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 UBKAKYd// 
 
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 i« Mi N^i 
 
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 '^i
 
 J ^ 
 
 EVIDENCE 
 
 TAKEN BEFORE 
 
 HER MAJESTY'S COMMISSIONERS 
 
 OF INQUIBT IHTO THE STATE OF THE 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS 
 
 IN IRELAND. 
 
 VOLUME 11. WITH INDEX. 
 
 ^SreBcnteU to bot!) H'ottecss of i3<irltamcnt ip ©ommana of ?Urr fHaJcafp. 
 
 ^ 
 
 ^ 
 
 ^ 
 
 DUBLIN: 
 IMIINTED BY ALEXANDER THOM AND SONS, 87, ABBEY-STREET, 
 
 FOR HER majesty's STATIONERY OFFICE. 
 
 1857.
 
 CONTENTS OF VOL. II. 
 
 List or Witnesses, .... 
 
 List or Public Coi'rts held by tde Commissiosehs, 
 
 EVXDEKCE, ...... 
 
 DoCtTSIENTS, ..... 
 
 Copies of Foums used in Inquiry, 
 
 Index to Evidence ; contadjing an Index to Schools, and to Evldence relating to the particular 
 School oe Ent)owment in each instance ; an Index to Subjects ; anIndexto Witnesses and the 
 Evidence of each, ........... 
 
 [Note. — The Figures of Reference in the Index refer, not to the Pages in I'oh. I. and IT. of Evi- 
 dence, but to the N^urnbers of the Questions and Answers.'} 
 
 Page 
 
 iii 
 
 iv 
 
 1 
 
 293 
 
 393 
 
 403
 
 [ iii ] 
 
 LIST OF WITNESSES.— VOL. II. 
 
 Dublin, Decemher Gtk, 1855. 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq., . 
 John Barlow, Esq., 
 
 Decemher 7th, 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq., . 
 John Barlow, Esq., 
 
 Decemher \1th 
 Thomas B. Stoney, Esq., 
 William Crozier, Esq., 
 ilr. Thomas Lowndes, 
 Mr. James Brangan, . 
 Mr. Patrick Early, 
 Mr. Peter Carey, 
 Mr. Robert M'Keriian. 
 James Peebles, Esq., . 
 Mr. Lawrence Cuffe, . 
 Mr. Thomas Moffett, . 
 Henry Baker, Esq., 
 Kev. Digges La Toucbc, 
 Kev. J. AV. HalloweU, 
 Rev. S. M. West, 
 
 December \Qth 
 ■Rev. Richard Ardill, . 
 Rev. John William Stubbs, 
 William Pidgeon, Esq., 
 
 Decemher \9th 
 Ecv. Richard Ardill, . 
 Rev. John William Stubbs, 
 AVilliam Pidgeon, Esq., 
 
 Decemher 20th 
 William Cotter Kyle, ll.d., 
 
 December '2\st 
 William Cotter Kyle, ll.d., 
 
 Decemher 22nd. 
 Rev. E. S. Abbott, 
 Rev. Hugh Hamilton, . 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 1855. 
 
 Page 
 1 
 
 
 17 
 
 
 18 
 
 
 18 
 
 
 30 
 
 
 32 
 
 
 33 
 
 34,39 
 
 42 
 
 36, 
 
 40 
 
 , 
 
 37 
 
 , 
 
 38 
 
 . 
 
 38 
 
 , 
 
 39 
 
 , 
 
 41 
 
 41. 
 
 42 
 
 , 
 
 42 
 
 • 
 
 42 
 
 52, 
 
 53 
 
 
 54 
 
 . 
 
 72 
 
 • 
 
 76 
 
 77, 
 
 82 
 
 77, 
 
 89 
 
 83, 
 
 92 
 
 93 
 
 110 
 
 117 
 119 
 
 April l\th, 1856. 
 
 Addison Hone, Esq., . 
 
 April I2th, 1856. 
 Addison Hone, Esq., . 
 John E. Hyiidman, Esq., 
 Francis William Brady, Esq., . 
 John Mallet, Esq., 
 William Cotter Kyle, li..d., . 
 Rev. Lewis A. Le Pan, 
 Mrs. Margaret Jane Star, 
 
 May Uth, 1856. 
 John Barlow, Esq., 
 
 May \5th, 1856. 
 John Barlow, Esq., 
 Edward Berwick, Esq., 
 Professor William Nesbitt, 
 Hercules MacDonuell, Esq., . 
 
 May 3\st, 1856. 
 Rev. John William Stubbs, 
 William Pidgeon, Esq., 
 Rev. Richard Ardill, . 
 
 November \Oth, 1856. 
 Richard Davis Webb, Esq., . 
 Robert Murray, Esq., . 
 Alexander Thorn, Esq., 
 Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., 
 AVilliara Cotter Kyle, ll.d., . 
 Rev. Hugh Hamilton, 
 
 November Uth, 1856. 
 WiUiam Cotter Kyle, ll.d., . 
 William Wann, Esq., . 
 
 November \Qth, 1856. 
 William Cotter Kyle, ll.d., . 
 Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq., . 
 Rev. Hugh Hamilton, 
 John Barlow, Esq., 
 
 
 
 raga 
 140 
 
 
 159, 
 
 168 
 
 
 162, 
 
 171 
 
 166 
 
 169, 
 
 172 
 
 169 
 
 172. 
 
 177 
 
 
 172, 
 
 179 
 
 
 174, 
 
 178 
 
 
 178, 
 
 179 
 
 . 180 
 
 . 202 
 
 . 218 
 
 . 220 
 
 . 223 
 
 232, 233 
 
 232, 247 
 
 233, 248 
 
 . 249 
 . 250 
 . 252 
 254, 263 
 . 263 
 . 266 
 
 . 268 
 . 271 
 
 . 277 
 278, 283 
 . 283 
 . 288 
 . 289 
 
 LIST OF WITNESSES, ALPHABETICALLY ARRANGED. 
 
 Abbott, Rev. E. S., . 
 Ardill, Rev. Richard, . 
 Baker, Henry, Esq., . 
 Barlow, John, Esq., 
 Berwick, Edward, Esq., 
 Brady, Francis William, Esq. 
 Br.angan, Mr. James, . 
 Carey, Mr. Peter, 
 Crozier, William, Esq., 
 Cuffe, Mr. L.awrence, . 
 Early, Mr. Patrick, . 
 Fetherston, Godfrey, Esq., 
 H.alloweU, Rev. J.'w., 
 H.amilton, Rev. Hugh, 
 Hone, Addison, Esq., . 
 Hyndman, John E., Esq., 
 Kyle, Wm. Cotter, i.l.d., 93,1 
 La Touche, Rev. Digges, 
 
 Page 
 
 . 117 
 
 54, 77, 82, 233, 248 
 
 41, 42 
 
 17, 18, 180, 202, 289 
 
 . 218 
 
 166, 169, 172 
 
 34, 39, 42 
 
 . 37 
 
 . 32 
 
 . 39 
 
 36, 40 
 
 254, 263, 278, 283 
 
 . 42 
 
 119, 266, ;iS8 
 
 1^0, 159, 163 
 
 162, 171 
 
 10,172,179,263,268,277 
 
 . 42 
 
 Le Pan, Rev. Lewis A., 
 Lowndes, Mr. Thomas, 
 MacDonncU, Hercules, Esq., 
 M'Keman, Mr. Robert, 
 Mallet, John, Esq., 
 Moffett, Mr. Thomas, . 
 Murray, Robert, Esq., 
 Nesbitt, Professor William, 
 Peebles, James, Esq., . 
 Pidgeon, William, Esq., 
 Star, Mrs. Marg.aret Jane, 
 iStoney, Thomas B., Esq., 
 Stubbs, Rev. John William, 
 Thorn, Alexander, Esq., 
 Thorp, Eustace, Esq., 
 AVanu, Willi.im, Esq., 
 Webb, Richard Davis, Esq., 
 West, Rev. S. M., . 
 
 76, 83 
 
 Page 
 174, 178 
 . 33 
 . 223 
 . 38 
 169, 172, 177 
 . 41 
 . 250 
 . 220 
 . 38 
 , 92, 232, 247 
 178, 179 
 . 30 
 77, 89, 232, 233 
 . 252 
 1, 18, 283 
 . 271 
 . 249 
 52,53 
 
 825GG2
 
 [ iv ] 
 
 PUELIC COURTS HELD BY THE COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 I PoBLic Courts held for Inquiries as to Schools and Endowments in each County, 
 
 arranged alphabetically according to Counties, with date and place of holding each Court. 
 
 
 
 
 References. 
 
 
 Town 
 
 at which Public Court 
 
 -was held. 
 
 Dates 
 of Public Courts. 
 
 
 COINTV. 
 
 Vol. and No. of 
 
 
 
 
 Page. Question 
 
 Antrim, . . . . • 
 
 Belfast. 
 
 8 October, 1855, . 
 
 1.532 
 
 10300 
 
 Armagh, ..... 
 
 Armagh, 
 
 2 October, 1855, 
 
 I. 459 
 
 9306 
 
 Carlow, 
 
 Carlow 
 
 14 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 1 1 
 
 Cavan, 
 
 Cavan, 
 
 26 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 380 
 
 7786 
 
 Clare 
 
 Ennis, ..... 
 
 4 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 177 
 
 3810 
 
 Cork, 
 
 Cork, 
 
 24 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 66 
 
 1140 
 
 
 
 25 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 94 
 
 1694 
 
 
 Midleton, .... 
 
 13 December, 1855, . 
 
 I. 914 
 
 17601 
 
 
 
 14 December, 1855, . 
 
 I. 969 
 
 18697 
 
 Donegal, ..... 
 
 Liiford, 
 
 12 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 594 
 
 11103 
 
 Down, ..... 
 
 Downpatrick, .... 
 
 5 October, 1855, . 
 
 1. 506 
 
 9699 
 
 
 (Liquiry continued in Dublin,) 
 
 17 December, 1855, . 
 
 n. 52 
 
 20305 
 
 Dublin, see below. 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 Fermanagh, .... 
 
 Enniskillen, .... 
 
 15 October, 1835, . 
 
 1.650 
 
 11880 
 
 Galway, 
 
 Galway 
 
 17 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 264 
 
 5405 
 
 
 (Liquiry continued in Dublin), 
 
 17 December, 1855, . 
 
 II. 42 
 
 20110 
 
 
 :, 
 
 15 May, 1856, . 
 
 11.218 
 
 23120 
 
 Kerry, . . . . • 
 
 Tralee, 
 
 .30 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 117 
 
 2319 
 
 Kildare, 
 
 Naas, 
 
 30 October, 1855, 
 
 1.746 
 
 13789 
 
 Kilkenny, 
 
 Kilkenny 
 
 15 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 6 
 
 84 
 
 King's, 
 
 Tullamore, .... 
 
 8 September, 1855, . 
 
 1.252 
 
 5228 
 
 Leitrim, 
 
 Carrick-on-Shannon, 
 
 22 September, 1855, . 
 
 1.327 
 
 6804 
 
 Limerick, 
 
 Limerick, .... 
 
 1 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 122 
 
 2397 
 
 
 
 3 September, 1 855, . 
 
 I. 152 
 
 3208 
 
 
 
 5 September, 1855, . 
 
 1. 201 
 
 4146 
 
 Londonderry, .... 
 
 Londonderry, .... 
 
 11 October, 1855, 
 
 I. .565 
 
 10556 
 
 Longford, 
 
 Longford, .... 
 
 25 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 367 
 
 7460 
 
 liOuth, 
 
 Dundalk, . . . . 
 
 17 October, 1855, 
 
 I. 676 
 
 12232 
 
 Mayo, 
 
 Castlebar, .... 
 
 19 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 294 
 
 6075 
 
 Jleath, 
 
 Navan 
 
 19 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 687 
 
 12409 
 
 Monaghan 
 
 Monaghan, .... 
 
 28 September, 1855, . 
 
 1.412 
 
 8276 
 
 
 
 29 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 442 
 
 8917 
 
 Queen's, 
 
 Maiyborough, .... 
 
 7 September, 1855, . 
 
 I. 223 
 
 4736 
 
 Roscommon 
 
 Roscommon, .... 
 
 24 September, 1855, . 
 
 1.340 
 
 7007 
 
 Sligo, 
 
 Sligo 
 
 21 September, 1855, . 
 
 1.306 
 
 6305 
 
 Tipperar)' 
 
 Clonmel, .... 
 
 21 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 40 
 
 654 
 
 Tyrone 
 
 Omagh, 
 
 12 October, 1855, . 
 
 1.617 
 
 11452 
 
 Waterford 
 
 Waterford, .... 
 
 16 Augiist, 1855, 
 
 I. 10 
 
 152 
 
 
 
 17 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 25 
 
 383 
 
 
 
 20 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 33 
 
 540 
 
 
 
 11 December, 1855, . 
 
 I. 861 
 
 17138 
 
 Wcstmeath, .... 
 
 MuUingar, .... 
 
 26 October, 1855, 
 
 I. 713 
 
 13089 
 
 Wexford, 
 
 Wexford, .... 
 
 18 August, 1855, 
 
 I. 28 
 
 421 
 
 Wicklow 
 
 Wicklow, .... 
 
 29 October, 1855, 
 
 I. 738 13676 
 
 II Public Courts held in Dublin for Inquiries as to Schools and Endowments in the 
 
 County of Dublin, and throughout Ireland generally. 
 
 Borough School of Swords, 
 
 11 „ ........ 
 
 „ „ Jvc, ....... 
 
 ,, „ o:C., . . . ^. . . - 
 
 Governors of the Schools founded by Er.asmus Smitli, Esq., . 
 
 11 11 11 • . • 
 
 Incorporated Society for promoting English I'rotcstant Schools m 
 
 Ireland, &c., &c., ......... 
 
 Incorporated .Society, &c., 
 
 Incoqiorated .Society, ......... 
 
 Comiiiissioners of Education in Ireland, (Clare-street), . 
 -, 11 11 11 . . . 
 
 (jflvemorg of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., &c., 
 
 Blue Coat Ilo.spital, Dublin, 
 
 11 11 ....... 
 
 Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., . 
 
 11 1, ,1 &c.. 
 
 Incorporated Society, 
 
 Ojrauiis.iioiiers of Education in Ireland, (Clarc-strcet), &c., . 
 
 11 11 11 • • 
 
 Governors of the Schools foundo<l by Er.asmiis Smith, Esq., &c., . 
 
 22 October, 1855, 
 25 October, 1855, 
 
 1 November, 1855, 
 
 2 November, 1855, 
 
 6 December, 1855, 
 
 7 December, 1855, 
 
 17 December, 1855, 
 
 18 December, 1855, 
 
 19 December, 1855, 
 
 20 December, 1855, 
 
 21 December, 1855, 
 
 22 December, 1855, 
 
 11 A|)ril, 1850, 
 
 12 April, 1856, 
 
 14 May, 1856, 
 
 15 May, I85(i, , 
 31 May, 1856, . 
 
 1 November, 1 850, 
 
 11 November, 1856, 
 19 November, 1856, 
 
 1.712 
 I. 759 
 I. 794 
 I. 831 
 II. 1 
 It. 18 
 
 11. 30 
 II. 54 
 II. 77 
 II. 93 
 II. 110 
 If. 119 
 II. 138 
 II. 159 
 II. 180 
 11. 202 
 II. 228 
 II. 253 
 II. 208 
 II. 277 
 
 13088 
 14018 
 14828 
 15911 
 19062 
 19567 
 
 19707 
 20314 
 20702 
 21078 
 21345 
 21473 
 21902 
 22348 
 22094 
 22945 
 23207 
 23549 
 23794 
 23987
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 MTNU'J'ES OF EYIDENOE. 
 
 VOLUME II. 
 
 Dublin, Gth Dkcembek, 1855. Dudun. 
 
 Picxent : — Marquess of Kildakk, Cliainiian ; Ilev- Dr. Gkaves, Dr. Andrews, Mr- 
 Stephens, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The GovEENOiis of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. riw Uovemnrit of 
 
 „ , rni T-- T ■ 1 llie Schooh fuuHtlcdbii 
 
 Jiiustace Ihorj), Esq., sworn and examined. Erasmus Smith, Es^. 
 
 190(12. Chairman.— SNhfii office do you hold ?— I am assistant registrar to the Governors '''"•'"'<''-' '''''°T> ^9- 
 of the Erasmus Smith's Schools. 
 
 lOdC.S. Who is tlie re,L,'istrar ? — The Picv. Hugh Hamilton. Registrar and inspector are 
 the names of his offices, both of whicli are united 
 
 100()4. "When were you appointed".' — September, isr»0. 
 
 19005. Did you hold any office under the Board before you were appointed assistant 
 registrar ? — No, my Lord ; but it is necessary I should explain that answer. I had been 
 assistant to the former registrar, but unconnected with the Governors ; he paid me, and 
 not the (iiivernors. 
 
 19001!. What was the name of the former registrar? — The Rev. Francis Blake 
 Woodward. 
 
 19007. What arc the duties of the office you hold? — Vanous, my Lord — answeriu'-' 
 correspondence, remitting money, paying salaries, writing the proceedings, attending 
 Boards, i-eceiving their instructions, and acting upon those instructions, and various other 
 duties. Every way in which I can be useful to the Governors it is my duty to be so. 
 
 10088. Are there any rules and rcg\ilAtions for the administration of the aff^iirs of the 
 Board ? — None, except what may be collected from the Bunrd proceedings. If I under- 
 stand your question, there is no set of rules laid down — th;it is, in one form ; but thev are 
 to be found in the proceedings ivcordcd in tlie books, of which the Commissioners have 
 possession. 
 
 19009. Have they ever been collected into one book? — I believe they have.' I met 
 some tune ago with a collected form while searching over old papers for the purposes of 
 this Commission ; but I would not like to put it forward, unless I was given time to sec in 
 what respect it was modified, reduced, or changed. 
 
 19070. Plave there been any speciiic rules laid down for your guidance, in the discharcfe 
 of your duties ? — No, my Lord ; but I should add to that answer that the Govei-nors had 
 a certain experience of me through the former registrar, which I believe was the reason of 
 my appointment. 
 
 19071. Are there any specific rules laid down for the guidance of the registrar in the 
 discharge of his duties? — Not so mucli regarding his duties as registrar, as his duties as 
 inspector. He had always before him the practice of liis predecessor, and the instructions 
 of the Board, 'lliere are no specific rules that I am aware of. 
 
 19072. Mr. StepJic'Ds. — Are there any specific rules laid down for the guidance of the 
 inspector in his duties ? — Yes. 
 
 19073. Where ai-e they to be found ? — In many of the minute books. 
 19071. Where are they? — -You have them. 
 
 1907 5. Chairman. — When enumerating your duties, you did not say wliether it formed 
 part of those duties to kee]> the accounts of the Board ? — I now say it does, mv Lord. 
 
 1907 6. Mr. Stephens. — To what minute book do you refer? — Aboiit the year 1818; 
 but if you allow me to look over the minute book, as I have it indexed, I will be able to 
 tell you. In the minute book of the 1 3th of I'ebruary, 1 845, will be found the rules for the 
 inspector. 
 
 19077. Is that the minute book of the Governors, or of the standing committee ? — C'f 
 the standing committee. 
 
 19078. Does it ajjpear whether tliese rules of the standing committee were subsequently 
 approved of by the Governors ; and if so, refer me to the book in which it so appears? — I 
 think it does not so appear, as the standing committee have made these rules themselves; 
 I will make a search, of course, but I have little doubt on my mind th;it is the case. 
 
 19079. Chairman. — What security did you give on your appointment? — None, my Lord. 
 Mr. Stepliens, may I give you another date, with regard to the rules of the standing com- 
 mittee as to the inspector's duties? 
 
 19080. Mr. Step/iens. — As many as vou like. — ^December 7th, 1846. 
 
 Vol. II. * ' B
 
 2 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 lU'ni,i.N. 1908L Is there an index to that hook? — A ver.y good one, made by myself, and whicli 
 
 you will find correct. 
 
 I'/'^e Governors of " jgoQ^ Is there any printed form for the inspection of the schools ? — There is; and I 
 '£ra^l.km!"t'S f^^'nished Dr. Hancock with those forms when I made the returns, in a h.jdy. i have 
 Eustace Thorp! Esq! them all here now, filled up by the inspector— -210 in nuniber. 
 
 1908:3. I believe you have said that there are no specific rules or regulations fin- the 
 guidance of the registrar or assistant registrar ? — None in a collected form. 
 
 19084. Can you give me references to all the rules that apply to the guidance of the 
 registrar, or assistant registrar, in the execution of the duties of their respective offices ? — 
 I can speak with regard to myself — as I told the Chairman, I partly knew my duties ; and, 
 therefore, I required but little instructions, except those instructions which are upon the 
 face of the minutes. 
 
 19085. Where are the rules to be found? — They are to be found in almost all the 
 minutes which you have ; and for that matter, for the carrying out of these minutes, my 
 instructions are written in the books. 
 
 1908G. Dr. yliidrews. — You are not answering tlie question put to you — of course, every 
 registrar's assistant has to record the minutes, and carry them out ; but were there any 
 rules for the government of your conduct ? — None. 
 
 19087. You said none in a collected form; were there any in any other form ? — No, 
 because it was an original office. 
 
 19088. Then, why do you say " none " in a collected form, if it was a new oftice, and 
 there were none for the office at all '?— I think I coupled tliat answer with the statement 
 respecting the registrar, and not the assistant registrar, li' I did, I should have separated 
 them in my answer. 
 
 19089. Well, now, having separated your answer, you say there are none for him, in a 
 collected form — were there any for him in a disi)ersed or uncollected form ? — Yes. 
 
 19090. Mr. Slcjiltem. — Were they written ? — If you wish I will go on, and complete my 
 answer. The books of the former registrar were before him ; what he did, and was in the 
 habit of doing, were there. Mr. Hamilton learned his duties from the books and from me ; 
 and had the Governors to consult every day that thej^ met, with regard to those duties ; 
 ho does consult them, and they give him his instructions. 
 
 19091. Then he ascertainecl his duties in the best manner he could? — I will not say 
 yes to that question, because the question gives me to understand that he should grope thent 
 out; I will not say that. 
 
 19092. In what way was he to ascertain his duties? — He used to apply to me in many 
 instances, being several years assistant to the former registrar. 
 
 rjOUy. And how did you ascertain them? — By acting under the former registrar, and 
 going through these duties. 
 
 ly()94. The knowledge came down to you bj' tradition? — It is more than tradition. 
 
 19095. That is the effect of your answer? — I am sorry it has that cS'ect — I do not like 
 it to have that effect. If you would show me in the books any where a difficulty arose 
 with tlie registrar, in carrying out his business 
 
 19091). Dr. Anilrcwf!. — Is that a proper mode of answering the question? — lam answering 
 the question. 
 
 19097. We desire to get information as to the rcgistr.ir's duties, and as to his mode of 
 carrying them out. Did you supply tliut by your observation ? — I have said nothing 
 intentionally to offend. 
 
 1909H. Mr. S/ephcns. — Are there any lules or regulations for the guidance of your 
 conduct, as assistant registrar, in writing ? — None. 
 
 19099. Are there any rules or regulations for the guidance of the conduct of the 
 n^gistrar, in writing ? — I will not say that there are not, because I think they might be found. 
 
 19100. Are there any, to the best of your knowledge and belief?— I think thei'e are; 
 but I again say with regard to this abstract which you desired me to bring, the rules it 
 contains may not be applicable to the present day. I believe that in the books will 
 be fiund the duties of the registrar laid down; although I would not say positively, at 
 tliis moment, I believe rules for his government do exist. 
 
 191(11. Tlmn. as assistant registrar, you do not conceive it to be your duty to go through 
 the books, and collect all tlie rules and regulations, and put them in a collected form? — 
 No ; but 1 shall search the minutes if you wish mc to do so. 
 
 19102. Chairman. — What is your salary? — One hundred and twenty-five pounds at 
 present. 
 
 ]91(l-'i. Has the amount always been the same? — No, my Lord ; when I was appointed 
 it was £lOO a-year. The Governors raised it, without any application of mine, to i'125, 
 from tlie 1st of November, 185 1. 
 
 19101. Mr. S/i'/i/icfiK. — Will yon refer to the niinute increasing your salary from £ 100 
 to £125 ? — I have great pleasure in doing so. 
 
 19105, What is the date ?— The 17th Of January, 1855:— "The Board advanced Mr. 
 Thorp's salary to .£l25 per annum, considering that his services and great attention to 
 flic duties of his olfice fully entitled liiiu tlioreto." 
 
 191 (ic. Clidirhuin — Yon have stated it is your duty to keep tlie accounts of the 
 ]5oard ? — J did, my Jjord. 
 
 19107. I'Vom what period in IHK! was the system of double entry commenced? — They 
 conuncnced the system wliich you have tliere in tlic books before you. 
 
 191 OH. Dr. Aiidrrwu. — Do you understand what keeping books by double entry means? — 
 I do not distinctly understand.
 
 EVIDENCE. 3 
 
 ■ IDIO'J. l>o j-ou uiulerstiind atiill? — 1 do not uuclcrstaud distinctly wiiat is iiicaiit by DuitLitt. 
 
 double entry. ^_ 
 
 I'.UIO. Mi: Sfcp/ir//.s. — Do you uiiderstimd distinctly or indistinctly what is meant by ,i,fS%fJ"h/hur!il"ill>'/ 
 
 double entry ? No. JCm^mm Smith, Esq. 
 
 I'Jlll. When did you first receive a salary from the Board?' — l''rom September, Ih.jO. Ensiace Tliorp, Ksq. 
 Von will find it recorded in the books. 
 
 I'Jll'-i. I sec iin entry in the cash book, under the date of December :il, 1817: — 
 " Paid Eustace Thorp three months' salary, io date, ,4'17 10s." — The former registrar, 
 ]\Ir. Woodward, had been in delicate health from that time ; and when he made the last 
 .■qiplication for leave of absence, in consequence of his delicacy, the Board said, " Your 
 salary shall be so and so ; we will pay you, or we will pay whatever m,ay be the expense 
 of the oflice; so that you shall not forfeit any thinj,' ; " and, therefore, they paid me that 
 sum of ninney. I thiidc they paid me a second sum of money. 
 
 1911:!. Rev. Dr. Grairs. — Were youthen book-keeper? — I was then Mr. Wcjod ward's clerk. 
 
 19111. Were you book-keeper? — Oh, yes; I kept his books for him. 
 
 1911.''). Did yon at that time keep the ledger 1 hold in my hand? — If I saw my own 
 luindwritinL,' I could tell. I know there was a book-keeper employed at the time. I do 
 not thiidv I did keep it ; but I can answer in a moment. 
 
 19110. Mr. S/c/i/tfus. — Do you not know that there was a Board order of 21st Sep- 
 tember, IB 17, appropriating to you .-£70 per annum? — I do not think my name is men- 
 tioned in it. 
 
 19117. Do you not know that there was an order of the Board of the 21st of September, 
 1*^17, appropriating i'70 per annum to you for your salaiy? — To Mr. Woodward's 
 clerk. 
 
 19118. Do not mind any distinction between Mr. Woodward's clerk and yourself. I 
 want you to answer me the question whether you do not know that there was a Board 
 order of 2Ist of September, liSi7, appropriating .£70 per annum to you? — There is not. 
 Am I right':* If not, I will correct mj'self if you give me the book. 
 
 19119. There is the book '?— To his clerk. 
 
 19120. Who was Mr. Woodward's clerk ? — I was. 
 
 19121. Dr. Andrcus. — Do you mean to say there was another book-keeper at the time 
 you said you kept the books ? — This is the entry in the registry book : — " Mr. Fetherstone 
 reported that he had read the foregoing resolutions to Mr. Woodward, who had requested 
 him to convoy to the Board his gi'atitude for their kindness manifested towards liim ; that 
 the iiayments made by him are to his clerk ;£70; to the book-keeper, £2Q; and to the 
 messenger, ,£.'^iO a-j'ear." I am not the book-keeper there referred to. 
 
 19122. Who was that book-keeper? — The man who wrote the first part of this book. 
 
 19123. Do you remember his name ? — Hughes. 
 
 19121. How long did Hughes continue book-keeper? — About five year.s. 
 
 19125. From what period to what period? — From about 184.3 to l^JO ; but I am not 
 able to answer positivelj'. 
 
 1912(i. Wliat were your duties during the time he was book-keeper ? — Do you mean at 
 that jiarticular time '? 
 
 19127. At the time you were receiving the salary as Mr. Woodward's clerk? — The 
 I'egistrar's duties, so far as I could do them ; exactly the same duties which he would have 
 done if lie were at home. 
 
 19128. Then, had you the superintendence of the book-keeper? — No, I do not think I 
 had. I could not call it superintendence. 
 
 19129. Who had the superintendence of the book-keeper at that time, or was he quite 
 independent ?— WeU, I think he was ; except so far as any assistance I could give him in 
 supplying him with materials. 
 
 19180. Under whom did he act and take directions"? — He had been employed before 
 that time by Mr. Woodward ; and, therefore, in Mr. Woodward's absence he did not 
 requii'e any fi'esh instructions, as he received them at the commencement. 
 
 191-'51. Yes; but, as book-keeper, under whose directions did he act, as to the current 
 transactions which he recorded in the hooks ? — You know, sir, the cash-book was kept 
 by me — the current cash-book — was kept by mc, and from that he took his materials 
 principally, and from the bank-book. 
 
 19132. Was there at that time any journal kept ? — Notliing more than those books you 
 have before you, the cash-book, kc. 
 
 19133. Then, if there is not a journal or waste book amongst those books, there was 
 not one kept? — There was a blotter and memorandum book. 
 
 1913-1. Is that amongst the books ?— It is. 
 
 1913-"). Mr. Slcj'fn'iix. — Did you nut make up all your books from your bank-book?^ 
 Oh, no. 
 
 1913(5. You did not? — You would not do it. 
 
 19137. I am not asking you what I should do, but asking what you have done? — If you 
 show me the ciish-book, I will show you what I did. [Book handed to witness]. 
 
 19138. Did you make up your accounts from the cash-book and bank-book combined? — 
 Yes. 
 
 19139. Are those the exclusive sources from which you made up your books? — Oh, no. 
 
 19140. Enumerate all the otlier sources, and give me any explanation j'ou think proper 
 afterwards ? — The agent's rentals, and accounts, the bank pass-book, the registrar's cash- 
 book, the blocks of cheques, and the bank cheque-book. 
 
 Vol. II. B 2
 
 4 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBLis. 1914L Ai"e those the exchisive sources fioin which you have made up your hooks? — If, 
 
 for instance, Mr. Fethcrstone, the solicitor 
 
 iUeSchooUioniiMhy 1914-^. Will you auswer my question, and then give me any explanation you think 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. proper ? If j'ou waut me to say that these are the exclusive sources, I will not say so, 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq. hecause I am going to give you other sources. 
 
 19143. Give them to me? — And in case the land-agent lodges monej' to the Governors' 
 credit, he reports to the Governors ; and that is another source. 
 
 19144. Give me another, if you have one? — If you give me the book, it woidd remmd 
 me much better, fori consider the receipts for money another source. 
 
 19145. "What book is that you have before you ■.' — The ledger. 
 
 1914(5. What infonnation ought the ledger to contain ? — It ought to contain a classifi- 
 eation of the cash-book; the account with the Bank of Ireland, and an account of stock. 
 
 19147. Rev. Dr. Gnifc-i. — -Docs that mean money invested in Government stock; because 
 that is not the meaning of a stock account in book-keeping? 
 
 ] ill ]H. ]\Ir. Stephens. — What do you mean when you say liiat the ledger ought to contain 
 an account of stock ? — It ought to have in it an account of the stock. 
 
 li)149. Rev. Dr. Grare.t. — What stock '! — Stock in the funds. 
 
 19150. Mr. ,SVr/;/!e«.v.— What else ought the ledger to contain? — It contains (and I find 
 it in the end of the ledger in a way very satisfactory) an account of the moneys which 
 appear from time to time in the cash-book, as all moneys passing through the hands of the 
 registrar do, all grants made towards building schools ; but that is merely i'or the sake of 
 having them in one book. 
 
 IULjI. For what purpose are the buikling fund grants inserted '? — For the purpose of 
 reference hereafter. 
 
 19152. Are they inserted for the purpose of reference, and not for the purpose of 
 account ? — They are accounted for iu another way altogether. 
 
 1915.';{. What else does the ledger contain? — I think I have mentioned all. In the 
 classification I mean to include all the heads which are to be found in the cash-book. 
 The expenses of each school yon will tind put down under a distinct head in this book. 
 
 19154. It seems, then, that the h^dgcr contains a ("lassilication of the cash-book; an 
 account with the Bank of Ireland; an account of stock and money in the funds ; and the 
 building fund grants, for the purpose of reference, but not for account ? — If you will add, 
 the classification is not for account, if you are to make a distinction. 
 
 19155. Not for account? — Not for account. I mean that the classification with regard 
 to each school is not for the purpose of account. 
 
 1915(1. Is every head posted from the cash-book? — Yes, but not down to the present 
 date. 
 
 19157. Is every head in the cash-book in the ledger ? — Not at present. 
 
 19158. AVhy ? — Because there was not time to write them up. 
 
 19159. Is every head in the cash-book entered in the ledger ? — No. 
 
 19100. From what date to what date is every head in the cash-book entered in the 
 ledger? — I have written this ledger, I iind, up to ^lay, 1854; and then, from my 
 memory 
 
 lUlOl. I am asking you to si5cak from the ledger ? — I will speak from the ledger. 
 
 19162. From wdiat date to what date is every head in the cash-book entered in the 
 ledger? — From the 1st of November, 1813, up to May 18, 1854, generally. 
 
 19103. Ijp to May, 1854, generally. What do you mean by "generally," speaking of 
 the ledger?- Because there are two or three accounts which could not be Mritten up 
 without consideration ; but, with these exceptions 
 
 19104. What are "these exceptions?" — There is one of them, the Calverstown account. 
 
 19105. If I un<lerstand you aright, Mr. Thorp, from 181.3 to ]K5i, the accounts are 
 made up in the ledger, with three exceptions ? — I did not si)ccity these exceptions. I 
 gave you one — Calverstown. 
 
 19100. Give me all the excejitions ? — First, there is the Calverstown account, the law 
 .agent's, and the registrar's. 
 
 191()7. What do you mean by "the registrar's?" — Tlu' late registrar's, present registrar 
 and inspector's. 
 
 i91(i8. You have given three exceptions? — .\nd the account of stock. 
 
 19109. Any other exception '? — I do not see any other. 
 
 19170. Will you turn to the Calverstowji trust fund account? — I have it. 
 
 191(1. "What does that accomit show u])(jn the face of it '? — Shall I commence with it ? 
 
 l'.)17;2. 'Jell me what it shows? — It shows the anumnt of stock handed over to the 
 Governors when they took charge of this scIkjoI ; and then it shows the inccMue and 
 expenditure upon accoinit of this school separatcdy. 1 nu'an sciiarately from the other 
 schools. 
 
 19173. To what date does it shov." the funded property, and the divideiuls arising from 
 such property? — To April, 1850. 
 
 11)1? 1. Wiiy was it not kept down tn the iiresenttime ? — Because there was an arrange- 
 ment of this kind made 
 
 19175. Is that arrangement in writing? — There is an order for it. 
 
 J9170. Refer mo to it?-— Here it is, sir. 2nd February, 1851. 
 
 i;)177. Who was present''' — The Yen. Archdeacon of Glendalough, Theophilus .Jones, 
 Esq., Rev. W. Chichester, the lion, and Very Rev. the Dean of St. Patrick's, the Right 
 Hon. the Recorder, the Ven. the Archdeacon of Cashel. — " ]\lr. Thorp submitted an
 
 EVIDENCE. 5 
 
 account of tlie Calverstown scliool fund, from tlie year 1838 (when it was placod under Dibmn. 
 
 the nianagonient of the Governors), up to tlic [iresent time; l)y which it apjieai-.s tliat ('~ruors nl 
 
 there is now to the credit of the school a sum of about £l,17'J, whicli inchides the sum of ,i,, ^j^^XjounJaihii 
 £■151 17«. 7cZ. lianchid over to the Governors in 1838. EnKnus Smith, AV/. 
 
 " Ordered — That £l,000 cash, or as much exceeding it as shall purchase an even sum, Kust.ii.'« Tlioq., K«(i. 
 say £1,100 stock, he invested in 3 per cent, consols, in the name of the Governors, to 
 the credit of this fund. Draft No. S2,l:ir> accordingly drawn for £l,()00 (one thousand)." 
 
 1017H. Js that account in the ledger ? — No. 
 
 10179. Why is it not entered in tin? ledg-r ? — liecause I had not time to write it. 
 
 101 HO. Where is it 7 — I have it in tlie ollicc. 
 
 19181. In what book ? — It is not in a book. I submitted it in sheets. It re(|nired some 
 care, and therefore I would not transcribe it without consideration. 
 
 191S'2. Why was not the account kept from 1850 to 1854? — Because (I am now speak- 
 ing with regard to this stock) that original sum of ,i^l5] 17.v. 7d., or whatever' stock that 
 imrchased, was handed over; and tlu; Governors always had, in their own name, stand- 
 ing, a sum over and above tliat, and Jiad, at two diti'ercnt dates, in the iniiiginary pur<-!iase 
 of stock 
 
 1918.'5. Imaginary purchase of stock ? • I will explain that to you aftei-. Tliis ("alvci-s- 
 town school fund commenced with .ij451 17.v. 'id., cash, v.hich was handed over to the 
 (rovernors, and that purchased iJ45:i lO.v. bd., stock. There never was that stock; that 
 is, it was never kept distinct from the (iovernors' stock until a certain time; but it would 
 not be doing justice to this particular fund to have a surplus acc;unu]ating, and not to 
 give the benefit of that accumulation, as if it were in stock; and, consequently, I liave, at 
 certain dates, when that surplus accumulated to a couj^le of hundred pounds, supposed a 
 certain portion of stock in the Governors' name belonged to this fund ; and I have given 
 credit to this particular school for that until a certain period, when the accumulation 
 reached this large sum of .£1,100, which I have read to you. I found, that having given 
 credit for this stock, as if purchased, and actually in existence, that a considerable surplus 
 was due to tiie Calverstown school. This arrested the Governors' attention, and then they 
 said it would be time now to make a distinct fund ; and, consequently, I applied the entire 
 surplus in that way, which amounted to about £1,179, and with that i;i,0()0 draft pur- 
 chased a distinct sum of £1,100, as is shown by the returns which I sent to the Commis- 
 sioners ; and from that time henceforth, this £ 151, wliich was merged in the common stock 
 of the Governors, became a distinct fund. 
 
 19181. It seems that you got the money in 1838, and then you made a distinct fund of 
 it in 1H51 ? — It was always a distinct fund. 
 
 19185. Is it not a fact that it was not a distinct fund anterior to 1854 ? — It is not. 
 
 191 8(1. Tell me why it is not? — I told you in the commencement. 
 
 191H7. Tell me again ? — On the 22nd of December, 18-38, the Governors of the Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools, as appears from these books, received £451 17.s. 7d., cash, which pur- 
 chased £153 10.S-. 5f/. stock; and then the fund received credit (that is, the Calverstown 
 school fund) for the dividends upon that stock, and, besides that, it received credit for tlie 
 dividends at various periods, as if the stock has been regularly purchased for that par- 
 ticular school ; and then, when it amounted to this sum which I have mentioned, the 
 (iovernors were advised to keep it altogether distinct, and, consequently, the stock was 
 purchased separately; and the fund now stands £1,100 stock, which belongs to this school, 
 and not to the Governors. 
 
 19188. Was any calculation made as to the precise sum whicli the Calverstown school 
 fund was entitled to at the time of that arrangement? — Yes. 
 
 19189. liefer me to the books showing tiie calculation? — I have not the calculation 
 with me; it is in the ofiice on the sheets which I referred to before ; but £1,17 9 was giv( n 
 credit for. 
 
 19190. Is that account in the ledger to which you have referred ? — What account? 
 
 19191. The Calverstown school account? — Oh, no. 
 
 19192. [Si-rrt'/an/. — Mr. Thorp has furnished an account of this Calverstown fund, by 
 which it appears that there is now to the credit of the school a sum of £ 1,17 9, which 
 includes a sum of £451 17.?. 7d., handed over to the Governors in 1838.] 
 
 19193. I perceive, at this meeting of the standing committee, the minute commences 
 with "]\rr. Thorpe submitted an account." Have you a copy of that account which you 
 then submitted to the Governors ? — I have it on sheets in the office. 
 
 19194. Will you be so kind as to send it to Dr. Hancock? — I will; but I want to give 
 you some explanation. You see that to transfer the stock from one property to another, 
 and make out that plan for the Governors, was not a thing that could be done in a hurry 
 — without consideration. 
 
 19195. Dr. A/idrcie\i.— But you can furnish the account which you laid before the com- 
 mittee. It requires no consideration to do tliat? — It does require consideration. 
 
 19190. The original document ought to be sent here. 
 
 19197. Rev. Dr. Grans. — There is another reason for having this original document, 
 because I see here mentioned a sum of alwitt £l,179. That is not specific, and, 
 therefore, there is the more reason for calling for the account which was submitted to the 
 Governors ? — And I will give it to you. 
 
 19198. [Sccrrtari/.— The account in the ledger commences 22nd of December, 1838; 
 and it was opened five years before any other account, except one. The account is carried 
 on down to August, 1851, on the debit side ; but on the credit it is only up to April, 1850 ;
 
 6 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcEiis-. ^^^^ there are two pencil entries in it of sums of £10 llv. Sd. and £15") lu*. lOkd. This 
 
 account lias not been balanced in any way since, and does not show the amount of stock. 
 
 The Governors r>f q^ the amount of Cash received since November l:^th, lsi3. So this account has been live 
 Erasmus Smuii '^Esn. ycf^'s in arrear on one side of the entries, and a full year in arrear on the other; and at 
 Eustace Tlioj-n', Esq. *^^ ^'^^"^ '■^^'^ account was submitted to the Board of Erasmus Smith, in 1851, the ledger 
 was four years in arrear.] 
 
 191it9. Mr. Stfphens. — Has Dr. Hancock made a correct representation of the account ? 
 — I think he has. 
 
 lO'^dO. State whether he has or has not ? — Perhaps I might be stating to you what is 
 not a fact. As I understood Dr. Hancock, he said this account was written up to August, 
 1854, on the outgoing side, and up to 1850 on the other. 
 
 lO'^Ol. Dr. Aiidrcirti. — Upon the I'eceipt side, you mean, it is written up to 1850? — Yes; 
 and that no balance has been struck since 18 li!. 
 
 19202. {Secretary. — In what year were the other accounts opened in the ledger? — 
 1«#3.] 
 
 1920-3. Jlr. Stepheim. — In the ledger which you have before you, in respect of this 
 Calverstown trust fund, is it or is it not a fact, that the credits ai-e upwards of five years 
 in aiTear, and the debits a yearin arrear ? — Yes. 
 
 19204. What is the reason for your not ha^ong balanced your accounts? — In that 
 matter of the stock we were speaking of? 
 
 19205. Why have you not balanced the accounts. How is it that you have allowed the 
 credits to be upwards of five years in arrear in your ledger ? — Because the credits rcquii'e 
 consideration, so as to show the increasing of that stock, and how the whole thing was 
 transferred, whereas there is no difficulty about the debits ; they are written plainly in the 
 cash-book, and require no consideration e:iccpt to enter them correctly. 
 
 19206. Dr. A//i/reirs. — Why was there no difficulty in keeping it up to 1850? — One 
 reason was that the stock was not changed from the original stock. 
 
 19207. You changed in 1854 ; but you kept the account on one side up to 1850 ; what 
 prevented j'ou keeping the account from 1850 to 1854, as well as you did from 1838 to 
 1850 ? — The only reason I can state is, that I intended from time to time to make this 
 account up to 1851, but a few circumstances occurred, in consequence of which I did not 
 bring it before the Governors ; and that is why I did not bring up these arrears ; however, 
 there is no difficulty about coming to a conclusion ; I can do it in two or three days, when 
 I can sit down for the purpose; because every thing relating to the account is in the cash- 
 book, and audited by the treasm'er. There is no bill paid, except that it is shown to be 
 right. 
 
 19208. Mr. Steplicnx. — The accounts are most irx-egulai-Iy kept ? — Very well. 
 
 Iil20'.l. Is it not so ? — They are not written up. 
 
 19210. Is not that irregularity/ — Oh, it does not mean that they are ii'regulai'ly 
 kept. They are not written up ; and only the way in which I was hurried the whole of this 
 year, they would not be in this state. 
 
 19211. Have not difficulties arisen in consequence of the Calverstown school estate 
 not having been kept as a separate account ? — Oh, it is kept. 
 
 19212. In a separate account? — Yes; with tlie exception of the way I told you respect- 
 ing the stock. 
 
 19213. With that exception? — Yes; it is kept, and has a distinct rental, and a distinct 
 account. 
 
 19214. But the stock-fund has not been kept in a separate account? — I told you so. 
 
 19215. Therefore, the account, as a whole, has not been kept separately? — I have 
 given my answer. I told you, as the fact is, that the account is keptseparatclj- — that the 
 rental is kept separately by the agent; and the account kept separately : the receipts kept 
 separately ; and for t!ie reasons I have stated, the Calverstown stock was with the Gover- 
 nors' stock. 
 
 19210. That being so, will you show me the agent's account, in the ledger, of the 
 Calverstown estate ? — Thei-c is no agent's account in the ledger. 
 
 10217. \_Sfcrelari/. — Here is the statement in the ledger : — " November 13, cash lodged 
 hy E. S. Hunt, Esq. (ageii(\ being balance on foot of account for half-year's rent, and 
 arrears of school estate, up to 1st May, Ik 13, £l I 12s. 2rf."] 
 
 19218. Now, is there any acc(nmt with Mr. Hunt, the agent, in that ledger ? — No. 
 
 19219. Or with Mr. Xearney?— No. 
 
 19220. Is there any account in the ledger, showing the rental of the Calverstown estate ? 
 — No. 
 
 19221. Or of any other estate?— No. 
 
 19222. Is there any accoiuit with any agent in tin; ledger? — No. 
 
 19223. Is there any account with the law agent ? — With regard to the agent, there is no 
 account, exce])t the bank aci'ount may be considered one, in which are his remittances, as 
 by his rental appears, l)nt there is no sei)arate account for a separate agent or agents • 
 
 19224. Is there any account showing what any agent received, and what he actually 
 remitted ? — Of what he actually remitted, but not of what he actually received, there 
 is. 
 
 19225. Is there any account showing at any one moment the balance due by the agents? 
 — No. 
 
 19220. Do the agents ever owe balances to the Board? — Indeed they do. 
 
 19227. Does it appear from your ledger that tliere were no agents' accounts ? — 1 said it
 
 EVIDENCE. ? 
 
 did; but you asked mo liad tlio ngents ever owed money to our oflice ; I s;iid thoy did; l)i ni.i.v. 
 
 hut on the other Inuid, at this moment the Governors owe upon tlie last rental, to Mr. 
 
 Kearney, he liaving remitted an ov(n- sum of between .f2f)0 un<l foOO . T'"' ^■"j-""'""] "■[. 
 
 •" *^ , 1 1 .1 XT till- Sr.luHihfouiiUi-a nil 
 
 ]i)2;>8. Does that appear h'om your ledger .■' — Mo. Krasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 l!)a'2fl. Why not ? — 1 cannot answer that. Eustaof Tborp, Esq. 
 
 19230. How much does Mr. Poe owe the Governors ? — There is no such person. 
 
 19231. Do you not know any thing about Mr. Poe ? — Oh, I had the pleasure of knowing 
 him. 
 
 19232. How much does he owe ? — Oh, his account has been paid. 
 
 19233. Where are his accounts? — They are in my oifice. 
 
 19231. Was there any deficiency in the accounts? — No ; he settled — the Governors are 
 •juite satisfied. 
 
 19235. Was there any deficiency ? — It is settled. 
 
 19236. Was there any deficiency before the account was settled? — I cannot answer for 
 liis account before it was settled. There may liave been deficiencies ; if the account was 
 wrong, or erroneous, tliere would be a deficiency one way or the other ; I speak of the 
 account settled witli the Governors, so far as I know. 
 
 19237. Where are those accounts ? — In tlie oHice. I tell you how they settled with iSIr. 
 Poe : he had a sum of £3,. 500, stock, lodged as a security with the Governors 
 
 19238. How much did the Governors deduct out of it for deficiencies? — For the 
 balance due by him, a sum of £2,000, or something of the kind, and returned him the 
 remainder. 
 
 19239. Did that balance ajipear in the led^^er at the time it was due? — No; I told you 
 that there was no separate account with the agents ; but the stock appears. 
 
 19210. Do you remember Mr. Galway, as agent?— Yes. 
 
 192tl. Was there any deficiency in his accounts ? — He has settled his accounts. 
 
 19212. Before he settled, what was the deficiency ? — There was a disputed deficiency. 
 We said one thing — he said another. 
 
 192t3. Who was right? — We tried it by a suit against him ; and we were right, e.Kcept 
 there might have been some allowances made ; but we were right in principle ; and we 
 reeoveixd our money. 
 
 19211. What was the amount? — Before the suit was tried I reasoned with him on his 
 accounts, and he paid in a sum of £l30 or £150 ; then, he paid after the action a sum of 
 £lG7, I think. 
 
 192Jr). Was there any account opened with Mr. Galway in the ledger? — Never, for any 
 agent, in this ledger. 
 
 19246. How do the agents remit their money to the Governors now; do they pay it 
 into the bank ? — The practice of Mr. Hunt, the agent of the western estates, is to lodge 
 in the branch bank in the country, and the practice of Mr. Kearney 
 
 19247. To whose credit? — The credit of the Governors. 
 
 19248. Am I to understand that that practice is in strict accordance with the rule of 
 the Board ? — I believe it is. 
 
 19249. Do you not know it ns a fact? — I am now trying to refresh my memory ; 1 
 think I do recollect instructions to that cti'ect. 
 
 19250. [Secretur;/. — The following is the minute of the 27th of November, 1830 : — 
 " That the agents do lodge in the Bank of Ireland, to the credit of the Governors, the 
 amount of receipts received by them from time to time ; and that whenever they do make 
 lodgments they do notify same to the registrar, stating the amount.] 
 
 19251. Has that minute been rescinded or qualified by any subsequent minute? — I 
 am not aware of its having been qualified in any way. 
 
 19252. Then, when Mr. Hunt paid his money into the branch bank, he did so in com- 
 pliance with this rule ? — He did. 
 
 19253. Mr. Hunt having done so. may I ask who is the other agent? — Thomas 
 
 'o 
 
 Kearney, of Limerick. 
 
 19254. Is it his habit to lodge the money in the bank to the credit of the Gover- 
 nors? — No. 
 
 19255. How does he act?— He remits it by letters of credit, in favour of Mr. Bailow, 
 the treasurer. 
 
 19256. I see in the pass-book of the Bank of Ireland:—" November 12, 1855, cash by 
 E. Thorp, £2,500 ? " — It was I who lodged that money. 
 
 19257. How did it come up to you? — It came to me by letter of credit, in favour of 
 .John Barlow. Esq. 
 
 19258. Did you ever receive money in your own name? — I have. 
 
 19259. From agents? — Oh, never "froni agents. I will give you the exception : in the 
 case of Mr. Galway, I met him frequently as to the settlement of his account which was 
 in dispute, and having reasoned with him on some matters which I thought were WTong, 
 I did receive the £\Q^ referred to in my own name ; and I also at different times received 
 £34, £37, and a few simis of that kind. 
 
 19200. Dr. Andrrirs. — How long was that balance of .^2,000, which was remitted to 
 you by Jlr. Kearney, accumulating? — It was upon account of the rents of May, 1854, 
 which he has accounted for. 
 
 192G1. What is the annual rent received by Mr. Kearney ?— Do you distinguish between 
 his own receipts or his x'emittances to the Governors? 
 
 19262. I am asking what his receipts of rents amount to annually?— I have given every
 
 8 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAKD, COMMISSION. 
 
 llif Governor A of 
 the Srhools fiMnilcd III 
 £rax;nus Smith, Ksq. 
 
 Eustace Thorp, E.'q. 
 
 reference to Dr. Hancock on tbese subjects. I can tell you the remittances to the 
 Governors within a few huudreil pounds. 
 
 10:?63. What estates are represented by Mr. Kearney? — The southern estates I call 
 them. They arc called in the accounts the Tipperarj- and Limerick estates. 
 
 19iC4. Tlie net annual income of the estate over which Mr. Kearney is agent you 
 have returned as about £i,ai4 ? — That is the reason I am endeavouring to distinguish 
 between the remittances and the gross receipts. 
 
 lU'^G.'i. The annual income is £l,2l4 ? — Yes, in that particular year. 
 
 192C0. Do I understand you aright when you say that you never received any money in , 
 your own name from agents, except that money you received from Mr. Galway ? — Con-ect, 
 I believe. 
 
 19207. Mr. Slfi>Ji(iis. — AVill yon turn, Mr. Thorp, if you please, to page 73 of the 
 ledger ? — I have it. 
 
 19v!li>*. There appears there a sum of ill 1 12.?. id., rent and arrears of rent, to May. 
 18-13. It is entered twice to the credit of the Calverstown school, and only one corre- 
 sponding entry in the bank account. How is this to be explained ? — I think that is a 
 mistake. 
 
 l'J2(i9. "Wlio lost by it? — I will take care that no one shall lose by it. 
 
 1927 0. As it stands, what property or fund sutiered that loss'.' — As it staiids, the 
 Governors would sufl'cr. 
 
 19271. Then the governors would lose that amount? — They would lose £ll 12.s-. 2d. 
 
 19272. I)id you discover that mistake before? — Never. 
 
 19273. Will you turn to page 1 lo, the Linenhall-street accounts ? — I have it. 
 
 19274. Now, are there anj' entries struck out? — There are. 
 1927.">. r>y whose authority ? — By me. without any authority. 
 
 1927 0. What made you do it ? — I will tell you in a few minutes; for this reason — up 
 to a certain period, say i)ecember 21st, IsiO, the Governors had a school in Linenhall- 
 street, and from that time it ceased to be in operation — -there were no outgoings, and it 
 became necessary to show another description of account, namely, the money received by 
 me for the letting made to a tenant of the Governors, and the money paid by me for the 
 rent due to the owner of the property. 
 
 19277. Where does that appear? — Here. 
 
 I927bi. When was that account opened? — In j\Iay, 1819, at the time of the letting. It 
 Is .all here. The Governors set for their unex])ired term at ,i'2-") per annum, the tenant 
 covenanting to expend £00 upon repairs, a moietj' of which the Governors agreed to allow 
 him in his rent, at a rate not to exceed i'O o-v. half-yearly. The lease of the Governors 
 was for thirty-one years, from the 1st of January, 1837, which would expire in 1808- 
 
 19279. Was not that account opened in 184()? — Wait until 1 look at the date of the 
 letting- 1H17 is the earliest entry I have here. 
 
 192^0. When was it opened ? — At that date. 
 
 19281. Give me the precise date — 1847 is too general? — March 2nd. 1847. 
 
 192H2. When were the entries to which I have directed your attention struck out? — 
 Was 73 the page to which you referred? 
 
 J 9283. No ; it was page 145 ? — "\\'ell, I have nothing to tell nie exactly when I struck 
 out these. 
 
 19284. You have not ?— No. 
 
 1928;"). Do you not know irrespective of that book ? — No. 
 
 19280. What is the earliest time that they could liave been struck out? — .\flcr the date 
 of the last entrj', mxmely May 17, 1849, and these entries are not in my handwriting. 
 
 19287. Then 3'ou spoke of your own knowledge, irrespective of documentary evidence ? 
 
 —I did. 
 
 19288. 
 19289. 
 bcfcn'e. 
 19290. 
 192'.ll. 
 
 You say that these entries were not made in your own handwriting? — No. 
 
 In whose handwriting were they made ?— The book-keeper that 1 mentioned 
 
 What is his name? — A man named Hughes. 
 What has become of him ? — He is in Dublin. 
 
 19292. Was he employed by you ? — No. 
 
 1929;>. Is he now in the employment of the Board ? — No. 
 
 l'..'29l. Where does he reside in Dublin? — On Wellington-quay. He is one of 
 M'Causland and l''elherstone's clerks — chief clerk, or one of the cliief eh rks. 
 
 1929."). Docs the account show by whom the rent was received and paid? — The receipts 
 and payment of rent arc shown here. 
 
 19290. JMy question is, by whom ? — It does not show that. 
 
 19297. Who received the money?— I did. 
 
 1929H. Is there any account opened with yi)U in the ledger? — No. 
 
 19299. Do you ('all that a regular way of keeping accounts, as an accountimt ? — Quiti^ 
 sufiicient for the i)Ui'pose. 
 
 19300. Is it according to the regular hiihits of business? — I thinly it is very regular. 
 19.'!0] . You tliink it is very regular ? — I do not know what the regular habits of business 
 
 may be, but I can show that there is no pu/zle about it, in consequence of the accounts 
 being kept in that way. 
 
 19302. You have already told us that you did not Ivuow how to keep accounts by double 
 entry ? — I Inive said so. 
 
 IU3U3. That accounts for this iiregularity.
 
 EVIDENCE. 9 
 
 10;!01. Dr. AnJir/f.i. — Siipposiiij; tlic Governors wanted, at any time, to know how Di miH. 
 
 your ciisli iiccount stood, how wouhl tlu'v be informed of that?--] have no cash account _ ^. 
 
 witli the (jovernors. _ theSclwvlsfouu.ledhi, 
 
 li)o05. If you received rents, do(^M that n(;t constitute a cash account? — Ko doubt; but Emm'st Smith, Emj. 
 I have answered Mr. Stephens. I have no separate account. KuMace Thorn Ksq. 
 
 JlKlOO. If you receive money for tiie Governors, does not that constitute a cash account 
 — a casii transa(^tion ? — Oh, yes ; it makes the account a transaction ; but it is not an 
 account, unless 1 make it so. I do not make it an account ; I tell the Governors, and 
 they sec it on the face of the Lanli-bunk, which lies on the tal)le, I have received at a 
 certain date, so and so ; and though I pay the money that has come into my hands, 
 it is essentially accounted for in the re<,'istrar's account. 
 
 19307. Suppose the Governors want to know how yoar cash account stands with them, 
 ]iow do they acquire that knowledge?- — -They ask me. 
 
 • 19308. They have no other moans of acquiring information on that subject? — Yes; 
 they have Mr. Ilaiiiillon. 
 
 1930!). How does ;\Ir. llaniilton know? — 'SJv. Hamilton knows by my telling him. 
 
 ]9-'!10. Is that kejit in writing, in any book? — No. 
 
 19311. Mr. Hamilton derives his inft)rmation on tluit suVect from your telling him ; 
 the Governors derive their information by your telling them, or Mr. Hamilton telling 
 them ? — Precisely. 
 
 19312. You have no cash account in the books for yourself? — No. 
 
 1931:). Mr. Sti'/>//t'//s. — Is there no documentary evidence for the purpose of testing 
 the accuracy, or inaccuracy of your n.presentations to I\Ir. Hamilton ? — Oh, yes ; there is. 
 
 1931 J. What is it? — For instance, when I pay thereat, there is a documentary evidence — 
 the receipt which I get. 
 
 19315. Dr. Andrews. — ^Vhat evidence of your receipts can the bank pass-book contain — 
 that is, what you please to have put into the bank jiass-book ? — I could not put into the 
 bank pass V)ook any thing. 
 
 19310. How does the bank pass-book show what your receipts are? — I tell you the bank 
 pass-book shows my receii'ts and my lodgments. 
 
 19317. It shows your lodgments, but how does it show yoiu- receipts? — It does not. 
 
 19318. Is there any account showing what you received — any account opened in the 
 ledger ? — No ; but you take exception 
 
 19319. When you answer a question, you can give any explanation you think proper? 
 — These are my receipts and disbursement.'^. 
 
 19320. Not your receipts. 
 
 19321. yh: Sie/>kens. — Refer me to any account in the ledger showing your receipts ? 
 — There it is, under your hand. 
 
 19322. There is nothing about them in the ledger? — Look to the left hand side. 
 
 19323. [Secrctar;/. — 1"he account that Mr. Thorp refers to is an account entitled 
 " Linenhall-street premises," and he very properly put to the debit of that account 
 certain payments, and to the credit certain receipts ; but it does not state by whom the 
 money was received, or to whom it was paid. There is no account opened in the ledger 
 in the name of Mr. Thorp, showing the sums that he received and paid, to his debit and 
 credit ; and showing the balance due to or by him. This account shows the state of the 
 Linenhall-street premises, but there is no account showing the state of Mr. Thorp's 
 account, or of the sums received by him.] 
 
 19324. None, because there never was a balance in my hands. 
 
 1932."). Dr. A'/dreirs. — But the Governors have no means of knowing wliether there is 
 a balance in your hands, save by your statement ? — None. 
 
 19326. Your verbal statement? 
 
 19327. Mr. Sti-pheii.<i. — The ledger does not show the assets and liabilities of the Gover- 
 nors at the end of each year — for instance, this ledger extends IVcun 1843 down to the 
 present moment. Now, will you tell me what the assets and liabilities of the Governors 
 were at anyone jicriod of time, from November, 1843, down to the present moment? 
 — Well, eonnnencing at November 1st, 1813, to April 27tli, 1844, the receipts were 
 X.'j,700 'iS. lid.; and on the other side, after disbursements, there is a balance carried 
 down £1,8-57 4s. Id. 
 
 19328. That is only the balance of your expenditure ; but it does not show the assets 
 of the Governors? — Does it not? I do not know what assets are except what they receive. 
 
 19329. Is that your definition of assets as an accountant? — Tell me what you wish me 
 to answer with regard to assets. 
 
 19.'j30. My question was whether the ledger shows the assets or liabilities at one period 
 of time, from November, 1813, down to the present moment? — It shows the receipts 
 during this time, the expenditure on account of these receipts, and the balance, if any. 
 
 19331. Dr. A//dreir.i. — That is the balance between the receipts and expenditau-e ; but 
 it does not show v/hat they were entitled to receive, or might then be entitled to receive ? 
 — It does not. 
 
 19332. [Secret (irij. — What Mr. Thorp refers to is the account with the Bank of Ireland. 
 It merely refers to receipts by tlie bank, and the expenditure through the bank.] 
 
 11)333. Mr. SlepheriK.^Cixn you give me the meaning of "assets" as an accountant? — 
 I am not an accountant. 
 
 19334. You keep the account books of the Governors ? — But that is a drSferent thing. 
 
 1933.'). What arc you? — I am assistant registrar of the Governors. 
 
 Vol. IL V,
 
 10 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COXOIISSION. 
 
 Dl'blijj. 19330. Theu do you profess to umlerstand hook-ki'cjnng ? — Not by tlouule entry. 
 
 „ 19337. Do vou understand it bv any entry ?• — Xaa. 
 
 iheslk^hfhUmidb!, 1SJ338. By what system of entry ?— I understand to keep these books. 
 :Erasmus iimith, Esq. 19339. How are those books intended to be kept ? — I think you see the way I intend 
 Eustace Thorp. Esq. to keep them. I explained to you there is no account at all, except on one side ; but 
 there is a classification, and then it comes to be matter of debit and credit. With the 
 exception that the Bank of Ireland shows our receipts and drafts against them, as in 
 the case of the Calverstown school, with that exception there is no debit or credit. The 
 account is all a classification of the cash book. 
 
 19340. Do you consider, Mr. Thorp, that these accounts are kept according to any 
 system of office accounts ? — No ; I could not prove to them. 
 
 19341. Then, they are not kept according to any system of office accounts? — Not as 
 well as I would wish to keep them. Occupations have prevented me from writing them 
 up to tliis date, which would not have been the case if ordinary circumstances had occurred*. 
 
 19342. Then, am I to understand you, that in consequence of your occupations your 
 accounts are irregularly kept ? — Oh, not that. 
 
 19343. Am I to understand you, that in consequence of your occupations your accounts 
 are regularly kept? — They are not written up, as I before expressed it; but the registrai-'s 
 account, which is an account of the items, &c., that is regularly kept. 
 
 19344. Are the accounts kept as office accounts when, from November, 1843, down to 
 the present moment, the ledger does not show the amount of assets ? — Would you give 
 me your definition of assets. 
 
 19345. Will you answer my question ? — -I cannot give a better answer than I have given. 
 I have told you what the accounts contain, what they do not contain, and notiiing more 
 than thej' do contain ; and that is all I can tell you. 
 
 19346. Ai'e these accounts made uji in accordance with any recognized system of office 
 accounts ? — Let some other person decide that ; I will not decide it. I could improve 
 these accounts; it has been my wish long since to imj^rove them, and I know they will be? 
 improved. 
 
 19347. But that is a different thing from saying that they are kept in accordance witli 
 the system pursued in other offices ? — One office may thinkr my system is quite satisfac- 
 tory, and another office may say quite another thing. 
 
 19348. Do you know of any system of office accounts running over a course of fifteen 
 years, at any period of which, the assets could not be ascertained ? — Will j-ou give me 
 your definition of assets, and then I will ansAver? 
 
 19349. I am not here to answer your questions? — I said before that the total receipts 
 of the Governors for a certain number of years are here in the books before you. 
 
 103.50. A mere abstract of the receijitsis all that this ledger professes to show? — That is all. 
 
 19.351. Does this ledger contain an account of all the receipts, or does it only give an 
 account of the lodgments ? — All the receipts on behalf of the tiovcrnors, not on behalf of 
 the agents. 
 
 19.352. Does it contain all the receipts on the behalf of tlie Governors from 1843 down 
 to the present moment ? — With one exception. 
 
 19.353. AVhat is tliat exception ? — I described to you what it was "before. 
 
 19354. What is tliat exception ? — It is tlie exception of £000. 
 
 19355. Turn to that exception, if you jjlease, and read it. — "10th of November, 1854. 
 Debtor r)ank of Ireland. — Southern Estates lodgments by E. Thorp; part of a remittance 
 by Thomas Kearney; whole remittance, £ 1.91)0; handed to registrar £l!00; £l,300 
 brought out. " 
 
 19350. Consequently the remittance w<juld be £flOO short on the face of that £l, 300 
 being brought out in that way? — The diffinence between £l,300 and £l,900. With that 
 exception it does contain the total receipts of the Governors. 
 
 19357. Can you give me any explanation about that t'OOO ? — I can. 
 
 19358. Is tliere any account with Jlr. llaniilton in the ledger? — .V cash account, the 
 same as you were speaking of to me. 
 
 19359. Is there any account with ]\Ir. Hamilton in the ledger? — No. 
 I'.).3(i0. Is that £(;(io charged in the ledger to Mr. Hamilton ? — No. 
 l'.)3iil. Why? — Because there is no account. 
 
 19302. You received it? — Certainly. 
 
 19303. Then why did you not enter it? — Enter it where ? 
 
 19301. In the lodger? — Have I not answered that question by stating that there was 
 no aciMiiuit for Mr. Hamilton in tlie ledger. But I tell you wherc^ it is entered. 
 
 19305. Do you not know that there was an account opened with the registrar down to 
 1H49, and no account since that period ? — I believe there is. 
 
 19300. Refer me to the ledger. That is what I wish you to speak from ? — Here is the 
 account witli tlie registrar. 
 
 19:!07. Winn does that terminate. \'ou say there is no account at the present moment 
 with Mr. Hamilton? — Tliere is an account lor Mr. llaniilton in the (^ash-book. 
 
 19;i(j8. I am not asking you about the casli-book ; but is it in the ledger? — There is 
 none in the ledger. 
 
 19309. Was it not kept in the ledger down to 184 9 ?— It was. 
 
 19370. Why was it not kept subsequently? — Wliy, I did not sec any use in it. 
 
 19371. Did not the Governors, according to their rules and regulations, order that 
 account to be opened ? — I am not aware.
 
 EVIDENCE. U 
 
 19:)72. Ill point of Aict, was it not kept dmvii to 181i) ?— Yes. ' . Ddbun. 
 
 li);)73. What made you discontinue it froiu isi;) down to the present moment? — '/■/„■ cJiii^mn nf 
 Because I saw there was no use -whatever in it. iiu: sdfooLifoandeil h,/ 
 
 liJUT'l. Ik-cause you saw there was no use in it? — Yes. ' Erasmus Smith, l^i. 
 
 1!);J7.5. Is tliere any account between the registrar and the Board, at tlie present niomont, Eustace Thorp, Esq. 
 ill tlic lodger ? — None. 
 
 19376. And yon thouglit pri)))er to discontinue it? — Yes. 
 
 10377. You thought proper to discontinue it, although tlie Board tliought proper to 
 order it ? — I am not aware of the Board ordering it. 
 
 19378. Do you not know, in jioiiit of fact, that it was ordered ? — 1 do not. 
 
 19379. You stated that there was an account with the registrar down to 1849? — I say so. 
 
 19380. Did you discontinue that account without authority from any person ? — I did. 
 
 19381. In direct disol)ediciice of the order of tlie Board? — I do not think I did. 
 Would j-ou allow nio to give an explanation':' 
 
 193H2. [Si'rrefnn/. — Tliis is the minute of the standing committee of the 23rd Novem- 
 ber, 1843 : — " The law agent's draft of a system of office accounts, postponed from 14th 
 instant, was again submitted. ' Ordered — That same be approved of ; that the office 
 accounts commence on said system from the 1st of November instant ; that an experienced 
 person be employed to open the accounts accordingly, and that proper books be provided 
 for the purpose.'" 
 
 19383. In consequence of that minute, the ledger, as now produced, with the exception 
 of one or two accounts, was couunenced on that system in November, 1H43. The cash- 
 book, or what is called the cash-book, is not a cash-book at all, but an account between 
 the registrar and the Governors of the school. When this account was opened in 1843 it 
 was balanced regularly, and the balance carried into the ledger; but the registrar's account 
 in the ledger ceased in 1819; and since that period to the present there is not a single 
 entry in the ledger under the head of " Registrar's Account," although the account in 
 the cash-book between the registrar and (xovernors is carried on to the present time.] 
 
 19384. Mr. S/cjt/ie//.i. — Is this account of the registrar posted in the ledger'? — The 
 cash-book is posted in the ledger. 
 
 19385. Is this account of the registrar posted in the ledger ? — No. 
 
 19386. Wliy ? — I saw no use in it. 
 
 19387. [Secret ari/. — The casli-book is posted generally up to 1854, as appears from the 
 
 numbers in the cash-book.] \ 
 
 19388. They are not my numbers. 
 
 19389. Mr. Stephens. — I see at page 101 of the cash-book, in the account between the 
 registrar and the Governors: — "Balance in hands of registrar, £1.011 Os. 3d.;" and 
 there is in somebody's handwriting, in pencil, "Not posted."' Was that sum of money 
 posted ? — " Not posted " is my pencilling. 
 
 19390. Was that sum of money posted? — Certamly not, because I discontinued the 
 accovmt ; but it is brought forward to the registrar's debit in the next page. I debit him 
 immediately after. I said I would not continue this account- I said that on my own 
 authority, and did not continue it. 
 
 19391. Every other item on that page and page 100, it appears, is posted in the ledger, 
 except this one ; why are the others posted and this not posted ? — The others are posted 
 for the reason I have stated to you, that it is considered an advantage to be able to know 
 the expenses of each school any year. 
 
 19399. Who considers that an" advantage besides yourself? — It appears the Governors 
 considered it an advantage. 
 
 19393. Then, according to my notion, it is a mere memorandum, not a ledger? — There 
 is a great deal in that memorandum. 
 
 19394. It is not a ledger ; because there is no debit to any school, no receipts from any 
 particular school, and it is, in fact, a one-sided account — that is, the expenditiu'e of each 
 school is not charged aunuallj' to the expenditure of the Board?- — Oh. yes. 
 
 19395. Where ? — In the account in the bank. Here arc the drafts. 
 
 19396. Do you not make up your ledger from your bank-book, because that will be a 
 clue to all your answers ? — I think I answered that before, and if my former answers 
 
 19397. Will you answer that question ag.ain ? — I will answer it much in the same way. 
 I-'irst, the bank-boolc, the rentals, and the cheques, and every thing else I possibly can. 
 For instance, I will read an entry : — " Eeuewal Fine, James Daly," Could I get that 
 from the bank-book ? And if you could not get it, I could not get it ; and I am, therefore, 
 Qbliged to get information from other sources. I do not make up the accounts from the 
 bank-book. 
 
 1931)8. That I'liOO, by-the-by, li;is not been accounted for; will you be so kind as to do 
 so ?^I have put a special note in this ledger with respect to that. There was a letter of 
 credit for £ 1,900 received from Mr. Kearney, in the way in which I stated, in favour of 
 Mr. Barlow. Mr. Hamilton, and I (ilr. Hamilton, perhaps, was more so), were anxious 
 to pay the poor schoolmasters. We laid this state of things before Mr. Barlow; and in 
 order to pay them at once, Mr. Barlow permitted me to lodge £l,300, and to hand over 
 £(100, or rather to lodge it to jMr. Hamilton's account, as registrar, which I did on the 
 10th of November, and debited Mr. Hamilton with £600 cash. 
 
 19399. Does that appear in the ledger, if so, refer me to the page? — How can it appear 
 from Mr. Hamilton's account in the ledger, if there be no account for Mr. Hamilton. 
 As I explained to you before, Mr. Hamilton's account is the cash-book. 
 
 Vol. II. C 2
 
 12 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 HcBi.ix. 19400. Is it entererl in the cash-book ? — I said so. Give nie tlie cash-book. All the 
 
 books were taken from me in an unfinished state. 
 
 ,1 i*^ i^'TC"""','''i 1 19401. This transaction occurred in 18.54, and in August or November, 1855, there is 
 
 tl'e Schools founded b>' ,- • o /-\i ^i • i • ,■ i t i i • ^ ■ i 
 
 Erasmus Smith. Ksq. HO entry 01 it ! — Oh, tliere is ; and it there was not, 1 woiud just give the same answer. 
 
 Kustai-e Thorp, Esq. 19402. [Sccrelari/. — This account purports to be a cash account, and is called the cash- 
 book ; but it is reallj- an account between the I'egistrar and the Governors ; and one side 
 of the account is composed entirely of drafts on the Bank of Ireland and the registrar. 
 His account has been balanced up to the 31st of October, 1854, which is folio l;i8. 
 
 194 03. The account then runs on from folio l.']8 to 150, and on the debit side of that 
 account there is not a single entry. Then at folio 150 there are a number of entries, and 
 among them is a ledger crciHt for £000. Then, on the opposite side there are the 
 disbursements to the credit of the registrar, and they are entered up only to the SOth of 
 
 April, 1855, and those entries are then added up If you turn to last August, you will 
 
 find all the cheques collected with which the registrar is debited. 
 
 19404. I look to the succeeding date of the 31st of October, 1854, and what Mr. Thorp 
 saj's is perfectly correct^ — that all the cheques are posted on the debit side : but it also 
 appears that these accounts were made up at the end of the year, and the entries not 
 made at the time they occuired : which is the usual practice of book-keeping. — What 
 addition is that you have made ? 
 
 19405. T!iat it appe.u'S the entries were not made at the time they occurred.- — How 
 does it prove that ? 
 
 19400. For this simple reason, that the dates on the debit side are not, as in a regular 
 system of book-keeping, entered ojiposite the corresponding dates on the credit side. If 
 Mr. Stephens looks to where the drafts are collected, for the purpose of showing them 
 all at one view, when they come to be audited.] 
 
 19407. Mr. Stephens. — Were they entered upon the day the cheques were drawn? — Not 
 upon that book. 
 
 19408. In what book were they entei-ed? — Upon the minute-book. 
 
 19409. Where are those minute-books? — In your possession. Allow mo to call Mr. 
 Stephens' attention to this entry, made at a meeting of the standing committee, held 
 6th day of Ueccmber. 1854, with reference to the iCOO. The treasurer reported, that 
 since last meeting (which was on the 2nd of November) he had received from Mr. 
 Kearney a remittance of £1.(100 ; that the registrar being in want of immediate funds, he 
 had handed him £000. and had lodged the balance to the credit of the Governors; amount, 
 £1,300. 
 
 19410. Is that transaction in a regular account ? — It is not. 
 
 19411. Dr. yi;i(Zre?f'.s\ — When did you make the entry with reference to tliat £600 ? — 
 The cash book is written up to Jlay, 1855. 
 
 194r2. When did you enter it? — Immediately after that, because the treasurer had 
 audited in November. 1854. and, perhaps, would have audited again the following half- 
 year ; therefore, in closing the balance, it was necessary to show how the registrar and 
 Governors stood. 
 
 19413. Upon M'hat authority were you authorized to pay this money? — I am authorized 
 to pay it by the minutes. 
 
 19414. ]jut is it entered in any account as against the registrar, up to that period? — 
 Yes; it was entered in the treasurer's block-book on the day tiie transaction occurred. Do 
 you call that an account? 
 
 19415. Was it entered in any book, day-book, journal, cash-book, or any thing? — No, 
 except what I have written, and what I have told you, 
 
 1941G. Do j-ou. in point of fact, make any entry in any book, when you receive money 
 for tlie Governors ? — Vv'ith the exception of the Linenhall-street account whic h I showed 
 you, I do not. 
 
 19417. Tli(-n you receive money, and do not make any entry in the book at all? — No. 
 
 19418. The whole matter rests in your memory? — What do I receive. I do not keep 
 the money in my hands a day belonging to the Governors; I lodge it at once. — show the 
 bank-book at the ne.\t meeting, and there is an end of the transaction. 
 
 19419. If the Governors wanted to investigate the Linenhall-street account, how could 
 thoy ascertain wliat portion of tlie lodgments in the bank is on foot of the Linenhall-street 
 premises? — V,y the accounts wo were sjjcaking of — the ledger, the bank entries — the 
 receipts on account of the Linenhall-street premises arc specified in the ledger, as to the 
 amounts. 
 
 194'20, When ?— Since 18.50; 2(Jth Juno, 1850. Linenhall-street promi.ses, for lodgments 
 by E. Thorp, ,£ll \~s. (id. LinenJiall-strect, .lanuary, 1850, by L.Thorp,£io r2A'.G(/„aud 
 60 on. 
 
 1!)421. When is that written nj)?— [t is written up to lOfh of March, 1854. 
 
 19422. Ar(> your lodgments mentioned uji to that time? — They arc. 
 
 19423. liow would the Governor.-*, if tiicy wanted to settle their accounts with the 
 Linenhall-street school, find out what was duo" by that school, and what they had received ? 
 — I$y this account. 
 
 19424. How Avould that show what is ])ayable by the premises ?^ — It shows the rent 
 reserved, the allowances for ])oi)r rate, &c. 
 
 1942.5. Does it sliow the rent reserved ?— It does, if they had it. 
 
 1942(;. Does it sliow the rent received in ;uiy other way than by what you havo lodged? 
 — No, the receipts ought to agree with tlie lodgments.
 
 EVIDENCE. 13 
 
 19427. Tlicy oiiglit to agree ? — Yes. Iidbmn. 
 
 19428. But you do not yourself enter in a cash-book of your own. any money you 
 
 receive '? — No ; I get rid at once of any money whicli comes into my bands. the SihZh founded by 
 
 19429. Do you iliink your system a good one? — Very good, i never liold money EruMus Smith, Ei(]. 
 belonging to any one else, which I think is an excellent system. Kustace Tliorp, Esq. 
 
 194.'iO. Do you tliink it a good system not to k-ee[) an account of tiic money actually 
 received for your employers ?- I have no reason to ciiange it. 
 
 19 i;51. Do you consider it a good .system ? — It is good in my iiands. 
 
 l'.)432. That is, if a man be perfectly honest, no injury will result from it? — I told you 
 I never hold money in my hands at all. 
 
 194153. I>ut do you consider it advantageous not to keep an account of your receijjts? — 
 Yes; tliere is no use of my keeping an account when 1 lodge the money. 
 
 19434. Then you consider it is not your duty towards your employers to keep a cash 
 account of your receipts? — I do not think it necessary, and, therefore, not my duty. 
 
 1943.5. Did }'ou receive any other money besides tliat out of the Linenhall street 
 premises? — I did; but J mentioned it. Do you mean e.xclusive of agents? because I 
 made tliat distinction by ]\Ir. Stephens' desire. I told Mr. Stephens 1 received money 
 from agents. I did receive other moneys. 
 
 194.>6. Did you receive any otlier moneys in addition to tlie receipts on account of the "" 
 
 Linenhall-strcet premises? — The rent of Lombard-street ground. 
 
 1!)437. Is there any account of it in tlic ledger? — No, sir. 
 
 19438. Of what do tliese premises consist? — Ground let for building. 
 
 19439. Do you receive any other rents or any oilier moneys for the Governors? — If I 
 had the bank pass-book it would refresh my memory. 1 have received £15 as legal com- 
 pensation for some ground. 
 
 1944 0. Did you enter that in any book ? — It was lodged. 
 
 19441. You did not enter it in the cash-book? — No; I lodged it at once. 
 
 19442. Did you receive any other money? — I do not recollect any other: but I dare 
 say I may have received some. All the moneys 1 received 1 lodged. I have no money in 
 my hands belonging to the (Jovernor.s. 
 
 19443. 1 am not questionirig your accuracy in this respect ; I am only asking you do you 
 ever enter them in an account as against yourself? — Never. 
 
 19444. Upon the 27th of April, 1853, lodged, per E. Thorp, the amount received from 
 Lady O'Donnell, upon settlement, per Jolm Orpen, £208 5s. 8t/. — 1 received that money, 
 and lodged it. 
 
 19445. Is that transaction entered in any other book? — No; but it appears on the 
 minutes. 
 
 19446. Is there any account which shows the nature of that compromise? — Certainly. 
 
 19447. AVliere is it to be found? — It is to be found in the minutes; but what it was 
 paid for does not appear. 
 
 19448. Does it show the state of the account between Lady O'Donnell and the Gover- 
 noi's? — The account is settled by the agent up to a certain time, September 29th, 1853. 
 and then there is a settlement of £2()8 5s. Sc/. 
 
 19449. Is there any account to sliow the nature of that settlement? — Yes; I think the 
 minute will show it. 
 
 19450. Will you refer rac to the minute which sets out that account? — It is contained 
 in the standing committee book of November 9th, 1853: — "Mr. Thorp reported, that 
 since the order of last meeting he liad been in communication with Mr. Orpen, Lady * 
 O'Donnell's solicitor, and that he had come to the following arrangements witli liim. Tlie 
 Governors forego tlie interest tipoii the judgment obtained l."otli May, 1850, for £ 14 1 7.s. Id., 
 provided her ladyship would pay the sum of £2G8 5s. '6d., composed of the following 
 items, viz. : — 
 
 The above judgment, £141 7 7 
 
 Two ycars'rent to 1st November, 1851, . . 89 19 11 
 
 Taxed Costs of ejectment, . . . . . 33 8 2 
 
 Sherifl's and habere, 3 10 
 
 19451. That is the only account of the transaction: you have no account in any other 
 book ? — No. The agent of the Western estates accounts for that arrear, and in his account 
 we took that sum olf. 
 
 19452. But there is no other account of the transaction in your books? — As to that sum? 
 
 19453. You were going to read something about law costs ? — This is the continuation 
 of the minute I referred to — " That £208 5s. tiiL was accordingly paid., and that it is lodged 
 to the Governors' credit. 
 
 " Ordered — That the above settlement be approved, and that tlie warrant to satisfv the 
 judgment be sealed, and that the law agents be paid £52 Os. "cZ., their taxed bill of costs, 
 received from Lady O'Donnell, and which amount is included in the above sura of 
 £208 5s. M. Draft No. 82,130 was accordingly tilled for £52 Os. 3rf." 
 
 19454. Is there any account which shows what is due to the law agents from time to 
 time? — No: they furnish their bills of costs, and they .are paid. I tind the payments 
 made to the law agents when I took up these books were placed under the head of inci- 
 dentals, and I did not like that system. 
 
 19455 Is there any account which shows what is due to the law agents from time to 
 time ? — No.
 
 14 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dbblik. 19456. Will jou turn to the cash-boot, page 124. under the date of 15th October, 1853 
 
 — I have it : Paid balance of pavments, as r.t the other side, of their bill for miscellaneous 
 
 .J'!fPT7'"'V''',, hnv costs. £234 16.<. 11 (Z. 
 
 Erasnuis Smitii, Esq. 1940 <. Uocs any account show what tliat balance was .'' — i have their taxed bill of costs 
 Knstace Thorp, Esq. ^t ^^^ ^i™© ! it amounted to £1,334. Wc were not able to pay the whole, and wo paid an 
 instalment. 
 
 19438. How many years was that bill of costs running ? — Ten or twelve years. 
 
 19459. During all tliat time have you an entry in the ledger, or in any of the books, 
 vshowing the state of the accounts between you and the law agents? — None; and the£(jOO 
 and £500 paid on account is carried to the other side, as follows: — " ilera. of settlement 
 with the law agents, of their bill of miscellaneous law costs, amounting to £ 1 ,334 KJ.s. 1 Id- : 
 
 Paid 15th November, 1852, and charged folio 116, . £600 
 
 Paid 20th July, 1S53, and charged foho li^3, . . 500 <) 
 
 Paid balance as charged upon it. . . . 234 16 11 
 
 1 9460. Supposing the law agents had accidentally omitted to enter that sum, which 
 you paid on foot of that tran.saction, were there any means whatever, save that minute, 
 by which tlie Governors would have seen that they were entitled to credit for it ? — They 
 have this. 
 
 194(11. What ?— The minute. 
 
 19462 Tiiat is, they should look back to the minute; and supposing that the minute 
 was overlooked or destroyed, and that the law agents had forgotten it, what would become 
 of that sum'?— The law agents would have had it. 
 
 19463. And the Governors would lose it? — Yes. 
 
 19464. Now, with respect to that £600 paid in November, 1852 — supposing you had 
 gone away from the establishment, or did not remember it, and that the law agents had 
 made some mistake, and had not entered it, is there any thing to suggest to the Governors 
 that that sum of £600 had been paid ? — You have the blocks of the drafts. 
 
 19465. Then the Governors must emplov some person to wade through all these 
 accounts, during tlie period these payments were being made, in order to discover that ? — 
 No such thing. 
 
 19466. Hove would they do it? — By looking to the blocks of the cheques. 
 
 19467. Wliat cheques? — The treasurer's clieqnes. 
 
 19468. But tliey would have to go through the treasurer's cheques, or they would not 
 discover it? — Oh, yes ; tlie minutes are kept continuously. 
 
 19469. Were you dealing rightly with the Governors by not keeping that matter properly 
 before them, so that they would be able to see. at any moment, wliat sum they had paid 
 to the law agents ? — I thhik I kept it before them pretty well when I made that memo- 
 randum. 
 
 19470. You think it sufficient to have that memorandum on the minute, and then leave 
 it to accident to bo discovered? — 1 thin!: I have to do with those with whom no mistake 
 has occurred. 
 
 19471. Do you consider it your duty to your employers that you did not bring forward 
 that in a regular account, so that they might see what was paid to the law agents the 
 instant they required it? — I have not done so; the biU has been settled. 
 
 19472. Then, you have no account with the law agent in your ledger ; and the only 
 means of finding out what tlie (iovernors paid is either by the minutes, or the blocks of 
 the checks? — At present; but you will lind in the cash-book a margin for the present, 
 becau.se I did not think the way in which 1 found the law agent's account was right, and 
 woidd not continue it ; and, therefore, I have intended to open an account for years past ; 
 to take out that £1,300, and bring it forward, and show, for ten years back, what sums 
 have been paid to the law agents. 
 
 19473. For ten years yon have been intending to open an account for the law agents? 
 — Oh.^no ; I intend to go back for ten years. 
 
 19474. Air. tlUqjhens. — You have before you the cash-book, from 1843 tn 1S47, does not 
 tliat book contain an account of the cheques drawn by the Governors, and of their appli- 
 cation by tlie registrar? — It does. 
 
 19475. Are not the accounts in that book regularly closed for each month'? — Yes; up 
 to a certain time they are. 
 
 19 176. Are they not <lown to 1847? — Yes; I believe they are. 
 
 19477. And is not th(^ easli Italance ascertained every month? — Yes. 
 
 19478. Woulil not the efloct of that be, to enable the treasurer to check the cash balance 
 at the end of eacli month ? — It would. 
 
 19479. Was that book kept by you'? — Part of it. 
 
 19480. From wliat iieriod'?— From 1845. I see mv handwriting in 1845. and 1846, and 
 1847. 
 
 1 948 1 . Is it balanced every month ? — It w.is never used, and, therefore, was discontinued 
 as being very troublesome. 
 
 19482. Why did you discontinue it? — It was valueless. 
 
 19483. What do you mean by that ; did not the treasurer look at the cash lialance every 
 month'?— lie did not. 
 
 19484. Dr. Andrews. — Would you say he never used it? — Never, to my knowledge. 
 
 19485. iMr. Stefihens. — When you diil balance it did lie never examine it? — Never. 
 
 19486. Did the registrar direct you to diacontinuo closing that account regularly each
 
 EVIDENCE. rr, 
 
 montli ? — No ; 1 think it occurred in this way : I saw tho inutility of striking a balance for J)liii,in. 
 
 no object; and then I discontinued it. It would give the treasurer more trouble in ,.,, .—, — .. 
 auditing— lie would have to audit each one of the.s(; balances ; tliat is all saved hy the mode ttn- >^rhmU fmindc'd Im 
 
 in which I do it now. Erasmus timilli, Est/. 
 
 10487. Dr. Andrews. — Tiiat is a wholesale way of doing it ?— lie can tell tho whole lOustaire riioii>, Ksq. 
 cash for the year now, if he likes. 
 
 19488. You could see the whole casli for tlie year, if you would look through the 
 accounts? — Yes. 
 
 19489. Ilow do you keep them now, for tho last twelve months? — The treasurer 
 audited up to tlie 1st of November, 1854 ; then I closed them on tlie 1st of May, iH.'j'j. 
 
 19490. When did you last ascertain the cash balance as appears by the book now before 
 you? — U])on Jlay, 1855. 
 
 19491. Wlion before tliat? — November, 1854, and audited by the treasurer, and five 
 times since Mr. Barlow's election to tho office of treasurer the cash balance was ascertained. 
 
 19492. Has there been, from August, 1847, to the present, any regular time for balancing 
 the registrar's accounts ? — No regular time; but we all know how we stand pretty easily by 
 the registrar's own account with the bank — at least by his book with the Bank of Ireland, 
 and liis clieques from the Governors, we know how much is in lu's hands at a moment's notice. 
 
 19-193. Mr. Stephens. — Were the entries res])(!cting the Linen Hall-street premises, 
 which are posted at tho end of the ledger, posted after or before the entries made at page 
 145 of the ledger? — That is put into tho Baidv of Ireland account. 
 
 19494. Wore the entries tliat are struck out, or cancelled in red ink, struck out or can- 
 celled before you entered tlie account at the end of the ledger? — They were done in tliis 
 way: I copied them; the scliool being discontinued, and one side of the entries being done 
 away with — that is, payment to masters — I then from that date copied them into the end 
 of the ledger. 
 
 19495. [Secretary/. — Was it at the time or after the last date? — After the last date. 
 
 19496. What is tho last date?— May, 1849. 
 
 19497. Was the first entry made before Jlay, 1849, or after May, 1849?— After. 
 1949i^. Were those entries made from 1839 to 1849? — They were never entered at all — 
 
 that is, though I opened the new account, and 
 
 19499. Your former statement was that this account was opened in 1847? — I stated I 
 commenced it. 
 
 19500. Your former statement was it was opened in 1847'?— I meant by that the entries 
 commenced from 1S47, not that I wrote it in 1847. 
 
 19501. My Lord, Mr. Thorp is in error; the Linenhall-street account was not opened 
 till after 1849. There appears in 18-17 sums entered as received for rent in March, 1S47, 
 and Jul)', IS47,and in January, 1848. Mr. Tliorp now states it was not opened until after 
 1849 ; therefore these items of the receipt of rent were not entered to the credit of the 
 premises at all for two years after they were received. They are not charged against Mr. 
 Thorp in any way ; but if the sums were lodged in the bank they would ap]3ear in the 
 bank account, and not appear in the account between the premises and the Governors, 
 which is now ojjened,] 
 
 1950"2. Mr. Stephc}ts.—Hafi any balance sheet been prepared since you have been assist- 
 ant registrar, showing the amount upon a given day of the moneys in the funds, or stock 
 in possession of the Board of Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Schools, the debts due to 
 them, and their liabilities? — Estimates have from time to time been made of them, and 
 submitted to the Board. 
 
 19503. Will you produce those estimates? — I do not think I could. 
 
 19504. Why? — Because I do not think I have them. 
 
 19505. Wlio has tliem? — I suppose they were destroyed. They were things ordered at 
 one meeting of the Board to show how our affairs stood, so as either to reduce the expen- 
 diture or extend it, as the case might be; and these estimates were made out, and 
 submitted, and acted on, or the Governors were guided by tliem. 
 
 19506. Were all these estimates destroyed? — I do not think I have any of them. 
 19507- By whom were they destroyed? — By me. 
 
 19508. By whose orders? — I had no orders. They were made for a temporary- object, 
 and not looked upon in any other light than as temporary matters. If you wanted to 
 see how much stock the Governors have to their credit, look to the bank-book, and tlie 
 half ycarl}' dividend shows the balance in bank. 
 
 19509. Is there any account of the delfts due to the Governors? — No such thing. 
 
 195 1 0. Have you the minute book of the standing committee of 23rd of November, 1843, 
 before you? — I have. 
 
 19511. Is there any entry of tliat date in respect of the accounts? — There is. 
 
 19512. Will you read it? — "The law agent's draft of a system of office accounts, post- 
 poned from 14th inst., was again submitted. Ordered — that same be approved of; that 
 the office accounts commence on said system from the 1st of November inst.; that an 
 experienced person be employed to open the accounts accordingly; and that proper books 
 be provided for the purpose." 
 
 19513. Have you that draft, or does it appear from your books whether the sj'stem of 
 office accounts wliich was so required to be kept by the order of the Governors was 
 adopted ? — No. 
 
 19514. Do you know where the draft is? — I think I could get it. If it is not in the 
 office, I can get it from the person who has it.
 
 16 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ddblin. 19515. I mean tlie draft as to the system for the ofTico accounts ? — The draft referred to 
 
 _~ _~;~ in this minute. 
 
 theScho^s'fi^tZdcdb:, l'J51(J. Is that minute still in force, or has it been repealed by any subsequent minute? 
 
 £rasnms Smith, Esq. 1 do HOt think it has. 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq. 19517. Have the accounts been kept in accordance ■with this order of tlje Board ? — Thev 
 have not been written up to the present time, otlierwisc I believe they are kept in accord- 
 ance with it. 
 
 19518. Dr. Aiidrcics. — "When you said the accounts were kept generally up to 1854, wit!) 
 some exce])tians. the exceptions you made were the Calverstown account, and next the 
 law agents ? — Precisely. 
 
 19519. Then you e.xcepted the registrar and inspector's accounts. What did you mean 
 to convey when you used that exception ? — I meant to say that there was no account 
 entered for the registrar and inspector. 
 
 19520. Well, there is the stock account? — Not written up, but the system to bo carried 
 out when I dispose of that whicli I explained with regard to the Calverstown stock falling 
 into the Governors' stock. 
 
 19521. Up to what time was the stock kept ? — The ledger will tell you. 
 
 19522. You mean by the word stock funded property? — That is all. 
 
 19523. It does not refer to stock in the mercantile sense of the word? — No. 
 195 -'4. Up to wliat time was the account of stock kept? — May the Uth, 1846. 
 19525. How did it happen that that system was not carried on since May, 1 84() ? — Well, it 
 
 was not carried on since May, 1847. One of the reasons witli regard to tlie Calverstown 
 stock was that it was merged into the common stock. 
 
 1952G. The account of the Calverstown stock was carried on longer than that period? — 
 One way it was. 
 
 19521. Wliat made you not carry on the general stock account up to the same {feriod you 
 carried on tlie Calverstown stock account? — I might have done it. 
 
 1952S. The circumstance you have assigned as a reason for carrying on the Calverstown 
 stock could not have been the reason ?— 1 did not do it. 
 
 19529. The Kedesdalc charity, you did not except that as one of the accounts as not 
 being kept up. Has it been kept up? — N^o, it has not been kept up. 
 
 19530. Up to what period will you find it? — It is carried down to the 17th of January, 
 1854, on one side, and on tlio other side down to A])ril, 1850. 
 
 19531. On wliat side lias it been kept up to April, 1850? — The receipt side. 
 
 19532. It has not. in point of fact, been kept since 1850? — No. 
 
 19533. Your receipts were not kept uj) since 1850? — No. 
 
 19534. The building fund account, wiien was it kept up to ? — That appears to bo closed. 
 
 19535. Do you mean by that balanced? — There is no balance with a few exceptions, it is 
 only an account for reference, and the items are all vouched. 
 
 1953G. When was the building account entered or commenced? — I find 1841 is the 
 earliest date. 
 
 19537. What is the latest date?-- 1843. 
 
 19538. Wiien you say that account has bccnclosed, what do youmean by being closed ? — 
 This is the last account ; but there is no account now. 
 
 19539. There is no account at all? — No. 
 
 19540. AVliat do you mean by saying it is closed? — The practice is, when a school is to 
 be assisted, the difl'erent jiaynients made on this account are ])Ut into the cash book. 
 
 19511. What do you mean by saying it has closed? — That the whole items were inserted 
 up to tliis. 
 
 19542. Has the account been audited ?— Yes. 
 
 19543. There has been no building fund account kept since that? — No. 
 
 19544. Has there been any money expended for building since?— I believe not, except 
 upon our own schools. 
 
 19545. Has there been any account kept of that?^In the minute book. 
 1954G. Have you any separate accounts? — No. 
 
 19547. I'hcre is no account brougiit into the ledger? — It will be brought into it in this 
 way, tliat if wc liavo assisted particular schools it will appear under the head, cash. There 
 is all the material to make an account. 
 
 19548. JUit you have no building fund account in tlie ledger? — No. 
 
 19549. Then what do you mean by saying you have the material to make an account? — 
 Yes, all the material. 
 
 19550. You have the materials to make an account, but you have no building fund 
 account made out in the ledger? — Precisely. 
 
 195il. Have you any entry of the money allocated to the ]iurposcs of building except 
 what is Hcattcrecl through the books? — All these building fund accounts consist chiefly of 
 repairs, and expenses of that nature jiasses througii the cash book regularly at the date of 
 payment. 
 
 19552. Then, when an order is made by a minute, for a building grant, you do not open 
 an account in respect to it? — No; whenever aid is recpiired for a school an estimate is 
 submitted to the Governors, and an order made for the grant. We hear no more about it, 
 until «•(! get the certificate of tiic execution of the work, and then the money advanced 
 is put into our disbursements. 
 
 19.553. Doe.i it ever happen that a grant is not claimed? — 1 will distinguish again, if 
 you allow mo.
 
 EVIDENCE. 17 
 
 19.'5.j4. Will you answer my question — docs it ever liappcn that a grant is not claimed ? Dimnx. 
 
 19555. IIow will the Governors know how much of the funds was applied, and how s.-ho'ul^f"Zdr<i bjl"" 
 much was not applied ? — There is no buildin;;; fund at present. I'.iumu^ '.Siniili. A«/. 
 
 1955G. Suppd.sinc; they wislicd to find how a ])articul;ir sum of money was ap])liod, thoy KuNiacf I'ljorp. Ksq. 
 could not tell? — The money wliicli is j^ranted is not paid at tlic time. TJiere is a certifi- 
 cate comes up, wlien the work is comj)I(;ted, and on that certificate the money is paid ; 
 but, in case the money is not claimed (which is very rarely the case), it is not paid. 
 
 19557. The Governors have no means of ascertaining when there is no claim, if tlie 
 sum allocated was paid or was not paid ? — There is no particular money allocated for th.it 
 purpose. 
 
 )95.'>8. Have vou not minutes showing that a particular sum was allocated for huilding? 
 —Yes. 
 
 19559. But supposing the minute had not been entered, or had been accidentally 
 destroyed, is there any account kopt for the Governors showing how much oi" that money 
 has been applied and how much money has not been applied '? — They have. 
 
 195G0. \V hero is the account ? — Thu account is in the casli-book. 
 
 195(')l. Then, it is in tlie cash-book they would find it? — Yes; it is entered there 
 before it is paid. 
 
 195G2. Assuming the money rightly applic.l. and on a proper certificate — suppose the 
 Governors at any time asked you for the sake of information as to the building grant, how 
 much had been applied, and how nmch had not, had you any account to refer tliem to, by 
 which they would see that ? — Yes. 
 
 195G3. Where is it? — For instance 
 
 195G4. Where is the account which shows that, and it will speak for itself? — I do not 
 think there is such an account as that. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq.. sworn and examined. -Tot'" r.^nlow, K^q. 
 
 195C5. I!ev. Dr. Cravex. — What office do you hold in connexion with the Board of the 
 Governors of l'>asmus Smith's Schools ? — I am treasurer, and as such I would make an 
 observation before my examination commences. It is merely to set right a mistake into 
 which Mr. Thorp has fallen wliile he was being examined. I did not like to interrupt 
 him ; but I think he stated to the Commissioners, that in the instance of the law agents 
 wc paid £1,300, and that there was no record of it in our accounts. Now, as trea.surer, 
 it is my duty to audit these accounts, which I do from time to time : and I s.iy that there 
 ■will be found in many of the accounts which are at this moment on your table, this very- 
 item of law costs introduced aiul audited by me as treasurer ; and, therefore, it was a 
 great mistake for ^Ir. Thorp to say there was no record to be found of it in any of our 
 proceedings. 1 should never have ])assed these accounts unless I had before me the par- 
 ticulars, and I can answer these [larticnlars will be found in the books on the table, audited 
 by me as treasurer. I do not wisli to take up the time of the court at ])resent, and if the 
 Commissioners wish to adjourn my e.xaminatiou until to morrow, 1 will give them every 
 explanation. 
 
 195(J6. That is the wish of the Commissioners. We propose to adjourn the court until 
 to-morrow, at twelve o'clock, at whicli time we will resume your examination. 
 
 Vol. II. I>
 
 18 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAKD, COMMISSION. 
 
 DOBLIH, 
 
 7^ Governors of the 
 
 Schools founiled by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 Dublin-, 7th December, 1855. 
 
 Present : — The Marquess of Kildaue, Chairman ; Rev. Dr. Graves, Dr, Andrews, 
 Mr. SiEPHEss, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq., further examined. ti 
 
 19567. Chairman. — Have you brought any books or papers with you? — I have, my 
 Lord. 
 
 1 9568. Produce them, if you please ?— I hand these in. 
 
 195ii9. What are those books and documents? — Letter books, rentals, and accounts: 
 also the school returns and other books. 
 
 19570. Have you got the law agent's draft of the statement of ofTicc accounts? — No, my 
 Lord; I searched for it, and could not find it; but I have brouglit the books consequent 
 upon that report. 1 have also brought the account respecting the Calverstown trust fund, 
 to which Mr. Stephens referred yesterday, and upon which the change in the stock was 
 made I have also brought the abstract of rules, which, I think, Mr. Stephens ' , 
 
 19571. Mr. Stephens. — I wish to see all the existing rules and regulations? — This is. a 
 printed copy of the rules, which I found collected. 
 
 19572. Docs it contain all the existing rules and regulations ? — I am not prepared to 
 
 say that. 
 
 19573. Chairman. — Have you made a search for the law agent's draft of the system of 
 ofBcc accounts? — I did, but I have the result 
 
 19574. Can you not produce the draft itself? — I cannot. There were only two or three 
 places where (i could be ; and having searched these I did not find it, and therefore, I 
 think, further search is useless. 
 
 19575. Mr. Stephens. — It is a document referred to in the minutes of the Board. 
 
 19576. [Mr. Barlow. — I will answer for it — that the law agent (Mr. E'etherston) will 
 produce it.] 
 
 19577. ISccretarrj. — One of the documents handed in by Mr, Eustace Thorp is entitled — 
 " An abstract of the bye-laws, taken from the registry books of the Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., dated 1796. Enclosed is a copy of manuscript rules, 
 extracted from the proceedings of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, 
 approved and ordered to be printed by the Board, ilay, 1835." TJicse manuscript rules 
 appciar to have been made the basis of the rules for 18G5, and were sketched out, in order 
 to be recommended or approved of] 
 
 19578. Mr. Stephens. — Were these rules ever sent to press? — I do not know; it was only 
 in a search for other papers for the Commission that they turned up. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq., further examined. 
 
 19579. Chairman. — What office do you hold on the Board of Governors of tlio Erasmus 
 Smith's Scliools? — Chairman; and, as chairman chosen by the Governors, 1 am by the 
 charter, treasurer. 
 
 19580. When were you appointed chairman ? — In the beginning of the year 1850. 
 
 19581 . Wiiat are your duties as chairman and treasurer ? — As chairman, whenever I can, 
 to attend the conmiittces and the Boards, and to summon those committees and J5oards when 
 I think it necessary. In tlie interval between the meetings, the registrar has directions to 
 come to me, if he requires any directions, and if I consider I can arrange the matter submitted 
 to me, I do so; but if not, 1 summon a committee or Board, as the case may require. When- 
 ever I can make it convenient, 1 attend these committees or Boards. 1 am also, as treasurer 
 under tlic cliarter. ajjpointed to audit the accounts of the Governors; and 1 wish the Commis- 
 sioners to understand that I never did do that, nor never could do it, through a connnittce 
 or Board. It requires a great deal of time and trouble. And in connexion with tliis subject 
 I wish to say, that every shilling received by the agents of the Governors, and of the funded 
 property received by the secretary of the bank, is introduced into the accounts ; I look to 
 the accounts of tlie agents, having first had them submitted to the registrar. It is the regis- 
 trar's duty, if ho considers there is any tiling wliicli requires particular consideration, when 
 I am auditing the accounts, to bring tliat before me, but notwithstanding that, I always 
 look over these accounts myself; 1 see that the l)alances are properly brought forward into 
 the next account, and that every pound wliich has been expended by the agents, has been 
 properly expended ; I require receipts for every item. We have, I think, about 1 16 or 120 
 Bchoohnastcrs, who receive tlicir salaries every half-year; and I wish to mention to the 
 Commissioners, to show liow cautious and ])re('ise tiio Governors are, as regarding these 
 accounts, that 1 have nevor ])nssed any account, in i\hich I have not had before me the 
 half-yearly recei])t of each of our schoolmasters; they ;ire very small items, and your lord- 
 ship will lind to these receij)ts, many of which are on the table, my initials in red ink. I 
 desired the secretary — not yesterday, but the day before — to have several of these receipts 
 in the room, that they might be at once produced, to show the Commissioners how exact 
 wo are with these accounts. There is also a copy of every account 1 havi; audited in our 
 books, on your lordshi])'s t;d<l<! ; and if not, they can be put on it. I hold myself morally 
 responsible to ascertain, as far as I am ca]iable, that every shilling of tho Governors' projierty 
 has been properly received by their agents, and pioperly accounted for, and according to
 
 EVIDENCE. 19 
 
 •their directions lotlgod in the Banlc of Ireland ; and from the bank not &, sLxpfenco can be DvnLtn. 
 
 dr.'iwii wliich has not to the document ])y which it is drawn, my signature, and tljc signature „,. _ 
 of two other (Jovcrnors, placed thereto in tlie board- room. Since I have become treasurer, ' Schoohfvunded l»/ 
 not a single draft has ever been drawn cut of the committee or Board-room, nor do I Erasmus 'Smiih, Ki<i. 
 believe it has ever been done in the time of my predecessor; of course, I cannot be Jalui Uarlow, Esq. . 
 certain, but I believe not. 
 
 19.7t<'2. As you draw a distinction between the Board and the committee, define tlieir 
 respective duties V" — The dutie.s of the committee form a ])art of the duties of the registrar ; 
 all the correspondence is kept ijy hiiu for the standing committee. If, as I before mentioned, 
 between the meetings of the Board or standing committee, there is any letter which 
 requires immediate attention, and that I do not consider it necessary to summon a Board 
 or committee, tlie registrar receives directions, and he acts on them, but always bringing 
 that matter forward in the minutes. 'I'lien, if that is to be done, every letter and every 
 part of our business is put into the minute book, and brought before the standing 
 committee. In fact, the standing committee docs the ordinary and usual business of the 
 Governors ; there are matters which none but the Board can do, and these matters are 
 brought before tlie Board. 
 
 10583. llow many form a (juorum of the standing committee? — Three, but the average 
 attendance will be found to he about six. I have here, if the Commissioners wisji for it, 
 the number of attendances every yciu- since I have been treasurer, with the names of those 
 who attended. The document whicli I hand in, goes back not oidy to the time I liave been 
 treasurer, but to the time when I was first elected on the Board. [_The document id 
 handed in.] 
 
 IDoSl. Is there any fi.xed period for the meetings of the standing committee? — No, my 
 Lord, ft generally meets once a fortnight, but their meeting depends upon the business 
 they have to transact. 
 
 19.'5iv'5. What number constitutes a quorum of the Board? — Five. 
 
 19586. Is there any fi.xed period for the meetings of tlie Board ? — None. 
 
 19587. They are summoned for the transaction of business according as you thiidc 
 necessary ? — They are summoned by me, and if any of the other Governors wisli to have a 
 meeting, that wish is always attended to, and the meeting called. The standing com- 
 mittee could not appoint schoolmasters or schoolmistresses without the sanction of tho 
 Board ; that must he all done by the Board ; or if there is any change to be made in 
 t!io rules, it is brought before them. Tlic resolutions of the committee are generally 
 attended to by the Board, and to all matters which require the seal of the Cor])oration, it 
 is alExed to them by the Board, never by tho committee, except there is a special order for 
 doing so. I think, since I became treasurer, that order has been given twice or thrc<; times, 
 not more ; these were cases in which the documents were not quite prepared by the law 
 agent when the Board met. I should also mention, that the seal is kept in a box, which is 
 lodged in the Bank of Ireland ; and whenever it is required by the Board, it is brought by 
 my order; and the key of the seal box is held by some of the other Governors, not solely 
 by me. 
 
 1958S. Can you state what security has been given by tho registrar? — The registrar has 
 given £3,000 security ; and 1 may say in reference to the question put to Mr. Thorp 
 yesterday, as to his security, that I, as treasurer of the Board, do not consider that he is 
 our ollicer requiring security. If ^Ir. Hamilton, the registrar, pleases to entrust Jlr. Thorp 
 with any part of our funds, to take down to the Bank of Ireland, or elsewhere, Mr. Hamilton 
 is responsible to the Governors for that act; at the same time, it is only justice to Mr. 
 Thorp to say, ho is perfi>ctly trustworthy, and that Mr. Hamilton runs no risk in doing 
 that: but. however, be that as it may, the Governors hold Mr. Hamilton responsible. 
 
 l'.(539. Mr. Stephens. — Is Mr. Hamilton responsible for the conduct of Mr. Thorp? — He 
 is responsible to us for the performance of his duties to the Board. No douhr, Mr. Thorp 
 is our bookkeeper, but it is j\lr. Hamilton's business to sec, when I come to audit the 
 accounts, that they are correct before me, and to him I solely look. 
 
 19590. \Vas this paper which you have handed in made out for your own private 
 purposes ? — It was. I wished exactly to know how many attendances I have given, and 
 you will see them all marked in red ink. 
 
 19591. Perhaps you would like to revise it, and hand it in on a future day, because it 
 may have to be printed ? — I liave not the slightest wish to have it back again. There is 
 also here a list of the standing committee, perhaps you would wish to have u. 
 
 19592. Let it be handed in. [The document is handed in.] — There is another duty which 
 the treasurer undertakes with the assistance of two other members of the Board. There is a 
 Bub-committce formed to consider all the abstracts which are made out from tlie reports made 
 by the inspector of our schools. He inspects every scl.ool, and gives his answers to qiu v^-tions 
 which are in a printed form; and before they go before tlie standing committee they are 
 rei'erred to a sub-committee, who consider in their own houses all the reports. They 
 compare them with former ones.' They also have before them the observations of the 
 superintendents of our schools, who are generally the clergymen of the parish, or influential 
 persons in the neighbourhood ; and \\\wn these reports they make any observations they 
 please — such as whether the master or mistress is entitled to a gratuity, or whether it should 
 be withdrawn. These documents are then all laid before the standing committee, and are 
 again looked over, if there be any particular matter requiring consideration, and if not, 
 the salaries and gratuities, where deserved, are paid on our reports. You will find the 
 initials of each member of the sub-committee on each of these reports. 
 
 Vol. II. D 2
 
 20 ENDOWED SCHOOLS. IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 DuBi-iK. 19593. It would facilitate the inquiries of the Commissionens, if j-ou would be fio kind 
 
 , as to give a collection of all the rules and regulations which are now in force, or if you 
 
 Schmh'^foundll L'/' would acquaint the Commissioners where thoy are to be found. There is an abstract of 
 Kiastmiis'SiuUli. Ei<j. rules from the registry book, amended in 18:35. handed in; are you aware whether it 
 .)oUn B.arlow, Ksq. contains all the rules and regulations down to 1835 ? — I am not ; nor do I think I ever saw 
 that book up to the time of my appointment. I know little of the concerns of the charity, 
 further than I am obliged to refer to the books, if any matter is brought before the Board 
 requiring such a reference ; and prior to my appointment, the Covcrnors acted pretty much 
 in tlie same way. We have attended the meetings of the committees and Boards — we have 
 done the business as it was done by our predecessors; and as for any rules or regulations 
 for our government, I am not at all aware of any ; nor am I aware of any written ruk'S 
 being laid down for the government of our registrar or assistant registrar. There may be, 
 but I am not aware of them. We require, however, tiiat all our bu.siness shall be ])ropcriy 
 transacted by our registrar, and recorded in our minutes ; l)ut as to any code of rules, I am 
 really not aware of any. I do not mean to say there are no rules, but I never looked for 
 them, nor am I aware of them, 
 
 \'.)594. Here are some regulations with respect to the office of treasurer: — " Ordered — 
 that the treasurer be cliosen annually; and such treasurer not to be continued longer than 
 three years, as the charter directs"? — I can answer tliat has been repealed ; the treasurer 
 may be perpetual. 
 
 19505. Have you the following rule respecting the election of treasurer — " The Gover- 
 nors, or five or more of them, do elect a treasurer every year, in the month of May, to 
 continue one year, or so much longer as may be necessary, and may be re-elected as often 
 as the Governors tliink proper"? — Since the year 1850, they thought ])ropcr to reelect me 
 under that rule. That is the Act of William IV., to which you are i-efcrring, it commences 
 with the recital of the charter. 
 
 I959G. There is a power of re-election under these rules, and you must know that the 
 Commissioners labour under difficulties in not having before them all the bye-laws and 
 regulations of the Board ; because then, in one instant, we can see if they have been 
 deviated from ? — The only answer I am capable of giving is, that when I became one 
 of the Governors 1 found that things just stood in the same position in which they 
 have remained ever since, and I am not aware of any rules laid down for the government 
 of the Governors; and I very much doubt if 1 have deviated from tlie course practised 
 in the tim.e of my predecessor, Dr. lOlrington. 1 should say 1 followed the course exactly 
 that he did. I do not think there has been the slightest change in the management of the 
 affairs of the Corporation for a great many years. 1 believe the late Lord Downes was Dr. 
 Elrington's predecessor, .and that he adopted the same course for twenty years; but if by 
 any search we can fmd any rules, tlie Commissioners shall certainly have them. 
 
 19597. The charter of William IV. is dated 183.3, and these rules were to have been 
 printed in 1835. — 1 was not on the Board in the.so ye.irs, and am, therefore, quite incapable 
 of giving any information respecting that period. 1 was not a Governor until the year 
 1839. 
 
 99598. The title of the document handed in is — "Rules extracted from the proceedings 
 of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., approved and ordered 
 to be printed by the Board. 1835." — 1 know 1 never saw these rules, or any tiling about 
 them, because at that time I was not a member of the Board. All I received, when 1 
 became a Governor, was a copy of the charter. 
 
 19599. You should have a copy of this document which 1 now hold in my hand ? — 1 can 
 only say 1 ioUowed tlie practice which, I believe, my jiredeces.sors followed lor many years; 
 anci 1 am not aware of any mistake or irregularity proceeding from it. 
 
 19000. The Commissioners would be obliged to you. if you would take this abstract of 
 by-laws wliich has been handed in. and cancel tliose that are repealed? — As far as 1 can 
 I will do that. 
 
 1900!. 1 lieso by laws, whiih profess to be extracted from tlie jiroceedings of the 
 Governors of the schools, approved of, and ordered to be printed, must ho now in force, if 
 not repealed l)y subsequent by-laws? — Certainly; and the first thing 1 shall look to is the 
 minute book of 1 S35, and see wliat tliat approval was ; and how it came before the com- 
 mittee of that day. Whatever information can Ix' given to t!ie Commissioners shall, of 
 course, be fully given. 
 
 19002. Kev. l)r. Graves. — I think I understand you to say, that there are no fixed 
 days a])pointed for the meetings of tlie Board ? — None. 
 
 19003. In looking tlirougii the registrar's book, I find, under tiie date of 23rd April, 1834, 
 that the following order was made : — " Tiiat there be two stated meetings of tiie Board 
 held in each year, namely, on tlie first Tuesday in May, and on the first Tuesday in November, 
 of whi(;h ten days' notice sliail be given by tiu! registrar, who shall be resjionsible for the 
 issuing of summonses." That order, then, has fallen into disuse? — It lias fallen into disuse; 
 but, now that you mention it. I hav(> a distinct recollection that this order, in substance, is in 
 force. There are several more meetings than two in the year. There is one in the month 
 of -May, and I should say — jierhaps not in November, but about tliat time — there always is 
 a meeting: that there are two meetings in the year, and more, there is no doubt whatever. 
 The rule may not be strictly complied with, i)Ut (>ssentially it is. 
 
 19004. Vou have no recollection as to whether the rule has been formally repealed or 
 roBcinded ? — ] am sure it has not. 
 
 19005. The next order of the same day was as follows: — "That the agent shall be
 
 EVIDENCE. 21 
 
 required always to attend tliese stated meeting's, and he bo Bunimoncd accordingly."— Uuni.nc. 
 
 Tliat was found excocdinsrly inconvenient, and has not been attended to; but whenever we ,,., ^ ,. ,, 
 
 ,. , . '^ • ., . 1 • 1 • ,- -,11 I heCovcrnom nj tin: 
 
 niid It necessary wo summon our agent, bometnnes there is a letting of a considerable jart Srlioul-i founded hi 
 of the pro]iertv- j-'.nismui Smiili, Imj. 
 
 lil'lO'i. .\t tiie time this rule was made there was hut one agent on the estate? — T am John Barlow. Kwj. 
 not aware of tliat. 1 Hii[)[)ose tiiat was in the time of Mr. Cooper, who was agent for a 
 great many years, hut it was before my time. 
 
 19G07. Tiio rule, liowever, is not at present acted upon? — Xo; but we are in constant 
 correspondence with the agents. 
 
 19<i08. The \u\\t rule goes on to say that, "at each of these meetings, the agent sliall lay 
 on the tabic, for tin; infonniition of the (iovernors, a full rental to the preceding Istof 
 November, or 1st of -May, ;is tlie case may lie; with tlie account for the same ]>eriod, stating 
 all the receipts and payments, and e.Kplaining all arrears, with his opinion as to tlie proper 
 measures to be taken ibr the recovery tiiereof, or giving liis reasons why they should bo 
 struck oft' as not recoverable." Does the agent .at present send up any periodical statement 
 of this nature? — Periodical he does not, but his accounts are regularly before the Board 
 once a year, and. I liclieve, twice — the Western twice, and the Southern once. Tliey are 
 regularly auditc^d; and whenever any particular information is required, he is immediately 
 called u[)on to report to the lioarJ. 
 
 lOtiO'J. Do the agents furnish their accounts in duplicate? — I do not tliink they do. 
 We have always a copy of the account left with us, and whether he has one or not I 
 cannot say. 
 
 19()10. You do not give them back the signed accounts? — We do not. 
 
 I'J il 1. I hold in my hand a rental, put in at a court held in Limerick. I find on one page 
 anumber of queries wliicli arose upon an examination of tiie rental of the Southern estates, for 
 the half-year ending the 1st of j\Iay, 18.50 — thus, for instance: "AVhy were noi the rents set 
 down?'' '• What are these holdings?' &c. Are inquiries of this kind made upon the agent's 
 rental by the treasurer? — I think not. I am not aware of the document you have; but I do 
 not think it is likely they have been made by me. [Document is handed to witness.] Tin's 
 was done, I think, ]M-ep:iratory to the account being laid before me by 5Ir. Thorp; but this 
 document I never had in my hand I>efore. I know nothing of it; but if an account comes 
 up, and that ^Ir. Thorp is not satisfied with the statement it contains, previous to placing 
 it before the treasurer, he makes it as perfect as he can, and makes himself capable oi' giving 
 mo the information I require on the account before me. Thus occurred the observations in 
 this document, but I never had it in my hand before. 
 
 19(jr2. Then these questions and the answers to them furnished by the agents, are not laid 
 before you when you are looking over the agent's acounts? — xso. 
 
 191)13. That is a prior step towards the ]n'Cparation of the account, and made by the 
 agent in concert with Mr. Thorp? — It is made by Jlr. Thorp to render the account, when 
 put before the treasurer, as perfect as he can ; but I have never seen this document before. 
 
 19614. Would it not facilitate your passing the accounts to have tliese prior inquiries 
 before you ? — 1 think not: because I merely look over the accounts, and see that the general 
 rental is returned to the Governors. If I find any matter of any moment in the account, I 
 ask an explanation; but I examine the accounts as sent up by the agents, and hud before 
 our registrar, and if I do not see on the face of them any thing calling for particular 
 observation, 1 do not enter into any calculations with res])ect to these accounts. I iiavo 
 never done it; and the truth is, 1 do not know that I would be capable of doing it. 
 
 196 1.5. But would it not be necessary to have sucli prior inquiry as is made there instituted 
 into the several items of the agent's account? — I think tliat is done b_>»the registrar, or the 
 assistant registrar, lie examines the accounts ; if they are not satisfactory, he brings 
 the matter before the Board. If he finds the accounts are satisfactory, and that the income 
 of the Governors is properly returned, I con.sider that we ought to be satisfied with them ; 
 but as to my entering into each particular item, whether I could do it or not, I at once say 
 1 do not do it ; nor do I think it was ever done by any of my predecessors. But if you look 
 to the management of the estates generally — see what the income now is, and what it had 
 been — I think you will iind they are well managed. \\ c have got excellent agents, and 
 we are well satisfied with their management. 
 
 19616. To investigate the rental inthis way would haveentailed aconsiderable expenditure 
 of time and labour? — No doubt ; but if necessary we should certainly incur that expendi- 
 ture, and consider ourselres justified in doing so. But as to arrears, for instance or any 
 change in the rent, tlie agent has no power whatever of giving up arrears, or changing the 
 rent, or of choosing a new tenant, without that being specifically brought beibre the 
 standing committee, not before the treasurer. 
 
 19617. Mr. Stephens. — If you were personally to examine all these minute particulars, 
 would it not occupy the entire of your time, or would it not be a very serious encroachment 
 on your time?— No doubt; but in the first jdace, as I have already stated, I would not bo 
 competent to do it; and in the next. I think that it is unnecessary. I consider that the 
 Governors feel they discharge their duty in having taken great trouble and attention in the 
 appointment of their agents; and in having, between the agents and them, our registrar 
 and our assistant secretary; whether he is a jierfect accountant or not is not for me to say. 
 1 am sure of this, that he is able to detect any errors in our accounts between our agents 
 and ourselves, if they exist; and if any infringement of our rules should be attempted by 
 the agent giving up or changing the rent, he would bring that fact before the Governors. 
 In fact, speaking in round numbers, our estate is £5,000 a-year ; and if we find, after
 
 22 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ddblls". mating reasonable allownnccs, tliat wo receive £5,000 a-rcar, with no complaints, but on 
 
 the contrary, from our tenants, the Governor., ought to be satisfied. I may mention that 
 
 "^^^ ^]'"!"'"M'M the agent of the Southern estates, Mr. Kearney, is a surveyor of the county in wliich he 
 Erasmus Smith,' Esq. Hvcs. He !s very Well thought of by all the gentlemen living in that county, and has been 
 John Uirlow. Esq. a most excellent and active agent. 
 
 19618. Of course you took a large security from him? — I think we have £5,000 or 
 £6,000 security from liim. 
 
 19619. I believe that the Governors do not receive any salary for their labours ; and that 
 their services are purely gratuitous? — Certainly. 
 
 19620. Is the treasurer, under the charter, entitled to sixpence in the pound on all 
 moneys received? — I think that was done away with, but whether or not is of no conse- 
 quence, for I have never received it, nor did ray predecessors ever receive it. In fact, 
 though I am tre.isuror, I never received a sliilling of their money, nor did any governor or 
 myself, directly or indirectly, receive any thing for tlieir management of tliis charity but a 
 good deal of trouble, and on some occasions a little unpleasantness. 
 
 19fi21. Is that fact clearly cstablisliod by tlio accounts? — I could establisli it more 
 clearly. I hold in my hand a parcel of receipts which came before me when auditing ; and 
 I venture to say, without having looked at them ever since, every one of them, to the 
 amount of a sliilling, or whatever bo the amount, lias my initials to it before I pass them. 
 The blocks of cheques are first given to me, as chairman, to sign them, but they come 
 again before me wlicn I am auditing the accounts, and to every one of these blocks will 
 be found my signature a second time. 
 
 19622. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Would you turn, Mr. Barlow, to the book called a cash 
 book, folio 1 38 ?— I have it. 
 
 19623. Be so good as to read the entry to which your name is attached "E.xamined 
 
 foregoing account, witli voucher.-j. commencing 1st of May, 1854, and ending 1st of 
 November, 1854, and found it correct." 
 
 19624. V\'hat do the columns of figures immediately before the money column refer to 
 in that page? — I rather think to tlie voucliers, but 1 am not sure of that. I really do not 
 know what they are ; there are no marks of mine to them, but I dare say Mr. Thorp will 
 be able to tell you wliat these figures are. I may mention that Mr. Thorp says that these 
 figures are connected with the ledger. 
 
 19625. They refer to pages in the ledger? — So Mr. Thorp says. I know nothing of it, 
 as I never looked into the ledger in my life. I a,\\\ not an accountant — -I am not a book- 
 keeper — and if I did look to it, 1 dare isay I would not bo much wi^er than I am at 
 present. I am glad to have the opportunity of saying, I never looked into a page 
 of it. 
 
 19G2G. What do the heads of account, next to tliese entries, refer to? — They refer to 
 certain accounts; for instance, to tlie Lombard-street premises, and to the half year's rent 
 due, on foot of these premises, in Marcli, 1854, less income Uix. 
 
 19627. [Mr. TJiorp, do these entries refer to heads of account in the ledger? 
 
 19628. Mr. Eustace Thorp.— Yes.'] 
 
 19G29- I dare say I will he able to explain what the Coramis.sioner wants to know. In 
 my preceding accounts these rents will always be found ; and then when I see what I 
 passed in tlic former I again sec the Lombard-street rent brouglit into this account, and 
 tlie half year credited to tlie Governors. Ab soon as 1 see that, I mark it off. 
 
 19630. If it so happened that nothing was paid on foot of the Lombard-street account 
 the iirecediug half year, what clieck would you have ? — I should have detected that in 
 the former year. If it was the rent for November 1853, ic would be in the book, and I 
 should e.xpect to find it in the account for May, 1854. 
 
 19631. Supposing it had been several half years in arrear? — I should not liave allowed 
 it. If rent was due which was not received, [ should be told the reason. 
 
 19632. But how would you know it was duo? — By finding it in the former accounts. 
 196'5:i. Supposing it was not in the former accounts? — If the first account which I 
 
 audited was not correct, 1 admit at once I would have no check; but then I take it for 
 granted my predecessor pursued the same system as 1 have. I know he was not an 
 accountant, but I sat beside him when auditing the accounts, and I know his system was 
 mine. 
 
 19634. In such a case as that, the use of a ledger becomes apparent? — I do not at all 
 mean to say, that, as a matter of bu.siiiess, the keeping of a ledger is not correct ; but all 
 I can say, as treasurer of this corporation, is, that 1 i'eel satislied a single shdling of their 
 money lia^ not been lost from the method in which wc have kept our accounts; and 
 therefore you have at this moment, or wc have, if you choose to ask for them, the materials 
 for putting our accounts into any shape you jilease. If the Commissioners think of 
 putting the accounts into any particular form, of course I feel that it should be done 
 as they may direct. 
 
 19*)35. I notic(! one of the entries in that Jiagc which is before you has no corrcs])onding 
 figure in the column of reference to the ledger — what is that item? — Mr. Thorp has put 
 his finger on the sum of £3,000 ; is that it? 
 
 19636. Yes. — I can o,\])lain that. I brought before the Board on that jiarticular day, 
 that our balance in bank was large, and I thought it might be well to purchase stock for 
 that £3,000. The Governors agreed with me, and they gave mo on that day a draft to 
 purchase that stock. I walked down from the board-room to our stock-broker with one 
 of the Governors, and I told Iiim to purchase stock that day. Uo did not purchase the
 
 EVIDENCE. 23 
 
 stock that clay, and the next day the Iiooks closed. Tliat sum remained unpaid by me, and Dublin. 
 
 was an over account, as it is called, until the bool;s oi)encd, which wayin a few davn after, _, ^ 
 
 on I liandcd him the 13,000. _ ,^,,,,„^i, f„^„dodb,j 
 
 l'J(i37. I was going to ask how you cxphiin the fact of its not being entered in the Enn^mus'Smih, Etq. 
 lodger? — 1 know nothing at all about that. I have already snid of that ledger I know John Barlow, Esq., 
 nothing. 1 know this account before me— my own account; and I can answer, I think, for 
 every item in that account; but as to whether that £;},0U0 should bo placed elsewhere, I 
 do not know. 1 am quite ready, as 1 have said, to let the accounts of the Corporation be 
 put in any shape you jjleaso, but at the same time I mii.st repeat the ob.servation that I am 
 perfectly certain, under the management of the Govci'uors, not one shilling of their 
 property has been improperly disbursed. 
 
 19(338. That item could not have been posted in the ledger, because there is no account 
 in the ledger under the head of treasurer ? — Xo ; but that draft would not liavc been in my 
 hands five minutes but for the circumstance 1 tell you, that our stock-broker did not 
 purchase the stock in the ordinary way, which is the reason of the money not being 
 accounted for on the very day. 1 think I should say, on behalf of the Governor.s, that by 
 placing that £3,000 in my hands, they did not part with it in a way I could have parted 
 with it. 
 
 !!)(i39. You represented the Board on the occasion ? — Yes ; and though from my title, 
 perha])s, it might be inferred 1 have money in my liands. I beg to s;iy 1 never have, or wish 
 to have. I should like to make an ol)servation, with the permission of the Commissioners. 
 In the year of our pressure and trouble, we found, like a great many other landlords, that 
 we could not get our rents. We did not wish to deprive our poor schoolmasters of their 
 salaries, though we were obliged to take a great part of their salaries from them. Wc had 
 no money ; and in order to meet our demands, we requested the bank would allow us to 
 draw on them to the extmit of £4,000 ; that request was made, and acceded to by the 
 bank. They required no security from us, and we overdrew our account not only to the 
 extent of £4,000, but to the extent which will appear by these items. In the year 1843, 
 the average for si.K months, £301; in 1844, for three months, £942; in 1845, for two 
 months, £-192 ; in 184G, for eight months, £l/28G ; in 1847, for nine months, £2,131 ; in 
 1850, for si.K months, £970 ; and in the year 1S51, when our affairs became better, and when 
 the overdrawing ceased, it was £471. I wish, in mentioning these items, to observe, that 1 
 think the Governors have shown they have taken as much care of the money of the charity 
 as they could. It was said, in making the application to the bank, we should have to pay 
 them interest, but they never charged one farthing of interest, although the Governors 
 offered it. It sometimes happened that our balance in bank might be over £3,000; but 
 even so, I think the circumstance aiFords a specimen of tiie feeling of the bank. 
 
 19G40. Would you be so good as to look over that ledger, for the jnirpose of seeing its 
 general nature ; does it n(jt appear that an atteni]jt was made to commence keeijing the 
 accounts of the Board by a system of double entry ? — Certainly. 
 
 19G41. Commenced in connexion with what is called the cash book? — Certainly. 
 
 19()42. Do you not think that such a system of keejnng the accounts would be the right 
 one ? — I think it would be very con-ect to do so, and they should have been kept in that 
 way, because it was ordered. 
 
 19G43. The charter requires the treasurer, and the registrar, and the agent, and all 
 and every other of the officers employed by the Governors, to yearly make and give up, a 
 true and just account of all his and their receipts, disbursements, balances, and arrears of 
 rent, and of all and every such sum and sums of money, and other the goods and revenues 
 belonging to the same schools, as shall have been by him or tlum received or disposed of 
 as aforesaid, unto the said Governors? — From the marginal note I would say that the 
 treasurer is to have the accounts regularly kept, so far as lie considers they should be kept ; 
 he is never called upon to have them audited by five Governors. They are placed on the 
 table at their meeting, together with the ledger, for the purpose of the Governors making 
 any observations they please; but they are not required, nor did 1 ever require them to do 
 60 ; notwithstanding, the accounts have been regularly audited, and ready to be jiroduced 
 to them, or anybody else, at any moment. 
 
 19(i44. Do the accounts, as kept in that ledger, show the arrears of rent due at any 
 particular time ? — I am sure they do not ; but I should say, that until to-day I never looked 
 into that ledger — I know nothing about it. As to the agents' accounts, I can answer that 
 all arrears, so far as they could be recovered, have been recovered, and brought into the 
 account, but they are not in this particular book, and regularly kept as a bookkeeper would 
 keep his books. I do not mean to say that our Governors should not keep books as 
 merchants and bankers do; 1 wish not to he understood as saying so. I think they have 
 sufficient books to show that every sixpence of their revenue is brought into the accounts, 
 aiul properly disbursed ; antl I know there are the materials to keep the books in the way 
 indicated, if it is thought right to do so ; but 1 do not see the necessity, nor do I mean to 
 say it is not necessary. 
 
 I!l(i45. Does it not appear that the Governors resolved to open such a system of accounts 
 by double entry as I have been speaking of? — It does; but 1 do not wksh to be mistaken 
 in the answer I have already given. The order of the Governors having been given to 
 keep the accounts in a particular way, they should have been so kept ; but I do not mean 
 to say that 1 myself think it essential for the purpose of showing that our funds are properly 
 taken care of, and properly received, and properly disbursed. It was the duty of the 
 registrar or the secretary to have done so ; and if, as I was told this morning, he bad not
 
 24 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 IhiBi.iK. sufficient assistance to do it, he should have applied to the Governors, and that assistance 
 
 would have been granted. 
 
 y iw Governors o/iitr 1964(5. Mr. Scepliens.—Thcn if the accounts have not been kept in accordance with this 
 
 Schools 1 0'lndcd Irj "; . ,. , \, , • • 1 1 • • /■ ii o t xi • 1 ii • 1 • 
 
 Erasmus Smith, E<q. resolutiou 01 thc Board. It 1.S the registrar who is in fault .■' — 1 think ko. ile is the imme- 
 Jubn Uarlow, E?(j. diate officer of the Board, and it is to him, as our principal officer, wc look in case of any 
 irregularity. 
 
 19647. Is it a fact, that the accounts were kept in strict accordance with the resolu- 
 tion of the standing committee of the 2;5rd of November, 1843; and that Mr. Thorp, 
 without any authority eitlicr from yourself, or from the Board, or from the registrar, thought 
 proper to discontinue the system ? — That is thc case, so far as I know ; I can give no other 
 answer but that. I asked Mr. Tiiorp here, this morning, why he had not carried out the 
 resolution of the Board. The answer 1 received did not satisfy me, although 1 am quite 
 sure it was a conscientious answer on the part of Mr. Thorp. Mr. Thorp said he had not 
 time — that his time was so occu])ied otherwise, that he had not time to keep the ledger as 
 the order of the Board required ; and my reply to him was, that that ought to have been 
 mentioned to me, or the Board, and tliat he would have immediately obtained assistance to 
 keep the hooks in this way, or the order would have been rescinded, which it has not been 
 — as I believe. 
 
 19648. The charter of William IV. contemplates an account of the goods and revenues 
 belonging to the Board. Would it be possible to keep such an account as that, unless 
 there was a stock account in thc ledger; I use the word "stock" in the technical sense 
 of the term ? — 1 can answer that, I think. Of course I heard Mr. Thorp yesterday asked 
 several times as to the meaning of the word "assets," and I think Mr. Thorp might have 
 given an easy answer to tliat, which is this: — I think the Governors of the Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools have no assets whatever, unless what are represented by the Southern and , 
 Western estates, and Government stock, which they hold. There are also a few little 
 holdings in Lombard-street and Linenhall street. These are all the assets that I am 
 aware of, but as to taking stock in the sense meant by Mr. Thorp, we have none to take. 
 
 19649. lias the account of the Government funds been kept up '? — It has been kept up 
 in my account. 
 
 19650. Is that a private account? — -It is thc Bank of Ireland that keeps that account. 
 The secretary receives the dividends, he credits them in our pass-book, and they are thus 
 brought into my account. 
 
 19651. I do not see in the accounts of the Board any statement of the present condition 
 of the funded money "? — Our pass-book will show that to you in a moment. Every half- 
 year the secretary receives our dividends, and he mentions in our pass-book the amount of 
 stock, and it is thus brought into my account. 
 
 19652. I saw such entries in the pass-bouk, but 1 cannot treat them as an account in the 
 books of the Governors? — Whether it is in the ledger or not, I do not know. All 1 mean 
 to say is, that on the amount of stock which stands in the name of the Governors of tlie 
 Erasmus Sniitii's Board, the secretary of thc bank receives the half-yearly dividend, and 
 puts that into our pass-book, and I find it in my account. 
 
 19653. A mistake very seldom arises in keeping the accounts of the bank ; but if a mistake 
 were made in tlie stock account i)y the bank clerk, what means would the Governors have 
 of checking the bank account? — 1 should think that my own account is a check. The last 
 half-yearly account i)Ut a sum to the credit of the charity. If we had added to it, I know 
 that. If it stands, as it has done up to April, for instance. 1 receive the three per cent, due 
 upon it. cnrdited to that month. W, between .April and tlie ne.vt ]>eriod for receiving the 
 dividend, tln-re has been no cliangc in our fund, the same sum would a]i])ear in tlie jiass- 
 book ol'tlic bank. Tliey might make a mistake in the bank-book, but still 1 would detect 
 it. 1 do not wish to be understood as opjioscd to another system of book-keeping, because 
 
 ; I really do not feel competent to decide that question. 1 wish to impress particularly on 
 
 the Commissioners, that from the manner in which we have kept our accounts, no loss has 
 resulted, and I think there can be no loss. The item, as regards the Calverstown account 
 struck me yesterday, as being very awkward ; and when 1 saw JMr. Thorp here to-day, of 
 course I asked him about it, and the matter can lie i'ully exjilained as regards the jiounds, 
 shillings, and pence. I was greatly afraid, irom what i\lr. Thoip said, that the Governors 
 had fiufl'ercd a loss of £44 I2s. Gd. I find that it is not the case. 1 find that thc whole 
 matter is, that he lias twice entered this sum, and he has nothing to do but to bring it into 
 the general account of the Governors. In i'act, this money did not belong to us, it was not 
 originally part of the funds of the Erasmus Smiths (liarity, nor do I recollect the name of 
 the gentleman who left it. AMioever lie was, the trustees got tired of it; they wished to 
 plac(! the respon.sibility elsewhere, and translerred that fund to the Governors oi'the Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools. Wc managed it, but I have learned that the account was not separated. 
 There wa.s no loss, however, by reason of that, because wo had it in the general account, 
 and it is only necessary to transfer it back now to our account. 
 
 196.04. lias thc account of the Calverstown estate ever been audited? — It is in our 
 original account, so far as the; western agent receives the rent, and it is brought into our 
 general aci:ount, and .auditi'd by nie. 
 
 196 )5. Has that error crejit into the general accounts? - It has not; for if it had, I should 
 havc! det(^cted it ; and that was the reason I was greatly surprised and very much astonished 
 at what I heard Mr. Thorp state yesterday relative to this account. 1 certainly understood 
 that the money was lost to the Governors. 
 
 19606. If 1 understand aright the only question was, whether this money came into the
 
 EVIDENCE. 25 
 
 account of tlic Calverstown fund, or the c^cnor.al fund of tlic Govornors; I)ut now tlio ])i:iii.in. 
 
 question is whotlier those aceounts ou;;;Iit to he kept separately or not ? — You are in error as , 
 
 respects tiiat, hocausc we have kept the accounts separately, and for tliat reason lodged a sum Srlu'ni'^'inunded hi/' 
 of money wliicli wo believed to he an o<piivalent, to the credit of tliat particular cliarity. It Eranmux Smiili. 7iV/. 
 had Ijcen in Government stock, hut 1 think it is very unimportant wlietlier it is or not. Jolm Harinw. Ehij. 
 
 19()57. The fact bein.o;, you IkuI as much power over the outlay of this ( 'alverstown school 
 fund, as you had over tiie outlay of any of the other charity funds? — Trecisely, and tlierc- 
 fore wo thoufclit it was a matter of very little importance ; hut the Governors tliought it 
 better to keep the accounts separately, and they have done so. 
 
 19658. Have the trustees the power of resuming the management ?— No, it has been 
 absolutely transferred to the Governors. 
 
 19f)59. If it were found that you could he forced to give up that trust, would it not bo 
 necessary to account separately for all the moneys from the commencement? — Certainly. 
 
 19()G0. Do you remember what steps were taken at diflerent times to ascertain the state 
 of the finances of the Board of Governors? — The balance in bank shows it always, and 
 except at the time I mentioned to you that wc overdi-ew our accounts, we had always 
 sufficient funds in bank to meet any liabilities we may incur for making additions to our 
 schools, or the salaries we have to pay, even supposing that our agent mav bo heliind in 
 sending the half-year's rent, or part of tlic half-year's rent. "We have now £7,000, or £8,000 
 in the Government funds. Wc do not wish, if unfortunately there should again fee any 
 pressure in the times, to be placed in the condition wc were before: and we thought it 
 better to liave some money in the funds, as a reserve ; and that fund would be rather increased 
 now, only that the times are not favourable, and that there would be a loss, instead of a 
 gain, by such an investment. 
 
 ]9'J61. You have to consider, when estimating the general condition of the finances of 
 the Board, the debts due and your liabilities; and how were you able to calculate them out 
 of the bank-book ? — Wc have no dcl)ts, except the arrears of rent, and we pretty well knovr 
 how they stand every half-year; and as to our liabilities, they are entirely composed of salaries 
 to masters and to our staff here in Dublin, which is very small, considering the business 
 done — perhaps too small, but that is not our fault. We were never told it was too small. 
 "We are constantly called on, every week almost, for money to repair our schoolhouses. 
 Whenever we can, taking into consideration the state of our affairs, we make grants. We 
 always endeavour to get assistance from a local source — from gentlemen who take an 
 interest in the school. If an estimate comes up for £30, we give £13 or £14, or perhaps 
 more ; according to where the school is we give more or less, but we are always very anxious 
 to get local parties who take an interest in the school to contribute, besides assisting it from 
 our own funds. 
 
 19G62. It appears to me, that no regular balance sheet has ever been struck in a precise 
 and business-like way, indicating the exact state of the finances of the Board ? — I think 
 not, but 1 could tell you in two minutes; for at the close of every Board meeting we know 
 what our balance is. 
 
 iy()63. Would not a ledger be of use in furnishing at anytime the materials for the 
 foundation of such a balance sheet? — I am perfectly aware that a banker or merchant 
 would not he satisfied at all with the manner in which our books are kept, as to book-keeping; 
 but all I wish still to impress is, that for the present purposes of the Governors, our 
 property has been kept quite safe, and has been safely disbursed ; and that we have the 
 materials at any time to put that ledger into perfect order, according to the book-keeping 
 system. 
 
 19664. A ledger is manifestly essential where that is the system. If there was a proper 
 ledger, it would have a])peared what was the condition of the finances of the Governors on 
 the day of the opening of their account? — I am sorry to say it does not, but I know nothing 
 of the matter. 
 
 1966.5. Do you not think it ought to have contained a statement of that condition? — I 
 am quite sure of it, and it was intended it should be so. 
 
 19666. Are you aware that there was no ledger for the three years immediately preced- 
 ing the first date tliat ap])cars in that account of November, 1843? — I do not know there 
 was any ledger kept. Tiie practice has been, since I became connected with the Board, 
 as I have stated to the Commissioners. I know of no other form of accounts whatever; and 
 the accounts in the ledger arc opened with reference to previous accounts, under different 
 headings. 
 
 19067. The accounts in the previous books do not appear to be closed, and the balances 
 are transferred from them to the .several accounts in the ledger. So, in point of fact, it is 
 
 of no use to us, as regards our inquiry into the general finances of the Board ? As to that, if 
 
 I want to look hack to the state of our accounts, from the time Iliad any knowledge of the 
 Board, I should not attempt to look for it iu the ledger, but I would look to the annual 
 accounts of my predecessors, and I am sure 1 would find them correct up to that time. I 
 take them up from that time, and I think they will be found correct to my time. We will 
 show our accounts to any accountant you please, to extract materials from them to form a 
 ledger, say for the last ten or twelve years : and I have no doubt, when this ledger is com- 
 pleted, it will be found that our property has been preserved, as regards pounds, shillings, 
 and pence, as completely as if a ledger had been kept. I want to say, and impress on the 
 Commissioners the fiict, that there has not been the loss of a peimy hitherto, arising from the 
 manner in which our accounts have been kept ; and if I am mistaken in that, of course the 
 Commissioners have the power of emploving those who can show where I am mistaken. 
 
 Vol. II. ■ E
 
 26 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DUBLU). 
 
 7'Ac Goveriuirs of the 
 
 SclwuUfoundetl hif 
 Erasrnu:i Siiiit/t^ Esq. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 19668. Eev. Dr. Graves. — It appears to me tliat the Governors have very much to 
 depend on the great experience, ability, and integrity of the treasm-er whom they have 
 elected : and that these qualities have made up for deficiency in their system of account- 
 keeping. If there was not good reason, as I think there M'as, to depend upon tlie 
 officers of the Board, where would there be adequate means of ascertaining whether the 
 accounts were properly kept, or of checking thein with that facility and clearness so 
 necessary in dealing with accounts ? — Having undertaken the responsibility of the office, I 
 conscientiously feel bound to sec that the money of the Governors is correctly received and 
 disbursed. I think that if you look to the body of men who have the government of this 
 institution, you will find that the property of the charity, notwithstanding the system of 
 keeping the accounts, is perfectly safe. I think, therefore, I am correct in saying there is no 
 want of integrity on their part ; but I do not at all dispute that our mode of keeping the 
 accounts is not such as a banker and merchant, or men of that class, would like. They 
 would rather have them kept in the regular way. 
 
 19669. It appears that at a particular time the finances of the Board were in such a state, 
 that very considerable retrenchment was found necessary ? — Yes. 
 
 19670. And at that time very large sales of stock were made, as appears by the bank 
 account ? — Yes. 
 
 19671. There were very important steps then taken. It appears to me, that had I 
 been one of the Governors, I should have come to such conclusions in a more satisfactory 
 manner, if 1 had before me a business-like statement, showing the exact condition of the 
 funds, on the daj' you were called on to decide questions of this nature ? — You may depend 
 on it, the Governors were quite aware of their situation ; but they preferred, when they 
 could not get their rents, selling the stock, to reducing our poor schoolmasters throughout 
 the country to a lower grade than they were ever obliged to do ; but this pressure did not 
 come on us because we were not aware of our situation. I do not think there was ever a 
 meeting of the Board, that we could not know, and did not know, our exact situation. 
 
 19672. I am not criticising the steps you took in selling the stock ; I have no doubt you 
 took that step, influenced by the soundest judgment ; the only question is whether it would 
 not be more satisfactory, when you had to do those things, to have before you an exact balance 
 sheet. Such an account could be prepared in a few hours from well-kept books ? — That 
 would be the business way, but we preferred to sell our stock to lowering our salaries. If 
 you look to the profit and loss account, you will find that at the time we sold our stock, we 
 sold it at a much higher price than we bought it at; we were not anxious to have a large sum 
 of money in stock; I am not anxious to ho.ud the money of the charity; I think it better 
 to disburse it, so far as it ought to be disbursed. 
 
 1967''3. In speaking of the property of the Governors, you stated that it consists of the 
 landed estates, and the moneys in the funds ; to these heads of property would you not also 
 add another, namely — the property of the Board in the schoolhouses, vested in the Gover- 
 nors? — As long as the schools are in operation they are our property ; but whenever we 
 give up a school, it is not ours ; and if that school could be turned to any other purpose, 
 we have nothing to say to it. The school is only our projjcrty for a particular piirpose, so 
 that as long as we hold the schools we do not allow them to be interfered with; but when 
 the school is closed, and not again resumed, we have no power over that school. 
 
 19674. Was not the school discontinued in the Linenhall-street case, and yet it remains 
 the property of the Governors ?- — The Linenhall-street and the Lombard-street premises 
 were different from the schools I am speaking of, which are those throughout the country. 
 I think the Governors paid rent — I know they did — for the Linenhall-street premises; and 
 of course, as long as we took them ourselves, and paid rent for them, the school was our 
 property. 
 
 1967.5. You would cease to have any property in the counti-y schools, if the instruction 
 in them was discontinued ? — Yes, generally. 
 
 19676. If the Governors struck a school off the roll for the want of attendance, or for 
 other causes which they considered sufficient to dissever the connexion, does the land upon 
 which you built the school remain your property? — As long as we maintain the school, and 
 it is kept in accordance witii our rules and regulations, tlie school is our property ; but 
 as soon as it is closed, it reverts to the original owners, if they built it. 
 
 19677. The Board have expended a considerable sum in building schoolhouses; in these 
 cases was not the land conveyed to the Governors? — The land has always been conveyed 
 to the Governors. 
 
 19678. In perpetuity ? — Yes ; but the class of schools which were given up we never built. 
 We never built a schoolhouse since 1 became a member of the Board, and are very unlikely 
 to do so again. 
 
 19679. Do you know what steps are taken on the occasion of the surrender of a school? 
 — There is the Kathmore school, the property of Lady (Jray's family. That school was closed, 
 and I Ijelievc that the Governors re-conveyed the land to Lady Gray and her family. 
 
 19680. Then in that case they actually surrendered the property which they possessed ? 
 — Yes. 
 
 19681. I will now read for you a minute of the standing committee of November 2Sth, 
 18;j6, which, from your knowledge of the proceedings, you may be enabled to explain :— 
 '• Ordered — -That the registrar write to the master of the Drumbane school, to inquire 
 whotlier measures could be devised to increase the number of scholars ; and to the local 
 Pastor of Iilennervillc school, to know what compensation he would give the Board in the 
 event of their discontinuing the school, and thereby giving him possession of the house ;
 
 EVIDENCE. 27 
 
 also, that two pounds bo given to tlio master in ailtlition to the gratuity ordered by the Dublik. 
 sub-committee ?" — As to the Drunibane school, we liad a great deal of trouble about that. ,, 
 
 19()82. It appears to me from this minute that tlic Board had a recognized property in '^ sclwoh'fmmdcfl i!' 
 this house, for wiiich tlioy were to get compensation in the event of their discontinuing the Erasmus Smith, iCm/. 
 school ?— There may have been something particular connected with that school, of whicli Jolm Biirlow, T'.sq. 
 I know nothing; but, generally speaking. 1 ctrty,in]y never remember a single shilling ever 
 being ])aid back to the Board when they gave up a schooUiouso. 
 
 19083. I find another entry of the same kind, dated iVlay ;5rd, It-'SCi. — "A memorial from 
 the parishioners of Drumaclioso, praying for the continuance of the school in that parish, on 
 the ground (among others) that the schoolhousc had been erected at considerable expense 
 to the parish, being read : ' Ordered — That the prayer of the said memorial cannot l)e complied 
 with, the number of scholars being so small; and tliat the Board, in relinquishing all claims to 
 the schooliiouse, make the parish a present of £300, the sum e.xpended by tliem on its 
 erection ; also, that they now leave tlie school furniture to Mr. Olpherts, to be disposed of 
 if he pleases, for the benefit of the ])arish?' " — 1 was not on the Board at that time, but 1 have 
 no doubt, from the wording of that minute, the meaning was, that the Governors did not 
 think they were getting enough from that district for giving up £300, which it cost to build 
 that schoolhousc, and so making it the property of the parishioners, but I did not gather 
 they could keep it if they pleased. 
 
 196S4. The question that arises upon that is, who was to become the owner of the 
 house? — Whoever the Governors got it from; but I was not on the Board at that time. 
 8hould the Commissioners think it important, I have no doubt, on looking back to our 
 proceedings, the registrar will be able to give some infoi-mation on the subject. 
 
 19685. 1 say for myself, I would be glad to know what arrangements were made when 
 schools were discontinued, and the houses vested in the Governors were surrendered? — I 
 think if you wish to examine our law agent, who has prepared all the deeds and law cases, 
 and who must be acquainted with every part of that department of our business, he will 
 attend you whenever you please. 
 
 19686. Mr. Stephens. — I believe that your knowledge does not extend anterior to 1839 ? 
 — Mr. Fetherston was then agent of the Board, and has been so for many years; and can 
 give you every information, not only on this subject, but also with respect to the ledger ; 
 because 1 have little doubt that this ledger was prepared, if not under his directions, at 
 least imder the directions of some person in his office. 
 
 19C87. Rev. Dr. Graves. — 1 believe I speak the opinion of the Commissioners, when I 
 say that our desire is to understand the general principles and practices of the Board 
 of Governors in such cases as I have been referring to, rather than to get a particular 
 
 statement as to individual cases in the exact terms in which the law agent coxild make it ? 
 
 That is the reason 1 direct attention of the Commissioners to Mr. Fetherston, because, 
 though I cannot give you general information, I am sure he can. 
 
 19688. What are the principal heads of disbursement ? — Our English schools, our classi- 
 cal schools, and certain professorships in Trinity College, and exhibitions — the Blue Coat 
 Hospital, and Christ's Hospital in London. 
 
 19689. The last mentioned payment is made under the charter, and the Governors have 
 no option to refuse it ? — They have not. Then there is an addition to the heads of expen- 
 diture I have mentioned — the stalf of the ofilce; the maintenance of our schools; the 
 requisites and repau's. 
 
 19690. Has the Board to bear expenses connected with the estates, such as are usually 
 borne by landlords ? — Fully. W^e pay our agent the usual per centage, and we also 
 receive his reports when he thinks there should be an allowance made either for loss of 
 crops or cattle, or for improvements. There is very great consideration given to such 
 questions, and the practice is to act liberally towards the tenantry; but not more so. perhaps, 
 than any individual gentleman would, in case he was dealing with his own property. 
 
 1969 1. Are there any payments made for other purposes — I mean, subscriptions towards 
 the support of institutions on the estate? — Very few, indeed ; but we have latterly established 
 a system of subscription, very small in amount, but which we hope soon to have increased. 
 We give a small premium to the pupils who best attend our English schools. We found, 
 at certain terms of the year, spring and autumn for instance, the children were with- 
 drawn for farming purposes; and, being very desirous to have the schools well attended, we 
 have offered a small premium to the children who are most frequent in their attendance, 
 and we have found that it has operated very well. 
 
 19692. That comes strictly under the head of disbursements for English schools — have 
 you made payments towards the maintenance or building of churches, or local objects of 
 that kind? — We never paid a sixpence towai-ds the building of a church. Our registrar 
 states we did; but it was on our property — £10 he states to be the amount; but we are 
 not in the habit of doing it. 
 
 19693. In looking over the books, I think I recollect having noticed small items of that 
 kind, and I asked the question with the view of ascertaining what the general practice was? 
 — It is not our practice. 
 
 19694. Is it the general practice to make payments for any other purposes besides those 
 you have just now enumerated ? — No. 
 
 19695. Some years ago that part of the country in which youi- southern estates lie, was 
 in a very disturbed state, were j'ou then subjected to any expenses arising out of these 
 disturbances, in the way of paying for an increased police force ? — Except so far as our 
 estates were liable, we were not subject to any expense ; but I do not remember we ever 
 
 Vol. II. E 2
 
 28 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COM.MISSION. 
 
 DuBLtK. gave any sum of money for that special purpose. We paid tlie taxes, wliatcver they were, 
 
 but nothing else. 
 
 The Gurcriwrsof (he iQ(^(jQ [ i-emcmber ascertainina; tliat tlie Commissioners of Education, comnionlv called 
 
 schools tiinnilni In/ " 1 !• 1 i 1 •! I !• 1 1 J' ii • " 
 
 Erasmus Smith. /•:s</. the Clare-street Board, were obliged to build pohce barracks on some ot their estates. 
 
 John BarloAv, E*q. Ai'e you aware wliether you were obliged to incur any expense of tliat land '? — Oh, never. 
 I should also state, whenever we have any considerable part of our property to let, wo 
 always have a valuation made of it. The agent acts in the setting of that property, just as 
 you would if you owned the property. Wc direct him to put a fair value for it, and not to 
 go beyond it. 
 
 19697. Are the Icttings advertised? — The western estates are always advertised, but the 
 southern estates are not, for this reason, that for a great many years niiddleraen held large 
 holdings. The late Lord Guillamore, Chief Baron O'Grady, held a very large tract of ground, 
 and we determined to put an end to the system of having middlemen; and, after considerable 
 trouble and annoyance, we did so. We incurred, individually, very great blame from the 
 O'Grady family in wresting the property from them. We endeavoured to get rid of small 
 holders, and the southern estates were not advertised, because we wished to let our agent 
 have the management of enlarging the farms, and endeavouring to set them to the best 
 advantage. 
 
 19698. The settlement of questions of that kind is left in a manner to the standing com- 
 mittee ? — They report to the Board, and give recommendations, but the standing committee 
 does not set the land. 
 
 196'.)9. Does the consideration of this question come before them? — Before the Board; 
 in fact, the standing committee does the business. They have spent many a day in the board- 
 room with the agents and solicitors, with the maps before them, endeavouring to arrange 
 and parcel out the estates, and they are now brought, 1 liope, into good order. 
 
 19700. Chairman. — Inasmuch as no balance-sheet has been prepared since the current 
 ledger was opened, in November, 1843, and as the ledger omits some essential accounts, as, 
 for instance, a stock account, a general account of income and expenditure, an account 
 of each estate belonging to the Governors, an account for each agent of the Board, 
 an account for the law agent, an account of expenditure for law costs, and an account 
 balance, the Commissioners are unable to obtain a precise view of the condition of the 
 Governors accounts. They, therefore, desire, that the Governors will have tlieir accounts 
 stated in books kept according to a proper system of office accounts by double entry, and 
 balanced from half year to half year — from November 1st, 1843, to May 1st, 1855? — The 
 Commissioners will allow us to have a copy of that order. 
 
 19701. Yes. They wish the Governors to have it carried out as soon as possible ? — 
 I will lay it before them at their next meeting ; but I think, from the terms of the order, 
 a considerable time will be required to carry it out. It shall be done, however, as soon 
 as possible. There is an accountant, 1 believe, in the room, and he can bear out my 
 statement. 
 
 19702. \Richard S. Ilickson. Esq., Government Accountant in the service of the Com- 
 mission. — Tlicre is no doubt but it will take some time ; but so much of tiie ledger has 
 been already made up, tliat I think the opening of the accounts, as required, would not take 
 so much time as you might suppose.] 
 
 19703. Your examination is adjourned, Mr. Barlow, for the present. — My Lord, I have 
 perceived by the ])ublic prints that the Commissioners have examined several parties con- 
 nected with our schools ; and from many statements which have been made, as reported, I 
 beg to dissent. On the jiart of the Governors I wisii to say if there is any thing upon 
 which the Commissioners require explanation, they will be most happy to give it to them; 
 and, until such explanation, they would request not to be considered as assenting parties 
 to these statements. 
 
 19704. The Commissioners intend to institute further inquiries into the affairs of the 
 Board of Erasmus Smith, and the Governors will then have an opportunity of giving any 
 explanation or making any statement they may think necessary, as to the evidence which 
 has been given at former inquiries, or as to the investigation wliich has now taken place into 
 the state of tiicir accounts. 
 
 1970.5. }>ir. Stephens- — Mr. Barlow, to what statement do you particularly refer? — I 
 refer to one particular statement made by Dr. Ki^ig, in wiiich he represented he was treated 
 most illiberally by the Board. I am now jirepared to s.ay that, in the opinion of the 
 Governors, lie was most liberally treated. 
 
 19706. Ckairnian. — The Commissioners intend to investigate further the affairs of the 
 Governors, and they will give; due notice when they will rc-^ume the inquiry. 
 
 [For further evidence seepage 119.]
 
 EVIDENCE. 2(1 
 
 Watkkkord, Djx'Ember 11, IsDf). 
 [For evidence iw to Bishop Toy's School, sec Vol. 1., page S61.] 
 
 MiDLETON (Count)' of Cork), December 13 and 14, 1355. 
 [For evidence as to Midleton Endowed School, sec Vol. I., page 914.]
 
 30 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Incorporated 
 
 Society in Dublin for 
 
 promoting Eni/lish 
 
 Protestant Schools 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 T. B. Stoney, Esij. 
 
 Dublin, December 17, 1855. 
 
 Present : — Marquess of Kildare, Chairman ; Rev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, and Dr. 
 
 Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Incorporated Society in Dublin for promoting English Protestant Schools 
 
 IN Ireland. 
 
 Thomas B. Stoner/, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 19707. Chairman. — Are you High Sheriff of the county Tipperary ? — Yes. 
 
 19708. Have you any statement you wish to make respecting the Incorporated Society? 
 — As one holding property under that Society, I may mention their want of liberality as 
 landlords, and as a Board. 
 
 19709. The Commissioners will be happy to receive any statement you wish to make. — 
 I made an application to them to grant assistance to a school that I established on the 
 property, and tliey refused to give me any. 
 
 19710. When was that application made? — Some years ago. 
 
 19711. Have you the application, or the answer to it ? — I have not, my Lord. 
 
 19712. How many years is it since you made this application? — I could not exactly 
 say — perhaps some eight or ten years ago. 
 
 19713. Have you renewed that application since? — No, I have not; but they have more 
 property than what I hold from them in that neighbourhood, and they in no way assist 
 any school, or even any thing of public character. As landlords, they are illiberal; and as 
 a Board, I think they are profligate of- the money at their disposal. So far as I know of 
 their place, it strikes me that their establishment is very expensive. Of course, I know 
 nothing particularly about it, because I believe very little is known by the public. 
 
 19714. Rev. Dr. Graves. — These are very grave charges that you make against the 
 Incorporated Society, and we think you ought to specify more particularly the circum- 
 stances which you think warrant you in charging them with illibcrality in refusing to 
 maintain a particular school in your district. — The school that I had established upon the 
 property was one that they approved of. They inspected it, and gave a grant of old 
 second-hand books, that really it was quite an offence to offer them — they were of no 
 earthly use. They refused to give me any pecuniary assistance; and I consider that their 
 very travelling expenses of going about would he as much as I required from them. 
 
 19715. Where exactly is the school situated? — In the county of Tipperary — the North 
 Riding of Tipperary — near Portumna Bridge, on the river Shannon. 
 
 19716. Do you think, as owners of the property, they were under an obligation to assist 
 you in the maintenance of this school, or as a society established for the purpose of main- 
 taining schools of a particular kind ? — As a society particularly ; but I think, as landlords 
 holding property, I might look to them for assistance ; and during the famine year, and 
 all the distress that occurred in the neigh1)ourhood at that period, tiieir names never 
 appeared as subscribing to any local charity, though drawing their funds from that neigh- 
 bourhood. I think we are entitled to something from them, being a jjublic society. 
 
 19717. Did they simply refuse to assist, without assigning any reason ? — I wrote a letter 
 to the late Archdeacon of Dublin, Torrens. I told him I built a house which cost a good 
 deal of money in the building ; he stated in reply tjiat the society required the site, and if 
 it was granted they would maintain the school. I refused to give my jn-operty in that 
 way. I should not have brought forward any cliarge against the society, but as there was 
 inquiry going to be made into its affairs, I thought it right to mention the matter. I do 
 not think tlicy act very liberally as a society. 
 
 19718. Chairman. — What extent of property have the Incorporated Society in that 
 district? — The rent I pay is not large. I pay a bulk rent of about £1.56 a-year; but they 
 have other property in the neighbourliood. 
 
 19719. Do you know the extent of it? — I could not say. 
 
 19720. Do many children of the direct tenants of the society attend your school? — 
 None at all. The tenants under me attend it ; it was built for their advantage. It is a 
 free school, and is now sujjported by myself 
 
 19721. Do you state that none but tlie cliildrcn of your tenants attend that school? — 
 There may bo others, for the property is extensive. 
 
 19722. The property that you hold? — Yes — something like 1,000 acres; but I have 
 more property that I also hold from them. 
 
 1972:5. Dr. And/ewe. — Is it for 1,GOO acres you pay the £156? — No; that includes 
 property in other townlands wliich are not immediately adjoining. 
 
 19724. I thought you said your rent for this ])ortion of tlio property was about £156? — 
 For what I hold from them ; but then there arc other townlands also in my lease. 
 
 19725. How far arc they separated from the property where you have the school?— Five 
 or six miles. 
 
 19726. Then the children of the tenantry of these townlands derive no advantage from 
 the school ? — No ; it is too far. 
 
 19727. What may be your rent for that portion of the estate? — It is a bulk rent 1 pay 
 the society. 
 
 1972S. Wliat may be the quantity of land in the immediate neighbourliood of tho school ? 
 — 1,60() acres in the immediate noighbomhood ; and they have other property closer, held 
 by others.
 
 EVIDENCE. 31 
 
 1!»7^9. Is there any school upon the adjoining property of the society ?— No ; a school Dublin. 
 
 is needed very much. ^^^^^ hi^u,r<iiv,i 
 
 197:50. Is there any other school on your portion of the property ? — Xo. Sockui hiWiMm for 
 
 19731. And if it were not for your school, the children on your property would be loft prnmoiimj Rmjlish 
 entirely without instruction?— Certainly. " Pn,ie.iaM SrlooU 
 
 19732. And, so far as you know, there is no school upon the adjonmig portion of the ,,, ,5 g ^^_ j,.^, 
 estate? — No, certainly not, nor on any of the property that I know of. 
 
 19733. Is the adjoinin;^ proj)orty held in tlie same manner as yours is — an intermediate 
 landlord witli sub-tenants ? — -Yes. 
 
 19734. Wliat is your own tenure ?— A lease of three lives renewable for ever; and I 
 thought I was very harshly treated wlien \ hxiked for a renewal some time since from the 
 society. I applied to appear before the Board, hut the request was refused, as they said 
 they would not have any one l)efore tlie Board, and that I must write to them through 
 their secretary. The Board, I was told, did not wi.sh to see any one before them. 
 
 19735. Would it not lead to great inconvenience at public boards if they permitted gen- 
 tlemen to come before them and make statements, whicli might lead to discussions: is it not 
 much bettor that communications should be in writing, and answered in writing ? — It might. 
 
 19736. Is it not the practice with most boards to communicate in writing, and give their 
 answers in writing ? — I should tliink it would be a fair thing, in some instances, to make 
 exceptions, if there was reasonable ground for doing so. 
 
 19737. Rev. Dr. Graves. — You used the word profligate in reference to the expenditure : 
 perhaps you do not apply that word in the sense in which it is ordinarily understood ? — I 
 mean it to apply to the e.xpenditure. Their establishment in Aungier-street appears to 
 me to be very large. They keep a secretary, an agent, and a large stall'. Every letter I 
 get from them is written by a clerk, and signed only by the agent. 
 
 1973S. Then, what 1 understand you to mean by the word profligate is, that you con- 
 sider the expenses of the establishment too great, and that they ought to be reduced ? — 
 Certainly ; and why should not 1 complain of their not subscribing towards the school, 
 when they admit themselves it was properly carried on — when they inspected and approved 
 of it ; and then they would not support it even by a small subscription. Such a large 
 establishment as they have appears to me to be monstrous. 
 
 19739- Then your observations with regard to the establishment being unduly expen- 
 sive, and your complaint that tlie Board are profligate of the money at their disposal, 
 meant exactly the same thing ? — ^1 beg your pardon. 
 
 19740. You used the word profligate, and afterwards spoke about the establishment 
 being expensive ? — Yes. 
 
 1974 1 . You think the establishment is more expensive than it ought to be ? — I think so. 
 
 19742. Chairman. — Have you any further observations to address to the Commissioners ? 
 • — No more. 
 
 [For further evidence as to the Incorporated Society, see page 54.] 
 
 Archde.\con Hewitsok's Endowment foe a Protestant School at Swords, Archdcanm 
 
 (in continuation). ,„^,„, ^.^ „ Prales,a,U 
 
 19743. Secretary. — The next case to bring under the notice of the Commissioners is the School <it 5«wdi— 
 case of Archdeacon Hewitson's endowment for a school at Swords. This case was before the 
 Commissioners when they last held courts in Dublin ; and then the Rev. Mr. Howard, Evidence. ""^ 
 Vicar of Swords, was called upon to produce certain documents. His parisli clerk after- 
 wards attended, and produced all the documents required by the Commissioners. These 
 documents are now in Court, and I shall shortly state the substance of them. The first 
 document produced is the original grant or conveyance of the mill at Swords, for the use 
 of the school at Swords, by the Rev. Michael Hewitson. This document bears date the 
 28th day of July, 1719, and is between Michael Hewitson, on the one part, and the Rev. 
 John Wynne, tlie Protestant incumbent of the parish of Swords, county Dublin, of the other 
 part. It witnesseth that he conveyed all that and those the lands whereon the mill stands, 
 then in the possession of Samuel Byass, together with said mill, and all the appurtenances 
 thereof, and all other lands and tenements which the said Byass held, by virtue of any lease 
 or deed made by the said Hewitson to the said Byass within the town or parish of Swords, 
 county of Dublin, to have and to hold the said premises unto the said John Wynne and his 
 successors, vicars of Swords, for ever, for the sole use and support of the schoolmaster 
 licensed by his Grace William, Lord Archbishop of Dublin, and his successors from time 
 to time, for ever, for the parish of Swords ; and the deed is executed by Michael Hewitson 
 and John AVynne. 
 
 19744. The next document I have to bring under the notice of the Commissioners is a 
 map of the economy lands. It bears date June, 1727, and is entitled, " A Survey of Parcels 
 of Land, being the economy lands belonging to the Church of Swords, and also the lands 
 left by Rev. Archdeacon Hewitson for the endowment of the school of Swords, done by the 
 order of a vestry held in the parish church, in the year 172T, which lands were sliowu and 
 meared by Henry Rose, senior. The church lands are in thirty-two parcels, distinguished 
 by numbers, as by the map may appear, and do contain eighty-two acres, one rood, and no 
 perches. The school lands are five parcels, distinguished by letters, and contain two acres, 
 two roods, and thirty-two perches, all of plantation measure. — Henry Roe and Richard 
 
 * Evidence, Vol. I., p. 815.
 
 32 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dunnff. Uniac." Then there is a reference on tlic map. containing the particulars. It begins by 
 
 setting out all the tenants' names ; the frontage, the depth, and the reres of the several 
 
 lleipiZmT'EnHinr. p'ots. Then, after describing all belonging to the economy lands, it goes on to say this 
 
 m,-nt fm- n J'rntc-'iniit reference belongs to tlie school lands. A description of the plots A, B, C, I), E, is given, 
 
 Si-liiMl „i Siionls. together with tlie number of acres, roods, and perches in each plot. It also gives an 
 
 nocumcntsry accurate description of where the lands are situated, and among these plots is mentioned 
 
 a mul and malt-house. 
 
 1!)745. Tlie next document of importance is a survey of the Economy Lands belonging 
 to the churcli of St. Columba, Swords, county of Dublin, made in 1797 by Thomas Shcrrard. 
 The survey is made in six plots, and these si.x plots are then added together, and called 
 "Total of the school lands." The names of the tenants are then set out : — Plot No. 1, James 
 Stewart, slate house, offices, yard, and garden ; 72 feet in front : 1 rood and 5 perches 
 contents. Michael Caffray ; slate house, offices, yard, and I'urdon Cross ; frontage 62 
 feet 6 ; contents. 1 ruod 5 perches. There is this note appended to this plot, but not in 
 the same ink or handwriting as the map : — '' This is not part of the Economy Ground, but 
 is rented to the vicar for the encouragement of spinning." Tlie next plot is. Peter Early ; 
 waste and garden ; 39 feet in front ; 18 perches. The next is, .John Radcliffe ; mill, house, 
 offices, and garden, old and in bad repair; contents, 2 roods and 18 perches. Ne.xt, the 
 same tenant: cabins and gardens and field; contents. 1 acre, 3 roods, and 17 perches. 
 'J'ho next tenants name is James Wilson ; cabin and garden ; 127 feet in front ; contents, 
 1 rood 22 perches. My Lord, on a comparison of the two maps, I find that the five plots, 
 with the exception of the spinning plot, mentioned in this map and survey of 1797, corres- 
 pond exactly with the five plotssct out in tlio old map of 1 727. By the directions of tlieCom- 
 missioners I got a tracing made of this latter map, which was given to Mr. Foster, the 
 gentleman who brought this case under the notice of the Commissioners, and he lias made a 
 return stating the names of the present occupiers of these plots, the annual rent, and other 
 particulars. The first information ho has obtained is, that jilot No. 1 is occupied by Mr. James 
 Brangan, and the rent is payable to Mr. Peebles, Q.c. The next plot is held by Mr. Thomas 
 Lowndes ; the rent £4. payable to the Hon. and the Rev. Mr. Howard. The next plot is lield 
 by Patrick Early and Peter Carey, in foe-simple ; rt'ut payable to Colonel Lewis. The next 
 plot by Mr. Lawrence Cuffe, Dublin ; rent payable to Dr. Molesworth. The next plot is 
 held by JIathew Duif and John Brangan ; rent payable to Mr. Peebles; and the next plot 
 is held by a laboui-er named ]\I'Kennan, who pays rent to Mr. Peebles. 
 
 1974G. Tlio next information I have to lay before the Commissioners is the old vestry 
 book of Swords. 1730 ; and I have looked over this book in a general way to sec whether it 
 disclosed any application of the funds for the purposes of education ; and so far as I can see, 
 there is no account of any portion of the funds having been apjdied to educational purposes. 
 However, if the churchwardens, or other officers who are more familiar with the book, can 
 find out any thing of the kind, they can submit it to the Commissioners. There was an Act 
 of Parliament referred toby Jlr. Howard, at the last inquiry^37th Geo. III., c.44 — by which 
 the vicar had power to lease lands, whether held directly for educational purposes, or whether 
 held, as tiiese economy lands were, for church purposes ; but wherever the vicar leased 
 the lands, and received any rent out of them, there was an account presented to the Arch- 
 bishop of Dublin every year, disclosing the application of the funds. For this reason Mr. 
 Howard was called upon to produce the accounts he rendered with regard to the economy 
 lands of Swords. These accounts have been returned, the first for the year 1810, and there 
 does not ap[)ear in it any entry for educational purposes. The next account is for the year 
 1820; and I have exaTnined it, but there does not a])pear any entry in it for educational 
 purposes. The next account is for the year 18."iO, but I have not so minutely examined it 
 as to state whether it may not contain an entry for the purpose I have referred to ; but if 
 those who had the custody of the documents can find any, they can point it out to the 
 Commissioners, It is onl^- right to say that this information corroborated what is stated 
 in the Peport of the Commissioners of 1807-12. In tluur Thirteenth Pcport. page 290, 
 they state : — " Wo have been fiirnislnMl by the ])resent incundient of Swdrds with a copy 
 of this indenture, which is dated 28th .lulv. 171!), and made by Arciidoacon Hewitson to 
 the Rev. John Wynne, the then incumbent, and his successors for ever." The Commis- 
 sioners then go on to state the document exactly as I have read it, and conclude by 
 saying — " There are no schools at Swords su])ported under cither of these endowments, 
 nor ever have been, in the memory of any one now living." 
 
 19747. The Rev. Mr. Howard has been summoned to give evidence. 
 
 1974^. Cliairman. — 1 have received a lettiM- from .Mr. Howard's brother, in which he 
 States that he is too unwell to attend. He is at present in iMigland. 
 
 19749. Secretary. — The cliurchvvardens have been summoned, my Lord. 
 
 William Trozier.Ksq. WUlinm Crozier, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 197oO. Clinii-mnn. — .\re you at present churchwarden of the parish of Swords? — I am 
 at j)resent chin'chwarden. 
 
 19751. Have yon any knowledge of these lands left by Archdeacon Hewitson ?.^ — None 
 whatever; I never heard of them until the last few days. 1 live at the extreme end of 
 the parish, and can give the Commis.sioners no information respecting these lands. 
 
 197.02. How long \\nvi' you been resident in the parish? — AI)Out two years. I think I 
 was appointf-d churciiw ij-dcn within the last year, but 1 do no more than stand at the j)oor- 
 box on Sunday. 
 
 197'33. Have yoti I ii^dy made any inquiry respecting those lands? — No; I was not at
 
 EVIDENCE. 33 
 
 home wlicii tlio letter came, and 1 could find no person who was alilc to explain any cir- J^t hmn. 
 
 cumstances connected with tlieni since I received the hitter. a ■TT' 
 
 197^4. [Secretari/. — The accounts are produced hy the parish cle-rlc, I)y tlic directions HvirUam''" I'.'iduu--- 
 
 of Mr. Howard. 1 mmt fur a I'mttstatit 
 
 19755. lias tliere been any account of tlio economy lands: passed since you became Sdiou/ ai Su^ordt. 
 churchwarden, tliat you are aware oi? — There was an account passed at a vestry, but 1 ^\'"':i'>i''''"i'.i«T. Iwq. 
 was.not ])resent at the passing of it. 
 
 10756. Did you sec that account? — I signed it as one of the churcliwardens, as my 
 brother churchwarden liad i)een at tlie examination of it. 1 was written to. and I signed 
 it; but I did not know any of the particulars connected witli it. It was scrutinized at tlio 
 vestry. I sliould think. 
 
 19757- [iSecretari/. — A trustee's circular was sent to Mr. Howard, calling on him to 
 furnish an account of the endowment, but he has made no return.] 
 
 19758. Have you any account for the year 1855? — 1 have not. 
 
 19759- Have you any of the ]>apers belonging to the vestry ? — None. 
 
 19760. Has the parisli clerk any of tliem here ? — I am not aware. 
 
 197til. [Have you, Mr. Moiibtt. any of these papers with you ? — Mr. Thomas Moffett. — 
 I have the economy account of 1855. J 
 
 197G2. Secretari/. — As Mr. Howard is not in attendance, in order to show how the case Dorumontary 
 stands, I read the letter addressed to him by the direction of tlio Commissioners: — Evidence. 
 
 " Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 " Dublin Castle, Nov. 1st, 1855. 
 " Sir, — T am directed by her Majesty's Commissioners for Inquiring into Endowed 
 Schools in Ireland to inform you tliat the following is a list of the books and documents 
 relative to the school at Swords endowed by Archdeacon Hewitson, required by them : — • 
 The Vestry Book of 1738 and 1739. 
 Copy of the Indenture of 28tli of July, 1719, from Archdeacon Hewitson to the 
 
 llev. John Wynne and his successors. 
 A Map of the lands vested in tlie incumbent in trust for the parish of Swords. 
 Copies of the accounts furnished by the incumlicnts of Swords, under the j)rovision8 
 of the .•57th Geo. III., ch. 44, forthe years 1810, 1S20, 1830, 1840, 1850, and 1854, 
 respectively. 
 And all other documents relating to such subjects. 
 
 " I have the honour to bo, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 (Signed), " W. NiiiLso.x Hancock, Secretary." 
 
 19763. The last account for 1851 gives the rent-roll of the Swords Parish Estate, but I 
 do not find in it the name of Mr. Thomas Lowndes, wliich Mr. Foster has returned as 
 paying £i to Mr Howard ; and 1 do not find in tiie expenditure account any sum of money 
 applied to the purposes of education. 
 
 Jlr. Thomas Lowndes sworn and examined. Mr.Tlion^asLownae.. 
 
 19764. Cliairman. — Do you reside at Swords? — I do, my Lord. 
 
 19765. Do you hold any land tliere under the vicar? — I do; house property. 
 
 19766. To what extent? — It stands upon six or seven perches. 
 
 19767. Has it any name? — Not that I know of, my Lord. I have a lease of it. 
 
 19768. Can you produce the lease ? — Tliis is it. [Document is handed in.] 
 
 19769 \^Secri'tarii.—'V\\c original lease handed in by tlie witness bears date 29th day of 
 March, 1810. and is Ijetweon the llev. .Tames Verschoyle. vicar of Swords, on the one 
 part, and Michael Caflrey on the otlier, by which he (the said Verschoyle), demised, granted, 
 set, all that house and tenement in Swords, wherein Nathaniel Doran lately lived, and 
 then in the possession of said Michael CaftVey, or his undertenant, bounded on the 
 west by the street of Swords, on the north by the house where Francis Makens lived, on 
 the east by tlic bouse and garden of Samuel Eagle, and on the south by the house of Mr. 
 Edward Price, situate and being in the town of Swords, in the county of Dublin, yielding 
 and paying the yearly rent of £5 13.9. 9rf., to be paid by two even and equal payments on 
 every first day of November, and first day of May. This document is signed by James 
 Verschoyle, and JMichael Cafi'rey. 
 
 19770. The other lease handed in by the witness bears date 17th June, 1854, between 
 the Hon. and Key. Francis Ho\vard, on the one part, and Thomas Lowndes, on the other 
 part ; and the tenure is, all that house and tenement in Swords, wherein Michael Cafi'rey 
 lately lived, and then in the possession of the said Thomas Lowndes, or his undertenants, 
 boimded on the west by the street of Swords, on the north by the house where Francis 
 Makens lived, on the east by the house and garden of Samuel Eagle, and on the south by 
 the house of Edward Price, situate and being in the town of Swords, to have and to hold 
 the said demised premises, during the term of forty-one years, thenceforth, to be fuUy 
 completed and ended, yielding and paying therefor and thereout, the yearly rent of i4 
 sterling, during tlie said term. Tliat period of forty-one years is the period required by 
 the Act of Parliament, the 37th Geo. 111., chap. 44, entitled an Act for the Preservation 
 of Estates belonging to Parishes — '■ That it shall and maj' be la\yful to and for every 
 incumbent of any parish in this kingdom, who is or shall be seized of any estate in lands, 
 tenements, or hereditaments, in fee simple to him and his successors in trust for such 
 parish, to let and demise the said estate, or any part and i)arcel thereof, for any term of 
 
 Vol. II. "F
 
 34 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. years, not exceeding forty-one years, with the consent of the ordinary of the diocese, and 
 
 ^ "rr* of the majority of the Protestant parishioners of such parish in vestry assembled. This 
 
 Hewitson's Endow- lease is witnessed by Thomas Moft'ett, parish clerk, and executed by ilr. Lowndes.] 
 meiu for a Protestant 19771. Dr. Andrews. — Could you, on looking at the map, tell on what part of it your 
 
 School at S,cords. premises lie ?— I think I could. 
 Ur.ThomtisLowiKlos. 19770. Will you find it out, if you please ?— [5Iap handed to witness.] 
 
 19773. [Sccretari/.—lIe identifies his, with the plot marked No. 2, on the map of 1797.] 
 
 19774. Wlion did you get posses.sion of Caffrey's interest? — I think in 1850 ; I paid rent 
 to the executors of the late Mr. Caffrey; and when the lease fell in, in 1850, I then got 
 possession of it all. 
 
 19775. To whom have you paid rent since ? — Mr. Howard. 
 
 19776. Into whose hands did you pay the rent? — Into Mr. MofTett's hands ; I have his 
 receipts here. 
 
 19777. Will you be so good as to hand them in? — I will. 
 
 19778. \_Secretary. — The first of these receipts bears date the 1st of May, 1855, and is 
 signed Thomas SIofFett. It is in the following terms : — " lleceived from Mr. Thomas 
 Lowndes, the sum of £2 sterling, being the amount of half a-year's rent, due to the Hon. 
 and Rev. F. Howard, out of his holding in Swords, due and ending the 1st day of May, 
 1855. Received this 1st. first, day of May, 1855, five." 
 
 19779. The next receipt bears date the 1st of November, 1855, and signed Thomas 
 Moflfett. " Received from Tliomas Lowndes, the sum of £2 sterling, being the amount of 
 half a-year's rent, due to the Hon. and Rev. F. Howard, out of his holding in Swords, (late 
 Caffrey), due and ending the 1st day of November, 1855. Received this 3rd day of 
 December, 1855, five."] 
 
 19780. You say you jjaid rent to the executors of Caffrey; what was the name of the 
 person to whom you paid it? — Mr. M'Cann. 
 
 19781. Is he still alive?— He is dead. 
 
 19782. Did he reside at Swords?— He did, 
 
 19783. What was his Christian name ? — John. He carried on the baking business. 
 
 19784. Had you lived in Swords before you got Caffrey's premises ? — I had. 
 
 19785. How long have you resided there? — I was born there. 
 
 19780. Do you know any thing about this lot further than by looking to that map ? — 
 Oh, nothing more. 
 
 19787. The house was partly slated, and partly thatched ; did you hear that the slated 
 part of the house was built for a factory ? — 1 have heard that. 
 
 19788. From its construction, would the slated part be suited for a factory ? — Well, I 
 do not know that it would. 
 
 19789. What kind of factory was it ? — I do not know. 
 
 19790. Does there appear to be any place for machinery ? — No ; there has been business 
 carried on in it for a number of years past. 
 
 19791. What kind of business ? — Public business. 
 
 19792. What do you mean by public business? — Up to the time I got it. 
 
 19793. Do you mean a public house ? — Yes, selling porter and spirits. 
 
 19794. Take the farthest period that you remember, and could you tell what the house 
 was used for ? — A public house. 
 
 19795. As long as you remember it has been used as a public house ? — Yes. 
 
 1979G. \_Secretary. — It appears that these lands, which by the map were vested in the 
 vicar of Swords in trust for scholastic purposes, were leased for forty-one years, under the 
 provisions of the Act of Parliament which I have just read.] 
 
 Mr. James Brainran. Mr, James Brangan sworn and examined. 
 
 19797. Chairman. — Do you reside at Swords? — I do, my Lord. 
 
 19798. Do you hold any land there under the vicar? — I do, in the neighbourhood of Swords. 
 
 19799. Under whom do you hold any ])art of Swords ? — I hold under Sir Thomas Staples, 
 Dr. Moloswortli, and Dr. Wynne. 
 
 19800. Do you hold any land under Mr. Peebles? — I do not, my Lord ; but my family 
 paid him rent for a long time, for the holding which they formerly paid rent to Lord 
 Talbot for, before Mr. Peebles purchased the interest. 
 
 19801. Dr. Andrews. — Have you the lease of that land? — I have not the lease, but I 
 dare say the document is with some family papers tliat I have not seen. I merely pay 
 the rent ; it is an elder brother of mine that is entitled to any emoluments derived from 
 it at present. 
 
 19802. Where does your elder brother live ? — He lives with me at Swords. 
 
 19803. Is he present? — No he is not; he does not take an active part in matters of 
 business ; ho is merely living with me, and I transact his business. 
 
 19K04. What is his Christian name? — His name is Thomas; he is merely entitled to a 
 ])rofit rent, under my father's will. 
 
 Iii805. Have you the lease of the lands? — I believe my family has a lease or assign- 
 ment. 
 
 1980(5. Have you ever seen it ? — I have not. 
 _ 19807. Did you over search for it? — I have not since. 
 
 19808. Wiiat do you mean by since ? — It is another brother of mine holds these papers. 
 
 19809. VVIiat is the name of your Iirother who holds these papers? — Lawrence. 
 
 19810. Where docs he reside ?— lu Dubhn.
 
 EVIDENCE. 35 
 
 19811. Wlicrc in Dul)lin? — Nortli King-street — beside Mr. Pagan's seed shop. DnnuN-." 
 
 19812. Docs lie reside at Swords sometimes? — No, he princii)ally resides there; but he 
 
 has a country place, where Jie occatriionally resides witii liis family. Hcwi^son»'Endow- 
 
 19813. Where is tliat ?• — It is at tlie foot of the mountains, whore Mr. Egan has a place, ment fi,r « Protestant 
 
 19814. Near wliat town or village is it ? — 1 think North King-street. School at Swordn. 
 
 19815. But where is this country place you speak of? — 1 do not exactly know the name ^^^- Jnines Brangan. 
 of tlio ])]ace. 
 
 1981(i. If you were going to direct a letter to him, wlicre would you direct it? — Mr. 
 Egan's, North King-street. 
 
 19817. Supposing you were going to direct it to his country phice, wliere would you 
 direct it? — 1 would say, send it to Nortii King-street, and it would find him. 
 
 19818. <'an you tell what town is near this country place? — I cannot. 
 
 19819- Wliat way do you go to it? — 1 think you go along the liathmines-road. 
 
 19820. IIow far do you go along the Kathmines-road ? — I think the omnibus leaves you 
 within a couplii of miles of it. 
 
 19821. What jilace do you pass by besides Rathmines? — I really do not know ; I was 
 never there l)ut once. 
 
 19822. Upon your oath you cannot tell me the rame of the town nearest to -which that 
 place is ? — 1 have not been there 
 
 19823. Whether you were tiicrc or not. can you tell the name of the town nearest to Mr. 
 Egan's country place ? — I could not ; if I wanted to see him, or communicate with him, I 
 "would go to North King-street. 
 
 19824. Lawrence has the family papers ?— I should say he has. 
 1982'>. Is your brother Thomas your eldest brother? — He is. 
 
 19826. Under what instrument does your brotlier hold ? — I think under my father's will. 
 
 19827. Have you a copy of that ? — 1 have not. 
 
 19828. Is your elder brother Thomas unable to attend ? — I should say he is. 
 
 19829. Is he incapable of managing his own property? — Well, I should say he is not 
 very capable of doing so. 
 
 19830. But is lie incapable ? — I should say he is; but it is a question of doubt whether 
 he might or might not be able to manage his property ; he lives with me. 
 
 19831. ^Vould he be able, so far as his health is concerned, to attend the Commissioners 
 here ? — He would. 
 
 19S32. Have you. or had you ever, any of these family papers in your possession? — I am 
 not aware tliat I had. 
 
 19833. To whom do you pay rent?— I pay rent to Counsellor Peebles. 
 
 19834. Did you got receipts from him? — I did. 
 
 19835. Where are tliose receipts? — 1 have one here. [Document is handed in.] 
 
 19836. \_Sec7'etar>/. — This receipt, handed in by the witness, is dated the 16tli of January, 
 1855 ; signed, James Peebles. — " Received from James Erangan, Esq., £11 45. lO^d., being 
 the balance of one year's rent of his holding in .Swords, due and ending 1st November, 1854, 
 after deducting poor rates, at Is. 2rf. per pound."] 
 
 19.S37- Have you any otlier receipts ? — That is the last receipt ; but I have others which 
 I did not think it necessary to bring. They are similar to that, I sliould say. 
 
 19838. You do not remember any difference between the form of the other receipts and 
 the one you have handed in ? — None. 
 
 19839. But you have other receipts in your possession? — I have. 
 
 19840. "Will you look to the map, and point out, if you can, on what part of it the 
 premises you liokl lie? — [Witness points out premises to the Secretary.] 
 
 19811. ISecretari/. — The witness's premises are marked No. 1 on the map of 1797, and 
 there described, " Part of the school-lands, in the possession of James Stewart — Slated 
 house, offices, yard, and garden — one rood, five perches." That is portion of the holding.] 
 
 19842. Who do you say made the lease under which your fiimijy holds? — I think they 
 derived under Lord Talbot. Whether by assignment of a lease, or a lease, I cannot 
 
 exactly say. • 
 
 19843. What is the term in the lease ? — I am not aware. I never heard. 
 
 19844. Has your brother Tliomas any lease or instrument in his possession at all? — 
 He has not ; he does not attend to any business. 
 
 19845. Then your brother Lawrence has the document? — I should say it is in his 
 possession. 
 
 19846. Do you divide the rents with your brother Thomas, in place of Lawrence? — I 
 have already told you he lives with me. I support him and take care of him. 
 
 19S47. Does your brother Lawrence get any portion? — I am not aware that he does. It 
 is only a small thing. 
 
 19848. Have you never seen a copy of your fothcr's will?— I could not saj' I did. 
 
 19849. Could you say you did not ?— I think I could. 
 
 19850. How long is "your fiither dead? — I cannot say I recollect him. Ho died when 
 I was a child. 
 
 19851. How long is he dead ? — I cannot say. 
 
 19852. Is lie dead forty years ? — He is, I should say. 
 
 19853. Is he dead fifty years? — Well, I could not say. 
 
 19854. How long have you paid the rent to Mr. Peebles, or to any person ? — Mr. Peebles 
 is in possession about si.x or seven years; but I cannot exactly tell how long. Ten years or so. 
 
 19855. Have you paid the rent to Mr. Peebles during the whole of that time ? — I should 
 Vol. XL F2
 
 36 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ddblik. 
 
 Arrhficaron 
 
 JJctcifson's Endoiv- 
 
 niriU for a Pfotf\[ant 
 
 School at Su-orHx. 
 
 Mr. Jamf? Bningan. 
 
 Mr. I'atrick Earl v. 
 
 say no ; but, probably, my brotber Lawrence migbt bave ])aicl some in tbe commencement ; 
 but, between us, it bas been paid since be came into ])osscssiou. 
 
 19856. To wbom was tbe rent paid previously? — To Lord Talbot's agent, Mr. BaH. 
 
 19857. Do you know to whom tbe rent was paid ])reviou8 to tbat ? — i am not aware. 
 
 19858. Have you any of the receipts tbat Lord Talbot, or bis agent, gave you ?— 1 tbink 
 I have. 
 
 18859. [Secretary. — Tliis witness identifies tbe plot marked A, upon tbe map of 1727, as 
 bis premises.] 
 
 Mr. Patrick Early sworn and examined. 
 
 198G0. Clialrman. — You reside at Swords? — I do. 
 198G1. Do you bold any land there? — I do hold land. 
 
 19862. How much ? — Three acres and a half. 
 
 19863. [Secretary. — Do you bold tbat small plot of ground, marked No. 3 on this map 
 of 1797? — 1 bold tlic small house I live in, fronting tbe street. Peter Carey lives ne.\t 
 door to me.] 
 
 19864. Are tbe mill premises at tbe back of your place? — Tlicy are ; tb.e mill is not 
 immediately behind, it goes round as you go over tlie green. 
 
 19865. To whom do you pay for those premises?—! never paid any rent. 
 
 19S66. How long bave you been living there?— I was born in the concern, and bave 
 been carrying on business for tliirty years in it. I am a carpenter by trade. 
 
 19867. Do you hold it under your father's will? — I do. \Vben my father died, we left 
 off paying rent. All tliose concerns were old stables, and be walled in a small part for a 
 house, and built the small place that 1 live in. 
 
 19868. Have you a copy of your father's will ?— I liave not. 
 
 19869. Dr. Andrews. — Did your father pay any rent for those premises? — I was never 
 asked to pay any rent to any one while I lived in it. 
 
 19870. To wbom did ho pay rent for a time? — My brother paid rent to Colonel Lewis. 
 19S71. Was that for any portion of tliesc lands we are inquiring about ? — 1 do not know. 
 
 19872. Could you describe where your brother's premises lie on that maj) ? — I could not 
 say ; the concerns are all joined, and were all in my father's possession until be died, and 
 then be made a division. 
 
 19873. How long bad your brotber been paying rent to Colonel Lewis? — I cannot say 
 the length of time. 
 
 19874. About bow long? — Upwards of thirty years. 
 
 19875. What was your brother's name ?— Peter Early. 
 
 19876. Who holds his portion of tbe premises ? — His children and wife. 
 
 19877. Do they still pay rent to Colonel Lewis? — They do. 
 
 19878. Are your brother Peter's premises and yours together ? — They are all in tbe 
 same range. 
 
 19879. From whom did your father get them ? — 1 tliink it was tbe Cramers. 
 
 19880. What was tlic name of ]\Ir. Cramer? — I cannot say. 
 
 19881. Did he pay tlie entire rent to Cramer? — At lirst, I tbink be did, before Lewis 
 came in. 
 
 19882. That is, Cramer held before Lewis; tbat is what you mean ? — Yes. 
 
 19883. Your father came in under Cramer, and afterwards held under Lewis? — Lewis 
 came on it in place of Cramer, and then be paid rent to Lewis. 
 
 19884. Have you seen any of the receipts that were 
 bave seen them in my brother's band, but that is all. 
 
 19S85. Do you reni(!niljer was the rent apportioned under your father's will ; did your 
 brotber pay rent for the whole premises '/' — 1 do not know tiiat. 
 
 1 9886. How came your brotlier to pay tbe rent for tlie whole promises ? — We all stopped 
 in tbe bouse until my brotlier came in, and then tbe house and the adjoining old stables were 
 divided ; part was left with me, and j)art with my sister, and we built the small bouse in 
 which wo live. 
 
 19887. Was it by agreement amongst yourselves?— Py my father's will. 
 
 198H8. Under your i'atlier's will be became liable to ]iay the entire rent'/ — I never knew 
 any rent to be paid, except what was ])aid to Lewis. 
 
 19889. Did not your father ])ay rent to Cramer? — He did. 
 
 19890. On your father's death, your brother paid rent for tbe ])remisc8 to Cramer, in bis 
 lifetime, and ait(n-wards to Mr. Lewis? — Yes. 
 
 19891. Do you know who was the executor of your father's will ? — My brotber and my 
 brother-in-law. 
 
 19H92. Did you ever see a copy of your father's will'? — 1 have not any j^apcr. 
 
 19893. Do you remember seeing a copy of if? — I do not. 
 
 19894. Do you know where the probate of the will is at present? — I do not. 
 
 19«95. Do you know whether it was ])roved in the Prerogative Court, or in the Consis- 
 torial Court, or wbotbcr it was ])r(ive(l at all? — It was never proved. 
 
 19896. When did you see your fatlier's will last'?- I bave seen it with my brother, and 
 I bave a small ])art of it myself; it was torn. 
 
 19897. Was there any copy made oi any part of it? — No. 
 
 19898. Where is the part you got? — 1 li.ave it at home. 
 
 19899. ^Vby did you not bring it? — 1 did not think there would bo any occasion for it. 
 
 19900. Were you not asked to bring all tbe pa]i(nK with you? — It was only this morning. 
 
 given by Cramer and Lewis? — I
 
 EVIDENCE. 37 
 
 19901. Do you know wlioro the otlier bit of it is? — I do not. Ptmi.iN. 
 
 19902. Was there any law between you and the family after your father's death? — , — — 
 Iherc! was a little dispute. _ ... IIewit»m\ Endow- 
 
 19903. VVlio was jour attorney on that occasion? — I had nothing to do witli it. It was mcntfnra PrnUsiimt 
 my brother and sister had a little dispute. SrlwoUt Sword.. 
 
 "19904. Wlien was the dis]jute settled ?— It was made up. ^^'- I'atrick Early. 
 
 19905. Did they go into any court? — I believe they bad a little law. 
 19900. Wliat court diil they go to ? — It was never tried out. 
 
 19907. What court did tiiey begin to try it in? — I believe at Kihiiainham. 
 
 19908. Was there an ejectment?—! believe there was something about it. I forget the 
 whole matter now. 
 
 1990!*. Will you tell us wlio was the claimant in the ejectment? — Jly brotlier J*eter. 
 
 19910. Did lie get tlio land that he claimed? — No, he did not. 
 
 19911. Then your sister lield it? — Yes, slie lield |)art of it. 
 
 19912. Were you present at Ivihnainhaiii? — 1 was not. 
 
 199115. Do you remember your father's will being produced? — I was not there. 
 
 Mr. Peter Carey s^vorn and examined. Mr. Peter Carey. 
 
 19914. Chairman. — Do you live at Swords? — Yes. 
 
 19915. Do you hold any land tliere ? — 1 do. 
 19910. I low much ? — Hotter tlian four acres. 
 
 19917. Do you hold any land beside the mill? — Yes, 
 
 19918. You are the brotlier-in-law of Karly ? — 1 am his nephew. 
 
 19919. To whom do you pay rent for the lot you hold ? — I do not pay any. 
 
 19920. Do you liold it under your uncle's will? — Under my mothers. 
 
 19921. Dr. Andrcivs. — Your motlier lield it under the will" of her father's mother? — It 
 was under lier grandmotlier's will my mother held it. 
 
 19922. Did Peter Early hold one 'part?— Deter Early was my grandfather. 
 1992o. Had you not an uncle Deter? — A brother-in-law. 
 
 19'.t24. Had you an uncle Peter, and brother-in-law named Peter? — Yes. 
 
 19925. Then you had an uncle Peter? — Y'es. and my grandfather's name was Peter. 
 
 1992G. Your "uncle Peter held portion of those lands which you now hold?— No; I 
 heard my mother saying, in the lifetime of my uncle, that they had nothing to do with 
 these premises at all. 
 
 19927. To whom did your uncle Peter pay rent? — He paid rent to Mr. Lewis for his 
 own part. 
 
 1992S. Did you ever see your grandfather's will? — No. 
 
 19929. Or any copy of it? — Never, to my knowledge. 
 
 19930. Did you ever soe anj^ part of it? — No. 
 
 19931. Do not the four acres that you hold lie convenient to the three acres and two 
 roods that your uncle Peter held ? — They join it. 
 
 19932. Are they not closely adjoiningtlie portion of the land your uncle Peter held? — 
 Oh, no, not the lots ; the houses where we live adjoin. 
 
 19933. Your uncle Peter held a house close to that your uncle Patrick now holds, 
 and to that your mother held in her lifetime ?^We all live ne.xt door to each other. 
 
 19934. Ail these lots arc together? — The land is not in the town. 
 
 19935. Wliat land? — The land we hold, the four acres and two perches. 
 1993G. AVhere does the land he? — On tlie liatldjeale-road. 
 
 19937. Who pays rent for that ?— We have a lease of that. 
 
 19938. Then your uncle Peter held a portion of the house that is in the town ? — No ; 
 1 never heard of any other premises except what my uncle Patrick and I hold. 
 
 19939. Did not Peter live in a house clo.sc beside yoiu- uncle Patrick? — He lived ne.xt 
 door to my uncle Patrick, and I live ne.xt door to him. 
 
 19940. Did your uncle Peter pay rent for this house to the Lewises ? — For his own pre- 
 mises he did, where he lived himself. 
 
 19941. Do you mean that the portion for which he paid rent was that which lies between 
 your uncle Patrick's property and your mother's property? — He paid rent for what he held 
 himself. 
 
 19942. That is tlie portion which lies between your uncle's house and your mother's 
 house ? — Tlicy both join. 
 
 19943. Did you ever see any of tliose receipts that your uncle Peter got for the payment 
 of rent to Colonel Lewis? — No. 
 
 19944. Did you ever hear your uncle Peter say he held his part of the house under any 
 lease ? — Yes ; I always heard it. 
 
 19945. He had a lease tliat he paid rent to Colonel Lewis under? — I always heard he 
 was to get a new lease at the time ho died ; but I do not think his widow ever got the 
 lease since. 
 
 19946. Was he to got a lease of the house ? — Y'es. 
 
 19947. Could Colonel Lewis have turned him out? — 1 cannot say. 
 
 19948. ^Yas there a lease against Colonel Lewis, or was there a lease that Colonel 
 Lewis was to have executed ? — I do not know about the particulars. I heard that my 
 uncle paid some money for the lease, and that when the old lease was out he was to get a 
 new one. 
 
 • 19949. To whom did he pay the money ? — Mr. Lewis,
 
 38 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Archdeacon 
 Uewitson's Endow- 
 ment for a Protestant 
 School at Swords. 
 
 Mr. R, M'Keman. 
 
 James Peebles. Esq. 
 
 Mr. Robert M'Keman sworn and examined. 
 
 19950. [Secretary. — Plot No. 6, on the map of 1797, lias been identified by this witness 
 as his holding.] 
 
 19951. Chairman. — To whom do you pay rent for lot No. 6? — I have paid the rent, 
 since my mother's death, to Mr. Peebles. 
 
 1995"2. Do you hold the same lot that your mother held ? — Yes. 
 
 19953. How long is your mother dead ? — Twelve months last 14th of August. 
 
 19954. Are you the grandson of James Wilson, who held that lot marked No. 6 on the 
 map of 1797 ? — Yes. 
 
 19955. Have you any lease of that lot? — Not that I know of. I believe there is an old 
 lease, but I have not seen it. 
 
 19956. Do you believe the lease has expired? — Yes. 
 
 19957. Have you any receipts ? — I could not get my mother's late receipt, but I have 
 got one receipt. [Document is handed in.] 
 
 19958. Secretary. — [The receipt handed in by the witness is signed by Mr. James 
 Peebles, the 1st of December, 1851, and is in the following terms : — " Jane 5l'Kernan has 
 paid me, for Wilson's holding in Swords, three pounds thirteen shilhngs and tenpence, 
 being for one year's rent due 1st November, 1851, fifty-one.''] 
 
 James Peebles, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 19959. Cliairman. — Does James Brangan pay rent to you ? — James Brangan has paid 
 rent latterly, but he always said he was not the lessee or representative of the lessee ; he 
 said his brother was. 
 
 19960. Do you mean that the land is held under a lease ? — Yes, held under a lease, as I 
 recollect, for tlirec lives renewable for ever. 
 
 199G1. By whom was that lease made ? — I do not recollect ; but I rather think by the 
 late Lord Talbot. 
 
 19962. Have you got that lease? — I have it at home. 
 
 19963. Why have you not got it with you? — I got no notice to produce it, except the 
 general summons to attend and give evidence about Archdeacon Ilewitson's land ; but I 
 never heard of these lands before, until I beard of them at this examination. 
 
 19964. Does Mr. M'Kernan pay rent to you ? — This man never paidany; but his mother 
 did. I think there is more than two years' rent due. 
 
 19965. He had no lease? — No. I always understood Mrs. M'Kernan's father's name 
 was Wilson ; and, therefore, I call it Wilson's tenement. Though she was married to 
 M'Kernan, she went under her maiden name. They asked me some years ago to give them 
 a lease of the place, as they represented they wanted to build on it ; but I said they should 
 satisfy mo of the kind of building they were going to make, before 1 made them a lease. 
 I never lieard of any lease ; tlicy always claimed as tenants from year to year. 
 
 19966. Have you tliese lots in fee-simple? — 1 always understood my holding was in fee- 
 simple. 
 
 19967. Dr. Andrews. — Do you pay any rent to any person for them? — ^No. I am in 
 possession now about twenty years. I think it was in the year 1835 I purchased. 
 
 19968. From wliom did you purchase? — A person named Philips. 
 199C9. What was his Christian name? — I do not recollect. 
 
 19970. Have you the title-deed? — I have ; and Lord Talbot joined in the conveyance 
 to me. 
 
 1997 1 . Was it Lord Talbot that made the lease which Brangan accepted ? — I rather think 
 80 ; I am merely sjicaking from recollection. 
 
 9972. Have you the lease that was made to him ? — 1 am sure I have. 
 
 19973. It is about twenty years, you say, since yon ])urchascd ? — About twenty years. 
 
 19974. Do you receive rents ironi any otlier property ?— Yes, I do. 
 
 19975. From what besides ? — From one of the luills at Swords. There are two mills at 
 Swords ; I receive rent out of one of them. 
 
 1997fl Who is tlie tenant":' — The lessee of the mill, when I got it, was Terence O'Neil; 
 then it came, some way or other, into the hands of his daugliter, I think, as deviiiec under 
 his will. 
 
 19D77. L^'nder what lease did Terence O'Neil hold ? — I think the lease is for a term of 
 sixty-one years, fourteen or fifteen years of wiiich are to come yet. 
 
 19978. By whom was it executed? — Well, 1 cannot say; but 1 rather think it was by 
 Lord Talliot. 
 
 19979. Have you a counterpart of that lease? — Yes, I have. 
 
 19980. Do you receive rent for any oilier portion of land ? — No. 
 
 198s 1. Do you j)ay head-rent to any person? — No; because 1 always understood I 
 bought it in fee-simple. 
 
 19982. Do you know the situation of the lands? — I could find part of them, if I were 
 in the town. 
 
 19983. Could you find them out, on looking to the map? — I never saw a map of the 
 premises until today ; it adjoins the ball-court, in Swords ; I could not identify the lands 
 on the map. 
 
 19984. [Secretary . — The mill promises are marked No. 4.] 
 
 19985. Who is Mr. Pliilips?— I could not remember; 1 never looked at the title-deeds 
 since 1 purclmscd. 
 
 19986. Will they describe him ? — I Hupjiosc so. He purported to hold as tenant-in-tail;
 
 EVIDENCE. 39 
 
 and barred the tail before I purchased it. lie lived some place in ICngland, but I do not Dublin. 
 
 know where. I hope Mr. Foster lias as good a title to his property, as we have to ours. AtM^acoH 
 
 19987. Were the title-deeds handed over to you ? — Yes. iieunuotin Endow- 
 
 19988. Have you tlieui all?— Yes. mmtfar a Protestant 
 
 19989. Have vou copies of thorn ?_I have not. '^''""'' "' '^'"""■'''• 
 
 19990. Would you have any oiyection to allow us to take e.xtracts from them, if wo take '^*'°*' Teebles, Esq. 
 care th(!y shall not be injurcul ? — I would rather not ; I am perfectly satisfied that the school 
 
 lands are not named; but I do not tliiiik it prudent for me to part with my title-deeds. 
 
 19991. Have you any objection to produce them for inspection? — I should rather not 
 do so. 
 
 19992. But do you say no to my question? — T do say no. If you have tlie power to 
 compel me to give up the deed.s, I will do so ; but unless you have such a power, it would 
 be an imprudent thing for any man to hand up his title-deeds. 1 have not the slightest 
 object in refusing them, e.Nccpt as a matter of prudence. 
 
 19993. Are you aware there is difference between charity lands and other lands? Yes, 
 
 if I know they were, but 1 have not the slightest reason to suppose they are so. 
 
 19994. There is evidence to show that at one period tliey were so? — Something was 
 said here to-day to that effect, but I have no reason to suppose so ; I never even heard an 
 insinuation of the kind, and when I got the summons 1 thought it was about the school of 
 Swords, because I visited it once, seven or eight years ago. 
 
 19995. We postpone your further examination for the present. 
 
 Mr. Lawrence Cuffe sworn and examined. Mr. Lawrend- ("ufte. 
 
 19996. Chairman. — Do you live at Swords? — I live at Sraithficld,and at other times on 
 the Leinster road. 
 
 19997. Have you ever lived at Swords ? — I have. 
 
 19998. Do you hold land at Swords? — I do, my Lord. 
 
 19999. Can you identify it u])ori that Map. [Map lianded to witness.] 
 
 20000. \_Secretarii. — He identifies the land of which ho is in possession, as that marked 
 No. 4 on the map of 1797. 
 
 20001. Dr. Graves. — Tliat corresponds with the lot marked C on the earlier map? — 
 
 20002. Secretary.— It does.] 
 
 20003. Do you pay rent for these lands ? — I do. I pay rent to the Molcsworth family. 
 
 20004. Do you hold any other lands in Swords ? — I do ; but in a diflcrcnt direction. 
 
 20005. Do you pay rent for them ? — I pay rent for the entire. 
 
 2000(5. To the same person? — Not at all. I have nothing to do with the Molesworth 
 family, but for the small portion of land down next the mill. 
 
 20007. Who is the agent of the Molesworth family ? — A Mr. Carey, who lives at Rogers- 
 town, near Rush. 
 
 20008. Have you got receipts for the rent? — Any of the papers you require in my 
 possession, I can give them to you ; but I did not know that you required any particular 
 paper. 
 
 201109. Have you any of the receipts with you at present ? — I have not, my Lord. 
 
 20010. Do you hold under a lease ? — I do. 
 
 2001 1. What is the tenure ? — A lease of lives. 
 
 20012. By whom was tliat lease made? — By the Alolesworth family, to my partner. 
 
 20013. Dr. Andrews. — Have you a copy of that lease? — I have; but I did not know 
 you required it. 
 
 20014. Could you produce the lease and receipts? — Not now. 
 
 20015. You could do so to-morrow ? — I will at a future period of the day, if you would 
 not detain me long. 
 
 200 10- If you sent them it woidd save you the trouble of coming again. 
 
 20017. Do you hold any of the mill premises ? — I do not know. 
 
 20018. Could you tell any thing about the school lands? — I cannot. 
 
 20019. All you can do is to point out the premises which you hold, on the map? — 1 
 have pointed them out. 
 
 20020. [^Secretary. — Matthew Duff, John Brangan, and Peter Aungier arc not in attend- 
 ance, my Lord.] 
 
 Mr. James Brangan further examined. Mr. .James Brangnn. 
 
 20021. Any information the Commissioners require respecting John Brangan, I can give 
 it. He holds a portion of those lands under our family — it is as you go from the town of 
 Swords. 
 
 20022. Chairman — Is this the piece of ground that ilatthew Duff holds ? — I am not 
 aware. 
 
 20023. Does he hold an acre ? — He holds something about that. 
 
 20024. [^Secretary. — This witness identifies that John Brangan holds plot No. 5, on the 
 map of 1797, and pays rent to him.self.] 
 
 20025. Do you hold that lot under lease? — It is pai-t of the former holding that is held 
 under Lord Talbot ; the same lease that you were speaking about to Counsellor Peebles. 
 
 20026. Do you hold any other lands under the same lease ? — No, my Lord.
 
 40 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin-. 20027. Do you pay rent to Counsellor Peebles for this lot?— Exactly so. 
 
 20028. Dr. Andrews. — When you say your family hold.s it, do you mean your brother 
 
 Ueu-itVn'TEndo'c- Thomas ? — It is ])ortion of the holding, wliicli, I think, my brother Thomas, under the docu- 
 mentfora Protcsia:,t mont mentioned by Counsellor Peebles, holds. 
 
 School at Swords. 20029. What has Mr. Philips done with his interest in these lots? — I heard that Mr. 
 Mr. James Bransan. Peebles was about to purchase, but 1 did not hear of him before. 
 
 20030. Who was lie, or where did he come from ? — I am not aware. He came here at 
 the time of tlio sale of the property — the time that Lord Talbot refused to renew the lease. 
 
 20031. How has PliiHps been connected with the property? — I shou'd say that Lord 
 Talbot derived under Philips. It would strike me there was a sale to Mr. Pliilips, in con- 
 sideration of a loan to Lord Talbot. 
 
 20032. Do you know has i\Jr. Philips any connexion with any persons in this country ? 
 — I am not aware — I never heard. 
 
 20033. Does he reside in England, do you know ? — I am not aware ; but, perhaps, on 
 inquiry I might find out. 
 
 20034. Do you know who his grandfather by his mother's side was ? — No. 
 
 20035. Did you ever hear any thing about the family ? — Never. 
 
 20036. Do you know was Mr. Phdips any party to the lease of lives renewable for 
 ever, under wliich you held ? — I am not aware ; 1 liave not seen the documeat. 
 
 2003". Did you never see it? — I never did. 
 
 20038. You say it is your brother Lawrence who has these papers ? — I should say so. I 
 think Counsellor Peebles seemed to say he had a counterpart of the lease. It strikes me 
 another family of the Duffs liold a portion besides that you spoke of. 
 
 20039. Do' you remember Peter Early, tlic father of Patrick ami Peter? — Yes. 
 
 20040. Do you remember him liolding that lot of promises that Patrick Early now holds, 
 and Peter Carey ? — Yes, I do. [The map of 1797 is shown to the witness by the secretary.] 
 
 20041. [^Secretary.- — ^Tliis witness completes the evidence which was wanting as to lot 
 No. 3. He says that the portion of ground for which rent is paid to Colonel Lewis, is not 
 that piece of ground on wliicli the house stands, and wliich corresponds with No. 3 on the 
 map of 1797.] 
 
 20042. Do you remember who built the house which stands on lot No. 3 ? — I do. I 
 think Peter Early or his uncle. 
 
 20043. Was it'old Peter ?— It was the grandfother of Peter Carey. 
 
 20044. Is Patrick Early's brother Peter alive or dead ? — He is dead. 
 
 20045. When did lie die? — About four years ago. 
 
 20046. ^Vho holds his portion of the house since his death ? — His widow and family. 
 
 Mr. Patrick Earlj'. Mr. Patrick Earbi furtlier examined. 
 
 20047. Dr. Andrews. — Confining yourself to the houses built by your father, can you 
 tell did your brother Peter pay any portion of the rent of the building in which he lived 
 after your fither's death ? — He paid no rent except for the place he lived in. 
 
 20048. That is the portion of the premises adjoining you ? — We paid rent for that. 
 
 20049. You hold one portion, Peter Eai'ly, you brother, held another portion, which is 
 DOW in the jiossession of his widow, and Patrick Carey iiolds another portion? — Yes. 
 
 20050. They are all close together? — In the one range. 
 
 20051. Have they any thing to do with the three acres of land you hold under Colonel 
 Lewis? — They have, but I hold other land under a Mr. Bolton. 
 
 20052. How do these three houses lie — docs Peter Early's lie between your house and 
 Carey's house ? — Carey's liouse lies between his place and mine. 
 
 2005.'5. Hut they are all close together? — All in one rauire. 
 
 20054. Were they all built by your father? — No, they were old stables, and were the one 
 take until after my father's death when they were divided. 
 
 20055. Peter Early's house was built by your father? — It was first, but lie built additions. 
 20050. Peter Eai-l}', your brother, during his lifetime, ])aid rent for that portion ot tiic 
 
 house to Colonel Lewis? — He did. 
 
 20057. Do you remember vour father building the houses ?^lt is so lone; atro, I do not 
 remember. 
 
 20058. Was it a waste piece of ground before he built there? — As far as I understand, it 
 was a waste piece of ground when my father came homo first, and he built a thatched 
 house on it. 
 
 20059. Chairman. — Which is the thatched house ? — It is not a thatched liouse now. My 
 father first built a thatched house. 
 
 200()0. Is that whei-e your brother Peter lived? — Yes. 
 
 20061. Then what did he build next? — He threw down that, and built a two-story house, 
 and established the public business. Ho built all the stables and things about it. 
 
 20062. Dr. Andrews. — W hen did he build the house you live in? — Since his death I threw 
 down the old stables and built it. 
 
 20()(J'). Were the old stables built by your father? — I think they were. 
 
 20()G4. When was Peter Carey's house built? — His mother and father built it since my 
 father's death. 
 
 20065. You do not pay rent for the two roods, or for the four acres? — Mr. Bolton is my 
 landlord.
 
 EVIDENCE, 
 
 41 
 
 Mr. Thomas Hfofi'tt sworn .nnd oxaminod. 
 200G(j. Cfiairman.—Y o\i ;irc clerk of ilio i);irish of Swords? — I am. 
 20uG7. Do you receive rent from Mr. Tliomas Lowndes? — I do. 
 20068. What amount '?— Four pounds a year. 
 2006'.K l'"or whom do you receive it?- — 'I'he Hon. Mr. Howard. 
 
 20070. To whom do yoii pay it? — I piy it to Mr. Howard. 
 
 20071. Is that rent entered in the ac(H)Uiit of the Economy lands? — No. 
 
 20072. For wliat reason is it nut entered? — Because it is not considered Economj 
 ground. 
 
 20073. What is it considered ? — I think Mr. Howard considers it part of his {flebe. 
 
 20074. Is that four pounds ajipiicd to any particular or chaiitable purpose? — I think not, 
 my Lord. 
 
 20015. Df. ^liidrcii's. — How lonir luivo vou i-esided in Swords? — -About thirtv-eiijht years. 
 
 20070. Do you remember a Mr. Philips bavinjj any thiui; to do with either of the plots of 
 laud occupied by Bran^^an and Early ? — I never heard of the name until this day. 
 
 20077- Do you know of Lord Talbot havinj^ any lands there? — I merely heard that Lord 
 Talbot had some lands on the Malahide road. 
 
 20078. Do you know any member of Lord Talbot's family; or of PLili[is" family being 
 connected with any previous rectors of the parish of Swords? — No. 
 
 20079- Arc you aware <iid ^Ir. Howard get any rent cithei- from Lord Talbot, or any 
 other person, for any of those lands which are held by Early, Patrick I'rangan, or J. 
 Jkl'Kennan ? — I believe he does not. 
 
 Henry Balcer, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 20080. Chairman. — Arc you cliurclr.vardeu for tliis year of tlie parish of Swords? — 
 I am. 
 
 2003 L Have you ever hcanl any thing about those seliool lands, into which we have been 
 inquiring to-day ? — Yes, I have heard l>y common report tliat a quantity of school land 
 has bceii lost, from time to time, to the parish, through mismauagcment or neglect of 
 some kind. 
 
 200S2. Did you hear when the land was so lost ? — No, nor has the portion so lost ever been 
 pointed out to me ; but being connected with the parish, irom time to time, I endeavoured 
 to get information with regard to the matter, but there was no disposition on tlie part of the 
 rector, or of those acting under hi'u, to all'ord that infornuuion. 
 
 200S;J. Is it long since you applied for that inforniatiou? — I think the last application I 
 made was five or si.x years ago, 
 
 20084. Did you Cier examine the maps which have been produced to-day? — I think I 
 have seen the mips produced once or twice at the vestry, hut I have not a sufficiently 
 accurate kaowledgc or recollection of their being produced, to say positively ; but I believe 
 they were produced. 
 
 2008 j. Have you ever spoken to anj' person who remembered these lands being appropriated 
 to school purposes ? — No, 1 never spoke to anybody that appeared to have any knowledge of 
 any portion of those lands, being strictly applicable to educational jmrposes; but the Eco- 
 nomy lands generally, (a copy of the accounts belonging to which the Commissioners have 
 before them), have been considered by the parishioners as not being properly^ managed; and 
 I know several in the parish who have atlemjitcd, at vestries, from time to time, to take a 
 part in the management and a])propriation of those funds, and they were never allowed to do 
 so. At one time, there was au aj)i>lication made to me by several of the parishioners to 
 endeavour to get up a subscription for the purpose of obtaining a legal opinion as to the 
 way they were managed; whether they were strictly managed according to the Act of 
 Parliament or not, 
 
 2008(5. Did you succeed in getting up that subscription? — No. 
 
 20087. Then there was no opinion taken upon the subject? — There was no opinion taken 
 on the subject, 
 
 20088. Dr. Andrews. — Whilst endeavouring to obtain information respecting these lands, 
 were you able to discover through what channel they were lost or misapprojiriated ? — The 
 books or documents were never left sufFicieutly long in my hands, or of any person disposed 
 to give information, to enable me to do so. They have been produced at a vestry, and pro- 
 duced to me in conjunction with the other churchwardens, at my house ; but sufficient time 
 was never aflbrded to examine them. 
 
 2OOSI). What books should we refer to, or records of the parish, in order to discover 
 about these lands ? — The minute books of the vestry, so far back as the rector has them. 
 
 20090. Were there any other books besides the minute books produced at the vestry ? 
 — These were the only books that I am aware of. 
 
 2009 L Did you ever receive any rental, or see the title-deed, which would show that 
 they belonged to the parish ? — I do not recollect. 
 
 20092. Nothing of the kind was ever produced ? — It may have been produced, but I 
 have no recollection of it. 
 
 20093. Did j'ou ever hear of Mr. Philips, who appears to have an interest in these 
 lands ? — No ; when I heard the name mentioned to-day, I thought, perhaps, it might be 
 the man who kept a public house in the premises exactly adjcining those about which the 
 Commissioners have been inquiring ; but from the evidence of Mr. Brangan and the other 
 
 1>UIII,1«. 
 
 IIi'iritMnia Kiirlmr- 
 
 tttcnt fuT u i'rolcatfjM 
 
 Sfhiinl ul Swordft. 
 
 Mf . 'I'liotnuf) MofTott. 
 
 Uiikcr, K,.i. 
 
 gentlemen, I beUeve it is not the same gentleman at all. 
 Vol. XL 
 
 G
 
 42 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Archdeacon 
 Hewitsoji's Endow- 
 
 vtent for a Protestant 
 School at Sword^i. 
 
 ilr. James Braiigim. 
 
 Heury Bnker, Esq. 
 
 ReT Digges La 
 Touche. 
 
 Mr. James Brangan further examined. 
 
 20094. It is not the same family. 
 
 20005. Do vou know any thing about Mr. Philips ? — I know nothing about him. 
 
 20096. Did" you ever hrar of'his name ?— I never heard of it till this day. There was 
 the family that Mr. Baker speaks about in his evidence ; but it is not the same. 
 
 Henry Baker, Esq., further examined. 
 
 20097. Dr. Andrews. — Perhaps, from what has been stated here to- day, Mr. Baker, you 
 minfht be able to give the Commissioners some sugy:estions Avhich would tlirow further light 
 on this matter ? — From what I Lave heard to-day I am quite satisfied that the rumours and 
 reports I have heard as to there being a lease of these lands for the parish, are correct. I 
 may state, it is not with the view or hoje of acquiring the lands that the parishioners 
 are anxious to have the matter investigated ; but in order Uiat such things may be prevented 
 from occurring again. I suppose to recover those lands now would be a difficult piece of 
 business after possession running so long against the parish. 
 
 Rev. Digges La Touche sworn and examined. 
 
 20098. Bev. Dr. Graves. — Are you curate of the parish of Swords ? — Yes. 
 
 20099. Are you acquainted with any circumstances relative to these school lands, in 
 respect to which evidence has been given ?— 1 know nothing except what I heard to-day. 
 I have been too lately appointed. 
 
 20100. How long have you held the curacy of Swords? — I was appointed in February, 
 18.54. 
 
 20101. Have you received any information from Mr. Howard with regard to lands 
 bequeathed to the parish for educational purposes ? — I do not think I received any informa- 
 tion from him about Archdeacon Hewitson's bequest. 
 
 20102. Did you receive from him any information about any other lands left for the 
 purposes of education '?^ — I cannot say I received any information from him with regard to 
 lands being left for the purposes of education ; but I heard that the Economy lands were 
 left for the purposes of charity, by Dean Scardaville. 
 
 20103. 'I hat is, for charitable purposes generally? — Yes; but not for the purposes of 
 education. 
 
 20104. Have you ever seen any instrument under which the Economy lands are held ? 
 —No. 
 
 20105. Then, you have no actual knowledge as to the trusts under which the lands are 
 held? 
 
 2010G. Dr. Andrews. — Arc you aware of Mr. Howard mentioning that these Economy 
 lands were lelt for the purposes of education ? — I do not recollect at present. 
 
 20107. Do you remamber him saying they were left for the purposes of instruction? — 
 I do not recollect at present any conversation about it. 
 
 20108. Have you the deeds in your possession with regard to the Economy lands ? — 
 No ; I never held any thing in my possession with regard to the Economy lands. 
 
 20109. Can you say there is any trust for education connected with them ? — No. 
 
 [For further evidence as to this endowment see page 54.] 
 
 The Erasmus Smith 
 
 Grammar School, 
 
 Oalway — Con. 
 
 RcT.J.W.nallowcll. 
 
 The Er.\smcs Smith Grammar School, Galway — (continued). 
 
 20110. Secretary.— The next case I have to bring under the notice of the Commissioners 
 is the Erasmus Smith grammar school, Gahvay. The head master, Mr. Hallowell, at the 
 time the Commissioners were in Galway, was absent on the Continent, on account of the 
 illness of a near relative ; and he is now anxious to give some evidence to the Commissioners 
 with regard to the state of his school, as he states he was unavoidably absent when a sum- 
 mons was sent to attend the court held in Galway. 
 
 Rev. John W. JIallowcU sworn and examined. 
 
 20111. YIq^. Dr. Graves. — Arc you head nia-tt;r of the Galway grammar school under 
 the Board of Erasmus Smith ? — Yes. 
 
 20112. When were you appointed? — In July, 1848. 
 
 201 13. Have yon any statement which you wish to make to the Commissioners respecting 
 the state of the Galway grammar school ? — Having been unavoidably absent when the 
 Commissioners were in Galway, I am anxious to answer any questions the Commissioners 
 think fit to put, as well as to explain the causes which I conceive affected the prosperity of 
 the school. 
 
 20114. Arc you aware of the general nature of the evidence which was submitted to the 
 Commissioners at the inquiry which they held into the state of the school at Galway? — 
 I have heard a good deal about it, but I never saAv an accurate report of it. 
 
 20115. Perhaps you would not object to make to the Commissioners whatever statement 
 you think necessary, and bearing upon those toj)ics which you have reason to believe were 
 noticed on the Ov.>.asion of the first investigation ? — The school, since my ap]K)intment, has 
 never been in what I could call a flourishing or healthy state ; and there are several causes 
 which I would lay before the Commissioners as accounting for this. 
 
 20110. The Commissioners would desire to hear a statement of these causes? — Wlien I 
 opened the school in January, 1849, I found the classes entirely empty. There had been 
 no boarders at all lor some time, and very few day pupils. The school had very much fallen
 
 EVIDENCE. 43 
 
 in tho public estimation for several reasons. Now, it is a work of mucii iaijour and time. Dubmw. 
 
 to retrieve the character of a public institution ; but, besides this, the country was sufferint; _, _ „ . , 
 
 ,,,,,. J £• • 1 I L 1 ti !• ±1 i T/ie Erasmus ainitit 
 
 very much at the time troin niiancial embarrassment, and, tlicreiore, there was very great Grammar School, 
 
 indifference and apathy on the subject of education. The Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Galwmj. 
 
 Schools, from whom I niii^ht liave expected assistance, had suffered, too, in their estates; Rev.J.W. Hallowell. 
 
 and they were unable to give tiin assistance wliich I niiifht have, otherwise, expected. 
 
 "201 17. Did you- apply to them for assistance to meet tho deficiency which you mention ? — 
 
 I applied. 
 
 20118. What answer did yon receive to that application? — That tlicre were no funds. 
 
 201 19. Was y ur ap|)lication made in writins^ ? — All my applications wore in writins;. 
 
 20120. And did you receive a written answer to the effect you have just stated? — I did. 
 
 20121. Have you copies of any of tho replies of the Governors? — Of the early letters 
 I have not. 
 
 20122. How long is it since you made any such application to the Governors? — I made 
 ono within the last month, but I have received no answer as yet. Some time before that 
 I had wriltcn to the Governors, detailing the particulars of what I thought they required 
 to improve the condition of the school, and the answer was, that they could give no assistance, 
 so far as increasing or paying the sahwy of a master, until they were satisfied with tlio 
 attendance of the school. I tlien wrote a very strong letter, as strong as respect would 
 permit, to which I have received, as yet, no answer. 
 
 20123. What is the latest occasion on which yon received any reply from the Board of 
 Govci'iiors, informing you that the state of the funds did not permit them to make grants for 
 pui'iioj-es which you thought necessary ? — I cannot say, exactly. 
 
 20124. Have you any further statement to make as to the causes of the decline of the 
 school? — At the time of my appointment, or shortly before it, the annual salaries of the 
 master and the assistants had been reduced oue-tliird. The poor-rate and taxes fell exclu- 
 sively on the master, and were exceedingly high, and the resources which I might otherwise 
 have to enable me to extend the education ot the school, were, in consequence, critical. 
 
 2U 125 Your own private resources ?- — The resources arising from my salary, when it was 
 reduced one-third, and a large portion of my income taken away by having to pay assistants 
 and poor-rates, and other taxes. 
 
 2012G. Were you called upon to pay salaries to assistants who Lad been formerly paid by 
 the Governors? — Certainly not. 
 
 20127. Were you called upon to pay poor-rates and taxes which former masters had not 
 been called upon to pay ? — I am not aware whether former masters had to pay them or not. 
 
 20128. But the anio\int of taxes you had to pay were much heavier? — Extremely heavy 
 for a few years. About the time of the famine the taxes increased enormously. 
 
 20129. Did you make any application to the Governors to assist you in bearing those 
 extraordinary burthens? — I did. 
 
 20130. What was the result of your application? — I had to bear them all. 
 
 20131. Are you aware whether it has been the practiceof the Governors to pay the rates 
 and taxes for any of their grammar school premises ? — I know they p.ay the poor-rates of 
 the Drogheda sciiool. 
 
 20132. How do you account for a different practice existing with reference to the other 
 schools ? — I cannot account for it. 
 
 20133. Are you quite sure that the rates and taxes of the Drogheda school are borne by 
 the Governors ? — I do not say all the rates and taxes. I know the poor-rates were. I was 
 for seven years second master of the Drogheda school, and had the privilege of taking 
 boarders, rrnd my taxes were paid by the Governors; and I know the same thing was done 
 with tho head master. 
 
 20134. You have stated that the grammar school at Gal way was in a very unsatisfactory 
 state previous to your appointment. V\'ere there any pupils in it at the time you became 
 master ? — I think there were a few. 
 
 2013o. Who was your predecessor? — The Rev. Matthew Eaton. 
 
 20 136. How long had he been master? — Ten years. 
 
 20137. Was he removed from the niasiership ? — I understood he was required to resign. 
 
 20138. Were the Governors dis.satisfied with his management of the school? — I believe 
 they were. He was a very old man, and his mind began to fail. 
 
 20139. But he only held the mastership for ten years? — That is all. He was an old 
 man when he was appointed. 
 
 •20140. Are you aware whether the Governors gave him a pension after he had ceased to 
 be master ? — They did. 
 
 20141. Uad Mr. Eaton been master in any other school previous to his appointment ? — 
 Yes. 
 
 20142. In what schools? — In Abbeyleix and MuUingar. 
 
 20143. Were they private schools? — Abbeyleix was a proprietary school, and Mullingar, 
 a diocesan school. 
 
 20144. Had he ever held an ajipointment under the Board of Erasmus Smith's Schools? 
 — Never, to my knowledge. 
 
 2014.5. Are you aware wlicther the Governors h.ave established any regular system of 
 granting retiring allowances to superannuated or retiring schoolmasters ? — ^^I cannot state 
 they have established a regular system; but I know two or three instances in which they 
 did grant retiring allowances. 
 
 20146. Are there any other matters upon which you wish to offer an explanation, 
 Vol.. H. G2
 
 44 " ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. or o-ive information to the Commissioners? — I believe the opening, of the Queen's Coiiefrc 
 
 .,., ,. .. , to have been intimately connected with the prosperity of my school. When the College was 
 
 Gruimnar Sc/wvl, ojjcnecl, great tlithculties existed with regard to it. A large number ot scholai'f-hips were to 
 
 Galuay. ^0 given awav, and at the time education in the provinces was at a very low ebb, and the 
 
 K.v..l.W.U;illii\viil. authorities were obliged to adopt a lower scale of qualifications than they would otherwise 
 
 have done. There was, in fact, hardly a suthcient number of candidates ior the scholarships 
 
 to be given away ; and parents then concluding that a lower scale of education was only 
 
 required, removed their children, inadequately prepared, from the various schools. Mine to 
 
 some e.xtent suffered the first year. 1 do not mean to attach any blame to tiic authorities 
 
 of the Queen's College for acting as thoy did, bocau.-^e I do not think they could have done 
 
 .any thing else. Perhaps this would be the right time for me to state that Mr. Killcen, in 
 
 his evidence before the Commissioners, at Galuay, made a statement which has given rise 
 
 to misapprehension. I told him so, and he has written a letter to me, which 1 would liand 
 
 to the -Commissioners. 
 
 20147. Would you wish to hear his evidence, as taken down by the short-hand writer 
 at the time, in orcfer to make his letter or explanation more intelligible ? — I would wish to 
 hear his statement. 
 
 20148. I remember one of the Commissioners asking the following question, referring to 
 the decline of this school. 
 
 201-19. [Part of the evidence of ]\Ir. Killeen, taken at Galway (Vol. I., page 2(19), is 
 read as follows: — "Then you must have some other reasons? — Perhaps so. Weil, 
 then, state them ? — The exhibitions that have been granted, we thought would be the 
 means of increasing the school very much ; it was considered a poor thing for a boy 
 going to Trinity College, to enter as a pensioner, the £S a-ycar would pay only half 
 his fees there, and ho should get a premium every year to entitle him to hold tiiat. Then, 
 when the Queen's College opened, 1 consider the principal reason for our scholars falling off 
 is, they were admitted there before they knew tbeir grammar at school. 1 can say the 
 professors themselves gave it as their opinion — and some of them are listening to me at 
 present— that they had to teach the pupils grammar aficr being admitted as scholars of 
 the Queen's College ; instead of being professors, they had to teach them just as we do at 
 school. They got scholarships when they ought to have remained two or three years 
 longer at school."] 
 
 20150. Have you any observations to make upon that statement ? — I would submit Ids 
 letter to the Commissioners. 
 
 2015L We cannot receive a letter written to c\|)lain aw.ay sworn evidence; but any 
 statement that you would ofi'er, of your own knowletige, we shall \se hajipy to receive"? — 
 I do not think he meant to explain it away. 
 
 20152. I bog to retract the word " away." — It is only meant to restrict his statement to 
 the first year or two that the Queen's College was o])cn. 
 
 20153.' Perhaps it would be better for you to olT'cr an explanation on your own account ? 
 — The only explanation 1 can make, with reference to the statement which you have 
 just read, is, that I conceive the term Mv. Killeen used was entirely too strong in regard 
 to their ignorance of grammar; and, I think, the niisiipprchensions which have arisen are 
 in consequerico of its being supposed that he wanted to intimate that this has continued to 
 be the ordinary practice of the Queen's College. J think that he would be incapable of 
 making such a statement, and he distinctly denies to ine intending it. In the first vcar, 
 from October, 1849, to 1850, a large number of my pupils, compared with the number ia 
 the school, did enter the Queen's Codege, and, I think, all of them obtained scholarships. 
 
 20154. I understand you to say, that you consider that Mr. Thomas Killccn's statement, 
 in the first instance, was rather exaggerated ? — I think it was exaggerated, and too strong, 
 I should not have made the statement. 
 
 20155. And, further, you allege that Mr. Killeen intended to limit his assertion to the 
 state of things which existed at the time when the college was opened?— To the first year, 
 or eighteen months after the opening of the Queen's Colleges. 
 
 20i56. How many pupils from your school have entered the Queen's College, G.alway, 
 since it opened ? — Twenty-six. 
 
 20157. What has been iheir success in the Queen's College? — Twenty-four obtained 
 scholarships and exhibitions. 
 
 20158. Have those who obtained scholarships on their admission been able to retain them 
 by holding their proper places in their class ? — Nearly all. 
 
 20159. Of the twenty-four whom you have mcnti</ned, how many obtained scholarships 
 previous to the end of liS50 ? — Thirteen. 
 
 201G0. Have you a list before you from which you can state the number of pupils who 
 obtained scholarships in each year? — I can. 
 
 201G1. V\ ill you be so good as to give the number cf pujiils who have obtained .vcholar- 
 aliips in each year since the opening of the College? — In October, 1849, four; in January, 
 1850, .six ; in'Octoher, 1850, tiiree'; in October, 1851, two; in (Ictober, 1852, two; in Octo- 
 ber, 185.3, two .'!cholarshi|is and one exhibition; in October, 1854, two; in January, 1855, 
 one exhibition; and in October, lf^55, one scholarship. 
 
 201(J2. It appears, then, that in October, 1M19, four jnijiils entered, and obtained scholar- 
 .ships; and in .January, 1850, six obtained scholarships? — Yes. 
 
 20103. So that within that short period the school lost ten ]iupi!s? — Yes. 
 
 20164. Do you understand that to be the )ieriod to which Mr. Killcen's evidence mainly 
 referred? — 1 think it was intended to apjily to that time, and up to October, 1850.
 
 EVIDENCE. 45 
 
 201()5. On which occasion three pupils entered, and ohtaincJ s.hohirships? — Yes. Uubi-in. 
 
 2Jl()(J. It appears, then, that wit.liin twelve numths tliirtccn pupils from your school n,- Ei^I^i, Smiih 
 entered college, and obtained scholarships? — Certainly. 1 boj; to make some small correc- Ommmar Sr/.ool. 
 lion. Three of those pupils had hcen i)upils at the school of Erasmus Smith just before I Gulwmi. 
 
 was appointed, liut. they never attended after my appointment. lJcv..l.W.n.illowcU. 
 
 20107. Dr. AiKlrvws. — Were those amongst tlio numhor who obtained scholarships in 
 1S4'J? — Two of them obtained scholarships in January, 1850; and one in October, 164J. 
 
 20168. Ecv. Dr. Graves As these were not pupils during your mastership, you con- 
 
 sidtn* tlicy ought to be excepted from the iiuuibir of tliirtc>in ? — No; I claim them as my 
 pujjils. 
 
 201(i!). The school did not lose tiiem in consequence of the opening of the college? — It 
 did not. 
 
 20170. The entrance of pupils who obtained s,:]ioIarships since IS-'iO would not be large 
 enough materially to affect the number of pupils in your school ? — Certainly not. 
 
 20171. The entrance was, on an average, two in each year? — I think so. But I may 
 also state, if t!ie Commissioners allow me, that while I am sensible of the loss I have 
 sustaimnl, I am also sonsitdc that I got pupils who would, probably, never have come to me 
 but for the (Juecn's College. 
 
 20172. Do you intimate that, of thirteen pupils who obtained scholarships in 1849 and 
 1850, none were imperfectly prepared for admission into the college ? — I certainly think 
 that some of them were inadequately prepared for scholarships. 
 
 20173. Does your observation apply to pupils who were prepared by yourself? — It 
 does. 1 conceive they were not long enough at school. 
 
 20174. But with regard to pupils who have been admitted from yovn- school into college 
 in the latter years — that is, from October, 1851, and down to the ]n-esent time — do you 
 make any similar allegation ? — I certainly should have wished some of them to have been 
 better prepared. 
 
 20175. Has the standard of prcp.aration for scholarship examinations been raised since 
 1850 ? — I am sure it has. \ believe it has. 
 
 2017G. Tlie standard adopted in the college must, of course, materially affect the teaching 
 in your school ? — I think it docs. 
 
 201 77. K a high standard is set np for candidates for college scholarships, it will genei-ate 
 diligence, and promote efficiency in the studies of the pupils of your school? — Most 
 certainly. 
 
 20178. On the other hand, if a low standard i.s set up, your pupils will be less inchucd 
 to read an extensive course of classics? — Certainly. 
 
 20179. Arc there any other points to wliich you wish to direct the .attention of the Com- 
 missioners ? — One great cause which has affected the prosperity of this school is, the reli- 
 gious character of the population. The great majority are lloman Catholics, and many 
 suppose the school is exclusively Protestant. Objections have been, consequently, made to 
 me, that the lloman Catholic catechism is not taught in the school, nor Roman Catholic 
 assistants kept, as a m^^tier of course. Still I had in the bej^inning a fair share of lloman 
 Catholic pupils. In 1850 the Synod of Tburles condemned mixed education, and the follow- 
 ing year my Roman Catholic pupils fell off more or less. Interested persons have also 
 endeavoured to fix charges of proselytism on the school, which arc utterly destitute of 
 foundation. Shall I proceed with my statement? 
 
 20180. Before you do so, I wish to a<k you one or two questions arising out of wliat you 
 have now stated. Have Roman Catholic pupils been removed from your school to any 
 other school in Gal way, in which they received classical instruction? — They have. 
 
 20181. And have their parents stated that the reason of their removal was, that they 
 preferred that they should receive instruction in a school in which the master was a Roman 
 Catholic? — They have not stated so openly to mc ; but I have been told so by others who 
 were acquainted with tlieir Avishes. 
 
 201^2. Have you received any instruction from the Governors respecting the mode in 
 which you should deal with Ronian Catholic pupils, or pupils of other rehgious denomina- 
 tions dill'ering from the Established Chundi. Have they left you perfectly free to receive 
 Roman Catholic pupils, or puinlsof other religious denominations without, in any way, inter- 
 fering with their faith or religious exercises?—! have received none ; they left me free to 
 receive them ; but they have themselves nominated, as free pupils, Roman Catholics. 
 
 20183. These free pupils being day scholars? — Yes; we have never been without 
 Roman Catholic free pupils, or very seldom without them since my incumbency commenced. 
 
 20184. Under what obligation do you conceive yourself with regard to the religious 
 instruction to he given to the boarders in the school ? — I certainly conceive myself bound to 
 give religious instruction to the boarders ; and in consequence of that bcUef 1 have declined, 
 or at least been averse, to receive Roman Catholic boarders. 
 
 20185. Dr. Jndrews. — -You would not receive them because you consider that giving 
 such instruction would be interfering with their religious principles? — Partly that, and 
 partly because I would not like to have pupils in the school to whom I could not give religious 
 instruction; and who, thorefore, having to attend religious instruction elsewhere, would 
 be from my control, and I could not be accountable for them. 
 
 20186. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Were you put by the Governors in possession of rules and 
 orders for the guidance of yourself and the ushers ? — None whatever. 
 
 20187. Are you in possession of the charter? — No ; but I h.ave read it.
 
 46 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBLiK. 20188. Are you aware that it contains rules and orders for the guidance of school- 
 
 , masters ? — I am not aware that it enters into details. I believe it contains orders that 
 
 Grammar Schouf, reading, writing, and casting accounts, are to be taught to the pupils tbat are sent ; and if 
 Galwap. the pai-ents require it, and if they are fit fur it, they are to be taught Greek, Latin, and 
 
 Eev.J.W.HalloweU. Hebrew. 
 
 "20189. Are you aware of the existence of this rule : — " Also, the said masters shall duly, 
 once every week, on each Lord's Day, catechise their scholars; and for that purpose make 
 use of tire catechism set out by the late Most Eevereiid Father in God, James Usher, 
 Lord Archbishop of Armagh ? " — I was not aware of that rule until last week. I have 
 never seen Archbishop Usher's catecliism. 
 
 20190. And you have not received instructions from tlio Governors to use any other 
 catechism for the purpose of carrying the spirit of this rule into effect ? — No ; but I always 
 understood the Church Catechism siiould be used, and I always used it. 
 
 20191. Have you been in the habit of using it in the case of day scholars? — Always in 
 the case of Protestant Episcopalians. 
 
 20192. B it not in the case of Eoman Cathohcs or pupils of any other religious denomina- 
 tion ?— No. 
 
 20193. Has your school been subject to any visitation since you were appointed ? — Never. 
 
 20194. There has been no visitation or personal inspection by the Governors, so as to 
 make up for the want of special rules for your guidance ? — Never ; I have had visits 
 two or three times from individual Governors; but not for that purpose. They looked 
 in, and asked how the school was going on ; and on one occasion the late Lord Leitrim came 
 in and examined a class. 
 
 20195. During your incuuibency ? — Since I was appointed. 
 
 20 1 96. Was that visit in the nature of an inspection or a formal visitation ? — Certainly not. 
 
 20197. It was only a visit? — Only a visit. Lord Leitrim was a good classical scholar, 
 and was fond of such things. He came in as a matter of amusement or pleasure. 
 
 20198. Has there been any inspection of the school by formally appointed inspectors, 
 acting under the authority of the Board of Governors? — Never. 
 
 20199. Would you now proceed to the next point which you desire to bring under the 
 notice of the Commissioners ? — I think one of the causes that m.<;terially affect the prosperity 
 of my school is the general supposition among the people of Galway, that the intentions of 
 Erasmus Smith arc not carried out; that the funds are alienated for purposes for 
 which he did not intend them. Great misapprehension and prejudice exist on this subject 
 in Galway; and there is almost a total ignorance of the number of schools which the 
 Governors keep up. As an instance of that I may meuiion, that a gentlonian, who look an 
 active part in getting up the model school in Galway, and who had reason to ho acquainted 
 with t!ie income of the Governors, expressed his astonishment that only three schools in 
 Ireland were kept up by the Board of Erasmus Smith. I told him there were a hundred 
 and six, and he could hardly believe it. He said lie had never hoard it before. 
 
 20200. Dr. Andrews. — What are the mlsappreheiusions that exist in the neighbourhood 
 of Galway that prevent persons taking advantage of the school ; is it as to the Gover- 
 nors, or as to their acts? — The general belief Is, that the funds are diverted to some 
 
 • unknown purj.ose. Some parties go so far as to say they are applied to proselytizing pur- 
 poses ; others express astonishment as to what becomes of the large income which tho 
 Governors receive. They are constantly contrasting the amount which they receive from 
 the estates in Galway, and the amount which they lay out on the maintenance of the 
 school. 
 
 202i)l. If there was a good school In Galway, free from all suspicion, how could the sup- 
 position that these lunds were not properly applied jirevent persons from taking advantage 
 of it? — My firm belief is, this impression has materially injured us. 
 
 20202. When that gentleman was sj)eaking to you about the Erasmus Smith's Schools, 
 was he referring to the grammar schools, or was lie referring to schools generally ? — He 
 did not know they had any other schools but tho three grammar schools. He did not 
 knoVv they had any Engll.^h schools, 
 
 21)203. And it was in reference to the grammar schools he was speaking? — Yes. 
 
 20201. Ho thnught ther(! were three, whereas there are four? — lie thouglit there were 
 on!y three. I suppose be had read tho charter. 
 
 20211.5. He merely referred to the charier, which provides for three schools, and did 
 not know of another grammar school being cstabhshed iu addition to what tho charter speci- 
 fics ?— Yes. 
 
 20200. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Would you be so good as to proceed with your statement? 
 — On my appointment I adopted a very low scale of charges, both for boarders and 
 for day pupils. For boarders my charges were particularly low. I wished to receive 
 and educate the sous of gentlemen, and, knowing tho times were bad, I adopted the lowest 
 scale of charges, which I thought would enable mo to carry out my object. I found 
 objections made, ahtuist in every case, to my charges, both fur boarders and lor day pupils, 
 Dopiity-lii'utenants ot the county objected to forty guineas a-ycar. and ofl'ercd thirty. This 
 occuir<'d in several Instances, and I felt bound to d(^cline these pui/ils rather than take them 
 on such terms. The very lowest opinions upon the cliarges to be \>:ud for education exist 
 In Galway. I have been fro(iuontiy tuld by persons of a respectable rank in life, that 
 30« , or £2 a-year was sufficient payment, In any school, for instruction in classics, science, 
 and all the other branches which boys require for entering college. I think the people
 
 EVIDENCE. 47 
 
 about Galway fail to apprcciato the iinportnncc or cli-ir.icter of tlic edunation given ; and, in Dublib. 
 
 my experience, tiie only question they consider in seeking a classical master is, who will do j,, p SmUh 
 
 it the clienpcst. (Ira'mmnr School, 
 
 20207. Do you happen to know what is the sum paid by day scholars at tlie other Guhay. 
 clas>ical school w]iii;h lias boon established in Galway ? — I cannot say of my own know- Hev.J.W. nulloweii. 
 ledge; but I have been told that the master takes any thing he gets. I think IO5. 
 
 a-qiiarter is about the highest sutn paid. Thei-e wore olijnetioiis raised, that modern lan- 
 guages did not form a poition nt' the otirricuiuin iu my scliool, and that they were not 
 taught gratis. I found great difficulty, in procuring a master of modern languages. I did 
 procure one, but after some time I was obliged to disuiiss iiim, as I foimd him incompetent; 
 and in the difficulty we struck out a plan for enabling tiie pupils of my school to attend the 
 lectures of the professor of modern langungcs in the (Queen's (College, without any charge. 
 The Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools gave me some assistance, and the pijpils were 
 sent, but there wore great olijections to sending them. 'Ihey lost considerable time in 
 going and returning, and tlie liour for attendance at the lectures was very inconvenient, so 
 the plan did not tell at all. 
 
 20208. What was the hour ? — They had to be at the college at half-past ten, and did not 
 leave until half-past twelve. 
 
 202()'J. How many days in the week did they receive instruction in the college?— Three 
 days. Tile plan, as originally struck out by me (and in which 1 asked the Governors' 
 help) was, that they should attend lectures on modern languages and chemistry. I asked 
 for a certain sum from the Governors for this purpose ; but they only gave me half what I 
 asked, and I could not accomplish more than one course of lectures. 
 
 20210. What sum did you apply lor ? — I asked for £50 ay oar. 
 
 20211. Did they allow £25? — They allowed, if there were tifteen pupils, and not more 
 than twenty attending, £20; but if more than twenty, they allowed £25. 
 
 20212. How many did attend? — The class commenced with fifteen, which was increased 
 by one or two afterwards ; but towards the close of the session, it fell off to si.\', for the 
 others could not keep pace with the lectures. The pupils were obliged to attend the ordinary 
 lectures delivered to the college class, and not a separate one for themselves. At the 
 commencement of the present session, I applied to the professor of modern languages to 
 know if he would continue his arrangement, but he declined to do so. He said he did not 
 think he could continue the arrangement, in justice to himself and the pupils, unless they 
 had separate hours and separate classes, and for this he did not consider that adequate 
 remuneration was offered. I think if he was secured £25 for the session, no matter how 
 small the number of pupils which would attend, he would have accepted it. 
 
 20213. Would he have attended at the school for that sum, or would he have required 
 the attendance of your pupils at the college ? — He would not have attended at the school. 
 
 20214. What was the length of the terra during which he gave instruction? — From 
 October until the beginning of January ; and, at my request, he has Avritten out an abstract 
 of the course of instruction which he gave during that period, which I beg to submit to the 
 Commissioners. 
 
 " Queen's College, Galway, 14th December, 1S55. 
 
 " The session of the Queen's College, Galway, is divided into three terms, and the 
 number of lectures delivered to the junior French class during the session is about ninety- 
 seven ; viz., about twenty-one lectures in the first, forty-eight in the second, and twenty-eight 
 in the third term. 
 
 " First Term. — The students begin to read French, and to translate Mignet's ' Revolution 
 Frangaise ;' they study the grammar, and write a portion of the exercises of M. Delille's ' 
 French grammar. 
 
 '• Second Term. — The grammar and exercises are continued once every week : a short 
 French composition is written during the lecture; Mignet's 'Revolution Frangaise' and 
 Racine's ' Athalie' are translated into English, and a lecture on French litei'ature is delivered 
 once a week. 
 
 " Third Term.. — The grammar and exercises are continued; Macaulay's P^ssay — 'Lord 
 Clive,' translated into French ; Racine's ' Athalie' and a ^^ortion of Corneille's ' Polyeucte' 
 translated into English; the lectures on French literature are continued, and, towards the 
 close of the session, a few lectm-es are delivered on comparative language, in which the 
 modern French is compared with the old French, with the Latin, and the EngHsh 
 languages. 
 
 " Aug. Bensbach, Professor." 
 
 20215. You had yourself been trying to make some arrangements by which instruction 
 in modern languages could be secured, if possible, to your pupils ? — I applied to the 
 Governors more than once. 
 
 20216. Do you entertain a strong opinion as to the importance of giving instruction in 
 modern languages ? — Very strong, indeed. 
 
 20217. Do you think that the teaching of modern languages interferes with the ordinary 
 instruction in the ancient languages ? — 1 do not. 
 
 20218. At the came time, does it contribute to give a belter knowledge of our own ' 
 language ? — Very much. I think the great feature which characterizes the education of 
 
 • 1-11 
 
 modern times, is the great attention which is paid to the study ot modern languages, 
 compared with the time when 1 was in school, when they were seldom taught. 
 
 20219. Was the privilege of obtaining instruction ia'Freuch extended to the free pupils
 
 48 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 1)L-Bi.t!». of the school ? — I applied for dii'cctions on tliat suhject to the Goveinors, and thej ansvpcrcd 
 
 ._ — — ., that the privilege could not be extended to them ; but they requited to know if any free 
 
 (/ramviar Scliool. pupils jjad, previous to my application, been placed on the list, and 1 replied two had been ; 
 
 (iaiu-uy. find they then desired that these two should be continueil, and also that if there were 
 
 K<v..r.'\v. iiniiowdl. any particular or individual claims, they were ready to consider them. 
 
 20220. Were any such special claims brought under their consideration ?-- Never. 
 2022L I remember observinf^ that two sons of Mi-. Thomas Killeen, the assistant master, 
 received instruction in French? — Yes. 
 
 20222. \Vcre these two the pupils whom the Governors allowed to remain on the list? — Yes. 
 
 20223. You stated that your original plan was, that the pupils .should obtain at the college 
 instruction in the modern languages, and in cheinistrj'. Was any instruction aliorded to your 
 pupil> in that latter de[iartraent ? — None. 
 
 20224. For what reason? — Because the sum allowed by the Governors veas not sufficient 
 to get it ; and oven in procuring one course of lectures for my pupils, I incurred considerable 
 risk myself. 
 
 20225. What proportion ditl you undertake to pay? — I did not undertake to pay any 
 propfirtion : but my agreement ^Yith the professor of F'rench made me liable for any sum 
 over £25, no matter what it was. 
 
 20226. Arc there any other matters which you wish to bring under our notice? — I think 
 the mode in which the model school at Galway has been conducted, of late years, has seriously 
 interfered with the English department of my school. Wheu it was first opened, we were 
 told that the object was to tram young men and women, as tcachcr.s, for the ditferent schools 
 established under the National Board tliroughoiit the jirovinccs; but after a while, they 
 seemed to think a more ambitious field was open to them, and they applied ihemscdves to the 
 education of the children of the most respectable classes, of physicians, merchants, and shop- 
 keepers; and tl.ey were received on the same terras that they admitted the lowest class, at 
 the rate of 2s. Crf. a quarter. When the inspectors were spoken to on the subject, they 
 e.xprcssed their astonishment that any one could blame the model school for having adopted 
 such a system. It has now come to this, that at the late examination held in the model school 
 at Galway, the head inspector addressed the parents and childrea as.semblcd, and said, — as 
 the pupils were so exceedingly respectable, that ho thought a classical master ought to bo 
 provided — that he would recommend him, and even named a friend of mine, with the salary 
 which he proposed to give him. I have been fold that Mr. Bright, the well known member 
 of the House of Commons, visited the model school on one occasion; and when asked to record 
 his approbation of it, he refused. 
 
 20227. Dr. Andrews Who told you all this? — I was told by a gentleman in Galway 
 
 some years ago. This statement I do not make of my own knowledge at all. 
 
 20228. Who was it told you of the inspector's statement at the e.xaniiuation you referred 
 to? — It was a boarder at the Queen's College, who was present. 
 
 20229. You were not present? — I was not ; but I have it from several. And Mr. Moylan, 
 the head master, has puldished letters in the paper, irom which I have taken extracts, and 
 in which he not mciely states the class fcr whose education the model school was intended. 
 but also tlic fact, that a classical master had been provided. 
 
 20230. Do vou not think that pcr.<ons in easy circumstances would, on the whole, be 
 unwilling to send their children to receive instruction in a model national school ? — I cer- 
 tainly th)nk they ought, but they have not been so in Galway. I am aware that very recently 
 some have been removed who were sent to me from the model school, and their friends 
 stated that the chief cause of their removal so soon was, the bad habits which they contracted 
 by sitting with boys of the lower class. 
 
 20231. Is not the model school abundantly snpjilicd with maps, and all kinds of school 
 requisites? — -I am informed it is, but I never was there. 
 
 20232. Have you funds placed at your disposal for the supply of similar requisites in your 
 school :' — None whatjver. 
 
 20233. Is not the model school a great deal better supplied in these respects than your 
 school '.' — I believe it is. 
 
 20231. Is it not possible that jtarents, even in tlic nj)pcr classes, may be induced to send 
 their children to receive instruction in the model school, in consequence of the excellent 
 education given in it ? — Such may be the case. 
 
 20235. Did you ever visit the model school for the purpose of instituting a comparison 
 between the education given in your school and the nioilel school ? — No, but I had recently 
 an o])|)ortunity of judging. 
 
 2023fi. What means had you of judging? — Some of those boys distingiii^licd at the model 
 school came to mo, and I heard of tlieir excellence in certain dep.artments highly commended 
 previously, but I found they were inferior in these departments to boys of the same age in 
 my sihool. 
 
 202.';7. To wh.at departments do you allude? — English grammar and parsing, mental 
 aritiiinetic, and history, and they were totally ignorant of chronology. They could not give 
 the simplest date. 
 
 20238. Do you speak of ir^tory in general, or English history ? — English history and 
 Roman history. 
 
 202,'}!). Are you aware whether Roman history is taught in tlic model school? — lam 
 aware history is not taught there ; I was told so distinctly. 
 
 20240. Then it would not he fair to institute a coaiparison between them and the pupils 
 of your school in that particular branch of learning? — Certainly not.
 
 EVIDENCE. 49 
 
 20241. Have 30U comparod tlic knowlccl<;c wliich tlio pupils educated ut the model school Diiu.i.v. 
 have, and the facility and correctness with wliich they write l'"nglish from dictation, with ,^,^^ luZZ^ux Smiil, 
 pupils solely educated in vour school in the same branch of learning? — I have. They ccr- arnminur School, 
 tainly are not superior to tlicin in any respect. They are equal to some, and inferior to Culwuii. 
 others of the same ago. ' lVv..T.W. IlalWnveU 
 
 20242. In what j)articular d(;paT-tuiont wore the pupils you allude to distinguished scholars 
 at the model school? — I know that one or two were distinguished. I know one of them 
 obtained a second prize in the model school for proficiency. 
 
 20243. Proficiency in what? — I do not know exactly the subject; but I know chemistry 
 was one department, and English grammar was anotlier department. 
 
 20244. On whose information do you ado])t the statement you are making? — Do you 
 mean with regard to the premiums they got? 
 
 2024.5. Yes; and your general statement? — I adopt it on the information of friends 
 of mine, as well as on that of their parents. One pupil obtained a second, and the other 
 a fourth prize; and in both instances I was informed so by their parents. 
 
 2024t). Then, the model school interferes with your school in this way, that it offers an 
 education upon terms vci'y much cheaper? — A very good education. 
 
 20247. A good education on terms much cheaper? — A good elementary education on 
 mucli cheaper terms. 
 
 20245. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Would you proceed to the ne.xt point, if you please? — So far, 
 my remarks have generally applied to the state of things since my appointment. I now 
 wish to notice the small number of pupils present in the school on the occasion of the visit 
 of the Commissioners to (iahvay. In the year preceding I lost a large number by the 
 removal of parents to other parts of the country. Thirteen boys were removed from this 
 cause, and 1 am very sorry to say my absence from Galway kept several away from the 
 school, in confirmation of which statement 1 may mention that it has exactly trebled since 
 my return. The number present when the Commissioners visited the school was ten or 
 twelve. 
 
 20249. Nine, I believe — wliat is tlie exact number at present ? — Twenty-seven. 
 202,00. Are tlioy all day scholars ?— All. 
 
 202.') 1 . Will you proceed ? — I do not think I have any further observations to make, except 
 to remark that all educational institutions are rather low in point of numbers just now. 
 202.52. Have you any further observations to make on that subject ? — None. 
 
 20253. Have you upon any other point ? — I hoped to have examined Mr. Berwick, and 
 two or three of the professor's of the Queen's College, as to the teaching in my school ; and 
 tliey would have attended bore, but the visitation of the Queen's College being so near at 
 hand, it would be inconvenient for them to leave under the circumstances. Some of them 
 have written down for me the result of their examination, for they have examined my pupils 
 on more than one occasion. 
 
 20254. The Commissioners will receive and read the letters, but they will not make 
 them part of their public proceedings. We might have occasion to examine the gentlemen 
 who have written these letters upon oath, publicly ; and it might not now be convenient 
 to read these letters ? — I would respectfully ask the attention of the Commissioners to the 
 documents now before them. 
 
 20255. It may not be necessary for the Commissioners to trouble the gentlemen with 
 any examination. — I should not have thought it necessary to get these documents, but that 
 I was dissatisfied with the I'esult of the examination of my school by the Commissioners. 
 
 20256. Do these communications refer to that recent examination ? — I think two of them 
 refer to examinations within a year and a-half. The Professor of Greek has examined every 
 pupil of mine who has entered the Queen's College. 
 
 20257. Do you refer to pupils examined by tlie professors of the Queen's College since the 
 Commissioners were in Galway ? — I think the letter of the Professor of Mathematics will 
 allude to one who has been examined since the visit of the Commissioners. 
 
 20258. Who was, 1 believe, in your school at the time the Commissioners visited Galway? — 
 He was. 
 
 20259. The Commissioners have come to the conclusion, that if you desire to have any 
 of these gentlemen examined as witne.'^ses, and if you produce them as witnesses, of course we 
 shall receive their evidence? — Certainly, had I been at the investigation held in Galway, I 
 would have produced the Professor of Greek, the Professor of Mathematics, and the 
 Professor of Natural Philosophy. It would be a serious thing for me to bring them up. I 
 could not do so without paying their expenses, and, iu addition to that, they could not come, 
 because the visitation was so close. I am persuaded that Mr. Nesbitt, and Mr. Berwick 
 particularly, are dissatisfied with Mr. Killeen's examination. 
 
 202G0. \)v. Andrews- — There is a difficulty about receiving these documents which you do 
 not appear to be aware of. The Commissioners are certain that these gentlemen would not 
 state any thing except what they were pei'fcctly satisfiedwas correct; still we could not receive 
 papers from some persons, and refuse to receive them from others ? — I would myself prefer 
 they had been examined ; and I can assure the Commissioners, I could not help feeling 
 that no proper examination into my school could have been instituted in the absence of the 
 professors of the Queen's College. I have never sent a pupil to Trinity College since my 
 appointment ; so the only means of ascertaining the result of my teaching, would be from the 
 professors of the Queen's College, and in their absence no proper conclusion could be 
 arrived at. 
 
 20261. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Have you completed your statement ? — I would wish to suggest 
 Vol. II. H
 
 50 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DrniiK. 
 
 llie Era^itnitt; Smith 
 
 Crrdiuinar SchnoU 
 
 Crahratf. 
 
 Itev.J.W. rrallowell. 
 
 to the Commissioners a few measures wliich I think, if adopted, would increase the efficiency 
 of the school. 
 
 20262. The Conmi.^sioners desire to hear these «ngo;estions? — I think, in the present state 
 of education, whea the Indian service and the Woolwich gates are opened only to pupils of 
 education — I think, as the education of all classes is improved so much in the shape of model 
 schools, that a classical and grammar school should not be behind the times. I have not the. 
 means to accomplish the desired object at present. I should have a staff of masters of sufficient 
 acquirements for the purpose. I should have one for science, who sliouhl include in his 
 department a knowledjro of chemistry and natural science, and also of mineralogy and 
 geology; I should have one to teach the modern languages; I should have an English 
 master ; and I should have a drawing master. I have a science master myself, but I would 
 like to have one of a higher order. I would make the exhibitions that are now in Trinity 
 College of real value, instead of being worth almost nothing to the students. I think it would 
 be better to establish a few of real value, than to have a large number of very small value. 
 I believe £'^ or £6 is now the value of the Er.ismus Smith exhibitions ; and as, from the 
 nature of the locality where I am, very few (hitherto none) are able to avail themselves of 
 these exhibitions, 1 would suggest that some of them might be applied to supporting boys 
 at the school, to give them the means of getting a good education. 
 
 202G3. Are you aware that any school-scholarships of that kind exist in this country ? — 
 Not that I am aware of. 
 
 20264. Would you not find some scholarships of that kind in the Enniskillen school ? — The 
 majority of scholar.ships in the Royal scliools are smaller than when I was appointed. 
 Another thing I would recommend, thongli it ma}^ appear th.at I am making an admission 
 against myself, for the improvement of the school, is an efficient system of inspection. If the 
 master be competent, his labours will be appreciated if he does his duty ; and if he is not 
 competent, there will be an opportunity afforded of discovering where the deficiency lies, and 
 of remedying it. Lastly, I would propose, the establishment of a laboratory, which should be 
 provided with a chemical apparatus and machinery. 
 
 20265. These imjiroveraents which you suggest for the re-organization of the school, are 
 such as are indicated by the nature of the competitive examinations that have been recently 
 instituted ? — Certainly. 
 
 20266. Do you think it would be impossible to prepare young persons to engage in this 
 competition with success, unless such a staff of masters is provided in the present grammar 
 school? — I think it would be almost iii;possibIe. I have known some pupils who succeeded 
 at some of these examinations, but the preparation is not such as I would desire. 
 
 20267- Would the expenses of this additional staff be considerable ? — Indeed I think it 
 would. 
 
 20268. Do you think the expenses would be so great that the Governors of the Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools would object to imdertake them, or be unable to bear them ? — They certainly 
 would have to re-distribute the funds if they did undertake the expenses. 
 
 20269. Do you know what the distribution of their funds is ? — I cannot tell. 
 
 20270. I mean as to the expenditure on the grammar schools and English schno's ? — The 
 English schools consume much more, indeed, than the grammar schools. I think tjie 
 intentions of the founder would be better carried out by supporting the grammar schools. 
 
 20271- In the grammar schools under the Erasmus Smith Board, as at present constituted, 
 is it necessary to give instruction in classics to free pupils? — It is not necessary: I believe 
 I have pupils who do not learn any classics. 
 
 20272. You have pupils to whom you give what is called an English education? — Yes. 
 
 2027-3. Your object in sketching out the plan to improve the school by the employment of 
 the enlarged staff of masters which you have enumerated is, to provide in it a good classical 
 and English education? — An English education of the very best kind, combined with 
 modern langupgcs, for tho,se who do not require classics. 
 
 20274. You prnpose to furnisli f icilities for obtaining education at the school, even to such 
 persons us do not afterwards seek admission into the University? — Yes. 
 
 20275. Do you think it would beimpossible to combine classical and commercial instruction 
 in the one establishment ; or, in other words, do you think any insuperalile difficulties would 
 arise in consequence of the education of a portion of the pupils in different studies ? — There 
 might Ije some difficidty in carrying out the details ; but I think they might be overcome. 
 
 20276. Do you thiidv that these difficulties as to arrangement would be completely 
 overcome by your having a sufficient staff? — I should not despair of overcoming them 
 completely. 
 
 20277. Now, do you think that a well organized and well conducted school of that kind 
 would be adequately supported in Galway, in spite of the prejudices with regard to education 
 which you have spoken of? — I think it would overcome a great many of the difficulties. 
 
 20278. Confining your observations to ['Erasmus Smith's school at Galwa}', how would 
 you propose to meet any difficulties tliat exist in connexion with the religious teaching in the 
 .school? — I certainly should jiropose that instruction sliould nut bo given in any other 
 religion but the one. I would refrain from interfering with the religious instruction of 
 others, but I would provide for one system, and for one system only. 
 
 20279. And you would not make it coinpul-ory on pupils of different denominations to 
 receive any reliirious instruction? — Certainly not. 1 give no religious instruction of any 
 kind to Roman Catholics ; 1 do to Presbyterians and to Episcnpnlinns. 
 
 20280. Might not the ol)jection still be entertained by Roman C.itholics, and parents of other 
 denominations, to the fact that the school was entirely under the management of a Protestant
 
 EVIDENCE. 51 
 
 to.'ichei? — I lliiiik tliey niiglit certainly entei'tain that objection. Still I think the school Uubmn. 
 
 would have a bettor chance of ovcrcoining these difficulties by tiie improvements I have -,., „ 
 
 suggested, than it has in its present condition. Grammar Sr/mol 
 
 20281. How would you deal with this rule with regard to religious inibtruction which is Galuay. 
 
 given in the charter, and which I have read to you just now ? — That rule practically docs iicv..j.w. iiullowcU. 
 not exist at all. I never heai d oi instruction being given in Archbisln p U^shcr's catechism. 
 It was never used in Drogheda, where I was sivcu years, first as pupil, and afterwards as 
 master. 
 
 202iS2. Did you ever hear of" that rule being enforced? — Never. It certainly was never 
 enforced in my time. 
 
 20283. Had you Roman Catholic pupils in the school at Drogheda ? — Yes. 
 
 202S4. What sjstem was pursued with regard to their religious instruction ? — It was not 
 interfered with ; they were allowed to attend the chapel. The lloman Calhdlic bojrders 
 who lived at a distance from the town, went home on Sunday, went to chapel, and received 
 religious instruction ; but it was not interl'ercd with during the week. 
 
 20285. Were the Governors cognizant of Ilomim Catholic boarders being in the school?— 
 I am not aware ; the boarders were not mine, but belonging to the head master. 
 
 20286. Have any Roman Catholic parents who objected to what was supposed to be 
 the e.xcbislve Prutc.'staiit character of the school, professed that they would be contented to 
 send their children if a Roman Catholic assistant were appointed? — Yes, they have. 
 
 20287. Do you youiself see any objection to such an arrangement as that? — I have had 
 a Roman Catholic assistant on three or four occasions ; but not to give religious instruction. 
 
 20288. Did he give religious instruction to the Roman Catholic pupils ? — IVo ; and I 
 certainly should object to his giving it at all to those under my control. Will the Com- 
 missioners allow mc to read Mr. Killeen's letter, that it may speak for me ? 
 
 20289. We could not allow it to be made part of our public proceedings ; but you may 
 hand it in ? — As I mentioned that the number of pupils increased since my return, I may 
 also mention that out of the number I stated fourteen are free, aud of these, three are Roman 
 Catholics. 
 
 20290. Dr. Andrews. — Three out of the fourteen ? — Yes ; and which three were 
 appointed by the Governors without any knowledge of their religion. They did not know 
 they were Roman Catholics until after their appointment. 
 
 20291. Rev. Dr. Graves. — What publicity have the Governors given to the order with 
 reference to the admission of free pupils ? — They insert an advertisement in the Dublin and 
 local papers. 
 
 20292. And have you reason to believe that the conditions on which free pupils are 
 admitted into the grammar school at Galway are matters of public notoriety in Galvvay ? — 
 1 think so. Since the Commissioners held their inquiry in Galway the Governors nominated 
 five free pupils, four of whom were nomiii.itcd v.ithout reference to, and without my know- 
 ledge of their application. 
 
 20293. And you were not called upon to report upon their acquirements by the Gover- 
 nors ? — No. 
 
 20294. Do you know whether they were examined by any one previous to their admis- 
 sion ? — I believe not. I requested of the Governors, when they first wrote to me th.it I 
 would be expected to admit free puiiils, to give me an opportunity of ascertaining whether 
 the applicants were of such a class as would swamp the school, being a class under the 
 ordinary attendance ; and they did not think proper to give me that opportunity. They 
 do not give me any notice of the application, until they send down the list of names to me. 
 
 20295. Is it known among the pupils of the school when a particular boy is a free 
 pupil ? — No one knows who is free or not free, save Mr. Killeen, myself, and the Governors. 
 There is not the smallest dift'ereuce of any kind made with the free pupils. The Governors 
 have given their >ilvcr medals to free pupils as well as to the others. The highest rewards 
 have been obtained by free pupils without any distinction whatever being made. 
 
 20296. At what examinations arc these medals awarded ? — At the half-yearly examina- 
 tion ; they are allowed by the Governors, one to every twelve. 
 
 20297. How long is it since a halt-yearly examination for the awarding of medals has 
 been lield ? — I do nut think they have held one since last year. I should have held one 
 this Christmas but tor the interruption cau.'scd by my absence ; and in the absence of my 
 iormer pupils, aud many new arrivals, I did uot think that it would be fair to take any step 
 for the purpose. 
 
 20298. Previous to that interruption was there an examination held every half-year ? — 
 Yes, regularly. Several medals have been given. 
 
 20299. By whom was the examination conducted ? — By the professors of the Queen's 
 College, or by the masters, or by both. 
 
 20300. Are the results reported to the Governors? — I always return the names of those 
 who succeed to the Governors. 
 
 20301. Has this .system been instituted since you became master, or did you find it in 
 operation ? — The medal system was adopted when I was master in Drogheda; and on vaj 
 going to Galway, I found that no medals were ever distributed. I applied ior them, and 
 the request was granted. The subjects on which they were to be given were left to my own 
 decision. 
 
 20o02. Tliis question relative to the awarding of medals to pupils in the schools undei' 
 the Board of Erasmus Smith came under consiiieration in the course of the inquiry' held at 
 Ennis, and a rule was laid down there by the Governors, that medals were to be given in a 
 
 Vol,. II. H 2
 
 52 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COJMMiSSION. 
 
 liUI.I.'.S. 
 
 The Erafiiit'is Smith 
 
 (iramiittir Sc/totif^ 
 
 (ra/traif. 
 
 Uev.J.W. H:ilUnvoll 
 
 Killvutili Sc/idul, 
 
 t-ndmcpd hil Jmlijv 
 
 Ward atut Mr. 
 
 Hiimillon — i^iin. 
 
 Kev. S. M. Wist. 
 
 J)ocumoiitary 
 Evidence. 
 
 certain number of courses — in classics, English, modern !an<ruagcs. and science ?^Tliey never 
 laid down any rule for me. I applied to them lor information as to Avhat coarse tlicy wished 
 them to be given in, and the answer I received was, that the matter would be left to my 
 own discretion. 
 
 20303. Have you any further suggestions or observations to make? — I have prepared a 
 statement of alUthe free pupils, together with the number of Roman Catholics, in my school 
 since my appointment. 
 
 20304. I3e so good as to hand it in '? — I will furnish it to the Secretary. 
 
 KiLLOUGii School, endowed by Judge Ward and Mk. IIamil'ion (continued).* 
 
 2030.5. Secretary. — Mr. Chairman, the Commissioners held an inquiry, at Downpatriek, 
 into a school endowed under the will of Judge Ward. After the examination, Mr. Despard, 
 a gentleman connected with the school, wrote an article in the newspaper, attacking the 
 evidence given by Mr. West ; and stating, amongst other things, that ho did not consider 
 the school as endowed. Mr. West is anxious to i;ive sonic further evidence with regard to 
 this school, considering that statement to bo an imputation on his evidence. 
 
 Rev. S. M. West sworn and examined. 
 
 20306. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Have you any statement to offer to the Commissioners with 
 regard to the school at Kiilough, which is alleged to be endowed under a bequest of Judge 
 Ward? — 1 have merely to say, that Mr. Despard, the agent of Lord Bangor, attacked me 
 violently in the newspaper respecting the evidence which I gave before the Commissioners. 
 
 20307. In making your statement, avoid personal reference as far as possible, and con- 
 fine 3'ourself to the facts relating to the endowment ? — I was requested by the Commis- 
 sioners to furnish a statement of the endowed schools of Kiilough, one of which was endowed 
 by Mr. Hamilton ; and, in 1837, in consequence of the opposition of the agent at the time, 
 the schools of Judge Ward and Mr. Hamilton were merged into one. The school, then 
 consolidated, went on satisfactorily until tlie year 18.50, ■when I happened to differ with the 
 agent respecting the school, and the manner in which it was managed. I did not approve 
 of the master, and I declined paying Mr. Hamilton's salary to it. J happened to state, in 
 my evidence before you at Downpatriek, that it was an endowed school, which statement 
 has been attacked in a public letter ; therefore, in order to prove that my statement is true, 
 I wish to ask you whether the school is endowed or not. 1 have attested on oath before 
 the Commissioners that it is endowed, because 1 know that the moneys of Judge Ward have 
 been applied to it, as also those of Mr. Hamilton. It, therefore, remains for you to decide 
 whether I have made that statement false or true. 
 
 20308. \_Seci-etari). — After a lengthened correspondence with Mr. Despard, he has made 
 a return with regard to this school, in which return he gives what he calls endowments from 
 land ; but he makes this return under protest, and under the impression that the school is 
 not endowed. There is no doubt that there is an endowment of 52a. 2ii. 9p., of land, called 
 Ramsay's Holding, Bangor, county Down, the net annual income of which is £6t) Gs. Ad. 
 Mr. Despard states in his return, that of this sum. Viscount Bangor's schools in Kiilough 
 received £2.3 in 18.53, being £lU for each school, and £5 for requisites, under the minute 
 of the Commissioners for Charitable Trusts and Bequests, dated 2Tth February, 1847. 
 The Commissioners have made inquiry from the Board of Bequests as to the circumstances 
 under which this £25 was paid, and the following was the reply received : — 
 
 " Office of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations 
 and Bequests for Ireland, No. 34, Lower Gar- 
 diner-street, Dublin, I2th day of December 1805. 
 
 "JlDGE WaUD'.S ClIAUn'Y. 
 
 " Sir, — I have laid before the Board your letter of the KJth of November, in which you 
 request 'a copy of the extract from the will of Judge Ward, creating the charity,' and also 
 a statement of the manner in which the funds of the charity are now allocated. 
 
 " With respect to the first part of your application, 1 regret that the Board does not feel 
 itself at liberty to furnish such coi)ies, Avhich have of late been very frequently solicited from 
 them by various pai'ties. Tliey are supplied to this Board at a i-ate considerably below the 
 regular charge, by the officers of the Prerogative Com-t ; and it is not conceived fair to those 
 officers to indirectly diminish their regular lees by making these copies available to any but 
 the Board itself. It may be of use to mention that ihc date of the will is 1749, June IG. 
 
 " With respect to the allocation of the funds, the Board conceives that it would 
 probably not answer the purpose of your inquiry if 1 v/crc to limit my reply to this single 
 point, and has therefore desired me to furnish some additional information as to the pro- 
 ceedings in this (charity. 
 
 " It was first brought before the late Board in 1838, and a bill was then filed to carry out 
 the charity. This resulted in a compromise, which was accepted under the sanction of the 
 Attorney-General, on the 5th May, 1840. By this a .sum of £339 i2s. M., besides costs, 
 was paid to the lioard, and the premises in question were conveyed to them. 
 
 " As the original object of the testator had partially failed (the Incorporated Society's 
 charter school having ceased to exist), a scheme was jiroposcd for the application of the 
 bequest, in accordance witlithc powers and practice of the late Hoard. This was settled in 
 1843, and was as follows : — ' That a yearly sum (jf £20 bo applied to increase the salaries 
 
 • Sec Evidence at Downpatriek, Vol. I., ji. .iM.
 
 EVI13ENCE. 
 
 :).) 
 
 of the maste. ami mistress of Killougli schools, and X iO to increase the salary of the master ijLiii.i.v. 
 
 of Ballyronan schools. That a further annual sum of £20 be allocated for the purchase of , ; 
 
 books for tlicse schools and in apprentice fees for the children, and in relicvi.'i;; poor lisher- ,]!!uvrtl h .T",U e 
 men and others as occasion may rciiuirc' iVanl ami Mr. 
 
 " ' That £.'300 out of the savini; be appli'id in Ijuilding an infant scliooj, with residence for //"m*™. 
 
 the mistress, and tiiat an annual sum of £10 be .allocated for her salai-y. The residue of l_>";-"i'.icnt.iry 
 the fund and income to accumulate and be applicable to repair continj;encics, &c.' '*" '''"'^' 
 
 " It appears, .also, that considerable delay was caused by the minority of Lord Bani^or, 
 which made it impossible for the iioard to obtain a conveyance of a pr(>per site Ibi- the 
 intended school ; but that in Alay, 184.3, the ti-ustecs of Lord Ban<;or consented to build the 
 hcliool at tlicir own expense, obtaining from the? Board a promise of repayment upun Lord 
 Bangor's coming of age, and executing the rcquii'cd deeds. 
 
 '• Upon the constitution of the present Board in 1844, the payments previously made 
 under tlie orders of the late Board were continued as arranged by it. By a consent, dated 
 January 29th, 1847, signed by the trustees, the Board was rcquesiod to somewhat vary and 
 cuLarge the distribulion of the fund. This was agreed to on the 20tli February, 1847, and iias 
 been since adhered to ; it is as follows : — 
 
 To Killougli schoolmaster, . . . . , 
 
 Do. mistress, ..... 
 
 Ballyculter mistress, ...... 
 
 Purchase of books, &c., for schools, 
 
 Distribution among poor, . . . . , 
 
 £70 
 
 " The sum is remitted to Crcptain H. Despard, the agent for the charity, and any balance 
 that may remain is invested for accumulation. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 The source of income are rents of land in Banfjor, 
 • in the county down, gross amount, . . . 70 19 
 Dividends on £473 8s. 6d., three and a-quarter stock, 15 7 8 
 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 30 
 
 
 
 
 
 £SG G 8 
 " I have the honour to remain, sir, 
 
 '• Your obedient servant, 
 (Signed) "Hercules M'Donkei.l, Secretary. 
 
 " To Dr. W. Neilson Hancock, Secretary, 
 
 Endowed Schools, Ireland, Commission." 
 
 20309 This is the clause of the Act of Parliament (Stat. 18 and 19 Vic, ch. 59) under 
 which the Commissioners are acting, which defines what endowments are. '• Endowments 
 shall mean and include the estates, lands, funds, and annual or other income given, granted, 
 or applied for the establishment or support of such schools, or for the purposes of education 
 therein." It is perfectly plain that these fifty- two acres and £4 73 are lands and funds 
 "granted and applied for the purposes of education"; and, therefore. Captain Despard is 
 labouring under a misapprehension of the law in supposing these schools are not endowed ; 
 and seeing this he was coerced to make the return which he has made. 
 
 20310. [Rev. jS". W. TIV.'.■^ — I have forwarded to the Commissioners lettei's which sot 
 forth certain particulars of jMr. Hamilton's endowments.] 
 
 2031 1. A\ ith regard to the endowment for a school by l^fr. Hamilton, tlici-e was a question 
 as to certain items of the fund. j\lr. West was called on by the Commissioners to produce 
 certain original letters of the late Bishop of Down and Connor, which are now produced; 
 and he wishes to give them in evidence in explanation of his former testimony.] 
 
 Eev. S. j\l. /Ft's^ further examined. 
 
 20312. These letters I produce show the items paid by the Bishop of Down, on foot of 
 this bequest, being £9 4s. Id., £4 19s. l\d., and £1 7s. Sd., as salaries to the clerk and 
 schoolmaster, and poor money. There was an arrear of interest accrued for twenty-three 
 years on foot of this bequest, and I hope the Commissioners will now see that the statement 
 I made bcl'orc them at Downpntrick is true. 
 
 20313. Rev. Dr. Graves. — The Commissioners have no reason to doubt your statement 
 as to the matter of fact ; the only question in the case was wlicthcr, under the terms of the 
 Act of Parliament, these bequests were endowments or not. At present, it appears to us 
 there can be no doubt that they are. 
 
 ]{ev. S. J!. West.
 
 54 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DaBLIK. 
 
 Archdcficon 
 
 Hcivitson X Enduw- 
 
 ment for a Pi'ote^tatli 
 
 Sclidiil nt Swords — ■ 
 
 con. 
 
 Documentary 
 Evidence. 
 
 Dublin, December 18, 1855. 
 
 Present : — Makquess of Kildare, Chairmam; Eev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, Mr. Hughes, 
 Mr. Stephens, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 Archdeacon Hewitson's Endowment for a Protestant School at Swords (continued).* 
 
 20314. Secretary. — Mr. Cuffe, in obedience to the directions of the Commissioners, has 
 produced this morning the lease bearing date 1st July, 1814, from Frances Roach, widow, 
 and the Rev. J. E. N. Molesworth and Edward Molesworth, Esq., to Patrick Cuffe. It 
 conveys all that and those that piece or plot of ground in the town of Swords, described 
 in the map attached. This map being compared with the map before the Court, it is per- 
 fectly clear they ai'e the same jDremises. 
 
 203 15. Mr. Hwjhes. — What is the rent reserved ? 
 
 20316. Secretary. — Yielding and paying the yearly rent of £7 ; and the term is during 
 the natural lives and life of Edward Molesworth and of Miss Elizabeth Philip "Wilder and 
 Benjamin Allen. There is no covenant for renewal. The name of Peter Early occurs in 
 the map attached to this lease, exactly in the same position as it occurs in tlie other map. 
 
 Inrorpnraled Socicly 
 
 in Dublin for 
 
 promollnfi English 
 
 Protestnnl ScUouh 
 
 ill /mlaiid— con. 
 
 ReT. Richard Ardill. 
 
 Incorporated Society in Dublin for Promoting English Protestant Schools 
 
 IN Ireland (continued).f 
 
 20317. Secretary. — The next case to bring under the notice of the Commissioners is the 
 general question with regard to the Incorporated Society. The Rev. Richard Ardill is ia 
 attendance. 
 
 Eev. Richard Ardill sworn and examined. 
 
 20318. Chairman. — What office do you hold in connexion with the Incorporated 
 Society? — I am secretary to the Incorporated Society, and have been an elected member 
 of it for nearly twenty years. 
 
 20319. What is tlie nature of the duties you have to perform in connexion with that 
 society ? — My duties are, to attend all meetings of the Board and Committee; to make 
 payments as ordered by tlie society ; receive all official communications addressed to me 
 as secretary ; lay them before the following Committees or Boards ; take their opinion on 
 the several cases submitted to them ; and make the returns, as directed by the Committees 
 or Boards. 
 
 20320. When were you appointed secretary ? — In 1 842. 
 
 20321. Who is the treasurer to this society? — The Bank of Ireland. 
 
 20.''22. How often does the society meet? — On the iirst Wednesday of each month in 
 the year, except the first Wednesda}' in January, when there is seldom a meeting. 
 
 20323. Are these meetings of the Committee, or are all the members summoned to these 
 meetings ? — All the members in Dublin are summoned to the general meetings of the 
 Board, and tlie members of the Committee, who are fifteen in number, are summoned at 
 tlie same time. There is a notice at the foot of tlie summons, stating tliat the Committee 
 of Fifteen meet at twelve o'clock, whereas the general Board meets at one o'clock on the 
 same day. 
 
 20324. How many form a quorum ? — Seven, under the Act of Parliament. 
 
 20325. lias a yearly account of the receipts and disbursements of the treasurer always 
 been laid before the Board on the first Wednesday in November? — The Act of Pai'liamcnt 
 states tlie first Wednesday in November, but the first Wednesday in February lias been 
 substituted. Tlien the Committees are appointed for the ensuing year, and the accounts 
 made u]) to the 31st of March, and audited by the Committee of Account. A balance sheet 
 is struck and laid before the society, which, with all the accounts of the society, according 
 to the Act of Parliament, must lie open seven days for the inspection of any member. 
 
 20 5-(). Mr. lliiijhes. — What do you mean l)y tlie Act of I'arliament ; do you mean the 
 cliartcr? — Tliere are three Acts of Parliament: I mean tlie cliarter Act. 
 
 20327. Mr. Stephens. — What Act of Parliament do you rei'er to?— I refer to the Act of 
 1702. Geo. III. 
 
 20328. Mr. Ilvijhes — That is tlie charter, or letters patent, but not an Act of Parliament ? 
 — There is a former Act in the reign of Geo. II. 1732. 
 
 20329. Chairman.— Arc tliesc the Acts that you refer to ^Document is handed] ? — Yes ; 
 this is one of them, liut there is another. 
 
 20330. Is the other at tlie end of tlie pamplilet which has Ijccn handed to you ? — I 
 think there is another beyond that Act. There are three Acts : one in the reign of Geo. 
 II., which instituted the society; another in 17-10, having reference to the will of Lord 
 Ranelagh ; and another in the reign of Geo. III.. 1792. 
 
 20331. Mr. Stephens Those instruments are letters jiatent, and not statutes. 
 
 203.32. Chairman. — Have you furnished tlie Commissioners witli the names of the Com- 
 mittee of I'iftecn for this year? — Shall 1 do so from nieinory ? 
 
 20333. Have you done so already? — I am not aware tiiat 1 have. 
 
 20334. \\'ill you have the goodness to do so in writing ? — The books will sliow tliem at 
 once. 
 
 • See Evidence, VdI. I., v. si.',, and Vol. II., p. Ji. t Vol. II , p. ao.
 
 EVIDENCE. 55 
 
 20:535. You will do it in writing, if j'ou please. Wliat arc the otlicr officers in con- Dublin. 
 
 ne.xion with the Board ?— There is a clerk, and a mossciiftcr who also acts as hall-porter. , ~~, ,. ■ , 
 
 20336. What arc tlic duties 01 the clerk c — llic duties 01 the ch^rk are to copy out the ,„ Dublin for 
 
 minutes ; enter, as directed hy mo, all payments, and all matters comiccf cd with the work- pminoHmj EiuiH-h 
 
 ing of the society. In i'act, his duties comprise every thing that does not come within the ^''^"'iifirchmd^""^' 
 
 agency department. • •„,. • . o r^ licv. liick.rd .\r,lin, 
 
 20357. How many agents are tliere m connexion with tlie society .'' — One agent. 
 
 20.'538. lias he the management of all the estates of the society ? — The management 
 of all the estates ; hut, of course, under the direction of the Board. 
 
 20339. Are there no local agents ? — None. 
 
 203-10. Where do the estates of the society lie? — Tliey are dispersed over fifteen or 
 sixteen counties. In some places they are small in amount, and in some places extensive; 
 and in some of these places the agent is allowed to vary the system in the discharge of his 
 duties. 
 
 20341. What are the salaries of the oiBcers of the society? — My salary is £300 a-year, 
 with a residence in the society's house, and coals, and an allowance of soap to keep the 
 house elean, and of caaidlcs to keep it lighted. The allowance of the clerk is £90 a-year, 
 with a gratuity of £ 1 at tiie end of the year. The allowance to the messenger, or porter, 
 is £30 a-year, with a gratuity of £10 at the end of the year. There are no other officers 
 connected with the society. 
 
 20342. What is the salary of the agent? — The agent has five per cent, on the rents. 
 2034 5. What do you mean by five per cent, on the rents? — He is entitled to live per 
 
 cent., commission, on all the rents he receives. 
 
 20344. Is it five per cent, on the rents received, or five per cent, upon the rental ? — 
 I rather imagine it is upon the rental. 
 
 20345. Mr. Stephens. — If the rental of the property were £300, and the agent received 
 £200, what would be his commission fees ? — I should suppose he would receive £lO. The 
 reason that raises any doubt in my mind on the question, is that, in some cases, there had 
 been temporary abatements made in the rents, and I do not know whether the agent 
 received his salary upon the whole amount, irrespective of the abatements, or upon the sum 
 received, exclusive of these tcmporaiy abatements ; but these abatements have now been 
 discontinued. 
 
 2034^. But your books, I suppose, Jlr. Ardill, will give the required information? — Oh, 
 certainly. 
 
 20347- AVhat book will give that information '? — The agents'' books will give the fullest 
 information on the subject. 
 
 20348. Have they been returned to the Commissioners ? — They have not. They are very 
 voluminous ; and he has two clerks busily engaged, at present, in making out the returns 
 which the Commissioners required ; and I imagine they will be ready in a short time. 
 
 20349. Who is the agent ?— Mr. WiUiam Piclgeon. 
 
 20350. Where does he reside ? — He resides near Templeogue. 
 
 20351. Is he in attendance? — Ho is in Dublin, but he has not been required to attend 
 here to-day ; but if the Commissioners require him, he will be in attendance in a few 
 moments. I left him in Aungier-street a short time ago. 
 
 20352. On what recognized system of book-keeping have your hooks been kept ? — I kept 
 them in the same way in which I found my predecessor had kept them, which, 1 understand, 
 was the way in which they were kept, when the society sent over their accounts, yearly, 
 to the office at Somerset House. 
 
 20353. But you have not exactly answered my question, which is — upon what recognized 
 system of book-keeping have your accounts been kept ? — The items are copied into the 
 disbursement book, which corresponds as to those entries with the cash-book ; and there 
 is a balance sheet with which those two accounts harmonize. 
 
 20354. Is it not usual to keep a book called a ledger ? — I suppose the ledger would form 
 a cash-book, or something similar. I do not know what entry could be made in the one, 
 that 1 have not made in the other. 
 
 20355. You say you have kept a book that is similar to a ledger — am I to take that as 
 your answer to my question ? — That is what I wish to convey. 
 
 203 (6. If you had kept a regular ledger, could you not, at any one moment, have 
 ascertained the pecuniary position of each trust of the society ? — Of each particular school ? 
 
 20357. Of each trust ? — The disbursement book shows that at once 
 
 20358. But the disbursement book could only show the expenditure ? — That is all I have 
 to do with. The receipts are belonging to the agency department. I do not receive 
 money, except by drafts on the Bank of Ireland. 
 
 20359. But the Committee have to deal with both accounts ? — The Committee have 
 power to audit the agent's as well as my accounts. The Board sees the bank book — they 
 see what money is lodged by the agent to the credit of the society, and they then draw 
 their drafts accordingly. 
 
 203f)0. Have you any bank-books by which you could check the entries made by the 
 bank clerks ? — There is the private draft-book, and the blocks of the draft-book, which are 
 required to correspond with the bank-book, and which are half-yearly examined. 
 
 20.H()1. Are they posted ? — Oh, yes. 
 
 203?i2. Where ?— In the Committee of Fifteen book. 
 
 20363. Where is that book ? — If you would allow me to explain, I would explain in 
 this way.
 
 lifv. Itiolsard Anlill. 
 
 ->G ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DinnN. 203G4. ^Vhcl•c is the book ? — It is not here. 
 
 , , , 203(J.T. Has it been asked for ? — The Committee of Fifteen book has not been asked for, 
 
 hi Dublin fvr L)'** 1* ^''^'- "^ here in ,a icw moments it you like. 
 iiroHio/hiii Emiii^i, 203G(i. AYc ought to have been furnished with all the books respecting the accounts of the 
 
 Pr<iir,i,iiii SclwoU society, when we asked for them? — The cash-book is copied from the Committee book, 
 and sliows all tlie receipts as well as the Comnnttee book. 
 
 20307. [^Secretari/. — This is the reply of Mr. Ardill to a letter addressed to him, as to 
 wliat books he held — •' 1 hold books of the societj^ containing minutes of the proceedings 
 of tlic general Board and Committee of Fifteen, together with the cash, disbursement, letter, 
 and bank-books, and a bopk of miscellaneous entries."] 
 
 20.;08. IVo one could have inferred from your letter that the book containing the 
 minutes of the proceedings of the general Board and Committee of Fifteen, had direct 
 relation to the pecuniary affairs of the society, especially when you go on to .state, toge- 
 ther with the cash and disbursement books, and book of miscellaneous entries. What 
 would tlie Committee of Fifteen book show if it were here ? — It would sliow the several 
 proceedings of the society — the general working of the society; and there is in it a con- 
 cluding paragraph to this effect: — Signed a draft in favour of the secretary, on tlie Bank of 
 Ireland, of £500, or as the case might be, or signed two drafts of £300 each, which drafts 
 are entered in the casli-book and bank-book, which are now before the Commissioners. 
 
 20G69. In what book does the allocation of that money appear? — In the cash-book. It 
 appears in the Committee book first, and then is copied from that into the cash-book. 
 
 20370. If a cheque were given in favour of any other person but the secretary, where 
 would it ajjijcar ? — I have not known an instance of such a thing. 
 
 20.371. But where would it appear if the case occurred ? — It would appear, certainly, in 
 the cash-book, with the receipt of that person in whose favour it was drawn. 
 
 20372. Have you any Government stock account-book by which you can show, at any 
 one moment of time, the purchase and sale of stock? — Yes ; there is always a minute to 
 that effect ; it will be found in the casli-book. 
 
 20373. Will you be so kind as to turn to that book where you keep your Government 
 stock account, so as to tell me, at any one moment of finie. the purchase and sale of stock? 
 — 1 have before me an entry of the sale of stock for the purpose of juiying for the Athlone 
 buildings. 
 
 20 )74. Is not that a single entry? — It is a single entry. 
 
 20375. Upon the Sth of September, 1S54, what was the balance of stock in favour of the 
 society: I am now referring to the entry to wliich you liave called my attention? — I could 
 not be able to tell you, unless the whole stock under tlie head of tiie different institutions 
 ■and scliools were added together. 
 
 20376. Then, in point of fact, there is no Government stock account in your books? — 
 No separate account. 
 
 20377. How many accounts would you Iiave to go through, in order to ascertain the 
 lialance of stock on the Sth of September, 1854, in favour of the society? — About four, I 
 should think. 
 
 20378. What are these four accounts ? — There is stock to the ci'cdit of Boland's devise 
 — a small sum ; and there was stock to the credit of the Ranelagh fund, which has been 
 almost all sold out for the building lately erected at Athlone ; there is some stock to the 
 credit of the Farra Institution, in the county Westmeath ; thei'e is some stock to the credit 
 of the fiociety received from the Railway Company for ground they purchased at Athlone. 
 
 20379. JWr. Hughes. — Just show me any entry of that last transaction in the cash-book? 
 — That is of the railway transaction ? 
 
 203S0. Yes : where is the entry of the stock to credit of the society ? — The entry is " paid 
 into the Court of Chancery." 
 
 20381. That is an entry of the dividend received on the stock ; but where docs the stock 
 appear — does it ai)pcar in that book at all to the credit of the society ? — It appears in this 
 boolc to tlie credit of the society. 
 
 20382. Jlr. Stephois. — 5Ir. Ilughes is asking where is the entry? — The entry is in the 
 Board book of money lieing paid, as reported by the land agent of tlie society ; and here is 
 an entry of the interest received on that money. 
 
 20383. Mr. Ihajlies. — But have you an entry that shows any Government stock to the 
 credit of the society ? — None, except the receipt of interest. 
 
 20.384. The only thing that rciircsents upwards of £900 stock in that book is the receipt 
 of £14 Is. interest. Is tliere any entry of stock to tlie credit of tlie society? — I am 
 not aware of any in this book beyond wliat you find, and there it is recognized : and in the 
 general Board book or Committee boolc is tlie report of so and so, that the stock has been 
 purdiascd. 
 
 20385. iMr. Stephens. — You stated that you have an entry of the stock in a minute of the 
 society ; but that is not an account with the society ? — The minutes I sjioke of are the 
 Coininittec liooks and tlie general lioard books, in which arc rojiortcd all sums that have 
 been invested to tlie creilit of tlie society ; and tlien in tlie cash-liook tliere is a recog- 
 nitiiiii of receiving interest u])on tjiese sums. 
 
 20380. Mr. Jlnijltes. — Mr. Ardill, when you sold out £1.000 Government stock for the 
 ])ur])osi! of building an establishment belonging to the Incorporated Society, show me now 
 any set of entries by wliich it appears tlicrc was a balance of stock standing to the credit 
 of the society after tliat transaction ? — 1 can mm-cly state tliat there was so much sold out, 
 leaving
 
 Irrluml. 
 I!ev. lili'lKinl Anlill. 
 
 EVIDENCE. 57 
 
 20387. Sliow mo wliore that transaction is recorded? — T do not really know how I Dublin. 
 
 could show it. It is stated ill the general Board and con)mittee hooks. If stock to the . , ~i~i < •,/ 
 
 amount of f 1,000 or £800 is sold out, it is only by the order of the committee that it is ' hl'ihihliuibr ' 
 
 sold; and tliere is a statement of the sale of the stock and what it is sold for laid before innnuiihiii KnifUsh 
 
 the society. /'/•../-•»/,,»/ ,sv/,„o/. 
 
 2(l.'5ti8. Wliat we want to know i.'i tills — on a certain day the P.oard issues an order for 
 the sale, we will say, of £1,000 Gov(n'nn)ent stock, for some jiurpose connected with tlie 
 society : well, the stock is sold, and the sah; of the stock a]j])ears in tliat Ijook ? — It appears 
 by the cash jjroceeds. 
 
 201589. 15ut where does it ajjpear what is tlie balance of stock, after that sale has taken 
 place, to the credit of tlie society? — It must ap])ear in the Govcrnmcni stock book. 
 
 20;i!)0. That is tlie Hank of Ireland book?— Ves. 
 
 20.'{91. lUit you have no record of it in that book before you? — I liave no record of the 
 balance. 
 
 20392. And there is no entry in your books to that effect? — -No. 
 
 20393. Mr. Stephens. — Is there any stock account kept in the books? — No account 
 beyond wliat you have scon. 
 
 20394. I want you to refer to your accounts, and show me what is the amount of your 
 capital in stock ? — Theri! is over £4,000 in the Irish funds. 
 
 20395. How much in the English funds? — In the Englisli funds tliere is over £90,000. 
 20390. Jlr. Jhujhes. — ISiiow the Commissioners any entries in your books recording that 
 
 £96,000 ? — The only entries are these tliat the house of 
 
 20397. Mr. Slephens. — It will much facilitate our inquiries if you will answer from the 
 entries in your book=). 
 
 20398. -Mr. Hiuihcs. — Sliow tlie entries in the books? — 1 cannot sliow any entry, except 
 that the IJank of England remits to the Bank of Ireland the interest upon this .£"90,000. 
 
 20399. Mr. Stephens. — Have you any Government stock account in your books? — No 
 separate Government stock account. 
 
 20400. Are all the entries as credits posted into your disbursement book, from your cash 
 account book ? — Yes. 
 
 20401. Are tlie entries on the debit side of the cash-book posted? — They are not in the 
 disbursement book. 
 
 20402. Where are they posted ? — They are in the cash-book. 
 
 20403. Are they posted from tlie cash-book into any other book? — No; there is no 
 further posting. The cash-book is examined by the committee, and posted, and there is 
 no further posting. There is a credit, and there is a debit : one appears in the general 
 disbursement book, and the otlier remains posted in tlie cash-book. 
 
 20404. Why do you find it convenient to post the credits, and not the debits ? — We wish 
 to show the expenditure of each individual school or establishment, and that is shown at a 
 bird's eye glance, wlicn you turn to it, in the disbursement book. 
 
 20405. Why is it not equally requisite to show the credits? — A great deal of money comes 
 out of the general funds for separate individual schools, and that is all shown in the cash- 
 book, which is laid before the society. 
 
 20400. Then, in point of fact, all your accounts are made up from your cash-book? — 
 All. There is notliing paid except by the order of the society, and there are vouchers for 
 each payment produced. 
 
 20407. Then the accounts appear in the cash-book, though not made up from it? — They 
 appear in the cash-book. You may perceive every item of expenditure is vouched in the 
 cash-book. 
 
 20408. It appears that you have to turn over the leaves of the cash-book to search for 
 each particular tr.msaetion ? — In order to make out the disbursement, it is so. 
 
 20409. In order to make out the state of the funds ? — The disbursements. 
 
 20410. Do the debits appear in the disbursement book? — They do not appear in the 
 disbursement book, but they appear here. 
 
 20411. Where?— In this "cash-book. 
 
 20412. AVlio was it that audited these accounts? — They were audited by a committee 
 of five, appointed at the February meeting of this year. 
 
 20413. When were the accounts last audited ? — In the summer after. 
 
 20414. Who were the auditors ?— The committee of account, which consists of the Rev. 
 George Blacker, Rev. J. W. Stubbs, Stewart Blacker, Esq., and the Ilev. Henry Wcstby. 
 
 20415. If 1 understand aright from the returns you have made to the Commissioners, 
 there is annually elected a committee of account, to whom are submitted tlie accounts of 
 the income and cxjienditure of the society ? — Yes. 
 
 20410. Did they ever audit the accounts in the disbursement book? — They always look 
 at the disbursement book ; it lies on the table as a book of i-eference. 
 
 20417. Do they sign it as an audited account? — I think not usually. 
 
 20418. Not u.sually — did they ever sign it? — I cannot tell without referring to the 
 book. 
 
 20419. Take the disbursement book, and show me whether they audited it or not. In 
 point of fact, they only audit tlie account between yourself and the society? — They also 
 audit the agent's accounts. 
 
 20420 Who audits them? — The same committee. 
 
 20421. Take the cash account of the 21st of Maj', 1855, and tell me by whom it was 
 audited ? — The Rev. G. Blacker, and tlie Rev. Mr. Stubbs. The third member who usually 
 Vol. II. I
 
 llev. Kicbard Arrlill. 
 
 58 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Di'BLiN. attends, and whose name is mentioned in the preceding, Mr. Stewart Blacker, was obliged 
 
 . ^~~i c ■ to be absent. I omitted the name of one of the committee of account, Mr. Chichester O'Neill. 
 '^"inDnbUnfJr"' " 204"2'2. Then there were only two auditors uu the 21st of May ? — The third, Mr. Blacker, 
 promoting E'ntilhh was Called awaj, and was not able to attend, but he will sign it when he comes to Dublin. 
 Protestant Schmih j£. ^^ ^^^jjj j^^^^.^ ^j^^ kindness to look to tho former accounts, you will see thev are audited 
 by three; look to the account tor the 31st ot March. 
 
 20423. [Secretarij. — It is audited by three — the Key. George Blacker, the Eev. Mr. 
 Stubbs, and Mr. Stewart Blacker.] 
 
 204,24. Mr. Stephens- — Haye )'ou any accounts with the agent of your society, by which 
 you can ascertain his balance at any giyen time ? — I have not. 
 
 20425. What has the agent to show, at the settlement of his accounts, what balance is 
 in his hands, or what balance may be due to him at the close of each year ? — That appears 
 in his accounts, duplicate copies of which are handed to me, and remain with the society ; 
 the accounts are made out in duplicate. 
 
 20426. If there is a balance, in what book is that balance entered ? — In the agent's book, 
 not in mine ; my department is quite distinct from the agent's department. 
 
 20427. Is the agenfs book here? — No, sir. it is not. 
 
 20428. Is there an account kept for the committee ? — E.xccpt what the books present. 
 
 20429. It appears that you keep an account, that the agent keeps an account, but no 
 account is kept for the committee ? — The committee audits both accounts. 
 
 20430. Are there any accounts kept except the agent's account and your accounts — that 
 is, you keep an account with the society, and the agent keeps an account with the society? 
 — tes. 
 
 20431. Are there any more accounts? — No more. 
 
 20432. Are the agent's accounts audited ? — Yearly by the committee of account. My 
 account, if you allow me to explain, contains the particulars of all the money entrusted to 
 my care ; to see that it is disbursed as directed by the Board, and that vouchers shall be 
 produced for the expenditure, is my simple duty. The agent receives aU the money. 
 
 20433. So far as you are individually concerned, I am not impugning the accuracy of 
 your accounts in the slightest degree ; but what 1 want to know is, whether any account 
 is kept for the society? — I do not consider there is any account, except what I have just 
 stated to you. The agent's accounts are audited by the committee of account ; the rents 
 and other moneys received by him, are lodged in the Bank of Ireland. I have to account 
 for the drafts drawn by the society upon tlie Bank of Ireland, and committed to my charge 
 for payments. Perhaps the balance sheet, which I ordered to be sent here yesterday, 
 may be considered as an account between me, as secretary, Mr. Pidgeon, as agent, and the 
 society itself 
 
 20434. From wh:it source do you make up the debit side of that account ? — From the 
 different sums that have been received — the drafts on the Bank of Ireland, the interest on 
 the Briti.sh and Irish funds, and the agent's receijjts. 
 
 20435 I^Vom what book do you get all those figures on the debtor side of that account ? 
 — Some from the cash-book, and others from the miscellaneous disbursement book. 
 
 20436. There is the miscellaneous disbursement book, and will you show me any cori-c- 
 sponding entry ? 
 
 20437. \Hecretary. — The balance sheet is founded on the cash-book, the di.sbursement 
 book, and tho agent's accounts. 1 
 
 20438. It is made up from the cash-book, which is before you, the disbursement book, 
 and the agent's accounts ; you have all the property and expenditure of the society, by this 
 account, laid in a bird's-eye view before you. 
 
 20439. Uavc you any book contahiing — to use your own language — a bird's-eye view of 
 the affairs of the society, similar to that paper now before you ? — No ; this is made out for 
 the information of the society as to the state of their finances. 
 
 20440. Is not that account made up from searching through all your books? — It is, after 
 searching tlirough all the books, every item is entered in it ; tliere is no item omitted. 
 
 2044 L Would not a proper ledger have produced similar i-csults ? — I think it would; 
 in my opinion, it would. I have nothing to say to the agent's accounts; I am accountable 
 only for my own department. 
 
 20442. It is quite clear if you had not charge of the agent's accounts, you could not 
 have made out a ledger ; therefore the fault or blame rests with the committee. You 
 kept an account with the society — the agent kept an account with tlie society — but there 
 has been no account kept for the society, and tliat is the source of all tliose difficulties, 
 
 20443. Mr, Jlufjhcs. — I understand this balance slieet is the result of tho disbursement 
 book, the agent's book, your own book, and the cash-book. Has it ever been audited ? — 
 It has been audited by the committee of account. 
 
 20444. Wliere does it apj)ear to be audited? — Tliia account has only just been made 
 out. It is laid before the society, and audited l)y the committee of account. 
 
 2044.'5, Where does it apjioar to bo audited ? — My account? 
 
 2044G. Oh, no; was tliat balance sheet audited? — I am not aware; it was signed and 
 laid on the table, and examined. 
 
 20447. But not signed as an audited account ? — No, it was not ; but all tlie materials from 
 which this balance sheet is made out — these were all audited and signed by the committee. 
 
 20448. I'.ut the balance slnsct for the year 1854 was not audited? — No. 
 20440. Was the balance sheet for 1833 audited? — It was not signed, but it was laid on 
 
 the table, and not audited.
 
 EVIDENCE. 59 
 
 20450. Was any of tho balance slieets ever audited? — No ; but tlic matcriak from which Duni,!**. 
 the balance sliccts are formed wore audited. 
 
 204.51. Mr. Steplieas.—lf I understand you ari<;ht, tho disbursements were audited, but '""V"''''";',': '^^'""J 
 
 111- 1 • , 1 1 ■> t L 111 . 1 • I III JJithliit fur 
 
 the debits were not audited .'' — My accounts wore audited, the agent s accounts were audited, imuwiinii h:!ii<ili',h 
 
 and this balance sheet, which was laid before the society, shows Protet^iuiu .Sc'/)(»//< 
 
 204.52. Mr. //Mr//ie.9.— That was never audited. in M,m,l. 
 20J53. Mr. Stephens.— Was that ever audited?— It has not been audited. In fact, I^^'v. likhanl Ar.liil. 
 
 there wa.s no time to audit tho last one. 
 
 20454. Will that show tho £[)(), 000 in tho English funds, wliich is not shown in your 
 account, or any other account with the soci(!ty? — it shows the interest on that £96,000. 
 
 20455. Rev. Dr. Graves. — I'oes it show the principal? — No. 
 
 20456. Mr. Hughes. — Nor any part of the property in the Irish funds? — No. 
 
 20457. You stated a while ago that the stock belonging to tho society in the Irish 
 funds amounts to about £4,000. By the return you have given here it ap])ears that on the 
 11th of August, 1855, £1,5615 15.?. 8d. was in the Irish funds, and no more. Will you 
 point out to me any page in any book tliat will sliow how that sum lias been increased ? — 
 There are different accountsapplicable to different properties, whicli are specified; and if you 
 will have the kindness to showthemto the Commissioners, they will seethe explanation of that. 
 
 20458. The question I asked was this, Mr. Ardill : in the return under date of 11th of 
 August, 1855, signed by yourself, I believe, you return £1,563 6s. Sd. in the Irish three 
 and a- quarter per cents. ; would you show me what entry in any book of the society records 
 the existence of that fund? — I must i^elect it from difi'erent entries. 
 
 20459. \_8ecretary. — The entry Mr. Ardill refers to is this : '■ To cash received at the 
 Bank of Ireland, a half year's interest on three per cent, stock, to the 5th of October, 
 1854, £25 8.?. Id."] 
 
 20460. A\'hat I want to know is : you said a wliile ago that that stock has been increased 
 
 to about £4,000 ? — I said 1 was under the impression that the whole in the Irish funds 
 
 was about £4,000. 
 
 20461. Well now, taking that statement, will you show me any entry in the books 
 recording the fact of the Irish fund amounting to any sum?— I cannot do that. 
 
 20462. The object of my question is — if these books were kept properly there would bo 
 to the debit of the society a certain amount of Irish stock, and there would be then 
 corresponding entries in discharge of that by transfers; and tliat would show the result of 
 the funds standing to the credit of the society. Is there any such book? — I have no 
 such book. 
 
 20463. How would any gentleman .inditing these accounts ascertain how much stock was 
 to the credit of the society in the Irish funds. Supposing I was now auditing these accounts, 
 and I wished to ascertain how much stock was to the credit of the society, how would I 
 ascertain that fact? — I think the way to do it would be to see the amount of interest. 
 
 20464. I beg your pardon, that would only apply to the entry of October, 1854. Here 
 is a receipt of £25 8.?. Id. by a calculation, I would ascertain, after allowing income tax 
 and other deductions, that that £25 8s. Id. ; was the product of a certain amount of stock; 
 but from the 13th October, 1854, to the present December, 1855, what set of books or what 
 details could show how that had diminished or increased? — I know of no particular books. 
 
 20465. Are there any in existence ? — None except 
 
 20466. Do not except what does not do it? — I have none to set it forth plainly before you. 
 2046T. Mr. Stephens. — ^Are the balances in your banker's account, and in your own hands 
 
 at the termination of the past year, taken as portions of the income of the current year ? — 
 Certainly. 
 
 20468. How could the balance of the past year belong to the income of the current year? 
 — It is brought forward in the account. 
 
 204C9. But that is not an income account? — If there be a balance to the credit of the 
 society on the 31st of March, that is brought forward in the account commencing the 1st 
 of April. 
 
 20470. That is, the balances of the preceding j-ear are brought forward as income for 
 the current year? — As cash for the current year. 
 
 20471. Is it then called income for the current year? — I should suppose it is. 
 
 20472. Is it called income? — I think so. It is available for the current expenses of the 
 present year. 
 
 20473. There is the following clause in the charter of Geo. II.: — "Provided always, 
 and we do hereby expressly declare our lloyal will and pleasure to be, that it shall not be 
 lawful for the said society to diminish their capital stock, arising from the annual rent or 
 inoome of any manors, lands, tenements, annuities, pensions, tithes, or other heredita- 
 ments, whereof thoy shall at any time be seized or possessed, by gift, purchase, or devise; 
 but they shall confine their expenses yearly to such annual rent, or income, and to such 
 sums of money, goods, and chattels, as shall from year to year be subscribed or given to 
 them, or the interest and profits thereof." Has the language of that chart.er been altered 
 or qualified by any subsequent charter? — I am not aware that it has. 
 
 20474. If it be in force at the present moment, how do you justify the taking of the 
 balance of the preceding year, and dealing with it as income of the current year ? Why do 
 you not, in other language, make the balance of the year capital ? — I suppose, because it is 
 required for the expenditure of the current year. 
 
 20475. You arc bound by your charter to confine yourself within certain limits ; but 
 you have gone beyond them, because you take the balance of the preceding year, and 
 
 Vol. II. I 2
 
 in Jrehtifl. 
 Rev. Rifhanl ArJill. 
 
 60 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Drui.i.N. you put it down as income for tlie current year, and spend them both. Now, I want to 
 
 — ■ . . "know whv you do not, when vou have a balance in hands at the end of the year, make 
 
 inVMin for ' Capital ot it / — Why is the balance not tundrd / 
 
 uTomiiiiiiii EmilixU 20476. Yes? — I cannot tell that. The statute, I suppose, was overlooked, or considered 
 
 Protesianf SrlmiU QJjgolete. The charter of Geo. II. was in some cases repealed, but I do not know whether 
 
 that clause was repealed. The charter of Geo. II. stated that the society should not possess 
 
 property exceeding £2,000 a-year in lands, I believe. Then in a subsequent reign there 
 
 was jicrmission given to hold land to the amount of £5,000. I do not know whether the 
 
 clause you refer to was repealed. 
 
 20477- You have stated that annual balance sheets of the affairs of the society are placed 
 before the committee annually ? — Yes. 
 
 20478. AVhere are those balance sheets entered in your books ? — They are not entered 
 in the books. They are extracted from the books, and they are preserved. 
 
 20479. Have you such balance sheets in your office? — Yes. Perhaps you would allov? 
 me to remark, with reference to the balance which appeared to tlic credit of the society 
 on foot of my account of 3 1st of March last, that it was money that I expected would have 
 been called for in the month of JIarch ; it was for the purpose of meeting the expenditure 
 of the new building at Athlone ; but the builder did not perform his work as expeditiously 
 as he promised, and the architect did not certify for him. There had been a building 
 committee appointed, who were authorized to pay the builder as soon as the committee was 
 entitled to the money; but delays occurred, and the money was not ]>aid until after the 
 termination of that year. Now it would place the society in a difficult position, having 
 directed the buildings to be proceeded with, and the builder not having called for his 
 money in time, if that money had been funded. 1 suggested to the committee — "Here is 
 this balance, I will fund it if you like." They said — "■ If you fund it, Ave will only, perhaps, 
 be obliged to sell out the stock to pay the builder. ^Ve do not know how soon the build- 
 ing may be completed, and it is better to keep it in our hands, to pay the man, when the 
 building is finished." It would have placed the society in a difficult pooition, if that money, 
 which was provided for the payment of the builder, had been funded when he called for it. 
 
 "20480. How long i.s it since you have made out these balance sheets annually ? — I think 
 I have them for five or six years. 
 
 20481. AVhy did you not make them out from 1S44 to 1849? — Indeed, I cannot say 
 ■whether they existed then or not. There was a delicate man in the office at that time 
 acting as clerk, and I cannot say whether he made out the balance sheets or not ; but I 
 know the accounts were annually submitted to the committee of account, and laid before 
 the society at their annual meeting. 
 
 20482. What accounts? — Those accounts which arc now before you — the cash-books, 
 and the disbursement book. 
 
 20483. Were the balance sheets annually supplied ? — I am not aware ; I cannot say that 
 the balance sheets were supplied every year. 
 
 20484. May we take it as a fact, that from 1844 to 1849 there were no balance sheets? 
 — That is a difficult question, 
 
 20485. Mr. Ilughts. — Surely you said a while ago you had the balance sheets for any 
 time they are in existence. If they exist, are they not in the office? — It would be 
 necessary for me to look over them, to tell you -whether I had them, or had them not, for 
 the period required ; but to say I have them uninterruptedly since the year 1842, 1 would 
 not hazard the assertion, I have them for some years past, and the Commissioners can 
 have them, if they please. 
 
 2048f). Mr. Stej/hens. — Have you any account of the assets and liabilities of the society, 
 showing the value of their property, and the balance due, if any, by the agent? — I have not. 
 
 20487. Has the committee any such account? — No ; except the agent's accounts, which 
 show the balances, if any, that arc due upon the several estates. 
 
 20488. Then, in point of fact, there is no account showing the assets and liabilities 
 of the society ? — Except the account of the agent, which shows them, I believe, pretty 
 plainly. 
 
 20489. Have you any stock account for the agricultural farms, showing the purchase 
 and .sale of stock and farming produce ? — Yes. 
 
 20490. AVhcre is it to be found? — You will find the particulars in the disbursement book. 
 
 2049 1. A\'ill you be so good as to turn to any jjarticular entry — take the Farra projicrty ; 
 does the account under that head contain any entries but disbursements ? — No. 
 
 20492. Have you any book that does? — The casli-book contains any receipts that may 
 liav(^ been had. 
 
 2049;5. Arc they posted ? — They are posted in the cash-book. 
 
 20494. They are entered in the cash-book, but not posted into any ledger ? — No. 
 
 20495. How can you ascertain the profit or loss upon your transactions with respect to 
 the Farra farm? — -By adding up the whole exi)enditure. and then all the recei]its. 
 
 2049f). Tell me, from your books, what was the jirofit or loss iiy that establishment in 
 1854 ?— It did not exist in 1854. 
 
 20497. Take any time when it did exist? — I could not make it up, exc(^pt I totted up 
 the whole of one side of the account, and totted up the whole of the other. 
 
 20498. Is the disbursement totted up ? — It apj)ears in the cash-book, but not added up, 
 
 20499. Mr. Ilnt/hes.—ln iMarch, 1851, the expeiuiiturc on the Farra school was 
 £1,275 18. 8d. ; wiiat arc the receipts from the I'arra school? — I should go to the cash- 
 book to ascertain.
 
 EVIDENCE. 61 
 
 20500. Mr. Stephens. — Your accounts indicate that you have kept a fjue-siJcd ledger '? JJLiai.N. 
 
 — All the nuineys I have rcu'eived are accounted for. , ~~ .. . , 
 
 20.501. Mr. Iliir/hes. — Mr. Ardill, suiiposo tlie Committee of I'llteen meet in the month of in l)ni,l,„ fcr ' 
 March, 18.51, for tlie ])iirj)Ose, among otlier things, of deciding whetlier tlie Farra CKtab- /'iwnn/imi Ennlixh 
 lishment should he continued or not, the dishunsenient l)Ook will show an expenditure of ''''tn'j"c'i,u,'d''''''' 
 £1,275 ; but Avill any part of it show wiiether it would he expedient to continue it or not ? j.^.^ Kidiard .Vrdiil. 
 — That book will not. 
 
 20502. Will any other book, by any set of entries, confined to the Farra establiishnient, 
 do .so? — Not confined to the l'"arra estahlislitncnt. 
 
 20503. Then, the process to ascertain whether it was expedient to continue the estab- 
 lishment or not should be this — to extract from the cash-book the items that have been 
 applied to the Farra establishment ? — Yes. 
 
 20504. Then, in point of fact, the committee should have to post a regular set of books ? 
 — Precisely. 
 
 20505. And that would be the business of the committee ? 
 
 20506. Mr. Stephens. — Can you, from your books, tell me what was the profit or loss, in 
 respect to your transactions with the Farra farm, for the year 1853? — 'J'he books will tell. 
 
 20507. State, will you ? — I should have to extract it from the ca.sh-book. 
 
 20508. Mr. Iluejkes. — That is, you will have to post your books? — Yes. 
 
 20509. Mr. Stephens. — Does it not show an irregular system of keeping accounts, 
 that, in order to ascertain your profit and loss upon the transactions of 1853, in respect 
 to the Farra farm, you will be obliged to go over all the books? — I would be obhged 
 to do so. 
 
 20510. Do you call that a regular system of keeping accounts? — I think there could he 
 a better system. 
 
 205 11. Mr. Hughes. — Do you not perceive, Mr. Ardill, that no committee could audit the 
 accounts with such materials before them. If we were now called upon to audit these 
 accounts, our bus'ness, instead of checking tliom, would be to post them. The auditors 
 may have the means of making up the accounts, but they have not flic means of auditing? 
 —1 admit, in consequence of what has fallen from you and the other Commissioners, that 
 it would be much better to have these accounts kept separately, in a separate ledger ; 
 and I will suggest to the society to do so. It would be much more satisfactory, I think, 
 and save a great deal of trouble. 
 
 205 12. Mr. Stephens. — I perceive the rental of the two estates exceeds £6.000 per annum ; 
 do you keep an account of these estates, showing the total rents received, the amount of 
 cash deductions, and the arrears duo by tenants ? — 1 do not ; the agent does ; it is not in 
 my department ; my duty is, to attend to the directions of the Committee of Fifteen, and 
 the general Board; to carry out their wishes, to account for moneys that come into 
 my charge, and to produce vouchers for the payments ; that is my business ; but it is not 
 my business to audit the agent's accounts ; they are audited by the committee appointed 
 by the society for the purpose. 
 
 20513. So far as your accounts with the society are concerned, I have not the slightest 
 objection to make against them ; they appear to be very regularly kept — and kept with a 
 considerable degree of diligence ; but what I complain of is, that there has been no account 
 kept for the society ; and if there was no account kept for the society, it was utterly 
 impossible to have these accounts properly audited: and whoever audited these accounts, did 
 not do their duty. 
 
 20514. Rev. Dr. Graves. — ih-. Ardill, at the inquiry held before the Commissioners 
 yesterday, a statement was made to the effect that the expenditure of the Incorj)orated 
 Society was, in some in.stances, extravagant. I wish to ask some questions with reference 
 to that point. Would you be so good as to state what is the amount of expenses incurred 
 each year under the head of " Society's House?" — It is about £300, which includes the 
 rent. I should observe that the rent of the house is £200, late currency ; then the other 
 expenses make up about £300, all of which is stated in the disbursement book. 
 
 "20515. Will you be so good as to read the items and the outlay for one year ? — Will 
 you allow my clerk to read them ? 
 
 20516. If you please. Take the last year for which they are made up. 
 
 20517. [Mr. Hiirjhes Take the year 1853 or 1854 ?— The book is made up to 1855. 
 
 20518. The following items from the disbursement book, commencing Ajiril 5th, 1854, 
 and ending March 29th, IS55, are read: — 
 
 1851. 
 April 5th, By cash to Janaes Mangan for Logwood supplied, 
 
 „ 12th, „ Income Tax on Soclctv-hou.sc for year euded 20;h 
 March, 1851,. .".... 
 
 „ 18th, „ Pari.sh Clerk, fee, due Easter, 1854, 
 
 „ 20th, „ R. Hoey, for 25 tons of coal for year to end 25th June, 
 1854, . _ . . . 
 
 June 9th, „ Wra. Evan.«, for painting exterior of windows, whitewash- 
 ing hall, passages, stables, kc, 
 
 „ 12th, „ Jane Charters, for caring Society-house and cleaning 
 otiiccs during- quarter ending 24th Juno 1854, 
 
 „ 30th, ,, Parish Cess, made Easter, 1854, . 
 
 „ „ „ James Lord, for sweeping before Society-house and iu 
 
 York-row, for 13 weeks euded 21)th June, 1854, 
 
 
 £ 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 1 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 1 
 
 IG 
 
 9 
 
 40 
 
 
 
 .) 
 
 
 
 49 
 
 27 
 
 C 
 
 C 
 
 50 
 
 11 
 
 17 
 
 G 
 
 77 
 
 o 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 82 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 11 
 
 
 
 
 13 
 

 
 62 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 DtmLiN. 
 
 Incorporated Soci^ 
 
 in Dublin for 
 
 promotiny Ent/lisli 
 
 Protestant Schools 
 
 in frelnnd. 
 
 Rut. Hiehurd Ardill. 
 
 1855. 
 July 20th, By Sun Fire Office, one year's premium of insurance against 
 fire, due 24th June, 1<854, to end 24th June, 1855, . 
 Do., the like on household goods, for same period, 
 Aug. 5th, „ Cash to Mr. Pairciough for winding and repairing clock, 
 
 for year ended 25th June, 1854, 
 Sept. 6th, „ Simmons and Walpole, for towelling, itc, supplied for 
 offices, ...... 
 
 „ 9th, „ Wm. Evans, for glazincr, cleaning house and offices on 
 sundry occasions, cleaning windows, &c., to this date, . 
 Oct. 7th, „ Jane Charters, for takingcare of Society-house, and clean- 
 ing offices, during qu.arter ended 24th September, 1854, 
 ,, „ „ James Lord, for sweeping before Society-house and in 
 York-row for 13 weeks ended 29th Sejitembcr, 1854, . 
 Nov. 16th, „ James Mangan for a load of bog-wood supplied, . 
 Dec. 2nd, ,, Robert Sniyley, for smith work, .... 
 
 „ 16th, „ L. A. Bryan, for articles of ironmongery, brushes, mats, 
 &c., supplied,. ..... 
 
 „ 18th, „ Jane Charters, for taking care of Society-house, and clean- 
 ing offices, during quarter ended 24th December, 1854, 437 
 „ 30th ,, James Lord, for sweeping before Society-house and in 
 
 York-row for 13 weeks to 29th December, 1854, 
 „ 18th, „ Robert Hoey, for 25 tons of coal supplied, for year ending 
 25th June, 1855, at ISs., .... 
 
 ȣ 
 
 1855. 
 
 Jan. 17th, 
 „ 18th, 
 „ 20th, 
 
 March lOtb, 
 
 13th, 
 29th, 
 
 James Mangan, for a load of bogwood supplied, . 
 
 Income Tax for year to end 20th March, 1855, . 
 
 R. Smiley, for repairs to locks and keys, 
 
 Consolidated Rates for the year 1855, viz. — Sewer Rate, 
 Police Tax, Grand Jury Cess, Poor Rate at 3s. per £, 
 IraproTeniont Rate, Pipe-water Rent, &c., 
 
 James Mangan, for a load of bogwood supplied, . 
 (See entry on next page, 269.) 
 
 L. E. Poot, Esq., half-3'ear's rent, due 25th 
 
 March, 1855, . . . . £92 6 2 
 
 Less income Tax on premises (Y^ork-row 
 included'^ for half-year ended 25th March, 
 1855, . . . . . 3 10 7 
 
 122 
 
 3 
 
 14 
 
 3 
 
 123 
 
 
 
 15 
 
 9 
 
 131 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 6 
 
 244 
 
 
 
 16 
 
 4 
 
 336 
 
 3 
 
 17 
 
 10 
 
 347 
 
 3 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 
 
 399 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 
 
 405 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
 431 
 
 8 
 
 17 
 
 9 
 
 437 
 
 3 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 
 
 441 
 
 22 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 462 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 
 
 464 
 
 3 
 
 13 
 
 6 
 
 482 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 630 
 
 23 
 
 3 
 
 9 
 
 635 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 
 
 Jane Charters, for taking care of Society-house and clean- 
 ing offices, for quarter ended 24th March, 1855, 
 
 Cash to James Lord, for sweeping before Society-house and 
 in York-row, during 13 weeks ended 2 9th March, 1855, 
 
 Simmons and Walpole, for rubbers, dusters, aud towels 
 for offices, supplied in December, 1854, 
 
 L. E. Foot, Esq., half-year's rent, due 29th 
 
 September, 1854, . . . £92 6 2 
 
 Poor Rate, May, 1854,at Gd. (being 
 
 a supplemental rate), . .£170 
 
 Income Tax for year ended March, 
 1854, at 7d., and for half-year, 
 as above, at Is. 2d. (being total 
 amount paid on premises in Aun- 
 gier-street and York-row for said 
 period), . . .712 
 
 692 
 
 88 15 
 
 7 
 
 694 
 
 3 18 
 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 
 
 706 
 
 1 
 
 3 
 
 8 8 2 
 
 484 83 18 
 
 (See entry in Cash-book, of 25th January, 1855.) 
 „ ., „ Supplemental Poor Rate, made 29(h May, 1854, at Gd., 
 
 (sec entry of 30tli Scj)tenibcr, 1854, in cash-book), . 346 1 11 6 
 
 1, „ „ A. llaughton, for rei)airs to window blinds and removing 
 
 the hangings (sec entry in cash bookjoflSth Dec. 1854) 433 9 
 
 £306 18 8] 
 
 20.519. You will bear in mind that of that £306 18.9. Sd. there are £200, late currency, 
 payable in rent to Mr. Foot ; but, at tlio same time, this is to be taken into consideration. 
 There being an extensive rere to the house, the society, some years ago, thought it expe- 
 dient to convert tliisrereto some use; and tliey cut oil' the end adjoining Wliitcfriar-strcct, and 
 liuUt on it two houses, the rent of which is received by the agent, which is in some measure 
 a set-off against this expenditure. I think the houses produce a sum of nearly £".50 a-year. 
 
 20520. llev. Dr. Graves. — Have you any recollection what it cost to build them ? — I 
 have not ; they were built several years before I was connected with tlie society ; but, of 
 course, that can bo ascertained. 
 
 20.52 1 . What is the tenure by wliicii the society liolds the house ? — 1 am sorry to say it 
 is a lease for ever. 
 
 20522. There is a charge, for the rent of the house, fixed on the society by deed, and 
 reduction, in that respect, is placed beyond its power? — ft is held by lease. This house, 
 for which we pay so much, is valued, I think, at £5.'] under the valuation, and I was anxious, 
 of course, to relievo the society from the payment of nearly £200 a-year, if possible. I
 
 EVIDENCE. 03 
 
 should state also that the house is given me as a rcsidonco, but 1 would prefer a residence Dubun. 
 
 in a more wliolcsomc place, if it could ho so arranged. However, I did all in my power 
 
 to part with the house, but the proprietor told mo lie could make no reduction, as he tncvrpomted SmAety 
 held it under settlement. The only way we should be likely to get rid of it would be, by promoulu/ Eki/lish 
 some person taking it for the purpose of using it as a large commercial establishment ; or PmieKtant sdwuU 
 else, in the event of tlie projected j)lan being carried out of making a street from York- '" ^"^^'""^• 
 
 street to St. Patrick's Catliedral, on to Francis-street, so as to connect tlie soutli with the ^'''■- "'f''"'''' -^'•'^'"• 
 east and west ends of the city. E.Kcept by cither of these means, I do not see any chance 
 of getting rid of tlie house. I have done every thing in my power, for this purpose, short 
 of proposing to purchase it. 
 
 20523. Of tlie £306 18s. 8d., just now stated as having been the total amount of the 
 house expenditure, £I82 of the present currency was paid in the shape of rent? — Yes; 
 and there is the large sum of £23 Ss. !)(Z. for taxes. 
 
 20.324. After deducting the charges tliat arc jiayable for rent, rates, and taxes, what do 
 you suppose to be the amount of the charges for the maintenance of the establishment? — - 
 Something very trifling indeed. There is Lv. a-week paid to a man for sweeping before 
 the door; and there are tis. aweek paid to a person who cares the house and cleanses the 
 offices; and there is occasionally an outlay of 12s. for bogwood, as you perceive. 
 
 20525. The registrar living in the house is allowed fuel ? — I am nominally resident in 
 the house ; I am there every day in the week except Friday ; and I sleep there occasionally 
 during the week ; but there is no officer resident in the house. The agent of the estate 
 has an office in the house ; and the society, of course, holds its Board meetings there. The 
 rest of the house is mine, as a residence, and it was computed as part of my salary when I 
 was appointed. 
 
 2052(i. You have already mentioned the amount of your salary and allowances — what 
 arrangement is made respecting the payment of small outgoings? — I keep an incidental 
 book, in which 1 enter postage stamps, and matters of that kind ; I submit this to the 
 committee of account, who examine it. 
 
 20527. Do you think that if the society was relieved from the necessity of holding its 
 office in that house, it would bo possible, to any considerable extent, to diminish the 
 annual outgoings, under the head of management and office ? — I think not. I would 
 be glad the Commissioners would bear in mind that there is but one clerk allowed; and if 
 he was not a person of considerable ability, and untiring industry, he would not be able to 
 discharge the duties. Though, nominally, four o'clock is the hour for closing the office, he is 
 frequently required to work until ten o'clock at night. The only other officer is a porter, 
 who ojiens the door, and also acts as messenger. The only saving which could be made, 
 was that which I contemplated, and which I wish to eifect; namely, parting with the house, and 
 getting one elsewhere, in a more convenient and healthful situation, at perhaps half the rent. 
 
 20528. Does the Committee of Fifteen superintend, in any way, the financial affairs of 
 the society, or are they left entirely under the control of the committee of account ? — The 
 Committee of Fifteen order and direct every expenditure; aiid the committee of account 
 have no further power than as members of the Committee of Fifteen. 
 
 20529- Then the duty of the committee of account is more to audit than to regulate the 
 expenditure ? — It is their duty to audit, not to regulate the expenditure. For instance, if 
 any individual member of the committee of account found an item in the accounts of which 
 he disapproved, it would not be in his power to reject that item, if it had been previously 
 ordered by the Committee of Fifteen. 
 
 20530. How is the Committee of Fifteen selected ? — It is chosen out of the members of 
 the society each February. 
 
 20531. Will you be so good as to state how the selection is made? — In the mode pointed 
 out by the statute which you have before you. 
 
 20532. That is by ballot?— By ballot. By the Act of Charles II., the president and 
 vice-president, the Committee of Fifteen, the committee of account, the secretary, and the 
 treasurer, are all selected by ballot. 
 
 20533. Are there any other sub- committees subordinate to the general governing body, 
 besides the committee of account ? — There is not, unless occasionally there is a sub-com- 
 mittee appointed for a particular purjjose. For instance — while the Athlone buildings were 
 in progress of erection, there was a sub-committee formed for the purpose of going down 
 to inspect them, and seeing that they w"ere being carried on as directed. This committee 
 always availed themselves of their visit to these buildings to examine the children in the 
 school. It consisted of three members, myself, and the agent. The three members were 
 the Rev. Mr. Blacker, Mr. Stewart Blacker, and the Rev. Mr. Stubbs. 
 
 20534. How are sub-committees of the kind in general selected ; is the selection left to 
 any individual, or to the general body ? — I think the selection is generally made of persons 
 who find it most convenient to go to such a distance, or who may be most conversant with 
 building, or the particular duties for which they are appointed. They are not often 
 appointed, as I remarked before. There was another committee which was estabhshed 
 some years ago, (the Santry committee), while the building was being erected at Santry; 
 but as soon as the building was completed, that committee was dissolved. In like manner 
 the committee that went down last summer to inspect the buildings at Athlone, as soon as 
 the works were completed, and the builder's account discharged, was dissolved, and at an 
 end. There is now no sub-committee. 
 
 20535. Are the names of the persons that arc proposed to act on such sub-committee, ever 
 discussed at any previous meeting of the Committee of Fifteen prior to their ultimate
 
 04 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMj\nSSION. 
 
 DiiuLiN. nppointment? — They never are. It is merely a committee for a temporary and special 
 
 , ~~, ., . , purpose, and its labours perhaps terminate in a few months or weeks. 
 
 in Biihlin fur ' 20obo. VV hat Steps are taken to secure an examination and inspection of the schools ? 
 
 pnmiotiii;/ Eiii/H.-i/i They are inspected bv visitors, and an annual dejnitation i'rom the societv. 
 '''"Ti'lrehlnl""''' "-O-^^? What steps are taken previous to the appointment of this deputation ?— At the 
 l{ev Ri.har.l Ardill i^^ceting ill February, wlien these committees to which I have alluded are appointed, the 
 deputation for the eusuin"; year is appointed; and their office is to visit all the schools, and 
 all the institutions under the Incorjioratcd Society, to examine the state of the houses, and 
 so on ; to examine the children, and to admit a certain number of children who may present 
 themselves for admission into the several schools. 
 
 20538. Do you think that this appointment of an annual deputation is sufficient to secure 
 a suitable examination into the condition and management of the schools? — I think it is, when 
 you bear in recollection that we have an efficient ofKcer on the spot, whose duty it is to 
 visit the institution weekly, to catechise the children, and examine all the details of the 
 establishment ; to see all the accounts which are about to be transmitted to the society, 
 and vouch for their correctness; and to recommend any works that may be expedient, and 
 which the master may suggest. The catechist is not merely our officer as regards cate- 
 chetical instruction, but he is our officer, whose duty it is to see that the establishment is 
 properly kept in all its departments, and that the expenditures are fair and reasonable. If 
 such an officer were not on the spot, 1 should think that the visit of the deputation once a 
 year would not be sufficient ; but there are other occasions on which a deputation goes down, 
 consisting of one or two members, who inspect the schools, and examine the children, and 
 also report on the state in which they iind them ; which reports are submitted to the 
 society. 
 
 20539. Is notice given of the intention of the annual deputation to visit each particular 
 school? — Oh, yes ; there is notice given for six weeks, or perhaps two months preceding, in 
 ■order that the master of each institution may give notice to all parties who are to bo sent 
 in as candidates for the different scholarships; but as regards the individual visits which I 
 •occasionally make, I never give any notice, because I always expect, and 1 am happy to say, 
 .have almost invariably found the institution or school in a presentable state, that is, in good 
 working order, and thei'cfore I never give any notice of my intention to visit any of the 
 
 :Schools. 
 
 20540. In fact, do you think it advisable that the schools should be from time to time 
 visited without any notice of an intention to inspect being [ireviously given ? — I think it is 
 desirable, and always thought so. 
 
 20541. Do you think it likely that a number of gentlemen will always be procured of 
 sufficient ability and experience to conduct the examinations, and who will devote their 
 time to that labour gratuitously, as they do at present ? — 1 should hope so. There is a 
 lively interest manifested on the i)art ol' the gentlemen connected with the Incorporated 
 Society, perhaps at personal inconvenience, and certainly after a great deal of labour, in 
 preparing the course of examination; and they discharge their duties most conscientiously. 
 
 20542. How long has this system of inspection been in operation? — It connnencod, I 
 think, immediately after my ajjpointnient as secretary; I think about the year 1842 or 
 lt>43, or earlier; for I remember going to Dundalk and visiting when I was a member of 
 
 tlie society. I think it commenced about the year 1640; that is, they visited not all 
 the institutions, but the principal ones. 
 
 20543. Docs not the efficiency of such an inspection depend very much on the zeal and 
 ability of two or three persons who may be interested in the welfare of the society? — i 
 think so; and every year we find a higher order of education prevailing in the institutions. 
 
 20544. As the labour and responsibility of conducting the office of inspection increases, 
 as it ap]K'ars it must, do you not think it will be difficult to secure tlie services of 
 thoroughly efficient inspectors, acting gratuitously? — As yet we have found no difficulty. 
 We have usually men who have been distinguished men in our university, who have taken 
 a part in those inspections. We had for some years Dr. Torter, who has gone to live 
 in the north of Ireland ; Mr. Stubbs, a clergyman of the diocese of Armagh, and a fellow- 
 ship man of Trinity College, an excellent examiner; and wo have Mr. Illacker, who is a 
 scholar of the university — lie has been a very admirable and efficient examiner, and as yet 
 we have found no difficulty in procuring com])(tent I'xamiuers. I should tell you that 
 these gentlemen, before tiiey go on the deputation, apply themselves to study, with 
 great care, the several subjects in which they are to examine. 
 
 20545. If less pains were taken with these inspections, the efficiency of the schools must 
 be very much diminished ? — -I think there is uo money that the Incorporated Society ex])end8 
 that is more usefully laid out than the expenses of the deputation. The expenses to 
 whicli I allude are n\erely the travelling expenses. There is no icmnneration given to 
 t!u! memljers ; ami I again repeat, tlierc! is no money more usefully laid out tiian that 
 money laid out for the travelling exjienses of the deputation. 
 
 20540. Do you not think it would be desirable if you had more than one authoritative 
 inspection in the course of the year? — I think it would be desirable; but you must bear 
 in mind that these gentlemen act gratuitously; and being clergymen hitherto, would not 
 perlia])s find it so convenient to leave tlieir ])arishes twice a-year on a visit that would keep 
 them SIX or seven weeks. 
 
 li()547. AJy question bore directly on that ])oint. I asked it for the j)urpose of showing 
 the dilliculty of maintaining an efficient system ol inspection carried on by unpaid 
 inspectors. — As yet wo have found no difficulty ; what may take place hereafter 1 cannot
 
 Kcv. liicliuril Arilill. 
 
 EVIDENCE. 65 
 
 saj. The Commissioners will bear in mind, that, the catccliist, who is usually a clergyman Diju.ih. 
 
 of the parish, though not always so — for the society selects its own catechist — has his • 
 
 attention directed to the institution during the week, in all its dc^partments. ''''li''j)iiiJiit tZ'' '' 
 
 20548. The deputation is respoiisihle for selection to scholarships; what steps do thoy jir'wintin;/ FmiIM 
 talce to ascertain the ellici(Uicy of tlie sclioohnastcr or sclioolmistress ? — I think that is l^r^.i.^iina Srimnh 
 pretty evident from the progress made hy tlie pupils. Of course, an efficitnit schoolmaster 
 or schoolmistress would be very likely to turn out boys or girls who would asjuro to 
 honors, and be successful as candidates for scholarships; but the society always, in the 
 selection to scholarships, takes into consideration positive, not relative merit; and if there 
 bo no positive merit in one ])nrticular school, tliey will not select there, but the scholar- 
 shi]) will be kept open for a school where a more deserving cindidate (wliiluts himself 
 
 20.549. Do tlu! meml)ers of tlu; de])utation ever call upon the teachers to teach a class in 
 their presence for the purpose of testing their capacity to give instruction? — That is, the 
 teachers of our own schools? 
 
 20550. Yes ? — That is very rarely done ; but the teachers of our own schools undergo 
 a very rigid examination Ijefore their ap|)oiiitmei)t. and then they are appointed subject to 
 the approval of tlie de]>utation that will visit in tlie ensuing year; so that there is oi)por- 
 tunity of judging in the interim of their cai)ability, by ascertaining what progress lias been 
 made by the puj)ils committed to their charge. 
 
 20551. In case a master in one of your schools should become incompetent, from age 
 or infirmity, to give adequate instruction, in what manner would you deal with him ? — In 
 that case an efficient a^^sistant would be apjjointed, or the master would receive a pension- 
 he would become an annuitant on the society. 
 
 20552. Have you any scale of j)ensions laid down ? — Yes ; we have a number of annui- 
 tants who became so at the time the Government grants were withdrawn, and the schools 
 were reduced in number. A scale .vas then laid down, which has been acted on generally 
 since. 
 
 20553. Are there any annuities paid by the society except to retireil schoolmasters ? — 
 Yes; to schoolmistresses and usheresses. There arc pensions jiaid to four invalid women, I 
 may now term them, of £7 a-year each, for maintenance and clotliing, who were reared in 
 Kevin-street, but they are now in the county Wexford. Tliere is an annuity to the assistant 
 registrar, who was assistant to my predecessor. 
 
 20554. AVhat is his name? — !Mr. Pidgeon. 
 
 20555. On what ground is that annuity paid ? — Because the office which he held under 
 the society for many years, with great advantage to the public service, was done away 
 ■with at the time of my apjjointment. .My predecessor was allowed an assistant to discharge 
 liis arduous duties, and that a.ssistant was i\lr. Pidgeon. At the time of my a])pointmeiit 
 it was, by a resolution of the Board, decided that the incoming secretary should discharge 
 the duties of his office without an assistant ; and it was then proposed and unanimously 
 carried, that this officer, who had been many years connected with the society, and showed 
 he was a most efficient and trustworthy man, should receive a pension of £100 a-year, of 
 which he is at present in the enjoyment. 
 
 20556. Had he become, from ill healtli, incapable of rendering assistance in any office 
 of the society ? — He had not ; but his office was done away with. 
 
 20557. Had he no farther connexion with the society? — Yes; he was then appointed 
 agent to the society. 
 
 20558. He had previously been assistant agent and as.sistant secretary or registrar : what 
 were his duties as assistant registrar ? — He is agent at present. 
 
 20559. Would you explain the exact nature of the duties which he performed as assistant 
 registrar or as assistant secretary ? — His duties were, I suppose, somewhat similar to those 
 which I am now discharging: constantly to attend at the society-house in discharge of the 
 society's business, attend the Boards and committees, and make minutes of the proceed- 
 ings, and carry out the directions of the Boards and committees, under, of course, the 
 direction of my predecessor. 
 
 20560. Mr. Stephens. — Before he was appointed assistant registrar what were his occu- 
 pations in life — was he a member of any profession ? — No : ho was a young man ; I believe 
 ho was not of any profession. I might, perhaps, remark I was present at the Board when 
 that annuity was granted to Mr. Pidgeon. It was proposed by the late Dr. Elrington, and it 
 was unanimously adopted, because the society appreciated the services of ilr. Pidgeon, as 
 assistant registrar, and also as assistant agent. 
 
 20561. Rev. Dr. Graves. — AVhat was his duty as assistant agent? — I suppose (I cannot 
 speak of my own knowledge), Mr. Otway being agent as well as secretary, that ilr. 
 Pidgeon's duties were to visit the several estates of the society, collect the rents, and lodge 
 them in the Bank of Ireland, under the directions of Mr. Otwa}'. 
 
 20562. He now holds the more confidential and higher post of agent under the society ? 
 — He is solely confined to that office. 
 
 20563. Have j-ou mentioned his salary ? — It is a per ccntage iijion the rents. 
 
 20564. In the last accounts the agency fees are set down as £'17jo As. \\d. : he received 
 that, exclusive of the annuity whicli you mentioned was given to him as a compensation 
 for losing the former situation of assistant agent ? — The annuity is exclusive of what he 
 derives from his agency, of course. 
 
 20565. Ai-e his travelling expenses as agent paid ? — He pays these, as well as his clerks 
 and assistants. 
 
 20566. Mr. Stepliens. — What are his duties as agent ? — His duties are to visit the different 
 Vol. II. K
 
 66 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Incorporated Societi/ 
 
 in Dublin for 
 
 promotiny Eni/lijii 
 
 Protestant Schools 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 Rev. Riclianl Aniill 
 
 estates, to receive the rents, carrj-outthe directions of the societyasregards the buildings, 
 or the allowances to be made to the tenants for slates or for timber ; superintend the 
 drainage of the farms ; to add small farms, if necessary, to larger ones; and inquire gene- 
 rally into the condition of the tenantry, and report the result to the society. 
 
 20567. You liave stated that part of liis duty was to superintend the drainage on the 
 estates, how did his previous occupations in life qualify him for such an important depart- 
 ment of farming ? — I should think they did. 
 
 20568. How so ? — Because he is a very intelligent man, and is himself a landed pro- 
 prietor, and understands perfectly the value and cultivation of land. 
 
 2056!). rrevious to his appointment was he not employed in your office? — lie was 
 employed in the office. 
 
 20570. Was there any agricultural draining there ? — No. 
 
 20571. Then whatever knowledge he acquired in respect of drainage, must have been 
 acquired after his appointment as agent ? — Yes. 
 
 20572. Then at the time of his appointment as agent he knew nothing of the drainage 
 of farms ? — He was, before his appointment to th ^ situation of agent, the assistant of 
 Mr. Otway ; and while he assisted him, I have no doubt he applied his abihty to improving 
 lumself in every waj-, as regards the value of land, and its cultivation. 
 
 20573. Can you tell me what previous knowledge ho had of judging whether a farm was 
 managed in a husband-like manner, or what means he had of acquiring that knowledge 
 previous to his ajipointment ? — I cannot tell. He has land in the county Kildare, and I 
 suppose he superintends the management of that land. 
 
 20574. What is the extent of that land ? — I do not know what extent it is, but I 
 believe it is a very valuable farm. 
 
 20575. Was that farm sufKciently extensive, and was his leisure sufficiently great, to 
 enable him, during the time he was in your office, to acquire a knowledge of farming ? — 
 I really do not feel competent to give an opinion on the ability or opportunities afforded 
 to Mr. Pidgeon, to improve his knowdedge of farming : but I do not hesitate to say, there 
 are vei-y few men in Ireland whom I would more gladly consult on the value or improve- 
 ment of land. 
 
 20576. Perhaps so ; but my question is, what knowledge he had, or what knowledge he 
 had displayed, as to the value of land, or as to the way in which the tenants should farm their 
 ground, or drain it, to justify his apjiointment to the im]jortant office of agent ? — 
 As assistant to Mr. Otway, he gave the society so much satisfaction, that they felt con- 
 vinced of his ability and integrity, and appointed him to the office of agent when Mr. 
 Otway died. 
 
 20577. How long was he assistant agent? — Several years. 
 
 20578. How did he evince his knowledge of farming when he was assistant agent ? — I 
 suppose the farms inspected, perhaps, by members of the society, showed satisfactory 
 results, and also, he had received a high character from Mr. Otway. 
 
 20579. At the time he was assistant, what were the emoluments of the agent? — Five 
 per cent., the same as at present. 
 
 20580. The present agent is then in a better position than the former agent, because he 
 has £100 a-year in addition? — Certainly; but the late agent had £300 a-year, with a 
 residence, because he was both secretary and agent. 
 
 20581. Is it not the fact that he received that as registrar, and not as agent ? — He was 
 secretary. 
 
 205^2. Had ho not that salary as registrar or secretary ? — Mr. Otway received £300 
 a-year as registrar or secretary. 
 
 20583. But not as agent? — Not as agent; but as agent he had five per cent, on the 
 rents besides, out of which he paid Mr. Pidgeon as his assistant, and the society paid Mr. 
 Pidgeon as assistant registrar. 
 
 20584. ^Vhat was the salary of Mr. Pidgeon ? — They paid him £100 a-year, hut then they 
 raised it to £180 a-year, after several years' service. 
 
 20585. If I understand you aright, the ])resent agent has a retiring pension of £100 
 a-year. and agency fees of five per cent. ?— Yes. 
 
 20586. Upon his receipts ? — I presume it is upon his receipts. 
 
 20587. Then as agent he has £100 a-year more than the late agent ? — As agent, I say 
 yes. 
 
 20588. The late agent, as agent, had only five per cent, on his receipts, but the present 
 agent has five per cent, on his receipts, and £100 per annum besides ? —Yes; but 1 would 
 wish the Commissioners to bear in mind, that the pn)|)erty of the society is dispersed over 
 fifteen or sixteen counties in Ireland ; there is, consequently, great expense! in travelling; 
 and in many places there are small hohlings, which entail more trouble than where the 
 hohliiigs are large. 
 
 20589. Are not the estates in the same counties as they were fifteen years ago, when 
 the late agent was transacting the business of the society ; and as to the expense of 
 travelling, is it not much cheaper now in consequence of railways? — Yes. 
 
 20590. Thercfuro that would tell rather against your argument? — Yes; but I merely 
 mention there is a did'erenco between the agent having to collect rents from one or two 
 large proj)ertic.s, and having to collect rent from a nundjer of small ones. 
 
 2059 L Still we have the fact, that notwithstanding the railways, which render travelling 
 chea])er than when the late agent held ofllce, the present agent has £lO0 a-year more than 
 he had ?— That is the fact.
 
 EVIDENCE. 67 
 
 20592. Am 1 to understand, that tlie comniittoo appointed the present agent in consc- Dublin. 
 quence of his superior icnowledge of farnnng ? — Yes. 
 
 2059:?. For his great experience, and superior knowledge of farming over any other "^"""'''Sll/i^'^'' 
 
 person they were acquainted with?— Yes; and on account of liis higli character for ju;mi«tmy knnliak 
 
 integrity. i'mtextaiil Schools 
 
 20594. Ivcv. Dr. Graves. — What course is usually adopted witli regard to allowance for Z-.h"") \ vn 
 expenses in the hoarding scliools in the country ? — Every item of e\-penditure is charged *^^' "" ^^ ^ ' ' 
 by the catechist, in a bill which is sent up with tlie half-yearly accounts, and that t)ill 
 
 is called a bill of incidentals ; it contains small items, such as charges for postage 
 and railway parcels, and amoimts. generally speaking, to a few pounds. It is examined by 
 the catei'hist. and initialed as assented to hy him : and if it be not initialed as assented to 
 by him, wiien the half-yearly accounts come to me, I remit it to tlio schoolmaster or mis- 
 tress, to iiave it signed or initialed hy Iiini. 
 
 20595. In case tlie catechist refused to autliorize some expenditure which the master yet 
 considered necessary, what steps would then be taken ? — The society would not pass it 
 without having the report of the deputation, as to whether the e.Kpenditure was necessary 
 or not ; such a case has not arisen that I am aware of. 
 
 2059(5. The masters cannot supply themselves and the schools witli any requisites without 
 the express leave and ajiproval of the catechists? — No. they cannot; he mu.st write directly 
 to the society to get so and so, and if it Ije deemed by the society expedient that permission 
 should be granted, i: is granted ; but he could not do it without the permission of the 
 society ; for in fact, the catechist cannot give permission — he merely recommends. 
 
 20597. Supposing that the catechist approve of some expenditure which the master 
 thinks it is proper to incur, is tlie expense incurred before leave has been obtained from the 
 Committee of I'^ifteen ? — Certainly not ; it must be laid before the Committee of Fifteen 
 and 1)0 ordered by the committee before it is incurred. 
 
 20598. I perceive that the paying boarders in the boarding schools pay the sum of 
 £14 10s. annually, with the single exception of the Santry boarding scholars, whose terms 
 are higher, being £16 ; and it is stated that this charge of £14 \0s. for jiaying boarders is 
 intended to defray tlie expenses of dietary, and washing. Is it found, in point of fact, that it 
 does defray those expenses "? — I think, taking the average, it does. I would wish it to be 
 known as extensively as possible, tliat the Incorporated Society's great object with respect 
 to education is, to fill up the vacuum between the higher and lower classes of society ; to 
 afford gentlemen of small means a convenient opportunity of having their sons or their 
 daughters carefully and well educated : and at the same time, to preserve to the parents 
 or friends of the children, that feeling of independence, which it is oiir desire alwaj's to 
 cherish. The payments wliich arc made are merely sufficient to cover the expense of the 
 dietary and washing. The society affords education, stationery, medical attendance, and 
 all the other incidentals attendant upon an excellent education, without any cost wliatevei% 
 out of its funds ; and the only expense the parent or friend of the child is put to is such 
 expense as would he incurred at home, if the boy or girl received as good dietary and was 
 kept as clean as the boys and girls are in our institutions. 
 
 "20599. Are you satisfied that parents take such advantage as they might of tliis very 
 beneficial arrangement "? — So fully am I satisfied of it that I directed within the last ten 
 days books to be opened for the purpose of enrolling the names of candidates for admission 
 as boarders, in places where there was no accommodation for their reception. At Santry 
 we made arrangements to have 100 pupils, that is, including foundation and paid 
 boarders; but I found that the master had 103 boys in the school. I objected to tiiat, 
 because it entailed tlie necessity of two lioys sleeping in tlie one bed; however, ho 
 explained to me tliat the parents were well satisfied to lot the little children sleep in the 
 one bed ; but 1 told him not to exceed the number of 100, which the society limited him 
 to. I also told him to keep a book, in which he was to enter the names of the applicants, 
 and to receive them as opportunities allowed. I should also mention to you, that the 
 boarders are not received without certificates — one from tlie clersyman, as to their moral 
 conduct, so far as he had opportunity of knowing, and another from a medical practitioner, 
 stating that they are in a healthy condition. All the boarding establishments. I believe, 
 are now full, with one exception, tlie Farra in.stitution, in which there ai'e vacancies for two 
 or three boarders. 
 
 20600. Are the foundation boarders placed in your foundation schools, in consequence of 
 their having been successful at competitive examinations? — All. I date the welfare of the 
 society from tlio time when it relinquished all patronage, and when it allowed merit and 
 industry, and good conduct, to be the basis of admission to the schools. 
 
 20601. Are not some pupils received into the small boarding school at Celbridge 
 upon the Connolly foundation? — Tliere are; and that is the only exception among the 
 society's schools ; but that arose from this circumstance, that the ancestor of Mr. Connolly, 
 who built the house, and who devised the laud to the Incorporated Society, reserved to 
 himself and his successors the right of appointing thirty children to this school, on his own 
 patronage ; but in other respects the election to the Celbridge school is similar, except 
 that there arc not so many candidates required for eacli vacancy in a girls' as in a boys' 
 school. Tliere must be in a boys' school three times the number of vacancies to be 
 filled up ; in a girls' school it is sufficient to have twice the number of vacancies to be 
 filled up. 
 
 20602. These are regulations not only prescribing the competition, but indicating what 
 amount of competition really e.xists. What proportion do the uumber of candidates generally 
 
 Vol. 11. K 2
 
 68 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DlBLlN. 
 
 Iiti ''i-jiurnttti St 
 
 ill Dublin for 
 
 prumotini/ Entjlisii 
 
 Protestant Sr/iouh 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 KiJV. Riclianl Arilil 
 
 til 
 
 bear to the number of vacancies? — It varies very much ; for instance, at the Pocockc institu- 
 tion, the schools in the counties of VVaterford and Kilkenny sent in thirty-six candidates for four 
 places. That is the largest number of candidates that came iorward for so small a number of 
 places. In Dundalk there were at one time, I thiidc, upwards of sixty candidates for nine places, 
 while at tlie Ranelagh school, at Atldone, tliere was barely a sufficient number to entitle 
 five candidates to admission; but that was owing to the ])Ovcrty wbicli prevailed in that 
 part of Connaught,and to the clergymen not being able to keep good schools that would send 
 forward boys who would be likely to succeed as candidates for free scliolarsliips. 1 do not 
 know whether the Commissioners are acquainted with the mode in whicli the examination 
 is conducted ; if not, I would be hai)py to state it. 
 
 20G03. Would you be so good as to do so? — Notice is sent to all the parties privileged 
 to forward candidates for admission. These candidates must be of a certain ago. not under 
 eleven, or over sixteen; they must liave a medical certificate, and the certificate of a 
 clergyman, as to their morals, and their attendance at the scliool they come from. Tliey arc 
 required to bring those certificates with them, or to forward them a few days before to the 
 schoolmaster (a late regulation). AVlien they have assembled in the school-room — perliaps 
 thirty-six candidates, as in tlie case of the Pocock, or sixty, as in the case of the Dundalk Insti- 
 tution — they go to a box, or hat, and draw out a card with a number on it. which card has a 
 string attached to it tliat may be thrown over the liead. They place these cards on them, and 
 are known by the numbers from five to fifty, as the case niay be. Tlie candidate's name is 
 not known, nor is it known wliere he comes from, or any thing about him. Wiien all the 
 candidates have selected their numbers they are placed in rotation, and the examiner has a 
 sheet of paper with tlie number of each candidate written on it, and with the subjects for 
 examination. The clergy, the gentry, the school -master and mistress, are all invited to be 
 present — -in fact, the examination is made as public as possible. Those present liave all 
 opportunities of having sheets of paper witli tlie numbers corresponding with the numbers 
 placed for the examiner. The examiner proceeds with his examination in the prescribed 
 subjects, and marks all tlie ''yeses" or all the '-misses;'' and so may every person 
 in the room, if they please to check him. As soon as the examiner has reported that 
 numbers nine, twelve, sixteen, or foiu-, are the best answerers, every person in the room 
 may have a similar check, and may see that he is not wrong in forming such a conclusion. 
 Then it is ascertained, when inquiry is made for tlie bo\s' certificates, what their names 
 are, wliere they came from, and whether they come within the prescribed rules. Every 
 thing is then ascertained ; and tlie boys are admitted on the foundation of the school for 
 four years, free of all expense to parents or friends, save the expense of coming to the 
 school on tlie appointed day. At the termination of these four years there is a re-examination 
 (for it is a rotation system which is adopted) of the outgoing boys; and they are sent, if 
 their moral character is unexceptionable, and if it be found tliey have made progress during 
 the four years of their study, to the Santry Institution for three years. After that tliey are 
 fit to go into life ; and instead of sending out tiic number I do eligible for appointments, I 
 could send out twice or three times the number. I may remark, as to tiic encouragement 
 which our institution gives to schools througliout the country, that I think it is to non- 
 classical schools \vhat tlie university is to our classical schools. 
 
 20604. Wliat in general are tlie employments in life of those young persons who have 
 obtained testimonials on the completion of their course in the Santry training school "? — 
 Some of tliem go out as schoolmasters, some as engineers, and to various situations; in fact, 
 they are eligible for whatever situation may be tilled by young persons of good character, 
 and having obtained a consideralde English education. The higher branches of mathematics, 
 drawing, navigation, and surveying, are taught in the school for several hours. An oppor- 
 tunity for learning cla.»;sics is also afforded, in case tlicro are pupils wiio evince a desire to 
 learn tliem : but the society does not identify itself with the study of classics, it merely 
 affords tlie opportunity, lest, perliaps. some ])U])il should 1)C left without an ojiportunity of 
 developing his taleiiis in that way. 1 have frequent accounts of young men, wlio left the 
 society on situations of £80, some £60, and some £lOO : and I am happy to say that an 
 unfavourable account would be almost an exception. These results afford the society the 
 utmost gratification. 
 
 2060.7. What account, on tlie other hand, can you give of the occupations in life of those 
 foundation boarders in the schools, who do not succeed in getting admission into Santry ? — 
 I think they generally return to their friends; but it is a very rare occurrence that they do 
 not get admission : and it is now a rule with the society, that no boy liaving been four 
 years on the institution sliould bo deprived of tlie advantage of going to Santry, if his 
 attainments are of a liigli order, and if his cliaracter be unexceptionable. Some of our 
 masters, indeed all that liave been latterly appointed under the Incorporated Society were 
 persons educated by the society. 
 
 20G06. Will the Santry scliool afl'ord accommiid;iti(iii to all the foundation scliolars who 
 may come to it from yonr schools in the different parts of the country? — 1 think it would, 
 if there was an arrangement made with respect to the pay boarders; but there is this to be 
 said also — when Santry was placed on its jircsent footing, the arrangement was, to have 
 fifteen boys from the other institutions resident at Santry, for the ])iirpose of receiving a 
 superior education. I never could keep fifteen boys there. I often had no more tlian 
 seven or eight; liecaiise persons applied fm- them to go out to respeclalile situations, or go 
 as teachers or sclioidmasters; and these applications were so fix'(|ueiit, and the situations 
 which presented themselves so very desirable, that those young men went out, forfeiting, 
 perliap.s, one or two years that they would have yet to remain in the institution if they so
 
 EVIDENCE. 69 
 
 (losircd it ; so I do not apprehend, even supposing tlic society allowed thirty ])laccs. that Dublin. 
 there wouhl Iio hoys for that miniber; because I think thi' senior hovs, and tlioso of the , ; ^. . . 
 
 1 • T I',' • " Til • I X 1* -1 1 'i. J.* I 1 ' 1 • i-ii Jnt'criiorafed ixicteti/ 
 
 highest ([uahncations, would he appouited to ehgihle situations. 1 have hecn m (Jiestcr hi ViMin for 
 for many years, and liave made education the subject of very anxious consideration ; and promot'my EiujUsh 
 having directed my attention to the iirst-class educational establishments in diifereut coun- ■''"^'^*'/^"/„frf "'' 
 trios, I do not know of any place where an English education is afforded at all suiicrior to ,, , j,- ,j ^^^ Ardill 
 Santry. 
 
 '2()(i07. Is tliere any female scliool analogous to the Santry institution in connexion with 
 the Incorp^iratcd Society ^ — Yes. You are aware that with tlu; exception of tliosc on the 
 Connolly foundation, the elections to the female schools are similar to those in tlie male. 
 
 20608. Tlic question I ask is, is tlicrc a superior scliool for girls, into which they are 
 promoted from those boarding schools, as boys from the boarding schools are promoted 
 into Santry ? — No. there is not; but I may meet the question in this way: there arc train- 
 ing schools at Celbridge, and IJoscommon which give a sujierior education to young 
 females who show a taste for learning, and who may becouie proper teachers. 
 
 •20(i0!). You mentioned just now that one of the regulations with regard to the 
 admission of boarders into the female schools was to this effect — that the number of can- 
 didates must he at least double the number of vacancies ; whilst, in the case of the boys' 
 schools, the number of candidates must be three times the number of vacancies. Are the 
 Commissioners to inl'or, from that regulation, that there is less competition for admission 
 into the female than into the male schools ? — Certainly. 
 
 '20G10. To what do you ascribe thatiact? — The advantages which are presented to a 
 hoy on his admission into the society's institutions, and the prospect of being transmitted 
 to Santry, where the superior education he gets enables him to go into life, at a salary 
 of i,'50, £60, or £S0 a-year, are such as cannot he held out to a girl. The utmost we 
 projjose for a girl, in the education we afford, is to fit her for the situation of nursery 
 governess, or the like, perhaps at a salary of £lO or £15 a-year. Our institutions do not 
 present to girls advantages commcusurato with those presented to boys. 
 
 20011. Can you form an estimate of the effect produced upon ]irimary schools by this 
 system of competitive examinations : I mean the schools from which the pupils come forvi'ard 
 as candidates for admission into your boarding schools ? — I look upon the effects as very 
 beneficial. Where scholarships are held out to pupils educated in certain schools, it causes 
 competition amongst the masters of the district, as well as amongst tlie pupils. 
 
 20G12. Is the number of schools from which jjupils are admissible as competitors very 
 considerable ? — Very considerable in some places ; in other places they do not avail them- 
 selves of the privilege to the same extent. In the counties of lioscommon and Kilkenny 
 the number of competitors is very considerable. 
 
 20G13. Can you explain the disinclination which exists in some districts on the part of 
 masters or pupils to avail tliemselves of tlicse privileges? — In many cases it is to be attri- 
 buted to the destitution which prevailed among the people in some parts of Ireland, and in 
 consequence of which the clergymen were not able to keep up the schools, or pay sufficient 
 salaries to the masters to enable them to send forward successful pupils. In the counties 
 of Louth and Down, from which the Dundalk institution receives candidates, the numbers 
 are very great, and the comjietition is very considerable. 
 
 20G14. One of the conditions to bo complied with by candidates for admission into one 
 of your boarding schools is, that they should have been previously educated at a Scriptu- 
 ral school: how is that term defined by the committee of the Incorporated Society"? — 
 They must bo twelve months at a school at which the Scriptures are ilaily read by all the 
 cliildren who attend. 
 
 20815. Then, if out of a scliool of 100 hoys ninety-nine read the Scriptures, and one did 
 not, every Protestant cliild in that school would be disqualified for these foundation scholar- 
 ships ? — The certificates are sent in by the various clergymen throughout the districts, 
 privileged to send in candidates, and when the deputation receives the certificates, they 
 make no further iii([Hiry as to what the school is from which the candidates come, they 
 simply go by the certificate presented to them. 
 
 20Gi6. As a member of the committee, you must know what the intention of the society 
 is in this matter? — The object of the society is to educate as members of the church 
 establishment all boys who come within its influence. 
 
 20G17. But might not that object bo better carried into effect, if the disability were 
 removed from I'rotestaut children who received the required Scriptural education in a school, 
 in which it happened, however, that some of the other children were not taught in the same 
 way ? — The original certificate, and what I must say was very highly approved of, was, that 
 they should be received, if they had been twelve months in attendance at a school iu 
 which the Scriptures were daily read. 
 
 20618. When was that form of certificate altered, Mr. Ardill ?^About three years ago. 
 
 20G19. Was the alteration the result of discussion in the committee? — Yes. 
 
 20G20. Can you state for what purpose the rule was altered, so as to make it necessary 
 that the Scriptures should be read in the schools by all the pupils? — I think it was for the 
 purpose of making the schools decidedly more Scriptural. 
 
 20G21. Then the object of the arrangement was to bring the influence of the Incorporated 
 Society to bear upon the constitution and management of these schools? — It was for the 
 purpose of making Scriptural education as extensive as possible ; that, I am sure, was the 
 motive the gentlemen had who proposed the alteration, and the motive which swayed the 
 members who acceded to the proposition.
 
 70 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 20622. The object, then, was to do something more than to provide for the Scriptural 
 
 J ^ ~~l~. <j . education of the pupils who were admissible into your own schools ? — It was more tlian that. 
 
 in£)iiblin%r 206'23. Was not that object provided for h_, the rule as it stood before? — Yes. 
 
 promoting Enylish 20624. Has any complaint ever been made to the committee, as to the working of the 
 '^"hfln'l^id "" * altered rule ? — On one occasion, a member expressed his disapproval of that clause. Upon 
 Eer Richard Ardill 'iQOther occasion, tiic late Bishop of Meath, Dr. Townsend, called on mo, and expressed hia 
 disapprobation of it ; but he never followed it out by any letter or subsequent communi- 
 cation on the subject. 
 
 20625. I believe there are eight boarding institutions, and twelve day schools under 
 the management of the Incorjioratcd Society ?— At present, one of the female schools 
 is in abeyance. 'J he mistress has been married lately, and no school has been held since. 
 So there are now eiglit boarding institutions, and eleven day schools. 
 
 20626. I desire to ask you whether you are of opinion that the system of maintaining 
 boarding schools for persons of the middle or lower classes, is an advantageous oue ? — I 
 think it is, especially in the case of the boys' schooL 
 
 20627. AVouldyou be so good as to state the grounds upon which you rest that opinion? — 
 I think that boys being boarded together, and having an opportunity of receiving a superior 
 education in a boarding school above that which they ordinarily receive in a day school, 
 and being noticed by visitors, and persons of position, and having a qualified master to 
 regulate their conduct, and teach them habits of cleanliness and order, as a part of 
 their education, are matters of great importance. I think order and regularitj' constitute 
 a material portion of a boy's education and address. I think they are better educated in 
 every way, when they are associated with the master and his family, then if they were 
 allowed to return to their parents, who are generally of an humble sphere in life : I allude 
 to foundationers. 
 
 211628. Tlien, if the funds at the disposal of the society were increased, they would be 
 more disposed to expend tlieni on increasing their boarding establishments than on 
 erecting day schools? — At present the boarding schools, as I remarked before, may be 
 looked upon as being to the non-classical schools what the university is to classical schools. 
 They hold out inducements to the boys who attend the day schools throughout the 
 country. We have lately added to the schools in the county of Cork and elsewhere, and 
 ' extended to them this privilege of scholarship ; and we know from the competition that has 
 
 arisen in these schools that they are going on well. If there were an increase in our funds, 
 I greatly question if I would recommend, as a member of t!ie society, that this fund should 
 be laid out in adding to our boarding institutions. Perhaps it would be advisable to 
 establish a few additional boarding schools ; but, generally speaking, the money would be 
 more advantageously employed on day schools, having places in the boarding schools as 
 the rewards of merit, and as inducements to diligence and good conduct. 
 
 2062!). The Commissioners do not consider it necessary to continue your examination 
 any further at present, i\Ir. Ardill. — Perhaps the Commis.sioners would allow me to make a 
 few observations. 1 was present yesterday * when a gentleman brought forward very grave 
 accusations against the Incorporated Societj\ 
 
 2U630. Mr. Stephens. — What was that gentleman's name? — i\Ir. Butler Stoney. A 
 report of these grave accusations which have been brought against the society has 
 appeared, I understand, in the morning papers. One of the Commissioners remarked that 
 these accusations, which Mr. Butler Stoney brought against the society, were of a very 
 grave character, and I quite concur with him. because he accused the society, in the first 
 instance, of wantonness in the expenditure of the money, and again of neglect of its duty 
 as an educational society and as landlords. He stated the case of a school in his own 
 neighbourhood, on the estate of the society, to which the society rendered, ho said, no 
 assistance, except by the donation of a few old books, about seven years ago. Now I 
 distinctly remember every thing connected with that school. In the spring of 1843 I met 
 Mr. Stoney, in company, and he was introduced to me as holding ])ropcrty under the 
 society. He told me that ho had recently built a schoolhousc in tlie vicinity of his resi- 
 dence, county Tipperary, and that he wished it to be assisted by the Incorporated Society. 
 I told him I should bo very happy to do all in my power to comply with his wishes, and 
 to rtnidcr the school as elllciont as possible. Accordingly, I recommended it to the Incor- 
 porated Society, and a deputation went down in the summers of 1843, 1844, 1845, and 
 1846. They reported very favourably of the school. I have here the report of the 
 examination they conducted, the condition in which they ibund the school, and also of 
 the attention of Mr. IJ. Stoney and Mrs. Stoney, to whom, it is stated, in a great 
 measure, the efficient state of the school was to bo attributed. Mr. Stoney then proceeded, 
 to state that the society had conferred no beiu^fit on this school except a few old books. I 
 liavc^ hei'O a list of two extensive gratuities of maps sent down from the depository in 
 l)ul)lin for the benelit of the school, and .also jireniiuins of books i'or those wlio answered well. 
 
 20631. State the dates, if you please?— 1843 and- 1844. 
 
 20632. AVliat was tlie value of tiie books ? — The amount which the books cost is not 
 stated. 
 
 20033. Give a description of the ])ooks? — The deputation visited in the summer, 1843, 
 and the following is an extract from the minutes of Committee of Piftcen, of 1st of Pebruaty, 
 184 t: "Tbf! Hi'cretary ri'])()rted, tliat in pursuance of tlie n^solution of the deputation 
 wliicii visited this scliool in .June last, \w forwarded, fur tlie us(^ of the school, the fcdlowing 
 books : six Gough s arithmetics, twenty-four Pirst Book of Lessons, twenty-four Dublin 
 
 • Sec tivklcucc, Vol. II., page 31.
 
 EVIDENCE. 71 
 
 Spelling Books, No. 3, twenty-four Second f5ook of Lessons, twche Tln'nl I5ook of Lessons, Dublin. 
 
 six 10iit,disli ijraniinars, six I'^lcnicnts of Ilook-la'Ojiiiifj;, twclvu Stiipford's (liitccliisiiiR, twelve j ^ ~~~ ^ . 
 Mann's Catechisms, six .Scripture Selections, twcdve Ostervvuld's Abridgment of Holy in Dublin' for 
 Scriptures, twenty-four Jlistory of the Old Testament." promoting E'nylisli 
 
 ■20631. That is for 1844 ?— Yes. Protcst.^ru SnhooU 
 
 20635. Were tliose all the books which were supplied in that year .' — Iherc were more, j, ,,• .i . .j a ]-,| 
 The 3rd of .Inly, 1844, it was ordered " That two dozen of ISibles, one set of maps, two dozen 
 of second class S])elling books, and some n'ading books, also a selection of books for pre- 
 miums to the value of one ])(iund. The ooniinittee arc^ induced to make tliis grant on account 
 of the favourable report of the deputation wiiich lately visited tiie school." 
 
 20().'56. If I understand you aright, the statement made is, that the society only supplied 
 a few old books to this school '? — Yes. 
 
 20G37. Will you hand in the list of books supplied to the scliool from 1844 down to the 
 present moment ? 
 
 20638. [Secretarif. — This is the report of the deputation of 1845: — " Tlie deputation 
 recommend that a selection of maps, and a few copies of geogrii])hy and spelling books, be 
 sent to the school ; they also recommend four premium books to b.' sent down for distri- 
 bution among the four best answerers, whose names the deputation returned to master." 
 Next follows the report of the deputation whicii visited in .June. 1S4C: — • 
 
 " Tlie deputation i-ccommend four children for premiums, their naiiK-s having been taken 
 down by the secretary as the best answerers. 
 
 '■ The only disappointment wo met was in not finding Jlrs. Stoney or any of her family 
 at the school. The countenance of tlie proprietor and patron of the school, and the resjject 
 which their attendance would have shown the society, and which the deputation found in 
 every other instance, would have been useful."] 
 
 20G39. Are you under the impression that these were all the books supplied ? — That is 
 all. Jlr. Stoney withdrew the scliool from the control of the society at tliat time ; and he 
 yesterday complained that tlie society had done nothing for the promotion of education in 
 that part of the country, and tliat tht-re vrere no schools belonging to the Incorporated 
 Society in the neighbourhood, whereas there are six schools belonging to the society. 
 
 20640. [Secretarij. — The scliool ceased to be under the control of the Incorporated 
 Society in 1846; and between the time the connexion commenced and ceased the books 
 referred to in the minutes read by witness would appear to be all the books that were given.] 
 
 20()41 . Mr. Stoney admitted yesterday that the late respected Archdeacon of Dubhn wrote 
 to him to the eft'ect, that if he chose to give the house and the acre of ground attached to it to 
 the Incorporated Society, that they would undertake the sole expense and management of 
 that school ; but he did not choose to do that, and therefore there was no further connexion 
 between his school and the society ; nor did 1 hear any thing more of it until I heard these 
 grave charges yesterday — tliat we neglected our duty as an educational body. 
 
 20642. Dr. Andrews. — Where do the six schools you mentioned as being in the neigh- 
 bourhood of Mr. Stoney's property lie ? — I call them in the neighbourhood, but they are 
 in the county. There is one at Clonmel, two at Cashcl, two at Newport, and one at IJird's- 
 hill. Another of the charges brought against the society was, that it neglected its tenants 
 in that district, the fact being that the society has no tenants there except Mr. Stonej-. 
 
 20643. Mr. Stephens. — Had you any discussion with Mr. Stoney about a lease '? — I think 
 there was, some years ago. He applied for a renewal of his lease, and obtained it. He 
 merely applied for that which he was strictly entitled to get, and he got it. I always 
 thought he was pleased with the society until now. He complained that the society 
 neglected its tenants, but it has no tenants there except himself, for he stands between the 
 society and the cultivators of the society's lands. He is what is called a middleman, paying 
 £156 a-year, and deriving many hundreds a-year out of a great portion — six townlands. 
 
 20644. Had you any correspondence with Mr. Stoney ? — None. A gentleman, on one 
 occasion, sent up his card, and said he called on the part of Mr. Stoney, and that his 
 opinion was, something ought to be done for the furtherance of education in his neighbour- 
 hood. I said, if you will tell Mr. Stoney, or if you would do so yourself, to imt on paper 
 any statement you choose to make on the subject, I shall lay it before the society, who, I 
 am sure, will be glad to forward education wherever they can do so. I make the observa- 
 tions I have addressed to the Commissioners, not in an unfriendly spirit towards Mr. 
 Stoney, for I entertain none ; but for the purpose of vindicating the society from the grave 
 charges of having been wanton in their expenditure, neglectful of their duty as landlords, 
 and neglectful of their duty as an educational body. 
 
 20645. Did Mr. Stoney ever make these complaints to the society, directly or indirectly? 
 — I am not aware that he did. 
 
 20646. Did you ever hear of them until yesterday? — I had not the remotest idea he was 
 coming here until he was in the room. 
 
 20647. Dr. Andrews. — Was there any written communication from Mr. Stoney, at the 
 time he withdrew the schools from the control of the society ? — 1 am not aware that any 
 letter was received from him : but I think it was the impression of the society that Mr. 
 Stoney would not allow the management of the school to remain with the Incorporated 
 Society, and, therefore, the connexion was severed. 
 
 20G4S. Did he withdraw the school of his own motion? — Yes; and when the deputation 
 went there, although he and his wife, I believe, were at home, they were not met; and, there- 
 fore, we were led to suppose that our visits were not desired. With respect to the allegation 
 that the society granted old books, I can furnish the Commissioners with the receipts from
 
 72 
 
 , ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DlTBLIS. 
 
 Incorpfiratrii Sot' '<:■/'/ 
 
 in Dublin fur 
 
 promotinij Eniilt^h 
 
 Protestant Sihooh 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 Est. Richard Anlill. 
 
 Ecv.JolmW.Stubbs 
 
 tlie book depository which supplied tlic books. We never vet supplied old books, except 
 wlien a private individual p;ave a donation. 
 
 20f)49. AA oiiid you be good enough to tell us what was the nature of tlie communication 
 that Mr. Stoncy made when he withdrew the school. Did it leave you under the impression 
 that ho desired you should not have the suporinteudencc of the schoul any lon'^-er? — I am 
 not aware of any coraraunication. 
 
 206 jO. If there be any letter, or record, or minute, send it to the Commissioners? — 
 Tiicre is no record wdiatever, excejit what you have just heard read ; that tlio deputation 
 visited the school, and tliat Mr. and Mrs. Stoney did not meet them at a time tlieir 
 co-operation was so desirable. I do not think we had any communication with Mr. Stoney, 
 and whatever communications he may have had witli persons in Dublin I know not ; but he 
 admitted yesterday that the Archdeacon wrote to him to say that if he would give the 
 schoolhouse and the aero of laiid to the society, they would m-inage the school. 
 
 20651. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Do you wi.sh to make any further statement? — 1 do not. 1 
 merely wished to vindicate the society from the charges that have been made. 
 
 Rev. John IV. Stuhhs sworn and examined. 
 
 20652. Rev. Dr. Graves. — What connexion have you with the Incorporated Society? — I 
 am a member of the society, a member of the Committee of Fiiteen, and a member of the 
 committee of account. 
 
 20()5:I. How long have you been a member of these committees?— I have been a member 
 of the Committee of Fifteen. I should say, about four years; and I was a member of the 
 committee of ai^count before I was a member of the Committee of Fifteen. 
 
 2065i. Mr. Stephens. — How long have you been a member of the committee of account ? 
 —I should say about five or si.K years. 
 
 206.55. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Since you have been a member of that committee have the 
 accounts been regularly audited? — They have been audited regularly, and every item 
 minutely examined. 
 
 20656. Would you be so good as to state the gcr.cral nature of the audit ? — The nature 
 of the audit is this. There arc two sots of accounts: Mr. A rdill's account, as treasurer and 
 secretary, and ^Jr. Pidgeon's account, as agent. They are audited separately, and there 
 must be three members of the committee of account to conduct the examination. One of 
 them is generally deputed to tot up the account in the book. After that is done, and this 
 tot is initialed and proved to bo correct, the whole three meet, and go through each item 
 separately, compare them with the vouchers, and aUo with the committee-book and with the 
 expenditure, as ordercii. We sec that the account-book tallies with the voiiehcrs, and also 
 with the minute of the committee ordering the expenditure ; and when we have compared 
 these books, we sign the account. Then, with regard to Mr. I'idgeon's account, the rent- 
 roll is submitted to us; a statement of tlie receipts received; the amount due, and the poor- 
 rates, and other charges, which have been paid ; and also the sums which, as agent, ho has 
 allowed at dilVerent ]ieriods to tenants, but, of cour.io, with the sanction of the society. 
 Wo examine the vouchers, compare the accounts, and sec that all is right. 
 
 20(i57. I believe you are also a member of the deputation annually employed to 
 examine the schools ? — I am not ; but there is another gentleman of the same name — a 
 relative of mine — -who has been acting as a member of the deputation for several years, who 
 inspects tlie schools in the country ; but I, as a ineuiber of the Committee of Fifteen, have, 
 occasionally, examined several schools ; and every half-yearly examination I am present at 
 Santry, wlicre I conduct the mathematical par-t of the examination. 
 
 20658. ^^'llat opinion do you offer as to the answering of the boys at Santry ? — I have 
 examined all the children ; but, generally speaking, I have confined my attention to the 
 foundation boys; and their answering in mathematics was of a very high order. The 
 method of examination was this : I got the list of the subjects to be examined in two days 
 before the general deputation visited the school. I was accomp.inied by Mr. Galbraith, a 
 Fellow of Trinity College, who docs this duty at the rcijuest of the society, not being a 
 member. \\q had previously pro])ared two papers of questions ; one in plain and sjiherical 
 trigonometry, in algebra, in Euclid, and astronomy ; another in mensuration and arith- 
 metic. We proceeded to the scl.ool, and having got all tiie foundation b >ys assembled 
 in the examination-hall, we gave each boy a paper of questions. We divided the paper 
 examination into two parts ; one was held in the forenoon and the other in the afternoon. 
 Each boy got a paper of questions, and was placed by himself, the master iiot being allowed 
 to enter the room. We remained while the boys were writing out the answers, and as soon as 
 the writing was finished they were allowed three hours each belbrc they handed the questions 
 to us. Wo examined the answers; and I must say that their answering was, generally, ex- 
 ceedingly good. The answers were written out neatly, were e.xecuted very carefully, and they 
 evinced a good, sound knowledge of the subjects which they had learned. Their answering 
 was exceedingly good in algebra, as far as quadratic equations ; tliey know some, but not much 
 of the remaining parts. The inndt part of Euclid they knew exceedingly well ; but they 
 were ignorant ol the nature of deducil)le pro])ositions. Their knowledge of arithmetic was 
 first-rate, and indeed I may say the same of all the boys; some of the boarders — not 
 foundationers — answered very fairly in the early parts of Euclid. I was present on a 
 second day's examination, when tlie general dejMitation visited the school, and publicly, 
 viva voce, examined the boys. They were examined slightly the second day, vivd voce, in 
 mathematics, and to a considerable extent in arithmetic ; but the general examination was 
 confined to English grammar, English history, geography, and reading. There _was
 
 EVIDENCE. 73 
 
 also an exhibition of maps and drawings, which were done by the boys; and the general Dublih. 
 
 answering of the boys was also, on that occasion, exceedingly good. /,irn,i,(„aie,/ Sncieiv 
 
 20659. What is your opinion as to the moans employed by the society for the education ,„ />„/,/,„ /„r 
 of boys? — I have examined some of tlio institutions in connexion with the society ; because rromotini/ EmjlUh 
 one of the rules of the society is, that any member of the Committee of Fifteen may go ''''tr/n'L'm/.'""' 
 down, at any lime he chooses, to visit any of the other institutions, at the expense ol the j;,,^ .j„ii„w.Siubb9. 
 society, and make a re])oi't. Sometimes I have taken advantage of that rule ; and at other 
 
 times, when 1 happened to be in tlie ncighliourhood, I called into the school, and held an 
 examination. I think, that so far as the education of the minor institutions is concerned, that 
 every thing which is nece.-<sary is supplied by the society. With regard to their education at 
 Sant'ry, the boys arc taught the elementary parts of mathematics exceedingly well. The 
 master seems to be a judicious, good teacher, wlio thoroughly understands trigonometry, 
 Euclid, algebra, navigation, and mensuration, and can teach them admirably ; but he is not, 
 I think, acquainted with any otlier branches; and lie is not competent to undertake the 
 instruction of boys in the higher branches. 
 
 20660. Do you think it is desirable that the higher branches of science should be taught 
 in schools of that nature ? — 1 think it desirable that some of the superior boys at Santry 
 should have an opportunity of learning experimental science, botany, geology, physiology, 
 and matters of that kind, which are often communicated in the higher classes of ti'aining 
 schools in England. 
 
 20661. Then you would suggest tlie introduction of the teaching of those departments into 
 the institution at Santry ? — I would if I !;ad the means of doing it ; ami indeed 1 have made 
 a proposition to the committee, which I think will be adopted, that the senior class in Santry 
 should be allowed to come to Dublin two or three days in the week, and attend lectures in 
 the experimental sciences, and the other high branches of natural philosophy, which they 
 have not now an opportunity of learning in Santry ; but lectures on which they could easily 
 attend in Dublin. I think it would be a great advantage if an .arrangement was made by which 
 the higher boys in Santry could have an opportunity of attending the lectures which are 
 given in the Museum of Industry, Stephen's-green. The lectures there are adapted to boys 
 of tlie higher order of talent, and it would be a great advantage if they could attend them ; 
 because I do not think it is possible for the society to get a master to reside at Santry who 
 would be competent to convey a very large amount of inform.ation on these subjects. 
 
 20662. Do you not think a great expenditure of the pupils' time would be incurred, if they 
 were obliged to attend lectures in Dublin '? — There are great difficulties in the way, but if it 
 could be managed, it would be advisable to do so. I may mention, that hitherto there have been 
 very few boys, in what is called the senior class, in Santry. The Santry school is divided 
 into three classes. There is a distinct curriculum laid out for each class, and before a boy 
 can be promoted from the third class to the second, and from the second to the first, he must 
 have stood a satisfactory examination on the subjects laid down for the boys in the class, 
 during the year, which he is just after passing. No boy can get his final diploma from Santry 
 unless he has gone through the three classes ; so, in fact, if a boy has neglected any part of 
 his course in Santry, he is thrown back, and never can come up at the final examination ; but 
 in consequence of many of the senior boys, as Mr. Ardill has stated, getting inducements to 
 leave the school before their education is completed, generally speaking, we would have few 
 boys in the senior class to avail themselves of the higher class of instruction. 
 
 20663. What is your opinion, Mr. Stubbs, as to the advantages attending the annual visit- 
 ation conducted by a deputation formed of the members of the committee? — I think the 
 advantages are very great. I tliink it is of great importance that the members of the 
 committee, who assist in regulating the affairs of the society, should be personally, as far as 
 possible, conversant with the character of each schoolmaster; and it is a great advantage to 
 the boys themselves, that the members of the committee should go down and examine them, 
 and see that the school is properly conducted, and that the boys are making proper progress. 
 I think the system has worked exceedingly well, so far as the schools of the society are 
 concerned. 
 
 20664. In point of fact, you do not consider that the schools would be as well managed 
 if the Governors themselves did not enter into an inspection or examination of them ? — I 
 think they could not keep up a proper amount of efficiency, unless there was an annual 
 deputation of inspection from the Governors of the schools. 
 
 20665. Do you tliink that the inspection under the Incorporated Society is sufficient? — I 
 think it happens to bo sufficient just at the present moment, because there are some members 
 of the Committee of Fitteen highly competent to conduct an examination, and men who take 
 a greater interest in the society than men of rank and position in life generally evince, and 
 are better able than others to devote five or six weeks to going about and examining the schools, 
 and personally inspecting them. I think it is a mere accident that the society has at present 
 some members who have the time and the talents, the ability and experience, to perform this 
 duty ; and I thin!< it would bo advisable if there was a paid inspector. I would question 
 whether he should be paid an annual salary or not, but I would pay him according to the 
 work done. I would appoint a person who was competent to examine schools, and who could 
 occasionally go and see the schools of the society when he would not be expected, and report 
 to the society. I believe tiie time will come when we will not be able to get a sufficient 
 number of members of the Committee of Fifteen, to undertake so arduous and laborious a duty, 
 as to visit all the schools, seriatim, and hold very laborious examinations every year. 
 
 20666. Then the most perfect system of inspection, in your opinion, would be one in which 
 there was a paid inspector, or paid inspectors, acting under the directions of the governing 
 
 Vol. II. L
 
 li 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DCBUII. 
 
 Jneorporaled Society 
 
 ill Dublin for 
 
 promoiiny Eni/li^b 
 
 Protestant ScliouU 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 BeT.JohnW.Stubbs. 
 
 body, — the members of the governing bodj-, from time to time, visiting and inspecting the 
 schools? — I think so. I think an inspection cannot be good, unless the governing body has 
 the means of seeing what is going on ; and of course the visits of the governing body would 
 be expected by the mastor. 
 
 20667. Why is that ?— Because the exauiinatious are held at certain periods of the year ; 
 the boys at this examination, who are to be elected for the foundation places, come from 
 diiFerent parts of the country, and of course have notice of it. It would be impossible, under 
 the present system, to hold an examination without giving ample notice to the master ; but 
 at the same time, I think it would be advisable if the schools were inspected at periods when 
 the inspection could not bo expected by the master, and I believe in the normal condition of 
 the committee, it would be better to have some gentleman, whom the society could always call 
 on, to attend them in their inspection, and to conduct certain parts of the examination, which, 
 perhaps, some members of the deputation would not feel themselves competent to undertake. 
 
 20668. Do you thiidi that an inspection; such as you have been describing, is alike neces- 
 sary in the primary schools, and also in the superior schools, such as Santry ? — I do ; and I 
 believe, with regard to Santry, several of the members of the committee are anxious to 
 establish this arrangement ; and I hope it will be established that one member of the com- 
 mittee should feel himself bound to take Santry some time or other during one month in 
 the year, so that the Santry institution might be inspected every month by one member of 
 the committee, and then by the deputation once a-year. I think that arrangement would 
 be very desirable with regard to Santry. 
 
 20669. Is there any thing like a visitation of Santry when the annual examination is held 
 there ? — Oh, yes ; the members of the deputation, and any member of the society who 
 happens to be present, inspect the school, and if there be any complaints made they hear 
 them ; but there never have been any complaints when I was present at an examination in 
 Santry. 
 
 20670. Do you also examine into the internal economy of the establishment ? — We do. 
 
 20671. You mentioned, a while ago, that the e .'caminations at Santry were, in part, carried 
 on by printed papers? — Partly by papers. 
 
 20672. Are you aware whether the Commissioners are in possession of cojiies of those 
 papers ? — I am not aware ; but if they wish for them I can forward them. 
 
 20673. Do so, if you please ; and also the printed papers used at the examination of the 
 other schools ? — I will do so. But I may remark that I have never conducted a yearly 
 examination of the other schools personal y ; but I know the way in which it is conducted 
 is this: one member of tlie deputation undertakes to examine the boys in arithmetic and 
 mathematics. He sends, some days previous to the public exarairiation, to the catechist 
 a number of copies of a printed paper of questions in algebra, in Euclid, and in arithmetic, 
 The catechist, then, who, as it were, is the public officer cf the society, goes to the school 
 on a certain day previous to the examination. He gets the boys into a room by them- 
 selves. The master is not allowed to have any communication with the boys. The boys are 
 then furnished witli the papers ; the catechist remains during the time allowed for answer- 
 ing them. When they have written out their answers they hand tlumi, so written out, to 
 the catechist, and he sends them to the member who is to conduct the examination iu 
 mathematics. 
 
 20674. Are these printed papers used only in case of the mathematical examination ? — 
 Only in case of the mathematical examination, which includes arithmetic. 
 
 20675. The examination, then, includes other branches? — The general examination 
 includes several other branches ; but they are conducted viva voce, because there is, generally, 
 a large number of strangers who come to be present at the e.xaraination ; and it is considered 
 advisable that the boys should be examined in grammar, history, Scripture, and other 
 branches of their education, viva voce. 
 
 20676. Is the publicity of the examination a guarantee of the fiiirncss with which it is 
 conducted ? — Yes. 
 
 20 i77. As you have the moans of knowing, are you of opinion tli.tt the institutions are 
 adcijuately supplied with books and other school appliances? — So far as I know, there 
 never was a demand made by any school for books that has not been complied with on the 
 part of the committee. 
 
 20678. This annual examination secures a certain amount of diligence and proficiency, but are 
 other means adopted by which tlie committee can ascertain whether the boys make due and 
 regular progress during the early jiortion of the year before the prospect of an examination can 
 be supposed to stimulate any extra diligence '.' — With regard to the Santry institution, the 
 master is required to send, once a month, before the meeting of the committee, the copy- 
 books of the boys, in which they have been working at sums in aritlmietic, mensuration, 
 trigonometry, or mechanics, as the case may be. By this means we aro able to >.ee, from 
 month to month, what the boys have been doing. The drawings of the boys arc sent, also,, 
 every montli to the meeting of the committee. Then, with regard to the other schools, 
 evei-y half-year the copy-ljooks of the boys are sent up to the connnittce, in ord^r that they 
 ^^y .)"''{?'' '^^' their progress in Avriting. 
 
 20679. The boy.s in the senior class at Santry are at present taught science, to a con- 
 siderable extent? — Yes; the boys in the senior class have to go through the whole of plane 
 and spherical trigonometry, the elements of mechanics, the elements of algebra, the elements 
 of astronomy, hydrostatics, and mensuration. 
 
 20680. What inducements are held out to them to pursue so extensive a i:ourse of study — 
 their only reward, in case of diligence, is a tesiimonial ? — There is another iudutemcut.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 75 
 
 The Rev. Elias Thackeray, of Dundalk, was, for many years, the devoted friend of the society, 
 and devoted a good deal of time to the alvanforncnt of the scliools. Wlicn he died, 
 about a year and a-half ago, a question was brought before the committee as to the 
 propriety of marking the society's estimation of his services by some testimonial ; and it was 
 at my suggestion that an exhibition was founded in Trinity College of £40 a-year, tenable 
 for four years by any boy who, having been in any of the society's schools for three years, 
 came up to Trinity College, and obtained a science sizars' ip. This exhilntion, I under- 
 stand, is at present causing a good deal of emulation and exertion among the senior boys of 
 the (litforent schools. 
 
 206S1. Was it not Kev. Elias Thackeray who suggested the plan of competitive examina- 
 tion ? — It was, I believe ; but I w.as not then a member of the committee. 
 
 '20(i82. It has been stated by Mr. Ardill that there are libraries attached to the school — 
 have you any suggestions to offer, or any statement to make respecting their usefulness ?^ — I 
 have made inquiries as to the use the boys made of these libraries, and found tliat at Dundalk 
 and Athlone they made considerable use of the books. There is no personal means of 
 knowing whether they make use of them at the Pococke institution ; but at Santry the 
 master told me the boys had not time to read them. I know at Diindalk the library is very 
 highly valued, and the boys generally come forward with subscriptions of their own every 
 half year, or every year, to meet the donation of bdoks which tlie society sends down. 
 
 20653. What is the regulation respecting the supply of these school librai-ics ? — There is 
 no general rule; every year, generally speaking (I believe there is not an exception), there 
 is a vote of £10 granted to the lending libraries — £2 10s. to Santry, and £2 lOv. to Athlone, 
 Dundalk, and the Pococke institution each. 
 
 20654. Are there libraries in all the institutions? — I am now told there is a library at 
 the Farra institution, but I had no knowledge of it before. Farra had been an agricultural 
 institutiun, and it is only within the last two or three years that it has become a similar 
 foundation to that of Dundalk and .\thlono, but when it is properly developed it will enjoy 
 the same advantages as the other institutions do. 
 
 20685. Have you examined any of the female schools ?— No, I have never examined any 
 of the female schools. 
 
 20686. I find one of the conditions to be fidfillcd by candidates for admission into the 
 boarding schools, is that they should have been educated in schools in which Scriptural 
 instruction is given daily to all the pupils ? — I believe that is the rule. 
 
 20687. Are you not of opinion that a strict enforcement of that rule must disqualify 
 deserving pupils from obtaining the privileges of admission into the boarding schools of the 
 Incorporated Society ? — I believe the Incorporated Society carry out tliis principle in 
 enforcing that rule — that if a Protestant boy be educated at a Protestant school, where 
 there are Roman Catholic children, and that the Roman Catholic children are not allowed 
 to read the Scriptures — that boy, no matt; r what his ability or wants may be, would not be 
 eligible for election into the Incorporated Society's schools. 
 
 20688. Do you regard that rule as operating unfairly in the case of boys so circum- 
 stanced? — I do. I should wish that there was no restraint at all, as to the school from 
 which the boy comes. I should wish him to be strictly examined in Scrii'ture, and I would 
 have no restrictions as to a boy's previous place of education. 
 
 20689. It has been stated to the Commissioners that a very beneficial influence has beea 
 exercised upon the primary schools by the system of competitive examinations, would not 
 this beneficial influence be still more widely diffused if schools from which candidates were 
 admissible were relieved from the restrictive operation of this rule ? — I believe it would. 
 I believe the more you can extend competition, the better both for the boys and the schools 
 from which they come, and our own schools too. 
 
 20690. Were you present at the meeting of the committee, some two or three years ago, 
 when the rule was made more stringent than it had been ? — I do not remember the questioa 
 being brought btibre the society — p^'rhaps I was not present. 
 
 20691. Do you think that the rule might be relaxed without in any way infringing 
 upon the character of the schools of the Incorporated Society, as distinguished from other 
 schools, from which pupils are admissible? — I think that it might. I cannot conceive what 
 connexion there is between the education we give, and tlie education given in other schools. 
 All we require is a very extended knowledge of the Scriptures ; and we should not, in my 
 opinion, make any inijuiries as to where that knowledge was acquired. 
 
 20692. Could you be satisfied that the general system of religious instruction in those schools 
 from which the candidates for admission into your boarding schools might come, was a good 
 one, even though that rule was not absolutely enforced? — I have not been called on to consider 
 the question with regard to the quality of religious instruction to be given in the primary 
 schools ; but I should say that Piotestant boys, in schools such as you describe, might be 
 taught Scripture just as well as in any other schools. 
 
 20693. Have you any suggestions to offer with regard to the working of the schools in 
 connexion with the Incorporated Society, or with reference to the general ailministration 
 of the society's afl^airs? — I have not. I beheve that the committee and the society at 
 large have full powers to make any changes they wish in the mode of education and the 
 general advancement of the schools under their care. I have always experienced the 
 greatest willingiiess and desire on the part of the committee to make their schools as 
 perfect as possible, so that I do not think that there would be any addition to the powers of 
 the society which it does not enjoy at present. 
 
 20694. And any suggestions that you 
 Vol. II. - - j^^ 
 
 DOBI.IK. 
 
 Inrrirporafctl Sorirty 
 
 in Duhlinfor 
 
 promoting English 
 
 I'rotestnnt ScliooU 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 Rev. John W. Stubb». 
 
 might feel disposed to make with regard to the
 
 76 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Drill. IS. 
 
 litcorpnnUed Sniir/t/ 
 
 in Dtthlin /or 
 
 proiHOlin/j E,iiilish 
 
 Protestant SchuuU 
 
 in Ire/tniil. 
 
 Rev.JolmW. Stulih.*. 
 
 management of pai-ticular schools, you are free to offer at the meetings of the standing 
 committee, where you think it likely they will be attended to? — I have ahvay.s found a <;;reat 
 desire on the part of the committee to attend to any recomnicndation.s 1 brought before them. 
 
 20r)!)5. Mr. Stephens. — Are there any rules fur the guidance of the auditors in the 
 ■hscharge of their duties ? — There are no rules, I believe, except that we require a quorum 
 of three to audit the accounts. Formerly, I understand that the books of the society were 
 always sent over, after being properly drawn up, to Somerset House, and when audited 
 there, sent back. We have always endeavoured to conduct tlie auditing of the accounts on 
 the same principle on which they were formerly audited by the (Tovernmeiit. 
 ^ 20G96. How long have you been auditor '? — I have been auditor about five or six years. 
 
 20G',t7. Then, you will be able to give us full and accurate information respecting these 
 accounts to-morrow. 
 
 20698. Rev. Dr. Graves. — The Commissioners will now adjourn the inquiry until eleven 
 o'clock to-morrow. 
 
 W. Pidgeon, Esq. JVilliam Pidgeon, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 20699. Mr. Stepliens. — What books have you brought witli you, Mr. Pidgeon? — I have 
 no books ; I brought all the accounts, which I was required to do, and I gave them to 
 Dr. Hancock. I was required at the same time to send a series of my accounts ; and they 
 are being made out since I got the order of the Commissioners. 1 am obliged to go north, 
 west, south, and east of Ireland, to collect the rents of the society. The accounts are being 
 made cut, and I believe I shall be able to produce them to-moi'row. 
 
 20700. You had bettor bring them with you. 1 believe that you only keep tlic agent's 
 accounts ? — That is all ; I liave no connexion with any tiling else. My duty is simply confined 
 to managing the estates of the society, to receiving tiieir rents, and lodging the payments to 
 the credit of the Incorporated Society, in the Bank of Ireland. 
 
 20701. Are your accounts audited ?— My accounts are audited.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 77 
 
 20702. 
 Febniar)' 
 
 tl 
 
 ley wii 
 
 tlie ca:^li- 
 
 DuBLiN, 19x11 December, 185G. 
 
 Present — Marquess of Kildark, Clialnnan ; Rev. J)r. Gravks, Dr. Andrews, Mr. Stephens, 
 
 and Dr. Haxcock, Secretary 
 
 The Incorporated Society — (continuccl). 
 Rev. UlrliititJ Aidill turtlier exainiiieil. 
 Cliiiiniian. — Do you liaml in a list of tlie C'onnuittee of Fifteen wlio were elected in 
 1855? — I do. [Document is handed in.] 
 20703. Can you state wlieii each of these membens was ai)i)ointed to ai't on tlie coinniitti'c '/ 
 — In February, 1855. 
 
 20701. Can yon give the date of their original appointment as members of the society ? — 
 I cannot give the date ot the a]ipointment of the Committee of Fifteen — -they were a]i]ioiiited 
 at various times. 
 
 20705. Could you state at what time each of them commenced to act on the Committee of 
 Fifteen? — By reference to the books, my Lord, 1 could, but not otherwise. All the 13ishoj)s, 
 and certain of the Judges, are e.\-officio memliers of the society ; but they are elected members 
 of th(! Committee of Fifteen liy ballot, at the meeting held the first Wednesday in Feliruary. 
 2070(3. Have you got the books in the room, by which you could inform the Commissioners 
 at wdiat time they were first a])poiiited on the Committee of Fifteen? — -Yes; 1 have a book 
 which gives some information, jjcrhaps, but not all on that subject. 
 
 20707. The Commissioners would like to know how often each of the members of the 
 Committee of Fifteen attended within the last three years ? — That can be ascertaineii by 
 reference to the books. Some of them have not attended for the last three years. 
 
 20708. When yon have ascertained what the Commissioners wish to know, 
 I'csuine your examination. 
 
 Rev. Juhii William S/ubhs, f.t.c.d., further examined. 
 
 20709. Mr. S/f/i/icus. — 1 believe, Mr. Stubbs, the book handed to you now, 
 book belonging to the Incorporated Society ? — It is. 
 
 20710. Will you be so good as to turn to page seventy-eight? — I have it. 
 
 20711. Will you read the certificate of audit, which is signed by the Rev. IVIr. Blacker 
 and by yourself, as auditors of the accounts of the society — "We, the autlitors of accounts of 
 the Incorporated Society, ha\iiig examined the foregoing account of the Rev. Richard 
 Ardill, secretary to the said society, commencing on the 1st day of April, 1854, and ending 
 ;31st day of March, 1855, compared it with the order of the General Board and Committee 
 of Fifteen, and inspected the vouchers, do find it to be a just and true account ; and that the 
 balance remaining in the hands of the Rev. Richard Ardill, aforesaid, is as stated above, and 
 amounts to the sum of £54() ll,!;. Id. sterling; wdiich balance we recommend to be applied 
 in the final discharge of the builder's account, for works executed at the Athlone Rauelagh 
 institution, agreeably to the minute of Committee of 2nd of May, instant, rather than that 
 the amount should be temporarily funded to the credit of the society. Dated this 21st of 
 May, 1855. — George Blacker, Chairman ; Joun W. Stubbs." 
 
 20712. What does the column of figures, next to the money column, refer to, at the riglit- 
 hand side of that book? — The column of figures refers to the places in the committee book, 
 or general Board book, at the meetings of which these expenses were ordered to be incurred. 
 There are two books kept — one containing the minutes of the Committee of Fifteen ; another 
 containing the minutes of the society at large; and the small figures here, refer to the 
 minutes either of the Committee of Fifteen, or of the general Board, by wdiich certain expenses 
 were allowed, and ordered : so that when we have this book before us, we can, at once, refer 
 to the day, and to the place, and the occasion at which the ditterent expenses were ordered 
 by the society, or by the committee. 
 
 20713. Are the items in your accounts posted? — Each item is entered in this book. 
 
 20714. What book do you refer to? — The cash-book. 
 
 20715. Is that cash-book IMr. Ardill's account with the society ?— This is j\Ir. Ardill's 
 account with the society. 
 
 20716. Is there any account for the society? — There is no account for the society. Tiiere 
 is no account of the society with itself, except the general annual balance sheets, which are 
 jireparcd after these accounts have been audited 
 
 20717. Then there are only two accounts, if I understand you aright — the account lietween 
 Mr. Ardill ami the society, and the agent and the society? — And the agenfs accounts. 
 
 20718. But there is no account for the society? — If I understand" your question, the 
 answer I will give is this : there is no account in w hich the income and expenditure of the 
 Incorporated Society are set against one another, according as the income is received, or the 
 expenditure incurred. Mr. Ardill keeps an account of the money which comes into his hands, 
 and of the mode in wdiich he expends it. 
 
 20711). That is only an account between him and the society? — That is all. After the 
 books are prepared, there is another book wdiich is not audited, that contains the expenditure 
 under different heads, such as the Santry school, and the various institutions under the 
 society. 
 
 20720. If there are two accounts — namely, one account between Mr. Ai-dill and the society, 
 another between the agent and the society — wdiere is yoiu" cash-book ? — I always considered 
 this book was the cash-book. 
 
 DlT.IIV. 
 
 fnrnrjmrnliil SorU ly 
 
 ill Duhl'm fnr 
 
 priniiul'mij Eniilv'li 
 
 Pniliixlniil Sfld'oh 
 
 in Inlniid — con. 
 
 lii'v. llicliiinl .Arilili. 
 
 ]:ev..Iuli:iW. Stubbs.
 
 78 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Incorporated Society 
 
 in DublinfoT 
 
 promoiinif Em/Ush 
 
 Protestnni Schools 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 ■Rev. John W. Stubbs. 
 
 20721. But that is merely an account between Mr. Ardill and the society? — It is Mr. 
 i\jiliirs account of the money received by him. 
 
 20722. What cash-book is that? — I alwayj considered it to be the society's cash-book with 
 Mr. Ardill. 
 
 20723. Do you consider it to be the cash-book of the society? — I must say I am not at 
 all acqu.ainted with book-keeping. My object in becoming a member of the committee, was 
 to examine these items minutely — to see that it was honestly laid out; to satisfy myself 
 that every thing was honest, and fair and square, between the society and Mr. Ardill, the 
 Incorporated Society and Mr. Pidgeon; but I am not read up in book-keeping, and 
 cannot ansvv'er these minute questions. 
 
 20724. I will now proceed to ask more enlarged questions. Have you any book, from 
 which you can show the assets and liabihties of the society on the 31st of December, 1854? 
 — There is no book of that natui'e 
 
 20725. Can you state, ha-^nng all the books before you, what were the assets and liabilities 
 of the society on the 31st of December, 1854, or at any other date in 1854 or 1855? — I 
 could not rightly say ; but 1 think by referring to the general balance sheet, which contains 
 the expenditure during certain yeai's, and the income during certain years 
 
 20726. Will you be so good as to read the first item of income? — To cash in the Bank of 
 Ireland, to the credit of the society on the 1st of April, 1854, £1,982 6.<;. Id. 
 
 20727. Is that income? — It was a floating balance that arose out of the excess of income 
 over the expenditure of the preceding j'ear. Some years our expenses are larger than 
 others, and we have a floating balance. 
 
 20728. That is, you had a balance for the year 1854, and ? — We had a balance which 
 
 was applicable to the payment of our quarterly accounts. 
 
 20729. In point of fact, is not this the state of the case — You had a balance, and did you 
 not bring it forward into the account of the current year, and then call it "income"? — 
 We ought to call it income. 
 
 20730. Did you deduct your liabilities before you brought forward your income ? — Perhaps 
 I miglit be allowed to ask Mr. Ardill one qiiestion. — [At what time, Mr. Ardill, do we pay 
 the quarter accounts of the schools? 
 
 20731. Rev. li. Ardill The half-yearly accounts are due on the 25th of December, and 
 
 28th of June. There are no quarterly accounts except in a few instances ; and they are referi'ed 
 to the next general Board, or committee, on the 28th of June, or 28th of December afterwards, 
 and when ordered they are paid. They may not, and are not usually paid ; as, for instance, 
 a debt may be due by the society on the 28th of December, and it is not laid before the 
 committee until the Board in February, for there is no Board in January : it is laid before 
 the Board in February, and paid soon afterwards, perhaps in INIarch, or as soon as the 
 funds of the society admit of the payment. I attend the meetings of the Committee 
 of Fifteen as often as my avocations permit me; and I remember on certain occasions, 
 th'.it sometimes quarterly, but mostly half-yearly, accounts of the schools are passed by the 
 committee. 
 
 20732. I am not exactly aware in what month they are passed ; and my object in asking 
 Mr. Ardill the question is this: — If it be true, that on the 1st of April, we were in process of 
 paying the half-yearly accounts, there must necessarily have been some money in bank to meet 
 that expenditure, and the object with which I asked Mr. Ardill the question, was to ascer- 
 tain the exact month in which we made the half-yearly expenditure. It turns out to be 
 about the 1st of April, that a large outlay is made on the part of the society; and therefore, 
 it is necessarj'- to have a balance in bank to meet those payments. 
 
 20733. But j-our balance in bank does not become income of the current year until 
 the liabilities of the preceding year have been paid f — Certainly not. 
 
 a07o4. Then, upon the account before you, where are the liabilities set out? — As far as 
 I understand, the income of the society for one year is stated on one side, and on the 
 other, total expenditure for the year is stated. We are quite satisfied with a balance sheet 
 of that kind. In fact, it was at my suggestion this balance sheet was originally adopted ; 
 and my object in wishing to have this balance sheet was 
 
 20735. Is it a balance sheet according to the technical meaning of that word? — I con- 
 fess I do not know what a balance sheet, in the technical sense, means. As I told 
 you before, Mr. Stephens, I am not an accountant. I endeavour to see that every 
 thing is done far, square, and honest, and I do not understand the technical matters 
 connected with book-keeping. I never was in a merchant's oflice in my life. I never had 
 any knowledge of the way accounts were generally kept when I became a member of the 
 committee of account. 
 
 2073fi. But have you not audited the accounts? — I examined each item separately. I 
 satisfied myself that the expenses were fairly incurred and expended as the society 
 required, and that the dates were correct. 
 
 20737. What is the date of your last audit?— 21st of May, 1P5.'). 
 
 20738. What were your assets .and liabilities on that day '} — I could not state. 
 
 20730. Did you not direct the balance to be paid in discharge of a liability ? — We did. 
 
 20740. And have you not so expressly stated it? — Yes. 
 
 20741. Ought the balance, under such circumstances, to liiive been treated as income, 
 as you have done, in that balance sheet? — I speak under correction; but my iiupi-ession 
 is that we received a sum of money from the Midland Great Westci'u Railway for certain 
 premises in Allilune, which sum of money was looked upon by us as an extrnoidinary 
 receipt; and (;ur (object was to apply that surplus money to liquidating the debt incurred
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 79. 
 
 by enlarging our school at Athlone; and, consequently, it w.is brougl)t into the accounts 
 every year. 
 
 20742. But (lid yuu not introduce it into tlie accounts as income? — Yes, as income to 
 the society. 
 
 20743. You have stated, Mr. Stubbs, in your certificate of audit — tliatj'ou have compared 
 the accoimt with the order of the general Board and Committee of Fifteen — am I correct ? 
 —Yes. 
 
 20744. Did you coni])are it with the provisions of the charter of George II.? — We did 
 not. I never saw tlie charter of George II. 
 
 20745. Then, of course, you are not aware of its provisions? — No. 
 
 20746. [Secrelari/. — The charter of George II., returned by Mr. Ardill, as secretaiy to 
 the Incorporated Society, as tlio charter under which they are now governed, contains a 
 proviso to restrain the society from diminishing their capital stock, as follows : — " Provided 
 always, and we do expressly declare our Royal will and pleasure to be, that it shall not 
 be lawful for the said society to diminish their capital stock arising from tlie annual rent 
 or income of any ma,nors, lands, &o. ; but they shall confine their expenses yearly to 
 such annual rent or income, or to such sums of money, goods, and chattels, as shall from 
 year to year be subscribed or given to them, or the interests and profits thereof."] 
 
 20747. You have heard that portion of the charter read ? — Yes. 
 
 20748. Can the provisions of the charter be complied with unless the accounts are so 
 kept as to distinguish income from capital ? — I think it would be advisable if there was such 
 an accovmt. 
 
 20749. In compliance with tlie language of that charter, ought not the accounts to be so 
 kept as to distinguish income from capital ? — I certainly think so. 
 
 207 50. Have they been so kept? — They have been so kept, with the exception of that 
 extraordinary receipt — that is, the sum of money which was jmid by the Midland Great 
 Western Ilailway. 
 
 20751. But if the accounts were so kept as to distinguish income from capital, would 
 you not be enabled to answer my question, what the assets and liabilities of the society 
 were at the time you last audited the accounts in May '? — I would. 
 
 20752. Then, they are not so kept ? — They are not. 
 
 20758. Did you at any time examine what the capital was, or did you do any thing more 
 than examine what the receipts and expenditure were ? — I did not. 
 
 20754. Does it any where appear in the books what the capital really is ? — I think 
 not. 
 
 20755. Have you been auditor for five years ? — Five or six years. 
 
 20756. We will assume that you have been auditor five years. Did you ever, during that 
 period of time, audit the capital ? — Never. 
 
 207 57. Why do not the Incorporated Society keep their accounts on a system of double 
 entry?- — I will just simply state all I know on the subject. When I was elected a mem- 
 ber of the committee of account, I found that there were gentlemen on it who were much 
 older and more experienced than I was, because they were a long time members of the 
 society, and used to the way in which the accounts were kept.. As I told you already, my 
 object in becoming a member of the committee was, to see that every thing was honestly 
 expended, and that no expenditure was incurred which was not required. I confined 
 myself merely to examining each item minutely, and that was the only view with wiiieh I 
 examined the accounts. I wished, as a membir of the society, and elected member of the 
 Committee of Fifteen, afterwards, to be perfectly acquainted with the ordinary expenditure 
 of the society, and the ordinary income of the society ; but I was told by the gentlemen 
 who were on the committee before me that the accounts were always kept in the same 
 way, and tliat the usual and ordinary way of auditing the accounts was to satisfy myself 
 that everj' thing was honest and straightforward. 
 
 20758. Then, in point of fact, you only audited the expenditure ? — I only audited the 
 expenditure. 
 
 20759. A person of your eminence and reputation must know, Mr. Stubbs, that that 
 is not a regular way of auditing the accounts ? — I am afraid, Mr. Stephens, that you give 
 me more credit than I deserve. Whatever eminence or distinction I possess has been 
 gained inside of college, where I am more occupied in teaching and learning than in other 
 things. I never had any thing to do with money matters since I became a junior fellow, 
 and I do not know whether I shall ever be bursar ; but I have no experience as regards 
 money matters. 
 
 20760. But you must be aware that the accoimts are not regularly kept, according to 
 your own statement? — I have often wished to see clianges and improvements made in the 
 mode of keeping the accounts ; and, as I mentioned, one of tlie things which were adopted 
 by the society, at my suggestion, was a balance sheet, which has been prepared foi the last 
 two or three years, and which is at present before you. From my experience, as an auditor 
 of the accounts, I have no doubt we should so keep our accounts as to be enabled to tell, 
 at any moment, our assets and liabilities. 
 
 80701. Then, ami to understand that you cannot consent to the admissions that the 
 present system of keeping the accounts is not regular or business-like, that it is not in 
 accordance with any acknowledged system of book-keeping, and not in accordance with 
 the charter? — I think the charter has been deviated from ; and that it would bo advisable 
 that some changes were made in conducting the accounts, so as it may be caaried out to 
 the letter. 
 
 DtTBLIN. 
 
 l>ivvr])oratt:d Socir.h/ 
 
 in DuhlinJ'or 
 
 jiriimotimj liju/liyh 
 
 Proteniant Sclwuh 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 HflT.JolinW. Sliibbs.
 
 80 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 J)unnx. ,30702. Does not the charter prescribe that the accounts are to be kept in such a manner 
 
 , . as to distinguish income and capital, and have they been kept in that manner ? — No. 
 
 Ineorpo^atcd^Svckty 20768. Inasmuch as the capital, amountiig to nearly £100.000, during the five years you 
 imimntinij English liavc been auditor, has never been audited by you ? — It has never been audited. 
 Praiexinnt Srhools 20761. Although the charter directs it? — I admit that; but I never had an opportunity 
 
 01 seeing the cliarter beiore. 
 Knv..T,.hnW.Stubb?. .)0705. Then, in point of fact, when I ask you what is the system by which you have 
 kept your accounts, tiie only answer you can give me is, tliat you have pursued a similar 
 line of conduct to that which your predecessoi's have pursued '! — Yes. 
 
 2076(!. L)id you audit the last balance sheet ? — We did not, and the reason of it was 
 this — it is not jnepared until after the general audit — that is, the audit of Mr. Pidgeon's 
 accounts and Mr. Ardill's accounts. When this audit has been made, it is then prepared 
 and laid before the Board. My object with regard to the getting this balance sheet 
 prepared was, that the Board might have before them, if any expenditure was required for 
 the erecting of schools or other purposes, an account of the income and expenditure, in 
 order that they might at once see whether it would be advisable to vote any additional 
 expenditure or not. The object I had in view was, that every member of the society 
 should have a tolerably accurate account at every Board meeting of what sum of money 
 we had at our disposal ; and what we were already bound to. 
 
 20767. Did you audit the disbursement book? — I tliink the disbursement book was not 
 audited, but it is generally compared v.ith the cash-book. 
 
 207()8. I believe you are only one of five members of the finance committee ? — Only one. 
 20709. Do you know whether any of the other members of the committee are conversant 
 with book-keeping ? — I think not ; they are all nearly clergymen, and some of them do 
 not attend at all. Rev. George Blacker, Mr. Stewart Blacker, and myself are the persons 
 generally in attendance, and none of us are conversant with merchants' accounts — we 
 can only know wliat is straightforward and honest, as persons of common sense. 
 
 20770. What part does Mr. Blacker take in auditing these accounts? — Mr. George 
 Blacker generally goes over the d ites, and very often examines the vouchers. I also, 
 generally speaking, examine the vouchers. AVe divide the labour between us as much as 
 possible. It is a very laborious office, and occupies me near a fortnight every year ; and 
 sometimes I can scarcely afford time, but I give as much time as I can. 
 
 20771. If the accounts were kept in a regular mannei-, or if an accountant were 
 employed for the purpose, would the audit take very long ? — I would conceive myself 
 bound to do the very same thing, no matter what way the accounts were kept. I would 
 conceive myself bound, in such a case, to examine every item of expenditure, to see 
 that it had been properly incurred, and also that it was made in conformity' with the 
 directions either given by the Board or committee. 
 
 20772. Would you not think it your duty to examine what the capital was ? — 1 would 
 consider it my duty now. 
 
 2077:!. But you did not consider it to be your duty for tlie last five years? — I have 
 ascertained now it is my duty, but I was told, from time to time, what the capital was, 
 but I never examined it minutely. 
 
 20774. Does it appear from any of the books what the capital of the society is, although 
 we know, as a matter of fact, it is upwards of £100,000 ? — It does not. 
 
 20775. By what committee books or accounts could you check the entries made 
 by the bank clerks? — The bank-book is submitted to the committee of account, by 
 which they see the sums of money which have been allocated to Mr. ArdiU. He takes 
 credit for these sums of money, and Mr. Pidgeon takes credit for his lodgments. We see 
 the statement of the drafts on the opposite side, which we compare with the blocks, and 
 we find that their totals correspond. 
 
 20776. Is there any bank account in your books ? — Not in these books. 
 
 20777. Who makes the entries in the bank jiass-book '! — They are made in the Bank of 
 Ireland. 
 
 207 7K. What check have you that these cnti'ies arc correctly made by the bank clerks ? 
 — We have this check : Mr. Pidgeon, in his accounts, takes credit for certain sums of 
 money lodged in the Bank of Ireland. We compare them with the bank-book ; then Mr. 
 Ardill states he has received a certain sum of money, by drafts signed by members of the 
 conniiittee. We compare the entries in tlie haidc-book with tlie draft-book and the blocks, 
 which are always signed by the chairman. 
 
 20779. Are tlie credits posted by Mr. .Vrdill into a banking account? — Mr. Pidgeon 
 takes credit for his lodgments in the Bank of Ireland, and we sec by the bank-book that 
 these lodgments have been really made. 
 
 2O7H0. That is only an account which is kept by the hank in the bank pass-book ? — Yes 
 
 207ft 1. Have you no book yourself? — No ; nor the society. 
 
 207M2. Have you a Goveruinent fund ai^count in your books, by which you can see at 
 any moment of time, the purchase and value of stock? — If (government stock is purchased 
 or sold, it is entered iu the cash-boolc by ?ilr. Anlill. 
 
 207 83. Supposing it was sold, and tlie cash was not brought out, liow could you detect 
 it, or how could you check it ? — I do not know we should be able to check it. 
 
 2078 1. Have you any account with the agent of the society, by which you can ascertain 
 the balance at any given time in the hands of the agent? — Wo have Mr. Pidgeon"s account 
 set forth in the balance sheet every year. 
 
 20785. Has Mr. Pidgeon an account with the society? — Yes.
 
 EVIDENCE. 81 
 
 'iOTBO. Tlie account y.)ii liavc rcforrod to, is not an ai-comit willi llie society, but Mr. Ijiblin. 
 
 Pidgcoii's statcMucnt. Vou have no counter statcnnt'iit, or, in other words, you have no f,,,.,,,..,,,^^^/ Socieiu 
 account kept for the society with Mr. I'iiigeon ? — We have an account with Mr. I'idgeon ,„ />„/,/,„ /„r 
 of the sums of money which lie receives and lodges. j-i..m"/i»7 /im/liuli 
 
 •20787. Where ?— Mr. Pidt^'eon submits liis accounts every year. He gives a detailed '''''/i"'f",'/,^'J 
 account of tlie rental of each j)roi)c'rly — of the sums of money wliicji are dut,' at tlie begin- j,^^^, j,,),^^y i^,|,|,|„ 
 ing of the year, and the sums of money coHcctcd during the year, and the sums of money 
 paid by liim to tlic credit of tlie society. 
 
 207H8. Does Mr. I'idgeon report to you from month to month, or from week to week, any 
 sums of money wliicli he receives ? — He does not. 
 
 2078'J. Only at the end of the year ? — Only at the end of the year. 
 
 20790. Then you cannot tell at any moment of tiuie what money is in Mr. Pidgeon"s 
 hands, or liow mucli ni<mey he has paid ? — No, we cannot, except at the end of the year. 
 
 ::20701. And that by his own statement '? — We can see what sum of money he has received 
 by his statement, and wliat sum of money he has lodged by the bank book, and tlie sum 
 whicli he has paid by the vouchers. 
 
 20792. Are these receipts brought out at the foot of Mr. Pidgeon's account? — They arenot. 
 
 30793. What do you call the end of the year, so far as regards Mr. Pidgeon's accounts ? 
 — I believe the :ilst of Miirch. 
 
 207 94. When did you audit Mr. Pidgeon's accounts? — These are Mr. Ardill's accounts 
 I have before me — 1 have not got Mr. Pidgeon's accounts. I know the date we audit is 
 always in May, before tlie annual dejiutation goes out. [Hands in the account.] This is 
 the account of the Pinnclagh estate, for May, 1854. 
 
 20795. When did you audit it? — In 1855. There is a part of the year 1858 included in 
 that account. It was furnished to us in March, 1855, and audited by us some time in May, 
 1855. 
 
 20791!. Why is not the November half-year's rent brought into that account ? — Do you 
 mean the rents which were received in November? 
 
 207 97. Which were due in November ? — They are not received until tlie May afterwards, 
 which in Ireland is called the running half-year. 
 
 20798. Is it the uniform practice to give six months' credit? — It is not the uniform 
 practice, but it is very generally done throughout Ireland. 
 
 20799. I believe that tlicre are a variety of trust funds? — Yes. 
 
 20800. How many ? I suppose you can tell from the books ? — W^e have the Eanelagh 
 estate, the Pococke estate, and several general estates. 
 
 20801. Perhaps you would give me their names and their annual value or iKconie? — 
 
 Rogerson's Cork estate, city of Cork, .... 
 
 Hogerson's Dublin estate, county and city of Dublin, 
 Killincliy estate, county of Down, .... 
 
 Dean Stewart's estate, Loutb, ..... 
 
 Farra estate, Westnieath, ...... 
 
 Ditto (bead rent), Westnieath, ..... 
 
 Lands and premises of Bracklcy, Anna^di, 
 Baggot-street, city of Dublin, ..... 
 
 Ballycastle, county of Antrim, ..... 
 
 Charieniont-place, Dublin, ...... 
 
 Clontarf, Dublin, 
 
 Clonniel, Tipperary, ....... 
 
 Celbridge school farm, Kilduro, ..... 
 
 Cleagb, Tipperary, ....... 
 
 Curragldass, Tipperarj', ...... 
 
 Cliarleville, Cork, ....... 
 
 Dunnianway, Cork, ....... 
 
 Garrigetteen, Limerick, ...... 
 
 Innishannon, Cork, ....... 
 
 Kevin-street, city of Dublin, ..... 
 
 20802. What is the gross income ? — This statement whicli I am reading is for the year 
 1843, and I never saw it before. I vras not a member of the society at the time this was 
 drawn up. 
 
 20803. Where is the statement which was submitted last year? — I have not it before 
 me; but this is a continuation of that for 1848. 
 
 Killoteran, county of Watcrford, ..... 
 
 Monastcreven, KilJarc, ...... 
 
 Mitchell's bequest, county Tipperary and city of Dublin, 
 Mount Stewart, county of Dublin. .... 
 
 Newport, Ti]>]ierary, ....... 
 
 Santry scliool farm, Dublin. ..... 
 
 Stradbalh', tiueon's County (lands unlet, probable income), 
 Shannongrove, Limerick, ...... 
 
 York-row, city of Dublin, . . . . . 
 
 Celbridge rcntcliargo, rounty of Kildare, 
 Ormsby's bequest and rcntcharge, Sligo, 
 Vol. II. M 
 
 nnual Income. 
 
 Hea 
 
 IKe 
 
 nts 
 
 £ s. 
 
 d. 
 
 £ 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 870 2 
 
 5 
 
 11 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 782 
 
 11 
 
 41 
 
 2 
 
 9 
 
 347 10 
 
 6 
 
 42 
 
 IS 
 
 9 
 
 429 19 
 
 11 
 
 38 
 
 12 
 
 1 
 
 307 
 47 1 
 
 6/ 
 
 108 
 
 11 
 
 5 
 
 24 7 
 
 4 
 
 7 
 
 8 
 
 4 
 
 105 5 
 
 
 
 5S 
 
 8 
 
 6 
 
 13 16 
 
 11 
 
 
 — 
 
 
 50 
 
 
 
 63 
 
 
 
 
 
 111 13 
 
 4 
 
 40 
 
 6 
 
 8 
 
 120 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 10 
 
 5 
 
 67 17 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 IG 
 
 
 
 23 2 
 
 
 
 
 — 
 
 
 75 3 
 
 10 
 
 5 
 
 12 
 
 8 
 
 25 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 10 
 
 2 
 
 235 10 
 
 iy 
 
 
 — 
 
 
 33 14 
 
 G 
 
 13 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 152 13 
 
 10 
 
 290 
 
 15 
 
 3 
 
 Annual In 
 
 come. 
 
 Head IJcnts 
 
 £ s. 
 
 d. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 52 
 
 
 
 — 
 
 152 3 
 
 1 
 
 2 8 10 
 
 4 12 
 
 3 
 
 — 
 
 40 
 
 
 
 2 3 2 
 
 34 7 
 
 6 
 
 38 3 2 
 
 56 
 
 
 
 33 1 7- 
 
 20 
 
 
 
 — 
 
 89 
 
 
 
 184 12 4 
 
 239 1 
 
 6 
 
 — 
 
 32 6 
 
 2 
 
 —
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ddbuh. 
 
 Incorporated Society 
 
 in Dublin far 
 
 promutiny Ent/liah 
 
 f*rotestunt Schools 
 
 iu Irleand. 
 
 Kev.JohnW. Stubbs. 
 
 Rev. Ricliard Ardill. 
 
 20804. What is the aggregate annual value ? — £i,542 O.v. id. is the tot ; and detlucting 
 £1,002 16.?. 8(/., the head rents, the net income is £3,539 3.v. Sof. 
 
 20805. Where did you find those figures- -are they checked by any hooks in the posses- 
 sion of the society ? — They are checked by the receipts from the different estates. There 
 is one book kept for the Ranelagh estate, and another for the general estates. There 
 are three books which we audit. 
 
 20&06. Where are those books ? — The Ranelagh estate consists partly of a tithe-rent- 
 charge, of which the society are proprietors. 
 
 20807. Then you have a separate accomit for each trust? — We have a separate account 
 for the Ranelagh estate — or we have, rather, two accounts for that estate — one for the 
 rentcharge, which is derived from the parish, another for the rents received out of it. 
 
 20808. Take the case of Rogerson's Cork estate, and tell me the balance due on that 
 particular trust when j-ou last audited the accounts '? — We did not keep a debtor and 
 creditor account with each individual estate. 
 
 20809. Nor of each trust '?— No. 
 
 20810. Nor of the whole? — We have the whole added together — the amount received 
 (luring the year, with wliich we compare the different items, and see that each item is true, 
 and the sums of monej^ lodged by Mr. Pidgeon correspond. 
 
 20811. Take the case of the Pococke estate, and teU me the balance on foot of that 
 particular trust, when j'ou last audited the accounts ? — I have got two papers before me. 
 One contains the names of each townland, and the other, of the tenants. 
 
 20812. Who drew that out? — It was drawn up by Mr. Pidgeon. 
 
 20813. Is it from Mr. Pidgeon that we are to get this information? — Yes. 
 
 20814. Have you no other accoimt? — No. 
 
 20815. Could you not give the respective balances due on each particular trust, except 
 by Mr. Pidgeon's statement? — I could not. 
 
 20816. Have you any thing to check Mr. Pidgeon's statement? — Nothing whatever; but 
 Mr. Pidgeon gives a general siunmary of the rents of the society every year. 
 
 20817. Is that entered in any book? and if so, produce it? — It is entered on the sheet 
 which is audited. 
 
 20818. But that is Mr. Pidgeon's statement, it is not the society's account? — No. 
 
 20819. Then, whatever Mr. Pidgeon states to the society, they audit and keep, and do 
 not jiost it into anj^ ledger of their own? — I am not sure that they do. 
 
 20820. Do they post it into any book ? — [ do not know that they do. In auditing Mr. 
 Pidgeon accounts we require him to produce the accounts of the previous year, wliich we 
 compare with his statement. 
 
 20821. Do you ever go back in aud'iting Mr. Pidgeon's accoiuits beyond the current 
 year ? — I think we go back the past year. 
 
 20822. Did you ever go beyond the past year and current j^ear ? — We never go beyond 
 the two accounts. 
 
 20823. Supposing that a mistake had been made six years ago, how could j'ou detect 
 it ?- — When I became a member of the society first, Mr. Pidgeon sent his accounts to me 
 in college, i examined them minutely, and satisfied myself that all was right then. 
 
 20824. For how many yeai's did he send you the accounts ? — For one year before my 
 experience commenced. I can only state that no mistake has occurred since I became 
 concerned with the auditing of the accounts. 
 
 20825. How did you know that the statement he sent you was correct? — I took his 
 word for it. 
 
 20826. Had you any book to check the statements of Mr. Pidgeon ? — None whatever. 
 
 20827. Have you now?— No. 
 
 20828. You commenced with Mr. Pidgeon's statement, and continued so ? — I com- 
 menced with Mr. Pidgeon's statement, taking it for granted that the committee of account 
 had ascertained that all was right — I mean the previous committee of account. 
 
 20829. When you looked over the statement on this first occasion had you an account 
 of the assets and liabilities of the property? — I had not. I had no reference at the time, 
 and did not know much about the management of estates. I was only a junior mernber 
 in office; but I added up the different tots, and made myself acquainted with the items of 
 expenditure. 
 
 20830. Is Mr. Blacker acquainted with accounts ? — Mr. Stewart Blacker is a good arith- 
 metician, but I do not know whether he is an accountant. 
 
 208;51. U'hen you cannot tell me what was the balance on each particular trust at any 
 one time that you audited the accounts ? — I cannot. 
 
 20832. Have you any means of ascei-taining that fact from your books ? — No. 
 
 20838. Chairman. — The Commissioners understand that j'our presence is required else- 
 where, and will re-examine you when you return. 
 
 Rev. liichard Ardill further examined. 
 
 20834. Clitiirtnnn. — Mr. Ardill, arc you able to give the ('(unmissicmers information 
 respecting the Committee of Fifteen ? — This return, which I hand in, has been made out 
 by my clerk. [Document is handed in.] 
 
 20835. [Scnrclary. — Tlie document handed in by Mr. Ardill is enlitlcd, tlie attendance 
 of members of the Committee of Fifteen, during three years, ended November, 1855. The 
 Rev. George Blacker attended twenty-nine committees; the Hon. and Very Rev. the Dean 
 of St. Patrick's, eleven ; Rev. J. H. Stubbs, fifteen ; Rev. J. W. Stubbs, f.t.c.d., fifteen ;
 
 EVIDENCE. 83 
 
 Stewart Blacker, Esq., twenty-seven ; Lord Bishop of Meatli, two ; Venerable Archdeacon Uuih.in. 
 
 of Glendiilongh, elected Februiuy, 1855, five; only seven members out of the fifteen /„,.„™„r«^(/ SucUtij 
 
 attended. The greatest number of attendances was twenty-nine.] in Tiuhlinfvr 
 
 2083(). How many attendances could there be beyond twenty-nine ? — There is no com- v^omuimj Eyligh 
 
 mittee held in January, and no conmuttce held ni July, a.s the deputation is then absent. ,„ jnlmd. 
 
 20837. [SKcrc'iari/ There could be about thirty attendances; the auditor has attended Rev JolinW.Siubbs. 
 
 thirty meetings. Those who did not attend are His Grace the I^ord Primate, the Arch- 
 deacon of Dublin, the Bishop of Tuam, the Lord Bishop of Killaloe, the Lord Bishop of 
 
 Ossory and Ferns, the Archdeacon of Endy, the Rev. Elias Thacliuray (died May, 1h54), 
 Kev. Dr. Sadleir, s.f.t.cd., Rev. Gib.sou Black (ceased to be a member of the committee 
 in February, 1855), the Rev. William Chichester O'Neill (elected a member in February, 
 1855). These did not attend at all— in fact, there are seven members who did not 
 attend at all these three years.] 
 
 William Pidffeon, Esq., sworn and examined. -^^ Pidgeon, Esq. 
 
 20838. Cliainiuiii. — What office do you hold under the Incorporated Society? — Land 
 agent. 
 
 20839. When were you appointed to tliat office? — In 1842. I was then appointed sole 
 agent ; but for ten years previously I had been assistant agent. 
 
 20840. When were you ajipoiuted assistant agent? — I think it was in 1831. 
 
 20811. Did you hold any office under the society previous to your appointment ? — I was 
 assistant agent up to 1842. 
 
 20842. Did you not hold the office of assistant registrar, and assistant agent? — I did. 
 
 20843. Did you hold any office before you were appointed assistant agent and registrar? 
 — Yes; I was in the service of the society before 1831 as assistant registrar. 
 
 20844. When were you appointed assistant registrar? — I entered the service of the 
 society in the year 1825 or 1820. 
 
 20845. Did you hold the office of assistant agent between 1825 and 1831? — No; 
 there were separate agents throughout the country under the board for the respective 
 estates. 
 
 20840. In 1831, when these separate agencies were united, you were appointed assistant 
 agent ? — Mr. Otway was appointed agent, and I was ajjpointed assistant agent. The board 
 did awa}' with all tlie local agents of the society. 
 
 20847. Had you any knowledge of the management of land before j-ou were ajjpointed 
 assistant agent? — Yes; my nearest connexions are large land-owners. I had an opportu- 
 nity of seeing a good deal of farming both in Scotland and Ireland. 
 
 20848. Wliat were your duties as assistant agent? — To visit the estates, collect the rents, 
 and generally manage them. 
 
 20849. What additional duties have yon to perform now as agent to what you had as 
 imder-agent ? — Mr. OtWciy was then agent. I take charge of the whole of the corre- 
 spondence and have the sole management of the estates now, and have had since 1842. 
 
 20S50. In point of fact, are j'our duties now different from vrhat they were at the time 
 you were under- agent? — Not different; but thej' devolve solely upon me. 
 
 20851. Is there any assistant agent at present? — None. In fact, I would say there is 
 less labour and trouble now than there was formerly, because the estates are now in a 
 very flourishing and v\'holesome condition ; they were not so formerly, at least the majority 
 of them were not so. 
 
 20852. In what particulars were the estates in an unsatisfactory condition at the time 
 of your appointment ? — They had not, perhaps, been so well looked after as they ought to 
 have been ; subletting was permitted without any restraint whatever ; and it is unne- 
 cessary for me to point out the evils which have resulted from that system. There were 
 many middlemen on the estates that had the lands sublet ; and since my api^ointment as 
 assistant agent, and as sole agent, these middlemen have been got rid of; and the conse- 
 quence was, that we had to take the property with a swarm of pa^iper tenants which they 
 had created. This system of subletting entailed upon me a great deal of arduous work; but 
 I am happy to say, that even those tenants whom we retained — because we were obliged 
 to get rid of some of them — are now prosperous, and, as will appear hy my late accounts, 
 they pay their rents most punctually. 
 
 20853. Dr. Andrcirs. — You say when you entered on the duties of assistant agent, that 
 there were a good number of middlemen ? — Yes. 
 
 20854. Was there a large number of small occupiers? — Yes, on many of the estates. 
 
 20855. Did you retain the occupying tenantry, so far as you had the power, and enlarge 
 their holdings ? — I did. 
 
 20850. How did you deal with the tenantry who gave up their holdings? — I was 
 authorized by the Board to make an offer of a few pounds, or a larger sum, as the case 
 might be, to be given to them on condition of their giving up peaceable possession. In 
 many cases they accepted of these terms ; but in other cases they did not ; and after 
 giving those who refused every fair opportunity to settle, and treating them with great 
 liberalitj% they were turned off" by force, and the farms were consolidated. 
 
 20857. Did you add the farms of those adjacent, so as to enlarge the intermediate 
 farms ? — Yes. 
 
 20858. Then, as to middlemen, who stood between the society and the occupying 
 tenants — how did vou act with respect to them ? — In most cases thev were in arrears with 
 
 Vol. II. ' ' M 2
 
 84 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 JJUUI.l.N. 
 
 2iicor[iuraicii Sitcittif 
 
 itt Dtihlin Jftr 
 
 jnoiitiitiiiQ Eitqtisli 
 
 Protestant Si-hools 
 
 in Iieiantl. 
 
 W. Pidgeon, ICsq. 
 
 the Board ; and the Uoard entered into an agreement witli tlicni, which <Ii(l niit devolve 
 upon me. Tliey forgave, in most instances, the arrears of rent, and took up the lands from 
 them, as the least which could he done, undc- the circumstances. 
 
 120859. Then, the Board became the immediate landlords of the occupying tenant? — 
 Just so. 
 
 208C0. I see that your rental has been slightly increased since ] 8J4 ; that it was in that 
 vear somewhere about £ J. 008 ; and that the present rent is £0,lU3; in what manner 
 have you increased the rental? — In some cases the rent has been increased by new 
 lettings ; but the principal increase has been in consequence of a new estate given to the 
 societj", on condition of their taking charge of a school in Sligo. 
 
 20H()1. Has not the rental of the estate been increased by your getting rid of middle- 
 men ? — It has, in most cases ; indeed I think I might s:<y in all cases, the rent has been 
 increased by this means. 
 
 2U8(i'2. But the middlemen must have had a great deal larger rent out of the estate than 
 the society had? — They generally set the lands at rack-rents, and oI>tained as large a 
 profit as they could. When the severe times came — the time of the famine, when there 
 was a pressure on agi'icultural interest — they could iKit extract these high rents from the 
 wretched tenantry; and they handed them over to tlie r>oard ; I had to deal with the 
 tenantry in this condition. 
 
 '208(i:<. When ascertaining the rent to be paid by the under-tenants, did you make any 
 reference to tlie rent previously paid to the middlemen ? — In every case that I considered 
 it reasonable to increase tJu^ rent. I did so. I made what I conscientiously believed to be 
 a fair offer to them, and which I was directed to do by the Board ; and if they did not 
 accept that. I compelled them to leave. 
 
 20804. Was the valuation made by you ? — It was ; but I reported to the society what I did. 
 
 208(io. You made offers, with their approval, to the tenantry ? — Yes. 
 
 aOBOfi. At the same time that you enlarged the farms in the way you have mentioned, 
 did you take any means to encourage agricultural education? — I did adopt measures for 
 that purjiose ; and I am happy to say, in some places, with considerable success. 
 
 20807. Will you state what course _you pursued for the purpose of improving the agri- 
 cultural knowledge of the tenantry ? — I made them enlarge their fields by throwing down 
 a number of useless small fences. I either drained at the entire expen:-e of the society, 
 or made an allowance at so much per perch for any drains they made. In the county of 
 Waterford this was done to a considerable extent ; and I think our jiroperty there will 
 bear ct)mparison with that of any other property in tlie county ; in fact, two of our tenants 
 got first and second premiums for draining, from the Agricultural Society, though they 
 have had to compete with Lord Waterford's tenantrj-. 
 
 20808. In some cases you did the entire drainage yourself? — In a few cases I did; but. 
 generally speaking, I allowed a greater portion of what the entire drains cost. 
 
 30809. Did you make any reference to outlay, in assessing the rent? — Oh, most certainly. 
 
 20870. Did you charge a higher rent where tlie entire draining was done yourself, 
 than where you only gave a contribution ?^Most certainly. The general principle I 
 went on was, where all the draining was done by mj'self, to charge five per cent, on that 
 outlay. 
 
 20871. Did you take any other means of improving the agricultural knowledge of the 
 tenantry; and if so, will you state the means which you adopted ? — I spent a good deal of 
 time in explaining to them the advantage of adopting tlie rotation system of cropping. 
 In some cases I made the tenants promise that they would pursue the rotation of crops ; 
 especially not to drag more than two wheat crops out of the land. In other places 
 I introduced green-cropping ; pnd I may say that tliere were places on the society's 
 property, some years ago, where the tenants did not know wliat mangel wurzel was. 
 
 20872. Did you during any period make an abatement in the tenants' rents? — When 
 the famine year came we made abatements, but in most cases they were only temporary 
 abatements. 
 
 2087:i. Did you ever consider the question, whether if would be moi-e judicious, instead 
 of giving an abatement in the rent, to give them something that would improve the condition 
 of the farm, and increase crops ; for instance, giving them manure ? — I very frequently 
 considered it, and adopted the principle. 
 
 20874. You gave, then, instead of money an equivalent for the money? — Yes. 
 
 20875. Did you find that principle answered well ? — I did ; I found that it not only 
 answered tlie purpose for which it was given, but also that it created 
 tow'ards the society. 
 
 20^70. Do you tliiiilv it produced a beneficial effect in any olhcr way? — I think it did. 
 in the way of example. I gave this privilege to the best conducted tenants, and it made 
 the others more anxious to attend to ni}' advice. 
 
 20M77. Did it not also furnish tliem the means of having an increased quantity of 
 manure tiie succeeding year? — Yes. 
 
 21)878. And was it not a fiermanent advantage, whereas money not laid out on the land 
 would be only temporary? — The principle I went on was not to reduce the rent, but 
 just as the pressing circumstances of tlie case required ; but we did it in some few cases. 
 The otlier system that I spoke of was in operation several years previously; and, in fact, 
 it enabled our tenantry to meet the pressure of 1849 and 1850 better than they would 
 otherwise have done. 
 
 a very good feeling
 
 EVIDENCE. 85 
 
 20879. Do you approve of the system of {giving the tenants soinelliinf:j to improve Di bi.in. 
 tlio property, cither by manure or (h'aiuage, instead of giving it in money? — I do, indeed. . \ — ■ .... 
 
 20880. You luvve stated that you spoke to the tenantry about the advantage of rotation " ;,?/;"/;'/'«/«'■'''' 
 of cropping; liave you talcen any fheans of formally instructing tiieru in ii, ? — I did inomuiimi Juii/iiJi 
 not do so; but we got little tracts 'distributed among them. ''""u'lnt^'d""'' 
 
 'j()88l. Have you any agricultural scliocds on the estati!? — No; but some years ago .,, „. , 
 1 was asked to get a school established on the property in the West of Jridaud; that ' "'"' 
 
 is, before we took up the property from the middlemen. The tenants were wretched 
 paupers, and in fact they were not thinking of education at all ; and the Board spoke to 
 me at the time of establishing a school for the tenantry; but 1 begged them to wait two 
 or three years, until I got the tenantry in a b(!tter condition than tliey were in then, for 
 they were poor, and not as peaceable as they should be. J'hey iire now perfectly peace- 
 able, and I have no doubt that tiiat school for whicli tin? J^ioard made preparations to 
 establish will now confer considerable benefit on the tenantry. 
 
 20883. Have you schools on any of your pro]iertii>s? — Do you mean schools belonging 
 to our institution, or 
 
 2088;j. I mean tenantry schools. — No, we have not; hut we conlribule in some cases to 
 scliools where the children of our tenantry derive advantage. 
 
 2088 4. On what principle are these contributions given, and how are they obtained? — 
 On the principle that the society, as landlords, are called upon to subscribe to the schools, 
 where the tenantry derive henelit. 
 
 20883. What is the mode of application? — They are the parochial schools of the 
 district. 
 
 20880. If a party on any of the estates desires to have a school cstahlislied, and desires 
 to g(,'t assistance from the Board, what is the form of application, or what is the course 
 pursued ? — The proper course. 
 
 20887. Is there any established system by which assistance can be obtained ? — I do not 
 thiidc there is. 
 
 20888. Have you considered it to be part of your duty to see whether or not the tenantry 
 sliould be provided with instruction? — I have. 
 
 20889. What steps have you taken to provide instruction for tlu- ti'nantrv? — I should 
 tell you that many of our estates are very small, and are scattered over eighteen 
 counties of Ireland. There are some places where the society had only a tew tenants, 
 and I do not think they are called upon to provide education for those tenants. 
 
 20890. Do you mean to say tliat it is not the duty of the society to see that education is 
 adequately supplied to the tenantry. Now, for instance, there is Rogerson's Cork estate, 
 the annual income of which is £90() a-year; is there any school u])on that?— Yes; there are 
 parochial schools. 
 
 20891. Are they on the society's estate? — Yes. 
 
 20892. W^here does the Dublin Rogerson's estate lie? — It lies in the city and county oi 
 Dublin 
 
 20893. The Killiuchy estates? — It lies in the county Down. 
 
 20894. It has a rental of £314 ?— Yes. 
 
 20895. Is there anything done for the purpose of instructing tlie tenantry on that estiite? 
 — There is a most excellent school on the property ; but not supported by the society ; 
 it is a parochial school. 
 
 2089r). Does the society give -any assistance ? — No. 
 
 20897 Have you ever, in connexion with that school, or any other, turned your attention 
 to having agricultural instruction given to the tenantry? — Not through the medium of 
 schools. The Killinchy tenantry are, I think, as far advanced in agriculture as any tenantry 
 iu Ireland, for thev pursue the Scotcli system there in a great degree, and I do not think 
 the Killinchy tenantry require any instruction whatever. 
 
 20898. Do you not think that persons, no matter how tar advanced they are in agrieultura] 
 instruction, could be still farther advanced? — Yes. 
 
 20899. Do you not think it would be a great advantage to the Killinchy estate to give 
 an opportunity to the tenantry of still further advancing their agricultural knowledge, by 
 increasing the means of instruction ? — They are excellent farmers there. 
 
 20900. Have they arrived at the highest pitch to which farming can lie carried? — 
 They have not. 
 
 20901. Imjn-ovement is still open to them. Dean Stewart's estate: is there any agricul- 
 tural instruction afforded on that estate ? — That estate is divided into two parts, near 
 the town of Louth, and are both small properties; and I do not think that the society is 
 called on to establish a school there solely for their tenantry, Avhen they ha\e an opjjor- 
 tunity of attending at the neighbouring schools. 
 
 20902. But would they not be called on to give assistance for the establishment of a sch.ool 
 for the benefit of their own tenantry and the tenantry of others who might co-operate 
 with them? — I think if they did, it would be favourably received by both. 
 
 20903. Do you think tlie society, as landlords, are as anxious for the establishment of a 
 school as the adjoining landlords? — Except with respect to agricultural instruction, tlie 
 childreu there are not in want of schools, because thev are in reach of the parochial 
 schools. 
 
 20904. W'hat distance do you call within reach?— One part of the estate is within half- 
 a-mile of the town of Louth.
 
 86 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Jncor/ionitc'd Socitjt^' 
 
 in Dithliiifor 
 
 pfomvting Emjitsh 
 
 Pruteatant Scliools 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 W. Pidgeon, Esq. 
 
 -About a mile. 
 
 -A mile and a-half, I 
 
 20905. That i.s the neare.st point. What is the most remote point ?- 
 20900. How far is the other portion of the estate from any school ?- 
 think, is the farthest point. 
 
 20907. I think I understand you to saj' that you consider it the duty of the landlord to 
 see that the tenantry ai'e instructed, and that a portion of that instruction should be 
 in agricultm-e ? — I do consider that it is a ])art of the duties of landlords to see that their 
 tenantry are provided -with instruction; and that it would be very desirable if you could 
 add to that agi'icultural instruction. 
 
 20908. Can you tell nie any of your estates upon which you have a tenantry school 
 imder the society? — The only instance in which we were called on lately to establish a school 
 was in the west of Ireland, where we took up the property from middlemen. That 
 school was not establislied. 
 
 20909. Is there anj- school actually established":'. — No, there is not. 
 
 20910. Neither for agricultural nor for literary instruction? — There is not. 
 
 20911. How often do you visit those estates? Do you visit them at any time except 
 when you go to collect the rents? — I do. I see some of them much more frequently than 
 others. Some of these estates are in the hands of middlemen, who have more interest 
 in them than the society have. 1 do not visit these at all. 
 
 20912. Do these middlemen hold by lease? — A lease of lives, renewable for ever. 
 
 20913. I observe that your arrear list is only to the 1st of May, 1854, and the arrears 
 due to the Society on the 1st of May, 1854, were, on the Rogerson's Cork estate, 
 £91 7s. dd. Can you explain that arrear? — The property is in the city of Cork, and 
 was the property of minors. There is a receiver under the Court, and I could not distrain 
 without permission from the Lord Chancellor. The law agent has given the formal 
 notice of his intention to take proceedings, and I believe the rent is about being paid. 
 
 20914. Your account only comes up to the 1st of May, 1854; have you any account 
 that comes up to a later period than 1854? — I am about regulating the account up to 
 May last. 
 
 20915. What might be the gross arrears on the estates? — I think you will see that 
 on most of them there is not a shilling due. 
 
 20916 The Rogerscm Cork estate, is that a valuable estate ? — It is a very valuable property. 
 
 20917. Then, as to this £93 7.v. dd., or whatever arrears there may be on it, there wiU 
 be no difficulty in having them recovered? — I believe there is perfect security for the 
 arrears on that property. The great bulk of the tenants do not owe a shilling. 
 
 20918. How do you account for the arrear of £157 on the Nicholson's estate? — It was 
 an arrear which accrued before the property came into the possession of the Society. 
 They ai"e only in possession for two or three years. 
 
 20919. This account, which bi-ings up the arrears to the 1st of May, 1854, when was 
 it audited? — It was in the beginning of this year; I think in March last. 
 
 20920. At that period there was an additional year, which did not apjiear in it ; not 
 only the arrear due on the l.st of May, 1854, but the unpaid rent of November, 1854? — 
 Yes ; but it would be brought forward in the next account. 
 
 20921. So that your system of accounts is, you do not bring forward the arrears which 
 are pavable at the time, unless they lie twelvemonths due? — Unless they be six months due. 
 
 20922. Is that the system you pui'sue? — It is. 
 
 20923. The arrear of £257 6.v. lOcl., which is retm-ned on the face of this account, 
 omits the half-year due in November, 1854? — Of course, because that was not arrear 
 wliich was due ; it was current rent. 
 
 20924. Was it not payable? — Our rents are generalh' payable one half-year within 
 another. 
 
 20925. Was it not payable, although it might not l)e the habit to collect it? — I do not 
 think you could call them arrears, because that term implies something more than current 
 rent. 
 
 2092G. Arc the rents, generally speaking, due at May and November? — Yes. 
 
 20927. Could you find out exactly when this account was audited? — I am most certain 
 it was in the inonth of March or April. 
 
 20928. If the auditing lu>)>pened in the mOnth of May, would il not then appear that the 
 balance of arrear was £257 (),v. lOd.; whereas, according to your statement, the actual 
 arrears would amount to a considerably larger sum ? — It would be in ])rocess of collection. 
 
 20929. But, notwithstanding, until it was received it would, so far as the society was 
 concerned, be an arrear? — AVe would not call current rent arrear. 
 
 20930. Do you consider it a good mode of keeping the accounts, to omit the half-year's 
 rent jjayable at the time, because it may not be then re<|nired to be paid? — It is a practice 
 pursued with ninetecn-twcntieths of the pro])erty in Ireland. 
 
 20931. Do von \htuk it would be desirable, if it could be acc()in])iished, and make tlie 
 tenants more independent, instead of allowing a half-year to hang over them, to make them 
 pay within a shorter period? — A large number of the tenantry could not do that at present; 
 and if the .society commenced the system, it would make it very unjiojjular. 
 
 20932. But would not the tenantry bo infinitely happier, and more independent, if the 
 system were adopted? — Yes; but xim would require to supply tlu'm with th;it of which the 
 tenantry are in want — capital. 
 
 20933. Do vou think there is a ])reiudice against asking the rent to be paid up? — 1 believe, 
 a very strong prejudice; but I hope we shall live to see the day when it will be done.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 87 
 
 20034. At what period exactly do you collect the rents? — Why, at i)resent, I have 
 collected a great deal of^ — nearly all — the May rents. 
 
 20935. Do you begin to collect any [)ortion of the May rent before November, or the 
 latter end of October? — Very little before the 1st of November. 
 
 2093(). When do you collect the half-year which tails due in November '? — Many of tiie 
 tenants cannot pay until tlie year becomes due. Many of the tenants I speak of were taken 
 up from middlemen, and could not pay until the year becomes due. In fact, I could not 
 have brought the tenantry through their di'ficultios the way I did, if I did not allow them the 
 half-year's rent, to expend on their land. It would crip])le them to pay a year's rent. 
 
 20937. Do you allow those tenants the full year, and the currcMit gale, supposing the rent 
 due in May next was not asked from them, would there not be owing when you collected 
 it the full year and the current gale ? — There would be. 
 
 20938. They would owe a year and a-half's rent? —Yes. 
 
 20939. Then you get the year from them when vou go to collect it? — Yes. I get a year 
 in full. 
 
 20940. Do you collect the rents between Michaelmas and May from many of the tenantry ? 
 — Yes ; but few will pay ; but I do not collect them regularly in that way. 
 
 20941. You only account once a year? — Yes. 
 
 20942. What is done with the rents you collect in the intervening time ? — I lodge them 
 in the Bank of Ireland, to the credit of the society. 
 
 20943. Immediately on receiving them? — Yes. 
 
 20944. What do your receipts amount to ? — £200 and £300 at a time. 
 
 2094.5. You do not keep a balance exceeding £200, or £300 at any time in your hands? 
 — Very often more, in case I am in the country, and do not like to come up to town. 
 2094(5. When you return to town, do you immediately lodge it? — Yes. 
 
 20947. Have the society any means of ascertaining what rents you have received between 
 one date and another? — Not until they examine my account at the end of the year. 
 
 20948. When you lodge them in the bank, to whose credit do you lodge them? — To the 
 credit of the society. When 1 lodge a ceitain amount, I get a receipt from the bank, and 
 then the bank pass-book shows the amount I lodge, and the time at which it is lodged. 
 
 20949. But do they fi'oni date to date know how much you have received, and what pro- 
 portion the lodgements bear to the receipts ? — I do not think they can. 
 
 209.50. Do the accounts before me show the arrears, rental, and receipts for the years 
 1844 and 1854?— Yes. 
 
 20951. \_Secretar!/. — There has been a general rental returned for 1844, in which 
 £4,793 IO5. is stated as the annual income; and tlie arrears were £534 19.s\, which, with the 
 half-year's rent added, makes £3,000. The rental now for the same estate is £5,103 12,s'. Id., 
 and the arrears £257 6s. lOd., to which the half-year's rent is to be added.] 
 
 20952. I do not think it is fair to designate the cm'rent half-year an arrear. 
 
 20953. \_Sc'crela)ij. — The year's income of the Ranelagh tithe-rentcharge for 1844 was 
 £669 I.9., and the arrears were £407 Is. U. In 184 1 the rental was £1,023 lO.t. 2d. and 
 the arrears £121 4s. Ad. The present rental is £1,152, and the arrears down to 4s. The 
 income from rontcharge was for 1844, £6G3 9s. \d. ; and the ai'rears to May, 1854, 
 £397 ll.v. 2,-/.] 
 
 20954. Where does the Ranelagh estate lie? — In the county of Roscommon. 
 
 20955. You spoke about the .satisfactory condition of the tenantry on the Killinchy estate, 
 and the Waterford estate; is there any other estate of which you can sav the same thing? — 
 The Roscommon estate is in a progressive st^ite. The tenantry are very poor, and then- 
 holdings small ; but you perceive they have paid up their rents. 
 
 20956. Is there any other estate in a satisfactory condition ? — I do not think there are any 
 of the estates in an unsatisfactory condition ; but, of course, some are better than others. 
 
 20957. Have you any of your rentals before you? — Several. 
 
 20958. I do not observe that on this rental, that you have stated the acreage ? — -No. 
 
 20959. How does that happen ? — That ilocs not form part of the accounts ; the maps of the 
 estates and the rental show that. 
 
 20960. Is it not usual to put on the face of the rental the quantity of land each tenant holds? 
 — I think not, where it is a mere financial statement. 
 
 20961. Have you any book to show the acreage or quantity of land that each tenant holds ? 
 — The maps of each estate show it. 
 
 20962. But have you any book specially prepared, which would show how much Land is 
 held by each tenant ? — I have drawn out a statement for Dr. Hancock, which will show the 
 quantity of laud in each separate estate. 
 
 20963 Have you it in your power to make out for this commission a book which would 
 show the quantity of land, as well as the rent? — I think the statement furnished would 
 tell all. 
 
 20964. Is it books that show it? — Not books; but the sheets accompanying the maps of 
 the estate. 
 
 20965. Are these returned to the society, with the view of showing the society how the 
 tenants occupy, and what quantitj' of land they occupy? — The society has maps, and leases 
 of each estate. 
 
 20966. In cases where there are no leases, how would the society ascertain the quantity 
 of land in the possession of each tenant? — The maps show it. 
 
 20967. Is that the only mode of ascertaining it? — Yes. 
 
 DUBUN. 
 
 JncnrporuUul Society 
 
 in Duhlin for 
 
 promottny Kn^ituih 
 
 Priitestunl SrMooh 
 
 in IreJand. 
 
 W. Pidgeon, Esq.
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 1)1 III.IS. 
 
 Jitt-orffortrirtf Stirlt^'i 
 
 ht liuUin f(>r 
 
 pr'mtvtinil Etiijiisli 
 
 Pnitcslinit SiliodU 
 
 ill Jfi-linnl. 
 
 20968. In cases where you altered the lioldiiitrs. liave new maps been made? — Theyliavc, 
 in some case:?, but not in many. 
 ' I'OllOO. How is the society in that case, to tell the quantity of land each person holds? — 
 Tliev could ascertain it by calling on me furnish them with a statement. 
 
 20970. What jjroportion of land is at the jiresent moment held by tenants occupying the 
 laud under lease? — A very large proportion; but 1 could not tell you exactly, without 
 ijoing over mv rental. 
 
 20971. Is it specified in the rental whether the person holds by lease or as tenant from 
 year to year? — In the iinaneial rental it is not. 
 
 20972. Does any rental whether vou call it financial or a summary of the gales, do it? — 
 Yes. . . . . 
 
 2097?>. Is the acreage stated? — No; but I furnish a general summary every year. 
 
 20974. Is there any general statement, or summary which will show the society whether 
 the tenant holds by lease or not, and what quantity of land he holds?. — I am not aware that 
 there is. 
 
 20975. Supj)Osing, then, after the alteration had taken place in the holdings, a ([uestion 
 arose as to whether the society received rent for some portion of land, how would they 
 ascertain whether they were recei\'ing it or not? — I think they should call on nic to tell them 
 the quantity of land. 
 
 2097(3. Then they have nothing before them, to enable them to ascertain whether or not 
 they are receiving rent for a particular portion of lanil ? — AVith regard to yearly tenants, I 
 do not think they have. 
 
 20977. Then the onlv way they could be furnished with information on this subject, would 
 be by getting information from you; and that information would not be furnished through 
 the medium of maps, or any thing done by a surveyor; it must rest entirely on your state- 
 ment? — In many of the cases in which I enlarged the farms I got them re-surveyed. 
 
 20978. Have vou returned these surveys? — No. 
 
 20979. How would the society ascertain by any information you could furnish to them 
 whether or not they were receiving rent for a certain jiortion of land? — In this way: For 
 instance, they hold a map of tiie estate I before referred to, in the west of Ireland, to which 
 they very frequently refer, and which was made many years ago ; and they can call on 
 me to account for the quantity of land held by eacli yearly tenant, and that information I 
 can furnish. 
 
 20980. You Inve already said you could furiUNli information on that subject ; but, sup- 
 posing the society desirous of ascertaining independent of you, have they means to do so? — 
 No ; but they could tell the gross quantity of land in each estate, and the amount paid by each 
 tenant. 
 
 2098L They would have to compare your statement with the map to see if they corres- 
 ponded? — No; but they acquire the information by reference to the original map. 
 
 20982. Have vou ijiven them any maps which would show the farms consolidated, and of 
 how much each farm consists? — I was never called on to do that. 
 
 2098H. Then l.'ow could the society do what you say they could do? — They could not do 
 so; but if they required it, it could be done. 
 
 20984. I am asking how it could be done at present? — They could, from the map which 
 is on the board-room table, call on me to show how a certain portion of land was divided, 
 as speciKed in my rental. 
 
 2098"). Does not the rental follow former returns, assuming them to be correct? — But thev 
 could check these returns, because they have the original survey of the estates before them; 
 and if the return is short of that, unless it is accounted for by a different survey, they could 
 c;ill me to account. 
 
 20986. Would not that depend on another return? — They could check the return. 
 
 20987. Have you altered the rents? — In almost every case. I made a reduction in the 
 rent paid to the middlemen. 
 
 209'~'8. Have the society an accouJit of the rent that was paid to tlu' middlemen by the 
 occupying tenants? — No; how could they? 
 
 2()9S9. How co\ild the society check your returns, and ascertain what quantity of land 
 each tenant holds, and for what ])ortion he pays rent, ajiart from your inlormation? — Not 
 apart from me, or from the information I couhl aH'oi'd them; but they could check my 
 retin-ns. Su]>posing that a townland contains 200 acres, which are in the hands, for instance, 
 of twenty men, eacdi of whom holds dillerent tiuantities; the aggregate, wlien totted up, 
 would make 200 acres; and, if tliry chose to tike the trouble, they could clicck the return 
 in that way. 
 
 20990. They could check by yoin- I'cturu, imt thi-y have no means of entering into 
 details?— No." 
 
 20991. Coulil not that lie done if the society got a survey made, and a rental |)repared 
 containing the acreai)le contents on the face of it?— I\ly returns have bi'cn grounded upon 
 the survey tliat has been made. I got surveys made for the society from time to tinu\ 
 
 209!t2. Why did you not return them to the society ?—l did not see the necessity of doing 
 it. Thev were from time to time before the i)oard. 
 
 20993. Do vou not think the IJoard should have l)ef)re them not only the quantity in 
 each townland, i)Ut the quantity that each tenant holds, that they may be able to see how 
 the land is disposed of, and see whether tl)ey arc receiving rent for each part? — Most 
 cei'tainlv.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 89 
 
 20991. ILis tlic society ever a^kcil you for such a return? — The Board have often load 
 returns of tliat nature l)etbre tlieiu. 
 
 -They 
 -Tliat is a different 
 
 not think a return niadi' out \>y you, showing tlie i|uantity of land each 
 he iia\s for it, and what is liis tenure, wouhl he the proper one? — I think 
 
 :iO!)9.'). Wliere are the\' now? — Tliose 1 aihide to are in my olHce, at Atiilone. 
 
 20!)i)(;. Have you any Of them in I)ui)Hn? — I tliink I have". 
 
 'JO'.VM. Wiu'u tliese returns are, produced, will you state what they will show 
 will show the (|uantit\' of ground held hy each yearly tenant, ami the rent he jiays 
 
 20!I1)S. Will they show the quantity of land hehl hy each lessee 
 i|Uestion; ln'cause that is recorded in the hooks of the si)ciety. 
 
 I'Oij;)!). J)o you 
 tenant holds, what 
 it would. 
 
 :J1()0U. Do you not thiid< it woukl he much more safe and l)usi)iess-like? — Yes; and if I 
 were called on hy tlu^ soc-iety to make such a return, I would he iilad to do .so. I am 
 niakiuL;- out one for your Commission at present. 
 
 :ilOOl. Have you got the Ordnance maps of the estates? — Of some of them I have. 
 
 21002. Of what estates have you i^ot the Ordnance ma]is? — I have got the Ordnance 
 map of the llanelanh estate. 
 
 2100;>. Have you ever been directed to ascertain, hy reference to these Ordnance maps, 
 whether the (juantity of lan<l estimated by you to bi- in the possession of each tenant is 
 the same as that returned in the Ordnance ma))S? — I would not de])end on the Ordnance 
 maps. 
 
 21001. Do you not thiid'C that if the Ordnance survey I'eturns a particular townland to 
 contain a certain number of acres, yon might depend upon that statement? — Yes. 
 
 21005. Do you not think if the total of your survey differed materially from that, that it 
 would be desirable to check yonr survey? — Most certainly. 
 
 210(){). Have you e\er tested your returns by the Ordnance map in that way? — I did; but 
 sometimes there is a slight variation. 
 
 21007. To -what extent? — To a very trifling extent. 
 
 21008. What do you mean by very trifling? — I mean not very much. I have not, in 
 n\any cases, found a discrej)ancy. 
 
 21009. Do you state the Ordriance siu'vey in your books? — No, because the gross survey 
 would not he sufficient. 
 
 21010. Would it not be ajiplicable to the entire townland you possess and the quantity of 
 land stated ?— Yes. 
 
 21011. Have you any entries in your books tested by comparison with the Ordnance 
 survey? — I do not think I have formally set it forth in my books. 
 
 21012. What maps do you depend upon? — Maps made by surveyors at the time. 
 2101.'5. Are they late or recent maps? — We have maps from the year 1784 down to last 
 
 year. 
 
 21014. Have you any occasion to rely on the old maps? — Very fre([ucntly. 
 
 21015. Are you not aware that there is a difference between the ({uantities stated in the 
 old ma])s and those ascertained by the modern maps ? — They do differ. 
 
 2101 G. And would not the society be the loser if they arranged their charge by the old 
 maps ? — Yes ; but this difference is easily accounted for by a different survey. The 
 difference between the old maps and the new ones is not more than two or three acres in a 
 townland. 
 
 21017. But sometimes a great deal more? — Yes. 
 
 21018. How is the society to know, if they mark out the quantities by the old maps, that 
 they are getting rent ffn' the whole of these lands? — They should have to depend on the 
 old sin-vey in the case you suppose ; and therefore a recent survey would be indispensable, 
 and they have it. 
 
 21019. Have the estates been recently surveyed when it was found necessary? — Yes; 
 part of the Ranelagh estate and Dean Stewart's estate have been surveyed. Thei'e are parts 
 of the Ranelagh estate which they do not deem necessary to get surveyed, because there 
 are leases for lives renewable for ever against them; but in the case of yearly tenancies and 
 old leases, they have got surveys made. 
 
 Rev. Jo/i// William Stubbs, F.T.C.D., further examined. 
 
 21020. Dr. Andrewn. — Have you had any acquaintance with the management of estates 
 yourself? — I have a small property of my own, which 1 am in the habit of managing by 
 means of an agent; and that is the oidv wav I am acquainted with the management of 
 estates. 
 
 21021. But you have not acted as agent yourself ?-- Never. 1 collected some rent for 
 friends, hut not as agent. 
 
 21022. Now, in auditing the agent's accounts, have you had before you the acreage of 
 each estate ? — 1 think not. 
 
 2102.". Or the quantity of land in possession of each tenant before you? — I think nothing 
 more than the mere name of the tenant, and the amount of rent to which he is liable. 
 
 21024. And you had no means of ascertaining, from the materials before you, Avhether a 
 fair portion of the land is returned as ])aving rent? — We have had the means of ascerfciining 
 every year, by comj)aring the items of the rental with the items of the rental as furnished 
 previously. 
 
 21025. Was not that merely comparing the amount returned one year witli the amount 
 Vol. n. ' ' N 
 
 UiriLiN. 
 
 Incor/imalcd Socielif 
 In Diihlin for 
 
 jniimntiiiif timjUfilt 
 
 /'roff^tttiil SrItiutU 
 
 ill Jri'Jfind. 
 
 W 
 
 Ecv. .J. W. Stubbs.
 
 90 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 lncvrj)oiated Society 
 
 in DuhliiiJ'or 
 
 piomoliny Euylish 
 
 Protestant Schools 
 
 in Ire/and. 
 
 Rev. J. W. Stubbs. 
 
 returned in another year ? But supposing a change of rent lias taken jilacc, and a new valua- 
 tion, what means have you of ascertaining what quantity the tenant is in possession of? — If a 
 change in the rent has taken place, or if we ha\e determined on a new tenant to be ajipointed 
 at a different rent, that is always stated by iSIr. Pidgeon. 
 
 21026. But is tlie ([uantity of land stated? — Not that I remember. 
 
 21027 In other words, no account is kept against land? — No. 
 
 21028. Then it is possible, from that state of facts, that land might be omitted from the 
 rental ? — It could not be omitted from year to year. I take it, that when Mr. Pidgeon was 
 appointed agent to the society, there was a proper retui'n made of the rent payable by the 
 different farms. The committee of accoiuit has each year since audited the accounts, and 
 compared them with those of the preceding year ; so that the matter is a sort of tradition 
 handed down from one year to another. 
 
 21029. But you had no means of checldng the acreage, or taking an account as 
 against land : you took it for granted that all things were right when you were appointed, 
 and you endeavoured to keep them so since? — That is quite true; but I may also state, 
 Mr. Pidgeon is generally present, and we ask him several questions with regard to certain 
 townlands and tenancies, and as to the \ah\Q of the acreage ; we go through, in fact, each 
 item separately in our auditing the accounts. It is a mere verbal statement, but we do not 
 sec any document. 
 
 21030. Have you any means of checking his statement, supposing he made a mistake? — 
 I do not think he could have made a misfaxke, except for the first year, because his accounts 
 each year are compared with the previous year. 
 
 21031. Ai-e you aware that on some of your estates small holdings were given up and 
 added to others? — I believe so. 
 
 21032. When that was done, had you any means of ascertaining the arrangements regarding 
 that transaction ? — I think I was not auditor at the time. 
 
 21033. Then you cannot tell me what was done bj' your predecessors in respect of that 
 transaction ? — No. 
 
 21034. You assumed that things were right when you came into office, and endeavoured 
 to keep them so, as fu- as you are concerned? — I may state, too, that when there is a letting to 
 be made the agent brings it before the society. He mentions the different offers that have 
 been made, and we direct him to let to the best tenant at such and such a rent ; and if we 
 ^vish, we can refer to the books and see the rent which had been paid for the holding. 
 
 21035. But you have no retui-n that gives the quantity of land that is contained in that 
 holding? — I have seen maps of some of the holdings, but I do not know that we have maps 
 of them all. 
 
 2103(). Was there any summary or rental made out, for the purpose of showing you how 
 the different holdings were distributed ? — There was not ; and I thiidc it would be a great 
 advantage if such a thing was done ; but I may state we are introducing improvements, both 
 in keeping the accounts and managing the estate, every year; and before another year goes 
 over, we may expect to have all our improvements carried out. 
 
 21037. Are you not aware that proper agents' accounts state the acreage, and the quantity 
 of land held by each tenant? — My own private agent's accounts do not state it ; all I find is 
 the sum of money paid, and the sum due. 
 
 21038. Is not there a difference between the agent of a private gentleman, who generally 
 knows how his estates are circumstanced, and a person wlu) represents a society which does 
 not know these circumstances, and who can only know them liy information supplied by 
 others ? — I grant you that there is a difference. 
 
 21039. J\Ir. S/f'/)/ic'!/K. — Mr. Stubbs, without admitting that the accounts of the Commis- 
 sioners of Education are perfect, will you be so kind as to turn to j)age 194, which contiiins 
 theu' account with the baidv? — I lune it. 
 
 21010. Does not that account show the different kinds of stock in the funds, and the 
 dividends due on each trust? — I think the manner in which this account is kept is a very 
 great ini])rovement on our system. I shall certainly cause it to be adopted. 
 
 21041. Does it not show the different kinds of stock in the funds, and the di\-i(lends due 
 on each trust? — Yes. 
 
 21042. Then on the credit side it shows the dividends paid, with the deductions? — 
 E.xactly. 
 
 2104.'). Do you not consider that such a .system of keeping the account is very proper and 
 business-like ? — I think it highlj- pi'oper. 
 
 21044. Will you be so kind as to refer to page 191. Does not that account set forth each 
 school, with the balance for or against it? — Yes. 
 
 21045. And at the foot of that account, I think you will find set forth the sundry balances 
 dne by each agent of the societ}', and the final balance to the credit of the society? — Yes. 
 
 2104(). Does not that appear to be a regular lialance-sheet? — Yes, so far as I can judge; 
 but I do not know whether I am right or wrong. The funds entrusted to the Commissioner.s 
 of Education are funds for certain schools. I (fo not think they have general funds, or are 
 obliged to appropriate the funds belonging to one school to another. 
 
 21047. But you have a variety of trust funds. Do you not consider that that balance-sheet 
 is a business-like and pro[)er account to lie kejit? — I do. 
 
 21048. Have you such an account? — Not as regards each school ; but we have an account 
 of the expenditure on each school. 
 
 21049. But you have no account showing the balance due to each school. I hand you 
 another book belonging to tlie Clare-street Board — the agent's account. If yo\i turn to jiage
 
 EVIDENCE. 91 
 
 180 you will find, I think, an account of the agent of tlie Dungannon Royal Scliool estate Dublin. 
 
 Does not that account show the balance due by the agent on his last account, and also the 
 
 rents received by him ?— Certainly. ' Incm,.;raie<l Suckiy 
 
 21050. Turn to page seven of that account; I think you will tliore find a detailed account prtimoUny'kniiiish 
 of the several payments made by the agent; does it not also show the lodgments made ])\ Protestant SrhooU 
 the agent in the Bank of Ireland ?— Yes. ' »" Ireland. 
 
 21051. And do you not also find the Imlance due by the agents at the termination of the ^*-'^- "^^ ^- Stubbs. 
 year? — Yes. 
 
 21052. Do you not think such a system of keeping the books a regular system? — I think 
 it is; and mostly all our agents' accounts are kei)t exactly the same way. 
 
 21058. You say your accounts are kept in the same way. Tui-n to the Ranelagli 
 estate: Mr. Pidgeon gives an account of the rent, and arrears of rent, received for tlie year 
 ending the 1st of May, 1854, with deductions for poor rate. Then on the opposite side, he 
 says, balance due by agent on foot of last account, £16 ll.v. Zd. ; and then at the end you will 
 see the balance due by the agent at the foot of this account, £36, that is Mr. Pidgeon's 
 account with the society. There is no account for the society? — Nothing, except that. 
 
 21054. You cannot tell until Mr. Pidgeon furnishes his account, the state of the account 
 between the society and Mr. Pidgeon? — Certainly not. 
 
 21055. You cannot tell, for instance, for nine months, the state of tlie accounts between 
 you and j\lr. Pidgeon? — Except by the bank-book. 
 
 21056. You have nothing posted from Mr. Pidgeon's account, nor from the bank-book into 
 Mr. Pidgeon's account? — We can tell at anytime what Mr. Pidgeon has paid into the Bank 
 of Ireland. 
 
 21057. Yes; but you cannot tell what he has received? — Not tintil the time he furnishes 
 his accounts. 
 
 21058. You have no check on the bank clerk? — No. 
 
 21059. After those admissions, do you still give me the same answer, that your accounts 
 are kept exactly in the same way as the accounts of the Clare-street Board ? — I first con- 
 sidered the account was written up to the end of the year, and that in fact the accounts Mr. 
 Pidgeon furnishes to the society were entered in the books. I now admit I was wroncr; 
 they are only entered from time to time. 
 
 21060. If I collect your evidence aright, Mr. Stubbs, it is this— (1) that the accounts of the 
 
 society have not been kept in such a form as to secure compliance with the charter of Chaides , 
 
 II. ? — I just wish to make an observation with regard to that. No money can be sold out of the 
 
 funds, except by an order, not of the Committee of Fifteen, but of a general Board, which meets 
 
 every quarter ; and they affix their seal to a power of attorney, authorizing the sale to be 
 
 made : such a rule is made, of course by the vote of the majority. I believe a sum of money 
 
 has been for years accumulating as part of an excess of income over expenditure, and 
 
 any moneys whicli have been sold out of the Government funds have not been part of the 
 
 original de^-ises, but part of the savings which were funded by the society. 
 
 21061. I take it as a fact, that you have kept no account, so as to distinguish income from 
 capital ': — The question does not arise, so far as my experience goes, except in case of the 
 Ranelagli school. 
 
 21062. Have you kept an account, showing how much arises from income, and liow much 
 arises from original grants on bequests ? — No. 
 
 21063. Then how could you distinguish income fi'om capital? — I have no means of 
 distinguishing it, except hearing from persons of more experience in the management of the 
 society than I have. 
 
 21064. Have you an account distinguishing the one fi-om the other? — None. 
 
 21065. Then, in point of flict, you have not kept an account in compliance with the tenns 
 of the charter of Charles II. ? — There is no formal account. 
 
 21066. (2) No bank account has been kept? — No account different from the ordinary 
 bank pass-book. 
 
 21067. (3) No account has been kept with the agent?^ — There is no account with the 
 agent. 
 
 21068. If I understand correctly, your agent keeps an account for you, but you keep no 
 account with the agent? — The usual account is kejit. 
 
 21069. Mr. Pidgeon keeps an account with aou, but you keep no account with Mr. 
 Pidgeon?— No. 
 
 21070. (4) Tliere is no account balanced? — There is a general balance sheet. 
 
 21071. That is not a balance, inasmuch as it is not the result of a statement of income and 
 expenditure? — It was intended to be so. 
 
 21072. It is neither an account of income, nor of expenditure, nor is it a balance sheet? — 
 It is not technically so. 
 
 21073. (5) And that during the five years you have been a member of the committee of 
 accounts, the funded property of the society has not been audited, and no separate account 
 of the funded projierty has been kept, though it amounts to upwards of £100,000? — I never 
 audited the cnjiital account, nor has the separate account you speak of been kept. 
 
 21074. I have no further observations to make, or questions to put to you ; but I feel bound 
 to state, that your evidence has been given in a very straightforward manner, and that, as 
 a member of the committee of account, you have taken pains to ascertain that the accounts 
 of the society have been correctly kept, according to the very imperfect system hitherto in 
 use. 
 
 Vol. II. N 2
 
 92 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMJIJSSION. 
 
 JJtULlX. 
 
 Jiicvijiiiiulcil Sociclii 
 
 in Uiihlin for 
 
 pt'viiititinii t^iniUsli 
 
 Protestant Sclimth 
 
 in Irelaiitl. 
 
 W. PillsCOll. Esq. 
 
 Wil/iam Pidf/eon, Esq., furtlier exaniinoil. 
 
 21075. My. S/rj,/ie//s. — AVhen did you send jour accounts to the (,"oniniissioners? I 
 
 brought some yesterday, and some to-day. 
 
 21076. As soon as the Commissioners have an opjiortunity ofexamiiiino- them, vou will 
 be exaniined in respect of them, and ofwb.irh examination vou .-hall receive iic.tico. Do 
 you reside in Dublin? — I reside lu Dublin, but I am fnH|ueii'tlv imr of town. I -hail hold 
 myself in readiness. 
 
 21077. Kev. Dr. Grui-rs — The Commissioners propose to institute an inquiry into the 
 affinrs and management of the Board of Commissioner.s of Education in L-eland,''connnon]y 
 called the Clare-street Board, to-morrow morning, at eleven o'clock. 
 
 Toi- further evidence as to Incoi'porated Society, see page 1 1 7.]
 
 EVIDENCE. !^3 
 
 Dublin, Dkcemi'-kr 20, 1855. dviuas. 
 
 P resell I : — The Maikjuess ^A' KirjiAUn, <'liairmiui ; Rev. Dr. Guavks, Dr. Andkkvvs, Th: (.'.nmmiyiiimcy 
 Mr. Stei'hknk, ami Di'. Hancock, Secretary. , '"''■■•'"''',]'''"" '" , 
 
 The Commissioners OF Education IN Ireland, Clake-street, Dublin. ,„ ^ '"''■'• 
 
 W. C. ICylp. i.i..n. 
 
 William Colter Kyle, ll.d., sworn and cxaniined. 
 
 :^1078. Cliainiian. — What office do you liokl under the Commissioners of Education? — 
 I am secretiiry to the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, whicii is their corporate 
 name. 
 
 :^l()7iK AVhcn were you ajjiioiiitedy — In Fel)ruary, 1835. 
 
 rilO.SO. Wouhi you state, generallj', the duties of your office? — The duties of my office, 
 my ]jord, are to attend to all correspondence — receive the letters, have them j)roperly entered 
 and attended to; to submit them to the Commissioners, take their directions on them, com- 
 municate with the different jiarties concerned, keep the minutes of the Board, and attend to 
 the accounts; in tact, the yeiieral duties of a secretiiry to any public body. 
 
 21()(Sl. When yon say that one of your duties is to attend to the accounts, do you mean 
 that money passes through your hands? — No, my Lord. I had better state the course 
 that is ]nirsued. The money, which is tlie property of the Commissioners, arising from 
 rents or from the interest of money in the funds, is lodged by the agents directly in the 
 Bank of Ireland to the credit of the Commissioners. The Commissioners then pay all demands 
 u))on them, for wliatever object it maybe necessary, by separate and distinct clie<|ues. For 
 that ])urpose the cheques are entrusted to my care, as the officer of the Board ; and I send 
 them to the different parties entitled to them, receive their receipts, and produce them to 
 the Board. 
 
 21082. Is there any person appointed as treasurer to the Commissioners? — Virtually tlie 
 Bank of Ireland is their treasurer, but there is no srtch officer. The Commissioners them- 
 selves always see that the drafts correspond with the receijits produced to them ; the 
 bank-bi}ok is on the table, and the books in which the accounts are kept. 
 
 2108;5. With what assistance are you provided to enable you to perform the duties of 
 your office?. — I have an annual allowance for the necessary expenses of the office of £150, 
 un<l from that I su])ply the office, clerk, and stationery. 
 
 21084. What is the total amount of the expenses of management of the Board of Ednca- 
 cation? — £600 a-year is the total expense, with the exception of a trifling annual expendi- 
 ture that may be necessary for postage, which, j)erha])s, is £3 or £4 a-year. jNIv salary is 
 £450, and the allowance for the office is £150, making £600 a-year. 
 
 21085. Are those small charges called by any name in the accounts of the Commissioners? 
 — They are memorialed for, and paid by Government, and not by the Commissioners. 
 
 21086. They are charges on the Consolidated Fund? — They are charges on the Consoli- 
 dated Fund. Perhaps I should state there is a monthly account sent over bv me to the 
 Commissioners for Auditing Public Accounts, pursuant to an order passed some time ago, of 
 these trifling matters. There is a particidar form j)repared In" the Connnissioners for the 
 purpose. 
 
 21087. The whole of that £600 is drawn from the Consolidated Fund?— It is. The Act 
 of Parliament points out the mode. 
 
 21088. Under wdiat Act of Parliament is that done? — The Board is constituted under 
 the 53rd of Geo. III., chap. 107; and was subse(iuently regulated liv the ord of Geo. IV., 
 cha]i. 7!l, and also by the 1st of William IV., chap. 66. " 
 
 21089. Are the law agents paid by salary ? — No ; they ai'e paidy);v/ n- nald. They send in 
 their bills of costs for whatever work they have done, and they are paid accordingly. 
 
 21090. What was the amount of their costs in the j'ear 1854? — The solicitors in Dublin, 
 
 who are the regular solicitors of the Board, have not been paid any costs for several years 
 
 they have not furnished any bills of costs for several yeai's. You are aware it apjieared 
 from a Parliamentary paper some time ago, that the funds of the Commissioners were not 
 very flourishing; and they did not furnish bills of costs since then. There have lieen some 
 trifling costs incurred by agents in the country, which are placed in the agents' accounts, 
 and ])aid, but they can scarcely be called law costs. 
 
 21091. Is the attendance of the law agent required at each meeting of the Board of Com- 
 missioners? — He is summoned always, and almost invariably attends. There have been 
 cases in which, having been out of town, he did not attend; but his jiractice is always to 
 attend. 
 
 21092. ILnv often does the Board meet? — It has no fixed time of meeting. It used 
 formerly, when I could procure a lietter attendance of the Commissioners, to meet about 
 once a fortnight; latterly I can procure the attendance of the Commissioners about once 
 a month u]ion an average. 
 
 21093. Are the law agents paid for their attendance at the meetings of the Board ?— Tlu^y 
 are regularly charged for in their bills of costs. 
 
 21094. Are the lands under the control of the Board placed under the direction of one 
 agent, or more than one? — There are local agents, sepai'ate and distinct. 
 
 21095. How many? — The Raphoe agent is Mr. Johnson; the Dungannon agent, Mr.
 
 94 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Commissioiers 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C. Kyle, ll.d. 
 
 Wann ; tlie Armagh agent, Mr. Miller ; the Carysfort agents, Messrs. Guinness and Mahon ; 
 the Banagher agent, Mr. Owen ; the Enniskillen agent, Mr. Benison ; and the Cavan agent, 
 Mr. Benison. There are other schools provided with endowments, which are placed under 
 the control of the Commissioners by the provisions of the Act of Parliament, and they also 
 have their agents ; but I have enumerated all the Royal schools and their agents. 
 
 2109G. Are these agents paid a salary or a per centage? — A per centage on the actual 
 receipts. 
 
 21097. Does the Board employ an architect? — It did formerly, but it has not at present 
 any architect. They have not undertaken any works that required an architect latterly ; 
 the chief works are repairs. 
 
 21098. Does the Board employ any permanent inspectors of then' schools? — They have 
 no funds for that purpose. 
 
 21099. Rev. Dr. Grave.f. — What does the Act of 1813 state to be the reason for 
 appointing the Commissioners of Education in Ireland ? — The preamble of the Act recites: — 
 " Whereas manv of the abuses in schools on public and private foundations in Ireland, and 
 tlie misapplication of their several funds and revenues, have proceeded fi'om the delays, 
 difficulties, and expenses attending the iisual way of proceeding in such cases, by bill or infor- 
 mation in the courts of equity ; and whereas it is necessary, for the better regulation of the 
 several endowed schools in Ireland, and for the more efficient control of the conduct of the 
 masters and other pei'sons concerned in the management and direction thereof, that Com- 
 missioners should be constituted and appointed, for the purpose of visiting, regulating, and 
 superintending the management and due application of the funds and revenues of the said 
 schools, as well those of private foundation as those which have been founded and endowed 
 by the Crown or established and confirmed by the authority of Parliament, or for the main- 
 tenance and sujjport of which any sum or sums of money have been at any time granted by 
 Parliament, or been de^•ised or bequeathed bv private persons, or in any manner granted or 
 appro]iriated," &c., &c. 
 
 21100. What class of endowed schools are exempted fi'om the jurisdiction of the Clai'e- 
 street Board by that Act?. — The second section says: — " ProA-ided always, and be it enacted, 
 that none of the schools on the foundation of the late Erasmus Smith, Esq., nor the Pro- 
 testant charter schools, nor anv pai'ochial schools established under an Act made in the 
 twenty-eighth year of King Homy VIII., intituled an Act for the English Order, Habite, 
 and Language, nor anv establishment for the ]mrposes of education, now under the control 
 of visitors appointed by Act of Parliament or Charter, shall be deemed, and considered 
 subject to the jurisdiction of the said Commissioners under this Act." There is also another 
 
 • class of schools exempted by the 15th section, the concluding part of which says : — " Except, 
 also, all schools of jjrivate foundation for the education of persons professing any religion, or 
 religious, persuasion, other than that i>f the united Chiu'ch of England and Ireland." 
 
 21101. Does not the jurisdiction of the Commissioners extend to all other endowed 
 schools, whether of private foundation, or maintained and supported by money granted by 
 Parliament prcAaous to the year 1813, or devised or bequeathed by private persons, or in 
 any manner granted or ajipropriated ? — It would appear, that with tj^e exception of the 
 schools mentioned in the Act, the power of the Board so extends ; but that is a question 
 of law, upon which, being upon my oath, I do not like to give an opinion. 
 
 21102. Would you state, Dr. Kvle, what class of schools are at present actually visited 
 or managed by the Board of Connnissioners ? — I read from a return which was made to the 
 order of the House of Commons 
 
 21103. Mr. Stephens. — In what year was that return made? — It bears date March, 1854. 
 The Royal schools, the diocesan schools, and certain schools of private endowment, of which I 
 have a list in mv hand, and which has over and over again been returned to the House of 
 Commons. 
 
 21101. Rev. Dr. (!r/in'.s-. — Ai'e there two classes of schools — Royal schools and diocesan 
 schools — and a number of separate schools of private foundation? — Yes; and I should state 
 that the Act of Parliament refers distinctly to one or two schools of private endowment. 
 If you look to the 4th section of 53rd George III., you will find a .special provision with 
 reference to the Preston charity. 
 
 21105. Mr. Stepfienx. — How many Royal .schools arc thei'e? — There are seven Royal 
 schools, and two tenantrv schools. 
 
 2110G. At Armagh and Ra].hoe?— Yes. 
 
 21107. How many diocesan schools are there? — Fourteen; but some of these are what 
 are called district diocesan schools, which have been united jiursnant to tiie ]>owcrs of the 
 Ist William IV., cap. 56. 
 
 21108. How many schools of private fon)idation are there? — Twenty-three. 
 
 21109 Cltainnan. — What is the annual value of the estates attacheil to the Royal schools, as 
 a class? — Perhaps the best answer I could give to that ([uestion would be to hand in the rentals. 
 
 211 10. [jSrrn-//iri/. — Dr. Kyle made a return of each school. i)iit did not give a summary 
 of the whole.] 
 
 21111. I can make it mit ; but if I had that return I could point out at once the infor- 
 mation required. I hold in my hand a return from the different schools. There are 
 half-yearly returns made to the Connnissioners, which returns show the names and salaries 
 of the masters, their vacations, iS:i\ 
 
 2] ]\ 2. Mr. S/rp/ir/is. — fiive his lordshi]! the dates? — One of these returns is made in 
 June, 1855. 
 
 21113. From what period to what j)criod? — For the preceding six months.
 
 EVIDENCE. 95 
 
 21114. From wli;it period? — It does not state on tlio fiice of it wliat jicrioil, Imt is a Dublin. 
 
 return of the actual condition of tlie school at the date of the return. Perhaps I do nut 77,^ Commissioners 
 make myself understood. Thei'e is a skeleton return sent out to eacii master. of Education in 
 
 2nif). When?— Each half-year. Formerly it was sent aimually; hut I asked permission, Mand,^Clare.street, 
 some time ago, to send them out halt-yearly, and 1 was permitted to do so; and the next _ „^^ j^ ^ 
 return will be sent out the 1st of January. 
 
 21116. Chuirinuii. — Have you furnished the Commissioners with copies of the former 
 returns? — I rather think I did. Here are original returns from the masters to the latest 
 ilate they have been furnished to the Counnissioners. 
 
 21117. What are tiie dates? — Tlu'se are returns fron: the different schools under the con- 
 trol of the Board, made pursuant to the older of the Board, setting forth the particulars 
 connected with 
 
 21118. At what date? — The 6tli of June, 1855. Some of them are the 5th of June. 
 2111!). Mr. Stephens. — What ilo these returns set forth? — They set forth the names and 
 
 salaries of the masters, the vacations allowed, the names of the patrons, and the date of the 
 apjiointment of the masters ; the names and salaries of the assistants, and l)y whom 
 ap])ointed, and by whom paid. They set forth as the coui'se of instruction, the ancient 
 languages, the modern languages, science, and general literature. Then the school hours ; 
 the attendance of the master in the school ; the duty performed by the head-master ; the 
 hours of attendance of the assistants in the school; the number of pupils, distinguishing 
 boarders from day scholars and free. 
 
 21120. Is it the number on a particular day? — The nundjer at the date of the 
 return, the charge for boarders, and the charge for day scholars ; and there is a column 
 for general observations; and these returns are sent to the masters, and transmitted to 
 the Board. 
 
 21121. Is it the number of children in the school at the date of the return for the 
 last six months ? — The return does not ask the number for any particular time ; but, I 
 presume, the meaning of the return is, that it is a retiu'n of the nund)er at the time the 
 return is made. 
 
 21122. Is it the number of scholars on the roll ? — I presume so. The master is I'esponsible 
 for and signs the retiu-n. These are the original returns, which I will hand in, if the Com- 
 missioners wish them. 
 
 21123. Chairman. — The Counnissioners would wish to have to-morrow morning a return 
 (jf the number of Royal schools, the amount of income, distinguisliing that which arises 
 from land ;ind from personal property, and the number of pupils attemling tlie^e schools at 
 the latest date? — I cannot give later information as to the number of jiupils than that now 
 before your Lordship, because it is the last return that has been called for. 
 
 21124. We should like to have the total number attending the Royal schools as well as 
 the diocesan schools, and also those of private foundation? — The information asked for can 
 be given this moment by reference to the sheet. 
 
 21125. Perhaps you would have this return by to-morrow morning? — Very well. 
 
 21126. Rev. Dr. Graves. — -Will you be so good as to state what is the constitution of the 
 Board to which the manageuient of the schools and the estates is committed ? — Do you 
 mean the legal constitution — how they are appointed, or the working of the Board? 
 
 21127. Of what persons does it consist? — The Act of Parliament prescribes, that it shall 
 consist of " The Lord Primate of all Ireland, the Lord High Chancellor of Ireland, the 
 Lonl Archbishop of Dublin, the Lord Archbishop of Tuam, all now and hereaftei', for 
 the time Ijeing, and the respective coadjutors of the said primate and archbishops, now or 
 hereafter, for the time being; the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of King's Bench in 
 Ireland, the Provost of Trinity College, Dubhn, now and hereafter, for the time being; and 
 also four of the Bishops of Ireland, to he appointed from time to time by the Lord 
 Lieutenant, or other Chief Governor or Governors, of Ireland, for the time being 
 (one bishop for each proxince in Ireland) ; together with foui' other proper and discreet 
 persons, whom the Lord Lieutenant, or other Chief Governor or Governors for the time 
 shall think fit to appohit to be Commissioners under this Act ; such four Bishops, and 
 four other persons, so appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, or other Chief Governor or 
 Governors of Ireland, for the time being, to be renewable at liis or tlieu- pleasm'e, shall be 
 a corporation, and shall have perpetual succession, and a common seal, and shall be called 
 the Commissioners of Education in Ireland." That is the first Act; but the subsequent 
 Act of George IV. says — " Whereas, it is expedient that certain other persons should be 
 appointed to be Commissioners, together with the Commissioners named in the said Act, 
 in order that the said Corporation may be further increased, and the purjioses thereof more 
 effectually carried into execution: Be it therefore enacted, &c., &c., that the Archbishop 
 of Cashel, and his Coadjutor, now and hereafter for the time being; Chief Secretary of 
 the Lord Lieutenant, or other Chief Governor or Governors of Ireland, now and hereiifter 
 for the time lieing ; and the member chosen to serve in Parliament for the said Trinity 
 College of Dublin, now and hereafter for the time being, shall be, and are hereby 
 apijointed and shall be deemed and taken to be, respectively, Counnissioners of the said 
 Corjioration." The next section states, that the Lord Lieutenant, for the time being, may 
 appoint " two other proper and discreet persons, who shall be usually resident in the city of 
 Dublin, to be Commissioners of Education in Ireland."' That is the entire legal constitution 
 of the Board. 
 
 21128. Has not some doubt ai'isen as to the exact number of persons now actually consti- 
 .tuting the Board, in consequence of the alteration which has been made in the representa-
 
 9(3 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Di'BLiN. tiiiii ot ilie University of Duliliii? — Tliere lius. The Act of Pari iaiiieiit states, that tlie 
 
 juenil)er of tlie university, for the time beiiiir, sh;ill be a Coinnussioiier. There are two 
 
 The CywmhsioNers j^^^^^.^ .j|^,| .^ _^^ difficuitv exists as to wl'ich, or whetlier botli, arc members. A leual 
 
 <)/ t.<tiiralll>>l til . . ~ , 1 " 1 • II ■ 1 '111 1 
 
 Jri-linid. Clare -'^tieei. opiniou was tuKeu Oil tile snl)ject, and the consequence is that iieitlier liave been .sumiiionecl. 
 DM;,i. I ^])oke to some members of Parliament, who said they would get the matter remedied. 
 
 W. C. K\le. i.L.p. However, it was not done. 
 
 ^112il. The preat majority of tlie Board are cx-ojficiu members — are there any of tlio 
 members of the Board paid? — None. 
 
 21130. ]\Iust not an e.v-nfficKi member be present, in order to render the proceedings of 
 tlie Boar.l valid ?_Yes. 
 
 21131. Does not a difficulty occasionally arise in consequence of this provision? — Latterly, 
 verv fi'eijuently ; iormerly, it was not so much so. 
 
 21132. What has been, generally speaking, the attendance of the Commissioners — has it 
 , been regular, or irregular? — When I first became connected with the Board, about twenty 
 
 years ago, it was very regular, and it continued regular for a length of time; but latterly, 
 for the last few years, it has been very difficult to procure the attendance (jf tlie Commissioners. 
 Very frequentiv I have to make personal solicitations to imluce members to come. 
 
 21133. What is the quorum necessaiy for the transaction of business? — Three. 
 
 21134. And has the number in attendance been reduced to the actual minimum of 
 three? — Very frequently latterly. 
 
 21135. Has it ever been necessary to transact business in an imperfect manner, by means 
 of two Commissioners, the ratification of it being left to a third? — It has occurred. 
 
 21130. As, for instance, in the case of the signing of drafts ? — Yes, I was always extremely 
 anxious, and the Board were extremely anxious, that all persons who are paid salaries by 
 them, should be jiaid with the utmost punctuality and regulai'ity; and sometimes ii has so 
 happened that a third Commissioner did not attend at the time when it was necessary to 
 draw the drafts for those parties, and a third Commissioner has subsequently signed them. 
 
 21137. Could you state what you think to be the average attendance of the Commissioners 
 — -the average number present? — Taking the 3'ear round, latterly, I would say the attendance 
 has been three or four. 
 
 2113.S. What is the total number of Commissioners now constituting the Board? — There 
 are sixteen, independent of the vexata (jiwstio, as to the member for tlie University. 
 
 2113!!. With that exception, is the mtmber complete? — The number is complete. 
 
 21140. There are a certain number of jilaces to lie filled by members, to be appointed by 
 the Lord Lieutenant, and these places are now all filled? — The Board is all filled, with the 
 exception of that question of the University members, which was never settled. I .should 
 mention, whenever a vacancy occurs, which is to be filled by an appointee of the Government, 
 it is my duty to notify that vacancy to the Lord Lieutenant, or the Chief Secretary for the 
 time, and then his Excellency appoints. 
 
 21141. Are returns of the attendance of the Commissioners regularly laid before Parliament? 
 — No ; they are only laid befijre Parliament when they are moved for. All the Act of 
 l^irliament reouires is an annual report, the nature of v.hich annual report is defined by 
 the Act of Parliament. 
 
 21142. Up to what period has the attendance of the Commissioners been laid before 
 Parliament? — I think the latest return was made in 1850, but I cannot be quite sure, I am 
 so frequently asked for these returns. I hold in my hand a copy of a Parliamentary return 
 which was made then. It was for two years, and the heading of the return is this — ''Return 
 of all meetings which have been held by the Commissioners of Education in L'eland, from 
 the 1st of January, 184<S, to the 1st of January, 1850, s]>ecif'ying the day of each meeting, 
 and the names ot the Commissioners present at it." That is the latest return which has been 
 called for. 
 
 21143. The Commissioners would desire to be furnished with a return of the attendance 
 up to the present day, in continuation of the returns that have already been prepared for 
 Parliament? — I am ([uite jirepared to do that, but you have all the materials. I cannot do 
 it unless vou return the minute books. 
 
 21141. When the books are returned you can. 
 
 21145. The names of members attending these meetings have not always been entered? 
 — I am not aware of that. 
 
 2114G. But it has been the usual practice? — Oh, certainly. 
 
 21147. Do you ascribe the irregularity of the attendance of the Commi.ssioners, to a 
 considerable extent, to this flict — that many of them are ])ersons holding very high official 
 positions, and ha\ing, therefore, other very inqiortant and ]ii'essing duties to perform? 
 — I certainly think it is very hard to exj>ect, and |ira(tically inqMissible to ])rociire, the 
 attendance of jjcrsons who have other important functions to j)erform, and jierhajis being 
 worked till a late hour in the day, to come afterwards and work at the Board. Practically, 
 T find it exceedingly difficult to get the i-.r-o/ftrid nu'mbers to attend. 
 
 21 14S. And thei'e is a difficulty in securing an efficient transaction of business when 
 the attendance is irregular? — Certainly; anil latterly it has become much more ^o. lean 
 state, that for a very long period, the Provost of the UiuNcrsity, who is an c.i-u/firio member, 
 was almost universally in attendance — scarc(l\ ever oinitled attending the meetings of the 
 Board, but latterly he does not attend so freiiueully. 
 
 2114!l. If the same persons do not constantly attend, it is hanl to secui-i" an uniformity 
 of ]iractice in tlu' ailniinistnition of tliC affiiirs of the Commissioners? — Certainly. 
 
 21150. The attendance being irregular, it is not possible to secure as niudi indi\idual
 
 •i toners 
 on ill 
 
 EVIDENCE, 97 
 
 interest, and feelinc; of imlividuiil responsibility, as would exist if tlio same persons constantly J^uhli.v. 
 attended and transacted tlie business? — Tiiat is my opinion. 
 
 21 IT)!. "What is the general nature of the business this I'oanl nf (\imiiiissioners, so 0} JCdumtTnii ... 
 constituted, has to transact; I mean, what is the ifoiieral natiii-e of the questions that couie Inlnnil, Clare nireef, 
 before them? — A considerable portion of their time is occu])ied by endeavourini>' to manai;e Duhlm. 
 
 their estates. Thev also pay as much attention as they can to ki'('|)inir the schoolhouses ^^ • '"■ '''.''''■ ■'''••> 
 under tiieir cai'c in a projier state of re])air. They entertain memoi-ials from the dilierent 
 parties connected with the schools, and manage them to the best of their al)ility. 
 
 'IWlrl. After reading through the minutes of the Commissioners for the last five years, 
 I should feel disposed to say that their proceedings related, for thr most ])art, to the 
 transactions between them and the tenants on their estates; corres])oiidence with the 
 masters, relative to rejiairs of the schoolhouses; the a])])ointment and salaries of masters 
 and assistant-masters; and the exhibitions in the uni\ersity, in connexion with the schools; 
 wouhl that be a correct representation of the general nature of their business? — 1 think it 
 is a very fiiir representation. 
 
 2\\b'<^. You have just stated that communications with reference to the tenants holding 
 land under the Commissioners occupy a very great part of the attention of the IJoard? — 
 I have; and so much so that latterly the Connnissioners liavc found it licttcr to refer the 
 memorials to individual members of the Board, who have a more practical knowledge of 
 the management of land than they generally have, and to make orders on them. For 
 instance, to Mr. Porter, who is one of the Commissioners, and practically acquainted with 
 some of the estates, and resident in the neighbourhood, have latterly been referred petitions 
 and memorials from tenants on the estates in his neighbourhood. The others are generally 
 referred to Master Lyle, avIio is the receiver-master for the coui'ts, and who has a great 
 deal of jiractical knowledge connected M'ith these matters. 
 
 21154. Mr. Porter is, in fact, aj)j)ointed a sub-committee, to consider the memorials of 
 the tenants, and to transact the business in general having reference to the estates under 
 the Board? — Practically he is so; the memorials are referred to him, lie collects all the 
 information he can, and makes an order, Avhich order is sanctioneil l>y the Board. 
 
 21155. He makes an order, which he reports to the Board ; but that order is not valid until 
 confirmed by a Board of Connnissioners? — No; but the Board never interfere with it. They 
 sanction it as a matter of course, the subject having been referred to him, and he having 
 taken the trouble to investigate it, and being one of the Commissioners himself. He some- 
 times makes a statement in coimexion with it. 
 
 21156. If it did not happen that the Connnissioners were able to obtain the assistance of 
 one member of their body so capable of performing services of this kind, it would be ditKcnlt 
 to transact business of that nature in a satisfactory way? — It was in consequence of its 
 being so that I suggested to the Commissioners that that order should be made, because 
 1 found that the correspondence was very voluminous, and, to my mind, very unsatisfiictory. 
 I then took the libert v' of suggesting that a sub-committee should be appointed. 
 
 21157. What, Dr. Kyle, are the names of the other Commissioners to whom reference is 
 made on the spot? — Mr. Porter is the only one. 
 
 21158 And as to what estates? — Enniskillen and Cavan. He resides near the lattei' 
 place, and has some local knowledge, and he is a member of the Board. The order of reference 
 to him, however, is only of recent date. 
 
 21159. The Commissioners have not only to consider memorials from tenants, relative to 
 the abatements of rents, and matters of that kind, but to answer other applications, such 
 as come before ordinary landlords, relating to the making of roads and bridges, &c. Has 
 not, in some instances, the Board been ol.iliged to devote a great deal of time to the con- 
 sideration of particular matters of that kind ? — Certainly ; a very volununous correspondence 
 has arisen on these matters. 
 
 21100. Has not a very voluminous correspondence arisen with reference to roads and 
 bridges? — Very voluminous, and the question is still unsettled. 
 
 21161. Is it your opinion that a Board consisting, for the most part, of persons holding 
 higli oifioial positions in the church and on the bench, is well fitted to transact the business 
 of a laniUord; considering also that the attendance of these official jiersonages is necessarily 
 irregular? — I think it is not; but I gi\e merely my individual ojiinion. 
 
 21162. As so much of the time and attention of the Board must be devoted to the 
 management of the estates, they have less time to spare for the consideration of the instruc- 
 tion to be given in tlie schools ? — That must be the necessary inference. 
 
 21163. In point of fact, I would ask j'ou whether there is not much more time devoted 
 to the management of the estates, than to th • management of the schools, regarded as 
 educational institutions? — I think there is. 
 
 21164. Have any difficulties in the management of the affairs of tlie schools arisen in 
 consequence of fiuctuations in the payment of the rents, arising out of the properties? — Yes. 
 
 21165. Would you state the nature of these difficulties? — There was necessity for regu- 
 larity in the payment of all the masters, the ushers, and the exhibitions ; and dm-ing the 
 great pressure Mhich came upon landed property in 1846, and subsequently down to a more 
 recent ])eriod, the Connnissioners had to applv the funds under their control, not strictly — 
 not legally — I slundd say, applicable to these piu'poses, and they paid these demands. I do 
 not know exactly whether I have answered the question in the way the Commissioners 
 require. 
 
 21166. Yes; but did not special difficulties arise in the case of the Ra]ihoe estate? — 
 Thev did arise, and still exist. It is a verv iieculiar iirouertv, and a verv unfortunate one. 
 
 Vol. II. .111. . ^
 
 98 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COI^IMISSION. 
 
 DunnK. 21167. To what particular cii'cumstances in the management of that property do you 
 
 _ — : . allude? — The property was for a long series of years lost, and only recently came under the 
 
 of EdncaiUm in " control of the Board. It is inhabited by the very lowest and most turbulent class. It is 
 
 Ireland. Cltire-street, situate in the wild mountain passes of the county Donegal, and it was found impossible for 
 
 Dublin. many years to collect any rent from it. Three different agents were appointed, who, after 
 
 W. C. Kyle, li-.d. holding their agencies for a year, re.spectivelv, resigned, without collecting any rent. The 
 
 present agent has collected some rent, and the Board has done a good deal in endeavouring 
 
 to make the condition of the tenantry better, by making them different allowances, and it is 
 
 now better than it was. 
 
 21168. How long has this property been in the state in which you describe? — Long 
 before my connexion with the Board — certainly upwards of twenty years. It is a matter 
 of notoriety that it is the most lawless part of the country — in tact, the centre of all illicit 
 distillation in the north of Ireland. It is situate in the mountain valley, which is called 
 the Gap of Barnsmore — if any of the Commissioners know where that is. 
 
 21169. Does the difficulty of managing the estate arise from local circumstances, rather 
 than from the property being mider the government of a Board constituted in this particular 
 way, or does it arise from other causes ? — I am not prepared to give an answer to the ques- 
 tion. Perhaps it is composed of both. 
 
 21170. It has been stated to the Commissioners that it was found necessary to build, out 
 of the funds at the tlisposal of the Board, a police barrack on that property? — That was so. 
 
 21171. Would you be so good as to give some ex]ilanation to the Commissioners as to 
 the circumstances connected \vith the building of that barrack? — There had been an old 
 house there for a series of years, and the population was in a very lawless and very disturbed 
 state. An application was made to the Commissionei's, and throiigh the Commissioners to 
 the Government, for the location of some constabulary force in that district; and the con- 
 stabulary authorities, in reply to it, stated they would not do so unless a proper barrack 
 was pirepared for them. This old house was then converted into a police barrack. There 
 was a very violent outrage committed there upon the property of an agent of the Board, a 
 Mr. Wray, whose house it was attempted to blow up with gunpowder ; but there is now a 
 great deal more prosperity in the country, and the property is coming round ; but it will 
 never be a very satisfactory estate, I am afraid. 
 
 21172. Is the building still used as a police barrack? — It is not. The police have been 
 removed, by onler of the constabulary force, to a position that they think better. 
 
 21173. To what purpose is the building now applied? — At present it is held by a small 
 tenant ; but it is intended, if possible, to get a party of revenue police put there, with the 
 view of suppressing illicit distillation, and, perhaps, getting some rent for the house. 
 
 21174 Was not rent paid during the time the barrack was occupied by the constabu- 
 lary? — There is a correspondence on the subject, biit I think not. My x'ecollection is, that 
 the understanding was, that they were not to be charged for it. I believe, in fact, there was 
 a payment made, but they demanded it back, as being a payment made in error. 
 
 2i 1 75. Was it not also found necessary to build a police barrack on the Dungannon estate ? — 
 The Enniskillen estate, I think it is ; I do not think there was one built on the Dungannon estate. 
 
 21176. \Secretary. — It was built on the Dungannon Royal school estate.] 
 
 21177. It is so — I made a mistake; I remember the circumstance now. I think it was 
 built because of the agent being fired at. 
 
 21178. Is it your opinion tliat sufficient powers are vested in the Commissioners for 
 enabling them duly to manage the schools which are placed under their control ? — I think 
 their powers are very defective ; I think the Act of Parliament is quite insufficient. 
 
 21179. Would you be so good as to state the particulars in which you think theii' powers 
 are defective ? — I think the appointment of the masters and ushers is altogether in the wrong 
 place. The masters are appointed altogether irrespective of the Commis.sioners, who 
 ought to have complete control over them. They ]>roducc their patents to the Commis- 
 .sioners, and do not feel themselves, \ think, sutlicicntly subordinate; and the Couunis- 
 sioners have no power of ja-omotion, which they ought to have. They have no power of 
 superannuation, which I think they clearly ought to have. In the case of masters and 
 ushers the Board has no power of visiting, except by what, practically, I know to be a veiy 
 cumbrous, expensive, and not a very effective mode of visitation, but which is j)ointed out by 
 the Act of Parliament; and even then, it can only dismiss for niiscoitduct ; and a man may 
 be negligeiit, careless, or inattentive, and still it would be difficult to prove that to be mi.s- 
 condiict — it may be a sort of non-feasance more than any thing else. I think the Commis- 
 sioners do not po.ssess nearly ))ower enough. They have no inspectors, no means of paying 
 them; and there is no authority under the Act for this purpose. The Board know nothing 
 of the masters until they come to them as masters. 
 
 21180. Then the first defect in the jiowers of the Commissioners to which you draw our 
 attention is the mode in wliirh the masters of the schools are ap]iointed? — 'J'hat is a veiy 
 imjiortant one. 
 
 21181. What suggestions woidd you make for the purjwso of removing that defect? — I 
 would leave the power of a])i)oint,ment witli the persons who have the power of control, or 
 ought to have the power of control. I would make the appointment open to competition and 
 examination as to fitness, not merely as regards scii(ilarshi]>, but fitness for the office of 
 imparting instruction, as I think they are vei'y diil'erent tilings; and I wouitl also establish a 
 system of firomotion. For instance, it tlicrc was ;in assistant who became fit, or was con- 
 sidered fit for a head mastership, I think he should be promoted to it; and I think there 
 should also be the power of superannuating masters or ushers who were deserving of it. At
 
 EVIDENCE. 99 
 
 present the Board possess none of those powers. Tliere should lie also a very strict and Uvnus. 
 rijnd course of inspection of the schools constantly. The Board has no inspectors, or the „, 
 
 £' • .1 • The Commiftniotmrs 
 
 means of paying them. . ,. . . , . . of lidu,n,ion in 
 
 21182. Have not the Board the power ot dismissing masters found to be inefficient, or Ireland, Chre-sireet, 
 proved to iuive misconducted themselves':' — I think it is very difficult to obtain what is VubUn. 
 
 sufficient proof of misconduct. ^V'. C.Kyle, li..i>. 
 
 2118-i. Do you think inoiHcioncy would be regarded as misconduct? — That is a matter 
 entirely for the opinion of the Board. 
 
 21181. Do not the masters hold their situations during good beha\iour? — 1 am not aware 
 just now how the words of the patent run. 
 
 21185. Have the Commissioners of Education ever dismissed a master for inefficiency or 
 misconduct? — I am not aware; I do not recollect that they iiave. 
 
 2118(). Have they ever suspended any master? — I do not recollect that they ever have. 
 
 21187. Hasthe Board prcparedany definite codeof rules forthe guidance of theschoolmasters 
 under their control ? — Not that I am aware. Tiiey have from time to time issuedcertain ordei's ; 
 but I do not know of any regular code having l)een prepared ; certainly not in my time. 
 
 21188. Either as regards tlie discipline to be maintained in the schools, or the course of 
 instruction to be given? — They have from time to time made certain orders in reference to 
 both one and the other ; but there are no general rules. 
 
 21189. No code of rules? — No code of rules, except those published for the Royal schools. 
 211'J0. You mention, as one of the defective powers in the Commissioners, their inability 
 
 to carry on a complete and efficient system of inspection? — I think it is absolutely necessarj^ 
 for the wellbeing of the schools. 
 
 2111)1. What is the nature of the inspection which is occasionally exercised by the Com- 
 missioners? — Occasionally some of the Commissioners, who hapj)en to be in the neighbourhood 
 of the school, go and examine it. At one time, I recollect (it is a good many years ago), two 
 of the Conniiissioners went round of their own mere motion ; they visited several of the 
 royal schools, examined the boys, and stated their opinion to the Board on their return to 
 town; but there is no system of inspection. 
 
 21192. Was that an exce])tional case?. — I think it was. I may state, as a general rule, 
 there is no system of inspection. 
 
 21193. Then, as a matter of fact, are the masters of the schools left pretty much to their 
 own discretion in managing the internal affiiirs of the schools ? — Except where cases of com- 
 plaint are brought before the Board, I think they are, and except sending out those skeleton 
 returns which the masters are obliged to fill up. 
 
 211 94. Are you of opinion that these half-yearly returns supply, at all adequately, the want 
 of a vigorous periodical inspection ? — Certainly not. I would have a very frequent, and a 
 very rigid inspection by persons who ai'e perfectly competent to conduct it. 
 
 21195. In cases where these half-yearly returns indicate that the attendance of scholars in a 
 school is vei'y small, have the Commissioners taken any steps to inquire into the cause of that 
 small attendance ? — They have ; and in some cases they have reduced the number of assist- 
 ants allowed by the Board, or paid by the Board. 
 
 21196. Have the Commissioners, in reviewing these returns, regarded the small attendance 
 as prima fdcii' evidence that the school was not in an efficient state? — In consequence of the 
 reduced numbers, as I stated before, they have struck ofi:' the payment of an assistant, and 
 called the attention of the master to the fact of a smaller number being in attendance than 
 there ought to be. 
 
 21197. Has that been an uniform practice? — There is no uniformity in the practice. 
 
 21198. Is there any analysis made of the returns of the attendance, for the purpose of 
 seeing whether the schools are in an efficient state, as indicated by the increase or steadiness 
 or decline in the number of pupils attending? — There is no analysis that I am aware of, 
 further than this : — that the Commissioners, when the returns are laid before them, discuss 
 them, and refer to previous returns to see whether the number is decreasing or increasing; 
 and the very frequent retm-ns they are called on to make to Parliament, almost indicate these 
 things. There is scarcely a session that there are not two or three sets of returns made, 
 which go to the very point as to the number of pupils in attendance. 
 
 21199. Having had now so long an exyjerienee of the working of the Board, wliat would 
 you recommend as an efficient system of inspection ? — I would have ])aid officers competent 
 to discharge the duties, sent round constantly, not periodically, but constantly to visit ; 
 and they should fnrnish the governing body in Dublin with their reports, from actual 
 inspection and pjersonal knowledge. 
 
 21200. Would you be so good as to describe more particularly the mode in which you 
 would recommend that they should perform their dutv in the schools at these inspections? 
 — I would have them examine the buildings of the school perfectlv and thoroughly; and I 
 would have them examine the boys, and inquire into the rules kejit by the master, to see 
 really and bona Jidc what his school was ; what he taught, what the ushers taught ; but I 
 would, above all things, have them examine the boys, and report theii- proficiency. In fact, I 
 would have a rigid inspection of everything connected with the establishment. 
 
 21201. Such an inspection of schools of a superior kind, could only be carried on by- 
 persons of great intelligence and of extensive actpiirements ? — Certainly, it would require 
 these qualifications; but I think there might be two classes of inspection. I would have a 
 visitation of the schools by the Commissioners themselves, which would be of great use in 
 connexion with the rejiorts received by them from an efficient class of persons visiting and 
 inspecting them officially. The Commissioners should perform a sort of circuit ; but I would 
 
 Vol. II. 2
 
 100 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Conuiiissioners 
 
 "f EdiiCdIion in 
 
 Ireland^ C/are-ifni-ff 
 
 Diihliu. 
 
 W. C. Kyle. i.L.i). 
 
 have the iii.spectors goino- round constantly, and making their reports in tiie mean time, so 
 tliat the Commissioners could judge of their truth when they went down. 
 
 ar2()2. You could liardlj' expect Commissioners wlio lield high otiicial jiositions to 
 carrj' on a visitation of that kind? — Certainly; and I was alluding more to the case of 
 paid Commissioners, because I feel very stronglj- that the Commissioners ought to be paid. 
 
 •J120:!. On what grounds have you formed that opinion? — Upon an experience of 
 twenty years, in connexion with the working of this and other Boards, and on the general 
 2")rinciple (I speak with great respect to the present Commissioners), that work not paid 
 for is very seldom efiicientl_y dune. 
 
 21"204. Then it is your opinion, that an inspection, to be complete, should be con- 
 ducted by inspectors of two classes ; in the first instance, by inspectors to be employed 
 under the control of the Commissioners, who would from time to time visit the schools, 
 examine the scholars, and inquire into the whole of the internal economy of these estab- 
 lishments; and also by the Commissioners themselves occasionally holding visitations in 
 the schools, whenever there appeared to be any special occasion for them to inquire into 
 the mode in which the schools were managed? — I think that would be a vast improvement ; 
 but I would not confine the visitation of the i^aid Commissioners merelj' to occasions 
 when complaints were made, because I would have it done regularly — perhaps twice a-year. 
 
 21^05. Then in point of fact you think a part, and a very imp<irtant part, of the duty of 
 the Commissioners would be to hold inspections of the schools ? — I do. I maj' be alto- 
 gether wrong, but that is my opinion. 
 
 21206. Are you of opinion that their inspection would produce more beneficial results 
 because of their having more authority than the other inspectors? — Yes. I think the 
 masters would then feel tliey had a controlling power over them ; hut these visitations by 
 the Commissioners should not be considered by any means as substitutes for the inspections 
 and reports of the inspectors. 
 
 21207. Do you not think that an efficient system of inspection would produce this good 
 result, that whatever arrangement was found to operate well in one institution would be 
 introduced, after experience, into others ? — Certainly. 
 
 2 1208. What orders. Dr. Kyle, liave been made by the Board with reference to the 
 admission of free pupils into the diflerent classes of schools under their management? — 
 There have been very few distinct orders on that subject. The latest I recollect was 
 made in the case of the Armagh school, where there were orders that ten free pupils 
 should be admitted in certain proportions, because the nuvnber of free scholars, as per the 
 returns made, exceeded the number the master was ordered to receive. 
 
 21200. AVhat instructions are given to the master as to the jjersons who should get 
 admission as free pupils? — There was a set of rules prepared in the case to which I 
 alluded — the Armagh school — at a meeting of the Board held on the 31st October, 1848, 
 with reference to the admission of boys there; but there is no general code of rules laid 
 down as to the admission of free boys, because there has always been a difference of 
 opinion, at least a doubtful opinion, as to what the duty of the master is with reference to 
 receiving free pupils, though practically they all receive them. The Commissioners fixed 
 no number that I recollect in m\y case but in the case of Armagh; but the masters have 
 from time to time stated that they never refuse any free scholars who are well conducted 
 and fit to receive the instruction that the school affords. The question of the admission 
 of fi'ee boys is an undecided question with regard to these schools. 
 
 21210. The question as to the obligation to receive free scholars you think is unde- 
 cided ? — I could scarcel}^ say it is undecided, for there the Commissioners did lay down a 
 code of rules, and the master acquiesced in them. 
 
 21211. In the case of Armagh? — Yes ; hut all of the masters, in point of fact, liave free 
 scholars, and do not dis]iute tlie right of the Board in this respect; but at the same time 
 I know the feeling is, that they are not bouiul to receive them. In fact, I know that the 
 feeling was more strong than it is at iiresent. If I might take the liberty of rcfen-ing 
 to some evidence (which is in print) that I gave twenty years ago, before a committee 
 of tlie House of Commons, when I was examined on this very question, I think it will be 
 found I stated my opinion fidly on this subject. I cainiot state much more than I did then. 
 
 21212. You are referring, Dr. Kyle, to some evidence given by you on a former 
 occasion? — I merely wish to read the evidence which I gave before a committee of the 
 House of Connnons in 18;)ri. 
 
 2121;3. You now repeat that as the ex]>ression of your o])iniun on the same subject? — 
 I do not see any reason materially to change my opinion about it; but I think the 
 masters are more liberal in admitting free pujiils than they were then. I do not think 
 the Board has enforced any general rule with r(>gard to the admission of free scholars; 
 there is some doubt as to what the meaning of the words "free scholars " is. 
 
 21211. As a matter of fact, tlie Board have not taken any conclusive steps, or passed 
 any resolution defining tlie words "free schools?" — The words of the charter, certainly not. 
 
 2121-5. Did not the Board issue a circular having reference to the admission of 
 scholars into the diocesan schools. This copy of one has been brought before the Com- 
 missioners: would you be so good as to read thut circular? — It is as follows: — 
 
 " TuK ColIMISSIONEES OK ElHCATloN IN IltKLAND. CjKCULAU. 
 
 "April Gth, 18.'U). 
 "Sir, — By order of the Commissioners of Education, I beg leave to inform you that, a 
 question having been lately raised with respect to tlie liability of the masters of the
 
 EVIDENCE. 101 
 
 diocesan ami district schools througliout Ireland to take free scholars, it was ordered tiiat Uuhlix. 
 
 tlie following answer be given in the case alluded to, and that the same be conininnicated .,., ,, : . 
 
 to tlie several masters oi those scliools. „/ Juin- ution in 
 
 " That the Conmiissioners, conceiving that diocesan free schools were intended by the In/and, cime-fireei, 
 legislature foi' the benefit of sucli persons, resident in the respective dioceses, as might Diiiilm. 
 
 wisli to give their children a classical education, as day sclicihirs, free of expense, consider, "• ' ' '^^ ' '•'■•"• 
 as they always have done, that it is imperative on tlie masters of tliose schools to receive 
 day scholars accordingly ; and that the consolidaticm of such diocesan schools into district 
 schools, pursuant to the provisions of the M\-A George III., cap. 107, sec. 92, does not 
 alter the case, except that the inhabitants of all the dioceses composing the district, are to 
 have equal right to freipient the school, and that therefore the district school under con- 
 sideration is to be a free school, according to the express words of the statute, not how- 
 ever debarring thf master of the school from receiving voluntary remuneration from any 
 of the parents of the children who may think i:>roper to give it. 
 
 " I am, kc, 
 
 (Signed) " W. C. Quinx, Secretary." 
 
 I'hat is signed by my predecessor, Mr. t^uinn, five years before I had any connexion 
 with the Board. 
 
 •21'21(). Is that resolution in force ? — I am not aware that it has been rescinded. I never 
 heard of this letter before ; it is the first time I ever saw this letter. 
 
 21217. Can you state whether the Board, since you have been secretarj', has made any 
 order on the subject? — I do not recollect that they have made any general order; but I 
 know there have been communications from time to time with the dirl'erent masters on the 
 subject, and the masters have yielded whenever an application was made to them. This 
 letter seems to me to be more an expression of opinion of the Commissioners than an 
 order. 
 
 21218. Is it not headed " circular?" — It is. 
 
 21219. Can you say whether it was communicated to the masters of all the diocesan 
 schools ? — I cannot; but I presume, from the fact of its being headed "circular," that it 
 was; but it was written five years before I had any connexion with the Board. At tlie 
 same time I do not think it is sufficiently strong to be an order, if the Board felt they had 
 the power. 
 
 21220. Have j'ou any minute of a corresponding date in the minute book, relative to this 
 circular ? — There ought to be ; and therefore it could be ascertained, I think, by referring 
 to the letter books, whether it was sent to the difierent masters. I know if it happened in 
 my time, such would be the case ; all our letters are entered. 
 
 21221. Mr. 5/(y>/;w,'i. — Are those books in court? — No; except the current one. I 
 should state in reference to that question, that there was a notice sent to me by Dr. Han- 
 cock, calling on me for a list of all the books of the Board. I furnished it; and then a 
 subsequent order came to me, calling for certain books, which I supplied. I am ready to 
 supjdy all others, but I only sent those that were called for, and the letter books were not 
 called for. For reference, I brought the current letter book. 
 
 21222. Rev. Dr. Gmre.s. — Has not the attention of the Commissioners of Education 
 been directed more to the affairs of the Royal schools, than to the afi'airs of the diocesan 
 schools ? — A great deal more, from the circumstance of their having estates connected 
 with them, independent of the schools being more largely attended. 
 
 21223. Have not the Commissioners also taken a more active part in watching over the 
 internal economy of the royal schools ? — I think so. 
 
 21224. And more carefully superintended the course of instruction carried on in them? 
 — Yes. I think the feeling of the Board is, tliat they have more control over the royal 
 schools than they have over the others. They do not pay the masters of the other schools ; 
 they are paid directly by the bishops and clergy, and the control of the Board over the dio- 
 cesan schools is very trifling indeed, except calling for returns from them. 
 
 21225. Have any questions been brought before the Board, as to their jmisdiction and . 
 power of interference in the afi'airs of the diocesan schools? — Not for a long series of 
 
 years. There was a good deal of correspondence about twent\' years ago, between the 
 Grand Jury of the county of Limerick and the Board, as to their power of recommending 
 a certain number of free scholars, and there was a sort of bargain or contract made between 
 them, that the Grand Jury should have the power of nominating a certain number; that is 
 referred to in the evidence I gave twenty years ago. 
 
 21220. Were any steps taken by the Commissioners to ascertain if that compact Avas 
 carried into effect ? — No ; tlie power was given, as I recollect, to the Grand Jury to 
 appoint a certain number of free scholars to the diocesan school, and T do not believe the 
 Grand Jury exercised the power that was given them. That is a matter which rested 
 with the Grand Jury whether they did or not. The matter occurred a great many years 
 ago, and I believe I state it correctly. 
 
 21227. I believe you state the circumstances correctly. 
 
 31228. Have not school scholarships been established in one of the Royal schools under 
 the management of the Board ? — At Enniskillen royal school there are four. 
 
 2122'.l. Would you be so good as to state in what way appointments to these school 
 scholarships are conferred ? — There is a code of rules for the regulation of them, which 
 was prepared a good many years ago by the Commissioners, by which the master of the 
 school is required to send up a list to the Commissioners of the most descn-ing boys, and
 
 102 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DCBLIIC. 
 
 The Vinmnissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland. Clare-street. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C Kvle. LL.D. 
 
 fi-om that list so sent up by the master the Board selects. The qualifications are, gene- 
 rally speaking — the boys commencing low down in the school, the poverty of their parents, 
 and their being natives of the town or of the county of Fermanagh. Some other qualifi- 
 cations there are also in the list sent up, and out of it the Commissioners select the 
 persons they think best. 
 
 212;10. Then in no case have these school scholarships been proposed for competition 
 amongst the scholars ? — There may be competition amongst them at the school. I do not 
 know how it is that the master makes the selection ; but he sends up the table containing the 
 names of the boys, their residences, the residences of the parents, the number of children 
 in the school from which they come, and then he refers to the children who have the most 
 merit. How he ascertains that I am not in a position to state — whether he examines them 
 or not. In fact, he could not well do it by competition, because they are of totally difierent 
 classes and ages. 
 
 21-2:3i. How do you explain the fact that this institution of school scholarships has not 
 been introduced into any other schools under the Board ? — The funds of the EnniskiUen 
 school are larger than the funds of any of the other schools, and, therefore, admit better 
 of it. 
 
 21232. How has the institution of these school scholarships worked ; has it been pro- 
 ductive of a good efiect ? — I can scarcely give any opinion upon that. I should suppose 
 it has ; it has generally given persons who were very poor, and in great need of them, an 
 opportunity of continuing in the school ; and several of them I know have afterwards been 
 successful competitors for the royal scholarships to which they are appointed on compe- 
 titive examination in the university, after they have left the school and entered college. 
 I believe it has enabled some boys to live in the school and clothe themselves, who other- 
 wise could not do so. However, that is a matter which I do not wish to state, as it might, 
 perhaps, hurt their feelings. 
 
 212:53. Is not a certain number of these university exliibitions attached to each of the 
 Royal schools ? — There is, and I have a copy of the rules connected with them. 
 
 21234. There is a limited number of Royal scholarships, or university exhibitions, 
 attached to each particular school ? — Each particular school. 
 
 21235. Is there considerable competition for these scholarships? — There is. The course 
 is l.iid down by the Commissioners ; and it is generally varied, on the recommendation of 
 the examiners, from time to time ; and the Commissioners of Education who appoint, know 
 nothing about the boys until they get the report of the examiners. 
 
 21230. What efiect, in your opinion, has the establishment of these exhibitions upon 
 the schools under the management of the Board ? — I think it has been very beneficial to 
 the schools to which they are attached. 
 
 21237. Do you think it promotes diligence on the part both of masters and of pupils ? 
 — It is looked to as a very great prize; they are tenable for five years; and, in some 
 instances, I know that an exhibition of £50 a-year has enabled a boy to support himself 
 in college, who could not otherwise have done so, as his private means would not enable 
 him. 
 
 31238. The funds for the maintenance of these exhibitions are taken from those 
 attached to the separate schools ? — Yes. 
 
 21239. I mean to say, the Commissioners are not at liberty to constitute exhibitions for 
 the benefit of one school with the funds arising out of the lands connected with another 
 school ? — The Commissioners are of that opinion ; and I believe they took the opinion of 
 the law officers of the day, who stated that they were bound to allocate the funds of each 
 school to its own purposes, with the exceptions pointed out by the Act of Parliament ; and, 
 therefore, thej' kept separate accoinits for each school, and allocated to every school that 
 had a sur])lus sufficient to do so, these exhibitions ; and that is the reason why in some of 
 the scliools there are more exliibitions than in others, because of the difference of the 
 funds. 
 
 2 12 to. Do you think it would be expedient to leave the Commissioners more free to 
 allocate these funds — to distribute these funds differently ? — That is a matter of opinion ; 
 I have formed one myself. 
 
 21211. I ask you to give that opinion, as you have had such long experience in the 
 affau'S of this Board ? — I think it is a gi-eat mistake that the estates of the different schools 
 should lie necessarily allocated to ea<'li particular school. If I had the power to do so, I 
 should have a common fund ; and then 1 would o])en these exhibitions to all the royal 
 schools, or, perhaps, to all the world, for general competition. 
 
 21242. That is, to pupils coming from all the schools in Ireland? — If I had my own 
 way, I should do so. 
 
 21213. Do you tliink that such an arrangement would act beneficially upon the schools 
 which are especially committed to the care; of the ('oimiiissioiiers? — I think, if there were 
 good masters attached to them, the system would ; but I must also beg to say, that the 
 opinion I am giving is purely my own, and perliaps may be quite at variance with the 
 02)inions of other persons more competent to form them. 
 
 21244. After each examination for university exhibitions the examiners appointed by 
 the provost and senior fellows of Trinity College make a report to the Commissioners of 
 Education, stating the nature of the answering, and making recommendations ? — They 
 do. These reports are all in the possession of the present Commission. 
 
 21245. Does it aii|)ear from these reports that there has often been a very considerable 
 difference of merit in the candidates coming from the different schools ? — Certainly.
 
 W. C. KvIp. i.L.i). 
 
 EVIDENCE. 103 
 
 21246. So that at one time it would appear desirable that the pupils from one school J>fBi,iN. 
 
 had a larger share of the exhibitions than the puiiils from other schools ? — Certainlv. ,_ ,, r . 
 
 21217. vVliereas, accorchng to the pi'esent regulation, a denuite number ot scholarships „( Eitumtion irc i 
 should be awarded to the pupils coming from eacli school ? — The fact is, tliat the effect of Irdund, Clure-ttnet, 
 having them allocated to the special schools very often prevents a boy of the greatest Pnhlm. 
 
 merit getting the least exhibition. A boy may get £30 only, and have higher answering 
 than another who gets £50. I may say there are separate books connected with the 
 transactions of these Royal scholarships ; the accounts are kept separately, and are all in 
 the hands o{ tliis Commission. 
 
 2121H. The Commissioners of Education liaving to make regulations with regard to 
 these exhibitions, and having to define tlie course in which the pupils are to be examined, 
 are obliged, therefore, to pay considerable attention to the scliool curriculum in eacli of 
 the Royal schools ? — Do you mean the entire curriculum ? 
 
 21249. Yes. — I do not think they interfere so much with that, as with the appointed 
 course, which must be answered in, in order to secure success. 
 
 21250. Must not the establishment of that course define very mucli the nature of the 
 instruction to be communicated in the school ? — It creates a necessity for special instruc- 
 tion, in addition to what was necessary for entrance into the university. The university 
 entrance course must be answered in, and the special course pomted out by the Commis- 
 sioners of Education. I do not know whether I exactly answer the question, or whether 
 I understand the question put to me or not. 
 
 21251. It is an answer, in point of fact, to the question proposed to you. Have the 
 Commissioners, from time to time, made considerable changes in the course prescribed for 
 candidates for the royal exhibitions? — They have ; and the document which I hold in 
 my hand now was the result of an alteration made last month, chiefly on the recommen- 
 dation of the examiners, and the suggestions of some of the masters ; and also in 
 accordance with the opinion of the members of the Board. 
 
 21252. Would you be so good as to state the principal changes which have been intro- 
 duced of late into the examination for roj'al scholarships ? — I may state, generally, that 
 formerly the course of examination for these royal scholarships was tlie College entrance 
 course with the addition of two Greek plays, which were varied constantly, and a course 
 of examination in history and geography ; and also an examination in some classical 
 authors, with which the boys were sujiposed not to be previously acquainted ; and also in 
 composition. At present the course is altered, and the boys are not examined either in 
 Virgil, Xenophon, or Lucian — these books being considered rather of too elementary a cha- 
 racter for such prizes as these exhibitions are esteemed to be. The course of examination 
 at present has been varied in conformity with the recently established course in Trinity 
 College, with the exception of Virgil's ^Eneid, Xenophon, and Lucian ; and there has been 
 added, as a special course, Stanford's Selections from Plato, and passages taken from such 
 Greek and Roman authors as are not parts of the Trinity College entrance course ; they 
 are examined also in translating French into English, and in such a knowledge of English 
 literature, and the history of English literature, as may be derived from Milton's Paradise 
 Lost, and Johnson's Lives of the Poets. The examination in history is as follows: — ancient, 
 as contained in the Old and New Testaments; Grecian — that published by the Society 
 of Useful Knowledge; Roman — Keightley's Roman Republic and Empire; English — 
 Keightley's English History. Another material alteration which has been made is, that 
 the entire examination, with the exception of that in history, is carried on by means of 
 written questions and answers. 
 
 2125.'5. And have these changes been mainly introduced on the application of the 
 examiners appointed by the Board ? — The course pursued was this : the examiners recom- 
 mended considerable alterations, the Boai-d approved that recommendation, and directed 
 a circular to be sent out to the different masters of the schools affected by it, asking their 
 opinion on the proposed changes. These opinions, when collected, were submitted to the 
 Board, and this was the result. Fellow-commoners are not eligible to these scholarships, 
 the object being to give them particularly to persons of limited means. 
 
 21254. The regulation respecting the tenure of these scholarships requires continued 
 diligence on tlie part of the exhibitioners ?— -It is absolutely necessary. They are requii-ed 
 to obtain a certain number of honors during the course to hold an exhibition. 
 
 21255. In each year ? — In each year ; for I do not submit the drafts for payment to the Com- 
 missioners, until I have ascertained that they have kept up their qualification, in having 
 obtained tlie prescribed number of honors in the preceding six months; and in case of 
 forfeiture, which frequently, but not very frequently, takes place, the lads at tlie end of the 
 year, who have had merit and exhibitions, or scholarships of minor value, and who have 
 obtained a number of distinctions, memorial for promotion, and then promotion takes 
 place. 
 
 21256. Then these scholarships are distributed according to a regulation, which makes 
 them, not only the reward of past diligence, but also a stimulus to future exertion ? — 
 Yes. There must be a continued exhibition of merit. 
 
 21257. Is there any provision made in cases where jiersons holding these scholarships, 
 fall into ill-health ; or, by unavoidable causes, are hindered from complying with the regu- 
 lation to which you have just now alluded ? — When I first became secretary to the Boai-d, 
 there were a great number of excuses made for the non-production of the ceilificates of 
 honors, and veiy frequently medical certificates, that the boy was not able to read or 
 attend to his studies. However, after some time, the Board found these certificates so
 
 104 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ul-uhx. unsatisfactory — in fact, in some cases, such a mere sham — that they determined to receive no 
 
 77 Ci'i ■■<• « excuse of any kind ; and now, unless the boy obtains a certain number of lienors within 
 
 of Education in the prescribed time, his exhibition becomes absolutely forfeited. I should, perhaps, men- 
 
 Ire.liiHd. C/are-atreet. tion, in connexion with the question the Commissioner has asked, with reference to sick- 
 
 '■ ness being an excuse for not having kept up the necessary qualification, it was felt at that 
 
 AA . C. K\ lo, LJ.n. (.^jj-^g ^i^^i |_jjg standard was too severe. It was necessary that a first honor should be 
 
 attained in classics, and when the medical certificates were thrown overboard, competition 
 
 in science was admitted as well as in classics, and a knowledge of either classics or science 
 
 became a qualification; and now either one first-class honor (or two second-class honors), 
 
 in cither science or classics, are deemed qualifications ; formerly it was one first-class 
 
 honor in classics only. 
 
 21-358. Are all classes of the pupils educated in the Royal schools alike, and on equal 
 terms, admitted to compete for the Royal scholarships, whether boarders, day scholars, 
 or free pupils ? — I am not aware of the slightest restriction of any kind, except that Fel- 
 low-commoners are not eligible to them ; I believe they are open to all. 
 
 212.5'.). There is no religious restriction'/ — There is none ; in fact, no religious qualifica- 
 tion is necessary for the Royal scholarshii)s. The Commissioners do not know any thing 
 of the religion of any of the pupils of the schools. 
 
 21260. Is not the number of boarders in the Royal schools at present larger than the 
 number of daj- scholars ? — Generally speaking, it is. 
 
 21201. To what circumstance do you ascribe the smallness of the number of the day 
 scholars V — I am not prepared to give you a direct answer to tliat question ; it may arise 
 from various causes. Perhaps the towns or situations in which the schools are placed, 
 are not the very best. I am not perfectly acqrtainted with the cause. 
 
 2121)2. Do 3'ou ascribe it to tlie magnitude of the cliarge for day scholars? — I do not; 
 for looking to the charges, I do not think they are high — six guineas, eight guineas, and 
 ten guineas ; and the course is more extensive than it used to be. 
 
 21203. Do you think it would be possible to make the schools more generally useful as 
 day schools, by fixing a moderate charge for the admission of daj' scholars ? — I think 
 (but I am merely expressing my own opinion) that the schools, by a complete alteration in 
 the system, might be made more generally useful. 
 
 21204. You sjteak of a general alteration in the system? — I think very great improve- 
 ments might be made, so far as the public is concerned. 
 
 21265. The Commissioners feel bound to ask you, what change of system you think would 
 benefit the public in that respect ? — I think the Royal schools, being such large establish- 
 ments, ought to be made more day schools. I have turned in my own mnid a plan for this 
 purpose, and, if tlie Commissioners wish, I will state it. but it is merely nij' own opinion. 
 
 21206. The Commissioners wisli to receive an opinion founded on such extensive 
 experience as j'ou have had '? — I would make these schools a great deal more day schools 
 than they are at present. I would allow the master to have a certain limited number of 
 boarders ; with the charge for boarders I would not interfere — I wotild let that be a matter 
 of contract between tlie master and boarders. I should fix the sum to be paid annually by 
 each day-boy at a lower rate than it is at present. I should lay down a code of rules for 
 the government of the master. I should lay down a course of instruction for tlie pupils. 
 These Royal scliools are large buildings, and miglit be made more efiicient as day schools, 
 by the estabUshment of museums, libraries, lectures, and instruction of that sort. 
 
 21267. That is such of them as are in a populous neighbourhood? — Yes; but I think, 
 even independent of that, if the course of instruction was verj- good, the opportunities for 
 it frequent, and the remuneration very moderate, persons would come to reside in the 
 neighbourhood. I know such is the case in Rugby, where persons go to reside for the 
 benefit of getting a clieap education for their children ; the effect of that is to raise the 
 price of lodgings and houses tlicre, I know. 
 
 212lii~!. You said, tliat you thouglit an improved course of instruction would induce a 
 greater number of pupils to frequent tlie schools established under the system of which 
 you have now been speaking. In wliat respect would you desire the course of instruction 
 to be modified or extended ?— 1 would classify the course of instruction. For instance, I 
 would have a course for j)orsons who were inlcndcd for tlie learned professions; and 
 anotlier for tliose going into business ; and a tliird c(nu'se of instruction, sucli as is re(pured 
 for the examination at Woolwicli. I would, in fact, have an I'higlish and scientific course, 
 and a classical course, so tliat the pupils miglit select what would be most beneficial to 
 them in afterlife. 
 
 2120i). And you think it would be jiossible to <'ombine these courses in tlie one estab- 
 lishment ? — It is a mere matter of detail. I do not see any dilViculty nuu'e than there is 
 in having the diffc'rcnt schools that are in Trinity C'ollcge. Tliere there is an engineering 
 sclioo], and schools for tlie different professions, miuI I do not see why the same system 
 Could not be carried out in the Royal schools. It is a mere matter of arrangement; I 
 think most of the buildings arc large enough for the purpose, and if the number of boarders 
 was limited, of course a great deal more of the resi)ective houses would be available. 
 
 21270. You speak of libraries and museums to be attiuhed to the schools; liave the 
 Royal scliools libraries attaclit'd to them? — To some extent they have. At Armngh there 
 are some books, and some books were granted lately, but they were merely books of 
 reference, for the higher class of the boys that were eminent scholars in tli{> scliool. 
 
 21271. But the Commissioners are in favour of the establishment and maintenance of 
 libraries ? — Certainly.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 105 
 
 21272. And h.ive tliey not given grants for tlie purpose of keeping thorn in an efficient 
 state ? — Certainly, as far as the funds enable them. 
 
 2127S. Are tliere museums or laboratories in connexion with .any of tlic scliools ? — 'J'here 
 are not. I thinli it desirable there sliould be; and that is part of the improvement I 
 would suggest. I would have lectures on the elements of science, such as steam, elec- 
 tricity, and subjects of that Icind. 1 would have professors of natural and applied science. 
 
 21274. Have any complaints been made to the Board of Commissioners of the want of 
 these moans and appliances in connexion with the lloyal or other schools under their 
 management ? — I do not know that any comjtlaints have been made. I tnink there were 
 one or two suggestions made some time ago for this purpose ; but the Board had not the 
 means of carrying them out. 
 
 21275. Has the course of instruction in the schools been made mainly to depend on the 
 requirements of the university '! — I think it has, and varied very much with it. It has 
 been varied particularly in consequence of the great improvements in the entrance course 
 of the university, for I consider them great improvements; and I think had the university 
 introduced modern languages and other alterations into the entrance course, not only the 
 Koyal schools, but all schools would have adopted them too. 
 
 2127 6. The establishment of the system of competitive examination for admission into 
 Woolwich and other public departments, must produce a similar elfect upon the scliools 
 in widening the course of instruction given in them ? — It must have an effect on all 
 schools — n. most beneficial effect. 
 
 21277. You stated that there was no restriction hindering the admission of Eoman 
 Catholic pupils into the Royal schools ? — I never heard of au}-. I meau I never heard of 
 any restriction being imposed by the Board. 
 
 21278. Have any regulations been laid down with regard to the course of religious 
 instruction to be pursued in the schools ? — Yes ; I remember in two instances the question 
 was raised before the Commissioners. I think in the case of the Carysfort school 
 and the Dungannou school. The lato master of the Dungannon school, Dr. Darlej', was 
 in the habit of making it compulsory on all pupils to be present when prayers were read 
 in the morning. I believe he used to read a chapter in the Testament — it v,-as, however, 
 some religious instruction to which some pai-ents of the boys objected. Some person 
 wrote up to complain, I suppose a parent of one of the children ; and an order was at once 
 issued to Dr. Darley, that he should not nuike religious instruction, or attendance upon any 
 religious service, compulsory upon any child to which that child or his parents objected. 
 
 21279. Ml-. Sli'ithdiis. — Is that order in writing? — Oh yes, it is on the minutes; and 
 was communicated to Dr. Darley. 
 
 21280. liave you the minutes before j'ou ? — I have not, but I can refer to them. I 
 shall be able to give j'ou a copy of my letter to Dr. Darley, and not merely the minute of 
 the Board, because copies of all our letters are entered in our books. Yv^e have three 
 classes of letter-books, for solicitors, Government, and miscellaneous letters. 
 
 21281. We want a copy of that minute, or the original document, and all letters that 
 were written in consequence of that minute ? — You can have the original complaint, if 
 complaint it was, a copy of the minute, and a copy of the order issued upon that minute. 
 
 21282. Eev. Dr. Graves — Is the same freedom with regard to religious instruction 
 maintained in the tenantry schools under the management of the Board ? — I have no 
 reason to suppose it is not. There has been no complaint made ; and, generally speaking, 
 amongst the tenantry there are more of the Eoman Catholic religion than any other. 
 Roman Catliolics or Presbyterians preponderate in almost all the tenantiy schools. 
 
 21280. Is the Kilbricken school under the National Board of Education? — It is a non- 
 vested school. 
 
 21281. If so, you must answer my question in the affirmative with reference to that 
 school — that the freedom of religious instruction was secured '? — Oh, yes; it is anon- vested 
 school under the National Board of Education. Mr. Stephens has asked for tl;e minute 
 in reference to Dungannon. I can read it now. 
 
 21285. Jlr. S/c'jihe//.s. — The date of that letter, Dr. Kyle, if you please? — It ajipears on 
 the minutes of the 2iid of May, 1848 : " Dr. Elrington read a letter to him, as a number of 
 the Board, from Mr. Caulfield, of Armagh, stating that he had made application to Dr. 
 Darley for free instruction for a youth of the Roman Catholic belief; that Dr. Darley 
 had stated that all boys at the Dungannon Royal school must every day attend the 
 reading of a chapter of the Bible, which was followed by a lecture grounded thereon ; and 
 inquiring whether this course was sanctioned by the Board, as it must virtually exclude 
 from tlie benefit of the school all but Church of England Protest;!nts. 
 
 " OiiDERKD — That the secretary do write to Dr. Darley, stating that the .'\bove circum- 
 stance had been submitted to the consideration of the Commissioners, and calling upon 
 him to show by what authority he enforced a regulation which must exclude all but the 
 Church of England i'l'otestants.'' This minute was followed by one of the Iflth of iJay, 
 1848, as follows : " Read a letter from the Rev. J. R. Darley, in reply to that of the secretary, 
 stating that he had been appointed master in 1831 by the Priuiate: that he had never 
 received any directions, either from the Primate or from the Commissioners, with respect 
 to the religious instruction of his pupils ; that he had been left free in that respect ; that, 
 as a clergyman, he felt it his duty to impart Scriptural instruction to all his pupils ; that 
 the Commissioners make the whole Scriptures part of the course necessary for a Royal 
 scholarship ; that his arrangement was this: — School opens each morning at seven o'clock 
 with a short prayer. On resuming school, after breakfast, at quarter past ten o'clock, the 
 
 Vol. II. * P 
 
 Dl'DLIN. 
 
 Thr Commoiswuert 
 
 of Kdiicativn in 
 
 Irelutul, Clarc-slrtet, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 \V. C. Kyle, LL.o.
 
 106 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Commissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C. Kyle, ll.d. 
 
 boys sin" a psalm, read the General Confession, the Lord's Prayer, the short sentences 
 before the collects for grace and peace, tliose two collects, and the Grace of our Lord. 
 One of the boys reads (each in turn) a portion of the old Testament (through which they 
 CO regularly) which Dr. Darley explains to the boys. They then sing another psalm ; 
 Dr. Darley then concludes with the Grace of our Lord. Evening school is closed before 
 they retire to bed, with reading and explanation of the New Testament in regular order, 
 and prayer. 
 
 " Dr. Darley states that this system of religions instruction has never in a single 
 instance excluded any boy, of any religious denomination whatever ; that he has had, and at 
 present has, Presbyterians and other Dissenters ; that there never was a boy excluded from 
 the school in consequence of his dechning to receive the Scriptural instruction he imparts. 
 
 " That he is aware of the case which has recently occurred ; that admission was sought 
 for a boy, as a free day boj% who has no connexion with the town or neighbourhood, but 
 living at a distance, for the purpose of his being prepared for a Royal scholarship, whilst 
 at the same time it was demanded that he should not receive any instruction in the 
 Scriptures ; that this is incompatible with the rules for Royal schools, <and that he was 
 not aware of any obligation on him to receive as free every boj', from no matter where ho 
 came, or what part of the country he belongs to. 
 
 " Ordered — That Mr. Darley be informed, that the Annual Reports of this Board to 
 Government, which are published, have stated that the Royal scholarships in the univer- 
 sity are attainable lij- candidates of all religious denominations ; that it is a knowledge of 
 ancient history alone, as contained in the Old and New Testament, that is required as 
 one of the qualifications for a Royal scholarship ; and that, therefore, with a view to 
 having the Royal schools opened to persons of all religious denominations, this Board 
 orders that no course of religious instruction which would exclude persons of any religious 
 persuasion shall be compulsory on any pupil or pupils who may be desirous of attending 
 the Royal schools ; and ordered that Mr. Darley do take steps to make this decision of 
 the Board generally known." 
 
 2128G. Has that minute been rescinded by any subsequent minute ? — Oh, no ; and if 
 I am not much mistaken, a similar order was given verbally to one of the masters of 
 another of the Royal schools, about twenty years ago, when an investigation took place 
 in the school-room. The master left the school, but that order is in force. Dr. Daidey 
 made a mistake. There is a great difference between the Old and New Testaments as a 
 history, and the doctrines deducible from the Old and New Testament. They are two 
 distinct things, and the Commissioners intended that they should be so. As a matter of 
 history, they are known to Roman Catholics just as well as Protestants, and probably better. 
 
 21287. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Is there any restriction as regards the religion of the masters, 
 or assistant-masters, employed in the schools ? — The Commissioners have nothing to say to 
 the appointment of the masters or assistants. It is altogether with other parties, which is 
 one of the defects of the system. A Mohammedan might be appointed, so far as the inter- 
 ference of the Board is concerned. 
 
 21288. In the minutes of your Board, under the 13th of April, 1821, it is stated, with 
 reference to the Midleton school, " That in case the affairs of the said school be before this 
 Board, and not that of Charitable Donations, certain steps should be taken." I desire to 
 know whether conflicts of jurisdiction between your Board and that of Charitable Dona- 
 tions have ever taken place ? — Not that I am aware of. 
 
 21289. I am asking, did there, as a matter of fact ? — I am not aware of any. 
 
 21200. I do not ask your opinion whether conflicts may arise ? — I am not aware of any con- 
 flicts having arisen since my connexion with the Board ; but there may have been before my 
 time. 
 
 21291. Have any complaints been brought before your Board with regard to lapsed 
 endowments for school purposes ? — I do not recollect that there have. 
 
 21292. Have applications been made to place under your manngement schools which 
 had not been previously in connexion with the Board, and wliich you refused to receive 
 into connexion ? — I do not recollect there have been. 1 think I woidd remember it if such 
 a case occurred in my time, but I do not recollect it. If any case suggests itself to the 
 Commissioners, perhaps tlioy might refer me to it. 
 
 21293. I am not asking the question with reference to any particular case. 
 
 21294. By the 53rd section of the Act of Parliament constituting the Board, the Com- 
 missioners mny apply to the Court of Chancery to enforce their orders nnd regulations. In 
 how many cases has the Board made an order such as is referred to in tliat section ? — That 
 refers to schools of private foundation. I am not aware of any application having been 
 made in my time to enforce any regulation. There was an application made to the Chan- 
 cellor to grant a superannuation in the case of a private school. 
 
 2129.'5. Was that tlie Tullyvin school ? — Yes, there was an application made there ; but 
 that does not seem to be exactly the case contemplated by the Act. 
 
 21290. In point of fact, the Commissioners have been found less active in theafl'airsof 
 schools of private foundation wliich are in connexion with them than in the afl'airs of the 
 Royal scliools ? — Generally speaking. 
 
 21297. I think I understood you to say just now, that some of the diocesan, or district 
 schools, were not in operation ? — Several of them are not in operation. 
 
 21298. Can you mention the names of those which are not now in operation ? — Cloyne 
 is not in operation. 'I'lic right of appointment is with the Government ; and the vacancy 
 has been notified more than once to the Government, but they have not appointed.
 
 EVIDENCE. 107 
 
 21209. How loiii;; has it I)ecn vacant? — Some tliree or four years; and Dultlin, as I know, Dubliw. 
 
 ii not in operation _ _ , , , , The ci^issioner, 
 
 21300. Is \\icklowm operation? — Wicldow is not a diocesan scliool ; but there was a „fEduraiioniu 
 diocesan school held there. Inland, Clare-ureei, 
 
 2i;501. Was that t!u> Duljliu and Glendalough school?— Yes. There arc special exceptions Dublin. 
 
 in tiie Act of I'arliaineiit, autliorizing the Archbishop of Duljlin, the P.ishop of Kihlarc, and ^- ^- '^y'*^' '•''•"• 
 two other hisliops wliose dioceses I do not recollect now, to a])])oiiit the masters. In tlie 
 Other cases, the ai)pointmei)t is with the Lord Lieutenant. Wlien Wicklow became vacant, 
 a good many years ago, ajjjilication was made to tlie Archbishop of Dublin to exercise his 
 patronage, but he declined to do so. 
 
 21302. Tlie sidiool, then, in that district has been left vacant in consequence of the 
 Archbislioj) of Dublin not liaving a])pointed a master? — It is in abeyance; and often the 
 diocesan schools are )u>t as efficient as they onglit to l)e. 
 
 21303. Are you aware whetlier the salary of the master has been allowed to accrue for 
 the benefit of the school ? — Certainly not, because there is no reci])ient for it. The master 
 is the only person who can receive it. The salaries of all the diocesan schoolmasters arc 
 paid, in certain proportions, by the diocesan and by the clergy. 
 
 21304. How long h;is the vacancy existed? — I think since 1839; at all events it cannot 
 be much longer tiian tliat, for the vacancy occurred since my connexion with the Board. 
 
 21305. Mr. Slephcm. — Then, if the Archbishop of Dublin refuses, or neglects to appoint, 
 the clergy pay no tax? — I take it for granted that is the necessary consequence ; but I 
 know of no mode of enforcing payment but one, and that is an application by the diocesan 
 schoolmaster to sequester the living of the party who does not pay. Generally s])eaking, I 
 believe, the salaries of the diocesan schoolmasters ai'e very irregularly and unsatisfactorily 
 jiaid ; and the mode of enforcing payment is certainly a very awkward one. In some cases 
 the payment only amounts to a few shillings. 
 
 2130G. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Does it frequently happen, when the mastership of any of the 
 diocesan schools becomes vacant, that the place remains vacant for a considerable time ? — 
 The Commissioner has asked me, when a mastership becomes vacant, does it remain a long 
 time vacant 
 
 21307. Does it often remain vacant for a considerable time? — I could not say that it 
 frequently haj)])cns, but it has happened. 
 
 21308. Have you known any instance of the kind occurring? — There is the case, at tliis 
 moment, of Cloyne diocesan school, at Mallow, which has been a considerable time vacant, 
 and not a])])ointed to. 
 
 21309. What is the Hite of the school during the vacancy of the mastership? — There is no 
 schoolhouse, and there is no master. 
 
 21310. Is there no schoolhouse at Mallow? — I do not know, unless I refer to the returns, 
 which are not before me. I should state, that the three schools of Cork were made distinct 
 diocesan schools. Before I became connected with the Board, but one existed for the three 
 dioceses ; and after I became secretary, pursuant to the powers of the Act of Parliament, and on 
 the suggestion, I believe, of the bishop at the time, the schools were disunited. It was found 
 that it was better to have them in different localities ; and, pm-suant to the Act of William 
 IV., they were disunited by the Board; and after that this vacancy occmred. 
 
 21311. Is it the case that several of the diocesan schools are without schoolhouses ? — 
 It is the case ; and if the Commissioners will refer to the annual reports, furnished piu-suant 
 to the Act of Parliament to the Government, they will find almost constant reference to the 
 very unsatisfactory state of the diocesan schools. It is a subject wliich the Board has felt to 
 be veiy unsatisfactory, and they introduce it uniformly, or at least frequently, into their 
 annual reports. 
 
 21312. Does not the principal difficulty in the management of the affairs of the diocesan 
 schools arise from the fact tliat there is no means of securing house accommodation for the 
 scholars? — That is one of the principal difficulties; because there are no funds for either 
 erecting or repairing the diocesan schools, except what the grand juries of the respective 
 counties choose to present against themselves, and which they do not choose to present, 
 consequently the houses, in most cases, are falling to ruin. 
 
 21313. In the first place it is not comj)ulsory on them? — It is optional; and perhaps they 
 do not wish to tax themselves ; or perhaps country gentlemen do not feel the necessity for 
 these diocesan schools, or do not care for them. 
 
 21314. In the next place, has not the difficulty arisen fi'om the union of different dioceses 
 into one district, whilst the repairs of the schoolhouse devolved upon different counties ? — 
 That might be prevented. It is a mere matter of arrangement, because they could present 
 in a fair pro])ortion, if the grand juries were inclined to do it. 
 
 2131.'). The difficulty in obtaining presentments is increased by the fact that you must 
 not only Ikhc the consent of one grand jiu'v, but the agreement of two or three grand 
 juries? — I think that difficidty might be got rid of if the grand juries ascertained what their 
 respective proportions were. One grand jury might present for £50, another for £100, and 
 so on, so as to make \x\^ the required sum ; but thev will not tax themselves, and there is 
 no means of comjielling them. The case of the Limerick diocesan school which was referred 
 to, shows the difficulties we had to contend with. 
 
 21316. Have the Connnissioners taken any further steps beyond noticing this evil in their 
 annual reports — have they ajijilied to Government or to Parliament for anj- alteration or 
 increase of their powers, or any alteration of the Acts of Parhament relative to this matter? 
 — I believe, previous to my connexion with the Board, there was an application to extend 
 
 Vol. II. ' P 2
 
 108 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DCBL7>1. 
 
 I'lie Commhtiionci'ii 
 
 of Edtwation in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-i'tri ft, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 \Y. C. Kyle. li..i>. 
 
 the powers of the Board; but how they wore inteiulod to affect the diocesan schools I do 
 not know. Since my time, the Board consilei'ed they were discharging their duty by 
 bringing the matter frequently under the notice of the Government, in the hope that the 
 (iovernnient would feel bound to taiie the matter uji. I think that was the reason they 
 particularly introduced the sidiject into their annual reports. 
 
 21317. One cause of the inefficient state of the diocesan schools is the want of means 
 either to build schoolhouses or keep them in repair? — That is one cause. 
 
 21318. Are the salaries provided for the diocesan schoolmasters in all cases adequate? — I 
 think they are not — they are very badly j)aid; the proportion in some cases is very small. 
 Some of them have only £20 a-year. I thiidv the master of the Raphoe school has about 
 £20 a-year. so far as I can state from recollection. 
 
 21311). You have stated, that the salaries of the diocesan schoolmasters are, in many 
 instances, badly paid: what is the mode in which they receive their salaries? — The mode 
 in which they ought to receive them is this: there is a certain sum by law fixed on the 
 parishes, of which the diocesan bishop pavs one-third, and the clergy two-thirds. In some 
 cases it has been reported by the masters that the proportions paid by the different clergy 
 run down to very small sums — sometimes to a few shillings, and sometimes even less ; 
 and that it is almost impossible to collect them from them. The only mode of enfoi'cing 
 ]iaynient is by sequestration of the living, to which the bishoji is unwilling to have recourse; 
 in fict, the whole system connected with diocesan schools is generally felt to be very 
 unsatisfactory. 
 
 21320. Was not the state of the diocesan schools very imsatistactory at the time that the 
 Board of Commissioners of Education was constituted by the 53rd of George III? — Oh, no 
 doubt it was ; and I think, from some circumstances which have come to my own knowledge, 
 that long before that the state of the diocesan schools was most unsatisfactory — tl'.;it it was 
 felt, that they had filled to cH'ect the objects for which they were originally instituted by the 
 statute of Elizabeth; in fact, schools were never established in some dioceses. 
 
 21321. Do you state that the Commissioners a]>pointed under the Act of .53rd George III. 
 had not jiower to remedy the evils of which you now complain ? — Although that is a matter 
 of law, still I have no hesitation in saying that the Connnissioners are quite sure they have 
 not the ])ower of raising funds either to build schools or prevent them from falling into 
 ruin, or, in fact, to carry the system into operation at all. 
 
 21322. They have this evil continually brought under their notice? — They ha\e; because 
 the periodical reports made to them by the masters very frequently state that the houses are 
 going to rnin, and that they have no means to repair them, and so on. The Commissioners 
 testify, by their annual reports, that the system is most unsatisfactory, and that is done with 
 the view of calling the attentinu of Govermnent to it, for these reports are presented to 
 Parliament and jiublishcd. 
 
 21323. Can you state, from recollection, whether the number of persons educated in the 
 diocesan schools has fallen off since these schools were jilaced under the control of the 
 Commissioners? — I cannot state that without reference to returns. 
 
 21324. Are there any hindrances in the way of Roman Catholic pupils receiving instruc- 
 tion in the diocesan schools ?— I am not aware. 
 
 21325. Have complaints been made to the Board to the effect, that Roman Catholic 
 jiupils have been excluded in consequence of the operation of rules with regard to the 
 religious instruction given in the diocesan schools ?^ — 1 do not remendier that there have. 
 
 21326. Are the masters of the diocesan schools, in all instances, clergymen of the 
 Estiiblished Church? — 1 think not in all instances; but in the \ast majority of instances 
 they are. 
 
 21327. Are you aware wl'.eiher there is any restriction as to the religion of the masters? — 
 I do not know any thing about that. Their apfiointment does not rest with the Board; 
 and, of course, they wi're not the ])ersons to look to that. 1 do not think the Act of 
 I'arliamciit |i(iints (jut anv jjarticular class of persons from which the ^^•hll(llnlasters should 
 be taken. 
 
 21328. The Commissioners being aware that, generally speaking, the diocesan schools 
 are not in an efficient state, have they held any visitations to inquire into the condition of 
 these schools? — No visitation, projierly so called. The course jiointed out by the Act of 
 Parliament in this resjiect entails c(jnsi(lerai)lc exj)ense, and there are no funds under 
 the control of the I'loard ajiplicable to such a ]iur]iose; but there ha\e been investigations. 
 
 21329. Might they not a])])oint assistant-connnissioners under the 53rd of Cieorge 111., chap. 
 107, and charge the costs of their ajipointnient iqxm the Consolidated Fund? — They might 
 apply by jietition to have these costs chai'ged u|Min the Consolidated Fund; but whether 
 the a]ip!icatiiiii would be granted or not I cannot sa\'. 
 
 21330. Have the \isitors a]>pointed by the I'nard of Commissioners of Education acted in 
 all cases gratuitiously ?. — Oh, 1 never hcaid of anyboily being |iaid. 1 was myself, with 
 others, once or twice dejjutcd to hold visitations at schools, and our travelling exi)enses were 
 jiaid, but nothing more. 
 
 21331. You mentioned that the nundier of visitations held by (jrder of the Connnissioners 
 has been very small? — I think, six or seven — perhaps si.\. 
 
 2l:i32. Since the year 1835?— Since 1835. 
 
 21333. Perhaps you can now re]>ly to the question I beiore ])ut with reli'reiu-e to the 
 inuiibcr of jiupils in tlie diocesan schools, ]irevious to tin; estalilishmeiit of the Pionrd of 
 ( 'onnuissioners, .and at the time the last return was made ? — I will answer that ([uestiou now : 
 It appears by the Appendix to the Fourtli Kej)ort from the Commissioners of the Board of
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 109 
 
 Ediicatidii in Irt'laiid, dafod ISO!), tliat tlic iiiind)cr (if piijiils in atteiidMiicc at the di(JCo.san 
 sciiool uiiiouiitod to -tlf); and it apjicars \>y tiic last I'c'tnnis made to nu? in .huu,', IH,').'), that 
 the number then reported by the masters to lie in attendance amounted to iil2. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 T/ie Commisftioriers 
 I'f RdiicaCion in 
 
 213"54. Then, in fact, during that period tiie niunber of pupils in the diocesan seiiools lias Irelumt, Clare-ktreet, 
 diminished twenty-five per cent.? — It lias diminished about 100, or one or two less. Duhlin. 
 
 SKiHJJ. Some of the sehoolhouses are in a worst- condition tlian lliey were then'::' — Some ^^'- ^- %'<-*> '■'-•d- 
 of them liave ceased to exist since that former I'eturn. 
 
 :iIi').'iG. Are ^ou of opinion that a system of \isitation and ins]K'cti<in, tlirou;j;h the a^'ency 
 of ]iersons resident in the neighbourhood of the schools, could be carriecj on ettectively? 
 — It would be eli'ective; but 1 do not think it would be at all so effective as an inspection 
 carried on bv persons who were in the habit of going from one school to another. Such 
 ))ersons a(n|uire the method of doing it, and are loss connected with the locality, and there- 
 fore less subject to be influenced in the discharge of their duty. I think there would lie a 
 great objection to have a visitation held by jiersons li\ ing in the neighbourhood, as they would 
 not like, perhaps, ti5 do things which might be unpleasant to the masters; but ])ersons whose 
 duty it is to do it, and who are in the habit of doing it, would act a great deal better. 
 
 213o7. Have yoii considered the distrilnitioii of the existing schools over the face of 
 Ireland? — With respect to locality. 
 
 21.'i.')8. As to the locality of the scliools, taken in connexion :\itli the jiopulation of the 
 adjoining district and the educational wants of the dilferent parts of the country? — I have 
 not considered tiie subject carefully, but I have no d(3ubt that tlie distribution at jircsent is 
 not the best. I tliink it luight be greatly imjn'oved. 
 
 21339. The most efficient schools under your Board are all congregated together in one 
 part of the country? — I think they are, in the north. 
 
 21340. If there existed a central board, having the command of fumls sufficient to enable 
 them to administer a general system of school education, might it not be advisable to provide 
 for the establishment (jr maintenance ofasu]ierior class of schools in jiarts of the country which 
 are now destitute of educational advantages? — If it had sufficient funds, and was an active 
 board, and had a sufficiently large staff to carry out its objects, there is not a doubt it would 
 be an advantage; but I think it would require a large staff, and ample funds. These being 
 provided, such a ju'oject would not only be possible, but its adoption would be very 
 advisal)le. 
 
 21341. Does it ap])ear to you that a due distribution of schools throughout the country 
 can only be accom]ilished by a board having extensive powers and large funds at its dis- 
 ])osal ? — Certaudy ; 1 think it could not be done without amjile funds, and active Coni- 
 niissioners, who would devote their time and attention to it. 
 
 21342. Do you mean persons who could give their undivided attention? — I think, to do 
 the thing elficiently they should almost give their undivided attention ; it certainly should 
 be their principal duty. 
 
 21343. Is it vouv opinion that a board of connnissioners charged with sucli very important 
 duties should consist of a small number of individuals? — Not very small. I think it would 
 be necessary to have an efficient number, because some might be sick, or might have to 
 apportion, perhaps, their labours into difl'erent sections. I would not have too small a num- 
 ber. I alwavs find in committees and ]iublic bodies that small numbers work better than 
 large ones ; and vou will find that one or two persons generally do the entire work. That 
 is my experience. 
 
 21344. Dr. Kyle, the Conmiissioners will not trouble you with any further questions now, 
 hut Mr. Stephens will resume your examination to-morrow morning, at eleven o'clock? — I 
 shall be in attendance.
 
 110 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The CoTiiiiiissioners 
 
 of Kducation in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C. Kyle, ll.d. 
 
 Dublin, December 21, 1855. 
 
 Present : — Rev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, Mr. Stephens, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The CoMMissroNERs of Education in Ireland, Clare-.street, Dublin — (continued). 
 
 William Cutter Kyle, ll.d., fiu-ther exiimiaed. 
 
 21345. Rev. Dr. Graves. — I ask you now. Dr. Kyle, to state distinctly the views that you 
 entertain with regard to the power the Board ought to have to superannuate masters? — 
 1 think it is absokitely necessary there should l)e superannuation both for masters and the 
 ushers. The want of it, I am aware, has been injurious to some of the scliools. 
 
 21346. You state that inconvenience has resulted from the want of the power of super- 
 annuating in some particular instances ? — In two or three instances superannviation allowances 
 were applied for, and the Commissioners were obliged to say it was not in then- jiower to 
 grant them, however desirable they might be. In the case of the Armagh school. Dr. Millar 
 could have retired before lie did, if the Board had the power of ordering an allowance ; and 
 also there is the case of Dr. Dowdall, who became a lunatic, but he could not get a 
 superannuation. So I think it absolutely necessary there should be superannuation allowances. 
 
 21347. The existence of such an aiTangement would form an inducement to persons to apply 
 themselves to scholastic pursuits? — At present a man must work on until he dies, unless he 
 has made sufficient to allow him to retire. You demanded from me yesterday a return of 
 the attendance of the Commissioners of the Board, in continuation of a retm-n made to the 
 order of the House of Commons, and printed May, 1850; I now hand to the Secretary a 
 return of the names of the Commissioners, with their attendance at the difi'erent meetings 
 from that time uj) to the present day. 
 
 21348. Is the retiu'n in such a form as to present us with the general result, and the 
 nature of the average attendance ? — You have the actual fact. I was desired to prepare it 
 in continuation of the Parliamentary paper, M-liich I prepared myself for the House of 
 Commons ; and I did it exactly following that paper in continuation. It gives the dates of 
 all the meetings, and the number of persons actually in attendance at each Board. I also 
 have a return of the diocesan schools at present in operation, with the salaries of the 
 mastei's attached thereto, pursuant to the Act of Parliament. I also propose to lay on the 
 table the details of the income for 1854 of the Royal schools, the diocesan schools, and the 
 schools of private foundation. 
 
 21349. Perhaps, you would be so good as to hand in those documents in continuation of 
 the accounts of which they form a part. [Documents are handed in.] 
 
 21350. Do the returns show the total annual income for 1854 from all the Royal schools, 
 distinguisliing the amount arising from personal property, and that arising from land? — Yes. 
 
 21351. Would you be so good as to state the gross amounts? — The gross amount arising 
 from the land attached to the Royal schools was, in 1854, £4,821 17s. Ad. ; that arising from 
 personal property, nothing. The total annual income, in 1854, from all schools of private 
 endowment, was, from land, £1,247 lis. 6d. ; and fi-om personal property, £'649 14s. 2d. 
 The total annual income, in 1854, from all diocesan schools was £30 5s. 6rf., all from personal 
 property. 
 
 21352. Mr. StcpJu'ii.i. — I believe the diocesan school of Wicklow has been vacant since 
 1839? — I believe so; lam not aware of any appointment having taken j)lace since the 
 decease of the late master, which occurred somewliere about 1838, or 1839. 
 
 21353. Will the minutes show that? — ^Yes. 
 
 21354. What was the salarv allowed to the master under the order of the 17th of April, 
 1824?— I think, £55 for Dublin and £55 for Glendalough. 
 
 21355. In the return which I have before me it is £55 and £45? — You are quite riglit. 
 
 21356. Then it is £100?— Yes. 
 
 21357. You have handed in a list giving an account of the several diocesan schools in 
 operation, will you be so kind as to tell me the schools that arc not in operation ? — The first 
 that I find is Dublin and Glendalough. Tiie next I find vacant is Cashel and Emly. 
 
 21358. What is the income of that? — One hun(h"ed ])ounds. Tlie next is Ardfert and 
 Aghadoe. 
 
 21 359 What is the income of that? — Eighty ])oumls. Clo^aie is the )iext ; the income of 
 which is £100 a-year. The next is Waterford and Lismorc;£90. Tiie next, Killaia and 
 Achonry ; £50. And the next is Clonfort and Kiimacduagh ; £40. Tuam is at present 
 vacant, Ijut it has only become vacant a few days ago, ancl the vacancy was notified by 
 me to the Lord Lieutenant. 
 
 31360 Wlio ouglit to pay the salaries of tlie masters of these scliools which you say arc 
 not in operation? — The act |)rcs('rih(w, that in all cases the diocesan shall pay tme-third, and 
 the iKMieficcd clergy tlie otlier two-tliirds. 
 
 213()1. Has tiie bisliop or have the clergy paid these sums during the last twenty years? 
 — I do not know, for this simple reason, because the salaries never come through my 15oard. 
 They are paid directly to the masters, if tiiey are paid at all; but the obvious inference is, 
 tiiat tliey have not been paid, because there are no j)crsons to receive them. 
 
 21362. If I understand you aright, no master has been ajjpointed to Dublin and Glen- 
 dalough since 1839? — Since about that time. 
 
 213();). lliis any master been a]ij)ointe(l to Cashel since your appointment in 1835? — I 
 never heard of any. 
 
 21364. Has any master been appointed to Ardfert since your appointment? — No.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 Ill 
 
 21365. Has there been a master appointed to Cloyne ? — Yes. 
 21300. How long has it been vacant ? — Three or four years. 
 
 21307. Can you give me tlic precise date at whicii the vacancj' occurred at Cloyne ? — I 
 will furnish you with the date when tlie vacancy was reported to me. 
 
 21308. [Secrelari/ hands papers.] — I am now able to state that I am satisfied the diocesan 
 school of Dublin and Glendalough lias been vacant since 1839. 
 
 2130!). It appeai-s to me that the facts of the case in respect of Wicklow are these. 
 The mastership of the diocesan school at Wicklow, with a salary attached to it of £lOO 
 per annum, has been vacant since 183!) ; that the Archbishop of Dublin has the appoint- 
 ment of the master, but that he has not exercised such riglit of api)ointnient, in conse- 
 quence of which the school has not been in operation ; and that the Archbishop, who vvas 
 bound to pay one-third, and the clergy of the united diocese of Dublin and Glendalough, 
 who were bound to contribute two-thirds to the salary of the master, have not been called 
 upon to pay their respective quotas since 183!), thereby withdrawing from educational pur- 
 poses a sum of £1,000. It also appears that under Stat. 53 George 111., chap 1 07, amended 
 by Stat. 3 George IV., chap. 79, the Commissioners of Education in Ii'eland are em- 
 powered, with the consent of the Lord Lieutenant, to direct that any two or more adjoin- 
 ing dioceses shall be united into one district ; and that the free schools of such dioceses 
 shall be constituted into one free school, to be held in such place as the Commissioners 
 and Loi'd Lieutenant shall direct. By the 24th section the Lord Lieutenant in Council 
 can appoint what salary was to be paid to the schoolmaster of every diocesan or district 
 school, and what ])ortion of it was to be paid in every diocese of any such districts where 
 such district school was established. The Act then proceeds to state by whom the salaries 
 of the schoolmasters were to be paid, viz. : — one-third was to be paid by the bishops 
 in their respective dioceses, and the remaining two-thirds were to be levied oji, and paid 
 by the parsons, vicars, prebendaries, and other ecclesiastical persons in the diocese, by an 
 equal contribution, according to the values of their respective benefices, to be from time 
 to time ascertained by the bishop of the diocese, with the consent and concurrence of the 
 archbishop of the province in whicli the diocese was situate. It appears, that in conse- 
 quence of the recommendation of the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, and in 
 pursuance of Stat. 53 George III., chap. 107, the Lord Lieutenant, by notice in the Dublin 
 Gazette, dated April 17th, 1824, appointed annual salaries to be paid to certain school- 
 masters of diocesan and district schools, it also appears that the following district 
 diocesan schools, for which salaries were appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, namely : — 
 Cashel, £100 ; Ardfert and Aghadoe, £80 ; Waterford and Lismore, £90 ; Clonfert and 
 Kilmacduagh, £40 ; and Killala and Achonry, i^50 ; making in the aggregate, £360 — 
 have not been in operation for upwards of twenty years. And that Clojme, with a salary 
 of £100, has not been in operation for five years ; and that Wicklow, with a salary of £100, 
 has not been in operation for sixteen years. These salaries have never been raised or paid ; 
 and thus a sum of £!),000 has, within the last twenty years, been illegally withdrawn from 
 the i^urposes of education. 
 
 21370. It was the duty of the Commissioners of Education to have called on those 
 persons who were intrusted with the appointment of the masters to fill up the vacant 
 masterships of the schools of Dublin and Wicklow, Killala, Clonfert, and Cloyne; and in 
 case of their neglecting to make such appointments, the Commissioners should have 
 applied to the Court of Queen's Bench for a mandamus to have compelled them. The 
 facts before us indicate that the system of diocesan schools has been less and less efficient. 
 The number of schools in operation has diminished ; a considerable portion of the funds 
 available for their maintenance has been unlevied, and the number of pupils educated in 
 them has declined to three-fourths of what it was in 1810. — I might be allowed to say a 
 word with reference to that. I am not going to controvert what you have said, because I 
 believe the facts are as you have stated ; but I do not know the Commissioners have taken 
 into consideration one fact as strongly as I intended to put it, and that is, that it was 
 always admitted, and put prominently forward before the Government, in every report of 
 the Commissioners which I have ever read, that these schools were inefficient and ineffec- 
 tive. In the year 1809 there was an exceedingly strong report on that subject, stating 
 that there were only thirteen diocesan schools, out of twenty-two dioceses in Ireland, and 
 it has constantly been brought forward, that the system was inefficient, bad, and inoperative. 
 
 21371. That only applies to 1809, but how do you get over the recommendation made by 
 the Commissioners to the Lord Lieutenant in 1821, and who made the order I have referred 
 to ? — It is very probable from that time down— I know since my connexion with the Board, 
 it has been the case — the Commissioners have very frequently brought that fact before 
 the Government, with a view of inducing them to interfere. 
 
 21372. I want to ask you a few questions respecting the accoimts ; will you turn to the 
 book entitled law agent's costs, volume tln-ee, and read the date of the last entrv in that 
 book ?— Fifth of April, 1842. 
 
 21373. How long have the law agent's costs been in arrear ? — From this accoimt it would 
 appear that nothing was paid for thirteen years. 
 
 21374. Does your law agent attend the Board every meeting? — He does. There may 
 be one or two exceptions, but that is the rule. 
 
 21375. How do you account for this arrear in your books? — It has been caused by hesi- 
 tation on their part, in not furnishing their accounts. The funds in the possession of the 
 Commissioners became about 1845, or 1840, very scanty, indeed, and they have not pressed 
 for their accounts. I know in one special report made to the House of Commons by the 
 
 DUBLIW. 
 
 TliK Cammissionert 
 
 of Kdticativn in 
 
 Ireland. (Uarc-ttrcct, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C. Kyle, ll.d.
 
 112 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin^. 
 
 The Commisshners 
 
 of Kduration in 
 
 Ireland, Clarc-str^tt, 
 
 DiAlm. 
 
 TV. C. Kj-le, LL.D. 
 
 solicitors themselves, tliey stated they had postponed furnishing a hill of costs, in conse- 
 ciuence of tlieir knowleclge that the funds under the control of the Board were insufficient. 
 21370. Has any hill of costs heen furnished ? — Not since the date of the last entry. 
 
 21377. To what fund are the costs of the law agent's attendances at each meeting of tlie 
 Board charged ? — They are divided amongst the scbools that have funds under the control 
 of the Commissioners rateahly ; 13,s. 4rf. is what thej' charge for each attendance. 
 
 21378. You have net been enabled, in consequence of the accounts not having been 
 furnished, to bring tliose charges forward annually in yom- accounts ? — Certainly not. 
 
 21370. Have you any idea at the present moment what your attorney's bill of costs may 
 be for the last thirteen years ? — I have not. 
 
 21380. Has he received payment on account of costs for the last thirteen years ? — That 
 is not the habit of the Board. I never knew them to pay on account of costs. 
 
 21381. The first date in the book appears to be November Gth, 1838, and the latest date 
 appears to be in June, 1840, £-512 12s. 10^. Is not that previous to the date you referred 
 to ?— Yes. 
 
 21382. How many years is that hill of costs for ? — Two years. 
 
 21383. From what period to what period does that bill of costs extend ? — The ques- 
 tion which the Commissioner has put to me will scarcely elicit the answer that he wants, 
 because 
 
 21384. "What answer do I want. Dr. Kjde ? — I presume the answer you want is, what 
 the average annual expcnditui'e for costs was. The first entry and the last entry refer to 
 diiferent periods altogether. 
 
 21385. It, however, is a fact, that your attorney for the last thirteen years has not 
 furnished you with his bill of costs, and that you have not at the present moment the 
 remotest idea as to- the amount ? — Yes ; that is a fact. 
 
 21386. Will you be so kind as to turn to the Cavan school account of 1853 ? — I have 
 the book before me. 
 
 21387. Will you read the annual rental, and the arrears due? — The an-ears due at the 
 passing of the last account were £l,GG3 IC-s. -id. ; and on the other side of the account, the 
 years rent is stated to be £557 7.s-. lid. 
 
 21388. Give me the date ? — At the conclusion of the year 185.^. 
 
 21380. How long have these arrears been accumulating? — For a long series of years, 
 before my connexion with the Board. 
 
 21390. It appears that there are nearly three years' rent due, the rent being £'557. 
 Were there three years' arrears due by all the tenants ? — I stated, as a general jiroposition, 
 that there were three years' arrears due ; but I should state that some of the tenants owed 
 more and some less. 
 
 2] 391. Take the last three years, and state how much that property has been in arrear ? 
 — Do j'ou mean down to the jn'esent time ? 
 
 21392. Down to the present time. In 1838 there appears to have been less than a 
 year's rent due, whereas now, according to your evidence, there are three years' rent due ? 
 — I think I can explain that apparent inconsistency. The reason is this, that in 1838 the 
 agents' accounts were made up to a totally different period from what they are now. They 
 were always a j-ear and a-half in arrear. In 1850 the Commissioners made an order 
 that all the agents should write up the arrears to the immediately preceding gale-day, 
 which had the effect, apparently, though not in reality, of adding a year and a-half of 
 arrears to the rent. 
 
 21393. Will you now be so kind as to turn to the Enniskillen school accoimt ? — For 
 what year ? 
 
 2139-1. Turn to the account for 1854, and tell me the annual rent, and the arrears due 
 on the Enniskillen estate? — On the 1st of November, 1854 ? 
 
 21395. Yes?— £9,231 9.?., and the year's rent is £2,142 12«. lUL 
 
 21390. I perceive from the book before me, that the arrears due on the 1 st of May, 1 845, 
 in respect of the Enniskillen estate were £4,002 17.v. ()d. Hiive these arrears increased 
 between May, 1845, and November, 1851 ? — They appear to have more than doubled. 
 
 21397. Can you account for that? — The account I gave with reference to the Cavan 
 estate will, to a certain extent, apply to the Enniskillen estate. It was tlien the habit of 
 tlie agents to have the accounts a year and a-half in arrear, but they were desired to alter 
 the mode of framing the account, and to charge themselves up to the last gale da}', which 
 was not the custom previously. Thongli, in reality, the arrears were not difi'ercnt, this 
 system made them appear different. There was not, in rcalitj', any larger sum added than 
 did not appear; but, writing them up to the preceding gale day, brought the true state of 
 the case before tlie Board. 
 
 21398. Am I to understand yon to state that in respect of the Enniskillen estates, that 
 the arrears are less now than they were in May, 1845 ? — I do not say so. 
 
 21399. Tlien, they have increased? — I think so. 
 
 21400. You have been twenty years connected with this Board, Dr. Kyle, and will you be 
 so kind as to acquaint mc why tlie arrears are so very great as they are at tlic jn-csent 
 moment in respect of the lOnniskillcn property? — is 10 and 1S17 were periods of great 
 distress in this country, and no rent was paid after that for a considerable period ; which, of 
 c.:>ursc, increased the arrears very much. The tenantry were a very poor tenantry, and 
 during the time that the estates were left to the management of the masters of the Royal 
 schools, wliich was formerly the system, they allowed all sorts of squatters to come from 
 the neighbouring estates who Avere not interested in preserving the property.
 
 EVIDENCE. 113 
 
 21101. I see you have an arrear against tenants liere in May, 18:) 0, of £.3,091 15.s'. fjil. — Dublin. 
 have these arrears been discliargod ? — I slionld think not. , , — : 
 
 21 102. What is the advantage of Iceeping arrears standing against tenants wlio nt^ver !!j- Educattonin^ 
 will or can pay them ? — I thiidt it is a very bad practice, and one which I slionld not In-iand, Ctare-n'.Teei, 
 pursue in my own private capacity. Unhlm. 
 
 2110:i. Are not the estates belonging to the Cavan school and the Enuiskillen school ^^- f''- Kyle, ll.d. 
 under the management of the same agent? — Yes. 
 
 21401. What IS his name? — Mr. Benison. 
 
 21J05. Will you be so kind as to turn, Dr. Kyle, to the Dungannon school account? — 
 That account presents rather a better feature, certainly. 
 
 2110(). Will you state tlie rent and arrears in the year 18.5-1 ? — The last entry here is 
 rent received for one year to tlie 1st of November, IH.'JS, £l,457 2»., to which is to be 
 added bog rent received, £.107 Ov. i'uL, and other items. 
 
 21407. What are the arrears? — There are no arrears. 
 
 21408. Who manages that estate ? — Mr. Wann. 
 
 21409. How do you account for the difference of management that produces three or 
 four years' arrear in one case, and no arrears in the other? — In the first place,t]iat estate, when 
 it was taken up by the Comnnssioners from the former lessee, they sjient an enormous sura 
 of money upon it, and placed it under the care of a very eminent agent, who has since died, 
 and whose clerk Mr. Wann was — a Mr. Blacker ; and I rather think, at that time the 
 Commissioners allowed no arrears to accrue ; they, perhaps, wiped away any arrears that 
 might be due, and started the tenants afresh. They never allowed arrears to accrue 
 there. 
 
 21410. Then, if I understand you, there was a different system of management inirsued 
 in respect of tlie Dungannon property, to what there was in respect of the Knniskillen and 
 Cavan properties? — That may be, but the arrear accrued before my connexion with the Board. 
 
 21411. The one system produces no arrears, and the other produces very great and 
 increasing arrears ? — It is, in my own opinion, a very bad system to keep arrears hanging 
 over tenants — in cases of my own, wliere I have arrears, I wipe them oti'. 
 
 21412. Has the Board ever directed the attention of Mr. Benison to the condition of the 
 Cavan and Enniskillen properties ? — There are constant communications going bacl;ward 
 and forward, and letters to him, and memorials from the tenants. Whenever the rent is 
 about being collected, a number of the tenants there get up memorials to the Board, for 
 the remission of their rents, on account of allowances, and a number of other things, to avoid 
 payingtheir rents. These memorials are sent up to the Board, and go back to Mr. Benison to 
 report on them; and sometimes he is permitted to make allowances, and sometimes he is 
 not ; but that estate has been left, latterly, very much to the superintendence of one of the 
 Commissioners, who resides not far from it, Mr. Porter, who communicates personally 
 on the spot with Mr. Benison, and Mr. Benison takes his directions chiefly from Mr. 
 Porter. 
 
 21413. Has the Board come to any resolution expressing dissatisfaction at the way in 
 which the Cavan and Enniskillen estates have been managed? — I nm not aware of any. 
 
 21414. Then, the Cavan and EnniskiUen estates, if I understand j'ou ariglit, are under 
 the especial management of a member of the Board, that member being Mr. Porter ? — 
 Certainly ; and I know Mr. Porter has lately expressed a very strong opinion, from his 
 own practical knowledge, that the estates are improving, and that a gi-eat deal of good has 
 been done by the Board on these estates ; and I think he would be glad to be examined, to 
 testify that fact. 
 
 21415. I should be glad if Mr. Porter would attend here, and be examined with 
 reference to that point. Mr. Porter was in Enniskillen when the Commissioners were 
 there, but he never oii'ered to be examined. Mr. Benison was examined. — I was not aware 
 what persons the Commissioners examined in the country ; but it was since the Commis- 
 sioners were in Enniskillen Mr. Porter expressed his opinion to me. 
 
 21416. Has Mr. Porter repoi'ted to the Board his own opinion as to the satisfactory 
 state of the Cavan and Enniskillen estates ? — I do not know that he has ever made 
 what I could call a report, stating his satisfaction of the management of them ; but from 
 time to time, both personally at the Board and in writing, he has stated that certain grants 
 which were made from time to time, had been productive of great advantage to the tenantry 
 and to the estates generally. There have been some small prizes given within the last few 
 years for the encouragement of improving tenants. 
 
 21417. Can you give us any information about those premiums? — I have heard Mr. 
 Porter state tluit the premiums, though small, are operating remarkably well. 
 
 21418. Have the Board left the management of these estates principally to Mr. Porter ? 
 — That is probably expressing it ratlier strong. 
 
 2141'J. What are Mr. Porter's relations with the Board as regards those estates ? — He 
 is a member of the Board, and resides in the neighbourhood of those estates. When he is 
 in town, he attends the Board very frequently, and expresses his opinion verbally upon the 
 condition of the estates, and on the petitions and memorials of the tenants, which are 
 extremely numerous, and which become more numerous when they are asked for tlieir rents. 
 Some i>ersons there live by writing these memorials, and they arc referred to j\Ir. Porter, 
 who makes an order upon them. 
 
 21420. Has there been any memorial from Dungannon? — Oh, there have been memo- 
 rials from Dungannon from time to time ; but the agent there is firm and decided, and gene- 
 rally reports against the propriety of yielding to them. Every memorial for reduction or 
 
 Vol. II. ' Q
 
 lU 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELA:ND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin, 
 
 77ie Commissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 W. C. Kyle, ll.d. 
 
 allowance is, as a matter of course, referred to the agent for his report, before any thing 
 is done upon it. Mr. Wann is generally against them, as he is a firm and decided man ; and 
 thei'e are less allowances made tliere than anywhere else. 
 
 31431. Then, I suppose, the person from whom we can acquire the most satisfactory 
 information respecting the mairagement of the Cavan and Enniskillen estates is Mr. 
 Porter ? — I should think that Mr. Porter and the agent could give more information than 
 any other persons. 
 
 21432. We have had the agent already. Then we wiU request the attendance of Mr. 
 Porter on a future day, for I wish to ask him a few questions with respect to these proper- 
 ties. Has Mr. Porter, at any time, communicated an opinion in writing with respect to 
 the management of these properties to the Board ? — I am not quite sure that he has; but 
 if he has, I have it entered. 
 
 21423. If he has, will you be so kind as to allow me to peruse his letters ? — I will, if he 
 has done so ; but I am not quite sure that he has. He generally expresses his opinion 
 verbally at the Board; he writes very little. Any letters that he has written on the 
 subject I shall bring. All documents, of every kind, that come through the office are 
 entered in the books belonging to the respective schools. 
 
 2 1424. We shall have no difficulty, then, in getting these letters, if he has written them ? 
 — Not the slightest. I will search from the time he became a member of the Board, and 
 if he has written letters expressing his approbation of the management of the estates, you 
 shall have copies. 
 
 21435. Are your accounts, Dr. Kyle, kept on a system of double entry? — Most of them, 
 at least those referring to the larger schools are. 
 
 21426. Have you an account posted for each estate ? — Yes. 
 
 21427. Showing the arrears due by each tenant, and an account for each agent? — Yes. 
 
 21428. And also showing the balance due by him? — I should state that latterly we have 
 directed om- agents to account monthly, and lodge their balances monthly. 
 
 31439. You require them to lodge areturnmonthlj'ofthemonthlyreceipts? — Everymonth. 
 
 314;!0. And, if I understand you aright, you post it in the book against them? — Yes ; 
 and that enables us afterwards to check their annual accounts. 
 
 214:31. Then, in point of fact, you have a regular account kept for the Commissioners ? — 
 Certainly ; every school has its separate and distinct account. 
 
 21432. Do your accoimts also show the exact state of each of the trust funds? — They 
 do, and the balance-sheet each year shows the state of each school. 
 
 21433. Then, the annual income and expenditure, and the balance due to or from it, 
 also appears ? — Yes. 
 
 21434. Have j'ou a funded property account? — Yes. 
 
 21435. Does that account show the total sum in the funds belonging to the Commis- 
 sioners, and the proportion belonging to each trust ? — It does. 
 
 2143G. Does it appear at the end of each year from j-our account books what are the 
 assets and liabilities of the Commissioners on account of their general funds and on each 
 particular trust fund ? — It does ; they are kept separately, and on the face of the balance 
 sheet, the liabilities appear ; but the solicitor's costs do not appear. 
 
 21437. With the excejjtiou of your attorney's bUl of costs, your liabilities appear in your 
 books ? — Yes. 
 
 21438. By whom. Dr. Kyle, were you ordered to keep the complete set of accounts that 
 you now have on behalf of the Commissioners of Education ? — I was not ordered at aU. 
 I did not do it in consequence of any order. My accountant and I consulted together, 
 and, in fact, at his suggestion I adopted this plan, 
 
 21439. Who is your accountant ? — Mr. Fleming. He suggested it, and I at once acceded. 
 
 21440. Is Mr. Fleming an accountant? — He is not, perhaps, an accountant; but he 
 is good at accounts. 
 
 21441. He keeps your accounts on a system of double entry ? — He docs ; he introduced 
 it on consultation with me, but it was not tlie habit to do so previously. 
 
 21412. Is it not as easy to keep a set of accoimts on the system of double entry as to 
 keep them in an irregular manner? — The result is simpler. It is more laborious in the 
 first instance, but it proves to be always simpler in the end. 
 
 31443. By keeping your accounts on a system of double entry, you have always your 
 assets and j'our liabilities before you ? — In one moment. 
 
 21444. Or any other return you may be called for ? — ^Yes, 
 
 21445. I see there is a perfect index to your minutes. What staff of clerks do you 
 employ to keep and index j'our minutes, to conduct correspondence in respect of forty 
 schools, and keep your accounts posted to the day by double entry? — I have but one 
 clerk. 
 
 2144 fi. Have you only one clerk to perform such duties? — Yes, and to do'more; because 
 all our letters are copied into three distinct letter books, the miscellaneous letter book, the 
 Government letter book, and the solicitor's letter book ; and every document or letter 
 which comes before the Board is written in the book inider the head of the pai'ticular 
 school to which it belongs. In fact, I have not a sufficiently large staff to carry out the 
 operations as fully as I could wish, but 1 do ns much as I can. I feel the system is not 
 perfect, and I should be inclined to go a great deal further, Mr, Fleming is jjiiid by the 
 Board, I have an annual allowance of xl80 a-year, for wliich I supjjly a cleiii or clerks, 
 as I think ncccessary, and an office. 
 
 21447. Does that include stationery, the rent of your office, and the salary of a clerk?
 
 EVIDENCE. 115 
 
 — The entire of that is incluilecl in tlie £l80. I have not near as large a staff as I should Dublin. 
 
 wish to have. .,„.,. .1 -n , o tt • «• l ^'«-' C^issioncr. 
 
 214 18. Mr. Fleming, you state, is the omcer oi the Board .-' — ile is my onicer, ana uf Education in 
 has been with me upwards of fiftoen years. Ireland, Clarc-stred, 
 
 21449. llev. Dr. Gravex. — I desire to know, Dr. Kyle, whetlierthe minutes of the Board ^ .i>«W'n. 
 
 of Commissioners are kept in your own handwriting? — Yes; and the correspondence, " • ^' ylc i-i-d- 
 which is occasionally immense, I conduct altogether myself. I have a copy of every letter 
 which comes and goes out of the otlice, so that they can be traced any time. They are 
 endorsed too. 
 
 21450. Mr. Stephens. — Dr. Kyle, your accounts arc upon a better system than any which 
 have been laid before us, and reflect great credit upon the office ; but they are susceptible 
 of the following improvements: — The account book which you kecj) should he made a 
 perfect journal, so as to have entered on each day all sums properly receivable or chargeable 
 on account of any trust fund : secondly, your bank account-book shoidd be extended into 
 a perfect ledger by including amongst your accounts those of the law agents, for example, 
 and all other accounts on which any liability or balance exists for or against any trust 
 fund. — I would be most happy to have a copy of those suggestions with the view of carrying 
 them out. 
 
 21451. Rev. Dr. Graves. — The Commissioners feel not the slightest difficulty in acceding 
 to your request. 
 
 21452. Dr. Andrews. — You speak, Dr. Kyle, of communications with the various agents, 
 and with the tenantry, thi-ough the agents, as to rents, and the receipt of rent; are all the 
 reports that the agents have made in your books ? — They are in our- books, but not in our 
 minutes. 
 
 21453. Are there any of them whicla have occurred to you as of special importance in 
 connexion with the management of the estates ? — I think the most satisfactory, and the 
 ones that go most into the working of the estates, have come from the agent of the 
 Dungannon estate. 
 
 21454. Could you, without much trouble, refer to those you consider of most impoi'tance? 
 — I could, if I knew what the Commissioners meant by most important. 
 
 21455. Has any difficulty existed as to the management of the estates, or carrying out 
 the improvements that may have been thought desirable ? — I should say the most valuable 
 reports come from Mr. Wann ; he is the most practical agent I know anywhere. 
 
 21456. Have any reports been made by the law agents on any circumstances connected 
 with the management of the estates ? — Not immediately; but if there is any thing occurring 
 to you, if you would recall it to my recollection, perhaps I might at once give you the 
 information you require. 
 
 21457. Do you remember any report having been made through the law agents, the 
 Messrs. M'Causland, on any particular case? — Perhaps you allude to the Eaphoe school 
 estate. There was certainly a good deal of correspondence about that estate, but I think it 
 occurred before my time. 
 
 21458. Does not something appear on your minutes, in the shape of a report, upon the 
 case of a person named Hanley ? — You are right, there is. There was an investigation 
 held about some complaints which came from the tenants upon the property in the (Queen's 
 County, and this report was made by Mr. il'Causland. 
 
 21459. What Mr. M'Causland ?— Mr. Richard M'Causland, the bai-rister. 
 
 81460. Does that appear on the face of the books ?— I think that special book is in the 
 possession of the Commissioners at present. 
 
 21461. Could you point it out in the minutes ? — It is I'eferred to in the minutes. 
 214G2. Could you refer to the book in which it is contained?— I could. 
 
 21403. Are you aware of any other similar reports made by any person ? — I think there 
 ■was an investigation held by one of the solicitors of the office, with regard to some dispute 
 among the tenants, but I am now only speaking from recollection. All reports of that 
 kind are entered in the books, and if you would be so kind as to direct my attention to 
 any book which is occurring to you, I can at once refer to it. 
 
 21404. The object I had in view was, to see if you remembered any of these reports, in 
 order that you might refer us to them ? — I do not at present remember. 
 
 21405. Would you, if you find among your papers or books, any similar report or reports, 
 be kind enough to draw our attention to them ? — With regard to anj' of the estates '? 
 
 21400. Yes ; with regard to any of the estates ? — In sending up the annual accounts, 
 Mr. Wann always sends up a report. 
 . 21467. Mr. Stephe/is. — There is this question which I omitted to put to you — when 
 were your accounts last audited ? — They are never audited. They are laid on the table, 
 and the Commissioners look over them. The balance sheet is always made out at the end 
 of tlie year, and they look at it, and the account books are on the table, besides, for the 
 chairman and Commissioners to inspect them, but they are never what I call regularly 
 audited; I do not think it ever was the custom of the Board to do so. When I was 
 appointed secretary, on the resignation of my predecessor, I was desired to put mvself in 
 communication with him, and to carry out the system exactly as ho had done. I did so ; 
 I followed out whatever course that had been approved of by the Board, and followed by 
 him. If it is defective, do not object that it is my fault, for I obeyed the directions of the 
 Commissioners. 
 
 21408. You have introduced a good system of accounts ? — I am glad the Commissioners 
 think so. I have done as much as I could, but certainly not as much as I wish, as I 
 
 Vol. 11. Q 2
 
 116 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. have not the means of doing more. I have but one clerk, and for tlie preparation of the 
 
 ■/■; ,^ '■ ■ I'eturns for the iircsent Commissioners, he has worked exceedingly hard. We have 
 
 J he Commisswriers . .1 . 1 ^ ti i. 1 • i-ii i- ^ 
 
 oj' Education in Constantly to niaKe two or tliree returns eacJi session oi 1 arliament. 
 Ireland, Clare street, 21-461). You have Stated Strong grounds for applying to Ihe Ijord Lieutenant for another 
 Dublin. clerk; and he has the power, under the 53rd Geoi-ge III., to grant one? — He has the power 
 
 W. C. Kyle. li,.d. ^£ increasing the allowance, such as the Governors have to apply for any thing extra, I 
 believe. 
 
 21470. It is under the 4th section that the Lord Lieutenr.nt has the power to grant such 
 sums of money as shall be desired ? — It has been my own fault the business has increased 
 so much. 
 
 21471. It is quite clear an increase of the staff was contemplated, because the language 
 of the Act is — " The secretary and such other subordinate, officer, or officers, as they 
 shall think proper" ? — In answer to that, perhaps, it might be said, " Your Board have 
 brought additional trouble and annoyance on themselves, by this particular system of 
 accounts, and matters of that kind.'' It is to the Commissioners I v.onld liave to apply, 
 and I do not know whether I would be fully justified or not. 
 
 21472. Rev. Dr. Graves. — We have no occasion to put any further questions to you 
 at piresent ; and if you have now any obseiTations to make, or explanations to give with 
 reference to your own evidence, or the conduct of the affairs of the Board of Commis- 
 sioners of Education, the Commissioners will be most happy to hear them ? — As I took 
 the liberty of submitting my own views, yesterday, to the court, when you examined me, 
 I shall not trouble the Commissionerswithany further observations. 
 
 i
 
 EVIDENCE. 117 
 
 Dublin, 22ik1 December, 1855. ^™- 
 
 Present : — Rev. Dr. GitAvn.s, Chairman, Dr. Anuukws, Mr. Stephens, and 
 
 Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Incorporated Society in Dublin tor promoting English Protestant Schools ^"'^%rDMtt^fo"''''' 
 
 IN Ir ISLAND (continued). promoting Enylish 
 
 21473. Secretary.— T\\Q licv. Mr. Abbott wislies to make a statement with regard to the ''''''tiTrw!' '''''" 
 Incorporated Society. 
 
 Rev. E. S. Abbott sworn and examined. Kcv. E. S. Abbott. 
 
 21474. Rev. Dr. Graves. — What connexion Iiavc you witli the Incorporated Society? — 
 I have been connected with the society, but I retired about two years ago. 
 
 21475. Are you no longer a member of the society? — I retired because I considered 
 there was some mismanagement connected with the aft'airs of the society. 
 
 21470. Were you ever a member of the Committee of Fifteen? — No; I was not in the 
 upper house, as it is called. My sole reason for coming forward is this : I observed that 
 one of the Commissioners is represented to have made the remark that the auditors — at 
 least so I took the expression to mean — had not done their duty. Having been an auditor 
 in ] 853, and struck off several items wliich I considered improjierly charged, I felt rather 
 annoyed by the expression that the auditors had not done their duty. 
 
 21477. The Commissioners will be Iiappy to receive from you any statement which you 
 may tliink proper to make, either respecting tlie mode in which yuu have performed your 
 duty as auditor, or with regard to tlie general management of the affairs of tlie society ? — My 
 sole object in coming forward is this, that the society may be as much improved as ])0ssib]c', 
 and that all abuses should be rectified. If you allow me, I will read a letter which I 
 wrote to the secretary of the society, and which explains the reasons of my resignation. 
 
 21478. Mr. Stephens- — Is your complaint against one of the Commissioners?. — I am not 
 making any complaint against the Commissioners. My reason for coming here is, because 
 I was auditor before. I was an auditor, in 1849, of Mr. Ardill's and Mr. Pidgeon's 
 accounts, with Mr. Stubbs and the Rev. George Blacker. Mr. Blacker did not attend, but 
 Mr. Stubbs audited them with me, and I struck off a charge of £250. five per cent, on 
 £5,000, which was realized by a sale of land, made by the Incorporated Society. I said I 
 thought Mr. Pidgeon, being a highly respectable man, should be allowed as much as any 
 other respectable agent ; and I inquired of Stewart and Kincaid, and they said they never 
 made a charge of that kind. 1 struck off that item. And there was £20 a-year, which he 
 was allowed for drawing out his accounts, which I thought was not a usual charge with 
 agents. There was some debate about it. Some members thought he was so excellent 
 an agent, and had so much trouble in the preparation of those accounts, that he should be 
 allowed it, but it was struck off; and since that, I hear, but I am not certain of it, he is 
 remunerated for that £20 a-year which was struck off, in some other way. I do not state 
 this as a fact ; but I heard it, and, of course, the books will tell. Mr. Ardill's accounts were 
 perfectly correct. 
 
 21479. Mr. Stephens. — How long were you auditor? — I retired about two years ago. 
 
 21480. How long were you auditor before you retired ? — I think 1 only audited one set 
 of accounts. I do not think I audited any more. 
 
 21481. Did you retire in consequence of dissatisfaction with the Board? — I did; on 
 account of the general management of the society, the way in which the accounts were 
 audited being one ingredient. I retired 2nd of November, 1853. 
 
 21482. Would you be so kind as to state in what respect you found fault with the auditing 
 of the accounts ? — I think they ought not to be audited by the same persons. I think 
 there should be a variety of auditors, and not the same auditors every year, as is now the 
 case. There ought to be a change, and I also think there ought to be a public auditing; 
 for however high the character of gentlemen may be above suspicion, there is a temptation 
 to pass over lightly what may not be actually wrong, but which there may be a doulru 
 about. It requires, I think, some moral courage to audit a friend's accounts. 
 
 21483. Tiien, if I understand you aright, you think there should be an official auditor, 
 not swayed by any private feelings ? — That is my opinion ; and I take the liberty of 
 saying, really and sincerely, that this society, in order to properly manage the large funds 
 at its disposal, should be publicly managed ; and I retired on the ground that I was over- 
 ruled and out-voted where I thought I was perfectly right. 
 
 21484. Will you allow me to ask you upon what particidar question you were out- 
 Yotcd '.' — The last occasion was when a piece of plate was voted to a clergyman out of the 
 funds for having catechised the children in the school of his parish. I said that 1 thought 
 that was quite incorrect — that it could not be justified ; and that though I was not rich 
 myself, I would be happy to subscribe personally, but I could not allow a subscription being 
 voted out of a public charity; and in consequence of that I wrote the following letter : — 
 
 "November 2, 1803. 
 "My dear Ardill, 
 
 " It has been my misfortune so much to differ from you and some members of the 
 Incorporated Society in the management of its business, that 1 feel I ought to withdraw 
 from it, lest I should risk the loss of the friendship of those whom 1 regard and esteem, 
 and who have quite as much right to their own opinions. I will only instance the last 
 matter, when I respectfully protested against plate being voted away out of the charity.
 
 118 
 
 E^'DOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Incorporated Society 
 
 in Dublin for 
 
 promotiny I^iifjlish 
 
 PrMestant Schools 
 
 in Ireland. 
 
 Rev. E. S. Abbott. 
 
 No doubt it was presented to a most respectable gentleman, but, in my estimation, this 
 did not alter the principle. 
 
 " I beg you will receive this note officially as my retirement, and believe me to be yours, 
 very ti'idy and obliged, 
 
 (Signed,) " E. S. Abbott." 
 
 21485. Have you any other objectious to make against the present system of auditing? — 
 I am not aware how it is conducted now. 
 
 21 486. But at the time that you were auditor? — I may mention that that £20 which I 
 referred to was allowed for years, and I was the first auditor who objected to it, and it 
 was struck off. The practice was not, in my opinion, a good one ; but it might not have 
 struck others as it struck me. 
 
 21487- If I understand you aright, there are two accounts kept — one between Mr. 
 Ardill and the society, and the other between the agent and the society ; but there is no 
 account ke^jt for the society ? — The ledgers in which the accounts were posted were not 
 brought before us — nothing except a statement of the accounts showing the balance. 
 
 21488. Did you ever audit the disbursement book ? — I do not think I ever did. 
 
 21489. Did you ever audit the annual statement?— I rather think I did not. 
 
 21490. Did you ever read the provisions of the charter of George II. ? — I did not. 
 
 21491. Then you did not audit the society's accounts in compKance with the requisi- 
 tions of the charter? — Oh, never; I did not know it was necessary for me to look at it. 
 I think it was the duty of the secretary to have called my attention to it. 
 
 21492. Were these accounts audited in comphance with the terms of the charter? — 
 Not at all — this is the first time I read the charter. 
 
 21493. When was it you audited the accounts of the society? — It appears from the 
 books that I audited in 1849, 1S50, and 1851. 
 
 21494. Give mo the date of the month in 1851 in which you audited ? — 28th May, 1851. 
 
 21495. AVill you be so kind as to tell me the assets and liabilities of the society on that 
 day, because as auditor you ought to be able to give me a direct answer to that question ? 
 — I cannot answer that question. These accounts were put before me by the secretary ; and 
 I examined them, signed them, and behoved them to be correct, having examined all the 
 vouchers. I do not know any thing of the directions contained in the charter. 
 
 21496. During the entire time that you were auditor can you tell me by reference to 
 the books, the assets and liabilities of the society upon any particular day ? — I suppose if I 
 had the books before me I could. 
 
 21497. Well, having the books now before you, take any day that you think proper to 
 select during 1849, 1850, or 1851, and tell me the assets and liabilities of the society? 
 — These are not my books. 
 
 21498. But you have audited the books. What I said was, that the auditors could not 
 have properly discharged their duties ; and the reason I said they could not have properly 
 discharged their duties was because they could not tell me what the assets and liabilities 
 were at the time the accounts were audited. — What do you mean by the assets and liabili- 
 ties : do you mean the capital ? 
 
 21499. Exactly. On one side is placed the property of the society, and the liabilities 
 upon the opposite side ; and I want you to tell me any time during the years you were 
 auditor, viz., 1849, 1850, and 1851, the pecuniary position of the society? — Such a state- 
 ment was not laid before us when auditing. The books that were laid before mc as auditor 
 I audited. 1 am not responsible for any thing which was not laid before me. Clergymen 
 arc not expected to bo first-rate men of business. It was wrong not to have placed such 
 a statement as you refer to before us. 
 
 21500. There are but two accounts, one between Mr. Ardill and the society, and another 
 between the agent and the society ; but there is no account for tlie society. It was, then, 
 utterly impossible to tell what the assets and liabilities of the society were; and if so the 
 auditors did not perform their duty ; and it .also turns out, tliat although the charter of 
 George II. prescribes the mode in wliicli the accounts ought to be kept, the accounts have 
 not Ijcen so kept, and the charter lias not been complied with ? — 1 may take the liberty 
 of saying, in reply, that the real party at I'ault is the secretary, who should have told us 
 what our duty was respecting the examination of the accounts. The accounts which were 
 laid before us we examined. 
 
 2150 1. In England the notion is that the governing body teaches the secretary, and not 
 the secretary the governing body? — I beg to say that one of the reasons I left the society 
 was because 1 thought it was mismanaged, as my letter exj)lains. 
 
 21502. What are the duties of the committee of accounts, or what were their duties in 
 1849, 1850, and 1851 ? — I know of nothin"; but the auditing of the accounts. 
 
 21503. Arc there any rules and re^ 
 mittee of accounts ? — I am not aware, 
 
 21504. Did you ever see any? — None. 
 
 21505. If I understand you aright, you decliiuKl to act as auditor because you were 
 dissatisfied with the way in which the accounts were audited ? — 1 retired principally on 
 account of the general mismanagcnnent of the society, particularly on account of that 
 last case, the voting of a piece of plate out of the funds. 
 
 21500. What was the date of tlint transaction ? — 1 do not know. There is a report drawn 
 up by Mr. Stiilibs and myself, whicli 1 woidd like to have, but it is on the niiiuites of the day. 
 
 21507. Will you give nu; the title of the book which 1 now hand to you? — It is entitled 
 cash-book commencing April, 1843. 
 
 idations for the guidance of the conduct of the com-
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 119 
 
 21508. Will you read the entry at the bottom of i)ago 10? — 2iid February, under the 
 head of Santry — " To a service of plate jiresented to the Jiev. Henry Lefroy, in acknow- 
 ledgment of his gratuitous services in imparting scriptural instruction to the pupils at 
 the Santry institution, £29." 
 
 21509. Did you object to that ? — I did, on principle. 
 
 21510. And, notwithstanding you objected to it, as auditor, the £29 was granted? — 
 It did not come before me as auditor — it came before the general meeting of the society. 
 It came before the Hoard, wlicre they first arrange matters; and it was put from the chair 
 to the vote of the whole Board, and I protested. 
 
 21511. Was it then passed and audited ? — I am not aware. I left before the time the 
 account was audited. The book will tell when it was audited, and by whom. 1 find, on 
 looking over the book, that on 2Gtli of May, 1854, the Rev. Mr. Chichester and the Uev. 
 Mr. Blacker audited that sum ; but these gentlemen were morally justified in doing so, for 
 it was carried by a majority of tlie Board. It was an item in the account for wliich they 
 received a receipt ; and neither of these gentlemen might have been present when that 
 item was voted. If that item came before any auditor, he would have merely to audit so 
 much pounds, shillings, and pence. 
 
 21512. Have you any other objections tostate against the system of auditing the accounts 
 of the society ? — No. 
 
 21513. Will you be so kind as to state your opinion as to the general management of 
 the society, and what you think would tend to reform it ? — 1 think that the auditing ought 
 to be done in a public office, by responsible persons who were men of business, which, 
 generally speaking, clergymen are not. The auditing of the accounts could not be too 
 strict or too public. 
 
 21514. Do you not think a great improvement may be introduced as to the system of 
 keeping the accounts? — From what I have heard you say I think there might; and 
 probably, if it was known, there may have been other books kept, which would elucidate 
 the question. 
 
 21515. We have not been able to discover them. 
 
 21516. Have you any other complaints or suggestions to make? — I would rather not call 
 them complaints. 
 
 21517. Well, then, suggestions for the improvement of the society ? — They have £80,000 
 or i; 100,000, which I think might be made great use of. 
 
 21518. How would you appropriate that sum of money? — I think it would be better 
 to vote it to some well-known institution, or to the support of parochial schools in the 
 country. However, I do not come prepared with suggestions. 
 
 21519. If you have not considered the question, we should be sorry to press the question? 
 — I have not considered that topic ; but 1 feel the society ought to be under more control, 
 and wliat I call really an abuse is, that the same three gentlemen — of great respectability, 
 no doubt — should periodically visit the schools, and take their summer excursions at the 
 expense of the Society. The inspection is very desirable, but there ought to be a change : 
 the same gentlemen should not always go around — there ought to be some new blood 
 infused into the visitatorial board. Mr. Ardill, a very respectable gentleman, also goes 
 around, and has done so for many years ; and then individuals like me are totally unac- 
 quainted with the schools, having no opportunity of inspecting them, except at our own 
 expense. 1 think it would bo a great improvement, if there was a change made in the 
 the persons who take the summer excursions. I pressed those things very frequently on 
 the committee before I left. 
 
 21520. Rev. Dr. Graves. — The Commissioners have no further questions to put to you 
 at present ; and if at a future time, they desire to re-examine you on tliis subject, they 
 will give you due notice of their intention to do so ?^I wish to mention, that those items 
 which I spoke of, I am told are struck out of the account, namely, the £250 and the £20 
 a-year ; but I believe the £20 a-year is given in another shape. 
 
 [For further evidence as to Incorporated Society, see page 228.] 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Incorporated Society 
 
 in Dublin for 
 
 promoting KnijUbh 
 
 Protestant Schools 
 
 in Ireland, 
 
 Ecv. E. S. Abbott. 
 
 The Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Rev. Hugh Hamilton sworn and examined. 
 
 21521. Rev. Dr. Graves. — You are registrar of the Board of Governors of Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools ? — Registrar and inspector. 
 
 21522. When were you appointed ? — I received my salary from September, 1850, but I 
 was in the office a month or six weeks before that. 
 
 21523. Did the Board at that time lay down regulations, prescribing the exact nature of 
 the duties which you were to perform ? — In some things they did, and in some things they 
 did not. 
 
 21524. Did they furnish you with a written or printed code of regulations? — Some of 
 their regulations were embodied in their resolutions, and some of them appear on the face 
 of the reports. 
 
 21525. Your duties, then, are of two kinds — one having relation to yoiu- office as registrar, 
 and the other to your office as inspector. Would you state generally the nature of the 
 duties you perform as registrar ? — The registrar's duties, properly so called, Ml upon my 
 deputy more than upon me. ]My duties as registrar are rather to make payments, to attend 
 the Board, and manage a considerable portion of the correspondence ; but the bulk of the 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Kcv. H. llamilton.
 
 120 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. registrar's duties foils on ray assistant ; because, being absent, I could not perform them, 
 
 ;■; — . but I help him as iar as I can. 
 
 Schonhfmmd"d Ai/ 21526. As I understand what you have said, you are responsible for the performance of a 
 
 Erasmus Smith, £55. certain round of duties, and the nature of these being such that you cannot attend 
 
 Uev. II. HarailtoQ. per.sonally to the discharge of the whole throughout the entire year, in your absence, the 
 
 greater portion of tlie registrar's duties is confided to your assistant, Mr. Thorp. — Who 
 
 is the officer of the Board, as well as myself: he is called assistant registrar, and I am 
 
 called registrar; but it is only a name, so far as I am concerned, for the greater part of 
 
 my duties is connected with the inspectorship. 
 
 21.527. You are, however, held responsible for all the duties of the registrar? — Certainly, 
 we do them between us. I am not talking of our relationship with the Board, but in this 
 respect I am talking of the practice ; the Board gives us duties to do, and they do not care 
 which of us do tliem. 
 
 2152S. Independent of the division of duties between you and Mr. Thorp, would you 
 be kind enough to state what are the duties of the registrar as a whole ? — He has a very 
 large correspondence to manage, to carry out the orders of the Board, attend their meet- 
 ings, keep the minutes, fulfil their orders, keep the accounts, fill in and settle the papers ; 
 he is also custodee of the records, if you will ; but, in fact, attending the Board and their 
 orders is his principal duty. 
 
 21529- Does that complete the account of the duty of the registrar? — So far as I 
 recollect. 
 
 21530. Are you aware of any rules having been at any time laid down, exactly defining 
 the nature of the registrar's duties? — I think you will find, on the appointment of Mr. 
 La Touche, some rules. IMr. Woodward, my predecessor, never acted on them, and I never 
 considered them as applying to me : to manage the correspondence, transmit all ordei's of 
 the Board, procure drafts from the Bank of Ireland, take charge of all books, constitute the 
 
 ' principal duties; and they are performed by Mr. Thorp. 
 
 21531. Mr. Stephftns. — What are your duties, independent of Mr. Thorp?— I was going 
 to say they are closely connected, but in one particular, I always act irrespective of him: I 
 make all the payments. 
 
 21532. \_Secretar;i . — This is the minute of the standing committee of the Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith, passed at a meeting held 8th of November, 1830 : — 
 
 " Resolved — That the following sketch of the duties of the registrar, the amount of 
 salary to be allocated to liim, and the amount of the security to be required for the faithful 
 performance of his duties, be submitted to the next general Board. 
 
 " DUTIES OF THE UEGISTIi,\R. 
 
 " To supply a room for the meetings of the Governors, and the standing committee, and 
 to issue summonses for the same, and to keep a messenger to attend the meetings of the 
 Governors and the standing committee, to take down the proceedings, and to enter fair 
 copies of them in a journal. 
 
 " To receive all communications addressed to the Governors, and submit them for 
 consideration. 
 
 " To transmit all orders to the respective parties concerned, and to write and forward 
 all letters directed by the Board. 
 
 " To procure drafts upon the Bank of Ireland, signed by the Governors, for the payment 
 of the several demands upon the Board, and to produce receipts for the same from the 
 respective parties, at their next meeting of the Board. To keep a debtor and creditor 
 account with the bank. 
 
 " To take cliargo of all books, papers, registries, and other documents belonging to the 
 Board, and to have them so arranged as to bo ready for immediate i)roduction, when 
 required. 
 
 " The salary of the registrar to be £200 per antuim. 
 
 " Security to be given by him for tlie faithful performance of the duties of the office in 
 the sum of ,"i'2,()()0. 
 
 "John Pomeuoy, Chairman."] 
 
 21533. Rev. J)r. Graven Is that rule with regard to the registrar still in force? — Not 
 
 as to the room, inasnuicii as the Governors have taken a house of their own ; I live in 
 their house, and not they in mine. As to the rest of the rule, I always summon the com- 
 mittees, and I liavo taken on myself, more jjarticularly, to fill up tlie ])roceedings in the 
 mimite l)or)k ; tin- iiandwriting may not occasionally be mine, but invariably it is mine or 
 Mr. Thorp's. 
 
 21534. Is this division of duty a mere matter of private arrangement between you and 
 Mr. Thorp, or has it been so niaih^ by the orders of the Governors? — Well, it is a matter 
 of arrangement ; we hel]) oiu; another as l)est we can. What(>ver I tliiidv is best ho docs, 
 and whatever lie tliinks best I ilo. 'i'here is a ])art of tlie Ijusiness he understands better 
 tiiaii I (h). 
 
 21535. Do you keep a messenger?—! have a servant whom I send on Board messages 
 occasionally. 
 
 2153(). Do you liold yourself responsible for the ])crformancc of the duties just enume- 
 rated ? — The Board never jnit those rules before me, but these things I have been doing 
 since I was ai)i)ointed ; I certainly Injld myself responsiide. 1 was aware of those rules, and 
 saw those rules, but I did not recollect wliat they were.
 
 EVIDENCE. 121 
 
 2I;")3T. The next rule is, to receive all coiiniiuiiication.s addressed to tlie Governors, and iJiiu-iN. 
 
 Thf. Governors of the 
 
 to submit tlioni for consideration ? — I certainly do that. 
 
 21538. And hold yourself responsible? — And JNIr. 'Jhorp I hold equally- responsible in ^ sdioolT'fmmleli hi' 
 my absence. I ^o througli tlio letters, for I am generally in the office before he is. J-:r<i^mut' Smiili, Esq. 
 
 21;>39. The tlnrd rule is, " 'J"o tniusmit all orders to the resjjective jjarties concerned, and T;<-\. II Ilainilton. 
 to write and forward all letters directed by tlie IJoard"? — That is carried out by us both 
 indillereutly, as the case may be. 
 
 21540. How is the rcs])onsibility divided; docs the responsibility rest with you for the 
 performance of the duty? — I think equally. I have a very large correspondence with the 
 clergy, and he corresponds with the agents and men of business. IVIr. Thorp generally 
 corresponds wiili the agents and men of business. 
 
 21541. And have there been no regulations with regard to the division of the duty made 
 by the Hoard? — No ; we fall into tlii'ui naturally ourselves. 
 
 2154'J. Who is responsible for the observance of that rule which I have just read? — 
 It is carried out by us both. 
 
 21543. And is the responsibility devolving on both equal? — Quite equal. 
 
 21544. In case of any part of the correspondence being left unattended to, upon whom 
 would the blinie of nogligcuco fall? — I do not think such a case has occurred. 
 
 21545. Supposing it were to occur? — On one occasion we did make a mistake, but the 
 blame was left ou me, inasmuch as a certain letter 
 
 21546. If letters were not written that ought to have been written, on whom would the 
 blame rest ? — On both parties. 
 
 21547. Mr. Stephens. — What is the difference between the two offices? — There is a great 
 difference ; I hold the money, I am security foe the money, but Mv. Thorp keejis the 
 accounts. I cannot make an entry without him, or he make a payment without me. I am 
 absent four or five months in the year. 
 
 21548. Kev. Dr. Graves. — AVe are quite aware of that; our only object is to ascertain 
 the nature of the duties of the office you have to discharge, and the nature of the responsi- 
 bility you have incurred ? — I think it rests on us equally. I do not recollect any case in 
 which the Governors found fault with us for not having forwarded the letters they required. 
 
 21549. However, the responsibility as regards the accounts is greater m your case than 
 in Mr. Thorp's, inasmuch as you give the security? — Oh, yes, I give my security. 
 
 21550. [Si-cretiiyif. — The ne.xt rule is, to procure drafts upon the Bank of Ireland, signed 
 by the Governors, for the payment of the several demands upon the Board, and to produce 
 receipts for the same from the respective parties at the next meeting of the Board.] 
 
 21551. Tliat is not exactly done, because it is all the one account; but I receive the 
 cheques, and lodge the money in the Bank of Ireland. 
 
 215i2. Are the payments made by drafts signed by the Governors? — The payments are 
 made by me, on behalf of the Governors. 
 
 21553. On whom devolves the responsibility at present of complying with the rules and 
 regulations just read? — As to the money, on me; and as to the accounts, on Mr. Thorp ; 
 but I ask Dr. Graves to read the rule again, in order that I may have an opportunity of 
 stating whether it is exactly complied with. 
 
 21554. "To procure drafts upon the Bank of Ireland, signed by the Governors, for the 
 payment of the several demands upon the Board?'' — That is done. 
 
 21555. "And to produce receipts for these sums from the respective parties at the next 
 meeting of the Board ?"' — That is not done, inasmuch as they are not thrown into the general 
 account. You had the accounts before you, and saw the whole system. 
 
 21550. Does the responsibility of seeing that done rest with you? — The money part of 
 the responsibility rests with mo decidcdl}-. inasmuch as the money is all lodged in my name. 
 
 21557. Can you point to any minute of the Board rescinding that resolution? — I cannot; 
 but I can account for its being virtually rescinded — the payments have become so large and 
 so many, that it would, if practised, take the whole time of every meeting. Large payments 
 are made in May and November, when we pay for 110 schools; therefore, it could not bo 
 Carried out. I suppose. 
 
 21558. Are you aware whether there has been any alteration of the resolution ? — I know 
 nothing of it. I only know the practice when I was appointed. It would be impossible to 
 carry it out, which, I think, is a sufficient answer. 
 
 21559. ilr. Stephens. — You say it would be impossible to carry out the minute of 
 the 8th of November, 1830. Do you not know that all the payments of the Clare-street 
 Board are made in the mode prescribed by the minute of the 8th of November, 1830 ? — 
 I never heard of the practice of the Clare-street Board until this minute, except that I saw 
 something relating to the subject in Dr. Kyle's evidence the other day. I rather think 
 that Dr. Kyle's evidence went to this: that the Clare-street Board paid by separate 
 cheques, and signed separate cheques. Now. we having small sums to deal with, it occurs 
 to me that that could not be done by our Board. 
 
 215(50. Why does the smallness of the cheques prevent the by-laws or minute from being 
 carried out ? — The number of signatures it would require. Each of the Governors would 
 have to sign them three times each. I am merely giving my opinion why that rule has 
 not been acted upon. I know nothing of any rules except a few that were laid down, 
 with regard to the payment, when I was appointed. 
 
 21 561. Mr. LaTouche is not named in this sketch of the duties of registrar? — It was 
 made on Mr. La Touche's appointment, I think. 
 
 21562. Am I to understand that you imagine the rules and regulations which wore 
 laid down for the conduct of the registrar generally, expired ou the death of Mr. La Touche? 
 
 Vol. n. o o J i n
 
 122 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DOBLIJJ. 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schook founded by 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Rev. H. Hamilton. 
 
 — I do not know — they never were brought before me except by yourself, and as I look at 
 them now in the book. 
 
 21563. If I understand you aright, your position is this: there are written directions for 
 the registrar, and then there is a practice inconsistent with those written directions ? — If 
 the statute law is to be interpreted by the common law, 1 should say that is the case. 
 
 215(34. But common law does not repeal statute law? — 1 do not know; but it is not the law. 
 
 215G5. The common law preceded the statute law? — The practice of the court is some- 
 times quoted against the Act of Paidiaraent ; but 1 may sa}^ this : these rules were never 
 brought before me by the Governors, nor would 1 have any knowledge of them until I came 
 into this room, except for a matter which occurred with the Governors some years ago, and 
 wliicli I had to looli through the books for ; but they were never brought before me as a part 
 of my duties. 
 
 21566. When did you first become aware of their existence ? — I cannot tell; I had some 
 time to spare, and I looked over the books, and saw them casually. 
 
 21567. Is it lately that you became acquainted with their existence? — I should say 
 about three years ago, if I recollect. 
 
 21568. [Secretary. — The next rule is to keep a debtor and creditor account with the bank.] 
 21539. That is done by the bank pass-book. 
 
 21570. By whom? — The bank, who has the custody of the bank-book, Mr. Thorp, and I ; 
 and we get it made up before every meeting of the G overnors, to show the state of our afiairs. 
 
 21571. Will you produce the book? — I have not it here. 
 
 21572. When will you have it? — I do not know. I rather think it is one of the books 
 returned. 
 
 21573. Am I distinctly to understand that, from the 1st of June. 1854, to 31st January, 
 1854, a regular debtor and creditor account was kept with the bank, in compliance with 
 the directions of the standing committee, 8th November, 1854? — I understand you 
 perfectly, but I do not see that I can quite answer that question. I say the pass-book 
 was kept, and I believe there is a place open in the ledger ; but I am not the accountant 
 in the office, and, therefore, I do not wish to answer the question further. 
 
 21574. Can you not give a direct answer to my question? — I cannot do it; I would 
 rather not ; but still I state that the bank pass-book answers that description ; but you 
 must recollect I am not an accountant. 
 
 21575. Who can give the information? — Mr. Thorp, better than I can. The whole 
 question is before the Governors, and I think you will find you will get an answer from 
 them. They have been considering the question of the accounts, as you know, very closely; 
 and I think I gave a fair answer, and a very satisfactory one, and ouglit not to be questioned 
 on the accounts. I leave that to the Governors. 
 
 21576. But you told us that part of the duties of your office was keeping the accounts, 
 and then when we ask you a question respecting the accounts, you refer to some one 
 else? — I said keeping the money. I tliink you will find I said I kej^t tlie money, and 
 Mr. Thorp, the accounts. I do not keep the accounts of the ofiice. 
 
 21577- I understood the treasurer to state, when under examination, the other day, that 
 the Governors lield you responsible for keeping the accounts ? — I never did so ; you must 
 have misunderstood him. 
 
 21578. Then, if I understand you aright, you cannot state in what way you kept your 
 account with the bank, from the 1st of January, 1854, to 31st of December, 1854 ? — There 
 is my account with the bank since I was appointed registrar. [Book handed in.] 
 
 21579. Do you put this book in for the purpose of showing that you kept your accounts 
 in accordance with tlie rules ? — I put it in, and it is for you to see whether it is in accord- 
 ance with the rules or not. 
 
 215S0. Rev. Dr. Graves Do you say whether the rule is complied with? — So far as I 
 
 know, it is. 
 
 21581. I Secretary.— The rule is to keep a debtor and creditor account with the bank.] 
 
 21582. That is Mr. Thorp's duty, not mine. 
 
 21583. [Secretary. — The next rule is to take charge of all books, pa])ers, "registries," 
 and other documents, belonging to the Board, and to have them so arranged as to be 
 ready for immediate ])roduction, when required.] 
 
 21584. Tluit is done to the best of my ability. Mr. Thorp generally undertakes the 
 arrangement of the papers ; but the custody of the books is with me, inasmuch as I live 
 in tiie house. 
 
 21585. Mr. Stephens- — By whom was Mr. Thorp appointed? — By the Governors, at 
 the same time that I was. From an early period of life, he assisted Mr. Woodward, tlio 
 late registrar, wlio, not being al)h^ to discliarge the chities fidly, employed Mr. Thorp, and 
 in that way he acquired a knowledge of the ailairs of tlio Hoard whicli, I believe, no otlier 
 person living lias; and tlicn wlien Mr. Woodward resigned, 1 was apjjointcd registrar and 
 inspector, and Mr: Thorj) was apj)ointed my assistant. 
 
 21586. lie was merely tlio assistant of tlio former registrar? — Yes; you will find Mr. 
 Tliorp's handwriting very far back in tlie books. There was something the matter with 
 one of Mr. Woodward's liands, and he cm])loycd Mr. Thorp to write for him. 
 
 21587. Did you give any security? — One thousand pounds myself, and two others in 
 one thousand jxiuiuis each. 
 
 21588. You have told us that you arc absent a considerable portion of every year from the 
 office ? — During tliat time the management of the affairs devolves entirely upon Mr. Tliorp. 
 
 21589. Did Mr. Thorp give any security? — No. I will give an explanation of that, if 
 jou please. The heavy paymcuta are made on the 1st of May and 1st of November. At
 
 EVIDENCE. 123 
 
 these periods I always manage to be present ; therefore very little money transactions go Dublin. 
 on in iny absence. Mr. Thorn sometimes sends a blank cheque to the country, and I send ^ ^, , , 
 
 • , ,.,1 1 1 . ,1 • 11 Jne Uovernum of /he 
 
 It up hlled ; but this occurs very seldom. _ _ _ Schools fumdid hy 
 
 21090. Are there any rules or by-laws defining the duties of the assistant-registrar? — I Erasmus' Smith, Esq. 
 
 think not. I never saw any- Hcv. II. Hamilton. 
 
 21.591. Have you any direct authority over Mr. Thorp? — No; I would not exercise it 
 
 if I had, for ho understands the duties better tlian I do. 
 
 21592. Uavc you any power or autliority to discharge Mr. Thorp? — Certainly not. He 
 is as much appointed by the 15oard as 1 am ; but it is very hard to answer a question that 
 never arose. 
 
 21593. ^Secretary. — This is tlic minute of the standing committee, 19th July, 1850, 
 with respect to the offices of registrar and inspector : — " That the ofiices of registrar and 
 inspector of schools be united ; that the salary be£l 70, wliich is to include travelling expenses. 
 The registrar to have apartments in the house of the Governors, but to provide the neces- 
 sary attendance on Board and for messenger. That a clerk be appointed, at a salary of 
 £80 per annum. That the arrangements incident to tliese arrangements be made by the 
 committee. 
 
 " That the Kev. Hugh Hamilton be acquainted of the vacancy, and that his making 
 application be suggested to him. if the appointment would be likely to suit him ; and that 
 the clerkship be offered to j\Ir. Thorp."] 
 
 21594. llev. Dr. Graves. — I think 1 understand you to say there are no orders made by 
 the Governors rescinding tlie rules that have been just read ? — These rules were made in 
 1830 ; what orders may have been made since I am not aware. They were never given to 
 me as my duties. 
 
 21595. Did you take the pains to ascertain what your duties were by refei'ence to the 
 minute books ? — 1 did not. I learned my duties from the practice of my predecessors, like 
 Mr. Barlow and Jlr. Woodward, and not by reference to the books. 
 
 21596. How is the Board constituted? — Seven ex-officio Governors, four belonging to 
 the Blue Coat Hospital, and the rest are self-elected ; but on a vacancy, the remaining 
 Governors fill it up. 
 
 21597. What is the total number ? — Twenty-six. 
 
 21598. Do the ex-officio Governors attend regularly? — No. 
 
 21599. What has been the average attendance of the Governors since the 1st of January, 
 1854?— The books will show that. 
 
 21000. Would you be so good as to complete for the Commissioners a return of the 
 attendance of the Governors, in continuation of the Parliamentary return which was made out. 
 
 21601. Are the Governors v/ho absent themselves from the meetings of the Board for 
 two years together removed, in consequence of their non-attendance? — They are not. 
 Lord Erne, who did not attend for many years, came and tendered his resignation, but the 
 Governors did not accept it. 
 
 21602. Do you know how many of the Governors have been absent from the meetings 
 of the Board for the last two years ? — If I had the list I could say. 
 
 21603. Would you be so good as to add that to the return just asked for. What is the 
 general nature of the business transacted at a meeting of a Board of Governors ? — Do you 
 mean a meeting of the general Board, or of the committee ? 
 
 21604. I said the general Board? — The business is generally formal, legal matters, such 
 as seahng leases, making the appointments of masters, discussing any important questions 
 reserved for them by the committee. 
 
 21605. Are the law agents always present at the general Board? — Mr. Fetherstone is 
 seldom absent from either the committee or the general Board. I do not know that he 
 was absent more than once or twice. 
 
 21606. Is his presence required as a rule? — Oh, certainly, and the rule very seldom broken. 
 
 21607. He attends professionally as a solicitor : is he paid for his attendance ? — He is ; 
 and lie gets notice with the rest also. 
 
 21008. Would you be so good as to state the nature of the business transacted at each 
 meethig of the standing committee? — The first portion of the meeting is devoted to 
 matters regarding the estates, then all matters regarding the grammar schools, then matters 
 regarding the English schools, and lastly, signing the cheques. 
 
 21609. What proportion of the time of each meeting of the standing committee would 
 you say, in general, is devoted to these different parts of business ? — Wlicn I was first 
 appointed the estates question was eyery thing, and it was very hard to get into the other 
 business. Now the estates question passes as a matter of course. The Governors have 
 now a great deal more time for the schools than they used to have, from the difficulty of 
 managing the estates being over. 
 
 21610. Is it not necessary still for the standing committee to devote a good deal of 
 consideration to the claims made by tenants for abatements ? — Very little time lately is 
 devoted to that particular question, as such questions hardly come on since the times have 
 mended ; but wlien they do, they are considered by the committee. 
 
 21011. The gentlemen who take part in the business of the standing committee are 
 regular in their attendance ? — Yes. 
 
 21612. There is, therefore a continuity in the transactions of the business of the Gover- 
 nors ? — Mr. Fetherstone being present adds very much to that. 
 
 21613. Has Mr. Fetherstone the power to vote on any question? — He is only present 
 as I am — the servant of the Board. 
 
 21614. What proportion of the time of the standing committee is generally devoted to 
 Vol. II. R 2
 
 124 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 bcBLiy. the consideration of the affairs relating to the grammar schools? — Frequently long letters 
 
 ri,L r ~~~ -^.if ti ^^'^ come from masters, which require a great deal of consideration. 
 
 Srhuois founded ill 21(il5. I spoak as a whole? — It is impossible to say: every one of the grammar schools 
 Ei-amus Siiiiiii, Esq engages a great deal of attention. 
 
 Kev. H. Hamilton. 2161G. What proportion of time would you say is given in general to the consideration 
 of the correspondence and business relating to the English schools ? — Latterly they have 
 become lieavy, but formerly it was quite dilferent. 
 
 21617. Does that subject engross more of tlie attention of the standing committee than 
 an}- other? — At present, more questions arise upon it; but some years ago, more questions 
 arose on the estates. 
 
 21618. Do tlie English schools occupy the attention of the standing committee more than 
 the grammar schools ? — The questions which arise on them are nearly two to one. 
 
 21619. Do you thinlc they occu])y the time of the cuinmittee in that proportion ? — I would 
 say they do. 
 
 21620. Would you state what was the original intention of Erasmus Smith in this chari- 
 table foundation ? — The three scliools on his estates. 
 
 21G21. I speak of the original intention? — The three grammar scbools? 
 
 21G22. I wish you to answer mo some questions from the charter? — I am not a judge of 
 the charter, nor do I understand it. 
 
 21623. Dr. Andreu's. — You are not asked to construe the charter? — I never took the 
 charter as a guide to any thing- -1 always look how tilings are at present. 
 
 21G24. Ecv. Dr. Graves. — I am not going to propose any legal question to you upon the 
 construction of a single clause in the charter ? — 1 did not understand you, my object in 
 asking 
 
 21625. I mean only to ask such questions rekative to tlic charter, as shall be necessary 
 for the purpose of ascertaining the existing practice of the Governors ? — I wiU answer as 
 well as 1 can. 
 
 21626. AYould vou bo so good as to read the first clause of tlie charter? — Charles 11., or 
 William IV. ? 
 
 21627- The charter of King Charles 11 " To all to whom these presents shall come, 
 
 greeting. Whereas, Erasmus Smith, Esq., did heretofore intend to erect five grammar 
 schools within the kingdom of Ireland, and to endow the same with convenient maintenance 
 for schoolmasters, and to make further provision for education of children at the university, 
 which should be brought up at tlie same schools, and for several other charitable uses." 
 
 2IG28. It appears from this, that the original intention was to erect five grammar schools; 
 how man}' grammar schools are endowed under this charter ? — Only three. 
 
 21621). IIow many grammar schools are at present in operation? — Four; one was added 
 about the middle of the last century. 
 
 21630. Do you know where the Governors first established their English schools? — It is 
 in the books. The first English school was established in the Island of Valencia. The 
 oldest English school now in existence, which was establislied in 1790, is at Tarbert; but 
 the Valencia school has been done away with. 
 
 21631. Perhaps you would explain the history of the Englisli schools ? — If you look to 
 the Commissioners' Report of 1809-12, you will find it there stated, that the Governors 
 had large funds at their disposal at that time ; and that it was proposed to establish Enghsh 
 schools all over the country. The Commissioners said they liighly approved of that inten- 
 tion, and the Governors and Conimis.sioncrs agreed tliat the surplus funds should be spent 
 in that way. 1 think, at that time there were about si.\ Enghsh schools in existence. 
 
 21632. There were then four I'higlish schools, — one in Dublin, one at Nonagh, one at 
 Tarbert, and one at Tcmjilcderry ? — They did cstablisli English schools all over the country, 
 on the recommendation of the Commissioners. 
 
 21633. Arc you aware of the amount of funds (wpcndcd on the establishment of these 
 English schools? — If you look to tliese returns; they are as near as I can go to it. 
 
 21631. I do not speak of the salaries of the masters — the annual payments on account 
 of the I'liiglish schools, but the capital expended on the first foumhition of them ? — I have 
 no w.ay of knowing it. 
 
 21635. Look to the report of the standing committee of IStli June, 1812? — Ineversaw 
 this minute until now. 
 
 21636. Read it? — '•' Your committee beg leave to state that there liave been several 
 aj)[)lications for new schools, the con.sidenition of some of which have been latterly jiost- 
 poned, as they tlionght it their duty previously to apjirize the Roard of the state of the 
 grants already made; and also of the funds, of which they liavc directed the registrar to 
 make the annexed : — 
 
 To 62 schools at £300, .... £18.600 
 
 800 
 
 450 
 
 4,H00 
 
 750 
 
 ... 975 
 
 „ Amount of building a schoolhousc in St. Mark's Parish, , 2,500 
 
 ,, Amount of building a schotd at (ilalway, . . 8,300 
 
 ,, Amount of building five schools, recommended by standing 
 
 committee, ..... 2,300 
 
 2 
 
 
 400, 
 
 1 
 
 
 450, 
 
 8 
 
 1 
 
 
 600, 
 750, 
 
 1 
 
 
 975, 
 
 Making a gross total of . £39,475."
 
 EVIDENCE. 125 
 
 21C37. Have you any reason to believe that that statement conveys an accurate repre- Dublin. 
 
 ficntation (if tlie o\[icnulitiire of capital on thi> cstalilisliinciit of tlio.so En^h'sli scliooLs ? . 
 
 I Iiad no kno\vle(l2;c of that statement until this nioincnt. J am sure tlie document to wliich ''''''p'f^'""'^ «/"" 
 you rciciTod IS authentic and ri;^lit: but J may mention anotlier jioint — my recollection Jdasmus Smith, Esq. 
 of the minutes goes to this, that where the Governors give a sum of money, they expect l!cv. II. ll:miiUon. 
 the landlord to give an equal sum. 
 
 21()38. Do you know what is tlio e.xact munber of EnglLsh schools at present in opera- 
 tion? — I do; I made a niemorandum for the piu-pose of e.\[)laining this before I came 
 here. Tliere are now in operation eighty-iivc^ lioys' or ini.xcd English selniols : and twenty- 
 eight girls' I'higlish schools, making a total of 1 1;5. Promises for the establishment of four 
 boys' schools, and two girls' schools have been made, which are still iu abeyance, making 
 a tot.al of 119. There are llo in operation, and six jjromises. 
 
 21().'j!). I find in the minutes of the standing committee of the 18th of June, 1821, that 
 there were then seventy-nine English schools under the management of the Board. Are 
 you aware whether many schools wliich had been previously in connexion with the Board 
 of (iovernors have been discontinued. Have you any record, or means of ascertaining the * 
 
 number of schools that have been discontinued? — Three schools have been discontinued in 
 my recollection. \V'hen I say three, one of them was a double school— the school at 
 Rathmore and the school of Donadea, a boys' and girls' school, where the landlord 
 infringed on the order of the Governors by allowing a glebe house to be built near the 
 site on which the school was built. A boys' and girls' school only counts one with me, 
 because I inspect them on the same day; but in the return to the Governors, they count 
 two. 
 
 21640. Could you state now what is the number of pupils returned as educated in the 
 four grammar schools which you mentioned just now ? — It is on the books, last November. 
 21()41. Can you, from any minute-book, answer as to the number of pupils receiving 
 education in the I'^nglish schools ? — I have brought an extract with me, from which I can 
 furnish you with the information. On tlie 1st of November, the number of children 
 educated in these .schools was 5,380. 
 
 21G42. AVould you be good enough to furnish the nundier of pupils educated in the 
 grammar schools, as appears by the last school return ?— In Drogheda grammar school 
 there were fifty-eight pupils, of whom eighteen were boarders, and six free ; in Galway, 
 no boarders, day pupils, twenty-eight, of which eight were free (there has been an increase 
 in the free pupils lately) ; Tippcrary, no boarders, twenty-one day pupils, of whom six 
 were free ; Eniiis. thirty-four boarders, and twenty day scholars, of whom nine were free. 
 
 21643. Then the total number in the grammar schools, at the date of the late return, 
 was 161 ? — Y'es. 
 
 21644. What instructions are given to the masters as to the mode in which they should 
 return the numbers ? Do the returns represent the number of scholars present upon a 
 particular day, or do they represent the averages ? — The number of pupils, I should say, 
 on the roll, the 31st of October and 30th of April, ., 
 
 21645. But do they represent the actual average attendance ? — In the grammar schools 
 the average is very much the same, except in cases of sickness. 
 
 21646. But the average attendance must differ considerably from the total number on the 
 roll in the English schools, which of course is large. The ditferencc may not be so great in 
 the grammar schools. 
 
 21647. The Board have taken measures to encourage a diligent attendance on the Engli.sh 
 schools ; will you be so good as to state the nature of it ? — 1 have brought two documents 
 bearing on the subject, which 1 will hand in, if you please. There is the circular, and there 
 is the list which each master tots up for me at the end of the year. 
 
 21648. The Governors have resolved to grant premiums in money, in the proportion of 
 about one premium to every ten pupils; 10s. is the highest sum, '2s. 6d. the lowest amount 
 awarded ; and no pupil to be entitled to a premium who has not been in attendance at 
 least three-fourths of the number of days on which the school has been open. This 
 regulation was made the 27th December, 1853, the plan has, therefore, been in operation 
 nearly two years ; can you state to the Commissioners what amount of premiums have 
 been awarded ? — I should say, that if there are 150 scholars in the schools, on an average, 
 fifty obtain them ; but that is only a rough guess. 
 
 21649. The plan has not been long enough in operation to enable you to ascertain 
 whether it has produced any considerable effect? — I tell you the effect it has produced: 
 that the best boy furnished at the inspection is the one ndio gets the Governors' premiums. 
 I generally ask, at each inspection, about this matter, and I find the best attendant the 
 best answerer. 
 
 21650. AVhat is the code of rules iu force for the management of the grammar schools? 
 — I do not think there is any. Mr. Barlow made a return upon the rules laid down by the 
 charter, and how far they have been acted on ; but there is no regular code of rules for 
 the grammar schools. 
 
 21651. One of the rules, as set forth in the charter, is to the following eft'ect : "Also 
 the said masters shall duly, once every week — on each Lord's Day — catechise their scholars, 
 and for that purpose shall make use of the catechism set out by the late Most Reverend 
 Father in God, .Tames Ussher, Lord Archbishop of Armagh, Lord Primate of all Ireland ; and 
 shall spend some time in expounding some part thereof unto them." Is that rule in 
 force ? — No ; I believe Archbishop Cssher's catechism is not printed, except in his works, 
 published by Dr. Ellington.
 
 126 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBLiK. 21652. What rules are enforced with reference to the communication of religious 
 
 instruction in the grammar schools? — I do not think the Governors ever asked the 
 
 slhoolsfomded by^ qucstion. I think, having appointed clergymen of the Established Church the masters, 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. they have left it very much in their hands. I do not think there are any rules laid down 
 BeT. H. Hamilton. for them. 
 
 21653. I have placed in your hands a document of vi'hich I would thank you to read the 
 title ? — " Rules, &c., extracted from tlie proceedings of tlie Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq.. approved of and ordered to be printed in 18.35." I 
 never saw those rules until I saw them in Mr. Thorp's hand, when he found them out by 
 the. desire of the Commissioners the other day. 
 
 21654. Do you know whether these rules were ever printed? — I do not. 
 
 21655. Do you know are they still in force, or have they been superseded by any later 
 code of rules ? — I do not think the present masters know any thing about them. 1 have 
 never been talking to a master that ever heard of them. 
 
 21656. Those rules, as it appears by a letter of yours, dated 21st December, 1855, have 
 been brought under the consideration of the chairman of the Board of Governors; and you 
 also state that these rules and bye-laws have been carefully considered by Mr. Barlow. 
 He has furnished a memorandum with reference to them, and he says that, as to rules No. 
 1, 2, 3, and 4, he believes they are in force. 
 
 21657- The following are the rules : — 
 
 " 1st. That prayers be read morning and evening in each of the said schools, by the 
 master or usher, out of the liturgy by law established, at which eveiy youth shall bo obhged 
 duly to attend. 
 
 " 2nd. That every youth educated in the said schools shall be instructed by the master 
 or usher in Doctor Mann's Catechism; and upon Sundays publicly examined in the same 
 in the church. 
 
 " 3rd. That every person educated in the said schools shall duly attend the public service 
 in the parish church, where each school is situated, every Lord's Day, and such other time 
 as the master or usher shall appoint ; and upon neglect thereof, after due admonishment, 
 to be expelled the said schools. 
 
 " 4th. That every person so educated, when he is sufficiently instructed in the aforesaid 
 catechism, shall be brought by the master or usher to the bishop to be confirmed." 
 
 21658. Mr. Barlow says he believes these rules are in force? — I should say that some of 
 them are not. I cannot say for certain, but I believe so. 
 
 21659. Did the Governors take any means to ascertain whether they are or not? — I do 
 not think the Governors knew of their existence until they were discovered now. 
 
 21660. Did you give me to miderstand that the Governors left the matter of religious 
 instruction in the grammar-schools to the discretion of the masters? — I think very much so. 
 
 21661. With regard to both boarders and day-scholars? — Yes. 
 
 21662. Are Roman Catholic pupils received into any of the grammar schools? — There are. 
 
 21663. Has that fact been brought under the notice of the Governors? — I never knew of 
 it. The Governors admitted a boy the other day ; and 1 was told afterwards, in Galway, 
 after his admission, he was a Catholic. 
 
 21664. Have not the masters of the grammar schools been obliged, for parliamentary 
 purposes, to make retm-ns specifying the rchgion of the jnipils educated in them ? — I never 
 saw them. 
 
 21665. At present the returns made by the masters of the grammar schools do not 
 indicate whether any of the pupils are of the Roman Catholic religion, or of any other 
 denomination differing from the Estabhshed Church ? — Certainly not. 
 
 21666. And no rules are laid down with regard to the mode of dealing with pupils who 
 are of difi'erent denominations? — I think every master acts according to his own discretion. 
 
 21667. [ISecretary. — In the grammar-schools in 1826, there were twenty-three I'rotestants, 
 and twenty-one Koman Catholics.] 
 
 216(18. Prol)ably that return was not made to the Governors, but to the Commissioners. 
 
 21669. 'iSecrvtri ry . — In Galway there were fifteen Protestants, and five Roman Catholics; 
 ill Tipperary, twenty of tlie Estaljlished Church, and seven Roman Catholics. There are no 
 distinctions made in 1 835.] 
 
 21670. You stated that the Governors were not made aware, officially, of the admission 
 of Roman Catholic pu[)ils, or of any others of a different religious denomination from the 
 Established Church, into the grammar schools ; and, therefore, it is unnecessary to ask 
 wh(!t)ier there liave boon C()m])laints of interference with the rehgion of the Roman CathoHc 
 pujiils? — 1 never heard of any. 
 
 21671. Then there are no rules for the government of the grammar schools drawn up 
 subsequent to those given in the charter ; but tliero are printed rules drawn up for the 
 government of the Englisli schools ? — Yes ; I have them here. 
 
 21672. A co])y of them has been forwarded to the Commissioners. As well as I remember, 
 thd third, fourth, and lif'th rules have reference to the religious instruction of the ])U])ils 
 received into the, schools — would you ho. so good as to read them ? — " Third, on every ilay 
 .all chihlren who have attained a suitable ])roficiency shall read to the teachers a chapter 
 ill the Uible. The teaclier shall examine the ciiildreii as to tiieir understanding wh.at they 
 have read, explaining the sense in ])hun language, witliout entering into controversial or 
 abstruse matters. Fourth, the I'>il)le sliall be used for religious instruction only, and not 
 for the jjurposc of teaching to spell or to read. Eifth, the children whose parents are
 
 EVIDENCE. 127 
 
 members of tlic Church, sliall be instructed on at leant one day in every week in the Dublin. 
 
 catechism of the Cluirch of Ji^ngland, and no other catechism shall bo taught or admitted ™ ,, ■; — . , . 
 into the scliool ; the attendance of the children of other denominations on this occasion, Sr/wuls fuumled by 
 shall be as their parents may direct." Emmm t<mith, Esq. 
 
 21()73. Under that rule tiio admission of children of other religious denominations into Kov. II. Hamilton, 
 the schools is recogniz(!il ; but it is necessary ibr sucli of tliom as are able to read to receive 
 instruction out of the Scri])tures: have any complaints been made to the Governors re- 
 specting the operation of that rule ?— The questiou has been very often discussed, and is a 
 very important one. 
 
 21G74. 1 am only asking as a matter of fact, whether complaints have been addressed to 
 the Governors? — Th(^ rules are strictly acted on in all our schools. 1 think 1 found it had 
 been broken in one case, and but one, since I became inspector. 
 
 2 IG75. What rule is laid down with respect to the religion of the masters and mistresses ? 
 — They must be members and communicants of the Church of England. 
 
 21()7G. Is that in force? — When 1 was appointed there was an old man, named John 
 Hastings, in a school in the county of Tyrone, who was a Presbyterian. In every case, I 
 asked, when 1 was appointed, were the masters and mistresses members of the Established 
 Church, and they arc all now members of the Church of England. There are private rules 
 which are not posted in the school, but given to the masters and mistresses. One of those 
 states — " They must be members of the Established Church, and must exhibit to the 
 inspectors proofs of the regular attendance at divine worship in their respective parish 
 churches, and of their having, from time to time, received the sacrament of the Lord's 
 Supper according to the rites of the Church of England. 
 
 21677. Would you bo so good as to inform me how the duty of inspector of the English 
 schools is performed ? — I give notice ten days or a week before to the clergyman or 
 patron ; and if the clergyman does not answer me, 1 send word to the schoolmaster, so as 
 to be prepared for the inspection, and that I may fill up the return No. 12. It takes the 
 greater part of my time to answer the questions propounded in tliat return. 
 
 21078. Then, in order to obtain the materials for enabling you in a satisfactory way to 
 answer yourself, you hold a very strict examination into the progress made by tlio pupils 
 in all the classes? — Not in all the classes. There are classes in reading and spelling in 
 the larger schools, which I could not have time to go over ; but I so reduce them as to get 
 forty good readers ; and, latterly, as I am not very strong, I am in the habit of reducing 
 them to twenty. I could not go over all the classes in reading ; but when a schoolmaster 
 points out to me sixty good readers, I have not time to examine them in the day ; there- 
 fore, I say, give me the best ; and, perhaps, I give them a few c[ucstions, but 1 do not 
 generally examine more than twenty or forty in the larger schools, and iu the small schools 
 twelve or fourteen, but the book will show. 
 
 21G79. i'ou keep a record'of the answers? — Yes. 
 
 21680. So as to enable you to state whether the pupils in the class had made progress 
 between the interval of your visits? —Yes. I bring the old book generally each time. 
 
 21681. What time in general do you devote to the examination in a school? — According 
 to the extent of the school. I can get through the examination of an ordinary average 
 school in two hours, or two hoiu's and a quarter ; the larger schools sometimes take two 
 days, but I overworked myself, particularly at the school of Motintstewart ; and I do not 
 give more than four hours a day now to any school, except I protract my inspection to two 
 days, which sometimes occurs. 
 
 21682. Iu the course of the year you visit all the English schools in connexion with the 
 Board of Governors ? — Yes ; but if a school is vacant, of course I could not visit it. 
 
 21683. Are you satisfied that an annual inspection is sufficient to keep the schools in an 
 efficient state ? — If I could inspect them once a week, I could do a great deal more. 
 
 21684. Is it your opinion that frequent and active inspection contributes very much to 
 the eiSciency of the schools? — Yes; and there is another species of inspection. When I 
 visit the schools in spring, there is a return made by the parish clergy ; in fact, my inspec- 
 tion would be of little use, if I had not the clergy of the parish to back me. 
 
 21685. Is that what the Governors call the superintendent's return ? — When I insjjoct in 
 spring, that return is made in autumn. 
 
 21686. Is there a superintendent for every English school ? — In every school the clergy 
 are ex-offi,cio superintendents — either the rector or curate, as the case may be. 
 
 21687. Is he invited, iu all cases, to fill and return to the Board, reports such as I have 
 in ray hand ? — In all cases, if the inspection takes place in spring, if after the 1st of July 
 he does not send in that report, as I bring the latest information myself to the Governors, 
 I bring in my reports in October or the beginning of November. There is also another 
 return which the master gives, signed by the clergyman of the jjarish. 
 
 21688. Is any return made of the number of attendances of the clergyman appointed to 
 superintend the school ? — No. 
 
 21689. Does he make any entry of his attendance in the report book ? — He may or may 
 not. If you look to the queries put to me, you wiU see this observation — " Are the roll, 
 register and report book kept as required ; is there any observation of importance in the 
 latter, and does it appear from it that the school is often visited." 
 
 21690. The questions to be answered by the superintendent imply, tliat he exercises a 
 very constant surveillance over the school, such as, " Is the teacher punctual iu his attend- 
 ance during school-hours" ? — The Governors ask me that question too ; if there be any com- 
 plaint I ask tho question, if not I pass it over.
 
 128 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DpBLtv. 2I()9L Tlin suponntcndcnts neglect to inalcc entries of tlieir visits to the scliools? — They 
 
 do, very often. Wliat I mean is, they do not necessarily or uniformly do so. 
 
 SclLTf"m,^e'fl, 21092. -\re you satisfied, as a matter of fact, that their attendance is so regular and 
 
 Erasmus' Smith, Exq. frequent as to enable them, in a satisfactory vsay, to fill up this particular report? — I 
 
 Kcv. n. Hamilton, think so. I must say that the clergy are in the habit of giving their support to have any 
 
 suggestion made carried out, vrliere it is possible, and they are always willing to give us 
 
 every sup])ort in their power. 
 
 21(593. What amount of inspection on the part of the resident superintendent would 
 you think necessary in order to make such superintendence effectual":' — I could not 
 give an opinion upon tjiat, as the question entirely depends upon what other duties they 
 have to perform, and the efficiency of the master. 
 
 2IC94. i think, on a point of inspection, wc have a witness who is competent to offer 
 an opinion, and we might expect j'our opinion? — I could not say. The amount of super- 
 intendence varies very much ; when there is a good master, sometimes the clergyman leaves 
 the school in the hands of the master. 
 
 21(59.5, Could you state what you believe to be the greatest amount of superintendence 
 given ? — I believe the Dean of Emly is in tlie school every day ; my reason for saying so, 
 is, I see his name entered in the report book every day. 
 
 21696. What is the minimum amount of superintendence? — Oh, I could not say; I should 
 say in some cases, the school is left very much in the schoolmaster's hands. 
 
 21(597. Could it happen that any of your schools was left unvisited by the superin- 
 tendent ? — Scai'cely. 
 
 21698. Is it po.ssible ? — It is possible, of course. 
 
 21699. Do you know if any sciiool has not been visited between one of your inspections 
 and the following one ? — I think it would be difficult for me to say I do ; but cither the 
 rector or curate is constantly in the school. 
 
 21700. When you make your inspection, do j'ou in.stitute inquiries for the pupose of 
 ascertaining whether the superintendent does visit the school? — I ask the master "Who visits 
 you?" and so on ; but it generally passes as a matter of course, as I do not think it my 
 duty to inquire into the clergyman's duties. 
 
 21701. You do not institute such inquiries as a systematic part of the duties of yotir 
 inspection ? — Just so ; I ask " Are you visited by the clergyman or his family," and I enter 
 whether they are vi.sited or not. 
 
 21702. Mr. Stephens. — Do you put these answers down in writing? — Yes. 
 
 21703. Have you got those reports? — All I ever made, e.xcept one or two. 
 
 21704. I have no recollection that these annual returns of your inspection have been 
 submitted to the Commissioners ? — No ; merely the forms. 
 
 21705. The Commissioners will bo glad to see the returns of your last inspection 
 of all the schools? — It is not complete yet; and 1 tell you why — I was ill. 1 have got 
 some schools, the reports on which are not submitted to the Governors; but I can give 
 
 •° three fourths of them at lea.st to you, and the wdiole of the otlier fourth is done, with the 
 
 exception of five schools, which I did not visit, in consequence of my illness. 
 
 21706. The objects of the Commissioners will be quite as well attained, if they obtain 
 from you a complete report of your inspection for the previous year? — You shall have it. 
 
 21707. Rev. Dr. Graves. — U'hat is done with these returns when presented to the 
 Governors? — Ilere is an abstract for the year 1855, so far as it goes; but it is incomplete 
 from the want of my report. The Governors make no remarks on the superintendent's report, 
 until they get mine. 
 
 21708. As I understand, you not only make returns showing the result of your inspection, 
 but also riia'cc an abstract of each return, so as to present a general view of your inspection ? 
 — I send the reports and abstracts around to three Governors, who arc called a sub-com- 
 mittee ; then each makes his own note in the abstract. There are two divisions, one for 
 me, and one for the Governors. 
 
 21709- What steps are taken by the Governors on the receipt of these returns and 
 abstracts so furnished by the inspector? — I send them to the sub-committee; and when they 
 have looked over them, they arc retiu'ued to me, with (|ueries sonietiuK^s to the effect, " What 
 do you moan by tliis?" and matters whicli I am called on to exjilain. If there be any import- 
 ant change to be made in the management of a school, they express their opinion upon it, 
 and it is then brought before the notice of the general meeting of the Governors ; but the 
 decision of the sub-committee is considered final. 
 
 21710. I observe you take occasion to comment upon the efficiency or intelligence of the 
 master ? — Certainly. 
 
 21711. Wliat means are taken by the (lovernors to encourage diligcmce and good conduct 
 on the part of the schoolmasters ? — There is a gratuity of X5, and in some cases of £10, 
 which the Governors give as they think fit. 
 
 21712. Are the gratuities in all cases given as the reward of merit? — I think they are, 
 if not forfeited. I recommend them; in fact, the Governors look to my recommendation, 
 and I do not recommend for a gratuity uidess I sec reasons for doing so. 
 
 21713. Is there not a ride that no gratuities shall bo given to masters until they have 
 been a certain time a]>i)ointcd ? — Yes, that is, a man who has not been a year appointed 
 has no right to a gratuity, but when ! give a good report sometimes the gratuity is given. 
 
 21714. In point of fact, arc gratuities given to those not a year appointed? — Very 
 seldom. 
 
 21715. The distribution of premiums of books is made annually? — Yes, regularly, as
 
 EVIDENCE. 129 
 
 soon iis my reports arc lookod over. 1 rotuni ciglit or ten of the best masters, and lot the HuuLit*. 
 
 Govorniirs clioii.se tlirec or four of thorn. 
 
 21710. I shouhl like to ho satisfied on tlie ]>6mt to wliieli [ Iiave called your attention, '^JfT?'''''',"^ I''' 
 
 , , . . . ,' , , • i. 1 ;■ 1 i fichonis founded Oy 
 
 whether gratuities are given to masters who Jiave not Ijeen ajjpointeu lor a complete Krasmni, Smith, Ksq. 
 year ? — Very seldom. ]{ev. H. Ilamilton. 
 
 21717. Are there cases of exception ? — When a man is appointed in February, I stretch 
 a point for Iiim, though it is not strictly the rule to give him a gratuity ; but if appointed 
 after F^thruary, it is only a special favour, when 1 am able to give a very good report, in 
 fact, a first-rato report. 
 
 21718. What regulation is in force with reference to tlie supjjly of school requisites? — 
 The usual course is, that the local persons must pay half, and the Governors pay lialf. In 
 the cases of some schooLs, the (iovernors pay the wliole ; but the general rule is, they 
 expect the local persons to pay tlie half. 
 
 21719. As an inspector, do you iind that your English schools are generally adequately 
 sujiplicd with school recjuisite.s ? — In a great many places I iind they are not. 
 
 21720. What steps do you take when you Iind the supply not suliicient ? — The Gover- 
 nors have two ways of granting re([uisites — one is upon my report, the other is upon the 
 ai)plication of the local clergy. 
 
 21721. Do you not find that the efficiency of the school and the master depend very 
 much on this supply being kept up? — Yes; it is vain to expect good masters when they 
 are not supplied with requisites ; it is asking them to make bricks without straw. I think 
 wc have a better supply now. 
 
 21722. You mention that the English scliools are occasionally visited by the inspectors 
 of the Church Education Society ; under what circumstances ? — They are in connexion 
 with the Church Education Society for the purpose of inspection, and sometimes for the 
 purpose of getting requisites, or half requisites, and in such cases the Church Education 
 Society's inspectors visit them. 
 
 21723. Such schools are partly su])iilied with requisites by your Board, and partly by 
 the Board of the Church Education Society, and they are subject to inspection by both? — 
 This is the case, particularly in the counties of Antrim and Tyrone ; they are nearly all 
 in connexion with the Church IMucation Society; their masters attend the annual exami- 
 nation, and now get premiums, but the Church Education Society do not expend any large 
 sums where the school is under the Board of Erasmus Smith. 
 
 21724. In such a case as that, to whom does the master look as the supreme governing 
 authority? — To the Board of Erasmus Smith, of course. 
 
 21725. It appears from what you have stated, that very considerable pains arc taken by 
 you to institute an effective inspection into the condition of the English schools. 1 would 
 wish to repeat a question I put just now — whether you think this inspection, so carried on, 
 is sufficient, supposing that you were able to do all that you would desire, and considering 
 that it is of necessity only annual? — I suppose two inspections would do better than one; 
 that is all 1 can say. There used to be two inspectors, and in the famine time my office 
 
 was united with that of registrar. One was dispensed with when the funds of the Board ■*" 
 
 were very low. 
 
 2172G. I wish to ask you, whether you do not think that the effect of an inspection is 
 somewhat interfered with, by giving "notice to the schoolmaster of your intended visit ? 
 — I do not agree with you, and I will give you my reasons. It woidd not he a f;;ir test if 
 I visited the school on a fair day, or under circumstances in which there might be no school 
 at all. I always tell the master— show me the best school you can, show me your average ; 
 I treat the meii as honest men. I have often to cross-examine the masters on a breach of 
 rules, and trifling matters of that kind, and. with very few exceptions, I have found them 
 always to toll me the truth ; and, therefore, 1 have treated them always as honest men, and 
 as men who are desirous to do the best they can. If I went to them on a sudden, I 
 should, perhaps, fix on the worst tlay in the year, or on a day they could not get the school 
 together ; and always, if a fair or market interferes, and that a man writes to me to appoint 
 another day, I always alter my days to meet liis wishes. If in any case I suspected^ man 
 was acting unfairly," I have always applied to the clergyman of the parish, wlio, in nine 
 cases out of ten, is with me at the place. 
 
 21727. He would not he able to guard against your being deceived if his own attend- 
 ance was not regular ? — I do not think the a'tteiulance of the clergymen comes under my 
 province. I ask the master who visits ; and having inquired into that, I do not think I liave 
 a right to say more. 
 
 21728. That answer bears upon the question I put before, whether it is possible for 
 you, under the circumstances, to conduct an inspection in the elaborate way you desire? — 
 I have very often said to the master. 1 wish I could devote a week to yom- school. 
 
 2172!). Do you take any steps for the purpose of verifying the numbers set down in the 
 report book ? — No. 
 
 21730. Do you compare the gross total in your own return with the gross total given 
 by the masters ? — They are given by the maste"rs in both instances. They are given to me 
 by the master, from his own document, and given to the Board in another. 
 
 21731. Do you count the number of pupils on the day you attend ?— I do, sometimes; 
 but 1 generally make the master do it. 
 
 21732. Is not that the number entered in this return ?— You will find it in the third 
 column on the roll. 
 
 21733. If you found, on looking through all your returns, that the number present at the 
 Vol. II. ^ ' - - ^ S
 
 130 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DnBLiN. inspection faUs far short of tlie average attendance, would not that lead you to conclude 
 
 The Cover f th '^^^^^''^ ^^^^ *^^^ returns were inaccurate, or that an effort was made to secure a better 
 
 Schoohfoundcd hy attendance than usual on the day of your inspection ? — It ought to be a little above the 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. average m such a case, because a man ought to bring forward his puj)ils well on such an 
 
 Rev. H. H.irailtoii. occasion. I never did make that calculation. 
 
 ■ 21734. It lias occurred to mo as a desirable thing, that the averages, as returned, should 
 be compared with the numbers returned as actually present ? — Averages are very decep- 
 tive. I will tell you what happens, so as to illustrate v.hat I mean ; and I have also 
 apprized the Governors that I do not give my opinion on account of averages. In some 
 parts of the country the children will attend very well during some months, and do 
 not attend at all during the summer. When I visit in the month of March, I find an 
 average of sixty for the last half-year; and then, when I go in October, I find the average 
 thirty for that half. This takes place in the neighbourhood of Tyrone, and often puts me 
 in a difficulty with respect to the averages, which I consider very deceptive — I mean 
 decejJtive as a test of the goodness of the school. 
 
 21735. There are, no doubt, other facts to be looked to; but they, at all events, show 
 
 what they are intended to show; they show on the whole, the amount of attendance . 
 
 — I remarked about that to the Governors. I take the average of the year, taking into 
 account the bad months and the good months. I strike the average, as near as I can, 
 to the 1st of May and 1st of November, and I find the latter half of the year better than 
 the former one. 
 
 2173(j. I have asked such questions as I intended to put to you with reference to the 
 management and inspection of the English schools. If you have any further statement to 
 make with regard to them, or any explanation to give arising out of what you have already 
 said, the Commissioners will be happy to hear it ? — Do you seek information with respect 
 to any particular school ? 
 
 21737. My object in examining you is to get a general view of the operations of the 
 Board. I will now ask you some questions with reference to the management of the 
 grammar schools ? — I have no official connexion with them, except as registrar. I have 
 no control over them. 
 
 21738. I apply to you as registrar. Have the Governors laid down any course of 
 instruction to be pursued by the masters in the grammar schools ? — I never heard of any. 
 
 21739. Do you hold it to be your duty, as inspectoi', to inspect or visit the grammar 
 schools? — No; but 1 see three of them every year in my course, in consequence of being 
 in the neighbourhood ; but I have no official connexion with them, except as registrar. 
 
 21740. Vv^liat was the character of the grammar schools which you visited? — I have 
 visited them all. I have seen them all, but I have no connexion with them save as 
 registrar : tlmt is, I receive the half-yearly returns, manage the correspondence between 
 them and the Governors, pay the salaries, and so on. 
 
 21741. But it is not your duty to examine the pupils? — Oh, no. 
 
 21742. Or to see that the school is maintained in a state of efficiency as you are bound 
 to do in the case of the English schools ? — No. 
 
 21743. Is there any other person employed to visit and inspect the grammar schools for 
 this purpose ? — There is no other person. I have examined in the grammar schools, but 
 merely as a friend of the master. 
 
 21744. Have you got before you the Report of the Commissioners of 1809-12 ? — I have. 
 2174.5. Would you turn, if you please, to the charter at page 22G ? — I have it. "The 
 
 same school-masters, ushers, and scholars, shall be from time to time visited and approved 
 of in such manner as is hereafter in these presents expressed." 
 
 2174G. I do not ask you for any opinion upon the charter, but simply inquire whether, 
 in the performance of your duty as registrar, you have been directed to visit these grammar 
 schools ? — Never. 1 have been in the habit of examining for the master of the Drogheda 
 school ; and had it not been for this commission, and other circumstances, 1 would have 
 been there at this time. 
 
 21747. Have you been in the habit of examining thei-e in consequence of being directed 
 to do so ? — No ; simply as Mr. Lacy's friend. 
 
 21748. jVi-e you aware that any visitation of tlie grammar schools has been conducted 
 under the authority, and by the direction of the Governors ? — There was a visitation once 
 held at a school in Tij)perary, many years ago, when the Governors sent down specially 
 to inquire into certain circumstances. 
 
 21749. Do you know of any other visitation having been held? — I never heard of any. 
 
 21750. For instance, if there was a great falling off in the attendance, and the school 
 thus indicated, prima facie, that it was not in an efficient state, would the Governors 
 in.stitute an inquiry ? — 1 should rather see the case in which it has ]ia[)pencd. 
 
 21751. Have the Governors, in any other case, held a visitation ? — If you refer to the 
 minutes, .shortly before my ap[)(uiitnient, as to the removal of the late Mr. Eaton from the 
 Gahvay school, you will sec the practice. 
 
 21752. In the Registry Book, Vol. IV., page 230, the minute with reference to the 
 appointment of Mr. Eaton is recorded; he was appointed 2Gth June, 1838. 
 
 21753. W(juld you turn to the Registry Book of the Governors, Vol. V., page 50, under 
 the date of ;May 22nd, 1848 ? — ^Tho Board having received the most unfavourable reports 
 of the Gahvay grammar school — 
 
 '= Ordered — That ISIr. lOaton, the master, be called upon to resign forthwith, and 
 bo informed that if he does not, the Governors will order a visitation."
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 131 
 
 21754. Would you turn to Vol. V., page 54, of the Registry Book of the Governors, under 
 the date of the 8th .Tunc, 1848 ? — " Mr. Eaton's resignation and letter, dated 7tli instant, 
 having been also read : — 
 
 "Ordered — That the resignation bo accepted, and tliat under Mr. I'laton's" peculiar 
 circumstances, a retiring salary of 150 per annum be given ; Mr. Eaton to be informed 
 that the Board have fixed the 3rd of July for the election of a new master ; that they will 
 leave him the crops, under the expectation that he will give up the house as soon as 
 possible, in order that tiie repairs may be completed ; that the Board cannot entertain the 
 question about the half-year's salary until the house be given up." 
 
 21755. It appears, then, that in this instance, tlie Governors tlireatencd a visitation, but 
 did not actually hold it ? — Because the master had resigned in tlie mean time. I merely 
 know about the circumstances of this case fi'om the book placed in my hand. 
 
 21756. The visitation was held in consequence of the Governors having received the 
 most unfavourable reports of the scliool ? — He had grown very old and feeble, and was 
 not able to cany on the school. 
 
 21757. And after being master for ten years, he was then allowed a retiring salary of 
 £50 per annum ? — Yes. 
 
 21758. Is it the practice of the Board of Governors to give retiring pensions to the 
 masters of tlie grammar, or of the English schools? — It is not. 
 
 21759. In looking over the accounts I find several old masters and mistresses con- 
 tinuing to receive their allowances — perliaps you could explain that to me ? — I do not 
 know of any case, except tiiat of John and Jane Atkinson, who retired some years ago, 
 and received a jicnsion of £I5 each ; he is dead, but Jane Atkinson is living. 
 
 21760. Were there any pecuhar circumstances in that case? — I suppose so; but I do 
 not know what they were. 
 
 217(il. The Governors did give pensions, and do not now? — They did; there is Mr. 
 Needham, at £100, Irish, but it was given in consequence of his having been afflicted with 
 a paralytic stroke, some years ago, from wliicli he is recovering : the late inspector, Mr. 
 Otway, has a pension of £40; and John and Jane Atkinson. I do not think there arc any 
 other instances. 
 
 21762. You say the Governors have laid down no rule with regard to the granting of 
 pensions ? — They do not grant them now. I do not think they are authorized to do it. 
 
 21763. Do you not think it would be an advantageous system to grant superannuation 
 allowances to those who deserved them as the reward of long and faithful service ? — I do 
 not like to give any opinion on the subject, as, perhaps, I am an interested party myself. 
 
 21764. It appears that this question relative to granting pensions, has been recently 
 brought before the Governors. Would you be so good as to read this letter of the 3rd of 
 November, 1854, addressed to the Board by the incumbent of Donadea parish, the Rev. 
 Mr. Walker ? — That school was discontinued in consequence of the patron using a portion 
 of the premises, I believe, as a glebe-house. They did not like that ; the patron and 
 Governors disagreed, and he withdrew the school. This is the letter : — 
 
 " Board-room of the Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 "11, Kildare-street, 3rd November, 1854. 
 " Mr DEAR Sir, — The memorial of Patrick Legatt was read yesterday for the Gover- 
 nors, and they direct me to say in reply, that they have no power to grant pensions. 
 From Sir Gerald Aylraer's letter it would seem as if the schools were still to continue at 
 Donadea ; but if not, 1 doubt not other institutions might be had equally good, as neither 
 Legatt nor his wife is past their labour. 
 
 " Yours very sincerely, 
 " Rev. Walker." " Hugh Hamilton. 
 
 21765. I place that letter in your hands for the purpose of directing your attention to the 
 terms in which the refusal is convoyed ; you stated there, that the Board had no power 
 to grant pensions? — If you look to the minutes, you will see the circumstances stated. 
 
 21766. [^Secretary. — This is the minute of the standing committee of 2nd of November, 
 1854. — " Read memorial from late master and mistress at Donadea for pensions,— Ordei-ed, 
 ' That the Governors have not power to comply. The registrar was requested to make 
 inquiry as to the competency of these teachers to take charge of another school.' "] 
 
 21767- Has the standing committee power to decide on a question of that kind? — Every 
 thing, except the legal matters belonging to the Board; but ordinary questions they have. 
 
 21 768. As the Governors do not visit the grammar schools, and do not hold visitations, or 
 carry on a regular system of inspection, what means do they take of superintending the 
 course of instruction adopted in them ? — I do not know that they take any. They have a 
 return of the pupils who go in for exhibitions in the college, and in that way they have the 
 means of knowing what the school is doing. I think, having employed the best men they can, 
 and men of station and ability, they leave their management as much as possible in their hands. 
 
 21769. Have they taken any steps with a view to the promotion of any particular studies 
 to be pursued in such of the schools as are under their management ? — No. 
 
 21770. Have they done any thing to encourage the study of the modern languages ? — At 
 Galway there was an arrangement attempted, but I do not think it has been successful ; it 
 was made, not with the Governors, but with Mr. Berwick. 
 
 21771. Have the Governors established libraries in connexion with these 
 schools? — No. 
 
 Vol. II. S 2 
 
 DunLiK. 
 
 TIlc Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded by 
 
 Krasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 HcT. H. Hamilton.
 
 132 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 21772. Have any applications been made to them to do so '.'. — Never, that I lieard of; they 
 
 The Co^or, of the """ould not have funds for .such a purpose at all. 
 
 Scliooh fo'ii'dc'd by 21773. ^\ hat do they do with rcsjjcct to the supply of scliool requisites? — I never heard 
 Erasmus Sihiih, Esq. of an application for school requisites, because the boys are supposed to pay their own 
 J{ev. H. ll.imilton. expenses. 
 
 21774. Have not the Governors established a system of medals whicli are distributed 
 upon certain terms; are you aware of tiic regulations respecting the award of these 
 medals? — They arc given to boys wlio have obtained honors in classics and English, 
 and one in French. Dr. King, of tlic Ennis scliool, wijuld not accept them on these terms. 
 We only supply medals to Galway and Drogheda. The master makes application, which 
 is laid belore the Governors, and they grant it as a matter of course. 
 
 21775. j\Ir. Hallowell has stated that he understood the terms on which these medals 
 were awarded were loft to his own discretion ? — 1 siip|josc so. 
 
 21776. You seem to tliink that some rules liave been laid down by the Governors? — I do 
 not know ; but the medals are i.ssued tlirough me, as registrar ; the master sends me the 
 names of the pupils, and I forward them. 
 
 21777. You are not aware of the Board having laid down any special regulations as to 
 the terms on which they are to be issued ? — I think general proticiency during the half-year. 
 Dr. King docs not accept them. 
 
 21T7S. Wliat steps have been taken by the Governors to ascertain that tlie grammar 
 schools are maintained in a proper state of repair, both externally and internally? — Once 
 a-year, or lialf-year, 1 am not sure which, we get certificates from tlie Warden of Galway, 
 as to the state of repair, and that is done before the master receives his salary. 
 
 21779. These repairs are stopped out of the master's salary? — No; practically not. The 
 master may lay out a small thing, but I know the Governors, prior to my appointment, laid 
 out a very large sum in Drogheda ; and two or three small sums since my appointment, and 
 Mr. Lacy lias laid out some money on it. 
 
 21780. In tlie copy of the rules lianded in by ]\Ir. Tiiorp, are, T find, these rules set forth. 
 — " Tlic orders of tlie lotli January, 1730, wliicli subject the several schoolmasters to the 
 repairs of their respective houses and schoolhouses, are revived, and to be enforced ; that 
 said masters be required to make all repairs, not as formerly in a slight and superficial, but 
 in tlie most substantial and e.Tectual manner, and annually to return certificates according 
 to the said former orders and afhdavits of workmen appointed by the ])ersons certifying, 
 or the treasurer, to view and report the trne state of tlie buildings, and every part of them. 
 
 "Tiiat to enable the said sdioolmasters to defray the greater expense of these substantial 
 and effectual repairs, an annual addition be made to tiie salary of each of them of £33 68. 8d. 
 during tlie pleasure of the Board; this addition to take place from the 1st of May instant." 
 
 217S1. Does not that rule intimate that the obligation to keep tlie houses in repair rests 
 with those masters whose salaries were raised from 100 marks to £100 a-year; and Mr. Barlow 
 makes this observation — "Tlie Governors eitlier hold bonds, or half-a-ycar's .salary from 
 masters to insure compliance witli the fiftli rule?" — In the cases of Tijjperary and Ennis, 
 there Avas a half-year's arrears due, so that in tliese cases the obligation rests on the masters. 
 
 21782. I understood you to say that tlie repairs were executed at the cost of the 
 Governors? — So they are. If the master sends word he wants to have such and such a 
 thing done, which he cannot afford, and makes a good case, the Governors help him; but 
 • the obligation is on tlic masters. 
 
 21TS3. Do the Governors occasionally, and at their own discretion, make grants for 
 repairs"? — Yes. 
 
 21784. The obligation is thrown in the first instance, upon tlic masters, in consideration 
 of raising their salaries from 1'66 13«. 4d. to £100 ? — Yes. 
 
 2178.5. Do the masters of the grammar schools make returns as to the condition of the 
 premises? — Yes. 
 
 21780. Are tliose returns made ])eriodicany ? — Tliey are made half-yearly, I think. 
 
 21787. In wliat way are tliey verified? — By tlie \V;udcn of Galway, and the Vicar of 
 Drogheda. 
 
 21788. Are not returns received from the; masters, as to the general management of 
 the school ?— Regularly. 
 
 2178!). Will you state what is the iiatur(" of these hiilf-ycarly returns regularly received 
 from the masters, as to the general maiKigement of the school? — It is mertdy an abstract 
 form stating the nuinhcr of boys com])ctent to read ; but the Governors very often ask the 
 masters to inform them on various subjects. 
 
 217ilO. But docs the form n^quire them to report the instruction given? — Oh, they do 
 not. 
 
 21791. These returns, then, do not make up for the want of inspection ? — I do not think 
 they do. It would be very hard to inspect the ginmmar sclntols. 
 
 217!j2. Do the ])oor rates and taxes fall on tb(^ masters of the grammar schools? — Yes ; 
 except in the case of Drogheda. wlujrc the (iovernors pay the poor I'ates. 
 
 21793. Arc you acquainted witli the reasons why a different practice is adopted in that 
 scho(d, from what is followed in the case of the remaining grammar schools? — I am not. 
 
 21794. Have remonstrances lieen made by the masters of the other grammar schools, 
 through you, as registrar, or to your knowledge, complaining of this exclusive ]M-acticc? — 
 Not of the exclusiveness of the practice, but of how heavily the rates pressed on them. 
 
 21795. The conij)laint was as to the amount of j)rcssure ? — Yes; they pay the ground 
 rent of Ennis, whicli is eight guineas a-year.
 
 EVIDENCE. 1?3 
 
 2179(J. Will you be ko <^oo(1 aK to turn to pngc "i.'iO of the Appendix to tlic Nintli Iicport, Duulin. 
 
 and read the passage of the charter beginning, "And wiien the rent?" — "And when the rent „.. 
 
 nhall exceed £300 pei- annum, tliere kIuiII be yearly bestowed in repairing and beautifying sAnnhfmwkd h'l' 
 
 the said schools and schoolliouses, as by tlie said Governors, or any seven or more of them, Erumms' Smith, J-mj. 
 
 whereof the treasurer for tiu; time being (if he be able to attend) to be always one, sliall licv. H. Hamilton. 
 
 be tiiought convenient; and moreover, tliere sliall be jjaid unto each usiier, wjiicb siiail bo 
 
 placed in tlie said several and respective schools, the yearly stipend or pension of £20 per 
 
 annum, at tlie said several schoolliouses respectively, at or upon every Ist day of May and 
 
 Ist day of November, or within sixty days after, by even and equal portions, so always that 
 
 it he in the discretion of the said Governors to allow or not to allow an usher in any of the 
 
 said schools, acc(U'ding as they shall find tlie number of said scholars in such schools, or 
 
 the revenues of the said Corporation to increase or diminish, and so alwa\s that there iiev(!r 
 
 bo more than on(! usher in any one school to be paid by the said Corporation and their 
 
 charges."' 
 
 21797. It appears at first siglit, that the repairing and beautifying of the grammar 
 schools was intended to bo provided by the Governors out of their rents ? — So it is to a 
 great extent. I know that in the year 1842 a very large sum was laid out ])y the Gover- 
 nors on Droghcda. 
 
 21798. What is the highest salary paid to the master of any grammar school? — £100 
 a-year. 
 
 21799. Ai-e you aware whether any question has been entertained by the Governors, 
 with regard to the increase of salaries of the masters of the grammar schools ? — They have 
 increased them all within the last year ; they only gave what was allowed by the charter. 
 
 21S00. What are the siilaries allowed to the assistants in the grammar schools? — Mr. 
 Lacy is allowed £50, to dispose of as he pleases for assistants ; Mr. Kelly, the second 
 master, has i'90 ; and Mr. licardou has none, his .school not being large enough to afford 
 one. 
 
 21801. Are not the assistant-masters of the grammar schools very frequently changed ? 
 —Mr. Kelly has been there a very long time ; Jlr. McCarthy, of Drogheda, has been there 
 since Mr. llallowell's appointment to Gal way; Dr. King has frequently changed his masters, 
 for what reason I do not know, as I do not pay them. 
 
 2 1 802. Is there any provision made for promoting a.ssi.stant-niaster.s, so as to give them 
 inducements to continue in the service ? — 1 do not know that there is. The second master 
 of Drogheda school is generally appointed to another school, which is considered a step. 
 Dr. King was the second master of Drogheda ; Mr. Reardon was also second master of 
 Droglioda a long time ago. 
 
 21803. Have you yourself ever vi.sited the grammar school at Ennis ? — Yes, once. 
 
 21804. In what state of repair did you find the schoolroom? — There is one floor very 
 bad, which drew my attention ; every thing else I think very good. 
 
 21805. Are the floors and furniture altogether of the schoolroom in such a state as you 
 would expect to find them in a grammar school? — I do not remember that any thing 
 attracted my attention, except one iloor up-stairs. where the boards are very much patched. 
 
 21S0G. Has a memorial been presented on the part of Dr. King, praying assistance 
 enabling him to make repairs? — A good many memorials. 
 
 21807. lias the grant been made? — The Governors granted liim £.")0 in consideration 
 of his having done something to the premises last year, or the year before ; they gave hitn 
 £50 as a gl•atuity^ 
 
 21808. Have you visited Galway grammar school ? — I was there this day week. 
 
 21809. Is that school and house in a good state of repair? — I think so ; but I should 
 state that Mr. Hallowell comjdained that some of the window sashes were not good. 
 
 21810. Is the schoolroom of the grammar school at Galway as neat and as well fitted up 
 as the sclioolroom of the English school at Galway? — It is of a rough description. 
 
 21811. You have visited both ? — I inspected the English school officially this day week. 
 
 21812. I have the most distinct recollection of the state of repair in which the schools 
 were when the Commissioners visited Galway? — The English school is well fitted up; the other 
 school is also very well ; and the Governors laid out a sum of money, £20, on that house, 
 and I think it looks well. I do not remark any thing in the schoolroom of the grammar 
 school ; it is of a rough description ; and the desks are old-fashioned. 
 
 21813. Have you visited any of the great grammar schools in the north of Ireland, 
 such as Dungannon and Armagh ? — I was in Armagh not long ago. 
 
 21814. What comparison would you institute between the schoolrooms at Armagh and 
 Dungannon, and the schoolrooms at Galway and Ennis? — I do not know, as I was not in 
 Dungannon since Dr. Darley left it ; but I think the schooboom at Galway, though rough, 
 is not bad. 
 
 21815. Do you recollect the state of the desks at Ennis ? — I do not. 
 
 21816. Have you any duty to perform with respect to the Galway grammar school ? — - 
 None. I stopped in ^Ir. HallowcH's house ; and brought him down with me on the last 
 occasion to the English school, as I wished to have his opinion as to how things were 
 going on. 
 
 21817. What is the gross amount returned by you as the annual outlay of the Governors 
 upon the grammar schools under their management ? — I could not say ; but by referring 
 to the return put in you can ascertain. 
 
 21818. I want to know the gross sum paid by the Governors towards the maintenance 
 of their grammar schools ? — It appears to be £716,
 
 134 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded by 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Rev. H. Hamilton. 
 
 21819. I ask the question foi' the purpose of calling attention to the fact that the sum 
 expended upon grammar schools was less than one-third the sum expended on English 
 schools ? — The English schools are upwards cf 1 00 in number. 
 
 21820. Can you state, Mr. Hamilton, when the last visitation of the Tippcrary grammar 
 school took place ? — I could not ; Dr. Cotton, at the request of the late Archbishop, went 
 there. 
 
 21S21. Archdeacon Cotton is one of the Governors? — lie is now; and I suppose he was 
 at that time. 
 
 21822. Mr. Stephens. — With tlie exception of that investigation, none was held there for 
 the last twenty years ? — I never heard of any. 
 
 21823. Kev. Dr. Graves. — Would you be so good as to turn to page 225, and read the 
 passage of the charter with regard to the admission of free scholars? — "And the said Erasmus 
 Smith, during his life, and after his decease, or during his sickness, or absence from Ireland, 
 the Governors hereafter named, and their successors for ever, and the Governors of the said 
 schools, for the time being, and their successors, or any seven or more of them, (whereof the 
 treasurer for the time being to be always one, if such treasurer shall be able to attend.) 
 shall have full power, licence, and lawful authority, at his and their wills and pleasures, 
 from time to time, and at, all times hereafter, to place therein such numbers of poor children 
 or scholars, not exceeding the number of twenty, in any of the said schools, (besides the 
 tenants' children of the said Era.smus Smith, his heirs, executors, or assigns, who are not 
 to be limited to any number.) as to him, the said Erasmus Smith, during liis life, and 
 after his decease, or during his sickness, or absence from Ireland, to the said Governors 
 and their successors, and to the Governors for the time being, and their successors, or 
 any seven or more of them, (whereof the treasurer for the time being to be always one, if 
 such treasurer be able to attend), shall seem convenient." 
 
 21824. Be so good as to state how the Governors have exercised this power vested in 
 them of placing free, in the grammar schools, a certain number of poor scholars ? — They 
 have done it in Galway and Drogheda, and the other schools. At Tippcrary, for instance. 
 
 2182-5. Was a discretionary power committed to the masters of receiving them ; or was 
 any order made for the purpose? — I do not know; the master acts without any order. 
 
 21826. Did not the Governors take some steps, about a year ago, for the purpose of 
 giving publicity to an order respecting the admission of free pupils ? — They advertised in 
 the newspapers that all applications for free admissions should come to them. 
 
 21827. Have they publislied any regulations as to the terms on which they would 
 receive free pupils? — The only arrangement is this: the application comes to me, and if 
 it is backed by any person whom the Governors know, is complied with. Very often it 
 is backed by the recommendation of the master, and it is complied with as a matter of course. 
 
 21823. flow many have applied for admission since this advertisement has appeared in 
 the newspapers ? — Not more than eight or ten ; there might be more. 
 
 21829. Can you assign a reason why the number of applicants should be so small? — No. 
 
 218.j0. Have not the Governors laid down limitations with regard to the age of the 
 applicants for free admission ? — They have within the last month ; they have restricted 
 the admission of free boys to the age of fourteen. 
 
 21831. It would appear that the attention of the Govei'nors has been more directed to 
 the admission of pupils within the last year than heretofore ? — Certainly. 
 
 21832. The schools of Drogheda, Galway, Tippcrary, and Ennis are called grammar 
 schools. Do you know whether the Governors have laid down any regulation rendering 
 it compulsory on the pupils who are received into them to receive a classical education ? — 
 I do not think they have laid down any rules. There were some boys in Drogheda some 
 time ago not receiving a classical education. 
 
 2IH33. According to the return which you read just now, there are no boarders in 
 Tij)perary at present ? — Yes. 
 
 21834. AVbat means have the Governors of ascertaining whether that school is conducted 
 in an efllcient manner or not ? — I do not know they Iiavc taken any. 
 
 21835. Are you aware whether they have taken any steps to ascertain it ?— I do not 
 think they have. 
 
 21836. In considering the question of the admission of free pupils, do you know whether 
 the Governors ever contemplated opening these free places to competition? — I never 
 heard of it. Every case stands on its own merits. The inability of the parents to pay is 
 the jnincipal question they consider. 
 
 21837. Arc you aware whether any of the masters of the grammar schools Lave evinced 
 any disinclination to receive free pupils? — I think not. 
 
 21838. Have no complaints of the masters' disinclination to receive free pupils been 
 brought before the Governors ? — I do not recollect ; if there have been, you have the 
 minutes before you. 
 
 2 1 839. Have tlierc been any to your knowledge? — None. 
 
 21840. Without the knowledge; of the; Governors, might they not, on tlie spot, disregard 
 application.? ? — I do not think they have. 
 
 21841. They might do so, inasmuch as the grammar schools are not under a good 
 system of inspection or visitation. J see by tiic charter these grammar schools are designated 
 free schools. Have the Governors taken any steps to define what is meant by the term 
 
 free school? — 'TJiat was imdor discussion at Armagh. 
 
 21 842. r.iit liave tlic Governors taken any steps ?- 
 any thing but what you haye heard. 
 
 -I do not know that they have done
 
 EVIDENCE. 135 
 
 21843. The rule relative to grammar scliools laid dmvn in the charter states, that it Dublin. 
 shall be lawful for each master to receive of every sciiolar, at his entrance into the scliool, „., ^ 7; — 
 
 two sliillings, e.xccpt the twenty ])oor scliolars in each school, and except the tenant.s to SvJu'oh fmmk'dhy 
 and inliabitauts upon tlio land and ]jossessions belonging tn ]!]rasnius Smith, who are to be Jirusmun Smuh, Es<i. 
 freely admitted, and freely taught. Arc you aware whether the practice is kept up of i!cv. 11. Hamilton, 
 receiving entrance iocs ? — I never heard of it. 
 
 21844. Have tlie Governors regulated the sti]iends payable by boarders or day scholars? 
 — For boardera, I think not. The matter was in dispute between them and tlio master of the 
 Tippcrary school ; and they ruled he could not cliarge as mucli for day scholars as he was 
 cliarging. 
 
 2I84.J. Mr. Stephens. — If I understand you ariglit, there is no inspection exercised 
 over the four grammar schools of Galway, Drogheda, Ti^ipcrary, and Ennis? — Tliere is no 
 regular inspection of them, but the Governors arc in constant communication with the 
 masters. If tliere is any complaint, it is investigated immediately; but there is no periodical 
 visitation or inspection. 
 
 21846. Can you refer me to any visitation of the Tipperaiy school? — There was, some 
 years ago. 
 
 21S47. Can you refer me to the evidence of that visitation ? — No. 
 
 21848. Was there an investigation? — Dean Cotton Iield one. 
 
 2184;). How many years ago? — In 1835, I think. 
 
 21850. Has there been any other investigation into the Tipperary school except that 
 one ? — None that I know of. 
 
 21851. Has there been any visitation or investigation of the Ennis school? — I never 
 heard of any. 
 
 2 ! 85'2. Was there any other kind of supervision ? — I know I wrote to Dr. King to explain 
 away a complaint that ho had no teacher of French. There was a long correspondence on 
 the subject, and I do not recollect any thing else. 
 
 218.53. Has there been any visitation of the school at Galway? — You have the case. 
 
 2185 I. Answer my question ? — None, except what has been alluded to. 
 
 21 855. What case was that ? — The case of Mr. Eaton. A visitation was threatened if lie 
 did not resign, and he did resign. 
 
 21856. With that exception has there been any interference with the Galway school? — 
 None. 
 
 21857. Has there been any visitation of the school at Drogheda? — I know that the 
 Governors went to see the repairs. 
 
 21858. So far as regards these four grammar schools, have you any means of ascertaining 
 whether the boys are badly, or well taught ? — 1 have no means of ascertaining. 
 
 21859. Are you not the sole inspector ? — I am. 
 
 21860. Then, of course, you can answer my question ? — It is not part of my duty to go 
 to the grammar schools as inspector. 
 
 21861. is it the duty of any other person ? — No. 
 
 21862. Ill point of fact has there been any visitation or supervision of these grammar 
 schooLs so far as regards the learning of the boys ? — No. 
 
 21863. Were there, in 1853, any exhibitions conferred on pupils educated in the schools 
 endowed by Erasmus Smith ? — There were several ; but you will see by reference to the 
 College Calendar. 
 
 21864. Were there any in 1851 ? — I cannot say; but I know the College Calendar is 
 correct. 
 
 21865. Have you no returns of your own independent of the College Calendar? — I 
 have ; but I have known the College Calendar to be accurate for many years. 
 
 21866. Will you be so good as to read the return contained in it, and tell me if it be 
 correct ? — I think, if there was any great discrepancy, I would remember it. 
 
 21867. Rev. Dr. Graves Would you be so good as to turn to the passage of the charter 
 
 at page 230 of the Ninth Report of the Commissioners of Education in Ireland? — I have it. 
 " And the residue of all the revenues and rents wliich shall remain after all the charges and 
 payments aforesaid fully made and satisfied, shall, during the continuance of such leases as 
 are now in force, be distributed and applied in manner following, viz., one full moiety thereof 
 to and for the binding out of poor childi'en to be apprenticed to and under such Protestant 
 masters as the said Governors, or any seven or more of them, whereof the treasurer for the 
 time being to be always one (if able to attend) shaU think fit ; and, after the expiration of 
 such leases, one moiety as aforesaid shall be applied partly towards binding out poor 
 children to be apprenticed as aforesaid, and partly towards clothing of poor scholars in 
 the said three grammar schools." 
 
 21868. Has ever any thing been done, so far as you are aware, in the way of binding out 
 apprentices by the Governors ? — No ; because I think the children in the grammar schools 
 at that time were rather above the class that are now bound as apprentices. 
 
 21869. lias there been any thing done towards the clothing of the poor scholars in the 
 so-called grammar schools ? — No ; and I think the same reason applies. 
 
 2 1870. Are there no boys placed and maintained in the Blue Coat Hospital by the 
 Governors of the Erasmus Smith's schools, and at their expense? — Yes. 
 
 21871. Are these boys apprenticed? — 1 suppose whatever regulation is in existence with 
 reference to the other boys in the Blue Coat Hospital, they are treated the same way. 
 
 21872. If you turn to the charter, at page 238 of the same report, you will find this pro- 
 vision — "And be it therefore enacted by tlie authority aforesaid, that the treasurer of the
 
 136 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Viiceriiors nf llic 
 
 SchiHiU founded I'll 
 Erannus Smith, E^q. 
 
 Rev. H. Hamilton. 
 
 Governors of the said schools, shall, out of the cash now in, or which shall hereafter come to 
 his hands, with all convenient speed, pay to the Governors of the said [losjtital and Free School 
 of King Charles II., Dublin, commonly called the lilue Coat Hospital, the said sum of £300 
 sterling, towards building an infirmary, as aforesaid ; and also find and provide bedding, and 
 other usual furniture for each room, for such boys as shall be by them placed in the said IJlue 
 Coat Hospital ; the keeping and repairing of which bedding and furniture is thereafter to 
 be charged in tlio annual expense for maintenance of the said boys," &c., &c. Is that pro- 
 vision carried into effect ? — It is done by the I due Coat Hospital out of the money I hand 
 them ; but it is not done out of the funds of the Governors. They make a calculation that 
 a certain number of boys cost so much, and they draw that sum. 
 
 21S73. Are you aware whether the Governors of the Board of Erasmus Smith's schools 
 superintend the progress and maintenance of those boys in tiic Blue Coat Hospital? — 1 
 know nothing of that. 
 
 21874. Are you aware whether they do any thing more tlian hand to the Governors of 
 the hospital a certain sum of money ? — That is done through me. The Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith's schools lodge a certain sum in bank to the credit of the Governors. 
 
 21875. I asked the question, because on looking over the minutes of the Governors, and 
 the minutes of the standing committee, I do not find any entries which have reference 
 to the boys' maintenance in the Blue Coat Hospital, except such minutes as have reference 
 to the sums of monev granted? — That is exactly what 1 was going to say. Might I make 
 a remark with reference to the free schools on the Governors' estates? 
 
 21876. Mr. Stephens — Certainly. — The grammar scliools now would not give an educa- 
 tion fitted to the situation in life of these tenantry in many places ; but they have boys' and 
 girls' schools on the estates (the English schools), and these schools are found very benefi- 
 cial to their tenantry, and to all intents antl pur[)oscs they are free. If there be any thing 
 charged, it is only to secure their attendance at the scliools. 
 
 21877- Uev. Dr. Graves — There is another class of free pu])ils, persons entitled to the 
 freedom of the schools, residing within a certain distance ? — There is no application for 
 payment to them. 
 
 21878. Are the pupils of these English schools to which I have referred, perfectly free? 
 — Generally so. Our English schools through the country are all free. AVhon I say that, 
 there is one penny a-week sometimes charged, and tliose wliose learning is advanced, paj' 
 perhaps more ; but poverty is no ground of exclusion from any of them. I have directed a 
 trifle to be paid, rathe? for the purpose of getting a punctual attendance, than any thing 
 else ; but all our English schools are entirely free, inasmuch as none aie refused from 
 poverty. 
 
 2187D. Does the report book of each of these schools indicate the payment made by 
 each of the pupils ? — No. 
 
 21880. Is there any return of their payments? — The master returns to me in the half- 
 yearly report, one of which is before you ; and it shows the number free, and how many 
 pay, and what the payment is. The payment is so trifling that it is hardly worth calculating. 
 
 '21881. Will these returns show how many are absolutely free in each school ? — Yes. 
 
 21882. In the tliird page of the charter I find that: — -"For the better maintenance 
 and continuance of the said free scliools, and the said cliaritable uses, intents, and purposes, 
 and that the same may have and take better effect, and that all and every the manours, 
 lands, tenements, and rents, and arrearages of rents, leversions. services and hereditaments, 
 goods, and cliattels, to be given, granted, conveyed, assigned, devised, willed, limited, or 
 appointed for the maintenance, sustentation, and relief of the sclioolmasters, and scholars, 
 &c." Has any question ever been raised before the Governors, whether the freedom of 
 the schools involved the maintenance of the scholars in the way of boarding and lodg- 
 ing? — I liave a recollection that somebody wanted to get his son a free boarder in (ialway, 
 but he was told there was no such thing. 
 
 21883. Was the question ever formally brought before the Governors, or the opinion of 
 counsel taken upon it? — Oh, no. 
 
 21884. Not so far as you arc aware? — Not that I am aware; the only time the question 
 was raised was the time I speak of. 
 
 2188,5. Jlr. Stephens. — AVhat is the sum of money annually paid by the Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith's Scliools to Clirist's Hospital, London ?— They have paid i'lOO a-year ever 
 since the reign of Charles II. 
 
 2 1880. You have stated that the College Calendar contains an account of tlio exhibitions 
 obtained by the pupils of the schools founded by Erasmus Smith. Can you show mo a 
 registry of them in your books? — You will find them in the minutes. 
 
 21887. How many exhibitions are there founded by the Governors in Trinity College, 
 Dublin? — I cannot tell without having the charter before me. 
 
 2 1 888. Refer to the charter and tell me ? — Twenty several exhibitions of £8 a-ycar, and 
 fifteen of £0 a-ycar. 
 
 21889. During the last ten years how many exhibitions have been granted? — Fourteen. 
 
 21890. How long ai'O such exhibitions held? — I think five years; tlie rule is there. 
 The Governors arc bound by law to give thirty-five (ixhibitions. Their own pupils, if 
 they are found deserving, have a right to these exhibitions in the first instance; they 
 arc examined along with the hoys from the Royal schools and a return is made to tiie 
 Governors, on which return they grant or withhold the exhibitions as they think fit; 
 the remaining exhibitions arc given to other students in college as rewards, or fall into tho 
 general funds of the college ; tiic Governors do not know what becomes of them.
 
 EVIDENCE. 137 
 
 21891. It socms that during five years, if your scholars had had equal merit with other Duulik. 
 boys, they would have Ijoen preferred in the first instance; and instead of having obtained .... ., ~~" 
 fourteen exliiliitiiins, they would have ohtaiiied fifty? — You are not quite riglit, because s'rhimu'fMimk'jhy 
 though fifty is nientioneil, perhap.s not more than three would be; successful. Emswux'.Smii/i, Esq. 
 
 21892. Are there not fifty exliibitions wasted, in conse(iuence of the boys not coming Ucv. II. Hamilton, 
 forward '? — That is not the case either. 
 
 21893. If fifty (jualitied boys from the Erasmus Smith's schools had come forw.ard, would 
 they not have received these exhibitions ? — Yes. 
 
 21894. Instead of that, tln-re were only fourteen who obtained them ? — Certainly. 
 
 21895. So far as regards pupils who arc educated in the Erasmus Smith's schools, tlie 
 diflercnce between fourteen and fifty has been thrown away ? — I tliink if you read the 
 clause carefully, you will find that clause does not desire the (Jovernors to found exhibitions 
 for their own boys, but for poor students. 
 
 2189(i. If fifty qualified boys, educated in Erasmus Smith's schools, had come forward, 
 would they not liave received the.se exhibitions ? 
 
 2IS97. [Secretary. — There are thirty-five standing exhibitions.] 
 
 2189S. There are never more than ten candidates for the exhibitions, who generally 
 get them ; and sometimes there are none. 
 
 21899- In ten years there were fifty exhibitions, and if fifty properly qualified boys, 
 who were educated in the Erasmus Smith schools, came forward, would they not have been 
 preferred to all other boys, educated no matter where ? — That case could not arise. 
 
 21900. I do not think it is likely to arise. 
 
 21901. llcv. Dr. Graves. — The Commis.sioncrs will not proceed furtlier with your exami- 
 nation at present, but it will no doubt be necessary to resume it at some future period. 
 
 [For further evidence as to Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools, see page 180.] 
 
 Vol. II.
 
 Dublin. 
 
 138 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin, Apul 11, 1856. 
 
 Present Marquess of Kildare, Chairman; Kev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, Mr. Hl'ghes, 
 
 and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 „ , , J, Hospital and Free School of King Charles TL, commonly called The Blue 
 
 Mdfintul and rice 
 
 s,h>vU<fKin<j Coat Hospital. 
 
 called the 21902. Secretary. — My Lord, at this court the case to be brought under the notice of 
 
 Blue Coat HK^pitul. ||^g Commissioners is that of the Hospital of King Charles II., at Oxmantown, commonly 
 Documentary called " The Blue Coat Hospital.'' This hospital was founded by Koyal Charter of King 
 
 Evidence. Charles II., which bears date the 5th of December, 1723. It recites — "That whereas 
 
 several of our subjects of our said city of Dublin and kingdom, being charitably affected 
 towards such as through age, sickness, or other accidents, are reduced to poverty, or dis- 
 abled to gain their living by their own labour, and piously considering also the great 
 benefit of the good education and instruction of youth, have proposed the erection, building, 
 and establishing of an hospital and free school within the liberties of our city of Dublin, 
 and have showed great willingness to contribute to so good a work, which they hope to 
 accomplish." The charter then goes on to convey certain land — " All that jjiece or parcel of 
 "■round on O.xmantown Green, near our said city of Dublin, on wliich the intended Hospital 
 and Free School is already begun to be built." It then goes on to convey that portion of 
 ground, and to state " that it shall for evermore hereafter, be, remain, and continue a 
 mansion house and place of abode for the sustentation and relief of poor children, aged 
 and impotent peojile, to be holden of us, or our heirs and successors." It then goes on — 
 " We do give and grant unto the said Mayor, Sherifis, Commons, and Citizens of our said city 
 of Dublin, and their successors for ever, full power and authority, at their will and pleasures, 
 from time to time, and at all times, to place therein such master or masters of the said 
 hospital, and such numbers of poor f)eople and children, and such officers or ministers of 
 the said hospital and free school, as likewise an able, learned, pious, and orthodox 
 minister, to be approved of from time to time by the Archbishop of Dublin for the time 
 beino- ; the said minister to read divine service, and preach and teach the word of God to 
 such as shall reside within the same, and catechise such children as shall be in the said 
 hospital or free school, as to the said Mayor, Sheriffs, Commons, and Citizens, and their suc- 
 cessors, or such as shall be appointed as aforesaid, shall seem convenient." It then goes on 
 
 to provide " That it shall and may bo lawful for the said Mayor, Sheriffs, Commons, and 
 
 Citizens, and their successors from time; to time, and at all times hereinafter, when and as 
 often as it shall be expedient or necessity shall require, to make, constitute, and ap])oint all 
 or any such apt, wholesome, and honest ordinances, statutes, rules, and orders, for or in 
 relation to the well governing of the said hospital and free school, or either of them, (or the 
 master or minister, belonging, or to be belonging,) as to them, the said Mayor, the Sheriffs, 
 Commons, and Citizens, and their successors, shall seem meet, convenient, or necessary." 
 It then enables the corporation to hold, not exceeding the value of £6,000 sterling, of landed 
 property, and it then goes on to provide that the " said governors or their successors shall 
 not do, nor suffer to be done at any time hereafter, any act or thing whereby any of the 
 lands, tenements, hereditaments, or the estate, which shall belong to the said corporation, 
 shall be conveyed, alienated, or transferred to any other use whatsoever, than to the uses 
 of the said ho.spital and free school ; and that the said governors for the time being shall 
 not make any other lease or leases of any of the lands, tenements, possessions, or heredita- 
 ments, which sliall belong to the said corporation, than for the term of forty- one years, of 
 houses or buildings, or ground to be built on, and of twenty-one years, of lands, tithes, or 
 other hereditaments; and those to be made cither in possession, or not above two years 
 before the expiration of the state in possession, and that without fine or income, at the best 
 yearly rent that bo id fide from good and solvent tenants may be had, and that no lease be 
 made" to any of the aforesaid governors." 
 
 2 1903. The Commissioners who inquired into the state of endowed schools from the years 
 1807-12, make a report upon the Blue Coat Hospital, which bears date 1 2th May, 1807. 
 In the appendix to that report they give the income of the King's Hospital for the year 
 1808. At that time the Stephen's-green and Oxmantown rents produced £210 1 Is. ii^d. ; 
 the lands of Noddstown, £1,4.59 Is. The nc.\t largest item is the tithes of Jlullingar, 
 £210; then there are some sm.all rents — Grangegorman, £.'3.'j 18.s.; Wido\v Morgan's, ditto, 
 £9; .lacob Loving's, ditto, £.'5(j; James Heed's, ditto, £72; John Ilutton, ditto, £23 Ids. 'M.; 
 Jacob Poole's, ditto, £12 7*. ; Thomas Wildridge's, ditto, £80 ; lands of Kilcotty, ditto (for 
 two lives only), £158 2«. ; Andrew Downey's, ditto, £24 6s. ; late Lord Mayor (of Com- 
 mons and Ball), £22 1.5s.; collections in the chapel (averaged at), £20 ; making a gross 
 total of £2,417 4.S. [)]-/l., with a casual revenue of £30. Tliey then give the income and 
 expenditure of the King's Hospital for ten years, from 179(i to 1797. The total income 
 for these years was £4,142 l.'is. 9iZ., which is made up in this way. The regular income 
 was £1,950 8s. Id.; arrears due in that year from former settlement, £.'504 4.s-. (kl.; balance 
 in agent's hands from ditto, £135 18s. 4J r/. ; Governors of Erasmus Smith's Charities for 
 the support of twenty boys, £387 2s. 3irf.; casual revenue that year, £1,365. The income 
 is then given for a number of years. ])ut only the totals. In 1798 it was £3,180 \?>s. 10(/.; 
 in 1799, £3,.580 12s. \ld.; in 1800, £3.2;J2 6s. \d.; in 1801, £3,830 As. :>\d.; in 1802,
 
 EVIDENCE. 139 
 
 £3,019 2s. Sd.; 1803, £3,724 14s. ^d., 1804, £3,2.'58 12.s. lOd.; 180.5, £4,7C2 11.* ; 180G, Dubun. 
 
 £3, 0.39 O.s. Ad. Then the cxpenditiiie for thche years I need not road, as it bears a fair pro- . . ~ — 
 portion to the income. The arrangement with respect to the boys to be maintained by the Scli'o'i'l "fKim' 
 Governors of Erasmus Smith's Scliool is then set out. Then it gives the salaries of the officers. < /»'/*<. //.; mmimnlj 
 The total income of tlie cliaiilain and master is £i53 19s : ai'ent and res^istrar, and actinii ,., 'y;*''"''« 
 steward, £i;i6 14s.; superannuated steward, il3l 14s.; houseke(;per, £«i is. ; writing and .^^ . 
 mathematical master, £151 !.?• \d., and surgeon, £.jO; wages to eleven inferior servants, and Kviiknce. 
 four superannuated servants, ditto, £100 1 Is. ijd., making a total of £797 'is. 7<Z. The number 
 of bo^'H received and apprenticed, for twelve years, is given, and In 1797 there were 25 ; 
 iu 1805 there was the greatest number, when there were 2'J ; and the least number was in 
 1806, when there were 12. The total number from 1797 to 1806 was 199 ; and from that 
 to 1808, 247. Then the number ap])renticed in the same time was '208, and the fee paid 
 with each boy was £5 ; and the boys were apprenticed to all trades, and some to the sea 
 service. It then gives a lisit of tlie school books used in the school, which I need not read. 
 
 21904. The arrangements by which the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Schools sup- 
 ported a certain number of boys in the Blue Coat Hospital, arose from the provision of their 
 charter. Under that charter they were bound to maintain and support a certain number of 
 boys, and for the maintaining and supporting of these boys they came to an arrangement, at 
 an early period, with the Governors of the Hospital of King Charles II., which arrangement 
 was sanctioned by a private Act of Parliament, 10 th of Geo. I., entitled "An Act for the further 
 application of the rents and profits of the lands and tenements forinerlj' given by Erasmus 
 Smith, Esq., deceased, to charitable uses." Under that Act there were four Governors of 
 the Erasmus Smith School made governors of the hospital — the Lord Mayor, Recorder, 
 and two aldermen, who were to represent the Blue Coat llosijital, and were Governors of 
 the Erasmus Smith Scliools, and there was an agreement between them, which is recited 
 in the Act, and ratified — '' That the governors of the said schools shall, out of the cash novyr 
 in, or which shall hereafter come to their hand?, with all convenient speed pay to the 
 governors of the said Hospital and Free School of King Charles 11., Dublin, commonly called 
 the Blue Coat Hospital, the said sum of £300 sterling, towards building an infirmary, and 
 also find and provide bedding and other usual furniture in each room, for such boys as shall 
 be by them placed in the said Blue C^oat Hospital, the keeping and repairing of which 
 bedding and furniture is thereafter to be charged in the annual e-xpense for the maintenance 
 of the said boys, according to the usage and custom of the said liospital. And to the end 
 the boys hereby designed to be placed by the governors of the said schools in the said 
 hospital may be maintained, clothed, and educated in the same manner as the other boys 
 in the said hospital." The governors are subsequently empowered to apprentice the boys 
 educated in the hospital. 
 
 21905. The Jjlue Coat Hospital being connected with the Corporation of Dublin, it came 
 to be inquired into by the Commissioners of Municipal Corporations in Ireland, who made a 
 report on it in the year 1 833. 1 need not read that report, but merely state that they describe 
 the original foundation of the hospital, — the arrangement with the Governors of Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools, and the right of certain persons to nominate children to the hospital. 
 They then proceed to give the information about it, which is very full, but which I need 
 not read. The only importance of noticing this report is that by a provision of the 
 Municipal Corporation Act founded upon it, a new arrangement was made with regard 
 to the constitution of the Blue Coat Hospital. The provision to wliicli I refer is the 
 3 & 4 Vic, chap. 108, sec. 113. It enacts, " That from and immediately after this Act 
 shall come into operation in the said city of Dublin, the persons who at that time shall 
 be governors of the said hospital, and the sui-vivors of them, and their .successors to be 
 appointed, in manner hereinafter mentioned, shall be, and they are hereb}' constituted a 
 body politic? and corporate by the aforesaid name of " The Governors of the Hospital and 
 Free School of King Charles II ," in tlie place and stead of the said Lord Mayor, Sheriffs, 
 Commons, Citizens of the said city of Dublin, who no longer shall be such body politic 
 and corporate, in like manner, to all intents and purposes, as if the said sixty-one persons, 
 and the survivors of them, and their successors, had been the persons appointed by virtue 
 of the said letter patent." It then goes on to provide that "the governors shall never be 
 less than fifty, and that when, and so often as any of the governors hereby appointed or 
 to be appointed as hereinafter is mentioned (other than the said treasurer, and three other 
 governors of the said schools, founded by the said Erasmus Smith) shall depart this life, 
 then it shall be lawful for the Lord Archbishop of Armagh, the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, 
 the Lord Archbishop of Dublin, and the Lord Bishop of Meath, for the time being, or the 
 major part of them, and they are hereby empowered in writing under their hands and seals, 
 to appoint one or more person or persons, iu the place or places, and as successor or 
 successors, of the deceased governor or governors, or any of thein, so as to make up, with 
 the surviving governors, the number at the least of fifty governors, including the said 
 treasurer, and three other governors of the said schools founded by the said Erasmus 
 Smith ; and every person so appointed a governor shall be a governor jointly with the 
 surviving governors for the time being." It then enacts that four governors of the Blue 
 Coat Hospital shall bo appointed Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools, in place of the 
 Lord Mayor. Kecordcr, &c. 
 
 21906.' That is the Act of Parliament under which the governors are at present consti- 
 tuted, so that although at the period the report to which I have referred was made, the 
 hospital was in connexion with the Corporation of Dublin, it is now entirely separated 
 from that bod}'. 
 
 Vol. II. T 2
 
 140 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. Addison Hone, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 JJospitol itnd Free . i -i i ^ xt • i -^ 
 
 School of Knuj 21907. Clmirman. — lou are registrar to the Blue Coat Hospital? — I am. 
 
 Charles Ji:,com,iw„li) 21908. When were you appointed to that office? — I was appointed in April, 1829. I 
 Blue Coat Hospital, aiii twcnty-sovcn years in the hospital this April. 
 A'l(li«on Hone. Esq. 21909. By whom were you appointed ? — V>y the governors of that time. 
 
 21910. What was the original constitution of the Board of Governors ?^ — They were all 
 members of the Corporation. Tlie aldermen, the sheriff's' peers, and the medical officers, 
 composed the entire board, together with the representatives of the Board of Erasmus Smith. 
 
 21911. How many were on the board when you were appointed ? — I should think there 
 were sixty-one. There was a full board ; but I am not prejjared to say exactly how many 
 were on it. 
 
 21912. What is the mode adopted at present for appointing tlie governors? — The 
 vacancies as they occur now are filled up by the trustees under the Municipal Corporation 
 Act, by the Primate the Archbishop of Dublin, and the Bishop of Meath. 
 
 21913. How many at present constitute the board? — Fifty. 
 
 21914. What is the present income of the hospital? — I think the income is somewhere 
 about £1,600 a year. The lands of Cappaghloughlin return an uneven amount; that 
 income, of course, is subject to deductions in the way of poor rate and income tax. 
 
 21915. From what source is that income derived ? — The hospital lias a |n-operty in the 
 country called Noddstown, county Tipperary ; it has the rectoral titlies of Mullingar, and 
 it has house property in Stephen's-green, a small property at Oxmantown, and tlie Grange- 
 gorman rent. 
 
 21916. Do you say that the income of Cappaghloughlin is fluctuating? — The hospital is 
 entitled to four-sixteenths of the income derived from Cappaghloughlin. The account is 
 kept by the Board of Education, and when they settle tlieir accounts, they strike the 
 balance, whicli is paid by Dr. Kyle to my board. 
 
 21917. What is tlie average annual amount derived from tlie lands of Cappaghloughlin? — 
 It varies in amount ; for instance, I received a letter yesterday from Dr. Kyle, in which he 
 says that our portion for last year was one hundred and sixty and odd pounds. That is some- 
 thing more than usual, but the books will show tlic receipts from time to time to a farthing. 
 
 21918. Is there any arrear due to the hospital on foot of these receipts? — You cannot 
 call it an arrear ; because they are ready to pay up to last September the amount of one 
 hundred and sixty and odd pounds, as spccitieil by the letter 1 have received. 
 
 21919. What is the average number of governors that attend the meetings of the board 
 at present ? — Five is a sufficient number ; but I can only refer you to the book for an 
 accurate answer. In the absence of the books it is a vague thing to state the number who 
 attend or wlio do not attend. 
 
 21920. Did five always constitute a quorum? — No, it was seven; but at present it is 
 considered better to have five. 
 
 21921. How often does the board meet? — Quarterly. They formerly met monthly. 
 
 21922. Why was that change made? — There was no actual business to be discharged 
 monthly ; and it was thought more advisable and convenient to all parties to meet 
 quarterly, and then there is more business thrown on the committee, for the business of 
 the house is actually done through a working committee, which meets twice a month, and 
 oftener if necessity requires it. They then report to the general board their proceedings 
 from day to day, which are read at the quarterly meetings, commented upon, and, generally 
 speaking, confirmed. 
 
 21923. How is that committee formed ? — It is elected by the board, and any member of 
 the board wlio has a desire to be on that committee, has only to express a desire to that 
 effect, and I summon him, as a matter of course. There is, literally speaking, no limit to 
 the committee. 
 
 21924. How many are at present on that committee ? — I think it is eleven or twelve. 
 
 21925. Canyon state the average number that meets on that committee? — There is 
 sufficient to form a quorum of the committee, but the committee-book shows every meet- 
 ing, and tin! names ol' tliose who attend are always entered. 
 
 21926. What powers have that committee? — Their powers are given to them through 
 the board, but tliey are very extensive. It is a very common tiling, if jiarties apjily for 
 purposes wliich shouhl come before the board, for me to advise tliem, if it be a matter 
 which requires immediate arrangement, to make application to the committee. In that 
 way the committee would take up the question and report on it; but the powers are gene- 
 rally speaking given directly from the board to the committee. In minor matters con- 
 nected with the estal)li.s]ini('nt, of course they have ])ow(r to net, liut for tlie management 
 of any thing beyond these, the j)0\vers are granted by the board, as will be seen by the 
 minutes of tlie day. 
 
 21927. What are the duties of the committee? — Their duties arc, generally speaking, 
 confined to the arrangement and controlling of the cstablisiimcnt ; tliey, literally speaking, 
 can take up any (juestion tliat comes before them, in reference to the working of tlic 
 establishment. 
 
 2192H. Is the school committee a separate committee ? No, tliey are tlie same committee. 
 
 21929. What are the rules observed with res]tect to the signing of drafts? — Tlie drafts 
 are signed by the board. They pass tiirougli tlie committee, and are certified by me ; and 
 upon my certifying and placing them before the board, they are, as initialed by three of the 
 committee, signed by the board.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 141 
 
 21930. How many of the board sign the drafts ? — Three. 
 
 2iy:Jl. Is that always done? — Always. 
 
 21932. At tlio meetings of tlie board '? — At the meetings of the board. Tlie drafts going 
 into the Rank of Ireland are signed by three governors, and signed by rae as the oflicer of 
 the board. 
 
 21!)IJ3. In case tliere is no quorum, what ste]).s arc taken for tlic signing of drafts ? — The 
 drafts, when there was no quorum, liave been signed by the members of the board who 
 attended ; and at tlie next meeting of tiie board, they are certified in the instructions, as 
 having been signed in the alisence of tlie board. This is done wlicii necessity requires, 
 vvhicli necessity usually arises wlien we have no contracts. 
 
 21934. Do I understand you to say that the drafts are occasionally signed out of the 
 board-room ? — Never. The committei! have no power within themselves of signing drafts, 
 nor never had. It is especially provided that th(!y shall not; but, the other day, in the 
 taking of contracts for the present year, the board, in the case of a contract for bread, con- 
 sidered it advisable to accejjt it. The parties seeking the contract, required to be paid 
 monthly, which would have been attended with great inconvenience. I was directed to 
 apply to the parties, to ask them to take their payments quarterly, and if they did so, their 
 contract would be accepted. The parties did as I required, and the committee were then 
 obUged to go to the board, and ask a special order, giving tlicni power to sign drafts 
 quarterly, in ca.se the accounts wei-e not prepared when the quarter board met. The last 
 proceedings of the board will show that there is a disposition on the part of the committee 
 to make some better arrangement with respect to the interior portions of the building, the 
 want of which was observed by some of them when inspecting some works that were 
 being executed. They obtained the sanction of the board to expend a sum not exceeding 
 £25, on the improvements which they suggested. 
 
 21935. Is there any list of the muniments belonging to the hospital ? — There is a list of 
 donors and donations, and the board are now about getting it copied. There is in my 
 office a number of specimens from two establishments, the business to be done by which- 
 ever the committee think fit. 
 
 21936. Will that list contain all the leases ? — Not the leases at all ; merely the parties 
 who subscribed towards the building of the establishment. I tliink 1 understand your 
 question now. There is no list, except the list mentioned by Mr. O'Brien in his report. 
 All the leases in that report are in the possession of the hospital, and they are kept in a 
 safe, under three keys, which arc kept by separate parties. 
 
 21937. Was there not a list of muniments ordered to be made out in January, 184-3 ? — 
 I cannot pretend to say there was or was not ; but if there was, it is on the face of the 
 books ; and it is very likely, on Mr. O'Brien's appointment, he got instructions to do so, 
 and he did so iu his report, of which you are in possession, and which shows all the muni- 
 ments belonging to the establishment. 
 
 21938. Who has the care of tlie muniments? — They are locked up in a safe, for which 
 there are three keys. One of the keys is in the possession of Mr. Brady, and the other in 
 the possession of ilr. Thoi'pe ; and the third I hold myself, under an order of the board. 
 That safe cannot be opened, except by the order of the board, when the parties who hold 
 the keys are summoned to be in attendance, and bring the keys with them. When tlie 
 purpose for which the safe is required to be opened is served, it is locked up, and the keys 
 handed back to the respective owners. 
 
 21939. Has there been a collection of bye-laws framed ? — Never. 
 
 21940. Has there been a code of duties of the officers printed ? — There has been nothing 
 of the kind ever printed. Of course there are regulations and bye-laws made, which 
 appear on the minutes, but they liave never been defined. 
 
 2 1 94 1. Were they not ordered to be printed in 184G ? — I think there was a committee 
 ajjpointed then, who were to have gone over the books, and put the rules and regulations 
 together, but they never did so. The establishment is worked under tlie auspices of the 
 committee. There are alterations which from time to time take place, and the old bye- 
 laws would be of no use. There were some, for instance, framed when the offices of school- 
 master and chaplain were separate, but now that the offices are consolidated they are of 
 no use. 
 
 21942. In 1854 the law agent was desired to proceed against the corporation for the 
 recovery of leases and deeds ; has that been done ? — No proceedings have been actually 
 taken, for the corporation yielded ; and they will now give up tlio^e documents, without 
 any proceedings having been taken for the purpose, but they have not yet handed them 
 over, for they are keeping them to make copies of them, but the law agents have had access 
 to them. 
 
 21943. Has a complete inventory of the property of the hospital been kept by you? 
 — I keep nothing except my books, and the accounts that are furnished yearly is the only 
 inventory that I can produce. 
 
 21944. Was not a regular systematic book ordered to be kept? — I think there was no 
 book ordered to be kept that was not kept. 
 
 21945. Wliat is your salary? — My salary is £230 a-year. 
 
 2 1946. Is income-tax deducted from that ? — It is not ; the board pay the income-tax for 
 the officers. 
 
 21947. For all the officers ? — There are but two officers in the establishment who would 
 be liable to income tax, and they pay it for these two. 
 
 21948. Was that mentioned in your return? — It is mentioned on the face of the minutes. 
 
 DlJIJLI.N. 
 
 J/iiyjilu/ and Free 
 
 Srlidol nf Kinij 
 
 Ch'iilfx J/., /■iiiiimonhi 
 
 callad Ihi: 
 Blue CoiU Hnsjiitut. 
 AiWison Ilono, Ksii.
 
 142 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 HoajrUal and Free 
 
 St'hooi nf Kiny 
 
 Charles J I., cummoult/ 
 
 culled the 
 Blue Coal Hospital. 
 
 AJdison Hone, Esq. 
 
 21949. But is it mentioned in the return you have made to the Commissioners? — I think 
 it is, but if not, and that you require it, I can amend the return by inserting the fact of 
 the payment of income-tax by the board. 
 
 21950. What other emoluments have you? — There are some receivers' fees wliich I 
 receive, but I am sorry to say they have been considerably reduced by an arrangement made 
 with respect to the Noddstowu property. The tenants formerly paid their rents into my 
 office directly, which entitled the registrar to the fees. The governors thought it desirable, 
 after the death of Mr. Gahan, to have an agent upon the spot, and the fees I would 
 otherwise have had went to him. 
 
 21951. What is the amount of fees that you receive? — They are very small; I think I 
 mentioned the amount in my return, but they are very small. 
 
 21952. What other emoluments have you? — 1 have coals and washing, apartments and 
 a garden, stabling, yard, and coach-house. 
 
 21953. AMiat number of rooms have you? — I have plenty of rooms. I have a dining- 
 room, a parlour and office, and five sleeping-rooms. 
 
 21954. Have you a kitchen ? — I have, and a coal-box, and every thing of that kind, which 
 a man requires to make him comfortable. 
 
 21955. Do you i-eside in tlie hospital? — I do. 
 
 21956. Do you sleep there ? — I do. 
 
 21957. What are your duties? — I have general duties to perform. I have the general 
 superintendence, and what may be termed the general control of the establishment. I 
 have to keep the accounts of the institution, and 1 have to receive the rents and account 
 for them. 1 send out orders for provisions, and have to report on all matters 1 think 
 necessary to the board or committee, and take their instructions, when these matters are 
 required to be carried out. 
 
 21958. Have you the superintendence of the dietary of the boys? — Yes, I have; the 
 dietary is principally arranged by the medical officers, but the orders for the provisions go 
 through my hands. The order for meat, as required, is sent out daily; for bread daily; 
 the milk comes twice a day, morning and evening. I have to keep accounts of all these 
 things. 
 
 21959. Is there any letter book kept? — No ; there is no regular letter book kept. 
 
 21960. Was not that ordered by the governors? — No, it was not; I have a great many 
 letters to write, but a great many of them are not important. Some few of them are 
 entered, but not very many, 1 think. 
 
 21961. I find this minute, dated the 14th Mai-ch, 1843, recorded in the books: 
 " That in future, all letters written from the institution upon its business be entered in a 
 book for that purpose." — I forgot to state, tliat when there are letters written of an import- 
 ant nature, there are copies made of them, but there are a great many letters written of 
 which there are no copies made. 
 
 21962. Do you lay on the table of the board a paper containing the heads of business? 
 —I do. 
 
 2196:3. Do you attend all the meetings of the board? — I do not think there ever was a 
 meeting of the board since I was ajipointed which I did not attend at, but one. 
 
 21964. AVhat is the amount of the rents that you receive? — I think the rents are some- 
 where about £1,640 4s. a-year. 
 
 21965. Do you receive all these rents? — No; there may be arrears, but 1 think that is 
 about the established rent. 
 
 21966. My question is, what amount do you receive? — I could tell you that by referring 
 to my yearly accounts. I would not wish to make a guess when I have the means of 
 telling you to tlie sliilling. 
 
 21967. Do you receive fees on the amount collected by you? — On a portion I do, but 
 not on the whole. 
 
 21968. State what rents you receive fees on? — I receive fees on the rents of Stephen's- 
 green, and the rent paid by the Wesleyan Methodists, and on the Oxmantown rent ; 
 but it is specified in tlie return the amount of fees 1 actually receive. I will send you in 
 a return, in writing, if you wish, of every fartliing of the rents I receive and the properties 
 1 receive tlicm from, as soon as my books are rcturiiod. 
 
 21969. The Commissioners request that you will send in that return as soon as the 
 books are returned to you. Wliat security have you given ? — I have given security for £3,000. 
 
 21 -.170. Do you lodge all the money received by you in the Bank of Ireland? — I do. 
 
 21971. To the credit of tlie governors? — To tlie credit of the governors. When I say 
 all, I sliould say, tliat tlicre are small sums generally on hands, but the account of the 
 governors is kept in tlio Bank of Ireland. 
 
 21972. Tiien you do not lodge all the moneys? — No. 
 
 21973. It is stated in tlio report on Municipal Corporations, that a resolution was passed 
 bv the board, that all moneys received by their agents should be lodged in the Bank of 
 Ireland to tlio credit of tlio governors. — I tiiink when they stated all moneys, it meant 
 fas is the case;), that large siinis should be lodged ; but there is an understanding that I 
 should always hohl small sums — I think the amount sjiecitied is about £100, because there 
 are small money (hniiands which must be ])aid; but all large sums are lodged, just as I tell 
 you, in the Bank of Ireland, and the balance can be seen at any time. 
 
 2L974. Could not provision bo made for these incidental expenses by drafts on tlio 
 bank? — I do not say tlierc could not; but it is not done. The board have been satisfied 
 to do it in another way.
 
 EVIDENCE. 143 
 
 21975. Then the bank account does not indicate the nett receipts of the governors? — Uunuj*. 
 
 No; it does not. ^^ ."" 
 
 2197(i. In the return signed by you, under the head "Endowments from land," the SrlZl !!f'''Ki^' 
 
 annual income is put down as £2, .5131. Would you state in what manner that sum is made Cliuyl(:^II.,ciniimmilii 
 
 out? — It was made out from tlie audited accounts of 1853. calUdOit 
 
 21977. Can you state how much of that is rent from land, and how nuich from other , ".' *"' ""'''"■ 
 o T 11 i rr . 1 1 .1 i T II Aildi.wn Hone, Esq. 
 
 sources.' — I could not. 11 1 had tlie accounts I could. 
 
 21978. Can you state what the items arc under the head of exprnditure in the next 
 column ? — They are taken in the same way — they are both copies taken from the accounts 
 of 18515. 
 
 21979. Are these outgoings all the expenses of the establi.shmcnt ? — T think so. This 
 return states that the amount of receivers' fees is 1"23 8s. a-ycar. 
 
 21980. Rev. Dr. Graves. — You are charged witli the superintcndemo of the domestic 
 economy of the institution ; have you calculated what is the daily cost of the maintenance 
 of each boy ? — Oh, no ; 1 have not. 
 
 21981. Or what it is annually ? — No; I have never calculated it. 
 
 21982. What is the annual cost of the clothing of each boy? — I could not tell that, 
 unless I took up the documents and went into the items. 
 
 21983. Have you calculated it?— I have not; but you would be obliged to take the 
 average, because the clothing of the boys does not cost a regular sum yearly. It varies 
 according as they get blue clothes or corduroy clothes, so that one year the clothing might 
 appear very small, and another year large, when the heavy item for blue clothes comes into 
 the accounts. The last year there was £137 for blue clothes; but there was no blue 
 clothes for two years before, or I believe three years. 
 
 21984. What is the number of servants employed in the establishment? — I think there 
 are seven. 
 
 21985. Seven female servants? — I think so. 
 
 21986. Are there any male servants besides the porter? — No; there is none but a 
 porter. 
 
 219S7. Do you know the gross amount of the wages of the servants? — You have it 
 already stated what my own salary is, and the amount of the servants' wages can be 
 ascertained very quickly. 
 
 21988. It is stated in the report of the Commissioners on JIunicipal Corporations, who 
 reported in 1830, that the amount of the yearly wages of twelve female servants was 
 £104 %s., and that they had an allowance in lieu of perquisites, which together with the 
 wages of a messenger and labourer amounted to £103 4s., per annum more. — I can furnish 
 you accurately with an account of what their wages come to in the year. 
 
 21989. Has there been any reduction in the expenditure on this head since the time 
 that this report was made by the Commissioners of Municipal Corporations? — I think there 
 was ; I do not think there are as many servants now as there were tlien. 
 
 21990. But you must know the exact number? — I know the exact number. 
 
 21991. The number stated in this report is twelve ?— There are not twelve woman 
 servants ; I think there are but eiglit. 
 
 21992. Do the audited accounts annually contain these headings set out ? — They do. 
 
 21993. What arrangements are made with respect to the taking of contracts? — They 
 are advertised. 
 
 21994. What is done when the tenders arc sent in?— The particulars respecting the 
 contracts are all in the minute book, which you have. The Board of Governors refer 
 the contracts to the committee, and the committee open the tenders and declare the 
 contractors. They have got the power under the board to take contracts ; and they report 
 the persons whom they have selected to the next board. They have also the power of 
 discharging pending accounts, if the former contractor should be discharged. 
 
 21995. Is it the house committee which is intrusted with that power? — Yes; but it is 
 all the same committee. 
 
 21996. Are the servants of the establishment fed in the hospital?— No; they are allowed 
 no feeding, with the exception of a leg of mutton and vegetables on Sunday. 
 
 21997. The allowance spoken of in the report of tlie Commissioners on Municipal Cor- 
 porations in Ireland nuist refer to weekly money ? — There was an allowance formerly of 
 bread and butter, and other small matters", which the governors, many jears ago, thought 
 it desirable to discontinue ; and they then allowed them a sum of money that they con- 
 tracted to pay for these things, and gave this provision of one leg of mutton in the week, 
 which arrangement is now of some years' standing ; but formerly they had perquisites, and 
 the officers had perquisites, which are all done away with ; the oiBcers were repaid for this, 
 but the servants were not. 
 
 21998. Have any of the officers or servants retiring allowances ?— There is no pensioner 
 in the establishment at present ; it has been usual to pension officers and servants after a 
 length of service, but there are not any at present receiving pensions. 
 
 21999. Was not an arrangement made to pension the last retiring chaplain? — There 
 was. 
 
 22000. What was the amount of the annual allowance granted to him ?— 1 think £100 
 a-ycar. 
 
 22001. Has that payment ceased ? — Oh, yes. 
 
 22002. What amount of sleeping accommodation docs the hospital afford?— In what way ? 
 
 22003. How many boys would the dormitories accommodate ?— I do not know how I
 
 144 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dlblin. could answer tliat ; the accommodation would depend upon whether you would put the 
 
 „ ,"; — , ,. heds extremely close, or keei) them in their present positions ; if they were closer tlum tiiev 
 
 H'lSjntal uii'l tree j.i i "i • i i i ^ i '' *' 
 
 Sclion/ ufKinq fire, the dormitories would accommodate more boys. 
 Charles II.. cnmmonly 22004. llow many would they accommodare it the beds were placed at a suitable dis- 
 c'llhdihe tance ? — I think they would accommodate 130. 
 
 tslite Coal Huispital. „,„^-Tr i -ii ., n -r^' ■, 
 
 Aflrlison Hone E^ 2"J00o. Jlow many are tliere in tlie hos])ital at present "—Eighty. 
 
 220C)'J. IIow many are maintained by the Hoard of Erasmus Smith's Schools ? — Twenty- 
 seven. The Board return twenty, and the treasurer seven. 
 
 22007. Then if the funds of the hospital were adequate, you could receive at all e<'ents 
 fifty more boys '? — Decidedly we could. 
 
 220 OS. Would the schoolroom afford accommodation to as many as 130 boys ? — Oh, yes, 
 it would ; it is a very ample schoolroom, and so is the diiiing-hall. 
 
 22009. I find it stated on the minutes of the board, that the hospital can accommodate 
 1(50 boys; do you think that it would accommodate so many? — I do not. 
 
 22010. Do the boys at present all occupy separate beds ? — They do. 
 
 2201 1. Was it ever the practice to allow them to sleep in beds two by two ? — When I 
 went into the office it was. 
 
 22012. IIow long is it since the practice was discontinued ? — Very shortly after I went 
 there the question was discussed, and a change made ; when I went to the hospital the 
 boys slept two and two. 
 
 22013. What was the total number of boys accommodated in the hospital at that time ? 
 — 1 think there were 120 ; I do not recollect the exact number when I was appointed. 
 
 22014. There are twenty-seven boys presented by the Board and treasurer of Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools : how much do they pay a head for the maintenance of these boys ? — They 
 pay in proportion to the expenditure. 
 
 22015. Can you state how much they paid on the occasion of their last settlement for 
 each boy ? — I cannot tell you from recollection. 
 
 22016. Can you state from recollection nearly the amount? — I think somewhere, on an 
 average, about £11 or£l2a head ; but in the same way, that amount would vary according 
 to the clothing ; as I mentioned before, if the heavy item of cord clothes and blue clothes 
 comes in on the same occasion, it would make a difference of one pound or thirty shillings, 
 under the head of clotliing ; I can furnish you with a return of what the boys, under the 
 head of Erasmus Smith, cost half-yearly for the last four or five years, or any number of 
 years that you like. 
 
 22017. What do you suppose to be. on an average, the cost of the maintenance of each 
 boy in the institution? — I think it is twenty odd pounds, since the boys have been so reduced ; 
 but if the funds of the hospital would enable the governors to place on additional boys, it 
 would make a great difference, because the present staff would work the establishment 
 with any number of boys tiiat it would hold, without any additional expense ; the reduction 
 of boys increases the expenditure very considerably. 
 
 22018. As I understand you, the average cost of the maintenance of the boys presented 
 by the Board of Erasmus Smith's Schools, is £l 1 ? — Tlic accounts will show truly the half- 
 yearly payments they make ; they are in black and white. 
 
 220 I !)■ 1 suppose you are able to state from recollection, and from your acquaintance with 
 the affairs of the institution, what was the average cost of tlie maintenance of these boys? 
 — If I had the means of stating the cost to the exact fivrthing, I would prefer it to guess- 
 work ; for I might easily make a mistake, and the books cannot be mistaken. 
 
 22020. Have you, from time to time, calculated these averages? — I have ; sometimes 
 they have been £9, and other times they have been £11 and upwards. 
 
 22021. If the Board of Erasmus Smith's Schools only pay from £9 to £11 a head for the 
 maintenance of each boy, whilst the maintenance of the boy altogether costs the hospital 
 £22 or £23 ? 1 meant half yearly. 
 
 22022. I thought you meant yearly ? — The way I averaged them was half-yearly. 
 
 22023. Mr. Jlughes. — The half-yearly account for March, 1850, was £277 2a-. 6d. ; Sep- 
 tember, 18.50, £304 I8s.4d.; March, lf.51, £325 2.*.; September, 1851, £304 05. Ud.; 
 Marcli. \H-,2, £.'>38 5s. 8d.; September, 1852, £334 1.5,s\ 5(1.; the average then goes on 
 fluctuating from £312 to £394 17.s. Ad., wliicli was tlio last account for the lialf year ending 
 September, 1S.55? — I will sliow you iiow tliat account is made out, if yen wish : there is a 
 book on the table before the Commissioners, called the blotter-book, whicli ex])lains all these 
 items ; the items arc taken from that, and brouglit out half-yearly, so as to keep the 
 account clear between the Board of Erasmus Smith and our board, in order that there 
 fihould be no after-cliarges, and that they should i)ay what they have a right to pay, and 
 no more; tlu; different items for clotliing and maintenance^ are s<^t forth in that book, and 
 those different items added together, will make out tlie amount of the Erasmus Smith 
 account. 
 
 22024. I'ev. Dr. Graves. — Eor how long has tin; number of the Erasmus Smitli's scholars 
 amounted to twenty-seven? — For a considerable time. They did amount to more than 
 tliat some years ago. They had thirty boys some years ago ; i>ut they reduced them. I 
 ludieve it was necessary they sliould reiluce tlieir expenditure in some resi)ects, and they 
 reiliiced accordingly the niiml)er of boys in our establisliment. I believe that the present 
 number is in cenformity with tlic Act of I'.-uliament. 
 
 22025. The Act ])rovides that they shall !)(■ at liberty to send a number not exceeding 
 twenty? — [ did not know that. J tiiought they could not have a less number, but that 
 they might put in as many as they pleased.
 
 EVIDENCE. 145 
 
 22020. Tlio Act says — " Tlio c^ovcrnors of tlie said Iiospital .sliall find convenient reception Dtui.is'. 
 
 in the said hospital for any nniuher of hoys to he named, and jdaccd tlierein liy tiie gover- ■ ~/~ / /.•. 
 
 nors of the .sciioids, not exceeding twenty." — I tlionglit tlie private Act gave them liherty to s!-h,",l',''fKin'i'^ 
 put in as many as thev jdeased, ])rovided tliey paid thc^ir portion of the expcnditnre CluirUsll'.mmi'mmlfl 
 
 22027. I'lie JJislioii of JMeatli is eniilh'd to ])resent ten bovs for admi.ssion — is that ,,, ';'//''/'/"• , 
 privilege made use ot hv lum : — It is. 
 
 2202S. The (iuild of St. Anne's is mentioned in this report ?— That has ceased long since. ••^''"*"" "'""'• ''*"''• 
 
 2202'J. Tlio Guild of St. Anne's no longer ])resents hoys?— No; nor never did in my 
 time. It has died a natural doath ; and 1 helieve there is no such guild now. 
 
 220.'3(l. TlH;l>ectorofSt.\Verlnirgh'sis('iititledto])resentt\vohoyH? — ] leket'ps up liis right. 
 
 220;5I. Arc there any otlnu- ])rcsentationsy — No, there are not. 
 
 220.'12. The circumstances under which the boys are admitted are not alike in all cases — 
 there is a limitation with regai-d to some, who must he sons or grandsons of i'reemen ? — 
 That is the only exception. The hoys who are placed on the foundation arc. generally, of 
 the lower classes : with tlie cxce|)tion that tluy are not all hound to be the sons or grandsons 
 of freemen, the age must he the same, and the (pialiiication in otiier respects the same. 
 
 2203:j. Uf the eighty at present in the institution, how many are sons or grandsons of 
 freemen '.' — Forty-one. 
 
 22034. 'What are the rcgul itioiis now in force as to the admission of boys? — A boy 
 must bo between the age of nine and eleven. His parents must be I'rotestants on both 
 sides ; and he must be in health ; and tlierc must be a certificate produced of his freedom ; 
 and a parent or next-of-kin is bound to attend, to vouch the accuracy of the certificate, 
 and that the boy is a legitimate boy, as returned luider that certilicate. In the other 
 instances the parties are obliged to make an affidavit to all that I spoke of, with the 
 exception of the freedom. 
 
 22035. Is any qualification insisted upon in the way of learning? — They all go tlirough 
 an examination by the cliaplain of the establishment; and bel'ore any of them can be 
 tested, he certifies that they arc qualified for to be candidates from the education they 
 have received, so far as is necessary to qualify them for admission. The certificate book, 
 signed by him, is on the board table every day that the boys are admitted. 
 
 2203G. For how many years are they maintained in the hospital ?^ — F'ive years. 
 
 22037. Is any inquiry made as to the eirctimstances of the parents, previous to the 
 admission of the boys? — The parties jmtting the boys in, make these inquiries, and of 
 course satisfy themselves as to the fitness of the boys. 
 
 220.58. But the board, as a body, make no inquiries into the circumstances of the 
 parents ? — The boy is presented by the individual governor who has the right of ncnnnation ; 
 and on the qualification being produced, the ([uestion is put " aye" or " no," and there is 
 no rejection if the boy is stated to be qualified. 
 
 22039. Then an individual governor might nominate a boy whoso parents were in easy 
 circumstances? — lie could nominate him, but still his admission would be subject to the 
 approval of the board. 
 
 22040. Since you liave been registrar, has any liov been rejected by the board on the 
 ground that his parents could afibrd to pay for his education? — There never has been an 
 instance of that kind ; but I believe it is very seldom a case occurs where a boy who could 
 afford to jiay was brought to the hospital. 
 
 22041. When was the limitation made by which the nomination of boys was restricted 
 to the sons or grandsons of freemen? — I believe it never was otherwise. 
 
 22012. Is it mentioned in tlie charter? — Itlunk that it is implied when the charter states 
 that the Lord JMayor, sherilfs, and citizens had a right to nominate; because they were 
 all freemen in those days. 
 
 22043. Was the management of the institution committed to them? — They had the 
 nomination of the boys. 
 
 22044. 1 cannot find any limitation in the charter, except one, namely, tJiat the boys 
 admitted siiould be poor children? — Or the sons or graiulsuns of citizens. 
 
 22045. 1 see no statement to that eft'ect in the charter? — It is quite possible; but the 
 way the board reads it is, tiiat the citizens of those days were freemen. At all events, the 
 system I speak of has been always adopted, whether it is in accordance with the charter 
 or not, is not for me to say. 
 
 2204(j. Was there any attempt ever made to open the admissions to the Blue Coat 
 Hospital to Protestant children m general '? — Not having the right of freedom? 
 
 22047. Yes. — There was. 
 
 22048. Do you remember when? — It is some years ago, as will appear by the minutes; 
 but the question was rejected. 
 
 22049. ISy whom was that proposition introduced? — I am not prepared to tell you, 
 because I do not recollect it. 
 
 22050. -Mr. Hur/hcs. — Docs it appear by the minutes?— It would not appear by the 
 minute who introduced it. 
 
 22051. But is the transaction noticed in the minute book? — No. 
 
 22052. How could wo get at it ? — 1 think you could get it all ; for a lengthened memorial 
 came in to prevent the thing from being carried out ; and the memorial is all on the minutes. 
 
 22053. Kev. Dr. Graves. — You do "not recollect the mover yourself, and you say the 
 transaction is recorded in the minute book ; but we cannot find it. as the minute book is 
 not indexed? — I could not find it, unless I searched the minutes myself. Mr. ilallet, I 
 think, introduced it, some twenty years ago. 
 
 Vol. II. ' ■ U
 
 146 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBLiN. 22054. Were not regulations at one time made with regard to the reccjition into the 
 
 . ^ hospital of paying scholars "? — There were. 
 
 S^hldlflin? 22055. Would you be so good as to state what these regulations were ?_It happened 
 
 Charles ll.\communhj repeatedly that governors who were desirous of getting boys in did not succeed, and the 
 
 '■"f'<'d tlie. ^ board then considered that it would be desirable, if tlie governor nominating should pay 
 
 "f ""^ "^P^" ■ for him, until he came on to his nomination ; that he was then bound to put the boy in, and 
 
 "" Hone, Ksq. ^^^^ payment ceased when the boy was admitted to the free side of the school. That 
 
 arrangement was but a short time in operation, when a question was raised about its 
 
 legality, and the opinion of the then Sergeant Greene was talcen, wlio considered tliat the 
 
 proceeding was not a legal one under the charter. The boys were tlien removed to the 
 
 free side of tlie house, and there was an end to tlie arrangement, in consequence of his 
 
 opinion. 
 
 22056. Did he state any ground for that opinion '? — I think he said if boys were taken 
 in in that kind of way that the Governors would get rid of tlio title of free school, and be 
 subject to the payment of taxes. 
 
 22057. It would cease to be a purely eleemosynary institution ? — Yes ; and that they 
 would be hable to ta.xes and other expenditure, which would eat up the income of the 
 hospital. 
 
 22058. Then whatever boys had been admitted on these terms, were gradually drafted 
 into the places of free scholars ? — There never were more than two or three admitted on 
 these terms, and they were drafted into the free places. The admission in that way ceased 
 after the opinion expressed by Sergeant (now Baron) Greene. 
 
 22059. You have stated that the institution would accommodate a much larger number of 
 pupils than are at present educated in it ? — I did. 
 
 22060. Did it ever occur to the governors to consider the propriety of admitting day 
 pupils? — I do not know that it ever did. I never heard that the question was brought 
 regularly before the board. 
 
 22061. Was it never brought before the board ? — No. 
 
 22062. The time during which pupils are maintained in the institution is five years ; who 
 do you secure the removal of boys, when that period of five years is completed '? — Their 
 removal is made a matter of necessity : formerly — and w^hen I say formerly, I mean some years 
 ago — a good deal of difficulty arose in that respect. The boys overlicld their time, and great 
 inconvenience resulted by the boys getting too old, and not being so manageable as could 
 be wished. The board was, therefore, obliged to make a percmptoi'y business of it, — that 
 the boys should be removed at the expiration of their time. They are allowed £5, 
 Iri.sh, on being removed, to enable them to put clothes on them, and leave the clothes 
 belonging to the estabUshment, otherwise they have no means of providing clothing in 
 many instances. 
 
 22063. Originally that gratuity was regarded as an apprentice fee ? — AVe take a receipt 
 for it as if it was an apprentice fee. The term apprentice fee is still kept up. The parties 
 taking the boys give a receipt for the money as an apprentice fee, although in very many 
 instances it is not an apprentice fee. 
 
 22064. In cases where it is actually given as an apprentice fee, is £5, Irish, an adequate 
 sum to pay witlr a boy who is apprenticed to a respectable master? — Unquestionably not ; 
 if tliere were the means of giving a larger fee, but in the absence of means it is. I do not 
 think it ever was intended (although it was given as such) to be a fee, so much as to supply 
 the boy with the means of putting dress on him, suited for going into an office or business. 
 
 22065. Is there any record on the minute-book of regulations with regard to apprenticing 
 boys? — No, I tliink not ; no regulation beyond what I tell you. 
 
 22066. I think it is stated in tlie report of tlie Commissioners who reijorted in 1812, that 
 many of tlie boys were then apprenticed to different trades, and some were sent to sea? — 
 There are many boys gone to sea. 
 
 22067. Is it recently? — Now they do not go so, often as they used, but they are 
 occasionally sent. 
 
 22068. Do the governors take any part in apprenticing the boys ; do tliey hold any 
 communication with tlie masters to whom the boys are apprenticed ? — Tliey do not. 
 
 22060. How liave they any direct cognizance of the fact of boys being apprenticed at 
 all? — When a boy is going to be apprenticed (and there is generally lialf-a-dozen) it is 
 known to his ])arents, or friends ; they get the fees, and make jirovision for tiieiii. For 
 instance, not many days ago, a boy went out as an a])pr(ntice to Mr. Ik'wley — a mere boy. 
 The mother got the fee of £5 from me, as usual, but she had to pay Mr. liewley a larger 
 fee. He was not bound out of the house, but bound by iiis mother. 
 
 22070. Do you keep a record of what trades or callings the boys are apprenticed to ? — 
 Tlie Iiody of the indenture states that. 
 
 22071. ])Ut do you keeqi any registry of it ? — No. 
 
 22072. Is there any registry kept recording any thing connected with the pupils educated 
 in the establishment? — No. 
 
 22073. So you could not ascertain from the inspection of any such registry, whether the 
 pujMls had been generally successful in afterlife ? — No. 
 
 22074. The governors Iiave not followed tlioin into their afterlife? — No. 
 
 22075. Have you any means of knowing whether the boys educated in the institution 
 liavc been successful in life? — No. We hear of tlieir aftcn-lives more by accident than any 
 thing else; but there is no journal of tlie description you refer to k(>pt. 
 
 22076. What were the views of the governors in laying down the course of education
 
 EVIDENCE. 147 
 
 proscribed for the pupils in the school ; for what situations is that education intended to Duhlin. 
 
 prc])are the boys? — 1 sliould su])poKC that their intention was to ])repare the bo3-s for any ,, ■~i~ i p., 
 eligible ofl'cr they might get. 'Die hoys are extremely well educated for mercantile life, School uf Kmi 
 and public ajipointmonts, and very many of them get tliem. A great many boys from time ('/iiirlesJI.,cmiimonttf 
 to time arc a])poiiited to ofliccs in the courts : but they get an education which fits them for „, '^"Uedthc 
 
 ' i ,,,.,., , ... , , 1 ,. . r /. 1 • 1 1 ///"<• Coal l/osi)ital. 
 
 earning a respectable Iivehhood, if they take advantage or it. J fancy that is the only , , ,. „ „ 
 
 ■=,.,,,' i ^ • 1 xi 1 • i "^ "^ Adibson Hone, Esq. 
 
 View winch tlic governors entertained on tlie subject. 
 
 22077- They must have regulated the nature of the education with some regard to the 
 nature of the situations which the boys are al'terwards to fill in life ? — I am not aware of 
 any thing which occurred to enable me to give you any other answer. 
 
 22078. Generally speaking, you would assume that as Greek and Latin are not taught in 
 the school, it is the intention of the governors to provide such an education for the pupils 
 as shall qualify tiieni for ein]jloymeiit as clerks in public otiices, and for commercial and 
 trading avocations ? — That is just the answer 1 Avould make. I think that is tlie view of 
 the governors, and that as they could not give them a higher education, they give a very 
 full education for the purpose you mentioned. 
 
 2207!). Have the governors ever contemplated the introduction of the study of modern 
 languages into the school ? — I do not know that they ever did. 
 
 22080. Did you ever hc;u- that question discussed ? — No. I have heard it talked of, but 
 it was never brought forward as a board question. 
 
 2208 1. Is drawing taught in the school ? — It is not. I think there were at one time views 
 entertained of getting a master, but I suppose the funds not being very prosperous he was 
 not got. Some of the boys used to go to the Dublin Society, when there was a wish on the 
 part of their parents that they should do so. 
 
 22082. Is any instruction given in the experimental sciences? — I think not. 
 
 22083. Is there any given in natural history ? — I think not. 
 
 22084. You mentioned that some of the boys go to sea; is navigation taught in the 
 school? — It used to be, but I do not think it is now. 
 
 22085. The accounts of the institution appear to be kept in three books— a blotter, a 
 ledger of disbursements, and a ledger of tenants' accounts? — Yes. 
 
 22086. The blotter is just a rough daybook, in which entries are made of cash received 
 and paid ? — It is. 
 
 22087. Is this book regularly balanced ? — It is not what is called regularly balanced, but 
 it is audited. It shows at any time the total balance in favour of the governors. 
 
 22088. It appears to me to be only audited in pencil ? — That is quite likely too. 
 
 22089. Has it been ever balanced ? — I think it has. 
 
 22090. Would you be so good as to look at it, and see ? — It is balanced. 
 
 22091. The page to which you refer appears to be in a different handwriting from the 
 rest of the book ? — Yes. 
 
 22092. Is that your handwriting? — ^No. 
 
 22093. Is the book balanced in any other place ? — I should think it is. 
 
 22094. It appears to be balanced at the end of one year, but in pencil. It is, however, 
 to be treated as a mere rough-book. Is this book audited by the committee of accounts ? 
 — That book is kept by me for my own jmrposes. I enter in it all payments and 
 receijits. 
 
 22095. It is, therefore, your private rough-book, and there is not a regular system of 
 balancing it? — There is no regular system of balancing any book ; because the accounts 
 are not audited from the books, but from the vouchers. 
 
 22096. Do not the books of the hospital contain in them the audited balance sheets? — 
 No ; the accounts themselves are all audited from vouchers. 
 
 22097. Then what record is preserved in the accounts of the hospital of the financial 
 condition of the institution from time to time ? — That book will show at any period : after 
 totting up the various headings, tiic balance will appear, which is kept on by me with the 
 daily entries. 
 
 22098. But this is only a rough cash book — it does not furnish any person with the means 
 of ascertaining at any given time, or at frequently recurring periods, the condition of the 
 funds of the hospital ? — That could be done at any time by totting the two sides of the 
 account, and placing one against the other, but there is no other mode of doing it. 
 
 22099- Then the accounts are not so audited and balanced at intervals? — No, they are 
 not: they are balanced by nie in the way you see. I generally balance the accounts every 
 Saturday ; but that is for my own satisfaction, to see how I stand with the governors. 
 
 22 1 00. How often do the governors audit the accounts? — Yearly ; and the year's accounts 
 show the whole state of the affairs of the institution. 
 
 22101. But the yearly accounts are not kept in any books besides the three principal 
 ones I have mentioned? — Tlioy are not. 
 
 22102. Does this cash hook indicate your transactions with the bank? — No; it does not. 
 
 22103. Docs any book? — Nothing docs that but the bank-book itself 
 
 22104. Another of the account books submitted to us is a ledger of disbursements, 
 showing the expenditure under different heads — when was that book opened t — In 1838. 
 
 22105. Is there any inde.x to the accounts contained in it? — There is not. 
 
 22106. Does it contain an account of the rents received? — No. 
 
 22107- The first account opened in it, I think, is an account of the rents received ? — I 
 do not think it contains that account, but there is a general expenditure account in it, and 
 casual revenue account. 
 
 Vol. II. U 2 .
 
 148 ENDOWED SCHOOI^S, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 JHhliv. 2210S. But that account lias not been kept up? — No. it Las not. 
 
 Mosiil — IF 22109. You have mentioned also an account of general expenditure — has that been kept 
 
 sJ/imlof'Kim/ up? — It has been kept up under the different headings. 
 Charles II.'. cviitmonhi 22110. ]5ut it has uot been kept up as a general account? — I think not. 
 
 mikdthe 22111. Ilas any account bcon opened under the head of law e.vpenditurc? — There has not 
 
 tilue Coat Ilosintnf. ^,i-^ti-i -n/^i i i i i i - ^^ 
 
 . ,,. „ ' 22112. 1 think vou will iind one opened under that head. 
 
 22113. .Mr. Hughes. — ihere is an account oi law e.xpenditure on the last page? — I think 
 it is generally under the head of" casual expenditure. 
 
 221 14. Rev. Dr. Graves. — But it has not been kept up as a separate head of account? 
 — No ; there never was an entry but one. 
 
 221 15. Mr. //)(v/(c.s.— What is the date of that entry ?_183r). 
 
 221 K). And there has been none since? — No ; but the expenditure has been put under 
 other headings. 
 
 22 11 7. Is there any set of entries in that book which would .show what the law e.xpendi- 
 ture has been from 1839 up to the present time? — There is not. 
 
 22118. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Had not the law exjienscs been allowed to accumulate for 
 sevei'al years without being discharged ? — They did at one time; the governors were then 
 in possession of small means to discharge any of their liabilities — of late that is not the 
 case. The costs accumulated to Mr. Archer. 
 
 221 19. I saw upon tlie minutes of the board an order that the law expenses of the law 
 agent should be furnished annually — has that regulation been observed? — It has; and the 
 last account furnished for costs was not taxed as the board directed, and therefore they 
 were not discharged. 
 
 22120. There is in this book an account opened under the head of apothecarv and 
 intirniary ? — There is no regular infirmary account opened — ilic infirmary account is charged 
 under the head of iiicidontal exjienditnre. 
 
 22121. You will Iind that such an account has been opened? — It may. 
 
 22122. But it was not kept u[>? — I'he expenditure is charged under the head of inci- 
 dental e.xpenditure. 
 
 22123. Then the governors could not ascertain from the inspection of any single account 
 what was the expenditure under that head ? — No. 
 
 22124. But it was ojieiied ? — The apothecary's account was opened. 
 
 22125. How long was it kept up ? — 1 do not see there ever was an infirmary account. 
 22I2(J. Mr. Hurjhes. — But ])r. Graves is also asking about the a])othecary"s account? — 
 
 The apotiiecary's account was kept up to 1852. Craven and Nichols were paid at that 
 • time £45 10s. 
 
 22127. Rev. Dr. Graves. — During wiiat time had that bill accrued? — I cannot tell. 
 22123. Is it stated on tlie face of the account? — It is not. 
 
 22129. Is tiiat the last item entered? — Yes, itut there is no money due to them now, 
 for their account was discharged the other day. 
 
 22130. Tiiat account, though opened, was not kept nj)? — It was not kept up under a 
 separate head. 
 
 22131. Is there any account opened in the books under the head of repairs of buildings? 
 — There is no account kept under tlie liead of repairs of buildings ; it is kept under the 
 head of incidental ex[ieiuliture. 
 
 22132. But was there such an account formerly?— I think there was. 
 
 22133. Was such an account ever opened?— I do not see it was opened in this book. 
 
 22134. I think you will find it opened, but not kept up? — That is quite possible, but I 
 sec no index of it here. 
 
 2213.";. Did this book ever contain a general income and ex])eiiditiire account? — There 
 is no such thing in it ; nothing will show that but tiir :;nnnal audited accounts, 
 
 22130. Which are u])on separate sheets of jiajier '/ — Yes ; put all under their own head- 
 ings, and there is a balance sheet brought out, putting the gross amount of the several 
 items ag inst the expenditure. 
 
 22137. But this book, which professes to be a ledger, does not contain any general 
 . annual in ;ome and exjienditure account? — It does not. 
 
 22138 Is there such an account in any other book?- — Tin' blotter book shows the expen- 
 diture an 1 the receipts. 
 
 22 1 39 Not calculated ?— Not calculated. 
 
 22140. It is a mere daybook. Does the ledger contain any bank account?— It does not. 
 
 22141. Does it contain a funded jiroperty account?— It does not. 
 
 22142. Is that account to be found in any other book ?— The rents received and lodged 
 constitut)' the funded property of the governors; they have never more than £1,000 in 
 the fuiKl.'-; at one time. 
 
 22143. Then the funded property account is kept in that ledger? — It is. 
 
 22144. Has it been kept ii[) to the prtsent time?— .No; but I should tiiink the blotter 
 book shows the receipts. 
 
 22145. Mr. J/urjlies. — It does not go beyond October, IS53? — The books will show 
 when the accounts arc written up to. 
 
 2214'i. l!f'v. Dr. Grai'e.f. — Is any separate account k(^])t of fees ])aid by the governors 
 <jn their ajipointiiient, or that used to be paid by the governors? — Yes. 
 
 22147. Is it in that ledger?— It is ; under tiie head Aldermen and Sheriffs. 
 
 22148. Do you keep an account of the fees paid by the bishops on their consecration ? — 
 They do not pay them at all.
 
 Addison IIdiio, »'1. 
 
 EVIDENCE. 14!) 
 
 22149. Have tlicy ceased to pay them? — They have. Duuhn. 
 
 22150. Was the ])avniont a mere cnstoiiiary one, or was it in tlie nature of a ooiiinositioii ? ,, . ". — , ,. 
 — It was HI the nature of a conijiusition. 1 he hisho])s |)aul it ni lieu of a consecration feast Schmi oj K'm<i 
 that was formerly i^iveii ; tlict jiaynient was eontiiincil for some time, hut of Iat(! they have i'.hnrks 1 1 ^, cumnnmhi 
 ceased to pay it 1 tliiiik tiu' last money was i)aid hv th(.' present liislioi) ef .Meatli. „, '■""''''''"' 
 
 .•,.,,.,',,■' ^, ,. , ,. . -^ o MM ■ r 1 <■ ,1 1 1 Blur V'lal lliisiiiliil. 
 
 221.'>1 Do tlie bishops refus(^ to pay it .-^ — 1 '"'y did not refuse, iuir tliey have been 
 forwarded letters and returned no answers. 
 
 221,52. Tlie fee was a eoinnuitation for an entertainment to tlie Priw Council. — So wo 
 Iiav(! reason to heliine. 
 
 221.''>:5. Is any account l<i']it of tlie expenses attendant upon the (>.\amiuations of the 
 hoys in tiie .school'.' — It is entered under tii(! head of incidental expenses. 
 
 221.54. Is it mixed up with other items? — It is. 
 
 221.5.7. A separate account is of course kept with the Governors of Krasmus Smith's 
 Schools; in what book is it'entcred? — In the day ledger and the rental 
 
 22i5G. I saw notices in the miiuites of bequests having been left to the hos]>itaI ; is 
 any acccnint kept oF bequests? — 'I'liere is no account kept of tiiem ; tliercHias been no 
 bequest left to the hospital since I went there, excejit liy the death of a man named 
 Charles Ilemmings; the money was i-eceived and accounted for. Ther«i is now one pend- 
 ing in the case of a man named Williams, wiio died, leaving his property to the hospital 
 on the deatii of his widow, who now holds it. 
 
 22157- That is, she has a survivor's interest?— Yes ; but there is inom^y in the funds 
 which must remain there: and some house in Uussell-strect. 
 
 22158. I ask the question because I saw references made in the minutes to becjnests 
 having been made to the institution by persons who were originally educated in the school. 
 — I am not aware of any (jtlier instance but that of Hammings, who was educated in the 
 school. 
 
 22159. Is the ledger of disbursements intended to give a complete account of all the 
 expenditure of the institution? — I think so. 
 
 22l(i0. Is it possil)le tliat any item could be charged under the head of exjienditure in 
 the annual statement, although not appearing in the ledger? — I will not say but such a 
 thing might be, but it must have been vouclied when the accounts came to be audited. 
 
 22101. Would you turn to page 130 of the account; there is an item there under the 
 head of repairs, would you be so good as to read it? — ^" Repairs of building." 
 
 22I()2. What is the amount ? — There is no amount carried out. 
 
 221i).'3. I should have said the item printing and stationery, instead of repairs. The 
 amount entered is £9, and the corresponding amount appearing in tlie annual account 
 is .£;55 17*'.; tlierefore, it apjjears tiiat an item may be charged in the annual statement, 
 
 and yet not appear in the ledger or any book at all Such a thing ought not to he, nor 
 
 1 hardly think it is so ; that large amount you refer to may be made up of .small items. 
 
 2211)4. In the same account-b(Kjk I find an entry under the date of December, 185,3, 
 "linen," alone: there is no other entry made, but in the annual account the item is put 
 down £7 \)s. \()d. Of course tliore wcye vouchers produced, but the hook does not con- 
 tain any entt'}- of the particulars. — That is a, large item not to appear in some shape. 
 
 2216.5. ]\Ir. Hughes- — There is a blank after the entry in the book. — Is it after " repairs 
 of building?" 
 
 221(J6. "No, hut ''linen." 
 
 221fJ7. Kev. Dr. Graves — I pointed your attention to it for the purpose of showing the 
 w.ay in ■\vhich the accounts stood in tlie annual statement, while there was error or 
 accidental omission in the books. — That item is taken from vouchers; there is no item 
 allowed except £10 a-year for stamps and postage. 
 
 2216S. It appears to me, it would be a more satisfactory method of keeping the 
 accounts, if the annual accounts themselves were part of the accounts as shown in the 
 hooks? — It ■would, no doubt. 
 
 221 ''9. The Commissioners desire to know liow these accounts are certified? — The 
 accounts, as they pass, are initialed by some one of the auditing parties, and the accounts 
 themselves are signed by the parties auditing them. 
 
 22170. Is the sheet of annual accounts certified by the signature of one or more of the 
 committee of accounts ? — I think so. 
 
 22171. Are you quite sure that that is the practice? — I am quite sure that they are 
 certified by tlie parties auditing them. 
 
 22172. The annual accounts? — Yes. 
 
 22173. If a question arose on any particular day, as to whether the hospital had sufH- 
 cient means to warrant them in increasing their pecuniary expenditure, how could you 
 ascertain whether the funds were adequate or not, if the accounts are only audited 
 once a year? — I tvonid ascertain the amount by the blottcir-book, which contains .all the 
 receipts and jiayments; if that book be kept correctly, the balance could be ascertained ; 
 there might be a few pounds here and tliere, but the balancing of the blotter-account 
 would show the balance between nie and the governors. 
 
 22174. It would show the balance in your hands, but it -would not show how much 
 was available from funds in hands of the agent, or elsewhere. — I do not know that 
 it would ; all I meant was, that the account would show how I stood with the gover- 
 nors, or how I believed them to stand with me and the public ; I cannot tell what 
 m.ay be in the agent's hands, nor do any of the accounts; but the blotter will tell how I 
 stand with the governors.
 
 150 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 22175. But it would not tell how the governors etood in relation to their own estates 
 
 Hon ntuhviil Fr ■ ^""^ ^^^ public. — For instance, as to the Noddstown property, the rent comes up in the 
 
 Si-lwul of King shape of an account annually ; there is always a running gale of half a year ; whether the 
 
 Charles II.', commonly agent there niislit have that, or what portion of it ho might have in his hands, I have no 
 
 Blue'ctVLpital. means Of telling , . . , 
 
 Addison Hone Esq 2217G. Are these accounts kept as a merchants accounts are kept? — 1 thuik the 
 
 accounts are in the way tliey should be kept ; I do not see how I could keep any agent's 
 
 account, except when he has furnished it up to the usual period. 
 
 22177- Do you think the accounts are kept in such a manner as to show, as regularly 
 as it ought to be shown, the financial condition of the governors at any particular time ? — 
 I think if I was asked how they stood at present with th.e hospital, I should see the 
 account of each party up to the present ; but I could not tell, nor could any man tell, the 
 precise sum otherwise, because the taxes and other charges, though they are closely 
 accounted for aJraost to the day every year, still, what they might be for the ensuing 
 month or six weeks I could not tell. 
 
 22178. Dr. Andreu's. — Have you an^' means of finding out what aiTears are in the agent's 
 hands, so that tlie governors can ascertain at any moment what may be outstanding? — 
 There is no book or document containing such information, but the rental wliich is fur- 
 nished by the agent, will show how he stands up to that time. 
 
 22179. Kev. Dr. Graves Practically, the governors would have to ask questions of 
 
 this kind, when they are called upon to consider whether they would be warranted in 
 admitting boys into the school — they must ask what funds they have available, and what 
 prospect there is of increase or diminution of their income ; how are they to ascertain 
 these facts ? — Tlirough me. 
 
 22180. j\Iu8t they take your general impression? — 1 think so; for instance, they 
 admitted in last December ten boys; the committee sat from day to day; and 1 stated to 
 them that I thought the funds wore in such a state as would warrant them admitting the 
 boys ; they accordingly recommended to the board their admission, and ten boys were 
 admitted; there was a balance in bank at the time of £1,000 or £1,100. 
 
 22181. Were not some alterations in tho mode of keeping the accounts called for some 
 years ago by the Commissioners of Public Accounts? — 1 think not. 
 
 22182. Mr. Hur/hes There were, in 1844. Do you recollect the letter of Mr. Rawlinson? 
 
 — Yes. 
 
 22183. Then there was a letter from Mr. Pennefather? — Yes; and the accounts were 
 furnished according to his direction, and Mr. Rawlinson went over them at that time. He 
 said such and such was the mode of keeping the accounts, and according to his views the 
 accounts have been kept. 
 
 22184. i!ev. Dr. Graves —On the 17th of Ma}-, 1842, Mr. Rawlinson, the auditor, wrote 
 a letter, from which the following is an extract — " With reference, however, to the pro- 
 duction of an account in such form as the Lord Lieutenant may think fit, under sec. 137 of 
 the Act 3 and 4 Vic, c. 108, to require, and to the transmission of that account, under sec. 
 213, to the Auditors of Public Accounts, subject to such examinations as the several acts 
 constituting their board require them to give to any account so referred to them, I beg 
 leave to suggest to the governors of your institution, as an advisable preliminary arrange- 
 ment, the preparation of a statement, showing the title under which tlie estate is held by 
 them, the terms and conditions of the several existing leases made by them, of the different 
 lots thereon, the names of the tenants, and of the present occupiers of the land, the pre- 
 sent rdnt, and tho probable prospective increase of value on the renewal of leases; in short, 
 .such general and full information as any individual coming into possession of such a pro- 
 perty, would naturally wish to possess." What steps were taken by the governors to 
 com])ly with that request on the part of tlie Commissioners for Aiuliting Public Accounts ? 
 — I tliink all the information was fiu-nished to them by Mr. O'Brien. 
 
 22185. Who is Mr. O'Brien?— He is an accountant. 
 
 22180. Is there any accountant attached to the hospital ? — No; but at the period to 
 wliich Mr. liawlinsou's letter refers, it was thought necessary to bring in an accountant. 
 
 22187. Was the state of the accounts such that it was thought necessary to employ an 
 accountant to put them in order? — The accounts had accumulated ; the governors had not 
 audited them for some reason or other. The accounts were, however, ready, and in the 
 hands of the governors, but they did not examine into them, and they got into arrear. 
 They were not audited for four or five years. 
 
 22188. But were the accounts kept regularly ? — Yes. 
 
 22 ISO. And all that was retjuired was for tho governors to audit them ? — Yes. 
 
 22190. Were those rentals, of wliich Mr. Rawlinson noticed the want, k(q)t regularly ? — 
 I do not tliink he noticed the want of such documents ; he merely stated that it would be 
 advisable to keep them. 1 think that aU the information required was furnished by Mr. 
 O'Brien. 
 
 22191. Mr. UiKjhes. — But did these rentals exist before Mr. O'Brien furnished tho 
 information you state; ho did not furnish it until thc^ mouth of October, 1845? — Tho 
 docunu'uts you speak of did not exist. Tlic rentals and voucliers and pajjors of tho board, 
 are all under lock and key. iMr. O'lhien had jiccess to all these papers of tho governors, 
 for the purpose of giving tlie information which was required. 
 
 22102. liov. Dr. Graves. — This is au extract from a report written by Jlr. O'Brien, dated 
 30th December, 1844 — " I would strongly urge upon the committee tlie absolute necessity 
 of having a book prepared, containing an alphabetical list of all tlic muniments of the hos-
 
 EVIDENCE. l.')l 
 
 pital now to bo obtained ; and of its Tua])s, Ijooks, and ])apcrs connected witb its estates. Dijiuu. 
 
 No attempt at tlie iireparation of such a book lias been made since tlic year 1773; and I „ ■~i , 7- 
 may coniidt^Mtly a])[)eal to some members 01 the coinnnttcc, as to tlie iacility a book or tliat Srhool of Kimj 
 description would bavc ;^iven in their i-ecent inquiries, and bow much of their valuable time Charles J/., mmmonli/ 
 it would iiavo saved, independent of its bein.!^ a most useful and ready reference. If tbere y^/„^, "y^,,' ji'usniial 
 wer(! copii'd into it tlic rentals and accounts to be pre[)ared for tlie Commissioners for ^^j,ij^f,n ij„„e ].-j„. 
 Auditing Public Accounts, it would stand as a record of tbo utmost value to the governors, 
 and tbeir successors, by showing the present position of the estate of the hospital, its 
 income, and its expenditure." Now, if the accounts of the governors had been regularly 
 ke[)t, as yon intimated, surely there would have been no need for the {(reparation of such 
 a book as Mr. O'Hrieu sj)eaks of ; and he distinctly states, that no such book existed ? — No 
 such book does exist. There is no book to show their leases or their title-deeds ; but I 
 am greatly inclined to think he was employed to do it. 
 
 22193. What was the state of things out of which grew the necessity of employing iVIr. 
 O'Brien ? — I cannot answer that question. I cannot tell for what reason Mr. 0'j>rien 
 thought it necessary that there should be a registry of the title-deeds of the hospital; nor 
 am 1 able to tell why it was not kept. 
 
 22194. What steps did the governors take, in consequence of Mr. OBrien's report '? — 
 AVhat do you mean by what steps did they take? 
 
 22195. How did they act on his report; did they adopt his recommendations? — There 
 were a great many of his recommendations that they did not adopt. 
 
 22196. Will you be so good as to state exactly what they did in consequence of his 
 report? — If you ask nie particularly what they did or did not adopt, I will endeavour to 
 answer you. His report is a very voluminous one. 
 
 22197. You heard me read a passage from his report just now; did they adopt 
 the recommendation contained in that ? — They kept the accounts in the way you 
 have seen. 
 
 22198. Did they adopt the recommendation contained in that passage? — I cannot tell 
 you that they did. The accounts were regularly audited once a-year. They kept no 
 further books; therefore, of course, they did not adopt it. 
 
 22199- Was not such a book, as mentioned by Mr. O'Brien, prepared according to his 
 recommendation ? — There was no book whatever prepared, except what was prepared by 
 liimself. 
 
 222(J0. But had such a book existence before ? — I think not. 
 
 22201. Then, with the exception of the jireparation of that report by Mr. O'Brien 
 himself, no alteration was made in the mode of keeping the accounts of the hospital ? — 1 
 think not. 
 
 22202. You keep the accounts, and you ought to be able to state with certainty 
 whether or not ? — 1 say I do not think there were any alterations made in the accounts. 
 
 22203. Can you state positively whether there were any alterations or not ? — 1 think 
 none ; that is my impression. 
 
 22204. Were the accounts kept in the .same way, after and previous to Mr. O'Brien's 
 report ? — There might have been some alteration in the making up of the accounts. 
 
 22205. But your system of accounting remains the same as it was before Mr. O'Brien 
 reported ? — I think that all the books were kept in the same way as before Mr. O'Brien 
 reported. There have been no additional books kept since. 
 
 22206. Now, if the accounts of the hospital had been duly kept, the different heads of 
 income and expenditure calculated, a complete rental kept, and a list prepared of the 
 different title-deeds and other inuniments belonging to the hospital, what would have been 
 the necessity for calling in Mr. O'Brien at all? — If every thing was kept as it ought to 
 have been kept, there would have been no necessity. 
 
 22207- Then, the employment of Mr. O'Brien arose out of the negligent keeping of the 
 accounts previous to the year 1844? — I beg your pardon; it was on account of the 
 governors not undertaking the labour of auditing the accounts. 
 
 22208. Did these lists exist, and were they kept up to the time that I speak of, in 1844 ? 
 — Every thing was regularly kept. 
 
 22209- Then, if all the accounts were kept in that condition, what need was there to call 
 in any one to a.ssist in the preparation of these sheets, in order to enable the governors to 
 to pass their accounts before the Commissioners of Public Accounts '? — There was no regis- 
 try of the title deeds, which became a matter of great and needful inquiry, and formed part 
 of the necessity of calling in Mr. O'Brien ; but the accounts were kept in the same manner 
 as usual, and when Mr. O'Brien came in to audit these accounts, under the order of the 
 board, he took the accounts from me as they were made up. 
 
 22210. Mr. Hughes- — I will now read what appears in your own handwriting. This is 
 a minute of the committee of accounts, dated 4th of August, 1 845 : — " The registrar having 
 brought before the committee, a statement of credits to which he is entitled, having in his 
 accounts passed since the year 1830, charged the weekly money to servants, for several of 
 the said years, as forty-eight weeks in each year, instead of fifty- two weeks; we have examined 
 the said statement, and find'that Mr. Hone is entitled to credit on account of such omissions 
 for the sum of £77 8«. ; and as we are of opinion that such omissions having occm-red 
 previous to the accounts to be submitted to the Commissioners for Auditing Public Accounts, 
 the amount thereof £77 8a\, should be deducted from the balance of the last audited 
 account, to the 28th of September, 1839, against i\Ir. Hone, of £167 O5. ohd-. leaving the 
 balance to be brought forward against Mr. Hone, in the first account, of £89 12s. b\d."
 
 152 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COIMMISSION. 
 
 Ucm.t-s-. l"rom that it would appear, tliat by th.j last audited account, the 2Stli December, Ifeo9, tlic 
 
 , balance against you was £1G0, arid that the errors of chai-ging iorty-cight weeks in the 
 
 '%',"'"{ "II'l/"'' year instead of iifrv-two. continued to the period to which tlie minute refer.-* ? — It continued 
 
 Sc/imil of KiHtf .' • ■■ 1 i' , 1 1 11 1 1 /. 1 1 1 
 
 cii((rle>: II.'. commmli/ down to that period. 1 used to charge tlie weekly money at tlic end ol tlie month, at the 
 culled the yAte of four wcolis, and on tlio accounts being examined it was found that that was my 
 
 Blue CoatHo.'i,Ual. ^^^^^ ^,^^ y,h\c\x tlic Governors, when it ajipeared to them, allowed me. 
 
 Aflili'on Ilimo, l'.=q 22211. The i-Cdson i referred to the minute, was for the purpose of refreshing your 
 memory relative to the question of Dr. Graves — a'; to whether the accounts were kept in 
 the same condition after they had been examined by ^Ir. O'Brien? — Of course, that error 
 was rectified, and any others that were found : I do not mean to say exactly that they were 
 in the same condition. It is quite possible that any improvements recommended were 
 adopted : but ilr. OHrien's being brought in was not iny doing, nor was it my fault. I had 
 the accounts made up, whether correct or incorrect : but I could not get them audited. I 
 did not know what to do ; I could not tell the actual bnlance. I then said to tlic Governors, 
 that they could add to the number of the gentlemen who usually audited, with the power, 
 if thev thought it advisable, of calling in an accountant. When they met they t-aw the 
 difficultv themselves, and they agreed to call in an accountant, and they named j\lr. O'Brien. 
 I never saw .Mr. O'Brien, nor did I know him i'rom Adam, ^^'hen ho was named, I said 
 that two months before I had heard at the I'ominercial Buildings that he was a man of 
 upright character, ilr. O'Brien was accordingly named. 'J'he committee had certified the 
 vouchersto.be correct ; and when Mr. O'Brien came in he said to them, •• You are the best 
 judges of the correctness of these vouchers:" but they told him to take the vouchers and 
 put the accounts into shape; and ho did put them into sha])e. 
 
 22212. IJev. Dr. Graves. — You admit, then, that Mr. (jBrien ])ut tliem into shape? — 
 They had been shaped by me for several years, but of course the balances miglit not be 
 correct, or correctly brought otit; but he balanced the accounts. 
 
 22213. .Mr llwjhcs. — Have you got the accounts tiiat you had prepared for auditing this 
 year? — I will not say that I have not, nor that I have. If the new accounts were actually 
 made out. it might be doubtful that I could produce them. 
 
 22214. Kev. Dr. Graves. — The board seems to have considered that there was some special 
 advantage in the form of accounts |>repared by 'S\r. O'Brien, for tliey directed that correct 
 duplicates of them should bo made out. Did you ever receive any directions from the 
 governors to dr.xw up the annual accounts in the same form? — There has been no order to 
 alter the form of accounts. The accounts are audited, and the way in which they are kept 
 is in accordance with the order of the board. 
 
 22215. Am I to understand you as saying conclusively that the reason wiiy Mr. O'Brien 
 was employed to inspect the accounts of the hospital was that the governors wished to have 
 his assistance in auditing them, whilst they were perfectly satislied with the mode in which 
 all the accounts were kept? — I did not hear them say tliey were perfectly satisfied, tJierc- 
 fore 1 will not give evidence to that eifcct. 1 repeat the reason of Mr. O'Brien being called 
 in was, Ijccause the governors (and with this statement the registrar, of course, is connected) 
 had not correct lists of their leases, and other documents, and to correct them. 
 
 222 1 G. Do you s,ay he was not brought in for the ]>nrpose of doing the business ^vhich 
 tlie registrar might have been ex]iocted to do? — No, he was not. 
 
 2221". JSut you admit he was I'lnploycd to prepare the annual accounts fi>r five years, 
 which were afterwards passed? — No; I will not admit any such thing, lie was brought 
 in to see tliat they were correct. 
 
 22218. Did you not state just now that he shaped them ? — He might have made some 
 alteration in them, hut they were shajjed before he saw tiicm. lie was not brought in on 
 account of the guvernors disputing the mode of keeping the accounts. 
 
 22211). Wiiat time did .Mr. O'llrien spi'iid in lierformiiig this task committed to him by 
 the governors? — At first, i thiol;, the arrangement witli him was, that he was to be paid 
 SO much. 
 
 22220. Mr. Tlu'jhes. — Il.alf a guinea an houi- ? — It was to be charged from his own door 
 until he got back. After some lew days he said to himself this was rather expensive, for 
 h'^ was paid for walking fro)u his own home and walking back, whicli w;is a considerable 
 (.listanco. lie deemed it advisable tliat he should do tlie work at his home, whicli the 
 governors agreed to, and it was so done by him. 
 
 22221. Here is a memorandum of yours in 184G: — "That this committee earnestly 
 recommend to the board to take advantage of iMr. O'Brien's very liberal olfer to forego his 
 contract, and to request his acceptance of the sum of £41)0, as very moderate conqieiisation 
 for ills very valuable service, in lieu of all existing claims ui)on this institution." — That is 
 the report of tin? committee, not mine; and he Avas paid tiiat 1"400. 
 
 22222. licv. Dr. Graves — I find ])y a letter addressed iiy Mr. Edward O'Brien to 
 Addison Ilonc, Eh(|., dated 7th December, 1S4G, that ho stated that he twice made out 
 these accounts? — He had, in fact, five years' accounts to make out twice. 
 
 22223. Wiiat amount of remuneration was given to Mr. O'Brien for this very laborious 
 task?— lie got £400. 
 
 22224. Was that paid at once ? — I think it was ]);i!(l in one sum, .-uid that h(> got interest 
 on it for half a-year, or, jnay bo, a year. I remember he made apjilication, and the gover- 
 nors had not at tiicir command the means of discharging Ids demand. They said, in tliat 
 
 ■< case it was only reasonable he should be paid interest, and he was paid interest. 
 
 2222.5. Mr. /hi;/hes. — Do jou know out of what funds Mr. O'Brien was paid ':' — Tiic fund 
 of Captain Ilemmings.
 
 EVIDENCE. 153 
 
 2222G. Tlioy sol<l out capital stock ?— They did. Dubun. 
 
 22227. Kuv. Dr. Graves. — Do I uiulerstiiiid you to Kay tliat Mr. O'lJrien was paid very ii,,^,;^^ ,, p 
 shortly? — I do not nay sliortly, because 1 stated lie was paid interest befoj-c he was paid sdwolofKin" 
 
 the full amount. (.'harks II.. cotmnonty 
 
 22228. I find iVom a letter of tlie 12th of June, 1848, that he was prcs.sing for payment, 2^i„/("^f jj^^,;,,,/ 
 which had not been made to him up to that time ? — Ho was not paid at once ; it was a long ''* ""^ '""''' " ' 
 tmie l)eior(> he was ])aid. 
 
 22229. At what rate was he paid interest ? — I think he was paid interest at the rate of 
 si.x per cent. 
 
 22230. Dr. Aiulrew.s. — The page is open before us which records tlie payment to Mr. 
 O'Brien—" September i:3th, 1848, paid E. O'liricn, £400." 
 
 22231. Kov. Dr. Graves. — Do you know to what period of time any com])lete rental of 
 the estates of the governors was made out, prior to that made out by Mr. Edward O Brien ? — 
 I cannot tell you. 
 
 22232. Did" you make out any complete rental when you became registrar? — No. 
 
 22233. Mr. O'Brien states that there had not been a comjilete rental made out since the 
 year 1773? — I do not think that is the way he intended it to be read, for I am certain 
 there was. 
 
 22234. The governors contracted a debt in the building of the hospital, and raised money 
 by debentures, which were afterwards paid off; tins fact is mentioned in the report of the 
 Commissioners of 1809-12 ; do any debts of that kind exist at the present time ? — No. 
 
 22235. I sec upon the minute book of the governors reference made to a loan obtained 
 from the Bank of Ireland ; are you acquainted with the circumstances which led to that 
 loan? — It was a loan borrowed upon the fund of Captain Hemmings ; they thought it 
 desirable to raise the money by loan from the Bank of Ireland, giving them the security 
 which they had ; this was an arrangement come to prior to the money being sold out. 
 
 2223G. Stock was afterwards sold ; was not some objection made by the governors 
 to the sale of stock forming part of the capital stock ? — I do not recollect that there was 
 any objection. 
 
 22237. Did not one of the governors protest against it as illegal ? — I do not recollect 
 it ; but if any thing of the sort occurred, it is entered on the minutes. 
 
 22238. Do you not recollect the circumstance of one of the trustees of the funded pro- 
 perty resigning in consequence of the governors interfering with the stock ? — We consid- 
 ered they had no power over the stock. 
 
 22239. Which of the governors was it ? — Mr. Quinton. 
 
 22240. Was there not another governor who resigned ? — Mr. Mallet resigned, but his 
 reason for resigning was that he did not wish to embroil himself in any difficulties about 
 it, for he saw the governors disposed to take their own course, and Mr. Quinton equally 
 determined to take his. 
 
 22241. Did not Mr. Mallet state, as a ground for his resignation, that the sale of stock 
 was illegal ? — I am not prepared to say that he did ; but if he did, it is on the minutes. 
 
 22242. Did he not also, at the same time, protest against the sale of stock, on the ground 
 that the accounts of the institution had not been rendered for two years ? — I do not recol- 
 lect Mr. ^lallet's letter, but whatever Mr. Mallet's reasons were, they are recorded on the 
 face of the minutes. 
 
 22243. ]\lr. Hiujhes.—llQva is a letter of Mr, Mallets, dated 14tli October, 1846 :— 
 
 98, Capel-street, 14th October, 1S4G. 
 
 " Dear Sir, — Respecting the resolution come to yesterday at the Board of the Blue 
 Coat Hospital, for the sale of part of the funded property belonging to that institution, to 
 the amount of £500, to meet the urgency of claims on said institution. I hereby, as one of 
 the trustees of the said funded property, protest against such proceeding, inasmuch as that 
 I not only consider it illegal from the beginning, but uncalled for in the present state of 
 things ; illegal, for that the resolution was not passed until after the chairman had left the 
 chair, and the majority of governors present had left the board-rQom ; its illegality extends 
 much further, as 1 am informed. I believe the governors have as much right to sell the 
 estate of Noddstown, or any other part of the whole of the property belonging to the 
 institution, as they have to sell any portion of the funded projierty — the whole of which, 
 of all kinds, is, by the return of the accounts of the institution, up to September, 1844, now 
 wholly before the government ; therefore, for the alienation of any part of the property, the 
 governors, but especially the trustees for the i'unded property, are personally liable ; I, 
 therefore, by this, do protest against the sale of the funded property, either in compliance 
 with the above-mentioned resolution or in anywise, and the more especially as your two 
 last years" accounts with the institution have not as yet been laid before the Board of 
 Governors, and thereby let them see how you and they stand. I trust you have not em- 
 ployed any stockbroker to sell out the above-mentioned £500, as I should be sorry your 
 having done so should be productive of any inconvenience to you; but if you should have 
 done so, I tell you plainly, I will not sign the transfer ; and when I state that, I may state 
 also, I speak the sentiments of one of the other trustees. 
 
 " I am, dear sir, your obedient, 
 
 " A. Hone, Esq., " John Mallet. 
 
 " King's Hospital, Oxmantown." 
 Vol. II. X
 
 154 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 22244. The following resolution was adopted on the reading of the above letter: — 
 
 Hospital and Free " Resolved — That a copy of Captain Hemming's will, of the resolution of the board of 
 
 School of Kin;, June, 1830, vesting his bequest in trustees, together with a copy of the ilunicipal Act, 
 
 calkdthe ' reqmnng the accounts ot the hospital to be submitted to tbe Commissioners of Audit, 
 
 Blue Coat Hospital, together witli Till-. JIallet's letter, be laid before counsel for his opinion as to the powers of 
 
 Addison Hone, Esq. the board over the principal sum so vested in trustees." 
 
 22245. Eev. Dr. Graves. — It was following up that objection that Mr. Mallet resigned 
 his place as a trustee ; and did not ditBculties ari.se in the way of the sale of the stock ? — 
 I do not tliiuk there did ; Mr. Quinton raised the objection, and I rather think Mr. Mallet 
 founded his objection on that of Mr. Quinton, who, in early life, was a member of the audit 
 office ; and it was in that way Mr. Quinton conceived tbe idea of putting the accounts under 
 the control of the audit office, and under that of some public board ; and Mr. Mallet's opinion 
 was I believe pinned to Mr. Quinton's project. Mr. Mallet first resigned his office as trustee, 
 and afterwards an attempt was made to induce Mr. Quinton to assent to the sale of the 
 stock, but he refused to do so. 
 
 22246. Do you remember what steps were taken to compel as.sent? — I remember the 
 board gave him notice that they would employ their law agent to compel him to assent, or 
 resign his trust. 
 
 22247. Did they employ the law agent ?— They did. 
 
 22248. Did lie afterwards consent to resign his situation as trustee? — He did, and paid 
 the costs, amounting to £37. 
 
 22249. Mr. Hughes. — Mr. Mallet's resignation was tendered and received by the board 
 on the 9th of August, 1847 ?— What is the date of the payment of the £400 ? 
 
 222.50. Dr. ^/jc^rctws.— loth of September, 1848. 
 
 22251. [Mr. R. Hickson (Government Accountant in the service of the Commissioners). — 
 The transfer of the stock is tbe 9th of March, 1847.] 
 
 22252. Rev. Dr. Graves. — I learn by the minutes of the board of 1 1th of October, 1842, 
 that a committee was appointed to inquire into the means of increasing tlie funds 
 
 22253. [Mr. Hughes. — I beg your pardon, Dr. Graves. I find it was si.^ per cent, that 
 was to be paid to Mr. O'Brien ; and it appears that the governors contemplated raising 
 money from the Bank of Ireland at four per cent., and paying off Mr. O'Brien, and thereby 
 saving two per cent.] 
 
 22254. Rev. Dr. Graves. — I was saying, that I found from the minutes of the board of 
 governors, that on the Uth of October, 1S42, a committee was appointed to inquire into 
 the means of increasing the funds, and diminishing the expenditure, and augmenting the 
 number of pupils in the school. Do you know whether any change took jjlace in consequence 
 in tliB general management of the institution? — What is the date to which you refer? 
 
 22255. October, 1842. Are you aware whether any change took place in the general 
 administration of the hospital, for the purpose of accompHshing this object ? — I do not 
 think there did ; it would be contained in the report of the coniniittee to whom it was 
 referred. 
 
 2225G. Do the governors calculate upon any increase in the funds now available? — Oh, 
 no ; they calculate upon the legacy left by Captain Williams, and to wliicli the old lady has a 
 right during her life. She is a very old woman ; and of course at her death there will be a 
 considerable increase. The house, as far as I underst.and, is worth £30 a-year, and there 
 is £2,000 in the Bank funds. There was originally something about £3,000 in the funds, but 
 she got about £700 by the order of the court. 
 
 22257. Do the governors count upon any increase in the rents arising out of their landed 
 estates, or house property ? — I do not know of any addition that is likely to take place to 
 the funds from land ; but there is a building in our neigbbourliood which will be out of 
 lease in two years, but I do not think there will be an increase of income by it. 
 
 22258. The Commissioners on Municipal Corporations in Ireland, 1835, state — " The 
 gross amount of the rents now payable out of tlie promises in St(!phen"s-green and 0.\man- 
 town-green is £507 t-s. 9id., and there are some tenements out of lease which will further 
 increase the amount." Do you think that that statement can be correct ? — I think the 
 income is more than £508 ; taking the fee-farm and other rents I make it £780. 
 
 22259. Then the Commissioners go on to state — " In the course of thirty or forty years 
 the interest of the hos|)ital in this jjrojjorty will be very large."— I do not know of any thing 
 to f;ill in e.xcept wliat has fallen in ; but 1 suppose the i)roperty wliicb has fallen in would 
 increase tlie rent to £844. 
 
 22200. Will you Ije so good as to read the items from your return which make up that 
 £844 ? — Tlie statement bears reference to tlio heading of 1853. 
 
 22261. Where are the items to make up this large sum you mention ? — It is by reference 
 to returns. 
 
 22262. This is a formal document returned by you to us, and has reference to the receipts 
 of one year ; you ought to be able to give us tlie particulars ? — 1 did not come prepared to 
 answer this question. 
 
 22263. You jtrofess to give there a statement of the rents arising out of different parts 
 of landed property. I ask, with reference to tiiat return, wliat rents are set forth as coming 
 from the ])rop(!rty in Ste])hen's-green and O.xmantown ? — Tiiat is not the way 1 r(;ad it at 
 all. This return has reference to return No. 2. 
 
 22264. jMr. Hughes. — Is not this your own return? — 1 conceived that this document 
 would not hold the information you required.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 155 
 
 put 
 
 under the heading " Endowments from 
 
 22265. llcv. Dr. Graves. — What have you 
 land ?" — That is your own printed heading. 
 
 22266. Mr. Jlui/hts. — When we send you another return we shall expect you to make an 
 accurate one — 1 did not look upon the return you sent me in the point of view you are 
 putting it. 
 
 22267. I am not putting it in any other point of view than the reading of tlie printed 
 heading indicates? — I give you the gross income for 18.53, as £2,531, wliich is correct. 
 
 22268. Do you swear that ? — Yes ; it is correctly stated from the printed accounts, which 
 have passed. 
 
 22269. liev. Dr. Graves. — Can that bo from land only ? — I do not say land ; I take the 
 actual income that is received in the wliole estahlishment. 
 
 22270. ]\Ir. Hugli.es — Did you read the heading of tlie return? — I did; and took the 
 actual income received and the expenditure from my accounts. 
 
 22271. Is not expenditure outgoings? — I do not distinguish the expenses of collection, 
 head-rent, &c. 
 
 22272. Would the word lands include house pro])erty? — Certainly. 
 
 22273. Then you have made an incorrect return altogether. 
 
 22274. llev. Dr. Graves. — You have in the document annexed to your return professed 
 to give a schedule of tlie diifercnt rents arising out of lands and houses, I wish you to state 
 what are the rents arising ? — That is not correct. I did not read the word lands as I should. 
 
 22275. Quite apart from tliat mistake, you ought to find in the paper now in your hand, 
 a correct statement of tlie rents for the Stephen's-green and Oxmantown properties. 
 
 22276. Air. llagkes You gave the description, the annual income, and annual out- 
 goings ? — It docs not give them. 
 
 22277. llev. Dr. Graves. — It gives them for both? — But it does not give them for the 
 whole. 
 
 22278. We will ask you to amend that return, or rather we will ask you to furnish us 
 with a new return giving a correct statement of the rents arising both out of lands and 
 houses. Would you be so good as to read from that same return, how you have filled up 
 the column bearing reference to personal estate ? — I have merely put in here £997 155. 1 Qd. 
 in the three and a tpiarter per cents., which came to the hospital by Captain Hemming's 
 will in 1838. 
 
 22279. Is that all the personal estate the hospital is possessed of? — I think so; the 
 interest on that £997. 
 
 22280. Is that .sum included in the sum you have set down under the head of endow- 
 ment out of land ; is it included in the £2,800 in the printed form ?— It is included in the 
 income of £2,800. 
 
 22281. Included in the receipts arising out of land ? — It is included in that. 
 
 22282. You have stated, generally, that the governors do not contemplate any considerable 
 increase in their revenue arising out of land and houses ? — I do not think they do. 
 
 22283. Then these questions would come before such a committee as that wliich was 
 appointed in October, 1842 — questions relating to the diminution of expenditure. Ilave 
 any attempts been lately made to diminish the expenditure of the institution ? — I do not 
 think there is any opportunit}' for diminishing it ; there is no waste. 
 
 22284. Have any definite measures of retrenchment been proposed? — No; there has 
 been, since the appointment of that committee, a very considerable expenditure for the 
 benefit of the estabhshment. 
 
 22285. Did not the Dean of St. Patrick's draw the attention of the governors to the need 
 of economical reform? — There has been, owing to the death of one of the medical officers, 
 an alteration. Formerly there was a physician and surgeon, each of whom had a separate 
 income. The death of Dr. Harty created a vacancy, and the board came to the resolution 
 of consolidating the offices, and they put Mr. Read, who was the surgeon in the establish- 
 ment, in possession of Dr. Ilartys place, increashig his income from £40, Irish, to £60, 
 British — he taking the whole duty. 
 
 22286. Then originally, and for a long time at all events, the hospital had both a 
 physician and surgeon, each receiving £40, Irish, for their salary? — They had. 
 
 22287- Was medicine supplied by them, or was any additional expenditure incurred under 
 this head ? — They did not supply medicine. 
 
 22288. Had you to pay the apothecaiy's bills? — We had to pay them. 
 
 22289. Then the expenses connected with the infirmary were considerable? — There was 
 that sum paid to the medical men, and the apothecary's bill, which fluctuated ; sometimes 
 it was heavy, and at other times not. 
 
 22290. Have you any idea what the apothecary's bills have amounted to ? — They are 
 recorded on the minutes. Wo paid the apothecary the other day, for three years, £71. 
 
 2229 1 . Then there must have been a great prevalence of sickness ?— At times there is, but 
 the medical officer is obliged to attend to the whole house ; he is not confined to the infirmary. 
 
 22292. The care of the health of the establishment has cost at least £72 a-year, besides 
 whatever may have been added on the score of apothecary's bills? — It has cost £71. 
 
 22293. No, but £72? — Yes; the medical officers were each paid £40 Irish. 
 
 22294. There are two servants attached to the establishment, independent of the officers ; 
 two nurses — a head nurse and an assistant — are they constantly resident in the establish- 
 ment? — They are ; the first, or head nurse, has nothing to do but to manage the establish- 
 ment — the other has to attend to the diet, but the principal portion of her duty is attached 
 to the infirmary ; the latter does some duties in the way of washing, &c. 
 
 Vol. II. X 2 
 
 DuBLur. 
 
 Iliispitat and Free 
 
 School of Kiny 
 
 Clmrlcs II., commonly 
 
 called the 
 Blue Coat Hoapiial. 
 
 Aildison Hone, Estj.
 
 AJilison Hone. Esq. 
 
 156 ENDOWED SCPIOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DuBLi.N. 22295. What salaries have the nurses? — The head nurse has £12 a-year ; the other has £7. 
 
 — — 22296. Have they any allowance besides? — Yes, they have is. bd. a-week; and they are 
 
 Sd!^flofKin,T allowed, of course, coals and hght for the infirmary. 
 
 Charles Jl.\ t:ommu„i,i 22297. Are they fed ? — No ; they get notliing but a portion of a leg of mutton on Sunday ; 
 
 called ilw ^^^^ ^[^f,j „q^ „q other provision, but formerly they got some weekly allowance, and an allow- 
 
 oi.pt a . ^^^^ ^^ bread. We consulted and arranged to give them 4^. Gd. a-week in lieu of what 
 
 were called perquisites. 
 
 22298. The care of the health of the boys has cost more than £100 a-year? — It has. 
 22299- Arc the boys generally speaking healthy? — They are. 
 
 22300. What diseases have prevailed in the school in your recollection ? — They get 
 scarlatina, measles, and hooping-cough; very often these things are brought on after vaca- 
 tion ; but very few boys, not more than ten, have died since I went there. 
 
 22.301. How is the cleanliness of the hoys provided for? — It is very amply provided for; 
 there is everj- means allowed for cleaning. 
 
 22302. whose duty is it to see that the boys avail themselves of these opportunities? — 
 It is the duty of the drill-master. 
 
 22303. Has scald-head or ringworm ever prevailed in the school? — Yes, both. 
 
 22304. What was done when these diseases showed themselves ? — There was a very 
 great difficulty experienced at one time with the scald-heads, but the disease was got under 
 after a great deal of trouble and time. 
 
 22305. But by what means was it overcome ? — That I do not know. 
 
 22306. J\lr. Hughes — I do not think the government stock was sold out until 1850 ; for 
 this reason, that I find a resolution of the board to the following effect: — "That the report 
 of the committee, dated 7th December, 1849. relative to the sale of a portion of Ilcmming's 
 fund be confirmed, and that the committee and trustees be empowered to carry same into 
 effect, by sale of the .stock, leaving to the credit of the hospital £1,000 stock." Then the 
 effect of the employment of Mr. O'Brien was to pay him £400 cash in the year 184S, and 
 1 find by your blotter, roughly written on the back, two sums of £32 and £19. making 
 together a sum of £451, and to pay interest at four per cent, to the Bank of Ireland on 
 £400 from 1848 up to 1850, when the stock was sold? — Yes. 
 
 22307. Now, in connexion w^th that resolution to which I have drawn your attention, I 
 find the following : — " That the board experience much regret that from the present posi- 
 tion of the hospital funds it is utterly impossible to fill the existing vacancies." Then I 
 find — " Sir Richard Baker and ilr. lirecn forwarded the name of Thomas F. JIackerin, 
 who would be of tlie age of eleven years the 29th JIarch next, who was previously examined, 
 and certified by the proper oihcer as qualified for admission — the oliject of this notice is to 
 save loss of time." I suppose he had been proijosod ? — That was a boy wlio had been 
 proposed, and he was coming up to Dublin to be admitted, but as he could not be then 
 admitted lie would have been over age, and the board considering it a great hardship that 
 he should be excluded on account of that, came to the resolution that a few months' differ- 
 ence in liis age should not operate against him, and that he should be admitted the next 
 vacancy. 
 
 22308. But that aro-se altogether from tlie state of the finances of the institution? — It did. 
 
 22309. Now what is the name of the denomination of land from which the largest share 
 of tlie revenue is derived by the institution ? — Tiio largest, I think, is Noddstown. 
 
 22310. The Commissioners wlio reported from 1807-12. state that Noddstown produced 
 £1,459 75'. — wiU you have tlie kindness to turn to the return that you gave us, and state 
 what is the income of that denomination at present? — I think it is £538. 
 
 2231 1. That is the gross income ? 
 
 2231 2. \_Secretari/. — £432 1 Is. 3d. is stated in Mr. Hone's return to be the nett income.] 
 
 22313. Do you know what fluctuations have taken place between 1810 and \i*55 respect- 
 ing the income of that estate? — I do not indeed; I do not know that we could get a 
 higlu'r rent tlian it is set for at present; there was a great deal (if trouble about that pro- 
 j)erty — a strong idea being entertained that there had been a portion of it, 100 acres, clipped 
 off by some arrangement or other. 
 
 223 1 4. Wiien did tlie clipping process take place? — I do not know; hut that circumstance 
 would not make tlie difference. 
 
 223 1 5. There is very nearly £900 a-year difference ? — There was a good deal of expense 
 gone to. and time lost, respecting that property, l)ut without success. 
 
 223 IC. They are called the rt'trenched lands? — Yes; and 1 tliink they were let some 
 years ago, for £700 a-year, but, I believe, it broke the man who had it. He had a con- 
 siderable property, independent of that liolding, and he died not worth a farthing. 
 
 22317. Did he underlet those lands to small tenants? — A very small ])art of them. 
 
 22318. Wliat was his name? — Graham ; but after Graliam's death a l)ody of the gover- 
 nors went down, and sjient a considerable time in getting all the information they were able. 
 
 22319- In a report, sulnnitted by t'le deputation whicli visited Noddstown, to the com- 
 mitt(;e, on the 10th Septendjer, 1H50, and adopted by a special iioard on 17th Septendier, 
 I find the following passage — " The deputation accordingly proclaimed that as the tenants 
 were largely in arrear, most of them for three years, they need not expect or hope that 
 the governors would consider favourably tlie application of any tenant for a lease, who did 
 not previously pay up one year's rentchargo and taxes, according to Mr. Chadwick's 
 valuation, on or befori; the 1st of November next. 
 
 " Vour deputation were (■Mj)ecially anxious to inqiress njion the minds of all, that the 
 governors wore determined to enforce the just rights of the hospital, and to sufl'er no man to
 
 EVIDENCE. 157 
 
 continue on the estate who did not exhibit an Iionesty of purpose, and an aLility to moot Dunus. 
 all rcasonal)lo demands u])on him." 
 
 22;5"iO. What was tlic result of the transaction ?— Th(>y did not pay the aiToars, and the "'''ifalumlFrce 
 governors were oI)li,i;-c<l to send down the law agent, wlio distranicd. lai't ot their stock Charles II., mmuionly 
 was sold by Mr. Tisdall, wlio was the law agent at that time. called the 
 
 '2-2321. Do you know what was tlie nett annual income received out of Noddstown, in ^^'"'' ^''"'" ^^»-y^''"'- 
 the year 1850, to the present time ?- I do not. ^'''^'«'" ^'°"^'' ^^"'1- 
 
 22:J22. Have you got the agent's (Mr. Minchin's) accounts? — Yes; the Commissioners 
 have them. 
 
 22,'52:i. Do you Jinow how niucli is due on the lands of Noddstown ? — 1 think the arrears 
 were £2,000. The ])roperty was divided into small lots, and occupied hy a great number 
 of tenants, and tlH> laud was not well cared or cultivated in any res[)ect. 
 
 22.'524. Do you kuovv' the number of acres contained in it? — 1 have put down D94 statute 
 acres. 
 
 2232.5. Does Mr. Miuchin"s rental give each tenant's holding ? — Yes. 
 
 2232(). You take charg-e, genci-ally — that is, you are the local officer superintending the 
 cstablislinient. I find here, under the date of jMarch, 1851, a report from the sujiorinten- 
 dent of police, in the following terms : — 
 
 G Division Office, Dublin, 1st April, l^i51. 
 
 " Having made strict inquiry, and examined several of the servants in the Blue Coat 
 Hospital institution, respecting the attempt made to burn the premises, I am quite satisfied 
 that it has not been done from the outside Ijy any malicious person ; but there can be no 
 doubt it was done by some person residing in t!ie house, and, 1 believe, by some of the 
 persons connected with what is called the lower department. I do not exclude the 
 housemaid in the front department. 
 
 " I was told by J\Ir. 8hirley, diill-m.astcr in the house, that AVilson, the porter, told him 
 there was, or must have been, a tarred rat put into the straw-house. 
 
 " When I questioned Wilson on that point, he denied having stated so to any one. A 
 girl in the laundry, named Green, has on several occasions expressed herself very im- 
 properly respecting the institution, and the authorities connected witli it, and particularly 
 against j\Ir. Hone. A great animosity exists between the servants in the front and lower 
 departments. I think the schoolboys are exempt from suspicion — the drill-master, Shirley's 
 statement fully exonerates them. It is ray opinion, from every inquiry I made, that the 
 attempt must have been made by some of the inmates of the institution, but for what 
 object I cannot state, as there is a great mystery in the transaction." 
 
 (Signed) Jamks Bhennan (32 A). 
 
 " The chaplain and drill-master were severally introduced into the board-room, questioned 
 as to the above transaction, but they could throw no light on the subject." 
 
 22327. It appears, then, there were three attempts made to set fire to the institution ? — 
 A boy made an admission that ho had something in his mind urging him on to burn it, as 
 Avell as I recollect. 
 
 2232S. What was the extent of the fire — was there actually fire in the establishment? — - 
 There was. He got the means, some way or other, of igniting the place where the turf 
 was kept. 
 
 2232 J. Was there any damage done to the building? — Oh no ; the fire was discovered 
 in time. 
 
 22330. I observe, Mr. Hone, that in some of the minutes the board appear to have 
 complained of the mode of payment by the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Schools of 
 their pension. I find in Septendjcr, 1842, November, 1843, and December, 184(J, com- 
 plaints are recorded of the non-payment by the Board of Erasmus Smith's Schools of the 
 requisite sum. Have the Board of Erasuius Smith's Schools been in the habit of delaying 
 payment? — Not of late years. At the period to which you refer I believe they were in 
 difficulties, and had no money at their command, but since then 
 
 2233 1 . Since what period ?^0f late years ; on the whole the accounts show fair payments. 
 
 22332. I observe that from 1852 the payments are made with considerable punctuality; 
 that is, the half-yearly account, due in March, was paid in May, and the September account 
 was paid in November, with a few exceptions. Have you furnished the Jlarch account 
 yet •?— No. 
 
 22333. Do you know what the amount of it is ? — No ; I cannot make it up until I write 
 up these books. 
 
 22334. You spoke a while ago about audited accounts that passed between you and the 
 governors ; have these accounts been regularly audited as audited accounts ? — They have. 
 
 22335. Have they been signed by the auditors ? — Yes. 
 2233G. Are you sure for the years 1851 and 1852 ?— Yes. 
 
 22337. Those accounts have been returned to you, but we are under the impression that 
 they are not signed ? — Jly impression is they are signed, but I will look. 
 
 22338. Did you send the Commissioners the audited accounts, or ivhat you consider were 
 audited accounts ? — I did. 
 
 22339. Have you the prior accounts? — I may have duplicates, but not the accounts 
 themselves. 
 
 22340. The persons who audited these accounts were members of the board. Was your 
 attention ever called, or did the Commissioners of the Treasury ever call your attention to 
 the 213th sec. of 3 & 4 Vic, chap. lOS ?— I think not.
 
 158 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DUBLIK. 
 
 Hospital and Free 
 
 School of King 
 
 Charles II., commonhj 
 
 called the 
 Blue Coat Hospital. 
 
 Addison Hone, Esq. 
 
 22341. Has there been an audit by the Commissioners of the Treasury from 184G to the 
 present time ? — They got five years' accounts. 
 
 22342. That was in 1846 ? — There never have been any accounts transmitted to them 
 since. 
 
 22343. "Were they returned from the audit office to the establishment ? — They were not. 
 
 22344. And there has been no audit of any of the accounts from 1846, except the audit 
 of your own accounts by your own board ? — No ; there has not been a transmission of 
 accounts to the audit office since. 
 
 22345. Did the Commissioners send a certificate or a declaration of the accounts being 
 audited ? — No ; I never got a line from them. 
 
 22346. I know from the accounts of other boards, that when they are audited they 
 transmit a certificate stating that the accounts have been closed? — I never had aline from 
 them on the subject. 
 
 22347. We would -wish, Mr. Hone, to see these audited accounts which you say are signed. 
 We were under the impression that some of them were not signed as audited accounts. 
 You shall have them back.
 
 EVIDENCE. 159 
 
 Dublin, April 12tii, 1850. Di^iuw. 
 
 Present — Rev. Dr. Graves, Chairman ; Dr. Anduews, Mr, Hughes, and Dr. Hancock, 
 
 Secretary. 
 
 Pleasants' Asylum. Pleasants' Asylum. 
 
 22.348. Cliairman. — Mr. Dowling, tlio Commissioners have received a memorial addressed 
 to thciii by you, with reference to the afl'airs of Pleasants' Asylum. The Commissioners 
 will communicate to the governors of the asylum the substance of this your memorial, in 
 order that they may offer to us whatever explanations they think fit, touching the matters 
 that you have referred to. 
 
 22349. [Mr. Doiuling. — It would be necessary to see the original will before you could 
 form any opinion, because it was a mere abstract that I forwarded. 
 
 22350. \Vc shall not come to any conclusion upon the matter, without having before us 
 
 all the necessary information The will has been departed from since the foundation of 
 
 the asylum. 
 
 2235 1 . You must be aware, that the present Commissioners have no power of remedying 
 existing abuses ; they can do no more than report upon them, and express their opinion to 
 Her Majesty 1 suppose it lies with the Lord Chancellor ?] 
 
 22352. Or, the legislature ; and as some of the trustees, I am informed, are present, I 
 beg to state that the substance of i\Ir. Bowling's communication will bo set before the 
 governors, so that they may have full opportunity of replying to it ; and if it should be 
 thought necessary to hold a public investigation, the Commissioners will do so. 
 
 Hospital and Free School of King Charles II., cojijionly called The Blue Hnspitai ami Free 
 
 Coat HosPiTAL-(continued). c/,SKp?o«/y 
 
 Addison Hone, Esq., further examined. ^7„g 0,07 HolpUal— 
 
 22353. Mr. Hiujhes. — In Mr. O'Brien's report on the property of the institution, he has continued. 
 ten pages devoted to what is called lapsed property ; that is, property forming no part ■'^'I'l'son Hone, Esq. 
 of the denominations in the recent rentals, or in the recent accounts of casual revenue ? — 
 
 I know what you allude to ; you allude to the tithes of ?ilullingar, and matters of that sort. 
 
 22354. The first item is the vicarage of MuUingar, the tithes of Bniy, containing three lots, 
 the lands of Kilcotty, and premises in New-row, on the Peddle. It states that these lands 
 and premises were the bequest of George Kavanagh, Esq., in 1794, and that they made a 
 lease of the premises in i^ew-row, in 1795, to Mr. Andrew Downey, for sixty-one years, 
 which, of course, would not expire till 1856. The report then goes on to state, that no 
 rent had been received out of these premises since 1820 : — then to observe that it is hardly 
 possible to suppose the solicitor of the hospital would have allowed the govei-nors to 
 make an unconditional lease without reserving to the governors their title to rent as long 
 as it continued. On the 2nd of September, 184G, Mr. O'Brien wrote, through yourself, to 
 the governors: he says: — "I have to acknowledge the receipt of yours of the 3 1st ultimo, 
 enclosing a copy of a resolution of the audit committee of the Governors of the King's 
 Hospital ; and beg leave to return to the committee my most sincere thanks for the favour- 
 able opinion they entertain of the report submitted to their consideration, and for the 
 uniform com'tesy and attention I experienced from its members during the protracted 
 period occupied with preliminary investigations to enable me to prepare the report. It 
 would afford me the greatest gratification should any portion of the lapsed property, which 
 necessarily formed part of the inquiry directed to bo made, be recovered and rendered 
 available to the permanent income of the funds of so valuable an institution." 
 
 22355. Was any thing done on that report ? — There were several meetings between 
 Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Archer, who was then the law agent, but nothing of any value ever 
 resulted from them, that I am aware of. No report of any value, as the result of these 
 meetings, ever came before the board, in respect of what is termed the lapsed propei-ty. 
 
 22356. In other words nothing was ever done by the board ? — There was not ; I think 
 that Mr. O'Brien was disposed to recommend that expense should be incurred, biit there 
 were no funds to risk such expense ; and it was the opinion of Mr. Archer tliat it would 
 have been a very material risk, with very little chance of success. I think it was on that 
 opinion the board acted. 
 
 22357- Did Mr. Archer give that opinion in writing? — I do not think he did; for if he 
 did, it would have been recorded on the minutes. 
 
 22358. Do you, yourself, know any thing of the circumstances connected with the pro- 
 perty in New-row ? — No ; but we had some annuity granted by a Jlrs. '\Yarrcn, out of pro- 
 perty on "VYood-quay, wliich was lost to the hospital some way or other. — It appears from 
 Mr. O'Brien's report that the property was vested, so far as the books of the establishment 
 could show it, in the governors in the year 1750, and the rent was regidarly paid from 
 1750 down to 1826 ; then from 1826 up to 1846, when Mr. O'Brien made his report, no 
 payment had been made, and it does not appear on the minutes that any report had ever 
 been made, or any inquiry instituted respecting it. I do not think there was, but that 
 is a mere matter of recollection. Mr. Archer made inquiry, and 1 have a perfect recollection 
 of Mr. Darley doing so, but there is no entry, I think, upon the books which has reference to it.
 
 160 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COM^HSSION. 
 
 Dublin-. 22359. Mr. O'Brien reported to the board in 1846, that no cause had been assigned in tlie 
 
 books for the rent having ceased to be collected in the year 182G ; and was led to observe that 
 
 ^Sciumlof'^RuT t'l'* ■""^^^ ^^^ instance of ver}' great irregularity in the management of the affairs of the hos- 
 ClmrksII.,commonhj pitah Then from 182i) to 1846 nothing appears on the mniutes in respect of tlic realiza- 
 <^Medthe |Jq,^ qj. looking after that property ? — I do not tliink there does. 1 think the board did 
 
 «e aai osptfa . ^^^^ ^^■ig\^ to incur the risk of losing any money ; but 1 am very certain tliat ]\Ir. O'Jhien h 
 Addison Hone, Esq. ppgoUcction about it is accurate. The" probability is, that he states what occurred between 
 him and Mr. Archer. The only portion of property the governors lost — if I can call it a 
 loss — since my appointment, was a property they held under the Earl of Meath, in New- 
 market. It was a small place, left by a Mrs. Gladden, whicliwas a Hme-yard, and on which 
 she built a sort of a house. They were bound to take out renewals of the lives; and, on 
 application being mad", through I\Ir. Hamilton, to the Earl of Meatli, for a renewal, it was 
 found that heavy fees and arrears of rent would have to be 2)aid ; and the governor.^ came 
 to the resolution that the pren:ises were not worth holding, and gave them up. An eject- 
 ment was threatened to be brought, the board was perfectly satisfied to give them up, hut 
 the solicitor for the Earl of Meath would not take them ; and I, out of a wish for the gover- 
 nors, got a tenant who desired to have this property. He went to Sir. Hamilton, and j)aid 
 up the arrears of rent ; and since tlien he has remained in occujiation. That is the only 
 portion of pro[)erty since my ap])ointment the governors dispossessed themselves of; they 
 did this under the idea it was of no value. 
 
 22360. I find, in reference to Stephen's-green, that Mr. O'Brien, after enumerating two 
 lots of the Stephen's-green property, which were lost to the hospital by lapse of time, 
 reports concerning another lot for which rent was said to have been paid down to 1S29, but 
 all payments had ceased since that : Avas any thing ever done to recover that rent? — I do 
 not recollect tliat there was; but I have no perfect recollection about it. 
 
 22361. This occurred since you were appointed? — I was appointed in 1829, but I have 
 no recollection at present about it. 
 
 22362. The ne.xt important document is a letter of the present solicitors of the board, 
 dated 8th June, 1855. After stating that the Town Clerk had handed to them so manj' of 
 the fee-farm grants, relating to the premises in Stephen's-green and Oxmantown as they 
 required, for the purpose of proceeding to recover the rents largely in arrear, they say — 
 '■ Out of the thirty-seven cases referred to us, it appears, by lapse of time, si.x lots have 
 been lost to the governors. Some of tlie arrears have been paid to the registrar, and in 
 one instance, six and a half-years' rent has been paid to us, and lodged with the registrar. 
 AVe have been in communication with several of the tenants, and although they do not 
 feel disposed to pay the large arrear due (in some in.stances amounting to upwards of 
 seventeen years), still we think they would be induced to pay up six years' arrears," &c. 
 Tliese seventeen years' arrears must have accrued since 1829? — A great many of them. 
 
 22363. What has become of tlmt seventeen years' arrear, do you know? — It is better I 
 should state the cause of the commencement of the arrear, in order to take the blame off 
 my own shoulders. The Corporation of Dublin, when the fee-farm rents were handed over 
 to the hospital, never handed over the original leases. They remained in the muniment 
 room of tlie corporation, and there was no mode of proceeding for these arrears, in the 
 absence of these leases. The board then came to a resolution, having been advised by 
 competent persons, as to what their claims were, to proceed against the corjjoration for 
 the recovery of those leases. The corporation struck, and tliey have since then consented to 
 our getting those fee-farm leases, they taking copies of them. The cause of the arrear was, 
 that tliere was no mode of distress — no mode of proceeding against the parties — for the 
 want of tlie proper documents not being in the hands of our law agent. These arrears 
 were haniled over and over .ngain to Mr. Archer, but he never was able to proceed, nor 
 never did. Some of them were recovered, by means of finding out who the actual owners 
 were, in whicli way the arrears due on Ste])]ien'sgreen were recovered. 
 
 22364. These arrears commenced to accmnulate in 1838? — Some of them long before it. 
 
 22365. From 1838 to 1850 can you state from the minutes of tlie board, or otherwise, 
 what was done ]>y the governors to got po.ssessiou of the leases of the fee-farm grants ? 
 — 1 am not prepared to say that there ever were very active means taken within that 
 period of time : nor do I think there were active means taken, because, if there had, it 
 would appear on the minutes, in the same way, as the otlicr proceedings have. The matter 
 was not very sti-ongly urged on them by Mr. Arclier. 
 
 22360. But, as a matter of fact, nothing was done in respect of getting the fee-farm 
 grants, from 1838 to the month of .lanuary, 1855 ? — I think there was not. If there was, 
 it wonhl .■ip[»ear on the minutes. Tlie matter was merely talked of. but there never were 
 jirompt measures taken. 
 
 22367. Do you know. Air. Hone, was any survey nvide of the mearings of these different 
 building lots in the city of Dublin?— Oh, yes, there was. 
 
 22368. Wlien ? — There was a survey about twenty-two years ago. 
 
 22369. It must be more'? — Twenty-four years ago there was a survey by a Mr. O'Byrnc ; 
 and on a late occa.'<ion there was a reference made to his maps for the purpose of the law 
 agent proceoding for some of these arrears ; but great dilliciilty was experienced, in making 
 out tlie i)iiildings, in consequence of tlu; cliange in the numliers. 
 
 22370. Am 1 to understand that, i'rom 18.'53, or 1834, down to 1S5G, there has been no 
 survey ? — No. 
 
 22371. lIi)on tlie 19th of March, iK.Vi, 1 find th.at the law agents of the board wrote as 
 follows : — " Mr. I'.yrnc called upon us the day before yesterday, and also to-day, and ho
 
 EVIDENCE. 161 
 
 states, lie will bo alilo to point out tlio two premises we wish to distrain, although the Uubuh. 
 nuniber.s are did'orciit from those ailixeil to the maps made hy hiin some years back. . 
 
 ri^i 111 i. I'll' 1^ 11 ■ 1' i • • 1 ,1 • I ilCKnitiil and rfCt- 
 
 ilicrc woulil be great dilliculty and dan,i.fer m distrammg, iiiilt'ss the prennses can be s'liaoi of Kim, 
 
 identifit'd, as ill cvc^ry instance the numbers of the houses liavc been changed. It would Chnrlr^ll.'.rominnnly 
 
 add much to the value of tiie maps already made, that Mr. Byrne should be directed to „, ™/'''' '/"^ . 
 
 make an insT)ection of the hospital proitorty, and where change of numbers has taken place, . ,'" "" '"''"" ' 
 .1,11,1. , , i' 1 ii i 1 1 1 1 /• 1 Aaili.'-on Hone, Ksii. 
 
 that no should note such change on tne maps; also, tliat he should, so far as he can a.scer- 
 
 tain, mark the present owners. Plense get an order to sign siicJi distraining warrants as 
 
 may he necessary." ITpon that suggestion of Mr. Byrne's, communicated tliroui;Ii the law 
 
 agents, what was done by the board ? — The hoard certified that document, and I wrote to 
 
 Mr. Byrne, wlio has not been in town some time back, to request him to i'urnish tlio committee 
 
 with tlie cost of making out new maps, in case they were necessary ; but that the board 
 
 considered it was possible new maps would not bo required ; as the rc-numhering of 
 
 the houses would be quite suflicient. We received no answer from Mr. Byrne vet ; but 1 
 
 understand lie is out of town, and tliat is tiie only reason I can assign for liis not doing so. 
 
 1 tliink, in all probability, there will be an answer by the time the committee ne.\t meets. 
 
 As to the amount of the expense, of course the matter will not be undertaken by the board 
 
 without knowing what the cost will be. That is the state in which the matter remains at 
 
 present. 
 
 '22372. In respect of O.xmantown-grcen, Mr. O'Brien's report extended to no less than 
 
 three pages upon tliat lapsed property ; has any portion of it been recovered ? — A good 
 
 deal of tlie lots the law agents speak of as being lost belong to Oxmantown-greeii. They 
 
 do not, in i'act, refer to the Stcphen's-grc.'en portion at all. 
 
 22373. What 1 ask is this: has any portion of the Stephen's-green property been 
 recovered since 184G, that was then lapsed? — The sum produced is paid by instalments; 
 they are all fee-farm rents; there are many pound lots; and when they talk of seven pro- 
 perties being lost, they are value for £7. 
 
 22374. Some of the lots are two jiounds a-year? — I do not think there are many of them 
 two pounds ayear. 
 
 "22375. Have any steps been taken by the board, from 1846 down to the present time, 
 in respect of the Oxinantown-green lots ? — There have been great efforts made to recover 
 them, and the arr^jars would have been very considerable, but that there were active measures 
 taken. 
 
 22376. Is there any minute of the board in reference to any proceedings? — I should 
 think there are minutes I'rom time to time directing the law agent to proceed; but there 
 is no regular report from Mr. Archer that I am aware of, with reference to these arrears. 
 
 22377. That is what I want; is there any report from Mr. Archer, or minute of the 
 board, in reference to the arrears on the Oxmantown-green property ?— No ; Mr. Archer 
 was very much in the habit of attending the board personally, and that miglit be the 
 reason ; but it is the only reason I can assign for his reports not being found in writing. 
 
 22378. When was ilr. Archer removed as law agent? — He died. 
 
 22379. When did he die? — I suppose, six or seven years ago. After Mr. Archer's 
 death, Jlr. Tindall was appointed. 
 
 22380. Did Mr. Tindall ever do any thing with respect to the Oxmantown-green pro- 
 perty ? — He did not. 
 
 22 381. How long did he continue as law agent? — He continued two or three years, 
 when he resigned. 
 
 22382. And then the present solicitors were appointed ? — Yes. 
 
 22383. 1 will now go to the Dean's Orchard property — that was held under the see of 
 Dublin? — It was held under the Dean and Chapter of Christ's Church, and the renewal 
 line paid in respect of it was £23 5s. 
 
 22384. It appears not to have been paid for a great many years; what was the cause of 
 that ? — There was no demand ma;le for it. It remained so until there was about to be an 
 alteration in the property, and then it was necessary to pay the renewal fines before the 
 governors could make new leases. 
 
 22385. Is it not usual, from your own experience, to pay the renewal fines annually ? — 
 I do not know ; it may be so, but in this ca.se it was not paid. 
 
 22386. The fine is £23 a-year, and its not having been paid entailed upon the governors 
 the payment in 1S55 of £337 Is. "nl. — One of the reasons for withholding pavment was. 
 that the governors were exceedingly hard pressed for means. They had no means at their 
 command, and were not able to discharge their liabilities as they have done these some 
 few years back, during which time their condition is better. They are now in the posses- 
 sion of means, and in good credit : but at the time you speak of, it would have been diffi- 
 cult for them to command £200 or £:500. There never was any demand from the Eccle- 
 siastical Board about these fines. 
 
 22387. There never is ; the landlord is bettm- pleased to allow them to accumulate. — I 
 am perfectly certain the board did not pay, until the time you see recorded. 
 
 22388. Has the perpetuity been obtained from the Ecclesiastical Commissioners ? — It has. 
 
 22389. When was it obtained ? — The Ecclesiastical 15oard was paid a year ago, and an 
 order made that they should not accumulate again. 
 
 22390. By the board minutes of the 26th December, 1854, it is resolved — '■ That the 
 renewal of the lease of Dean's Orchard bo taken out, not the perpetuity, and that the 
 committee be empowered to draw on the Bank of Ireland for the arrears of fine due 
 
 Vol. II. Y
 
 IC2 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Hospital and Fft'c 
 
 JSchitol of Kiiu] 
 
 Charles II., commonlij 
 
 culled the 
 Blue Coat Uospitiil. 
 
 Addison Houe, Esq. 
 
 J. E. Hyndman, Esq. 
 
 thereon, and the costs of the renewal; and, henceforward, the renewal fine be paid 
 annually." I find the letter of the law agents to the board as follows : — 
 
 " Office, b, Foster-place, 13th February, 1855. 
 "Dear Sir, — At the other side we send you particulars of the sum of £.337 Is. lOt/., 
 demanded by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland, for the renewal of the lease of 
 the lands of Dean Orchard. 
 
 " Tours faithfully, 
 
 " Hone and Kinahan. 
 " A. Hone, Esq., Blackhall-place." 
 
 2239 1 • So it was a renewal, and not a perpetuity, which was taken out ? — It was a 
 renewal. The committee to whom it was referred, went into a calculation, and they came 
 to the conclusion it was not advisable to take out the perpetuity. 
 
 22392. Do you know what the difference to the hospital would have been, if the renewal 
 fines had been paid annually ? — I do not. 
 
 22303. In that transaction alone the hospital lost £ 130, by not paying the fines. — It was 
 a very serious loss ; but as I stated before, the hospital was very much crippled for means 
 at that time. 
 
 22394. Did they not, during that interval, pay Mr. O'Brien £400 out of funded property? 
 
 22395. Chairman. — Was any house property of the hospital ever taken possession of 
 by the Wide Street Commissioners? — Yes; there was a portion of their property at one 
 time taken in the widening of Grafton-street, for which there was an allowance made. 
 There was another portion taken when they were making arrangements about the Lunatic 
 Asylum in Grangegorman-lane. It was taken under the valuation of a jury. 
 
 22396. How were the sums paid to the governors appUed — were they funded ?— They 
 were not, but put into the bank. 
 
 22397. Were they applied to the current expenses of the institution ? — Yes. 
 
 22398. Was the question as to the mode of applying that capital considered by the 
 governors ? —I do not tliink it ever was considered. 
 
 22399. Was the question ever brought before the board — you arc registrar, attend all 
 the meetings of the board, and ought to be able to state distinctly whether it ever was 
 discussed at the board? — There was no discussion on it at the board. The money was 
 reported as having been received, and that is all. 
 
 22400. What was the amount of it ? — 1 do not recollect. 
 
 22401. Mr. Hughes. — Can you state the amount in round numbers? — It is all in my 
 books. I do not guess at sums when I have the means of telling accurately. The sum 
 was small — under £200, I think. 
 
 22402. The charter contains this paragraph: — "Nevertheless our royal pleasure, intent, 
 and meaning is, that the said governors or their successors shall not do, or suffer to be 
 done, at any time hereafter, any act or thing, whereby any of the lands, tenements, or 
 hereditaments, or the estate whicli shall belong to the said corpoi'ation, shall be conveyed, 
 alienated, or transferred to any other use whatsoever, than to the uses of the said hospital 
 or free school." — That clause was not brought under the consideration of the governors at 
 the tmie. 
 
 22403. Mr. Mallet appears to have been quite aware, or to have some decided opinion 
 that it was illegal to diminish in any way the funded or vested property of the governors. 
 — His letter was to that effect. 
 
 John E. Hyndman, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 22404. Chairman. — You are one of the governors of the Blue Coat Hospital? — Yes. 
 
 22405. How long have you held the office of governor? — Since the 13th of December, 
 1834. 
 
 22406. Have you been constantly present at the meetings of the board ? — I cannot say 
 I have been constantly present. 
 
 22407. You have been very generally present? — I have been frequently. 
 
 22408. Are you a member of any of tlie committees? — I believe 1 am at present a 
 member of one committee. 
 
 22409. Mr. Hughes. — That is the committee of accounts? — The house committee. 
 
 22410. I find your name more frequently than tliat of any other gentleman as an attendant 
 on the board. You have heard tlic evidence given by tiie registrar respecting the difiercnt 
 matters bearing on the general administration of the hospital, are tliere any points that 
 have been referred to by the Commissioners, or liy tlie registrar, on which you would wish 
 to offer any e.\])l:ination or further information? — I have only heard part of his evidence, 
 but I do not think I can offer any additional observations. I do not exactly agree witii 
 the registrar as to the cause of tlic employment of Mr. O'Brien ; I think Mr. O'Brien was 
 employed with the view of collecting and arranging the muniments, and with tlie view of 
 seeing whether some property might not liave been recovered for the institution, which I 
 think was alleged to have been lost near Noddstown. Mr. Mallet suggested the employ- 
 ment of Mr. O'Brien. 
 
 2241 1. Was the employment of Mr. O'Brien in any way caused, in your opinion, by the 
 then existing state of the accounts ? — 1 dare say it was, jiartly. 
 
 22 U 2. It was judged necessary by the governors to call in the assistance of a professional 
 accountant for a double purpose — first, to make out such a correct rental and statement of
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 1G3 
 
 the whole pi-operty of the institution as would enable tlio governors to see what ought to 
 ho the sources of tlieir revenue; and also, as 1 understand, to put the five years' accounts, 
 which were then in arrear, into such a state as to pass the Government audit? — 1 believe 
 these were the ol)jects. 
 
 22413. Mr. Hyndman. I will road two minutes from your own board, which will pro- 
 bably recall to your mind the circumstances under which Mr. O'Jiiieu was app(jiiited, and 
 I think it more accords witli what the registrar has stated than wiiat you now have stated. 
 This minute is dated ISth November, 1844 : — ' Kesolved, that Mr. l'eniiefather"s letter be 
 referred to the committee of accounts, with a request from this board that they may have 
 the accounts audited without delay, postponing other business ; and that if necessarv they 
 be empowered to call in an accountant to tlieir assistance." This is the proceeding of the 
 committee, dated Sth December, 1844. I find tiiatMr. Kawlinson's letter, of May 1 7th, and 
 also Mr. Tennefather's, of October, 1844, requiring the transmission of the accounts, having 
 been respectively read, Mr. O'Brien, in answer to a question from the committee, stated 
 that the sum usually paid him for Ids attendance was half a guinea an hour. I then find 
 he was appointed accountant to draw out the accounts, and all the minutes have reference 
 only to his appointment as accountant? — Of course, the minutes must represent what 
 occurred at the time, but 1 had been under the impression we had a double object in 
 emy)loying Jlr. O'lirien, one of which was to trace out some property near IVoddstown. 
 
 22414. Mr. Pennefather's letter dated 11th of October, 1844, indicates distinctly what 
 the object was. Mr. Pennefather says : — " His Excellency desires me to call your attention 
 to the points of omission adverted to on the other side by the Audit Commissioners, in 
 the accoimts already sultmitted to them." The remarks of the Commissioners of Audit are 
 — " The accounts should bear the original signatures of the treasurer and three auditors. 
 The certificates of the auditors should be in original." 
 
 22415. Chairman. — Mr. Ilyndman, the return sent in by the registrar states that the 
 net annual income of the King's Hospital for the year 1853 was £2,134, and the same 
 return states that the number of boys educated in the institution is seventy. Does it not 
 appear to you that the cost of educating these boys is disproportionate to the nature of the 
 education which they receive, and the situation in life w hicli they are intended to fill ? — I 
 do not think so. 
 
 22416. Do you not think that so large an endowment might educate a greater number 
 of boys in even a superior way ? — I am not able to answer that question. 
 
 22417. Have the governors considered this question as a financial one, and instituted 
 a comparison of the expenses of the Hospital with the expenses of other institutions. 
 Have they gone into the question in such a way as to be able to state what is a fair average 
 sum to set down for the education of boys of the rank of life usually admitted into the 
 hospital? — I am not aware they have done so formally as a board, but I am sure as individual 
 members they have frequently considered the subject. I am quite aware that the school 
 is capable of containing a great many more boys than are in it at present ; and that if more 
 were in it the expenditure woidd be much reduced, for the same stalY would educate forty 
 or fifty more boys than are in it at present. 
 
 22418. The registrar was asked whether he was aware of the question having been enter- 
 tained of admitting day-scholars to partake of the benefits of the institution, and he stated 
 that he was not aware that such a question had ever been discussed. Do you remember any 
 discussion in reference to it? — I do not think it was discussed formally at the board, but I 
 have no doubt it was discussed at the committee. One of the members of the committee. 
 Dr. Harty, was a very grf>at advocate for opening the school of the hospital more generally 
 to the public, and I think it was chiefly at his instigation the plan was adopted by the 
 governors of putting in boys until vacancies occurred, on payment of a certain sum of 
 money; but. as was stated yesterday, they were obliged to give that plan up, in consequence 
 of its being vSergeant Greene's opinion that it would take the hospital out of the category 
 of charitable institutions. I am quite sure the subject of day-scholars was discussed at the 
 committee, but no formal minute, 1 think, was ever made. Dr. Harty was very zealous for 
 extending the advantages of the institution. 
 
 22419. What have been the general views of the governors respecting the nature of 
 the education to he provided in the institution ? — I think they are quite satisfied with 
 the present education afforded in the hospital, which is a most excellent one — with the 
 exception that classics are not tauglit. I do not believe there is any institution where you 
 would get a better English education than in the Blue Coat Hos^sital. 
 
 22420. The object of my question was to ascertain from you, with what view was the 
 course of education prescribed ? — To fit the pupils for various situations in life, such as 
 schoolmasters and clerks, to fit them for mercantile life, and also for sea life, and, in fact, to 
 enable a boy to push his way in the world, in any position almost. With the exception that 
 the boys do not learn classics, there are no boys who get a better education in English ; and 
 the result has been, that some of the most eminent citizens of Dublin have been educated in 
 the Blue Coat Hospital. 
 
 " 22421. The question of introducing classics, or, at all events, Latin into the school course, 
 wus brought before the governors on the occasion, if I am not mistaken, of the report of one 
 of the examiners employed to examine the boys, being read or discussed. Perhaps you 
 may remember the views of the governors with regard to the question, and the reasons 
 which induced them to decline acceding to that recommendation ? — I should say that it 
 was the want of means. 
 
 Vol. 11. Y 2 
 
 DUBLIK. 
 
 Ilosjiital anri Free 
 
 School of Kiuff 
 ( Itarlfs II. , comittonly 
 
 tnllid Ihe 
 liluc ('out Hon/ntat. 
 
 .1. E. Uvniiman, Esq.
 
 1(54 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 J->iiii.iN. 22422. Was it a fcav that the introduction of classical instruction would withdraw the 
 
 , pupils from commercial pursuits, or interfere with tlie commercial course of instruc- 
 
 Hi^iHtnlaM free ^j „ 9 — I cannot sav what views the other ffovernors entertained on the suhiect : hut for 
 
 hcnuul of Ann; i . t ...... , , . « ° . , ., . t i i i • i 
 
 Charles /I.', cuiiimonhi mysclt, I am 01 opnuou It would not interfere with mercantile pursuits. 1 think a classical 
 
 called the education is as necessary for a mercantile man as it is for any otlicr person, and that there 
 
 ue rial o>.pi^ . j^ ^^^ situation in life in which a good education will not bear its fruits. 
 
 .. J. Mil mail... sq. 2242 i. Then you think, regarding it merely as a system of commercial training, that 
 
 it would be improved by the introduction of classical instruction ? — 1 do think that a boy's 
 
 education would be improved by giving classical in addition to plain education. 
 
 22424. Do you not think, that, if classics were jiart of tiie school course, most of the 
 admissions would be given to persons of a higher rank in life, whose parents intended them 
 to enter the University: and tiiat then the school might not be as valuable as it ought for 
 the purpose of bringing forward in life tlie children of parents in more humble circumstances? 
 — I am not aware what might be the eft'ect of it ; I know for myself, in any patronage I have 
 had, I always exercised it m favour of the most needy, and the most deserving. 1 have never 
 put in any person whom you may call of a superior rank in life. I have always endeavoured 
 to exercise my patronage by giving it to the boys of humble parents, of respectable 
 character. 
 
 22425- Then if the terms of the charter were strictly complied with, and that poor chil- 
 dren were alone to be admitted, you would be in favour of extending the course of instruc- 
 tion by the addition of cla.ssics ? — ^I am an advocate for the education of all classes, and I 
 Vr'ould extend its benefits to the most humble. 
 
 2242G. But would you also be in favour of teaching the modern languages '? — Do you 
 mean French and German. 
 
 22427. At least French"? — If the means of the institution admitted of the introduction 
 of modern languages, it would bo desirable. 
 
 22428. Do you tliink it would be desirable with reference to the wants of persons 
 Intended for commercial life ? — Decidedly ; the demand for classical education has very 
 greatly increased, and I should say it would be a decided improvement, even to those whose 
 object would be to enter into a mercantile office, to have a knowledge of the modern lan- 
 guages. 
 
 22429. Are you aware tliat a very considerable part of the linen trade — the great staple 
 trade of Ireland — is carried on by German houses in Belfast ? — I believe there is a consi- 
 derable portion of it, and also that these houses prevail in Manchester ; I tliink that the 
 German and French languages would be desirable for young men. 
 
 22430. In a banker's ofiice is it not also necessary to have a knowledge of the modern 
 languages ? — No doubt it is. 
 
 22431. The introduction of .such a course as 1 have stated into the hospital, would, in 
 your opinion, be desirable, and the only obstacle in the way of it at present would be 
 the want of sufHcicnt funds? — I thhik so; I think that the German and French languages 
 M'ould be perhaps more useful than the dead languages. 
 
 22432. In a memorial of the governors, addressed to the present trustees, the Arch- 
 bishop, the Lord Chancellor, and Bishop of Meath, it is stated that the pupils of the school 
 were brouglit up witli the view of being qualified for tlie situations of merchants, traders, 
 engineers, &c., &c. ; with respect to their education as engineers, would it not be desirable that 
 chemistry and the natural sciences should be also taught in the school ':' — 1 think it viould 
 be desirable. Generally speaking, I am satisfied tliat the discipline maintained in the school 
 is good, as far as my personal knowledge goes ; I believe it has two most vigilant masters, 
 and we have a man specially to superintend the conduct of the boys outside the school, 
 and I believe the boys are well conducted : 1 have never heard any complaint or any inju- 
 rious cliaracter of tlie boys. 
 
 22433. Is provision made by the governors for the boys' recreation ? — I believe so. 
 
 22434. Have tliey a good spacious play ground ?— They have a large, spacious play 
 ground, and the man to whom 1 referred, gives them a sort of military training. 
 
 22435. In the minutes of the board, 1 saw, from time to time, notices of elopements of 
 the scholars, — what ai)|)eared generally to have been tlie cause of these elopements? 
 — I cannot say from personal knowledge ; I am not awan; that any boy has eloped for 
 years. 
 
 22436. 1 think the notices to which I refer are dated some years back, — I mean to say 
 ten or twelve ytars ago ? — 1 have no distinct recollection now of the cause of these elope- 
 ments, but I dare say it appears on the minutes. 
 
 22437. The cause of the elopements does not ajipear on the minutes that came before 
 me'/ — f cannot speak at ])resent from jiersoual recollection, Imt the elopements were very 
 rare ; and I am sure the lioys are well attended to, both in tlie j-choid and out of the school, 
 and liavc been Icept and maintained in a manner, as far as jiossible, to conduce to their 
 health and good conduct. 
 
 22438. Wh(;n 1 visitcnl the institution the master stated tliat the health of the boys was 
 generally very good, which he ascribed, amongst other causes, to their having so spacious 
 and airy a schoolroom; notwithstanding, I notictid yesterday, that tlie exjien.ses of tiie 
 medical department of the establishment are rather lieavy. Does it not ajipear to you that 
 the (^\'iienditure in payment of salaries to nurses, and to a ])liysician and surgeon, and of 
 ajiothecary's bills, has been rather large, considering that the health of the Ijoys has been 
 usually good, on the wliolc"::' — I cannot speak as to the apothecary's bills, but the payment
 
 EVIDENCE. !''•'> 
 
 to t!)0 pliysiciim has been cxcecdiiif^ly inoJerato, lie only got i'30 a-ycar ; and Dr. Kead, ])uumn. 
 
 who now acts as physician and surgeon, is only paid thirty guineas a-year. /jus/iiial mul l-'rcf 
 
 224159. Mr. Hughes.— £r)Q. Sr.hmjufKniy 
 
 22440. Chairman.— \n l!-53 the hill i)aid to the apothecary amounted to £SG 11.?. 3r/. ; ' '"" '^X/ iT"""' " 
 
 and since then. 1 believe in the Jlarch of this year, another hill of £71 1()«. hd. has been y^/„(, o,„, /joxpiial. 
 
 paid ; those are rather large items under this head ? — 1 think not, for the number of boys ; j ^ iiyminvui. Ivfii. 
 
 1 hav(? wry often paid £25 and £30 a-year to my own apothecary. 
 2244 1. Would that include attendances?— No. 
 
 22442. Tiion these boys in the Blue Coat Hospital arc very healthy? — AVell, if you take 
 a family of six oi- seven costing £25 a year, and seventy or a hundred costing £70 a year, 
 1 think the dis])roportion is not great. 1 am quite satisfied that every thing which can pos- 
 sibly conduce to the health of the boys is adopted by tlic governors; as a proof of tliat 
 fact, it is only lately we had before us estimates for ventilating and heating the dormitories 
 and schoolroom, and also the dining-room. 
 
 22443. These improvements have been taken into consideration in consct^ucnce of the 
 recommendation of the medical ofliccr? — 1 believe so. 
 
 22444. When did the medical officer report upon the need of ventilating and heating the 
 dormitories? — I cannot say from recollaction, but it is on the minutes of the committee. 
 
 22445. Was this report made recently, or within the last year or two? — The surgeon 
 happens to be a member of the committee, and frequently rejiorts verbally ; and also a 
 Avritten report, 1 believe, is sent in. I am now reminded by IMr. Le Pan, that the question 
 of ventilating the dormitories and schoolroom has been under discussion for some years 
 past ; but the heating of the rooms was, I think, a suggestion made by Jlr. Keadlast year, 
 and has been since adopted. 
 
 22446. Is the dietary of the boys also superintended and rci)ort<d upon by the medical 
 officer ■? — Yes. 
 
 22447. I asked the registrar, but he was not able to state exactly, what was the supposed 
 cost of clothing the boys; is their dress more expensive than an ordinary dress? — I am not 
 aware that it is; their conunon dress — the corduroy — is very cheap, but the old distinctive 
 dress, which has been kept up for many years, I am not able to state whether it is more 
 expensive than the ordinary dress, possibly the accounts will tell. 
 
 22448. 1 noticed in the minutes a motion with reference to the alteration of that dross 
 bi-ought before the governors ; 1 believe I am right in saying that the motion was rejected? 
 —Yes. 
 
 22449. Or, I believe, not being seconded, it fell to the ground? — It fell to the ground 
 through irregularity in the summoning of the governors, as well as 1 recollect ; I think it 
 happened that one of the committee was absent, or out of the room, at the time the reso- 
 lution was adopted: there were only two ])rcscnt when it passed, and there ought to have 
 been at least three, and therefore the board was considered illegally called, and the question 
 could not be put. 
 
 22450. Was the question afterwards brought before the board? — I think not; the new 
 clothes were absolutely ordered at the time. 
 
 22451. AVhat is your own opinion as to the propriety of maintaining this antiquated 
 dress ? — I am in favour of it. 
 
 22452. On what grounds? — I like to keep up the old character of the institution : and if 
 it came to a vote, 1 would vote against the resolution, and will whenever it is brought 
 forward. I do not see why we should alter the dress, when a similar institution in London 
 preserves this old distinctive dress; 1 think it brings with it recollections which it is 
 desirable to keep up. 
 
 22453. Do you not think it exposes the boys to cold in winter ? — 1 do not a])prehcnd it 
 does. They have fine, thick, warm stockings, and this dress is only worn on Sundays; it is 
 not worn every day. 
 
 22454. If it did expose them to cold, the danger would be greater if it were only worn one 
 day in the week ; but I merely asked your opinion, whether you considered it exposed 
 them to cold ? — I think not. They have got very strong, warm, long stockings. I am sure 
 they are better clad than boys in a similar rank of life out of the institution, and warmer. 
 
 22455. Are you aware whether the boys have ever been exposed to injury or insult when 
 they ajjpearcd in public in this dress ? — 1 have heard so, but I am not aware personally. 
 
 22456. But you have heard it stated ? — The same thing will occur to the boys of Christ 
 Church, London. There are several boys in Christ's Church belonging to Dublin, and 
 when they come over, they attract more attention than our own Blue Coat boys, from their 
 peculiar dress. 
 
 22457- I suppose you have no means of judging whether the boys themselves like the 
 dress ? — So far as I know, I think they like the dress, and are proud of it. 
 
 22458. 1 ask this question, because in inquiring into the affairs of a similar institution 
 elsewhere, I put the question to the children, whether they liked the dress, the particular 
 livery that they wore, and. with a single exception, every child in the school informed me 
 that they did not like the dress ? — I know the boys are very proud of their dress. 
 
 22459. Mr. Hm/hes. — They take pride in the "ribbons, l" suppose ? — They go to great 
 expense to collect a bunch of ribbons. 
 
 22460. But have they not dropped the ribbons lately ? — I am not aware. 
 
 22461. Mr. Hyndman, the clothing account for the year 1852 was, £392 9s. »id., which 
 is a very close approximation to £4 per boy ? — Probably that includes two suits.
 
 166 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 .DtruLiN-. 
 
 Hospital and Frtc 
 
 Srhool of King 
 
 Charles II., rommonli/ 
 
 railed the 
 Blue Coat Hospital. 
 
 J. E. Ilyndman. E?(i. 
 
 22462. Yes; it includes \'>s. (Jd. a boy for corduroy, and 'iQs. Gd. for blue? — The blue 
 clothes last two years ; the corduroy they wear every day. That estimate also includes 
 repairs to a small amount. Well, 1 do not think you can say it is unreasonable. 
 
 22463. I am not offering any opinion, but stating the fact, that the gross amount of the 
 clothing for 1852 was, £392 9«. S^d. for ninety-sLx boys; a suit of corduroy at IPs. 6d. 
 with shoes and stockings, and a suit of blue at 30s. 6d. ? — I do not think that is unreason- 
 able, considering the quality of cloth they get. I beheve we get from our contractor the 
 clothing on as reasonai)le terms as any other institution. The contracts are all advertised. 
 
 22464. There are two or three questions to which I would wish to direct your attention. 
 I believe you heard some questions put to Mr. Hone yesterday, which I will now repeat for 
 j'ou. — 1 he income of the lands of Noddstown was reported by the Commissioners of 1807 to 
 be, in the year 1808, i! 1,459 7s. ; and to account for this income they append to the end of 
 their report the following explanatory note : — " In the month of May, 1807, the governors of 
 the hospital received an increase to their income, by the expiration of a lease of lands in 
 the county of Tipperary, amounting annually to the sum of £931 10s. ;" which shows they 
 had the property then let at £549. In 1820 those lands were let at £997a-year; and I find, 
 upon looking over the registrar's accounts, and the accounts of the agent, that in the year 
 1850 no sum whatever was received from the lands of Noddstown; that in 1851 the 
 hospital received only £ 190 ; in the year 1852, the sum of £313 ; and in 18.:3, £446. Can 
 you account for this dimiimrion of income ? — AVe are all quite aware that from 1846 down 
 to 1849 the countrv was in a very distressed state. 
 
 22465. I have not taken these years. I have commenced at 1850, when there was 
 nothing received; in 1851, £190; and 1852, £313 ; and 1853, £446 ; which sums added 
 together make less for five years, than the income was for the one year of 1808 ? — I can- 
 not account for that, e.xcept hy the unwillingness of the tenants to pay, and in some instances 
 their inability. I know that a deputation from the governors went down to inquire into 
 the state of these lands. 
 
 22466. [Mr. Mallet. — It was about ten years ago the deputation went down. 
 
 22467. In 1848?— I believe it was.] 
 
 22468. Mr. Hyndman, have you yourself made any inquiries with reference to this 
 diminution of income? — No ; but we have had the agent bolore us frequently, and letters 
 read by Mr. Hone on the subject have constantly occupied our attention ; and every thing 
 that was possible was done to rectify the state of things to which you refer. 
 
 22469. Do you know has any change taken place in the acreable quantities between 
 1 808 and 1855 '? — I could not personally state any thing with reference to the quantities or 
 rentals. 
 
 22470. Have you formed a member of any committee who inquired into this subject? — 
 Well, I cannot say from recollection, but I presume I have been. 
 
 22471. Were you on the deputation that Mr, Mallet spoke of ?^No : I do not think any 
 committee was formed to inquire into the diminution of the quantity of land. 
 
 22472. These figures I have given you, as received between 1849 and 1855, are taken 
 from the registrar's audited accounts. They amount to the sum of i947 "is., the receipt 
 for five years, whereas the income was reported in 1808 to have been i'1,400 ? — I cannot 
 give you any explanation of it. 
 
 F. W. Bradr, Esq. 
 
 Francis William Brady, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 22473. Chairman. — How long have you been one of the Governors of the King's Hos- 
 pital ? — Since the year 1850 or 1851. 
 
 22474. Mr. Iliujltes. — You signed the first audited account in 1851. 
 
 22475. Chairman. — Are you a member of the general committee ?— Yes. 
 
 22476. Is there any point which has been touched upon by tiic registrar in his examina- 
 tion before the Commissioners, upon which you would wish to oiler any explanation or 
 additional information ? — Most of the topics on which he was examined related to matters 
 which occurred i)efore I became a governor of the institution ; and with regard to the 
 matters on which he was examined subsequent to my a]ipointmcnt, I am not aw;M-e that he 
 has stated any matter incorrectly, so far as my knowledge extends. 
 
 22477. I addressed a question to Mr. Hyndman bearing on the general administration of 
 the funds of the hospital, asking him, whether ho thought a net income of £2,134 might 
 not be so applied as to furnish good instruction to more than seventy boys. Is it your 
 opinion that greater results might be expected from the expenditure of so large a sum for 
 educational purposes ? — Most decidedly it is. 
 
 22478. You have available that net income, and you also have a very large establishment, 
 the building of which cost £21,000, rent free, you have house accommodation for 130 
 
 boys 
 
 22479. Mr. Hughes. — The presont net receipts are £2,352 Is. Id. as appears by the last 
 
 account. 
 
 22480. Chairman. — In what way do you think it possible to make these resources more 
 available for the purposes of education? — I think a large portion of the funds of the 
 hospital is expended on the staff employed in the mnnngement of it, which if it was lessened, 
 would of course leave a much larger sum available i'wr the su])])ort and education of the boys. 
 
 224K1. A similar complaint was made respecting the managen^f^nt of the institution in 
 the report of the Commissioners of Municipal Corporations. It is'therc stated, as well as
 
 EVIDENCE. 1G7 
 
 1 remember, that the staff of the hospital cost annually about 1900 in salaries and wages. ijunns. 
 Do you know the expenditure at present upon these heads. . 
 
 22482. Mr. Jlur/hes I'he salaries and wages are at present £816 10s. 8d. sThtlo/Kh,^" 
 
 22483. Chairman. — Tlien the salaries and wages are more than one-third of the whole CharUxll.. ewiMuniy 
 
 net receipts. Do you think that is a disproportionate o.xpenditure on the working staff? „. <-^}^<"l '■''<' . 
 
 — I do; I tliinli. the establislunent might be worked with a considerably smaller exi)cnditure „ "'' '"" , "IJ!' 
 • i.1 r 1 ■ ^ !•. W. Brsulv. Esq. 
 
 ni tlio way ot salaries. ■ ^ 
 
 22484. Was not some reduction made in the salaries of the officers by a consolidation of 
 the offices of cliaplain and master ? — Certainly there was. ■' 
 
 22185. And has tliere not been recently a consolidation of tlio offices of physician and 
 surgeon ? — Yes. 
 
 224SG. In what way do you tliink that furtlicr retrencliment could be made without 
 diminisliing the efficiency of the institution? — 1 am not j)repared to say that it would be 
 in the power of tlie governors to elfect any retrencliment at present, witliout acting unjustly 
 towards individuals, which I should be sorry they would do ; but if it were jiroposed to 
 remodel the institution, so as to increase its efficiency, I conceive it might be done with a 
 smaller expenditure for salaries, a reduction which I would suggest. So far as my experience 
 of the working of the institution goes, I am of opinion that the proper head of the institution 
 should be the master — the master should be responsible for the education of tiie boys and 
 the general management of the institution. The office at present filled by J\Ir. Hone is an 
 office wliich absorbs far too large a portion of the income of the institution for the purposes 
 required; and I conceive that the duty of collecting the rents, and the general superinten- 
 dence of the institution, miglit be discharged efficiently for a much smaller sum than he 
 receives. 
 
 22487. The evils arising from divided responsibility must be less under the arrangement 
 now, wlien there is a registrar and a master, than formerly, when there was a chaplain, 
 registrar, and master? — ^"o doubt. 
 
 22t88. Do you tliink that any evils do at present arise from this division of responsi- 
 bility ? — I am not prepared to say that any positive evil arises from it, but I conceive 
 that the institution might be worked as well at a less expense. 
 
 22489- Is the general control of the institution at present in the hands of the registrar? 
 — Practically I believe it is so. 
 
 22490. Have you formed any opinion upon the question which was raised with regard to 
 the admission of day pupils to tJie privileges and benefits of the institution? — I have not ; 
 the question has not been formally discussed since I became a governor. 
 
 22491. With regard to the nature of the course of instruction given, do j'ou think it 
 ought to be expressly limited, so as to be only of use to those who are preparing for com- 
 mercial life ; or ought it to be of such a nature as to fit a hoy, if his parents desire it, to 
 enter on other pursuits? — Without giving a very decided opinion upon the question, the 
 leaning of my opinion is, that, considering the eleemosynary character of the institution, 
 and the class of life from which the pupils who are educated in it usually come, it is more 
 advisable to continue it as it is at present, a school giving education to persons intended to fill 
 a not very indopendent position afterwards, than to lead pupils, by giving them an education 
 which fits them for collegiate studies, into a position in life which they would not have 
 the means of supporting. In sonic cases they might l)e able to support themselves by 
 their own talent, but in the majority of instances, I think it would be advisable to continue 
 the education as it is at present. 1 would make the education given much more extensive 
 than it is at present, by tlie introduction of modern languages and of natural sciences, so 
 as to fit the pupils in the highest sense of the word for mercantile and commercial pursuits ; 
 but I doubt if it would be wise to extend it beyond that. 
 
 22492. Have the governors had before them any programme of instruction given in the 
 trade schools in other countries — schools specially intended to train boys for mercantile 
 and mechanical pursuits ? — I am not aware ; but from having attended at the board during 
 the admission of boys, it appears to me that in a large majority of instances the boys 
 admitted are the children of tradespeople. 
 
 22493. Mr. Hughes. — That is, of humble mechanics ? — Yes ; the majority are the children 
 of persons engaged in t'-ades. 
 
 22494. In the sense I have mentioned? — Yes; engaged in mechanical trades. 
 
 22495. Cliairman. — In the high scliool of Edinburgh, which is intended to give a good 
 commercial education, opportunities are at the same time ailbrded for instruction to boys 
 who mean to pursue their studies in other courses afterwards. There is a course of English 
 and Latin which all are alike obliged to pass through — Latin being an essential part of the 
 discipline and culture. Would you be in favour of such an arrangement as tliat ? — I do 
 not mean to say that a classical education, as it is called, would not be an advantage to a 
 boy in any rank of life, or that it would not be a desirable thing to give ; but if that is put 
 prominently forward, as it is in schools commonly called classical schools, then matters must 
 be neglected which I conceive would be of greater importance to the pupils in the institution. 
 
 22496. Would you be afraid if both Greek and Latin were introduced into the school 
 course, tliat of necessity the study of the modern languages and the natural sciences, would 
 be discouraged ? — I conceive that it would be bettor for the boys' instruction to prepare 
 them in the modern languages and the natural sciences, than to add the other branches of 
 educaiion — the result of which would be that none of them would be well taught, but all 
 imperfectly. 
 
 22497. Have you any suggestions to offer with regard to the management of the financial
 
 168 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Hnaiiitaf and Fr#f- 
 
 Srhoni of Khu] 
 
 ( 'hurha If., rnnimo/i!;^ 
 
 railed the 
 Blue Clint Hospital. 
 
 F. W. Bra \y. Esq. 
 
 affairs of the hospital, particularly with reference to the management of the landeclestaten, 
 which it appears do not yield rents now at all as great as they used to do ? — As to a large 
 portion of their property, the governors have no means of increasing the rent — namely, the 
 iec-larm irrants. 1 believe, from various causes connected with the state of the country, the 
 rent of Noddstown is mucli less tlian it was in years past ; and I do believe that some 
 portion of that jn-o-perty lias been, in the lap.se of years, lost. 
 
 22498. ilr. Hu<jhes. — The land, which i.s now held under £l an acre, was let at 1(3.?.: 
 but assuming that to be a fair rent, it produced in 1808 a I'ent which would be very 
 nearly treble the amount at present returned and accounted for. The assumption that 
 arises in my mind is this, that at least one-third of the acrcable quantity has been abstracted 
 by encroachments and by losses ? — The matter never arose since 1 became a governor, and I 
 never investigated it myself, but took the rent to be what it was stated. I know this, that the 
 governors are not satisfied with the management of that same land at the present moment. 
 J know myself we had great difficulty in getting proper agency accounts, and getting them 
 returned and made out in an intelligible form. I believe a very few years ago all the arrears 
 were cleared off, and the land was given to the tenants without any arrear ; but at the 
 present moment there is an arrear. which we have great difficulty in getting collected. 
 
 224;)9. Chairman. — That was on the occasion of the determination of Mr. Graham's tenancy? 
 
 22500. Mr. Hiiglies. — About 1848 or 1849, after the surrender was taken from Graham, 
 he appears to liave let the lands to twenty-live or tvrcnty-six tenants, or, I believe, to a 
 great many more. — A vast amount of the arrears was allowed to accumulate from various 
 circumstances, for which the governors cannot themselves be free from blame, and a great 
 deal of difficulty was experienced in recovering them. 
 
 22.501. Are you aware how many denominations of land would be properly included 
 under the head of Injised estates? — I am not. 
 
 22502. Mr. O'Brien reported six? — I cannot say wlietlier he is right or wrong. 
 
 22503. Six estates that have lapsed through neglect ? — With regard to the vicarage of 
 iluUingai-, it docs not appear, from any thing I can discover, to have belonged to the 
 governors. 
 
 22504. They have an income derived from Mullingar ? — But it is included under the 
 head of one of the lapsed properties, and I am not aware from any thing I have discovered 
 that it ever belonged ta the governors ; I do not know that tlie tithes of Bray were ever 
 included as actnallv received; they may have been nominally given, but 1 am not aware 
 they were actually paid to anj- of the governors. 
 
 22505. Are you aware what is the date of the last audited account of the registrar? — 
 I should think 1853 or 1854. 
 
 22506. We have only the accounts made up to 1853 ; I can only say we were informed 
 by Mr. Hone that the accounts were made up ; but not audited by the governors, and 
 here we are in tlic month of April, 185(), witli an Jiccount headed — " Account for the year 
 commencing 29th September, 1853, and ending 28th September, 1854," showing a balance 
 in favour of the governors of £477 '2s. 8d., which has not been audited up to the present 
 moment? — I was aware of that. 
 
 22507. AVliat is the reason tlie accounts for 1853, 1854, or 1855, are not made uji and 
 audited ? — I do not recollect Mr, Hone having assigned any particular reason for it. 
 
 Addison Ilonc, E«q- 
 
 Addison Hone, Esq., further examined. 
 
 22508. The account for 1853 was made up as you see, but not audited. The reason 
 that account was not audited as well as the other accounts not made up, was that there 
 was a disposition on the part of some of the governors, particularly of i\Ir. Brady himself, 
 to consider that tlie accounts sliould be made up to 29tli September, instead of the 28tli. 
 Tlic account for 1^54 had been made up jirior to this question being raised at the board ; 
 and 1 did not proceed with tlio account of 1855, not wishing to embarrass the question ; 
 for if the accounts were made uji, and laid before tlie board, they miglit afterwards say tliat 
 tliev iireferred to have thein made up to tlie 29th instead of the 28tli. I considered I 
 would probably be incurring unnecessary expense in getting tliein made up to the 28th, 
 and tliat is tlic reason why they arc not made up. 
 
 22509. Mr. llin/hes. — That may account for not making up the account of 1855, but it is 
 not a reason for not auditing the account of 1853? — It is made up, and furnished to the 
 board ; but then, jiending this question, the account lias not been audited. 
 
 22510. The first item 1 see on the credit side nf the account, is £499 in favour of the 
 governors. Where is that balance — in your hands? — It is in the bank, 
 
 22511. To the credit of the governors? — Yes. 
 
 22512. Would it not he a better mode of kcejiing the accounts if they were concluded 
 to 39th of Sopteml)er ? — 1 cannot see the did'erence. I always told Mr. Brady that 1 had 
 no objection to keeping the accounts in that way, if the hoard so ordered; but that they 
 had ordered me to make them up to 28th, which order was not reversed, 
 
 22513. But if they were made up to the 29tli would it not show another half-year's rent? 
 It would bo furnishing that which was not available. 
 
 22514. Yes ; but it would represent more truly the state of the accounts than by making 
 them ui) before the gale day ? — 1 have no objection to keei)ing the accounts in tliis way, but 
 I am strictly untler the; orders of the hoard ; and the instnnt the board revises that order, 
 and orders me to make them up in a particular way, I will do so ; but until then I will con- 
 tinue to obey the present order.
 
 EVIDENCE. 169 
 
 Francis William Brady, Esq., further examined. l)t,•nLI^f. 
 
 2251.5. I may state that it is some tliree or four years since I brought this matter under UnspihJ^nd Free 
 the notice of the board, and I a])])lied that tlio board should make an order tliat the Sc/iool of Km;/ 
 accounts should be made up, including tlie last gab; day. The board refused to make any ^'''"'''"JJ^,',]'"'''''''''' 
 alteration, alleging that the accounts were kept in conformity with the system adopted at bIw. 'coat iLisjnial. 
 Somerset House, and they refused to make the order. I should not wish, however, that j,-. \x. I5ra<ly, Esq. 
 the Commissioners should take the board as assenting to all that ]\Ir. Hone has stated. 
 
 22ol(). 1 will just call your attention to one or two dates. I find tlic account for tlio 
 year 18.50 not audited until 21st of February, 1851 ; that is a period of four or five months 
 after the time to wliich the account is brougiit out, and which includes tlie last half-year. 
 The fact is, the governors audit tlie account in eleven months after the time at which they 
 should be audited, which is not a proper system. — Certainly not. I am not aware that I did 
 express any intention of applying to tlie board to alter the mode of making up the account 
 of 1853. i think Mr. Kyle did so ; but I certainly never would have assented, if asked my 
 opinion, to tlie accounts not being so made up for the whole period; and I never did assent. 
 
 22517. Ckairiiian. — Have you any suggestions to offer with regard to any improvement 
 in the domestic economy of the establishment ? — I think tlie boys are well looked after — 
 their diet is remarkably well attended to ; and the general care and superintendence 
 exercised over them by the masters and drill-master are highly creditable to them ; but 
 still I do not tliink tlieir a])pearance is what it ought to be, considering the money expended 
 on them. I tliink any person going into tlie institution would observe a slovenly, careless 
 appearance about their dress and demeanour. 1 also think that tlie clothing of tlio boys 
 is a question whicli ought to receive some attention. I know it is the wish of the boys 
 themselves that their clothing should be altered, and I heard the medical officer state 
 that the kind of clothes whicli thoy were obliged to wear, exposed them to considerable 
 risk of cold. I know from ilr. I^e Pan that the boys while in church are obliged to unbut- 
 ton tlieir knee-breeches — in fact, they arc very seldom buttoned. 
 
 22518. Have you heard any instance in which boys were exposed to insult, when they 
 appeared in public in this dress? — 1 cannot say that I have. The dress is one tliat ought 
 to be distinctive and peculiar ; but it need not be a necessarily uncomfortable one. 
 
 John Mallet, Esq., sworn and examined. joim Mallet, Es(i. 
 
 22519. Cliairman. — How long have you been a governor of the King's Hospital ?^I 
 think since the year 1832. 
 
 22520. I perceive from an examination of the minute books, that you have boon a 
 constant attendant on the committees ? — I would be much more serviceable to the institu- 
 tion, if I was able to be so. 
 
 22521. Have you any suggestions to oft'er to the Commissioners with regard to any 
 matters that we have inquired into in the course of the present investigation? — 1 do not 
 know that I have. I wish most sincerely we could enlarge the benefits of the institution. 
 
 22522. Do you see any definite mode of doing so — either by increasing the funds, or 
 applying them more economically ? — Tlie answer given by Mr. Brady perfectly coincides 
 with my ideas. There is, however, one head in the management of the affairs of the 
 institution, which is very expensive. 
 
 22523. Do you object to one-third of the income being expended upon the staff of the 
 establishment ? — It is very objectionable if it could be avoided. 1 was going to say that 
 there is one branch of the current ex])enscs, which, as things now exist, I would wisli to 
 see curtailed, but I am unwilling to inflict any injury by any words I may utter. I think 
 the expenses ent.ailed by the apjiointment of the registrar are much larger than could be 
 Wished for under existing circumstances. 
 
 22524. The registrar, as residing in the institution, is charged with the general control 
 of it — ho is responsible in the absence of the governors themselves, for the general admin- 
 istration of the institution ? — That is the case. 
 
 22525. How would you provide for that kind of general control and administration. 
 Would you entrust it to the master ? — I look upon it as utterly impracticable tliat the 
 head master and chaplain could take the management of the property of the concern, and 
 it would be inconsistent with his sacred duties. 
 
 22526. Perhaps you are of opinion that a general control and superintendence of the 
 institution might be vested in him, whilst some of the purely secular matters were committed 
 to an agent, whose salary was not so large as that assigned to the present officer? — 
 I think your words embrace my answer. I think the head-master might undertake, with 
 perfect propriety, some of the secular duties, without interfering with his ecclesiastical or 
 scholastic duties. 
 
 22527. We should be glad to receive any information or explanation from you, with 
 reference to the financial affairs of the hospital, which you have watched over for a consider- 
 able length of time? — I wish 1 felt myself competent to make some adequate suggestions to 
 you. I am as willing to oft'er them as you could possilily wish ; but I would ask to make a few 
 observations upon a question asked Mr. Brady, by Mr. Hughes, just now : how my brother 
 governors accounted for the great discrejiancy between the income arising from the 
 estate of Noddstovvn in the year 180S, and that returned within a very short period. 
 Perhaps you may not be old enough, but I know tliat I am, to remember Bonaparte's wars ; 
 and to remember the war prices for all human food at that time. Since that, wo have had 
 forty years of peace, and tliat niav account for a large portion of the discrepancy in the 
 
 Vol. II. ■ Z ■
 
 170 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DUBLIK. 
 
 Hospital and Fn-u 
 
 School of King 
 
 Charies II., conunonh/ 
 
 called the 
 Slue Coat Hospital. 
 
 John Mallet, Esq. 
 
 value of that estate. But anotlicr most important ingredient iu tlic reduction of tlie income 
 of that part of the property of the institution, is the robbery which has been committed 
 on that estate. I think — indeed, I am as convinced of it as I am going to speak of it — that a 
 slice of 107 acres, or thereabouts, was stolen from that estate, i was one of the deputation 
 that was sent down to investigate the affairs of that property some years ago — I believe, 
 as Mr. Hughes stated, in 1848. Mr. Quinton suggested that such persons should be sum- 
 moned as could give information on the subject. The lease by which the tenant at that 
 time held was approaching its expiration, and he was making application for a renewal. 
 The governors did not possess what they considered an accurate map of the property, and 
 Mr. Byrne, a surveyor in tliis city, was charged to go down with the deputation of the 
 governors, and I think Mr. Hone also accompanied us. We were aware of those retrenched 
 lands before we went down ; for, when it was decided that I should go down, I requested 
 Mr. Hone to give me as much information on the subject as he could fm-nish. I asked him, 
 have you got a map, or any thing that would guide us, in our investigation of the Nodds- 
 town property. He said there was an old map, which he produced. On part of this map 
 was marked off what were called " retrenched lands." I asked what "retrenched lands" 
 meant, becaxise the designation was quite new to my ideas, and I could not tell exactly 
 what it meant, in this sense. When a man lives beyond his income, and becomes embar- 
 rassed, he has necessity to retrench his expenses ; and I think there has been retrenchment 
 on this estate. When we were at Tij^perary, it was suggested, and I agreed in the sug- 
 gestion, that we should survey the retrenched lands. The first thing we did was to get 
 the good will of the Tipperary boys ; and having succeeded, we proceeded to survey the 
 " retrenched lands." Whilst we were doing it, we encountered three or four countrymen, 
 who appeared to be large farmers ; and they began to tell us what they knew of their own 
 knowledge, and of their traditional knowledge, with regard to the ground we were 
 standing on. They said, it had been formerly rented by a Mr. Phelan, who, as his lease 
 was about to expire, made frequent apxjiications to the board, for a renewal, with little 
 chance of success. The estate is bounded In- the river Suir on the western side, and in the 
 winter months part of it is flooded, which flooded part was never given at an acreable rent. 
 It was called the " slobs," and the tenants were charged for it according to their holdings. 
 Phelan got the " slobs" surveyed, and got some laud which adjoined tlie estates of Lord 
 Doneraile, and the Marquess of Ormond, and began to cut a ditch running parallel with the 
 road from Cashel to Thurles ; and when h;' got iu near the further boundary, he found 
 that he had no entrance to tlie retrenched lands ; and then he got the persons that were 
 employed (this is tlie story of our informants) to turn the ditch at right-angles to the 
 Thurles road, and in doing so, took a slice off these lands. Now, Mr. O'Brien, in his 
 report, which has been adverted to, recommends many things to be done : he recommends 
 a practical investigation to be gone into, to see and recover this slice of property, if it ever 
 belonged to the institution. He recommends that inquiry should be made of Lord 
 Doneraile, and that permission sliould be asked of him to look at the maps of his property, 
 in order to see how they are — whether they recognise that as part of the estate of 
 Noddstown that was so cut oft". He also recommends that the JJarqucss of Ormond should 
 be applied to ; and, I think you will find in his report that he also recommends reference 
 to the receipts of the local tax-collector, and to the grand jury receipts, to see how they 
 are recognised. These persons I have been speaking of came to Dublin, and were ready 
 to make the most solemn affidavit of the truth of what they stated to the deputation. One 
 or two of them — one of them at least, named Flaherty — was employed by Phelan in the 
 cutting of this ditch. Not to waste the time of the Commissioners further, with respect 
 to this Noddstown projierty, I may state, I am as convinced that 107 acres have been stolen 
 from the estate as I am that I am speaking at this moment. This would account for some 
 of the discrepancy that Mr. Hughes very properly inquired into. Then there was a gradual 
 diminution in the price of agricultural produce, from the war price of 1807-8 down to the 
 period Mr. Hughes adverted to, which, together with tlie diminution in quantity I have 
 adverted to, would probably account for the deficiency in income. 
 
 22.528. It appears from'jlr. O'Brien's report, tiiat in 1821 tlie rent of tlic lands of 
 Noddstown amounted to £1,000 a-year, which is a considerable reduction from what the 
 rent was in 1808 ; and that change in the rent might, no doubt, be ascribed, in combination 
 with the other circumstances you have mentioned, to the fall in prices ; but then, since 
 1821, when the rent was £1,000 a-year, do you think tbe dimimition of income has arisen 
 in part from the retrenchment of these lands ; or do you ascribe it to other causes? — The 
 average rent of tlic estate is \Gs. an acre. Although it is situated in Tipperary, it is not of 
 the quality of the bulk of the land in that county — it is an iiKliU'erent soil. 
 
 22.529. Tiicrc is another question which the Commissioners wish to bring before you. 
 Were exertions made to get in the arrears of rent, and have not arrears been allowed to 
 accumulate ; and when they accumulated, has there not been some laxity in the caUing of 
 tliem in ? — I think there lias been laxity. 
 
 22530. Dr. Andrew.t.~l think you stated, Mr. JIallet, that you visited the Noddstown 
 estate in 1848 ? — I believe it was in that year. 
 
 22531. Who was the immediate tenant of tlie lands at that time? — I think his name was 
 Graham. 
 
 225.'!2. Did he claim under Phelan ? — I'hclan occupied before him. 
 
 225.3.3. Did he occupy under Phelan? — Phelan hit liis lease run out, when he took the 
 alice off" the estate. 
 
 225.34. Do you know when Mr. Phelan's lease expired ? — I do not.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 171 
 
 22535. Do you remember the Christian name of Phelan ? — I do not ; hut I think it was 
 Thomas. 
 
 225.'56. Was it WilHam, do you think ? — I cannot speak as to the Christian name. 
 
 22537. Will the papers in the lios]jital show the d:itc of I'lielan's lease ? — Yes ; but there 
 is another fact connected with tiicse retrenched lands, which, it occurs to me, even at tiie 
 risk of detaining you, I ought to mention. Mr. O'Brien is as fully convinced as 1 am that 
 these retrenched lands were stolon from the estate ; and he, in his investigation of the muni- 
 ments of the institution, found the leases that had been made to former tenants, and all of 
 them state, " as appears liy the map annexed ;"' for the ancient mode was to annex the 
 map, but the modern puts it into the lease itself, where it caimot be cut oft' with a pair of 
 scissors : but these maps cannot be got. 
 
 22538. Are you aware whether this is one of the estates that appear in the Down 
 survey ?— It ap])eared in the Down survey, a part of which is in the custom-house ; the other 
 part. I believe, has been burnt, which part contained the survey of this portion of the estate. 
 
 22539. Is there any part of the Down survey of the estate remaining? — I do not know. 
 
 22540. If there was you might be able to point out the Suir boundary. — It would be a 
 great advantage to get it. 
 
 22541. The probability is, the Suir was the ancient boundary. — The ditch I have been 
 spealiing of had been cut oft' twenty or thirty years before the time I was down there ; and, 
 as if God would not permit it, the trees which were planted on it never grew, nor a blade 
 of grass. 
 
 22542. You have mentioned two fiicts that seem to indicate the boundary — first, the 
 natural boundary, and secondly, that there would have been no entrance but through 
 your lands ? — Just so ; if Phelan continued his ditch until he reached the northern 
 boundary, he would never approach to the ground he was cutting oft'; and then he said — 
 " I must turn around," and he did turn around. 
 
 22543. Chairman Losses of this kind arise from the want of periodical surveys, 
 
 and from the want of complete rentals, showing how the lands are held ? — The thing 
 was badly managed. The governors had a registrar, who was very much concerned in this 
 robbery, as I call it. It is not the present man, for, I believe, he would not be callable 
 of participating in such an act. 
 
 22544. The Report of the Commissioners of Municipal Corporations of Ireland refers to 
 the defalcations of the previous registrar, and to the very heavy losses sustained by the 
 institution in consequence of his defalcations. 
 
 22545. I believe G.ahan was his name ? 
 
 22546. [Mr. A. Hone.—M was.] 
 
 22547. Dr. Andrews. — Do you know a person named Mills? — I heard the name. 
 
 22548. Did he hold the lands before Graham ? — I should think so. 
 
 22549. Could you tell whether Mr. Marcus got Phelan's interest, or whether he came in 
 as a new tenant ? — I cannot answer that question directly. I think that when Phelan's lease 
 expired. Mills became the new tenant. 
 
 22550. [Mr. A. Hone. — I do not think IMills was ever a direct tenant.] 
 
 22551. Did he become the assignee of Phelan ?— I think Mills was the direct tenant at 
 one time. 
 
 22552. Chairman. — We will not now trouble you, Mr. IMallet, with further questions; but 
 if you desire to make any further statement we will hear it. — There are a few words which 
 I would wish to add respecting my protest, which you read yesterday, against touchhig 
 Hemming's fund. I looked upon that as a sacred fund ; it was the savings of a military 
 man, wdio, having been educated in the Blue Coat Hospital, by good cbuduct, rose to the 
 rank of captain in Her Majesty's service. He contrived out of his savings to leave £2,000 
 for the benefit of the institution where he received his education. I had a feeling of 
 veneration towards him ; and that was one, if not the most prominent motive, which 
 induced me to protest against the sale of this stock. The other motive by which I was 
 actuated, was my personal safety. I consulted with my solicitor at the time, the late John 
 W.Moore, of Uutland-square, who, I believe, drew up the protest, and he said it was incum- 
 bent on me to do so. At the same time, to meet the demands on the institution, for which 
 Hemming's money was touched, I do not see how they were to be provided for in any 
 other way. I made a protest against the sale of this stock, because I considered it was a mark 
 of respect which was due to this man, and I could not but avail myself of the oppoi-tunity 
 of paying it. With regard to the dress of the children, I might echo the sentiment of Mr. 
 Hyndman, that out of veneration for our forefathers who founded that institution. I desire to 
 see it handed down untouched by tliose wdiom they have left behind them ; and I think that 
 the clothing is an emblem of its antiquity : and as to its effects on the children, they are 
 as warm as my grand-children are, or as I am myself in winter, though I am an old man 
 approaching to eighty. As to their knee-breeches not being buttoned when kneeling in 
 church at their prayers, let them be enlarged, — the boys will grow, and I hope they will 
 grow and do well. 
 
 J. E. Hyndman, Esq., further examined. 
 
 22553. With regard to the sale of stock, I recollect I disputed the question at the board. 
 The matter came to a division, and I recollect perfectly well I voted against sclhng otit 
 that stock. The impression on my mind was, that the sale was improper and illegal, and, 
 thercfoi'e, I voted against it. 
 
 Vol. II. Z 2 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 fittsjiittti and Free 
 
 Sc/iuiil <;/■ Kinc/ 
 
 Clinrks II., cnmmonly 
 
 ralli'd tlie 
 lilue ('mil Hnspilal. 
 
 .Tolin Mallet, Esq. 
 
 J. E. Hyndman, Esq.
 
 172 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dddlik. Francis William Brady, Esq., further examined. 
 
 // « 7~I — d F 22554. Allow me to add an observation -Tjiicli I omitted when under examination, which 
 
 Sclwolof Kiny is, that I am of ojiinion tliere is nothing whatever in the cliartcr or any law, or any rule of 
 
 Charles II., cummonhj ^jjg institution, which I havc been able to discover, limiting admission to the children or 
 
 T>i.. "r-", UL^mi crandcliildrcn of freemen. That is a limitation which I have never been able to discover 
 
 F Vt' Bradv E*q i" ^^'Y ^^'•^' of the institution, and certainly there is nothing in the charter that restricts the 
 
 admission to the children of freemen, the only limitation being, that they are to be poor 
 
 children. 
 
 22555. [Mr. Mallet. — At the time this charter of Charles II. was granted none but free- 
 men were called citizens ; and if you look to the term citizen in the charter, you will find 
 the denomination applied to the mayor, commons, sherifts, and citizens. The freemen were 
 citizens. 
 
 22556. Secretary. — The word citizen in tlie charter applies to the corporation, but the 
 persons who were to be the objects of the charity are described in the following terms : — 
 " Whereas several of our subjects in that our city and kingdom, being charitably affected 
 towards such as through age, sickness, or other accidents, are reduced to poverty or disabled 
 to gain their living by their own lalwur : and piously considering also the great benefit of 
 the good education and instruction of youth, have proposed the erection, building, and 
 establishing of an hospital and free school, * * * [which] shall for ever- 
 more hereafter be received, and continue a manor house and place of abode for the 
 sustentation and relief of poor children, aged, and impotent people.'' There is not a 
 word in the charter that the children are to be the children of citizens; on the contrary, it 
 says — " whereas several of our subjects, in that our city and kingdom ;" which shows 
 that the persons who were to found the charity, were not the citizens of Dublin but the 
 inhabitants of Ireland. The body to whom the administration of the affairs of the hospital 
 ■was committed was, no doubt, the corporation, but in their corporate name, which includes 
 the citizens of Dublin, who were freemen. Then we find again- — " subjects of our said city 
 and kingdom ;" that is, every subject in the kingdom, which would imply that the beuefits 
 of the institution were not to be confined to the city.] 
 
 Joliu Mallet, Esq. John Mallet, Esq., further examined. 
 
 22557. The corporators of that day to whom the charter was made, have, with great 
 propriety, in my mind, provided for their own friends. 
 
 22558. Chairman. — Mr. Mallet, may I ask whether any legal opinion was ever taken on 
 this point bj' the governors ? — Not to my knowledge. 
 
 22559- Do you remember whether any legal opinion was ever taken ? — Oh, no. 
 
 22560. The governors are intrusted by tlie charter with the general power of making 
 bye-laws, and under that power they may have supposed that they were autliorizcd to make 
 this restriction. — I do not fancy tlicy considered it necessary to take a legal opinion. 
 
 WiHiam c. Kjle, [ William C- Kyle, Esq., ll.d., sworn and examined 
 
 22561. Chairman. — How long have you been a governor of the King's Hospital ? A 
 
 very short time ; I tliink it was about tlie end of the year 1854 that I became a governor. 
 
 22562. You have heard the discu.s.sions Mhich have been raised respecting different 
 matters ailccting tiie interests of the hospital, in the course of to-day and yesterday : arc 
 there any suggestions which you would wish to make respecting "these topics ?_lWith 
 regard to the financial part of the institution I can say very little, because I am but a short 
 time connected with it, beyond this, tliat I know the house committee, which is in fact the 
 working committee of the establishment, has been taking great ])aius to collect, and enforce 
 the collection, of the arrears that were due to the institution, from Stephcn's-green and 
 the different otlier properties. Tliey have had various reports from their collectors, who 
 have attended the meetings of the committee, and memorandums were made and a sche- 
 dule of the arrears made out, which was brought before us constantly. I have attended 
 the sub-committee tolerably regularly, and almost on every occasion that list has been 
 before us. ^^'c asked questions with respect to cacli ])articular arrear. was it colloctcil, and 
 if not, why it was left uncollected. Tlio memorandums wo have made from time to time 
 would show tliat tlic committee are exerting themselves as nuich as they can, to get the 
 finances into a more satisfactory state tlian they have been. I do not know much about 
 the financial affairs of the institution, except that we are exerting ourselves as much as 
 possible to make our funds more available, for the purpose of extending the benefits of the 
 charity, and adding to the number of boys; for the staff is evidently (juite comjjctent to 
 manage twice tlio number of lioys tliat wo have at present, and tiie institution is largo 
 enough for the accommodation of twice the number. As you have asked me had 1 any 
 suggestions to make, it occurs to mo that the ]H)sition of the schoolmaster is not what it 
 ougiit to bo in such an establishment. I think lie is not in his proper ])lace. I think 
 from his rank and profession he ought to occupy a more elevated ])osition ; and in order to 
 command the respect due to him, he is not at all in his proper ])lacc. I think the dress 
 of the boys is absurd and inconvcnicMit. I totally dissent from my friends licside mo on 
 this point, and I do not think tliat tlio argument hrouglit forward by l\Ir. Ilyndman in 
 favour (if the present dress is at all to tlic ])oint; it amounts to this, that because 
 an absurd dress has been adopted and continued at Christ's Church Hospital, therefore 
 we should follow the absurdity. 
 
 225G3. [Mr. J. E, Ilyndman. — I do not consider it an absurdity.]
 
 EVIDPJXCF, 173 
 
 225G4. That is a matter of opinion. I not merely consider it aLsurd, but I liavc con- J)ijiilin. 
 
 sidercd how to change it. Tliis matter has heen referred to liefore, and I may as well 
 
 state what occurnMl. At the committee wliicli a.ssemhled sliortly before Christmas, or .s'/i«''/"/''l'/V»" 
 about tlie time tlie clothes were to he onb'red. Mr. Hone l^rought the matter Itefore the Churl<x II., cominonhj 
 conmiittee, and said it was necessary they sJKiidd bo tlien ordered, for tlic purpose of aitlcd the 
 
 liaving them ready at a ])articular time. ]Mr. llrady and I expressed our opinion that the ."f ^'""[ '('"'"'"'• 
 dress was absurd, and wished to have it altered. Mr. Hyndman said the clotbe.s should j^sL"''',",' *,';' '^- '''' 
 
 be ordered at once, tliat tliey might be ready in time. I then said, " Very well, let us sum- ' '' 
 
 mon a special meeting of the governors to consider the question." A resolution to that 
 effect was moved and seconded : but one fif tlie governors mIio had lieen present at the 
 early part of the discussion, liad in tlic meantime gone into tlie chapel to look at the 
 organ, and did not come into the room. Tiie special meeting was summoned, wo attended, 
 but the point was made that there were not a sufficient number in the room -when the 
 resolution convening the meeting was passed. I told them that Mr. Elackburno (piite 
 approved of what had been done; l)ut they insisted that tliere was not a sufficient nundjcr 
 in the room, and that tlie meeting v.as illegally convened. I intend bringing the question 
 forward again wliencvcr I can get an opportunity. Tlie dress 1 intended to suggest was 
 very much of tiic style you see in the French schools and colleges, a dress which would not 
 cost more but I am sure -would look better. 1 have myself remai-ked when 1 attended at 
 the chapel, that the boys are obliged to unbutton their dress when kneeling down ; and 
 after divine service is over, they collect in the yard with the mnjority of them having the 
 knees of their breeches unbuttoned. They arc less warm on Sunday, Ijecause they have 
 long trowsers during the week, and the change must be very injurious to tliem. I am 
 certainly determined to bring forward the matter as often as 1 can. There is another 
 thing that I have been protesting against ; I am of opinion that the mode of putting boys 
 into the institution is most absurd. The selection is left to yourself — the individual has 
 the patronage ; and it is a ft\rcc to say you only nominate, because you bring the question 
 before the governors, who sit around a table, and when you communicate to them the 
 name of the bo)^ whom you have nominated, they at once appoint him. 
 
 22;jG5. If you object to that mode of admitting boys, are you prepared to recommend 
 another '?^I should endeavour to establish the system of having a testimonial produced as 
 to qualification, position in life, and different matters of that kind ; I should have these 
 testimonials sent in some time previous to the appointment, and let them be investigated 
 by a sub-committee, and reported on, so that the best and fittest boys might be put in, 
 and not make the admission a matter of patronage. I know that in former times, persons 
 were put into the hospital whose admission was a great abuse. 
 
 2251)6. Upon what principle of selection would you recommend the governors to act ? — 
 I have not considered whether they are restricted to a certain extent by the charter. 
 
 22567. The charter seems only to indicate one qualification — namely, poverty ? — 
 Poverty would not be sufficient — there must be also good conduct. 
 
 22568. The religion is also indicated, as the children must be catechised by a Protestant ? 
 — I take it for granted that the institution must be strictly Protestant. 
 
 225G9. At present, the boys admitted must previously pass an examination before the 
 chaplain and schoolmaster, for he certifies. Are boys ever rejected on the ground of not 
 liaving obtained such preliminary instruction as would fit them to enter the school ? — I am 
 not long enough a governor to answer that question, though I think they are ; because I 
 remember at the last election at which I was present, one of the boys was catechised in 
 the board-room, for the purpose of seeing that he had learned some branch or another. 
 
 22570. Would you be so good as to state your views with regard to the general nature 
 of the education that ought to be given in the institution ? — 1 would give the boys what 
 you call a good English education, -which, of course, would embrace mathematics. 1 would 
 provide for instruction in Greek and Latin, as there might be boys who had a particular 
 talent in that way. I conceive, however, that the great object of the institution should be 
 to fit boys for situations in mercantile and middle class life. I think chemistrv, and 
 practical science, and drawing, are becoming every day more and more necessary, and 
 should form part of the school course. 
 
 22571. I noticed that in a report presented to the governors by Mr. Flynn, some time 
 ago, he especially recommended the introduction of drawing? — I have not seen his report. 
 
 22572. [Mr. John Mallet. — There is no calling in life in which drawing is not necessary.] 
 
 22573. What do you .say witli reference to the introduction of modern languages? — I 
 think German and French are absolutely necessary. 
 
 22574. As part of a good commercial education ? — Yes ; because in any continental 
 commercial house now, there is always a clerk for conducting the ibreign correspondence. 
 
 22575. Is there any other point upon which you wish to express an o])inion ? — I am very 
 an.xious about the improvement of the library in this establishment, and I was instrumental 
 in getting a resolution passed lately at the board (for the committee could not do it), that 
 an annual grant, or sum of money, not exceeding £lO, should be placed at the disposal of 
 the committee, for the purpose of buying books, or maps, which were necessary to enlarge 
 it. Nothing, however, has been done yet. 1 have made application to the librarian of 
 Trinity College, to sec if they would give us old books which were not sufficiently valuable 
 for the purposes of the college library. I understand that we did get sometliing of the sort 
 once before, but I have -written to Dr. Todd, and I have uo doubt he will favour the 
 application.
 
 174 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DtTBLIN. 
 
 Hospital and Free 
 
 School of Kinij 
 
 Charles II., communhj 
 
 called the 
 Blue Coat Hospital. 
 
 WiUiam C. Kyle, 
 
 Esq., LL.D. 
 
 Eer. L. A. Le Pan. 
 
 225'i'6. Ten pounds a-ycar would enable you to maintain an excellent scliool library ? — 
 I got a catalogue from Mr. Le Pan, of the bocks at present in the library, and it is not at 
 all a bad one ; but we have no maps, and we require them very much. Something must be. 
 also done to keep the schoolroom in better order than it is. I think it is in a very unsatis- 
 factory state. I have a good knowledge of institutions of this sort. I have visited the 
 institution which Mr. Hyndman has alluded to, Christ's Hospital, when the boys were at 
 their dinner, and also in the evening; and the style in which things are kept there is quite 
 different. I do not see why we could not keep them just as well, and I also think a great 
 deal might be done towards improving the internal economy of the estabhshment. 
 
 2257 7. Would such changes as you think practicable considerably increase the expenses ? 
 — I do not know that they would, but they would change the mode of expenditure. I think 
 it is absolutely necessary that the dining-room should be floored : being flagged gives it a 
 nasty appearance in winter. It is also very damp. 
 
 22578. I find these are points to which the governors are directing their attention. I 
 saw a resolution on the minute book, calling attention to that ? — I merely mention those 
 things, because you asked me were tliere any matters which occun-ed to me to suggest 
 that I considered would improve the institution. If we could devise some means for making 
 the governors attend better, it would be desirable. I think one of the principal reasons 
 why the working of the institution is thrown upon Mr. Hone is, that he is not supported as 
 he ought to be by the governors. If the governors attended constantly, Mr. Hone would 
 not have the responsibility throv\n on him he has at present. That he has the responsi- 
 bility is verv much the fault of the governors themselves. 
 
 22579. [Mr. J. Mallet. — The majority of the governors are old men like myself, and 
 they are not so etiicient and smart as the young ones.] 
 
 22580. \_Mr. J. E. Hyndman. — I suggested a plan to the committee for the purpose of 
 bi'inging the governors together, which I found to work well in public institutions — namely, 
 that they should breakfast together one morning in the week. I know it has worked veiy 
 well in hospitals and other places, but they did not fancy it.] 
 
 Rev. Louis A. Le Pan sworn and examined. 
 
 2258 1. Chairman. — What is the office which you hold in the King's Hospital ''—Chap- 
 lain and master of the hospital and school. 
 
 22582. Are the two offices consolidated ? — They are now, but were not so when I first 
 went to the hospital ; I was nine years master of the school, and the remaining number of 
 years chaplain and master. 
 
 22583. What was your salary as master before the consolidation of the offices!:' — £120 
 a-year. 
 
 22581. What is your salary at present? — £l80, with coals and apartments. 
 
 22585. I think I was told yesterday that that salary of £l!>0 a-year is free from income 
 tax '? — It is. 
 
 22586- What assistance have you from under masters ? — I have only one assistant. 
 
 225S7. Only one? — 1 mean only one scliool assistant; there is a person whose duty it is 
 to pay attention to the boys while at play. 
 
 22588. I merely ask what assistance you have in the schookoom ? — One assistant. 
 
 22589. Then two persons have to give instruction to seventy boys ? — The school wholly 
 devolves upon me and my assistant. 
 
 22590. For how many hours in the day do you give instruction to the boys — what are the 
 school hours ? — In summer, school commences at seven o'clock, and lasts from seven until 
 nine ; school is resumed at ten and continued until two ; in the evening, school commences at 
 about half-past five, and continues to seven ; there are evening jjrayers for the boys, which 
 commence at half-past eight ; and at nine, evening lecture, and prayers before they retire 
 to bed. 
 
 22591. How many hours are you employed youi-sclf in the schoolroom daily ? — All the 
 hours I have stated to you, except at the evening school, which I take alternately with the 
 assistant. I should mention that for twelve or thirteen years after 1 went to tlie hospital, 
 there were two schoolm.asters and a cliaplain ; but tlie governors tliouu;lit it desirable to 
 diminish the school staff, and it has now only one schoolmaster, who is chapkiin; and I 
 thoriglit it would lie unjust to myself to attend the evening school cycry evening, and 
 therefore I took it alternately. 
 
 22592. You attend yourself every day six hours ? — I enter the school every morning at 
 eight o'clock, and from tliat until nine in the evening, with the breaks 1 have told you, I 
 am engaged in the hospital. 
 
 22593. From eight to nine, then from ten to two, and alternately the evening school, you 
 arc engagcil in giving instruction? — Yes. 
 
 22504. Have you also to perform Sunday duty in the Chapel? — Y'cs; 1 have to perform 
 two services on Sunday. 
 
 22595. Do you preach on both occasions? — No; I preach at the day service, and the 
 evening service is open to the boys, and also to the public. 
 
 2259(i. Are your discourses for tlie general congregation, or especially intended for the 
 l)oys ? — The question is a very natural one. The time at which I must address myself 
 personally to the boys, is every morning ; I have a morning lecture at from ]ialt'-j)ast eight 
 to nine, on which occasion I speak to the children on such practical subjects as may bo 
 appropriately brought before boy.s ; I make the day school, in fact, the chief place for
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 175 
 
 DUDLIN. 
 
 Rev. L. A.LePan. 
 
 lecturing the boys, T can do it mucli more suitably there ; at the same time, I keep one tiling 
 
 in view — to make my discourses as clear and as intelligiljle as possible. 1 may mention, in 
 
 connexion with this subject, that I consider preaching from the pulpit, under such circum- //">=!>>i"l "'"l Free 
 
 stances, out or place; i adopted tins course when 1 came hr.st, but 1 have now made my Chatl<:sll.,ri,mmonhj 
 
 sermons more suited to the boys, so that they feel I am not prcachin": at them, to use a ''""'•'' "'« 
 
 common expression. Blu. C..,,, HospUal. 
 
 2259". Has the discipline of tlio school been generally in a satisfactory state? — It has, 
 and it is at present in an admirable state ; there have been, of course, breaches of discip- 
 line and little annoyances, and some serious ones at times ; but comjmriiig the present with 
 the past — comparing the state of the discipline under me and the state in which I got it — 
 there could not be a more f;ivourabIe comparison. 
 
 22598. In reading tlirougli the minute books for the last fifteen or sixteen years, I noticed 
 cases of tlio elopement of boys; have you any reason to know the cause of their elope- 
 ments? — They wore, in a great measure, to l)e attributed to the neglect of the man who 
 then took care of the training of the boys. 
 
 22599. Does the phrase " elopement," merely mean transgrcs.sing bounds, or does it 
 mean tliat they left the school with the intention of not returning to it? — No; I do not 
 think that was the reason they were brought before the board. 
 
 22600. I speak of elopements referred to in the minute books; and, so far as I could see, 
 they were always punished by expulsion. Could you tell me the causes? — I do not 
 remember the causes of the elopement. Some were cases of boys running out and back, 
 in which if they returned in a sliort time, I would not report them to the board; but, some 
 cases did occur, which I thought it my duty to report to the board. 
 
 22G01. I notice also mention made of a bai-ring out having taken place? — I remember 
 that, for they barred me out. 
 
 22602. That is a considerable time ago? — It was shortly after I went to the hospital, 
 when the boys showed neither resjiect to me nor to any one else. 
 
 2260.5. But has the discipline of the school much improved? — It has greatly improved ; 
 but a little circumstance occurred at the time you allude to, with the previous master, 
 which had a tendency to demoralize the boys. It was necessary in consequence of this 
 coming out to expel a number of boys. 
 
 22604. We also noticed a very great improvement in the reports of the examiner 
 
 appointed to inquire into the attainments of the boys at the periodical examination? Yes; 
 
 but I could have the boys better prepared for that examination under other circumstances. 
 For ten or twelve years after my appointment as master, there were two schoolmasters, one 
 of whom was a Scripture master ; I was thus able to see that a boy not only got a good 
 mercantile and general education, but also, in the department of science, was able to go 
 through a respectable course; so mucli so, that when he was leaving the hospital he 
 could go as a junior assistant in a school, or if be chose to enter college and get a return 
 for his labours by obtaining a classical education, as several have done, and as a younn- 
 friend of mine is doing at present, he could do so ; but that system has been interfered 
 with by the removal of one assistant. 
 
 22605. You have heard a question raised to-day with reference to the different 
 branches which it might be proposed to introduce into the school course, sucli .is modern 
 languages, instruction in chemistry, and natural philosophy. What is your opinion with 
 regard to the enlargement of the present school course? — I think a great boon, indeed, 
 would be conferred on the hospital, and a great advantage on the pupils, if modern 
 languages were introduced, and also drawing ; but the modern languages certainly should 
 be taught. 
 
 22606. The question as to the introduction of either or both of the dead lano-uao-es 
 appears to be a difficult one. What is your opinion with regard to it ? — I would be 
 almost afraid to recommend it. I think it would involve a great increase in the stall'; and 
 perhaps that constitutes the dililculty. 
 
 22607. i*o you tliink that it would be desirable to introduce the Latin language for the 
 purpose of improving the course of English instruction ? — No doubt ; the English course 
 would be improved by a knowledge of Latin ; but I question much if the advanta^-es would 
 not be counterbalanced. I think if Latin was introduced, it would be a pity that classics 
 could not be introduced in the fullest sense : I should like to see them introduced as 
 opening up an honourable career in hfe for many who might lay themselves out for it. 
 
 22608. Dr. Kyle threw out a suggestion which appeared to be a valuable one — that in 
 a school of this nature, it would be desirable to afford an opportunity of learning classics, 
 though they did not form part of the regular course, to particular boys exhibiting a remarkable 
 capacity, so as to enable them to proceed to the university and acquire increased classical 
 knowledge. — I have no doubt such an arrangement would be an advantage, but the diffi- 
 culty is how to carry it out. You should increase the stafl:' if you adopted this plan. It is 
 quite easy to carry out all these things, if you keep a proper staff. According to the pre- 
 sent arrangements of the school, I am not able properly to inspect it. If a head master is 
 to inspect a school properly he should not be always engaged, or should not feel himself 
 bound to be engaged in teaching. He should be "able to devote time to investigating 
 matters closely, and to see how things were proceeding ; but this description of supervision 
 is altogether taken out of my hands. 
 
 22609. It would be impossible for two persons to caiTy on the instruction of a school of 
 seventy boys without the introduction of the monitorial system ? — Yes, it would. 
 
 22610. Do you employ monitors, then ? — Yes.
 
 170 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 DcBLis. 226n. How do you manage not to interfere with the progress of tlio boys who are 
 
 .— — themselves monitors? — It docs interfere witli the progress of the boj^s, wliich I consider an 
 
 Sr/wnlofKu'in" essential objection to the monitorial system. You cannot take a boy from his class, and 
 
 Cfinilra n.', amiuoiih/ placc him ovcr another class, without interfering with his progress in his own class; and, 
 
 rrilhii i/ir although occasiouallv cmijloving a boy to examine other bovs may do tliat boy srood, yet 
 
 Blue Coni Hosintal. . . = i j.i • " x i" i i ■/ !■ -i. i- i ^ i • i ■ i- i 
 
 it IS not a good tinng to make a habit ot it trom week to week, removing him lor some days 
 ev. .. , . ,p an. i^^.^^^ j^j^ ^^y^ dj^sg an J placing him over another class. 
 
 22612. You do not object altogetlier to the monitorial system? — No, I think a little of 
 it is good; if you have an average class capable of being monitors, and that every week 
 j-ou draw out by rotation, I think the system is not injurious. 
 
 22613. Are you aware that the monitorial system is not as much, resorted to in superior 
 schools now as it was some time back ? — Y^es. 
 
 22614. There is a very strong reaction against it? — I think tliere can be no doubt but 
 that it is a bad system on the whole. 
 
 22615. I observe in the list of the officers of the institution an organist, whose salary is 
 £40 a-year — does he instruct the boys in music ? — lie teaches them singing twice a-wcek. 
 
 22616. Are they taught singing from note? — No- 
 
 226 IT. Asapart of education would you not be in favour of having them taught music? — I 
 would ; but there is no progress made in tliat department except there is a natural taste for it. 
 
 22618. Do you not think — and as a sclioolmaster you are competent to offer an opinion — 
 that music is a necessary part of education ? — I think it would be desirable to have it taught. 
 
 22619. Ax"e you aware tliat it is taught in schools of this class very generally, both in 
 England and foreign countries? — In foreign countries very e.xtensively. 
 
 22620. In every German school singing is taught by note? — Y^es. 
 
 22621. And if niu.sic was taught in that way the psalmody in your chapel would be very 
 much improved ? — I tliink so. 
 
 22G22 Migjit not such an improvement be made without any additional cost to the 
 institution? — Mr. Geary says he had some conversation with the governors on that subject, 
 but its result I cannot say. 
 
 22623. It is enough that you, as a schoolmaster, have expressed your opinion in favour 
 of the introduction of mu.sic as a part of the instruction of the boys? — I wish to see singing 
 and music both introduced. 
 
 22624. Are the examinations held periodically? — Tliey are held, but not at stated periods ; 
 I think, perliaps, for the number of years 1 have been in the hospital, the examinations 
 have been lield every two years. 
 
 22625. But not every year? — Not every year for these number of years; I have myself 
 been charged to give a report to tho governors on the state of the school; I lay the report 
 before tlie governors every board day. 
 
 22626. Is it your jirovinco to lay before the board any suggestions for improvements in 
 the course of instruction followed in tho school? — I think it right to say that I keep myself 
 to my own department ; for, although I am cliajilain of tlic King's Hospital and master of 
 the school, my jurisdiction does not extend beyond the scliool-room. 
 
 22627. When examinations are held, do you think it desirable that, generally speaking, 
 they should be conducted by persons wiio do not give instruction in tlie school? — Certainly; 
 I think there can be little satisfaction, so far as the governors are concerned, in any report 
 that 1 make upon the state of the school. It would be mucli more satisfactory to them if 
 it was drawn up by a stranger. I expressed that opinion to the governors themselves. 
 
 22628. Do you mean that a stranger who was not aware of the exact nature of the 
 instruction given, might be better able to test the acquirements of tho boys, and see whether 
 they had learned certain subjects, or were merely prepared in certain books ? — Scarcely tliat; 
 I would be alile to draw out the information much better than a stranger, but I tliink tho 
 governors would not have tho same coniidence in a report coming from me, their paid officer, 
 as from a stranger. I do not feel conifortalilc in making these reports. I wiudd nnicli rather 
 they were made by a stranger. What 1 have said lias reference only to tlie quarterly reports. 
 
 2262'J. I was rather inquiring with reicrence to tlie periodical examinations at which 
 prizes are awarded ? — I liave no doubt tliat they arc of advantage. 
 
 22630. And arc you of opinion that these periodical examinations ought to be conducted 
 by strangers, iu ])reference to the permanent teachers in tho institution? — For certain 
 reasons I would wish the examinations to be so conducteil ; but 1 have no doubt, if tho 
 children of a class were called up, that 1, knowing the class, and knowing each individual 
 boy, would test their knowledge better than a stranger; still, I'or many reasons, 1 would 
 wish a public examination, as a safeguard for myself. 
 
 22631. Do you, at tl\c examinations you hold yourself, distribute prizes? — No, but I 
 rc]iort; I examine the boys every day in tlie week. 
 
 22632. Wlio examines the boys on the occasion of tliose examin.ations which take place 
 every second year? — -Mr. ].,eeper in Scri]jture, and Mr. Myiin iu the secular brandies. 
 
 22633. Are they remunerated? — They are remunerated. 
 
 22634. Wlio selects the books for the use of the school? — I recommend to tho board the 
 books for the use of tlie scliool. 
 
 22635. Is tlie sciiool adequately supplied by tlie governors witli the books necessary for 
 the instruction of the boys ? — -Ye:!. 
 
 2263G. And with the other appliances wliicli arc ro(juisite? — Yes. 
 
 22637. One of the governors .spoke oi the want of maps? — Not in the school-room — it 
 was in the library; tho school-room is pretty well supplied with mops.
 
 & 
 
 EVIDENCE. 177 
 
 22G3S. [Dr. Kyle. — What I meant was, tliat tlic boys reading in tlie library sliould havo Duclin. 
 
 maps to refer to, witliout going to the .sclioolroom.] .— — 
 
 '22(;:i0. The studies and discipline of tlio sciiool are, in general, best looked after when Sdmnll'ifKin" 
 
 due att<!ntion is ])aid to tlie I'c^creation of tlic boys? — Yes. ('hirka IL.ciimmmlij 
 
 2'2()40. 1 would ask you whotber you are satislied witli tlic arrangements made in that ,,, ''"/I'-'^'Ji" . 
 
 . o 1- I xi • 1 ii J. 1 il 1 1 ,-, ,1 -"''"' ( 'I'll ll'iniiil'il. 
 
 res|)ect i' — les, 1 tiunk the arrangements are very good; the governors liave leit the i. , . j a L'P- 
 arrattgcments very much to myself ; tliougii Mr. Hone, as registrar, has nothing to do with 
 the master of the school, wo afford, to the utmost of our power, any little amusement the 
 boys require ; and I tind always that a good game of ball does more to drive away the 
 spirit of contradiction — does more to dispel bad feelings — than any thing else wliich could 
 be devised. 
 
 22641. Have the boys any out-door industrial employment ? — No. 
 
 22()42. Are they engaged in gardening? — No; but I think it would be desirable if some 
 occupation of the kind could be provided. Such a project has come under the notice of 
 the governors, and tlioy find it diHicult to carry it out. 
 
 2264.'5. Perhaps they have iiardly sjjace for a gai'dcn ? — We did at one time commence 
 gardening, Init i'rom the unprotected state of tiie place, the boys derived little advantage 
 or anuisemciit from it ; for gardening is a thing which requires a great deal of care and 
 attention ; and it will, if not properly carried out, have rather an injurious effect than other- 
 wise on their tempers. 
 
 22644. Have they no other industrial occupations, such as carpentry and turning ? — No. 
 
 22645. In wet weather occupations of that kind would be found interesting to the boys, 
 and even improving to them? — I have not turned my attention to that subject. 
 
 22646. Tliey miglit bring geometry to bear on carpentry with great advantage ? — They 
 migiit. 
 
 22647. Is mensuration taught as part of the school course? — It is part of tlie school 
 lessons. 
 
 22643. Is navigation? — No; navigation is not taught in the school at present. My 
 object, when I went to the hosjjital, was to give a good mercantile education, and to teach 
 as much science as would enable the boys when they left, to turn their attention either to 
 college, or to other avocations in life. 
 
 22649. Are you aware that the candidates for situations in many Government offices are 
 subjected to an examination by the Civil Service Commissioners, in order to test their fit- 
 ness. Are you acquainted witli the nature of these examinations ? — I have seen some of 
 the candidates and also the printed reports. 
 
 22().50. Tliey liave publislied their first report, wliich contains their examination papers. It 
 is a document which might be most advantageously laid before your committee ? — That is 
 a suggestion deserving of attention. 
 
 22651. This report of the Commissioners indicates that a very large proportion of per- 
 sons who are rejected, fail in passing their examinations in consequence of their ignorance 
 of spelling, and of elementary arithmetic ? — Yes. 
 
 22652. What means do you adopt to secure accuracy in the boys' spelling? — Spelling is 
 not taught by me from a spelling book ; as it forms a part of almost all the lessons in which 
 the boys are engaged. If a boy reads a lesson it is always made a spelling lesson by exa- 
 mination afterwards. Spelling books are used more in accordance with a popular opinion, 
 than from any positive knowledge of their usefulness. 
 
 22653. Perhaps you are in favour of teaching spelling by means of dictation? — That 
 system is also pursued. 
 
 22654. How often do the boys write English from dictation ? — I have a class two or 
 three times a week. I have cards on which the duties of the boys are sketched out. If 
 you wish you can have them. 
 
 22655. I have got them ; and I perceive that the first class gives an hour in the week 
 to dictation, and the second class also an hour to dictation. I presume that recommenda- 
 tions coming from you, with reference to the course of study to be pursued in the school, arc, 
 in general, attended to by tlie managing committee ? — I should be happy they were ; but 
 some of the governors to whom I have mentioned the desirableness of enlarging the course 
 of education, by the introduction of modern languages, have made the statement that no 
 additional expense could be incurred ; and as I have mentioned already, with the present 
 staff in the schoolroom, I am prevented from thinking of extending the course. The con- 
 trary svstem is pursued, for in place of increasing the instruction of the boys, they have 
 essentially dimiiii;<hed it. The Commissioners can conceive the time and trouble it takes 
 to instruct seventy boys. 
 
 22()56. Dr. Andrews. — It seems impossible to extend your present course with such a 
 staff as you are allowed. 
 
 22657. Chairman. — It is due to you, Mr. Le Pan, to say that after my own examination 
 of the boys, I am satisfied that thej' receive a very useful and good education in the depart- 
 ments which are at present prescribed. Are you disposed to suggest any alterations in 
 the nature of your own duties as master, so as to improve your condition or increase 
 your means of usefulness to the institution? — Not at present; under present circum- 
 stances 1 think both the assistant and myself do as much as can be done in our respective 
 departments. 
 
 Jolm Mallet, Esq., further examined. Jolm Mallet, Esq. 
 
 22658. I hope the Commissioners will excuse me for adding this ohservation to my for- 
 mer testimony. It has been the custom since I became a governor, to give places on the 
 
 Vol. II. ' 2 A
 
 178 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBUN. board to the medical men, who are competent to vote in every matter, as weU as give their 
 
 „ . ~, , „ advice. This is altogether an institution for the education of youth, and it is my opinion 
 
 School of Kinij that the head master might have a seat at the board vpith much more propriety than the 
 
 Charles II.', comuwiili/ medical men; and even if he had not the privilege accorded to him of voting, yet a 
 
 Blue Cmt Hospital Seasonable and convenient opportunity would be afforded to him of offering his advice. 
 
 Therefore I think Mr. Le Fan ought to have a seat at the board. 
 
 Eev. L. A. Le Pan. Rev. L. A. Lc Pan further examined. 
 
 22659. Considering the circumstance of my assistant having been removed from the 
 school, I am almost as well pleased I was not on the board, for it would grieve me to be 
 present while the governors were clipping my assistance, and gradually leaving me alone. 
 
 22660. Chairman. — Following up the question which I last asked you, Mr. Le Pan, I 
 would now inquire whether you think it would be possible for you, if you had adequate 
 assistance iu the schoolroom, to take upon yourself the general control of the institution in 
 the manner referred to in the course of Mr. Mallet's examination ?— A question of that 
 kind so much involves my connexion with officers, who hold other positions in the hospital, 
 that I would almost prefer not to be asked the question. 
 
 22661. Have you any furthei' suggestions to make ? — No. 
 
 Mrs. M. J. Star. Mrs. Margaret Jane Star sworn and examined. 
 
 22662. C/iairman. — Are you the matron of the King's Hospital ? — I am. 
 
 22663. How long have you been in that situation ?— Nine years next November. 
 
 22664. What is the nature of your duties as matron ? — To look after the dietary, the 
 cleanliness of the establishment ; to superintend the servants, and perform aU the duties 
 connected with such an office. 
 
 22665. Have you authority over all the subordinate servants ? — Yes. 
 
 22666. What is the number of them ? — Eight. 
 
 22667. Eight female servants ? — Yes. 
 
 22668. Is so large a number necessary for doing the work of the establishment ? — I 
 should say so. 
 
 22669. The hospital, we have been told, is capable of accommodating from 120 to 130 
 boys ; and if the number was increased to that extent, would you still be able to do the 
 work of the hospital with the present number of servants ? — I should try and do the best 
 I could. 1 should think we would bo able to do it. 
 
 22670. What are the average wages of these female servants? — Seven pounds a-year, 
 and 5s- 6d. weekly ; and a leg of mutton on Sunday. 
 
 22671. Generally speaking, are you able to procure the services of competent servants 
 for these wages ? — Yes ; at present we have excellent servants. 
 
 22672. Is the washing of aU the boys' linen done in the establishment? — Yes. 
 
 22673. How often is the boys' linen changed ? — They get two shirts each in the week, 
 a night-shirt eacli in tlie fortnight, and sheets monthly. 
 
 22'j74. On whom devolves the duty of superintending the cleanliness of the boys' apart- 
 ments ? — On the driUmaster. 
 
 22675. Is it your duty to see that the diilerent rooms and passages are kept clean ? — Yes. 
 
 22676. Including the schoolroom? — Yes. 
 
 22677. It has been mentioned to-day, that the schoolroom is not kept as clean as it might 
 be ? — It is washed only at vacation time. 
 
 22678. Only half-yearly ? — Only during vacation. 
 
 22679. Is it washed during each vacation? — Yes. 
 
 22680. Would there be any difficulty in having it washed once a week, or once a 
 fortnight ? — Not, if Mr. Le Pan could spare time. 
 
 22681. I ihink if such a course was adopted, it would very much conduce to the health 
 of the boys. 
 
 22682. [Rev. L. A. Le Pan. — I have no ol)jcction to the school being washed.] 
 
 22683. There are two nurses employed in connexion with tlie infirmary ? — Yes. 
 
 22684. Are their services generally required ? — Sometimes they are overworked, but at 
 other times they are unemployed. 
 
 22685. Is the infirmary frequently empty? — We have generally one or two boys in it. 
 Wc have one delicate child in tlio house, and tlie doctor thinks it more prudent that he 
 should sleep in the infirmary ; but sometimes we have no one in it. 
 
 22686. I'Lxccpt in tlu; case of some epidemic prevailing, would not one nurse be sufficient 
 to attend the infirmary ? — Our head-nurse would not be able to cleanse it ; though she is 
 an excellent woman. 
 
 22687. Is she an old j)er8on ? — 1 believe she is nearly forty years connected with the 
 in.stitution ; l>ut slio is not what you call an old woman. She is not a girl ; but she was 
 very ill this time twelve months with a ]iaiii in her side. 
 
 22688. Have you any suggestion to make with regard to the domestic arrangements of 
 the hospital, witli a vicnv to their improvement? — I think I once mentioned to Dr. Kyle, the 
 necessity, and he concurred with mo, for providing our servants with some \Aiico to sit in. 
 The only place they have to sit in is where the clothes arc dried ; and our late doctor told 
 me, we never would have servants to live with us for any length of time, who would not 
 ultimately die of consumption.
 
 EVIDENCE. 179 
 
 William C. Kyle, Esq., ll.d., further examined. Dublin. 
 
 2268<). The matron brought this question before me, and I at once saw the desirableness llnKpitai and Free ' 
 of having a different room set aj)art for the servants, from that whei-e the wot clothes were Sc/woh,/ Khvy 
 drying. The steam coming from tliom J saw was very unwholesome. I brought the '"' 'm/kd't'l'i"''"''"^ 
 matter before tlio committee, and also pointed out the room wliich the matron suggested JJ/ue (u,ut lloxitital. 
 for the purpose ; but I was told the arrangement could not be carried out. I forget what William C. Kyle, 
 the objection was to it. ^'*l-' '''••''• 
 
 22690. Is not the number of apartments in the hospital very large ? — It is ; but there 
 was a particular room which the matron pointed out. 
 
 Mrs. Margaret Jane Star further examined. Mrs. M. .1. Star. 
 
 22G91. 1 did not point out any room; but I said there was no jdace unoccupied at the 
 time, except there was one made by cutting off a portion of a small yard. 
 
 22692. Have you any further suggestions to offer ? — I think not. 
 
 22693. I am siu:e the governors will supply the want you speak of, if possible. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 A 2
 
 180 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 OcBLw. Dublin, May 14, 1S5G. 
 
 Present : — The Marquess of Kildaee, Chairman ; Rev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, and 
 
 Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Governors of llie The GOVERNORS OF THE SCHOOLS FOUNDED BY ErASJIUS SmITH, EsQ. — (coutinucd.) 
 
 Hchoots founded by ' •. / 
 
 Erasmus Snikh, Esq. jg]^^^ Barloiu, Esq., sworii and examined. 
 
 ' 22694. Chairman. — It is the intention of the Commissioners, at this examination, to go 
 
 through tlie facts which came out in evidence hefore them, at the different places where 
 the>' hehl courts of inquiry relative to the Erasmus Smith's Schools ; and to ask you to 
 explain these facts seriatim. 
 
 22G95. Rev. Dr. Graves- — In the courts held previous to that held at Ennis, on the 4th 
 of Septem.her, 1855. matters of minor consequence were noticed, and unless the Governors 
 desire to give any information or explanation with regard to them, I would propose to 
 commence our present inquiry by referring to the matters which were bi'ought under our 
 notice at Ennis. — I am satisfied with the course proposed, reserving to myself the liberty 
 of making observations on the other evidence, if I think it necessary. 
 
 22696. It appears to the Commissioners that the examinations which took place at Ennis, 
 developed all the principal questions relating to the administration of the atl'airs of the 
 Board, and that time would bo saved by proceeding at once to the discussion of the matters 
 that were noticed there. Dr. King, in his evidence,* makes reference to the nomination of 
 free pupils, and, in answer to a cjuestiou proposed by the Chairman — •• Who nominates 
 the free pupils?" — " The Board," he says, " have imdertaken to do so lately, within the last 
 year ; but 1 appoint myself, and never refuse any poor man's child that is respectable, or keeps 
 his cliild neat." Being asked how long was it since t!ie Board undertook it, he says — " They 
 have given notice within the last twelve months in the public papers, that all unable to 
 pay should apply to them for admission, but they have not acted on it." Question.—" They 
 have made no nomination? — None whatever; never did, but on one occasion." The 
 Commissioners would desire to receive information as to the steps taken by the Governors 
 with regard to the nomination of free pupils, and the regulations which they have laid down 
 respecting their admission into the grammar schools? — The answer the Governors have to 
 give to that is, that they always understood free pupils were always elected to all the 
 gi'ammar schools. At the same time it appeared to them, partly because there were very 
 few free pupils admitted into our schools, and from otlicr circumstances, that our masters, 
 perhaps, were not as desirous, or as anxious that free pupils shoidd bo admitted, as the 
 Governors were ; and on the 5th of July, 1854 — which you will find is much farther back 
 than Dr. King has stated to the Commissioners — on the 5th of July, 1854, the following 
 order was made by the Governors, in their room in Dublin. I was present and in fact 
 bi'ought forward the subject myself. The subject of the admission of free pupils to the 
 grammar schools was tlien considered, and it was — 
 
 " Ordered — That the committee find it necessary to recommend to the General Board, 
 that the masters of the several grammar schools be required to afford all legitimate facilities 
 to the admission of free pupils into these schools, and to give the necessary information to 
 the parties seeking such admissions, so that the claims upon which same are founded may 
 be placed before the Governors. And the committee furtiier recommend, that advertise- 
 ments, calling the attention of interested persons, be inserted in the local newspapers, and 
 the committee submit a form of advertisement accordingly." Then follows the form of 
 advertisement which has a])peai-ed in the public prints, and which I will now read. — ''The 
 Governors of the schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., hereby give notice to parents 
 residing in and near the towns of Droglieda, Galway, Tipperary, and Ennis, who may be 
 unable to pay for the education of tlicir children, and who may be desirous of having them 
 educated at any of their grammar scliools, in those towns, that liereafter. all ap]ilication6 
 for the admission of free pupils, must be directed to tlie Governors, at tlieir oiiice. 11, Kildare- 
 strcet, I)ul>lin." 'J'liat recommendation was brought before the Board on the same day, 
 and I will now read a copy of tlieir order from our board book : — " The report made this 
 day by the standing committee, and which is entered on their proceedings in reference to 
 the admi.ssion of free pupils to their grammar schools, was then read and agreed to, and 
 the board directed same to be fully carried into effect." This order was sent also to the 
 masters of our schools, and they were informed at the same time, that it was not the idea, 
 nor intention at all, that they should not themselves recommend to the Governors free 
 pupils, but we wished to ascertain every person who sougiit admission as a free pupil, or 
 who the applicants were, and that the a])plication should come directly to the Governors. 
 The practice of the Governors has been to apply to the master, stating that an a])plication 
 has been made, and to ask him whether he knew any reason why the application should 
 not be attended to. Wo have received no child into Ennis, but we have into tlie other 
 grammar schools, and 1 think, with one exception, we never refused a free pu[)il. Our 
 wish and intention was to give every facility for the a<lmi.ssion of free pu[)ils. 
 
 22697. May I ask what were the grounds upon which that single a])plication was 
 rejected ? — Admission was sought into the Galway school for a child who was the son of 
 the turnkey of the gaol, and the Governors having applied to a person in (ialway in tlie first 
 instance, were advised that on the whoh^ it was better not to a<lmit the child. This discretion 
 ■was exercised upon a report made by Mr. D'Arcy, the Vicar of Galway. We applied to him, 
 
 * Eviilcnco, ?,?M\.
 
 EVIDENCE 181 
 
 not knowing wlictlier it was a pi'opcr case or not, and liaving received liis answer, wo J)ubmn. 
 
 declined receivinc; tlic c'liild. „,, ,, , ,, 
 
 2'2()9S. I nnderstood Mr. llallowell, the master ot tlio grammar school at (jalwaj, to state, Sc/wulsfwindal/ji/ 
 if not to complain, tliat the Governors nominated free pnpils there, without holding any Emxmun SmliU, Esq. 
 connnunication with him. Was that the case? — I am ignorant of the evidence given by John Barlow, Es^. 
 Mr. llallowell with reference to the Galway school. 
 
 22(i99. The evidence of Air. llallowell was given at the])uljlic court held here in Duhlin ? 
 — We liave not received a copy of that ; and 1 should mention that what the Commissioners 
 engaged to do. was to give us the evidence that they received on their circuits. 
 
 22700. Aly question had reference to a matter of fact — the connnunication that took place 
 between you and tiie master of the grannnar school at Galway: and I have menticnicd that 
 1 understood him to complain (but my recollection may not be accurate), that the (ioveriiors 
 had nominated free pupils without communication with him ?-^I am not aware of that fact, 
 positively, but I believe it occurred in the case of a boy named Leonard. It is not, however, 
 at all probable that the Governors would attend to the recommendation of the master of 
 the school, for if we had made inquiries, and thought the child ought to be admitted, we 
 would insist on tiie adnnssiun of that child. 
 
 22701. In the case of pupils whoso circumstances seem to you to warrant tlieir admission, 
 have you been in the habit of directing an examination as to their attainments or cajjacities 
 to be instituted by the masters? — None whatever: where parents have expressed a strong 
 anxiety to have their child admitted into our granimar schools all we required to know 
 was that the child was competent, and further, that tlie parents were not in a condition 
 to pay for the education ot the child. I think that is our genera! practice. 
 
 22702. Under the ciiarter, the Governors have the power of placing twenty free pupils 
 in each of the three original foundation grammar schools ; and besides tliat, the charter 
 provides that the children of the tenants on Erasmus Smith's estates shall all be free, no 
 matter what their number may be. Has the case of the freedom of the tenants' children 
 been brought under the notice of the tenants themselves by any advertisement ? — I am not 
 aware that it has been. 
 
 22703. Do you know whether the records of the Board manifest the exercise by 
 the Governors, to any extent, of this right of placing free pupils in the grammar schools? 
 — I think that matter was left very much, if not entirely, in the hands of the masters of the 
 grammar schools, until the period I have just alluded to. 1 am only speaking, of course, 
 for my own time as a Governor, for I have not searched the records so as to be able to 
 state what the ancient practice was ; but I am sure, since 1 became a Governor, what 1 have 
 stated is the fact. 
 
 22704. I have taken the jiains to search into the early history of the charity, and I find, 
 I may say, no notice, for many years, of an exercise of this power by the Governors; 
 hut perhaps you or your ofEcers may have obtained more accurate information than I have ? 
 — I am not aw^are that they have ; I shoidd state that the matter, in July, 1854, was brought 
 before the Governors by me, from an apprehension that there was not that freedom of 
 entry for free jnipils into our schools which it was desirable there should be. I might 
 have been mistaken, but that was the impression of the Governors who concurred with 
 me, and on that impression they acted. 
 
 22705. In the returns which the masters of the grammar schools furnish half-yearly, 
 they are directed to specify the number of free pupils in the school ? — They are. 
 
 22700. Do you know how long it has been customary to receive these half-yearly 
 reports? — 1 was elected a Governor in 1839, and during that period I am sure it lias been 
 the practice to receive them ; 1 cannot answer for any thing further back than that. 
 
 22707. So far as 1 can ascertain from your books, these returns from the masters of the 
 grammar schools were not ordered till tlic year 1795? — 1 cannot say; I am sure you are 
 right, but I can only answer from 1839. 
 
 22708. Has any application been ever made to the Governors to receive pupils to be 
 boarded as well as to be taught free in your grammar schools? — Never, until very lately; 
 I think the Governors had an application of this description from one of their tenants, a 
 man named Barrett, in Galway ; it did not appear to us that his circumstances entitled 
 him to it, but wo were clearly of opinion that we had no power to grant it. 
 
 22709. Did he state the legal grounds on which he claimed admission for his son as a free 
 hoarder? — I have never seen j\lr. Barrett ; we had no interview with him at all, but we had 
 a correspondence, and I believe in that correspondence Mr. Barrett put forward his claim; 
 I am not even sure of that fact, but F am qtnte sure that if he did his claims were not 
 recognised. It appears, from what 1 have just heard from Mr. Hamilton, that Jlr. Barrett 
 did put forward his claims to him and Mr. Thorp, but they never brought them before the 
 Board. 
 
 22710. 1 have before me the evidence of Mr. John Samuel Barrett, who brought his 
 case forward at Galway. lie said* — '• I had an intervicAV with the registrar and secretary, 
 the Kcv. Mr. Hamilton, and, on a second occasion, with him and Mr. Thorp, the assistant 
 secretary. I wished to make an application to the board, under the charter, to get a free 
 education for my son ; 1 said that as a tenant I thought I was entitled to it ; they both 
 asked me, on the second occasion, was I able to pay for the education of my son ; I said 
 yes, but that I considered I was en.titled to it, and that I had occasion to read the charter 
 over, and saw I was perfectly entitled to it ; and I explained this to the registrar and 
 secretary, that, though able to pay, I wished to avail myself of the privileges under the 
 
 * Evidence, 51)69.
 
 182 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DiTBLiK. charter. Mr. Hamilton, on the first occasion refused, and said they could not do it at all, 
 
 that the funds would not enable them. On the second occasion I pressed it more closely." — 
 
 slhook founded h'l" -^ I ^an Say is that that interview was never brought before the board, but I have very 
 
 Eragmus'Smiih, Ks,j. Uttle hesitation in saying, if the application had been made, it would have been refused. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 2271 1. Though, of course, 1 do not ask you to construe the charter, or to discuss purely 
 
 legal questions, 1 must ask the grounds of the opinion which you have just now given ? — 
 I think that our grammar schools, so far as 1 understand the charter, were intended 
 to give daily instruction to as many children in the town in which the school stood, 
 or the neighbourhood of that town, as could be fairly expected or given ; I have always 
 understood that the master was entitled, if he had boarders, to the receipts : tliat is, 
 making whatever due allowance he ought to make for the salaries paid by the Gover- 
 nors to him and the teachers — any profit derived from boarders was his ; and without 
 going into the question whether Mr. Barrett was or was not in circumstances to pay for 
 the education of his own child, or children, which 1 cannot say he is more than by repu- 
 tation, I think, from what 1 said, tjiat the Governors could not accede to his request. As 
 to the question whether they ought to do so or not I do not give any opinion. 
 
 22712. Mr. Barrett, before us at Galway, urged his case by alleging passages of the 
 charter on which he grounded his claim — passages in which it is stated that the revenues 
 were granted to the Governors for the maintenance of the schoolmasters and scholars ; he 
 also referred to a passage in which the surplus revenues were appropriated to the mainten- 
 a'ice of more, and other scholars ? — It must he apparent to the Commissioners that, sup- 
 posing Mr. Barrett Iiad a right, notwithstanding his being in good circumstances, to have his 
 child placed in the school, so would lorty others, perhaps, in the same neighbourhood, and 
 the same number in Drogheda. so that the funds of the Governors, if they were to be 
 applied to the maintenance of these cliildren, would not be equal to the support of such 
 a number ; it would be utterly out of our power to pay the sum of money required, even 
 were we disposed to do it ; but until jMr. Barrett raised this question we had never even 
 heard of it. 
 
 227 13. I may presume that if Mr. Barrett's application had been regularly brought before 
 the board, and that he had alleged these pa.ssages in the charter to which 1 have referred 
 as the grounds upon which he rested that application, the Governors would have satisfied 
 themselves in a regular manner, and obtained a legal opinion as to whether they were 
 bound to furnish board as well as teachins: to the children of the tenants on the estates ? — 
 I have no doubt they would have given the very best consideration to it, and probably 
 have taken the course that you suggest ; but the question has never been brought regularly 
 before us. 
 
 22714. I took very great pains to inquire into the matter, and having looked carefully 
 into the early history ol the charity, I found no traces whatever of children having been 
 maintained in the schools? — Never. In old times it would be utterly out of the question, 
 though our funds are now larger than when these scliools were established. 
 
 227 1 5. Has the attention of the Governors been at all directed to the word " maintenance" 
 in connexion with the schools and scholars? — It never has ; but I would press on the Com- 
 missioners that until now, that application of Mr. Barrett was never brought before us ; 
 so that the question which you have just put to me did not arise. 
 
 22716. Can you inform us whether Mr. Barrett's application was in writing? — When I 
 read the evidence as to what took place, I asked Mr. Hamilton, and his reply to me was, 
 that the application was made when Mr. Barrett, Mr. Thorp, and he were sitting around 
 the fire. 
 
 22717. [Rev. Hugh Hamilton. — It was never made in writing.] 
 
 22718. On the same occasion Mr. Barrett stated that Mr. Hamilton alleged as a reason 
 why this application should not be granted, that the funds would not enable the Governors 
 to grant it; that the expenses of the establishment alone wore £1,200 a year: can you 
 offer any explanation of this? — It is quite out of the (juestion that the expenses could 
 amount to that sum ; I suppose, excluding Mr. Hamilton's .salary, as registrar and inspec- 
 tor, that our expenses in l)ul)lin cannot be more than between £300 and £400 a-year. 
 
 22719- Does tliat inclu(l(! the salaries of the officers'? — Not the salary of tlie inspector, 
 but it docs include tliat of Mr. Thorp. 
 
 22720. The words used by Mr. Barrett were,* " I stated I thought it very odd the funds 
 were not sufficient to do so, as I thought and lieard they had somewhere about £.5,000 a- 
 year. It was then he mentioned tlie expenses were commensurate witlitiiat: £1,200 
 for the house ; and their law agents took a great deal of it, and losses by teniftits, wliich he 
 enumerated at the time, amounting to over £2,000.'' You have given an explanation as to 
 that statement respecting the house expenditure, contradicting it in fact'? — I may answer, 
 that the entire amount of our l)nl)lin expenses, including Mr. Hamilton's salary, docs not 
 amount to £600 a-year. 
 
 22721. Now with regard to the allegation that "the law agents take a great deal of it," 
 what exjdanation do you offer? — Our accounts show every si.xjience that we liave ever jiaid 
 to our law agents ; but I can state for the inform.'ition of tlie Commissioners, and I am glad 
 to have an opportunity of repeating what I said at my ])revious examination, on the 7th of 
 December last, it was then erroneously given in evidence, from confusion and mistake, by 
 our assistant secretary, the day before I was examined, that there was no record kept by 
 the Governors of .any payment niadc to their law agents, except what appeared in the 
 block, or the book of the bank. The Commissioners will recollect, before 1 left the room 
 
 * ETidcncc, b'ii;>.
 
 EVIDENCE. 18S 
 
 that evening, I pressed to be examined on tliat point. They did liindly examine me, and Dublin. 
 
 I think I satisfied tli<( Coinniissioncrs, wliorc these sums were to be found, in our acc(;unts, y,, ,, ~ — 
 which were before tliem for many weeks, and beioro tlieir secretary and accountant ; I Sclimls^fuunded Im'^ 
 pointed out then to the secretary those items which were paid to the solicitors of the Erasmus' Smith, Esq. 
 board, and which were said not to be in our accounts at all. They amounted to above Joim Karlow, Ksq. 
 £1,300, and were clearly entered in our accounts. 
 
 22722. I tliink it was stated on that occasion that that bill of costs accumulated in a 
 period of twelve or tliirtecn years? — Yes, at least thirteen years. Some very iieavy Chancery 
 suits, in which the Governors were enf>-aged, were included in these costs. 
 
 22723. The bills of costs were not laid before the Commissioners? — No, they were not, 
 by mistake ; but you can have them, all taxed by the proper officer of the court. 
 
 22724. I think, Mr. Uarlovv, there is some misunderstanding as to the way in which 
 these costs are said to have appeared in the accounts. I did not understand that they 
 wei'e not entered in any account-book of the Governors, but only that they were not 
 entered in the ledger? — Yes; but our assistant secretary stated in his e.xamination, they 
 were only to be found in the block of the drafts on the Bank of Ireland ; that evening I 
 stated to the Commissioners what I state now, that they arc entered regularly in our 
 accounts, and I pointed them out tliat day to the Secretary of the Commission. 
 
 22725. \_Secretary . — The way they appeared in the accounts was simply thus: — the total 
 bill of costs, when jjaid, appeared in tlie easli-book, luider the registrar's account, vouched 
 by Mr. l>arlow ; but there was no account of the law costs furnished from time to time, 
 when they became due, and entered in the ledger. The ledger did not contain a single 
 entry of law costs.] 
 
 22726. I did not mean to say to the Commissioners that this ledger was regularly kept, 
 because I said exactly the contraiy. What I intended to convey was, that we had our 
 accounts regularly kept ; that I had audited them myself ; that I made inquiries to see that 
 every shilling returned as part of the income of the Governors had been received ; and 
 that every shilling expended, was also to be found in our accounts. I not only stated tliat, 
 but I wish to have the opportunity of repeating it now, as it will be in the recollection of 
 the Commissioners, that no ])art of my evidence, on the 7th December, has gone before 
 the public ; it unfortunately happening that the gentlemen of the press were all that day 
 engaged at a trial in Green-street, which was called "the Bible-burning trial." I then 
 stated that I regularly audited these accounts, and that I not only did that, but that every 
 voucher amounting to hundreds in the year, since I became treasurer, would be found 
 initialed by me, in red ink, and these vouchers were that day on the table of the Commis- 
 sioners. 
 
 22727. The only other allegation which remains to be mentioned, as brought before us 
 by Mr. Barrett, at that time, was with reference to remission of arrears of rent, which he 
 stated amounted to £2,000 ; we were aware of that fact : the statement has reference to 
 abatements made to the tenants on the southern estates? — It has reference in part to the 
 western estates, but there was a greater arrear on the southern estates. 
 
 22728. Was there a larger amount than £2,000 remitted to tenants on the southern 
 estates? — There was; I have the particulars here if you wish for them. 
 
 22729. We are not in a condition, at present, to go into matters of account. The next 
 point noticed by Dr. King, of which I would ask an explanation from the Governors has 
 reference to the repairs of the schoolhouse. He says* — " 1 have on various occasions aslccd 
 the Governors to do it, but I have been obliged to do it throughout myself, after the first 
 setting in order, when I came ; between taxes and poor-rates, and repairs, my whole salary 
 is swallowed up, in that way. The rates are very heavy ; upwards of ten shillings in the 
 pound last year." I believe the Governors laid down the principle when the salaries of 
 the masters of the grammar schools were raised from 100 marks a-year to £lOO a-year, 
 that the expenses of keeping the buildings in repair should be thi-own on the masters, not- 
 withstanduig that principle having been laid down, as it was found to press at times with 
 considerable severity on the masters ; the Governors occasionally voted grants of money 
 for the repairs of the schoolhouses. What is the actual practice with regard to repairs at 
 present? — The practice, since I became a Governor, and for a long time previously, I believe, 
 but certainly from 1839, has been, when a new master is appointed, to put the schoolhouse 
 in proper order to receive him, at the cost of the Governors. In the year 1834 Dr. King 
 was appointed to the Ennis school, and at that time, or perhaps the year after, the Gover- 
 nors expended on repairing his house £1,1 88 5s. They have since the year 1840, to the 
 present, paid £96 ISs. 9fZ., for further repairs, and we object to laying out more than that. 
 We have laid out on Drogheda school a sum of £805 9s. %d. ; and we do require the master, 
 after the first outlay, to keep the house in repair ; we never intended to pay the whole, or any 
 thing like the expenses attending the repairs of the schoolhouses. Dr. King has received 
 more from us, for liimself and his teachers, than the master of any other grammar school. 
 Previous to the year 1843 we paid in round numbers £300, for himself and his teachers, 
 and since that we have paid him £275 a-year. We also gave him, in consideration of his 
 heavy rates and expenses, a gratuity of £50 in the year 1854 ; but we never wished to make 
 a schoolmaster independent of his scholars, or what he should receive from them. 
 
 22 i 30. What means do you take to ascertain that the houses are kept in repair? — We used 
 to have certificates every year from the clergymen of the town, or from competent persons. 
 
 22731. Does not the charter contemplate the expenditure of the revenues of the charity 
 upon the schoolhouses ? — We have expended, as I have stated to you, £1,188 on the Ennis 
 
 * Evidoacc, 3867.
 
 184 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 UtDLix. school ; and in 1S42, £S05 9?- Sd. on the Drogheda school ; and on tlie Galway school since 
 
 Mr. Hallowell's appointment in 1848, we have expended between £300 and £400. 
 
 SchiioirfrnZde^ l!'/ Having done so, wo think it is a wholesome practice to insist upon llie master, as long as 
 
 Erasmvi'Siiiith, Esij. he derivos benefit from the house, keeping it in repair afterwards. I do not mean to say 
 
 Jolm Birlow, E'^. that if a roof was blown off a house, or if any other heavy e.xpenditure was required, the 
 
 Governors would not enter into it ; I am very certain tlicy would ; hut as to petty repairs 
 
 after the house has been put in order, we think it right and proper that the master should 
 
 be required to do them. 
 
 22732. This was the practice of the Governors from a very early period. At the close 
 of tlie seventeenth century I find a minute to this effect : — " The masters to keep in good 
 repair their own schools and houses, having so received them, except the roofs and walls 
 and incidental damages caused by casualties that could not be avoided ■-"' — I have uever 
 referred to tliat minute, but tlie ])racticc is as I liave stated. I should say that a great 
 part of our arrangements has been handed down to us from board to board ; so that when 
 a new Governor is appointed ho finds a great many things in practice, and unless he 
 disapproves of them he follows out that practice. That is pretty much the way with the 
 present Governors. 
 
 22733. However, with the exception of the roofs and walls tliere is no distinct recogni- 
 tion of any other practice? — I have just stated if any heavy e.xjienditure was required it 
 would certainl}- be undertaken by the Governors ; but petty repairs 
 
 22734. Of roofs and walls? — Of roofs and walls ; we do require the master to do them. 
 Whetlier that practice is consistent with the charter or not, I will not say, but it has been 
 our practice. 
 
 22735. This matter, as to the paynient of the expenses of repairs by the masters, is 
 closely connected with tlie amount of tlie masters' salaries. Dr. King on this occasion 
 stated that his salary was swallowed up by certain expenses. The original salary contemplated 
 h\' the cliarcer was £G6 \os. 4d. a-ycar ; tliat has been raised to £lOO a-year. Does 
 it not appear that the salary of £GG 1 3s. 4d. in the time of Cliarlcs II. denoted a higher 
 position in society than a salary of £ 1 00 a-year in the jiresent day ? — Certainly, I think 
 it did. 
 
 22736. And do you not think tliat a salary of £G6 13s. 4d. in the time of Charles II. 
 ■was intended to make the position of tlic master of one of tho.se schools one of comfort 
 and honourable independence ; so that the Governors might be able to secure tlie services 
 of persons of high character and position ? — 1 think it is not good that the master should 
 be independent of his scholars. I think it is much better that he should be obliged to 
 work; certainly the Governors have regarded the matter in this light. They think if the 
 masters had large endowments tliey would be careless wdietlier they had many or few 
 pupils; but that £60 13.s. 4c/. has been raised to £300, in round numbers, in the case of 
 Dr. King. He has at this moment for himself and his teachers — of course he does not 
 put the whole of it into his pocket — £278 a-year; and initil, I may say, the famine, we 
 paid him about £300 a-year. In fact, Dr. King has more reason to be grateful to the 
 Governors than any other teacher we have ; and 1 think he has shown less gratitude. He 
 lias complained that tlie Governors — and I do not speak of Dr. King in any angry spirit — 
 refuse him ordiuaiy assistance ; but his complaints are considered by the Governors to be 
 absolut ely gro u n d less. 
 
 22737. According to the view you take of the matter these grammar schools ai"e private 
 schools sulisidised by your board. They are rather schools of the masters who are 
 assisted and maintained in them by a small salary, and by grants for occasional repairs, 
 than public schools belonging to the Govei-nors, and altogether administered by you, 
 and under your direction, for public purposes? — I tliink that is very much the case. I 
 tliink tliat we put our teachers into a very good position. AVc give them excellent houses, 
 tve give them all the fees, and we give them ground very often and a certain salary. We 
 do not intend they should bo independent of their .scholars; and in Dr. King's case we 
 give him near £300 ; and I think if he has that, a good house, and ground attached to it, 
 that lie is very well oft". I would lurther say that tlie view you take is conformed to by 
 the practice of the Governors ; for although they have tlieir English schools regularly 
 and annually inspected, tliey do not think it necessary to inspect the grammar sciiools. 
 They leave them to tiie control of the masters themselves, conceiving that tliey ought to 
 have a greater interest in their welfare than they have. 
 
 22738. You must not understand me as conunittiiig myself to the opinion that the 
 Governors take the right view of this matter? — Oh, no. 
 
 22739. My own view as to the best course to be taken witli reference to those grammar 
 schools was rather tiie reverse. I undoubtedly supposed that they were as much the 
 Governors' schools as the English schools; and I consider it desirable that they should do 
 every thing that their funds enable them to do to secure tin; most i)erfect elliciency of 
 those grammar schools ; and, amongst other things — exactly as you noticed yourself — 
 maintain a vigor(nis and constant ins]jection of them, in compliance with the terms of the 
 charter, which directs that " the ushers and schoolmasters shall be from time to time visited 
 and approved of in the manner hereinafter stated." Then the charter goes on to say after- 
 wards liow that inspection is to be conducted. It gives power to the Governors, or 
 any seven of them, to visit, order, ])unish. or displace the schoolmasters, ushers, and 
 scholars, moiniiers, and oilicers, of the said schools, and every one of them ; and to order, 
 reform, and redress all and every the disorders, and misdemeanors, offences, and abuses 
 in the persons aforesaid, and to censure, suspend, dei)rive, and displace the said school-
 
 EVIDENCE. 185 
 
 masters, uslicis, &c. Tlio cliartcr not only gave; you these powers, but it hindered any ])h(li.v. 
 
 Otiier jiersons wliatcvcr — as the Governors are perlectly well aware — from interfcrinf;: ,. 
 
 witli your visitoriul authority ? — Yes ; we v.-erc quite aware wo liad tliesc i)o\vcrs ; but I ^ '''■ /"'i'^™"'-] 'if/'" 
 
 1 11 xi 11 \i -111- 1 •' ,, Sitliuulx fi)umk(l by 
 
 do not say wliethor they could or not be exercised. We were also quite aware we had Erasmus' Smitli, TClq. 
 control over the niasteis and the regulation of the scliools ; and we would e.xercisc it if wo .j,,liii UmiIow, Ksq. 
 M-cre obliged necessarily to do so. I must, however, make out; remark ujton what 
 Dr. (iravcs lias said with regard to our visitatorial jjowim-s. If it be sup])osed by the Com- 
 missioners tliat, when they were originally appointed, we had any i'celing but one, which was 
 that wc had no power of allowing the visitation of these schools to be tran.sferrcd to other 
 parties, I can assure them they are much mistaken. We never had the slightest reluctance 
 to allow them to visit ; and the course we felt bound to take was dictated by a sense of duty. 
 
 22740. Tlie words of the charter seem t(j i^e very clear and strong? — 1 may also add. 
 we gave peremptory orders, on the passing of the Act of Parliament, to every one of our 
 officers and persons under our charge, to give every information most accurately and 
 willingly to the Commissioners. 
 
 22741. We are bound to notice this matter of inspection, because at the court held at 
 Ennis it was actually alleged, as a matter of complaint, that there was no inspection. 
 " Their inspector,'' Dr. Kii'g states, " does not attend the classical schools." And when 
 ho is asked " Do tlu'y exercise no kind of control," he says, " None over us, whatever, 
 except the exhibition examination can be called a control, Avhich is performed by the gentle- 
 men of Trinity College"? — I think that is going a little too far. I am quite free to admit 
 we do not inspect the Ennis school ; but 1 cannot admit that we did not, or do not, 
 exercise control over it. 
 
 22742. At the same court, Dr. Cullinan, in his evidence, comidained of the want of 
 inspection, and alleged that the neglect of inspection involved a vi(jlation of the charter ? — - 
 I admit we do not inspect ; but as to saying we do not control or attend to the regulation of 
 these schools, I may in reply state we require half-yearly' returns from the masters, and we 
 receive them, and they arc regularly entered on our minutes, and will be found there. 
 
 22743. But you could hardl}- assert that those half-yearly returns would bo a sufficient 
 substitute for an efficient inspection, if you take the view which 1 stated just now of the 
 nature of the schools — that is. if you snpjjose them to be schools of the; Governors, to be 
 maintained in an efficient state under their superintendence and direction ? — I can only 
 give the answer I gave before — that we really do think that the masters themselves have 
 such a direct interest in having good schools, that to gentlemen of their position we may 
 leave their management. I do not mean to say that it would not be better if another course 
 were adopted, but there has been no complaint made to us upon the subject; we found 
 the practice in existence, and we continued it. 
 
 22744. The returns you allude to clearly do not make amends for the want of in.spcction. 
 I have an instance recorded in the minutes of the standing committee, which shows that : 
 namely, a notice that a very small number of scholars was returned as having been in 
 attendance at one of the grammar schools. On this the master was called on to give the 
 fullest explanation; and what was subsei]ucntly done? An apjilication was made to the 
 Archbishop of Cashel, the Archbisliop of Tuam, and the Bisho]) of Killaloe, to inspect this 
 school, proving that those returns arc not suflicicnt, unless there is an inspection to check 
 them? — ^lay 1 ask in what year that occurred ? 
 
 22745. It is recorded in No. 3 of your standing committee hook. — The Archbi.shop of Tuam 
 being mentioned, it must be a long time ago ; but I do not wish to be understood by the 
 ('ommissioners as maintaining that the schools would not be better if they were inspected. 
 
 22746. The masters of the schools themselves stated that they would wish their schools 
 to be inspected? — All 1 can say is they never asked for an inspection. 
 
 22747. They stated that an efficient inspection would be an encouragement to them? 
 
 They made no such suggestion to the Governors, or I think they should have it ; they gave 
 the Commissioners a great deal of information they never gave us. 
 
 22748. I liave taken a great deal of pains to inquire into this matter of inspection, and 
 have read through a great part of the minute books ; I found recorded in them but one 
 case of visitation which actually took place under the charter — that is not the inspection 
 to which I have just alluded, conducted by the Archbishops of Cashel and of Tuam, and 
 the Bishop of Killaloe. These Governors did not themselves hold the inspection, they 
 deputed ])orsons to inquire, and therefore it was not an inspection under the cliarter, the 
 persons in(iuiring not having visitatorial powers. I found but one formal visitation, that is 
 in the case of the Drogheda school, held by the treasurer, the Trovost of Trinity College, 
 Dublin, and Dr. .Tohn Cogliill, in the year ItiSO; but perhaps your officers may know of 
 more recent visitations under the charter? — I think not; J know of no visitation of the 
 kind. We have frequently had interviews with the masters at our invitation. 
 
 22749. Even within your own experience of the working of the board you have seen cases 
 where schools appeared not to be in a thriving or efficient state ; I do not wish more dis- 
 tinctly to si)ecify them, as they must recur to your recollection ? — I recollect the case of 
 Dr. Eaton, in wliich we threatened a visitation if he did not resign, and he did resign. 
 
 22750. That fact jiroved that even to threaten a visitation would produce a good eifect? 
 — I have no doubt at all about it. 
 
 22751. And since that time you have seen one of your grammar schools sinking into a 
 very inefficient state in spite of the half-yearly returns ? — That is Tipperary ? 
 
 22752. Yes. — We never had a good school in Tipperary ; there are a great many causes 
 that ]irevent our schools flourishing. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 B
 
 186 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRITLAND, COMMISSION 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 77ie Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded ht/ 
 JErasmvs Smith, Esq. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 22753. Of late the school has hcen in a very inefficient state ; but at one period the 
 Tipperary school was managed with great success, and numbered as many as ninety pupils? 
 — Yes; but it was not so much the fiishion to send our children to England then as it is now. 
 
 22T-54. Do you not think that this school might liave been brought into a more efficient 
 state of late years if there had been a visitation? — I do ; but I may be mistalvcn. I tliinlc 
 there are a great many unfavourable influences which probably it would not be easy to 
 counteract. 
 
 22755. AYere those causes to which you refer beyond your control? — I think so. What 
 has taken place in Ireland for some years past has not tended to increase the number of 
 pupils in our schools; I think that Tipperary, particularly, is not a part of the country in 
 wliich we might expect to have many pupils, considering the progress that education has 
 made, and the facilities which are now afforded for obtaining education compared with what 
 there were at the time you speak of, when ninety scholars were in tlie school ; it was hard 
 to get from one part of the country to the other, now it is much easier ; but I do not wish 
 to be understood as saying that there should be no visitation of this school. 
 
 227oii. Another point referred to by Dr. King in his evidence has relation to the grant 
 of medals by the Governors. He states that the Governors gave silver medals every six 
 months, to the best answerers in the school, and then he says*—" But I was obliged to dis- 
 continue the giving of these medals, because they would not give them to me on any other 
 plan than this — one for science, one for classics, one for English, and the other for f 'rench ; 
 and as that would completely upturn my plan, which is to carry on all these branches together, 
 I was obliged, after one or two efforts, to give those medals up ; for one boy would work 
 for mathematics, another for French, and so on, and the other business was neglected : in 
 fact, they are not at all liberal." Other masters in giving evidence on the same subject 
 before the Commissioners, have stated that they were left a discretionary power in the 
 award of these medals: can you state whether there is in the books any minute laying down 
 regulations as to the distribution of these prizes? — I am not sure as to there being any minute 
 in the books on the subject ; but I can state what took place : 1 perfectly recollect that 
 before those medals were given. Dr. M'Kay, who was then schoolmaster of Drogheda, an 
 excellent teacher, and other classical masters, were asked to suggest to the Governors the 
 best plan of granting those medals ; all our masters, with the exception of Dr. King, stated 
 that they tbouglit the medals should be given as we gave them, that is, for each branch of 
 learning, Latin and Greek and so on ; but Dr. King did not adopt that view, lie took our 
 medals for two or three years ; then, because we did not accede to his request — in fact, give 
 liim a separate discretion from what the other masters had — ho said lie would not have them 
 any longer. We did not decline to give them, nor did we impose upon Iiim any restrictions 
 which were not imposed upon our other schoolmasters ; but having consulted them, and 
 found the majority were in favour of the plan we adopted, we did not think it necessary 
 to take his. However the matter was not pressed on us very much ; there was but one 
 application, I believe, from Dr. King; and if he had waited a little time, and again brought 
 the question forward, we miglit not have interfered with him, but let liim do as he pleased 
 with respect to the distribution of tliose medals. 
 
 22757. Thei-e would be an easy mode of arranging the matter — that is, allowing prizes 
 for the general proficiency of his scholars, whilst there were medals for special subjects. — ■ 
 No doubt ; but neither that nor any other mode of arranging the distribution of medals 
 in Dr. King's school was brought before us. 
 
 22758. I understand you to say, that this plan of giving medals for those separate 
 subjects was absolutely imposed upon the masters in the different schools. 1 can say with 
 confidence that the evidence of Mr. Hallowell was to the effect, that he was allowed a 
 discretionary power. — I think he had not a discretionary power. I give my answer from 
 memory, but I think I am correct in wliat I have stated. 
 
 22759. I asked Air. Ilallowcll.t " Has tliis system (that is, of examination) been instituted 
 since you became master, or did you find it in operation? — Tlie medal system was adopted 
 when I was master in Droglieda ; and on my going to Galway, I found that no medals 
 ■were ever distributed. I applied for them, and the request was granted. The ,sul)jects 
 on which they were to be given were left to my own decision." I then went on to say — " This 
 question, relative to the awarding of medals to pupils in the schools under tlie Board of 
 Erasmus Smith, came under consideration in the course of the inquiry held at Ennis, and 
 a rule was laid down there by the (Jovernors, tiiat medals were to bo given in a certain 
 number of courses — in classics, Englis^li, modern languages, and science." Jlr. Hallowell 
 then answered — '• They never laid down any rule for me ; 1 ajiplied to them for informa- 
 tion as to wluit course they wished tliem to be given in, and tiic answer I received was, 
 that the matter would be left to my own discretion."" — What Mr. Hallowell lias said with 
 respect to Drogheda school is correct, and it may be that thus the medals were not given 
 in Galway for some time after; but as to his having a discretionary power to distriijuto those 
 medals as he jtleascd, all I can say is, 1 have no recollection that he had, nor do 1 think 
 he had. lie may have been mistaken about the matter, or I may make a mistake. I 
 omitted to make an observation when the Connnissioncr was speaking about the Ennis 
 school, with reference to a portion of Dr. King's evidence, in wliich he stated that he did 
 not make certain applications, liccause ho found it very dillicult to get his salary ever paid 
 by the Governors. I will just read for you the dates at which his salary was paid, since 
 his ai)pointment in 1850, and when it became due. He was ]mA on the 27th November; 
 1850, the salary which fell due on the 1st ; in 1851, on May the l!)th and November !8tli, 
 
 * Evidence, 3907. t Evidence, 20301.
 
 EVIDENCE. 187 
 
 in 1852, on May 14th and November I'Jtli ; in 1853, May IGtli and November 10th; in Dublin. 
 1854, May 4tb "and Novcm1)cr 4th ; in 1S,55, Jlav 5th and November 22nd ; tlic salaries „, „ ^ . 
 
 , 'i <. , ,. ,1 ,• ii ii -11 1 -1 ^1 i>i J. c M ii J lie Uovcrnors of the 
 
 due on the nrst of these respective niontliH. He will be paid on the 2l8t oi May tlic Schools faimded Inj 
 salary due on the first of the present montli. These are the payments made by tlie Erasmus' Smith, Esq. 
 Governors of wliich Dr. King complains, and I must say that his other complaints are of John IJurlow, Esq. 
 like value. 
 
 22TG0. lie complains tliat you do not pay liis poor rates ; I su])posc that generally you 
 do not pay i)Oor rates and otiicr ta.xes? — \Vc do not pay poor rates. 
 
 2270 1. Do you adhere to tiie same practice in the case of all tlic grammar schools? — 
 We pay them in Drogheda, because tlie salary there is much smaller tlian Dr. King's. 
 
 22762. Has not the salary been raised from 100 marks to £100 in Drogheda? — It has, 
 but all the payments made to Drogheda do not equal tliosc paid to Dr. King. 
 
 227G3. Docs not tlio charter warrant the payment of salaries to ushers as well as to 
 masters ?— It gives us tlie power to do so. 
 
 22704. In fact, it directs that wherever tliere are forty pupils in a school, there should 
 be an usher, who is entitled to a certain salary ? — But at Ennis the master is not entitled 
 to what he receives. 
 
 22765. Dr. King in his evidence referred to a legacy of £10 left by Chief Justice 
 Pattison to the school: did the Governors make inquiry for the purpose of ascertain- 
 ing wiictlier they were entitled to it ? — I have no recollection of such a legaey being left. 
 
 227GG. Dr. King says* — " I addressed the board on the subject, and they referred it to 
 their law adviser ; and the answer I received after a length of time, and one or two or 
 three applications, was, that the matter was involved in an ine.\plicable mystery, although 
 I sent them a transcript of the will ?" — I know nothing of it. 
 
 227G7. I shall pass now to another topic brouglit before the Commissioners by Dr. King — 
 the matter of superannuation allowances. He was asked by Mr. Hughes to give the names 
 of the masters who had been pensioned by the Governors, and he mentioned the name of 
 the Rev. John Needham, saying that he received his full salary for some years ; he was 
 master of Drogheda scliool. " How long," he is tlien asked,! " was he master of Drogheda 
 school ?' — Well, I suppose, sixteen or eighteen years. I was under him sixteen years, 
 and there was a master named Eaton, I understand, who was for a few years — five or six 
 years — at Galway, and did not at all succeed, obtained it, I believe ; I do not know it. 
 Were you acquainted with Mr. Needliam? — Very well. What was his state of health when 
 pensioned? — 1 do not know ; he looked very well to me. Are you aware of any general 
 rule or by-law, made by the Governors, for pensioning masters ?-^No ; I applied four or 
 five times to obtain it ; after forty-two years teaciiiug 1 thought I might hope for it ; they 
 answered, ' you are not used up yet.'" — My answer to that is, he never received such an 
 answer. 1 distinctly state, he never received such an answer. 
 
 227(i8. Did ho make a formal application to the board, or only a verbal application to 
 individual members or officers? — He did make an application to the board, and to me. 
 The circumstances are these : he had applied two or three times to the Governors, who 
 did not think they could grant him a pension. He came then to the assistant secretary, 
 who told me that he was veiy anxious to see some of the Governors. He tried to prevent that, 
 but Dr. King persevered, and asked whether 1 woidd see him ; to which j\lr. Thorp replied 
 that he was sure I would ; and he brougiit Dr. King to me in the bank. I saw him, and had 
 a conversation with him. He pressed this matter on me, and I replied, that if he put his 
 application in writing in the form of a memorial tliat it would be placed before the Ijoard; 
 but that I could say no more on the .subject. I had some conversation with him about the 
 school and other matters, and he thanked me for the interview ; and my observation on 
 Dr. King leaving the room was, in the presence of Mr. Thorp, " AVell, Dr. King, I am 
 glad to see you so well." These were my words. His memorial did come before the 
 hoard, and was considered by them, but they did not thin'v tliat tlicy would be justified in 
 giving a pension to Dr. King. Mr. Needham, who was the master of Drogheda school, has 
 been mentioned. He was master and usher of Drogheda school for thirty-one years ; he 
 was appointed in IS 10, usher, and appointed head master in 1819. He was granted an 
 annuity of £100 a-year, Irish, I believe, in 1841 ; but he produced very strong medical cer- 
 tificates. I have them, and perhaps the Coinrai.ssioners would like to see them. 
 
 227G9. Would you lie so good as to read them? — " 1 certify that I was called upon to 
 visit the Rev. George Iv'eedham of this town, on the of lOth February last, and that on enter- 
 ing his room I found him recovering from a state of insensibility, having suddenly fallen 
 from his chair while taking his dinner. 
 
 " Since that period 1 have been paying attention to his gener.al health, and am quite 
 satisfied that he is totally unlit for any pursuit in hfe requiring deep mental reflection or 
 much excitement. 
 
 " I also certify to having attended Mrs. Needham (the wife of the Rev. George Need- 
 ham) about four years ago, during a protracted typhus fever ; since then she has been 
 incapable of making the exertions necessary for a person whose domestic concerns require 
 much activity, and 1 do consider that hei- nervous system has received a serious shock from 
 witnessing Mr. Needham's late indisposition. 
 
 " Given under my hand at Drogheda, this 20th day of JNlarch, 184 1. 
 
 " Robert Pentland, m.r.c.s.i., 
 " Surgeon to the County Infirmary and Gaol at Drogheda." 
 
 * Evideuce, 3i>25. t Evidence, 29i!7. 
 
 Voi,. II. 2 B 2
 
 188 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The tiocentora of t/te 
 
 Schools J'u/iHt/ed hif 
 Krasiinm S'liif/i, 7:,">i/. 
 
 •Tolin Barlow. Tsq. 
 
 "Drogheda, March 21, 1841. 
 " I certify that I have been in the habit of seeing the Rev. George Needhani constantly 
 since the 10th of February last, and 1 concur in the opinion expressed by Mr. I'entland, as 
 to the present state of ^Ir. Needham's health. 
 
 " TtlOMAS S. MunPHY, 
 
 " Licentiate of the Royal College of Surgeons Ireland." 
 
 22770. These certificates show that we do not act without strong reasons, and we 
 thought it necessary to keep them from 1841 up to the present time. 
 
 22771. The question which appeared to rae to arise is, whether you had any established 
 system of superannuating masters? — No, we liave not. 
 
 22772. Do you not think that a system of the kind regulated by certain rules, would 
 operate with advantage in encouraging persons to engage in your service ? — It must, I 
 think; but the truth is. and I had better state it, that I doubt very mucji if we have any 
 power to grant superannuations, but it would be as well if we had. When Dr. King's case 
 was before us, it was very strongly urged we had not the power. 
 
 22773. From time to time you have granted pensions. You have at other times refused 
 them, alleging that you had not the power to grant them. One remarkable case was 
 brought before us at Naas, where the master of tlie Donadea school, named Lcggatt, who 
 was many years in your service, and who appeared to have performed liis duty satisfac- 
 torily, was dismissed in consequence of some dissatisfaction evinced by the Governors 
 respecting the building of a glebe house adjoining the schoolhouse. He then petitioned 
 your board for a retii-ing allowance, and it was not granted, as I understood, because you 
 alleged you had not the power to grant pensions. — I am not aware we ever pensioned 
 any of tlie masters of our English schools. 
 
 22774. Yes; you did at Roscrea Well, that was an exceptional case, but we did not 
 
 consider we had the power of doing it; and without entering fully into the case you have 
 mentioned, I may say we had an olijection to the master, because he held t!ie office of clerk 
 of petty sessions. 
 
 22775. Perhaps it is better to come to that case afterwards. Dr. King mentioned 
 another master who had a pension, and I think he stated, that when pensioned he enjoyed 
 very good health, and that you pensioned him notwithstanding. That was Mr. Twiss, of 
 Drogheda. — Mr. Tu'iss was represented to us to be in very bad health. He was appointed 
 in the year 1810; we granted him a pension in consequence of ill health, on the i7th of 
 February, 1826. He never lived to receive one farthing of it. It is strange that Dr. 
 King was not aware of that fact, for he was well acquainted with Mr. Twiss. 
 
 22776. Dr. King states that the statistics of schools show that schoolmasters go out of 
 fa.shion, and tliat a school rises, Hourishes. and decays, generally in twenty years, lie looks 
 upon that as a reason in favour of establi.shing a system of superannuation ; and yon do 
 not express any opinion on the part of the Governors with regard to the propriety of estab- 
 lishing such a system, as you consider it is doubtful whether you have at present the power 
 to devote your funds to that purpose. — 1 think if we had the power wc would exercise it 
 with caution ; but I think if we had, it would be desirable that we should sometimes exer- 
 cise it; but I believe the fact is, we have not the power. 
 
 22777. There is a point remaining in Dr. King's evidence with regard to the admission 
 of Roman Catholic pupils, to wliich I ought to draw your attention. lie says.* "it is exceed- 
 ingly difficult to get boys to accept places on the foundation." He also states, " that when 
 a boy applied to him for admission on the foundation, he never inquired whether he was 
 Rrotestant or Romanist." Have the Governors laid down any regulations with reference 
 to the religious instruction to bo given to day-scholars admitted into the grammar 
 schools? — They always believed that any child attending these schools, no matter what 
 his religion was, was, in fact, obliged to read the ISible. 
 
 22778. I am speaking of the grannnar schools? — I apply the observation to all our 
 schools; and certainly, if wc had known that Dr. King had exercised that discretion, we 
 should have been very much displeased. 
 
 22779. But have you not yourselves granted nominations to Roman Catholic free pupils 
 in your schools ? — I suppose wc have — I am sure we have ; but it was on tlie condition that 
 they would conform to our rules and regulations : and tliat if they entered the schools as 
 free pu[)ils they should read the liible. 
 
 22780. Now where are the rules and regulations fen- tlie grammar schools? — I am not 
 aware they are posted in the grammar schools, but in the English schools they are. 
 
 22781. It does not appear to me tl'.at you have any rules for tiio management of the 
 grammar schools? — There is no doubt whatever as to the ])ractice we require to be pur- 
 sued in our schools, \^'e did, and do consider it the iiouiulen duty of our sclioolma.sters 
 to teach the reading of the Bible to the free pupils in our scJiools, grammar or J'higlish. 
 
 22782. That is, you have made that regulation with regard to giving religious in- 
 struction in the English schools. The i'rotostant character of the grannnar schools is 
 established by one of the rules laid down in your charter, which specifies that the masters 
 shall instruct the ])upils out of [Archbishop Ussher's catechism. The fact also, that tb(! 
 master nuist be a clergym.in and snliscribe to the canons, indicates very distinctly their 
 I'rotestant character; but in spit(! of tliat, it is perfectly clear as a matter of fa('t that y(]U 
 have, and 1 would siiy as a board, knowingly received llonian Catholic pupils into your 
 grammar schools for many years, or from the earliest time ; and 1 find in your hooks no 
 
 * Evklciicc, 39C9.
 
 EVIDENCE. 189 
 
 rogulntions, nt li-nst in hitter years, resj)cctiiig tlic ir.odc in wliicli tlie master was to deal rtm.i.v. 
 witli the reliirious instruction of the children, whether thev were hoarders or ■whether tliev „., „ ^ , 
 
 1 11 T ^ • 1 1 • 1 • 1 11 • 1 . 1 , 1 •. J lie Oteertiorx of Ihe 
 
 were (lay-scliolars. — 1 ccrtanily did consider, and do consider, that our masters arc hound Schools timtidni hi/ 
 to teach the IJible to every child, no matter what his religion may he, who enters our Erusinun'SiiiiiU, Kiq. 
 schools — grammar sciiools as well as luiglisli schools. 1 do not know that 1 can sliow you Jnlm i;:iili,w, I>q. 
 any rule on tlie subject lioyoiul what is in our charter; but 1 have no doubt \vijat('ver, 
 that our masters fully understood that they were to do so. 
 
 2278.''. Although you have not laid down any formal code of rules relative to religious 
 instruction in the grammar schools, i)orhai)s you have made it a practice to communicate 
 with the masters on their appointment, and explain to them what your views arc relative 
 to the religious instruction to i)e given in tlie grammar schools? — I cannot charge my 
 memory with any tiling distinct on the subject; but that they knew they were; bound to do 
 it 1 have not tlu! slightest doubt in my mind. They are all Protestant clergymen, and f. 
 consider they were bound to do it without any instruction from us. 
 
 22784. According to the view you take of the matter, the principle to be applied to the 
 grammar schools as to religious instruction ought to be the same as in your English 
 schools ■? — I think so. 
 
 2278.5. Namely, that tlie Bible should be made use of as the book for communicating 
 religious instruction to all tlii^ jiujiils? — Decidedly. 
 
 2278G. You state that as your own individual opinion, but are you aware whether any reso- 
 lution to that effect has been coino to by the board ? — No ; but I am perfectly sure there is 
 no individual Governor who would not give the same answer. There are several of the 
 Governors now in the room, and 1 think from the whole of them you will get the same 
 answer. 
 
 2278". It is a matter of fact that you have liecn receiving into the grammar schools 
 knowingly — because the Parliamentary returns indicate it — llonian Carbolics, botii boarders 
 and day scholars. Was any notice ever given to Roman Catholics admitted into the 
 schools, that they would be bound to conform to the regulations that you have stated, 
 with regard to giving religious instruction out of the Holy Scriptures? — You refer to the 
 grammar schools. 
 
 22788. Yes ; confine yourself to the grammar schools ? — Confining my answer to the 
 grammar sciiools, I would say. that 1 am not aware there ever was. 
 
 2278'J. 1 find, that in Galway, long ago, Roman Catholic children were admitted in very 
 large numbers. The first volume of your registry records cases where the rules of 
 1712, which you were so good as to send to the Commissioners, with some manuscript 
 observations of your own respecting them, were put in force. These rules were entitleS. 
 " Rules framed for the purpose of hindering the youth educated in the grammar schools 
 continuing or turning Papists." There are four rules relative to religious instruction, and 
 they were obviously meant to exclude any Roman Catholic who intended to persevere in the 
 profession of the Roman Catholic faith. Immediately after the issuing of these rules, the 
 master of the grammar school at Galway, reported to the Governors that lie was ohliged 
 under these rules, to e.xpel on one day eighty-five ''I'opish" scholars from the school, of 
 which seventy paid him tuition ; and that thereby ho suffered very considerable loss. He 
 prayed the Governors to take the matter into consideration, and either to rela.x tlie stringency 
 of these rules, or to increase his salary. The Governors referred the matter to the Arch- 
 bishop of Tuam, giving him some kind of discretionary power to prescribe the religious in- 
 struction ; and from time to time to direct the master with regard to it ; and it would appear 
 that something was done, although I could find in the hooks no record of it, to compose 
 matters in such a way as that Roman Catholics should yet be received into the school. I 
 say that merely as a conjecture; Init certainly it is clear from your records, that l\oma!i 
 Catholics have been admitted into the grammar schools, both boarders and day scholars 
 continuously ? — 1 believe so. 
 
 22790. And it does not appear that a rule requiring the reading of the Scriptures by 
 Roman Catholic pupils has been continuously enforced, if enforced at all, for many years. 
 r have stated that as my view, but if you can show it to be inaccurate, I will thank you 
 to correct me? — Of course, as to what has taken place at the Ennis school, I have nothing 
 further to say than what I have said ; but as toDioghcda and the other schools, I would be 
 surprised, if the l>ible was not read by every child attending these schools. 
 
 22791. Take the case of Drogheda grammar school : J\ir. Lacy, when under examination, 
 with reference to the instruction of the Roman Catholic pupils in the Di-oglieda school, in- 
 formed us that the following was the mode in which he dealt with them* : — he gives religious 
 instruction in the morning — the first half-hour, I believe ; and the Roman Catholics do not 
 attend during that time. They enter the scliool after the religious instruction has terminated, 
 and receire no religious instruction whatever. — I am not aware of it. 
 
 22792. I think you will find that in none of the grammar schools has any religious 
 instruction been given to Roman Catholic pupils; but, as regards the religious character 
 of the schools, some information respecting it may be gathered from the declarations of the 
 founder. Are you aware that the founder has expressed bis opinion as to the religious 
 character of the instruction to be imparted?— I always understood that his schools were 
 to be Protestant schools — schools for the education of Protestant children principally. 
 
 22793. That is to he collected from the matters already referred to iu the charter; but, 
 I ask you, had you any means of knowing what were the inteutions of Era.snius Smith as 
 an individual in this respect ? — No, I have not. 
 
 * Evidence, 12785.
 
 190 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAKD, COMMISSION. 
 
 [ Ddblin . 
 
 Tlie Goveriiors uf tht 
 
 Schooh founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq, 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 22794. Would you be so good as to look to the first volume of your registry, and you 
 will see a letter from Erasmus Smith himself on this subject ? — There is no doubt but 
 that Erasmus Smith intended that they should be purely Protestant schools. 
 
 22795- I wish to have that letter read for the purpose of indicating the founder's 
 intention. 
 
 "London, June ye 6th, 1682. 
 
 " jMy Lords and Gentlemen, — I have received your letter, dated May the 23rd, with a 
 copy of the report concerning the present state of the schoole at Droghedah, and am sorry 
 you have been put to soe much trouble ; I give you my humble thanks for your careful 
 inspection of the schooles, and especially this of Droghedah. The letter following was 
 written before the receipt of yours which I now humbly present unto you, not doubting 
 but it will be satisfactory to your honours as it will be to myself if followed. 
 
 " My end in founding the three schooles was to propagate the Protestant faith according 
 to the Scriptures, avoiding all superstition, as the Charter, and the bylawes, and rules 
 established doe direct. Therefore, it is the command of His Majesty to catechize the 
 children out of Primate Ussher's, and expound the same unto them, which I humbly desire 
 may be observed upon the penalty of fforfeiting theire places. 
 
 '• Now that the schollars educated in those foundations may be encouraged, I humbly 
 request that it may be comended to tlie Provoist and Fellows of Trinity CoUedge, Dublin, 
 to jiresent to your honours one fittly qualifyed according to the Charter, lawes, and h'ules, 
 to oficiate in the room of Mr. Scott, late schoolemaster att Droghedah, giving prefference 
 to those that have been educated in those schooles, that others educated upon the same 
 foundations, may be encouraged to present theraselve& worthy of the like choice ; if none 
 among them be qualified, I leave it att large, and as I find theire faithfulnes herein, I shall 
 be encouraged to trust them for the future. I desire tlio Charter may be abstracted as to 
 what doth concerne the duty, and priviledge both of master, and scholars, and the lawes, 
 and rules added thereto, and that a table may be fairely written thereof, and hung up in the 
 most publique place in every schoole, that neither master nor scholar may pretend ignorance. 
 
 " My Lords, my designe is not to reflect upon any, onely I give my judgment why those 
 schooles are so consumptive, wliich was, and is, and will be (if not prevented), the many 
 popish schooles, their neighbours, which, as succers doo starve tlie tree. If parents 
 will exclude their children because prayers, catcchisme, and exposition is commanded, I 
 cannot help it, for [not =] to remoove tliat barre is to make them seminaries of Popery. 
 Therefore, I beseech you to command him that shall be presented and approoved by your 
 honours, to observe them that decline those duties and expell them, which will obliege, 
 my Lords and Gentlemen, 
 
 •' Your most humble servant, 
 
 "Erasmus Smith." 
 
 22796. Is therule specified in that letter insisted upon in thegrammar schools? — It is not. 
 22797- Are tlie masters, on their appointment, furnished with the charter? — I do not 
 think they are. 
 
 22795. They have stated that they are not. — I need scarcely s.ay it is the fii'st time I 
 read that letter ; but I at once admit it is as strong a letter as can be read on the subject. 
 
 22799. Tlie masters, generally speaking, have informed the Commissioners that they 
 are not furnished with copies of the charter or of the rules laid down for the guidance of 
 the masters. If there are any other points in Dr. King's evidence on which the Governors 
 desire to make any statement, now would be the time to do so, before we review the evidence 
 of Dr. Culliucan, tendered to the Commissioners at Ennis. — I do not think we have further 
 observations to make on his evidence, I had several things down on paper which I 
 intended to bring before the Commissioners, but you have touched on them all. 
 
 22800. AVe will now go into the complaints and allegations of Dr. Cullinan. He laid 
 before the Commissioners the following matters : — Dr. Cullinan 's first objection is, that 
 the constitution of the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools is bad ; and when 
 asked to state his reasons for that opinion, he saysj: — "The Commissioners are awai-e the 
 Doard consists of a number of high ofiicial persons, who are ex-oficio Governors ; they do 
 not attend or discharge the functions. There are a great many others resident in Ireland, 
 members of the board, and no member of the board has any local connexion with the 
 place in which the school is situate, or any knowledge whatever of its discipline, progress, 
 or management. I think the organization is most unsuitable to exercise an cflicient control 
 over Sic school. You will see, by the returns laid b(;fin'e Parliament, none of the ex-oficio 
 Governors ever attend, cxccjit the Provost for one day last year, and he has some interest 
 in the matter, for Trinity College receives a large amount of the funds of the Governors." 
 Have you any statement to make with reference to that cli;irgc ? — 1 do not think it is to 
 be considered a charge as against the Governors. 
 
 22801. As against the system under which they are acting? — All I can say is, that since 
 the day I became a Governor, I do not think that a board was ever adjourned for the 
 want of a sufficient attendance to do the business, more than two or tlirc-e times. The 
 minute books will show that there has been more than a sufficient number to do the 
 business; and as to the ex-officio Governors not attending. Dr. Cullinan is not borne out, 
 certainly, by tiie fact, because 1 have, over and over again, seen ex-officio (iovernors present 
 at the Board, which the minutes will testify, by reference to which the Commissioners can 
 satisfy tliemsclvcs as to that fact. The constitution of the Board is according to the 
 
 • [Not] is interlined in llic oriyinul Minute Uook, but the coiilext shows tliat it has been iuiproiicil)- inserted, 
 t Evidence, 3976.
 
 EVIDENCF: 191 
 
 charter. There arc thirty-five Governors, wliich number has been regularly kept up from jjiblin. 
 that time to the present. 
 
 22802. In order, however, to secure attendance at tlie board, the charter providers that SchoMsfyunded ly^ 
 
 any Governors who do not attend for two ycais are removable at the ])lea.surc of tlio vest Erasmus' Smith, Esq. 
 
 We always find tliat a sufliiciciit number attends ; and it is an invidious thing, unless it •I"lin R.-irlow, Ksq. 
 becomes absolutely necessary, to remove others, except they wish it sliould be done. It 
 is not the practice of tlio board to remove (Jovcrnors for non-attendance. 
 
 2280.3. Are you aware whether they ever have been removed ? — I have no recollection 
 whatever of it. 
 
 22804. Are you aware of that rule having been acted on ? — Not at all. 
 
 2280.5. On the 2nd of March, 1820, the rcgi.strar was directed to write to the Governors 
 who absented tlicniselvcs from the meetings of the board for two years or more, and to 
 request tliom either to attend or resign. In consequence of this five Governors resigned. — 
 That was in 1820; but I was not ajjpointed a Governor until 1839, and of what took place 
 in 1820 I have no recollection wliatever; but this I am sure of, that if we had not a sufficient 
 attendance we would do the same thing; but we have always an adequate attendance. 
 
 22806. Dr. Cullinan's statement is, that the ex-officio Governors never attended ; and he 
 referred, for tliat purpose, to a Parliamentary return, which was ordered by the House of 
 Commons to bo printed, on tlie 2Gth of May, 1854, and it appeared from that, that in tho 
 preceding twelve months tlie Provost of Trinity College was the only ex-officio Governor 
 who had attended. — That is very likely ; but you referred to 1839, and from that time 
 down I can show you a great number of ex-officio Governors who attended. 1 will not 
 take on myself to say from memory who they were, without reference to the books. Since 
 I became a Governor there have been a great number of ex-'ifficio Governors attending. 
 I could point out from the book four or five. 
 
 22807. I tliink you will find there have been, since 20th April, 1853, but three ex-officio 
 
 Governors wlio attended at all, and that each of them attended twice I think tliat is 
 
 very likely; but I say that Dr. Cullinan is quite wrong in stating that ex-officio Governors 
 never attended. If he chooses to go no further back than the year 1853 he may be I'ight, 
 but if ho goes further back he is wrong. 
 
 22808. 1 think you must admit that his statement was justified, considering that he had 
 no document but tho one which I have referred to before him, and which enumerated the 
 attendance for a year. — I think 1 should say, on behalf of the ex-officio Governors, that we 
 cannot expect them to give the ordinary attendance. 
 
 22809. I am not joining in the accusation. — No ; but I wish to explain that the attend- 
 ance of the different members of tlie corporation is naturally different. The Chancellor could 
 not be expected to attend — nor docs he attend. However the constitution of the board 
 came from I'h-asmns Smith liimsolf. and theae ex-o//'cio Governors were appointed by him. 
 
 22810. Dr. Cullinan's next statement was that the Governors exercised their functions 
 negligently and inefficiently, because they did not visit or inspect the schools. — They do 
 not inspect the schools, unless occasionally. I may .say they never inspected any of the 
 schools except by accident ; hut I have inspected them when I found myself in a town or 
 neighbourhood where we ha'l schools. With respect to the charge, tliat we are generally 
 neglectful of our duties as Governors, I think that our minute-books and proceedings, 
 without my making any attestation on the point, will show that that is not a fact. 
 
 22811. On being further questioned as to his charge that the Governors exercised their 
 functions negligently, he states- — " They have never made a law for the regulation of the 
 school for 200 years. The laws made then are now in force ; I should say they are rather 
 obsolete." — I am not aware of any laws that we have made. 
 
 22812. With reference to the number of free pupils on the foundation, he saidf — " It is 
 very small — that I do not think is attributable to IJr. King." He would appear to ascribe 
 the smallness of the number of free pupils on the foundation to the Governors' regulations. 
 — The Governors are really very anxious to have a great many free pupils. Our wish and 
 desire is to have a great number of free pupils. 
 
 22813. The school at Ennisis not one of your chartered grammar schools, and you might 
 make special regulations respecting it which do not apply to the other three? — We might, 
 no doubt. Dr. Cullinan is aware it is not one of our chartered schools. 
 
 22814. Would not the same powers under which you endowed that school, as well as I 
 remember, in 1773, enable you to expend your funds for the purpose of increasing in any 
 way the efficiency of that or any other grammar school under your control ? — I think 
 there is no difKculty about that point 
 
 22815. Tho next accusation that Dr. Cullinan brings against the Governors is. that they 
 misapplied their funds, and being asked to explain this charge, he says' — " I do not think 
 they pay their masters here adequately, and they pay money for other purposes which they 
 ought to apply for paying the masters — money that might be better api)lied ; they paj- to 
 Trinity College a large amount, which I think is a misapplication." — 1 do not believe we 
 pay to Trinity College one penny that it is not entitled to under the charter. I believe you 
 will find our payments confined to what the charter tells us. 
 
 2281(3. What were the primary objects of the founder, as set forth in the preamble of 
 the charter '? — There were two primary objects : the three grammar schools. 
 
 22k 17. That is one of them, and the maintaining in Trinity College of pupils educated 
 in the grammar schools? — And Christ's Hospital, London. 
 
 * Evidence, 3996. f Evidence, 4014. J Evidence, 4029.
 
 192 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 KtiiLtN. 22S1S. In the preamhle the original intention of tlie founder would appear to be 
 
 those two mnin objects. Then the establislimeut of exliibitions in Trinity College was part 
 
 Srh'JJs^fmimled hi'i'^ of tlic founder's original intention. Are you aware when these exliibitions were first legal- 
 F.rnsmvx Smiih. Eaq. izcd ? — By Act of Parliament the exhibitions were legalized in 1723. the lOth of George I., 
 Jolin Eitrloiv. Km], but thev bad been paid previously, for iiotice is taken in that act of their being in existence 
 previously. 
 
 22519. Are you aware of how long standing the custom of paying exhibitions in Trinity 
 College is ? — 1 am not. 
 
 22520. Would you be so good as to turn to the first volume of the registry book, page 
 29 ■? — I have it before me. 
 
 22821. Do vou find an V mention there of poor scholars being elected to exhibitions ? 
 —Yes. 
 
 22822. Be so good as to read it? — " That the cost of pnoro schollars, now in Trinity 
 CoUedge, brought in by the Provost, who are to receive exhibitions, be entered by the 
 registrar, and that the treasurer pay unto twenty of the number therein that are approved 
 by the Governors, quarterly, the sum of thirty shillings to each, the first quarter to begin 
 the twenty-fourth day of this instant Juno, being at the rate of six pounds a yeare to each 
 schollar, being £120 ]>cy annum. 
 
 '• Memorandum. — The Governors doe expect that they may hcare from the Provost 
 wlicn any of the schollars aforesaid arc chosen schollars of the bouse ; thus these supernu- 
 meraries (now included in this said list) shall be preferred unto their exhibitions, and such 
 other as they shall find a vacancy at theire next following meeting, and the exhibitions 
 to be continued to them according to the rule prescribed by the bill grounded upon the 
 explanatory Act of Parliament." 
 
 22S23. Then vou have before you a letter written by Erasmus Smith to the Governors, 
 of a later date, showing that this was the practice in tlie life time of the founder. — 1 dul 
 not know that before, nor do I think the Governors are aware of it. 
 
 22824. Do j'ou know when the number and value of those exhibitions wore increased ? 
 — They are at present thirty-five, but in the time of George I , or a little pievious to 
 it, these exhibitions were increased in number. The existing ones were raised from £6 
 to £S a-year, and fifteen new ones were established at £6 a-year. The Governors, in 
 endowing these exhibitions, believed that they had legal authority to do so, even anterior 
 to the Act of 10th George 1. 
 
 22S2.5. Do vou know what other legal documents you have, under which you act, besides 
 the charter and the Act of 10th George I. ? — There is the charter of William IV. 
 
 22S2G. Are these all you are aware of? — I think so. 
 
 22S2T. i'ou will find that there are others — In the commencement of the charter 
 reference is made to a bill that was transmitted under the Great Seal of Ireland, according 
 to Poyning's Act. to Charles II.: and that bill was afterwards recognised by the Act of 
 Explanation, which immediately followed the Act of Settlement. 
 
 22825. Were you aware that the lands of Erasmus Smith are mentioned in the Act of 
 Settlement? — Indeed I was not. 
 
 22820. i Secretary. — There was an act passed in the fourteenth and fifteenth years of the 
 reign of King Charles II., in tlie Parliament of Ireland, entitled ''An Act for the better 
 cxecntion of His Majesty's declaration for the settlement of his kingdom of Ireland, and 
 the satisfaction of the several interests of adventm-ers, souldiers, anil his subjects there." 
 — The 1 IGth section states — " AVhereas lands, in the county of Louth, have been appointed 
 by the Lord Justices of Ireland to Erasmus Smith, Esq., towards satisfaction for lands in 
 Ireland, and the po.sscssion thereof ordered accordingly; be it enacted, that the lands so 
 firdered and appointed be settled, confirmed, and established to and upon him the said 
 i'lrasnuis Smith, bis heirs, and assigns, with all advantages, privileges allowed by this act 
 to adventurers, any thing in this act contained to the contrary notwithstanding.'' 
 
 2v;830. The 187th section says — '• I'rovided nevertheless, that if any of the said lands 
 bo restored pursuant to the rules of this act, or otherwise, to any person restorablc, the 
 said Erasmus Smith, his heirs, and assigns shall be first rej)ayed for such lands so restored 
 by other lands in the .said county of Loutli, and for want thereof by other forfeited lands 
 in some other convenient pl.icc of ('([ual value, worth, and jmrchase. Provided, that by 
 order hereof no more lands be settled and confirmed to the said I'lrasmus Smith, bis heirs, 
 and assigns, than according to the rules for satisfying adventurers." 
 
 22831. There was an act passed in the Parliament of Ireland, in the seventeenth and 
 eighteenth years of the reign of Charles II., lGf).5, entitled '"An Act for the ex])laining of 
 some doubts ari>ing u])on an act intituled, ' An Act for the better execution of His Majestie'c; 
 gracious declaration, i'or the settlement of his kingdom of Ireland, and satisfaction of the 
 several intcrrst of adventnrei's, soldiers, and others jiis s\d)jects there ; and for making some 
 alterations of, and ;iddition unto the said Act, i'or the more s[i(H'dy and effectual se(tlement 
 of the said Kingdom." The side-note of 98tb section is — " Lands of Erasmus Smitii, 
 intended for charitable uses, not already decreed away, .shall be apjilied thereto;" and the 
 .section itself commences : " Whereas, amongst several bills, certified and transmitted under 
 the Gi'eat Seal of Iieland. imto His ^dajestie. in his High Court of Chancery, in Ihigland, 
 by a certificate, bearing date .at Dublin, the 13th day of May, in tlu; sixteenth year of His 
 j\lajestie'8 reign, a bill is transmitted, intituled, an Act for settling of certain lands of 
 Erasmus Smith, I'lsq., for charitable uses, &c." 
 
 22832. This transmitted bill was not passed by the Irish House of Commons, but it 
 obtained .some validity from this act of explanation ; and, it appears from your records to
 
 EVIDENCE. 193 
 
 have Leon constantly tiilcon witli tlie cliarter as a guide to the Governors in tlie apj)h'cation IJuulim. 
 
 of accruing unrplus funds. In tlie early history of the cliarity, it is also found to liavc hccn . 
 
 taken as a guide fur other purposes. If you look to jiage 29 of the registry hook, wliich you s,i,o(7ff"umlalLf 
 have just read, you will find that the endowment of these exliihitions is warranted hy the Eatsmux'Sim/li, /vV/. 
 transmitted hill. It cannot then he said that even at first the j)ayment of these e.xhihitions .ri.im V.^rhw, Ksq. 
 was a misapplication of the funds, much less now since the endowment of them has heen 
 warranted hy the Act of 10 Geo. I. What other grants to Trinity College have heen 
 made under that act; hecauso it allowed the funds of tin; (jovernors to he aj)propriated 
 to other uses connected with the coHege ? — Three fellowships and two profei-sorshij)s. 
 
 228'J3. And further, the same Act of Parliament wan-anted you in applying money towards 
 the erection of huildings for the accommodation of students educated in the grammar 
 schools'? — And a largo sum of money was given for that purpose. 
 
 22834. Have you any record of that having heen doi;e. The j)rincipal theatre of the 
 College, now called the 10.\amination Hall, was built at the ex])ensc of the Governors, or 
 at least £2,500 was api)lied towards it. ahout the year 1777. The Fagel library was also 
 purchased in 1802, or 1803. How is that expenditure justified by the Act of Parliament ? 
 
 22835. [T/ieopIiihis Jones, lOsq. — The closing section — " Then, and in such case, it shall 
 and may he lawful to and for the Governors of the said schools for the time being, from 
 time to time for ever hereafter, to apply and dispose of the residue and surplus of the said 
 yearly rents, for and towards some public work or use. in the said college."] 
 
 2183G. Are you aware whether the clause which warranted the erection of buildings for 
 the occupation of students was ever acted on? — It was acted on 
 
 22837. [Rev. //. Hamilton.- — What is the date to which you refer?] 
 
 22838. If you turn to registry-book. No. 1, page 291, you will find there a notice that 
 £942 odd shillings were expended hy the Governors in the erection of buildings, that 
 these huildings were then made over to the purposes specified in the Act of Parliament ; 
 and that the Provost and IJoard of Senior l*'ellows of Trinity College undertook, in 
 consideration, for ever to receive into those buildings thirty-two of the exhibitioners of the 
 Erasmus Smith's Schools, free of chamber rent? — It is all here. 
 
 22839. [Rev. Ilui/h Ilamiltori. — This is the passage — '• In consideration thereof, and 
 the better to fulfil the true intent and meaning of the said act, we, the said Provost, 
 Fellows, and Scholars, do hereby, for ourselves and our successors, covenant, promise, 
 grant, and agree to, and with the said Governors of the said schools, and their successors, 
 that W'C the said Provost, Fellows, and Scholars, and our successors, shall and will from 
 time to time, and at all times for ever, hereafter receive and lodge thirty-two scholars, 
 or members of the said college, to whom any pension, exhibition, or annuity, is or shall be 
 payable out of the said lands set apart by the said Erasmus Smith, Esq., in proper and 
 convenient chambers in the said college, in such manner as other scholars or members of 
 the said college by the laws and statutes thereof, are or ought to be received, admitted, or 
 lodged in chambers in the said college ; and that thirty -two scholars or members of the 
 said college to whom any pension, exhibition, or annuity, is or shall be payable to them 
 respectively, and during their respective continuance in such chambers be severally and 
 respectively freed, exempted, and dischai-gcd of and from the payment of any chamber 
 rent."] 
 
 228-10. Is that privilege to the exhibitioners of Erasmus Smith's Schools known to 
 exist? — I do not think it is. 
 
 22841. Would not the public announcement of such a privilege tend to the improvement 
 of your schools? — I have no doubt but it would. 
 
 22842. The compact just mentioned secured exemption from chamber rent to thirty- 
 two out of thirty-five exhibitioners; are you aware whether there has been any extension 
 of the privilege to the remaining three? — I cannot say. 
 
 22843. It was extended ; and if you turn to page 327 you will find some passages to 
 prove that. It appears that not long after the erection oi the two buildings already men- 
 tioned a fire occurred in the college, which destroyed one of them and injured th.e other. 
 The Governors then made a second grant of money, £100, to the college, to assist in the 
 repair of the buildings, and in consideration of that grant the Provost and Senior Fellows 
 undertook as before to give chambers rent free to three more of the exhibitioners of Krasmus 
 Smith's Schools. Do you know whether any thing occurred afterwards to deprive the exhi- 
 bitioners of that privilege? — No; we must exercise our fvdl rights for the future. 
 
 22"^44. It appears to be a very valuable privilege, and you are not aware whether it 
 has ever been acted on ? — I am not. 
 
 22; 45. The Commissioners desired to call the attention of the Governors to it. They 
 have become informed of it, on making inquiries for the purpose of ascertaining what 
 substance there was in these charges made against the Governors.^We are much obliged 
 to the Commissioners. It is rather strange we did not know of it, for my old friend, Dr. 
 Elrington, for many years treasurer of our hoard, was a Fellow of Trinity College, and 
 during his time our late Provost often attended the boards, and we never heard a word 
 of it. 
 
 22846. Dr. Cullinan asserted that these payments to Trinity College involved a misap- 
 plication of the funds ; but afterwards, having the Act of Parliament set before him, he 
 full}' withdrew that statement ; nevertheless I thought it necessary that, as many persons 
 were not aware of the grounds on which the Governors acted, the reasons should be fully 
 opened. The sums to which reference has been made, £2,500, contributed towards the 
 
 Vol. II. 2 C
 
 194 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IKELAND. COIVOIISSION. 
 
 DuBLis. building of the theatre, and the sum of £9,600 devoted to the purchase of tlie Fagel 
 
 library, were expended for the benefit of the college. I believe very few persons arc awaro 
 
 Schouk^founilcd L" 0^ these facts. Dr. Cullinaii went on, in justification of his charge of tlie niisa])plication of 
 TrasMui Smith. £57. the fuuds, to observe — I will read his own words — " I think they misapply the funds in 
 John Barlo\T, F.^q. other ways. They support, at great expense, a number of English scliools." How can 
 theGovernors justify their expenditure mainly upon English schools? — We considered we 
 had power to spend our funds, if they were sufficient, for establishing English schools, 
 by the Act of George I. At the time those English schools were established, it will 
 be in the recollection of the Commissioners, that tlie National schools which arc so justly 
 spoken of, and the efficiency of which we fully admit, were not in existence. We established 
 schools where there were no schools established before of the same character. We have to 
 contend with the National schools in many respects, and in some respects, at least, our 
 schools differ in their constitution from the National schools; and we consider that we are 
 fully justified in exjiending portion of our fund in the maintenance and keeping up these 
 English schools. 
 
 22847. But as I understood Dr. CuUinan, lie did not state that the expenditure of 3'our 
 funds upon these English schools was illegal, but that it was an unwise exercise of a 
 discretion which you have with reference to surplus accruing revenues. What were the 
 primary objects contemplated by the founder : does he appear to have contemplated the 
 erection of English schools? — I do not think lie did contemplate them. 
 
 22S48. Might it not be alleged that as your funds increased you ought to have done more 
 to carry out his original intentions — to have extended and perfected the system of grammar 
 school education, which he enabled the Governors to set up when these schools were 
 erected? — Since these three schools were erected wc have increased the expenditure verj 
 considerably. Building, for instance, the Galway school, cost £8.000 or £9,000. We had 
 to spend, as I have already said, a veiy large sum for repairing Droglieda school, and also 
 the Tipperary school, which cost in round numbers £10,000. We have increased the 
 salaries of our masters very much : instead of giving them £G0 they have £100 — and instead 
 of giving £100 a-year to the Ennis school, we give £300 to the master, a house and 
 garden. 
 
 22-49- I do not think you can call that a considerable increase, from £66 135. 4d. in the 
 time of Charles II., to £100 now ? — No ; but we give £300 to the Ennis school, besides, 
 liaving laid out a large sum of money on the house. 
 
 22850. In this parliamentary return of 26th of May, 1854, I find that the expenditure 
 under the head of classical schools amoimted altogether for the year ending 1st of May, 
 1853, to £658 IO.5. 9d., and, the same year, the expenditure under the head of English 
 schools is £2,453 9-s- 4cZ. Might not Dr. CuUinan allege that it was a violation of the inten- 
 tions of the founder to expend more than three times as much upon English schooLs, the 
 establishment of which you say he does not apjiear to have contemplated, as upon the 
 grammar schools, which certainly were his main object? — On the grammar schools we have 
 expended a sum of money wliich, taken together, will be found to be very large. 
 
 22851. That is an expenditure out of your capital? — Out of the Erasmus Smith's funds. 
 The Commissioners have seen the report of a previous Commission (the Ninth Iteport of 
 the Commissioners, 1809-12) fi'om which I take the liberty of reading one passage — "The 
 accumulation of so very large a surplus fund deserves, and has of late engaged, the serious 
 attention of the Governors, who are certainly anxious to devise means of appropriating 
 it agreeably to the provisions and injunctions of the charter, and Act of lUth George 1. 
 Some of their plans for this purpose have been communicated to us by their registrar, and 
 by such of the Governors themselves as are members of this board. They have resolved 
 on founding an additional number of English schools, on a plan which bids fair to be 
 generally and extensively useful." The Commissioners then go on to state the manner in 
 which they further intended to apply the funds, and use strong expressions of their appro- 
 bation. 
 
 22852. I am quite aware that the Commissioners of the Board of Education, in 1810, 
 approved of that resolution of the Governors; but the idea originated \\h]\ the hoard 
 themselves. It was not suggested to them, nor recommended. Your registrar, when 
 examined Ijy us before, fell into an error with regard to that, wliich I was not able to cor- 
 rect at the time. He stated that the Commissioners of ]!]ducation had recommended this 
 allocation of these large funds. The circumstances of the time may have seemed to warrant 
 it, as there were but small resources then available in the way of ])riinary education. — 
 Coupled with that re])ort, the Act of 172.'i gave us the power of establishing those English 
 schools; and in accordance with it, the Governors thought they could not exercise a more 
 ])riident distribution of a great portion of the funds. This opinion was much strengthened 
 by the report of the Couimi.ssioners appointed in 1812. 
 
 22853. If you would be so good as to turn back to the report hook of the Standing 
 Committee of 1811-12, you will find set forth a general view of the expenditure for the 
 
 purpose of erecting these schools .Judge Jackson has reminded me, that wc have from 
 
 time to time considered we had a right to expend a sulliciently large sum on our grammar 
 schools. The state of this country, wlien wc commenced to found these English schools, 
 particularly re(|uirc(l schools of that character. It was with this view we founded these 
 Bcliools, and maintained them since. We were much strengthened in our opinions by the 
 report I have referred to; and we did find them very u.^eful to the country. The estab- 
 lishment of the National scliools has, no doubt, very much changed the character of
 
 EVIDENCE, 195 
 
 education in tliis coinitry ; but still wc maintain our English schools, and think that they Dvuiah. 
 
 arc doing a great deal of good, and that the ])art of our funds wliicli is applicable to thcBC xhe Govaiior, i,j the 
 schools could not be better disbursed. We may be wrong in tliat opinion. iichoohjouudcd ly, 
 
 22854. Would you bo so good as to communicate to the Commissioners the general ^-"ismus .SwiM, £«/. 
 results of tlie statement in the minute book 1 have referred to ?— I do not know whether J''''" •^a'''"^'^. ^»^- 
 this statement is accurate or not; 1 do not know whether it was laid before the Governors, 
 or whether tliey carried tliis fully out. 
 
 22^5;j. It is verilied by the signature of the registrar of the time. — I suppose this was 
 acted on. 
 
 2285(5. It states the expenditure of tiic capital on the erection of the schools? — Yes; it 
 states that the erection of sixty-two I'higlish schools, at £.300 each, to be £18,000 ; it then 
 woes on to state the entire number of schools founded, and then is brought out the sum of 
 £39,497, as recommended by the committee; ami at tliat time our funds to meet that 
 were £40,420. 
 
 22857. After the expenditure of that very large sum, on the erection of English 
 schools, it became a question, or perhaps it should have been a question before the expen- 
 diture took place, whetlier the annual income was sufficient to provide for the maintenance, 
 in a perfectly efficient state, of such a large number of schools. The total number of 
 Engli.sh schools at ]n-esent in existence is 1 1:5. 
 
 22858. [llcv. //. Hamilton. — One hundred and nineteen.] 
 
 22859. One hundred and thirteen were stated to be in existence, and six promised. The 
 annual income avaihxblo for the maintenance of these schools at present is, between 
 £2,000 and £3,000 a year. — It is, taldng the portion I think we can expend on these 
 schools. 
 
 22860. It then becomes a question whether you can maintain this large number of 
 schools in an efficient state with such an income. Is it your opinion that you can ? — I 
 think we can. We do not profess to keep them all in complete order. We require the 
 local parties to expend a portion. For instance, if an estimate is sent up to us, the com- 
 mittee say, they will engage lo have the work well executed for £20, and that they will 
 contribute, say, £ 10, if they be able to do it for the sum specified. It may be, that we will 
 send £15. In some cases wo have given the whole, but we do not wish to give the entire. 
 We think it is better to call on the managers of the school to manifest an interest in the 
 schools, by subscribing a portion of the funds. 1 hat the whole cost of tlie schools does 
 not fall ui)on us, is what 1 mean to convoy to the Commissioners. 
 
 22SG1. You subsidize the schools, which are partially supported by local resources? — 
 Just so; and we tliink it is a sound principle; and besides we are able to do a great deal 
 more, by taking that course, than wo otherwise should be. 
 
 22862. Then do you allege that this large expenditure of capital has enabled you to 
 erect a large number of English scliools, wiiich are necessary in the country, and which 
 you are able to maintain in an elBcient state by this arrangement? — That is the opinion of 
 the Governors. 
 
 22863. And you justify the expenditure of that very large sum of £39,000 partly, by the 
 fact, that it was approved of by the Commissioners of Education of 1809-12, and partly, by- 
 reference to the circumstances of the time, there being a great deficiency of the means of 
 primary instruction in the countiy ? — Just so. 
 
 22864. Did the Governors cca.se to erect English schools after the establishment of the 
 National Board ? — ^Vell, I tliink we may say we did. In the first place, the state of our 
 funds compelled us to do so ; but at all events, in maintaining the schools we have built, 
 we think we are doing quite sufficient. I should say the Act of Parliament was the chief 
 reason for our building the English schools ; and we were much fortified in this view, by 
 what you have just alluded to, the Comniissioners' Report. 
 
 22SG5. Have the Governors been able to maintain all the English schools which they 
 have erected '? — Yes ; we have. In 1847-48 wc certainly were not able to do it ; but we 
 liave now revived, and we are laying out money on a great number of our schools; and the 
 local ])atrons have themselves expended a great deal on our schools. 
 
 22866. Are those scliools, which are under local patronage, in point of fact your schools, 
 or are they the schools of the local patrons? — They are our schools. 
 
 22^67. Are you responsible for the management of them: if they are ill managed, are 
 you in fault ; but if they are well managed, do you dererve the credit of it ? — If thej- are ill 
 managed, it would be our fault, if we did not endeavour, and use every exertion in our 
 power to have them well managed. It is greatly owing, and must at all times, to local 
 management, where they are well managed. Our inspector regularly reports to us, and to 
 his reports we pay great attention. There is a sub committee appointed for the pui-pose 
 of reading and considering these repoits. and making orders on them. There is not a 
 single abstract of a report which the inspector brings up upon these schools, that is not 
 initialed by at least two, and generally three, of the sub-committee. If the Commissioners 
 have not seen these reports we can send sheets of them, in that state. 
 
 22868. We have seen some of them; but does your control as regards the discipline 
 of these schools, absolutely and completely prevail over that of the local i)atrons and 
 managers? — Yes; but we place great dependence on the local patrons; because, unless 
 they are active, we cannot make them what they ouglit to be, efficient schools ; and one 
 of our chief objects is, to create an interest in the schools, by throwing part of the respon- 
 sibility, and receiving part of the means of conducting the management of the schools from 
 
 Vol. II. 2 C 2
 
 196 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION, 
 
 DuDLiN. local patronage ; particularly, we want the superintendence of the Protestant clergy. I 
 
 „., „ ^ , suppose vou are aware, that the superiwtendcnt is, I may say, always the clergyman of the 
 
 Jilt Goveiiwrf of llii '^ F , ' ' ^ ^ ' . oj 
 
 Schools foiiiitUil hi/ parisli. 
 Ernimiis'Siiiith, Es,/. 22SG9. The greater number of your English schools was established in 1811, 1812, and 
 John Barlnw, F.fq. 1813; and after 1815 there seems to have been a cessation in the erection of English schools; 
 and it was not until IS40 that the Governors appear again to have considered that it was 
 desirable to erect English schools; and in 1840 and lS4l,and part of 1842, they seem 
 to have erected a very large number of English schools. Are you aware of the circum- 
 stances which led to that detcruiination on tlie jiart of tlic Governors?— There were a few 
 established in 1823, 1S32. 1837, and 1838, in wliich cases portions of ground were 
 granted ; but in the interval of time you speak of. we found our funds in such a state as not 
 to enable us to contribute towards building an additional number ol schools, and did not 
 think it would be a proper expenditure. 
 
 22870 At all events, in 1840 and 1841 the same reason did not prevail which was 
 alleged before, namely, tliat tliere was a great want of resources for primary education ? — 
 Not to the same extent, but the schools we founded were of quite a dill'erent character 
 from tlie National Schools. 
 
 22871. You ceased the erection of English schools in 1842? — I do not believe we built 
 any since. 
 
 22872. There is a point upon which the Commissioners desire to receive information. 
 Your grants to English schools are in aid of local contributions— do you know whether 
 tl\e grant of £39,000 appropriated towards tiie purpose of building this lai'gc number of 
 English schcols, about tlie years 1811, 1S12, and 1813, was met by local grants of money 
 to any, and what amount.- — 1 think, with the excejjcion of the grant of the ground attached 
 to the schools, the amount of money sub.^cribed was very small. Here, for instance, in the 
 case of Derry, our expenditure was £979, and the amount of private and other subscrip- 
 tions £325; in Newtownhamilton our expenditure was £450, and the amount subscribed 
 £145 ; at Dundalk our e.xpenditure £780, and the amount subscribed was £280 ; at Kilrea 
 our expenditure was £650, and the amount subscribed £21(3 ; at Ballyinoney £300 grant, 
 and subscription £100; at Eoscrea £G00 grant, amount subscribed £200: at Antrim £G00 
 grant, £200 subscribed; at Beltory £480 granted, £l80 subscribed. 
 
 22873. It is unnecessary to go further into details, but the fact, as appears from what 
 you have read is, that your grant of £39,000 does not represent the whole e.xpenditure 
 upon these schools or any thing near it, for there were local contributions to a very large 
 amount — Certainly, and contributions of land which 1 have not read for you. 
 
 22874. I should wish to know what were tlic conditions upon which these grants of 
 land were made to you — was the land granted in perpetuity? — A fee-farm grant. 
 
 22875. According to the passage which you yourself have read from the report of the 
 Commissioners of 1809-12, arrangements were made that the sites should be granted in 
 perpetuity. — That is the way we got them. 
 
 22876. Is that absolutely in perpetuity irrespective of the continuance of the school? — 
 I think not ; 1 think as long as the school is in existence, the land and house are appro- 
 priated to the uses of the school ; but 1 am not sure, that if tlie school is given up that the 
 land does not revert to the grantor. 
 
 22S77. We shall have an opportunity of examining the law agent on that point; but in 
 your opinion it does revert in all cases? — If the school is discontiriued, that, 1 think, is the rule. 
 
 22878. You must of necessity have had cases before you where schools have been discon- 
 tinued, and in these cases the lands reverted to the original grantors or their representa- 
 tives? — That is the fact. I have just before me the case of the Itathmore school which 
 was discontinued in 1851, and the iiremises reverted to Nicholas Levinge, Esq., the repre- 
 sentative of the grantor. 
 
 22879. When had that school been erected?— In October, 1814. 
 
 22880. What sum of money was granted for the ])urpose of the erection? — £300; and 
 £107 was given by the proprietor, and two acres of land. 
 
 22881. I intimated a doubt just now, whether the funds of tlie Governors are sufficient to 
 enable them to maintain so larger a number of Engli.sh sclmols in a state of efliciency, even 
 aided as they are by local contriiuitions. 'To maintain a school in an efficient state, you must 
 have a good master, and you ought to give him a reasonable salary ; you should also have 
 the means to supply it adequately with school requisites, and to keep it in a state of perfect 
 repair. Now, as regards the efficiency of the masters, 1 should desire to know what means 
 the (iovernors take to secure it?— In the first ])lace, on their appointment we receive testi- 
 monials (if their litness ; we have the master examined by our iiisjiector, or in his absence by 
 a party competent to do so. Tiiey are inspected regularly by our ins])ector at least once a year 
 — the master is iinderthe constant control ofthe superintendent.whoisthe clergyman of the 
 parish, and who is bound so far as we can bind him, to sign the reports of visits or inspec- 
 tions of our inspector, and give us his opinion of the attention paid by the schoolmaster 
 and the ])rogres.s made by the children. As regards the question which you have jiut as 
 to (lur means, 1 may mentieii to you that we liave felt we always should have a reserve 
 fund. In the years lH47 and 1848, when the state of our finances was so low, that we 
 were obliged, as I remember nientioniniC before, to apjily to the l*ank of Irtdand for a 
 loan, and we overdrew our account to the amount of £1.000, we reluctantly made a reduc- 
 tion in the salaries of our teachers, and in fact, in all the departments of our establishment. 
 AVc got over that time, and wc have since funded a certain portion of our means, in order, 
 that if unfortunately any such pressure should come on us again, we may not be obliged
 
 EVIDENCE. 1!)7 
 
 to ask assistance, or find ourselves not able to give assistance to our masters, and in fact, Kudlin. 
 
 to pay tlieir salaries without any diminution. \Vc liave created a fund for tiiis nurposc; „, ,, 
 
 we do not intend to make it ver^' large, but wc tlioiiglit it necessary to have it. Srhouh fmmdud Im 
 
 22882. In the maintenance of iMiglisli schools your first outlay is the masters' salary. ICr/iKums HmUh, Kst/. 
 It ap[)e.irs to me, tliat the average! amount of tlie salaries paid to your masters of l'"nglisli John Karlow, Ksq. 
 schools is rather low. — Well, it is lower than we wisii, but in general thcic are additions 
 to our salaries, not only from local contributions, but in many cases our schoolmasters hold 
 .'situations as parish clerks, at £10 or £l2 a year, and also receive the small p.-iyments made 
 by the pupils attending the school. We weuld, however, be glad to give a little more to 
 our masters. 
 
 2288:5. Ne.\t, as to the training of the masters. 1 oh.s(>rve that a former body of rules 
 for tlie management uf your I'higlish schools contained a ]jrovisi()n that tiie masters recom- 
 mended by the local patrons should go through si.\- months' training in some training school, 
 and that the expense of that training should be borne partly by the Governors, and partly by 
 the local patrons. You have given up that regulation, and you now, 1 believe, receive the 
 masters without imposing on them the obligation ol' undergoing any course of tiiiining ? — 
 We generally find that we c.ui lie stipplied with eflicient teachers without ado[)ting this 
 plan. There is a general systcnn of training going on in this country for a great many 
 years, and a better class of persons is now applying than when we were in the habit of 
 training. 
 
 22884. Is there any sucli system of training schoolmasters in existence in this country, 
 as can furnish you with a sufficient number of trained schoolmasters"? — We have found no 
 difliculty, but perha[)s tlu^y ought to be of a better class. The Kildare-place Society trained 
 a very large number, and now the Church lulucation Society are training. 
 
 22885. Still the total number of trained schoolmasters is, I am afraid, far short of the 
 wants of the country. — 1 am sure it is, but the A'ational Board are training a very large 
 number. 
 
 22886. Ton mentioned that in order to secure the efficiency of the masters of these 
 English schools, your inspector satisfies himself as to the mode in which they have dis- 
 charged their duties. Do you know is he able, in his inspections, to devote sufficient time 
 to ascertain whether the masters pursue a good system of instruction. Does ho direct 
 the masters to examine and teach a class in his presence? — I believe that he generally 
 examines himself; l>ut if he has any doubt of the capacity of the master, I should think 
 that he insists on having the children examined by the master. As to the time he spends 
 in the school, I am quite sure he gives sufficient, or if he has not sufficient time it is his own 
 fault, and he ought to tell the (lovernors so, who would take care that he should have 
 time. We find, and we hope and believe he docs give a sufficient portion of his time to the 
 examination of the different .schools; but I believe the fact is, he always examines himself. 
 
 22887. In order to secure the efficiency of the schoolmaster, he tests the proficiency of 
 the scholars? — Yes. 
 
 22888. When the inspector was examined on a previous occasion before the Commi.s- 
 .sioners, he stated that he gave two hours, or two hours and a-half to the ordinary schools, 
 but that where the schools required it he devoted a greater length of time. He also stated 
 that he did not examine all the classes, or all the children ; that he took a certain number 
 of the best i-eaders- those pupils who were returned to him by the master, as being the 
 best readei's, and examined them. Do you not think it would be desirable that the 
 inspector should examine every class, and every pupil in every class? — Certainly I do; 
 and 1 did believe tliat that was the practice. As to his testimony before the Commissioners; 
 I know nothing; 1 was not present, and have not read it. I am speaking from recollection, 
 but as he is present, I am not likely to misrepresent him, without his taking the pains to 
 correct me. In his presence, I certainly do say, that 1 believe he examined every class in 
 every school. 
 
 22889. I believe it would be impossible for him to do so within the time that he has 
 available for the purpose ? — Then more time should be given to him. 
 
 22890. Are you aware when the inspection of your English schools commenced ? — No. 
 
 22891. |Kcv. //. Ihimilton In 1829. or 1830". 
 
 22892. Would you be so good as to turn to your committee book. No. 3? — I have the 
 letter of the newly appointed inspectors before me, dated 2nd January, 1830, and the 
 resolutions under which they were appointed in 1829.] 
 
 22S93. The registrar having tliat letter before him will be able to correct me if I mis- 
 state its purport. The newly-appointed inspectors of the schools mention there the 
 amount of duty to be performed by them, and address a remonstrance to the Governors, 
 alleging that the salary is inadequate. They represent, that to inspect the number of 
 English schools which was then about the same that it is at jji-esent, would occupv, 
 without any intermission, over si.'c months— that is, three months each; for the inspection 
 of the schools was then intrusted to two inspectors. I now de.sire to know, whether the 
 Governors changed their system, and appointed a single inspector instead of having two, 
 from motives of economy '' — Well, I think it was. 
 
 22894. Having sonicihing to do with the inspection of schools, I can hardly believe it 
 would be possible for an inspector to inspect a school in a satisfactory manner, without 
 devoting his entire day to it, so as to ascertain the progress made by each individual 
 scholar, and the efficiency of the master as a teacher. He should make inquiries on the 
 spot relative to the teacher's character, and many other circumstances which it would be - 
 desirable to know ? — The efficiency of the teacher might be ascertained on the first visit.
 
 198 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DuisLiN. 22895. That maj be the case, provided tlierc is a good deal of local inspection, or 
 visitation of persons in the neighbourhood, who are interested in the well-being of the 
 
 'J'he Governors of t/ie gdiool; but I cannot believe that an efficient inspection of a school can be conducted in 
 
 Erasmus' Smiih, Esq. two or tlirce Jiours. 
 
 John liavlow, Escj. 22896. [Rev. //. Hamilton. — Perhaps you would allow me to put a question to Mr. 
 
 Barlow. No man can tell better than Dr. Graves, how long it would take to conduct an 
 examination, and the length of time it would take to put a certain number of questions.] 
 
 22897. I would rather confine my examination at jjrescnt to LIr. Barlow, and any infor- 
 mation you wish to convey to the Commissioners, you can communicate it through him. — I 
 understand Dr. Graves, and I should say in no case are two or three hours sufficient. Some 
 of our scliools are unfortunately very small, and do not take as much of the inspector's 
 time as if they were more numerously attended ; but for myself 1 would say, not having 
 much experience in this matter, that every class, of course, should be examined by the 
 inspector — that a school of ordinary numbers could not be inspected in two or three hours. 
 I would say before our inspector, that if he has not had sufficient time to do it to his own 
 satisfaction, the Governors would make time for him to do it. 
 
 22S98. Is the inspector of your schools in any way aided by the inspector on the part 
 of the Church Education Society ? — Some of our schools are inspected by him. AVe do not 
 object to the inspector of the Church Education Society visiting our schools ; so that he 
 perfectly imderstands that he is not to lay down any rules, or in the slightest way interfere 
 with our regulations, or qualify them in any manner whatever ; but we think it an advantage 
 to have the insjiector of the Church Education Society's schools visiting our schools, and 
 taking an interest in them. 
 
 22899. Do you receive a copy of the report made by him? — None whatever. 
 
 22900. Then he does not visit in an official character, and under your sanction ? — No. 
 
 22901. Does his inspection disjiense with the ins])ection of the school by your own 
 inspector, at the next regularly recurring period? — Never. 
 
 22902. One of your masters when examined before the Commissioners, stated that he 
 received part of his salary from the Church Education Society, and he also said he was 
 tinder the authority of the Church Education Society ? — That has never reached the ears 
 of the Governors, and if it had, it would not have been allowed. 1 am speaking from 
 recollection. If any part of the salary was paid by the Church Education Society, or any 
 direction taken from their insjiector, or througli him, the Governors would decidedly 
 object to it. 
 
 22S03. It is unnecessary to dwell on the point, the fact being as you state, there is no 
 divided authority ? — Certainly not. 
 
 22904. The masters of your schools arc not tnider the authority of any other board? — 
 Certainly not. 
 
 22905. With regard to the efficiency of the schools, another point remaining to be noticed 
 is the supply of school requisites. On several occasions it has been stated to the Commis- 
 sioners, that your English schools are not adequately supplied with books. — Upon that point, 
 I wish to say that the Governors are most anxious that they sliould be adequately sup- 
 plied. The rule of the board is, that every English school making a proper apjilication 
 for school requisites, the number of children in attendance, and the number of books 
 required, being taken into consideration, should get half, upon the other half being 
 supplied I'rom local sources. We have frequently, and particularly in the years 1847 and 
 1S4S, deviated from that rule, by giving the entire where we thouglit they could not other- 
 wise be obtained ; but our general rule is, to give one-half the school requisites. They are 
 given on the report of the inspector, when he visits the school. 
 
 22906. Chairman The master of Erasmus Smith's school, at Innishannon, in answer 
 
 to the question — *" You have no salary except what you receive from Erasmus Smith's 
 Board?" says, "No; except last year that 1 received a gratuity from the Incorporated 
 Society : " is tiiat contrary to your rules? — I shoidd say we do not allow our masters to 
 receive any a.ssistance. 
 
 22907. This was a gratuity — If it came before the Governors they would not have allowed 
 it : but it may have been the case. 
 
 2290S. Rev. Dr. Graves. — With regard to the supply of requisites, I have before mo 
 part of the evidence of the Rev. Robert Card, su])crintendent of Erasmus Smith's School 
 at Longford. There it appears tliat although the school is an Erasmus Smith's School, the 
 school requisites are su])plied by the Churcii Education Society; and the witness being 
 asked by one of the Commissionersf whether they were adequately supplied or not, as to 
 quantity and quality, says as to quality they are the books required to be taught by the 
 Churcii Education Society, but as to quantity, they are not adecjuately supplied. — My 
 answer to tliat is, that we never were applied to by that school for school requisites, 
 nor has it been reported to us that they were wanted ; 1 distinctly state both of those 
 facts, witiiout looking to any minute of the board. There was no report made to us that 
 th(;y were wanted; and if they had been applied for, they would have liad them. 
 
 22909. It is unnecessary to mention other cases of the same kind, but they have occurred ; 
 and complaints were made to us that the schools were not adecpiately supplied with requi- 
 sites by the Governors? — 1 suppose there is no objection to our registrar writing to 
 tliat gentleman to know wiietlier he ever applied to tiio Governors for scliool requisites, 
 and if lio did, what reply he got ; 1 wish to satisfy you that no application has ever been 
 blade to us. 
 
 * Evidence, 1686. t KvMcncc, 7003.
 
 EVIDENCE. 1 !)() 
 
 22910. The school at Sligo is, I believe, one of the most efficient English schools under Dubus. 
 
 the management of tlic Iioard ? — It in a most excellent .scliool. ,, ^ — - 
 
 22<jll. The Conunissioner« had not the opportunity of seeing it in operation; the '"'^'^"'•'^/•or'of''"' 
 scholars were dismissed on tlic occasion tliat we visited it, ovi'ing to a misapprehension on JCmsmus'SmUli, Esq. 
 the part of the master ; but in the course of the investigation which took place at Sligo .Tolm Barlow, Ksq.' 
 into the afi'airs of the school, it appeared that the number of scholars taught by the one 
 master amountcul to close upon 100; the Governors cannot be of opinion that one master 
 is suflicieiit to teach a school of that number? - I do not think tliat one master is sufficient. 
 As I mentioned a while ago, I never visited our schools except by accident ; but it so hap- 
 pened I visited this very school at Sligo, when there on other Imsiness ; I was accompanied 
 by the rector and curate of the parish ; I was never more pleased with any school than 
 with the Sligo school ; the master did not know I was to be there, or if he did, he did not 
 know who I was; I was there for three hours, and never saw boys manifest more complete 
 proficiency in the various matters taught; the master had eighty pupils in the school on 
 the day I attended, and it did appear to me that he could not himself manage the school, 
 but he said he had excellent monitors ; the clergyman who was with me said the master's 
 attention was indefatigable, that he not only had their confidence, but that in every respect 
 he was a most excellent master. On my return to town I reported to the Governors, and 
 the Governors, in consequence of my report, sent the master £10 ; the Governors also on 
 that account raised hi.s salary. 
 
 221) 12. llis diligence and exertions seem to be very remarkable, but it is scarcely pos- 
 sible for one master to teach so many boys ? — We have no power to pay an assi.stant. 
 
 •J2913. Then, generally, 1 am to conclude that it is the opinion of the Governors that they 
 are ablq, with their present resources, to keep this large number of English schools in a state 
 of perfect efficiency as regards inspection, the competency of the master, the supply of 
 school requisites, and whatever is generally necessary to secure the efficiency of an English 
 school ? — 1 think so; and I may say in confirmation of that, I had some time ago an estimate 
 taken of the income and expenditure, and I think that our present income and liabilities to 
 our schoolmasters would leave us fiom £500 to £(iOO a-year; so that we will be able to 
 do something more than we have been doing i'or our English schools. 
 
 22914. To maintain the English schools in an efficient state, you must devote to their 
 maintenance a sum three or four times larger than that which you devote to the main- 
 tenance of your grammar schools ? — Oh, yes. 
 
 229 lo. Hut Dr. Cullinan would say, and it would be very hard to dispute his statement, 
 that the claims of the English schools are subordinate to those of the grammar schools? — 
 The opinion of the Governors, 1 think, is that we are doing quite as much good in our English 
 schools as we are in our grammar schools. 
 
 229 IG. But are you acting in accordance with the spirit of your charter? — I do not 
 mean to say we should not give more to our grammar schools, but I think any thing more 
 which might be given them, will not put them in a more efficient state than they are, in 
 the present state of education. 
 
 22917. Are they the most efficient classical schools in Ireland? — No, they are not. 
 
 22918. What other schools are more efficient? — 1 think the Armagh school and the 
 Dungannon school are more efficient. 
 
 22919. What is it that contributes to their efficiency? — I do not wish to compare the 
 masters of our establishment, but 1 do not think they are sufficiently 
 
 22920. Are means adopted to secure the efficiency of the Royal schools which you do 
 not think it your duty to take in the case of your grammar schools ? — We could not attempt 
 to compete with the endowments of the Dungannon and Armagh schools ; Armagh has 
 several hundreds a-year. 
 
 22921 j\Iight not the efficiency of your grammar schools be increased by making the 
 exhibitions in connexion with them operative ; they are at present, it must be admitted, 
 almost inoperative? — They are very low, and 1 think it would be well to raise them; and 
 if wo could establish that right which you have mentioned in Trinity College, it would 
 also be a great privilege to our grammar schools. 
 
 22922. When the value of an exhibition was fixed at either £8 or £0, in the year 1723, 
 what do you suppose was the value of a scholarship in Trinity College ? — I cannot answer 
 that, but I think I could answer you in another way, that if the value of an exhibi- 
 tion was £6 or £S in 1720, that perhaps £20 or £30 would not be more than the pro- 
 portion now. 
 
 23923. The salaries of the ordinary scholars of Trinity College were fixed by an order, 
 dated, I think, 1721, at £2 10.*. a-year, they had been previously £1 ds.; and another class 
 of scholars, who had been previou.sly entitled to salaries of £3 a-year, had their emolu- 
 ments raised to £15 a-year; but the salaries of the ordinary scholars in 1721 were only 
 £2 10s. a-year; and in 1723, the exhibitions in connexion with the grammar schools under 
 your board, wore raised from £G to 1'8 : these amounts indicate the stimulus that they were 
 intended to aiibrd to education in the grammar schools ; they were intended to give rise 
 to considerable competition; but it is quite clear, now that the scholarships in Trinity 
 College are raised to £20 a-year, the exhibitions cannot produce the competitive effect that 
 they were designed to produce? — I think not. 
 
 22924. Then, in order to accomplish the design of the founder, as expressed in the 
 charter, it appears that it would bo desirable to increase those exhibitions ; consolidated 
 they cannot be, because the number of them is fixed by Act of Parliament ? — Yes.
 
 200 
 
 ENDOWED SCUOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DOBLIN. 
 
 The G'lvernors of the 
 
 Schools fmniHcil by 
 Erasiitiia Sniithf E^q. 
 
 >ohn Barlow. Esq. 
 
 22925. You justifiod the establishment of English scliool.s, by reference to tlie circum- 
 stances of the country, because about the year 1811 there wa.s a great want of primary 
 schools. There is now a very great want of a much higher cla.ss of scliools in tiio cnuntry. 
 The creation of efficient primary schools, has, 1 believe, in a great measure diminished the 
 number of higher schools available for the education of the middle class, throughout the 
 country. Under these circumstances, would not the Governors feel warranted in increasing 
 considerably their expenditure upon the grammar schools, with the view of enabling the 
 middle class to obtain that kind of instruction which they cannot get through the agency 
 of the National Board':' — That would impose upon us tlie necessity of withdrawing some of 
 our English schools, because if we kept up the number we have at present, along with the 
 grammar schools, and perhaps, did more for tlie former than we do at present, it is plain we 
 could not, to any great extent, increase the e.\])enditurc on our three grammar schools. 
 
 22926. I offer no opinion, on the part of the Commit sioners, with respect to the efficiency 
 of the English school system. Are you satisfied that you are doing the greatest amount 
 of good, and in a j)crlectly legal way dispensing the funds under the present arrangement? 
 — 1 would rather increase, iff could, the usefulness of our luiglish schools. 
 
 22927- Although you must admit that the establishment of grammar schools is the priirary 
 object indicated by the charter, which makes no mention of luiglish schools? — 1 think 1 
 should do more for the grammar schools, than at present, but I should be son-y to give up 
 our English schools. 
 
 22928. The Marquess of Kildare has referred to the case which was alluded to just now ; 
 it is the case of the master of the l-^rasmus Smith's school, at rallasgreen. 1 examined 
 Mr. Thomas Murphy with rcferer.ce to the inspection, and visitation of his school, bj' a 
 clergyman, and I asked,* " Do you receive orders from hini (that is, orders from the l!ev. 
 Mr. Scott. j as authorized by the Governors to give you directions? — No ; my school is in 
 connexion with the Church Education Society, and the rules of the Church Education 
 Society are to be observed in the schooL I asked, — Then under what authority are you ; 
 are you under the authority of the Church Education Society, or under the authority of the 
 Governors of the Eoard of Erasn)us Smith's Schools';' — Under botli. It seems the Church 
 Education Society has the control over it, as the school was received into connexion with 
 them ; their inspector comes over and inspects the school." I ask, Is that with the consent 
 of the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Schools? — It is. 
 
 22929. Does the Church Education Society contribute funds towards the maintenance 
 of the school ? — Not that I am aware of. 
 
 22930 Neither to the salary of the schoolmaster nor to the purchase of school requisites? 
 — 1 do not know whether they have contributed any thing to the scliool requisites or not. 
 I do not think they have. But he states that he receives no salary or gratuity from the 
 Cliurch Education Society. — Palla.sgreen is a school, above all others, which we would not, 
 on any account, allow to be interfered with ; it is principally attended by our own tenantry, 
 and all I can say is, it is the first time I ever heard of any tiling of the kind, until that 
 examination took place. — Pallasgreen school has been ours from beginning to end, and we 
 have done more for it than for any of our schools. Early in the year J 854 we had a new 
 agent. ^Ir. Kearney, appointed, and there was an order made by the Governors that he 
 should ])ay every attention to that scho(d. tliat he shouhl give clothing to the deserving 
 children of our tenantry attending that scliool. and that premiums should be given to them, 
 which were not given to the other children. Tiio entire of the master's salary is ])aid by us ; 
 we raised, and we authorized our agent to improve the house and premises, so that they 
 should have a creditable appearance, because they were on our i)roperty. I will read a 
 minute of the staufling committee dated 14th December, ISS."? : — •' The meeting having 
 considered the recommendation of the sub committee with regard to the luiglish schools, 
 Ordered — Tliat pecuniary premiums be given to such of the children as attend regularly. 
 * * * And it was further ordered — That this ]dan be conimuin'cated to Mr. Kearney, with 
 the Governors' request that he will suggest in what manner the Governors might particu- 
 lai'ly encourage the masters and children of the schools at ralla.sgreen and Tij)])erary, on 
 their estates, the Governors being willing to contribute a small i>ortion of their funds to 
 do tin's; and also, requesting that Mr. Kearney and his family will continue to visit the 
 Palla.sgreen school.'' Then follows the minute of the standing committee of 11th 
 ,'anuary, 1S.")4 : — " Bead letters from Mr. Kearney, as re(|uestcd at last meeting, conveying 
 suggestions for the improvement and encouragement of the schools at Pallasgreen and 
 Tipperary: Ordered — That an additional salary of £5 be given to each of the masters of 
 these schools, and that the Governors will place at the disposal of Mv. Kearney's family, 
 £20 ])er annum, for the ]irescnt, to be expended in suitable clothing for the deserving 
 children resilient on their estates, and regularly attending these schools; and the 
 Cjovernors further request Mr. Kearney to have both these houses, as well as the land 
 attached to them, put into oider, so that their ap])ear;uice may be neat and creditable, and 
 Mr. Kearney be informed that some of the Governors hope to visit these schools next 
 summer." 1 have also in my hand an account of the money expended, which is equal to 
 treble the money expended on other parish schools. It is a great error to suppose for a 
 moment that the schocd is under the Chuich Education Society. 
 
 22 ).'?!. I have in my hand the l''ourth lleport of the Church Education Society in Ire- 
 land, dated 184.3. and in it 1 find, that the Erasmus Smith's school, Templemore, is in 
 connexion with the Church Education Society. At the same time I am told that it is 
 
 • E>il.ic\ ■■Ail. 
 
 J
 
 EVIDENCE. 201 
 
 contrary to your ruU-s to place schools in connexion with other societies? — It is contrary Dojjli.v. 
 
 to our rules to alluw any iMterf'ereiice with our schools, or to allow them to establish rules 
 
 or regulations tor their management ; but if the Church lllducation Society's inspector visits S(i,o"uf"mid"il Im 
 our schools, and docs not attempt to interfere with our rules and regulations, we do not Ki-iismiis Smiih, Esii. 
 only tolerate it, but we arc glad of it. Julin finrlow. V,m\. 
 
 22932. 1 will now ])ass to the other points noticed Ijy Dr. Cnlliiian. lie is asked in what 
 respect have tlie Covernors nifringed the Act of I'arlianient. and he replied,' "They do not 
 clotlie the hoys, nor put them out as a[)[)rimtices, nor exercise any control over the masters,'' 
 and that the schools are not directeil and visited by the Governors. Vou have already 
 admitted that the grammar schools are not visited by the Governors, though it is directed 
 by the charter; and as regards the clothing of the boys, and putting them out as appren- 
 tices, are any of the boys now in the grannnar schools, or in any of your schools, clothed ? 
 — They are not. 
 
 22.133. Are any of the boys now j)nt out as ap])rentices ? — Not any. 
 
 22934. E.\cept such as are educated in connexion with the Blue Coat Hospital? — Yes; 
 that is the distinction. 
 
 22935. iiut the boys in your own schools are not put out as apprentices? — No. 
 2293(i. Are you aware that tliat was done to a very groat extent, in former times? — Yes. 
 22937. Can you give any explanation of the change in the practice?- — 1 am not aware of 
 
 what was the cause. 
 
 2293S. Do you think it arose from the circumstance of the boys educated in the schools 
 being of a different class? — Perhaps it did, but I cannot say. The practice was discon- 
 tinued long before I joined the board, and I have never heard the question discussed. 
 
 22939. But you have noticed that provision was made for the clothing and apprenticing 
 of the boys, and even a clause as to their being apprenticed to Protestant masters? — I did. 
 
 22940. I lind in looking over your records that it was usual to call on the masters of the 
 grammar schools to make annual returns of the boys who were jjropcr objects to put out 
 as apprentices trom their schools? — It must be a great while ago. 
 
 22941. Yes; but it indicated the views of the Governors at the time? — Certainly. 
 
 22942. And at the same time that pupils educated in the grammar schools were sent 
 out as ap]»rentices, other pupils in the same grammar schools, persons of good family and 
 ample means, went into the university, or into the army. Here is a list of boys educated, 
 in a particular year, in the grammar schools, in which it is stated that some Ment into the 
 army, others to college, and others went out as apprentices. A very considerable number, 
 at that time, went out as apprentices ; as many as twelve in one year, from one school ? — 
 Yes. 
 
 22943. These facts bear upon the question, as to the class of persons whom these schools 
 were intended to benelit?— They do. 
 
 22944. Chairman. — The Commissioners pi'opose to adjourn now. and resume this 
 
 * Evidence, 4057. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 D
 
 202 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DrsLiN. 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded by 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 — continued. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 Dublin, May 15, 1856. 
 
 Present: — Marquess of Kildare, Chairman; Rev. Dr. Graves, Dr. Andrews, and 
 
 Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. — (continued). 
 
 John Barlow, Esq., further examined. 
 
 22945. Rev. Dr. Graves. — One of the charges brought by Dr. Cullinan, in his evidence 
 before the Commissioners, at Ennis,* was, that the Governors and master at Ennis opposed 
 some obstruction to education in that place. In his statement he refers to the instruction 
 given by the French master, and, I believe, that his statement was not in any respect 
 contradicted by Dr. King. We only ask now, whether you have any explanation to 
 offer with regard to that matter, or any corrections to make upon the statements of Dr. 
 Culhnan aud Dr. King? — I think that the Governors bad a letter from Dr. Cullinan, com- 
 plaining that the French master was not allowed to give instruction in the town of Ennis. 
 
 22946. To boys? — To boys. I think his complaint referi-ed generally to boys and 
 girls — at all events it included boys. We referred that letter to Dr. King ; and Dr. King 
 showed us, so far as our judgment went, that we ought not to interfere with him. Dr. 
 King had this master employed for his own purposes ; and, I believe, the impression on 
 Dr. King's mind was, that it would interfere with his school if he was allowed to give 
 private tuition in the town. However, the Governors thought that that was a matter for 
 Dr. King, and not for them to arrange, and we left it with him. 
 
 22947. Is not the question, however, with regard to the use to be made of the 
 opportunity of obtaining instruction in French most closely connected with another, 
 namely, that which relates to the charges for day scholars in the school. If the charges 
 for day scholars were moderate, it is to be supposed that persons in the town of Ennis 
 would be wilHng to send their sons to a school where they might receive instruction in 
 French, and instruction of other kinds besides? — I think that the charge ought to be 
 as moderate as the schoolmaster would consider to afford a fair remuneration for his time 
 and talents. I think that the charge ought to be very moderate certainlj'. 
 
 22948. Do you consider that you have not such power to interfere with the masters of 
 the grammar schools as to enable you to modify their charges for the reception of pupils? 
 — I have no doubt but the Governors could do so. 
 
 22949- But have you done so? — I think we remonstrated where we thought them too 
 high. 
 
 229.50. I think you interfered in the case of the Tipperary School? — We did; and 1 
 wish it to be understood that we conceive we have the power of interference where we 
 consider it desirable. 
 
 22951. The schools are so much your schools that you consider yourselves entitled to 
 interfere with the masters as regards their scale of charges ? — Certainly ; we consider 
 these schools under our control ; and if tliere is mismanagement, I think, to a certain 
 extent, we are answerable. The French master was brought to Ennis by Dr. King, at his 
 own cost, as was the case in Drogheda. I think we should not consider ourselves 
 justified in interfering in this case. And again it might be fairly said, if the master 
 allowed the French teacher to do extra work, it could not bo supposed that he would 
 give that time and attention to his pupils which they had a right to expect. I am sure if 
 such a representation was made to us we would not have interfered. 
 
 22952. On tlie whole, however, the matter comes to this, that the statement made by 
 Dr. Cullinan is not disputed ? — Oh, no ; the act was Dr. King's, and the step he took was 
 one which he was justified in taking. 
 
 22953. You mean to say you were applied to formally, and you directed your registrar 
 to .state that you would not directly licar the com])laint, and if called on you would not 
 interfere with Dr. King? — That is precisely what took place. 
 
 22954. I will now pa.ss to the next point noticed by Dr. Culhnan. f He stated he would 
 make a statement with regard to some alleged property the Governors had in the neigh- 
 bourhood, said to be lost? — Perhaps I could shorten tliis portion of the examination by 
 stating, tliat this is a subject more for our solicitor than for me. He knows a great deal 
 more about it than I do ; for when tliis took ])laco 1 was not on the board, and am j)cr- 
 fectly ign(jraiit of the wliole matter; but if any one can give you direct information, it is 
 Mr. F( thcrstone. 
 
 229"'5. The question lies over for further consideration, and we will examine the law 
 agent in respect to it? — I recollect enough to say that Mr. Fetherstone will satisfy the Com- 
 missioners on that point. 
 
 22956. The sixtli point noticed by Dr. Cullinan is a ])cnsion said to be paid by the 
 Governors to a certain gentleman. AVitli reference to that Dr. Cullinan stated, J that "Dr. 
 King has given you as mucli information on tliat suliject as 1 can give ; but there is more 
 to be inquired into about it. Tiie reason I mention tlie matter is, that the return by the 
 Governors to I'arliamcnt is not full ami satisfactory. It does not appear on the face of 
 that return there were any pensions. They purport to give a return of expenditure, and 
 make no mention of pensions." This f|uostion relative to pensions was fully gone into yes- 
 terday, and I see no occasion to re-open it at present. It is admitted l)y the Governors that 
 
 • Evidence, 406?. f Evidence, 4' C8. J Evidence, 40so,
 
 EVIDENCE. 203 
 
 they have occasionally given retiring allowances, but that they have not laid down any Dublin. 
 
 regular system witli regard to the granting of retiring allowances to their schoolmasters, 
 
 whetlier masters of the grammar schools or of the English schools ; and that they enter- sc/wuk/mmJedl/'' 
 tain a doubt as to whether they have power to grant pensions? — I have declined to say Enmnm Smiih, Esq. 
 that wo have not the power. Our attention has been called to the subject recently by Julm IJarlow, Esq. 
 Dr. King himself asking a pension; and when it was brought before the Governors they 
 considered it a good deal, and, certainly, their oiiinion was tiiat tliey had not power to pension. 
 
 '22957. The seventh point to which Dr. Culliiian directed the attention of the C'onnnis- 
 sioners has been already incidentally noticed, lie referred to the e.xiiibitions jjrovided 
 for Erasmus Smith's schools, and stated his opinion, that they ought to be consolidated 
 by being lessened in numbers and increased in value. We have already seen that it ia 
 not possible to consolidate them, because the number of them is fi.xed by Act of I'arliamcnt ; 
 but the Governors seemed to iiitimat(! their opinion that they might advantageously bo 
 increased, if they arc designed to j)roduce those results which were contemplated at the 
 time of their institution '? — That is the opinion tliey expressed. 
 
 229.58. The next point urged by Dr. CuUinan was that he did not consider the educa- 
 tion given at the endowed school at Ennis had produced satisfactory results. With 
 reference to this Dr. Cullinan stated at the time — *" 1 think I will withdraw that statement ; 
 it was partly founded upon the fact that the exhibitions which 1 thought we were entitled 
 to were not given to us; and again, we certainly do not appear to such advantage in com- 
 peting with our neighbours, as, 1 think, we ought. However, when 1 state that, 1 would be 
 sorry to have it supposed 1 meant to impute any thing to Dr. King ; on the contrary, he is 
 most zealous and efficient in the discharge of his duties ; but I do think it is partly attri- 
 butable to his not having efficient and first-class assistants. I do not think he has sufficient 
 in quality or quantity. I mention the fact as beyond controversy ; though Dr. King thinks 
 his school has produced very efficient results, 1 think it has not produced such results as 
 it ought to produce. I attribute that not to any deficiency on his part, or want of zeal, 
 or scruple in the discharge of his duties, but the want of such efficient assistants as would 
 enable us to compete with more favoured localities. I think it would be well for the Com- 
 missioners to inquire as to the mode in which the assistants are paid, 1 should make this 
 observation that Dr. King's principal assistant is overworked ; he is obliged to discharge 
 onerous duties in the evenings, teaching — teaching the boarders, and he is occupied all day; 
 he should get a larger amount of compensation than he probably receives for such services ; 
 and he should be a better class-man than Dr. King is able to provide for the allowance. I 
 do not mean to disparage the gentleman who is assistant ; but I think better might be 
 found." Have you any explanation to offer on this head ? — The subject of our schools 
 generally was partly considered by the Governors. They certainly have fallen off, we 
 think, which is to be attributed to a great many causes; and the inference drawn hy Dr. 
 Cullinan is not exactly the correct one. The system of education in Ireland, as I stated 
 yesterday, has greatly changed. There are facilities now for going all over the kingdom 
 that there were not in old times. Then as to the schools, up to the year 1847 or 1848 
 (the famine year), we had very large schools. The schools were then much broken up, 
 and they have never recovered ; and 1 know that all over the country the number of 
 pupils attending in the schools are greatly diminished, notwithstanding that we liave made 
 every effort to make them efficient — that is, with every desire to keep up our number if 
 we can. 
 
 22959. I do not think it necessary to go very fully into the matter, as it has been 
 inquired into at considerable length yesterday ; but I would put it generally to the 
 Governors whether they do not think it possible, if they did for their grammar schools 
 what has been done for the other grammar schools which are now in a flourishing state, 
 results of the same kind might not be reasonably anticipated? — If we thought that, we 
 would give them more assistance ; but then to the master of the Ennis school we give £27() 
 a-year for himself and his assistants. He has also a house and other advantages, which 
 I stated yesterday ; but notwithstanding what we have done for the grammar schools, 
 more, probably, might be done ; but our strong opinion is, that the Enghsli schools are 
 particularly useful to the country. 
 
 22960. The efficiency of your grammar scliools, and, at the same time, the expenditure on 
 them, are matters most intimately connected with the maintenance of your English schools ; 
 and it is unnecessary to repeat the question which was asked with regard to that subject 
 yesterday. In connexion with the liead just noticed — namelj^ the results produced by the 
 education given at the endowed school at Ennis — Dr. Cullinan next noticed the manner of 
 paying and engaging assistant masters. We have already inquired into that ; but there 
 are one or two points on which 1 wish to get some information before we pass to the next 
 head. Generally speaking, there is an usher provided by the Governors, in conformity 
 with the charter : is that usher appointed by the Governors ? — He is recommended to us 
 by the master, and must be appointed by the Governors. His appointment must be direct 
 from the Governors ; but we always facilitate the master as to his assistant. I have no 
 recollection of our board ever having appointed an assistant without a direct communica- 
 tion with the master, and without the approval of the master. That is always the case. 
 
 22961. The usher in Drogheda appears to have held a higher position than the other 
 ushers '? — Yes ; he is called the second master in the Drogheda school, and he has exclu- 
 sively a house for his own residence. 
 
 229(32. And have not the second masters of Drogheda been occasionally promoted to 
 
 * Eviderce, 4 '81. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 D 2
 
 i>0-i ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Diiti.iN. masterships in the grammar schools ? — Mr. HallowcU was promoted ; and Dr. King, 1 
 
 . • , remember, was second usher in Drogheda. 
 
 Schml"tl'miided L'l' 22963. That is connected with the point to which I think attention oiiglit to be 
 
 Eriisinn-' Smith. E\<i. directed — namely, the establishment of some system of promotion among your masters — 
 
 .Toliii r.nrltiw, F.«|. no such system has been laid down ? — No regular system : but whenever we are able to 
 
 promote one of our second masters we have done so ; and that is proved by the appointment 
 
 to Galway of Mr. Hallowell, who was usher in Drogheda school. Dr. King was himself 
 
 second master of Drogheda. 
 
 229(i4. What steps are taken to fill a situation in the granmiar schools when it becomes 
 vacant? — We always advertise. 
 
 221)6.5. Some witnesses before the Commissioners have proposed that these masterships 
 should be open to comijctition. Has that question ever been considered by the Gover- 
 nors ■? — It has not. 
 
 22960. There are qualities besides the mere power of standing an examination, which 
 have to be considered in the selection of a master? — A great many. 
 
 •i2967. Have you laid down any regulation with regard to the promotion of tlie masters 
 in tlie Englisli scliools? — We have not. Tliere is very little change in the masterships ; 
 and it would be dithcnlt to remove the masters of the English schools. 
 
 22968. It is part of the school system in other countries, and is found to produce the 
 best results ? — Our masters have very small salaries ; but they hold other situations, as 
 parish clerks. We do not tliink we ought to interfere with that ; but I do not mean to 
 say it would not be useful ; but we have not practised it. Masters have been changed, 
 but more at their own desire than at the desire of the Governors. 
 
 22969- The assistant masters are paid directly by the (iovernors, and not through the 
 hands of the head masters ? — Directly, because I am perfectly aware of having passed the 
 receipts over and over again. 
 
 22970. The head master of the school would not have the power of making any deduc- 
 tions from the stipends allowed to the assistant masters ? — None whatever. 
 
 22971. I mean out of tlie salaries pirovided by the Governors? — Certainly not. 
 
 22972. Have the head masters absolute power to discharge the assistant masters? — 1 
 should say virtually they have, but they must always report the fact to the Governors, and 
 if the Governors thought there was not cause, they would make inquiries ; but virtually 
 they have the power. 
 
 22973. Dr. CuUinan suggests an inquiry as to the prizes given by the Primate — what 
 are these prizes, and what are the regulations respecting the distribution of them ? — I re.illy 
 know nothing abnut them. 
 
 22974. Dr. Cullinan says,* " I see by prospectus of the Drogheda school, the master 
 states, ' the Primate gives some prizes to be competed for by the jjupils of all the grammar 
 schools.' " — I never heard of them. 
 
 22975. Dr. Cullinan also suggests the propriety of admitting free pupils on the founda- 
 tion by concursus, and of giving a greater encouragement to this class. It appears that 
 the founder contemplated the admis.sion into each of the grammar schools of twenty pujiils. 
 If there are not twenty free jiupils in each school, is it because of there not being twenty 
 persons in the neighbourhood desirous to obtain such a privilege ; or because the Gover- 
 nors do not take proper steps to see that the privilege is enforced : has there ever been in 
 any of the grammar schools the full number of twenty ? — I am not aware that there was. 
 At Ennis there were a great many at one time. Seventeen is the greatest number we have 
 had, and tliat is the number now in Galway; but I am not aware that the number reached 
 the full extent. 
 
 22976. Now, docs it not strike the Governors, tliat tiio deficiency in the number of 
 foundation scliolars is in some respects a rellcction upon the efHciency of the schools. If 
 the schools arc in an efficient state, will not tlie education in them be so valuable that 
 parents in the neighbourhood who could not afford to procure a first-rate education for 
 their boys, would be a?ixious to obtain their admission on these terms? — There are 
 some circumstances wiiicii, 1 think, tend to liindor some ])arents sending their cliildrcn to 
 our scliools, hut 1 do not know how far tlicy operate ; but 1 am awar(? there arc in our 
 schools certain restrictions wliich are not in otiiers ; and, jieriiaps. that fact may ojierat*' 
 against them. I am, however, surprised there are not more persons taking advantage of them. 
 
 22977. The circumstances to which reference has been made, as operating to hinder 
 applications for admi.ssion, have either been supposed interference with religious instruction, 
 or the re])roach arising ii-oni the fact thatthes*; foundation scholarships were eleemosynary. — 
 No doubt there is that feeling in existence to a certain extent. I stated yesterday that the 
 Governors arc desirous to have as many i'rec pupils in their schools as they can, provided 
 that our rules are observed. W(! have taken jiains to accomplish this object by putting 
 advertisements in the papers. We have required that there shall be refercncG to ourselves, 
 and no interference on the ])art of the master, in order that, at all events, wc shall know 
 the grounds upon which they are refused, if refused. 
 
 22978. Notice was taken, yesterd.ay, of the views eiitertnined by the Governors, with 
 regard to the duty of the masters of the grammar schools, to impart religious instruction 
 to all ])upils. whether iioarders or day-scholars ; and it apjieared to me that the Governors 
 were of opinion that whatever had been the practice, the principle of the school was, that 
 religious instruction out of the Holy Scriptures ought to be given by the master to all tho 
 pu]iils ? — Undoubtedly. 
 
 • Kviilfiicf, -108.7.
 
 EVIDENCE. 205, 
 
 22970. Now if it was gcnorally announcod that that was the rogulation with vegard to tlio Duhm.n. 
 
 admission of pupils of all kinds, ]):iying as well as iVeo pupils, the essoiitially i^rotcstaut ,... 
 
 character of tin; instruction would operate as a reason why Jionian Catholic jjarents would Srlu'SJ i!"niM i,,',' 
 not seek admission for their children ? — I am afraid so. Knismua'Smidi. /;«/. 
 
 22980. Ou the other hand, is it not certain, as a matter of fact, that the masters of the J'*" 13:ii1oh-, K.«q. 
 grammar schools have not interfered in any way with the religions instruction of the 
 
 ]jupils? — 1 am afraid so ; hut I should say, whatever our impressions may ho, it is our 
 duty to SCO that the will of the founder is carried fully into effect ; and there can he no 
 doidit as to what his will was. I think it is the duty of a Governor either to see that the 
 rules laid down hy him arc conformed to, or if lie iloes not approve of them to resign his 
 seat at the hoard. 
 
 22981. Do you think it impossihle, tinder the regulations, to make such provision for 
 the religious instruction of the scliolars, as might enable Roman Catholic ])upils to 
 partake of the benefit of the schools? — If you mean that we should dis])ense with tho 
 reading of tho Bible, 1 think it is impossihle we could make such provisions. I find it 
 expressly stated in the charter, that the Churcli Catechism is to ho taught hy the master to 
 every child attending the school. 
 
 22982. .\rchhishi)p I'ssher's catechism ; hut that rule has become obsolete. The other 
 cause which has been already referred to, as operating to hinder applications i'or free admis- 
 sion, was the feeling that the pu])ils were the object of reproach, as receiving eleemosynary 
 assistance. Howcan that l)o diminished '? — As to that, I hope that it would not operate to the 
 extent supposed, hut even if it did I think the Governors could find the means of putting ' 
 an end to that feeling. There might be some small payment, a guinea, or something 
 iritliiig — which no one almost hut could pay — if they were unwilling that a charitable 
 education should be received by their children. Tho Governons \voiild endeavour to do 
 away with this feeling in every way they could. 
 
 22983. Would not IJr. Cullinan's proposition for admitting; free pupils on the foundation 
 by competition have the desired effect? — I do not think we have the power to make that 
 distinction. 1 do not think that the Governors, if they are otherwise satisfied that a chihl 
 ought to be admittetl, when we had not come up to our full numbers, could under the 
 present rules make that distinction. 
 
 22984. At all events, as soon as the number of applications exceeded the number of 
 admissions such a principle as that might be applied with advantage? — Certainlj' ; but I 
 am afraid at present I do not see any prospect of exceeding our numbers ; but if we do, 
 I should hope that the Governors would make such arrangements with the master, that 
 every child seeking the advantage of our schools should be admitted. We could do that 
 by increasing the salaries, and in other ways ; for I would bo very sorry to think that anj 
 child should bo kept out of our schools, because we had our full number. 
 
 22985. Are you aware that the position of sizars in Trinity College has been very much 
 improved in consequence of tho alteration in the mode of their admission. They were 
 originally appointed; but from the time that sizarships were granted to successful candidates 
 at a competitive examination, the i)lace of a sizar became an honourable one? — No doubt of it. 
 
 22986. Could any thing be done in the grammar schools, even at present, to conceal the 
 fact, that foundation ]jupils were educated gratuitously ? — Well, I do not think it would be 
 the province of the Governors to do so. It might, perhaps, be contrary to tho intention 
 of the founder to require the master to do so, but I would not have the slightest objection 
 that some small jiaymcnt sliould be made in order to remove tho objection that parents 
 entertain to sending their children. That is my view ; but I would prefer, certainly, that 
 the rules of the Governors should be properly carried out. 
 
 229S7. In the Uoyal schools free pupils are admitted, and the masters take pains to 
 conceal the fact from every person, with the exception of the Commissioners of Education, 
 in Clare-street, or tlie parents of the children? — I think it would be very wrong to give 
 any publicity, directly or indirectly, to the circumstance that one boy was a free pupil and 
 another was not. That fact should be kept out of view as far as possible, and 1 should 
 hope that this is the ca.se in our schools. 
 
 22988. Chalnnan. — \ wish to a.sk, have the Governoi's considered the expediency of 
 selecting free pupils from their English schools, by examination, with the view of placing 
 them in the grammar schools ? — Where the English schools are in the neighbourhood of the 
 grammar schools, and if a child exhibited considerable talent, I can see no objection to that 
 course ; on the contrary, I think the suggestion a very good one. Our inclination would 
 be to bring forward a deserving child in every way we could. I do not exactly know how 
 tar the schools would allow of that practice, but i am sure the Governors would endeavour 
 to meet your view. 
 
 22989. A similar course is pursued by the Incor])orated Society':' — I was not aware of 
 that, but I think tlie plan a very good one ; it could not be done to a very great extent. 
 Perhaps Dr. King would receive them. 
 
 22990. jSIy view was, that the Governors should pav for the board of the jnipil ? — I quite 
 comprehend your lordship's meaning, hut it could "not be carried to any great extent, 
 because it would rocpiire for each boy forty guineas a-year; but if your lordship contem- 
 plated that they should be taken as day-pupTls, 1 do not see any difficulty. 
 
 22991. 1 meant as boarders ; but even as to day-pupils, it would be a great advantage 
 to the grammar schools. 
 
 22992. Rev. Dr. Grave-f. — After making his statement and suggestions, Dr. Cullinan stated 
 his views as to the reforms which he thought ought to he made in the constitution of endowed
 
 206 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. schools generally. I have now noticed all the leading points brought under the notice 
 
 of the Commissioners, by Dr. Cullinau at Ennis ; and if the Governors who have had this 
 
 '^'scMsfmudedb''^ evidence before them, now desire to offer any fuither explanation with regard to Dr. Cul- 
 
 Erasmns 'SmM, Es<i. Unan's evidence, or any other matter which came before us at Ennis, we beg that they will 
 
 .Tolm Barlow, Esq. '''^'-'i" their observations now ? — Dr. Cullinan, as I have read his testimony, has reflected on 
 
 tlie manner in wliich the Governors have performed their duty, at their board meetings, 
 
 and matters of that kind, and if the Commissioners wish any information on that point I am 
 
 ready to give it. 
 
 22993. We have already inquired into that I think the Governors in Dublin do their 
 
 duty very creditably, and I do not at all admit what Dr. CuUinan has stated on the subject. 
 
 22994. Dr. Cullinan has stated, generally, tliat the e.r-ojjicio Governors do not attend; 
 and he founded that statement upon a Parliamentary return of the attendance for a year, 
 from which it appeared that only one ex-ojicio Governor had attended a meeting during 
 that time. I suppose he meant no more than what is confirmed by reference to that docu- 
 ment ■? — Dr. Cullinan went a great deal further ; he stated that a great number of the 
 members of the board do not live in the country at all ; that the board, in fact, was a myth. 
 I do not think it important to enter into tliis statement, if the Commissioners do not desire 
 me to do so, but I certainly give it a decided denial. 
 
 22995. 1 do not think it necessary on the part of the Commissioners to go into it, as we 
 have before us the returns of the attendance of the Governors, and it is a matter of opinion 
 whether that attendance is adequate or not ? — But the manner in which the duties are per- 
 formed by the board, in Ltubiin, is a fact which appears on our minute books, and in our 
 proceedings, which are all before tlie Commissioners, and I think they will see that the 
 duties of the Governors are attended with great trouble at times. 
 
 22996. I will now ask, at the request of Dr. Cullinan, who is present, why the Governors 
 do not endeavour to secure, in the grammar school at Ennis, the services of a person as 
 assistant master who has distinguished himself as a prizeman in Trinity College, or any 
 other college ? — I have already stated that we take the recommendation of our head master; 
 that we consider it most important that he should have the best instructor ; that we believe 
 Dr. King has done so in the case of his assistant, who was appointed at the instance of a 
 gentleman who was a sizar of college; and we always understood, not only that he was 
 approved of by the head master, but that he has been sought out by persons desiring to 
 receive instruction from him. as being a good master. Dr. Cullinan may have his own opinion 
 about tliis gentleman, but his opinion is not held by the Governors. Our head master in 
 Galway has received college honors over and over again. 
 
 22997. Dr. King himself' complained that the funds at his disposal, for the payment of 
 assistant masters, was not adequate ? — Yes, but we never intended tliat the assistance we 
 gave sliould be all that tlie head master should have ; we never intended to make the master 
 independent of his situation, or that he should not be obliged to work himself, and pay his 
 proportion of the expenses of his school. It has never been the practice of the Governors 
 to do otherwise. 
 
 22998. I will road Dr. King's evidence, in answer to a question put by one of the Com- 
 missioners. — *" Yon stated that the Governors are not liberal ? — I think not." Being asked 
 to give his reasons for that statement, he says, " I cannot procure competent assistants, in 
 this remote district, for the salary they allow ; and I conceive £lOU a-year, to a man 
 of my position in college, and my exertions here, is not sufhcient remuneration, parti- 
 cularly when I have to keep the building in repair, and to pay the I'ates and taxes." — 
 Tliat is all he receives, but 1 conceive that the money given to his assistants is to be taken 
 into consideration. He has a house, and other advantages ; and I can only repeat, that even 
 if we had the full means of doing it, it would be injudicious to make the master altogether 
 independent of his pupils, which if he had a large endowment, I tliink he would be. 
 However, the present arrangement may not altogether be as satisfactory as would be desirable. 
 
 22999. The salaiies paid to the head masters, in the lloyal schools, which are also gram- 
 mar schools, in Dungannon and Enniskillen, are £400 a-year and £500, and the second 
 masters are ])aid very lilierally, £100 a-year? — 1 think these endowments are entirely the 
 property of these schools ; tliat tlie board have no power of taking it Ironi tliem. 
 
 2.>')00. But the question is, whether if you paid your masters more liberally, both head 
 masters and assistant masters, and also exercised a more energetic superintendence and 
 supervision, you could not guard against the evils which certainly do arise sometimes 
 where masters of schools are rendered independent of their profession by the amount 
 of tlieir saliiries? — 1 think, to some extent, it might be done. 
 
 2;-500 1 . Competition, too, amongst the schoolmasters is maintained in consequence of their 
 making eflbrts to procure exhihititius for tlieir scliolars, in college ; and your exiiibitions, it 
 a])pears, arc; not at present on such a footing as to give tliat impulse to the school educa- 
 tion, cither as regards the diligence of the scholars, or the masters, which would be desir- 
 able ? — I tliink they arc not; but the Governors would be glad to make reforms in the 
 matters you liavc just mentioned, and I consider that in any event tliey should do more 
 for these schools, and in the manner wliicli you liave been suggesting. 
 
 2.'J002. I will repeat tlie (|uestion, whether you wisli to offer any supplemental observa- 
 tion or explanation witli reference to the matters brouglit before the Commissioners at 
 Ennis? — I do not recollect any matter whicli remains to be commented on. 
 
 2.''.00.'J. Before j)assing from tliis part of the subject, I may mention, in connexion with 
 the first of Dr. Culiinan's observations, tliat the Commissioners have before them a 
 
 • JividLiici;, 3:). 2.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 2>)7 
 
 complete return of the attendance of the Governors of the Board of Erasmus Smith's Schools, Dublin. 
 
 from the 20th April, 185.'5, down to the present time; and it apt)ears from this document -,,, ,. . ,, 
 
 that there are eight or ten Governors who liavc attended very assHUiously / — As to cx-officio Srhouls founded bij 
 Governors, since I have joined the board, whenever there was any thing of importance ^-rnsmus Smiili, Esq. 
 to be considered they generally attended ; when such questions were to he considered as J"''" Barlow, Esq. 
 the appointment of master, or head master, or land agent; but I think, generally, the 
 ordinary business of the board is left altogether to monil)ers of the committee, who 
 have more time on their hands, and who, in fact, are more conversant with the business ; 
 for an ex-officio member, coming one day and ))crh.ips not until tliat day month again, 
 would only feel his attendance inconvenient; if matters were brought forward to which 
 he was a perfect stranger, and we had to go over all the business with him again, which 
 has sometimes given us a great deal of trouble; but I never, perhaps, more than two 
 or tliree times, knew of our being obliged to go away without holding a lioard, for the 
 want of suflicient numbers to form a committee or board. I may say that during his 
 lifetime there was no more regular attendant than the late Provost. There was scarcely 
 a meeting of a board or committee tliat he was not at. I may mention that Blr. Hamilton 
 has reminded me that a letter was written to the present Provost, and Dr. Todd, when a 
 member of our board, when the subject of our grammar schools came under our considera- 
 tion, and that they attended specially at our board more than once. We were considering 
 matters touching these schools, and we wished to have their assistance. No doubt tliese 
 gentlemen are anxious to attend, but having so many more duties pressing, they cannot 
 do so regularly. 
 
 23004. The Commissioners will now proceed to review some matters brought before 
 them in evidence at a public court held in Galway. The assistant master being asked to 
 assign his reasons for the dechne of the school, said — *" In general 1 think the terms are 
 rather high. The shopkeepers of this town — the principal supporters of schools in 
 general, the middle classes — feel it very high to pay six guineas a-ycar for each of their 
 sons at present : though, perhaps, our terms are lower than at some of the endowed 
 schools; but still six guineas is con.sidered rather high." That matter has been already 
 touched upon, and the Governors said that they did not consider they had power to 
 regulate the charges, or to impose limits on the master as regards the charges. — I have no 
 doubt the masters would reduce tlieir cliarges if the Governors recommended it. I may 
 state that no statement was made to us, on the jjart of the inhabitants of Galway, until 
 very lately, as to the state of our schools at all. 
 
 23005. Mr. Killeen being asked whether these were the only reasons he could assign 
 for the decline of the school, answered, " Roman Catholics, generally, when I solicited 
 them to send their sons there, asked me what religion was taught, who taught them 
 catechism ; it being a Protestant establishment. I said we could not teach them their 
 catechism. They said, why should we not give a preference to the Roman Catliolic schools, 
 where they would be tauglit their own religion That was the reason I got — not that they 
 seemed to liave any prejudice against the school." — Well, that is the fact — the object of 
 our founder, of course, was to establish Protestant schools, and the Governors are bound 
 to carry out that object as far as they can. 
 
 2300(5. Mr. Killeen being pressed to assign further reasons for the decline of the school, 
 mentioned the establislnuent of the Queen's College, at Galway; and tliat the principal 
 reason for the falling off of the school, was, that students were admitted there before they 
 knew their grammar at school. •' I can say tlie professors themselves gave it as their 
 opinion — and some of them are listening to me at present — that they had to teach the pupils 
 grammar after being admitted as scholars of the Queen's College; instead of being profes- 
 sors, they had to teach them just as we do at school." They got scholarships when they 
 ought to have remained two or three years longer at school. With reference, however, to 
 that statement, we must observe that Mr. Hallowell, who appeared subsequently before 
 the Commissioners, for the purpose of giving evidence with regard to the state and condition 
 of his school, explained that it was to be taken with some abatement, that it was, 
 as he said, rather exaggerated ; and that Mr. Killeen desired to offer an explanation of 
 it — that he intended it only to refer to the period from October, 1849, to the close of 
 1 850, within which time a very large number of his pupils did enter the Queen's College ; 
 and, I believe, all of them obtained scholarships. Has this matter been brouglit before the 
 Governors ? — Not at all. 
 
 23007. No complaint was made at that time, by the head master or assistant master, 
 that the school suffered in consequence of pupils being prematurely withdrawn from the 
 school to the college ? — I have no recollection of any having been made to the Governors. 
 
 23008. As that matter has not come before the Governors, it is unnecessary, for the 
 purpose of our examination, to dwell further on it. Mr. Killeen was asked whether there 
 was any interference with the religious opinions of the children, and he answered "Never; 
 the only thing they objected to, was, that they (the Catholic parents) could not get them 
 taught their own catechism? — Yes. There was no interference with their religious 
 opinions, nor any objection on that account ? — Never ; before my time, from hearsay, I 
 heard there was." — I am sorry to hear that statement ; it was quite contrary to the will 
 of our founder that that should be so, and of course the Governors have not carried out 
 his intention so far. 
 
 23009. Mr. KiUeen also stated that they have not sufficient assistance granted in the 
 way of ushers. " There is no person at present to teach writing or arithmetic in our 
 school. It has been thrown upon my hands, although it is not my department." Was 
 
 * Evidence, 6494.
 
 208 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, CO^LMLSSION. 
 
 DuuLiN. any application made to the Governors to supply a writln;^ and arithinctie master? — None 
 
 , whatever. We luid no cuinnumication iVoni 5lr. Hamilton on tlie subject whatever; and 
 
 Sclt'>uls7"u'n<lad b'l I think it' that had been tlirown out to liim, ne ouglit to have brou<r]u it Ijefore us. I do 
 
 El litmus' Siiiiik. Esq. not say we should have given the assistance, as I do not know whether we would be 
 
 .l.jlm tiirlow, ]^i|. -justified or not, but the want should have been represented to us. We endeavoured to 
 
 take advantage of the Queen's College being established, to get some of our pupils 
 
 tauglit some branches there: and the system was going on with groat benefit to the 
 
 cliildrcn of our school. 
 
 23010. ilr. Killeen was asked was the school supplied with ma])s, he said:* "with 
 nothing at all ; the Governors supjdy nothing." The Commissioner inquired, '' Are they 
 asked lo supply any thing'?. — I do not know tliat Mr. Hallowell applied to tlieni. J believe 
 he considered it quite useless, when they were always so very hard, and had so little to 
 afford." He is then asked, " But you are not aware whether any application, written or 
 verbal, was ever made to the Governors for school requisites ? — I am not aware." — I am 
 quite .sure no application was ever made; and I think if it had boon made, it is very 
 probable it would have been acceded to. I think the school should be supplied with 
 maps and otlier school requisites which are peculiarly valuable, and which, perhaps, the 
 master would not find it always convenient to furnish. 
 
 23011. Do you know whether any such school requisites were supplied to any of the 
 grammar schools? — I do not think they have been supplied, or ever apjjlied for. 
 
 23012. I inquired, at Ennis, whether maps had been supplied, and i)r. King stated that 
 he did not consider it necessary tliat large maps to hang on the walls should be furnished; 
 on the other hand, I think tlie Governors ought to consider whether maps and appli- 
 ances of this kind would not be very desirable in a school into which pupils were to be 
 admitted who might not be able to afford to purchase maps, atlases, and other books 
 of an expensive kind? — I quite agree with you; and I have no doubt, if an applica- 
 tion had been m.ide, that it would liave been acceded to ; and, again, I may give as my 
 reason for S(j saying, that by some of our English schools, and particularly liy the school 
 in Sligo, we were applied to, and we have given eight or ten jiounds' worth of maps within 
 the last year ; and when we did that for the P^nglish school at Sligo I think there is no 
 doubt that the Governors would be equally liberal, at least, to the grammar schools. 
 
 23013. The Governors are, no doubt, far from thinking that the schoolroom of a grammar 
 school ought to be worse appointed than the schoolroom of a primary National School ? 
 — I think it should be hotter appointed. 
 
 23014. I must say I wish the Governors had themselves inspected the schoolrooms at 
 Ennis, G*iivay, and Tipperary, and seen whether tliey are not much worse provided than 
 the schoolroom of almost any National School in Ireland ? — I happened to be in the school 
 at Gal way last October by accident. 
 
 23015. Mr. Killeen justified this charge against the Governors — the charge of unwil- 
 lingness to provide school requisites, or of inability, in conse()uence of their not having 
 means — by saying that an application had been made to the Governors for school-books for 
 the supply of the English school at Galway, and that tlie requisition made on that 
 occasion to their registrar was not attended to ; and that as they had not supplied the 
 English schools with the books that were deemed necessary, Mr. Hallowell thought it 
 hopeless to apply for assistance to the grammar school ? — I am sure if an a])plication 
 were made for sciiool requisites for tlie Galway English school it was not refused. I have 
 no recollection of tlic circumstance, but I will answer, it is not likely it was refused ; if it was. 
 it was a singular case. I might also mention to you, that 1 remember an application was 
 lately made on the part of the grammar school of Drogheda to su])ply the free jnipils witii 
 school requisites; our reply was, we would give half. We did not think we should give 
 the entire, lest they might be careless about them unless they cost something. We should 
 be willing, out of our funds, to give a moiety of the expenses of tiiese school requisites ; but 
 our universal practice is, to give one half school requisites to all our English schools; and 
 in many instances we give the entire wiien we think they are not well able to provide 
 tliom. 
 
 2301(5. Mr. Killeen was asked,t " You arc not aware whether any application v.-as made to 
 the Governors for school requisites?" — "I am not, but Mr. Hallowell did. I spoke to 
 Mr. Hamilton, and lie said he tliought it useless to make the application. I recommended 
 them to send down an English iiistoiy and Thomson's geograpliy ; for tlu^ little things they 
 su])i)lied were (luite useless." " ^Vlieii was that ?" Mr. Hughes asked, " About a year and 
 a-lialf ago." He is then asked, "What was his answer?" — "He would speak to the 
 board ; and tlie board sent down some of thoso small little things — a litth- school history 
 of England that cost about Cr/., and a geography the same. Tlic others would cost about 
 3*. eacli." I asked. " You are speaking of books supjdied to another school ?" — " To the 
 English school?' — 1 am utterly ignorant of all this matter; I li()]je Mr. Hamilton never 
 gave the answer which is imputed to him — tliat it was useless to ask the (Jovernors for 
 these things. I must say if he did \h' had no reason to give it. I do not think it is likely 
 he ever gave it. 
 
 23017. One of the matters brought under the notice (jf the Commissioners at (ialvvay 
 was an (Midoavour made by the masters of the grammar school to obtain instruction for 
 the pujiils in the modern languages and chemistry. The I'oard of Governors, I believe, 
 allowed 1'2;'5, and a jiortion of the (!.\pcnH(; was to be born(! by the master himself? — I 
 know wo did make an arrangement Utv a short time; and we can show you e.\;ictly what 
 the ai-rangeinent was. Jt was for a time carried out, but then it was given up. 
 
 * Evidence, 5C48. t Evidence, 5654.
 
 EVIDENCE. 209 
 
 23018. It was given up, I believe, because it appeared that tlio time of tin' pupils was Oudlin-. 
 
 The (ttircniurs o/ lite 
 
 ■wasted in troiuLT from the scliool to tlio college, wliicli is at some distance : and also 
 because it was iound that the ](i-ofessor ot I' rencli could not make his lectures prolitahleto sdimila fimiule'il Im 
 the junior pupils at the same time that he was instructing others who were more advanced? f-yunmus SmUh, Es,/. 
 ~I believe that that was the cause of it. -T"''" liiirUw, Ksq. 
 
 23019. The Governors are not indisposed to give assistance for the purpose of enabling 
 the masters of the grammar scliools to fiirnisii instruction in modern languages to the 
 pupils ? — Certainly nut. 
 
 23020. Do they contemplate instruction in the modern languages as an indisjjcnsable 
 part of their school course ? — We gave aid to the Dri/gheda school to provide instruction 
 in this branch. Wo asked the master to come and attend our board, which he did ; and 
 from his statement we gave him £40 a-year towards an J'higlish master. 
 
 23021. Is there any other matter the Governors wish to Ijring before us in reference to 
 the grammar scliool at (ialway? — I think I recollect some conij)laint being brought 
 forward that Mr. llallowell was not at his school. His absence was not rejjortod to us vvlieii 
 he left, as it ought to have been, lie left the school in very bad health, and was unable to 
 return when the period of the vacation expired, lie was written to then to return, as it 
 was e.xpected the Commissioners would visit Galvvay, and, probably, would require his 
 attendance either there or here; but Mr. llallowell was not able to come back for some 
 time. I rather think he has given an explanation himself. I have not seen his evidence ; 
 but I suppose he exphnned these matters. 
 
 23022. llefore closing the matters relating to the school at Galway, it is right to men- 
 tion, that Mr. llallowell offered some suggestions with respect to the improvement of the 
 school, and the Commissioners would like to hear whether these suggestions arc likely to 
 meet the approval of the Governors. He says,* " I think, as tlie education of all classes is 
 improved so much in the shape of model schools, that a classical and grammar school should , 
 not be beliind the times. 1 have not the means to accomplish the desired object at jjresent. 
 
 T should have a staff of masters of suHicient acquirements for the purpose. I .should have 
 one for science, who should include in his department a knowledge of chemistry and 
 natural science, and also of mineralogy and geology. I should have one to teach the 
 modern languages. I should have an English master, and I should have a drawing master. 
 I have a science master myself, but I would like to have one of a higher order. I would 
 make the exhibitions that are now in Trinity College of real value, instead of being worth 
 almost nothing to the students. 1 think it would be better to establish a few of real value 
 than to have a large number of very small value." — I think if the Governors were encou- 
 raged, by seeing that the pupils there would benefit by it, they would give Mr. llallowell 
 more assistance than he has. How much they would give I am not prepared to say, but I 
 ara sure they would give to Galway what they give elsewhere. The Governors approve of 
 Mr. llallowell. but for some cause or other (he is a very good scholar) he has not a good 
 school — indeed it may be looked u]ion as an utter failure ; and under these circumstances 
 I do not think there is a feeling at our board that the Governors ought to do more for it 
 than we have been doing. In fact, a change must take place, because there is no doubt 
 whatever, that the school will not be allowed to continue as it is by the Goveriiors. I do 
 not mean to say what the change may be, but great disappointment was felt by the 
 Governors after mv vi.sit to Galway. 
 
 23023. Mr. llallowell also suggested the increase of the value of the exhibitions, but 
 that matter has lieen already noticed. He also suggested what was observed upon by the 
 Marquess of Kiidare, that the exhibitions might be api)lied to supporting boys at tiie school, 
 in order to give them the means of getting a good education. — 1 would not interfere with 
 the e.xhibitions, but would give some assistance otherwise. 
 
 23024. Has not the charter contemplated, at all events, the clothing of tlie free 
 scholars ? — Certainly. 
 
 23025. He says, '• Another thing I would recommend, though it may ap])cnr I am making 
 an admission against myself, for the improvement of the school, is an etlicient system of 
 inspection. If the master be competent, his labours will be appreciated if he docs his 
 duty; and if he is not competent, there will be an opportunity afforded of discovering 
 where the deficiency lies, and of remedying it." — I cannot object to that statement. 
 
 2302G. Lastly, he proposes the establishment of a laboratory, with chemical apparatus. — 
 They are less required in Galway than anywhere else. Certainly, it would be a great 
 waste of money to undertake any tiling of the kind. 
 
 23027. These are the suggestions made by Mr. llallowell for the improvement of Galway 
 school. With regard to the Engli.sh school at Galway, the master, Mr. Andrew Iteid, 
 being examined, was asked, whether there was any interference with the religious scruples 
 of the Roman Catholic children attending the school ? He said there was not. Being 
 asked, " What catechism is taught in the school?" he replied, "The Protestant catechism." 
 His examination proceeded as follows :' " Are all taught the Protestant catechism ? — Yes. 
 If Roman Catholic children are there, are they taught the Protestant catechism? — The two 
 that were there were too small, they were only learning their letters at the time." — The 
 rule with regard to the management of English schools, and the religious instruction to be 
 given in them, requires that religious instruction shall be given every day to all the jiupils 
 out of the Holy Scriptures. 
 
 2302S. The same master was further examined,! " Do you get as many books as you 
 require? — No. Have you made an application for books to the Governors? — I have. Has 
 
 * EvMonce, 20202. f Evidence, 5752. ± Evidence, 5819. 
 
 Vol. II. ■ 2 E
 
 210 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBLiN. it been successful or unsuccessful ? — Tliev sent jiart of the application, part of the requisites, 
 
 but they did not send the entii-e. Did tliey assign anj' cause ? — No. Then you have not 
 
 The Governors of tie ^ present moment a sufficient supislv of books to answer the requirements of your 
 Erasmus Smiih, £.<q. school .' — No. When did vou apply to the bovernors tor books .'-^l cannot tell you; 
 Jolm Barlow. Esii. twice, I think, since my appointment. Twice ? — On both occasions I did get books, but I 
 did not get a sufficient quantity. Did you acquaint tlie board that you had not received 
 a sufficient quantity? — I sent up for the necessary requisites, and whatever they sent 
 me down I took : I did not go farther." — That is one of the schools we give the entire to. 
 Our inspector reports regularly to the Governors whether the requisites are wanted or 
 not ; if they are, we send in proportion to the number of children attending the school. 
 We have always given Galway school the full number of books and requisites of all kinds, 
 as reported to us to be required by our inspector. 
 
 23029. This is a matter of consequence, as it boars upon a subject which we examined 
 into at length yesterdaj- — the general efficiency of the English schools. — Certainly ; I can 
 only say, if there be any want it is unknown to the Governors; and if there be any, it is 
 the fault of our inspector — but he is here to answer for himself. 
 
 23030. I visited the school myself; I found a very fine schoolliouse, apparently well 
 furnished with appliances of every kind, but a very small number of pupils, although it is 
 in a very populous town. To what do you ascribe the inefficiency of the school, both the 
 male and female part of it? — There arc other schools in the town, and these schools are 
 bettor liked. There are some reasons, which I will not mention, why our schools are not 
 so well attended. I believe there is the same efficiency in the other schools, and that the 
 parents of the children wish them to learn there. 
 
 23031. In point of fact, .the inefficiency of the schools must, to a groat extent, be attri- 
 buted to the operation of the rule with regard to religioiis instruction ? — I believe there is 
 no doubt of the fact. I think, for your own satisfaction, you ought to question the inspector 
 as to the sup])ly of books. 
 
 23032. The Commissioners feci that they have inquired sufficiently. Matters of detail 
 of this kind fall within the province of the Governors of the schools, in the performance 
 of their ordinary duty. It appears that this master, Andrew Reid, was not furnished with 
 a copy of the rules relative to the duties of the masters in the English schools, at the time 
 of his appointment. He was asked," "Then you were appointed in December, 1853, and 
 you received no rules for the regulation of your school until you aj)plied for them ? — 
 Until 1 sent up for them. When? — I think that is about a month ago." His evidence 
 was before me and Mr. Hamilton, our inspector, and he has appended this note to it, 
 "The practice is. that rules No. 1 are posted in every school; if they are lost or worn out 
 I leave a copy ; if this is not done it is my fault. One of the questions which I am bound 
 to ask is, is there a copy of the rules posted." The Governors do not know whether 
 these rules are not posted in the school, but as the inspector tells them. If there is any 
 mistake as to this point it is his fault. It is bis bounden duty to see that these rules 
 are in every school. 
 
 23033. It is quite clear that this schoolmaster did not refer to this collection of rules 
 No. 1, but to the other collection of rules No. 2, relative to masters and mistresses. — The 
 rules are given to the masters, and are sent to the superintendent ; and they arc, or ought 
 to be, in the teachers' hands. The letters show they are regularly sent, and I believe if 
 it is not done, it is only an omission. Mr. Hamilton has handed me a letter addressed to 
 Mr. Andrew Reid, dated 23rd of June, 1854 :— 
 
 ■• Sir. — Mr. Hamilton has handed me the letter which you addressed to him, and which 
 is dated the 3()th ultimo. In reply, I beg to say, that your salary from the Governors is 
 £25 per annum, with a gratuity not to exceed £5 per annum ; the latter being contingent 
 upon the inspector's report, as explained by rule No. 7 of the enclosed. The usual allow- 
 ance for fuel has been £3 per annum, but this year the Governors were pleased to increase 
 it to £4, half notes for which I now enclose. I'loasc acknowledge the receipt, and the 
 remaining halves shall bo forwarded. 
 
 " I remain your faithful servant, 
 
 "Mr. Andrew Reid." " Eustack Thorp, Assistant Register. 
 
 23034. With regard to the matter of gratuities being contingent upon the inspector's 
 report, it aj)pears that this master received gratuity before he had been fully a year 
 appointed ; although that was contrary to one of the rules. — There was a breach of the 
 rule to the extent of nine days. The master would have completed his year in nine days, 
 when the inspector was there, and the Governors, when the reports of tlie inspector were 
 ])laced before them, did not stop bis gratuity, thougli ho wanted nine days of the full year. 
 
 23035. In point of fact, are these gratuities made to (lo])end ujion tlie insjiector's reports 
 as to the efficiency of the masters? — It is the full intention ol'tiie (jovernors that they sliould. 
 
 2303(i. The original intention, before the change in tiic system took place, was to dimin- 
 ish, withhold, grant, or increase the gratuity according to the inspector's reports. Here it 
 ajjpears that this Mr. Reid, the master of this school, which is not in a very flourishing 
 state, got this gratuity 
 
 23037. [Kov. //. Hamilton. — Not a full gratuity, he only got £4.] 
 
 23038. Even so, he got a gratuity in violation of the letter of the rule, re.s])ecting the 
 
 award of gratuities I can state, generally, to the Connnissioners, tiiat the Governors 
 
 are most particular that the gratuity, or any ])art of it, should not be considered as a salary to 
 
 * Evidence, 5843.
 
 o 
 
 EVIDENCE. 211 
 
 wliicli tlicsG niastcrs are entitled. Tlie inspector is obliged to report to tlic committee on Uuhmn. 
 
 every school he visits, in wliicli ho states the progress made by the children, and other -^ — 
 
 details, which I need not mention, but they arc all in the extracts before mo. Before the SchwiL^'mndcd hy'' 
 gratuity is granted, it must not only bo brouglst Ijoforc three Governors, who form tlie sub- Erasmus' HvM, i'w/. 
 committee, but tlioy must each initial tliat report before the gratuity is passed by the board .Uihn liarlois Esq. 
 to the schoolina.stcr. I can .speak for myself and my friend beside mc, that every half-year 
 those reports are brought i)ofore us, anrl initialed. Very often we do not inquire of our 
 inspector as to the propriety of granting a gratuity, but very often wc do not agree with 
 him, in case we think he leans to the master more than we think he should ; and over and 
 over again we have cut down the gratuity recommended by the inspector ; because wo wish 
 that it sliould depend upon the attention of the master, and the progress made by the 
 children in their education, whether that gratuity should 1)0 awarded to him or not. 
 
 2.'50.'5!). [llev. H. JJamilton. — Here is my report upon this school in 1854 — " The train- 
 ing .school of the National Hoard has taken away the pupils. Keid iieing under eighteen 
 years of ago cannot be expected to cope with three or four first rate teachers. He is con- 
 fused, and was evidently frigiitened at the inspection ; and the same remark applies to his 
 pupils. I found great difficulty in taking the statistics, which always argues confusion in 
 the teacher. However, I do not despair of m.aking Galway a good school. It has never 
 been so in my time." 'i'hen, in reply to the question, " Is the teacher deserving of any 
 gratuity, and how much?'' 1 stated — " I wish to give the master encouragement ; I there- 
 fore recommend hiai for the full gratuity." The Governors granted £4 upon that report.] 
 
 23040. That report does not contain any positive recommendation of the master what- 
 ever? — No. An abstr.ict of this report was brought befoi'e the sub-committee, and I find 
 it is initialed by j).Ir. Jones and myself, and that the following order was made on it : — ■ 
 "Mr. llallowcU to be invited to superintend the English school, but caution to l)e exer- 
 cised not to offend any of tlie clergy in cfl'ecting this. Write and have the assent of the 
 warden to this arrangement, ilequisites and a gratuity of £4 to lioth schools." A very 
 small average attendance. 
 
 2304 I . Have you any further recommendation of the master in addition to the report 
 which has been read just now ? — No. 
 
 23042. What was the date of that inspection? 
 
 23043. [Rev. Htif/h llamilton.—'Ilat October, 1854. 
 
 23044. Do you happen to know the date and result of the last inspection? — I have it 
 before me. It is dated 15th December, 1855; and it states, in reply to the c|uestion, 
 what the progress and answering of the boys was in the following subjects : — " Scripture, 
 very good ; arithmetic, very good ; handwriting, very good ; English grammar, very good 
 by one boy ; geography, very good ; composition, very good." 1 never before gave a good 
 report of Galway, but this time the master has done very well ; it is my second time to 
 see him. Islr. Ilallowell was with me, and agreed in remarking the great improvement, 
 both in the boys' school and girls'. The great thing to be wished is, that the master had 
 more pupils. The National training school, close by, takes away most of the pupils." The 
 committee ripon this report recommended the full gratuity of £5.] 
 
 23045. You stated that the Governors were in the habit of granting all the requisites 
 necessary for the Gahvay school ; on what ground do they treat differently the other schools 
 under their management ? — We have a great deal of property about Galway, and the school, 
 1 think, is taken advantage of by the children of our own tenantry. In general, we e.xpect 
 from local sources a good deal of assist.ance, but we cannot expect it there, and we supply 
 the requisites ourselves. 
 
 2.S046. Before I pass on to the consideration of matters relating to other scliools, I should 
 draw attention to an observation made by Mr. Blake, when examined by the Commis- 
 sioners* — "I was educated there (in the granmiar school at Galway) many years ago. Under 
 what master? — Dr. Whitley. Wliat year? — Nearly thirty years ago. There were in it, 
 at that time, about forty boarders, and, I think, forty or fifty day-boys. There were six 
 or seven tutors, aud the Roman Catholic religion was taught every Saturday. There was 
 a Roman Catholic teacher there ; and he, on Saturday, instructed the Catholic boys in 
 the Cliristian doctrine. What proportion of the boys, day or boarders, were Roman 
 Catholics? — The great majority were Roman Catholics; some of the first families in the 
 county had their sons there at the time." Could these facts have been possibly brought 
 under the notice of the Governors at that time? — I should say, decidedly not, though I 
 was not a Governor then. There has been a complete neglect of all our rules in this 
 respect. I do not think it is possible that these facts could have been known to the 
 Governors. 
 
 23047. Are Roman Catholic assistant masters allowed to the English schools? — No ; we 
 do not appoint the assistant masters. 
 
 23048. I find in your minute book, a reference made to the appointment of assistant 
 masters in the English schools in former times? — ^ Perhaps so; within my knowledge there 
 has been nothing of the kind. The bishop of the diocese always signs the appointment of 
 our English masters, whoever he is. 
 
 23049. The Commissioners have now reviewed the matters brought before their attention 
 at Galway, and if you have further observations to make -with respect to the schools there, 
 the present is the time to offer them ? — I have nothing on my notes respecting them. I 
 do not recollect any thing, except the general observation as to the small number of pupils 
 attending the English s.:hool ; but I believe, I understood from the Commissioners, that 
 
 * Evidence, (j015. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 E 2
 
 212 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DuuLis. we are to attribute it very much to causes over which we have no control. Something must 
 
 „., ,. ,,,, be done for the grammar school, for the purpose of makincf it more efficient; but tlie course of 
 
 SchimU foiiiii/ed bif education in balway, and otlier parts ot Irchnd, is so diilorcnt now from ivhatit was some 
 
 Erasni'is'Siiiitli, Esq. years ago, when our schools did flourisli, 1 do not tliink we liave the means of grajipling 
 
 John liarlow, Y.fq. with the difficulties. There are very good schools in the West of Ireland, in wiiich the 
 
 inhabitants think their children are well educated. They arc not open to the objection 
 
 that the scliool in Galway is liable to. 
 
 23050. In Sligo, as I have already noticed, there is a matter wliich deserves the attention 
 of the Governors — namely, that in tiiat very large scliool, luinibcring from 90 to 100 
 scholars, there is a single master without an assistant ? — Tliat is a fact. He told me he had 
 monitors, and was assisted by the senior boys; but he has no assistant paid by us. He 
 has a most excellent school — the best I ever was in. 
 
 230.51. Do you encourage the employment of monitors in your schools? — We are always 
 glad to know that they have them. 
 
 23052. But whenever monitors are appointed in your schools, does the inspector 
 take particular pains to satisfy Jiimself tliat their progress in their own studies is not 
 interfered with ? — I am sure he does. They are examined, and questioned, perhaps more 
 closely than the others in the school. 
 
 23053. A ])ortion of the monitor's time spent by him in the school, must be devoted to 
 the instruction of the other pupils, rather than to progress in his own learning ? — Certainly, 
 a portion of it must be so devoted. 
 
 23054. That shows that the employment of monitors must be resorted to with very great 
 discretion ? — Of course. 
 
 230i5. There are one or two matters in the evidence relating to the Longford school, 
 which I ought to bring under the notice of the Governors. It appears that this school had 
 been purchased by the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools, at a cost of £400, and the 
 schoohnaster being a.sked* who repaired the schoolhouse, answered, it was repaired by the 
 Earl of Longford. The sclioolmaster is asked — " 'i'licn you distinctly state, that you 
 received no money from Erasmus Smith's Board for making repairs in your school ? — No. 
 Did tliey supjily you with tlie means of procuring books? — No; we got books from 
 the Churcii Education Society. You receive as many books as you want ? — No. Have 
 you made any application to the Church Education Society for books, and been refused ? — 
 I never made any application, but Mr. Card did." — This school is bona fide a school 
 under the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools ; and as to the repairs you mention, 
 finding a. great pressure upon our funds at one time, and feeling that Lord Longford 
 could very well repair tlio schoolhouse at liis own expense, we did apply to Lord Longford, 
 and he very kindly repaired the school. As to the school requisites, I can only give the 
 same answer 1 gave in the other cases — that our invariable rule is, to supply school requi- 
 sites; and if we had known that the school had received school requisites from the Churcli 
 Education Society, we should object to it, and not have allowed it. We would not allow 
 the schools under our care to be under the Church lulucation Society. We have for a long 
 time been dissatisfied with the state of tlie Longford school. 
 
 230")6. The return of the attendance at the school, as given by tlie master, was not very 
 intelligible. It appeared to disagree with the return furnished by liim to the Board of 
 Governors. However, it is plain, this confu.sion arises in consequence of the numbers 
 having been estimated in different ways : in one case, the total number on the roll 
 being given, and in the other case, the average attendance being returned. The Com- 
 missioners received the following letter from the Rev. jMr. Chainney, officiating curate 
 of ( 'amlough : — " The enclosed returns arc those of the attendance at Sturgan school, 
 in the district of Camlough, parisli of Killeavy, formerly under the Board of Erasmus 
 Smith. The aid was withdrawn from the 1st May, 1850; notice to that cftect was given 
 1st November, 1849. It is a locality in which a good school is needed, and 1 conceive, 
 that, with the attendance these returns exhibit, it sh(ju]d not have been dosed."— That 
 school was closed In' the Governors, because we found it most inellicicnt. We found 
 that tlie numbers continued to bo very small; and after repeated warnings, unless it 
 became a scliool that we could fairly and properly expend any ])ortion of our funds on, we 
 said it would be closed ; and it came to that in the end. We can show the correspon- 
 dence as to that school, and you will find it was more an infant school than any thing else. 
 
 23057. What amount of attendance do you regard as being so small as to warrant the 
 Governors in discontinuing the school ? — We have no fixed rule as to that. If the school goes 
 on from year to year, dwindling away, then it would be wrong to continue it. The number 
 here was not so much a matter of consideration as the age of the ciiildren. It was, in fact, 
 an infant school. 
 
 23058. The numbers returned do not apjjcar to be very small. The average attendance 
 for several months ])revious to closing, from the month of November, 1849, to A])ril, 1850, 
 was about forty ?^ If the children were of a proper age, and the school otherwise well 
 managed, we should not have closed it. 
 
 23059. There is another niatter about which the Governors ought to afl'nrd us some infor- 
 mation. We were informed that the scbonlliouse has remained since 1849 in the jxis.sessioii 
 of ]\Ir. Lcwers. the late Hchoolmastcr ? — I find there was a special meeting of the Committee 
 of the Board held the 30th November, 1849 — the late Dr. IClrington, chairman— and the 
 following resolution was passed : — " Sturgan School. — Tlu; board cannot continue the 
 school beyond the 1st of May next. It ia an infant school." That was the cau.se of our 
 
 * EvkltncL', 75(i8.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 213 
 
 closiiii? tlie scliool. It appears also, wo could not find tlio patron of tlic scliool to give it 
 U[) to Jiiin, and it remained in the possession of the schoolmaster ; but lately he has been 
 ajjplied to, and it is now under the consideration of the Governors, what course they will 
 take to recover possession of the school. 
 
 '2.'50liO. Have you re-convt^ycd the school site? — No. 
 
 2:5001. Supposini:; that tlic (picstion remained pending' in its present state, wliat sccui'ity 
 have yon tliat tlie master would not, by Ids occupation, obtain a riglit to the premises? — 
 \Vc cainiot tell that. 
 
 2;}1)()"2. Or at all events offer great liiiidr.incc to tiio resumption of them by tlie riglitful 
 owner ? — Certainly, if he is so inclined. 
 
 23()().'5. .\re your masters under luiud to surrender your school-liouscs? — Tliey are ; and 
 so is the master in question. 
 
 230G4. Under what circumstances are they obliged l)y their Ijond to surrender possession i 
 — Their own resignation, or Ixung dismissed by the Governors. 
 
 2.i0(i.'). The Commissioners had before them a case where the schoolmaster and school- 
 mistress wore dismissed, and successl'ully resisted the legal proceedings which were taken 
 to turn tiuMu out':' — This nuitter was under consideration. 
 
 2.'5()bG. The attention of the ConHuissiiiiMn's was directed to a dispute winch arose as to 
 tlu'. mode of inspecting f'.rasmus iSniith's I'higlisli school at Mu(f : the (piestion involved 
 was wh(!ther a Presbyterian clergyman could exercise the duties of superintendent of the 
 school ? — lie could not. 
 
 230G7. But unless the Governors desire now to make any statement with regard to the 
 matter, the Commissioners woulil desire to postpone the consideration of it, as the case 
 has been referred to an Assistant-Counnissioner to inquire into on tlie spot ? — I have 
 no wish. 
 
 230t)8. The Governors will receive notice with regard to the proceedings of the Assistant- 
 Commissioner, if they sliould be of such a nature as to call for any further intervention. 
 
 23069. The board had an English school at Glyde Famn, county Louth; the site of this 
 school has been alienated, and the Commissioners desire to ast, whctiier the Governors 
 contributed anything towards the erection of the school? — It was, in fiict, erected by 
 Colonel Fortescue, and we never did contribute towards it ; the school belongs to Mr. 
 Upton ; I am sorry he bnjko it up, but be was anxious to get back liis house. 
 
 23070. Did you, however, at some time make an annual grant? — AVe did. 
 
 2307 1. But was that without any condition as to the continued maintenance of the school? 
 — AVe made no condition; Lord Clermont used to subscribe, and the school was broken up 
 from the want of funds principally. ^Ir. Townsend, the rector, is most desirous to continue 
 the school, and communicated with us as to the possibility of its being done. 
 
 23072. A question was brought before the Commissioners Avith regard to the manage- 
 ment of Erasmus Smith's school at Ardee. The Corporation of Ardee granted £150 
 towards the building of tlie school-house, and a private individual contributed £50 ; and 
 the Town Commissioners, who are obliged to pay £20 a-year, Irish, towards the master's 
 salary, desire to have a share in the management of the school : have the}' at present any 
 control over it ? — None. 
 
 23073. There is a male school and a female school. This female school was established 
 in like manner, in 1847, the Corjjoration of Ardee granting £150 towards the erection of 
 it ; the mistress is paid a salary of £12 a-year by the Governoi"s of Erasmus Smith's 
 Schools ; and the Commissioners of Municipal Corporations, in their report in the year 
 1833, state that there were then in the male school ninety si.K pupils — twenty-five Protes- 
 tants, and scventvone Catholics ; sixty-nine in the female school, of which ten were Protes- 
 tants and fifcy-nino Koman t'atiiolics : do you know whether the proportion of children of 
 the dirterent religious denominations remains the same at present ? — I cannot say, but I 
 should say the report is likely to be jiretty much the same. 
 
 23074. [Rev. H. Hamilton. — I have on the books forty-nine girls— seventeen members 
 of tiic Church of England, thirty-two Roman Catholics; I have in the boys' school thirty- 
 one on the books — thirteen mem!;ers of the Church of England, eighteen Roman Catholics ; 
 this report is dated 27th of April. ]l~56.] 
 
 23075. The Corporation is obliged to pay that £20 a-year, but they have no control 
 whatever over the school? — \\'hen we established the school in that neighbourhood, the 
 Corporation did subscribe, and friends and relations of mine, who were influential members 
 of it, got a grant of £20 a-year ; under these circumstances the Governors contributed, 
 but tlu^ Corporation have nothing whatever to say to the control of the school. 
 
 23016. ^Ir. Peter llickey was asked — " Do the Town Commis.sioners want to have a 
 share in the management of tlie school? — Yes. AA'hat is the nature of the management 
 they require? — fhe appointment of the master, fot instance." In Vihom is the appointment 
 of the master legally vested — the patron or the contributors?— The patron recommends a 
 master for the appointment of the Governors, to which, if there be no objection, it is 
 confirmed by the Governors, on receiving a certificate from the bishop of the diocese that 
 he approves of the appointment also. 
 
 2307'. But the Town Commissioners, in such a case as that, would not possess any special 
 privilege as regarded tlie control and management of the school ? — Certainly not ; and I 
 think it would not be at all de-sirable that they should have any special control. 
 
 23078. Mr. Hickey was asked — " Do you find any fault with the system of education that 
 is at present practised?" He answered — " We never ^-isited ; but there have been com- 
 
 * Evidence, 12367. 
 
 JJutfLlN. 
 
 Tim (jovcriiorx of flif 
 
 Svhotila fouiiiUd hi/ 
 J-'rasmus Siintlt, Kf^ff, 
 
 .7c)lin Barlow, Kscj.
 
 Jolin rSarlow, Esq. 
 
 214 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Dublin. plaints made — whispered about — that persons of different religious persuasions are obliged 
 
 The Gntvrnors nfthe ^'^ ^'^^'^ books they do not approve of — books belonging to another religious persuasion ; 
 Schools foiimled by foi" instance, Catholics are obliged to read tha Testament of the Estal)lislied Churcli, such 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. as that; I often heard that whispered about; I never viJ^ited the school." Are the chihlron 
 of that school instructed in conformity with the rules laid down for the management of your 
 English schools ■? — They certainly are ; I think the superintendent who had the manage- 
 ment of that school would not allow any other system to be carried out. I have ap]>lied 
 myself to the Town Commissioners to pay the master's salary ; tliey have not paid it, but 
 they owe bun £77 on foot of his £20 a year. 
 
 23079. In conducting the examination of Mr. Lacy, master of the grammar school, the 
 Commissioncr.s found that ho was under the impression that the master of the free grammar 
 school had no option as regards the teaching of classics to pupils; he supposed it was a 
 violation of the principles laid down for the regulation of the master to give a pm-ely 
 Enghsh or commercial education to the pupils ? — I think he is correct in that. 
 
 23080. I brought before him the rules in the charter, for the purpose of conveying a 
 different notion to him; the rule is — "Also the master of such free school, respectively, 
 shall teacli all .such cliildren as shall be found capable thereof, to write and cast accounts, 
 and moreover shall instruct them in the Latin, Greek, and Hebrew tongues, and fit them 
 for the university, if the}-, or their parents or friends, shall so desire." Would not that 
 clause, with the condition in it before them, have been sufficient to satisfy the masters of 
 the grammar schools that they are at liberty to give an English or commercial education 
 in the grammar schools ? — I think they have a discretionary power, but I did suppose 
 that a commercial education was imparted. 
 
 2308 1. The legal definition of a grammar school is one in which the Creek and Latin 
 languages are taught? — Yes. 
 
 23052. But Mr. Lacy was under tlie persuasion that he had no right, in strictness, to 
 educate any pupils who were not learning Greek or Latin. — That was my own impression ; 
 but I now think both are wrens'. 
 
 23053. It a]ipearcd, however, on that occasion, that the master had not been furnished 
 by the Governors with a copy of the charter, or with rules for his guidance in the manage- 
 ment of the school. — I am not aware that lie was, but he should have been. 
 
 23084. He had no knowledge of tlie rule I have referred to, nor was he aware of the 
 rule laid down in the charter, that tlie master was bound to catechise the scholars on the 
 Lord's day out of Archbishop [Tssher's catechism. Has that rule become obsolete, although 
 it is laid down in the charter? — Though Mr. Lacy w-as not furnished with the written rules, 
 or the pi-inted rules, when he had an interview with the Governors, I do not think it likely 
 that he was not fully informed of what his duties were. 
 
 23085. I stated, generally, that you would find that the masters of the grammar 
 schools did not interfere with the religious instruction of the pupils received into these 
 schools. I asked Mr. Lacy- — '• Do you give religious instruction to the Koman Catholic 
 day scholars'? — They do not attend ; the few I have da not attend at that time. Is the 
 instruction given within the ordinary school-hours? — Yes. How do you deal with the 
 case of Roman Catholic day scholars ? — I allow them to absent themselves. I should 
 state that the whole of the scholars do not attend this Scripture reading, for many 
 of them live too far to come at that early hour. Then, in point of fact, the religious 
 instruction you give is at the commencement of the school-hours? — We go into the 
 school at half-past seven o'clock, and religious instruction is from eight to half-past eight 
 o'clock. Then many of the day-pupils do not come to the school till the religious 
 instruction has closed? — I should think one third do not attend the instruction. P'or 
 instance, si.x boys come from Balbriggan by train, who could not possibly attend at that 
 time. It is a point I am very anxious about, but 1 cannot insist upon their attendance." — 
 I think he could not arrange it unless he gave religious instruction after breakfast as 
 well as before it. 
 
 230Sf). I refer to the evidence for the purpose of showing yon tliat Roman Catholic 
 pupils have been admitted into the grammar schools. Mr. Uallowell stated that one of 
 the last free pupils admitted into the Galway grammar school, by the Governoi's, was a 
 Jioman Catholic. — Yes. 
 
 23087. The next case, on which tlie Commissioners wish to receive some explanation, is 
 tliat of the Donadca school, which was discontinued by the Governors. — There was some 
 interference with the schoolhouse in that case ; and also the master was a clerk of petty 
 sessions, but he gave up that situation. 
 
 23088. The master was asked | — " How long were you clerk of the petty sessions ? — 
 Twenty-five years. When did you discontinue being clerk of the petty sessions ? — In 
 the year 1849. The board objected to your keeping the two offices of sclioolmaster 
 and clerk of the petty sessions ? — They did. Mr. Stephens. — Are you aware whether 
 the inspector knew that you held the situation of petty sessions' clerk for the town 
 of Donadea? — They all did; and they approved of it, because the county granted i'lO 
 for the use of the l)oardroom, which went to provide fuel and school i-equisitcs I'oi' the 
 school. Then am f to understand, that during the twenty-five years that you held the 
 situation of clerk of Donadea petty sessions, the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's 
 Schools were aware that you were holding that situation"? — They were. One of their 
 queries was, if 1 jield any other situation ? I told thcra I did, and it was so reported. 
 Was the ClO, to which you have alluded, notified to the Governors? — It was. Was it 
 
 • Evidence, 12786. t Evidence, 13830.
 
 EVIDENCE. 215 
 
 expended on school requisites? — Yes, and fuel. Was that returned in writing? — Their Dublin. 
 
 insjjector's report so returned it. Will that fact appear in the liooks of the inspector? y/,^ q^^^^^^ „f,/,^ 
 — Yesi. Arc you sure of tint? — I am. The inspector always ]mt that in tlie i-cport, and SchLh founik'd hy 
 reported it to the Governors. And during tlio twenty-five years tliere was no olyection Emsuius Smith, Esq. 
 made? — No ohjection made, or no fault could ever bo found. Down to 1849? — Down to John TJnrlow, Ki-q. 
 1849 they could never find any fault with tlio schools at all, but were always well satisfied 
 with the improvement of the scholars and the state of the school, and we always 
 received the full gratuities." — As to one matter, I can, for myself, say, that that was 
 the first time 1 hoard that the master of tlio Donadoa scliool held the situation of potty 
 sessions' clerk. 1 strongly urged on tlio board tliat liis services should be discontinued, 
 or that he should give up that oflice. When 1 knew it, I at once objected to it, and on 
 my objection being made he gave np the situation. 
 
 2:5089. He did resign the oihce in 1849 ? — I suppose he did. 
 
 23090. But it ap])ears he was not dismissed until 1854. — lie may have resumed his 
 duties after his first dismissal. 
 
 'J.'.W}\. But the school was discontinued. — Yes; there was interference with the house 
 by the Aylmer family. 'I'hoy wanted a part of the house for the Protestant clergyman, 
 and built on a portion of tlie site also, and then we discontinued the school. On the 18th 
 of August, It^54, the following letter was addressed by the Governors to Sir Gerald 
 Aylmer : — 
 
 "Sir — Your letter, dated 14th ultimo, was read at a late meeting of the Governors. 
 They regret that circumstances should have arisen which, under their regulations, oblige 
 them to discontinue the schools at Donadea, and direct me to say that they will ])ay the 
 master and mistress to the 1st of November next. 
 
 " May I request you will apprize tlie teachers of the state of affairs ; I shall write to 
 them in due course. 
 
 " 1 have the honour, &c., 
 
 '• Eustace Tiiokp. 
 
 Sir G. Aylmer.' 
 
 Sir Gerald Aylmer wished to add the schoolroom to the house in which the clergyman o£ 
 the parish resided, which was contrary to our regulations. We told him, but he persisted 
 in it, and we closed our school. 
 
 2'J092. What was exactly the nature of your objection? — Any interference with the 
 schoolhousc on the ])art of any person whatever. 
 
 23093. Shall we find tiiat in the general regulations respecting the management of 
 English schools or schoolhouscs? 
 
 23094. [Uev. H. Hamilton. — You will find it in the rule, which states that the school- 
 house is not to be used for any other but school purposes. — Sir Gerald Aylmer selected 
 the site contiguous to the schoolhouse as most eligible for his purpose.] 
 
 23095. But he did not take any part of the school-house. — AVe considered that a direct 
 interference with our house. 
 
 23090. The school was discontinued because of this interference with the schoolhouse 
 and school land, not of any misconduct on the part of the master? — We did not attribute 
 misconduct to the master. 
 
 23097. [Rev. Hugh Hamilton. — There was no misconduct attributable to the master ; 
 he was a good old-fashioned master ; I always gave him as good a report as I could, but 
 I could not always do so.] 
 
 23098. The Conmiissioners instituted inquiries respecting his efficiency, and received evi- 
 dence from him to the following effect : — " You stated in your petition to the Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith's Schools, that the children of your school have always obtained the first place 
 at the charter schools and other schools where admission was to be had, by their general good 
 answering, and particularly their answering in Scriptures, and that petitioners have obtained, 
 on different occasions, honorary certificates from the Incorporated Society. Can yon con- 
 firm this statement before the Commissioners? — Yes. sir; it relates particularly to the 
 female school ; the Incorporated Society, for the benefit of every parish in the county of 
 Kildare, gives places to three or four girls in their school, and that part of the petition 
 refers to that. I think it right to state that evidence was given by the master before the 
 Commissioners to the efi'ect that his pupils were received into the school at Betaghstown, 
 for superior answering. 
 
 23009. [Rev. H. Hamilton.— lie stated so to me.] 
 
 23100. The Rev. James Walker being examined before us, stated, in answer to a question 
 put by me* — " Were you satisfied with the mode in which the school was conducted ? — 
 I'crfcctly. Did you examine the pupils on the occasion of your visits? — Almost every 
 day I visited them. In wdiat manner did you examine them ? — I had them up generally 
 in classes, or I took the whole school together, first the boys and then the girls. Did 
 you examine them only for the purpose of ascertaining whether they received due reli- 
 gious instruction, or did j'ou at all inquire into their proficiency in secular learning ? — 
 I examined them as much for one ])urpose as the other, and I always endeavoured to 
 give them information myself. Wove you satisfied then that adequate instruction was 
 
 ♦ Eviil.^ncc, 1387a. 
 
 &
 
 216 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Udulin. given to tlieiu in every dc])artmGnt? — Perfectly satisfied; I v\-as jirescnt at two public 
 
 ^ examinations, one held at Celbridge, where the girls are admitted into the select scliool, 
 
 SclmoUfnZdcd b'l'' ^"*i *^® '^'^''^^ '^* *'**^ Betaghstown school, -where the hoys are admitted, and on these 
 Erusmm'Sniiih, Esq. two occasions onc or two places were obtained, both by the girls and boys, from the 
 .Tolin Bnrlow, Esq. Donadea school." — I am glad you asked this question, because I can answer it is not 
 a fact ; a single syllable of it is not a fact, however the mistake has arisen ; it so hap- 
 pens that 1 am the Primate's Commissioner for that school, and every child admitted into 
 that school is by my order; there is no examination of the kind at the Betaghstown 
 school ; that I cannot be mistaken in ; I could show every memorial sent in by the masters 
 to liave their pupils recommended to that school. 
 
 2.310 1. It appears that this school was very numerously attended. In the Peport of tlie 
 Commissioners of Irish Education Inquiry, 1S26, it is stated that there were fifty eight chil- 
 dren attending, of tlie Established Church, and two Koman Catholics. It is called a parisli 
 school, in connexion with the Board of Erasmus Smirb. Have the Governors done any 
 thing to provide instruction in any English school elsewhere, in the district near Donadea ? 
 - — I am not aware, nor do we consider it necessary. 
 
 23102. Has the number of Protestant children attending diminished, or is an equally 
 numerous school kept uj) under other ausj)iccs ? — I should think not. 
 
 •<23103. In this case, the unascertained or inconsistent practice of the Governors with 
 regard to granting pensions, came out before the Connnissioners. It a]ipeared tliat the 
 reply to this JJr. Patrick Leggatts ajiplication, and the answer given to the Pcv. ilr. 
 Walker, was to the effect that the Board never granted any pensions/ — It seems that the 
 Board granted pensions in one instance, but certainly the rule is not to do it. 
 
 23104. It seems that the Governors feel that if they had adequate means, they might 
 increase the efficiency of their masters by setting before them the prospect of a retiring 
 allowance, if they continued faithful in the service of the Board? — Certainly, we might 
 apply that principle to the masters of the grammar schools, but if we were to carry it out 
 with respect to the English schools, of whicli there so many, a heavy burthen would be 
 thrown on our funds. 
 
 23105. Does not the principle apply alike in botli cases if you had sufficient means? — It 
 might be satisfactory if we could carry it out in botli cases, but I would bo more willing to 
 give pensions to the masters of the grammar schools than to the teachers of the English 
 schools : their position is very different. 
 
 23106. Was this man dismissed because of his having held the office of petty sessions' 
 clerk ?— No. 
 
 23107. He resigned that place and continued in the office of schoolmaster for some 
 years after ? — I am surprised at what is there stated, tliat the Governors were aware of his 
 holding this situation for so long a period. 
 
 ■<^3108. Notice is said to have been taken of that fact in the returns made by your 
 inspector, which is a matter for your inquiry. 
 
 23109. [Rev. H. Hamilton. — I have not the reports now before me, but I suppose I 
 noticed the fact in 18o0, when lie resigned.] 
 
 231 10. I should be glad to know whether this fact came to tlie knowledge of individual 
 Governors or not ? — If it was known to our Board that he did hold the office of petty 
 sessions' clerk for twenty-five years, I should be very much surprised. 
 
 23111. You mentioned just now that the masters of the English schools sometimes hold 
 the situation of pari.sh clerks ; are you of opinion that tliese offices interfere with the per- 
 formance of their duties as schoolmasters ? — I should not wish to see them hold any 
 situations incompatible with their duties. The office of petty sessions' clerk is particularly 
 objectionable : he is liable to be called on at all times and at all hours to issue summonses ; 
 he is invariably obliged to be present at the holding of ])etty sessions ; he is also obliged 
 to be present if any S])ccial sessions is lield ; and above all. what is very objectionable, tliere 
 is a good deal of litig;ition between parties, and he must be more or less mixed uj) in it, 
 and probal)ly come in contact with the parents of tlie children attending the school. 
 
 23112. On the m-]io1c, you would give the Commissioners to understand that the 
 school was discontinued in consequence of the interference on the part of Sir Gerald 
 Aylmcr with the school ])rcmises ? — Oh, certainly. I do not think the Commissioners arc 
 exactly aware of the facts of the case, and they sluill liavo the entire correspondence ou 
 the subject. 
 
 231 13. J believe I have now completed a review of the more important facts that were 
 brought under the notice of tiic Commissioners at tlieir public courts, and if there be any 
 matter remaining to be explained by the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Scliools, yon 
 will be so good as to notice it ? — I have very little to say. You made an observation 
 a vvliilc ago, tliat you expected reports from the Assistant i'ommissioners with regard to 
 our schools, generally, throughout the countiy. It would be convenient to us, and, per- 
 haps, to i\\v. Commissioners, if thei-c^ be no objection, il' we were furnished with these 
 reports if you think they call for further e.\j)lanation. 
 
 231 14. There is not now a full quorum of the Commissioners present, but that question 
 shall be brouglit before them? — There are one or two matters connected with the 
 accounts, which have not yet been furnished in the manner ordered by the Commissioners, 
 tliat I feel called on, ])orsonally, to ex]>lain to the Commissioners. It was stated that our 
 practice was to receive letters of credit from our agtmts in the country, and that all the 
 money was lodged in the Bank of Ireland. The letters of credit irom our southern
 
 EVIDENCE. 217 
 
 estates arc payable to mo, as treasurer of the board; I endorse tliera, and the registrar I'luli.v. 
 
 then lodges tbc amount to the credit of tlio Governors. 1 never bad, or received a penny .... 
 
 of the money. In November, 18 J4, it was brouglit before you, that a letter of credit was srii,7Jsf"u'nd",lhi'i 
 sent u]) for £ 1,900. U])<)ii that occasion tbe registrar stated to me that it would be iiicon- /Cmsnius'SwU/i, /•,«/. 
 venient to liave a meeting of the (Jovernors, as th('y were not in J)uij)in. or iur some otlicr Jolin Biwluw, K«(|. 
 cause, it would bo inconvenient. Oursalaiies were payaljle in tliat montli, and be stated to 
 me that it v\ould be very convenient to have UGOO to pay our schoolmasters, or great incon- 
 venience would attend their not receiving their money. This conversation took place in the 
 bank. I told him to take tbe letter of credit for t; 1,900, to lodge £1,300 to the credit of 
 the Governors, and to lodge £(iO0 to bis own credit. That was in November; and at tbe 
 first meeting of tlie Governors, lield on December Gtli, 18.04, I made a report to the Gover- 
 nors, and the following was tin; minute made of tli./ transaction : — ''The treasurer reported, 
 that since last meeting be had received from Mr Keann^y a remittance! of XI. 900; that 
 the registrar being in want of immediate iunds, he had banded him £G00, and had lodged 
 the balance to the credit of the Governors- amount, £1,300." That minute will show you 
 how the matter stands. 
 
 2'3l\'). That is a coiiipleto explanation, and the only question about it in my mind, and 
 in the mind of Mr. Stephens, was as to tbe mode in wliicii the transaction was brouglit 
 into the accounts. As to the matter of i'act the Commissinners were perfectly satisfied. 
 — That was the only instance in wliicii a tiling of this description took ])lace ; and I 
 wish to have tbe opportunity of showing, that when it did take place, the registrar 
 brought tbe matter immediately bef re the Governors. There is another matter which, 
 as you mention Mr. Stepliens will be present on a future day, I will not now notice; but 
 1 vvisli to e.vplain what took place witli regard to the sum returned to Parliament by tbe 
 Governors as tlieir income from tlio southern estates, and that I'cturned by Mr. Kearney, 
 and 1 wish Dr. Hancock to attend to tliis explanation, Tbe Governors returned to I'ar- 
 liameut a sum of £5,4 12, as their receipts from tiic southern estates. The gross rental 
 of the Governors was £5,083 7*. 8d., which includes tbe fees of the agent. Of this 
 income Mr. Kearney remitted to the Governors, in the year 1852, £4,200. Then we 
 refiorted to Parliament that tbe income of our southern estates, in that year, was 
 £4,304 17s. lOd. In that same year we received £104 17s. lOtZ. from our former agent, 
 Mr. Galwny; and if you add £104 17.5. \0d. to the £4.200, you will find it makes exactly 
 the sum of £4 304 17s. lOd. Mr. Kearney returned that be received £4,200, without 
 including the balance we received from the former agent, but we returned the gross 
 which we received. You will lind also that our gross rental of the southern estates 
 returned for tbe year 1852 was £5,G83 7s. 8c?., including fees. Then the Governors 
 returned to Parliament £5,412 15s., to which, if you add £270 12s. 8(/., the receivers' 
 fees on the gross, it will produce tiie sum I first gave you. The Governors return to 
 Parliament the net receipt, but Mr. Kearney gives you the gross that be receives. 
 
 231 l(i. [Sccretari/. — These figures perfectly explain the discrepancy.] 
 
 231 17. The next point to which I must refer is the allegation, that we make no improve- 
 ments on our southern estates — in fact, that we just receive our rents, and do notliing more. 
 It also was insinuated that our 1 mds are set under value. I can only say as to the latter 
 statenient, we always advertise them before setting. We have not advertised the setting 
 of our southern estates, because tbe lands were set in very small parcels, and we wished 
 to consolidate them; and we wished also that our agent. ^Ir. Kearney, should recommend 
 to us solvent and good tenants. 1 think it will be lound, that in the settings of our lands 
 wo have taken as much care of them as if we were setting our own property ; that every 
 exertion is made on the i)art of the Governors to obtain a fair value for these lands. JMr. 
 Kearney, I should say, who is the agent of the southern estates, is a county surveyor; he 
 is a jKirticularlv clever, intelligent person, and his character is as good as tliat of any man in 
 bis position in Ireland. 'When he undertook our agency, we placed tiie management of the 
 property entirely in his hands, and he agreed to charge nothing additional ior superin- 
 tending improvements. We have always attended to his recommendations with regard to 
 our tenantry; and in some particular districts we have cassisted in the building of the tenants' 
 houses; we have given them slates and timber, &c. In th.e years we have passed through, 
 we have i>aid large sums on account of losses by our tenantry, and not a single allowance 
 has been given, or improvement made, that is not to be found in our minutes ; and, 1 tldnk, 
 we will show you that we have acted fairly and liberally by our tenantry, and, perhaps, not so 
 much as we were entitled to do. It is on account of the charge made in the evidence that 
 I make these observations ; because 1 perceive it has been st.ated to you that the 
 Governors, in fact, merely received the rent, and thought of nothing else. I can saj' for 
 myself, when portions of our soutlicrn estates were to be let, in 1841, that many and many 
 a day I have spent in Kildare-street considering tbe matters connected with these lettings 
 with our agents and officers. We endeavoured to see that our lands were properly set, 
 and that no tenant was dispossessed while we could retain him in jiossession ; but we did 
 not shrink from dispossessing him if we thought ho ought not to bold his land. In 
 Tippcrary it required a good deal of discretion to manage our property at that time ; and 
 we think the more searching the inquiry is as to the setting of our lands, and tbe income 
 wo receive for them, the more it will become apparent that we could not manage our 
 properties better. 
 
 23118. Chairman. — I may state that the estates of the Governors will be inspected by 
 our ins])ector of estates, and due notice will be given to tbe Governors before he proceeds 
 
 Vol. II. 2 F
 
 218 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, lEELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DOBLIN. 
 
 The Ojvcrnors of t/it 
 
 Schools founded Iji/ 
 Erasmits'Smith, Est/. 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. 
 
 on his mission. — Perhaps it would be well to i)ut that gentleman in commmiication with 
 Mr. Kearney and Mr. Hunt. 
 
 2311 9. He will give notice to tlie agent of the estate, before he visits it. — I am very glad 
 to hear that will be done, for I think it will be satisfactory to the Commissioners to know 
 that we have done our duty with regard to our jjropcrties. I may also mention, that a 
 good many years ago, a good deal of the southern estate was in the hands of middle- 
 men — the O'Grady family — and we had no small difficulty to get our property out of their 
 hands; but we did not shrink from making the exertion, and we got back 1,000 acres, 
 which we set directly to our tenants. 
 
 The Erasmus Smith 
 
 Grammar School, 
 Galwaij — continued. 
 
 E. Berwick, E6C[. 
 
 The Erasmus Smith Grammar School, Galway — (contmued).* 
 Edivard Berwick, Esq., President of the Queen's College, Galway, sworn and examined 
 
 23120. Chairman. — You are President of the Queen's College, at Galway? — Yes, my 
 Lord. 
 
 23121. Have you a statement you wish to make, respecting some evidence given before 
 tha Commissioners at Galway ? — Yes. 
 
 23122. The evidence was given by Mr. Thomas Killeen, the assistant master of the 
 Erasmus Smith school, Galway. The Commissioners asked if he could assign any reason 
 for the decline of his school; among other reasons he mentions:! — " When the Queen's 
 College opened, I consider the principal reason for our scholars falling oft', is, they were 
 admitted there befoi-e they knew their grammar at school." Have you any explanation to 
 give with respect to this statement ?— He stated subsequently, my Lord, that students 
 were admitted into the college, and obtained scholarships there, witliout knowing their 
 Latin grammar ; and attributed the falling oft" in the number of scholars at the Erasmus 
 Smith's school to that amongst other reasons. That statement is totally inaccurate. For 
 the five years preceding the time at which Mr. Killeen made this statement, but five 
 students from the Erasmus Smith school had obtained scholarships in the Queen's College, 
 and but one of these scholarships was a classical scholarship. They were scholarshi ps for 
 which a course in classics was not necessary, and except by the previous classical matri- 
 culation examination, we have no means in such cases of ascertaining whether they know 
 their Latin grammar or not. Four of these scholarships were science scholarships, and for 
 these science scholarships there is no classical examination, except the previous matricu- 
 lation examination, to which all the students are submitted. So that your Lordship and 
 the Commissioners ^vill see at once, that to attribute the falling ofl' in the students at the 
 Erasmus Smith school to such a fact, as that five entered the college from it, in the com-se 
 of five years, is quite a misstatement. With regard to the names of those gentlemen who 
 did obtain scholarships, Mr. Nesbitt, one of our classical professors, is here, and he will 
 state to you how far Mr. Killeen's evidence as to the students being ignorant of Latin 
 grammar, is true, or the opposite. I hear that Mr. Killeen has since endeavoured to get 
 out of his evidence by a statement to this eftect, that he did not allude to the present time 
 when he was giving his evidence in September last ; but that on the opening of tiie college, 
 in 1849, some scholarships were given away to men, who, as he states, were ignorant of 
 their grammar. How far that would account for the number of students attending in 
 September last, at the school, it is for you to determine, even supposing the statement to 
 be correct. However, I would shortly state what took place at the opening of the college. 
 When it opened at the end of October, 1849, we had a number of scholarships to give 
 away — many more than ever we had since — I think we had forty-three ; and at the first 
 matriculation examination, there were twenty-eight candidates for scholarships — we gave 
 only fourteen. At the next scholarship examination, in January, 1850, there were forty 
 candidates, and we gave away all the scholarships. But I stated tlicn, that we would in 
 future insist upon a much higher standard than that upon wliich the candidates then 
 obtained their scliolarsliips; and also, that the reason we gave away all our scliolarships 
 then was there being a misapprehension as to whether the colleges would open or not ; 
 and it being very industriously circulated that tlic college in Galway would not open at 
 all. Tlic candidates for scholarships, therefore, had not prepared tliemsclves as studiously 
 as they might liave otherwise done, but 1 stated distinctly that we would always insist on 
 a much higher standard ; and accordingly, in November or December, 18,'jO, this circum- 
 stance took place : there were, in the classical department, five scholarships vacant, and 
 there were but three candidates, and we rejected every one of these candidates. One of 
 them appealed for a special visitation, on the ground that we had no light to withliold a 
 scliolarship from him, as there were fewer candidates tlian the scliolarships vacant. He 
 obtained the special visitation, and the visitors confirmed our decision. I make tin's state- 
 ment for the purpose of showing that we did not give scholarships in the way that Mr. 
 Killeen, stated ; and I will read, with your Lordsliip's permission, a statement which I then 
 made to the visitors with reference to the mode in wliicli wo conferred our scholarshijis: — 
 
 " The President and Council have always considered that they possessed the full and 
 sole right of determining what amount of answering was suflicient to entitle a candidate 
 for scliolarsiiips, to obtain that distinction. Tliey feel it almost unnecessary to remind 
 the visitors that they arc urged by every motive of duty, and of interest, to confer as many 
 scholarships as tliey conscientiously can, as sucli honors, when conferred upon deserving 
 
 » Evidinei', O^TS, Vol. J. t Kviikncf, 6600.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 219 
 
 candidates, are the very best advertisomcnt the now colleges can have ; hut they cannot 
 conceive a course wliich would more eflcctually frustrate the ends for wliicli the colleges 
 were instituted, and more justly destroy their reputation, than to confer tlieir lionors and 
 emoluments upon students without regard to tlie industry tliey have evinced, or tlie (piah'- 
 fications they possess, and merely on tlic low grounds tliat thei-o are no otlier candidates.'' 
 Tliat was tlic principle on which we acted; and though in January some- scholar- 
 ships were given away to men not worthy of them, I wish to state, with regard to tlie 
 students who came Jrom Mr. llallowell's school, and I am quite sure if he were*liere him- 
 self he would state the same, tliat the best scliolars lie ever sent out were those who 
 obtained classical scholarships at the first opening of the college ; so that wlicther Mr. 
 Killecn's statement be applied to the time when he gave his evidence, or a])plicd to the 
 opening of tlie college, it is certainly most inaccurate. From the time the college opened 
 to the period the witness gave this evidence, we established in all forty-five scholarships ; 
 and thougli, perhaps, in the early part they might have been given to undeserving candi- 
 dates, or candidates not sufficiently deserving of them, yet they were told that in future 
 unless the students came up to a certain standard of answering they would not obtain 
 scholarships. No doubt the standard of answering is still low. The curriculum we endeavour 
 to teach in the college is a very extensive one ; and every man, to master that curriculum, 
 ought to come to college extremely well grounded in classics. Classics particularly enter into 
 the course of examination for the degree of A.B. ; but it is only compulsory during the first 
 year ; and unless the student comes very well grounded in classics, he cannot master the 
 curriculum. I have stated this fact over and over again, in all the reports which I have 
 given to the Government on the state of tlie college, to show the necessity of establishing 
 a better system of intermediate schools, and to enable men to come to the college in a 
 better state of preparation. 
 
 23123. Rev. Dr. Graves. — There was a portion of evidence given before the Commis- 
 sioners by Mr. Ilallowell, which I think I ought to read now, as it is so closely connected 
 with the statement which you have made. I asked ]\Ir. Hallovicll* — " The entrance of 
 pupils who obtained scholarships since 1850 would not be large enough materially to affect 
 the number of pupils in your school ? — Certainly not. The entrance was, on the average, 
 two in each year ? — 1 think so ; but I may also state, if the Commissioners allow me, 
 that while I am sensible of the loss 1 have sustained, I am also sensible that I got pupils 
 who would, probably, never have come to me but for the Queen's Colleges." I asked, 
 " Do you intimate that of thirteen pupils who obtained scholarships in 1849 and 1850, 
 none were imperfectly prepared for admission into the college? — I certainly think that 
 some of them were inadequately prepared for scholarships. Does your observation apply 
 to pupils who were jirepared by yourself? — It does. I conceive they were not long enough 
 at school. But with regard to pupils who have been admitted from your school into 
 
 college in the latter years- — that is, from October, 1851, and down to the present time 
 
 do you make any similar allegation ? — 1 certainly should have wished some of them to 
 have been better prepared. Has the standard of preparation for scholarship examinations 
 been raised since 1 850 ? — I am sure it has. I believe it has." — No student from Mr. 
 Hallowell's school has obtained a classical scholarship since the end of the year 1850. 
 
 23124. Then, perhaps, the classical knowledge alluded to by Mr. Killeen has reference 
 only to students passing the matriculation examination? — To those who enter into the 
 faculties of arts. But four students from Mr. Hallowell obtained science scholarships. In the 
 faculty of arts the students are previously submitted to a matriculation examination before 
 they can stand for it. Mr. Hallowell seems to say the average was two in the year ; there 
 were but five in five years. Some of his students, the first year, obtained agricultural 
 and engineering scholarships, but there was no classical examination for these scholarships. 
 The extraordinary thing is, that of the students who entered from his school on the first 
 opening of the college, with, perhaps, one or two exceptions, the best students were those 
 who obtained scholarships. 
 
 23125. Since 1850 no pupil has attained a classical scholarship ? — Not one. 
 
 23126. Have you made any inquiry for the purpose of ascertaining what number of 
 classical schools there are in existence in the province of Connaught ? — I have. 
 
 23127. Would you be so good as to state to the Commissioners the result of this inquiry? 
 — 1 hold in my hand what gives you a view of classical education in Connaught. Tliis 
 statement I believe to be coj-rect ; and it states the towns in Connaught having classical 
 schools, or schools under that denomination : — 
 
 " Galway. — Erasmus Smith's, Winter's, jSPGrath's. 
 
 " Loughrea. — One, with very few pupils. 
 
 " Shgo.- — Two schools. 
 
 " Eyrecourt (on Banks' foundation), few pupils. 
 
 " College of St. Jarlath, Tuam, chiefly ecclesiastical. 
 
 " Elphin Diocesan school having been visited by the Commissionei'S, I omit it _from 
 the list. 
 
 " Tuam had a diocesan school, but it does not, I think, exist now. 
 
 " Castlebar had a school endowed by Lord Lucan, but it does not exist. 
 
 " Roscommon, a sort of classical school. 
 
 " Westport, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballinrobe, and Ballina, were reported as having 
 schools, but indifl'erent and badly attended." 
 
 77te Eran/itiis Smith 
 
 Grammaf Schoot, 
 
 (iulway. 
 
 K. IJerwick, Esq. 
 
 Vol. II. 
 
 Evidence, 20170, Vol. II. 
 
 2F2
 
 220 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Krosmvs Smiifi 
 Grammar S'htioU 
 
 v.. Berwick, Esq. 
 
 Pr.jf. W. Xi-sbitt. 
 
 2312S. Dr. Andrews. — Have you visited the model National school in Gahvay ? — Yes. 
 
 23129. Is it well conducted ? — V^cry well conducted. 
 
 23130. Are the subjects of instruction wcl' taught? — Very well ; and I only regret it 
 has not a classical assistant, for the prejiaration of scliolars for college. 
 
 23131. Do you consider tliat the character of the Englisli education given is of a higli 
 class? — It is of a very high class. Professor Neshitt examined there on one or two occa- 
 sions, as likewise some of the other professors, and they always spoke of it in the highest 
 terms. 
 
 Professor Willimn Neshitt, sworn and examined. 
 
 231 ,"2. Cliairman. — Wliat office do you hold in the Galvvay College? — I am Professor 
 of Greek. During a period of five years I held tlio office of Proiessor of Latin. 
 
 23133. Have you any statement tliat you wish to make to the Commissioners with 
 reference to Mr. Killeens evidence ? — I have but little to add with reference to Mr. 
 Killeen's evidence to what you have heard from the President ; but as I have examined 
 those students who entered from Mr. Ilallowell's scliool from the year 1850 to 1855, 
 inclusive — that is, four years and tlireo quarters preceding the statement made by Mr. 
 Killeen — should the Commis.sioners desire it, I can inform them what the acquirements of 
 those students who entered tlie college from Erasmus Smitli's scliool were froni 1 850 to 1 85 1 , 
 inclusive. I have got the names of all tlie students here, and I find tliem to have been 
 five in number, four of whom obtained scliolarships, all of which were science scholarships. 
 It has been already explained to the Commissionei-s, that the scholars in such cases are 
 only required to pass a matriculation e.xaniination in classics. I may mention, as, perhaps, 
 it will make the matter more familiar to Dr. Graves, that there is a strong analogy between 
 these science scholarships and the science sizarshi[) in Trinity College. A science sizar 
 is required to have just so much classical knowledge as the ordinary matriculating students. 
 Many of those students have attained distinguished scientific appointments. I may illus- 
 trate the unfairness of ^Ir. Killeen's statement, by ])ntting a similar statement with regard to 
 Trinity College — should one say that a person obtained a sizarship without knowing his 
 Latin Grammar. I have known many of these sizars to be men of very slender classical 
 acquirements, but of distinguished scientific attainments; and 1 would not say that persons 
 obtained sizarships in Trinity College wiio did not know their Latin Grannnar. because 
 it would immediately occur to a person hearing that statement tliat all the .sizars were 
 men of no distinction. The gentlemen who obtained scholarships from the Erasmus Smith 
 school, during four years and three-quarters, were mere science scholars; and I may now 
 speak of their classical acquirements. One of them, his classical acquirements were very 
 slender, the three others could easily obtain their matriculation ; and one of tlieni, whose 
 name appears on my list, his classical acquirements wore so high that 1 find in two years 
 of his collegiate course I was able to put him in the senior Greek class, where he is at 
 2)resent ; and he is one of the best students in it. Thus, ol these four scholars, three were 
 quite unexceptionable, and as to the other I do not know whether it was not undue 
 straining of the line marked out to give lum his matriculation examination. I have not the 
 notes of his examination just now, but from my recollection he was a bad classical scholar. 
 This is a classification of tlio pupils, with reference to their acquirements, that have entered 
 from this school during the last four years and three quarters. 
 
 23134. Do you vfish to make any statement with reference to the qualifications of the 
 other candidates who have entered college? — 'i he st^iiulard, as has been already stated, is 
 lower than we desire, owing to the bad state of intermediate education. We have endea- 
 voured to keep it as high as is consistent with the circumstances of the province ; but we 
 have it, as I said, much lower than would be desirable. I examined Jlr. IlallowcH's school 
 lately, and, perhaps, the Commissioners would desire tokmiw. as they saw the school under 
 unfavourable circumstances, whether it has rallied at all since they visited Gahvay. I 
 examined it very recently, and 1 found un the register thirty five pupils ; and tliosc tliat I 
 examined appeared to be very well taught. I examined his first and second classes, and they 
 both appear to have been carefully taught. I tliink that this statement is due to Mr. llallowcll. 
 
 23135. [^Edward Bcvwick, Esq. — 1 certainly think the circumstances under which Mr. 
 Hallowell entered the school ought to be taken into consideration, if there is to be any 
 decision come to on the matter. Certainly, when he entered on Ids duties, tlic school had 
 fallen very much in pnldic estimation. The jireceding master had been very incflicicnt for 
 some years. I think it ri^lit to make this statement cm iMr. liallowell's belialf. I believe 
 he is an efficient man, and if he had a good assistant he wmdd have got on much better.] 
 
 23130. There arc a few observations wliich, if the Commissioners allow me, I will make. 
 
 23137. Cliairman. — At what time did you examine the school? — I examined the last 
 time the day before yesterday. 
 
 23138. Was the report you have referred to drawn u]) witli reference to your last 
 examination':' — It was on the last examination; and 1 may state the examination was quite 
 unexpected. 
 
 23139. The Commissioners will lie h.'ipyiy to hear your observations. — 1 examined the 
 head class in Livy and Lucian, and I fouiul that the teaching, so i'ar as it went, w.as sound 
 and judicious, and made a very favcnirable impression on me as to the mode of instruction 
 pursued in the scliool. I examined also his pupils in elementary grammar, and they 
 appeared to be very judiciously tanglit. He also showed nu; jiieces in English composition, 
 Gn^ek, and historical essays, which lie said had been executed by his jiujiils; and they 
 appeared to mc to be very good, indeed. I read one of them nearly through ; and the
 
 EVIDENCE. 221 
 
 COmpo>ition, as regards spoiling, punctuation, and, in fact, tlie entire getting up of tlii.s Dcblin. 
 
 Greek piece, appeared to bo very creditable to the master. ,.,. — — 
 
 'j;}140. Dr. Andrews. — How long have the pu])i],s been instructed by Mr. llallowell, to aramma""sc'/iu'o'l,' 
 whom you are ret'orring? — That 1 cannot Kay, as i did not inquire. Galway. 
 
 231 n. You cmnot tell nie wlietiier tliey liave been long in the ischool, or Iiavt; come to Trof. \V. Xt-.'-bitt. 
 it recently '?--No. 
 
 23142. You cannot tell, therefore, wbetlier their instruction is to be attributed to Mr. 
 Hallowcll's teaching, or to tiic nia.ster of some other school, before they came to Air. llal- 
 lowell '.' — No ; exi'ept U])on tlie general ground, that I do not think they had the opjiortu- 
 uities of acquiring tiieir information in the inuuediate locality. 
 
 23143. Tiiougli the education wa.s not far advanced, it e.xliibited some training? — Yes. 
 
 23144. \Edwiiv<l lierwick, I'^si]. — lie has now a very good .school.] 
 
 23145. I should say, that the instruction Wiis not merely sound. Ijut e.xiiibitod careful 
 teaching. 1 think it tlie more necessary to make this statement as the Commissioners saw 
 the school under very unfavourable circumstances; and just before coming up here, the 
 idea occurred to nie, tliat the Commissioners would wish, from an independent source, to 
 receive information aa to the present condition of the scliool. 
 
 2314(i. Did you examine any of tlie pupils in tlie model National scliool. Mr. Nesbitt ? — 
 Yea ; and also attended the [uiblic e.xaniination. 
 
 2.3147. Have you been often at the model school ? — 1 have visited it only twice ; but on 
 one occasion, a gentleman who was witli me and myself examined for a consideraiile time ; 
 and on a late occasion, I saw a public examination conducted, I was jjrcscnt for live or 
 ei.x hours, so I got a good idea of the nature of the instruction given. 
 
 23118. Was the public examination conducted in a manner to test the instruction and 
 education of the boys?— .So 1 thought; it satislicd me. 
 
 23149. Judging from that examination, what is your opinion a.s to the manner in which 
 the boys arc instructed? — I forme! a very high o[)inibn of the instruction. 1 heard them 
 examined in English grammar and reading aloud; in the elements of natural science, 
 ciiemistry, &c., &c.. and I certainly formed a very high opinion of the instruction. 
 
 23150. Did you hear them examined in arithmetic? — No; I did not. 
 
 23151. Would you s.ay that the boys were inferior to the general run of boys in other 
 Bchools, of the same age? — Quite the contrary. 1 thought the pupils displayed a great 
 amount of intelligence. 
 
 23 I ~yL Do you consider tliat they had been well educated? — I was quite surprised at their 
 answering in natural science ; and 1 may say, that I was assured by the professor of chemis- 
 try, a very distinguished man, he was very much pleased with the answering of the pupils 
 in natural science, who appeared to be very intelligent, and for so young pu))ils their know- 
 ledge was very extensive. 
 
 23 1 53. Do you remember was there an examination in English grammar and parsing ? — 
 Yes; 1 heard them examined in these branches. 
 
 23154. \V'as the answering in them creditable? — Very creditable ; not merely in parsing 
 prose, but in parsing poetry ; which is an analysis, in fact, of poetic sentences, and which 
 requires a greater knowledge of grammar. 
 
 23155 And some mental cultivation? — Yea. I also placed great stress upon their 
 reading aloud. I think no person can read intelligently aloud, without having received 
 considerable culture ; and the reading, not of one, but of many pupils, was very good. 
 
 2-J15IJ. They evinced, then, a knowledge of the auth.or, and at the same time, their own 
 ability ? — .\nd a good deal of culture. 
 
 23157. Chairman. — Have you any statement that you wish to make with reference to 
 the state of education generally, or any suggestions to oft'or ? — I think the state of inter- 
 mediate education in our province is at a very low ebb. I scarcely know a school, in which 
 pupils can obtain what is requisite to come up to the standard which we think it desirable 
 for pupils to arrive at prior to entering our college. There are scarcely any facilities afforded 
 for the class of education we require. If you look over the province, if you take into 
 account the limited number that are now going into boarding schools ; if you take into 
 account the inefficient state in which the very few classical schools we have are, and the 
 quality of the teaching given in the majority of the classical schools through the province, 
 you will find it is almost impossible for the middle class to obtain that amount of instruc- 
 tion which would enable them profitably to attend the college. To this 1 mainly attribute 
 the smallness of the numbers in our college — it is the cause. 
 
 23158. Are you of opinion, that if there were good classical schools there would be an 
 adequate attendance of scholars ?— I have no doubt of it ; and I have no doubt that those 
 who attended woidd come to our college in a very different state of preparation, and would 
 be prepared for their various callings in a different way when leaving the college. There 
 are some other points which I would wish to notice, with the permission of the Commis- 
 sioners, with regard to the Erasnms Smith school at Galway. With regard to free pupils, I 
 may state, that of the thirty-five I found on the register, no fewer than eighteen are free 
 pupils. This fact may be interesting to the Commissioners to know ; and if they would allow 
 me, 1 would express my opinion that this is a very embarrassing circumstance to the master. 
 I need not tell the Commissioners how very difficult it is to educate pupils on the founda- 
 tion together with the sons of the rich — how difficult it is to educate them in the same 
 school, and how much it is calculated to lower the character of the school, and to prevent 
 the rich from sending their sons, if there be any thing like an equal number, or as in the 
 present instance, a majority of the pupils be free. There is another circumstance to which
 
 222 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 UlELIX. 
 
 The Erasmus Smith 
 
 Ortimmar School, 
 
 Galtraif. 
 
 Prof. W. Ncsbitt. 
 
 I would wish to call attention — namely, the mode in which free pupils are admitted on the 
 foundation. They are not admitted on any principle. At the time the grammar schools 
 were founded, it was utterly impossible to obt?in education in any other place ; I can tlicre- 
 fore, understand, that the present indiscriminate admis*ion should bo given to tlie school: 
 but now there are excellent schools — schools at which almost gratuitous education can 
 be had — where, in fact, all the sons of the poor who wish merely to obtain an excellent 
 commercial education, can obtain it. I think that is a very different state of things from 
 what was contemplated by the founder ; and for that reason, a rule which might be very 
 properly adopted at that time, might be very inapplicable now. After a carefid consider- 
 ation of the subject, I think that no persons should bo admitted on the foundation, except 
 — first, those wlio were absolutely unable to pay ; and secondly, those who had manifested 
 some aptitude for the higher branches of education. I really do not see it is any kindness 
 to a youth to force him among his superiors in social position, wlien he gets precisely 
 as good an education in a scliool where he will meet his equals. I do not see there is any 
 advantage conferred on youth by this system, but on the contrary, I see that very great 
 inconvenience is put on the head master. The head master of the Galway school has 
 informed me, that the admis.sions which took place lately were not made on any intelligible 
 principle — that some of the pupils who had been admitted would be able to pay; and in no 
 case, I think, has tlie latter, and most essential point been taken into account — namely, 
 whether the pupils so admitted, had manifested any special aptitude for the higher branches 
 of education. 
 
 23159. Do all those pupils study classics ? — They may if they please. 
 
 23 1 60. Are you aware, in point of fact, if they do ? — I am not aware it is the case, in point 
 of fact. 
 
 23161. Dr. Andrews. — Do you contemplate any advantage likely to result from free 
 pupils manifesting some special aptitude, that would in any degree jorevent one of the 
 mischiefs you pointed out ? — I tliink if admission were made on the ground of special 
 aptitude, it would altogether do away with the discredit due to admissions on the 
 foundation ; and, another thing, the head master would have the consolation of tliinking 
 tliat if he was giving instruction gratuitouslj', at all events, he would be repaid by the 
 credit derived after they left the school from clever lads who were educated there. 
 
 23162. You think that lads admitted on account of merit after an examination, even 
 though a little under the rank of most bo3-s in the school, would not be considered 
 discreditable to the school, and would be regarded by the other pupils as more their 
 equals ? — The sizars of Trinity College, if they are gentlemen in manner and bearing, do 
 not feel any social degradation from being mixed with the otlier students on tlie terms of 
 perfect equality. 
 
 231 65. Similar views were taken by other gentlemen who were examined before us? — 
 I wish also to make a statement with reference to the nature of the endowment connected 
 with tlie Erasmus Smith grammar school. The Governors appear to think that il the master 
 be able to exhibit a very extensive scliool, that then they ought to assist him. I think 
 they do not take sufficiently into account the circumstances of Galway. I was present at 
 an examination of the English school a short time since, and the Governors seemed to me^ 
 to come to that conclusion. I need not point out to the Commissioners the great disadvan- 
 tage the Erasmus Smith school labours under in reference to some of its rules — the religious 
 question. 1 allude to its being incumbent on the master to give religious instruction to the 
 pupils indiscriminately. This places the school under great disadvantage in such a district, 
 and there are a great many other difficulties that this school has to contend with, which I 
 need not point out, as they must be familiar to the Commissioners. 
 
 23164. I do not think that difficulty reall}' presses on the master, for he has not com- 
 ])elled Roman Catholics to attend his religious instruction '? — The fact is, he does not ; but 
 still tlie general impression around is, that the school is a Protestant foundation. It is 
 situated in a Catholic district, and I think that this is a difficulty wliich has not been taken 
 into account, in estimating the difficulties the master has to contend with. 1 may corrobo- 
 rate tliis statement by this fact, that one of tlie most intelligent Roman Catholic gentry in 
 the county of Galway, on a recent occasion, went so far as to attribute altogetlier the failure 
 of the scliool to this circumstance. I do not concur in that opinion, or any thing like it, 
 but I merely put it forward to show the Commissioners that this is one of the diHiculties ; 
 tliougli practically the Iicad master has met tliis difficulty, and not interfered with the 
 religion of the pupils, yet I cannot but think that it is one of the difficulties against which 
 he has to contend ; and it is one of those circumstances wliicli ought to procure him 
 a favourabh^ consideration from the (Jovernors of the school. At all events, there are 
 numerous local difficulties he has to contend against ; and 1 do think it is rather hard to 
 expect a master, who went down vvitliout an extensive ca])ital, aU at once, to employ it at 
 the risk that the masters he would engage would give complete satisfaction, would be able 
 to give instruction in all those Ijranches of education which are really taught in schools of 
 this class. There is no allowance made for a master of modern languages, nor for an 
 English master, nor for a science master. What is it the Govt^rnors have done ? Tliey 
 have sent down a classical master: Mr. llallowcll is a classical man, and they gave him 
 a classical assistant — that is, they have given him that assistance which is least adapted to 
 his circumstances. 
 
 231C5. Which was the least required lie may bo an excellent teacher, but he is least 
 
 required. To raise this school, there should ])C a science as well as a classical as.sistant 
 master. It would be a great advantage to have this and other branches properly reprc-
 
 EVIDENCE. 223 
 
 sentctl. In order to make this school efficient, tlic master lately employed, at his own risk, a Dlbli.v. 
 
 master in modern languages and in science. I really do think, that ii' a man iiad not extensive 
 
 capital, and was not speculative, he would not all at once appoint such masters as would o,am'nar"srhZf' 
 
 make his school rcspectuhle, and give general satisfaction. I tliiiik tliis is the rational fiuUomj. 
 
 view to take of the case. I therefore tliink, tliat in the first jdacc, the endowment is insufli- Trof. W. Nesldtt. 
 
 cient, and in tlie next place, I think that this insufficient endowment is injudiciously dis- 
 
 trihutcd. Another matter 1 wisli to hring under the notice of the Commissioners is, that 
 
 the head master has informed me, that ho has no voice in the appointment of the second 
 
 master. That 1 tliink a decided fatality in the constitution of this school, i think that a 
 
 division of responsibility of this kind must be very injurious. The head master ought to 
 
 be made resiJonsible for the condition of the scliool; and in making him responsible, j-ou 
 
 should give him the correlative advantage of responsibility, the appointment of tlie second 
 
 master, and the selection of his instruments. 
 
 The Commissioners of Chaiutable Donaiions and Bequests for Ireland. The Commissionert 
 
 23160. Secretary. — There is a large class of endowments and schools which are under VonaiZn''^^d 
 the jurisdiction of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests. They have lin/uesif 
 
 the power, where money is left as a gift or bequest, and wliere it is misapplied, under the .A"' Ireland. 
 Act of Parliament, to take proceedings for the recovery of tlie same ; and when they recover 
 it, they then retain, to a certain extent, the management of the fund. Mr. Hercules 
 M'Donnell, who has been for some time one of the secretaries of the Commissioners of 
 Charitable Donations and Bequests, now attends to give some evidence to the Commis- 
 sioners with regard to these endowments. 
 
 Hercules BlacDonnell, Esq., Secretary of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Jl.MacDonnell, Esq. 
 Bequests for Ireland, sworn and examined. 
 
 23167. Chairman. — What office do you hold? — I am one of two secretaries to tlie Board 
 of Charitable Donations and Bequests for Ireland. 
 
 23168. The Commissioners will be happy to hear any statement you have to make? — 
 The view which has occurred to me is, that it is most natural for the Commissioners to 
 inquire into tlie great number of cases which have been brought from time to time 
 before our notice by your Secretary, in which endowments for schools have either been 
 miaap])lied or concealed, and of which no trace appeared in our records as having come 
 before us, in any way, so far as wc can discover. I may, thei-efore, naturally be asked to 
 explain how it comes that our board has never interfered, or interfered effectually, in 
 such a variety of cases. 
 
 23169. Bev. Dr. Graves. — Your board being constituted for the special purpose of rec- 
 tifying abuses in the management of charities, yon propose to account for the misapplica- 
 tion or loss of school endowments, notwithstanding tlie existence of your board "■' 
 
 23170. [Secretary The course adopted by the Commissioners, in their inquiries, was 
 
 to direct mo whenever a case was brought under their notice, in wliich a bequest was mis- 
 appHed, to forward a statement of the facts to the Board of Charitable Donations and 
 Bequests ; and to that class of cases Mr. M'Donnell has alluded.] 
 
 23171. Would you be so good as to offer some explanation accounting for the fact to 
 which you refer '? — There arc two principal and plain causes, to which it can be attri- 
 buted. The first arises out of the histoiy of the legislation on the subject for a long 
 period. For a very long period there were no Acts of Parliament enabling any public or res- 
 ponsible body to deal with such cases, and in that way abuses crept in, which were sanctioned 
 by usage, and even to a very recent period, the parties concerned in them were not actually 
 aware that they were dealing wrongly. A great many cases escaped notice altogether. 
 I may as well shortly state the Acts of Parliament relative to the subject. The first Act 
 was the 10th of Charles I., section 3, chap. 1, the object of which was merely to render 
 bishops to whom bequests were left compellable to execute trusts ; but as it was limited to 
 a special purpose, it did not afi'ect the cases \yith which we have to deal. The first general 
 Act was passed in 1763, 3rd George III., chap. 18. It required a return of all endowments 
 to he made to the bishops and Houses of Parliament, and also it required the executors to 
 advertise such endowments three times in the Gazette. This ensured a certain amount of 
 publicity; still there was no public body to control abuses. It was in 1 764 that a committee 
 was appointed by the Irish House of Lords, with power to inquire and examine into charities; 
 it had also power to send for persons, papers, and records, and that committee continued 
 permanently sitting until the Act of Union, IS GO. I presume there are records of its 
 proceedings in the proper office, but we have none of them in our office ; nor do I exactly 
 know how they could be obtained. On the Act of Union putting an end, necessarily, to 
 that committee of the House of Lords in IbOO, the 40t]i George III., chap. 75. was passed, 
 by which the first board of charities was established. Its power was to recover all charities 
 withheld, concealed, or misapplied; and in addition, it contained what is technically called, 
 the cj pres power, that is, where it becomes absolutely impracticable to carry out, to the 
 letter, the intention of the donor, to go as near to it as j^ossible. Cases have come to my 
 knowledge where the endowments of schools were inapplicable in the form originally 
 intended. That power I notice because it does not exist in the present board. The 
 minutes of tlie old board are in the office, and we may say the first authentic records of 
 their proceedings. The next Act is 52nd George 111., which consolidated the proceedings 
 of the other statutes relative to charities, and though of some importance, does not require
 
 224 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 The CommissioHcrft 
 of Charitnhle 
 Donations and 
 
 for Ireland. 
 H. M'Donnell, Es(i. 
 
 any special notice. It was on the 1st of June, 1845, the present board came into opera- 
 tion, nniler tlic Ttli and 8th Vic., ch.ip. 97. '1 he present board diflVrs from the old one, ia 
 being formed of tlio several religious denominations. It is a mixed board, and therefon; 
 it was really the first public body tliat had been made available generally for all sects, for 
 the realization of endowments or tlie rectification of abuses. Its powers arc very shortly 
 told. The principal is contained in the 12tli section, whicli empowers the board to sue for 
 all donations, bequests, &c , wliich sludl be " withheld, concealed, or misapplied," and shall 
 apply the same according to the intention of tlie donors. Tliero is a special provision in 
 one section enabling them to talvc endowments for lloman Catholic ministers. So that 
 mixed powers are given to the present l>oard. 
 
 23172. These powers are defective, in consequence of tlie jurisdiction of the board not 
 coming into existence except where cliarities have been actually misa[)plied ? — 'i'liat jirecisely 
 brings me to the second ground on which I should explain why so many donations have not 
 been rightly applied, namely, that legislation, coming so late as it did, conijjaratively, in the 
 history of charities and endowments, has also been defective. The great defect in the power 
 of thepresent board, is, plainly, that it begins at the wrong end. 'i'he board lias no power, 
 whatever, to interfere, until after the donation has been " withheld, concealed, or misap- 
 plied," and cannot take ]n-ecautions to prevent its being so; and no matter how near it 
 verges on any one of those contingencies, or what good moral grounds the board has for 
 believing that it is about to be misapplied, the board cannot interfere to prevent it. That 
 was decided in the important case of the Commissioners against Archhold, in IS49, where 
 there was a large income of £GO0 a-year, and it was contended then that the act did not 
 apply to cases of the kind, and that the Commissioners had no right to interfere. That 
 case settled the extent of the powers of the board ; and 1 should mention as the result, 
 that the charity is not yet in operation. Another general defect is the insufficient nature 
 of the clause in the act, delining the pjowcrs of the Commissioners. A great deal of 
 the time and labour of the Commissioners is taken up in discussing whether the parti- 
 cular cases of complaint brought before them, fall within the limits of their powers or not. 
 I may mention a case, already sent by the Commissioners to the board, a very singidar one, 
 namelv, a small endowment by Thomas KnoUes, for a school at Oatlands, county of Cork, in 
 which the schoolhouse and lauds were taken possession of by the master, and overheld; 
 but on considering the case, the lioard did not think tliey were called on to interfere. The 
 Act of Parliament, in point of fact, is not usually acted on, excejjt a complaint is made by 
 some parties supposed to bo especially interested. 
 
 23173. Chairman. — In that case the complaint was made by Jlr Knolles^ — It was; 
 but the board did not consider the case came within the operation of the Act. They did not 
 think they were called on to interfere. I merely mention this to show that there are many 
 distinctions in practice as to what cases fall within that section, and what cases are excluded 
 from it. There is no distinction in point of law and jjiactice between the meaning of the 
 words '-donation" and "bequest," because donations and be(]ucsts are treated exactly as 
 the same in effect. The difficulty is, whether the entire case comes within the jurisdiction 
 of the particular words in the section. For instance, a case litigated in the Court of 
 Chancery, where the right of the charity is in dis]mtc, is supposed not to fall within that 
 section. The board consider they are not to interfere to maintain the litigation on behalf 
 of the charity ; because it is not to be presumed it will be nii,sa]iplied. 
 
 23174. The general dilhculties enumerated arise out of the mode in which the powers 
 of tlie board are stated in the Act of Tarliament ; but are there any other special diffi- 
 culties which arise out of the mode of conducting the business of the board ? — Not from 
 the manner of conducting the business, but rather from the omission of efficient assistance 
 in the ])rovisions of the Act of Parliament. We can get extracts from wills, containing all 
 cliariiablo (mdowments, including those for schools; and we get a copy of the GazMe, 
 containing the advertisements of the executors ; but these are of no great use in preventing 
 misapplications, because we have no jiowcr to interfere, excejit in a certain contingency. 
 However, assuming that further powers were to bo given to the board, a suggestion was 
 made some time ago by Dr. Hancock, which a[)pears to me to be most valuable — naiiicl}'. 
 that the machinery of the Legacy and Succession Duties Office furnishes at once a ready 
 means of getting a return of the sums which had bi-en realized out of ]n-oi)ertv, and which 
 was chargeable with endowments. That information would, no doubt, be valuiiblo ; but its 
 value would depend u])on the board getting the power of interfering, either by charging 
 the ])arties into whose hands funds came, or seeing that they were about pvittiii" the trust 
 into operation ; I refer to interference by mere letters or inquiry, because we find from 
 practice that h.alf the money recovered by tlic board is got not by legal proceeding's at 
 all, but simply by the ])rcssure ]>ut on ])arties knowing that a public board has cognizance 
 of the case, ami is in commnnication about it. They then come and settle, or compromise, 
 or pay the withheld sums. 
 
 2317''. Would it be in accordance with the practice of your board to write to trustees 
 wlio had funds vested in them for charitable ])ur])oses, ;isking what progress lias been made 
 tow.ards making them available'-'— Not unless more than a rea.sonablo time had elapsed 
 to allow of tlic application, or unless complaints were made that tlic charity was not 
 applied. In these cases it would be construed into a withheld endowment. 
 
 23 170. Then you would not take such a step .as that until considerable delay had arisen ? 
 
 Such delay as could be reasonably construed into ;i deliberate withholding of the trust. 
 
 23177. The board have power to institute; legal proceedings: in what stage does that 
 arieo ? — With regard to that there is an important defect in tlic Act of Parliament Wo
 
 lltp ('omiiii-isiftnei'* 
 '/' C/inrifahie 
 
 EVIDENCE. 225 
 
 often receive notice from the Court of Chancery and from the Incumbered Estates Court, Diulin 
 
 inforininsi' us that an order has been made — for instance, by tlic Lord Chancellor — to take an 
 account of tlic administration of the assets of an estat(!, and that several charities were con- 
 cerned in the suit, in tlio same way, in tlie distrilmlion of funds from a sale in tlic Incumljorcd Donutium nml 
 Estates Court, a charity a])])ears to liavc a claim on the estate. Well, if the interest or annual i^'l'!"!"'"/ 
 
 payments of tlie cliarity Jiave been paid u|) from time to time regularly, and tiiere is no . '' " "" ' 
 reason, therefore, to call it a witldield charity, the board have not tlie bliglite.st power to 
 interfere at that stage. The injury then is tliis, that there is no clause enabling the board 
 to interpose in pending legal proceedings affecting cliaritics, so as to secure the adjudi- 
 cation of the ])roper amount, and make it incundjont on the court to inquire carefully 
 into the circumstances connected with the cliarity, and probe them out ; tlie charity under 
 present circumstances may lie passed by. 
 
 23178. Dr. Andrews. — Do you think if tlie Incumbered Instates Court did not set out the 
 trust in the schedule tliat that would be held to be a misapplied tru.st ? — That subject has 
 been jjartly considered by tlie board, and I do not think they have arrived at that conclusion. 
 
 '2317D. l!ev. Dr. Grai'cs. — Do you invariably receive notice from the Incumbered 
 Estates Court as to the proceedings taken with reference to properties charged ? — It is 
 only in case tliorc is a dilliculty on the subject; and whenever, therefore, it is desirable 
 that the right of the charity should be maintained by some public body whicli the Com- , 
 missioner considers responsible. 1 conjecture, when the Commissioners see no claim made 
 by the ])oard, tliey assume it is not intended to be made. There was a recent case of this 
 description wiiicli occurred in the Court of Chancery — the donation of Mr. M'JS'ally of £10 
 a-year for a school at Kells. The otlier case was Newman v. Newman, in whicli a decree was 
 pronounced in 184(). There were tlien hardly any arrears of the annuity ; and there was 
 a decree asccrtuiiiing the diiferent rights of the parties ; and the debts that were tlien put 
 forward were nearly all i)aid ; but there were large arrears on foot of the charity, no 
 payment having been made since 184G, which jdainly rendered it liable to be construed 
 into a withheld charity. At present the case is before the board, with instructions to 
 their solicitor to lay a case before the Attorney-General, as to wdiether they can take 
 advantage of the old suit in any way, or wdiether it is necessary to institute a fresh suit ; 
 and in case it is necessary to institute a fresh suit, it exactly illustrates the fact I have 
 suggested of tlio want of power. There was also a sum of £-")0 realized in Dalton's charity, 
 in the Incumbered Estates Court ; but the board refused to accept it, considering they 
 were not bound to do so — in fact, that they were not at liberty to take it. 
 
 23180. What weie the grounds of their refusal? — Under the Act they cannot take on 
 themselves to administer sums of money tliat are voluntarily offered to them as donations 
 or endowments ; it would be advisable if tliey had power to accept those sums ; and they 
 have, in tlie course of the last five years, been obliged to decline about £39,000, which was 
 offered to them ; of course a great many of these sums did not constitue endowments for 
 schools. 
 
 23181. Dr. Andrews. — As I understand you, they declined these sums becau.-^e by 
 receiving them, they would have made themselves personally responsible? — Precisely. 
 
 23182. l!ev. Dr. Grave.^. — Yet, an individual liaving money to leave for charitable pur- 
 poses, would rather entrust it to tlie management of a board than to private individuals? 
 — I ])laiuly tiiiiik, tlie board should have a discretionary power to take all tliose sums, and 
 then to see they were placed in safe hands to administer. 
 
 231 S3. Dr. Andrews. — The parties who oftered the £39,000 considered it right that the 
 money should be lodged with the board, if it could be done ? — Yes; I may mention one 
 case which illustrates wdiat I mean very well : Thomas Elannery left £20 a-ycar for a school 
 at Watcrford ; a gentleman named Greene, became the trustee, and on his death his widow 
 became the e.\ecutrix, and being ati.xious to get rid of it, offered it to the board to take 
 charge of this trust ; they conceived they should not do so ; the £20 a-year has since 
 fidlen into arrear, and the estate has been brought into Chancery ; the blaster has recently 
 brought the matter before the Board of Bequests, and what the result of this delay will be 
 I do not yet know. 
 
 23184. llev. Dr. Graves. — Have they any power to obtain information by compulsory 
 methods, as to tlie proceedings adopted with reference to charitable funds':' — None. We 
 have to depend on the voluntary ini'ormation that we can get ; and it frequently happens 
 that inquiries, with respect to bequests, are, therefore, not answered. .Some cases were 
 brought by the Commissioners before the board, which I find had been inquired into by 
 the board, but they seemed to have got no satisfactory answer. There was a case of Joltiison, 
 in which the money was distributed in the Incumbered Estates Court; and with every 
 effort I could make, in order that time might not lapse, I could not get satisfactory 
 informatiou before the day limited for the distribution of the money. In the case of the 
 Kells school, we endeavoured to get information for a long time, but without effect. Y'our 
 Commission examined the gentleman who could give information on the subject ; and since 
 that ho has given us the fullest possible information ; and I rather think, from extracts 
 wdiich are in my possession, that the same powers you possess are granted by the English 
 Act to the English Board of Charities. 
 
 23185. We had the power of obtaining the information. — The powers required by our 
 board need not bo large, but there should be some kind of a compulsorj' power vested in 
 them to obtain information. 
 
 23180. lias the Board of Donations and Bequests the power of interceding -where 
 a difference of opinion has arisen between trustees, for the purpose of puttino; them into 
 Vol. II. 2 G
 
 226 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Commissioners 
 of Charitable 
 I)onations and 
 
 Bequests 
 for Ireland. 
 H. M'DonncU, Esq. 
 
 action? — There is no such power; and some of the charities arc in ahcyanco for some 
 years in consequence. The English Act contains a power on this subject which is very 
 important. We have been very frequently apphed to by trustees for advice, who were 
 anxious to deal bona fide with the money which had come into their hands, but who felt the 
 difficulty of construing the will, or uncertain as to what would be the best method of carrying 
 out the testator's intention. They have applied to the board under such circumstances, for 
 their assistance, and were willing to be guided by them. The board never feels authorized to 
 give such advice officially ; because if they did, it would, probably, bo followed, and yet 
 the trustees would not be in the least indemnified if they took a wrong course. 
 
 23187. As matters stand, must trustees now desiring to have differences of opinion 
 settled, or to obtain advice, go into the Court of Chancery, to have a scheme proposed by 
 the Lord Chancellor or the Master ? — I do not see any other way. 
 
 23188. The power of the appointment of trustees would be a proper tiling to vest in 
 this board. — Yes ; a discretionary power of appointing new trustees where a vacancy 
 occurs. 
 
 23189. Dr. Andrews. — That is at present done by the Court of Chancery It might be 
 
 vested in the board, to the saving of great expense. 
 
 23190. Suppose the trustees of a school desired to co-operate with the Commissioners of 
 Charitable Donations and Bequest, for the purpose of varying trusts or investments, selling 
 property, or doing acts which would contribute to the efficiency of the charity ; have the 
 Commissioners any power of that kind ? — With i-egard to varying trusts, that is a different 
 matter. 
 
 23191. Varying the investments? — There are no powers whatever of this description 
 conferred on the board. There is, I should say, a singular omission of power for the effi- 
 cient management of property in their own hands, and still more for aiding trustees in the 
 management of their trust property — such as proper powers of sale, of purchase, and of 
 leasing. There is an Act for exchange, the 2nd Geo. IV., cap. 92, whicli is not specially 
 applicable to this board ; but, in my opinion, it is extremely cumbrous and almost useless. 
 As an instance of some of the practical inconvenience the board sometimes experiences in 
 this respect, I may mention, that in the Ralph ]\Iacklin's School case, they bought the 
 premises in Stephen-street, in 1828, from the Ordnance, for about £700, and the ground 
 being v.'auted back by the Board of Ordnance, in 1J54, for purposes connected with the* 
 war pressure, they agreed with the trustees to repurchase, for £1,350, the same premises; 
 the Ordnance appeared to have compulsory powers of purchase, as many of the public 
 boards have. The board felt great difficulty about their power, and as to the propriety 
 of assenting to the sale, or being parties to it at all ; and the result was that the agreement 
 with the trustees having been made in November, 1654, the entire transaction was not 
 concluded by the board until 1855 ; but in the meantime the e.xigeucy of the jnibUc service 
 required possession, the Ordnance got the premises, and lodged the money for the trustees, 
 or made some temporary arrangement before the deed was executed by our board. 
 
 23192. Kev. Dr. Graves. — Are powers of the nature you refer to possessed by the 
 Charity Commissioners in England? — Far more extensively. Their first Act was the 16th 
 and 17th Vic, cap. 137, and every session since that there have been one or two passed 
 enlarging their powers very much. At the same time, the Commissioners will not under- 
 stand me as suggesting at all that any thing like the same powers should be given to our 
 board. What i would suggest is, their being more particularly aided in carrying out what 
 they are already competent to do. 1 do not feel that because certain powers might 
 possibly be proper in England, it would, therefore, be proper to extend them here. I 
 think I might refer the Commissioners to some evidence given by the Master of the llolls 
 before the Mortmain Committee on this subject. 
 
 23193. Dr. Andrews. — Have you a copy of it? — No. 
 
 23194. llev. Dr. Graves. — Perhaps you would be so good as to furnish the secretary 
 with a copy. — I shall liave an extract made, and furnish it to him. 
 
 231!I5. Canyon give the Connnissioners any idea of the number of cases of school 
 endowments, and tlie amount of tlie funds, for educational pur])oses, now luidcr your 
 board? — 1 have already made a return to the Commissioners of the number we have funds 
 for, and at the time that return was made I think tiie number was forty-foin-. At present 
 we have 296 cases in which we have funds, out of which forty-four are connected with 
 schools; but t should add the number with which we are concerned is considerably larger, 
 and tlie number of those in wliicli wc still retain tlie funds docs not afford tlie slightest 
 test T)f the number in which funds have been recovered, or the number tliat has been under 
 the management of the board ; because tlie principle is merely to got tlie money and give it 
 into tlie right hand, and very frequently it never passes at all through the hands of tlie 
 ])oard. If an annuity fell into arrear, for five, six, or ten years, and its arrears were received 
 Ijy tlie board, it docs not follow that the Ijoard would continue to receive the annuity, for 
 very often tlie trustees do that themselves. I should mention there arc many cases where 
 the money is recovered through the instrumentality of tlie board, but not paid directly to it. 
 
 23196. There have been cases before us, where jiortions of land were granted as sites 
 for sciiool purposes, and these sites have been sold under the Incumbered Estates Court. 
 I believe cases of that kind have been referred to the Clare-street Commissioners : ought 
 they to be referred to tlic Connnissioners of Donations and Bequests? — Where land had 
 been diverted from its jnirpo.se ? 
 
 23197. Sujjpose laiuls left, containing on them school sites, and that they were sold in 
 the Incumbered Estates Court. — I have already explained that our jurisdiction docs not
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 22T 
 
 arise, unless at the time we get notice of it, the endowment has been already withheld, or 
 the fund misapplied. AVo would have no riglit to interfere before tliat period. 
 
 23198. But supposing it has been not only withheld, but the site actually sold. — Then 
 it is probably too late to interfere. 
 
 23199. There is then no precautionary power to interfere. — Not that I am aware of 
 There ought to bo notice given both by the Court of Chancery and the Incumbered Estates 
 Court, whenever any endowment appears in a settlement, or grants of lands that arc 
 about to 1)0 sold. At the samo time, these notices might at present be useless, because it 
 does not follow tliat the board could interpose. I think it is worth while mentioning the 
 effect, in a great number of cases, whicli a more official correspondence has, showing men 
 that they are watched, and tliat they will be pressed, quite independent of the legal 
 proceedings ; and, therefore, an early official interposition would be most serviceable to 
 anticipate and prevent misapplications. 
 
 23200. Tliat is precisely the kind of interposition you are not empowered to make. — Yes. 
 
 23201. Have you any register of donations? — We have none of donations not made by 
 will. 
 
 23202. Is there any of endowments for school sites, for Avhich money was granted out 
 of the Lord Lieutenant's Fund ? — There is no possible way that endowments by deed 
 can be shown unless by extracts from the registry, which are seldom satisfactory. The 
 registry, according to the modern habit, simply states, the conveyance from A to B upon 
 the trusts therein specified. 
 
 23203. Then there is a very great chance of the loss of school endowments. — Much 
 greater than in the case of bequests. The very advertisement which the executor is com- 
 pelled to make of the bequest, gives some kind of local publication to the matter. At the 
 same time, there ought to bo some better medium than the Gazette, which, it has been 
 said, is a place to keep a secret. The bequest of such a sum as £3,000, for the Kells 
 school, remaining unnoticed in the neighbourhood of Kells for so many years, shows that 
 the neighbourhood was most profoundly ignorant of it. 
 
 23204. Dr. Andreius. — You say the Gazette does not afford sufficient means of publica- 
 tion ; would you suggest any other kind of publication ? — I think it would be a sufficient 
 publication for certain purposes ; but I think there should be printed lists forwarded 
 occasionally to the various localities. A machinery of that kind would be very inexpensive 
 and most cffectua! ; because if it was once generally known that a certain sum of money 
 was left for a charitable purpose, the endowment would never be allowed to lapse. 
 
 23205. You think the Gazette is sufficient for official purposes, but you would recom- 
 mend a local advertisement for local purposes. — Precisely. The board miglit occasionally, 
 at the end of the year, advertise the list of donations and bequests applicable to each 
 locality. If it was done once a-year the expense would be very triffing, and would almost 
 prevent the abuses to which bequests are now subject. 
 
 23206. Chairman. — The Commissioners are obliged to you, Mr. M'Donnell, for the 
 information you have given them. 
 
 Ddblin. 
 
 77/*' Cfunustiioni-jx 
 i>J' C/iai itablc 
 JJ(i7iatioTiH and 
 
 Bequests 
 fur Ireland. 
 
 II. M'Donnell, Es(i. 
 
 Vol. II. 
 
 2G2
 
 228 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, lEELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 jx-BLi.N. ' Dublin, May 31, 185G. 
 
 Present : — Rev. Dr. Graves, Chairman ; Dr. Andrews, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 Incurjioratnl Sucieli INCORPORATED SOCIETY IN DuBLlN, FOR PROMOTING ENGLISH ProTESTANT SchOOLS IN 
 in Dublin for IRELAND— (COlltinUed). 
 
 Protestant Sciiuolt in 23207. Secretary. — The first business to be brought before the notice of the Conimis- 
 
 //■f/««./— coiitinue.l. gjQj^gj.g ^o-day, is some evidence that was given at the last court, with regard to the 
 
 EviMpnce^'^" Incorporated Society ; and some correspondence whicli lias been addressed with regard to 
 
 that evidence to the Commissioners. This is the evidence of the Rev. Air. Abbott, taken 
 
 before the Commissioners at their court held in Dublin on the 22nd December, 1855 (see 
 
 Evidence, 21473). 
 
 23208. The following letters were received by the Commissioners from the Rev. Mr. 
 
 Abbott :— 
 
 " 6, Upper ^Fount-street, December 24, 1855. 
 
 " Dear Sir. I wish to sa}- a few words in ex])lanation of iny examination before the 
 
 Commissioners on last Saturday, and also to put into their hands some written evidence 
 relative to the Incorporated Society. I would also request that if the secretary or land 
 agent are re-examined I may get notice to attend to confirm or explain any portion of my 
 evidence. 
 
 " I am, dear Sir, your faithful servant, 
 " W. N. Hancock, Esq." ""E. S. Abbott. 
 
 "5th February, 1851. 
 
 " 5Iy dear Ardill, — I have to request that yon will officially read this note at the 
 Incorporated Society's monthly board, this day, as it contains my reasons for now retiring 
 from the Society : — 
 
 " The Rev. Messrs. George Blacker, J. W. Stubbs. and E. S. Abbott, were appointed 
 auditors of Mr. Pidgeon s (the land agent's) accounts in 1849 ; Mr. G. Blacker on that 
 occasion alone audited the accounts and signed them, Messrs. Stubbs and Abbott not 
 having been summoned; Mr. Abbott afterwards asked Air. Pidgeon, on a board day, if he 
 was satisfied with only one auditor having examined his accounts and passed them; he said 
 he was jjerfectly so. 
 
 '•■ In 1850 the same parties were nominated as auditors, and Messrs. Stubbs and Abbott 
 drew up a report, the substance of which was that the accounts were generally correct ; 
 but, expressing an opinion that the arrears of rent-charge were permitted to accumulate 
 far beyond what ought to be allowed, in some instances to more than ten years; and 
 disallowing five per cent, charged for the receipt of the purchase money of the Ranelagh 
 institution schoolhouse : this item was £25 on the first payment of i'500, and would, if 
 passed, have sanctioned a charge of £150 on the entire .sum, £3.000. The report also 
 struck off £20 charged for furnishing his accounts. Afterwards Air. Stubbs informed Mr. 
 Abbott that he had given permission to Air. Pidgeon to draw up fresh accounts, omitting 
 these overcharges, which was done, though Air. Abbott thought the original accounts 
 should have been signed by the auditors, striking out the ovei-charges. However these 
 corrected accounts were subsequently signed by the three auditors. 
 
 " But at a board since held an allowance of £20 per annum was voted to Air. Pidgeon, 
 in place of the £20 struck off by tl^o auditors, as an unjustifiable charge, and this was done 
 late in the day, in the absence of two of the auditors ; and when. Air. Abbott understands, 
 there were but four members present, and without previous notice: Air, Abbott, one of the 
 auditors, having attended at that board, but was not apprized of it or asked to remain to 
 discuss it, it is clear that any sum might have been voted away with equal justice. Air. 
 Abbott respectfully ]n-ot(>sts against this mode of conducting business, as entirely irregular; 
 and though he conceives that Air. Pidgeon should hv ]);iid as highly as any other resjtectable 
 agent, he is quite clear that ho ought not to be paid higher by trustees of ]>ublic ]iroperty. 
 Air. Abbott has inquired from some of the most respectable agents in the city, who state 
 that such charges as those disallowed by the auditors are never made by them. In making 
 these observations Air. Abbott does not wish to be understood as for a moment doubting 
 the integrity of or correctness of Air. Pidgeon or any otiier gentleman connected with the 
 board, but as he has the misfortune to differ from them on points which he conceives 
 weighty, he declines the honour of being any longer a mend)cr of the Inciu-porated Society. 
 
 " i;. S. AUBOTT." 
 
 23209. The next connnunication received with regard to this matter is from Air. Pidgeon, 
 dated 31st Dccendjer, 1855. 
 
 "55, Aungierstreet, 31st December, 1855. 
 " Sin, — I request you will lay the accompanying statement before the Endowed Schools 
 Coniraissioners. 
 
 " I have the honour to be, Sir, your faithful servant, 
 
 " W. Pidgeon. 
 " Dr. Ilancock, &c., &c." 
 
 " I have read over the evidence given by the Rev. E. S. Abbott, before the Endowed 
 Schools Commissioners, on the 22nd of December, 1855, as rejiorted in Saunders News-
 
 EVIDENCE. 229 
 
 Letter of 24th December, 1855 ; and as it appears from that statement that Mr. Abbott has Didi.in. 
 
 fallen into very j,n-avo mistakes, witli wliich he has connected my name, I desire to make — -, . 
 
 tlie followin.c;' e.\[)]anation, and to detail exactly the circumstances to which Mr. Aljbott '',',',' '/^Jw/w.Vor'''^ 
 
 has rcfern'd. i-ntnioiiiiy ICmjIis/i 
 
 " Mr. Abbott is reported to have said that I " claimed a sum of £250 as per centajre on ^'"''' ■<'''"' -^'/cio/s m 
 
 • ■ .-1 • 1 <j J I't'ltJ lt(t 
 
 an immediate payment of ±5,000 to the Society." 1 now tleclaro that no such claim was „ 
 
 ever made by mc. Kvi.knce. 
 
 " The only facts on which Mr. Abbott could have grounded such a statement are the 
 following : — 
 
 " In the year 1850 1 received for the Society a sam of £1,500, ])art of a bequest left to 
 it by a gentleman in Scotland. On receiving this montsy I invested it, under the direction 
 of the hoard, in government stock, in the name of tlie Society. I made no charge for per 
 centagc on the receipt of this money, although fairly entitled to it — perhaps were it not 
 for my exertions the Society would never have recovered this sum. I beg herewith to 
 transmit a copy of a minute made by t!ie committee of fifteen on tliis subject. If I had asked 
 for the ordinary j)er centage on this sum I am certain it would have beeri given. The 
 committee deemed mo entitled to it ; but, I believe, the matter afterwards escaped the 
 recollection of tlie board, and I was satisfied at receiving my travelling e.\pciises only, which 
 the committee ordered to ine. 
 
 " In the year 1850 I also received a sum of £500, on account of the purchase of certain 
 premises required for railway purposes ; and on the following day I invested it, nnder the 
 direction of the board, in tliree per cent, consols, in the name of the Society. On furnishing 
 my accounts I charged five per cent, on this receipt, having incurred considerable exjiense 
 in travelling, and much additional trouble during the negotiations witli the railway company. 
 Mr. Abbott objected to this charge ; the other auditors were of opinion that if that charge 
 were not allowed I should have been reimbursed my travelling expenses, for which I had 
 made no charge. I immediately struck out the item from my account on the objection 
 being raised. 
 
 "The second statement of Mv. Abbott is in these words, "I also struck off £20 per 
 year to Jlr. Pidgoon for furnishing his yearly account ; I have since hoard that he was 
 remunerated for that in some other way." In reference to these assertions 1 wish to state 
 that former agents were allowed £30 per year for an under agent. On my appointment 
 I thought it would be inipro])er to charge this sum for an under agent, when, in fact, I did 
 not employ one, and that it would be more correct to claim a sum of £20 towards the 
 payment of a clerk, which I did employ, to draw out the voluminous agency accounts 
 furnished annually to tlie society. Mr. Abbott was the only member of the committee of 
 account who ever objected to this charge. On his doing so, I struck it out of the account ; 
 and the question was subsequently brought before a full meeting of the board by a member 
 of the same committee, and they granted me £20 per year towards the payment of an 
 under agent. 1 attended the following meeting of the board, thanked them for the grant, 
 but begged permission to decline accepting it; nor have I received even this allowance since. 
 
 " W. PiDGEON. 
 
 " Dublin, December 31st, 1855." 
 
 23210. The next communication is dated January 2nd, 185G, and is from the Picv. 
 Richard Ardill, enclosing a correspondence between him and the Rev. Mr. Abbott, relative 
 to a statement which appeared in that gentleman's evidence, as reported in the news- 
 papei's. I have referred to the pirinted minutes of evidence taken for the Commissioners, 
 and I find that Mr. Abbott did not make the statement attributed to him, but the contrary. 
 
 23211. [Rev. Mr. Ardill. — If I had been aware that 'Sir. Abbott made use of the 
 expression that my accounts were correct, I would not have troubled him with this com- 
 munication ; but I merely went on the statement contained in the Daily Express and 
 Saunders' News-T.ettcr, which did not. it appears, contain a correct report of his evidence; 
 and, therefore, I took the liberty of writing the letter which has been read.] 
 
 23212. Chairman. — Perhaps the most expedient course would be to withdraw this 
 letter from our notes. 
 
 23213. [Rev. Mr. Abhntt. — I do not wish to withdraw any thing. I would re.spectfiilly 
 request that letters which ajipeared in the papers attacking my evidence should be read 
 first. My letter to the Marquess of Kildare is a refutation of Jlr. Pidgeon's statement, also 
 of Mr. Maunsell's and Jlr. Stubbs'. I would suggest Jlr. Stubbs' letter should be read, 
 then Mr. Pidgcon"s, and then my reply.] 
 
 23214. Secretary. — The letter of Mr. Pidgeon which appeared in the paper is sub- 
 stantially the same as the one addressed to the Commissioners which has been just read. 
 Mr. Abbott addressed the following statement to the Commissioners, which I will now 
 read, together with some of the documents enclosed. 
 
 " To the Most Noble the Marquess of Kildare, &c., &c., &c , Chairman of the Endowed 
 
 Schools Commission. 
 
 " My Lord, — In December last, a very few days after I had the honour of being 
 examined befoi-e the Commissioners on the subject of the Incorporated Society, three 
 letters criticising my evidence appeared in the morning papers; they were respectively- 
 signed by J. W. Stubbs. f.t.c.d., (one of the auditors), W. Pidgeon (the land agent), and 
 the Rev. L. D. Maunsell, with the latter of whom I have not the honour of being in 
 the slightest degree acquainted. The respect due to Her Majesty's Commissioners, and
 
 230 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Incorporated So( 
 
 in Dublin, for 
 
 l>roJiiutinii Enf/I. 
 
 Proteatant Sihov 
 
 Irehmd. 
 
 Documentary 
 Evidence. 
 
 icty 
 sh 
 
 a confidence that a Ijoard over uhicli your lordship presided would grant me an early 
 opportunit}' (which I immediately souglit for) of proving in open court the trutlifulncss 
 of my evidence restrained me repl^'ing to these inijn-opcr productions, of wliich 1 cnclo.se 
 copies; but that hope being indefinitely postponed, I now respectfully beg that your 
 lordship will receive this statement as an addition to my evidence ; and I am prepared to 
 oive to it whatever weight an oath may be supposed to add to the word of a gentleman. 
 
 " Before I had left the council chamber on the 8th of last Deceniber, immediately after 
 I had given my evidence, two clerks, one of Mr. Ardill's, the secretary, and one of Mr. 
 Pidgeon's (who were sent to watch my evidence), addressing me said — ' Here are the 
 accounts you speak of, and the items you censure are not in them.' My reply was simply, 
 ' These are not the original accounts.' This occurrence induced me to search amongst 
 my papers, and I then discovered two documents, which I immediately placed in the 
 hands of your lordship's secretary, and which, in themselves, are sufficient proofs of the 
 facts I st.^.ted in my evidence, witliout any appeal to weight of character ; from which test, 
 however, I, possibly, might r.ot have shrunk. And, my Lord, permit me to remark, that if 
 Messrs. Stubbs and Ardill had, when examined before the Commissioners, thouglit fit to 
 mention all tlie awkward circumstances connected with the accounts, of which they were 
 equally cognizant with myself, mine would not have been the painful task of pointing to 
 their omissions. 
 
 •' I have particularly designated these letters as improper, for they have an air of 
 intimidation about them, and a tendency (whetlier intentional or otherwise) to check 
 e.xposures of abuses in public bodies. As an illustration : a gentleman called upon me 
 immediately when I had been examined to make some disclosure relative to an annuity 
 in which the Society was concerned, but slirunk back when he saw these attacks upon 
 my evidence. And now, my Lord, as to Mr. Stubbs' letter, he says he is under the 
 impression that the Eev. George Blacker was present at the audit of 1850. But the 
 report signed by Mr. Stubbs and myself proves the contrary. I had not said any thing 
 unkind of Mr. Blacker. I mei'ely stated the fact, that he was not present. If absent 
 from ilhiess it was unavoidable. IS^'or do I tliink that Mr. Stubbs' explanation relative to 
 the plate alters the complexion of that aft'air; for if ilr. Lefroy declined receiving £20 
 per annum for catechising the children of the school in Santry, he acted with unusual 
 liberality, and saved so much to the charity; it was not then the duty of the trustees to 
 beg of him to accept of a service of plate out of the funds : and tliey thus, in my estimation, 
 rendered it a separate and awkward transaction ; and . I retired, first proposing that we 
 should personally subscribe to pay that compliment to Mr. Lefroy, who, for aught I know, 
 mav liave been under the impression that it was a personal presentation, and not from the 
 funds of the cliarity. 
 
 '•As to Mr. Stubbs' opinion, that it requires no moral cour.age to audit a friend's 
 accounts, it appears by a return of the auditors for the last ten years that Mr. Ardill's 
 (the secretary) brother-in-law acted in that capacity, it certainly required some sort of 
 courage to place him in that position, and on his part some courage to act. And, my 
 Lord, though I have no reason to suppose it was done for any particular purpose, yet, I 
 confess, it confirms me in the opinion that the auditing of the Incorporated Societj' should 
 be transi'erred to some other tribunal. The actual visitors of the schools in tlie sumraei's 
 of many years have been the Rev. Messrs. Ardill, George Blacker, and J. Stubbs, senior. 
 The respected name of the Rev. Mr. Porter was mentioned in Mr. Ardill's evidence, but 
 that name does not appear in the returns of the last ten years. It is quite clear, nij' 
 Lord, that a member of tlie committee might have been years without seeing any of the 
 schools, receiving the reports of the perpetual visitors with whatever confidence he might 
 liave in their faithfulness and judgment. As to the letter of Mr. Pidgeon, the land agent, 
 &c., there are no words witliin the bounds of courtesy tliat can express my amazement at his 
 assertions. The report of the auditors, and my official letter to Mr. Ardill on my first 
 retirement (both of which are in the hands of your lordsliip's secretary), will bear me out 
 in this opinion. As to liis boast of not having charged £75 on receiving £ 1,500 for the 
 cliarity, it was probably as well he did not try the experiment — it might have met the 
 fate of his demand of £150 on £3,0ll0, whicli was struck out as unjustifiable in 1850. And 
 liere lies the only error in my evidence tliat I am aware of: 1 was under the imjires- 
 sion that his demand had been 5 per cent, on £5,000, whereas it was but 5 per cent, 
 on £3,000. lie declares the only extra demand he ever made was £25, on receiving 
 £500, totally forgetting to state tliat that sum was but tlie first instalment on the larger 
 one, and would, if allowed, liavo secured the remainder. Tlio £20 per annum for 
 drawing out his accounts was also struck ofl'by tlie auditors, not, as he states, by himself; 
 and the kind consideration of the trustees having, in former days, granted him an annuity 
 of £100 ])er annum, as compensation for the lo.ss of a clcrkshi[) of that value, whidi he 
 necessarily resigned, when api)ointed to the more lucrative office of agent to tlie Society, 
 might, I think, have enabled liim to ])ay a scrivener to cojjy those accounts which he calls 
 voluminous, but wliich, in truth, are insignificant when comjiarcd with those of many land 
 agents who never make such demands. As to Mr. MaunscU's letter, it is but an echo of Mr. 
 Stubbs', except that he thinks it extremely unkind of Mr. Abbott to have spoken of Mr. 
 Blacker's absence from the audit of 1850; whereas Mr. Stubbs is under the imjiression 
 that Mr. Blacker was present. I must repeat, my Lord, tliat this most painful ta.sk lias 
 been forced on me by the silence of the gentlemen who were first examined on these 
 points; but I feel tliat I need make no apology for bringing this statement before one 
 who could only liavc accepted such an office as the Chairmanship of the Endowed Scliools
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 ,93 J 
 
 Oommission in the hope of eliciting the truth, and endeavouring to improve the educa- 
 tional institutions of the country. 
 
 " I have the honour to bo your Lordship's most faitliful servant, 
 
 " E. S. AniiOTT, Iiicunilient of St. Mary's. 
 " St. Mary's Vestry-rooni, Dublin, 
 "February 29, A.D. 185G. 
 
 "P.S My Lord, — I respectfully request that your lordship will be so good as to direct 
 
 the Secretary to acknowledge this statement, and the receipt of the accompanying documents. 
 
 " Your Lordship's most faithful servant, 
 
 "E.S.Abbott." 
 
 23215. This is the copy of the letter of Mr. Stubbs, addressed to Saunders' News-Letter, 
 which Mr. Abbott alludes to. 
 
 " To the Editor of Saunders' News-Letter. 
 
 " Sir, — Having road in your paper of the 24th instant, the evidence of the Rev. Mr. 
 Abbott, before the Ccmmissioners of Endowed Schools, I think it necessary to make some 
 observations on Mr. AI)bott's remarks, particularly as my name is mentioned in his evidence. 
 He states that he was a member of the Incorporated Society, and committee of accounts, 
 but retired two years ago in consequence of some mismanagement which he could not 
 control. It appears, however, by the sequel of his testimony that ho was auditor of the 
 Society's accounts in 1849, 1850, 1851, although in another place he states that his im]n-es- 
 sion was he audited but one sot of accounts. During the period in which he was auditor 
 he states that ho acted perfectly to his own satisfaction, striking several items out of the 
 accounts of which ho disapproved, and thereby exercising a full control. Now, I ask Mr. 
 Abbott, did I not equally with him object to those items of wliich he complains, and frequently 
 entreat him to continue to act with me as auditor, in order to prevent the recurrence of 
 any objectionable item in the expenditure, and did he not persist in resigning, very much 
 in opposition to the wishes of tlic other members of tlie Society ? lie stated that tiie Rev. 
 Mr. Rlacker did not attend on that occasion. My impression is that Mr. Blacker did attend, 
 and that the only time he was absent for several years, was when he was suffering from a 
 severe accident. Tlie avowed reason of JMr. Abbott's retirement from the Society, as stated 
 in his letter, 2nd November, 1853, was on account of general mismanagement, but especially 
 because he was out-voted in reference to a proposal to give a piece of plate to a clergyman, 
 for catecliising the children in the schools of his parish. In this he states the truth, but 
 he has kept back a feature in the case which alters the complexion of it. In the case of 
 every institution under the Incorporated Society, a clergyman is employed at a salary of 
 £20 per annum, to convey religious instruction to the pupils, and to give a weekly super- 
 intendence to the internal management of tlie school; but in our head training school at 
 Santry, no paid catechist has ever been appointed — the rector of the parish having for 
 several years gratuitously and most efficiently discharged those duties, it was but justice 
 that, by a small present of plate, the Society should mark how much they were indebted 
 to that gentleman for his unpaid services. Mr. Abbott states that it requires some moral 
 courage to audit a fi'iend's accounts. I felt no want of moral courage ; and I invite Mr. 
 Abbott to publicly examine the accounts, and point out the items of general mismanage- 
 ment of which he complains. He thinks it an abuse for the same three gentlemen to be 
 regularly visitors at the schools, summer after summer, at tlie expense of the Society. As 
 I never was a member of that deputation, I may say, that though the travelling expenses 
 are paid by the Society, the gentlemen themselves receive no remuneration for their exer- 
 tions; and having been present at some of these examinations, I can safely assert that 
 , no paid inspector could more efficiently and zealously conduct these examinations. I feel 
 no doubt, that had Jlr. Abbott, during the time he was a member of the Society, expressed 
 a desire to devote six weeks of labour to examine the schools in the extended course of 
 mathematics, general history, geogi'aphy, grammar, and Scripture, in which the pupils of 
 our schools are instructed, he would have been appointed a member of the deputation. 
 
 " I am. Sir, your obedient servant, 
 "December, 26, 1855." "John William Stubbs. 
 
 23216. This is Mr. Abbott's reply :— 
 
 " To the Editor of Saunders' News-Letter. 
 
 " Sir, — In your paper of this day there is a letter from Mr. Subb.s, f.t.c.d., commenting 
 on my evidence given before the Endowed Schools Commissioners, relative to the Incorpo- 
 rated Society. 1 confess I think it would have been better taste not to have interfered 
 with evidence, or to have endeavoured to make it degenerate into a personal affair, while 
 the Commission is still in operation, particularly when the grounds of his remarks are 
 founded on a newspaper report, where occasionally and unavoidably errors creep in. I am 
 so convinced of this, and of the imprudence of entering into any jjcrsonal correspondence 
 on the subject, that I will be satisfied with referring tliat gentleman to the Commissioners, 
 and will have much pleasure in meeting him, or any other member or officer of the insti- 
 tution, before them, conscious that I have spoken the truth, and nothing but the truth, and 
 that my sole object is that the large funds of the Society should be laid out for the best 
 interests of the community. 
 
 " I am, Sir, your obedient servant, 
 
 " E. S. Abbott." 
 
 DOBLIN. 
 
 Inrorjiurtitcd Society 
 
 in DahliUifor 
 
 1)1 oniotinij KnijUah 
 
 ProUslunt Schools in 
 
 /ic'i'nid. 
 
 Documentary 
 Evidence;.
 
 233 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 2321 T- Notice of this inquiry has been given to Mr. Stubbs, ]Mr. Pidgeon. and Mr. Ardill, 
 
 and also to Mr. Blacker, whose names are mcniioned. Notice was not given to Mr. Maunsell, 
 
 inDublii, ^foi'''''' because he was not examined before flie Commissioners, and has nothing to say to tlie 
 promvtinq E'nijUsh transaction, e.^cejit by writing a letter to the newspaper. 
 rrotestant Sriiouts ill 23218. Chairman. — The Commissioners have directed tin's correspondence to be read 
 " ■ in full, in order tliat the deliberate statements of the gentlemen who desired to oommuni- 
 
 Dociimentarr ^^^^ information totliem shonld appear before the public in an authentic form ; and if it is 
 
 not necessary to add to tlie .statements contained in these letters, the Commissioners sec 
 no occasion to extend their inquiry into tliis matter any farther; on the otiier hand, if any 
 of the parties present thinlc it right to give any further information, the Commissioners 
 will consider it their duty to receive it. They earnestly desire, however, that gentlemen 
 will abstain from the expression of any opinion which reflects unnecessarih upon the 
 conduct or motives of others. We feel sure that the desire of all persons we l;ave com- 
 municated with as to this matter, has been to secure an honest and faithfid administration 
 of the affairs of the charity, and we tru.st that in any thing which yet remains to be laid 
 before us, this feeling alone will be manifested. 
 
 23219. [Rev. E. S. Abbott. — I hope there is no censure implied in your rcmari;s. I have 
 abstained from doing so, as much as I could, in my correspondence.] 
 
 23220. Chairman. — I am far from wishing to imply censure on any person. 
 
 Iter. JolinW. Stubbs. Rev. John W. Stubbs, f.t.c.d., sworn and examined. 
 
 23221. Chairman. — Do you wish to offer any further statement or explanation? — I 
 merely wish to offer an explanation of part of my letter, which Mr. Abbott seems to have 
 niisunderstopd. I stated my impression that Mr. Blacker attended the audit of the accounts 
 in 1849, and my reason for doing so was this: when I wrote tliat letter Mr. Blacker was in 
 the room with me, and Mr. Blacker told me that he believed he was present at that time, 
 and he brought things to my memory whicli made me believe that lie was present. In fact 
 it was on his autliority I stated he was present. The only other thing I wisli to state is, 
 that I considered Mr. Abbott, during the period I acted with liim, one of the most useful 
 memijers we had. I regret more than I can mention, and so do several of my friends, 
 that Sir. Abbott found it necessaiy to withdraw from the Society, because from his business 
 habits, liis zeal, and his fitness in every way, he could be of the greatest possible use 
 to the Society, and I am exceedingly sorry tliat it has sustained so great a loss ; and, 
 no doubt, others share in the sentiment of rejrret tliat he should have felt it necessary to 
 withdraw from tlie Society. There are several tilings which i\lr. Abbott, I know, objected 
 to, and to which I objected equally with him : but a great many of them have been recti- 
 fied since : and I am sure, had Mr. Abbott been content to act with u.s, tliat he would be 
 satisfied with our progress. We feel his loss very much. 
 
 Wm. ridgcoii. Esq. William Pidgeon, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 232"i2. Tiiat statement which has been read by your Secretary, not being confirmed by 
 my aflidavit, I wish now to say that I am anxious to confirm the truth of all that is in that 
 statement. It differs in some points from Mr. Alibott's statement, but still 1 assert that it 
 is all perfectly true. It refers to a copy of a minute that was made at a general board 
 after tlie matter of £20 a-year that I charged was brought before them. 
 
 2322.5 . [Secretary. — This is an extract from minutes of a general board of the Incoriio- 
 rated Society, dated 6th November, 1850 — " Resolved, that in consequence of additional 
 labour having been imposed upon the agent of the Society, a sum of £20 per annum be 
 allowed to him as part of the salary of an underagent, to commence from tlie year 1849, 
 inclusive." 
 
 23224. This is an extract from minutes of a general board of the Incorjioratcd Society, 
 dated .5th I'V'bruary, 1851 — "On a comparison of the minutes of (itii ISovcmber, 1850, 
 Mr. ridgeon returned tliaiiks for the resolution jiasscd on that day granting him an allow- 
 ance of £20 per annum, as part of the salary of an under-agent, but i-espectl'ully requested 
 permission to decline accepting the same. ' Resolved, that at Mr. Fidgeon's request said 
 resolution be now rescinded.' "] 
 
 23225. Although this money was offered, I did not take it, nor have I received it. 
 23220. Rev. Dr. Graves. — I think it right to r(;miiul you that Mr. Abbott, in liis evidence 
 
 witii regard to this matter, stated as follows : — " Since tliat, I hear, liut I am not certain 
 of it, he has been remunerated for that £20 ayear whicli was struck out. in some other 
 way ; 1 do not state this as a fact, but I hoard it, and of course tlie books will tell." iMr. 
 Abbott did not make his statement absolutely, as of his own knowledge. — Mr. Abbott was 
 l)resent at the board when I declined accejiting it. 
 
 23227. [Rev. E. S. Abbott. — I make it pretty clear, in my letter to Mr. Ardill. tliat the 
 £20 was voted to Mr. I'idgeon at a general board, but late in the day, and when there 
 were only four members remaining. I rather think it was after that 1 sent in my letter of 
 retirement, and that Mr. I'idgeon declined to accept it.] 
 
 23228. \_Secretarij. — Tiie dates correspond with Mr. Abbott's statement: the date of the 
 certificate is July, 1850 ; the minute granting the £20, notwithstanding the auditors having 
 struck it out, is dated (ith of November, 1850: and Mr. Abbott's letter of resignation is 
 dated 5th February, 1851, commenting on the transaction in the terms I read. On 
 the 5th of February, the same day that letter was read, the minute of the 5th I'ebruary
 
 EVIDENCE. 233 
 
 was passed. The letter of Mr. Al)l)ott commences by savino: — " 1 liavo to request that you Uuui.i.v. 
 
 will otficially roail this iioti' at tlie ItK'orporatod Soficty's monthly hoard tlii.-i (lav." Tlicrc- 
 
 fore, a letter directod to Mr. ArdlH, if lie i-eueived it, ounht t(j liavo l)ceii read at tlio hoard, '''Z'7j'mIi' fnr'^ '' 
 and therefore it was most likely read before this niiiiut(( was adopted.] i-rdmniinij ICiiylish 
 
 23'i:29. Cliainnan. — It does not appear to tlie Commissioners that any question arising- /''"''■•'""' •*>'<;/""'/•-• '« 
 out of this matter remains to bo discussed in their presence now ; and they take this ,'' " 
 
 opportunity of statinfj that they arc irlad to witness tlie manifestation of such feelinnjs as '"' " "™"' '''''• 
 those wliich iiave been ex|3ressed by Mr. Stubbs, fully justifyin.i,' what 1 stated nivsclf, that 
 I believe any difierence of ojjinion tliat lias arisen to be only such as miijlit exist anionirst 
 persons cordially a^rcoinu' in tlieir n'cneral views, wliilst they dill'ered astotlie mode in which 
 these views were to lie carried into execution. 
 
 Rev. W. Stubhs further examined. r.cv. \\. Stubbs. 
 
 23"i:{0. I merely wish to dejiose, as to the lengtli of time wbicii Mr. Lefroy has performed 
 the duties of catechist : Mr. Ardill told me that lie was for ten years exerting himself in 
 the most indefatigable manner for the Santry Institution. 
 
 23'23I. 'J'he Commissioners desire to proceed with tiieir investigation into some matters 
 relating to the history and adnn'nistration of the Incorporated Society, especially since the 
 period when it was last re])orted on by the Commissioners of i'lducation Inquiry, whose 
 IJcport was ordered by the House of Commons to be printed in 1825. 
 
 Rev. Richard Ardill sworn and examined. licv. IUcIiurI AvJill. 
 
 23232. Chairman. — The Comnn'ssioners, in tlic prosecution of their inquiries, have 
 observed tiiat very great changes have been made, both as regards the extent and the 
 nature of the operations of the Incorporated Society. The most important changes have 
 been made since the Commissioners of Kducation Inquiry reported in 1^2-3 ; and the Com- 
 missioners think it necessary to the discharge of their duties that they should receive from 
 those who are best acquainted with the proceedings of tJie society some exjilanation and 
 account of the circumstances and -reasons which have induced the board to make these very 
 considerable changes. The Commissioners are aware that a change of system was neces- 
 sarily consequent upon the withdrawal of the large Government grants whicli were annually 
 supplied, in addition to the private funds of the society, to enable it to maintain its largo 
 and numerous establishments throughout the country ; but not only have the operations 
 of the society been reduced in extent, but their nature has been very much altered, 
 and integral parts of their system have been actually abandoned. It is especially with regard 
 to these matters tlint tlie Connnissioners desire to receive information'.'' — I shall be liajipy 
 to give the Connnissioners any information in my power. With regard to the Commission 
 to which you have referred, in 182j, I have no personal knowledge of the proceedings 
 connected with it, not having been a member of the society for many years afterwards ; 
 what knowledge T may possess on the subject is derived from the books of the society, 
 which I have carefully looked into with the view of afl'ording all the information in my 
 power on the subject. From these books I find tliat in tlie year ISIS a letter was received 
 from the then Cliief Secretary of Ireland, recommending the society to diminish, as far as pos- 
 sible, the number of cliildren in its schools ; stating tliat the Government grant would be gra- 
 dually diminished, and recomraending that there should be a proportionate reduction in the 
 number of schools. It was suggested then, or a short time afterwards, that boys who were of a 
 certain heiglit should enlist in the army, anil that the other children should be provided for by 
 apprenticeship, or tliose who had parents, by giving sums of money to tlieir parents, to relieve 
 the society of the charge of them : and by all means in the society's poworto diminish the 
 annual expenditure. 1 find that in the year 1824 another communication was received from 
 the then Secretary to the s.ime effoct, and a diminution of the children under the charge 
 of the society took jilace to the extent of about 400. I find in 1847 a letter from the 
 lligiit Hon. Mr. Lamb, stating that a sum of £12,000 had been granted for the year 182S, 
 and a sum of i'ti.OUO for the year 1829, when the Executive expected that no further Par- 
 liamentary aid would be required by the society, and, in fact, that it would not be 
 granted. Several memorials were presented to the House of Commons and to the Lord 
 Lieutenant, praying tluit this diminution should not be so speedily made, and stating that 
 the society was doing all in its power to provide for the childi'en and to suppress those 
 schools which were in remote districts, and the usefulness of which was not so great as in 
 other parts of Ireland. Tlie diminution of the number of schools and the number of chil- 
 dren gradually continued; and I find that in the session of 1832 tlie last grant whicli was 
 received by the society was a grant exceeding £3,000 ; after that period there was no fur- 
 ther I'-arliamontary grant. I think it well to observe that a letter, a copy of which is pre- 
 served in the minutes of the society, from ilr. Grant, states tliat in the reduction of the 
 several schools throughout Ireland due attention should be liad to the interests of officers 
 of these schools, to the masters and mistresses, the ushers and ushcresses, and of all the 
 officials who had embarked in any of those positions, on the understanding that the appoint- 
 ment was for life, and that they should receive annuities in proportion to their length of 
 service and the position they held under the society. This principle I find was recognized 
 upon different occasions; and when the society was applied to by the Government to send 
 its yearly estimate of the annuities to be granted to these superseded officers, the sum to 
 which these annuities amounted was between £l,l00 aiid £1,200: the secretary received 
 £200 a-year, and these jien^ions continued with little variation down to the year 1S51, when 
 several deaths took place, and the annuities now amouut to £(iOO a-vear, with an additional 
 
 Vol. II. "2 H
 
 031 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DcBus. cTiarge for six or eight poor women who are ohl charter scholars, and who are maintained at 
 an expense of about i'oO a-vear, so that the expense of the annuities now amounts to £(J50. 
 
 Incorpo^audSocieh, -^y.^.^^ j-ggard to the cliange from the old chartei school system to the preiscnt remodelled sjs- 
 promotinij Englisli tcm, perliaps the Commissioners would wisli me to give wliatevcrinformation 1 am pos&essod of. 
 
 Proiestniii Schools in 23233. If you pleasc? — It was found that the old charter school system did not succeed 
 " "'" ' to the extent that might be reasonably expected. This I attribute almost altogether 
 
 Ker. EicharJ Anlill. ^^ ^jjg exercise of private patronage instead of the course adopted at present : a competitive 
 system, in which merits, and not patronage, are considered, and are the recommendation 
 to the society. The term charter school carried a reproach witli it. though I am aware 
 that persons have risen to great eminence who were educated in these charter schools ; 
 and 1 have letters from persons holding high positions, especially in the colonics, stating 
 that they are indebted to the society for the education they have received, and for their 
 advancement in life ; but I need hardly remark that it requires a moral courage which is, 
 perhaps, not often met with, for a person to acknowledge that he is indebted to a charitable 
 institution for the education which enables him to cope with difficulties and rise to 
 eminence. With the late Mr. Thackeray originated the plan of competitive examination, 
 and the abolition altogether of patronage. There has been no patronage exercised what- 
 ever since my connexion officially vrith the society. The experiment was first tried, on his 
 recommendation, with the institution at Dundalk, which was a female school, but was after- 
 wards changed into a boys' school. It was called the Dundalk institution ; tor the word charter 
 school was to bo discontinued. Mr. Thackeray's plan threw open the endowment to the 
 counties of Down and Louth, the counties from which the society derived the funds 
 which supported the Dundalk institution. This plan, as I observed, admitted tliese coimties 
 to t! e advantages afforded by this institution to boys who had been well recommended by 
 their parish ministers, had a certificate of health, antl were found to be superior answerers at 
 the examinations which were annually held. The experiment was tried at Dundalk, and 
 having succeeded so admirably in that place, the system was introduced elsewhere ; and 
 it now forms the basis of our proceedings. To the day schools of the society are 
 attached both male and female scholarships ; so that children of superior answering, and 
 who had been twelve months in attendance at any of these schools, are eligible to these 
 scholarships, which, I may say, become a provision for life to the successful candidates ; 
 for if, after four years passed in one of these institutions, they are found eligible to the 
 Santry training school, they are left there two or three years longer, and from thence they 
 are sure to get respectable situations in liie. Since my official connexion with the society 
 in the year 1812, there has been one institution added, and seven day schools, without 
 producing any embarrassment to the funds of the society. These schools, of course, give 
 me increased responsibility .and anxiety; but I would be very hajjpy' indeed to be instru- 
 mental in carrying out so useful a measure ; and I may be, perhaps, permitted to say that 
 there is a sum of £1,800 to our credit, which shows that the society is not now in any 
 pecuniary difficulties. 
 
 23234. With n'gard to the class of persons who are enabled to benefit by the instruction 
 conveyed in the scliools now under the management of the Incorporated Society, the Commi.s- 
 sioners notice that there are certain restrictions : in the first instance, the candidates only 
 come up from certain districts, and they must be educated in schools in those districts, 
 managed according to certain principles, that is to say, in these schools the Holy Scriptures 
 must be read every day by every clnld who is able to read. Am I right in stating that 
 these restrictions exist ? — Yes. 
 
 23235. lias any question been ever raised before the governing body of the Incorporated 
 Society as to whetiier these restrictions are in accordance with the terms of the charter, 
 which incorporated the society, and made it the object of the society " to teach the 
 children of the Popish, and other poor natives of our said kingdom, the l'!nglish tongue, 
 and to teach them to read, especially the Holy Scriptures and other good and pious books; 
 and to in.struct them in the principles of the Protestant religion, established in our said 
 kingdom; and to teach them to write, and to instruct them in aritlimetick. and sncii other 
 p^rts of learning as to the said society shall seem meet; and to bring tliem up in virtue 
 and industry, and to cause them to be instructed in husbandry and housewifery, or in 
 trades, or in manufactures, or in such like manual occupations as the said society shall 
 think proper." Has your committee ever discussed the question as to whether the restric- 
 tions, such as I have now mentioned, are in accordance witii the words of tliat charter; 1 
 merely ask as a matter of history ? — I think there are two questions involved. 
 
 23230. I am not asking your opinion with regard to the construction of these words ; 
 but simply asking whether the question has ever been raised to your knowledge in the 
 committee as to their interpretation? — Yes; I remember one of the committee' said he 
 thought it would be better to omit that passage. 
 
 23237. To omit it; you cannot omit a passage in tlie charter? — I mean with reference 
 to the restriction that a bny should regularly attend a school in which the Scrijiturcs are 
 daily read by all tlio cliihiren tliat can read, he suggested the omission of the last sentence; 
 and as regards the districts from whence the boys arc received, they are now received as 
 candidates from tiie districts adjoining the estates that support the institution when they 
 arc to be found ; but it was proposed by a member of the society to throw the privilege 
 more widely open, to e.vtend it more than at present. 
 
 23238. For a long time the affairs of the lncorj)orated Society were carried on under the 
 imjiression that the main object of the soci(>ty was to bring up the children of'l'oman Catliolics 
 in tiie Protestant religion. There can be no question but that this was, ior a veiy long
 
 ]{fv. Kioliiird AriHU. 
 
 EVIDENCE. snr. 
 
 time, tlio recognized object of tlie riicorporated Society ; l)ut wlicn the funds at the DtmLiN. 
 
 disposal of tiio society were very much diminished, it was found tliey were no longer able . ' . 
 
 to receive into their scliools the large numbers of cliihlren furnisiied from the foundling "^ iil"ij"hl'n. fur"^ ^ 
 Iiospital and other similar sources, and tliat thoy could no longer carry on their scliools /iromoiinr/ Jiw/lUi 
 in the manner originally contemplated ; and tlie question was actually raised as to the -'''"''■'•'"''' •^'^j'""/* '"■ 
 admissibility of Protestant cliildren in 1803. It was decided that Protestant children 
 could bo educated in the schools of tlio Incorporated Society? — Yes. 
 
 232.'}9. At present the Commissioners desire to know whether any Uoman Catholic 
 children at all arc ciiucated in tlie Ijoarding scliools of the Incorporated Society? — They 
 are eligible to come forward ; we do not ask any ([uestion. 
 
 23240. That is not my question; I ask arc any Iloman Catholic children educated in 
 your boarding schools? — I am not aware, except in one instance. 1 heard there was one 
 boy in one of the scliools. 
 
 23241. Do you mean in one of the boarding schools? — Yes. 
 23212. Under the I'ormer state of things when lioman Catholic parents offered their 
 
 chihii-en as pupils in the charter schools, they made, previous to the admission of the 
 child, a declaration, stating that they most earnestly entreated that the child might be 
 admitted into the Protestant charter school, and they said, " I do hereby give my full and 
 voluntary consent to his or her being educated in the doctrine and principles of the Pro- 
 testant religion " Is any declaration of the kind now made, or required to be made, by 
 Roman Catliolic parents whoso children are received into the boarding schools? — No such 
 declaration. 
 
 23243. If a Roman Catholic child happened to be educated at one of the Scriptural 
 schools, in connexion with the society, and was trained to stand one of these competitive 
 examiuations, and by good answering entitled himself to admission, would any question be 
 asked with regard to the religion of the parents ? — No question whatever. 
 
 23244. Nor any obligation imposed upon the candidate for admission ? — Nor any obli- 
 gation. There is no question asked as to the religion of the candidates ; if they answer 
 well we receive them, and they are educated as members of the Church. 
 
 23245. In point of fact, you believe that in the boarding schools, as now managed, there 
 are really no Iloman Catholic pupils? — I am not aware, except that I heard that one 
 Roman Catholic was in the school at Diindalk. 
 
 2324G. Is that a child of Roman Catholic parents, but nevertheless a child receiving 
 Protestant instruction and attending Divine worship in a Protestant church every Sunday, 
 and in every respect conforming to the doctrines and discipline of the Protestant Church ? — 
 Yes, in every respect. « 
 
 23247. Now, with regard to Roman Catholic children in the day schools; are you aware 
 of the number of Roman Catholic children in the day schools connected with the society ? — 
 There is a large number of Roman Catholic children attending tiie day schools. 
 
 2324S. Do your returns distinaruish the number? — I tiiink so. 
 
 23249- No general return of that kind has been yet laid before the Commissioners. The 
 Assistant-Commissioners have been directed to make inquiries on the subject when visiting 
 the schools, and from them we shall no doubt bear of it. — I have made a return of the 
 number of children in attendance on the institutions and schools, specifying the founda- 
 tioners, the boarders, the day scholars, and tliose who attend upon the schools to which 
 we gi^'e assistance; I made it out as far as I could. We could not have very exactly 
 stated the number of Roman Catholics who might be attending the day schools. 
 
 23250. It was not called for in our return? — Of course if it was not, I did not give it. 
 
 23251. Could you furnish the Commissioners with such a statement from any of your 
 books that are before us ? 
 
 23252. [Secretary/. — The number of children stated in the report of the deputation of 
 185.;, as attending the day schools, was .'■)39 on the roll, of whom si::ty-eiglit were Roman 
 Catholics.] 
 
 23253. On looking at the will of Dr. Pocockc, formerly Bishop of Ossory, the Com- 
 missioners see that his estate is bequeathed to the Incorporated Society for the founding 
 of a weaving school near Kilkenny, for Papist boys only, to be educated in the Protestant 
 religion. Are the trusts of that will strictly carried out ? — -As regards the Roman Catholics, 
 it is not, because they could not be obtained ; but the same competitive system is carried 
 on tlicrc; as elscwher(\ 
 
 2325 i. Then, in point of fact, in the Pococke Institution there is not a single Roman 
 Catholic foundation boy ? — I am under that impression. 
 
 232-J5. Is there any limitation observed as to the ages of the foundationers received into 
 the Pococke Institution ? — The age at which they are admissible is the same as at the 
 other schools, not nnder eleven, or over sixteen. 
 
 23256. Is it in any respect now an industrial school. Is loom-weaving taught in the 
 Pocockc Institution? — It has been tried, but thi' experiment did not succeed, and the 
 establishment is now altogether an educational one. 
 
 232')". Are any of the pupils apprenticed? — They are not. 
 
 2325S. Is the restriction that they should not have been in any school before of any 
 public legal foundation attended to? — -It is attended to in all our schools. 
 
 23259. Do you take a pupil who has been before in any public endowed school ? — There 
 is a boai-ding school, for instance, AVilson's Hospital, in the county Westmeath, and candi- 
 dates are not admissible from it to the Farra Institution ; a like rule prevails in the other 
 districts. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 n 2
 
 Ii-ehuul. 
 JJev. liic-liar.l Anlill. 
 
 230 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 UiBLi.v. 23260. I read over voiir rules respecting the admission of candidates, for the purpose of 
 
 . . seeino; wliether tlicrc was any express rule exchiding candidates wlio liad been in any 
 
 ' '"hi'Dnhlin.fu'/ "' school oi' public legal foundation. — It is understood. I rather think that tlierc is some printed 
 prinm.uny limdixh j-eguLition on thc subjcct. I know the rule was introduced by ]\Ir. Stubbs. who takes a 
 ProicManiSt-iu<oU in ]j,"p]y jnterest in thc affairs of the Society, that hoys should not bo admitted to come 
 forward as candidates who had been inmates of any hoarding establishment or in any 
 poorhouse. 
 
 23261. What was the ohject of establishing that rule ' — For tlie purpose of allowing a 
 fair competition to the boys who had not such opportunities of instruction. 
 
 232G2. You wished to exclude candidates who had Ijctter opportunities for instruction 
 than others? — For instance, at Wilson's Hospital the boys are kept three or four years, 
 and therehv have a considerable advantage over those who liad been in attendance at 
 thc daily schools ; and it would not be considered fair towards those who attended the 
 dailv sciiools. to give the same advantage to those who had already derived the benefit of 
 another boarding establishment. 
 
 23263. Do I understand you to say that tlie operation of this rule would exclude a boy 
 who came from the workhouse? — It would exclude a boy who came from a workhouse 
 
 school. 
 
 23264. Notwithstanding his poverty and his complying with the other conditions men- 
 tioned in Bisliop Pococke's will? — That was the intention of thc rule; but I am not aware 
 that anv boys have come forward from the workhouse sciiools. 
 
 2326.5. If they did, would tlie rule exclude them? — I do not know jireciscly about that; 
 but 1 know that "the rule would exclude those who came forward, for instance, from Wilson's 
 Hospital ; though 1 am not aware of boys coming from any of the workhouse sciiools. 
 
 2326G. To return to the special case of the I'ococke Institution. It appears that, while it 
 was founded as a school for Iloman Catholic children who should become Protestants, it is 
 now absolutely and exclusively a Protestant institution ? — It is ; but I should observe that 
 one of tlie rules savs, that a boy shall have attended, for twelve months, one of thc Scripture 
 schools in the county or district. 
 
 23267. I am aware of that. — Perhaps I ought also to observe that when thc Society 
 contemplated any change of importance, they always consulted the law officers of the 
 Crown, before making the change, as to its propriety and legality. 
 
 2"?2GS. Could vou turn to any pas.sage in your books from which it would appear that 
 the opinion of eminent counsel was taken with regai'd to Bishop I'ococke's will, and 
 the management of the Pococke Institution? — I am not aware of any such passage; but 
 perhaps it might be ^ound, as the Pococke Institution was established long before my con- 
 nexion with the Society. 
 
 23269. The Commissioners would bo glad if you could find us copies of any opinion that 
 had Leon given by eminent counsel, with regard to the admissibility of persons belonging 
 to a special class, or relating to the changes in the administration of the charity — Do you 
 wish the search to be confined to the Pococke Institution? 
 
 23270. No; with regard to the schools generally. On the other hand, Mr. Ardill, are 
 not ])ortions of the property of the Incorporated Society hold on thc condition that thc 
 schools are to be open exclusively to Protestants. This was the case, especially with regard 
 to the Ranelagh foundation? — I am not aware that such was the case. 
 
 23271. I take a statement to that effect from the Report of tlie Commissioners of 
 Education in Ireland. 1809-12. It is there stated, "And since that period (1S03) all 
 children who appeared to be proper objects have been admitted, without any distinction 
 on account of the religious profession of their parents, excepting only into the two Ranelagh 
 schools of Athlone and Roscommon, which were endowed for thc education of poor Pro- 
 testants only." How is the poverty of the candidates for admission ascertained? — AVe do 
 not ascertain it. 
 
 23272. Do you take any stcjis to intpiire into if? — We send all the clergymen of tlic 
 district notice of the examinations which are about to be held, and invite the children to 
 come forward as candidates for ai'mission ; they are mostly thc children of poor ])aroiits 
 or labourers who present themselves. 
 
 23273. But do you take any means to ascertain the inability of the parents to pay for 
 their education? — We do not. 
 
 23274. It ap|)ears to me that thc charter is very express in stating that the object of 
 the charity is the instruction of the children of the Popish and the other poor natives 
 of this country. Poverty seems to me to be one of the essential conditions? — Poverty, no 
 doubt, was borne in recollection when the patronage system was in operation, but now that 
 the competitive system is in operation it is not looked into. 
 
 23275. The charter mentions that thc children arc to receive instruction in hu.sbandry 
 and liousewifory, or in trades or manufactures, or other manual occupations, as thc Society 
 shall think ])n>])er. I find from thc annual reports of persons who inspected the schools 
 that industrial education w.is given viTy largely : is industrial instruction given now in these 
 schools? — Husbandry is taught in one institution. 
 
 i'3276. Primro.sc Grange? — Yes; it had been taught at Parra, county \\'cstineath. 
 
 23277. But Farra is no longer an agricultural school? — No, it did not succeed, as the 
 y)arcnts of boys did not send their children to bo taught agriculture. We found from thc 
 reports we r(!Ceived that there was a greater facility oC inoviding for hoys by giving them 
 a good Knglish education, so as to (pialify them for clerkships, and schoolmasters, &c. 
 
 23273. Thc Commissioners arc not finding fault with thc mode in which the committee
 
 EVIDENCE. 237 
 
 have exercised tlicir cliKcretion, l)ut- aRl<inj; nii explanation of the eircumstaiiees iimler whicli J)r)ii.iN-. 
 
 these chanires have taken i)hu'e, and an aec<ini)t of the \vav in whicli tlio cliaritv ii< at present , ; ,, . 
 
 earned ou . — It was well that the iarrnint; establislnnent at rarra was (liscontniued, lor no i,! Dublin, fur ' 
 boys came forward to he educated as farmers. pi-unwCni/ E'Kilifh 
 
 '•1\V11\). Was the conduct of tliat scliool attended with consi(ierahh> hiss to th(^ society? ^'''''''''y^''if,l'j''''''' '" 
 — It was some loss, but not very considerable, for tl)e farmin": stock, &c., realized a con- „ ,,. , ,', ,.ii 
 siderahle sum ol money; and the cattle, winch were stall-fed. and sent u\> to Dnhlni, realized 
 a good sunr also. 
 
 ■J3'.'80 Uiit there was loss on it, as an auriculfural specidation ? — 'i'here was loss on it, 
 as a speculation; and that led the society, in a threat measure, to rcdiiupiish the agricultural 
 instruction in it ; and my impression is, that it w-as desirable to do so. 
 
 23281. When it was discontinued was any cpiostion raised upon that part of tlie chart ei- 
 which prescribed instruction of an industrial kind '? — I am not aware of any questioi; having 
 been raised. 
 
 23282. Is any other industrial instruction given in any of the schools, except agricul- 
 tural instruction ? — No; except in the feniah,' schools, where needlework of all sorts m 
 taught. 
 
 23283. Weaving is no longer taught in any of the schools? — Ao longer. 
 
 232S4. Were complaints made respecting the management of the Farra institution, 
 bv parents, who alleged that the time of their children was wasted, in consequence 
 of their being employed in an undue measure U|)on field operations? — I am under the 
 impression that some parents would rather their children were eni])loyed in literary ])ursuits. 
 and on that account the Farra institution was never filled as well as the other schools of 
 the society! but since the agricultural department has been discontiiun d, it has filled 
 remarkably well. 
 
 2328-'). Are the children at Farra at present taught gardening? — They are taught 
 gardening, and those who wish arc taught agriculture, but it is not con^pulsory on them, an 
 formerly. 
 
 2328(>. Dr. AiKlreics. — Were there any complaints made that the agricultural teacher at 
 Farra was not a competent person? — 1 never heard any complaints; 1 never beard him 
 spoken of except in terms of the highest commendation ; and when the society was about 
 to break up that fariuing establishment, one of the first houses in iJublin, the house of 
 Stewart and Kincaid, applied to engage his services, and he refused to give any reply until 
 he knew from the society whether his services wore dispensed with ; and when he was 
 informed the society did not require his services any longer, he was engaged by Lord 
 I'owerscourt, to whom he is giving the utmost satisfaction. 
 
 23287. About what time did he cease to be agricultural teacher in the Farra institution ? 
 — I should think, four or five years ago. 
 
 232S8. Was there no agricultural teacher there since that?— No; the agricultural 
 teaching to wliich 1 allude, was compulsory, that is, half tlie boys were in the field while 
 the other half was in the schoolroom ; but the agricultural instruction since received has 
 been merely voluntary on the part of the pupils, who desire to receive it. 
 
 23289. Could you tell about what time the present literary teacher was appointed? — I 
 think he was appointed about six or seven years ago ; though at Farra there were two 
 masters, the agricultural master and the English master. ^Vhen the agricultural master 
 ■was discontinued, the establishment was handed over to the English master, who has vet 
 possession of it. 
 
 23290. Chairman. — At the time when the Commissioners of I'ducation rej)orted on the 
 Charter Schools, it was customary to charge the masters of the schools for the labour of 
 the children. They were charged at the rate of 1.5s. a-year for each child ; has tliat practice 
 been entirely discontinued, in the case of the Frimrose Grange and Farra institutioriS? — 
 It lias been altngother discontinued. At Primrose Grange it is not compulsory on the 
 children now to learn agriculture, which change took ]ilaco in consequence of the observa- 
 tions made by the parents and friends of the boys, as in the case of the Farra institution. 
 
 23291. Dr. Andreius. — Could you tell how many boys, or what jjroportion of the boys, 
 at Primrose Grange, take advantage of agricultural instruction? — I had a letter from the 
 master last summer (after this order of the Ijoard had been forwarded to him, to the efi'ccr 
 that to learn agriculture was not compulsory on the boys), in which he stated that the bovs 
 had volunteered to go out and labour in the fields, and assist him in getting in Ids cro])S, 
 and tilling his ground. 
 
 23292. Chairman. — Then, as industrial instruction was given up in the schools, with the 
 abandonment of tliat part of the system, is also connected the relinquishment of the practice 
 of apprenticing the pupils? — That has been discontinued altogether. 
 
 23293. There are now no jiupils apprenticed from your schools ? — None. I am reminded 
 that occasionally one is apprenticed from Celbridge Female School, as a servant, but it is a 
 very rare occurrence. Persons do not feel desirous to take servant girls as ap])rentices. 
 
 23294. When a girl is apprenticed as a servant from Celbridge, is a fee given with her? 
 — She receives £l for an outfit. 
 
 23295. But is there no regular ap])rentice fee given with her? — No : but a girl going to 
 a situation from either Celbridge or lloscommon receives £l for clothes, as an outfit; but 
 there is no apprentice fee. 
 
 2329G. Was it usual, in the case of boys being apprenticed, from the Incorporated Society's 
 Schools, to give the ])arties, on completing their term of seven years, a bounty? — It was. 
 23297. Has that practice been discontinued?— It has.
 
 SgH ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DuBLiM. 23298. It was also customary to give marriage portions of £5 apiece, to deserving girls, 
 
 , ; ,, . educated in the Female Boarding Schools ; has that practice been kept up or discontinued? 
 
 Incorporated iiocitti/ t-> ■ , • i 
 
 in Dublin, for ' —Discontinued. 
 promoting Ent/Ush 23299. You mentioned eleven years as tlie minor limit of age for the admission of pupils ? 
 ProtettniuSchooh in _They are not admitted under eleven, 
 
 23300. Are none admitted under eleven ? — No; nor over sLxtecn. 
 Key. Ricbard Ardill. 2330 1 . Then the practice of tlie society is wholly altered in that respect, and it no longer 
 maintains what were called nurseries under the old system, in which infant children are 
 received? — There are none now in existence under the control of the society. 
 
 23302. The society formerly maintained an asylum, in which girls who had been originally 
 educated in the charter schools received a temporary shelter wlien out of employment. 
 Has that asylum been continued ? — Xo. 
 
 23303. Can you mention what circumstances led to the discontinuance of it ? — It was 
 discontinued before my connexion with the society, but, I believe, they found it was an 
 institution subject to great abuse, and it was discontinued on that account. When I spoke 
 of the age at which children are admissible into the schools, I should have stated, perhaps, 
 that the limit of not under eleven, or over sixteen, applies to the boys. In the girls' insti- 
 tutions the age of admission is not under ten, or over fourteen. 
 
 23304. When the great object of the society was the rearing up of the children of 
 Roman Catholic parents in the Protestant religion, it was found necessary for the accom- 
 plishment of that purpose, in many cases, to remove them from the neighbourhood of their 
 parents and friends. They were " transplanted" from j)lace to place ; has that practice 
 been discontinued ? — Oh, yes. I have not known it to exist. 
 
 23305. It appears, then, that several arrangements whicli were usual under the former 
 state of things, and practices whicli existed at the time when this charity was last reported 
 upon, have been discontinued — namely, the practice of giving industrial instruction in the 
 schools — apprenticing the pupils, both boys and girls — charging the masters for the labour 
 of the children — giving bounties to well-conducted apprentices — giving n.arriage portions — 
 the establishment of an asylum of refuge — the maintenance of nurseries — and the custom 
 of transplanting children from place to place, which was attended with considerable 
 expense — all these jjractices have been discontinued ? — They have been all discontinued : 
 they are incompatible with the present competitive system. 
 
 2.i306. Then do you regard that competitive system as the essence of the present work- 
 ing of the charity ? — I do indeed. 
 
 23307. That being the case, the training school at Santry is the culminating point of 
 the system — it is the institution to which all your other arrangements arc but prepara- 
 tory ? — It is ; and the object of the Santry institution is to give such an education as will 
 enable the boys who are taught there to take situations as clerks, but especially as school- 
 masters. 
 
 23308. Especially as schoolmasters ? — Especially as schoolmasters ; and there are many 
 of the schoolmasters in the Incorporated Society's schools who have received their educa- 
 tion at Santry and at the other institutions ; some of them are fit to go out before going 
 to Santry, and being ofiered good situations they accept of them. 
 
 23309. A training school ibr females appears to have existed formerly in Kevin-street ; 
 ■why was it gis'cu up ? — It must have been a long time ago. 
 
 23310. The Commissioners of Irish Education Inquiry, in their Report of 1S25, state: — 
 "In consequence of Mr. Thackeray's suggestion, it was settled, in 1819, that the charter 
 schools of Santry and Kevin-street should be apjn-opriated, the former for the reception 
 of forty males, the latter of twcntj- females, selected from the different schools, in the 
 character of candidate teachers. They were also to contain children as usual, by instructing 
 whom the teachers were to be trained." At the time that llejiort w^as made, the scliool in 
 Kevin-street contained 200 girls, including the candidate teachers ; Kevin-street school 
 was suppressed in 1839 : what led to the .suppression of that institution ? — It was one of 
 the schools which the society was obliged to discontinue in consequence of the withdrawal 
 of the Government support; and I suppose the class of twenty- to which you allude was 
 discontinued at the same time. 
 
 2:i311. In the same Report there is a statement sliowing liow a certain number of boj's 
 admitted into Santry were disposed of: it appeared that out of ninety-five boys, nineteen 
 eloped and three were expelled ; this was after tlie adoption of Mr. Thackeray's suggestion 
 of admitting boys as the reward of merit ; can you exi)lain how it occurred that so many- 
 boys eloped? — lam not aware that it was after Mr. Thackeray's suggestion ; perliaps it 
 was antecedent to it 
 
 23312. This occurred in the year 1825, and Mr. Thackeray's suggestion was of a much 
 earlier date. — Santry was not a competitive institution uutil late years; since my con- 
 nexion with the society. 
 
 2^313. The Commissioners, in tlie Report from wliich 1 am quoting, state : — "As the 
 candidate teachers whom we found at Santry had professedly been selected from all tlie 
 schools for superior merit alone, and may be supposed to be fi-ee from all bias against their 
 former masters, it appeared to us desirable to obtain from them some account oi'the treat- 
 ment they had experienced in the schools from which they iiad i)een taken. These boys 
 gave, on the whole, an account which conlirms our own observations." Can you furnish 
 any explanation of the fact alluded to already — the number of elopements? — I cannot. 
 
 23314. Have you elopements at jjresent in the schools? — None; but just when 1 became 
 secretary, occasionally boys ran away, but it was very rarely the case. 1 asked the board
 
 EVIDENCE. 239 
 
 to pass a resolution that any boy running away, or absenting himself from the precincts of Ucbuw. 
 the scliool without permission, should not aQ;ain be received; and the result has been, that ^ ; „ . 
 
 , 1 .1 • 1 I -ii • J.1 t ) -I'll Jfirornuratetf Snciett/ 
 
 we have now no such tiiinn^ as an elopement, either ni the boys or gu-ls schools. 1,'Vvhiin.for 
 
 23315. At the time that this Report was made, it appeared only aijout one-half of the prmuoHmj Emjlwh 
 pupils received into Santry wore ultimately sent out as masters and ushers, or parish clerks ; -?''«/i>y««<^^^W»w/ir m 
 can vou inform ns what proportion of the pupils educated in Santry are now employed in _ n- , i . in 
 situations oi that kind ? — .\t present tliey are admitted tor three years, and supposing them 
 to remain the full term, twenty or twenty-five go into these situations, but they are, almost 
 in every instance, ])rovided with eligible a])pointments before the termination of the three 
 years : so in no instance; does a ])crson remain a burthen on the society after three years. 
 2.'').3 1 (). Do you keep a registry of the employments in which the pupils who are trained at 
 Santry ultimately engage '' — Yes ; the master keeps such a record ; and the society gives an 
 outfit to the young men (because they are such) of clothes, suitable to the position of life 
 which they are about to hold ; there is £(j appropriated for that purpose. 
 
 23317. Is the cost of maintaining a boy at .Santry considerably greater than his mainten- 
 ance at Farra or the other provisional institutions':' — The dietary is a penny a-day more, 
 and tliere is a small additional allowance; for clothing, as the boys are of greater stature 
 than the boys of the other schools ; at Santry the dietary allowance is 8cZ. per day : at the 
 other institutions. Id., and in the female schools, 5\d. 
 
 23318. The Commissioners of Education Inquiry stated : — " A boy, before liis admission 
 into the Santry school as candidate teacher, will have probably cost from £100 to £120, 
 and his progress there will probably add as much more." Can you state what the mainten- 
 ance now would be for four years ? — The cost is Id. a day for his diet, and £3 for his 
 clothing and washing. 
 
 23319. Then to these charges you must add other incidental expenses? — Yes; medical 
 attendance, the salaries of the masters, and all the other expenses. 
 
 23320. Have you made any estimate of the cost of maintaining a boy at one of the insti- 
 tutions ? — I have not made a precise estimate, but I shall do so if the Commissioners 
 wish it. 
 
 23.321. In this Report 1 have been referring to. it is stated that, on the whole, the cost 
 of the maintenance of a boy at one of the boarding schools of the Incorporated Society in 
 1825, was £ 14 8s. '2d. ; at present 1 should think that the expense is greater ? — -The expense 
 is more. 
 
 23322. Your paying boarders are charged £14 IQs., and that only covers their diet and 
 washing"? — ^Their education, medical attendance, stationery, are afforded by the society out 
 of it, at their own expense, but I should think the cost of each is £100 for the four years, 
 taking into consider.ition all the expenses attendant upon his ])osition. 
 
 23323. What would you estimate the cost of training a boy for three years at Santry ? — 
 I suppose it would be fully as much as four years elsewhere — about £'100. 
 
 23,i24. Then each boy trained at Santry, having been educated in your school for seven 
 years, will have cost the society about £200 ? — Yes. 
 
 23:525. The boys who have duly availed tliemselves of the advantages thus placed within 
 their reach, carry out into the world a stock of information and acquirements which 
 enable them to maintain themselves respectably, and to hold situations in which consider- 
 able intelligence is required? — Some of them go out at £50 and £40 a-year ; I can get 
 none to go out under £30; there are many appointments offered at £20 a-year with a 
 residence, but they would not be accepted. 
 
 23326. Do you think it would be possible to extend the operations of the Santry school 
 so as to train up a greater number of persons receiving an advanced education, but 
 not maintained in your schools for so great a length of time; if, for instance, you were to 
 commence your competition at a later age, and then receive pupils who had obtained 
 elsewhere a certain amoiuit of preliminary information, and train them for a certain 
 number of years in Santry or a similar institution, do you not think you might accomplish 
 more for the education of the country in that way than by means of your present system ? 
 — 1 must say that this plan is now in course of operation ; the old rule was, that out of 
 every four boys educated at one of the other institutions, one of them should, after a com- 
 petitive examination when they were leaving the schools, be eligible for admission to Santry 
 for three j'ears : but it was recommended by an influential member of the deputation that 
 no boy should be sent away to his friends from any of the institutions, but that all who 
 could not otherwise procure situations should, if found good answerers and of good moral 
 conduct, be received into Santry ; this would in some measure meet the view which you 
 have suggested. 
 
 23327. Then Santry, under your present system, would develop itself into a training 
 college ; in fact, a school maintained for the purpose of ti-aining schoolmasters, with a 
 certain number of preparatory institutions scattered throughout the country ? — With this 
 difference, that Santry is not confined to schoolmasters. The boys at Santry receive a 
 first-class education in every branch of science, and are eligible for any appointment which 
 a first-class English education would qualify them. They are taught surveying, mapping, 
 and several other branches. 
 
 23328. Still I understand that the great olyect is, as far as possible, to qualify them to 
 fill the situation of schoolmasters ? — So it is ; but the education is not limited to that 
 purpose. 
 
 23329. If the total inimbcr of persons educated in your schools has been reduced, you com- 
 pensate for that diminution of numbers by sending out those who are themselves capable
 
 2i0 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DfBi-iN. of becomino; masters of scliools? — Just so; many of tliom liavc gone to England, and we 
 
 , ~~7~, ^. ■ receive the most a:ratifvinir accounts from tiiem of their success. 
 
 i:i Dnhlin. fur ' T-i'iciQ. there is no hmderance, then, in *lic way ot the development ol tins scheme. 
 
 i>riiiimi!iii/ Enylis'i except what arises from the deficiency in the funds? — Oh, no hiiideranco whatever ; and I 
 
 Pruh'stm,! schvuh in ^j^Jj^k jj^^ f,„n]j; y^-\\[ ajniit of its beins;- carried out. I do not apprehend the slightest 
 
 ■n ,<• 1 1 , r,, impediment to it. 
 
 Rev. Kicli.ird Anl;ll. '.,nQ, \ ^.^ e i ■ ■ o v 
 
 2333 1. Arc the funds incrca.sing" — les. 
 
 23332. The droppino; of the annuities will add £200 or £GO0 a-ycar to your income? — 
 1 beg leave to remark, that as regards the boarders, the parents pay £14 10«. yearly i'or 
 their diet and washing; all the other expenses of the boarders arc defrayed by the society. 
 
 23333. Is there much demand for the admission into vour schools of pavin"' boarders? — 
 There is a great demand ; I do not sujipose wo have a vacancy at presrnt. 1 visited 
 Santry a short time ago, and there are in it lOU beds, which Avcre occupied by 103 boys: 
 I told the master that it was a violation of the orders of the sociefy that two boys should 
 sleep together; but he said they were brothers, and their parents were so anxious that 
 they should not be sej^aratcd that he permitted them to sleep together ; but this has been 
 discontinued. All our boarding establishments are well tilled. We have now. perhap'S, a 
 few vacancies at x\thlone; hut I am not aware of any vacancy in the other schools. The 
 boys put down their names, and wait until the vacancy arises. I may remark that I was 
 at .Santry a short time ago, when the measles were very prevalent, and the master was 
 in.structed by me, when any di.scasc broke out. though there is an hospital attached to the 
 ■establi-shment. to commur.icate with the parents or friends of the boys, in order that they 
 Vnight withdraw tlieni if they liked : but they said they were perfectly satisfied they would 
 l»e taken good care of at Santry. that tlicy were under good medical treatment, and they 
 would not remove them. The Commissioners will bear in mind that the cx])onses of tbe.'e 
 several boarding schools are divided amongst the boarders as well as the foundationers : 
 for the society ])ays all the expenses of the boarders as well as the foundationers, their 
 •diet and washing excoj)ted. 
 
 23334. Would you state di^^tinctly what are the expenses which the society bears for the 
 ■■boarders? — Tliey bear all their expenses, except diet and washing. 
 
 23335. What are these expenses? — They do not clothe them. 
 
 2333f). Are they left to clothe themselves? — There is house rent, masters, and mis- 
 tresses, servants to attend to their clothes, medical attendance, stationery, &c. 
 
 23337. School recjuisites of all kinds? — Yes; and there is also this great advantage. 
 ■\ivliich ought not to bo overlooked, that you preserve in the mind of the parents that feelirig 
 of independence which it is always desirable to cherish — namely, that the children are not 
 receiving gratuitous or charitable education, inasmuch as they pay so much for them. The 
 expense they pay is what the child would cost if he were at home with his parents. The 
 education is gratuitous in all other respects; but still our system preserves that spirit of 
 independence which tells tiiem they are not receiving a mere charitable education. 
 
 23338. Does the society furni.-<h t!ie paying boarders with clothing? — Oh, no. 
 
 23330. In order, at tlio Santry sciiool, or any of the schools, that the society might furnish 
 adequate means for pu])ils to learn the duties of schoolmasters, it would be necessary that 
 there sh.ould bo a school for children, by instructing which those teachers could themselves 
 be trained. Is there adequate 02)j)ortunity of that kind sujiplied in Santry ? — There are 
 monitors, and these are raised to be assistant teachers ; and they receive a small pecil- 
 niary gratuity for their attendance as monitors. 
 
 23340. The children of the junior class(/s at Santry are instructed by these pupil-toach- 
 ers ? — Tliey are. 
 
 23341. Is there a sufhcient number of chddren in the junior class to furnish ])ractice to 
 the ])upil-teachers ; are they not themselves superior in their education to the ordinary run 
 of children, such as you ■would meet with in ])arish schools? — Certainly, because they are 
 the children of the better class; still their education is very defective. The master, with 
 the view of jirepariiig two or three rif the foundationers who may hav(! a taste fV)r teaching, 
 ajipoints them as monitors to assist him in ciinducting the school, at the same time that he 
 has two paid assistants besides. 
 
 23342. It is desirable that in a training college the puiiil-tcachers should have the 
 opportunity of tcacliing a large class of children of average intellect and acquirements. Do 
 you tinnk that such opportunities exist at Siintry as at present managed? — It is quite 
 essential that tliere should he such an o])portunity, and it does exist. In the day-schools 
 of the society tiie same monitorial system is carried out; the monitors are paid so mucli 
 a-year for assisting in the management of the sciiool. 
 
 23343. How do you make u]) for th<> want of a similar system of training the female 
 pupils, a8 you have no institution for them exactly corresponding to Santry? — It is in 
 some measure carried out in the female school also. There are monitresses who teach the 
 junior classes: and they aro tluMuscdves ])romoted to tiu; ollice of teacliers, for whicli they 
 are jiaid an usheresscs. and arc; provided, nhen possible, with schools elsewliere. 
 
 2.334-!. Aro a])plications very freipiently made to you for schoolmasters and school- 
 mistresses? — For schoolmasters I have moi'o applications than 1 can supply ; not so many 
 for schoolmistresses. 
 
 23345. It may be, perhaps, known that you have not the same means of sui)])lying the 
 demand for schoolmistresses ? — We have not. in the first ])lace, the same number; we have 
 ordy two female institutions, and we liavi' si.K boys' institutions. We iiave not the saaio 
 nu!nl>er of apjilications made for schoolmistresses tliat we have for schoolmasters.
 
 Irrtawl. 
 \W\. l;i(li;ir.i Anlill. 
 
 EVIDENCE. 211 
 
 2;}34(5 IJut the number of applications made to von for sdioolinastcrs seems to imlicatc Dublin. 
 
 that if vou ciilargod your operations in tliat (liroctioii tliat tliLTo still would be employment 
 
 ))rovi(led fur all the persons wlioni you trained in your schools? — 1 think if it was enlarnjed ' i,'/'i),"h'li'n.'yo,'''''' 
 threefold there would b(^ the means of ]>n)vi(liiii; respectably for them all; whereas, as innmoiliir/ Em/llsh 
 re"-ards the finnale schools, I think the i^irls would have: the oi)i)orlunitv of iroiiis out as ^''""•'■'"«' •*>''■'''">/« '" 
 teacliers ; because the education ot iemales is now raised to a superior standard to what it 
 was a i'ew years ago. 
 
 2;53-)7. There was not any considerable demand in ls2Jfor candidate teachers educated 
 at Saiitry, and one of the reasons alleged for this was their boyish appearance and their 
 ignorance of the world, owing to their having passed their lives in the seclusion of a charter 
 scliool. These were boys who >vere brought up in the nurseries and Ijoarding schools of 
 the Incorporated Society, and were ultimately trained in Santry, having never mixed with 
 their families since they were infants. Are you of opinion that the system of training uj) 
 boys of the humbler classes in boarding schools is likely to produce injurious efl'ects upon 
 their characters'? — [ think so, if carried to the extent to which you have just now alluded, 
 were they to be quite isolated from the world, and brought up in nurseries and (jtlu^r 
 schools without any knowledge of the world ; but under the system ailoptcil at jjresent ])j 
 the society, boys live with their parents and friends uj) to the age of eleven. Then when 
 they arc received into the Incorporated [Society's schools they are allowed to go home at 
 the vacation. There are three vacations in the year, and they have a much more extended 
 intercourse with the world than they had formerly under the old system. 
 
 2 i3 J8. Have they as much intercourse of that kind as the children of the upper ranks? — 
 1 think as much as children who are at boarding schools. 
 
 2.331!). Your vacations are a good deal shorter? — The vacations arc shorter; the boys 
 are obliged to return punctually, which is not always the case in other schools ; but 
 still they have opportunity for intercourse with the world, and of coui'se we cherish as 
 much as po.ssible the intercourse of the boys with their families and friends, who would 
 be likely to assist and advance them in life ; and we have many cases of boys who go out 
 into respectable positions remitting money to tlieir pare::ts, and otherwise placing them in 
 comfortable positions in this country. 
 
 2.i.-!5i). The Commissioners of 1825 questioned the maintenance of the boarding schools, 
 at what they called so largo an expense and to so little purpose. At the conclusion 
 of that portion of the report which relates to the Incorporated Society, they state — " It 
 will he for the society to judge in what manner they can most usefully apply the large 
 revenues wliich have been entrusted to them by the donation or bequests of charitable 
 individuals, and to decide whether it still be expedient to maintain boarding schools 
 at so large an expense, and, we think, to so little purpose. They have already acted 
 upon the principle of establishing day schools, and if hereafter they should determine to 
 extend their application of that principle, the superintendence and management of the 
 schools maintained by them might readily be brought under the powers of the board, 
 which we have recommended to be established." lias that question between boarding 
 schools and day schools, to your knowledge, been discussed by tlie society? — It has not 
 been brought regularly before the board ; but latterly we have given more extension to the 
 day schools, as I observed a short time ago. Since my appointment there has been one 
 inistitution at Primrose grange, and there have been seven (hiy schools established under the 
 society, but the boarding schools as at present constituted are very difi'crcnt from those 
 referred to in the statement before you. 
 
 2 i3ol. You would say that the boarding schools as at present managed are not liable 
 to the reproach that the children in them want that practical experience which children 
 under ordinary circumstances acquire by witnessing the realities of every-day domestic 
 life ? — That is jirecisely what I sa}'. 
 
 233S2. Tiic Commissioners of 1825 intimate in their report that the reports of the 
 local committees were not to be implicitly trusted to : do you fiud at present that the. 
 superintendence of the local committees con'ributes to the maintenance of the schools in 
 an eilicient state? — I cannot speak too highly in praise of the local committee at Celbridge, 
 who take the liveliest interest in the management of the school ; but as it is a female 
 establishment ladies are given the direction and superintendence of those n-atters which do 
 not come immediately under the surveillance of gentlemen ; but as regards the other local 
 committees in the male institutions we have, if 1 recollect rightly, but one institution that 
 has a local committee. There are occasional visitors, but the local committee was found 
 sometimes running in opposition to the wishes of the society, which was not considered 
 beneficial ; but at Celbridge the local committee is most efficient, and the institution would 
 not be what it is if it was not for their assistance. 
 
 2335 5. Are you in favour of giving a certain amount of superintending power to local 
 committees when you think there are persons on the spot who are likely to be diligent in 
 examining into the management of the school and looking after its interests? — ^Ve wish 
 all persons to take au interest in them. AVe invite the clergy and gentry everywhere we 
 have an institution to record their opinions in reports ; but a local committee is a different 
 thing, which sits and passes laws and regulations, some of which may not meet with the 
 ajiproval of the society. There was son-.e such misunderstanding between the board and 
 the local committees, but I allude now more to matters of history as regaids the Incorpo- 
 rated Society, than to what has come within my own knowledge. 
 
 23354. The argument against intrusting the care of the schools to local committees might 
 be stated in this way, that a local committee, if it be zealous and active, is likelv to come 
 
 Vol. II. 2 I
 
 212 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DtBLlX. 
 
 /tromothtt/ 
 Protes^timt Scliovh 
 Ireland. 
 
 Rev. Eidi.nrd Ardill 
 
 into collision with the central committee ; and if it be negligent, then, of course, every kind 
 of abuse is likely to arise. — I could hardly say that if it is zealous and active it would fall 
 ^"InDablfn^for''" Under the disapproval of the society, but it might desire to enforce a particular objcLt, 
 itromoilig'Enylhh ov wish that a particular officer was appointed, or tliat the salary of the medical officer, 
 for instance, should be raised. Such questions would arise with a local committee, and 
 might create a misunderstanding between tlic local committee and the parent society. 
 
 23355. The view which 1 am stating was expressed by Mr. Disney, formerly a member 
 of the Incorporated Society, in the following words — " The two-fold government, by means 
 of the local committee on the spot, and the central committee in Dubhn, is liable to 
 considerable objections. If the local committees are zealous and active, and take an 
 interest in the welfare of the school, they cannot carry any of their plans for the improve- 
 ment of the school under their immediate care into execution without the concurrence of 
 the committee in DubHn. That committee will frequently not enter into their views, and 
 when they do the general interests of the schools, or the state of the funds, may render it 
 inexpedient to comply with their applications ; hence zeal is damped, and local exertions 
 discouraged." — I think there is a great deal of truth in that statement, but at the same 
 time there has never been any misunderstanding between the local connnittce and the 
 society, except on one occasion where the local committee desired to advance the salary 
 of some medical officer who attended one of the institutions beyond a sum that the society 
 thought it right to give. The society refused to give it, and the medical officer retired, 
 and another was appointed in his place. That is tlio only instance of a misunderstanding 
 that 1 am aware of. 
 
 23356. In point of fact, the management of the schools by means of local committees, 
 has been given up generally ; there are only, 1 think you stated, two local committees in 
 any way charged with the superintendence of the scliools? — They are merely considered 
 as local guarcUans, without any power, except that of recommendation. 
 
 23357. Then the local superintendence exercised is committed to the catechists? — The 
 catechist is accoimtable to the society for his weekly visits. 
 
 23358. How often does he make his returns ? — His visits are recorded in the visitors' 
 book, and the returns arc sent up qtiarterly from some schools, and half-yearly from others. 
 
 23359. Are they uniformly made in compliance with the rule of the society?— Oh, yes, 
 always in compliance with the rules. 
 
 23360. By the rules of the society in 182.5 the catechist was required to report, at least, 
 once a month ? — It is not done so frequently now. 
 
 23361. These returns, though required to be furnished monthly, are not so furnished ? — 
 No ; quarterly or half-yearly. Some send them up quarterly and otliers half-yearly, and 
 they are read by tlie chairman. 
 
 23362. Now the Commissioners who have inquired into the afl'airs of the society have 
 stated tliat its welfare depends very much upon the diligence and efficiency of the com- 
 mittee of Fifteen. The Commissioners of 1825 state — " The attendance of the committee 
 of Fifteen appears totally inadequate to the discharge of the various duties imposed u2)on 
 them." What is the number which constitutes a quorum of the committee of Fifteen? — Three. 
 
 233G3. How are the powers of that committee limited when a quorum is not assem- 
 bled ? — Supposing one or two members of the committee came late, tliey agree in the 
 minutes of the preceding day. The minutes are coi)ied into one of the committee books. 
 There is a rough minute taken at the time, and they are fairly copied into one of the 
 committee books. If one or two members come in, tlicy can compare these minutes to 
 see they are correct. In case there is not a quorum, they do not exercise any other 
 duties than merely to transact business which may be considered routine. 
 
 23364. Is the business regarded as done cll'cctually, even though only two members 
 should have been present? — No; because tJiey only read the minutes of tlie preceding 
 day ; but the ordering of things for the time ensuing is the result of the co-operation of 
 three members. 
 
 23365. But is business done when three are not present ? — Nothing but routine busi- 
 ness ; there is no new business transacted. 
 
 23366. I think that in looking over the proceedings of the committee of Fifteen, I 
 noticed several instances in which tlie number pnsent fell short of the quorum of three ; 
 as, for instance, in i\larch, 1854. — Tliore was notliing but routine business done on that 
 occasion. Tiio other two members gave tlicir ajiprobation to tlie proceedings, because 
 they signed, afterwards, the drafts wliicli had been ordered. 
 
 23307. The drafts ibr money had to be signed afterwards by two members? — They 
 must be signed by three. 
 
 23368. The proceedings of the committee of Fifteen at their meeting in July, 1854, 
 appear to have been very heavy and important ? — Tlie reason they were so heavy is this, 
 tliat the yearly accounts come in then ; and you will find tlie in'occcdings after December 
 and after June much heavier. 
 
 23369. It was a particularly heavy and important meeting of the committee of I'iftecn? 
 —Yes. 
 
 23370. I sec that there were hut two members of the committee of Fifteen present. 
 How was that defect made good ? — That was made good by the third member signing tlie 
 drafts. He must give his adhesion to the j)roceedings of the otliers. 
 
 2.3371. Where is the regulation tliat 
 — In I'ebruary, when wo appoint the 
 year. 
 
 three are necessary to constitute a quorum? 
 oflicere, tlic rules arc made for tlio cnsuinf'
 
 EVIDENCE. 213 
 
 23372. Where do we find that rule hiid down, is it in tlic charter? — I do not know that Dublin. 
 it is in the charter. 
 
 23373. The ckiiso in tlie cliarter is to this effect:— "We do herchy ordain and appoint, ""Z'DMiij^"^ 
 that tlic said society do, at tlicir first general meeting, nominate and appoint fifteen of prowoiiny EkijUxIi 
 their niunber to be a committee, to meet in Dublin the first .Alonday in every month, or ^''"''^x'oi't Sdiook in 
 oftenor, as need shall require, in such place or places as shall be agreed upon by the said „ -n-'i '"" 
 society; and the said committee, or any three or more of them, at the time and place "' "^ """'' ^ ■■'''"■ 
 appointed for their meeting, are hereby empowered to carrry into execution all sucli 
 
 orders, rules, and directions as shall from time to time be made by the t-aid society, pur- 
 suant to the powers herel»y given to tiiem." — That is the portion of the charter which 
 regulates tlie proceedings of February. I think it will be found that the attendance 
 is usually small in the sununer, when many members of the society arc absent. In winter 
 the attendance is better. 
 
 23371. I have made an analysis of the attendance for the year 1854 and 1855 from 
 
 March, 1854, to March, 1855; and I think, during that time, there were seven occasions 
 when tliero was no quorum present to transact business. That comprises about one- 
 third of the entire meetings, as there is no meeting in June ? — No. 
 
 23375. At one-third of the meetings there was no quorum to transact business, and it 
 would appear to me tliat the proceedings were not in accordance with the charter. I 
 have made an analysis of the attendance of the raembei's of the committee of Fifteen for 
 two years, and I will ask you whether the conclusions which I state appear to you to be 
 correct. I find, that during the year 1854 only six members of the committee of Fifteen 
 attended. What would you count upon as the numbers likely to attend a meeting of the 
 committee of Fifteen? — About three or four. In winter we have more than in summer. 
 
 23376. The total number of the attendances in the year 1854 was thirtj--two, and the 
 number of meetings was ten, giving an average attendance of little more than three. To 
 what do you ascribe this small attendance of the committee of Fifteen. It appears that 
 the average attendance was barely sufficient to make a quorum, and that at one third of 
 the meetings, for two years, there was no actual quorum present ? — Of the fifteen there 
 are some members who are bishops, and do not find it convenient to attend. The only 
 bishop who attends is the Bishop of Meath, and sometimes the Bishop of Ossory, and 
 tlie members in Dublin. 
 
 23377. Has the Bisliop of Ossory attended within the last two years ? — N^o ; but he has 
 met us at the F'ococke Institution. He is one of the visitors of that institution ; but he 
 has not attended any meeting of the society for upwards of two years. 
 
 23378. Who are the members of the committee of Fifteen who of late liave been most 
 diligent in their attendance ?— The Rev. George Blacker, Rev. Mr. Stubbs, and Mr. 
 Stubbs, of College, and Jlr. Stewart Blacker constantly attended until lately, when he was 
 prevented from attending by the death of a relative. 
 
 23379.. To these names you may add those of the Dean of St. Patrick's, and tlie Arch- 
 deacon of Glendalough ? — Oh, yes. 
 
 23380. Are there any other members of the committee whom you would speak of as 
 diligent in their attendance ? — Mr. O'Neill, since his appointment, has been regular in his 
 attendance. 
 
 23381. How long has he been a member of the committee ? — I think ho was appointed 
 February twelve months, and while in Dublin he attends. 
 
 23382. Turn to committee book of August, 1855, and tell me how many members were 
 present? 
 
 23383. [S'ecretar}j. — '• The Eev. George I'lacker, chairman, and the Rev. W. Stubbs. 
 Ordered that the following sums be paid:" — and then follows a list of the sums to be 
 paid, commencing at page 23, and running to page 36.] 
 
 23384. Were orders made at that meeting for the payments of large sums of money? — 
 For the payment of the half-yearly accounts. 
 
 23385. Something like half the yearly expenditure of the society? — The half-yearly 
 expenditure in connexion with the schools, but they are regular stated sums, the payment 
 of which does not depend upon the will or caprice of the committee at all. They are items 
 regulated and established by the general board of the society. For instance, they say the 
 dietary shall be so much ; that there shall bo such an allowance for the schools, so 
 much for candles, for servants, and such other matters. Really the business transacted was 
 simi^ly routine. 
 
 23386. Are you quite sure that there were no orders made at that meeting of the com- 
 mittee except what related absolutely to routine matters. 
 
 23387. \_Secretar)/. — "The committee considered Mr. Millard's estimate (amoimting to 
 £110) for completing, externally, the tower connected with the new works at the Athlone 
 Institution, agreeably to original plan. Resolved, — The above estimate being considered 
 too high, tliat the matter be referred to Mr. Ardill and Mr. Pidgeon, with power to pro- 
 cure and accept an estimate for the plastering of the centre portion of the tower, being 
 the pai't built entirely of brick."] 
 
 23388. Miglit not the committee as well have accepted that estimate or refused to 
 accept it, as to delegate to other parties the power of accepting it. I have no doubt but 
 this proceeding was in accordance with the directions of the general board of the society; 
 but the question is, whether it was a legal act under the charter, whether the committee 
 could carrv into execution the orders, rules, and directions of the society when only two 
 
 Vol. II." 2 12
 
 2i4 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, CO^nilSSION. 
 
 Pi i:i.i-<. were present. — There was an exception in this case, becanse we were threatened with 
 le.o-al proceedings by this man. and we were anxious to have the worli conchulcd. 
 
 hia.riwruiul Swi.hj '23389. Dr. Andreu'g. Do you give any notice to the committee of Fifteen, prior to 
 
 iZmotlmndliLh the meeting, of wliat the basinets will bo ?— No ; we do not to tlic committee. Imt to the 
 
 Proiesiiiiii S,-h',wis ,.-, n-eneral board, if there be leases to bo signed, or any thing of tliat sort to lie introduced. 
 Iiilui.d. There is a printed paper sent round, in wliich is .stated tlie general business of the 
 
 Hc-v. I'.iiliard .\r.iiii. gQ^j^j.^.^ ^'he Committee of Fifteen are summoned ; and if tliey do not attend, L do not 
 well know what to do. If the business was not transacted by tliose two members, having 
 the sanction nf the third member, who signs the dra!t afterwards, the society would come 
 to a stand still, and tlie different schools and institutions would be unable to carry on their 
 operations. It is such a feeling tliat has led those two mendnrs to act; and if they did 
 not act, I cannot describe the unpleasant position in which the society would be placed. 
 
 2.33D0. Does it not occur to you that the dilliculty of obtaining a due attendance of the 
 members of the committee of J- ifteen, arises out of tlie practice of placing on the list of 
 fifteen, the names of several persons, in respect of whom you might safely predict before- 
 hand that thev could seldom or never attend ? — On the last occasion the committee was being 
 formed, there were some members who did not attend regularly, and it was suggested their 
 names should be removed, and tlie names of others who had been last communicated with, 
 and who liad promised to attend, substituted ; we have those names now, and constantly 
 on the printed notices which go out to members, I write, " Please attend, if not very 
 inconvenient to you;" or words to that effect. I insert this in order to secure a large 
 attendance. In February there were some gentlemen residing in college appointed, and I 
 trust their attendance will be more regular than that of the individuals wliom they suc- 
 ceeded ; but there is no eftbit wanting on my part, I can assure you, to have as full a 
 meeting as possible. 
 
 2.339 1. Chairman. — It docs not appear that all the orders made by the two members of 
 the committee, on the 18th July, related merely to matters of routine ; here, for instance, 
 is a refusal to admit a claim for £95 9s. and £37 10s., and the architect was paid £17 10s. 
 fees due to him ; here, too, is an order that a sum not exceeding £o per annum, to com- 
 mence from S.jth .June, ultimo, be allowed for the cleansing of certain out- offices connected 
 with a school ; that appears to me to be an annual charge created. 1 merely mean to 
 notice that the members of the committee present found themselves called upon to do 
 acts neccssarv for the carrying on the business of the society ; but it is a question whetlier 
 they are at liberty to do so under the terms of the charter, whether their acts were valid. 
 
 23392. What is about the total number of children now educated in the schools ? — There 
 are 1,QOO educated in the schools as day scholars and boarders, and there are about 200 
 educated in three parochial schools, which receive pecuni.iry assistance from the society. 
 
 23393. Wliere tlie society have property, and, as landlonls, are called ujion to keep up 
 schools, are they bound to do so according to t!ie tenure of their pro])erty ? — I do not 
 know that they are bound to do so, but tiiey consider it is ccjuitable. These tiirce schools 
 contain about 200 pupils; so that the entire number of children educated by the society, 
 and in connexion with it, is about 1,250. 
 
 23M94. Former Commissioners suggested that it would be desirable tliat the society 
 should not trust to occasional inspections by membirs of the committee, but tliat it would 
 be expodi(Mit to appoint permanent visitors of the scliools. Has that question been discussed 
 by your committee? — It has formed the subject of conversation ; but there never was any 
 definite measure brought forward on the suliject. Tiiere has been a plan introduced by 
 which the catechist holds examinations twice a-year— -at Christmas and Whitsuntide — in the 
 various branches of education, principally the secular branches, and he reports to the society 
 the result of his examination. In .several cases the catecliists have had the assistance of 
 men of learning in conducting tliis examination, and their rejiorts have been creditable to 
 the institutions. 
 
 23395. I have learnt from your minute books, that at one time it was contemplated to 
 employ an inspector; was that plan ever carried into cll'ect?— I am not aware tliat it was. 
 
 233911. In the Appendix to the Hejiort of the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, 
 printed in IHO^, 1 find a collection of the rules of the society: and the Coiiimi.s.sioncrs 
 conclude tlieir report with a recomniendation in these words — " With respect to the rules 
 of the society aiine.\ed to tiiis report, there are several of tliem of long standing, and some 
 of them inconsistent with tlie principles on which the institution is now conducted. This 
 inconsistency jioints out the necessity of a revision of these rules, with a view to the omis- 
 sion of all such as are obsolete in practice ; and we have recommended such revision to 
 the society accordingly." Was any such body of revised I'ulcs jirinted and put forth 
 for the guidance of tlie members, in the government of tiie society ? — That direction was 
 made in F^O', but 1 am not aware that tiiese rules were corrected or revised. 
 
 23397. There is no such code now in (wistence ?--No. 
 
 2339.S. 1 do not understand whether you stated that the Kevin-street school was wholly 
 su])pres.scd ? — Oh, yes; it is wholly suppressed. 
 
 23399. Have the jiremises in Kevin-street been given uj)? — They cannot be given up, 
 because they are lield under lease for ever; but tiiey arc let to a manufacturer, and the 
 ]»roceedK are applicable to the su|)i)ort of the schools of the society. 
 
 23400. Then; is a very large item here in the accounts ending 31st Jlarch, 1P54, under 
 tlio beail of Kevin-street, i)aid as head-rent, and for flie maintenance of invalid girls, 
 X31G (Js. .')'(. — The maintenance of invalid girls is under the iiead of Kevin-street ; and the
 
 EVIDENCE. 245 
 
 rent is payable to Mr. Coo])or, wliicli is £.300, present currency, and wliicli tlie Society is J)lijlis. 
 
 untbrtunately bouii;! to i):iy. The invalid cfirly are the ciirlit that I siioke of an the annul- , — ; ^. . 
 
 tants, who roe-eivo about liiO amongst thoni. ,„ ijuhlm, for 
 
 '2.'i401. Is the anioiint the name in other j'ears? — Tlie rent is ]iavaljle to two faniilie.s jniumiiinij F.nijlisli 
 oF th(! naiie ofCoojxn-; and perha])S tlie reason wliy tlie amount was so large that year, ^'"''''y"'/,;^]'/"'"''' '" 
 was bccau.so one portion of tlie rent iiad not been called in for some time. „ ,,. ,. , ..i-n 
 
 2."3402. I would ask some farther information with regard to these pensions. ^Vere they 
 given as conijiensation to tlie masters and mistresses of the sup|)ressed schools? — 1 believe 
 as co:iipcns;itiiin. and in accordance with tlio suggestions contained in Mr. (jrant's letter. 
 
 2JJU3. What is the amount of the allowance g^iven to the invalid girls? — 1 think the 
 eight have £54 a-year 
 
 2.340 1. Are pensions anil allowances (if tliat kind coupled witli ;iny conditions — are they 
 terminable in any other way except by tlie death of the persons to whom they are made? 
 — Tiie grant to those invalid girls is dift'ereiitly circumstanced from the annuities, because 
 these grants are ordered each time of ])aymont, but the annuities are not ordered each time 
 of payment. I made an attiMupt to relieve the society of tiiose eight invalids; I spoke to 
 Colonel Connolly as to the expediency of getting them into the ])oorliouse, l)ut they would 
 not bo received, and tlie socu?ty is now at the expense of maintaining them. '1 hey are 
 located in the county of Wicklow, where tliey tcacli little children ; tliey are not able to 
 do any laborious work, as they arc great invalids. 
 
 23405. Are you aware whether the payment of pensions is coupled with any condition 
 which could make them terminable otherwise than by the death of the annuitants ? — There 
 are no conditions attached to them. Tiicy are not conditional. 
 
 2:5406. .\re you quite sure of that? — 1 have been always so instructed. 
 
 2:i407 Could any pensioner assign away his pension to another person? — Yes; the 
 society bought an annuity from a man named liing, who was tlie head master of the 
 Earra Institution for several years; and wishing to go to Australia, he sold his annuity. 
 
 23408. Are you quite sure that that was not a pension granted during the pleasure of 
 the society? — I should think it was not granted during the pleasure of the society, but 
 tliat it was granted for [):ist services. 
 
 2340J. I think you will find that some of these pensions have been granted during the 
 l^le vsure of the society ? — Perhaps so, but I am not aware. There is a letter of Mr. Grant's, 
 the then secretary, which was the foundation of the.se annuities. 
 
 23410. Do those pensioners hold any document that they could bring into the market 
 and sell as a security ? — They hold no document except the order of the society to the 
 eft'ect that their memorial for past services having been under tlie consideration of the 
 society, they were ]deased to grant them an annuity. 
 
 23411. I should like to see one of those forms, in order to be satisfied that the pensions 
 arc not granted during the pleasure of the society? — I have never seen any of them. 
 
 25412. Surely when you purchased a pension you must have got up the document? — I 
 never saw it ; there was no annuity granted, to the best of yc\j recollection, since my 
 appointment as secretary ; the document was a mere order of the board, to the effect, I 
 I should think, that the services of such a person being considered, the society granted an 
 annuity of so much. 
 
 23413. [Uev. J. W. Siuhbs. — The general expenditure ujjon Kevin-street is £281 ; in 
 the particular year referred to it was £31G 6s. bd. : but the reason of the dift'erence is, that, 
 as Mr. Ardill stated, the rent is divided into parts ; one is paid to Mr. Cooper himself, and 
 the other paid to iMr. and ilrs. Cooper (the aunt of Jlr. Cooper). Mr. and Mrs. Cooper 
 received one and a half year's rent on account, and that would make the dift'erence in the 
 expenditure, inasmuch as the half-year's rent due to Mr. anil Mrs. Cooper is about 
 £37 l(i5. 1 1(/., deducting income tax and poor rates. I am tuider the impression that there 
 is no paper given to the annuitant except a copy of the order of the board.] 
 
 23414. The Commissioners would like to see what the original orders were. 
 
 23415. \_Secretary. — This is one of the first cases on the list of annuities, and the minute 
 respecting it, which is dated April 1st, 1840, is as follows : — " The memorial of Mr. George 
 Clarke having been read, it was resolved, that the society cannot comply with his request 
 to have the suai of £lj0, advanced as a loan on the lOth of January, 1833, and still due 
 by him, remitted ; but tliat tliey grant a pension of £60 a-year (being the highest sum 
 given in any former case) to him and his wife — the society insuring his life for the aforesaid 
 sum of £150, and deducting the amount of the policy from the annuity." 
 
 23416. Another case is recorded in the minutes of the Cth December, 1848: — "A 
 memorial from ^Ir. Ikichard Iting was read, praying permission to dispose of the sum of 
 £18 !).*. 2fi!. per annum, an annuity held by him from the society as late master of Farra 
 school, llesolved — That permission be granted to Mr. Ring to dispose of said annuity, 
 which will be paid to the purcliaser so long as Jlr. King shall continue to live in Ireland — 
 the arrangement to be carried into effect subject to the revision of Mr. Pidgeon, in order 
 that the arrears of rent njw due to the society may be secured."] 
 
 2.5417. Can you find any other instance in the books, Dr. Hancock? — \_Secrctarii, — This 
 is a minute dated 8tli .Tanuary, 1842 : — "And it appearing that ilr. and Mrs. Payne had 
 been granted an annuity of £40, late currency, for their joint lives, to be reduced on the 
 decease of either of them to the sum of £20, late currency, per annum, for the life of the 
 survivor." There is no name mentioned as the person to whom it is assigned, but in the 
 margin is " Isaac Mandcrs, £9 4^. 7ci."] 
 
 23418. Have you any cognizance of this transaction? — I have not ; I understood it was
 
 •24 G 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IjRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DlXBLIN. 
 
 Incorporated Socieli/ 
 
 in Dublin, for 
 
 promotinij English 
 
 Vrotestnnt Schools in 
 
 Ireland. 
 
 Ilev. Richard Ar.Ull 
 
 purchased by a person named Manders; I have received on the payment of the annuity 
 from time to time, a certificate of the existence of the claim. 
 
 234 1 9. Were you aware that this pension wa., assigned to Mr. Pidgeon ? — Not until lately ; 
 Mr. Pidgeon told me it was held in trust for him. 
 
 23420. [Secretary. — The last case I have to notice on the list is dated January, 1853. 
 It is incorrectly entered ; it is entered " George Payne, master of Ross, thirteen years' ser- 
 vice, 4th May-, 1851, £36 18s. 5d ;" but it a]>pears from the former minute of January, 
 1842, which I have ju.st read, that it should be not to George Payne, but to George Payne 
 and his wife.] 
 
 23421. It i.s stated that one of the advantages to be derived from holding visitations and 
 inspections of the schools is, to give an opportunity to the pupils to complain of any mis- 
 conduct on the part of the masters or mistresses, and the Commissioners, in 1S25, noticed 
 that a memorial which was drawn up by several candidate teachers at Santry, for the pur- 
 pose of being laid before the board, was suppressed ; I desire to know whether the pupils 
 in the schools now ever address complaints to the governing body alleging misconduct or 
 improper treatment on the part of the masters? — I do not know of any complaints being 
 addressed now to the board. 
 
 23422. Tlie Commissioners of 182.5, in their Report, state : — "No offence that a charter 
 school child can commit seems to be less pardonable than daring to utter a complaint;" and 
 they instanced cases of punishment of boys who were severely beaten for having made com- 
 plaints of ill-treatment received from masters. Many instances are given in evidence, but 
 you assert that no complnints are now made by the pupils in the schools? — I never knew 
 any complaint having been made except one, and that was from the boys at Santry, which 
 took place a few years ago ; they sent in a complaint tliat they were made to clean their 
 own shoes, which is an established thing in all the schools. After these boys made the 
 complaint they saw it was very foolish, and it fell to the ground. The boys are well treated, 
 and I think great affection exists between the tutors and their pupils. 
 
 23423. Do you think there now exists between the pupils and the visitors and catechists 
 such a rclation.ship, that if there were misconduct or undue severity exercised by the masters, 
 the boys would Tnake their complaints to tlie catechist or members of the committee visiting 
 the school? — I am quite sure they would. A case came within my own knowledge in April 
 last : the English master at Primi'ose-grange had used violence in beating a boy ; he caned him- 
 severely ; and the catechist complained to rao about it. I immediately v.-rote to the master,- 
 reprimanding him, and telling him that no corporal punislnnent was admissible in the 
 society's school, except a pandy on the hand, and forbidding him to repeat this conduct ; 
 but I think as much confidence exists between the pupils and the tutors under the 
 Incorporated SocieSy as between the masters and the pupils in any private scliool. 
 
 23421. Are there any regulations laid down by the governing body with reference to the 
 use of corporal puni.shment in the schools? — I do not think that there are any ju'inted 
 rules on the subject, but it is perfectly understood that corporal punishment is not to be 
 administered. 
 
 23425. You are aware that very great complaints came before former Commissioners 
 with respect to the severe punishment administered by tlie masters of the schools to the 
 pupils ? — I have no doubt of it ; but we pursue a different system now. There was a 
 master in one of the charter schools, one of the most violent men the society had, wdio told 
 me (and I just mention the fart to show the state of society at the time), that when the 
 boys came out of chiu'cli at Santry on Sunday, they were ushered into a room, had their 
 Sunday clothes changed for their week-daj^ clotlies, and their now shoes taken off', and the 
 old ones put on, lest tliey sliould run av.ay with tlieir new clothes. I merely mention this 
 to show the great change wliich has taken place in society. 
 
 23426. Is any entry made in the school repoi't books of corporal punishment when it is 
 administered. Is it reported that a boy is thus punished ?— No. 
 
 23427. If the master finds it necessary to administer corporal punishment, would he make 
 any entry of that circumstance in the register of the school, to be communicated afterw.ards 
 to tlie committee, or catechist? — I rather think he would not; he wo\dd not record an act 
 of which the society would complain. 
 
 23428. Then do you mean by that to intimate tliat tlie masters have no authority to 
 inflict corporal puni.shmcnt? — They have no authority to inflict corporal punishment, except 
 so far as a pandy on the hand. If a boy is punished, it is, perliaps, by solitary confinement, 
 or by reporting hiin to the society. 
 
 23420. You mentioned it was an understood thing that corporal punishment should not 
 be inflicted, but that there was no rule; would it not be better that a rule should be laid 
 down, which would CDiivey the information, both to the ])upils and the master? — Pe]ha])s it 
 would be better; but whert^ cases of insubordinati(Ui occur, the master rejiorts it, and 1 then 
 write such a letter as he might read to the assemliled school, requiring that an ample apology 
 should be made by the offending ]>arty, or that his conduct would be brought under the con- 
 sideration of the board, when the consequence would be his dismissal, in all probability. 
 This system, invariably, had the desired ed'ect of producing a refdrmatioii and an apology. 
 
 234;50. [Serre/arif. — The most impoi'tant minute, as to the ipu'stion whether the annuities 
 are under the control of the society, is dated 6th August, IS45, and is as follows: — "The 
 Secretary having rcjiorted some circumstances whicli iiad lately been conununicatcd to iiini, 
 reflecting on the moral conduct of Samuel R. Upton, formerly master of Sligo school, in 
 consequence of which Mr. Ardill defei-red giving him the annuity now payable, until the 
 decision of the committee sliould bo ascertained : Resolved, that the annuity be erpuilly
 
 EVIDENCE. 217 
 
 divided between Samuel B. Upton and his wife, in conformity witli tlie order of tlio general ijlbun. 
 
 board, dated 17th April, 1833, granting such annuity, and tliat Mr. Ardili he rei[uested to 
 
 procure, from time to time, tostimonials of good character from each jKirty."] ^''wDuutn^fni'''''' 
 
 23-131. I renicmbor that case jjcrlectly ; the annuity was granted conjointly to holii promoting Eiu/liHli 
 parties. TJie man was not, I holiovc, what he ought to be. He u.sed to ajijiropriate all the l^/'otfiinni Sdwo/.- /« 
 money to himsoli', and leave his wife in great distress 'I'lic n)atter was brought under the «««' . 
 
 consideration ol tlie board, and tiiey immediately directed that tlie annuity should be divided ^''^' ^'"^'"""'^ .\i-'lill. 
 between them. I believe that he turned his wife out of the house, or something of that 
 sort. 
 
 '234.32. The order of tlic board seems very distinctly to imply that these annuities are 
 still, in some respects, disposable according to the pleasure of the board ? — Tliis annuity 
 was granted to the parties conjointly ; one of them abused the tru.st, and then tlie board 
 ordered it should be divided between them. 
 
 2343iJ. What is the use of requiring testimonials of good conduct from the annuitants? 
 — In the hope of producing a reformation tliat order was communicated. 
 
 23434. It appears to me, that if an annuity was granted to a husband, and one to his 
 wife, that the husband could take legal possession of the wife's annuity, if the annuity was 
 absolutely granted ; but as it ajipears from this order, the board made regulations with 
 regard to the matter, and controlled his power of doing wiiat he coidd do by law, that is, 
 take his wife's annuity. If tliey had not the power of withholding or diminisliing the annuity, 
 how could they intervene? — I believe, in that view of it, tlie husband was entitled to the 
 entire amount. 
 
 2.i43.5. What was the ])nrpose of I'cquiring testimonials of good conduct, except they 
 desired to hold out a threat that if tliese testimonials were not produced, the annuity 
 would be stopped ? — I have no doubt the testimonials were required with the view of 
 producing a retbrmation. 
 
 23436. I will not trouble you with any further inquii'ies. 
 
 William Pidgeon, Esq., examined. \Viii. pidgcun, Esij. 
 
 23437. Chairman. — Mi". Pidgcon, the Commissioners wish to receive some explanation 
 from you, as to tlio circumstances under wliich that pension was tran.sferred to a person in 
 trust for you?— Shall I state the way in which it was transferred, or the history of the 
 purchase of it ? 
 
 23 ViS. Give us an account of the entire transaction ? — I think it was about the year 
 1842 tliat Mr. Payne applied to me to purchase his annuity, and I, at first, declined ; and, 
 as well as I recollect, I then heard nothing of it for several months. lie again applied to 
 mo, and I recouTmendcd liim to speak to some one else. I then asked the solicitor of the 
 board whctlier tliere was any objection to my purchasing an annuity granted by them, and 
 lie replied, none whatever. I authorized Mr. Card to offer a certain sum for the annuity, 
 and also begged of him to get first the permission of the board for the sale of the annuity. 
 Ho made a report to the board, in which he stated that Mr. Payne applied for permission to 
 sell the annuity. The reason I got it assigned to a trustee was this : at that time there were 
 circumstances which might occur which would make me leave Ireland. I might go to 
 England or elsewhere ; and in case I left Ireland I wished to have this annuity receivable 
 by some person here, and I named ilr. Manders to receive it. There are several instances, 
 I think, where the board permitted the sale of annuities granted by them ; and in one of 
 the cases mentioned to-day they became the purchasers themselves. 
 
 23439. Would it have been their interest to purchase this annuity? — As it has turned 
 out it would, because the life is in existence to tlie present moment. However, that was a 
 question for the board to decide. I do not think that until lately the question of purchasing 
 annuities occurred to them ; but I know they gave permission for the sale of them, because 
 there are several otlier cases besides mine. 
 
 23440. Was an oft'er to purchase made by the board ? — That I cannot tell; but it was 
 not made to my knowledge. 
 
 23441. Did Mr. Card act as solicitor both for the board and for you in negotiating the 
 assignment ? — He did it for me ; for I made it a point to get his sanction, as the solicitor 
 of the board, in first getting their permission for the sale. 
 
 23142. Then he did act both for the board and for you as solicitor in the matter? — I 
 do not know that he was acting as my solicitor ; he was acting as Mr. Payne's solicitor. I 
 made a point of it that he should do it ; and unless ilr. Card told me it was a perfectly 
 legal transaction I would not have made the purchase. 
 
 23443. He communicated with the boardj made the assignment on your behalf, and 
 also acted for Mr. Payne ? — Yes, it was he spoke to me after I first declined it from 
 Mr. Payne. 
 
 23444. Now, if it was absolutely assignable miglit not the party go out into the market, 
 instead of coming to get the sanction of the society, to dispose of the pension ? — I think 
 it is very likely; but I do not know. 
 
 23445. What is the amount of the annuity ? — Originally it amounted to £40 Irish, 
 £36 18s. 6(/. present currency ; but if 1 recollect rightly the amount of the premiums pay- 
 able upon Mr. Payne's insurance, ciTected for the benefit of the society, in discharge of a 
 delit that he owed them, should be deducted, and he was only permitted to assign £33. 
 
 23446. Vv'liat sum was paid for that? — I am not certain; but I think it was £200. 
 
 23447. Of course the ages of annuitants are taken into account in estimating the 
 Talue of an annuity ? — Yes,
 
 248 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IKELAND, COMMISSIOX. 
 
 Incoipoyated Socutii 
 in Dublin, fur 
 
 promoting Einjli^h 
 
 Pt-olnslaiit Schno/\ i.i 
 
 Irthnd. 
 
 Will. Piiigeon. V,i>ci. 
 
 Rev. Richanl AvdiU. 
 
 23448. C';in vou toll us wLat the age of tlii.s ainuiitaiit was? — I have all the doeuineiits 
 relating to the .suliject. 
 
 23449. The Coiimiissioiicr.'; would wi.^li to ice the uocuuu'ut.-; relating to the trans^actioii. 
 What name was entered on the minutes of the board as that of the iierson to whom this 
 annuity was to be assigned? — My trustee, Jlr. Isaac JNIanders. 
 
 23450. \_^'ccretart/ — There is no name mentioned in the minutes?] 
 
 23451. I only speak from recollection : it is a long time since the matter occurred. 
 
 23452. Are you aware of any other assignment of pensions? — 1 carmot recollect the 
 
 names of otlier persons: but 1 tliink tliere was a man named Moorchouse who assiirned 
 1 • • • 
 
 ins annuity since. 
 
 23453. To whom ? — I do not know. 
 
 23454. Was that assignment made with the consent and ajiproval of the board ? — I 
 believe it was ; but I have no means of knowing the fact. I do not know the particulars, 
 not being interested in the transaction. 
 
 23455. You have now informed us of all the assignnients that have come rnder your 
 knowledge ? — All. 
 
 2345'.>. I believe the Commissioners will now adjourn unless Jlr. Ardill or any other 
 witness wishes to make any particular statement? — I should mention, in reply to your 
 question, was I aware of any other assignments, that a Miss Gorman left her property, in 
 the county of Kildarc, to the society, subject to certain annuities, which I purchased up); 
 and I did so without mentioning the matter to the board, because it was not necessary, 
 inasmucli as the consent of the board was not rnjuired- that thc.-e persons should sell their 
 annuitii s. 
 
 23457. They had a legal right to these annuities, which they could dispose of in the 
 market ? — They could ; they were not officers or servants belonging to the society. 
 There are other annuities granted by the society ; but the annuities leit by Miss Gorman 
 were quite independent of the control of the society ; the society is bound to pay tiiem as 
 long as the persons lived. 
 
 Rev. Bichard AvdiU further examined. 
 
 23458. On the payment of annuities there is always required by me a certificate from 
 the parochial mini-ster of the existence of the person to whom the annuity is payable. 
 
 2345U. Tlicre is one other point which I notice in looking over the accounts, the entry 
 of part payment of the curate's salary at Athlonc. Is that payment continued ? — If you 
 will observe it is granted for one year by the Incorporated Society ; as the rector of 
 Athlone, it presents lo the benefice. The income of the clergyman is very small, little 
 over £ 100 a-ycar. AVe were told he had a great deal of duty to perform; and on the 
 representation of the Bishop of Meath we allowed him half the salary of the curate. 
 
 23460. The society are, in fact, the patrons of the living? — Yes; and the income the 
 clergyman derives, 1 believe, is £130 or £140 a-year, out of which he jiays the curate. 
 
 234G1. We have no further inquiries to make at present. 
 
 i
 
 EVIDENCE. 219 . 
 
 Dublin, Ifltli NovEJinr.R, ]8r)G. Dublin. 
 
 Present: — The JIakquess of Kildare, Cliairinau ; Rev. Dr. Graves, Mr. Hughes, 
 Mr. Stephens, and Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 GeNEKAL State OE I'^DUCAIH^N in DuhI.IN. General State u) 
 
 23402. Secntririf. — 1 lio first business to-day is to e.xaiiiiiie witnesses as to the general 
 state of education in Dulilin, on which subject evidence was taken at some of tiie courts 
 held throurrhout the country. The inquiry in Dublin commenced with special cases, and 
 there was no examination on this branch of tlie inquiry. A few gentlemen who have 
 evidence to give on the subject are in attendance. 
 
 Richard Davis Wehh, Esq., aflirms and is examined. U. d. Webb. Esq. 
 
 2.34f)3. Chairman. — In what I)usiness are you engaged? — Printing. 
 
 234G4. How long have you been engaged in that business? — -I iiavo been about twenty- 
 eight years. 
 
 234(i5. Have you had opportunities of inquiring into tlic provision made for the education 
 of young men in this city, or those coming to Dublin from the country? — I have. 
 
 2346(i. Will you state what is your opinion as to their preparation for entering into 
 business? — Of young men coming ujj to Dublin? 
 
 234fi7. Vcs. — That is a (picstion tiiat would require ratlier a long answer. There is a 
 great variety in the extent of their preparations. Some are exceedingly illiterate, others 
 are tolerably well prepared in a business point of view. Another answer would be required 
 as to their literary attainments. 
 
 234(58. Do you not think there is a great connexion between their literary attainments 
 and their preparation for business? — I do not. I think many persons who succeed very 
 well in business have very limited literary acquirements indeed. 
 
 234G9- Wliat would you specify to bo the education necessary for entering into business, 
 as distinguished from literary education ? — I think that a person with very little literary 
 education, but having a little knowledge of reading and writing, may become very successful 
 in business. I have known very illiterate persons become very wealthy in Dublin. Ijy the 
 use of their wits and the knowledge I have mentioned. 
 
 23410. Are not those exceptions to the general rule ? — ^I do not think tliey are. Persons, 
 with the knowledge I have mentioned, become very successful in business. With industry 
 and energy they will often succeed, though having very limited literaiy knowledge. 
 
 23471. If you were considering the education you would give your own sons, to enable 
 them to enter into business, what kind of education would you determine upon for them ? — 
 The best answer I can give to that question, is to tell you what I did with my own sons when 
 they were young. I was very anxious to give them what I considered a tolerably good and 
 extended education. I did not intend to jiass them tlirough college; I had not an oppor- 
 tunity of doing that. I made considerable inquiry for a school at which they would get a 
 substantial foundation for a good education ; not expecting that they would be able to 
 spend many years at school, but hoping tliey would have, while there, such a foundation 
 laid as would enable tiiem to improve themselves afterwards, if they wished. Jvcither of 
 them seemed disposed to desire a classical education, and moreover I had not the opportu- 
 tunity of giving it to them; therefore I made inquiry in Dublin, and I could not find a 
 school tluit would give them such an education as I wished them to possess. I heard of a 
 lirst-rate school in Manchester, and I sent them there, and they got a fine training in a 
 short time, which I considered of very good use to them. 
 
 23472. Are you of opinion that they could possibly have got such an education in this 
 country? — Well, as tar as my inquiries went, I do not think there was any school in Dublin 
 at which they could get the training which they received at the excellent school to which 
 they went. 
 
 23473. Will you state the nature of that training? — The gentleman I sent them to 
 does not now keep a school. He is very well known in Scotland as a teacher ; and lie 
 •was for many years the principal of the- Mechanics' Institute that was established in 
 Liverpool. The school at .Manchester he handed over to another ])ersoii. He was a 
 thoi-ough scholar, and had studied education completely. I consider the character of the 
 education was not so much that he taught a great deal by rote, as that he instilled into 
 them a desire for learning, and gave them that wish to improve themselves. He put them 
 in the way of doing it. He is a good classical scholar, of very extensive education, and 
 very great acquirements. It is many years since he kept a school. My opinion as to 
 the kind of instruction he gave has never altered. 
 
 ■ 23474. That training was in a good, sound English education ? — It was in a good English 
 education ; but I think it was not so much in the amount he actually taught, as in the way- 
 be had of giving the boys the idea of improving themselves. 
 
 23475. Do you consider there is a want of such a school in this country? — Jly inquiries 
 respecting schools did not continue much after I had occasion to make them on account 
 of my own family ; but I have not yet heard of a school of such a character as that of 
 which I speak. 
 
 2347(i. Do you consider that such a school as you would send your boys to, if established 
 in this country, would be likely to be successful ? — I have not the least doubt of it ; at 
 least I cannot have any doubt of it. 
 
 23477. Can vou assign any cause for such a school not having been established in 
 
 Vol. II. ' 2 K
 
 250 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMJIISSION. 
 
 Dublin. Dublin? — None, except that such schools arc not common anywhere. I did not know of 
 
 ~r~ another such school in England ; and if I could have got a school sucli as I liked in 
 
 Education m^Dulliu. I'ubhu, I would not have sent my sons away to England ; I would liave sent them to the 
 
 E i) Webb, Esq. National Scliool, or I would have paid a higli rate for them. I did pay a high rate in 
 
 England. It was not so much the status of the school I considered, as what would qualify 
 
 them well. 
 
 2347S. You are aware, the Model schools are not intended for the education of those 
 whose parents can pay a high sum for their education? — I am aware tliey are not. I 
 supposed I could have got some parallel for such a school as I speak of in Dublin. 
 
 23479. Have you seen the advertisement announcing the opening of a day school, by the 
 Incorporated Society, for providing a good English and commercial education? — I have not. 
 234S0. Rev. Dr. Graves. — You said that some of the young men coming up from the 
 country, and seeldng employment in large sliops, were very deficient in the education 
 which it was necessary for them to have, in order to pursue their business with success? — 
 So I have been informed. I made a number of inquiries from persons who' keep some of 
 those large establishments, and they informed me that many come up to Dublin, to enter 
 into business here, who arc excessively illiterate. 
 
 23481. Did their incapacity actually amount to ignorance of reading, writing, and arith- 
 metic ? — Yes, very considerable ignorance. 
 
 23482. They had a very imperfect acquaintance with reading, writing, and arithmetic? 
 — Very imperfect. 
 
 234S3. They were not as well acquainted with those branches of instruction as the 
 pupils in the National schools ? — Not near so well. 
 
 23484. To what would you attribute that ignorance ? — Perhaps the best way to answer 
 that would be, to mention some of the things I have been told about t];em. In one large 
 establishment, to which my inquiries v.ere jiarticularly dhected, and which I think a very 
 fair sample of all the rest, there were upwards of 150 young persons employed. 1 was 
 told that some of them are exceedingly deficient, others tolerably well tauglit, and more 
 with a great desire to learn ; but a very large number were without any great desire for 
 further education. I was told the National schools in Dublin generally turned out a class 
 of boys superior to the others; I would attribute the ignorance of those who came up 
 from the country to their not having had access to good schools in their neighbourhood. 
 The parents of such children are often indifferent to their education. 
 
 23485. Do you think that persons of this class would have been disposed to attend the 
 National schools in the places from which they came up ? — Well, I suppose they would ; 
 but I would be inclined to think that a great many of them would be disposed to send 
 their children to wliat they conceived to be a more respectable school. 
 
 234SfJ. Where they would get a respectable education? — Yes. I have been told, however, 
 the National school in Dublin is not to be considered, so far as results can account for it, 
 a fair measure of the National schools in the country ; that is, that the National schools 
 in the country do not give an education equal to what is given in the Model school here. 
 
 Robert Miirrnj-, Esq. Robert Murray, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 23487. Chairman. — What office do you hold? — JIanager of the Provincial Bank of Ireland. 
 
 234S8. How long have you held that office ? — Thirty years. 
 
 234S!). Are your duties in any way connected with the selection of clerks? — They are. 
 
 23490. State in what way? — It becomes a portion of my duty to receive applications 
 for situations in the bank. Young men are taken from the ages of sixteen to twenty -two ; 
 and it becomes my duty to ascertain the education they have acquired to qualify them for 
 the duties they are likely to discharge. 
 
 23491. Arc not the .Managers of the Branch Banks selected from amongst tlie clerks? — 
 They are. 
 
 23492. There are, therefore, opportunities for clerks wlio distinguish themselves to 
 obtain ])romotiou? — A very largo nundjer of the higher offices of the bank are now filled 
 by gentlemen trained up from their youth by the bank. They have received the best 
 positions in the ostablislnnent. 
 
 23193. Will you state what is tlie nature of the examination of caiulidates for clerksliips? 
 — We first ascertain that the young person under examination lias been tauglit to write 
 well, and make figures distinctly and legibly. That he lias been taught his own language, 
 and made capable of writing it correctly. Tliat lie has been taught and understands the 
 rules of arithmetic ; not merely the initiatory rules, but the liighcr branches, such as 
 practice, vulgar and decimal fractions, the extraction of the squai-e and cube root, simple 
 and compound interest ; and that lie has not been taught to work a few questions in these 
 only, l)ut that he mider.stands the oliject and ]uu-])osc of them. I also examine a candidate 
 as to his knowledge in classics: sucli an accptirement being considered a recominendatioii, 
 but not an essential re(|uirement. 
 
 23494. You have had, therefore, a good opportunity of judging of the state of education of 
 the young men who come up for examination ? — I have had considerable opportunities. 
 
 234',)5. State what your opinion is of the previous education of these young men ? — 
 In many instances their education is exceedingly defective, and in that which is of most 
 ini])ortanc{! to the great bulk of the youth ot the country. They cannot write cornjctly 
 th(ur own language, and are (b'ficieut in thi; knowledge of arithmetic. Tiie youth of Ireland 
 who have to earn tlu'ir bread by their own exertions are, as a whole, deficient in education, 
 and particularly in lOnglisli composition and arithmetic
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 251 
 
 234!)r). From what class arc your clerks generally received? — There is no line of dcir.ar- 
 catioii drawn as to classes: they arc sons of tlie gentry, in many instances, of clergymen 
 of the Established Church, and of farmers, respectable young men, well brought up, 
 and having testimonials of exemplary good conduct while at school, and iVom their 
 various localities; but there is no lino of demarcation. They must come of respectable 
 parents, have good characters, be rcspcctaldy educated, and carry testimonials of their 
 good conduct, as far as we tliink they are required. There is one test, however, that 
 may give an idea of the ]>osition of tlie ]jarties : a junior clerk, when first entering the 
 service of the Bank, must find security, to the satisfaction of the Directors, for £l,000. 
 That is the only test I can give, by which to measure the respectability of character and 
 status of the parents. 
 
 2311)7. Will you state what proportion of the candidates arc rejected from want of the 
 necessary qualifications ? — Tiicre are not many ultimately rejected. Some may be very 
 promising, and yet deficient. When asked to write a passage to dictation, from any 
 .English author, you may see the good quahties of the young man evident; but that he 
 has not been in the practice of writing his own language so as to be able to spell correctly. 
 If you ask him to spell a word, ho will spell it off right, but write it incorrectly. If he has 
 passed through college, as some have, he will give you tlie derivation of a word correctly 
 enough ; but in the useful acquirement of spelling his own language, when writing it, he 
 fails. It would not be right to reject a youth of tliis stamp ; it is his misfortune, not his 
 fault, for he never, it would appear, had an op])Ortunity aftorded him of learning it, not 
 having been accustomed to the ordinary studies. AVe make inquiries whetlier he has a 
 sister, brother, or father, and request of them to get a paper book, and ask the father, or 
 any one of tliem, to read for him a portion of the History of England, or any good English 
 author, or a leader from the Times, daily, leaving a good wide margin for making corrections, 
 and send him back to his studies, and let him come up again in three months. They are 
 not always taught these things in the schools, except in soTnc districts, from which they 
 come wel! prepared. But the general rule as to the youth of Ireland, of the respectable 
 class, is, that they are miserably deficient in that which is required for the wear and tear 
 of every-day purposes, and for mercantile pursuits. The Government of the country have 
 found it necessary to pay a little more attention than before to those who were intended 
 for the military prof('S.sion, for commissions in Her JIajesty's service; for however well 
 qualified gentlemen might have been otherwise, they were found to be deficient in their 
 education in the elementary branches. This applies also to those intended for mercantile 
 pursuits, where it is even now a disadvantage. 
 
 23498. Rev. Br. Graves. — Will you mention the districts you excepted ? — I have seen 
 some well prepared men from Belfast, and there is a school at Clonmel where the teacher 
 appears to give attention to the needful qualifications I have noticed, and one at Santrj', 
 Dublin. 
 
 23499. Is his name Canavan? — I dare say it is; but I cannot say with certainty. I have 
 seen youths come well prepared from that place. You will meet a boy who has read conic 
 sections, and is prepared to demonstrate a proposition in Euclid, and is well read in the 
 classics, and yet he cannot write correctly to dictation, nor work a question in proportion. 
 
 23500. At what age do the young men, generally, come to you to be examined? — From 
 sixteen and eighteen up to twenty-two. j\Iy observations do not apply to the first of these 
 ages only. They come sometimes after they have read the whole college course. 
 
 23501. But you state distinctly that the great majority of those young men cannot write 
 correctly from dictation ? — A very large number of them cannot. 
 
 23502. None of them are younger than si.xteen ? — None are younger than in their 
 seventeenth year. I understand Trinity College is about to make arithmetic and the 
 English language a part of the entrance course. If boys were rejected there for being 
 deficient in a knowledge of arithmetic, and Knghsh composition, by not being able to spell 
 and write their own language correctly, it would be of more use in improving education 
 than any things I know of. 
 
 23503. Arithmetic is a part of the entrance course ? — It may have lately become so, 
 and the rule cannot be too strictly enforced. 
 
 23504. Mr. Stephens. — The sub,stance of your complaint is, that the English language 
 is not taught correctly? — I do not say the English language is not correctly taught ; but I 
 am prepared to say they do not teach the pupils to write it correctly from dictation. I found 
 some of them very well prepared, where the national schoolmaster in the neighbourhood 
 has been got to teach them at their own home. These were young men who have attended 
 respectable schools, and whose parents were in afiluence, but they were not taught arith- 
 metic sufficiently well, and writing to dictation. 
 
 23505. Nor writing correctly from dictation? — Yes. 
 
 2350o. I suppose a number of young men are required for commercial pursuits wlio can 
 write correctly from dictation ? — Yes. We require them. 
 
 23507. Is there a great want of that branch of instruction? — Yes. 
 
 23508. Can you account why it is that a proprietary school is not established in Dubhn 
 — such schools answer very well at Kensington, Yarmouth, Portsmouth, and various other 
 places in England? — There are some places too in Scotland as well as in England, where 
 such schools exist, but there are vast difficulties in the way of establishing them in Ireland. 
 
 23509. What are the vast difficulties ? — The very matters that beset education in Ireland 
 with so much difficulty. 
 
 23510. What are those difficulties? — A proprietary school must be earned on by a set 
 of governors. I would not like to take up the mattei-, and become one interested in such 
 
 Vol.. II. 2 K 2 
 
 DunwK. 
 
 Ocjtf.riil State ttf 
 Education in Uulilin. 
 
 IJobert Murray, E»q.
 
 252 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 General State of 
 Education in Dublin. 
 
 Robert Murray, Esq. 
 
 Alex. Thorn, Esq. 
 
 a school, there are so many elements still alive — but, I hope, gradually dying away — of 
 disunion. I cannot account for the non-establishment of such schools, except Ijy stating 
 what is notorious, and I need not go into these matters here. I may state this, that I do 
 not know how we could easily bring it about to have all classes and persuasions sitting on 
 the same forms for educational purposes. 
 
 235 11. Are not the Protestants sufficiently numerous in Dublin to establish a proprietary 
 school ? — I am not prepared to say they are not. 
 
 23512. If it would breed disunion to have Protestants and Roman Catholics together, 
 what is the objection against having proprietary schools for each religious persuasion ? — I 
 do not know that there is any objection. I would much rather see them mixed in schools; 
 but, I believe, the difficulty [ have stated is really the substantial cause why we liave not 
 projjrictary schools, where they could be governed by a set of laymen, and where school- 
 masters, or teachers, or whatever name you may please to give them, would make teaching 
 tlieir profession, and not regard it, as is sometimes the case, as a make-way only. 
 
 23513. Do you make any distinction with respect to the admission of clerks into your 
 bank, as to whether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants ? — I never ask the question. 
 My business is to take the best man I can get, irrespectiye of religious persuasion. 
 
 23514. Chairman. — Have you any suggestions to offer as to the manner of supplying 
 the deficiencies which exist in tlie education of young men ? — 1 think the fact of Trinity 
 College having made arithmetic a portion of the entrance examination, must liave a very 
 beneficial eiTect upon education. I do not know how. exactly, to lay down any rule for it. It 
 must depend upon the teachers. Arithmetic is a branch of education very much neglected, 
 even in what are called public or endowed schools. Classics arc cultivated with greater 
 assiduity than the more useful portions of education. But a large number of youths go to 
 Trinity College who are intended for mercantile pursuits, and, I think, the fact of arith- 
 metic having been made a portion of the entrance examination, must, neccss-arily, have a 
 beneficial effect upon all secondary schools. I was not aware that the rule was strictly 
 enforced ; I am glad to hear it is. it is a great blessing that it has been made a portion 
 of the entrance examination. 
 
 23515. liev. Dr. Graves. — You state that in your examination for clerkships in the 
 bank, you gave young men an opportunity of sliowing whether they possessed any 
 acquaintance with Greek and Latin "? — Yes. \Vc ask them what books they liavc read, and 
 ask them a few derivations : but 1 wish to remark, that is considered more a further recom- 
 mendation, than as essentially necessary. 
 
 2351(5. As a test of general culture, rather than for the purpose of ascertaining whether 
 they knew the classics ? — Yes, and we ask them questions in French ; but these things are 
 not considered essentially necessary. Nobody, however, doubts the value and importance 
 of a classical education, and a knowledge of the living languages in aiterlife. 
 
 23517. Are history and geography parts of the course of examination ? — They are. 
 
 Alexander Thorn, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 23518. Chairman. — Are you the author of the Irish Directory? — I am. 
 
 2:?519. You arc also printer to Her Majesty's public departments in Ireland? — I am. 
 
 23520. You have been est.iblisiiod in Dublin for some years? — vSince 1814. 
 
 23521. Have yon a large number of persons in your employment ? — A very considerable 
 number. 
 
 23522. Have you formed any opinion as to the provision there is for the education of the 
 middle classes in Dublin ? — I have formed a very unfavourable opinion of it. 
 
 23523. Is it necessary that the young men in your employment should have received a 
 certain amount of education ? — No doubt of it. To a certain extent tliey must l,e prcttj' 
 well educated to make good compositors. 
 
 23524. State what amount of education is necessary? — They must 1)C jjretty good 
 English scholars, and it is desirable they should know a little of Latin and French ; 
 but the majority do not possess tiiat knowledge. They must have a good I'Inglish education 
 to be good compositoi's. 
 
 2 1525. At what age do you first employ young men ? — To be compositors, tlioy are 
 taken in about fourteen, so that they are of age when thi-y have served their seven years' 
 apprenticeship. 
 
 23526. Where do tlie young men in your employment usually receive tlair education? 
 — I could not exactly say that. At the ordinary schools of the city. 
 
 23.027. Arc they mostly natives of Dublin ? — Yes. 
 
 2352^*. Have you any young men from Scotland in your employment? — Very few. I 
 do not suppose tlierc are half a dozen of Scotchmen in tlie whole lionse. 
 
 23529. Can you state from your experience that tlic education the young men from 
 Scotland have received is better tlian that whicli Irishmen get? — I certaiidy tliink so. 
 
 23530. Can you state wiiere the young men from Scotland have received tlieir education? 
 — I have never made any inquiries as to that ; but I presume in tlie common schools 
 there. 'I'hcre is a parish school in every parish in Scotland, and a very fair education is 
 given in them. 
 
 23531. liev. Dr. Graves. — Is Latin taught in the parish schools? — Yes. Where I was 
 I'rom. a small fishing village, there was a school in which they taught it. 
 
 23532. The High School of Edinburgh is intended to furnish education to those persons 
 who arc entering into commercial life, as well as to those who seek admission to the 
 learned professions? — It is. I was there myself about 1812 or 1813 for a few years. 
 
 23533. Is Latin an indispensable part of the course for all the pupils there? — Yes.
 
 EVIDENCE. 253 
 
 23534. It is not subject to tlio wish of the parents wlio intend their sons for commercial Di uhk. 
 pursuits ? — No. The course of education in the liieh School is very much improved since ^. TZ. . ^ 
 
 I was there. Modern languages arc tauglit. Edmntiim in Dublin. 
 
 23535. Have tlicy made any modern language an indispensable jiart of the course ? — I aicx. Tliom, Esq. 
 should suppose tlicy have. 
 
 23536. Have they not also made very considerable improvements in tho course of 
 English instruction ? — They have. 
 
 23537- Ucsidos the High Scliool, there is another scliool in which instruction of the 
 same kind is given in I'Alinhurgh ? — 1 think the Circus-place 8cho(d. I am not sure. It 
 is sometliing similar to the Higli School. It is a ])roprietary school. 
 
 23538. Is it carried on with success? — Decidedly. 
 
 2353!). is the system of instruction generally the same ? — Yes. 
 
 23540. Instruction being given to all in Latin ? — Decidedly ; Latin is taught. 
 
 23541. And special attention ])aid to the I'higlish instruction? — Yes. 
 
 2354 2. Do you think it would be j>ossible to organize a proprietary school of tho same 
 kind in Dublin ? — I believe it has been attempted, but proper steps have never been taken. 
 The difliculties stated by Mr. iMurray are the principal reasons why they do not succeed. 
 
 23543. Have you seen, recently, an advertisement announcing the opening, by the Incor- 
 porated Society, of a day school of such a nature as you dcscrii)c ? — Yes. 
 
 23544. Does that promise such an education as you think would be useful for persons 
 of the middle class intended for commercial life? — There is an idea that thei'c is a great 
 deal of sectarianism about it. 
 
 23545. I ask only as to the nature of the instruction? — I did not pay sufKcient attention 
 to the 2)ros])ectus to be able to answer your question. 
 
 23546. What circumstances ought to be kept in view by persons establishing an insti- 
 tution of that kind in Dublin wliich would be generally useful? — I think the plan of the 
 Scotch schools is the best ; either the Circus School or the High School of Edinburgh. 
 
 23547. ]">o yon think schools of that kind might be established here without diiliculty 
 arising from the dilierence of religious denominations? — 1 do. The Presbyterian body 
 had two or three proprietary schools here, but none of them ever succeeded. 
 
 23548. Chainiian. — Have you any suggestion yovx would wish to make on the subject ? 
 — ]S'o, my Lord. 
 
 The Commissioners of Educ.\tion in Ireland, Glare-street, Dublin. ^'"; <'«'«''''■■•;«'''«« -^ 
 
 of Jiancaiton m 
 
 23549- Secretary.— 'I\\e next business to be brought before the Commissioners is a ^'■elami^^^ckn-.sircct, 
 
 matter that stood over from the public courts that were held in the month of December tv,„„„„* „ 
 .,,,,. ,. . .. '■ . ,, .. r-iii • ■ r\^ Documentary 
 
 last in Dublin, making inquiries res2)ecting the Commissioners ot Lducation in Clare-street, Kvidenci'- 
 
 and the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith. Messrs- M'Causland and 
 Eetherston have been for many years, and are, the solicitors to these Boards; and 
 Mr. Eethcr.ston, tlie acting partner of the firm was summoned to be examined. It 
 appeared, however, in the course of the examination of Dr. Kyle, the secretary to the Clare- 
 street Board, that in the accounts of that Board there was no entry for law costs for thirteen 
 years. On inquiiy it was found that the law costs had not been furnished, and the Com- 
 missioners decided upon postponing the examination of Mr. Eetherston until the costs 
 were furnished. They made an order on the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, to 
 require their solicitor to furnish their law costs, and that they should then be furnished 
 to this Commission. Accordingly, about .July last, Messrs. M'Causland and Eetherston 
 sent in their Ijills of costs to the Clare street Board, and they were afterwards obtained 
 from that Board by this Commission. In ihese costs there was one class of items connected 
 with tho management of one of the estates — the Duiigannon School Estate — and the costs, 
 so far as they related to the management of the estates, were referred to Mr. Murland, who 
 was ap])ointcd by tlic Lord Lieutenant to inspect the various estates of schools of public 
 foundation in Ireland, comprised in the inquiry of this Commission, and to report to the 
 Commissioners thereon. 
 
 23550. The following is an extract from the Inspector's report on the Dungannon Koyal 
 School Estate, being the passage relating to law costs : — 
 
 "Law Costs. — Since writing the above report, the bills of costs furnished to the Com- 
 missioners of Education in Ireland, by their solicitors, ^lessrs. M'Causland and Eetherston, 
 have been forwarded to me, and I was requested ' to take them into consideration when 
 making my rcjjort, so far as they relate to the estates of the Commissioners.' 
 
 " On looking into these bills of costs, I found that the sum of £444 Gs. 4d. is charged 
 for business done for the Dungannon Estate, from March, 1843, to April, 1853, and nearly 
 the whole of this amount is charged for preparing notices to quit; being for each year 
 notices were served about £85 more than the agent's entire remuneration. 
 
 " I -wrote to ^[r. Waiin for an explanation of this large and extraordinary expenditure, 
 and I beg to send herewith copies of my letter and his reply. 
 
 " I do not think the reason he assigns for serving notices to quit so frequently on all the 
 tenants is satisfactory. Notice should only have been served on defaulters. When notices 
 were necessary, it is plain that the proper course would have been to have had one form 
 settled by the solicitors, and the others printed, and filled uj) in the agent's office. In 
 this way the costs would not have been more than a few shillings instead of several hundred 
 Xiounds.
 
 254 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 TTie Commissioners 
 
 nf Educalinn in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-itrccl, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Documentarj' 
 Evidence. 
 
 G. Fetherston, 1'"sq. 
 
 IS charged for business done for the 
 
 " Mr. Wann says that ' he believed the late Mr. Blactcr was informed that the solicitors 
 of the Board were the proper parties to prepare notices to quit.' How this may be I have 
 no means of ascertaining. 
 
 " It must be admitted that the estate has not been charged with any local law costs." 
 
 Correspondence as to Law Costs Copy Letter to Mr. Wann. 
 
 "Mountjoy-place, Dublin, 4th October, 1856. 
 
 " Dear Sir, — The bill of costs of Jlcssrs. M'Causland and Fetherston, for law business 
 done in connexion with the Royal School Estates, has been sent to mo by Her Majesty's 
 Commissioners, for my consideration when making my report. , 
 
 " And I observe tlaat tlie sum of £444 G.s. Ad. 
 Dungannon Estate from March, 1843, to .\pril. 1853. 
 
 " Nearly the whole of this amount is charged for preparing notices to quit. The sum 
 of 5s. is charged for each notice and copy ; and notices appear to have been prepared for 
 every tenant, or nearly so, in the years 1843, 1845, 1847. 1849, and 1851. I have not met 
 with any thing of this land before, and will feel obliged if you will let me know svhy it was 
 necessary to serve notices on every tenant so frequently. 
 
 " If it were necessary, it seems to njc that one notice must have been a copy for all the 
 others ; and one having been prepared by the sohcitors, a common clerk could have prepared 
 the rest at a trifling cost, instead of at the enormous cost of upwards of £400. I presume there 
 is not so much expense incurred in this matter on the other estates under your management. 
 
 '■ As I have to send in mj' report nqyj soon, I will thank you to favour me with some 
 explanation on this subject at your earliest convenience. 
 
 " I remain, dear Sir, yoiu's faithfully, 
 
 'I William Wann, Esq." " James W. Mukland. 
 
 Copy Mr. AV.\nn's Answer. 
 
 " Markethill, 6th October, 1856. 
 
 " Dear Sir, — Yours of the 4th in.stant I have duly received, relative to the service of 
 notices to quit on the Dungannon School Estate tenants. In 1846 I was entrusted with the 
 agency of that property, previous to which I was fully aware, from my personal knowledge 
 of the tenants, whilst assisting the late Mr. Blacker, that unless they felt there was perfect 
 and almost immediate control over them, no certainty of rent paying could be calculated 
 on ; and as times did not improve about the period referred to, I did not conceive it prudent 
 to discontinue a plan, the efficacy of which I had known so well ; and by observing a strict 
 and firm determination to have punctuality established (when I knew there was means to 
 do so), the result has been of late, almost a universal attendance to pay rent on the days 
 I appoint for that purpose. Seeing these facts, the Commissioners of Education desired 
 me to discontinue the practice of serving notices to quit, save on such of the tenants as 
 might appear refractory. 
 
 •■■In further replying to your letter as to 'the bill of costs' for these notices, I beg to 
 say that I was perfectly unacquainted with their extent or nature until I received your 
 letter yesterday morning, the payment of them not liaving passed tlu-ough my hands. The 
 late Mr. Blacker, I believe, was informed that the sohcitors of the Board were the proper 
 parties to supply tlio notices; and I followed his example, furnished a list of the tenants to 
 Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston, received from them the notices ready for my signature, 
 and acknowledged their receipt. 
 
 " I think, taking my accounts altogether, it will be discovered that the estate has not 
 been m.ade chargeable for any local law costs. When I had to take proceedings, I made 
 the defaulting party pay the costs. 
 
 " I am, dear Sir, very faithfully, your obedient servant, 
 
 "James W. Murland, Esq., Mountjoy-place, Dublin.'' " William Wann. 
 
 Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 23551. Chairman. — What office do you hold in connexion with tlie Commissioners of 
 Education ? — I am their solicitor. 
 
 23552. llow long liave you licld that office? — As well as I recollect, from .about 1827 
 or 1828. 
 
 23553. Do you hold the same situation in connexion with tlie Board of Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith's Schools ? — I do. 
 
 23554. How long have you held that situation? — Some two or three years after tlie other. 
 23.555. Do you hold the same situation in connexion wirli any otlier cliaritable Board in 
 
 Dublin ? — Yes, the Commissioners of Cliaritable Donations and Bequests for Ireland. 
 
 23556. Mr. Stephens. — Do you liold the situation of solicitor to the Commissioners of 
 Education as an officer of tlieir Board ? — I think not. 1 am tlicir solicitor to do their law 
 business. 
 
 23557. Has it not been your practice to attend regularly every meeting of the Board 
 witliout being specially summoned ? — Never. 
 
 23558. Are you specially summoned to every Board ? — Yes. 
 
 23559. Do you receive a summons from tlie secretary for every Board meeting? — I do. 
 
 23560. Do you charge for your attendance ? — 1 do. 
 
 23561. Are you aware what fund ha.s been charged with the payment for your attend- 
 ance ? — No. 
 
 23562. What are your duties at the Board? — Wlien I attend the Board, 1 give them 
 any information concerning their law bu.sines8that may be required. I very frequently take 
 part in discussions tliat are not connected with law business when 1 am asked for advice.
 
 EVIDENCE. 255 
 
 235()3. Is the Board always at law ? — Oh no, ccrtanily not. ))iibun. 
 
 235G4. Why do you attend when tlicvc is no law business ?— Because I am summoned. ^.^^^ c«^ss»n<Tx 
 
 23565. When tliere is no law business, what do you do? — Nothing. ^ of E,i„miwnin 
 
 23506. How often has it occnrnnl, during the last tu-clvo months, that you had nothing Irclmd, Chn-stnui, 
 to do at the Board tliongli regularly .summoned ?— AVhich lioai'd. Dub m. 
 
 235(37. The Counuissioners of I'Mucation. We will confine ourselves to tliat Board for ^'- r<-tl>erston, tsq. 
 the present? — Well, 1 sliould say that fur tlie last twelve months at more than one half of 
 the meetings I had notliing to do. 
 
 23.31)8. May I take that as an average of the business you transacted at the meetings of 
 the Board during the time you have been their solicitor ? — Well, during the bad times, as 
 wo call them in Ireland. 1S4(J and 1847, there was a great deal more law, from complaints 
 of tenants not paying their rents, and different tilings about which I was frequt-ntly com- 
 municated with as to the best means of getting the rents without undue pressure. 
 
 23.0()9. How many years liave you been solicitor to the Commissioners of Education ? — 
 i slundd tliinlc since 1827 or 1828. 
 
 23.370. During the last thirty years have you attended every meeting of the Board? — I 
 cannot say that, but I have attended a great many of them. 
 
 23.571. Were you summoned to every meeting? — I believe so. 
 
 2.5512. May I take it as the average, that during thirty years at half tlic meetings you 
 had no law business to attend to ? — 1 tliink you may. 
 
 23573. What do you charge for your attendance ? — My bill is there. [Bill of Costs is 
 handed to witness]. It seems to mc to depend upon the duration of the attendance. 
 
 23574. Of course it is never less than 13s. Ad. ? — Yes. 
 
 23575. What is the maximum ? 
 
 1!357G. \_Secretarii. — On examining the bill of costs, I find a charge of Gs- 8d. for 
 attending when the members did not attend to form a board. There is 13.s. 4(1. for an 
 hour. There is a charge of £1, and of £l \s. 8d., and £l 8s. 10c/., and on a very long 
 sitting there is as high as £1 13s. 4d.'] 
 
 23577. Mr. Stephens.— Then the maximimi has been £l 13s. id. Will it satisfy you to 
 take £l as the average? — I should think that is it. 
 
 23578. How many boards arc generally held during the year ? — I think it is once a 
 montli. The secretary Vi-ill tell you that much better than I can. 
 
 23579. Who has charge of tlic title-deeds of the schools vested in the Board? — I have 
 some of them. 
 
 23580. Where are the other deeds? — I should say, with the Board. 
 
 2358 1 . What title-deeds have you in your possession? — I could not enumerate them. We 
 have furnislied some that you called for ; some which I had not come upon for twenty years. 
 
 23582. Did we receive the originals or copies ? — Copies, certainly, of late. 
 
 23583. Are there any originals? — I am not aware. Dr. Hancock will tell you. What- 
 ever you sent for we gave. 
 
 235S4. Do you know whether some of the title-deeds of the schools vested in the Board 
 have not been lost ? — I do not. Not since I was connected with the Board. I have very 
 little occasion to refer to them. 
 
 23585. Have any been lost during the last thirty years? — I am aware none have been 
 lost that came into our custody. 
 
 2358G. Have you any schedule of the deeds ? — No ; there is a fire-proof press, lined with 
 sheet iron, for them. 
 
 23587. Having been the law adviser of the Board for nearly thirty years, I wish to ask 
 you one or two questions with respect to their Statutes. I believe the Statutes of the 53rd 
 Geo. HI., cap. 107, and the 3rd of Goo. IV., cap. 79, are the governing Statutes of the 
 Commissioners of Education ? — I believe they arc. 
 
 23588. Be so kind as to turn to the 12th section of the 53rd Geo. III., cap. 107?— 1 
 have done so. 
 
 235S9. I want you to give me the definition of tlic word " residue" in the 12th section. 
 You wdl perceive, that under that section the Commissioners may, out of issues and profits 
 of their real and personal estate, first pay the schoolmaster and under masters ; secondly, 
 purchase, build, repair, and furnish schoolhouscs ; and thirdly, with the residue of such 
 issues and profits, support and maintain tlic free scholars. Is that a correct abstract of the 
 section ? — I think so. 
 
 23590. Will you also turn to the 3rd of Geo. IV., cap. 79, section 8, because that section 
 must be construed in connexion with the 12tli section of the 53rd Geo. III., cap. 107? — 
 I have got it. 
 
 23591. You will find from the marginal note, tliat tlie surplus of tlic funds of any one 
 of the free schools of Armagli, Dungannon, Enniskillen, &c., may be applied in the 
 improvement of any other of such schools? — Yes. 
 
 23592. Is it not provided in tliat section, '•' that the residue of any of the funds of the 
 
 said schools respectively, shall be applied in the supporting of free scholars in sucli scliools , 
 
 respectively, and to the endowment of exhibitions in Trinity College," Does not the 
 word " I'csidue" occur again towards the end of the section ? — Yes. 
 
 23593. Does the word " residue" mean the cash residue, or does it mean the residue 
 after having ascertained the assets and liabilities of the chaiity. For instance, suppose 
 that you have £100 in cash in your banker's hands, and that you owe £500, would there 
 be a " residue?" — There would be a residue of debts. 
 
 23594. Would there be a cash residue ? — I conceive not.
 
 256 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 7'Ae Cominissiontrs 
 
 vf Education in 
 
 Irelunit, Cliire'Strfet, 
 
 Duhlin. 
 
 G. Fetherston. E?q. 
 
 23505. That being- so, is it not clear that for carrying out the objects of the charity, 
 as defined in the 53rd Geo. III., cap. 107, and in the 3rd Geo. IV., cap. 79, the accounts 
 shoukl be yearly balanced? — I think they ought. 
 
 23596. Until the accounts were balanced, would it not be utterly impossible to ascertain 
 the residue ? — Yes. 
 
 23597. You will find, on reference to the bills of costs before you, 1st vol., page 214, 
 that you have charged for an attendance on the Board on the 24tli of .July, 1829 ?— Yes. 
 
 23598. Were you in attendance on the 24th of July, 1829 ? — It appears so. 
 
 23599. There is now before you the minute book in which the proceedings of the 24th 
 of July, 1829, are recorded. IJead the order made that day as to the solicitor? — " That 
 the solicitors of the Board bo directed to furnisli to tlie secretary, on or before the first 
 Friday in Michaelmas Term in every year their bills of costs." 
 
 23600. Are you aware whether that minute was ever rescinded ? — I have no recollection 
 that it ever was. 
 
 23601. Were there any bills of costs furnished between November, 1S31, and October, 
 1834 ? — I know they were not furnished pursuant to that order. 
 
 23602. I have examined tlie books, and the state of facts appears to me to be as follows — 
 (you can correct me if 1 am wrong) : — no bills of costs were furnislied from November, 1 S3 1 , 
 to October, 1834, tliree j-ears ; from October. 1834, to October. 1S37, three years; from 
 October, 1837, to October, 18.38, one year; from October, 183S, to October, 1841, three 
 yeai's ; and from August, 1842, to 7V])ril, 1856, nearly fourteen years. Is that a correct 
 statement '? — 1 am quite sure you are right. 
 
 23603. I cannot find any trace of your accounts between October. 1841, and August, 
 1842 : but you may liave sent in your account? — I may liave found it dillicult to get the 
 accounts made up as often as 1 could wisli. Then the bad years came on, and interfered 
 more with us. 
 
 23604. From the rental book of the Dungannon School Estate, it appears that for twenty 
 years, upon a rental of about £1,440, including the famine years, witii the exception of 
 1847, when there was £517 due, which has been since worked oif, the arrears never 
 exceeded £441, being less than one-third of tlio rental. It appears that from 1834 to 
 1851, the sum of £750 has been charged for merely filling up notices to quit for tlie tenants 
 upon the estate ; and in consequence of such a state of facts, the Commissioners wish to 
 have the fullest inquiry ; and, therefore, I propose to take you, step by step, througli all 
 the documentary evidence, namely, the solicitors' bills of costs, the minute books, and the 
 rental book, connnencing from 1834, down to the present time. I will first direct your 
 attention to a letter written in JMarcJi, 1834, from ilr. Blacker to the secretary of the Board. 
 
 231)05. \_Secretary. — This is from the document book of the Clare-street Board, in which 
 letters addressed to the Secretary are copied. Tlie letter is from Mr. William Blacker, at 
 the time agent for the Dungannon School Estate, to William C. Quinn, wlio was secretary 
 of the Board innnediately preceding Dr. Kyle. The letter is a long one, relating to other 
 matters, and then comes this postscript: — 
 
 " I send up some notices to quit, which 1 bad printed, not being aware that you would 
 have to sign them, and tliat they were to be filled up by Mr. Fetlierston. If you will 
 have the goodness to ascertain that he approves of the form (which lias been settled by 
 counsel), you miglit sign them, and I would supply him with instructions with regard to 
 the names next week, on my return from the school-lands." 
 
 23606. Tlie next is a letter from ]\Ir. (}uinn,. the Secretary, addressed to IMcssrs. 
 M' Causland and Fetherston. Mr. Blacker's letter is not dated, but it is cpiite obvious from 
 the one I am about to read that it was written immediatclv jircceding this : — 
 
 " 29th March, 1834. 
 
 " Dear Sir, — The accompanying statistics have been sent to me by Mr. Blacker ; and he 
 writes. ' I send up some notices to (piit, which 1 had ]n-iuted, not being aware that you 
 would have to sign them, and that they were to be filled up by .Mr. Ketherston. If you 
 will have the goodness to ascertain that ho approves of the form (which has been settled 
 by counsel), you might sign them, and I would sujiply him with iiistrnctiniis with regard 
 to the names next week, on my return from the school-lands.' You will, therefore, have 
 the goodness to do what is necessary in the matter. 
 
 ■• I am. Sir, &c., 
 
 " Messrs. M'Cau.sland and Fetherston." 
 
 23607. The ne.xt is a copy of a letter, signed G. Fetherston, and addressed to ilr. (^)uinn : — 
 
 "Dublin, 1st April, 1834, Offices, 36, Lower Ormond-quay. 
 
 "]^Iy Di:.\r SiH, I believe the only matter in which Mr. Blacker cannot com])reliond 
 
 the regulations of the lioard, is in relation to service of notices to quit on each anniversary 
 of the coining of the estate into possession of tiie Board. 1 have fully ex|)lained it to him. 
 Tlio rule is a very sound one; but as Mr. Blacker is not an ordinary agent, we must go as 
 far as we can to assist him ; and I believe tiic last order made by the Board will warrant 
 our duing what will satisfy Jiim — namely, sending him down notices to quit for every 
 tenant oirthc estate. If yoii think so, pray let me have the last rent-mils furnished by him, 
 that 1 may, from them, learn the naiiu^s of the tenants, and the denomiMatioiis of land held 
 by each. If you do not think the last order warrants such a wholesale proceeding, I 
 siiould suppose we miglit wait for a Board, as service will do before the 1st of May. 
 
 " Yours, my dear Sir, very truly, 
 
 " William C. Quinn, Esq." " (i- Fetheuston.
 
 EVIDENCE. 257 
 
 23608. Mr. Stephens. — Is it tlic ordinary practice in tliis country to send notices to i>ubi,i.s. 
 quit to be filled up bv solicitors ?— It is. 
 
 23U09. Is It not tbe dnty of an a-ent to fill up sncl. notices?— I have never considered 'l}E7uc!!ttnT 
 it so, more especially in tlie case of the Commissioners of I'^ducation, for I found inva- Inia,„t ciun^-sinxt. 
 riably the agents maile a mistake in giving them their proper title, sometimes calling them DuUin. 
 
 " The (Jonnnissioners of Education." I\ly recollection is, that several failures took jjlace ^'- I'ethcrfton, F.*-<|. 
 from their not saying " Commissioners of Education in Ireland." Some trifling omissions 
 of that kind were made ; but, be that as it may, it was by an order of the IJoard we acted. 
 
 2.'3(jl0. W'as ]\Ir. lilacker a very extensive agent? — -lie was. 
 
 23G11. Did you know him? — Very well. 
 
 23012. Have you the slightest doubt but that Mr. ]]lackcr could have fdlcd up notices 
 to quit as accurately as yourself? — IS'ot the least doubt of it. 
 
 23613. It appears that the forms wore settled by counsel? — So he stated; by som(} 
 other counsel, not the counsel to the Hoard. 
 
 23614. But there is no technicality or diiliculty in a notice to quit ? — No difficulty. 
 
 23615. There is nothing but putting in the names of the lands and the tenants ?-- Yes, 
 and to ascertain the commencement of their tenancy. 
 
 2;i()lG. I'licn. if I understand you aright, tbe I'oard intrusted you to do so in opposition to 
 Jlr. Blackcr's opinion ? — Yes. But I would hardly say it was in ojjposition to his opinion. 
 I would not go that far. 
 
 23617. Did not Mr. Blacker think the ])rinted notices were suflicient? — AYell, I presume 
 he did, by his sending them up for a])probatiun. 
 
 2 56 IS. Is it the usual practice in this country, in the management of large properties, 
 for solicitors to ])repare notices to quit, to liU them up, and then send tliem down to 
 the agent ? — I cannot imdertakc to answer for the general practice as to largo proper- 
 ties, but it is the practice in certainly most of the cases, if not all, that came under my 
 knowledge. It may bo otherwise in a great many other cases. I got frequently, from 
 ])rivate clients, instructions to do so. 
 
 23619- Did not Jlr. Blacker send up the printed notices? — I have no doubt of it, but 1 
 have no recollection of it. 
 
 23620. But you have no doubt that Mr. lilacker could have done the business just as 
 well? — I have not the .slightest doubt of it. 
 
 23621. However, whatever you have done in respect of the notices to quit, has been 
 done in consequence of orders from the Board ? — Certainly, upon orders of the Boai'd. 
 
 23622. Turn to Vol. II. of the Solicitor-s' Bills of Costs, page 39, 16th April, 1834, I 
 think you will find there that there were notices to quit filled up for 342 tenants, at a cost 
 of £l 19 14.<;., being at the rate of Is. per tenant? — I see the cost down. 
 
 23623. At a Board held on the 17th of April, 1834, a minute was made in the Minute 
 Book stating there was read "a letter of the 1st inst., from Messrs. iM'Cau.sland and 
 Fetherstou, on the subject of the notices to quit. Eesolved — That the notices required 
 by Mr. Blacker be transmitted to him." At page 123-4 of the Solicitors' Bills of Costs, you 
 will find thci-e are charges for attendance of solicitor at sessions about notices to quit, 
 making, in the aggi'cgatc, £17 ? — Yes. 
 
 23624. Would not that expense have been avoided if Mr. Blacker, the agent, had served 
 the notices ? — Yes ; and, accordingly, a form was afterwards made for the agent. 
 
 23625. The Secretary will now read a letter of March, 1835, from Jlr. Blacker, com- 
 plaining that the business of filling up the notices to quit by the solicitors, in 1834, had not 
 been proporlv done. 
 
 23626. [iVcrcMr;/.— The letter is dated Mavkethill, 14th March. 1835. It is addres.sed 
 to AVilliam C Kyle, Esq: — 
 
 •' Agreeable to the practice which I have before been obliged to adopt, I have served 
 ejectment processes on the persons in the annexed list, tenants upon the Dungannon 
 School lauds; but, as formerly, I have no doubt that it will be unnecessary to proceed 
 to turn any of them out, unless, perhaps, one, who has gone to live in Bclfist. but still 
 preserves the possession of one of the small farms. The tenants being all at will, and of 
 such a description that it is absolutely necessary the p^wer of toirning them out should be 
 kept up, notices to quit ought to be immediately prepared, and sent down, so that they 
 may be served in proper time. Last year enough of cojiies were not provided, and of 
 course a few were not served, the bad effects of which I have experienced. In other 
 estates I prepare and sign these notices mysel.f, but the Board last year wished Messrs. 
 Fetherstou and M'Causland to do them, and have them signed by their secretary ; and 
 if that is still their wish, orders should be forthwith given to those gentlemen on the 
 subject. There is great inconvenience attending the bringing iiroof down specially to the 
 sessions of the secretary's appointment and signature, which the attorney here tells me is 
 absolutely necessary according to the way the notices are directed to be issued by the 
 Board. It occurs to me that the sessions' attorney, Mr. Little, might be shown your 
 appointment and signature, so that he could prove each without calling on Messrs. 
 M'Causland and Co. to go to the inconvenience of attending. 
 
 " I am. Sir, &c., 
 
 " William Blacker." 
 
 23627. Jlr. Stfphens.— in Vol. V. of the Minute Book, page 207, under date of 
 March 20th, 1835, there is the following minute — [The minute is read as follows] : — - 
 
 "A letter from Mr. Blacker, agent to the Dungannon Estate, dated March 14th, 1835, 
 Vol. IL 2 L
 
 258 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin-. 
 
 The Commi}i:'ioiiers 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Iivlnnd. ('/r.)T-s(r<■p^ 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 G. Fethorston. Esq. 
 
 stating the great inconTenience and expense of bringing proof of the secretary's appoint- 
 ment and signature, in the case of the Governors against tlic tenants, and asking permis- 
 sion to serve notices to quit, ha^'ing been read, ordered — That the secretary inform Mr. 
 Blacker that, if necessary, the notices may be served ; that the secretary send Mr. Blacker 
 a copy of the order relative to notices to quit : and that ho do state to Mr. Blacker, that 
 the Board perfectly concur with him in the inutility of the expense of bringing down wit- 
 nesses to prove the secretarj-'s appointment ; and direct Mr. Blacker to communicate with 
 the solicitors to the Board, who will instruct Mr. Blacker how to proceed, so as to avoid 
 and prevent the recurrence of such expense, and render such proceeding, in future, 
 unnecessary.'' 
 
 23628. Mr. Stephens. — The soHcitors were, of coiu-se, present at that meeting. In 
 Vol. II. of the Solicitors' Bills of Costs, page 125, March 28th, 1835, there is a charge of 
 £5 8s. for filling up notices to quit for sixty-eight tenants on six townlands, being at the 
 rate of 5s. a townland, lO*-. for a general draft notice, and Is. a tenant ? — I am certain that 
 is quite correct. 
 
 23629. At page 126-7, April 16th, 1835, there is a charge of £17 I3s. for notices to 
 quit, for 323 tenants on six townlands ? — I have very little doubt the tot is as you say. 
 
 23G30. That is at 5s. a townland, and Is. a tenant? — Yes. 
 
 23631. Tlie Secretary will now read from the ilinute Book, under date .January 22ud, 
 1836, what you principally rely upon — [The minute is read as follows] : — 
 
 "Secretary read an Annual Eeport from Mr. Blacker, the agent of the Dungannon 
 School lands, remonstrating against the decision of the Board, relative to his bringing 
 ejectments, asking, relative to the school at Derrytresk, and stating generally, at great 
 length, the improvement evident in the comfort of the tenantry, and forwarding a petition 
 from the tenants for a school. The Secretary, at the same time, laid on the table an 
 opinion of the Attorney-General, that a grant for estaldisliing scliools such as that pi'o- 
 posed, could legally be made. Ordered, with regard to the ejectment,? — That Mr. Blacker 
 be ordered to take proceedings, by civil bill ejectment, against such tenants of the Dun- 
 gannon Estate as he may think proper, and at such times as may appear to him to be 
 necessary, provided only, that he furnish the names to be proceeded against to the law 
 agents of the Board, and receive from them the Jorm.s of the notices, and that the law 
 proceedings be taken under their directions."' — 1 have a general recollection of that order 
 on my mind. 
 
 23632. In Vol. II. of the Solicitors' Bills of Costs, page 128, April 6th, K'36, you will 
 see a charge of £46 15s. for 905 notices to quit, at Is. a notice for tenants on six town- 
 lands, being at the rate of 5s. a townland, and just over 2s. Id. a tenant (the total number 
 of tenantry being about 350)? — Yes, I see the sum of £46 15s., and I have no doubt 
 your calculation is correct. 
 
 23633. At page 132 of the Solicitors' Bills of Costs, March 20, 1837, you will find a 
 charge of £40 4s. for 774 notices to quit, at Is. a notice, being at the rate of 5s. a town- 
 land, and 2s. a tenant ? — I see the total sum totted, and I have no doubt the calculation is 
 correct. 
 
 23634. In Vol. III. of the Solicitors' Bills of Costs, for 1839, there is a charge of £54 6s. 
 for notices to cpiit. For March, 1841, there is a charge of £28 6s. for notices to quit 
 for 273 tenants, on five townlands, being at the rate of 5s. a townland, and over 25. a 
 tenant? — Yes. 
 
 23635. I believe you have now before you, four bills of costs against the Erasmus Smith's 
 charity. You will find, under date of Sejitcmher, 1841, a charge of A'3 Is. for filling up 
 fifty-six notices to quit, being at the rate of 5s. for the set of notices, and Is. per 
 tenant ? — Yes. 
 
 23636. Will you explain why it is, that at the same time in Marcli, 1841, you have 
 charged the Commissioners of Education at tlie rate of 5s. ])er townland, and 2s. per tenant ? 
 — There were such an amazing number of notices for tlie Clare-street Board, that I remem- 
 ber distinctly having directed, at the time, the person who prepared our costs, to make 
 that particular charge lor eacli townland, and for eacli co])y served. 
 
 23637. Tlic question is this — why, in March, 1841, for filling uj) notices to quit, you 
 charged the Connnissioners of ICducation 5s. per townland, and 2s. per tenant, while you 
 cliarged tlic I'rasmus Smith's Board only 5s. for a set ol' notices, and Is. per tenant? — I 
 cannot tell. 
 
 23638. May I take it as the fact, that all these charges were made?— I have no 
 doubt of it. 
 
 2.'i()39. I will now direct your attention to tiie l)ill of costs ordered by tiiis Commis- 
 sion, from August, 1842, to April, 1856. My (|ucstions will be as heretofore, witli the 
 solitary e.vcoption of the last <iuestion, confined to tlie Dungannon Kst.ite. 1 jierceive 
 from the rental- book, that the rental of the Dungannon School Estate is about £1,400 per 
 annum, and the number of tenants about 350. Tlic total charge for filling up notices to 
 quit, for the tenants of that estate, from August 1842, to April, 1856, is about £"430, being 
 at the rate of 5s, per tenant. We will go first to March, 1843. I think you will perceive 
 that there was a charge of £88 for filling u]i notices to quit for 352 tenants, being at tho 
 rate of 5s. per tenant? — There are a great number charged for, and 1 have no doubt 
 the rat(' is about 5s. jier tenant. 
 
 23640. Docs it not appear that there was due, in November, 1842, by thirty-eight tenants, 
 £65 48. ?— Yes.
 
 EVIDENCE. 259 
 
 23641. I perceive that, in April, 1S45, there is a charge of £90 for filling up notices to Dubun. 
 
 quit for 352 tenants, being at the rate of 5.s' a tenant, and £2 for incidentals. From the yy,^, r(-«(«iIs.vwntTs 
 rental-book, it appears tlicre was due, in November, 1844, by throe tenants, £7 19.*. lOd. ? — vf Kilucatwn U 
 I did not know whether or not there were any arrears. 1 merely got directions to prepare ^''<^l""''> cian-sireei, 
 notices to quit. ^ ^ f "'''"'■ ^ 
 
 2 i(i42. J perceive tliat, in Jlarch, 1847, for filling up notices to quit for 351 tenants, £91 J-'e"'''ereton, Esq. 
 is charged, being at a general rate of 5.s. a tenant? — They are charged 5s. a notice. 
 
 23G43. Was not 1847 the laniine year? — Yes. 
 
 23G44. From tlio reiital-liook it apjjears there was due, in Novemlior, 1841, by 142 
 tenants, £441 Oi- 8f/. ; there are about .'5.')0 tenants, and the largest sum of arrears due by 
 any one of the 1-12 tenants was £l 1 2a-. 4d., and the smallest, 6s. 5d., while the other 20S 
 tenants, who were served with notices to quit in the famine year, did not owe one farthing 
 of rent. Can you give nie any ex])lanation of sucli an extraordinary state of things ? — 1 
 had nothing to say or do with it, I r(?ceived directions to prej)are notices to quit for A, 
 13, C, and D ; and who tliey were, or wliat they owed, or wliat the circumstances were, I 
 did not know. 
 
 23G45. Can you give mo any explanation of a policy so unprecedented, and, in my opi- 
 nion, so impolitic and cruel? — In consequence of the representations I made to the Board 
 the system was discontiiuied. 
 
 23()4G. It ap])ears tliat in 1847, the famine year in Ireland, notices to quit were served 
 upon 208 tenants wlio did not owe a fartliing of arrears, and upon 142 tenants in arrear, the 
 largest arrear that any one of tliem owed being £ 1 1 2*. 4d., and the smallest 6s. 5d. Having 
 been so many years solicitor to the Board are you aware who are the persons responsible 
 for sucli a system ? — No. I received orders to | repare so many notices to quit, and I pre- 
 pared them. It appeai'ed to me to be inexpedient. I understood that they were a very 
 lawless set of tenants ; that they got into a state of the greatest possible insubordina- 
 tion, and that it the Board did not show them they were insecure in their tenure, for a while 
 they would not be able to manage them. That was the rumour; but I have not heard 
 from any autlicntic source what led to that course being pursued for so many years. 
 
 23647- Tlie result of my examination of the books is this, that during twenty years, 
 \i])on a rental of about £1,440, the arrears, including the famine years, with the exception 
 of 1847, when £517 was due, which has been since worked off, never exceeded £441, 
 being less than one-third of the rental ? — I never knew the state of the rental before. I 
 never had any occasion to look into it, and knew nothing about it. I have nothing to say 
 to the policy of serving notices to quit. 
 
 23048. I want to know who is responsible for ordering, at a cost of £91 out of the 
 charity, in March, 1847, the famine year, tenants to be served witli notices to quit, 208 of 
 whom were not one farthing in arrear at the pi'eceding November? — You can answer that 
 as well as I can ; I do not know. 
 
 23649- I have not been, as you have been, thirty years legal adviser to the Board. 
 How, therefore, caul answer the question as well as yourself? — They never consulted me 
 upon it. They gave me orders to prepare tlie notices to quit, and I did so. 
 
 23650. AVho ordered you to prepare the notices to quit in 1847, and to serve them upon 
 208 tenants, who were not one farthing in arrear in the preceding November, and also 
 upon other tenants, the largest amount of arrear due by any one of whom was £ll 2s. 4d., 
 and the smallest, 6s. 5d. ? — The order was conveyed to me in the regular way. 
 
 23651. Who was that order signed by? — Of course by the secretary- I received no 
 orders from any one else. 
 
 23652. Have all the arrears been since worked of!'? — They have. 
 
 23653. Have notices to quit been served lately? — Not since 1853, when I brought 
 the subject before the Board, and they ordered the notices to be discontinued. 
 
 23654. A^m 1 to understand that a person of the very great experience you, undoubtedly, 
 possess, as one of the first solicitors in Dublin, cannot give an explanation of the policy 
 that has been pursued in respect of these notices to quit .'' — I cannot. 
 
 23655. Do you think that it was a jnst or a humane policy to pursue in the famine year 
 of 1847? — My opinion upon the conduct of my employers is not very agreeable to me to 
 give. I have no hesitation in stating that I did bring the subject before the Board, and 
 that it was discontinued in consequence, in 1 853. 
 
 23G56. We will keep to 1847. Can you justify the policy ? — No. 
 23637- But you say that you are not responsible. You only executed the orders you 
 received ? — Yes- 
 
 23658. Did you remonstrate in 1847? — I have no recollection whether I did or not. It 
 is probable I did not ; but, certainly, I did more than once. I will not say remonstrate. 
 It is not for me to remonstrate with the Board ; but I mentioned at the Board that they 
 were pursuing an expensive course, and one that would give uncertainty of tenure- As 
 well as I recollect, the answer, in conversation, was, that Mr. Wann, or Mr- Blacker, I 
 cannot say which, considered it tended to get the estate into good order. 
 
 23659. But could an estate be said to bein bad order, when, during the last twenty years, the 
 arrears have been less than oue-third of the rental ?— I would be glad to have such an estate. 
 
 23660- Under such a state of things, where was tlie necessity of serving notices to quit, 
 at an average cost of £80 or £90 per annum? — I cannot tcll- 
 
 23661. In March, 1849, is there not a charge of £84 for fiUing up notices to quit for 
 320 tenants and several undertenants, being at the rate of 5s. per tenant ? — Yes. 
 
 23602. [Secretari/.—The arrears in November, 1848, were £436 Os. id., due by about 
 
 Vol. II. ' 2 L 2
 
 260 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 JDUBLIK. 
 
 77ie Commissioners 
 of Education in 
 
 Iicliiiid, Clnre-slrcel. 
 Dublin. 
 
 G. Fetlierston. E?q. 
 
 112 tenants. They had diminished from £517 the year before. Under date of the 13th 
 of March, 1849, there is the following minute of proceedings of a Board, at which the 
 solicitors were present : — " Head a letter from the solicitors, stating that the agent had 
 api:)liod to them for notices to quit, to be served on several tenants. Ordered."] 
 
 •23GG3. Mr. Stephens. — I perceive tliere is a charge in April, 1851, of i'75, for filling up 
 notices to quit for •292 tenants and .several undertenants, being at the rate of 5.s. per 
 tenant ? — Yes. 
 
 2361)4. On reference to the rental, I find the arrears due by twenty-five tenants, in 
 November, 1850, amounted to £63 10s. Ad. If Mr. Blacker's opinion had been acted 
 upon, from 1834 to 1851, would not the sum of £750, for filling up notices to quit, have 
 been saved to the cliarity ? — I suppose so. If I had not got the orders to prepare the 
 notices. I would not have j^rcpared them, and of course would not have charged for them. 
 
 23G65. You say that you received instructions, and carried them out in the ordinary 
 way of business ? — Precisch\ 
 
 23066. If the secretary filled up these notices to quit in his office, would not the 
 expense have fallen on the Consolidated Fund, and not upon the charity, under the 4th 
 section of the 53rd George III., chap. 107. I will assume that this £767 was a proper 
 disbursement? — I am not acquainted with that. I may be wrong, but I think the practice 
 of the Board has been always, in the cases of schools that had estates, to charge the expense 
 upon the estate. The secretary's office and salary are charged upon the Consolidated 
 Fund, but he would not have charged for pi'ofessional assistance. 
 
 23667. If the notices were printed, conld not any clerk of ordinary intelligence, in the 
 secretary's office, have filled them up? — lie might. 
 
 23668. And would not the £750 have been saved ? — Yes. 
 
 236G9. Then from bad management, in respect of the filling up of these notices to quit, 
 £750 has been diverted from the charity ?— Not yet. 
 
 23670. After taxation ? — -And payment. 
 
 23671. Wc will assume the charge is correct and proper, and if so it vrill be allowed 
 upon taxation ? — I hope so. 
 
 23672. Of that sum, £:]67 has been already paid? — Yes. 
 
 23673. Upon what principle is it that you charge the Consolidated Fund. Under the 
 4th section of the 53rd George III., chap. 107, the expenses of officers, and the incidental 
 expenses of the Board are allowed ? — Yes. 
 
 23674. The Board liave a right, in tlie first place, to appoint a secretary, and such other 
 subordinate officer or odicors as tlicy shall think proper, for carrying into execution the 
 purposes of the Act ; and tlie expense of the oflleers and the incidental expenses of the 
 Board are to be defrayed out of the Consolidated Fund. 
 
 23675. AVhat has been the principle of charging the Consolidated Fund. I will take as 
 an illustration the charge for your regular attendance at the Board. Ought not that 
 sum to have been paid out of the Consolidated Fund? — I sliould think so. 
 
 23616. Mas tliat been done ? — AVhen I got the money I put it into my pocket. I did not 
 know where it came from. 
 
 2367 7. Having been thirty years the legal advisor of the Board, paid for your attendance 
 upon every occasion, do you not think it would be part of your duty to charge some of 
 your accounts to the Consolidated Fund, and the others upon the charity estates. The 
 expenses of the Board are to be paid from two funds — from the Consolidated Fund, and 
 from the charity estates. l\\ the business of the Board, ought you not have charged your 
 attendance, for instance, upon the Consolidated Fund, and your other costs to the charity 
 estates? — Yes; but the practice has been always to make them up for schools, so tliat the 
 expenses, in reference to schools that had no funds, should be charaed upon the Consolidated 
 Fund. 
 
 23678. Then the practice has been to take out the different charges, and init them inider 
 the heads of the diflcrent charities ? — Yes. 
 
 23679- But the Consolidated Fund is only charged for those charities that have no 
 estates? — Yes, that is wluit I always understood. 
 
 23580. Tlien there is no regular rule for charging the Consolidated Fund? — No ; I have 
 always treated the Connnissioners of Education as debtor. Tiiey get tlie means of paying. 
 
 23681. After having examined your bills of costs, 1 think a very large projjortion of the 
 charges otight to have been charged to tlie Consolidated Fund; and if 1 am correct, the 
 cliarity lias been damnified to that extent? — Y'es. 
 
 236H2. Upon tlic l.'3th of April, 185.'!, I find a different rule in resi)cct fif serving notices 
 to quit ii])on tlie tenants. Dr. Hancock will read the minutes to wliich 1 refer. 
 
 2.5(183. [^Secretary This is from the minutes of the ]3tli of April, 1853: — " Bead a 
 
 letter from the agent to the Dungannon Estate, with his account, and a report, setting foitli 
 a most satisfactory account of the condition of the estate geneially, and requesting tliat the 
 solicitors may be directed to prejiare, as usual, notices to quit for tlie tenants generally. 
 Ordered, that Mr. Wann bo inforined tliat the Board feels that it is an injudicious course, 
 and not to be pursued in future, to serve, indiscriminately, notices to quit on tenants who 
 ])ay their rent, and that he do explain to the tenants, that relying on a continuance of 
 regularity in paying their rents, the Commissioners will give directions to discontinue this 
 practice."] 
 
 23684. Under date of April tlic 16th, 1853, there is a charge of £2 for filling up eight 
 notices to quit, being at tlic rate of 5s. a tenant. Have there been any notices to quit 
 filled up since April, 1853 ? — 1 believe not.
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 26 
 
 23685. {^Secretary. — It appears from the rental-book, that there have been no arrears for 
 the last two years. I read tlio following minute und(U' date- the 1st of July, IS.'jG: — "The 
 ({ucstion as to tlie solicitors' liills i>i costs liaving Ijccn brouglit forward, and tlic solicitor 
 liaving retired to an adjoining room, a very long discussion arose tliercon. ]iarticu]arly in 
 respect to tlio charges lor notices to quit on tlic entire of tlie tenantry of tlie Dungannon 
 Estate, and the secretary having been called upon, showed that such had been the custom 
 on tliis estate for a period long before his own connexion Avitli the r)oard, and had so con- 
 tinued, until it had, by a special order, been discontinued ; and also, that in each case wliere 
 sucli notices had been served, the solicitor Iiad iieen directed officially to do so. 
 
 " Tlie Lord Chancellor, tlic solicitor having been called in, stated the opinion of the 
 Hoard, that 55, each for the notices was a very high charge (it ajipearcd that this was the 
 sum formerly charged), and that the aggregate amounted to a very large sum. A special 
 meeting of the Board should bo summoned for Tuesday, 15th mst., to consider the 
 question of costs, &c. ; that any taxation must be a bona fide one, and that this Board 
 would not sanction the appointment of one of the firm (named in the requisition to tax) 
 to attend on behalf of this Board and watch the taxation. The solicitor stated the reason 
 for such party being named, and also his perfect readiness to acquiesce in any arrangement 
 the Commissioners might order as to the charge for notices to quit. Ordered — That a special 
 meeting bo summoned for the I5th inst., that all costs due and taxed be paid, and that 
 the secretary do then have a table prepared, showing the cash balances to meet costs when 
 taxed, if ordered."] 
 
 23686. I want some explanation as to that minute. Accoi'ding to m3Micw,the minute is 
 not correct. It states. That it appeared that five shillings each for tlie notices was the sum 
 formerly charged. No doubt, the solicitors were officially directed to fill up the notices; but 
 from the evidence it appears there have been five different scales of charges for filling up 
 the notices to quit within a period of twentj'-two years. In 1834, the charge was 7s. 
 per tenant; in 1835 it was Is. per tenant and .5s. per townland ; in 1836 it was 2s. "id. per 
 tenant and 5s. per townland ; in 1837, 1839, and 1841, the charge was 2.*. per tenant and 
 as. per townland ; and it is not till 1S42, '43, '4-'), '47, '51, and 1853, that 5s. per tenant is 
 charged. In fiict, in the bill of costs that you have novi' rendered, you have charged 
 dilferently from any bill of costs previou.sly rendered. If I am correct in this statement of 
 facts, and it is made from your own evidence, the fixcts recorded in this minute arc not correct, 
 because it implies that tliere has been but one scale of charges ? — I never heard that minute 
 read till this moment. What is meant, I take it, is, that before the present secretary became 
 connected with the Board, the practice was to serve all the tenants with notices to quit. 
 The statement as to tiie rate of charge is a different member of the sentence. AVhether 
 the minute is very accurate or not 1 will not take on me to say. 
 
 23G87. Is it the fact, that it was stated at the Board, that Gs. per notice wa? the sum 
 formerly charged ? — I take it that is the fact. 
 
 2:i(i88. That 5s. was charged? — Yes; you will find in tlic bill immediately preceding 
 that it was so. 
 
 23689. The bill now under discus.'sion extends from 1842 to 1S56. Take the bills of 
 1837, '39, and 1841, and show me a charge of os. \>cv tenant for filling np notices to quit? — 
 I am now speaking from recollection ; but I did believe that to have been formerly 
 charged. I find that I was wrong in my recollection. Dr. Hancock has just shown me 
 the preceding bill, from which I see that the charge was 5s. for each townland. and \.^. for 
 each copy. 
 
 23690. [_Secrctary. — The only case in which it could be said the charge was os. a copy 
 was where 7s. per tenant was charged.] 
 
 23691. That was in 1834. It is clear there were five difl'erent scales of charges in 
 twenty-two years ? — Yes. 
 
 23692. If that be correct, then this minute records an inaccuracy? — Yes. 
 
 23693. It so happens, that Gs. never was charged anterior to 1842 ? — Yes. 
 
 23694. Turn to the minute of July 15th, 1856. 
 
 23695. \_Secretarij. — At a special Board, summoned pursuant to order, July 15, 1856, 
 this minute of proceedings was made : — " The subject of the costs for which the Board 
 was specially summoned was then entered upon, and after a very long discussion as 
 to the bills of costs themselves, the requisitions for taxation thereof, which had been 
 forwarded to the secretary for his signature, the form of requisition was altered by 
 the Board, and the secretary was ordered to sign requisition so altered, and to forward 
 same, with the bills of costs, to the solicitors, in order to said bills being taxed. Secretary 
 was directed to instruct Mr. Hazlett (referred to in the requisition) to attend taxation on 
 behalf of the Board. 
 
 " liesolved — That in future this Board will not require the attendance of the solicitors, 
 unless specially summoned by order of the Board, or that solicitor has some special business 
 to bring before the Board, or that the secretary shall think his attendance necessary. 
 
 " The Commissioners called for the old bills of costs (taxed) which had been lying over 
 unpaid for many years, and drew a draft for £129 Ws. 1 \d., being the amount, and handed 
 same to Mr. Fetherston." The following are the items of costs : — Athlone, £l 3s. Id. ; Down 
 and Connor, £1 9s. 6-1!.; Jleath and Ardagh, £10 16s. 9fZ. ; Clonmel, £110 9s. 2t/. ; 
 Middleton, 18s. 2d; Downpatrick, ISs. \d ; cost of taxation, £3 16s. M.\ total, 
 £r20 lis. \\d.] 
 
 23696. That was due fourteen years, did you get interest on it ? — Not a penny. There 
 is some due still. 
 
 DUULIN. 
 
 Tlw ('oiiimissioncri: 
 
 fif Edurntion in 
 
 Iriliinil, ( 'Inre-itlrcTt, 
 
 JJiihliii. 
 
 (i. I'rllicrsKiii, Ksq.
 
 262 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 JJtliLIN. 
 
 t[f EdticulifjH ill 
 
 Iifltnidj Cltin'-strci't, 
 
 liuhlhi. 
 
 G. Fetlierston, Esq. 
 
 23697. There is a charge of £110 for Clonni el School ; would that sum have been 
 charged to the Consolidated Fund if the Cloiimel School had not estates ;•' — I suppose so. 
 
 23698. Will you be so kind as to refer to the 53rd Geo. III., cap. 107, sections 4, 9, 
 and 10. I will read from section 4. Tlie Commissioners of Education are to appoint 
 the subordinate ofRcei'S for carrj'ing into execution tlic purposes of the Act, and the 
 expenses of the officers, and the incidental expenses of the Board are to be defrayed out 
 of the Consolidated Fund. Is that clear? — Yes. 
 
 2.i699. Under the 9th section, the Commissioners are to hold visitations of their schools, 
 and to examine and inquire into all matters whatsoever. By the 10th section the Com- 
 missioners have power to appoint assistant visitors, to act in their stead ? — Yes. 
 
 23700. May I be permitted to ask you whetlier the cost of the visitations held under tlie 
 9th and 1 0th sections would not be incidental expenses of the Board under the 4th section ? 
 — I am of opinion they would. 
 
 2-5701. In the case of the Tuam Diocesan School, tliei-c is a charge in the aggregate of 
 £12 16s. 3(^. for business done. Tlic first is jjrcparing deputation for visitors; secondly, 
 a draft affidavit, to be taken by visitors ; and tliirdly, a draft citation. Are these proceedings, 
 for wliich you have charged £ 12 16^. 'id., in a court of common law or equity? — Certainly not. 
 
 23702. Is it a proceeding before a domestic tiibunal, a visitatorial proceeding by Com- 
 missioners, under the statute of the 53rd Geo. 111., cap. 107 ? — Yes. 
 
 23703. And having regard to the construction of the 4th, 9th, and 10th sections of that 
 Act, is it not clear that it is a proceeding, the expense of which ought to have been paid 
 out of the Consolidated Fund ? — I should think so. 
 
 23704. If that business had been transacted in tlic office of the Board, ought not tin? 
 cost to have been paid out of the Consolidated Fund, as business done by one of tlie sub- 
 ordinate officers for carrying out the Act ? — I think so, assuming it to have been so done. 
 
 23705 Is there any thing so special in the business, but that it might have been done in 
 the office of the Board ? — I find a difficulty in answering that question. I would have no 
 difficulty myself in prejiaring tlie instruments. 
 
 23706. Dr. Kyle is a barrister ? — Suppose he were not. It is not necessary that he should 
 be a ban-ister. 
 
 23707. Could not any man of ordinary capacity have done it? — I think a man unaccus- 
 tomed to that kind of work would find himself very much puzzled. If he had a precedent 
 he could do it. 
 
 23708. Are there not numerous precedents in various reports for these visitations ? — 
 Yes. 
 
 23709. Might not this business have been done in the office ? — It might. 
 
 23710. Is there any sjiecial difliculty about it ? — No. 
 
 23711- Was the visitation at Lifford before Commissioners? — No, before visitors 
 appointed by them. 
 
 23712. Who paid the £74 for the visitation at Liftbrd? — I think Lord Erne. 
 
 23713. How came Lord Erne to pay it ? — He is owner of the estate, and he desired the 
 visitation. 
 
 23714. Was he ordered to jiay it ? — It was part of his own arrangement. He sought the 
 visitation. It was granted on his complaint of irregularities, and he paid the cost of it. 
 
 23715. But if complainants are to pay the expenses incidental to such inquiries, would 
 not the effect be, that visitations would never be required ? — No doubt of it ; but Lord 
 Erne volunteered to pay. He said, "Send down the visitation, and I will pay the expense." 
 
 23716. That included the expense of the visitors? — Yes. 
 
 23717. Was it not the policy of the 4th and 9th and 10th sections of the 53rd Geo. III., 
 cap. 107, that such a class of expenses should be paid out of the Consolidated Fund? — 
 You are a better judge of that than 1 am. 
 
 23718. I have not been the adviser to the Board for thirty years past. Would not a 
 court of visitation be an incidental expense ? — My opinion, whatever that is worth, is, that 
 it would be an incidental expense. 
 
 23719. [Secretary. — I read the following extract from Mr. Murland's report on the 
 Banagher Schools. Arrears. — The arrears, as returned in the last rental, amounted to 
 £8 6.9. 2d. Biut this account of arrears is only carried back four or five years, to the time 
 when the estate was re-let ; and I find by the rental of 1S49, that on the 29th of September, 
 in that year, the arrears amounted to £1,034 \'s. \\d., wliich must have been lost to the 
 Commissioners. Besides this, the Commissioners luid to change their agent and to take 
 proceedings against the surety of the late agent for the sum of £289 18s. 7(/., for which he 
 was considered a defaulter. These iiroceedings, unfortunately, were luisuccessful, and the 
 Commi.ssioners lost the fuithcr sum of £198 of costs, as aj)pears by the bill of costs lately 
 furnished by their solicitors, together with £52 O.f. [)d. being the taxed costs of tlie 
 defendant."] 
 
 2.3720. What was the amount of your bill of costs against the Banagher .Scliool Estate 
 from April, 1853, to December, 1854 ? — It seems to be about £198. 
 
 23721. Why were there not projier securities taken to indemnify the Board against the 
 loss which they sustained ? — Tiiere was a bond of security. 
 
 23722. But you derived no advantage from it ? —They did derive considerable advan- 
 tage from it. Tlioy got a sum i)aid in before suit by the sureties. 
 
 23723. Is it not the fact that the ai rears .-iniounted to £1,034 ? — I do not know. 
 
 23724. Did not the Commi.ssioners lose £198 in costs? — They did. 
 
 23725. And £02 Os. Qd. taxed costs of the defendant? — Yes.
 
 EVIDENCE. 263 
 
 2372fj. Out of what fund ought thiH expense to have been paid ?— According to the Dublin. 
 practice of tlie Board, it should come out of the JJanaglicr Scliool Kstatc. . 
 
 2.3727. Out of wh.it fund ought it to iiavc been paid ?—l am afiaid 1 must agree with w ivZ^^'/lT'' 
 you that it ought to be cliarged as incidental exjicnses again.st tlio Consolidated Fund. /n-ft,,,,/, cian-sireet, 
 
 23728. Do you know any thing aliout the question of law as to the leases of the Midlc- I>ii()lin. 
 ton estate ? — There was a great deal of litigaticm on tlie subject. ''■ I'^'Ik'*'"". I^H- 
 
 23729. Were not the law co.sts £ 1,381 ?_Yes. 
 
 23730. Out of what fund were those costs paid ? — Out of tlie Consolidated Fund. The 
 proceedings had been ordered by Mr. Goulljui-n when he was Chief Secretary. lie 
 insisted on their being carried on through to the House of Lords. 
 
 23731. Can you draw any distinction between the Banagher School Jl^stato and tlie 
 Midletou School Fstate, wliich would e.xplain why the charges in respect of one were 
 paid out of the Consolidated Fund, and the otiier out of the charity ? — Except that in the 
 one instance there was an estate, and in tlie other not. 
 
 23732. Is there no other distinction?— No. 
 
 23733. A letter is read as follows : — 
 
 "7th March, 1849. 
 " Dear Sir, — We tliis day received a letter from Jlr. Wann, enclosing a list of a number 
 of tenants upon whom he wishes notices to quit to be at once served, and have to request 
 the directions of the Commissioners of Education respecting them at the earliest opportu- 
 nity which occurs for this purpose. 
 
 " We remain, &c., 
 
 (Signed) " M'Causland and Fetherston." 
 
 ^ 23734. ^Secretary. In a letter written in reply on the 14th of March, 1849, by \\ . C. 
 Kyle, he says : — " In reference to your letter on the subject of notices to quit, applied for 
 by Mr. Wann, you are hereby authorized to have .same prepared."] — I never prepared 
 notices to quit without the express directions of tlie Board. 
 
 23735. A letter is read as follows : — 
 
 "25th March, 1847. 
 " Gentlemen, — I herewith forward to you a list of tenants of the Dungannon School • 
 Estate, for whom the agent requires that notices to quit should be prepared. I also 
 enclose Mr. Wann's letter on this subject, to which I beg to call your immediate attention. 
 
 " Yours truly, 
 
 (Signed) " W. C. Kyle, Secretary. 
 
 " Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston." 
 
 William Cotter Kyle, Esq., ll.d., sworn and examined. ■VViiiinniCditciKvle, 
 
 Esq., I.I,. I). 
 
 23736. Chairman. — Have you any statement you wlsIi to make with reference to the 
 evidence given by Mr. Fetherston? — Merely with regard to tlio minute, under date 
 July 1. 1856, which one of the Commissioners read out from the ^linute Book, vol. VIII , 
 page 211. I wish to explain, as far as T can, an apparent inaccuracy in the minute in 
 reference to the serving of notices to quit, and the charge for iliem. The passage to 
 whicli exception is taken is this : — " The secretary having been called upon, showed that 
 such had been the custom on this estate for a period long before his own connexion with 
 the Board, and so continued, until it had, by a special order, been discontinued ; and also 
 that in each case where sucli notices had been served, the solicitors had been directed 
 officially to do so. The Lord Chancellor, the solicitor having jieen called in, stated the 
 opinion of the Board, that 5s. each for the notices was a very high charge (it appeared that 
 this was the sum formerly charged)." That is the passage to which exception is taken. 
 
 23737. Mr. Stephens. — According to the evidence given to-day, the sum of 5s. per 
 tenant for the notices to qiiit never was charged anterior to 1842? — So it appears, and 
 I wish to exjjlain why 5s. appears upon tlie minute. j\Ir. Fetherston himself to-day 
 stated, until set riglit, tliat the charge had been iis. ; and when he was remonstrated 
 with by the Lord Chancellor on the amount of tlie charge, he stated distinctly he was 
 quite willing to take any thing they liked, but that 5s. was always the charge. That 
 was the reason that statement was taken down. He stated the .same to-day until the 
 analysis was made. 
 
 Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., is further examined. G. Fotlieiftcm, Esq. 
 
 23738. I wish to mention that I made inquiry, and was informed that os. was the 
 regular charge allowed by the schedule of fees, according to which the costs of solicitors 
 were taxed. That was what I stated to the Lord Chancellor. What had been previously 
 paid I did not know, and I felt embarrassed at the time that I did not know. 
 
 William C. Kiile, Esq., ll.d., is further examined. William Cutter Kjie, 
 
 23739. JMr. Stephens. — I wish to ask you a few questions in respect of transactions as 
 to the Dungannon Estate, in March, 1847. I will shortly sum up what has appeared in 
 evidence, and if 1 am inaccurate, either you or Mr. Fetherston will be so kind as to correct 
 me. It appears that in March, 1847, there was a charge of £91 for filling up notices to 
 quit for 351 tenants, being at a general rate of 5s. per'tenant. From the rental-book, it 
 appears there was due in November, 1846, by 142 tenants, £441 Os. 8(7., and that the 
 largest amount due from any one tenant was £l 1 2s. 4d., and the smallest 6s. 5d. Taking 
 in round numbers the tenants on the Dungannon Charity Estate to be 350, there were
 
 Esq., LL.D. 
 
 o 
 
 264 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, lEELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 208 tenants who wore not in arrcar one farthing in Novoniber, 184(j, and yet in iVIarch, 
 
 .„, ,, : . 1847, tliey wore served with notices to quit. Tliis was in the famine year. What the 
 
 of Ediu-aihii in Commissioners want to ascertain ironi you is tins, who is responsible lor carrying out a 
 
 Ireiaiul, Clure-sin.i, policy SO crucl and SO uujust ? — Tliat is a matter of opinion. 1 would beg, in the first 
 
 Dublin. place, to refer the Commissioners to the letter of Mr. Wann, who has been a long time the 
 
 i^i!^''™^''""'^-'''' exceedingly able and efficient agent of the estate. If I recollect rightly, in 1847, the 
 
 period to wliicli the Commissioners refer, Mr. ^Vann sent up a pressing request to the 
 
 Commissioners for notices to Ije served upon tlie tenants, and it was in consequence of 
 
 the application of Mr. Wann, who liad local ]<nowledge, wliicli the Commissioners liad not, 
 
 that the notices were ordered. 
 
 23740. \Yhat I want to know is tliis : Who was it that authorized, in 1847, the famine 
 yeai", notices to quit to be served upon 208 tenants of the Dungannon School Estate, who 
 did not owe one fai-thing of rent. Mr. Fetlicrston says he got his orders from you. Who 
 ordered it to be done ? — I presume that I did, sucli having been tlio custom and practice 
 of the Board for a long time before I was connected with tlie Board. I say nothing of the 
 policy. Tlie practice liad been to serve them. Mr. Wann, the agent, liad been conducting 
 clerk to ilr. Blacker for many years before he became land agent. He is more conversant 
 with the estate tlian any other person. 
 
 23741. Do you not know, from the correspondence in the Slinuto Book, that Mr. Blacker 
 did not wish to have notices to quit filled up by the solicitor? — That I am aware of now. 
 That was before I was appointed. 
 
 23742. Have £750 been charged ])revious to April, 1851, for filling up notices to quit 
 on the tenants of the Dungannon Scliool Estate? — I take for granted tliat is the sum. 
 
 23743. And during that period there have been live different scales of cliargcs for fillin 
 up tlie notices? — TJiat appears from tiie evidence elicited to-day. I never lieard or knew 
 of it before. 
 
 23744. What has been elicited to-day is tlie result of documents in the possession of 
 the Board to which you arc secretary ? — Yes. Pcrliaps it is right 1 should state, in refer- 
 ence to the notices to quit, that the bills of costs are not yet ta.xed. 
 
 23745. Is it the custom in tliis country tliat the notices to quit are filled up by solicitors 
 at OS. per tenant ? — I do not wisli to give any oiiinion about that. 
 
 2374G. I am asking as to the custom of the country ? — I have not much e.xperience of that. 
 
 2 i747. Is it a matter of very great intricacy to fill up a notice to quit ? — I should say not. 
 
 23748. Why were not the notices to quit filled up in your office, as the e.xjieiisc would 
 have been charged upon tlie Consolidated Fund, and not upon the Charity Instates ? — I 
 went according to tlie practice of the Board before I was appointed. 1 desired to act on 
 the practice of the Board, as liad been done by my predecessor, wlio had a very compli- 
 mentary resolution passed to liim for the manner in wliich he liad discharged his duties. 
 If there is any blame to attacli it ouglit not to rest upon my shoulders. 
 
 237^9- Is it not the custom for the agents in this country to fill up the notices to quit ? 
 — I believe so. I know that in some cases the proprietors do it themselves. 
 
 23750. Do you know of any casein wliich tlie solicitors fill up notices to quit at a cost 
 of 5s. per tenant? — I cannot say tliat I do, but my knowledge of that sort of thing is 
 vcr}' limited. 
 
 23751. However, whatever the solicitors did in this case they did in consequence of 
 directions they received from the Board? — Certainly. 
 
 23752. I want to know who authorized this jiolicy ? — Of course tlic Board is responsible 
 for the policy of its acts. The policy of this proceeding was raised before Eord Devon's 
 Commission, beftn-e which I was examined with regard to this very estate. On tliis point 
 the Commissioners will get a great deal of iiiforniatiuii irom Mr. Wann, wlio is practically 
 acquainted with the tenantry. 
 
 23753. There is a charge in the solicitors' bill of costs of £90, for filling up notices to 
 quit for 352 tenants, in April. 1845, at 5s. per tenant, and £9 for incidentals; and from the 
 rental-book it appears there was due, in N^oveniber, 1814, by three tenants, only £7 1 9s. lOd, 
 Wlio is responsible for directing tlie service of tlieso notices to quit? — I tliiiik the agent 
 is. In no instance was a notice to quit issued without an application from the agent, who 
 lived on tlie spot. 
 
 23754. Then he is responsible for what occurred in 1845? — I think so. 
 
 23755. Is he responsible for what occurred in 1847?— I think so, jiriniarily. 
 237'''6- Is he respon.siiile for what occurred in 1851. In that year there is a charge of 
 
 £75, for filling up 292 notices to quit, when out of a rental of about £1,440 per annum, 
 payable by 350 tenants, in November, 1850, the arrears amounted to £iJ-\ Ids. -id , due by 
 twcnty-fivo tenants? — in all cases a])])lication.s for notices to quit came from the agent. 
 At his solicitation they were issued ; I dare say lie will, when examined, be ablo to give an 
 e.xjdaiiation. 
 
 23757. When were you first appointed secretary? — In February, 1835. 
 
 2375H. Can you give me any reason why there arc five diiferent scales of charges for 
 filling up the notices to quit? — I cannot, indeed. 
 
 2375'J. However, you state tliat Mr. Wann is responsible for the notices? — I think the 
 true state of the cas(^ is this : — Mr. Fetherston never filled up notices to quit, without 
 having distinct authoiity to do so; and notices to cjuit were never ordered or issued, 
 without a special a])plication from the agent. 
 
 •J.'i7'iO. Can you refer to the Minute Books of 1845 and 1847, and show the apjilications 
 from Mr. Wann, for notices to quit? — Here is a portion of a letter, of the 2fith March, 1845,
 
 EVIDENCE. 265 
 
 from myself to tlio solicitors : — " An application liavina; been made to the Board, through Dublin. 
 
 solicitors, by .Mr. IJIackcr. i'or notices to (|iiit, it was ordered that the solicitors ho permitted ,.., , — : . 
 to prepare, and remit the .same to Mr. Ijlackcr.'' — lie was the agent at the time. </ AX'«/ion //T* 
 
 '2.'}7(il. I want to ascertain what ]Mr. Wann advised in 184.5 and 1847? — Air. Blacker Irul'ami, I'jnrc-Htrcet, 
 wrote in 184.5. Dublin. 
 
 2:3762. Give mo a letter from llr. Blacker, in 1 84,5, asking for notices to quit ?— It is not JJI""" *^''"'^'" '^^'''' 
 
 here, but it is recited in what I have read : — " An application having been made to the ' 
 
 Board, tlirougli tiie solicitors, by j\ir. Blacker, for notices to quit." I think Mr. Wann 
 was the agent in 1817. I vead a letter of the 2.5th of March, 1847. i'rom myself to the 
 solicitors: — '• I herewith forward to you a list of tenants of the Dungannon School Estate, 
 for whom the agent requires that notices to quit should bo prcparecl. 1 also enclose Mr. 
 Wann's letter on this subject, to which I beg to call your immediate attention." I learn 
 from Mr. Wann that he served his apprenticeship to Mr, Blacker. 
 
 2.'{7<J3. What incidental e.\peiisos of the Board do you charge to the Consolidated Fund, 
 under the Statute of the 53rd George 111., cap. 107 ? — Tliat Act of Parliament is modified 
 by one passed, I tliiuk, in the last session. Eor instance, my salary was formerly charged 
 upon the Consolidated Fund, and it is not so now. 1 have been put upon the votes. 
 
 237()4. Do you charge any other e.vpenses? — The only regular charge, beyond my 
 salary, we make and apply for to the Consolidated Fund, is a charge of £150 per annum, 
 for an ollice clerk and stationery, and some trifling expenses, may be for postage, and things 
 of that kind. Tiic form of a])plication has been settled, by orders from the Treasury, 
 from time to time. 
 
 23705. If you were to hold a visitation, what fund would you charge with the expenses 
 of the visitation ? — The practice has been, when the school to be visited had funds, to 
 charge the expense upon the school, and when it had not, to get them from the Consolidated 
 Fund. 
 
 237CC. What right have you to cliarge the estates uf tlie charities with the expenses of 
 visitations; — would they not bo incidental expenses of the Board, for carrying into effect 
 the purposes of the Act?- -That is a question of law. I am prepared to think, that the 
 only proper place to apply for them would be to the Consolidated Fund. But such is not 
 the practice. The question has never been raised. In consequence of the questions put 
 by you to iMr. Fotherston, and the answers given, I am quite prepared to think the prac- 
 tice has been wrong. 
 
 237G7. Did you hear the questions that were put to Mr. Fetherston, upon the construc- 
 tion of Statute 53 Gcoi'ge 111., cap. 107, and the answers given? — Yes. 
 
 23768. Do you concur in opinion with Mr. Fetherston, as to his construction of that Act 
 of Parliament? — 1 do. I think the construction put upon the Act of Parliament, by the 
 Commissioner putting the questions as to the construction, is correct. 
 
 23769. If that construction had been acted upon, would not a large sum of money have 
 been saved to the respective charities ? — Certainly, as a necessary consequence. 
 
 237^0. [Secretarti. — -Under date, March I3th, 1829, is this minute: — "The Secretary 
 ])roduced the following receipts: — 1st. The receipt of Mr. Wilham James M'Causland", 
 solicitor to the Board, for £596 Os- 4d., being the amount of sundry bills of costs, included 
 in the memorial to Government, for the payment of incidental expenses, which was signed 
 by the Board, on the 9th of February last." These co.sts were charged in cases where 
 there were funds to meet them, as well as in cases where there were no funds; for example: 
 Banagher miscellaneous costs, £39 8s.: Baphoe do , £51 I9s. 5d. : Diocesan and District 
 schools, £198 13s. 9d.; Down and Dromore, Midleton, &c., £120 6s. bd.; Clonmel, 
 £179 3s. 6(Z. ; Eyrecourt, £6 9s. Sd.] 
 
 23771- Who is it that pays the expenses of the visitors, when they hold visitations? — 
 The Board pay them out of the funds of the schools that have funds. 
 
 23772. That clearly is a misapplication of the charity estates. The policy of the 53rd 
 George 111., cap. 107, sections J, 9, and 10, was, that these expenses should be paid out 
 of tho Consolidated Fund ; otherwise, no complaints would be made ? — So it would appear. 
 
 23773. Then the best way to prevent comi^laints being made would be, to charge the 
 expenses upon the charity estates, or upon the applicants, as in the LifTord case ? — It 
 would have the effect of checking the making of complaints. 
 
 23774. Under what circumstances did Lord ICrne pay £74, tho cost of tho visitation; 
 even to the travelling expenses of the visitors? — 1 cannot exactly recollect how that was. 
 I was one of the visitors myself, and the travelling expenses were paid in the first instance 
 by Mr. Fetherston, who was one of the visitors. He got the amount paid by Lord Erne. 
 I do not recollect exactly how. 
 
 23775. What I want to ascertain is, how Lord Erne came to pay this sum. I assume 
 that he made a complaint to your Board respecting the school at Liflbrd ? — Yes. 
 
 23776. Was there any contract or agreement made with him, that he should bear the 
 expenses of tho visitation ? — There may be. I do not recollect that there was. 
 
 23777. Have you any documents to which you can refer, to enable you to give me an 
 answer to that question ? — You have every book belonging to the Board here. 
 
 23778. Are you of opinion that visitatorial expenses ought to be charged upon the Con- 
 solidated Fund ?— The proper fund to pay should be the Consolidated Fund. Whether 
 they would pay or not, I do not know. I never heard the question raised till to-day. 
 
 23779. Must it not be self-evident, that if every person who made a complaint was to 
 pay tlie expenses of the visitation, no complaint would be made, except by men of 
 property, hke Lord Erne ? — Yes ; and two or three applications have been made, with 
 
 VoL."n. 2M
 
 2G6 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 The Commissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 AVUliam Cotter Kyle, 
 
 Efq., LL.D. 
 
 regard to private endowments, and I wrote to the parties to know whether they would contri- 
 bute any thing towards the expenses. I dare say, in Lord Erne's case, there was an under- 
 taking from him to pay the expenses ; but, in other cases, there may be no one responsible. 
 237S0. Would not the Consolidated Fund be responsible for the expenses of the visitors ? 
 — They might refuse the money. 
 
 23781. How could the Treasury refuse to carry out the provisions of an Act of Parlia- 
 ment. In those cases to which you have i-eferred, in which applications have been made 
 
 for inquiry, and which have been refused, in consequence of the want of funds ? 
 
 They have not been refused. They are matters of very recent date. 
 
 23782. What date ? — Within a few months some cases have been stirred up by this 
 Commission. One case is at Saintfield, county Down, where there is a dispute with the 
 landlord. We applied to the parties about the expense, and they did not give a direct 
 answer. 
 
 23783. When you applied to the Lords of the Treasury, in the Midleton case, for 
 £1,381 17s. Sji^., did you not receive it ? — Of course it was paid. 
 
 23784. If the money was paid in that case, why would it not be paid in other cases of a 
 similar character? — In that case the proceedings were specially ordered by the Government 
 of the day, and very expensive and unsatisfactory they were. There was an appeal to the 
 House of Lords. 
 
 23785. Then, in fact, it has not been the practice of the Board, when complaints have 
 been made to them, respecting the defective state of schools, to send down any visitors 
 for the purpose of cai-rying out the provisions of the 53rd George III., cap. 107? — I 
 do not think that is a fair inference from my evidence ; it is putting tlie matter too 
 broadly. 1 have merely stated, that two or three cases have recently occurred, as to 
 which no decision has yet been come by the Board. AVe are going to get the facts of one 
 case. The property was sold in tlie Incumbered Estates Court. 
 
 23786. How many complaints have been made din-ing the last twenty years to the 
 Board ? — I could not answer that without reference to the books. 
 
 23787. Have there been complaints? — Yes, because visitations have been held. 
 
 23788. How many ? — I suppose about ten or twelve. 
 
 23789. What fund was charged with the expenses of these visitations? — The Charity 
 Estates. 
 
 23790. And not the Consolidated Fund?— No. 
 
 23791. Could you acquaint me how many visitations or inquiries have been held during 
 your tenure of office ; what have been the expenses of each visitation or inquiry and in 
 how many cases visitations, or inquiries, have been refused ; giving the names of the 
 complainants, and the schools complained against ? — I do not know that any have been 
 refused ; but, as far as my recollection will serve me, the first ^4sitation that I recollect 
 was one at Navan ; tlien there was one at Eallyroan, anotlier at Cavan. 
 
 23792. Be so kind as to make a return to the Commissioners on the subject? — I wiU, 
 when I get the materials, but you have aU my books and documents. 
 
 [For further evidence, see p. 268.] 
 
 Tlie Governors of the 
 
 Schools Jounded 6y 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 — continued. 
 lU;\f. H. Hamilton. 
 
 The Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esa. (continued). 
 
 The Rev. Hugli Hamilton is sworn and examined. 
 
 23793. I find that Thomas Murphy was examined at Limerick, and one of the Commis- 
 sioners asked him if he had been examined by me as Secretary to the Board. The Com- 
 missioners seemed to throw a doubt upon that, and the witness said he had been examined. 
 The fact was, that 1 was one of the examiners vvho examined him for a certificate from the 
 Church Education Society ; he was the best answerer in Scripture, and the best on the 
 total, and I did not think it necessary to examine him over again. He was asked b_y 07ic 
 of the Commissioners if he liad got one of the Governors" Honorary Premiums. I beg to 
 hand in a list of the Governors' Honoraiy Premiums, from 1850 to 1855, inclusive. I hand 
 iu the return as follows : — 
 
 " List of Premiums to Masters and IMistrcsscs, under Rule VIL, from the year 1850. 
 
 1850. — George Dunn, master of Gortin ; George Lindsay, master of Milford (resigned); 
 William Taylor, master of Moinitstowart ; Arthur Bell, master of Newtownards ; Elizabeth 
 Bottomley, mistress of Beltiny (emigrated) ; Anne Anderson, mistress of Lurgan ; William 
 Miller, master of Enniscorthy : Elijah Bradley, master of Kilru.sh ; Benjamin Carter, 
 master of Tralee; George Jacob, master of Ferns; JIarianne Miller, mistress of Ennis- 
 corthy; Margaret Rossiter, mistress of Ardeo (resigned). 
 
 1851. — William Taylor, master of Mountstewart ; .John Macfarlane, master of Aghorton; 
 James Caldwell, master of Ardglass; John Sims, master of Killaloc (dead); Benjamiu 
 Carter, master of Traloe; Elijah Bradley, master of Kilrusli; William ]\lillar. master of 
 Enniscorthy; George Jacob, master of Ferns; Sophia Grant, mistress of Rich Hill ; Mary 
 Gillespie, mistress of Collon ; Mariaime Miller, mistress of Enniscorthy. 
 
 1852. — William Taylor, master of Mountstewart; George Dunn, master of Gortin; 
 Samuel Mills, master of Comber, county Down (resigned); Edward Ward, master of 
 Sligo; William Miller, master of Enniscorthy ; Benjamin Carter, master of Tralee; Elijah 
 Bradley, master of Kilrush ; Gcorgo Jacob, master of Ferns ; Marianne Miller, mistress of 
 
 Note Teachers are still in possession, except where marked otherwise.
 
 EVIDENCE. 267 
 
 Eiiniscortliy ; Mary Gillespie, mistress of CoUon ; Marianne llootli, mistress of Wexford ; Duulin. 
 
 Ellen Gartliner, mistress of Ivathdrum (emigrated). ^^^ 
 
 1 85o. — William Taylor, master of Mountstcwart ; ^Villiam Miller, master of Enniscorthy ; So/wutt founded by 
 Elijah IJradley, master of Kilrusli ; IJcnjamin Carter, master of Tralee ; George .Jacob, Ermmus Smith, Esq. 
 master of Ferns ; Edward Ward, master of Sligo ; Jolni Price, master of Dcrry ; Abraham Eev. n. Hamilton. 
 Brown, master of Beltiu'bet ; Marianne Miller, mistress of Enniscorthy ; Marianne Booth, 
 mistress of We.xford ; Mary Gillespie, mistress of Collon; Anne Anderson, mistress of 
 Lurgan ; Margaret Iloare, mistress of Mullavilly. The two last being equally deserving. 
 
 .1854. — William Taylor, master of Mountstewart ; Benjamin Carter, master of Tralee; 
 Elijah Jiradley, master of Kilrush; George Jacob, master of I'^erns; Edward Ward, master 
 of yiigo; George Uiiiin, master of Gortin ; .John llorgan, master of Innishannon ; James 
 F. Booth, master of Wexford ; Marianne Miller, mistress of Enniscorthy ; Mary Hill, 
 mistress of Bandon ; Marianne Booth, mistress of Wexford ; Margaret llossitcr, mistress of 
 Ardcc (resigned). 
 
 1855. William Taylor, master of Mountstewart; Ileniy Arnold, master of Bandon; 
 Benjamin Carter, master of Tralee ; Edward Ward, master of Sligo ; William Miller, 
 master of Enniscorthy ; James Caldwell, master of Ardglass ; George B. Grant, master of 
 Rich Hill ; Arthur Bell, master of Newtownards ; Marianne Miller, mistress of Enniscorthy; 
 Mary Hill, mistress of Bandon ; Marianne Smith, mistress of Beltiny ; Mary Gillespie, 
 mistress of Collon.'' 
 
 [For further evidence, see p. 277.] 
 
 ^> 
 
 ^#, 
 
 P 
 
 ^■^?3j 
 
 "^4. 
 
 Vol. n. 2 M 2
 
 268 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 The Commissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, 
 
 Dublin — continued. 
 
 E; 
 
 sq., Li,.D. 
 
 — ' Dublin, 11th N.oveiMbee, 185G. 
 
 Present: — Tlie Makquess of Kildake (CbaiiD^aii), Rev. Dr. Graves, Mr. Stephens, and 
 
 Dr. Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Commissioners of Education in Ireland, Clahe-street, Dublin (continued). 
 William Cotter Kyle, ll.d., further examined. 
 
 William Cotter Kyle, 23794. ilr. Stephens. — I wish to direct your attention, Dr. Kyle, to tlie provisions of 
 " Stat. 3 Geo. IV., cap. 79, sec. 8, in order to ascertain whether you have any authority to 
 
 pay law costs out of the residue of another school, and whether the residue ought not to 
 be confined to the maintenanceof the masters and the improvement of theschoolhouses? — 
 I may answer that question directly, by stating that I do not tliink we have power to pay 
 law costs out of the residue, which opinion I have formed in consequence of your exami- 
 nation yesterday. 
 
 23795. If you look to the section, you will find the words are, "For the maintenance and 
 support of the masters of the said several schools, * * * and enlarging, furnishing, and 
 providing the schoolhouses." It then goes on to provide that the residue sliall be applied to 
 the like "maintenance" and "improvement" of any other, or others, of the said schools, 
 "whose funds may stand in need of such aid." Do you think, under that section, which is 
 not affected by the provisions of the 57th Geo. III., or by any subsequent statute, there is 
 any authority to pay law costs out of tlie residue of another school ? — There certainlj' is not. 
 
 23796. Tlien, if such payments have been made under the orders of the Board, you 
 consider tliem misapplications of the funds of tlie charity ? — That is the necessary conse- 
 quence, if my view of the law be right. 
 
 23797. Will you be so kind as to turn to the law costs book of February 26, 1830, page 
 206 '?— I have before me the Raphoe costs. 
 
 23798. Those costs amounted to £38 18s. llfZ. ? — So it appears from this book. 
 
 23799. AVere those costs paid out of the Knniskillen School Fund? — It appears that 
 they were ; but this occurred before my connexion with the Board. 
 
 23S0O. I am aware of that; but I am now only asking you to speak from the document 
 before you ? — It so appears from this book. 
 
 23801. And we have received that book out of your custody ? — Tes; and I believe it to 
 be correct. 
 
 23802. Do you also see, at page 243 of the same book, another charge of £14 195. on 
 account of Carysfort, Midlcton, Cavan, and Dungannon? — Yes. 
 
 23803. Does it appear that those costs were paid out of the Cavan School Fund? — This 
 is the entry — " The foregoing bill of costs was paid to Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston 
 by cheque in their favour on the Bank of Ireland for £14 \%s., No. 2758 (drawn on Cavan 
 School Fund"). 
 
 23804. Will you turn to the 3rd Geo. IV., cap. 79, sec. 8, and inform me whether you find 
 the ilidleton School mentioned among the list of schools there enumerated? — It is not a 
 Royal School. 
 
 23805. Is not that payment in respect of the Midleton School an illegal payment? — 
 That is my opinion. 
 
 23806. Will you turn to page 260 ? — 1 have it before me. 
 
 23807. Do you see a charge there of £22 6s. Ad. for law costs ? — I do. They were 
 costs incurred in respect of Banaglier. 
 
 2^5808. Out of what fund were those law costs paid ? — It appears by the entry appended 
 to the foot of the account, that tlicy were paid out of the iMuiiskillen School Fund. 
 
 23809. Was not that an illegal application of the funds? — Well, 1 think so. 
 
 238 10. If you turn to page 263 of the law costs book, I think you will there find recorded 
 a charge for law costs to the amotuit of £17 8s. Id.'? — I do. 
 
 23811. Was that for the Midleton School? — Will you allow me to read the entry — 
 " Remaining sum of £17 8s. \d., on account of Chancery Fund and taxation expenses, 
 was paid to Messrs. M"Can.sland and Fetlicrston by cheque in their favour on the Bank of 
 Ireland for £17 8.s'. \d., No. 2768 (drawn on account of Knniskillen School Fund"). 
 
 23812. Was not that an illegal a|»plication of the funds of the charity to the amount of 
 £17 8s. \d., in consequence of Midleton School not being included in Statute 3rd Geo. IV., 
 cap. 79, sec. S ? — 1 think it was an illegal ap])lication of the funds. -Mlow me to say, it does 
 not appear from this entr^-, nor do I know iiow the fact is. 
 
 23813. The entry is headed Midleton School. Will you turn to i)age 274? — I liavo it 
 before mc. 
 
 23814. Do you see there a charge on account of law costs to the amount of £42 1 Is. Ad., 
 in respect of Banagher? — I do. 
 
 23S15. Was not that sum paid out of the Enniskillen School Fund? — It was. 
 
 23816. That was, tlu^n, another illegal application of the funds? — Exactly, on tlie same 
 principle. 
 
 23817. Will you turn to the Miniite Boiik of 5th .luly, 1839 ? — 1 have that date before mo 
 
 23818. Do you find tliero a charge of £10 10s. 5'/., being tlie cost of the taxation of a 
 general bill of costs, which are charged to the Navan and Ballyroan School Fund? — Yes
 
 KVIDENCE. 269 
 
 23819. Wliy were those costs charged to the Navan and Ballyroan School Fund cxclu- DnuLiN. 
 sivcly ?— Well, I really cannot say, unless it was y/,^ CV^^/ohc-;. 
 
 23820. You acted upon the custom of the office, I suppose? — Certainly. Tliis occurred ufEducuUon in 
 during my time, and 1 must have followed out the principle which had heen previously Ireland, clan-street, 
 adopted, and 1 may sliorten my examination by stating tliat the same custom has been ,„.,,■, ,, „..,- 
 ado])ted down to the present time, whicli [ am now satisfied is jtcrfectly illegal. '^n^., lld. 
 
 2;5S2I. And of course there has been a misapplication of the charity funds to a very 
 largo amount ? — Yes. 
 
 23822. And this has occurred in consequence of the wrong construction put on this 
 Act of Parliament ? — Yes. 
 
 23823. Were these accounts audited ? — The accounts of the Board do you mean ? 
 
 23824. Were tlicse law costs audited, and to what fund do you charge them? — They 
 are charged in proportion to each school, according to its own funds. 
 
 23825. Has there l)een a regular audit of these costs? — No; but they are taxed regu- 
 larly by the taxing officer appointed for the purpose. 
 
 23826. Has there been any supervision of the distribution of these costs ? — No ; except 
 upon the principle which has been always acted on in the office. 
 
 23827. If these costs liad been, as porhaj)s they should have been, charged to the Con- 
 solidated Fund, would they not have been audited in some Government office? — I take it 
 for granted that they would be. 
 
 23828. Are not the charges which you make on the Consolidated Fund audited ? — 
 Yes ; I forward the vouchers, and they are regularly audited. 
 
 23829. If these law costs had been charged to the Consolidated Fund, would they not 
 have been audited ? — I take it for granted that they would. 
 
 23830. In the same way as other portions of your accounts are audited ? — Yes. 
 
 23831. It appears that it has not been the practice to audit the bills of costs of the 
 attorney, because they are not charged to the Consolidated Fund, but charged, aud illegally 
 charged, to the charity estates ? — Such has been the practice of the Board, long, long before 
 my connexion with it ; and it seems that such a practice was quite illegal. 
 
 23832. Have you ever acted officially except under the authority of the Board ? — It 
 would be very hard for me to say that I have done nothing, except I had the authority 
 of the Board. 
 
 23833. IJave you ever acted in important matters, such as paying law costs, without the 
 authority of the Board ? — I couhl not pay tliem ; it is the Board wliich draws the drafts 
 by which payments are made. I might, perhaps, remind the Commissioners that the 
 Bank of Ireland is the Treasurer of our Board ; they draw all their own drafts, and no 
 money passes through my hands, except that the drafts are committed to my care until 
 they are called for by the parties entitled to receive them. I produce to the Board receipts 
 for them, which correspond with the blocks ; but no money passes through my hands — the 
 Commissioners themselves, solely, pay law costs. 
 
 23834. I assume that there is nothing of importance transacted by j'ou, without the 
 sanction of the Board? — ^That is the fact, as a general proposition. 
 
 23835. We know that there arc matters of detail, which, of course, you would transact 
 without consulting the Board ; but you could not pay, for instance, law costs, without their 
 sanction? — No : 1 could make no payment without their sanction, and it is only in matters 
 which are routine, and even then that 1 consider pressing, I take upon myself the respon- 
 sibility of acting without the authority of the Board. 
 
 23836. You have before you an account of law costs, from 1828 to 1837; does it not 
 appear that a sum of about £2,0U0 was paid out of the Consolidated Fund, on account of 
 law costs? — 1 find that, in March, 1829, there was a sum of £596 O5. Ad. jiaid. 
 
 23837. In round numbers £600 ? — Ifindthat,in 1837, there was a sum of £1,381 l7s. Sirf. 
 paid. 
 
 23838. That is about £2,000 in round numbers. Then it appears that, from 1828 to 
 1837, there was a sum of about £2,000 charged to the Consolidated Fund, for law costs ; but 
 
 it does not appear that there have been any costs charged to the Consolidated Fund since 
 1837 ? — I do not recollect now, precisely, the reason why no costs were chai-ged to the 
 Consolidated Fund since 1837 ; but, I believe, the reason why they were not applied for, 
 and not paid out of the Consolidated Fund, was, that they referred to schools which had 
 no funds of their own. 
 
 23S39. Had the Banagher School any funds?— The Banaghcr School is very much 
 in debt. 
 
 238 iO. Had it no available means? — It had not, except they were procured by what 
 appears now to be an illegal proceeding — taking them out of the surplus funds of the 
 other Boyal Schools. 
 
 23841. Had Baphoe any funds?— No. 
 
 23842. Had Clonmclany funds? — Clonmel is very much in debt. 
 
 23843. It appears that the costs paid out of the Consolidated Fund were — Banagher, 
 £39 8*-.; Kaphoe, £51 19.s. 5(;. ; Diocesan and District, £ 1 98 \^s.9d.; Down aud Dro- 
 more, Midleton, &c., £120 6.9. 5d. ; Clonmel, £179 3s. M.; and Eyrecourt, £6 9s. 3d.; 
 making an aggregate of £596 Os. 4(L? — AVith regard to Banagher and Kaphoe. these two 
 estates were bankrupt, I might say, at that time; and tlie only school that had funds was 
 Eyrecourt, which is a private endowment, consisting of the interest of money in the Funds, 
 which is paid to the master. I suppose the Commissioners did not wish to apply it in any 
 other wav.
 
 270 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELA^'D, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. 23844. — I perceive, that on account of the Atblone School, there is a sum of £l 3s. 7d. 
 
 r,,. „ : . char£;ed to the Consolidated Fund ? — That is a private endowment. 
 
 I he Comnusstotters ^mi i iiii ■ n 
 
 nfEdumtirM in 2384o. 10 what cstatcs have you charged the taxed costs, amountnig to £129 1 Is. 1 la.? 
 
 Ireland, ciure-streei, — They will be charged in the cash-book, which has not yet been posted, in consequence of 
 
 " '"■ , the pressure of business, to the different schools to wliich they apply ; and it is quite clear 
 
 Esql^'^LL-D?"*"^^^'^' *° ™y ™"^*^ "°"'' ^^^^* ^^° *^"^>' mode of getting them legally paid is, by applying to the Con- 
 solidated Fund, and I shall take the orders of the Commissioners on that subject. 
 
 2384G. It appears, from wliat was stated yesterday, that this bill of costs was taxed in 
 April, 1842, and not paid until 1856? — I am quite aware of that. 
 
 23847- — To what properties is that £129 1 Is. llcZ. charged? — T stated, in reply to that 
 question, before, it has not been posted to any separate school as yet. It was paid by the 
 Board in .July last; and I must take their orders, as to how they are to be recouped. 
 They advanced it, because they did not like to let Mr. Fetherston remain longer out of 
 his costs. 
 
 23348. You have already stated, I believe, that, in March, 1829, the law costs, which 
 were paid out of the Consolidated Fund, amounted to £596. Are they not the same class 
 of costs which are included in the bill of costs of April, 1842? — I think they are, and, 
 therefore, w.e must apply to tlie same place for them. I will do notliing on this subject 
 until I receive instructions from the Board. 
 
 23849. Chairman. — Dr. Kyle, the Commissioners have no further questions to put to 
 you, at present ; but if you have any observations to address to them on the points touched 
 upon, during your examination, they will be happy to receive them ? — The only point 
 upon wliich I would wish to make an observation, is in reference to the charge of 5s. 
 for the notices to quit. I wOl just state what occurred : The bills of costs had been 
 furnislied 
 
 23850. Who was present at the meeting of the Board to which you are about to refer? 
 — The Chancellor, and Ma.ster Lyle; but the minute-book will show at once. 
 
 23851. What was the date of the meeting? — The minute to which I allude was made 
 on the 1st of .July, 1856, and was read two or three times yesterday. I wish to state what 
 occurred on that occasion. 
 
 23852. As you have got the minute-book now before you, perhaps you woidd state what 
 Commissioners were present? — The Lord Chancellor, the Right lion. Francis Blackburne, 
 and Acheson Lyle. The solicitors were present at the commencement of the proceedings, 
 but were sent out during the discussion. The bills of costs, which had been very recently 
 furnished, were, by me, submitted to the Commissioners, who were at once struck with 
 the charge of 5s. for each notice to quit. IMr. Fetherston was spoken to about it, 
 and he said it was the customary legal charge ; but that, at the same time, he would be 
 willing to take any sum the Commissioners thought proper to oifer. The Commissioners 
 did not think that would be a proper course for them to pursue, and the costs were, at 
 once, referred for taxation. The requisition for taxation, which had been made out in 
 favour of a'jMr. Fetherston, was ordered to be altered ; and the Chancellor, I think, said 
 he knew of a person, of the name of Hazlett, who would be a proper party to attend the 
 taxation of the costs, which ho impressed upon Mr. Fetherston, should be a hona fide tax- 
 ation. I was directed to communicate with Jlr. Hazlett on tlie subject, stating that he 
 had been appointed, on the part of the Board, to watch the taxation of the costs. I now 
 wish to read a copy of my letter to Mr. Hazlett, in consequence of the directions which 
 1 received from the Board — 
 
 "8, Clare-street, Dublin, 24th .Jul3% 1856. 
 _ '• Sm, — A requisition to attend the taxation of certain law and equity costs, having been 
 signed to you, on behalf of this Board, I was directed to call your particular attention to 
 the charge of five shilhngs each, for notices to quit, on the tenants of the various town- 
 lands of the Dungannon Royal School Estate. 
 
 " I am, &c., 
 (Signed) "W. C. Kyle, Secretary. 
 
 " .John Hazlett, Esq., 
 AC), Lower Dominick-street." 
 
 23853. That letter was transmitted by me to Mr. Hazlett, and the bills of costs were by 
 me forwarded to the solicitors to be taxed, under the supcrint(MideMce of Mr. Hazlett, who 
 was to attend on the part of tlic Board, wbih' tliey were under taxation. I do not know 
 wlicther they are now taxed. Dr. Hancock applied to me for them ; and I put him in tlie 
 way of getting tliem. I do not know wliethcr tliey have been taxed or not. I merely 
 wish, by this statement, to bring before the notice of the Commi.ssioners the fact, tliat the 
 attention of the person aj)pointed to superintend tlie taxation of them was called to that 
 charge of 5s. for every notice to quit, and tliat tlic Commissioners of tlie C'lare-strcct 
 Board expressed thoinsclves very strongly aliout it. 
 
 23854. .Mr. Stephens.— 'Hicro is one question, arising out of your voluntary statement, 
 which 1 wish to put to you. in what respect was the original requisition to tax altered 
 under tlie direction of "the Lord Chancellor, and Lord .lustice Blackburne ? — I could have 
 brought the original with me in its altered shajie; but I can state from memory, that 
 the chief alteration was as to the name of the jierson who was originally named in the 
 reipiisition. There was a draft sent to nic ready for my signature, and the person 
 a])pointed in tliat draft to watch the taxation of the costs on the part of the Board, was a 
 i^lr. Fetherston.
 
 EVIDENCE. 271 
 
 23855. Who is Mr. Fetlicrston ? — T believe he is the son of the gentleman who was a Di-hlin. 
 
 Tht: ('onimissionerK 
 
 witness before you yesterday. 
 
 2385(). Is 1)0 a member of tlie firm ? — I do not know, Imt lie is in the same office. ''ofEd'uaition'in 
 
 23857. Is he a solicitor, and the son of j\rr. Fetherston, the solicitor to the f'ommis- Ireland, Chre-gireet. 
 sionors of Education ? — I do not know whether he is a solicitor or not, but he is in Mr. JMiIm. 
 Fetlicrston's office. William Cotter Kyle, 
 
 23858. In what capacity was the son of Mr. Fcthcrston to attend the taxation ? — I 
 presume on the part of the Commissioners. 
 
 23859. On the ])art of the Commissioncr.s ? — Yes ; and it was liccause tlie person 
 appointed was to act in tliat capacity that tlie sub.stitution of Mr. Ilazlett for Mr. I'cther- 
 ston took place. I think it must be obvious to the Commissioners why the change 
 was made. 
 
 238(i0. Then the name of a disinterested party was inserted, I assume, under the 
 directions of the Lord Chancellor and Lord Justice Blackburne. What was the name of 
 the gentleman inserted ? — Mr. Ilazlett. 
 
 2.'5861. Who is J\Ir. Hazlett? — He is some person that the Chancellor stated was intelli- 
 gent and fit for this duty. 
 
 23S62. Is he an oflii^cr in the Court of Chancery ? — He is, I think. 
 
 23803. Is he not Solicitor for Minors and Lunatics? — -Yes; the Chancellor said he was 
 a very competent and proper person, and his name was substituted for that of Mr. Fcther- 
 ston. It is scarcely necessary for me to add, that a letter was received from Mr. Ilazlett 
 acknowledging the receipt of the orders of the Board, and promising to pay every attention 
 to them. 
 
 23864. Chairman. — Wc have no further questions to ask you. 
 
 William Wann, Esq., sworn and examined. William Wann, Esq. 
 
 23865. Chairman. — What office do you hold under the Commissioners of Education? — 
 I am agent of the Dungannon School Estate. 
 
 23866. How long have you held that office? — Since 1846. 
 
 23867. Do you hold any other agency? — I am agent to the Earl of Gosford. 
 
 2386S. Mr. Stephens. — Mr. Wann, is it not the custom in Ireland for the agent of the 
 property to prepare and fill up notices to quit? — So far as I am aware, it is. 
 
 23869- Then when they are filled up by a solicitoi", it is an exception to the general 
 rule? — It is, so far as I know. 
 
 23870. In the course of your experience, did you ever hear of a charge of 5s. per tenant 
 being made by an attorney for filling up notices to quit on any estate? — I did not. 
 
 2387L Do you think that a reasonable charge? — I do not. 
 
 23872. How much would these notices to quit have cost you, supposing that they 
 were printed, and your clerk had merely to insert the name of the tenant? — I think a 
 few pence. 
 
 23873. Then am 1 to luulcrstand you to state, that it is not customary in Ireland for a 
 solicitor to fill up notices to quit at the rate of 5s. per tenant? — I have no knowledge of 
 such a thing being done excej^t in the present case. 
 
 23874. Is it customary in Ii-eland for tenants to be periodically served with notices to 
 quit, although for several years they owed no rent ? — I am not aware that it is, to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 23875. Who served the notices to quit which were filled up by the solicitors at a cost 
 of 5.?. per tenant? — The bailiff" of the estate. 
 
 23876. Was he paid for so doing? — It is portion of his duty. 
 
 23877. Were those notices printed ? — The greater portion of them were printed. Of 
 course the names of the parties, the townlands, &c., had to be written in. 
 
 23878. Let me understand — these notices to quit were printed, and the only labour 
 was to insert the name of each tenant from a list which you sent up to the solicitors ? — 
 Exactly so. 
 
 23879. For that 5s. a tenant was charged. Who signed these notices ? — I signed them 
 as agent. 
 
 23880. Thus you had double labour, because you sent up the names of the tenants, and 
 then you signed the notices ? — Exactly so. 
 
 23881. Who pays the bailiff" his salary ? — The Board of Education. 
 
 23882. Do you know out of what fund it comes? — Xo. 
 
 238^^3. Perhaps Dr. Kyle would be so kind as to tell mc how the bailiff is paid? 
 
 23884. [W. C. Kyle, ll.d — If I mistake not, Mr. Wann pays him, and takes credit for 
 it in his accounts. It comes out of the funds of the Charity, just like the agent's fees.] 
 
 23885. It seems, Mr. Wann, that you first became agent in 1846. I behove that 1847 
 was one of the famine years in Ireland ? — Yes. 
 
 23886. It appears, that in that year there were notices to quit for 351 tenants filled 
 up by the solicitors, at a cost of £"91, being at a general rate of 6s. per tenant ; and from 
 the rental-book, it appears that there was due in March, 1847, by 142 tenants, £441 Os. 8d., 
 and that there were 208 tenants who did not owe a single farthing. It also appears that 
 the largest amount due from any one of these tenants on November, 1846, was£ll 2s. 4d.; 
 and the smallest amount 6s. 5d. It has been said that it was you who advised the 
 service of these notices to quit, in the famine year of 1847, upon 208 tenants, who did not 
 owe one farthing in November, 1846. Is that a fact, or is it not ? — I make no doubt I did
 
 272 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DrnLLN 
 
 he CominissioTic 
 ofE 
 Ireland, Clare-slreet, 
 
 of Education i 
 etand, Clare- 
 Dublin. 
 
 William Wann. Esq. 
 
 send tlic list up ; but 1 believe that the practice of serving notices to quit has been the 
 great cause why there are now so small arrears. The tenants are of that class, that if notices 
 to quit had not been regularly served, my impression is, they would not have observed 
 punctuality in the payment of their rents. 
 
 23S8T. Is it a positive advantage, and in accordance with the custom of Ireland, that 
 tenants should bo insecure in their holdings, altliough they may not owe one farthing of 
 rent?— Well 
 
 23888. Answer that question, and then give me any explanation that you think proper 
 afterwards? — I cannot say what the custom of Ireland is in that respect. 
 
 23889. Do you think it is an advantage to tenants, although not owing one farthing of 
 rent, that they should liold under a tenure so insecure as is created by the periodical service 
 of notices to quit? — I know a great many of tlic tenants on the Dungannon School Estate 
 were refractory, and there was much cUfliculty in getting rent from them. 
 
 23890. How can you say tliat these tenants wei-e "refractory," when there were 208 of 
 them who did not owe a single farthing ; and the largest amount due by the others was 
 £l 1 25. 4(Z., and the smallest Gs. 5d. AVhat do you mean by the word " refractory," when 
 you apply it to such a class of tenants? — The notices to quit, in a great measure, being 
 over them, caused them to make every exertion to be punctual. 
 
 23891. Are you not aware that, at a Board meeting of 13th April, 1853, at whicli were 
 present the Lord Chancellor, Lord Justice Blackburne, the Bishop of Tuam, and Mr. 
 Lyle, thc}^ directed that, in future, no notices to quit should be served on tenants who paid 
 their rents ? — Dr. Kyle communicated tlie fact to me, but I do not know at what period. 
 
 23892. From the period at wiiich that resolution was communicated to you have 
 there been more tlian eight notices to quit served upon this " refractory" tenantry ? — -I 
 believe not. 
 
 23893. And when these eight notices to quit were served, in April, 1853, at a cost of 
 £2, were there any arrears due ? — No ; but there has been a change in the law since that 
 period. An ejectment can be brought now wlien there is a year's I'ent due witliout the 
 service of a notice to quit. 
 
 23S94. Does it not appear, from the rental-books, that, for twenty years, upon a rental 
 of about £l,440, with tlio exception of the famine year of 1847, when there were £517 
 due, and wliicli has been since worked ofr, the arrears never exceeded £411, being less 
 thim one-third of the rental. Now, what do you mean by the word '" refractory," when 
 applied to tenants such as I have directed your attention to ? — I very weU remember Mr. 
 Blacker, Mr. Little (the solicitor), and myself, consulting as to what steps should be taken 
 against those tenants for non-payment of rent during J\Ir. Blacker's agency. The result 
 was that a few ejectments were served, here and there. 
 
 23895. Is or is it not a fact that, during the last twenty years the arrears never exceeded 
 one-third of the rental? — In 1847 I see tliere were £517 due. 
 
 23896. I admit that there was that arrear due in that famine year, but it has been 
 worked off. At that period there were 208 tenants who did not owe a farthing? — That 
 may be. 
 
 23S97. Do you consider it an advantage to the estate that, under these circumstances, 
 there should be a sum of £750 expended, from 1834 to 1851, for filling up notices to quit? 
 — I was not aware of wliat the cliarge might be ; but I felt, as the servant of the Board, 
 I was acting faithfully towards them in ordering these notices to quit. 
 
 23898. Do you think, whether tenants are in debt or not, it is an expedient policy 
 that they should be periodically served with notices to quit? — I do not say tliat 
 altogether. 
 
 23899. Had not that been the practice pursued on tlie Dungannon Estate from 1846 
 imtil you were stopped by the order of the Lord Chancellor and J ..ord .Justice Blackburne, 
 in 18.53?— It had. 
 
 23900. Since 1853 down to the present moment, have there been any arrears, with tlio 
 exception of a few pounds? — There is an arrear of £9 17s. 2rf. 
 
 23'.i01. Now, with that fact before you, that since the practice — the unjust practice — of 
 serving notices to quit on tenants, whether in arrear or not, lias been discor.tinued. there 
 has been only £9 17.?. 'Id. of arrears ; was it a proper policy to liave pcrioilically served 
 the tmiants with notices to quit? — There is a sununary power now to enlbrco payment 
 under an ejectment tliat there was not formerly, unless you had previously served a notice 
 to quit. Notices to quit are, therefore, now unnecessary. 
 
 23902. Can you refer me to any estate in this country, under public or private manage- 
 ment, where it has been the ])ractice to serve notices to quit upon the tenants, whether 
 they are in arrear or not? — -I am not aware of any; but, as I said before, I ain thoroughly 
 satisfied in my own mind, tliat if notices to (piit had not been served on those tenants, they 
 would not have paid their rents as ])unctually as tliey have done. 
 
 23903. When was the law changed that jirevented the necessity of serving notices to 
 quit periodically upon the tenants of the Dungannon Estate, whether they owed arrears 
 or not? — F cannot tell you when the change in the law took place ; but I believe it is now 
 the law that an ejoctinont can Ije brought when there is only one year's rent due, without 
 the service of a notice to quit. 
 
 23904. Had it not been, then, for the order of the Lord Chancellor and Lord 
 Justice Blackburne, would the periodical service of these notices to quit ujkui the tenants 
 have continued ? — I should say not, from the change which has taken jjlace in the law, and 
 which enables a party to bring an ejectment when there is a year's rent due.
 
 EVIDENCE. 273 
 
 23905. Did you remonstrate against this policy ? — I know I did not. DiJiai.v. 
 
 2390G. Notwitlistanding tliat it was different irom that which was pursued uiion anv otlier 
 
 estate in Ireland?-! am not awa,^. , ., . " 'S^iT^r 
 
 23i)()". 1 (111 liavc tohl me that sinci; Apru, 185.'5, m consequence of tlie order of tlie Lord Ireland, Clure-nimet, 
 Chancelhjr and Lord .Tiisticc Bhickhurne, no notices to (piit liad heen served on tenants Dublin. 
 
 wlio paid their rents. What is the maximum amount of rent now due ? — There is no arrear, William Wann, Esq. 
 except a sum of £!) 175. 2d. 
 
 23908. Take the rental-hook, and tell me what were the arrears due by these " refractory" 
 tenants in 1832 ? — It appears they were ahout £1,700. 
 
 239U9. Have not tiu'se "refractory" tenants ])aid off every fiirthing of those arrears'? — 
 Yes. 
 
 23910. AVas tlier(> not some dispute between tliesc "refractory" tenants and the Board 
 in 1832, as to whetlicr tliey sliould i>ay those arrears? — 1 cannot take upon myself posi- 
 tively to say. 
 
 239 1 1 . Be that as it may, those arrears have been since worked off'? — Yes ; the estate is 
 now nearly free irom arrears. 
 
 23912. It appears to me, looking at the matter with English notions, that since you 
 became manager of the estate the tenants have paid remarkably well? — They luive ; and 
 thanks to the notices to quit. 
 
 23913. Do you, or do you not, justify the service of all the uotices to quit in the famine 
 year ? — There never were harsh measures adopted again.st the tenants, and I do not believe 
 they considered tliese notices as such. 
 
 23914. Perhaps they liked tliem? — They liave not e.xprcsscd like or dislike. There 
 never was any liarslmess exercised towards them, and the rents have been punctually 
 paid. 
 
 23915. (.'an you inform me of any Iiarshncss greater than periodically serving a good 
 tenant with notice to quit, so as to make him insecure in respect of his tenure ; can you 
 define me any purer liarshne.ss than that? — I cannot define it, but it is my impression that 
 the tenants did not feel a hardship in the matter, nor was there any harshness practised 
 towards them. 
 
 23916. Then am I to understand you to say that the tenants on the Dungannon Estate 
 did not feel it the slightest degree of hardship in having notices to quit periodically served 
 on them, althougli they were not in arrear? — They never expressed any dissent or dis- 
 pleasure to me. 
 
 23917. Did tlicy ever express pleasure? — I do not recollect that they did. 
 
 23!) IS. Wjiat was the object of serving tenants with notices to quit wlio did not owe a 
 farthing? Do you think it would be a just thing to serve, for instance, a tenant who owed Cs.St/. 
 with a notice to quit at a cost of 5s.? — As to costs, I was not aware of any being connected 
 with the matter, pro or con. It occurred to the late Mr. Blacker and myself that the sure 
 way of getting the rents when they fell due, was to have these notices served. 
 
 23919. Tlicn the principle of which you approve is this, that the tenants upon the Dun- 
 gannon Charity Estate, whether they owed rent or not, sliould be served with periodical 
 notices to quit ?— Yes. 
 
 23920. Do you approve of that principle ? — I do, wlien applied to the class of tenants 
 who occupy the Dungannon Estate. 
 
 23921. Is there any other estate in Ireland upon which such a principle is adopted ? — 
 I am not aware of any. It is not acted on on Lord Gosford's Estate, because it is occupied 
 by a different class of tenants. 
 
 23922. Will you define the difference between the tenants on this Charity Estate and 
 the tenants on Lord Gosford's Estate, or of any other property in Ireland with which 
 you are acquainted, because you have already told nic that this was an exceptional case ? 
 — I said before, that Mr. Blacker 
 
 23923. Never mind Mr. Blacker. Give your answer, having regard to the time since you 
 were appointed agent in 1 846 ? — He found it necessary that they should be aware there 
 was a method of proceeding to enforce payment. 
 
 23924. rayment of what ?— Of the rent. 
 
 23925. But there was no rent in arrear? — But, supposing the tenants were not in 
 ari-ear, the notices to quit insured f)unctuality at the proper time. 
 
 2392(5. In what way do they differ from Lord Gosford's tenants? — I cannot say. 
 
 23927. Then if you do not know any distinction, why do you pursue a different policy 
 with respect to the Dungannon Charity Estate from what you pursue on Lord Gosford's 
 Estate? — Generally speaking, Lord Gosford's tenants are a more respectable class of 
 persons, and larger holders. 
 
 23928. Then the 350 tenants on the Dungannon School Estate are not respectable 
 persons ? — Not altogether a respectable class. 
 
 23929. What class are they? — They are a very poor class of persons, and not at all 
 unwilling to bo slow in the payment of their rents. 
 
 23930. Yet these tenants owe no arrears, and for twenty years there was not one-third of 
 the rental due, and yet these are disreputable tenants ? — 1 do not say they are disreputable; 
 but I say it is necessary, in my opinion, to have control over them to insure punctuality 
 in the payment of their rents, and it was from this feeling, and this feeling alone, that the 
 notices to quit were ordered by me. 
 
 2393 1 . Do you know of any estate in Ireland occupied only by " respectable " tenants, on 
 which, during the last twenty years, the arrears, with the exception of the famine year of 
 
 Vol. II. 2 N
 
 ■274: ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DtBLix. 1847, when they were £517, which has since heen worked off, did not exceed £440, being 
 
 ^ — : . less than one-third of the rental ? — I do not. 
 of Ed'ucatioHiu ' 23932. Tlicn tlicse tenants have paid better during the last twenty years, on an average, 
 
 Ireland, Clare-street, than the tenants on any other estate with which you are acquainted ? — They have paid very 
 
 DMin. ^eii 
 
 AViliinm Wniin, Esq. 23933. Do you know of any estate upon which the tenants have paid so well ? I do not. 
 
 23934. Then this is the result of your testimony, that whatever responsibility may have 
 been incurred, by serving, in the famine year of 1847, notices to quit, at a cost of £91, upon 
 351 tenants, 208 of wliom were clear of arrear; of serving notices on 320 tenants, at a cost 
 of £84, in 1849, when there was due by 112 out of 354 tenants, only £436 Qs. -id., which 
 arrear has been since worked off, and of serving notices to quit on 292 tenants, at a cost of 
 £75, iu 1851, when, in November. 1850, only £63 lOs. 4d. was due by twenty-five tenants — 
 has been done at your recommendation ? — I make no doubt but I sent up the lists. 
 
 23935. Where is this Dungannon Charity Estate situate? — About fifteen miles from 
 Armagh. 
 
 23936. Is it a mountainous district ? — No. 
 
 23937. Is it a disturbed district ? — I cannot say that it is. 
 
 23938. Are there agrarian outrages committed on it? — I cannot say that there are. 
 
 23939. Is it not quiet and peaceable? — Yes. 
 
 23940. That being so, is there any thing peculiar in the circumstances of the locality 
 which, in your opinion, warrants the resort, on the part of the agent, to measures different 
 from those which are employed by the agents of the neighbouring properties? — I think 
 that, geuerall}' speaking, the tenants on the other properties are more independent. They 
 occupy larger farms, whereas the tenants on the Dungannon Estate are small holders. 
 
 23941. Still there are no arrears, and they pay their rents punctually ? — That is the result. 
 
 23942. Are there not a number of small holders on other properties in Ireland, as well 
 as on the Dungannon Charity Estate ? — I do not know any property wliich has them to 
 the same e.xtent. 
 
 23943. Do you know of any that has them to a small extent ? — I cannot recollect. 
 
 23944. Then am 1 to understand you to say that where there are a number of tenants 
 having small holdings, notices to quit ought to be periodically served on them, whether 
 they pay their rents or not ? — I have found that such is a good arrangement, so far as the 
 tenants on the Dungannon Estate are concerned. 
 
 23945. Do you know of such a practice existing upon a private, or upon any other 
 estate ? — No. 
 
 23946. Then this is the only estate on which you know that such a practice exists, and 
 you are also not aware of any other property, where printed notices to quit are filled up 
 by the sohcitor at a cost of os. a tenant, and then sent down to the agent to be signed and 
 served ? — I am not aware of any property where this is done. 
 
 23947. Coidd you not have filled up the noticcsyourself as well as sign them? — Quite as well. 
 
 23948. Upon Lord Gosford's Estate have you a solicitor who fills up notices to (]uit at 
 the cost 01 OS. a tenant ? — They are, when required, filled in my own ofBce by my clerk. 
 
 23949. xVnd is not that the customary practice ? — My impression is, that it is. If you 
 permit me, I can show you from a letter, which I hold in my hand, written by Messrs. 
 iSl'Causland and Fetherston to Mr. Blacker, on 27th March, 1835, where there was a 
 departure from this practice. 
 
 23950. You were not agent until 1846, and that letter is dated 1S35? — The passage 
 which I wish to read is, " In all future cases, we will endeavour to avoid the necessity of 
 making this troubleson;e and c.X2)cnsive proof, if you will only send us up tlie list of names 
 for whom you want notices to quit, and the list of those for whom you require ejectment 
 processes. The preparation of these is part of our duty, and for tlie due performance of 
 it we are responsible ; and, of course, the payment for it constitutes part of our emolument." 
 
 23951. Did you ever hear of such a claim being put forward on the part of any other 
 solicitor ? — No. 
 
 23952. And is such a claim contrary to the custom of Ireland ? — So far as I know, it is. 
 2395.5. I never licard of such a claim before ? — I was not aware of it until I saw Mr. 
 
 M'Causland's letter. 
 
 23954. IIow many ejectments have been served since 1846 ? — I cannot say. 
 
 23955. Have there been any? — No. 
 
 23956. ll.-ivc there been any tenants actually ejected? — There have been three or four 
 actually ejected, as well as I recollect. 
 
 23957. I )uring tlie last ten years ? — Yes. I have a memorandum of their names — Boyle, 
 Fitzgerald, Curly, MacTorsney. 
 
 23958. Were these persons ejected ? — They were the only four who were ejected, as 
 well as my memory serves mo. 
 
 23959. How much did they owe? — They were all considerably in nrrcar. 1 .should say 
 that tliey owed three years' rent at least. Three of them were men who had been cottiers 
 on the estate, and after\v;irils got small farms on the edges of the bog to reclaim ; but they 
 were wortliless fV^llows, and got behind. As a sample of the refractory disposition of the 
 tenants, I may mention the case of a man named Murray. There were required from him, 
 in order to make a fence square, aljout twenty perches of land, for which he would be paid; 
 but ho was so refractory, that an ejcctnu^nt was obliged to be brought against him, and ho 
 was put out ; but eventually be came to terms, and he is now a tenant of the Board, and 
 pays hia rent as regularly as any person.
 
 EVIDENCE. 275 
 
 239fi0. That was a refractory tenant ? — lie was. Duui.in. 
 
 23961. Chairman. — Is there a police barrack oii the Dunnrannon Instate ? — There is. ,,,, ,. : 
 
 2.iO()2. Canyon state the circumstances under wliicli it was built/ — 1 he agriculturist „f Educaiionin 
 
 was fired at. IrvtumU Clare-stnet, 
 
 •2;59G3. Did tliat occur about 18 l.O or 184G ?— It occurred during Mr. Blackor's agency, ^•*"''''"- 
 
 and the result was, there was a barrack erected there. '^^'"""" ^an", I^"'!- 
 
 2.'59(il. lias there been any outrage committed since? — No, my Lord, not to iny know- 
 ledge. Just immediately beside it, on tlie Lougli shore, gatliorings used to assemble on 
 certain days in tlie year, at which, occasioiLiUy, disturbances took place ; and, I believe, 
 this circumstance was taken into consideration wlien the police barrack was erected. 
 
 239C5. Mr. Stephens. — If a 2)erson purchase an estate with arrears upon it, wliat is the 
 practice generally pursued as to the recovery of those arrears ?— -1 do not know of any estate 
 that lias been purchased with the arrears. 
 
 239(10. Do you not know tliat the arrears on the Dungannon estate were purcliased by 
 the Commissioners of Education ? — I am aware there was a large arrcar due by the tenants, 
 when it fell into tlie possession of the Board. 
 
 239G7. Duo to the late master? — Yes, Mr. Murray. 
 
 23968. Did not the Board purchase the £1,732 arrears? — I believe they made some 
 arrangement witli the representative of Mr. ilurray ; but the matter has occurred so long 
 ago, that 1 cannot remember the particulars. 
 
 23969. 1 )i(l not some bad feeling arise between the tenants and tlie Commissioners in 
 1832, and subsequent years, in respect of tlie payment of that £1,732 ? — I cannot charge my 
 memory with such a circumstance. 
 
 23970. However, that £1,732 was collected? — Ye.s, it was. 
 
 23971. Have the tenants been forgiven any arrears? — Not that T am aware of. 
 
 23972. Have you any experience as to estates purchased under the Incumbered Estates 
 Court ? — Not any. 
 
 23973. {Secretary. — The I'emaining portion of tlie letter handed in by Mr. Wann is as 
 follows : — 
 
 " The ejectments we cannot conduct ourselves, but will intrust them to whoever you 
 select ; and we think Jlr. Little highly competent ; but we will feel obliged if you will, 
 when notices to quit, or ejectments are required on the estate, communicate to the 
 Board, through us, as we are obliged to i-eport on every case. We will, on our part, 
 endeavour to have them ordered and prepared with the least possible delay. By to-mor- 
 row's coach, we hope to send you the notices you last wrote for ; the forms have not yet 
 come from the printer, but you may send to the coach-ofiice for the parcel, without a 
 further letter from, 
 
 " Dear Sir, very faithfully, yours, &c."] 
 
 23974. Do you happen to know in whose handwriting this letter is, Mr. AVann ? — I never 
 saw Mr. Fetherston write, to my knowledge ; but I believe it to be his. 
 
 23975. \_William Cotter Ki/le. ll.d. — 1 never saw this letter until nov,- ; but I believe 
 the wliole of it to be the handwriting of Mr. Fetherston.] 
 
 23976. Chairman. — Mr. AVann, tlie Commissioners have no further questions to put to 
 you ; but if you wish to make any statement, they will be happy to receive it? — I have no 
 observation to make, except that I followed the example of Mr. Blacker — and, it was 
 well known, he was a good agent. I sent up the lists from which those notices were 
 filled ; but I was perfectly unacquainted with the costs attending them, pro or co.'/. I do not 
 believe the tenants ever accused me of being harsh towards tliem, notwithstanding the 
 service of these notices. I do not know wliether I have any claim on the Commissioners for 
 my expenses in attending liere. It is the habit, I may remind them, when a witness is 
 called upon, to pay his expenses. 
 
 23977- The Commissioners have no funds at their disposal for such a purpose. 
 
 23978. [Secretary. — Dr. Kyle has produced the original requisition for the taxation of 
 tlie costs, which was handed to him by Mr. Fetherston for his signature — 
 
 " Jliscellaneous Law Costs of Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston, incurred by the 
 Commissioners of Education in Ireland. 
 
 " The said Commissioners licreby require one of tlie Taxing Masters of Her Majesty's 
 Courts of Common Law in Ireland, to tax tlie co.sts referred to in the margin hereof, as 
 lietween attorney and client; and the said Commissioners hereby undertake (not personally, 
 but in their oilicial capacity as such Commissioners.) to pay any balance which said Master 
 shall certify said costs to amount to, after getting all just credits, and they appoint 
 .Stephen Kadclilfe Fetherston H., Esq., to act as their attorney, and attend on said 
 taxation ; and they consent that said costs be certified. Dated this 15th day of July. 1856. 
 Secretary to the Commissioners of Education in Ireland." 
 
 23979. The way in which that requisition was altered, was by the insertion of the name of 
 Mr. Hazlett for that of Mr. Fetherston, with this additional clause — "And in the taxation of 
 said costs such charges only shall bo allowed, as to the said Master shall appear to have been 
 properly and necessarily incurred in the execution of the business mentioned therein." 
 
 23980. It appears from Them's Directory of this year, that at No. 31, Wellington- quay, 
 the firm of Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston, Solicitors to the Clare-street Board, have 
 their office, and in the same office appears the name of Stephen II. Fetherston, Solicitor; 
 which is the Stephen Eadclift" Fetherston mentioned in the requisition I have read. 
 
 23981. ]\Hlliain Cotter Kyle. ll.d. — That requisition was altered by me, by the directions 
 Vol. II. 2 N 2
 
 276 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DUBLIX. 
 
 The Commissioners 
 
 of Education in 
 
 Ireland^ CliiTe-strect. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 William Wann, ICsq. 
 
 of the Board. I Icept the original, and sent a copy to the solicitors, and also wrote a letter 
 to Mr. Hazlett, calling on him to pay particular attention to the five shillings charge. 
 
 23982. Secretary. — The bill of costs has not been taxed. 
 
 23983. W. C- Kyle, ll.d. — There is a mistake in the requisition as to tlie Christian 
 name of Mr. Hazlett. It is put down as William ; but, I believe it should be John. 
 
 239S4. Secretari/. — There is a point whicli arises on another requisition produced by 
 Dr. Kyle, -which does not arise upon the one I have already read for the Commissioners. 
 It relates to a different class of costs, and is in the following terms : — 
 
 " ]\Iiscellaneous Costs of Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherston, incurred by the Commis- 
 sioners of Education in Ireland. 
 
 "In pursuance of the General Order, No. 165, the said Commissioners hereby require 
 John O'Dwycr, Esq., or any other of tlie Taxing JIasters of Her Majesty's High Court of 
 Chancery in Ireland, to tax the costs referred to in the margin hereof, between solicitor 
 and client ; and the said Commissioners hereby undertake (not personally, but in their 
 official capacity as such Commissioners,) to pay any balance which said master shall certify 
 said costs to amount to, after getting all just credits ; and they do not require the attend- 
 ance of a solicitor on their behalf on said taxation, and they consent that said costs be 
 certified. 
 
 "Dated the 15th day of July, 185G. Wm. C. Kyle, Secretary to the Commissioners of 
 Education in Ireland." 
 
 23985. The above requisition was altered by the Commissioners, by striking out " do not 
 require the attendance of," and substituting "nominate Mr. Wm. Hazlett, as solicitor, 
 to attend." So that in the requisition to tax the bill of costs, which were impugned, Mr. 
 Stephen Fetherston was iiamed to attend the taxation on behalf of the Board ; and in the 
 requisition to tax the other bill of costs, against which there was no specific complaint, 
 there is no person named ; but the Board are made to say, that they do not require any 
 person to attend on their behalf.]
 
 EVIDENCE. 
 
 277 
 
 '/'/if Ciimmissiimers 
 
 of Eilucniirm in 
 
 Jrelimil, ('liiri'-slrrrl, 
 
 Duhlin — continued. 
 
 Dublin, ].')tii November, 1856. DnuLitr. 
 
 Fresent : — SIakqukss of Kiluaue, Cliainnau ; Kev. Dr. Gr.wes, Mr. Stei'hens, and Dr. 
 
 Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Commissioners of Educatioi^ in Ireland, Clare-street, Dublin (continued.) 
 
 William Cotter Kyle, ix.d., furtlier examined. 
 
 23n8(). ily Lord, before tlie business connected with the Governors of Erasmus Smith's W'illiani Cotter Kyle, 
 Schools commences, I would, witli your Lordship's permission, and without any comment '''"''■" '■'■"' 
 or observation on my part, ])ut in evidence a document in reference to the mana^-i^n-.ent of 
 the Dunaannon School Estate l)y tlie Commissioners of Education. Tiiis document is a 
 letter, atklresscd to me by Jlr. Wann, and dated Markethill, November 14tli, 1850 : 
 
 " Sir, — I have seen some severe remarks in the Freeman's Journal of Wednesday last, 
 relative to the treatment the Dungannou School Estate tenants have received. It says: 
 ' During the famine, wlien other landlords were fostering their poor tenants, paying their 
 poor-rates, and deducting large per oontages from their rents, the Board fired 3ry2 notices 
 to quit.' Now, as regards the notices, my evidence before the Endowed Scliool Commis- 
 sion explained tliera ; but, unfortunately, I did not anticipate the subject on which I would 
 be examined. If I had, I could have stated, when on oath, that since I became agent in 
 184G, these tenants have received at various times (per enclosed document) abatements in 
 their rents to the extent of £767 175. 2hl.; that during same period loans were made to 
 them in lime, £819 lis. lOd.; seeds,'£535 8s. lOld.: cash, £145 lO.s. ; guano, &c., 
 £57 4.9. lO^d. ; in all, £2,.320 \2s. dhl. ; besides, those unable to pay their rent, the sum 
 of £IG9 4s. was worked up by them in draining their fai-ms, and for which they pay 
 interest; so that £2,489 16s. 9^d. has been used in various ways, for the express purpose 
 of assisting the tenants and iinproving tlieir condition. Premiums to the extent of £56 
 were also granted as a spur to a better cultivation of green crops. I make this statement, 
 feeling that it may be interesting to tlie Board ; and if you had any way of bringing it 
 before the Endowed School Commissioners, I think it woidd be well. 
 
 " I am, &c,, 
 
 (Signed) " W. Wann." 
 
 Memorandum of Abatements in IIent granted to Dungannon School Estate Tenants 
 since 1846, and Loans to them during same time, &c. : — 
 
 
 
 
 Loans to Tenants free of Interc 
 
 st ; a year's credit driven or 
 
 
 Suras lent for 
 
 Premiums 
 
 Years. 
 
 Abatement 
 allowed ill Rent. 
 
 Lime 
 
 , and the best Seeds supplied at tirst coat 
 
 prices. 
 
 
 Draining, interest 
 
 at five per cent. 
 
 put to Kent. 
 
 ;»Ilo\ved 
 
 Tenants in 
 
 Money. 
 
 
 Lime. 
 
 Seeds. 
 
 Lent Cash. 
 
 Manure 
 
 s. 
 
 
 £ s. 
 
 d. 
 
 £ s. 
 
 (/. 
 
 £ .1. d. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 £ s. 
 
 :l. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 1846 
 
 180 4 
 
 m 
 
 129 3 
 
 4 
 
 41 11 6 
 
 - 
 
 9 
 
 U. 
 
 „ 
 
 _ 
 
 1847 
 
 25 3 
 
 2 
 
 69 10 
 
 8 
 
 156 3 
 
 73' 7 
 
 7 18 
 
 8 
 
 77 12 
 
 14 10 
 
 1848 
 
 41 14 
 
 9J, 
 
 69 6 
 
 8 
 
 45 5 11 
 
 33 12 
 
 7 10 
 
 H 
 
 87 12 
 
 17 
 
 1849 
 
 119 9 
 
 5 
 
 90 19 
 
 9 
 
 27 lo 5 
 
 7 8 
 
 8 10 
 
 7 
 
 4 
 
 17 5 
 
 1850 
 
 129 6 
 
 51 
 
 93 2 
 
 8 
 
 44 10 8 
 
 7 12 
 
 8 10 
 
 U 
 
 _ ■ 
 
 7 5 
 
 1851 
 
 133 IS 
 
 9 
 
 90 15 
 
 4 
 
 42 12 l.i 
 
 4 3 
 
 7 17 
 
 2 
 
 ^ 
 
 
 1852 
 
 137 19 
 
 9 
 
 82 18 
 
 
 
 48 13 2 
 
 3 10 
 
 _ 
 
 
 _ 
 
 
 1853 
 
 _ 
 
 
 84 12 
 
 8 
 
 44 17 10 
 
 4 15 
 
 1 8 
 
 3 
 
 _ 
 
 _ 
 
 1854 
 
 _ 
 
 
 57 2 
 
 6 
 
 4(5 
 
 _ 
 
 _ 
 
 
 _ 
 
 _ 
 
 18.55 
 
 - 
 
 
 52 
 
 3 
 
 38 4 
 
 G 3 
 
 6 9 
 
 10 
 
 *~ 
 
 - 
 
 
 767 17 
 
 2^ 
 
 819 11 
 
 10 
 
 i)-iii 8 lu; 
 
 140 10 U 
 
 57 4 
 
 lOi 
 
 1 09 4 
 
 56 
 
 Summary. 
 
 Abatement allowed tenants in rent, - . . . 
 
 Loans of seeds, lime, lent cash, and manures, as above. 
 Sums lent tenants for drainage at five per cent, per annum, 
 rremiums paid to tenants for growth of green crops. 
 
 £767 
 
 17 
 
 2i 
 
 1.552 
 
 15 
 
 7 
 
 169 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 5(i 
 
 
 
 
 
 14th November, 1856. 
 
 £2,545 16 9i 
 ^.Signed) W. Wann, Agent to Commissioners 
 
 of Education. 
 
 The Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. (continued.) The Got-eniurs ,./ the 
 
 23987. Secretary — The business to be brought before the Commissioners to-day is with Enixmus' Smith' Esq. 
 respect to the examination of the law agent of the Governors of the Schools founded by — cmitinued. 
 Erasmus Smitli, Esq. In December last, and at a later period, when the examination of 
 the Governors was proceeded with, the investigation of matters connected with the law 
 agents' accounts, which was tlien postponed, it is now to be taken xip, and Mr. Fetherston, 
 who is the acting member of the firm of M'Causland and 1^'etherston, has been summoned.
 
 278 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., sworn and examined. 
 
 The Goveniom of ti.a 23988. Cliairman. — Are you law agent to- the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith's 
 
 Erasmus SmitI-, Esq. Schools .•'— 1 am. 
 
 G Fetherston, Esq. 23989. Howlong have you been Law agent ^ — I think about twenty-five or twenty-six years. 
 
 23990. The Commissioners require to examine you, in consequence of evidence that was 
 given by Mr. Barlow at a former court "held here, iu which he said : — " Mr. Fetherston 
 was then agent of the Board, and has been so for many years, and can give you every 
 information, not only on this subject, but also with respect to the leger ; because 1 liave 
 little doubt that this leger was prepared, if not luider his directions, at least under the 
 directions of some person in his office."' And Jlr. Hamilton says: — "Mr. Fetherston is 
 seldom absent from either the Committee or General Board. I do not know that he was 
 absent more than once or twice. Dr. Graves a.sked — There is, therefore, a continuity in 
 the trau.sactions of the business of the Governors? — Mr. Fetherston, being present, adds 
 very much to that." AVho has charge of the title-deeds belonging to the Board? — They 
 have most of them in their own custody ; I have some few of them. 
 
 23991. Is there any schedule of these deeds? — ]S'ot in my pos.session. 
 
 23992. Mr. Stephens. — I believe, Mr. Fetherston, that there are two governing Charters, 
 and three governing Statutes — the governing Charters are, one granted by King 
 Charles II., in 1U69, and the other by William IV., in 1833. The governijig Statutes 
 are, 10 Geo. I., 21 and 22 George III., cap. 27, and 2.') George III., cap. 55. Am I 
 correct? — I think you are. 
 
 23993. Win you be so kind as to refer to page 18 of the printed charter of Charles II. ? 
 —I have it. 
 
 23994. The first clause provides that the " treasurer shall, yearly and every year, mate 
 and give up a true and just account of all his receipts, disbursements, and arrears of rent 
 as shall be by him received and disposed of" Will you now turn to page 23. And " That 
 it shall be lawful for the Governors to keep in their hands, and to their own use, so much 
 of the rents and profits of the lands as shall be sufficient to defray and bear all the charges 
 and expenses, which tliey shall or may be put to, in tlie execution of the several trusts, or 
 in defence of their title to the premises?" — I see that clause. 
 
 23995. Will you now turn to 10 George I., page 39? — I have it before me. 
 
 23996. The last clause in that page provides that, " If at any time the rents, revenues, or 
 profits of the said lands and tenements, so set apart by the said Erasmus Smith, shall hajjpen 
 to increase to greater yearly value than they now yield, or if any part of the present yearly 
 rents of the said lands shall be, and remain in tlie hands of the treasurer or the Governors 
 of the said schools, over and above the annual jiayments, charges, and expenses by this 
 Act appointed to be made out of the said lands, that then it shall and may be lawful to 
 and for the Governors to apply and dispose of the i-esidue and overplus towards some 
 public use or work in said college or hospital, in putting out poor children to school, or 
 apprentices, or in setting up and founding one or more English school, or schools." If you 
 now turn to page 22 of the printed charter of King Charles II., you will see surplus 
 defined : — " And the residue of all the revenues and rents which shall remain, after all the 
 charges and payments fully made and satisfied, shall be distributed and applied in manner 
 following." Now turn to the printed charter of King William IV., page 3 : " And further, 
 that the said treasurer, and also the register and agent, and all and every other the officers 
 and persons employed by the said Governors, or their successors, in the receiving, keeping, 
 paying, and disposing of the moneys, rents, revenues, and other the goods and treasure 
 belonging to tlie said schools, shall yearly, and every year, or oftenei", whensoever 
 thereunto required by the said Governors and their successors, or any five or more of 
 them, make and give up a true and just account of all his and their receipts, disbursements, 
 balances, and arrears of rent, and of all and every such sum and sums of money, and other 
 the goods and revenues of and belonging to the said schools, as shall have been by him or 
 them received or disposed of as afore.-^aid, unto the said Governors." You told Lord 
 Kildare, Mr. Fetherston — and the fact also appears from Mr. Barlow's evidence — that you 
 have been law adviser to Erasmus Smith's Board for the last twenty-five years? — I have 
 been law agent. 
 
 23997. Will you tell mc whether, under the clauses I have read from the Charters, the 
 Governors are not bound to have yearly accounts of tlieir assets and liabilities made out? — 
 Tliat is a matter which you can infer, as well as I can. 
 
 23998. I ask you, as law agent to tliis lloard for twenty-five years, and as the porsou 
 wlio advised tlieni in tlieir legal proceedings, have you a sliadow of doubt but that tliat is 
 the case ? — Not the least doubt. 
 
 23999. Was there not a new system of office accounts prejiared by you, and ordered 
 to be adopted by the Board, on the 23rd of November, 1843? — I never prepared any 
 system of accounts. 
 
 24000. It has been so stated in evidence. [Draft of a system of office accounts is handed 
 to witness]. — That was not ])re])ared Ijy me. 
 
 24001. Was it i)re]iared in your ofiice ? — I believe it was prepared by a book-keeper, 
 employed for that purpose. 
 
 24002. Was it presented by you to tiie Board ? — 1 tliink not. I am not sure, I liiivo 
 no recollection of doing so. 
 
 24003. Bead the minute of tlio Standing Committee of the 2:5rd November, 1843 :— 
 
 " The law ngent's draft system of office accounts, postponed from 14th instant, was again
 
 EVIDENCE. 279 
 
 submitted. Ordered — That same bo approved of; tliat the office accounts commence, J)ui!lik. 
 
 on said system, from the Ist ]Srovoml)or instant ; that an experienced person l)c employed ^^^^ a„^^„ „fii,e 
 to open tiie accounts accordingly, and that proper Ijooks lie provided for the purjjose." — Sclionisjhiimieil hi/ 
 It now appea,rs I did produce "tliis draft to the Jioard, hut 1 had no recollection of doing so. EroswH-i'Smith, E<q. 
 It was prepared by Mr. Hughes, wlio is a book-l:ec])pr of mine, and wlio devotes himself G. Fitliorston, Rsq. 
 to tlio managennnit of tliose accounts, whicli I am not competent to take charge of myself 
 
 24004. If that draft Iiad been adopted, would it not have been in compliance with the 
 charter of William IV.? — I su])pose it would. 
 
 24005. Look at it, and tell mo does not tliat .system contemplate annual account.'-', 
 showing the assets and liabilities of the Governors ? — 1 have no doubt of it at all. 
 
 24000. Was not that system partially acted on? — I protest I do not know. 
 
 2-1007. You have, it appears, attended every meeting of the Board; and iMr. liarlow, 
 in )-cply to a question of mine, says: — "Mr. Fetlierston was then agent of the Board, 
 and has been so for many years, and can give you every information, not only on this 
 subject, but also witli respect to tlie leger ; •because 1 have little doubt that this leger 
 was ])repared, if not under his directions, at least under tlio directions of some person in 
 his office." — It would seem that the fact of its being prepared in my office by Mr. Hughes, 
 is the direction he alludes to. 
 
 24008. But have you regularly attended the meetings of the Board? — I have. 
 
 2400f). Then you must know whether any order was made, as to the adoption of this 
 system? — When I attend the meetings of the Board, I do not give my undivided attention 
 to all that is going on, e.xcept tliere be some subject under discussion, on which I feel 
 myself competent to offer an opinion ; and as to the accounts of the Board, I never looked 
 into them, unless some question was raised on certain items proposed, and upon which I 
 always gave them the best judgment I could. 1 have nothing to say to the book-keeping 
 department at all. 
 
 24010. Is the book-keeping department under Mr. Thorp?— I should think so. 
 
 24011. [Mr. Eiistace Thorp. — I do not admit that, Mr. Stephens.] 
 
 24012. If you keep silent until Mr. Fetherston's examination has concluded, I shall 
 be happy to hear any explanation you have to offer ; but you have no right to interrupt 
 the witness, or interrupt my examination. Do you know any thing, Mr. Fetherston, 
 about the leger ? — I do not. 
 
 24013. Have you ever seen the leger? — As a matter of vision I must have seen it; but 
 I never examined it, or took any particular notice of it. 
 
 24014. Will you tell me, from the leger which is before you, when the first entry 
 was made, as to your bills of costs? — The first item I see entered is. May, 1S44, balance, 
 £959 05. Id. 
 
 24015. From whom am I to got information with respect to that leger — because Mr. 
 Barlow says in his evidence : " I know nothing of it, as I never looked into the leger in 
 my life. I am no accountant — I am not a book-keeper ; and if I did look to it, I dare say 
 1 would not be much Aviser than I am at present. I am glad to have the opportunity of 
 saying, I never looked into a page of it?" — If you would put my name to that' answer, it 
 woxdd do remarkably well. 
 
 240 1 G. Who is it that has charge of the leger? — I do not know. I thought, until 
 this moment, Mr. Thorp had. 
 
 24017. Mr. Thorp could not have charge of it, becau.?c he could not tell mo what the 
 moaning of " assets" was. — It appears, from a statement made to me by Mr. Hamilton, that 
 this logor was written up recently by Mr. O'Brien ; and if tliat be tJie case, it would be 
 impo.s.sible for me to know any thing about it. 
 
 24018. That leger was produced in court this time twelve months, but the particular 
 entries have been since written up. But you have never examined the leger until this 
 moment ? — Just so ; as an object of vision I may have seen it before. 
 
 24019. I believe, ilr. Fetherston, we have six bills of costs before us. The fir.st com- 
 mences January, 1835, and extends down to May, 1841, entitled, " Miscellaneous Costs;" 
 the second commences Jlay, 1837, and extends to August, 1841, four years, entitled 
 "Miscellaneous Costs for fifty-four schools;" the third commences December, 1841, and 
 extends down to December, 1852, eleven years; the fourth, entitled '■Miscellaneous 
 Costs." commences December, 1841, and extends down to February, 1852, eleven years ; 
 the fiftli, from December, 1852, down to March. 1856, throe years, entitled "Miscellaneous 
 Costs; ' the sixth commences January, 1853, and extends down to February, 1856, entitled 
 " Costs," throe years. What is the distinction between " Costs" and 'MiscellaueonsCosts." 
 Two of these bills of costs are entitled " Costs," and the remainder entitled "Miscellaneous 
 Costs?" — I take it, that the obvious meaning of the word "Miscellaneous" is, that the bill 
 of costs contains many different matters, mixed up ; whereas " Costs" may apply to some 
 particular cause or suit. 
 
 24020. Do not the bills for December, 1841 and 1852, which are entitled " Costs," 
 extend over a variety of matters? — They do. 
 
 24021. Well, that being so, what is the distinction? — I cannot give you any. 
 
 24022. It being clear that both under Statute George I. and the "Charter of William 
 IV., there should be accounts showing the annual assets and liabilities of the Governors, 
 why did you not render your accounts annually ? — I am afraid I cannot give you a satis- 
 factory answer to that question. 1 had so many things to do I could not get it done. 
 
 24023. Did tlio tenants pay you any costs on leases which were granted by the Board? 
 —They did.
 
 280 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 D cBU N. ,24024. The usual costs as between attorney aiul client? — No; the principal costs of 
 
 The Governors of the Icascs werc for tliosc Icases granted under the statute, in tlic town of Galway; and the 
 Scliooh/uunileil hi/ tenants paid a Ijulk sum for the costs, over and above the stamp duty. 
 Erasmuf'Smiih, ^v/. 24025. What was the amount ?— Three guineas. 
 G. Fetherston. Esq. 24026. Each tenant?— Each tenant. 
 
 24027. What did the costs amount to in the aggregate? — I do not know. 
 
 24028. Is not the lease which has been now put into your hands*a lease of the Drumachose 
 School, dated 26th February, IS 14 ?— It is. 
 
 24029. The parties to that lease are the Rev. Elias Thackeray, rector; the Lord Bishop 
 of Derry, and the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools. By that instrument one acre of 
 land is leased to the Governors for ever, in trust for a resident schoolmaster, to be 
 appointed by the Governors, to teacli children, selected by Governors, Church Catechism 
 and English, under direction of Governors. The Governors then bind themselves to 
 expend £300 on building a schoolhouse, and to pay £30 per annum to a schoolmaster as 
 long as they shall continue it for a schoolhouse; and in case they thought fit not to con- 
 tinue it as a schoolliouse, they covenanted to re-convey and surrender the premises to the 
 lessor. If you look to St.atute 10 George I., it says, "to set up and found one or more 
 Engli.sh school or schools." That being the case, I ask you, who have been tlie law agent 
 of the Board for the last twenty-five years, whether, in your opinion, 1 am correct in this 
 position of law, that the statute only enabled the Governors to set up and found scliools, and 
 not to make a grant, as in this case, to Mr. Thackeray of a house, to become his property. 
 The lease should have contained a clause, as tlie Kildare-placc leases do, under which the 
 Governors might sell tlie house in case it should cease to be used as a schoolhouse. Before 
 I ask you to answer the question 1 liave put to you. I will refer you to No. 3 Registry Book, 
 of 13th July, 1807, page 120. It says, "The Board finding that few applications have 
 been received for the establishment of English schools in consequence of the advertisement 
 ordered to be published at the last meeting, have desired that the said advertisement be 
 again inserted in the public papers, with the following addition thereto, viz., the quantity 
 of ground, which in no case will be required to exceed two acres, to depend on the 
 situation and other circumstances of tlie school. The Governors will, in all cases, endow 
 the school with an adequate salary for the master (of whom they are to have the appoint- 
 ment), and will give such assistance towards erecting the schoolhouse as the circumstances 
 of each case may appear to deserve." Then come the important words, " They can only 
 accept lands in perpetuity, or on very long tenures." Now, take the provision of the 
 statute I have directed your attention to, and also this resolution, and tell me whetlier you 
 do not think the Governors can only accept of lands in perpetuity, or on veiT long lea.ses, 
 as sites for schoolhouses ? — Yes; but this appears to be a grant made by Mr. Tliackeray. 
 
 24030. But you will find that the Governors were to expend £300 on building the 
 schoolhouse, and pay £30 per annum to a schoolmaster as long as they continued it as a 
 schoolhouse; and in case they ceased, they covenanted to surrender the premises to the 
 lessor, the advantage which he derived being, tliat the building became his property? — He 
 would, under such circumstances. 
 
 24031. Then a lease, under such circumstances, would bo a breach of trust, if your 
 answer to my question be correct ? — The original acceptance of tlie land might be an 
 improper condition, but I think iMr. Thackeray might have annexed any condition to the 
 grant he liked. 
 
 24032. But tlie Governors were not bound to take it; and, liaving taken it, it is 
 clear, looking to 10 George I., coupled with tlie resolution of tlie (Governors (not tliat I 
 
 ^ want that resolution to fortify the construction 1 put on tiio statute), tlioy were guilty of 
 ' a breach of trust ? — 1 quite agree with you ; it was a breach of trust. 
 
 24033. If you turn to 10 George I., you will sec this provision, that if, at any time, the 
 revenues and profits of the lands so set apart by Erasmus Smith shall grow less, tlien. in 
 such case, it shall be lawful for the Governors, and they are hereby emjiowered, to lessen 
 the number of tlic pensioners or exhibitioners of the College, or make such deductions 
 and abatement out of all or any of the jiensioners' or exhibitioners' salaries, or other yearly- 
 sum or sums of money continued to be paid liy tliem, as tliey shall think fit. Under this 
 Act, tliere is a special power given to the Governors from time to time to make such 
 deductions and abatements in salaries as tliey think proper? — Yes. 
 
 24034. Will you be so kind as to turn to that lease again ? — Yes. 
 
 _ 2403;"). You will find in tliat lease tlie Governors bind tiicmselves to pay a fixed salary of 
 £30 per annum, in direct ojiposition to the language of the .Act of Geo. 1.? — Tliat is tlie ease. 
 
 24030. Has tliat statute been controlled by any subsequent charter or Act? — 1 am 
 not aware that any change has taken place. 
 
 24037. There arc, tiicn, two breaclies of trust in that class of leases? — You are aware 
 this lease is of very early date. It was prepared by Mr. Cooper, wlio was at that time 
 the ofticcr of the lioard. 
 
 24035. Their registrar, I believe? — Yes. There were two brothers, Mr. Austin and Mr. 
 Samuel Cooper. 
 
 24031). They were joint agents and registrars? — I think so. I believe I once saw Mr. 
 Samuel. 
 
 24040. Did they jicrform all the secretary's work, and all the agency work? — Thoy did. 
 
 24041. And nothing was done by the law agent of the Board, except tlie purely legal 
 business ? — I do not know, as I was not law agent then. 
 
 * I'iV/c Evidence, Vol. 11., Documents.
 
 EVIDENCE. -281 
 
 24042. Would you not know by looking over tho ]):i])eis ? — I would not. ])ubun. 
 
 24043. Tlio loaso' wliiuli I now ])Ut into your liands. is dated .Si']iti.'inl)C'r 2 1st. 1824. and ,^ ^ 
 
 is a lease under the Lord Lieutenant's (Joninussionin-s for Buildini; ScIkkjIs?— Yes ; it lias '^srhn'Z"ih7mi"d In' 
 
 Mr. .lohn Litton's name jirinted to it. KruKmus' Smith, K»j. 
 
 24044. The Earl of Shannon appears to be tiie lessor, and tlic other jiarties, are the (;. i'"ctli(ri-ioB,K?q. 
 Hisbop of Cork and tlie minister of Lislco. It grants an acre of land to the minister and his 
 
 successors for ever, in trust, for the use of a resident schoolmaster, to be ajjpointcd by tlie 
 minister, to teacli cliildren selected l)y minister or master, I'higlit^h and aritlimetic. under 
 regulation of minister. I'liis being the trust, tlie minister covenants to e.\pend tiie i'.jO ho 
 received out of the jmiilic funds, and tlio i'TiO svd)scril)ed by liimself and (itheis, in er(!cting 
 a schoolhousc ; and 1 believe you will perceive tlicrc is no reversion to the grantor under 
 any contingency? — 1 do not see any. 
 
 24045. Could not that form of lease have lieen adojitcd for schools erected by the 
 Governors of Krasnuis Smith ; and, if adopted, wouhl ic not liave been consistent with the 
 governing charters and the governing statutes? — Tlie answer to that must be yes. 
 
 2404(). Have you any doubt about it? — No doubt : but the result has been, as you are 
 already aware, tliat Mr. Litton lias sold some of these sites under the Commissioners of the 
 Incumbered Estates Court, notwithstanding these well prepared leases. 
 
 24047. 1 am not responsible for Mr. Litton's law? — Nor am L 
 
 2404S. Tlio lease* which I now liand to you is dated 2ird February. 182.5. It professeR 
 to be a lease under the auspices of the Association ibr Discountenancing Vice. The parties 
 to that lease are, Sir Emanuel _Mooro, the lessor, the Bishop of Cork, and the minister and 
 churchwardens of the parish of Kathclarcn being the other jiarties. It grants one acre 
 of land to the minister and churchwardens, for tho use of a resident schoolmaster, to be 
 appointed by minister, to teach children selected by minister, English and Cliurch Cate- 
 chism, xmder direction of minister? — That is tho trust. 
 
 2404!), The minister then covenants to appoint masters, and there is ud reversion 
 to tho grantor under any contingency; could not that form of lease have been adopted 
 by the (Jovernors, witliout any violation of tlie governing charters or governing 
 statutes ? — Yes. 
 
 24050. Does not that lease make provision for the master to yield up the schoolhouse 
 at the wiitten request of the minister?— -It does, 
 
 24051. If that principle had been acted upon by the Governors of Erasmus Smith's 
 Schools, Would any sum of money have been saved in law costs? — I cannot answer for 
 that ; an obstinate man might refuse to give up possession, and compcd the bringing of an 
 ejectment. 
 
 24052. I will now direct your attention to a lease of September 28, 1840. It is a lease* 
 by Stephen Ram to the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools of one acre of land for ever, 
 in trust, for a resident sciioobnaster, to be appointed by the Governors? — Y'es. 
 
 24053. The Governors covenant to use the house only for a schoolhouse, in wliicli children 
 shall be taught according to the rules of the Governors, and in which the Holy Scriptures 
 shall be read, and the children instructed therein ; and the Governors also covenant to 
 keep the schoolhouse in substantial repair. Then comes a proviso, that if at any time the 
 school .shall be permanently discontinued, or that the Holy Scrijitures shall not be read in 
 sucli school, and tho children instructed therein, it shall be lawful for the lessor to re-enter, 
 and the Governors utterly to e.xpel and remove? — That is the case, 
 
 24054. What does that return, now placed before you, profess tu be? — 1 ne\er saw it 
 before. 
 
 24055. Dr. Hancock, will you read the title of that return ? 
 
 24056. \_Secretari/.- — This return was Ibrwarded to the Commissioners by Mr. Tliorp. on 
 behalf of the Governors, and is entitled, "lictuni from the Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., of all the schools ibr which a grant for building was 
 made by the Governors, since ItsOO, stating, with regard to eacli school, the amount of the 
 grant, the quantity of land conveyed, the aniount of private, or other subscriptions, towards 
 building, in addition to the grant from the Governors, and the date of the deed of con- 
 veyance, and the name of the person in whose custody it now is," With regard to the 
 lease v.hich has just been placed in ilr. Fetherstons hands, it is a lease for a school at 
 Gorey, county of Wexford, to which an acre of land was granted, in consideration of 
 which the Governors advanced, for the ]iurpo,se of huikJing the schoolhouse, the sum of 
 £200 : the private subscriptions amounted to £400; and the deed is in the cutstod}- of the 
 Governors.] 
 
 24057. From tliat return, Mr. Fetherston, does it not appear that £200 was granted 
 by the Governors to build the schoolhouse at Gorey in September, 1S40? — Y'es; it eo 
 appears from this document before me. 
 
 24058. AVill you be so kind as to turn to 10 Geo. I. It provides that tlio Governors 
 are to set up and found one or more English school or schools. That being so, it ajjpears 
 to me — and you have admitted it — that this statute only enabled the Governors to set up 
 and fotuid schools, and not to alienate their property ? — I think so. 
 
 24059- Tiiat lease, therefore, should have contained a covenant similar to that contained 
 in the Kildare-place leases ; by which, if the schoolhouse should cease to be used as a 
 sclioolhouse, the Governors would be enabled to indemnify themselves for their outlay ? — 
 It would have been better if such a clause was inserted. 
 
 * fide EviJence, Vol. II., Docuir.cnts, 
 
 Vol., IL 2
 
 282 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dbblin. 24060. Would it not have been in accordance witli the Act of Geo. I. ? — Yes. 
 
 . „ ] — f I . 2406 L Do you know how many leases were granted in that fomn? — I do not. 
 Schouk fminVed ini^ 24062. \ Secretary. — This return was accompanied by the original leases, and it appears 
 Eraanms' Smith, Esq. there wcre upwards of thirty-nine granted in this form.] 
 
 G. Fethcrston. Escj. 24063. Mr. Stephens. — Are you aware, Mr. Fetherston, how much money the Governors 
 expended on this precarious tenure ? — I am not. 
 
 24064. [Sccretarif. — A calculation has been made with regard to the sum expended on 
 such tenures, and it appears to amount to i'4.086 \3s. 2(:/.] 
 
 24065. Why did you not print those leases, as they are all one common form? — I cannot 
 give you any reason for it. I did not do it. 
 
 24066. Would it not have been less expensive ?— That would depend 
 
 24067. I am looking at it as a matter of practice ? — I do not think it would. 
 
 24068. Then the calculations on that subject in England are erroneous ? — I do not say so. 
 
 24069. In England, it is considered cheaper, after seven copies, to print every instru- 
 ment ? — I got instructions for the preparation of these instruments one or two at a time. 
 
 24070. Then, whatever you did in respect of these leases was under the directions of 
 the Governors ? — As to their jjrcparation ; but I received no directions from them as to 
 printing or not printing the leases. 
 
 2407 1. Are you aware what was the cost of preparing tliose leases ? — I am not now ; but 
 I suppose you will find it stated in the bills of costs. 
 
 24072. I have made a calculation that thirty-fotu- leases cost £3G2 18*-., including stamps 
 and maps. The document wliicli you now have before you is the Registrar's account 
 of expense of deeds of conveyance of forty-two catechism leases, and the charge is 
 £92 I9s. Sd.? — This appears to me to be an account of tlie expenses, paid for stamps and 
 the registry of conveyances, but does not include any thing for tlie preparation. 
 
 24073. This is the Registrar's account of the expense of deeds of conveyances of schools, 
 and entitled inside — "Account of the expenses paid for stamps and registry of convey- 
 ances to the Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools for the following schools, amounting to 
 fort3'-two," and the cost is i'92 I9s. 8d. ; and No. 22, a lease specially drawn, is charged 
 £4 8.?. Id., instead of £2 Os. Id. ? — -Perhaps there were two parts of it. 
 
 24074. What is the next document handed to you? — An account of stamps and registry of 
 deeds of conveyance of eighteen deeds for schools, the cost of which is set down as 4i36 13s. 
 
 24075. Will you be so kind as to refer to Committee Book of 2nd November, 1854, 
 page 356 ? — I have that page ojjen before me. 
 
 2407f>. I believe in that page it is stated — "Mr. Thorp reported that tlie dividends 
 on stock, purchased with railway and otlier moneys, are not regularly drawn and 
 credited to the Governors; and, also, that he had reason to suppose that the Governors 
 had never received their compensation from the Waterford and Limerick Railway Company 
 for portions of land taken from Mr. Sadliers and Captain Bradshaw's holdings. 
 
 "Ordered — That all matters counected with these moneys be referred to Mr. Fetherston; 
 that he inquire whether -the Secret.ary to the Bank of Ireland holds a general power of 
 attorney from the Governors, and that Mr. Fetherston shall make whatever arrangements 
 may be necessary." Do you know whether a minute is kept of every instrument the 
 Governors sign, such as a power of attorney ? — There is such a minute kept, I believe. 
 
 24077. If so, where was the necessity for making this inquiry ?— The execution of a 
 power of attorney to the Secretary of the Bank of Ireland might bo (I am now necessarily 
 speaking on surmise) on the Governors' books, but the contents of that power of 
 attorney — whether it extended to moneys of this character— might not appear on the 
 Gov(>rnors' books. 
 
 24078. Then it is an entry as to a document without containing substantial information 
 as to tlie nature of that document ? — I think that is an unfair inference, and I tell you 
 why. It might state there Avas tliis day sealed a power of attorney to the Secretary of the 
 Bank of Ireland, authorizing him to receive tlic dividends from time to time accruing due 
 on stock, to the credit of the Governors, and that would l)e a very substantial description. 
 
 24070. Would it not l)e very general ? — It would. 
 
 24080. The Governors, in such a case, would be obliged to go to you to acquire infor- 
 mation respecting it ? — If they found any tiling not in working order they might say, go 
 down and see is it suflicicnt. 
 
 24081. If they liad kept an abstract or cojiy of it they would have no occasion to do so? 
 — No, clearly. 
 
 24082. Then no copy of this power of attorney was kept? — As a matter of fact I do not 
 know. I believe there was not. 
 
 24083. If a copy was kept, then the order was unnecessary; but if a copy was not kept, 
 then the order was, of course, proper. Will you turn to page 140 of the Journal, and you 
 will see there an entry of Alarcli 18, 1848 : — " Portion of the Southern Estates [(urchascd 
 by the Great Southern and Western Railway Company. £450. 
 
 "December 19, ISOO — Site for Tipperary Union Workhouse, i'43 17-<. Id. 
 
 " June, iHol — Portion of the \Ve8terM l';states sold to Midland Great Western Railway 
 Company, £1,317 13s. 10'/. ; maidng, in the aggregate, £1,811 l\s. nd.' It a])pears, from 
 the next entry in the Journal, that this £1,8 11 was invested in stock, on March, 1848; 
 December 19, 1850; and Juno 18, 1851; and also that the dividends were allowed to 
 accumulate upon the stock so purcliased to the extent of £195 ~s. Sd. In whose hand- 
 writing are those entries made'/' — 1 do not Icnow. I never saw this book, to my knowledge, 
 before. I know nothing about it.
 
 EVIDENCE. 283 
 
 Eustace Thorp, Esq., examined. Udblin. 
 
 2i084. Mr. Stephens. — Who keeps that journal ? — I presume The Gumrmrs of iht 
 
 24085. Loolc to the hook, and tell nie in whose handwriting tlie entries in question are j§a'Zs'SM"tt'El,. 
 made? — Either in .Mr. 0'l»riens handwriting, the accountant employed by the Goveniors Kustaoe Thorp, Esq 
 at tlio request of the Commissioners, or that of his clerk. It came from his house. 
 
 2i03G. As you keep the books, can you tell me when it was these investments first 
 appeared in tlie accounts of the Governors? — I do not admit that I keep the books. 
 
 24087. Wiio is it that keeps the books, you do not, Mr. Fetlicnston does not, and, of 
 course, the Governors do not. Wiio does? — If you ask me who keeps all tlie lioohs, or 
 those books to whic!i you liavc l)oen referring, 1 do not, and 1 never undertook to keep 
 them. Any entries I have made were purely gratuitous ; made at my leisure time, tliat is, 
 time I could spare out of the current business of tlio office. But if you a.sked me who 
 made 
 
 2408S. Is it not the current business of the office to enter a sum of £l,811 in the 
 ledger? — It is entered in tlie books of the Bank of Ireland. 
 
 240S9. Is it entered in any book in your office? — It was not entered in any book 
 except tlie Minute Book, down to the time at wliich you examined the books in December 
 last. 
 
 24090. On being asked, by Lord Kildare, when you were examined on a former occasion, 
 when enumerating your duties, did you not say it formed part of those duties to keep the 
 accounts of the Board ? — That is riglit ; but there is a distinction to be taken there. If 
 you ask me do 1 keep all the books, ledger, journal, &c., I would say not ; but if you 
 ask me for whom I keep certain books, I woidd say for Mr. Hamilton, who is responsible 
 as Kegistrar. 
 
 24091. Then is Mr. Hamilton solely responsible ? — I do not say that. 
 
 24092. Are you responsible ? — I am not. 
 
 Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., further examined. 0. Fotherston, Esq. 
 
 24093. ilr. Stephens. — Are you aware whether that £ 1,8 II is treated as cash at the 
 Governors' disposal for liquidating their current liabilities? — I am not. 
 
 24094. Did you invest this stock on the Sth March, 1855 ? — It seems, from the entry in 
 the book, tliat I did ; but I have no recollection of the date. 
 
 24095. Is there any other book which can give me further information on the subject ? 
 — I cannot give you any information. 
 
 24096. Can you refer me to any book which will tell me when this investment first 
 appeared in the accounts of the Governors? — It appears that the £4S0 was invested March 
 15, 1848; and the £1.317 13,s. lOcZ., ISth.Tune, 1851. 
 
 24097. I cannot find any trace oT these investments appearing in the accounts prior to 
 7th jMarch, 1855. Can the officers of the Board who are present tell me whetlier I can find in 
 any book an entry of this investment prior to March 7, 1 855 ? — Perhaps this entry would 
 elucidate the matter — •' il'Causland and Fetherston, Drs. to Government stock. For 
 dividends on Government stock for land purchased by Eailway Companies, &c.. &c., which 
 accumulated previous to transfer of said stock to the Governors." Now, that stock may have 
 been, and I would almost venture to say was, purcliased, and standing in tlie name of the 
 Accountant-General in Chancery to the credit of the Governors, and was applied for and 
 got out on the 7th March, 1855, or thereabouts, and transferred to the Governors, together 
 M'ith the interest which had accumulated from the period when the sums were respectively 
 lodged. That is my inference, and I believe it to be a fact. 
 
 24098. Lot me under.stand the facts. This £1,811 was the produce of certain lands, 
 which were taken from the Governors by Bailway Companies, under special Acts of 
 Parliament. Tlien, of course, the money got into the Court of Chancery ? — That is the 
 only legal way a company can pay it. 
 
 240'.)y. It appears that tliis money, which has been paid under the Land Clauses 
 Consolidation Act, for laud belonging to the Governors of Erasmus Smith, got into tlie 
 Court of Chancery. Turn to the Charter of Cliarles II., and you wiU see that it is there 
 provided, tliat "neither the Governors nor their successors shall do, or suffer to be done, at 
 any time, any act or thing, whereby or by means whereof any of the manors, lands, tene- 
 ments, rents, reversions, annuities, or hereditaments of the said corporation, or any estate, 
 interest, possession, or property, of or in the same, or any of them, shall be conveyed, vested, 
 or transferred, in or to any other use M'hatsoever, contrary to the true meaning hereof, 
 other tlian by such leases as are hereafter mentioned, and that in such manner and form 
 as is hereafter expressed, and not otherwise." It appears to me, Mr. Fetherston, quite 
 clear that the Governors of Erasmus Smitlfs Schools, under the clause in tliis charter, and 
 wliich does not seem to have been controlled by any subsequent Act or Charter, had no 
 power to dispose of their lands, but only to grant leases? — I agree with you in that 
 proposition. 
 
 24100. If I understand aright, the produce of the lands so sold to the P.ailway 
 Companies, amounted to about £ 1,800, and that money was paid into the Court of 
 Clianccry. Where is tliat money now? — It was transferred to the Governors. 
 
 24101. Absolutely as cash? — As stock. 
 
 ■24102. And in their name? — It stands in their name. 
 
 24103 Have they control over it ? — They have. 
 
 Vol. II. ■ 2 2
 
 384 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 DtcLiN. 24104. Cannot the Governors meet their current liabilities with it, if occasion wci"e to 
 
 The Govenwr^- of ilu- '*i"i^6 '^ — ^ presume they could. I see nothinc; to prevent them. 
 
 Schouk founded by 24105. That being the case, will j-ou be so kind as to read — bearing in mind the Charter 
 
 Erasmus Smiilt, Esi). of Charlcs II., to whicli I liave particularly directed your attention — the G'Jth section of 
 
 G. FetUersUm, Ksq. sth ^"ic., chap. 18, and tell me under what circumstances the Court of Chancery allowed 
 
 you to get that money out of Court ? — I do not think you will expect me to tell you about 
 
 the (!ourt of Chancery ; but, in point of fact, they did give the money. 
 
 24106. Then, if they did, it w-as ni direct opposition to the Act of Parliament, because 
 you could only get that money out of the Court of Chancery, under tlic second contingency 
 mentioned, in the " purchase of other lands, to be conveyed, limited, and settled upon like 
 uses, trusts, and purposes, and in tlie same manner as the lands in respect of wliich such 
 money shall have been paid and settled." It does appear to me, looking at the Charter 
 of Charles II., and at the provisions of tliis Act of Parliament, that the money has been got 
 out of the Court of Chancery in an illegal manner. You could only take out tliat money, 
 in a legal manner, to invest it in lands ; and you had no right whatever to take that money 
 out for the Governors to de.al with it as cash to meet tlieir current liabilities'? — All I 
 have to say is, that the Court of Chancery gave that money, and tlie stock was transferred 
 to the Governors, 
 
 24107- Upon whose application was the stock so transferred? — The application was 
 made by me, on behalf of the Governors. 
 
 24108. Did you point out, when making that apijlication, the provision of the Charter 
 of (Charles II.'? — I will show you, if you wisli, the brief on which counsel moved, 
 
 24109. You arc the person to whom the Governors left the transaction of this business, 
 and I want to know what case you made out, in order to induce the Court of Chancery to give 
 out that money, in direct opposition to the Charter of Charles II., and in direct violation 
 of the Act of Parliament to which I have directed your attention ? — One of tlie groimds 
 of the application was, that the money was in court. 
 
 24110. You had no right to get this money, it could only have been paid out, according 
 to the provision of the Act of Parliament, for the purchase of other lands. In point of fact, 
 there is a technical word, applicable to this money, witii whicli you are acquainted, viz., 
 "money land." Wliat have you done with it ; has it been paid out as cash? — It has been 
 translerred to the Governors. 
 
 2!lll. Ascash'?— i'cs. 
 
 24112. The Governors had no right to that money, under the Act of Pailiament ; and 
 it has been illegally got out of the Court of Chancery, because they could only have got it 
 out for tlie purchase of other lands; and it is, in my opinion, subject to the same trusts, 
 and as inalienable as the estates of the Governors, under the Charter of Charles II.? — I 
 think it is; and I think they ought not to part with tliat stock, but ought to consider 
 it as land. 
 
 2411.3. The Court of Clianccry Iiad no right to give it out? — I cannot answer for the 
 Court of Chancery. 
 
 24114. But you, being a very eminent practitioner, as I am informed, must have known 
 tliat such was the construction of the Act of Parliament ? — -Yes ; but as to my eminence 
 yon may have been misinformed. 
 
 241 15. Are you aware whether there is any local Act, or general statute, ([ualifying or 
 altering the provisions of Sth Vic, caj). IS, sec. (39? — I am not. 
 
 24 1 16. After Mr. Fctherstou's e.Kamination has concluded, the Commi.ssioncrs will expect 
 some information from tlie officers of the ]5oard, as to the time when this investment 
 of £1,811 tirst appeared in the accounts of the Governors. Mr, Fetlierston says, he 
 knows notliing of the accounts; that it was not his business; and if there be any books 
 wiiich can afford information, they must be here, or in the office of the Governors; and 
 therefore, while I am continuing Mr. Fetherston's e.\amiiiation, Mr, Thorp or ^Ir, Hamilton 
 can refer to those books. 
 
 24117. Is tlic stock that was purcliascd with the £1,811 ear-marked? — in this leger 
 wliich is before me, and wliich I have seen for the iirst time to-day, it is not ear- 
 marked as stock, but it is ear-marked to the extent oi' its price at the otlier side. The 
 stock appearing in this book includes, as 1 believe, the stock purchased witii the Pailway 
 money, and, as such, is now standing to the credit of tlic Governors in the Bank of Ireland. 
 
 24118. Could not tlie Government stock so purchased be distinguished from stock over 
 whieli the Governors had absolute power of disposal'? — I think it would have been more 
 satisfactory if it li.ad been so kept. 
 
 2411!). Your answer, Mr. Fether.ston, is in accordance with the (Mitries in tliat book, 
 namely, tiiat tiiis stock ma}' be made available to meet tlic current liabilities of the Gover- 
 nors ? — Certainly. 
 
 24120. It is very jiossiblc that Mr. Hamilton or Mr. Thorp may have some other books 
 to explain it away ; but, so i'ar as regards tiic Icgcr, that is tiic only inference which can 
 bo deduced from the entries ap])caring in it. 
 
 24121. J will now proceed to the C'atechisni lea.^es, as Mr. Barlow says tlie Commis- 
 sioners will derive every information i'roin you. What docs that document, Dr. llaneock, 
 which you now hand to Mr. Fethcrston, jirofess to be ? 
 
 24122. [Secretary. — It is, " Return from the (Jovernors of the Sclioids founded by 
 Firasmus Smitli, Esq , of all the schools for which a grant for building was made by tlie 
 Governors, since 1800, stating, with regard to each school, tiie amount of the grant, the 
 quantity of land conveyed, the amount of private, and otlier subscriptions, towards build-
 
 EVIDKNCE. 285 
 
 ing, in addition to tlie grant from the Governors, and the dates of the deeds of conveyance, Dobhit. 
 
 and the names of tlie i)erRons in wlioso custody tliey now are."l ,„, ,. ^ , 
 
 X-. ^ . TT7-11 1 1 ■ 1 >« ji 1 ,1 r\ ^ ri 1 Tor-*'"' ' 'OVcntors i<f Ihf 
 
 2412.5. Will you be so kind, Mr. 1< ethcr.ston, as to turn to the Loonibe school r — 1 scIkioU founded by 
 know nothing of this document ; but I see that school written here. Erasmut SmM, Esq. 
 
 24124. When was it founded? — it does not appear from this document. G. Fttlieraton. Kgq. 
 
 24125. What was the e.\i)ense of the erection of that scliool to the Governors? — 1 liave 
 not the sliglitest idea. 
 
 24 ri(). 15e kind enough to tell me from the paper before you?— I see here the amount 
 of the grant was £1,4 li -Is. '.hi. 
 
 24 127. Was tliat school discontinued in 1847 ':' — This document says it was discontinued 
 in 1847. 
 
 241'^R. For wliat cause ?— In consequence of the falling oft' in the numbers. 
 
 24129. Docs it appear wiiat was the extent of land upon which tlic school was built ? — 
 It does not. 
 
 24130. Does it ai){)ear from that document whether the lease was surrendered to the Earl 
 of Mcath ?— It does. 
 
 24131. Was there a loss to the Governors of £1,411 ? — Speaking from this ju-ipcr, it 
 was A loss of £1,411 to the Governors. 
 
 24132. Do you see in that document an entry, " Castlerea, Roscommon, founded in 
 1811"? — From tliis paper, there appears to be Castlerea, Koscommon; tlie schoolhouse 
 was built at tlic expense of tlic Governors, and also from private donations. 
 
 24133. What sum of money did the Governors expend, as appears from that document 
 before you ? — £000. 
 
 24134. And how much money was derived from private donations? — £200. 
 
 24135. How much land was attached to the school ? — One acre. 
 2413{i. Wlicn was it discontinued? — In 1N40. 
 
 24137. From what cause? — The falling oft' in the attendance. 
 
 24138. I believe tJiat there is notliing stated as to the re-conveyance of the site? — 
 Speaking entirely from this document nothing appears on that point. 
 
 24l3'J. Kilskier School, county Meath, was, I believe, built at the expense of the 
 Govei-uors? — It appears tliat £300 was granted by the Governors, and in the column for 
 private subscriptions, are the words, " not known " 
 
 24140. How many acres of land were attached? — Two acres. 
 
 24141. When was it discontinued? — In 1849. 
 
 24142. Does it appear what became of the premises? — Yes; they were surrendered to 
 the grantor. 
 
 24143. Is the cause of surrender stated ?—IS'o. 
 
 24144. Will you turn to the entry of Blennerville School, Kerry, founded 1812. How 
 much did the Governors expend on the building? — £300. 
 
 24145. AVhat v.-as tlic amount of ]jrivafe donations? — Not known. 
 2414f). How much land was attached ?— One acre. 
 
 24147. When was it discontinued?- — In 1839. 
 
 24148. What was the cause of the discontinuance? — Situation unfavourable. 
 
 24149 ^\'hat became of the premises? — This document says, " surrendered to grantor, 
 and salary transferred to new scliool.' 
 
 24150. Now go to •• Sturgan, Armagh." Was it founded in 1812 ? — Yes. 
 
 24151. At what cost was it built?— It appears that the grant was £300 from the 
 Governors, and under the head private subscriptions, the words, "not known." 
 
 24152. How many acres of land were attached ?— Two acres. 
 
 24153. When was it discontinued ? — In 1850. 
 
 24154. Wliat was tlio cause of the discontinuance? — Scliool having dwindled into au 
 inftint school. 
 
 24155. Is there any information contained in the document before you, as to the re-con- 
 veyance of the site ? — ISo. 
 
 241.C'(). Will you be so kind as to turn to " Dyscrt, Kilkenny." Was that school founded 
 in 1812? — It appears so ; £300 was granted "by the Governors; the amount of private 
 subscriptions not known. Two acres of land, and discontinued in 1S42, in consequence of 
 falling oif in the atti'udance. 
 
 24157. Is there any tiling stated as to the re-conveyance of the site? — No. 
 
 24158. " liosdroit,' county Wexford." when does it appear to have been founded? — 
 In 1812. It was built at a cost to the Governors of £300 ; private subscriptions 
 not known. 
 
 241.">9. How many acres of ground were attached? — Two acres. 
 
 S41l)0. When was it discontinued? — In 1^5l), in consequence of tlie falling off" in the 
 attendance. 
 
 24161. Is there any thing stated as to the re-conveyance of the site ? — No. 
 
 241G2. '■ Irvinestown, Fermanagh; founded in IS 12!" At what cost was it built? — £300. 
 
 24103. What was the amount of private donations? — Not known. 
 
 24104. How many acres of ground were attached ? — Two acres. 
 
 211f;5. When was it discontinued ?— In 1S41, .and salary transferred to Castlearchdall 
 School, in same ])arisli. 
 
 241(i(j. la there any tiling stated as to the reconveyance of the site? — No. 
 
 24167. Are the sites in possession of the Governors? — I do not know : the fiict is 
 
 241 GS. Mr. Crawford, one of the Assistant Commissioners, wlio visited this place, states,
 
 ■2Su ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dublin. tliat as to Rosdroit ScLool, the land is in the possession of the landlord ? — I would say 
 
 . so, ■without any positive knowledge on the subject, from the clause of redemption in the 
 
 1 ht Gciernorsv/ t e jgjjg^ when the school has been discontinued for a length of time. 
 Erasmus Smiih, Esq. 24169. \V as " ivilrca, county DciTV, founded m 1812/ — It appears so. 
 G. Fothprstnn. Esq. ' 24170. At what cost was it built to the Governors? — £(i50. 
 
 24171. What was the amount of private donations? — £216 13s. 4d. 
 
 24172. How many acres of land were attached? — Two. 
 
 24173. When was it discontinued ? — In 1S4S. 
 
 24174. Is there any cause stated ? — No. 
 
 24175. To whom were the premises re-conveyed? — They ajjpear to have been sur- 
 rendered to the Mercers' Company, the grantors. 
 
 24176. •• Gortin, Tyrone." When was it founded? — In 1813. 
 
 24177. What did it cost the Governors? — £300. Private donations not known. 
 
 24178. liow much land was attached ? — Two acres and four perches. 
 
 24179. When was it discontinued? — In 1848; in consequence of the falling oft' in the 
 attendance. 
 
 24180. To whom were the premises surrendered? — This document says grantor: 
 but Mr. Hamilton says it has not been surrendered, and is one of tlie best schools under 
 the Board. 
 
 241 SI. [Arthur S. Crawford, Esq., Assistant Commissioner. — It is still in operation' 
 two miles from Gortin. 
 
 24162. Rev. H. Hamilton.— The school of Gortin is the best country school in Ireland.] 
 
 24183. When was " Portglenone, Antrim," founded? — It appears to have been founded 
 in May, 1813. 
 
 24184. IIow much did it cost the Governors? — £450; and private subscriptions, £150. 
 
 24185. What was the quantity of ground attached?— One acre. 
 
 24186. When was it discontinued? — In 1848; inconsequence of falling 06' in attendance. 
 
 24187. To whom were the premises surrendered ? — To grantor. 
 
 24188. When was '^ Clonashe" founded ?— In 1813. 
 
 24189. IIow much did it cost the Governors? — £300 ; private donations not known. 
 
 24190. How many acres of ground were attached ? — Two acres. 
 
 24191. W^hen was it discontinued ?— In 1839. 
 
 24192. For what cause? — The falling ofi' in attendance. 
 
 24193. To whom were the premises surrendered? — The grantor. 
 
 24194. When was "Drumachose" founded? — In 1814. 
 
 24195. IIow much did it cost the Governors? — £300; private donations, not known; 
 an acre of land. 
 
 24196. Yv'hen was it discontinued? — In 1836 ; and premises surrendered to grantor. 
 
 24 197. When was " Rathmore" founded ? — In 1814 ; cost £300 ; two acres of land ; and 
 discontinued in 1851 ; and premises re-conveyed to Nicholas Evans, Esq., representative 
 of grantor. 
 
 24I9S. A summary of the evidence you have given from that document may be 
 given. Six schools have been discontinued, in consequence of the falling off in the 
 attendance ; five schools, for causes not stated ; one school, in consequence of the situa- 
 tion being unfavourable ; and another school, because it became an infant school. There 
 was expended on these schools, by the Governors, £5,807, and there were twenty acres of 
 land attached to them, all of which have reverted to the original grantors ; the private dona- 
 tions amounted to £677, making an aggregate of £6,484 ; and if we estimate the twenty 
 acres of land at £33 an acre, they wdl produce £660, making a grand total of £7,144. 
 The loss of this sum of money to the Governojs v.ould not have taken place, if the leases 
 had been drawn in accordance with the Charter. 
 
 24199. I will now direct your attention to the Scripture leases: Lincnhall-street, Dublin, 
 was founded, 1 believe in 1837, and discontinued in 1845. What was the cause of the 
 discontinuance ? — Tlie cause stated in the document before me is in consequence of its 
 unsatisfactory state. 
 
 24200. Can you tell me how this unsatisfactory state of things occurred in Dublin? — I 
 cannot. 
 
 24201. AVho can give me that information? — I presume it can be given to you I'rom the 
 minutes, entered on the Board books by the Registrar, or Mr. Thorp. 
 
 24202. " Carrickfergus, Antrim" — it was founded, I believe, in 1841 ? — Yes. 
 
 24203. I believe the cost to the Governors was £200? — Yes, and the jirivate donations 
 £-'00. 
 
 24204. How much gi-ound was granted ? — A lot of waste ground. 
 
 24205. What became of the premises? — It is stated they were made over to Wilson's 
 trustees. 
 
 24206. Can you give me any explanation respecting it ? — Not the slightest. 
 
 24207. This school was founded in 18 H, and you were then law agent? — I was. 
 2420S. Who can give me the information ? — I presume, the minute books. I have not 
 
 the remotest recollection about it, or J would give you tlio iiifoimation at fince. 
 
 24209. I want to know from whom I can get tlie information? — 1 should tliink that the 
 minute books of that date will give you the information, or tlie registrar. 
 
 24210. When was " Collon, Armagh," founded ?— In 1S42; built at a cost of £104 2.y. -id. 
 to the Governors; private donations, £52 \s. Id. There is no quantity of land stated, 
 but the word " site" is Avritten.
 
 EVIDENCE. 287 
 
 24211. What was the cause of tlie discontinuance? — The cause assigned here is this: — Vmun. 
 "Tills school not liaving been buccossCuI, the promises were re-conveyed to tlie grantor." yy^ Governors of the. 
 
 24212. Tlie Governor.s expended £304 2s. Ad. on these schools, wJiich lias been lost. Schools fuim Jed by 
 and which would not have been the case, if there had been inserted that clause in the ^■^'•"«""< ^'""■'/'. ^'•?- 
 lease, to which I have directed your attention — if, in point of fact, the provisions of 10th '^- l^fthcrston, Esq. 
 George I. had been strictly carried out? — Yes ; if the Governors had not surrendered the 
 
 premises, they would iiavc them still. 
 
 242i:i. Will you now turn to the ]\Iiscellaneou8 Costs Book, No. 4. The costs from 
 February, 1841, to 1854, amount to £!):55 11.?. Id.; and I may as -woll tell you, at the 
 outset, that my objection to these bills of costs is, that £208 out of this £1)35 11*. Id, 
 appear to have been charged for work which properly belonged either to the secretaries of 
 the Governors, or to the agents. I do not blame you for doing this work ; but if the secretaries 
 and agents had performed their respective duties, this £208 would have been saved to the 
 charitv. I will get the secretary. Dr. Hancock, to road some illustrations of what I mean. 
 
 24214. [Secretart/. — This book, from which I read, is the Miscellaneous Cost Book of 
 Mr. Fetherston, as the solicitor of the Governors of the schools founded by Erasmus 
 Smith, Esq. It runs from 1841 to 1852. I will now read a few entries, of the description 
 Mr. Stephens has alluded to. Under the date of February, 1842, is the following entry: — 
 
 " Attending registrar, on his handing us order, referring the agent's accounts and rental 
 of the southern estates to us for investigation ; and also to see that the accounts, as 
 well as the rental of the estate, were made out on a proper basis, and conferring 
 thereon, 6s. 2d. 
 
 " To our time and attendance in collecting the accounts, with the several leases, minute 
 books, and other documents of the Governors, when found the accounts very inaccurate, 
 and noting various discrepancies therein ; making observations on the accounts and rental, 
 and correcting same fully for the guidance of the agent in his future accounts, which 
 occupied three days, at two guineas per, £6 6s. ; taxed off to £3 10s. 6d. 
 
 " Drawing observations on the result of our investigation of the accounts, £l 4s. 8d. 
 
 "Fair copy, 16s. ; taxed off" to 6s. 2d. 
 
 " Writing the agent ; returning the accounts and rental ; enclosing our observations 
 thereon, and mstructing him to have same and his future accounts corrected accordingly, 
 3s. Id. 
 
 "Copy observations to scud therewith, 16s.; making the total costs, as ch.arged, 
 £9 lis. lid] 
 
 24215. All th;it business appears to me, Mr. Fetherston, to be secretary's work. It is 
 the duty of the registrar to keep the accounts of the Governors, and there is not one bit 
 of law in the whole business. 
 
 24216. Will you read, Dr. Hancock, some more entries. 
 
 24217. [Secretari/.— Under date October 24, 1846, is— "Writing :Mr. Brad.shaw, that 
 Mr. Poe had been discontinued as the Governors' agent ; inquiring to what period his rent 
 had been paid ; and when the last payment was made, to enable us to settle jMi-. Foe's 
 account, 3s. \d." Like letter to Mr. Hevvston, 2s.; and like letters to a number of other 
 tenants, in all twenty-five in number, at a charge of 2s. each letter, postage paid. 
 
 " Perusing letter from Jlr. Kearney, in reply to our letter, stating the sums paid by 
 him on account of his rent, the period up to which same made, the time of last payment, 
 2s. 6d. ;" and then follow sixteen similar entries, for perusing answers to letters, at a cost 
 of 2s. 6d. each.] 
 
 24218. There is nothing that requires an eminent solicitor to write letters, to ascertain 
 what payments were made by twenty-five tenants- That ought to have been done by 
 the agent, or the office of agent being vacant, by the secretai-y ? — No doubt but it could 
 be done. 
 
 24219. [Secretary. — There are entries, under date November 2, 1846 : — "Attending a 
 gentleman, who called to acquaint himself with the names of the Governors ; the security 
 required, and annual rental ; when we gave him the information sought, Gs. 2d. 
 
 " Attending another gentleman, who requested to know th;^ district in which the pro- 
 perty was situate ; the annual value, amount of security required, class of tenantry, &c. ; 
 and giving the necessary information, 6s. '2d. 
 
 Under date, November 4: — "Attending a gentleman, who called tliis day, maldng 
 inquiries in respect to the agency, and giving the necessary information, 6s. 2d. 
 
 November 5, " Attending a gentleman, who called this date in reference to the agency, 
 and particulars, if it was reipiired that the agent should reside on the lands; and giving 
 the necessary explanation, 6s. 2d. 
 
 " Beceived letter from IMr. Saurin, inquiring if Mr. Poe had been removed from the 
 agency ; and, if so, on what ground. 
 
 " Letter in reply, postage paid, 3s. 2d."] 
 
 24220. Could not that information have been given by the registrar, viz., that the office 
 of agent was vacant ; the sum of money that was requu-ed as security ; the fees that were 
 to be allowed ; and in what district the agent was wanted?— The Governors desired the 
 parties to appl}' to us. 
 
 24221. You were very right in charging for the information, but the reference ought 
 not to have been made to you. It was not soHcitors' work ; it was a duty which belonged 
 to the office of rearistrar.
 
 288 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dl'HLlN. 
 
 77i« Ooveruoi's o/ the 
 
 Schools founded hit 
 Erasinim SmUIi. K<q. 
 
 G. Fwtherstoii. K<ii. 
 
 21222. \_Secretary — In page 132, under date November 16, 184(J, arc these entries: — 
 
 " Received letter from Mr. Hunt, request'n,:^ particular advice in reference to the leases 
 of the respective tenants on this estate, with short abstract of donoininations of land 
 directed on each lease, 2s. 6rf. 
 
 '• Perusing same, 2s. 6d. 
 
 " Perusing the several leases for this purpose, eighty-five in number, at Is. Gd., £(j 7s. Gd. 
 
 "Draft abstract and returns to the queries, seven pages, £l l.v. 7'/. 
 
 " Fair copy, 14s. 
 
 •'Like for "Mr. Hunt. 14s. 
 
 " Copy rental, as made out in 1837, .showing rents then payable by tenants, eleven pages 
 boolc-wise, £l 2s. 
 
 " Writing Mr. Hunt therewith, and paid, 3s. Gd." 
 
 Making a total of £10 5s. Id. for tliat business, and only 2s. 6d. taxed off.] 
 
 24223. These are only illustrations of the class of business which, in my opinion, sliould 
 have been done by the registrar, or agent of the Board ; and I think it right to state 
 that the Commis.sioners are unanimous in tliat o))inion. There are six bills of costs before 
 me, from January. 1S3.5, to February, l~-56, and the aggregate amount is £3,412. You 
 have before you a bill of cossts. from January. 1835, to May, 1841 : who attended the 
 taxation of that bill of costs? — I do not believe tliere was any attendance on behalf of the 
 Governors. 
 
 24224. Turn to your bill of co.sts, from March, 1837. to August, 1841. and toil me who 
 attended the taxation of that bill, on behalf of the Governors ? — There does not appear 
 to have been any attendance ; but I should state, it was not the pi-acticc. wlien a bill of 
 costs was taxed between solicitor and client, to require any attendance. There has been 
 a change, within t'.ie last few years, with respect to the taxation of law costs. 
 
 24225. May I take this as a fact, that with respect to your bills of costs extending from 
 .Tanu:iry, 1835, to March, 1850, no person attended tlicir taxation on behalf of the 
 Governors? — Except myself. I attended, and produced to the blaster documents, showing 
 the amount of business done. 
 
 24"i2fj. That may be the practice in Ii-eland. but a dilTerent practice prevails in England. — 
 And to this day the same practice continues in all, except the common law courts, wliicli 
 require an attendance to be stated in the requisition for taxation. 
 
 24227. I see there is a difterence witli respect to your bills of costs, whicli extend from 
 January, 1853, to February, 1850. Tlie gentleman named to attend the taxation of these 
 bills, on belialf of the Governors, is Stephen 11. Fetherston ? — lie is my son, but his 
 attendance was only nominal. 
 
 24228. Was it not a perional attendance ? — A nominal attendance. 
 
 24229. Chairman. — The Commissioners liavo no further questions to put to you, Mr. 
 Fetherston ; but if you have any statement to make, with respect to the evidence you 
 have given to-d;iy, we shall be happy to hear it? — I have no statement to make. 
 
 RcT. H. ITamiltou. llev. Hucfh Hamilton sworn and examined. 
 
 24230. Rev. Dr. Graves. — Are you aware under what circumstances tlie Linenhall-strect 
 school was discontinued in 1845? — 1 find it stated, in the list furnished to the Commis- 
 sioners, tliat it was discontinued in 1845. In the Registry-book, of tliat date, 1 find that 
 tlie i'ollowing order was made: — "That the male and female schools at Linenhall-street 
 be discontinued at Cln-istmas next ; and tliat power is jiercby given to the Cominittoe to 
 dispose of tlie Jiouse." Tlien in July, 1845, 1 lind this minute: — "The report of Williams 
 and Sou upon Linenh.all-street house was read; and it appearing tlierelVom that it is 
 in a very dilapidated condition, and that the expense of putting it in substantial repair 
 would be considerable — Ordered — That j\Ir. Fetherston be requested to surrender the 
 premises." Long befon^ tliat. tlie Governors had evidently determined to surrender them; 
 but 1 cannot give the particulars, without having the reports before nic. 
 
 242.il. Is there any statement in the Registry-book as to the causes of its being discon- 
 tinued? — ^It is very probable it was discontinued on the Inspector's Rejiort. 
 
 242.'32. Perhaps you would find the cause stated in the minutes of the Standing Com- 
 mittee? — I find the resolution of the General Board to discontinue the school, but where 
 the recommendation came from, upon which that resolution was grounded. I cannot find. 1 
 cannot find that it came from the Standing Committee, and tlicrefore it must have come 
 from the Sub-Committee, who had the liisjiector's I'ejiort bei'ore them. Tiie Sub-Com- 
 mittee, who read the report, made a resolution for the dis^eontinuance of the school, upon 
 which the General Board acted ; but I will find the i)articulars, if it be desirable, in the 
 office when I go home. 
 
 24233. You w'ill be good enough to furnish- to the Commissioners a statement of the 
 particular circumstances which led to the discontinuance of the Linenhall-street School. 
 In the list of schools which \vere l)rought under the consideration of the C<iniinissioners 
 to-day, occurs the name of Stnrgan Sclio(d at Arnuigh, which was discontinued in 1850, in 
 consequence, it is stated, of its having dwindled into an infant school. — One of the rules 
 is, that children under six arc not to be admitted. 
 
 24234. That I know is one of the regulations of the English schools ; but how do you 
 determine that a school has become to such an extent an infant school, as no longer 
 to deserve the support of the Governors? — It is the practice to discontinue school.i
 
 EVIDENCE. 289 
 
 which become infant schools, and tli:it fact is asccrtaincil from tiie Inspector's Report. I Dlulin. 
 was not jppijiuted when the Sturijaii School was di.scoiitinucd. , , 
 
 21-2:i5. Then it is to he jjresuined that tlie Inspector in tiiis case reported that a very consid- "^ ScMKumlcd b!!' 
 erahlo nnnihor of the children attending were below six years of age V — I would suppose so. ICruxmus 'smith, EKq. 
 
 ■24'23(i. Tlie Governors do not think it expedient, as ajipears from this rule, to maintain Ww II. Hiimilton. 
 infant schools at all? — They have never done so. 
 
 '24"2.'57. Ilavo any schools been discontinued since you were appointed Inspector? 
 
 IJatiunore. 
 
 "24 238. Under wliat circumstances was it discontinued? — I inspected it twice, and I told Sir 
 .lames King it woukl he better for liim have an inlant schoolmistress appointed at £"20 a-year, 
 than a schoolmaster at £.30. 1 then made my I'cport, upon which it was discontinued. 
 
 24239. Was it not one of the schoolliouses towards the buildin<r of which the (Governors 
 had contributed? — It was one of tlioir oldest scliools. 
 
 24240. In that case, did they alienate the iiousc? — Tlicy re-assigned it to the grantor 
 under tlieir agreement. 
 
 24241. Th's, tlicn, was the case of a school being discontinued in consequence of havin"- 
 become an infant school? — And because the attendance had fallen off. 
 
 24242. Most of the schools have been discontinued in consequence of the falling oflf'in 
 attendance?— This list in my hand shows that. You will recollect tliat tlie Donadea 
 Scliool, al)oat which I was e.\amined on a former occasion, was never l)uilt by the Governors. 
 
 24243. That is the sciiocd of which a man named Legatt was master? — Yes; and it was 
 discontinued in my time. 
 
 24244. Arc you prepared to state, as Inspector of the Schools under the Governors of 
 Erasmus Smith, that, generally speaking, the falling off in attendance is an indication of 
 bad management of the school? — Sometimes it is, and sometimes it is not. Sometimes I 
 have made sucli a ri'port; but in a lunnber of cases it is attributable to causes over which 
 the master has no control. 
 
 24245. But, on the whole, v.-ould you not take it as prima facie evidence of bad manage- 
 ment? — I think not, because I have seen that the falling oii'm attendance is from other 
 causes ; and unless I could directly charge the master with mismanagement, I should be 
 sorry to make such a report. 
 
 24246. Supposing the Inspector were to report unfiivourably as to the management of a 
 school, stating that the attendance had fallen olf very mucli ; and supposing that it 
 appeared, under these circumstances, to he a question whether the school ought not to bo 
 discontinued, what time will the Governors take to decide that question ; it might appear, 
 that owing to temporary causes the school declined, but that if a little time were allov.ed 
 these causes might pass away, and the school recover? — The case has happened several 
 times, and the order has generally been to write to the clergyman to know whether there 
 was any prospect of the school going on, and the answer usually received was, wait a little 
 while ; upon which suggestion the Governors have, in nine cases out of ten, acted. 
 
 24247. Have you had cases before you, vrhcrc, after unfavourable reports had been 
 
 made, and attention called to the school, in the way you have stated, it has revived? 
 
 Yes ; at least we hope it will. 
 
 24248. Mr. Stephens — Arc you solo Inspector of the schools? — Y'es. 
 
 24249. You were present at the examination of Mr. Fetherston. and heard it stated that 
 £1,8 11 was received on behalf of certain lands which were sold to the Railway Companv. 
 Will you now turn to your books, and show me when the investment of that money first 
 ajjpeared in your accounts? — I never had any thing whatever to do with the accounts. 
 
 242.50. Are you not responsible for the accounts? — I am responsible for any money that isput 
 into my hands ; but I am not responsible to the Governors where money does not come into 
 ray hands. 
 
 24251. Who keeps the accounts? — Jlr. Tliorp. 
 
 24252. Then is Mr. Thorp the person from whom the Commissioners arc to ascertain 
 when the investment of £l,Sll first ap])eared in the books ? — I think he has an explanation 
 of tlic whole matter in his own handwriting this moment. 
 
 24253. Then will he give full information about this money? — lie may, but I know 
 nothing about it. Probably the case was this : that the stock was bought ; I had the docket 
 produced to the Board, handed it to the Chairman, and then entered it on the minute 
 hook ; but further than that, I have nothing to say to the stock account. 
 
 24254. AVhose duty is it to keep the accounts of the Governors, that is a fact which I 
 have not yet been able to ascertain? — I tell you the practice, and you can judge whether 
 it is right or wrong. I make the payments, Mr. Thorp makes the entries, and keeps the 
 books as between mc and the Trea.surer. At the end of the year we compare the accounts, 
 and present them to Mr. Barlcw, who audits and signs them. That is all I have to say to 
 the accounts; but I account for all the money which is intrusted to me. 
 
 Jolm Barloiv, Esq., examined. John Er.i law, Esq. 
 
 24255. I cannot allow the Registrar to say that he is not responsible to the Governors 
 for our accounts. 1 hold him responsible ; and he has given security to us. which shows 
 he is responsible. 1 am aware that what Mr. Hamilton says is true — that strictly speaking, 
 he does not take an active ])art in the accounts ; but I must state before Mr. Hamilton, 
 and in order to relieve the Governors from responsibility in the matter, that if any loss 
 takes place in our accounts, because he has placed them under the management of Mr. 
 Thorp, I, on the part of the Board, hold Mr. Hamilton accountable. I could not leave the 
 room after I heard what Mr. Hamilton has said, witliout putting the Commissioners in 
 possession of the facts, and setting Mr. Hamilton right as to his responsibility. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 P
 
 290 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dl-blin. 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schools founded Inj 
 
 Krasmus Smith, E^'j. 
 
 .Tolin Barlow, Esq. 
 
 24256. Mr. Stephens. — Who keeps the stock account, Mr. Barlow ? — Mr. Hamilton is * 
 responsible for all our accounts, but I am quite aware that Mr. Thorp keeps them ; and I 
 did not exactly understand Mr. Thorp when he .said that he did not do so, because I was 
 under the conviction, since I became chairman of the Board, that ilr. Thorp did keep the 
 accounts. Wliether this forms part of his duty or not I do not say, but he virtually docs 
 keep our accounts. As to the stock, about which so much has been said, there is an exact 
 account of the money in our books turned into stock, and brought forward in our books. 
 
 24257. Mr. Barlow, you misunderstand me. What I want to ascertain is tliis, at what 
 time does it appear from the accounts of the Governors that this £1,811 was first invested? — 
 The document wliich I now Jiand to the Secretaiy will show you that, and although the 
 money may have, for what I know, illegally come into the hands of the Governors, from the 
 Court of Chancery, tliey will, I am sure, make no further use of it than what is produced 
 by its investment in the funds. 
 
 24258. Nothing which has taken place before the Commissioners to-day tends, in any 
 respect, to impeach the honour or integrit)' of the Governors, or of the officers belonging 
 to them ? — I did not understand the Commissioners to impeach the integrity of any one, 
 but I am anxious to show where the money is. 
 
 24259. No one doubts where the money is; but what the Commissioners want to know 
 is, whether that money is ti'eated as cash ? — 1 would say, on the part of the Governors, 
 that they never treated it as cash. 
 
 242G0. But how did you get it out of tlie Court of Chancery? — Mr. Fetherston got it. 
 
 2426 1. He could only have taken it out of the Court of Chancery to deal with it as cash ? 
 — Perhaps that is so. 
 
 24262. Is it entered as cash? — It is entered in the first column as cash, and in the 
 second turned into stock. 
 
 24263. But it is not distinguished, or ear marked ? — It is in the document I have handed 
 to the Secretary. 
 
 24264. [ISecretarij. — I will read from the letter-book, handed to me by ilr. Barlow, tho 
 following letter, from Eustace Thorp to Godfrey Fetherston, dated Ctli November, 1654 .• — 
 
 " Re Stock Railway Money. 
 
 "Dear Sir, — Having reported to the last meeting that the dividends on stock purchased 
 with railway and other moneys are not regularly drawn and credited to the Governors, 
 they directed the particulars to be made out and forwarded to you, with a request that 
 you will ascertain whetlier the Secretary to the Bank of Ireland holds a general Power 
 of Attorney from the Governors — that you will have the dividends which have accrued 
 now drawn and lodged — and that you will so arrange that these dividends shall in future be 
 received at the proper times. 
 
 " I enclose a schedule of the particulars of the moneys referred to, having had reason for 
 supposing that the Governors did not receive their compensation from the Waterford and 
 Limerick Railway Company, for portions of Mr. Sadleir's and Captain Brad.shaw's holdings. 
 I have been making inquiries upon the sxibject for some time, and I enclose letters from the 
 secretary's office, dated 21st March, 1852 (to Mr. Kearney), stating that £261 had been 
 paid through Mr. O'Farrell ; and another, dated 1st March, 1854 (to myself), stating that 
 £261 was incorrect; but that £161 Qs. od. was the sum agreed upon, and promising to 
 have the matter inquired into. 
 
 " I have since written frequently to the secretary, reminding him of this promise, but 
 without any satisfactory result. 
 
 " The Governoi's, therefore, request that you will take the matter in hand. 
 
 " I remain, faithfully, &c., &c." 
 
 Cafh paid by 
 Coinp.iiiiCH 3Tid 
 Conitilissiunor^. 
 
 Stock purehnscdj 
 
 \vith said 
 
 caiih. 
 
 Great Routlicrn and 
 Western Kailway, 
 
 Poor Law Couimission- 
 ere, 
 
 MitUaiicl Railway, 
 
 WntcrfinlanJ Limerick 
 Kailway, 
 
 4r,8 17 6 
 153 12 r, 
 
 44 1 2 
 
 ],3I7 13 10 
 
 G12 10 (I 
 
 Observations. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 Sal 6 a 
 
 44 15 6 
 
 1,339 2 4 
 
 594 
 
 Stock repovtid as purcliafcd to this itmoiint liy Jlr. Fttlier-. 
 ston, in liis letter, dated 1411i April, IMS. I'ower of 
 Attorney, scaleil 2(jth May, I8.')l, autlioriziiij; Secretary to 
 Bank of Ireland to receive dividends, £.">2 Ks. 2rf., loil!,'cd 
 by Mr. Fellierston, L'nd .Tune, 1S5I, marked "Soutlierii 
 Knilway and I'oor Law Connnissioners" (beiny dividends on 
 tliis stoelv and tlie ne.Kt following). 
 
 Stock reported as purcliascil to this anionnt by Mr. Fellicr- 
 ston, in his letter, dated 1.9th December, 1 «;>(), dividends 
 thereon, once received, included in £62 8s. 'Id., above men- 
 tioned. 
 
 Slock reported as purchased to this amount by Jtr. Fether- 
 ston, in his letter, dated (.til Noveinlur, lH.'i"l. I'ower of 
 Attorney lodged with the Accountant-tjeneral of the Cu\iit 
 of Chancery, authorizing the Secretary to linnk of Ireland 
 to receive dividends. £'2\ l."j.v. ,^(/. rlividinds to October, 
 1851, drawn and lodged to Governors' credit. Mo dividends 
 since drawn. 
 
 Stock reported as pureli.nscd to tliis aniooiit by .Air. Fether- 
 Btoii, in Ids letter, dated 2.')rd Kovenibi-r, IH.;2, ami wliieli 
 has gone into the coiiimon stock of the Uovernor.s. The 
 diviiiends are regularly credited, 'i'liis, therefore, does not 
 require any furtiier attention fr jm llr. Fetherston.
 
 KVIDENCE. 291 
 
 242G5. Cliairman. — TIio question th.-it the Commissioners arc anxious to liavo answered Dublin. 
 
 is, at wliat date this sum of ±1,81 1, accruing from the sale of lands to tlie Great Southern xhe Governors of the 
 
 and Midland Great \^'cste^•n Railways, appears in the accounts of tlie Governors?— From the Sc/wok founded by 
 
 date of that letter. I <iuito admit it has gone into the. general stock of the Governors. Erasmus Smuk, Esq. 
 
 24266. [Secretari/. —The. cfToct ol' this letter, with the expl.uiations which have been given, •'^'■"•i" Barlow, Esq. 
 is this: — It appears tliat, in 184-t, tlie Governors were a])pri/,ed by Mr. Fetherston of 
 
 £4.50 liaving l)een lodged to tlicir credit; but it was not entered in any way in the accounts 
 of the Governors wjien they wore before the Commissioners on a previous occasion. It was 
 iirst regularly introduced on the 7th March, 1S55, by Mi*. O'Brien, when making up the 
 accounts under the directions of the Governors. It was in consequence of this letter from 
 Mr. 'J'horp that Mr. Fetherston applied, and actually got the money out of the Court of 
 Chancery, wlien it was re invested in ]\rarcli, 18.5.5. This is the first time it appears in the 
 accounts, althougli tlie Governors were a[)prized in 1818 of its having been lodge<l to their 
 credit in the Bank of Ireland. It has not been brouglit into any balance struck from 1848 
 to 1855. 
 
 24267. John Barlow, Esq. — There is a mistake there. The money was in the Court of 
 Chancery ; but we had no control over it in 1848. 
 
 24268. Secretary. — The stock was rei)orted as ]>urchased on the Governors' account by 
 Mr. Fetherston, in his letter dated 14th April, 1848. The Governors were as much entitled 
 to that stock, and tlie dividends arising on it in 1848, as they are at this moment. 
 
 24269. John Barlow, Esq. — It was not brouglit into our accounts. 
 
 24270. Secretary. — The moment tlie Governors became entitled to the dividends in 
 1848, it ought to have appeared in their accounts.] 
 
 24271. Chairman. — l\lr. Barlow, it strikes me — in which opinion the Commissioners 
 concur — that this sum ought to have appeared in the accounts in 1848, if you, as it 
 appears, were entitled to the dividends on it? — It appears from our solicitor's letter, 
 that the money was lodged in court in 1848. The lands were required by the Railway 
 Companies; but whether wc had a legal right of disposing of them or not I do not know. 
 They were required for a great public work, and it was not our business to throw impedi- 
 ments in the way. We never received a farthing of the dividends until 1854 or 1855. 
 
 24272. But you could have received the dividends on that sum in 1848? — I believe the 
 mistake was, that the Secretary of the Bank never went down to the court to receive the 
 dividends ; but we received them all at once. 
 
 24273. [Secretary. — It appears from an entry in the schedule ai)pcnded to ilr. Thorp's 
 letter, that a Power of Attorney was sealed 26tli.May, 1851, autliorizing the Secretary 
 of the Bank to receive the dividends, and £52 8s. was accoi'dingly lodged by Mr. Fether- 
 ston, on the 2nd .June, 1851, marked "Stock, Southern Railway and Poor Law Commis- 
 sioners;" and therefore, in 1851, although these dividends were lodged to the credit of 
 the Governors, the funds out of which they arose M'ere not entered in the accounts, nor 
 was there any trace of them there. They were entitled to these dividends from that time 
 until 1855, when they were introduced by Mr. O'Brien ; and if the stock had originally 
 been entered correctly, and the dividends charged, whether paid or not, as against the 
 funds, the Governors would at once have known to what dividends they were entitled. 
 
 24274. John Barlow, Esq.— -We have received every shilling of these dividends. 
 
 24275. Secretary. — The item of £1,339 2.s. 4(/ , the amount of stock purchased with the 
 Midland Railway money, is similarly circumstanced. The observations of Mr. Thorp on 
 this are — "• Stock reported as purchased to this amount by Mi*. Fetherston in his letter 
 dated 6th November, 1851. Power of attorney lodged with the Accountant-General of 
 the Court of Chancery, authorizing Secretary to Bank of Ireland to receive the dividends. 
 £21 \5s. 3d., dividends to October, 1851, drawn, and lodged to the Governors' credit, 
 but no dividends since drawn." That is, from October, 1851, to November, 1854, no 
 dividends were drawn; and if that £1,300 was entered in the accounts of the Governors, 
 as it ought to have been, when reported by Mr. Fetherston, in November, 1851, and when 
 their authority was given to the Secretary of the Bank of Ireland to draw the dividends, 
 these dividends would not have Iain over for three years. The last point is, ■whether 
 the Governors have in their accounts dealt with this sum of money as "money land," 
 or trust funds which cannot be alienated. It appears that they have three accounts of 
 Government Stock ; one a common account, running all through their books, and that 
 common account in the year of the famine ran down to £3, showing that it was an account 
 over which the Board exercised absolute control. They have since been diminishing their 
 expenditure, which, together with their improved circumstances, have now raised that com- 
 mon account to £600. They have, for a long time, a special Government Stock account, 
 for a fund which they hold on behalf of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and 
 Bequests. They also have an account of the stock invested to the credit of Lord Redesdale's 
 Charity. These latter were funds over which they had no disposal— they were only 
 trustees of them ; and, therefore, they have three separate stock accounts. Now, if they 
 had dealt with these railway moneys as they have dealt with Lord Redesdale"s Charity, or 
 with the fund which they hold on account of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations 
 and Bequests, they would have kept them, in like manner, in a perfectly distinct fund. 
 They have not done so, but have brought them into the general stock account, over which 
 they have a general power of disposal. No doubt the accounts now show from what source 
 the railway funds arose ; but they are, notwithstanding, treated in the accounts as funds 
 not yet ap])lied, but which may be disposed of. They are not ear-marked in the same way 
 as Lord Redesdale's Charit}', or the trust-fund which they hold on account of the Com- 
 missioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests. 
 
 Vol. II. *2 P 2
 
 292 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION'. 
 
 Dublin. 242 "G. John Barlow, Esq. — 1 quite admit part of what Dr. ILincock has stated, but I 
 
 ™ r, r,, do not admit that we received a farthiii"; of the dividends until 1851. 
 
 I lie Uorcninrs of the ^" -xrTii -iiiii i.it-ii/-, 
 
 Schools fo'inilid by 24277. Secretary. — Mr. liarJow misappreliends wliat i have stated. 1 said the Governors 
 
 Erasmus Smit/i, Esq. jj^d three Government stock accounts — one for the Commissioners of Charitahle Donations 
 
 John Barlow, Esq. ^nd Bequests, the other Lord Redesdaie's Charit)-, and a third which the Governors 
 
 obviously treated as at their disposal, for in the year of the famine it ran down so low as 
 
 £3. It is into that fund that they have put the raihvaj- mone\-,s in 1854, when received, 
 
 instead of putting tliem into a separate account. 
 
 24278. John Barlow, Esq — I acknowledge it would have been better to do so, and I 
 mistook what the Secretary said — I thought what lie conveyed to the Commissioners was, 
 that we had the railway money at our disposal in 1851.] 
 
 24279- Chairman. — We are quite aware it was in the Court of Chancery in 1850. 
 
 24280. \_Secretarii. — There is a question wliich arises on the accounts as now made out. 
 When this letter of 1854 came before the notice of iNIr. O'Brien, and when the stock account 
 came to be made out in 1855, it is perfectly plain that the railway moneys ought to have 
 been introduced into the accounts as far back as 1848, and the dividends entered as they 
 fell due ; whereas they are all entered as one sum, for 1855. The effect of that is to 
 make all the accounts of Stock — ranging from 1st May, 1848, to November, 1854, inclusive 
 — inaccurate ; the balances being wrong to tlie extent of the dividends.] 
 
 24251. Chairman. — Mr. Barlow, if the dividends on this railway money were not 
 received as soon as they iiiight have been, must not the balances be inaccurate for the 
 jjei'iod during which they were withheld ? — They must, so far, be inaccurate ; but the 
 jH-incipal money, and all the dividends, when tlicy were received, appear in our accounts. 
 As long as it remained in the Court of Chancery we had no control over it. 
 
 24252. [^Secretary — My Lord, Mr. Barlow is under a misappi-ehension as to the Governors 
 having no power over these funds while in the Court of Chancery, from 1848 to 1855; 
 because in 185 1 the Governors sealed a power of attorney autliorizing the Secrctaiy of the 
 Bank of Ireland to draw the dividends, which was clearly exercising power and authority 
 over them. They not only sealed the power of attorney, but got the dividends in 1851. 
 
 24283. John Barlor, Esq. — I am quite aware of what is stated ; but I would not like 
 to be positive on the subject until I had the accounts before me.] 
 
 242tJ4. 'My. Stephens. — ilr. Thorp ouglit to be able to afford information about these 
 accounts? — Taking JMr. Thorp"s letter as correct, it appears the dividends were received 
 in 1851, However, this question only relates to the dividends; for tliere is no doubt — 
 whether they were received in 1851 or 1854 — that the money has all been brought into 
 the accounts of the Governors, and not a shilling has been lost. At the same time I do not 
 mean to convey that the dividends should not have been entered in the accounts for the 
 year 1851, or 1848, when the land was sold; but the dividends have been regularly 
 received by the Secretary of the Bank, and entered in our accounts. 
 
 242S5. Chairman. — Do you also admit that these moneys ought to be placed to a sepa- 
 rate account ? — Certainly, and that no part of them should be touclied beyond the divi- 
 dends. I heard what Mr. Commissioner Stephens said witli respect to that, and I quite 
 agree with him. 
 
 24286. Mr. Stephens. — All these difficulties have arisen from not strictly adhering to the 
 governing charters and statutes ? — I must say, for myself, that I did not read these charters 
 or statutes, but that I adopted the same course as was adopted by my predecessors, one of 
 whom was Lord Downes, who was for twenty years chairman of the Board. Wc found a 
 certain course laid down by our predecessors, which we followed, believing it to be correct ; 
 but, from what 1 have heard, tliere have been, no doubt, irregularities of which I was 
 utterly ignorant. I am not quite sure, if I had read all these charters and different statutes, 
 I should be much the better of it. 
 
 242-^7. Chairman. — Mr. Barlow, the Commissioners wish me to say that they have gone 
 over the accounts of the Board very carefully, and they do not believe that there has been 
 the wilful misapplication of a single farthing of tlie funds intrusted to tlicir management. 
 — We always believed tliat when our accounts were presented to tlio Commissioners in a 
 ])roper form, it would be found that every shilling was brought forward, and disbursed to 
 the best of our judgment. I have only to add, tiiat I am not a professional man, and not 
 acquainted with these statutes and charters. 
 
 END OF THE EVIDENCE.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 293 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 No. I. Intkumkdiatk EoucATroN : 
 
 I'apors liiiil before the Comini'isioucL's by direction of His Excellency the 
 
 rage 
 
 Lord liieutonaut, lOlli December, 1854, '-iOS 
 
 ]!. GOVEUNORS OF THE SoHOOLS FOUNDED BY ERASMUS SmITH, EsQ. : 
 
 Copy of Letter from Registrar of the Governors of the Schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq., to Socretary of the Commissioners, Sird February, 
 1 855, enclosing an extract froui the Charter of the Governors of the Schools, 
 and a Copy of Opinion of Francis Fitzgerald, Esq., q.c, on case submitted 
 by tlie Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools as to Inquiries of ICndowed 
 Schools Commissioners, ........•• '■^^^ 
 
 III, Governors of the Schools founded ey Euasmus S.mith, Esq. : 
 
 Copy of Letter from the Commissioners to Sir George Grey, Bart., m.p.. Her 
 Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Home Department, lUth April, 
 1S55, 290 
 
 IV. KiLLALOE Diocesan School: 
 
 Memorial from the Lord Bishop and Clergy of the Diocese of Killaloe and 
 Kilfenora to the Commissioners, 33rd August, 1855, . . . .301 
 
 V. Ml'Llingau Diocesan School: 
 
 Letter from Rev. E. Tighe Gregory, Rector of Kilmorc, Diocese of Jlcath, 
 
 with Enclosures, ........... S'-^l 
 
 YI. Borough School of Swords : 
 
 Letter from the Most Rev. Archbishop Murray to J. Forster, Esq., . . 30-2 
 
 YII. Suggestions on Educvtion generally : 
 
 Ijctter from Lord Bishop of Down, Connor, and Droniore, to the Commis- 
 sioners, November, 1855, ......... 303 
 
 VIII. Suggestions as to difficulties of combining Comjiercial and Gramjiar School 
 Education : 
 
 Letter from Rev. W. H. Guillemard, Head Master of Armagh Royal School, 
 SlstDecf ber, 1855, 304 
 
 IX. Erasmus Smith's Grammar School, Galway : 
 
 Return as to Pupils, 1849-1855, 300 
 
 X. Erasmus S.mith's English School, JIukf, Co. of Londonderry: 
 
 Minutes of the Evidence taken before William Dwyer Ferguson, Es(}., 
 Assistant Commissioner, at I'nblic Inquiry held by him on the 3 1st October, 
 1856, into the Complaint of Rev. Mr. Berkeley, partly inquired into by the 
 Commissioners at their Pul)lic Con;'t at Londonderry, . . . .307 
 
 XL Maoherafelt School, Endowed by Hugh Rainey, Esq. : 
 
 Notes of Evidence taken liy William Dwyer Ferguson, Esq., Assistant Com- 
 missioner, at Public Inquiry held by him on the •^4th September. 1850, 
 into the Complaint of i\Irs. Gaussen, partly inquired into by the Connnis- 
 sioners at their Public Court in Londonderry; with Extracts from his 
 Report, stating result of Inquiry, . . . , . . . .315 
 
 XII. Governors of Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. : 
 
 Copies of Leases referred to in the Evidence of G. Fetlierston, Esq., 
 
 November, 1856, . . . . . . . . . .317 
 
 1. Copy of the Lease of Druuiachose School, 'JOth February, 1814. Lease 
 
 to Governors, wiili clause requiring instruction in Church Catechism, 317 
 
 2. Copy of the Lease of Lislee School, 21st September, 18-24, made under 
 
 Lord Lieutenant's School Fund Commissioners, . . . .318 
 
 .3. Copy of Lease of Rathclaren School, February 9.0, 18'25, made under 
 
 the Association for Discountenancing Vice, ..... 3'20 
 
 4. Copy of Lease of Gorey School, 2Sth September, 1840. Lease to 
 
 Governors, requiring instruction in Holy Scriptures, . . . . 3'21 
 
 XIII. Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. : 
 
 Copy of Letter from Registrar of the Governors of the Schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq., to Secretary of the Commissioners, 9th December, 
 1856; with minute of the Commissioners thereon, 17th December, 1856, . 323 
 
 :2P3
 
 294 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Page 
 No. XIV. Hibernian JIaeine School, City of Dublin. — St.vte of the Accodnt.s : 
 
 Copy Letter from the Seeretai-y of the- Commissioners, enclosing Report of 
 Richard S. Hickson, Esq., Government Accountant, with Copy of Reply of 
 Honorary Secretaries of Hibernian Marine Society 323 
 
 XV. M.iDAM Mercer's School, Castleksock, Countx Dl'blin. — St.ate of the 
 Accoukts : 
 Copy of Letter of Secretary of the Commission enclosing Report of Richard 
 S. Hickson, Esq., Government Accountant, with Copy of Reiily of Vener- 
 able Archdeacon of Dublin 326 
 
 „ XVI. Blue Coat Hospital, Dublin. — Coerespondence respecting the Audit of 
 Accounts by the Audit Board in London : 
 
 1 . Copy of Letter from Secretary of the Commission to Secretaiy of the 
 
 Audit Office, ..." 329 
 
 2. Copy of Letter from Secretary of Audit Office, London, to Secretary of 
 
 the Commission, September 1st, 1856, ...... 329 
 
 3. Copy of Letter of Secretary of the Commission to Secretary of the 
 
 Treasury, October ITth, 1856, 329 
 
 4. Copy of Letter from the Secretaiy of the Treasury to Commissioners, 
 
 November 5th, 1856, " . . . .330 
 
 5. Copy of Report of Audit Commissioners to Secretary of the Treasury, 
 
 27th February, 1846 330 
 
 ,, XVII. Suggestions on Education : 
 
 Copy of Letter from Rev. R. V. Dixon, Rector of Clogherny, formerly Fellow, 
 and Erasmus Smith Professor of Natural and Experimental Philosophy in 
 Trinity College, Dublin, 333 
 
 ,, XVIII. Extracts from Patent Rolls op the Court of Chancery, Ireland, relating 
 to the Royal Schools : 
 
 1. Letter from King James I., directing Letters Patent to be passed for 
 
 the Endowment of Free Schools in Ulster, and the Maintenance of 
 Masters, 387 
 
 2. Letter from King James I., directing Grants to Archbishop of Armagh 
 
 of Escheated Lands, to be distributed by him for Schools and Glebes, 338 
 
 3. Letters Patent from King James I., founding Free School at Dungannon 
 
 for County Tyrone, and appointing a Schoolmaster, .... 338 
 
 4. Letter from King James I., directing Letters Patent to be passed, con- 
 
 veying Lands allotted to Free Schools to Archbishop of Armagh, for 
 distribution 339 
 
 ,, XIX. Report of Commissioners of Education Inquiry, 1791, obtained August, 1856: 
 
 Copy of Report of Commissioners appointed by His Excellency the Lord 
 Lieutenant of L'eland, in 1788, imder the provisions of an Act, 28th Geo. IL, 
 c. 15 (Irish), entitled an "Act to enable the Lord Lieutenant or other 
 Chief Governor or Governors of this kingdom, to appoint Commissioners 
 for inquiring into the several funds and revenues granted by publick or 
 private donations for the purpose of education in this kingdom, and into 
 the state and condition of all schools in tliis kingdom on public or charit- 
 able foundations, and of the funds npjiropriated for the maintenance and 
 support thereof, and for the other purposes herein mentioned," . .341 
 
 ,, XX. Mixed Education : 
 
 Papers relied on by iMr. Hughes in the discussion on the Draft Report, 23rd 
 of December, 1856, and presented on the 30th January, 1857, to the Com- 
 missioners engaged in i)reparing the Draft Report, with a request that they 
 should be published amongst the Documents of the Commission, . . 380 
 
 The Synodical .\dih-ess of the Council of Thurlcs, September, 1860, . . 880 
 Translation of the First Rescript on the Queen's Colleges, directed to each of 
 
 the Four Roman Catholic Archbishops, 9tli October, 1847, . . . 388 
 
 Translation of the Second Rescript on the Queen's Colleges, directed to 
 each of the Four Roman Catholic Archbishops of Ireland, 1 1 th October, 
 1848 388 
 
 Translation of Rescript on the Queen's Colleges, addressed to each of the 
 
 Four Roman Catholic Archbishops of Ireland, 18th April, 1850, . . 889 
 
 „ XXL' Schools founded nv Erasmus Smith, I^sq. : 
 
 1. Laws and Directions given by Erasmus Smith, Esq., for the government 
 
 of the Schools. [Received 8ih May, 1857,] 390 
 
 2. Order of the Governors, ]2tli July, 1712. [Received 8Ui May, 1857,] . 891
 
 DOCUMENTS. 295 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 No. I. Intermediate Education. Imcnaediaie 
 
 Education. 
 
 Papers laid before the Commissioners by direction of His Excellency the Lord „ T~--^ , 
 
 •' •' Papers submitted 
 
 Lieutenant — IGth December, 1854. • by onlcr of Lord 
 
 [L] — Heads of topics, in regard to Intermediate Education, to be respectfully submitted to 
 His Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, by a Deputation to which an audience has been 
 granted on the 22nd inst. — [April, 1854.] 
 
 The deputation conisistcd of — Sir Robert Kane, President, Queen's College, Cork ; Rev. 
 P. S- Henry, President, Queen's College, Belfast; Mr. Berwick, President, Queen's Col- 
 lege, Galway ; The Very Rev. the Dean of Dromore ; Rev. J. Scott Porter, Presbyterian 
 Minister, Belfast; Rev. John Dodd, Presbyterian Mini.stcr, Newry ; Rev. Dr. James 
 M'Cosh, Professor, Queen's College, Belfast ; P. W. M'Blain, Esq., Barrister ; Robert 
 M'Blain, Esq., jMcrchant, Newry ; James Kennedy, Esq., Vice-President, Cliamber of 
 Commerce, Belfast; Tliomas A. Kidd, Esq., J.P., Merchant, Newry; James Kidd, Esq., 
 Merchant, Sligo ; James M'George, Esq., Merchant, Newry ; Joshua Magec, Esq., Solicitor, 
 Newrj^; William Kirk, Esq., m.p. for Newry. 
 
 First, as to the Necessity — 
 
 (1.) The National Schools at present furnish no classical education, and very little ele- 
 mentary science. 
 
 The National Schools have had the effect, incidentally, of diminishing the number of 
 classical schools ; inasmuch, as in many places, where there used to be a teacher earning 
 a sustenance by combining instruction in Latin with the elementary branches, there is now 
 a National schoolmaster teaching the latter only. There are \cnown to be five or six such 
 places in a sini^le county (Down), and it is believed that there arc many .such in every part 
 of Ireland. Upper tradesmen, shopkeepers, and farmers experience a greater difficulty in 
 giving their children a superior education than the same class did twenty or thirty years ago. 
 (2.) It is believed that Ireland has fewer means of enabling the middle and lower classes 
 to acquire the higher branches of knowledge than almost any other country similarly cir- 
 cumstanced — certainly much fewer in proportion to its population than Germany, than 
 Scotland, or the United States of America. In Prussia there is eitlier a gymnasium or a 
 scientific (real) school, in which the higher departments of knowledge are taught, in every 
 important town, and in not a few villages. In the gymnasia there are taught Greek, Latin, 
 French, Hebrew, Mathematics, tlie elements of Physics, Chemistry, and Logic, together 
 with Composition in the vernacular tongue. In Scotland, every borough has an academy, 
 at which Classics and Mathematics are taught. In the single State of New York, in. 
 America, there were, in 1J'<49, no fewer than 160 academies, in 155 of which Latin was 
 taught; in 134, French; iu 149, Geometry; in 141, Chemistry; in 151, Physics; and in 
 108, Botany.':^ 
 
 Turning to Ireland, we find that a few years ago, out of ninety-eight towns containing a 
 population exceeding 3,000 each, there were only eighteen with endowed academies. 
 
 No doubt, there are also a number of unendowed schools, but these ai-e, after all, com- 
 paratively few ; the fees charged iu some cases place them far above the means possessed 
 by the middle classes, and in all other cases the teachers are inadequately supported ; not 
 unfrequently they are incompetent for their woi'k, aud the establishments are commonly 
 of the most fluctuating character. 
 
 (3.) The Queen's Colleges have not adeqiiate feeders, and have not, in consequence, 
 nearly so many students as they ought to have, or as similar institutions have in other 
 lands. There is no other country in the world with so many colleges as Ireland and so 
 few preparatoi-y schools. 
 
 (4.) Those interested in the commercial prosperity of this country have seen with pain, 
 that there is not the means of giving higher artizans and mechanics such an education in 
 science and practical art as may be had in other lands. 
 
 Other countries are, in consequence, outstripping us in various dejiartments of manu- 
 factures requiring scientific knowledge and artistic skill. 
 
 Our merchants and manufacturers experience a great difficidty in getting operatives, 
 fitted to perform the higher departments of their work. 
 
 Not a; few of the finer works of mechanical aud chemical art in our country are, at this 
 moment, performed by foreigners, who have received a higher education than can be had 
 by the same class of persons in tliis country. 
 
 The Schools of Design set up in this country are not fitted of themselves to meet the 
 evU, as, in consequence of a want of training in elementary science, comparatively few are 
 prepared to receive tlie full benefit to be derived from these admirable institutions. The 
 Schools of Design, like the Queen's Colleges, need feeders of a higher character than the 
 National Schools. 
 
 * See " Silgcstrom oji Educational lustitutions uf United States," p. 322. 
 
 Lieutenant.
 
 296 
 
 ENDOVrED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Intermediate 
 Editcatiuu. 
 
 I'npcrs submitted 
 l)y order of LorJ 
 Lieutenant. 
 
 (5.) Tlieso considerations have an additional force imparted to them by the circumstance 
 that a high education is now required in almost every department of the public service, 
 civil, nautical, and military, as well as ecclesiastical. Nor should it be forgotten, that the 
 sacred trust of the franchise imperatively requires tliat tliosc who possess it sliould have 
 a suitable ciiucation. 
 
 (6.) It is almost unnecessary to urge, as it is ncv universally acknowledged, that a high 
 stylo of education has a tendency to lessen crime in a country, and, witli crime, taxation. 
 Out of 335,429 persons committed for crime in England and Wales, in the thirteen years 
 terminating in 184S. only 1,333 had enjoyed the advantages of instruction beyond the 
 elementary degree.* Statesmen will find a cheaper, as well as in every respect a wiser 
 policy, to restrain crime by education than by punishment. 
 
 Secondly, as to the Hemedy — 
 
 The Deputation, in entering npon this subject, beg that it may be distinctly understood, 
 that it has no wish to interfere with the lioyal or Dioce-san Schools, and has no proposal 
 to make in regard to them. 
 
 The Deputation, being themselves deeply impressed with the want that exists, are most 
 anxious to press it upon the attention of the Lord Lieutenant. As to tlie best means of 
 supplying the want, they are aware th:it tlie subject demands much and careful deliberation. 
 Several suggestions have been made, which seem worthy of consideration. 
 
 I. The Lord Lieutenant might suggest to the Board of Education the propriety of 
 grafting the teaching of classics and tlcmentaiy science upon the National system, and 
 invite the Board to devise a scheme, by which an augmentation of salary miglit be allowed 
 to National teachers who are able to ;rive instruction in the hin'her branches ; this augmen- 
 tation increasing according to the extent of their scholarship, ascertained by examination ; 
 it being enacted that these teachers, inider Government ins])ection, give instruction in the 
 branches for which they receive an increase of salary, to all persons applying for it, at a 
 moderate fee, and at iixed hours, not being regular school hours. 
 
 By some such plan as this, the means of ])rocuring a certain amount of classical know- 
 ledge could be secured to our more populous rural districts and smaller towns ; as it 
 would be found, in fact, that the teachers bavin;- a right to this augmentation would 
 iisuallj" be called to such places. 
 
 Some are of opinion that the National School system needs some such means of elevating 
 the status and attainments of the teachers. 
 
 II. In all towns with a population exceeding f thousands, there slionld be a means 
 of enabling the inhabitants to set up a higher academy, with at least one master devoting 
 his time exclusively to the teaching of languages and elementary science — and, wherever it 
 is practicable, two masters, one for languages and literature, and the other for science — 
 it being understood, in every case, that local parties provide a certain proportion of the 
 sum necessary to ei-ect the building, and also part of the teacher's salary. 
 
 It has occurred to some, that the control and examination, through InsjKictors, of these 
 higher institutions, should be committed to the Senate of the Queen's University. 
 
 L'rocecding on these two methods simultaneously, it would be found, in the course of 
 time, that tlic whole country might be supplied with the means of a higher education, 
 while the v;ork would proceed so gradually as not to require a large sum at the com- 
 mencement ; for the Government wou'd be required to advance money only as the National 
 teachers were able to com])etc for the augmented salaries, and as towns were ready to 
 raise the necessary local contributions. It is believed that a very small sum, judiciously 
 e.vpended, would meet all tlic demands made for a number of years from this date. 
 
 [II.] — [Toj)ics which seem to have been brought under his Excellency's notice at the 
 audience, and then left as a memorandum by the Deputation.] 
 
 The want of intermediate education in Ireland might be met by the two i'ollowing schemes 
 in combination : — 
 
 First — By grafting, to a limited extent, the teaching of languages and elementary 
 science upon the national system. 
 
 I. In a negative way. 
 
 Let every National teacher be at liberty to impart instruction in such higher branches 
 as he may bo able to teach, at fixed hours, not being regular school hours. 
 
 II. In a positive way. 
 
 Let any teacher of tlio first (or second ■') class be at liberty to compete for a higher 
 salary, to be awarded to those who are able to stand an examination in languages and 
 elementary science. 
 
 As a condition of receiving this salary, the teaclier shall be required, under inspection, to 
 give instruction in the branches for which they receive the increase of salary, to all puj)ils 
 applying for it at a moderate fee, and at fixed hours, not being regular school hours — say 
 from nine to ten a..m., and three to four p.m. 
 
 The exauiinatiuu might contemplate three stages of advancement, as in the system 
 devised by the " Committee of Council on I'.ducation" for Great Brit;iiu. 
 
 (a). Those who could stand an examination in, and who vi'ero found comi)etcnt to teach 
 the barest elements of classics and science, might receive an additional salary of £15. 
 * See " rortcr on the I'rogTCSS of tlio Na ion," p. (;50. t Tlii.s Manli in (lie original copj.
 
 Lifutcnant. 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 297 
 
 {b). Those wlio could bring a pupil a greater length, say within six months of college. Intermediate 
 might receive £25. _ _ l£ducatwn. 
 
 {c). 'J'iio.sc who could ])re]iarc a lioy for tlie colleges might receive £30 or £40. Tapers fiuhmittod 
 
 IS".]j. — (I) Tlioso who liavo passed tlic Government examination, and wlio arc entitled V order of Lord 
 to the additional salary, would, in fact, he chosen to the more ])opulou8 and important 
 localities. In tliis way the smaller towns and larger villages would liavc the higher 
 branches tauglit in tiicm to a limited extent. 
 
 (2). The National system needs some sucli stimulus to draw into it a set of better educated 
 instructors, and encourage tlie younger teachers to jicrsevere in ac(|uiring knowledge. 
 
 Sccondlij — Steps sliould he taken for setting up liigher academies in towns with a 
 popuhition exceeding * tliousands. 
 
 Some admirable suggestions on tliis subject arc contained in a lleport from a Select 
 Committee on Foundation Schools and Education in Ireland, ordered to be printed by 
 House of Commons in 1838 — (sec from p. 04 to p. 73). In this report there is a detailed 
 plan for raising tlie mon(\y and regulating the schools. 
 
 In the event of the Government not being prepared to carry out so extensive a scheme 
 immediately, the following might 1)0 adopted provisionally and as an experiment. 
 
 Her IMnjcsty's Government might aid in the erection, and in providing salaries for 
 teachers, of higlier academics in towns with a population above 4,000, on some such prin- 
 ciples as the following : — 
 
 1. Local ])arties shall be rerpn'red to suliscribc one-half the sum necessary to erect the 
 building, and jn'ovide one-half the salary of the teacher or teachers, the other half being 
 supplemented l)y Government. 
 
 2. There shall be at least one teacher in every such academy, who shall devote his time 
 exclusively to the teaching of languages, ancient and modern, and mathematics and natural 
 science ; and when the necessary funds can be provided there shall be two teachers, one 
 for languages and the other for science, including mathematics and elementary logic, and 
 natural science. It may also be competent for local parties, on the same conditions, in 
 addition to the teacher or teachers of languages and science, to have a highly qualified 
 teacher of English and the commercial branches. 
 
 3. The teachers shall be examined, as to their scholarship, by an examiner appointed by 
 the Senate of the Queen's University, and shall submit to have their classes regularly 
 examined by Inspectors appointed by the said University. And the Senate shall have 
 power at any time to withdraw the salary from the teachers on the ground of proven incom- 
 petency, carelessness, innnorality, or interference with the religious convictions of the pupils. 
 
 4. The ordinary management of the school shall be vested in a committee of local 
 parties subscribing to the annual salary of the teacher. The same committee might have 
 power, when a vacancy occm-s, to recommend a teacher to the University, it being 
 understood that the election lies with the University. 
 
 5. Tlie same measures and' precautions shall be taken in regard to religious instruction 
 as in the Queen's Colleges. 
 
 N.B. — By this plan, a number of academics might be estaljlishcd at little expense to tlie 
 Government, and with no new machinery. The Senate has already apartments and a 
 Secretary, and might easily find Inspectors in Trinity College and the Queen's Colleges to 
 do the whole work in the vacations. 
 
 Query— AVould not the Board of Trade be willing to allow a salary to the scientific 
 teacher ? 
 
 niissioners. 
 
 No. II. GOVERXORS OF THE SciIOOLS FOUNDED BY ErASMUS SmITII, EsQ. The Governors of the 
 
 Schools fijunded wf 
 ^ n T f t-i />ir-i o T - /, Erasmus Smith, Esq, 
 
 Copr 01 a Letter from Iiegistr.vr oi the Governors of the Schools founded by Eras.mus 
 
 Smith, Esq., to Secretary of the Commissioners. of Governors''to'^" 
 
 Board-room of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus ITTZL"^ '^°'^' 
 Smith, Esq., II, Kildare-street, 3rd Feb., 1855. 
 Sir, — Your letter of the 3rd ultimo, enclosing Queries, &c., was duly laid before the 
 Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., and carefully considered by 
 them. 
 
 I am directed to state, in reply, that the Governors, being fully convinced that the trusts 
 reposed in them by the late Erasmus Smith could not be submitted to any authority or 
 inquiry whatever, without involving a direct breach of duty on their part, most respect- 
 fully decline to submit to any extraneous jurisdiction, or to allow their Schoolmasters or 
 officers to be subjected to any such visitation. 
 
 I am also directed to send herewith a copy of the opinion of eminent Counsel, together 
 ■with a clause in tlie Charter of the Governors. 
 
 In taking the present course, the Governors desire me to express their anxious hope 
 that the Commissioners will attribute this determination solely to a strong sense of the 
 obligations imposed on them by the Founder of the Charity. 
 
 1 am, Sir, your obedient Servant, 
 
 (Signed,) Hugh IIajiilto.v, Eegistrar. 
 
 W. Neilson Hancock. Esq., Secretary, 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission. 
 
 * This Uank in the original copy. 
 Vol. II. 2 Q
 
 298 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 The Governors of the 
 
 Schook founded bij 
 Erasmus Smith, £>■(/. 
 
 Letter of Registrar 
 of Governors to 
 Secretary of Com- 
 missioners. 
 
 [enclosures.] 
 
 1. — Copy of Clause in the Charter of the Governors of the Schools founded by 
 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 " And we of our further especial grace, certain knowledge, and mere motion, and by our 
 supreme power and authority, for us, our heirs and successors, do will, ordain, and grant, 
 that the said Schools, and the Schoolmasters, Ushers, and Scholars, Members, Officers, 
 and all others the officers and persons to be placed in the said Schools, shall, for ever 
 hereafter, be exempted and freed of and from all visitations, punishment, and correction, 
 to be had, used, or exercised in or upon them, or any of them, by the Ordinary of the 
 Diocese for the time being, or by any other person or persons wliatsoever, other than by 
 the said Erasmus Sraitli. during his life, and after his death, or during his sickness or ab- 
 sence from Ireland, by the said Governors for the time being, or their successors, or any 
 three of them, to be elected by the said Corporation, or any seven or more of them as 
 aforesaid, whereof the Treasurer for the time being to be always one — if such Treasurer 
 be able to attend." 
 
 2. — Copy of Opinion of Fk.\ncis Fitzgerald, Esq., q.c, on case submitted by the 
 Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools, as to Inquiries of Endowed Schools Com- 
 mission. 
 
 The Comnission, a Copy of which has been herewith sent, purports to give a visitato- 
 rial power to the Commissioners therein named, in respect of all Schools endowed for the 
 purpose of Education in Ireland. 
 
 I am of opinion that that Commission can give no right to exercise such visitatorial 
 power in respect of any Endowed Schools of which the Crown is not, but some other per- 
 son or persons is or are, the Visitor or Visitors. When the Crown is not the Visitor, it 
 cannot, in my opinion, without some Act of the Legislature enabhng it so to do, give to 
 any Commissioner or Commissioners a right to exercise visitatorial powers, or any portion 
 of such power on an eleemosynary corjjoration. 
 
 By the terms of this Cliartei-, the Governors are constituted the Visitora of the 
 Endowed Schools on the foundation of Erasmus Smith, and if there be any Act of the 
 Legislature enabling the Crown, by such a Commission as the present, to interfere with 
 their right as Visitors, I can only say, that, after the best search which I have been able 
 to make, it has escaped me. 
 
 Commissioners under the Irish Act, 28 Geo. III., chap. 15, perpetuated by 4G Geo. III., 
 chap. 122 — if these Acts be still in force — would appear to have full jurisdiction to exer- 
 cise such powers as the jjresent Commission purports to give in respect of Erasmus Smith's 
 Schools ; but these xVcts, if in force, give no colom* to the present Commission as regards 
 the Schools in question, and Erasmus Smith's Schools are exempted from the jurisdiction 
 given to the Commissioners of Education under 50th Geo. 111., chap. 33. 
 
 I am of opinion, therefore, that the Commission in question gives to the Commissioners 
 therein named no power by any compulsory means, and no right to inquire into the endow- 
 ment, funds, or condition of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, to exercise any juris- 
 diction in respect of them ; nor do I think that the Governors or the Officers can be 
 comi)elled to submit to examination in respect of the matters referred to in the foregoing 
 question, or to make the returns, or produce the documents referred to. 
 
 Assuming that I am right in this view of the case, and that any attemjit is made on the 
 part of the Commissioners to institute inquiries in resjicct of Erasmus Smith's Schools, to 
 whicli the Governors do not think it pro])cr to submit, it seems to mo that the proper 
 course for the Governors to adopt is to furnish, through the proper Officer to the Com- 
 missioners, a statement that they decline to submit to such inquiries as an infringement 
 on the visitatorial powers over the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith vested in them by 
 these Charters. If ulterior measures should be rendered necessary by any further attempt 
 of the Commissioners, tlie proper legal course to be pursued by the Governors would, I 
 apprehend, be an application to the Court of Queen's Bench for a prohibition — King v. 
 Dr. Shipden, 8 Mod. 367, Com. dig. Visitor (B), and Prohibition A 1. 
 
 That the Crown has no visitatorial power, and can give none by its Commission, over 
 eleemosynary corporations of private foundation, is a proposition for which I apprehend it 
 is unnecessary to refer to authorities. The law will be found stated in 1 Black. Com. 
 481-2, and the case of Sutton's Hospital, 10 Co. 2> to 31, as explained and distinguished 
 in tlie case of Bermingham School, Gill Eq. case 178-181, and wliicli is also reported under 
 the name of Eden v. Foster, 2 P. W. 325, appear to be sufficient authorities on the subject 
 where Special Visitors exist. 
 
 I may ol)servc, that from the Cliarter of Sutton's Hospital, as set out in 10 Cc- 
 8 a-16 a, it would appear tliat tlie clause making the Governors of that Hospital Visitors, 
 12 a 1 '0, is almost in terms identical with the clauses of the Letters ratent, making the 
 Governors of Erasmus Smitli's Scliools the Visitors of these Schools. That there is 
 througliout a substantial agreement between the two Charters. 
 
 I do not apprehend that tlie circumstance tliat the Commission in the present case was 
 issued on the Petition of tlie House of Commons can give to the Commissioners any autho- 
 rity that they otherwise would not have, and tliis would seem pretty i>lain, if tliero could 
 be any doubt on it, from (5 Geo. IV., chap. 10. 
 
 (Signed), Francis A. FrrzfjRRALD, 
 
 8, Hatch-street, 5th January, 1855.
 
 DOCUMEISTS. 299 
 
 III. GOVERNOUS OF THE SCHOOLS FOUNDED BY ErASMUS SmiTH, EsQ. 7y,e Orwi:rnors of lite 
 
 Copy of Letter from the C(iMMissioNEr(S to Sir George Grey, liart., m.p., lier Majesty s Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 Principal Secretary of State for tlio Iloine Department. Letter fromCommis- 
 
 Dublin Castle, I6th April, 1855. gi^Qg'^^^''''''''^' 
 
 Sir,— \Ve beg leave, for the information of Tor Majesty's Government, to lay before you ' " '^°^^'^ ^^^' 
 the following statement : — 
 
 The Commission (Appendix A) under which we have been appointed, after reciting that 
 an Address had been presented to Iler Majesty from the Commons House of Parliament, 
 humbly praying that Iler Majesty would be graciously pleased to issue a Commission to 
 inquire " into the Endowments, Funds, and Actual Condition of all Schools endowed for 
 " the purposes of Education in Ireland, and the nature and extent of the instruction given 
 " in sucli scliools, and to report the opinion of the Commissioners tliereon," purports to 
 authorize such inquiry, and to grant to us "full power and authority to call before us such 
 "persons as we shall judge necessary;" and "to cause all persons to bring and produce 
 " upon oath before us all and singular records, books, papers, and other writings touching 
 " [schools endowed for tlie purposes of I'.ducation in Ireland] which shall be in tlie custody 
 " of them or any of them." 
 
 Pursuant to our directions, our Secretary, on the 3rd of January, forwarded a letter 
 (Appendix B) to the Secretaries and Pegistrars of the different Boards having the manage- 
 ment and control of Endowed Schools in Ireland, enclosing a copy of the Commission and 
 blank forms (Appendix C), to enable them conveniently to supi)ly information respecting 
 the Endowments, Funds, and Actual Condition of their respective schools; and, amongst 
 others, to the Bev. Hugh Hamilton, Registrar of the Governors of the Schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smitli, Esq. 
 
 On the 3rd of February, the Registrar, acting under the directions of the Governors, 
 addressed a letter (Appendix D) to our Secretary, stating that " the Governors, being 
 " fully convinced that the trust reposed in them by the late Erasmus Smith could not be 
 " submitted to any authority or inquiry whatever, without involving a direct breach of duty 
 " on their part, most respectfully decline to submit to any extraneous jurisdiction, or to 
 " allow their Schoolmasters or Officers to be subjected to any suf1i visitation." 
 
 The Registrar at the same time enclosed a copy of the opinion uf Counsel (Appendix E) 
 that " the Commission can give no right to exercise such visitatorial power in respect of any 
 " endowed schools of which the Crown is not, but some other person or persons is or are, 
 " the Visitor or Visitors. When the Crown is not the Visitor it cannot," . . . "without 
 "some Act of the Legislature enabling it so to do, give i) any Commissioner or Commis- 
 "sioners a right to exercise visitatorial powers, or any portion of such power, on an 
 " eleemosynary corporation." ..." The Commission in question gives to the Com- 
 " missioners therein named no power by any compulsory means, and no right to inquire 
 " into the endowment, funds, or condition of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, or 
 " to exercise any jurisdiction in respect of them." 
 
 To letters of inquiry, enclosing similar blank forms (Appendix B and Appendix C) 
 addressed to the Masters of Erasmus Smith's Schools, at Ennis, Galway, and Innishannon, 
 the Masters replied to the effect that the Governors had directed them not to submit to 
 any examination, or make any returns relative to their schools. (Appendices F, G, and H). 
 
 The Governors having thus declined to give, and having forbidden their Masters to 
 supply the required information, we are of opinion that we cannot compel the attendance 
 of any of the Governors, their officers, schoolmastei'S, or other persons; or the production 
 of the records, books, papers, and other writings touching their schools ; and therefore that 
 we cannot inquire into the i'^ndowments, Funds, and Actual Condition of the Schools 
 endowed by Erasmus Smith for the purposes of Education in Ireland, or into the uature 
 and extent of the instruction given in such schools. 
 
 In confirmation of our opinion, we may be permitted to observe, that by Statute 28 
 Geo. III. chap. 15, Ir. (renewed by Statute 30 Geo. III. chap. '.'A, Ir.; 31 Geo. IIL, chap. 
 A 1, Ir. ; and revived by4l) Geo. III., chap. 122), authority was given to certain Commissioners 
 " to examine and inquire into the several funds and revenues granted by public or private 
 " donations, for the purposes of Education in this kingdom, and into the state, condition 
 " and management of all Parish, Diocesan, and Charter Schools within this kingdom ; and 
 " also into the state, condition and management of all Schools on the foundation of Erasmus 
 " Smith ; and also of all other Schools with'n this kingdom, on any public or charitable 
 " foundation." 
 
 Under these Statutes the Commissioners made a Report in 1809 ; but it must be obvious 
 that their Report cannot furnish information respecting the " Endowments, Funds, and 
 Condition" of such schools at the present time. 
 
 For the purpose of ascertaining how far other public documents within our power could 
 enable us to prosecute any portion of the inquiries specified in the Commission, we have 
 referred to " An Abstract of Return to an Order of the Honourable the House of Commons," 
 dated 7th April, 1854 (App. I), from which we have collected that the gross rental of the 
 estates of the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools, for the year ending the 1st of May, 1853, 
 amounted to the sum of £8,50 1 4s. lOld., out of which the sum of T ,762 18s. 9d. was received, 
 and that the total expenditure during the same year amounted to the sum of £4,699 13s. 4d. 
 
 We have not been able to ascertain from the above mentioned Abstract, or from any 
 other authentic source, the number of Erasmus Smith's Schools, the number of the pupils 
 educated in them, or the nature and extent of the instruction given therein. 
 
 VcL. 11. 2 Q 2
 
 300 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COIDIISSION. 
 
 77ie Governors of the A large jx)rtion of the endowments availalilc for education in Ireland, and a numerous 
 Schools founded bt/ q]^^^ of scliools, bein^ tluis withdrawn from our inquiries by tlio refusal of the Governors 
 
 '"'"""' '^ '' of Erasmus Smith's Schools to submit to tlie authority of the Commission, we apprehend 
 
 Letter from Comrais- that, unless additional powers be conferred upon us, serious obstructions are likely to arise 
 Eioners to Secretary, jj^ ^jj^ execution of Her Majesty's commands; and wc feel that it will be imijossible for us 
 
 ir (jcor''"C Lirtv- ...' . 
 
 ° efficiently to inquire into and report our opinions to Her Majesty upon the Endowments, 
 
 Funds, and Actual Condition of all schools endowed for the purpose of education in Ireland, 
 and the nature and extent of the instruction given in such schools. 
 
 We have the honour to be. Sir, your very obedient servants, 
 (Signed) Kildahe. 
 
 Charles Graves, d.d. 
 lloHEKT Andrews, ll.d., qc. 
 Henry George Hughes, q.c. 
 W, Nhuson Hancock, ll d , Secretary. Archibald John Stephens. 
 
 The Riglit Hon. Sir George Grey, Bart., -m,p., 
 Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State 
 For the Home Department. 
 
 Appendix A. Copy of Commission. 
 Appendix B. Copy of Circular to Trustees. 
 Appendix C. Copy of blank form for Trustees. 
 
 Appendix D. Letter from Registrar of the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools to 
 the Secretary of the Commission. 
 
 Appendix E. Opinion of Francis A. Fitzgerald, q.c. 
 
 Appendix F. 
 
 The College, Ennis, 
 January (received the ■22nd), 1855. 
 Sir, — In reply to the Circular from " the Endowed Scliools Commissioners," I beg 
 respectfully to state, tliat "' the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools" have directed me 
 '■ not to make any Returns without iirst communicating with the Governors." 
 
 Your obedient servant, 
 Luke AYiute Kino, Clerk, Ex-Sciiolar, t.c.d. 
 "W. Neilson Hancock, Esq., &c. &c. 
 
 Appendix G. 
 
 Grammar School of Erasmus Smith, 
 
 Galway, February 7th, 1855. 
 Sir, — I have received instructions from the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools to 
 decline, in the most respectful manner, to make any Returns relative to their School at 
 Galway, to the Endowed Schools Commissioners. 
 
 J am also directed to refer t!io Commissioners to the Governors for further explanation, 
 should they desire it. 
 
 I beg leave to add, that I have no pei'sonal interest or object to serve in withholding the 
 required returns. Immediately on receiving the requisition from the Commissioners I 
 communicated with the Governors of Erasmus Smith, and was by them directed to make 
 no Returns without further advice from them. 
 
 Their final instructions did not reach me until this morning, and this must he my apology 
 for not having answered the requisition of the Commissioners at an earlier date. 
 
 I am, Sir, your obedient st^rvant, 
 
 John W. IIallowell, 
 Head Master, Grammar School of 
 To the Secretary of the Endowed Schools Erasmus Smitli, Galway. 
 
 (Ireland) Commission, 
 
 Al'PENDIX H. 
 
 InnisliaiiiKin, February 10th. 1855. 
 Sir, — I have to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 19th January, recpiesting 
 me to forward to "Her Majesty's Commissioners for Inquiry into the Endowments, Funds, 
 and actual condition of all schools in Ireland endowed for the purposes of education," 
 " copies of all Statutes, Charters, Royal Letters, Wills, Deeds, Orders of Visitors, Bye- 
 Laws, Rules and Regulations respecting tlie School of which I am Master," witli several 
 inquiries as to tlie nature of the I'^ndowment, and Returns of the number of pupils for the 
 last tiiree years attending such school, salaries, &c. 
 
 I most respectfully beg to state, in reply, that the scliool at Innishannon, of which 1 am 
 jMaster, is under "the Governors of the Schools founded by I'^rasmus Smith, Esq.,'' and tliat 
 according to their rules I am'not authorized to submit to any examination, or to make any 
 R<;tunis relative to the scliool. I beg to refer tlie Commissioners to the Governors afore- 
 said ior further exjilauation, should they require it. 
 
 I liave the honour to be, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 John IIohgan, 
 W. Neilson Hancock, Esq., Secretary, Master of the School, Innishannon. 
 
 Dublin Castle. 
 
 Appendix L 
 " Abstract of Keturn to an Order of the llonnurable tlie House of Commons," dated 7th 
 April, Ib54, respecting Erasmus Smith's Schools (Ireland). — 6'ee I'arlUnncntary J'cipcr 273. 
 
 I
 
 DOCU.AIENTS. 301 
 
 No. IV. Kii.L.\Loi; DiocES.\N School. KUhhe Divccsau 
 
 Scliool. 
 
 The Memohial of the Pudit nonoural)lo and Kidit Rev. Ludlow Baron Riversdale, „ -TTr , 
 
 * ° ' Jlemorial of Lord 
 
 Bishop, and of the Clergy of the Diocese of Killaloe and Kii.fenora, to the Commis- Bishop and Clergy 
 
 ... n T. 1 1 ci 1 1 ■ T 1 1 "' Killaluc. 
 
 SIGNERS lor Inc|uiring into btate oi Jindowed bcliools m Ireland, 
 
 Showeth — 
 
 That a Diocesan School was formerly efficiently conducted in the town of Killaloe; but 
 that it was annexed, by an Act of Parliament, about twenty-five years ago, to tiie Diocesan 
 School of Limerick, so as to form what is called a District School. 
 
 That the sum of £75 a-yoar, ])reviously payable to the master of the Diocesan School 
 by the Bishop and clergy of the Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora, was, by the aforesaid 
 Act, transferred to the master of the District School in Limerick. 
 
 That memorialists regard it as a grievance to be obliged thus to contribute to the 
 endowment of a school from which they derive no benefit whatever, directly or indirectly, 
 and in which none of the sons of the clergy of the Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora have 
 ever been educated. 
 
 Your memorialists, therefore, respectfully suggest that the sum of £7.5 a-year, which 
 they arc now obliged to contribute to the District School of Limerick, may be transferred 
 to a school in the Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora, on the ne.xt vacancy of the mastership 
 of the District School, for the purpose of assisting the poorer clergy of said diocese in 
 educating their children by the establishment of scholarships in such school, to be obtained 
 by the sons of tiie clergy of said diocese, or the endowment of exhibitions in Trinity 
 College, Dublin, or in any other way that may seem most desirable to the Commissioners, 
 for the benefit of the sons of the clergy of the Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora. 
 
 Memorialists beg to state, that the only school permanently endowed within the Diocese 
 of Killaloe and Kilfenora, and which oifers the prospect of continued efficiency, is the 
 School under the Board of the late Ei'asmns Smith in Knnis, where great facilities might 
 be atfordcd, bv proper arrangements for carrying the oliject of the memorialists into efi'ect. 
 
 August 23rd, 1855. 
 
 Ludlow Killaloe, &e., 
 
 SoMERS II. Payne, v.g., 
 
 John Head, Dean, 
 
 Edmond Knox, Archdeacon, 
 
 William ]\oe. Rector uf Roscrea, 
 
 J. Leslie Stawell, Treasurer of Killaloe, 
 
 Andrew A. Jones, Rector of Kilmore, 
 
 Francis Synge, Vicar of Lockeen, 
 
 William Molloy, Vicar of Ballingarrv, 
 
 James Hastings Allen, Rector of Kiltia- 
 
 anlea, 
 Marcus M'Causland, Rector of Birr, 
 William T. Honan, Rector of JModreeny, 
 R. Harris, Incumbent of Clare Abbey, 
 Henry Fry, Rector and Vicar of Kilkeady, 
 Charles Ward, Vicar of Kilmaley, Ennis, 
 W. B. Savage, Rector of Shinrone, 
 
 [17th May, 1856.] . 
 
 James Martin, Rector of Finnoe, 
 Newcombe Willis, Incumbent of Aglisli- 
 
 cloghane, 
 Francis P. Studdert, Rector of Borrisokane, 
 John Exshaw, Rector of Kinnitty, 
 Robert P. Going, Rector of Teu'ipleharry, 
 William B. Chester, Chancellor of Killaloe, 
 Richard D. Falkiner, Vicar of Ardcrony, 
 Philip Dwyer, Vicar of Tullogh, 
 John Jackson, New Quav, 
 Edward Ryal, Curate of Kilkee, 
 William B. Fry, a.m.. Rector and Vicar of 
 
 Kilruanc, 
 Abraham M. Evanson, Rector and Vicar of 
 
 Aghnameadle, 
 Arthur Tatton, Vicar of Drumcliff, 
 Robert Humpureys, Curate of DrumclifF. 
 
 No. V. Mullingar Diocesan School. MaUingnr Diocesan 
 
 Letter from Rev. E. Tighe Gregory, with enclosures. Schml. 
 
 Information respectfully supplied to the Commissioners of Endowed Schools in Ireland, Jf '*'^''/5°"^ ^'^' •^■ 
 by their obedient, humble servant, ' ^'S''« Gregory. 
 
 E. Tighe Gregory, 
 
 Rector of Kilmore, Diocese of Meatli, and one of 
 His Excellency the Earl of Carlisle's Chaplains. 
 The Dioceses of Ardagh and iMcath were formerly supplied by Diocesan Schools held 
 respectively in Longford and Trim, tlie county towns of Longford and Meath. Their 
 efficiency was tested and proved by the many subsequently distinguished scholars which 
 Dowdell, the eminent master of the former, and Hamilton, of thelatter, sent to Trinity 
 College, Dublin ; amongst these his nephew, the present highly-gifted Professor of 
 Astronomy in that University; and their sites were clearly the most beneficial to the 
 community of the respective dioceses. However, on the death of the Rev. George Irwin, 
 the successor to Dowdell, the Rev. James Hamilton was induced to consent to the 
 embodiment of tlie two diocesan into one district school, to be held in Jlullingar; and 
 obtained by purchase the schoolhouse and ground at Trim his family now possesses and 
 inhabit. But it has never been known what has become of the purchase money of either 
 concern, or, at least, it is a secret as to the clergy and community ; wliile it is patent that 
 it has not been applied to the purchase of another schoolhouse and ground, or site for 
 same, as directed by the Act. Immediately on this, the Rev. ]Mr. Eaton, by some arrange- 53 q^o jjj (,. 107 
 ment, became district schoolmaster, while Mr. Hamilton was in the full possession of his sec. au.' 
 faculties, strength, and high scholastic attainments.
 
 302 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Mallingar Diocesan 
 
 School. 
 
 Letter from Rev. E. 
 Tighe Gregory. 
 1841. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Eaton was preferred to the Endowed School of Galway, and, by some other 
 quiet arrangement, a Mr. M Namara succeeded Rev. Mr. Katon; the school did not succeed 
 with ilr. M'Xamara, and another arrangement was entered into, hy which the Rev. Edward 
 J. Geoghegan succeeded to the charge, which he rendered altogether nominal as regarded 
 a school, except as to unfairly collecting the fees he had tlie unyielding courage to 
 annually demand from the clergy of the respective dioceses, as if a school continued to be 
 hand fide kept, which it has not been for many years.* 
 
 The late Bishop (Townscnd) of Jleath, in a conversation I had with him on the subject, 
 pronounced it "the greatest humbug and job he had ever met or heard of; that he had 
 personally insisted on Mr. Gcogheg.in either keeping a school or resigning, and that his 
 reply was, 'He would do neither;'" and any satisfaction on this point is systematically 
 refused by him, under the pretence that the only obligation on him is to collect from the 
 clergy, and appropriate to himself, the fees whicli he claims, work or play ; and to which 
 he has no right, the duty not being done ; never a free school at any time, under even his 
 predecessors, and the provisions of neither Aetf having been fulfilled, without which, even 
 if a school bmvi fide existed, it would not be a diocesan or district school within the Act. 
 
 An accompanying letter, marked No. II., from i!rs. Fitzgerald, from whom the Rev. Mr. 
 Eaton took the premises he inhabited, proves that the reverend gentleman took same at 
 £36 per annum, for his own and wife's lives, from Mr. Fitzgerald, and that on their death 
 it will revert to the heirs of Fitzgerald. Neither archbishop, bishop, trustees, or any one 
 else, had any thing to do with it: it was a private venture, his own property. 
 
 Mr. M'Xamara, already mentioned, would not take -the house, &c., but took one in the 
 town of Mullingar, for which he paid £50 a year. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Geoghegan pui'chased Mr. Eaton's terminable interest, and the fact of his calling 
 it " Millmount," and not the District School, shows it to be his private property. 
 
 Letter No II. likewise shows there are not anj^ scholars. 
 
 [eNCLOSI'RES.] 
 
 No. I. 
 
 Mullingar, 19th June, 1848. 
 Rev. Sir, — In reply to your letter received this morning, I beg to inform you that I 
 have made inquirj- regarding Mr. Geoghegan's school, and have been informed that he 
 has not had any pupils for a length of time; neither have I ever known him to have 
 any free scholars. 
 
 I remain, Sir, your obedient servant, 
 
 Thomas Tilson. 
 No. II. 
 
 Ballinderry, 20th June, 1848. 
 Dear Sir, — Fitzgerald was from home yesterday, when your letter reached this. He 
 desires me mention to you that the Rev. Mr. Eaton took the premises from his father ; he 
 got a lease of three lives from him. Mr. Geoghegan purchased i\!r. Eaton's interest; he 
 pays us £16 a-yoar. At the death of Mr. and Mrs. Eaton, the place is entirely ours again. 
 Jlr. Geoghegan used to pay us £36 a-year before the railroad passed through the town ; 
 but we got compensation, and the yearly rent, on that account, was reduced. Mr. 
 Geoghegan is paid for a free school, but he has not a single scholar. . . . 
 
 IIarkict M. E. Fitzgerald. 
 
 Borough School of 
 
 fiwords. 
 
 Letter from Arch- 
 bishop Murr.ay to 
 J. Forster, Esq. 
 
 No. VI. Borough School of Swords. 
 
 Letter from Archbishop Murray J to J. Forster, Esq. 
 
 Mountjoy-square, Dublin, I6th December, 1836- 
 My Dear Sir, — I had the pleasure of receiving your kind letter of yesterday, just as I 
 was 8tep[)ing into the carriage to attend an aj>pointnicut of moment. I think I can now 
 exonerate you from the trouble of a visit to Archbishop) Whately, as His Grace is fully 
 convinced that the school in question ought to be placed on the footing which you recom- 
 mend. I have spoken to His Grace more than once upon the subject ; but it docs not 
 depend on him alone to effect the change which yoii contemplate. Jf you can secure the 
 consent of the other trustees, you may fully count on the co-operation of His Grace. It 
 would, however, be courteous to forward to His Grace a copy of the memorial, together 
 with a letter, asking for the support of His Grace when it shall come before the Board. 
 
 I pray you to render my regards acceptable to my valued friends at Swords House, 
 and that you and they will accept the assurance of my sincere wishes, that all may enjoy 
 many happy returns of the approaching festivity. 
 
 I have the honour to remain, with much esteem, my dear Sir, 
 
 Most faithfully yours, 
 (Signed), rj" D. Murray. 
 
 J. Forster, Esq., Swords House, Swords. 
 
 • Accompanying letter from Mr. Tilson, a respectable saddler in Mulling.ar, who I addressed for information, 
 shows this, and the fiu:t is notorious. 
 
 t 21 and 22 George IIL, chiip. 28, providing tliat archbishop, with consent, &c., may cliange site, &c., if a 
 conveyance of land first procured fur not less than i>'M years, at a peppercorn rent. 
 
 ha George IIL, ehnp. 107, sec. 24, to same effect, as to application of proceeds of site. 
 
 t Sec other letters of Arclibishop Murray, Eu. 16,320.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 303 
 
 No. VII. Suggestions ON Education GENERALLY. Swjyeations as to 
 
 Education generally. 
 
 Letter from Lord Bishop of DowN'and v^onnor and Dromore. 
 
 The Palace, Holj wood, November, 1855. Bishop of Dow°n and 
 
 My Lord and Gentlemen, — As T am desirous to place my views in reference to educa^ Gounor and Dromore. 
 tion generally, in Ireland, more in detail tlian I was enabled to do on my examination before 
 you in Belfast, I would take tbe liberty of embodying, in a systematic form, tbc few 
 suggestions which 1 then offered. 
 
 One Board of Managevient. — When asked by your Lordship if I had any observation 
 to make on education generally, I stated tliat I considered it would be of great importance, 
 and tend to tlie progress of education, if all existing Boards* were dissolved, and one Board 
 of paid (Jomniissioncrs appointed for the full and entire management and control of public 
 education in Ireland ; for education, to be eiliciently conducted, sliould, 1 tliink, be grasped 
 as a wliole, and administered as a system; and a Board, constituted on these principles, would 
 be enabled to extend its sphere of operations according to the educational requirements of 
 a district, and would, moreover, posse.ss the incalculable benefit of diffusing knowledge 
 in a uniform and well-organized plan. To carry out these arrangements, Ireland should be 
 treated as one united whole, free from tlie trammels and paralyzing effects of restricted 
 foundations and limited endowments. Tlie Commissioners should have full powers either 
 to remove existing schools, or to establish new ones, and so to foster a more ardent desire 
 for a sound, practical, and useful education amongst the middle classes. 
 
 Patronage of Schools. — This should be exclusively vested in the Commissioners, including 
 the patronage of the Royal and Diocesan Schools, both as regards the head master and the 
 assistants ; by which arrangement a result would be secured which I consider quite 
 necessary to the efficient working of this plan — namely, the power of rewarding the masters 
 of the different grades by promotion. 
 
 Head Masters and Assistants. — All the masters and teachers, being considered as one 
 corps, serving one Board, would feel that, as their promotion was not limited to any 
 particular school, a wider field of promotion was open, and a corresponding emulation for 
 self-improvement excited ; and if, in addition to this open competition, there was a com- 
 petent retiring pension after long services, or in case of sickness or infirmity, I feel assured 
 that there would be always a supply of masters of high scientific and literary attainments 
 available to meet the increasing wants of education. Let them be assured that their 
 honourable but laborious calling held out suitable rewards for merit, and secured a provision 
 for old age, and they woukl feel that teaching was a profession, for which calling they 
 would qualify themselves, and in which vocation they might look forward to S| end their 
 maturer years, and thus to add to their own qualifications that great ancillary to aU 
 teaching — experience. Teaching would not then be considered, as is now the case, a mere 
 temporary employment until other avenues for advancement in life offered. 
 
 Board to Report.— The Board should report annually to the Lord Lieutenant and Council, 
 or to the "Minister of Education," should so desirable an office be created for the 
 supervision and control of education in general, in Great Britain and Ii-eland. Such an 
 appointment, I feel satisfied, would lead to the most valuable results, and give to education 
 that prominence which it deserves ; for it appears to me strange, that whilst aU other 
 departments of the State are administered by re.sponsible heads, education, the most 
 important, is left in a great measure undirected, and too often carried on in a desultory 
 manner. 
 
 Girls' Schools. — In your progress through Ireland, your Lordship and co-Commissioners 
 must Iiave been struck with the scanty provision which exists for the education of the 
 female population of the middle classes. 1 would, therefore, presume to suggest the 
 establishment of girls' schools in large towns, where they miglit receive a liberal, sound, 
 and practical education, of a character calculated to refine their tastes and enlarge their 
 minds ; and, when we consider what a large share of the early training of children devolves 
 on the mother, and how materially their dispositions and tastes are formed from her 
 example and by her instructions, sui-ely the importance of raising the standard of education 
 (in a large and comprehensive sense) among females, so as to qualify them to discharge 
 efficiently those duties which, in afterlife, they may be called upon to fulfil, cannot be 
 too highly estimated. 
 
 Religious Listruction. — The remarks which I have now had the honour of laying before 
 you have only had reference to a secular education ; but you are not to suppose that I am 
 insensible to the value and importance of a sound, early religious training. No system of 
 education, in my mind, can be considered perfect where religion does not form a prominent 
 feature ; but as the country is divided into different rehgious denominations, we must 
 respect the conscientious scruples of those who differ from us, and concede to others the 
 same liberty of conscience which we claim and e.xercise ourselves. 1 consider, then, that 
 the State can only secure the free exercise of conscience, and that it woidd be the duty of 
 the Commissioners rather to provide in thek system the time and opportunity for the 
 religious training of the children of different denominations by their respective teachers, 
 than to prescribe the form and matter of it. Non-compulsion, wliich I hold to be the life 
 
 of aU religious toleration, should be the rule unrestricted exercise of conscience in 
 
 religion the practice. 
 
 Local Aid. — It has often been suggested that no new school should be established 
 without requiring local aid as a necessary condition. This I consider objectionable in 
 
 * This observation does not apply to the National Bo;ird of Education, as it did not come under the jurisdiction 
 of the Commissioners.
 
 304 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Stiggestwns as tn principle, and also calculated to mislead the Commissioners in determining the most 
 Education generalhj. eligible sitcs for iicw scliools. It is objectionable, as it makes pecnniarv grants from a 
 letter fromLord district, and not its educational exigencies, the test to guide the Commissioners in tlio 
 Bishop of liown and location of scliools ; besides, it is calculated to mislead, as local aid is often most capricious. 
 Connor ami Dromore. A rich individual, from a desire to have a school in Jiis neiglibourhood, or from other 
 motives, may subscribe the entire sum stipulated, though the educational wants of the 
 locality may be considerably less tlian those of a poorer one, wliere no local aid could be 
 had, as the very parties likely to avail tliemselves of the scliool for the education of their 
 chddren would consider it sufficient, and miglit not be able to do more, than to pay for 
 their education. Indeed, no voluntary rate for general education is desirable, as it certainly, 
 and not unreasonably, would be expected to confer local control, which would be found 
 disadvantageous, and likely to lead to serious misunderstanding. I hold local inspection 
 to be most valuable, local control most injurious. Local aid sliould be limited to Grand 
 Jury assessment, and that only to the extent of su2)plementing the grant of the Commis- 
 sioners towards building schoolhouses. 
 
 Trusts. — In cases where there exist certain trusts of a denominational character in the 
 bequest of the founder, I think tliat the lieads of the Church of the religious denomination 
 specified, should draw up the rules for the religious education of the children of that 
 denomination, in conformity to the conditions in the will of the testator, but should not 
 othei-wise interfere in the management of the school. I view all trusts restricting the 
 advantages of education to persons of a particular creed, or living in a prescribed locality, 
 as most detrimental to the sjjread of general education ; and, tliough I would strictly 
 conform to the intention of the founder, yet care shoidd be taken to reflect the spirit, 
 rather than, as in some cases, the obsolete letter of the becpiest. 
 
 Property — All the property of the Endowed Schools, from whatever source derived, 
 ought, I conceive, to be thrown into one general fund and administered by the Commis- 
 sioners. And as a considerable portion of tlie present funds apjdicable for education 
 arises from rent of land or houses, it would be desirable to retain it, being a descrijrtion of 
 property annually increasing in value, and not liable to those fluctuations or depressions to 
 which all funded property or capital is subject ; besides, a considerable loss of income 
 ■would be sustained by converting the present landed property of the Endowed Schools 
 into capital, and investing it in public securities. On prudential motives also, distinct from 
 tlie financial, I think that the property of the Commissioners should be represented rather 
 by revenue than capital, as it operates as a check to all temptation to extravagant expen- 
 diture. The Commissioners should, therefore, be restricted in the sale of their landed 
 property, unless in exceptional cases, where, from its proximit}' to large towns, an amount 
 far beyond its intrinsic value could be obtained ; and the exception might be the sale or 
 exchange of land, to facilitate the procuring of new sites. I feel satisfied that, if the lands 
 at various times demised for educational purposes had been faithi'uUy administered, a large 
 revenue, far beyond the educational re(|uirementsof the country, would be available ; and, 
 even now, the judicious management of the existing projjcrty, under one responsible Board, 
 would produce no inconsiderable source of revenue. 
 
 Conclusion — I trust, my Lord and Gentlemen, you will excuse the frankness witli which 
 I have endeavoured to lay before you, brietly, my views on the all-important subject of 
 education, and of the functions of the Board of IManagemcnt, which 1 have recommended in 
 order to carry it on efficiently. How far my suggestions may be desirable or practicable, 
 your present laborious duties, when completed, will best enable you to judge. Satisfied 
 am I that the strict impartiality which has characterized your inquiry, and the absence of 
 all sectarian prejudices which it has exhibited, will recommend your Report to a discerning 
 public as the valuable result of patient investigation, large experience, and enlightened views. 
 I am, my Lord and Gentlemen, 
 
 Your faithful servant, 
 (Signed), ILouekt Down and Con.vou and Dromore. 
 
 Siii/gestionn as lo No. VIII. SUGGESTIONS AS TO DIFFICULTIES OF COMBINING COMMERCIAL AND GrAMMAR 
 
 6:!:!So2S::;:l,i school education. 
 
 Grammar School Letteu from llev. AV. II. GuiLLEMAUD, Head Master of Armagh Royal School. 
 
 hducfitwn. 
 
 Royal School, Armagh, Decend)er 21, 1S55. 
 
 Jf"?"".*','"''"' ^,''^-,^^': jMv- Loitn, — The kind attention accorded to mo by the Connnissionors of Ilndowcd 
 il. Guilltm.ard, Head r;„i i • i i i i • ,i • , • i i i 'i i j. n- ^ ^^ ,i , 
 
 Ma.ster of Arina-'li oCliools ni Irel.ind during their stay \n Armagli, enu)oldens me to oiler to tlieni, through 
 
 Itoyal School. you as their Chairman, a iaw remarks on one particular jjoint connected with their iiupiiries, 
 
 wliicli I am anxious to submit to their consideration and, if possible, to have admitted into 
 
 their Report. 
 
 I am sorry that I was not prepared, on the day of their jjublic Court, to avail myself of 
 their permission to make any suggestions that occurred to me. I'eing, of course, unaware 
 of the line whicli my examination would take, I could not arrange my reilections on any 
 of the subjects connected witli it without some little time for consideration; and J have 
 1)een constantly and closely engaged ever since. I trust, liowever, that 1 may still bo 
 allowed to make a few observations. 
 
 From tlie questions put to nie on that occasion, it was evident tliat the Commissioners 
 were anxious to ascertain my views as to the possibility of combining an English and 
 commercial element with the branches of education ])ursued at a public grammar scliool — 
 such as .Vrmagh — comprising classics, mathematics, history, aritbinetic, drawing, geography, 
 and modern languages. I was asked whether it was not possible and desirable to secure
 
 DOCUMENTS. 305 
 
 the former by the sacrifice of some portion of the latter, if desired by tlic parents of the Suqqcsiiom as to 
 boys; wliether, under the s^ame roof and the same management, the two systems might diffimtties of mm- 
 not be carried out, eitlicr independently of one anotlier or tiartiaily united. I gave my '""'"ji (-""""erri<ilon,i 
 opinii)ii decidedly against tJio i'uasibility of the coudjiiiation. Education. 
 
 Admitting, as I do most fully, the desirablene.ss of ])roviiling good schools of the com- 
 
 mercial class, 1 advocate, at the same time, their seijaratt; and distinct orfranization. They ir'^rs!';ii',"'",,„i'^Yi, ,,i 
 are reqnu'cd to supply a dnierent want, ana to insure a ddlerent end. 1 conceive that no Jiastur of Armagh 
 object could be attained by grafting them on to existing public grammar schools, which l^yal School, 
 could not be secured better by keeping them apart. I have never yet heard of any 
 instance where the combination, in one school, was successful ; although separate insti- 
 tutions, for eacii class of students, under one su[)orintendence, hav((, i am well aware, 
 succeeded ; but tlien, only in very largo towns, and with am])le finids — cases in no way 
 j)arall(d to the ])osition or endowments of the Irish lioyal Schools. 
 
 AV'ith respect to tlie I'higlish element, it was stated by me in evidence that it is by no 
 means neglected in the school at Armagh. Copy-writing and writing from dictation, form 
 part of the regular work of the junior classes; a plain, legible hand, correct spelling, and 
 grammatical construction, are thus ])rovided for. In the upper forms, translations from 
 Greek and Latin authors into P^nglish, essays on themes, recitations 'from the best poets 
 and prose writers, continue and carry forward the same necessary element of a good 
 education. Grammar, I need not say, is far better learnt by the study of Greek or Latin 
 than any otlier language; time devoted to English grammar, by the classical student, is 
 simply time wasted. 
 
 On the other hand. 1 do not myself believe that there is any intrinsic value whatever in 
 what is called the commercial element, as a training for mercantile pursuits, more than 
 this, that it is generally the best that can be obtained by those who are destined to such a 
 career, for the money and the time they can afford to devote to education. It is, in the 
 main, so far as I understand it, a mechanical preparation for the shop or the counting-house, 
 destined too frequently to bo superseded and forgotten when the time comes to apply it. 
 
 In bookdceeping and business correspondence, it is freely admitted that a young man, of 
 average ability, ])icks up. in a few months at the desk, from actual experience, better and 
 more easily, all that another has been years acquiring at school. 
 
 I have been over and over again assured by mercantile men, that they would far rather 
 liave their sons — destined for the same pursuits — educated on the classical than on the 
 comtnercial system; wddch they justly regard as far inferior to the instruction of a good 
 public grammar school, as a training of the mind — the highest aim and result of sound 
 education. 
 
 What, then, is likely to be gained by curtailing and narrowing the superior, in order to 
 make room for the inferior — by forcing the lower study forward, at the cost of displacing 
 the higher ? If classical schools do not meet every want, at least they meet some that are 
 most important. They are, and must be, the nurseries of all the learned i)rofessions — the 
 feeders of the Universities. They have distinct and most weighty functions, which the 
 nation can ill afford to dis])ense with, especially in Ireland. No one can say that there is 
 too large a supply of them. Is it wise to run the risk of confusing, weakening, and spoiling 
 their proper work, by obliging them to comprehend in their system foreign and inferior 
 elements"? Their proper work is to call out, to fashion and sharpen the intellect, tlie 
 taste, the powers of reason and judgment, by close, hard, abstract study; to strengthen 
 the mind, and furnish it with weapons, not for special, but for general use. Are good 
 penmanship and ready reckoning — accounts and ledger entries — worth so much as to be 
 substituted for any part of the deeper, weightier, and more solid subjects by which the 
 young intellect is moulded and invigorated at such schools now? By trying to amalgamate 
 elements that are heterogeneous, we shall do small service to the cause of real education. 
 We may turn out better clerks for the counting-house (though that is very questionable), 
 but we shall, in all probability, have poorer scholars, and shallower mathematicians ; for 
 we shall have confused, and embarrassed, and disjointed the system best adapted for their 
 training. 
 
 I cannot see how any school can work well where the pupils, instead of all pursuing one 
 course, are allowed, at their parents" discretion, to choose the branches of study to be 
 cultivated by them; introducing difhculties of arrangement and classification inconceivable 
 save to those most immediately concerned. 
 
 I will state the question at issue under another aspect, in a plain and simple form. 
 There arc certain schools, of the superior class, hero and there in Ireland, founded by 
 Koyal bounty, as grammar schools, afl'ording education of a high order, gratuitou.sly to 
 many, at a cheap rate to all ; supported by endowments large enough to maintain many of 
 their most distinguished students at College, and, when combined with the fees of paying 
 pupils, to secure highly-educated masters. They are confessedly a benefit to the nation at 
 large, as supplying an education essential to the highest interests of society. That they 
 are discharging their functions satisfactorily — that they are efSciently and conscientiously 
 administered — has been, I hope I ma}- venture to sav, suiHciently elicited by the recent 
 inquiry. The chief, I believe 1 may say the one, complaint against tliem is, that they are 
 what they profess to be — places of academical, as distinguished from commercial, in.structiou; 
 and, as such, not meeting the wants of the immediate neighbourhood. Is it not a just and 
 sufficient reply to urge that, by their very foundation, they are constituted grammar schools — 
 nurseries of learning and not of trade ; that they were meant to be, not Iccal, but national; 
 intended, not to give a special and partial education, for every grade and pursuit of ordi- 
 
 VoL. II. 2 II
 
 306 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Suggestions as to 
 difficulties oy com- 
 bining CormHerciat and 
 Grammar School 
 Education. 
 
 Letter from Rev. W. 
 H. Guillemard, HLad 
 Master of Armagh 
 Eoyal School. 
 
 nary life, to all ; but to fit some, by general intellectual discipline, for the iiigher positions 
 and professions ? There must be such schools somewhere ; if the only public schools of 
 the kind, founded and endowed for this very purpose, and enabled by their endowments 
 to give gratuitous education to those who need it, are altered to serve other objects and 
 meet other requirements, the road to those positions and professions is, so far, closed to 
 all but the comparatively rich ; and the chance of honourable distinction diminished for 
 the children of those who are straggling, without any fault of their own, under the pressure 
 of contracted means. 
 
 From their foundation to the pi-esent day, these institutions have claimed and asserted 
 it as their sjjecial function and province to supply this universally recognised necessity. 
 Are they worthy to be upheld and maintained in their integrity, as essential to the welfare 
 of the whole nation? Or are they to be tampered with, embarrassed, and imperilled, by 
 the endeavour to make them local centres of the kind of education most appreciated by 
 the masses, and to make them, as it is called, more practically and immediately useful to 
 the greatest number of people in tlie vicinity, by reducing them to the lower level of 
 ordinary requirement ? Are they to be stripped of their distinctive academic character as 
 a sacrifice to the paramotint claims of the trading portion of the middle class ? 
 
 I admit that sound instruction of the kind it prizes should be provided for that class, 
 if possible by pubhc endowment, but on an independent and separate basis. But I 
 deprecate the attempt to lower existing institutions of a higher order, equally, if not more, 
 essential to the nation, in order to secure that end. I plead against any innovations calcu- 
 lated in any way to deteriorate the tone and teaching of the superior schools, by thrusting 
 out any portion of their course of study to make way for attainments of a commoner stamp 
 and by introducing a class of pupils with lower aims, and more simply material objects and 
 interests. 
 
 Constituted as they are now, they attract and unite pupils of all ranks in life, and so 
 tend not inconsiderably to cement the social fabric, and produce liarmony and mutual 
 understanding ; and, what is of scarcely less consequence, they are sure of the services of 
 masters of the highest class — men such as I am confident would decline any connexion 
 with them if the contemplated changes were carried out. It will be hard to find any one, 
 educated as a gentleman, accredited by University distinctions, and actuated by a due 
 sense of the dignity of his profession and employment, who woidd be willing to compromise 
 himself by taking part in schools reduced to so very different a level. 
 
 It is hopeless to expect that pupils of the upper classes of society, or masters of the 
 highest order of intellectual and social qualifications, will continue to be connected with 
 these schools, if altered to suit special commercial wants. 
 
 I state the question frankly and nakedly. To many I am quite aware such a result may 
 seem a matter of small consequence compared with what they conceive to be the advantage 
 of the mass of the people. They look upon such" institutions as eleemosynary, and there- 
 fore not involving the upper classes at all : I look upon them also as eleemosynary, but I 
 cannot therefore see why their long-established character should be altered to meet the 
 requirements of a class not one whit more entitled to receive the benefits of their endow- 
 ments — namely, the lower trading portions of the great middle class ; who are quite as 
 well able to educate their children from their own resources. I would rather urge that 
 every class of the community has an equal right to the benefit of all public institutions, 
 which are not clearly restricted to particular classes, so long as they do not, by their 
 participation, exclude those who require gratuitous assistance. And public institutions, 
 such as the Royal Schools, furnishing an education of a distinct and high order, essential 
 to the welfare of the nation, ought, in my opinion, to be still allowed to make that style of 
 education their object; to be still left as centres of that education for the whole nation, 
 and not to be required to change their whole system out of regard to the local wants of a 
 particular class of the community. 
 
 The public schools of I'higland have been and are confessedly of great public utility ; it 
 has not boon thought expedient to sacrifice them to such ideas. Is it wise to risk the 
 usefulness of the only apjiroach to them that Ireland possesses ? 
 
 I have urged with great freedom my views upon this topic, for which I trust 1 may have 
 your Lordship's candid indulgence ; and am, my Lord, with much res])ect, 
 
 Yours most obediently, 
 
 W. II. Guillemard. 
 
 Eratmta Smith 
 
 Grammar School, 
 
 Galwinj. 
 
 Eetum as to Tupils, 
 1849-1855. 
 
 No. IX. Erasmus Smith Grammar School, Galway. 
 Return as to Pupils, 1849-1855. 
 
 1849. 
 
 PupiLs ill all, 
 Free pujiils, 
 Roman Catholics, 
 Roman Catliolics, free, 
 
 1850. 
 
 PupilH in all, 
 Free jiiijiils, 
 Roman (latliolicH, 
 Roman Catholics, free. 
 
 28 
 4 
 8 
 1 
 
 41 
 5 
 
 15 
 1 
 
 1851. 
 
 ru])ils in all, 
 Fruo pupils, 
 Roman Catholics, 
 Roman Catholics, free. 
 
 1852. 
 
 Pupil.'i in all, 
 Proo pupils, 
 Roman Catholics, 
 Roman Catliolicsi, free. 
 
 27 
 
 5 
 
 10 
 
 34 
 6 
 9
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 307 
 
 1853, 
 
 Pupils in nil, 
 Free inijiils, 
 Eonian (latliolics, 
 Roman Ciitiiolics, free, 
 
 1854. 
 
 Pupils in ;il!, 
 Free puj)ils, 
 Roman Catliolica, 
 Roman Catholics, free, 
 
 38 
 G 
 
 10 
 1 
 
 40 
 6 
 
 12 
 2 
 
 1855. 
 
 Pupils in all, 
 Free pupils, 
 Roman Catholics, 
 Roman Catholics, free, 
 
 Eruxmut Smith 
 o/» (rram/fiar St'/tool, 
 
 14 -^ 
 
 10 Keturn as to Pupils, 
 3 ■ 
 
 No free pupils were namo<l by the Governors 
 until 1855. 
 
 John W. IIallowkll, 
 
 Head Master. 
 
 1 849-1 ass. 
 
 Ermmms Smith's 
 
 Enplkh School, Muff, 
 
 Co, Londonderry. 
 
 Minutes of Evidence 
 at Iiiquiry into Com- 
 plaint (if Hev. Mr. 
 
 Assistant Commis- 
 sionor. 
 
 No. X. Erasmus Smith's English School, Muff, County of Londonderry.* 
 
 Minutes of Evidence taken before Wni. Dwycr Ferguson, Esq., Assistant Commissioner, at 
 I'ublic Inquiry held by him on the .31st October, 185G, into the Compbiint of Ecv. Mr. 
 Berivoley, partly inquired into by the Commissioners at the Public Court in Londonderry. 
 
 The Asuistant Commissioner. — This is a Court of Inquiry held by me as an Assistant g^'uV'* '*u^; ^' 
 Commissioner under the Endowed Schools Commission. I am acting under instructions Assistant Commi; 
 I have received from her Majesty's CommLssioners, contained in a letter addressed to me 
 on the 17th of September, 1856. In that letter the Secretary says, "I am directed to 
 request you will hold a Court of Inquiry at Muff iuto the state of the school, with special 
 reference to tlie complaint of the IJev. Mr. Berkeley." Mr. Berkeley made that complaint 
 in a letter addressed in June, 1855, to the Commissioners. In that letter he does not 
 specify precisely the nature of his comjdaint. The Commissioners lield a Public Court of 
 Inquiry, relative to Endowed Schools generally, at Londonderry, on the 11th of October, 
 IBoj. The Rev. Mr. Berkeley and the Rev. Mr. Conroy received notice of that court. 
 The Rev. Mr. Conroy attended, but the Rev.. Mr. Berkeley did not. Mr. Berkeley then 
 forwarded another letter to the Commissioners, bearing date the 16th of October, 1855, in 
 which he states, more specifically than before, what was the nature of his complaint. Both 
 parties received further notice of an inquiry the Commissioners were wiUing to hold on 
 the subject of those complaints, on the 17th of November, 185.', in the Privy Council 
 Chamber, at Dublin Castle. However, neither party found it convenient to attend, for 
 reasons which I am sure were satisfactory. In consequence of that, the Commissioners 
 wished a further opportunity to be given to both parties to appear, and with that view 
 they have authorized me to hold this inquiry, at which to take any evidence that may be 
 offered in reference to the complaints preferred by Mr. Berkeley, or any he may choose to 
 prefer now. According!}-, I have given notice to the parties to attend here. I think it 
 right to state, I have already made my ordinary inspection of the school, and tliat nothing 
 remains to be done here by me but to inquire into the special matter of the complaint 
 made by the Rev. Mr. Berkeley. I think it also right to state, I have no jurisdiction or 
 power to entertain any matter of complaint unless it is preferred before me here now. 
 Any other matter of complaint respecting the school, if suggested to me, I would have felt 
 it my duty to make the subject of inquiry when 1 was making my ordinary examination of 
 the scliool. I have not forgotten any thing that was then suggested to me, either publicly 
 or ])rivately. 
 
 The Rev. John Conroy. — I have to apply to you, sir, for a copy of the lettei's addressed 
 by the Rev. Mr. Berkeley to the Commissioners. 
 
 The Assistant Commissioner. — You have been already furnished with a copy of every 
 thing that it is material for you to know. 
 
 The Rev. Lowry Edmund Berkeley sworn and examined. 
 
 In reference to the application just made by the Rev. Mr. Conroy, I wish to state that 
 I am exceedingly desirous every thing 1 wrote should be made known to him. 
 
 The Assistant Commissioner. — You are Presbyterian Minister of the parish of Faughan- 
 vale ? — Yes. 
 
 When were you appointed to that office? — In the year 1850. 
 
 You addressed a complaint to the Commissiovicrs respecting the Erasmus Smith School 
 at Muff, in June, 1855 ? — I did. [Same is read from Minutes of Evidence before the Com- 
 missioners at Londonderry, 10593.] 
 
 In that letter, whether did you refer to the management of the school by the Superin- 
 tendent, or the conduct of it by the master? — I refeiTed to the management of the school 
 by the Superintendent. 
 
 Did you refer to the course of education? — That was included, for various reasons. 
 There are two points in the complaint. I did not bring any charge. I simply said I 
 thouglit and believed tlie public would like inquiry. My first reason for that was, because of 
 the conduct of the Manager ; and my second reason was, because I believed the public 
 took an interest in such schools, and would like, perhaps, to have them placed on a more 
 liberal basis. My great reason for writing to the Commissioners was because of the 
 tondnct of the Manager of the school towards myself. I also considered it would be for 
 the good of the public at large to have an inquiry into all matters connected with the school. 
 
 Ecv. L. E. Berkeley. 
 
 Vol. IL 
 
 * For eviJeuce as to tliis school, vide 10593-10750. 
 
 2R2
 
 308 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 JErasmus S'luch^s 
 
 Emjtish School, Muff, 
 
 Co. Londonderrij. 
 
 Rev. L. E. Berkeley. 
 
 Was tliat witli any special reference to tlie kind of education? — No; noi- was it that I 
 found any particular fault with the teacliers of the school. I i-eferred to the state of 
 education in the schools generally, and not to this particular school. 
 
 Then I am to understand tliat the I'easons you stated in the letter of the 16th of Octoher, 
 185y, are those to which you referred in your letter written in June? — Yes. [The letter 
 is read as follows : — 
 
 " iMufl^ county Derry, October Kith, 185.5. 
 " Sir, — I am exceedingly sorry that ill health prevented me from attending the meeting 
 of the Endowed Schools Commission in Derry, on Thursday last. AVill you he .so good 
 as to state to the Commissioners the reason of my absence. 1 beg to assure you that 1 
 take the greatest interest in all your proceedings, and trust that they Avill issue in great 
 benefits to the entire community. My experience in my own congregation testifies to the 
 want of an intermediate system of education. Ivegarding Erasmus Smith's School in Muff, 
 I was very much surprised to read in the Londonderry Sentinel the evidence of the Rev. 
 John Conroy, given at your meeting, and T am anxious to know if I shall have an oppor- 
 tunity of laying the facts before you. I will put myself to any inconvenience to do so ; and 
 whilst I state them now, I am quite willing to testify them on oath at any time you ask me. 
 
 " The following letter [addressed by me, on the IGtli June, 1852] to the Governors of 
 the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., will explain itself: — 
 
 " ' I am Presbyterian Minister in the parish of Faughanvale. Tiiere is no daily school 
 in connexion with my church, the school of your Board being the only one in the 
 village. A number of the children of my people attend th.at school, and I have 
 been frequently importuned by the parents to visit it and see how they were progressing. 
 J did so on one occasion during the jiast winter, was most kindly received by the teacher, 
 and asked to hear a class. About three weeks ago 1 repeated my visit, when, to my 
 surprise, the Rev. John Conroy, Incumbent of the parish, entered and addressed riie in the 
 presence of the school, saying, " You have no right to be here — you have no right to 
 examine here." 
 
 " ' May 1 request that you will inform me if I am excluded by the rules of the Board 
 from visiting or examining in your schools. Would you kindly send mo a copy of the rules, 
 with your answer, to this inquiry. Allow me to add, that the two churches in this vicinity 
 have, till this period, been on the most friendly terms. Mr. Conroy I also look upon as a 
 friend, and 1 extremely regret that any thing has occurred to cause this harmony to cease.' 
 
 " After some delay, I received the following reply [from Eustace Thorp, Esq., Assistant 
 Registrar to the Governors, dated the 2ith June, 1 852] : — 
 
 " ' Rev. Sir, — The schools upon this foundation are open to all visitors, and the Govei-nors 
 arc pleased when they learn that they are viewed by persons interested in the education 
 of the children, provided the business is not interrupted. 
 
 " ' The clergyman of the ])arish is, ex officio, the Superintendent, to whom the Governors 
 look for the management of the school. 
 
 " ' I enclose the Governors' rules, and be2:2;in2: that vou will excuse the delay which has 
 occurred in replying to you.' 
 
 "Now, Sir, you will understand, I apprehend, \a by there are ' very few Presbyterians' 
 attending the school. The Governors say the school is ' open to all visitors.' Mr. Con- 
 roy says to you, ' there is to be but one visitor.' The rules say nothing about ' an 
 examiner,' betjond the teacher. Mr. Conroy says there is to be ' but one examiner.' When 
 he told me I had ' no right to be there,' I was examining a class, at the request of the 
 teacher, on a portion of Scripture, on which he said they were to be examined by the 
 Inspector next day. The teacher regarded my examining not as an interru])tion, but as 
 assisting him in his work. But I need not ])ursue the matter further. I\lay 1 request that 
 you will k^t me know if there will be any further investigation of this matter; also that 
 you connnunicat(> the contents of this letter to the Conimissioners, and say that ill health 
 prevented me from attending their meeting. 
 
 " 1 am. Sir, yours faithfully, 
 
 " L. E. Berkeley. 
 
 " To the Secretary of the Endowed Schools Commission." 
 
 TJic Assistant Commissioner. — You have also sent me a letter, in which you state that 
 on a particular day wlien you called to see the school, the Piev. Mr. Conroy entered, and 
 addressing you, said, "You have no right to be licrc — you have no riglit to examine 
 here?"— Yes. 
 
 When was your first visit to the school? — On the 27th of November, 1851. 
 
 At what time in 1850 were you appointed Pi'csbyterian Minister in the parish? — The 
 24th or 2(;th of March. 
 
 Did you never visit the school from March. 1850, fill the 27th of November, 1851 ?— 
 No, simply because I did not know my right ])osirion. 
 
 Could yon fix the date of the transaction at tlie scliool, reA^rrcMl to in your letter of the 
 ]f)th of October, 18.55? — It was on the 27th of May, 1852, the day before the Inspector 
 came here from the Erasmus Smith Board.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 309 
 
 Were you in the habit of visiting the school in the interval between the 27th of Nov., £,f J-'™'^';v,f,7'5(2^ 
 1851,.aud Jlay, 1S52 y— No ; J paid only the two visits to the school. On both occasions 7:<k Lo'nZmle,,^. 
 I was e.xccediiigly well i-cceivcd by tlio teacher, and asked to hear a class. — — 
 
 At the time of'tlieso two visits, were there in tiie sclioul children of members of your Uev. L. E. Ueiktlcy. 
 congregation ? — 1 bcheve there were. I was told, before visiting, tliat there were l^rcs- 
 byterians at tlio school, and I believe there were. 
 
 Do you know in what proportion"'' — 1 do not. 
 
 You stated in your first letter that you visited the school at the request of parents of 
 children in it ? — I did. There arc in my congregation some 1,300 souls, and various mem- 
 bers of the congregation spoke to me about visiting the school. There is a gentleman here 
 who spoke to me on the subjcict. 
 
 For what jnirpose did tlu'v ask you to visit the school ? — To exercise a general superin- 
 tendence, to sec how the children were going on. 
 
 When you visited the school on the first occasion, did you examine a class? — I did. 
 
 In secular or religious education ? — In both. I think my note entered in the book 
 was, that " I visited and examined some classes. The reading and answering good." 
 That was on tlie "ilth of Novemljcr. • 
 
 Did your examination interrupt the business of the school? — I am not aware what the 
 business of the school was. The teacher asked me to (examine. 
 
 Was there any complaint made that you interrupted the business of the school ? — ?s one 
 whatever. 
 
 Did not your examination of tlie class necessarily take it out of the hands of the teacher? 
 — I believe the fact is, that when I came into the school there was a class standing at the 
 desk; the teacher came down to meet me, and a.sked me to examine the class. As to the 
 interru])tion, if there was any, I am not responsible for it. 
 
 At what time of the day, on the occasion of your second visit, on the 27tli of May, 18.52, 
 did you enter the school? — I think it must have been about eleven o'clock. 1 was just 
 walkhig out, performing some of the pastoral visits. 
 
 What class did yon examine on that day? — I examined in Scripture, at the request of 
 the teachei-. His statement to me on that occasion was, that he expected the Inspector 
 next day, who was to examine the pupils on a portion of tlie Scripture ; and that lie would 
 be obliged to me if I examined them on it, so as to prepare them for the visit of the 
 Inspector. I never by any means asked to examine a class in this school. 
 
 Did you ever meet the 11 ev. Mr. Coni-oy in the school before ? — Never. 
 
 State what the Rev. Mr. Conroy said to you on the occasion to which you refer. — I was 
 standing at tlic teacher's desk. Mr. Conroy entered, apparently very much excited, and 
 looking at me, he said — the exact words he used were, " You have no right to be here — 
 you have no right to examine here." I am certain he made use of botli these expressions. 
 
 What did you say in reply ? — Mr. Conroy having said that, immediately attempted to 
 get out. I called to him. "lie having retreated, 1 followed him out immediately, and 
 stated to him I was exceedingly surprised and vexed ; and that if I was wrong in either 
 visiting or examining, that was not the time or the place to tell me. 
 
 Did you make a complaint about this to the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith's 
 Schools?— I did, after the examination day. On the 15th of June, 1852, I addressed to 
 them a letter, which I have embodied in my communication of the 16th of October, 1855, 
 to the Endowed Schools Commis.sion. It was after deliberation I wrote it. I was exceed- 
 ingly anxious not to get into any controversy. It was on the request of Major Scott I 
 wrote the letter. 
 
 Was there at that time any daily school in connexion with your church? — There was 
 not. 
 
 Is that the case now ? — It is not ; we have established a school since. 
 
 Did you receive, in reply to your communication, the letter from the Board of Governors 
 of Erasmus Smith's Schools which you have embodied in your letter of the 16th of Oct., 
 1855, to the Endowed Schools Commission? — Yes. 1 also received two copies of rules. 
 [Same arc delivered in.] 
 
 Did you make any otlier complaint with reference to the management of the school but 
 what you have brought under my notice ? — None. 
 
 Nor do you make any other now ?• — Nor do I make any other now. 
 
 Do you make any complaint with reference to the quality or the character of the course 
 of education ? — No, I do not make a complaint ; but I make a statement that it would be 
 very much for the good of the community if the education were liberalized. One of the rules 
 is, that the children shall be instructed" in the Catechism of the Church of England, and 
 no other. Children of other persuasions are not obliged to remain while that instruction 
 is being given ; but 1 think it would be an improvement if some provision were made for 
 the religious instruction of children, besides those who belong to the Established Church. 
 
 You think that would be an improvement in the Erasmus Smith's Schools ?— -Yes. 
 
 Do you think that exclusive rule has anv efl'ect in preventing Roman Catholics or Pres- 
 byterians from sending their children to the Krasmus Smith's Schools? — I have very fre- 
 quently heard Presbyterians object to sending their children to a school where religious 
 instruction is given only from the Church Catechism. They object that it might be 
 made the means of proselytism. Though Presbyterians are not required to be present, by 
 the rules, during the lessons in the Church Catechism, yet under certain circumstances 
 they might be. 
 
 Have you any statement to make with respect to the management of the school ? — I
 
 310 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Co. Londonderry 
 ReF. L. E. Berkeley. 
 
 Erasmus Smith's wish to State, as Other reasons have been assigned for it, that it was ill health prevented 
 Engbsit School, Muff, ^q from attending, on the notice I received, at the Public Court held in LondoudeiTj. I 
 was anxious also not to appear to push myscif forward. Had the Commissioners sent me 
 a summons, I would have attended. I also received a notice that I miglit attend before 
 the Commissioners in Dublin. It was on a Monda}' morning they were to sit in Dubhn, 
 and as I was notable to get a substitute in my pulpit on the Lord's Day, I therefore could 
 not go. I may state that I never visited the school since the time I was interrupted by 
 the Rev. Mr. Conroy. 
 
 Was it in consequence of what occurred on that occasion ? — Quite so. 
 
 Did you consider the letter which you received from the Board of Governors of Erasmus 
 Smith's Schools satisfactory ? — I did in one respect — that is, it said the school was open to 
 all visitors. I did not in another respect, because it stated the clergyman of the parish 
 was, ex officio, the Superintendent. And the Superintendent having acted in the manner I 
 have described, I did not visit. 
 
 Are you not patron of a National School '? — I am. 
 
 How far is it from this school ? — About ten minutes' walk. 
 
 Do the children of your congregation attend the National School ? — A large number 
 of them do. The name of the school is Fanghanvalc National School, rNo.2. There are two 
 Faughanvales. That school has been opened since the occurrence I speak of. 
 
 Were you instrumental in having that National School established? — I was. I am 
 anxious to state that it was not the interruption of mo here that led to its establishment. 
 
 The scliool was not opened as a sort of opposition school ? — By no means. I am 
 anxious also to state that I visit every school in this neighbourhood; and that, immediately 
 on my coming liere, I was requested hy Major Scott to visit his school, which is under the 
 Church Education Society. According to the letter of the Governors of the Erasmus 
 Smith Schools, this school is open to all visitors. 
 
 2 lie Assistant Commissione7\ — If there are any questions, Mr. Conroy, which you would 
 wish to have put to the Rev. Mr. Berkeley, suggest them, and if I approve of them I wiU 
 ask them. [The following questions are suggested by the Rev. Mr. Conroy.] 
 
 Had you any reason to suppose, before the occurrence in the school of which 
 you speak, that your interference in the school was contrary to the rules '? — Not the 
 slightest. 
 
 Have you made statements respecting the transaction, different from those you have 
 now made ? — No ; not at any time. 
 
 Did you impute that this school illustrated the want of an intermediate system of 
 education ? — No ; I never asked to have this made an intermediate school. 
 
 You say you did not interrupt the business of the school. In what sense did you use 
 the words, " did not interrupt?" — ^What I said was, that if there was an interruption, I 
 was not responsible for it. I do not believe I interrupted the business of the school. 
 
 Did you believe what you did was an assistance ? — I did. The teacher said so. 
 
 Eev. John Conroy. The Rev. John Conroy sworn and examined. 
 
 You are perpetual curate of ]\Iuff? — Incumbent and perpetual curate of Muff. 
 
 When were you appointed? — In November, 1846. 
 
 As such I believe you are considered ex officio Superintendent and Manager of the 
 Erasmus Smith School at Muff? — Yes. 
 
 Wliat do you consider is the nature of the superintendence which is intrusted to you? 
 — I can only go upon JMr. Thorp's letler to me. It is as follows : — 
 
 "Boardroom of the Governors of the Schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esq., 
 11, Kildare-strcct, 24th June, 18a2. 
 
 " Bev. Sin, — 1 am in receipt of your Icttur, dated 22nd instant. I had ])rcviously received 
 a letter of in(|uiry from JMr. Berkeley ; to whom I reply, by this post, that the schools are 
 0])en to all visitors, and tliat tlie Board are pleased when they learn that tliey are viewed 
 by persons interested in the education of the chiUxcn. prov ded the bvsiness is not inter- 
 rupted; that the clergyman of the parish is the ex officio Su])eriiitendent, to whom the 
 Governors look for the management of the school- I enclose your extracts. 
 
 "Yours faithfully, &c., 
 
 " Rev. J. Conroy." "Eustace Thorp. 
 
 AVIiat do you consider the duties and privileges of the Su])erintcndent of the school? — 
 I consider it his duty, and 1 acted upon it, to appoint the master. The Dean wished to 
 appoint the master. 1 said, "No; that is my privilege." 
 
 Do you consider that you have the power to dismiss the master? — Not without just cause. 
 
 Is the master subject to your power of dismissing him? — Certainly not. 1 have only 
 the recommendation of liim. 1 would report him if tliere was any tiling wrong. I recom- 
 mended tlie ])rescnt master to the J5oard of Governois, Another thing I consider to be 
 tlie duty of tlie Su])crintend(Mit and Manager is this, to see tliat the house is in pro])er 
 repair, and that the school requisites arc ])rovided. It is also my duty to enforce the 
 observance of the rules ; to see that the school is properly attended to, and tliat the master 
 docs not absent himself. I cannot allow the business of the school to be interrupted, no 
 matter what any person's feelings may be on the subject. 
 
 I
 
 DOCUMENTS. 311 
 
 Do you think all those arc functions helonging to the Supovintcndcnt, which arc not Emmus Smith's 
 delegated to any one else? — Yes; unless they arc delegated by the autliority of the I'oard Em/lis/i School, Muff, 
 or their Inspector. _ ^"- Lor^dcrry. 
 
 Do you now mean to say, that there can be but one visitor to the school ? — Not at all. Kev. John Conroy. 
 In the sense of a party coining, and investigating and examining in the school, which is 
 synonymous witli Superintendent, tliere is l)ut one visitor? — Yes. 
 
 In your evidence given before the Commissioners, at their public Court, held in 
 Londonderry, you stated — " As I understood the terms of the will were so strict, and 
 the printed rules handed to me, when 1 came, stating there was to bo one patron, Mr, 
 Wiggins, one visitor, the clergyman of the parish ex officio ?" — I did not mean that there 
 was but one visitor. 
 
 Do you consider it the exclusive privilege of the Superintendent of the school to enter 
 it, and take up a class, and question tiic pupils to ascertain their proficiency, or what 
 progress they have made ? — ! do not. 
 
 Do you consider the rules of the school preclude any person, except the Rev. Mr. 
 Hamilton and yourself, from examining tlie cliildreu ? — Provided they do not interrupt 
 the business of tiio school ; and I do not see bow any man can examine without interrupting 
 the bu.siness. 
 
 I want to know whetlier you consider the Rev. Mr. Berkeley infringed the rides ? — I 
 think lie did. My opinion is, simply, that no person, except the Rev. Hugh Hamilton, can 
 examine in the school, witliout interfering in the business irregularly; and I am justified 
 in that opinion by the analogy of the rules of the National Board, by which visitors are 
 allowed to enter, provided they do not interrupt the business or examine classes. 
 
 Is there any rule against a visitor examining in this school ? — I cannot interpret the rules. 
 If a visitor can examine only on the condition that he does not interrupt the business, 
 and if examining interrupts, then he cannot examine at all? — Yes. 
 
 If so, the Rev. Mr. Borke'ey was in the wrong on the occasion in question ? — Quite 
 wrong. The rule of the school is, that no person shall interfere, or interrupt the business 
 of the school. 
 
 But is it the rule that a visitor shall not examine at all ? — lie cannot possibly examine 
 without interfering with the business of tlie scliool. 
 
 Do you produce any rule to that effect ? — No ; nothing, except Mr. Thorp's letter. 
 Do you consider the rules of tiie school indefinite on the subject to which you refer? — 
 I do not believe there are any rules on the subject. 
 
 Do you consider that the teacher has authority to admit any person to ask questions? — No. 
 
 You consider asking questions or examining interrupts tlie business of tlie school? — Yes. 
 
 You stated to the Commissioners in Derrj' that your delicate state of health prevented 
 
 your examining classes in the school for some time ? — Yes. I produce the leave of absence 
 
 given to me by the Bishop of Dcrry. I was very unwell, and am not yet fully recovered. 
 
 I also produce certificates from physicians relative to my state of health. 
 
 When you were in good health and attending the school, did you examine the children? 
 — I never examine them. 
 
 Were you in the habit of going in to ascertain what progress the children were making ? 
 —No. 
 
 Do you consider it to be a part of your duty as Superintendent, to see what progress 
 the children were making ? — No. There is a paid examiner, and I considered it would be 
 interfering with his duties if I examined the classes. 
 Do you say you never examined the children? — No. 
 
 Then what did you mean by this e^ddence given hy you at Derry : — " I have been the 
 greater part of the eighteen months in Dublin and England for the recovery of my health, 
 and when I came home I found the greatest possible difficulty in attending to my Sunday 
 duties. I am only recovering, and when I do recover I will, as I have heretofore done, 
 examine the children as well as visit?" — If you call teaching examining, I did so. I did 
 not, by any chance, examine in the sense of Mr. Hamilton's examination. 
 
 Did you not. from time to time, come into the school and ask questions of the pupils to 
 ascertain whether they wei-e making progress in their education ? — I did not examine 
 them in Scripture. I taught them. The Rev. Mr. Hamilton asked me here one day to 
 examine them, and I said, '■ I will not, it is your business." 
 
 Do you think the children require to be examined oftener than once in twelve months ? 
 — I do not. 
 
 Do you consider the annual examination sufficient to keep up the cflSciency of a school 
 like this ? — I do not. That is the business of Mr. Hamilton and of the Board ; it is not mine. 
 Do you consider the examining of the children deficient? — I do. 
 
 Could that be supplied in any way by tlie local clergyman ? — If the Commissioners give 
 me authority, I wUl come and examine every week. 
 
 Did you understand the rules prevented you from doing so ? — I did, and they prevented 
 not only me, but every other person, from doing so. I state, on oath, that, as my firm 
 conviction. If they interfere in the examinations, they interfere in Mr. Hamilton's duty. 
 
 Do you say that, by the rules of the school, there are no means of ascertaining the 
 progress and proficiency of the pupils except once a-year ? — Yes. 
 
 And that the Superintendent has no power, nor is it his duty, to aid in that proceeding 
 from time to time ? — Certainly. 
 
 At the period in question, in 1852, upon Mr. Hamilton's examination, I believe there 
 were some Presbyterian chddren in the school? — Yes, about thirteen.
 
 312 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COjNOILSSION. 
 
 Erasm'is Smilh'x 
 
 Eniilish School. Muff, 
 
 Co. Luttdonderry. 
 
 ~S\x. John Kyle. 
 
 Key. Jolm Coiiroy. 
 
 Mr. Jolni Kyle sworn and examined. 
 
 Tlie Assistant Commissioner. — You arc master of tliiis school ? — Yes. 
 
 "What was the total number of children on tlie roll on tlio 28th of May, 18 J2? — 
 Ninety five. 
 
 How many were of the Established Church? — Tiie average attendance for the month of 
 Mav, 1S52, was tifty-nine chiklren. Twenty-four were of the Established Church, twenty- 
 one M-ere Itoman Catholics, and eleven were Presbyterians. Tliat was the average 
 proportion. 
 
 The Rev. John Conroy further examined. 
 
 Tlte Assistant Commissioner. — Are you aware whether the Presbyterian children 
 received any religious instruction in the school? — I believe not, except reading' the Bible. 
 Do you consider there was a rule which, iiroperly interpreted, prohibited 'Mr. Berkeley 
 from inquiring into the progress of the pupils, who were of his own denomination, by way 
 of examination? — I do not profess to interpret the rule. I spealc of my interpretation of 
 the instructions of Eustace Tiiorp. According to these instrucrions sent to me, I believe 
 no person whatever is allowed to examine or interfere in the business of the school. 
 
 (Jn the day in question, what did you find Jlr. Berkeley doing when you entered '^ — I 
 did not know Mr. Berkeley was in the school when I went there. I received a notice 
 from Mr. Hamilton, dated the 15th of May, stating his intention to inspect the school on 
 the 2Sth of May, 1852. I came in at the time I supposed the children were being 
 ijrejjared for the examination to be held on the following day. It was for me to see 
 that the compositions were from tlie boys themselves, and that they got no help from the 
 master. When 1 came in I found the business interrupted by the person examining. 
 
 Your evidence amounts to this, that there was a course of examination prescribed by 
 the Inspector which it was the duty of the master to have the children up in ? — Yes. 
 And you were aware the children were not fully prepared ? — Yes. 
 
 You entered the school in order to see that the progi-amme was carried out ? — Yes, as 
 Superintendent, that was part of my duty. 
 
 You consider tliere was a very special progra'nme ])rescribed for the master, which the 
 Inspector, when he came, would expect to see fulfilled? — Yes, I came the day before to 
 see that it was properly done, and I found that business specially interrupted and inter- 
 fered with by a person examining cla.sses. 
 
 You found him obstructing, as you conceive, the business of the school ? — Yes. I said 
 to the master, "' What is the meaning of this, the boys are not writing the theme?" " Oil," 
 said he, '" ^Ir. Berkeley is examining a class." I said, " Oh. very good," and left the house. 
 Arc you jjositive you did not address any statement to ]\Ir. F.erkeley personally ? — I am. 
 Would your memory serve you about the transaction after four years? — Yes. 
 You have heard Mr. Berkeley's positive testimony ? — Yes. 
 
 Your recollection is diflerent from his on the subject? — I did not address a word to Mr. 
 Berkeley. 
 
 Then'you didnot say, "You have no right to be' here?" — Certainly not. 
 If you" said so, would you consider it proper? — 1 believe from his examining the school, 
 and from his interfering with the business of the school, that he liad no right to be there 
 doing so. I do not shrink from asserting that. But I did not speak to him; I spoke to the 
 master, which I had a perfect right to do. 
 
 How did you ascertain i\Ir. Berkeley was interrupting the regular business? — I did not 
 know. 1 saw him sitting near the desk. I asked the master, " ^^'hat is the reason of 
 this?" " Oh," said he, " Mr. Berkeley is examining a class." 1 walked out, and did not 
 retreat or run. 
 
 Did the master make any complaint to you about Mr. Berkeley ? — No. 
 You stated, at Dorry, that you asked Jlr. Hamilton for leave for Mr. Berkeley to visit the 
 school? — I did, decidedly. 
 
 What did you mean by asking permission for him to visit. Is it that he should have the 
 same authority as yourself? — Tliat he shouhl h;ivo whatever authority Mr. Ihimilton could 
 give him; not what 1 could give him. The will of Ih-asmus Smith says, the clergyman of 
 the EstabHshed Church shall have the suijerintcndenco of the school. 1 can not add to 
 or take from the will. I asked permission for Mr, Berkeley to come into the school. 
 
 You simplv asked for the permission, because ho had no right to visit without that per- 
 mission? — Undoubtedly. 
 
 You stated, at Derry, in answer to (picstion 1073.5, "I absolutely asked Mr. Hamilton, 
 the examiner, ibr permission for Jlr. Berkeley to visit the school, and he said he had 
 no authority to do it— the Governors had no autliority." In answer to the next question, 
 you said — " I told himself, the day previous to tiic visit of Mr. Hamilton, the Inspector, 
 that I would ask permission for him to visit the school witii mo." What did you mean by 
 the us(! of the word '• visit" there? — That he should get any authority that Mr. Hamilton 
 could give him. Kustacc; Thorp says the school is open to all visitors. 
 
 Did vou a.sk Mr. Hamilton for ])ermission for this gentleman to visit the school? — Ho 
 had ])(;Vmission, before I asked Mr. Hamilton permission for him, to enter and visit the 
 Bcliool in the same sense as myself. 
 
 You say there was authority, or permission, for the gentleman to visit the school, in a 
 certain sense. In what other sense, then, did yoti a.«k permission for him to visit ? — That 
 he should come into the school, and have whatever liberty Mr. Hamilton could give him.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 313 
 
 Wliat n(l(lirioii;il power did you ask for liiin? — Whatever additional authority Mr. ITaniil- Kmsmus SntUh's 
 ton could j;ivo liini, I would liavo hecn j;lad lio should r('C'civ(\ I'.miUsU Sclwol, Afujf, 
 
 Do you nuviii that you would have licon very ,i,^lad Mr. Hamilton p;avo permission to ' "' ■ """" ""'''J- 
 him to examine the ciiildron? — I would. iindoul)t(!dly. li' Mr. Berkeley writes to the Kev. .Jolm Crjiiroy. 
 Board for authority from tlicin, or from Mr. Hamilton, to examine in the school, 1 will 
 indorse that. 
 
 Arc you under the impression the lioard can give no such power ? — 1 do not know wliat 
 jjower tliey have. 
 
 Have you received any communication in (lie nature oi' instructions, or directions, from 
 the Erasmus Smith Hoard, otiier tlian wiiatyou have ])roduced ? — I have. 
 
 Bo so good as to produce it ? — Ye.s; it is a ])rinted circular, dated ."iOtii rs'ovendier, 185.5, 
 from the " Board-room of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq." 
 It is signed "Hugh Hamilton." — [Same is delivered in.] 
 
 [Tlie following extract is read from the letter] : — 
 
 '■ And the Governors desire me to add their hope that you will continue your co-opera- 
 tion and assistance in improving the school, as f;ir as possible." 
 
 Did you receive any other letters from the Governors of Erasmus Smitli's Schools, or 
 their Secretary, specially, in reference to the transaction of tlie 27th of ^lay, 1852 ?— 
 Certainly not. 
 
 Did the Governors communicate to you the contents, or purport, of ^Ir. Berkeley's 
 letter to them, in reference to tliis transaction ? — They did not. 
 
 What are the instructions you refer to as having, in youropinion, precluded anv person hut 
 Mr. Hamilton from examining in the school? — Tlie letter of the 24tli of .June, 18.32, from 
 Eustace Tliorp, already before you. 
 
 Did you know, before the receipt of that letter of the 24th of June, 1852, of any rule 
 or regulation being in c.^vistence, prohibiting any person from examining in the school? — I 
 did not know of any particular rule ; but from the information I received from Mr. 
 Hamilton, 1 believed such a prohibition existed, for I asked him distinctly. I was acquainted 
 with tlie Erasmus Smith School at Derry. 
 
 Did you over know of this question, about visiting and examining, being raised in that 
 school ? — I did not. Generally, as far as I could learn, the Roman Catholic priests, and 
 the Presbyterian ministers, never interfered in the school. 
 
 What did Mr. Hamilton say to you, that led you to believe the prohibition existed ?— 
 That the clergy of the diiierent denominations were so well acquainted with tlie character 
 of the Erasnuis Smith's Schooks. and the benefits to be derived from them by tlicir people, 
 tliat tliey did not, interfere with the management or superintendence, and that, therefore, 
 no rule was re(|uired. 
 
 Did lie i<ay tiiere was a proliibition ? — He did not. 
 
 Ho stated it was the practice ? — Yes. 
 
 Did you i)revfcnt ^Ir. Berkeley from examining on the occasion in question ? — I did not. 
 
 Did Mr. Berkeley follow you out of the school on that occasion, and say that, even if he 
 was wrong, that was neither the time nor the place to say so? — I do not distinctly recollect 
 that he did. 
 
 How did you know Mr. Bei-keley was interrupting the business ? — I heard liim examining 
 the childi-en. 
 
 How did you know but wlifit he was examining in. was the regular business, and accord- 
 ing to the order of tiio day? — I objected to his examining at all. 
 
 Henry Wig(jins, Esf[., sworn and examined. Henry Wiggins, E^■^^. 
 
 The Assistant Commissioner. — You are the land-agent of the Grocers' Conipaiiv, the 
 patrons of this school ? — Yes. 
 
 You are the acting patron of the school? — Yes. 
 
 Have you any statement to make with reference to the object of the inquiry ? — I am 
 )iot acquaintetl witli tlie working of any other Erasmus Snath School, and 1 have nothing 
 to guide me in reference to them but the printed rules, and I state, on my oath, my belief 
 that, according to tlie printed rules, the examiner who comes once a-ycar, and makes a 
 formal examination, is the regular examiner of the school, that the rector or incumljcnt of 
 this parish is the Superintendent of the school, and that he has a right to do all tliat the 
 Kev. Mr. Conroy has pointed out in his evidence. 1 believe that any person in the parisli 
 may visit the school : but I also believe, from my interpretation of the rules, that such 
 visitors have not the right to examine the children, ily reason for forming that opinion is, 
 that this is a school endowed by a Church of England man. He allows, by the rules of 
 the schools, only one catechism to bo taught therein ; and, I think, the school was evi- 
 dently founded for giving a Protestant education with regard to religious instruction. 
 When I say Protestant, 1 do not mean entirely Church of England ; but tliat it was so far 
 confined to the Church of England, that its catechi.sm alone was allowed to be taught. And 
 I take it, that if any person coidd visit and examine, that the clergymen of other denomi- 
 nations, by visiting and examining, would render nugatory the intentions of the founder, 
 as expressed in the rules of the school. 
 
 Is that answer confined to examinations on religious matters ? — It ajqilies to all matters. 
 If they had the right to examine on one subject, it would go to another. 
 
 You tliink you could not consistently observe the intention of the founder, if the pro- 
 
 VoL. II. 2 S
 
 r,14 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Erasinua Smith's miscuous privilege of examining was given to visitors? — Yes, that is my idea of it- my 
 
 ^ri^XmrW m ■''' intei'l'retatlou of the rules. 
 
 ""'' Have you any knowledge of the transaction that occurred on the 27th of May. 18.52? — 
 
 ircnryWi.Tfjms, Esq. I was not present, I heard a relation of the transaction shortly after. 1 do believe that 
 a mistake has arisen. The thing occurred in a little hurry and excitement. I must say, I 
 alvrays heard Mr. Conroy make the same statement that he has made here to-day, and Mr. 
 Berkeley always made the contrary statement, just as he lias done to-day. It would be 
 very hard for a person at the master's desk in the school, not to suppose, on tlie moment, 
 that another who came in at the door at the other end, was addressing him personally. I 
 believe neither of the gentlemen would be capable of stating an untruth in the matter, or 
 of making any misrepresentation on the subject. 
 
 Was any apology conveyed by you from Mr. Conroy to i\Ir. Berkeley, in reference to 
 what occurred on the 27th of May, 1852 ? — No apology, in my sense of the word. 
 
 Was there any explanation ? — There certainly was an attempt. On my expressing to 
 Mr. Conroy my regret at the difference that had taken place, he authorized me to say what 
 I pleased to Mr. Berkeley, in order to restore harmony. Looking at the matter of tlie 
 thing, I believe Mr. Conroy was correct ; but looking at the manner of the thing, on which 
 I express no opinion, I stated to Mr. Berkeley both my regret, and, I was sure, Mr. Con- 
 roy's, when he reflected upon it, that the manner of the occurrence should have been such. 
 Mr. Conroj' meant no offence. 
 
 Mr. John Kyle. Mr. John Kyle further examined. 
 
 The Assistant Commissioner. — You are the master of the school? — I am. 
 
 Have you a distinct recollection of the transaction, about which evidence has been given 
 here to-day ? — Not exactly. 
 
 If your recollection is not distinct, I would rather that you said nothing on the subject? 
 — I M'ill not state any thing but what I well remember. On all occasions tliat the llev. 
 Mr. Berkeley came into the school 1 received him most courteously — -on three occasions. 
 The day before the inspection in May, 1852, Mr. Berkeley came in — the 27th of May, 1852. 
 This was his last visit. I asked him to hear the class I was hearing m3-self. 
 
 Then Mr. Berkeley did not voluutecr to do it himself? — He did not, on all the occasions 
 I asked him. 
 
 What was the class ? — A Scripture class. 
 
 Was that for the inspection of tlie following day ? — Yes. I put into his hand the 
 printed circular, which stated the subjects of examination. He was in t!ie act of examining 
 from that, when the Rer. Mr. Conroy came in. I\Iy belief, at the time, was that the Rev. 
 Mr. Conroy did ask the Rev. Mr. Berkeley what right he had to examine. That was, and 
 is still, my belief. I thought when Mr. Conroy came in at the door, that he altogether 
 addressed himself to Mr, Berkeley. He came up near to the desk, and asked how it was 
 that Mr. Berkeley was examining. I said, in reply, tliat I asked him to do so. 
 
 Are you quite clear as to whether or not Mr. Conroy said to Mr. Berkeley, " You have 
 no right to be here?" — I will not say those were the e.xact words, but he used similar 
 words. He said to me distinctly, that Mr. Berkeley had no right. 
 
 Which was it, " That he liad no right to be there," or ''No I'ight to examine there ?" 
 — That he had no right to examine. 
 
 Did you make any complaint of the matter? — Not any. 
 
 Do you consider tliat ilr. Berkeley, by taking up that class, interrupted you, or 
 obstructed you in preparing tlie business for the next day ? — No, I believe not. 
 
 AVere you aware wlietlior that was irregular or not? — I was not aware. 
 
 Had you ever received any instructions on the subject? — Not any, previous to that day. 
 
 Did Mr. Berkeley examine classes on the other occasions that he came into the school; 
 — Yes, I always asked him. I was not aware that it was contrary to rule. When I told 
 IMr. Conroy tliat I asked Mr. Berkeley to examine a class, he said, " Oh, very good," and 
 walked out. 
 
 Have j'ou received any rule since on the subject? — No. 
 
 AVould you consider it irregular for ilr. Berkeley to come in and examine a class? — 
 Undoubtedly so, because of the printed circular from tlie assistant secretary. 
 
 What printed circular do you refer to? — I hand it in. [Same is delivered in.] 
 
 Do you consider tliat tliis printed circular introduces a new rule, diflerent from what 
 you knew to be in operation before ? — Decidedly. It is not a rule. I conceive that to 
 convey a strict order to me from the secretary, not to allow any person to examine. 
 
 The printed circular, now handed in, is dated the l.'Jth of September, 185(i, from the 
 " Boar<i-room of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., 1 1 , Kildare- 
 strcct." It is signed, " Eustace Thorp, Assistant Registrar ;" and I read from it the following 
 extract : — " This order not being intended to interrupt the visits of the Church Kducation 
 Society's Inspectors, the Governors desii'e, as licrctofore, tliat they and all other visitors 
 sliall be received with courtesy and attention by the teaciiers, provided the Governors' 
 regulations are not infringed, or the business of the school interfered with." Did you give 
 a statement in writing to Mr. Conroy of tliis transaction ? — I did. 
 
 Have you the original?— No ; but it is contained in the printed pajier produced. 
 
 Was this passage in what you furnished to him : — " I remember the day tiie Rev. Mr. 
 Conroy visited the school, when the Rev. Mr. Berkeley was examining tiic Scripture class.
 
 DOCUMENTS. gl5 
 
 JFr. Conroy reproved me for allowing tlic business of the school to be inteiTuptcd. Mr. Erasmus SmM'$ 
 Conroy a.sked mo why Jlr. Berkeley was examining the class, and I replied, 'I asked ^":/'''<!' Sc/moI. Muff, 
 him ;' when Mr. C'onioy said, ' Very good,' and turned out of tlie school. 1 remember ' "' ^""'''""''■''"J- 
 the day after to be the day of our annual inspection, wlion Mr. Conroy asked the Inspector, Mr. .Jolm Kjlc 
 if he could allow tlic Rev. Mr. ]3erkclcy to examine in tlic school, who answered, it was 
 not in his power, but that he might visit it any time ?" — Yes, that is correct. 
 
 Does tliat convoy the entire of Avhat occurred, as you recollect it ? — It is not the entire. 
 I did not add about his speaking to Mr. Berkeley. 
 
 Did you, at any time, make any statement on tlie subject, different from what you have 
 made here to-day ? — I did not. 
 
 Did you ever say to any one, tliat wliat the Rev. iMr. Conroy said, when he came in, was, 
 "What, what! you have no right to bo here ?"— I .said to-day tliese might not be the 
 e.xact words, but that he ujed some such similar words. My belief is, that wliat he said 
 to the liev. J\Ir. Ik-rkeley was, " You have no right to be here," 
 
 No. XI. JIagherafelt School, Endowed by Hugh Rainey, Esq., County Londondeny. _y,„f/,a„/ye School, 
 
 l-Miluwcd by Hugh 
 
 Notes of Evidence taken by William Dwyer Ferguson, P]sq., Assistant Commissioner, at RuMey, Efq. 
 Public Inquiry held by him on the 24tli September, 1856, into the complaint of ]\Ii-s ^T^^g^ gf'^jence 
 Gaussen, pa -tly inquired into by the Commissioners at their Public Court in Londonderry ; 
 with extracts from his Report, stating result of inquiry. 
 
 Memorandum of Evidence. 
 
 The Assistant Commissioner attended pursuant to notice to hold a special inquiry 
 respecting the matters complained of by Mrs. Gaussen in i-eference to the management of 
 this cliarity. The Rev. Charles King Irwin, superintendent of the school, and rector of 
 Magherafelt, also attended ; and Mrs. Gaussen and her son, the Rev. John Aslie Gaussen, 
 attended. 
 
 Assistant Commissioner reads Mrs. Gaussen's letter to the Commissioners, dated 13th 
 September, 1 8-5.5, ■ which had been read at the Public Court before the Commissioners at 
 Londonderry ; and also the letter, dated 12th October, 1855, as follows : — 
 
 " Mrs. Gaussen, of Magherafelt, county Deny, having written to the Hon. The Commis- 
 sioners for inspecting Endowed Schools, and directing to the Castle, Dublin, feai-s her 
 communication has not reached them. 
 
 " The Endowed School of Magherafelt is a most valuable one, £150 per annum, with a 
 good farm, secured by an Act of Parliament for ever. The object — to clothe, educate, and 
 bind to trades, to Protestant masters, three or four boys every year, taking in as many— 
 the boys getting fees. The school remained under the patronage of Mrs. Gaussen's family 
 for more than half a century ; but her fathei', .John Ash Rainey, being dead, and her 
 <'ldcst son a clergyman in England, the charge of the establishment devolves on the rector 
 of the parish, the Rev. Mr. Irwin. 
 
 '• The house is occupied by a man, his wife, some relatives of his, and a numerous family 
 of small children, instead of a respectable matron and a schoolmaster, as Jlr. IrV)iu will not 
 admit of any inspection or interl'erence. The boys are not instructed even in the most 
 common rudiments. On some occasions they are permitted to get their fees for their 
 relatives, consequentlj' not bound to trades. 
 
 " In more instances than one, Jlr. Irwin took boys out of the school, as servants, and 
 when Mrs. Gaussen expostulated with him, ho requested that she might not write any- 
 more, as he would not answer any letter relative to the school. 
 
 " Mrs. Gaussen believes the establishment is never visited, or very rarely visited by any 
 one. 
 
 " ilrs. Gaussen humbly desires the Commissioners to place the school under some society 
 who will have it done justice to. 
 
 " The original will, and all papers relative to the school, shall be at their disposal, as she 
 has them all."t 
 
 Mrs. Gaussen produces the probate of the will of Hugh Rainey, and it is read l>y the 
 Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 Mrs. Gaussen, sworn and examined. — 1°. As to tliat part of her comjilaint which relates 
 to the manner in which Mr. Irwin assumed the superintendence of the school, states that 
 her family were the patrons and superintendents of the school for more than half a cen- 
 tury, and that when Mr Irwin came to the parish, they were dispossessed, they were put 
 out by force, and their property thrown out. 
 
 * Vide Ev. 10573. t Vide Ev. 105S4. 
 
 Vol II. 2 S 2
 
 316 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Mniherafek School, Rev. C. K. Irwiii. sworn and examined. — Said that being inducted in 1844, to the 
 
 Endov-ed biiHurih living of Maglierafclt, the Lord Primate requested liim to look after this school, and 
 
 """"'' "'' said it was in a state of mystery, and that he could get no information about it. The 
 
 Votes of Evidence. Primate considered it his duty to assert his title as trustee under tlie Act of Parliament, 
 
 and every step taken was under legal advice. Mrs. Gaussen"s father was in jJosseBsion and 
 
 refused to give it uj). 
 
 2°. Mrs. Gausscn complains that the house had been converted into a family residence 
 for the master and a numerous family of small children. 
 
 Mr. Edward Bear, the master, sworn and examined. — Has a wife and .'i.\ children, the 
 eldest, aged thirteen years; the youngest, twelve months. Has also two servant girls. 
 They are both menial servants. There are no other inmates in the house, except the 
 pupils. 
 
 S". Mrs. Gaussen complains that Mr. Irwin does not permit any inspection of the school. 
 Cannot say that any body was ever refused permission to visit the school. Ilcr complaint 
 relates particularly to herself 
 
 ]\Ir. Irwin states: — He admits he does not i)erniit of any interference or special visitation 
 by Mrs. Gaussen. She never was refused admission but at the time when the right of the 
 possession was in dispute — never since. 
 
 He w cmld gladly permit inspection of the ordinary character. 
 
 4°. Mrs. Gaussen complains that the boys are not properly instructed. The boys have 
 left the school and been ap])renticed to tradesmen who could not coimt. Admits she only 
 has heard of this, and that in one instance. 
 
 As to this matter, I reserved its consideration for my personal examination of the pupils, 
 the result of whicli I have given in my report. 
 
 5°. jMrs. Gaussen also complains that she Ijeard that some boys had lifted their appren- 
 tice fees for the purpose of giving it to their relatives, and not of having themselves 
 bound. 
 
 Mr. Irwin denies this charge. The boy alluded to was John Iluglies ; his time for 
 leaving tlie scliool had arrived. His apprentice fee was lodged in tlie ordinary way in the 
 bank, on a deposit receipt, in the joint names of himself and Mr, Irwin, bearing interest for 
 his own benefit ; members of his family had been in America and had written for him, 
 promising to .send him money to bring him out ; Mr. Irwin thought it would be a judicious 
 mode of furthering his advancement to expend his apprentice fee for that purpose, 
 but an earlier opportunity offering for his sister to go to America, Mr. Irwin, at his request, 
 consented that the money should be lent at his (Mr. Irwin's) risk, to the sister, he engaging 
 to replace it. Did not consent to its being made over as a gift. 
 
 6". Mrs. Gaussen com]>Iains that Mr. Irwin took boys out of the school as servants. 
 She stated that, to her own knowledge, Mr. Irwin had taken one hoy to the salt water as a 
 servant. 
 
 Mr. Irwin positively denies this. The boy alluded to was William James M'Glaid, who 
 was badly affected with scrofula, and was sent to the sea side by himself, partly at Mr. 
 Irwin's exjiense, partly at that of the Charity Fund, and partly from the benevoh.'Ut sub- 
 scriptions of others, i\I'Glaid was in private lodgings, and not with Jlr. Irvviu, and 
 never did any service of any description for ilr. Irwin while there. 
 
 [The charge resolved itself into this, that Mrs. Gaussen saw the boy carry water, on one 
 occasion, for the Rev, Mr, Twigg, the curate, Mr. Irwin stated that he knew nothing of 
 this ; tliat the boy certainly was not sent to the sea as a servant ; and that as Mr. Twigg 
 was very kind to the boy, and gave him his dinner almost every day, if he did discharge 
 sucli a service for him occasionally, it was not unreasdoable. ) 
 
 7". Mrs. Gaussen com])lains, generally, that the boys were sent to service instead of 
 being a])prenticed to trades. 
 
 Mr. Irwin admits that boys have been sent to service, and insists that the teims of the 
 will, '-bemg trades or other occu])ations," admit of this course, when advisable. He 
 admits tl'.at one boy, the above-mentioned M'Glaid, was taken into service, by JMr. Irwin, 
 as an ajqirentice, at regular wages, tliougli without a fee. 'I'his was done at the urgent 
 recpiest of his niotlier. the boy having, from a scrofulous disease, lost the ])ower of one of 
 his arms, whicli disabled him from following any trade. His apprentice fee was placed at 
 interest, and accumulated. That boy is now in Dublin, in tiic service of Doctor Todd, 
 as butler, at £1.3 per annum, wages. 
 
 8", ^Irs. Gaussen complains that the fai-m was given to tlie master, antl not kept as a 
 house farm. It was not made; as jjrolitable to the charity as it might have been. She 
 particularly referred to Goodwin, a former teaclier, wiio had grossly niiscuuducted himself 
 
 Mr. Irwin admits the misconduct of Goodwin, and states, that the loss to the charity 
 resulting therefrom did not exceed £8. 
 
 The funds at the disposal of the trustees are about £100 ; they are wholly insufllcient 
 to maintain the charity. A farm is rented from the Salters' Company, at a high rent, and 
 tiiis is given to the master rent fr(>e, for tiie maintenance of the ])upils, together with £5 
 7)er annum for each, in aid of it, Tiiis scheme of management was sulnnitted to the Lord 
 I'rimate, and approved of l)y him, and is carried out accordingly. 
 
 Mr. Irwin subsetpiently handed to me a co])y of the scheme, und which a])peared to 
 mc to bo, perhaps, the only practicable means of dealing with a small farm so circum- 
 stanced. It is valued at a certain rate, wJuch is estimated to be sulKcient remuneration for 
 the support of fifteen boys, with an addition of i"0 per head extra.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 Extract from Report of V.'ii.i.iam Dwyeii Ferguson, Esq., Assistant C'omniissionor. iliuhrujili Sihoct, 
 
 '• (.omplamts as to tlic general iiianagcmeiit of the cliai-ity liavmg been preicrrocl bv a Juancy/Esi/.' 
 Mrs. Gaussen, who is lineally descended from tlie original founder wliosc family liad the . -; — 
 
 management and superintendence of tlic charity for U])wards of fifty years before tlie pre- ,'',i'^Asl^*t-mt''f'I!'^' "'" 
 sent Arciil)isliop of .'\rmagli asserted his title as trustee, under the Act of Parliament, I mUsioncr. 
 liave, in tlie ])resence of i\Irs. GausscMi and lierson, tlie ]{ev. Jolin Aslie (Jaussen, and the licv. 
 Charles Iving Irwin, iiKpiired into tlie subject of tliost; conijilaints so far as they relate 
 to the jjcrsonal conduct of tlie Rev. j\Ir. Jrwin. They appear to me to have been founded 
 upon misapprehension in all respects save one — and that relates to the application of a 
 pu])irs apprentice fee to assist his relative to emigrate. In regard to this it appears, that 
 in a case of urgency the apprentice fee of a pupil, named John Hughes, wliich had been 
 set a])art, and invested on a dc^iosit rec<'ipt for his advancement, and which it was 
 intended to devote to assist him to follow bis relatives to America, was, at liis request, 
 lent to iiis sister, whose turn to go out witii tlie money forwarded by her relatives came 
 first, llr. Irwin swore that it was not given, or bestowed, but merely lent upon an under- 
 taking to return it, and upon his (Mr. Irwin's) own ultimate liability to replace it. I 
 therefore find, that although this application of the money may have been somewhat 
 irregular, it does not warrant any charge of misapplication or malversatitm of the cliarity 
 funds. I have annexed to tliisKeport, byway of schedule, a memorandum of the evidence 
 given in respect of tlie charge jireierrcd by IMrs. Gaussen. 
 
 "I examined five of the pupils, aged, respectively, fourteen, thirteen, Ihirtecn, twelve, 
 twelve years. They wrote from dictation fairly. Only one answered respecfably in grammar 
 and geography ; the rest knew scarcely any thing about either. In arithmetic tables and 
 the pence table, three answered respectably, and two very indifferently. 
 
 "The proficiency of tlie pupils was, on the wliole. very much below the average; but 
 they are, by the terms of tiie ciiarity scheme, retained in tiie school only for three years.'' 
 
 XII. — GovEitNons OF THE ScHOOTS FOUNDED BY Ehasmus Smith, Esq. — Leases referred 
 
 to in Evidence of G. Fetherston, Esq. 
 
 1. Copy of the Lease of Drumachose School, 26th February, 18H. Lea.sc to Governors, 
 with clause requiring instruction in Church Catechism. 
 
 This Indenture, made the twenty-sixth day of February, in the year of our Lord one 
 thousand eight hundred and fourteen, between the Ilcv. Ellas Thackeray, Picctor of Drum- 
 achose, in t!io county of Londonderry, of tlic first part, the Right Kcvcrcnd William, Lord 
 Bishop of Derry, of tlie second pnrt, and the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus 
 Smith, Esq., of the tiiinl part, A\'itncsscth, That in order to enable the said Governors of 
 the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, E^q., to establish and found a school for tiie children 
 in the neighbourhood of the lauds and tenements hereby granted and conveyed, and pur- 
 suant to the powers created by an Act of Parliament passed in the fiftieth year of His 
 Majesty's reign, entitled, "An Act for enabling 'I'enants in Tail and for Life, and also 
 Ecclesiastical Persons, to grant Lands for the purpose of endowing Schools in Ireland," 
 and in consideration of the covenant on the part of the said Governors hereinafter men- 
 tioned, and of the sura of five shillings to bini, the said Ellas 'Ihackcray, in band paid, by 
 the s.'iid Governors, the receipt whereof he doth hereby acknowledge, be. the s:iid Elias 
 Thackeray, hath granteil, bargained, sold, aliened, released, and confirmed, and by these 
 presents doth grant, bargain, sell, alien, release, and conlirm unto the said Governors of the 
 Schools founded by l'>asnins Smith, Esq. (in their actual possession now being, by virtue 
 of a bargain and sale to them thereof, made by the said Elias Thackeray, for tlie term of 
 one whole year, by indenture bearing dato the day ne.xt before the day of the date of 
 these presents, in consideration of the sum of five shillings sterling, and by force of 
 the statute made for transferring uses into possession), and to their successors, all that 
 and those, part of the glebe lands of Druuiachosc, containing one acre; bounded on 
 the east, west, and north, by part of the said glebe lands, and on the south by the lands of 
 Glenkeen; situate in the parish of Druniachose, and county of Loiuli)ndcrry, as describt d 
 and delineated iu a map thereof hereunto annexed. To have and to hold all and singular 
 the hereby granted and released lands and premises, with their ap]Hirtenanccs, unto the 
 said Governors of the schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, and their successors for 
 ever, in trust and for the use of a resident schoolmaster, to be hcreaf'cer appoinled by the 
 said Governors, and to be removable, and another appointed, from time to time, at 
 the pleasure of said Governors and their successors; such schoolmaster to teach all such 
 children as shall be sent to him for that purpose by the order or permission of the said 
 <-iovernors, the Catechism of the Church of the United Kingdom, together also with read- 
 ing and writin<>; the Enjrlish lanii'uasre and arithmetic, in such mode as, from time to lime, 
 shall be directed and ordered bj' the said Governors and their successors. And the said 
 Elias Thackeray doth hereby premise and grant for himself and h's successors that he, 
 the said Elias Thackeray and his successors, the said lands and premises hereinbefore 
 mentioned, and every part and parcel thereof, with their appurtenances, unto the said 
 Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, and their successors, in trust 
 as aforesaid, against him, the said Elias Thackeray and his successors, and against all 
 and every other person or persons whomsoever, shall and will warrant, and for ever defend, 
 by these presents. And the said Governors of the schools founded by Erasmus Smith 
 Esquire, do covenant and agree with the said Elias Thackeray and his successors, to 
 
 Gurcnior.s nflhe 
 
 Sfhvols fonutleti l»i 
 
 Kruamu-i Smif/i, E--:q, 
 
 Laases referred to 
 
 in KvideiiCf of 
 
 (i. Fetlierston, ICgij. 
 
 Diumuc/iose School. 
 
 Least' rcqiiirjiifi 
 
 ill-it ri'rtiou ill ('/uirch 
 
 ( 'iilvrhi^ni.
 
 318 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 (Hocci'nors itf the 
 
 SchuoU founded hi/ 
 
 Urasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Leases referreil to 
 
 in Evidence of 
 
 G. Fetherston, E'q. 
 
 Drumachose Schoo/. 
 
 Lease requirituf 
 
 instruction in Chnrch 
 
 Cnlechism, 
 
 advance, pay, and expend the sum of three hundred pounds for the building of a sclioolliouse 
 on the lands and premises hereby granted and released ; and shall during the time they 
 shall continue the same as and for a schoolhoase, pay the sum of thirty pounds per annum 
 to a schoolmaster for teaching in said school; and shall and will, in case they think (it at 
 any time no longer to continue the same as and for a schoolhonse, pay the sum of thirty 
 pounds per annum to a schoolmaster for teaching in said school ; and sliall and will, in case 
 they think fit at any time no longer to continue the same as and for a schoolhonse, surrender 
 and' give up or convey the said granted and released premises to the said Elias Thackeray 
 and his successors ; and the said William, Lord Bishop of the Diocese of Derry, doth hereby 
 approve of and ratify the said grant and release in trust, as aforesaid. And, in witness 
 whereof, the said Lord' Bishop doth testify his approbation thereof by signing and sealing these 
 presents as a party thereto, according \o the said Act of Parhament ; and the said Elias 
 Tliackeray hath set his hand and seal ; and the treasurer of the said Governors hath, by the 
 order and" directions of the said Governors, set the seal of the said Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., the day and year first above written. 
 
 Elias Thackeray, (Seal). 
 
 W. Derry, (Seal). 
 
 William Downes, Treasurer (Seal). 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the within-named 
 Keverend Elias Thackeray in presence of 
 
 Austin Cooper, 
 John P. Cooper. 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the within-named 
 William, Lord Bishop of Derry, in presence of 
 
 Austin Cooper. 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Treasurer to the 
 Governors of Erasmus Smiths Schools, in presence of 
 
 Austin Cooper. 
 
 A memorial of the within deed was entered in the Register Office, in the City of Dublin, 
 the 10th day of May, 1814, at two o'clock in the afternoon, in book 674, page 301, and 
 number 464,325 ; and the execution of said deed and memorial was duly proved, pursuant 
 to an Act of Parliament in that case made and provided. 
 
 John Griffin, Dep. Kr, 
 
 ' Lidee School. 
 Lease under the Lord 
 
 Lieutenant's School 
 Fund Cvinniissiuners, 
 
 2. Copy of the Lease of Lislee School, 21st September, 1821, made under Lord 
 Lieutenant's School Fund Commissioners. 
 
 This Indenture, made the twenty -first day of September, in the year of our Lord 
 eio'hteen hundred and twenty-four, between the Eight Honourable Henry Earl of Shannon 
 of the first part, the Honourable and Uight Reverend Ihomas Lord Bishop of the Diocese of 
 Cork and Ross of the second part, and the Rev. Henry Jones, minister of the parish of 
 Lislee, of the third part. Whereas, the said Henry Earl of Shannon is seised of an estate 
 in fee in the lands and premises hereinafter mentioned ; and whereas, it is the wish and 
 intention of the said Henry Earl of Shannon to establish a school at Lislee, on said lands ; 
 and whereas, his Excellency, Richard, Marquess Wcllcsley, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, 
 hath, in order to promote the establishment of the said school,_ directed that a sum of fifty 
 pounds should be paid to the said Henry .Jones out of tlie fund granted by Parliament in 
 the fifth year of his present Majesty's reign in aid of schools established by voluntary sub- 
 scriptions in Ireland ; said sum of fifty pounds, together with another sum of fifty pounds 
 to be advanced by the said Henry Jones of his own money, and money to be subscribed by 
 other persons, to bo laid out and expended in and upon the erection of a schoolhonse on said 
 lands, in tlic parish of Lislee aforesaid. Now this Indenture witnesseth that the said 
 Henry Earl of Shannon, in order to provide a convenient plot of ground whereon the said 
 sehooihousc may be built, and for the uses and purposes of same, and of the schoolmaster 
 thereof, by and with the consent and approbation of the said Thomas Lord Bishop of the 
 Diocese of Ross, wherein said lands and premises hereinafter mentioned are situate, and for 
 and in consideration of the sum of five shillings to him the said Henry Earl of Shannon in 
 hand paid by the said minister of the parish of Lislee, the receipt whereof is hereby acknow- 
 ledged, and in pursuance of the powers granted in and by an Act of Parliament pa-scd in 
 the fiftieth year of the reign of his late ^iajcsty King George the Tiiird. entitled, "An Act 
 for cnabUng Tenants in Tail and for Life, and also Ecclesiastical Persons, to grant Land 
 for the purposes of endowing Schools in Ireland," and of all other powers him thereunto 
 enabling ; he, the said Henry Earl of Shannon h;ith granted, bargained, sold, aliened, 
 released, and confirmed, .and by these presents doth grant, bargain, sell, alien, release, and 
 confirm unto the said minister of the parish of Lislee (in his actual possession now being by 
 virtue of a bargain and sale to him thereof made by the said Henry Earl of Shannon for 
 the term of one whole year, by Indenture bearing date the day nc.vt before tlic day of the 
 date of these presents, in consideration of the sum of five shillings, and by force of the 
 statute for transferring uses into possession), and to liis successors, all that and those, that 
 iilot or piece of ground being part of the lands of Ballycdlane, containing one acre English 
 statute measure, or thereabouts, be the same more ur less, hounded on the north, cast, and 
 west by part of said lands of Ballycullane, and on the south by the high road, which said
 
 DOCUMENTS. 319 
 
 premises arc situate, Iving. and being, in tlic parish of Lislcc, county of Cork, and diocese < h.renmrx uf the 
 
 of Ross, and as described and delineated in a map thereof hereon inserted. To liave and to '^'■I'onhfmriJed bi/ 
 
 liold all and singular the said licreby granted and released premises, with their appurtenances, ^'^""""'^ ^"""'' ^"J- 
 
 unto the said minister and his successors for ever, in trust, and for tho use of a resident leases refcrre.l to 
 
 schoolmaster, to be hereafter appointed by the said minister and his successors, and to and in Evidence of 
 
 for no other use, intent, or purpose whatsoever; lie, tlie said minister and his successors, '' '"' ^|^"' ''^''• 
 
 yielding and paying unto the said Henry Earl of Shannon, his heirs and assigns, during the i'^fce Sfhoot. 
 
 continuance of this grant and demise, the sum of one penny on the first day of i\Iay in each •^'f'""'' "'"''''' ''"; f "1'' 
 
 1 •!• 1 11 A 1 *! • 1 X 1 ,11 11.1 . -. jAritlt'ltniit s Srliooi 
 
 and every year, il demanded. And it is hereby expressed and declared that the said grant /.•„„,/ r-,mm/«/oH^r«, 
 is and shall be and remain snliject to and upon the r. gulations and conditions hereinafter 
 mentioned and expressed, that is to say, that the master and masters of said school, for the 
 time being, shall be not only appointed by tho said minister and his successors, but shall be 
 removed and removable from time to time, and at all times, by writing under the hands of 
 tho said minister and his successors, and at his and their sole will and pleasure ; and that 
 such schoolmaster, for the time being, shall teach and instruct all such children as shall be 
 named to him for that purpose by the written direction and permission of tho said minister 
 and his succo-sors, and such others as the said master for the time being shall think fit, in 
 the principles and practice of reading and writing tho English language, and of arithmetic, 
 in such mode, and according to such plan of education, and under and subject to such regu- 
 lations as shall, from time to time, be in writing ordered by the said minister and his suc- 
 cessors. And that no person .shall be pcrniitted. at any time, to take possession of the house 
 and residence to be built on the said lands, or of said lands, or any part thereof, who shall 
 not have first signed and delivered unto the said minister and his successors an agreement 
 on the part of such master to quit and yield up possession of said house, with its appur- 
 tenances, and the said lands and premises, forthwith on the written request of the said 
 minister, or his successors, without other notice. And the said Henry, Earl of Shannon, 
 doth hereby covenant, promise, and agree for himself, his heirs, executors, and adminis- 
 trators, to and with the said minister and his successors, that he, the said Henry, Earl of 
 Shannon, his heirs, executors, and administrators, shall and will warrant, and for ever 
 defend, by these presents, the said lands and premises hereinbefore mentioned, and every 
 part thereof, with their appurtenances, unto the said minister and his successors for ever, in 
 trust, as aforesaid, against him, the said Henry Earl of Shannon, his heirs, execntois, admi- 
 nistrators, and assigns, and against all and every other person and persons deriving by, from, 
 or under him, them, or any of them. And he, the said Ilcnry Jones, for himself, his heirs, 
 executors, and administrators, doth hereby further promise and agree, that he or they shall 
 and will, faithfully and truly, with all convenient speed, expend and cause to be expended, 
 said two sums of fifty pouniis and fifty pounds, making together tho sum of one hundred 
 pounds, in and upon the erection of a house of residence for such schoolmaster for the time 
 being, on said lands, and with suitable accommodation for the convenient instruction of 
 scholars to be taught at such school, as aforesaid. And the said Henry Jones doth hereby 
 covenant and promise for himself and his successors, that he and they shall and will, from 
 time to time, appoint masters to reside in said schoolhouse, to instruct the scholars of said 
 school, as aforesaid. And the said Thomas, Lord Bishop of the Diocese of Cork and Ross, 
 doth hereby approve of, and ratify said grant and release in trust aforesaid. In witness 
 ■whereof the parties aforesaid have hereunto subscribed their names and aftixed their seals 
 the day and year first hereinbel'ore written. 
 
 Shannon, (Seal.) 
 
 Thomas Cork .\nd Ross, (Seal.) 
 Henry Jones, (Seal.) 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Eaid of Shnn- 
 non, in presence of 
 
 Dan. Leahy, 
 Edmond Groves. 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the above-named 
 Henry Jones, in presence of 
 
 Garden Ferry. 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the above-named 
 Thomas, Lord Cork and Ross, in presence of 
 
 W. J. Beaufort. 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered by the above-named 
 Henry, Earl of Shannon, in presence of 
 
 Received from the above named Henry Jones the sum of five shillings sterling, being the 
 consideration money in the foregoing deed mentioned. 
 
 Present. 
 
 A memorial of the within deed was entered in the Registrar OfSce, in the city of Dublin, 
 the eleventh day of August, 1827, at half-past twelve o'clock, in book 287, page 8, and 
 number 550,143 ; and the execution of said deed and memorial was duly proved, pursuant 
 to an Act of Parliament in that case made and provided. 
 
 Fees, &c., 6s. Ge/. Francis Armstrong, D. R.
 
 320 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Oovrrnmn of t/w 3. — Copv of Lease of Rathclaren Sciiooi,, February 23, 1825, made under the Asso- 
 s,ho„h founded h elation for Discountenancinp-' Vice. 
 
 - — This Indenture, made the 23rd day of February, in the year of our Lord 1825, between 
 
 fif EvMence'ot'^ '" ^"" Eni''"'icl Moore of Clounderccn, in the county of Cork, Baronet, of the first part, the 
 G. Fothor.^ton, 'Eni. Honorable and Rifjht Reverend Thomas Lord Bishop of the diocese of Cork and Ross, of 
 — , the second part, and the Rev. Thomas Barry, ilinister, and said Sir Kraanucl Moore and 
 
 L-ase' undi'i-'^A^sucl'- Thomas Bavlev, Esquire, cluirchwardons of the parish of Rathclaren. diocese of Cork, and 
 I'inii fur Visrniiiitc- countv of Cork, of the tliii-d part, witnesseth, that in order to enable the said niini.ster and 
 iwnctiiii \ in-. churchwardens to establish a school in said parish, and in pursuance of the powers granted 
 in and by Act of Parliament, passed in the fiftieth year of the reiijn of his late ^Majesty King 
 George the Third, entitled " An Act for enabling Tenants in Tail and for life, and also 
 ecclesiastical persons, to grant land for tlie purpose of Endowinsr Schools in Ireland,'' and in 
 consideration of the sum of five shillings to him the said Sir Emanuel Moore, in hand paid 
 by the said minister and ch;irclnvardens, the I'ceeipt whereof he doth hereby acknowledge, 
 he the said .Sir Emanuel Moore hath granted, bargained, sold, aliened, released, and con- 
 firmed, and by these presents doth grant, bai'gain, sell, alien, release, and Cdufirm, unto tiio 
 said minister and churchwardens, (^in their actual possession now being, by virtue of a bargain 
 and sale to them thereof, made by the said Sir Emanuel Moore for the term of one whole 
 year, by Indenture bearing date the day ne.'ct before the day of the date of these presents ia 
 consideration of the sum of five shillings sterling, and by force of the statute made for 
 transferring uses into possessions.) and to their successors, all that and those that plot or 
 piece of ground, being part of the lands of Cloundereen, containing one acre measure 
 
 or thereabouts, be the same more or less, bounded on the north and east by the said Sir 
 Emanuel Moore's demesne, on the south by the lands of Burrin, and on the west by the 
 high road leading from Bandon to Burrin Strand, which said premises are situate lying and 
 being in the parish of Rathclaren, barony of East Carbcry, county of Cork, and diocese of 
 Cork, and are described and delineated in a mnp or survey thereof herein inserted. To 
 have and to hold all and singular tlie said hereby granted and released lands and premises, 
 willi their appurtenances unto the said minister and churchwardens and their successors, for 
 ever in trust and for the use of a resident schoomaster to be hereafter appointed by the 
 minister of the said parish for the time being, and to and for no other use, intent or purpose 
 whatsoever. They the said minister and churchwardens and their successors, yielding and 
 paying unto the said Sir Emanuel Moore liis heirs, and assigns, during the continuance of 
 this grant and demise, the sum of one penny on the first day of May in each and every year 
 if duraandcd. And it is hereby expressed and declared that; the said grant is and shall bo 
 and remain subject to, and upon the regulations and conditions hereinaiter mentioned and 
 expressed, that is to say, that the master and masters of said school tor the time being 
 .shall be not only apjiointed by the said minister for the time being, but shall be removed 
 and removable from time to time, and at all times by writing under the hand of the 
 minister for the time being, and at his solo will and pleasure ; and that such schoolmaster for 
 the time being shall teach and instruct all such children as shall be named to him I'or that 
 purpose, by the written direction and permission of the said minister, in the principles and 
 practice of reading and writing the English language and arithmetic, and to such of them 
 as are children of members of the Established (Jhuvch, the Church catechism of the Estab- 
 lished Church of England and Ireland, in such mode and according to such plan of education, 
 and under and subject to such regidatious as sbrdl from time to time bo iu writing ordered 
 by the said minister. And that no person shall be permitted at any time to take possession 
 ot s.aid liouse with its appinlcnances, or the snid lands and premises, who shall not have first 
 signed and delivered to said minister an agreement on the part of such master to quit and 
 yield up possession of said house with its appurtenances, and the said lands and premises, on 
 the TTritten request of the said minister and his successors. And the said Sir Kmanuel 
 Moore, doth hereby covenanl. promise, and agree, for himself, his heirs, executors, and 
 administrators, that ho the said Sir Emanuel Moore, his heirs, executors, and administrators, 
 shall and will warrant and for ever defend by these presents tlie said lands and jircmisos 
 lierciubcfore mentioned, and every part thereof, with their appurtenances unto tiie said 
 minister and churchwardens, and their successors in trust as aforesaid against him, the said 
 Sir Emanuel Moore, his heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns, and against all and everv 
 other person and persons whomsoever. .\iid the said Thomas Barry doth hereby covenant 
 and prnmiso for himself, and his successors, that he and they shall and will i'vnm time to 
 time ajipoiut m.astors to reside in said sohoolhouse, to instruct tin; .scholars of said school as 
 aforesaid. And the said Thomas Lord Bishop of the diocese of Cork atid Koss doth hereby 
 approve of and ratify the said grant and release in trust as aforesaid. In witness whereof 
 the parties aforesaid liave iiercunto subscribed tlieir names and afii.\cd their seals, the day 
 and year first hereinbefore written. 
 
 Emal. Mooiuc, (Seal). 
 
 Thomas Cokk and Ross, (Seal). 
 
 T. Baury, Inciunbent, (Seal). 
 
 Thomas Bayly, (Seal). 
 
 Emal. Moore, (Seal). 
 
 Signed, sealed, and delivered, by the Signed, sealed, and delivered, by the 
 
 abovp-namcd Sir Emal. Moore, above-uatncd T. Barry, in prc- 
 
 and 'J'homas Bayly, in presence of ssnce of 
 
 St. Geouoe Baiiky. St. Geohge BAiiny.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 321 
 
 lleccivod from llio almve nmned iniiilsfor and cliurcInvarJcns the sum of fivo sliillings. 
 bcinr; tbc consideration inunoy in tlic above deed mentioned, 5s. Od. 
 
 Emal. Moohi;. 
 Present, St. George Barry. 
 
 A memorial of the within deed was entered in the Register Office in the city of Dublin, 
 the twenty -fourth day of August, 18'.?;3, at one quarter past three o'cloclv, in book 80.0, page 
 •584, anil No. o-l.'5,519 ; and the execution of said deed and memorial was duly proved, pur- 
 suant to an a('l of I'arliament in that case made and provided. 
 
 Fees and Clerk, . . ,0,y. 1 1 |-d. 
 Inspecting Stamp, . 1 1 
 
 Oi 
 
 D. Mooai;, Deputy Rcgr. 
 
 Gtimnrrs of ihi; 
 
 Srliiinls founded hit 
 
 ICraifmns Sniit/i, I'^si/. 
 
 I/ca^es rofeiTi'il to 
 
 in lOvideiici' of 
 
 0. I'ullicnitoii, Ksij. 
 
 Unthrlnrcn School. 
 
 7.(Y/.sr unilcr Asho- 
 
 ci'idon fnr Oisrouii- 
 
 ttuanrirtij Vit:i:. 
 
 4. — Copy of Lease of Gorf.y Sciiooi,. — 2Sth September, 1840. Leaso to Governors 
 of Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq.. i-equiring instruction in the Holy Scriptures. 
 
 This Indenture, made the twenty-eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord one 
 thousand eight huudi-ed and f irty, between Stephen Ram, of Ramsforti in the county of 
 Wexford, Esquire, of the one p.irt and the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus 
 Smith, Esquire, of the other part, witnesscth, that in order to enable the said Governors 
 of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquh-e. to cstalilish a school or schools to be 
 conducted and managed under the orders of the said Governors for the instruction of the 
 children of t1ie neighbourhood of the lands and tenements horeliy granted and conveyed, 
 and pursuant to the |)o\vers of an Act of Parliament pas.-;ed in the fiftieth year of the reign 
 of his late Majesty King George the Third, entitled " An Act for enabling Tenants in tail 
 and for life, and also for ecclesiastical persons to grant land for the purpose of endowing 
 Schools in L-eland," and of all other powers, him the said Stephen Ram in anywise enabling, 
 and in consideration of the covenant on the part of the said Governors hereinafter men- 
 tioned, and of the sum of five shillings to him the said Stephen Ram in hand paid by the 
 said Governors, the receipt whereof he doth hereby acknowledge, ho the said Stephen 
 Ram hath granted, bargained, sold, aliened, released, and confirmed, and by these presents 
 doth grant, bargain, sell, alien, release, and confirm, unto the said Governors of the schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquii'e, (in their actu.il possession, now being by virtue of a 
 bargain and sale to them thereof made by the said Stephen Ram, by Indenture bearing date 
 the day next before the day of the date of these presents for the term of one whole year, 
 commencing the day next before the day of the date of the same Indenture, in consideration of 
 five shillings sterling, and by force of the statute made for transferring uses into possession), 
 and to their successors and assigns, all that and those that piece or parcel of land or ground 
 called or known by the name of Redmond's Field, containing by admeasurement one acre 
 late Irish plantation measure, -and as the same is more particularly delineated and described 
 iu the map or terchart in the UKU-gin of these presents, and which piece or parcel of land or 
 ground is situate lying and being in the parish of Kilmichaelogue, barony of Gorey and 
 county of Wexford aforesaid. To have and to hold all and singular the said hereby granted 
 and released lands and premises with their appurtenances, unto the said Governors of the 
 schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, and their successors for ever. In trust and 
 for the use of a resident schoolmaster or schoolmistress appointed, or to be appointed by the 
 said Governors, and to be removable from time to time at the pleasure of the said Governors, 
 in manner hereinafter mentioned. And the said Governors of the schools founded by 
 Erasmus Smith, Esquire, do hereby covenant and agree with the said Stephen Rnm that 
 they the said Goverjiors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, and their 
 successors, will from time to time use the house and building which maybe erected on the 
 said piece of ground hereby granted and released or expressed or intended so to be, and all 
 houses and buildings hereafter to be erected thereon, as and for a schoolliouse and residence 
 for the teacher only, in which children shall bo taught and instructed according to the rules 
 and regulations of the said Governors, and in which schools the Holy Scriptui'cs siiall be 
 read, and the children instructed therein, and also shall and wdl keep the said house and 
 building now standing and being, or which shall be erected or built on the said piece or 
 parcel of ground, and all imjn'ovenients made or to be made thereon, in good and substantial 
 repair and condition, provided always, nevertheless, that if at any time hereafter it shall 
 liapi>en that the said schools shall be pormariently discontinued, or that being continued, 
 and that the Holy Scriptures shall not in such school be read and the children instructed 
 therein, then it shall and may be lawful to and for the said Stephen Ram to enter 
 into and upon the said premises hereby granted and conveyed, or meant or intended so 
 to be or any part thereof in the name of the whole to re-enter, and the same to have again 
 repossess and enjo}^ and the said Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, 
 Esijuire, and their successors, and all other occupiers of the said premises or any part 
 thereof, thence and from thenceforth utterly to expel and remove any thing herein contained 
 to the contrary in anywise notwithstanding. Provided always that it shall and may be 
 lawful to and for the said Governors of the Schools founded by Ei-asmus Smith, Esquire, 
 and their successors, from time to time, and at all times hereafter to dismiss all and every or 
 any master or mistress, masters or mistresses, now or hereafter to be appointed to the said 
 
 (rurril Sr/initl. 
 
 /^cftse reqiiiriny 
 Inatruclion in the 
 Ilvbj Scn'jtfiires. 
 
 ;iy master 
 Vol. H. 
 
 2T
 
 322 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Tlic Goi-ernor.t of ihe school, and appoint another or others in their, his, or her places or place at their absolute 
 Schools jounded hi discretion, any thing herein contained to the contrary notwithstanding. In witness whereof 
 
 * ' ' ' tlie said Stephen Ram hath hereunto set his liand and affixed his seal, and the Treasurer 
 
 leases referred to of the said Governors hath by order and direction of tlie said Governors set tlie seal of the 
 G. lYtlierston, Esq. ^'■^^ Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, the day and year first 
 — _ ' above written. 
 
 Core,, School. STEPHEN RaM, (seal) 
 
 Srnpture Lease to ^ \ j 
 
 Corenwrs. Signed, Sealed, and delivered, by the within-namcd Stephen 
 
 Ram, in presence of, R. Owen, of Mihnount, Gorey. (seal.) 
 
 George John Stone, of Blisworth, Northamptonshire. 
 
 Sealed and delivered by the within-named Governors of the 
 Schools founded by ErasmusSmith, Esq. ii: the presence of, 
 
 G. Fethekston H. 
 
 A memorial of the v.'ithin deed was entered in the Registry Office of the city of Dublin, 
 on the first day of October, one thousand eight hundred and forty, at half-past thiee 
 o'clock, in book 19, No. 132, and the execution of said deed and memorial w;;s duly proved, 
 pursuant to an Act of Parliament in that case made and provided. 
 
 Fees, 8*. 
 
 Walter GLAtcoRBER, Deputy Regr. 
 
 No. XIII. Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 Letter of Registrar of Copy of Letter from Registrar of the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus 
 SeTre™r^o\°Co 11 Smith, Esq., to Secretary of the Commissioners, 9th December, 1856, with minute of 
 
 inissioners. Commissioners thereon, 17th December, 185G. 
 
 Board-Room of the Governors of the Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., 
 11, Kildarcstrcet, December 9th, IS'jG. 
 
 Sir, — I have been directed by the Governors of the Erasmus Smith's Schools to lay 
 before the Commissioners the following statement. 
 
 At a public court held by the Commission on Wednesday, the 19th of November, a return 
 made by the Governors was put into the hands of Mr. Fetherston, and he was examined 
 as to the causes wjiich induced the Governors to discontinue certain schools therein 
 mentioned. 
 
 Mr. Fothcrston is not a Governor, lie is the law agent of the Governors, and in that 
 capacity he appeared as a witness upon the summons of the Commissioners. 
 
 The retui-n referred to was made b}' the Governors in obedience to an order of tlie Com- 
 missioners, under the head of observations. The mere fact of the discontinuance of any 
 school was briefly stated. 
 
 The Governors observe that the Commissioners laid great stress on the very imperfect 
 information which Mr. Fetherston was able to give them ; they desire, therefore, to inform 
 the Commissioners that it was not their practice to discontinue any school, and surrender 
 the lands and schoolhouse to tlio grantor, until all the circumstances connected with the 
 school had been previously carefully investigated. In many instances tlioy remonstrated, 
 and recommendcul further trials, and at length reluctantly assented to discontinue, when 
 no hope remained of the future uscfidncss of the school. 
 
 Some of the schools thus abandoned, had been in their day, and for considerable periods, 
 efficient ; they ceased to be so from causes beyond the control of the Governors, which it 
 would be diflicult to discover or explain ; and, moreover, the discontinuance of such schools 
 enable the Governors to establish others in new localities, where education was duly 
 appreciated, and pecuniary aid required. 
 
 The information obtained from ilr, Fetherston was necessarily meagre and unsatisfactory. 
 It was not a subject within his department, and he had not been beforehand apprized that 
 he would be examined respecting it. 
 
 The records of the Governors will disclose the grounds on which they have hitherto 
 acted when they discontinued any school. These records have been unreservedly placed 
 in the hands of the Commissioners; and it is anxiously d(\sind liy the Governors that these 
 records should be submitted to any further scrutiny apjiroved of by the Commissioners, so 
 as to enable them fairly to appreciate the motives by which the Governors were actuated 
 when they abandoned any school. 
 
 The Commissioners also appeared to condemn the form of conveyance used by the 
 Governors when sites for schools were granted to them, because it contained a clause of 
 surrender if the lands should cease to be used for a school. 
 
 This form has been long in use, and was projiarcd and approved of by the Lord Chief 
 Justice Downes, who liad been for many years treasm-er of this charity. 
 
 It was probably adopted because it would have been diflicult to persuade landlords to 
 grant small isolated portions of land in the midst of their estates upon any other terms.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 323 
 
 Tlic Commissioners suggested tli.at if tliese grants had been made to the (iovcrnors The Govrrnors of ih- 
 aljsolutely in i'ee, tlic Governors, in tlie event of any school being discontinued, miglit have jCnJmugSmUh,' l!xii. 
 
 retained the site and the house uj)on it; but it is manifest that sucli small possessions 
 
 scattered lierc and there would have been attended witli infinite trouble and expense, and J;ctttroflicgistrarof 
 no real advantage to the charity. Secretary of 
 
 I have the honour to be your obedient sei-vant, Commissioners. 
 
 IIuoii Hamilton, 
 Eegistrar to the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Schools. 
 W. N. Hancock, Esq., 
 Endowed Schools, Ireland, Commission. 
 
 Minute of the Commissioners on preceding Letter, 17th December, 185G. 
 
 " It appeared from tlie evidence that the sul>ject of the surrender of schoolliouses referred Minute of Com- 
 to in the letter had been brought under the notice of the Governors at the examination of ™'*^^'oner8. 
 Mr. Barlow, on the 7th of December, 1855 — that the return referred to in the letter of the 
 Governors had been ordered from them after the question had been thus raised. 
 
 " That Mr. Barlow in his evidence had specially refen-ed to Mr. Fetherston as the 
 proper person to be examined ' as to the arrangements that were made when the schools 
 were discontinued, and the houses vested in tlie Governors were surrendered,' and as best 
 able to state the general views that had actuated tlie Governors with respect to them, 
 which he (Mr. Barlow) professed himself unable to state. 
 
 " That Mr. Fctherston's e.xamination on the 19th November, 1856, had taken place in 
 ])resence of Mr. Barlow and Jlr. Jones, both Governors, and of Mr. Hamilton and Mr. 
 Thorp, the registrar and assistant registrar. 
 
 " That Mr. Barlow, Mr. Hamilton, and ilr. Thorp had all been summoned, as well as Mr. 
 Fetherston, and were all examined, Mr. Hamilton especially, on the surrender of some of 
 the schoolliouses. and they all liad an opportunity of stating any facts, or suggesting an)* 
 additional evidence in rciercncc to the surrender of the sclioolhouses or as to the prepa- 
 ration of the leases. j 
 
 " That tlie que.-ition under con.sideration was not the motives that had actuated the 
 Governors in discontinuing their assistance to particular schools, and in consequence having 
 to surrender them to the proprietors, but as to the impolicy of expending the charity funds 
 upon deeds containing covenants inconsistent with the charters, and framed on a line of 
 policy detrimental to the interests of the charity. 
 
 "That Mt. Fetherston, the law agent, having admitted such facts in the presence of the 
 (Governors, it docs not a])pear that any public advantage would accrue from further inves- 
 tigation upon this subject." 
 
 No. XIV.— IIuiEUNiAN Marink School, City of Dublin. — State of the Accounts. 
 
 Hiherniwi Aftiri/ic 
 Schooif Uubtin. 
 
 to State of tlio 
 Accounts. 
 
 Copy Letter from the Secretary of the Commission, enclosing Report of Eichard S. 
 
 HicKSON, Esq.. Government Accountant, witli T'opy of Keply of Honorary Secretaries Cjrresponder.co an 
 of Hibernian Marine Society. 
 
 Endowed Schools, Ireland, Commission. 
 Dublin Castle, 15th April, 1856. 
 
 Gentlemen, — 1 am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for Inquiring into 
 Endowed Schools in Ireland, to state that they have received the enclosed Ileport from the 
 Government Accountant employed by tiiem to investigate the financial affairs of several 
 schools having endowments. 
 
 The Commis.sioners desire me to request that you wiU bring this Report under the notice 
 of the Governors of the llibornian i\Iarine Society, as it contains some statements which 
 they think the Governors ought to have an opportunity of considering and explaining 
 before the C"ommi.>sioners proceed further in their inquiiy. 
 
 I have the honour to be, Gentlemen, 
 
 ^'our most obedient servant,' 
 
 (Signed), W. Neilson Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 The Secretaries, Hibernian Marine Society, 
 Sir John Rogerson's Quay. 
 
 Hibernian riLvnixE School, Dublin, 
 
 Endowed Schools Commission Office, 
 10th April, 1S56, 
 The Ledger should contain the following : — 
 
 A funded property account showing the purchase and sale of funds. 
 
 An account of interest and dividends receivable. 
 
 An account of the rents receivable. 
 
 Vol n. 2T2
 
 324 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ilibrntian ^lantie 
 School, Dublin. 
 
 Correspondence a? 
 to State of tlio 
 Account*. 
 
 An account showiiif; the annual subscriptions, which would liavc prevented the sub- 
 scribers falling mucli into arrcar in paying up, &c. 
 
 An account of the " pay pupils," whicli would have enabled the registrar to know 
 exactly how each boy's account stood, and wliich would have jjrovented loss by checking 
 any sums received Ijy tlie master, and niiglit have prevented liis holding over funds. 
 
 An account showing the actual amounts received on each Sunday and holiday in the 
 chapel of the Society, which would also have prevented loss. 
 
 A great tailing otf is observable in the " annual subscriptions" and in the collections in 
 the chapel. In 1841 the subscribers wore twelve; in 18.51 they are only tive ; and previous 
 to 1840 the collections were £10 to £l2 a-year ; they have since gradually fallen ofl" to 
 £3 or £4. 
 
 Between the years 1840 and 1845, the Society sold out of the funds capital amounting 
 to £1.418 1.5,9. M. Since 1850, £411 IO5. 9c?. was rcpurcha-sed. 
 
 I find the duty of the registrar was to ■' receive subscriptions and such other sums of 
 money as directed or empowered to receive, and to pay same, as often as they arise to £50, 
 into the treasurer, the Bank of Ireland," &c., &c. 
 
 Yet I find that the master was permitted to receive and hold over considerable sums of 
 .money received by him for " pay pupils" and the '• Sunday collections," which should 
 have been received and brought to account by the registrar. In 184 7 I find the 
 master absconded, leaving a sunr of .£231 15s. Gd unaccounted for. This sum was 
 deducted from the funds of the Society, and thus became a dead loss, with the exception 
 of £33 4s. M- — -four and a-half years' rent of a field — which the registrar was required to 
 pay out of his salary by instalments. 
 
 I find that although the master had given security in the suni of £1 00, io does not appear 
 that proceedings were taken to recover that amount from bis sureties. The loss may have 
 been greater, as some boys' names do not appear to have been reported to the Board, 
 and in another instance, where a boy's admission was reported, I do not find that that boy 
 was ever paid for. 
 
 I must now further draw attention to the great dispi-oportion which the charge under the 
 head of " salaries and wages" bear to the general e.xpenditure. Taking the average of 
 the last twenty-one years, the salaries and wages are above one-third of the entire expen- 
 diture of the Society, and taking the last six years this disproportion is ranch greater. 
 
 With the foregoing exceptions, the accounts appear satisfactory, and kept on a uniform 
 system, and they appear to be regularly audited at the close of each year. 
 
 IllCU.\UD vS. HlCKSON. 
 
 Cranmer Place, Dublin, 
 10th June, 1850. 
 
 Di;ArL. Sir, — Lest we should appear to have forgotten or neglected your favour of the 
 15th of April, communicating Mr. Hickson's lleport respecting the accounts of the 
 Hibernian Marine Society, I beg to mention that it was read and considered at a meeting 
 of tlie Society, held on the 5th of Alay (His Grace the Archbishop of Ihiblin in the chair), 
 and the principal explanations in answer agreed to ; but at the desire of some members, a 
 i'urther o])portunity of considering it was given to those absent at the former meeting, on 
 the second of this month, and when the reply Jias been read by one or two members, who 
 wish to compare it with the books, it will be forwarded to you. 
 
 AV. Ncilson Hancock, Esq., &c., &c. 
 
 I remain, dear Sir, your faithful servant, 
 
 Andiiew Campbell. 
 
 Hibernian JIarinc School, 
 4th August, 185f). 
 
 Sm, — Your letter of tlio 15th April, enclosing a Ileport by Mr. Ilickson, respecting the 
 accounts of the Hibernian Marine Society, was duly laid before the general meeting of the 
 Society, held on the 5th of May (Ills Grace tlie Archbishop of Dublin in the chair), and 
 having been taken into lurtlior consideration at a meeting held on the 2nd of June (this 
 being rendered necessary by the death of our late registrar, who could have assisted us 
 with information), and the books having been o.\amined, we are instructed to, rej)ly as 
 follows : — 
 
 1st. The Society have no objection to direct that the ledgers do contain the separate 
 accounts suggested in Mr. Hickson'.s Beport, with the exception of the account of ])ay 
 pu])i]s, as tlioy have been discontinued since 1849. 
 
 2nd. The sulfccriptions must vary in dillerent years. The nundior of subscribers in the 
 ])rcsent year amounts to Bi.\tccn, and is likely still further to increase, thus exceeding 
 those of 1841. 
 
 3rd. In the period referred to, collections have fallen off in otlier churches from the 
 effect of poor laws and other causes; and a great change has taken place in the
 
 DOCUMENTS. 325 
 
 ticiglihourliood, many who formerly attoniled tlic cliapcl liavidjx romoved, wlio Iiavp not JfiUmnm Murine 
 been replaced by the sumo respectable class of inhabitants. Sc/mol. Dublin. 
 
 4th. Wo find that at the time of the withdrawal of the Government grant, and hi ConcspomVnpp as 
 consequence thereof, the Society was ]jlaced in pecuniary diliiculties. to .State of ihe 
 
 In the year Ib'.V.) they received a ,L;rant of £l.')0, and yet closed the year with a balance -'^'^counts. 
 in bank less by f'iGU than that with wliich tlu^y began it, showing an expenditure of above 
 £400 beyond the income arising from their private funds. 
 
 In that year the Society memorialed the (iovcrnmcnt for a grant to cover necessary 
 repairs; but only received the above sum of £1.50, which was quite in.sufllcient for the 
 purpose; and in the year 1840, £2S3 was necessarily expended in repairing the roof 
 alone. Tliis fully accounts for tlie sale of stociv in 1840 and 1841. 
 
 The accoutits siiow, in J 843 and tiie years innnediately I'ollowing, a great increase in the 
 ox])ense of diet. 
 
 The ex[)eriment of pay pupils "was tlie cause of great expense, and was, in a financial 
 point of view, unsuccessful, which led to its discontinuance, and this, combined with the 
 dilapidated state of so large a building, increased the difficulties of the Society in its 
 transition state; and as the Governors had from time to time invested money saved from 
 the annual income, they were obliged to sell out again to mec^t their obligations before 
 they hatl succeeded in adapting their exj)enditure to their private resources. 
 
 Mr. llickson's lieport takes notice of the fact, that stock has again been purchased, 
 amounting nominally to £411 10s. !)(Z., of this, £(51 10^. 9(Z. was Bank of Ireland Stock, 
 and cost £130 4»-. M. 
 
 In addition to the above, £.353 8s. Id. consols were added to capital, being arrears 
 of an annuity then recovered, in the latter part of 183.5; besides, the Society lately 
 incurred considerable expense in making the building thoroughly habitable, and they have 
 gradually increased the number of boys from fifteen in 1849 to twenty -nine at the close of 
 185,'), to which one has been since added. 
 
 5th. With respect to the late master absconding, leaving a sum of £231 15.s. Gd. 
 uiuiocounted for, it may be remarked, tiiat the Society bad placed great trust in him, and 
 also relied on the supervision and watchfulness of the registrar, who, doubtless, would have 
 been more careful had he not shared in tliis opinion of his integrity; when, therefore, the 
 master became involved in difliculties, it was not likely he would be soon suspected. 
 
 AVben the .system of pay pupils was introduced, the master was allowed to receive money 
 from them, and this being a new kind of payment, may have been one reason why the 
 registrar was less sharp in looking after it. 
 
 The registrar was, however, obliged to replace rent which he had allowed to remain in 
 the masters hands. 
 
 No legal proceedings were taken again.st the master's sureties, as the Society was advised 
 that, under the circumstances, they would not be successful. 
 
 While the Governors regret the defalcation, they feel satisfaction that it was the only 
 one suffered by the Society during its operation since 17G6, while Government depart- 
 ments and other institutions have not escaped. 
 
 Tiie Society ado]ited precautions to guard against the recurrence of such an event, and 
 etfected a saving of I'.OO a-year in the master's salary*. 
 
 fith. As to salaries and wages. 
 
 The salaries of tliose who are employed by the Society, and had their time occupied as 
 before, could not be reduced to the same extent as the other expenditure of the institution. 
 
 There is a retiring allowance of i'40 a-year paid to a former usher, who had been in the 
 .Society's employment from 1813, and is now seventy-six years of age. The services of this 
 officer were no longer required when the Parliamentary grant was withdrawn ; but the 
 Government did not relieve the Society from tliis expense. 
 
 The Society has reduced salaries and wages since 184G from £382 8s. 2rf. to £298 16s. 4c?., 
 including the above-mentioned pension, which, being deducted, would leave £258 IGs. 4c?. 
 
 On the appointment of a new registrar in Jfarch last, the salary was reduced by the sum 
 of £27 6s. 2d., besides abolishing live per cent, poundage on subscriptions received by 
 former registrar. 
 
 In reference to the proportion of salaries, &c., to the remaining expenditure, it would 
 not be so great as the Report states, if money laid out .since IfcSO in purchasing stock were 
 credited to the Society's annual expenditure, and whicii otherwise would have been employed 
 in supporting more boys. 
 
 We have tlie honour to be, .Sir, 
 
 Your most obedient servants, 
 
 Andrew Campbell, Clerk, "(^ Secretaries, Hibernian 
 John Lawder, j Marine Society. 
 
 W. N, Hancock, Esq., Secretary, 
 
 Endowed Schools Commission.
 
 326 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Madam Mercer's 
 
 School, Castleknock, 
 
 Cvwihj Dublin. 
 
 (Correspondence us 
 to State of the 
 Acooimts. 
 
 No. XY. Madam Mercer's School, 
 
 Castleknock, 
 Accounts. 
 
 County Dublin. — State of the 
 
 Copy of Letter of 
 
 Government Accountant 
 
 Secretary of Commission, enclosing Report ofRicHARDS.HiCKSox, Esq., 
 ;countant, with Copy of Reply of Venerable Archdeacon of Dublin. 
 
 Endowed Schools, Ireland, Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, 31st March, 185G. 
 Sir, — The Commissioners have received the enclosed report from the Government 
 Accountant, employed by them to investigate the financial afiairs of several schools having 
 endowments. 
 
 As you arc a trustee and auditor of the accounts of Madam Mercer's Scliool, and are 
 therefore acquainted with the administration of the charity, the Commissioners have 
 directed me to forward this report to you. It contains some statements which tlicy think 
 the trustees ought to have an opportunity of considering and explaining before the 
 Commissioners proceed further in their inquiry. 
 
 I have the honour to be. Sir, 
 
 Your most obedient servant, 
 (Signed), W. Neilson Hancock. 
 
 The Von. The Archdeacon of Dublin. 
 
 Report on the Accounts of Madam Mercer's School. 
 
 Endowed Schools Commission Office, 
 29th March, IS/iG. 
 I find Mrs. Mercer bequeathed property, 
 
 first, Chargeable with £100 annually, '• to the sick poor of the parishes of St- Dridget, 
 St. Peter's, St. Nicholas Without, and St. Luke's." 
 
 Secondly. For " tlie maintenance of as many Protestant children as the residue of the 
 income could affbrd." 
 
 In examining the accounts connected witli this charity, the most striking feature is the 
 large expenditure in the management both of the estate and of the school, when contrasted 
 with other institutions, and con.sidering the income of the estate, thus : — 
 
 £ .■;. d. 
 
 \ 1853. The rental, which may be taken at gross, . 736 19 3 
 
 Subject, /r.sf, to £100 Irish for four parishes, . 92 6 
 
 Leaving for the second cliarge the schools, 
 
 The c)iaro;es on this sum, including agent's fees 
 
 (£73 145.), law costs, average (£30). bailiff (£5), 
 
 rent-charge, quit rent, archbishop's burgage, poor 
 
 rates, stamps, postage, and car-hire, amount to . 
 
 044 13 3 
 
 150 
 
 Leaving for the school . . . . 4D4 5 10 
 
 The charges for salaries and wages, first paid out 
 
 of the above, amount to . . . . 180 
 
 There is remainijig for maintenance of the children 
 
 10 
 
 Examining into tlic cause of those large dethictions, 1 find, first, tiiat the charge under 
 tlie head of agent's Cdnimi.^sion or fees is. since Marcli, 1834. doidile tlie usual sum charged 
 in other institutions ; tliat those fees are charged on the gross rental of tlie estate, 
 tiiat is, on tlie £100 belonging to the four parishes, as well as on the residue, the property 
 of the school. 
 
 Secondly. I find that great mistakes have been made in charging those fees on the total 
 amount of tlie debit side of the account, including the balance which remained in hand 
 from the previous settlement, and on which amounts the fees had been alrcatly allowed 
 and paid. On some occasions those balances were very large, the amounts were, 
 
 £ s. d. £ s. d. £ 
 
 In October, 1824, 28 17 3 In December, 1831, 5 14 10 In January, 1839, 154 
 
 9 March, 1834, 33 17 8 
 
 2 May, 183G, 239 1 7 
 
 February, 1825, 57 14 
 Januarv, 1830, 12 13 
 
 January, 1846, 10 
 January, 1854. 1 
 
 3 
 19 
 
 
 
 d. 
 6 
 9 
 7i 
 
 Besides the agency fees, it apjiears from tlio following remark, quoted from tlie Cash 
 Rook, at March, 1844, where the fees are first increased to ten per cent., that a per ccntage 
 was also allowed on the bills payable by the treasurer, " exclusive of a per ccntage on 
 Bome tradesmen's accounts deducted, such as baker, butcher, potato mercliant, linen 
 draper, &c., &c. — J.G." 
 
 Several sums (the result of former savings) were from time to lime sold out of the 
 Goveriunent funds to meet the expenditure of the school ; on thos(^ sums the agent's com- 
 mission is allowed, as also on sums received for the maintenance of pay boarders. 
 
 The charges for law costs appear likewise very heavy. The average for the last twentj'- 
 fivc years is at least £30 per annum, or five per cent, on the gross income of the school. 
 
 There is no rental of the estate kept at all, therefore no record of any arrears. Tho
 
 DOCUMEJsITS. 327 
 
 rents arc cntcrod in the Cash Book as received— whether sums on account or otherwise — Ma,l,.m Afcmr's 
 and a reference must therefore bo made to the former payments in eacli case. Sc/iool, CauMmocA, 
 
 There are some few entries iu tlie Cash Book whicli require ("xplanation, sucli. for '^""'"i^ubth. 
 instance, as a balance of £62 5.v. !)</. (February, 1825) stated to be " dehvered to the Jlev. Correspondence as 
 Riciiard Drury, 8th February, 1S25, and by him lianded to tlie Archbishop of Dubhu," and '» State of tlie 
 not afterwards accounted for. Accounts. 
 
 A half-year's dividend on Government stock from bank, amount £5 .'5.9. lOcZ. (April, 1 827), 
 appears to liave been omitted to liavc been credited to the scliool fund. 
 
 Considerable reductions in some of the rents took place ; but as the firiginal rents 
 continued to bo returned, as received, on the d(;bit side of the cash account (the aJKitemcnts 
 bemg entered per contra), the agent's fees became charged on tlie larger amount and 
 not on the reduced rents actually received, for instance, "Dixon's (late Major Eccles) rent 
 reduced from Jlay, 184 4, from £1 7r> to £150, for four years, when a further reduction was 
 made. During these four years, £10 allowed in fees on money not received. 
 
 The following remark appears in the Tarliamentary Reports of 1809-12 in reference to 
 the funds of this school :— " The sum of £4.00 five per cent, stock has been lately bought 
 out of the savings, and two bequests to the school, adding now £22 10.y. per annum to the 
 income of the charity." 
 
 There is now no mention or trace of these tv>-o bequests. 
 
 E. S. IIlCKSON. 
 
 Wilton-square, 
 
 6th May, 1856, 
 
 Dkar Sir, — In reference to your ofiicial letter of 31st March, on behalf of the Endowed 
 Schools Commission, enclosing the Government Accountant's Bc[)ort upon "Madam 
 Mercer's School," I beg leave to state that I brought the subject before a meeting of the 
 trustees, who referred it to a sub-committee consisting of the Dean of St. Patrick's and 
 myself 
 
 We might have sent in our reply sooner, had we confined ourselves to those points of 
 which the present trustees were cognizant ; but we thought it would bo satisfactory, if 
 possible, to procure information on matters referred to by the Accountant, of a date prior 
 to all the present trustees, and which were not to be exphiined by any documents in our 
 possession; and as this involved a troublesome search into the books of the Bank of 
 Ireland, it necessarily took up some time. 
 
 I now enclose the Report of the sub-committee, which has been approved by the 
 trustees of Mercer's Estate. 
 
 It may be as well here to mention that the minister of St. Bride's, who has held the 
 agency for about twenty-eight years has tendered his resignation of the pecuniary depart- 
 ment of the management ; but, anxious that the school should not suft'er for want of that 
 constant superintendence whicli it so long enjoyed under the former arrangements, he has 
 in the kindest manner volunteered to serve in that department gratuitously. And the 
 trustees have appointed more business agents for the estate on the usual terms of five per cent. 
 
 This arrangement will, doubtless, bo an immediate benefit in point of economy, and 
 without disadvantage to the school, so long as the present minister of St. Bride's is able to 
 continue his indefatigable labours in the superintendence of it. 
 
 I am, dear Sir, very faithfully yours, 
 W. Neilson Hancock, Esq., &c. J. West. 
 
 To the Trustees of Mrs. JIary Meucer's Schools. 
 The Report of the Committee appointed by resolution of the 19th day of April, 1856, to 
 investigate the circumstances referred to by the Letter of the Commissioners of Endowed 
 Schools, dated 31st March, 18; 6. 
 
 We, the undersigned, have examined into the several matters to us referred, and we find 
 
 That in the tabular statement of the funds and expenses of the school, as comprised in 
 the Commissioners' letter, the item £ 180 is as really incidental to the support of the school 
 as the £314 5.<t. Idd., and we conceive should not be separated from it. 
 
 That although the number of children primarily contemplated by the will of the endower 
 was not less than twenty-five, there have sometimes been many more, and there now are in 
 the school no less than thirty-four, including four paying pupils. 
 
 That it appeared, almost, if not absolutely, necessary, that the detail of the management 
 of the school, under the orders and directions of the trustees, should be placecf in the 
 hands of some one individual, and from the earliest period it devolved upon, and was 
 committed to, the minister of St. Bridget's Parish, who devoted his personal attention 
 accordingly to it. When the present minister of that parish came into office iu 1828, he 
 conceived it was his duty to follow the course of proceeding which had been allotted to his 
 predecessors; this involved the contracting with tradespeople, paying their bills, inspecting 
 their work, and the provision and necessaries supplied, as well as receiving the rents and 
 income, making all necessary payments, and keeping all the accounts ; and the trustees, see- 
 ing that this duty occupied a large portion of the present minister's time, the school beino- 
 situate at a considerable distance from town — when at Rathcool eight iniles, and now six
 
 328 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Madam Ma'Ccrs 
 
 Schnol, Casdeknocl: 
 
 (^onuty Dublin. 
 
 ( 'oiTC'spondcnop as 
 to .State of tl.e 
 Actomits. 
 
 miles — and iiivolviiip; finiitant attcuilaiico. close investigation, and siipcrir.tcndcnco of the 
 school, altogotlier distinct from, and in addition to, the mere agency and kcej^ing of tiie 
 accounts, did, on the motion of the late Dean of St. Patrick's, resolve that he should 
 receive ten per cent, as remuneration ; and the fees are cliarged on the gross rental, as the 
 revenue of the estate had always been considered and dealt with as one common fund, and 
 to which v.-e see no oljjection. 
 
 Tliat the present minister of St. Bridget's admits that tho letter of the Commissioners 
 dkected his attention to a very great mistake in his accounts, wherehy he appears to have 
 charged fees on balances brought forward, which was an error tliat should not have occurred ; 
 but he was totally unconscious of it until the receipt of the Commissioners' letter, and he has 
 at once repaired the injury, and placed to the credit of the institution a sum equivalent to 
 the amount of the i'ees so charged erroneously, including those on the balance of the year 
 1850, which was £"225 12.*. lOi/.. in addition to, and besides those ob.'^erved on by the 
 Connuissioncrs' letter. 
 
 That the remark quoted f'roni the Cash Book, at March, 1834. docs not refer to any part 
 of the e.xpenditure authorized by the trustees; it alludes to a trifling compliment made by 
 some of the tradesmen, in consideration of the minister having frequently accommodated 
 them by advances of his own money, when the funds of the institution were not in hand to 
 discharge their demands: and although being a matter between those tradesmen and the 
 agent, in which tiie institution suli'ered no loss vrli.itcver, the agent felt it rii:ht, neverthe- 
 less, to state it a.K he did in tlie remark alluded to, in order tliat it should not be of a 
 clandestine nature. It is not to occur again. 
 
 That the minister, Avho acted as agent, conceived he had a right to his fees on throw- 
 ing the produce of stock sold into the common fund received by him for tlie expenditure 
 of the school; as. however, this is deemed an error, h.e has debited himself with the amount 
 of those fees, and pi seed it to the credit of the institution in his current account. 
 
 That the funds arising irom pay boarders appear to be as much annual income as rents, 
 and are quite as troublesome to collect ; and we consider the agent who has the duty of 
 collecting them is reasonably entitled to his agency fees upon them. 
 
 That the trustees appear to have only employed their solicitor wlien the protection of 
 the estate and property of the institution, and its rights, required it. There is nothing 
 charged for that was not done, nor anything done that was not necessary. It may be a fact 
 that the costs may have amounted to the average stated ; but it is considered a mistake to 
 judge of costs by an ad valorem per centage. Law expenses cannot properly be estimated 
 by any fixed ])roportion to the value of the subject of litigation, inasmuch as it might 
 involve the same course of proceedings and consequent expense to defend or recover 
 £1.000 that it would £-iO,000. 
 
 That the minister, acting as agent, has had a general rental of the estate ; but it has not 
 been of latter years the habit of his predecessors (and he only followed in their mode of 
 keeping the accounts) to make an annual rental. lie found that the books, as they Iiavc 
 been kept, sufficiently enabled him to collect and recover the rents as they accrued, without 
 any reduplication of entries, and it is a fact that there arc no arrears due. 
 
 The sugge.sti<jn, however, tliat there ought to be an annual rental is deemed a good one, 
 and it should he adopted in future. 
 
 That it a[)peai-s that the balance of £02 iJs- 9d. observed upon, was given to the then 
 Archbishop in the year 1825; and by the bank books tliat same was invested by His Grace 
 in Governinent stock for the use of the school, and formed part of the fund then belonging 
 to the trustees in such Governinent stock. 
 
 That the omi.ssion of £5 3s. \0d. in AprU, 1827, observed on, occurred in the manage- 
 ment of the former trustees and agent. 
 
 That Vihen mere temporary abatements, .arising out of the necessities of the times, were 
 made, the minister, acting as agent, in keeping the rent account debited the tenant with 
 the full rent, and then deducting the abatement as a temporary allowance, credited him 
 with same, and debited the institution ])er contra with the allowance, and conceived that 
 he was, under these circumstances of temporary arrangement (and which was entangling to 
 the accounts and troublesome to the agent to follow out) entitled to the fees on the standing 
 rent of the tenant. However, as this practice, althougli not unusual, may admit of even a 
 (juestion, the minister, acting as agent, has restored the amount of £10 so retained by 
 him to the Institution by debiting liimself therewith in his current account; and it is to be 
 observed that there appears to be but the one casc^ of this naturi- in the books. 
 
 That it appears by the books of tlie trustees of that date, that the two legacies referred 
 to, with interest, formed the fund of £450 stock; and that the trustees of those times did, 
 from time to time, sell out, when the occasions of the school required, and applied same to 
 the purposes of the school — the number of the scholars being at or about that period 
 occasionally so many as fifty. 
 
 All which we submit as our Report, this 30th day of April, 1856. 
 
 (Signed), Hknuy Pakenham. 
 
 John West.
 
 DOCUMENTS. : 329 
 
 No. XVI. Blue Coat IIosi'Ital, Dublin. — Coruespondence respecting the Audit oi' lilue Cmii ifunpitnl. 
 Accounts by the Audit Board in Londox. Dublin. 
 
 1. Coi'v of Letter from Secretary of the Commission to Secretary of the Audit Office. Con-pspondtnpc rp- 
 
 specting tlic Audit 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) CommiHsion, of the Accounts by ; 
 
 Sn IT /• ii \t in ,r,-r- the Audi! liiiurdiii 
 
 IK, Dllldiii ( astJo, May 19, I80O. London. 
 
 I am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for Imjuiriiig into Endowed Schools in 
 Ireland, to bring the subject of the Accounts of the Governors of tlio Hospital and Free 
 Scliool of King Cliarles II., at Oxniantown, Dublin, commonly called tlie Blue Coat Hos- 
 pital, under the consideration of the Commissioners for Auditing J'liblic Accounts. 
 
 It is provided by Statute 3rd and 4t!i Victoria, chap. 108, "that the accounts of 
 tlie receipts and e.\])en(liture * * of the Governors of the Hospital and i'^ree 
 
 School of King t'liarles 1 1., Dublin, sliall, from and after the passing of this Act, l)e referred 
 by the Secretary of State to the Commissioners appointed, or to be ap[)ointed, for Auditing 
 Public Accounts, under Statute 25ih George III., cliap. 52, 45th George III., chap. 141, 
 and 1st and 2nd George IV., chap. 121." 
 
 It a])pears from evidence taken by the Commissioners at one of their public courts, 
 with respect to this school, tliat under the provision referred to, certain accounts from the 
 year 1840 to 1851 were furnisiied to your Board by the Governors of the Hospital, and it 
 a[)pears that the accounts have not been returned, or any certificate of audit given. 
 
 It also appears that the Governors of the Hospital have not, since 1851, sent, or been 
 required to send, their accounts for auditing. 
 
 Cnder these circumstances I am directed by the Commissioners to inquire at what ! 
 
 time the Accounts of the Governors of tlie Hospital for each year were forwarded to your 
 Board, and wliether any accounts have been required by your Board to be furnished by 
 the Governors, since 1851, which have not been sent, and whether the accounts furnished, 
 or any of them, have been found unsatisfactory, and if so, whether any explanations have 
 been applied for and not furnished by them. 
 
 I liave the lionour to be, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 (Signed) W. Neilson Hancock, Secretary. 
 
 C. Z. Macaulay, Esq., Secretary to the Commissioners for Auditing Public Accounts, 
 
 Somerset House, London. 
 
 2. Copy of Letter from Secretary of Audit Office, London, to Secretary of the 
 
 Commission. 
 
 Sir, Audit Office. Somerset House, London, September 1, 1850. 
 
 With reference to your letter of the 19th May last, I am directed by the Commissioners 
 for Auditing the Public Accounts to express their regret at the delay which, from some 
 inadvertency, has occurred in replying to it. 
 
 I am to observe that certain of the accounts adverted to in your letter were received 
 at this office. 
 
 I am also to state that certain questions having been referred to the Law Officers of 
 the Crown, difficulties were found to exist as to a satisfactory' audit of the Municipal (Cor- 
 poration Accounts, Ireland, which, together with the accounts of the Governors of the 
 Free Sciiool, were to be rendered to this office, under the 3rd and 4th Victoria, cap. 108. 
 
 The subject was subsequently brought under the notice of the Lords of the Treasury, 
 witli a view to its being determined whether the accounts to be rendered, under the 3rd 
 and 4th Vic, cap. 108, should continue to be audited by this Board; but the Commissioners 
 have not received any instructions from tlieir I,ordships on the subject. 
 
 I have the honour to be, Sir, your obedient servant. 
 
 (Signed) C. Macaulay, Secretary. 
 
 W. N. Hancock, Esq., Secretary, 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, Dublin Castle. 
 
 3. Copy of Letter of the Secretary of the Commission to the Secretary of the Treasury. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Sir, Dublin Castle, October IT, 1856. 
 
 1 am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for Inquiring into Endowed Schools in 
 Ireland, to state, for the informatioii of the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's 
 Treasury, some facts respecting the Audit of the Accounts of the Governors of the Hos- 
 pital and Fi-ee School of King Charles II., at Oxmantowu, Dublin, commonly called the 
 J>lue Coat llo.spital. 
 
 It is provided by Statute 3rd and 4tli Victoria, chap. 108, sec. 213, "that the accounts 
 of the receipts and expenditure * * of the Governors of the Hospital and 
 Free School of King Cliarles II., Dublin, shall, from and after the passing of this Act, be 
 referred by the Secretary of State to the Commissioners ajipointed, or to be appointed, 
 for Auditing Public Accounts, under Statute 25th George III., chap. 52, 4(ith George III. 
 chap. 141, and 1st and 2nd George IV., chap. 121." 
 
 \iy the 214th section of the same Act, it is provided "'that it shall be lawful for the 
 < 'Oinmissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury * * by warrant * * to 
 
 Uirect such new arrangements in the office of the said Commissioners for Auditing Public 
 Accounts, and to assign to the Commissioners, individually or collectively, the exercise of 
 
 Vol, II. ■ 2 U
 
 330 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMIi^SION. 
 
 nine Coat Jlofpitnl, 
 .Dublin. 
 
 Correspondence re- 
 fpecting the Audit 
 of the Accounts by 
 the Audit Board iu 
 lAjndoa. 
 
 such duties, or to make such orders and regulations in respect to the conduct of the busi- 
 ness of the office, as the said Commissioners of Her Ma,jcsty's Treasury sliall deem expe- 
 dient and best calculated to insure the most prompt and speedy examination and efficient 
 audit of the accounts referred to in the preceding section. 
 
 It appears from evidence taken by the Commissioners at one of their public courts, 
 with respect to tliis school, that under the provisions referred to, certain accounts from 
 the year 1846 to 1851 were furnished to the Commissioners for Auditing Public Accounts 
 by the Governors of the Blue Coat Hospital, and it appears that the accounts have not 
 been returned, nor any certificate of audit given. 
 
 It also appears that the Governors of the Hospital have not, since 1851, sent, or been 
 required to send, their accounts for auditing. 
 
 A communication was addressed to the Audit Commissioners bringing the matter 
 above mentioned under their consideration, to wlncli a reply has been received, stating 
 " that certain questions having been referred to the Law OtEcers of the Crown, difficulties 
 were found to exist as to a satisfactory Audit of tlie Municijjal Corporation Accounts, 
 Ireland, which, together with the Accounts of the Governors of the Free Schools, were 
 to be rendered to the Audit Office, under the 3rd and 4th Victoria, chap. 108. The subject 
 was subsequently brought under the notice of the Lords of the Treasury, with a view to 
 its being determined whether the accounts to be rendered under the ord and4tb Victoria, 
 chap. 1 08, shoidd continue to be audited by this Board ; but the Commissioners have not 
 received any instructions from tlieir Lordships on the subject.'' 
 
 Under these circumstances, 1 am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners to state 
 that tliey have felt it to be their duty to bring at once under the notice of the Lords 
 Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury the state of the Audit of the Accounts of the 
 Free School of King Charles II., as their Lordships have been mentioned iu the letter 
 from the Audit Office, and as the evidence on the subject will appear in connexion with the 
 Report which the Commissioners will present to Her Majesty. 
 
 I have the honour to be, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 Sir C. E. Trovelyan, k.c.b., (^Signed) VV. Neilson Hancock, Secretai'y. 
 
 Treasury, London. 
 
 4. Copy of Letteu from the Secretauy of the Treasury to the Commissioners. 
 
 My Lord and Gentlemen, Treasury Chambers, 5th November, I85f>. 
 
 With reference to Mr. Hancock's letter of 17th ult., I am commanded by the Lords 
 Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury to acquaint you that the subject of the audit of 
 the accounts of the Municipal Corporations, and of certain Endowed Schools in Ireland, 
 appears to have been taken into consideration by Her Majesty's Government in 1846 ; 
 when so much difficulty was found to exist in establishing an efficient system of audit by 
 the Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts, as contemplated by the Act 3rd & 4th 
 Vict., c, 108, that further proceedings on the subject were then dropped. 
 
 I am to transmit to you a copy of the Report of the Commissioners of Audit, of tlie 27th 
 February, 1846, from which yon will iearn the nature of those ditliculties, and to observo 
 that it may properly form a subject for your consideration wliat remedial measures can be 
 adopted in the case of the Endowed Scliools, for the purpose of insuring an efficient 
 examination of their accounts. 
 
 I am, my Lord and Gentlemen, your obedient servant, 
 The Commissioners for Inquiring into (Signed) C. E. Trevelyan. 
 
 Endowed Schools, Ireland. 
 
 5. Copy of Report of Audit Com.missioners to the Treasury. — (Enclosed in preceding). 
 
 My Lords, Audit Office, 27th February, 1846. 
 
 We have had the honour of representing to your Lordships, on several occasions,* the 
 im])edimcnts wo have met witli in tlio performance of tlie duties wbicli devolved upon us 
 under the provisions of the Act for the Regulation of Municipal Corporations in Ireland, 
 3rd & 4th Vict., c. 108, s. 213. 
 
 We regret to state that these difhcultics have by no means diminislied, but that, on the 
 contrary, the arrcar in the examination of the accounts of these corporations is, from cir- 
 cumstances over which we have no control, greatly increasing upon us. The Act was 
 passed in 1840; and out of tlie sixty-nine annual accounts which it was at first suppo.sed 
 the Irish municipal bodies would liave to render, two only have, as yet, been audited by 
 us, and stated to your Lordsliips. 
 
 In August, 1843, seven of these accounts wore referred to us, by the Secretary of State, 
 for examination ; 1)ut not being accompanied by vouclicrs, and being found upon inspection 
 to be defective in otlicr respects, the accounts were returned to tlie Secretary of State, 
 and our j)rocccdings were, for a consideralila time dchiyed. Tliese defects, however, 
 being subsequently in part remedied, and your Lordslii[)S liaving provided us with two 
 clerks for this service, in accordance witli tlie request contained in our Report of flth July, 
 1844, the examination was proceeded with, and we beg leave now to report the progress 
 wc have made — 
 
 • 4tli November, 1811, No. .020; !)th M.irob, lR12, 122; 8tli AuKUit, 1842, 407; 2Uth November, 1842, 6G8 ; 
 2Sth August, 1843, 3i)!»; 5th .Janunry, 1844, 7; 18th M:irch, 1814, liy.
 
 on. 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 331 
 
 Athloiic — One year, to 1st September, 1842; Youglial — One year, to 5th March, 1813. ■'''''c Coai liospUal, 
 
 Accounts audited iuul stated. Vuhlin. 
 
 Colcraine — One year, to .'jlst August, 1842 ; one year, to 31st August, 1843. Vouchers Con-cspondence ro- 
 
 obtained m April, 1S45. Queries sent to tlie Treasurer hi June, 1845: 1 to 186 not yet spectiug the Audit 
 „_„,..„..„,! of tlie Accounts bv 
 
 answered. ^^ , ^ ^^ , the Audit Board iu 
 
 Cork — 1st November, 1841, to 3Lst August, 1842. Vouchers received in July, 1844, Lond 
 with a reqiu'st tliat tlioy might bo returned. Queries sent in .January, 184.5; and the 
 Board's decision upon tlic accountants' answers in .July, 18)5, but not yet replied to. 
 
 Dublin — 1st A]iril, 1842, to "iSth February, 184:j. Vouchers transmitted under a pro- 
 test, by order of the Corporation. Queries sent in January, 1845 ; answered in December 
 following. The documents returned are numerous and bulky, and will require a consider- 
 able time to e.vamine. 
 
 Limerick — 3rd October, 1842, to 1st March, 1843. Vouchers transmitted in March, 
 1844, but in consequence of the account being made up under lieads of service, it could 
 not be conveniently o.xariiincd with the vouchers. The treasurer having, however, pro- 
 posed sending a transcript of his cash account, that account lias been examined with the 
 vouchers; queries upon it have been sent and answered; but the decisions of the Hoard 
 remain unanswered. The accountant expects that the authorities and vouchers may be 
 returned to him. 
 
 I'hiniskillen — 1st November, 1811, to 1st November, 1842. No proceedings upon this 
 account. Four applications have been made for the vouclicrs, but they have not been 
 transmitted to us. 
 
 Abstracts of these seven accounts have been laid before the House of Commons, and 
 printed by the order of the House, dated 18th August, 1843; the original accounts and 
 vouchers, including that of Enniskillen, having been previously examined, approved, and 
 certified by the Borough auditors, and, as we apprehend, printed for tljc use of the burgesses. 
 We have only to add, that since the examination of the vouchers of this set of accounts 
 was completed, in February, 1845, the two clerks allotted to us by your Lordships for this 
 particular service, have been employed upon otiier business, as mentioned incidentally in 
 our lieport of 23rd December last. No. 593, there being at that time no other Irish municipal 
 accounts before us to place in their hands. 
 
 We now come to the accounts of those Corporations upon which there have been no 
 proceedings in this office. 
 
 By a coiiiiiiunication made to us by j\Ir. Trevclyan's letter of 2nd April, 1845 (5637V), 
 it appears that out of the sixty-nine borouglis before alluded to, twenty-two* have no 
 corporate property ; so that the original number is reduced to forty-seven. Of these forty- 
 seven, twenty-three accounts of thirteen boroughst have been referred to us by Mr. Manners 
 Sutton's letter of 24th January, 1S46, without vouchers. Abstracts of these twenty-three 
 accounts, examined and approved by the local auditors in a similar manner to those first 
 mentioned, were laid before the House of Commons, and printed by order of the House, 
 dated 11th June lb-15. Abstracts of the accounts of twenty;]; other boroughs were laid 
 before the House, and printed at the same time ; but these twenty accounts have not been 
 forwarded to this office. 
 
 I'Vom this it appears that out of forty-seven boroughs, including King Charles's Ilosjjital, 
 the accounts of eighteen only§ liave, as yet, been referred to this office for examination. 
 Out of the remaining twenty-nine boroughs, the accounts of sixteen have been printed by 
 order of the House of Commons, from which it is inferred that thirteen boroughs|| have 
 never rendered any accounts. 
 
 It is almost needless for us to add that the want of regularity in the transmission of the 
 accounts, the influx of twenty-three accounts at one time without vouchers, and the 
 uncertainty as to the period when the further deliveries may be made, are not only 
 extremely embarrassing to this Office, but any advantage arising from an early examination 
 of the accounts — especially where the borough officers are elected annually — is rendered 
 almost nugatory. 
 
 We shall, nevertheless, proceed to examine the twenty-three accounts now before us, 
 when we shall have obtained the means of doing so ; the first step towards which will be 
 the delivery of the vouchers. 
 
 It appears to us, however, very undesirable that we should ourselves open a cori'es- 
 pondence with all those boroughs, the issue of which, from the partial experience we have 
 already had in this respect, is more than doubtful ; the more especially with reference to 
 the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown in Ireland, upon certain questions respecting 
 these accounts submitted to them in 1842, which are as follows : — 1st. How are the accounts 
 required, by the 213th Section, to come to the Secret.ary of State for the purpose of being 
 referred by him to the Audit Commissioners pursuant to said 213th Section ; are they to be 
 
 * Twenty-two boroughs — Ardco, BaUinjil.isi;. Royle, C.irlow, C.irlingford, C.istleiuaxtvr, Cavaii, Cli;irlcniont, 
 IVmgle, Dulock, KiniisccMtliy, Goroy, llillsborougli, Innistiogiie, Kilbeggan, Kildare, KUlyleagh, Kilm:illock, 
 I.iUbril, Midlfton, Xiuus, Mavau. 
 
 t Tliirtcon boroughs—Aruiagh, Atliy, Belturbet, Bclfa.st, Cork, Drogheda, Dublin, Kells, Kinsale, Limerick, 
 Sligo, Strabanc, Wicklow. 
 
 J Twenty boronghs— .\tldonc, Bandon, Callan, Cashcl, Clonakilty, Clonnicl, Coleraine, Dundalk, Ennis, 
 Knniskillen, Fetliard (Tipperavy), l.,onuouderry, Clonfert, Mouaghau, Kewtownai-ds, Tralce, Trim, Watcrford, 
 Wexford, Youglial. 
 
 § Eighteen boroughs — Armagh, Athlone, Atliy, Belfast, Belturbet, Colcraine, Cork, Drogheda, Dublin, EnaiS' 
 killen, Kells, Kinsale, Limerick, SUgo, Strabanc, Wioklow, Voughal, King Charles's Hospital. 
 
 II Tliirtccn boroughs— ArJfcrt, Atheiiry, Bangor, Carrickfergu3, Chai'lcviUe, JJiuigaunon, Galway, Bjlkenny, 
 Maryliorongh, New Koss, Portarlingtoa, Thomastoivn, Tuam. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 U 2
 
 332 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Blue Coat Hospital, 
 Dublin. 
 
 Correspondence re- 
 spectinfj the Audit 
 of the Accounts by 
 the Audit Caird in 
 Luuilou. 
 
 transmitted to the Secretary of State by the Lord Lieutenant, or by tlie governing 
 body of the borough, and if by such governing body, how is such transmission to be 
 enforced ? 
 
 Answer — The accounts audited by the Borough Auditors are to be transmitted, with 
 all proper vouchers to the Lord Lieutenant, who is empowered to make all necessary 
 orders for that purpose ; those accounts are to be transmitted by tlie Lord Lieutenant to 
 tlic Secretary of State, to be by him referred to the Audit Connnissionors. 
 
 2nd. In the absence of any statutable direction for supplying the Audit Commissioners 
 with vouchers for tlie accounts to be referred to them, how are such voucliers to be pro- 
 cured, and if not procurable, how are such Borough Accounts to be audited by such Audit 
 Commissioners ? 
 
 Answer. — Under the 13Tth Section, the Lord Lieutenant is authorized to direct the 
 accounts to be prepared in such manner as he shall think proper ; and we think that this 
 authority should be exercised by directing the accounts to be furnished with proper 
 vouchers. 
 
 LTnder the sanction of those opinions, we apprehend that the proper course would be 
 that the voucliers should be called for by his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, and trans- 
 mitted by his Excellency to the Secretary of State, and on their being thence forwarded 
 to this office, we shall make the best arrangements in our power for the early examination 
 of them. 
 
 AVe have received a letter from JMr. ^Manners Sutton, dated 7th February, 184C, trans- 
 mitting an account of the Free School of King Charles II., accompanied by vouchers, for 
 five years — namely, from 2Sth September, 1839, to 28th September, 1844 : also an account 
 of the Treasurer of Dublin, for the year ended 31st August, 1845, the vouchers for which 
 the Treasurer has expressed his readiness to transmit when called for. 
 
 It is not, however, to be exjiected that the best examination which we can give to 
 these accounts, as a check upon the revenue and income of tlie several corporations in 
 question, can be of equal efficiency and value to tJiat of resident auditors, to whom the 
 different sources of borough property, whether arising from rents, rates, duties, tolls, 
 &c., are most probably familiar ; the only extent to which our examination can be carried, 
 is to see that every payment is duly authorized by the members of the corporation, and 
 properly vouched, and that the accounts are arithmetically correct, and we are persuaded 
 that the effect of this limited examination must necessarily fall short of that derived from 
 the annual examination which the accounts undergo on the spot, and from the publicity 
 given to them by their being printed for the use of the ratepayers immediately after they 
 have been examined and passed by the Borough Auditors chosen by the ratepayers, who 
 are the parties most interested in the subject. We may add that as we liave no authority to 
 compel the delivery of these accounts (which are not accounts of public money) to enforce 
 surcharges, to prosecute defaulters, or to recover balances, it is our decided opinion 
 that the benefits which might have been anticipated frum a second audit of these accounts 
 in this office can never be adequate to the labour required and to the expense thus imposed 
 upon the public. 
 
 We arc unwilling to conclude this Report witliout observing to your Lordships that 
 the corporations of the thirteen boroughs, who appear to have withheld their accounts, 
 escape altogether from the trouble, expense, and responsibility, which attaches to those 
 corporations who submit their accounts to a second audit, and endeavour to carry out the 
 intentions of the Legislature. 
 
 Under these circumstances Ave again take the opportunity of pressing upon your 
 Lordships a reconsideration of the question as to the propriety of the accounts of any of 
 the corporations being sent to this office for examination. If, however, on this point your 
 Lordships and Her Majesty's (iovernnient have finally decided to make no change, and if 
 it is not intended to put the Irish corporations in tliis respect on the same footing as the 
 English, we must then earnestly submit to your Lordships how necessary it becomes that 
 some steps sliould be taken with a view of insuring the regular transmission to this office, 
 by Her Majesty's Secretary of State, of the accounts, together with the vouchers, imme- 
 diately after the period when the annual accounts are terminated, and become due. 
 
 Without this regularity it will be impossible for us to perform our duty with satisfivction 
 to ourselves or advantage to the public. 
 
 We have only further to add, that in the event of our receiving, through ller ^Majesty's 
 Secretary of State, the vouchers having reference to the statements of accounts already 
 delivered, as noticed in tlie margin;* and in the event of its being determined that the 
 accounts of this service shall continue for the future to be audited by us, we sliall then be 
 prepared at once to ap])Iy to your Lordships for such a permanent assistance as may be 
 reijuired for the purpose. 
 
 \Vo have the lionour to be, My L(n-ds. yimr Lord.ships' most obedient, humble servants, 
 
 (Signed) W. L. IIi;i!itii:s. 
 
 11. F. LUTTRKLI.. 
 
 Henry Akuutiinot. 
 Tlie Lords Commissioners Kdwaud Ro.milly. 
 
 of Her Majesty's Treasury, iV:c., &c. A. Ghant. 
 
 * List of the statements of accounts for wliicli no vouchers luve been delivorcil :— Arniauh, 1842-;)-J ; Athy, 
 1842-3-4; IJelturhct, 1843-4; Belfast, I84ri-4; Cork, IH43-4 ; Drogheda, 1842-3-4 ; Dublin. 1B43-4 ; KellK, 
 184l)-l-2-.l-4; Kinsalc, 1840-1-2-3-1; Limerick, lB4:3-4-.); Sligo, 1B43-4 ; Strubane, 1840-1-2-3-4; Wickiow, 
 IH41-2-3 4; Enni.fkillen, 1M4I-2.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 333 
 
 No. XVII. Suggestions ON Education. Sui/i/entionn nn 
 
 Copy of Letteu from Rev. H. V. Dixon, Rector of Clof^liorny, formorly Fellow and Erasmus ' . 
 
 Smith Prufessor of A'^aturiil and Experimental I'hilosophy, and Tutor in tlu; Ihiiversity of I!tv. It. V. Dixon. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Cloglicrny Rectory, Omagh, Fobrnary l.'3th, 1857- 
 
 Sm, — When the Endowed Schools Commissioners visited (Jmagh, 1 had tlu' honour of 
 appearing before them as a member of a deputation aj)pointed by tlie inhal)itants of that 
 town and its vicinitv to bring under their notice the educational wants of this neighbour- 
 hood. The limited time at the disposal of the Commissioners, bowc^ver, prevented their 
 examining me on that occasion ; but one of the Commissioners informed me afterwards, 
 tliat they would receive in writing any commtniication I ir.iglit desire to mnke in reference 
 to the particular circumstances of this locality, or generally respecting the state of educa- 
 tion in Ireland. I accordingly take the liberty of submitting the following remarks and 
 suggestions for their consideration. 
 
 The most striking deficiency in the means of education in Ireland, is utiquestionably 
 exhibited in the want of schools fitted for the instruction of those young persons who are 
 intended to fill situations in tlu; various branches of the civil service, or to i'ollow commercial, 
 manufacturing, or agricultural ])ursuits. The education of the labouring classes is anijdy 
 provided for by the National system, and the Itoyal and other Endowed schools, with 
 several private establishments, supply the means of education for young persons destined 
 for the learned professions in all the great towns, and in several other localities ; but 
 schools competent to give a liberal education, suited to the wants of the class above 
 referred to, are, generally speaking, unknown in the country. 
 
 1. One reason for this, no doul)t. is, that hitherto the demand for such education has 
 been extremely limited. All situations in the patronage of Government, or of the heads 
 of civil departments, have hitherto been granted to interest and not to merit, or if to merit, 
 no educational test has been .systematically applied or recognized, and accordingly candi- 
 dates have had no encouragement to qualify themselves as candidates for the efficient ^ 
 discharge of official duties. 
 
 2. Again, the application of scientific principles to manufactures and agriculture is of 
 comparatively recent date, and is, in many instances, even now. only making its way from 
 the laboratory and study of the physicist to the factory and the farm. The knowledge of such 
 principles, therefore, is hardly regai-ded as yet as an element of general education ; and 
 yet without a preliminary acquaintance with them, their practical applications w^ill be but 
 very im])erfectly understood, in many cases, by the manufacturer and the farmer. 
 
 3. Further, as a system of education, which includes instruction in tlie classical languages, 
 is, no doubt, the most complete and liberal, the distinctive portion of such a system has 
 come in time to be regarded as the really important part of it, and all others appear 
 secondary or unimportant. The teachers, of course, share the fortunes of the subjects in 
 which they give instruction ; and hence, in most classical schools, the English masters, the 
 teachers of modern languages, and the lecturers in experimental science, hold a very 
 subordinate antl inferior position. Every young man, therefore, of ability and energy seeks 
 to qualify himself for the post of classical teacher, and leaves to those of less ability and 
 less energy the less esteemed offices. 
 
 But besides this universal deficiency in Ireland as regards what, for want of a better 
 term, we must call English schools, there are many districts where classical schools also are 
 needed. Large towns like Dublin, Belfast, Cork, and Limerick, will always command a 
 supply of classical teachers, more or less competent ; but there are many important towns, 
 chiefly in the inland parts of Ireland, which have lately risen, or are only now rising to 
 importance, and which were of no note when the present Endowed Schools were founded, 
 that are cither totally destitute of the means of classical instruction, or are very indiflerently 
 provided with thorn. Omagh is a town of this class, and may be selected as an illustration. 
 Situated in the midst of an improving country, and acquiring every year increased facilities 
 of communication with great markets of this and the sister country, its market and its 
 trade are rapidly incrca.sing. As the county town, it is necessarily the residence of several 
 professional men and county officers, some of whom will, no doubt, always be anxious to 
 procure the means of preparing their children for the learned professions : and as a thriving 
 place of business, there Avill be always some of the more successful traders and merchants 
 desirous of obtaining the same advantages for their children. There will be always, 
 therefore, a demand in the town for classical instruction. This demand, however, will be 
 variable in its amount, for reasons easily conceived : at one time sufficient perhaps to 
 command the services of a competent teacher, then falling oil', and afterwards increasing 
 again. Hence the great need for an endowment in such districts to act as a fly-wheel, and 
 carry the educational machine past the dead points. There will be a steadier demand 
 both in the town and its neighbourhood for Enghsh education ; but the standard of such 
 education being at present very low, the remuneration ottered for it is very low too, and 
 quite insufficient to induce a competent person to establish a school in the district capable 
 of giving a liberal ICnglish education suited to the requirements of the age. 
 
 In Omagh, therefore, and towns similarly circumstanced, the inhabitants are placed under 
 very serious disadvantages in regard to the education of their children ; and as there is 
 no condition more influential in determining the material prosperity of a nation than the 
 intelligence of its middle classes, there can be no subject of more practical importance 
 brought under the notice of a government than the best means of supplying such 
 deficiencies as we have been considering in the means of education. 
 
 The following suggestions, which I take the liberty of ofiering for the consideration of
 
 334 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Suggestions on 
 Education. 
 
 IIov. R. V. Dkon. 
 
 the Commissioners on tliis subject, may be conveniently classed under two Leads, — the first, 
 referring to the nature and extent of the education required for the middle classes of the 
 community ; the second, to the apparatus for convening it. 
 
 1 . As regards the classical clement of such education, this, both in its nature and extent, 
 will be always determined by the course prescribed for students in the universities ; and 
 it accordingly appears iinnecessary to enter into any details respecting it here. 
 
 The "Modern" or '•English" element is, however, difi'erently circumstanced from the 
 former in tliis respect, that is generally final and not preparatory. AVhen the English 
 etudent leaves school his education is supposed to be completed, and he passes at once 
 to the office, the counting-house, the shop, the factory, or the farm. The character of the 
 "English'' course, then, in schools cannot be determined by reference to the cour.'^^e in 
 more advanced academies or colleges, but, as in the latter, should be decided by the 
 actual requirements of the students in afterlife. It is, however, practically decided by a 
 very different standard — namely, the lowest qualifications actually required of candidates 
 for admission into different oHices, &c. The competitive examinations for public appoint- 
 ments cannot fail to raise the standard of English education ; but their influence is only 
 beginning to be felt, and the qualifications requii-ed in young men admitted to junior 
 clerkships, and apprenticed to trades, &c., are so variable, and in most cases so low, that 
 the standard of education derived from them is miserably deficient. Moreover, as these 
 qualifications refer merely to the immediate business or occupation in which the young 
 man is engaged, an education limited by them makes no provision for fitting a man to 
 discliarge those more general duties incumbent on him as a member of society and the State. 
 Tlie standard of English education, therefore, requires to be raised. Were this doue 
 systematically and generally, there seems little reason to doubt that higher qualifications 
 would speedily bo ex])ected from candidates for oflices, &c., and that students would be 
 thus compelled to avail themselves of the greater advantages placed within their reach. 
 
 I proceed now to consider, more particularly, the subjects which should be taught in a 
 school professing to afford the means of acquiring a liberal " English " education. These, 
 subjects may be enumerated as follows : — 
 
 1. Englisli language and literature.. Under this head may be included the analysis of 
 language, as an instrument of reasoning, and the principles of logic. 
 
 2. The more important modern languages, especially French and German. 
 
 3. The abstract sciences, geometry, algebra, and arithmetic, with their applications. 
 
 4. The pliysical sciences, with their application. 
 
 5. Geograjihy. 
 
 6. The principles of morality. 
 
 7. History, and in connexion with it, the principles of political economy. 
 
 The extent to which the study of these subjects should be pursued by the pupils should 
 depend on the professions or callings for which they are intended. Every puj^il seeking 
 a liberal education ought to pcsscss an elementary knowledge of all of them practically ; 
 however, limits would be set by various other considerations, of which the pupils' capacities, 
 and the time at their command, would bo the principal. 
 
 1. Thus, as regards the first subject enumerated above, every pupil should be so far 
 instructed in the Englisli language as to be able to speak and write it with grammatical 
 accuracy ; lie ought also be able to analyze a sentence, and point out the logical relation 
 of its parts, and understand the connexion of propositions in a train of reasoning. In 
 other words, he should be acquainted with the principles of gramnuu- and of logic. This 
 latter terra may suggest the idea of something too recondite for the general class of 
 students ; but that the kind of knowledge implied by it is not beyond the attainment of 
 minds of ordinary capacity, will be evident to any person who examines the grammars used 
 in good schools in France, and the Arcid>i.shop of Dublin's " Easy Lessons on Kcosoning." 
 
 The extent to wliich the study of I'^nglish literature should be pursued by the pupil niu.st 
 depend on the profession he intends to follow; but it is needless to observe that if his 
 time allows it, he should not leave school without having acquired some knowledge of the 
 works of the principal English authors. 
 
 2. The study of the modern languages, more than any of the other subjects enumerated 
 above, will be determined by the intended profession of the pupil. As tlic knowledge of 
 French or German, or both, will be necessary, however, in many cases, jji-ovision must be 
 made for their being thoroughly and well taught in a school of the kind we are considering. 
 
 3. As to tho abstract sciences, every pupil should be actpiainted with the priiuijiles of 
 geometry and algebra, and should be familiar with the principal aritbt^ictical operations, 
 and their aiiplications to commercial details of ordinary occurrence. 
 
 Pupils intended for commercial pursuits will, however, require to follow this latter 
 subject farther, and to be familiar with the more advanced parts of commercial arithmetic, 
 and the tiieory and practice of book-keeping; while those intended for occujiations of a 
 more scientific character will follow geometry into its practical applications to mensuration, 
 mechanics, &c. 
 
 4. Fn the same way no education can now bo considered complete which does not 
 communicate the loading principles of those physical sciences whose practical applications 
 are so numerous and so im]>ortant, while an opijortunity should be afforded to students to 
 acquire more advanced inlbrniation in tiiose ilopartments likely to be of most service to 
 thorn in afterlife. The amount of infoi-malion then conveyed should be at lea.st such as 
 would enable them to road with intelligence worlds relative to tho.sc branches of the arts 
 and manufactures in which they are more particularly interested, and to judge of tho 
 probable value of suggestions offered for their improvement.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 335 
 
 5. It iR unnecessary to dwell on the necessity of a knowledge of geography. It may be SnijyeiiHonii rm 
 observed, however, tliat it would be desirable to include under tliiH bead some information Education. 
 as to the natural and artificial productions of different countries, and also as to their most jjgy r, v. Dixon. 
 striking geological characteristics, This would necessitate some reference to the elements 
 
 of natural history and geology. 
 
 6. It is still less necessary to enforce the importance of an acquaintance with the prin- 
 ciples of morality, those principles wbicli sliould regulate tlic conduct of man as a 
 rational, intelligent, and r('Si)onsil)le being, as well in his individual ca])acity as in his various 
 social relations. Here, however, wo are brought in contact with the great difliculty of 
 state education. Although all Christian sects agree in the leading principles of morality, 
 yet they differ widely in their o])inions as to the connexion of morality with religion. 
 They differ, therefore, as to the sanctions by which obedience to the precepts of morality 
 fijiould be enforced, and as to the means by whicli Divine help to render tiiat obedience 
 sliould be sought. In some instances, also, some of the peculiar religious doctrines of 
 different sects require to be ('X]i]airied, in order that they may be shown not to he incon- 
 sistent with acknowledged principles of morality ; hence the difficulty of giving limited 
 instruction even in the generally recognized principles of moral duties ; and there is no 
 more lamentable consequence, in a social point of view, of our religious differences, than 
 that they prevent the rising generation being taught in common their common duties. I 
 will return to this subject when speaking of the means of communicating the education we 
 are considering. 
 
 7- As regards history, the course for all students should include,, it is suggested, the 
 leading facts connected with those events which have been most intimately connected v/ith 
 the progress of constitutional liberty in our own empire — of the material prosperity of the 
 people, and of their commercial greatness. In connexion with this subject, also, instruction 
 should be given in the principles which regulate the production of wealth, and in the 
 leading facts connected with the system of laws under which we live. The amount of 
 useful elementary information whicli may be given on these latter subjects, in a form intel- 
 ligible to the most ordinary capacities, is exhibited in the Aixhbishop of Dublin's " Easy 
 Lessons on Money ilatters and the British Constitution." 
 
 Many, no doubt, will be startled at the preceding programme, and will be of opinion 
 that even an elementary knowledge of logic, ethics, political economy, law, the abstract 
 and phy.sical sciences, and history is unattainable by the generality of students, and, if 
 attainable, would be useless to them. If such persons, however, would reflect on the 
 duties imposed on members of the middle classes of society, they must admit the utility, 
 at least, of a knowledge of the preceding subjects. In common with all men, they require 
 a knowledge of the duties obligatory on them in the various relations of life ; but being 
 brought more in contact with their fellow-men in the way of business — in the market, in 
 the factory, and in the exchange — they require, more than others, to liave early impressed 
 on them sound principles of ethics. They appear more exposed, too, than cither the upper 
 or lower classes, to the design of religious fanatics, against which there is no surer safe- 
 guard than right views of morality. 
 
 Again, as employers, as merchants, as traders, as manufacturers, they are constantly 
 liable to be misled by unsound views of the principles which should regulate the transac- 
 tions in which they are concerned, and by the fallacious representations of ignorant or design- 
 ing adventurers, and consequently require a knowledge of the principles of political economy. 
 
 In the same way, without some acquaintance with the principles of right reasoning, they 
 are constantly exposed to danger, in these days of cheap literature and cheap newspapers, 
 from the efforts of political adventurers ; and since the State has extended so widely the 
 right of the franchise, it seems but prudent to secure, as far as possible, the intelligent 
 exercise of that right. 
 
 The utility of a knowledge of the physical sciences will probably be more generally 
 admitted, as it is concerned with more obvious and tangible results. But it must be borne 
 in mind, that progress in the arts is unattainable if the efforts of manufacturers are clogged 
 by unwise restrictions, and that both commerce and manufactures are checked by the pre- 
 valence of fanaticism or political agitation. 
 
 In fact, so long as men are exposed to the temptations of acting unfairly towards their 
 fellow-men and to the design of religions fanatics, so long they will require the guidance 
 and corrective influence of sound moral principles ; so long as they are liable to be misled 
 by narrow and short-sighted policy in matters of trade and commerce, so long they will 
 require to be taught sound principles of political economy ; and so long as they are liable 
 to be led astray, by sophistry and fallacy, in matters concerning their own or the public 
 welfare, in which they have a voice, so long they will stand in need of a knowledge of logic. 
 
 With respect to the possibility of communicating to students, during their scholastic 
 course, a respectable amount of elementary information on all the subjects enumerated 
 above, with a more advanced knowledge of those more immediately connected with their 
 destined profession or occupation, 1 apprehend that the chief difficulty would consist in 
 the want of good elementary works in some departments, and of competent teachers in 
 most. Tliis want, however, I conceive would be but temporary, and that the demand, if 
 once established, with liberal encouragement, would soon produce an adequate supply. 
 
 It must, however, be remarked that teachers of a much higher degree of proficiency 
 than is ordinarily considered sufficient would be required^first, because they would be 
 called upon to instruct such students as might require it in the more advanced branches 
 of their several departments ; and secondly, because in most of the subjects included in 
 the preceding programme the elementary principles can be well taught only by persons
 
 336 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 S»oiJt*stion6 On 
 J^ditcation. 
 
 Eer . R. V. Dixon. 
 
 thorouglily acquainted with the whole subject. This is particularly the case with the 
 physical sciences, in which an acquaintance with the more ordinary and striking phe- 
 nomena is often confounded with a knowledj^e of their elementary principles, while an 
 accurate explanation of the simplest phenomenon nut unfrequently requires a thorough 
 acquaintance with the whole range of the science. 
 
 Before concluding these suggestions as to tlic kind of education required for the middle 
 classc'S in this country, I may remark that, compared with total ignorance, such an amount 
 of knowledge of any of the subjects enumerated above as will inform a student of its object, 
 its terminology, and its leading principles, and the sources to which he should look for 
 further information, must be con.sidered most valuable ; while such an ac(juaintancc with 
 the subject as shall have rendered him familiar with its principles, and shall enable him to 
 read and consult with profit more advanced works, may bo regarded as suflicicnt for the 
 wants of the great ni.ajority of students. 
 
 II. I now proceed to offer some suggestions as to the apparatus for carrying out such a 
 system of education as I have above referred to. 
 
 1. And first, I consider an endowment to be absolutely necessary. The advantages of a 
 liberal education are not yet sufficiently appreciated by the members of the middle classes 
 to insure such an amount of individual support as would maintain an efficient staff of 
 teachers. This is particularly the case in agricultur.al districts ; traders, merchants, and 
 residents in towns generally, are more libei'al. But even among these the demand as yet 
 is too limited and too fluctuating to ensure the steady supply of competent teachers. For 
 the same reasons, I think the endowment should be provided from the National resources 
 (if existing endowments for educational principles are not available), and should not he 
 left dependent on local rates. Nothing can be more unpopular than a local tax for a 
 specific object, which, from its very nature, cannot benefit all equally. 1 am aware of the 
 objections frequently urged against endowments for educational purposes, from abuse and 
 want of success which have attended them in some instances. But these abuses and 
 failures may, without difficulty, be traced to other causes than the existence of an endow- 
 ment. The chief of these appears to be, want of judgment in the selection of principals, 
 want of supervision and control, and want of an efficient staff. 
 
 2. After the leading principles of the system and its more important details have been 
 arranged, I would suggest that the execution should be vested in one Commissioner or 
 Inspector-General ; a numerous commission would not fail to become an arena for party 
 discussions, and would really be less responsible to public opinion than an individual, and, 
 at the same time, would be less efficient in its action and less consistent in its decisions 
 than a single able and judicious head. 
 
 3. I would suggest that such Commissioner or Inspcctor-Genenal should be empowered 
 to obtain the assistance of competent persons to examine claimants for the posts of teachers 
 in the several departments, and that the reports of such examiners should be preserved and 
 registered. 
 
 4. On him, too, should devolve the duty of selecting the principals of the several 
 schools. It would be desirable tliat these should be scholars of reputation and character 
 in some of the departments of instruction, but, above all, that they should possess adminis- 
 trative ability ; as there are manv good scholars who are bad teachers, so there arc many 
 good teachers who are bad administrators. Under the management of such persons there 
 might be one well taught class, but a badly conducted and generally unsuccessful school. 
 On the sagacity of the Commissioner would depend the hap]\y choice of principals. Tlie 
 registry of candidates above referred to would inform him of their literary abilities; some 
 might be able to refer to past success as teachers, and a few, j)er]iaps, to their experience 
 as heads of educational institutions ; but he should mainly depend at first, at least, on his 
 own penetration and judgment of character for the selection of suitable principals. 
 
 5. To the principals, I would suggest, should be left the choice of their assistants. In 
 this choice, however, they should be limited to persons reported as competent by the 
 examiners, and approved of by the Commissioner. Being thus restricted in their choice, 
 tlie public would have an assurance that they would not apjjoiiit incompetent or otherwise 
 objectionable jiorsons ; while having their clioico, they might select those with whom they 
 would co-operate harmoniously in the working of tlio school. 
 
 6. It would, no <Ioubt, be found necessary to build schoolliouses in several localities; 
 but I would suggest that, at first, there should be no provision made in these for boarders. 
 If there were any demand for accommodation of this kind, beyond what the neigh- 
 bourliood would allbrd, some of the masters would, no doubt, find it their interest, and 
 miglit be encouraged, to su])ply it. 
 
 It will be i-emarked that 1 have' not made any suggestions relative to the religious 
 instruction of tlie pupils in the contenijjl.ated schools. In fact, united religious instruction 
 in this country being impracticable, I think it better for the State to intrust the religious 
 education of the young to the care of their jiarents. Termission might be granted to the 
 pupils of the several religious denominations to assemble in the school on one day in the 
 week and receive religions instruction from persons apj)ointed by tlieir ])arents, and jjaid 
 by them if necessary. Should it be found impracticable to introduce (>thics into the 
 general course, tliis subject should be similarly dealt with. I should strongly recommend, 
 however, that an eil'ort should be made to include it in the course of common instruction. 
 
 Apologizing for the length to which this connnunication has run, 
 
 I have the honour to remain. Sir, your obedient servant, 
 
 ToW. N. Hancock, Esq., ll.v. Kouekt V Dixon, a.m. 
 
 Secretary, Endowed Schools Commission.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 337 
 
 No. XVIII. Extracts riioji the Patent Roll of the Court of Chano;:ry, Tiielaxd, ExUmis from the 
 
 jii;i.ATixG to Tim Royal Schools. p.,trninnli,(:h<n^ery. 
 
 Ireland, rcluliiuj to 
 
 . 1. Letter I'roin King James I., directing Letters Patent to be passed for the Endowment of ""' '''"""' ^'■'""'^- 
 Free Schools in Ulster, and the maintenance of Masters. 
 
 (E.\tracted from tlie Patent Roll of the Court of Clianccry, Ireland, of the lltli year of the 
 
 Reign of James 1.) 
 James Rex. 
 
 By the Kinj^o, 
 
 Eight trust'.c and well beloved, We greet yon well, as upon the division of our late :io .January, 1012. 
 eschacted lands in Ulster, Wo did, out of our princely care and gracious inclination, assigno 
 certain proportions of those our Imds within several counties for the endowment of several 
 free schools and nuiiiitenanco of schoolmasters, for the cncrease of loarniiige and good 
 manners in those pts. whore tho same are so much wanting: so now for the final acting and 
 accomplishment of that our gratious purpose, tending to so good an end. We have consi- 
 dered of some fit means for the stating and improving of the said lands, to and for the uses 
 aforcsd. ; and to tliat end, wc have made choice of our archbishops and bishops within whose 
 several dioccs. those lands arc allotted, to be entrusted specially in that aifjir, as men to 
 whose function and qualitie it is most proper to be careful, and always assistant to the 
 furtherance and improvement of such good works. Thenthese are, therefore, to authorise 
 and command you, after receipt hereof, with the advice of some of our Counsel! learned in 
 the laws, to cause our cffeccnal grants to be made by one or more letters patents of all the 
 said lands, tents , and hcrcdits., allotted and laid out for the use aforesaid, by virtue of our 
 foi'uier directions given in that behalf unto tlio sever.il bishops nfiw for the time being, and 
 to their successors for ever, severally of so much of tlic said lands as are contained within 
 the bounds and limits of their several dioccs. and jurisdictions, tliereby enabling the said 
 several bishops and their successors, with the advice and consent of their several deans and 
 chapters, to sot and let the said lands within their several dioccs., from time to time, to such 
 fit persons and for such competent rents and reservations as they shall think fit for the best 
 use and. behoof of tlie several schoolmasters for the time being ; provided that the said 
 bishops .and their sneers., with tho advice and consent aforesd., never make any estate of any 
 tho said lands for longer term than for one and twenty years, nor for less rent than twelve 
 pounds ster., at the least, for every quarter — viz., four towns of balliboes to every quarter, 
 inserting also in the said grant, license and liberty to the said several bishops and their 
 successors, within their several dioces., to nominate some fit persons for the e.xcrcisc of the 
 said offices of schoolmasters, from time to time, when they shall be void by death or other 
 v,icancy ; and him or tliem so chosen to present or recommend to our Deputy, or other 
 Chief Governor of tiiat Kingdom for the time being, thit he may thereupon, according to 
 our gracious meaning, and as ot our gift and donation, grant letters patents of the said office 
 of scTiool master to the party so nominated and recommended, as aforesd., for term of his life, 
 or during good behaviour, as he shad think fitting ; inserting also in our said grants to bo 
 made to the said bishops ^nd their succrs., such other beneficial articles, clauses, and condi- 
 tions as in grants of the like nature aie usual and accustomed, or as you in your judgment 
 shall find to conduce with our gratious intention for the sure foundation and maintenance 
 of the said fice schools and scliiolmasters, to all posterities, and because we are informed 
 that as yet there are no fitting schoolhouses in those several places where schoolmasters are 
 to be appointed for the erudition of children by means of our aforesaid bounty, we do 
 hereby require and authorise you, our Deputy, with the advice of our Chancellor and 
 Primate of Ardmagh, for the time being, to take order that the rents of the said lands 
 allotted by our direction, as aforesaid, may be collected aisd received by such psons. you 
 shall think fitt, and that the same may be carefully and providently employed in the building 
 of several fitting schoolhouses of our foundation, in the several places where the same are 
 appointed to be erected ; and after the said schtolhouses shall Ije finished, then, and not 
 before, our will and pleasure is, that tho rents and profits of the said lands si. ail be bestowed 
 upon the schoolmasters to be ap])ointed, as aforesd. ; and these our h.-tters shall be as well 
 tu you, our De|.>uty and Chanc.llor then now being as to any other Deputy, Chief Justict', 
 Chancellor, or Keeper of the Great Scale of our said Realme that hereafter for the time 
 shall be, and to any other our officers and ministers there to whom it may appertaine. suffi- 
 cient Avarrant and discharirc in this behalf. Given under Signet at our Manor of Theo- 
 balds, the thii'ticth day of Janu.ary, in the eleventh yeare of our rcignc of England, 
 France, and Ireland, and of Scotland, the seven and fortieth. 
 
 To our right trustie and well-beloved the Lord Chichester, our 
 Deputy of our Realme of Ireland, and to our Chancellor 
 thei e now being, and to any other Deputy, Chief Justice, 
 Chancellor, or Keeper of the Great Seal of our said realme, 
 that hereatter for the time shall be, ,aud to any other our 
 officers and minister there to whom it may appertain. 
 
 Vol. II. ^ i
 
 338 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Extracts from the. 
 
 Patent /loll. Chancery, 
 
 Ireland, relating to 
 
 the Roifal Schools, 
 
 21 April. 1U1-; 
 
 2. Letter from King James I. directing Grants to Arciibishop of Armagh of Escheated 
 Lantls, to be distributed by him for Schools and Glebos. 
 
 (Extracted from the Patent Roll of the Court of Chancery, Ireland, of the 13th year of 
 
 the Reign of James 1.) 
 James Rex. 
 
 Eight trustie and well beloved, Wee greete you well ; 
 
 Whereas, Wee were pleased for the advancement of piety and learning in that kingdome 
 to bestowe, in the plantation of Ulster, certain of our escheated land there, for the main- 
 tenance of divers grammer schools, and to he glebes for the incumbents of the several 
 parishes within that province Wee now let you know that we have since made choice of 
 the most Revd. Father in God, the Archbishop of Armagh, to whose discretion we have 
 thought fitt to commit the distribution of the said lands, as well in regarde of his approved 
 fidelity, whereof we h^ive had long experience, as also in respect that Ihe ecclesiastical 
 jurisdiction of that province belong only to his charge, and therefore is best able to inform 
 himself of the most apte places wherein it is meet to have grammer schools established, and 
 what proportions of land are fit, according to the ability of the several churches there, to be 
 assigned for glebes unto them. According to this our gracious pleasure, we require you, by 
 the advice of our learned Councill, to convey sufficiently in law, by grant from us, all the 
 said lands assigned in the plantation of Ulster, ior the uses above specified, to the said Arch- 
 bishop of Armagh, that by him they may be distributed and allotted in forme of law 
 to the several schools and churches, as he shall think fit, according to our religious intention 
 signified hereby unto you ; and these, our letters, shall be to you and to any other whom it 
 may concern sufficient warrant and discharge in this behalfe. Given under our Signet, at 
 our Palace of Westmr., the one and twentieth day of April, in the thirteenth year of our 
 reigne of England, France, and Ireland, and of Scotland the eight and fortieth. 
 
 To our right trusty and right well-beloved the Lord, Chichester, 
 our Deputy of our Realm of Ireland, and to our Chanr. of 
 our said Realm now being, and to the Deputy or other Chief 
 Governor of that Realme, Chancellor, or Keeper of our 
 Great Seale there, tliat hereafter for the time being shall be, 
 and to any other whom it may appertaine, and to every of 
 them. 
 
 3. Letters Patent from King James I., founding Free School at Dungannon for county 
 
 Tyrone, and appointing a Schoolmaster. 
 
 (Extracted from the Patent Roll of the Court of Chancery, Ireland, of the ISth year of 
 
 the lieign of James I.) 
 
 13 May, icu. James, by the grace of God, King of England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, Defender 
 
 of the Faith, &c.. To all men to whom these presents shall come greeting. Know yee that 
 we for the great care we have of our subjects of this realme of Ireland, and for the good 
 education of the youth thereof in litci-ature and knowledge of true religion, to the end that 
 they may learn their duty towards God and true obedience towards us, have of our special 
 grace certain knowledge and mcer motion, and with the assent and advice of our right trusty 
 and well-beloved counsellor, Sir Arthur Chichester, Knt., Lord Chichester of Belfast, our Deputy 
 General of our said realme of Ireland, resolved to constitute, erect, and make one perpetual free 
 school for the County of Tyrone, to be held at Dungannon, in the said County of Tyrone, fored. ; 
 and that there .shall beasehoolmaster there, at the nomination of the I ;ight He V. Father in God the 
 Lord Archbishop of Armagli for the time being, and appointed and placed by us, our heirs, and 
 successors. And we do further, by these presents, ordeine, establish, and grant, for us, 
 our heirs and successors, that the schoolmaster of the said school for the time being for 
 ever, shall, for his better means and livelihood, have, hold, and enjoy, all and singular, the 
 towns, villages, or hamlets of Macherclawchilly, Aghmoylan, Derrilaghan, Derritraskc, 
 Laiidroniau.;h, Coally, Toucher, also Kemch r, Mullanc, Loghoge, Mollin, also MuUino et 
 Treane ; containing by estimation seven hundred acres, be it more or lesse, situate, lying, 
 and being in the county of Tyrone ; together also with all and singular, castles, messuages, 
 houses, edifices, buildings, orchards, gardens, lands, tencnts., meadows, feedings, pastures, 
 woods, underwoods, heaths, furrs, mills, moors, mears, waters, watercourses, fishings, com- 
 mons, commodities, and hercdits., whatsoever, to the said premises, and to every or any of 
 them belonging, or in anywise appertaining; and in full accomplishment of our Godlie and 
 gratious purpose above expressed, and for the good opinion we conceive of our wcll-bcloved 
 subject, John Bullingbrooke, in teaching and instructing the youth of the said county of 
 Tyrone, in our said realme of Ireland, both in good literature and principles of true religion. 
 We, of our special grace, certain knowledge, and mcer motion, for us, our heirs and suc- 
 cessors, we do by these presents authorise and appoint the said John Bullingbrooke to bo 
 schoolmaster there; and him, the said John Bidlingbrooke, by these presents, we doordcinc, 
 constitute, and make schoolemaster of the said .schoolo; and the said place or office of school- 
 master of the said .schoole we, for us, our heirs and successors, do, by these presents, give 
 and grant unto the s:ud John Bnllingbrnoko, to have, hold, use, and exercise the said office 
 or pi ICO of schoolmaster to him, the said John Bullingbrooke, during his comoraucy ihorc.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 339 
 
 and so long as he shall well beliavo hiinsclfc. And also of our abundant grace, certain Extracix frmn the 
 kuow]cdo;e, nicer motion, and in further accomplishment of our said Godlic and gracious ^<'":''^l<'>ll,Cli"''cer!/, 
 purpose and intent, for the better maintunam.e of the said schoolmaster, we, by these </,'. Eoyal Sckooh. 
 
 presents, give and grant unto the said John BuUingbrooke, for the exercising of the said 
 
 olSoe or place of schoolmaster, the profits, issues, and commodities of those towns, lands, 
 tenements, and hereditaments whatsoever, above expressed, with all and singular, their 
 rights, members, and appurtenances, to have and to hold, all the said towns, tenements, and 
 hereditaments, to the said John BuUingbrooke during his comor.incie there, and so long as 
 he sliall behavec himself well in the said place or office of sidioolmastcr there, without 
 paying any rent or other rescrvacion for the same ; and our furtlxir will and pleasure is, that 
 these our letters patents, and all other clauses, articles, and grants therein contained, and 
 every of them, shall be good, effectual, and available, to all intents, constructions, and pur- 
 ])Oses, accordmg to our princely meaningo therein specified, any statute, act, ordinance, or 
 provision whatsoever to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding, although no express 
 mention of the true yearly rent or value of the premises, or any part thereof, to be in these 
 presents expressed, any statute, act, ordinance, or provision to the contrary in any wise not- 
 withslauding. In witness whereof we have caused these, our letters, to be made patents. 
 Witness our said Peputy General of our said Eealme of Ireland, at Dublin, the thirteenth 
 day of May, in the thirteontli year of our reigne of England, France, and Ireland, and of 
 Scotland the eight and fortieth. 
 
 Per breve de privato sigillo. 
 
 4. — Letter from Kino James I. directing Letters I'atent to ho passed, conveying Lands 
 allotted to Free Schools to Archbishop of Armagh, for distribution, &c. &c. 
 
 (Extracted from the Patent Roll of the Court of Chancery, Ireland, of the 1 7th year of 
 
 the Eeign of James I.) 
 James Rex. 
 
 Right trustie and well-beloved, We greet you well : Whereas, by our Ires, under our i August, leie. 
 Privy Signet, bearing date, at our Pallace of Westminster, the one and twentieth day of 
 April, in the thirteenth year of our reign of England, we signified that for the advance- 
 ment of piety and leai-ning in that our kingdome, we were pleased to bestow in the 
 plantation of Ulster, certain of our escheated lands there, for the maintenance of divers 
 gramer schooles, and to be gleabes for the incumbent of the several parishes within that 
 our province ; and to that end we made choice of the Most Reverend Father in God the 
 Lord Archbishop of Ardmagh, to whose discretion we thought fitt to comitt the distribu- 
 tion of the said lands, as well on regard of his approved fidelity, whereof we have had 
 long experience, as also in respect the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of that province belongeth 
 principally to his charge, and, therefore, was best able to informe himself of the most apt 
 places wherein it is mete to have gramer schools established, and what proportions of 
 land were fit, according to the abilitie of the several churches there, to be assigned for 
 glebes unto them ; according to this our gracious pleasure, we required our deputy then 
 being, by oiu- said letters, by advise of our learned counsell, to convey .sufficiently in law, 
 by grant from us, all the said lands so assigned for the uses aforesaid, unto the said Arch- 
 bishop of Ardmagh, that by liira they might be distributed and allotted in forme of lawe 
 to the several schools and churches, as he should think fitt, according to our i-eligious 
 intention thereby signified, which letters of ours, as we are informed, have not taken 
 that effect which we wished they might; and albeit, as we are advertised, the said 
 Archbiishop hath appointed certain schoolmasters for the several schools, and that there are 
 incumbents in the several churches within the said province, yet by reason the said lands 
 are not accordingly conveyed for tJieir maintenance as we intended ; the same lands are 
 daily diminished, and the schoolhouses not builded, to the hinderance of education, and 
 well breeding of the gentre and youth of that province in learning and religion, Ave, being 
 desirous to settle theis lands according to oiu- former pious intention, "are, therefore, 
 graciously pleased, and do hereby require and authorise you, with the advice of some of 
 our learned counsel, there to make an effectual grant, or grant in due forme of lawe, bv 
 Ires, patents under the great seale of that our realm from us, our heirs, and successor.s 
 without fine unto the said now Archbishop of Ardmagh, and to his successors, of aU' 
 our said escheated lands, with their rights, members, and appurts. allotted or intended for 
 the maintenance of gramer schools, and to be glebes for the incumbents of the several 
 parishes within oiu: province as aforesaid, and to be passed by such particular name or 
 names as the same are called or known, upon trust and confidence that the said Arch- 
 bishop and his successors shall, with convenient speed, sufficiently convey and assure the 
 said lauds allotted or assigned for the maintenance of the said schooles luito the several 
 masters and ushers of the same schooles resply. now erected or to be erected within the 
 said province, and to such psons. of qualitie and their successors as the said Archbishop 
 shall under his handwriting nominate, being first incorporated and enabled by lers. 
 patent under the greate seale of that oiu- realme, by advice of some of our learned council 
 there to purchase lands and heredits. to the value of fifty pounds by the yeare to them 
 and their succrs. for the maintenance of the said schooles, which sd. schoolmasters and 
 
 Vol. II. 2X2
 
 340 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 p^e»tUoll{chl!tn/, "sliers successively our pleasure is, shall Le from time to time nominated and appointed by 
 Ireland, relating to ' tlie Said Archbisliop during his life, and after his decease, by the bishops of the several 
 the Royal Schouls. dioccsses within the said provinces resply.,- and lilcewise convey and assure, within 
 convenient time, into every of the said several incumbents and their succrs. the said lands 
 allotted or assigned for glebes to the several parishes, having first obtained license by like 
 Ires, patent to purchase the same to them and their several and respective succrs. And 
 AVe are also gratiously jileased, and do litewise hereby require and aurliorise you, for the 
 erecting and maintaining of a quire of singing men and choristers in the catliedral church 
 of St. Tatrick, in Ardmagh, in our said province, by like Ires, ijatcnts, to make a grant 
 from us, oTu- heirs, and succrs. without fine unto the dcane and chapter of the said 
 cathedral cliurcli of St. Patrick, in Ardmagh, and to their succrs., of the lands and 
 heredits. antiently belonging to the priors, vicars choralls of St. Patrick's, in xVi-dmagh 
 aforesd. upon trust and confidence that the said dean and chapter, and their succrs., 
 shall for ever maintain a chaunter and sufficient quire of singing men and clioristers in the 
 said cathedral church of St. Patrick, in Ardmagh, the said chaunter and choristers to be 
 governed by the said deane and chapter of tlie said church, and their succrs. for the time 
 being, excepting and reserving unto us, our heirs, and succrs. out of the loresaid priors 
 and vicars' chorals lands, whei-e the said arehl^ishop shall think most conveiiient for our 
 service, a portion of ground of fower score foote in length, and fortie foot in breadth, for 
 a sessions-house and gaole in the saide towne of Ardmagh, to be thereupon built for the 
 publique use and service of the said towne and coimty of Ardmagh, which we require you 
 and the said archbishop to take order may be erected, within convenient time, upon the 
 charge of the inhabitants of the said towne and county, and with such moneys as are 
 already or shall be collected for that purpose, the custodie of which gaole our pleasure is, 
 shall be committed to the sheriff of the co. of Ardmagh for the time being, for the better 
 and more safe keeping of the prisoners there from time to tune ; and our fiu'thcr gratious 
 pleasure is, and so we do hereby require and authorise you to make a grant, by like Ires, 
 patents, from us, our heirs, and succrs. without fine unto the said now Archbishop of 
 Ardmagh and his successors, of all that, the site, circuit, and precinct, of the late dissolved 
 house or friery of Franciscan l'"riers, with the appurts. in the said towne of Ardmagh, for 
 his better enablement to erect a house for him and his successors there, the said land and 
 other the premises to be holden of us, our heirs, and succrs. in frankalmoigne. And 
 AVhereas, the late dissolved church of tlie nunns, called Tcmplefartagh, in tlie said towne 
 of Ardmagh, being appointed -for a parsonage house, there hath been passed amongst 
 other tilings, by letters patent, as we are informed, to our trustie and well-beloved Sir 
 Francis Annesley, Knight, our principal Secretary of that our realnic, and his heirs, We 
 require you, if you find it just, to proportion a recompense for the same to the said 
 Sir Francis Annesley, which recompense and satisfiiction is to be made by tlie said arch- 
 bishop, whereby the said Sir Francis may grant and surrender his estate and interest in the 
 said church of the nuns unto us, our heirs, and succrs ; and that tiiereupon you make a 
 grant, by like letters patent, from us, our heirs, and succrs., without fine, of tlie said 
 dissolved church or nunnery, Avitli the lands tliercunto belonging, unto such pson. and iiis 
 successoi's as the said archbishop shall, under his handwriting, nominate unto you, 
 reserving unto us, our heirs, and successors, the rent now answerable unto us for the said 
 nunnery, and a tenure in free and common soccage, as of our Castle of Dublin; and our 
 furtiicr pleasure is, tiiat on our said lers. patent, so to be passed by virtue hereof, there 
 bo inserted a clause of nou-obstante, tlie statute of mortmain, and such other hcccssaiy 
 clauses of non-obstante as may supply any defect in our said letters patent, and in every or 
 any of them, and may avoid all inconvenience of mistaking the ownersiiip therein ; and these 
 our Ires, shall be as well to you our Deputy and Chancellor there now being, as to any other 
 Deputy, Chief Governor or Governors, Chancellor, or Kccjier of tlie Great Scale of that our 
 kingdom wliich hereafter for the time .shall lie, and to all other our officers and ministers 
 whom it .sliall concern, and to cveiy of them a sufficieut warrant and discharge in that 
 beliaU". Given under our Signet at Abthorp, i\\c first day of August, in the seventeenth 
 yeare of our rcigne of England, France, and Ireland, and of Scotland, the tliree and 
 fiftieth. 
 
 To our right trusty and well-beloved Sir Oliver Saint .Tohn. Knt., 
 our Deputy of Ireland; and to our Chancellor tlicre now 
 being, and to any otlior Deputy, Chief Governor, or 
 (Governors, Chancellor, or Keeper of the Great Scale of tliat 
 our kingdom, wliicii hereafter for the time being sh;dl be, 
 and to all otlier our officer and ministers wiiom it »\n\\\ con- 
 cern, and to every of tlicm. 
 
 Md. quod sido die Scptemln-., anno dm. 1G19, Johcs Tench 
 gener. venit in Cane. Dm. liegis regno our Ilibr. et fetyt. 
 lias bras suprascript. irropulari ad cujus reguisreocm irrotu- 
 lamtur do vcrbo in nerbu. front supius.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 341 
 
 iiepart of (^omvii%- 
 No. XIX. liEI'OIlT OF CO.MJIISSIONEUS OF IlUSII EDUCATION InQUIIIY, 17'Jl. 1"J,feif f^l.T"" 
 
 CoFY of Kf,fort* of Commissioners appointed by His Excellency the Lonl Lieutenant of 
 Ireland, in 178S, under the provision of an Act, 28tli Geo. II., c. 15 (Irish), entitled 
 an "Act to enable tlio Lord Lieutenant or other Chief Governor or Governors of this 
 kingdom, to appoint Commissioners for inquiring into the several fiinds and revenues 
 granted by publick or private donations for the purpose of education in thi.s kingdom, 
 and into tlie state and condition of all schools in tliis kingdom on public or charitable 
 foundations, and of the funds appropriated for the maintenance and support thereof, and 
 for the other purposes herein mentioned." 
 
 To Ilis E.\cellency John Fane, Eaul of Westmoreland, Lord Lieutenant General 
 
 and General Governor of Ireland. 
 
 Wo, the Commissioners, &c., having reported to your Excellency the several matters 
 appearing to us upon the Examinations and Inquiries made by ns jiursuant to the said Act 
 of Parliamont ; and having rcjiortcd to your Excellency, under the hands of tiie respective 
 witnesses, who have delivered the said Examinations upon oath, the evidence given by 
 them in tlieir own words ; by which Examinations all abuses that have appeared to us to 
 have taken place concerning any of the said schools, or the conduct or management 
 thereof, or of the lands, tenements, hereditaments or other funds granted or devised 
 for the maintenance or support thereof, have been laid before your Excellency. 
 
 We now proceed to ])erforni, in the best manner we are able, the only remaining duties 
 vested in us by the said Act of Parliament, namely, to report such remedies as shall appear 
 to us, or any three of us, to be proper or necessary for the reformation of such abuses as 
 appear to us to exist, and to prevent the continuance and repetition of the same ; and also 
 to report and suggest to your Excellency such plans for the improvement of the education 
 of the youtli of this kingdom in public schools, and for the better regulating, managing, 
 and governing the same, as shall appear to us, or any three of us, to be expedient and 
 practica])le. 
 
 Wc have undertaken a very laborious and a very invidious task ; but we act upon oath, 
 
 ' * After tlie most careful inquiry in the public offices in Publin and London, and inquiries from tlie Eai-1 of 
 Donouginnore, Mr. WyfO, .and tlie Ed.scwortli family, we were unable to obtain the origiuiil of this Ileport, which, 
 though never published, is quoted by the School Committee of the House of Commons in 1630, as the Report of 
 1788. It is .nisi) referred to by the Commissioners ot 1807-12. 
 
 This Iteport was recently discovered ;iniongst the papers of the late John Corneille, Esq., who w,as Secretary 
 to the Commissioners of tlie 13o,ai-d of Education Ironi 1807 to 1812, and who was the first Secretsiry of the Com- 
 missioners of Education in 18ia. It was obtained by us, by permission of John Corneille. Esq., of Bagueres 
 de Luchon, Haute Garonne, Erancc, son of the secretary, from Daniel Corneille, Esq., his nephew, of Woodpark, 
 Kocbestown-avenue, Blackrock, in whose custody it was. 
 
 The copy is entitled " Dkaft Pl.vn of Ein:c.4TniN, by the Kight Hon. The Secretary of State," and endorsed 
 "This Copy belonu's to Isaac Corry, Esq. ;" with this fui'ther endorsement, "Letter signed Kobert Marshall, .and 
 dated liJth October, 17;)1, attached heivto, 1). Cou.neilli;, 10th July, ISjli." 
 
 The letter is as follows: — 
 
 "No. 2, Bagot-street, Dublin, IDth October, 1799. 
 
 " Dear Sib Inclosed I send you a draft of the Secretary of State's plan. I have a very good reason to think 
 
 that (government will take up this busine>s immediately. 
 
 "The Secretary of State has directed nic to say, that ho has considered and in general adopted all Mr. Forbes's 
 sentiments, which he highly approved of. lie (the Sccret.ary of St;ue) may indeed have omitted to propose some 
 of them for the present, which r.hite to regulations of an invidious nature, conceiving it to be the business of the 
 Act of I'arlianient to carry the plans of tlie Commissioucrs into execution, who should .avoid mentioning any such 
 regulations, unless when absolutely necessary. 
 
 "Mr. Daly's recovery is not now looked lor; his best friends anxiously wish for his dissolution. 
 
 " If you should meet Mr. Cooke, 1 beg you will tell him, with my best respects, that I wrote to him some time 
 since to beg to know where i shoulil send "his copy : and that if I can find' out his addres.s this day with any cer- 
 tainty, I will forward the copy to him without waiting for an answer, being apprehensive that he may wish to give 
 it an early consideration." 
 
 " 1 am, dear Sir, with great respect, your most faithful, humble servant, 
 
 "I'OEEBT Marshall." 
 
 Two additional copies of tlic Kcport were afterwards discovered amongst the books of the Commissioners of 
 ICducation, which had escaped a previous starch, as the Secretary of that Board, when applied to lor the Kejiort 
 of 1791, was not aware that the document entitled "I'lan of Education by the Kight Hon. the Secretary of State," 
 was really the Report of 1791. 
 
 That it was so appears from the following letter of the Lord Primate to Mr. Corneille, on appointment of 
 the Commissioners in J 807, and from the amenduicnt in the first page by Mr. Corneille in the copy referred to in 
 this letter. 
 
 The emlorsenient is as follows : — 
 
 " 'J'his book is the property of my Lord Primate. It was left in my care by his Grace. It contains a IJeport of 
 the proceedings of tlie Commissioners of Imiuir.N into the funds for education in Ireland in 1788, and was di'awn 
 uii by the l.ate Bight lion. Hely Hutchin.son." 
 
 The following is the letter of the Lord Primate to Tdr. Corneille: — 
 
 " Sib, I left upon the table of the Council C hamber the Beport of the last Committee in a green book. I take 
 
 for gi'anted that you took it witli the other p;ipers. I brought it thither for the pm-pose of placing it in your hands, 
 as the Board expressed a wish to have one copy made for their use. 
 
 " I have the honour to be, your verj- humble servant, 
 "Armagh, January 19 1807." "W.Armagh."
 
 342 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Jteport nfCommis- and it is our dutv to lay before your Excellency such facts as have been proved before us, 
 ''"uTnlfi^uin^ r'qT"' ''^"'^' ^^^^ practicable remedies as have occurred to us, for the many abuses vrhich we have 
 
 'J ' discovered. 
 
 To lay our thoughts clearly before your Excellency on a subject of such extent and 
 complication, we beg leave to take a general view of the school education of this country, 
 as founded on public institution or private donation.* 
 
 English Parish Schools. 
 
 In this vievr the first object that presents itself is the institution of English schools, 
 founded on the Act of the 28th Henry VIII., chap. 15, which directs every archbishop, 
 bishop, &c., " to give a corporal oath to every person on his admission to any dignity, 
 " benefice, ofEce, or promotion, spiritual, that he shall, to his v.-it and cunning, endeavour 
 '■■ himself to learn, instruct, and teach the English tongue to all and every being under his 
 " rule, care, order, or governance, and shall bid the beads, and preach in English, and use 
 " and exercise the English order and habit, and provoke as many as he can to the same, 
 " and keep or cause to be kept within the place, territory, or parish where he shall have 
 " pre-eminence, rule, benefice, or promotion, a school to learn English, if any children of 
 " his parish come to him to learn the same, taking for the keeping of the said school such 
 " convenient stipend or salary as in the said land is accustomably used to be taken. Arch- 
 " bishops, bishops, &c., omitting to give the said oath, to forfeit £3 Gs. 8d. ; and beneficed 
 " clergymen not observing it to forfeit 6s. 8d. for tlie first offence, 20s. for the second, and 
 " benefice for the third. This Act not to extend to beneficed persons bound to keep 
 " residence in any metropolitan cathedral or collegiate church, or at study at any univer- 
 '•' sity, or in the King's service ; but the parish priest who, in their absence, shall serve 
 " under them, shall teach the English tongue, or keep a school according to this Act, upon 
 •' forfeiture of 205. for every year he shall omit the same." 
 
 The said Act, by another Act of the seventh year of King William III., is directed to be 
 observed and put in execution. 
 
 We beg leave to observe, that by the said Act of Henry A^IIL, every incumbent within 
 this kingdom is bound to keep, or cause to be kept in his parish, a school to " learn " 
 English, and that no mention has been made of the salary or stipend to be paid by such 
 incumbent to the person who shall keep such school ; but we find that in nearly one-half 
 of the united benefices, and single benefices not united in this kingdom, a general usage 
 has prevailed by which the said stipend has been limited, some veiy few instances excepted, 
 to 40.S. yearly for the united benefice, or single benefice not united ; and that by the great 
 number of uuioiis which have taken place since the making of those Acts, tlie increased 
 price of the necessaries of life, and the great fall in the value of money, the allowance of 
 40.S. yearly is a recompense totally inadequate for the performance of that duty to which 
 the incumbent was bound by that Act ; and yet this small allowance is not paid by one-half 
 of the united benefices, and single benefices not united, in this kingdom. 
 
 The objects in this Act of 28 Hemy VIII. are too limited, as the master is not required 
 to instruct children in writing, arithmetic, or the principles of the Christian rehgion. But, 
 as the English language could not have been properly taught without instructing the 
 scholars in reading and writing it, we find that these have been constantly made, as far 
 back as we have been able to trace, the objects of instruction in parish schools. 
 
 The Act is also defective in making no provision for the education of the children of the 
 poor. 
 
 The duty imposed upon the clergyman of keeping a school himself, if he does not provide 
 a master, is degrading to his order, and should be no longer continued ; and one of the 
 modes of compelling tlie performance of this duty, namely, by deprivation of benefice, is so 
 severe, that few persons will resort to this remedy. 
 
 For the purpose of carrying into execution the intentions of those Acts, to improve the 
 system of education provided by them for the lower ordei's of the peoj)le, and to give that 
 .system a more beneficent and extensive eifect, we humbly propose, that in every united 
 benefice, and in every single benefice not united, the incumbent sliould ])ay 40s. yearly, 
 being the estimate which, in a great number of tiie parishes of tliis kingdom, tlie clergy 
 have made for themselves; which, supposing the number of tlie said benefices to bo 1,100, 
 according to the evidence laid before us, would amount to the yearly sum of £2,200 ; of 
 which the clergy would have no cause to complain, that being the rate usually ])aid for a 
 great length of time wliero any thing has been actually paid. And, as a further relief to the 
 clergy, we are of 0])inion that the burthen should not bo thrown solely upon them, as those 
 laws intended, but that the parishioners sliouhl e([ually contribute, and should raise in vestry 
 the sum of 40.5. yearly. 
 
 It is proposed, also, tliat the jjari.sh clerk should be the sclioolmaster ; and that each 
 united benefice, and single benefice not united, should be bound to present the full sum of 
 £20 yearly for every parish clerk, being tlic highest sum which tliey may now present by 
 the laws in force in this kingdom, which, for 1,100 benefices, would amount to the sum of 
 £22,000. 
 
 * Wc beg lenve to observe that Oic Exnniirmtiona and Tnriiiirios coutuiiud in our former Koport were taken and 
 inadu ill tlic years 1783 .ind 1 TbO. The inlbrtuatiun reecived on subsequent Inijuiries is partieuliirly dietiugiUslied 
 in this licport.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 343 
 
 And it is also rocomiiu'tulcd tliat the parish clerk should be bound to keep a school ou iieport of Cnmma- 
 cvoiy Sunday, in the afternoon. nionersvfinsli Educa- 
 
 Many of the present clerks may possibly be not altogether fit for schoohnasters ; but '""' ^"'i'""J< '^ai. 
 temporary inconveniences ought not to bo attended to in schemes proposed for the benefit 
 of posterity, and a ])robablo consequence of this scheme would be, tiiat licreafter the clerk, 
 as well as the schoolmaster, wouhl bo improved by tiie proposed regulation. JN'or is this 
 regulation without pi(!cedent, having been, as the Commissioners are informed, long prac- 
 tised in Scotland, wliicli country lias received great henelit from this institution. 
 
 We think it reasonable tliat imjiropriators should also contribute, which we conceive 
 might produce an annual addition of £1,000. 
 
 By the improvements which will be hereafter suggested to be made to the Charter 
 School system of education, it is apprehended that the four Charter School nurseries might ' 
 be suppressed as useless; and it is our opinion, tluat the sums annually voted for that 
 purpose should be applied towards the support of parish schools, which would amount to 
 £1,900 yearly. 
 
 These sevei-al articles would amount in the whole to £29,300 yearly. 
 The number of schools, if equal to the number of united benefices and benefices not 
 united, would bo 1,100, the annual expense of which would be, according to the estimate 
 in the Appendix, £'2'.i,52'>, which includes the expense of gratuitous scholars, and of copy 
 books, pens, and paper, for their use ; and of those gratuitous scholars the number in the 
 Avhole kingdom would be 25,250. The surplus remaining would be an annual sum of 
 £.0,775, which would be a fund abundantly sufficient for hiring schoolhouses, or for raising 
 a sum for building schoolhouses, if that mode should be preferred ; and also for furnishing 
 such books as may be thought necessary for the use of the Sunday schools. 
 
 This surplus would be considerably increased if, according to a generally received 
 opinion. 900 parish schools would be sufficient for the whole kingdom ; and the charge of 
 schoolhouses or buildings would be diminished from a fact which has appeared before us, 
 namely, that the number of parish schoolhouses akeady provided amounts to 200 and 
 upwards. It is apprehended that the visitors or governors of these schools should be, the 
 incumbent, churchwardens, and four parishioners, two Protestants and two llonian Catho- 
 lics, to be named I)y vestry. That the incumbent, instead of the duty prescribed by the 
 existing laws, should be bound only to inspect and visit the schools, to examine the children 
 as to their progress in the prescribed course of education, and to instruct such as are 
 Protestants in the principles of the Established religion; and that an oath should be taken 
 before some neighbouring magistrate to that effect by every incumbent, or by the curate 
 in cases where the parochial duties shall be performed by the curate oidy ; and the incum- 
 bent to be obliged to make yearly reports of the state of the said school in his parish to 
 the Board of Control hereinafter recommended to be appointed for those and other 
 purposes ; and the said governors to make rules and regulations for the conduct of every 
 such school. 
 
 It is our opinion that the children of Roman Catholics and Protestants should be 
 admitted indiscriminately into the schools, and that the clergy of each persuasion should 
 attend for the purpose of instructing the children belonging to their respective commimions 
 in the principles of religion ; a mode practised, as we are informed, with great success in 
 the school of Saint Andrew's, Dublin, and of Saint Peter's, Drogheda. 
 
 To induce persons to send their children to the parish schools, we recommend that no 
 person should be entitled to any exemption from the hearth-money tax, or to partake of 
 the charitable contributions of the parish, unless they send their children, if they have any, 
 to the parish school ; or unless, by their distance or other circumstances, to be approved 
 of by tlie Governor.^, they show reasonable cause for not doing so. 
 
 In these schools reading, writing, and the first five rules of arithmetic, should be taught; 
 and as an encouragement to parents to send their children to these schools, such scholars a3 
 shall be certified by the parson or his curate, with the parishioners assembled in vestry, to 
 have made a considerable proficiency there, to be drafted off, not exceeding a certain number 
 annually, to the diocesan school hereinafter mentioned of the diocese in which such parish 
 is situated ; and that such of them as fall within the rules laid down for the government 
 of the charter schools, should be also sent there. 
 
 The election of the master to bo by the clergymen and the parishioners in vestry 
 assembled. 
 
 The master to enjoy his office during good hehavioin-, and to take an oath before some 
 magistrate of the county, that he wUl faithfully and dihgently perform his duty as master 
 of the said school. 
 
 By the plan proposed for the improvement of that part of the system of national education 
 which relates to English parochial schools, we beg leave to observe that the clergy would 
 be relieved from the pressure of a very severe Act of Parliament, a better mode of education 
 would be provided for the lower orders of the people, and such of them as were unable to 
 pay would be gratuitously instructed ; and for the attainment of those great national 
 objects, which we consider as the most important respecting education, an adequate fund 
 has been proposed without the necessity of resorting to the legislature for imposing new 
 burthens, and without calling for any local contributions but such as can bo easily borne, 
 and from which benefits, far exceeding the amount of the expense, will he conferred ou 
 the contributors. 
 
 The plan proposed would oblige the clerk to constant residence in the parisli. If the
 
 344 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 liepori of Commii- sum of £5,000, whicli the Board of First Fruits is, by an Act of the last Session, allowed 
 
 sionersoflrhhEduca- ^^ apply partly towards the building of glebe-houses, was to be applied annually to that 
 
 uon n qmrij , . p^^^pQgg^ jj ^yould, it is hopcd, iu time contribute greatly to the residence of the parish 
 
 clergymen, which would have a powerful effect in promoting the success of those parish 
 
 schools, and other purposes of good education. 
 
 Diocesan Free Schools. 
 
 The nest public institution for the education of youth in this kingdom was in the twelfth year 
 of Queen Elizabeth's reign, when an Act passed for the erection of a free school within every 
 diocese of this realm, the schoolhouse for every diocese to be erected iu the principal shire 
 towns of the diocese where schoolhouses were not already built, at the cost and charges 
 of the whole diocese, without respect of freedoms, by the oversight of the ordinaries of the 
 diocese, or of the vicars-general, sede vacante, and the sheritf of the shire. Tlie Lord 
 Deputy, or other governor or governors of this realm for the time being, with the advice 
 of the Council, are, according to the quality and quantity of every diocese, to appoirit for 
 every schoolmaster such yearly salary, where none is already appointed, as he with and 
 by their advice shall think expedient, whereof the ordinaries shall bear for ever the third 
 part, and the parsons, and other ecclesiastical persons of the same diocese, the other two 
 parts, by an equal contribution to be made by the ordinaries; and all the churches, par- 
 sonages, vicarages, and other ecclesiastical livings, that have come by any title to the 
 Queen or any of her progenitors, shall be charged with this payment and contribution, in 
 whatever hands the same are or shall come. (See 12th Elizabeth, ch. L) 
 
 That this institution was considered of great national importance appears from the 
 sentiments of Sir John Davis, one of the principal instruments employed by Government, in 
 the ensuing reign, in promoting good order and civihzation iu this kingdom. lie expresses 
 his sentiments on this subject in the following words: — " Moreover, to give a civil education 
 " to the youth of this land iu the time to come, provision was made by another law (meaning 
 " this Act of Elizabeth,) that there should be one free school at least erected in every diocese 
 " of this kingdom." 
 
 Other Acts were made promoting this institution : by the 12th Goo. II., ch. 9, power is 
 given to every archbishop, bishop, dean, dean and chapter, dignitary or prebendary of a 
 cathedral church, out of any land to any of them belonging, to set apart any piece of ground 
 not e.Kceeding one plantation acre, in some convenient part of the diocese, to be apjiroved 
 of by the chief governor or governors of this kingdom for the time being, and that such 
 piece of ground shall for ever be deemed and reputed to be the place for the free school 
 of the said diocese; and that until such piece of ground shall be set out, the free school 
 shall be kept in such convenient place within the said diocese as the arelibishops or bishops 
 of the same can pi-ocure for a yearly n-nt or otherwise, provided that when in any diocese 
 there already is a piece of ground legally appropriated to the use of a diocese school, such 
 piece of ground shall for over remain tlie place for the diocesan school of the said diocese; 
 and after the appointment of a place for a free school, the Grand Jury of each county are 
 empowered, from time to time, to present such sums as they shall find reasonable for their 
 respective proportion towards building or repairing such diocese school, to be levied upon 
 the whole or such part of the said county as shall be situated in each respective diocese. 
 
 And by the said Act, the archbishop, bi.shop, vicar-gencral and ciiancellor of the diocese, 
 are empowered to sequester the profits of the benefice of any beneficed clergynuui wIk) 
 shall not pay his proportion to the schoolmaster at the visitation, or within three calendar 
 months alter. 
 
 Proportionable presentments having been found impracticable, the Grand Jury of each 
 county wherein a diocese school is situated are empowered, by the 29th Geo. II., ch. 7, to 
 present for the repairing of such school. 
 
 After the most diligent inquiry we have not been able to find any appointment made by 
 the Chief Governor and I'rivy Council pursuant to the Act of the r2th Elizabeth, or whether 
 any such appointment has been at any time made, except only that in an original aj^plot- 
 mcnt for the diocese of Connor, an appointment for that diocese by the Lord Lieutenant 
 and Council is recited. It is probable, from the name of the bishop, that this appointment 
 was made some time after the year 1G73, in which year the bishop therein mentioned was 
 appointed, but the date of tlie appointment is not legible. 
 
 iS'ot having been able to obtain any infcn-mation from the proceedings of the Privy Council, 
 the books of wliich were consumed by fire in the year 1711, nor irum the llolls' or Auditor- 
 General's ofKces, we resorted to the registers of the several dioceses of this kingdom, who 
 have reported to us that they have no trace of any such aj)poinfment in any of their oiBccs. 
 Wc find hy the evidence of several diocesan schoolmasters examined before us, that annual 
 salaries of different amounts, from £20 12v. 4f/. yearly at the lowest, to £40 yearly at the 
 highest, arc payable to the diocesan schoolmasters, and tliat one-third of this sum is jiaid 
 by the respective ordinaries; but by what authority such salaries have been paid, or from 
 what period they have been first paid, or whether any salary had been appointed jirevious 
 to the passing of the said Act, wc have not been able to discover. 
 
 From this institution the public receives very inadequate benefit; in many dioceses there 
 are neither diocesan schools nor schoolhouses; in many the houses arc ruinous, and the 
 mastership of the scholars mere sinecures. 
 
 In the thirty-lour dioceses we find only twenty diocesan schoolmasters, though the Act
 
 DOCUMENTS. 345 
 
 of Klizabotli directs tliat thore sliall bo n free scliool in every (lioccse. Of this minibor six J^ciiort uf Commh- 
 recolvod tlieir salaries, but did not act ; in one inHtance, tlie actual usher of another school "'ZTlI/uin' f^laT' 
 
 iiad been ai)[)ointed diocesan schoolmaster, and received the salary, but kept no school ; - .' 
 
 and of the remainder, very few kept such schools as in any respect answered the end of the 
 institution ; and to the 12th (jeo. 1. it had turned to little account, as appears by an Act of 
 Parliament passed in that year (sec 12 (ieo. I., ch. ',)). 
 
 To render diocesan schools more useful, we beg leave to suggest the following regula- 
 tions : — That the Lord Lieutenant and Council shindd now make an appointment for each 
 diocese in the kingdom, pursuant to tiie said Act of the 12th Elizabeth ; and that applot- 
 ments should bo made in jnirsuance of the said appointment, and agreeably to the direc- 
 tions of the said Act of I'arliament ; and tiiat the impropriators should contribute cquallv 
 witli the clergy. 
 
 If the power has not been already e.vecuted, it still remains in the Lord Lieutenant and 
 Privy Council, but thisslioald 1)0 regulated Ijy a new act. 
 
 J5y tlie Act of 12th Klizabeth. the whole expense is imposed upon the clergy ; that of 
 repairing was afterwards partly imposed upon the county. We beg leave to recommend 
 that the whole expense of building, as well as repairing, and that half of the annual expense 
 of the schoolmasters, should be borne by the county ; but we humbly submit it to your 
 Excellency, as our opinion, that this institution should bo rendered more useful by tlie 
 introduction of a second master, for the piir()oso of instructing in mathematical learniii''-; 
 and by the reception of a certain number of gratuitous scholars, not exceeding twenty, into 
 each of those schools. 
 
 The sums now payable by the clergy throughout the kingdom, for the support of these 
 sciiools, amount to £(J16 5s. Id., yearly : but the whole of this is not paid ; fourteen of the 
 dioceses do not at all contribute, and such as do contribute, wiiich are twenty in number, 
 ]jay at an average £30 Itis. 'Sd. yearly. 
 
 It is hoped that it would not be thought too heavy a charge, if each diocese should, on 
 a reappointnient under the said Act of Elizabeth, contribute such an annual sum as would, 
 upon an average, produce £.50 yearly from each diocese : the total produce of this charge 
 would amount to £1,700 yearly. The ratcage of £30 I6s. 3d. yearly, being the average 
 sum now payable by each of the several dioceses, would, if each diocese were charged, and 
 all are equally liable to the act, amount to the yearly sum of i,'L047 12,«. G</. This small 
 increase of £'J52 7.-^. Gd. yearly, divided among thirty-four dioceses, would not, it is hoped, 
 bo found burthensome, when the respective counties are recommended to contribute a 
 yearly sum of the same amount, and when the object to be attained is of such general and 
 great utility. 
 
 In addition to this fund, it is supposed that £1,924 might be gained out of the sum 
 yearly granted by Parliament to Charter Schools, some of which being of little public 
 utility, on account of the difficulty of superintending them, of finding necessaries for the 
 boys, and masters to take them as apj^rentices, might be suppressed. 
 
 These several sums would amount to £5,324 yearly; and would leave an overplus, after 
 the payment of the masters, of £3,504 yearly, whicli would defray the expenses of 39f) 
 exhibitions, for the support of gratuitous scholars at the diocesan schools, at £9 yearly each, 
 which would be at the rate of eighteen boys for each of the twenty-two bishopricks ; and 
 it is recommended that the said boys should be appointed by the bishop and his clcriry 
 assembled in visitation. 
 
 It is with extreme reluctance that we propose the smallest addition to the burthens of 
 the clergy ; but we are obliged to take the laws as we find them, and to follow the prin- 
 ciples of those laws as far as they fairly lead to a general system of education useful to this 
 country, 
 
 IloYAL Free Schools. 
 
 The next class to be considered is that of Grammar Schools by royal foundation. 
 
 Large tracts of land lying in the counties of Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Fermanagh, and 
 Cavan, which produce at present £3,695 17.'*. 3hd. yearly, were granted by King Charles 1., 
 in the second year of his reign, to the Archbishop of Armagh and his successors for ever, to 
 the sole and proper behoof and use of tlie respective masters of five free schools, in the 
 several counties and places in the grant mentioned. 
 
 1. The lands belonging to the free scliool at Armagh contain 1.41)9 acres of profitable 
 land, and 1.000 acres of bog. The said lands produce yearly £G62 V^. Id. 
 
 They were leased in the year 1771 to Colonel Piers for twenty-one years, at a reserved 
 rent of £400 yearly, payable to the i-choolmaster for the time being. This lease yras in 
 tru.st for Dr. Grueber, the then master, who, in consideration thereof, expended the stun of 
 .f 1.000 towards building a house for the master's residence; and it was renewable yearly 
 ujion the j)ayment of £100 to the present worthy primate, who received no other compen- 
 sation for the sum of £3,000 expended by his grace in building a schoolhouse and offices. 
 The said lease has been renewed to the year 1775 ; but, as Dr. Grueber stated to us, will 
 probably not be renewed any more. 
 
 Dr. Grueber. by agreement with his successor, the Kev. Thomas Carpcndale, retains to 
 himself £250 yearly out of the reserved annual rent of £4 00, by whicli means tliat gentle- 
 man, who is tlie present schoolmaster, receives only £i50 yearly out of the rents of the 
 lands belonging to this school, whicli produce £602 0*. Id. yearly, and the remainder, 
 namely, £512 6s. Id. yearly, goes into the pocket of the late master. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 Y
 
 346 EjS'DOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ueport of Commis- The buildiiigs belonging to tbis school are a sclioolhonsc and ofiiccs, and a house for the 
 dotiers of Irish Educa- j^aster's residence. They cost i'5,200, and will contain 100 boarders; thesclioolhouse and 
 iKpivry, I . ^gjpgg ^Qg^ £3,000, which sum was paid by the primate for the suiall renewal fine above 
 mentioned. 
 
 The bouse for the masters residence cost £2,2(0. which was paid by tlie said Dr. 
 Grueber, of which sum £1,000 was paid by him for the lease above mentioned ; the further 
 sum of £1,028 he was allowed to charge to his successor, as two years' income of the rent 
 and annual value put upon the demesne and primates buildings ; and for the remainder, 
 namely, £172, the said Dr. Grueber did not receive any consideration. 
 
 The Rev. Tiiomas Carpendale was appointed by the primate to be master of this school 
 on tlie 3rd Slarch, 1786, during bis good behaviour. Of the school we cannot speak too 
 favourablj'. There were fifty boarders in it, and si.\tcen day scholars, five of wlicm were 
 free scholars. 
 
 2. We are sorry to find ourselves obliged to make some animadversions on the facts which 
 have been stated to us in evidence respecting the school lands of Dungannon, in the 
 county of Tyrone. By the Statute of the 1st Geo. II., chap. 15, the rent to be reserved 
 ought to be three fourths of the true value of the said lands; the remaining one-fourth to 
 be applied to the buildings, or otherwise to the use and benefit of the said schools. 
 
 Dr. iMurray, the present master of the Free School at Dungannon, having previously 
 caused the lands appropriated to this school to be valued, by five gentlemen of the neigb- 
 bourliood, at £-570 per annum only, procured on the 1st May, 1785, a lease of the said 
 lands for twenty-one years, to be made to bis brother in trust for himself; in which lease 
 the rent reserved to the schoolmaster for the time being is three-fourths of the said sum of 
 £570, or £427 10s. yearly; and the said Dr. Murray paid a fine of £1,235, which was applied 
 towardsthe building a schoolhouse, in consideration of vrhich his rent was as aforesaid abated. 
 On the 1st Llay, 1786, Dr. Murray's said trustee let the lands to several tenants for 
 £975 ISs. Ud. yearly. 
 
 From this statement it is evident that the lands were underrated by the valuers, and 
 that the schoolmaster has contrived to secure a profit rent to himself and his represen- 
 tatives of £548 8s. Id., yearly. The fine which he paid of .i'l,23.'>, entitled him only to 
 £142 IO5., yearly; the remainder thereof, namely, £405 18s. 1\d. is, for so much, an 
 alienation of the funds intended for tlie purposes of education. 
 
 This transaction appeared to us unfair on the part of the schoolmaster, calculated to 
 acquire a property in the school lands for his rej^resentatives, in prejudice to the charity. 
 The valuation is a suspicious, and in the event appears to have been a fraudulent, trans- 
 action, by which the fine was lessened, which should have been £2,114 10.?. 1 It?., instead 
 of £1,2-35 ; and the iurther consequence was, transferring to the representatives of 
 the present master a greater annual sum than his successor (who was to do the duty), was 
 to receive. And we cannot help taking notice, that if Dr. Murray bad paid a proper 
 fine, estimated according to the rent that ought to have been reserved, the school lands 
 would have been exonerated from the expenditure hereafter mentioned in building the 
 schoolhouse. 
 
 The sclioolhouse vrhich has been lately built will accommodate fifty boarders. It cost 
 £2,074, of which sum £1,235 was paid by Dr. Murray as a fiwe for the lease above men- 
 tioned, and he was to be allowed to charge the lands with the remainder. 
 
 Wilhani Murray, d.d., was appointed by the Primate to be master of this free school, on 
 the 1 7th .January. 1788, during his good behaviour. He enjoys tiie full produce of the 
 lands, namely, £975 18s. 'ihl, yearly, for which lie paid £1,235 ; and tliere was but fifteen 
 scholars in his sc'iool, none of whom were free scholars. 
 
 3. The lands belonging to the free school of Raphoe, in the county of Donegal, contain 
 1,070 acres of profitable land, and a large bare mountain. Tliey produce, yearly, to the 
 present master (who lias leased them for twenty-one years, if his incumbency should so 
 long continue) £.j35 14s. 5d. There is a house belonging to this school which was built 
 in the year 1734 ; but it will not accommodate more than two boarders. 
 
 .lohn Lamy, ll.d., was appointed by tlie King's Letters Patent, on the 5th Februarj-, 
 1771. to be master of this free school during his Majesty's pleasure. He had done no 
 duty for three years antecedent to the year 1788. His usher, who kept the scliool, had 
 two boarders and eighteen day scholars; of the latter, five were free sciiolars. 
 
 4. The lands belonging to the free school of Enniskillen, in the county of Fermanagh, con- 
 tain 2, .'337 acres of profitable land and 801 acres of bog. The said lands are mostly leased for 
 the incumbency of the present schoolmaster, to whom they ])roduce £1,271 7.*. \Qd.. yearly, 
 
 A large house has been lately built for this school, by tlie present master, which would 
 accommodate ninety boarders. It cost £3.000. The master will be entitled to charge 
 the lands with two years' income, which, however, will fall short of the money expended 
 by him in tlic building. 
 
 Tlic Rev. JIark Noble, a.m., was appointed by the King's Letters Patent, on the 2nd 
 December, 17GG, to be master of this school during his good beliaviour. He Iiad five 
 boarders and nineteen day scholars ; of the latter sixteen were free scholars. 
 
 5. The lands belonging to the free school at Cavan, which is tlic last of the five free 
 schools above mentioned, contain 556 acres of i)rofitable land and twenty-one acres under 
 water. The said lands are mostly leased by the present master to tlie terrc tenants for 
 twenty-one years, ])rovided his incumbency should so long continue ; they produce 
 £4."0 l.vs. lOcZ., yearly. There is no schoolhouse belonging to the foundation, the t-chool 
 being kept by the u.slier in a house which lie rents of the schoolmaster.
 
 \ 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 34. 
 
 TliG Hov. James Cottinglicam, n.D., was appointed by the King's Letters Patent, in the neport of Commis- 
 year 1755, to bo inasster of this free school, in the room of the liev. James Moore, to whom lio'iersof'IrishKduca- 
 l)r. Cottingham gave £2,000 for liis resignation, witli the knowledge, as he stated to us, ''"" ' "i"'"-' ' 
 of Primate Stone, then a Lord Justice. Doctor Cottingham let the lands to a friend in 
 trust for himself, reserving £90 yearly to the schoolmaster for tlie time being, and sold 
 the scliool to tlie lIcv. Mark Kerr, who was appointed Ijy patent to succeed him, for £500. 
 Kerr resigned in favour of White, his usiicr, for £1,000. "White died in four years, and 
 Doctor Cottingham procured himself to be again appointed sclioolmaster, merely, as he 
 acknowledged, from an apprehension that the lease above mentioned, which he had made 
 to the prejudice of the charity, might be broken if any other person should be appointed 
 schoolmaster, and witli an avowed intention of not keeping tlio school himself. This 
 traffic in great charitable foundations, which miglit be rendered so highly useful to the 
 community is too shameful to need any comment. 
 
 The existing patent, whereby Dr. Cottingham now holds the ofllce of schoolmaster, is 
 dated the 24tii February, 17G4, and the tenure of it is during his Majesty's pleasure. lie 
 was formerly, and for many years, an excellent schoolmaster at this school ; but he had 
 not regularly attended, in ])crson, the duty of a schoolmaster for several years past. He 
 pays the Rev. Charles Meares, who is his curate and usher, £G0 a-year for both ofliccs ; and 
 Mr. Meares pays the assistants, and has all the profits arising from the maintenance and 
 education of the scholars. There were thirty-one boarders and fifteen day scholars at this 
 scliool ; of the latter, twelve were free scholars. 
 
 Banagher, in the King's County, is also a school of royal foundation, supported by the 
 rents of lands granted by the charter of King Charles L, in the fourth year of his reign, 
 to the corporation of the said town, for the ouly use and behoof of such schoolmaster as 
 the deputy, or other chief governor or governors, shall apj^oint to reside and teach in the 
 said town. 
 
 The landiy belonging to this school contain 204 acres of profitable ground, and produce 
 £163 yearly. They were let by the present master for twenty-one years, provided his 
 incumbency should so long continue. There have been some encroachments upon these 
 lands by the neighbouring tenants in the time of a former master. 
 
 There is not any schoolhouso belonging to this school. The master is the rector of 
 Banagher, and resides in the glebe-house. 
 
 The Rev. llichard Warburton, a.m., was appointed by the King's Letters Patent, on the 
 2Cth August, 1777, to be master of this school during his Majesty's pleasure. Mr. War- 
 burton had not a single scholar. 
 
 There is another scliool of royal foundation near Carysfort, in the county of Wicklow, 
 founded in the same year by the charter for incorporating the said town. 
 
 The lauds belonging to this school are granted to the said corporation, to the only use 
 and behoof of such schoolmaster as the deputy or other chief governor or governors shall 
 appoint, to reside and teach in the said town. 
 
 The lands belonging to this school were let by the present master for sixty years, provided 
 his incumbency should so long continue, for £60 yearly : which, as he has stated to us, is 
 the full value of the said lands. 
 
 The Rev. Edward Daily was appointed, by warrant of the Lord Lieutenant, bearing- 
 date the 24th April, 1784, to be master of this school, during his good behaviour. Mr. 
 Baily has never kept a school, nor done any duty as a schoolmastei-, nor does he even 
 reside in the town; lie pays an obscure man £10 yearly, who has whatever profits arise 
 from the said school. 
 
 We should not omit, in this place, to take notice that the Castle of W^icklow, which is 
 in ruins, and about seven or eight acres of land adjoining, have usually been applied to the 
 support of a grammar school in the town of Wicklow. The said castle and lands were 
 granted on the 5th April, 1746, b}' the then Lord Lieutenant to the Rev. Jacob Bryan 
 for tliat purpose, who has let the lands for £10 yeaidy. Mr. Bryan has not kept the 
 school since the year 1749, and has stated to xis that there are very few persons in the 
 neighbourhood able or willing to send their children to a grammar school. 
 
 We are of opinion that large salaries to schoolmasters are generally ruinous to schools, 
 and think that after the deaths of the present schoolmasters, or any vacancy in any of the 
 schools of Armagh, Dangaunon, Raphoe, Enniskillcn, Cavan, and Banagher, this grievance 
 ought to be remedied, and moderate salaries, not exceeding £100 yearly, appointed for each 
 schoolmaster on those foundations, who should be obliged to receive a certain number of 
 day scholars gratuitously, not exceeding 20 in each school, and the sa^angs that shall 
 accrue, after reserving a fund amply sufficient for the support of these schools, to be 
 applied* to the endowment of a collegiate school, the plan of which we will now proceed 
 to lay before youi- Excellency. 
 
 Collegiate School — Outlines of a Vi.xv: for a Great School connected with 
 
 THE University. 
 
 The want of good schools in this kingdom has been long the subject of general 
 complaint. There never was greater cause for it than at present : the learned languages 
 
 * "We observe that by an .ict now in force, nsuiely, the Aet of the 1 4th and 1 jtli of Ch.irles the Secoud, power is 
 given to the cliief governor for the time being, with tlie assent of six or mo.re of the Privy Council .ind witli the 
 advice and ajiprohation of the Archbishop and Bishop of the jirovince ,ind the Bishop of the diocese, to divide the 
 possessions of any one of the freo schools which .oi'c the foundatiun of his Majesty, or of his lv.<yal progcuitors, 
 mto two or more, where they shall find cause. 
 
 Vol, IL 2 T 2
 
 348 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Report of Cummis- are ill tauglit, and voung men are not fraine.l to composition in any language. TIio 
 ^'(ion''l%ii'i'y. 179T" defects in school education essentially afi'ects the knowledge, taste, anil manners of the 
 — - jjoople. Great pains have been taken, for some years past, by tlie Provost and Senior 
 
 Fellows to encoiirage composition. They have repeatedly proposed to the different classes 
 of students a variety of subjects in Latin and English poetry and prose, and have oilered 
 considerable premiums ; but, in general, with little effect, from the defective education at 
 school, where grammar and quantity are not sufficiently attended to. Composition is 
 generally neglected, and a suflieient time is not allowed for acquiring a competent knowledge 
 of the learned languages. 
 
 To remedy those defects, we humbly propose to your l'"xcelleiicy that a great school 
 should be established in this kingdom, to consist, for the present, of one master, and three 
 assistants. When the numbers should require it, a second master to be appointed, and 
 the assistants to be increased to a number not exceeding si.x in the whole. 
 
 Thirty-two Ijoys to be on the foundation, to be called King's scliolars. The King's 
 scholars to have their education, dinner, supper, and dormitory, without any expense. 
 
 And we beg leave to recommend tliat the master and assistants who shall be first 
 appointed, should be brought either from Eton, Westminster, Winchester, or Harrow. Their 
 courses are all good, and agree in the principal object, by making composition the means 
 and the test of acquiring the knowledge of languages. It is proposed to adopt the course 
 of that school from wliich the greater number of the teachers shall coiuc ; but we hope 
 that the time may be a little shortened, and that seven, or at most eight, years, mav be 
 sufficient for going through tliis school. 
 
 The head master to have a salary of £100 yearly; the under masters, £80; each of the 
 assistants, £40. The annual amount of tlie thirty-two King's scholars, estimated at £20 each, 
 ■would amount to £640. 
 
 The salaries of the bead masters and three assistants, would make the 
 total annual expense at the opening of tlie school, and as soon as 
 the number of King's scholars should bo complete, amount to . £SGO 
 
 Tlie appointment of a second master at a salary of £80, and of three 
 additional assistants at £40 yearly each, would increase tlie annual 
 exjDense in a sum of ...... 200 
 
 Total, .... £ 1,000 
 
 Tlie King's schoLirs to be admitted after a public examination, and at a stated time of 
 the year the master or masters, ■when a second shall be appointed to be tlie examiners and 
 electors. The candidates to lay before them compositions in Latin verse and prose, and 
 also to write .such compositions, in the presence of the examiners, on subjects to be given 
 by them. The examiners to lake an oath, to be administered by the bead master, to elect 
 the persons wjio shall appear to them to be best qualified. 
 
 Eight to be admitted every year, during the first four years, till the number of thirty-two 
 shall be complete, and tliis number to be for ever continued, by successive elections in the 
 manner hereinafter mentioned ; but the electors not to be bound to admit any candidate 
 who shall not appear to them to be properly qualified, and no candidate to be admitted of 
 a more advanced age than fifteen years. 
 
 From the encouragement proposed to be given to the King's scholars, it is probable that 
 the best scholars from the different schools of this kingdom will obtain admission as King's 
 scholars at the first election, and that, therefore, at t!ie end of tlie first four years the 
 University part of the scheme may probably commence. 
 
 It is therefore proposed that at the end of the first four years from the time of the 
 election of tlio first set of King's scholars, a public examination should be bad of the King's 
 scholars of the upper form by the examiners before mentioned, and also by two Fellows of 
 the University of Dublin, to be appointed by tlie Provost, or, in his absence, tlie Vice- 
 Provost and Senior Fellows, being sworn as aforesaid. The expense of the said Fellows to 
 be defrayed out of the Funds of the University. 
 
 That such examination shall be had in Greek and Latin, and that compositions in prose 
 and verse in those languages shall be delivered in by eacli of tiie caiulidates on subjects to 
 be proposed by the examiners. 
 
 'that four of the persons best qualified shall be elected by the said examiners, or by a 
 majority of them, tlie bead master to have the casting voice in case ol an ecjuality of votes, 
 and shall be called King's students, and shall be admitted as sucii into tlie University of 
 Dublin on producing the certificate of their election, signed by three of the electors. In 
 like maimer four to be examined and elected annually. The electors not to be l)()iind to 
 choose any candidate who shall not appear to tliem to be well qualified. 
 
 As the King'students may be jiresunied to come to the University much better prepared 
 than tliose who come from other schools, it is proposed rluit they should enter late in the 
 class wliich ends in .luly, and be of a year's .standing shortly after their entrance; and tliat 
 they should not lose a class by not answeiing an examination in the first year, but that 
 they may have it in their power to answer an examination in that year if they shall choose 
 to do so. The election of King's students should be early in the iiionth of May. 
 
 The unsuccessful candidates no longer to remain King's scliolars. That the succession 
 of King's scliolars sliould not be internijited ; and in the places of them, and of the four 
 successful candidates, ciglit new King's scholars to be elected at the time of tlic year 
 aj)puinted for that purpose.
 
 Second vcar's 
 
 yy 
 
 <s 
 
 Third year's 
 
 ., 
 
 12 
 
 P'ourtli year's 
 
 ;y 
 
 l(i 
 
 Fifth year's 
 
 »» 
 
 20 
 
 Sixth year's 
 
 f> 
 
 24 
 
 Seventh year's 
 
 J) 
 
 28 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 349 
 
 The successfnl candidate, or Kins^'s student, to receive £30 yearly for seven years from Report of Cummis- 
 the time of his election, if he shall so long continue a member of the University, unless he xioneTnoflnnhEduca- 
 shall obtain a Fellow.slii]), on wliicli event his studi'ntsbi]) is to be vacated. '"" "^^L— 
 
 Tlie King's students shoidd be at liberty to go in lor si-]iolar.ships on the foundation of 
 the Univ(!rsitv, and to enjoy them, and every other College emolument, together witli 
 their i'30 yearly; and they, as well as the select hereinafter mentioned, may Ije candidates 
 for the l''ellow.ships of tiie University, but on their success should relinquish their places 
 of King's students, or select King's students. 
 
 Tlic ])roposed sciieme may be better understood by stating to your Excellency the detail 
 of the manner of carrying it into execution, and the ])articulars of the exjiense. 
 
 At tlie end of four years from the time of o])ening the school, four King's students to be 
 admitted into the Lliiivcrsity, at £.'jO yearly each. 
 
 First year's expense for 4 King's students, . . . - . £120 
 
 240 
 
 ;^G0 
 
 480 
 
 GOO 
 
 720 
 
 840 
 
 The sum of £840 is the bigliest annual amount of the expense of King's students in the 
 University, wbicli cannot amount to that sum till after the expiration of eleven years from 
 the time of opening the school. 
 
 After tlie King's students shall have taken their decrees of Bachelor of Arts, we beer 
 leave to propose to your Ivvceliency that a new subject of encouragement and emulation 
 should bo opened to them, allowing them a sufficient interval for preparation. They may 
 take tlieir degrees in three years and one month after their becoming members of the 
 University, supposing this to Jiavc happened before the close of the class in tlie month of 
 July, and if so, tiiey may commence Bachelor of Arts at the summer commencements in 
 .July. Tlic examination and election of select students is proposed to be in the month of 
 May following, according to the following jilan : — 
 
 Ou the first Monday in the said month of May a public examination to be had in the 
 College Hall, by the J'rovost and Senior Fellows, of such of the King's students as shall 
 have taken Bachelor's degrees, and as shall oft'er themselves as candidates, which shall 
 continue for four days, from eight to ten in the morning, and from two to four in the after- 
 noon of each of those days. The examination on the first day, in the morning, to be in 
 Greek and Latin Epic poetry ; in tlie afternoon, in the Greek and Eoman orators. On 
 the second day, in tlie morning, in tlie Greek Drama and Kom.aii satirists : in the after- 
 noon, in the Greek and lloman historians. On tlie third day, in the morning, in Englisji 
 prose ; in the afternoon, in English jioetrv. The examination to be critical, with a ])ar- 
 ticular attention to the stylo and distinguislied excellencies of the several authors winch 
 shall be the subject of examination, autl to comprehend an investigation into the nature 
 and history of each language, its peculiar excellencies and defects, and its gradations in 
 improvement or decline. x\nd that the characters of the examiners, as well as the candi- 
 dates, should be more at stake, it is recommended that the M'hole of the examination should 
 be in English. Ou the fourth day, in the morning, the candidates to write compositions 
 in Greek and Latin poetry and prose, on subjects to bo given by the examiners, and in 
 tlieir presence only ; and in the evening, in like manner, in English poetry and prose. 
 On the Monday following the examiners to assemble in the Hall of the University, and 
 there publicly each of them to swear, that he will elect into the place or places of select 
 King's student or students, without favour or ])rejudice, such of the candidates as shall 
 appear to him to be tlie best qualified, according to the best of his judgment. The 
 examiners shall then proceed to elect two, or (if there shall be more vacancies than two) 
 more persons out of the said candidates, to be select King's students, according to the 
 majority of votes : and in case of an equality of votes, the Provost, or in his absence, the 
 Vice-Provost, to have the casting voice. The electors not to be bound to elect if none of 
 the candidates shall appear to them to be properly qualified. 
 
 At the same time, in every succeeding year, the like examination and election to be had, 
 and two or more King's students, if more tiuui two shall, at the time of such examination, 
 happen to be vacant, to be elected. If this part of the scheme should be approved of by 
 your Excellency, we liumbly recommend to your Excellency that his Majesty may be moved 
 to make a new statute, directing that such examination aud election should be annually 
 had. 
 
 Each of the select King's students to have a salary of £50 yearly ; but as long as his 
 King's studentship shall continue, the salary of that to be continued as part of his £50 
 yearly, and to continue to hold his office for the term of seven years from the time of his 
 election into the place of one of the select, and no longer. At the end of the seventh 
 year he is to go out, and one of the King's students to be elected in the manner herein- 
 before mentioned to supply his place. 
 
 The select King's students to bo examiners at quarterly examinations ; aud previous to 
 their admission, to be sworn by the Provost faithiully to execute such academic duties as 
 shall be committed to their care.
 
 350 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Report of Commis- The annual exi)ense of select King's students will be as follows : — 
 nioners of Irish Educa- The first year of their election is supposed to take place at the conclusion of tlie fourth 
 twn Inqturn, 1791. ^^^^ ^^^^^_ ^j^^ Candidates had obtained King "<* studentships. 
 
 The salaries of two select King's students would be £100 3'early, but their salaries as 
 students are to be deducted for the first three years after their election into the places of 
 select King's students, and the same deduction for the same time is to be made from all 
 the succeeding select King's students. 
 
 For the first year, two select at £30 each, .... £40 
 
 ,, second year, four ,, ..... 80 
 
 third year, si.K ., 120 
 
 „ fourth year, full salary of two at £50 and six at £20, 220 
 
 fifth year, full salary of four at £50 aud sL\ at £20, . 320 
 
 ,, si.xth year, full salary of six at £50 and six at £20, . 420 
 
 „ seventh year, full salary of eight at £50 and six at £20, 520 
 
 At the end of this year the two select go out. The sum of £520 would be the highest 
 annual expense of select King's students, and would not take place till the expiration of 
 fifteen years from the time of electing the first King's scliolars, and at tliat period the 
 whole annual expense which the collegiate school would incur woidd be as follows : 
 
 In the school — Head master's salary, . . . £100 
 
 Under master, .... 80 
 
 Six a-ssistants at £40 each . . . 240 
 
 £420 
 
 Thirty-two King's scholars at £20 each. 640 
 
 £1,060 
 
 In the college — Twenty-eight King's students at £30 eacli, £840 
 Fourteen select King's students, eight at j ..-,(.. 
 £50 each, and six at £20 each. . . j' " 
 
 1,3G0 
 
 £2,420 
 
 The whole annual expense is £2,420, which sum, we apprehend, may be taken after the 
 respective deatlis or vacancies of the offices of the present possessors, from tlie incomes of 
 the schools of royal foundation,- that a competent sum would remain for those establish- 
 ments, and that they would receive no injury, but great improvement, from such defal- 
 cation. It is probable that before this plan could be carried into execution, sufficient sums 
 might arise by the vacancies of some of those schools to answer the exjjenses of this estab- 
 lishment ; if not, the deficiency, if supplied by his Majesty's letter and provided for by 
 the House of Commons, would, it is apprehended, be gratefully paid by the public. 
 
 As to the site of the school, we think that it should not be nearer to Dublin than about 
 thirty or forty miles, and not at a much greater distance ; that it should be on the banks 
 of a large river ; that it should not be in, but should be within about a quarter of an 
 English mile from some neat, well-regulated town, where there may be proper accommo- 
 dations for the present ibr masters, assistants, and dames' houses, and for French, fencing, 
 and dancing masters, and where a temporary schoolhouse may be taken and the business 
 of the school carried on wliile the new seminary shall be ]n-eparing. 
 
 P^or this purpose about fifty Irish acres should be purcliased, situate as before mentioned. 
 Here the schools, and the assistants" and dames' houses should be erected ; for the latter 
 rent should be paid. The masters to have a jurisdiction within this district as to all matters 
 relating to their scholars or schools, with a power of administering oaths in all such cases ; 
 and the magistrates of the neighbouring towns to be enjoined by a law, to be made for 
 that ])urpose, to enforce the requisitions of the masters, or of cither of them, in every thing 
 that shall not relate to the discipline of the said school and the government of the scholars. 
 
 The Hoard of Control to superintend the government of the said school, and finally to 
 settle all disputes and differences that may arise therein. 
 
 The following advantages are exjiected from the scheme proposed : — 
 
 In the now school the learned languages would he well tauglit; young men would 
 acquire the habit of composing with ease and elegance; the liabit of composition would 
 make them read the ])rincipal authors with greater skill, ease, and attention; and reading 
 in that manner would improve their composition, and both together would estabh.sh an 
 accurate critical classical taste in tiiis gicat school. 
 
 This school would become the model of the other schools in this kingdom, and it will 
 be in the power of the Board of Control to ])romotc tliis propensity by directing that the 
 course of education adopted in this school should bo exactly followed ifi the several schools 
 under their managomout. The Governors of Smiths Schools should also direct the masters 
 of their grammar schools to follow the same method, particularly in the great school of 
 Drogheda. 
 
 On the death of the late master it would have been highly us(!l'ul if a successor and 
 assistant to him had been appointed, who had been educated in one of the groat Eiighsh 
 
 * Tills, wliich i.s an increafiinK fund, nmounts at present to tlie annual sum of X.l.oas 17s. Zht. XI. .",00 yearly 
 K supposed tu he .siil'.lcieiit tortile support of llie Royal Schools, wliieli would leave an ample fuiid fortlie payment 
 of tlii» annual e.\p',iiB" of X2,120.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 351 
 
 schools, and had acted as master or assistant there. Tlic governors have heen at great He/ioti of Cummin- 
 expense in salaries to masters and ushers, and in purchasing a large house and play-field. '''""",'' jl^,iin''fv^\'^' 
 Tlie school v/oiild have been well worthy of tlic acceptance of sucli person as we have ' 
 
 described, and might have been one of the most eligible situations for the site of a collegiate 
 scliool, if a new establishment I'or that purpose sliould not be preferred. 
 
 The University should also endeavour to have the same course followed in the great 
 scliool of Kilkenny, which is in their gift. 
 
 It is not doubted tliat the I'riniato would direct the same regulations to be observed in 
 the great school of Armagh, and it miglit hereafter bo found not to be difficult to provide 
 the means of connecting some of those schools witli tlie University, in a manner similar to 
 that recommended as to tlic now school, which would increase the number of King's scholars. 
 King's students, and select students, and extend the benefits of the scheme. Among the advan- 
 tages which our University will derive from it, the increase of tlie number of examiners at 
 quarterly examinations ouglit to be mentioned, who are now so inadequate to the number of 
 those examined, which has been, in one instance, between five and six hundred, as to have 
 much lessened the advantage of that excellent institution ; but the greatest advantage 
 which will attend a scheme of this nature remains to be mentioned — it will raise the 
 spirits and invigorate the exertions of the rising generation to see that education is become 
 an object of jjublic attention and sohcitude in Ireland ; and that by the cheering counte- 
 nance of royal favour and protection it is to receive legislative encouragement and support. 
 
 Schools of Euasmus Smith. 
 
 The schools of Erasmus Smith, though originating in the intentions of a private indivi- 
 dual, yet, from the repeated interpositions of the Legislature and of the Crown, may be 
 now considered as public institutions. 
 
 The establishment was first made by a charter of King Charles II., in the twentv-first 
 year of his reign. The objects were afterwards enlarged by an Act of Parliament jiassed 
 in the year 1724. 
 
 The funds for tlie support of those schools are from the rents of lands, which, on the 1st 
 May, 1789, were let for £3,471 9s. 8i. yearly; which sum, by an increase in the rents, is 
 now raised to £4.249 4.?. \Qd. yearly ; and at the determination of a lease which will expire 
 on the 1st of May, 1798, there will be an annual increase of £500 or £600 more. 
 
 Tlie debts due to the Governors of the said schools on the 1st of May, 1 789, which debts 
 are for arrears of rent, and are deemed recoverable, amount to £3,753 65. 2d. ; and at the 
 same period there was a balance in the treasurers hands of £1,839 195. S^d. 
 
 Tlie said Governors owe the sum of £1,000, upon which an interest of six per cent, is 
 payable. 
 
 The annual disbursements are at present £2,&1S \S,s. The surplus, therefore, is 
 £1,430 6.9. 10(^. yearly. 
 
 On this establishment there are four grammar schools, namely, at Drogheda, Tipperary, 
 Galwa}-, and Ennis. 
 
 1. To the grammar school at Drogheda the Governors have been very liberal, and the 
 success had in a great measure rewarded tlieir endeavours, tlie school having been, for 
 many years past, of considerable celebrity, with one radical defect, common to most of the 
 schools in this kingdom — a total neglect of composition. The number of boys was 1 <!3 ; 
 seventy-two of them were boarders, and fifty-one day scholars. Of the latter, between 
 twenty and thirty were free scholars. 
 
 The Governors have been very Uberal to this school in granting a salary of £250 to the 
 master, though the charter limits the salary to be granted to every schoolmaster to 100 
 marks yearly. A second house and play-field had been purchased for the master, in the 
 year 1780, for £1,170, and the sum of £200 was also allowed towards putting the said 
 house in repair, and afterwards a further sum of £270 for nevr roofing — the master, Dr. 
 Norris, having alleged that the sum allowed for repairs was not sufficient for that purpose. 
 Without meaning to condemn that gentleman, we think it our duty to observe the 
 expediency of subjecting the masters to dilapidations, if the schoolhouses should, by any 
 voluntary neglect of theirs, fall into decay. The house of tlie head usher had also been 
 enlarged, at an expense of £300, and will now receive fifty boarders. 
 
 From the large sums already expended on this establishment, the great accommodations 
 provided for tlie master, the high character of tlie school,'' the salubrity of this situation, 
 and its convenient distance from the metropolis, we apprehend that a master trained in 
 the habits of composition, and following the Eton or Westminster course, might soon be 
 able to make this a great classical school. 
 
 The annual expense of this school, besides the amoimt of different grants made by the 
 Governors, which, in the last ten years, have amounted to the sum of £1.940. 
 
 2. The school in the town of Tipperary is accommodated V)ith an excellent house for 
 the schoolmaster, sufficient to contain eiglity boarders, with nearly five acres of very valuable 
 ground ; also with ten acres of ground and a good house for the usher, sufficient to contain 
 forty hoarders ; and though placed in a very convenient situation, and in a healthy and 
 plentiful country, and though the master and usher are acknowledged to be men of 
 abilities and good character, we arc sorry to be obliged to observe, from the very small number 
 of scholars (only five boarders and thirteen day scholars, of whom eleven are free scholars), 
 that the school has fallen in its character, and does not answer the expectations that may 
 
 * This p.ait of the Report was framed in the Ufetune of Dr. Korris, -.vho is since dead.
 
 352 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, CO:\LMISSION. 
 
 Keport ,</ Omimin- be justl}' formcil from the advantages before stated, and from the endeavours of the 
 
 !,imwr>i uf Irish Edm-a- Governors to make it a great school ; and we tliink it our duty to animadvert strongly on 
 
 turn n qutrij , , .) . ^j^^ conduct of the master, who had, in one instance, counteracted those endeavours, by 
 
 stipulating with his usher not to take any boarders without his consent, which stipulation 
 
 we conceive to be inconsistent with tlie duty of both. 
 
 Tlie obvious design of the Governors, in giving the master a house capable of containing 
 eighty boarders, was holding out tlie greatest pros])CCts of jirofit and advantage to the 
 exertions of the schoolmaster ; while the obvious tendency of the master's conduct was to 
 decrease tlie school, by declaring a dislike to scholars. This case shows the necessity of 
 regular visitors; for it cannot be supposed that, if tliis school had been regularly examined 
 by persons properly qualified and empowered, that such a contract could ever have been 
 entered into, or at least Jiave Iieen so long continued. 
 The expense of this school is £120 yearly. 
 
 3. Under the present circumstances of tlie school at Galway. it diflers materially from the 
 other schools on this establishment, inasmucli as the scholars are all day scholars, and all 
 receive a gratuitous education : the master, the Rev. D. Y. Campbell, having, for tliese twenty 
 years past, voluntarily relinquislied all idea of advantage from his scholars, for the purpose, 
 as he stated to us. of extinguishing jealousies wliich sometimes took place between the 
 scholars for wliose education he was paid and the free scholars. 
 
 The yearly expense of the school, exclusive of the money expended on the buildings, 
 appeared to be £19S Ag.,~ so that the education of each boy in this granunar school did 
 not amount to £3 I.i)s. per annum. If, tiiercfore, the duty of instruction is, as has been 
 represented to us, properly performed by the present master, and the children properly 
 taught, the expense was certainly well disposed, and the establishment of much use to the 
 town of Galway. The schoolhouse being badly situated, and in other respects incon- 
 venient, tlie Governors have resolved to build a new schoolhou.se near the town, on a 
 better site. 
 
 4. The school at Ennis is a late establishment, is in liigh reputation, and very carefully 
 attended to. The buildings were erected in the yeaj- 1773, at an expense to the Governors 
 of £1,500. The Rev. Michael Fitzgerald, the pi-esent master, had fifty-six boarders and 
 twenty-four day scholars; of the latter, twelve were free scholars. We observe in all the 
 grammar schools on this establislimcnt the Governors have granted salaries to the school- 
 masters exceeding the sixty marks allowed by tlie charter — the salaries granted to each 
 schoolmaster of these schools, Drogheda exce])tcd, being £100 yearly. 
 
 By the charter the Governors pay yearly to Trinity College £30 for a Hebrew lecturer; by 
 the Act of Parliament which passed in the year 1 724, and which disposes of tlie surplus, the 
 Governors pay yearly to the said college for twenty exhibitions at £8 each ; fifteen exhibi- 
 tions at £6 each, and for three new fellowships, created by the said Act. at £'33 G*. 8rf. 
 eacli ; and for two professorships at £35 each, one i'or oratory and liistory, tlie other for 
 natural and experimental philosophy, at which lectures the pensioners and exliibitioners of 
 Erasmus Smith are to be taught gratis. 
 
 Thus the annual grant to the college was raised to £450. In the year 17G2, as appears 
 by tlie registry book of the board, upon a memorial of the Provost and Senior Fellows of 
 Trinity College lieing read, a lurther annual sum of £425 was ordered to be jtaid to the 
 Bursar of tiie said college for professors in tlie mathematics, oriental tongues, oratory, and 
 history, with their respective assi.stants, agi-eeable to the said memorial, suliject to such regu- 
 lations or alterations as tlio Provost and Senior Fellows shall from time to time tliink proper 
 to make, with the consent and appi-obation of that board. Afterwards, in February, 1703. 
 a further order was made by the said Governors for allowing an additional sum of £()5 
 yearly to a ]n-oiessor of philosopliy. Tlie allowance to Trinity C ollege was thus gradually 
 augmented to £940, which sum is distributed in the following manner: — 
 
 To tiiree fellows, at £33 C.b^ 8c;., . . , . £100 
 
 To twenty exhibitions for poor scholars, at ,i'8, 
 
 To fifteen do. do. at t'G, 
 
 Professor of mathematics and two a.ssistants, 
 
 Professor of oriental tongues, in which is included £30 for- 
 merly appointed for a Hebrew lecturer, and t^vo assistants, 140 
 
 Professor of oratory, in which is included £35 formerly aji- 
 pointed for a lecturer in history, oratory, anil one iissistaiit. 
 
 Professor of history and one assistant. 
 
 Professor of natural and experimental philosophy, in which 
 is included £35 formerly appointcil for the lecturer. 
 
 In tlic above statement, as extracted from the said registry book, a reference is made to 
 a memorial of the Provost and Senior Fellows of Trinity College, of wliich niemoiial no 
 trace whatever ajipears, either among the pajiers of the hoard or in the records of Trinity 
 College ; and Mr. Cooper, then and now register of the said board, stated to us, upon his 
 examination, that he did not remember to have seen sucli a memorial. 
 
 It appeared to us, from tlic examination of Dr. Jlurray, the Vice-Provost of the said 
 
 * Tliis sum includes £120. being tlie snlarifs of tlie master and uslier, together with X.^0 Is., hcinp the amount 
 of ronts rceeivcil by the master for sonie .■'Ii<ii)k iiiiil collars ;iilj( iniii,' tlio schoolhouse; as aL^^oilS 3s., being a prolit 
 real gained by him upon 33 aeres of land wliieh he holds from the Governors. 
 
 100 
 
 
 
 
 
 <)0 
 
 
 
 
 
 no 
 
 
 
 
 
 120 
 
 
 
 120 
 
 
 
 100 
 
 
 
 £940 
 

 
 : DOCUMENTS. 353 
 
 Collogo, that the said cxhiI)itions are rocjularly filled up as vacancies Ijappcn, and that a if,.i„„t nfCummU- 
 duc preference is given to the scholars tiiat have heen educated on the foundation of li'nurx of Irish Kilucu- 
 Erasmus Smith, and that they are allowed chambers in the college according to the direc- '"'" ^"'f'^J' ■'"'• 
 tions of tlic act above mentioned. 'J'he fcllowsbijis have been created and continued as " 
 
 the said act directs. 
 
 The professors, with their assistants, act conformably to the regulations laid down for 
 their conduct by the jjrovost and senior fellows. Hut we beg leave to observe that wliatcver 
 regulations they may be subject to by the rules of the college, as to the manner, the times of 
 their holding lectures, or the particular olyects and tendency of their respective courses of 
 instruction, no such regulations have been communicated to the Governors, althou<rh their 
 compliance in tliis form is part of the coin])act made by the college, the (iovcrnors having 
 at least reserved to themselves the power of consent and approbation in these instances; 
 and we also take n;)ticethat by the act which founded the lecturer of oratory and history, 
 and the lecturer of natural and e.\jierimental philosophy, it is directed that each lecturer 
 shall publicly read in every year four lectures, and lay two of them before the Governors, 
 to be printed and ]nil)lished at the discretion of the board ; M-hich direction, though com- 
 [)lied with formerly, lias of laie years been neglected, except that two ]jrelections from 
 l)r. Kearney, the lecturer of oratory and history, were exhibited to the board on the 18th 
 February, 1790. 'llie ])resent ])rofcssors in those Ijranches, being men of learning and distin- 
 guished talents, the publication of tlieir lectures would be useful ; and we beg leave to recom- 
 mend that tlie Governors should call upon those gentlemen for two lectures in each of those 
 branches yearly, and cause them to be printed and published. Wc also think that the 
 business of teaching and instructing in those branches is the duty of the professor as M'ell 
 as of his assistants, and we recommend that regulations for conducting the said several 
 professorships, comprehended within the order of the 1st jVovember, 1 762, .should be settled 
 by the said Governors with the provost and senior fellows; and we are of opinion that the 
 provost and senior fellows should give every assistance in their power to promote the 
 success of the said lectures by having a lending library for the use of such .students as 
 attend those professorships, and by encouraging their proficiency by granting medals and 
 rewards to the most deserving.* 
 
 Among the institutions of this corporation one charter school has been established, which 
 is situated contiguous to the town of Sligo, where a large house has been erected for that 
 purpose, and fifteen acres of land provided for the use of a school, and £250 yearly granted 
 for its support. This charter school is in very great disrepute, not having been well taken 
 care of, and having produced no public advantage. 
 
 The said Governors have also founded English schools at the following places, namely, 
 at Xelva, in the island of Valencia, Neiiagh, Tcmplcderry, and Tarliert. There is no 
 schoolhouse at Templederry, but a school has been built lately at Tarbert, for which there 
 will be a demand of £300 and upwards. 
 
 The masters at each of these schools have a salary of £20 yearly : one of them, namely, 
 the school at Nenagh is, we are informed, used for the purpose of a grammar school ; and 
 we think it our duty to observe, that the two institutions of grammar and English schools 
 ought to be ke])t distinct. 
 
 The three schools of Droghcda, Tipperary, and Galway, Vidiich were established by the 
 charter, are by tlie said charter constituted fi'ee schools, for the teaching and instructing 
 twenty such poor children who shall dwell within two English miles of the said respective 
 schools, and all the children of the tenants of the said Erasmus Saiith, at what distance 
 soever. But we do not find any I'egulations for the admission of gratuitous scholars into 
 the schools upon tiiis foundation, which were afterwards established. 
 
 By the said Act of 1724, an agreement was made between the Governors of Elrasmus 
 Smith's Schools and the (iovernors of the Blue Coat Hospital. The former engaged to 
 grant £;iOO for an infirmary, and £.50 for bedding and furniture for twenty boys ; the 
 latter agree to support and educate, for ever, twenty boys, to be named by the Governors 
 of Erasmus Smith's Schools, who are to pay the expense of their maintenance at the rate 
 of the other boys educated in the Hospital, and £5 yearly to the schoolmaster, to which 
 has been added £.5 yearly to the mathematical master, for teaching eight boys, and the 
 said Governors arc to pay the apprentice fees. It has appeared to us, in evidence, that 
 this agreement has been properly carried into effect by the Governors of the Blue Coat 
 Hospital, and that the children of that charity are properly educated. 
 
 A perpetual rent-charge of £100 Irish currency is granted to Chi'ist's Hospital, in 
 London, by the charter; and a power being therein reserved to Erasmus Smith over the 
 moiety of the surplus which might at any period accrue, after the uses he had estabbsued 
 should be satisfied, the said Erasmus Smith did, by deetl, in his lifetime, assign that 
 moiety to Christ's Hospital for ever. The effect and operation of this deed were disputed ; 
 and after various correspondence and legal references, a compromise was eti'ected, and 
 Christ's Hospital relinquished their pretensions arising from the deed, on condition of 
 receiving a sum of £2,000, and exchanging the annuity from Irish to English currency. 
 
 This agreement was fulfilled and confirmed by an English Act of Parliament. 
 
 The oificers belonging to the Governors are three, namely, a treasurer, a register, and 
 
 an agent. 
 
 " At thudesire of the Goveniois of Era.-nms Smith's Scliools, regulations for the purpose? .ihove mentioned arc 
 now under the consideration of tlie provost and senior fellows, for tlie pm-pose of laying the same before the saij 
 (iovcrnors for their concmrence; and tlic provost and senior fellows have dii-eeted that such a lending library 
 sliould be procured, and that rewards should be given to sueli of the students who appeared to the prutessors to 
 bo most deserving. 
 
 Vol. II. 2 Z
 
 354 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSIOIS'. 
 
 r Report of Commis- The treasurer seems to, be considered by the charter as the officer principally confided 
 tioners of Irish Educa- in ; his presence, if able to attend, being made necessary in most of the important business 
 tton Ini/uiri/,\-9\. of the Governors ; and by the care of the pr-sent treasurer, considerable benefit appears 
 to us to have been derived to this charity. His accounts should, by the charter, be 
 settled annually, and laid before the Governors, but neither his accounts, nor those of his 
 predecessors, were legally passed from 1770 to 1788. This irregularity has been owing 
 to the difficulty of procuring the attendance required by the charter, and not to any 
 omission on the part of the treasurer, wliose accounts have always been prepai-ed, and 
 ready to be laid before the Governors, and who has had no part of the money in his hands, 
 the same having been paid and received by the agents, and there having been no surplus 
 till very lately for many years past. The accounts are now passed and approved of ; and 
 during the incumbency of the present treasurer the estates have been raised from 
 £2,77^2 10s. Id. to £4,249 4s. lOt^. yearly. 
 
 The register is appointed by the charter, with a salary of £10 a-year; but a power 
 having been vested in the Governors of increasing it, it has been raised to £50. He may be 
 considered as the secretary of the Hoard, and enters in a book, kept for that purpose, the 
 several orders and proceedings of the Governors. 
 
 The agent is not mentioned in the charter, but is an officer who was early appointed ; 
 sometimes he has received Gd. in the pound, sometimes 1.9. in the pound, according to the 
 different regulations of the Governors. Mr. John Cooper was appointed register and agent 
 on the 2(ith March, 1756, and Mr. Samuel Cooper joined with him in the said offices on 
 the 20th February, 1784, upon their giving security of £2,000 for the faitliful performance 
 of their trust. The salary is £50 per annum, and Is. in the pound on the routs. Tliey 
 appear properly qualified tor tlieir duty by their known and tried character and abilities. 
 
 The Governors have taken care to apply, and in our opinion usefuUy, the surpluses 
 which have from time to time accrued over the annual expenditure. 
 
 They paid to Christ's Hospital, London, £2,000 for their claim to the whole surjdus 
 above the original cstabHshment of the cliarter, according to a deed of Erasmus Smith ; 
 and the expenses of a private Act of Parliament for securing the agreement. The Gover- 
 nors purcliased the Kilpatrick estate, which at present lets for £3 '^5 10s. 3d. a-year, for 
 £9,600, and the rent-charge on BallywilUam, of £25 a-year, for £550 ; they paid for 
 building and repairing the granunar scliools at Drogheda, Tipperary, Galway, and Ennis, 
 and the two English schools at Xelva and Nenagh ; and they granted £2,500 for erecting 
 the theatre in Trinity College. 
 
 The Governors do not appear to us to have incurred any unnecessary expense ; and 
 upon the whole, we are of opinion that this trust has been executed with fidelity to the 
 designs of the founder, and that great care has been taken in managing the funds and 
 estates of the charity. 
 
 The present annual surplus is £1,430 6s. IQd. to which may be added £60 yearly, being 
 the interest paid by the said Governors for the sum of £1,000 borrowed by tliem at six per 
 cent., if that sum sliould be paid oft' out of the money in tlieir hands, as also the annual 
 sum produced by the money now at interest. This surplus will, on the expiration of a 
 lease which will determine on the 1st of May, 1798, be increased £500 or £600 a-year, 
 and may, if the Governors think proper, be applied to the support of a professional 
 academy, the outlines of which we now proceed to lay before your Excellency. 
 
 Professional Academy. 
 
 We beg leave to submit to your Excellency our ideas on the establishment of a profes- 
 sional academy, or academics, for the following purposes ; — to instruct young persons in 
 mathematical learning, and the several branches of science immediately connected with 
 it ; to initiate them in the principles of chemical knowledge, with its ajipHcation to arts 
 and manufactures ; to direct their inquiries into natural history ; to prepare soldiers, sea- 
 men, and merchants, in the business of their respective departments ; to give a general 
 account of tlie manners, customs, and governments of different nations, with a sliort abstract 
 of tlieir liistory; and to teach some of the modern languages, particularly French, Italian, 
 and German. 
 
 {Ji the utility of such a school we entertain the highest expectation, from the success of 
 the Dundee Academy, founded on similar principles. 
 
 The different branches of education whicli we recommend to be tauglit in those schools 
 are as follow : — 
 
 1. Arithmetic in all its liranches, and book-keeping, 
 
 2. Fir.st class of matlicmatics, comprehending the elements of Euclid, plane trigonometry, 
 and practical geometry, including mensuration, surveying, and gauging. 
 
 3. Second class of mathematics, comprehending tlie elements of spherics, spherical 
 trigonometry, algebra, conic sections, and fluxions. 
 
 4. (Jeography and navigation. 
 
 5. Drawing, perspective, fortification, and architecture. 
 G. Cliemistry and natural philosopliy. 
 
 7. Natural philosopliy, containing tiie elements of mechanics, hydrostatics, pneumatics, 
 liydraulics, optics, magnetism, electricity, and astronomy. 
 
 8. French, Italian, and German. 
 
 9. A general account of the progress of navigation and commerce, and of the manners, 
 customs, and governments of different nations, with a sliort abstract of their history. 
 
 Instruments should be provided for explaining the practical parts of geometry, geogra-
 
 DOCUMENTS. 355 
 
 phy, and navigation, with an apparatus for illustrating the principles of chemistry and /Icpon of Commis- 
 natural pliik).sop]iy. *'""'''}"{f[^'''^ ■':''"'"'' 
 
 From tlie experience of the Dundee Academy, three years have heen found necessary ""' " '""■'' 
 for passing through the above-mentioned classes in the following order: — The first, for 
 attending French, arithmetic, book-keeping, and tlie first class of the mathematics; the 
 second year, drawing, perspective, geography, navigation, and the second class of the mathe- 
 matics ; and the third year, for arcliitecture, fortification, chemistry, natural history, and 
 natural pliilosopliy ; and an account of the progress of navigation and commerce, and of the 
 manners, customs, and governments of difterent nations, with a short abstract of their 
 history. 
 
 To those who have passed tlirough other schools where some of the aho've-mcntioned 
 branches are taught, it is apprelicnded tliat one of the said years may be saved ; and it is 
 recommended tliat liberty should be given to attend any of the courses independent of 
 the rest. 
 
 To this professional academy it is proposed that 100 eleemosynary scholars should be 
 admitted. 
 
 The whole yearly expense of this establishment we estimated at £2,100. 
 
 If the Governors of Erasmus Smith's Scliools should think proper to appropriate the sur- 
 plus of their funds to the su])port of tiiis academy, we tliink it just that the entire govern- 
 ment of tlie same, and also tlie patronage, namely, the appointment of the masters, ushers, 
 and gratuitous scholars, should belong solely to the said Governors. 
 
 One establishment of tiiis nature will, at first, be sufficient ; and if the experiment suc- 
 ceeds, one more may be founded ; the success of the first should give encouragement to 
 found another similar establishment, and if this should not be rendered unnecessary by 
 private undertakings on the same model, which we think highly probalde, and the masters 
 of all the academics in tlie kingdom wlio profess to quahfy boys for the military, naval, and 
 commercial lines, would adopt the metliod practised in the professional academy. 
 
 Two public institutions have been already founded connected with the army and navy, 
 they are as follow : — 
 
 The Hibernian School foi; Soldiers' Children. 
 
 The Hibernian Society, in Dublin, for maintaining, educating, and apprenticing the 
 orphans and children of non-commissioned officers or soldiers in Ireland, was incorporated 
 by charter in the ninth year of the reign of his present Majesty. A house and chapel have 
 been built by Parliamentary grant. The house would accommodate children. The 
 
 annual income, upon an average of seven years to the year 1788, was £2,514 16s. lO^d, 
 of which sum £1,000 washy Parliamentary grant, which yielded, net, £970; a like sum by 
 King's letter; the sum of £215 lis. Id., by the produce of a nursery of trees, of four 
 acres, adjoining the house ; £32 5s., by the sale of kitchen stuff, dry cows, butter, &c. ; 
 and the remainder, namely, £32G 13s. 5^'i., arose from legacies, collections at the chapel, 
 subscriptions, and otiicr donations. There are at present 260 children — boys and giii — 
 at the school, which is rather a greater number than the funds will support ; but the 
 governors are in expectation of receiving a legacy of £3,000, bequeathed to this charity 
 by Mr. Waddell. Each child cost, upon an average of the whole expenditure for the last 
 seven years, to 1778, the sum of £12 3s. Sid., annually, of which sum£l 6s. Id., annually, 
 for each child, was produced by the sale of the trees, dry cows, &c. ; and the remainder, 
 namely, £10 17s. 1UI-, is the entire charge to the public, annually, for each child. 
 
 Tlie children are admitted from seven to twelve years of age. The boys are maintained, 
 and taught the principles of the Protestant religion, to read, write, cypher, and to work 
 in the garden. They are apprenticed, with fees of £5 each. The girls read, write, cypher, 
 knit, &.C., and are apprenticed with fees of £3 10s. each. 
 
 Hibernian Marine School. 
 
 The Hibernian Marine Society was incorporated by charter in the fifteenth year of the reign 
 of his present Majesty, for maintaing, educating, and apprenticing the orphans and children 
 of decayed seamen in the navy and merchant service. The society, as the charter recites, 
 were enabled, with the bounty of Parliament, to build a house in the city of Dublin, near the 
 eea, capable of receiving 200 children. The number of boys annually maintained in tlois 
 school, upon an average of four years, to the year 1 788, was about 150. The annual expen- 
 diture of the society, upon a like average, was £1,729 7s. 3c?. The expense of each boy, 
 therefore, for that period, was £ 1 1 9s. G|(/. yearly. This charity is supported by an annual 
 Parliamentary grant of £1,000 ; by the interest of £4,000, bank stock, bought with their 
 savings ; and by legacies, subscriptions, and other casual donations. The boys are not 
 usually admitted till nine years of age. They are maintained and instructed in the prin- 
 ciples of the Protestant religion, reading, writing, accounts, and navigation. When they 
 are well versed in the theory of navigation, they are apprenticed to'seafaring men, and 
 have each £3 worth of necessaries provided for them. 
 
 We think this charity, which is managed with due economy, highly useful to the public, 
 and that the funds ought to be increased, so far, at least, as to enable the governors to 
 maintain as many children as the building wiU accommodate, which is fifty more than the 
 number at present iu the school. 
 
 Vol. TI. 2 Z 2
 
 35G ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Bqiorl uf Cummis- IIoSPITAL OF KiNG ChARLES II., IN Dl'BLIN. 
 
 n,ynerso/lrU,£durn- ^j^j^ hospital, commonlv cnllcd the Blue Coat Hospital, was established by a charter of 
 
 King Charles II.. in the twenty-third year oi ms reign. 
 
 In this hosijital 1 20 boys arc maintained and instructed in the principles of the Protestant 
 i-eligion, reading, writing, and aritlinietic, and some of them are taught mathematics and 
 drawing. They arc admitted at eight or nine years of age. and are put out at the age of 
 fourteen, with apprentice fees to Protestant tradesmen. The annual income, upon an 
 average of the last tliree years, was £1,827 8s. (id. Tlie annual expenditure, upon a like 
 average, was £ 1,899 0,f. lOri, which is at the rate of £15 lO.s. (Jd. for eacli boy. Anew 
 hospital, chapel, and sehoolliouse was erected by the governors of this charity a few years 
 since, at an e.vpense of £21.294, wliicli has involved tlicni in debts to tlie amount of £4. 000 
 and upwards. If a wing, which is still wanting to the building, sliould be erected, there 
 would be accommodation in this hospital, which is a place of excellent instruction, for 300 
 boys. 
 
 Protestant Chaktek Schools. 
 
 One public institution more remaining to be mentioned, long and justly the favourite of 
 the public, and the object of great national encouragement, we mean the Protestant 
 Charter Schools. 
 
 Thev were instituted by a grant or charter of the late King, bearing date the 24th 
 October, 1733, wliich charter, after reciting a petition of the Lord Chancellor, Primate, 
 Judges, &c., setting forth, " That in many parts of t'ais kingdom there were great tracts of 
 " land almost entirely inhabited by Papists ; that the generality of the Popish natives were 
 "kept by their clergy in gro.ss ignorance, and bred up in great disafl'cction to the Govern- 
 "ment ; that the erecting Protestant Ciiarter Schools in these places would bo absolutely 
 '• necessary for their conversion and civilization ; that the I'higlish parish schools were not 
 " sufficient for that purpose, and that the residence only of tlie ])arochial clergj- could not 
 " fully answer the end;" and reciting further, '• That to the intent, therefore, that the 
 " children of the Popish and other poor natives of Ireland, might be instructed in the 
 " English tongue, and the principles of true religion and loyalty," appoints the Lord Lieu- 
 tenant and some of the chief nobility, gentry, and clergy of the said kingdom, Commis- 
 sioners, with power to elect others in the room of their deceased members ; constitutes 
 them a corporation or body politic, by the name of the Incorporated Society in Dublin for 
 promoting English Protestant Schools in Ireland : inal-es the said society capable to receive 
 and enjoy in perpetuity, lands, &c., to the value of £2,000 per annum, and empowers the 
 said society to appoint, during their pleasui-e, schoolmasters and schoolmistresses (to be 
 approved and licensed by the archbishops and bishops respectively), to teach the children 
 of the Popish and other poor natives, the English tongue, reading, the principles of the 
 Protestant religion, writing, arithmetic, and other jmrts of learning, to bring them up in 
 virtue and industry, and to cause them to be instructed in husbandry and housewifery, 
 trades, manufactures, or in such like manual occupations ; the said society providing for 
 the poor childi'en, or for such of them as the said society shall tliink proper, all necessary 
 materials, utensils, desks, diet, clothes, and lodging, until the children are fit to be put out 
 to trades, services, or other employments; and to allow the said masters and mistresses yearly 
 salaries, together with the benefit of houses, gardens, fields, and other fitting accommoda- 
 tions; the said society, by the name aforesaid, to sue and be sued, and to have a common 
 seal ; to have a general meeting quarterly, or oftcner, and any seven to ho a quorum ; to 
 elect upon the first Wednesday in November, in every year, a president, vice-president, 
 treasurer, secretary, register, clerk, and such other officers and servants as they shall find 
 needful, who are all to be sworn ; to nominate fifteen of their own number to be a coni- 
 niitteo to meet in Dublin the first Jlonday in every month, or oftcner, for carrying into 
 execution the rules, orders, and directions of the said society; the treasurer to lay before the 
 society, the first Wednesday in November, yearly, an account of receipts and disl)urscincnts; 
 the said society, at their quarterly meetings, to make rules, &c., to be approved by the 
 primate, one of the said archbishops, or one of the chief judges ; leases to be made only at 
 the said quarterly meetings, no lease to exceed three lives or thirty-one years in possession, 
 and without fine ; subscribers, being J'rotestants, to bo admitted into the society with a 
 proviso that tlie society shall not diminish their capital stock, but that they confine tiioir 
 expenses yeirly to such annual income, and to such money, goods, &c., as siiall from year 
 to year bo given to them, or the interests or profits thereof 
 
 Though we have thought it our duty to mention the recitals of this charter, we also 
 think it incumbent upon us to declare our opinion that no such disaffection, as is supposed 
 to have existed in the year 1733, docs at present exist in any description of his Majesty's 
 subjects in this kingdom. 
 
 The late lOarl of llanelagh, in the year 170-^, granted certain lands and tithes in the 
 counties of lioscommonand U'estmeath for the support of schoolsfor ever, f-r instructing Pro- 
 testant boys and girls at Athlone and lioscommon, which lands and tithes were by Act of Par- 
 liament in 1 700, vested in the Incorporated Society, wiio arc directed by the said act to pay 
 thereout, jjursuant to the directions of the donor, to the minister of Athlone and Koscommon 
 £20 per annum each, and to build one or more schoolhou.se or houses in or near Athlone, 
 and tlio same at Koscommon, for tlio rece[)tioii, maintenance, and education of so many 
 poor Protestant boys and girls, if such can be had conveniently, as tlie clear remaining 
 income will properly maintain and sui)i)ort. And tlie said act empowers the said society
 
 DOCUMENTS. 357 
 
 to make leases, for sixty-one years, of any part of the said lands, &c., in or near Atlilonc, IJeport nf c,mmU- 
 and for thirty-one years of the rest, at tlio best rent, and without fine, and to clioose a '''l^'ui'iif']:^''' 
 
 receiver to whom a salary of £20 ])er annum is to bo paid. _' 
 
 Th(! comniitteo of tiftcicn persons, cliosen annually by the society out of the subscribers, 
 carry into execution tiic dircc(ions of tlic society at largo. 
 
 This committee, tlirec of wliom make a <|uorum, meet at tlic society's liousc in Dtdtlin 
 once a week, or as oiten as is neccissary. Tlicy do not take any oatli upon tiieir appoint- 
 ment, the charter not giving any power or directions for that purpose. 
 
 Tliere are also local committees, composed of persons in tlie neigld)ourhood of the 
 res])ectivo schools, who are chosen by the committee of fifteen and \>y tlic board at large. 
 These local committees, wlio are not sworn, have the inunediate direction of tlie schools, 
 and arc re(|uired to make tlieir re])ort quarterly to the committee of fifteen. 
 
 And in aid of the local committees, and for tlie more careful instruction of the cliildren 
 in the Protestant religion, the society in May, 1787, appointed a clergyman in the neigli- 
 bourhood of each school to be visitor and catcchist, at a salary of £5 per annum, who is to 
 report monthly to the society. 
 
 Tlie funds ior the support of this institution amount to £20,105 17.s. 9|f/. yearly, and 
 arise from his Majesty's bounty, irom a large Parliamentary grant, and from the donations 
 of i)rivate benei'actors. 
 
 Each child in the charter schools and nnrseries cost the society, npon an average of 
 the whole expenditure for two years, to the '2'Jth September, 1790, the sum of £8 lis. d^d. 
 yearly. 
 
 The number of charter schools noiv subsisting which the society have established in 
 different ])arts of the kingdom is thirty-eight; as also four nurseries, three of which are 
 used for tlie reception of such children as are too young to be admitted into the charter 
 schools to which they are transplanted at a projier age ; and to the fourth, vvliich is at 
 Milltown, near Dublin, children are sent up from the charter schools who cannot get mas- 
 ters, and remain there till masters can be procured for them. 
 
 To these establishments are to be added two schools upon the Ranelagh foundation. 
 The number of children in the thirty-eight charter schools on the 29th September, 
 1790, was 1,455; of which number 918 were boys, and 538 were girls— who. by a late 
 regulation, are to be kept in separate schools. The number of children in the four 
 provincial nurseries at the same period was 203. We are also to add eighty children more 
 usually kept in the two schools on the Kanelagh foundation, namely — forty boys in the 
 school at Athlone, and forty boys in the school at lioscommon, making in the whole 1,798 
 children under the society's care. 
 
 We thought it our duty tg» lay before your lixcellency a copy of the Report of a 
 Committee of the House of Commons, appointed in the Session of 17S8, to inquire into 
 the state of the Protestant charter schools of this kingdom, which report contained (among 
 other evidence) the testimony of the late Mr. Howard relative to the state of the several 
 charter schools which ho had then visited ; and we beg leave to observe, notwithstanding 
 the miserable state of a great majority of the said schools, according to the said Mr. 
 Howard's testimony, yet it appears, from the said reports of the local committees from 
 forty of the said schools, that there are but three unfavourable, two of which are only so 
 in respect to the clothing of the children ; and that of the reports made from thirty-five of 
 the said schools, by the catechist visitors, there is but one unfavourable and one but partly 
 favourable, six of which last-mentioned reports arc in the year 1787, and the remaining 
 twenty-nine in the year 1788. 
 
 We also laid before your Excellency a copy of a report which we received from the said 
 Mr. Howard of the state of such of the said schools as he had since visited, together with 
 the observations and objections made, and the remedies proposed by that most worthy man, 
 to whose solicitude for this great national charity this kingdom is so highly indebted. 
 
 And we are concerned to take notice that it appears, from the said testimony and report 
 of this gentleman, who had visited the four nurseries and all the charter schools (two only 
 excepted), that in most of the said establishments the instruction, cleanliness, and health 
 of the children had been most grossly neglected ; that they had not been allowed sufficient 
 food, clothing, or other necessaries ; that in many of these schools they are half starved, 
 half naked, and covered with cutaneous disorders, the effects of filth and negligence, 
 wliile in some of those the children of the masters and mistresses appear fresh, clean, and 
 in good health. 
 
 This account of the wretched condition of these schools and nurseries is confirmed by 
 further evidence which we have taken upon oath, and also by the reports of some of us who 
 have visited several of the said schools and nurseries ; and, upon the whole, it appeared 
 that of all those establishments, being forty-i'our in number, not more than five or six were 
 properly taken care of Under these circumstances, it may well be imagined that the 
 admission of children into the charter schools cannot be an object of solicitation to tlieir 
 parents or friends, or that respectable persons should be induced to resort to these schools 
 for servants or apprentices. 
 
 Those great evils appear to us to have arisen — 
 
 1. From the allowance of about 2d. per day only for the maintenance of each child, which 
 was not sufficient for its support. 
 
 2. From a scheme, which has been found not to succeed, of having the clothes for the 
 children made in, and provided by contract, in Dublin. 
 
 3. From charges made upon the masters for the labour of the children, by which meaus
 
 358 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Jiepori of Commii- the masters M'ere induced to devote too much of the children's time to labour, and to pay 
 ihnersof IrishEduca- little attention to thcir instruction in readiiijr, writiner, arithmetic, and the princii)lcs of the 
 I L Christian rehgion. 
 
 4. From the ignorance, gross neglect, and frauds of the masters and mistresses. 
 
 5. From the inattention and neglect of many of the local committees, and from thcir 
 unsatisfactory, inaccurate, and false reports, and from the want of visitors, or a sufficient 
 control and inspection. 
 
 6. From the want of infirmaries, and due attention to the construction of the buildings 
 to the preservation of the healtli of the children. 
 
 7. From the number of the charter schools being greater than the funds vrere sufficient 
 to support. 
 
 For the first, the committee of fifteen who transact the business of the corporation 
 applied as a remedy, pending the inquiry before the Committee of the House of Commons, 
 the raising of tlie allowance for the food of each child to 2\d., and afterwards to 2d., for 
 each day, to which remedy we beg leave to recommend the enforcing a strict observance 
 of a dietary, and of rules to be established for the better preservation of the health of the 
 children. 
 
 And the second we are informed that they have endeavoured to remove by rescinding 
 that contract, and supplying the children with proper clothing, made in the neighbourhood 
 of the schools. We think, however, that a system of regulations shoidd be adopted as to 
 the clothing and cleanliness of the children. 
 
 As a remedy for the third, we beg leave to recommend to the consideration of the 
 Incorporated Society that the charge for the labour of the children should be no longer 
 made, and that each school should be formed for a particular branch of industry — one for 
 the purpose of husbandry, another for that of gardening, and another for a particular 
 manufacture, and the like. 
 
 If each school be adapted to one particular object in preference to various objects, greater 
 jjerfection in the particular branch may be expected.* 
 
 As a ])revention of the fourth, we recommend that the greatest attention should be had 
 in the choice of masters and mistresses, that therefore persons of qualifications superior to 
 those of the persons employed at present should be appointed ; that the master should be 
 qualified to teach the different branches of the mathematics applicable to the trades and 
 occupations for which the boys are destined ; that their salaries should be increased ; that, 
 previous to their appointment, they should obtain a certificate of their qualifications from 
 some one of the inspectors to be appointed in the mode hereafter proposed ; that they 
 shall enter into a bond of £ , with two sureties in £ each, for their good 
 
 behaviour and compliance with all the directions of tlie superintending powers ; that they 
 should act as secretaries and accountants to the local committees, and be allowed an 
 assistant in schools where the number of children exceeds fifty ; that they (the masters) 
 should take an oath to act faithfully as secretaries and accountants to the local committees, 
 and to make true returns to the board. 
 
 To remedy the fifth, the committee of fifteen have lately, in aid of the local committee, 
 appointed a clergyman in the neiglihourhood of each school to be catechist visitor, with a 
 salary of £5 yearly. We beg leave to recommend to the committee of fifteen that this 
 office should he made an object of more importance, and the salary increased to eight 
 guineas yearly, which may operate as an inducement to the persons (the neighbouring 
 curates) who generally hold tliat office, to be vigilant and attentive in the discharge of its 
 duties. The catechist visitors should be obliged to transmit a Report, according to a 
 printed form, quarterly, to the society, and for every omission in this instance he should 
 forfeit one quarter of his yearly salary. 
 
 Upon his appointment by the society ho should take an oath before the local committee 
 for the due performance of his duty, and regular attendance twelve times in every quarter, 
 unless prevented by sickness, or absent with leave of the society. 
 
 Tiie principal persons of both sexes in the neighbourhood of the schools should be 
 exhorted to be of the local committees. And we apiirehciul that to make the in.spoctioii 
 more easy, and to guard against those abuses, it would be useful to lessen the number of 
 such of the schools as are remote from considerable towns, and to enlarge, if necessary, 
 those which are in their neiglihourhood, and which can be more frequently viewed and 
 e.vamincd ; and this would be attended with the further advantage to the children of tlicir 
 being more readily bound out to proper masters, and of having their conduct as apiu-enticcs 
 bett(!r understood by the members of the local committees, by which means the success of 
 the institution would be more certainly understood. 
 
 And, as a remedy for the si.xtli, we arc of opinion that infirmaries should be built 
 adjoining to all tiic charter schools, and that a system of regulations should be adopted 
 with regard to the extension and improvement of schoolhouses, and also with respect to 
 rejiairs : first, as to temporary n pairs ; secondly, as to permanent repairs. 
 
 And with regard to the hist evil, wo beg leave to observe, that the society appear to 
 have bestowed more attention to the increase of the number of children maintained in tlie 
 
 • In nmny of the bcIuhiIs Dip boys nrc principally ciiiploycd in wcivins, spinniiif,', Ac. ; and if cngiigcd in !iny 
 work out of floors, they are employed as menial servants, and not in husbandry, winch lattiT mode of emplovMieiit 
 we conceive far preferable, .as occupations at tlieir tender ufje shouM be prellrred which lend to form ami strcnfithen 
 their constitutions, Buch as Mr. Howard rccommcnils in his report — namely, aijriculture when tlie situation allords 
 an o]>portunity, or planting and (^ardeninn, by cstablishitii,' nurseries, on the plan of that of the Hibernian School, 
 ucar JJublin, wliich may answer the double purpose of prolit and employ uieut.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 359 
 
 charter schools, than to the manner in which those children were maintained and educated. Rcpon o' CuvimU. 
 
 Thoysliould luivc pursued a system directly tiic reverse, as it must prove much more bene- ''•^^'"^''/■^'-'afiEduca- 
 
 iicial to society tliat a smaller numhor of children should he properly instructed and ''^" " ''""^ ' ' ' 
 
 clothed, lodged, and fed, in such a manner as must insure to them healthy and robust 
 
 constitutions, than that a greater number sliould be sent into the community labouring 
 
 under the disadvantages of a defective education and weak constitution. It is our opinion, 
 
 therefore, in which we are supported by the high authority of the; late Mr. Howard, that 
 
 these e.stablishmt^nts should be considerably reduced in nuinbor, and particularly tliat such 
 
 charter schools should be suppressed where there are diiliculties of superintending tliem, 
 
 of finding necessaries for tlio boys, and masters to take them apprentices. We beg leave 
 
 further to observe, tliat so many charter schools as exist at present will not be necessary 
 
 if parish schools are established on the proposed plan ; and we feel the less reluctance 
 
 in i)roposing a reduction in the number of charter schools, wlien we consider, that these 
 
 having been erected to supjdy tlie deficiency, or in aid of i)arish schools, need not be so 
 
 numerous if the parisli schools bo made efficient. 
 
 We arc of opinion that no children should be admitted into the charter schools under 
 the age of seven years, and that consequently the four provincial nurseries should be 
 abolished. Wo find our sentinacnts as to the suppres.'sion of these also confirmed by the 
 late J\Ir. Howard. The nurseries are intended to supjjly the charter schools with children. 
 When these are well fed, tauglit. and clothed, and appear to the public eye healthy and 
 clean, in good apparel, and in high spirits, as the children of the State ought to appear, 
 there seems to bo little doubt that there would be an abundant supply of children without 
 the assistance of these seminaries of infants, as poor persons of all descriptions will be 
 happy to send their children to places where their children are well clothed and fed, and 
 properly instructed. 
 
 The parents of all the children in those schools should have free access to them on 
 proper occasions, that they may be witnesses of their good treatment, and become attached 
 to an institution which at present many of the lower ordei-s are taught to hold in 
 abhorrence. 
 
 As these schools will, on the plan now proposed, become of a much superior nature to 
 parisli schools, it would be a great encourageuicnt to these, if a certain number of such of 
 the most promising boys from thence as might be received, consistent with the rules of the 
 charter school education, were to be recommended to tlie committee of fifteen, to be placed 
 on tliat foundation. 
 
 We are of opinion that every bequest to the society exceeding the value of £50 should 
 be placed out to interest, if the donor should nut direct any particular application of it. 
 We apprehend that by suppressing the remote charter schools, tlie annual grant to the 
 Incorporated Society may, after providing amply for the improvements which we have 
 suggested in the rest of those schools, be lessened in the sum of £1,924 annually ; which 
 sum we humbly propose should be granted every year towards the support of parish 
 schools ; and that, by abolisliing the four nurseries, there may be a further diminution in 
 the said grant of £1,900 yearly, which sum might be usefully applied, if Parliament would 
 grant it, towards the support of the diocesan schools. 
 
 Schools upon Private Charitable Foundations. 
 
 We now proceed to lay before your Excellency the state of the schools established upon 
 private charitable foundations, and to Report such remedies as appear to us to be proper 
 and necessary for tlie reformation of abuses therein, and to prevent the continuance and 
 repetition of the same. 
 
 These schools are of two sorts, namely, grammar and English schools ; and first, of — 
 
 Grammak Schools. 
 
 The schools of Navan and Pallyroan were founded by Alderman John Preston, of the 
 city of Dublin, who, in the year 1G8G, devised the lands of Cappaloughlin, in the Queen's 
 County, containing about 790 acres, which he then computed to be worth about £80 
 yearly and upwards, to certain persons, in trust, to pay an able master of the Protestant 
 religion, to be resident and living in the town of Navan, for his better encouragement and 
 maintenance, the yearly sum of £35 ; and to a like schoolmaster, to be resident and living 
 in the town of Ballyroan, for his better encouragement and maintenance, the yearly sum 
 of £25 ; and further, to pay the yearly sum of £20 to the Hospital founded by King 
 Charles II., in the city of Dublin, now known by the name of the Blue Coat Hospital. 
 These two schools have been kept as grammar schools. The grant, however, does not 
 enjoin their being of that description. 
 
 J\Ir. John Jones was appointed law agent and receiver for this estate about the year 
 1764. The lands, which have risen considerably in their value since the time of making 
 the grant, have been let at different times for diflerent rents; but it is singular,that after having 
 been let in the year 1705 at the yearly rent of £692 17.'--. ti^/., they should have afterwards 
 fallen, in the year 1 784, to so low a rent as £2 1 1 yearly ; till the Court of Chancery having inter- 
 fered, set aside the letting at that sum, and they are now let for a term of twenty-one jears, 
 from the year 17^-4, for £431 8.v. 9''/. yearly. We have endeavoured to find out the true 
 yearly value of tliese lands, and they have been reported to us as being worth 16.v. an 
 acre, which, for 790 acres, is £Ga2 yearly. It appears that a saving has accrued to the 
 funds of this charity of £1,270, of which sum £870 has been put to interest upon good
 
 360 
 
 EKDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSIOX. 
 
 Ile/iori nf Commis. securit}', and the romaiiulcr is in the hands of tlio said Mr. Jones, so tluit the present 
 ,wncr^nf Irish Educa- income of this ciiarity is as follows :_ 
 
 tion liiqinnj, 1791. 
 
 Annual rents of the lands, . 
 Interest of £870, at six per cent.. 
 
 In all, . 
 
 £431 8 Qi 
 52 4 O" 
 
 £483 12 
 
 i'2 
 
 Various suits, which have arisen under the will of the said Alderman Preston, respecting 
 the rii;ht of presenting to the said schools, and other matters relating chieflv to the trust, 
 which is still unsettled, jiave kept the afliiirs of this charity in the Court of Chancery above 
 fifty years; out of the funds of which there has, in tliat time, heen expended upwards of 
 £2,800 in tlie several litigations, which stron;;ly .sliows tlie necessity of a law for deter- 
 mining, in a more summary way, contests relative to schools. From the time that the 
 present law agent was appointed, those litigations appear to have been carried on princi- 
 pally under his advice, as from the unsettled state of the trust, and the several questions 
 arising respecting the persons in wliom the same is vested, none of the trustees were 
 enabled sufficiently to take upon themselves the management of the charit)'. We must 
 take notice that it has appeared to us that the sum of £2,348 19s-. 'd\il. of the rents arising 
 out of the said estate has been lost by the failui'e of tenants since the present agent has 
 been employed to manage it, independently of all costs of law proceedings, and tliat we 
 have not received sufficient satisfaction wliy sucli a loss was incurred, nor sufficient proof 
 that all proper means had been used for the recovery of the arrear. 
 
 In the year 1776 the laLo Lord Chancellor, in consequence of the great rise above men- 
 tioned in the value of the lands, ordered that the allowance to the two schools should be 
 increased, and tiie annual expenses of this foundation at present are as follow : — 
 
 Of the school at Xavan- 
 
 For the master, 
 „ usher, . 
 
 writing master. 
 
 Rents of a schoolhouse and land. 
 Premiums, .... 
 
 £ .S-. d. 
 
 105 
 
 40 
 
 15 
 
 38 10 
 
 4 11 
 
 £ s-. d. 
 
 203 
 
 1 
 
 Of the school at Ballyroau — 
 For the master, 
 
 ,, usher, . 
 
 ,, writing master. 
 Rent of a schoolhouse, 
 Premiums, 
 
 Of the Blue Coat Hospital, 
 Quit rent, 
 Receiver's fees. 
 
 75 
 35 
 
 15 
 11 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 
 
 II 
 
 140 11 
 
 20 
 l(i 5 
 
 21 11 
 
 
 10 
 
 57 17 
 
 U 
 
 Total annual expenses, 
 
 £401 9 U 
 
 The school at Navan has been, for many years past, shamefully neglected. This school 
 had been an absolute sinecure in the hands of Mr. Thomas I'igot, wlio died about fourteen 
 years ago, and an attempt lias been lately made to continue it a sinecure, Mr. Thomas 
 Pigot was succeeded, as master of this scliool, by Mr. Richard Barry, the late schoolmaster, 
 who never had many scholars. Mr. Ban-y died some time in the year 1787 ; and, from some 
 disputes among the trustees as to tlie right of electing a new master, the office of school- 
 master has remained vacant ever since. TJiere were, in the year 1788, only seven day 
 scholars at this school, for whom the uslu^r was paid tlu^ charges of tlieir tuition. 
 
 The scliool at Ballyroau has been equally neglected; for we find tliat ]\lr. liobert Flood, 
 tlie master of the scliool at Ballyroau, has deserted his duty at the said school since the 
 year 17(i7, from which time he has lived, and kept a school, in the town of Portarlington, 
 about fourteen miles distant from Ballyroau, and has, notwitlistanding his absence from the 
 latter, received the salary as resident schoolmaster tlierc, namely, a salary of I."25 \wy annum, 
 to the year 1770 (wlien the t^alaries to the two schools were ordered by tim Lord Chancellor 
 to be increased), and j'roni tiiat time a salary of £75 yearly, without doing any otlier duty 
 than going to Ballyroau, occasionally, two or three times a-ycar, for a day or two at each 
 visit, whicii was done merely for the purpose, as wc apprcliend, of giving a pi-etcnco for 
 the receiving his salary, whilst the care of the school, which is little better than nominal, 
 was left by him to an usher, who is ])aid £35 per annum out of tiie estate. 
 
 This usher was aj)[)ointed by !Mr. Flood upon terms which wo cannot too strongly con- 
 demn. It appears tliat he was to receive no part of the salary ])aid to the master of the 
 school, but was to take the salary of tlio uslier only, and to have for his own use the 
 money mad(! by the boys; that ho was to instruct any two boys gratis whom Mr. Flooil 
 should recommend ; and that his agreement should cx])ire in seven years, or at the death 
 of Mr. Flood's wile. To give the ajipcarancc of there being scholars at this school, the
 
 lion JiKfuirif, 
 
 DOCUMENTS. 3G1 
 
 usiicr, with tlio consent of Mr. Flood, had induced t^onio of the scholars of ;i wiitiiig master, /^'/""■' "fCommla- 
 who has also a salary upon this foundation of £15 i)er annum, and wlio kccijs a separate *'»f"'-Y?'^ ■'';">'' ^j'"'"- 
 school 111 the town, to coino occasionally to the said grammar school, where they are set 
 down as free scholars, but without receiving any instruction there except in reading, and 
 that very rarely. 
 
 Wo licg leave to submit it to your E.xcellency as our opinion, that Mr. Flood should be 
 immediatelv proceeded against, so as to bo dismissc^d, by \vhatov(;r means may b(! found 
 necessary lor tliat purpose, from the office of schoolmaster of Ballyroan, for gross neglect of 
 his duty ; and that proper stej)s should be taken to jirevent the said oOice, as also that of 
 schoolmaster at Navan, now vacant, irom being supplied, till some plan can be adopted to 
 make this valuable endowment of real use to the community ; and, upon the whole, v,e are 
 also of o[)iuion that the conduct of Mr. Jones, as receiver of the estate and as law agent, 
 is liable to the charges of mismanag(Mnent and neglect in the execution of the duties of 
 both those offices, and that he should no longer continue to be employed for this charity. 
 
 School at Clonmel. 
 
 In the town of Clonmel is a grammar school, founded by Eicliard and Stephen Moore, 
 Esqrs., who, by deed bearing date the 7th May, 1685, assigned certain lands in the county 
 of Ti])])orary, containing about 370 acres, then let for £42 per annum to Charles Alcock and 
 Thomas I>atty, Esqrs., their heirs and assigns, to the intent that a free school should be 
 erected in the said town for the education and teaching of all the Protestant freemen's 
 children gratis, and in trust that tliey employ the said yearly rent of £42 in maintaining 
 the said school. And the said deed empowers .lames, IJuke of Orniond, the said liichard 
 Moore, and Stephen Moore, or their heirs, and the Mayor of Clonmel, or any two of them, 
 to appoint and change the master and masters of the said school as they shall think fit 
 and convenient. 
 
 The lands are now^ worth about £,370 ])er annum ; but the late Earl of Mountcashel, 
 who is heir-at-law of the donors, thinking, as he said, that £200 yearly was sufficient for 
 the schoolmaster, executed a lease for three lives to Edward Collins, Esq. (a gentleman 
 totally unconnected with the school), of the said lands, at the yearly rent of £200, only 
 payable to the said schoolmaster, and applied to the heirs-at-law of the trustees, who 
 alone, or their assigns, are, as we conceive, empowered to let the said lands, to join in the 
 said lease, we thought it our duty to endeavour to counteract this application (though 
 we find without success) as injurious to this foundation ; for though we think £200 yearly 
 too liberal an allowance for any schoolmaster, who should rely on bis school for his profits, 
 wo apprehend the surplus of the fund should be applied to promote further the purposes 
 of the education in this school. 
 
 On the 24th ,lune, 1773, the late Earl of iMonntcashel, in conjunction with the then 
 Mayor of Clonmel, appointed the Kov. llobcrt Watts, a cousin-german of his lordship, and 
 the Kev. Richard Carey, to be master of the said school, in the room of John Daltoii 
 Harwood, deceased. The lands were then in lease for £200 per annum, of which sum Mr. 
 Carey was, by agreement with Lord Mountcashel, to receive £80 per annum, and to keep 
 the school; and the remainder, namely, £120 per annum, was to be paid to the said Mr. 
 Watts, who was not to bo required to attend to any of the duties of the said school. Ou 
 the 31st October, 1776, the said Mr. Watts executed a deed of sale of his interest in the 
 said school to the said Yir. Carey, for the sum of £720, and on the 13th August, 1777, the 
 I'.arl of Mountcashel, together with the JIayor of Clonmel, by deed of that date, appointed 
 the said Mr. Carey alone to be master of the said school. 
 
 The said Mr. Carey has stated to us, that besides the sum of £720, which he gave for 
 5Ir. Watts' interest, he has paid off a mortgage of £150, contracted for the repairs of a 
 schoolhouse ; that ho has expended £l70 on the house and garden wall, and that he has 
 lost near £ 1,400 of the rents of the school lands by the I'ailurc of lessees. Mr. Carey resides 
 in the schoolhouse, which is a large old building, not in very good repair, subject to a chief 
 rent of £20 per annum. He had twenty-one boarders and ton daj' scholars, two of the 
 latter received their education free of expense, but they were not the children of Protestant 
 freemen of Clonmel, nor do any such apply to be educated gratuitoush-. 
 
 We apprehend there has been a misapplication of this charity, and that it ought to be 
 redressed by bill or information brought by liis Jlnjcsty's Attorney-Genera! for that purpose : 
 and wo consider the lease to the said Mr. Collins as injurious to the charity, and as a 
 breach of trust in the trustees. 
 
 School at JIidletox. 
 
 A school was founded at Jlidlcton, by Elizabeth, Countess of Orkney, by deed bearing 
 date the 23rtl of October, 1696, whereby certain lamls in the county of Cork are conveyed 
 to Allan Broderick and Laurence Clayton, Esqrs., in trust, to build a schoolhouse, with all 
 suitable conveniences, in the town of Midleton, and to establish a free school there ; and the 
 said deed directs that the majority of the governors of the said school should appoint, from 
 time to time, head master, usher, and writing master, at the salaries following, namely l — 
 
 Head master, £100 
 
 An usher, 20 
 
 Writing master, whether the same be the usher or not, . . 20 
 
 That there should be laid by for repairs and contingent expenses, 10 
 And for exhibitions to the university, no one establishment to 
 
 exceed £15 per anuum, .50 
 
 Vol. II. 3 A
 
 362 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Report of Conmis- The Said Countess appoints certain persons named in the said deed, to the number of 
 'Tmllquiit f-'aT' ^^^■®"' ^"'^ ^''^''' ^'^"■®' together with the Bishop of Cork and Sovereign of Midleton, both 
 
 ' for the time being, to be governors of the said school and of its revenues, and upon the 
 
 death of any one or more of the said governors, the major part of the survivors bein"" 
 present, are empowered to elect a new governor or governors. 
 
 The said lands have been let for lives renewable for ever, in two separate leases, each at 
 the yearly rent of £100, and a fine of £25 at the fall of every life ; one of the said leases 
 was made in the year 1710, the other about two years afterwards — the said lands are at 
 present, as has been stated to us, worth £700 per annum. 
 
 We observe that the said exhibitions of £50 yearly, have not been paid to the university 
 since the j'ear , and ought to be accounted for. 
 
 The schoolmaster receives the rents above mentioaed, amounting to £200 per annum, 
 and also the fines for renewal, and passes his accounts for the same before the governors. 
 By the accounts which he passed on the 2(ith June, 1788, there was a balance due by him, 
 as receiver to the school, of £lo8 Is. '2d. 
 
 There is a great liouse for the school and the residence of the schoolmaster, in which 
 fifty boarders might be accommodated with convenience. The present master, the Rev. 
 James Keid, was appointed on the 29th of March, 1775 ; he had sixty -five boarders in the 
 year 17>3, but the school had fallen ofl' so very considerably, that in the year 17S8 there 
 were only ten boarders and eight day scholars there ; of the latter, sLx were free scholars. 
 
 School at Kilkenny. 
 
 There is a school at Kilkenny, founded by James, Duke of Onnond, by deed bearing 
 date the 18th of March, 1(J84, whereby he grants to certain trustees, and their heirs and 
 assigns for ever, a largo mansion house in Kilkenny, and a meadow adjoining, consisting of 
 about three acres, for the use of a school, and certain rectories and tithes in the counties 
 of Kilkenny and Tippcrary, to pay out of the rents or issues thereof £ 1 40 yearly to the 
 schoolmaster for his own maintenance, and for the maintenance of one or more usher or 
 ushers, to be chosen and employed by such master, and to the intent that there shall be 
 so much laid our from time to time as shall be necessary for repairs ; and if bis JMajestj', 
 his heirs, or successors, at the request of the said duke or his heirs, Dukes of Ormond, and 
 of the visitors, shall be pleased to make the said school a free school, and to erect a 
 corporation for the government thereof, according to the statutes made by the said duke, 
 and for the purchasing lands for the maintenance thereof, then and in such case the said 
 duke empowers the said trustees to make a conveyance of the pi-emises to such corporation. 
 
 The said duke framed certain statutes for the government of this school. By these 
 statutes '• the master is to be chosen by the founder and his heirs male of his body, Dukes 
 " of Ormond, who were to be patrons and governors ; but upon fiiilure of such issue, the 
 " Provost, Fellows, and Scholars, of Trinity College, Dublin, are to he patrons and gover- 
 " nors, the Bishops of Ossory, and of Leighlin and Ferns, together with the said Provost, 
 •'ail for the tiuie being, to be visitors, and to vi.sit yearly, if they see occasion, who then 
 •• (inter alia), if there shall be foundation scholars, shall choose them from the university." 
 
 " The master to charge the rates of the most remarkable schools in Dublin, but for the 
 "children of the inhabitants of Kilkenny, half as much ; cliildren in the service of the Duke 
 " of Ormond, to be admitted gratis. Visitors may recommend boys, for whose teaching 
 ■' persons, out of charity, may be disposed to pay, to be t.aught gratis." 
 
 By the failure of tlie issue male of the founder, tlie government and patronage of the 
 school has devolved upon the Provost and Senior Fellows of Trinity College, Dublin, by 
 whom the Rev. John Elhson, d.d., present master, was appointed. The house having 
 been nearly ruinous, the said Dr. Ellison, on two applications made by him to the House 
 of Commons, obtained grants for £5,0G4, to be laid out in building a new one. The monej' 
 has been usefully expended by tlic said Dr. Ellison; an excellent house has been created 
 by him, sufficient to accommodate eighty boarders in single beds. The cretlit of this 
 .school, formerly of great celebritj% but fallen in its cliaracter in the time of tlic late master, 
 has been revived by Dr. Ellison, of whose conduct and care of his scholars, as well as of 
 his course of instruction, we think it necessary to express an entire ap])robation. It con- 
 .sisted in the year 1788 of thirty-six boarders and twenty-nine day scholars. 
 
 Wo do not find that there arc any more grammar scliools on private cliaritable founda- 
 tions, possessed of .sucli consideral)lc endowments as those we have mentioned to your 
 Excellenc}', but tlierc are other endowed schools of tliat description which arc in good 
 repute, namely, at Castlebar, Carrickmacross, Watcrf'ord, and other places, as may be seen 
 by tho Abstracts of the Appendix, showing at one view the state of all the existing schools 
 in this kingdom on public and private foundations, the number of scliolars in each school, 
 and the value of the respective endowment-;, together with such further jiarticulars as we 
 are able to a.scertain, eitlicr from the evidence taken on oath before us, or from such 
 returns as have been made to us. 
 
 English Schools on Pkivati; CiuitiTAnLE Foundations. 
 
 With regard to the i'higlish schools on private charitable foundations, the most consi- 
 derable are — 
 
 Wilson's Hospital. 
 
 A ilson's Hospital, in the county of Wcstmeatli, founded by Andrew Wilson, Esf|., who
 
 DOCUMENTS. 3G3 
 
 devised certain lands to tlio Primate, Archbishop of Dublin and Tuam, and the Bishops of Repun of Commit. 
 Meath and Kildare for its support. simmrsof'JriHhEducn. 
 
 An Act passed in the year 176*2 for tlic establishment of this charity ; and by the said ''"« ■^"'/«^. ''^l- 
 Act, the trustees above-named are created into a cor])oration. In tliis h()Sj)ital twenty poor 
 men are comfortably maintained and clothed; and 100 boys arc maintained, clothed, 
 instructed in reading, writing, and arithmetic, and put out with apprentice fees. The 
 income arises from the riiits of lands, which produce yearly £2,032, to which may be added 
 £225 more, being the reputed annual value of the demesne, which consists of 1.00 acres; 
 and £00 being the annual interest of government debentures. The wliolc annual income 
 may, ihoreroro, be taken at £2,31 7- The annual expenditure, upon an average of the last 
 three years, has been £ , which is just £ yearly for each man or boy. 
 
 School at Tuukit. 
 
 At Tubrit, in the couiity of Monaghan. is a school, founded by tlio will of George 
 Vaugban. J'lsq., dated the 23rd June, 17.53. Some disputes having arisen between the 
 trustees of this charity and the devisees, an Act of Parliament passed in the year 1776, 
 which confirms and establishes an agreement made between tliem concerning a division of 
 the real and personal estates of the testator, and erects tlie said trustees into a corporation. 
 The corporation liave caused a school to \w built, which was opened on the 1st day of Novem- 
 ber, 1787, for tlic admission of tliirty boys ; this number it was judged prudent not to exceed, 
 till some suits at law, still depending, were determined. The boys are dieted, clothed, 
 lodged, and instructed in reading, writing, arithmetic, agriculture, and gardening. 
 
 The real estates of this charity produce annually £ 
 
 The personal property consists of 
 
 The expenditure for one year, to the 1st November, 1788, was £ 
 
 1st November, 1789, 
 „ 1st November, 1790, 
 
 Blue Coat IIospital, Cork. 
 
 The Blue Coat Hospital, in the city of Cork, was founded by Dr. Edward "Worth, Bishop 
 of Killaloe, who died in tlie year 1G99, and endowed by him with lands for its maintenance, 
 which, in the year 1707, were leased for ever (under what authority we have not been 
 hitherto able to discover) at the yearly rent of £457 ICs. In this hospital forty boys are 
 maintained, educated, and apprenticed, chiefly to seafaring persons. 
 
 Bishop Foy's School at WATEnroiiD. 
 
 In the city of Waterford is a day school, in which seventy-five boys are clothed, 
 instructed in reading, writing, and arithmetic, and bound out with apprentice fees. It is 
 supported by the rents of the lands, &c., devised by Dr. Nathaniel Foy, formerly Bishop 
 of Waterford, which produce yearly £523 lis., and which will rise to almost double that 
 sum on tlie fall of some old lives. h\ the year 1724 an Act passed for settling this school. 
 It is a well-regulated charity, and of great benefit to the city of Waterford. 
 
 We think it our duty to take notice of some schools of this class, from which the public 
 at present derive no advantages. 
 
 Thomas Deane, Esq., created a School and Alms-house near Saint Peter's chuixh, Cork, 
 in which he educated twenty boys and twenty girls, and bound them out apprentices ; and 
 maintained eight old men and women. By his will, dated 1st October, 1784, he bequeathed 
 rent-charges for ever, amounting to £210 yearly, to the corporation of the city of Cork, 
 in trust, for the support of this charity ; liis heirs, for a long time, expended only £100 
 yearly for the above purposes; and Lord Muskerry, the present heir-at-law of the donor, 
 has not contributed any support to this charity for a great many years. No children are 
 now received ; neither are the old men or women maintained. The said corporation, with 
 the assistance of the Bishop of Cloyne, has instituted a suit for the estabhshment of this 
 chai'ity, and for recovering the arrears. 
 
 Dr. Patrick Hewitson, who died on the 30th March. 1783, devised to Dalrymple, 
 
 Esq., the Primate, and the Bishop of Kddare, some personal property, to the value of 
 £2,000 nearly, in trust for the support of a Charity School, to be built on the lands of 
 Betaghstown, in the county of Kildare, for as many poor boys and girls as the trustees 
 should thiid< fit ; to be instructed in the Protestant religion, reading, writing, and arith- 
 metic, and to be bound out with apprentice fees ; and the testator, who devised his real 
 estate, worth £297 3s. Id. yearly, after the death of Mr. Moses Cahill, who is a very old 
 man, for the further support of the said school. This charity has not been carried into 
 effect ; nor has the interest upon the personal property been demanded since the death of 
 the testator, the trustees above-mentioned not having been informed of the trust. 
 
 Mr. .James Knight, by deed, dated 30th November, 1725, granted a rent-charge for ever 
 of £60 yearly for the support of a Charity School, then kept in the Little Close, behind the 
 Cathedral of Saint Patrick's, in Dublin, for clothing, educating, and binding out apprentices, 
 twenty boys of poor Popish parents, to be bred up Protestants ; if the children of such 
 parents are not to be had, the children of poor Protestants are to be admitted. There has 
 been, as we are informed, a long and expensive suit for the recovery of this charity, and a 
 decree given in its favour a few years ago. The rent-charge, however, is not paid, nor is 
 any school kept. 
 
 Vol. II. 3 A 2
 
 364 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 lirpori •>/ Cowmh- At Saint Johnstown, near Longford, Jolin Kaghtegan, a schoolmaster, has lately sold 
 
 '"'tkmLiqiiinil i73i" Certain lands, which, as we have good reason to apprehend, were devised for the use of an 
 
 — '- English school, to which he had been appointed schoolmaster, and has run away. Tiie 
 
 said lands contain sixty aci-es, and are worth sixteen shillings an acre. The purchaser has 
 
 acknowledged before us, that the said lands had Ijecn devised for the support of a school. 
 
 Wo do not think it necessary to trouble your Excellency by particularizing in this place 
 any more of the Knglish schools on ]>rivate charitable foundations, but shall beg leave to 
 refer your Excellency, for the state of the rest of those schools, to the Abstracts above- 
 mentioned. 
 
 In respect to the surplus of funds appropriated by private persons for the purposes of 
 in.struci:ion only, in ])articular places, wc tliink that the said surpluses should be expended 
 in the same places in improviiig the plan of education, by employing a mathematical 
 master, &c. ; and if more than suflicient for that purpose, then in the gratuitous clothing 
 and maintaining of a competent number of poor scholars in each school respectively. 
 
 Observations uton the ForLEcoiKo Schools. 
 
 We now beg leave to trouble your Excellency with some observations on the foregoing 
 schools, and with some further remedies for ihe reformation and future prevention of the 
 abuses therein. 
 
 On the subject of charter schools and three other public institutions, namely, parish, 
 Royal, and diocesan schools, it is our indispensable duty to declare that tliey have not 
 answered the intentions of the founders : that parisli and diocesan schools, v/ith very few 
 exceptions, have been of little use to the public ; and that the benefits derived from schools 
 on Royal foundations have been totally inadequate to the expectations that might have 
 been justly formed from their large endowments; those schools being free schools, and 
 the number of scholars only thirty-eight, each boy (and they are only day scholars) costs 
 the public annually above £I00. And in respect to the charter schools, we are obliged to 
 declare, that in many of tliem the clothing, cleanliness, food, health, and education of the 
 children have been shamefully neglected ; and that this great national charity has not yet 
 produced those salutary effects which the public expected from the institution ; and that 
 from those four dhferent classes of schools, if properly conducted, the mo.st extensive 
 national benefits will be derived. 
 
 We beg leave to recommend that proceedings should be had for vacating the ofBces of 
 such schoolmasters as had deserted or grossly neglected their duty, in such manner as 
 shall be recommended by Ilis Majesty's Attorney-General. And we think it our duty, with 
 whatever reluctance, to mention to your Excellency Mr. Hood, the master of the school at 
 Ballyroan, the Rev. Edward Baily, master of the school at Carysfort, the Rev. Dr. Cot- 
 tingham, master of the school at Cavan, and Dr. Lamy, master of the school at Haphoe, 
 as proper objects for such a proceeding, unless your Excellency should think proper to 
 remove the two latter, their tenure being during the pleasure of the C'rown. 
 
 And wc also beg leave to recommend to your Excellency, that such proceedir.gs may be 
 had for redressing the misapplication of tlie funds ajjpropriated to the schools of Dungannon 
 and Clonmel as shall be advised by His Majesty's Attorney-General. 
 
 We beg leave to submit to your Excellency as our decided opinion, that there should be 
 no distinction made in any of the schools between scholars of dilferent religious persua- 
 sions, without meaning, however, to interfere with the peculiar constitution of the charter 
 schools, or witii the intentions of the founders of any other schools, expressed by their 
 wills or other instruments directing such foundations. 
 
 The Bo.\iiD of Contiiol. 
 
 As wc find that many of the existing abuses in schools on public and private foundations 
 and the misa]>plication of their funds, iiavc proceeded from tho delay.s, ditliculties, and 
 expenses attending tlie usual way of proceeding in such cases, by information in tiie Courts 
 of Equity, and as wo find large sums of money, part of tlie said funds have been employed 
 in such proceedings, we hog leave, for the ])urposo of reforming tho present existing 
 abuses, and preventing the like for the future, and the waste of those funds in tedious 
 litigations, to recommend that a summary jurisdiction should be created under the authority 
 of an Act of Parliament, to receive and redress all complaints made of tlie conduct of 
 masters and ushers of schools on jjublic and private foundations, or of tlie misa])[)lication 
 or abuse of the funds belonging to the same, witii an appeal from their sentence to the 
 Court of Chancery, provided always that in all cases where there arc governors, trustees, 
 or visitors of tho said charitable foundations, that comjjlaints shall be first made to the 
 said governors, trustees, or visitors, and that such comjdaint remains unredressed i'or the 
 space of three moiitlis after it has been made. 
 
 We are of opinion that the .summary jurisdiction should lie vested in certain Commis- 
 sioners, to be appointed for tiiat ])urpose, an.l to be called tho Board of Control ; and tiiat 
 the said Commissioners should act witliout fee or reward. 
 
 And we think it would be useful if tlie said Board had the power of directing, from time 
 to time, the plans of education to bo pursued in sciiools on public and private foundations, 
 in all cases where there arc no visitors, or where the founder himself lias given no direc- 
 tions on that subject. And if they were authorized to retjuirc from time to time an account 
 from the said several sclioolniastcrs, of tlie state of their schools, of tiie mode of education
 
 DOCUMENTS. 3G5 
 
 pursued therein, ami of such further circumstances as the said Board shall judge necessary nqwri cfCommh- 
 for tho acquiring a competent Icnowlcdgc of the state and circumstances of such school, fiiimcrs nj 'Irish Eiiuca- 
 sucli information to bo verified l_)y allidavits to 1)0 made hy such sciioolmasters or ushers '""' •^'"/«^, 179J. 
 before one of His Majesty's Judges, or a Magistrates of the county or city wlierc such scliool 
 is situated, or one of the Commissioners of tlie said I»oard ; and that it sliould be also 
 lawful for any one of tlie said Commissioners to visit any of the said schools where no 
 visitors have been appointed, to examine tlie masters and ushers, upon oatli, touching the 
 matters aforesaid, and to report tlieir evidence to tlie Board. 
 
 And W(! also beg leave to submit it as f>ur o])inion, tliat an Act similar to tliat of the 
 43rd of Elizabetii, in England, entitled, " An Act * would be highly useful and 
 
 necessary in this kingdom. 
 
 AVe have now performed, to tho best of our judgment and abilities, the arduous duty 
 which we have undertaken, and have laid before your Excellency an account of the funds 
 appro])riated to the purposes of school education in this kingdom, amounting to the sum 
 of £45,795 IS.'?. \\d. yearly. It ajjpcars to us that this great annual summit properly 
 applied, would be suillcient to ariswer the useful purposes for which tlioso funds were 
 intended ; but it has been ])roved to us upon oath, that a large proportion of those funds 
 has been grossly misa[)])lied, and that great frauds and abuses have been committed in 
 respect to those charitable donations. 
 
 The remedies which we have submitted to your Excellency for the reformation of those 
 evils we have mentioned with great diliidencc ; but if those remedies should be thought 
 not to have been sufficiently con.'^idcred, we beg leave to observe that the justice and credit 
 of the nation are at stake, that some efl'ectual remedies should be applied to such enormous 
 abuses, and that means should be taken for their prevention in future, for which purpose 
 we have taken the liberty of laying before your h^xcellency our recommendation for the 
 establishment of a summary jurisdiction, which we consider as a measure highly necessary 
 and useful, from the want of which, we apprehend, the various abuses in schools on private 
 as well as public foundations have arisen. 
 
 JiECiPITULATIOX 01' THE ADVANTAGES OE THE PROPOSED PlAN OF EDUCATION. 
 
 AVc beg leave shortly to recapitulate the several advantages which will be derived to 
 this kingdom from the plan of education wliicli we now humbly lay before your Excellency. 
 
 In the parish schools, in which there is at present no provision for the education of the 
 children of the poor. 25,250 poor children will be instructed gratuitously in reading, 
 writing, arithmetic, and the principles of religion ; upwards of 700 new parish schools will 
 be established, and between 800 and 900 schoolliouses provided for tlie residence of the 
 masters, and tlic instruction of the scholars, tho remaining number of the schools having 
 already houses provided for tliosc purposes. The pavi.di schools at present existing will 
 1)0 rendered more efficient and useful, and the education in the 1,100 parish schools will 
 receive great encouragement by the drafting oft' such of the scholars as are most meri- 
 torious to other schools for the purpose of perfecting their education ; and the regu- 
 lations proposed as to those schools will tend to promote the laudable institution of Sunday 
 schools. 
 
 Tho charter schools will, we flatter ourselves, receive great improvements, if the altera- 
 tions wliich we have taken the liberty to recommend shall bo adopted. The in.stitution 
 itself, and i:s greatly increased funds, render that establishment an object of the greatest 
 national importance. 
 
 The diocesan schools will be rendered much more useful by the establishment of an 
 additional master. Eight will be added to the number of those schools, and the rest 
 rendered more efficient and useful; 440 boys will receive a classical education, and be 
 instructed in the mathematics ; and provision is also proposed to be made for tlie education 
 in like manner, and also for the clothing and maintaining 3D6 poor scholars, to be elected 
 and sent thither from the parish and other schools. 
 
 The seven Royal schools will be all rendered efficient ; one of them only, namely, 
 Armagh, can be called so at present. By the proposed plan, 140 grattiitous scholars will 
 be instructed in those schools, and the redundancy of tlie revenues, which has proved 
 highly pernicious to those establishments, will, by its useful application, be the means of 
 their reformation, and will promote the ends of education by being properly applied to a 
 great institution, the want of which has been long complained of in this country, and has 
 been the cause of educating out of it many of the children of the principal nobility and 
 gentry, and of drawing large sums of money annually out of this kingdom. We mean — 
 
 A Collegiate School, or school connected with the University, upon the plan of the 
 great collegiate schools which, by long experience, have been found so highly useful in 
 England. We have provided, in this part of the plan, for the maintenance of thirty-two 
 King's scholars in the school, and for forty-two students in the University. 
 
 The other new institution proposed, called the Professional Academy, will train up useful 
 members for tho army, navy, and commerce; will be a great national institution ; and will 
 at the same time, be a useful model for private seminaries of a simdar nature, which will 
 ])robably be established by private undertaking in several of the principal towns of this 
 kingdom. This will be also a great public charity, by wluch 100 boys wdl be instructed 
 and maintained gratuitously. It will also give new vigour to the schools of Erasmus 
 
 * [Probably " An ^Act to redress tlie misemployment of lands, gooJs, and stocks of money, heretofore given to 
 certain charitable uses." Stat, -i;! Eliz. ch. 4.]
 
 3(i6 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Re}i(irt of Commh- Smith if tlie boys should be elected from thence, and will unite and be a beautiful finishing 
 siuncrsuflriAEdiica- ^Q this part of thc sjstem of education in this country. The expense of such an institution 
 
 tmn Inquiry, 1791. j^ trifling, indeed, compared with the great national advantages likely to result from it, and 
 would not exceed, according to oui- calcuhition, the annual sum of £2,100, ior which it is 
 apprehended the legislature would cheerfully proride if it was found necessary to resort 
 to them for that purpose. But we apprehend that this necessity may be jirevented, and 
 adequate resources obtained for the support of this institution out of the surplus of 
 Erasmus Smith's estates, if the Governors sliould thinlc proper to a]jpropriato them to that 
 purpose. Those estates are for the most part appropriated to the purposes of promoting 
 the education of this kingdom, and, we apprehend, could not be more properly employed 
 than in supporting such an institution. 
 
 Those plans for the education of His Majesty's subjects in this kingdom of all ages, 
 conditions, and descriptions, may be supported by the faithful application of the existing 
 funds to the purposes intended by the founders, without violating the wiU or intentions of 
 any one of them. 
 
 We have now submitted to your Excellency such a plan of education as we have been 
 able to digest from the information that has been laid before us, from which we are able 
 to decide with perfect certainty that a plan of National Education is not, as has been sup- 
 posed by many, impracticable in this kingdom. Further investigation wiU give additional 
 light; and a gradual execution of whatever system of education shall be adopted will be a 
 surer guide than any scheme that can be recommended from mere speculation. 
 
 We have the honour to be, &c.,- 
 
 J. H. II. (L.S.) T. B. (L.S.) 
 
 D. D. (L.S.) E. C. (L.S.) 
 
 I. C. (L.S.) E. H. (L.S.) 
 J. F. (L.S.) 
 
 * The names are — Right Hon. John Hely Hutchinson (then Secretary of State), Right Hon. Denis Daly, Right 
 Hon. Isaac Corry, Jolm Forbes, Esq., Thomas Burgh, Esq., Edward Cooke, Esq., (afterwards Under Secretary), 
 and Right Hon. Robert Hobart. .afterwards Eiirl of Bucliinghamsliire. Jlr. Hobart was added to the Commissiou 
 in ITSii, wlien appointed C'liief Secretary to tlie Lord Lieutenant in the place of the Right Hon. AUeyne Eitzher- 
 hert, afterwards Lord St. Helens, who was named in the original Commission issued 10th May, 1788. 
 
 Appendix to Beporl APPENDIX. 
 
 of ComiJii>;fno7t€rs of 
 
 Irish Educatiojt 
 
 Inquiry, 1791. 
 
 Contents of the Appendix. 
 
 1. The State of existing Schools in tlie Kingdom on Public and Private Foundations. 
 
 On Public Foundations, nainel^r ; — 
 
 English Parish School.s. 
 
 Diocesan Free Schools. 
 
 lloyal Free Schools. 
 
 Erasmus Smitli's Foundations. 
 
 Hibernian Scliool, for soldiers' children. 
 
 Hibernian Marine School. 
 
 IIosi)ital of King Charles II., in Dubliu. 
 
 Protestant Cliartrr Schools. 
 On Private Foundations: — 
 
 Grammar Scliools. 
 
 Eiif^lish Scliools. 
 Recapitulation of the Funds of the existing schools. 
 
 2. An Estimate of the E.xpeuse of the English Parish Schools, as proposed to bo improved, and 
 
 of the ways and means for defraying it. 
 
 3. An Estimate of thc Expense of the Diocesan Free Schools, as projwsed to he improved, and 
 
 of the ways and iiiean.s for defraying it. 
 
 4. An Estimate of the Expense of a Professional Academy, as proposed to bo established. 
 
 Appendix, No. I. — The State of the existing Schools in this Kingdom on Public 
 
 AND Private Foundations. 
 The State of the English Parish Schools, instituted by the Act of the 29thHoiiry VIIL, 
 
 cap. 15. 
 
 Much of our information, relative to the English parish schools, is collected from the 
 returns made by tlic llegister.s of twenty-nine of the dioceses, respectively, to the Lord 
 Li(!utcnant, in pursuance of an order fi-oin his Excellency for that ])urpose, wliicli returns 
 were sent to us by the Marquess of Buckingham, to whom we .applied for the returns of 
 the remaining dioceses in this kingdom, which are five in number, namely : — Armagh, 
 Aleath, Elphin, Kilmore, and Cashel; but returns from thc said five dioceses have not 
 hitherto been transmitted to us.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 367 
 
 According to the best information we have been able to collect, there are in this king- Apixniiix to Ri-.pon 
 dom thirty-four dioceses.:^ Tliese are divided into 2,292 i)arishcs, composing 1,100 "' ItrEiZunn'' 
 hcnefices. _ ^ ^ Inquini.'mn'.'' 
 
 h\ the twenty-nine dioceses, from wliich the said returns liavc been made, the number 
 
 of parishes is 1,669, composing S.^S benefices. 
 
 It appears that 352 \ only of the said 838 benefices have parish schools, which are kept 
 in no instance by the incumbents or their curates, but by deputies or persons paid for that 
 purpose, whoso stipend does not exceed, some very few instances excepted, forty shillings 
 yearly. 
 
 In seventy-four of tlie said 838 benefices the clergymen pay forty shillings yearly as an 
 allowance for a sciioolmaster, witliout causing any scliool to be kept in their benefices ; 
 and in the remainder of the said 838 benefices, being 412 in number, we cannot discover 
 by the said returns tliat the clergymen keep any schools, or that they pay any salaries to 
 others for keeping them. 
 
 This foct, it is humbly submitted, is much to be lamented, since we find that above 
 11,000 children receive instruction in reading, and for the most part also in writing and 
 arithmetic, in the scliools of this class ; tliough, as wo apprehend., they are not kept in very 
 considerably more than half the benefices of this kingdom. 
 
 It appears by the said returns of the twenty-nine dioceses that there are 201 school- 
 houses in which the said schools are kept, and about forty-four acres of ground, chiefly in 
 small parcels, belonging to some of the said schoolhouses. 
 
 The prices paid for instructing the children are generally from one to three shillings per 
 quarter. 
 
 State of the Diocesan Free Schools in the Tear 1788. 
 
 
 Site of the 
 School. 
 
 Buildings, &c. 
 
 JIasters. 
 
 Dite of 
 Appointment. 
 
 Salaries 
 paid to the 
 Mastc:- liy 
 the Bishop 
 and CUrgy. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Dioceses. 
 
 1 
 
 Day. 
 Free. 
 
 J 
 
 Armagh. 
 
 1 
 None. 
 
 
 
 _ 
 
 _ 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 None. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Cashcl. 
 
 Cashel. 
 
 House in ruins, and half an acre ; the 
 master has been dispossessed of both. 
 
 Rev. JI. Clarke. 
 
 31 Dec, 1773. 
 
 40 
 
 2 
 
 25 
 
 - 
 
 27 
 
 Clonf crt and 
 
 Koue. 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 None. 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 Kilmacduagh. 
 
 None. 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 None. 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 
 Clogiier. 
 
 Monaghan. 
 
 Schoolroom, which has neither floor 
 nor ceiling, and a rood of ground. 
 
 Rev. A. Allen. 
 
 12 June, 1773. 
 
 30 12 6i 
 
 - 
 
 20 
 
 3 
 
 23 
 
 Cork. 
 
 Cork. 
 
 A dark room in a miserable bad condi- 
 tion. 
 
 Rev. Giles Lee. 
 
 23 Jmie, 1784. 
 
 2j 6 9 
 
 2 
 
 56 
 
 - 
 
 58 
 
 Itoss. 
 
 None. 
 
 — 
 
 Rev. J. Caveney. 
 
 22 Nov., 1783. 
 
 29 19 2 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 Cloyue. 
 
 Cloyne. 
 
 A small house, not fit for boarders, 
 and a quarter of an acre. 
 
 Rev. 51. Slater. 
 
 7 J.an., 1784. 
 
 30 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 riorry. 
 
 Derry. 
 
 A house, in repair, fit for twelve 
 boarders. 
 
 Rev. T. Marshall. 
 
 — 
 
 40 
 
 4 
 
 31 
 
 ^6 
 
 41 
 
 Dromore. 
 
 Dromore. 
 
 IIousc ill ruins for want of repair, 
 as the master could not jirooure 
 County Presentments, and now not 
 wortli repairing, and one acre. 
 
 Rev. W. Campbell. 
 
 II June, 17GB. 
 
 20 12 4 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 " 
 
 9 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 Dublin. 
 
 — 
 
 Rev. J. Ball. 
 
 17 Aug., 1781. 
 
 30 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 - 
 
 10 
 
 Glanilelagh. 
 
 None. 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 — 
 
 None. 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 Down. 
 
 Down. 
 
 — 
 
 Rev. R. Wylde. 
 
 Nov., 1786. 
 
 31 3 
 
 - 
 
 20 
 
 - 
 
 20 
 
 Connor. 
 
 C;irrickfergus. 
 
 No house ; one acre. 
 
 Rev. S. Cupples. 
 
 13 Dec, 1760. 
 
 30 
 
 3 
 
 10 
 
 - 
 
 13 
 
 Eliiliin. 
 
 Elphin. 
 
 House in good repair. 
 
 Rev. H. Kenny. 
 
 11 June, 1766. 
 
 30 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 » The thirty-four dioceses, according to patents of the several Archbishops and Bishops .are — 
 
 In Conxaught. 
 
 In LiyNSTKR. 
 
 Dublin and Glandelagh. 
 
 Meath. 
 
 Kildare. 
 
 Leighliu and Ferns. 
 
 Ossorv. 
 
 In Ulster. 
 
 Armagh. 
 
 Clogher. 
 
 Dcrry. 
 
 Down and Connor. 
 
 Dromore. 
 
 Kilmore. 
 
 Raphoe. 
 
 In Mdnstek. 
 
 Cashel. 
 
 Cloyne. 
 
 Cork and Ross. 
 
 Killaloc and Kilfenora. 
 
 Limerick, Ardfert, and 
 
 Aghadoe. 
 Waterford and Lismore. 
 
 Clonfert and Kilmacduagh. 
 Elphin. 
 
 Killala and Achonry. 
 Tuam, Enaghdoen, and 
 Ardagh. 
 
 t In these 352 benefices 361 schools are kept.thcre being some few instances in wliicli clergymen keep two 
 schools in a benefice.
 
 368 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 State of the Diocesan Free Schools in the Year 1788 — continued. 
 
 Diocese ). 
 
 Site of the 
 School. 
 
 Biiil.'.'n:js, &c. 
 
 Masters. 
 
 Kildare. 
 
 KiUala. 
 
 Aclioury. 
 
 Killaloe. 
 
 Kilfunora. 
 
 Kilmore. 
 
 Tjeighlin. 
 
 i'erns. 
 J^imerick. 
 
 Ardfert. 
 
 Aghadoc. 
 
 Meath. 
 
 Ossory. 
 Kaphoe. 
 Tuatn. 
 
 Enaghdoen. 
 Ardagh. 
 
 WaterforJ. 
 Tiismore. 
 
 Naa.s. 
 
 None. 
 
 None. 
 
 IviUaloe. 
 
 None. 
 
 None. 
 
 Carlow. 
 
 Eniiiscorthy. 
 Limerick. 
 
 None. 
 None. 
 Trim. 
 
 None. 
 None. 
 Tuam. 
 
 None. 
 Longford. 
 
 None. 
 None. 
 
 House, repairing, fit for twenty boarders, 
 and garden of about q^uarter of an acre. 
 
 D.ito of 
 Appointment. 
 
 Salaries 
 paid to tlie 
 Master by 
 the Bishop 
 and Clergy. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Q 1 b 
 
 licv. S. .Slater. 
 
 llev. J. Martin. 
 
 House, fit for twenty boarders, and Rev. F. llraffii^n. 
 small play L;round. 
 
 Rev. 
 
 Ilou.seanil small yard in bud condition. I Rev. 
 The ni.ister IcH it fori:!!! ]icr annum, 
 and keeps tlie scliuol in a house pro- 
 vided by the Eishop of Limerick. 
 
 S. Francis. 
 W. Jones. 
 
 Ij Mav, 1784. 
 
 lOi'eb., 1787. 
 
 25 Aug., 1787. 
 
 House, notiiabitable, garden, and ball- i Uev. 
 court. 
 
 X «. 
 
 d. 
 
 40 
 
 
 
 None. 
 
 
 None. 
 
 
 25 
 
 
 
 None. 
 
 
 None. 
 
 
 25 3 
 
 <l 
 
 30 
 
 
 
 27 15 
 
 2 
 
 None. 
 
 
 None. 
 
 
 iO 14 
 
 3] 10 
 12! 14 
 
 M. JIainwright. 25 Mar., irss. 3G 0,- 
 
 Rev. A. I'aek. 
 
 House, not habitable, small garden and 
 baek-vard. 
 
 House for twenty boarders, garden and 
 yard of half an acre. 
 
 Rev. 
 
 I April, 1779. OG 
 None. 
 L. ]!iir!,m. [ 30 Oct., 1781. i 28 13 3 
 
 Rev. J. Dondim. 
 
 None. 
 2(J April, VeC 30 
 
 None. 
 
 None. 
 
 19 
 
 10 
 
 1» 
 
 2fi 
 
 ay 
 
 ToUil, . GIU 5 7 4G 253' 251 G24 
 
 The diocesan schools arc all grammar schools. The average price for boarders is four 
 guineas entrance and twenty-four guineas per ainiuni, and ior day scholars one guinea 
 entrance and four guineas per annum, and there arc generally separate charges for writing, 
 arithmetic, the matliematics, French. &c. The salary of the schoolmaster of Dublin is 
 paid by the Dean and Chapter, and not by the bishop and clergy at krge. 
 
 The names of such dioceses as contribute to the ])ayment of salaries of diocesan school- 
 masters, respectively, tlio said dioceses being twenty- in number. 
 
 L Casliel. | G. Deny. I 11. Elpliin. 
 
 2. Clogher. i 7. Droniorc. 12. Kililare. 
 
 3- Cork. I 8. Dublin. 1;]. Killaloe. 
 
 4. lloss. i 9. Down. M. Loiglilin. 
 
 .5. Cloyne. I 10. Connor. | 15. Tonis. 
 
 IG. Limerick. 
 
 17. Meath. 
 
 18. O.s.sory. 
 
 19. Tnnm'. 
 
 20. Arda.'Ii. 
 
 The names of persons who receive salaries as masters of diocesan free schools, but who 
 did not act, being si.\ in number. 
 
 llov. .1. Caveiicy, Mii.stor of tlio Free School of tlio Diocese of Ilos.s. 
 
 llev. Matthew Slator, do., do., Cloyne. 
 
 Rev. W. D. Kenny, d,,., do., El])'hin. 
 
 Rev. James h^lator, do., do., Kildare. 
 
 Rev. Mark Maiiiwright, do., do., Meath. 
 
 Rev. Anthony Tack, do., do., Ossory.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
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 370 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Appendix to Report 
 
 of Commissioners of 
 
 Irish Education 
 
 Inquiry, 1791. 
 
 The State of the Foundatiox of Erasmus Smith. 
 
 A General Account of the Funds Jor the Support of Erasmus Smith's Schools. 
 
 The rents of lands which ai-e situate in the counties of Tipperary, Limerick, Shgo, 
 Westmeath, King's County, Clare, and Gal way, produce, annually, £4,249 As. \0d. This 
 sum ^vill be increased £500 or £600 more on the 1st of May, 179S, when a lease of the 
 lands of Kilduff, in the county of Limerick, will expire. 
 
 The debts due to the governors of the said schools are: — a bond of the Kight Honourable 
 Owen Wynne, dated the 5th February, 1789, secured by a judgment for £3,089 2s. Id., on 
 account of which £954 9s. has been paid. 
 
 A bond of David England, dated the 3rd of April, 1788, and secured in like manner, 
 for £518 12s. 2d. 
 
 Both bonds are for arrears of rent, and bear an interest of five per cent. 
 
 Thei-e was an arrear due to the said governors on the 1st of May, 1789, by other 
 tenants, of £1,418 12?. \\d., of which sum £1,000 was deemed recoverable. 
 
 To these sums should be added a balance, in the treasui'er's hands, on tlic 1st of May, 
 1789, amounting to the sum of £1,839 19s. Sid. 
 
 The said governors owe the sum of £1,000, for which they pay an interest of six per 
 cent. 
 
 An account of the annual disbursements out of the funds of Erasmus Smith's Schools : — 
 
 £ s. d. 
 109 10 
 
 To Christ's Hospital, in London, 
 
 „ Master of Droglieda Seliool, . 
 
 „ More for the support of bis Usher, 
 
 „ Head Usher, .... 
 
 „ Minister's Money for Usher's house, 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 100 
 
 150 
 
 GO 
 
 10 
 
 • 310 10 
 
 120 
 
 120 
 
 150 
 
 20 
 
 20 
 
 20 
 
 250 
 
 310 
 
 'J40 
 
 20 4 G 
 
 60 
 
 2,450 4 6 
 Treasurer's poundage, at Grf. in the pound, on the present rents, 
 
 which amount to £4,249 4s. lOrf., lOG 4 G 
 
 Agent's ditto, at Is., 212 9 
 
 Registrar's Salary, . . . . . . . . . 5000 
 
 Master and Usher at Tipperary, ...... 
 
 „ Galivay, ...... 
 
 ,, Ennis, ...... 
 
 Master of Xelva, in the Island of Valentia, .... 
 
 „ Nenagh, ........ 
 
 „ Templederry, ....... 
 
 Incorporated Society for the Charter School at Sligo, 
 
 Blue Coat Hospital, Dublin, about ..... 
 
 Trinity College, . 
 
 Ground rent of sundry schoolhouses, kc, .... 
 Interest of £1,000, due to the representatives of Josiali Vcaitch, 
 
 2,818 18 
 
 Schools upon the Foundation of Erasmus Smith. 
 
 
 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Site. 
 
 Buildings, &c. 
 
 Masters and Ushers, 
 
 and their Salaries, upon the 
 
 Foundation. 
 
 i 
 
 g 
 
 « 
 
 
 1 
 
 3 
 ^ 
 
 Drogheda. 
 
 Two houses for the master, which woiild 
 acconinu)date 100 hoarders, and one house 
 for tlie usher, lit for GO boarders. 
 
 Uich. Nori-is, d.d.. master, £250 
 Hot. Crawford, usher, 60 
 
 72 
 
 2e 
 
 25 
 
 123 
 
 Tipperary. 
 
 One house for the master, capable of con- 
 tainiuf? 1(10 boarders, and five acres of 
 Krouiid adjniiiins, and a house for the 
 usher, which would contain .'lO or 40 
 boarders, and 10 acres. 
 
 Key. Georffe Baker. ni,astor, 100 
 Kov. Basull Aldwell, uslicr, 20 
 
 5 
 
 2 
 
 11 
 
 18 
 
 Galway. 
 
 School in had repair; a new one to be built 
 on ii better site. 
 
 l?ev. Dr. Canipbell, master, 100 
 Uev. L. 11. Young, usher, . 20 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 53 
 
 53 
 
 Ennis. 
 
 Schoolhouse. built a few years since for 
 i'l,.500, and two acres. 
 
 Rev. M. Fitzgerald, master, 100 
 Kev. II. Weldon, usher, . M 
 
 - 
 
 - 
 
 
 - 
 
 Ncnagli. 
 
 House would hold six boarders. 
 
 Rev. James Everard, master, 20 
 
 i 
 
 12 
 
 - 
 
 16 
 
 Templederry. 
 
 No house. 
 
 Rev. Edwd. Jordan, master, 20 
 
 6 
 
 M 
 
 2 
 
 24 
 
 Xclva, Valentia 
 Island. 
 
 A good schoolhouse lately built. 
 
 Joseph Smith, . . .20 
 X7(iO 
 
 s<> 
 
 64 
 
 4S 
 139 
 
 48 
 282
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 371 
 
 For Boarders. 
 The prices avo at Droi,'lioila, twenty-six f^'uinoas 
 per aiHUiin 
 
 and 
 
 ami live 
 
 half guineas entrance. 
 Tippenii'y, twenty guineas per 
 
 annum, and tliree guineas 
 
 eutraneo. 
 Galway, .... 
 
 Ennis, twenty Kiii"oas per 
 
 annum, and live guineas 
 
 entrance. 
 Nenagh, eighteen pounds per 
 
 annum, and two guineas 
 
 entrance. 
 Tcnipledorry. 
 Xelva, ..... 
 
 Tor Day Scholars. 
 Prom two to four guineas per annum, and half a 
 ;ruinea entrance. 
 
 Two guineas 
 entrance. 
 
 per annum, and half a guinea 
 
 No charges made. 
 Pour guineas per 
 entrance. 
 
 annum, and half a guinea 
 
 Pour guinea.s 
 entrance. 
 
 per annum, and one guinea 
 
 No charges made. 
 
 The four schools first mentioned arc grammar schools. Nenagh and Tcmplcdcrry were 
 designed by the Governors of Erasmus Smitli's Schools for grammar schools, but the 
 classics are taught in both. Valentia is kept as an English school. 
 
 Appendix to lieport 
 
 of C(fminis^wncrs of 
 
 Irish KducMtioJi 
 
 Inr/uirii, I7U1. 
 
 Date cf 
 E&tabli;.hnieiit. 
 
 Annual Income. 
 
 Number of Boys 
 Maintu'med and Edu- 
 cated gratuitously. 
 
 State of the Hibernian School fur solJiors' children, 
 „ Hibernian Marine School, 
 
 ,, Hospital of King Chas. II. in Dublin, . 
 
 9th of Geo. III. 
 lath of Geo. III. 
 23rd of Chas. II. 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 2,614 l(i 101 
 
 1,729 7 3 
 
 1,827 8 6 
 
 2(i0 
 150 
 120 
 
 The State of the Protestant Charter Schools. 
 
 The whole net Income of the Incorporated Society applicable to the Support of Schools 
 
 and Nurseries for one Year. 
 
 £ s. d. £ s. d. 
 
 1,000 
 
 30 
 
 King's bounty, 
 
 Polls and poundage, . 
 
 34,000 
 1,020 
 
 32,980 
 
 Parliamentary grant, session 1788, , . .£10,000 
 
 1789, . . 12,000 
 „ „ 1790, . . 12,000 
 
 Polls and poundage, .... 
 
 Net produce in three years. 
 
 Which for one year is ........ . 
 
 Rental of the Ranelagh estate for one year, . , 1,0.^8 19 
 
 Composition rents, agent's fees, &c., ..... 198 13 
 
 Rental of Sir John Rogerson's estate for one year. 
 Life annuities charged upon the estates. 
 
 Agency, 
 
 Interest on £2,000 legacy not yet paid, 
 
 Rental of the lauds of Rahedy and Ardpatrick in the 
 county of Louth, devised by the will of Richard Stewart 
 to Sir Arthur Brooke, Bart., and his heirs, in trust for 
 certain uses therein specified, and then for the use of the 
 Incorporated Society for ever, with a proviso that they 
 build a schoolhouse for a Protestant schoolmaster in or 
 near town of Louth, and pay him a salary of ,£15 yearly ; 
 and also that they pay £10 yearly to the Infirmary at 
 Dundalk, and £-5 yearly to the rector of Louth, to be 
 distributed among the poor of that parish, . ' . . 300 
 
 Deduct the said £10 and £5, and deduct also Is. in the 
 pound for a receiver, ....... 30 
 
 u 
 
 6 
 
 
 1,G69 
 
 9 
 
 1 
 
 £100 
 
 
 
 
 130 
 
 
 
 
 120 
 
 
 
 
 
 350 
 
 
 
 
 
 Rents of lands held by schoolmasters, ..... 
 
 More rents of lands held by others, ...... 
 
 Annuities granted or devised to particular schools, including £250 y 
 
 granted by Erasmus Smith's Governors for the school at Sligo, 
 Ten turnpike debentures produce annually .... 
 
 Vol.. 11. 
 
 970 
 
 10,993 6 8 
 
 8G0 
 
 Si 
 
 
 270 
 C34 
 
 early. 
 
 n 
 
 1,319 9 1 
 
 706 18 
 
 277 
 26 10 
 
 lOi 
 
 3B2
 
 372 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Apfjciuliv to Jleport 
 
 of Commissioners of 
 
 Irish Education 
 
 Jitquiri/, 1791. 
 
 288 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 9 
 
 2 
 
 178 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 Subscriptions for one year, upon an average of tiie last tliree £ s. d. 
 years, to the 1st November, 1790, namely — 
 To the general fund. 
 To ])articular schools, 
 Eeceived from England, . 
 
 Two half years' dividends upon £40,000 stock, in the four per cents., granted 
 to the society in tbc year 1790 by a gcntleniau, who has desired that his 
 name should be concer-led. These dividends the society, with the entire 
 approbation of the donor, have applied to the enlargement of the fund 
 for apprenticing the children, and for giving them donations at the con- 
 clusion of their term, ......... 
 
 479 19 G 
 
 1,726 
 
 18,264 4 5 
 
 ■'■'i 
 
 To this sum is to be added a bequest of the Lord Vryhouven, who died 
 lately in London, of so much of his personal property as will produce in 
 the English funds £1,700 yearly, English money, to be employed 
 towards the support of the schools, and no part to be laid out in buildings, 
 repairs, or ornaments, ......... 1,841 13 4 
 
 Total, . . . £20,105 17 9|- 
 
 29th September, 1790. 
 
 Site. 
 
 County, 
 
 No. of 
 Children i 
 ill each 
 School. 
 
 Establish- 
 ment. 
 
 Children 
 Appren- 
 ticed. 
 
 Marriage 
 
 portions 
 
 paid. 
 
 ArJbraccen, 
 
 Meatli, 
 
 .•58 
 
 SO 
 
 241 
 
 15 
 
 Arkluw, . 
 
 
 Wicklow, . 
 
 
 41 
 
 40 
 
 151 
 
 13 
 
 Ballikelly, 
 
 
 Londoudcrry, 
 
 
 Ab 
 
 50 
 
 125 
 
 28 
 
 Eallinrobe, 
 
 
 Mayo, 
 
 
 30 
 
 40 
 
 101 
 
 13 
 
 Ballycastle, 
 
 
 Antrim, . 
 
 
 34 
 
 40 
 
 144 
 
 22 
 
 Castlebar, 
 
 
 Mayo, 
 
 
 43 
 
 50 
 
 46 
 
 
 
 Castlecarbcrry, 
 
 
 Kildare, . 
 
 
 Hi 
 
 50 
 
 143 
 
 16 
 
 Castledermott, . 
 
 
 Kildare, . 
 
 
 38 
 
 40 
 
 143 
 
 9 
 
 Castleisland, 
 
 
 Kerry, 
 
 
 22 
 
 45 
 
 72 
 
 8 
 
 Castlemartyr, . 
 
 
 Cork, 
 
 
 33 
 
 40 
 
 1.36 
 
 12 
 
 Cashel, . 
 
 
 Tipperarv, 
 
 
 30 
 
 40 
 
 103 
 
 13 
 
 Charleville, 
 
 
 Cork, " . 
 
 
 39 
 
 30 
 
 134 
 
 8 
 
 Clonmcl, . 
 
 
 Tipperary, 
 
 
 39 
 
 40 
 
 143 
 
 14 
 
 Clontarf Strand, 
 
 
 Dublm, . 
 
 
 C3 
 
 100 
 
 212 
 
 37 
 
 Crefigane, 
 
 
 Armagli, . 
 
 
 40 
 
 40 
 
 197 
 
 17 
 
 Dundalk, . 
 
 
 Loutli, 
 
 
 3(> 
 
 40 
 
 140 
 
 19 
 
 Dunmanway, . 
 
 
 Cork, 
 
 
 40 
 
 40 
 
 127 
 
 30 
 
 Farra, 
 
 \ 
 
 Westmeatb, 
 
 
 31 
 
 40 
 
 151 
 
 9 
 
 Frankfort, 
 
 . 
 
 King's County, 
 
 
 33 
 
 40 
 
 158 
 
 10 
 
 Galway, . 
 
 
 Galway, . 
 
 
 23 
 
 40 
 
 1.58 
 
 11 
 
 Inniscarra, 
 
 
 Cork, 
 
 
 44 
 
 50 
 
 108 
 
 10 
 
 Innishannon, . 
 
 
 Cork, 
 
 
 47 
 
 50 
 
 168 
 
 30 
 
 Kilkenny, 
 
 
 Kilkenny, 
 
 
 34 
 
 60 
 
 145 
 
 6 
 
 Kilfinane, . 
 
 
 Limerick, 
 
 
 14 
 
 20 
 
 149 
 
 G 
 
 Longford, . 
 
 
 Longford, 
 
 
 43 
 
 60 
 
 119 
 
 20 
 
 LDUglirea, 
 
 
 Galway, . 
 
 
 39 
 
 50 
 
 311 
 
 13 
 
 Maynooth, 
 
 
 Kildarc, . 
 
 
 34 
 
 40 
 
 140 
 
 3 
 
 Newmarket, 
 
 
 Clare, 
 
 
 37 
 
 40 
 
 106 
 
 _ 
 
 Newport, . 
 
 
 Tipperarv, 
 
 
 40 
 
 40 
 
 118 
 
 — 
 
 New Koss, 
 
 
 Wc.Kford, . 
 
 
 39 
 
 40 
 
 157 
 
 14 
 
 Hay, 
 
 
 Donegal, . 
 
 
 32 
 
 30 
 
 118 
 
 14 
 
 Santry, . 
 
 
 Dublin, . 
 
 
 36 
 
 40 
 
 191 
 
 17 
 
 Sliannon Grove, 
 
 
 Limerick, 
 
 
 63 
 
 100 
 
 444 
 
 64 
 
 Sliiro, 
 
 
 Sligo, 
 
 
 .')2 
 
 80 
 
 1.32 
 
 20 
 
 Htradl)ally, 
 
 
 (Juecn's County 
 
 
 39 
 
 50 
 
 105 
 
 11 
 
 Strangford, 
 
 
 Down, 
 
 
 39 
 
 50 
 
 95 
 
 15 
 
 Trim, 
 
 
 Meatli. . 
 
 
 38 
 
 40 
 
 133 
 
 h 
 
 Waterford, 
 
 
 Waterford, 
 
 
 41 
 
 40 
 
 209 
 
 16 
 
 
 1,455 
 
 1,775 
 
 ^ 
 
 _ 
 
 Nurscricx — Monivac. Co. flalway ; Sliannon Grove, 
 
 
 
 
 
 Co. Limerick ; jronasterevaii. Co. Kildarc ; 
 
 
 
 
 
 Miltown, near Dublin, Co. Dublin, . 
 
 203 
 
 
 
 
 Schools on the Jiunclaijh Fuuniialion — Atblonc ; 
 
 
 
 
 
 Koscommon 
 
 80 
 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 rotal, 
 
 . 
 
 • 
 
 1,798 

 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 State of GnAHJUR Schools on Private Charitable Foundations. 
 
 373 
 
 Diocese and Town. 
 
 Eiulowraent. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 a 1 K 
 o A 
 
 a a 
 
 Armagh. 
 Duudalk. 
 
 (,'loghcr. 
 t'arrickmacross. 
 
 Clonfert, &c. 
 Eyrecourt. 
 
 C^loyne. 
 Mkileton. 
 
 Youghal. 
 liuttevaiit. 
 
 CliarlcYillo. 
 
 Cork, &c. 
 Bandon. 
 
 Kiiisale. 
 
 Deny. 
 Lifford. 
 
 Down, SiC. 
 Lisburu. 
 
 Jiilfast. 
 
 Dublin. 
 Kathfariiliam. 
 
 Elphin. 
 Klphin. 
 
 KilJare. 
 I'ortarlington. 
 
 Leigblin, &c. 
 New Koss. 
 
 Cerlaiii iinrtion.s of land called Ibc Cnminons wore };rantcd by tlip Corpora- 
 tion of Dunilalk to the l;:tc Karl of Cliinbrassil, in cjnsideration of bis 
 enilowinf; a school there witli £M yearly fcjr ever for a master, to which 
 scliool the freemen were to send their children, ])ayii\j^ only two fjuineas 
 yearly for eacli. A very commodious house ht ibr thirty boarders. — £jO 
 per annum. 
 
 Thomas, Lord Viscount Weymouth, by deed of liOth April, 1711. Branteda 
 renteluirpe for ever of i'Tl) I'lnglish money, to he paid to a resident master 
 ofagramniar sclmol for his own better support, and Ib.-kcepinf; the school- 
 house and dwellinf;-bouse in repair. Here is a scboolhouse, and a bouse 
 built for the master by Lord Weymouth a few years since, which would 
 hold fifty boarders; a small garden and a yard £75 'is. tid. per annum. 
 
 Rev. Richard Banks bequeathed the interest of all his property to the en- 
 couragement of a Protestant schoolmaster at Eyrecourt. Here is a 
 bouse in good repair, built for between £')01I or £6110. chiefly an accumu- 
 lation of the interest, and .£,'iO advanced by tlie present master. The 
 principal is now £700, which is in the bands of Henry Croasdale, Esq., 
 uiion bond at fi per cent £42 per annum. 
 
 Countess of Orkney, by deed, dated 23rd October. 1G9G, granted lands 
 (which have since been let for lives rcnew.-ible for ever) for the support of 
 this school. Here is ,a large bouse wdiich would accommodate upwards 
 of fifty boarders £?.00 per annum. 
 
 The Earl of Cork, in 1610, endowed the school \v th a large bouse, and a 
 salary of £30 a-ycar for tlie master £30 per annum. 
 
 The Countess of L:inesborough endowed the school in 1698, The bouse is Rev. James Hamilton, 
 quite uuiuhabitable, and in a bad situation; half an acre of ground. — £20 
 per annum. 
 
 Mr. Gervais Tinlcy. 
 
 Rev. W.I'incbing, a.m. 
 
 Rev. Thomas Hackett. 
 
 Rev. James Reid, 
 
 Mr. Ginkin Lovely, 
 
 19 
 
 IG 
 
 21 
 
 Endowed by the Earl of Cork. 
 £10 per annum. 
 
 Here are tl;e ruins of a large scboolhouse.- 
 
 By the Earl of Cork, in 1610, a rcntcharge of £30 yearly. The Corpora- 
 tion of Handon allow tlie master £20 per anniun more. Ko house £30 
 
 per annum. 
 
 By Lord Clififord, in 1767, £30. and by the Corporation of Kins.ale, £20. Mr. William Sillito. 
 There is a large house in tolerable repair, and a garden £.50 per annum. 
 
 By Sir Rich.ard Hansard, in the reign of .Lames I., who by will charged Rev. Thos. Burgoyne, 
 
 Rev. William Dunn. 
 
 Mr. Michael Keilly. 
 
 his estate with £30 per annum for a master, and £20 per annum for an 
 usher of a grammar school at Liflbrd. Here is a smiiU house for the 
 master, .and another for the usher, and a scboolhouse which would accom- 
 modate ten boarders. — £50 per annum. 
 
 Mr. John Handcock left £1,000 for the support of a school liere, out of the 
 interest of which, being £0 yearly, the annual sum of .£25 los. is paid 
 for the rent of twenty acres held for ever, for the use of the master, who 
 has also the remainder of the interest money. A good bouse built by 
 
 subscription among the Quakers. The scholars may be of any persuasion 
 
 £jO per annum. 
 
 By Earl of Donegal, a good house and a salary for the master of £40. 
 
 Richard Wctherall, Esq., by will, dated 24th of A]iril, 1752, devised cer- 
 tain lanils. &c., for a scboolhouse, and paying a saUirv to a Latin school- 
 m.istcr. The endowment cannot at present be ascertained. A suit has 
 been instituted for settling this charity, which has not been yet carried 
 into eftect. 
 
 Dr. Hodgson, formerly Bishop of Elpbin, bequeathed one moiety of the rents 
 of certain lands, which are said to ]noduce X'.'iO per annum, for the miiin- 
 tenance of a grammar school at Elphin. £10 yearly of the said moietj- 
 
 is paid to the Kcv. Kenny, master of the Diocesan School of Elphin 
 
 £25 per annum. 
 
 By the Earl of Galway, who, in the reign of King William, endowed this 
 school with one acre of laud, now let for two guineas per annum, and a 
 rcntcharge of £32 per annum for ever, of whicli sum £20 is for an English 
 tnaster, and £12 for a French master. The school has been kept as a 
 grammar school. Here is no house. — £34 bs. Gd. per annum. 
 
 By John Ivory, Esq., who by deed dated 1 0th February, 1713, conveyed his 
 house, offices, and gardens, formerly an Augustiuian Abbey in NewRoss,for 
 the maintenance of a Latin schoolmaster. The house has since been divided 
 into two tenements, in one of which the master resides, the other, with 
 half the offices and gardens, was let for sixty-one years at the yearly rent 
 of £7 1 lis., of which term about thirty years are une.vpired. It was lately 
 lot a second time for the said thirty years, at the yearly rent of £27 lOs. 
 per anntim and fort.v guineas fine. The master receives only the original 
 rent of £7 Ws. per annum. The Corporation of New Ross allows the 
 master £20 yearly. The part of the building in which the master resides 
 is in bad repair £7 los. per annum. 
 
 master. 
 JSIr. William M'Crea, 
 uslier. 
 
 Jlr. John Cufl". 
 
 Rev. M. G.arnett. 
 
 10 
 
 18 
 
 Rev. 
 
 Kennv. 
 
 Rev. Richard Baggs, 
 Latin master ; Sir. 
 Thos. Tirson, French 
 master. 
 
 Rev. Robert Alexander, 
 
 D.D. 
 
 18 
 
 16 
 
 12 
 
 21 
 
 27 
 
 20 
 18 
 
 32 
 12 
 
 30 
 
 34
 
 374 
 
 ENDOWED SCPIOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 State of Grammar Schools on Private Charitable Foundations — continued. 
 
 Diocese and Town. . 
 
 Endowment, 
 
 Master. 
 
 iScIiolars. 
 
 Meath. 
 Navan, &c. 
 
 Athlone. 
 
 Ossory. 
 Kilkenny. 
 
 Tuam and 
 Castlebar. 
 
 Waterford and 
 Clonmel. 
 
 Lismore. 
 
 Waterford City. 
 
 Alderman John Preston, in the year 1GS6, devised the l.inds of Cappalough- 
 lin, in the Queen's County, contaiiiiug 790 acres, then computed to be 
 worth £80 yearly, to pay £35 per anuum to a resident schoolmaster at 
 Navan. and .£25 per animm to a resident schoolmaster at Ballyroan, and 
 £20 yearly to the Blue Coat Hospital in Dublin; these lands h,ave now 
 risen to be worth £532 yearly. Here are no buildings belonging to either 
 of the said schools £ij:!2 per annum. 
 
 There is a saving of about £1,200, of which sum £876 has been put out to 
 interest at 6 per cent,, the remainder is in the hands of the agent. 
 
 Willinm Handcock, Esq., in the year 1705, bequeathed a rentcharge of 
 £20 per annum for the support of a free school at Athlone ; the master 
 to educate gratis the sons of the decayed freemen ; the corporation allow 
 the master £10 per annum more during pleasure ; the trustees are the heirs 
 of Mr. Haudcock's executors and the Bishop of Meath £20 per annum. 
 
 James, Duke of Ormond, by deed dated 18th March, 1684, charges certain 
 rectories <and tithes with tlie payment of £140 yearly for ever to a school- 
 master, for the maintenance of himself .and his ushers, and for the repairs 
 of a liirge house whicli the said Duke assigned for the use of the school. 
 The house having gone to decay, a new one has been lately built by par- 
 liamentary grants, amounting to £5,064. It vviU accommodate eighty 
 boarders in single beds £140 per anuum. 
 
 The Rev. Gordon bequeathed £150 for the support of .an English 
 
 school ; by the non-application of this money for many years, it now 
 amounts to £300. In addition to the annual interest of this bequest. Lord 
 Lucan allows the schoolmaster £20 per annum during pleasure ; there is 
 no house ; the classics are taught in this school. 
 
 Eichard and Stephen Moore, Esquires, by deed dated 7 th May, 1685, as- 
 signed certain lands then let for £42 per annum for maintaining a free 
 school in this town. The said lands are now worth £370 per .annum, but 
 have been lately let by the Earl of Mountcasbel, and the other trustees, 
 for three lives, at the yearly rent of £200 only. Here is a schoolhouse, 
 
 whicli is a large, old building, subject to a chief rent of £20 yearly 
 
 £370 per annum. 
 
 Endowed by the Earl of Cork, in 1610, with a rentcharge for ever of £30 
 yearly. Here is a house and half an acre ; the house will not well suit 
 for more boarders than are in it .at present £30 per annum. 
 
 In this city is a grammar scliool, supported by the corporation, who pay 
 
 the master £50 per annum, and allow him a house to live in £M per 
 
 annum. 
 
 The annual value of the Endowments belonging to the Grammar Schools, 
 on private charitable foundations (exclusively of the schoolhouse), is 
 about £2,200. 
 
 Navan schoolmaster, 
 vacant ; usher, Mr. 
 Robert BeU. 
 
 BaUyroan, schoolmas- 
 ter, Mr. Robert Flood , 
 usher, Mr. Reilly. 
 
 Rev. T. Handcock. 
 
 Rev. John Ellison, D.D. 36 
 
 3Ir. George Ralph. 
 
 Rev. Richard Carey. 
 
 Rev. T. Crawford. 
 
 16 
 
 29 
 
 29 26 
 
 21 
 
 27 
 
 Rev. G.ab. Stokes, d.d. 10 
 
 20 
 
 23 
 
 60 
 
 31 
 
 40 
 
 30 
 
 State of the English Schools on Private Charitable Foundations. 
 
 
 Endowment. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Diocese and Town. 
 
 rn 
 
 k 
 
 
 
 Armagh. 
 Magherafelt. 
 
 Hugh Rainey, Esq., by will dated 8th April, 1707, devised certain sums of 
 money, &e.,for the maintenance, educating, and phicing out to triides 
 twenty-four boys. This cliarity was settled by an Act of rarlianicnt, and 
 lands tor its 9ui>port were purchased in the county of Down, and leased 
 for ever under the authority of tlie said Act. Here is a large school fit 
 for twenty-four boys, but it wants some repairs. — £175 per anmim. 
 
 Alexander Richardson. 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 JO 
 
 LarkliUl. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Singleton, many years ago, bequeathed £100, the interest of which 
 to be expended in clothing and schooling six Popish boys, and to be 
 brought up Protestants. The sum having been found to be too sniiiU, 
 has been suffered to accumtdate for several years. 
 
 None. 
 
 
 
 
 
 TartaraghaD, &c. 
 
 Thomas Vemor, Esq., bequealhed, a few years since, £20 per annum for 
 ten years, for the support of Sunday Schools, to each of the incumbents 
 of the three parishes followiiig—naini-ly, Tarlaraghan, in the county of 
 .iVrmagh, and Killyman and Dunaghniore, both in the county of Tyrone. 
 — £60 per annum. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Cashcl. 
 Fcthard, &c. 
 
 The Rev. Morgan Ilickie left £3()0, two-thirds of the interest of which to 
 the parish schoolmaster of Eethard, the otliertldnl to tlie parish scliool- 
 
 niaster of Ballinteniplc. The rate of the interc.it is live per cent £15 
 
 per annum. 
 
 "^ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Toem, &c. 
 
 The Rev. .John Doherty left the interest of £200 to be paid to the school- 
 master of the parishes of 'J'oem, Templeneiry, and Doonc. The said 
 interest is rcgtdarly jiaid. — XIO per annum. 
 
 
 
 

 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 375 
 
 State of the Encjusii Schools on Private Ciiakitaijle Foundations — continued. 
 
 Diocese and Town. 
 
 Endowment, 
 
 Cloghcr. 
 Cloglier. 
 
 Tiliallen Parish. 
 
 Mouagbaii. 
 
 TuWirit. 
 
 Co. Fcrniaiiagli. 
 
 Cloync. 
 
 Casllo Harrison, 
 
 ucar Cliarluville. 
 
 Clovne. 
 
 Cork, &c. 
 Cork City. 
 
 Cork City. 
 
 Cork aty. 
 
 Cork City. 
 
 Cork City. 
 
 Robort Leslie, Bisliop of Cloglier, who died in lfi72, devised tlie interest of 
 £MU for the maintenance of the master of a free school at Cloglier. T hi.s 
 iiiDncy has never been ai)plied. Charles Leslie, Ksq., of Glasslough, in 
 the County of Moiiat;luiii, is bis descendant. 
 
 By the will'cif Dr. Garnett, Bishop of Clogher, it appears that at a inoet- 
 ing of the Trustees of Bishop Sterne's charities, it was ordered that a sum 
 not exceeding ildO shoulil be paid annually to t!ic Dean and Chapter of 
 Clogher. for the repair of tlio cathedral, and that Dr. Garnett, on the 
 creditof the said order, expended i lie sum of .£4 00 in repairing tlie cathedral. 
 This sum, when recovered, lie bequeathed to the Dean and (;hapter, in 
 trust for a schoohnasler and sclioolhouse. in the said parish. This charity 
 has never been carried into ell'ect. 1'. I'iersou, Esq., who lives in Eng- 
 land, is his representative. 
 
 Captain Richardson devised the interest of £100, at G per cent., to be 
 divided equ.ally between the iiarisli schoolmaster and llic poor of tills 
 parisli. The interest is regularly paid — i'3 per annum. 
 
 William Cairnes, Es:i., charged his estate in Monaghau with £20 yearly 
 for ever, for the support of a mathematical schoolmaster — £ao per annum. 
 
 This school was founded by the will of George Vaughan, Esq., dated 2.3rd 
 .Iiine, I7.')3. It was settled by an Act of Parliament, and the trustees 
 erected into a corporation 'I'lie boys are taught reading, writing, arith- 
 metic, agriculture, and gardening. On account of some law-suits now 
 depending, there are only thirty boy.s in the school. The buildings, which 
 are lately" erected, would accoinmodate seventy boys and upwards; there 
 is a gai'den, and three acres walled in for a nursery of forest trees for sale. 
 The nal estates produce aiuiually about £60lj, and the personal property, 
 •which lies in government and other securities, amounts to £700 nearly. 
 The whole income may be taken at about £900 per annum. 
 
 Henry Harrison, Esq., built a house for a school, and endowed it with £20 
 yearly, charged upon an estate in Dublin. The school is not kept, nor is 
 there any schoolmaster, and the house is greatly out of repair. The 
 Bishop of Cloyne has lately recovered this charity, and has caused arrears 
 of the amount of i! 100 to be secured. — £J0 per annum. 
 
 Dr. Charles Crowe, formerly Bishop of Cloyne, by a codicil, bearing date 
 the 17th March, 1719, bequeathed to his wife, and to the then treasurer 
 and precentor of Cloyne, and after their death to the pr.:centor and trea- 
 surer for the time bting, the small burjibery of Cloyne, &c., in trust for 
 clothing, educating, and binding apprentices, poor boys of the diocese (ex-, 
 cept £b per annum devised by the said codicil to another charitable purpose ) . 
 The lands are let for £(i4 \lis. 3d. yearly, and will rise to upwards of £100 
 yearly, at the expiration of the subsisting leases. From this fund three 
 boys are educated and apprenticed out at £14 per annum, and the re- 
 mainder of it is disposed of in apprentice fees to the boys educated in the 
 Sunday schools, supported by the present Bishop of Cloyne — £lj4 IBs. 3d: 
 per annum. 
 
 Mr. Joseph Harris, by will, dated 2nd August. 1723, bequeathed his estate 
 (value not speeitiedl, after the deaths of certain persons therein named, to 
 the bishop and mayor of Cork, for the time being, for the support of a 
 mathematical lecturer in the city of Cork, to be chosen by said bishop 
 and mayor; but if bis estate should be applied to other purposes, or the 
 said lecture be iie.;lected. then the said will directs that such lecturer 
 should be chosen by the directors of the school of Midleton, for the benefit 
 of the said school. 
 
 Dr. Edward Worth, Bishop of Killaloe, who died in the year 1699, founded 
 an hospital in Cork, called the Blue Coat Hospital, and endowed it with 
 lands for its maintenance, which in the year 1707 were leased for ever at 
 the yearly rent of £4 a7 16s. 
 
 The boys are maintained,educated,an.I apprenticed, chiefly to seafaringpersons. 
 
 Thomas Deane, Esq . , erected a school and almshouse near St . Peter's church, 
 Cork, in which he educated twenty b lys and twenty girls, and bound 
 them out apprentices, and maintained six old men and two old women. 
 By his will dated 1st October, 17.;4, he bequeathed rentcharge for ever, 
 amounting to £216 yearly, to the Corporatism of the City of Cork, in 
 trust, for the support of this charity. His heirs for a long time expended 
 only .£100 yearly for the above purposes, and Lord Muskerry, the present 
 heir-at-law of the donor, has not paid any thing towiirds this charity for 
 a great many years. Ko children are now received, neither are the old 
 men and women supported. The said Corporation, with the assistance of 
 the present Bishop of Cloyne has instituted a suit for the establishment of 
 this charity and for recovering the arrears £216 per annum. 
 
 Moses Deane, Esq., in the year I72S, left a concern in Cockpit-lane, Cork, 
 worth about .£136 yearly, with directions that the said yearly rent should 
 be put out to interest for the purpose (inter alia) of raising the sum of 
 £1,200 each, for the support of t'oiu" schools in the city of Cork, for the 
 education and clothing twenty boys and twenty girls in each school ; two 
 of the schools are now estabhshed. 
 
 The Green Co.at Hospital, endowed by several persons with £S2 S.s. per 
 annum. In this hospital twenty-one boys and four girls are clothed aud 
 educated, ,aiid there are four boys probationers £82 8s. per annum. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Mr. Robert M'Cullagh, 
 
 None. 
 
 Scbolarn. 
 
 None. 
 
 30 
 
 80 
 
 29 
 
 80 
 
 29
 
 376 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COxMMISSION. 
 
 State of the English Schools ou Private Charitable Foundations — continued. 
 
 Diocese and Towu. j 
 
 Endowment. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Cork City. 
 
 Cork City. 
 Cork Citv. 
 
 Derry. 
 Cloucagh. 
 
 Camus, near 
 Morne. 
 
 Down and 
 Connor. 
 
 Doaaehadce. 
 
 Down. 
 
 Bangor. 
 Drumtoo Union, 
 
 BalUntoy. 
 
 Duljlin. 
 Dublin City. 
 
 C;istleknock. 
 
 Calvcrstown. 
 
 1 lolly wood Itntli. 
 
 Santry. 
 
 .Sworls. 
 
 SwoiJs. 
 
 Mrs. Shearman and tlicRov. ArchdenconPomc'ro_v have endowed a school in | Thomas Holland. 
 Hammond's Marsh, in which boys are educated and some of them clothed. - 
 £20 16s. per annum. 
 
 Mrs. Shearman has given -£10 yearly for the snjipnrt of a school called the John Maginn. 
 Library fcjchool, in St. Finbarry's Parish. — £10 per annum. I 
 
 Mrs. Shearman, in the year 1742, endowed a school in Christ's Church Parish, I — 
 
 for the instruction of fifteen children. —£15 per annum. 
 
 There is a sclioolhou,=e and an endowment of £10 j'early by the Karl of | James Flominj; 
 Donegal and Mr. Hcrvey £10 per annum. 
 
 There is a schoolhou«e and an en<lowment of £36 yearly by the Earl of 
 
 Abereorn. — f!i) per annum. 
 In this school tirelve boys are clothed, educated, and put to trades. 
 
 Lady Margaret Alexander, by will dat?d 30th May, 1 "(M, endowed this school 
 with a rentcharge of £t)0 per annum, for instructing and clothing thirty 
 poor children, and putting; tliem out with apprentice fees. Hero is a 
 schoolhouse £60 per annum. 
 
 A donation of £20 yearly by Lord De Clifford, which was originally in- 
 tended for an English School, is now paid to the master of the diocesan 
 school of the diocese of Down. Here is a schoolhouse. — £20 per aunum. 
 
 An endowment of £j ycarlj' b}' a schoolhouse £j per annum. 
 
 An endowment by the Earl of Donegal of £22 yearly, and a house — £22 
 l)er annum. 
 
 Mrs. Jane Stewart, by wdl, charged the lanils of Claghnagh, in the county 
 of Antrim, with £1 j a-year for ever, for the support of this school. — £15 
 per annum. 
 
 Jl.any of the English Schools in this City are possessed of permanent funds. 
 The said schoois are, besides, supported by voluntary contributions, and 
 coUecticms made in the churches. The schools whieli have funds are in 
 the parislies following, namely — 
 
 St. Audoen's, £200, left by Charles Powell, Esq., .nnd four separate dona- 
 tions of £100 each, ami also £2 per annum left by .Tames Soutliwell. 
 
 St. Michael's, £jOO in Government debentures, bought out of the subscrip- 
 tions. 
 
 St Paul's, two legacies, .amounting to £16 yearl}'. 
 
 St. John's, £125 per annum, .and upwards of £300. 
 
 St. Werburgh's, six debentures. 
 
 St. Bridget's, interest of £.'j54 10<;. 
 
 There are schools and schoolhouses in all the said parishes. Mr. .Tames 
 Knight, by deed d.ated 20th November, 1725, granted a rentcharge for 
 ever of £60 yearly, for a school in St. Patrick's close £60 per annum. 
 
 No school is kept, nor is the rentcharge paid. 
 
 William Crostbwaite, Esq , by deed dated 15th August, 1720, granted £10 
 yearly for ever, issuing out of the impropriate rector3' of Follystowne, 
 in the county of Jlcath, to the Archbishop of Dublin, for the time being, 
 in trust for the eiliication of poor children of the parishes of Castleknock, 
 Mullahiilart, and Clonsillagh. — £10 per annum. 
 
 Sir Richard Levinge, who died in the year 1747, bequeathed the lanils of 
 Lecken, in the county of Westmeath. i)artly left in fee farm and partly 
 for 900 years, for £M1 16s. yearly, for tl\c maintenance and instruction of 
 poor children, and for binding them out ap])renticcs. Here are ten boys 
 maintained and instructed, and )iut out apprentices with a fee of £5 each. — 
 £91 I6.S. per annum. 
 
 The Rev. Daniel Jackson, by will, in the year 1706, charged the lands of 
 Hollywood Rath, with £6 jier annum for ever for a schoolmaster, and £30 
 for building a schoolbonse, and devised three acres of land for the same 
 puri)ose £6 per annum. 
 
 The said Mr. .Tackson also dcvipcd a profit rent is.stiing out of the lands of 
 Goulding's farm, containing forty acres, aiul held lor 99!) years to the 
 Vicar of Santry, for the time being, in trust for building a pcbiiolbouse at 
 Sanlry, and paying a schoolmaster there X6 yearly, the remainder of the 
 said profit rent to be retained by the vicar as trustee.— £6 per annum. 
 
 Dean Scardcvllle bequeathed £100, the interest of which to be laid out for 
 the support of a school in the l>arish of Swords; the said .s\nn has been 
 paid to the chapter of St. I'atrick's, who in consideration thereof charged 
 the tithei of Killelgh anil Kilda with £6 yearly for eviT. This money has 
 not been so applied for many years £6 per annum. 
 
 It appears by the ve"try book of the parish of Swords, .that an inventory 
 was taken on the 20th February, 17.39, of all the deeds and jjapers belong- 
 ing to that parii-.h ; and that there were {iiifi-r alia) a nuip of the lancls 
 there stated to have been given by the Rev. Archdeacon llewitson, for the 
 endowment of a school, and a conveyance from Iiini of a mill to the said 
 school. 
 
 B. MuUhoUand. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Stephen Ncvill. 
 William Slator. 
 William Dogood. 
 
 John andS.arahDawson. 
 
 Thomas Robinson. 
 
 Mr. Samuel Coimor. 
 
 Paul Tanner. 
 
 30 
 
 15 33 
 
 10 
 
 12 
 
 30 
 
 40 
 
 15 
 
 30 
 
 12 
 
 30 
 
 30 
 20 
 
 35 
 
 Boys, 
 Girls, 
 
 12 
 
 10 
 
 10 
 
 20 
 
 31 
 
 12 
 16 
 20 
 16 
 40 
 
 22 
 
 10
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 377 
 
 State of the English Schools on Private Charitable Foundations — continued. 
 
 Diocese and Town. 
 
 Endowment. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Scholarfl. 
 
 Finglas. 
 
 Coolock. 
 
 Rathcool. 
 Celbridgc. 
 
 Duiiganstown. 
 
 Elphin. 
 
 Pri mro.scGran ge, 
 near Sliso. 
 
 Kildare. 
 Betaglistown. 
 
 Ardea. 
 
 Kildare. 
 Monasterevan. 
 
 Cardiffstown, &c. 
 
 Killala, &c. 
 
 Frankfort. 
 
 Killaloc, &c. 
 Ballymackey. 
 
 Leighlin, &c. 
 Coolkinno. 
 
 AgholJ Union. 
 
 Kilcommon 
 Parish. 
 
 Abbeyleix. 
 limerick City. 
 
 Limerick Citv. 
 
 Vol. II. 
 
 This school is supported by the interest of money bequeathed to it, amount- 
 ing toXIO 7 s :!(/ ,and an annuity of X.i which will expire in a few years 
 
 Xl.^) 7.V. ^d. per annum. 
 
 Here is a schoolhouse, in wliicliare twenty-one boys and six girls. 
 
 Doctor Foster, formerly bishop of Raphoe, built a schoolhouse, and endowed 
 it with two acres iHljoinini,', now let for si.x guineas per annum ; and an 
 annuity of £9 bs. issuing out of a liouse in Tlioiniis-strect. In a few years 
 the pround on wliicli tlie sclio >lliunse stands will fall into the hands of 
 Charles Doinvillc, Ksc|., and t(u> annuity will soim go by direction of the 
 
 will to the Lying-in Ilosiiitiil. The .schoolhouse is now repairing 
 
 £16 l.s. Ijd. per annum. 
 
 An endowment by the late Mrs. Mercer for the maintenance and educa- 
 tion of girls. 
 
 An endowment by the liight lion. William Connolly, who granted arent- 
 charge of £i'M yearly, and there have been grants to this school by other 
 persons; the whole amounting to npwiirds of £S80 yearly. The .school- 
 house is very large and commodious, and was designed for forty girls. — 
 £380 per annum. 
 
 Captain Hoey, of the 9th Regin)cnt, granted a house and two acres of land 
 for a school. 
 
 The Rev. Kdnr.ind Nicholson granted hinds which produced ne.irly £140 
 per ann\im. for thu siijiport of this school. This charity was settled by an 
 Act of rarliami-nt, which ajijioints the Archbishop of Tuam, the liishop 
 of Elphin, the ministers of Sligo and Tannagh, and the representatives 
 of the founder, trustees ill 40 per annum. 
 
 Dr.Patrick Hewi tson, who died ."JOth March, 1783, devised to D.alrymple, 
 
 Esq., the Primate and Hishop of Kildare, near £2.000 personal property, in 
 trust for the support of a charity school, to be built on the lands of Betaghs- 
 town, for poor boys and girls to be instructed in the Protestant religion, 
 reading, writing, and arithmetic, and to be bound out with apprentice fees. 
 And the testator also devised his real estates, worth £297 3s. Id., yearly, 
 after the death of Mr. Moses Cahill, who is a very old man, for the further 
 support of the said school. This charity has not been carried into efi'ect, 
 nor has the interest of the property been demanded since the death of the 
 testator; the trustees not having been informed of their trusts. — About 
 £397 3s. "id. per annum. 
 
 A salary of £10 yearly to a schoolmaster, and a house by Lord Portarling- 
 ton. — £10 per annum. 
 
 Lady Loftus bequeathed a legacy whicit produces £3 yearly, for teaching 
 twelve children, natives of this parish. — £3 per annum. 
 
 A salary of £20 yearly, and a schoolhouse by Lord Mayo. — £20 perannum. 
 
 Here is a school, with a Imuse and two acres, supported with the interest 
 of £400, bequeathed by the late Dr. Valentine. 
 
 Lady Anne Cole bequeathed £100 towards the support of an English school. 
 No schoolhouse £() per aimum. 
 
 Rev. Burton emlowed this school with £20 3-early forever, issuing out 
 
 of ground rents in Orinond Maiket, Dublin; a house was built and a 
 small quantity of land wiis given to this charity by the late Marquess of 
 Rockingham £20 per annum. 
 
 A grant by the Rockingliam family of a house and ten acres, worth about 
 10s. an acre £5 per annum. 
 
 Two schoolhouscs and ten acres of land, worth each £10 per .annum. 
 
 A schoolhouse and one acre by Lord De Vcsci. 
 
 Mrs. Alice Craven, in the year 1 72+, granted to the Bishop, Dean, Mayor, 
 and Recorder of Limerick, and their successors for ever, several houses 
 in trust fen- the support of a charity school called the Blue Schools. The 
 rents of those houses, with the aid of other donations, ami some casual 
 benefactions, enalile the trustees to clothe and educate twenty boys, and 
 to hind them as apprentices, with a fee of £4 each. Here is a house and 
 a small yard. 
 
 Dr. Jeremiah llall, ahimt the year 1(587, bequeathed several houses in 
 I^imerick for the purpose of building a cliarity scliool and an alms-house. 
 There are twenty boys and twenty girls in tlie school who are instructed 
 and bound out with apprentice fees of two guineas each. Here is a house 
 ■with apartments for the master and mistress, and schoolrooms. 
 
 Step. LangstoDc. 
 
 William M'Michal. 
 
 George Blackman. 
 
 George Mahony. 
 
 Henry Bowen, master 
 Sarah Gault, mistress. 
 
 27 
 
 27 
 
 20 
 
 25 
 
 98 
 
 25 
 
 25 
 
 17 
 
 90 
 
 98 
 
 16 
 
 25 
 
 40 
 
 18 
 
 113 
 
 10 
 
 20 
 
 40 40
 
 378 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 State of the English Schools on Private Charitable Foundations — continued. 
 
 Diocese and Town. 
 
 Meath. 
 
 Heathfield, near 
 Leany Church. 
 
 Athlone. 
 
 Tuara, &c. 
 St. Johnstown, 
 near Longford. 
 
 Granard. 
 
 Kiltoghard. 
 
 Waterford, &c. 
 Waterford City. 
 
 Waterford City. 
 
 Endo-wment. 
 
 Master. 
 
 Scholars. 
 
 Andrew Wilson.Esq., by -will, dated 9th February, 1724, devised certain Lands 
 to the Primate, Archbishops of Dublin and Tuam. and the Bishops of 
 
 Meatli and Kildare. in trust for the support of an hijspital at , in the 
 
 Countyof Westmcath. An Actpassedintheyear 1762 for the establishment 
 of this charity, and by the said Act the trustees were erected into a corpo- 
 ration. Twenty men are maintained and clothed, and 100 boys are raiiin- 
 tained, clothed, instructed in reaJin,ff, writing, and arithmetic, and put 
 out with apprentice fees. The annual income, including the demenseand 
 the interest of fifteen government debentures, may be reckoned to amount 
 to the sum of £2,317. 
 
 Arthur St. George, Esq., left a house and £5 per annum for the support 
 of an English school. The present schoolmaster is John Boswell, who 
 employs a deputy to keep his school. — £5 per annum. 
 
 John Eaghtegan has lately sold certain lands, which, it is apprehended, 
 were devised to the use of an English school, to which he had been ap- 
 pointed schoolmaster, and has run away. The lands contain sixty acres, 
 and are worth 16s. an acre. — £48 per annum. 
 
 The Rev. Essex Edgworth, upwards of fifty years ago, erected a school, 
 and endowed it with an acre of land and a salary of £7 yearly; the 
 master is in possession of the acre of land and receives the salary, but the 
 schoolhouse has been sufl'ered to fall into ruins — £7 per annum. 
 
 Lord Mountratli endowed this school with £30 yearly, in lands lying in the 
 county of Leitrim. — £30 per annum. 
 
 Dr. Nathaniel Foy, formerly Bishop of Waterford, endowed this school 
 with lands, &c., whicli produce, yearly, £323 lis., for the clothing, in- 
 structing, and binding out apprentices of poor boys. In the vear 1724, 
 an Act passed for settling this charity. The rents of the lands will rise 
 to almost double the sum above mentioned on the fall of some old lives. 
 
 It is a well regulated charity £323 1 Is. 
 
 The trustees have saved above £1,400: of which sum £1,000 was out 
 at interest, and the remainder is in the Bank at Newport. 
 
 The Blue, Girls, School was founded and endowed by the Mason family. 
 The girls are taught reading and every kind of needlework, and some of 
 them to write and cipher. In the year 1784, Counsellor Alcock left 
 £1,000 to this charity, with directions that the interest of it should be ap- 
 plied for marriage portions and .apprentice fees ; the money has been put 
 out to interest at six per. cent. Previous to this legacy, the income of this 
 charity was £8 1 . Tliere is a balance in the hands of Sir John Alcock, Exe- 
 cutor of the said Counsellor Alcock, of upwards of £300 £141 per annum. 
 
 The annutil value of thcendowments belonging to the English schools, on pri- 
 vate charitjible foundations, exclusively of Uie schoolhouses, is about£7, 400. 
 
 John BosweU. 
 
 James MiUs. 
 
 Rev. James Bennett. 
 
 Pat Flanagan. 
 
 Johannas Wilcocks. 
 
 100 
 
 75 
 
 34 
 
 100 
 
 75 
 
 34 
 
 Recapitulation of the Annual Funds of the existing Schools. 
 
 Schools on Public Foundations. 
 
 English Parish Schools — In the twenty-nine dioceses from which returns 
 of tlicse schools have been received, no more than 435 salaries, usually 
 of 40*. each, were paid to schoolmasters ; no returns have been received 
 from the other five dioceses; but if, for the salte of this calculation, we 
 may suppose that the number of saUiries paid in tiiese five dioceses was 
 in the same proportion as the twenty-nine dioceses above mentioned, 
 the whole sum now paid by the clergy for the support of this class of 
 schools may be taken at about ........ 
 
 Diocesan Free Schools. — By tlie 12tli of Elizabeth there shotdd be a free 
 school in every diocese. There are tliirty-four dioceses in this kingdom, 
 but there are only twenty diocesan selioolmasters, who receive salaries 
 from £20 12.?. 4rf., yearly, at the lowest, to -f40, yearly, at the liigliest, 
 
 Royal Free Schools. — The lands for the support of tliese schools, iueluding 
 the lands near Wicklow, produce, annually, ...... 
 
 Erasmus Smith's Schools. — Tiic lands produce .£4,249 4a-. 10c/., yearly; 
 and to tiiis sum may be added £225 more, if in this calculation of 
 annual funds we may be allowed to estimate at £5 per cent., the balance 
 of money due to the governors of the said schools, amounting to upwards 
 of £4,500, 
 
 Hibernian School for Soldiers' Children, in Dublin, ..... 
 
 Hibernian Marine School, in Dublin, ....... 
 
 Hospital of King Charles II., in Dublin, 
 
 Protestant Cliartcr Schools, 
 
 Schoiils on Private Chnritablf Foundations, viz. : — 
 Grammar Schools, about .......... 
 
 English Schools, about .......... 
 
 Total annual funds, ....... 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 1,000 
 
 616 5 7 
 3,928 17 3i 
 
 4,474 
 
 4 
 
 10 
 
 2,514 
 
 16 
 
 101 
 
 1,729 
 
 7 
 
 3 
 
 1,827 
 
 8 
 
 6 
 
 20,105 
 
 17 
 
 n 
 
 2,200 
 
 
 
 
 
 7,400 
 
 
 
 
 
 £'45,796 
 
 18 
 
 U
 
 DOCUMENTS. 379 
 
 Appendix, No. 2 An Estimate of tlin Annual Expense of English Parish Schools, Aiipindix to Report of 
 
 as proposed to bo cstabli.sl.ccl. ''iSr/^S' 
 
 In Ulster, which contains 250 benefices, it is pinposcd tliat there should 
 be 250 of iht'se sclioolti, and that eacli sehoohiia-sttr, who is also to 
 bo parisli clerk, should teach twenty free scholars, and have a. yearly 
 salary of £20 
 
 And for copy-books, pens, paper, premiums, &c., ..... 1 
 
 The annual expense of one school would then be . , . . £21 
 
 "Which, for 250 schools, would be £5,250 
 
 In tlie other three provinces, which contain 850 benefices, it is pro- 
 ■ posed that there should be 850 of these schools, and that each school- 
 master, who is also to be parish clerk, should teach twenty-five free 
 scholars, and have a yearly salary of £20, ..... £20 
 
 And for copy-books, pens, paper, premiums, «S:c., . . . . 1 10 
 
 1791. 
 
 The annual expense of one school would then be .... £21 10 
 Which, for 850 schools, would be 18,275 
 
 Total annual expense of 1,100 parish schools, .... £23,525 
 
 Ways and Means. 
 
 By the Incumbents of 1,100 benefices, at 405. each £2,200 
 
 „ Parishioners in vestry a like sum, ....... 2,200 
 
 „ Presentments for parish clerks in 1,100 benefices, at £20 yearly, 
 
 each 22,000 
 
 „ Impropriators, ...... .... 1,000 
 
 „ So much of the Annual Parliamentary Grant to the Incorporated 
 Society as serves to support the four Charter School Nurseries, 
 which, in the opinion of the late Mr. Howard, are unnecessary, 
 and ought to be suppressed, in which opinion we also agree, . 1,900 
 
 29,300 
 
 Annual surplus, . £5,775 
 
 This annual surplus would be abundantly sufficient for hiring scboolhouses, or for raising 
 a sum for building them, and also for books for the Sunday scliools. 
 
 Appendix, No. 3 An Estimate of the Annual Expense of the Diocesan Free 
 
 Schools, as pi'oposed to be improved. 
 
 It is pi'oposed that there should be one Free School in each of the twenty-two 
 Bishoprics ; the head master to be paid a salary of £50, yearly, and the 
 mathematical master to be paid a salary of £30, yearly; the expense of one 
 school would then be £80, which, for twenty-two schools, is . . , . £1,760 
 
 Ways and Means. 
 
 By the bishop, clergy, and impropriators of the several dioceses, being 
 
 thirty-four in number, at £50 each, upon an average, . . . £1,700 
 „ County presentments, a like sum, ....... 1 700 
 
 „ So mucli of the Annual Parliamentary Grant to the Incorporated 
 Society as will be superfluous, if Mr. Howard's sentiments, in which 
 we also concur, should be adopted relative to the suppressing of 
 remote Charter Schools, ........ 1 924 
 
 5,324 
 
 Surplus, ... £3,564 
 
 This surplus might defray the expense of 396 exhibitions for the support of gratuitous 
 scholars, at £9, yearly, each, which would be at the rate of eighteen boys for each of the 
 twenty-two bishoprics. 
 
 Appendix, No. 4 — ^An Estislate of the Annual Expense of a Professional Academy, 
 
 proposed to be established. 
 
 One hiindred boys to be maintained and clothed at £9, yearly, each, . . . £900 
 .Salaries of head master and under master, two assistants, a steward, who is to 
 have the care of the eleemosynary boys out of school, and control of domestic 
 economy, on plan of Christ's Hospital, London ; and a matron, former, gar- 
 dener, mechanic, servants, and other incidental charges. All the assistants, 
 except the twoiirst, to be paid by the master out of his profits, by stipendiary 
 boys, . 1,200 
 
 Total annual expense, £2,100 
 
 The entrance money paid by stipendiary schools to be applied to the establishment of a 
 library, piirchaee of drawings, models, &c. 
 
 Vol. II. '3 2
 
 380 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Mixed Education. ' 
 
 The Synodical Ad- 
 dress of the Council 
 ofThurles. 
 
 No. XX. — Mixed Education. 
 
 Papers relied on by Mr. Hughes in the discussion on the Draft Report, 23rd December, 
 1856, and presented on the 30th January, 1857, to the Commissioners engaged in pre- 
 paring the Draft Report, with a request that they should be published amongst the 
 documents of the Commission. 
 
 The Synodical Addkess of the Fathers of the National Council of Thurles to their 
 beloved Flock, the Catholics of Ireland. 
 
 "Go, and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying: Thus saitli the Lord, I have remembered thee, pitying thy 
 youth and tlie love of thy espousals, when thou foUowedst me in the desert, in a land that is not sown. 
 
 "3. Israel is holy to the Lord, the first fruits of his increase ; all they that devour him offend ; evils shall come 
 upon them, sailh the Lord. 
 
 " 4. Hear ye the word of the Lord, O house of Jacob, and all ye fnmilics of the house of Israel." — Jebemias, 
 chap. ii. 
 
 Very Rev. and Rev. Brethren, and you our beloved children in Jesus Christ, the objects 
 of our pastoral charge and devoted affection, it is with feelings of profound gratitude to the 
 " Father of ^lercies and God of all consolation," as well as of uns])eakable joy at the promo- 
 tion of vour best and highest interests, that we announce to you the happy termination and 
 "•ratifying results of the most solemn and important assembly that has been held by the Irish 
 Church since the days of her glorious apostle, St. Patrick. To you who are so identified by 
 affection, as well as by principle, with the interests of that Church — who are so feelingly alive 
 to all that concerns lier honour and her welfare — whose attachment to her neither distress, 
 nor fitmine, nor nakedness, nor danger, nor persecution, nor the sword, has been able to 
 sever or relax — to you, our dearly beloved children, it must furnish a subject of heartfelt 
 thanksgiving to the " Giver of all good gifts," as well as of inexpressible gratification to your- 
 selves, to learn that an assembly, convoked under the highest and most solemn auspices, and 
 charged with the most momentous interests, hashajjpily succeeded in devising such measures 
 and enacting such regulations for the renovation of discipline, and the promotion of piety and 
 morals, as cannot fail, with the aid of the Divine Mercy and your zealous co-operation, to be 
 productive of the most salutary results. Our enactments we shall immediately submit, with 
 the profoundest reverence and submission, to the judgment of the Apostolic See, and we will 
 not publish them until we shall have obtained the necessary approbation. We are persuaded 
 that henceforward this Coiuicil w ill become an epoch in the history of oxn' National Church — 
 an epoch, we humbly trust in a paternal Providence, which will not only be found pregnant 
 with immediate benefits, but which will throw its directing light and influence on the future. 
 Charged in a special manner by Almighty God with the guardianship of the faith, placed 
 as sentinels on the watch-towers of Israel, to warn the faithful by day and night of the approach 
 of danger; imperatively bound, as we are, at all hazards and sacrifices, to denounce those 
 ravening wolves that appear in the clothing of sheep — those apostles of infidelity and error, 
 who veil their unholy designs under an appearance of simjilicity and godliness ; the measures 
 necessary fur the preservation and diffusion of the faith, formed, as you may have naturally 
 anticipated, the first object of our anxious deliberations. Profoundly impressed with the 
 conviction that "without faith it is impossible to please God," that "he who believeth not 
 will be condemned," and that, according to the apostle, every other acquisition is to be 
 esteemed as loss compared "with the excellent knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ," we 
 have viewed with alarm the perils by which it is surrounded, in these days of difficulty and 
 trial, and given to the measures necessary for its defence the matiu'e reflection and jiatient 
 examination which the momentous importance of the subject required. As faith constitutes 
 the fountain of all those graces and blessings by which the mystical spouse of Jesus Christ 
 is vivified and adorned, the moment its current is stopped or defiled " the whole head 
 becomes sick, and the whole heart sad; from the sole of the foot unto the. top of the 
 head there is no soundness therein" (Isaias, chap, i., v. 5, 6). Those broken cisterns, of which 
 the jirnphct s])('aks (Jeremias, chap, ii., v. 13), those vain devices of liinnan wistloni, can 
 furnish no sulistitute to the thirsty soid for that stream of life which flows from the throne 
 of (Jod, reHccting His ])urity and imparting His inuiiortality. Its jiossession is more than 
 sufficient to compensate all tiie sufferings of this life, whilst there is no anu)unt of this world's 
 wealth or glory that could counterbalance the calamity of its loss. Hence, when the 
 Almighty ])unishes a people in His anger, when it is not the chastisement of a father seeking 
 the aniendnient of his ehildren, but the vengeance of an inexorable judge, it is no longer 
 the famine that kills the body, the pestilence or the sword he employs, but the famine of the 
 word of life, the sjiirit of error antl false j)rophets, that become the instruments of His fury in 
 desolating the moral world. 
 
 No wonder, then, that your forefathers, recognizing and a])preciating as they ought this 
 most precious gift of Goil, generously enconntcreil chains, and exile, and death, for its 
 preservation; that you yourselves endured so long the most galling civil disabilities rather 
 than compromise its ])rinciples or endanger its purity; and that, during the late visitation 
 of famine, so many heroic soids were found amongst your destitute brethren, to prefer the 
 agonizing death of hunger to the bribe of the tempter, who ])rottered the food and the life 
 of this world as the reward of .'ipostacy. 
 
 There is not a ])age of your history, however dark and disastrous in other respects, that 
 is not brightened by the heroic fortitude, the generous self-.sacrifice, the jiersevering 
 devotedneas which you have exliibited in the defence and preservation of the faith. Its
 
 DOCUMENTS. 381 
 
 memorials are to be found on tlie mountain to]) and in the deptlis of your valleys, not the MUid Er/ucaiioH. 
 
 less dear because insciiaralily linked witii the holiest affections and most toucliin<f traditions „, 
 
 ,• ,1 , ".11 1-1 • 1 • ii 1 1 1 I--. , Ine Syiiiidical Ad- 
 
 01 a jiersecutecl pi'ople; nor tlie less I'ndurin^ because crmisoned in the olood ot its martyrs, dr. ^s ol'tlio Cuuncil 
 
 It is the all-vivityinir jirineiple of faitli, which, workini^ through charity, has, in the midst ol'Tlmrks. 
 of the poverty and desolation ot modern times, covered the land with those countless insti- 
 tutions of benevolence that strike the eye on every side; which has raised up so many noble 
 tem])les for the worship of the Most High ; and which sends, at tiie ])resent <lay, its 
 missionaries to tlie eastern and western worlds, as formerly to the vai'ious countries f)f 
 Euro])e, to announce the tidings of sahation to those "who sit in darkness and the shadow 
 of death." May that glorious distinction bi' for ever associatecl with the name of Ireland ! 
 May neither fraud nor force be able to wrest from her the emblem of that "victory which 
 overcometh the world" (John, 1 Ep.), which has been the pride of her prosjjcritv, and the 
 consolation of her sorrows; but may her deathless attachment to the most sacred of]jrin- 
 ciples, and her generous self-devotion in the noblest work of charity, form the glory of her 
 future history, as they have been the brightest record of the ]»ast! 
 
 As rulers of the Church of Christ, chief pastors of His flock, religiously responsible to 
 the Prince of Pastors for every soul eonnnitted to our charge, it forms, as is obvious, our 
 first and paramount duty to attend to the )iastures in which they feed — the doctrine with 
 which they are nourished. And surely if ever there was a period which called for the 
 unsleeping vigilance, the prudent foresight, the intrepid and self-sacrificing zeal of our 
 august ministry — that period is the present. The alarming spectacle which the Christian 
 world exhibits at the jiresent day, the novel but formidable forms in which error presents 
 itself, and the manifold evils and jierils by which the Church is encompassed, must be 
 evident to the most superficial observer. It is no longer a single heresy, or an eccentric 
 
 fanaticism — the denial of some revealed truth, or the excesses of some extravagant error 
 
 but a comprehensive, all-])ervading, well-digested system of unbelief, suited to every cai)acity 
 and reaching every intellect, that corrupts and desolates the moral world. Is not such the 
 calamitous spectacle which the Continent of- Eurojje offers to us at this moment? Educa- 
 tion, the source of ail intellectual life, Ijy which the niiud of man is nui tured and (Iiscipline<l, 
 his ])rincii)les determined, his feelings regulated, his judgments fixed, his cliaracter formed, 
 has been forcibly dissevered from every connexion with religion, and made the vehicle of 
 that cold scepticism and heartless inditferentism which have seduced and corrupted youth, 
 and by a necessary consequence, shaken to its centre the whole fabric of social life. Sepa- 
 rated from her heavenly monitor, learning is no longer the organ of that wisdom which 
 cometh from above, which, according to St. James, is "chaste, peaceable, modest, easv to be 
 persuaded, consenting to the good, full of mercy and good fruits, without judging, without 
 dissimulation;" but rather of that wisdom which he describes as " eartldy, sensual, and 
 devilish" (James, c. iii., v. 15, 17). 
 
 It is, we feel assured, unnecessary to observe to you, that of all modes of propagating 
 error, education is the most subtle and dangerous, furnishing, as it does, the aliment by 
 which the social body is sustained, which circulates through every vein and reaches every 
 member; and that if this aliment should prove to be corrupt or deleterious, it will not fail 
 to carry moral disease and death to the entire system. Hence the awful obligations we are 
 under, at the peril of our souls, of watching over the education of the people whom God 
 has intrusted to our charge. 
 
 Listen to the emphatic words in w Inch the present illustrious Pontiff sets forth the dangers 
 to which youth is exposed at the present time, and the duties which are placed upon the 
 pastors of the people in their regard. "It is incumbent upon you," he says, "and upon 
 ourselves, to labour with all diligence and energy, and with great firnmess of jiurpose, and 
 to be vigilant in every thing that regards schools and the instruction and education of 
 children and youths of both sexes. For you well know that the modern enemies of religion 
 and human society, with a most diabolical spirit, direct all their artifices to jjervert the minds 
 and hearts of youth from their earliest years. Wherefore, they leave nothing untried, thev 
 shrink from no attempt to withdraw schools and every institution destined for the education 
 of youth, from the authority of the Church and the vigilance of her holy pastors" (Encyl. 
 Letter of Pius IX., 8th December, 1849). Such are the words of the Vicar of Jesus Christ, 
 which show the responsibility luider which we aiX' placed, and jioint out our duty to jirotect 
 from the insidious snares laid for their destruction, the lambs of the fold — that most helpless 
 but precious portion of the flock of Jesus Christ, w hich the prophet represents as carried in 
 His bosom. 
 
 It is by the sternest sense of duty — by a painful but irresistible feeling of necessitv — that 
 we are compelled, dearly beloved, to announce to you that a system of education, fraught 
 with grievous and intrinsic dangers, has, within the last twelve months, been l)rought to 
 your own doors. It is presented to you, we deplore to say, in tlioso collegiate institutions 
 which have been established in this country, and associated with the name of our august, 
 most gracious, and beloved Sovereign. Far be it from us to impugn for a moment the 
 motives of its originators. The system may have been devised in a spirit of generous and 
 impartial policy ; but the statesmen who framed it were not acquainted with the 
 inflexible nature of our doctrines, and with the jealousy with which we are obliged to avoid 
 every thing ojjposed to the purity and integrity of our faith. Hence, those institutions, 
 which would have called for our profound and lasting gratitude luul they been framed ir; 
 accordance with our religious tenets and principles, must now be considered as an evil of a 
 formidable kind, against which it is our imperative duty to warn you with all the energy of 
 our zeal and all the weight of our authority.
 
 382 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 ^fiXi•d Education. In pointing out tlie dangers of such a system, Ave onl y repeat the instructions that Iiave 
 
 _,, .„ —r- . . been given to us by the Vicar of Jesus Christ ; he, to wliom were given the keys of the 
 
 dress of the Council kingdom (Matth. c. xvi., v. ID); to whom was committed the charge, not only of the himbs, 
 
 ofThurles. but of the sheep, that is, of tlie entire flock, pastors as well as people (John, c. xxi., v. 17); 
 
 he, for whose faith the prayer of Christ was offered (Luke, c. xxii., v. 31, 32); whom St. 
 
 Chrysostom so appropriately designates as the teacher of the whole world (Horn. 88, in Joan) ; 
 
 he, Peter, has spoken to us by Pius as he spoke to the Fathers of Chaleedom by Leo, and 
 
 pronounced this system of education to be ti-aught with " grievous and intrinsic dangers" to 
 
 faith and morals; has declared that "religion can expect nothing but loss from it;'" and that 
 
 your bishops " should take no part in carrying it into effect." 
 
 Following the invariable practice of our own Church, as well as that of every churcli con- 
 nected with the centre of unity, and, in particular, the instructions given in one of those 
 synods convoked and presided over by St. Patrick, — " if any questions arise in this island 
 (Ireland), they are to be referred to the Apostolic See" (Si qitcB tjiKE.stiu/ics in line I /inula 
 oriantitr, ml Si'ili-m ApoatuJicam refcruiitiir, Can. S. Piifritie, apiid Wilkin, Cancil t. 1 , p. 6) — 
 we laid at the feet of our present venerable and beloved Pontiff' the plan of instruction that 
 had been proposed to us, with a statement of the diversity of opinion that prevailed on the 
 subject ; because we knew, to use the language of St. Columbanus, addressing one of the great 
 pontiffs of antiquity, that it was ours " to call upon, to put questions, to beseech him ; and his 
 not to withhold what had been freely bestowed, but to put out his talents to interest, to give 
 at Christ's behest the bread of doctrine to those who sought for it from him"- — (.S'A Coliimb. 
 Ejiiai. /., ad Greg. Paji. ajind Gulland Bihl. Vet. Pat. t. 12, p. 346). After a most searching 
 and protracted examination of the statements and facts that were urged on either side, 
 availing himself of every resource of counsel and information which he could procui'e, 
 demanding and receiving from every member of the Irish episcopacy his individual opinion 
 on the subject, making it the object of his long and anxious deliberation, and pouring forth 
 his soul in prayer to Him who promised to abide with his Church, even to the consummation 
 of time, the successor of Peter pi-onounced his final judgment on the subject. All contro- 
 versy is now at an end — the judge has spoken, the question is decided. 
 
 Recognizing, with reverential awe, in that decision, the voice of him who hath said, " He 
 who hears you, hears me ; he who despises you, despises me ;" — this synod has received, not only 
 with profound respect, but with unanimous acclamation, the decisions and instructions which 
 were asked for in the name of the Iri.sh Church. This synod now solemnly communicates 
 to you the rescripts of the Holy See, which we have received on this important matter, that 
 they may serve to guide and regulate your conduct ; we do not atld any thing to the 
 instructions that have been given ; neither will we suffer any thing to be detracted fi'om 
 their importance.* 
 
 That A'ou, our fivithful children in Jesus Christ, will exhibit the same spirit of faith and 
 docility; that you will recognize in the supremacy of Peter and his successors, not the work 
 of man but the appointment of heaven; not a civil tribunal, but a divine institution; not an 
 arena fur controversy, but the judgment-seat at which every controversy is to be decided; 
 is am])ly guaranteed to us by the unswerving and untarnished allegiance which has bound 
 the Iri.sh people to the Holy See, from the first moment it was jilighted through its envoy 
 and apostle, St. Patrick, to the present day, in the midst of every trial and temptation that 
 could sever or relax it ; as well as by j'our uniform and filial obedience to those pastors to 
 whom, you well know, your happmess is far dearer than their oA^ni existence; and who, in 
 the day of peril and suffering, have so often proved the extent and self-devoting spirit of the 
 charity they bear you by " laying down their lives for their flocks." 
 
 It is then, in our conviction, quite ininecessary to assure you, that every thing which 
 concerns your welfare — all that regards the advancement of your interests, wdietlier tem- 
 poral or eternal — is bound up with our warmest affections; that there is no exertion, no 
 sacrifice, compatible with principle, which we would not cheerfully make, to ameliorate your 
 condition and promote your prosperity. As a pledge of the sincerity of those sentiments, 
 we have determined to make every effort in our power to establish a sound and comprehen- 
 .sive system of University education, that will combine all that is practically useful in the 
 jtresent system, with all that is pure and edifying in religious doctrine. A committee has 
 been a])pointed by this Synod to examine into the details of tliis most important jjroject, 
 and to carry it into execution. The difficulties to be contendeil with are, indeed, great; 
 but if we meet them in the spirit of fiiith — if we act with Christian union, they will soon 
 disa])j)ear. We have within ourselves liere, at home, and in the persons of our brethren 
 who are scattere<l not only throughout the sister kingdoms and the British colonies, but 
 throughout the Continent of America, amjile resources — zeal, learning, talent, and the pecu- 
 niary means for the accomplishment of such an object. 
 
 As great undertakings cannot be realized in a moment, some time will be necessary for 
 collecting and combiMing these resources, and giving maturity- and organization to the ])lan. 
 During the brief interval that must intervene, previous to the realization of this most desir- 
 able object, you can procure for your children, as you have ever done, the advantages of a 
 liberal and comprehensive education in those excellent collegiate establishments of your own 
 Clmrcli that are to be found in this country and the sister kingdom. 
 
 But, as in the days of ))riuiitive fervour, so now in those latter times, there are to be found 
 " spirits of error, disobedient, vain tidkers, and seducers," " wise in their own conceit," and 
 puffed up with the little knowledge they possess — men "whose speech crecpeth like a 
 
 Kide Appendix [pp. 38B-389, infra.]
 
 DOCUMENTS. 383 
 
 canker" (2 Tim. c. xi. v. 17j, :uul wlio.se seared consciences are dead to every sense of duty Mixed Educaiiun. 
 and every feeling of remorse; men wlio, like the first tempter, hold out the advantages of The Synodical Ad- 
 superior enligliteiinient as the reward of disobedienee, and wluj, apostates in ail l)Uttlie name, dress of tlie Council 
 dai-e to jjreach up eontumaey and reheilion against tliat Cinireii of wliieh our Lord hatli "' 'Hiurles. 
 said, that those wlio iiear her not are to be ranked wilh tiie lieathen and the pidjjican. Since 
 such men are to be found, it becomes our solemn duty to remind you how rigorous the obli- 
 gations are by which the parent is bound to watch over the salvation of his children. You 
 are aware that those children arc only a saci'cd deposit, entrusted by God to your care for 
 a short time; that although IK; made use of you to give tliem existence, they are entirely 
 His property; that being indebted to Him for all tliey possess, both as to soul aiul body, 
 and made to His image, and redeemed by His bhjod, your first gi'eat duty is to jirovide, as 
 far as lies in your power, for the salvation of their souls. It matters not how Idinneless 
 your life may be in other respects, if you neglect this duty; if, through criminal ambition, 
 or an inordinate desire of filthy lucre, you expose the soul of your child to grievous danger ; 
 then, assuredly, do you incur the reprobation pronounced by the Apostle on " the man who 
 has no care of his own, and especially those of his own household," and who, l)y such con- 
 duct, " denies the faith, and is worse than an infidel" (2 Tim., c. v. v. 8). The man who 
 hid his talent was condemned: what it he had lost or destroyed it? what if he had given 
 it to his master's enemies? The faithless jiastor must answer blood for blood, soul for soul. 
 Can the treacherous and uiniatui'al parent, whose cruelty is far worse than that of Herod, 
 who only sacrificed the bodies of his youthful victims, expect to escape with impunity? 
 
 " He," says Jesus Christ, " that shall scandalize one of these little ones who believe in me, 
 it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should 
 be drowned in the dejith of the sea. Woe to the world because of scandals, for it must 
 needs be that scandals come ; but, nevertheless, woe to that man by whom the scandal 
 Cometh" (Matt. c. xviii. v. 6). That the woes thus pronounced against the man of scandal 
 must fill with aggravated force on the head of the parent who, after having been solemnly 
 warned by the authority established by Christ for his direction, thrusts his child into the 
 furnace of danger, immolating him to the Moloch of avarice or ambition, is so obvious as 
 to requii'c neither jiroof nor illustration. If the learnijig, riches, or honours, to be gained 
 by such a sacrifice be pleaded in excuse, we can only reply, with Jesus Christ, in the 
 Gospel, " What doth it profit a man to gain the whole world, and to lose his own soul ? or 
 what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" (Matt. c. xvi. v. i'o). Nor is it to be 
 doubted that, even in this world, such conduct would be visited by the retributive justice 
 of God — that the daring disobedience, which trampled on the authority of the Church, would 
 not be unlikely to receive its heavy chastisement from the ungrateful and rebellious child ; 
 and that the pride which spurned the salutary restraints of religion, would meet its deepest 
 and most bitter humiliation from the very object in which it had centred its fondest affec- 
 tions. That a system of education, the dangers of which have been publicly and solemnly 
 pointed out by the Church, wdiich is the pillar and the ground of truth — a system against 
 the dangers of which the history of modern Europe bears witness, will meet with your 
 marked reprobation; that you will not yield it encouragement or patronage of any kind, 
 but that you will save your children from its influence — is an assurance supplied to us by 
 your uniform and devoted obedience to the voice of that Church, and attested by every page 
 of your history, and by every act of your lives. 
 
 The solemn warning which we address to you against the dangers of those collegiate 
 institutions extends, of course, to every similar establishment known to be repilete with 
 danger to the faith and morals of your children — to every school in which the doctrines 
 and practices of your Church are impugned, and the legitimate authority of your pastors 
 set at nought. Alas! our country abounds with too many public institutions of this kind, 
 which have been the occasion of ruin to thousands of those souls that were redeemed by the 
 precious blood of Jesus Christ ; but still they bear the perils with which tliey are replete inscribed 
 upon their front, and they are known by all to be most dangerous and anti-Catholic. It is 
 not necessaiy, nor was it ever necessary, to raise our voice against establishments so 
 avowedly hostile. It is when the wolf a.ssunies the clothing of the sheep that the pastor 
 has most reason to tremble for his flock, and to exert all his corn-age and energy for its 
 defence. 
 
 In guardin": vou ao-ainst the paths of error — warning you against those deceitful lights 
 which lead to the lowest dejjths of mental darkness, and to the worst and most fatal species 
 of ignorance — you cannot fail to recognise that character of true enlightenment, and zealous 
 concern for the real interests of knowledcre, which have invariablv distinguished the reliiiion 
 to which you belong. 
 
 The instructress of Eurojie in arts and literature — the civilizer of every barbarous nation 
 into which she has carried the Gospel — the foundress of tliose innumerable schools of learn- 
 ing which illustrated this island, in former ages, as well as the inspirer of those heroic sacri- 
 fices, and of that deathless struggle in her cause when, at a subsequent period, a barbarous 
 policv punished education as a crime, and sought to extinguish the intellect of a people, the 
 Catholic Church has continually borne the torch of knowledge in her hand during her mis- 
 sionary career, or sheltered it in her sanctuary, wdien the stormy passions of the savage 
 horde, or the calcidating cruelty of the oppressor, sovight to quench it for ever. And if 
 she cannot, like other forms of belief, vary at will the immutable truth of which she is the 
 depository — if she cannot blend and fuse its inflexible principles into a community of creed
 
 384 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Mh-ed Education, and doctriiie — if no liuman consideration can induce her to sacrifice an iota of tliat Gospel 
 c.~7~.\ 11 which will outlivt' the heavens and the earth — it is not because the charity with which lier 
 dress of the Coiinoil heai't continually burns is less comprehensive, or the works of beneficence in wliich her 
 of Tliurk's. hands are vinceasinirly employed, are less numerous and various than those of other reli- 
 
 tjious institutions which arrogate to themselves the possession of a more liberal philanthropy. 
 This adherence to the cause of truth is not only perfectly compatible with the exercise of 
 charity, but a condition indispensable to its existence. He who was charity itself, whose 
 lips continually ])reached, and whose life so beautifully and touchingly illustrated its doc- 
 trine, pronounced the woes that were to lifiht u])on the proud and self-sufficient Pharisee, and 
 denounced, with unmitigated severity, the teachers of error. 
 
 The same irreligious spirit which, by its cold indift'erentism, chills and deadens our moral 
 nature, and then leaves it a prey to corruption, after having vitiated the education of the 
 Continent, has, as might naturally be expected, diffused itself through its literature; for 
 anti-Christian philosophy, assuming the most popular form, has de\'oted all its reasoning and 
 research to sapi)ing the foundations of faith ; and gonius, seduced anrl corrupted by its sug- 
 gestions, has lavished his highest gifts in adorning, with all embellishments of taste and elo- 
 quence, the grossest sensualism and vice that could corrupt and degrade even the society of 
 the Pagan world. There is no medium for its diffusion — from the philosophic essay to the 
 work of fiction — on which the apostleship of infidelity has not drawn, in order to extinguish 
 the truths of Christianity in the understanding, or to banish its pure and exalting morality 
 from the heart. Unfortunately, many of those works have been translated into j'our own 
 - language — circulated in every variety of form, from the most ornate to the cheapest and 
 most accessible — and, we bitterly lament to state, are occasionally to be seen even in the 
 precincts of the domestic circle, where nothing undefiled should be permitted to enter; 
 but whence the anxious vigilance of parental love, as well as its awful responsibility, ought 
 to have been prompt in banishing, wuth indignation, every thing calculated to taint the 
 purity or unfix the principles of its j-outhful charge. 
 
 Nor are works of a similar spirit and tendency wanting in our own literature, adapted 
 to every class of readers and to every grade of intellect — reviving the old errors, and fer- 
 tile in the production of new ones — flattering the pride of the understanding, and stimu- 
 lating the passions of the heart — diffusing their moral poison in every department of learn- 
 ing, and through every form of publication by which the popular mind can be reached. 
 That bad books form a most powerful instrument of Satan in perverting and destroying 
 souls, is a melancholy fact, proved every day by the ruin, not only of individuals, but of 
 whole communities ; and hence the rigorous oldigation of every pastor, parent, and guar- 
 dian, to save, as far as in their power, those under their charge from the demoralizing influ- 
 ence of those impious and licentious works. As Revelation proclaims to us, " that those 
 who love danger shall perish therein," and that we should incessantly " watch and pray, 
 lest we enter into temptation," and that we carry the treasure of divine grace in earthen 
 vessels, as, in fine, the whole tenor of its teaching is to inculcate the humility and self- 
 distrust that fly the occasions of sin, not the pride and self-stifficiency that court them — all 
 should be studiously on their guard against the daring curiosity or intellectual pride that 
 would spurn a restraint which the Church, in every age, has deemed so necessary for the 
 moral government of the faithful. 
 
 We exhort you, dearly beloved, with all the fervour of our souls, to be more vigilant 
 than ever in these days of error and infidelity. Avoid all books in which your holy religion 
 is assailed; cast away those corrupt and condemned versions of the Scriptures, those tracts 
 teeming with calumny and misrepresentation, that are so industriously circulated by the 
 agents of the Bible and other such Societies. We caution you also against those jiublications 
 ifi which loyalty is treated as a crime, a spirit of sedition is insinuated, and efforts are made 
 to induce you to make common cause — to sympathize with those ajiostlcs of socialism and 
 intidelity who, in other countries, under the pretence of promoting civil liberty, not only 
 undermined the foundations of every govennnent, but artfully assaile<l the rights of 
 the Apostolic See, and sought for the destruction of the holy Catholic Church. 
 
 Tiie heroic sacrifices made by our destitute brethren in defence of the faith present to 
 the rich and comfortable an example as touching as it is edifying; for it is to be borne in 
 mind that we have but one Gospel for the rich and the poor, and that this Gospel impera- 
 tively demands of both the sacrifice not onlv of the goods of this world, but even of life 
 itself, rather than to infringe its laws. When a sjiirit of proselytism, more blind ami fanatical 
 tlian that denounced by our Lord in the (iospel, outraging not only the laws of humanity, 
 but all the decencies of ])ublic oiiinion — which, more destructive than the fimine in whose 
 footsteps it followed, endeavoured to smite with the second and everlasting death those who 
 escajjcd the first — which visited the widow and the orphan in their desolation, not to miti- 
 gate their sufferings, but to rob them of that immortal hope that redeems all the miseries of 
 this life, and brightens the jtrospect of the future — which aggravated with the horrors of 
 rcligiovis ])ersecution the darkest calamity that ever crushed a ju'0])le, and scattered on 
 every side the seeds of infidelity, hypociMsy, ami fraud ; — when this malignant s]>irit of 
 seduction stood against them to tem])t and to destroy, how often has the heroic ])ar('nt, like 
 the mother of Macchabees, encouraged her ofts))ring to des])ise the breath and life of this 
 world for the sake of that Creator who would certainly restore them on a future day? And 
 liow often has that ofIsj)ring suffered, not tlie torments of the executioner, but the more 
 severe and lingering death iidlicted by starvation, rather than " transgress the laws of (Jod
 
 DOCUMENTS. 
 
 385 
 
 received from our fatliors?" To tlio iToilit of tlie respectiilde uiiil ejilightened portion oi' our 
 Protestant brethren he it siiid, th;it none li;ive Ijoen more loud and inilii^nant in reproljatin;^ 
 a system so seandidoits and dcn-r.nlinu; to any form of relin-ioii, a system tliat does not even 
 pretenil to conceal tlie corruption and proHigacy whicli !t em])h)ys as tlie instruments of 
 perversion, hut vvlncli (h-ives its sacrilegiinis traffic in tlie noon-chiy and hetore the puhlic 
 gaze, offering its raess of pottage for the glorious iidieritaiice it seeks to purchase. Yet we 
 deeply lament to state, that up to the present hour its frenzy continues unabated; from the 
 crowded city to the most secluded hamlet, its unscrujjulous agents are to be seen offering the 
 rewards of a|)osta,cy to the destitute or the venal, whilst it lias sjircad its |)rosel vfizing schools 
 like a net-n-ork over the length and breadth of the land; childhood — weak defenceless child- 
 hood — is the great object of its unhallowed s|)eculatioiis and insidious efforts ; and it does not 
 hesitate to avow, that it is satisfied with making an uuprincijiled lijpocrite of the parent, 
 provided it succeeded in perverting the soul of the child. It seeks, above all things, to 
 stamp upon the mind those first im])rossions, which are always so durable, and so hard to 
 be elfiiccd, and has recourse to every expedient which ingenuity can suggest, and to every 
 resource which wealth can jjurehase, for the purpose of preserving and perpetuating the 
 fruits of its unholy exertions. 
 
 To you, the pastors of the people, our venerable brethren in .Jesus Christ, who throuoh evil 
 report and good I'cport have been so vigilant and indefatigable in the defence of your flocks, 
 who have maintained with such unshrinking courage and fidelity one of the most severe and 
 
 unequal contests that ever exercised the patience or tested the devotedness of our ministry 
 
 there is no language we can emjdoy adenuate to express the high sense we entertain of your 
 services, labours, and sufferings in the cause ; and it onlj' remains for us to exhort you not 
 to relax for a moment the fervour of your zeal, or the energy of your exertions, but trustiii"- 
 in the mercy and omnipotence of Him whose hand is with you, rather to redouble those 
 efforts, to increase as much as possible the number of schools for the young, to be assiduous in 
 visiting and inspecting the schools already erected, to organize and direct those pious 
 associations for the diffusion of catechetical knowledge, and for visiting, consoling, and 
 instructing the poor and the abandone:l, such as the lay society of Saint Vincent of Paul, 
 associations that have been always found so efficient in pi'omoting the interests of religion. 
 We exhort you to be indefatigable in preaching the word, in season and out of season, 
 sustaining the faint-hearted, consoling the atflicted, rebuking the imquiet, always remember- 
 ing the high price at which the souls entrusted to you have been bought, and shrinking from 
 no laboiu", danger, or sacrifice, for their preservation. 
 
 But it is not only the spiritual affiictions of the poor that call for oursj-mpathy and relief; 
 their corporal wants and sulferings a])peal to our most tender commiseration and prompt 
 assistance. The inestimable favour conferred upon us by Almighty God, in the gift of the 
 true faith will only serve as the subject of our greater condemnation if not illustrated 
 by works of charity ; " for what shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith 
 but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? And if a brother or sister be naked, 
 and want daily food, and one of you say to them: go in peace: be ye warmed and filled; 
 yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body: what shall it profit? So 
 faith also if it have not works is dead in itself" — (St. James, Ep. c. ii., v. 14, 1.5, 16, 17). 
 " We charge the rich of this world," therefore, with St. Paul, " not to be high-minded, nor 
 to trust in the uncertainty of riches, Init in the living God (who giveth to us abundantly all 
 things to enjoy) ; to do good, to be rich in good works, to give easily, to communicate to 
 others, to lay up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that 
 they may lay hold on the true life" — (1 Tim., c. vi., v. 17, l8, 19). And to all we say 
 "According to thy ability be merciful: if thou have much, give abundantly; if thou have 
 little, take care to bestow willingly a little; for thou storest up for thyself a good reward 
 for the day of necessity. For alms delivereth from sin and from death, and will not suffer 
 the soul to go into darkness. Alms shall be a great confidence before the Host High, to all 
 them that give it" — (Tobias, c. iv., v. 8, 12). Now if such be the spirit and the law of 
 charity for all times an<l places, for every age, and for every nation, what shall we say of the 
 force and stringency with which they apply to a country whose ordinary and characteristic 
 sufferings have been so intensely aggravated by the awful visitations of the last A'ears. 
 Surely if ever there was a people whose manifold miseries and privations could pierce the 
 heart of charity to its core, and call for her most devotcfl exertions and sacrifices, our suffering 
 countrymen at the present hour are pre-eminently entitled to that afflicting distinction. 
 
 Let your contributions and exertions, then, dearly beloved, be proportionate to the wants and 
 calamities you have to succour or alleviate. Enlarge your hearts with the greatness of the 
 occasion which })resents itself to you. " Give and it shall be given unto you ; good measure, 
 and ])ressed down, and shaken together, and rumiing over, shall thev give into your bosom. 
 For with the same measure you shall mete withal it shall be meted unto you" — (St. Luke, 
 chap, vi., v. ?)8). For "he who soweth sparingly shall also reaj) sjiaringly; and he who 
 soweth in blessings shall also reap in blessings. Every one as he hath detenr.ined in his heart, 
 not with sadness, or of necessity, for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make 
 all grace abound in you ; that ye always having all-sufficiency in all things may abound to 
 every good work. As it is written, he bath dispersed abroad, he hath given to the poor. 
 His justice remaiiieth for ever. And he that ministereth seed to the sower, will lioth give 
 you bread to eat and will multiply vour seed, and increase the growth of the fruits of vour 
 justice"— (2 Cor., chap, ix., v. 6, 7, 8 9, 10). 
 
 For our parts^ did we omit, on this important occasion, admonishing and cxhortino- you, by 
 
 Vol. H. ^oD 
 
 M'u-ed Eilucation, 
 
 The Synodicul Ad- 
 dross of tlie Council 
 of Tliurlcs.
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Tlie Synodical Ad- 
 dress of the Council 
 of Thurles. 
 
 Mixed Education, all the motives whicli religion can supply, to succour your afflicted brethren, and to treat them 
 Avith all possible kindness and compassion, we should not only fail in one of the most obvious and 
 essential duties of the episcopal charge, but prss over, in criminal silence, one of the subjects 
 with which prelates, when assembled in synod, are obliged to occu])y themselves. On the 
 day on which the Church jilaced the pastoral staff' in our hands, she made mercy to the poor 
 one of the subjects of that solemn examination to which she subjected us ; hence the constiint 
 remembrance and concern for the poor expressed in her canons; and hence those decrees 
 and regulations of such frequent recurrence in her councils, from Chalcedon to Trent, 
 whereby the various charitable establishments for their relief are placed under the authority 
 and control of the episcopacy. The Council of Toledo (Ann. 033, c. 22), amongst others, 
 admonishes bishops of the charge placed on them by God to protect and defend the people ; 
 and accuses them of criminal neglect if they suffer the poor to be oppressed without 
 raising their voice in their defence and vindication. Whilst, then, the miseries of our 
 destitute brethren appeal to the charity and compassion of all at the present time, they press 
 with peculiar force an4 weight upon our hearts. 
 
 We behold oiu' poor not only crushed and overwhelmed by the awful visitations of heaven, 
 but frequently the victims of the most ruthless oppression that ever disgraced the annaJs of 
 humanity. Though they have been made to the image of the livhig God, and are purchased 
 by the blood of Calvary — though the special favourites and representatives of Jesus Christ — 
 •we see them treated with cruelty, which would cause the heart to ache if inflicted on the 
 beasts of the field, and for which it would be difficult to find a parallel save in the atrocities 
 of savage life. The desolating track of the exterminator is to be traced in too many parts 
 of the country — in those levelled cottages and roofless abodes, whence so many virtuous and 
 industrious families have been torn by brute force, without distinction of age or sex, sickness 
 or health, and flung upon the highway to perish in the extremity of want. But let not the 
 oppressor and the wrong-doer imagine that the arm of the Lord is shortened in Israel. 
 For, " He will not accept any person against a poor man, and He will hear the prayer of 
 him that is wronged. He will not despise the prayers of the fatherless, nor the widow when 
 she poureth foi'th her complaint. Do not the widow's tears run down her cheeks, and her 
 cry against him that causeth them to fall ? For from the cheek they go up even to heaven, 
 and the Lord that heareth will not bo delighted with them" — (Eccles., chap, xxxv., v. 16, 
 17, 18, 19). And again, " Do no violence to the poor man, because he is poor, and do not 
 oppress the needy in the gate. Because the Lord will judge his cause, and will afflict tliem 
 that have afflicted his soul" — (Frov., chap, xxii., v. 22, 23). Hence, the woes pronounced by 
 St. James against the perpetrators of such cruelties, " Go now, ye rich men, weep and howl 
 in your miseries, which shall come upon you, your riches are corrupted, and your garments 
 are moth-eaten, your gohl and silver is cankered, and the rust of them shall be for a testi- 
 mony against you, and shall eat your flesh like fire. You have stored up for yourselves wrath 
 against the last days. Behold the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, 
 which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth, and the cry of them hath entered into 
 the ears of the Lord of Sabbaoth. You have feasted upon earth ; and in riotousness yon have 
 nourished your heart'; in the days of slaughter" — (St. James, chap, v., v. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). 
 
 But whilst defending the rights of tlie poor and announcing the woes with which the 
 Gospel threatens their oppressors, it becomes our duty also, to admonish the former, that the 
 merits, privileges, and rewards, which God has annexed to their state, can only be secured 
 by the exercise of patience and resignation. The moment they become their own avengers, 
 enter into secret and illegal combinations, condemned so severely by the Church, and liave 
 recourse to deeds of blood and violence, they lose all resemblance to that Divine model, 
 who in suffering for them, left them an example that they should tread in his footsteps, as 
 ■well as all right to that future joy in which none can participate save those who have shared 
 in His afflictions hero below. Instead, then, of being impelled by the ])ro)nptings of that 
 sanguinary resentment which, far from alleviating their sufferings, never fiiils to aggravate 
 them with tenfold bitterness and intensity, let them treasure deep in their hearts, and 
 constantly recall to their remembrance those consoling promises of Jesus Christ, " Blessed are 
 ye poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye that weeji now, for ye shall laugh. 
 Blessed shall j^ou be when men shall hate you, and when they shall reproach you, and cast 
 out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake" — (Matt., c. v). One of the worst fruits of 
 the false teaching of the age, has been to generate a s))irit of contempt, hard-heartedness, 
 and hostility to the poor. The mammon of iniquity, not tlie si)irit of Christianity, and the 
 avarice which the Apostle denounces as the root of all evil, not the charity of Jesus Christ, 
 have furnished the principles and the maxims by which they have been estimated and ranked 
 m the social scale. Whilst the Gospel everywhere breathes respect, love, and comnn'seration 
 for the destitute, ])ouring its heaveidy consolation into their desponding hearts, and shedding 
 its undying halo over their darkest sufferings, continually dissipating the clouds which the 
 arrogance and ten-or of this world liave cast aroinid them, nud revealing the dignity and 
 privileges with which their Divnie Master has invested them; the spirit of error, on the 
 contrary, either denounces them as the grwit nuisance of the moral world, for whose remo- 
 val or abatement the laws of nature and religion are to be outraged, or by endeavouring to 
 give them an unrUie and extravagant exalt;ition in the social scale, seeks to counteract the 
 order of Providence, and thereby, considt'rably augment.-i the ])r('ju(licc and aversion with 
 which they are regarded. IIow admirable is the teaching of the Catholic Chiu'cli upon 
 this imjioi-t.mt matter. Guided by Divine chai'ity she exhorts the rich to i)Ut on bowels of 
 compassion for the poor, to consic(er them as brethren, to respect them as unsmbers of Jesus
 
 DOCUMENTS. 387 
 
 Olirist ; and at the same time she teaches tlie poor to respect the rights of property, to honour Mixed Education. 
 tlie rank and station of tiic f^reat and powerful, to be obedient to tliose in authority, to be — r 
 
 grateful for favours received, and to pour f(jrth fervent jirayers for their beiiefiictors."^ dr^t8^^tl?e"'coififcll 
 
 Instructed, dearly beloved, in the true nature of the relation in wliich you stand towards of Thurles. 
 the poor, as well as in the duties wliicli 3'ou owe thoni, it should be the object of all to 
 mitigat';, as niueii as jiossible, the severities of their lot. Those amongst you who fill the 
 responsible oflii'e of Guardians of the Poor, should weigh all the sacred oblifations of 
 your stewardship, and the rigorous account you must render of it on a future day; whilst 
 those who are cliargi'd with the office of supervising and ministering to their wants in the 
 asylums and workhouses where they are ])laeeil, should be careful to treat them with the 
 consideration, mildness, and humanity, that are due to the suffering members of Jesus 
 Christ. 
 
 But, as it is impossible to discharge our duties to the jioor, or to fulfil the other engage- 
 ments of our Christian \-ocation, without the assistance of divine grace; and as prayer and 
 the sacraments are the mediums instituted by Almiglity God for conveying that grace to 
 the soul, all should be fervent and persevering in employing these inestimable and consoling 
 moans of mercy and salvation. One of the principal objects of the present assembly has been 
 to render these resources more abundant and accessible to all; to stimulate the zeal and 
 piety both of pastors and people for the accomplishment of so desirable a purpose; to diffuse 
 as widely as possible the knowledge necessary for a due preparation for the Sacraments, in 
 order to remove evx-ry obstacle to their elKcac}-; and, above all, to animate the faithful to a 
 worthy and frequent jiarticiinition of tlie bread of life, humbled by the recollection of the 
 manner in whicli we have hitherto abused tliose precious graces, of the base ingratitude 
 with which we ha\e ivpaid the favours of the best of benefactors, and of the scandals which 
 have di-awn from his paternal hand those lieavy chastisements by which he seeks our cor- 
 rection and reformation. Let us pour out our hearts Ijefore Him in penitential sorrow ; 
 recall, in bitterness of soul, the sins by which we have outraged his Divine Majestj-, fer- 
 vently resolved on a ])erfeet cliange and amendment of life ; and approach, with the requisite 
 dispositions, to that Fountain of Mercy, in the sacrament of Penance, where the guilty 
 and perishing soul is cleansed, purified, revived, and strengthened by the blood of the 
 Lamb. 
 
 An opportunity most favourable for the accomplishment of all these objects will soon be 
 offered to you. His Holiness has been pleased to grant to us the indulgences of a General 
 Jubilee, which will commence on St. Michael's Day next, and will continue for three months. 
 We exhort you to avail yourselves of the treasures which are thus opened to you by the 
 Churclijin a spirit of true penance and compunction, that God, appeased by our repentance, 
 may look upon us with compassion, and deliver us fi'om the evils that overwhelm us. 
 
 That our prayers may be more efficacious, let the ever Blessed and Immaculate Virgin, 
 so faithful to all her disciples — so compassionate to the afflicted and the erring — so merciful 
 to all ; wliose name is enshrined in the hearts of our people — the never-fliiling Star of Hope 
 that has cheered the sorrow-ful vigil and dissijiated the darkest storm that ever threatened 
 the destinies of our Church — she voider whose gracious auspices this Synod was ojiened, 
 and under whose maternal protection it now closes its labours — let this Help of Christians 
 be fervently and constantly invoked by you in all your devotions. This most holy Mother 
 has been long recognized and venerated by our predecessors as the general Pati'oness of all 
 Ireland ; and it is our wish that she sliall be, for the future, invoked as such, under tlie title 
 of the htimtiriilati' Coiiccpiiiii). To obtain more effectually the assistance of this our 
 powerful advocate in the present wants and calamities that overwhelm ns, we have deter- 
 mined that her litany sliall be recited, before the ])arochial Mass, on every Sunday and 
 holiday of obligation, in the churches and chapels throughout the kingdom, for the next 
 twelve months, together with the collect y^n; qiiacunque trihiilutiuin; which collect is also to 
 be inserted in the Masses of each day during the same period. 
 
 Let that glorious Apostle, to whose charity, labours, and sufferings, you are indebted, 
 inider God, not only for the blessings of the faith, but, in no small measure, for the pi-eser- 
 vation of this Divine gift, be also earnestly supplicated by you when appealing to the 
 Throne of Grace ; nor forget those other holy advocates to whose efficacious intercession 
 the voice of the Church and your own experience bear testimony. 
 
 Receive once more, dearly beloved, the assurances of our devoted charity, and heartfelt 
 interest in all that concerns your welfare ; and in bidding you farewell, and imploring the 
 benediction of Heaven on yourselves and on all who are dear to you, as well as upon all 
 youi- labours and concems, suffer us to exhort you, in the words of the Apostle, " to walk 
 worthy of the vocation in which you are called — careful to keep the unity of the Spirit, in 
 the bond of peace. One body and one spirit, as you arc called in one hope of your calling. 
 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and througli 
 all, and in us all" — (Ephes., c. iv., y. 1-6). " Loving one another with the charity of brother- 
 hood, with honour preventing one another. To no man rendering evil for evil. Providing 
 good things, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight of men. If possible as much 
 as is in you, having peace with all men" — (Rom., c. xii., y. 10, 17, 18). " Let every soul be 
 subject to higher powers, for there is no jjower but fi-om God, and those that are 
 ordained of God. Render, therefore, to all men their dues — tribute to whom tribute is due; 
 custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any 
 thing, but to love one another. For he that loveth his neighbour hath fidfilled the law" — 
 (liuom., c. xiii., y. 1, 7, S). " May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, 
 and the coinmuiucation of the Holy Gliost, be with, you all. Amen" — (2 Cor., c. xiii., v. 13). 
 Vol. IL "S D 2
 
 388 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Mixed Educiuion. Tliis Pastoral Address was read in full Synod, and unanimously adopted, and ortlered to 
 
 — — be published. 
 
 dress of tlie Council [Signed by the Most Rev. Archbishop Cullen, Primate, and Delegate of tlie Apostolic See, 
 
 ofTi.urles. President of the Synod; by the Right Rev. Bishop Derrv, Promoter of the Synod ; by 
 
 the VeryRev. D. O'Brien, Vicar-General, Waterford, the Rev. Peter Cooper, Canon of the 
 
 Chapter, Dublin, and by the Rev. Patrick Leahy, President of the College, Thurles, 
 
 Secretaries of the Synod.] 
 
 Thurles, jNIonday Avithin the Octave of the Feast of the 
 
 Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, 
 
 in the year of our Lord 1850. 
 
 Translation of TRANSLATION of the EiRST RESCRIPT Oil the Queen's COLLEGES, directed to each of the Four 
 
 First Rescript on the Roman Catholic Archbishops of Ireland [I'eferred to in preceding Synodical Address], 
 ^.ueens o ege>. jlogx ILLUSTRIOUS AND MosT Reverend Lord, — It will, perhaps, appear strange that 
 
 the reply of the Sacred Congregation on the subject of the Academical Colleges should 
 have been so long delayed ; but the deep im])ort;uicc of the question at issue, and the great 
 variety of matters to be considered, rendered it necessary that much time should be spent 
 in duly examining the documentary proofs and reasons on both sides, before judgment could 
 safely be delivered. First of all, we deem ii our duty to declare that the Sacred Congre- 
 gation never imagined that the prelates who appeared to be in fiivour of establishing the 
 Colleges proposed to do what they believed to be incori'ect, for long experience has proved 
 their probity; and the Congregation consider that they were only imjielled to take that view 
 through the hope of effecting a greater good, and promoting the prosperity of religion in 
 Ireland. However, the Sacred Congregation having considered the matter maturely and 
 in all its bearings, dares not presume to promise itself fruits of that kind from the erection of 
 such Colleges ; it even dreads that grievous peril to the Catholic faith would thence arise ; 
 in one woixl, it considers that institutions of the sort would be a detriment to religion. 
 
 Therefore it admonislies the archbishops and bishops of Ireland to have no jtart what- 
 ever ill carrying them out. But as it could have wished that some bishops, before treating 
 ' with the Government to obtain an amen(hnent of the law regarding the Colleges in question, 
 
 and other matters, in their fiivour, had first solicited the decision of the Holy See ; so, also, 
 it does not doulit, so great has been the obedience which the Prelates of Ireland have ever 
 professed to the Head of the Church, but that those same bishops will retract what they 
 may have done to the contrary. But all this notwithstanding, any of your body who may 
 have aught of greater moment, and I'oquiring further notice to communicate, will be at 
 liberty to disclose it to the Sacred Congregation, that in all things a right judgment may be 
 given. 
 
 The Sacred Congregation is well aware how important it is that provision should be 
 made for the instruction of the young, especially of the higher classes, in science ; it there- 
 fore exhorts your grace, together with your suffragan bishops, to use evei'y legitimate 
 means within your power to promote that object. It will be yours to take care that the 
 Catholic Colleges whicli are already in existence may flourish more and more, by adding 
 those more useful chairs, jiarticularly in the philosophical department, which may, possibly, 
 be yet wanting, and by enlarging the accommodation, so that a greater number may enter 
 according to the wants of the surrounding districts. Of all things, the Sacred Congregation 
 would deem it most advantageous that the liishops, uniting their exertions, should erect in 
 Ireland a Catholic academy on the model of that which the prelates of Belgium founded in 
 tiie city of Louvain. 
 
 An(i tliat these things may be successfully carried out, the Saci'ed Congregation exhorts 
 the bishops to cultivate, as far as possible, mutual union, and the greatest concord ; not to 
 permit themselves to be carried away by partisan zeal on matters which have notJiiiig to do 
 with the sacred ministry intrusted to them, and to let all see that they have nothing in 
 view Init the worship of God, the good of religion, and the salvation of souls. 
 
 This we believe j-ou will do with the greater earnestness, because the same are in every 
 respect the views of our most Holy Lord Pius IX. When he had accurately informed 
 himself respecting the whole circumstances of the case, he ratified llic Council of the Sacred 
 Congregation, and adiled to it the supreme weight of his own authority. 
 
 Jn the meantime we jumv God that he may grant your Grace a long and liapjiy litb. 
 
 Your Grace's most obedient servant, 
 .„• is^ J. PniL. Cardinal Fransoni, p.d.p.f. 
 
 ^ " ''' Alexander Barnabo, Pro Secretary. 
 
 College of the Sacred Coiigrogation for the 
 
 Pro]>agation of the Faith, Rome, October 9, 1847. 
 
 Scrnnd Ticfcript on TRANSLATION of the SECOND RESCRIPT on the Queen's Coi.leges, directed to each of the 
 the Queen's Colleges. Four Roman Catholic Archbi.shops of Inland [referred to in preceding Synodical Address.] 
 Most Illustrious and Reverend J^ord, — Some extracts from the Statutes conqnied for 
 the iKjw colleges in Ireland, and the oj)inioiis given by the bislioj)s regarding them, have 
 aH()rde<l the Sacred (,'oiigregation an occasion of ngaiii treating of the aforesaid (Nijleges, 
 ciiictly under that as])ect, and of weighing diligeiitly and maturely what it should deem 
 its duty to answer regarding the spiritual interests of the Catholic jieojile of Ireland. For 
 though the aforesaid Statutes arc in such form that it is dillicult to ascertiiin their authority, 
 considering the constitution of the English realm, still, all things maturely weighed, the
 
 DOCUMENTS. 389 
 
 Sacred Congre<;ixtion could not be induced on account of tlie grievous and intrinsic, dangers Mixed Ednmiion. 
 of tlu! same colleges to mitigate the decision passed on them, and, with the sanction of the — ;- 
 
 most Holy Lord, conimunioated to tlio four meti*o])olitans in the month of October, last year, dro^s'tiniie'coundl 
 
 But since it is manifest with what zeal the clergy and the entire j/eople labour for those of Tliurlus. 
 things which have for their ol)ject to ])romote the good of the Church, their Eminences SfuiKl Uopcript on 
 Judged that the erection of a Catholic University should not bo despaired of! — nay, they "'- '■i"'-''^" = '-'""'•■S'-'s- 
 have again and again reconunended a project of this sort, in order that all may loud their 
 best endeavours towards its execution, and that thus sufficient provision be made for giving 
 the Catholics more amjjle instruction without their religion suffering danger from tliat source. 
 
 This decision of the Sacred Congregation, with all maturity and prudence weighed, our 
 Most Holy l>ord has resolwd to sancti(m and confirm with the weight of his own authority, 
 and Ikis willed that it sliould be sent to the four archbisiiops, to bo by them couuiiunicatod 
 to their respeclive suffragans. 
 
 But whilst I perform this duty I ought also to signify that it is the peculiar desire of the 
 Sacred Congregation — nay, also of our INIost Holy Lord, that sacerdotal concord be 
 preserved and that you have at heart to cultivate the unity of spirit which the Sacred 
 Gospels attest to have been exceedingly commended by Christ our Lord t<j his apostles. 
 And since I am addressing prelates who are well versed in the History of the Church and 
 the excellent admoniti(nis of the Holv Fathers, I deem it sujjerHuous to (luote them, or to 
 mention what Ijonefits the union of bishops conferred on the Church, and what evils, on the 
 other iiand, flowed from their dissensions. And whereas, you are all unanimously wishing 
 for this union, it will not be amiss to remind you to choose, and cheerfully to apply, the most 
 seasonable means towards securing it. These are pi'ominent in the sacred canons, and in 
 the otlier rules of ecclesiastical discipline which, if you will faithfully follow in your ministry, 
 and if, in your doubts, you will a])pl\' to the Holy See, in order that tlu'ough it you may 
 know what is to bo done, the aforesaid luiion will become more and more firm and lasting. 
 Amongst other things, the Sacred Congregation lias deemed it right to remind you, witli 
 the sanction of our Most Holy Lord, that sacerdot^il meetings should henceforward be held 
 in due order, and according to the path mai'ked out by the canons and liturgical books; 
 otherwise difference of opinion will daily increase; and from meetings of this kind, which 
 may rather wear a secular than a religious ajtpearance, no good will result towards duly 
 regulating ecclesiastical discipline, to which alone tlio}^ should be subservient ; and, therefore, 
 it will be most advantageous to transmit the acts of the Synods to the Ajiostolic See, as also 
 to write at certain times concerning the state of your churches, as has been ordained, in 
 order that you may receive from hence seasonable answers. 
 
 But those things are signified to you, not that any doubt arises regarding your submission 
 to the Apostolic See, since it has been proved to the world how fervent and constant it is, 
 and a fresh testimony has been borne to it by all the letters written on the aforesaid subject 
 of the colleges, but that by those manifestations it may again be actually proved ; and when 
 reference on the more weighty concerns is accurately made to that Church from w hence 
 sacerdotal union is derived, the same unity will, by this means, the more easily abide 
 among yourselves. In the meantime, I pray God long to preserve j-our Grace in health. 
 
 Your Grace's most obedient servant. 
 
 Given at Propaganda Fide, ,^-^ •,. J. Ph. Fransoni, Prefect. 
 
 Rome, 11th October, 1848. (.Mgneaj, Alexander Barnabo, Secrebiry. 
 
 Translation of Rescript on the Queen's Colleges, addressed to each of the Four Rescript on 
 Roman Catholic Archbishops of Ireland [referred to in preceding Synodical Address]. Queen s Colleges. 
 
 Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord, — Though the bishops of Ireland appear to 
 be about to hold a National Council, with a view principally to determine, after deliberating 
 in conimon upon a uniform discipline to be observed throughout Ireland in reference to the 
 colleges, the Sacred Congregation has yet wished that this should be especially commended 
 to them bv vour Grace ; and it is also necessary that you should signify to them that the 
 exhortations contained in the apostolic letters are particularly directed to that object. But 
 I am confident that they will happily effect this by not departing in the least from the 
 obedience which they owe to the Apostolic See and its Rescinpts, and by keeping it mainly in 
 view how thev may most effectually consult for the good of religion and the salvation of souls. 
 Meanwhile, I have thought it should be signified, through your Grace, to the bishops, that 
 it ajipears astonishing after the answers already given on the colleges that some sliould not 
 have hesitated to assert that it is b.iwful for priests to undertake certain offices in the said 
 colleges; for if it has been declared that the aforesaid colleges will prove detrimental to 
 religion, by reason of their grave and intrinsic dangers, if the bishops have been warned to 
 have no share in carrying out their establishment, it is certainly evident that neither is it 
 lawful for other ecclesiastical persons to discharge any function having reference to the said 
 colleges. 
 
 As to other controversies raised on the subject of the said colleges, it will be the business 
 of the bishojjs, after having diligently weighed the before-mentioned rescripts, to frame such 
 rules to be evervwliere observed for withholding the faithful from frequenting those colleges, 
 as will correspond with the said rescripts, and be conformable to the etjuity and benignity 
 which the Apostolic See itself ever enforces bj' its example. 
 
 Given at Rome, from the College of the Sacred Conrrregatii^n de Propaganda Fide, the 
 18th day of April, 1850. 
 
 CS'o- d^ ^' ^"' Cardinal Fransoni, Prefect. 
 
 ^ S -'' Alexander Barnabo, Secretary-
 
 390 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Erasmut Smith's 
 Schools. 
 
 Lawes of Erasmus 
 Smith, Esq. 
 
 No. XXI. — Schools Founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq. 
 
 1. La'vtbs and Dirkctioxs given by Erasmus Smith, Esquire, under his Hand and Seale, 
 for the better Goverument and Ordering the PubHc Schools hitely founded and erected 
 by him. 
 
 For the Schools. 
 
 The schooles are founded as free grammar schooles, in behalf and for the benefitt of the 
 children of the tennants to the said Erasmus Smith, as also for the children of the tennants 
 of this corporation, together with the childi-en of the inhabitants residing in and about the 
 townes and places where those schooles are erected, that is to say :— > 
 
 1. The child or children of any tennants of the said Erasmus Smith, or to the said 
 corporation, as also the children of any sub-tennant that is the present occupier of any of the 
 said lands or possessions. These all, and each of them, if sent by their parents or fi-iends, 
 are to be taught free, and exempted from all salaries and payments, in respect of their edu- 
 cation, wliile they remain in any of those schooles. 
 
 2. That twenty poore children of the inhabitants of each of these townes, or within two 
 miles distant where these schooles are or shall be erected, and to enjoy the same privileges 
 of their edujation, in all respects, as the tenants' children. 
 
 3. Upon dcAth or removal of any of those twentic before mentioned, three or four of the 
 Aldermen of the townes of Drogheda and Gahvay, respectively ; and in Tipperary, the 
 schoolmaster and two or three of the oldest inhabitants upon my lands there, may please to 
 signifie the names of such children to the Governors of the schooles as ai'e fitted, in their 
 judgments, for this charity, that the number from time to time may be made up. 
 
 4. Those children are to be instructed and taught in the Latine, Greek, and Hebrew, 
 according to their respective cajiacities, and fitted for their LTniver^ity, if their parents or 
 friends desire it ; others of them to write and cypher, that they may be fitt for disposement 
 to trades or other employments. 
 
 5. There are further encouragements in relation to the poore children — as cloathmg 
 while they remain in the schoole, pentions for those that goe to the University, and provi- 
 sion also for those that are bound apprentices, some whereof are expressed in the charter — 
 all which will be declared by the founder's appointment, when the revenue comes to be 
 more fully stated. 
 
 G. Libertie is also given to the schoolemaster to receive the children of others as have a 
 mind to send them for like education into any of those schooles, paying to the head master 
 two shillings for entrance, and for their schooling such reasonable rates as shall be agreed 
 of between them. 
 
 F.OB THE Schoolmasters and Ushers. 
 
 1. None are to be admitted schoolmasters of the said schooles but such as are of the 
 Protestant religion, and well known for their abilitie, Industrie, and good conversation. 
 
 2. The schoolmaster, and in his absence, the usher, shall publickly, every morning, read 
 a chapter out of the canonical Scrijiture, and then pray, concluding at night also with 
 prayer. This to be done in the English tongue, that all may be edifyed; they are to urge 
 the children frequently to read the Scriptures, and att convenient times to require some 
 account of what they read, according to their capacitie, and that the meanest of them be 
 able readily to give an account how many bookes, and the order in which they stand, as 
 also the number of the chapters in each booke l)oth of the Old and New Testaments. 
 
 3. The weakness of children is such that many times varietie of Chatechisms confounds 
 their understandings, and the Lord Primate Usher's Chatechisme being s})ecially commended 
 to those schools in the Charter, the masters are diligently and constantly to catechise them 
 in that forme. And on the Lord's Day, before or after publicke worshij), to expound the 
 same, or part tho'cof, unto them, as also att other convenient times. 
 
 4. The children are to come to schoole before or att seavon of tlie clock in the morning 
 and one in the afternoon, and the times of their departing from the schoole to be at eleaven 
 and five or foure according to the season of the yeare, tlie children may have their libertie 
 on Saturdaj-s, the whole afternoon, and on Thursdays after three of tlie clock. 
 
 5. The schoole also is to break up seaven days before each of the festivalls — Christmasse, 
 Easter, and Whitsuntirle, every yeare; at which times, before their de])arting from the 
 sclioole, the master is to appoint some exercise to be done, and accounted for at their return, 
 and then to make a serious speach to the scholars, exhorting them, as at all other times, so 
 at this time also, they would demean and behave themselves with so much humilitie, 
 sobrietie, respect, and submission, that thereby they may credit their education and breeding, 
 and then with prayer dismiss them without any of those rude cnstomes in schooles as are 
 usuall at such tunes. 
 
 6. Noe child is to be admitted to the grammar schoole, or to be under the head master, 
 but such as have learned or arc fitt to be entered into the accidence or some introdnctione 
 booke to the grammar; the usher may, nevertheless, teach the children of the s;ud tenants 
 to read, write, and cast accounts, so many of them as the master shall jndge will not preju- 
 dice his further attendance on the granunar schoole. 
 
 7. That the children of the grammar schooles, such as the masters judge (itt, or in any 
 nieixsure able, doe exercise themselves in a constant sj^eaking of Latine with the master as 
 there is occasion, and one to another.
 
 DOCUMENTS. 391 
 
 8. The uslier is to observe tlie directions of tlic cliief master in the course and method of A>as»i«s SmuU't 
 his teaeliintr and instructing. Schools. 
 
 9. Tiic schoolmasters and ushers arc constantly to reside upon the place, and .arc not to Lawes of Erasmua 
 be absent from their charge unlesse in the times of their sicicnoss, or the times of l)reak up Smith, Esq. 
 
 or in a matter of special necessity, in which they haye leave from three or more of the 
 Governors, \vhcreof the treasurer to be one ; and if tliero be any such sj)ecial occation that 
 they a|i])nynt a sufficient ])erson to officiate in their room, who shall receive such a propor- 
 tionable part of the salary for his labour herein, as would have been due either to the school- 
 master or usher, whose place he hath supplyed. 
 
 10. That the schooles may be attended with greater diligence both by the masters and 
 ushers, neither of tiiom is permitted to be of use or exercise any other calling or employment 
 
 11. That the S(;hoolmasters take care the schoolerooms be kept clcane and hdlsome and 
 that the children doe not })reak the windows, or be suffered by cuttin<'-, scrihblinf or any 
 other way, to blemish or deface the walls, scats, doores, or gates. 
 
 For the Scholars, 
 
 1. That they strictly observe the lawes appointed for their coming to schoole, and not goe 
 forth upon any occasion without the leave of the master or usher first asked and obtained 
 and while in the school to kec]) their seats and not to go up and downe from place to place 
 to the disturbance of others moi'e studious. 
 
 2. Every scholar to be carefull, wheresoever he come, to give due respect by uncoverino- 
 his head, and otherwise, to all persons, and specially to the (iovernors of the schooles, to the 
 magistrates and ministers of the place, aiid to the masters and ushers of the schooles. 
 
 3. That none of them by any means are to listen or to entertaine any sucli inveagling 
 discourses or stories from their fellowes or othei's that tend to begett or nourish unworthy 
 thoughts, or a low opinion of their masters, but rather it is their duty to make a discovery 
 thereof. 
 
 4. Lett not cui'sing, reviling, obsenitie in words or lookes, no quarrelling or firrhtino-, or 
 unlawful games, be found with any of you, untler j)enalty of the severest correction ; but, on 
 the other hand, whatsoever is pious and injurious, and whatsoever is comlie and decent in 
 cloathes or otherwise, and may render you lovely in the eyes of others, lett such things be 
 constantly and carefully endeavoured by every child of you in the feare of the Lord. 
 
 , 5. When correction is to be given for these or any the like crimes, or idleness and negli- 
 gence in their studies and endeavours to improve themselves in their education, if any of 
 you shall be stubborne, resist, and become incorrigible, giving bad example to others, sucli 
 so continuing after admonition, shall be expelled and dismist from the schooles. 
 
 6. To the end that industrie and ingenuitie may as well receive incouragemcnt, as idleness 
 and neglect of dutie discountenance and punishment, once every j^ear, in the month of 
 May, foiu'e scholars out of the first classes, three out of the secontl, and two out of the third, 
 shall be made choice of by the master to present and pronounce some solemne exercise to 
 the Governours, or to any other person of qualitie that shall be then present ; and in case 
 none of the Governors shall be present, then the schoolmasters are to take care to transmit 
 y' several exercises fairly written to the Governors, to the end they may judge of those 
 amongst them most deserving, and encourage such by the gift of some Latine or Greek 
 booke fairly bound and guilded. 
 
 7. Care is to be taken by y"^ sevcrall schoohnasters that the rules above mentioned being 
 fairly written in a table, be hung up in each schoole, and be also audiblie read by the 
 monitor for the time being, the first schoole-day in every month, immediatelie after prayer, 
 during y' reading whereof there shall be silence and due attention. 
 
 Erasmus Smith. 
 
 2. — Order of the Governors of the Schools Founded by Erasmus Smith, Esq., Order of Govemois, 
 
 12th July, 1712. 12th July, 1-12. 
 
 Ordered — That the following Rules, to jirevent youths educated in the Free Schools 
 founded by Erasmus Smith fi-om turning Pajiists, be duly observed in each of the said 
 schools : — 
 
 1st. That prayers be read morning and evening in each of the said schools, by the 
 master or usher, out of the liturgy by law established, at which every youth shall be obliged 
 duly to attend. 
 
 2nd. That eveiy youth educated in the said schools shall be instructed by the master or 
 usher in Doctor ]\l;inn's Cat/'c/ii-sm, and upon Sundays be publickly examined in the same in 
 the church. 
 
 3rd. That every person educated in the said schools shall duly attend the publick service 
 in the parish church where each school is situated, exevy Lord's Day, and such other time 
 as the master or usher shall appoint; and upon neglect thereof, after due admonishment, to 
 be expelled the said schools. 
 
 4th. That every person so educated, when he is sufficiently instructed in the aforesaid 
 catechism, shall be brought by the master or usher to the bishop to be conflrnied. 
 
 The said Rules to be sent to each of the masters, and to be affixed up in each of the 
 schools.
 
 FORMS. 
 
 393 
 
 FORMS. 
 
 Page 
 
 I. — Circular to Principal Masters, 395 
 
 11. — Return from Mastees of Schools, 395 
 
 III. — Circular "to Secretaries and Registrars of Boards having charge of Endowed Schools, 
 
 and to Tristees of Schools, 396 
 
 IV. — Circular to Masters, asking for Names of Trustees, 397 
 
 V. — Circular addressed to tlio Clergy of Ireland, inquiring as to Schools and Endowments, 397 
 
 VI. — Circular addressed to Secretaries of Societies having Schools in connexion with them, 397 
 
 VII. — Circular to Deans of United Church, inquiring respecting Schools in connexion with 
 
 Cathedrals, 397 
 
 VIII — Circular addressed to Masters, under Stat. IS & 19 Vic, c. 59, . . . .398 
 
 IX, — Circular addressed to Trustees, under Stat. 18 it 19 Vic, c. 59, . . . • 398 
 
 X. — Circular addressed to Managers of National Schools, having Subscriptions or 
 
 Endowments distinct from the Parliamentary Grant, ...... 398 
 
 XL — Notice of Public Court, . . . . • 399 
 
 XII. — Warrant appointing Distuict for Assistant-Commissioner, 399 
 
 XIII. — Form (A) of Assistant-Commissioner's Report, ....... 399 
 
 XIV. — Form (B) of Assistant-Commissioner's Report, 402 
 
 XV. — Heads of Instructions for Inspector of Estates, ....... 402 
 
 XVI Notice of iNSPEcnoN by Inspector of Estates, 402 
 
 Vol. II. 
 
 3E
 
 FORMS. 
 FORMS. 
 
 395 
 
 FoBMS. 
 
 I. — Form of Circular to Principal Masters. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 
 Dublin Castle, ,185 . 
 
 Sir, — I am directed bj' Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquirinir "into the endowments, 
 funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the purposes of education in Ireland " 
 
 to request that you will, before day of , forward to the Commissioners: — 
 
 (1.) Copies of all statutes, charters, royal letters, wills, deeds, orders of visitors, 
 bye-laws, rules and regulations, respecting the school of which you arc the principal 
 master. 
 Tlic Commissioners also desire to be informed : — 
 
 (2.) Whether the endowments of your school, or any portion thereof, are derived 
 from land; and, if so, the number of statute acres comprised therein, its locality, the 
 annual income actually received during the year 185 , with the outgoings and 
 deductions therefrom, the net annual income, and the annual value as estimated in 
 Gi'iffith's Valuation. 
 
 (3.) Whether the endowments of your school, or any portion thereof, are derived 
 from personal property; and, if so, the amount of the principal sum, the annual 
 proceeds therefrom, and the nature of the security. 
 The Commissioners are also desirous to ascertain : — 
 
 (4.) The annual amount of your salary and other emoluments as principal school- 
 master, and the annual amount of the salary and other emoluments of every assistant 
 master in yom* school ; also by whom the several masters are ajipointed and paid. 
 
 (5.) The number of pupils in yom- school dm'ing the years 1852, 1853, and 1854, 
 
 divided into the separate classes of boarders, day scholars, and free pupils ; and the 
 
 amount of the annual stipend payable to you by each boarder and day scholar. 
 
 I am also directed to inform you that the Commissioners have resolved to hold a public 
 
 court " to inquire into the endowments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed 
 
 for the purposes of education in Ireland, and the nature and extent of the instruction 
 
 given in such schools;" and that it is their intention to give public notice of the places 
 
 and times of holding such com-t, so as to enable all persons to furnish the Commissioners 
 
 with information on the subjects of the proposed inquiry. 
 
 I enclose you blank forms to enable you conveniently to make the requii'cd returns. 
 
 I. — Circular to 
 Principal Masters. 
 
 I have the honour to be, Sir, your very obedient servant. 
 
 To- 
 
 -, Secretary. 
 
 Principal Master of the School of- 
 
 A Return from 
 
 II. — Form of Return from a Principal Master. 
 
 [the Principal INIaster of the School] of 
 
 pursuant 
 
 II.— Return from a 
 Principal Master. 
 
 to a requisition from Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring " into the endowments, 
 funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the purposes of education in 
 Ireland." 
 
 No. 1. — List of Statutes, Charters, Royal Letters, Wills, Deeds, Ordei's of Visitors, Bye-Laws, Rules, 
 and Regulations, forwarded to tli-e Commissioners. 
 
 Statutes. 
 
 Charters. 
 
 Koyal 
 Letters. 
 
 ■SVlUs. 
 
 DeecLs. 
 
 Orders of 
 Visitors. 
 
 Bye-laws, 
 
 Eules, aud 
 Eegulations. 
 
 General 
 Observations. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 iVb. 9 
 
 — Bndoiiments from Land. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Number of 
 
 Aoi-es, statute 
 
 measure. 
 
 Locality. 
 
 .Vuuual Income 
 
 actually 
 
 received in the 
 
 yeai- 1853. 
 
 OuIpoirgB nnd i 
 Dcductiuna from tho Net Aimual 
 Anniuil Inconio y 
 artually rocoivod iUCOme. 
 ill Iho jiar 1833. I 
 
 Griffith's 
 Valuation. 
 
 General 
 
 Observations. 
 
 A. 
 
 K. 
 
 P. 
 
 
 1 ^■ 
 
 s. 
 
 (/. 
 
 M 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 i 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 i' 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 
 Vol. II. 
 
 3E2
 
 396 
 
 TOHMS. 
 
 IT. — Keturn from 
 Principal Master. 
 
 III. — Circular to 
 Secretaries and 
 Ee{;istrars of Boards 
 having Charge of 
 Endowed Scliools, 
 and to Trustees of 
 Schools. 
 
 I ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 A^o. 3. — Endowments from Personal Properly. 
 
 Principal Sum. 
 
 Annual Proceeds. 
 
 s. d. 
 
 d. 
 
 Nature of Security. 
 
 General Observations. 
 
 No. 4. — Salaries and Appointments of Masters. 
 
 
 Annual 
 
 Amount of 
 
 Salary. 
 
 Other 
 Emoluments. 
 
 By whom By whom 
 a^jpoiuted. jiaid. 
 
 General 
 Observations. 
 
 Principal Master, 
 Assistant Masters, viz. : 
 
 £ 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 £ 
 
 s. 
 
 d. 
 
 
 
 
 No. 5. — Ntmiber of Pupils. 
 
 Separate Classes of 
 
 Boarders, . 
 Day Scliolai's, 
 Free Pupils, 
 
 A.D. 1852. 
 
 A.D, 185-3. 
 
 A.D. I85i. 
 
 Annual Stipend 
 payable to School- 
 master by each 
 Boarder and Day 
 Scholar. 
 
 General Observations. 
 
 Master of - 
 
 Scliool. 
 
 Dated this ■ 
 
 (lav of 
 
 185 
 
 III. 
 
 -Form of Circulae to Secretaries and Registrars of Boards having Charge of 
 Endowed Schools, and to Trustees of Schools. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, ,185 . 
 
 I am directed by Her IMajesty's Commissioners for inquiring " into the endowments, funds, 
 and actual condition of all schools endowed for the purposes of education in Ireland," to 
 request that you will, at your earliest convenience, forward to the Commissioners: — 
 
 (1.) Copies of all statutes, charters, royal letters, wills, deeds, orders of visitors, 
 bve-law,;, rules, and regulations, respecting the [Sr//oo/ ofN, endowed by A. B.] 
 The' Commissioners also desire to be informed : — 
 
 (2.) Whether the cndo%yments of \j:vch schoof], or any portion thereof, are derived 
 from land; and, if so, the number of statute acres comprised therein, its locality, the 
 annual income actually received during the year 1853, with the outgoings and deduc- 
 tions therefrom, the net annual income, and the annual value as estimated in Griffith's 
 Valuation. 
 
 (3.) Whether the endowments of [such selioul'], or any portion thereof, are derived 
 from ])ersonal property, and, if so, the amoiint of the princi2)al sum, the annual 
 ])roceeds therefrom, and the nature of the security. 
 The Connnissioncrs arc also desirous to ascertain : — 
 
 (4.) The animal amount of the salary and other emolument of the jjrincipal school- 
 master [jjif sin-h seliiKil'], and the annual amount of the salary and other cmolumoiits of 
 every assistant master in [.s7/rA .sclwoll; also by whom the several masters are api>ointed 
 
 and paiil. 
 
 (5.) Tlio number of pupils in [stirli .se/ioo/] during the years 1852, 1853, and 1854, 
 
 divided into the separate classes of boarders, day scholars, and free pupils; and 
 
 the amount of the annual stijiend payable by each boarder and day scholar. 
 
 I am also directed to inform you that the Commissioners have resolved to holil a ))ublic 
 
 court " to ini(uire into the endowments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed 
 
 for the purposes of education in Ireland, and the nature and extent of the instruction 
 
 given in such schools;" and that it is their intention to give public notice <if the places 
 
 and times of holding such court, so as to enable all persons to furnish the Commissiciiiers 
 
 with information on" the subjects of the proposed in(|uiry. 
 
 I enclose you a copy of the Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, and blank forms* 
 to enable you conveniently to make the required returns. 
 
 I have the honour to be, ,}our very obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 To 
 
 • Tlic forms enclosed same as in case of principal master, with the words " principal master" omitted.
 
 FORMS. 
 
 397 
 
 IV. — FoiiM of CiiicuLAn to Masters, asking for Names of Trustees. 
 
 Eiiflowed Schools (Ireliiiul) ('.oininissioii, 
 Dublin Castle, , 1«5 , 
 
 Sir, — -I am directed iiy IIim' Majesty's Coniiiiissiouers for iiKiuiriug "into the endow- 
 ments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the purposes of education 
 in Ireland," to request that you will furlfuvilh transmit to me the names and addresses of 
 tlie patrons, governors, trustees, visitors, or managers, of the school of which you arc the 
 principal master. 
 
 I enclcjse a copy of the Conunissicm under which the Commissioners ]ia\e lieen appointed 
 
 1 am, Sir, your obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 To the Principal Master of 
 
 Foniifi. 
 
 IV Ciicular to 
 
 Masters, asking for 
 Names of Trustees. 
 
 V. — Circular addressed to the Clergy of Ireland inquiring as to Schools and 
 
 Endowments. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 
 Dublin Castle, , 18.5 . 
 
 Revkrenl. Sir,— I am directed by Ilcr Majesty's Commissioners for iiupiiring " into^ 
 the endowments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the j)urposes ot 
 education in Ireland," to request that you will, 'at your earliest convenience, iuruish the 
 Commissioners with rejjlies to the following questions: — 
 
 (1.) Whether there are any, and if any what, endowed schools in your parish or 
 district ':* 
 
 (2.) Whether there arc any, and if any what, endowments or funds for the estab- 
 lishment of schools not in operation ? 
 
 (3.) What are the names and adilresses of the principal masters of such schools? 
 (4.) What are the names and addresses of the patrons, governors, trustees, visitors, 
 or managers of such schools ? 
 I enclose a copy of the Commission under which the Commissioners have been appointed. 
 I have the honour to be, Reverend Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 To the Reverend 
 
 V. — Circular 
 aiMressed to tlie 
 (.'lergy of Ireland, 
 inquiring as to 
 .Seliools and Kndnw- 
 mcnts. 
 
 VI. — Circular addressed to Secretaries of Societies havini 
 
 with them. 
 
 Schools in connexion 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, , 18.5 
 
 Sir, — I am directed by Her jNIajesty's Commissioners for inquiring " into the endow" 
 ments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the purposes of education in 
 Ireland," to request that you will, at your earliest convenience, furnish the Commissioners 
 ■with re])lies to the following questions : — 
 
 (1.) Whether there are any, and if any what, endowed schools in connexion with 
 [N. Socicti/ or Ax.sncidlimi^ 
 
 (2.) Whether there are any, and if any what, endowed schools, formerly in con- 
 nexion with your , and now disconnected therefrom? 
 
 (3.) What are the names and addresses of the principal masters of such schools? 
 (4.) What are the names and addresses of the patrons, governors, trustees, visitors, 
 
 or managers, of such schools? 
 
 (5.) Whether the records of vour 
 
 or auy 
 
 other sources of information 
 
 within your reach indicate the existence of any endowments or funds for the establish- 
 ment of schools not in operation ? 
 I enclose a copy of the Commission ttnder which the Commissioners have been a]q)ointed. 
 I have the honour to be. Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretarv. 
 
 VI— Circular 
 
 addressed to Secre- 
 taries of Societies 
 having Schools in 
 conue.xionwitli tlicm. 
 
 VII. — Circular to Deans of United Churcu, inquiring respecting Schools m connexion 
 
 with Cathedrals. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, , 185 . 
 
 Reverend Sir, — I am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring '■ into the 
 endowments, funds, and actual condition of all schools endowed for the ]iurposes of education 
 in Ireland," to request that you will, at j-our earliest convenience, furnish the Connnissioners 
 with replies to the following questions : — 
 
 (1.) Whether there are any, and if any what, endowed schools in coiuiexion with 
 the Cathedral of 
 
 VII — Circular 
 to Deans of United 
 Clmicli, inquiring 
 respecting Schools 
 in (omiexion with 
 Cathedrals.
 
 398 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 FOBMS. 
 
 VII Circular to 
 
 Deans of United 
 Church, inquiring 
 respecting Schools 
 in connexion with 
 Cathedrals. 
 
 (2.) T\1ietlifr there are any, and if any what, endowments or funds in connexion 
 therewith for the estabhshment of schools not in operation ? 
 
 (3.) What are the names and addresses of tlie principal masters of such schools? 
 
 (4.) What are the names and addresses of the imtrons, governors, trustees, visitors, 
 or managers, of such schools? 
 I enclose a copy of the Comiiiission under which the Commissioners have been appointed. 
 
 I have the honour to be. Reverend Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 To the Very Reverend the Dean of 
 
 VIII.— Circular 
 addres-ed to Masters, 
 under Statute 
 18 & 19 Vic, c. 69. 
 
 VIII. — Form of Circular addressed to Masters, under Statute 18 & 19 Vic, c. 59. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, , 185 . 
 
 Sir, — I am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into endowed schools 
 in Ireland, to forward a duplicate of the Form of Circular already addressed to you, and to 
 state that it is of importance for the business of the Commission that the returns applied 
 for should be made before the day of next. 
 
 I ha'\-e also to request that you will forthwith ti'ansmit to me the names and addresses 
 of the patrons, governors, trustees, visitors, and managers of the school of which you are 
 principal master. 
 
 The powers of the Commissioners have been sanctioned and extended by an Act of 
 Parliament, which imposes a penalty on those refusing to attend to the summons of the 
 Commissioners. 
 
 I am. Sir, your obedient servant, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 To 
 
 IX Circular 
 
 addressed toTrustecs, 
 
 under Statute 
 
 18 & 19 Vic, c. 69. 
 
 IX. — Form of Circular addressed to Trustees, under Statute 18 & 19 Vic, c. 59. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission, 
 Dublin Castle, , 185 . 
 
 Sir, — I am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for inquiring into Endowed Schools 
 in Ireland, to forward a duplicate of the Form of Circular already addressed to you, and 
 to state that it is of importance for the business of the Commission that the retui'ns appUed 
 for should be made before the day of next. 
 
 The powers of the Commissioners have been sanctioned and extended by an Act of 
 Parliament, which imposes a penalty on those refusing to attend to the summons of the 
 Commissit)ners. 
 
 I have the honour to be. Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 To 
 
 Secretary. 
 
 X. — Circular 
 addressed to Mana- 
 gers of National 
 Schools, having 
 Subscriptions or 
 Endowments distinct 
 from the Parliament- 
 ary Grants. 
 
 X. Form of Circular addressed to Managers of National Schools, having 
 
 Subscriptions or Endowments distinct from the Parliamentary Grants. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commis.sion, 
 DuWin Castle, , 185 . 
 
 ^jR I am directed by Her Majesty's Commissioners for "inquiring into Endowed 
 
 Schools in Ireland" to state that the school, of which you arc manager, has been returned 
 by the Commissioners of National Education in Ireland, as lia\ ing either endowments or 
 annual suliscriiitions in adilitiun to the funds derived from j)ai'lianK'ntary grunt for education. 
 
 Under these circumstances I am directed to inquire, whether the amount referred to 
 arises from land, or from any other permanent endowment seciu'ed to the school, or from 
 annual subscri])tions entirely optional on the part of the donors. 
 
 I enclose a copy of the Commission under which the Commis! 
 and of Statute 18 & 19 Vic, cli. 59. 
 
 Commissioners have been appointed, 
 
 I have the honour to be, Sir, vour very obedient servant, 
 
 Secretary. 
 
 To 
 
 Manager of the National School.
 
 FORMS. 399 
 
 XI. — Form of Notick of Pdblic Court. Forms. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission — 18 & 19 Vic, ch. 59. XI.— Notice o€ 
 
 AT , ■ yn 7 1- /^ 1 Public Court. 
 
 Notice oj Puhlir Court. 
 
 County of ) Ilcr Majesty's Commissioners for irKiuirin^j; into all schools eiulowcd 
 C for the purposes of education in Ireland, give notice, that they will hohl 
 a Public Court in the Grand Jury room of the County Court House of 
 
 , at Twelve o'clock on , the day of , to e.xaminc and 
 
 inquire into the state, condition, and management, of all schools of Royal founda- 
 tion in the county of , the schools on the foundation of Erasmus Smith, 
 
 the charter schools, and diocesan schools, and all schools enilowcd on charitable or 
 public foundations, in the county of , and the nature and extent of the in- 
 struction given therein, and also the nature, amount, and ainuial or other value of 
 the estates, lands, funds, and annual or other income given, granted, or applied for the 
 establishment or support of such schools, or for the purposes of education therein, and 
 the annual income derived from such endowments, and how the same has been applied, 
 and into all other matters connected with such schools, and tlie system of education pursued 
 therein. 
 
 Any person desirous to afford information to the Commissioners at such coin-t, is re- 
 quested to transmit to the Secretary, at the Gi'and Jury room , before the hour of 
 
 ten o'clock on the day aforesaid, an account of the nature of his proposed statement. 
 
 By Order, 
 
 , Secretary. 
 
 XII. — Form of Warrant appointing Districts for Assistant-Commissioners. Xll.— Warrant 
 
 Whereas under and by virtue of Statute 18 & 19 Victoria, c. 59, intituled "An Act to for Assistant-Com- 
 facilitate inquiries of Commissioners of Endowed Schools in Ireland," His Excellency the missioners. 
 
 Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, upon our requisition, has appointed to act in aid of 
 
 us and under our directions in execution of the objects of the said statute. We do hereby 
 
 direct you the said to visit and inspect all and every the endowed schools in the 
 
 County of , and to examine and inquire into the state, condition, and management 
 
 of the said endowed schools, and the nature and extent of the instruction given therein; and 
 also into the nature, amount, and annual or other value of the endowments given, granted, 
 or applied for the establishment or support of such schools respectively, or for the jturposes 
 of education therein, and the annual income derived from such endowments, and how the 
 same has been applied, and into other matters connected with such schools, and the system 
 of education pursued therein, as contained in the form of report hereunto annexed and 
 marked (A), and from time to time to report thereon to us in respect of said schools. 
 
 Dated this day of , in the year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred 
 
 and Fifty 
 
 To , Assistant-Commissioner. 
 
 XIII. — Form [A] of Report from Assistant-Commissioner, as to a School in Operation. XIII — Report 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission. — Report of , Assistant-Commissioner, mi'^ioner? Mto a 
 
 Name of School, Comity of . S*^^°°^ "> Operation. 
 
 Date of visit, day of . — — — , 185 . 
 
 Period occupied by visit, from . to — . 
 
 The Assistant-Commissioner, when inspecting a school, will remember that it is of essen- 
 tial importance to the efficacy of his inquiry that his visit should be made dm'ing school 
 hours, and should be, as much as possible, unexpected. He should, in the first instance, 
 inspect the schoolroom, dormitories, &c., and afterwards proceed to examine the master 
 and pupils. 
 
 The Commissioners desire to have answers to the following questions : — 
 
 Dcscrijitioii of School. 
 
 1. Wliat is the name and locality of the school? 
 
 2. By whom and when endowed? 
 
 3. How long has it been in operation ? 
 
 Sckoolhouse. 
 
 4. What is the situation and condition of the schoolhouse and offices? 
 
 5. Is it provided with dormitories, schoolrooms, working-rooms, dining-hall, infirmary, or 
 
 other offices ? 
 
 6. By whom and when was the schoolhouse built ? 
 
 7. By whom repaired, and out of what funds? 
 
 8. What are the dimensions of the schoolroom and dormitories?
 
 400 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Forms. 
 
 XIII —Report 
 
 from A?sistnnt-Com- 
 uiissioner, as to :i 
 School in Operation. 
 
 0. Is there any ijarden or land attaclied to the schoolhouse ? 
 
 10. I5v wliom and in what manner is the hind oecuiiied? 
 
 11. What benefit is derived therefrom to tlie scliool? 
 
 12. Bv what tenure is the schoolhouse and land held? 
 
 13. Is there any play ground, or any appliances for exei'cise or amusement? 
 
 14. If there are dormitories, what is the number of beds? 
 lo. What is the condition of the furniture, bedding, &c.? 
 Ifi. Are they clean and in good repair? 
 
 17. Is there lavatory accommodation, and what is the nature of it? 
 
 18. What accommodation is there in respect of urinals, water-closets, privies, &c.? 
 
 Teachers. 
 
 What is the name of the principal master? 
 
 ,, his age? 
 
 ,, his religion? 
 
 Date of appointment? 
 By whom was he appointed? 
 What was his previous education? 
 
 Did he undergo any training; and if so, at what establishment? 
 Did he pass any examination previous to his appointment? 
 
 Has he received any and what rules for guidance in the performance of his duty? 
 Wliat department in teaching does the master conduct? 
 What time does he spend daily in the schoolroom ? 
 What is his manner, appearance, and general fitness? 
 How many assistant-masters are there? 
 By whom appointed ? 
 By whom paid? 
 
 Are any deductions made from their salary? 
 What is their de])artment in teaching? 
 What is their manner, appearance, and general fitness? 
 How many monitors? 
 By whom appointed? 
 By whom jiaid ? 
 What are the school hours? 
 What intervals are allowed for recreation ? 
 
 Are there any vacations, at what seasons, and for what periods ? 
 Has the master any other and what employment ? 
 Docs he farm any land ? 
 Is there any and what pension paid by the pupils, and whether in advance or 
 
 otherwise? 
 Has the teacher any and what apartments in the schoolhouse ? 
 
 19. 
 20. 
 21. 
 22. 
 23. 
 24. 
 25. 
 26. 
 ■21. 
 '2i. 
 29. 
 30. 
 31. 
 32. 
 33. 
 34. 
 35. 
 3(). 
 37. 
 38. 
 39. 
 40. 
 41. 
 42. 
 43. 
 44. 
 45. 
 
 46. 
 
 47. 
 48. 
 49. 
 50. 
 51. 
 b2. 
 53. 
 54. 
 55. 
 56. 
 57. 
 58. 
 59. 
 60. 
 
 61. 
 62. 
 63. 
 
 64. 
 
 65. 
 
 66. 
 67. 
 68. 
 69. 
 
 70. 
 71. 
 72. 
 
 Pi/pik. 
 How many pupils present? 
 How many of these are boarders ? 
 How many day pupils ? 
 How many free pu]:ils? 
 How many j>u])!!s on the roll? 
 How many of these are boarders? 
 How many day pupils? 
 How many free pupils? 
 
 What was the average daily attendance for the year 1854? 
 What is the average daily attendance during the current year? 
 By whom are the free pupils iU)UH"nated? 
 On what grounds arc they selected? 
 
 Are there any college exhiliitions coinicctcd with the school? 
 ijidowinent, luimbcr, amount, conditions of tenure, and all other particulars relating 
 
 to them. 
 From what localities do the pupils come? 
 To what class of life do the parents belong? 
 What is their subsequent success in life? 
 
 What punislnnents are resorted to? 
 
 If corporal jiunishmcnt, does the master enter it on the register, or rejiort it lo 
 
 visitors? 
 Are there any periodical reports of the conduct and jiroficiency of the pupils? 
 Are examinations of the scholars held at stated times? 
 Are rewards given for diligence and good answering? 
 Out of what fluids arc they provided. 
 
 Cotirnc of Iiistniclioii. 
 What is the course of education and state of instruction in the school ? 
 Is instruction given in modern languages? 
 Is vocal music taught?
 
 FORMS. 401 
 
 73. Upon whiit system, and for wli;it period of tlic day ? Forms. 
 
 74. Is drawing tauglit? .... , .„ XIIL-Kcport 
 
 75 Is tiiere any industrial euijtloynient in the scliool, or in connexion with it; and it so, from Assistant-Com- 
 
 the nature of it? ' missionor a« to a 
 
 _^ -.xn 11 1 • .1 1 to .Scliool in OiieratiOM. 
 
 76. What books arc used m tlic school .'' 
 
 77. Wiiat is the number of i)upils using them respectively? 
 
 78. Is tliere an adequate sujjply of books and school requisites? 
 
 79. Hy wlioin provided, and iroiii \\li;\t fun<l? 
 
 80. By whom clio.sen ? 
 
 81. Is there any school library? 
 
 82. By whom supplied, and how maintained? 
 S3. Any museum, models, instruments, &c.? 
 
 C/"/// /'//;/, Dili, mill S'Oiifari/ Arranriementf:. 
 
 8i. What is the nature of the clothing and dieting of boarders? 
 
 85. Is there any iidirn)ar\- attached to the school, or any provision in case of infectious 
 
 diseases ? 
 8G. What is the state of the ventilation, lighting, and warming of the rooms? 
 
 87. Is there an adequate supply of good water? 
 
 Religion. 
 
 88. What is the nunil)or of the pupils belonging to each religious denomination? 
 8!). What are the religious exercises of the pupils? 
 
 ilO. Is insti'uction given in the religious tenets of any denomination, or is any catechism 
 taught in the school ; if so, by whom, at what periods, in what places, and how often, 
 between January 1, 1854, and July 1, 1855? 
 
 91. How often is the school visited by a clergyman? 
 
 92. Does he inquire into the progress of the pupils in secular learning? 
 
 93. Does he make distinct entries in the report book, of the result of his examination into 
 
 the religious and secular instruction, respectively? 
 
 94. Is the use of books of religious instruction restricted to hours set apart for that 
 
 purpose ? 
 
 95. Is the school confined to pu])ils of any religious denomination ; or docs any, and 
 
 what arrangement interfere with the attendance of any class of juipils? 
 
 96. Has the school any connexion with any religious society or association ; and if so, 
 
 wdiat is the nature of such connexion ? 
 
 Apprcntici)!;]. 
 
 97. Is there any, and what arrangement for apprenticing the pupils, or any funds for 
 
 that purpose ? 
 
 98. Is any notice taken of the conduct of the apprentices? 
 
 Gurvr nine III and Inspection. 
 
 99. Is the school under the superintendence of any board, society, or association? 
 
 100. Is there any visitation of the school ; and if so, by whom, and how often? 
 
 101. What are the dates of the three last inspections? 
 
 102. Is there any other, and wdiat school in the district, and at what distance? 
 
 103. What is the population of the district? 
 
 104. Its wealth, or poverty, industrial resources, and the occupation of population ? 
 
 Income. 
 
 105. What is the salary of the master? 
 
 106. Bv whom ])aid? 
 
 107. What are the salaries of the assistants? 
 
 108. Have the master and assistants any other emoluments or advantages arising out of 
 
 their connexion with the school ? 
 
 109. If the master is in the occupation of any house, garden, or land, what is the value 
 
 thereof? 
 
 Defecl.i. 
 
 110. St4itc any defects observed, either in the amount or quality of instruction given, or 
 
 in the discipline and internal management of the school, or in any other respect 
 
 you think deserving of notice, especially in reference to the various heads or topics 
 
 hereinbefore suggested for iiKpiirv. 
 
 The Assistant-Commissioner is to insert the name, addition, and address of everv person 
 
 examined upon oath by him, upon whose evidence any portion of tlie foregoing information 
 
 has been acquired. 
 
 The Commissioners desire that some examination should be instituted by the Assistant- 
 Commissioner in English dictation, or on any other subject that he may think lit to select, 
 and that the results should be accurately stated in his report. 
 
 The above instructions are not intended to limit the investigation of the Assistant-Com- 
 missioner, Avho will |)roceed with all jiossible freedom, considering that the fullest and 
 most perfect information that can be had is the object of the Commissioners. 
 
 , Assistant-Commissioner. 
 
 dav of , 185 
 
 Vol. II. ' 3 F
 
 402 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Forms. 
 
 Xry.— Report of 
 Assistant-Commis- 
 sioner as to Endow, 
 ments Not in 
 Operation. 
 
 XV Heads of 
 
 Instructions for 
 Jlnspector of Estates. 
 
 XIV Form [B] of Report of Assistant-Commissioner as to Endowments Not in Operation 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission. 
 
 Name of Endowment, County of 
 
 In respect of endowments for educational purposes, where there is no school in existence, 
 the Assistant-Commissioner will endeavour to furnish answers to the following questions : — 
 
 1. Is there any site for a schoolhouse, and what is its extent and position, and is it suitable 
 
 for the purpose ? 
 
 2. Is there any land the subject of endowment? 
 
 3. Ai-e there any and what funds intended for the purpose, and how are they circumstanced ? 
 
 4. What is the natm-e and date of the instrument creating the endowment ? 
 
 5. What are the causes wliicli have prevented the establishment or continuance of the school? 
 
 6. By what means could these causes be removed or obviated ? 
 
 , Assistant-Commissioner. 
 
 day of , 1 85 
 
 XV. — Heads of Instructions for Inspector of Estates. 
 
 The object of the inspection is to ascertain whether the estates that form the endow- 
 ments of schools in Ireland are as well managed, as a prudent proprietor would have his 
 own estates, if managed by an agent under his du-ection. 
 
 The inspector will be supplied with the following documents relating to each estate: — 
 1st. Such surveys as can be obtained. 
 
 2nd. Old rentals contained in reports of former Commissioners. 
 3rd. Rentals and agents' accounts, up to the latest date. 
 4tli. Leases. 
 5th. Valuations and reports on the estates where such exist. 
 
 The inspector will, in the first instance, visit the lands, perambulate the boundaries, so as 
 to ascertain that land has not been lost by encroachments, to see the condition of the 
 tenants, and to hear what they have got to say. 
 
 He will next ascertain whether the rentals returned by the agents correspond with the 
 way in which tlie land is actually held by the occupying tenants. 
 
 He will also ascertain whether the amount of arrears returned is admitted by the tenants, 
 and when the arrears are large observe specially upon the condition of the farm, and upon 
 the circumstances under which they accrued. 
 
 The insiiector will next inquire into the rate of letting of the land as compared with lands 
 of the same quality in the neighliourhood, and as compared with the rate of letting at 
 former periods, so as to ascertain whether the lands have been let so as to produce the full 
 value consistent with the prosperity of tlie tenantry. 
 
 Where the accounts or returns show an expenditiu'e on improvement, by drainage or 
 otherwise, the inspector will report on the present state of the improvements, and whether 
 the result is such as might have been expected from the expenditure, considering the time 
 Avhen it was made. 
 
 As to leases, the inspector will ascertain whether the present rental corresponds with 
 the lettings under the leases, and whether they are duly entered by the agent in the rental 
 or in any lease book; he will also ascertain whether the lands in the lease have been sublet, 
 and if so, whether the agents have any resrister of the subordinate interests. 
 
 The inspector will conclude each report with a statement of lus general impression, as 
 to the state and management of the property, and state any improvements that the inspec- 
 tion may have suggested to him. 
 
 XVI.—Notice of 
 Inspection by 
 Inspector of Estates. 
 
 XVI. — Form of Notice of Inspection by Inspector of Estates. 
 
 Endowed Schools (Ireland) Commission. — 18 & 19 Vic, ch. 59. 
 
 Nolicc of Inspection of Estates of Eiiduired Scliooln. 
 
 Her Majesty's Commissioners for Iniiuiring into all schools 
 endowed for tlie purjioses of education in Ireland, give notice 
 tiiat James William Murland, Esquire, appointed by his Ex- 
 cellency the Lord Lieutenant to make a special inspection of 
 
 in the county of the estjitcs under the management of the Commissioners of 
 
 Education, the Governors of the Schools founded by Erasmus 
 
 J Smith, Esq., the Incorporated Society, and all other estates 
 
 belonging to endowed schools in Ireland, will visit and inspect, on , the day 
 
 The 
 
 portion of 
 the 
 
 — Estate, being 
 the Estates of 
 
 the estate, being portion of the estates of the 
 
 and consisting of the townlands of , in the Parishes of 
 
 school 
 
 -, and County 
 
 of . 
 
 Any person desirous to afford information to the insi)octor at sucli inspection, is requested 
 to transmit it in writing to J. W. Murland, Esq., at the office of the Commission, Dublin 
 Castle, or to conimunicate with liini at the time of his inspection. 
 
 By Order, 
 
 Dublin Castle, 
 
 185 
 
 -, Secretary.
 
 INDEX.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE: 
 
 CONTAINING 
 
 An Index to SCHOOLS, and to Evidence uelating to the particular School or 
 ENDOWMENT in each instance ; 
 
 An Index to SUBJECTS ; 
 
 An Index to WITNESSES, and the Evidence of each ; 
 
 An Index to COURTS or INQUIRY held by the Commissioners. 
 
 [Note. — The Figures of Reference in the Index refer, not to the Pages, but to the Numbers 
 of the Questions and Answers, except where otherwise expressed. Where " j^age" is 
 mentioned, it has reference to the latter portion of tlie Second Volume, after the series of 
 numbered questions and answers^ 
 
 Alheyhix, Queen's County : (Lady Lancsborough's EuJowment.) 
 
 Committee of House of Commons on Foundation Schools reported (1835,) some revenues then 
 unascertained attaching to Lady Lanesborough's charity school at Abbeylcix, 5099. 
 
 Letter from Ilev. Tliomas Nolan, p.p., Abbeyleix; no trace of it, 5100. 
 
 Evidence of the lion, and Rev. "William Wingfield, Rector of Abbeyleix ; has not heard of such 
 a school, 5101. 
 
 No longer in operation, 5113, 51 IC. 
 
 Abbeylcix preferable to Ballyroan for a school ; see Ballnroan. 
 
 Abbott, Rev. U. S., formerly connected with the Incorporated Society for promoting English Protestant 
 Schools in Ireland; — Evidence of, 21473 et seq., 23207, 23i'09 f? Sfy. ; letters from, relating to 
 evidence of himself and other witnesses, as to Incorporated Society and their school.s, 23208, 23213 
 et seq. — (See under Incorporated /Socie/i/.) 
 
 Academical Institution, the Royal, Belfast ; sec under Belfast, 
 
 Academies, County ; see Comity Schools. 
 
 A cademy, the Belfast ; sec under Belfast, 
 
 Accounts : 
 
 Of the Q,\9,XQ-&i\-p<ii Commissioners of Education ; well kept but improvable, 21425-51, 21468-72 ; 
 Mr. Fetherstone, Law Agent's accounts of costs thirteen years in arrear (see under Commissioners, 
 and J'Jras7mis Smith Board,) 21372 et seq. Accounts of Royal Scliool Estates and arrears (see 
 Estates) ; Kyle, 21380-424. Accounts never audited ; never tlie custom of the Board, Kyle, 21467. 
 Irregularity of charging to school estates, expenses which should have been cliari,'ed to Cimsolidated 
 Fund as ollice expenses; Fetherstone, 23G97 etseq.: (see further, under Commissionei-s of Education.) 
 
 Kccouwis, oi Incorporated Society ; how kept; defective and irregular, 20352-4, &c. Mode and 
 description of audit by Committee of the Society; and its defective nature, 20412-23, <tc. (see 
 evidence of Mr. ArdiU, Mr. Abbott, Mr. Stubbs, under Incorporated Society). 
 
 Accounts of Erasmus Smith Board ; defective and unsatisfactory mode of keeping ; difl'erenccs as to 
 whom the respousibilitj' attaches to for the state of the accounts, 21549-82 et seq. (see evidence of 
 Mr. Barlow, Mr. Fetherstone, Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Thorpe, under Erasmus Smith Board). Course of 
 proceeding in regard to audit, 19579-81, 19592, 19608-17. 
 
 Accounts of Schools ; how kept and passed ; — Cork, St. Nicholas, Dunscombe, 2038, 2051, 
 Drogheda Blue School, Shaw, 12621-3, 12G37-9. Defective system of; Cork Blue Coat School, 
 Chattcrton, 1514, 15C2; Newcnham, 1519-36, 1551. Oxmaniown, Hone, 22085-35; Hyndman, 
 22410-1. Downpatrick, Ilarrell, 9971-9. 
 
 Defects and discrepancies in school returns, from defective records or want of registers ; 
 Ballyroan, Lyon, 4771, 4812 et seq. Cavan, Moore, 7892-915. Clonmel, Kettlewell, li\, 747, 
 771, 835-841. Galway, Killeen, 0519-41. Midleton, Hodgens, 18470-96, 19049-56. Mujjf, 
 Kyle, 10673-99. Templemichael, Fetherston, 7512-53. 
 
 As to accounts of respective schools ; numbers of pupils, income and expenditure, charges and 
 other details, see further, under Names of the particular Schools, 
 
 Audit of; sec under Audit. 
 
 3G
 
 406 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSIOxY. 
 
 Acts of Parliament : see Legislation. 
 
 Adams, RohtTt W. Goold, Esq., j.p., one of the Visitors of Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork : Evi- 
 dence of, 1S287-1S342. 
 
 Charges preferred by, ugainst the master, Dr. Hodgens, 18292, 18312 et scy.— School not well 
 conducted, 1S319 : defects and irregularities specified, 18320 et seq. (see imdcT Jlidleton). — Disqua- 
 lification of a pupil for an exhibition to Trinity College, by reason of irregular attendance at 
 school, 18330 et seq. 
 
 Rules and practice in regard to Visitation, 18301, 18303. — Rules not acted upon, 1830G : five 
 visitations recorded in seven years, 18304 ; visitations ought to be more frequent and regular, 
 18302, 18307 ; and public, 18308. 
 
 Admission of free pupils to schools ; see under Free Places. 
 Affhada, Co. Cork. 
 
 Information in reports of previous inquiries; parish school, free school, mentioned, with a house 
 and two acres of land, 1142. 
 
 Rev. Will'am P. Townsend, Rector of Aghada : Communication from, 1141; Evidence of, 
 1143-6. Portion of glebe land granted in 1729, to Churchwanlens for a Protestant schoolmaster, 
 and so held until death of parish clerk in 1833 : unsuccessful legal proceedings for its recovery; 
 house since built by the parties holding it, who pay no rent or rent-charge, 1141. Still thinks the 
 land recoverable; two houses and more than an acre; original grant and evidence producible, 
 1143-6. 
 
 Aglish, Co. Mayo ; free school formerly existing, with fifty-eight Protestant pupils and seven Roman 
 Catholics, all girls ; endowment, grant from Lord Lieutenant's fund : no information of such a 
 school now, 6080-2. 
 
 Agricultural Schools, and Agricultural Training in Schools : 
 
 Farra Institution, Co. Westmeath ; agricultural instruction, 13484 et seq., 23276-89 : (see nature 
 and extent of instruction in agriculture or horticulture, 13484-641.) — Has ceased to be an agri- 
 cultural school (see Farra, and 3£r. Ard ill's evidence, under Incorporated Socieli/). 
 
 Kilcommon, Co. Mayo, 6220 : model farming school ; closed (see Kilcommon), 6225. 
 
 Primrose Grange, Co. Sligo, 6803, 23275-6 : (see under Sligo.) 
 
 Swonls, and Fingal Agricultural Society, 14019, 14377-81 ; (see under Swords.) 
 
 Templemoyle, Co. Derrj^, 11012. 
 
 Tubrid, Co. Fermanagh, 12184. 
 
 And see under Names of respective localities or institutions. 
 
 Want of agricultural and industrial schools on school estates, Clare-street Board, Owen, 5172-83. 
 Failure of attempts to introduce agricultural or industrial instruction in Royal School, and causes ; 
 C'aean, Moore, 7979-82. Appointment of an agriculturist for improvement of husbandry of tenants 
 on EnniskiUen Royal School Estates, 11902-4. 
 
 Want of agricultural and industrial training in schools; Stonei/, Castlebar, 6141-8. OBonolioe, 
 Waterford, 16595, 16601-4, 16615-22. 
 
 Alcoch, John C; Esq., Barrister-at-Law ; Evidence of, relating to Waterford Corporation Free School, 
 252-7, 299, 414-8. 
 
 Refusal of the Corporation to pay the salary of the master in 1842, and proceedings thereon, 
 252, 257 : difficulties arising out of existing legislation, 414-8. — Endowment, a house in bad 
 part of town, unfavourable to the school, aud in fact no advantage to it, 253 : school would be 
 benefited by having a house in a better locality, 253-6. — Since former master transferred to 
 EnniskiUen School, many boys from Waterford go to EnniskiUen, partly on account of tho 
 endowment there, 253, 256. 
 
 Amongst the boarders, a great proportion Roman Catholic, 255. — Successful combination of 
 classical and commercial education, 257. 
 
 Alexander, James FuUerton, Esq., Manager, Provincial Bank, Omagh ; Communicntion from, on the 
 part of a deputation from inhabitants of Omagh, Co. Tyrone, as to the general state of education 
 in the county; the non-ajjplication of funds for tho county, to the neighbourhood of Omagh ; 
 and tho want of facilities lor the education of middle and upper classe.'*, 11452: Evidence of, 
 115fl6-1163L 
 
 Want of endowed school at Omagh for intermediate education, 11559-62, 11590: want of 
 means for a classical and commcrciat education combined, 11563, 11601. — Preference for a day- 
 school under parent's eye, to sending children to boarding school at a distance, 11561, 11564-6. — 
 Would prefer religious instruction being under parent's direction rather than j)art of daily school 
 course, 11602-5. 
 
 Of three clerks in Omagh Bank, none educated at Omagh, 11577-9 : no adequate means there of 
 procuring such education as they rc(juire, 11580-1 ; young men in mercantile cni])loymcnt very 
 deficient in education, 11582. — Fitness for engagements as clerks in the bank, tested by examina- 
 tion ; heads of examination ; utility of modern languages, 11584-9. 
 
 For success in commercial life, an enlarged education essential, embracing scientific knowledge 
 and modern languages, 11567-8, 11571-6 : not generally given in grammar or clussical schools, 
 11569 : commercial e<lucation neglected, 11570 : iustancea, Uoyal School of Dungannon, Diocesan 
 School at Dorry, Endowed School of Portora (EnniskiUen Royal School) ; but si>eaUs from hearsay 
 only, 11606-11. " i y 
 
 Probable numbers who wouM attend such a school as is required at Omagh, on moderate 
 terms, 11590-1 1601. — Nature of endowment required for a good school at Omagh, including 
 liberal .salaries for well qualified masters, 11560, 11613-31.— A local t:ix for education would bo 
 objected to, 11632. 
 
 Aleyn's Blue School, Downpatrick : sec Dotvnpa'riclc.
 
 IXDKX TO EVIDENCE. 407 
 
 Alienation of Endowments ; sco under Endowments. 
 
 Allen, William John Campbell, Esq., Secretary of Board of Managers of Royal Belfast Academical 
 Institution : — 
 
 Statenictit coiiinuinicatcd liy, 104l'0, 101:2]. Origin, olijccts, means of support, and managc- 
 roont of tlie institution, 10120 : primarily intoiulcd us a school for middle clas.ses of all roligion.s, 
 combining classical and nicrciintilo education ; College department fur liiglior brandies 
 usual in tlie university undergraduate course ; School de]iartnient for elementary instruction and 
 mercantile education ; College for Presbyterian ministers ; Medical school : — College department 
 .superseded on opening of Queen's College in 1811), and parliamentary grant witlidravv-n ; — School 
 department continues in operation ; educates a large number of jiupils of middle classes in a 
 comprehensive course of instruction at a low rate : well calculated to be an intermediate school 
 for middle and higher classes, between the National Schools and the Queen's Colleges ; but inade- 
 quacy of means in its present financial condition, 10420. 
 
 Evidence of, 10442-00. — Number of pupils, 104, and course of education, in tlio si.x: schools in 
 the institution, 10442-5. Manner in which combined instruction in difl'erent branches, is ma- 
 naged, 1044G. 
 
 Pupils formerly received in the college department, chiefly from the schools of the institution 
 itself or from intermediate schools in the county which have now disappeared : National schools 
 have taken pupils who attended intermediate schools; consequent diminution of classical and 
 mathematical pupils, 10447. Agrees with Mr. Kirk, m.p. for Newry, in his suggestions (aoo ICirl), 
 10448. Increase of po])ulatiou of Belfast, without increase in number of classical pupils, 10447, 
 10449-53. Large numbers in English and mathematical departments of the institution, which 
 are on the increase, 10459-G2; reasons of increase, 104G.3-G : classical department diminishing, 
 104G4. Want of facilities whicli formerly existed for higher education preliminary to college 
 course; diminution of private schoolmasters or ministers engaged in tuition, 10447, 10454-6. 
 
 Admission of free pupils, how regulated; only three subscribers who can send in free pupils; 
 but masters often receive free pupils from private considerations, and exclusively at their own 
 discretion, 10457-8. 
 
 Allin, Thomas, Esq., j.p., Midleton, Co. Cork : — 
 
 Communications from, in reference to complaints of conduct of Midleton Endowed School, 17G25, 
 17630, 17G31, 17G34, 17G35 : Correspondence between Mr. Allin and the master. Dr. Hodgcns, 
 and other.s, 17G3G et seq., 17802. 
 
 Evidence Had two sons at Midleton Endowed School for some years, 176G3-70 : their 
 
 conduct and previous instruction, good, 17G71-5. Not satisfied with their progress at Midleton 
 School ; management of school coni])lained of, for want of discipline and proper control, for careless- 
 ness and negligence, and master and assistant master improperly absenting themselves, to the injury 
 of the pupils, 17G76 et seq.: complaints of other parents (see evidence of Mr. Wilkinsm and 
 others, under Midleton,) and boys removed from the school, 17683, 17700, 17724, 17746-7, 17821. 
 
 Want of sufficient visitation of the school, and of publicity, 17728-17732. 
 
 Charges preferred by, at an investigation held at a visitation in 1854, at the school, by the 
 trustees, 17632, 17633, 17736 et seq. 17781. 
 (See under Midleton.) 
 
 Allin, Thomas, jun., son of Thomas Allin, Esq., j.p., Midleton (see Allin, supra), and formerly a pupU 
 in Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork. 
 
 Evidence of (in reference to the complaints against the school), as to the instruction he re- 
 ceived and the persons from whom he received it, while at that school, 17855 et seq., 17910-21, 
 17924-7, 17930-2, 17938-17941, 17945 et seq. : as to the attendance of the master. Dr. Ilodgens, 
 and its irregularities, 178G0-3, 17890, 17894, 17974; assistants, and conduct of school in master's 
 absence, 17858-9, 17893-4, 17911, 17&G9, 17975 et seq.; effect of master's absence on the dis- 
 cipline of the school ; irregularities specified, smoking, whiskey-drinking, ball-plaj'ing in school- 
 room, detonating balls in school during school hours, card-playinr;, and boys bartering their clothes 
 in school hours,' novel-readino-, &c., 17SG4-17892, 17903-5, 17923, 1792'8-9, 17943-4 et seq. : in- 
 terrujition to study, 17890; thefts in school, 17S97-171j01 : forged judgments, 17933-7 : at first, 
 discipline better, afterwards became more lax, 17971 ; warned his father not to send his brother 
 there, and preferred teaching him himself, 17S97.' — Went to Mr. Turpin's to receive instruction 
 while at this school, from dissatisfaction with ils nranagement, 1785G, 17906-17908: after leaving 
 school, was first exhibitioner at Trinity College for the Midleton prize ; Mr. Townsend's testi- 
 monial, 17909. 
 
 (See under Midleton.) 
 
 Allott, Rev. Ridiard, Precentor of Armagh Cathedral : — Evidence relating to the Choral School, Armagh, 
 9307-9313. 
 
 Statement in a Parliamentary Report (9306), erroneous ; school not endowed, 9308-10. School- 
 house and all property belonging to it vested in Vicars Choral, and applicable by them to any 
 purpose, 9311 ; origin and tenure of the school and site, 9313. 
 
 AUpress, Rev. John II., formerly Curate of Louth : — 
 
 Evidence of, relating to Stephenstown School, Co. Louth, endowed under the Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, but since closed, 12237-45. — School inactive operation in 1828: closed before he left 
 the parish in 1840; opened again after 1840: schools built by joint subscription of a former 
 incumbent. Rev. Elias Thackeray, and the landlord, Mr. Matthew Foitescue, the latter giving the 
 land, and a sum ffranted from Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; they also payins; the master, till the scholars 
 so diminished that the school was closed, 12239. — An agent of Mr. Fortescue took possession as 
 caretaker, and living in it, 12239, 12243. Major Fortescue in the Crimea, 12246. 
 
 Evidence of, relating to Tooms school, in parish of Louth ; question as to endowment : a parish 
 
 school, supported by diilcrcnt lauded proprietors in neighbourhood, 12249. 
 
 3 G2
 
 408 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Allana, or Attanagh, Darrow, Queen's County. 
 
 E-eports of previous inquiries ; endowment grant from Lord Lieutenant's fund for a scliool at 
 Attanatrli or Altana, Durrow, 4738-4744. 
 
 Correspondence with Eev. Samuel Madden, Incnnibcnt of Attanagh, Durrow : present school 
 has no endowment, and is under the Church Education Society, Kildare-place, 4737, 4740, 4743. 
 
 In all cases of grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, land required in perpetuity, 4745 : probability 
 of police barrack having been built on school site, 4743-4. 
 
 Anderson, Rev. David, Presbyterian Minister of Killinchy, County Down : 
 
 Evidence of, relating to a bequest of lands at Killinch}'', by the Hon. Mrs. Anno Hamilton, as 
 an endowment for a school, 9822-9S35: no funds left by Jlrs. Hamilton have been applied to 
 education in parish of Killinchy, 9834: rents of the lands collected by Mr. Pidgeon, on behalf of 
 the Incorporated Society, 9S-5-G. (See under Dundil':, Incorporated Society's School.) 
 
 Annadown and Woodpai-k Schools, Co. Galway : 
 
 Information from previous Inquiries : — Formerly a school in the chapel of Annadown ; bequest 
 by Rev. Redmond Hargadan, p.p., for gratuitous instruction ; Roman Catholic catechism used, 5410. 
 
 Rev. Thomas Keavenei/, v.t., Annadown: Letter from, 5409; Evidence, 5411-54G4. Was a 
 scliool in existence, but did not like the house or system of education ; wished to have the National 
 system : new school built by monks of St. Francis ; in operation three years and pirogressing very 
 well, 5411-3. There was a school at Woodpark, which got the interest of the money left by 
 Eev. Mr. Hargadan ; has not been in existence for some years and was formed into school 
 kept at the old chapel of Annadown, 5413, 5446. 
 
 Endowments of the Annadown and Woodpark schools united, 5433-40 : Mr. Ilargadan's will, 
 .7441-4. The school built by the monks endowed with interest of a sum also left by Mr. Hargadan ; 
 and land on which it stands given in perpetuity by Mr. Blake, of Gregg Castle, 541G-24, 54G1-4 ; 
 manner in which the money is invested, 5417, 5439, 5449. Visits the school; numbers of pupils, 
 and course of instruction, books, ifcc, 5426-32. Books in tse, generally those of the Christian 
 Brothers, but some of the Kational Board, 6431, 5454-9. 
 
 Annaduff, Co. Lei trim : 
 
 Information from previous inquiries: a school at Annaduff with endowment under Lord Lieuten- 
 ant's Fund, G920. 
 
 Letter from Rev. George Shaw, Rector of Annaduff; considers the school referred to, to be one 
 established in Drumsna by late Mrs. Waldron with a grant from Lord Lieutenant ; school long discon- 
 tinued, and house now occupied by Mr. Waldron's caretaker, part being used as Sessions-house, 6921 . 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James John Newport, Curate of Annaduff, — relates to present parochial school; 
 not aware whether it had a grant from Lord Lieutenant's fund, G922-8. 
 
 Evidence of John Duckworth, Esq., of Mountnorris, Co. Roscommon : — has seen the person 
 living in the Annaduff schoolhouse ; Mr. and Mrs. Waldron got aid from Lord Lieutenant's fund 
 for the building now used as the parish .school of AnnaduS', part of which is used as Sessious-house; 
 it is in the town of Drumsna, in parish of Annaduff: the school alluded to by Mr. Newport is under 
 the Kildare-place Society, 6929-30. 
 
 Annagrague, or Blennerville, Co. Kerry: 
 
 Letter from Rev. A. B. Rowan, d.d., Belmont, Tralee : Erasmus Smith School formerly at Anna- 
 grague or Upper Blennerville, discontinued more than twenty years ago ; no endowed school in 
 Blennerville, 2341. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman of Erasmus Smith Board (sec under Erasmus Smith 
 Board,) 19681. 
 Annalomjh School, Co. Monaghan : 
 
 Small sum given to, by R. C. Bishop M'Nally, out of M'Kenna and M'Ginn endowments (see 
 under Monar/han,) 8651, 8663. 
 
 Annuities: sen Pensions. 
 
 Antrim, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and cudowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Belfast, 10300 et seq. 
 
 Apartments : as to appropriation of, for school purposes and for residence of masters, ifec, of schools, see 
 
 under names of the parlicidar schools. 
 Apjohn, Rev. Lloi/d ; non-appearance of, at Limerick, respecting Erasmus Smith endowment, 3490 : 
 (see under Limerick.) 
 
 Appointments, Public : 
 
 Examinations for admission to Government civil service; Ze 7'n)!, Oxmantown, 22649-51 ; — 
 M'Cosh, Belfast, 10520. 
 
 Beneficial effect on education, as regards both pupils and masters, of throwing open public 
 appointments, in civil, military, and naval services, to competition, and giving them to best candi- 
 dates on cxjimination ; A'lV/^, Armagh, 9G44-5. /M, Watcrford, 301-5. Bullm, Govk, 2122-6, 
 2148-63. Burke, Limerick, 4724-6. O'Brini, Cork, 1235-7, 1G91-3. liim/ivood, Dungannon, 
 11859-79. Kinff, Ennis, 3873. J'owcr, Navan, 13070-2, 13075. Bishop of Down, 10484-5. 
 Dean Warburton, 7 S27-H. Preferable to endowments for gratuitous education; Jlishop of Cashel, 
 17220-8. 
 
 How to bo managed an<l manner of carrying out such a system, BuUen, Cork, 2151 et seq. King, 
 Ennis, 3874 et s<q. Dean Wurhnrdm, 7328-35. 
 
 Effect of jmblic competition by examination for, as stimulus to education, would be similar to that 
 of Exhibitions; perhaps better; A rchdracon Bell, Watcrford, 301-6. Doubts whether most wholesome 
 stimulus; dili'erent from that of Exhibitions; Ringwood, Dungannon, 11859-79 : — (ace Bxhibit ions.)
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 409 
 
 Apprenticeship : 
 
 Provision forap|)rciit.iciii^ Boy.s, and liow carrieil out ■.^Atldone, Mofl'att, 703G. C'cirlow, Browne, 
 76, 77. Cork Il/iw Coal Hckool,' VMl . J)otmpalrick Blue School, Ilarrell, 9080-2. JJrocjhtda Blue 
 School, 13432; atul Siiaw, 12047-2. Dundalk Incorporated Society School, 12257. Valentine 
 School, Frankfort, Co. Sli;,M, Stock, G331-48. Gwi/n I-iistitution. Londonderrij, Skipton, 1104;'), 
 11051, 11080. Alagherafdt, lO.'J74 ; and Irwin, 10577. Ocmantown, Co. Duiilin, Hone, 2203G, 
 22002-71. Swords, Co. DuLlin, 14019, 14028-9 et seq. Foy School, Waterford, 1G454, 1G952-5, 
 &c ; BishopofCashcl, 17142, 17183-99: (see under Waterford.) 
 
 Provision for apprenticing Girls : — Downpatrick Blue School, Ilarrell, 9983-10000. Swords, Co. 
 DuMin, 14019, 14025 et seq. Walir/ord Blue School, Carow, 577-83. 
 
 As to observation of conduct of apprentices, and treatment by nia-stcrs, after leaving scliool and 
 during apprenticesbip; Waterford Foy School, Bisliop of Cashed, 17149-51. Gxoxjn Institution, 
 Londonderry: — Boys when old enough, generally apprenticed, 11051; mode of selecting for 
 apprenticeship, 11081-2, 11095-G ; after-conduct of apprentices, 11075-80; visitation of appren- 
 tices quarterly, or half yearly if at a distance, recorded in a book, and apprentices aiipear every 
 six months before the Committee ; premiums awarded on satisfactory reports at terniinaliou of 
 apprenticeship, 1108G-91, llO'JG-7. 
 
 See further xtnder particular names referred to. 
 
 Apprenticeship system under Incorporated Society, who have now discontinued apprenticeship 
 in all their schools, Ardill, 23292-7. 
 
 Erasmus Smith ; provision in Charter as to apprenticeship ; how acted on. Barlow, 22933-42 ; 
 Hamilton, 21867-8. 
 
 Archdeacon Heivitson and Dean Scardevillo's endowments for a Protestant school at Swords : see Swords. 
 
 Ardee, Co. Louth ; Erasmus Smith Schools: 
 
 Information from previous inquiries : — Two schools, boys and girls; Corporation £rave land for 
 the latter, and £20 a-year towards master's salary, 12363: other particulars of endowments; 
 Ardee Boys School the first English school founded by Erasmus Smith governors out of surplus 
 funds accumulation, under Charter and Act of 10 Geo. I., 12363-5. 
 
 Evidence of Peter lliekey, Esq., Chairman of Town Commissioners: — Town Commissioners pay 
 £20 towards salary of master, and consider they should have some control in management of the 
 school, 12361, 12367, 12371 : wi.sh to have a voice in appointment of master, and to visit and 
 overlook the course of education, 12368-9. Complaints have been whispered that diti'erent religious 
 persuasions are obliged to read books they do not approve of, or that belong to another [ler.suasion ; 
 as, that Boman Catholics arc obliged to read the Testament of the Established Church, 12370. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, Treasui-cr, and Auditor of Erasmus Smith Board, in reference 
 to the representations as to this school, 23072-86. 
 
 Ardill, Rev. Fuchard, Secretary of Incorporated Society for promoting English Protestant Schools in 
 Ireland: — Communications from, relative to evidence of himself and other witnesses, as to Incor- 
 porated Society and their schools, 23210. 
 
 Evidence of, 20318 et seq., 20702 et seq., 20730-2, 20834 et seq., 23232 et seq., 2345S-G1. 
 See under Incorporated Society, and under names of particular schools. 
 
 Ardvally and Larcamore, Co. Sligo ; auxiliary schools in connection with Killglass (see Killjlass), 
 6545, 6550 et seq. 
 
 Armagh, Lord Archbishop of; see Primate. 
 
 Armagh, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Armagh, 9306 et seq. 
 
 ARMAail CnOEAL SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from previous Inquiries : — Described in Report of Commissioners of Public Instruc- 
 tion in Ireland, 1835, as Cathedral School endowed by the Primate to educate boys of the choir 
 &c., 9306. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Allott, Precentor of Cathedral, 9307-9313 : — Statement read as above, 
 altogether erroneous : school not endowed by Primate or anybody ; no endowment ; cannot account 
 for the error, 9308-10. School-house and all property belonging to it vested in the Vicars Choral 
 and applicable by them to any purpose ; origin and tenure of the school and site, 9311-3. 
 
 ARMAGH ROYAL SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from Peports of previous Inquiries, &c., 9335-9361. 
 
 Charter, temp. Car. I. (16 Dec. 1627); grants of lands to the Primate for Royal Schools in 
 Counties of Cavau, Tyrone, and Fermanagh, (see Cavan. Dunrjannon, Enniskiltcri.) and for the use 
 of the master for the time being of the free school at Mountnorris, in Co. Armagh ; terms of trust, 
 in free, pure, and perpetual alms, 9335. 
 
 Report (1807) of Commissioners of Education Inquiry ; particulars of the Armagh School estate, 
 its proceeds, management, charges upon it, buildings, staft', and conduct of the school, which is reported 
 of as in the highest repute, 9336-7. 
 
 Act of 53 Geo. III., c. 107, constituting Commissioners of Education in Ireland (Clare-street 
 Board), and vesting the pro])crty of the Royal Schools and others in them, 9338 ; application of 
 funds, and provision for free scholars at the school, and for exhibitions to Trinity College, out 
 of any surplus that may remain or arise after providing for salaries of head an<l under masters, 
 providing and maintaining buildings, grounds, and requisite accommodation for school ; terms of 
 section, 9339,
 
 410 ENDOWED SCUOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION 
 
 Annarjh, Royal School — coutinucd. 
 
 Rfports of Clare-street Board, (1818); salary of mr'stcrand uuJer master, the former out of rents 
 payable by representatives of preceding master for the school lands held by them under a trust 
 lease for uucxpired term, 9340. — Report (1828) the application of an annual sum at their disposal 
 to the establishment of Exhibitions for three scholars from the Armagh School to Dulilin University, 
 934:3 : in 1832, trust leases about to expire, and proceedings of Commissioners with a view to their 
 entering on -tlie management of the estates, 9346. — In 1833, a lending classical library for exhibition 
 candidates, 9347 ; in 183G, lending library for the boys of the school generally, 9350 ; a fourth 
 exhibition established, 9347 ; a fifth exhibition (1835,) and exhibitions appointed for other Royal 
 Schools, 9348, 9359. 
 
 Opinion of the Attorney-General that the Exhibitions could not be distributed to candidates from 
 the Royal Schools generally and indiscriminately, without i-egard to the particular school from 
 which they came, but that the exhibitions from the funds of each must be confined to those educated 
 at it, 9348. Erection of a primary school for the tenants of the school lands, the tenants contri- 
 buting part of the expense, 9350-9359 : extended course of instruction, (1839,) and alteration of 
 rules, so that university prizes in classics or science should be taken as qualification for scholarships 
 before confined to classics, 9351 : qualifications in history and composition for exhibitions extended, 
 (1843); improvement in these branches, 9352 : now five exhibitions or King's scholarships, £50 each 
 for five years, for Armagh Royal School, 9348, 9359 ; scholarships conferred without any religious 
 distinction, and productive of much good, 9354. 
 
 Appointment of present master. Rev. W. II. Guillemard, late Eelknv of Penibi'oke College, 
 Cambridge ; extensive alterations and improvements at his suggestion, and new regulations by the 
 Board, (1849); number of pupils considerable, though but short time after re-opening of the 
 establishment, 9350 : improvement in buildings and internal arrangements of school, and greater 
 attendance than for a long series of years, 9357. 
 
 Parliamentary Return in 1846; number of pupils from 1836 to 1845 varied from fifty-three in 
 1840 to thirty-three in 1844; free pupils, fourteen in 1837, to seven in 1844; class of boys who 
 had formerly been boarders, suns of aristocracy, then (1846) sent to England for education, 9353. — 
 Returns of numbers, income, salaries, itc, at various periods, and course of instruction, 9349, 9355, 
 9357, 9358-93G1. 
 
 Memorials relating to the management of the school and property, and free places, A-c, to Lord 
 Lieutenant (1848), from Joshua Magee, Esq., solicitor, Xewry, 9362 ; to Commissioners of Education 
 (1848), from Thomas Kieran, Armagh, 9363 ; to Lord Lieutenant (1851), from noblemen and gen- 
 tlemen, and inhabitants of Armagh and vicinity, 9368. 
 
 Mr. Magec's Memorial alleges misapplication of funds intended for education which has not been 
 afforded : instead of the school being a free school, high charges made, only one or two free pupils 
 being admitted occasionally ; converted into a school for the aristocracy ; memorialist, a native of 
 Armagh, was refused admission, and had to go to another county for education ; fruitless applica- 
 tions by other citizens of Armagh for admission for their children: application to office of Clare- 
 street Board for information, which he could not obtain ; prays for inquiry, 9362. 
 
 Memorial of Thomas Kieran ; applied to late master for admission of his son as a free scholar, and 
 was refused, the master stating he never heard of any free places at Armagh Koyal School, though 
 he has of his own choice educated boys gratuitously in particular circumstances; not convenient 
 to receive his son gratuitously, stated charge: other applications refused by the master; dispro- 
 portionately large expenditure of school for the small number of scholars ; prays that the school be 
 opened for the education of the young in the locality, and that the trusts of the charter be caiTied 
 into full effect, 9363-5. 
 
 Letter from the CommissioTiersof Education on the subject of the above memorials (1848): refers 
 to Act of 53 Geo. III., c. 107 ; surplus of funds over ordinary school expenses has been a2>plied 
 to exhibitions in Trinity College, 9366. 
 
 Further letter from Mr. Magoe (1851): amount of income of the Iloyal Schools, and insignificant 
 numlier of free scholars admitted since 1S48 ; refers again to the trusts on which the charter grants 
 were made, 9367. — Letter of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education thereon, 9367. 
 
 Memorial from noblemen, gentlemen, and other inhabitants of Armagh and vicinity (1851) : lands 
 granted foi'a schoolmaster for free education ; statute afterwards provided that i'esi<luc of funds should 
 be !i])pliel to the maintenance of free scholars and exhibitions for Trinity College ; nonfuliilnient of 
 these truits, and misaiiplicatiou of revenue : Royal School of Armagh not a free school, and charges 
 far above that of private schools, being £60 for boarders and £10 for day scholars ; of late ten free 
 scholars only received, selected by the master at his will and pleasure, unguided by rules or local 
 claims : course of education strictly classical, suiteil to higher classes only, and mercantile and 
 middle classes obliged to send their sons elsewhere ; not the intention of the charter to give a large 
 income to a master for no public equivalent, or to confine the advantages of the institution to the 
 highest and wealthiest classes of society ; pray for inquiry, 9368. 
 
 Letters in reference to the foregoing memorial : letter fron< the Commissioners of Education 
 (1852) with enclosures as a refutation of the charges, and referring to the Act of 3 Geo. IV., c. 79, 
 varying and extending the authority of the Commissioners over the revenues of the Iloyal Schools, 
 9369. Letter from the Primate, senior Commissioner and I'atron of the school, to show the " utter 
 groundlessness" of the charge of misajiplication of the n)yal bounty and of nonfuliilnient of the 
 trust, 9370 : letter (1851) from the Rev. William Jlenry Guilh-manl, master, in reference to "base- 
 less and unjustifiable charges" in the memorial, 9371. 
 
 Statements in answer to complaints in foregoing Memorial. — By the Primate: as to comi)laint of 
 the education now being strictly classical ; always so, and intended to be so; history and design of 
 the Royal Schools; prc])aration of students for Trinity College; selection of m.asters distinguished 
 at university ; list of students from Armagh ; statutory authority for exhibitions : — but education 
 not exclusively classical; as reported in 1839, a much more extensive course of education, both 
 literary and scientific was then adopted than had been formerly, and rules for exhibitions extended 
 80 that they should be given for prizes cither in classics or science, instead of classics alone : injury
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 411 
 
 Armagh, Royal School — continued. 
 
 that would result from a total change of system, and departure from original design of the school, 
 such as the memorialists seek: — As to complaint that the education is not wholly free, only a 
 limited uumber of free scholars being admitted ; no direction in the charter for free education to 
 all who may resort to the school ; some to be free may bo inferred, but conditions not specified ; 
 some to pay, apparent from the terms of the earliest instruments; Act of 1813 provides for free 
 places out of the surplus only, and at tlu; discretion of tlic Commissioners, who have provided ten 
 free places for day scholars and fi\c exhibitions; reasons for the arrangement ; number of free 
 scholars in ten years 1810-50, varying from six in 1817 to twelve in 1849 ; always free scholars 
 since tlic Commissioners had the schools : — Allegation that the ten boys are selected by the master 
 at his will and pleasure, at variance with the fact ; rules laid down for admission of free pupils 
 on appointment of the master, who has conformed to tiiem and has received a larger number 
 than the Board required of him ; high character of the master and assistant in Armagh Koyal 
 school: — Observations on the allegation as to high charges, and comparison with charges specified 
 for other schools in Dublin and elsewhere, 9370. 
 
 Statement by the master, Rev. W. II. Guillcmard, in answer to tlie Memorial ;— the Act of 1813, 
 the recognized iuterpreter of the intention of the foundation, and does not alter previously existing 
 system in regard to nature of instruction or paying pujiils : free scholars not an original and 
 integral part of system, but supplementary ; payment of assistants by master exceeds all that he 
 receives from the Board : course of instruction not exclusively classical; embraces besides classics, 
 arithmetic, mathematics, modern languages, drawing, <tc., to all alike as part of the system ; details 
 of instruction : general observations as to the character of the school ; impracticability of a system 
 of mixed classical and commercial or mercantile education in same school, 9371. 
 
 Present Inquiry : — Ileturn from the master ; notes as to the term Free Grammar School, 
 9372 :— Evidence of witnesses, 9373-9698. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Magee, 9373-5, 9G17-21, 9623. Having reduced to writing a statement he 
 wished to make, reads it, to the efl'ect of the statements in the memorials above referred to, with 
 more detail, and observations on the terms of the charter and provisions of the statute : refers to 
 Commissioners' returns of receipts and expenditure ; complains of their management of the funds 
 and non-ajiplication of them to free education according to his views of the charter and statute : 
 refers also to endowments of Trinity College, and other funds for education in Ireland unproductive 
 of good; many of the estates lost sight of: refers to endowments for schools at Clogher, Carysfort, 
 Banagher, Drogheda, Galway, Tipperary, Donegal, Enniskillen, Killyhegs, Oxmantown, &c., 
 (see under respective names), and to funds for education in Ireland generally ; table of lands, 
 quantity and valuation, belonging to Trinity College, 9373. 
 
 Evidence of Bev. W. H. Guillcmard, Master of Armagh Royal School : — Numbers of pupils, 
 9378-80. School buildings much out of repair on his appointment in 1848 ; now in perfect 
 repair; statement of repairs, (fee, executed, cannot state by whom paid for, 9381-7. School could 
 be made to accommodate eighty as boarders ; has thirty boarders and twenty-six day scholars, of 
 whom sixteen free pupils, 937S-8U, 938S-D, 9567 : numbers at various times, 9601-7. 
 
 No inspection of the school; makes a return half-yearly to Education Commissioners, 9390-1. 
 
 Course of education in the school detailed, including classics, arithmetic, algebra, geometry, 
 mathematics, French, German, history, geography, drawing, &c., 9392-5 : further evidence in 
 reference to course' of instruction, and as to its fitness to qualify for military appointments, the civil 
 service, and commercial or mercantile establishments, 9408-9419, 9448-9467. Explanations in 
 reference to certain circumstances alleged in some of the memorials already referred to, which are 
 incorrect ; there being no special instruction for commercial occupations or trade, would not recom- 
 mend a pupil intended for such pursuits to enter the school, 9446-9453, 96-3. Suitability of the 
 course of instruction to boys of diflerent ages and tastes, partly scientific, partly classical, 9454-62 : 
 particulars of the English instruction, 9462-9467. 
 
 Rates of charge for boarders and day scholars, 9589-9600, 9608. Pupils from all classes of 
 society except the highest ; pursuits in afterlife, 9396-7. 
 
 No limitation as to religious persuasion ; religious instruction every day ; at present all Protestants 
 and no Roman Catholics, 9398-9403. No objection on religious grounds to sending boys to the 
 school except in one case of the son of a Unitarian minister; had a Roman Catholic free boy, who 
 distinguished himself, now a prominent 3'oung man in Belfast; believes one of the parents of two 
 free boys now in school is a Roman Catholic ; never asks as to religion of the boys, 940C, 9404-6, 
 9490-1. Manner in which religious instruction is afforded, 9610-5. 
 
 Doubts practicability of a system of combined classical and commercial education in same school 
 and under same masters ; system in Edward VI. School at Birmingham ; Cheltenham Preparatory 
 College, and results of instruction there, 9420-9445. Difficulties of combining the two classes of 
 education further stated, 9568-88 : but has no doubt it could be managed with a large number of 
 masters ; would be matter of arrangement, 9574, 9586. 
 
 Free schools ; meaning of the terms lihera schola, ptthlica schola, 9372, 9468-9477 : different con- 
 struction in Act of Elizabeth, 9609. Rules for admission of free pujuls in Armagh School (page 474 
 in vol. i.) ; number exceeds the number he is required to admit ; has received all who applied, 
 except some whom he considered legitimately disqualified; grounds of refusal in the particular cases, 
 9478-9489 : correspondence as to refusal in case of Mr. Magee's nephew, Edward Reilly, 9617- 
 9622. No religious test for free places or scholarships ; open to all denominations ; examination 
 as to acquirements before admission, 9492-7. No difference in treatment of boarders, day scholars, 
 and free pupils ; ]>rii!cs open to all alike, and some taken by day boys and free pupils, 9498-9502. 
 Thinks the majority of college exhibitions have been taken by free pupils, 9545. Mixture of boys 
 of different ranks of life advantageous, 9505-9517. — School exhibitions, as distinguished from 
 college exhibitions, not required for a school like Armagh with free places, and day scholars able
 
 412 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Armagh, Royal School — continued. 
 
 to pay, 9ol8-9o28. Has no doubt tbe exhibitions for Trinity College have a beneficial effect on 
 the (iiiigence of the boys and the standard of school acquirements : tbe effect would be increased 
 by throuing open the exhibitions to competition of different schools, by increasing diligence and 
 emulation, but apprehends it might produce undesirable emulation amongst the masters by tendency 
 to cramming, 9535-44:. 
 
 Internal arrangements of school : school hours 9 to 12, and 2 to 5; holidays ; good play-ground ; 
 health good; washing appliances; two infirmaries in case of sickness; matron's duties, 9549-59. 
 Boohs used iu school, 95G3-6. Boys provide their own school-books and requisites, 9529-30. 
 The school has a library of reference books, 9531-4. 
 
 Evidence of William Paton, Esq., Agent to the Primate : amounts advanced by the Primate for 
 repairs and improvement of the school buildings and acconimodatiou, 9624-34. 
 
 Evidence of John Davidson, Esq., a Master Extraordinary in Cbancery, an Accountant, and 
 Assistant Secretary of Grand Jury ; as to situation of old schoolhouse, 9G35-8. 
 
 Evidence of George Miller, Esq., Agent to the Armagh Royal School estates, 9G64-9G98 : — a 
 school on the estate for the benefit of the sons of the tenantry, at Mullaghmore ; occasionally visits it; 
 the clcrtryman of the parish, Rev. Mr. Foster, has inspected it : about 30 pupils ; increasing in 
 attendance lately; numbers returned in 1850-2, from 128 to 140; cannot account for the discrepancy, 
 9665-9686. Rental of estate in neighbourhood of Jhillaghmore, £1,489; due on it, £143; no 
 leases, tenants at will, 9688-90. Hands in his account with the Commissioners; has balances in 
 hand always, 9692-8. 
 
 Evidence of William Kirk, E>-q., m.p. for Newry ; reads a written statement as to general state 
 of education, and provision for it in his locality, 9640-9603. Intimately connected with Armagh 
 by residence and business as a linen merchant, &c., for forty j'cars, has heard complaints as to the 
 lioyal School : tliat the right to send a boy there was useless unless he were intended for a learned 
 profession or Trinity College, as he would only learn the Trinity College course, which he thinks 
 Mr. Guillemard has" fairly admitted, 9641, 964"6-7. 
 
 As a large emjiloyer of labour, is satisfied that though Education is more general it is of lower 
 quality than twenty years ago, owing to the National system having displaced schoolmasters who 
 before taught both classics and science : increased demand for educated persona, especially in 
 languages, literature, aud science : necessity for entire remodelling of the endowed schools, which 
 were intended for the middle classes generally, and not for the higher, nor as feeders to Trinity 
 College; importance of schools for middle classes: — suggestions detailed, 9642, 9648-9661; (see 
 further, under Kirk.) 
 
 Ashe, Rev. William Broiunlow, Curate of Cloghor, Co. Tyrone: Letter from, with particulars as to 
 Clo'^hcr School endowments, 11649-53 ; more land former'y attached to school thau at present : 
 conveyance of land by Ecclesiastical Commissioners in 1853 to J. A. Saddler of Cloghcr, 1 1649-50 ; 
 and taliular statement of lands granted to Clogher School by Chas. I., 11651. Necessity for 
 inquiry, 11653. 
 
 Letter from M. M. Bell, Esq., of Armagh, to Rev. Wm. Ashe, relating to Bishop Garnett's 
 Endowment, 11653. 
 See Clojher. 
 Assessments; 
 
 for Diocesan Schools ; see Diocesan Schools. 
 Tax for Education ; see Rate. 
 
 Assistants in schools ; see Masters, and under names of particular schools. 
 
 Associalion for Discountenancing Vice : Schools stated to have been endowed iu connection with : — 
 
 Castlemacadam and Newbridge Schools, Co. Wicklow, 13740, 13755-6. 
 
 Clough, Co. Monaghan, (not in oiieration,) 9302. 
 
 Kilmoro (Gortbrattan,) Co. Cavan, 7823. 
 
 Tydavnct (Co. Monaghan), 9303. 
 
 And see under Names <f respective Localities or Schools. 
 
 Form of Lease of school under the Association, Rathclarcn, page 320. 
 
 Asylums for charter-school girls when out of em])loyment, — discontinued by Incorporated Society ; 
 Ardill, 23302-3 : (see under Incorporated Society.) 
 
 Athlone; Living of, in patronage of Incorporated Society, who also pay half the salary of the curate, 
 23459-60 : (sec Incorporated Society). 
 
 KANELAOU BOVS SCHOOL, (aTIILONE,) UNDER INCOKPORATEP SOCIETY. 
 
 Information from Reports of previoiis Inquiries, kc, 7008-701i. Estates devised in 170S by 
 Earl of llanelagh for endowment of schools at Athlone and Roscommon (sec Roscommon) ; after- 
 warils vc.>tcd \>y Act of Parliament, in 176U, in Incorporatcil Society, 7008-9 : terms of act and of 
 ■<vill or deed as recited therein, 7009, 7010. Particulars of estate, 7008, 7011. 
 
 Return from Secretary of Incorporated Society of the estate, its extent, v.aluation, income, out- 
 going.s, and application ; number of boys, kc, 7()15. Free pupils maintained on foundation, and 
 educated, clolbed, and dieted, 7049 : further particulars as to numlicrand course of instruction, ifec; 
 institution altogether controlled by the Society, 7052. 
 
 Rev. James Moffalt, Rector of Athlone, raises a question as to the management of the school, 
 7007. Uis Evidence, 7016-707.'5, 7094, 7128-7133. Institution well conducted under present 
 master, 7 1 33. 
 
 Considers admission to it ought to bo strictlv confinnl to poor Protestants of Athlone, according 
 to till' deed ami Act of Parliament, 7018. A large Protestant ])opulation at Athlone; many poor 
 Protestant children refused admission, who were born on the very cfctatc, 7018, 7045: children
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 413 
 
 AtJilonc, RancJar/h Boys School, — continucil. 
 
 adinittcil, as paying boardors, from all ]>arts of Ireland, 7019-112 : tliosc on tlio foundation, from 
 seventeen parishes in ClaKvay and County of Ilosconinion, 7019: school intended as a free school 
 for the gratuitous instruction au<l maintenance of poor Protestant hoys of the town and manor of 
 Athlonc only, and complains of admission from other localities ; nothing in the deed about boarders 
 for jjaj'ment, as latel}' adopted by Incorporated ^society, 7020, 702."-(j, 70;j1 : admission of strangers 
 from other localities a noveUy; never attempted before 1838, lieforo which time boys were taken 
 from Atldone, on rccommendaticjn of respectable inhabitants, and complains that this patronage has 
 been taken away, 70.50-1, TO-O^, 7128-7133. 
 
 A rule lately adojited, making learning iusteail of j)ovorty the test for admission, by means of 
 a rigid examination, 7027. Mr. Moil'a.tt would not object to the admissions being given or confined 
 to the cleverest boys in the town amongst the poor children for whom the .school was intended; 
 migiit promote belter education in the parish schools of the locality, 7041, 70G9-70. — Two or 
 three scholarships for cleverest boys or some similar encouragement might advantageously bo 
 established, 7072. 
 
 lias known Protestant chihlren excluded ; refused as boarders, not as day scholars, 7028-32, 7040. 
 
 Pocs not object to admission of boarders, or others than Protestants, if confined to the locality, 
 7037-9. 
 
 Terms of dceil and act; original deed ought to be made public, 7009-10, 7042-5. A large 
 addition to the building, at a cost of i!3,000, which could be better employed, 7045-G : the pre- 
 scribed number of free boys not admitted as boarders, 7046-8. 
 
 Question as to maintenance of boys from Athlone, as boarders, and legal opinion of late Attorney- 
 General as to the construction of the deed and act on this question, to tin; ell'ect that Athlonc boys 
 are entitled to preference, 7034-.'), 70.53-4. Deed and opinion not produced ; but to be obtained 
 if possible, for further inquiry, 7042-3, 70.37-68, 7074. 
 
 Provision for appronticesliip, 7036. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Moffatt com]ilains also of non-payment to him of the £20 a year loft to the minister of 
 Alhlone ; £700 due to him, 7056. Terms of act, £20 a year for ever to " the minister or clergy- 
 man for the time being who shall have the caro of souls in Athlone," and the like sum " to the 
 minister of Roscommon for the time being," 7010. 
 
 Return of the Society, that there is "a paid catechist (Rev. Hugh Murray,) who rogiilarly visits 
 and inspects the premises, catechises," &c., 7052. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Peter Browne, Rector of Ardbraccan, Coiinty Galway, a member of tho 
 Incorporated Society, 7076-7095. — Prior to tho period referred to by Mr. Moftatt, 1838, school 
 very much neglected; society instituted inquiry at Athlone, and efl'ected a reformation; altered 
 mode of admission ; evils of previous mode : Mr. Mofl'att (from ill health alone) neglected his dutj- 
 and was removed from office of catechist; master also removed; results of the chan<>-e, 7077. 
 Manner in which the deed and statute have been acted upon in reference to the admissions of boys 
 from the town and manor of Athlone ; considered that the deed is totally changed by the Act, 
 which extends tho benertt lieyond the immediate neighbourhood, and was so acted upon before the 
 institution was transferred to tho Incorporated Society, 7078. Eligibility still restricted to estates 
 from which the income of the charity is derived, 7081 ; power to institute examination for admis- 
 sion, and reason for it ; had been idiotic and diseased children in the school, fitter for other insti- 
 tutions, 7082-3 ; further account of course pursued, 70S4-93. 
 
 Mr. Moflat observes that the children admitted in former times on recommendation of residents 
 were admitted with the Society's sanction or approval : while catechist, never saw an idiot or 
 diseased child in the school, 7094. Mr. Browne states he did, 7095. 
 
 Rev. James Fitzgerald, Curate of Roscommon, and Visiting Manager of Ranelagh School at 
 Roscommon : Evidence in reference to admission to Athlone Ranelagh School, 7097-7102. 
 Advantages of present mode of admission from localities beyond Athlone, reciprocal, children from 
 Athlone being eligible to Ro.scommon school, where there are .several girls from Athlonc, which 
 might be objected to under the same construction of the Act applying to both, 7097-9 : what 
 appears at first sight exclusive is not so ; present system of examination works well, as a selection 
 within the prescribed number must be made ; prefers selection by this mode to private recom- 
 mendation or patronage, which has been abused ; no complaints of abuse now, 7100-2 
 
 Mr. Joseph M'Nainara, Schoolmaster of Athlone Ranelagh School: Evidence, 7134-7222. 
 
 Numbers in school and mode of admission of boarders ; thirtv'-fii'c boarders, eighteen day scholars, 
 7138-40. 
 
 Of the boarders, about nineteen free, 7142 : mode of filling up vacancies to make the prescribed 
 number, twenty; five admitted annually, 7142-52. Mode of selection of free boarders, and 
 examination of applicants ; general numbers of candidates, 7153-4: examination public, without 
 names of boys beinj known, 7155-8. Free day scholars admitted without restriction, but parents 
 pay if able, at discretion of m.anagers, 10*. a-quartei', or £1 with Latin ; day boys from three or 
 four miles, but in Athlonc or neighbourhood, 7159-63, 7215. 
 
 Arrangements for boarding the boys; how jiaid for, 7164-8. 
 
 Afterlife of pupils, and their success, 7169-70. 
 
 All Protestants, except one or two Roman Catholic day boj's, 7171. 
 
 Inspection by catechist and Incorporated Society's inspector, 7172-4. 
 
 School has a lending library for the boys, freely used by them and with very great advantage ; 
 a library a decided advantage to a school, 717S-S9. School-books and books for library supplied 
 by tho Societv, 7175-7, 71S1-5: adequately supplied with school requisites In' the Society, 
 7190-1. 
 
 Play-ground, lavatories, and other school accommodation, 7194-7209. No industrial education, 
 7192-3. School hours, tec to three, with au interval of rest for recreation, 7193, 7312-4. 
 Vol. II. 3 H
 
 414 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Athlon^, Randagli Boys School, — continueil. 
 
 Has two assistants from Triuity College; teacLes science liimself, branches stated; does not 
 teach classics himself, 7216-22. 
 Aitanagh, or Altana, Durrow, Queen's County : see Allana. 
 Audit of Accounts : — 
 
 How conducted ; Cork, (liosis Dcane's cudowraont), Balhrd, 2173. Cork, St. Jf^icholai, DnriB' 
 combe, 2051-7. 
 
 Accounts not audited; Cork Blue Coat School, Chatterton, 1.314, 15G2 ; Neweuham, 15.31. 
 
 Irre;:ular and defective ; Oxmantown, Hone, 22508-1-1. — Correspondence with Audit Office and 
 Treasury, 2Mges 329-332. 
 
 See fuHher, under names of particular schools. 
 
 Accounts of Clare-street Commissioners of Education never audited ; not the custom of the Board ; 
 Kjle, 21467. 
 
 Accounts of Incorporated Society : defective audit ; mode and description of, 20412-23, &c., (see 
 evidence of Mr. AnUll, Mr. Abbott, Mr. Siubbs, under Incorporated Society.) 
 
 Accounts of Erasmus Smith Board; defective and unsatisfactory; course of proceeding in regard 
 to audit, 19579-81, 19592, 19608-17 : (see evidence of Mr. Barlow, Mr. Fethcrstoiie, Mr. UamUtmi, 
 Mr. Tliorpi, under Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 
 Aughahaicn, Co. Fermanagh: 
 
 Report of a previous inquiry described school as having an acre of land, 12227, 
 
 Evidence of FoUiott Barton, Esq.. proprietor of estate on which Aughabawn school stands: — no 
 endowment ; built the house, which is his own, and gave the ground, at his own pleasure; no lease; 
 allowed the use of the land ami house, that he might keep the school under his own hands, 12228-30. 
 Aughdbog, parish of, Co. Slonaghan : 
 
 Endowment for schools by Rev. Yvllliam Harris, of Killevan, Co. Monaghan (ob. 1841) ; bequest 
 for building four Katiouul .Schools, two in parish of Killevan, two in parish of Aughabog, 9304. 
 
 Aylmer, Sir Gerald G., Bart., Donadca, Co. Kildare : — Communication from, as to condition of endowed 
 school at Donadea ; grant of land by him on lease for ever in 1823 for building school, with grant 
 from Lord Lieutenant's Fund and subscriptions ; school to be under Erasmus Smith Board, they 
 paying salaries of master and mistress ; one room of the building let for Petty Sessions once a 
 fortnight, at £10 a-year, applied in repairs and fuel for school, afterwards discontinued on objec- 
 tion from Board ; successful management of school ; salaries afterwards altogether withdrawn in 
 1854, by Erasmus Smith Board on erection of a residence for the clergyman adjoining the school, 
 without pension or provision for master and mistress after 31 j'cars' service, 13795. 
 
 Ai/huer, Gerald Georife, Esq.: — Evidence of, relating to the Erasmus Smith School at Donadea, Co. 
 'Kildare, 13S56-13SC4. 
 
 Hands in lease for ever of a piece of ground given by his father, Sir Gerald Aylmer, Bart., 
 for the school, in consideration of a grant from the Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 13861-3. — Aware of 
 Mr. Leggatt, the master, being under the Erasmus Smith Board, and acting as petty sessions 
 clerk ; their inspector regularly visited the school; petty sessions held in school-room, 13864. 
 
 Bailey, Rev. Edward, curate of Killcrmogh, Queen's County; eviijence as to Killermogh School, 
 endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 6104-5112. 
 
 Dilapidated state of schoolhouse, no school in consequence ; was a flourishing school, now small 
 attendance in consequence of emigration ; if school in good repair, a tolerable number to attend ; 
 knows a number who would, sixteen, 6105-9. — Want of funds to repair it ; would require £25 
 at least, 5107-8. — Boys who would attend do not go to any school ; some children go three miles 
 oil', would bo glad to go to this school if repaired, 5111. — At present three or four children at the 
 school, which is unfit for them ; in 1854, none ; at one time, seventy girls and sixty boys attending, 
 5112. 
 
 Baker, Henry, Esq., Churchwanlen of Swords, Co. Dublin : Evidence of, in reference to Archdeacon 
 Hewitson's Endowment for Edncation at Swords, 20080-93, 20097 : has heard reports of school 
 lands being lost l)y mismanagement or neglect, 20081-2: endeavoured to obtain inlbrnuitioii, but 
 no disposition on part of rector and others to afl'ord it ; steps taken in reference to the matter, but 
 without result, 200S2 et seq. : is satisfied from the evidence now taken, (see Stvords,) that the 
 rcport.-i of misappropriation are correct, 20097. 
 
 Ballard, John, Esq., Treasurer of Moses Deane's Endowment for Schools at Cork ; Evidence of, 2172- 
 2201. 
 
 Income and expenditure ; sources of inenmc, 2173-2199. Accounts regularly audited, 2173. No 
 lands or rents ; income from stock merely ; money formerly in hands of a jirivate individual, and 
 interest not paid; jiroccedings in Chancery; funds since invested, in trustees, 21S5-7. — As to 
 leases and documentary evidence of lands or property, 2188-2201. 
 
 BalUnulcill, Queen's Co. ; school near : see Castlemarkci. 
 JUdlindrate, in parish of Clonleigh, Co. Donegal : 
 
 In report of Commissioncr.s of Public Instruction, 1835, hoys and girls school at Ballindrate, in 
 parish of Clonleigh, mentioned as if endowed by Lord Erne, 11104. 
 
 Evidence of Henry Stevvart, Esq., Agent to Lord Erne : — no endowment or trust for the school; 
 how trustees came to be spoken of ; Lord Erne voluntarily gives a salary, schoolhouse entirely his 
 property, 11103, 11105-10. 
 
 Balliniemple, Co. Cavan : 
 
 Report of Commissioners of Public Instruction, 7824. 
 
 Evidence of Lord Fitzgerald and Vcsey : no endowment; tLirty-sovcn perches of land given by 
 ■way of compliment by the Bishop of Kilmorc's father, 7825.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 415 
 
 BallinlempU, Co. Tlppcr;iry : 
 
 Comiminications rolatiiig to endowments for .'cliools at Dalliiitoinplc and Fethard (see FelhavJ) 
 by Rev. Morgan Hickcy, v.o., of Cashcl, 657-6G3. 
 
 Conimissioners of Eilueation in Ireland reported (1812) Mr. llickcy's endowments ; no scliool- 
 liousc for linllintcmple ; no .sclioolmastor, hut om; to Ijc appointed; arnsir of interest not paid but 
 in hands of l!ev. Mr. Armstrong, (3G1. — Parlianientary return (L'^il); invested in o per cents; 
 fi'om GO to 120 children, 6G1. 
 
 Kov. W. 11. Sandy.s, Rector of K-iUinteinplo : — gives tjie will of .Mr. Ilickey, who hequeathcd XlOO 
 to be put to intei'est for an English school, in j)arish of Ballinteuiple, for ever, G.38. Ko school or 
 echoolnia.iter under such endowment for last twenty-four years, GGl. Prc^'iously paid for some 
 years till IJoard of Charitable Bequests (or Board of tilducation I see below, and Fdhard^ compelled 
 Mr. Armstrong to deliver up the endowment, which was paid to their agent or attorney, who 
 became insolvent, and the money was lost; complains of cauduct of the Board, G57, GGl. 
 
 Letter from Mr. Mathews, Secretary of Bequest Board ; who states the Board of Charitable 
 Donations and Be([uests never got possession of the fund, GGO. 
 
 Mr. Sandys also communicates a letter of inquiry from Secretary of Charitable Bequests Board 
 as to a bequest by a person named Berry, towards a school in Ballintemple, which had heretofore 
 been paid by the Rev. Messrs. Lord and Armstrong, G59. — No further information. 
 
 Ballijadams, Queen's County: 
 
 Rev. Charles Elliott, Rector of Ballintubber, Athy : — Commuuicaticjn from, with copy of will of 
 Mrs. Bridget Carr, 5073-4 ; evidence of, 5U70-50DO. 
 
 Mrs. Carr erected a schoolhouse and laid out a plot of ground as garden for it, rent free, for 
 ever, to educate poor children in the Protestant religion, .507-1 ; made application ten or twelve 
 years ago to the landlord, Mr. Pratt, who refused to give any information, and would contest, it ; 
 Mr. Elliott declined to go into Chancery and the matter has rested so, 5078-81. Endowment was 
 in force ninny years ago, but schoolhouse then in existence was levelled by the landlord, 5082-88. 
 Thinks the present inheritor of the estate, Mrs. Booth, not averse to giving the endowment, and 
 ber agent favourable, 5086, 5089 : but no communication from the agent in reply to a letter 
 addressed to him by the Commissioners, 5075. 
 
 Ballymachrennan, Co. Down : 
 
 Infornvdionfrom. Reports of pirviom Inquiries, 9690 : revenues unascertained, attached to locality 
 of Ballymacbrepnan ; a school endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, now a National .school : 
 master has been in possession of entire endowment under that fund : — allegation that ten acres of 
 land which were attached to the school, but not secured to it, have been taken pos.session of by one 
 of the committee for himself, 9G99 ; LordDownshirereceivedgrantof £100 from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, in consideration of £200 to be raised in locality, and of an acre of land being conveyed in 
 perpetuity to trustees : account of Lord Lieutenant's Fund, and terms on which grants and leases 
 were made, 9736-7 ; (see Lord Lieutenant.) 
 
 Erid'-nee of Mr. John M'Conndl, Patron of the school: — £100 received from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, 9701 : Lord Downshirc gave an acre of land, rent free, as site for school, built in 1818, but 
 lately Is. a year charged for it : ten .acres more belonging to same farm, given to the committee at 
 '25s. an acre, to be let : were let at £3 an acre : tenant unable to pay ; committee thought of asking 
 permission to sell ; one of the trustees made application and got the land into hi.s own hands, and 
 has enjoyed the profits since, 9702 : not secured to the school, no deed, 9708-10, 9723. School- 
 bouse a good buibliiig for boys and girls, now in connection with National Board ; the acre of 
 ground oceuined by master, a small portion of it being set apart for play-ground, 971 1-20 : further 
 evidence, 972i-35. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Thomas GraJiaw, Master of the .school, 9738-4.3 : — the late master informed 
 bim the ten acres of land were given in perpetuity, for be saw the late Marquess of Downsh'ire 
 sign a paper to that effect, 9739-42. 
 
 Ballymacward, Co. Galway : 
 
 Commissioners of Education Inquiry (1825,) reported an endowment of £30 from Lord Lien- 
 tenant's Fund on condition of a subscription of like amount and a grant of a site in perpetuity, 60G7. 
 
 Evidence of John S. B.irrctt, Esq., a tenant on Erasmus Smith estates, Galway : — Schoolhouse 
 built, now used as police barrack ; school disconlinned : on estate of Lord Clancarty, to whom the 
 grant was made from Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; suliieient to accommodate thirty scholars, but dosed : 
 docs not appear whether the site was given by deed, 6067-72. 
 
 BaUnmahiU, Co. Waterford ; Bishop Foy's School (see under ^Yatcrford), 16455. 
 
 Balli/mcna, Co. Antrim : 
 
 Evidence of Rev. "William Studdert Kennedy, Superintendent of Swords Borough School, Co. 
 Dublin, as to advantage of evening schools for young persons, including adults, occupied during 
 the day, 16079-103: instances one at Ballymena, frequented by young men, employed by day, 
 ■wishing to keep up and extend the information previously acquired at day school : and attended 
 also by middle-aged and old persons, 1609G-S ; and one for females, lClOl-2. 
 
 Balhjmote, Co. Sligo : see Emlafadd. 
 
 Ballyrenan Schools, Co. Down (see Killough), 20308. 
 
 Ballyroan, Queen's Co., (Preston Endowment); Clare-street Board : 
 
 Lnformation from Reports of previous Inquiries, ifec, 4746-4763 : — Report of Commissioners- of 
 Inquiry in 1807; account of the foundation of schools at Ballyroan and Navan, Co. Meatli (sec 
 Navan), by Alderman John Preston of Dublin, and bequest to Oxmantown Hospital, or Blue Coat 
 School, Dublin (see O.vmantown), 4747-50; report "shameful abuses" in Ballyroan and Navan 
 establishments; same person master of both schools, received salary of £180 a-year for thirteen 
 years and never taught a single scholar in either; want of sufficient control over estates and 
 conduct of schools, 4749, 4750; concerns of the charity brought into Chancery in 1735 : various 
 Vol,. II. 3 H 2
 
 416 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ballyroan, Queen's Co., (Preston Endowment) — continued. 
 
 and lonar-pending proceedings in Chancery, 4750, 4753, 4759 : in 1834, liad been in Chancery 
 thirty-nine years, 4760 : decree in Chancery for apjiointmont of trustees, in 1828, thus terminating 
 suit begun in 1735, ninety-three years before, 12866 : estates then transferred (1834) to control 
 and management of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 4753, 4759-60. 
 
 Visitations and proceedings at various times to correct abuses and niisnianagenient in conduct of 
 school ; visitation in 1814 ; dismissal of master, Rev. Joseph Preston, who had not perfonnod the 
 duties of master and did not intend to reside ; resolved that a mercantile academy, under a master 
 perfectly qualified to give an extensive course of English and mercantile education, should be 
 established at Ballyroan, with a classical as.'^istant for Greek and Latin for boys desiring classical 
 education ; provision of more suitable buildings, and other fresh arrangements, 4751-2. 
 
 Proceedinjrs regarding estates of this valuable foundation ; petition to Chancery, 1817, for removal 
 of trustees and transference to Education Conmiissioners, 4753. In 1841, Commissioners caused a 
 further visitation for inquiring into charges preferred, and general management and conduct of 
 school; usher dismissed and master admonished, 4761. 
 
 In 1844, repeated memorials reported from tenants complaining of the management of the 
 estates and the state of their accounts ; proceedings thereon, 476:2. 
 
 Numbers in school at various periods, small, 4757, 4762 ; amount of income and disburse- 
 ments, 4763. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Commnnication from Rev. Thomas Nolan, p.p., Abbcvleix, calling attention 
 to the "school at Ballyroan, which appears not to be in operation as there are but few, if any, 
 children in attendance," 4762. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Lyon, Master of Ballyroan school, 4764-4877, 4904-4914. Number of 
 scholars, four, his son and three otiiers; three of them, including his son, free pupils, 4770, 4804-G. 
 
 Keeps no register, makes returns from memory and private memoranda, 4771, 4812-3. Discre- 
 pancies in different returns made for same periods, and inaccuracies in them, 4814-4856. Greatest 
 number he ever had, twenty-two boarders, about twelve or ten day scholars, the latter being 
 mostly free pupils, 4772-5. Never refused free pupils, took them whenever they came ,: rather 
 sou"-ht them, 4778, 4783. His instructions were to receive ten free day scholars, to be recom 
 mended by the patrons, or on their neglect by the rector; neither ever recommended any; Sir B. 
 Booth recommended one, 4782-5. No instruction on his appointment as to the education to be 
 •'iveu or other matters, except that he was to receive ten boys free, 4782-6. 
 
 Causes of the decline of the school : low terms on which he commenced to take boarders ; could 
 not continue at such terms; as regards day scholars, the neighbourhood not so populous now; 
 proportions of Protestants and Roman Catholics, 4776-8, 4788-4791-4869. 
 
 No inspection or visitation ; never inspected since 1838 or 1841 on his appointment, 4779, 4843. 
 
 iSchoolhouse under repair; had not been repaired since his appointment; wanted it much; 
 Clare-street Commissioners paying for the repairs, 4780-1. Inadequate accommodation for the 
 larger number of boarders he once had, 4807-11, 4670-6. 
 
 No interference with religious creed of children ; no complaint of such interference ; nothing to 
 hinder Roman Catholics from attending the school ; on the contrary has j)repared two for Maynooth ; 
 never made any distinction, or asked whether Protestants or Roman Catholics, 4792-5. 
 
 Good many respectable residents in the neighbourhood, but few children in their families, 
 4796-7. Numbers in National school, sixteen, and six in parochial school; numbers at other 
 times, 4799-4802 : no other school but at a considerable distance, 4803. 
 
 His average charge for boarders was £14 a-j'ear, very few paid £20 and some £12; came from 
 different directi(ms, some from Abbeyleix, two or three from Dublin, some from innnodiate neigh- 
 bourhood or within two and a-half miles of the school, 4857-60. 
 
 His salary £92 per annum and house rent free; assistant master £00 Irish ; so that the two 
 free pupils cost £147 (Is. 2J. per annum, 4847-52. Locality not pn]>nlous and not children to be 
 educated; no necessity for a school in the locality; would lie more useful in other neighbourhoods; 
 no one could establish a day school in this village, 4861-6. Large schools at Portarlington, 48G6. 
 Abbeyleix or Maryborough would bo better localities, 4807-8. 
 
 In further evidence, states that four masters have failed to establish a school in Abbeyleix ; 
 schools declined ; grounds on which he makes this further statement, 4904-4914. 
 
 Evidence of Lofiiis Bland, Esq., th.p. for King's County, residing and having jiroperty near 
 Ballyroan, 4878-4903, 5071-2, 5093.— A good many middle-class farmers around Ballyroan 
 School ; want of a school where tliey would feel confidence their cliildrcn would get a good educa- 
 tion ; none in the neighbourhood to interfere with pm^prrity of Ballyroan School; the National 
 and parochial schools do not su|ii>lv the wants of the district; the people have not cdnlidenco in 
 any of tlio schools ; thinks the middle classes would support a well managed scho<d giving a 
 classical and commercial education, without sectarian lani|iering; success of Ball3-roan School pre- 
 vented by supposed interference with religious faith of pupils; generally considered an exclusively 
 Protestant school, 488i-488S. 
 
 As to eligibility of Ballyroan for a first-rate classical boarding S('hool : two and a-lialf miles from 
 Abbeyleix, whore there are many weallhy families: a good school near home ])referred ; 4889- 
 4891 ; Abbeyleix ]n'eferable, and Maryliorough bitter, 4*^97-8-9 : scho(ds which have been dis- 
 continued, 4884-4902 ; endcjwnient would farilitato establishment of a school, 4890, 4903. As to 
 removal of thi; endowed school from Ballyroan, states that the Preston estate endowment, cbiso to 
 Ballyroan, probably had reference to the education of the tenants; number of farmers and families 
 on the estate ; retention of tlie endowment in neighbourliood of the estate of the donor, 5071-2. 
 
 Evidence of John J/ely Omen, Esq., Agent of School Estates under Clare-street Board; as to 
 estates in Queen's County, their rental ami management, and imjirovcments since his ajiiiointment, 
 5156-5192:— Qiiccn'.s Co. Estate, £777 rental, 5164; Kilbrickau Estate, 515C; land at Bally-
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 417 
 
 BaUyroan, Queen's Co., (Preston Endowment) — continued. 
 
 roan, .'JIGS ; Cappalout^Iilin, and othflr Estates, .')170-5189. Found on his appointment a small anil 
 unsuitable LuiMin;;, for wiiicli the Commissioners were paying a lar^e rent, used for the Ballyroan 
 School, a very had concern ; Commissioners about to huild new school ; recommended purchase of 
 another ])l:ice, with ground, the present school, upon an advantageous agreement, saving expense 
 of building, .0108-9. 
 
 No industrial or agricultural instruction on the estate; want of an agricultural school, 0172-5183^ 
 
 Evidence of Henri/ William Talbot, Esq., Proprietor and Editor of the Leinstcr Express, 5193- 
 5227 : — Means of education in the county very indifferent indeed ; great want of a classical and 
 mathematical school, suited for young men for ordinary jiuisuits of life; no means at present of 
 preparing for ordinary ])rofessions, mercantile life, or jiublii' offices ; want of such a school, a com- 
 mercial school with classics and modern languages, in .Maryborough ; obligi'd to take his family to 
 Dublin for education ; a public sduud at Maryborouj/h would be well sup]<ortcd ; suHicient of 
 respectable population, especially of middle classes, 51!>G-5l'04, 5207-9. 
 
 Ballyroan .Si'hool in too isolated a locality, not as eflicient for its object as if placed at Maryborougli, 
 would be improved and beneliled if removed thither, 5205-6. 
 
 No want of schools for lower classes; but great want of schools for middle and upper classes, 
 who object to send their children to the former ; the lower classes have better nu ans of education, 
 5210-1. 
 
 Advantages of an endowment in aid, in preference to a school dependent on private cnferprize 
 alone, 5212-5222. (Jould n.it be provided for from local funds; would not tax the inhabitants of 
 the locality, 5223-4. 
 
 KILBRICKEV SCHOOL : TIIESTOX ESTATE. 
 
 Unsatisfactory and depressed state of Kilhricken Fchool (Queen's Co.), for tenantry of Preston 
 estate, in connection with Ballyroan and Navan Sciiools, '1915 et sfq. : see Kilbrickeii. 
 
 Ballyrohin and Killead, Co. Antrim : 
 
 Information in li'-porls of previous Inquiries : — Commissioners of Public Instructicjn report 
 (1835,) a school in parish of Killead, with a le^ac}'', &c. ; Commissioners of Education Inquiry 
 report (1825,) Bally robin School, Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 10300. 
 
 Present Inquiri/ : — Communications from the Kev. Ilenrti li. J/ec7'Cc7?/, Prcshyteriau Minister, 
 Killead, 10300, 10301 ; Evidence of Mr. Mecredy, 10302-10319. 
 
 Three Endowments for Schools at Ballyrobin and Killead : legacy of £20 per annum for a day 
 echoo! ; grant of £15 from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, in consideration of a site being conveyed in 
 ])crpetuity, and a sum of £14 being subscribed, 10300 ; bequest of lands and money bv Counsellor 
 John Dunne, 103«)l-2 ; uncertainty as to the application of these sums, and the last named 
 bequest lost, lU300-10318. 
 
 Banagher, Eoyal Sc'iiol, King's County; (Clare-street Board.) Usually called Cuba School, 5277. 
 
 Information from B-.ports of previous Inquiries, itc, 52G3-5276. 
 
 Present Inquiri/: — Letter from llev. Mr. Egan, p.p., Cioglian, 5277; letter from Mr. Richard 
 Monck, late Assistant Master, 5278; evidence of Rev. James A. Bell, Head Master, 5279-5404: 
 Statement by Mr. Magee, Newry, (See Armagh^ 9373. 
 
 Charter and Letters Patent, temp. Car. I., annc 1C29 ; grant of lands, ifec, for use of a school- 
 master to be appointed by Lord Lieutenant, to reside and teach at Banagher; and for "mainten- 
 ance of a free school" in Banagher, and of schoolmaster or masters to be appointed by municipal 
 corporation on failure of appointment by Lord Lieutenant, 52G3-4. 
 
 Encroachments on the school lands, rejiorted by Commissioners of Inquiry, 1807 : — Lands 
 granted, origin.ally 285 acres, 52G3 ; reduced in 1788 from 285 to 204 acres; on survey in 1807, 
 found to consist of only 208 acres; 77 acres (Irish?) of the original grant having been lost by 
 encroachments of neighbouring landholders and negligence of former masters, 52G3, 52GG-7. In 
 1833, lands reported according to survey in 1817 to be 3G9 acres, all held at a rent much below its 
 value by the schoolmaster, who in 1834 was required by the Clare-street Commissioners to surrender 
 bis interest in the lands, that they might be placed under superintendence of a qualified agent, 
 5272-3: in 1854, legal proceedings against surviving surety of CumniLssioners' former receiver, 
 527G. In 1835, lands re]>ortcd at 3uG acres; in 1849, 3G9 acres; at present returned by Clare- 
 street Commissioners as 599 statute acres, 5274-0, 5298. 
 
 Income of the school, and rents for which the lands have been let, at various times ; in 1799, 
 lands let by master at yearly rent of £165 ; in 1807, rent paid for two contiguous houses used for 
 the school, £150, nearly the produce of the lands, 5265, 5268. In 1821, annual income of master 
 returned as £251, 5271. — Lamls formerly let at more than £300 a-year ; in 1833, held by 
 the master at £148 rent, much under value, 5272. — In 1834, a salary of £200 per annum 
 allocated to master on being required to surrender the lands, by Clare-street Commissioners, 5273. 
 Rental and managcnnsnt of the estate, financial condition, remuneration of master, number of pupils, 
 and condition of school at subsequent periods, 5274-G, and at time of this inquiry, 5282-3, 
 5286-7, 5298-5300, 5306, 5372, 5377 : at time of inquiry, 599 acres, good land, returned as let at 
 £175 a-year, sometimes less, about £250 at present, 5276, 5298-9. 
 
 Buildings : — no house or building for a schoolhouse in the grant of endowment, 5263, 5266 : 
 arrangements made from time to time ; difficulty in the wav of obtaining .a lease for ever or raising 
 money for building ; Cuba House, formerly a military hospital, taken ; repairs and improvements 
 required, 52 G8, 5270. Loan for repairs out of Consolidateil Fund, 5270. Reported in 1826, that the 
 schoolhouse cost from £3.000 to £5,000 : rent of land stated to have been for some time principally 
 laid out on repairs of the house, 5272. In 1834, funds of school barely sufficient to meet the rent 
 of schoolhouse .and ordinary repairs, 5273. Repairs of schoolhouse varied from £247 in 184G, to 
 £16 in 1849 ; afterwards repairs very trifling, 5275-G. — At time of present inquiry, school not in 
 good state of repair ; the master's instructions being to make no repairs except what are absolutely
 
 418 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 BanagJier, Royal School, King's Co. — continued. 
 
 necessary to exclude wind and water, the premises being beld only on a life seventy-two years of 
 age, ou fall of wliicU tlio Commissioners intend to gi >'e up the premises if rent be not reduced, 
 52^6-7. 
 
 Number of Scholars and Free Scholars. — -In 1807, reported that no school had been kept at 
 Banagher for several years, 5'26G. Numbers of scholars at various periods, .'^271-2, 5274, 5276 ; 
 in 1821, returned as thirty-seven, the annual income of the master being £251 lis. (Jd. (none 
 mentioned as free scholars), 5271 : in 182G, number of boys thirty-five; in 1831, twenty-one ; 
 sixteen being boarders, four day scholars, and one free pupil, 5271-2. Number of boys in 1843, 
 nil, 5274. 
 
 In 1833, no free scholars on the establishment, and the then master. Dr. Bell, insisted that he 
 ■was not obliged to receive any ; charged as ho thought fit, and the establishment in nowise difl'erent 
 from an ordinary private school, except in being under the Clare-street Board : from 1798 to 1807, 
 school not open, and rents received during that period by the schoolmaster, 5272. — Number of boys 
 in 1843, nil, 5274. 
 
 From 1830 to 1835, no free pupils in the school, 5274. Numbers taught gratuitously, in 1849, 
 two; in 1850, four; in 1851, four; in 1852, four; in 1853, three out of thirty-one boys, 5277. 
 
 Eei'. Mr. Egan, p.p., states the school has long ceased to be a free school for the class for whom 
 intended, and since 1817 the school has gone down, 5277. 
 
 Clare-street Board, 1853, state the school, which for several years was almost wholly unattended, 
 shows under the present master a decided increase of numbers, 527G. 
 
 Rev. James A. Bell, head master, states there are at present twenty-one boarders, six day boys, 
 two free pupils, 5282-3. 
 
 Evidence of litv. James A. Bell, head master of Banagher Koyal School, 5279-5404. — Appointed 
 1848, resident at schoolhouse : number of pupils, twenty-six boarders, six day scholars, 5282. 
 
 Free pupils, two, 5283 : master admits free pupils ; always understood that there was no right in 
 any other person to appoint or admit free pupils ; his father, who was master, held the same opinion ; 
 in admitting free pupils, is influenced by the circumstances of the persons in the neighbourhood ; 
 admits as ho sees a necessity; has no limit, 5204-5. No person has ever exercised the right to 
 nominate free pupils to the school ; has no evidence except his patent of appointment to prove that 
 no body orperson can nominate free pupils; his patent requires him to perform the duties of master, 
 but does not specify them, and no person ever specified them to him, and it does not recite any 
 condition, 5373-5 : terms of patent, 5376. A certain number of boys have been educated free 
 at difl'erent times, because the master, receiving a certain amount of public money, always felt a 
 kind of moral obligation to give some free education ; that is his own feeling : always wished to 
 give free education to applicants of a certain class, that is, of respectable parents : has thought it in 
 the discretion of the master to give or refuse free education, but his view is altered by the docu- 
 ments read at the present inquiry, 5377-8. Never received any instruction from Clare-street Board 
 as to free pupils, 5393. 
 
 Classes of persons from whom j)upils generally admitted ; the gentry, middle classes, sons of 
 clergy, and gentlemen of property, 5292 : most of the pupils from within thirty miles, 5293. 
 
 Religious persuasion of pupils: — chiefly Protestants; has bad and has R.oman Catholics; no 
 interference with religious persuasion, 5298. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — School hours and their appropriation ; includes English education, 
 classics, mathematics, arithmetic, modern languages (French and Germani, English history, 
 geography, dictation, kc, 5290-1, 5301-17. Extra charges for French, German, and drawing, 
 5306. Combiiuition of classical with English or mercantile education, 5364-70. 
 
 Subsequent career of free jmpils : — One got a high place in Trinity College ; one examined at 
 Sandhurst for a commission in the army, 5294, 5363-3. 
 
 Exhibitions: none, 5321. — Evidence as to advantage of establishing exhibitions and manner of 
 doing so, 5318-49, 5.383-91. 
 
 Inspection of school, none; but returns of certain particulars mailc by the master once or twice 
 a-ycar to Clare-street Board, 5288-9 — Evidence as to value and necessity of efficient in.'^pcction, 
 especially in conjunction with exhiljitions, 5347-62, 5395. 
 
 Had no previous experience in tuition ; had been educated in the school by his father, who was 
 master, 5319, 5220; was appointed at age of twenty-one; inspection of schools would give an 
 inexperienced master the benefit of others' experience, 5358-9. 
 
 School buildings not in good repair, the master's instructions being to make no repairs but such 
 as are absolutely necessary, the premises being held by a precarious tenure, 5286-7. 
 
 Funds at present existing in this country for education not sufficient, 5399. Thinks bis salary, 
 £100, insuflicient to enable a master to establish an efficient system of education suitable to present 
 requirements, unless Ik^ wishes to speculate with funds of his own ; wishes to see masters paid 
 eulliciintly and relieved from necessity of making the schools a mercantile speculation, and avoid 
 resort to objectionable measures to increase the number of pupils, 5354-7, 5395-8. 
 
 Mr. Richard Monch, late assistant master of Banagher Royal School ; considers a more extensive 
 and practical system of education required than that at present pursued in royal and grammar or 
 classical schools, which have been stationary and are not adci(uato to the nHiuircnicnfs of tho 
 jircsont time ; too much time given to classics alone ; should embrace nu)re ]iracti(al instruction 
 and modern literature, arts, and sciencs ; library, instruments, lectures, experiments, 5278. 
 
 Necessity for supervision, such as visitation iit least twice a-year ; would encourage emulation : 
 chcgk on dismissal of subordinates, which should not be left in hands of head master alone; provi- 
 sion required for retiring pension for well conducted teachers after certain length of service, 5278. 
 
 Banan, Fcv, P., p.p., Louth : Letter from, as to endowed schools now closed, 12233 : (nee Steplwrntoim),
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 419 
 
 Banner, Eev. B. IL, Rector an J Vicar of Tomplcnciiy, alias Barishn, Co. Tipperary : Conmiunicatlons 
 from, relating to endowment paid annmilly to Protestant Sclioohnastcr of Banslia, up to July, 1836, 
 wLcii it was Htoppeil, G55 : (see Jiaiulia.) 
 
 Banska, (or Tcniplcneiry,) Co. Tipperary: 
 
 Letters from Ilov. B. II. Banner, I'ansha, Rector ami Vicar of Templeneiry, alias Danslia, relating 
 to endowment paid annu.iliy to Protestant sclioohnastcr of Banslia up to July, 1S3G, when it was 
 stopped, 055-G. 
 
 Endowment to parish school of Bansha, £4 a-ycar, from Smith's charity ; no information, 654, (J5Z. 
 
 Endowments by Rev. J. I)(diorty for schools at Templeneir}', Tocin, and Doon, Co. Tipperary : 
 £100 at £4 per cent, beijueathed for additional stipend to parochial schoolmaster at each of tliose 
 places : no trace of them now, 6.54-6. 
 
 Barlow, John. Eh(]., Chairman, Treasurer, and Auditor of (lovernors of Erasmus Smith Schools: Evi- 
 dence of, 195GJ-6, rj57G, 19579 et stq., :i2G94 et .vq., 2294-5 et srq., 242.5.5 et sa/. 
 
 See under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 Barrett, John Samuel, Epq., a tenant on tlio estates of Erasmus Smith, Galway ; Evidence of, 5684— 
 6717, 5915-6917, 6(108-6074. Holds 200 acres at rent of £149 a-year, and arrears equivalent to 
 a fine of £700 ; holds on usual lease of 21 years ; considers this kind of tenure injurious, as checking 
 improvements ; would himself improve more, but not on a 21 years' lease with chance of rcuewal, 
 5685-8, 5916-7, 6073-4. 
 
 CALWAT ERASMUS SMITH GRAMMAK SCHOOL. 
 
 Applications to the Erasmus Smith Board for a free admission for his son to the Galway Grammar 
 school, considering himself as a tenant entitled to it under the charter, (as to terms of Charter, sec 
 under Urasmus Smith) 5G39. Passages of the charter relied on as giving a right to free places 
 as boarders for tenants on Erasmus Smith estates, 5699-5702, 5914-5. Was refused at first 
 on grounds that the funds would not allow it, but afterwards was offered admission for the boy as 
 a day scholar, boarding with the master or other person in the town, 5690. Heard that the educa- 
 tion was so bad, that be stated he would not send the boy at all, even free, unless it were amended ; 
 sent him to another school at £40 a-year, 5G90-7 : many send their children from Galway to 
 other schools, 0074. 
 
 One ground for refusing free .admission as boarder stated to be the expense of the Erasmus Smith 
 Board in Dublin, 5090, 5703 : expense of establishmeut stated to be £1,200, but returned at £399, 
 and previously at £443 ; different amounts of receipts and disbursements stated at various times, 
 5703-6717. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barloiv, Chairman, &c., of Erasmus Smith Board, .as to Mr. Barrett's complaint, 
 32708 et seq., 22727. 
 
 ESDOWHENT FOR A SCHOOL AT BALLYMACWARD. 
 
 Schoolhouse built, now used as police barrack ; school discontinued: on estate of Lord Clancarty, 
 to whom a grant was made from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, on condition of a subscription of equal 
 amount and grant of site in perpetuity; sufficient to accommodate thirty scholars, but closed: does 
 not appear whether the site was given by deed, 6067-6072. 
 
 Barry, John; endowment bequeathed by, to Christian Brothers' Free School, Cork, 1242: (see under 
 
 Cork.) 
 Barton, FoUlott, Esq., proprietor of the estate on which Aughabawn School (Co. Fermanagh) stands, 
 
 having an acre of land : Evidence of, 12227-12230. 
 
 No endowment; lands given and house built bv, without lease, and entirely in his own hands, 
 12229-30. 
 
 Baths, public, accessible to schoolboys ; want of, 2090-1, 16624. 
 
 Belfast : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education, 10300 
 I't seq. 
 
 The Belfast Aca.lemy, 10320-10414. 
 
 The Royal Belfast Academical Institution, 1041.5-10474. 
 
 General state of Education and provision for same, 10467-10555. 
 
 THE BELFAST ACADEMY. 
 
 Information from lieports of previous Inquiries : — Report, (1826,) of Commissioners of Education 
 Inquiry ; academy in connection with Marquess of Donegal and committee of subscribers ; rates of 
 charges ; numbers of pupils of different denominations, iV:c. : — Report of Commissioners of Public 
 Instruction, (1835); source of support, pay from pupils; numbers increasing, 10323. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Statement on behalf of the Academy, its origin, history, and circumstances : — 
 founded by subscription, auno 1765, tofurnisli an extensive course of literature and philosophy, with 
 a system of schools for elementary instruction. Extensive grounds and buildings purchased and 
 vested in trustees for public uses. Patrons and trustees lax in attention to interests ot the institution ; 
 six meetings in thirtj- years, annis 1792-1822 ; intervals of six, twelve, and eight years between 
 meetings : in this period of neglect, classes for higher sciences had become dormant, part of 
 the projierty alienated, remainder burtheneil with debt, and buildings in state of ililapidation and 
 decay. Representations repeatedly pressed upon the patrons by principal and masters; in 1834, 
 :i large meeting held and new arrangements agreed upon for protection and support of the institu- 
 tion : subscriptions invited ; power of nominating pupils offered to subscribers of amounts equal 
 to payments required for pupils ; and power to suliseribers of fifty guineas or more to nominate 
 one free pupil annually for ever. Appointment of princip.als to vest in subscribers of fifty guineas 
 and principals and masters jointly. Property vested in two trustees without power of alienation, 
 and power of leasing restrained, 10320. Necessitj' for rebuilding the academy; but impracticable, 
 owing to a debt of £700 for which it was mortgaged, .and to its being held on a terminable lease. 
 Principal and master advanced money to pay off the mortgage and obtain a new lease of perpetual 
 tenure, but debt thereby doubled. " Fresh appeal for further snbsc.iptions ; £1,200 collected.
 
 420 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Belfast : — " Tlie Belfast Academy" — continued. 
 
 Legal obstacles to placing the property and arrancemcnts reirarding tlie liuildings on a satisfactory 
 footing. Higl] character given of tlic nature and sj'stcui of instruction, 10321. 
 
 Evidence of thf Rev. Reuben John Bryce, i.l.d., head master of Belfast Academy, 10.324- 
 10411. Present nymber of pupils, ninety-five, 1U325 : throe boarders ; in 18o2, there were twelve: 
 one of the chief causes of the diminution, the decaj'ed state of the building; number of boarders 
 very fluctuating, 10329-31. 
 
 Buildings in very bad state of repair, just patched up from time to time in cheapest way, in hope 
 of some eli'ectivc steps for their re-erection ; repairs at expense of the master, 10332-33. New 
 buildings for the school most required ; the present not suitable, mere repairing would not answer 
 the purj>ose, 10343 ; insufficiency of the buildings a great hindrance to cairying out his views 
 in regard to an cfiicient system of education ; and dilliculty of getting capable men, 103G3. 
 
 Four schools in the establishment ; a classical school, for Greek and Latin and usual classical 
 studies ; mathematical school, for mathematics, arithmetic, geography, book-keeping, natural 
 history, and elements of natural philosophy and chemistry; drawing class, French classes, and 
 occasionally, when required, classes for other modern languages, 10334-5. 
 
 Numbers in the respective schools, 10308-72. Selection of branches of stuily according to 
 future pursuits, 10346-7 ; comparative demand for ancient and modern languages, the latter 
 especially for commercial pursuits, 10350-4. Importance of nntural and experimental sciences, 
 including natural history, chemistry, Ac, and of mode of teaching them ; bonelicial cflects of such 
 instruction properly conducted; not attended with much expense, wid generally well received, 
 10355-G7. 
 
 Sources of support, pay from pupils ; rates of p.ayment in the respective classes ; terms depend 
 on number of classes the boy is in, [renerally from six to twelve guineas a year; pupils from all 
 ranks except the very hin:hest, who chiefly go to England, and very lowest, who are excluded by 
 the terms, 10323, 10337. Subsequent pursuits of pupils, legal, mercantile, Ac, principally the 
 learned professions; instruction intended to fit pupils for commercial life, engineering, and also for 
 the universities ; number proceeiliug to universities on leaving the school, diminished of late, 10338, 
 10340, 10344. 
 
 Combined instruction : no practical dilliculty in carrying on Instruction for commercial life, and 
 for the universities, in same establishment ; statement of arrangements for the purpose, 10345-9, 
 10391-3. 
 
 Religious profession of the pujtils, of all denominations ; uo objection to the school on religious 
 grounds has come before him, 10341-2. 
 
 Inspection or visitation of the institution, none, 10394-5. 
 
 Classical education, as to increase or diminution of: effect of Queen's Colleges uj)on the demand 
 for classical instruction ; a higher kind of instruction looked for, rather than increased demand, 
 10370-4, 10375. Scholarships have stimulated classical pursuits, 10370 ; and react upon school 
 teaching, 10377. English instruction not affected by Queen's College, because it was aUva\-s well 
 attended lo, 1037S. 
 
 Endowments, their probable effect on this and other schools, 10379 cl seq. : importance of correct 
 management of endowments ; principle on ■which he considers they should be managed in order to 
 do good ; as to free pupils and maintenance of material organization of the schools, as repairs, 
 apparatus, salaries, ic. : would have any free foundations open to competition in a given district, 
 10381-4. 
 
 Ilemuneration of master, the more dependent on pupils' fees the better; endowment should never 
 exceed half the fees ; the ratio rather than amount of endowment, of importance; example, 10385. 
 
 Prospect of promotion to hisrher educational stations, a greater inducement to able persons to 
 devote themselves to teaching as a profession, than endowments for salaries ; a great defect that 
 there is no organized system of promotion for schoolnuisters ; it would be a great iin])rovenient, 
 and accounts for the superiority of common school education in Scotland ; and of immense benefit 
 to the higher schools, 10380-9. No such system as he refers to, in Ireland; further oxplaiuition 
 of system suggested ; qualifications of school masters ; promotion should not be confined to promo- 
 tion within tiic ])riniary schools or intermediate schools, but m.astcr should be able to rise from 
 them to the highest, as"in Scotland, 1039G-10410. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William Bruce, son of the late head master of the Belfast Academy, in 
 reference to statements in a paper read at the inquiry, relating to its affairs while under his father's 
 management, 10412-3. 
 
 THE R0r.\L niJLFAST ACADEMICAL INSTITUTION. 
 
 Infonn/ilion from Reports of 'previous Inquiries, &c. — Ecport of Commissioners of Education 
 Inquiry, (1827,) containing a statement of the ]'lan, origin, and objects of the Institution ; a jdot of 
 ground, more than four acres, assigned by Jlanpiess of Donegal to trustees, in perpetuity for i\w 
 Institution, lOfly. Act of Parliament olitained in 1810 for its incorporation and regulation; its 
 objects to allord a classical and mercantile education, especially amongst tlio middle classes; 
 brandies of instruction in science, literature, natural and moral philosophy, iVc. : large amounts 
 subscribed for its establishment, £10,000 in the town and province; and subscriptions from other 
 parts of Ireland, from England, and £5,000 from India; altogether £25,0'.)0 : annual Parliamentary 
 grant of £1,500 from 1814 to 1810, discontinued. In 1825, in debt. Appeal for Government 
 and Parliamentary aid. Organization of the Institution, in collegiate anil school de]>artmentH ; 
 public annual examinations, medals. Not pcculiarl}' connected with education for I'rcsbyterian 
 ministry ; no religious distinctions ; religious education left to parents and clergymen of their 
 respective congregations: advantages of the combined system of instruction ]>ursued, 10415-8. 
 Numlier of pupils from various localities, 302, of whom 1 14 from Belfast and neighbourhood, and 
 188 from nineteen counties in Ireland, 10419. Collegiate dej)artmont discontinued since withdrawal 
 of Parliamentary grant and estaldishmont of Queen's College, 10117. Kejiort of Commissioners of 
 Public Instruction in 1835; 202 pupils, 10420.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 421 
 
 Belfast : — " The Roijal Belfast Academical Inslituttoi" — coiitiiuicd. 
 
 Present Inquiri/: — Returns by Secretary of Board of Managers, riinl liy Master; deeds, and 
 particulars of einlowments, 10420. 
 
 WilUam John Camphell Allen, Esq., Secretary of Board of Managers of tlie Institution, liand.s iu 
 a written statement, 10120, 10421 ; Evidence, 10442-104UG. 
 
 Account of origin, objects, nican.s of support, and inunagcincnt of tlio In.'^titution, 10120: ])ri- 
 niarily intended as a school for middle classes of all religious denominations, combining classical 
 and mercantile cdncation ; College department for higher branches of science and learning, usually 
 included in the undergraduate course of the universities; School department, for elementary instruc- 
 tion and branches neces.sary for mercantile pursuits ; College for I'resbyterian ministers ; Medical 
 school : — College department superseded on opening of Queen's College in 184'J, and Parliamentary 
 grant tlien withdrawn : — School dcparlnient continues in operation ; educates a largo number of 
 pupils of midille classes in a comiireheiisive course of ir.struction, at as low a rate as jiossible : well 
 calculated to be an iutcrniediato school for middle and higher classes, between the National schools 
 an<l the Queen's Colleges ; but inadequacy of means in its j)resent financial condition, 10420. 
 Number of j)upils, 194, and course of oilucation, in the six schools in the Institution, 10442-5. 
 Manner in which combined instruction in dilfercnt branches is managed, 1044G. Pu])ils formerly 
 received in the Cnllege Department, chiefly from the schools of the Institution itself, or from inter- 
 mediate schools in the country which have novv disappeared : National schools have taken pupils 
 who attended intcrmediato schools; consequent diniinutiou of classical and mathematical piijiils, 
 10447. Agrees with Mr. Kirk, m.p. for Ncwrj'', in suggestions for improvement of the condition 
 of the Institution (see Kid), 10448. 
 
 Great increase of population of Belfast, without increase in the number of classical pupils, 10447, 
 1044'J-53. Great numbers in English and mathematical departments of the Institution, which 
 are on the increase, 104.ii9-iJ2 ; reasons of increase, 104G5-G : classical department diminishing, 
 104G4. Want of facilities which formerly existed for higher education preliminary to College 
 course; diminution of private schoolmasters or ministers engaged in tuition, 10447, 10454-G. 
 
 Admission of free pupils, how regulated; only three subscribers who can send in free pupils; 
 but masters often receive free pupils from private considerations, and exclusively at their own 
 discretion, 10457-8. 
 
 GENEEAI/ STATE OF EDITCATION, AND PROVISION FOR SAME. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William Brvce ; suggests that the " Royal Belfast Academical Institution" should 
 Le made more extensively useful to the commercial classes and others, by popular courses of lectures 
 on various subjects, amongst them commercial and statistical geography; want of funds for tenant- 
 able repair, and for enlargement, 10467. 
 
 Wishes to see generally a better class of intermediate schools, and more provision for classical 
 education than exists in the provinces ; pecuniary encouragement well directed in manner specified 
 would be a great aid in attracting better qualified persons to devote themselves to the business of 
 education ; would i,'ive such aid to existing schools and found new ones ; means should be found 
 for a difterent division and ajiportionment of existing funds for more general education, without injury 
 to existing establishments, 104C7-9, 10742-3. The decrease in classical education ascriljcd to the 
 National schools taking up other education, and not providing for classical education, and to the 
 remuneration for classical education alone not aflbrding sufficient inducement to teachers and masters; 
 and the greater attention to mercantile pursuits in towns may have an influence, 104G0-71. 
 
 James Gibson, Esq., Assistant-Barrister for Queen's County, a Commissioner of National Educa- 
 tion : — Letter as to Belfast Academical Institution, and suggested connection of it and similar schools, 
 with the Queen's College, by means of exhibition.s, 10423; Evidence, 10424-41. 
 
 Collegiate department of the Institution being abandoned since ojsening of Queen's Coller;es, the 
 schools of the Institution now the only efficient br.anch of original foundation; importance oi' a hiah 
 class of schools, for education of middle classes and for fully realizing the benefits of the colleges- 
 Royal schools and others, are endowed with exhibitions to Trinity College, supplyinsra rcgidar influx 
 of students, and diminishing competition ; Queen's Colleges, more connected with schools not simi- 
 larly endowed, and under comparative disadvantage in this respect; suggested, that the Belfast 
 Acailcmical Institution, and other schools of similar character, standing in close relation to Queen's 
 Colleges, should have exhibitions attached to them such as exist between the Royal Schools and 
 Trinity College, and that this should be included in recommendations as to the riijht application of 
 trust funds, especially in regard to the Belfast Academical Institution and Belfast Queen's College, 
 10423. Nothing more highly calculated to advance education amongst the middle cla.sses, 10424. 
 The exhibitions would be more eflicieut and give greater impetus to masters, if attached to competin" 
 schools, to all of which the exhibitions to Queen's Collegeshould be open, 1U425. Further evidence 
 as to the manner of carr3'ing out the suggestions, 1042G-41. 
 
 William Dunville, Esq., Merchant, Belfast : — Want of greater facility for the acquirement of 
 modern la:iguages, not alone for purposes of travelling, but for commerce; many merchants in 
 Belfast receiving letters in French and German, etc., require foreign correspondents; and deuuuid 
 for mechanics to go to the continent; of great value to them to know something of French 
 and German, 10487 : want of evening cla-sses to give mechanics an opportunity of learning them 
 and the elements of science generally, 10487 ; opening for promotion in mills, iVc., to jiersons having 
 a knowledge of mechanics and machinery, 10501 ; notsuflicient facilities for these objects in Belfast, 
 10488-9. Desirable that evening instruction should be established and made more permanent, 
 and not dependent on the chance sujqiort of a Mechanics' Institution, 10489. Insutiicient attention 
 to modern languages in the universities, 10491-2. Evening classes for _youug females employed 
 in factories, iVc, 10494-9. Feeling as to a rate or tax for education, 10500-1. 
 
 Robert Patterson, Esq., Yice-Prosidcnt of Natural llistor}' Society, Belfast; Letter from, and 
 Evidence, as to the desirableness and importance of teaching natural history as a part of school 
 education; its beneficial influence on the young, and advantages in developing their faculties; 
 agrees with Dr. Brvce in his evidence (supra, Belfast Academy) on the subject; and would ur^^e 
 Vol. II. ' ■ 3 1 "
 
 422 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Belfast, — General State of Education and provision for same — coutinucd. 
 
 the study of natural history in such schools as the Belfast Institution and Belfast Academy; not 
 attended with much expense 105 i2-13. 
 
 Rev. James M'Cosh, ll.d., Professor of Logic and Metaphysics, Queen's College, Belfast; 
 Evidence as to want of internieiliate schools, or superior schools for middle classes, 10514—46 ; 
 extent to which local funds could be raised, 10535-42. 
 
 Bev. Robert Wilson, d.d.. Professor of Biblical Criticism and Secretary of Faculty in General 
 Assembly's College, Belfast; Evidence as to the want of intermediate schools, or superior schools 
 for the middle classes, 10547-8. 
 
 Rev. John Scott Porter, Professor of Hebrew and Biblical Criticism and Theology to Non- 
 Subscribing Presbyterians, Belfast ; Evidence as to the want of intermediate schools, or superior 
 schools for the middle classes, 10549-55 : as to the provision of funds, and an education rate, 
 10549-53. 
 
 For farther evidence taken at Belfast, see the Bishop of Down, as to General State of Education 
 and Diocesan schools ; and further, under M'Cosh, Forier, ]Vilson. 
 
 Bell, Rev. James A., head master of Royal School at Banagher, King's Co., appointed 1848, resident 
 at schoolhouse : Evidence of, 5279-5404. 
 
 Number of pupils, twenty-six boarders, six day scholars, 5282. Free pupils, two, 5283. Master 
 admits free pupils ; always understood that there was no right in any other person to appoint or 
 admit free pupils ; his father, who was master, held the same opinion ; in admitting free pupils, 
 is influenced by the circumstances of the persons in the neighbourhood ; admits as he sees a 
 necessity, has no limit, 5284-5. No person has ever exercised the right to nominate free pupils 
 to the school ; has no evidence except his patent of appointment to prove that no body or person 
 can nominate free pupils ; his patent requires him to perform the duties of master, but does not 
 specify them, and no person ever specified them to him, and it does not recite any conditions, 
 5373-5 : terms of patent, 537G. A certain number of boys have been educated free at different 
 times, because the masters, receiving a certain amount of public money, have always felt a kind of 
 moral obligation to give some free education ; that is his own feeling : always wished to give free 
 education to applicants of a certain class, that is, of respectable parents : has thought it in the 
 discretion of the master to give or refuse free education, but his view is altered by the documents 
 read at the present inquiry, 5377-8. Never received any instruction from Clare-street Board as 
 to free pupil.s, 5393. 
 
 Classes of persons from whom pupils generally admitted; the gentry, middle classes, sons of 
 clergy, and gentlemen of property, 5292 : most of the pupils from within thirty miles, 5293. 
 
 Religious persuasion of pupils : — chiefly Protestants; has had and has Roman Catholics; no 
 interference with religious education, 5295. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — School-hours and their appropriation ; includes English education, 
 classics, mathematics, arithmetic, modern languages (French and German), English history, geo- 
 graphy, dictation, &c., 5290-1, 5301-17. Extra charges for French, German, and drawing, 
 15306. — Combination of classical wiih English or mercantile education, 5364-5370. 
 
 Subsequent career of pupils : — One got a high place in Trinity College ; one examined at Sand- 
 hurst for a commission in the army, best pupil ; seven others in the army, 5294, 5362-3. 
 
 Exhibitions, none, 5321. — Evidence as to advantage of establishing exhibitions, and manner 
 of doing so, 5318-5349, 5383-5391. 
 
 Inspection of school, none; but returns of certain particulars made by the master once or twice 
 a-ye;ir to Clare-street Board, 5288-9. — Evidence as to value and necessity of efficient inspection, 
 especially in conjunction with exhibitions, 5347-5362, 5395. 
 
 Had no previous experience in tuition ; had been educated in the school by his father, who was 
 master, 5319, 5220 ; was appointed at age of 21 ; inspection of schools would give an inexperienced 
 master the benefit of others' experience, 5358-9. 
 
 School buildings not in good repair, the master's instructions being to make no repairs but such 
 as are absolutely necessary, the premises being held by a precarious tenure, 5286-7. 
 
 Funds at present existing in this country for education not sufficient, 5399. Thinks his salary, 
 £100, insiiificicnt to enable a master to establish an efficient system of education suitable to present 
 requirements, unless he wishes to speculate with funds of his own ; wishes to sec masters paid 
 sufficicntl}' and relieved from necessity of making the schools a mercantile speculation, and avoid 
 resort to objectionable measures to increase tlic number of jmpils, 5354-7, 5395-8. 
 
 Bell, Matliew M., Esq., Armagh; Letter relating to Cloghcr Endowed School, Co. Tyrone, and Bishop 
 Garnett's Endowment (see Cloaker,) 11653. 
 
 Bell, Venerable Bohcrt, Archdeacon of Waterford : — Evidence in reference to the Waterford Corpora- 
 tion Free School, 300-319. 
 
 Want of exhibitions a great disadvantage to the school, which nevertheless holds a high place, 
 300, 307. Exhibitionsagreat inducement to persons of moderate means to send boys to schools having 
 them ; knows boys sent to Royal Schools on this account, where otherwise they would have been 
 gent to schools nearer homo, 301, 304. Would be an important advantage and stimulus if public 
 appointments in army, navy, a7i(l civil .service, were given to boys answering best in public exami- 
 nation, 301-5 : possibly more advantageous than cxliibitions, 306 ; and schools not having exhibi- 
 tions would bo at less ilisadvanfagc^ as com|iarcd with those having them, 307-8. Probable 
 advantage to Waterfonl School and to master of it in increased income if it had exhibitions 
 attaciicd to it, as other schools; thinks the present emolument of the master inadequate, 307-318
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 423 
 
 Benison, James, Esq., Agent of the Cavan Royal School Estate, and of the Euuiskillen Koyal School 
 Estate, umlcr the (Jlai-e-strcet Comiaissionors of Education : — Evidence of, as to Cavan School Estate, 
 8103-8:il7, S225-Si'J2 ; as to Enniskilieu School Estate, 12045-12148. 
 
 CAVAN UOTAL SCHOOL ESTATE. 
 
 Rental of estate, £577 : difliculty of collecting the rents, on his ajipointniont in 1847 ; amount 
 received at diflincnt jicriods, allowances for failure of [lotato crop and other losses, and <leduction8 
 for rates, salaries, Ac, 8100-15. Particulars of townlands in the estate, tlieir acreage and valua- 
 tion, number of tenants, 8115, 8193-4. Does not agree that the lands are let helow their value; 
 inspected tlieni in 1847, and his valuation near what the tenants paid, 811(i-7, 8133-7: no 
 leases, 8118, 8232-3: farms not too small; no consolidation since, S119-20. Itjspection from 
 time to time, and j)ropositions made by him for now survey and valuation, and improved arrange- 
 ment of farms, &c., 8122-9, 8138-4G, 8235-7. Sub-letting of farms ; notice against sub-letting, or 
 transferring of interest and sub-division without consent of Commissioners, 8130-2. 
 
 Exj)lanation as to alleged abuses in letting two farms referred to in Mr. Moore's evidence (see 
 under Cavan,] 8130-1, 8147-8 : one let by the agent to a driver or bailifi' on the property under 
 liimself, at less th:in was oil'ered by another person ; character of person rejected, 8148, 8153-81GG ; 
 8172-G ; 8237-8241; let without public notice, 8168-8171. 
 
 Erection of a gate-house at expense of the master, after unsuccessful application to Commis- 
 sioners ; afterwards reimbursed, 8217-24. 
 
 No school on the townlands forming the estate, and no means of education or agricultural 
 instruction for the tenants, 8178-80, 8190-1 : some improving tenants on the estate, but nothing 
 to promote improvement in husbandry, 8180-92. Want of insj)ection of estates and of better 
 mode of making reductions or allowances for encouraging improvement, 81 95-821 G. 
 
 Want of draining on portions of the estate, 8225 : made suggestions for the improvement of 
 the estate, 8226-32. Average value of property in neighbourhood higher since 1847 or 1848, but 
 no re- valuation since, 8235-C. 
 
 ENNISKILLEN ROYAL SCHOOL ESTATE. 
 
 Tenants generally poor ; advantages described as being held out to them, 1204G. List of 
 premiums oftered to industrious tenants, 12046-7. Sub-division of lands forbidden, 12049. Farms 
 vary in size from two to twenty acres, 12050, 12055. Consolidation of farms to consider.able 
 extent, 12057, 12102. Extent of school estates and number of farms and tenants thereon, 12100-4: 
 
 joint tenancies, 12127-12131. Ko leases given, 12058-120G1, 12095 Largo arrears of rent, 
 
 12062-9, 12073, 12097-9, 1213.5-12145. Believes he recommended the Commissioners to 
 cancel the arrears, and place the tenants on a fresh footing; want of inspection of estate 
 and of new survey, &c., 12063-4, 12UG7-8, 12074-6, 12080-1. Land last valued in ISIg' 
 12096. Allowances to tenants, independent of the atrears, 12077-9, 12135-6. Fences not good, 
 12069: stone houses, and mud houses also, 12070; tenants have live stock, 12072. Extracts 
 from a report made by him in 1849 to the Glare-street Commissioners on the general condition of 
 the estate and its management, 12081. Had no directions or communication from the Commis- 
 sioners thereon, but took some steps in conjunction with the local Commissioner, Rev. Mr. Porter 
 12082-91. Relieves the property carefully and judiciously managed, circumstanced as it is, 
 12092-4. — Amounts expemled in drainage and encouragement for improvements, kc, durino- 
 different periods, 12107-17, 12124-6 : roads made partly at expense of county, partly of Com- 
 missioners ; afterwards presented for as county roads. 1204G, 12118-21 : not many houses built 
 12122-3. Rents reasonable, but reductions asked for, 12132 ; and abatements allowed, 12133-6. 
 
 Bequest Board ; see Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests. 
 
 Berkeley, Rev. L. E., Faughanvale, Co. Londonderry; Letter from, suggesting inquiry as to Muff 
 School, but does not appear for examination, 10593-5.— Minutes of Evidence at subsequent 
 inquiry bef jre Mr. Ferguson, Assistant Commissioner, page 307. — See Maff. 
 
 Bwij, Mr. :— Communications relating to endowments for schools at Fethard, and in parish of 
 Ballintemple, Co. Tipperary, by Mr. Berry and Rev. Morgan Hickey, 657-663 : (see BalliiUemple 
 and Fethard.) ^ 
 
 Berwick, Edward, Esq., President of Queen's College, Gal way; Evidence of, 23120-31 23135 23144 
 Incorrectness of evidence of Mr. Killeen, As.sistant Master of Erasmus Smith Grammar School 
 at Galway, as to students being admitted into College and obtaining scholarships there, without know- 
 ing Latin Grammar (see under Ga/wai/, Grammar School] : particulars of scholarships awarded, and 
 principles upon which given, 23122. 
 
 Effect of the College upon attendance at the Galway Grammar School, 23123-5. Difficulties of 
 Erasmus Smith Grammai- School at Galway, and favourable account of it at present, 23135 23144. 
 
 Number and localities of classical schools in Province of Connaught, 23126-7 Hio-h character 
 of Model National School at Galway, 23128-31. ° 
 
 Sevan, Rev. Robert T., Curate of KiUashee, Co. Longford ; Evidence of, 7762-7785. 
 
 Two schools in KiUashee, one under Erasmus Smith, and a Girls Charity School supported by 
 the incumbent, without endowment, the latter at Clondragh, 7764-6, 7768-71 ; no school now at 
 Clondragh, 7772. Another school mentioned, but not endowed, 7773. 
 
 KiUashee, Erasmus Smith School : — Usual number of pupils ; Protestants and Roman Catholics 
 7774-5, 7779 ; discrepancy in numbers returned, 7781-4; visits the school for cateehisino- the 
 children, and has examined them ; four learning Euclid, 7777-8, 7780. ° 
 
 Blacker, William, Esq., Agent ; employment of, in regard to ejectment notices on Dunsrannon Royal " 
 
 School Estate, 23604 et seq. : Letters from, as to service and costs thereof, 23605,"23G26. See 
 
 under Commissioners of Education. 
 
 Blake, Mr., Gregg Castle ; endowment by ; Annadowu and Woodpark Schools, Co. Galway : see 
 Annadown. 
 Vol. II. 3 12
 
 424 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Blakenei/, John, Esq., Secietaiy of Grand Jury, Co. of Town of Galway ; Evidence of, 6005-G039. 
 
 WESTERN ESTATES OF ERASMUS SMITU SCHOOLS. 
 
 Evidence as to leasing powers ; title of Court-house, 6005. Difficulty and expense of obtaining 
 renewal from Governors, the previous trustees having omitted to get renewals ; but was renewed : 
 afterwards applied to convert the lease into a perpetuity under L?aschold Conversion Act ; 
 legal difficulty, objection being taken that the lease was altogether bad, not having been renewed 
 by previous trustees : many tenants similarly circumstanced and desirous of being relieved from 
 liability to forfeiture, 600G. Particulars of lease ; alteration of 2.5 Geo. III., c. 55, desired, in order 
 to remove the uncertainty of tenure and give a lease in perpetuity, G007-T4. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH GRAMMAR SCHOOL, GALWAT. 
 
 Was educated in the school thirty years ago ; at that time forty boarders and forty or fifty day 
 boys ; six or seven tutors ; majority Roman Catholics ; a Roman Catholic teacher who instructed 
 the Roman Catholic boys in religion every Saturday: cannot account for the decline of the School j 
 can surmise a cause : Master not sufhciently paid ; former Master made profit and became wealthy : 
 no Roman Catholic teachers now ; an exclusively Protestant school; not formerly so, G015-23. 
 Is of opinion that the present arrangements of the Erasmus Smith Grammar School really prevent 
 Roman Catholics from sending their sons to it; grounds of his belief; if there were Roman 
 Catholic Assistant Masters, though Master a Protestant, and no interference with religious faith, 
 school well managed would be numerously attended by Roman Catholics, G030-9. Bearing of 
 the Charter and Act of Parliament in this particular, 603G-8. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION, GALWAT. 
 
 Formerly a very good classical school in the town besides Erasmus Smith School, G024 ; less 
 classical education now in Galway; want of a well -managed school, giving a good classical and 
 commercial education, in such way that Roman Catliolic parents need not apprehend interference 
 with their children's religion ; would be supported not only from the town but from more distant 
 localities, GU25-9. 
 Bland, Lofltts, Esq., M.F. for King's County, residing and having property near Ballyroan School, 
 Queen's' County : Evidence of, 4878-4003, 5071-2', 5093. 
 
 BALLYROAN SCHOOL. 
 
 Good many middle class farmers around Ballyroan school ; want of a school where they would feel 
 confidence tlieir children would get a good education ; none in the neighbourhood to interfere with 
 prosperity of Ballyroan school ; the National and Parochial schools do not supply the wants of the 
 district ; the people have not confidence in any of the schools ; thinks the middle class would 
 support a well-managed school giving a classical and commercial education, without sectarian 
 tampei'ing ; success of Ballyroan school prevented by supposed interference with religious faith of 
 pupils; generally considered an exclusively Protestant school, 4881-8. As to eligibility of 
 Ballyroan for a first-rate classical boarding school : two and a-half miles from Abbeyleix, where 
 there are many wealthy families : a good school near homo preferred, 4889-91 ; Abbeyleix 
 preferable, and Maryborough better, 4897-8-9 : schools which have been discontinued, 4884, 
 4902 ; endowment would facilitate establishment of a school, 4849, 4903. As to removal of 
 the Endowed School from Ballyroan, states that the Preston Estate endowment, close to Ballyroan, 
 probably had reference to the education of the tenants ; number of farmers and families on the 
 estate ; retention of the endowment in neighbourhood of estate of donor, 5071-2. 
 
 CASTLEMAKKET SCHOOL : DILLON's ENDOWMENT. 
 
 At Castlemarket, Queen's County, was a large and successful school, near Ballinakill ; school- 
 house there, but in ruins, 5093. 
 
 Blennerv'dle, or Annagrague, Co. Kerry ; sec Annagrague. 
 
 Bloomfidd, John C, Esq., j.p., Castlecaldwell, Co. Fermanagh : Evidence of, 12209-12218. 
 
 Wishes to make some observations as to the general state of education in his district : — In con- 
 sequence of absenteeism, only the clergy to look to the education of the poor ; National system the 
 only one in the country; no other schools ; when he came into the property, set his face against 
 the National system ; consequently, not sufficient school accommodation; the National schools, 
 miserable hovels ; masters paid very largely, £18 and upwards ; scholars crammed in these hovels 
 for hours; more likely to result in disease and everything that could possibly be bad, than proper 
 education of the poor ; 12210-1, 1221G-8. Gave ground and aid for a school about to be estab- 
 lished under the Church Education Society : house raised through energy of the curate, sent and 
 paid by Archbishop of Armagh at 105 guineas a-year ; till he came, nothing like education in the 
 country, 12212-4. Nearest endowed school, at Cloghcr, which gives no education at all, except 
 to nominees of governors, 12215. 
 
 Blue Coal Schools : 
 
 Cork : Saint Ste])hcn's Hospital or Blue Coat School, 1336 tt seq. 
 
 Downpatrick : Blue School (Boys and Girls), 983G ct seq. 
 
 Droghcda : Blue Coat School, 12430 el seq. 
 
 Dublin : Blue Coat School or King's Hospital (ee Oxmunlown), 382G, <lte. 
 
 Limerick : Blue School or Blue Coat School, 2401, 2405, 2837 el seq., 3276 el seq. 
 
 Waterford : Blue Girls .School, 5G7 el seq. 
 
 „ Bishop Foy or Blue Boys School, 1645 el seq. 
 
 Set under names of respective places. 
 Boarding Schools : — 
 
 Endowed schools in which some or all of the pupils are fed, clothed, lodged : — {fur parti- 
 culars, see under names of respective schools.) 
 
 Objections urged to boarding schools for lower classes: — Waterford, Fnj/ School, Bishop of 
 Cashel, 1G154, 17141, 17155, 17159-00, 17223; Dean Iloarc, 10409-72 ; Fisher, 17017 el s<q.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 425 
 
 Boarding Schools — con ti ii iicd. 
 
 Charge in scliool accounts as for boarders, wliuro tlic money is given to cliililren and taken 
 homo to tiieir parents; ciiildren never boarded in schoolhousc, Downpatrick Blue School, Ilarrtli, 
 9971-9. 
 
 Proposal of a lato master of lloyal School to take day scholars for gratuitous instruction instead 
 of paying boarders, rejected ; Enniskilleii, 1188G. 
 
 Mode of regulating ex]ienseg in boarding scliools or institiitions under Incorporated Society, 
 Ardill, SOaOl-G^S, ii.'5.'i;!<l: -8. As to foundation boarders, and selection by competitive exami- 
 nation, 20G00. Paying boarders, iiOfiOS ct seq. As to objection to boarding schools for humbler 
 classes, and how obviated ; Ardill, U3317-51. 
 
 Admission of boarders for payment by Incorporated Society ; Athlone, MofTatt, 7020, 7023-G, 
 7034,. — See Rev. Mr. ArdllVs evidence, under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Difficulty as regards boarders of different religious denominations in same school ; Dunqannon, 
 Ringwood, 11828-35. Ualway, Hallowell, 20181-5. Dawson, G999-7003. Percy, G992-8.— See 
 Jiellgion. 
 
 Opinion in favour of boarding schools for lower classes; Walerford, Foy School, O'Donohoe, 
 16G06. 
 
 See further under names of respective schools and witnesses. 
 
 As to admission of free boarders in Royal Schools and Erasmus Smith Schools, see under respec- 
 tive Koycd Schools, Erasmus Svilth Board, Free Places, ic. 
 
 Boards, and want of governing body ; see under Governing Bodies, 
 
 Boardwell, Queen's County : 
 
 Endowment under Lord Lieutenant's Eund ; school no longer in operation, 5113, ollG. 
 
 Boheroe, school formerly existing, near Pallasgreen, Co. Limerick (see under Pallasgreen). 
 
 Boohs used in schools, and by whom selected and provided, whether by governing bodies out of 
 endowments, or by pupils, itc. ; see under names of the respective schools. 
 
 Bad selection by Erasmus Smith Governors, under direction of Trinity College, 3854-6. Better 
 books required ; Wexi'ord, Erasmus Smith, Booth, 514. 
 
 Supply of school rei[uisites insufficient ; none by Erasmus Smith Governors to grammar 
 schools; Gahvay, Killcen, 5G48-58. Supply of books, maps, and refjuisitcs inadequate; Cork, 
 Drogheda, Ennls, Galway, WcUerford, ic. jiasslm : see under names of particular schools. 
 
 Regulations of Erasmus Smith Board as to supply of books and school requisites ; Hamilton, 
 21718-21. Barlow, 22905-9, 23010-6. 
 
 Bequests for supply of books or school requisites; Rapihoe, Fullerton, 11120-1; ilonaghan, 
 Somers, 8280, 8334-9, &c. 
 
 Provision of books for general use of school, and for lending to boys to read ; see under 
 Libraries, 
 
 Booth, Mr. James Freeman, Master of Erasmus Smith Male and Female School, Wexford ; Evidence 
 of, 454-529, 537-9. 
 
 Particulars of numbers, attendance, hours, holidays, itc, of school, salaries of teachers, &c., 455 
 et seq., 536-9. — Of fifty-four boys attending the school, two Roman Catholics, 455-G: could accom- 
 modate sixty-four or seventy, 469. Pupils free ; none rejected who do not pay, nor for religion, 467-8 : 
 admitted on recommendation only, from the Rev. Mr. Elgee, rector of parish ; but recommend- 
 ation of one of committee would do, 470-2. Small number of pupils on Saturdays, 473-5. 
 Attendance of clergyman to catechise the children, boys and girls together, 479-484, 529 : Roman 
 Catholic children go home during the time ; attend during reading of the Scriptures <lailj', 485- 
 490. School books su])plied by committee, 47G-8. Ages of admission, up to eighteen, 491-8. 
 Parents generally of respectable condition in life, 499. Pupils mostly go into shops and trades; 
 instruction directed to that object ; kind of instruction, 500-2. Those he can call to mind have 
 done well in afterlife, 504-6. Has been master four and a-half years, appointed by rector and 
 committee, 503, 507-509. Children healthy : thinks the school working well ; has no alterations to 
 suggest, 510-513 : but an advanced description of books might be supplied, 514. Approves con- 
 tinuous instruction of five hours together, 516-7: no play-ground, 518. Singing might make the 
 school more attractive, 525. 
 
 Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; see Swords. 
 
 Bourke, George Courtm y; letter from, and observations as to his absence at the inquiry respecting 
 Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork, 17641-6, 18036-7: removed his boy from school from reli- 
 gious considerations, as he could not expect the master, Dr. Hodgeus, to teach the Koman Catholic 
 religion, 17G41, 17745-8; — see Alidleton. 
 
 Bourke, Rev. John, Vicar of Kilmeaden, Co. AVaterford, Patron of Kilmeaden School : — 
 
 Letter from, respecting the sale of the property on which the school stands, under Encumbered 
 Estates Act, and consequent difficulties and litigation, 330. 
 
 Evidence of: difficulty arising out of the property having been described as held upon a tenancy 
 from year to year though held under lease, and no notice before sale having been given to him as 
 patron, or to trustees ; proceedings to enforce payment of rent defeated ; notice to quit has now 
 been served, to break the lease; hands in lease; further particulars, 331-338, 340-362.
 
 426 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Bowden, Patrklc E., Esq., Swords, Co. Dublin : bands in memorial from tbe inhabitants of Swords 
 to tbe Governors, relating to tbe Borough School of Swords, and correspondence thereon with the 
 Archbishop of Dublin, relating to suggested remcyal of the Scriptures as a class-book for the 
 Roman Catholic children, 163-49-16356. 
 
 Proportion of Roman Catholics to Protestants in Swords ; nine-tenths stated to be Roman 
 Catholics, 16il7-16423.— (See Swords) 
 Boyle, Hon. Eohert, endowment by ; see Buttevant. 
 
 Boyse, John, Esq., Solicitor to tbe Blue Coat School, Limerick (Mrs. Alicia Craven's Endowment); — 
 Evidence of, 3491-3498. Terms of will making the bequest, the only information he can give, 3493. 
 Bradley, Alexander, Esq., patron of Saintfield School, Co. Down, endowed under Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund : Evidence of, 9745-9765. 
 
 Grant of £100 from Lord Lieutenant's Fund (see Lord Lieutenant), and hundreds besides, 
 expended on the building ; a large school for benefit of children of the town, cost £500 or £600, 
 with accommodation for teacher and acre of ground, 9748, 9763. Thinks no lease of it was exe- 
 cuted ; no deed of trust, or writings, except subscription list, 9749, 9760-1-2, 9764-5. No 
 account bow the money was expended ; more costly building than was contemplated ; under 
 management of landowner, Mr. Price, and his agent, no interference with them, 9748, 9763. No 
 rent ever paid for it, 9753, 9756. Controversy as to placing it under National Board, 9751-2, 
 9758-9. 
 Brady, Francis William, Esq., one of the Governors and a member of the General Committee of the 
 Blue Coat Hospital and Free School of Chas. II. at Oxmantown, Dublin; Evidence of, 22473-507, 
 22515-8, 22554. 
 
 Amount of income and expenditure; ought to aflTord greater results and educate more than the 
 present number of boys, by better management and retrenchment of needless expenses of staff, 
 22477-88. 
 
 Unsatisfactory management of land agency and fiu.aucial accounts; property lost; arrears in 
 accounts and audit, 22497-507, 22515-6. 
 
 Domestic economy good ; but necessity of improvement in appearance and demeanour of the 
 boys; present dress unsuitable, 22517-8. 
 
 Course of instruction and manner in which it should be improved for the classes in life for whom 
 the school was intended ; would prefer introducing natural sciences and modern languages to making 
 it a classical school, 22491-6. 
 
 No limitation in Charter to Freemen's children, 22554-6. — (See Oxmantoivn.) 
 Brady, Mr. John, of Cavan ; bequests by, for Kilmore Roman Catholic Academy and for National 
 
 School, 7786 : see Kilmore. 
 Brangan, Jlr. James, resident at Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, in reference to Archdeacon 
 Hewitson's endowment for education at Swords, and to land held by witness under the vicar and 
 others; particulars of tenancies, rent, etc., 19797-859, 20021-46, 20094-G. Identity of premises 
 with those described in a map of 1797 as "part of school lauds," (see wxxi^r Swords,) 19840-1, 
 19859 : identity of other premises, held by other parties, 20024, 20039-44, 20094-6. 
 Breakfast given to the school children generally, and of all religious denominations, discontinued ; 
 see Pallasgreen. 
 
 A meal given to part of children ; see Swords. 
 
 Proposed for Governors, (o secure attendance ; see Oxmantown, 
 
 Brennan, Mr. Charles, Caherciveen, Co. Kerry; Communication from, as to endowment left by 
 General Count O'Connell for a school at Caherdaniel, in pari.sh of Kilcrohane, 2320-1. — (See Caher.) 
 
 Brown, Rev. Wtlliam, Dungarvau Glebe, Kilfane, formerly connected with Endowed School of Clon- 
 mel ; Letter from, refers to large lauded property connected with it; the late master, Dr. Bell, told 
 him a large portion of the property had been illeg.ally severed from the endowment by a previous 
 master or trustee; but for this, would be nearly £3000 a-year, 716. — (See Clonmel ) 
 
 Browne, Rev. John, ll.d., Master of Kilkenny Grammar School ; Evidence, relating to that school, 
 84-143; relating to Protestant School endowed by Mr. Jcscph Evans, 144-7. 
 
 KILKENNY GRAMMAR SCHOOL. 
 
 Nature of endowment by first Duke of Ormonde; value, £140 a^year ; but for alienation of 
 property (tithes) from which first paid, the amount would now bo greater: Parliamentary grunt of 
 £5,000 for building, 85. Misapplication of funds, 86. Between sixty and seventy pupils ; pro- 
 portion of boarders and day scholars; not so numerous as might be expected in such a city^ but 
 the Roman CJatlmlics have a college of their own, and there are several schools besides, 87-92, 
 129, 130 ; en\imeration of them, 121-3. No want of schools for classical education at Kilkenny, 
 141-3. 
 
 Buildings in good repair ; cost of repairs, and how <lofrayod, 9.3-95. 
 
 Inspection of schools ; Visitors, the Provost of Trinity College and the Bishop of the diocese, are 
 bound to inspect ; the Bi.shoj) does sometimes, tlic Provost never, 96-104, 117. No inspection by 
 Clare-street Board, but returns mailc to them, 110-120. 
 
 Is a classical or grammar school, 105 : gets a fair average of distinctions and university lumora, 
 99, 102; particulars, 131-3. Class of pupils, mostly gentlemen's son.s, and some of persons in 
 business, 107. Majority, Protestants; one Roman Catiiolic bo.ardcr ; has had two or three Roman 
 Catholic boarders from time to time, 108. No objection on religious grounds ever raa(le to pupils 
 attending : one of the masters a Roman Catholic, who has any Roman Catholic pupils entirely 
 under his care, anil attends tliem to their own clergy, 124-8. Scriptures part of school course 
 for Protestant boys, Roman Catholics having separate room during Scrijitural instruction, 126-7. 
 Previously master at Bandon school : bad Roman Catholic as well as Protestant pupils, 129, 
 130 -110. Regrets that there arc no exhibitions connected with the school, 132.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 427 
 
 Browne, Rev. John, ll.d., Kilkenny; Evidence of, — continued. 
 
 KILKENNY PROTESTANT HOIIOOL, ENDOWED DY MR. JOSEPn EVANS. 
 
 Long litigation between the trustees of tbis charity and Bank of Ireland, arising out of a 
 forgery by wiiicli a former agent drew £10,000; still pending; meanwhile, school not worked 
 efficiently, Hi. 
 
 There is a fine building ; no master, his school being thrown into parochial school ; there is an 
 infants' school and mistress keeps a female school, 145-7. 
 
 Browne, Rev. Peter, Rector of Ardbraccan, Co. Galvvaj', a member of the Incorporated Society : 
 evidence of, relating to the Ranelagh Boys School, Athlonc, 7075-7095. 
 
 Explanation in reference to statements made by Rev. Mr. Moffatt (see under Athlone), 7077. 
 
 School formerly very much neglected ; its condition described, and steps taken by the Society to 
 remedy the evils complained of and reform the management ; beneficial results of the change, 
 7077. Allegation that poor Protestant boys of town and manor of Atidonc alone are entitled to 
 the benefit of the institution ; classes of wider range deemed eligible ; construction of deed and Act 
 of Parliament ; test and condition of selection for admission, 7u78-03, 70'J5. 
 
 As to admission of free pupils, 7089-92. — (See further, under AtJdone, 'Ranelagh. Boys School.) 
 
 Broimie, Ruhevt Clapton, Esq. : Evidence of, as to Mr. WaildcU's bequest for apprenticing Ijoys of the 
 parish of Carlow ; no mention of schools in the will, which has no reference to educational training, 
 76, 77.— As to Murphy's Free School, Carlow, 79. 
 
 Browiirigg, Rev. Andrew, Rector of Wicklow : Evidence of, relating to Wicklow schools stated to have 
 been endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 13G77-9 ; relating to Wicklow Diocesan School, 
 13G81-G; relating to general state of education iu Wicklow, 13G91-13723; relating to Eaton's 
 bequest, 13783-4. 
 
 WICKLOW SCHOOLS. 
 
 The parish schools received no grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, that he is aware of, 13G73. 
 
 DIOCESAN SCnoOL. 
 
 Lands of diocesan school disposed of by Government and lost to the parish, 13681-G. 
 
 Eaton's bequest. 
 
 Bequest by Miss Catherine Eaton, left to Clergymen and Church w.ardens of Wicklow, but not 
 stated " to their successors ;" received the rents, but is not able to say whether it was for educa- 
 tion purposes, 13783-4. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION IN WICKLOW. 
 
 No classical school, great want of one in the town ; would be considerable attendance ; growing 
 population and no means of better kind of education but at heavy expense of sending children to 
 Dublin or elsewhere, 13G9I-G. Great want of a good English commercial school: would be a 
 great attendance at a good classical and commercial school, double that at a classical school alone, 
 13G96-9, 1370G-7. At present boys intended for mercautde pursuits, educated at j^rochial 
 or National school ; no means whatever of learning modern languages ; no French master resident ; 
 worse ofl" than if further from Dublin, 13700-3. Instances of the want of a school on the spot, 
 13721-3. 
 
 Suggests the restoration of the former school lands, and establishment of a good school thereon ; 
 would bo a vast benefit, especially from the increasing importance of Wicklow since comijletion of 
 railway and increase of residents : suggests a boarding and day school combined, 13708-10. 
 Boarding school need not be confined to one religion ; has been at schools where difierent religions 
 did not clash, as at a diocesan school in Wexford, &c., did not interfere with one another, 13710-14. 
 Manner in which religious instruction of different denominations was conducted, 13715—17. Bene- 
 ficial results produced, 13718-20. 
 
 Bruce, Rev. William, son of late head master of the " Belfast Academy ;" Evidence in reference to 
 statements in a paper read at the inquiry relating to tlie affairs of the Institution when under his 
 father's mauageiuent, 10412-3. 
 
 As to the " Royal Belfast Academical Institution," suggests that it should be made more exten- 
 sively useful to the commercial classes and others, by pojiular courses of lectures on various subjects, 
 and amongst them commercial and statistical geography ; want of funds for tenantable repair, and 
 enlargement, 10467. 
 
 Wishes to see, generally, a better class of intermediate schools, and more provision for classical 
 education than exists in the provinces ; pecuniary encouragement well directed in manner .specified 
 would be a great aid in attracting better qualified persons to devote themselves to the business of 
 education ; would give such aid to existing schools, and found new ones; means should be found for 
 a different division and apportionment of existing funds for more general education, without 
 injury to existing establishments, 10467-9, 10742-3. Decrease iu classical education, ascribed 
 to the National schools taking up other branches and not providing for it, and to the remuneration 
 for classical education alone not affording sutEcient inducement to teachers and masters ; and the 
 greater attention to mercantile pursuits iu towns may have an influence, 10469-71. 
 
 Bryamford, Co. Down ; (Lord Lieutenant's Fund) : 
 
 Commissioners of Education Inquiry, (1825,) reported a school for which a grant was made out of 
 the Lord Lieutenant's Fund, on condition of a corresponding amount being raised, and a site pro- 
 cured in perpetuity ; conditions of grants from that fund, 9766, 9768 ; (see Lord Lieutenant.) 
 
 Letter from the Rev. John Forbes Close, Rector of Kilkeel: — Grants by Government and Lord 
 Rodeu, but no provision entered into for giving the control of the schools into other hands than 
 his lordship's own, and no stipulation for grant of land in perpetuity, 9766. 
 
 Letter from the Earl of Rodeu : — alw.ays considered the school under his own jurisdiction ; the 
 grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund was towards building the school, and no endowment, the rest of
 
 428 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Bryansford, Co. Down (Lord Lieutenant's Fund) — continued. 
 
 the amount required beiiia; contributed by his lord.--hip, wlio also pays the solioolmistress's salary; 
 the Goverunicnt had nothing to do with management of the school, 97G7. 
 
 Evidence of William S. Hill, Esq., agent for the Earl of Roden, to same effect, 9770; much 
 more than e<iuivalent to the graut laid out by his lordship on the building, and considerable suras 
 expended annually by him in support of the school; a female school, latterly an infant school ; no 
 land ; no eudowment, 9770. 
 
 Bryce, Kev. Reuben John, ll-d., head master of the Belfast Academy; Evidence of, 10324-104n. 
 
 Present number of pupil.*, ninety-five, 10325 : three boarders ; in 1852, there were twelve : one 
 of the chief causes of the diniinution, the decayed state of the building; number of boarders very 
 fluctuating, 10329-31. Buildings in very bad state of repair, just patched up from time to time 
 in cheapest way, iu hope of some cfToctive steps for their re-erection ; repairs at expense of the 
 Master, 10332-3. 
 
 New buildings for the school, most required ; the present not suitable, mere repairing would 
 not answer the purpose, 10343: insufficiency of the buildings a great hindrance to carrying 
 out bis views in regard to an efficient system of education ; and difficulty of getting capable men, 
 10363. 
 
 Four schools in the establishment ; a classical school for Greek and Latin and usual classical 
 studies ; mathematical school, for mathematics, arithmetic, geography, book-keejiing, natural 
 history, and elements of natural philosophy and chemistry ; French classes, drawing class, and 
 occasionally, when required, classes for other modern languages, 10334-5. Comparative num- 
 bers in the respective schools, 10368-72. 
 
 Selection of branches of study according to future pursuits of pupils, 1034G-7; comparative 
 demand for ancient and modern languages, the latter especially for coMuiiercial pursuits, 10350-4. 
 Importance of natural ami experimental sciences, including natural history, chemistry, Ac, and 
 of mode of teaching them ; beneficial effects of such instruction, properly conducted ; not attended 
 •with much expense, and generally well received, 10355-10367. 
 
 Sources of support, pay from pupils ; rates of payment in the respective classes, terms depend 
 on number of classes the boy is in, generally from six to twelve guineas a-year : pupils from all 
 classes of society, except the very highest, who chiefly go to England, and very lowest, who are 
 excluded by the terms, 10323, 10337. Subsequent pursuits of pupils, legal, mercantile, Ac, prin- 
 cipally the learned professions; instruction intended to fit pupils for commercial life, engineering, 
 and also for the Universities ; number proceeding to Universities on leaving the school, diminished 
 of late, 10338-40, 10344. 
 
 No practical difficulty in carrying on instruction for commercial life and for the Universities, in 
 same establi^hmcut ; statement of arrangements for the purpose, 10346-9, 10391-3. 
 
 Eeligious profession of the pupils, of all denominations : no objection to the school on religious 
 grounds has come before him, 10341-2, 
 
 No inspection or visitation of the institution, 10394-5. 
 
 As to increase or diminution of classical education : effect of Queen's Colleges upon the demand 
 for classical instruction ; a higher kind of instruction looked for, rather than increased demand, 
 10370-4, 10375. Scholarships have stimulated classical pursuits, 10376 ; and react upon school 
 teaching, 10377. English instruction not affected by Qaeen's College, because it was always well 
 attended to, 10378. 
 
 Probable effect of endowments on this and other schools, 10379 et seq. : !m])ortance of correct 
 management of endowments ; principle on which he considers they should be managed in onler to 
 do good ; as to free pupils, and maintenance of material organization of the schools, as repairs, 
 apparatus, salaries, &c- ; would have any free foundations open to comiictition in a given district, 
 10381-4. 
 
 Remuneration of master, the more dependent on pupils' fees the better ; endowment should never 
 exceed half the fees ; the ratio rather than amount of endowment, of importance; exam]ile, 10385. 
 Prospect of promotion to higher educational stations, ,a greater inducement to able persons to devote 
 themselves to teaching as a profession than endowments for salaries ; a great defect that there is no 
 organized system of promotion for schoolmasters ; wouhl be a great inijirovemcnt, and accounts 
 for the superiority of common school education in Scotland, and of immense benefit to the higher 
 schools, 10386-10389. No such .system as he refers to, in lrelan<l ; further explanation of system 
 suggested; qualifications of schoolmasters ; i)roniotion should not be c(Uilineil to jiromotiou within 
 the ))rimary schools or intermediate schools, but master should be able to rise from them to the 
 highest, as in Scotland, 10396-10410. 
 
 Biyson, Eliza, licad mistress of Borough School of Swords, Co. Publin, wife of second ni.nster (see 
 Lmis Bnjson) : Evidence of, 15071-15248,15364-15376,15409-15431, 15446-8,15497-9. 
 
 Branches of instruction in tho school ; hours, ten to three ; their appropriation to different 
 branches, including two liours for work, 15075-84 : sometimes remains, with some of tho 
 children, in school, after liours, perhaps for two hours more, 15085-90 : sometimes in the 
 evening, in school or in lier apartments, at work, 15091-100 ; they have never been in the school- 
 room till nine o'clock, 15101. 
 
 Children do plain-work out of tho school hours, for tho mistress, and sometimes for the school, 
 15102-3; work in the school-room furnished by the Board; hours for needlework, 15104-7, 
 15109-10. Children formerly rcceiveil some iiayment for work, but .-lince 1852 none, 15108. 
 Not paid fur the work done in the evening for the mistress, who received tho profits of the work, 
 15111-14 ; no permission or authority from board to get the work dime for herself; and superin- 
 tendent not aware of it, did not ask his permission, 15115-18. 
 
 This .fvstem discontinued for the last two yoar.'i, since tho Roman Catholic children were with- 
 drawn ; since August, 1853, nut employed more than the two hours a-day, in school, 151 19-29.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 429 
 
 Bryson, Eliza, SworJa, — continued. 
 
 Could not fell amount of profit niudo jircviouKly, kept no .account; made notliiiig at all by tliem 
 lol.'iO-;!. Oot an avciago of ten liour.s' work from tlie girl.s every day, but no profit from it ; 
 received five, .six, and seven Hliillinij.s a dozen for .-jjiirta and other artieles made for ni-i;,'Iiliourin" 
 gentry an<l Dulilin tradesmen ( l.jl-'07-10), on wliieli tlio girls were employed in learning to work, huT 
 wliieli were (iiiislied by a wom.an in tlie town whom she paid, 151.31-1-51.52. If finisher hail done 
 all the work, would have had to pay her more, 1.51.5.5. Could not tell the name of the fini.-ihcr 
 1.5158 : afterwards gave Name ami Adilress as lining at Swords, 15159-Gl. Gave her 4?. out of 
 the 5s. a dozen ; but the other Is. not jirofit ; would say j.rofit was 8(/. a dozen ; on six dozen a 
 week during the year: could m.t tell whosc_. work that j.roiit arose njxjn, hut not on that of tlie 
 girl.s, who however prcjiared the work for the finisher, hut not always ; h;id been .said that when it 
 was the work of the girls, it was her Jiroiit, but .-ilic docs not know ; never found any profit conio 
 out of it, 15103-15170. 
 
 Is a (laughter of the master, Mr. Mofi'att ; her mother was in the habit of kecpin" the girl? 
 working for her, for seven years, daily, from four to eight in the evening, cannot say till ten or nine 
 does not remember that at all ; working for herself after her mother's death, 1511)7-1520 1. Any 
 benefit from the girls' work was derived by her, 15214 ; iiut gave all the jirofits to the poor girl.s, 
 15225 - 0. The girls were all paid by her at that time for their work, 15214-0 : could not give the 
 names of any girls paid by her, nor cue name ; c mid not tell how much she paid tijem, nor at 
 what rate, kept no account, 15217-15224. Examination continued, 15225 eiser^. 
 
 Further examination as to abu-ses in cmj)loying the girls to work for her ; and particulars in 
 which her evidence is contrailieted by girls employed, 15304-15370, 15409-15431, 15440--8, 
 15497-9 : — (sec evidence of other witne-;ses, under Swords.) 
 
 Bri^soii, Leiris. second master in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, husband of head mistress 
 (see Eliza Bri/sun) : Evidence of, 15584-15025, 15030-15772. 
 
 Flogging of boys in the school ; has seen a .slight whip of twine ; never saw a boy stripped or 
 with trowsers down, nor big boys, 15588-90, 15018-25. Nature of ofl'ences for which punishment 
 administered, and l>y whom or on whose authority, 15000-17. Number of boys diminished of late, 
 15594. Proportion of Protestant boys, 15595-9. 
 
 Further examination in reference to punishment of boys in the school, and particidars in which 
 Ins evidence is contradicted by boys examined and at variance with that of master, 15036-72 : 
 (sec evidence of other witnesses, \uuler Sironls). 
 
 liuchanan, Robert, Esq., Earrister-at-Law, j.p., Co. Mayo, G089, 6098-610G, 9170-0219. 
 
 Supposed endowment for a school at Knappa, Co. Jlayo, G0S9-G103 ; and at Drumlange, same 
 county and barony, 01 04-0. 
 
 Evidence as to the general state of education about Westport and the western part of the county, 
 6174-0219. Concurs with Rev. Mr. Stoncy and Dr. M-Ureal, 0175 (see M'GrfyU; Stoncy, W. B.) 
 
 Very limited means of obtaining education in that part of Mayo ; obliged to send his boys to 
 Newtownards, Co. Down, 0175. Great want of good school for classical and English education, 
 with modern languages : number of residents too limited to compensate a competent master ; not 
 enough to guarantee the requisite amount, but enough to offer something handsome ; intermediate 
 school required between the minor schools and colleges, as connecting link to the latter; national 
 seliO(ds in his part of the county, being very ]ioor .schools, and for the humblest classes only, have 
 not interfered with other schools, 0170-9. Persons of better classes would send their children to a 
 good school at home if there were one, 0170, 0187-8, G191 : some now spend more to send their 
 children to England or elsewhere, partly from absence of a good school near, and partly for other 
 reasons, 0175, 0177, 0180, G192-4, GlSG-8. Great desire for education as far as means will go ; 
 greatest demand for mercantile education, except for gentlemen who require clas.sics and science 
 preparatory for college, 6189-90, 6195. 
 
 Suggestions as to education generally: thinks a better cla.ss of teachers desirable for national 
 schools (of some of which he is a manager); allocation of trained teachers for particulir counties 
 or districts, for selection, 0177-8, 0199-0201 : dilliculty in obtaining qualified teachers in remote 
 localities, 0177-8, 0199-0201 d t^cq. : the evil rciiUy at the root, the want of adequate instruction 
 in the localities, 0205 ct s<jj. 
 
 Thinks that Government aid is requireil fur o]icning a good classical school, especially in a county 
 like Mayo ; and has no doubt a good commercial school would succeed well, ami work a great 
 change in the county, 0208-19. 
 
 yjiu/flJiny-s; amount of school accommodation in them, andhowapplied; seeundfrnamesofrespectiveschooU. 
 Repairs of schoolhouses, by whom provided for; Arnwfjh, Guillemard. 0."81-7. Balltjroan, 
 Lyon, 4780-1. Dundalk, I ncorjwraled Society, Turner. 12205-9. Ennis, King, 3828, 3857, 
 3908. Raphoe,lloyal School, &\.cc\o,\Vlid-2.l. 
 
 Repairs, Low provided for, under Erasmus Smith Board; Ilainilton, 21778-87, 21790-7. 
 Barlow, 22729-34 : — under Commissioners of Education, and under Incorporated Society, Otc. ; 
 sec Commissioners, lucorporutcd Society, and nmler respective schools. 
 
 Difficulties regarding provision of Diocesan schoolhouses ; refusal of presentments by Grand 
 Jury for building or repairs; Corl; O'Erien, 1180, 1184, 1238-41; Elphiii, Kelly, 743.5-40 ; 
 i/mmtX', 2420-7 ; Lond'-nderry, 10759,10790; Widl'jx', ISGSd. Sec undu- Diocesan scliools a.ud 
 names there referred to. 
 
 Decayed state of; want of repairs and improvements ; Lanaylicr, Roynl S'-hool, 5286-7. Belfast 
 Acadrmy, 10332-3. Carloir, Diocesan School, Scott, 2, 5-24, 62-60. Cork, Green Coat, Searson. 
 1799-801. Elphin, Diocesan School, Flynn, 7345-50 ; Ennis, Erasmus Smith, King, 3858, 3S60-2, 
 3915-6. LiraericJc, Blue School, Dean Kirwan. 3448; Mahonv, 3509. Raphoe, Royal School, 
 11204; Steele, 11229-31, 11232-3, 11237-9. Tanphmichacl, Erasmus Smith, Fctherston, 7574 ; 
 Card, 7585-8. Waterford, Foy School, O'Donohoe, 16501-2 ; Iloare, 10787-816. Waterford, 
 Corporation School, Price, 228. 
 Vol. II. 3 K
 
 430 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAKD, COMMISSION. 
 
 Buildings — continued. 
 
 Repairs and improvements required; want of funds: — Belfast AcachmliMl Institution, Bruce, 
 10467. LoHdonJ'-n-y, FoyU Colhge, 10790, 10940. P.aphoe, Fullerton, lllL'4-5, 11138-50, <tc. 
 
 State of, a cliiof cause of diminution of pupils, Belfust Acadimi/, Bryee, 10329-31. Carlow, 
 Diocesan School, Scott, 32, 30. 
 
 No school held, in consequence of dilapidated state of scboolhouse for want of funds for repairs j 
 cliililren not going to any school, Tiho would he glad to go to school if repaired, Killci-mogh, 
 Bailey, .510.5-11. 
 
 See further under partiadar schools, 2''"^siM. 
 
 Bulfen, Denis B>-eT2nan, n.v., YiceFresident of the Royal Cork Institution, Professor in Faculty of 
 Medicine in Queen's College, Cork : Evidence as to general state of education, 2092 -21G3. 
 
 Suggested in detail a system of academical educ.vtion which was set forth and recommended hy 
 Select Committee of the tlonse of Commons on Foundation Schools, 2094-.5. Suggested also a 
 statute for regulating Foundation Schools : heads of four Bills framed and recommended by Com- 
 mittee fur purposes described ; some of these objects have been carried into effect, 209G -7. But provi- 
 sion for county academies or intermediate schools, between the lowest schools and the colleges, is still 
 required, 2098. Considers that commencing with the colleges or more advanced institutions has 
 been injurious to the progress of education in Ireland, 2099. 
 
 Education in Cork is a good commercial education ; judging from students coming to enter 
 college, intermediate education very defective throughout the county, 2101. Boys of better classes 
 sent to England or elsewhere ; great want of good boarding schools in city and county of Cork, 
 2102-4. 
 
 Demand for practical education, in engineering, medicine, agriculture, and the various pursuits 
 of society, and for the public service since it is opened to competition ; great demand for tlie medical 
 service ; would meet the deficiencies by means of good elementary and intermediate schools, and 
 j)assing the students through the colleges and universities generally, 2106-14, 2119-21. Further 
 statements of the description of education required, 2119, 2127-2143. 
 
 For the intermediate system, adheres to his suggestion put forward twenty years ago before the 
 Committee of the House of Commons, 2116 : but would create some central authority with power 
 to regulate and control all funds and institutions for educational purposes in Ireland ; a strong 
 central executive required, controlling the working of each public institution and reporting to 
 Parliament, 2117-2119. 
 
 Great impetus to education from throwing open the civil service to competitive examination ; 
 would be advantageous that the examination of Irishmen should be held in Ireland ; the best boy 
 .should be best rewarded wherever educated, 2122-6, 2148-aO : would have a certain number of 
 appointments, like exhibitions, allotted to various educational institutions, 2151 ; further evidence 
 on this subject, 2151-63. 
 
 Burke, Jlr. Bichard, Clerk of Mr. Kearney, the Agent of Erasmus Smith Southern Estates ; Evidence 
 of, at Limerick, 3759-3809, 4562-4508. 
 
 Produces books ; rental and account carreut, 3760-3. Amount of rental of the Limerick estate, 
 jxrrcars thereof, amounts received and remitted to the Erasmus Smith Board, abatements to tenants, 
 allowances or remission of arrears, and other ]iarticulars, 3704-3772. Particulars as to the Tip- 
 perary estate, 3773 et seq. The agent, llr. Kearney, a tenant on the estate/ bis rent, arrear, and 
 .abatements or allowances, 3779-3787 : other tenants to whom no abatement allowed, 3788-3790. 
 No leases ; Mr. Kearney tenant from year to year, 3792-3 ; only half or quarter of an acre of his 
 land sublet to an under tenant, 3791. Arrears in particular cases, 3772, 3782, 3790, 3790, 3798- 
 3800 ; and in case of the schoolmaster under the Board, at the Abbey school of Tipperary, no 
 arroar in the book, but in a document received from previous agent, 3803-5; got no books from 
 previous agent on termination of his agency, 3805-8. Gross receipts on southern estates, Tip- 
 perary and Limerick ; reductions and net receipts, 4562-8. 
 
 Burlce, Mr. William, master of St. Peter's School, Cork, (Moses Dcanc's endowment) : Evidence of, 
 2202-2258. 
 
 General account of school arrangements ; results .satisfactory, 2200 et seq., 2257-8. 
 
 Books selectcil by the clergymen generally, 2210. Public examinations annually in Christ 
 Church, an<l half-yearly examinations in .scbool, by clergymen and others, 2214, 2219 : success of 
 pupils at annual examinations, 2215-8. Boys turn out well, and attend evening schools where 
 (icciqiations permit, 2229. No emolument from tlic pu])iis, 2222. Pupils ailmitted on note of 
 introduction from a clergyman, if found deserving, 2223. Master was at Tipperary Erasmus 
 Smith School, received university education himself, and invparcs boys for it, 2224-6, 2250 0; 
 private tuition does not encroach on school duties, 2228. Numbers at school have considerably 
 increased since his appointment, 2233-4. 
 
 His wife, schoolmistress of girls school, 2207 : generally two or three ladies attend for greater 
 part of the d.ay in girls school and teach classes, 2208-9. Industrial instruction, needlework, 
 crochet, knitting, ornamerital work, in plenty; ladies and anybody maj'^ send it; main purpose, 
 improving the children ; no person receives any thing for it, except the children, who sometimes 
 sell it ; they get the advantage, s'lmelimes 3s. or 4s. a-wcck, earned at school and at home ; work 
 at school during prescribed hours only, and not interfering with other instruction, 2234-40. But 
 a few children attend for working only, rather than bo kejit fiom sc^hool to work at home ; not 
 considered as chiblren of the scluiol, and do not take part in the other business of the school, 
 except catechising on Saturday, when tlic clergyman attends ; had been formerly children of tho 
 school and reared up from childhood, 2241-9. 
 
 Burke, Rev. William, Roman Catholic a<lniinistrator of St. John's parish. Limerick : Evidence of, as 
 to general state of cducati<in, and provision for same, in Limerick, 4080 4729. 
 
 Existing schools for adv.anced education for midille classes in Limerick ; one conducted by two 
 clcrgymcD, for classical and commercial education, with modern languages, under the best teachers.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 431 
 
 Burke, Rev. William, Limerick, — continued. 
 
 a largo scliool, fioni 00 to 100 lioys or more; sont a boy recently to London, where he jassed 
 a strict exaniination fur a govorninont ajii)ointniont : Cliri.-itian Brotliors' scliool alKo gives a capital 
 mercantile education, with groat success ; at tho .same time, docs not say the education of the city 
 is as good as it ought to he, 4G.S1, 4729 : a very considrrahlo numhcr, to his own knowledge, from 
 those schools, especially the lirst, have ohtaincd situations in large mercantile cstahliNhmeiits ; the 
 boys of the Christian brothers' school are generally of liunil;lcr classes, and go into shops and 
 fitores at small w.ages at fust, and get on : puj>ils from the other school have gone to college, 
 Carlow, Maynooth, and to Government situations ; well fitted for commercial life, 4082-3. 
 
 Education of the lower classes good, but they are taken away to labour as soon as possible ; 
 
 2,000 children in the Monks' schools ; their education does not make them unfit for manual hibour or 
 dissatisfied, hut the contrary; about fSOO in eight National schools of which he is ]iatron ; Sisters 
 of Mercy have about 1,500 more ; great desire for education amongst tiie lower orders, 4(J.S4-9l'. 
 Total numbers of boys and girls at schools, about 7,000 or 8,000 out of 45,000 or 40,000 popula- 
 tion, 4715-8. 
 
 No means of promoting boys in the schools to higher cl.asses ; want of a higher school to which 
 free pujiils showing talent could be sent, and have opportunity of further cultivation and advance- 
 ment, 4G!)3-4700. Persons of middle and upper classes have been educated in the Mcmks' and 
 National schools ; but there is .a want ; and not sufficient school accommodation for the lowest 
 classes; part occupied by persons who could pay; some advantage will be <lerived from the 
 model school, but one will bo insullicicnt : well-managed schools at moderate payment for good 
 education would be supported by middle and upper classes, and would relieve the schools for 
 poorer classes ; want of higher schools, 4701-13, 4719-23. 
 
 Beneficial effect of throwing open Government appointments to competition ; a great inip( tus 
 to education, 4724-6. 
 
 Butler, Hon. James, j.p., Queen's Co., residing near Maryborough ; Evidence as to general st.".te of 
 education in that neighbourhood. 5135-55. 
 
 Agrees with what Mr. Cas-oan and Rev. Mr. Harpur have stated, 5138 (see Cassan, Uarpur). 
 Has never met any place so devoid of means of education ; worse educated than in other countries ; 
 education not thought of from high wages leading to employment of children, and want of opportunity, 
 6138 ; surprising the class of men who cannot read and write, 5149. Thinks a good school for the 
 middle classes would be well attended ; a commercial or mercantile education more required in 
 that neighbourhood than a classical school ; not gentry enough for the latter, and they scud their 
 sons to England or abroad ; but would be desirable to combine both ; necessity of modern 
 languages, 5139-48, 5153. Maryborough the most eligible situation in the county for such a 
 school ; objection to Ballyroan, 5145, 5154-5. Other schools in the town ; the Christian 
 Brothers', and parish school, 5150-3. 
 
 Buttcvard, Co. Cork : 
 
 Letter from the Rev. J. L. Ri)binson, Biittevant : — school endowed towards close of sixteenth 
 century by Hon. Robert Buyle ; a house for master, and £20 a-year as a permanent charge on th.e 
 Buttevant estate; no school since 1820; last master, Rev. James Hamilton, incumbent, who 
 occupied the house, now in ruins, but did not discharge the duties nor receive the salary, whicii 
 was discontinued by the then owner of the estate ; uncertainty whether the owner of the estate 
 and manor of Buttevant is still liable for salary for a schoolmaster, 1149 : instrument of ai>i)oint- 
 meut, in 1783, of late master, Rev. J. Hamilton, by Dowager Countess of BarrjMuoro, guardian of 
 the earl, a minor, 1150. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. J. L. Robinson ; as to possession of the estates by Lord Barrymore and Lad3'^ 
 Lanesborough ; no school now ; nearest classical school, at Pcrmoy, twcnty-tvio miles from Butte- 
 vant, 1154-64. 
 
 Commissioners of Eilucation reported in 1812, an endowment of this school in 1098, by Lady 
 Lanesborough, with a house, half acre of gi'ound, and £20 per annum for schoolmaster, 1153. ^Vill 
 of Lady Lanesborough ; her interest in the property on which the bequest was charged, expired, 
 1151-2. 
 
 Butts, Mr. Saunicl, boot and shoe maker, scstoa of St Olave's Church, Waterford : Evidence of, in 
 reference to Bishop Foy's School, 17200-17376, 17570-17575. 
 
 Has had sons .as pupils in the school ; one there at present, 17202-4 : they have com]daiiicd of 
 the food as bad and insufhcient ; particulars of complaint, 172G5 et seq. Sought nevertheless for 
 tlie admission of a second son, for his health's preservation, and for the sake of the country air, 
 17331-2, Boys at the school better fed tlian they would have been at home, some of them, some 
 of them not, 17358. Complainant, Mrs. Penelope Couimins' c'lildreu (see Commiiis,) might have 
 been better fed at the school than they would have been at home, occasionalh', 17359-00; Mrs. 
 Penelope Comniins applied to have another boy admitted recently, although her first boy was 
 starved ; and she got the second into the school, 17361-2. Mrs. Penelope Commins had a child in 
 the orphan school, and made complaints of treatment there also. 17570-5 : — (see further under 
 Waterfonl, Foy School). 
 
 Bi/riir, James, Esq., resident in town of Wicklow, and tenant on the lands formorly belonging to the 
 Wicklow Diocesan School : — Evi<lence of, as to the sale of the lauds bj' the Government in 184S ; 
 two Irish acres sold ; eight and :i-half .acres remain unsold, and in hands of a tenant of the Govern- 
 ment, 13726-37. Great want of a good school in the place, a good English and classical school ; 
 many persons would be gl.ad of such a school, who cannot afford to send their children away to 
 school, 13738-9. — As to Miss Eaton's bequest, 137S5. — (See under WicUou:) 
 
 Byrne, Mr. James, master of St, Mary Shandon School, Cork (Moses Deanc's endowment) : Evidence 
 of, 2260-2304. 
 Vol. II. 3 K 2
 
 432 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Byrne, Mr. James, St. Mary Shaiidon School, Cork, — contimioil. 
 
 Number of boys on roll, tliirty-four ; average from twcnty-bix to thirty ; some free, some pay, 
 six pay; allowed to take payment from ten, never had ten paying, i2G2-(J. 
 
 Inspection by Ciiurc-h Education Society's Inspector ouce a year, and Incorporated Society hold 
 examination for scholar-ships in Pocoek's Institution annually, 2'2Gi ; numbers allotted to Cork, 
 and to this school, 2274-5 ; schools which compete for the scholarships, 227G 9. 
 
 Does not approve of corporal punishment; addresses himself to the reason aud proper feeling of 
 the pupils, 22yO 3. Suggests the h(jlding out of prizes for Ixiys. Ten boys allowed clothing ; 
 master may select the most diligent and attentive; an iuducemcnt to jiroper cduiluct ; better to 
 clothe twenty, 2292-G, 22'JS : increased funds required, to allow of schoolhouse being put in better 
 order, and better salary for master, 2290-1, 229S-230I. Xo plaj'-ground for boys; a large hall 
 for infant school, not used by boys or girls school, 2269. 
 
 Caher, or 
 
 Caherciveen, Co. Kerry : — 
 
 Letter from Mr. P. Jfdin O'llea, teacher of Caberiliiniel Nationiil school, parish of Kilcrohane :— 
 claims an endowment left by General Count O'Connell, wlii'di is stated to have been formerly 
 received by the Caherdaniel school, now in connection with Xalional Boanl, 2319. 
 
 Information in Ficports of previous Inquiries, 2320. 
 
 Letter from ?Ir. Charles Brenuan, Caherciveen, 2321. 
 
 Letter of James O'Connell, Esq., nephew of the General and one of the trustees :— handed the 
 amount to the Roman Catholic Bishop, towards a Catholic school in barony of Iveragh, 2322. 
 
 Letter of Rev. E. Fitzgerald, p.p., 2323. 
 
 Extract from will of the General : — bequest for charilablc purposes, as may be thought best; a 
 general trust, its application depending on the trustees, 2324-0. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Mawe, Roman Catholic Administrator of Tr.alee : — Mr. O'Connell had com- 
 plete control over the fund ; the Bishop applied it to the Convent school at Caherciveen, for the 
 eilucatiou of the poor children of the parish, which accounts for its withdrawal from the schools to 
 which it had been applied before the erection of the convent, 2327-S. 
 
 Calienhmid School, Co. Kerry : see uniler Caherciveen. 
 
 Calrnes, AleJcandcr, Esq.: Endowment by, for a mathematical ma'.ter at Monaghau, 9140 ei *«j. ; 
 (see under Monaijhan). 
 
 Cairnes, William, Esq., Treasurer of Drogheda Blue School ; Evidence of, 12719-39. 
 
 Admission generally for sons of freemen, but rule dejiarted from in cases of necessity, such as a 
 distressed Protestant orjdian, 12723-5. 
 
 Funds low ; <lirty state of the school, 12726-9 : want of funds interferes wiili cleanliness; No 
 inspection, 12730-3. 
 
 Institution formerly maintained a larger unmber of boys; would be better to maintain a smaller 
 number in a clean and proper manner, 12734-9. — (See under Drogheda.) 
 
 Callaghan, Ucv. John, Oughterard Glebe, Co. Galway, Incumbent of Kilcummiu : Letter from, as to 
 endowment for au agricultural school at Kilcomniin, Co. Mayo, G220. — See Kilcoiitmun. 
 
 Caralonyh, district of, parish of Killeavy, Co. Armagh ; Erasmus Smith School formerly at SturgaD : 
 .see iSturgan. 
 
 Camphfll, Jlr. Tlenry, Master of Valentine School at Fiaul^fort, Killglas.s, Co. Sligo : Evidence of, 
 G3G1 et, seq., G555 et sen. — Sec Kil/glass. 
 
 Camus School, Strabane, Co. Tyrone : 
 
 Information from Rei)orts of i)rcvious Inquiries, 10557. 
 
 Evidence of Sir Robert A. Ferguson, Bart., m.p., 10556. 
 
 Endowment,' a house and rent-charge of £32 a-year on ar. estate in Tipperary, regularly paid 
 formerly, but not paid of late ; school su|)ported entirely liy voluntary subscriptions ; investigation 
 into the bequest iia<l been referred to the Commissioners of Charitable Bequests, 10557. 
 
 Canavan, Mr. Edward Cllara, Master of Incorporated Society's School, Cloumel ; Evidence of, 928 
 (i seq. : — (see as to particular school, under Clonmel.) 
 
 School hour.?, ten to three ; none but a very studious boy capable of sustaining attention for five 
 liours witiiout recreation ; become jaded ; not a good sy.'-.teni, 980-3 : insullicicut nirans of recrea- 
 tion at s( hool, 984-8. 
 
 Considerable demand for superior instruction in Clonmel, 1022-1. His ])upils chielly for com- 
 mercial education; if a good commercial school were opened in Clonmel with all necessary 
 appliance.^, there would bo a groat number of pujiils, say sixty, of middle classes ; would teach the 
 physical sciences to the senior bo^'s ; n<jt taught in his own school, 970-8 ; and imiiort.ancc of 
 7UU3ic, 989-994. 
 
 Denianil for more cla-sical inslruetion liiau is all'orded at present, 1025. Thinks there would ^^c 
 forty or fifty iiujiils at a well iM;inagod cliis:-ical sc'hool, 10-(l-7 : a good classical and commercial 
 .school would have I'Jt.t pui'il^ 1028 9 : other schools would \\<>i opcr.ite to the <htrinient of suoii 
 a school, 1030-40. 
 
 Card, Rev. Kohurl, Curate of Tcm]>lcmi(h;ic 1, t\>. Longford ; Evi<len(C as to Ti'inidrmichacl ErastnuK 
 Smith School, (sec under y'ciiijitcmirhae/,) 7579 ef seq. 
 
 And ;is to I'Issex Edgeworth Endowment ; uncertainty of inform.itiou as to amount of Edgeworth 
 fund, and a.s to parties in whom vested, 7034-14.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 433 
 
 Card, Rev. RuhcH, Tcniplcmicliacl, — contiiiU'cl. 
 
 IiifiI)orti(in. — lliiH boon in li:iliit of visiting Toniploniifliacl Scliodl for four or five years, 7579-81. 
 Extent of visitati(jn anil exaniiiiation of jiupils ; lienclicial cfl'cctH of t-uiiervision by local clergy, 
 7000-15, 7633-4. Inspection liy Cliurcli Education Society and Ei-asmus Smith Board, 7G1G-S. 
 
 Prizes for good attendance and ciniduct ; none for good answering and progress, but desirable 
 7619-23. 
 
 Lending Lilirary ; none, but one in connection with Sunday Sidiool, siipiiorted by voluntary 
 mbscriplions, 76J-t-7. 
 
 Satisfactory answering on examination of boys by Commissioners, 76 Iw; and success in after- 
 life in commercial and mercantile employments, 7028-31. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. /iarhw, Ciiairman, <fec. of Erasmus Smith Board, 2?i().)') d te'/. 
 (7<(rc»>, Mrs., Patroness of Blue Girls School, Walerford ; Evidence of, .'^.S. .092 f< s«/. Objections 
 which have been nude to the dress of tiie school girls, especially when they wore oran<'o knots* 
 thinks it should be continued, though it prevents some from ai>plying for adniis-ion to the Kcliool, 
 C 2-10. (Children admitted on rec.omniendaf ion of clergy or persons of respectability, if Protestants, 
 612. Roman Catholic children excluded, 013-4. Scripture.? rcail, cateclii.^ni taught, and children 
 catechised weekly by clergy, 613, 022. Certificate of conduct, anil .sometimes clothes, given on 
 leaving school, 018-20. Success in afterlife, 026-9. Work done in the school by the girls; not 
 charged for by mistress, nor emoluments received by her, 023-4.— (Sec under Walerford ) 
 
 Carew, Robert Thomas, Esq., Watcrford ; B!u(^ Girls School; Evl.lence of, ui';S-91, GOO, 004. Charge 
 upon the Borough ('c)r|ioration in virtue of a becjuest of £900, and beipiests of several of Mason 
 family for clothing girls, natives (d' Watcrford, and teaching them to read and work, itc, 508-577. 
 Bequest of Counsellor Alcoek, for marriages jiorlions for girls of the school, or for apprenticing then), 
 577-83. Be<piest for repairs, 573. — (See under Waterford.) 
 
 Carey, James, fornieily a school-boy in Swords Borough School, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, as to 
 Scripturi! reading and religious instruction in the school, 14189-97; as to j>ractice and extent of 
 flogging in the .scliool, and for what causes, 14190, 14759-8i3. — (See under iVfO/'i/s.) 
 
 Carey, Mr. Peter, resident at Swords, Co. Dublin, bedding land beside the mill referred to in bequest 
 of Archdeacon Ilewitson for school at Swords, 19914 el seq. ; does not p.ay rent, 19919 : particulars 
 of property and of his and previous tenure by others, 19920-49. — (See under Swords) 
 
 Carlotv: — Inquiry as to schools and ciidowmeuts, and state of education, in County of; evidence 
 taken at Carlow, 1 et seq. 
 
 Diocesan School, 1-71. 
 
 Free Scliool, 75-83. 
 
 Bequest by Mrs. Dawson, 72-75. 
 
 Endowment by Mr. Henry Waddell, 72-77. 
 
 DISTRICT DIOCESAN SCnoOL, CARLOW ; FOR DIOCESES OF OSSORY AND LEinHLIN. 
 
 Evidence of the Rev. David Henry Scott, head master of Carlow Diocesan School, 1-71. 
 
 Ruinous condition of the schoolhouse and premises, and uusuitiibility for their purposes ; has 
 exerted himself during the ten years of his ajipointment to have them repaired, but without success ; 
 representations from time to time to the Clare-street Commissioners of Education, of the dilapidated 
 condition of the buildings, their insutiicieney fcr school purposes, and the consequent dissatisfaction 
 throughout the district; ineniorialize<l the Lord Lieutenant at the instance of the Bisho]>, 2, 15-24. 
 
 Provisions of 53 Geo. 3, c. 107, Gnmd .Jury Act, 7. Gr.uid Jurj' not obliged to present for the 
 rei>air and npholdini; of the sohool buildings, the scliool being a district school for united dioceses, 
 3-6, 8-14, 22-26, 55-61, 08-71. 
 
 Clare-street Boanl in their annual reports refer to the dilapidated state of the diocesan schools, 
 owing to their want of funds for repair.s, and the difficulties from the state of the law regarding 
 Grand Jur3' presentments, 02-00. 
 
 Impossible to carry on the business of the school in the school jiremiscs; carried on in a house 
 in the town taken at his own expense, but not suitable without an outlay for litting up, 2, 27-31, 35. 
 Small number of i)Ui>ils ; diminished from eighteen to fifteen since he left the diocesan schoolhouse ; 
 if the latter v,'ere in proper repair, might calculate upon a respectable school ; a strong feeling against 
 the place as it is, 32-30. 
 
 Course of instruction and after-pursuits of pupils; onK' one entered to Trinity College: other 
 schools in the town and neighl'OuiIiood, 37-54. 
 
 BEQUEST BY MRS. DAWSON. 
 
 Four guineas a year, loft b^' Jlrs. Dawson, for education in Co. Carlow, 73. Evidence of Rev. 
 Frcilerick J. Trench, Rector of Carlow ; can obtain no information respecting it ; thinks it not 
 applied to a.\\y school in the county, 75. 
 
 " CARI.OW FREE SCaoOL." 
 
 Endowed by Matthew Murphy, Esq., 78-83 : — Rev. Frederick J. Trench, Rector of Carlow, never 
 heard of any scliool endowed by Mr. Murphy, 75. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Clayton Browne, Esq.: no endowment, but house left bva gentleman free of 
 rent a"] long as nse<l for a school ; first a school, then a dispcnsarv, then occupied by .some old 
 women, now a school again, 79. Uncertainty as to identity of school and endowment, 78, 80-83. 
 
 ENDOWMENT BY MR. HENRY WADDELL. 
 
 Described in coiiimnui<ation from Rev. Frederick J. Trench, Rector of Carlow, as a large sum 
 bequeathed for a parish school in Carlow, but not applied to the object of the will, 72. 
 
 Evidence of Pxdiert Clayton Browne, Esq. : Mr. Waddell's bequest was for apprenticing boys of 
 the parish of Carlow ; no mention of school in the will, which has no reference to educational 
 training, 70, 77.
 
 4U ENDOWED SCUOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 C'rtjv, Mr.?. Bridget; oiulowiucnt by, house anil garden, for seliool at Ballyadams, Queen's Co., sec 
 
 BaUi/adams. 
 Carrickmacross Grammar Scliool, Co. Monaglian : endowment a<hnitte(l, 9299. 
 Carrick-on-Shminon, Co. Leitrim : — Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and 
 
 state of education in Co. Leitrim, GS04 et seq. 
 
 Endowment for a school at, under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 6084. Nature and amount of Lord 
 
 Lieutenant's lund, 6841. Grant for school at Carrick-on-Shanuou, and conditions of same, 6841, 
 
 6843. — See Lord Linulenant. 
 
 Letter from Rev. P. Dawson, r.i'., CS42. 
 
 Rev. W. A. Percy, Rector of Kiltoghcrt :— Letter from, 6843 ; Evidence, 6844-6S60. 
 
 School not now in operation, 6S41-2-3 ; house and premises in hands of Jlr. St. George, who 
 took possession under ejectment ; nature of lease and documents ; first under KiWare-place Society, 
 then under National Board, then as a private school; endowment, lands of £150 a-year, 6843-4. 
 Further evidence as to lease (unsigned) and documents, and proceedings thereon, 6845-60. 
 
 Evidence of Charles Cox, Esq., j.p.. Agent of Mr. St. George, 6861-6893. Objections made to 
 placing the school under National Board: believes several of the sums subscribed were returned, 
 6SG3-4, 6876. Amount from Lord Lieutenant's Fund returned or expended in building, 6863, 
 6865. Terms of agreement between the subscribers and Mr. St. George, and ejectment proceedings 
 by the latter, 6869-80. Account of salaries paid to teachers by Mr. St. George, 6881-2. School- 
 house at ])reseut unoccupied, 6892. 
 
 Evidence of John Duckworth, Esq., Mountnorris, Co. Roscommon : — Collected subscriptions for 
 the erection of the school, which ho believes were not returned, though an ofler made, 6895-6903. 
 Communications which took place on founding the school ; differences between the documents 
 grant from Lord Lieutenant's fund on an unsigned document, 6894, 6C02-7. 
 
 Carter, Mr. Benjamin, Jlaster of Erasmus Smith School, Tiulee, Co. Kerry; Evidence of, 2357 et seq. 
 
 School called parochial school, hut not so, having no aid from the parish, 2357-60 ; built by sub- 
 scription ; under the rector, not under control of Erasmus Smith Board, 2361-2. 
 
 Decrease of scholars, and causes, 2363-6. Other schools in Tralee, and means of classical instruc- 
 tion ; preference for education in Dublin and England ; has known boys educated at Tralee, as 
 good or better scholars ; instances, 2367-81. 
 
 Carysfort, Co. Wicklow ; endowment for school at, Mcujee, 9373. 
 
 Cashel, Lord Bishop of: — Evidence of Right Rev. the Bishop of Cashel, Watcrford, and Lismore, one 
 of the trustees of Bishop Foy's school, at Watcrford, 17139-228, 17233-48, 17259, 17333, 17480, 
 17504. 
 
 General account of the school, its former and jsrcscnt management, and condition, 17141, 17162-4, 
 17213-8. Successful afterlife of the boys; benefit of Scriptural education, 17142. 
 
 Difficulties of management ; want of superintendence, 17141. Want oflocal body or committee 
 of supervision, 17151, 17161-3 : ncces.sity of a body who will give atteutiou to the school; its 
 composition. 17152-4, 17200-7, 17219-22. Further suggestions as to management, discipline, 
 punishments, <tc., 17208-12. 
 
 Apprenticing : course taken, 17183-99. Apprentice fee too small to enable boys to get eligible 
 situations beyond Waterford itself, 17142-5. Payment of apprentice fee by instalments at dif- 
 ferent times useful, 17148: watchfulnes.s over conduct and treatment of apprentices after they leave 
 the school, desirable where practicable, 17149-51. 
 
 (See further as to Foy School, under Waterford.) 
 
 Stronif objection to boarding schools for bo3's cf humbler classes, as in this school ; grounds of 
 objection, 17141, 17155, 17159, 17223. Comparative expense of boys in Foy school and other 
 schools in the locality, and advantages of local superintendence in the latter, 17159-60. Would 
 convert the school to its original purpose of a day school, but not limited merely to the city of 
 Watcrford; funds would bo sufficient to educate all the Protestant poor children of the whole 
 county of Waterford, or of the diocese of Waterford and Lismore, 17141, 17155-8, 17224-5. 
 
 Value of throwing open public, naval, military, and civil appointments to competition ; iu 
 cncoura"inr.' and stimulating education, preferable to endowment of establishments for gratuitous 
 education, 17226-8. 
 
 Coimv, Matthew »S'., Esq., .t. p., Queen's County, and Chairman of Town Commissioners of Marybo- 
 roui'b • Evidence of, as to general state of education, and want of adequate provision for same iu 
 tbe'district, 5118-29. 
 
 lAmontnblc want of a school at Maryborough for better and mercantile cla.sses ; want of means 
 for a good Euglisii education, and for classical educiition for higher classes, 5120, 5123-6. Other 
 schools in the town, but no classical school nor any for the higher Inanchcs of commercial education, 
 the nearest being at Portarlington, ten miles oil' 5020-1. One formerly at Jlaryborough well 
 supported, till master's death, 5l22. 
 
 No means of instruction in modciii hi ngunges, drawing, music ; necessity of such instruction, 
 5127-9. 
 
 School of Chri.^tian Brother.s at Maryborough, a very good school for poorer classes, 5120-1, 
 5127-«. 
 Cnsllehar, Co. Mayo: — Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools aiil cndowment.s, and state of 
 education in Co. Mayo, 6075 el serj. 
 Christian Brothers^ School, 6265-7. 
 
 Chssical School. — Grnmmar school, but no trace of it ; Rev. W. B. Stoney, Rector of Castlel)ar, 
 G077. — Classical school endowed by Lord Lucan ; but endowment not in operation : — Information 
 from reports of previous inquiries ; £20 a-year for a Classical school, anno 1798, but school soon 
 discontinued ; iu same report, £18 a-year by Rev. Mr. Gordon, for a classical school, 6078.
 
 L\DEX TO EVIDENCE 435 
 
 Castklar, Co. Mayo, — continuoil. 
 
 Parochial School.— V^y. W. B. Stoiicy, Kector ;— Biillt pai-tly out of Lord Lieutonant'is Fiiml ; no 
 proof of endowiiR'tit out of tiiat fund or of iti^ conditions liavin;; been conijdicd with ; knows nothing 
 of leases or sites ; supported hy voluntary contributions, G107-8-10. 
 
 Protestant Charter School : endowment not in operation, C075-G : evidence of Kev W 13 ?toney 
 Rector of Castlebar, G077. ' '" 
 
 General State of Ediic'ition in Catthhar and Neii/hhourh-iod. — Evidonco of Hcv. ^V. B. Storiev 
 Rector: — State of oduoation very low indeed, 0113. No classical t(diools,CI 1.3: some National school's 
 6117. Children waiitin;.'su))erior or classical educat ion are sent to Bubl in ordistantjdaces, or dependent 
 on private tutors, (!11G-21, 012.3, Gl^.O. A irood numy re.^)iectablc persons desirin;^ a superior 
 education for their children, G122 : would .send thcni to a good school in tiie neighbourhood, 0126. 
 Frequent conij)laints of want of such a school, G121. As to objection of better classes to have their 
 cliildrcu mix in same school with those of the liunibler classes, if the latter do not i)ay G 127-8, 
 Objection diminished if there were free ])l;iecs o])cn to merit on comjietition, 0129. Desire of lowest 
 orders for instruction of highest order, if obtainable gratuitously, G130-.3 : but desire for education at 
 very low ebb, Gl.'55 : attendance at schools irregular; causes of irregularity, Gl.SG-40. No agri- 
 cultural instruction j no manufacture or employment other than a"riculture, 0141-8. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas M'Greal, Es(|.,m.d., Surgeon, Medical Ollicer of Islandeady Dispensary District, 
 
 as to general state of education in neighbourhood, 0152 et seq., G2y8 et seq., 02iJ0 et set/. : means 
 
 of education of upper and middle classes very dellcient, 0152. Could not support a good classical 
 school ; have been good ones, which fell to the ground, 0153, G155-7. Much wanted, means of 
 classical and English education, with French, Gl.ji : great want for middle classes, sound English 
 mercantile education, inclmling scientific education, with French, G155-9, 616G-73. Thinks Na- 
 tional schools do not interfere with classical schools, GlGl-3. 
 
 Castleconnor and Killglass, Co. Sligo ; Valentine's School at Frankfort, G322 et seq. : see KiUylass. 
 
 CaUledawson and JIagherafelt, Co. Londonderry : endowment for schools by Rev. Thomas Veeey 
 10558 et seq. Will of Rev. T. Vesey, 10558. 
 
 Evidence of the Rev. Charles King Irwin, Rector of Magherafelt: — Castledawson school does not 
 exist at all ; could not raise funds enough ; Mr. Vesey's bequest lies in Northern bank, to be employed at 
 a future time, if sufficient can be raised in addition, 1 05GG-7. — (As to the other school, sec Magherafelt.) 
 
 CaatlehwrJc, Co. Dublin : — Report and Correspondence on state and management of the Accounts of 
 Madam Mercer's School, pages 326-8. 
 
 Castlemacadam and Newbridge Schools, Co. Wicklow : 
 
 Letter from Rev. Francis Alexander Sanders, Rector of Castlcmacadam, as to a grant for building a 
 school at Castlemacadam by the Association for Discountenancing Vice ; supported by Lord Powers- 
 court, who pays the salaries of teachers, 13740. 
 
 Question whether it is a parochial or public .school, or a private one solely under Lord Powerscourt's 
 control, 13740, 13747 etscq., 13702: rights over it exercised on part of Lord Powerscourt, 1374'\ 
 13747, 13751, 13754. Conditions on which grants were made by the As.sociation for Discounte- 
 nancing Vice, 13755- G. 
 
 Information in Reports of previous Inquiries, 13741, 13744, 13755. 
 
 Letter from Joseph Corrcll, master : a private .school at Kilqueeny, 13741. 
 
 Letter from Captain George T. Cranfield, Agent for Lord Powerscourt's estate ; a private school 
 at Kilqueeny, 13743. 
 
 Evidence of Hon. and Rev. Willianj ^Yingtield, Rector of Abbeyleix, one of the guardians of Lord 
 Powerscourt, 13745-63: education in the district sufficient, 13757-61. 
 
 Castlemarhet, Queen's County : 
 
 School endowed by Patrick Dillon, Es([. ; no longer in operation, 5091, 5113, 5116. 
 
 Letter from Rev. John Wolseley, Portarlington ; school not known, 5092. 
 
 Evidence of John Hely Owen, Esq. ; remembers the school, and beard of endowment ; not aware 
 in whose po-ssession now, 5094-8. 
 
 Evidence of Loftus Bland, Esq., m.p. : at Castloniarket, Queen's Co., was a large and succe.ssful 
 school, near Ballinakill; .schoolhouse there, but in ruins, 5093. 
 
 Castleraghan, Parochial School, Co. Cavan : 
 
 Report, 1835, of Commissioners of Public Instruction ; house and ground, subscriptions, and 
 children's payments, 7810. 
 
 Lord Fitzgerald and Vesey, Rector of Castleraghan, Dean of Kilmore : — Letter from, 7810 ; Evi- 
 dence, 7817-21 : school on glebe land, one plantation acre, free of rent, but never conveyed ; is not 
 an endowed school; salary paid by rector, 7816, 7819. 
 
 Castleshane, Co. Monaghan : 
 
 An old endowment for a school, by Edward Lucas, Esq. ; but arrangement between him and 
 Bequest Board, that he maintaining the school, the endowment not to be further investigated, 9288. 
 
 C'ather, Rev. ./., Vicar of Westport ; letter as to endowments for schools in his i)arish ; school at 
 Knappa (county Mayo), 6097. 
 
 Cavan Co. of: Inquiry as to .schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken at 
 Cavan, 7786 et seq. 
 
 Kilmore Roman Catholic Academy, in town of Cavan : see Kilmore Academy, Cavan. 
 
 Kilmore School, endowed under Association for Discountenancing Vice ; see Kilmore, Co. Cavan. 
 
 CAVAN ROYAL SCUOOL. 
 
 Information fro II Pepcrts if precious Inquiries, Ac, 7826-7849. 
 
 Charter, temp. Car. I., 15 December, 1697 ; terms of, grant of lands for " the free school at the 
 town of Cavan," 7826.
 
 43G ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Cavaii, Royal Seh-ol — continuctl. 
 
 Act of rarliiiiueiU in 1813, providing for investment of funds, ami for application of.snr])lns 
 after payment of niastpr and assi-stants, to purchase, rcjiair, and upljolding of scliooolliouse and 
 premises ; and residue to '• supporting, maintaining, and providing" Free Scholars, and to ExLibiti<iu.-> 
 to Trinity College, 78i8. 
 
 No Ilonse or lUtl'dlng for a .sehoolliouso in the grant of endowment and no part of school lands 
 a,daj)ted to the purpose : school formerly carried on in a hired house, 7827 ; until new buildings 
 erected, ■which were coni))letecl and entered into possession of in 1820, ample accommodation being 
 then provided, 7827, 7830, 7832. Manner in which funds for building were raised, the provisions 
 of 11 & 12 Geo III. being objectionable ; difiicultics and defects reported in the state of tlie law 
 on this and other points relating to the Royal Schools ; no eflectual pojver to regulate a])pllcation 
 of revenues for advancement (jf education, 7827 ; attempt to create a sufficient building fund out (jf 
 revenues failed : loan for building, and repayment thereof partly out of fumls of Enniskiiicn Schocd, 
 7S31, 7834, 78311. Subsctpieut repairs and alterations, 7834;--5-G, 7838, 78i.3. 
 
 Particulars of estates, rental and arrears, iocome and expenditure, numbeis of scholars, salaries, 
 ic, at various jicriods, 7827, 7831, 7833, 7837-44, 7819. 
 
 Jiepreseiilaliiiis and Complaints of the management of the school, and apjioiutment of master : 
 C.ivan the least eir'rtive of all the H'i\'al Schools ; low state in wliich it had been for many years, 
 7837-8, 784-3, 78-30. 
 
 Visitation. — Reported in 1833 that there had been no Visitation since erection of the schoolhonse 
 in 1820 : a Visitation in 184-3, and unfavourable report of condition and management of the school, 
 and causes of its lamentable inetficiency ; conduct of master, in reference to under-masters ; remedial 
 measures suggested, and visitations and inquiries recommended, 7838, 7840 ; steps taken thereon 
 by Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 7847-8. Frequent changes of under-masters and 
 causes thereof, 784 1^ 784G. CJbservatious of the Master as to the above report, 7859, 7917, 7903, 
 803-3-G, 80G7-9. 
 
 I^ree Pupils. — Com)daints that little or no free education is given, 7S3S : number of free scholars 
 at v.arious times ; from 1830 to 1835 none, except in 1831, two, 7837, 7841 : in 1850-1-2, two ; in 
 1853, none, 7842. Accommodation for SO to lOU pupils, school-room sufficient for upwards of 100, 
 and other accommodation, 7837, 7840 ; total numbers in 1831, nine, 7837 ; in 1833, twenty-five, 
 never had so many since it was built, 7838 ; in 1845, nineteen, nine boarders and ten day scholars, 
 7846 ; numbers at other times, but inability of master to fill vp returns, 7841-2. 
 
 Ejhihilions in connection with this school :— want of, previously to 184-3, 7846 : in 1844, five of 
 £i'j established on conditions stated, 7851 : only one boy appears to have ever obtained (1849) an 
 exhibition from this school, and he lost it before expiration of the term for which it was given, 7849 : 
 from 1814 to 1851 only three had been recommended for exhibitions, but upon report of examiners, 
 not one eligible, 7851. 
 
 Meiiiorial to Lord Lieutenant from inhabitants of Cavan in 1851, complaining of nonfulfilment of 
 trusts and of mi-application of levenues, fiee and cheap education not being jirovidcd ; Cavan not 
 a free school, and not as extensively useful to the locality as it should be : Complaint that a large 
 part of endowment huids has been alienated, which might have been applied in promoting free 
 education ; that funds have been a]iplied to Exhibitions for Trinity College, instead of supporting 
 free scholars in Cavan school, and giving cheap edac.ition there ; that no member of Education 
 Board is connected with the town or county : Recommend remodelling of that Board, and apjjoint- 
 mcnt of Local Boards, amalgamation of funds of all the Royal Schools, better salary for master at 
 Cavari, which should l)e pn)portioiiate to others, two assistant masters, for classics and science, 
 and application of surplus to maintenance and sujiport of free foundation scholars ; pray for 
 inquiry, 785U. 
 
 Letter from CUirestreii Board of Education Commissioners to Lord Lieutenant, in 1851, in 
 reply to Memorial : — Exhibitions to Trinity College, terms on which given ; only three boys refconi- 
 meudeil during seven years, and on examination none of them eligible ; second master discontinued 
 in consequence of small number of pupils ; reduction of salary of master from £200 to £100, on 
 grounds adverted to, anil ajjpropriation of £100 for an under-master ; a few daily pupils receiving 
 free education ; lo-s of rents, alatements, and difficulty in making revenue of the endowment meet 
 its expenses, 7851. 
 
 Present Inqniri/. — Evidcaec of L'ev. Williant Prior Moore, Head Afusler : — Present number of 
 pupils, fifteen boardeivs, all Protestants, 7806-7. Numbers of ]m])ils, boarders and day scholars, at 
 vaiious times ; keeps no register ; iliscrejjancies in returns, which would, he thinks, be idjvlatoil if 
 lie kept a monthly register, 7892-7915. 
 
 Course of Tnsl ruction. — Not exclusively classical, several not learning Greek or Latin atall ; English 
 instruction, ami s(nnc French ; commercial or mercantile education ; details of course of instruction, 
 7873-5, 7'.'9 1-8002. Comjiarison between j'oung men educated in a classical school, and senior 
 class in well managed National 8(diool, 8003-7 : relation of school education to the universities, 
 and ro(]nirements of the latter, 8008-20. Atte)uj>t to introduce industrial or agricultural instruct- 
 lion, but no pupils, the resiilonts being satisfied with their own mode of cultivation, 7979-82. 
 
 Class of socii'tv from whiih pn]iils come, the gentry* in in, mediate neighbourhood, and sons of 
 merchants and shopkeepers in the town ; lias had sons of noblemen, 7870. Sub.sequent [uirsuits : 
 surgeons in the Crimea and elsowliere, clerks in lllugland ami otlii'r situations, many in the army, 
 7877. 
 
 Never beard of any objection to th(^ school on rcllgiuu-) grounds; had Roman Catholic pu])ils 
 before liie cstabli-hment of the J?oman Catholic sciiool in the town (see /liYmore Academy), and gave 
 ample satisfaction, 78X1 ; calechizing and scrij)tural instruction; no endeavour to inlerfero with 
 religious opinions of Roman (Jatholics, who went to their own chaiiel, and no objection to Roman 
 Catholic dcr/vman attetuling them at an}' time tiny wislied : father of two of them requested they 
 siiouid attend tlie morning and o<-cning Scripture reading, 7986-90.
 
 INDEX TO EViDPJNCE. 437 
 
 Cavan, Royal Schord — coiitiiiiioil. 
 
 Disci[)lino: no corporal punishments, except a slijiht piuuly on tlio hanfl, nnd that very neldoiii, 
 7917-8 ; report of visitors in 1845, and master's observations on it, 784G, 8067-9. 
 
 Free Pupils. — DiU'icnlty of ol)taining fren pupils of a class suitable to the school ; steps taken by 
 him for the purpose in oU'erint,' free admissions, 7879-80; never refused any presented, 791G. 
 Suirgests that there should be a certain number of free places, the pupils to be selected by a Local 
 Committee from certain classes, 7878 ; sclectionby committee mii;ht well be combined with examina- 
 tion, and awarding' free places to best answerers, 8021 ; preferable to mere nomination; ap])rovcs 
 election of candidates for free places upon examination, to be admitted for merit and goo<l charac- 
 ter, to all the privileges of the school, and treated on equality with other scholars ; would obviate 
 objections to boys of different ranks in life mixing in same school, 8022-8027. 
 
 Exldhitions. — Want of exhibitions, before they wore established, a cau.-o of parents not sendin" 
 boys to the school ; others taken away and sent to Euniskillen, where one obtained an exhibition 
 8028. — Only one exhibition obtained for Cavan since they were established; only £2.3, not suffi- 
 cient to enable him to li\-e in Dublin and attend lectures, oblii,'ed to give it up : causes of want of 
 success in obtaining exhibitions ; docs not think they have benefited the school ; standard of 
 examination for them too high, and i)referencc for English Colleges ; but has had boys sent to him 
 from Devon and Kerry, 8030-42. Opinion as to effect of exhibitions on school education in this 
 country; a few young men well grounded and prepared for them in branches prescribed, and some 
 few schoolmasters benefited, but have not a good etl'ect on education gencr.ally, and do not raise its 
 standard, 8043-7. Would be more beneficial if the exhibitions of Royal Schools were thrown open 
 to competition of boys from any and all of those schools, instead of limiting the exhil)itIons of each 
 to the boys of the particular school ; Cavan exhibitions, £25 ; others, £50 ; would be advantageous to 
 let the latter be open to Cavan as well as others, placing the schools at the same time on equal footin" 
 in regard to numlior of masters allowed out of school funds and otherwise ; would induce competi- 
 tion between masters as well as boys, 8048-54. Probable effect of throwing open the exhibitions 
 to all schools, and not the Eoyal Schools only, 8055-62. 
 
 School Staff and Salaries : — Appointed head master at salary of £300, subject to charges, formerly 
 upon the Cavan funds, for allowance to his father, who preceded him as master, 7827, 7829 ; after- 
 wards £200, 7841, 79G3. Ills present salary as head master, £100 a-ycar, subject to deductions, 
 and use of nine acres of land : thinks £300 a-year little enough as a suitable income for a master, 
 7SS2-7 : salaries at Armagh, £400; Euniskillen, £500, 7949-51. As to benefit derived by the 
 public from the endowment at Cavan, 7888-91. First assistant master, £100 ; pays £28 a-year to 
 head master for board, etc., 7941-3 : second assistant, paid by head master, 7983. Number of 
 assistants or under masters that he considers necessary to make the establishment efficient and 
 salaries, 7878, 79CS-71. ' 
 
 Promotion of an efficient under master to be head master on vacancy, would be very beneficial 
 and better than present mode of appointment by Govornmout, 7984-5 : promotion from one school 
 to another, 7878. 
 
 Superannuation ; urges a provision of retiring pensions for masters and under masters after certain 
 length of service, as in other public dciiartments ; funds or mode of providing for such superannuation 
 7878, 7952-U5, 7972-3. ' 
 
 School Buildinr/s. — In tolerable repair; some trifling repairs required; mostly executed by the 
 Clare-street Commissioners, who invariably attend to his representations on the subject, 78GS-70. 
 Number and si:!0 of rooms, 7924-40. Internal arragcments, washing conveniences, &c., 7919-23. 
 
 As to a complaint of the accommodation afforded to the assistant master, 7846, 8072-4. 
 
 Master holds some land adjoining that of the school, purchased by him under circumstances 
 stated; improvement of the_ neighbourhood of the school in consequence; fenced off, and boys 
 have a play ground all over it, 80G3-G. Erection of a gate-house adjoining this laud 'and school 
 lands, 8218-24. 
 
 Inspection and Visitation. — School inspected by three Commissioners, three years ago ; no regular 
 inspection ; three visitors appointed by Clare-street Board, 7871-2 : in report of visUation in f833, 
 visitations and iu(]uirics into conduct and success of schools recommended, 784G ; no such visitation 
 or inquiry since, S070-1. 
 
 Sitgr/eslions by the master for improvements in conduct of the school and management of the 
 estate ; for assimilation of the several lloyal schools ; school libraries, and lectures ; constitution of 
 local committees, and of the Board of Commissioners, of whom the bishop of the diocese should be 
 one, 7878. 
 
 ^ ^TRepresentation by master as to the management of the estates, and improvement of them, 7852-6, 
 7878 : instance, on a farm becoming vacant, an offer to pay up arrears and a rent of £1 an acre 
 refused, and farm let to a bailiff' or driver of the estate at ten shillings an acre, and allowance of 
 rent for two years to improve it, 7854 : further ])articulars, correspondence with Clare-street Board 
 on the case, 7944-8, 7974, 8272-4: (and see Evidence of Mr. Bmison, and of Air. Hill, infra). 
 Statements as to what the income of the estates has been and should be, 7966-7: adjoining properties 
 pay much larger rentals, 7975-7. Jealousy of Commissioners as to Master's interference in regard 
 to estates, 827-4. 
 
 No schools on the endowment lands, nor schools for the tenants, 7978 : has himself a school at 
 Killengen, about half a mile distant ; and there is the parochial school in town of Cavan, 7978 -SO. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Henry Charles Murphij, second master of Cavan Royal School, 8075-95. — A 
 scholar of Trinity College, 8094. Appointed by head master, with approval of Lord Lieutenant, 
 8077 : terms on which appointed, 8078-82 : departments of instruction attended to by him, and 
 division of duties in the school, 8083-93. No suggestions to make, 8080. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. John Kennedy, junior assistant. — Terms on which employed ; was educated in the 
 school ; thinks there is a pretty fair system in it ; has no suggestions to make, 8096-8102. 
 
 Evidence of James Benison, Esq., Agent of the Cavan Royal School Estate, and of the Enniskillen 
 Vol. II. ' 3 L
 
 438 EXDOWED SCUOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSIOX. 
 
 Cavan, Eoijal School — continued. 
 
 Royal School Estate, under the Clare-street Commissioners of Education : — Evidence of, as to Cavan 
 School Estate, 8103-8217, 8225-82-12. 
 
 Rental of estates, £577 : difficulty of collecting the rents, on his appointment in 1847 ; amount 
 received at different periods, allowances for failure of potato crop and other losses, and deductions 
 for rates, salaries, &c., 8106-15. Particulars of towulands on the estate, their acreage and valua- 
 tion, number of tenants, 8115, 819j— i. Does not agree th.at the lands are let below their value; 
 inspected them in 1847, and his valuation near what the tenants paid, 8 i 16-7, 8133-7 : no leases, 
 8118, 8232-3 : farms not too small ; no consolidation since, 8119-20. Inspection from time to 
 time, and propositions made by him for new survey and valuation, and improved arrangement of 
 farms, &o., 8122-9, 8138-46, 8235-7. Subletting of farms ; notice against subletting, or transfer- 
 ring of interest and subdivision without consent of Commissioners, 8130-2. 
 
 Explanation as to alleged abuses in letting two farms referred to in Mr. Moore's evidence, 81 30-1, 
 8147-8 : one let by the agent, to a driver or bailiff on the property under himself, at less than was 
 offered by another person; character of the person rejected, 8148, 8153-8166; 8172-6; 8237- 
 8241 ; let without public notice, 8168-8171. 
 
 Erection of a gate-house at expense of the master, after unsuccessful application to Commissioners ; 
 afterwards reimbursed, 8217-24. 
 
 No schools on the towidands forming the estate, and no means of education or agricultural instruc- 
 tion for the tenants, 8178-80, 8190-1 : some improving tenants on the estate, but nothing to promote 
 improvement in husbandry, 8180-92. Want of inspection of estates and of better mode of making 
 reductions or allowances for encouraging improvement, 8195-8216. Want of draining on portions 
 of the estate, 8225 : made suggestions for the improvement of the estate, 8226-32. Average value 
 of property in neighbourhood higher since 1847 or 1848, but no re-valuation since, 8235-6. 
 
 Evidence of Charles Harper, Esq., Cavan, a medical man. — Holds land at Billess, formerly part of 
 the school estate : evidence as to value of the lands as compared with other lands in the neighbour- 
 hood, 8243-63. 
 
 Evidence of Charles Hill, Esq., a land agent : as to the laud let to a bailiff, for which he thinks 
 its value at the time was given ; has been much improved since and is now worth more, 8265-9 ; 
 character of the person who offered for it and was rejected, 8269 : as to improvements and tenants' 
 indifference, mentions a drain constructed by him out of money given by the Clare-street Board, 
 but the tenants would not keep it clean, 8269-70. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary, and other officers of Clare-street Board, as to superintendence 
 of Royal Schools, management of Estates, &c. ; see under Commissiuners of Education. 
 
 Celhridge, Co. Kildarc : 
 
 Connolly foundation, boarding school, under Incorporated Society ; Rev. Wm. Ardill's evidence, 
 20601 : (see Incorporated Society.) 
 
 Central Boards; see Governing Bodies. 
 
 ClMiiiney, Rev. J., Incumbent of Meigh, and officiating Curate of district of Camlougli, parish of 
 Killevy, Co. Armagh ; Letters from, with returns of attendance formerly at Sturgan School, under 
 Erasmus Smith Board, whose aid was withdrawn in 1850, and school closed; requests inquiry j 
 correspondence with Rev. Mr. Chamney, 9314, 9325-7. — See Sturgan. 
 
 Chapman, Rev. John B., Rector of Drimnagh (Co. Tyrone), one of a deputation from inhabitants of 
 Omagh, as to general state of education in that neighbourhood and county, and want of facilities 
 for education of middle and upper classes: Evidence as one of the deputation, 11453-4 et seij. 
 
 Total absence of educational provision to meet the wants of the district for any above those who 
 attend National schools ; unlike other county towns in this respect, and distance from nearest 
 Royal Schools from twenty to thirty udles, 11455. 
 
 Attempts to establish private schools unsuccessful, from want of inducement to teachers to stay, 
 11458, 11469, 11497; no endowment of any kind in the parish, 11462; numbers who would 
 attend a good endowed school, and classes who suffer from want of one, and would support one, 
 11459-61, 11464-8, 11470-4. 
 
 The school required should embrace both classical and general education for mercantile life and 
 engineering, for boarders and day scholars, 11462-3, 11516-8. Nature and necessity of endowment 
 for support of such a school in the locality, and for maintaining an adequate and etlicicnt staff and 
 school accommoilation, 11508-15, 11555. No difficulty from diversity of religious denominations, 
 11518, 11546-51, 11553-4. Provision for inspection, 11475-6, 11553. As to National and other 
 .schools existing in the neighbourhood, 11477-96. 
 
 Further evidence as to the nature of the scliool required, and course of instruction therein, and 
 the probable success of same, 11479-11496, 11521 et seq. 
 Charges to ]uip)ls, boarders, and day pupils ; see under the rtspective schools. 
 
 Complaint that Governors of Erasmus Smith Board exercise no control over charges in schools 
 under tiiem ; see Cidlinan, Barloio, itc. 
 Charitable Bequdts Board : sec Commissioners of Chariluhk Donations, itc. 
 Charitable InstitiUion endowed I)y Joseph Gwyn, Londonderry : see Londonderry. 
 Charici-s : 
 
 Of Erasmus Smith Schools, (sec under Erasmus Smith and Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 Of Incorporated Society, and Charter ScliooLs, 23232 ct seq., 23290 et seq. 
 
 Of Royal Schools; Armagh, Cavan, Dungannon, Enniskillcn ; Armagh, 9335; Cavan, 782G ; 
 Ennishilkn, 1180-1. Of Banaghcr, 6263-4. 
 
 Cloghcr, 11635-40, 11043. Midlcton, 18C97-700. Oxmantown, 22555-6. Swords, 14021-2, 
 14028. 
 See under names of respective schools.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. ' 439 
 
 Charter ScJiooh : 
 
 Castlobar, Co. Mayo : Protestant Charter school, not in operation ; no evidence as to endowment, 
 6075. 
 
 Pethard, Co. Tippcrary j bequest of Rev. 51. Iliokoy for a Protestant Charter School at, 058 : — 
 
 sec Fflliard. 
 
 Skirtecn, Co. Kihhirc : closeil for many years ; liousc or buildings in possession of Marquess of 
 Droghcda, 13883-4. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. R. Ardill, Secretary of Ineorj)oratcd Society, as to unsuccessful operation of 
 the old Charter Schools, and change to present rcniodcllod system, ^3-32-3 H s<:q. : (sec Incorporated 
 Socii'ii/.) 
 
 Lands of, granted on certain conditions and reverted to original owners on discontinuance of 
 schools, 4731. 
 
 €hat/4rlon, Ahrnhim Thomas, Esq., land agent, receiver, and solicitor for St. Stephen's Hospital or 
 Blue Coat School at Cork : — Evidence of, as to estates, accounts, and management of the institution, 
 1377-1429, 1529-35, 15.53, 155G, 15G2-3, 1573. 
 
 Mismanagement, and abuse of leasing power? : rental lias remained the same since 1705 ; value 
 of lands as comjjared with the income of the institution from them ; income, less income tax, not 
 much more than £350; but occupying rent, over £7000, 1377-82, 1510. 
 
 Diihculty and delay in tracing and obtaining the deeds now in the depository of the hospital ; 
 where found, 13S3-1400. Deed authorizing leases for twenty-one years, and another deed giving 
 power to corporation as trustees to make fee-farm grants, 1503-4, 1515-C. Leases all in perpetuity, 
 no terminable leases, 1408-11. 
 
 Rental and accounts, and state of the latter, 1412-25, 1428-9, 1504-12, 1529-35. Accounts 
 not settled or audited by the trustees, 1514, 15G2, — See further, under Corlc. 
 
 Choral Schools : 
 
 Armaijh, AUott, 9307-13 ; Limericl; Mullin, 284G et seq., Kirwan, 3294-9. — See under respective 
 names. 
 
 Music and singing as part of school instruction ; see under ^It/sic. 
 
 Chrht's Hospital, London ; Annual Payment to, by Erasmus Smith Board (see under Erasmus 
 Smith;) Hamilton, 21885; Barlow, 19688-9. 
 
 Christian Brothers Schools : 
 
 Castlebar, G2G5-7. 
 
 Cork, 1242 et se.q. : see Cork. 
 
 Dublin, 13435. 
 
 Kclls, 13390. 
 
 Limerick, 4G81 et seq. : see Limerick 
 
 Marvborou-h, 5120-1, 5127-8, 5150-3. 
 
 Muliingar, llevey's Endowment, 13359 et seq.; see under MuUingar. 
 
 Tralee, 2329, 2347 et seq. : see Tralee. 
 
 Waterford, 13435. 
 
 High character of; Corl; 1355, 1356-63, 1358, 13G4-5; Limerick, 4681, 4729. 
 
 See under respective names. 
 
 Christy, Mr. James M., twenty-four years resident in Swords (Co. Dublin), and churchwarden at 
 different times ; Evidence of, in reference to Dean Scardeville's and Archdeacon Hewitson's endow- 
 ments for a Protestant school at Swords, 1G196 et seq. 
 
 Has seen maps and papers relative to the Economy Estate, which is understood to be a church 
 estate, and exclusively Protestant charity; never knew of any one being educated out of it, 
 or of its applicability to education, 16202-6. There bad formerly been a Protestant school sup- 
 ported out of Economy Estate before present school (Borough School) of Swords, 16207-9: could 
 show lands which have been diverted and misappropriated; previous inquiries on the subject by a 
 local Committee put an end to, 16209-12, 16224; purchase of lands out of Dean Scardeville's 
 bequest, now piirt of Economy Lands; refusal to sign accounts presented to him while churchwarden 
 by vicar and other trustees, 16213-5, 16222-3. 
 
 Knows nothing of legacy of Archdeacon Hewitsou, 1G216-7: as to lands on which the mill 
 stands; changes of owners and want of title, 162 19. 
 
 (See under Suwds.) 
 
 Church Education Society, Kildare-place : Schools in connection with ; 
 
 AUana or Attanasrh, Durrow, Queen's Co., 4740, 4743. 
 
 Annadufl; Co. Lei'trim, 6922-30. 
 
 Cloghcr, Endowed School, Co. Tyrone, 11635, 11643. 
 
 Cork, Creen Coat Ho.spital, 1094-5. 
 
 Dnrrow, Queen's Co., 4737, 4740, 4743. 
 
 Galway, English Schools, and other Erasmus Smith Schools, 5719, 5756-9, 21722-5. 
 
 Lifi'ord Grammar School, 1442-5. 
 
 Monaghan, .Jackson School, 8334-9, 8351-G, 8382-447, 85550-1, 8558-9. 
 
 Pallasgreen, Co. Limerick, Erasmus Smith, 4452 et seq. 
 
 Shinrone, King's Co. (Lord Lieutenant's Fund), 6258-60. 
 
 Tralee, Strand-street, Co. Kerry (Lord Lieutenant's Fund), 2340, 2342. 
 
 Turlough, Co. Mayo (Lord Lieutenant's Fuud), 0083. 
 
 "VVicklow Free School (Lord Lieutenant's Fund), 13679. 
 
 And see under Xames of Schools or Localities. 
 Vol. II. ■ 3 L 2
 
 440 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Civil Service; competition for public appointments-, sec Aj^poinlmcnts. 
 
 Clare, Co. of: Inquiry as to scliools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken at 
 Ennis, 3810 rf seq. 
 
 Clare-street Board: see Commissioners of Education in Ireland. 
 
 Clarice, William, Esq., land surveyor and valuator, Clonsern_y, Sligo ; Evidence of, as to general 
 state of education, and want of adequate provision for same in the district, G748-GS00. A jjood 
 deal of Erasmus Smith property in the neiiilibourhood, hut no school on it, C7i9, C7G2 : want of 
 a s'.-hool for middling class, G763. National Schools injurious to the middle class, having 
 deprived their teachers of means of maintenance and obliged them to leave the country: excel- 
 lent schools in Sligo before National Schools were established, G751-6. Those who want a 
 mathematical or classical education now go where they best can get it, 6757. A good general 
 school in Sligo would supply the wants of the parish, G7G4. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Eoard, who derive a profit rent of £300 a-ycar (G7521 out of the parish., main- 
 tained two masters for nine or ten years and half built a schoolhouse, but threw it up; no 
 benefit from them since, G757. 
 
 Classical Scliooh : see under Grammar Schools, Royal Schools, and names of respective localities or 
 hools. 
 
 Diminution of, and of private schools; and eflect of National Schools ; sec Intermediate, Xational. 
 
 Classics : 
 
 Undue importance attached to in some schools ; Dean Warburloti. Elphin, 731G, 7321-6. Monch, 
 Banagher Royal School, 5278. Ennis, Knox, 4128-4145. Ennislcilkn, Trimble, 11913. 
 
 Demand for classical instruction; Clonmel, Canavan, 1025. Limerick, O'Shea, 2397-405, 2412. 
 
 Diminution of demand for classical instruction, and want of commercial or mercantile schools : — 
 Clonmel, Hughes, 1110-39. Limerick, Murray, 4173-4. Limerick, Revington, 4214-7. London- 
 derry, Ferguson, 11008-14. Mullingar, Woodward, 13259-CS, 13291-305. Maryborough, Butler, 
 5139-48,5153-5. Ennis, Knox, 4128-45. Belfast, ViWaon, 10547-8; and see other witnesses 
 under Belfast. 
 
 Instruction iu mercantile or commercial course in same .school with classical instruction; see 
 Comhination. 
 
 Cleanliness : 
 
 Importance of; Cork, Christian Brothers, Duggan, 1349-54. 
 
 Want of; Cork, Searson, 1803-21. Drogheda Blue School, Shaw, 12452 etseq.; seo Droghedeu 
 
 Givyn School, Londonderry, Skipton, 110G7-74, 11083-5. 
 
 Ctegg, 'Miss Anna Jane, mhtress i>{ Erasmus Smith Girls School, Galway; Evidence of, (see under 
 Galway,) 5883 ci seq. 
 
 Clergy: importance and advant:igc of inspection and visitation of schools by local clergy; Cori, 
 2171; Dunscombe, 2069-75, 2077; Templcmichael, Qa.xA, 7600-15, 7G33-4 : pern™, and see /»«- 
 spection. 
 
 Charge upon, for Diocesan Schools, which arc useless to them; Dean Plunket, 6063 : see Diocesan 
 Schools. 
 
 Objections to tlergymcn for Masters of Schools; see under Eeligi-on. 
 
 Clermont, Lord : Letter from, as to supposed endowment of a .school formerly at Glydc Farm, Co. 
 Louth, now closed, 12252 — (See Clyde Farm.) 
 
 Clogher, Archdeacon of, Venerable John A. Russell ;— sec Eussell. ' 
 
 Clogher, Kilmore, and Raphoe District Diocesan School, at Monaglian ; sec under Monaghan. 
 
 Clogher Endowed School, Co. Tyrone : (endowed by Chas. I., by Bishop Leslie, and by Bishop Garnett.) 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries, 11635-11643. 
 
 Charters of Chas. L, annis 1630-1-2 : Corporation of Clogher to build a grammar school within 
 two years, and maintain a schocdniaster and assistant, to teach reading and writing of English, 
 with the rents and profits of 200 acres, the master to be nominated by the Bishop of Clogher ; 
 conveyance of 100 acres by the Bishoj) ; nomination of trustees, and conditions of trust ; Dean and 
 Chapter incorporated, with power to receive endowments for purposes of the school, 11635-40. 
 
 Commissioners of Education report (1807,) that Robert Leslie, Bishop of Clogher in 1072, devised 
 the interest of £500 for the maintenance of a free school at Clogher, auil that this money has never 
 been ajiplied, 11641. 
 
 AVill of Dr. Garnett, Bishop of Clogher, bequeathed a sum of £100 a-year payable by trustees of 
 Bishop Stern's (Jharities for repairs of Cathedral, when rocovorod, to Dean and Chapter in trust for 
 a schooolmaster and schoolhouse in the parish, 1 1G42. Also mention of a bcciucst of the interest of 
 a Mum of £420 bc(jucatlicd by Bishop Garnett for education witliiu tho see, 11643. 
 
 Reported in 1833, no trace of the existence of such a school as was contemplated by the Charter 
 to tho Corporation of Cloglior ; one supported partly by the Bishop of Clogher and last-named 
 bequest of Bishop Garnett, 11G43. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Letters from Mr. John I). Bollston, master of Clogher Endowed School ; parti- 
 culars as to endowments, and diversion (jf bome of them fr(;m their original purpose, 11G45-6. 
 Evidence, 11657-11719. 
 
 Statement by Mr. Magce, Ncwry (sec Armagh,) 9373. 
 
 Letter from Rev. J. Ilannn, Clogher, who states that Bishoj) Sterne bequeathed a .sum of money 
 for tiie endowment of the scdiool and other purpose.'", invested in bind, ciilhd the Middleton E.'itate, 
 Co. Armagli, 11647. — Comniunii-ation with Secretary of Bi.'-hop Sterne's trustees: I'rimato not 
 aware of any school in Clogher endowed by Bishop Sterne out of Muldlcton Estate, 11648.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 441 
 
 Cloglier Endowed Sc?w(jI — continued. 
 
 Letter from Rev. WiUi<im Brownlow Ashe, Cunite of Cloglier, with particulars as to endowments, 
 llClO-flS ; more land formerly attached to school than at present; conveyance of land by Ecclesi- 
 astical Commissioners in 1853 to J. A. Saddler, of Cloglier, llG't9-iiO ; and tabular statement of 
 lands granted to Cloglier School hy Chas. I, IICH. Necessity for incjuiry, 11G53. 
 
 Letter from M. M. Bell, Esij., of Armagh, to llev. Win. Ashe, relating to IJi.shop Garnott's Kiulow- 
 ment, 11 Goo. 
 
 Evidence, of Rev. John Grey Porter, one of the Commissioners of Education, as to the lands ; 
 good grounds for further inquiry ; reads will of Bishop Garnctt, 11710-18. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Rollston, master of Endowed School : — sixty -four pupils ; forty-seven of Church 
 of Eiighind, twelve Protestant Distcnters, ten Konuin Catholics, 11CG3-G : children of farmers and 
 shojiheepers, 11G77. 
 
 Free pupils selected hy the dean or the superintendent (the Rev. Mr. Ashe, Curate), or admitted 
 hy master himself, 11G73. 
 
 Conrso of instruction, that prescribed b_v Church Education Society, with additions, gauging, 
 land surveying, 11G74-G. Scriptures rea<l daily without note or comment ; all read them, 11G80-1 : 
 visited by elergvnian once a week, examines them in Scriptiire in a general way, without reference 
 to sects, nG97-117UO. 
 
 Inspection half-yearly under Church Education Society, and by inspector appointed by Bishop ; 
 reports to Bisliop, 11G69-72. Numbers of pupils returned as proficient, and allowance for same ; 
 gratuities, 11GB2-9. 
 
 Attendance of children pretty regular ; struck oft' for two months' absence ; but may enter again, 
 11G90-G. 
 
 Adequately supplied with books, ic, and school requisites ; supplied by order of superintendent 
 at his own expense, voluntarily ; no other provision for them, 11701-!). 
 
 Schoolhouse in tolerable repair ; not repaired since he came four years ago ; previously put in 
 repair by Bishop, 11GG7-8. 
 
 Other schools in vicinity ; one under Church Education Society and three under National Boar<l, 
 llG7S-y. 
 
 Clonaslee, Kilniannaii, Queen's Co. : \ 
 0'o7iaslee, rortarlingtou, Queen's Co. : ( 
 
 Erasmus Smith Schools or endowments ; no longer in operation, 4730, 5113, 5115. 
 
 Memorial from Henry Webb, formerly Master of Erasmus Smith Endowed School at Clonaslee, 
 parish of Kilmannan, Queen's County ; reduction of numbers, and causes, and of his salary; his 
 removal; j)rays for compensation, superannuation, or annuity, 4736. 
 
 Clondragh, Co. Longford : 
 
 Report (1835), of Commissioners of Public Instruction : a school with a house and plot of ground 
 free, and a,nnual sum from rector, 77G7. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Robert T. Bevan, Curate of Killashec : — the school was in the union of 
 Killashee ; not endowed, only kept by late rector, and when he left was given up, 77C8-72. 
 
 Other schools in Killashee ; see KiUasliee. 
 
 Clonenagh, Mountrath, Queen's Co. : 
 
 Erasmus Smith Schoid or endowment; no longer in operation, 473G, 5113, 5115. 
 
 Clovfert, Dean of, and Rector of Cloniueena, Very Rev. Robert M. Kennedy; Evidence of, as to Kil- 
 
 bricken School, Queen's Co. (under Clare-street Commissioners of Education), for the tenantry of the 
 
 Preston estate, in connection with Ballyroan and Navau schools, 502G-55, 50GG-70. 
 
 Unsatisfactory and depressed state of school, and causes thereof; disputes as to the introduction 
 
 of Roman Catholic religious instruction, and as to placing the school under the National Board ; 
 
 school discountenanced by Roman Catholic clergymen because of want of Roman Catholic religious 
 
 instruction, 4915-5070. 
 Chnlehjh parish, Ballindrato School, Co. Donegal ; sec Ijallindrate. 
 Clo7ilost, in ]iarish of Rathconnell, Co. Westmeath ; school not endowed; supported by annual voluntary 
 
 subscriptions, 13098. 
 Clomnel, Co. Tipperary : — Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of 
 
 education iu Co. Tipporarj', G54 et seq. 
 
 Clonmcl Endowed School, 70G et seq., 1041 et scq. 
 
 Incorporated Society's school, 927 el seq. 
 
 General State of Education and provision for same, 1050 et seq. 
 
 CLONMEL ENDOWED SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from Reports of prerioi/s Inquiries, <tc., 706-715. Report of Commissioners of 
 Education Inquir}', between 1807 and 1812: — Endowment by Richard and Stephen Moore, Esqrs., 
 for a free school for education and training of "all the Protestant children gratis;" trustees 
 (Duke of Ormonde, R. and S. Moore, and Mayor of Clonmcl, or any two of them), to a])])oint and 
 change masters, as they think fit; lands and other particulars of endowment and limitations; 
 number and description of pupils, nature of instruction, and management of school generally, 
 70G-7. Further reports on these matters, rates of paj-ment for pupils, Szc, 708 et seq. Elsewhere 
 described as for gratuitous education "of the sons of freemen of the borough," 708-9 et seq. 
 
 Extent and value of the endowment variously described: — In 1809,370 acres, let for £200 
 a-year ; afterwards £400 a-year; proceedings in Chaucer}-; value stated or estimated at £700 a-year; 
 no fund for repairs except what master appropriates out of his income, which is £400 from the
 
 442 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Cloninel, Endowed School — continued. 
 
 estate, 707. In 1821, and subsequent reports, lands produce £400 a-year, subject to payment of 
 £240 a-year in repajonent of a Government loan for building the schoolhouse, 708-710. 
 
 In 1835, Report of House of Commons' Committee on Foundation Schools ; 400 acres, rental or 
 annual income estimated at £700 a-year, 710. 
 
 In 1841 ; — Lease expired ; legal difficulties ; new letting under legal advice ; survey and valua- 
 tion ; appointment of a local agent for management of the estate, under Clare-f;treet Board ; high 
 standing of school as a classical school, 711. 
 
 Further litigation : loans contracted for drainage improvements of estate, 712. 
 
 Rents, 1845-9; from £216, received in 1845, to £5G0, received in 1849: disbursements for salaries, 
 repairs, <fec., 713. 
 
 Numbers of pupils: boarders, day scholars, and free scholars, at various periods, 707-8, 712, 
 715, 721, 748 et seq. 
 
 Matters in dispute between the master, Rev. T. Kettlewell, and the Clare-street Commissioners 
 of Education : Report of Board for 1851, on a visitation of the school and conduct of the master; 
 publications by him of misconceptions in matters of fact aud unsound conclusions therefrom, 714. 
 
 Present Tnqviri/. — Letter from Uev. Thomas Kettlewell, master, complaining of the Clare-street 
 Commissioners, and referring to his publications on the subject, 715. Evidence, 717 et seq. 
 
 Letter from liev. William Brown, Dungarvan Glebe, Kilfane, formerly connected with Endowed 
 school of Clonmel ; refers to largo landed property connected with it ; the late master, Dr. Bell, 
 told him a large portion of the property had been illegally severed from the endowment by a 
 jirevious master or trustee, and but for this, would be nearly £3,000 a-ycar, 71G. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Thomas Eettlewell, master of Clonmel Endowed School, 717-865, 895-9, 1042-6, 
 1119, 1125: estate, 385 plantation acres, 719. Complains of the amount of income received 
 by him, and of the non-jiayment of the full amount to which he considers himself entitled ; 
 claims the entire income from the estate after paying charges upon it, such as repayment of loan 
 for building, repairs, and other annual outgoings, same as previous masters ; amount he was led to 
 expect, and opinion of Attorney-General that he had not asked as much as he was entitled to demand 
 from the Commissioners ; gave up his profession and chances of preferment in the Church, to take 
 the school, the estate of which he was led to understand was worth £700 a-year; got but £200; 
 expected to be put on same footing as previous masters since 1685, and in conse(jueuce, incurred 
 great expenses on the house, which have in%'olved him in difficulties ; proceedings and representa- 
 tions at various times on the subject, 722-741, 744-6, 843-863, 1042-3. Content that the 
 Clare-street Board should manage the property, he receiving the net income, though he considers 
 they got possession under an illegal conveyance, 728, 859 : as to the alleged illegal conveyance, 
 851-8, 899. 
 
 Number of pupils in the school at various times ; discrepancies in returns, one of the subjects of 
 collision with Clare-street Board of Commissioners, 721, 747,771, 835-841. Present number of 
 pupils, twenty-six, aud two coming, day scholars ; of the tvi'enty-eight, eight free, 826-7 ; eighteen 
 paying, 865 : — no boarders since January, 1848, when he discontinued receiving them, for reasons 
 assigned, 721, 747: numbers of boarders previously, from three to tweuty-eight in difl'erent years, 
 748. 
 
 Free Pupils ; considers they should be sons of Protestant freemen of Borough of Clonmel, 772 
 (and see 707-8-9) : fifty-nine freemen, of whom three are Roman Catholics, some Presbyterians 
 and Quakers, and the rest Episcopalians, 773 : never refused freemen'.s sons, and never received 
 any payment whatever for them ; has received free pupils who were not freemen's sons nor entitled, 
 772-4. Eight free pupils at present, one not entitled admitted by himself, 826, 841. 
 
 Course of Instruction: — classical and commercial, 790; pupils, if parents desire it, educated for 
 the university in the whole college entrance course, 776 : other pupils educated for business, their 
 parents not wishing for classics, 777. Few persons entered university from his school, but instances 
 of success there, 778-9. Nature of the commercial education, part of which is English grammar, 
 which cannot, he thinks, bo learned without Latin, which he teaches to all without anything extra., 
 780-2, 834 : does not teach modern languages, nor Hebrew, but a French master in town can attend 
 the school to teach any pupils for whom parents desire it, who teaches German and Hebrew 
 also, 783-5, 816-7. As to success of his pupils educated for commercial life; parents satisfied, 
 786-8 : evidence of the Mayor and \\v. Hughes, who have had pupils at his school, 1049, 1 1 19-22. 
 Man}' whose parents desire a commercial education, not classical, 789-92. Further particulars of 
 instruction, and division of school business between himself and assistant; selection of books, 
 793-815, 830-4. 
 
 Hours of study, 842 ; holidays, 843 ; books used in the school, 811-3, 830-3,865; no school library, 
 but desirable, 818-9 ; has not applied to Clare-street Board for hooks or school requisites, conceiving 
 there are no funds applic.alile to them, the debt on the house being unpaid; has provided largo 
 maps himself : efficiency of school would bo increased if supjdied with books for a library, and other 
 appliances, 820-5. 
 
 Jlr. Kettlewell further oflx'rs his brother, Joshua Kettlewell, M.A., who has been associated with 
 liim in management of the school for six years, for examination, 895-8. 
 
 As to right of Mayor of Clonmel to a voice wllli the trustees in the appointment of the master, 
 707, 742-r5, 894. 
 
 Mr. Michael Glecson, Town Clerk of Clonmel ; — has not the original or copy of grant em- 
 powering mayor to nominate master, 894 ; produces list of freemen, 893. 
 
 Evidence of Zlr. Cornelius Molony, assistant (o the m.asfer : — ajijiointed by Mr. Kettlewell, 1854, 
 at £40 a-year, and instruction in classics, 866-70. His duties in the school, chicHy science branches 
 and superintendence of boys in school, when Mr. Kettlewell not present, 871, 885 ; has commercial
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 443 
 
 Clonmel, Endoioed School — contimicil. 
 
 pupils and some proparinj,' fur commissions in tlio army, 872-0 ; particulars of instruction to com- 
 mercial pupils, 871, 874-881 ; selection of books, 888, 890-1. As to success in after-life, 882-4. 
 Advanta!,'o of classical and Kn;,disli education for persons going to business ; cannot write well without 
 it ; the practice of classical instruction to pupils for commercial life, Las not in the least deterred 
 pupils from the school, 88G. 
 
 Evidnnce of SUphcn JfiMva, Esip, of Barn, near Clonmel : — as to causes of the decline of Clonmel 
 Endowed School ; objection to its not being a boarding school ; niastor well fitted ; distinguished 
 men educated there under former masters, while a large boarding school ; falling oil' of the school 
 attributable to the master's pecuniary emljarrassmonts and lialiilities referred to by himself, 900-18. 
 If the debt were removed, the school would assuredly be very flourishing if the master were enalilcd 
 to carry it out to the satisfaction of the ncighlmuring gentry ; is certain it would be sujiported by 
 the commercial and trading community ; all have the highest opinion of the master's abilities, 
 919-22, 92G : the amount of free education, eight free pupils, not commensurate to the wants of 
 the town, but not aware of the reasons for not sending free pupils to the school, 924. At present 
 many of the resident gentry send their sons to distant places for education, to Dublin and distant 
 parts of Ireland, and to England, 902-5. 
 
 Evidence ofJos-ph Kenny, Esq., Mayor of Clonmel : — to same effect as that of Mr. Moore, supra, 
 as to Clonmel Endowed School and causes of its decline, 1041-9. Suggests that as the number of 
 freemen of Clonmel is becoming very small indeed, the establishment, intcmlcd to be a Protestant 
 institution, ami for freemen only, should bo modilied to suit the requirements of the time, and the 
 funds be applledfor the good of the public of Clonmel generally, and not for any particular sector class 
 exclusively, 1041. The master, Mr. Kettlewell, expresses his concurrence in regard to throwing 
 open the education to all, 1044. Mayor considers it would be a great advantage to Clonmel to have 
 a well-regulated classical school and well-regulated commercial school ; is certain such schools would 
 be well supported, 1047-9. 
 
 iNConroRATED society's school, clonmel. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Edward O'llara Canavan, master of Incorporated Society's School and of the 
 parochial school, the two being united :— in Incorporated Society's School, thirty-five pupils, thirty 
 average ; English and scientific education, 928-934. Details of instruction and manner of con- 
 veying it; proportion of oral instruction, writing from dictation, arithmetic, book-keeping,geography, 
 history, psalmody, 93.5-9G2, 993, 1014-5. 
 
 School hours, ten to three ; but never found any except a very studious boy capable of sustaining 
 attention for five hours without recreation ; become jaded ; thinks it not a good system, 9S0-3 : 
 insufficient means of recreation at the school, play-ground too confined, 984-8. 
 
 Success of pupils in after-life; some to Farra {see Earra) and Santry (see Santry) ; some to 
 trades or situations ; town supplied with apjjrentices from the school, 995, 1006-7. 
 
 Inspection of school once a-year by Incorporated Society, 1003 : — Visited from time to time by 
 rector and curates of parish, some to examine ; suggestions by visitors, 1009-15. 
 
 Books and school requisites supplied from Incorporated Society, on his demand, amply, 101 G-S, 
 
 Not altogether free pupils ; supposed to pay something, fi-ora a penny a week to 5s. a quarter ; 
 the latter, shopkeepers and middle class, 1019-21. 
 
 Consiilerable demand for superior instruction in Clonmel, 1022-4. His pupils come chiefly for 
 commercial education ; if a good commercial school were opened in Clonmel with all necessary 
 means and appliances, there would bo a great number of pupils, say sixty, of middle classes ; would 
 teach the physical sciences to the senior boys ; not taught in his own school, 970-8 ; and import- 
 ance of music, 989-994. 
 
 Demand for more classical instruction than is afforded at present, 1025. Thinks there would be 
 forty or fifty pupils at a well managed classical school, 1026-7 : a good classical and commercial 
 school would have 100 pupils, 1028-9 : other schools would not operate to the detriment of such 
 a school, 1030-40. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION ANB PEOVISION FOE SAME. 
 
 See above ; Evidence of Mr. Moore, Mr. Kenny, Mr. Canavan. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Mcdcoinson, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends, Merchant, Miller, Ship- 
 owner, Clonmel : — Has been great want of commercial instruction in Clonmel, not so great since 
 National Model School and School of Mechanics' Institute established ; model school has been of 
 more advantage than any, but not as extended as it might be, 1050-9, 1078-9. "Want of such a 
 school for middle classes, who do not like to send their children to mix with lower classes, lOGO-1 : 
 a plain English commercial education required, classics not much required, but with French particu- 
 larly or German ; branches of instruction which he would include, 1062-77. 
 
 Benjamin Grubb, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends, Clonmel ; trustee of some endowed 
 schools : — A want of scliools for the middle and respectable classes in Clonmel has existed for 
 several years ; a well conducted classical and commercial school, as formerly, would have many 
 pupils, some of whom are at present sent elsewhere ; no such school at present in Clonmel, 1083-5. 
 Kind of instruction that is required ; the very best English education wanted in Clonmel, with 
 French and German ; character of the residents in this neiglibourhood requires a good school, which 
 would be well supported, 1088-95 : does not think the Model School and Mechanics' Institute fill 
 up the blank, 1095-1102. 
 
 Munster Provincial School; high character of it, 1103-7. 
 
 Evidence of .John Iluyhc.i, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends : want of a good commercial 
 school at Clonmel, which he thinks would be well supported ; grounds of his belief, and nature of 
 instruction required, 1110-39 ; as to a classical and commercial school, 1117-8. 
 
 Clonmuls/:, Co. Carlow : 
 
 Rev. Frederick J. Trench, Rector of Carlow :— existing parish school of Clonmnlsk appears to 
 Lave an endowment, 75.
 
 444 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Close, Yvcy. Jo/ill Forlx-.f, Rector of Kilkcel ; Letter from, as to Bryaiisfonl School fCo. Down), and 
 endowment under Lord Lieutenant's Fund : — Grants by Government and Lord Iloden, but no pro- 
 vision entered into forgiving the control of tlie scliools into other hands tliau his iordshij/s own, 
 and no stipulation for grant of land in perpetuity, 97G6. — Sec Bryansford. 
 
 Clothing of Pupils : 
 
 Schools in which boys or gii-ls are clothed ; see under names of particular schools. 
 
 Complaints of Erasmus Smith Board not clothing pupils, as provided in Charter; see Cullinan, 
 Barlow, Hamilton, uudcr Jiiasmiis ,'imith Buard. 
 
 As to distinctive dress for free schools, sec under Dress. 
 
 Clough, Co. Monaghan : 
 
 Commissioners of Public Instruction reported (1835) a school at, in connection with Association 
 
 for Discountenancing Vice, and house and acre of ground : appears not to be iu operation ; r.o 
 
 return, 9302. 
 Coal Fund : in connection with School, and how mpuaged, and complaints respecting same : — 
 
 Sivords, see under Swords. 
 Coleraine, Co. Londonderry: — Pnnds appropriated by Irish Society to education, in connection with 
 
 Coleraine and Londondcry, 1075 ; see under Londunderrij. 
 
 Colleges, Queen's: 
 
 EfTects of, on schools, and on course of instruction therein ; and relation of schools to; Belfast, 
 M'Cosh, 10515-7. Belfast Academi/, Bijce, 10370—1. 10375-8. Belfast Academical Institution, 
 10417. 10420. Galwa'n, Killeen, 5500-5, 2014G-55 ; Hallowell, 20147 et seq. ; Berwick, 23123-5, 
 23134'; O'Leary, 0040-4. Cavan, Moore, 800S-20. Castlehar, Buchanan, 617G-9. 
 
 Connection of schools with, by course of instruction, and by means of exhibitions, scholarship.s, 
 &c. Belfast, Gibson, 10423-41. Galieay, O'Leary, 6040. 
 
 Objection to, 7746, 7748. 
 
 Synodical Address of Council of Thurlcs, 1850, page 380; and three Boscripts on Queen's Colleges, 
 1847-50, jMgcs 388-9. 
 
 See further under names of respective schools and witnesses. 
 
 Colles, Maurice, Esq.; evidence as to John C. Hicksou's endowment for poor schools at Tralee, Co. 
 
 Kerry: — Sale of property and application of proceeds; none remaining in Court, 2382-92. — See 
 
 under Tralee. 
 Collins. Ellen, formcTly a, school-girl in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin; Evidence of, as to 
 
 improper employment of girls by schoolmistress in working for her (see under Swords), 15377 et seq. 
 
 Comhination of classical and commercial or mercantile course of instruction in same school ; 
 
 Not attended with difficulty, a matter of arrangement only ; evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of 
 Cfere-street Board, 212C8-9." 
 
 Not attended with difficulty or inconvenience in a well-regulated school : — Monaghan. Archdeacon 
 Russell, 9218-22. Ennis, King, 3893-4, 3963, 3970. Galway Grammar School, llallowell,20275-7. 
 Foyle School, Londonderry, Escott, 10860 et seq. Watcrford Corporation School, Price, 220-1. 
 
 Doubts as to practicability of combined classical and scientific or commcrci.al education in same 
 school, and difficulty of arranging without .assistant master; Londonderry, Ferguson, 11027-32. 
 liaphoe Royal School, Steele, 11278-94. Drogheda, Lacy, 12765-7. Armagh, Guillomard, 9420 
 et seq., and letter from Rev. Mr. Guilleraard, Armagh Royal School ; suggestions as to difficulties of 
 the combination, and objections ; separate schools bettor ; page 304. 
 
 Evidence in favour of; Limerick, Elraes, 2644-54-79. Ennis, King, 3883, 3S86-7-S-93. 
 Enniskillen, Trimble, 11913. 
 
 Schools in which successfully practised, and how managed: — Bilfasf Academical Instiiiitivn, 
 Allen, 10419-20, 10446. Belfast Acadtmy, Bryce, 10334-5, 10345-9, 10391-3. Banaglier, Bell, 
 5290-1, 5301-17, 5364-70. Caean, Moore, 7873-5, 7991-8002. Clonmel, Kcttlewell, 790; 
 Moloney, 886. Downpai rick, Guo\>(.r, 10273-81. (W/^-, O'Brien, 1191, 1220-4. JJrogheda, Lucy, 
 12760-4. Dunqannnn, Ringwood, 11794-800, 11818-21. Limerick. Ehnes, 2644-54; IIoL'g, 
 2481-2, 2490-5, 2644-5 ; Burke, 4681, 4729. Elphin Diocesan School, Flynn, 7353-5, 7392-4. 
 Ennis, King, 3SS5, 3888. Enniskillen, Greham, 11975, 12021 et seq. Kilmore Roman Catholic 
 Academi/, Cavan, O'Reilly, 7794-7. Foyle School, Londo7iderry, Escott, 10860 et seq. Navan, 
 Lcgg, 12890; Power, 13023 e< aw/. /^i/pAoc, Steele, 11236. 6'aM(!ry, Co. Dublin, 963-7. Water- 
 ford Corporation School, Price, 183, 203, 220-1 ; Aicock, 257. 
 
 Want of better regulated and more extended system of combined instruction in existing schools ; 
 
 Clogher, Russell, 9218-22.' Clonmel, 
 
 Banagher, Monck, 5278. Galivay, Blakeney, 6025-9. 
 Canavan, 1025-40. Enniskillen, Trimble, 11913. 
 
 Want of schools for combined instruction : — Omagh, Alexander, 11563, 11601 ; Chapman, 
 
 ,l/o)7//;o>wyf, 4867-8; Talbot, 5196-5204, 
 
 ■ough, Butler, 5139-48, 5153-5. 
 
 114G2-.3, 11516-8. Jkdlyroan, 4751-2, 4861-2. Maryhoroui 
 5207-9. Wicklow, Brownrigg, 1369G-9, 13706-7. Maryhon 
 
 lin, 4612-50. ' Wickloi", V.rownngg, 13696-9, 13706-7; Maing.i.y, 137G8-71, 13775-6. Mary- 
 horovqh, Cassan, 5120, 5123-6. Sligo, Clarke, 6764. Castlebar, Conry, G252-6 ; O'Connor, G713, 
 6727. Carrick-on-Shannon, Dawson, 6946, 6948-50. Longford, Stritch, 7709. Sligo, Tucker, 
 6740-1. Belfast, Wilson, 10547-8.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 445 
 
 Commhis, Mrs. Penelope, wiilow, a nursetcnJcr, niotlier of two boys who Iiavo been in Bishop Foy's 
 scliool, Waterforfl : — Evidence of, coni])liiining of the foo<l of tlic boya, and of abuses in manage- 
 ment, 17107-3.3, 171GS-74. 
 
 For particulars of hor coni])laiiit, see under Wntri-ford, and cvidonou of witnesses Jhdts, Harvey, 
 Palmer, Patdson, lloclw, and the autlioritios of the school, under same head. 
 
 Comin'mionrrs of C/mri/dble JJoiitdi'ins and Bequests ; Inquiry in Dublin ; I'hndinre of Ifcrcides 
 APDonnell, Fti(i., Secretary of the Ijoard, in rof(!rcnec to school eudowincuts wiiich liave been mis- 
 applied, concealed, or lost, and as to non-interference of the Eoard in iliU'ereut cases, :i31C8 ct seq. 
 
 Causes of non-interference of the Board; state of legislation ; constitution and powers of the 
 Board, and defects tlionMU, 2:U71-ii : no power to interfere until after the abuse has been com- 
 mitted, and the donation willilield, concealed, or misapplied; legal dillienllies, 23172-3, 23177--9; 
 want of ade<iuate moans of infonuiitiou, and of local publicity ; the Gazette a place to keep a secret ; 
 sugi'estions, 23174, 23203-0. 
 
 Course and practice of the Board, 23172-3, 23175 el seq. DifTercnco between powers of Board 
 of Ciiarities in England, and that in Ireland ; defective powers of the latter for compelling infor- 
 mation, and c()nsei|nent abeyance of Charities, 23I81-G. Further evidence as to defective jmwers 
 of the Board, 23188 et seq. 
 
 Commissioners of Education Inqaivi/, appointed 17SS ; their report of 171)1, now first published, 
 ;^a(7fs 341-379. 
 
 Commissioners of Ediicatioii in Irchmd, {Q\avc-sivixi Board): General Inquiry as to management of 
 schools and endowments under, 21078 et seq., 23549 et seq., 23704 et seq., 2389G et seq. 
 
 Eeideiiee of Wm. Cotter Kyle. LL.D., Secretary of the Board, 10447-51, 21078 et seq., 21345 et seq , 
 23736-7, 23739 et seq., 23704 ct scej., 23075 et seq.. 2398C. Evidence of, as a Governor of King's 
 Hospital, or Ciiarles II. 's Blue Coat f^chool, Dublin, as to that institution (see Oxmanlown), 
 22561 et seq. 
 
 His duties as Secretary of the Board; nianagonieut ami expenses of the office, jiaid from 
 the Consolidated Fund, 210S0-8S, 21452-66, 21468-71. Law Agents, paid by costs, 21089-01, 
 21093. Land Agents, and names of, for the several estates, paid by a per ceutage, 21001-G. 
 Lists of books of the Board in his possession, 10447-51, 21221. 
 
 Acts constituting the Board ; and jurisdiction of Commissioners ; descrijition of schools under 
 their management, and of schools exempted from it, 21088, 21090-108. 
 
 Constitution of the Board ; ex-officio and appointed members, honorary ; uncertainty of number, 
 inconsequence of change in the representation of the Universit}', 21126-31, 21138-40. Meetings 
 of the Board; uncertain ami irregular attendance of Commissioners, and consequent incon- 
 veniences, 21092, 21132-7, 21141-50, 21247-S. Nature of business of the Board, and mode 
 of transacting it, 21151-63; more time devoted to management of the estates than to the 
 sehocds, 2I1G2-3; and to Royal Schools than others, 21296. Unsuitability of the constitution of 
 the Board, 21161; necessityfor paid Commissioners, 21202. Difficulties in the management of the 
 school affiiirs, from fluctuation in rents, 21164-5; difficulties in the case of Raphoe Schoid Estate, 
 Co. Donegal; lawless character of district; police barrack built out of funds of the Board, 
 21166-74; police barrack also built on Dungannon Estate, because of the agent having been fired 
 a,t, 21175-7. 
 
 Defective powers of the Commissioners, for proper management of schools; defective mode of 
 appointment of masters, who are nj.pointcd independently of the Commissioners, and are not removed 
 or suspended by them ; no provision for promotion ; no superannuation ; necessity for it, 21178-86, 
 21345-7. 
 
 No inspectors of schools, 21098 ; nor means of paying them, 21181 ; necessity of inspection for 
 well-being of the schools, 21100; occasional inspection by the Commissioners, but exceptional, 
 and masters left pretty much to themselves, 21101-3. Suggestions as to a system of inspection, 
 and appointment of competent paid officers for the purpose, under the Commissioners or central 
 authority, and inspection by the Conur.issioners or central authority also, 21190-207. 
 
 As to returns respecting the scliook, 21109-25. Half-yearly returns by masters, and use made 
 of them Jjy the Commissioners, 21111-25, 21194-8. Other returns handed in, 21347-51. No 
 code of rules for schools or masters, except those for Eoyal Schools, 21187- 9. 
 
 Free pupils; no general rules laid down by the Commissioners; I'cgulation issued to Armagh Royal 
 School; question as to ailmisslon of free scholars, and nneertainty on the subject, 21208-14. Cir- 
 cular of Commissioners, in 1830, as to free places in Diocesan Schools, 21215-21. Correspondence 
 with Grand Jury of Limerick as to Limerick Diocesan School, 21225-7. 
 
 More attention given by the Commissioners to the Royal Schools than to the Diocesan Schools, 
 the former being consi<lered more immediately under their control, 21162-3, 21222-4,21206. 
 Royal schools more of boarding schools than day schools; causes; ought to be made more day 
 schools tlian tiicy are at present ; and suggestions for impruvcment of the schools, aud course of 
 instruclion in them, 21260-0. 
 
 School scholarships in Enniskillen Pioyal School ; mode of apiiointnient to them, and results, 
 21228-32. 
 
 University exhibitions or scholarships in connection with Roj-al Schools; beneficial efl'cct on schools 
 to which attached ; 21232-7. Provided out of the funds of the particular school, 21238-0. Estates 
 of the schools should not be allocated to the particular schools; would make a common fund, and 
 open the exhibitions to general competiticn, 21241-3. Further evidence in reference to exhibi- 
 tions, and suguestions respecting same, and their efJ'ect on course of instruction in schools and 
 collejies, Woolwich, Jcc, 21244-59, 21275. 
 Vol: II. 3 M
 
 446 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Commissioners of Education, Dr. Kyle, — continued. 
 
 As to religious restrictions supposed to prevent Roman Catholics from entering Royal schools ; 
 rule on the subject against making attendance on religious instruction compulsory where objected 
 to; case of Dungannon Royal School in 184S, under Rev. Dr. Darley, 21277-87. 
 
 Diocesan schools; several not in operation: Cloj'ne, Dublin, Glendalough, Wicklow, Cashel, 
 Ardfert, and others; causes of their being in abeyance ; as to non-appointment of masters; incon- 
 veniences of present system, 21297-310, 21352-0 ; unsatisfactory state of diocesan schools, 21311 ; 
 difficulties in providing and maintaining schoolhouscs in present state of the law, 21312-7 ; salaries 
 small and badly paid; unsatisfactory system of payment by contributions from clergy, 21318-9, 
 213C8-9 ; want of power to remedy the evils, 21320-2 ; further evidence as to defective system of 
 diocesan schools, want of visitation, itc, 21323-6, 31300-71. 
 
 Accounts of school estates and arrears thereon inquired into : — Cavan School Estate and 
 arrears, 2138G-92 : Enniskillen School Estate and arrears, 21393-404 : Dungannon School Estate, 
 no arrear, 21405-8, 213986 ; difterences of management on the different estates, 21409-24. 
 
 Accounts of the Board ; manner in which tliey are kept, 21425-49 ; better kept than any'laid 
 before the Commissioners, and reflect great credit ; but susceptible of improvements pointed out, 
 21450-1, 21468-72. 
 
 Audit : accounts never audited; it was never the custom of the Board, 21467. 
 
 Accounts and law costs, 21372 et seq. — Law agents attend every meeting of the board, but 
 their accounts thirteen years in arrear; solicitors postponed furnishing their bills of costs, because 
 they considered the board not in funds, 21372-G. Has not any idea of what the amount of costs 
 due may be, 21379, 21385 ; charges not brought forward in annual accounts, 21378 : no payment 
 on account during the thirteen years, 21380. 
 
 Statement as to the Solicitor Mr. Fetherston's bills of costs and the large amount of bis charges 
 for notices to quit on Dungannon Estates, 23736-7, 23739 et seq.; as to the practice and policy of 
 such notices, 23739 et seq., 23975 et seq. Taxation of costs of the solicitors or law agents ; charges 
 for notices to quit, 23849-63 ; as to the requisition for taxation, 23974-85. 
 
 Illegal payments of law costs connected with estate of one school ont of funds of another ; 
 perfectly illegal, 23794-822 ; no audit, 23823-31; course of practice in regard to payment of 
 law costs and other matters, 33832-5 ; charges for costs upon Consolidated Fund ; want of funds of 
 the schools, 23836-48. 
 
 Costs of visitation ; charged to charity estates ; questionable propriety or legality of so doing, 
 23765-73 ; expenses of one visitation borne by Lord Erne, 23774-6 ; mode of charging these 
 expenses, a check to visitations being sought for; should be charged on Consolidated Fund, 
 23777-92. 
 
 Distribution of schools over the country ; not adapted to educational wants, and might be 
 improved, 21337-9. 
 
 Combination of classical with English and scientific instruction in same schools ; without diffi- 
 culty ; a matter of arrangement only, 21268-9. 
 
 Libraries, museums, laboratories, lectures, and professors of natural and applied science, 21270-4. 
 
 Want of a Central Board, giving their undivided attention, with sufficient powers and funds, for 
 remedy of existing defects, and for due administration of a general system of school education, 
 21340-3. 
 
 Evidence of William Wann, Esq., Agent of the Dungannon School Estate, under Clare-street 
 Commissioners of Education, 23865-985; letter from, as to management of estates, and return of 
 abatement of rent, premiums and loans to tenants, 23986 ; correspondence of, with Mr. Murland, as 
 to extravagant bills of costs of solicitor, Jlr. Fetherston, 23549-50. 
 
 Notices to quit usually prepared and filled up by .agent, not by solicitor, 23868-9. Never heard 
 of a charge of 5s. per notice being made by an attorney, 23870-1 : if printed, the cost of inserting 
 the name would not be more than a few ponce, 23872. Further evidence as to notices to (juit and 
 extravagant amount of charges of solicitors of the Commissioners for the same, 23873 et seq. 
 Evidence as to the policy of serving notices to quit periodically, and as to customary practice in 
 this respect, and its effect as to insecurity of tenure, 23886 ct seq. ; as to alleged refractory tenants, 
 and alleged difficulty of getting rents, 23889-90 et seq. Costly and liar.-b measures, 23934-53, 
 2397G ; peaceful character of the district in which the estate is situate on which these measures 
 were practised, 23935-9. Further evidence as to ejectments on Dungannon School Estate ; and 
 recent discontinuance of the practice of serving notices to quit on tenants not in arrear, 23891, 
 23894, 23901 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Godfrey Fcthcrslon, Esq., Solicitor to the Clare-street Commissioners of Education in 
 Ireland, 23551-733, 23738. 
 
 Solicitor also of Erasmus Smith Board, 23553, 23635-8, 23988-24084, 24093 et srq. ; (for 
 evidence relating to proceedings under Erasmus Smith Board, sec Erasmtts Smith Board.) 
 
 Solicitor likewise of Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, 23555. 
 
 Attends meetings of Clare-street Board ; always summoned for every Board meeting, 23557-9. 
 Charges for his attendance, 23560. Duties at the Board ; Bdard not always at law ; when 
 there is no law business, does notiiing; had nothing to do at more than half the meetings; 
 during the last thirty years had no law business to attend to at Iialf the meetings, 23562-72 : 
 charges for attendance, fnmi Gs. 8(/. to .£1 \?is. id.: average charge, .£1 for each attendance, 
 23573-8. 
 
 Custody of title-deeds ; has no schedide of them, 23579-8G. 
 
 As to constrnction of term " residue" in Acts of 53 Oeo. HI. c. 107, and 3 Geo. IV. c. 79, as 
 to Claro-strcct Board; necessity for yearly balance of accounts, 23587-96. No Bills of Costs 
 furnisiied for nearly fourteen years, though ordered by the Board to bo furnished anuually, 
 23597-603.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 447 
 
 Commissioners nf Education, Jlr. Fetliorstou, — coiitiiuicd. 
 
 Excessive charges for fillin;,' iin notices to quit on tlie Diingannon Scliool Estate; and corres- 
 pondence on the suliject, 2.'5G04-7. Has not the sliglitest (hnibt tiiat Mr. Blacker, the late agent, 
 woiihl have fille<l ii|) the notices as accurately as himself, 23G12, 23(320. No clifiiculty, 23G14. A 
 charge of £133 1-lv. for lilling notices to quit, at 7s. for each, 23G22 : forms settlcil hy Counsel, 
 and had merely to Ik; liili.-d up with names, 23G13-5. A clerk in the oflice might have filled 
 up printed forms, aiul .i;7G7 would have been saved, 23GG7-8. Further evidence in regard to 
 other similar cases, 23GG1 et seq. 
 
 Letters from Mr. Blacker pointing out unnecessary expense and inconvenience of the practice 
 adopted, 23G2.5-27. 
 
 Further evidence a.s to liigli and unnecessary charges for costs of notices to quit, 23628-34, 
 23G3'J-4:4 : and as to the uii])rccedented, impolitic, and cruel policy of serving notices on tenants 
 indiscriminately, though not in arrear, 2.3G4.0-7. Does not know who is responsible for ordering 
 208 tenants to be served with notice to ([uit who were not one farthing in arrear, at a cost of £91 
 out of the charity, 23G4S-51. Cannot give an explanation of such a policy, and cannot justify 
 it, 230.54-6 : since discontinued, 23653. 
 
 Minute of Board on the charges for costs, ordering taxation, altering the practice, and putting 
 an end to attendance of solicitor at the Board's meetings, 23G85-95. 
 
 As to irregularity of charging expenses to School Estates which should have been charged to 
 Consolidated Fund as part of office expenses, 23697 etseq.; charges for preparing instruments of 
 deputation for visitation, which could bo jirepared by any clerk of ordinary cajiacity, 23700-10. 
 Expense of a visitation paid by Lord Erne, 23712-6. Other cases referred to, 23719 et seq., 23738. 
 
 Schools in connection with Clare-street Board : 
 
 Armagh, Royal School, 9335 et seq. 
 
 Ballyroan, Queen's Co., (Preston endowment,) 4746 et seq. 
 
 Banagher, Pioyal School, King's Co., 5263 tt seq. 
 
 Cavau, Royal School, 7826 et seq. 
 
 Dungannon, Royal School, Co, Tyrone, 11720 el seq. 
 
 EuniskillcU; Royal School, Co, Fermanagh, 11880 etseq. 
 
 Kilbricken, Queen's Co., 4915 et seq. 
 
 Lifford, Grammar School, Co, Donegal, 11115, 11405 el seq. 
 
 Mulhighniore, Co, Arniagh, 9065 et seq. 
 
 Navan School, Co. Mcath, 4746 ei seq. 
 
 Raphoe, Royal School, Co. Donegal, 11203 et seq. 
 
 And see under Na7nes of Schools or Localities. 
 
 Committees ; see under Governing Bodies. 
 
 Competition, Examination, and Encouragements: — ■ 
 
 For ])upils ; see under Appointments, Exliihiiions, Prizes, (tc. 
 
 For masters ; see the same heads, and under Masters, Pensions, Promotion, Qualijications, &c. 
 
 For public appointments in civil, military, and naval services ; see under Appointments. 
 
 Complaints : — 
 
 Of application of endowment, and management, of Arniagh and other Royal Schools ; see under 
 Arnuujh and other Royal Schools. 
 
 Of management of school ; Midleton, Swords, Waterford, &c. ; see under nanies of respective schools. 
 
 Of management of estates ; see Estates. 
 
 Of constitution of existing governing bodies and management of schools under them ; see 
 Commissioners of Education, Erasmus Smith Board, Incorporated Society/, &c., and under names of 
 particular schools. 
 
 Connolly foundation, Celbridge, Co. Kildaro ; boarding school, under Incorporated Society ; Rev. 
 Mr. Ardill's evidence, 20601 : (see under Incorporated Society.) 
 
 Connor, Down, and Dromore, Bishop of; see Doion. 
 
 Connor, Du:ni, and Dromore District Diocesan ScLool, Dowupatrick ; see Downpatrich. 
 
 Conroi), Rev, Jolin, Perpetual Curate, Patron or Superintendent of Erasmus Smith English school at 
 Muiti" (Co. Londonderry), 10593, 10G55, 10715 ; evidence of, 10715 et seq., pages 310, 312, 
 Visitation of the school and examination of the children ; no examination for fifteen or eighteen 
 mouths, 1071G~32. Rules of Erasmus Smith supposed to preclude visitation and examination by 
 other than the prescribed authorities ; objection to visiting and examining by Rev. Mr. Berkeley, 
 a Presbyterian minister, 10733-8. Numbers of Established Church and Presbyterian pupils 
 respectively, 10739-45. Has not the least objection to Mr. Berkeley visiting the school, and 
 examining Presbyterian children; comi.laint, and correspondence with Erasmus Smith Board on 
 the subject, 10738-50. — See further, under Muff. 
 
 Conry, James, Master Extraordinary for Court of Chancery, and a Commissioner for taking affidavits, 
 Castlebar, Co, Ma3'o ; Evidence of, as to general state of education, and want of adequate provision 
 for same in the county, G233-57. * 
 
 Does not agree th.at education is very low in the county, 6233. The National Schools of great 
 benefit to the county ; education in them enables young men to take situations as clerks ; instances j 
 not necessary to bring them from other places, 6236-48. 
 
 A deficiency of schools for the middle classes, 6250 : a good classical and commercial school, the 
 pupils paying about £5 a-ycar only, would be supported sufliciently in Castlebar, 6252-6. 
 
 Control of endowments, estates, and schools ; see Governing Bodies, Inspection, &c. 
 
 Vol. II. 3 M 2
 
 448 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Convent ScJiools : 
 
 Calieiciveen, 2319 ct seq. (see Cahercivcen). 
 
 Kilkenny; female orphan scliool, at Convent, p;iven up to Board of Guardians, 148. 
 
 Tralee, 2329. 
 
 (b'ee under Names of respective Localiiies or Instihdions. 
 
 Coiii/nr/Iiam, Lord ; endowment by, for a school in Kilmealy parish, Co. Clare, 3810-2 (see KUmcali/.) 
 
 Coolba)iayhei; Woodbrook, Queen's Co. : 
 
 Err.jjmns Smith School or endowment ; no longer in operation, 5113, 5 11. 5. 
 
 Coolvaiii, I ^ ■ n . 
 
 „ , . ' ; Uueen s Co.: 
 Col era in e, j ^ 
 
 School endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fnnd ; no longer in operation, 5113, 5116. 
 
 Cooper, Eev. Joseph, Head Master of Down, Connor, and Dromore District Diocesan School, at Down- 
 patrick ; Evidence of, 102G3-10283, 10299. No boarders, 102Go-G. No free scholars ; has had no 
 application for three years, never refused any, 102G7-9 ; applied to Secretary of Clare-street Board 
 TiS to his liability as to free scholars; being under obligation to take them, thought high terms for 
 others inconsistent, 10299. 
 
 Course of instruction embraces a great number of subjects, though he has no assistant; classics, 
 elementar_y paits of geometr}-, French, and book-keeping; fits j'oung men to enter college, and 
 Apothecaries' Hall, where some French is required, and for commercial life, 10273-7. 
 
 Another classical and commercial school in the town, giving a very general course of iustruc- 
 tion ; under management of committee, a rival to his ; overtures to amalgamation, on condition 
 cf his taking their principal assistant, rejected, 10278-81. 
 
 Corawcilleen, Drumrellly, Co. Leitrim : 
 
 Report of 1825 : aid from Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; £30 to John Godley, in consideration of 
 making over an acre of land, and subscription of £20 for a school under that fund, G914, C916. 
 
 Evidence of the Rev. AVilliam A. Percy, Rector of Kiltoghert : school in existence, and thinks in 
 operation, G917-8 ; (sec also Dnnnreill;/ school.) 
 
 Cork, Archdeacon of, Venerable Samuel Kyle, Visitor of Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork ; 
 Evidence of, as to management and regulation of the school, 17G01, 1SG97 et seq. 
 
 Periods during which the school has been altogether closed, 18708-11; no record of any visita- 
 tion of the school from 1830 to 1847 ; ineflicicnt state of school previous to 1847 when Mr. Turpin 
 resigned the mastership, 18712-20. Resolution for annual or more frequent visitation then adopted 
 in 1847 ; four visitations from 1847 to 1854, seven years, 18721-34. 
 
 Evidence in reference to the course taken on Mr. Allin's complaints in 1854, and the visitation 
 thereon, 18735 et seq. (see under Mid'elon). School since well conducted, 18777. 
 
 As to improvement of constitution of Board of Trustees, and central supervision and visitation 
 required, 18777-9. 
 
 Corh, Co. and City of : lunuiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken 
 at Cork and M'idlcton, 1141 el seq., 1694 et seq., 17601 et seq., 18697 et seq. 
 
 Blue Coat School, or St. Stephen's Hosj>ital, 1366 et seq. 
 
 Christian Brothers' Schools ; Fcacock-lane, &c., 1242 et seq. 
 
 Diocesan School, for Cork, Cloyne, and Ro-ss, 1180 et seq., 1C91. 
 
 Green Co.at Ho.spital School, 1694 et seq. 
 
 Moses Deane's Endowments : 
 
 Christ Church ; not in operation, 2032 et seq. 
 St. JIary Shandon, 2032, 2259, et seq. 
 St. Nicholas, 2032, 2038, ct seq. 
 St. Peter, 2032, 2164, rfw?. 
 
 General State of Education and provision for s.T.nic, 2092. 
 
 BLUE COAT SCHOOL, OR ST. STFPHEN's HOSPITAL, CORK. 
 
 Iiiformatlon fr.-rm Reports of inrvhus Iiuinirks, &c., 13GG-1373. Variously reported as endowed, 
 anno 1699, by William North, Esq., lion. William North, Baron North, or Dr. Edward North, Bishop 
 of Killaloe : endowment, houses and lands in liberties of Cork, conveyed to MaytU'and Ccir[ioration as 
 trustees, for erection of schoolhousc, to be called St. Stephen's Hospital of Cork, with ilwiUing for 
 lua.sler, an<l for support an<l education therein of Protestant boys to be nominalcd by them ; Protestant 
 schoolmaster to be appointed by trustees, who arc to have the government and supervision of the insti- 
 tution ; power given to them to let the houses and lauds upon lease, not exceeding twenty-one 
 j'cars, or for twenty-one years and no longer, 13G7, 1372, 1374-5. Alleged mismanagement of 
 endowment : in 1707, lauds leased for ever by the Corporation, under a further deed, as alleged, in 
 1705, from Mr. North, who, however, had parted with his interest by the deed of 1699 ; observa- 
 tions of Conimissiouer.-i, 1812 and 1833, upon abuse of the powers of the Corporation, referred to 
 Boaril of Charitable Bequests for investigation, 1368-9, 1372. Income of the endowment under 
 the leases made by tlio Corporation, variously stated at £457 16s., per annum; about £420; 
 £422 ll.«. 9c/. ; £800 from lauds .and other sources, 1368, 1371, 1372, 1373 ; lands leased for 
 ever at about £400 a year, uniformly- reported to be wortii from £5,000 to .£6,000, or many tbou- 
 fiands, a-ycar, 13C7, 1372, 1373 : Agent states the occujiying rents to bo above £7,000 at i)rcsent, 
 1510. 
 
 Deed also provides for Exhibitions for four students, with preference to natives of Cork, to Trinity 
 College ; the otlier scholars to be apj)renticed to trades, 1367. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Return from Agent of trustees, Mr. Chattcrton, 1374-6.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 449 
 
 Corlc: — Blue Coat ScluoJ, or Si. S/epIicn's Hospital — coiitinuoJ. 
 
 Ori^ici'itil <lcc(l from William North, Esq., anno 1G&9, sot out, 1374-5. 
 
 Koturn states tliccliarity was founded under deed of 1G09, and does not allude to any subsequent 
 deed giving the alleged further leasing powers, 1.374, 137C. 
 
 Eohlence iif Abraham Thomas Ch/itlerloit, Es((., Land Agent, Receiver, and Solicitor of St. Stephen's 
 Hospital, 1377-1429, l;J29-35, 1553, 155G, 15G2-3, 1573. His aiq.ointuient, 1377, 1401-3. 
 
 llental has renia,ino<l the same .since 1705 ; produce-! last receiver's account, in LS51, when ho 
 was discharged, 1377-8J. Value of lands as comjiared with the income of the institution from them ; 
 income, less income tax, not much uKirc than £.'!5(( ; hut occupying rent, over £7,000, 1510. 
 
 Deeds, how ko])t ; jiroduccs copy of original grant of 1G99, l)ut lias not a copy of second deed of 
 1705, an aljstract of which is in the clc])ository of the hospital, 1383-4. Diliiculty and delay in 
 tracing and oljtainiiig the deeds now deposited there ; where found ; has not seen the second deed 
 1385-1400. Afterwards |)roduces copy of deed of 1705, authorizing further leases for twenty-one 
 years, and a third deed, anno 1707, gi^'ing power to corporation as trustees to make fee-farm "rants, 
 1503-4, 1515-G. Leases all in perpetuity, no terminable leases, 1408-11. Lands in immediate 
 vicinity of Cork, 1-111. 
 
 Ilentalandaecoi.ntskcpt, and state of the latter, 1412-25, 1428-9, 1504-12, 1529-35. Accounts 
 not settlc<l or amlitcd by the trustCL-s, 1514, 15G2. The exhibitions, £20 a-year, for four students 
 in Trinity College, the only payment made without an order of trustees, 1512-3. 
 
 Inspection of schoolhouso, 1517-18. 
 
 Part of duty of schoolmaster to act as secretary of trustees and keep the minutes, 1404-7 : 
 boarding of the boys by him, 1505. 
 
 Nomination of pupils, by trustees in rotation, minuted, 142G-7 : five a quorum, 15G3. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. James Carr Somerdlle, master of the school, and secretary of the trustees, 
 1430-1502, 15G4 ■1G71. Being master, is secretary, under Lord Chancellor's scheme, without 
 extra salary; books kept by him, 14G8-81. Salary, £25 Irish by deed ; and allowances, £1G for 
 each boy for clothes and food ; £10 for stationery ; £10 for teaching boys singing, 1430--5, 14G0. 
 
 Eighteen boys ; from three months to five or six years in school ; all Protestants, and sixteen of 
 thcm'orhpaus, 1491-3, 1411-2. 
 
 No printed rules, 1436-40. No fixed dietary; dieted by master; diet specified, 1443-7, 14G0. 
 Appropriation of apartments, 1448-51, and internal arrangements of schoolhouso, lavatory arrange- 
 ments, school hours, and meal times, 1565-81. 
 
 Course of instruction and distribution of time; nine hours a-day for study, altogether, 15G5-83. 
 English education; details of it; ages of bo3's, and length of time in .school, 1584 cl seq. : no 
 instruction in book-keeping or mensuration, 1595-6 ; progress in reading and English grammar, 
 bad, 1617, 1619, ctscq. 
 
 No prizes or stimulus to diligence, 1631, 16G9-71. Punishments, 1632-1640. Some singing 
 taught, 1641-7. Supply of books and maps, not sufficient, for want of funds, 1603-7. As to suc- 
 cess of boj^s in after-life ; generally turn out well, 1654-65. 
 
 Hands in Chancellor's scheme for management of school, register, and minute books, 1564. No 
 special book for entering complaints if any were made, 1482-90, 1494-8. 
 
 Inspection by trustees, who assemble quarterly, 1461-5, 1499-1502 ; examinations by trustees 
 defective, 1598-1603. Parish clergyman catechizes once a-weck ; does not inspect establishment, 
 1461-6-7. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. llenrij Xeioenhairi, one of the trustees, 1519-15C1. As to manner in wliich the 
 financial business is transacted and the ;iccounts are kejit; an account of receipts ami lodgments by 
 the agent, but no account of iricome and disbursements by trustees, 1519-36 : audit, 1551. 
 
 Quarterly meetings of trustees, attends regularly, rarely at other times, looks after the school, 
 never had occasion for complaint to trustees, 1537-9. School occasionally visited bj' other trustees, 
 1541-3. 
 
 Appropriation of apartments ; large room vacant, and boys sleep in smaller room, 1544-8. Fades 
 for management of school, 1552-6. 
 
 Master appointed without public notice of vacancy ; trustees considered no one would better 
 manage the school than one trained up by the }irevious master, 1557-8. The master states he was 
 a relative of the previous mastei-, and resided some years in the establishment before his appointment, 
 1437-8; was assistant to him, but not a schoolmaster ; received a classical education, 1648-51. 
 
 CHKISTIAN BEOTHEHS' SCHOOLS ; PE.\COCK-LANE, WITH BR.\NCnES IN BLARNET-LASE AND SFLLIVAS's- 
 
 QUAY, COKK. 
 
 Infiniiation from previous Reports, .tc — A Roman Catholic Free School, built and supported by 
 subscription and voluntary contribution.s, with an endowment bequeathed in 1834 by John Rarry, 
 
 Present I nqinry. — Eeturu from the Superior, Mr. Leonard, of the endowment, incon-.e, and number 
 of pui>ils, itc. ; eilucation altogether izratuitons. Income, £369 ; after deductions, net income, £243. 
 Number of jnipils from 1,100 to 1,170, exclusive of Sunday schools ; altogether about 1,300 day 
 scholars, 1242. 
 
 Evidence of Jmnn^ Bernard Diir/f/an, Esq., one of the teachers of the school, 1243-1354. Chris- 
 tian Brothers conducting the schools, not ecclesiastics, but devote their lives to education of the 
 poor, 1246. 
 
 Extent of establishment, a school in Peacock -lane, and two branches, Blarney-lane and Sullivau's- 
 quay ; ten schoolrooms, at least 1,300 boys deriving advantage from the schools, 124G-50.
 
 450 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Coj-/i- :—Ckristla7i Brothers' Schools, Mr. Duggan's evidence,— continued. 
 
 Extensive general course of instruction, in English, arithmetic, algebra, geometry, mensuration, 
 geography, history, music, drawing, elements of uaturaL iiliilosophy ; religious instruction ; and for 
 the younn-er children, lessons on objects ; sound and not superficial instruction in these branches, 
 1251-12G4, 12SS-91. 1303-4. Scliool hours, nine till three, 12G9. 
 
 Classification of scholars, numbers and instruction in respective classes, ages, and mode of 
 advancement from class to class; 1251-C8, 1305-25. Children from the lower classes, labourers 
 and mechanics ; few, if any, beyond that class, 1270 ; half without shoes, 1278-9 : neglected chil- 
 dren, means of instruction, value of singing and music, 125-1-6, 1292-6 ; importance of drawing, 
 for mechanics; kind of drawing, and how managed, 12G3-7, 1278-9, 1297-1302; advantages of 
 •writing' from dictation, 1322-5 : would deeidedl}- object to iutroduction of classics for the class of 
 boj-s in the school, and reasons, 12326-7. 
 
 Beneficial eft'oct of the education given ; does not disqualify them for a working life ; success 
 and advancement of pupils in after-life ; constant demand for pupils for situations, 1280-7. Great 
 desire for admission to the schools ; insufficient accommodation for all applicants ; on one day 
 obliged to send away 100 children applying for admission ; contrived arrangements for admitting 
 some of them, 1275-7. 
 
 Discipline of the school ; very slight punishments, no flogging, no corporal punishment, except 
 slight slap on the hand, which is sufficient to keep the school in order; severest punishment, taking 
 the boy's jacket ofl": the success of the school owing to religion, which is the whole secret of their 
 power over the boys; attendance remarkably regular, the boys take pleasure in the school, 1342-8. 
 
 Means and difficulty of securing cleanliness ; boys rcciuircd to come clean, and in sonic instances 
 sent home to be washed ; better than washing at school, for sake of the influence at home, 1349-54. 
 
 Limited means with which the course of instruction referred to is given to so many pupils; 
 1,100 actually in attendance, the whole est.ablishment supported by £380 a-year, including all the 
 common expenses of the Brothers for the maintenance of sixteen persons of the community, who 
 give their time gratuitously, 1328-41 : Corporation of Cork formerly gave £50 a-year, but discon- 
 tinued, being considered illegal ; afterwards given by a private benefactor, 1301-2. 
 
 Some of the childien who are able, about 600, pay a halfpenny a- week for pens, ink, slates, and 
 maps, &c. ; average about 25s. weekly, quite sufficient for ordinary expenses, 1270. A lending 
 library also maintained, begun at a penny a-week, now a halfpenny a-weck, voluntary, from those 
 who borrow books, and is self-supporting; about 1,000 books, 1271-4. 
 
 Evidence of William Fagan, Esq., M.p. for City of Cork : testimony to the_ high character of the 
 Christian Brothers' Schools, and high estimation in which they are held; instances of successful 
 results of education there, 1355. EciJcnce of John Francis Maguire, Esq., m.p., and late Mayor of 
 Cork, to same efl'ect as that of Mr. Fagan, 1356-7, 1359-63. Evidence of Bichard Dowden (R.), 
 Esq., Alderniau, to same efl'ect, 1358, 1364-5. 
 
 CORK DIOCESAN SCHOOL : FOR CORK, CLOYNE, AND EOSS. 
 
 Information from jwcviom Beports, etc., 1180. — School heretofore held in private house; applica- 
 tions made to Grand Jury to provide a house, but they did not consider the Act imperative, (see 
 under Diocesan Schools,) and refused : numbers of pupils at various times, 1180. 
 
 Present Inquiri). — Evidence of Bev. Henry James O'Brien, head master of Diocesan School, and 
 Rector of Kilcully, Co. Cork, 1181-1241, 1691-3. On his appointment in 1841, there was no 
 schoolhouse belonging to the diocese ; present house built by himself, and his property ; and on his 
 vacating oflace, there would be none, 1184, 1238-41. 
 
 Forty-six pupils, of whom ten free, 1186-7. Free pupils admitted by himself, at discretion ; 
 limits himself to ten ; gives preference to children of clergymen, the fund coming entirely from the 
 clergy; receives children of artisans, preferring orphans, 1187-90, 1106: no control over him in 
 regard to admission of free pupils, has not been limited ; if he received none, would be entitled to 
 the endowment, 1188, 1196, 1202-10: uses of endowment, £73, education of free pupils, and sup- 
 port of a classical school, which would not otherwise exist, 1200-2, 1209-13. General attendance 
 at classical schools in Cork, 1214-7. 
 
 Course of Instruction ; English and classical, modern languages, and science, 1191 ; classical and 
 commercial education combinevl, without cl.ashing ; thinks it advantageous, diversity of pursuit bene- 
 ficial to the boys, 1220-4 ; utility of modern languages, 1225. Pupils from all classes, mercantile, 
 military, clergy, 1190, 1218; a'fter-life, to business, university, army, 1192: their success, the 
 average of well instructed boys, 1210. 
 
 School books provided by pupils ; other reciuiremcnts by himself, 1193. 
 
 No inspection of the school ; only an annutil return by himself to the Clare-street Commissioners 
 of Education ; no authority over management of the school ever exercised but his own, 1197-9. 
 Thinks a little supervision good and necessary, 1237. 
 
 No Exhibitions attached to the school, 1194, 1226: injurious eft"ects of want of exhibitions, 
 
 1227-9. Would throw open exhibitions to general competition, not confine them to individual 
 
 cstablisliments, 1230. Great advantage to youth and to masters of schools, of throwing open com- 
 mis.sions and ajipointmenls in public service to com])ctition, if examination conducted by men above 
 Buspicion, and wilh<jiit favouritism ; illustration of advantage, 1235-7, 1691-3. 
 
 OEEEN COAT HOSPITAL, CORK. 
 
 Informolionfrmn Bepnrtu of previous Inquiries, 1094-5. — Endowment for a Protestant school, and 
 clotliing the cliildren, Itoys and girls, and for an alms-houso for decayed housekeepers, 1694-5. 
 
 Present Inquiry Evidence of Mr. Bichard Searso7i,m:iHicr:— Three scliools in the establishment, 
 
 —male, female, and infant schools, 1752; has nothing to do with the teaching of the two latter, but 
 looks after the building generally, 1796-8.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 451 
 
 Cork : — Green Coat Hospital, Mr. Searson's evidence, — continued. 
 
 All free pu])ils, :il)0iit twenty-live; no boariicre ; liail formerly, l)iit trustees stopped tliem, 
 1701-0,1755. Jlis s;il:iry and allowances, 1770-8, 17y.'5-5. Falling oil' of lato in riuniborn ; causes, 
 opening of another .school by clergyinan, who went to all the boys and asked them to go to it ; 
 others to naval school at Queenstown, 17;j2-5. Fcnialo and infant schools also fell oil', but now 
 increasing, 17130, 1753-4. Class of ciiildren admitted, chiefly artisans, some orjihans ; admitted 
 on application to master on trial for a month; reported to trustees, who admit or reject, 1740, 
 174G-y, 18GG. 
 
 Course of Instruction ; reading, writing, arithmetic, some geography and grammar, 1 737. 1 781-C ; 
 school iiours, and course of business, play, an<l disci[)line, 1701-75, 1851-4. 
 
 Punishments ; sometimes corporal ])unishmont, by slapping on the hand, with a cane; but never 
 flogs the boys, excejit perhaps a few slai)S over the shoulder with the same cane ; does not consider 
 that Hogging; calls it punishing him ; would not count it flogging, which is a severe beating; no 
 distinction between that and i)unishing ; all the same thing, in diflerent ways of expression, 1010-22. 
 Irregularity of attendance of boys; want of rewards and encouragements, I854-G5, 1923-9. Boys 
 dirty, disagreeable to be near them ; always punishes them for it, 1813-7. 
 
 Condition of school buildings unsatisfactory and unvi^holcsome ; want of repairs ; dirty state of 
 schoolroom, 1803-13, 1818-21 ; reporte<I the want of repairs, etc., to trustees, who thought there 
 were not enough present to make a board, 1799-1801 : a board last Tuesday; ought to have been 
 whitewashed, itc, in July, but no board to order it; going to be done, 1802-3. 
 
 Number and appropriation of rooms and accommodation in the buildings, school, and almsliousc ; 
 forty-four rooms; four apartments for master, four for mistress, three for infant mistress, 1822-5, 
 1839-43. Two rooms for library: does not know what sort of books in it; some for children, 
 Sunday school library, given out to children, though never saw them given out ; others not, belong 
 to trustees or governors, 1826-38. School books supplied by trustees, 1738-9, 1792. 
 
 Constitution of Board of Trustees; annual election by themselve.s, 1G95, 1742-5, 1930. 
 
 Inspection of school, under Church Education Society; their Inspector's attendance irregular; 
 six or eight times in eight years, 1707-20, 172.")-31 : nature of inspection, 1756-9. Secretary of 
 the institution visits almost <laily, 1707, 1721. Examination by other visitors who come in; a 
 deputation from Incorporated Society twice, 1721-2. Trustees inspect often, nearly every board, 
 held once a mon h or oftener, 1723-4 : examination of boys by some of the trustees occasionally, 
 and catechising by Rev. Mr. Lee weekly, 1867-1909. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Lee, Secretary and a Trustee, 1931-5, 1984-2031. Hands in deeds, rental, 
 and accounts, and Act of 4 Geo. I. relating to the school, 1931-5, 1984-6. — Number of apartments 
 Occu])icd by jioor females, and under what authority, 1997-2005, 2030-1. As to supposed 
 withdrawal of property from the original trust, to another purpose, 1992, 200G-13 ; leasing of the 
 property, 2010-20. 
 
 Evidence of William Long, Esq., Treasurer and a Trustee, 1936-1983 : particulars of the estate, 
 income, and expenditure of the institution, 1950-1983. 
 
 MOSES DEANE's endowments : SCHOOLS or ST. NICHOLAS, ST. PETEK, ST. MARY SHANDON, 
 
 CHBIST CHTJBOH, — CORK. 
 
 Information from Reports of previovs Inquiries, &c. — Particulars of endowment left liy Moses 
 Deaue, Esq., in 1720, for four schools in city of Cork, for educating and clothing twenty boys and 
 twenty girls in each : up to 1807-12 only one school established, St. Peter's; interest in the property 
 expired; proceedings for recovery of property by Charitable Bequests Commissioners ; transferred to 
 them and invested in the funds, 2032-4. Schoolhouses and almshouse erected by Moses Deane or left 
 rentfree, 2104-5,2259. 
 
 Disputes with executors, misapplication of much of the rent, and consequent litigation and costs, 
 2035, 2104-6, 2259. Christclmrch and St. Mary Shandon had not received their proportions ; 
 Christchurch endowment not now in operation, 2032-3. 
 
 Amounts of endowments and income from other sources, numbers of pupils, &.c,, of the respective 
 schools, at various times, 2035-7, 2164-6, 2259. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of John Ballard, Esq., Treasurer of the Schools of Moses Deane's 
 Endowment, 2172-2201. 
 
 Income and expenditure ; sources of income, 2173-99. Accounts regularly audited, 2173. No 
 lands or rents; income from stock merely: money formerly in hands of a private individual, and 
 interest not paid; proceedings in Chancery; funds since invested, in trustees, 2185-7. — As to leases 
 and documentary evidence of lands or property, 2188-2201. 
 
 Income of St. Peter's School and its sources, 2170 et seq. 
 
 CHRIST CHURCn SCHOOL, CORK. 
 
 Not in operation, but included in -Moses Deane's endowment, 2032-3, 2035. 
 
 ST. MARY SHANDON SCHOOL, CORK. 
 
 Sources of support; schoolhouse rent free, dividends on money in the funds, under Charitable 
 Bequests Board ; instruction "in reading, writing, arithmetic, grammar, geography, ic," 2259. 
 Evidence of Mr. James Byrne, master of St. Mary Shandon School, 2260-2304. 
 
 Number of boys on roll, thirty four; average from twenty-six to thirty; some free, some pay, six 
 pay; allowed to take payment from ten, never had ten paying, 2202-0. 
 
 Inspection by Church Education Society's Inspector once a-year, and Incorporated Society hold 
 examination for scholarships in Pocock's Institution annually, 2204 ; numbers allotted to Cork, and 
 to this school, 2274-5; schools which compete for the scholarships, 2270-9.
 
 452 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IlIELAXD, COMMISSION. 
 
 Q)yl- : — Moses Beam; Si. Mary Sltandon School, Mr. Byrne's evidence,— continuctl. 
 
 Does not ajiprove of corporal pMnislinient; aililresses liiiiiself to the reason and proper feeling of the 
 pupils, 2280-3. Sng-gests the holding out of prizes foi hoys. Ten hoys allowed clothing; nia.ster 
 may select the most diligent and attentive ; an indncciHent to proper conduct ; helter to clotlie twenty, 
 2292-G, 2298 : increased funds required, to allow of schooUiouse being put in better order, and better 
 salary for master, 2290-1,2298-2304. Ko play-ground for boy.s; a large hall for infant school, not 
 used by boys or girls school, 22G9. 
 
 Evidence of Eev. Ruherl Foky ; 1C72-4, 2305-13.— Visits the schools regularly, generally every 
 day, infant school occasionally ; catechises twice a- week, 2307-8, 2311. Suggestion for improve- 
 ment of entrance to the male school, 2309-10. Documents relating to school, in hand.^ of the 
 Rector, who is absent from Cork for the present, 1C72-4, 20-5, 2312-3. 
 
 ST. NICHOLAS SCHOOL, COHK. 
 
 Information in previous Reports as to nature and amount of endowment, numbers of pupils, <S-c., 
 2032-7. 
 
 Boy.5, girls, and infant schools reported in 1835, and course of instruction for hoys and giria 
 described, 203C. 
 
 Evidence nf Rev. Nicholas C'olthicist Dunscombe, a Trustee and Treasurer of the school, 2038-2081, 
 2090-1, 2315-8. — Account of annual income and expenditure, the latter exceeding the former; 
 advance by himself, 2038-45. Andit of accounts, by different parties at difterent times, ])artly by 
 churchwarden, partly by Jlr. Ballard, the Treasurer of the general charity, £051-7. 
 
 Funds applied to clothing and education, and rent of the school premises, 2001-2 : and formerly to 
 support of an infant school, now discontinued so as to apply the wdiole fund to the testator's design ; 
 infant school now supported by parochial means, 20G1-8. Clothing, how purchased ; not heretofore 
 obtained by contract upon public advertisement, but thinks the suggestion a good one, 205S-G0. 
 
 Satisfactory stato of school, very creditable to the place; its efficiency attributed by him mainly to 
 selection of the master, who was obtained by public a^ivertisement; a great advantage, on any 
 vacancy, to advertise for candidates as widely as possible, 2078-81. 
 
 Visitation of school by clergymen frequent, three or four times a-week ; cateclieti<'al examina- 
 tion weekly; advantages to the school, of regular and fiequent clerical visitation, and its supciior 
 regulation in consec[uence, 20G9-75, 2077. 
 
 Importance of lay agency to assist in school management ;_ committee, constituted of clergy, 
 cliurch wardens, and laymen, 2046: and great advantages of domiciliary visitation of children by 
 laymen and clergy; shortest way to cliildren through the parents at home: necessity of lay 
 assistance ; where merchants and other gentlemen can give time and take an interest, no more 
 important way of doing public good ; wishes lay help, not for religious instruction nor as scrip- 
 ture readers, 2315-8. 
 
 Admission of jmpils, by himself and committee, consist ing partly of lavm en, meeting weekly; mas- 
 ter reports to him any boys applying for admission ; if of the parish, admitted as of course, 2046-50. 
 
 Books ordered by committee or trustees on requisition from the master; sui)plied in Cork, 207G. 
 
 Public baths for access of poor boys of all the schools of the cit}- would he a great advantage ; 
 the children themselves well ])leascd with cleanliness, 2090-1. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. John Hamilton, master of St. Nicholas School: — Salarj', £38 ; fifty-eight 
 scholars on roll ; avcr.age attendance, thirty-nine to forty-one, 2082-G. Boys wear the school 
 clothes on Sundays, not during the week ; given out on Saturd:iy, returned on Monday, 2087. 
 
 Inspector of Church Education Society attends annuiilly, 2088; laymen often visit the school, to 
 see it, but not for examination, 2088-9. 
 
 ST. PETER SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from ^trevious Reports as to nature and amount of endowments from diflorent 
 sources ; part of endowment lost or withheld ; litigation and costs, 21G4-5. 
 
 Schoolhouse erected by Moses Deane, and an almshouse, 21G4-5. 
 
 Number of boys and girl.s, and course of instruction reported in 1835, reading, writing, aritli- 
 melic, English grammar, geography, catechism, and Scriptures; and needlework for girhs, 21GG. 
 
 Evidence of Itev. Frederick Walker, Curate of Aichdeacon Kyle, who is Trustee, 21G7-71, 
 2178-80. Superintends the management of the school and clothing of the children, 21G8 ; j)ur- 
 chascs the clothing and shoes made up, and accounts given to archdeacon, 2178. 
 
 Visits the school every day, 21G7-70 : half-yearly examinations before strangers,and prizes distri- 
 buted, 2171. Commissioners notice with satisfaction the constant attendance of the clergymen, 2171. 
 
 Evidence of John /<W/ac(?, Esq., Treasurer ; as to theenilowmeuts, income anil exjiendllure, 2172- 
 2201. 
 
 Evidence <f Mr. William Bnrhe, master of St. Peter School, 2202-2258. Genci'al account of 
 8ci)ool arrangements; results satisfactory, 220G et Keij., 2257-8. 
 
 Books selected Iiy the clergymen generally, 2210. Public examinations annually in Christ 
 Church, and half-yearly examinations in school, by clergymen and others, 2214, 2219 : success of 
 pupils at annual oxamin:\tions, 2215-8. Boys turn out well, and attend evening schools wdiero 
 occupations |)ermit, 2229. No emolument from the ])upils, 2222. Pupils admitted on note of 
 introduction from a clergyman, if found deserving, 2223. Master was at Tijiperary Erasmus Smith 
 School; rcceiv(;d a nnivr^rsity education himself, and pre]iares boys for it, 2224-(!, 2250-G ; private 
 tuition doe-s not encro;icli on school duties, 2228. Numbers at school have considerably increased 
 since lii^i appointment, 2233-4. 
 
 Girls school. — His wife, schoolnnstress 2207 : generally two or three ladies attend for great(>r 
 part of the day in girl's school, and teach classes, 2208-9, Industrial instruction, needlework,
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 453 
 
 Cork: — Mos^s Deane, St. Peter School, Mr. Burke's evidence, — coutiiiuoil. 
 
 crochet, kiiittiii;;, omaiiiental work, in j>lenty ; ladies and anybody may send it ; main purpose, 
 improvins; tiie cliildrcii ; no per.so.i receives any tiling for it, excojit tlie cliildren, wlio sometimes 
 sell it; tlicy '^ci tlie advantai^e, sometimes 3.«. or -l.v. a-we(d;, earned at scliool and at home ; worlc 
 ■it sclioiil (lurinLC jirescrihed hours only, aii<l not inteifering with other instruction, 'l'l?)i-iO. But 
 a few cliildren attend for workini^' only, rather than he ke])t from school to work at home; not 
 considereil as children of the school, an<l <lo not take part in the other husincss of the scliool, 
 except c'ltccliising on (Saturday, when the clergyman attends ; had hecii furmcily (diildreii of tlin 
 school and reared up from childhood, ZJHI-'J. 
 
 OEXERAL STATE Oil EDHCATION, AND PIIOVISION FOR IT. 
 
 Evidence of Denis Breiinan Bullen, M.D., Vice-President of Royal Cork Institution, Professor in 
 Faculty of Medicine in Queen's College, Cork ; as to gener.al state of education, want of good 
 intermediate schools, hetween the jirimary schools and colleges ; suggestions on the subject and as to 
 necessity fora controlling body over educational institutions gencrally,2092-21G3 : (see andtiiBulle?!.) 
 
 Corporation SchooU : — Ardec, Clogher, Oxmantown, Swords, Watorford, &c. ; see imder respective names. 
 
 Corr, Mv. John : Evidence of, as to instruction of his children in Borough School of Swords, Co. 
 Dublin, 1G310 et seq. — (See Swords.) 
 
 Gorratohher, school in townland of, Co. Cavan : see under Kilmore, Co. Cavan. 
 
 Correll, J\[r. Joseph, Master ; Letter from, as to supposed endowment for Castlemacadam and New- 
 bridge schools, Co. Wicklow ; a private school at Kihpieeny, 13741 : — (see Casthimaaulam.) 
 
 Costs of Litigation : 
 
 Large law costs and accounts of law agents of Clare-street Board : — Evidence of Dr. Kyle, 
 Secretary, 2lo72 d seq., 2lo7G, 21379,2138:5, 21378, 21380, 23730-7,23739 et seq., 23975 et 
 seq.: of William Waiiii, Esip, Land Agent of Clare-street Board, 23873 et seq.: of Godfrey 
 Eetherston, Esq., Solicitor to Clare-street Board, 23597-G03. 
 
 Excessive costs of Erasmus Smith Board : — Evidence of Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., Solicitor to 
 Erasmus Smith's Board, 2-1019-22, 2-4225-7, 240G6-75 : — see under A'rasmiis Smith Board, &c. 
 
 (See Endowments, Litiyation, and under names of particular schools, -<fec.) 
 
 Colter, llev. Joseph Rogerson, Dunmore Ptectory, father of four boys wlio have been at Midleton 
 Endowed School, two there at i)rescnt ; evidence favourable to the school ; high opinion of the 
 religious discipline and instruction at the school, 18917 et seq.: — see Midleton. 
 
 Count;/ Schools : — 
 
 Suggestions as to the establishment of ; Bullen, Cork, 2098. Cullinan, Enuis, 4096-98. 
 M'Cosh, Belfast, 10515 : — see Intermediate Schools. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — 
 
 See under names of individual schools. 
 
 Combined instruction in classics and in commercial or mercantile education in same school ; see 
 under Combination. 
 
 Mixed Schools and Religious instruction of different denominations ; see Religion. 
 
 Course of instruction under Erasmus Smith charter ; see under Erasmus Smith. 
 Cowen, Rev. John, Rathconnell Glebe, officiating clergyman of Knockdrin, Co. Wcstmeath : — 
 Letters from, 13092, 13098 ; evidence, 130'JG, 13100 et seq. Three sites of schools in the parish, — 
 Knockdrin, Reyneila, Turin, 13101-2. 
 
 Knockdrin : school closed in 1855 by Sir Richard Levinge ; schoolhouse and endowment land in 
 Lands of private persons; how occupied, 13098, 1310G, 13112, 13115-8. 
 
 Reyneila : school closed for five or six years ; schoolhouse in existence ; it and laud occupied by 
 private persons, 13098, 13092, 13103-5, 13119. 
 
 Turin : school in possession of Pioman Catholics, and working well, 13092, 13107. 
 
 Clonlost : school not endowed ; supported by annual voluntary subscriptions, 13098. 
 Cox, Cffarles, Esq., .i.p., Co. Leitrim, Agent to Mr. St. George : — 
 
 General state of education and provision for same in Co. Leitrim, G9G5-71, C983-90 Great 
 
 ■want of a school for middle classes, at Carrick-on-Shannon ; many now sending their children to 
 the National School would prefer sending them to such a school, of a higher class, at a moderate 
 rate; including modern languages, 6965-71 : should be a boarding as well as day school, 6968-70. 
 
 A school fin- intermediate education would be cheerfully supported bj' taxation for a district, but 
 not for town alone, 6983 ; and espccialW if a certain number of free places were gr.anted to pupils 
 of merit, selected on competition, 6984-6 : school to be for boarders as well as day scholars, 6989. 
 
 As to endowment for a school at C.arrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim, not now in operation, GSGl- 
 93 ; schoolhouse at present unoccupied 6892. (See under Carrich-onShannon.) 
 
 Cranfeld, Captain, Agent for Lord Powcrscourt : a private school at Kilqueeny, Co. Wicklow (see 
 under Castlemacadam) 13743. 
 
 Crappuijli and Diskard, Co. Monaghan : 
 
 Endowment for s^dioolsat.by llev. Willkam Harris, (ob. 1841,) of Killcvan, Co. JMonaghan; bequest 
 for building four National schools, two in parish of Killevan, two in parish of Aughabog, 9304. 
 Craven, Mrs. Alicia; Endowment by, for Blue Coat School, Limerick; see under LimericL 
 Crean, Robert J., Esq., m-d.. Mayor of Wexford ; Evidence and Return hj, in reference to William 
 Tate's Endowment for Education in Wexford, 42 1, 422, 426-8, 43G-8, 447-53. Great want of means 
 of education in Wexford, at the same time that this large bequest for the jturpose is lying unemployed j 
 existing schools unable from want of funds to att'ord instruction to children applying, 422 : liun- 
 dreds of children applying who c;innot he admitted to schools for want of means, 422, 426-8. 
 No meeting of trustees since he has been ma3'or, 426, -436 ; no correspondence on the subject, 
 nothing done by his predecessors, 42G. 
 Vol. II. 3 N
 
 454 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Crean, Robert J., Esq., m.d., Wexford, — continued. 
 
 Intentions of testator as indicated by his will, 422; would be defeated, in rep;ard to education of 
 children in Wexford, the jT>'eat niajoiity of whom are Koiiian Catholics, if the Rector, Rev. Mr. 
 Elgee's ideas were carried into effect, 447 : desires that the will should be carried out according to 
 its intention, not for Roman Catholics alone, but for the inhabitants generally, without religious dis- 
 tinction, 436-8. — See under Wexford. 
 
 Croftoii, Sir Morgan ; reported endowment by, for a school at Drumreilly, Co. Leitrim, 6933 et seq. 
 (see Drumreilly.') 
 
 Crooks, Miss Catherine, Clogher (Co. Tyrone) ; letter relating to Clogher endowed school, and will of 
 the Bishop, 11655 : — (see Clogher) 
 
 Croohshanls, Rev. Samuel, Ardniore ; letter from, relating to Bishop Hodson's endowment for a school 
 at Elphin, Co. Roscommon, and referring to lands from w hich it is derived, 7225 : — (see Elphin.) 
 
 Crazier, William, Esq., Churchwarden of Swords, Go. Dublin ; as to lands left by Archdeacon Hewitson 
 for education at Swords, 19750 et seq. — (see Swords.) 
 
 Cuba, King's Co. : Banagher Royal School, commonly called Cuba School, 5277 (see Banaglier). 
 
 Cuffe, Mr. Lawrence, formerly resident at Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, 19996-20019, 20314-6 : 
 holds land at Swords ; identifies it with land No. 4 in map of 1797 of "school lands," now appro- 
 priated to other purposes, and in earlier map, 19999-20002 ; further particulars of tenure, rent, 
 &c., 20003-19 ; produces lease and map attached ; identity of premises with school lands, 19922-6, 
 20314-6 :— (see under Strords.) 
 
 Cullinan, Patrick 31., m.d., Eunis (Co. Clare), Coroner, Medical Attendant of Gaol, late Chairman of 
 Town Commissioners ; Letter from, 3835 ; and Evidence of, relative to Erasmus Smith Schools, 
 and constitution of Board of Governors thereof, 3971 et seq., and as to general state of education, 
 4094 et seq. Long residence at Ennis and knowledge of the state of education in that neighbour- 
 hood, 3972-3974. 
 
 Complaint of constitution and conduct of Erasmus Smith Board of Governors, and of manage- 
 ment of Ennis Grammar School ; heads of complaint enumerated, 3835. 
 
 As to Ennis Grammar School, thinks it does not appear in competition with others so advan- 
 tageously as it ought, if the master, Dr. King, had efficient or first-class assistants ; arrangements 
 inadequate, and charges too high : a great many gentlemen about Ennis send their sons elsewhere, 
 4081-2-3. Thinks the public derive little advantage from the school, 3835, 3989, 4002, 4011, 
 4017, 4081. Is sure, if there were no endowment, there would be a school of a high class in 
 Ennis ; an admirable field for a first-rate school, 4017- 4020: account of other schools in the locality 
 and of distinguished scholars from them, in Trinity College, 4021-4028. 
 
 Free pupils. — Not much benefit derived from the endowment for free pupils, judging by the 
 result; never knew a free pupil enter Trinity College, — a reproach to the system ; very few have 
 obtained a complete education ; do not continue to finish their education ; number on foundation 
 very small, 4013-5. 
 
 Admission of free pupils should be thrown open to cleverest boys, by competition ; would raise 
 the character of the scholars, 4016, 4081. Suggests greater encouragement to free pupils, and their 
 admission on the foundation by concursus, and examination for admission : at present some degree 
 of reproach attaches to being a free pupil without merit ; not treated properly, disparaged in the 
 eyes of other boys, 4083, 4086-7 : would make it a badge of merit ; would select the boys on open 
 examination and competition, from any school or class of persons, with or without means ; not 
 likely to be abused ; free pupils would be more encouraged, and badge of reproach would cease ; if 
 any person of means enough to pay availed hin)self of the advantage, it would tend to raise the position 
 of free pupils and take away reproach ; for the trifling emolument would not exclude any, 4088-93. 
 
 Exhibitions. — Inadequate value of exhibitions attached to Erasmus Smith Schools (^£8 Irish) : 
 thinks the manner in which these small exhibitions could be made available for promoting educa- 
 tion in the country would be by reducing the number (now thirty or thirty-two), and increasing 
 the value of them, 3823-0, 3808, 4080 : (and see evidence of Dr. King, under Ennis). 
 
 Board of Governors. — Considers the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools badly and 
 most unsuitably constituted ; consisting of a number of high official persons, who do not attend 
 or discharge the functions, and of a groat many other members : no member of the Board has 
 any local connection with the scliool, or any knowledge of its discipline, ])rogress, or management ; 
 no ex-ofiicio Governor attends, except on one ilay last year the I'rovost of Trinity College, which 
 receives a large amount of the funds from the Governors : evils of nominal governors ; thirty-five alto- 
 gether, mostly absentees ; some in Canada and all over the world ; a screen for acts of others ; a 
 myth, and non-existent, 4003-4, 4007-9. Would not have anybody nominally connected with the 
 Board who is not an acting member, 3976. Impossible to expect justice from the Board of Gover- 
 nors, as at present constituted ; a feeling that justice has not been done to the school at Ennis, as 
 to which the Governors can have no reliable information ; school managed for the priv.ate interest 
 of head master, the public interest being quite a secondar}' matter ; and no control over him; the 
 Board exercise no educational supervision whatever, 3987-3989, 4000-1. 
 
 Governors exercise their functions negligently and incniciciitly, 3835, 3995-6; have never 
 made a law for the rogulalioii of the school for 200 years ; the laws then made still in force ; (sec 
 rules or bye-laws in Ciiartcr, under Krasmns Smitli) ; considers them obsolete ; no inspection 
 for tliirty years, except that an agent visited the school within the last three years, 3996-8, 
 4002, 4000. 
 
 Local Superintendence of Schools under the Board : — without proper inspection and confidential 
 and reliable information as lo state and progress of the schools, Governors totally incompetent to 
 exercise sufficient control over them, 3977 : ought to provide; means of informing themselves pro- 
 perly as to the schools, and not doing so exercise their functions negligently and inelliciently, 
 3798 : injury fr m that negligence might be corrccteil hy having pro])(;rly qualified and paid local 
 8U])erintendents; persons who should have some interest and responsibility cither by payment or 
 by local tics, 3980.
 
 INDP:X to EVJDENCt:. 455 
 
 CuUinan, Patrick M., m.d., Ennis, — continuotl. 
 
 Misapplication (if Funds ; Dr. CuUiuaii's complaints — 
 
 That while the (governors do not pay their masters and assistants enough, they pay a large 
 amount to Trinity College j amounts not illegal but injudicious, 4029,4035-45, 4055-G. 
 
 That the Governors also misapply funds, in supporting at great expense a number of Engliah 
 schools — -a waste that might be usefully applied to other purposes, while there are the National 
 Schools; an indiscreet and injudicious application of funds, 4029, 4047-4054. 
 
 That they also misapply funds in pensions; a misapplication, to pension a master who after 
 receiving it for twenty tlireo years is still in robust health, 4030. The pensions or retiring allow- 
 ances to masters a subject for inquiry; does not appear on face of return made by the Governors 
 that there are any pensions ; returns not satisfactory ; take credit for arrears, rents, rates and 
 taxes, repairs, which are paid by the masters; instances Galway, Droghcda, Ennis, in which last 
 c;ise Governors pay i'l only for rent, 40S0. 
 
 That the Governors' power in distributing these funds is exercised in a manner contrary to law, 
 which they suspend at their convenience and indiscreetly, in not clothing the free pupils and not 
 sending them out as apprentices, 4032-3, 4057-8, 40G0-1. 
 
 That the Governors and master interpose obstacles to education in Ennis : Governors pay certain 
 masters employed in the school, and head master will not allow them to instruct boys nor pujiils in 
 his school, although such undcr-niasters not r(!siclent at the school and nor occupied more than two 
 or three hours a-day; master makes it a condition that they do not take boys except with his per- 
 mission : with the sanction of the Governors, to whom complaint was made on the subject ; Gover- 
 nors did not think the matter called for their interference with Dr. King, 4063-8, 4U72-3. 
 
 Fees or Charges to Pupils : — Complains of the Governors that they exercise no control over the 
 master in regard to fees or charges for <lay pupils ; the public should derive some benefit from the 
 endowment ; obliged to pay at a high rate ; it is a private school, with endowment, Dr. King making 
 it as beneficial to himself as possil)le, without the Governors controlling him, 4011-2. DifTerent 
 rates of charge by master in Galway and Drogheda, 4012. 
 
 Vacations : — Instanced as an illustration of the conversion of the endowment to the convenience 
 of the head m.aster ; time and duration of vacations ; Governors on Dr. Cullinan's complaint of this 
 told him they could not interfere in the private management of the school, 4002-5. No allusion 
 in by-laws to holidays (see Charter, under Erasimts Sinitli), 4006, 4011. 
 
 Management of Estates by Board of Governors : — Considers they have lost some property, 3999 : 
 Cahircallamore (Co. Clare), a rent-charge; arrears and fees, and "school ground at Ennis, no 
 tenant, gratis," 3830, 3833, 4078: — Originally Kilmacally or Koilty, J-'lOO a-ycar rent -charge ; 
 statements as to sales of the property; proceedings in Exchequer and Incumbered Estates Courts ; 
 uncertainty of information, 4074-4078 : present tenant of property supposed to be chargeable, 
 4079. Governors say they have no property in the locality of Ennis, 40C9, 4078. 
 
 Inquiry of Governors by Dr. Cullinau whether any persons were entitled to any advantages by 
 reason of being tenants on their property in the neighbourhood ; Governors reply that they have 
 not any property in that locality (Ennis), and that there are not any special advantages reserved 
 in tlie school at Ennis for the inhabitants of that town, in preference to other persons, 40G8-71 
 (see Charter under Erasmus Smith). 
 
 Prizes given by Primate and Governors ; suggested by Dr. Cullinan for inquiry : prospectus of 
 Drogheda school states, ''the Primate gives some prizes to be competed for by the pupils of all the 
 grammar schools ;" never heard of such a thing in Ennis school ; has not heard of Governors' 
 prizes, or whether they are distributed there, 4083. 
 
 For particulars as to Ennis Erasmus Smith Grammar School, and evidence of other witnesses in 
 reference to same, see under Ennis, and Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlmv, Chairman, itc, of Erasmus Smith Board, as to representations at 
 Ennis, of Dr. Cullinan, 22800 et seq., 22945 ef seq. ; of Dr. King, 22G96 et seq. :— see Emm, and 
 under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 General Observations, and Sur/ffestions hi/ Dr. Cidliiian as to Education ffeneralli/. — Unsatisfactory 
 state of education among uj>pcr and middle classes in the provinces, for want of eflicient schools : 
 in Queen's Colleges, Scholarships and Exhibitions regarded not as honours for merit, but rather as 
 helps to young men of limited means in pursuing academical studies; the Colleges to some extent 
 perform the functions of schools, with an unsuited organization, their own functions being materially 
 deranged and imperfectly performed. Defect remediable : expectations from present inquiry, and 
 suggestions for improvement of endowed schools; which have been greatly mismanaged, with little 
 regard to public interests, the absence of control and responsibility having led to accumulation of 
 abuses and inefficiency, 4094. 
 
 Reforms suggested: — Abolition of the various incongruous and inefficient plans now existing for 
 management of endowed schools, and establishment of one uniform and comprehensive system : 
 creation of a Board of Management, consisting of a chief director, paid, and associated with other 
 learned and eminent persons as honorary directors; with paid assistants, to act as Inspectors of 
 schools, 3981-5, 4096 : Central Board to have absolute control, with appeal to Lord Lieutenant 
 only, 4096 : and with .assistance of local persons, which he thinks essential, as a Local Board or 
 Committee, always on the spot, to assist and co-operate with Inspector and report to Central Board, 
 3982-G. S\'stcm, analagous to that of the National Education system; a governing bod}', with inspec- 
 tors, and local patrons, 3992-3; but would let the patronage rest, not with an individual, but with 
 a number of persons of rank and intelligence as a coraniittee, in the district, 3993-4. 
 
 Would establish one Academic School for each county, under rules to be prescribed and modified 
 by Central Board : education therein to be of most comprehensive and complete char.icter attainable 
 in preparatory schools for literary training: academic stafT, a head master and seven other masters; 
 one respectively for mathematical sciences; for classics ; for natural philosophy; for English lite- 
 rature, logic, political cconomv, and history; for foreign languages; for arithmetic, writing, and 
 Vol. II. ' 3 N 2
 
 456 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSIOX. 
 
 Cullinan, FalrU-k Jf., M.D., Bonis, — continued. 
 
 book-keeping ; and for drawing: cbarge for admission of pnpil, £1 a-year, and £1 for eacli krancli 
 ia -n-hich lie may be instructed, afiording a complete eciucation for £8 a-year, or a more limited one 
 at less cost, according to his objects or convenience : half the admission fees to go to head master, 
 and half the class payments to the respective class masters attended by the pupil : the other moiety 
 to be divided between head master and general purposes of the school and requisites, as chemical 
 and electrical apparatus, maps, models, books of reference, &c. : free education in each school for 
 ]iraite<l number of pupils, elected half-yearly by concursus with preference to poorer candidates : 
 the examinations public, by master, assisted by an inspector, aud the selection ratified by the Board: 
 For encouragement to industry and exertion, substantial aud valuable prizes, but few in number, to 
 be distributed among pupils of each county school :— to promote wider emulation, two or three 
 considerable prizes to each province, open to competition once, by pupils of all the county schools 
 in the province; perhaps even national prizes, 409G-409S. 
 
 Estimate of expense of proposed plan, in detail, amounting to £44,980, say £30,000 ; may be 
 defrayed by proper application of even a portion of existing endowments ; does not amount to half 
 of that expended in supporting endowed scliools of little or no advantage to the public, 4098-9. 
 
 C'uHis, Miss Kate, Assistant Schoolmistress of Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of as 
 to emplovment of school girls by the head mistress on her own work, 15449 et si-q. : the girls have 
 often worked after hours, lo45G, 154G0; leaving after dark, 154G5-70:— (see under Swords.) 
 
 Dain, Horatio, Parliament-street, Westminster ; letter from, to the Bishop of Limerick, as to the 
 Leamy School Endowment (see under Limerick), 3G05. 
 
 DaUi Rev. Peter, Parisli Priest and Vicar of Galway : Evidence of, as to the Erasmus Smith Endow- 
 nient aud I'oneral state of education, 5992 et seq.; as to man.agement and tenure on Western Estates 
 of Erasmus Smith Board, 5982 et seq. 
 
 Small amount of education afforded for the large endowment of £3,400 : sufficient for education 
 of the district and liberties of Galway; necessity of a great change, 5992. Great expense as com- 
 pared with nuuibers educated ; and comparison with large numbers and small expense of school in 
 connection with >fational Board, 5995. Complaint of lioman Catholics as to these schools being 
 professedly and designedly for Protestants alone, 5995. Thinks the funds of Erasmus Smith Schools 
 should be applied to education of the poor of all religious denominations, 5997. As to charter and 
 intentions of founder, 599S-G004. 
 
 As to Western Estates of Erasmus Smith Schools : Tenure on lease of forty-one years, renew.able 
 every seven, on fine, tenant paying also for the lease ; objections to this tenure on ground of expense 
 and of risk of forfeiture ; instance, 5984-5. Would have a lease for ever at certain rent, so that 
 there mi^ht be no danger of being disturbed, to tenants laying out money and paying their rent, 
 5985. Does not complain of the Governors, but wishes for an alteration of the Act of 25 Geo. III. 
 c. 5.5, iu this particular, 5987-9L 
 
 Baimt, George, esq., Kilmonogue, Kinsale; Evidence as to Oatlands School (Co. Cork ),_ now closed, 
 and 'house and laud held by dismissed schoolmaster, in spite of proceedings to eject him (see Oat- 
 la)id.<), 1171-9. 
 
 Davidson, John, Esq., Accountant, Master Extraordinary in Chancery, Assistant Secretary of Grand 
 
 Jury, Arnia'di ; Evidence of, as to situation of a house formerly the Armagh Royal School, 9635-8 : 
 
 (see Armagh.) 
 Dawson, Mrs. : bequest of four guineas a-ycar for education in Co. Carlow, 73. Rev. Frederick J. 
 
 Trench Rector of Carlow, cannot learn any thing respecting it; does not think the bequest has 
 
 been made to any school in Co. Carlow, 75. 
 
 Dawson, Verv Rev. Peter, p.p., Carrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim : — 
 
 Evidence as to General State of Education, aud provision for .same, in Co. Leitrim, 6937-55, 
 6972-82 0999-7006. Want of intennediate schools ; generally speaking, in whole of Leitrim an 
 absolute want of scientific and classical cdu(ation, 6938. A good mercantile and classical school 
 established in Carrick would be supported; at from £2 to .£4 a-year, 6946, G948-50. A d.ay and 
 boarding school condjincd, 6952 : Two-thirds of the children would be day scholars, G972. Pro- 
 bable number of boarders at moderate terms, say £20 a-year, G973-G. Such a school would be a 
 great advantage to the town, 6977. 
 
 Obiections to an education tax on the locality for the support of the school, 6979-SL A charge 
 on the Consolidated Fund would be agreed to, 6982. 
 
 Dilliculty in reirard to boarders of different religious ilenominations in same school, 6999-7003. 
 A system similar to that of the National Board, giving free acec'^a to the ministers of each religion 
 to give religious i;istrnction at fixed times, would be a suflicient safeguard in the opinion of 
 moderate minded Uoii'.an Catholics, 7004-6. 
 
 Letter from, as to endowment fer a school at Carrick-on- Shannon, 6842: (see Carrick-on- 
 tSliannon.) 
 
 Evidence of, as to endowment of a school at Drumrcilly, Co. Leitrim, 6935 : (sec Drmnreilbj.) 
 Day Scliooh, and schools for boarders and free pupils : — sec under names of particular schools. 
 Dc'in Scarderille and Archdeacon Ilewitscn's endowments for a Protestant School at Swords, Co- 
 Dublin : see Swords. 
 Deane, Moses: Endowment of schools in Cork ; 
 
 Christchurch ; not in operation, 2032 et seq. 
 
 St. Mary Sliandon, 2032, 2259. 
 
 St. Nicholas, 2032, 2038, et seq. 
 
 St. Peter, 20.32, 2164, (;«,sfi5. 
 
 (^Sec under Cdk.)
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 457 
 
 De Burgh, Rev. Waller, Vic-ir of Naas, a Memhor of Bo:ii-'l of SiipfiriritondoDCO of Cliarter School of 
 Kildarc : 
 
 Evidence of, as to General State of Education, ami provision for naine : Objections to an cduea- 
 tioniil tax, 1'1012 ct mi. : a])i)oiMtnieiit of Roman (j'atli(dic assistant teacher for Diocesan School 
 (see under Naas,) would meet olijections of many, llOIo. 
 
 Evidence of, as to IJcmadea Schuol, Co. Kildarc, satisfactory character of it, 13881-2: (see 
 Jhimidid.) 
 
 Decline of schools and its causes : — 
 
 Bnllp-oan, Lyon, 477G-8 et seq. Gahvay Grammar fichuol, Blakcney, G015-23 ; Killeeri 5492 
 H seq. ; Hallowell, 20113-5 et seq. ; Berwick, 23122, 231 35 ; Neshitt, 23133. Klthriclceu Tenantry 
 School, 4915 ct seq. KiUermo;ili, Bailey, 5111-2. T-MwericZ: Diocesan School, Kirwan, 3208 c-< 
 seq.: Ilon-g, 244-3, 2483 et seq.; Moore, 2579-2C00 et seq.; D'Esterre, 32-12 et seq.' Navan, 
 Preston School, Legg, 12878 et seq. Lmierick Blue School, O'Shca, 2401 ; Mullin, 2840 et seq. '; 
 Kirwan, 3340 ct Sf^. /y/.«w6o(>. Gill, 7(j51. jyorwymrt Diocesan School, Mooney, 8G95-9 rf «m ■ 
 9017-24 t(! seq.; Wright, 9110-37; Moffatt, 9277-86; and see oihcv Diocesan Schools. Pallas- 
 (jreen. Murphy, 42GG-70, 4282-9. Tralee, Erasmus Smith, 23G3-G ; and sre under other names of 
 particular schools ; and as to discontinuance of schools or lo.ss of endowment, under Endowment. 
 
 Decline or disappearance of schools for middle classes since establishment of National Schools 
 10447, 10454-6, 1051G, 10547-8; and see under Intermediate HcImoIs, Eaiional Schools, &c. 
 
 Delahoyd, Edward, formerly a boy in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin : Evidence of as to 
 practice of tlogging in the school ; was flogged for not being fit to go up from fifth to fourth class 
 and for missing a word in his class ; not for stealing, bad language, or lying, 1551 G-32 : flo"'"ed 
 with trousers off, the assistant master, Bryson, present and laughing, 15626-31 : — (see under 
 Sioord.<.) 
 
 Ddmeeje, ,Tohn C, Esq., .t.p., Member of Committee appointed by Grand Jury to in(juirc into state of 
 Limerick Diocesan School; communication from Mr. Delmegc and Mr. Vandeleur, j.p.. Chairman 
 of Cotiimittce, 2431. Communication from Committee, as to unsatisfactory manacenient of the 
 school, 2430. — (See under Limerick.) 
 
 Lcmpseij, Miss; Endowment for schools at Kells, Co. Meath : see Kells, 
 
 Derry: see London derri/. 
 
 Design, schools of; see Draicine/. 
 
 Despard, Captain //., Agent of Lord Bangor ; correspondence with, as to endowments for schools at 
 Killough, Co. Down, and as to Rev. S. M. West's evidence on the subject, 20305 ct seq., 20308-13. 
 Captain Dcspard under a misapprehension, 20309, 20313 See Killourjh. 
 
 D'Esterre, Arthur Harry, Esc[., Surgeon ; formerly a pupil in the Limerick Diocesan School; Evidence 
 of; high opinion of school, cannot account for its falling off (see under Limerick), 3242 et serf. 
 
 Diet and domestic arrangements of boarding schools ; see under names of schools. Complaints as to 
 food in Bishop f oy's School, sec under Waterford. 
 
 Dighy, Rev. W., a Trustee of Bishop Hodson's endowment for a grammar school at Elphin, Co. Ros- 
 common ; communication from ; unable to afford any information, 7227 : — (see Elphin.) 
 Dillon, Patrick, Es(j. ; school endowed by, no longer in operation ; see Cantlemarket, Queen's Co. 
 Diocesan Schools: — 
 
 Founded under Act of 12 Eliz. for erection of free schools ; Act of 7 AVm. III. for enforcin"- pre- 
 vious statute ; Act of 17 Geo. I. c. 9, enabling Grand Juries to present money for buildin" schools 
 but to be raised only off the locality of the school; 29 Geo. II. c. 7, presentments for repairs off 
 whole county ; 53 Geo. III., presentments for repairs and building of diocesan schools ; general 
 Grand Jury Act, 6 & 7 Wm. IV. c. 116, superseding previous Grand Jury Acts; presentments 
 lawful for purchasing, i)roviding, building, or repairing schoolhouse and dwelling-hou.se of master 
 of diocesan school or district school, by Grand Jury of county iu which situate, to be levied off 
 county ; but school for which such presentment may be made not to be or remain united with any 
 oilier diocese, but to be supported within its own diocese, and presentment to be applied solely to 
 use of the diocesan school and not to any district school or school out of diocese, 733G-7. 
 
 Representation, in 1833, of impediments in the way of founding and establishinn- diocesan 
 schools, particularly that of Limerick, 2422-3 : of eighteen dioceses or districts, only eight pro- 
 vided with effective schools, 2423. Difficulty of providing for repairs, from indisposition of Grand 
 Juries to present money, 2424 : buildings become dilapidated and ruinous, 2425. Recommendation 
 in 1850, for inspection of diocesan schools, 2426. Schools not eftective, from objectionable mode 
 of paying masters and from dila]iidatcd state of buildings, there being no funds for repairs beyond 
 any voluntary provision by Grand Juries, 2427. 
 
 Legislation relating to ; difSculty of providing and supporting diocesan schools, 13121-40. 
 
 Want of funds for buildings, repairs, etc. : bad state of, in consequence, and injurious effect on 
 the schools ; Carlnw, Scott, 32-36, 62-66. Elphin, Flynn, 7345-50. 
 
 Salaries of masters of, how paid ; contributions of clergy and Clare-street Commissioners ; 
 Elphin, Flynn, 7429-33, 7447-8. Diocesan schoolmaster paid by tax upon beneficed derfymen • 
 not the slightest advantage to them, but no power to remove the grievance in present state of the 
 law ; Tttam, Dean I'lunket G063. 
 
 General com])laints of inefficiency of Diocesan Schools, and of want of inspection of them, Arch- 
 deacon Eussell, 9210-7 ; Bishop of Down, 10475 : Warner, 13142. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Board, as to unsatisfactory state and inefii- 
 ciency of, 21297-319, 21352-9, 21368-9, 21320-6, 313G0-71 ; less attention paid by Board to 
 
 Diocesan Schools than to Royal Schools, 21222-4; want of power to remedy evils, 21320-2: 
 
 see under Commissio7iers of Education.
 
 45S ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Diocesan Schools .•—continued. 
 Diocesan Schools at 
 
 Carlow, for Ossory andLeiglilin, 1. 
 
 Cork, for Cork, Cloyno, and Koss, 1180. 
 
 Downpatrick, for Down, Connor, and Dromore, 1025G, 10299. 
 
 Elpl.in,7222, 7336. 
 
 Limerick, for Limerick, Killaloe, and Kilfenora, 2399, 2416. 
 
 Londonderry, or Foyle College, 10751. 
 
 Monagban, for Clogher, Kilniore, and P.aplioe, 8686, 8917, 9140. 
 
 Mullin^ar, for Meatli and Ardagh, 13121. 
 
 Naas, for Kildare, 13907, 13049. 
 
 Wicklow, for Dublin and Glendalougb, 13681. 
 See under names of the respective schools. 
 Diocese of Raphoe; Endowments for parochial schools in, by Colonel Robertson, 11118. 
 
 Discipline of schools : sef under names of particular schools ; and Prizes, Punishments, Regulations, &c. 
 
 Discontinvance of schools, or schools closed ; see under Endowments, Erasmtis Smith, Lord Lieute- 
 nant's Fund, itc, and under names of particular schools or localities. 
 
 Diskard and Crappagh, Co, Monaghan : 
 
 Endowment for schools at, by Rev. William Harris, (ob. 1841,) of Killevan, Co. Monaghan; 
 
 bequest for building four National schools, two in parish of Killevan, two in parish of Aughabog, 
 
 9304. 
 Dispensary in connection with school ; Swords, 14028 et scq. ; see Swords. 
 
 Distinctive dress for schools ; see Dress, Blue Coat, Green Coat, &c. 
 
 Diversion of endowments : — see under Endoiuments, Estates, and their particular names. 
 Dixon Rev. R. V., Rector of Clogherny, Omagh, Co. Tyrone; late Fellow, Professor of Natural and Ex- 
 perimental Philosophy, and Tutor, T.C.D. ; — Letter from, on the subject of Education and its 
 requirements in his locality and generally ; want of intermediate schools ; nature and course of 
 instruction required ; necessity of endowment ; want of a chief central authority, under one Com- 
 missioner or Inspector-General, pages 333-336. 
 Doheii'i, Rev. J. : Endowments by, for schools at Doon, Templeneiry, and Toem, Co. Tipperary : — 
 £100 at four per cent, bequeathed as additional stipends to parochial schoolmasters at these 
 places : no trace of them now, 654-6. Letters from Rev. B. H. Banner, Rector and Vicar of Temple- 
 neiry or Bansha, as to a paj'ment to the schoolmaster there up to 1836, when it was stopped, 655-6. 
 Dolling, Robert Halhack, Esq., late Churchwarden and Trustee of Jackson Boys and Girls School, 
 Monaghan : evidence in regard to that endowment : (see under Morutglian), 8579 : as to Drum- 
 cruttcn School, Co. Monaghan, endowed by Lady Rossmore ; house and land ; school not in opera- 
 tion : (see Drumcrutten), 9290-5. 
 Donadea, Co. Kildare ; Erasmus Smith School : — 
 
 Informaiiim finni Reports of previous Inquiries, itc, 13789-13794. — Charter of Cha.s. II. and 
 Act of Geo. I. "regulating the Erasmus Smith Endowments (see \mf\ev Erasmus Smith), 13789: — 
 Reports on the Donadea School, — in 1826, 13790; in 1835, 13791-2; return in 1854, of expen- 
 diture of Erasmus Smith funds, 13793-4. 
 
 Present Inquiry : — Commvnication from Sir Gerald G. Aylmer, Bart., Donadea, as to withdrawal 
 of support by Er.ismus Smith Board ; foundation of the school in 1823, by subscriptions and grant 
 from Loril Lieutenant's Fund, Sir G. G. Aylmer giving two acres of land on lease for ever, as site ; 
 school i)laced under Erasmus Smith Board, who paid the salary of master and mistress ; one room 
 let for petty sessions once a fortnight at £10 a-year, applied to repairs and fuel for school ; Board 
 afterwards objected, and letting discontinued ; school managed to their approval, the master and 
 mistress receiving gratuities from them. A residence for the clergyman being built adjoining the 
 schoolhouse, the Board in consequence in 1854 withdrew the grant for salaries, without pension or 
 provision for tlie master and mistress after thirty-one years' service, and school must have been 
 discontinued, but for a small salary being made up from private sources, 13795. 
 
 Petition from Patrick Leggatt and Maria Leqgatl, master and mistress of the school, to Erasmus 
 Smith Board : salaries, originally £20, and £10 gratuity, to master ; £12, and £6 gratuity, to mis- 
 tress, making £48 ; reduced five or six years afterwards to £30 per annum jointly : Patrick Leggatt 
 also for twenty five yea}-H clerk of j>etty sessions, about £20 a-year, which he resigned on intima- 
 tion that it vvould dis(inalify him for salary from the Boanl : successful management of school for 
 thirty-two years ; pray for continuance of the salaries to the school, or for a pension to them- 
 selves, having no other means of support, 13796. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Patrick Leggatt, master: — To same effect as the petition, as to .amount, receipt, 
 and withdrawal of salaries, 13797-13809 : answer from the Board that they never grant pensions, 
 13810-1, 13880. Objection to his kce])ing the two olRces of schoolmaster and clerk of petty 
 sessions : the Governors were aware that he held the situation of petty sessions clerk while school- 
 master, for twenty-five years, and no fault found, 13832-44 ; abandoned the former and afterwards 
 removed from the latter without compensation, 13851-2. 
 
 Evidence of Gerald George Aylmer, Esq., 13856-13864: — Hands in lease for ever of piece of 
 ground given by his father. Sir Gerald Aylmer, Bart., for the school, 138G1-3. — Aware of Mr. 
 Leggatt, th(! master, being under the Erasmus Smith Board, and acting as petty sessions clerk ; 
 their inspector regularly visited the school ; petty sessions hehl in school-room, 13864. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Walker, rector of Donadea : — Visited the school while Patrick Leggatt 
 was master, examined the pupils, and was ])orfectly satisfied with the manner in which it was con- 
 ducted, 13874-8 ; places in select school obtained by boys and girls from Donadea school, 13879. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Walter de Burgh, Vicar of Naas, a member of Board of Superintendence of 
 Charter School of Kildare: — School at Donadea amongst those that gave the most satisfactory 
 education, 13882.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 459 
 
 Donadea, Co. Kildarc ; Erasmus Smith School : — continued. 
 
 Evidence of John Barlow, Esq., Cliainiiaii, Treasurer, and Auditor of Erasmus Smith Eoaid, in 
 reference to the rci)roscntationH made in this case, 21764-fi, 23088-lli. Evidence of lieu. Hugh 
 Ilamillon, Registrar and Insjiector of Erasmus Smith Board, 24242-3. — (See under Eraivius Smith 
 Board.) 
 
 Donegal, Co. of: Lnjuiry as to scliools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Lill'ord, 11103 el seq. Statement by Mr. Magec, Newry, (sec Armagli,) as to endowments, 9373. 
 
 Doon, Co. Tipperary : endowment for school at ; see above, under Doherii/. 
 
 Dowden, Richard {R.), Esq., Cork ; Evidence as to Christian Brothers' Schools ; high character of 
 
 them, and instances of .successful education there, 1358, 1364-5 : — (see Cork.) 
 Dowling, Mr.; Memorial from, and statement in reference to Pleasants' A.syluni, Dublin, 22348-52. 
 
 Down, Co. of : Incjuiry as to schools and cudownieuts, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Downpatrick, 9699 et scq., 20305 e( seq. 
 
 Down, Connor, and Dromore, Bishop of : Evidence of, as to Diocesan School, and General State of 
 
 Education, and provision for same ; and suggestions, 10475-85 Letter from, with more detailed 
 
 suggestions, page 303. 
 
 Recommends complete change of present system : would consolidate resources for education into 
 one general fund, under one governing body or Board of paid Commissioners, having respect to 
 private or peculi.ir trusts and carrying them out in spirit of the founders : Funds would be ade- 
 quate not only for education as it at present exists, but for the establishment of a larger number 
 of intermediate schools, which are most desirable, 10476-9. 
 
 Masters being under one board, inducements in the way of promotion could be held out, 10476. 
 
 Would give powers to remove schools to other localities and eKtablish new ones ; full powers, 
 10480-1 . The property belonging to the existing schools should be managed by the board ; landed 
 property for educational purposes should be retained in land and not converted into money, 104S3. 
 
 Beneficial effect on education if Government appointments in the civil, military, and naval 
 services, were thrown open to public competition, 10484 : should be open to all schools and all 
 persons, wherever educated, 10485. 
 
 Diocesan schools ; — Considers that they do not fulfil the conditions of the original founders, and 
 
 that they do not give adequate advantages to the parties who mainly contribute to their endowment, 
 
 10475. Declared by law to be public Latin free schools, but are not free Latin schools ; only one 
 
 county in Ireland (Limerick) in which the Grand Jury has levied a rate for diocesan schools, but 
 
 r do not exercise their privilege of appointing free scholars, 10475. 
 
 Diocesan schools supported by a tax on the bishop and clergy of the diocese, who should have the 
 privilege of nominating free scholars from their own body : but the contribution from the clergy 
 is practically an endowment given merely to a private school, 10475. 
 
 Letter from the Bishop of Down, containing suggestions on education generally, page 303. 
 
 Down, Connor, and Dromore Diocesan School, Downpatrick ; see Downpatrick. 
 
 Downpatrick, Co. Down : — Imjuiry aud evidence taken, as to schools and endowments, and state of 
 education in Co. Down, 9699 et seq., 20305 et seq. 
 
 Blue School, or Aleyn's Blue School, Downpatrick, 9836-10255. 
 District Diocesan School, for Down, Conuor, and Dromore, 10236-10283, 10299. 
 General State of Education and provision for same in the locality; Theophilus Gardiner's Endow- 
 ment for schools in Downpatrick, 10284-90, 10296-8. 
 
 BLUE SCnOOL, OR ALETn's BLUE SCUOOL, DOWNPATRICK. 
 
 School under D. S. Kerr, Esq., as patron : codicil to a will of Edward Southwell, Esq., under 
 which it was founded, not forthcoming, 9836 etseq. 
 
 Evidence of David Uarrell, Esq., Steward to the charity and receiver of the rents of the Down- 
 patrick estate, purchased in 1845 by Mr. Kerr, 9837-61 : nature of his duties in connection with 
 the charity, 9866-7. 
 
 Endowment by Mr. Southwell, in 1750, a charge upon certain lands; rental of lauds £969 ; 
 net income from them, £681 ; of which £218 per annum bequeathed for an aliushouse and two 
 schools, 9841-6, 9885. Of the £218 for the charity, £73 left to the hospital for old men and 
 women, and £144 to the Blue Schools ; but expenditure exceeds income bequeathed, and is made 
 up by Mr. Kerr ; more on the foundation than the prescribed number, 9S47-8, 9863-5. 
 
 Codicil of Mr. Southwell's will, under which the charity was founded, not forthcoming ; litigation 
 under the will ; in Chancery eleven years, from 1834 to 1845 ; sale of lands in 1845, under order 
 in Chancery, when Mr. Kerr became purchaser, 9849-62, 9870. Inquiries for the will and abstract 
 of title, which had been in doubt, 9866-84. 
 
 Regulations for the schools ; reports to Mr. Kerr; visitation, 9888-91. 
 
 Admission of children, on recommendation of persons in the town ; list of applicants made out 
 by steward and submitted to Mr. Kerr, who selects from such list , generally from working classes, 
 labourers, stone cutters, and some small dealers or shopkeepers, 9964-70. 
 
 A day school; but in expenditure, a charge for ten boys "boarded," at £2 15s. id. per 
 head, per annum, and ten girls at same rate ; the money paid to the children, who take it home to 
 their parents ; no receipts for it ; has no reason to believe the children were ever maintained in 
 the schoolhouse, 9971-9. 
 
 _ Apprenticing : — Yearly payment charged, £8 6s. for apprenticing three l)oys, and same for three 
 girls; not the same number every year, but every school child apprenticed (except one who did 
 not require it), and a fee paid with every child, 9980-2 ; trades and occupations to which boys 
 and girls are apprenticed, 9983-10000: girls generally dressmakers; none ever qualified to be 
 schoolmistress, lUOOl : masters and mistresses for apprentices selected by witness by authority of 
 Mr. Kerr, 9982. J J J
 
 460 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Downpatrick : — Blue School, or Alctjus Blue School, Mr. Ilarrell's evidence, — continued. 
 
 Explanation of a charge of £42 for clothing for boys and girls, and for books, paper, ifec, for 
 schools; almost wholly' for clothing; £3 G^. id. for books and paper, &c., in two years; books 
 asked for supplied, no application refused, 10044-51. 
 
 Medical attendance ; — An allowance of £9 4.s. 8(1. to an apothecary for attendance on the hospital 
 and schools; bound to attend the children if ill, 100G4-7. 
 
 Unsatisfactory state and management of the school, and repeated complaints ; inefficiency of the 
 master and warnings to him, notice of dismissal on one occasion, for want of attention to progress 
 of the children, 9802-9963 : reports of school not going on in satisfactory manner, to Mr. Kerr, who 
 contemplated alteration with a view to raise the character of the school and establish a giammar 
 school, 9893, 9898. Complaints by the clergyman, Mr. M(jflatt, 9921 et seq. 
 
 Unsatisl'actory progress of the children complained of also by the Dean's lady, who attends the 
 girls school regularly, 10020-1, 10052-1. Employment of schoolboys and girls ; the former 
 in gardening, &c., the latter in needlework and household offices, 9895-7, 10022-30. 
 
 No inspection of schools beyond that of the clergyman, Mr. MofFatt ; and similar dissatisfaction 
 expressed in regard to the girls school as in regard to boys school, 9921, 99G3, 10002-19, 10032-8. 
 
 Alleged difficulty in the way of removing the master and mistress, notwithstanding complaints 
 and reuionstrances, 10058-G3. 
 
 Evidence of' Itec. Iloratlo Mqfutt, Curate of the parish : — Has made complaints of the master 
 being careless in the conduct of the school ; has been in the habit of visiting it for five years ; 
 thinks the master too old ; school would bo unquestionably benefited by his removal, and by pro- 
 curing a better te.icher, 100G8-80. Schoolmistress rather advanced in j'ears, and comidains of 
 havin" too much work in carrying on the secular instruction of the children ; girls very much 
 emploj-ed in shirt-making for the boys, and but little .«chool time ; children not properly taught, 
 10084-8. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Thomaf: Teer, Schoolmaster: — Previous training in Kildare-place, and experience 
 in teaching, "10089-9G. School hours and vacations, lUOii7-104. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — Reading, writing, and arithmetic, and sometimes measurement and geo- 
 graphy, 10105-7. Ignorance and defective instruction of the boys; unsatisfactory answering on 
 examination by the Commissioners, 10110 et seq. : unwillingness of the master to have them 
 examined, 10148-54, 10181. As to industrial eniploymont of the boys, 1015G-8. School not 
 inspected, except occasionally by the clergyman, Mr. Moflatt, 1U159 : no examination by him, 
 101G2-7. Further evidence, as to numbers at school, of which an incorrect return nuule, and as to 
 liis unsatisfactory conduct of the school, his emoluments, &c., 10168-10213. 
 
 Evidence of Miss Grace Q'/arfc, Mistress of Girls School: — Previous training in Kildare-place, and 
 experience in teaching, 10214-8. Instruction of the girls, reading, writing, accounts, knitting, and 
 plain work, no instruction in grammar, 10219, 10244. — No time-table or hours of instruction ; as 
 much time given to needlework as can be spared from lessons, does not go by hours, 10220-2, 
 10229-30. Uirls sometimes work for herself, and do the needlework for the boys and girls 
 school, 10222 et seq., 10248. Unsatisfactory answering of the children on exan;ination, 10231-43. 
 
 DISTRICT DIOCESAN SCHOOL; FOR DOWN, CONNOR, AND DROMOUE. 
 
 Iiifoi-mation from Reports of previous Inquiries, lic. : — Numbers of puj)ils, boarders, day scholars, 
 and free scholars, at various times ; salary and other particulars, 10256-G2. Small number of 
 pupils, and no free scholars in time of late master, 102G0: greater number of ]iupils in present 
 master's time, and free scholars from one to four, 102C0: free scholars iu 1852 and 1853, none, 102C1. 
 
 No schoolhouse, and school held in a rented house, 102.56, 102G2 ; no house or land lill a grant 
 made by Lord de Cliilbrd, before 1827, about two acres; Grand Jury presentments for buihling, 102G2. 
 
 Question as to site : letter from Secretary of Clare-street Commissioners of Education; master iu 
 receipt of profit arising from site of former school at Dromore, 102G1. 
 
 Evidence of Her. Joseph Cooper, master, 10263-10283, 10209. Present number of scholars, 20 ; 
 no boarders, 10265-6 : no free scholars ; has had no application for three year.s, never refused 
 any, 102G7-9; ajiplied to Secretary of Clare-.street Boaid as to his liability as to free scholars; 
 being under obligation to take them, thought high terms inconsistent, — has been oflcred higher terms 
 than he accepted, 10299. Explanation as to difference of numbers appearing in the returns, 10272-3. 
 
 Course of instruction embraces a great number of subjects, though ho has no assistant ; classics, 
 elementary parts of geometry, French, and bookdieeping ; fits young men to enter college, and 
 Apothecary's Hall, where some French is required, and for commercial life, 10273-7. 
 
 Another classical and commercial school in the town, giving a very general course of instrncticm ; 
 under management of committee, a rival to his; rrjccted overtures to amalgamation on condition 
 of his taking their principal assistant, 10278—81. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION AND PROVISION FOR SAME IN THE LOCALITY : ENDOWMENT UY 
 
 TIlEorillLUS OAUDINER. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Samuel Crair/ Nchon, 10284-90, 1029G-8 — Thinks number of schoidsat ]>own- 
 patrick not deficient ; Diocesan and Committee schools, for middle or higher classes ; and a Presby- 
 terian school, not always open ; for other classes, Blue Coat lIo-])ital, Natiomil schools, and other 
 schools in the town : rather too many schools than too few; a smaller number, better cn<lowed and 
 better manageil, preferable, 10284. An increiiso vi the endowment for Mr. Cooper's school, the 
 diocesan school, woidd nnike it exceedingly useful to the town ami neighbourhood by enabling liim 
 to ii:ive an efiicient staff of assistants ; testimony to Mr. Coo|)er's cfiicicncy as a master and respect 
 in which he is held ; his own children educated liy him ; might bo made a first-rato diocesan school 
 witli a little assistance, 10286-90. Probable nundi.T of additional pujiils and necessity for additiona. 
 endowment notwithstanding, 10296-8. 
 
 An to endowment by Theophilus Gardiner for old Lancastcrian school and for infant school, no 
 information ; not now in operation, but will inquire as to the endowment, 10281-5.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 4(H 
 
 Lh;/le, Frfincia, rcsidont .-it Swonls, Co. Dublin ; EvLlriice of, na to rofusa! of coal.s (see under Swonh 
 liorourjli tichool), uiiics.s lie hrouglit back the boy he liad taken from it, 155G1-3. 
 
 Drajiei; William, Sli.1,'0 : Endowment by, £18 a-year, roijorted by Select Committee of House of Cora- 
 ntonson Foundation ScIiooIk, as being then in operation, after suit instituted, 0071. 
 
 Evidence of Ivev. Samuel Shone, Curate of Sligo ; — clergy and inhabitants not at all aware of anv 
 sucli ouilowment for education ; \^ an ondowmcut for rewarding female servants, GOTO. Uncer- 
 tainty, in ab.-ienec of will and punicular.-i of suit referred to, CG71-5. 
 
 Draw in ff : — 
 
 Where iucluilcil in course of instruction : Cni/,-, Christian Brothers Schools, Duir^an 12.51-Gi 
 et seq. ; and see under names of iiayticular schools. 
 
 Utility and importance of :— ic Fan, 22G04-5, 22655-G ; Ma/let, 22572; Cassan, 5127-0, 
 licvingtoii, 4220 et seq., and other witnesses, passim. 
 
 Vress, distinctive, for schools : — 
 
 For boys ; for girls ; see under names of particular schools or localities. 
 
 Opinions respecting, C>.r?wan<o!('j;, Ilyndman, 22451-03. Watertm-d, Q-avcw, 002-10- O'llara 
 597, G05-G, G40-3. ' ■ • . 
 
 Objections to distinctive (ivGsa, Oxmantown, Kyle, 22-3 G2 ; Brady, 22517-8 Waterford Llw 
 School, Carow, 002-10. ' ./ - 
 
 Opinions in favour of, O.vmantown, Mallet, 22552. Waterford, Carew, 002-10 ■ O'llara 597 
 605-0,010-3. 
 
 Drogheda : 
 
 Blue School, 12430-12739. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Grammar School, 12740-12858. 
 
 Statement by Mr. Magce, Newry, (see Armni/h,) as to cnJowments, 9373. 
 
 DnoailKDA BLUE SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from Eejwrts of previous Tnquiries,l2i30-3.— In 182G, reported as aProlcstant school, 
 free and pay scholars ; schoolhouse built by subscription, in St. Peter's Churchyard, supported by 
 sub.scriptions and grant from Cori)oration, 12430 :— In 183-5, free school suiiportcd by subscrip- 
 tions ; fourteen boys : reading, writing, arithmetic, English grammar, 12431 : — In 1838, reported 
 a bequest by Dean Goxe for apprenticing freemen's children and clothing them, 13432. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Mr. John Shaw, master of the school, 12434-12G81. Not trained 
 as a schoolmaster; experience in teaching, 12434-40. 
 
 His salary and allowances, £42 a-year, house, coals, candles, and soap, 12G7G-80. Is also narish 
 clerk, with a salary for that office, 12450-1, 12GS1. ^ 
 
 Sources and amount of income for educating, feeding, and clothing the boys, and apprenticin<' 
 with fees ; £140 ayear, 12073-5. Books, kv., supplied by vicar and treasurer ;' books selected by 
 master and purchased from Church Education Society, because they are so che.ai) ; from state of 
 fund,-, does not always get books when applied fm-, but never refused by governors, 1244G-7 
 12G15-8. Boys have new clothing once a j'ear; badly ott" for clothing, 12448-9 12G2l'-3. ' 
 
 Thirteen boy.s in school, all boarders and Protestants; and maintenance allowed from the funds 
 
 _ Apprentices from the school ; fee with them £4 10?., considered small ; trades to which appren- 
 ticed ; two left and went to sea, 12647-52. 
 
 Course of instruction : reading, writing, spelling, English grammar, geography, sometimes 
 book-keeping ; ages and degree of proficiency, 12G 11 et seq. 
 
 Ignorance of the boys and very bad answering on examination, after some ycr.rs in scLoo' 
 12G40-G2. 
 
 Universal want of cleanliness throughout the e.'^tablishnient. and filthy state of every thin"- in it 
 tlie rooms, the bc<lding, the books, tlie boys, 12452-12613, 12630-2, 126G4-72. Filthy state of 
 <lormitory from night buckets, not disgusting or oft'ensive to master, 12459-G3 : beddiu<r old, worn 
 and filthy; rarity of fresh straw; bedticki? in constant use never washed since they were bought 
 four or five years ago ; has counterpanes and blankets in constant use for eleven years never 
 ■washed, 12474-12523 ; looked black with filth, but "the colour they have ever been -'' the dirtiest 
 washed within six months, tiic cleanest not for eleven years, 12521, 12523. In school-room 
 master did not see any greater accumulation of dirt and filth tlian usual ; cannot be very clean - 
 iu same state as usual, 125G7-8. The kitchen a slob, l2dS2. Dining-hall, 12587-8 1260G-7- 
 peculiarity of the boards, whicli will not wash white, 12612-3. Shamefully filthy sta'te of copy 
 pieces and copy books; thinks theiu clean, 12660, 12671. Boys' hair-cuftin" 12624-9- 
 iiavo no combs nor brushes, 12G30-2 ; their treatment when ill, 12633-6. Personal dirt ; boy.s 
 bathed in the Boync once in the year, the only occasion they have been washed all over dnrin'-' 
 the j'car, 12563-4. One boy absent with .sore foot; surgeon thought it should be cut ofl". from 
 scrofula, 12442. 
 
 Inspection of .school, none; no one comes to inspect it; tlie vicar sometimes or his a.ssistants may 
 come in ; a subscriber comes in sometimes ; no report book of visits ; rector and curate have been in 
 l>ed-room ; no complaint ever n.adc as to the filthy state of the dormitorj^, the dirt of the kitchen, 
 the dirt of the dining-hall, the dirt of the bo\-s ; one very dirty bo3' noticed and sent out to wash" 
 his hands, 12590-611. 
 
 Accounts kept by treasurer, all bills given to him ; pas3oJ by directors, some of whom are gene- 
 rally summoned at end of year. 12621-3, 12G37-9. 
 Vol, II. " ■ 3
 
 462 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Drocjlieda : — Blue School— cont'mned. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Gilbert Eccks, Curate of St Feter's, Droglieda : — Visits the Blue Boys' 
 School "-enerally once a fortnijrht, foimeily once a week, but rector being ill cannot attend so often; 
 examines in catechism, and oceasioiiaHy other branches, but not generally, 12G82-5. Disadvan- 
 tao-e of school from having no ))lay ground, only churchyard to play in, and boys therefore wore in the 
 Lo^se than pupils elsewhere, 1208(3. As to dirty state of rooms and of boys ; has noticed them to 
 the treasurer and the master, 12G90, 12699-12713. As to their proficiency in education ; some of 
 the boys very dull, others better ; has highest opinion of the anxiety of the master, who is increasing 
 in years, and has not the activity of raiud or body of a younger man, 12G87-8. Has observed 
 some of the defects pointed out, but did not like to interfere, not being a governor ; merely visits 
 as curate to catechise and instruct in Scripture, 12689 , extent of visitation and of Scriptural 
 instruction 12691-8, 12715 ; occasionally looked at their writing and examined in other subjects, 
 not altogether pleased with their progress, 12714-8. 
 
 Evidence of William Caiines, Esq., Treasurer. — Admission generally for sons of freemen, but rule 
 deiiarted from in cases of necessity, such as a distressed Protestant orphan, 12723-5. 
 
 Produces account book of school, 12719-21. Funds low, and he is always in advance; but ordered 
 liair cuttin" clean shirts, and whitewashing. Considers the master responsible to the governors for 
 the dirty state of the school, 1272G-9, No inspection ; when the governors meet they generally 
 look at it, and he occasionally looks in ; want of funds interferes with cleanliness, 12730-3. 
 
 Institution formerly maintained a larger number of boys ; would be better to maintain a smaller 
 number in a clean and proper manner, 12734-9. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH GRAMMAR SCHOOL, DROGHEDA. 
 
 Iiiforinaiion from Reports of preeious Inquiries, &c., 12740-3. A free grammar school founded 
 Tinder Erasmus Smith's Charter from Chas. II. (for terms and conditions of Charter, see under 
 Erasmus Smith), 12740. No estates in Drogheda belonging to the Erasmus Smith Board, 12741 : 
 number of boys, in 1810, ninety-nine, 12741 ; in 1826, ninety-four, seventy-three Protestants and 
 twenty-one Roman Catholics, 12742 ; in 1835, thirty, 12743. 
 
 Present Inquiry: — Evidence of Rev. George Frederick Lacy, head master, 12744-12858. At 
 ])resent, sixty boys ; twenty boarders, forty day pupils, including in the latter, six free pupils, 
 12746 : all Protestants, except one Roman Catholic, 12753 ; boarders, sons of gentry, clergy, and 
 professional men ; day pupils, of trades people, clerks, &c., 12752. 
 
 School Buildings : — Plan of premises and size of rooms ; school in good repair for habitation, 
 but requires a new set of floors throughout ; repairs the house himself, with occasional assistance ; 
 the Board of Governors painted the outside last year, 12747-9. 
 
 Course of Education : — Classics, science, and English ; the classical with reference to Trinity 
 Golieo-e entrance, 127G0 ; combines commercial education with the rest as far as possible ; French 
 tannht after school hours and at extra charge, 12761-4. Considerable difficulty in combining 
 classical and commercial education, where pupils not all going through both or same courses ; but 
 no ditKculty if there were a second or assistant master; has no assistant, 12765-7: manner in 
 which arrantrements could be made to obviate difficulty in giving combined eilucation in same 
 school 12768-70 ; importance of study of English, would make it essential and general ; and thinks 
 French should be taught to all, 12812-5, 12770-5. 
 
 As to obligation of Erasmus Smith masters to teach classics : terms of Charter ; never saw it, nor 
 rules ; wishes for information on the subject, 12776-9. 
 
 Renuirement of Charter rules as to religious instruction or catechising; never communicated to 
 him, 12783. Gives religious instruction every day to all scholars in schoolroom ; and on Sunday, 
 to boarders • but many coming from a distance are not in time for the religious instruction which 
 is early, at commencement of school before breakfast, 12784-92. Roman Catholic day scholars do 
 not attend religious instruction, 1278G-8. 
 
 In.spection of school, none; the registrar examines for him as a friend, but no ap])ointment 
 by Board ; makes returns to Board, 12750-1. Has never been furnished by Board of Governors 
 with the Charter or any rules for his guidance in management of the school, and they have never 
 inspected it, 12799-83, 12SU9. 
 
 Free scholars all adiuittcd and presented by Erasmus Smith Board, only, 12793; have been in 
 some years no free pupils ; nyt aware whether any application mads to Board during those years for 
 admission, none to himself, 12793-8 : notice issued by the Governors in 1854, as to application for 
 free ]ilacc»; introduction of free p»i>ils at that tin;e, five admitted in one half-year, 12799-808: 
 not aware of any condition as to residence of free j)upils within a certain distance, the Charter never 
 having been communicated to him ; they all resi<le in the town and wilhin two miles, 12809-11. 
 
 Discipline of School: — Nature of punishments, no flogging, 1275G-9. Prizes; the Board of 
 Governor.^ give meilals half-yearly, or annually; the head master gives prizes to the ])upils of 
 greatest proficiency ; the Archbishop of Dublin gives a prize annually for the best English essay, 
 open to competition by the several classical schools founded by Erasmus Smith, 12754-5. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Cnllinan, Ennis; Master's Prospectus of Drogheda School announces, that the 
 Primate gives prizes to be competed for by the pu])ils of all the grammar schools: never heard 
 of any in Ennis grammar school, 4083. Evidence of Dr. Kiiuj, master, Ennis, refers to an endea- 
 vour (if the Arclibisliop of Dublin to encourage English com|)oaitiou by a prizebook given by him 
 to the Erasmus Smith Gramiiuir Schools : subjeit named by the Primate and the Archbishop : prize 
 too small, 4108-9. — (Sec Emw, Erasmus Smith School.) 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Gcore/e Endrrick Lacy, Head blaster of Erasmus Smith Grammar School, 
 Drogheila : — Exhibitions for Trinity College, £8 to .C12, altogether too small and valueless to the 
 schools ; not worth while to study specially for them, and examination too difficult for boys of tho 
 age at wliicii they generally leave the school, 1281G; and have to compete in tho same examination 
 witli pupils of the Royal Seiiools whose Exhibitions arc far more valuable (i,'50) see Armagh and
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENX'E. 463 
 
 Drogheda, Erasmus Smilh Grammar School — continued. 
 
 other Royal Scliools) : wrote on tlio subject to the Erasmus Smith Board of Governors, but received 
 
 no answer; sugj^ostcd tliat the Exhibitions should f iliior be consolidated, and made fewer and nioro 
 valuable, or be given .sini|)ly as rewards to boys who iiiid j^ono tlirou;,'li kcIkjuI for a certain time with 
 •credit, so as to attract boys to the school; success of English grammar schools from emoluments 
 to be given away, 12817-22. 
 
 Probable ailvantages of throwing ojjon Exhibitions to widcrcoMiiJctiliun, i-ather tlian restricting 
 them to j>articular schools or classes of schools, 12823-7. 
 
 Endowments beneficial ; without them, schools like that of Droghcda conbl not be carried on at 
 all; the town would not support it; and without endowment he coidd not carry it on • thinks 
 })rivate enteriH-ize would not sujiply the want, 12S28-.j1 : endowments induce persons of sujiorior 
 etandiug and ability to become schoolmasters, and without them the oflice would fall into inferior 
 hands ; uncertainty of dejiendeuce on fees alone, 12832 -S. 
 
 Evidence as to j)roprictary schools in England, and their success; dilliculties in the way of 
 proprietary schools in Irelauil ; doubts whether Drogheda would support one : Dublin and Kin''s- 
 town might, and some of the large populous cities, 12845-58. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. JFiigh IfamUlon, Registrar and Inspector of Erasmus Smith Board, in reference 
 to Drogheda Erasmus Smith Grammar School, and the representations respecting it, 21716 21774 
 21779,21792,21797. o , , 
 
 Dromore, D:»fii, and Connor, Bishoj) of; see Down. — Diocesan School, Downpatrick ; see under 
 Dow/ipatric/i:. 
 
 DrumacJiose ; school discontinued. Evidence of .Tidin Barlow, Esq., Chairman, Treasurer, and Auditor 
 of Erasmus Smith Board, 19083 ; buihling and disposal of sites of schools discontinued, (see under 
 Erasmus Smith Board,) 19677-87. 
 
 Lease with clause roquirini> instruction in Church Caicchlsm, pae/e 317. 
 
 Drumhane ; school discontinneil. Evidence of .John Barlow, Esq., Erasmus Smith Board, 19081 
 19677-87 : — (see under Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 
 Drumcrutten, Co. Monaghan ; a school built by subscription on land granted by Lady Eossmore ; 
 schoolhouse standing, on two acres of ground, at nominal rent of 17s., but 2*. only paid : school not 
 in operation, 9289-9290. 
 
 Drumlange, Co. Mayo : 
 
 Robert Buchanan, Esq., j.p. : sujiposed endowment for a school at Drumlange, 0101-0. 
 
 Drumreilbi, Co. Leitrim : 
 
 Reported endowment of a house and garden given rent free by Sir Morgan Crofton, for a .school 
 at Drunircilly, G933 : llev. Peter Dawson cannot give further information ; in locality but a short 
 time, 0935 :— (and see CoraivaUcen School.) 
 
 Drumma, Co. Leitrim : 
 
 Infonnatio/i from 2'1'evions Inquiries: a school at AnnadufT, or in pari.sh of Annaduff, with endow- 
 ment under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 0920. 
 
 Present Inqidnj. — Letter from Rev. George Shaw, Rector of Annadufl"; considers the school 
 refericil to, to bo one established in Druuisna by late Mrs. AValdron, with a grant from Lord Lieu- 
 tenant; school long discontinued and house now occupied by Mr. Waldrou's caretaker, part bein" 
 used as Sessions-house, 6921. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James John Newport, Curate of Annaduff, — relates to present parochial school ; 
 not aware whether it had a grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 0922-8. 
 
 Evidence of John Duckworth, Esq., of Mountnorris, County Roscommon : — has seen the person 
 living in the Annadufl' schoolhouse ; Mr. and Mrs. Waldrou got aid from Lord Lieutenant's Fund 
 for the building now used as the parish school of AnnadulT, part of which is used as Sessions-house ; 
 it is in the town of Drumsua, in parish of Annadufl': the school alluded to by Mr. Newport is under 
 the Kildare-place Society, 0929-30. 
 
 Didilin : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken in Dublin, 
 13088, UOIS et seej., U825 et scq., 15911 et seq., 21902 et scq., 22348 et seq., 23402 et seq. 
 
 Hibernian Marino School ; see Hibernian. 
 
 Hospital and Free School of King Charles II.; King's Hospital, or Blue Coat Hospital, at Oxmau- 
 town; see O.rmantown. 
 
 Kevin-street School for Girls, under Incorporated Societ3'; suppressed, but charges in respect 
 of it : — Evidence of Rev. R. Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated bociety, 23310, 23398-406 ; see 
 under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Linenhall-street school ; discontinuance of. Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Inspector and 
 Registrar of Erasmus Smith Board, 24234, 24230. Evidence of John Barlow, Esq., Chairman, 
 Ac, of Erasmus Smith Board, 19074 et seq. : see under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Lombard-street ; evidence of Mr. Barlow, 19074 ; see under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Madam Mercer's School, Castleknock ; see Mercer. 
 
 Pleasant's Asvluni. — Memorial received by the Commissioners from Mr. Dowling, and statemcut 
 by him in reference to it, 22348-52. 
 
 Dublin University ; see Trinity College. 
 
 Duchvorth, John, Esq., Mountnorris, Co. Roscommon ; Evidence of, as to endowment for a school at 
 Annadufl" Co. Leitrim, now closed, and schoolhouse how appropriated (see Annaduff), 6929-30; as 
 to endowment for a school at Carrick-on-Shannon, 6871-3, 0877-80, GS94-0907 (see Carrick-on- 
 Shannon) : as to endowment for a school at Jamestown, Co. Leitrim (sec Janustown), 6833-8. 
 \ou II. 3 2
 
 464 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dudc/eon, Alerander, Esq., Monai^Lan, educated in Monagliau Diocesan School, under Dr. Moouey, 
 Master ; favourable evidence as to his conduct of the school, though he has heard unfavourable 
 opinions expressed (see under AIuhckjImu), iTDS9-9109. 
 
 Ditggan, James Bernard, Esq., one of the teachers of the Christian Brothers' Schools at Cork ; Evideneo 
 of, 1243-1354. 
 
 Christian Brothers conducting the schools, not ecclesiastics, but devote their lives to education 
 of the poor, 1246. 
 
 Extent of establisliments in Cork; a school in Peacock lane, and two bnitiehes, Blarney-Iane 
 and Sullivan's-quay ; ten schoolrooms, at least 1,300 boys deriving advantage from the .schools, 
 1246-50. 
 
 Extensive general course of iustructimi, in English, aritliinctic, algebra, geometry, niensuratcon, 
 geography, history, music, drawing, elements of natural pliiloso))liy ; religious instruction ; and for 
 the younger children, lessons on objects; sound and not superlicial instruction in these brauclies, 
 1251-1264, 1288-91, 1303-4. School hours, nine till three, 1209. 
 
 Classification of scholars, numbers and instruction in respecti\'e classes, ages, and mode of 
 advancemcut from class to class; 1251-08, 1305-25. Chihlren from the lower classes, labourers 
 and mechanics; few, if any, beyond that class, 1270; half without shoes, 1278-9: neglected 
 children, means of instruction, value of singing and music, 1254-6, 1292-6 ; importauce of drawing, 
 for mechanics; kind of drawing, and how managed, 1203-7, 1278-9, 1297-1302; advantages of 
 writing from dictation, 1322-5 : would decidedly object to introduction of classics for the class 
 of boys in the school, and reasons, 12320-7. 
 
 Beneficial eftect of the education given; does not disqualify them for a working life; success 
 and advancement of pupils in after-life ; constant demand for pupils for situations, 1280—7. Great 
 desire for admission to the schools; insufficient accommodation for all applicants; on one day 
 obliged to send away 100 children applying for admission ; contrived arrangements for admitting; 
 some of them, 1275-7. 
 
 Discipliue of the school ; very slight punishments, no floguing, no corporal punishment, except 
 slight slap on the hand, which is sufhcient to keep the school in order ; severest jmnishmeut, taking 
 the boy's jacket ofl"; the success of the school owing to religion, which is the whole secret oS 
 their power over the boys; attendance remarkably regular, the boys take pleasure in the sehoo?, 
 1342-8. 
 
 Means and ditficulty of securing cleanliness ; boys required to come clean, and in some instances 
 sent home to be washed; better than washing at school, for the sake of influence at home, 1349— 54>- 
 
 Limited means with which the course of instruction referred to is given to so many ])npils; 
 1,100 actually in attendance, the whole establishment supported by £380 a-year, including all tlie 
 common expenses of the Brothers for the maintenance of sixteen persons of the community, who 
 give their time gratuitously, 1328-41 : Corjioration of Cork formerly gave £50 a-year, but diseon- 
 tiuuedj being considered illegal ; afterwards given by a private benefactor, 1301-2. 
 
 Some of the children who are able, about 000, pay a halfpenny a-weok for pons, ink, slates, and 
 maps, (fee; average about 25s. weekly, (piitc suHicient for ordinary expenses, 1270. A leuiling 
 library also maintained, begun at a penny a-weck, now a halfpenny a-week, voluutary, from those 
 who borrow books, and is self-supporting; about 1,000 books, 1271-4. 
 
 Dundalk : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education in 
 Co. Louth, 12232 et scq. 
 
 Dundalk Endowed School, 12353-12359. 
 
 Incorporated Society's School, Dundalk, 12254-12352, 12372-12408. 
 
 DUNDALK ENDOWED SCHOOL. 
 
 Jo/m Xcville, Esq., County Surveyor : — Letter from ; alleged incompetency of late master to 
 teach mathematics, .and recommendation that masters should be required to obtain a certiiic.Hte of 
 qualification from a Board of Examiners, 12355. — Evidence, — refers to the Dundalk En<luwcd ScLtKil, 
 in Chapcl-lanc, but not to the j)resent master of it, 12350. 
 
 INCORPORATED SOCIETY'S SCHOOL, DUNDALK. 
 
 Informnl'ion from Reports of previous Inquiries, he, 9821, 12254-7. 
 
 An endowment left by Hon. Mrs. Anne Hamilton; difi'erently described as for a school at 
 Killinchy, 9821, and for a school at Dundalk, 12254-7. 
 
 Reported in 1808, as an estate in Barony of DuflVrin, county Louth, towidand of KilliueLy, 
 belonging to school at Dundalk, for girls alone ; nuuibcr in school, tw enty-three giils, 12254. Itcport 
 of 18.33 also states Mrs. Hamilton built a school at Dundalk, and cndoweil it with the lauds of 
 Killinchy; particulars of rental, 9821, 12250. 
 
 Re])ort of 1826 refers to the Dundalk Charter School, a free school, 100 girls, 12255. Repoitof 
 1835 state? that the annuity from the Killinchy estate had been allocated to Charter School at 
 Dundalk, — an aj)pro])riatioii allegeil not to be warranted by the will, 9821, 12257. 
 
 Children maintained, clothed, and apprenticed, 12257. 
 
 Present Inquirij. — As to Jlrs. Hamilton's will, which was not present at Lupiiry, 9834-5. 
 
 Evidence of the lieu. David Anderson, Presbyterian Minister of Killinchy, Co. Down, 9822-0835 : 
 no funds left by Mrs. Hamilton have been applied to education in ]iarish of Killinchy, 9824 : 
 rents of the lands of Killinchy collected by Mr. l'id''eon, on behalf of the Incorporated Sociolv. 
 9825-G. J J a , 1 J, 
 
 Evidence of Mr. John Turntr, master of the Incorporated Suciety's School at Dundalk, 12358- 
 12352. — Ninety-five scli(dari ; f()rt3'-twi) founil.Uion boarders, forty-two pay boarders, two of liis 
 own children, and nine day scholars, 12258-61. Charge for boarders, £15 a-ycar, 12308-9.
 
 INDKX TO EVIDENCP:. 4C5 
 
 Dundalli, Iixcorpo rated Society's School — continued, 
 
 Foiiiidation scholars selected from counties of Down and Loutli, paribljcs of Kcady (Co. Aiiiiagli) 
 and Ranioan (Co. Antrim), upon |mi>iie examination, 122G2-4 : standard of prcviou.s acquirements 
 pretty uniform, attention beinir .i^eneraily conlined to the subjects of exaniination, 12337-8. — Rules 
 as to admission, 12307-8. Keligicni of tlie children ; all received and treated as Protestants while 
 in the institution, attend church, and taui^'Iit eatechisni ; one Konimi Catholic boy, not recognized 
 as such, and reads the Scriptures, 12277-9, l2.:ill-5. 
 
 General course of education comprising mathematics, and sui-h as to c|u;ilifv for commercial 
 cmi)loymentH, mensuration, itc. ; chi'-sicsin after hours; naviLMtion i.ot taught, l22t>G, 12323-31. 
 
 ])iscipliuc of school : nature of punishments, 1 22S2 ; in case of grave olfenccs, flogging some- 
 times, where not expulsion, 12285, 12290 ; has flogged once in twelve months ; does not report 
 flogging to Local Committee, or catocliist, or otherwise, 12288-30). 
 
 No prizes, except admission to Santry Training School, to wiiich thrci' best an.swercr.s on 
 examination are s-nt annually, 122S0-1 : and catecliist gives jirizes in Scrii]lnres every year, 
 12281. Com|)etilion for Santry conllned to foundation boarders, day boys and jiay boanlers not 
 admitted, 1231(j~7. 
 
 Success in life of pupils gencrully satisfactory, 12332. Kot generally ajiprcnticed in IJundalk, 
 12318-9. As to demand for young ]>ersons educated in the school, 12319-22. Those who go to 
 Santry, distinguished for ability and gcod conduct, and get on remarkably well ; the prospect of 
 getting into Santry School a great stiinnlus to the boys, 12332-5. 
 
 Inspection of school: — weekly by catecliist, who examines children and the house, generally for 
 about tliree hours ; and Governors inspect by de[)utation from the Society ; reports of visitors and 
 catecliist, and return of numbers of boys, also sent up to them, 122G7-77. Local Committee, 
 12299 ; their suggestions transmitted to the Society, 1240G-8. 
 
 Buildings in go;)d repair; repairs by lueorporateil Society, 122G5-C. Defective lavatory 
 arrangements, 12305-Q. 
 
 Times and means of recreation for the boys, 12339-40: health, good ; one case of fever since he 
 came, in two years and a-half ; the doctor recollects sonic other cases of illness, very few; a doctor 
 and apothecary, paid by fixed .salaries, 123il-8. 
 
 Ki-klencc of Rei\ (leoiuje Stmldeit, Catecliist of the school: — AVas not aware of the flogging de- 
 scribed by master, which he should disapprove ; has no reason to think it fre<|ucnt or master severe, 
 1237.-7. Steps taken in regar<l to lavatory and other accommodation, which ho exjiects will soon 
 be improved; want of funds he believes heretofore; has fre<[uently rcjiorted it to the Board, but 
 without reply, 12378-93. 
 
 Recommendations or suggestions of Local Committee transmitted to Society, 12402-5. 
 
 System of examination for admission to the institution works well ; stimulus to boys anrl to 
 masters of schools sending them ; h<iw conducted, 12293. Many applications for vacant places in 
 school; many boys from the school in employments, and good accounts of them generally, 12393-7. 
 
 Endcace of the II m. Augiidus Joceh/n, a member of the Local Committee of the scliool : — Com- 
 mittee have on several occasions made recommendations to the Society as to deficiencies in school 
 conveniences and other matters, which have not been attended to by the Society, and no notice 
 taken ; Committee of no use, their power so circumscribed and so little attention by the Board in 
 Dublin, and he for one intends to give up unless a difi'erent course be taken, 12399-401. 
 
 Demand for boys educated at the establishment, who have turned out remarkably well, 12399. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Somerset L. C. yo(t;«i'en(?. Incumbent of Louth : — Objection to rule of admission, 
 ■which requiris that the children must come from a school in which every child reads the Scriptures 
 daily; militates against the National Schools, and hardship of excluding Protestant children 
 educated in tlio.se schools, 12349-51. 
 
 _ r, n\ DUNQANNON KuTAL SCHOOL. 
 
 Dungannon,\.o. lyrone: — ■ 
 
 Jtifnrnuitina from Report.^ of picrioiis Inquiries, <tc. : — Letters Fa'dit, of 13 .Tas. I., founding Free 
 School at Dungannon for Co. Tyrone, and appointing schoolmaster, / o.c/c 338. Charter of Charles I. 
 (anno 1G27) ; grant of lands "for the Free School at the town of Mountjoy," Co. Tyrone, 11720-1. 
 Act of 53 Geo. 3, c. 107, its provisions, 1 1724 ; (chief conditions of Charter and jirovisions of Act, 
 as under other Royal Schools; sue AiiiuKjh, &v.) School transferied to or built at Dungannon, 
 11721. — Management of estate and value of endowment, number of pupils, state of buildings, 
 repairs, etc., at various times, 11723, 11725-41: 3 Geo. 4, c. 70, enabling Commissioners to 
 apply the balance of funds of one school to another, 11727. Exhibitions for students of merit 
 from Royal Scluuds to Trinity College, established; for Dungannon, five annually at £50 a-year, 
 and five at £30 a-year, for five ^"ear.s, 9348. 
 
 .\feti.orial to Lord Lieutenant from inhabitants of Dungannon ar.d other places in Tyrone, similar 
 to that from Armagh and vicinity as to Armagh School (see AruuKjh), complaining of misapjdica- 
 tion of endowment and non fulfilment of trust, "refusal of free education, unsuitability of school and 
 education afl'ordcd in it for any but the higher classes, and high charges, 11742. 
 
 Leiler from Rev. F. W. Itinawood, head master, in answer to memorial, and controverting its 
 statements, 11743. 
 
 Letter from Clare-street Commissioners of Education in answer to memorial. 11744. 
 
 Present Inquiri/. — Letter from Mr. Lilburn, Dungannon, compluiuing of the co.-^t and manage- 
 ment of the school, and treatment of free pupils, 11747. 
 
 Rev. Frederick Howe Ringwood, head master of the .school :— Evidence, 11749-11879; written 
 connnunication as to combination of clas.sical and commercial education in schools, 11821. SchooJ- 
 houso not in goad repair on his appointment, has been put in repair under his direction, the Clare- 
 street Commissioners allowing a certain amount, and the Primate giving £400, the Commissioners 
 having refused to allow certain expenses incurred; additions ar.d alterations of buildings; arrange- 
 ment of dormitories so as to provide a separate sleei>ing comj artnicnt and conveniences for each boy, 
 11752-9.
 
 466 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IKELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Dungannon, Eoyal School — continued. 
 
 Number of pupils, sixty; of wlioni twcnty-sevoii boarders and tlurty-tbrcc day scliolars, the latter 
 including sixteen free pupils; could accomiuodate nio-e boarders, 11760-3. Terms for boarders, 
 11809-10 : domestic arrangements, 11759, 11811-7. 
 
 Pupils from almost all classes of society ; a large number for the army, tlie bar and the cliurcli, 
 medicine, engineering, and trade, 11792-3. Chiefly Cliurcli of England I'rotestants, some Presby- 
 terians, Methodists, and one Quaker; has had llonian Catholics; no objection ever made to his 
 school on religious grounds, 11787-91. DiiKculty as to admission of Pioman Catholics as boarders, 
 11790, 11S23-4, 11831 ; suggestions as to overcoming this dilEculty, 11830-5; no difficulty in 
 regard to day scholars, 11830. 
 
 Free pupils selected by master ; had no instructions about free pupils on his appointment ; selected 
 on ground of general aptitude for instruction, good character and talent, and inabilitv of parents to 
 pay ; has not refused free boys even in case of a parent able to pay, 1 1704-7, 1 1852-3. Complaint 
 of Mr. Lilburn, keeper of Ranfurlej' Arms, as to treatment of free boys, unfounded and unjustifiable ; 
 no distinction between them and others ; free bo3's, some of the best conducted and most promising ; 
 not even known except to himself which are free boys, 11768-71, 11809 : previous transactions 
 with Mr. Lilburn, 11772-4, 11810. 
 
 Discipline of school : — Very little corporal punishment, and only for gross lying or theft, <tc. ; 
 very unfrequent ; never stripped a boy : does not report cases of punishment, 11775-82. Fines 
 for absence after expiration of vacation ; pupils return more regularly, 11804, 1180G. 
 
 Encouragements. — Examinations twice a-year, 11784 : — Prizes of books to most proficient; 
 master sought aid from Commissioners to make them more valuable, but the prizes are given by 
 master himself, 11783-6. 
 
 Exhibitions, supra. 
 
 Library belonging to school, of advanced classical books, not fit for use of boys, and such as he 
 hopes never to read himself, 1 lSOl-2. — No library for use of boys for reading; often lends the boys 
 books from his own ; anxious to get such a library ; commencement to very small extent ; fines 
 for absence for longer than allowed vacation ajiplicd to purchase of instructive and amusing books, 
 but fines make them return regularly, aud consequently little means from this source ; would be 
 afraid to attempt subscriptions from bo3's, 11803-8. 
 
 Course of instruction : — includes classics, mathematics, and modern languages, in ordinary school 
 hours ; Greek, Latin, Hebrew, French, German, ancient and modern history, and English educa- 
 tion generally, 1 1794-800 ; has a few pupils receiving English education only ; only two boys who, by 
 desire of their parents, learn no language besides their own, sons of Presbyterian clergymen, 11796-7. 
 
 Combination of classical and commercial or mercantile education ; some enter university and 
 profession.?, others go to commerce and mercantile life ; written statement of his views on the sub- 
 ject, 11818-21. Classical and commercial education not antagonistic; dead-language system alone, 
 altogether inadequate to wants of present day ; mode of combining necessary parts of classical 
 course with modern education ; modification of course prescribed by Clare-street Commissioners of 
 Education ; practicability aud advantages of combining the two systems of education j further detail 
 of course recommended, 11821. 
 
 A real educational want in this country, of an intermediate class of schools in towns and populous 
 localities, above the primary or national schools, to impart a higher order of education in practical 
 sciences, and also to fit pupils for admission to free places in the Royal and similar schools, and in 
 Queen's Colleges, or enable them to go direct to their future occupations, 11821, 11858. 
 
 Practicability of an extensive course of education, in variety of branches, with.out the know- 
 ledge acquired being superficial, 11872-9. 
 
 Proprietary schools; unlikelihood of their successful establishment in Ireland as in England, 
 11821, 11854-7. 
 
 Masters and assistant masters, their position and improvement :-^Want of inducements and 
 rewards for masters and assistants, by promotion and placing the schools on a proper footing, 
 11825-6. As to making them independent of boarders, by means of liberal salaries, 11827-8; as 
 to boarders living with as.-;i.«lant masters or elsewhere; difficulty regarding boys of difl'erent reli- 
 gious denominations, 11828-35. As to retiring pensions after a certain number of _ycar.s, or 
 change by promotion to other schools, 11836-7. As to qualifications of assistants, in regard to 
 future advancement to nuistcrship ; objections to examination alone; qualifications required which 
 cannot be tested by a public examination, 11837-51. 
 
 I'robable efltcts of throwing open appointments in civil, military, and nav.al service, to public 
 conijiotition of j'ouths from all .'cliools ; would bo beneficial to education generally, but doubts 
 ■whether it is the most wholesome stimulus ; differonco between this and present system of exhibi- 
 tions ; risk of attention being given to specialties only, and of more general course leading to super- 
 ficial knowledge only ; effects on masters and on pupils, 11859-79. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyh; Secretary of Clare-street IJoard ; of Mr. Fithcrslon, Solicitor of the 
 Board ; of Mr. Wmu}, Agent of Estate ; as to superintendence of lloyal School.s, management of 
 Estates, excessive aud unnecessary law costs for notices to quit, (fcc, see under Commimioners of 
 Education. 
 
 l)m-ne, Counsellor ^(//(H, Dublin : Endowment for a school at Killcad, Co. Antrim : lost, (see Kilhad,) 
 10301, 10302 e/ /.(-r/. " 
 
 Diimcomle, Rev. Kicholas ColtUurst, a trustee and treasurer of school of St. Nicholas, Cork, (Moses 
 Dcane's endowment), 2038-2081, 2090-1, 231. 'i-S. 
 
 Satisfactory slate of school, very creditable ; its efficiency attributed Iiy him mainly to selection 
 of the master, who was obtained by public advertisement ; a great advantage, on any vacancy, to 
 advertise for candidatc-i as widely as possible, 2078-81. 
 
 Visitation of scho(d by clergymen frequent, three or four times a-weck; catechetical examina- 
 tion weekly; advautiigcs to the school, of regular and frequent clerical visitation, and its sniicrior 
 regulation in consequence, 2069-75, 2077.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 4G7 
 
 Dunscomhe, Rev. Nicholas Co/l/innl, Curk,— cuiitiiiucil. 
 
 Importanoc of ];iy agency to assit^t in school nianagoment; eoimnittnp, constituted of clergy, 
 cLurclnvariliiiH, anil laymen, '20i(j : anil great advantages of domiciliary visitation of cliildren by 
 laymen and clergy; shortest way to children through the parents at home: uecessity of lay 
 assistance; where nicroliants and other gentlemen cm give time and take an interest, no more 
 important way of doing public good ; wishes lay help, not for religious instruction nor as scripture 
 readers, L'3 1.5-8. 
 
 Public baths for access of ])oor boys of all the schools of the city would be a great advantage ; 
 the children themselves well pleased with cleanliness, 2090-1. 
 
 See further as to school accounts, audit, management, &c., under Curl: 
 
 Dunv'dle, William, Esq., merchant, Belfast, Evidence of, 1048G et seq. : — Want of greater facility for 
 the acquirement of modern languages, not alone for purposes of travelling, but for commerce ; 
 many merchants in Belfast receiving letters in French and German, &c., require foreign corres- 
 pondents ; and demand for mechanics to go to the continent; of great value to them to know 
 .something of French and German, 10487 : want of evening classes to give mechanics an o])por- 
 tunity of learning tlieni and the elements of science generall}', 10487 ; opening for promotion in 
 mills, ifec, to persons having a knowledge of mechanics and machinery, lO/iOl ; not sullicient 
 facilities for these objects in Belfast, 1018S-9. Desirable that evening instruction should bo 
 established aud made more permanent, and not dependent on the chance support of a Mechanics' 
 Institution, 10480. Insullicient attention to modern languages in the universities, 104D1-2. 
 Evening classes for young females employed in factories, ic., 10494-9. Feeling as to a rate or 
 tax for education, 10500-1. 
 
 Durrow, Queen's Co. : — (Durrow School.) 
 
 Reports of previous inquiries ; endowment grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund for a school at 
 Attanagh or Altana, Durrow, 4738-4744. 
 
 Correspondence with Rev. Samuel Madden, Incumbent of Attanagh, Durrow : present school has 
 no endowment, and is under the Church Education Society, Kildare-place, 4737, 4740, 4743. 
 
 In all cases of grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, laud required in perpetuity, 4745 : probability 
 of police-barrack being on school site, 4743-4. 
 
 Early, Mr. Patrick, resident at Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, in reference to lands left for educa- 
 tion, but applied to other purposes, 19SG0-913, 20047-C5 : holds laud and identifies plot, three 
 aud a-half acres, with No. 3 in map of 1797 of " school lands," 19862-3 ; niiil premises at back of 
 liis, 19804; never paid any rent, 198G5 ; particulars of holdings of his father and brother, his 
 father's will, litigation, 19806 et s?q., as to houses built by his father, &c., 198G7, 20047-65 : — (see 
 under Swords, Hewitson Endowment.) 
 
 Eaton, Miss Catlierine, Bequest, Wicklo-w ; see Wich'ow. 
 
 Ecdcs, Rev. Ju/ni Gilh'rt, Curate of St. Peter's, Drogheda ; Evidence of, as to Blue Boys School, 
 Drogheda, and defects therein, 12GS3-718. Extent and character of his visitation of the school, 
 12G82-5, 12694-8, 12714-8 :— (see xin<{<iv Droyhcda) 
 
 Edyeworth (Rev. Essex), Endowment for a school at Teuiplemichael, Co. Longford : see Templemichacl. 
 
 Education, general state of, and provision for, in various localities, and its inadequacy. Evidence 
 (see under the rcspxtive iiam^s,) as to want of schools for middle classes, and suggestions. 
 
 Antrim, Co. of: Bishop of Down, 10475, and Letter from the Bishop containing suggestion.?, 
 2ia</e-d03; Duiici'U; 10486; JfCosh, 10514; Porter, 10549; Wilso7i, IQbil. 
 
 Armagh : Eir/i, 0639. 
 
 Belfast : Bishop of Down, 10475, j^age 303 ; Dunville, 10486 ; M'Cosh, 10514 ; Purler, 10519 ; 
 mison, 10547. 
 
 Carrick-on-Shanuon, Co. Li.itrim : Cox, 6065,6983; Dawson, 6037,6972, 6999; Percy, 
 6956, G991. 
 
 Castlebar, Co. Mayo : Buchancni, G173 ; Conry, G233 ; M'Greal, 6149, G258, 6290 ; ^toney, 6115, 
 C268, 6298. 
 
 Clare, Co. of: Cullinan, 4094; Knox, 4128. 
 
 Clonmel, Co. Tipperary : Grahb, 1080 ; Hughes, 1108 ; Jfakomson, 1050. 
 
 Cork : Bullai, 2002. 
 
 Downpatrick, Co. Down : Xihon, 10284. 
 
 Dublin : Murray, 23487 ; Thorn, 23.^18; WM, 23463. 
 
 Ennis, Co. Clare: CuUinan, 4094; Kno.c, 4128. 
 
 Enniskillen, Co. Fennanagh : Bloomfdd. 12209 ; lluyhes, 12219 ; Porter, 12198, 12207 ; Trimble, 
 11911, 12205. 
 
 Fermanagh : 5?oo7n^e?ii, 12209; Ewjhes, 12219; Pw'to-, 12108, 12207; Trimble, 11011, 12205. 
 
 G.alway : Blalceney, 6025 ; Daly, 5002. 
 
 Kildare: De Biuv/h, 14012; Hayes, 13948, 13062; Ilichy, 13978; Kcllett, 14003. 
 
 Loitrim : Cox, 6965, 6983; Dawson, 6937, G972, 6999; Percy, 695G, 6901. 
 
 Limerick : Burke, 4680 : E!mcs,'>6i'3 ; Franklin, 4G12 ; .Murray, 4147 ; O'Shea, 2397 ; Revimton, 
 4214. 
 
 Londonderry: Fergmon, 11003. 
 
 Longford : 'Pauion, 7739, 7751 ; Stritch, 7G99, 7743. 
 
 Maryborough, Queen's Co., Butler, 5133 ; Cassan,5l\S; Harpur, 5130 ; Talbot, 5193. 
 
 Mayo: Buchanan 6173; Conry, 6233; M'Ch-eal, 6149, 6258, 6290; Stoncy, 6115, 6248, 6298. 
 
 Meath : Power, 13019. 
 
 Naas, Co. Kildare: De Burgh, 14012; Ilaijc?, 13948, 13962 ; Ilickey, 13078; Kellett, 14003. 
 
 Navan, Co. Meath : Power, 13019. 
 
 Omagh, Co. Tvrone : Alexand-r, 115G; Chapman, 11453. 
 
 Queen's Co. : Bntler, 5135; Cassan, 5118; JLirpur, 5130 ; Ta'bot, 5193. 
 
 Roscommon : Warburion, 7313. 
 
 Sligo: Clarke, G748 ; Jloman, GG90 ; Kidd, G579 ; M-Enlir, 6777; 0'Conn:r, 6712; Tucker, 
 6739; Shone, 6G51.
 
 468 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Edncalbm, general xfale of — continuctl. 
 
 Ti!>pcrary : Grn'h, 1080; Ilnf/lics, llOS; JIfalcommi. 1050. 
 
 Tyrowo:' Alexander, ll-Jofi; Chapman, 114o3 ; Dioon, paj,'o.s 333-336. 
 
 ■\Vicklow : Browniiijrj, 13G91 ; Maingay, 137G5. 
 
 Course of iustruction in respective scliools ; se<; imifcr Ihf itamfs qfsc/iooh: 
 
 Comliiiied education ; coiiiiiiercial or mcrc;uitile, mul for universities or professions, in same 
 scliool ; see umler Coinh'iia'.ion. 
 
 Jlixcd education ; different religious denominations in same scliool ; see under Rdijion. 
 
 Intermediate schools, or scliools for middle classes, between the primary schools and collc:,^'s ; 
 see Coioifi/ Schools, and Tntovudiate Schools. 
 
 Education Bate : see Rale. 
 
 Egan, Rov. Mr., p.p. Gloghan, King's Co. ; letter as to Banagher Eoyal School (usually called 
 Cuba Scliool), King's Co. ; long ceased to be a free school for those for whom intended, and since 
 death of previous master, in 1S17, has gone down, 5277. — (See Banagher.) 
 
 Ekins, Elha, formcrlv a school girl in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, as to woik 
 for schoolmistress after school hours without pay (see under Swords), 15-13-1 et leq. 
 
 E!qee,'Q.c\. llichard Waddi/, Rector of Wexford ; Evidence of, as to the Eiasmus Smith Schooi at 
 Wexford 487, 'i'iO-5. 'J'Le Scriptures read during school hours, but catechetical iustruction after, 
 487. Success in after life of pujiils, -who generally have turned out remarkably well for their cla-is 
 inlifc, 520 5. 
 
 Evidence and return of, as to Tate's endowment (see under Wexford), for education at Wexford, 
 421, 424, 434-40, 448-50. Return as to particulars of information reipiired, "nil." but refers to 
 Bequest Board, 421. Produces a document containing extracts from will of William Tate, 424. 
 Reasons of delay in :ippl_ying the bequest, 439. Was empowered by trustees in April, 18.j3, to look 
 out for a site, none eligible ofi'ered. lias thought it better to allow the fund to accumulate, 434 : 
 has no accounts or I'ocuniciits, 440-0. Nothing in the will to show its applicability to education 
 of children of Roman Catholics, 448-50. Inference on this point from the will, 449. Will will bo 
 carried out according to the letter ; mode of selecting children, ic., given in the will, 434-5. 
 Elliott, Rev. Charles, Rallintubber, Athy ; Communication from, relative to Mrs. Carr's endowment 
 for a school at Callyadanis, Queen's County, with copy of will, 5073-4. Evidence of; endowment 
 not in operation ; contested, and litigation threatened ; schoolhouse formerly in existence, but 
 levelled by landlord, who refused to give information, 507G-5090. 
 E'lioit, Edward, I'l^q., Solicitor, AVatcrford : — Evidence of; as to Waterford Corporation Free School ; 
 Legacy of Bi.>hop Millcs, (see under Wa/nfoid), 305-81, 413. 
 
 As to Kilmeadcn School, Co. Waterford ; lit^gntion, sale of jiroperty and jiroceeJirgs in the 
 case, (see KUmeudsii), 382. 
 Elmes, Rev. Thomas, Curate of Killcaly, Co. l.imcrick; master of a day school; Evidence relative 
 to the Limerick Diocesan School, and general state and course of education, 2034 ei seq. 
 
 Keeps a school, a competitor of Jlr. Hogg's (Diocesan School, see LimerieJc) : favourable opinion of 
 inana"-cuieiit :r.;d instruction in his school, but never personally in it, 2034-42. Mr. Elmos' college 
 career, and experience and success in teaching, 2G35, 2043-4, 2055, 2GG2 et seq. 
 
 Always I'lvcs a classical and commercial education ; no objection to combining them ; ought 
 always "to be combined, 2044-5, Further evidence on this subject ; course of such instruction 
 detailed, 2G 10 ei seq. 
 
 Modern languages; their importance in regard to commercial employment,--, 2G48-."0. Mensu- 
 ration and navigation not in much demand, 2G52. Chisjics and mathematics useful, even for 
 commercial pursuits: education for a merchant should be of high character; a goo;l classical edu- 
 cation connected with account.s necessary; combination practicable, from experience, 2053-4. Not 
 much demand for a high commercial education in Limerick, 2G05 et seq. As to boarilers, and 
 payments in advance, 205G-9. Many i>arents in Irelaud send their sons to bo educated in the great 
 schools in Enudand ; "-reat desire for English cdncati(ni in Ireland, 2G59-G1. If there was a go(jd 
 boardin" school in Limerick, parents in other parts of Ireland would send their children to it, 2075. 
 Elphiii, Dean of, Very Rev. William Warbnrton; see Warburtem, 
 E'lJhin, Co. Ro.sconimon : 
 
 Elpliin Diocesan School, 7330-7448. 
 
 Bishop Ilodson's Endowment for a Grammar School at Elpliin, 7223-7312. 
 
 General state of education and provision for same ; Dean Warburton's evidence (sec Warhurton), 
 7313-35. 
 
 m.piiiN moci!s.\N' sciiooi.. 
 
 Stale of the law for the erection and sui)))ort of diocesan scliools, (.see under Diocesan Schools,)! HZG-7. 
 
 hiformctioii fiom reports of jirevious Jnqriric.i as to this school, 7338-9 : — endowments reported 
 in IblO anil 1821, a house and fifteen acres of land, and bcquc-t of £10 a-ycar in addition to salary 
 of £30 a-year to master, 7223, 7338 9 ; in 1820, master received £25 a-ycar fiom a bequest, 7339 ; 
 in 1831, .salary and cinolunients £90 18;!. 51., 7339. Numbers of pupils at various times, boarders, 
 day scholars, and free pupils ; in 1820, ten rrotestants ai:d nine Roman Catholics, 7339. (As to 
 endowment.i, see bdoa', vnder liidiop IIudMii's Eiuhvmcnl for a Grammar School at Elphin.) 
 
 Present Inr/viri/: — Returns from Commi.^sionrrs of Educati(jn. and from master of the school ; Com- 
 missioni r.s do not return any endowment from land or ]5ishop Ilodson's endowment (see below), 7340. 
 
 Evidence, if l!ei\ Hugh J. Fli/nn, Matter, aa to Elphin Diocesan School, 7341-7434, 7447-8 : 
 (Evidence a.s to Bi/^hoj) Ilodson's Emlowmcnt, ////'/•((.) — l-iighlcen pupil.s, of whom fifteen boarders, 
 thirteen day scholars ; no free pu))ils, 7311 -.3. Boanlers all j'rolestants, day boys Roman Catholics, 
 7344. Day boys chiefly sons of farmers jibout Elphin ; one got tlie gold medal at King's College, 
 Lomlon, out of 150 or 152 candidate.-, 735G, 7391-2 ; no other classical school nearer than Athloue, 
 7367-8.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 4G9 
 
 Elpliin : — Di'/cesan Schonl — continued. 
 
 No olijection to his scliool on rclii^'ioiis rfroiincls : no interference with rcli^'ion of Roman Catliolics ; 
 Las hail Roman Catliolic boarders, at one time a majority ; arrangement for their religious instruction 
 735y-Gl. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — jirincijially classical, science, and commercial education, Engli.'jli and 
 French ; particulars of the branches of instruction, 7353-5, 731)2-4 ; supposed interference of 
 classical reqtiircnionts of university with projier instruction in English branches, and in-nllicicnt 
 attention to English in conse(|nencc, 710G-24. Alleged difliculty of arranjrin" for conibineil 
 instruction of pupils in classics and commercial education concurr(^ntly, 7400, 740!), et seq. 
 
 Di.scipliue of schocd ; nature of punishments, 7378 ; corj>oral j)Mnishments beyond pandies resorted 
 to seldom, and only in extreme cases; flogged only once during three years ; does not report 
 punislinionts to any one ; never received any circular to masters from Clare-street Commi.ssioncrs ; 
 is not required to report punishments, 7372-8. 
 
 Inspection of school, none ; a great drawback to the school ; merely makes a rftiirn annually 
 to the formal queries of the Clare-street Board of Education Comniis.^ioners, 73.51-2. Commis- 
 sioners have never interfered with him in management of the school in a sinirle respect, except 
 sending down for annual returns, and no inspection whatever, so that he may do as he likes, and 
 work the school or not, 7371. 
 
 No instructions as to his duties received on his appointment ; has no rules for his "uidanoc ' no 
 persons to direct or supervise, 7389-90. 
 
 Free pupils ; considers their admission optional with himself; not under any obligation to admit 
 7387-8 : Never had any comnuinication with Commissioners on the subject, further than the annual 
 returns ; for the first two years, one ; last year, returned one ; no conimnnications from Conimis- 
 siouers on these returns, nor any wish expressed as to admission of fi'ce pupils, 7307-70 • number 
 now, nil, 73-43 ; no free pupils since withdrawal of Bishop Hodson's endowment ividi' infra) from the 
 diocesan scliool, 7223. Applications for admission of free pupils ; refused one from a clero-yman 
 at 13oyle, 7379-80 : was not the clergyman's son ; has educated clergymen's sons free, 7434. 
 
 Endowments reported {vide supra) ; a good liouse and fifteen acres of land; master returns ten 
 acres, but never got it surveyed ; pays a nominal rent of £4 12.v. Crf. for the house and land, 7425-8. 
 Receives a salary of £72, or £73, about £80 Irish, paid by Clare-street Commissioner,^ and beneficed 
 clergy of the diocese, 7429-32, 7448. Salary pai<l by clergymen in sums of Gs., 10s., and 12s., 7447. 
 Clergy derive no benefit in return, 7433. 
 
 Sehoolliouse in a most pitiable state, for want of repairs ; presentment for repairs refused by 
 Grand Jury, on the ground that there are no free pupils and master ought to keep his own house iu 
 repair, 7345-50. Formerly a presentment was made for repairs, in 1844, ^\hen his father was 
 master, 7346-7. Grounds on which ])resent master applied for presentineiit, 7362 : Grand Jury 
 consider the Act not compulsory and objected that his application was for kcepinir a private school 
 in repair ; terms of admission, 7302-5. 
 
 Would CO operate in a modification of the system; if exhibitions were attached to the school 
 ■would educate a certain number free ; thinks that a fair proposition on his part, 7366. 
 
 Evidence of Edmoml Kelhj, Esq., J. P. : — Application for £150 to repair diocesan school refused 
 by Grand Jury on the ground that the public receive no benefit whatever from the school, and 
 should not pay any ])art of its expenses ; refused at special or road sessions, and afterwards br 
 Grand Jury at assizes, 7435-40: arrangements relating to free jiupils influenced Grand Jury"; 
 moucy was formerly granted to build the house and afterwards for repairs, but then there were 
 free pupils, 7441 ; thinks the Grand Jury would present if a moderate number of pupils had tho 
 advantage of the institution, 7443 ; and the clergy should receive some advantage in the education 
 of their sons, as they contribute to the funds, 7444-6. 
 
 BISHOP hodson's endowment FOU a GRAMMAU school at KLPHIJf. 
 
 Very Rev. William Warburton, Dean of Elphin ; letter from, 7224 ; evidence of, as to Bishop 
 Hodson's endowment, 7201-7312 : as to general state of education and provision for same (see under 
 Far6«?-to«), 7313-35. 
 
 Rev. Samuel Crookshanks, Ardmore ; letter from, calling attention to the lands from which the 
 endowment is derived, 7225, 727G-S. 
 
 Rev. Ijouis H. Streane, late Archdeacon of Elphin, one of the trustees; letter from ; bequest in 
 no way connected with the diocesan school, though its master received it, and its objects diflerent 
 7226. 
 
 Rev. W. Digby, a trustee ; communication from ; unable to afford any information, 7227. 
 
 Rev. Htiijh J. Flynn, master of diocesan school ; evidence of as to Bishop Hodson's endowment 
 722S-G0, 7267, 7270-1, 7280, 7292, 7290, 7303, 7308. Appointment of bis father .as schoolmaster 
 under Bishop Hodson's endowment, " so long as he ])erforra3 the duties thereof, and conforms to the 
 regulations," ic, 72-'i4. His father unable for a year and a-half or two years to fulfil the duties 
 and sent in his resignation, 7238. 
 
 Complains of withdrawal of the endowment allowance of i'20 a-year to his father, on his resig- 
 nation, bis father liaving become unable from paralysis to perforin the duties; considers the 
 appointment a title-deed, and did not suppose the office would have been taken from him, 7228-60. 
 Duties performed by witness as his assistant, 7230, 7240. Seven children free, taught in a cottage 
 separate from the diocesan school, for an hour or two iu the morning, from half-past six till nine 
 after which they attended the diocesan school, where he also acted for his father, as master 
 7241, 7248-7258. ' 
 
 Distinction between diocesan school and Bishop Hodson's school, 7245-7 : gives up the com- 
 plaint, 7247, 7259. 
 
 Dean Warhurion : Evidence in reference to complaint of Air. Flynn, who was mistaken : after his 
 father's resignation received a letter claiming pay for a year and u-'ialf, during which his fiither'a 
 Vol. II. ' 3 p
 
 470 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Eljykin : — Bishop Hodson's Endowment — continued. 
 
 connection with the schools had altogether ceased ; c^^ected to, but agreed that he should formally 
 resign the school, and receive the year and a-half's payment, 7261. 
 
 Statement of Dean Warburton as to Bishop Hodson's endowment: grant in 1085 for the main- 
 tenance of a grammar school in town of Elpliio, for teaching children of the town whose parents 
 are poor, gratis; mismanugenient of the bequest, wortli £150 a-year, proceeds being only £20 
 a-year during present lease, and misapplication of it to the diocesan school ; on resignation of late 
 master of diocesan school, this fund withdrawn from it, and nov7 accumulating till expiration of 
 lease, on fall of au existing life, with a view to the erection and maintenance of a school in accord- 
 ance with the donor's intention, 7224, 7261. 
 
 Evidence showing that the diocesan school and the school intended by Bishop Hodson, had nothing 
 to do with one another, and that he did not intend tliey should ho united, but on the contrary, 
 intended to found a separate and additional school to supply the want in tiie country which the 
 diocesan school did not supply, 72G2-71. 
 
 Letter of Bishop of Kilmore approving withdrawal of the funds from the diocesan school, wiih 
 a view to their accumulating to form a building fund for erection of a school in accordance with 
 the special directions of the will ; trustees named accordingly, 7272. 
 
 Question as to right of appointment of master, heretofore exercised by Bishop ; whether vested 
 in Bishop or in Dean and Cliapter ; terms of deed, 7224, 7264, 7275. 
 
 Value of endowment, from which £20 a-year has heretofore been received ; lands, 565 acres ; 
 Poor Law Valuation, £335, half of which will be available for Bishop Hodson's school, besides 
 the fund accumulating, 7224, 7276-7 : improvident arrangements heretofore made, course proposed 
 for the future, 7278-89. 
 
 Endowment for a "grammar school" for teaching: the poor gratis, 7277, 7290 ; terms no longer 
 applicable to present state of the country, and application proposed to be made to Lord Chancellor 
 to relax the terms, and settle a scheme to be submitted to him for a school suitable to the wants of 
 the time, and to the design of the benefactor ; outline of plan, 7290, 7302, et seq. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION AND PROVISION FOR SAME. 
 
 Evidence of Dean Warburton on this subject ; see under Warbuiion. 
 Ely, Viscountess ; Endowment by, at Monasterevan, see Monasterevan. 
 
 Emigration: application of school funds to. Waterford, Foi/ School, Bishop of Cashel, 17146-7. 
 Swords, 14477-96. i/a^fA^/'a/isZi, Eaiuey Endowment, /lojre 317. 
 
 Emlafadd (Ballymote), Co. Sligo : 
 
 Parliamentary Return (1823,) mentions a school in union of Emlafadd, having an acre of ground 
 rent free from Bishop of Killala, and supported by aid from Incumbent, and Parish and London 
 Hibernian Sunday School Society, 6.jOG. 
 
 Letters from Mr. W. Phibbs, SeaGeld ;— school has not existed for forty years : in lands conveyed 
 to him by Ecclesiastical Commissioners, an acre reserved for a schoolhouse, stated to have been 
 never built ; has paid rent for the land to present time, 6306, 6318. 
 
 Kev. Arthur Moore, Vicar of Emlafadd: — Letter from, 6305 ; Evidence, 6307-6321. — Acre of 
 o-round by churchyard handed by Bishop to Incumbent for a school, diverted from its purpose, and in 
 occupation and use of Mr. Phibbs, to whom sold by Ecclesiastical Commissioners, 6305-6309 ; a house 
 on the land, originally intended for schoolhouse, let by Mr. Phibbs to a tenant, 6310-3 ; would not 
 be a convenient spot now for a school, but still the ground belongs to the parish, 6316-21. 
 
 Emploijnunl in schools : — 
 
 For purposes of industrial or agricultural training; Bownpatrirk, Hajroll, 989-')-7, 10022-30' 
 Teer, 10156-8; girls employed in shirt-making, it;-., for the boys, to the neglect of school instruc- 
 tion, MolhM, 10048-50 ; Quade, 10219-30; sometimes work for schoolmistress, 10222-48. 
 
 Trades, &c., taught to boys ; Gwj/n InstitutioH, 11046-56, 11063. Manufactures intended, but 
 not taught, at Swords ; see Swords. Agriculture taught; Primrose Orarigr, 6801-3. 
 
 Bishop Pococke's Weaving School, Kilkenny; see under Kilhenny. 
 
 Employment of girls in needlework, &c., how conducted, Cork, St. Peter School, Burke, 2234- 
 49 ; sec Cork. 
 
 Abuses in the employment of girls at Swords Borough School, (see Swords): at Raphoe, Church 
 Education Society, FuUerton, 11149-52. In work of the house, making their clothes, itc., Ros- 
 common, Fitzgerald, 7121-5. Shinrone, Savage, 5253. Tubrid, 1218G. Waterford BIm School, 
 Carew, 623-4. Pallasgreen, Murphy, 4462-4. 
 
 Emulution : — 
 
 Amongst pupils ; see Appointments, Exhibitions, Prizes, &c. 
 Amongst masters ; see Masters, Pemions, Promotion, Qualifications, <fec. 
 Encourar/fments for pupils ; see Appointments, Exhibitions, Prizes, ito. 
 Encroachments on endowment lands, A-c. ; see under Endowments, Estates. 
 Endmmnents : — 
 
 Nature of, and how secured ; see under names of particular foundations, localities, or srhnoh. 
 Effects of, and importance of proper management; /.klfast, Brj-ce, 10379-84. Drocjheda, Lacy, 
 12828-31. 
 
 Necessity for redistribution of, Bruce, Bedfast, 10467-9, 10742-3. Funds sutricient if properly 
 applied ; JUsliop of Down, 10476-9 ; Kidd, Sligo, 6570-80. 
 
 Suggestions as to application of; exhibitions in connection with Queen's Colleges; Bdfast, 
 Gibson, 10423.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 471 
 
 Endowments — contiimod. 
 
 Objection to cmlowments us lioinc^ iiijiirioiis to .scIiooIh, whioli would bo better left to coiniic- 
 tition ; Ajm/c;', Navaii lloiiuii Giitliolic Sc'iiiiiiary, 13069, 11300-3. Want of, for Kilnioro llouiun 
 Catholic Academy, 0'/iV(//y, 7811-3. 
 
 Throwing open Government appointments to competition, a better stimulant to education than 
 endowments for gratuitous education, Bisliop of Cushd, 1722G-8. 
 
 Exiisting endowments inailequate : — Bandgher, Bell, 5399. Belffial Amdcimj, 10320. Belfast 
 Academical fnxlifti/ion, 101-20. Cork, St. Mart/ Slamdon, 2i>90-l, 2298-30-1. Duwnpatrick Dio- 
 cesan School, Nelson, 10284 90, 10290-8. Lundondcmj Diocemn School, and frustration of inten- 
 tion by Iri.-jji S(ici(dy, HadtU, 1807GG-7, 1U770-1 ei si-q. Monar/han, Jackson School, Moffatt, 
 8451 Hseq. \Vate)ford, Foi/ School, Dean IIoare,,i'78-S5. 
 
 InsufHeiont and uncmployeil, fir want of additional means : — Casfledaicson (Co. Londonderry), 
 Irwin, 105G6-7. 
 
 Not carried into effect; Roscommon, Hall Endowment, Fitzgerald, 7451: and disputed ri|>|ilic.a- 
 tion of; Wexford., Tate Endowment, Groan, 421-2 ei seq. ; Elgee, 434, 439, 449. School closed 
 from disputes as to application of bequest, Killough, 9778-9 et snj. 
 
 Uncertainty as to, and as to application of, and litigation ; Downpntrick, Aleyn's Blue School, 
 983G et. seq., 98GC-84. Buttevant, Robinson, 1149. Carlow, Trench, 75: Browne, 7880-83. 
 Sligo, Shone, 6G71-5. Drumre'dly, G933. Eathconnell, 13092. Templemichnel, Echjeworth En- 
 dowment, Card, 7G34-44. Monarjhan, M'Kenua and M'Ginn Endowments, 8603 et seq. And see 
 Litigation, Costs, &c. 
 
 Schools closed: Annaejvague or Blennervdle, Rowan, 2341; Barlow, IDCSl. Ballijmacward, 
 Barrett, G0G7-72. Boardwell, 5113, 5110 (M.nd see other schools under Lord TAcutenanCs Fund). 
 Sturgan, 9314,9325-7; Hamilton, 24233-0; Barlow, 23059-65. Sklrteen, 13883-4. Charter 
 Schools ; see Charter Schools. 
 
 As to <liscontiuuauce of schools under Ei'asnius Smith Board, and disposal of sites and property 
 tliereupon ; see evidence of Mr. Barlow and Mr. Hamilton, under Erawius Smith Board. 
 
 School formerly existing, closed; or application of endowment altered ; Annadown and Wood- 
 park, Keaveney, 5411-3. Ballymacward , Barrett, G0G7-72. Caherciveen, O'Hea, 2319, 2327-8. 
 
 MoHuMerevan, Moore, 13885-905. 
 
 School closed, and property applied to private use : Annadnff, Shaw, 6921. Buttevant, Eobin- 
 80U, 1149. Glyde Farm, 12247, 12250-2. Holywell, Fitzgerald, 7455-9. 
 
 Endowments not in operation: Ahbeylcix, 5113, 5116. Aglish, 60S0-2. Castlehar, two schools, 
 Stoney, 6077-8. Ballyadams, Elliott, 5076-90. Cork, Christ Church, ^c, Moses Deancs, 2032-3, 
 2035. Downpatrick (Gardiner's), Nelson, 10284-5. Drumcrutten (Co. Monaglian), 9289-9296. 
 Drumsna, 6921. Emlafadd (Co. Sligo), PiiUibs, G30G. Kilcommon model farming school, 6225. 
 Ttmpleneiry or Bamha, Banner, 654-6. Tydavnet, two schools, 9303. Wicldow Diocesan School ; 
 lands sold by Government, 13681-8. Wicklow, Eaton Endowment, Morton, 13778-81 ; Byrne, 
 13785. iric;W(j;r, other schools, 13676-9; sec Lord Lieutenant's Ftmd. 
 
 Schools supposed to have had endowments: Tooms, AUpress, 12249. Aughabawn, 12327; 
 Barton, 12228-30. BalUndrate, 11104; Stewart, 11105-10. Ballinternple, 7824; Lord Eitz- 
 gerald and Vesey, 7825. Castleraghan, 7Sl6,7Sld. Clyde Farm, Lord Clermont, 12252. Clon- 
 dragh, 7767-72. Hollymo^mf, Mayo, 6085-8. Magherafelt, 10558-72. 
 
 Loss or diminution of endowment, by withdrawal, mismanagement, .want of deeds, or of super- 
 vision, etc.: Clogher, Ashe, 116-19-50. Clonmel, Brown, 716. Altana, Madden, 4737,4740-3 
 (and see other cases under Lvrd Lieutenant's Fund). Swords, Baker, 20081-3, i*cc. (see under 
 Swords.) J!allinfemple, Sandvs, 657, 661. Camus (Co. Tyrone), 10557. Cork, Mos''s Deane's, 
 2032-5, 2164-6: St. Fefer's,''2lM-5. Ballyadams, Elliott, 5073, 5076-5090. Balhjrohin and 
 Killead, 10300 ; M'Credy, 10300-18. Ejinis (Pattisons, MAO a-year, bartered for horse Strong- 
 bow,) King, 3924-5. Fethard, Woodward, 662. Kilkenny Grammar School, Browne, 85-6. 
 Killarney, Dr. Pagan's, 2337-9. Killough (Co. Down), 9778-9, 20309-13. Midleton (Co. Cork), 
 17606-9, 17612-3. Monaghan, Oaime's Endowment ; disputes as to application and liability, 
 9140 et seq. Oxmantown, Hone, 22353-403. Saintfield, Bradley, 9749, 9700-2. 
 
 Alienation or diversion of endowments to purposes other than intended : Belfast Academy, 
 10320. Cork, Green Coat, Lee, 1993, 2006-13. Dundcdk Incorporated Sociiiy,' 0821, 12257. 
 Clogher, Rollston, 11645-6. Durrow (Queen's Co.), 4743-4. Elphin, Hodson's Endowme7it, 
 Streane, 7226 ; Warburton, 7224, 7261-71. Gcdu-ay, Ilallowell, 20199-205. Heath, Kellett En- 
 dowment, Trench, 12860-2. Swords (Scardevillo and Hewitson's Endowments), 14983, 15547 et 
 seq. (see Swords.) Kilkenny, Fococke's School, Ardill, 23253, 23258, 23264-6 et seq. 
 
 Application of endowments to private use: — Aghada. Townsend, 1141-6. Bally machrennan, 
 MConncll. 9099, 9702. Cnrrick-on-Sharmon, Percy, 6845-60. Jamestown. 6804-8. Knockdrin 
 (Co. Westmcatb), 13098. 13100. 13112. 13115-8. Johnstown, 7460-70. Reyiiella (Co. Westmeath), 
 13092-8. i:'.103-5, 13119. Emlafadd (Co. Sligo), Moore, 6305-6309. Oatlands (Co. Cork), 
 Knollcs, 1147, 1108, 1170.- Stephtnstown, Townsend, 12333. Shannon Grove and other Charter 
 Schools, 4731. Stiirgan, Maclean, 9317, 9332 ; Barlow, 23059-65. Tralee, Hickson Endoioment, 
 2330-5, 2382-92. 
 
 Encroachments on lands ; want of surveys and valuation and supervision : Clogher, Aslie, 
 11649-50. OxTOrtw^owK, Mallet, 22537-51. ' Banagher Royal School estate; land reduced from 
 285 to 204 acres in 1788, or 208 on survey in 1807. sevciity-scvcn acres of the origiual grant 
 having been lost by encroachments of neighbouring landowners and negligence of former masters, 
 5203, 5200-7 ; (see further under Banagher and other schools, estates, ifec.) 
 
 Evidence of Hercules M'Donnell, Esq., Secretary of Commissioners of Charitable Donations and 
 Bequests for Ireland, in reference to school endowments which have been misapplied, concealed, 
 or lost, and as to non-interference of the Board, in different cases, 23168 et seq. 
 Vol. II. 3 P 2
 
 472 ENDOWED SCHOOL?, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Endovrments — continued. 
 
 Want of endowments, and impracticability of estaVilisliing the description of schools ref(uircd 
 (see Intermediate Sc/iools) without aid ; nature oi" endowment required ; Talbot, Queen's Co., 
 y212-2i. Biichanan, Mayo, 0208-19. Haijes, Naas, 13971. Archdeacon liussM, Monafhan, 
 9218-22. C/io/jTOa/j, Oniagh, 11508-15, 11555. Dawson, Leitrlm, G93S, G982. 7/owia/i, Slio-o, 
 C695. J/'(?;-caZ, Castlebar, G258-64. /'e?r^, Carrick-on-Shanuon, G95G-7, 6962, 6091. 'stonei/, 
 Castlebar, 6288-9. Wilson, Belfast, 10547. 
 
 Erasmus Smith endowment; as to its foundation, nature and administration, see under Erasmus 
 Smith and Erastnus Smith Board. Complaints of mismanagement and misapplication of, l)y 
 Erasmus Smith Board ; see Callinan, O'Shea, Barlow, &.c: 
 
 Complaints of administration of, and alleged proselytism ; want of separate endowment for 
 Roman Catholics ; see Swords : Kihnore, O'Reilli/, 7811-3. 
 
 As to management of, see also under Estates, Commissioners of Education, Erasmus Smith Board, 
 
 Incorporated Socidif, Lord Lieutenant's Fund, ifec. 
 
 Enrjlisli Schools : — 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Registrar and Inspector of Erasmus Smith Board, as to 
 Euglish Schools uuder that Board, 21G30 et seq. ; see under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Evidence of John Barlow, Esrp, Chairman, &.C., of Erasmus Smith Board, as to, 22846 ct seq. ; 
 see under Erasmus Smith. 
 
 And see under names of localities or of schools so ccdleel; and under Incorporated Societi/, &,c. 
 
 Ennis, Co. Clare : — Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of 
 education in Co. Clare, 3810 et seq. 
 
 School in Kilrneah/ parish, six miles from Ennis, endowed by Erasmus Smith and Lord 
 Conyngham, 3810-3812 (see Kilmeahf). 
 
 Another school, at Ennis, under patronage of the Roman Catholic clergy; a school of private 
 endowment, 3957-39GU. 
 
 Private or other schools in neighbourhood, 4021-4023, 39G1-30C3. 
 
 GRAMMAR SCHOOL OF ERASMUS SMITH, AT ENNIS. 
 
 Founded by Erasmus Smith Board, under powers of Act of 10 Geo. I., out of surplus of Erasmns 
 Smith estates, which accrued after providing for Grammar Schools, established under Charter, 
 granted temp. Car. II. (see Droghcda, Gahvay, Tipperetrf), 3814-38i;G. 
 
 Provisions of Charter and Act of Parliament : see under Ereismus Smith 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries, kc, 3814, 3828-32, 383 1-. 
 
 Present Inepdry. — Return from master, 3833 : — Evidence of Rev. Luke White King, ll.b., 
 master, 3S3G et seq., 404G, 4102 et seq.: — Letter from Dr. P. M. CuUinau, Coroner, Medical 
 Attendant of Gaol, late Chairman of Town Commissioners, 3835 ; evidence of Dr. Cullinan, 
 3971 et seeq.: — -Evidence of John Bustced Knox, Esq., Newspaper proprietor, 4128 et .'cj-^-Evidence 
 of Mr. Barlow, Chairman of Erasmus Smith Board, as to matters complained of, 22G9G et seq., 22800 
 t! seq., 22945 et s-q. 
 
 Sources of Income, Rental, ic. — Returns at various periods, of amounts, numbers of pupils, 
 salaries, and expenses, kc, 3828-3834. 
 
 Rates of payment charged for boarders and day scholars, 3821, 3824. In 1826, described as a 
 pay-school, and as in connection with Erasmus Smith Board and also a private boarding school, 
 3824 ; in 1833, reported as a school under the Boai'd, rather i)f the nature of a private scliool, Imt 
 master receiving ten free scliolars, 3832. 
 
 Sclmol Buildings. — School site, garden, and play-ground, about two acres in all, 3828. Statement 
 at various times, of accommodation and capabilities: in 1809, capable of accommodating forty-two 
 boarders ; liad been as many as sixty, but with two boys in a bed, a practice since discontinued ; 
 arrangement of rooms for different branches ; situation favourable for a school, number uf scliolars 
 would increase if accommodation were enlarged ; detached buibling for an infirmary much wanted, 
 as appears to be the case in most of the schools on this foundation, 3828. lleporte<l in 182(!, that 
 Bchooihouse, with master's dwelling, cost X3,000 ; schoolroom, £300, built by Governor.s, 3831. 
 
 Repairs. — Master stated in 1809 Report, to be under condition to keep the house in repair, his 
 salary with this conditiim being £100 ; but when extraordinary repairs represented by him to bo 
 necessary, expense usually paid by Governors, 3828. 
 
 Present master, Dr. King, states he has on various occasions asked the Governors to rejiair the 
 sclioolhousc ; but obliged to do it himself tiiroughout since it was put in order on hisappointmcnt; 
 Ills wIkjIo salary sH-allowcd up by rejiairs, rates, and taxes, which are very heavy; in 1854, rates 
 10.1. in tiie pound, 3857, 396."*. On inspection at present itK|uiry, flooring (except \\i dormitories) 
 and staircase very decayed ; frequently repaired, incapable of furtiicr rejiair, worn out, and require 
 to be taken up and replaced by new, 3858, 38G0-38()2. 
 
 Unsuitable st.ate of play-ground ; and endeavours of master t(j level and improve it, 38G3. Never 
 ajiplied to the Governors for assistance towards levelling and improving the surface of the play- 
 ground so as to make it more available for the boys' sports ; did a good deal in that way liimseif; 
 cannot obtain the rej)airsof tlie house, which he considers just and consistent with the charter, nor 
 any portion of the heavy poor-rates; (iovernors paid the poor-rates for the master in Droghcda; 
 !i|)pliid four limes to lie put on same footing, and was refused, 3908-3911, 3968. The Governors 
 not at all liberal ; cannot get competent assistants for so remote a locality at tin; salary they allow ; 
 thinks a salary of X'lOO per annum, out of whi( ii lie has to keep the building in repair and pay 
 rates and taxes, not Hiiflicient, considering his standing in college and iiis exertions at the school, 
 3907, 3912-3914, 39G4- 3966 : representations which he has made to the Governors, 3917-22 ;
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 473 
 
 Ennis: — Qrummar f!chool of Eraamus Smith — cnntinucl. 
 
 in repird to repairs, thinks tlic (Jovornors do not comply witli (lie cliartc-r, under wliicli lie under- 
 stands it to be tlieir duty to keep nj) tlie Ijuilding, and not the master's, 3'J15-G. 
 
 School Books and Requisites: — Kviilencc of J3r. Kinf,'; class books are stdoctcJ by the master; 
 except three, wliich arc selected by the Governors, directed by Trinity College Board, and are a 
 very bad selection for exhibition, much better books to bo had, ot)54-G: eeloctcd books, &c., 
 procured by parents, 3853, 3904. 
 
 Cours'' of Instruction : Evidence of Dr. Klu;r ; — half the nine hours of study devoted by head 
 jjupils to classics ; half the time to ,i,'eiicral science, mathematics, French, German, and En^^lisb, 
 3885, 3S88. Instruction given particularly for commercial pursuits, 3S'J3. Importance of modern 
 languages ; particular attention given to them, and especially to English com[)Osition, 3887 ; 
 teaching of modern languages does not encroach unduly on school time, and one language assists 
 another, 3888-00. French very necessary in commercial and scientific ])ursuits, 3891-2. Yaluo 
 of geometry and algebra in developing the intellectual faculties, but sometimes carried too far la 
 schools ; ancient and modern languages equally valuable in improving the intellectual po'.vers, 
 "where properly taught, 3895-7. Advantages of embracing natural sciences, as natural history and 
 physiology, chemistry and mechanics, etc., in course of instruction and in commercial and agricul- 
 tural education ; great intellectual imjirovement therefrom, 3883-5 ; tendency of course in National 
 schools embracing these subjects to raise the children to a better position, 3883, 388C. 
 
 Combination of classical and commercial education not attended with inconvenience in a well- 
 regulated school ; with two or three teachers, different branches can be carried on concurrently 
 without dilUculty, 3893-4, 39G3, 3970. 
 
 Results of Education given. — The boys he sends to the University, able to hold places 'witli 
 the best, at the same time that they have attained a knowledge of modern languages and .sciences in 
 the course of instruction above referred to, 3888 : when a lad from his school is competent to con- 
 tend for a lirst prize at entrance, he is in general fit also for any commercial office whatever; in general 
 a good English scholar, an excellent arithmetician, and well acquainted with other .subjects, 3893, 
 4105. 
 
 AVhen Dr. King came to Ennis, 1832, the sons of the gentry and resf>ectable residents there had 
 never been instructed in arithmetic beyond reduction, wore deplorably ignonuit in English educa- 
 tion, never studied French, had not been taught matiiematies : introduced these subjects from the 
 outset, and they are now professed in surrounding schools, 3939. 
 
 Means adopted by the Governors of Erasmus Smith Board to ascertain whether the sj-stem of 
 education in the school is a good one, 3898. 
 
 Iieliffious Instruction : — required by Charter that the Scriptures and Protestant Catechism should 
 be taught ; never done for free boys, does not in(|uire on application for admission whether Protestant 
 or Roman Catholic, and never interferes with creed of Roman Catholics ; unwillingness nevertheless 
 of Roman Catholics to avail themselves of the free places or let their children attend the school, 39G9. 
 
 Number of Pupils, and Free Scholars, at difterent periods, 3828-9, 3832, (for terms of Charter as 
 to Free Scholars, see under Erasiyius >-'mith). In 1854, forty pupils, of whom ten free; governors 
 have not any property or tenants in the neighbourhood, 3834. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. King, master : — forty-two pupils in 1855 (including three of his sous), but six 
 not yet returned from vacation ; twentv-six of them boarders and sixteen day scholars, including 
 seven free jmpils, 3843-5, 3849-51, 3859-t)0 ; average during twenty-three years and a-lialf, sixty- 
 seven pupils; lowest number, in 1846, famine year, thirtj'-tive ; has since been thirty-seven, forty- 
 two, forty-three, and expects forty-six this half year, 395G. 
 
 Free Pupils : Dr. King's Evidence : — treated and instructed in every respect like other day 
 scholars, 3849 ; generally from the locality, but sometimes come from a distance, Roscommon and 
 other places, and take bdgings, to have advantage of school, 3852. Difficult to get parents to 
 accept free places for boys on foundation ; wealthy people would be willing ; but the poor are gene- 
 rally Roman Catholics and are not allowed to send them, though he never interferes with their creed 
 in any way, 39G9, 
 
 Nomination of free pnipils ; — Board of Governors have lately, (in 1854,) undertaken to nominate 
 the free pupils ; but master himself admits, and never refuses any respectable poor man's child kept 
 neat ; Board lately issued public notice that all unable to pay should apply to them for admission, 
 but have not acted on it; have made no nomination whatever except on one occasion, 3846-8, 
 
 Dr. Cullinan's evidence : — Class of jiersons from whom free pupils come, humble tradesmen, 
 orph.ans, and such persons, who ought to have gratuitous education ; surprised to see large list 
 returned by Dr. King as free pupils, 4015. Sug'gests greater encouragement to free pupils, and 
 their admission on the foundation by concursus, and examination for admission : at present some 
 degree of reproach attaches to being a free pupil withmit merit ; not treated projierh', disparaged 
 in the eyes of other boys, 4083, 408G-7 : would make it a badge of merit; would select the boys, 
 on open examination and competition, from anj' school or class of persons, with or without means; 
 not likely to be abused ; free pupils would be more encouraged, and bailge of reproach would cease; 
 if any person of means enough to pay availed himself of the advant.age, it would tend to raise the 
 position of free pupils and take away reproach ; for the trifling emolument would not exclude any, 
 4088-93. 
 
 Dr. Cullinan thinks not much benefit is derived from the endowment for free pupils, judging by 
 the result ; never knew a free pupil enter Trinity College, — a reproach to the system ; beard that 
 one entered as a pensioner, but none as a sizar ; very few have obtained in the school a com]dete 
 education ; do not continue to finish their education ; number on foundation very small, 4013-4. 
 Admission of free pupils should be thrown open to cleverest boys, by coinjietition ; would raise the 
 character of the scholars, 401G, 4081. 
 
 Dr. King states that although little benefit has resulted for having free pupils, there has been 
 some: remembers at the moment, and there are more, two Roman Catholic clergymen educated on 
 the foundation, as respectable men as any: had a medical student verj' respectable in his profession, 
 4105 : (and see his previozu evidence as to results of education given, 3888, 3893, 3939.)
 
 474 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ennis: — Grammar School of Erannvs Smith — continued. 
 
 Inspection, Examination, and Siipervision. — Evidence of Dr. King, master : — No inspection, 
 examination, or other means adopted by governors to ascertain whetlier tlie system of education 
 pursued in the school is a good one ; never examined ; tlieir inspector attends the English schools, 
 but not the classical schools ; an agent visiteil the seliool within the last three j'ears \ trovernors 
 exercise no kind of control ; there is only the exhibition examinations by Trinity College, and if 
 no candidates for exhibition sent thither, there is no kind of i!:lw'i'erence of the governors in tho 
 education of the boys, 3SDS-3901, 3997. 
 
 Provision for visitation in the charter, 3815. 
 
 Suggestions of means by which theBoard of Governors could improve the system of education ; as by 
 furnishing the master with additional appliances, books, and a school library ; large Maps to hang up 
 for use during the instruction in geography; a school Library, would be of the highest importance 
 in increasing the usefulness of the school ; shifts resorted to, to try to amuse the lads and interest 
 them in reading ; are subscribing so much a week to get a small library of their own ; hitherto 
 out of the question to apply to the Goveruors for aid towards establishing a school library. Applied 
 to the governors to give j\Ieda]s every six months to the best answerers in the school ; they con- 
 sented at last, and agreed to give four medals everj' examination, but clogged with conditions 
 ■which were wholly at variance with the plan of carrying on all the branches of the school together, 
 and compelled the master to give u]i the medals, 3902-7, 3968. 
 
 Refers to an attempt made by the Archbishop of Dublin to encourage boys to apply themselves 
 to English composition ; his pupils ajiplied once and got the prizes ; but too small to iuduce any 
 further application, 410S-9. 
 
 Formerly, encouragement given to the school by neighbouring gentry, by annual donations, from 
 five to ten guineas, distributed in premiums of books and medals to the boys; anno 1809 ; school 
 favourably reported of, 3S2S. 
 
 Exhibitions. — Provisions of foundation, as to Exhibitions, (see Charter and Act under Erasmus 
 Smith,) 3823-5. 
 
 Evidence of master. Dr. King. — Inadequate value of Exhibitions of Er.asmus Smith Schools ; a 
 sum of £7 Is. Scl. (£8 Irish) occasionally allowed to Ennis School as an exhibition entrance to 
 Trinity College , exhibition for seven years ; its nselessr.css, from inadequacy of amount, and tho 
 exhibition granted ouly occasionally, not being given exclusively to Erasmus Smith Schools : not 
 inducement enough, like the exhibitions of £30 and £50 attached to lloyal schools, for boys to come 
 or remain long enough to work for it and get thoroughly educated ; they would go to the Royal 
 echools, 3864-7, 3872, 4056. 
 
 Thinks the manner in which these small exhibitions could be made available for promoting 
 education in the country would be by reducing the number (now thirty or thirty-two), and increasing 
 the value of them, 3SGS. 
 
 Dr. CuUinan concurs in this, 4080. 
 
 As to value of exhibitions ; Dr. King thinks none should be less than £20 to £40 a-year ; to be 
 contended for by all lads from Erasmus Smith Schools, and given to be.':t educated; would limit 
 his exhibitions to Erasmus Smith boys, unless others be thrown open to them, which would only be 
 equitable, 3SG8-9, 3871. Desirable that exhibitions in the university should be thrown o)ien to 
 candidates from any school whatsoever; would stimulate boys in different schoiJs; if the four 
 Erasmus Smith Grammar Schools b.ad six good exhibitions yearly, there would not be many bovs 
 to stand for them, and as it would be easy to obtain tlieni, they would not exert tiieiuselves as if 
 the exhibitions were open to every school, 3370-1 : would also stimulate masters, 3872. 
 
 A good exhibition is £30 or £-10 a-ycar, to be held only while deserved; nothing less worth 
 contending for : accordintr to .system of Trinity College, a lad must pay ten guineas to be ground 
 up; present exhibitions of £7 7s. iDtZ. not worth it; but if £30 to £50 a-ycar, as in the lloyal 
 schools, it is an inducement to work hard at school, to attain distinctions in university, 3923, 
 3965 : and whore an exhibition is a, good one, a pupil will remain two or three years longer in 
 school, to attain it, and is therefore better qi:alificd to distinguish himself, 3945-6. 
 
 Throwing open all exhibitions to all the schools of the country would be a stiranlus to masters : 
 but alone might operate injuriously in inducing teachers of little conscience to devote attention to 
 talented boys to the neglect of boys of less ability ; but exhibition system advantageous notwith- 
 standing ; and a proper .system of inspection would correct the injurious tiudoney; the exliiliition 
 stimulant to masters combined with inspection would M'ork well, 3872, 3947-3955. Thinks all 
 schools, endowed and other.s, shouhl bo subject to inspection, 3954 ; a yearly iu.spection by compe- 
 tent men, 3967. 
 
 Dr. King has no doubt that education in the country would i)e improved if the princii>Ie were 
 carried further, by throwing open Government appointments in the civil, military, and naval 
 services, to competition ; it would greatly stimulate exertion, 3873. Manner in which such a 
 system of competition .should be carried out, '.iSl-i et seq.: course of stn<ly to be prescribed, and 
 annual examination of taudidates to be held at one lixed place, say Trinity College, 3874-3878 ; 
 as to security for ability and impartiality in examinc-s, and publicity of examinations, 3879-3881. 
 The examinations .':hould bo had in London or England for Englishmen or persons residing in 
 England, and in Dublin for Irishmen, 3936-3^43 ; would allow every body, wherever educated, to 
 contend, just as he would throw open Erasmus Smith exhibitions and Ivoyal school exhibiti(ms to 
 the cleverest boys, wherever they iicquire<l their learning, 3941. Such examinations would have 
 an effect on the nature of the instructions in Ennis school; is already nuiking an im])rovcnicnt, 
 with reference to civil appointments, by introducing branches of inslruclion not hitherto taught 
 in it, 3o83. 
 
 Masters tind Assiitanl.i, — Reiiorted in 1809, salary of master £100, be heciiing tho hotise Iti 
 repair; Governors also allowed him £50 a-year for an assistant, 3828-9 ; to whom he jiaid £50 
 more, with board arid lodging : and paid another £40, with board ; j)aid al.so two writing masters, 
 one £31 10s., one i'21, and a French master £31 10s., all boarding in master's house: represented
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 476 
 
 Ennii : — Grammar School of Erasmus Smith — continued. 
 
 that, consiJoring the siiuiiiiiess of tlio master's salary, a greater allowance eliould bo ma'le for 
 assistants, ami that too little land was annexed to ihc school ; no land annexed to school endow- 
 ment except the school site, garden, and play-ground, 3628-9. 
 
 Present master, Rev. Dr. Kinsr : — had previously licen six years usher or head assistant in 
 Lrogheda Erasmus Smith school, .'3837 ; Salary on present appointment, in 1 832 (£100 old currency) 
 £92 6s. 2d.; reduced in famine years, 1846 -7, a::.! for several years during general distress, to 
 £C2 13s. ()(/.; raised 1854 to £100, 0839-3841. Has three assistants; used to have live, 3842. 
 
 Assistants: — Br. King states that the Board pays tin; first assistant £92 G.«. 2d., and the head 
 master gives him hoard anil lodging : next assistant used to have £80, Irish : Eoard withdrew it 
 till last year, when they allowed £34, made up to £80 hy head master : and the IJoard allow £50 
 a-year for French master ; p.aynients made direct from Board to the assistants li:ilf-yeaily ; master 
 has no control over them, but their receipts arc countcr.signed by him, with a statement that they 
 have been in the school, 4114-6. 
 
 Promotion ; no .system of, for assistant masti-rs ; they seldom remain more than a year, have no 
 inducement, except English master, who has reniaiued twenty-three yciirs and a-half, 3936. 
 
 Dr. Oullinan thinks tlie school does not appear in competition with others so advantageously as 
 it ought, if Dr. King had cflicient or (irst-class assistants ; one assistant over-worked, occupied all 
 day, and teaching boarders in evening, arrangements inadequate, 4081. Great many gentlemen 
 about Ennis send their sons elsewhere; would be deterred from sending them to Dr. King if he 
 had superior assistants, by the large sum he charges ; larger than any other school, 4082-3. 
 
 Pensions or retiring allowances to }faslers: — Evidence of Dr. King : instances several masters 
 and one assistant, pensioned at their iuU salary by Erasmus Smith Board of Governors ; apjdied 
 liiniself four or five times, thinking himself, after forty-two years' teaching, to have a claim, but 
 was refused ; would benefit the school to infuse new blood into it, 3927-3925. 
 
 Dr. Cullinan thinks the pensions or retiring allowances to masters a subject for inquiry ; does 
 not appear on face of return made by the Governors that there are any pensions ; returns not 
 satisfactory ; take credit for arrears, rents, rates and taxes, repairs, which are paid by the 
 masters ; instances Galway, Drogheda, Ennis, in which last case Governors pay £1 only for 
 rent, 4080. 
 
 Further Evidence of Dr. Cullinan, Cormier, Medical A ttcndant of Gaol, late Chairman of Town 
 Cominissionrrs : — has had opportunities in the course of long residence at Ennis of perfectly 
 knowing the state of education in that neighbourhood, 3072-3974 : complaint of constitution and 
 conduct of Erasmus Smith Board of Governors, and of numagenient of Ennis Grammar School ; 
 heads of comphiint enumerated, 3835. 
 
 Board of Governors : considers the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools badl}' consti- 
 tuted ; consisting of a number of high official persons, who do not attend or discharge the functions; 
 and of a great many other members resident in Ireland : no member of the Board has any local 
 connection with the school, or any knowledge of its disciidiue, progress, or mauagement; organiza^ 
 tion most nnsuitaMe for efficient control ; no ex-officio Governor attends, except on one day la-st 
 year the Provost of Trinity College, which receives a large amount of the funds from the Governors : 
 evils of nominal guvemors ; thirty-five altogether, mostly absentees ; some in Canada and all over 
 the world, a screen for acts of others ; a myth, and non-existent, 4003-4, 4007-9. Impossible to 
 expect justice from the Board of Governors, as at present constituted; a feelinir that justice has 
 not been done to the school at Eunis, as to which the Guvernors can have no reliable information ; 
 .school managed for the private interest of head master, the public interest being ijuite a secondary 
 matter ; and no control over him exercised, to make the public interest primary, 3987-3989 : 
 the Board exercise no educational supervision whatever, 4000-1. Complains of the system : 
 not the slightest charge against individual Governors, but complaint of the constitution of the 
 Board, 3990-1 : has the greatest respect for the head nr.ister, his character, zeal, and efficiencv, 
 4002. Governors exercise their functions negligently and inefficiently, 3835, 3995-6; have never 
 made a law for the regulation of the school, for 200 years ; the laws then made still in force ; (see 
 rules or bye-laws in charter under Erasmus Smith) ; considers them obsolete ; has been no inspec- 
 tion for thirty years, except that an agent visited the school within the last three years, 3996-8, 
 4002, 4006. Would not have anybody nominally connected with the Board who is not an acting 
 member, 3976. 
 
 Local Superintendence of Schools under the Board : — without pro])er inspection and confidential and 
 reliable information as to state and progress of the schools. Governors totrilly incompetent to 
 exercise efficient control over them, 3977 : ought to provide means of informing themselves properly 
 as to the schools, and not doing so exercise their functions negligently and ineflicieutly, 3798 : 
 injury from that negligence might be corrected b3' having properly qualified and paid local superin- 
 tendents ; persons who should have some interest and responsibility either b}' pa3'nient or by local 
 ties, 3980. 
 
 Misapplication of Funds ; Dr. Culliuan's complaint against the Governors, — 
 
 That while they do not pay their masters and assistants enough, they p.ay a large amount to 
 Trinity College ; amounts not illegal but injudicious, 4029, 4035-6, 4055-6 : thought the Exhibition 
 jiayments to Trinity College illegal ; inferred that the exhibitions founded in Trinity' College by the 
 Governors of Erasmus Smith schools were exclusively for pupils of Erasmus Smith schools, but 
 perhaps the inference not stricth' warranted ; referring to terms of Charter and Act, his inference 
 shown to be erroneous ; clear that the endowment was partly for the grammar schools and partly 
 for education in Trinity College, and exhibitions plainly not limited to pupils of Erasmus Smith 
 scliools, 4035-4044 ; admits he was mistakeu, 4045. 
 
 That the Governors also misapply funds, thous.ands a-year, in supporting at great expense, a 
 number of English schoohs, — quite a waste that might be usefully applied to other purposes, while 
 there are the National schools. 4029 ; not illegal but au indiscreet and injudicious application of 
 fundsj in his opinion, 4047-4054.
 
 476 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Ennis: — Grammar School 0/ Erasmus Smith — continued. 
 
 That tUey nlso misapply funds in pensions ; a. misapplication, to pension a master wLo after 
 receiving it tor twenty-three years is still in robust health, 4030. 
 
 That the Governors' power in distributing tliese funds is exercised in a manner contrary to law, 
 which they suspend at their convenience, and indiscreetly suspend the law in not clothing the 
 free pupils and not seuding them out as apprentices ; never do it or think of such a thing, lO-l^-S : 
 infringe the law in these particulars, and in not exercising any control over the masters, which 
 are dut'ea strictly imposed on them ; quotes charter, under which the funds for cloihing and 
 ajiprenticing arise wheu there is a surplus ; gives his view of surplus, 40-37-8, 40C0-1. 
 
 That the Governors and master interpose obstacles to education in Ennis : Governors pay certain 
 masters employed in the school, and head master will not allow them to instruct boys not pupils in 
 bis school, although such under-masters be not resident at the school and be not occupied more 
 than two or three hours a-da}' ; master makes it a condition that they do not take boys except with 
 his permission : effect of this, that the town not being able to su]>port different masters, children 
 must go to Dr. King's school or do without the advantage they could derive from the masters, — 
 a serious injury to the public, with the sanction of the Governors, to whom complaint was made on 
 the subject ; the French master may take girls, but not boys ; Governors did not think the matter 
 called for their interference with Dr. King, 4(lG3-8, 4072-3. 
 
 Dr. King states, in rcijard to his assistant.', that the drawing, music, and dancing masters are 
 not paid by the Board, but by fees ; rrencli master paid by Boiird ; never objected to his 
 attending families, provided those capable of going to school were not included, or school would 
 not be encouraged ; would teach at home, and there would be no equivalent for the trouble 
 and expense of bringing luasters, 4105-S. 
 
 Dr. Cullinan thinks the public derive little advantage from the school, 3835, 3989, 4002, 4011, 
 4017, 4081. Is sure, if there were no endowment, there would be a school of a Inch class in 
 Ennis ; an admirable field for a first-rate school, 4U17-4020 : account of other schools in the locality, 
 and of distinguished scholars from them, in Triuity College, 4021-4028. 
 
 I^ees or Cliarges to I'lipih : — Dr. Cullinan complains of the Governors that they exercise no 
 control over the master in regard to fees or charges for day pupils ; thinks the master only entitled 
 legally to 2s. for a pupil ; and the public should derive some benefit from the endowment ; obliged 
 to pay at a high rate, ten guineas a-year, or rather nine months, there being three of vacation ; it 
 is a private school, with endowment, Dr. King making it as beneficial to himself as jiossible, 
 without the Governors controlling him, 4011-2. Diflerent I'atcs of charge by master in Galway 
 and Drogheda, which Dr. Cullinan considers improper, 4012. 
 
 Dr. King states that he does not receive at ten guineas a-year as much as his predecessor did 
 fifty years ago ; his charge was six guineas for classics, a guinea a-quarter for French, and 
 charges for other things ; all these the boys have now for ten guineas or eight if brothers ; his fees not 
 higher than others ; has himself paid twenty guineas a-year for his brother as a d;iy pupil in Dublin, 
 for a far worse education ; knows of no school, even with endowment, that could teach the course 
 specified, for less than ten guineas, especially in a town not admitting of many pupils, 4108. Dr. 
 Kyle, Secretary of Education Commissioners, returns ten guineas as the highest sum charged by 
 any diocesan school, and that by only one ; the next, eight guineas ; but inquiry .should be made 
 as to the instruction given for that eight guineas, 4117-8. 
 
 Vacation. — Dr. Cullinan instances the vacations as an illustration of the conversion of the endow- 
 ment to the convenience of the head master; two vacations in the year, six weeks each, summer 
 and Christmas ; considered too much, and summer vacation fixed at a time when it suits nobo ly 
 but himself, June and July; summer vacation not too long if at a jiroper time ; Governors on Dr. 
 Cullinan's complaint of this told him they could not interfere in the private management of the 
 school, 4002-5. No allusion in bv-laws to holidays, 400(3 : they forbid the absence of the mas'er 
 without leave previou.sly obtained from (iovernors, ami provide as to substitute in the event of his 
 60 absenting himself (see Charter, under Erasmvs Smith) 4011. 
 
 Dr. King states that the vacation is six weeks in summer, and only four in winter, ten weeks 
 in each year; none at Easter or Whitsuntide; masters engaged nine hours a-day re<|uir(! it, ]>utting 
 the children out of question, 4102-;'), 4119, 412.0. — Nobody teaches the pu])ils their catechism. 
 " once every week on each Lord's Day," that he knows of ; is not aware whether it is done or not ; 
 was not aware he was bound to do it : the free ])U])ils arc generally Roman Catholics : as to tliu 
 Protestants, couM not teacli them in vacation, not being there, 4120-1. As to vacation, understood 
 the s]>irit of the charter to refer to school times, 4120, 4122. Cliarter read (sec nnder Erasvms 
 .V'/iii/i) 4120, 4123, 412:0; understands it as referring to absence w-ilhont leave duri[ig school times, 
 in which case a substitute must be provided, but docs not tiiink it means an obligation to attend 
 every Sunday througliout the year to teach, 4123-4127. 
 
 JWanar/ement of Estates by Board of Governors: — Dr. Cullinan considers they have lost some pro- 
 perty, 3999 : a rental referred to in report of a j)revious inquiry, in 1809, mentions Cahircallamoro 
 (Co. Clare) David I'lnglaud, tenant, 1777, a rent-charge; arrears 1807, £8.52; a year's rent 
 and fees 1808, i.'10O; and "school ground at Ennis, no tenant, gratis," 3830, 3833, 4078: — 
 rro])erty, originally Kilmacally or Keilty; £100 a-ycar rent-charge ; statements as to sales of the 
 property ; i)roceedings in Court of Exchequer and Incumbered Estates Court ; rent p;ud at various 
 periods, iiow and to whom uncertainty of iiif(jnnaliiU!, 4074-4078 : ])rescnt tenant of pro]>erty ; 
 Bupposed to bo chargeable, 4079. Governors s:iy tliev have no property in the loi'alitv of Ennis, 
 40G9, 4078. 
 
 Dr. King refers to an endowment by Chief Justice Pattison, for the Erasmus Smitli Grammar 
 School at Ennis, as lost ; left £10 |)er annum to the school by will, communicated to the agent 
 of the property, who "knew nothing about it," and to iOrasmus Smith Board of Governors, who 
 r<;forred to their law adviser, and answered that the matter was "involved in an in(!.\tricable 
 mystery;" endowment, £10 a-ycar, bartere(l for a horse; entry in y)revious master, Rev. Mr. 
 Fitzgerald's book, "Agent allowed Thomas Steele £10 yearly of the I'attison Charity for the horse 
 Strongbow,"— 3924-5.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 477 
 
 Ennis: — Grammar School of /'Jmsiniis Smith — coiitiiiiieJ. 
 
 Iiuiuiry of Governors liy J)r. Culliiian wliotlicr any persons were ontitloil to any :ulvanta;;e.s liy 
 reason «i bein<; tenants on tlieir ])ro|]erty in the tieii^libourhood ; Governors' roply tliat tliey have 
 not any jiroperly in that hteaiity (i'lnnis), and that there are not any special ailvantagcs reserved 
 in the School at Ennis for the inliabitants of that town, in preference to other persons, 4008-71 
 (see Ciiarter under Erasmus Smith, and Free Scltolars.) 
 
 Prizes j^iven by Primate and Governors ; sunrj^ested by Dr. Cullinan for inquiry: prospertns of 
 Droglieda school states, "tiic Primate gives some prizes to be competed for by the pnpils of all the 
 grammar schools;" never lieard of such a thing in Ennis school; lias not heard of (governors' 
 prizes, or whether they are distriiuited there, 40S,'5. 
 
 Dr. King refers to snliject pioposed by the Primate and Archbisliop of Dublin for a prize given 
 by the latter for Euglisli composition, 410S-t). 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, (Miairman, .Vc. of Erasmus Smith Board, (see under Erasmus Smith 
 Jioard.) as to complaints of Dr. King and Dr. Cullinan, 22G9G f< S(?(/., 228U0 et seq., 22045 et seq. 
 
 General ObserV'itions, and Su^/iieslions bi/ Dr. Cullinan as to Education rienerally. — Unsatisfactory 
 state of education among upper and middle classes in the provinces, for want of cllicient schools: 
 in Queen's Colleges, Scliolarsliips and Exhibitions regarded not as honours for merit, but rather as 
 helps to young men of limited means, in pursuing academical studies ; the Colleges to some extent 
 perform the functions of schools, with an unsuited organization, their own functions being materially 
 deranged and im])erfeetly performed. Defect remediable : expectations from present inquiry, and 
 suggestions for imjirovement of endowed schools ; which have been greatly mismanaged, with little 
 regard to public interests, the absence of control and responsibility having led to accumulation of 
 abuses and inefficiency, 4(194. 
 
 Reforms suggested : — Abolition of the various incongruous and inefficient plans now existing for 
 management of endowed schools, and establishment of one uniform and comprehensive system : 
 creation of a Boanl of M;uiageineiit, consisting of a chief director, paid, and associated with other 
 learned and eminent persons as honorary directors ; with paid assistants, to act as Inspectors of 
 schools, 3981-5, 4096 : Central Board to have absolute control, with appeal to Lord Lieutenant 
 only, 409G : and with assistance of local persons, which he tiiinks essential, as a Local Board or 
 Committee, always on tlie spot, to assist and co-operate with Inspector and report to Central Board, 
 3982-6. Sj'stem, analogous to that of the National Education systein; a governing body, with insjiec- 
 tors, and local patrons, 3992-3 ; but would let the patronage rest, not with an in<lividual, but with a 
 number of persons of rank and intelligence as a committee, in the district, 3993-4. 
 
 Would establhsli one Academic School for each County, under rules to be prescribed and modified 
 by (Uentr.al Board : education therein to beof most comprehensive and conijdete character: academic 
 stafl", a head master and seven other masters ; one respectively for mathematical sciences ; for classics ; 
 for natural philosophy; for English literature, logic, political economy, and history; for foreign 
 languages ; for arithmetic, writing, and book-keeping; and for drawing : charge for admission of 
 pupil, £1 a-year, and £1 for each branch in which he may be instructed, affijrdinga complete edu- 
 cation for £S a-year, or a more limited one at less cost, according to hisolijects or convenience : half 
 the admission fees to go to head master, and half the class payments to the respective class masters 
 attended by the pupil : the other moiety to be divided between head master and general purposes of 
 the school and requisites, as chemical and electrical apparatus, maps, models, Viooks of reference, 
 &c. : free education in each school for limited number of pupils, elected half-yearly by concursus, 
 with preference to poorer candiilates : the examinations public, by master, assisted by an inspector, 
 and the selection ratified by the Board: For encouragement to industry and exertion, substantial 
 and valuable prizes, but few in number, to be distributed among pupils of each county school : — to 
 promote wider emulation, two or three considerable prizes to each province, ojicn to competition 
 once, by pupils of all the county schools in the province ; perhaps even national prizes ; 409G-98. 
 
 Estimate of expense of ]n'oposcd ]ilan, in detail, amounting to £44,980, say £50,000 ; may be 
 defrayed by proper application of even a p rtion of existing endowments ; does not anmunt to half 
 of that expended in supporting endowed schools of little or no advantage to the public, 409S-9. 
 
 John Bnstced Knox, Esq., Newspaper proprietor, resident at Ennis all his life, perfectly agrees 
 with Dr. Cullinan ; the want at Ennis at present is adequate opportunity of commercial education, 
 more than in classics ; many persons in trade and commerce in Ennis emjdoying persons requiring 
 a rather superior education, find it diiticult to obtain well educated persons; himself requires 
 intelligent pers(nis, but those in the locality not well fitted or educated ; a general want there of 
 education of that kind, 4128-4145. 
 
 Memorial from. Bishop and Clerr/ij of Dioce=c of Killaloe and Kilfenora that the Ennis Grammar 
 School may be made a Diocesan School for that diocese, and their contributions aj)|died to it instead 
 of to the school at Limerick, (see Limerick,) from which they derive no benefit, 2>oge 301. 
 
 Ennislcillen, Co. Fermana/jli. : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state 
 of education in Co. Eeruianagh, 11880 et ser^. — Statement by Mr. Magce, Newry, (see Armar/h,) as 
 to endowments, 9373. 
 
 ENSISKILLEN ROVAL SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from liepoi-ts cf previous Inquiries, &.C., 11SS0-1190S. 
 
 Charter, temp. Car. I., 15tli December, 1627 ; lands granted for "the free school at or near 
 Lisgoole" (Co. Fermanagh), where it appears the school was previously situate, 1180-1. 
 
 Acts of 53 Geo. III. c. 107, and 3 Geo. IV. c. 79 ; vesting estates in Clare-street Comnii.ssioner3 
 of Education ; jirovision for " the supporting, maintaining, and providing', of " free scholars out of 
 surplus funds after proviiling for ordinary school purposes ; and for affording aid from surplus funds 
 of one school for the assistance and improvctnent of another, 1 1883-4. 
 
 Particulars of the school lands, 33G0 or 3435 acres, and oiher endowments ; income, staff, and 
 salaries, numbers of ])upils, boarders, day scholars, and free pupils, at various periods ; mauagcment 
 of property, A-c, 11882, 1 1885-1 190S. 
 
 Condition and management of school and estates, and alterations recommended, before appointment 
 of Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 11882 : reports of that Board since 1813, and other 
 reports and returns, 11885 et seq. 
 Vol. II. 3 Q
 
 478 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ennishillen, Eoyal School — continued. 
 
 Proposal of a late master for altering the system of the school l>y accepting fifty Jay scholars for 
 gratuitous instruction instead of any boanlers ; rcporteil against by Ohtre-street Board, 1188G. 
 Salary of future masters, £500, and £500 for assistants, 11887 ; increase of number and salaries of 
 assistants, 11900 : portion of income devoted to repairs and Exhibitions, 11888, 11898-9. Im- 
 provements of condition and dwellings of tenants, and abatements, in consequence of numerous 
 petitions, 11896, 11899, 11902-4. 
 
 Ample funds and considerable sui-plus, notwithstanding bankruptcy of estate agent and consequent 
 loss, 11890-1 : repairs, alterations, and improvements of school buildings, 11891, 11900. Erection 
 of an infirmary, new washing room, itc, 11901-2. 
 
 Provision for foundation scholars ; £20 a-year towards maintenance, clothing, and education 
 during continuance in the school, 11892. 
 
 Exhibitions ; in 1833, one foundation scholar obtained exhibition of £40 a-3'ear to Trinity College 
 for five years, 11894. In 1835, exhibitions estaldished as at other Royal Schools; five of £50 
 a-year, and five of .£30, for five years, 9348, 1189.5. 
 
 Pre-eminent success of school under present master; necessity of enlargement for additional 
 boarders, 11900. 
 
 Lending library of classical books, 11900. 
 
 Apjiointment of one of the Commissioners having property in the neighbourhood, to act as 
 a local committee to inspect estate and give advice and assistance to agent ; appointment of an 
 agriculturist for improvement of husbandry of the tenants, 11902 ; lands and tenants improving, 
 11903 ; assistance by employment for labouring class; draining-tile making on the estate, 11904. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Bye-laws or regulations as to the selection or appointment of foundation 
 scholars, preference being given, amongst candidates equally qualified, to natives of Co. Fermanagh, 
 wherein the school estates are situated, and to such as shall have commenced at Enniskillen School 
 in lowest Latin form, and risen therein, 11909-10, 
 
 Evidence of William Trimble, Esq., Proprietor and Manager of Fermanagli Reporter, as to Ennis- 
 killen Koyal School and general state of education, 11911-11953. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Greham, head master, 11954-12044. 
 
 Evidence of James Benison, Esq , Agent of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; as to 
 the estate of the Enniskillen Royal School, 12045-12148. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Andrew Veitch, a landholder, as to the estate of the Enniskillen Royal School, 
 12149-12183. 
 
 Evidence of William Trimhle, Esq., Proprietor and Manager of the Fermanagh Reporter : — 
 Enniskillen has the worst educated population of any town in any civilized country ; character of 
 the county, bullock and turnip ; grow up without learning or trade, and not knowing for what ; 
 hence so many soldiers from Enniskillen : — Eminent classical education at Royal School, but educa- 
 tion there too exclusively classical, of little utility to men of business ; and charges for boarders too 
 high, from £30 to £50 and extras, notwithstanding large endowment ; a general complaint of the 
 want of provision for a practical English education, and embracing instruction in modern languages, 
 all the languages in use ; a good English education not to be had in Fermanagh, except in some of 
 the poor schools; condition of poor schoolmasters, and wretched school accommodation ; difficulty 
 attending attempts to establish a good school, from ap|irehension of injuring the Royal School, 11913. 
 Further evidence as to want of means for a good English education, and as to the schools for the 
 poor in Enniskillen ; prevalence of fever in them for want of proper accommodation, 11913, 11917- 
 20, 11923-5. Other schools, and their degrees of success in teaching, 18941-51. 
 
 Inconveniences of present situation of the school, at some distance from the town, at Portora, 
 especially for day boys ; formerly in the town ; old schoolhouse now let, and rent goes to the 
 Royal scho(d, 11882, 1191.3-6 : suggestions for making the school more available for day boys, so 
 long as retained at Portora, 11913, 11929-30 ; want of a good school, to replace the old school, in 
 the town, — a model school, male and female ; ways in which it would bo beneficial, 11913. 
 
 General feeling that the day boys should be free, or a certain number to pay a small sum ; suggests 
 a local committee, to select boys for free places, 11913, 11921 ; and suggests that the local exhibi- 
 tions or foundation scholar.ships in Pvoyal School should be increased in number; a greater number 
 of smaller value, say £5, would be more adv;vntagcous ; would not alter the exhibitions to Dublin 
 University, 11913, 1192C-S. 
 
 Number of free pupils at Royal School greater than heretofore, and master treats them as other 
 boys; but feeling against obtruding there under jircsent arrangements, and free boys ill treated by 
 others, 11913, 11929-30. Further detail of description of education for which provision is required, 
 and mode of selection for free j)laces, 11938-53. 
 
 Vacations too long, nearly one-fourth of the year, 11913. 
 
 Visits of Education Commissioners private ; should be [)ublic visitations, announced beforehand ; 
 wholesomene.ss of publicity, 11913. 
 
 School-lanils the worst and the tenants the poorest and most wretched in the county, from some 
 cause not applicable to other landlords, who are excellent in Fermanagh generallj', 11913, 11931-7, 
 11952-3. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Jo/iti Greham, head master of Royal .School, Enniskillen : — Number of pupils 
 on the roll, ninety-four; of whom thirty-nine boarders, fifty-five day pupils, nineteen being free 
 pupils, 11954-8. 
 
 Foundation scholars, or school scholarships ; £80 a- 3'car allocated by Clare-street Commissioners 
 of Eilucatiou for four at £20 each, the number at present : selected from five or six most merito- 
 rious boys, in iii.s jmlfrmcnt, whoso names he sends up to the Board with jiarticulars acconling to 
 their regulations, 11959-CO: all day j)upils ; l)oy receives the money himself; holds the scholar- 
 ship for UKire than a year, occasionally four years, or while qualliyiug for the University, no 
 particular limit of time ; generally lield, if of good conduct, till entrance in University, and the 
 majority have obtained exhibitions to University, 11962-7.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 479 
 
 Ennishilkn, Royal School — continucil. 
 
 Free pupils : — has Lad no special instructions as to selection of free pupils ; when application 
 made to him, attends to it unless there he reason to the contrary ; has seldom refused any ; if 
 he had reason to doubt correctness of conduct wouhl not admit, and on one occasion had reason to 
 believe the applicant not in a condition to re(iuire such aid ; selects those, generally speaking, who 
 could not afford to pay, llUGl, 111)08-70, 12027. 
 
 Mr. Trimhlc misinformed in his statement, that persons rerjuiring such aid were not allowed to 
 send free ](U[iils, while wealthy persons had their sons adniitted : no such thing in present master's 
 time, 12(1-1 '3 : believes Mr. Trimhle also altogether mistaken in supposition of ill treatment of free 
 pupils by other boys; on the contrary, several of the free boys amongst those most respected and 
 esteemed in the school, and associating with those of highest conne-vious on perfect equality; 
 makes no distinction whatever iiiinself, and does not make known wlio are free pupils; never 
 any complaint made of treatment of free boys by other boj's, utterly unaware of their meeting 
 with any annoyance, 11971-2. 
 
 Boys chiefly of Church of England, some Dissenters, two Koman Catholic free puinls, 11994; 
 never heard of any objection, on religious grounds, to sending pujjils, 11995. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — In the first instance, of course, classical ; Royal Schools from the first and 
 continue, ckissical schools ; but a great and extraordinary mistake on part of Mr. Trimble to say 
 the education is only classical : some receive an English education only, and at a reduced rate 
 without classics ; eleven such at present time ; the boys do not all necessarily receive classical 
 education, 11975, 12022—1. Eroni the first, a constant object to obtain the most efficient English 
 master be could get; names assistants, their qualifications, and advancements, 11973-4, 1I9S4-5 
 12014-20 ; present English master, at examination in University was first of the first in science, 
 a geouietriciau of luLihest order, and arithmetic and mercantile education well attended to in the 
 school, 11973: details of the branches of English and science instruction, 12021, 12028-3.5, 12044. 
 French and German taught as extras, 11976-80, 11982-3. Drawing, 11981. Head master's owu 
 part, 11986. 
 
 Discipline : — modes of punishment ; no such thing as Hogging, 11993. 
 
 Domestic arrangements and superintendence of them ; health of boys good, 11987-9, 12002-5 
 12010-3. 
 
 Prizes ; at half-yearly examinations, books and medals given as premiums ; a sum given by the 
 master, and the boys pay a small sum to make up a fund for the purpose, 11990-2. 
 
 Examination of boys every half year ; by ex-fellows having college livings in reighbourhood, 
 •who are kind enough to give him their aid for the purpose ; or by any former pupils of the school 
 who have gone through their college course, if within reach, 11993-9 : examinations discretionary, 
 but regularly held ; premiums given on these occasions, 11990-2, 12001, 12009. 
 
 Inspection once only in the twenty years since he was appointed, a considerable time since, cannot 
 recall when ; insjiection by a deputation sent down by Clare-street Commissioners of Education, Dr. 
 Elrington and Bishop of Cork ; not certain whether they made any report, 11996-7, 1200C-8. 
 
 Legacy of £20 a -year left by a former assistant in the school to aid a meritorious young person 
 during his first three years in College, in fact to found a scholarship for a pupil from this school ; 
 need not bo an exhibitioner, and generally given by the executors or trustees to most meritorious 
 according to master's recommendation, 12036-42. 
 
 Evidence of James: Benison, Esq., Agent of the Enniskillen Roj'al School Estate, under Clare-street 
 Commissioners of Education: — Tenants goncrally poor, but great improvement amongst them; 
 advantages described as being held out to them, 12046. Drainage introduced; lime kiln established 
 by Commissioners, who supply lime, for which they pay l^d. a barrel, to tenants at 2rf. a barrel, 
 12046. List of premiums oifered to industrious tenants, 12046-7. Subdivision of lauds forbidden, 
 12049. Farms vary in size from two to tv,-enty acres, 12050, 12055. Consolidation of farms to 
 considerable extent, 12057, 12102. Extent of school estates and number of farms and tenants 
 thereon, 12100-4 : joint tenancies, 12127-12131. No leases given, 12058-12061, 12095. 
 
 Large arrears of rent, 12062-9, 12073, 12097-9, 12135-1.2145. Believes he recommended the 
 Commissioners to cancel the arrears, and place the tenants on a fresh footing; want of inspection of 
 estate, and of new survey, &c., 12063-4, 120G7-8, 12074-6, 12080-1. Land last valued in 1816, 
 12096. Allowances to tenants, independent of the arrears, 12077-9, 1213-5-6. Fences not o-ood, 
 12069: stone houses, and mud houses .also, 12070; tenants have live stock, 12072. Extracts 
 from a report made by him in 1849 to the Clare-street Commissioners of Education on the general 
 condition of the estate and its management, 12081. Had no directions or communication from 
 the Conmiissioners thereon, but took some steps in conjunction with the local Commissioner, Eev. 
 Mr. Porter, 12082-91. Believes the property carefully and judiciously managed, circumstanced 
 as it is, 12092-4. 
 
 Amounts expended in drainage and encouragement for improvements, itc, durincj different 
 periods, 12107-17, 12124-6 : roads made partly at expense of county, partly of Commissioners : 
 afterwards presented for as county roads, 12046, 12118-21 : not many houses built, 12122-3! 
 Rents reasonable, but reductions asked for, 12132 ; and abatements allowed, 12133-6. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Andrew Yeitcli, a holder of land : — Well acquainted with school estate : saw a 
 great improvement in it the last time he inspected it, in October, 1854, when he inspected the 
 whole of it ; a general improvement in houses, farms, drains, crops ; nature of the improvements 
 as compared with some years previously, 12149-58. A good deal of drainage, 12182-3. For two 
 miles along road, some fences, but not good ones, 12159-61. Crops; flax, potatoes, oats, turnips, 
 12164. Size of farms, some under six acres, one of twenty; premiums awarde<l to some of the 
 tenants, 12165-74. Rents; majority under £15 ; ffross rental £2,142; sum received last vear 
 £1,941; £9,231 of arrears, 12175-8. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary, and other officers of Clare-street Board, as to superintendence 
 of Royal Schools, management of estates, ic. ; see under Commissioners of Education. 
 
 GENER.\L STATE OF EBtlCATION AXD PROTISION FOR SAME. 
 
 For evidence taken at Enniskillen on this subject, see Eev. J. G. Porter, W. Trimble, Esq., 
 J. C. Bloomjield, Esq,, Rev. James Uitrjlies. 
 Vol. If. ' 3Q2
 
 480 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 IJrasmus Sniilh :— 
 
 Charter, granted anno 1G99, temp. Car. II., empowering Erasmus Smith, Esq., to erect Grammar 
 Schools in Ireland, to endow the same with convenient maintenance for sclioolmastor.s, and to 
 make further provision for education of children at the Universit}', and for .several other charitable 
 uses, 3SI4-3822, 5G99-700, 12740, 12810, 13789, ixiga 298. 
 
 Letter, anno 1682, of Erasmus Smith, declaring his intention in founding Grammar School.-', to 
 propagate the Protestant faith according to the Scriptures, 22795. 
 
 Laws and Directions of Erasnuis Smith for the better government and order of public schools 
 founded by him, pages 390-1 : Order of Governors, anno 1712, page 391. 
 
 Act of 10 Geo. I. for further application of the rents and profits of Erasmus Smith endowments, 
 3823-3827, 13789. 
 
 Board of Governors o[ Erasmus Smith Endowments; see below, Erasmus Smith Board. — Acts 
 and Charters under which the Erasmus Smith Board act, 22825-32 ; pages 390-1. 
 
 Estates, Endowments, or Fa7ids, left by Erasmus Smith, and their management : see under 
 Estates, Erasmus Smith Board, &c., and under names of respective schools or lo-alitics. 
 
 Western Estates, 5685-9, 591G-91, 6005-14, 6073-4 : (see under Galway) 
 
 Southern Estates, 2406 et seq., 3759 et seq., 4467 et seq. : (sec under Limerick.) 
 
 Charter provides for tlie erection and foundation of three Grammar Schools (Droghedo, Galway, 
 Tipperary, — see under their respective names,) and for ajipointment of able schoolmasters lor same, 
 and ushers, 3815: a fourth Grammar School afterwards provided for under the above Act, and 
 established at Ennis, out of surplus, 3826 : (see under Ennis.) 
 
 Objects of this Endowment ; (and see further, infra, underbid): — Grammar schools to be and 
 ever remain free schools, for twenty poor children or scholars dwelling within two miles of the 
 school, and for "all children of the tenants of Erasmus Smith and his heirs," at whatever dis- 
 tance dwelling, 3815, 3tS16. — Letter of Erasmus Smith, intention to propagate Protestant faith, 
 22795 : his laws and direction.s, page 390. 
 
 If the possessions or income from the estates of the schools increase, such increase to be 
 "employed in the maintenance of more and other scholars to he placed in the said schools, or for 
 the further augmentation of the allowance of the persons already for the time being iu the schools," 
 and not converted to any private use, 3817. 
 
 And if surplus exceed a certain amount, the schools are to be beautified as the Governors think 
 fit, 3820. 
 
 Residue to be disposed of, during the continuance of then existing leases, one half in binding 
 poor children as Apprentices to Protestant masters as tiic Governors think fit, the other half in 
 such other charitable uses as should be directed by deed or will of Erasmus Smith ; and after the 
 expiration of such leases, one half of such residue to bo applied partly towards binding Appren- 
 tices as above, and partly towards Clothing poor scholars in the three Grammar Schools; 
 tho amount bestowed in binding apprentice, not to e,x.ceed £G, nor in clothing, SOs., in the 
 case of anv child ; and the ''children of the tenants of Erasmus Smith" to be preferred before 
 others, 3S2"0. 
 
 Free places and paijment. — Masters aud ushers of such free schools not to take any money, 
 reward, or gratuity whatsoever for the teaching of any poor child of the twenty or other free 
 scholars, who are "children of tenants or inhabitants upon the lands or possessions of tho corpora- 
 tion" (of Governors, or Erasmus Smith Board,) 3821. But the master may receive the sum of '2s. 
 on entrance, from other scholars (not being of the twenty or other free scholars who are "children 
 of tenants to and inhabitants upon the lands and possessions belonging to Erasmus Smith, his heirs 
 or assigns, or which shall hereafter belong to ihc, corporation aforesaid, who are all to be freely 
 admitted and freely taught, how many soever and how far soever they live from the schools,") 
 3821,5700. 
 
 Terms of Charter, in reference to' maintenance of pupils, or free boarders, 5G99, 5914 : (and see 
 page 390, and under Galicay, Barrett.) 
 
 Course of Inslr action ST[iec'itied in charter: — Grammar, writing, casting accounts; and as far as 
 children capable, Latin, Greek, Hebrew ; aud masters to fit them for tho University if desired, 
 3815, 3821 : on Sundays, to catechise them in Protestant church catechism of Archbishop U.ssher, 
 and expoun<l same to them, 3821, 12783. 
 
 Regidation of schools, pages 390-1 : masfer.s, ushers, and scholars, to be subject to "allowances, 
 rules, statutc.% and ordinances," made by Erasmus Smith or Governors after his deatii, 3818-9. 
 Kules of Erasmus Smith as set out and npj)roved by the charter, 3821 : proviso. Governors not to 
 liave power to make or appoint any laws, rules, statutes, acts, orders, or ordinances, after his death, 
 that would make void, suspend, or weaken those of Erasmus Smith, winch arc always to renuiin in 
 full force for the governing and ordering of the said schools and charities, 3822. In 1854, the 
 rules in the charter still in force, 3831 
 
 Masters and Ushers appointed and removable by Erasmus Smith, and after his death by tho 
 Governors, according to regulations made or to bo made, 3818, prtc/es 390-1. Neglect of any of 
 the rules laid down in charter, a just cause of removal of master, 3821. Appointment of masters 
 and ushers subject to approval by archhislio]) or bisiiop (d' diocese in which tho school is, and they 
 arc to subscribe the two first of tlic Church canons of 20 Chas. 1., 3819. Masters and ushers wholly 
 to attend upon the school.s, and not to follow any other occupation, 3821. 
 
 Number of masters and ushers, respectively, one for each school, but so that there bo no usher 
 where the number of scholars does not exceed forty, 3815 ; Governors may allow an usher or not 
 a-s tlicy think fit ; but one usher to be in one school, 3820. 
 
 Salaries of masters, 100 marks, or two-thirds of £10(i, 1036. Remuneration of ushers, £20 
 a-ycar, 3820. 
 
 Putics of masters and ushers : to teach the course of instruction above referred to as set forth 
 in rules for regulation of school, 3815, 3821, /wyes 390-1. Master not to absent himself, except
 
 IXDF.X TO EVIDEKX'E. 481 
 
 Erasmus Smith — continued. 
 
 in sickness, without leave of Governors; substitute durinr,' sudi alisoncc to receive sucli proportion 
 of tlie salary of master, as wouM have been receivable by hi:n if he had not alisented hiiiiselt, 3821. 
 Xominullnu and Visitation; masters, ushers, and scholars, to be from time to time "visited and 
 approved of," 3815; to lie "allowed, ordered, directed, visited, placed, or displaced," by Erasmus 
 Smith Governors, 381S ; and by no other autiiority, poffe 298. 
 
 Further provisions in charter ■.—IJebirio Lect'/rer, appointed by Trinit}- CollcgCj to have £30 per 
 annum ; or other lecturer, as Governors think fit, 382U. 
 
 Act of\0 Geo. /., a i)rivatc "Act for further application of the rents and profits of the lands and 
 tenements formerly given by Erasmus Smith, Esq., deceased, to charitable uses," 3623, 5470. 
 
 Exhibitions ; Triiiitj/ College: — Act recites charter and past payments of pensions or exhibitions 
 of £8 each to twenty poor scholars, and £6 each to fifteen other poor scholars, in Trinity College, 
 3823, 3825, 5470 : such and future similar yearly pension or exhibition to same numbers to be 
 paid out of the eudowmeut until they sliall be otherwise provided for, removed, or take, or bo of 
 standing to take, M.A. degree, 3825. Governors also to erect buildings for exhibitioners, 3825. 
 
 Act further provides for the establishment of two jiublic Lecturers in Trinity College, one in 
 Oratory and History, one in Natural aud Experimental I'liilosophy; and for three new Junior 
 Fellows, 3823-4. Three now fellowships established accordingly, 1st May, 1724; with preference 
 for scholars of the house if equally qualified, and next for pensioners or exhibitioners of Erasmus 
 Smith : the two Lecturers to be chosen by the Provost and Senior Fellows and appointed by the 
 Governors; pensioners and exhibitioners of Erasmus Suiitli to be taught at such lectures gratis; 
 and when any Erasmus Smith pensioner or exhibitioner stands candidate for "any of the said 
 lectures," he is to be jireferred in "the election, nomination, and ajiprobation," before any other 
 person, 3824-5. 
 
 Blue Coat Hospital, Dublin : Act provides for the maintenance of twenty boys therein, 382G. 
 
 Future Increase or Decrease in Proceeds of the Lands, etc. :— in case of increase, residue and over- 
 plus beyond what is necessary for foregoing purposes, to be applied to "some public work or use 
 in the said College or Ilosjiital, in putting out poor children to school, or apprentices, or in setting 
 up or founding one or more English school or schools" (sec Englisli Schoo's, and under respective 
 names) ; in case of decrease, governors to "lessen the number of pensioners or exhibitioners" in 
 Trinity College, "or to make such deductions and abatements out of all or any the pensions, exhi- 
 bitions, salaries, or other yearly" sums appointed by the Act, as they may think fit, 3827, 5718. 
 
 Return in 1854, of income and expenditure of Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools for five years 
 1849-53, distinguishing the expenditure on the four classical or grammar schools, 3834. 
 
 Ennis Oratmnar School established under the Act, out of the surplus, 382G (see A'jinis). 
 
 General questions raised as to the Charter, and as to Governing Body, &c., 3814 (see under 
 Ennis,) and }3age 298 : — aud see also as to questions raised in other places, under Galwag and 
 names of the respective Schools or Localities ; and under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH BOARD. 
 
 Letter from Registrar, Extract from Charter, and opinion of Counsel, as to power of inquiry by 
 the Commissioners before passing of Act for the purpose, pages 297-8. 
 
 Report from the Commissioners to Secretary of State for Home Department, as to refusal of 
 Erasmus Smith Board aud Masters under them, to furnish information; with enclosures, panes 
 299, 300. 
 
 General Inquiry in Dublin as to management of schools, and endowments under Erasmus Smith 
 Board, 190G2 el s'eq., 195G7 et seq., 21521' et si-q., 22694 et seq., 22945 et seq., 23793 et scq., 23987 
 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Ihujh Hamilton, Registrar and Inspector for the Board of Governors of Erasmus 
 Smith Schools : evidence as to Erasmus Smith Schools generally, and accounts and management of 
 Erasmus Smith Board of Governors, 16424 et seq., 21521 et seq., 22717, 22837-9, 22858, 22891-2 
 22896, 23037, 23039-43, 23074, 23094-7-9, 23109, 23793 et seq., 24230 et sej.— (Evidence of 
 Mr. Hamilton, as to Swords Borough School, see under Sivords.) 
 
 Though called Registrar and Inspector, is really the Inspector of Schools under the Board ; the 
 Registrar's duties fall on his assistant, Mr. Thorpe, who is Deputy Registrar, and keeps the accounts 
 and oflice matters ; but every item of account goes through the hands of both, 16424-33, 21525, 
 21547. Further detail of duties of the office of Registrar, aud division of same between himself 
 and deputy or assistant, 21525, et seq. 
 
 As to regulations of Board relating to duties of Registrar, 21523-4, 21530 ft seq. : minute of 
 standing Committee of Governors, of 8 Nov. 1830, on the subject, 2532. No regulations as to duties 
 of Assistant Registrar, 21590 ; his appointment and functions, 21584 etseq. 
 
 Accounts ; mode of dealing with ami transacting financial business ; minute of Board not acted 
 upon ; diflcrences of view as to whom responsibilit}- attaches to for the state of the accounts (see 
 below, Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Mr. Fetherston, andMr. Thorpe), 21549-82, 24249-54. 
 
 Constitution of Board of Governors ; twenty -six in number, partly exofticio, partly self-elected, 
 21596-7. Irregularity of attendance, 21599-603. Nature of business transacted at the Board, 
 21603-7. 
 
 Standing Committee ; regularity of attendance, and nature of business transacted, 21608-19, 21767. 
 
 Solicitor, Jlr. Fetherston {see Mr. Fet/ierston's Evidence, below,) always present at the meetings 
 of Board and of Standing Committee, and paid for attendance, 21605-7, 21612-3. 
 
 Charter and its original intention ; to erect five Grammar Schools ; only three endowed, four 
 now in operation, 21G20-9. Returns of numbers educated in the Gran)mar Schools; IGl scholars, 
 21G40, 21642-5. No rules beyond those in Charter for Grammar Schools, 21650 : as to religious 
 instruction therein ; admission of Roman Catholics, 21651-70. 
 
 English schools ; origin and history, number of schools, cost of establishinir them, salaries and 
 other particulars, 21630-9. Number of pupils, 5380 on 1st November, 21641 ; comparison of
 
 482 ENDO"SVED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Board, Mr. Hamilton's evidence, — continued. 
 
 relative numbers with grammar scliools, 2164-5-6. Measures for encouraging attendance at English 
 schools; premiiim.s and their eflect, 21647-9. Kulet for tlie government of English sehooIs,drawn 
 up and printed, 21671 ; as to religious instruction, and religious denomination of masters and mis- 
 tresses, 21672-6. 
 
 Inspection of English schools; its nature, and how performed by him ; examination of scholars, 
 itc, 21677 et sfq., 21725 et scq. Importance of fre(|ueut and active inspection, and value of assist- 
 ance of parochial clergy; returns made by tbeni as ex-ofBcio superintendents, 21684-7 et seq. 
 Effect oi inspection not impeded by giving notice to master ; thinks notice should be given ; 
 reasons, 21726 et seq. Inspection also by inspectors of Church Education Society, who likewise 
 supply school requisites ; some schools connected with both Boards, Erasmus Smith Board being 
 supreme, 21722-5. 
 
 Returns of attendance and numbers of scholars by masters ; mode of making and checking 
 them, 21729-36, 21788-91 : and of state of premises and repairs, &c., 2178.5-7. 
 
 Masters : reports upon them ; gratuities and premiums of books to meritorious masters, 21710-7. 
 Return of premiums to masters and mistresses, since 1850, and names, 23793. Examination 
 previous to appointment, 23793. Masters and assistants ; their salaries ; highest ,£100 ; no system 
 of promotion, 21798-802. 
 
 School Requisites ; regulations as to supplying, partly by local funds, partly by the Governors ; 
 importance of proper supply, 21718-21. 
 
 Grammar Schools : their management ; no regulations laid down by Governors ; no official 
 inspection, 21737 et seq. No steps taken in reference to course of instruction, 21832-5. Visita- 
 tion once in Tipperary, and one threatened at Galway, 21748, 21751 et seq. : no visitation for 
 twenty years, 21820-2. No superintendence of grammar schools by Governors, 21768 et seq. : 
 returns, do not supply the want of inspection, 21785-91. Gross -annual amount {£716) expended 
 by Governors on grammar schools, 21817-9. Further evidence as to absence of inspection or 
 visitation of grammar schools, 21845-62. 
 
 Pensions : — Resignation of a former master of Galway grammar school, on retiring allowance, 
 21753-6. Not the practice of the Governors to grant pensions ; but they have given some ; 
 instances, 21754-6. 
 
 Medals for honors in Classics, English, French ; conditions on which issued ; given only to 
 Droghedaand Galway; refused by master at Ennis (see under JEnnis, Dr. King's evidence), 21774-7. 
 
 Repairs of schoolhouscs ; how provided for, 21778-87, 21796-7: and payment of rates and 
 taxes, 21792-5. As to want of repairs at Ennis and Galway, 21803-16. 
 
 Free scholars : provisions of Charter for in grammar schools ; how and to what the Governors 
 have exercised their powers; small numbers; have recently admitted more, 21823-31. As to 
 throwing open free places to competition ; complaints of non-admission by masters ; definition of 
 free schools, 21836-42. Further evidence as to free schools on Governors' estates : the English 
 schools to all intents free ; a trifle charged, a penny a-weck or so, to secure regularity of attend- 
 ance, 21875-81. 
 
 No free boarders ; no such thing ; provisions of Charter, 21882-4. 
 
 Charges of masters for boarders and day scholars, not regulated by Governors, 21843-4. 
 
 Exhibitions for pupils in Erasmus Smith Schools, 21863-6. Particulars of amount and number of 
 exhibitions granted, and manner in which granted ; preference for Erasmus Smith boys, 21886-900. 
 
 Apprenticing : — Provision for in Charter, for apprenticing poor scholars or free boys ; nothing 
 done bv the Governors towards apprenticing boys in the grammar schools, because they were above 
 the class in life for apprentices, 21867-8. 
 
 Clothing : provision in Charter but not acted on, for similar rcasim, 21869. 
 
 Blue Coat Hospital, Oxniantown, Dublin : — Provision in Charter, and practice as to boys placed 
 there at the expense of Erasmus Smith Governors, 21870-5 (see Oxmantowu). 
 
 Christ's Hospital, London : — Payment of £100 a-ycar to it by Erasmus Smith's Governors ever 
 since the reign of Charles IL, 21885. 
 
 Discontinuance of schools : — Falling off in attendance not necessarily an indication of bad 
 management of the school, 24244-5 ; has sometimes revived, 24246-7. Practice to discontinue 
 schools when they become infant scliools ; Governors do not maintain iufant schools, 24234, 24236. 
 
 Sturgan school, 24233-6 : Rathmore school, 24237-11 : Donadca school, 24242-3. Linenhall- 
 street school, 24230-3. 
 
 And see under particular schools. 
 
 Evidence of Eustace Thorpi; Esq., Assistant Registrar to the Governors of the Erasmus Smith 
 Schools, 16434-45, 19062-564, 19627-8,19567-78. 
 
 His various duties enumerated, and remuneration, 19067, 19102 : previous occupation under (he 
 Board and remuneration, 19065-6, 19111-31 : part of his duty is to keep the accounts of the 
 Board, 19075, 19100 : but docs not consider himself responsible for all the liooks, 24084-92. 
 Produces books and documents, 10436-45, 19507-78. 
 
 No general rules and regulations for his guidance in discharge of his duties, nor for those of 
 registrar and inspector ; but for tiio latter, various minutes in tlio minute books, 19068-74, 19076- 
 101 : a printed form for the inspection of schools, 19082. 
 
 Accounts: docs not understand what is meant l)y double-entry, 1910S-10 : defective and unsatis- 
 factory mode of keeping, 19132 et seq., 19299-303. Docs not know what assets are, as an 
 accountant ; is not an accountant, 19328-33. 
 
 Arrears in lodger; not regularly posted up for want of time, 19157-79 : particulars of arrears 
 and irregularities, 19180-208, 19211 d seq. Accounts not being written up does not mean thoy 
 arc irregularly kept, 1921 0. Irregularities by striking out of entries and mistakes ; a sum entered 
 twice, which the Governors wouhl \nm) if not discovered. Never diHCOvered the mistake before, 
 19207-86. Ileceivea money for the l5oard ; no account ojieu with him in the ledger, 19297-8.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 483 
 
 Erasmus Smith Board, Mr. Thorpe's evidence, — continued. 
 
 Receives money and makes no entry of it, 19117 ; does not tliink it nccos.sary nor Lis duty to 
 keep a easb aeoount of his receipts, llil3L 
 
 A siini (if I'fiOD wliicii Mr. llaniilton ynt, not charged to him hccauso there is no account wilh 
 Lim in the ledger, VJod7-Gi. 
 
 No account to show what is due to tiie law agents from time to time, 10455 ; no account of the 
 debts due to the Governors, 19509. 
 
 Further details as to accounts, ami liow made up, 19138 ct scq. 
 
 Mistakes in evidence of Mr. Thorpe, corrected; by secretary, 19499-501; by Mr. Barlow, 
 treasurer and auditor, 195G5. — And see evidence of Mr. Uam'dton, Mr. Barlow, Mr. Felhcrston. 
 
 Evidence of Godfrey Fellierslon, Esq., Solicitor, Law Agent to Erasmus Smith Board : Solicitor 
 also of Clare-street Commissioners of Education; evidence as to proceedings under thcui, 23551-733, 
 23738; (sec under Commissioners of Educalion.) 
 
 Evidence as to proceedings under Erasmus Smitli Board, 23635-8, 2398S-21083, 24093 el seq. 
 
 Governing charters and statutes of Erasmus Smith foundation: provisions as to accounts, 23092-G. 
 
 As to mode of keeping accounts under Erasmus Smith Board ; draft system of accounts prepared 
 in Law Agent's oflicc, and order of Board for its adoption, 23990, 23999-24009. Defective system 
 of accounts ; disclaimers of the ledger ; want of account of assets and liabilities, 23997-8, 24010-8, 
 24022, 24093. 
 
 His bills of costs ; their variety, and rnnning over periods of from 3 to 11 years; unsatisfactory 
 explanations, 24019-22. Further examination as to costs ; much of them for business more 
 properly the duty of the Secretary or other otlicers of the Board, 24213-20 : taxation of his costs 
 by himself or his son, 24225, 24227. 
 
 Costs of notices to quit : difference between his scale of charges to Erasmus Smith Board and his 
 charges to Clare-street Board (see Commissioners of Education^ 23635-8. 
 
 Leases : — as to costs and stamp duty; paid by tenants, 24023-7. Costs of leases, stamps, Ac. ; 
 leases in one common form; but not printed, and consequently more expensive, 24065-74. Forms 
 of leases, pa(/es 317-322. 
 
 Lease prepared by a former agent not in accordance with the statute, and a breach of trust> 
 24028-42. Irregid'arities, defects, or objections to other leases, 24043-7, 24048-51, 24052-61, 
 24100. Prccariousncss of tenure in consequence, number of leases and amount of money so laid 
 out, 24062-4, 24100. 
 
 Catechism leases ; schools which have been closed, and lands, kc, attached to them ; losses to 
 the Governors wliieh would not have taken jilace if tlie leases had been drawn in accordance with 
 the charter, 24121-98. Lease, Druniaehose School, with clause requiring instruction in Church 
 Catechism, page 317. 
 
 Scriptures leases; schools discontinued; unsatisfactory state of things and lofsses, the statute not 
 being carried out, 24199-212. Lease, Gorey School, with clause requiring instruction in the 
 Scriptures, ^)ay« 321. 
 
 Letter from Board of Governors upon Mr. Fctherston's evidence as to discontinuance of schools, 
 and surrender of premises, pat/? 322. — Minute of Commissioners thereon, page 323. 
 
 Irregularities in regard to dividends on stock purchased with railway and other moneys from 
 sale of school lands, 24075-83. As to investments of stock ; imperfect accounts, 24094-8. 
 Further evidence as to mode of dealing with stock and produce of sales of land, and wrong appli- 
 cation of proceeds drawn out of Chancery, 24100-20. 
 
 Evidence of John Barlota, Esq., Chairman, Treasurer, and Auditor of Board of Governors of 
 Erasmus Smi'th Schools, 19565-6, 19576, 19579 et seq., 22694 el seq., 22945 ef s,q., 24255 et seq. 
 
 Acts and charters under which the Board act, 22S2.5-32. Letter, anno 1682, of Erasmus Smitli, 
 22795 : — (sec above, under Erasmus Smith.) 
 
 As Chairman of the Board of Governors, is, by charter, Treasurer ; and as treasurer is, by charter. 
 Auditor of the accounts of the Governors : holds himself morally responsible to ascertain that every 
 shilling of the Governors' property is properly disposed of and accountetl for; duties of treasurer 
 and course of proceeding in regard to audit, 19.')79-81, 19592. Corrects an error in Mr. Thorpe's 
 statement as to absence of record of a payment of £1,300 to law agents which is introduced and 
 audited in the accounts, 19565 : law agent's draft of svstem of acaiunts producible by the law an-ent 
 Mr. Fetherston, 19573-6. " J ^ , 
 
 Board and Standing Committee, th -ir functions and relations to each other; nature of business 
 
 of proceeding on luspector's reports of schools, 19592. 
 
 Meetings of the Board; no fixed days: two stated meetings ordered, 1834, to be held in each 
 year, and Agent to attend; but fallen into disuse, 19602-8. 
 
 Rules or Regulations for the government of the Board, or for the Treasurer, Registrar, or 
 Assistant Registrar; not aware of any beyond tlie Charter; followed the course of liis predecessors; 
 as to rules extracted from proceedings of Governors, or bj'e-laws, 19593-601. 
 
 Registrar; his relation to Standing Committee, and duties as Registrar .and Inspector, 19582, 
 19592 : security and responsibility for acts and conduct of Assistant Registrar, and for accounts', 
 19588-9 : further evivlcuce as to responsibility of the Registrar and mode of keeping the accounts,' 
 24255 et seq. 
 
 exam 
 
 Estate Agents' Accounts; course of proceeding thereon; regularly audited, and nature of 
 aniination of them, 1960S— 17. 
 
 Accounts ; as to mode of keeping them, and defects therein ; value of a proper ledser ; thers are 
 the materials for putting the accounts into any sliapc the Commissioners may please,"lP622-34.
 
 484 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Erasmus SmitJt Board, ilr. Barlow's evidence, — continueJ. 
 
 Explanation as to a sum of j£3,000 for purcliase of stock, not entered in the ledger, 19G36-8. 
 Furtiier evidence as to invostuicnts in stock, of moneys received from Railwajs, itc, for lands; 
 mode of drawing out of court, and accounts of same, 24256 et seq. 
 
 Further evidence as to accounts: not kept by double entry, nor in accordance with Charter, or 
 the Orders of the Board; the fault of the Registrar; begun but not coutin\ied by Assistant 
 Registrar, who departed from the couise laid down, without authority, 19C10-G-7 ct seq. : no loss 
 has resulted or can result, 19053, 19G55. 
 
 Is aware that a banker or merchant would not be satisfied at all with the manner in which the 
 books are kept ; the practice the same as heretofore; but there has not been a penny loss sustained 
 in consequence, 19G63-7, 24284-6. 
 
 Tuggestions of the Commissioners for amendment of the accounts, 19700-2, 24287. 
 
 State of finances and management how ascertained from time to time, 19GG0 et seq. 
 
 Though Treasurer, never has money in hands; advances obtuined from the bank in the year of 
 pressure, when thev could get no rents; no interest charged by the bank, 19639; now, £7,000 or 
 £8,000 invested in funds, as a reserve, to avoid a similar condition, 19GG0. 
 
 De[)endence on the experience, ability, ami integrity of the Treasurer, rather than on the system ; 
 management of finances and property, 19GG8-73, 23117-9. Governors and Treasurer act gratui- 
 tously; receive ouly a good deal of trouble and occasional unpleasantness, 19619-21. 
 
 Further evidence as to accounts, and satisfactory explanation of certain particulars, 23114-6. 
 
 Discontinuance of schools; property, how disposed of thereupon, 19G74 et seq. : — Linenhall-street 
 case; Lombard street premises, 19674. 
 
 Rathmore School, 19679 ; Drumbane School, 19681 ; Elennerville School, 19681. 
 
 Drumachose, 19GS3 : expenditure on building scho<ds; and mode of disposal of sites if discon- 
 tinued, 19G77-87. — Lease of Drumaclioso, ^M^e 317. 
 
 Letter from Board of Governors, and Minute of Commissioners thereon, as to discontinuance of 
 schocds and surrender of premises, paijcs 322, 323. 
 
 Expenditure of Endowment jiroperty, chief purposes to which applied; the English schools, classical 
 schools, certain professorships in Trinity College, and exhibitions : the Blue Coat Hospital, Dublin 
 (see Oxmantown), and Christ's Hospital, London ; office, school maintenance, and requisites, repairs, 
 19688-9 : expenses connected with estaies, such as usually borne by landlords: agents paid usual 
 per centage, and allowances made to tenants for loss or for improvements, 19G90. As to expen- 
 diture for other objects, 19691-6. Mode of letting estates ; not always by advertisement, reasons, 
 19697. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, as to various representations or complaints made in the course of the 
 inquiries as to Erasmus Smith Schools, 22694 et seq , 2294,5 et seq. : — As to representations at Ennis 
 by Dr. King, 22G96 et seq.; by Dr. Cullinan, 22800 et seq., 22945 et seq. (see under Ennis) : at 
 Galway, by Mr. Ilalh.well, 22G97-8 el seq., 23021 et seq.; by Mr. Barrett, 22708 el.^eq., 22727 ; by 
 Mr. Killeen, 23004 et seq. (see under Galway) : at Lougford, us to Templemicbael school, by Mr. 
 Card, 23055 et seq. 
 
 Free Pi/pils — Practice of the Governors as to nomination of free jiupils and regulations as to admis- 
 sion into the Grammar scliools,22G9G el seq. Order of the Governors of ,5tli. July, 1S5 I, as to nomination 
 by themselves, and jmblic advertisements, requiring applications for free places to he addressed to 
 them ; practice thereon to refer to masters of the school, but not the intention that the masters 
 shouhl themselves admit as previously, or recommend free pupil.s, 22696-7. No examination of 
 candidates, 22701. Practice previous to that order; left to masters, 22703-4. 
 
 Governors never refused application for a free admission, except once, at Galway; circumstances 
 of the case, 22697-700. No reference to the master in tliat case, 22698-700. 
 
 As to free admission of children of tenants on Erasmus Smith Estates .according to Charter, 22702. 
 
 As to returns and -small nundjcr of free pnidl.s, 22705-7, 22812-4, 22976-7, 22983-7. 
 
 Free Boarders. — A])plication from Mr. Barrett of Galway for admission of his son as a bo.arder; 
 Governors consider they have no power to admit free pupils as boarders, 22708 et seq. : grounds of that 
 opinion, 2271 1. 
 
 Terms of Charter as to "maintenance of schoolmasters and scholars," 22712, 22715. No traco 
 of children having ever been admitted as free boarders, 22714. 
 
 As to selection of free pupils from English schools, by examination, for fjce [daces in Grammar 
 schools, as boarders, 22988-91. 
 
 Mixed Education. — As to admission of Roman Catholic pu[)ils into the Grammar schools, 22777 
 etseq. Rules or practice as to religious instruction, ami ic<|uiring that tlie Bible be read, 22779-81. 
 Protestant character of schools intended by Charter ; rules therein, 22782. Further evidence as to 
 religions instruction, provisions of Charter, and admission of Roman Calliolies, 22782-98, 22978- 
 83, 23006-8, 23027, 23046-9. 
 
 Letter of Erasmus Smith, anno 1682, declaring his object in founding the Grammar schools, to 
 projiagatc the Protestant faith according to the .^crijitures, 22795. 
 
 Masters not furnished with Charter, or rules laiil down for their guidance, 22799. 
 
 Inspeclinn and Visitation ofSchooL-i — I'rovisions of Charter, 22739-40. No insjiection of Grammar 
 Bchool.J, and couiijhiiiits of want of it ; half-yearly returns, no snflicient substitute : desire of masters 
 for in.Mpection, 22741-8, 22810, 23025. Oidy one case of a visitation, anno 1 680, at Drogheda, since 
 the Chnrter, 22748. Grounds of non-in.'-|iection of Grammar schoids, 22737, 22743 : would bo 
 better for inspection and visitation, 22743, 2275 1. 
 
 Nature of ins]>cction of English schools un<ler the Board and examination of pu|]ils ; insudicicnt 
 time for it; formerly more than one Inspector, 22886-97: (and see Mr. Jlamillon's evidence.) 
 
 Some of the schools inspected also by Cliurch Education Society's Inspector, 22S98.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 485 
 
 Erasmus Smi/h Boanl, Mr. Barlow's Evidence, — continiied. 
 
 Medals. — As to iiianiu'v in which thoy were projiosoil hy the Governors to he awarded ; grant of 
 them to Galwuy, to be distributed at master's discretion ; grant to Ennis refused by master, for want of 
 discretion in regard to distribntion, 22700-9. 
 
 Exldhitionx or ScJioliiri'hi/i.'i in Colhr/e — Erasmus Smitli foundation of exhibitions to Trinity 
 College ; tlieir number, value, and conditions, 22818-24. Provision.s of ,\cts and Charters, 22825-32. 
 Small value of the exhibitions ; suggestions for improvement, 22921-4, 229J7, 2.'?001, 2.j02."3. 
 
 Other grants in favour of Tiinity College, 22832-4 G : — Three fellowships and two professorship.'?, 
 22832: buildings; examination hall, 22833-4 : Fagol liijrary, 22834. Buildings or chambers for 
 occupation by Erasmus Smith cxhibitioner.s, free of chamber rent; not generally known ; never acted 
 on, 21830-40. 
 
 EiKjlhh Scliools. — Origin and policy of; their great value, and answer to objections to this applica- 
 tion of funds (if Erasmus Smith endowment, 22840 et seq., 2292.J-7. As to de.--ign of founder and 
 extension of lir;inim;ir or Classical schools, and expenditure on tliem and itsvaluc as compared witli that 
 of the Eni.dish schools, 22847 H seq., 2291.5-20, 22925-7. Sup])ly of reiiuisites to Englisli schools, 
 23028-31. 
 
 As to approi)riation of sites of English schools where the latter are discontinucil, and amount laid 
 out on building them, 22874-81. 
 
 Clothitn; : boys not elotheil by Governors in any of their schools, though contemplated by Charter, 
 22932, 23024. 
 
 Apprenticlnij : boys formerly apprenticed by Governors ; not now, 22933-42 : at same time that 
 boys were educated and apprenticed, others in same schools were educated and went to university or 
 into the army, 22942. 
 
 Estates and remission of arrears of rents, 22727-8. Legacy of Judge Pattison to Ennis school, 
 22705-0. 
 
 Jiepairs of Sriioolhovsi's. — Practice of the Governors in regard to repairs ; expenditure for rei^airs, 
 at Ennis, Galway, Drogheda, 22729-34. 
 
 Rales and Taxes. — Not generally paid by the Governors for the masters, though paid at Drogheda, 
 where salary lower, 22700-2. 
 
 Snppbi of School 7-eqni-it(s : half fron. Governors, half from local funds, 22905 : supply to Erasmus 
 Smith schools from Church Education Society, 22908-9. As to supply by Governors to Grammar 
 schools, 23010-0. 
 
 Masters. — Their training, 22883-5 : and means taken to ascertain elficicncy, 22881-2 
 Salaries of masters ; representations of insufficiency ; not good in regard to efficiency to make 
 them independent of scliolar.s, 22735-9, 22815, 22998-300, 23022. Dr. King's complaint of delay 
 in payment of his salary unfounded ; dates ; value of his complaints, 22759. 
 As to regulation of charges for pupils by master.-;, 22947-51, 23004. 
 
 Ushers. — Provision for salaries, 22703-4. Insufficient numher of masters orassistants; Governors 
 without power to pav an assistant for Eugli-sh schools, 22910-4, 23009. Mode of appointing and 
 paying assistants, 22900-71, 22990-7. 
 
 Promotion of masters and assistant masters, and appointment upon competition, 22962-8. 
 
 Employment of monitors ; to he resorted to with caution, 23051-4. 
 
 Pensions or Superannuation allowances for Masters. — No system of superannuations under Erasmus 
 Smith Board, but would operate with advantage, 22707-70. Pensions granted in some instances, 
 but power doubtful, 22708-72, 22774-5, 22950. Contradiction of allegation of Dr. King as to his 
 own application for pension, 22707-8. 
 
 Board of Governors. — As to Dr. Cullinan's objections to its constitution, 22S00-9, 22992-5 : Board 
 not a myth, 22994, 23003. 
 
 As to Mr. Barrett's allegation as to excessive expenses of the establishment, 22718-21. Large 
 proportion of law agents' expenses, 22721-5 : accumulation of costs for 12 or 13 years, aud defec- 
 tive accounts thereof {see above), 22722-0. 
 
 Otlier bodies in connection with Erasmus Smith Schools, and as to division of authority : — Church 
 Education Society: inspection ; grant of school requisites; payment of part of salary of ma.ster, 
 22898-904,229118,22928. Incorporated Society; gratuity to'master, 22900-7. Objected to by 
 Erasmus Smith Board, 22902-4. 22907 : consent to inspection ami control by Church Education 
 Society, 22928. 
 
 Further evidence as to remaining details of Dr. Cullinan's complaints (under Ennis) 22945 et seq. : 
 And as to representations at Galway, 23004 et seq. As to Ardee schc^ol, 23072-86. Douadea 
 school, 23088-112. (Jlvde Farm school, 23008-71. Mufl school, 23060-7. Sturgan school, 
 23059-65. Tenijdemichael school, 23055-8. 
 
 EUASMUS SMITH SCHOOLS. 
 
 Grammar (or Classical) Schools, — (under Charter and Act of 10 Geo. I. above referred to ) 
 
 Drogheda, 1 2740 ft seq. 
 Ennis. Co. Clare, 3814 <l seq. 
 Galway, 5400 et seq. 
 
 Other Schools founded by Erasmus Smith, or for which he Las contributed Endowment : — 
 
 Annagraguc, or Blennervillc, Co. Kerry; not in oocration, 2341. 
 
 Ardee, Co. Louth, 12301. 
 
 Blennervillc, or .-^nnagragne, Co. Kerry; not in operation, 2341. 
 
 Dlue Coat llo.'^pital, Oxmantown, Dublin, 3820, 13789, itc. 
 
 Clona^lee, Kihunnnan. Queen's Co. ; not in operation, 5113, 5115. 
 
 Clonaslce, Portarlington, Queen's Co.; not in oper.atiou, 5113, 5115. 
 Vol. II. 3 U
 
 486 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Schools — continued. 
 
 Cloneiiagli, Moiintratli, Queen's Co. ; not in operation, 5113,5115. 
 
 Coolbanaghcr, Woodbrook, Queen's Co. ; not in operation, 5113, 5115. 
 
 Donadea, Co. Kildare ; grant withdrawn, 13789 eiscy. 
 
 Dublin, Blue Coat Hospital, Oxmantown, 3826, 13789, ic. 
 
 Galway, Euglisb School, 5718 H neq. 
 
 Glyde Farm, Co. Louth, closed, 12250 et seq. 
 
 Innisbannon, Co. Cork, 1G75 ei seq. 
 
 Killashee, Co. Longford, 77G4 el seq. 
 
 Killevy Parish, Sturgan, Co. Armagh, closed, 9314 d seq. 
 
 Kilniealy, Co. Clare, 3810-2. 
 
 Limerick ; Schools in County, and Estates, 2397 et seq., 3759 etseq. 
 
 Muff", Co. Londonderry ; English School, 10593 et seq. 
 
 Oxmantown, Dublin; Blue Coat Hospital, 3826, 13789, ic. 
 
 Pallasgrcen, Co. Limerick, 4256 et seq. 
 
 Sligo, 6766 etseq. 
 
 Sturgan, parish of Killevy, Co. Armagh, closed, 9314 et seq. 
 
 Tarbert, Co. Limerick, 2''397. 
 
 Teniplemichael, Co. Longford, 7493 et seq. 
 
 Tralce, Co. Xerry, 2357 et seq. 
 
 Wexford, Male and Female School, 454 et seq. 
 
 Management of schools and estates, and as to complaints respecting same ; see above, evi- 
 dence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, Ac. of Board of Governors ; of Mr. Ilamiltoii, Inspector and 
 Registrar ; of Mr. Fetherston, Solicitor of the Board ; under Eixumns Smith Board. 
 
 And see under Names of Schools or Localities. 
 
 EscM, Rev. William, Master of Poyle College or Derry Diocesan School : Evidence of, 10781 et seq. 
 
 Instruction given remarked by Commissioners as very excellent, 10879 ; domestic arrangements 
 for boarders very satisfactory, 10853-9. 
 
 Course of instruction ; some boys for Trinity College, some for Belfast College, some receiving 
 commercial education, but greater proportion classical, 10794 : combination of classical and English 
 or commercial education in same school easily managed by a little arrangement to prevent clashing 
 of classes; arrangements detailed, 10860 et seq. 
 
 Importance of modern languages ; French and German, and natural history, should be taught, 
 10867-7U, 10935-8. 
 
 Inadequacy of present school stafT for a good combined classical and commercial education for 
 large number of boys, 10863-5, 10871-4. 
 
 Income, deduction, and net salaries of master and assistants, 10866, 10S71— 2, 10880-92 ; nothing 
 for master except what he gets from pupils, which is not much, 10892, 10914-5, 10919-23. Im- 
 portance of the endowment, without which the school could not be kept up in its present efficiency, 
 10896-8. 
 
 Want of funds for improvement of school arrangements, 10940 ; no fund for repairs ; particulars 
 in which they are much required, some parts going to ruin, 10790, 10940. Expenses lor repairs, 
 <tc., which have been paid by himself, 10892-4; by Irish Society, 10790, 10824-7, 10929. 
 
 Free pupils, twelve, 10785; average numbers, 10808-11 : nomination by agents of Irish Society 
 and Mercers' Company, 10812-8, 10917-8, 10939, 10942-4, 10976-7. Competition for free 
 places by examination instead of mere nomination would be very beneficial, 10906-13 : if thrown 
 open to all and given for merit on examination, would obviate any objection to children of higher 
 ranks of life mixing with those of humbler, and prevent any stigma attaching to the latter, 
 10906-18. 
 
 Exhibitions or scholarships; five attached to Foyle College, of £30 each, by Irish Society; 
 should be put on footing of the Royal Schools, which have .£50 ; efTcct of these exhibitions most 
 beneficial, 10899-905. 
 
 Prizes of medals and books given to boys according to good marks at half-yearly examinations, 
 10828-36, 10834; much valued, and effect useful; provided by master; matter mentioned to the 
 Irish Society, but no grant from them for the purpose, and no reply, 10924-8. 
 
 A small school library for the scholars who subscribe to it, 10797 : subscription 2s. 6<l. a-ycar, 
 voluntary, but all the boys pay; no grant from Irish Society towards it, 1U930-4 : would be a 
 good thing to increase the school library and grant models or drawings for the boys to copy, 
 10941. 
 
 Further details as to Foyle Oollege, its endowments, management, &c. ; see under Londonderry. 
 Estates : — 
 
 ESTATES UNDER CLAKE-8TBEET COMMISSIONERS OP EDUCATION. 
 Evidence, of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Board, as to estates under the Board, and 
 excessive costs connected therewith, 21372 et seq., 21386-408, 23736 et seq.; diilbrcncc of 
 management on the different estates, 21409-24. 
 
 Evidence of William Wann, Esq., Agent of Dungannon Estate under Claro-strcct Board ; exces- 
 sive costs, notices to quit, harsh measures, 23519, 23865-986. 
 
 Evidence of ./. //. Owen, Esq., Agent of Clare-street Board, as to Queen's County Estates, 
 5094-8, 5156 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Godfrey Fetherston, Esq., Solicitor to Clare-street Board ; (and see under Erasmus 
 Smith Board) ; unnecessary and excessive costs, notices to quit, harsh measures, uncertainty of 
 tenure, 23550-738. 
 
 State and management of Cavan Jlnyal School Kst.ntcs, Benison, 8103-8217, 8225-42 ; Moore, 
 7852-6, 7878 et seq. Anntgh Royal Scliool Esliite, Miller, 9664-98. Dunyannon Royal School,
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 487 
 
 Estates — continued. 
 
 11723, 11725-41, Fctliorston, 2.'5()04 d seq. (see under Commmionnrs of Education.) Ennislcillm, 
 11902-4; loM3 l)y delalcation, llSOO-l; evidence of a-eut, Mr. Beiiison, 12045-148; Vcitcli, 
 12149-83. 
 
 Want of iu.spection of, and of surveys and valuation from time to time; Cavan Royal School, 
 Bcnison, 8195-216, 8235-G. Enniskiilcn, Benison, 12063- 90. 
 
 UNDEB ERASMUS SMITH BOARD. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Fethevston, Solicitor of the Board; leases, nature and uncertainty of tenure, 
 excessive costs, and manajrenient of estates, 23635 et seq., 24019 ei seq. ; (sec under Erasmxn Smith 
 Board ; also under Commissioners of Education^ 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, kc, of Erasmus Smith Board, as to estates and their 
 management, "etc., 19074, H seq., 10088 et seq., 22874-81, 22727-8, 22765-6 ; (see under Erasmus 
 Smith Board.) 
 
 Western estates of Erasmus Smith Board, 5918 ; Galway, Blakeney, 0005-14. Southern estates, 
 2406-8; ZiWWc/,-, Bourke, 3759-3809, 4562-8 ; Kearney, 4467-4''G11. 
 
 Nature of tenure under Erasmus Smith Board, and objections to it ; Galway, Barrett, 5085-8, 
 5916-7, 0073-4; Blakeney. 6000-14; Daly, 5984-91. 
 
 Forms of Leases of schools under Erasmus Smith Board, pages 317, 321 ; under Lord Lieutenant's 
 School Fund Commissioners, jiage 318 ; under Association for Discountenancing Vice, page 320. 
 
 UNDER INCOUPORATED SOCIETY. 
 
 Evidence' of Rev. Richard Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Society, as to their estates and 
 management thereof, 20337-51, 20553-93. 
 
 Evidence of William Pidgeon, Esq., Land Agent to the Incorporated Society, 20099-701, 
 20838-109, 21075-71, 23437-57, 23209. 
 
 Complaint of Mr. Stonej/ ; nature of tenure under the Society, 19709, 19733-0. Ardill, 
 20030-51. 
 
 OTHER SCHOOL ESTATES. 
 
 Monaghan, Jac/cson School, Moffatt, 8458-78 ; Dolling, 8579 ; MKean, 8587-8. Waterford, 
 Foys School, 10454 ; Roherts, 10845 et seq. ; Iloare, 16457 et seq. 
 
 Complaints as to state, manaijement, and application of : — Oxmantown, Brady, 22497-5 
 22515-0 ; Mallet, 22521-51 ; Hone, 21935-22403. Corh Blue Coat School, 1368-9, 1372 ; Chat- 
 terton, 1377-82, 1510. Limerick Blue Coat School, 3472 et seq., 3509 c< seq. Ennis, 'Ev^smus 
 Smith's, Culliiian, 3999 ; King, 3924-5 (see Eiinis, and under Eras7nus Smith Beard) ; Enniskillen, 
 Trimble, 11913, 11931-7, 11952-3. Elphin, Dean Warburton, 7224, 7270-89. BaUyroan, 
 Queens Co. (Preston Endowment), 4702. Banagher Royal School; encroachments on lands, 
 diminished from 285 to 204 acres, 5263 et seq. ; losses by defalcation, tSrc, 5270,5272. Sligo, 
 Kidd, 6579. Monaghan, Jackson School, M'Kean, 8587-8. Raphoe Royal School; difficulties of 
 management, 11203-4, 11205-23. 
 
 Suggestions of Bishop of Down as to management of existing estates and endowments ; funds 
 sufficient if properly managed, 10470-9, 10483. 
 
 See under Endowments. 
 Estate Schools : — 
 
 Primary schools for tenants on school lands ; under Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; 
 Armagh Royal School, 9350-9, 9005-80. Kilhricken, Preston Estate, 4915 el seq. 
 
 None on estates, and no means of agricultural or other instruction for tenants ; Cavan, Benison, 
 8178-80, 8190-1 ; Moore, 7978. Queens Co. Estate of Clare'Street Board, Owen, 5172-83; Sligo, 
 Clarke, 6749, 6757, 0792. 
 
 Under Erasmus Smith Board, and Incorporated Society, see under Erasmus Smith and Incor- 
 porated Society. 
 Evans, Mr. Joseph ; Protest^uit School endowed by, at Kilkenny ; see under Kilkenny. 
 Evening Schools : — 
 
 Advantage of, for young persons, as well as adidts, employed during the day ; Kennedy, Swords, 
 10079-103. Instances, at Ballymeua, for young men and older persons, 16096-8; and one for 
 females, 10101-2. 
 
 Attendance of school boys at evening schools in afterlife ; Co7-k, Burke, 2229. 
 
 Measures contemplated for evening instruction of young men, reading rooms, lectures, &c. at 
 Londonderry, Ferguson, 11015-21. 
 
 Want of evening classes f jr mechanics, itc. ; with instruction in elements of science and modern 
 languages; Belfast, Dunville, 10488-501. Want of evening classes for young females employed 
 in factories, &c. ; Belfast, Dunville, 10494-9. 
 
 Evers, Rev. John W., p.p., Mohill,- County Leitrira : — letter from, as to Townlet and Mohill endowed 
 
 schools, 6907 : — see under Mohill. 
 Examinations, competitive : — 
 
 For admission to free schools or free places in schools ; see Free Places. 
 
 For exhibitions or scholarships ; see Ejchihitions. 
 
 For public appointments in tlie civil, military, and naval service ; see Appointments. 
 
 Examinations in schools, and prizes for proficiency; see under names of particular schools, 
 Exhibitions, Medals, Prises, &c. 
 Exhibitions or Scholarships : — 
 
 Value of exhibitions for Trinity College, and arrangements respecting, in the several Eoyal 
 Schools; Armagh, 9339-48-54-59. Cavan, 7851 ; insufficiency of, £25 only; Moore, 8028-42. 
 Dungannon, 934:8. Enniskilhn, 9348, 11894-5, and school scholarships; Greham, 11959-07 •' 
 Trimble, 11913, 11920-8 ; and exhibition founded by a teacher, 12030-42 : — {see under names of 
 respective Royal Schools.) 
 Vol. II. . 3 R 2
 
 488 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Exhibitions or Scholarships — continued. 
 
 Other schools, where Exhibitions establislied ; Cork, Blue Coat or St. Sir ph en's Hospital, 1.367. 
 Foyle Diocesan School, Lowlonjerr;/, value 1'30, and be..eficial eflect, Escott, 10899-90-5. Midleton ; 
 swallowed up in litigation, but since restored, 17G15. 
 
 Inadequate value of; Waterford Corporation School, P)ice, 17U-7, 19-3, 212-5 ; Bell, 300-18 ; 
 Hoare, 278. Gavan Eoyal Scliool, Moore, 8028-42. 
 
 Inadequate value of those established in Erasmus Smith Schools, £6 to £8 or £12, 3823-5, 
 5469-70; too small and insignificant. Droyheda Grammar School, Lacy, 12816-22. Ennis 
 Grammar School, King, 3864-8, 3872, 4056. Galway Grammar Scliool; Killeen, 5500 ; would be 
 of value as school scholarships ; Hallowcll, 20262-4. 
 
 Want of : — Banagher Royal School, 5321 ; and as to advantage of and manner of establishing ; 
 Bell, 5318 et seq. Cork Diocesan School, 1227-30. Elphin Diocesan School, Flynn, 7366. Kil- 
 kenni/ Grammar School, Browne, 132. Midlinf/ar Diocesan School, Geoghegan. 13148-50, 13168, 
 13238-44; Woodward, 13257-309. A'^avan, Preston School, Legg, 12892, 12920-5-47-9. 
 Baphoe Boi/al Scliool. 11226; Steele, 11309-32. Waterford Corporation School, Price, 176-7, 
 195, 212-5"; Bell, 300-18 ; Hoare, 278. Athlone, Moffatt, 7072. 
 
 Opinions as to the cfiect of exhibitions, and as to throwing them open to wide competition : — 
 Cavan, Moore, 8043-62. Cork, O'Brien, 1230. Dror/lieda,lacy, 12823-7. Enni.'^, King, 3868-72, 
 3947-55 ; CuUinan, 4080. 
 
 Suggestions for connecting schools with Queen's Colleges by means of, and mode of doing so ; 
 Belfast, Gibson, 10423-41. 
 
 Objections to exhibitions, especially under present system, Belfast, M'CoeIi, 10522 ; Porter, 
 10549 : — (see under Appiointments.) 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Board, as to practice, and suggestions regarding 
 beneficial eflect on schools to which attached, 21228-3, 21232-7, 21238-9,21241-3,21244-59, 
 2127.3. 
 
 Evidence of John Barlow, Esq., Chairman, etc. of Erasmus Smith Board, as to exhibitions or 
 scholarships in college under Erasmus Smith charter, 22818-32, 22957, 23001, 23023. Evidence 
 of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Inspector and Registrar of Erasmus Smith Board, 21863-6, 21886-900. 
 
 Fayan, Dr. : Endowment by, for a school at Killarney, Co. Kerry, 2337 et seq. 
 
 Faqan, WiUiam, Esq., M.P. for city of Cork ; evidence of, as to the high character of the Christian 
 Brothers' Schools, at Cork, and high estimation in which they are held ; instances of successful 
 results of education there, 1355. 
 Falloon, Mr. ,/olin. Master of Farra Institution, County Westmeath, under Incorporated Society; 
 
 evidence of, 13440 et seq. : — see under i'Vwra. 
 Farra Instilutiov, Co. Westmeath ; under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Reports of Previous Inquiries : — in 1835, a Charter School, with estate of 200 to 300 acres and 
 house, seventeen boys : in 1826 there were 111 boys, 13439. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Mr John Falloon, Master : — appointed in 1853 ; previous expe- 
 rience in teaching, 13441, 13652-6. Number of pupils, thirty-eight, of whom thirty-two free pupils 
 on foundation, and six boarders, 13440-4. Ten admitted each year, 13478. 
 
 Free pupils selected from Scriptural schools in Co. Westmeath and the schools of Incorporated 
 Society in this part of Ireland, 13445. Of the free places, four for boys educated at Scriptural schools 
 in Co. "of Westiueath : nineteen competitors for the four ))laces at last admission examination ; what 
 meant by Scriptural schools ; believes boys not admissible from National schools, but rrot aware of 
 any from them being refused, 13461-71. 
 
 Free pupils selected on public examination by deputation from the Board of the Society ; for 
 boarders, the boarders of schools in Westmeath only assemble and are examined ; boys designated 
 by numbers only, not name, 13446-51. 
 
 Course of Instruction, 13583-91, 13659-64 ; no classics or mo lorn languages, which are not part of 
 the Society's system, 13589-91 : time for drawing, copying from plans, aflbrded to those who have a 
 taste for it, 13659-64. Hours in four parts, including agricultural or gardening instruction, 13485-6. 
 
 Natureand extent of instruction in agriculture or horticulture and how managed; seven acres under 
 cultivation ; a gardener appointed, who had a model farm ; the boys like it, and all attend him ; but 
 if any decline, no constraint; health excellent, and promoted by it; does not interfere with other 
 anil ordinary instruction ; an intelligent boy on leaving after his full time at the school would be able 
 to manage a'small farm or ])laiii garden, 13484-523, 13592-616 : last master was agriculturist also, 
 and instruction was given in agriculture from books as well as pnictieally ; books not latterly used ; 
 present master the literary master and head, and the gardener or agriculturist acts as steward under 
 liiui, 13018-30 : suggestions of present master respecting the agricultural system adopted by Society, 
 who wish the boys to attend this branch of the school business, 13493, 13036-41. 
 
 J5oys do not sujiply the whole of the labour on the laml, of which he has the benefit, paying the 
 rent of the farm and disposing of the produce, 13498-502 ; i)art consumed by the house, 13522-3 ; 
 a"-riculturist i)aid partly by society, partly by master, 13599-601. Never made any calculation 
 of benefits from boys' labour, 13499 ; has not entered profits of the land as part of his emolument, 
 13524-6. 
 
 No other industrial instruction besides that in agriculture; has not turned his attention to 
 expediency of instruction in mechanical trades, as carj)cntry, ic, 13631-3-5, 13657-8. 
 
 Boy.s on leaving, unless they go to Santry school (sec Santry) to be trained, go out as stewards 
 generally, and some as teachers, 13634. 
 '■-: Dietary, and clothing, etc. — Diet jirovidcd by master at a fixed rate per head ; i>articulars of 
 dietary; compliints of insufliciency of bread, (luantity increased, 13532-43, 13549-67, 13578-82. 
 Clothing provided by master and allowed for by »(]ciety ; particulars of clothing .allowed, 13568-77, 
 1307 1-4. Lavatory arningcmcnts, 13660-70, 13675.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 489 
 
 Favra Institution, Co. Westincath — continued. 
 
 Ilealtli (if boys very good ; none in hospital, two last week from accidents, a sprain, ic, 13544-8. 
 A school library of book.s of entertainment and instruction, a good many agricultural books, 
 boys use the books, especially those who make most progres.s, and do not injure them, 13642-51. 
 
 _ Inspection of school by deputation from society, once a year, \?A^>5-G, 13520. And catcchist 
 visits the school every week, examines the boys in catechism and Scriptures, and occasionally other 
 things, inquires into general management and examines the whole house every time, dormitories 
 and meal titne, attends from eleven to two every Monday, 13+59-00, 13527-3J : catcchist enters 
 report of attendance in a book, and report sent to Board, 13457-8. 
 
 Boj's remain four years at Farra ; examined every year, and after four years the Iiest answerers 
 of outgoing boys arc selected by another examination, to be sent to Santry school (see Santry) ; 
 two always sent; nature of examination for Santry, 13452-4, 13472-83. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. R. Ardi/l, Secretary of Incorporated Society (sec Incorporated tSoriet ;/) ; Farra 
 no longer an agricultural, school; did not succeed as such, 23259, 23270-89. 
 
 Faughanvale, Co. Londonderry : Erasmus Smith School at Muff", in parish of Fauglianvale ; see Muff. 
 
 Fees or charges for pupils ; see under particular schools. 
 
 FenjiLion, Sir Robert Alexander, Bart., M.r. for City of Londonderry ; evidence of, as to Camus School, 
 Strabaue, Co. Tyrone, 10550. 
 
 As to general state of education in Londonderry, and provision for same in the neighbourhood, 
 11003-33. Great dcficie.icy in facilities for education of middle classes, and even for mercantile 
 education ; want of sufficient funds for tfic Foyfo College, or diocesan and free school united, and 
 neither amount nor quality of education given which is required ; iusufficiency of that institution 
 alone, even if its funds were adequate, 110U5. 
 
 Diminution of schools in ncighbourhnod of Londonderry, and education of clerks and mercantile 
 classes deteriorating, 11008-14. Measures contemplated for evening instruction for young men, 
 reading-room, lectures, ic, 11C15-21. Boys sent to farming school at Templenioyle, from belief 
 that the English education there is better than in Londonderry, 11012. 
 
 Other endowments for education at Londonderry besides Foyle College; Gwyn institution, 
 11021 ; and large endowment bequeathed by a merchant named Josepli i'oung for a school for 
 girls, not available, 11021-5. 
 
 Want of intermediate schools, above the National schools, for middle and mercantile cLosses, 
 11000. General want in Ireland of intermediate schools between those for classical education and 
 the lower ones; difficulties apprehended in regard to combination of classical and mercantile 
 education in same school ; but instances of combination under one master referrcil to, 11027-32. 
 Ferguson, William Dwijer, Esq., Assistant Commissioner : 
 
 Minutes of evidence taken by, at an inquiry into the complaint of the Rev. Mr. Bcrkelej- re- 
 specting Erasmus Smith English School at Muff, Co. Londonderry, irnye 307 : — (see Muff.) 
 
 Minutes of evidence and report, as to Mrs. Gausscn's complaint respecting Rainey endowment, 
 Maglierafelt, Co. Londonderry, page 315 : — (see Magherafelt!) 
 
 Fermanagh, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and eudowments, and state of education; evidence 
 taken at Enniskillen, 11880 et seq. 
 
 Fethard, Co. Tipperary. 
 
 Communications relating to endowments for schools at Fethard, and in p:irish of Ballintemple 
 (see BaUintemple), Ijy Ecv. Morgan Hickey, V. G.of Cashel, and Mr. Berry, 657-603. 
 
 Report (1812) of Commissioners of Education in Ireland; endowment of £200 under will of 
 Mr. liickey, in trust at five per cent, for additional stipend to master of parochial school at Fethard, 
 GGl. Parliamentary return (1821) referring to the endowment, 001. 
 
 Will of Mr. Hickey, communicated by Rev. W. R. Sandys, Rector of Ballintemple :— bequeaths 
 £400 for erecting a working Protestant Charter School at Fethard, to be put to interest till Cor- 
 poration grants land, and gentry suhscribe enough to support ten boj-s and ten girls ; also bequeaths 
 £200, at interest, for a schoolmaster to teach English, &c., in town of Fethard, for ever, 658. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Circular addressed to master of school returned, "not known," 062. Com- 
 munications from Protestant and Roman Catholic clergymen of Fethard : — Rev. Jlichael LafFan, r.P. 
 and Roman Catholic Archdeacon, knows nothing of any school endowment in Fethard, GG2 : Rev. 
 11. AVoodward, Rector of Fethard, states that on coming to the parish in 1812, there having been 
 no parish schoolmaster for some years, a fund left by Mr. Hickey had accumulated to some hundred 
 pounds, in hands of Rev. Wm. Armstrong : by subscriptions, built a schoolhouse, got a school- 
 master, anil received interest regularh' from Mr. Armstrong, till Board of Education was established 
 and called in this fund, which was supposed to be invested in the five per cents., the interest being 
 paid by their officer till fie died,'" when it was found tie had not invested but had embezzled tlil- 
 money; died a pauper, and money lost, 662. 
 
 Fetherston, Godfrey, Esq., Solicitor of Clare-street Commissioners of Education, (sec under Commis- 
 sioners of Education) ; and Solicitor of Erasmus Smith Board, (see under Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 
 Fetherston, Mr. John William, master of Templemiehael parish school under Erasmus Smith Board 
 (Co. Longford) ; Evidence as to the school, 7493 et seq., 7507 et seq.; and as to Essex Edgeworth 
 endowment, 7567 et seq. (see I'emplemiclHiel). 
 
 Finances; see Accounts, Endowments, Estates ; and under names of particular schools, itc. 
 
 Fisher, Joseph, Esq., proprietor of the Waterford Mail; Evidence of, in reference to Bishop Foy's 
 school, Waterford, 1750.)-25. — Has had Foy boys in his employment ; <me educated exclusivefy at 
 the Foy schoof, the best composit(jr he ever saw ; and in consequence of his good education became 
 a reporter, 17506-14. Has another Foy boy an apjirentiee, of very fair education ; has several 
 apprentices, and tfiinks his education not neglected, but a very fair education and fully up to the 
 average of the others, 17514-7.
 
 490 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Fisher, Joseph, Esq., Wateiford, — contiuued. 
 
 Objections to a boarding school for boys of this class; original design of Bishop Foy to have a 
 day school in the city, far more conducive to wel.'are of the children for whom intended, 17517 
 et seq. With the income of Foy School, about £1,400 a-year, an institution might be founded for 
 education of different classes : an upper school, paying ; a second school, for gratuitous education ; 
 a third, for education and board; further particulars of suggested arrangements, 17525. 
 
 Want of inspection, and supervision by a local committee, for Foy School, 17525. — See under 
 IVattrford. 
 
 FUzgerahl, Eev. Edward, p.p. of Cahirciveen ; communication from, as to endowment left by General 
 Count O'Connell for a school at Cahirdaniel, in parish of Kilcrohane, county Kerry, 2323. (See 
 under Cahirciveen). 
 
 Fikgercdd, Francis A., Esq., Q.c. ; opinion of, as to Commissioners' power of inquiry into Erasmus 
 Smith endowments before passing of Act, page 298 : — See Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Fitzgerald, Mrs. Harriet M. E. ; letter from, as to Mulling-ar Diocesan School, a school without 
 scholars, pa^re 302 ; (see Mulliiiga;r.) 
 
 Fitzgerald, Rev. James, Curate of Roscommon, visiting manager of Ranelagh Girls School at Ros- 
 common ; Evidence of, as to Ranelagh Girls School at Roscommon (see Eoscovivwn), 7103-27 : as 
 to admission to Ranelagh Boj's School at Athlone isee Atlilone\, 7000-7102 : as to Miss Anne 
 Hall's endowment for boys and girls schools in town of Roscommon (see under Eoscrimmon), 
 7450-3 : as to endowment under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, for a school at Holywell, county Ros- 
 common ; endowment lapsed and land irrecoverable, (see Hoh/well,] 7455-9. 
 
 Fitzgerald and Vesey, Very Rev. Lord, Dean of Kilraore and Rector of Castleraghan, county Cavan ; 
 letter respecting parochhal school at Castleraghan, 7816: evidence, 7817-21 : (see Castltraghan). 
 Letter as to school of Kilmore. endowed by Association for Discountenancing Vice, 7822 ; as to 
 establishment and means of support of a .school on townland of Gartbrattan ; now closed ; — another 
 school in townland of Corratobber /or female children and little boys, 7822-3 : evidence, 7823 : 
 (see Kilmore). Evidence as to school at Ballintemple, 7825 (see Ballintemple). 
 
 Flannery, Thomas; eudowment by, of £20 a-year for a school at Waterford (see Waterford), 23183. 
 
 Flogging ; see under Pimishmtnts. 
 
 Fiynn, Rev. Hugh J., master of Elphiu Diocesan School ; evidence of, as to Bishop Hodson's 
 endowment for a grammar school at Elphin, and removal of his father from mastership, and 
 from receipt of the endowment claimed as attached to the Diocesan School, 7228 et seq. Evidence 
 of, as to Elphin Diocesan School, 7341-7434, 7447-8. — See under Elphin {Diocesan School and 
 Bishop Hodson's Endowment'). 
 
 Foley, Rev. Robert; School of St. Mary Shandon, Moses Dcaue's endowment, Cork ^see under 
 Cork), 1672-4, 2305-14. 
 
 Food ; see Breakfast. — Complaints of, in reference to Foy School, Waterford ; see under Waterford. 
 
 Ford, William, Esq., Town Clerk of Dublin, Agent to Dempsey Trustees: Evidence of, as to Miss 
 Dempsey's endowment of male and female schools at Kells, Co. Meath ; amount and management 
 of endowment, &c., 12409-29. 
 
 Letter from, respecting Hevey endowment for a charity school at Mullingar, and proceedings of 
 the trustees since death of Mr. Hevey, in 1837, in management of lands, erection of buildings, 
 provision for education and maintenance of children, itc, 13359. Evidence of, as to present state 
 of buildings, and particulars of building contracts, and accommodation, 13360-6. As to manage- 
 ment and application of the funds hitherto, and pending the opening of the new school buildings, 
 13369-84. Annual accounts and publication, l:i385-7. Course of instruction, that of the 
 Christian Brothers, a good English education, 13398-402; provision for classical instruction, 
 13404-12. As to provision of will making the endowment open to children of all religious 
 denominations, not excepting Protestants, and as to effect of placing the school under the Christian 
 Brothers, in reference to this provision, 13395-7, 13417-34. 
 
 Foster, Josiah, Esq., twenty-two years a resident in Swords, Co. Dublin : Letter from, referring to 
 memorials from Roman Catholic inhabitants representing necessity of reforming the system of 
 management of the Borough School of Swords, by which Roman Gatliolics have been obliged to 
 discontinue attendance of their children at the school, 14030 : — Evidence to same effect, 14035 
 et seq., 15500-3 : Roman Catholic inhabitants, at instance of their clergy, failing in the object of 
 the memorials, have withdrawn their children and erected new schools, 14039, 14043 : wished to 
 obtain a Roman Catholic master and mistress, and to discontinue the Protestant version of the 
 Scriptures as a class book, 14038 ; not satisfied with regulation on the subject recently adopted by 
 the governor.^, 14047-9: would have a Roman Catholic master and mistress, and times allotted 
 for separate religious instruction of Protestants and Roman Catholics, 14043, 14051-4: a Roman 
 Catholic teacher required in each room ; funds suflicient to provide for mixed education of all 
 classes ; would not add to the expense to have master or teachers Catholic, 14040, 11043, 14050-1. 
 Further evidence on the subject, and as to communication with Archbishop of Dublin and Roman 
 Catholic Archbislio[), Dr. Murray, and others as to the managcmont of the school, 10319-22, 
 16414-6. 
 
 Persons to whom coals were refused for refusing to send their children to the school, 15503. 
 
 Produces boys to prove the system of flogging in the school, 15500-2. 
 
 See under Swords. 
 
 Foundations ; sec Endovnnents, Estates, Exhibitions, (to. ; Erasmus Smith, Royal Schools, and under 
 names of schools. 
 
 I'oy, Bishop,'8 School, near Waterford ; see under Waterford. 
 
 Foi/le College, or Derry Diocesan School, and endowments for schools by the Hon. Irish Society; aco 
 under Londonderry. 
 
 Frankfort, Co. Sligo ; Valentine's school at Killglasa: see Killglass.
 
 JNDEX TO EVIDENCE. 491 
 
 Franldin, Willinm, Esq., Man.acror and Inspector of Limerick Braiioli of Provincial Bank ; Evidence 
 of, as to Gont'ral State of Education in Limerick, and iii.adeqiiate j)ri)vi,siou for it : qualifications 
 required in youn^ men for the bank; submitted to examination; importance of good education 
 for commercial life, and of modern languages; want of good practical schools in Limerick for 
 combined cla.ssic.al and commercial education ; easily practicable, 4012-50. 
 
 Free Phtces in Schools, or Free Scliolars : 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Board, as to practice in schools und<r that 
 Board; Royal Schools, and Diocesan Schools, &c., 21208-27. 
 
 Provisions of charter of Erasmus Smith as to ; see under Eraumvn Smith. Notice issued by Eras- 
 mus Smith Board as to admission of free pupils in tiicir (Jrammar Schools; Barlow, 2260G-704 ; 
 Fnnis, King, 3846-8; Galwai/, 5471, 20291-4 ; and see under nam<-s of the respective schools. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, &c. of Erasmus Smith Board, as to schools under that 
 Board, 22G9G et seq. Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Inspector and Registrar of Erasmus 
 Smith Board, 21823-84. — See undov E7'asmii.i Smith Jhurd. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Mr. Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Society, as to foundation boarders in 
 schools under that Society, 20G00-10 ; sec under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Questions as to the right of admission, and limitation to particular classes or localities; Athlone 
 Moffatt, 7007 et seq.; Fitzgerald, 7097-102. Clonmel, Kettlewell, 707-8-9, 772-4, 826, 841* 
 1044 ; Kenny, 1041. Oxmantown, Hone, 22036-45 ; Hyndman, 22554-6 ; Kyle, 22564-9. 
 Swords, sec Swords ; and see uuder respective Royal Schools and Diocesan Sclwols. 
 
 Claim for admission as free boarder in Eras7nus Smith Grammar School; dalivay, Barrett, 5689 ; 
 Barlow, 22702, 22708 et seq.; Hamilton, 21882-4. 
 
 Better provision for free places required; Naas, Hayes, 13962-4. Limricl; Vandeleur, 2682 
 et seq. ; and see under Diocesan Schools, Royal Schools, iSic. 
 
 Evidence in favour of admission by competition upon examination, and in what mode ; Ard II, 
 20600-10. Athlone, Moffatt, 7041, 7069-70; Fitzgerald, 7100-2. Belfast, Bryce, 10381-4. 
 Cavan, Moore, 7878, 8021. Castlebar, Stonev, 6129. Dimdalk, Studdert, 12293. Etuiis, Cullinan, 
 4016, 4081-7. Galway, Nesbitt, 23158-63; O'Leary, 6047-8, 60G0-2. Londondern/, Escott, 
 10906-10918; Green, 10986-96. Roscommon, Fitzgerald, 7104, 7109-13; and see evidence of 
 various witnesses. 
 
 Free boarders, and how selected or admitted ; Athlone, M'Namara, 7153-8. 
 Evidence for and against boarding schools for lower classes ; see under Boarding Schools. 
 Right and mode of admission in different schools, and in whom vested ; se; under respective names. 
 Free Schools: — 
 
 luterprefcition of term " free schools" or " public schools," in reference to Royal Schools ; 
 
 Armagh, Guillemard, 9372, 9468-77 ; and sea under respective Roy d. Schools. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Schools, Royal Schools, and others ; see under their respective names. 
 
 French Language ; see LangiKiges. 
 
 Frewen, Mr. Thomas ; schoolhouse built by ; see Innishannon, Co. Cork. 
 
 Fullerton, Rev. Thomas, Rector of Stranorlar, Secretary of Acting Committee of Robertson^Schools, 
 Visitor of Raphoe School, Co. Donegal : Evidence of, as to Parochial Schools endowed in Diocese of 
 Raphoe, by Colonel Robertson, 11119 ?< seq.: provision in Colonel Robertson's will for establishment 
 of a school in each of the tliirty-one parishes then existing in the diocese, and for supjilj'ing them 
 with books, 11120-1. Money in the funds, under a Committee of dignitaries and clergy of the 
 Church, 11122-.3, 11200-1. No fund for repairs, but any surplus not required for books allowed to 
 be expended in repairs; generally in good repair, 11124-5, 11138-40. Visitors appointed by 
 Bishop; inspector; half-yearly reports, 11126-7, 11201. 
 
 Evidence of, as to Robertson School at Raphoe : — School in bad repair, and comfortless, 11129-37. 
 No endowment fund for repairs; a parochial school, to be kept in repair by incumbent, like other 
 parochial schools, 11138-40. Inquiry as to authority under which it is supposed the incumbent 
 is bound to keep such schools in repair, 11173-81, 11191-9. Few landed proprietors in the parish, 
 chiefly church lands; small incomes of incumbents from which repairs are expected, 11182-99. 
 
 Mixed school, for boys and girls, and of all religious denominations, 11146, 11155-7. As visitor 
 examines the children to ascertain their proficiency, who are also taught catechism by master, and 
 catechised by clergymen, 11153-4. Scriptures read d.aily, and master questions upon them 
 11159-61. Nothing to prevent children of any denomination attending, and no objection made 
 11158. Numbers in the several Robertson Schools collectively, in last three years, of different 
 denominations; in 1854, 734 Church of England, 294 Presbyterians, 627 Roman Catholics, 111G2-5. 
 
 Considers the Raphoe school a fair .specimen of the Robertson Schools generally, both as to 
 instruction and discipline ; favourable opinion of Commissioners as to competency oi" master and 
 satisfactory management of the school, 11166-72. 
 
 No industrial teaching; no sewing for girls ; thinks it desirable, 11147-9. Another school in 
 the town for girls, in connexion with the Ciiurch Education Society, where industrial instruction 
 is given, — sewing and knitting, &c. : girls desiring industrial instruction go to it, 11149-52. 
 
 See further, under Raphoe. 
 
 Galway, Co. anil Town of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education- 
 evidence taken at Galway, 5405 et seq., 20110 et seq., 23120 et seq. 
 
 Erasmus Smith English Schools; boys, 5718-5882 : girls, 5883-5913. 
 Erasmus Smith Grammar School, 5466-5717, 5914-5917, 6015-6024, 6030-9, 6074. 
 General State of Education and provision for same, 5992-6004, 6025-9, 6040-6062 6074. 
 Statement by Mr. Magce, Newry, (see Armagh,) as to endowments, 9373. 
 
 Western Estates of Erasmus Smith Endowment, 5685-9, 5916-5991, 6005-6014, 6073-4.
 
 492 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Ga I way — co n t i n u c d . 
 
 EttASMUS SMITH ENGLISH SCHOOLS, BOYS AND GIRLS, GALWAT. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Jiiqidries, &<>., /)718-23 : original foundation, 5719: sub- 
 scriptions and grant fvoni Lord Lieutenant's Fund, for building, &c., grant of site and salaries of 
 master and mistress from Erasmus Smith Board, out of surplus, under Act of Geo. L; conditions 
 of grants, 5718, 5719-23 : numbers of pupils, salaries, &c., 5723. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Mr. Andrew lleid, Master: — Present number of pujiils, twenty; 
 nmnbors increasing rather than diminishing, 5880-1 ; average in 1854, ten ; in 1855, sixteen, 
 5724-3G : all free pnjiils, 5737*. Pupils from upper classes of society in neighbourhood of the 
 town, 5747-8 : all Protestants, and taught Protestant catechism, 5749-50, 5753-4 . tliere have 
 been Roman Catholics ; no interference with their religious belief, 5750-2. Connexion of school 
 with Church Education Society, 5719, 575G-9. 
 
 School not open in 1853, for want of a teacher, 5761-4. 
 
 Qualifications of master : examined on his appointment by master of Grammar School ; nature 
 of examination, 5801-3, 5853-4. Is also parish clerk ; could not support himself ou the school 
 without other employment, 5S55-7. His salary, and received a gratuity from Erasmus Smith 
 Board before ho had been appointed a year, contrary to the rules ; no premiums of books for 
 best schools, 5858-79. 
 
 Education in English, 574G. Books supplied by Erasmus Smith Boanl ; iusutficiont supply of 
 books and requisites; ijuantity required aud applied for not supplied, 5S1S-2G. 
 
 Ilules for management of school not supplied to him on his appointment ; afterwards applied 
 for and received, two years afterwards; received on his appointment rules for teachers, 5841- 
 5850. 
 
 Vacations allowed, exceeding those prescribed by the rules, in consequence of his not having 
 been supplied with them, 5827-5841, 5851. 
 
 Inspection of school by Secretary and Registrar of Board, once since appointment of master in 
 December, 1S53; examined the schools and boys, 5738-45, 5765-70. lusufficient visitation of 
 school by local clergymen, and no examination by them, 5760, 5771-84, 5794-5818. Trustee and 
 visitor, a clorgvman and warden, walked in aud walked out, once during 1854 ; did not examine 
 or catechise, 5785-93. 
 
 Evidence of Miss Anna Jane Clegg, mistress of Girls' School : — Small number of pupils ; eight, 
 five in attendance, and three new pupils ; school apparently without pupils from January, 1854, 
 to June, 1855; got three to commence with, and two or three afterwards, who stopped a 'iav; days 
 and went away, 5883-5900. Present number, six girls aud two boys; bo3'-s and girls mixed, 
 thou'di bovs' school near, because of wish of parent that the boys should come to her to prepare 
 for master of Grammar School, 5901-13. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH GRAMMAR SCHOOL, GALWAY. 
 
 Charter and rules (see under Erasmus Smith and Erasmus Smith Board), 5466, 5409. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries, itc, 5467-71. School arrangements, numbers, 
 charges, salaries, income, and expenses, &c., at diiferent periods, 5467-9 : school formerly in the 
 town and obicctiouablo ; erection of now schoid and schoolliouse at small distance from the town, 
 54 67;. formerly Protestants and Roman Catholics in the school, 5468. 
 
 Exhibitions to Trinity College, under 10 Goo. I. ; their number and value ; aud mode of selection 
 for same, 54G9-70. 
 
 Return of numbers and description of pupils, annis lS\D-5o, page 306. 
 
 Fresenl Inquiry. — Return from Ciovernors, containing notice advertised by them, that applica- 
 tions for admission as free pupils in the four Graninuir Schools (sec also Drogheda, Ennis, Ttpperary) 
 must be made to the Governors, 5471. 
 
 Head master, Rev. Mr. llallowell, not in attendance on first inquiry, being in Germany on account 
 of ill-health in his family, 5466, 5476-8. Subsequently examined on further inquiry {see below for 
 his evidence,) 20110 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of M r. T/iomas Killeen, second master. — Number of pupils at present, only ton, liut 
 some not returned from vacation; no boarders; of the ten, six free pupils, three of them being 
 his own children, and one other taken for a mere trifle, 5479-83, 5490-1. — Governors' notice as 
 to free pupils, publisbed in 1854 ; believes they have not since refused any application for admis- 
 sion of free. pupils ; an application now before them, 5487-9. 
 
 Discrepancies between returns of master and Governors as to boarders, and numbers of day 
 scholars and free pupils, 5519-41. 
 
 Large number, forty, of l)oardcrs in a previous master's time, 5493, 5521 ; two or three iu present 
 master's time; at present none, 5480, 5519-35. 
 
 Number of day scholars in previous years, 1852-4, generally about thirty, besides free pupils,5536-9. 
 
 Amount of :iccommodation; thirteen rooms ; school accommodation for 100, and another hundred 
 could be put in, 5555-GO. 
 
 Supposed causes of decline iu numbers attending the school, and witness's alleged apprehension 
 of Governors' displeasure, 5492, 549G 9,5507-8. Thinks terms too high for tho locality, 5494, 
 550G ; Roman Catholics give preference to Roman Catholic schools, 5495 ; no inteifercnco witli 
 their religion, but tlicir catechism not taught, 5593-6; but dismissal of assistants bid'ore his 
 ajipointmcnt, 5597 : preference for schools in town, rather than go so far from town, nearly a mile, 
 5495. E.vhibitions too small, i.'8 a-year a poor thing for entrance at Trinity College, 5500. 
 
 Chief reason for falling oil', admission into Queen's College before they are properly instructeil at 
 school, or knew their grammar; had to obtain grammar and school instruction from tho college 
 jirofessors ; entered with scholarships, £24, afterwards lost, from pupils not being able to hold tiieir 
 l)laccs from having left .school too soon, 5500-5. Letter from Mr. Killecn, aftorwards qualifying 
 this statement; evidence of Rev. J. VV. Hallowcll, head master; the statement too general aud 
 exaggerated, 20140-55.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 493 
 
 Galway : Erasmus Smith Grammar School — continueil. 
 
 Otlior classical sc1ioo)h in ni'i;;!il)()urli()od ; successful competition of moilcl seliool, which injures 
 tlio gnmiiniir school, 5508-5000. 
 
 Want of more ji.iiil to.ichers in the schodl ; inadequacy of master's salary ; one science teacher 
 ])ai(I by him, 5506, 5510-8. In absence of linarl master, witness does all the duties for him, not 
 receiving a proportion of the salary, nor would he expect it, tlioui,'h entitled by charter, 554J-'J. 
 Catechises and expounds catechism in absence of head master, whose brother, a cler;,'yman, came 
 for ten days, and catechised and ma<lc the children read the Bible while there: no other cler;,'yman 
 has visited the school, 55-17-54. 
 
 Has private tuitions ; sometimes receives payment for teaching' boys of the school out of school 
 hours, 5577-88. 
 
 Course of Instruction in the school, and division of business between master and assistants ; 
 classics ; but little mercantile or commercial education in it, 5580-00, 5G08-5G25. Unsatisfactory 
 answering of boys on examination, 5G-'8-48. 
 
 No Hebrew, 5G72-5. Allowance by Governors for teaching modern languages and chemistry to 
 the pupils by Professors of Queen's College ; a few taught a little French ; no chemistry, 5650-71. 
 
 No great demand for mercantile and commercial education in Galway beyond what the Claddagh 
 National School affords, 5611-3. 
 
 Pu[iils from grammar school chiefly go to college, one a commission in artillery, one in the navy, 
 and one gone into the bank, some gone to sea, 5401, 5607. 
 
 Supply of school re(|uisit('s insntlicicnt ; no supplies to grammar school from the Governors, 
 5648-58. No school liijrary, 567G-7. 
 
 Pension to late master, Mr. Eaton, 5592. 
 
 Plaj'-ground, formerly let as a military parade ground, 55G0-74. 
 
 Income and emoluments from salaries, residence, land, &c., of the endowment, 55G 1-S : about 
 £300, or at the rate of £50 a-year for each free pupil, 5678-83. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John W. HaUowell, Head Master, 20110-304. — School not in a flourishing or 
 healthy state; causes, 20113, 20115 et seq. On his appointment found the classes empty; had been 
 no boarders for some time and few day pupils, 2011G, 20134 : previous master had been recjuired 
 to resign, from failing powers, 20135-0: ditticulty of retrieving the character of the school; 
 financial embarrassment of the country in recent years and consequent apathy about education ; 
 Erasmus Smith Estates had sull'ered, and Governors unable to give assistance he applied for, 
 2011G-21 : nature of his correspondence with the Board, 20117-23. 
 
 Return of classes and nundicrs of pupils, annis 1C40-55, jJctge 30G. 
 
 Reduction of salaries, and heavy pressure of rates and taxes on his resources, 20124-8. Appli- 
 cation to Governors to pay rates and taxes, refused ; though paid for Drogheda School, 20120-33. 
 
 Pensions or retiring allowances to schoolmasters granted by Erasmus Smith Governors in some 
 cases ; granted to his predecessor ; cannot state whether a regular system, 20140-5. 
 
 Effect of opening of Queen's Colleges on the school, 20147 et seq. : on opening of Colleges, a 
 lower scale of qualifications for scholarships adopted, and parents transferred their children from 
 school imperfectly prepared; school sutl'ercd by loss of pupils from this cause: pupils not 
 adequately prepared for College, having left school too soon, 20146, 20172-4. Explanation from 
 Mr. Killeen (supra) qualifying liis statement on this subject in his evidence (5500-5), which 
 applied only to first year or ciglucen months of the Colleges, and was exaggerated; would not 
 himself have made the statement, 20146-55. In first year a large number of his pupils entered 
 the Queen's College, and all obtained scholarships, 20153 : of twenty-six who have entered the 
 College since its opening, twenty-four have obtained scholarships and exhibitions, and nearly all 
 have retained them ; numbers who left his school for the College at different periods, would not 
 materially affect the numbers in school, 20156-71. While he lost some for College, others 
 came who would not have come but for the College, 20171. 
 
 Standard for scholarship examinations since raised j superiority of a high standard over a low 
 one, upon diligence and efficiency, 20175-8. 
 
 Injury to school from religious objections and withdrawal of Roman Catholics, and unfounded 
 suppositions of prosclytism ; majority of population Roman Catholic, ami school supposed to be exclu- 
 sively Protestant,20170-S2. No instructions from Governors as to religious denominations of pupils ; 
 but they have nominated Roman Catholic tree j)upils as day scholars ; never without some, 20182-3. 
 
 Averse to receiving Roman Catholics as boarders, believing himself bound to give religious instruc- 
 tion to boarders, and would not like to have boarders to whom he would be restricted from doing 
 so, 20181-5. 
 
 No rules and orders from Governors for guidance of masters and ushers, 20186. Has not the 
 Charter of Erasmus Smith, but has seen it, 20187-8 ; not aware till last week of the rule in it as 
 to catechising on Sundays; no instructions from Governors on the subject; has used the Church 
 Catechism, but for Protestant Episcopalians only, 20189-92. 
 
 No visitation or inspection of the school by the Governors since his appointment in 1S48 ; occa- 
 sionally visited by individuals, but no inspection or visitation by appointed inspectors, or officers 
 of Board of Governors, 20103-8. 
 
 Prevalent supposition that the intentions of Erasmus Smith are not carried out, and that there 
 is alienation and misapplication of funds ; suspicion of prosclytism ; contrast between amount 
 received from estates in Galway and amount laid out on school, 20190-205. 
 
 Low scale of charges by witness for boarders and day scholars ; but notions in Galway that thirt}- 
 or forty shillings a year is sufficient for instruction in all the branches for boys entering College, 
 20206-7. 
 
 Difficulty of providing for teaching of modern languages in Galway School ; aid from Erasmus 
 Smith to enable boys to attend professors in College, but insufficient, and arrangements incon- 
 VoL. II. 3 S
 
 494 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Galwaij t—Erasimis Smith Grammar School — continued. 
 
 venient, 20207-15,20233-5. Great importance of instruction in modern languages; and does 
 not tliink it interfere;; with ordiunry instruction in ar.siont languages, 2120G-8. Instruction in 
 modern languages not allowed by Governors to free pupils generally, 20219-22. 
 
 Model national school, interferes injuriously with Erasmus Smith School ; originally intended for 
 training teacliers, hut takes pupils for general education, of most respectable classes, physicians, 
 merchants, kc, on cheap terms, same as lowest class, 2s. &d. a quarter ; and has a classical m.aster 
 advertised, 20226-30, 2024G-7. Model school better supplied with maps and sciiool requisites 
 generally, 20231-3 : boys sometimes removed from model school to his, from !iad h.abits contracted 
 by mixing witli lower classes in the former, 20230: boys considered distinguished and commended 
 at model school inferior to boys of same age in his school, 20230-45. 
 
 Temporary causes of small number of pupils at present: his own absence, from the illness of a 
 relative ; number trebled since his return, 20110, 20248-52. 
 
 Refers to examinations of his pupils by Professors of Queen's College, in testimony of their 
 proficiency, and results of his teaching : dissatisfaction with Mr. Killeen's evidence, 20253-GO. 
 
 Suggestions for improvement of the school : — Want of means to provide a sufficient staff of 
 competent masters ; present Erasmus Smith exhibitions to Trinity College, £6 or <£8, of little 
 v.alue ; would be valuable as school scholarships for supporting boys at the school, 20262-4. 
 Desirableness of efficient inspection, 20264 : and of a laboratory and chemical apparatus, 20264. 
 Further observations, and comparison between English and Grammar schools, 20266-74. 
 
 Combination of classical and commercial instruction in same school, might be difficult in details, 
 but completely practicable; a school of the kind would overcome difficulties in Galway, 20275-7. 
 
 As to arrangements for religious instruction and diflerent denominations, 20278-90. 
 
 Admission of free pupils ; publicity of orders of Governors on the subject ; nomination by 
 Governors without reference to master, 20291-4. No distinction in school between free pupils and 
 others, and not known who are free pupils, 20295. 
 
 Half-yearly examinations and medals; no rules from Governors as to distribution of medals, left 
 to master's discretion, 20295-302. 
 
 Evidence of Edward Berwick, Esq., President of Queen's College, Galway, 23120-31, 23135, 
 23144: — Incorrectness of evidence of Mr. Killeen (svpra,) as to students being admitted into Col- 
 lege, and obtaining scholarships there, without know-ing Latin grammar : particulars of scholarships 
 awarded, and principles upon which given, 23122. 
 
 Effect of the College upon attendance at the Erasmus Smith Grammar School at Galway, 
 under Mr. IlaUowell, 23123-5. Difficulties of Mr. H.alloweirs school, and favourable account of it 
 at present, 23135, 23144. 
 
 Number and localities of classical schools in Province of Connaught, 23126-7. High character 
 of Model National School at Galway, 23128-31. 
 
 Evidence of William ITeshi/f, Professor of Greek in Galway College, and formerly of Latin for 
 five years : — Unfairness of Mr. Killcen's statenient (supra.) as to scholars admitted from Galway 
 Grammar School; favourable account of the scholars who have entered from it into College, 23133. 
 Favourable account of Mr. Halloweirs school ; examination of pupils in it, very creditable to 
 master, 23134-45. 
 
 Disadvantages under which the Galway Grammar School labours ; want of aid from Erasmus 
 Smith Board; and as to religious in-truction in such a district, the general impression being that 
 it is a Protestant foundation in a Roman Catholic district; want of aid to provide assistant masters 
 in science, classics, modern languages; want of control by master over appointment of the assistant, 
 who is at present a classical master (like head nuister) appointed by governors, 23163-5. 
 
 Of thirty-five jnipils in Erasmus Smith School, no loss than eighteen free pupils ; embarrassing 
 to master from dislike of better classes to send children to mix with free pupils : indiscriminate 
 admission of free pupils, upon no principle : suggests that admissions should be confined to those 
 unable to pay, and those exhibiting aptitude for higher branches of education: admission for merit 
 and aptitude would do away with discredit attaching to admissions on the foundation, 23158-63. 
 
 Model National School; examination, and high oiiinion of instruction in it; branches of instruc- 
 tion, 23146-56. 
 
 Standard for entrance into Galway College lower than desirable, owing to bad state of interme- 
 diate education, 23134. 
 
 Intermediate education in the province, at very low ebb ; almost impossible for middle class to 
 obtain tlic necessary amount of instruction for entering College ; and small number of students 
 in College owing to this cause, 23157. lla.s no doubt good cla.ssical schools would have good 
 attendance of scholars, who would come to College in a diffisront state of preparation, and would 
 leave it better prepared for their various callings, 23158. 
 
 Evidence of John Samuel Barrelt, Esq., a tenant on the Erasmus Smith Estates, Galway; 5684- 
 5717, 5915-5917, 6068-6074. — Applications to the Enismus Smith Board for a free admission for 
 his son to tlie Galway Grammar School, considering himself as a tenant entitled to it under the 
 charter (as to terms of charter, see under Erasmus Smith), 5089. Pass.ages of the charter relied on 
 as giving a right to free places as boarders for tenants on Erasmus Smith estates, 5699-5702, 
 5914-5. Was refused at first on groun<ls that the funds would not allow it, but afterwanls was 
 offered admission for tlie l)oy as a day scholar, lioarding with the nuistcr or other ]ierson in tlio town, 
 5690. Heard tliat the education was so bad, that he stated ho would not send the boy at all, even 
 free, unless it were amen<lo(l ; .'•ent him to another school at £40 a-year, 5690-7 : many send their 
 childreu from Galway to other schools, 6074. 
 
 One ground for refusing free admission as boarder stated to lie the expense of the Erasmus 
 Smith Board in Dublin, 5(190, 5703 : expense of cstaldisiiment slated to bo £1,200, but returned 
 at £399, and previously at i'443 ; different amounts of receipts and disbursements stated at various 
 times, 5703-5717.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 495 
 
 Galway : — Erasmiis Smith Grammar School — coutimicJ. 
 
 Evidence of John Blakevey, Esq., Secretary of Gr;uiil Ji:i-y, Co. of Town of Gahvay, as to Erasmus 
 Smith Gniiiiniar School, Galway. — Was cilucatcil in the school thirty years ago ; at that time forty 
 boarders and forty or fifty day boys ; six or seven tutors ; majority Ki;man Catliolics ; a Roman 
 Catholic teacher who instructed the lioinan Catiiolic boya in relifrion every Saturday : decline 
 of tlic school; master not sufficiently paid ; former master made prolit and i)ccame wcaltiiy : no 
 Roman Catholic teachers now ; an exclusively Protestant school ; not formerly so, 0015-23. 
 Is of opinion that the present arrangements of the Erasmus Smith (-iranimar School really prevent 
 lioman Catholics from sending their sons to it ; grounds of his belief; if there were Roman Catholic 
 assistant masters, though master a Protestant and no interference with religious faith, school well 
 managed would bo numerously attended b}' Roman Catholics, GOoO- 9. Bearing of the Charter 
 and Act of Parliament in this particular, G03G-8. 
 
 As to general state of education, Galway. — Formerly a very g(;od classical school in the town 
 besides Erasmus Smith School, 6024 ; less classical education now ia Galw.ay ; want of a well- 
 niaisaged school, giving a good classical and commercial education, in such way that Roman 
 Catholic parents need not apprehend religions interference; would be supported not only from the 
 iown but from more distant localities, 6025-9. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Peter Daly, Parish Priest and Vicarof Galway, ns to tlio Erasmus Smith Endow- 
 ment and general state of education. — Small amount of education aliorded for the large endowment 
 of .t'3,400 : suUicicnt for education of the district and liberties of Galway ; necessity of a great 
 change, 5992. Great expense as compared with numbers educated; and comparison with large 
 numbers and small expense of school in connexion with National Board, 5995. Complaint of Roman 
 •Catholics as to these schools being professedly and designedly for Protestants alone, 5995. Thinks 
 .the funds of Erasmus Smith Schools should be ai)plied to education of the poor of all relio-ious 
 denominations, 5997. As to charter and intentions of founder, 599.S_6004:. 
 
 Evidence of Joseph O'Learij, Esq., Vice-President of Queen's College, Galway, as to general state 
 -of education ; provision for same in neighbourhood, 6040-62. — Grammar School should be a feeder 
 to Queen's College, but is not ; master and assistant efficient ; but Roman Catholics have no confi- 
 dence in the school as conducted ; agrees with j\lr. Blakeney, in his suggestions for meeting the 
 objection ; should have a head master at a better salary than at present, say £200, and .second and 
 third masters at proportionate amounts, say £120 or £150, and £100 ; there could then be an 
 efficient stafl', one of the masters to be a Roman Catholic as a siwe qua non ; no interference with the 
 religion of the Roman Catholic pupils, but some one for them to look up to and to instruct them once 
 or twice a week in their own religion ; there would then be an efficient school, 0040. Does not 
 say there should not be a Protestant clcriiyman at its head, but would prefer no clergyman at head 
 of the establishment, 6040. Would wish to have a school with men of the first education for 
 masters, — Graduates of the Queen's or other Universities, 6040-1. 
 
 Difficulty of getting boys prepared ; conic to the College too soon, 6043-4 ; teaching them 
 grammar in college, 6048. 
 
 AVould then lower the charge for boj's in Grammar school ; six guineas too high ; sav three 
 guineas a-year ; and would have no free jjupils : only subject to indignity, and the day for free 
 scholars gone by, 6045-6, 6059 ; but if free jdaces were given as a reward for superior answering 
 at examination the objection would be counteracted, 6047-8, 6060-2. 
 
 Would provide pensioffs for masters after twenty years' service, 6049-51. 
 
 Would not select the master from assistant masters ; but upon competition and examination by 
 the Board of a College, the assistant masters not going in for such examination, 6052-7. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, &c. of Erasmus Smith Board, 22697-8 et seq., 22708 et seq., 
 22727, 23004 et seq. Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Inspector and Registrar of Erasmus Smith 
 Board, 21751-7, 21770, 21774-5, 21808 et seq.— See under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 ESTATES : ERASMUS SMITH WESTERN ENDOWMENT. 
 
 In formation fi'om previous reports, as to names and situation, extent, rental, and income of Western 
 Estates, 5918.' 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Return from Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools : — Extent of estate in Gal- 
 way; and gross and net income in 1853 ; lands also in Sligo, King's County, and Westmeath, 5918. 
 
 Evidence of John Blakeney, Esq., Secretary of Grand Jury, Co. of Town of Galway, in reference 
 to Western Estates of Erasmus rimith Schools. — Evidence as to leasing powers ; title of court- 
 house, 6005. Difficulty and expense of obtaining renewal from Governors, the previous trustees 
 havini: omitted to get renewals ; but was renewed : afterwards applied to convert the lease into a 
 perpetuity under Leasehold Conversion Act ; legal difficulty, objection being taken that the lease 
 was altogether bad, not having been renewed by previous trustees : many tenants similarly 
 circumstanced and desirous of being relieved from liability to forfeiture, 6006. Particulars of 
 lease ; alteration of 25 Geo. III. c. oo, desired, in order to remove the uncertainty of tenure and 
 give a lease in perjjetuity, 6007-14. 
 
 Evidence of John Samuel Barrett, Esq., a tenant on the Erasmus Smith Estates, Galway, in 
 reference to the Western Estates of the schools. — Holds 200 .acres at rent of £'149 a-year, and "paid 
 arrears e(iuivaleut to a fine of £700 ; holds on usual lease of twenty-one j'ears ; considers this kiml 
 of tenure iujuriou.s, as checking improvements ; would himself improve more, but not on a twenty- 
 one year's lease with chance of renewal, oQd:~j-S, 5916-7, 6073-4. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Peter Bali/, Parish Priest and Vicar of Galway, as to Western Estates of 
 Erasmus Smith Schools : — Tenure on lease of forty-one years, renewable every seven, on fine 
 tenant paying also for the lease ; objections to this tenure on ground of expense and of risk of 
 forfeiture ; instance, 5984-5. Would have a lease for ever at certain rent, so that there mio-ht be 
 no danger of being disturbed, to tenants laying out money and paying their rent, 5985. Does not 
 complain of the Governors, but wishes for an alteration of the Act of 25 Geo. III. c. 55, in this 
 p.articular, 5987-91. 
 Vol. II. 3 S 2
 
 496 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Galway : — Erasiiitis Smith Wcstei-n Estates — continued. 
 
 Evidence of Edmond L. Hunt, Esq., Land Agent for Erasmus Smith Estates. — Accounts for last 
 few years not produced, but has the present rental of wl'at he is about to receive, 5922. His only 
 objection to hand it in is lest lie should not be acting rightly towards the Board of Governors 
 in giving their account ; but hands it in on being informed of the Commissioners' powers and 
 desire, 5922-33. 
 
 Particulars of estates, rental, gross and net income, for 1S55, and average for nineteen previous 
 years, 1835-185i ; renewal fines, arrears and amounts struck off, and other particulars of the 
 'Western Estates, 5934-72. 
 
 Value of the estates considerably increased by large sums hiid out by tenants in building and 
 otherwise, 5973. Lands held not on building leases, but on " failh leases," that jvill not bo disturbed, 
 5974. Re-valuation of property ; inequalities between rent and valuation, 5975-8. Tvvent_y-one 
 years leases, and principle of renewal ; would not increase rent on account of bouse built by tenant, 
 but would for other causes increasing the value of land in locality, such as establishment of a 
 Packet Station ; (iovernors have not increased rent on account of improvement from a tenant having 
 laid out a largo sum of money, 5974, 5979-Sl. 
 
 Gardiner, Theophilus, Endowment by, for schools in Downpatricl;, 10284 et seq. : see under Down- 
 patricL 
 
 Garnetf, Bishop ; Endowment of school at Clogher, Co. Tyrone, by, and by Chas. I. and Bishop 
 Leslie, 11G35 d seq. : see Clugher. 
 
 Garthrattari, school formerly on townland ofj in parish of Kihnore, Co. Cavan ; see Kdinore, Co. Cavan. 
 
 Gaussen, Mrs., Letter from, relating to Rainey endowment for school at Magherafelt, Co. London- 
 derry, complaining of intentions of testator not being carried out; and inquiry into same, 10573- 
 et seq., anil page 315 : — see Magherafelt. 
 
 Gaynor, AlpJionsu~%, master of school at Killarney ; communication from, as to Dr. Fagan's endow- 
 ment, 2337 : — see KiUaniei/. 
 
 General State of Education ; Evidence of witnesses under this head, as to existing provision for 
 education, want of further provision in difl'erent counties or localities; want of schools for middle 
 classes, and suggestions ; see under Education. 
 
 Geoghegan, Rev. Edward J., Master of Diocesan school, Mullingar ; evidence of, 13146 et seq. 
 
 Schoolhouse his private property, 13147 ; in bad and inconvenient situation, 13219-2G. 
 
 Salary about £140 a-year, how made up and what for, 13244-53. 
 
 Has no pupils ; had two in July ; ten in 1841 ; cause of falling off; no inducements to come to- 
 the school ; no scholarships, or exhibitions, or prizes, 13148-50, 131G8; wishes for exhibitions 
 like those of the Royal schools, 13238-44, 
 
 School never visited by Clare-street Board ; no rules for his guidance ; raanageuient of school 
 left to his own discretion ; not required to report beyond the returns of numbers, 131(j2-7. 
 
 Free pupils; number at diS'erent times, and bow admitted, 13180-5, 13191-9 ; applied to Clare- 
 street Board for guidance as to admission of free pupils and was referred to Act of Parliament j 
 left to his discretion, 13186-90. 
 
 As to want of classical schools, 13151, 131G9-70 ; has never ijiveH commercial or mercantile 
 education specially, 13171-9; gives Engli.-:h education with classical; considers his a classical 
 scliool ; other schools for English education, 13202-18. 
 
 Gernmn Languatje ; see Languages. 
 
 Gihhings, Rev. Thomas, Rector of a parish adjoining Midleton : Evidence as to character whicli the 
 Midleton En<]owed school bears, ly:;G7 et seq. — From result of inipiiries he made, when con- 
 sulted has advised parents not to send their children there, 18273 : — see Midleton. 
 
 Gibson, James, Esq., Assistant-Barrister for Queen's County, a Commissioner of National Educa- 
 tion : — Letter from, as to Belfast Academical Institution, and suggested connection of it and .similar 
 schools, with the Queen's College; by means of exhibitions, 10423. 
 
 Evidence, of, 10424. — Collegiate department of the Institution being abandoned since opening 
 of Queen's Colleges, the schools of the lustitutimi now [he only eliicient branch of original foumlation; 
 importances of a high class of schools, for education of miil<lle clashes and for fully realizing the benedts 
 of tlic colleges; Royal schools and others are emlowed witii cxhibitiims to Trinity College, supjilving 
 a regular influx of students, and dimiiiisliiug competition; Queen's Colleges, more connected with 
 schools not similarly endowed, and under comjiai'ative disadvantage in this respect; suggests that 
 the Belfast Academical Institution, and other sch(jols of similar character, standing in close relation 
 to Queen's Colleges, should have exhibitions attached to them such as exist between tlie Royal 
 Schools and Trinity College, and that this should be included in recommendations as to the right 
 application of trust funds, csi)ecially in regard to the Belfast Academical Institution and Belfast 
 Queen's College, 10423. 
 
 Nothing more liighly calculated to advance education among the middle classes, 10424. 
 
 The exhibitions would be moic eliicient, and give greater imi>etus to masters, if attached to com- 
 peting schools, to all of whicii the exhibitions to Queen's College should bo open, 10425. 
 
 Further evidence as to the manner <jf carrying out the suggestions, 1042G-41. 
 Gibson, Rev John, formerly a pupil at Midlingar Dioces:in -scliool : Evidence of ; high order of educa- 
 tion there, 13319-20; small nundier of pujiilH, 1:1321-3G; in his time oidy two pupils besides 
 himself, 13313-8; cau.ses of falling off, 13337-S. 
 
 Want of ri-modi-lling of Schools, to suit requirements of the lime, by inlroducliMU of iiioderu lan- 
 gnages, sciences, clieniistry, and requirements for [iuIjIjc situations now thrown ojicn, 13339 li seq. 
 
 Gill, Mr. Joseph, Master of Lisnaboo Boys and Uirla School, Co. Longford ; Evidence of, 7645 tt seq.: — 
 sec Lisnaboe.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 497 
 
 Girls Schools: — (see under resrcctive names of schools or localities.) 
 
 Importance of ; ,S'(('or(/s, Sheridan, 14118-22. Want of <jood intermodiatcschool.s for middle classes; 
 CaMebar, M'Grcal, G290-7. And sec under names of witnesses, general state of A'dncalloii, ic. 
 
 Gleeson, Mr. Micliael, Town Clerk of Clonnicl, produces list of freemen ; power of Mayor to take part 
 in nomination of master of Clonmcl Endowed School (see Clonmel,) 893-4. 
 
 Gli/de Farm, Co. Louth : school formerly under Erasmus Smith Board, hv whom master's salary was 
 paid; not now in oi)eration : schodlhoMso in |>ossessiou of a privati^ individual ; question whether 
 uny grant or ondownient for huildiiig was made hy the Erasmus Smith Board, or whether any site 
 was conveyed to them for purjioses of scho(d, 12247, 12250-12252. 
 
 Informaiion from previous reports, 12251. 
 
 Correspondence on the subject: — Letter, <tc., from Rev. Somerset L. C. Townscnd, n.n., Incum- 
 hent of Louth, 12247, 12250. Letter from Lord Clermont, 12252. Lettirfiom T Lee Norman 
 Esq., Corhallis, Louth, 12253. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, kc. of Erasmus Smith Bo.'ird : (see uiich'r Erasmus Smith 
 Board), 23068-71. 
 
 Gorjgin, John, Esq., father of a hoy formerly at Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork ; evidence 
 favourable to the school, 1897S et ^cj. : — (sec Midletuii.) 
 
 Goijijin, Richard Mason, Esq., formerly a pupil at Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork : evidence as to 
 the master's (Dr. Hodgen.s) kindness and attention, 18990 H seq : as to the alleged irrcularities 
 19004-25.— (sec Midleton.) 
 
 Goggin, yS^iep/fen, formerly a choir boy, and Blue Coat School boy. Limerick; Evidence of, 3181 c'.seq.: — 
 see Limerick, {Blw Coat School.) 
 
 Goreg School, Erasmus Smith; lease with clause requiring instruction in the Scriptures, page 321. 
 
 Governing Bodies : — 
 
 Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests ; see Commissioners. 
 
 Commissioners of Education in Irelan<l (in Clare-street): see Commissioners. 
 
 Commissioners of National Education (Marlboron;;h-strpet) : sec National Schools. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Board of Governors ; see Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Church Education Society (in Kildare-place) ; see Church. 
 
 Incorporated Society ; see Incorporated Society. 
 
 Association for Discountenancing Vice, Irish Society, &c. : see Association, Irish Society, ic. 
 
 Unsatisfactory constitution and variety of existing central authorities ; Moore, Cavan Royal 
 School, 7878. Porter, 1219.S-202. Cullinan. Ennis, Erasmus Smith Board, 4003 et sect Barlow 
 Erasmus Smith Board, 22800-9, 22922-5, 23003 ; Kyle, Clare-street Board, 21202. 
 
 Connection with or inspection by different bodies, and conflict of authority ; Barlow Erasmus 
 Smith Board, 22898-908, 22928 ; 'Hamilton, Erasmus Smith Board, 21722-5 ; Trimble,' ui^S-Q. 
 Porter, 12198, 12207. Templemichael, Card, 7C1G-8. I'allasgreen, Murphy, 4452-61,' 4400. 
 
 Want of a general superintending body or central Board of Eilucation ; Bishop of Down 
 10470-9, page'oQi. Cork, liullen, 2092-2103. Enni.<:, Cullinan, 3981-5, 4096. Arma.jh, Kirk', 
 9042, 9648-01. Xacan, Power, 13073-6. Belfast, M'Cosh, 1U522. Midleton, Archdeacon Kylei 
 18777-9; Jfuies, 18854-60. Necessity of paid commissioners: Evidence of Dr Kyle Secretarv 
 of Clare-street Board, 21161, 21202, 21340-3. ' 
 
 AVant of a chief central authority, under one Commissioner or Inspector-General, page 336. 
 Minister of Education or Public Instruction, Bishop of Down, page 303 ; Pejrter 12198-207. 
 
 Value of local committees in regard to supervision of schools: Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill 
 Secretary of Ineori)orated Society, 23352-6. Want and proposed constitution of local committees' 
 or local superintending bodies for .schools : Cavan, Boi/al School, Moore, 7878 ; Cor/: Dun=combe' 
 2046,2315-8. i,'HmX Cullinan, 3980, 3992-3. J/(■f«.'/o/^ Archdeacon Kyle. 18777-9. " Water'- 
 ford, Foy School, Dean Hoare, 16775-85, 17257; Bishop of Cashel, "17141-54 1715')-(;3 
 17200-12, 17219-22. Belfast, M'Cosh, 10539-46. ' ' ' ' 
 
 Government Appointments, throwing open to competition ; see ApjMintmenis. 
 
 Governors; see Governing Bodies. Of Erasmus Smith Endowments ; sec vmdcr Erasmis Smith Boa}-d. 
 
 Graham, Mr. 7'/io?n««, m.aster of Ballymacbrennan School, Co. Down ; endowed under Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, and in connection with National Board ; Evidence of, 9738-43 : — late master informed him 
 the laud, ten acres, (now in possession of one of the committee or trustees, see under Bedlymac- 
 brennan,) was given in perpetuity, for he saw the late Marquess of Downshire si"u a iiar<er to 
 that effect, 9739-42. = i i- 
 
 Graigue, Co.^ Carlow : School in existence at ; evidence of Rev. Frederick J. Trench, Rector of 
 Carlow, 75. 
 
 Grammar Schools : 
 
 Endowment for, at Elphin ; term " Grammar School" no longer applicable to present state of 
 things; Duin Warburton, 7290, 73U2 et stq. — See Classics, and Ckissicul Schools. 
 
 Carrickmaeross, Co. Monaghan, 9299. 
 
 Drogheda, Erasmus Smith, 12740 et seq. 
 
 Elphin, Co. Roscommon, Bishop Hodson's endowment for, 7223 et seq. 
 
 Ennis, Co. Clare, Erasmus Smith, 3814 et seq. 
 
 Galway, Erasmus Smith, 5466 et seq., 5914-7, 6015-24, 6030-9, 6074. 
 
 Kilkenny, Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 84 et seq. 
 
 Lifford, Co. Doucgal, Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 1111 1-7, 1 1405 et seq. 
 And sec under names of respective schools or localities ; Iioyal Schools, &c. 
 
 Provisions of charter of Erasmus Smith as to Grammar Schools, sec under Erastmts Smith ■ and 
 evidence of Mr. Barlow and Jlr. Hamilton, under Erasmxts Smith Board.
 
 493 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Grammar Schools — contiuueJ. 
 
 Grammar Schools under Erasmus Smith Boanl ; absence of regulation of; see under Erasmu$ 
 Sniiih Boai-d. 
 Grand Juries and presentments ; see Diocesan Schools. 
 
 Green Coat Schools: Cork, Green Coat Hospital, 1094 et seq. See under iimws of places or schools. 
 Gi'een, William, Esq., Agent of Irisli Society and Treasurer of Foyle College ; Evidence of, as to 
 Foyle CoUesre, 10047 et seq. Acts as Treasurer of Foyle College, uuder an Act of Parliament of 
 Geo. III., which he has never seen, 10948, 100.59 ; has very slight funds ; formerly subscriptions 
 from various companies ; all discontinued except that of Mercers' Company ; Irish Society's sub- 
 scription, £2S0, and £150 for five exhibitiou.s, 10959-62. Surplus funds of Irish Society aud their 
 application, 10997-11002. 
 
 Prevalent opinion in the Irisb Society that they had power to make or withdraw grants at 
 pleasure, 10970-1 
 
 Nomination of free pupils left by the Society to him without particular instructions from or 
 report to them, 10949, 10952-8. Principle upon which boys are selected by him for free places ; 
 sons of poor but respectable people, not well able to pay for so good an education as they ought to 
 have, 10950-1. Free boys receive instruction as day scholars only, 10963 ; but Mercers' Company, 
 who contribute £50 a-year, send two pupils as boarders, who pay £10 a-year each, selected by 
 agent of that Company's property in Ireland, 1U963-7 ; Mercers' grant no gain, 1U942, 10976-7. 
 
 Persons selected for free places, generally connected with the estate of the Society, but not 
 alwavs • and some from Donegal and Armagh, recommended by parties connected with the estate, 
 10980-5. Applications rarely or never refused, because the class of lads eligible is generally 
 understood, and those thought not to be eligible do not apply, 10978-9. 
 
 As to selection of candidates by examination ; doubtful whether it would answer the purpose, the 
 object being to assist those in reduced circumstances but require education they are not able to pay 
 for ; limited to that class, the selection of best answerers for free places might be advantageous, and 
 ■would counteract any reflection on ground of their being free pupils, 10986-96. 
 Gregory, Rev. E. Tight, Rector of Kilmore, Diocese of Meath : — Letter from, with enclosures, as to 
 Diocesan Schools formerly at Trim, Co. Meath, and at Longford, aud sale of the property on sub- 
 stitution of one school at MuUingar, (see Mullingar,) jtage 301. 
 
 Greham, Rev. John, Head master of Royal School, Enniskillen : — Evidence of, 11954 et seq. ; number 
 of pupils, boarders, day pupils, and free pupils, 11954-8. 
 
 Foundation scholars, or school scholarships ; .£80 a-year allocated by Cl.are-street Commissioners 
 of Education fur four at ,f 20 each : selected by master from most meritorious boys, whose names he 
 sends up to the Board with particulars .according to their regulations, 11959-60 : all day pupils ; 
 boy holds the scholarship while qualifying for the University, no particular limit of time, and the 
 majority have obtained exhibitions to University, 11962-7. 
 
 Free pupils : — bas had no special instructions as to selection of free pupils ; has seldom refused 
 any ; if he had reason to doubt correctness of conduct would not admit ; selects those, generally 
 speaking, who could not aflord to pay, 11961, 11968-70, 12027. 
 
 Mr. Trimble misinformed in his statements as to admission of free pupils and their treatment (see 
 Trimble,) 11971-2, 12043. 
 
 Boys chicfl}' of Church of England, some Dissenters, two Roman Catholic free pupils, 11994; 
 never beard of any objection, on religious grounds, to scndipg pupils, 11995. 
 
 Course of Instruction : — In the first instance, of course, classical ; Royal Schools from the first, 
 and continue, classical schools; but the education not exclusively classical; some receive an English 
 education only, and at a reduced rate, without classics ; eleven such at present time, 1 1975, 12022-4. 
 Details of the branches of English aud science instruction, 12021, 12028-35, 12044. French and 
 German taught as extras, 119/'6-80, 11982-3. Drawing, 11981.' Head master's own part, 1198G. 
 A constant object to obtain the most efficient English master he could get ; names assistants, their 
 qualifications," and advancements, 11973-4, 11984-5, 12014-20. 
 
 Discipline : — modes of punishment j no such thing as flogging, 11993, 
 
 Examination of boys every half year; how conducted, 11998-9 : examinations discretionary, 
 but regularly held; premiums given on these occasions, 11990-2, 12001, 12009. 
 
 Prizes ; at half-yearly examinations, books and medals given as premiums ; a sum given by tho 
 master, and the boys pay a small sum to make up a fund for the pur])ose, 1 1990-2. 
 
 Inspection once only in the twenty years since he was appointed, a considerable time since ; 
 inspection by a <lcputation sent down by Clare-street Commissioners of Education, Dr. Elriugtoa 
 an.l Bishop of Cork, 11996-7, 12006-8. 
 
 Legacy of .£20 a-year left by a former assistant in tho school to aid a meritorious young person dur- 
 ing his first three years in College, in fact to found a scholarship for a pupil from this school, 12036-42. 
 
 Domestic arrangements and superintendence of them; health of boys good, 11987-9, 12002-5, 
 12010-3. 
 
 See further, under Enniskillen. 
 
 GrvLb, Benjamin, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends, Clonmel ; trustee of some endowed 
 schools; — A want of schools for tho middle and respectable clnsses in Clonmel, lias (>xistcd for 
 several years ; a, well conducted classical and commercial school, as formerly, would have many 
 pupils, some of whom are at i>resent sent elsewhere ; no such school at jiresent in Clonmel, 1083-5. 
 Kind of instruction that is required; tho very best English oduciitiou wanted in (Jloiimol, with 
 French and (lonnan; character of tho residents in this neighbourhood reijuinw a good school, which 
 would \)" well supported, 1088-95 : does not think tho Model School and Mechanics' Institute fill 
 up the blank, 1095-1102. 
 
 Munster Provincial School, high character of it, 1103-7.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 499 
 
 GuiUi'mard, Ji(;v.W!?Iinm Tlenr;/, lica/1 master, Arma;,'h Royal scliool : Letter from, to tlic Priinatc, in 
 1851, contains a atateuient in answer to nieniorial complaining o! management of the scliool (see 
 under Armagh), 9371. Evidence of, 037G et scq. 
 
 School conhl ho made to accommodate eiffhty as hoarders ; has thirty boarders and twenty-six 
 day scholars, of whom sixteen free jinpils, D.'JTS-SO, 9388-9, 9j07 : numbers at various times, 0001-7. 
 
 No inspection of the school ; makes a return half-yearly to Education Commissioners, 0390-1. 
 
 Course of education in the sclio(d detailed, including classics, arithmetic, algebi'a, geometry, 
 jiiatluunatics, French, German, history, geography, drawing, kc, 9302-5 : furllier evidence in 
 reference to course of instruction, and as to its fitness to f|nalify for military appointments, the civil 
 service, and commercial or morcantilo establishments, OtOS-OllO, 9t4'i-0-tG7 ; no special instruc- 
 tion for commercial occupations or trade ; would not rocomnieud a pupil intended for such pursuits 
 to enter the school, 0410-9153, 9G23. 
 
 Bates of charge for boarders and day scholars, 9589-9600, 9008. 
 
 No limitation as to religions persuasion ; religious instruction every day ; at present all Protestants 
 and no Roman Catholics, 9398-9403 ; had a llomau Catholic free boy, who distinguished himself; 
 believes one of the parents of two free boys now in scliool is a Roman Catholic ; never asks as to 
 religion of the boys, 0100, 9401-G, 9490-1. Manner in which religious instruction is afforded, 
 9010-5. 
 
 Doubts practicability of a system of combined classical aiul commcix-ia! education in same school, 
 and under same masters ; system of Edward VI. School at Birmingham; Cheltenham Preparatory 
 College, and results of instruction there, 9420-9445. Difficulties of combining the two classes of 
 education further stated, 9508-88: but has no doubt it could be managed with a large number of 
 masters ; would be matter of arrangement, 9574, 9580. — Letter from ; suggestions as to difficulties 
 of combining commercial and Grammar School education ; objections to combination, separate 
 schools better, pacje 304. 
 
 Free schools ; meaning of tlio terms libera schola, pullica sdiola, 9372, 9468-0477 : different 
 construction in Act of Elizabeth, 9009. Rules for admission of free pupils in Armagh school (page 
 474) ; number exceeds the number he is required to admit ; has received all who applied, except 
 some whom he considered legitimately disqualified ; grounds of refusal in the particular cases, 
 9478-9489,0017-0622. 
 
 No religions test for free places or scholarships ; open to all denominations ; examination as to 
 acquirements before admission, 9492-7. 
 
 No difference in treatment of boarders, day scholars, and free pu[)ils ; prizes open to all alike, 
 and some taken by day boys and free pupils, 0498-9503. Thinks the majority of college exhibi- 
 tions have been taken by free pupils, 0545. 
 
 Mixture of boys of different ranks of life advantageous, 0505-0517. 
 
 School exhibitions, as distinguished from colIei;e exhibitions, not required for a school like 
 Armagh, with free places, and day scholars able to pay, 0518-9528. 
 
 Has no doubt the exhibitions for Trinity College have a beneficial effect on the diligence of the 
 boys and the standard of school acquirements : the eflect would be increased liy throwing open the 
 exhibitions to competition of different schools, by increasing diligence and emulation, but apprehends 
 it might produce undesirable emulation amongst the masters by tendency to cramming, 9535-44. 
 
 See further as to arrangements and management of Royal School at Arm.agh, under Armagh. 
 
 Gullg, Rev. James, Sligo ; Evidence of endowment by Adam Ormsby, Esq. ; £30 a-ycar charged upon 
 property of Mr. Ormsby, for support of charity boys of Sligo ; in hands of Incorporated Society, 
 who expend it on Primrose Grange School, 0085-9. — See under Sligo. 
 
 Givi/n, Joseph; Charitable Institution, Londonderry, founded by, 11021, 11034 et seq. : see under 
 
 Londonderr)/. 
 Hachett, Bartholomew, Esq., father of a boy formerly at Midleton Endowed School ; evidence, 10031 
 
 et seq. — See Midlelon. 
 Hoicketi, William, Esq., fatlier of a boy formerly at Midleton Endowed Scliool ; evidence, 19041 
 
 et seq. — See Midleton. 
 
 Mall, Miss Anne, endowment for a school for boys and girls, in town of Roscommon, and for building 
 dwelling-house for master and mistress, 7449 et seq. — Sec under Eoscommon. 
 
 HaUowell, Rev. John W., Head master of Erasmus Smith Grammar School, Galw.ay ; Evidence of, 
 5400, 5470-8, 20110 d seq. 
 
 Decline of school, and causes, 20113, 20115 et seq. Return of numbers and classes of pupils, 
 annis 1849-55, page 306. 
 
 Effect of opening of Queen's Colleges on the school, 20147 et seq. : on the opening of the Col- 
 leges, a lower scale of qualifications for scholarships adopted, and parents transferred their chil- 
 dren from school, imperfectly jnepared ; his school suffered by loss of pupils from this cause ; 
 and pupils not adequately prepared for College, having left school too soon, 20172-4, 20140. 
 Standard for scholarship examiuations since raised; superiority of a high standard over alow 
 one, upon diligence .and efficiency, 20175-8. 
 
 Religious objections and withdrawal of Roman Catholics, and unfounded suppositions of prosely- 
 tism ; majority of population Roman Catholic, and school supposed to be exclusively Protestant, 
 20179-82. No instructious from Governors as to religious denominations of pupils ; but they 
 Lave nominated Roman Catholic free pupils as day scholars ; never without some, 20812-3. 
 
 No rules and orders from Governors for guidance of masters and ushers, 20186 92. 
 
 No visitation or inspection of the school by the Governors since his appointment in 1848, 20193-8. 
 
 Prevalent supposition that the intentions of Erasmus Smith are not carried out, and that there 
 is alienation and misapplication of funds ; suspicion of proselj'tism ; contrast between amount 
 received from estates in Gahvay and amount laid out on .scbool, 20199-20-5.
 
 500 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 EaUoioell, Rev. John W., Galway — continued. 
 
 Pensinn.s or retiring allowances to sclioolmasters granted by Erasmus Smith Governors in some 
 cases; granted to liis predecessor, 20140-5. 
 
 Difficulty of providing for teacliing of modern langnnges in Galway school ; aid from Erasmus 
 Smith insuthcient, and arrangements inconvenient, 20207-15, 20233-5. Great importance of 
 instruction in modern lanLTUagcs ; does not interfere with ordinary instruction in ancient languages, 
 21206-8. Instruction in modern languages not allowed by Governors to free pupils generally, 
 20219-22. 
 
 Model National School interferes injuriously with Erasmus Smith School ; originally intended for 
 training teadiers, but takes pupils for general education, of the most respectable classes, physicians, 
 merchants, ic,, on cheap terms, same as lowest class, is. 6J. a (quarter ; and has a classical master 
 advertised, 20220-30, 20246-7. Model school better supplied with maps and school requisites 
 generally, 20231-3 : boys sometimes removed from model school to his, from bad habits conti acted 
 by mixing with lower classes in the former, 20230 : boys considered distinguished and commended 
 at model school inferior to boys of same age in his scliool, 20236-45. Refers to examinations of 
 bis pupils bv professors of Queen's College, in testimony of their proficiency, and results of his 
 teaching: dissatisfaction with Mr. Killeen's evidence, (see under Galway,) 20253-60. 
 
 Suirgestions for innirovemeut of the school, 20262-74. Desirableness of efficient inspection, 
 20261. 
 
 Combination of classical and commercial Instruction in same school, might be difficult in details, 
 but completely practicable ; a school of the kind would overcome difficulties in Galway, 20275-7. 
 
 As to .arrangements for religious instruction and different denominations, 20278-90. Averse to 
 receiving Roman Catholic boarders, believing liimself bound to give religious instruction to board- 
 ers, and would not like to have boarders to whom he would be restricted from doing so, 20184-5. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlov, Chairman, etc. of Erasmus Smith Board, in reference to Galway 
 Grau'.mar School and statements of Mr. Hallowell and Mr. Killecu, 22697-8 et seq., 23021 et seq., 
 23004 et Si^q. ; see under Gahoay, and Erasmm Smith Board. 
 Hamilton, Hon. Mrs. Anne, endowment bj% 9821 et seq., 12254 et seq. — See mider Dinuhdl; Incor- 
 porated Society's School. 
 
 Hamilton, Rev. Hugh, Registrar and Inspector for the Board of Governors of Erasmus Smith 
 Schools : Letter from, with extract from charter, and opinion of counsel as to power of inquiry 
 by the Commissioners respecting the Erasmus Smith endowments, before passing of Act, images 
 297-8, pafjc 299. Evidence of, as to Erasmus Smith Schools geuerallv, and accounts and ma- 
 nagement of Era-mus Smith Board, 16424 et seq., 21521 el seq., 22717, 22S37-9, 22858, 22891-2, 
 22896, 23037, 23039-43, 23074, 23094-7-9, 23109, 23793 et seq., 24230 et seq. :— (sec under 
 Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 
 Evidence of, as to Swords Borough School ; see under Siiwds. 
 
 Hamilton, Rev. James; Endowment by, and by Judge Ward, for school at Killough, Co. Down, 
 9778 et seq., 20305 et seq. : see KiUotKjh. 
 
 Hamilton, Mr. John, master of St. Nicholas School, Moses Deane's Endowment, Cork : Evidence of ; 
 see under Cork. 
 
 Hammond, Mrs. Elizabeth, housekeeper, Bishop Foy's Scho(d, Watcrford : Evidence of; see under 
 Waterfcrrd. 
 
 Hanna, Rev. ./., Clogher, Co. Tyrone ; Letter from, as to Clogher Endowed School ; bequest of Bishop 
 Sterne for endowment of the school, invested in land, called the Midletoii Estate, Co. Armagh, 
 11647. — Communication with Secretary of Bishop Sterne's trustees: Primate not aware of any 
 school in Clogher endowed by Bishop Sterne out of Mi<lleton Estate, 11648. 
 
 Hargadan, Rev. Ii(dinond, r.r. : Bequest by, for school formerly in chapel of Annadown, Co. Galway 
 (see Annudoiun, &c.), 5410. 
 
 Harper, Charles, Esq., Medical Practitioner, Cavan : Evidence as to Royal School estate ; holds land at 
 Billess, formerly part of the school estate: evidence as to value of the lands as compared with 
 other lands in the neighbourhood, 8243-63. 
 Harpur, Rev. Tliomus, Rector of Maryborough, Queen's Co. : as to general state of education, and 
 want of good school ; respectable classes utterly destitute of means of education in the locality ; 
 aTees with evidence of Mr. Cas.san (see Cassan); a classical school would bo very advantageous to 
 tiie locality; formerly one, very fairly attended, 5130-4. 
 Harrell, David, Esq., Steward and Receiver, Blue School or Aleyn's Blue School, Downpatrick ; 
 Evidence of, 9837 et seq. : 
 
 Unsatisfactory .state and management of the schooks, and repeated comjdaints; inefficiency of 
 the master; warnings to him and notice of dismissal, for want of attention to progress of the 
 children, 9892-9963 : reports of school not going on in satisfactory manner, to pation, Jlr. Kerr, 
 who contemplated alteration with a view to raise the character of the school, and establish a 
 ,'ramnr,ir school, 9893-9898. 
 
 Unsatisfactory progress of the children comiilMiiiod of also by the Dean's lady, who attends the 
 firls school regularly, 10020-1, 10052-1. Enqdoymcnt of sclioolboys and girls ; the former in 
 gardening, ikc, the latter in nec<llework and household offices, 9895-7, 10022-30. 
 
 No inspection of schools beyond that of the clergyman, Mr. Moffiitt ; and similar dissatisfaction 
 expressed in regard to the girls school as in regtird to boys school, 9921, 9963, 10002-19, 10032-8. 
 Comjilaints by the clergyman, Mr, Moffiitt, 9921 et seq. 
 
 Alleged difficulty in the way of removing the master and mistress, notwithstanding complaints 
 and remonstrances, 10058-63. 
 
 Foundation and Particulars of endowjuent ; Regulations; Admission; Apprenticing; Clothing; 
 Medical Attendance, &c., (sec under DownjMtriclc.) 
 
 o'
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 501 
 
 llarrk, Mr.; bequest by, for MiJlcton Endowed School, Co. Cork, lost, 17G0G (see Midlelon.) 
 Harris, Rc>v. WiU'unn, Kijlcvaii, Co. MonuglKui ; Endowiiiriit.s by, for biiildiii;,' four .sclioolliou.ses, two 
 in pari.sh of Au.i^liaboy, two in iiari.sh of Killevan ; at Craj)pa;}li an.l JJiskard, 9:304, 
 
 Harvey, Thomui^ Smith, bookseller, .stationer, and printer, Waterford : Evidence of, a.s to boy.s he lias 
 had as apprentices from the Foy School, 17-lG:i et seq. — See under Waterford. 
 
 Hayes, Robert Stokes, Esq., Coroner, Naas : Evidence of, as to general .state of education and jirovision 
 for same in tiio locality : Naas a good locality for a good .school ; would be well attended if Pro- 
 testatit and lloman Catholic children couhl be brought to mix togother ; not Protestants enough to 
 support a good school for tiiem alone ; objections of Roman Catholics, especially where master a 
 Protestant, 131)43-8. Better provision foi' free jdaces re(iuired, 13'jGl'-4. A.s^ to provision and 
 prospects of a good English school if establislied in the locality, 1:WG.J-7U. 
 
 Government aid required, 13971. 
 
 As to an educational tax and objections to it, 13072-5. 
 Ha-Jett, Wi'liam, Esq., j.p., Manager of Eank at Londonderry : — Letter from, 107GG ; pamphlet 
 handed in by, 107G3 ; evidence, and written statement given in evidence, 10707 et seij. 
 
 Want of endowment for the Diocesan School of Londonderry, 107GG-7, 10770. Subscriptions for- 
 merly from London Companies, now withdrau-n, 107G7. Old endowments in land, for a free school, 
 kept by Irish Society in their own hands, 10770 ; intention of Crown to provide by emlowment for 
 a free school frustrated by Irish Society ; but funds considered to bo a trust fund; Irish Society 
 consider their grants voluntary, 10771 eiserj. (See under Lomlonderry, Foylc Volk'je.) 
 Hebrew ; provisions of Erasmus Smith charter for teaching ; see under Erasmus Smith, 3815, 3820-1. 
 
 Heivi/, James, Esq., Endowment for a Charity School at JluUingar, Co. Westmeath, 133.j7 et seq. Sec 
 Mul/iii(/ar. 
 
 Hewitson, Archdeacon, and Dean Scardeville's endowments for a Protestant School at Swords Co. 
 Dublin : sec Swords. 
 
 Hibernian Marine School, Dublin : Report and correspondence as to the state of the accounts of paftes 
 323-32.5. 
 
 Hiclcey, John, Esq., Chairman of Town Commissioners, Naas, Co. Kildaro : — Evidence of, as to 
 general state of e<lucation and want of ailequate provision for same ; a good mercantile and classi- 
 cal school, with modern languages, without distinction of religious opinions, would succeed 
 13979-SO, 13987-9 ; children at present sent to a distance, 1398f ; objections of Eom.an Catholics 
 to send their children to diocesan school under a Protestant master, 13982-6. 
 
 For establishment of a good school, public funds required, 13990; but unwillingness to pay an 
 educational tax, 13993-14000. 
 
 Hickey, J. L., Esq., Registrar of Diocese, Waterford Corporation Free School : — Will of Bishop 
 Dowues, 363. (See under Waterford.) 
 
 Hickey, Rev. Morgan, v.G. of Cashel : Communications relating to endowments for schools at Ballin- 
 temple and Fethard, Co. Tipperary, by Rev. Morgan Hickey and JMr. Berry, G57-GG3. (See 
 Ballii/teirple and J^ethaid.) 
 
 Hickey, Peter, Esq., Chairman of Town Couimi^sioners, Ardee, Co. Louth : — Evidence of, as to 
 Erasmus Smith School, Ardee : Town Commissioners obliged to i)ay X20 towards salary of master,and 
 consider they should have some control in management of the school, 123G1, 12367, 12371 : wish 
 to have a voice in appointment of master, and to visit and overlook the course of educatiim, 123G8-9. 
 Complaints have been whispered that different religious persuasions are obliged to read books they 
 do not aiq)rove of or that belong to another persuasion ; as, that Roman Catholics are obliged to 
 read the Testament of the Established Church, 12370. 
 
 Hickson, John C. : Endowment by, for Roman Catholic Poor School, Tralee, Co. Kerry, 2329 et sen., 
 2382 ct seq. : see TraW. 
 
 Hickson, liichard S-, Esq., Government Accountant ; as to accounts of Erasmus Smith Board, 
 19702 : (sec Erastmis Smith Jloard.) As to sale of stock or funded property of Blue Coat Hospital 
 and School, Oxmautown, Dublin, 22251 : (see Oxmantown.) As to accounts of Hibernian Marine 
 School, Dublin ; report and correspondence thereon, ^wyes 323-325. 
 
 Hill, Charhs, Esq., Laud Agent, Cavan ; Evidence of, 8264-74 : — as to land on Cavan Royal School 
 Estate let to a bailiif, (see under Cavan,) for which he thinks its value at the time was given ; has 
 been much imprcned since and is now worth more, S2G5-9 ; character of the person who offered 
 for it and was rejected, 8l'G9 : as to improvements and tenants' indifl'ereuce; mentions a drain 
 constructed by him out of money given by ihe Clare-street Board, but the tenants would not keep 
 it clean, 82G9-70. 
 
 //(■//, William S., Esq., Agent of the Earl of Roden ; Evidence as to Bryansford School (Co. Down,) 
 and endowment under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 9770 : see Bryansford. 
 
 oare, 'W-ry Rev. Edward Xeivenham, Dean of AVaterford : Evidence of, as to Bishop Toy's School 
 Waterford, 1C457-55G, 1GGS7, 16775-81G, 170G3-S, 17229-32, 17249-58 ; as to Corporation 
 Free School, 267 et seq. 
 
 CORPORATION' FREE SCHOOL, WATERFORD. 
 
 High character of the school ; Imt would still be greatly improved by increased endowment and 
 exhibitions, and by removal to a more suitable locality, a'little out of the town, 278-85. 
 
 Importance of exhibitions and disadvantage from want of them, 278 ; very larsrc endowments 
 not desirable ; moderately increased endowment required, 278, 285. Dr. Dowues' Exhibition 
 endowment ; trustees and mode of nominating to it, 292-8. 
 
 Would have Roman Catholic usher, to give confidence to Roman Catholics, though otherwi.se 
 unnecessary, there being no impediment to them or interference with their religion, ia the school 
 2SG. 
 Vol. II. ST
 
 502 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, C0]VOJISSI0N. 
 
 IToare^ Very Kev. Dean, Waterford, continued. 
 
 BISnOP pot's BLUE BOYS SCHOOL, WATERFORD. 
 
 Account of foundation and cliange to a boarding school, management and condition ; suggesled 
 improvements in management, accounts, leases, income and expenditure, Ac, 10531-4, 16537-8, 
 16457-70, 16540-6. 
 
 Objection to boarding scliool system for cliildren of linrablcv classes, 16470-2 : grounds of ob- 
 jection, 10491-7, 16514-20, 10529, 17229 : a day school would be more in accordance with inten- 
 tions of founder, 17329. 
 
 Apprenticing, its extent and management, 16470, 16473-81, 164S5-6, 17229. 
 
 Inspection of school and examination of boys by the bishop and dean, clerg3'man and catechist, 
 frequently, in each week ; annual examinations, but no prizes, 16473, 16483-4, 16487-90, 16536. 
 
 Recreation and amusement of the boys not sufficient ; want of ball-alley and cricket-ground, 
 16498-513, 16521. 
 
 Suggestions for better government of the institution ; larger number of trustees, with some of the 
 ]aity; at present only the bishop and dean; inconvenience in case of difference, and dean virtually 
 no voice : improvements required, for which a larger local governing body is desirable, in regard to 
 books and maps, industrial employment, recreations, corporal punishment, 16775-85. Want of 
 a resident manager or general superintendent, with wife for matron, having authority over the 
 waster, housekeeper, and whole establishment, subject only to the trustees, 16786, 17251-6 ; and 
 want of local governing body, 17257. 
 
 As funds are so ample, thinks there should be a classical and commercial day school, with good 
 apprentice fees, and clothing to a certain extent, but not in uniform, 17229. 
 
 See further, as to the particular schools, under Waterford. 
 
 Jlodder, II. F. Moore, Eallincollig ; letter from, in regard to Dr. Ilodgens, Master of Midlcton 
 Endowe<l School, Co. Cork, 17642 : (see Midletoii.) 
 
 Ilodgens, Rev. Edward P. d.d.. Head Master of Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork ; correspondence 
 with Mr. Allin in 1853-4, before the visitation in latter year, 17630-40, 1S076 ; evidence as 
 to state and management of school, and as to complaints of irregularities, &c., 1S343 et seq., 19049 
 et seq. — See under Midldoii. 
 
 Hodson, Bishop ; Endowment by, for a Grammar Scliool at Elphin, Co. Roscomnioii ; sec Elphin. 
 
 Hogan, Mr. Mic/iael C, Master of school in Pigott's-lano, Longhrea, Co. Galway. Letter from ; one- 
 fourth of building which forms endowment of the school, illegally held possession of by a dis- 
 missed sexton of church, 5405 : (see Loughrea.) 
 
 Hogg, Rev. John, Head master of diocesan school, Limerick : Evidence of, as to erection and repairs 
 of the school, its state and management, and as to representations respecting same ; 2433, 2582, 
 2632-3, 2080-1, 2827-30 ; cours'e of instruction ; success of pupils in after-life ; causes of falling 
 off of the school, and of small number of free pupils, 2443 et seq., 2680-1, 2827 et seq. 
 
 Inspection of school, none; half-yearly and other examinations, 2572-3 : Ex.amiuation of boys 
 in the school not satisf ictory for their length of lime in it, 2519-44. 
 
 State of health of the master, as bearing on his efficiency in conducting the school, 2564-71. 
 Communications produced by him as to management of school, 2574-82. 
 
 Other schools, and educational wantsof Limerick, 25 11-78, 2548-50. — (Seefurther,underiiHjerici-.) 
 
 Ilollymount, Co. Mayo : — Endowment by Mrs. Ladovize, supposed to be for education, C0S5-8. 
 Inquiries by Rev. W. E. Stoney, Rector of Castlehar, respecting the same, 0084, 0086. 
 
 Holywell, Co. Roscommon : 
 
 Commissioners of Education Inquiry, 1825, reported a grant or endowment under Lord Lieute- 
 nant's Fuud for a school at, in consideration of more than an acre of land in perpetuity, and erection 
 of schoolhouse, 7454. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Fitzgerald, Curate of Roscommon : — Xo such school now or for twenty 
 years past or so ; was on proj)crty of late Rector of Roscommon, lately sold in Incumbered Estates 
 Court ; Jiouso existing and used as a goods-house, in priv;ite hands ; endowment lapsed and land 
 l>robably irrecoverable, 7455-9. 
 
 Iloman, Travers, Esq., M.D., Medical Practitioner in Sligo for the last seventeen years : — Evidence as 
 to general state of education and want of adequate provision for same in Sligo, 6090, 6711. 
 
 Want, as long as he recollects, of a good school, the general opinion, 6707 ; particularly as 
 regards instruction in modern languages, 0095-9. Relieves there is a want of classical education, 
 0700 ; and also in matters of science, 0702. 
 
 Thinks an endowment of .£100 to ,£150 a-year to a master, to enable master to have a pioper 
 as-dstant, would bo of great advantage to the town an<l neighbourhood, aii<l that there would be 
 fii.xty pupils who would pay from .£4 to .£8 a-ycar, 6095: — (sec Sligo.) 
 Hone, Addi'^on, Esq , Registrar of King Chas. II. 's School, or Blue Coat Hospital, at Oxmantown, 
 Dublin :— Evi.lence of, 21907-22317, 22353-40.3, 22508-14, 22546, 32550. 
 
 No registry of anything connected with the pupils; of their after-life, or success or otherwise, 
 22072-5. 
 
 Nature of education; to qualify them for clerkships and mercantile avocations; course of 
 instruction ,22076-84. 
 
 Con,stitution mode of appointment, and attendance of Board of Governors of the institution, 
 21910-3, 21910-25. Maiuiging Committco, 21926-34 ; contracts, 21934, 21993-5. 
 
 Bye-laws and regulations; ohl regulations, of no use now, 21939-41. 
 
 Income, Hources, and amounts, 21914-8. Mode of conducting liuancial business; defective state 
 and system of accounts, and annual audit, 21964-79, 22085-22235-53, Irregularity of accounts 
 and audit; some not audited, 22508-14.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 503 
 
 Hone, Addison, E.ifj. — coutimicil. 
 
 Leases, muniments a:iil iloDoi's; no list of lease.-", 2U)3.')-S, 21912. Lamls and rental; arrears, 
 (fee, 22309-25. Property of institution lapsed; irregularity ol' management; particulars of arrears 
 and property lost, 22.'5.')3 82. Surveys; none for twenty -three years, 22307-71. Irregular 
 payments of rents or renewal fines, and consequent loss to in.stitution, 22383-403. 
 
 Measures in 1S42 for improving management of the institution, and its fund.s, and augmenting 
 the number of pu]iils; reuts, (fee., 222-54-82. Necessity of meastircs of economical reform and 
 retrenchment, 22283-97, 21984 92, 2199G-8, 22000 pI seq. 
 
 Admi.s.sion of boys; its conditious and limitation; privileges to sous and grandsons of freemen; 
 question as to construction of Charter, 22032-45. Proposition to throw open admissions to Pro- 
 testant children generally, rejected, 2204G-54. 
 
 Erasmus Smith boys in institution, twenty-seven; formerly thirty, 2200G, 22014, 22024; 
 number authorized by Act, not exceeding twenty, 2202.J-G; cost, i;22 or .£23 per bead, and pay- 
 ment for same by Erasmus Smith Board from £9 to £11 a head, 22014-23. Formerly payments 
 by Erasmus Smith Board irregular and in arrcar, 22330-3. 
 
 Presentation of ten boys by Bishop of Meath, 22027 ; of two by Rector of St. Werburgh's, 22030 ; 
 Guild of St. Anne's no longer presijnts, 22028-9. 
 
 Boys in institution five years ; gratuity of £5 on leaving regarded as an apprentice fee, 2203G, 
 220G2-3. Inadequacy as an apprentice fee; no regulation.s as to apjircnticing ; many of the boys 
 go to sea ; Governors take no part in ajiprcnticing, 220G4-71. 
 
 See further, under Oxmantomi. 
 
 Horgan, Mr. John, master of Erasmus Smith School at Innisbannon, Co. Cork: — Evidence of, 1G75 
 et seq. — (See under Innishannon.) 
 
 Ilosford, ]\Ir. Juscph, ma.'ster of the Leamy School, Limerick : — Evidence of, 3GCG et seq. See under 
 Limerick. 
 
 Hours for school instruction, recreation, work, itc. ; (see vnder tlte respective schools). 
 
 Scluxd hours ten to three ; objections to ; incapability of boys of sustaining attention so long 
 ■without becoming jaded ; bad system ; Clonmel, Canavan, 980-3. 
 
 School hours ten to two ; nootber school giving fourbour.s' instruction only ; jVavati, Legg, 12958-67. 
 Houses for schools ; see Buildinr/s. 
 
 Howard, Hon. and Rev. Francis, Vicar of Swords, Co. Dublin, and one of the Governors of Swords 
 Borough School ; Evidence and Letter of, as to Dean ScurdeviUe's charitv, or Scardeville School, 
 14943-G, 149S5-S : as to Ilewitson lands, 15550-2 : (sec further, under iSiooids, Dean Scardeville 
 and Archdeacon Hewitson's endowments.) 
 
 As to Economy Fund, and objects to which the fund is applied ; no portion for education, 
 14945-8, 14952; landed property ; not aware bow parish became possessed of it ; Irish Act of 
 Parliament under which administered, 14949-58, 15547-9 : particulars of the Economy lands, 
 lettings, cfec, 15553-GO : (see further, under Swoi-ds.) 
 
 As to Swords Borough School; visitation of school : omploymout of girls in needlework b\' 
 
 schoolmistress for her own profit ; memorials and complaints by Roman Catholics of conduct of 
 
 the school and religious instruction in it; rather from the Catholic clergy than the parents; 
 
 Punishments in the school, &c., 14850 ci seq. : (see under Swords, Borough School.) 
 
 Hughes, Henri/ Geo., Esq., (i.e., a Commissioner; Synodical Address of Council of Thurles, 1850, 
 
 handed in hy, page 380; with three Rescripts on Queen's Colleges, 1847-50, joff^ps 388-9. 
 Hughis. Rev. James, r.c.c. ; Evidence of, at Euniskillen, Co. Fermanagh, as to General State of 
 Education and want of adequate provision for same in locality, 12219 et seq. 
 
 Utter want of provision for respectable education for Catholics in the neighbourhood ; Enniskillen 
 Royal School a closed school to them, being considered an exclusively Protestant school, 12219 ; 
 but never heard of any interference in that school with the religion of the Roman Catholic pupils : 
 confidence in present master; nothing but to his credit, 12219, 12225. 
 
 Children sent at enormous expense to distant parts of Ireland to be educated, 12219 ; want of a 
 separate school for Roman Catholics, and propositions made for the purpose ; with £500 a-year at 
 their disposal the Catholic Clergy of the town would undertake to educate 500 children as well as 
 they are educated at Enniskillen Roy.al School or any other in Ireland, 12219-24. 
 
 Objects to a mixed school, with Roman Catholic master for Roman Catholics, 12224-C. 
 
 Hughe.", John, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary ; Evidence of, as to 
 General State of Education and want of adequate provision for same in locality : want of a good 
 commercial school at Clonmel, which he thinks would be well supported ; grounds of his belief, 
 and nature of instruction required, 1110-39 : as to a classical and commercial school, 1117-8. 
 
 Humphreys, Daniel, Esq., a farmer ; Evidence of, as to conduct of boys at Midleton Endowed School, 
 Co. Cork, (see Midleton,) 18022 et seq. 
 
 Hunt, Edmond L., Esq., Land Agent for Erasmus Smith Western Estates, Galway : Evidence of; 
 accounts for last few years not produced, but has the present rental of what he is about to receive, 
 5922. His only objection to hand it in is lest he should not bo acting rightly towards the Board 
 of Governors in giving their account ; but hands it in on being informed of the Commissioners' 
 powers and desire, 5922-33. 
 
 Particulars of estates, rental, gross and net income, for 1855, and average for nineteen previous 
 years, 1835-1854 ; renewal fines, arrears and amounts struck off', and other particulars of the 
 Western Estates, 5934-72. 
 
 Value of the estates considerably increased by large sums laid out by tenants in building and other- 
 wise, 5973. Lauds held not on building lease.';, "but on ''faith leases," that will not be disturbed, 5974. 
 
 Re-valuation of property; inequalities letween rent and valuation, 5975-8. Twenty-one 
 years' leases, and principle of renewal ; would not increase rent on account of house built bv tenant, 
 Vol. II. 3X2
 
 504 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 but would for otlier causes increasing the value of hiw\ iu locality, such as establisliment of a 
 Packet Station ; Governors have not increased rent on account of inii^rovement from a tenant having 
 laid out a large sum of money, 5974, oOTU-SL 
 Hyndman, John E., Esq., one of the Governors of King Clias. II.'s School or Blue Coat Hospital, 
 at Oxraantown, Co. Dublin : Evidence of, i'2404-72, 22553, 225G3, 225S0. 
 
 Income and rental; diminution and its causes,' 22404-72. Sale of stock improper and illegal, 
 and voted against it, 22533. As to eniplovmont of an accountant to rectify the accounts and 
 prepare them for audit, and make up statement of proj)erty and sources of revenue, 22410-4. 
 
 Disproportionate cost of educating boys in the institution, and capability of admitting a greater 
 number, 22415-7. As to admission of day scholars and opening the school more generally, 22418. 
 
 Nature of education afforded, and objects for which dcsignoil ; mercantile and seafaring life, Ac, 
 22419-21 : classics rejected from want of means, 22421 : desirableness of modern lan^'unges for 
 commercial e<lucation, and of classics ; practical imi)ortance of modern languages, 22422-31. Other 
 branches of instruction desirable, 22432. 
 
 Internal arrangements of school : discipline, recreation, health, and cost of medical attendance, 
 ventilation, dietary, clothing, &c., 22432-4, 22438-50, 22461-3. 
 
 Distinctive dress of the boys ; opinions respecting it, 22451-00. Its cost, 22401-3. In favour 
 of present distinctive dress, 22562-3. 
 
 Elopements of boys from the institution, 22435-7. Suggestion for inducing Governors to 
 attend ; breakfast, 22580. — (See Oxmantown.) 
 Incorporated Society in Dublin for promoting English Protestant Schools in Ireland ; General 
 Inquiry in Dublin as to management of schools and endowments under, 19707 et seq., 20314 et 
 seq., 20702 H seq., 21473 et seq., 23207 et seq. 
 
 Thomas B. Stoney,^s(\., High Sheriff. Co. Tipperary, holding ])roperty under the Society: — 
 Communication from, with regard to the Society's estate, 664-6 : Evidence of, respecting the 
 Incorporated Society, 19707-42. 
 
 Complains of the illibcrality of the Society as landlords and as a Board, 1970S ; refused to give 
 assistance to a school established by him on the property, 19709-13; and do not assist any school 
 or public object on their property, 19713 : but are profligate of the money at their disposal, and 
 their establishment very expensive, 19713, 19737-42. Complaints particularized, 19715-28. — 
 See Mr. ArdiWs evidence, heloio. 
 
 No other school on their estates in his neighbourhoo<l ; and if it were not for his school, the 
 children on the property would be left entirely without instruction : parts of the property too 
 distant for children to have the advantage of his school, 19725-32. 
 
 Nature of tenure of estate under the Society: lease for three lives renewable for over; complains 
 of treatment on applying for renewal, 19733-6. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill, Secretary, 20318 et seq., 20702 et seq , 20730-2, 20834 et seq., 
 23232 et seq., 23458-61. Communications from, relative to evidence of himself and other witnesses, 
 as to Incorporated Society and their schools, 23210. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Ardill in contradiction of the charges brought by Mr. Stoncy (supra) against 
 the Society, of wantonness in tiie expenditure of the money, and neglect of its duty as an educa- 
 tional Society and as landlords, 20630-51. 
 
 As to general management of the Society : Acts or Charters under which it is constituted, 20326- 
 31. Meetings, constitution of Committees, officers, itc, and management of Society, 20320-5, 
 20332-51, 20528-35, 20702-8,20834-7 : defectiveattendanceofCoiiunittee of Fifteen, 23362-91 : 
 return of attendances, 20834-7. 
 
 Duties of tlic Secretary, 20319. Salary and remuneration of ofhcers, 20341-7. 
 
 Accounts, 20325, 20S52 et seq.: how kept ; defective and irregular system of accounts, 20352-4: — 
 No ledger, 20354 :— No separate Government stock account, 203'76, 20383, 20399, 20454-62, 
 20403-0 : No account with the agent of the Society, 20424 : No account kept for the Society, and 
 consequent difficulties, 20428-43, 20439-42: No account of assets and liabilities, 20480. Annual 
 balance sheets of the accounts placed before the Committee, but not audited, 20450, 20477. 
 Mode and description of audit by Committee, 20412-2.3, 20432, __20443-53, 20163. Further 
 details as to ilefective state ami management of accounts, 20407-513. Thinks there could 
 be a bettor .system of accounts, and will suggest to the Society the necessity of keejung a ledger, 
 with separate accounts, 2051 1-12. 
 
 Expenditure of Society; establishment, rent, &c. ; evidence of j\lr. Ardill as to alleged oxtrava- 
 "ance, and out-goings for management and oHice, 20514-27. Functions of Committee of Fifteen, 
 and Committee of Account, in regard to expenditure and audit 20528-9. 
 
 Estates in fifteen or sixteen counties, 20340. 
 
 Estate agent, Mr. Pidgcon's appointment, remuneration, and iiension or annuity ; his iiualilica- 
 tions and remuneration, as compared with previous agent, 20337-^0, 20342-51, 20553-93. 
 
 Examination and insjicction of schools ; by visitors, and an annu;il dejiutation : honorary visitors, 
 acting "I'atuitously, their travelling expenses only being i)aid, 2(i530-47. Selection for scholarships 
 by visitors; as to cilici(Micy of sclioolniastcrs ami mistresses, 211548-5-1. ]!c[)orts of deputation in 
 regard to schools in Co. Tipjierary, referred to in Mr. Stoney's coniiilaint, 20630-8. 
 
 Mode of regulating expenses in bearding schools or in-litutlons under the Society, 20594-028, 
 23334-8. 
 
 Foundation boarders are jilaced in the schools in consequence of their having been successful at 
 competitive examinations : dates the welfare of the Society from the time it reliii(|uisliod all patron- 
 age, 20600. Regulations and mode in whicli the examlna!i<ins arc comlucted, 20602-3; and 
 J articulars as to after-life of the children, 20601-610. 
 
 Paying boarders : the object of the Society is to fill up the vacuum between the hij;her and tiio
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 505 
 
 Incoiyorated Soclelij, Mr. AnliU's Evidence — coiitimicil. 
 
 lower classes of society, by affording good education to respectable classes at small cost, 20598. 
 Cpinion in favour of boarding schools in preference to day schools for middle classes, 20G2G-8. 
 
 As to objection to boarding schools for humbler classes, and how obviated, 23347-51. 
 
 Account of the foundation and objects of the Society; its Charter and Charter schools, 23232 
 et seq., 2'ii^Q et seq. Terms of Charter as to branches of instruction; Religion, and Scriptural 
 instruction, husbandry and industrial training, and proceedings of the Society thereon, 23l'34-5 
 H seq., '2'i'J.~ ^ cl scq. Government grants formerly ; their withdrawal and consequent clianges in 
 system and in nature and extent of operations of tljo Society, 23232-3 el seq.: rculations as to 
 exclusion of boys from other public schools, &c., 2325S-G0 el seq. 
 
 Restrictions as to admission of Roman Catholics : oidy one Koman Catholic boy in any of their 
 boarding schools 23238-40 ; numbers in day schools, 23247-52. fast an<l present reguhitions as 
 to the admission of Koman Catholics, 23234, 23238-44. As to limitation of admission to jiupils 
 from schools in which the Scrijitures arc read, 20G14-24. 
 
 Apprenticeship iliscontinncd in all the Society's schools : former [)ractice in rcanl to aiiiirenlicinf 
 23292-7. ^ o e. 
 
 Marriage portions formerly given to girls from the Society's schools ; discontinued, 23298. 
 
 Nurseries or schools for infant children discontinued ; none admitted to schools under 11 years of 
 age for boys, 10 for girls, 23299-301, 23303. 
 
 A.sylums for charter school girls when out of employment, discontinued, 23302-3. Other 
 changes, 23304-5. 
 
 Bisho)) of Ossory, Dr. Pococke's foundation for a weaving school near Kilkenny, for Roman 
 Catholic boys only, to be educated as Protestants; trusts not carried out, 23253-8, 232G4-G el seq. 
 Cclbridge school, Connolly foundation, 20G01. 
 
 Farra Institution, Co. Westmeatli, 23259 : no longer an agricultural school ; did not succeed as 
 such, 2327G-S9. 
 
 Primrose Grange, Sligo ; agricultural school, 23275-0, 23290-2. 
 
 Kevin-street school, Lublin, for girls ; suppressed, 23310, 23398 ; but charges in respect of it, for 
 invalid girls, as annuitants, and for rent, 23399-40G. 
 
 Santry Training School, 20598-9, 20G03-7 : the chief feature of the Incorporated Society's 
 system, and the institution for which all their other arrangements are preparatory, 23307 : its object 
 to give an education to enable boys to take situations as clerks, Ac, but especially as sehoohnasters, 
 23307 : receive a first-class education in science, and eligible for any appointment for which a 
 first-class English education would qualify thom, 23327. Account of the school, its cost and 
 management, ]iayments by boarders, course of instruction, itc, 2059S-9, 20G03-13, 23311 tt seq. 
 
 Monitors or pupil-teachers, in Santry school, 23339-43. 
 
 Great demand for schoolmasters and niistrecscs, from the Society's training schools, 23344-7. 
 
 Local committees ; as to their value in regard to supervision of schools, and as to objections 
 which have been made to such bodies under a central authority ; local coinmittecs for manage- 
 ment of schools under the Society, generally giveu up, 23352-G. 
 
 Catechists; visitation and superintendence by them, their reports and returns, 23357-01, 23394. 
 
 As to appointment of p.aid inspectors of the Society's schools, 23394-5. 
 
 Pensions and annuities chargeable to the Society; annuities in respect of Kevin-sfreet school 
 })remises, 23400-0, 33113. Annuities, and assignment of them to other parties ; one bought up by 
 the Society, 23407-20. Pension or annuity to Mr. Pidgeon at the same time that he receives a 
 salary from the Society, as agent, 20553-93, 23419. Scale of pensions to old and infirm .school- 
 masters, mistresses, ushers, 20551-3. Minute of Society as to annuities, and requirement of certi- 
 ficates or testimonials from time to time as to conduct of annuitant.?, 23430-5, 23458. 
 
 Visitation and inspection of schools ; affording opportunity of inquiring into complaints of mis- 
 conduct of masters, &c., 23421-2. 
 
 Punishments ; corporal punishment formerly severe ; now discontinued and not usually practised; 
 but no regulation on the subject, 23423-9. 
 
 Living of Athlone in patronage of the Society, who also pay half the salary- of the curate, 23459- 
 60. 
 
 Evidence (if Hv. E. S. Ahhotl. formerly a ^Icmber and Auditor of the Incorporated Societj', as to 
 the management of the affairs of the Society, 21473-520. 
 
 As auditor, struck ofl' certain items charged by the agent, Mr. Pi<lgeon, one of which, £20 a-year, 
 has, he believes, since been allowed in other shape, 21478. Letter of resignation in 1833, and 
 grounds of resignation : dissatisfaction with general management of the Society, and with the audit 
 of accounts ; objections to presentation of plate to a clergyman out of funds of Soeietv, 21481, 
 21484, 21505, 21510. Defective system of accounts, and unsatisfactory mode of audit, 21480-7 
 et seq. 
 
 Necessit}' for improvement in general management of the Society, and in system of inspection of 
 schools, 21517-9. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John W. Sudibs, f.t.c.d., Incor]ioratcd Society, a member of Committee of 
 Fifteen, .and of Committee of Accounts, 20052-98, 20709-833, 21U20-74, 23221, 23230. 
 
 Accounts of the Society and audit: nature of audit stated, 20055-0, 20695-7. 
 
 Accounts of the Society: defective manner in which they are kept, 20709 et seq. lias been 
 uiiditor for five or si.x years, 20755. Never audited the ca])ital, 20756. Only audited the expenditure, 
 20758. Necessity for amendment in the accounts, which arc not at present kept according to any 
 acknowledged system of bookkeeping, 20759-01. Provisions of Charter, as to accounts of capital 
 and income, distinguishing them, 20740 : acccunts not in accordance with Charter, 20701-3, 21060.
 
 506 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Incorporated Society, Jlr. Stubb's Evidence, — continued. 
 
 No account distintjuisliinff income from capital, 210C1-5. Ko Banlv account, except pass-book, 
 210GG. ^ . 
 
 Xo account with the agent, 210GS-9. 
 
 Ko account lialanced, 21070-2. 
 
 l\o audit of the funded property of the Society, and though it anKJunts to upwards of .£'100,000 
 no separate account of it kept, 20763, 21073-4. 
 
 Further details as to the accounts, and summary of defects in them and in audit, 207C5 et seq., 
 21020 et seq. Letter and evidence in reference to certain items of expenditure and nature of 
 audit, and as to Mr. Abbott's observations (supra,) thereon, 2321.5, 23221. 
 
 Santry Training School ; nature of instruction and examination of the pupils, 20G58-9, 20679- 
 81. Exhibitions, 20680-1. Suggestioiis for further improvenient, and advancement of boys in the 
 liigher branches of science, and for attendance at lectures in natural and experimental sciences, 
 2d'660-2. 
 
 Visitation and examinations at Santry, 20668-71. 
 
 Annual visitation.s of schools, and mode of conducting them ; advantages from them very great, 
 20663-4,20673-8; but would have competent paid Inspectors, acting under a governing body, 
 who should themselves also visit, inspect, and examine, from time to time, 20663-6. Inspection 
 should be when not expected by the master, 20667. 
 
 School Libraries, and how provided, 20682-4. 
 
 Objections to regulation excluding children wlio had not been taught in schools in which the 
 Scriptures are read by all, 20686-92. 
 
 Uvideijce of WiUiam Pidf/eon, Esq., Land Agent to the Incorporated Society, 20699-701, 20838- 
 21019, 2107-5-7, 23437-57. Communications from, respecting his own and other evidence, 23209. 
 
 His appointment and duties ; management of the estates ; collection of rents, and amounts 
 thereof; produces accounts, which are audited, 20699-701, 20838-51. 
 
 Particulars of management of the estates detailed : subletting and middlemen got rid of; 
 increased rental; larger holdings, and improvements, 20849-20880: periods of collection of 
 rents, arrears, 20911-40. 
 
 Accounts with the Society once a-year, 20941 ; particulars of estates and accounts, rental, 
 receipts, and arrears, 20941 et seq. ; defective accounts of holdings, no books showing the quan- 
 tities held by tenants, 20958 et seq., 21000. Differences between old and new maps, 21012-9. 
 
 No agricultural or tenantry schools established by the Society on any of their properties ; but 
 the Society sometimes afl'ords aid towards estalilishment of schools on the estates, 20881-910. 
 
 Statement and evidence in contradiction of statement of Mr. Abbott (supra,) as to certain pay- 
 ments and allowances alleged to have been made to Mr. Pidgeon, 23209, 23222-28. 
 
 Explanation as to the purchase by him of an annuity granted by the Society to another person, 
 and other assignments of pensions, 23437-57. 
 
 Schools of Incorporated Society : 
 
 Athlone ; Piauelagh boys school, 7007 et seq. 
 
 Chjnmcl, Co. Tipperary, 927 etseq. 
 
 D!nid:;lk,Co. Louth, 12254 etseq., 12372 et seq. 
 
 Farra Institution, Co. Wcstmeath, 995-1005, 13439 et seq. 
 
 Kilkenny, Weaving School, under Bishoji Pocockc's Bequest, 1639, 7008. 
 
 Primrose Grange, Co. Sligo, 6801. 
 
 Ranelagh Schools : Athlone, boys, 7007 et seq. 
 
 „ Koscommon, Girls, 7010 et seq., 7103 etseq. 
 
 Roscommon, Ranelagh girls school, 7010, 7103. 
 Santry ; training, classical, and commercial school, Co. Dublin, 964-9, 978-9, 995-1005, 
 
 13452 et seq., 20598 et seq., 20658 et seq. : (see San'r)/.) 
 Sligo, Primrose Grange School, 6801 et seq. 
 
 And see under names of respective schools or localities. 
 Indust/ial Schools : 
 
 Evidence of Tristram Kennedy, Esq., M.P., as to inadequacy of provision for education of middle 
 classes, and industrial training of lower orders, 14824 et siq. Paper on the Industrial Training 
 Institutions of Belgium, and on the possibility of organizing an analogous system in connection 
 with the NationalSchc.ols of Ireland, by Tristram Kennedy, Esq., m.p., and William K. Sullivan, 
 Esq., Professor of Chemistry to the Museum of Irish Industry, 14823. 
 
 Kilkenny; weaving school, umler Bishop Pocockc's Bequest to Incorporated Society, 1689, 
 7008, 23253-8, 23264 et seq. 
 
 And see under names of respective schools or localities, and under Employment, Agricultural. 
 Indudrial I'rainiiig : — 
 
 In Trades, &c. Gwyn School, Londonderry, Skipton, 11040-56, 11063, and sec Apprenticing. 
 
 Needlework ; Cork, St. Peters, Burke, 2234-40. Swords, and abuses there ; see Swords. 
 
 Agriculture Want of an industrial agricultural school. Queen's County, Owen, 5172-83; and 
 
 see other wiines!'es,i>axsim. 
 
 Absonco and desirableness of Industrial Training.— yl//(/o«», Ranelagh, M'Namara, 7192-3. 
 Waterfwd, Fay School, 16595-622. 
 
 Provision for, in endowment of scliools, not carried into effect ; sec under Swords; Kill;enny, Pococlce 
 Institution, &c. 
 
 And see under names of schools or localities.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 507 
 
 Infant Schools or Nurseries ; see Nurseries. 
 
 Inn'shannon, Co. Cork ; Erasmus Smith School : — 
 
 Eviilcncc of Mr. John Ilorgan, Jlastcr : — Sclioolhouso huilt by Mr. Thomas Frewcii, no land, a 
 suitalilc huilding, 1G70-81. A hoys school ; number of j)Ui)ils avcra^'os thirty-ono for throe years, 
 in li^b'i, thirty-eight, in 1854, forty, 1G77. Course of education, an English school ; witii Scriptures, 
 history, arithmetic, mensuration, Euclid, algebra, 1G82, 1G85. Salary from Erasmus Smith Board, 
 and last year a gratuity from Tucorporatcd Society : no other remuneration, 1686-7. Insiiection 
 by Secretary of Era^nius Smith lj<iard, and examination of candidates for Kilkenny College or 
 Pocockc Institution in Kilkenny, 1688-90. 
 
 Iitspcclion and visitation of Schools : — 
 
 Absence and desirableness of, — Anixir/lt Eoi/al iS'(7/oo?, Guillcnuvrd, 9390-1. Ba/Zi/roan, Lyon, 
 4779,4843. Bnixiijlur, Eell, 5288-9, 5347-62, 5395; Monck, 5278. Cavan, Moore, 7871-2. 
 Belfast Acadciiii/. Bryce, 10394-5. Mldlcton, sec Midltton. Cork Dioc-san Hchoal, O'Brien, 1197-9, 
 1237. /^ow^^^u^vV/.-, llarrell, 9921, 9963, 10002-19, 10032-8 ; Tcer, 10159. Dmylwdn, ^hvisv, 
 12590-61 1 ; Cairnes, 1 2730-3. Monaghan Diocesan School, Russell, 9208-17. Brocjhtda Grammar 
 School, Ij'.ivy, 12750-1. Elphin iJiocesan SchoiJ, F]yn\], 7351-2, 7371. Ennis Grammar School, 
 King, 3898-901, 3954, 39G7. Ennhlilhn Royal' School, GYQ\\&m, il99G-7, 1200G-8. Galwoy 
 English School, Rcid, 5760, 5771, 5784, 5794, 5818. Galwuy Grammar School, Ilallowell, 20193-2, 
 20264. Kilkenny Grammar School, Browne, 96-104, 110-120. Limerick lliue Sclicol, Mullin, 
 2926-40 ; Diocesan Schiol, Hogg, 2572-3. Lisnahoe, Gill, 7672-98. Waterford Corporation 
 School, Price, 181-2. Jfidlijigar DiocesanSchool, Geoghegan, 13162-7. Navati, Lcgg, 12887-9, 
 12,908-9. Eapltoe lioyal School, Steele, 11271-2, 11343-54 : — and see under names of schools. 
 
 Infrequeucy and irregularity of visital ions, Midleton. Allin, 18302, 1 8307-8 :— (and see Visitation.) 
 
 Local inspection and inspection by Clergy, «fec. ; its advantages ; Cork, St. Nicholas, Dunsconibe, 
 20G9-77; />V. /'(-^v'.s 2171. KiVylass, Stock, 6348-9, 6360. Limerich, Leami/ School, Hoafon], 
 3720-34. 2Muf. Kyle, 10.655-8, 10G67-72. Swords, Kennedy, 14431-41 ; MoHett, 14539-54. 
 Waterford, Foij School, O'Douohoe, 165G3-G1, 1GG77-87 ; Hoare, 1G473, 1G482-90, 16536. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Board, as to inspection of schools under that 
 Board ; exceptional ; no inspectors nor means of paving them ; necessity of inspection and of paid 
 inspectors, 21098, 21190-3 ; suggestions, 21199-207. 
 
 Nature of, under Erasmus Smith's Board: — Gcdivny Enrjlish School, Reid. 5738-45, 5765-70. 
 Jnnishannon, Co. Cork, 1688-90. J//(/^; Co. Londonderry, Kyle, 10G04-9,'l0714. Pallas<jreea, 
 Wurphy, 4403-9, 4451. Evidence of Itev. Hugh Hamilton, Registrar and Inspector of Erasmus 
 Smith Board, as to the nature of inspections of schools under that Board, 2172G et step No inspec- 
 tion of grammar schools, 21820-2, 21768 et seep, 21785-91, 21S45-G2. Evideuce of Mr. Barlow, 
 Chairnuin, A'c. of Erasmus Smith Board, as to inspection and visitation of schools under that Board, 
 22737-48, 22810, 23025 ; desirableness of inspection of grammar schools, 22743-4. 
 
 Nature of, under Church Education Society : — Clogher, Rollstou, 11G69-72 ; Cork, Green 
 Coat, Searson, 1707-31 ; St. Marfs, Shandon, 4451 ; Byrne, 2264 ; St. Nicholas, 2088. 
 
 Nature of, under Incorporated Society : — Local inspection ; A thlone, Eanelagh. M'Namara, 7 1 72-4. 
 Clonmel, Canavan, 1009-15. Dundall; Turner, 12267-77, 12299. Farrct, Westmeath, Falloon, 
 13455-6, 13526. Evidence of liev. Richard Ardill, Secretary, 20536-47 et se.j., 23421-2. Neces- 
 sity of improvement, Rev. E. S. Abbott, 21517-9 ; Rev. Mr. Siubhs, 20663-7. 
 
 As to appointment of Paid Inspectors : — Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill, Secretary of Incorpo- 
 rated Society, 23394-5. Want of paid Inspectors ; evidence of Rev. John W. Stubbs, f.t.c.d., 
 member of the Incorporated Society, 20GG3-7. 
 
 Nature of, under Irish Society : — FoyleSchejfJ, Londonderry, Escott, 10792, 10821. 
 
 Inspection and visitation of estates, want of; see under Estates, &e. 
 
 Intermediate Schools, OT Schools for Middle Classes. 
 
 Diminution or disappearance of private schools and masters for middle classes, since opening of 
 National Schools ;;5fr^<' 295 (1). /I'lVi, 9642, 9648-61. Bland, iS8l-8. Kenned i/,\i825. Belfast, 
 Allen, 10447, 10454-6; Bruce, 104G0-71 ; M'Cosh, 10516. Successful connietition of Model 
 National Schools, and interference with Grammar Schools or schools for middle classes; Gcdicay, 
 Killeen, 5598-5606 ; Ilallowell, 20226-47; Nosbitt, 23146-56. CTo/Hfte?,Maleomson, 1050-9, 1078-9. 
 
 Absence and want of, Kirk, 9639 et seq. ; Bishop of Down, 10476-9, (see Dawn] ; Dean Warhurton, 
 7313 et seq., (see Warhurton) ; Dixon, page 336, (see Dixon). Belfast, Allen, 10420, 10447 ; Bruce, 
 10420. Gibson, 10423-4 et seq. M'Cosh, 10514-46. Wilson. 10547-8. Porter, 10549-55. 
 Armagh, Kirk, 9642, 9G48-61. Bcdlyroan, Bland, 4881-8. Cork, Bullcn, 2098, 2101-4. May.,, 
 Buchanan, G176-9. Limerick, Burke, 4693, 4723. Mari/horough, Talbot, 5193-5227; Butler, 
 5139-48, 5153, 5145 ; Cassan, 5120-G. Clonmel, Canavan, 1022-4 ; Moore, 902-5, 919-2G : Kennv, 
 1047-9 ; Malcomson, lOGO-1; Grubb, 1083-5 ; Hughes, 1110-39. J/rt//^, Stoncy, 6116-26. Omag'h, 
 Alexander, 11452, 11556 et seep ; Chapman, 11453-4 et seq. Dungamwn, Ringwood, 11821, 11858. 
 Ennii, Cullinan, 4094 et seq. ; Knox, 4128-45. Limerick, Vandeleur, 2682 et seq. ; Kenuedv, 14824 
 et seq.; Franklin, 4612-50; O'She.a, 2397-2405, 2412; Murray, 4149 e« seq.; Kevington, 4220 
 et seq.; Burke, 4693-4723. ZoHf/o«(/r;-ry, Ferguson, 11005-6 et seq. Galtvai/, Nesbitt, 23134, 
 23157 ; Blakeney, 6024-5. Monaghan, Itussell, 9218-22. Sligo, Kidd, 6579-80; Wynne, 6577. 
 Dablin, Murray, 23487-517 ; Thom,' 23522 et seq. ; Webb, 23463 et seq. Midline/ar, Warner. 13142 ; 
 Woodward, 13259-72,13291-305. ir«/(';/o;-(/, Dean Hoare, 17229. inV»."«', Byrne, 13738-9; 
 Brownrigg, 13691-9, 13706-23; Maingay, 13767-76; Morton, 13787-8. Sligo, Clarke, 6757, 
 6763-4. Mayo, Courv. 6250. Carrick-on-Shannon, Cox, 6983. Leitrim, Dawson, 6938 ; Percy, 
 6956-61. ,sVyo, Homan, 6695-9, G700-2 ; O'Connor, 6713,6727-38. Mayo, M'Greal, 6155-72. 
 Carrick on-Shannon, Percy, 6956-G9G1. Longford, Striteh, 7700-9. Sligo, Tucker, 6740-1. 
 
 Papers submitted to the Lord Lieutenant by a deputation, in 1854, and laid before the Commis- 
 sioners, as to the want of adei|uate provision for Intermediate Education, with susgestions on the 
 subject, page 295 (I.), page 296 (II.)
 
 508 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Into-niediafe .S'<7((joZs— continiiod. 
 
 Inipracticaliility of cstubli.sliing tlic description of seliools required -witliout f-oiiic aid l)y Eiidow- 
 lucnt, and nature of Endowment required: Dixon, jmge 330. Kruwdi/, 14825. Mayyljurumjli, 
 Talbot, 521i-2-4. Cmaqh, Alexander, 11560, 11013-32. IMfust, Bruce, 10407-!>, 10742-3; 
 M'Cosli, 10535-42; ^Vifson, 10547. ^Saus, Hayes, 13971-5; lliekey, 139'J0-l40O0 ; Kellett, 
 14005-10. tH'mo, Honian, 0095 ; Carrkk-on-khaiuwn, Percy, 0950-7, 0902. Jlaijo, Buchanan, 
 0208-19; M-Greal, 0258-04, 6-290-7; Stonev, 6110-25. Carrichon- Shannon, Percy, 6950-7, 
 6962, 6963, 6991. Castkbar, Stoney, 6288-9, 6298-304. 
 
 And sec under Names of Witnesses and Localities, Education, &c. 
 
 Ireland, Willi'im, Esq., Pninisna ; Evidence of, as to endowment for a scIjooI at Jamestown, Co. 
 Leitrim (sec Jamestown), 6812-32. 
 
 Ii-ish Society : endowments for education by, in Co. Londonderry ; see under Londonderry, Foyle 
 College or Derry Diocesan School, &c., 10751, 10763. 
 
 Irving, Edward, Blue Coat School Boy and Choir Boy, Limerick: Evidence of, 3139 e/; sfj. ; (see 
 under Limerick.) 
 
 Irwin, Rev. Charles King, rector of Maghcrafelt, Co. Londonderry, Visitor and Manager of Rainey 
 School, MaL;herafclt : Evidence of, as to that school, and endowment by Rev. Tliomas Vesey, for 
 building schools at Magherafeltaud Castledawson, Co. Londonderry, 10559 (r< .se^., 10577, 10579 et seq. ' 
 
 Castledawson school does not exist at all ; could not raise funds enongh ; Mr. Vesey "s bequest 
 lies in Northern Bank, to be employed at a future time, if sutiicieut can be raised in addition, 
 ■10566-7. 
 
 Rev. Thomas Ve.sey's will for building a school at Maghcrafelt, 10558 ; not an endowment ; 
 particulars of gift made by Rev. Thomas Vesey during bis lifetime and contribution by Sir Robert 
 Bateson ; school in operation, 10559-10505. As to land, 10509-72. 
 
 Maghcrafelt school, endov.ed by Hugh Raine}-, Esq. : — Letter from, 10577 : Evidence, 10579- 
 92. Will and Act, 10579 ; terms read, 10583-4, 10591. No mulver-sation, and all that is required 
 by the will is done, 10582. Evidence of Mr. Irwin as to complaints of Mrs. tjaussen, who docs not 
 attend, 10573, 105»0, 10582 : (sec under Magherafdt). 
 Iveragh barony, Co. Kerry ; endowment for a Roman Catholic School in, 2322 (see under Cakerciveen). 
 Jachcn, Richard, Esq., Boys and Girls School, Slonagban, endowed by ; see Monaghan. 
 Jameson, Mr. Tluis. : Evidence as to Killaloan schools, Co. Tipperary (see Kilhiloav), COS et seq., 082 
 et seq. 
 
 Jamestoim, in parish of Killogard or Kiltogbart, Co. Leitrim : 
 
 Information from HepoHs of previous Inquiries A school formerly at Jamestown, endowed by 
 
 Earlof Mountrath with lands in parish of Cloonc, a good schoolhouse having also been erected by 
 him : eighty scholars in 1812, of whom forty free, boys and girls, children of poor tenants on his 
 estate: in 1821, 121 scholars; annual income from endowment stated at io4, and later at £00, 
 besides pay from those day scholars who were not free ; no deed of endowment forthcoming ; school 
 discontinued and sold, for" want of such deed ; land not settled by any legal conveyance, 6604. 
 
 Present Inqninj. — >;carch in Registry Office, Dublin; no trace of endowment, 0839. 
 
 Rev. William Alexander Percy, Rector of Kiltoghert; Letter from, 0805 : Evidence of, 6805-11 : — 
 remembers the school, a free school for public benefit, with some paying scholars ; premises sold ; now 
 the Roman Catholic chaj)el, and the master's house given to parish priest, and tenanted since school 
 was given up, 0805-8. 
 
 Evidence of William Ir. land, Esq., Drumsna, 0812-02 :— Knew the s<diooln. aster who taught 
 at the Jamcs'town School until the hands were jMirchased by the late Mr. O'Beirne, to whom they 
 were sold, b}', he believes, the Earl of Mountrath, between 1830 and 1837, when .school was 
 discontinued, 0813-9. Master's salary derived from lands in Parish of Cloonc, 6823. 
 
 Evidence of John Dnclcworth, Esq., Mountnorris, Co. Boscomninn, 6833-8. — Heard that Sir 
 Charles Coote became enfitle<l to the jiroperty after Lord Mouutrath's death, and about 1830 efiected 
 an exchange with Mr. O'Beirne, or a relative of his, who had lands in Queen's Co.; late 
 master's house let to a private individual, 0834-0. 
 Jocehjn, Hon. Augustus, member of the Local Committee of Incor])orated Society's School, Dundalk, 
 Co. Louth : — Committee have on .several occasions made recommendations to the Society as to 
 deficiencies in school conveniences and other matters, which have not been attended to by the 
 Society, and no notice taken ; Committee of no use, their power so circumscribed, and so little atten- 
 tion by the Board in Dublin, and he for one intends to give up unless a difl'erent course be taken, 
 12399-401. 
 
 Demanil for boys educated at the cstablishn;ent, who have tiirued out reuiaikably well, 12099 : — 
 see under Dundalk. 
 
 Johnstotvn, Saint, Co. Longfonl : 
 
 Information from previous Reports, Sfc: — 7401-3: A school formerly at Saint Johnstown, with 
 an endowment by Sir Walter Raleigh (7401, 7403), or Sir James Ware (7402), of sixty or .seventy 
 acres of land, with .schoolhouse and residence for master, 7401-2 : neglect of Corpcjration in 
 regard to annual re-election of schoolmaster, who between 1770 and 1780 bequeathed the lainis as 
 liis own to his son, wjio retained forcible jiosse.ssion and sold them to an attorney, whose family 
 have continued to enjoy them : referred to Charitable Be(iuests Board in 1812 as a case of embezzle- 
 ment ; 17G1-2. Endowment not since in openiti(m, 1703. 
 
 Rev. Theodore Q. Moore, Vicar of Clonbroncy ; Letter from, calling attention to this as an 
 endowment for a Protustant scliool, 7400: Evidence of, 7464-92. 
 
 Sclioolhouso still in existence, but alienated and no longer a school ; sold and resold several 
 times, and again very recently, 74G8-70. The townland bequeathed still called School-lands, 7469.
 
 INDKX TO EVIDENCK. 509 
 
 Johnslou'n, Sdint, Co. Longford — coiitiiiueil. 
 
 Wrote to the Commissioners of CiiaritaUlc; Bcquostsi, ami previous Rector made cfl'ort.s for recovery 
 of endowment ; but dilliculty in procuring will of Sir James Ware, 7470. 
 
 School in operation till 1792 or '3 ; j)crsons living who can prove their attendance at it, 7471-2. 
 Persons now residing in Clonhroney, who have been at the school nndcr the master referrc<I to, 
 and remember its being in operation, 7 lO^j : abstract of Will of Sir James Ware, Ac, drawn u[> 
 by an old man who had seen it, a]i<l hud also attended the school as a pupil, 7 lG.j-7. 
 
 Further evidence ; suggested that will and docnincnts ma}' be in the (iranard family ; no steps 
 taken by Charitable Betpiests Commissioners, who only acknowledged his letter, 7473-92. 
 
 Jones, Picv. Francis, Rector of Midleton, a trustee of Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork ; evidence 
 in reference to the complaints which jjave been made of the school, the course taken thereon, and 
 his duties as "resident" trustee relatively to the rest of the body, 187'J0 et scq. Visitations, their 
 irregularity, 18825-33. School hours and regulations, 18835-40. Complaints and remonstrauces 
 ■with master thereon, 18844-G, 18SG2, et xcq. (Sec Midklon.) 
 
 Central supervision and inspection or visitation required, 1S854-G0. 
 
 Keariu'i/, Francis, Limerick. — Communication from, complaining of the intention of the founder of the 
 Leaniy Free School, Limerick, not being carried into ellect, the .school being not for general educa- 
 tion but altogether Protestant, to the exclusion of Roman Catholics, though founder's family were 
 Koman Catholics, 3GC3 : — (see under Limerick.) 
 
 Kearney, Thomas, Esq., Co. Surveyor of East Division of Limerick, Agent of Erasmus Smith 
 Board for their Sontliern Estates; non-a])pearancc of, at Limerick, 3489, 3759 ; attendance of his 
 clerk, Mr. Uicharil Burke, with some of the books, 37C0 et scq. 4562-8, 4594-G. 
 
 Attendance and evidence of Mr. Kearney, 4467 et seq., 4565, 4569 et seq. 
 
 Rental, extent, and income of Limerick and Tipporary estates of Erasmus Smith Endowment, 
 and amount expended for eilucation in County Limerick, 4513-4 et seq., 453G et .seq., 4470-7, 4513 
 et seq., 4536 et seq. 
 
 Only one school on the Limerick estate, that at Pallas (see raUa.yrecn), 4478-9. Two schools 
 on Tipperary estate, Abbey School and English School, 4482-G. 
 
 No agricultural instruction on Limerick or Tipperary estates, and nothing done to improve the 
 system of agriculture, 4480-1. 4487-9. Particulars of .system of agriculture practised, and general 
 management (if estates, 4493 et seq. 
 
 Clothing; directions of governors to supply clothing to be.st boys in Tipperary school, 4509-12. 
 
 Arrears of rent due by tenants, 4524-30, 458G et seq. Himself a yearly tenant on the estate, 
 4532-5. 
 
 Further evidence as to nature of his duties, management and extent of visitation of estates, 
 4569 et seq. 
 Keaveney, Rev. Thomas, p.p., Annadown, Co. Gahvay ; as to Annadown and Woiidpark Schools, and 
 endowments by Rev. Redmond Hargadan and Mr. Blake, of Cregg Castle ; — letter from, 5409 ; 
 evidence, 5411 et scq. : — see under Annadown and }]'oodjjark. 
 Kechy, j\Irs. Agnes Eliza, mother of two boys formerly at Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork 
 evidence of, 18898 et seq. : — see MidUton. 
 
 Kdlcit, James, Esq., Surgeon, Naas, Co. Kildare : — Evidence of, as to general state of education, and 
 want of adequate provision for same in locality ; agrees with Dr. Hayes's evidence (see //(vycs) ; a 
 good school would have good attendance, 14005 ; objections to educational tax, 1400G-9 ; certainly 
 would prefer paying out of the Consolidated Fund, 14010. 
 
 Kellelt, Miss ; Bequest of, for building schoolhouses iu Co. Meath :^ 
 
 Evidence of the Rev. Frederick Trench, Rector of Xewtown, Meath: — Procured copy of Mi,-s 
 Kellett's will from Charitable Bequests Commissioners: of £3,000, bequeathed in 1811 by her for 
 building sclioolhouses in Co. Meath, only £100 expended in that county in building a National 
 schoolhouse .at Carlanstown ; present executor never before acquainte<l with the matter, but has 
 been supporting schools in Dublin out of the same fund lor forty years, but none applicil to Meath 
 except the above £130 ; about £2,000 remaining, and now thinks it will be right to withdraw the 
 funds for the future from Dublin, and employ them in Meath, according to provisions of will, 
 128'60-1. Rev. Jlr. Trench wishes to know whether the remainder of the £3,000, and interest for 
 the forty years, could not be recovered for Meath, 128G1-2. 
 
 Kells, Co. Meath: 
 
 Evidence of AVil'.iam Ford, Esq., Town Clerk of Dublin, agent to Dempsey Trustees, as to Mi.i.s 
 Dempsey's endowment for male and female schools at Kells ; amount and management of endow- 
 ment, kc, 12409-29. 
 
 Evidence of Hercules M'Donnell, Esq., Secretary of Charitable Bequests Board, as to a donation 
 by Wm. M'Nally of £10 a year for a school at Kells, 23179. 
 
 Kelly, Edmond, Esq., j.p., Roscommon : — A])p!ication for j£150 to repair diocesan school at Elphin. 
 refused by Grand Jury on the ground that the public receive no benefit whatever from the school, 
 and should not pay any part of its expenses ; refused at special or road sessions, and afterwards l)v 
 Grand Jury at assizes, 7435-40 : arraugements relating to free pupils influenced Grand Jury ; 
 money was formerly granted to buihl the house and afterwards for repairs, but then there were 
 free pupils, 7441 ; thinks the Grand Jury would jirescnt if a moderate number of pupils li.ad the 
 advantage of the institution, 7443; and the clergy should receive some adv.antage in the education 
 of their sons, as they contribute to the funds, 7444-6. 
 
 See as to diocesan school, under Elphin. 
 
 Kelly, Mr. Ignatius; evidence of, as to supposed endowments for a school at Knappa, Co. Mayo 
 6089. — See Knappa. 
 Vol. II. 3 U
 
 510 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 KeUy, John, Esq., Classical JIa.ster of i^avan School, (Preston Endowment), Co. Mcatli, 13008 et scq. : 
 suggests that the school should be removed to Kells, where it would Le more useful aud succeed 
 better, 13009-10; or it might be better if removed a little out of the town of Navan, 13013; 
 gentlemen's sons at present educated in national schools, would be better in the endowed school, 
 13015-8. — (See further, under Navan.) 
 
 Kennedy, Mr. John, Junior Assistant Cavan Royal School ; evidence of, 8096 et seq. 
 
 Kennedy, Very Kev. Itobert 21., Dean of Clonfert, Rector of Clonmeena ; evidence of, as to Kilbricken 
 
 School, Queen's Co. (see Kilbriclsn,) 5026-53, 5066-70. 
 
 Kennedy, Tristram, Esq., a. p. for Co. Louth : — 
 
 Paper on the Industrial Training Institutions of Belgium, and on the possibility of organizing 
 an analogous s_ystem in connection with the National Schools of Ireland, by Tristram Kennedy, Esq., 
 ii.p., and William K. Sullivan, Esq., Professor of Chemistry to the Museum of Irish Industry, 
 11823. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Kennedy, in reference to inadequacy of provision for education of middle 
 classes, and industrial training of lower orders, 11824 et seq. 
 
 Hands in a written statement containing suggestions as to education of middle classes ; advo- 
 cates the establishment of preparatory schools deriving support partly from public funds, aud 
 partly from a liberal contribution of fees suitable to the means of the pupils, 14825. 
 
 Injurious effect of national schools, as regards the middle classes, by consequent extinction of 
 private schools, teachers of which lost their means of support, 14825. 
 
 Kenned;/, Rev. WUUnm, Incun)bcnt of St. DoIoulIi's, Superintendent of Borough School of Swords, 
 Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, as to the school and its management, and as to complaints respecting the 
 same (see under Swords), 14205 ct stq., 14565-G, 14S2S el seq., 15911 ei seq., 10187-91, 10299-309, 
 10323-5, 16333-7, 10347, 16361^412. 
 
 Superintendent not resident at Swords ; resides at three miles distance ; non-residence never 
 complained of, 14420-30. Leave of absence and illness; absent from the school for six weeks; 
 religious instruction attended to by master, who is not a clergyman, aud by Curate of Swords, 
 14442-55. 
 
 Industrial education in manufactures or otherwise, none in boys school ; needlework in girls 
 school, 14280-6. As to encouragement of agriculture and manufactures; formerly a subscription 
 to Fingal Agricultural Society, 14377-81 : and formerly a large Spinning School established, 
 16303. Success in after-life of pupils, 14375-6. 
 
 Infant school get a piece of bread in school daily ; no food or meal for rest of school, 14356-9. 
 
 Coal funds and distribution ; management and regulation of same, 14297-328, 14382-8. 
 
 Dispensary relief to inhabitants generally without regard to religion of applicants, 14351-5. 
 
 Further evidence as to supply of coals and medical relief; and legal opinions as to aiiplication 
 of funds to those purposes, 16299-309. 
 
 Apprenticing ; numbers apprenticed, diminished, and fees increased, 143G3-74. 
 
 Funds: capital increased from £15,000 to .£24,500 by accumulation of interest, 14360-2. 
 Accounts and books kept by Mr. Kennedy ; audited by Dean of St. Patrick's as treasurer, half- 
 yearly, 14346-50, 14389-414, 16006 et seq. Complaints as to misapplication of funds to emigra- 
 tion and to purchase of lands and houses ; statement of circumstances in cases referred to, 
 14477-96. 
 
 Visitation of school by the local governor, who is vicar of Swords ; no other visitation by 
 governors, 14431-41. 
 
 Rules of the school and their publication, 14329-45, 14034. 
 
 Does not ascribe the withdrawal of the Roman Catholic children solely to the reading of the 
 Scriptures in school ; believes it was that the Roman Catholics have not themselves the disposal of 
 a portion of the funds, 14496-501, 14093. Reference to memorials and minutes of the governors 
 on the subject, 14502-31, 14828-37, 10323-5, 16333-7, 16361 H scq. : as to proceedings and 
 opinions of governors and public notice of 10th October, 1855, as to religious instruction, ajipren- 
 tice fees, Ac, nioile of acting upon the existing regulation as to religious instruction, &c., 15911- 
 10005 : examinations for apprentice fees, 15956, 15990 et seq. 
 
 Night school, formerly largely attended ; no attendance since with<lrawal of childreu from day 
 school ; master receives £10 for evening .school for doing nothing, 16079-82, 16088-9 : was very 
 beneficial, and such schools would be beneficial in every town ; no exclusion of adults ; no 
 restriction as to age of persons attending, 10090-5 : .similar schools elsewhere. Ballymcna evening 
 schools for males and females, 16096-102. 
 
 (Sec further, as to Borough School, under Swords.) 
 
 Kenny, .Teiseph, Esq., Mayor of Clonmel, Co. Tip]>erary : Evidence of, as to Cloumel Endowed Scliool 
 and cau.'ics of its decline to same elfect as that of Mr. Mooro (sec Jtooiv, .S'.), 1041-9. Suggests that 
 as the number of freemen of Clonmel are becoming very .small indec^l, tiie establishment, intended 
 to bo a Protestant institnlion, and for Ircemen only, should be modifieil to suit the recpuremcnts of 
 the time, and the funds be ajiplied for the good of tlie public of Clonmel generally, and not for any 
 jtarticular siict or cla.ss exclusively, 1041. 
 
 The 7naster, Mr. Kottlewell, expresses his concurrence in regard t<> throwing ojicn the educa- 
 tion to all, 1044. 
 
 Mayor considers it would be a great ailvanlage to Clonmel to bavc a w( 11-regulated cla-ssiciil 
 .school and well-regulated commercial school ; is certain such schools would be well supported, 
 1047-9. — (See under Clonmel.) 
 
 Kerr, D. S., E.sq., Patron of School at Downpatrick, and cnilowracnt ; sec Downpatrick.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 511 
 
 Kerry, Co. of: Inquiry as to selioola and enflownicnts, and state of oJiication ; evidence taken at 
 Tralec, IZX^ et seq. 
 
 Kdtlewdl, Rev. Thomas, Master of Endowed Scbool of Cloumel, Co. Ti]ipciary : 
 
 Matters in di.spiitc between the master, Rev. T. Kettlewell, and the Clare-street Commissioners 
 of Education : Rejort of Board for 1851, on a visitation of the scliool and conduct of the master; 
 publications by him of misconcejjtions in matters of fact and unsound conclusions therefrom, 714. 
 
 Letter from Kev. Thomas Kettlewell, master, complaining of the Claro-street Commissioners, and 
 referring to liis j.ul.lications on the subject, 715. Evidence of, 717-805, 89.3-9, 1012-C, 1119, 
 1 12.5 : (see under i'lonmel.) 
 
 Kevin-slrct Schoo], Dublin, for girls, under Incorporated Society, Ai-dlll, 23.310, 23398-406: — eee 
 
 Incorporated Society. 
 A"icZ(/, ,7am«, Esq., merchant, Sligo ; Evidence of, as to ^\estprn EstatotJ of Era.«mus Smith Board, 
 
 C57S ; and as to iusiilliciency of provision for education in neitrhbourhond of Sligo, out of the large 
 
 estates of Erasmus Smith: funds, if properly used, sufBcient to establish a good school; present 
 
 Erasmus Smith School not sutiicicnt for wants of the town, 0579-80. 
 
 Evidence as to General State of Education of middle classes, and wunt of adequate means for 
 obtaining it, in the locality, 0581 cl scq. 
 
 Want for the middle classes of schools, intermediate between the present schools and the Queen's 
 Colleges, 0584, 0593 ; defective means of Education at present in the neighbourhood of Sligo, 
 0585-97. Higher order of persons in the town obliged to send to distant places for the jiurpose of 
 education, GGIU. 
 
 Description of education required for successful mercantile life, 6587-8 ; great deficiency of edu- 
 cation in clerks and young men at present, 0589-91, GG02-10. Agrees in Mr. W_ynne's suggestion 
 (see Wi/iiiii'), of necessity for sujterior English schools, giving a good English education, but also 
 teaching modern languages, and classical and scientific education, 6587. One in Sligo would be 
 Well attended, boys jiaying from £4 to £8 or £10 each, 0014-0, 0041. 
 
 As to Endowment for establi.'^hing the schools required, amounts that should be provided, 6612. 
 Existing endowments of Erasmus Suiitli, and of Diocesan Schools, itc, suflicient for endowment of 
 schools in most of the large towns, 6598-GOl, GG13, 6017-0, GG22-3 ; but if these funds cannot be 
 made available, would have schools of (Sovernraent foundation, and charge the Consolidated Fund ; 
 would have a special endowment for educational purposes, CGI 9-20. Objections to a local education 
 tax for the purpose, 0G21. 
 
 Largo endowment not required ; emoluments of the master should <lepeud a good deal upon the 
 number of pupils and success of the school ; thinks £180 a-year suUicient endowment for master 
 in such a town as Sligo, 6G41. Apjiointmcnt of well educated men capable of imparting good 
 education as Masters, 6024-5 ; not clergymen, 6042-3. 
 
 Mixed Education. — The schools to bo open to all classes without religious distinction, and for 
 secular instruction only; no religious instruction within the school ; should be provided for at home 
 by the parents and clergy of each sect, 0o30-9, 0043-50 ; importance of religious instruction under 
 the parent's eye, 0G3-5, 0039. 
 
 Would bring home these schools to the people, so as to have no necessity generally for boarding 
 
 schools, or sending boys away ; would have them generally day-schools only, 6640. 
 
 Supervision. — Would have local inspectors or visitors, and also Government inspectors, or a 
 Board for surveillance of the schools, and to rejjort thereon, 6026-9. 
 
 Jiieran, Rev. J/., p.p.. letter from, as to school formerly established by Mr. Fortescue, at Stephens- 
 town, in parish of Louth, 12232 : (see Stfphenslown.) 
 
 Kieran, Tliomas, Memorial of: — Apjilied for ai'mission of his son as a free scholar at Armagh Royal 
 School ; refused by the master, and grounds assigned for refusal ; prays that the school be opened 
 .for the education of the young in the locality, and that the trusts of the charter be carried into full 
 efi'ect, 9363-5. (See Armafjh, Roj'al School.) 
 
 Kieran, Rev. Thomas, r.c.c, Malahide, on the part of Rev. Mr. Montague ; Letter from, as to bequest of 
 moneys by Dean Scardeville for Protestants in Swords, and purchase of Economy Lands, therewith, 
 rents of which are stated to be distributed to poor Protestants of Swords, 14989 : — (see under Swords.) 
 Letter from, complaining of misapplication of funds of Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, to 
 proselytizing purposes, and refusal of coals to parents of children withdrawn by Roman Catholic 
 clergy; Memorial to Archbishop of Dublin, by iuhal)itants, respecting grievances, 14031: — 
 Evidence to same efi'ect, and written statement as to rights of Roman Catholics in respect of this 
 endowment; correspondence with Archbishop of Dublin and Board of Governors; arguments of 
 witness, 14056-01. 
 
 Memorial to governors, in 1842, set forth, 14061-2 ;— Letters from the chaplain and secretary 
 of the Archbishop in reference to this memorial, and correspondence on the subject, 14003-7. 
 
 Further memorial to governors in 1848 from inhabitants : funds intended for moral and religion? 
 education without distinction of creeds ; objection to reading of the Scriptures as a class-book ; 
 request sub'stitution of National Board Extracts; shoidd be Roman Catholic master and mistress; 
 apprentice fees and number of apprentices, 14073. 
 
 Complaints at various times; obligation on children to learn Protestant catechism, 14080-3 ; 
 withdrawal of Roman Catholic children in 1839 or 1840 and in 1853, 14084-91 : and a school 
 carried on in Roman Catholic chapel, 14094-103. 
 
 Alteration of rules by governors, 10th Oct., 1855, in regard to religious instruction; adoption 
 of regulation similar to that of National Schi)ol.<5, 14034, 14077, 14070. 
 
 Resolutions of a meeting of Roman Catholic inhabitants on 21st Oct., 1855, objecting to the new 
 regulation, 'and demanding a separate and proportionate share of the endowment, 14093. — (See 
 under Swords, Borough School.) 
 
 Kilhriclm, Queen's Co. : School (under Clare-street Commissioners of Education) for the tenantry 
 of the Preston estate, in connection with Ballyroan and Kavan schools: 
 Vol. II. 3 U 2
 
 512 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Kilbric/ien, Queen's Co., — continued. 
 
 Unsatisfactory and depressed state of school, and causes tliercof ; disputes as to the introduction 
 of Roman Catholic religious instruction, and as to placing the school under the Natioual Bo.ard ; 
 school discountenanced by Roman Catholic clergyman because of want of Roman Catholic religious 
 instruction, 4915-.5070. 
 
 Previous Reports, 491;"i-27. 
 
 Present Inquiry: — Evidence of Mr. AVilliani ^looney, tearlier, 4928-503.'), 5050-65. Evidence 
 of Very Rev. Robert M. Kennedy, Dean of Clonfert, &c., .3026-55, 5066-70. 
 
 Kilcash, in parish of Killaloan, Co. Tipperary : Lady Osborne's school ; see K'dlahian. 
 Kilcommon Agricultural School, Co. Mayo : 
 
 Model farming school built by charity and collections ; four or five thousand pounds expended ; 
 school discontinued, but cause unknown, 6225. Land, 6220, 6230. 
 
 Letter of Rev. .Tohn O'Callaghan, Oughterard, 6220. 
 
 Evidence of Archibald Stafford, Esfp, 6221-4, 6229-32. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William B. Stoney, Rector of Castlebar, 6225-8. 
 
 K'dcrohanc, Co. Kerry : endowment by General Count O'Conncll ; sec under Cahcrciveen. 
 
 Kilcummiii; see Kilcommon, Co. Mayo. 
 
 Kildare, Co. of : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of cducatiuu ; evidence taken 
 at Naas, 13789 et stq. — See Xaas. 
 
 Kildarragh ; parochial school of Castleraghan, Co. Cavaii : see Castleraghan. 
 
 Kilfenora, Diocese of Killaloe and ; see Killaloe. 
 
 Kilkenny, Co. and City : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; cvideuoe 
 taken at Kilkenny, 84 el seq. 
 
 Grammar School, 84-143. 
 Orphan Girls School, 148. 
 Pocockc Institution ; Bishop Pococke's Weaving School, (under Incorporated Society), 1689, 7008, 
 
 23250-8, 23264-6 et seg. 
 Protestant School, endowed by Mr. Joseph Evans, 144-7. 
 St. John's National School, 150. 
 St. Mary's Parochial School, 149. 
 Tenison, Bishop ; school endowed by, 151. 
 
 KILKENNY CISAMMAR SCHOOL. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Browne, ll.d., master. — Nature of endowment by first Duke of 
 Ormonde; value £140 a-year ; but for alienation of property (tithes) from which first paid, the 
 amount would now be greater : Parliamentary grant of £5,000 for building, 85. Misapplication 
 of funds, 86. Between sixty and seventy pupils ; proportion of boarders and day scholars ; not 
 so numerous as might bo expected in such a city ; but the Puuuan Catholics have a college of their 
 own, and there are several schools besides, 87-92, 129, 130: cnunicralion of thom, 121-3. No 
 want of schools for classical education at Kilkenny, 141-3. 
 
 Buildings in good repair; cost of repairs, and how defrayed, 93-95. 
 
 Inspection of schools ; Visitors, the provost of Trinity College and the Bishop of the diocese, arc 
 bound to inspect; the Bishop does sometimes, the Provost never, 96-104, 117. No inspection by 
 Clare-street Board, but returns made to them, 110-120. 
 
 Is a classical or grammar school, 105 : gets a fair average of distinction and university honors 
 98, 102 ; particulars, 131-3. Class of pupils, mostly gentlemen's sons, and sons of persons in 
 business, 107. Majority, Protestants; one Roman Ciitholic boarder; has had two or throe Roman 
 <'atholic boarders from time to time, 108. No objection on religious grounds ever made to 
 pupils attending: one of the masters a Roman Catholic, who has any Roman Catholic jtupils 
 entirely 'nnler his care, and attends them to their own clergy, 124-8. Scriptures jiart of school 
 course for Protestant boys, Roman Catholics having separate room during Scrijitural instruction, 
 126-7. Previously master at Bandon school ; had Ronuin Catholic as well as Protestant pupils, 
 129, 136-140. Regrets that there are no exhibitions connected with the school, 132. 
 
 ORI'IIAK QIKLS SCHOOL, KILKHNXlf. 
 
 Evidence of .John G. A. Prim, Esq.: Convent School, Mr.s. Meehaii trustee; house given u]i to 
 Board of Guardians, 148. 
 
 rOCDCKK INSTITDTIO.N. 
 
 Bishop of Ossory, Dr. Pocockes foundation for a weaving school near Kilkenny, 1689, 7u08. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. R. Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Society : — Pocockc foundation for Roman 
 Catholic boys only, to be educated as Protestants ; trusts not carried out, 23253-8, 2326 t-6 e( seq.: 
 (see Incorpnriltud Society.) 
 
 PKOTI'HTANT Sf'HOOI., KILKHNNY, KNDOWKD BY MR. JOSEPH KVAXS. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Browne, LL.D., master of Kilkenny Grammar School. — Long litigation 
 between the trustees of this charity and Bank of Inland, arising out of a forgery by which a 
 former agent drew £10,000 ; still pending ; meanwhile, school not worked efiiciently, 144. 
 
 There is a line building ; no master, his school being thrown into |ia.rocliial school ; there is an 
 infant school, ami mistress keeps a fenuile school, 145-7. 
 
 Killaloa7i, Co. Tii)j)erary ; Lady Osborne's school at Kilcash, in parish of Killaloan : school rounded by 
 Lord Ormonde, broken up, 667, 669 : Lady Osborne'sschool, a national school, not endowed, 667, (;7U. 
 Evidence of Mr. Thomas Jameson, teacher of Lady (J>borne's Killnloan National School, 668, 
 082 el icq. 
 
 Killaloe: Memorial from tin; Lord Bishop and Clergy of Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora, relative 
 to Limerick District School and desiring a separate school for the above di<icesc (sec under Liiiuricl; 
 Diocesan Sc\ioo\), page 301.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 513 
 
 Killarneij, Oo. Kerry: Dr. Fagan's Endowment for a school at, 2337 H seq. 
 
 Nature of Dr. Fagan's bequest; ilcfauUing trust; notliing now received frou: it for school, 
 2.337-9. 
 
 Letter from ^Ir. Alphonsus Gaynor, master of school, 2337. 
 K'dlashee, Co. Longford :— Evidence of Rev. llobcrt T. Bevan, Curate of Killashce, Co. Longford, 
 77(J2-7785. 
 
 Two schools in Kilhishen, one under Erasniiis Smith, and a (iirls Charity School supported by 
 the incumbent, witlunit endowment, tlie hitter at Clondragh, 77(il-G, 7708-71 ; no school now at 
 Clondragh, 7772. Another school mentioned, but not endowed, 7773. 
 
 Killaslieo Erasmus Smltli School : — Usual number of pupils ; Protestants and lloman Catholics, 
 7774-5, 7771) ; discrepamty in numbers returned, 7781-1 : visits the .«chool for catechising the 
 childi-cn, and lias examined them ; four learning Euclid, 7777-8, 77SO. 
 
 Kilkad and Jial/i/robin, Co. Antrim : 
 
 Information in reports of previous imiuiries : — Commissioners of Public Instruction report 
 (183.5,) a school iu parish of Killea<l, with a legacy, ttc. ; Commissioners of Education Inquiry, 
 (182-5,) report Ballyrobin School, Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 10300. 
 
 Present Inquiry: — Communications from the Rev. Henry R. Mecred3', Presbyterian Minister, 
 Killead, 10300, 10301 ; Evidence of Mr. Mecredy, 10302-10319. 
 
 Throe Endowments for Schools at Ballyrobin and Killead : legacy of £20 per annum for a day 
 .school ; grant of ,£15 from Lord Lieuten;int's Fund, in consideration of a site being conveyed in 
 jicrpetuity, and a sum of £14 being subscribed, 10300 ; bequest of lands and money by Counsellor 
 John Dunne, 10301-2 ; uncertainty as to the ai)plication of these sums, and the last named 
 bequest lost, 10300-10318. 
 Kilkavy; Erasmus Smith School formerly at Sturgan, in parish of, Co. Armagh ; sec Sturgan. 
 
 A'ilken, Mr. Thomns, second master of Erasmus Smith Grammar School, Galway : — Evidence of, 
 regarding the state and management of the school, 5473 H ser/., 2014G-55, 20253-GO. 
 
 Free pupils: — Governor.s' notice published in 1854; believes they have not since refused any 
 application for admission of free pupils ; an application now before them, 5487-9. 
 
 Inconie and emoluments from salaries, residence, land, Ac., of the endowment, 5561-8 : about 
 ,£300, or at the rate of £50 a-year for each free pupil, 5678-83. Pension to late master, Mr, 
 Eaton, 5592. 
 
 Course of instruction in the school, and division of business between master and assistants ; 
 classics; but little mercantile or commercial education in it, 5589-90, 5008-5025,5672-5, 5059-71. 
 
 Supposed causes of decline in numbers attending the school, and witness's alleged apprehension 
 of Governor.s' displeasure at his evidence, 5492, 5496-9, 5507-8. 
 
 Other classical schools in neighbourhood; successful competition of model school, which injures 
 the grammar school, 5598-5000. No great demand for mercantile and commercial education in 
 Galway beyond what the Claddagh National School aflords, 5611-3. 
 
 Has private tuitions ; sometimes receives payment for teaching boys of the school out of school 
 hours, 5577-88. 
 
 See further, under ffaZwoy, and Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, ic. of Erasmus Smith Board, 
 (23004 ct scq.) under Erasmus Smith. 
 
 KdIcrmo<jh, Queen's Co.: Evidence of Rev. Edward Bailey, Curate of Killormogh, as to School 
 endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 5104-5112. 
 
 Dilapidated state of schoolhouse, no school in consequence ; was a flourishing school, now small 
 attenilancc in consequence of emigration ; if school iu good repair, a tolerable number to attend ; 
 knows a number who would, sixteen. 5105-9. — Want of funds to repair it: would require £25 
 at least, 5107-8. — Boys who would attend do not go to any school ; some children go three miles off, 
 would be glad to go to this school if repaired, 5 1 11, — At jirescnt three or four children at the school, 
 which is unfit for them ; in 1854, none : at one time, seventy giils and sixty boys attending, 5112. 
 Killevan, parish of, Co. Mouaglian : 
 
 Endowment for schools by Rev. William Harris, of Killevan (ob. 1841); bequest for building 
 four National schools, two in parish of Killevan, two in parish of Aughabog, 9304. 
 Kilhjlass, Co. Sligo ; Valentine's School, at Frankfort. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries; particulars of Endowment left liy Rev. Dr. 
 Valentine ; numbers of pupils, boys and girls ; course of instruction, lic., 0322-5. 
 
 Present Inquiri;. — Evidence of Rev. Samuel Stock, Vicar of Castleconnor ; terms of bequest in 
 will, for a Protestant Charity School and apprenticing some of the boys ; erection of schoi)lhou,se 
 from accumulation of endowment, 0331-41. Few apprentices, 0342-3, 0545-8. In.spection by 
 clergyman ; school not in connection with any society, 6348-9, 0360. Numbers of pupils in the 
 .■school, and auxiliary .schools at Larcamore and Ardvally, iu diflorent years, 6544 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Henry Campbell, master of Valentine School ; number of pupils sixty, increas- 
 ing, 6369-70. Course of instruction, examination b}' clergyman, and other particulars of the .school, 
 G391 el seq. 
 
 KiUinrh'i, Co. Down : Endowment Uft by Hon. Mrs. Anne Hamilton, 9821 et seq., I225ietseq.: (see 
 under Dundalk, Incorporated Society's School.) 
 
 KilloiKjh, Co. Down : — School endowment by .Judge Ward and Mr. Hamilton, 9778 el seq., 20305 et seq. 
 
 Return from Charitable Bequests Commissioners ; bequests of Judge Ward and Rev. Jamet- 
 Hamilton, 9778. 
 
 Communications from Rev. S. M. West, Incumbent of I\illou<;h ; school closed in consequence 
 of disagreements as to the application of proceeds of bequest, S778-9. Evidence of Mr. West .as to
 
 514 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Killovgfi,, Co. Down — continued. 
 
 withdrawing of Mr. Haniilton's bequest, and communication from the Primate on the subject, 
 9781 et seq. Further evidence of Ilev. S. M. West, in answer to Mr. Despard, (agent of Lord 
 Banp'or and of the Charitv,) who controverts Mr. West's statements as to endowment, 20305-7, 
 20310, 20312-3. 
 
 Correspondence wit!) Mr. Despard, 20305, 20308; Mr. Despard under a misapprehension; no 
 doubt of endowment, 20309, 20313. 
 
 Letter from Charitable Bequests Board, 20308. 
 
 Statement by Mr. Robert Nelson, former master of Killougli school, as to his removal by 
 improper interference of agent of property on which it stood, 9780. 
 Eillyhegs, Co. Donegal ; statement by Mr. Magee, Newry, (see Armagh,) as to endowments, 9373. 
 Kilmannan ; Clonaslee, Queen's Co. : see Ctonaslee. 
 Kilmeaden, Co. Waterford : 
 
 Previous Reports, 330. 
 
 Present Tnquir<j. — Communication from the P>ev. John Bonrhe, Vicar of Kilmeaden, Patron of 
 School, respecting the sale of the ]iroperty on which the school stands, under Incumbered Estates 
 Act, and consequent difficulties and litigation, 330. Evidence of Mr. Bourke : — difficulties arising 
 out of the pro])erty having been described as held upon a tenancy from j'ear to year though held 
 under lease, and no notice before sale having been given to him as patron, or to trustees ; pro- 
 ceedings to enforce payment of rent defeated; notice to quit now served, to break the lease; 
 hands in lease; further particulars, 331-338, 340-362. 
 
 Evidence of Edward Elliott, Esq., Solicitor, as to proceedings in the case, 382. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William M'Cance, replying to statements made respecting him and his pur- 
 chase of tlic property, 383-7, 540 et seq. 
 
 Eilmeahj, Co. Clare : Erasmus Smith School, the Board of Governors contributing half the funds, and 
 
 Lord Conyngham giving an acre and half of ground, 3810-3. 
 Kilmore, Dean of, Very Rev. Lord Fitzgerald and Vesey, Rector of Castleraghan, Co. Cavan ; letter 
 relating to Castleraghan Parochial School, 781G ; evidence, 7817-21 ; (see Castleraghan). 
 
 Letter as to school of Kilmore, endowed by Association for Discountenancing Vice, 7822; school 
 on townland of Gartbrattan, now closed ; another in townland of CorratoLber, 7822-3 : evidence, 
 7823. 
 
 Evidence as to school at Ballintemple, 7825 (see BaUintemple). 
 Eilmore, Co. Cavan : 
 
 School endowed under Association for Discountenancing Vice, 7823. 
 
 Letter from Lord Fitzgerald and Vese}', Dean of Kilmore; establishment and means of support 
 of a school on townland of Gartbrattan ; now closed ; — another school in townland of Corratobber 
 for female children and little boys, 7822-3. 
 
 Kilmore Roman Catholic Academy, Cavan : 
 
 Bequests by John Brady of Cavan, tobacconist, for the academy and for a National school, 7786 : 
 his will, 7814-5. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John O'Reilly, Head master : — Number of pupils, twelve boarders and twenty- 
 three day boys, 7787-92 : from middle classes, 7793. 
 
 Education, classical and commercial, and for ecclesiastical colleges and Queen's colleges; prin- 
 cipallv designed for ecclesiastical colleges, 7794-7. Class of persons from the locality : rate of 
 payments for pupils ; none free, 7804-10. Endowment would be of advantage by admitting of 
 smaller charges, and would increase numbers, 7811-3. 
 
 National school; description of education and pupils, 7798-7801: does not unfit the humbler 
 classes for a working life, but the contrary, 7802-3. 
 
 Kilmore, Co. Monaghan : endowment for schools by Miss M. Sconiberg, 9305. 
 
 Kilmore. Clogher, and Raphoe District Diocesan School, at Monaghan ; see Monaghan. 
 
 Klqueewj, Co. Wicklow ; school at, see under Castlemacadam. 
 
 KillogardoT Ki'loghart, parish of, Co. Lcitrim ; endowment for a school at Jamestown ; see Jamestown. 
 
 King, Rev. Luke White, ll.d.. Head Master of Erasmus Smith School atEnuis, Co. Clare; — Evidence 
 as to Erasmus Smith School at Kilmealy, Co. Clare, 1310-3 : as to Erasmus Smith School at Ennis, 
 return from, 3833 : evidence of, 3836 et seq., 4046, 4102 et seq. 
 
 Co'trsc of Instrnelion in Grammar School of Erasmus Smith at Ennis : — Half the nine hours of 
 study devoted by head pupils to classics; lialf the time to general science, mathematics, French, 
 German, and English, 3885, 3888. Distraction given particularly for C(}mmercial pursuits, 3893. 
 Importance of moilern languages; particular attention given to tliem, and especially to English 
 composition, 3887 ; teaching of modein languages docs not encroach unduly on school time, and 
 one language assists another, 3888-90. French very necessary in commercial and scientific pur- 
 suits, 3891-2. Value of geometry and algebra in developing the intellectual faculties, but some- 
 times carried too far in sclioola; ancient and modern l-.mguages equally valuable in im])roving the 
 intellectual powers, where properly taught, 3895-7. Advantages of cndiracing natural sciences, as 
 natural history and physiology, chemistry and mechanics, ic, in course of instruction and in com- 
 mercial and agricultural education; great intellectual improvement therefrom, 3883-5; tendency 
 of course in National schools embracing these subjects, to raise the children to a better position, 
 3883, 3886. 
 
 Combination of cla-ssical and commercial education not attended with inconvenience iii a well- 
 regulated school ; with two or three teachers, different branches can be carried on concurrently 
 wiUiout difficulty, 3893-4, 3963, 3970.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDEA^CE. 515 
 
 King, Rev. LuTce While, ll.d., Ennia, — contiiuioJ. 
 
 Results of Education f^ivon : tlio boys lie tends to the Univcrtity, able to liold places with 
 the best, at the same time that tln-y have attained a linowledgc of irioilern lan;;ua;;eK and sciences in 
 the coarse of instruction above ruforred to, 3888 : vvlien a lad from his school is coni|)elcnt to 
 contend for a Hrst j>ri/,n at entrance, he is in frcncral fit also for any commercial office what- 
 ever; in general a ifood English scholar, an excellent arithmetician, and well adinainted with 
 other subjects, 381)3. 
 
 Rdlyious Indruclion : — rcquireil by Charter that the Scriptures and Protestant Catccliisni 
 should be taught; never done for free boys: does not in(|uire on ajiplication for admission 
 whether Prolestant or Roman Catholic, and never interferes with creed of lioman Catholics; un- 
 willingness nevertheless of Roman Catholics to avail themselves of the free pl.-ices or let tlieir 
 cliildren attend the school, 3'JO'J. 
 
 Free pupils treated and instructed in every respect like other day scholars, 3849 ; generally 
 from the locality, but sometimes come from a distance, Roscommon and other places, and take 
 lodgings, to have advantage of school, 3852. Difficult to get parents to acce[)tfree places for boys 
 on foundation ; wealthy people would be willing; but the poor are generally Ho)nan Catholics and 
 are not allowed to send them, though he never interferes with their creed in any way, 3['G9. 
 
 Nomination of free pupils : — Board of Governors have lately, (in 1851:,) undertaken to nominate 
 the free pupils; but master himself admits, and never refuses any respoctalde jioor man's child kept 
 neat ; Board lately issued public notice that all unable to pay should apply to them for admission, 
 but have not acted on it ; have made no nomination whatever except on one occasion, 3846-8. 
 (For terms of Charter as to Free Scholars, see under ErasmvLs Smith). 
 
 fnspeclion, ExaminHtion, and Supervision. — No inspection, examination, or other means adopted 
 by governors to ascertain whether the .system of education jmrsued in the school is a good one, 
 3898-3901, 3997. Provision for visitation in the charter, 3815. 
 
 Suggestions of means by which the Board of Governors could improve the system of education ; as 
 by furnishing the master with additional appliances, bonks, and a .school library ; large maps to hang 
 up for use during the instruction in geography ; a school library, would be of the higlie.^t importance 
 in increasing the usefulness of the school ; shifts resorted to, to try to amuse the lads and interest 
 them in reading ; are subscribing so much a week to get a small library of their own ; hitherto out 
 of the question to apply to the Governors for aid towards establishing a school library. Ajiplied 
 to the Governors to give medals every six mouths to the best answerers in the school ; they con- 
 sented at last, and agreed to give four med.als every esamiuation, but clogged with conditions 
 which were wholly at variance with t!ie plan of carrying on all the branches of the school together, 
 ami compelled the master to give u[) the medals, 3902-7, 3968. 
 
 Refers to an attempt made by the Archbishop of Dubliu to encourage boys to apply themselves 
 to English composition ; his pupils applied once and got the prizes j but too small to induce any 
 further application, 4108-9. 
 
 Formerly, encouragement given to the school by neighbouring gentry, by annual donation.?, from 
 five to ten guineas, ilistributed in premiums of books and medals to the boys ; anno 1809 ; school 
 favourably reported of, 3828. 
 
 Exhibitions. — Inadequate value of Exhibitions of Erasmus Smith Schools : a sum of £7 7s. Sd. 
 (£8 Irish) occasionally allowed to Ennis School as an exhibition entrance to Trinity Collce ; for 
 seven years; its uselessness, from inadequacy of amount, and the exhibition granted only occasionally, 
 not being given exclusively to Erasmus Smith Schools : not inducement enough, like the exhibi- 
 tions of £30 and .£-50 attached to Royal schools, for boys to come or remain long ennuo-h to work 
 for it and get thoroughly educated ; they would go to the Royal schools, 3864-7, 3872, 4056. 
 
 Would reduce the number and increase the value of the exhibitions, 3823-5, 38G8, 4080. As 
 to value of exhibitions; a good exhibition is £30 or £40 a-year, to be held only while deserved ; 
 thinks none should be less than £20 to .£40 a-year ; to be contended for by all lads from Erasmus 
 Smith Schools, and given to best educated ; would limit his exhibitions to Erasmus Smith boy.s, 
 unless others be thrown open to them, which would only be equitable, 3868-9, 3871, 3923, 3945-6, 
 3965. Desirable that exhibitions in the university should be thrown open to candidates from any 
 school whatsoever ; would stimulate boys in difl'ereut schools ; if the four Erasuius Smith Grammar 
 Schools had six good exhibitions yearly, there would not be m.any boys to stand for them, and as 
 it would be ea.sy to obtain them, they would not exert themselves as if the exhibitions were open 
 to every school, 3870-1 : would also stimulate masters, 3872. 
 
 Throwing open all Exhibitions to all the schools of the country; would be a stimulus to masters : 
 but alone might operate injuriously in inducing teachers of little conscience to devote attention to 
 talented boys to the neglect of boys of less ability ; but exhibition system advantageous notwith- 
 standing ; and a proper system of inspection would correct the injurious tendency ; the exhibition 
 stimulant to masters combined with inspection would work well, 3872, 3947-3955. Thinks all 
 schools, endowed and others, should be subject to inspection, 3954 ; a yearly inspection by compe- 
 tent men, 39G7. 
 
 Throwing open Government appolufmcnts in the civil, military, and naval services, to competi- 
 tion ; would greatly stimulate exertion, and would improve education in the country, 3873. 
 - Manner in which such a system of competition should be carried out, 3874 et seq. : course of study 
 to be prescribed, and annual examination of candidates to be held at one fixed place, say Trinity 
 College, 3874-3878 ; as to security for ability and impartiality in examiners, and publicity of 
 examinations, 3879-3881. The examinatidns thould be had in London or England for Englishmen 
 or persons residing in England, and in Dublin for Irishmen, 3936-3943 : would allow everybod_y, 
 wherever educated, to contend, just as he would throw open Erasmus Smith exhibitions and Roj-al 
 school exhibitions to the cleverest boys, wherever they acquired their learning, 3944. Such exami- 
 nations would have an eftect on the nature of the instruction in Ennis school ; is already making 
 an improvement with reference to civil appointments, by introducing branches of instruction not 
 hitherto taught in it, 3883.
 
 51G ENDOWED SCnOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 King, Rev. Litlce White, Lr..i> , Ennis, — continued. 
 
 Masters and Assistants: — sraallnes.s of the ninstcr's .salary, and of iillunance for assistants, and too 
 little land annexed to the school, 38i'8-D, 38^7-3842 411i-G. 
 
 Promotion ; no sy.stein of, for assistant masters ; ilicy seldom remain more than a year, have no 
 iuduccnieut, except Engli.sh master, who has remained twenty-three years and a-half, 393G. 
 
 Pensions or Hetirinr/ allowances to Masters: — Dr. Kiiii,' instances several masters and one assistant, 
 pensioned at their full salary hy Erasmus Smith Board of Governors; applied himself four or five 
 times, thinkinLT himself, after forty-two years' tcachinLj, to have a claim, but was refused ; would 
 benefit the school to infuse new blood into it, 39:i7-3'Jl'i\ 
 
 Dr. Kinir refers to an endowment by Chief Justice Pattisou, for the Erasmus Smith Grammar 
 School at Ennis, ns lost ; left i."10 per annum to the school by will, of which a transcript was 
 communicated to the master, liev. Dr. King, and by him to the representative of the Chief Justice, 
 and to the agent of the property, who "knew nothing about it," and to the Erasmus Smith Board 
 of Governors, who referred it to their law adviser, and ansv.ercd that the matter was " involved 
 in an inextricable mystery;" the endowment, .£10 a-year, bartered for a horse ; entry in previous 
 master, Ilev. Mr. Fitziienild's book, "agent allowed Thomas Steele £10 yearly of the Pattisou 
 Charity for the horse, Strongbow," — 3924-5. 
 
 (See Ennis, Cnllinan, and ^•h: Barlow's Evidence as to their complaints under J;^rasinus>Smilh Board.) 
 
 King's Co. : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at Tulla- 
 more, 5228 et seq. 
 
 King's Hospital, at Oxmantown, Dublin, or Blue Coat School : see Oxmantoion. 
 
 Kirk, William, Esq., Armagh, m.p. for Newry ; Evidence as to Armagh Roy.al School, and as to 
 general state of education and inadequate provision for it ; suggestions, 9639 et seq. 
 
 Reads a written statement as to general state of education, and provision for it in his locality, 
 9640-96G3. lutiiaatcly connected with Armagh by residence and business as a linen merchant, 
 &c., for forty years : has heard complaints as to the Royal School, tliat the riicht to semi a boy 
 there was useless unless he were intended for a learned profession or Trinity College, as he would 
 only learn the Trinity College course, which he thinks the master, Mr. Guillcmard, has fairly 
 admitted, 9641, 9G4G-7: (see under Armagh.) 
 
 As a large employer of labour, is satisfied that though education is more general, it is of lower 
 quality than twenty years ago, owing to the National system having displaced schoolmasters who 
 before taught both classics and science : increased demand for educated persons, especially in lan- 
 guages, literature, and science : necessity for entire remodelling of the endowed schools, which were 
 intended for the middle classes generally, and not for the higher, nor as feeders to Trinity College ; 
 importance of schools for middle classes : — suggestions for a Board of Comuiissioners in Dublin, 
 selected from all parties; and for alterations in j)resent school arrangements, detailed, 9G42, 9G48- 
 9661. 
 
 If public appointments in civil, military, and naval services were thrown open to competition in 
 Dublin, it would give a great stimulus to education : should be thrown open without restriction as 
 to place of education, 9644-5. 
 
 Exhibitions and school scholarships should be done away with ; in order tliat funds might ho. better 
 applied, 9G48-50. 
 
 Boarders : should not !);■ resident upon the school [)remises ; would place them and day scholars 
 more on a footing, and dirticultics from divei'sity of r.digio us professions would be obviated, 9G-32-3 ; 
 provision for religious instructicm of boarders in houses in which resident, 9G54-5. As to religious 
 instruction in the school ; objections to it, beyond opening and closing the day with a general i)rayci-, 
 in which all could join, leaving further religious instruction to bo provided for out of the school, 
 9G55, 9660-2,. 
 
 As to eniohiiuents of masters, and extent to which they should depend on the number of pupils 
 and success of the school ; would have no such thing as free .scholars ; regulated payments ; mixture 
 of ranks, desirable; men of high character would become masters, 965G-9. 
 
 Kirwan, Very Rev. Anthong Lalouche, Dean of Limerick, and a trustee of the Blue Coat School, 
 Limerick ; 
 
 Evidence of, as to the Blue Coat School, Limerick, 327G et seq. Visitation of school and 
 fixamiuation of boys, 3281-2. Usually about live l)oys in the school, 3278-80. Formerly |)ay 
 pu])ils permitted, about nine, but got rid of as a nuisance, 3289-90. Original intention of the 
 school, to teach boys to sing in the choir, 3294-9: preference for singing boys and exclusion of 
 pay pupils, nolwilhstan<ling low salary of master, 3301-10. Einaiicial embarra.ssmcnts and con- 
 sequent discoi.tiiiuauce of clothing, 33.38. ITii.sati»factory account of school, 3340 el seq. 
 
 Further evidence as to combination of Blue School with Choir School, 3437 el seq. 
 
 liouse.^ left for use of Blue School, in ruins, 3448 et seq. Neglect of the pro])erty and manago- 
 ment of school, 3472 H saj. Defective education of boys ; unsatisfactory result of examination by 
 a Commissioner, 3482. 
 
 Subsequent statement in exi)lanalion of previous evidence, ;uul as to man,agoment of the school, 
 4663 et seq. — (See under Limerick, Blue Boys School.) 
 
 Evidence of, as to the Diocesan School, Limerick : — favourable o])inion of the master, Mr. Hogg, 
 and of his school management ; cause of falling off of the school, depression of the times and 
 inability of [lersons to send their children to school, 3208 el seq. Other schools in neighbourhood 
 referred to, 3228-40. — (See un<ler Limerick, Diocesan School.) 
 
 Kimppa, Co. Mayo : male and female scIiooIb, 6089 el seq. 
 
 Supjioscd (Midowmi'iit in laud : evidence of Mr. Ignatius Kelly, G089 ; communication from Ilev. 
 J. (/'ather, Vicar of Westport, G097. 
 
 Supposed endowment iu money : Evidence of Rolicrt Buchanan, Esq., j.p., 6098.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 517 
 
 Knapiown, Queen's County: 
 
 School emloweJ under Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; no longer in operation, 5113, 511C. lion, and 
 Rev. William Wingtlold states that as in other cases aid was given to build the school, and that 
 vifas all, the schools being lol't to private means ; in one case (in Wicklow) built in the chapel-yard, 
 and since adilcd as a wing to the chapel by the priest, 5117. 
 
 Knockdrilt, or Monclea School, parish of Rathconnell, Co. Westmeatii, 1.j095-G : see nndcr liatliconiiell. 
 
 Knolles, T. Walton, Esq., Oatlands, in parish of Kilmanagh or Kilnionogue, Kinsalc, Co. Cork, land- 
 lord of schoolhousc and premises : — Letter from, representing that the school formerly at Oatlands 
 is not now in operation, the late master having been dismissed six or seven years ago, but holds 
 the house and lands in spite of all attempts to eject him, leaving his family in possession while he 
 lives elsewhere, 1117. Evidence of, to same effect, 1168 et seq. (See ximhr Oatlands.) 
 Knox, John /luslecd, Esq., Newypapcr proprietor, Ennis, Co. Clare : resident at Ennis all his life ; 
 perfectly agrees with IJr. Cullinan (sec Culllnan) ; the want at Lnnis at present is ade((»ate oppor- 
 tunity of commercial education, more than in classics ; many persons in trade and commerce in 
 Ennis employing persons re(|uiring a rather superior education, find it difficult to obtain well 
 educated i)ersons ; himself requires intelligent persons, but those in the locality not well fitted or 
 educated ; a general want there of education of that kind, 4128-4145. 
 Kyle, Mr. John, Master of Erasmus Smith English School at Mufl", Co. Londonderry, 10599 et seq., 
 
 and par/es .312, .314 : — (see under Muf.) 
 Kyle, Venerable Samuel, Archdeacon of Cork, a visitor of MiJleton Endowed School : — Statement as 
 to absence of the Bishop at present inquiry, 17G01 ; Evidence, 1SG97 et seq. Charter and rules of 
 school, 18G97-70O. Minute-book of trustees, 18701-7. — See Midleton. 
 Kyle, William Cotter, Esq., ll.d.. Secretary of the (Clare-street) Commissioners of Education ; 
 Evidence of, in reference to Clare-street Board and schools under them, 1G447 et seq., 21078 et 
 seq., 21345 et seq., 2373G-7, 23739 et seq., 23981 et seq., 2398G et seq. : (see under Commissioners of 
 Education.) 
 
 Evidence of, as one of the Governors of and in reference to King Chas. II.'s School, or Blue .Coat 
 Hospital, at Oxniantown, Dublin, 225G1-78, 22638, 22069-90 :— (see Oxmantown.) 
 Lacy, Kov. George Frederick, Head Master of Erasmus Smith Grammar School, Droghcda : — Evidence 
 of, 12744 et seq. 
 
 Course of Education: — Classics, science, and English ; the classical instruction, with reference 
 to Trinity College entrance, 12760 ; combines commercial education with the rest as far as possible; 
 French taught after school hours and at extra charge, 12761-4. 
 
 Considerable difficulty in combining classical and commercial education, where pupils not all 
 going through both or same courses; but no difficulty if there were a second or assistant master ; 
 has no assistant, 12765-7 : manner in which arrangements could be made to obviate diflicultyin 
 giving combined education in same school, 12768-70 : importance of stmly of English ; would make 
 it essential and general; and thinks French should be taught to all, 12812-5, 12770-5. 
 
 As to obligation of Erasmus Smith masters to teach classics : terms of Charter ; never saw it, 
 nor rules; wishes for information on the subject, 12776-9. Has never been furnished by Board 
 of Governors with the Charter or any rules for his guidance in management of the school, and 
 they have never inspected it'; inspection of school, none, 12750-1, 12799-83, 12809. 
 
 Requirement of Charter rules as to religious instruction or catechising; never communicated 
 to him, 12783. Gives religious instruction every day to all scholars in schoolroom; and on 
 Sunday to boarders, 12784-92. Roman Catholic day scholars do not attend religious instruc- 
 tion, 12786-8. 
 
 Free scholars nil admitted and presented by Erasmus Smith Board only, 12793; have been in 
 some years no free pupils, 12793-8: notice issued by the Governors in 1854, as to application 
 for free places; introduction of free pupils at that time* five admitted in one half-year, 12799-808: 
 all reside in the town and within two miles, 12809-11. 
 
 Exhibitions for Trinity College, £8 to £12, altogether too small, valueless to the schools; 
 not worth while to study specially for them, and examination too difficult for boys of the age at 
 which they generally leave the school, 1281G; and have to compete in the same examination 
 with pupils of the Royal Schools whose Exhibitions are far more valuable (.£50, see A rmagh and other 
 Royal Schools) : wrote on the -subject to the Erasmus Smith Board of Governors, but received no 
 answer ; suggested that the Exhibitions should either be consolidated, and made fewer and more 
 valuable, or be given simply as rewards to boys who had gone through school for a certain 
 time with credit, so as to attract boys to the school ; success of English grammar schools from 
 emoluments to be given away, 12817-22. 
 
 Probable advantages of throwing open Exhibitions to wider competition, rather than restricting 
 them to jnirticular schools or classes of schools, 12823-7. 
 
 Endowments beneficial ; without them, schools like that of Drogheda could not be carried 
 on at all ; the town would not support it ; and without endowment he could not carry it on ; 
 thinks private enterprlze would not supply the want, 12828-31 : endowments induce persons of 
 superior standing and ability to become schoolmasters, and without them the office would fall 
 into inferior hands ; uncertainty of dependence on fees alone, 12832-8. 
 
 Evidence as to proprietary schools in England, and their success; diflxultics in the way of 
 proprietary schools in Ireland ; doubts whether Drogheda would support one : Dublin and Kings- 
 town might, and some of the large populous cities, 12S45-58. 
 See further as to particular school, under Drogheda. 
 Ladovize, Mrs. : endowment by. for education at Hollymount, Co. Mayo ; see Ho'.lymount. 
 Lafan, Rev. Michael, r p. and Roman Catholic Archdeacon, knows nothing of any school endow- 
 ment in Fethard, Co. Tipperary, G62 : — (see Fethard.) 
 Lalor, j\Ir., C'arlow ; as to payment by Mr. Murphy to a school in Carlow, 82 : (see Carlow.') 
 Vol. II. 3 X
 
 518 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Land attached to schools, for cultivation and recreation ; sec under names of respective schools. 
 Lands of Endowments, see Endowments, Estates, itc. 
 
 Lane, Jeremiah, Esq., M.B., should be 
 
 Lane, Rev. J., Master of Kiklare Diocesan School : Evidence of, as to state and causes of decline of 
 the school, itc, 13921 et seq.: (see under Naas.) 
 
 Laneshorough, Lady ; endowment for schools by : — 
 
 At Abbeyleix, Queen's Co. — Committee of House of Commons on Foundation Schools reported 
 (183.5) some revenue then unascertained attaching to Lady Lanesborough's charity school at 
 Abbeyleix, .'iOOO. — Letter from Rev. Thomas Nolan, r.P., Abbeyleix; no trace of it, 5100. — 
 Evidence of the Hon. and Rev. William Wini^field, E-ector of Abbeyleix ; has not heard of such a 
 school, 5101. — No longer in operation, 5113, 5116. 
 
 At Buttevant, Co. Cork. — Commissioners of Education reported in 1812, an endowment of school 
 at Buttevant in 1G98, by Lady Laneshorough, with a house, half acre of ground, and £20 per 
 annum for schoolmaster, 1153. Will of Lady Laneshorough ; her interest in the property on 
 which the bequest was charged, expired, 1151-2. 
 
 Languages, Ancknt : See Classics. 
 
 Languages, Modern : — 
 
 Utility and necessity of, in Education for Commercial and Mercantile pursuits ; and want of 
 greater facilities for acquisition of Omagli, Alexander, 11567-8, 11571-6, 11581-9. Bilfasl, Bryce, 
 10.350-4; Dunville, 10187,10491-2. Maryborough, Eutler,5139-40, 5153. Cfo/imc;, Malcomson, 
 10G2-77 ; Grubb, 1088-95. Limerick, Elnies, 2648-50. Enni^, King, 3889. Emmkillen, Trim- 
 ble, 11913; Greham, 11976-83. Gahrai/, Hallowell, 20206-15, 20233-5,21206-8. Linerick, 
 Revington, V220 et seq. ; Franldiu, 4612-50. ZoncZojicZ' iv;/, Escott, 10867-70, 10935-8. MaUingar. 
 Gibson, 13339 et seq.; Woodward, 13259-68, 13291-305. Meath Seminary, Power, 13039-43. 
 OxmanfowH, Duhlm, Hyndman, 22422-31 ; Brady, 22491-6 ; Le Pan, 22604-5, 22655-6. Mary- 
 borough, Q^isau, 5127-9. C'arrick-oti-Shan7ion, Cox, 6965-71. Sligo, Homan, 6695-9. 
 
 Larcamore and Ardvally, Co. Sligo ; auxiliary schools in connection with Killglass (see KUlglass) 
 654.5, 6550 et seq. 
 
 Latlurkeii National School, Mouaghan ; Mr. M'Kenna and Mr. M'Giuu's endowments for education in 
 Monaghan, claimed by Master of, 8603 et seq. (see references to these endowments, under Monaghan.) 
 
 La Tuuche, Rev. Digges, curate of Swords, Co. Dublin : Evidence of, as to Hewitson and Scardeville 
 Endowments, 20098-109 : knows nothing but what has appeared in the evidence, as to school 
 lands, 20099 ; has had no information from the rector, Hon. and Rev. Mr. Howard, as to lands left 
 for education, but has heard that the Economy Lands were left for purposes of charity, not educa- 
 tion, by Dean Scardeville, 20102-3. 
 
 Lawless, John, formerly a pupil in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin: Evidence of, as to Scrip- 
 tural instruction in the school, 14170 et seq. (see Suiorda.) 
 
 Layuien : — 
 
 Value and importance of lay agency in inspection and supervision of schools, and in domiciliary 
 vi.sitation ; Cork, Duuscombe, 2046, 2315-8. 
 
 Local Committees or Governors; Clergy, Sec. : — see under Governing Bodies, Jnspeclion, Clergy. 
 Leamy, William : School at Limerick endowed by ; see under Limerick. 
 Leases : — 
 
 Drumachose School, Erasmus Smith ; Lease with clause requiring instruction in Church Cate- 
 chism, page 317. 
 
 Gorey School, Erasmus Smith ; Lease with clause requiring instruction in the Scriptures, pa^re 32L 
 
 Lislee School; Lease under Lord Lieutenant's School Puud Commissioners, page 318. 
 
 Rathclaren School, Co. Cork ; Lease under Association for Dissountenancing Vice, page 320. 
 
 See under Estates, Commissioners of Educ.ition, Erasmus Smith Board, &c. 
 Led lives : — 
 
 Suggested establishment of, for popular instruction in various branches ; Kyle, 21270-4 ; Belfast, 
 Bruce, 10467. Cavan, Moore, 7878. 
 
 And see under Education, and names of Witnesses, Ac. 
 Lee, Rev. John, Honorary Secretary and Trustee of Green Coat Hosi)ital School at Cork : Evidence of, 
 and documents handed in by, in reference to that institution (see under Cork), 1931 el seq., 1984 et seq. 
 
 Legg, William, Esq., Head Master of Navan School (Preston Endowment), Co. Meath : Evidence of, as 
 to state and management of .the school, and causes of decline, 12878 et seq. 
 
 Course of instruction ; in classics the entrance course, and usual English branches, Euclid, algebra, 
 mensuration, 12890. Boys bring their own books', 12891. 
 
 School hours, ten to two; no other school in Irehind gives four hours only, 12958-67. 
 
 No inspection of school; an annual report or return to Clare-street Commissioners of Educa- 
 tion, 12887-9, 12908-9. 
 
 For improvement of school, suggests that c-Khibitions should be established, 12892, 12920-5, 
 12947-8 : would not object to Roman Catholic school being similarly endowed, 12949. 
 
 Other scliools in the neighbourhood, 12918-20: a large Roman Catholic school in Navan; 
 receives Protestant boys also, 12986-90. — (See further, under Navan.) 
 Leggatl, Patrick and Maria, master and mistress of Erasmus Smith School, atDonadca, Co. Kildare; 
 Petition to Erasmus Smitii Board for continuance of the salaries to the school, or for a pension to 
 themselves, having no other means of support, 13796. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Patrick Leggatt, master : — To same effect as the petition,a3 to amount, receipt, 
 and withdrawal of salaries, 13797-13809 : answer from the Board that they never grant pensions, 
 13810-1, 13880.— (Sec under D,nadea.)
 
 INDEX TO EVlDENCt:. 519 
 
 Legislation : — 
 
 Dillioiiltics ari.sin;; out of; Cavan, in re^arj io Rw/al Schools, 7827. Watwford Corporati(m 
 School, Alcock, 414-8 ; Elliott, 371-7. Tubrid, 12184. 
 
 State of, and difficulties as to erection, repair, and support of Diocesan Schools, (sec Diocesan 
 Schools), 73.'5C-7, 13121-2, 13128. 
 
 Acts in reference to Erasnuis Smith Schools and Endowments, 3823-7, 13789, 21094, 22825-32, 
 (sec under Erasmus Smith.) 
 
 Defective state of, in regard to powers of Bo'iuests Board, M'Donii'U, 23171 H seq. 
 
 Leitrim, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, ard state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Carrick-on-Shannon, GS04 H stq. 
 
 Leonard, Mr., Superior of Christian Brothers' Schools, Cork: — Return from, of endowment, income, 
 and number of pupils, ifec; education altogether gratuitous. Income, .£3G9; after deductions, net 
 income, £243. Numl)cr of pupils from 1,100 to 1,170, exclusive of Sunday schools; altogether 
 about 1,300 day scholars, 1242. — See under C rk. \ 
 
 Leonard, Thomas, Blue Coat School boj', and choir boy, Limerick : — Evidence of, (sec under Limerick,) 
 2951c<«f2. 
 
 Le Pan, Rev. Lewis A., Chaplain and Master of King Chas. II.'s Hospital, or Blue Coat School 
 Oxmantown, Oo. Dublin, 22581-657, 22659-61, 22682. 
 
 Nature of school instruction, 22647-56. No industrial occupation, as gardening, carpentry Ac, 
 22641-6. SI.,, 
 
 State of discipline of school, satisfactory; improvement as compared with its state on his ajipoint- 
 ment; elopements and barring out formerly, 22597-603. Studies and discipline best looked after 
 when due attention paid to boys' recreation, 22639-40. 
 
 Improvement in reports of examiners of boys advancement, noticed by Commissioners; and 
 results, a good and useful education iu branches at present taught, 22604-22057. 
 
 Extension of the course of instruction, to include modern languages, chemistry, natural philo- 
 sophy, drawing, would be a great boon, 22604-5, 22655-6. As to introduction of classics, desirable 
 if practicable; would involve an increase of school staff, already scarcely adequate, 22G0G-8, 2262.6, 
 22G55-G. 
 
 Monitorial system; objections to it, from interference with progress of the boys wlio are made 
 monitors; manner in which it may to some extent be adopted advantageously and without beino- 
 injurious, but system bad on the whole, 22609-14. 
 
 An orsianist for the institution; boys taught singing; desirableness of music and singing as part 
 ofschool system, 22615-23. 
 
 Examinations occasionally; how conducted ; prizes, 22624-33. Examinations for admission to 
 Government civil service, 22649-51. 
 
 See further as to particular School, under Oxmantoivn. 
 
 Leslie, Bishop ; endowment of School at Cloglier, Co. Tyrone, by, and by Chas I. and Bishop Garnett, 
 11635 el seq. : see Clojhcr. 
 
 Lewers, William, late master of Erasmus Smith School at Sturgan, parish of Killevy, Co. Armagh; 
 returns of numbers of children in attendance in two last half-j-ears (1849, 1850) during which the 
 school was open, 9314. 
 
 Still in possession of schoolhouse, but no sch<Jol kept, 9317; site conveyed in perpetuity for a 
 school, 9332. 
 
 Libraries (or use of Schools: — 
 
 Where established, nature and manngcmcnt of ; Ai"niagh Royid School, 9347, 9350, 9531-4. 
 Athhrne, advantage of school library, lland:igh Boys School, M'Namara, 7178-89. Cork, success 
 of school library. Christian Brothers' School, Duggan, 1271-4 ; Gretn Goat School, Scarson, 1826-38. 
 Enniskilhn Royul School. 11900. Farm, Falloon, 13642-51. Londonderry, Foyle School,^?.coit, 
 10795-6, 108U7- 8, 10797, 10930-4, 10941. Oxmantoion, Dublin, Kyle, 22575-6, 22638. Temple- 
 michael, Card, 7624-7. 
 
 Evidence in favour of the establishment of; Cavan, Moore, 7878. Ghnmel, Kettlewell, 818-9. 
 Duw/annon, Ringwood, 11803-8. Ennis, King, 3902-7, 3968. Londonderry, Escott, 10941. 
 Rajihoe, Steele, 1 1295-308. Kyle, 2 1270-4. 
 
 Lifford, Co. Donegal : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of 
 education in Co. Donegal, 11103 tt scq. 
 
 LIFFOKD GKAMMAR SCHOOL, CO. DOSEGAL. 
 
 Injormotion frcm Reports of previous Inquiries, kc: — 11115, 11405-14. Endowment by Sir 
 Richard Hansard, temp. Jas. I., for salaries of schoolmaster and usher; schoolhouse, 11405: for a 
 free school, 11407. Visitation in 184(J by Clare-street Commissioners of Education, and rcsignaj- 
 tion of their master, whose negligence had been subject of complaint, 11409-10. Subsequent 
 improvement in attendance at school ; number of pupils at various periods, 11411-4. 
 
 I'resent Inquiry. — Documents handed in by Mr. Chambers ; account of foundation and manage- 
 ment, 11415-6. 
 
 Evidence of Henry Stewart, Esq., Agent of Lord Erne, who inherited the Hansard Estates and 
 pays the schoolmaster and mistress, 11111 et seq., 11415, 11417 et seq.: as to schoolhouse and 
 J remises ; repairs, Ac, by Lord Erne, 11418-27 ; and school requisites, 11428. 
 
 Admission of free pupils, by curate and himself ; poor children, Protestants and Roman Catholics; 
 only those refused who are considered able to pay, 11429-35, 11446-9. 
 
 Yisitatlou ofschool by Church Education Society, the bishop. Lord and Ladj' Erne, 11442-5; 
 and weekly by the curate, 11450-1. 
 
 No great want of schools in the town and neighbourhood ; other schools near, 11436-41. 
 Vol. II. 3X2
 
 5-20 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Lilhurn, Mr., Dungaiinon ; letter from, complaining of die cost and management of Dungannon Royal 
 School, and treatment of free pupils, 11747 : — (See under Dungannon.) 
 
 Limerick, BisLop of : a.s to Blue School, Limerick, 2950 : as to Leamy School, Limerick, a trustee 
 of the school ; and letter to, from Mr. Uoratio Dain, London, as to remission of legacy duty on the 
 bequest of William Leam3', 3C65. — (Sec under Limerick.) 
 
 lAmerick, Dean of. Very Eev. Anthony Latouche Kirwan : see Kirwan. 
 
 Limerick, Co. and City of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; 
 evidence taken at Limerick, '2o\)7 et seq., 3208 et stq., 4146 et se<j. 
 
 Blue School or Blue Coat School ; and Mrs. Alicia Craven's Endowment for same, 2837 et seq., 
 3276 et seq., 3i9l et seq., 4651 et seq. 
 
 Diocesan School, 2416 et seq., 3208 et seq. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Endowment ; Southern Estates, 2406 et seq., 3759 et seq., 4467 et seq. 
 
 Xeamy School, 3662 et seq. 
 
 General State of Education and provision for same in Limerick and neighbourhood, 2397 et seq., 
 2643 et seq., 4146 et seq., 4612 ef seq., 4680 et seq. 
 
 BLUE SCHOOL OR BLUE COAT SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inqiiiri^s, ifcc. Nature and amount of Endowments, numbers 
 of pupils, &c. : litigation, 2t?37-42. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Henry O'Shea, Esq., Mayor of Limerick : is incapacitated, by 
 being a Roman Catholic, from being a trustee, 2401, 2405 : believes the school now a myth ; for- 
 merly boys seen about town in the dress, none now, 2401. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Joseph Mullin, master of the school. — In 1854, number of pupils, twelve ; now^, 
 three; cause of diminution; school unsatisfactory; merely for choir boys, who are dismissed or 
 leave when their voices change, 2846 et seq., 3200 et seq., 3433-6. Master (who was also principal 
 tenor at cathedral) resigned just before the inquiry; no master at time of it, 2860-4. As to 
 clothing or apprenticing the bo^'s, 2867, 2916-20, 3200-2. Absence of any proper inspection, 
 examination and catechising, 2926-49. 
 
 Evidence of Lord Bishop of Limerick : has left the management of the choir and school connected 
 w-ith it altogether to the Dean, 2950. 
 
 Evidence of Very Rev. Anthony Latouche Kirwan, Dean of Limerick, a trustee of the school, 
 3276 et seq. Visitation of school and examination of boys, 3281-2. Usually about five boys in 
 the school, 3278-80. Formerly pay pupils permitted, about nine, but got rid of as a nuisance, 
 3289-90. Original intention of the school, to teach boys to sing in the choir, 3294-9 : preference 
 for singing boys, and exclusion of pay pupils, notwithstanding low salary of master, 3301-10. 
 Question as to number of free pupils returned, 3311-37. Financial embarrassments and consequent 
 discontinuance of clothing, 3338. Unsatisfactory account of school, 3340 et stq. Examination and 
 catechising of the boys, 3386-3400. No free boys or blue boys in 1855 ; small number previously ; 
 in 1854, four, 3412-36. Further evidence as to combination of blue school with choir school, 3437 
 et seq. Houses left for use of blue school, in ruin.s, 3448 et seq. Neglect of the property and 
 management of school, 3472 ei seq. Defective education of boys ; unsatisfactory result of exami- 
 nation by a Commissioner, 3482. Subsequent statement in explanation of previous evidence, and 
 as to management of the school, 4653 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of four boys examined, as to school arrangements, hours, instruction, etc.- — Thomas 
 Leonard, 2951 et s?q. ; Thomas M'Auloy, 3059 et seq. ; Edward Iviniy, 3139 et seq. ; Stephen Goggin, 
 3181 et sfq. 
 
 Evidence of John Watson iMahony, Es(p, secretary, collector of rents, and agent, 3499 et seq. 
 Documents as to the original foundation, applicntion and management of endowments, and state of 
 funds, 3501-4. Dilapidated condition of house property, and inattention to it, 3509 et seq. Further 
 evidence as to finances and accounts, 3548 et see/., 3653 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Ralph Nash, book-keeper to Mr. Mahony, agent, &.C., as to nature of property, 
 condition of houses, rents, &c., 3615-52. 
 
 Henry O'Shea, Esq., Mayor, reads a letter from Mr. Mahony, as to future interests of the 
 charity, 4651. 
 
 Evidence of John Boyse, Esq., solicitor to the Blue Coat School, Limerick (Mrs. Alicia Craven's 
 Endowment), 3491-3498. Terms of will making the bequest, the only infornintion lie can give, 
 3493. 
 
 DIOCESAN SCHOOL, FOR LIMEEICK, KILLALOE, AND KILFKNORA. 
 
 Informntitm from Ji-'porl.'; of previous Inquiries, &c., 2416-28. In 1821, grant by Graiul Juries 
 of Connty and City for building schoolhouse, but not yet issued, 2419: in 1827, no schoolliouse 
 jjrovidod, house renteil by master, the jirevious house having fallen into decay ; creation (jf a. build- 
 ing fund liy Grand Juries, 2420 ; representation, in 1833, of impediments in the way of founding 
 and establishing diocesan schools, particularly that of Limerick, 2422-3 : of eighteen dioceses or 
 districts, only eight jirovided with cH'ective schools, 2423. Dilliculty of providing for rejiairs, from 
 indisposition of Grand Juries to present money, 2424: buil(lin;.'s become dilapiclatcd and ruinous, 
 2425. Recommendation in 1850, for inspection of diocesan schools, 2426. Schools not effective, 
 from objectiotiabje mode of pajing n)aster.s and from dilapiilated state of buildings, there being no 
 funds for repairs beyond any voluntary provision by Grand Juries, 2427. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — dommunicaiion from Committee of G rand J ury, complaining of manner of con- 
 ducting the .school ; agreement by master to educate twenty free scholars without religious distinc- 
 tion, to be nominated l)y Grand Jury ; grants made by the latter on this condition, 2430. Suitable 
 building for a largo school, cont:iiiiing forty bed.s, not occujiiod ; small number of free scholars, 
 two or three only if any ; assistant masters, one for classics at £2 a month, one for science at £1 a 
 month, one for French at £1 a month, 2431.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 521 
 
 Limerick : — Diocfsan tSrlionl for Limerick, Killaloe, aii<l Kilfenorn — continual. 
 
 J'Uiid-ncc of llcnri/ CfHiica, Esq., Mayor of Limerick : iioufiilfiliiir'nt of condition of Oiaiul •Tury 
 gnuit tliiit twenty frco .sclioiarM nominated l)y tlioiu, of dilferent religiouB denominations without 
 distinction, slionid be admitted, 2399. 
 
 Mtinorial from Bishop and Clergy (A Diocese of Killaloe and Kilfenora, requesting that tlicir 
 contriliutions to tlic District School, from which they derive no hcnefit, may he ajiplied to a separate 
 .school for that diocese, pcijc 301. 
 
 KeiJence of Rer. John Jloe/e/, head master, 2433, 2582, 2G32-3, 2CS0-1, 2827-30. Number of 
 pupils live, one boarder and four day scliolar.s, no free pupils, 243G-8 ; and five masters besides 
 liimself, 2471-S. School linilt by presentment, has himself spent £400 on it, 2439-42, 2479-80, 
 2551-G3 : amount of school accommodation sufficient for thirty-five or thirty-eight, 244-5-9. 
 
 Free j)upils ; numbers in prcv'ous years, 1838 to 1849, from four to eleven, 24.50-0 : ri"lit of 
 nominatin!^ free ]iupils in trustees apjiointed by Grand Jury, not exercised by them ; has been 
 exercised by liimself at instance or recommendation of the Bishop and Archdeacon, 2457-71 : order 
 of Grand Jury for provision for twenty free pupils, without religious distinction, 2400. 
 
 Course of instruction, entrance course of Trinity College, and commercial and mercantile education 
 2481-2, 2400-5. Success of pupils in after-life, 2444, 2482-3, 2495-0. Religious instruction and 
 catccbising, 2827-35. 
 
 Causes of falling ofi'of the scliool, and of small number of free pupils, 2443, 248.3-9, 2495-2510 • 
 other schools and educational wants of Limerick, 2511-78, 2548-50. Examination of boys in tiie 
 school not satisfactory for their length of time in it, 2519-44. State of jieallh of the master, as 
 bearing on his efiiciency in conducting the school, 2504-71. Communications produced by him as 
 to management of school, 2574-82. 
 
 Insjiection of school, none ; half-yearly and other examinations, 2572-3. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Moore, Rector of St, Patrick's, Limerick, 25S3-2G31 : has had two 
 boys at the diocesan school; his opinion of its management favourable, 2584-90,2601-7,2031. 
 Causes of its falling off, partly its distance out of the town, while there are good scdiools nearer and 
 within it, partly the master Jlr. Hogg's illness, 2579-2000, 2GU7-19, 2021-31 : lallinc oft' of 
 other schools, 2(320, 2030. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Thomas Elmes, Curate of Killcaly ; keeps a school, a competitor of Mr. Hogg's ; 
 favourable opinion of management and instruction in his school, but never personally iu it, 2034-42. 
 Mr. Elracs' college career, and experience and success in teaching, 2035, 2G43-4. Always gives 
 a classical and commercial education ; no objection to combining them, ought to bo combined, 
 2044-5. Further evidence on this subject; course of such instruction detailed, 204G el seq. 
 
 Ecidence of George Vandejeur, Esq., J.P., Chairman of Committee of Grand Jury on the school : 
 evidence unfavourable to conduct of the diocesan school ; dis.satisfoction prevailing; and want of 
 better means of education at Limerick ; want of due provision for free pupils, 2682 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas M'Grath, Esq., classical assistant in diocesan school ; as to general arr.inse- 
 nients and course of instruction there, 2727 et seq. 
 
 Evidenee if the Very Rev. Anthony I^atouche ICirwan, Dean of Limerick : favourable opinion 
 of Mr. Hogg and of his scho(d management ; cause of falling oft' of the school, dejircssion of the 
 times and inability of persons to send their children to school. 3208 et seq. Other schools in 
 neighbourhood referred to, 3228-40. 
 
 Evidence of Arthur Ifiiiry D'Esterre, Esq., surgeon, formerly a pupil in diocesan school under 
 ^Ir. Hogg, and has had three brothers there : formerly from fifty to eighty boys, or more ; hi<;h 
 ojiinion of the school ; cannot assign any direct cause for its falling oft'; ftuctuation of schools^and 
 desire of changing from one to another, 3242 et seq. 
 
 LEAMY SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from previous Inquiries, &c. — Large bequest by "William Leamv for education of 
 poor children in and about Limerick ; litigation to recover property, which had got into hands of 
 persons in London ; costs and Chancery scheme of management, 3G02-3. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Will, 3003. Letter from Francis Kearney, complaining of the intention of 
 the founder of the Lcamy Free School not being carried into effect, the school being not for general 
 education but altogether Protestant, to the exclusion of Roman Catholics, though founder's family 
 were Roman Catholics, 3063. 
 
 Evidence of Lord Bishop of Limerick, a trustee of the school, and letter from Mr. Horatio Dain, 
 London, as to applying for remission of legacy duty on the bequest, 3065. 
 
 Evidence o^' Mr. .Joseph Hosford, master of Leamy School, 3060-3758. Number of jiupils, 144 
 or 145 males and females, of all denominations, Protestants, Dissenters, and Roman Catholics; 
 out of 145, fifty-five Roman Catholics, 3009-72, 3693-4. Formerly 203, and 171 : causes of 
 diminution of pupils ; opposition, and Monks' school lately set up, and model school, etc., 3074-84. 
 
 Course of instruction; English, geographj^ book-keeping, mensuration, geometry, 3701-12. 
 Religious instruction, its natni-e and how managed, 3085-3700. Supply of books," maps itc 
 3713-9. No library, for want of fund.?, 3753. 
 
 Inspection of school by its governors ; and examination or catechising of pupils, 3720-34. 
 
 Admission, by master with or without recommendation ; no regulations or orders, but printed 
 form of inquiry as to state of bodily health, 3735-9. 
 
 Discipline, ifcc. ; no flogging ; hours ten to three, without interval for recreation ; no play- 
 ground, 3740-0. Irregularity of attendance of children, from povertj' ; wouhl not like liimself "to 
 go to school on a hungry belly ; attendance would be better if there were a charge, but payment 
 not to be insisted on, 3747-52. Career and success of pupils in after-life, 3754-7. 
 
 Evidence of Henry O'S'hea, Esq., Mayor of Limerick ; Protestant and Roman Catholic Bishops, 
 trustees of Leamy School, 2400.
 
 522 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Limerich — continued. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH ENDDWMEKT ; SOUTHERN' ESTATES. 
 
 Previous Inqtiiries, and reports thereof; particulars ot estates, 2406, 2408. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Thomas Kearney, Esq., County Surveyor, Agent of Southern 
 Estates of Erasmus Smith Board, 44''7-4Gll. liental, and extent of Limerick and Tipperary 
 estates, 4470-7, 4.313, 4536 et seq. Only one school on the Limerick estate, that at Pallas (see 
 Pallasgreen), 447S-9. Two schools on Tipperary estate (see Ahhey School and English School, 
 under Tipperary), 4482-6. No agricultural instruction on Limerick or Tipperary estates, and 
 nothing done to iniyjrove the system of agriculture, 4480-1, 4487-9. Particulars of sj'stem of 
 agriculture practised, and general manageuient of estates, 4493 et seq. 
 
 Clothing; directions of governors to supply clothing to best boys in Tipperary school, 4.509-12. 
 
 Rental and income of estates, and amount expended for education in County Limerick, 4513-4 
 et seq., 4536 et seq. Arrears of rent due by tenants, 4524-30, 4586 et seq. Himself a yearly tenant 
 on the estate, 4532-5. 
 
 Further evidence as to nature of his duties, management and extent of visitation of estates, 
 4569 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Richard Burke, Clerk of Mr. Kearney, Agent of Erasmus Smith Southern 
 Estates; 3759-3809,4562-4568. Produces books ; rental and account current, 3760-3. Amount 
 of rental of the Limerick estate, arrears thereof, amounts received and remitted to the Erasmus 
 Smith Boar<l, abatements to tenants, allowances or remission of arrears, and other particulars, 
 3764-72. Particulars as to the Tipperary estute, 3773 et S'q. The agent, Mr. Kearney, a 
 tenant on the estate; his rent, arrear, and abatement or allowances, 3779-87: other tenants to 
 whom no abatement allowed, 3788-90. No leases ; Mr. Kearney tenant from year to year, 
 3792-.': ; only lialf or quarter of an arre of his land sublet to an under tenant, 3791. Arrears in 
 particular cases, 3772, 3782, 3790, 3796, 3798-3800 ; and in case of the schoolnrastcr under the 
 Board, at the Abbey school of Tipperary, no arrear in the book, but in a document received from 
 previous agent, 3803-5 ; got no books from previous agent on termination of his agency, 3805-8. 
 Gross receipts on southern estates, Tipperary and Limerick ; reductions and net receipts, 4562-8. 
 
 Evidence of Henry O'Shea, Esq., Mayor of Limerick, 2397 et seq., 2407 et seq. : representation 
 from Corporation as to necessity for inquiring into application of endowment, and as to its being 
 not properly appropriated to locality of Limerick, 2397-2404. Management of estates ; nature 
 of leases, 2407 et seq. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION AND PROVISION FOR SAME IN LIMERICK AND NEIGHBOURnOOD. 
 
 Evidence of Henry O'Shea, Esq., Mayor of Limerick ; — Summary of various schools in and about 
 Limerick ; insufficient education afforded out of Erasmus Smith Endowment in the county; great 
 want of good schools for middle and upper classes, and of classical education ; the poor well provided 
 for, 2397-2405, 2412. 
 
 Evidence of liev. Thomas Elmes, Curate of Rillcaly and master of a private school : — Extent 
 of Education and means for it in Limerick ; it does not begin early enough ; advantages of com- 
 bined classical and commercial education ; no objection to the combination ; ought alwaj's to be 
 combined, 2644-2679 : — (evidence as to Diocesan School, see above.) 
 
 Eviden<:e of Archihald Murray, Esq., a partner in firm of Todd and Co.: deficiency of commercial 
 education in Limerick : Limerick boys less fitted by education for situations than boys from the 
 country, who are found to be more r.seful and better educated for commercial purposes, 4149 etseq. 
 Young men better educated in Scotland than in Ireland, 4173. Greater facilities for good com- 
 mercial education in Limerick would be a great benefit to trade and commerce, 4174 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas Revington, Esq., employing sevent}' or eighty young men in a large estab- 
 lishment at Limerick, 4214-7. Defective commercial education ; importance of foreign languages; 
 value of a school of design ; excellence of education in some English schools, as Greenwich, Bir- 
 mingham, &.C., 4220 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of William Franklin, Esq-, Manager and Inspector of Limerick Branch of Provincial 
 Bank ; — as to qualifications recpiircd in young men for the bank ; submitted to examination ; im- 
 portance of good education for commercial life, and of modern languages ; want of good practical 
 schools in Limerick for combined classical and commercial education ; easily practicable, 4C12-50. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William Burke, Roman Catholic administrator of St. John's parish. Limerick: 
 as to general state of education, a- d provi^;ion for same, in Limerick, 4680-4729. 
 
 Existing schools for advanced education for middle classes in Limerick ; one conducted by two 
 clerg3'mcn, for classical and commercial education, with modern languages, under the best teachers, 
 a large school, from 90 to 100 boys or more; sent a boy recently to London, where he passed 
 a strict examination for a government appointment : Christian Brothers' school also gives a capital 
 mercantile education, with great success ; at the same time, does not say the education of tho city 
 is as good as it ought to be, 4681, 4729 : a very considerable number, to his own knowledge, from 
 those schools, csi)ecially the first, have obtaine<l situations in largo mercantile establishments; tho 
 boys of the Christian Brothers' school are generally of humbler classes, and go into shops and 
 stores at small wages at first, and get on ; pupils from the other school have gone to college, 
 Carlow, Mayuooth, and to Government situations; well fitted for commercial life, 4682 3. 
 
 E lucation of tho lower cl.asses good, but they are taken away to labour as soon as ])ossiblo ; 2,000 
 children in the Monks' schools ; their education docs not make them unfit for manual labour or ilissa- 
 tisfied, but the contrary ; about 800 in eight National schools of which he is patron ; Sisters of 
 Mercy have about 1,500 more; great desire for education amongst the lower orders, 4684-92. 
 Total numbers of boys and girls at schools, about 7,000 or 8,000 out of 45,000 or 46,000 popula- 
 tion, 4715-8. 
 
 No means of promoting boys in the schools to higher classes ; want of a higher school, to wliich 
 free pupils showing talent could bo sent and have opportunity of furth'jr cultivation and advance- 
 ment, 4693-4700. Persons of middle and upper classes have been educated in tho .Monks' and
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 523 
 
 Limerick : — General ^'Intu of Education, &c. — continued. 
 
 National schools ; but there is a want; and not sufficient school accommodation for the lowest 
 classes ; ])art occupied by jjcrsnns who could pay ; some advantage will be derived fi'oni t!ic model 
 school, but one will be; iusnlUciont ; well-managed schools at moilerate payment for good education 
 would he supported by niiildle and upper classes, and would relieve the schools for poorer classes ; 
 want of higher schools, 4701-13, 4719-23. 
 
 Considerable and beneficial eficct of tlirowiug open Government apiK)iutnients to competition ; 
 a great imj)etus to education, 4724-6. 
 
 Linen-hall School, Dublin : Evidence of Mr. Barlow ami Rev. Hugh Hamilton ; see under Erasmus 
 Smith Boird. 
 
 Lislee School : Lease under Lord Lieutenant's School Fund Commissioners, 'P'.iije 318. 
 lAsnaboe, Co. Longford ; Boys and Girls School : — 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Joseph Gill, master. — Appointed by Kev. James Mitchell : formerly only a male 
 school ; grant of money by mother of Mr. Mitchell for girls school, and wing added, 7(J45-8. 
 
 Instruction ; reading, writing, arithmetic, book-keeping, mensuration, and lately geography; no 
 English grammar, 7Gj9-71. Average of boys from 130 to 150 heretofore, 7G49 ; number at 
 present, thirty-four boys, thirty-eight girls, 76.34. Falling ofl" ascribed to evictions, emigration, and 
 withdrawal of Roman Catholic children to a Roman Catholic school, 7651. 
 
 Master has a farm of thirty-six acres and four acres attached to schoolhonso ; no assistant in 
 school ; had nouewlien he had 120 boys; employs advanced boys as monitors; no inspection of 
 schools, but occasional examination of boys in Scriptures by curate : no industrial employment ; 
 does not question the lioys at all ; did not hear mi.stakes in reading ; has been deaf forty-tivc years, 
 worse lately, 7672-98. 
 
 Lisnaskm, Co. Fermanagh; Moate School, 12231. 
 
 Litigation ; and expenses of, and loss or diminution of endowments from : — ■ 
 
 Aghadu, Townsend, 1141. Clonmel, 707-12. Cork, Moses Bmhcs Endowment, 2035, 2164-6, 
 2185-7, 2259. Down pat rid; Harrell, 9S19-G2, 9870. Bull;/ i dams, Queen's Co. Elliott, 5076-90.' 
 Kilkenny, Evxns Endnvm-nf, Browne, 1 44. Kilmiadsn, Bourke, 330. Limerick, Leamij School, 
 3662-3. Londonderry, Foyle College, 10764. Midlslon, Co. Cork, 17607-15, 17612-5 ; exhibitions 
 swallowed up in litigation, Ijut since restored, 17615. Monaderevan, Moore, 13895 et seq. Waterford 
 Corporation School, Price, 196-9 ; Alcock, 252, 257; Elliott, 371-7. Wicklow, Eaton Bequest. 13786. 
 
 And see under Endoicmenis, Estates, Commissioners of Education, ErasmiLs Smith Board, and 
 names of respective Schools. 
 
 Little, Catherine, Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; evidence of as to employment of school 
 girls by schoolmistress to work for herself, 15471 et seq.: — see under Swords. 
 
 Loam from Consolidated Fund, for repairs and impro vements of schoolhouses ; Banagher Royal School, 
 5270 : and see other schools. 
 
 Local Bodies, or Committees, for supervision of Schools ; see under Governing Bodies, Inspection, &c. 
 Localities : — 
 
 Endowments for schools or pupils from particular estates, parishes, towns, or other localities ; see 
 under the respective names. 
 
 Schools in unsuitable localities, and want of them elsewhere ; BaUyroan, Lyon, 4S61-S ; Bland 
 4897-8-9 ; Talbot, 5205-6 ; Butler, 5145, 5154-5. ' 
 
 Power required to remove schools to other localities and establish new ones ; Bishop of Dovm 
 10480-1. • i J > 
 
 Lombard-street school premises : evidence of Mr. Barlow (see under Erasmus Smith Board,) 19674. 
 
 Londonderry, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education • evidence 
 taken at Londonderry, 10556 et seq. 
 
 Diocesan School, orFoyle College; and Endowments for Schools by the Irish Society, 10751 ct seq. 
 
 Gwyn's Charitable Institution, 11034 et seq. 
 
 General state of education and provision for same, 11003 et seq. 
 
 DIOCESAN SCHOOL, OR FOYLE COLLEGE. 
 
 Information from R.ports of previous Inquiries, kc, 1075 1-62, 10764 :— Means of support, chiefly 
 from contributions of clergy, London Companies, and Irish Society; number of scholars and free 
 scholars at various ])eriods, and other particulars, 10751 et seq. Diliieulty as to keeping diocesan 
 
 schoolhou-s 
 
 so 
 
 es in repair in present state of law, the Grand Juries objecting to make presentments 
 10759. Litigation with Irish Society, and recommendation of London Corporation Commissioners 
 for its dissolution and new management, 10764. Question whether the contributions by Irish 
 Society are a voluntary grant, or endowment or trust for education, 10751, 10763 10767. 
 
 Present Inquiry .-—Returns from Irish Society, and Clare-street Commissioners of Education 
 10765-6. ' 
 
 William Hazlett, Esfi-, j.p.. Manager of Bank at Londonderry : — Letter from, 10766 ; pamphlet 
 handed in by, 10763 ; evidence, and written statement given in evidence, 10767 et seq. ^Vant of 
 endowment for the Diocessjn School of Londonderry, 10766-7, 10770. Subscriptions formerly 
 from London Companies, now withdrawn, 10767. Old endowments in laiul, for a free school kept 
 by Irish Society in their own hands, 10770 ; intention of Crown to provide by endowment' for a 
 free school frustrated by Irish Society ; but funds considered to be a trust fund ; Irish Society 
 consider their grants voluntary, 10771 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William Escott, JTaster : — At present thirty-eight d.ay scholars twelve free 
 pupils ; chiefly Church of England, some Presbyterians, one Roman Catholic, 10781-8. Xo 
 objection on religious grounds, 10789,10819-20.
 
 524 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Londonderry, Diocesan School or Foylc College; Rev. Mr. Escott's evidence — continued. 
 
 Instruction given remarked by Commissioners as verv_excelleut, 10S79 ; domestic arrangements 
 for boarders very satisfactory, 108.53-9. 
 
 Course of instruction ; some boys for Trinity College, some for Belfast College, some receiving 
 comMiorcial education, but greater proportion classical, 1U794 : combination of classical and English 
 or commercial education in same school easily managed 1)y a little arrangement to prevent clashing 
 of classes; arrangements detailoil, 108G0 e< s'j- Importance of modem languages; French and 
 German, and natural history, should be taught, 10SG7-70, 10935-S. 
 
 Inadequaeyof presentsclioolstaff for agoodcombinedclassicaland commercial education for enlarged 
 number of boys, lOSG.ii-S, 10871-4. Extent and nature of scliool accommodation ; could receive 
 seventj' or eight}' boys, 10840-52, 1094-3 ; at present thirty-eight day scholars, 10784 ; number of 
 boarders and day scholars at various periods, 107G0-2. 
 
 Want of funds for improvement of school arrangements, 10940 ; no fund for repairs ; particulars 
 in wliicli they are much required, some parts going to ruin, 10790, 10940. Expenses in repairs, 
 &c., whicb have been paid by himself, 10892-4 ; by Irish Society, 10790, 10824-7, 10929. 
 
 Income, deduction, and net salaries of master and assistants, 108G6, 10871-2, 10880-92 ; 
 nothing for master excc|)t what he gets from piipils, which is not much, 10892. Importance of 
 the endowment, without which the school could not be kept up in its present efficiency, 10S9G-8. 
 
 Charge for day scholars, eight guineas a-year ; thinks it .sliould not be much lower ; probable 
 effects of lowering it, which might be objectionable, 10914-5, 10919-23. 
 
 Free pupils, twelve, 10785 ; average numbers, 10808-1 1. Free boys appointed by Irish Society, 
 through their treasurer or agent, from respectable classe-s, persons in good trade, kc, 10812-8 ; as 
 to free places for clergymen's sons, 10917-8. 10939. Mercers' Company (the only company who 
 continue their contribution to the school) give £50 a-ycar, for which they nominate two boarders, 
 who pay only i'lO a-ycar; no gain to the scliool, 10942-4, 10976-7. Competition for free places 
 by examination instead of mere nomination would be very beneficial, 1090G-13 : if thrown open 
 to all and given for merit on examination, would obviate any objection to children of higher ranks 
 of life mixing with those of humbler, and prevent any stigma attaching to the latter, 1090G-18. 
 
 Exhibitions or scholar.ships ; five attached to Foylc College, of £30 each, by Irish Society ; 
 should be put on footing of the Royal Schools, which have £50 ; cfl:cct of these exhibitions most 
 beneficial, 10899-905. 
 
 Inspection or visitation of school : Iiy the Bishop several times, by the Irish Society once a year, 
 and nature of inspection, 10792, 1082i-8. Reports or returns to the Bi.shop, 10793-4, 10832-3, 
 10837-8. Examination of boys twice a-year i)y some person whom the master gets to do it, 
 generally a clergyman of the neighbourhood, or a sizar or scdiohir recently from Dublin ; no examina- 
 tion on part of Irish Society, 10828-36. 
 
 Prizes of medals and books given to boys according to good marks on these examinations, 
 10834 ; much valued and effect useful ; provided by master ; matter mentioned to the Irish 
 Society, but no grant from them for the purpose, and no reply, 10924-8. 
 
 Library attached to the college, left by Bishop King ; for use of clergy and gentry of the diocese ; 
 chieflya theological library, and valuable ; rarely referred to by clergy, never by lay gentry, 10795-6, 
 10807-8. Also a .small school library for the scholars who subscribe to it, 10797 : subscription 
 2s. 0(/. a-ycar, voluntary, but all the boys pay ; no grant from Irish Society towards it, 10930-4 : 
 would be a good thing to increase the school library and gr.mt models or drawings for tlie boys 
 to copy, 10941. 
 
 Endcnce of William Green, Esq., Agent of Irish Society and Treasurer of Foylc College, 
 10947-8. Nomination of free pupils left by the Society to him without particular instructions 
 from or report to them, 10949, 10952-8. Principle upon which boys are selected by him for free 
 places ; sons of poor but respectable people, not well aide to pay for so good an education as they 
 ou "lit to have, 10950-1. Free boj's receive instruction as day scholars only, 109G3 : but Mercers' 
 Company, who contribute £50 a-year, send two pupils as boarders, who pay £10 a-year each, 
 selected by agent of that Company's property in Ireland, 10963-7 ; Mercers' grant no gain, 10942, 
 10976-7. 
 
 Acts as Treasurer of Foylc College, under an Act of Parliament of Geo. III., which he has 
 never seen, 10948, 109-59 ; has very slight funds ; formerly subscriptions from various comjianies ; 
 all disconlinucd excc])t that of Mercers' Company ; Irish Society's subscription £280, and £150 
 for five exhibitions, 10959-62. Surplus funds of Iri.sh Society and their ai>plication, 10997-11002. 
 
 Prevalent opinion in the Irish Society that they had power to make or withdraw grants at 
 pleasure, 10970- 1. Persons selected for free places, generally- connected with the estate of the Society, 
 but not always, and some from Donegal and .\rmagli, recommended liy parties connected with the 
 estate, 10980-5. Apjilications rarely or never refused, because the class of lads eligible is generally 
 understood, and those thought not to be eligible do not ajqily, 10978-9. As to selection of candi- 
 dates by examination ; doubtful whether it wcmld answer the jiurposo, the object being to assist 
 tiiose in reduced circumstances but require education they arc nut able to ]).iy for; limited to that 
 class, the selection of best answerers for free places might be advantageous and would counteract 
 any rellcction on ground of their being fi-cc pupils, 10986-9G. 
 
 Evidence of Sir Robert Alexander Ferguson, Bart., m.p. for City of Londonderry, as to geweral 
 state of education and provision for same in the neighbourhood, 11003-33. 
 
 Deficiency in facilities for education of middle classes, and even for mercantile education ; want of 
 sufficient funds for the Foyle College, or diocesan and free school united, and neither amount nor 
 quality of education given which is required ; iiisulhciency of that institution alone, even if its 
 funds were adequate, 11005. 
 
 Want of intermediate schools, above the National schools, for middle and niercantile classes, 
 11006. General want in Ireland of intermediate schools between those for classical education and 
 tiie lower one.f ; dilliculties apprehended in regard to combination of classical and mercantilo 
 education in same school ; but instances of combination under ono master rcferrtd to, 11027-32.
 
 INDEX TO KN'IDENCE. 525 
 
 Lo'iuliiHihrri/ — continued. 
 
 " Diminution of sclioola in iiciirlibonrliood of Loinlonderry, and education of clerks and mercantile 
 classes detcrionitinj;, 11008-14. Measures conteniplatoil for cvcnin;^ instruction for young men, 
 reading room, lectures, Ac, 1101/5-21. JJoys sent to Jurming acliooi at Teniplemoyle, from belief 
 tliat the English eilucation there is better than in Londonderrv, llOlii. Other endowments for 
 education at Londonderrv besides Foyle College; Gwyn institutir)n, 11021; and endowment 
 bcfjueathed liy a merchant named .Toseidi Young for a sdiotd for girls, not available, 11021-5. 
 
 (IWVN OIIARtTABI.K INSTITUTION. 
 
 A school in nrighbourhood of Londonderrv, endowed by a merchant named Gwyn, for boys, 
 11021. 
 
 Evidence of I'ill Skiploii, Esi|., Secretary of the Institution, 110.3t-.5. — Will, anil Act of 
 Parliament in 1830, under whicli the Institution is established and conducted, 11101-2. Its 
 management, by trustees ; iiamel}', the bishop, first Presbyterian clergyman, ex-ollicio, aud 
 merchants appointed from the burgesses by the tri'stees themselves, wdio also a])point five of 
 themselves as a committee of management, the committee reporting ijuarterly to th(^ trustees 
 generally, 1101:2-4, 1 10(M. Bovs boarded, clotheil, educated, and generally apprenticed, 11045. 
 11051. " E.xpenscs about £l,f00 a-year, with £8(1(1 of debt, 1101)8-1). Number of boys, 7(j ; but 
 trustees have resolved to reduce the number to 72, until debt paid oU'and expenses brought within 
 £l,C00aycar, 11036. 
 
 Mode of selecting boys, by the trustees; from what classes aud localities, and from all religious 
 persuasions; Roman Catholiiw generally double the number of E])iscopalians aiul Presbyterians, 
 110:;7-41. 
 
 Course of Education. English siiuplv, to prepare them as tradesmen and sailors; under the will, 
 navigation to be taught, and any wishing are prepared for sea; mensuration, book-keeping; 
 industrial oecujiation, tailoring, shoemaking, work in the garden and in keeping the house clean 
 and orderly', 1104G-5G, 110U3. When old enough, generally apprenticed, llOOl. 
 
 Museum attached to Institution, but not belonging to it ; instruction given in zoology and botany, 
 vrith benolicial results, 11057-02. 
 
 Good answering of boys on examination; eligibility as apjirenticcs, 11080; and yet a feeling 
 against them, and its causes ; no fee, which masters get in other cases, 11079 ; and apprehension of 
 interference of trustees, 11080. 
 
 Mode of selecting for apprenticeshi]», 11081-2, 11095-G ; after-conduct of apprentices, 11075- 
 80; visitation of apprentices quarterly, or half-yearly if at a distance; recorded in a book, and 
 apprentices appear every six months before the committee; premiums awarded on satisfactory 
 reports at termination of apprenticeship, 1108C-'Jl, 1101)0-7. 
 
 Internal arrangements of school : — Stock-book ; account of receipts and expenditure of material.s, 
 clothing, A'c., under charge of matron, 11100-1. (3reat cleanliness of dormitories, passages, <fec. 
 generally, 110G4-6 : but schoolroom not in a proper state of cleanliness, and very oflensive; had 
 been occasionally washed, though not once annually; but smell not from dirt, 11007-74. Sevcnty- 
 si.x boarders with fifteen or eighteen wash basins amongst them, and a wooden trough, 11083-5. 
 Long, William, Esq., Treasurer and a Trustee of Green Coat Hospital, Cork : evidence of, 193G-1983 . 
 
 particulars of the estate, income, and expenditure of the institution, 1950-1983. 
 Longford, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken 
 at Longford, 74G0 et scq. 
 
 Diocesan schools formerly at Longford, and at Trim, Co. Meath ; and sale of the property, page 
 301 : see Gtegorg. 
 Jjongford, St. Johnstown ; school endowment by Sir .James Ware, 74G0 : — see Johnstown. 
 Lord Lieutenant's Fund : 
 
 Account of, IIGG, 2342, GOSO, G841, 973G, 105G7-72, 13G7G. Lord Lieutenant's School Fund ; 
 a Parliamentary grant in 1819, by which the Lord Lieutenant was enabled to issue sums from 
 Consolidated Fund in aid of Schools established by subscription : amounts of grants in years 1819 
 to '24 ; management of fund, under honor.ary Commissioners for the purpose; no instructions to 
 Commissioners as to principles of administration of the fund : conditions of grant generally required 
 a grant of land in perpetuity, put into safe hands ; not conlined to particular religious denomina- 
 tions ; leases made to Jlinister and Churchwardens generally; and to Roman Catholic clergymen, 
 or private lay trustees ; many of the schools established by parochial clergy ; many, after being 
 built, adopted by Association for Discountenancing Vice, and by Society for Education of the Poor, 
 many have become parochial schools : mode of ap])lication for grant; inquiries made as to quantities 
 of land to be granted, itc. : on grant of land being mide, and house built, money paid ; aud lease 
 or conveyance lodged with the Commissioners ; amounts received and exi)endcd for such purposes, 
 llGG, 9t3G. 
 
 Form of Lease of School under Lord Lieutenant's School Fund Commissioner.';, Lislec School, 
 page 318. 
 
 Grants from, or Schools endowed under : 
 
 Aglish, Co. Mayo, not in operation, G080-2. 
 Altana, or Attanagh,Durrow, Queen's Co., 4738-4744. 
 Annadufl', Co. Leitrim, not in operation, G920. 
 Pallymacbrenuan, Co. Down, now a National School, 9699. 
 Ballymacward, Co. Galway, not in opei-ation, G0G7-72. 
 Ballyrobin and Killcad, Co. Antrim, 10300. 
 Boardwell, Queen's Co., not in operation, 5113, 5116. 
 Bryansford, Co. Down, 97GG, 97G8. 
 Carrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim, 6841, 6843. 
 Castlebar, Co. Mayo, 6107-8-10. 
 Coolrain, Queen's Co., 5113-5116. 
 Corawalleen, Drumreilly, Co. Leitrim, 6914-6. 
 Vol. II. 3 Y
 
 526 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; Grants or Schools under, — cor.iinueiJ. 
 Donaclea, Co. Kildare, 13793-5. 
 Durrow, Queen's Co., 4738-44. 
 Holywell, Co. Roscommon, 745.3-9. 
 Killead, Co. Antrim, 10300 et seq. 
 Killerniogli, Queen's Co., 5104 et seq. 
 Knaptown, Queen's Co., 5113, 511G. 
 Knockdrin, or Monelea, Co. Westnieatli, 13095-6-7. 
 Malieracluney, Co. Monaglian, 9300-1. 
 Maryborough, Queen's Co., 5113, 5116. 
 Newbridge, Co. "Wicklow, 13748. 
 Oatland.s, Co. Cork, 1165-7, 1147. 
 Offerkue, Queen's Co., 5113, 5116. 
 lieyuolla, Co. Westnieatli, 13090-1. 
 Saintfield, Co. Down, 9744. 
 Sligo, Knox-strect school, 6676-80. 
 Stephenstown, Co. Louth, 12237-45. 
 Turin, Co. 'Westmeath, 13101. 
 Turlough, Co. Mayo, 6107. 
 
 Schools for which grants made, but not now in operation, 5113-6, 10567-72. 
 And see under Names of respective Schools or Localities. 
 Loss of Endowments ; see under Endowments. 
 Loiighrea, Co. Gahv.ay ; School in Pigott's-Iane : 
 
 Information from reports of previous inquiries, kc, 5406-7. 
 
 Letter from Mr. Michael C. Hogan, master; one-fourth of building which forms the endowment 
 of Pigott's-lane school, Loughrea, illegally held po.ssessiou of by a dismissed sexton of church, 
 5405. 
 
 Beferred for inquiry by an Assistant Commissioner, 5408. 
 
 Louth, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken 
 at Dundalk, 12232 et teq. 
 
 Louth, parish of (Co. Louth) : 
 
 School formerly at Stephenstown ; see Stephenstown. 
 Toome school ; see Tounie. 
 Lowndes, Mr. Thomas, resident at Swords, Co. Dublin, holding land and house property under the 
 vicar; by lease, 19764-8 : hands in leases of 1810 and 1854; particulars of same, 19769-70, 
 19796. Identity of plot with a plot in map of 1797 of "school lands," 19771-3. Particulars as 
 to tenancies of the property, rent, and to whom paid, &c., 19774-96. — (See under Swords, 
 Hewitson's endowment.) 
 
 Lilian, Earl of; endowment by, for a classical school at Castlcbar, Co. Mayo ; not now in operation, 
 6077-8 ; see Casllebar. 
 
 Lucas, Edward, Esq., an old endowment by, for a school at Castleshane, Co. Monaghau ; but arrange- 
 ment between him and Bequest Board, that he maintaining the school, the endowment was not to 
 be further investigated, 9288. 
 
 Limgij School, parish of St. .John, Sligo, Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 6681 et seq. (See under Sliffo, 
 Erasmus Smith School.) 
 
 Lyon, Lev. John, master of Ballyroan school, (Preston Endowment,) Queen'.s Co. : Evidence of, as 
 to state and management of school, and causes of the docline of the school, 4764-77, 4904-14. His 
 salary £92 per annum and house rent free ; assistant master £60 Irish ; so that the two free pupils 
 in the school cost £147 6s. 'id. per annum, 4847-52. 
 
 No inspection or visitation of his school ; never inspected since 1838 or 1841 on his appointment, 
 4779, 4843. 
 
 No interference with religious creed of children ; no cuniplaiut of such interference ; nothing to 
 binder Roman Catholics from attending the school; on the contrary has jirepared two for Maynooth: 
 never made any distinction, or asked whether Protestants or Roman Catholics, 4792-5. 
 
 Good many respectable residents in the neighbourhood, but few children in their familie.'j, 
 4796-7. Locality not populous, and not chihlren to bo educated ; no necessity for a school in the 
 locality ; would be more useful in other neighbourhoods ; no one could establish a day school in 
 this village, 4861-6. No other school but at a considerable distance, 4803, Large schools at 
 Portarlington, 4866. 
 
 Abbeylei.x or Maryborough would be better localities, 4867-8. 
 
 In further evidence, states that four masters have failed to establish a .school in Abheyleix ; 
 schools declined ; grounds on which he makes this further statement, 4901-4914. — (See further, 
 under Balli/roaa.) 
 
 M'Auliy, I'homas, choir boy and Llue Coat School boy, Limerick ; (see Limerick.) Evidence of, 3059 
 el seq. 
 
 M'Cance, Rev. William, Kilmeaden School, Co. Waterford ; evidence of, in rejily to statements made 
 respecting him and his purcli;u>e of the property, (see Kilmeaden,) 383-7, 540, et seq. 
 
 Af'Caiisl.and and Fetherston, Solicitors : — sco Fetherslon, Godfrey, esq. 
 
 Macchimck, Mr. John ; endowment by, in land, for Roman Catholic Poor School, Tnilee, Co. Kerry ; 
 and for Convent And School for female ])oor, 2329. 
 
 M'Cimnell, Mr. .Inkn, Patron of s(^hool, Ijallymacbreniian, Co. Down. Grant from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, Lord DovvMsliire giving hiiid, now in jxissession of one of the trustees, wlio has enjoyed the 
 profits since, 9702 : not secured to the school, no deed, 9708-10, 9723-35. — (See further, under 
 liaUymwJn-tnwxn)
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 527 
 
 M'Cosh, Rev. James, i,i,.d., Professor of Lnt^ic and Motaphysics, Queen's CoIIe;,'C, Belfast ; an Exaniiuor 
 in Morals for tlio Civil Service of India: — Evidence of, as to general state of education ; want of 
 intermediate schools, or superior sciiools for the middle classes, 10J14-4G; extent to which local 
 funds could be raised, 10535-42. 
 
 A great want of intermediate schools in this country ; want of tliem for education of middle 
 classes, and their necessity as preparatory to the colleges, 1051.5. Heport of Select Committee of 
 the House of Commons in 1838, in favour of estahli.slinient of County Academies. The Queen's 
 Colleges have no adequate feeders, 10515. Comparative numbers of schools and colleges in 
 Ireland and other eomitries, 10515: Statistics, 10516-7. 
 
 The number of schools at which classics were taught has greatly decreased, produced to a con- 
 .siderahlc extent Iiy the establishment of National Schools giving a good education in the common 
 branches at a very cheap rate, 10516. 
 
 Competition for ])ublio offices ; superior means of education in England and Scotland ; Ireland 
 must fall behind Eu^dand and Scotland unless intermediate schools be established, 10519, 10523 • 
 want of fair means in Ireland of competing for these offices, 10520. 
 
 Suggestions to supply the deficiency and meet the wants of the country; there should be an 
 intermediate system of education, embracing Royal and all other schools supported by public money ; 
 and a Commission to be appointed for management of the schools and funds; constitution of pro- 
 posed Commission; schools not to be connected with any particular university; exclusive 
 privileges to be done away; further details, as to nature of education to be provided for, teachers, 
 selection of localities for schools, &c., 10522. 
 
 No school should be set up in any locality until proof is given of its want by a subscription or a 
 local tax laid on, 10522. Local subscriptions should be one-third or one-half — the other portion to 
 come from general funds, 10535-38. 
 
 Would give the localities subscribing a share in the supervision of the school, and a limited 
 power of nominating free pupils for merit upon examination, 10539-4G. 
 
 Would have no college exhibitions, 10522. Objections to exhibitions for college, more especially 
 in connection with particular schools, 10522, 10524-34. 
 MacBonndl, HercaJes, Esq., Secretary of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests for 
 
 Ireland; evidence of, 23166-7 et s:q. — (See under Commissioin-rs of Ckaritable Donaiwns, &c.) 
 M'Donnell, 'Rev. John Cotter, formerly superintendent of Borousrh School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; 
 Evidence of, 15835-005. 
 
 Resided within four miles of Swords ; visited generally twice a-weelc, more and less, 1.5837-9. 
 Examination of pujiils, 15840-2. Extent and nature of religious instruction, 15842-3 ; no com- 
 plaints in his time, 15871-5. 
 
 As to discipline of school ; flogging of boys; working of girls; selling of used copy-books by 
 master, 15844-65, 15893-903. 
 
 Assistant mistress, Miss Curtis, had charge of head class ; better qualified than head mistress, 
 Mrs. Bryson, 15S6G-70. 
 
 As to distribution of coals, 15875-81. 
 
 As to medical relief and school dispensary ; physician of it is also medical oflicer of poor law 
 district dispensary, 15882-93. 
 
 As to heads of expenditure in his time, none for manufactures or agriculture ; unsuccessful 
 attempt to introduce industrial instruction, 15904-5. — See under Swords. 
 M'Donnell, Patrk-k Dominich, Esq., Principal of Christian Brothers' School, Tralee, Co. Kerry; Evi- 
 dence of, 2347 et scq. : — (see under TraUe.) 
 M'Enif, Mr. P., proprietor and master of a classical school, Sligo ; — Evidence of, as to general state 
 of education and provision for same in Sligo, G777 et scq. 
 
 Keeps a classical school, in which he tenches also modern languages, French and Italian, arith- 
 metic, and some mathematics, 6777-9, 6782. 
 
 Believes there is a deficiency of instruction in classics, and the different branches of a o-ood 
 commercial education, G783. 
 
 Suggests as to an endowed school, above all things to keep it apart from sectarianism, which runs 
 high in the locality, 6784-5. Thinks, if the clergymen of each denomination of pupils were 
 allowed to attend to the religious instruction, the school would be benefited by it, 6786-8; 
 further observations as to religious instruction, 6789 et seq. 
 
 Thinks the appointment of a clerg^anan as h'ead master would interfere with the utility of the 
 school, 6798. 
 
 M'-G'um, Rev. Patrick, p.p. ; endowment by, for a school at Monaghan, 8603, et scq. — (Sec under 
 Monoi/han.) 
 
 M'Goioan, Anne, formerly a school girl at Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin : Evidence of, as 
 to improper working for schoolmistress after school hours, without payment, 15320 ct aeq. 
 Schoolmistress, Mrs. Bryson, and Anne M'Gowan, confronted, 15364-G. 
 
 M'Grath,J'/trm(i3, E^ri., classical assistant in Limerick Diocesan school: Evidence of, as to general 
 arrangements and course of instruction there, 2727 et seq. 
 
 M'Greal, lliomaa, E-q., Surgeon, Medical OtHcer of Lslandeady Dispensarj' District, Co. Mayo : 
 Evidence of, at Castlebar, as to general state of education in neighbourhood of Castlebar and other 
 parts of Mayo ; means of education of upper .and middle classes very deficient, 6152. Could not 
 support a good classical school ; have been good ones, which fell to the ground, 6153, 6155-7. 
 Much wanted, means of classical and English education, with French, G154 : great want for mid- 
 dle classes, bou:!d English mercantile education, including scientific education, with French, G155-9, 
 6166-72. Thinks National schools do not interfere with classical schools, 6161-3. 
 
 A school half endowed on the same principle as tlic Queen's College, Galway, would be of ireat 
 advantage ; for commercial and classical education combined. No means of educating children in 
 the place, mnny of whom are growing up in ignorance ; small means of the people: such a school at 
 30s. a-head would have 100 pupils, 6258-64. 
 Vol. II. 3 Y 2
 
 528 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 M'Greal, Thomas, Esq., Castlebar, — continued. 
 
 Christian Brothers have a school within two or throo miles of the town, to which there are some 
 few going a few months in the year, 6265-7. 
 
 Provisions should be made for the education of females of the middle class as well as males, 
 0290-7. 
 M'Kean, WilUam, Esq., representative of late Jlrs. Jachson : Evidence of, as to endownnMit by Mrs. 
 Jackson for school at Mona^'han ; badly managed, 8587 ; would pay the full charge, witli surplus, 
 if properly managed, 8588 : receipts and expenditure, 8589-95.— (Sec under JAj?i'/y/«(«, Jackson 
 School.) 
 M'Kmna, Ph'dq:>, Esq. ; endowment by, for a school at ^bmaglian, 8603 et sfq. — (See under 
 
 ^fo>^aghan.) 
 M'Kffmui, Mr. Evhfi-l, holding land at Swords, 19950-8 : his holding identified with plot No. 6 in 
 
 map of 1797 of " scliool lands," 19950. — (Sec under .SworJx, Ilewitson's Endowment.) 
 Mad-i'si/, Dr. Joseph, junior, jdiysieiau to Bishop Foy's School, Watcrford : Evidence of, as to health 
 
 of the boys, dietary, (fee, of school, 1G698 H seq., 16704-7, 16817 el seq.—{seo under Watcrford.) 
 Machesy, Dr., senior, Watcrford ; as to medical arrangements of Foy Schocd as compared with Society 
 of Friends' School in .same county, 16538, 16771-3: and evidence of Dr. J. J/acte^, junior, 
 16704-7. 
 Maclean, Eev. William, rector of Tynan, formerly oQiciating in the neigldiourliood of Sturgan school, 
 Co. Armagh:— Evidence of; school one of the least etiective under Erasmus Smith Boanl, when 
 clo.sed : built by that Board ; but funds diminishing, least effective schools were closed, the best 
 being kept up, 9318-23, 9328-30 ; might be desirable now to re-open it, 9301. 
 
 Mr. Lewcrs, late schoolmaster, still in possession of the schoolhouse, but no school kept, 9317 ; 
 site conveyed in perpetuity for school, 9332. — See Slurgan. 
 il'Nally, Plight Eev. Dr. Charles, Roman Catholic Bishop : Evidence of, as to endowments of Philip 
 M'Kenna, Esq. and Rev. Patrick M'Ginn, for education at Monaghan (see under Monaghan), 
 8604-11, 8651 <=<stY/. 
 M'Nalhj, Mr. ; donation by, of £10 a year for a school at Kells (see Kells), 23179. 
 M'Namara, Joseph, schoolmaster of Raaelagh School for boy.s, at Athlone : Evidence of, 7134 et seq. — 
 
 (See Athlone.) 
 Madden, Rev. Samuel, Incumbent of Attanagh, Durrow, Queen's Go. : Correspondence with, as to 
 a school at Altana or Attanagh, Durrow, Queen's Co.: present stiiool has no endowment, and 
 is under the Church Education Society, Kildare-place, 4737, 4740, 4743. 
 Mafjee, Joshua, Esq., Solicitor, Xewry : Memorials and communications from, as to Armagh and other 
 Royal Schools, 9362 et seq. Memorial of, (1848), alleges misaiq)lic:itiou of funds of Armagh 
 Royal School intended for education which has not been atiorded: instead of tlie school 
 being a free school, high charges made only one or two free pupils being admitted occasionally; 
 converted into a school for thearistocnacy ; memorialist, a native of Armagh, was refused admission, 
 and had to go to another county for cilueation ; fruitless applications by other citizens of Armagii 
 for admission for their children : application to office of Clare-street Board for information, which 
 he could not obtain ; prays for inquiry, 9362. 
 
 Furtlier letter from (1851): amount of income of the Royal Schools, and insignificant number 
 of free scholars admitted since 1848: refers again to tlie trusts on which the charter grants 
 were made, 9367. — Letter of the Commissiouers of Eilucation thereon, 9367. 
 
 Evidence of, 9373-5, 9617-9621, 9623. Having reduced to writing a statement he wished 
 to make, reads it, to tlie effect of the statements in the memorials .above referred to, with 
 more detail, and observations on the terms of the charter ,and provisions of the statute : refers to 
 Commissioner.?' returns of receipts and expenditure; complains of their management of the funds 
 and non-application of them to free (^lucation according to his views of the cliarter and statute : 
 refers also to endowments of Trinity College, and other funds for education in Ireland unproductive 
 of good ; many of the estates lost sight of: refers to endowments for schools at Clogher, Carysfort, 
 Banagher, Drogheda, Galway, Tipperary, Donegal, Enniskillon, Killybegs, Oxniantown, Ac, {see 
 under respective heads), and to funds for education in Ireland generally; table of land.s, (juantity 
 and valuation, belonging to Trinity College, 9373. — See under Armarjh, ifec. 
 Mafjheraclvney, Co. Monnghan : 
 
 Grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, sulK-icriptions from parish and vicar, who also gave an acre 
 of land and I'S a-ycar, 9300-1. 
 Magherafelt, Co. Loiidondcrr\' : 
 
 M;iglicrafelt school, endowed by Hugh R.ainey, Esq., 10573-10592. 
 
 Endowment for schools at Magherafelt and Castledawsou by Rev. Thomas Vcscy, 10558-10572. 
 
 MAGHERAFELT SCHOOL, ENDOWED IIY HUGH BAINEY, ESQ. 
 
 Information from reports of previous inquiries, itc. : — Account of the bequest of Hugh Rainey for 
 purchase of lands, the proceeds of which to be npplied as directed : endowment for a charity school 
 for lioys, to be fed, clothed, lidiicalcd, and apprenticed with fee : subsequent Act of Parliament, 
 11 Geo. II., whereby a fixed rent-charge on the land wa.s [irovided for support of the .scIhkiI ; 
 improvident arrangement, and consequent dimin\ition of number of i)iipils, 10574 : contributions 
 by Sir R. Bateson, 10575. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Letter from ,\Irs. Gaussen, (■omiilaiiiing of intentions of testator not being 
 carried out, 10573. Rev, Mr. Irwin's evidence, as to her complaints, 10582. Complainant, Mrs. 
 Gaussen, does not attend, 10573, 10580. 
 
 Rev. Charles King Irwin, Rector of M.agherafelt, visitor and manager of the s<-hoid : — L(!tter 
 from, 10577; Evidence, 10579-92. Solo income a rent-chaige of ,1'175, Irish, chargeable on 
 lands now in hands of a variety of proprietors : boys fed, clothed, and lodged, gratuitously, and 
 after three years apprenticed with suit of new clothes aii<l L'2 lO.s'. for apprentice fee, 10577. A 
 farm of land also hehl from Salter.s' Company, to whom a rent is paid for it ; from the above rent- 
 cliargc and procceda of farm, from fourteen to eighteen boys supported, educated, and ap[ircnticeil.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 529 
 
 ifaghrrafrit, Raliiey School — contiiiiieil. 
 
 10581. Will and Act, 10579; terms read, 10563-4, 10591. Statement of accounts, 10582, 
 10585-7. No malversation, ami all that is roqiiireilby the will is done, 10582. No directions aa 
 to selection of boys, who are selected by inana;,'er. Rev. Mr. Irwin ; classas selected, 10588-92. 
 
 Minutes of evidence taken by Mr. Ferguson, Assistant Commissioner, In I'uitbi'r inquiry into 
 complaint of Mrs. Ciaussoii, and rejiort thereon, pari'-ii 315, .'517. 
 
 ENDOVVMKNT J!Y REV. THOMAS VKSKY I'OK SCJI00L8 AT MAGIIWIAKELT AND CASTLEDAWSON. 
 
 Terms of ll(;v. Tlioinas Vesey's will for building a school at Maglierafelt, 10558. 
 Evidence of llev. Charles King Irwin, Rector of Maghcrafelt : — Not an endowment : particulars 
 of gift made by Rev. Thomas Vesey during his lifetime, and eontriliiition by Sir Robert Batesou ; 
 school in o])cration, 10559-10505. As to land, 105()9- 72. 
 
 As to Endowment for school at Castledawson, see Vastlcdawson. 
 
 Mftguire, John Fraiick, Esq., m.p., late Mayor of Cork ; Evi<lcnce of, as to high character of Chris- 
 tian Brothers' schools (sec Cork), 1356-7, 1359-03. 
 
 Jfafioni/, John ]Va/son, Esq., secretary, co lector of rents, and agent of Blue Scdiool. Limerick ; 
 Evidence of, ;M99 cf, seq. Documents as to the original foundation, application and nianagcmeut 
 of endowments, and state of funds, 3501-4. Dilajiidutcd condition of house property, and inat- 
 tention to it, :j509 et seq. Further evidence as to the finavices and accounts, 3548 et seq., 3G53 cl seq. 
 
 Mainr/a;/, j)farciix, Esq., resident at Wicklow for more than twenty years : Evidence of, as to general 
 state of education and want of jn'ovision for same in neighbourhood, 137G5-G. Great want of 
 schools for middle classes in the locality ; no means of giving a classical education without sending 
 the children away to a distance ; instances, some to Chester and Holland, 137G7 ; a good school at 
 home, or near, would be preferred, 137(J8. Want of means of education much felt: a .school for a 
 good general course of education in English ami cla.ssics, with modern languages, would be well 
 attended, 13708-71, 13775-G. No school at present for classics, or for French, or for general 
 education ; if a good school established, now there is a railroad, numbers from Dublin would take 
 advantage of it, for the sake of health ; visitors to the sea for the summer obliged to bring down 
 private tutors, or have no means of education ; a good school would be a great boon, 13772-7. 
 
 MiUcomson, Robert, Esq., a member of the Society of Friends, Merchant, ^Miller, Ship-owner, Clonmcl : 
 Evidence of, as to general state of education and provision for .same. Has been great want of 
 commercial instruction in Clonuiel ; not so great since National Model School and School of 
 Mechanics' Institute established ; model school has been of more advantage than any. hut not as 
 extended as it might be, 1050-9, 1078-9. Want of such a school for middle classes, who do not 
 like to send their children to mix with lower classes, lOGO-1 : a plain English commercial education 
 required ; classics not much required, but French particularly or German ; branches of instruction 
 which he would include, 1062-77. 
 
 Mallet, John, Esq., a Governor and Member of Committees of King Chas. II.'s School, or Blue Coat 
 Hospital, Oxmantown, Dublin : Evidence of, 22519-52, 22555, 22557-00, 22572, 22579, 22G58. 
 
 Concurs with Mr. Brady (see his evidence, under Oxmantown) in regard to extending the benefits 
 of the institution by more economical management, 22521-G. 
 
 Financial atFairs, and necessity for better management thereof, and of land agency, 22527-37. 
 Fraudulent loss of land from want of due supervision and of surveys from time to time, 22537-51. 
 Hemniing's fund, endowment by a boy educated in the school ; grounds of protest against the 
 sale of the stock, 22552. Letter from, to Mr. Hone, registrar, in 1S46, protesting against the sale 
 of stock or fiiuded property belonging to the institution ; and evidence of registrar as to same, 
 22240-51. 
 
 Preference for Freemen's children ; terms and construction of Charter ; Corporation of Governors 
 supposed themselves authorized so to limit admi-ssious, without legal ojiinion on the Charter, 
 22555 -GO. 
 
 Course of instruction ; utility of drawing, in all callings, 22572. 
 In favour of the present distinctive dress of the bo)'S, 22552. 
 
 Managcmrnt of Estates and Endowments, and of schools, >!i:c. ; see under Governing Bodies, and 
 names of respective bodies. Edatex, Endnvments, and names of respective Schools, Ac. 
 
 Manufactures in schools; see Employment, Gwyn, Swords, Tubrid, itc. Industrial Training, Agricul- 
 ture, (fee. 
 
 Marriage Portions for school girls : Walerford Blue. School, Carcw, 577-S3. Discontinued in Incorpo- 
 rated Society's Schools ; Ardill, 23298. 
 
 Maryhorovgh- Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education 
 in Queen's Co., 473G et seq. 
 
 Preferable to Ballyroan for a school ; see BaUyronn. 
 
 School endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; no longer in operation, 5113, 5116. 
 Masters and Assistant Masters: — 
 
 Appointment, Qualification.?, Number, Salaries, &c., of: see under names of pa rlicidar schools, 
 and under Erasmus Smith Board and other governing bodies. 
 
 Question as to whom the right of aj)pointing ia vested in ; see Clonmel, Elphin, Ardee, ic. 
 
 Representations of inadequate remuneration and inducements to, and suggestions as to necessity 
 of improving their position: Bishop of Boten, 10476. Banaqher, Bell, 5354-7, 5395-8 ; Monck, 
 5278. Belfast.V.r\vQ, 10385-9,10396-410. /)««r7a««on, Ringwood. 11825-8, 11836-7. Cavan, 
 Moore, 7878, 7949-65, 7972-3, 7984-5. Ennis, 3828-9; Kins, 3927-36. Clonmcl, Kettlewell, 
 722-46, 843-63. 1042-3. Gaheay, Killeen, 5506, 5510-8 : HalloWell, 20124-8 ; O'Leary, 6(i40-57. 
 Oxmantown, Dublin, Kyle, 22562. Waterford. Boll, 307-18. Cork, Dun.scombe, 2078-81 ; Newen- 
 Lam, 1557-8. Mona'ghan, Moonej', 8724, 9009-16 ; Somers, 827G, 8280-90. 
 
 Mode of regulating salaries of masters, and as to extent of dependence on number of scholars 
 and fees from pupils ; Bunagher, Bell, 5354-7, 5395-8 ; Belfast, Bryce, 10385 ; Dungannon, Ring- 
 wood, 11827-8. 
 
 Objections to clergymen for masters of schools ; see under Religion.
 
 530 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Masters and Assistant Masters — continued. 
 
 Schoolmasters and Assistants under Erasmus Smitli Board : Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, 
 Inspector and Registrar of Erasmus Smith Board, 21710-7, 21753-6, 21798-802, 23793 : 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, &c., 22763-4, 22735-9, 22815, 22883-5, 22910-4, 22960-71, 
 22996-300, 23022; see under ErasniKS Smith Board. 
 
 Under Clare-street Board, and Incorporated Society, ifcc. ; see Commissioners of Education, Incorpo- 
 rated Society, &c. 
 Mathematical Master, at Monaghan ; endowment for, see Mnnaghan. Mathematical Lectureship at 
 
 Midleton Endowed School, but bequest never paid ; see Midleton. 
 Matheius, William Peter, Esq., Secretary of Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests for 
 Ireland ; communications from, as to endowment for a school at Balliutemple, Co. Tij)perary, 659, 
 660: — (see Ballintemple.) 
 Mawe, Rev. .John, Roman Catholic Administrator of Tralee : Evidence of, as to Convent School at 
 Cali?rciveen and endowment left by General Count O'Connell for a school at Cahirdaniel, in Parish 
 of Kilcrohane, County Kerry, 2327-8: (see under Calierciveen.) 
 
 As to John 0. Hiekson's endowment, Roman Catholic Poor School, Tralee (see under Tralee), 
 2330-3, 2335. 
 
 Communication from, and evidence as to Strand-street School, Tralee, 2340, 2343, 2346: see Tralee. 
 Maxwell, Rev. Wm. or Rev. Dr. ; bequest by, for school atTihallon, Co. Monaghan, see Tihallon. 
 Mayo, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken at 
 Castlebar, 6075 et stq. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Buchanan, Esq., Barrister-at-Law, j.p., Co. Mayo, as to the general state of 
 education about Westport and the western part of the county, 6174-0219. Concurs with Mr. 
 Stoney and Dr. M'Greal, 0175 ( see M'&real, Sioney.) 
 
 Very limited means of obtaining education in that part of Mayo; obliged to send his boys to 
 Nowtownards, Co. Down, 0175. Great want of good school for classical and English education, 
 with modern languages : number of residents too limited to compensate a competent master; not 
 enough to guarantee the requisite amount, but enough to offer something hand.-;omo ; intermediate 
 school required between the minor schools and colleges, as connecting link to the latter; national 
 schools in his part of the county, being very poor schools, and for the humblest classes only, have 
 not interfered with other schools, 6176-9. Persons of better classes would send their children to a 
 good school at home if there were one, 6176, 6187-8, 0191 : some now spend more to send their 
 children to England or elsewhere, partly from absence of a good school near, and partly for other 
 reasons, 617-5, 6177, 6186, 6192-4, 6190-8. Great desire for education as far as means will go; 
 Greatest demand for mercantile education, except for gentlemen who require classics and science 
 preparatory for college, 6189-90, 0195. 
 
 Suggestions as to education generallj' : thinks a better class of teachers desirable for national 
 schools (of some of which ho is a manager) ; allocation of trained teachers for particular counties 
 or districts, for selection, 6177-8, 6199-6201 : difficulty in obtaining qualilied teachers in remote 
 localities, 6177-8, 6199-6201 et seq. : the evil really at the root, the want of adequate instruction 
 in the localities, 6205 et seq. 
 
 Thinks that Government aid is required for opening a good classical school, especially in a county 
 like Mayo ; and has no doubt a good commercial school would succeed well, and work a great 
 change in the county, 6208-19. 
 
 For evidence of other witnesses in this county, see Buchanan, Conry, M'Greal, W. B. Stoney. 
 Meade, Rev. William, Midleton ; Evidence as to Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork; has had six 
 boys at the .school : three tliore now ; character of the school and instruction in it, 18179 et seq. 
 Favouritism of the master in regard to particular ]>upils, 18196-200, 18222 : master in the habit 
 of absenting himself, 18206: irregularities in scliool, 18213, 18231, 18233, 18834 c? ^fj. — (See 
 Midleton.) 
 Meath, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowmcnt.s, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Navan, 12409 et seq. 
 
 Meath Diocesan Seminary (Roman Catholic unendowed school,) and otiier schools in Meath ; see 
 under Navan. 
 
 BEQUEST OK MISS KELLETT FOR BUILDIStl SCIIOOLHOUSES IN CO. MKATlt. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Frederick Trench, Rector of Newtown, Meath : — Procured copy of Miss 
 Kellett's will from Charitable Bequests Commissioners: of .i'3,000 bequeathed in 1811 by her 
 for building schoolhouses in Co. Meath, only .i.'130 expended in that county in building a National 
 schoolhouse at Carlanstown ; present executor never before acquainted with the matter but has 
 been supporting schools in Duldin out of the same fund for forty years, but none applied to Meath 
 except the above 1:130 ; about £2,000 remaining, and now thinks it will be right to withdraw tho 
 funds for the future from Dublin and employ them in Moath, according to provisions of will, 
 12860-1. Rev. Mr. Trench wishes to know whether the remainder of the i;3,000 and interest 
 for the forty years could not be recovered for Meath, 12S01-2. 
 
 Mechanics ; want of facilities for instruction in ; sec Natural Sciences. 
 
 Mccredi/, Rev. Jlinry R., Presbyterian Minister, Killead : letters as to Ballyrobin and Killead schools, 
 Co. Antrim, 10300, 10301 ; evidence of, 10302-19. (Sec Killead.) 
 
 Medals: conditions on which issued i)y Erasmus Smitli Board; Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, 
 Inspector and Registrar of Erasmus Smitli Board, 21774-7 : Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, 
 (kc, 22756-9 (and see Dror/heda, Ennis, Galway) — sec Prizes, Exhibitions, &c. 
 
 Medical Attendance on School; arrangements for, where jirovidcd. Ihwnpniric/c, Harrell, 10064-7. 
 Waterford, Foy School, M:ickesy, 
 
 Dispensary in connecti<m with school, for affording modicil relief to inhabitants. Swords, 14023; 
 (see Swords. ) 
 
 Mercer't, Madam, School, Castleknock, Co. Dublin : — report and correspondence on state and manage- 
 ment of the accounts of, pafjes 326-328. 
 
 Middle Classes, want of schools for ; sec Intermediate Schools.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 531 
 
 Miillelon, Lord : letter from, as to bis absence from tbo inquiry as to Midleton Endowed Scbool, and 
 circumstances wbicb bavo prevented his attending to the scbool, as one of the trustees, 17602.— 
 (See Midleton). 
 Midleton, Co. Cork : — midleton endowed school. 
 
 Information from reports of pri'rions Imiuirics, ttc, 17(10.3-2.5. 
 
 Minutes of Visitation of scbool in 18.54, by the trustees, 17632 ci seq., 17G3G-9. 
 
 Present Tnquiiy, 17601-2, 17625-31, 17634-5, 17641 et seq. : in August, (1855,) 17630, 
 17740-3 : in December, (1855,) 17601 et scq. 
 
 Previoiu Inquiries. — Foundation of the .'chool, anno 1696, by Elizabeth Countess of Orkney, as 
 a free school, with Kxbibitions to University, 17603-4. Estates of endowment by Lady Orkney, 
 2000 acH's, let on two leases renewable for over, at yearly rent of flOO a-year each, and £25 
 on fall of every life ; worth ).'2O0O a-year ; doubt as to Icasiuij: jiowers, 17603. Proceedings for 
 breaking the leases, legal dilllculties ; after much litigation, leases ultimately sustained on 
 appeal to House of Lords, and endowment couscqucntly only £200 a-year, 17607-9, 17612-3. 
 
 Another bequest, lost; profit rents of two houses in Cork, left by Mr. Harris, anno 1723, for 
 establishment of a mathematical lectureship at the school, but bequest never paid, 17606. 
 
 Costs of litigation ))revented the Exhibitions from being given, but since restored, 17615. 
 
 Number of jiupils, income, salaries, and expenditure at various periods, 17611, 17614, 17G21-4. 
 Decline of th(! school reported at various jieriods, and causes, 17606, 17616-7 ; in 1826, house in 
 ruins, and, since 1S12, no scholars, 17610 : in 1S2S, L'1600 spent in building present schoolhouse, 
 17620 : prospects of improvement of school reported (1847-8), since resignation of a former master, 
 17618-9. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — John W. Scott, Esq., Agent of Lord Midleton : letter as to trustees, nature and 
 value of endowment; lands let much below their value : visitation in 1S54 for inquiring into 
 complaints of school management, 17628. 
 
 Lord Midleton : Letter as to his ab.sence from the inquiry and circumstances which liave prevented 
 his attending to the school, as one of the trustees, 17602. 
 
 ComjateWs of present management of school, 17625, 17628, 17630 et seq. 
 
 Richard W Donman, Esq., Solicitor ou behalf of Dr. Hodgens, bead master, ap])lios to be heard as 
 advocate for him; observations as to reception of evidence, 17648-60. 
 
 Thomas A Uin, Esq., .t.p., Midletcm : letters of complaint and correspondence with present Conimis- 
 siouors, 17G25-7, 17630-1, 17634-5 ; correspondence in 1853-4, between Jlr. Allin and Dr. 
 Hodgens, and others previous to visitation, 17636-40, 18676 : statements and evidence at inquiry, 
 17642, 17645, 17661 tt seq. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Allin. — Had two sons at Midleton Endowed School for some years, 17663- 
 17670 : their conduct and previous instruction, good, 17671-5. Not satisfied with their progress 
 at Midleton School ; management of school complained of for want of discipline and proper control, 
 for carelessness and negligence, and master and assistant master improperly absenting themselves, 
 to the injury of the pupils, 17676 et seq. : complaints of other parents, and boys removed from the 
 school, 17683, 17700, 17724, 17746-7, 17821. 
 
 Want of sufficient visitation of the scbool, and of publicity, 17728-17732. 
 
 Charges preferred by, at an investigation held at a visitation in 1854, at the school, by the 
 trustees, 17632, 17633, 17736 et seq., 17781 : and minute of result of the visitation, 17632, 17781. 
 
 Thomas Allin, jnn., son of Thomas Allin, Esq., j.p., Midleton, and formerly a pupil in Midleton 
 Endowed School : — Evidence (in reference to the complaints against the school), as to the in- 
 struction he received and the persons from whom he received it, while at that school, 17S55 et seq., 
 17910-21, 17924-7, 17030-2: 17938-17941, 17945 et seq.; as to the attendance of the master, 
 Dr. Hodgens, and its irregularities, 17860-3, 17890, 17894, 17974 ; assistants, and conduct of 
 scbool in master's absence, 17858-9, 17893 4, 17911, 17969, 17975 et s^q. ; efl'ect of master's 
 absence on the discipline of the school; irregularities specified, smoking, whiskey-drinking, ball- 
 playing in school-room, detonating balls in school during school hours, card-playing and boys barter- 
 ing their clothes in school hours, novel-reading, ic, 17864-17892, 17903-5, 17923, 17928-9, 
 17943-4 et seq.: interruption to study, 17890; thefts in school, 17897-17901 : forged judgments, 
 17933-7: at lirst, discipline bettci, afterwards became more lax, 17971; warned his father not to 
 send his brother there, and preferred teaching him himself, 17897. — Went to Mr. Turpin's to 
 receive instruction while at this school, from dissatisfaction with its management, 17856, 17906- 
 17908: after leaving school, was first Exhibitioner at Trinity College for the Midleton prize ; Mr. 
 Townsend's testimonial, 17909. 
 
 Robert W. Goold Adams, Esq., j.p., one of the visitors of Midleton School; Evidence of, 18287- 
 18342. 
 
 Charges preferred by Mr. Allin against the master. Dr. Hodgens, 18292, 18312 et seq. — School 
 not well conducted, 18319 : defects .and irregularities specified, 18320 et sec^. — Disqualification of a 
 pupil for an Exhibition to Trinity College, by reason of irregular attendance at school, 18330 et seq. 
 
 Rules and practice in regard to visitation, 18301, 18303. — Rules not acted upon, 18306 : five 
 visitations recorded in seven years, 18304 : visitations ought to be more frequent and regular, 18302, 
 18307 ; and public, 18308. 
 
 John Wilkinson, Esq., j.p. Evidence : had a son at the school whom he removed to another school, 
 from dissatisfaction at his progress and at the want of discipline at Midleton School ; smoking, 
 drinking, and card-plaj'ing amongst the boys there ; further details in evidence, 17803-47. Sends 
 his boys to Portarliugtou ; if there were a proper school at Midleton would send them to it and 
 save expense, 17844-5. 
 
 Henry Welland, Esq., residing a mile from Midleton : Evidence ; has a son whom he was anxious 
 to send to school, but would not send him to Midleton School on account of the character it bears ; 
 boys out shooting in the fields with guus ; laxity of discipline ; would be a verj' great convenience 
 to him and others to be able to send their sons to be educated iu the neighbourhood, 17995-18021. 
 
 Daniel Huraphreys, Esq., a farmer ; Evidence as to boys shooting about the place, and as to Mrs. 
 Keneh's removal of her boys from the school, 18022 et seq.
 
 532 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Midlefon, EnJowed School, Co. Cork — continued. 
 
 E<v. WiUiam Meade, Midlcton ; Evidence, has hrd six hoys at f ho school ; tliioc there now ; 
 character of the school and instruction in it, 18170 el seq. Favouritism of the master in re<,'ar<l to 
 particular pupils. 1819G-200. 18222 : master iu the hahit of ahscnting himself, 1820ij ; irreijularitie.s 
 in school, 1821.3, 18231, 1823.0, 18234 et s.,j. 
 
 Rev. Thomas Gil/binr/s, Rector of a parish udjoinin!: Midleton : Evidence as to the character the 
 school bears, 182G7 et seq. — From result of in<|uiries he made, has advised parents who have 
 consulted him, not to send their children there, 18273. 
 
 3fi: Fdwai-d Stcike/t, {oTmeTlylan assistant in the school : Evidence as to attendance of nia.^fer 
 and assistants, and as to irreu'Mlarities amongst the hoys and laxity of discipline ; and as to his own 
 previous statcniciils in 1851 at the visitation, LSUIO et seq. 
 
 George Court imii BoKrke : letter from, and observations as to his absence at the in(]niry, 170-11-0, 
 18030-7 : removed his boy from school frcm religious considerations, as he could not expect Dr. 
 Ilodgens to teach the Roman Catholic religion, 17041, 17745-8. 
 
 Jl. F. Moore Hodder, BallincoUig; letter from, in regard to Dr. Ilodgens, 17042. 
 
 Rev. Edward p. Ilodgens, D.D., Head Blaster: correspondence with Mr. Allin in 1853-4 previous 
 to the visitation in hitler year, 17030-40, 18070 ; evidence, 18343 et.vq., 19049 et ■'>eq. : advertise-- 
 ments of his school. 17722. 18407 : one stating that the trustees hold an annual visitaticm of the 
 school, 18302. Rule requiring Governors to visit once a-year or oftener, 18350 : but not acted 
 upon ; onlj' one visitatiou from December, 1850, to April, 1854, at wliich the investigation was 
 held in February of latter year, 18347-75. Notice of visitation generally given, and how, 18384-400. 
 Examination of boys at visitation, sometimes, not always ; nature of examination, and inspection 
 of school on such occasions, 18370 S3. 
 
 Assistants, number and remuneration ; sometimes only one, although advertisement states that 
 tiie ablest masters in every department arc engaged, 18411-57, 18458-09, 18010-28, 18058-9. 
 
 Register or roll of ])upils, 18401-10. Discrepancies in returns of numbers, 18470-81 : books 
 from which tin.' returns were made, and objections to produce them, 18482-9tj. 
 
 Charge for day pupils eight guineas a-year, or two guineas a quarter : doubtless prevents a 
 number of limited means, especially with a good school cheaper in the town ; received no rules 
 or instructions as to charges, IS497-5ol. Hoarders .£40 a-3'car, and extras, 18500-10. 
 
 Seven dav scholars, two paying and five Iree pupils, 18497, 18502. Trustees nominate the 
 free |)upils, each nominating one in rotation, and until he leaves cannot nominate another ; six of 
 Rev. Mr. Meade's sous have been free pupils, 18503-8. 
 
 No Roman Catholics in the school, never had a Roman Catholic free pujiil, 18511-2 ; .some in 
 the town and nciirlibourhood who migiit be pupils, 18513. Religious instruction daily, its nature 
 and routine, 18530-0. 
 
 School hours, and attendance or absence of master in school, 18510-29, 18537-8 : answer of 
 Dr. Ilodgens to complaint on this head, and as to neglect of religious instruction, 18539-83. 
 
 Punishments ; nature of them and of ofTences for which inflicted, and number of cases, 18029-40 
 18050-7. 
 
 Dr. Ilodgens' evidence in answer to allegations of irregularities, such as smoking, ilrinking, 
 <tc., 18584-028, 18047-55. Evidence as to the complaints preferred at the visitatiou, and as to 
 allegations of Mr. Allin and Mr. Meade, &c., 18073-00. 
 
 Furtlier evidence as to irregularities in school, 18000-73, 1904-90, 19057-00, 19049-50. 
 
 Venerablr ,'inrinul Ki/le, Archdeacon of Cork, a visitor of the school : — Statement as to absenc(5 
 of the Bishop at present ini[uiry, 17001 ; evidence, 18097 ft seq. Cliarter and rules of .school, 
 18097-700. Jlinutebook of trustees, 18701-7 : periods during which the school has been alto- 
 gether closed, 18708-11 : no record of any visitation of the school from 1830 to 1847 ; iueflicient 
 state of school previous to 1847 when Mr. Turpin resigned the mastership, 18712-20. Resolution for 
 annual or more frequent visitation then adopted in 1847 ; four visitations from 1847 to 1854, seven 
 vear.s, 18721- 31. Evidence in reference to the course taken on Mr. Allin's complaints in 1854, and 
 the visitation thereon, 18735 c< «'y. School since well conducted, 18777. As to improvement of 
 constitution of Board of Trustees, and central supervision and visitation required, 18777-9. 
 
 Rev. Francis ./oiie:i, Rector of Midleton, a trustee of the school ; evidence in reference to the com- 
 plaints which have been made of the school, the course taken thereon, and his duties as "resident" 
 trustee relatively to the rest of the body, 18790 et seq. Visitations, their irregularity, 18825-33. 
 School hours and regulation, 18835-40. Complaints and remonstrances with master thereon, 
 18S44-0, 1<8SG2 e/seq. 
 
 Central supervision and inspection or visitation recjuired, 18854-00. 
 
 Mrs. A'/ne.s Eliza Keneh, mother of two boys formerly at the school, and reuiuved on account 
 of their having hoo])iiig-cough : evidence; 18898 e/wi/. 
 
 Rev. Joseph Rogersnn Cotter, Dunnioro Rectory, father of four boys who have been at the school, 
 two there at present ; evidence favourable to the school ; high ojiinion of the religious discipline 
 an<l instruction at the school, 18917 et seq. 
 
 Rev. .Iinnes White, father of a boy at the school ; evidence favourable to the Instructiou and 
 conduct of the school, 17958 et srq. 
 
 John (loggin, Esq , father of a boy formerly at the school ; evidence very favourable to Dr. 
 Ilodgcn.s' attention to his son, who on leaving went to college and obtained first exhibition prize, 
 18978 c<«(><jf. 
 
 Richard Mason (Joggln, Esq., formerly a pupil at the .school ; evidence bears testimony to Dr. 
 Iloiigcns' kindness and attention, 18990 et seq : as to the alleged irregularities, 19004-25. 
 
 /lartJiol(/>new //ackrtt, Esq., father of a boy formerly at the school ; evidence, 19031 etseq. ; ptir- 
 ticularlv satisfied with the progress his son made, 19038 ; took him away only at the request of 
 the parish j)ricst, who wished to establish a Roman Cath.olic school, 19039. 
 
 William Jfnchetl,Y,»<\., father of a boy formerly at the school ; evidence, 19041 etseq. : removed 
 Lini at request of parish priest, who wished to establish a Roman Catholic school, 19044.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 533 
 
 MilUaiy, Naval, aii.l Civil Service ; competition for apj-oiiitmo.it.s in ; see Appointtmnts. 
 
 Miller, Georije, Es.]. Agent to the Anna-h Koyal Scliool estates ; evidence of, 'JGG4 el mi. :— fsoc under 
 Arvuujh.) 
 
 Minhter of Edacafion, or of I'nhlic /ii.it ruction, suggested ; lils/iop of Down, page 303 ; Porlfr. Ennis- 
 killen, ll'lUS-2()7. 
 
 MkappUcdlioH of Endowments; see under K ndowmentit, EstnUs, Governing Bodies, Ac. 
 
 Mixed Eduattion : 
 
 Schools for children of different religious cleiiominations ; see under Rdi'iion. 
 
 _ Comhined instruction, in classics ami Etjglish course; for university aud for commerce; profes- 
 sional and mercantile ; see under Comhiuution. 
 
 JJ/oa^f School, Lisnaskea, Co. Fermanagh, 12231. 
 
 Model Schools ; see National. 
 
 Modern Ldvgufifjes ; see Lnnguarjes. 
 
 Mofatt, Rev. Uenry, Rector o*' Monaghan, aud one of the trustees of .Jackson School, Monaghan ; 
 Evidence of, .as to Jackson School, 8448 H snj. As to Diocesan School, Monaghan, 1)200 el sea. 
 As to endowment for a mathematical master at Monaghan, by Alexander Cairnes, Esir. formerly 
 received by master of diocesan school, 9140-82. — (See, as to each, under Monaghan.) 
 
 Moffatt, Rev. Horatio, Curate of the parish: Evidence of, as to Blue School, Downj)atrick. Has 
 made comjilaints of the master being careless in the conduct of the school ; has been in the habit of 
 visiting it for tive years ; thinks the nuistcr too old : school would be unquestionably benefited by 
 his removal, and by i)rocuring a better teacher, 10068-80. Schoolmistress rather advanced in 
 years, and complains of having too much work in carrying on the secular instruction of the 
 children: girls very much employed in shirt-making for the boys, and but little school time; 
 children not properly taught, 1U084-8. — See under UownpatricL: 
 Moffatt, Rev. James, Rector of Athlone, raises a question as to the management of Ranelagh Boys 
 School, Athlone, (under Incorporated Society, ) 7007. His Evidence, 70iG-7073, 7094, 7128-7133. 
 Rev. Mr. Moll'att complains also of non-payment to him of the £20 a-ycar left to the minister of 
 Athlone : .£700 due to him, 705G. Terms of act, £20 ;i-ycar for ever to " the minister or clon'y- 
 man for the time being who shall have the care of souls in Athlone," and the like sum " to the 
 minister of Roscommon for the time being," 7010. 
 
 Return of the Society, that there is "a paid catechist (Rev. Hugh Murray,) who regularly visits 
 and inspects the premises, catechises," ifec, 7052. — (See under Athlone.) 
 Moffett, Mr. T/mnas, Parish Clerk aud Master of Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ■ Evidence 
 of, 14.332-758, 14814-G. 
 
 Course of instruction, includes some grammar, geography, and geometry to one boy, 14556-S. 
 School hours ten to three, 145G7-9. Division of duties between himself and assistant master; no' 
 copy books producible ; proceeds of sale of old copy books ap])lied to master's use, not in purchase 
 of pencils or school requisites, 14.070-038. 
 
 Inspection and examination of boys, by superintendent ; by vicar or local c-ovcrnor occasionally ■ 
 by curate weekly, 14539-54. 
 
 A lending library, formerly uiidcr his charge, but books lost and injured, and charfo transferred 
 to one of the female teachers ; books lent to iuhabit.ants who apply for them, and policemen as 
 ■well as boys and girls of school, 14GG7-701. 
 
 Punishments : slapping on the hand with a cane : no stripping : have been flon-r^ed on the back • 
 have been stripped; punishments not reported: unsatisfactory evidence of witness 14702-5s' 
 15.533-7: in reference to evidence of Dclahoyd, (see under iS'^TOn/^,) considers he g.ave no unneces- 
 sary punishment; if ho swore he never flogged a boy it was a mistake, 15533-7. 
 
 As to Archdeacon Hewitson's Endowment for a Protestant School at Swords ; documentary 
 evidence, produced by Mr. Motlett. as Parish Clerk, by direction of Rev. Mr. Howard 19743-6 
 19754, 1974G, 197G1, 197G3, 1979G. 
 
 Evidence of, 200GG-79: receives rent from Mr. Thomas Lowndes for Hon. and Rev. Mr. Howard 
 who considers it as part of his own glebe, not for any particular or charitable purposes, 200G7-74.' 
 See further, under Stvords. 
 Mohill, Co. Leitrim ; endowments for schools at, and in parish of, G909 et srry. 
 
 Letter from Rev. .John W. Ever.s, p.p., Mohill, G909. lul'ormation from reports of previous 
 inquiries, &c., G910, G912. 
 
 Mohill School, house and garden free, etc., G909, 6910, 6912. 
 
 Townlet School, in parish of Mohill, house and garden free, &c., 6909, 6910. 
 
 D.ay School, with house and garden free, grant from National Board, &c., 6910. 
 
 No returns from these schools, 6910. 
 
 Referred to an Assistant Commissioner, C913. 
 
 Molony, Mr. Cornelius, Assistant to Master of Clonmel Endowed School, Co. Tipperary : appointed 
 
 by Mr Kcttlcwell, 1854, at £40 a-year with instruction in classics, 8G6-7U. His duties in the 
 school, chi^cHy science branches and superintendence of boys in school, when Mr. Kettlewell not 
 present, 871, 885 ; has commercial pupils and some preparing for commissions in the army, 872-3: 
 particulars of instruction to commercial pupils, 871, S74-SS1 ; selection of books, 888, 890-1. As 
 to success in after-lite, 882-4. Advantage of classical and English education for persons going to 
 business ; cannot write well without it ; the practice of elassicarinstruction to pupils for commercial 
 life has not, in the least, deterred pupils from the school, 886. — (See Clonmel.) 
 
 Monaghan, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken 
 at Monaghan, 8276 el ser/. 
 
 Cairnes Endowment for Mathematical Master at Monaghan, 9140 etseq. 
 
 Diocesan District School, for Clogher, Kilmoro, and Raphoe^ S686 et scq., 8917 etseq., 9140, 9142. 
 Jackson Boys and Girls School, 8276 et seq. 
 M'Giun iMidowment for a School at Monaghan, 8603 etseq. 
 M'Kenna Endowment for Education in parish of Monaghan, 8603 et seq. 
 Vol. II. 3 z
 
 534 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Monaylian, — continued. 
 
 CAIRNES ENDOWMENT FOR A MATHEMATICAL MASTER AT MONAQHAN. 
 
 Information fi-oni previous Ri'porU, itc. — Annuity of £20 bequeathed by Alexander Cairnes, Esq., 
 for establisbuient of a nuithematical master to teacb in town of Monagbau ; in bands of Lord or 
 Lady Piossniore, 9140-2 : formerly in ojicration and received by Dr. Mooney, in connection with 
 the diocesan scliool, of wbicb he is master, 8918, 9140, 9142. Arrears amounting to £400 given 
 towards building the diocesan school, 8918, 9174-5. 
 
 Present Inquirij. — Dispute as to liability under svill of Mr. Cairnes ; evidence of Lord Ptr>ssmore, 
 who claims the disposal of the bequest, 9143-52, 9177-82 : has not been paid by him since the 
 death in 1841 of last Lord Rossmore, 9177-8. Evidence of Rev. Thomas Mooney, head master of 
 diocesan school, who claims the annuity under the will of Mr. Cairnes, under which it had been 
 paid from time immemorial, 9150, 9153-70. 
 
 DIOCESAN' SCHOOL FOR DISTRICT OF CLOGHER, KILMORE, AND RAPHOE. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inipiiries, &c. — Returns of number of pupils, income, salary, 
 (kc, at various periods, 86SG-91. Presentment of £500 by Grand Jury, and other funds, for 
 building, 8689-90. Annuity of .£'20 bequeathed by Mr. Alexander Cairnes, for a mathematical 
 master to teach in town of Monaghan claimed for this school, 8687, 8091. 
 
 Report of visitation in 1849 : unfavourable account of school, 8918. 
 
 Prese?it /wjHiV.v.— Evidence of Rev. Thomas Mooney, head master, 8092-8916, 8919-9088, 
 9117-9, 912G-8, 9139, 9183-4 : — Small number of pupils ascribed to a rival school established by 
 the inhabitants while the diocesan school was without a master and vacant, and there are two other 
 schools, 8695-9, 8704-7, 9000-78. Pupils of middle classes of the neighbourhood, 8700-1 : of 
 different religions, Established Church, Roman Catholics, aud Presbyterians, 8722-3. Roll, names 
 and particulars of boys, 8725-8823, 8877-93. Impressions of master's character or temperament, 
 which may have an effect on the number of his pupils, 8824-59, 8866, 8921, 9083-7. Course of 
 education, 8702-3. Visitation and good answering of boys on examination at it, 8711-21. Success 
 in after-career, 8894-8913 : numbers sent to college, 8923-38, 9000-5. Very few Protestant 
 clergymen send their children to the school ; causes to which attributed, 9017-24. 
 
 Free pupils six or seven at present; numbers at different times, 8989-9004 : selected by master, 
 who considers there is no right in any other person to present to free places, 9005-8. 
 
 Report of a visitation of the school in 1849 ; unfavourable account of the school and school 
 arrangements, although local circumstances peculiarly favourable ; general dissatisfaction and want 
 of confidence in the school; causes indicated, 8918. — Master states that this report was never 
 communicated to him, and never seen by him before this inquiry, and arrangements reported as 
 objectionable not before pointed out to him ; complains of this as a grievance, 9043-59. No 
 visitation ordinarily, 9025-8. 
 
 School business and arrangements for division of duty, 9029 et seep One assistant for arithmetic 
 and mathematics, 8860-5, 9029 ; a Roman Catholic aud master of a National school, 8939 ; ob- 
 jections to this arrangement, 8918, 9037-52. 
 
 Discipline ; punishments, 8867-76. 
 
 Schoolhouse in good rep.air; repairs executed by master; large amounts expended, 8708-10. 
 Erection of the house, and from what funds, 8940-68. Nature and extent of accommodation and 
 ground attached, 8969-88. 
 
 Considers his salary exceedingly small aud miserably paid, 8724 : amount of his emoluments, 
 9009-10. 
 
 Evidence of Alexander Dude/eon, 'Esei-, formerly a pu])il for more than six years in the school, 
 under Dr. Mooney ; favourable te.stimony from his experience, as to Dr. Mooney s kindness, diligence, 
 and attention to his pupils, though witness has heard unfavourable opinions expressed, 9089, 9100. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas Edmond Wright, Esq., solicitor, formerly a pupil for two years in the school, 
 under Dr. Mooney ; considers it was at that time a good classical scliool ; has no personal knowledge 
 of it since ; there were some corporal punishments, but not so severe as he has seen elstwhere ; Dr. 
 Mooney not a cruel severe man ; cannot account for the falling off in number of pupils, 9110-37. 
 
 Evidence of the Venerable John A. Russell, Archdeacon of Cloghcr, one of the visitors of the 
 school in 1849 : — Examined the boys on one occasion ; answered very well indeed, aud carefully 
 instructed, 9185-95. Groun<ls of the visitation, dissatisfaction which prevailed ; and mode in 
 which the visitation was conducted; report of visitation uufavourablc, 9197-9206, 9228-59. 
 Visitors reported to Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; recommended annual inspection of 
 this and other diocesan schools ; no steps taken by the hoard thereon, 9208-9 : general complaints 
 of inefficiency of the diocesan schools, and of want of inspection ; desirableness of regular in- 
 spection, 9210-7. 
 
 Decline of the school, and cause, 9196. 
 
 Want of good classical, commercial aud mathematical school ; no reason why diocesan schools 
 should not be made elliciont for mathematical education ; no diUlculty in combining the two courses 
 of education in tho same school ; desirableness of endowment for the pnrjiose, 9218-22 ; no serious 
 dilliculty in admitting and educating pupils of different religious denominations, 9223-7. 
 
 Evidence ef Rev. Henry Moffolt, Rector of Monaghan : 9200 et se<j. Unwillingness to give evi- 
 dence, owing to inability, from rumour, to sjicak so favourably of Dr. Jlooney as he could wish, 9264, 
 9266-8. Does not visit the school, has no i>owcr over the school, 9272-0. Dr. Mooney a perfectly 
 competent classical teacher ; as to decline of the school, 9277-86. 
 
 Endowment for a mathonuitical master at Mon;ighan by Alexander Cairnes, Esq., formerly 
 received by master of diocesan school, 9140-82 ; {see etheive under Cairnes Endowment.) 
 
 JACKSON BOYS AND GIRLS SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from Reports of previ'ius Jnefdries, etc. — Extract from will of Ricnard Jackson, Esq., 
 bequeathing endowment, 8280, 8571 : from will of Mrs. Jackson confirming tame, and beiiueathiug 
 annuity for re[)airH, 8281, 8574. Reports of Commissions in 1826 and 1835 ; free schools, for all 
 religious denominations; number of pupils, income, &c., 8277-9. 
 
 Present Ineiuiry Mr. Thomas Svmers, Master of Jackson Free School ; letter of complaint as to
 
 INDEX TO EVIDEXCE. 535 
 
 Monaghan, Jackson School, — coiitiinieil. 
 
 reduction of Lis salary, 827G ; eviJencp, 8282 et serf, 8527 Hseq., 859G et spq. His salary formerly 
 £22 'is., as in will ; since reduced tweiity-fivc per cent., 8270, 8280, 8282-90. Notice served by 
 Iiira on the rector, 8596-8G02. Sum liccjucathed for stationery for the school, 8280; paid to 
 Kector, and how ajiplied ; books and requisites obtained from Church Education Society's deposi- 
 tory, 83;U-9, 8:]51-6. " Other emoluments," derived from payments by Church Education Society 
 for "proficient" ])U])ils, not returned by master, iib'21 et seq. 
 
 Number of jiupil!*, 110 on the roll, from 43 to 52 avera;,'e attendance ; a mixed school, boys and 
 girls, and of all reli^'ious denominations; a work-school for girls under a mistress, 8291-8307. 
 Diminution of numbers; recent establishment of a Presbyterian school, 8294, 8340, 83G6-80. 
 Sudden increase of numbers immediately before inspection and examination for fees, by Church 
 Education Society, 8550-1,8558-9. 
 
 As to fitness of witness to be . schoolmaster ; his previous experience in teaching; illiterate 
 composition of his letter; ignorance on examination, in spelling, in grammar, in punctuation, 
 8270,8357-81. 
 
 Course of instruction, English, and Scriptures read every day Ijy all, 8308-10. School visited 
 and inspected by local clergy and a Committee of Cluuch Education Society ; examinations at 
 inspections, and results recorded, 8311-33, 85G0-9: as to extent or infrequcncy of visitation and 
 examination recorded by clergy, 8341-50. 
 
 Rules and regulations of the school changed since it was placed under Cliurch Education Society; 
 but not strictly observed, and many not attended to at all; boys kept on roll though not attending, 
 for three months ; cause of discrepancy in numbers on roll and in attendance; particulars in which 
 the rules are neglected, and departure from intention of the rules which are in operation, 8382-8447. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Henry Afofatt, Rector of Monaghan, and one of the trustees of Jackson school, 
 8448 et seq. : — Insufficiency of income from the bequest to pay master's salary in full, and for 
 stationery ; communications with Charitable Bequests Board ; statement of accounts of receipts 
 and disbursements; explanation in reference to masters complaint; litisration threatened by him, 
 8451-GO. 
 
 Management of the estate; rents j)nid up according to recent revaluation; old arrears forgiven; 
 small holdings ; tenantry poor and unimproving, 8458-78. 
 
 Rules and regulations of the school ; explanation as to non-observance of them ; considered 
 school badly taught, and had it placed in connection with Church Education Society, which holds 
 examinations, and gives a trifling encouragement in respect of c'lildren making certain progress; 
 but master got the endowment whether well or ill tauglit ; alteration of rules originally laid down, 
 and substitution of others in j)ractice, but not in writing, 8479-97, 8521. 
 
 As to m.aster's defective qualifications, 8498-9. As to value of inspection and examination by 
 clergy, and as to its sufficiency in the present instance, 8500-20; Hb'I'l-Q. Considers himself 
 badly treated by the master, and avoids going to the school-, 8513. 
 
 Evidence of Jeremiah Kvnne, Esq., a solicitor, churchwarden, and, ex officio, a trustee of Jackson 
 school, 8570. As to construction of Mr. Jackson's will ; thinks the trustees who received the 
 residue of the property liable to make up the deficiency for this school ; terms of will ; communi- 
 cation with Charitable Bequests Board ; considers them wrong, 8571-7. Will of Mrs. Jackson, 8574. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Ilcdhctcl- Dollinii, Esq., late churchwarden ; noiice served on him while 
 churchwarden by master, for recovery of deficiency of salary; concurs in Mr. IS^uune's evidence; 
 management of estate, in comparison with rents of lands of neighbouring estates, 8579. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas Edmond Wrigld, Esq., solicitor for one of the legatees; statement of course 
 taken by the trustees in administration of the trust; terras of will, 8580-6; notice served by 
 master, and notice by representatives of devisees in reply; offer of arbitration, itc, 8581 : ques- 
 tions as to the obligations of the trust and of the executors, and management of the property, 
 8582-6. 
 
 Evidence nf WUliam M'Kean, Esq., one of the representatives of Mrs. Jackson ; hands in 
 valuation of lands by county surveyor ; badly manag'ed, 8587 ; would pay the full charge, with 
 surplus, if properly managed, 8583 : amounts of receipts and expenditure, 8589-95. 
 
 ENDOWMENTS FOR EDUCATION IN PARISH OF SIONAGnAN, BT PHILIP m'kENNA, ESQ., AND RET. 
 
 PATRICK m'gINN, LATE P.P. 
 
 Bequest of £1,000 by Philip M'Kenna, Esq., and of £10 a year by Rev. Patrick M'Ginn, late p.p.: 
 disputed questions as to ajiplication of these endowments, 8G03 et seq. 
 
 Mr. Andrew C. 3fonaIian, u'.aster of Latlurken National School, Monaghan; letter from, claiming 
 the bequests for that school, and complaining of non-payment of salary agreed to be jiaid to hiiu 
 out of them, 8003; evidence to same effect, and as to absence of information as to manner in which 
 the bequests have been applied, 8012-50. 
 
 Right Rev. Charles 2I'X(dhj, Roman Catholic Bishop : Deeds handed in under which the admi- 
 nistration of these funds is claimed by his lordship, as trustee, 8604-11. Evidence of Bishop 
 M'Nally, 8651-84. 
 
 Deed or declaration of trust of bequest by Philip M'Kenna, Esq., for or "towards the education 
 of the children of the parish of Monaghan ;" appointment of trustees ; assets being insufficient to 
 realise £1,000, abatement therefrom, and from other bequests; £900 in 3 per cents., 8604-6. 
 
 Deed of trust of bequest of Rev. Patrick M'Ginn; £10 a j'ear"for the use and purpose of 
 founding, erecting, establishing, and supporting, or a.ssistiug therein, a -school then about or intended 
 to be erected and established in the town of Monaghan, for the education and instruction of the 
 children of poor and indigent parents, inhabitants of the parish of Monaghan," of which school the 
 testator's trustees and their assigns to be subscribers and patrons, and entitled to vote and be 
 members of committee of management, &c., 8610. Appointment of trustees, 8611. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. A. C. Monahan as to the school referred to in Rev. Mr. M'Ginu's bequest; 
 believes it the school taught by himself, 8644-6 ; but built in 1831, the will being in 1818, 8647-8. 
 
 Evidence of Bishop M'Xally as to the administration of the trusts, and their application, 8651 et 
 seq. ; conscientiously bound to apply the money to education, and to the schools in the (la'.ish, but 
 Vol. II. . „ 2 ^
 
 536 ENDOAVED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Monaghan, M'Ginn and M'Kenn.a Endowments — continued. 
 
 under no obligation to apply the entire to Mr. Monalian's school, although he has done so with the 
 exception of a small payment to Annalough school. Account of sums received and paid, 8G.51-G3, 
 86G4, 8609-83. Uncertainty as to school referred to in Rev. Mr. M'Ginn's will, 8(365 ; believes 
 it not the school taught by Mr. Monahan, and that the school intended was never built, 8000-8, 8G71. 
 
 Mo)i'iJain, Andrew C., teacher of Latlurken Male National School, Monaghan ; letter from, relating to 
 endowments of Philip M'Kcniia, Esij., and Ucv. Patrick M'Ginn, 8003 : evi<lcnco, 8012 ei «r/. ; — 
 (see under Mjnaghan.) 
 
 Monaha or Knockdrin school, in parish of Piatliconnell, Co. Westmcath, (see under liaUiconneU,) 
 13095-6. 
 
 Monasterevan, Co. Kildare ; endowment by Lady Anne Viscountess Ely : 
 
 Infnrmation from Reports of previous Inquiries, &.c. : sources of support of schools in parish of 
 Monasterevan, 1388G-7. / 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Rev. Charles Moore, incumbent of Jlonastorevan : — letter from, 1 3885 : evidence, 
 13890 ct seq. An ancient bequest of £3 annually for teaching, and £i as an apprentice fee, paid 
 until year before last, when it was discontinued, 13885, 1389l'-4. — Letter from Rev. C Moore to 
 Mr. Hartford, Registrar of General Fund, apidying for jaymcnt for two years due, 13S99. — Letter 
 from Robert Hartford, Esq., Registrar of Genrral Fund, to Rev. C. Moore, stating that the Lord Chan- 
 cellor having decided that the moneys at disposal of the general fund trustees shall bo applied to 
 Presbyterian purposes, tiiey cannot accede to his application, 13888. Will and litigation upon it, 
 13895 et seq. Believed to be a special gi'aut for Monasterevan, which should not be diverted to 
 other localities, and Presbyterians attended the school to which it was applied, 13885, 13903-5. 
 
 Jlonck, Mr. Richard, late assistant master of Banagher Royal School, King's County ; considers a 
 more extensive and practical system of education required than that at present pursued in ro3'al 
 and grammar or classical schools, which have been stationary and are not ailequate to the require- 
 ments of the present time ; too much time given to classics alone ; should embrace more practical 
 instruction and modern literature, arts, and science ; library, instrunierjts, lectures, exi)eriments, 
 5278. Necessity for supervision, such as visitation at least twice a year ; would encourage emu- 
 lation : check on dismissal of subordinates, which should not be left in hands of head master 
 alone : provision required for retiring pension for well conducted teachers after certain length of 
 service, 5278. 
 
 Monitors : 
 
 As to numbers and arrangements regarding, in respective schools ; see under Names of Schools. 
 Objections to Jlonitorial System ; Burloio, 23051-4. Oximintown, DidAin, Le Pan, 2^009-14. 
 Monitors or pupil-teachers in Incorporated Society's School, Sanlr//, Ardili, 23339-43. 
 
 Abuses in regard to employment of monitors, at Swords Borough School ; sec evidence of Anne 
 M'Gowan, Kate Walsh, &c., under Swords. 
 
 Paid monitors discontinued; Swo?-ds, Kennedy, 14283-90. 
 
 Monl's Schools ; see under Christian Brothers. 
 
 Montague, Rev. Mr. : Letter from Rev. Thomas Kieran, Roman Catholic Curate, Malahide, on the 
 part of; not aware of any school in Swords endowed by Dean Scardeville ; bequest by him, and 
 purchase of Economy Lands (see under (S'(«orc?s), 14989. 
 
 Mooney, Rev. Thomas, head master of Diocesan School, Jlonaghan, as to state and management of the 
 school, and causes of dopressea state of it, 8092-8910, 8919-9088, 9117-9,9120-8, 9139, 9183-4. 
 As to Mr. Cairnes' endowment for a mathematical master at Monaghan, claimed by master of 
 Diocesan school, 9150, 9153-76. — (sec under Monaqhan.) 
 
 Mooney, Mr. William, Teacher in Kilbricken School, (Queen's County (see Kilbridcen) ; evidence of, 
 4928-5025, 5050-05. 
 
 Moore, Rev. Aiihur, Vicar of Emlafadd (Ballymote, Co. Sligo) ; as to endowment for a school at End.a- 
 fadd ; land diverted from its purpo.se : Letter from, 0305 ; JEvidence of, 6307-21. — (See Emlafadd.) 
 
 Moore, Rev. Charles, Incumbent of Monasterevan: — Letter from, 13885 : evidence, 13890 et seq. An 
 ancient bequest of .£3 annually for teaching, and £4 as an ai>prentico fee, paid until year before 
 last, when it was discontinued, 13885, 13892-4. — Correspondence of, with Mr. Ilartibrd, Registrar 
 of General Fund, applying for pnynient for two years due, 13888, 13899. — AVill an.l litigation, 
 13895 etseq. — (See Monasterevan.) 
 
 Moore, Rev. Richard, Rector of St. Patrick's, Limerick : — Evidence of, as to Diocesan School, Limerick, 
 2583-2031 : has had two boys at the diocesan school (sec under Limerick) ; his opinion of its 
 management favourable, 2584-9G, 2G01-7, 2031. Causes of its falling off, 2579-2000, 2607-19, 
 2621-31 : falling olf of other schools, 2020, 2030. 
 
 Moore, Richard and Stephen, Esqrs., endowment by, for a free Protestant School at Clonniel ; sec 
 under Cloiimel Endowed School. 
 
 Moore, Stephen. Esip, of Barn, near Clonmel, Co. Tipperar^'; Evidence of, as to causes of decline of 
 Clonmel Endoweil School ; olijcclion to its not being a boariling school ; master well lilted ; dis- 
 tinguishe<l men cilucated there un<ler former masters, while a large boarding school ; falling off 
 .attributable to the master's pecuniary embarrassments and liabilities referred to by himself (see 
 Mr. Kdtlewcirs evidence, under Clonmel :) if debt removed, and master enabled to carry it on .satisfac- 
 torily, would assuredly be very flourishing; would be siipjiorted by the commercial and trading 
 .ommunity; 906-19, 926. 
 
 Amount of free education, eight free jjupils, not connnensurate to the wants of the town, luit not 
 aware of the reasons for not sending free pupils to the schoid, 924. 
 
 At present many of the resident gentry send their sons to distant i)laccs for education, to Dublin 
 and distant parts of Ireland, and to England, 902-5. 
 Moore, Rev. Theodore 0., Vicar of Clonbroney, Co. Longford: letter relative to be(juest by Sir James 
 Ware for endowment of a Protestant school, at St. Johnstown, 7460: Evidence of, 7104 et seq. — 
 Sec Johnstown.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 537 
 
 Moore, Rev. William Prior, Head Master of Cavan Royal School :— EvMcncc of, 7857 et seq.,8-218el eeq. 
 
 Cowxe of rnMrudion. — Not exclusively chiKsical, several not Icariiiiif; Greek or Latin at all ; 
 English instruction, and some French; coniiru^rcial or niercaiitilo educalion ; details of course of 
 instruction, 7S73-5, 79U1-8002. 
 
 C()iiij)ari.son between younj; men educated in a classical school, and senior class in well managed 
 National school, 8003-7 : relation of school education to the universities, and requirements of the 
 latter, 8008-^0. 
 
 Attempt to introduce industrial or agricultunil instruction ; hut no iiuiiils, the residents being 
 satislied with their own mode of cultivation, 7'J7'J-ii2. 
 
 Scriptural instruction and catechising ; no endeavour to interfere with rcliginus oj)inions of 
 Roman Catholics, who went to their own chapel, and no ohjuction to Roman Catholic clergyman 
 attending them at any time they wished : fatlier of two of thcni rcciucsted they should attend the 
 morning and evening Scripture reading, 7980-90. Never hear<l of any objection to the school on 
 religious grounds; had Roman Catholic pupils before the estalilishmcnt of the Roman Catholic 
 school in the town (see Kiimore Academy), and gave ample satisfaction, 7881. 
 
 Free Pupil-;. — Dilliculty of obtaining free pupils of a class suitable to the school; 8te[is taken liy 
 liini for the purpose in (jU'ering free admissions, 7879-80; never refused any presented, 7910. 
 Suggests that there should be a certain number of free places, the pupils to be selected by a Local 
 Committee from certain classes, ujjon examination; to be admitted for merit and good character, 
 to all the privileges of the school, and treated on equality with other scholars; preferable to mere 
 nomination ; would obviate objections to boj's of diflerent ranks in life mixing in same school, 
 7878, 8021-8027. 
 
 Exkibilions. — Want of oxliibltions before they were established, a cause of parents not sending 
 boys to the school ; others taken away and sent to Enniskillen, where one obtained an exhibition, 
 8028. — Only one exhibition ol)tainc(l for Cavan since they were established ; only £2-3, not suffi- 
 cient to enal)le him to live in Dublin and attend lectures, obliged to give it up ; causes of want of 
 success in obtaining exhibitions ; does not think they have bcnetited the school ; standard of 
 examinati(m for them too high, and iircfcrencc for English Colleges ; but has had boys sent to him 
 from Devon and Kerry, 8030-43. Opinion as to ellcct of exhibitions on school education in this 
 country ; a few young men well grounded and prepared for them in brani-hes prescribed, and some 
 few schoolmasters benetitod, but have not a good efi'ect on education generally, and do not raise 
 its standard, S0i3-7. 
 
 Would be more beneficial if the exhibitions of Royal Schools were thrown open to competition 
 of boys from any and all of those schools, instead of limiting the exhibitions of each to the boys of 
 the particular school ; Cavan exhibitions, £25 ; others, £50 ; would be advantageous to let the 
 latter be open to Cavan as well as others, placing the schools at the same time on equal footing in 
 regard to number of masters allowed out of school funds and otherwise : would induce compe- 
 tition between masters as well as boys, 8048-54. 
 
 Probable effect of throwing open the exhibitions to all schools, and not the Royal Schools only, 
 8055-62. 
 
 ScJiool Staff and Salaries — Head master's salary, formerly £300, subject to charges ; afterwards 
 £200. Present salary, £100 ayear, subject to deductions, and use of nine acres of land ; thinks 
 £300 little enough as a suitalde income for a master, 7S27-9, 7841, 7882-7, 7963: salaries at 
 Armagh, £400 ; Enniskillen, £500, 7949-51. Number of assistants or under-masters and their 
 salaries, and number and salaries that ho considers necessary to make the establishment efficient, 
 7878, 7941-3, 7968-71, 7983. 
 
 Promotion of efficient under-masters to be head masters on vacancies would be beneficial, and 
 better than present mode of appointment, 79S4-5 : promotion from one school to another, 7878. 
 
 Superannuation ; urges a provision of retiring pensions for masters and under-masters after 
 certain length of service; funds or mode of jiroviding for such superannuation, 7878. 7952-7065, 
 7972-3. 
 
 Inspection and Visitation. — School inspected by three Commissioners, three years ago ; no regular 
 inspection ; three visitors appointeil by Clare-street Board, 7871-2 : in report of visitation in 1833, 
 visitations and inquiries into conduct and success of schools recommended, 7S4G ; no such visitation 
 or inquiry since, 8070-1. 
 
 No schools on the endowment lands, nor schools for the tenants, 7978-: has himself a school at 
 Killengen, about half a mile distant; and there is the parochial school in town of Cavan, 7978-80. 
 
 Siygcstlons for improvements in conduct of the school and management of the estate : for 
 assimilation of the several Royal schools; school libraries, and lectures; constitution of 
 local committees, and of the Board of Commissioners, of whom the bishop of the diocese should be 
 one, 7878. 
 
 For further details as to the particular school, see under Cavan. 
 
 Moriarly, Right Rev. Bishop, communication from ; Roman Catholic Poor School, Tralee, Endowments 
 by John C. Hickman and ilr. John Macchivock, 2329. — See under Tralee, Christian Brothers' 
 School. 
 
 Morton, Joseph, Esq., Chairman of Town Commissioners, Wicklow, as to general state of education in 
 locality, and absence of any school for his class in society; defective means resorted to for educa- 
 tion, 13787-8. Evidence as to property which he has heard was bequeathed Ijy a person named 
 Eaton for charitable purposes, out of which schoolhouscs were erected; property now in other 
 hands, 13778-81. — (See under Wicklow.) 
 
 Mountrath, Earl of; endowment by, for a school formerly at Jamestown, in parish of Kiltogard or 
 Kilto'diart, Co. Leitrim : Lands in parish of Clooue, a good schoolhouse also erected by him : no 
 deed of endowment forthcoming; school discontinued and sold, for want of such deed; laud not 
 settled by any legal conveyance, 6804. See JameMown. 
 
 Mountrath, Queen's Co. : Clonenagh, see Clonenagh ; Offerlane, see Offerlans.
 
 538 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Muff, in parish of Faughanvale, Co. Londonderry. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH ENGLISH SCHOOL, AT MUFF. 
 
 Information from l?eporls of j^revious Inquiries, A'c. A free school; built out of Erasmus Smith 
 funds ; couditiuti on which built, that the ground should be convoyed in perpetuity as endowment j 
 other sources of support. Number of pupils at various times, &c., 1059G-8. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Letter from Rev. L. E. Berkeley, Faughanvale, suggesting inquiry ; but does 
 not appear for examination, 10593-5. — Evidence at inquiry subsequently before Mr. Ferguson, 
 Assistant Commissioner, right of visitation of school and examination of children by clergymen of 
 different denominations ; religious instruction, jxiije 307. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Joh a Kyle, master of the school, 10599 et seq. Xumbcr of pupils sixty-four or sixty- 
 five at present, lOGOl, 10G24-G ; but discrepancies in returns of numbers, 10673-99 ; children of 
 poorer chis;>es, fanners and labourers ; of all religious denominations, half Roman Catholics, 
 10611-2, 10G14-J, 10G34-5. Numbers and religious denominations, in May 1^52, page 312. 
 
 Education that of Kildare-place, and books generally those of Church Education Society, 
 10637-9 ; but school not connected with Church Education Society, 10636-41. Books used, 
 sanctioned by Erasmus Smith Board ; none else to be used, 10639 ; rule of the Board that every 
 child shall read the Scriptures daily to the master, 10G42-54. 
 
 Free jmpils, about forty-two or forty-three, 10613,10627 : numbers in 1852 -3-4, less, 10700. Free 
 pupils admitted by order of lie v. Mr. Conroy, superintendent of school, or Mr. Wiggins, representing the 
 Grocers' Company as ]iatron, or by master in nrgent cases ; preference given to children on the 
 Company's estate by Mr. Conroy and Mr. Wiggins, but none refused who apply, 10628-33. Small 
 payment from pupils able to pay, 10659. 
 
 Inspection of school by Rev. Hugh Hamilton, the Inspector of Erasmus Smith Board, once a 
 year; master's reports to Board half yearly, 10604-9, 10714. Inspection and examination by 
 clergymen of the locality, but less latter!}', 10655-8, 10667-72. 
 
 Examination of master before appointment, 10701-4. Has not obtained any of the prizes given 
 by governors to best masters, 10705-13. Has received gratuity from them annually, added to his 
 salary, 10660-6. 
 
 Schoolhouse in good repair ; repairs by whom done, not by governors, 10620-3. 
 
 Other schools in the neighbourhood, 10616-9. 
 
 Evidence of Rn'. John Conroij, Perpetual Curate of the Parish, patron or superintendent of the 
 school, 10593, 10655, 10715. Has been in habit of visiting the school and examining the children, 
 but unable to examine of late from ill health ; absent for twelve months from the parhsh, and no 
 examination for fifteen or eighteen months, 10716-32 : rules of Erasmus Smith supposed to pre- 
 clude visitatiou and examination by other than the prescribed authorities; and objection to visiting 
 and examining by ri,ev. Mr. Berkeley, a Presbyterian minister, 10733-8. Numbers of Established 
 Church and Presbyterian pupils respectively, 10739-45. Has not the least objection to Mr. 
 Berkeley visiting the school, and examining Presbyterian children ; complaint and correspondence 
 with Erasmus Smith Board on the subject, 10738-50. 
 
 Further evidence of Mr. Conroy at inquiry before Mr. Ferguson, Assistant Commissioner, into 
 complaint of Rev. Mr. Berkeley, pages 310, 312. 
 
 Evidence of Ilenr;/ Wiggins, Esq., Land Agent of Grocers' Company, patrons of the school; 
 religious instruction, catechising, and examination, page 313. 
 
 Frirther evidence of Mr. Ki/Ie, Master, as to dispute between Mr. Berkeley and Mr. Conroy on 
 religious examination of pupils, jxx^re 314. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, ic, of Erasmus Smith Board (see under Erasmus Smith,) 
 23066-7. 
 Mullaghmore, Co. Armagh : 
 
 Evidence of George Miller, Esq., Agent to the Armagh Royal School estates, 9664-9698 : — a 
 school on the estate f<jr the benefit of the sons of tho tenantry, at Mullaghmore ; occasionally visits 
 it ; the clergyman of the pari.^ih. Rev. Mr. Foster, has inspecteil it ; about thirty pupils ; increasing in 
 attendance lattdy; numbers returned in 1850-2, from 128 to 140 ; cannot account for the discrep- 
 ancy, 9665-9686. Rental of Royal School estate in neighl)OurlHiod of Mullaghmore, .£1,489; due 
 on it, .£143 ; no leases, tenants at will, 9688-90. Hands in his account with the Commissioners ; 
 has balances iu hand alway.s, 9692-8. — (See as to estates and management, Ac, of Royal schools, 
 under Armagh and other Royal schools. Estates, Commissioners of Education.). 
 Mullin, Mr. Joseph, Master of Blue Coat School, Limerick: Evidence of; cause of diminution in 
 numlicr of scholars ; school unsatisfactory ; merely for choir boys, who are dismissed or leave when 
 their voices change, 2846 et seq., 3200 et seq., 3433-6. As to clothing or apprenticing the boys, 
 2867, 29 1 6-20, 3200-2. Absence of any proper inspection, examination and catechising, 2946-49. 
 — (Sec under Limericl:) 
 Mullinqar: Inquiry ami evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education ia 
 Co. Westmeath, 13089 d seq. 
 
 Diocc.9an school, 13121 et seq., and page 301. 
 
 Farra institution ; see Farm. 
 
 Hevey's endowment for a charity school at Jlullingar, 13357 el seq. 
 
 DIOCESAN SCHOOL. 
 
 Acts of P.irliamcnt under which diocesan schools are established, 12 Eliz. c. 1 ; 12 Geo. I. c. 9 ; 
 Act of 1813, for uniting dioceses into .school districts ; 59 Geo. III. c. 84, 13121-2, 13128. 
 
 Reports of various Inquiries ; didicnhy of providing and suj)porting diocesan schools; union of 
 dioceses of Meath and .'\rdagii into a district for a school at Mnllingar in |)laco of schools at Long- 
 ford and Trim ; small nnnilicr.H of |>upils, 13123-40; refusal <if presentments by Grand .Juries, not 
 being compulsory, 13121, 13128-9, 13133. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Letter from Rev. Gustavus Warner representing the want of a school for sons
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 539 
 
 Mullingar, Diocesan Scliool — contiiiiicil. 
 
 of clergy anJ rospoctalilo inliabitaiitM ; forced to scnil tlicir cliildrcn to England, Dublin, and else- 
 where, tlioiigli coutril)iitiiig to diocesan Hclioolmastcr, who has no school or [)n])iiF, 13142. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Edward J. (!e(j(jhe(jan, Master of Diocesan School, l.'iHG ; schoolhouse his 
 private ])ropcrty, 13117 ; in bad and inconvenient situation, 13219-2G ; salary abont £140 a-year, 
 how made up and what for, 13244-53 ; has no pupils ; had two in July ; ten in 1841 ; cause of 
 falling off; no inducements to conic to the school; no scholarships, or exhildtions, or prizes, 
 13148-.50, 131GS ; wishes for exhibitions like those of the Royal schools, 13238-44 ; discrepancies 
 in returns of numbers how made out, 13152-Gl ; school never visited by Clare-street Board ; no 
 rules for his guidance ; management of school left to his own discretion; not rciiuired to report 
 beyond the returns of numbers, 131G2-7. 
 
 As to want of classical schools, 13151, 131G9-70; has never given commercial or mercantile 
 education s]iccially, 13171-1); gives English education with c!a^:sical ; considers his a classical 
 school ; other schools for English education, 13202-18. 
 
 Free pupils ; number at different times, and howadmitted, 13180-5, 13101-9 ; apjdied to Clare- 
 street Board for guidance as to admission of free pupils and was referred to Act of rarliaracut ; 
 left to his discretion, 1318G-90. 
 
 Has had Bonian Catholic pujiils ; uo interference with religious persuasion ; Scriptures read by 
 Protestants, 13227-37. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Thomas Woodward, Vicar of Mullingar. — Diocesan school is not in operation so 
 far as education of pupils is concerned, 13144 ; no pupils, 13273-4 ; suggestions for improvement ; 
 want of exhibitions, 13257-8, 132G8, 13273, 13278-90, 1330G-9 ; a good niidiUe class mercantile 
 school, with modern languages, more wanted than a classical school ; would have a good attend- 
 ance, 13259-G8, 13291-305 ; prevalent dissatisfaction with the diocesan school, 13269-72. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Gibson, formerly a jjupil at Mullingar Diocesan School; in his time only 
 two pupils besides himself, 13313-8; high order of education there, 13319-20; small number of 
 pupils, 13321-3G ; causes of falling ofij 13337-8 ; want of remodelling of schools, to suit require- 
 ments of the time, by introduction of modern languages, sciences, chemistry, and requirements fur 
 public situations now thrown open, 13339 et seq. 
 
 Letter froM Ri.v. E. Tiglie Greyory, Rector of Kilmore, with enclosures, as to the substitution of 
 one school at Mullingar for two schools formerly at Longford and Trim, and sale of the latter 
 properties, 2)a<je 301 : uo scholars at Mullingar Diocesan School, page 302. 
 
 FARRA INSTITUTION. 
 
 Under Incorporated Society ; see Farra, 
 
 HEVEY ENDOWMENT FOR A CHARITY SCHOOL AT MULLINGAR. 
 
 Will of James Hevej', Esq., of Mullingar, bequeathing lands for support, maintenance, and 
 education of poor children in Parish of Mullingar, to be fully educated in branches of literature, 
 science, and theology, without religious distinction, and for building a school or college for children 
 from amongst persons not in opulent circumstiinces, 13357, 133G7-8. 
 
 Minutes of trustees of Hevey Charit)' ; settling the course of instruction ; under Christian 
 Brothers ; arrangements for erection of buildings, selection of children, annual and other meetings 
 of trustees, ikc, 13358. 
 
 Letter from Mr. William Ford respecting the proceedings of the trustees since death of 
 Mr. Ilevey, in 1837, in management of lauds, erection of buildings, provision for education and 
 maintenance of children, <tc., 13359. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Ford : — Present state of buildings, and particulars of building contracts, and 
 accommodation, 133G0-G. As to management and application of the funds hitherto and pending 
 the opening of the new school buildings, 133G9-84. Annual accounts and publication, 13385-7. 
 Course of instruction, that of the Christian Brothers, a good English education, 13398-402 ; pro- 
 vision for classical instruction, 13404-12. As to provision of will making the endowment open 
 to children of all religious denominations, not excepting Protestants, and as to effect of placing the 
 school under the Christian Brothers, in reference to this provision, 13395-7, 13417-34. 
 Munster Provincial School ; high character of it ; its rules, 1103-7. 
 
 Micrland, James IF., Esq., Inspector of school estates for this Commission of Inquiry : report from, 
 as to large bills of costs of Solicitors of Clare-street Commissioners of Education in respect of Dun- 
 gannon School estate, 23549 ; and correspondence with Mr. Wann, agent of the property, on the 
 subject, 23550. Report of, as to Banagher lloyal School Estates, arrears, and costs, 23719. — (See 
 under Commissioners of Education, Fetherston.) 
 
 Murphy, Mr. Henry Charles, Second Master Cavan Royal School ; Evidence of (see under Cavan), 
 8075-95. ' 
 
 J/jir^j/iy, J^osf;j/(, formerly a schoolboy in Borough School of Swords; Evidence of, as to jiractice of 
 flogging in that school (see Swords), 155G4-83, 15632-5. 
 
 Murphy, Matthew ; Endowment by, for school at Carlow, 75, 78 et seq.: see Carlow. 
 
 Murphy, Mr. Thomas, Master of Erasmus Smith School, Pallasgreen, Co. Limerick ; Evidence of, 
 4256 et seq. 
 
 Breakfast formerly given to pupils in the schoolhouse, and consequent increase of scholars, 4271- 
 81 ; falling off on discontinuance of breakfast, 4282-9. In 1854 some clothing also given, 4290- 
 1, 4329-31 ; in 1853 a number withdrawn to another school (Boheroe) not now in existence, and 
 other causes of diminution, 4292, 4302, 4387-9. 
 
 Funds from which food and clothing were supplied, local subscriptions ; food served out under 
 superintendence of master and rector, who is patron of the school, 4279-80, 4340. Accounts for 
 food rendered to Rev. Mr. Scott, Rector, and Rev. Mr. Turner, Missionary Curate, 4334-5, 4362-86. 
 
 Of one hundred and ten boys and girls in school in 1853, all Protestants except nine, 4310; 
 nearly all had been Roman Catholics previously, 4312-3; most of the scholars converts, 4267 ; 
 some gone back to their previous religious professions, 4267, 4326, 4328 ; none originally Protestant
 
 540 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Murpliy, Mr. Thomas, rallasgre.ei), — ■continuod. 
 
 became llor.iau Catliolics, 435C ; mnuliers who clmngeJ, 4343-55 ; ftirtlier details as to change of 
 religion, manner and time tliercof, 4314-28, 435G-(j1 ; does not think the giving of bveakfa.-t 
 influenced the change of religion; very few Roman Catholic children at the time, and they too 
 yonug to think of religious convictions ; all got food indiscriminately, 435S-G1. 
 
 Performance of Divine Service at schoolhouse, which is licensed for same, 4402-4. 
 
 Inspection of school by Rev. Mr. Hamilton and Rev. Mr. Scott, on part of Erasmus Smith Board, 
 4403-9, 4451 ; also by inspector of Church Education Society, the .«chool being in connection with 
 that Society as well as Erasmus Smith Board, 4452-Gl, 44GG ; local clergymen habitually visiting 
 the school, 4441-4 ; and hulies who visit the girls school, 4444-5, 44G5 ; examination of the 
 children by the clergymen, 444G-51. 
 
 Needlework, etc., of girls in school, under lady visitors, who pay them for their work ; girls get 
 the profit, except some stojipage for clothing and incidental expenses, 44G2-4. 
 
 Another school on Erasmus Smith lands. National School, Roman Catholic clergyman patron ; 
 well attended, 4390-3. 
 
 (See further, under Palla$qreen.) 
 ATurrai/, Archbishop : — Letters from, to Josiah Forster, Esq., respecting Swords Borough School, 
 
 16320-1 ; paje 302 ; see Swords. 
 Murray, Archihakl. Esq., a partner in firm of Todd and Co., Limerick : Evidence of, as to state of 
 education in locality, and deficiency of commercial education : Limerick boys less fitted by educa- 
 tion for situations than boys from the country, who arc found to bo more useful and better educated 
 for commercial purposes, 4149 et scq. Young men better educated in Scotland than in Ireland, 
 4173. Greater facilities for good commercial education in Limerick would be a great benefit to 
 trade and commerce, 4174 et scq. 
 Murray, Robert, Esq., Manager of the Provinci.il Bank of Ireland, Dublin: — Evidence of, as to general 
 state of education in Dublin, and want of ade<[uate provision for sar.ie, 23487-517. 
 
 Qualifications of clerks in the bank, tested by examination ; nature of it ; promotion and advance- 
 ment of clerks who distinguish themselves, 23489-94, 23497, 23515-7. 
 
 Previous education of young men who come up for examination for clerkships in the bank, 
 exceedingly defective; in many instances miserably deficient in the knowledLre of arithmetic; 
 particulars of other defects, 23495-7. Defective education in Ireland generally, except in some 
 districts, 2349.5, 23497-9, 23504-7. 
 
 Difficulty of establishing proprietary schools in Dublin in consequence of disunion ; not easily 
 brought about to have all classes and persuasions sitting on the same forms; would wish for mixed 
 schools, 23308—13. 
 
 Thinks the fact of Trinity College h.aving made arithmetic a portion of the entrance examination 
 must have a very beneficial effect upon education. Arithmetic too much neglected in the public 
 schools ; classics are cultivated more, 23502-3, 23514. 
 
 Musmms attached to schools and instruction in Natural Sciences; (see Sciences ) LondonJen-y, Gwyn 
 Institution, Skijiton, 11057-62. Want of; Kyle, 21270-4. And sec witnesses under General State 
 of Education. 
 
 Music and Singing; advantage of, as part of education. C'rk, Duggan. 1254-6, 1292-G ; Somervillc, 
 1430-5, 14G0-7. C'/onmel, Canavan, 989-994. Maryborouf/h, Cassan, 5127-9. Oxmantowu, 
 Dublin, Le Pan, 22615-23. Wexford, Booth, 525. 
 
 Choral Schools ; see Choral. 
 
 Nnas: Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education in 
 Co. Kildare, \2>T6'.} et scq. 
 
 Diocesan school, 13907 (t seq., 13949 ct seq. 
 
 General state of education and provision for same, 13943 et seq., 13962 et seq. 
 
 noCESAN SCnOOL FOR KIIiDAnl!. 
 
 Act of 12 Eliz. c. 1, for erection of a free school in every diocese, 13907. 
 
 Information from previous Eepoits, Returns, kc. : — Numbers of pupils, state of building, &c., 
 13908-18. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Evidence of Master of Kildare Diocesan School (/nr. Jeremiah Lane, Esq., M.B., 
 read Rev. J. Lane,): ])resent number of pupils, eleven, six of them his own childien ; average for 
 last five years, fifteen, 13921, 13923. School has ceased to be a boarding school, 13921-2; ha.s 
 one free pujiil ; never refused any ; under no obligation to receive any ; no instructions on the 
 subject, 13924-G. No other classical school in nrighbourhood ; causes of decline of the school, 
 notwith.standing favourable situation, 13929-30, 13942 ; Roman Catholics not excluded, but have 
 withdrawn, 13930-3; has had fifteen Roman Catholics, sometimes four or three ; no interference 
 with their religion ; Scrii)tures read, but at end of day, after Roman Catholics have left ; objec- 
 tion.s of Priesthood led to withdrawal of Roman Catholic pupils, 13949-01. 
 
 English education given, not modern languages ; not sufiicicnt school for employment of a 
 language-master, 13934-5. 
 
 Schoolhouse kept in repair by county, and prescnlmcnts made, 13936-8. 
 
 OKNKllAI, STATE OF EDUC.A.TIOS AND moVISION FOR SAME. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Si okes II 'i yes, Esq., Coroner: — Naas a good locality for a good school ; woidd 
 be well attended if Protestant and Roman Cathidic children could be brought to mix together ; 
 not Protestants enough to sui)port a good school for them alone ; objections of Roman Catholics 
 especially where master a Protestant, 13943-8. Better provision for free j)laccs rc(|uired, 13962-4. 
 As to provision and ])rospects of a good English school if established in the locality, 13965-70 ; 
 Government aiil required, 13971. As to an educational tax and objections to it, 13972-5. 
 
 Evidence of John llickey, Es(|., Chairman of Town Commissioners : — Thinks a good mercantile 
 and classical tchool, with modern languages, without di.•^ti^ction of religious opinions, would
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 541 
 
 Naas, Co. Kililare — continued. 
 
 succeed, 13979-80, 13987-9 ; cliildreii at present sent to a distance, 13981 ; objection.s of Pioman 
 Catholic.? to send tiicir diililrcii to diocesan school under a Protestant master, 13982-fi ; for e.stal>- 
 lishnient of a <,'ood .sciiool, j)iildi<^ funds recjuireil, 13990 ; hnt nnwillingne.ss to jjay an educational 
 tax, 13993-14000. 
 
 Evidence of J amen Kellett, Esc]., Sui'j,'eon : — Agrees with Dr. Hayes's evidence (supra) ; a good 
 school would have good attendance, 14005 ; objections to educational tax, 14000-9 ; certainly would 
 prefer paying out of tlie Consolidated Fund, 14010. 
 
 Evidence of Eev. Walter De Iliuy/i, Vicar: — Objections to an educational tax, li0[2 ef seq. ; 
 appointment of a Roman Catholic assistant teacher for diocesan school would meet objections of 
 many, 14013. 
 
 Nasli, Mr. Ualph, Bocdc-laicper to Mr. Mahony, Secretary, Kent Collector and Agent of Blue Coat 
 School Charity, Limerick ; Evidence of, as to nature of the property, condition of the houses, rents, 
 &c., 3Gl;'5-52. — (_Sce under Limeiick.) 
 
 National Schools : 
 
 Effects of, on education of middle classes; diminution and disappearance of intermediate schools 
 and private schoolmasters; A'irk, 9G42, 9648-61; Bland, 4881-8; Kennedy, 14825. Belfast, 
 Allen, 10447-8; Bruce, 10460-71; M'Cosh, 10516. Beneficial eflect of, on lower classes, in 
 raising condition of pupils, Mayo, Coury, 6236-48 ; injurious effect of, on middle classes, by 
 depriving ihcm of other schools, which previously existed, Slirjo, Clarke, 6751-6. 
 
 Successful competition of Model National Schools, and interfcren<'e with Grammar Schools or 
 schools for middle classes ; Oaiirai/, KiUeen, 5598-5606 ; Ilallowell, 20226-47 ; Nesbitt, 23146-56. 
 Clonmel, Malcomson, 1050-9, 1078-9. Gentlemen's sons at present educated in National schools, 
 would be better in endowed school, Navan, Kelly, 13015-8. 
 
 As to teachers of, in Mayo, see Btichanan ; National Schools in Mayo, see Cassan. See Inter- 
 mediate Schools, Religion, Ac. : and see under respective names of Schools or Localities. 
 
 Nattiral Sciences, as a jiart of Education ; sec Sciences. 
 
 Naval, Military, and Civil Service ; competition for appointments in ; sec Ap>23oinlmeyits. 
 
 Navan: Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education in Co. 
 Meath, 12409 ei serj. 
 
 Preston endowment, under Clare-street Board, 4746 et seq. 
 Kilbricken school, Preston estate, 4915 et serp 
 
 Meath Diocesan Seminary, Konum Catholic unendowed school : and general state of education, 
 13019 eisfg-. 
 
 PRESTON ENDOWMENT ; UNDER CLARE-STREET BOARD. 
 
 Information froih Repjorts of previous Inquiries, &c., 4746-4763 ; Kcport of Commissioners of 
 Inquiry in 1807 ; account of the foundation of schools at Navan and Ballyroan, Queen's County, 
 (see BaUi/roan), bv Alderman John Prcstun, of Dublin, and bequest to Oxmantown Hospital, or 
 Blue Coat School, Dublin, (see Oxmantown,) 4747-50, 12863. Salaries of master and assistants, 
 i'c, fixed in 1776 by decree of Chancellor, 12864. Commissioners in 1807 report "shameful 
 abuses" in Navan and Ballyroan Establishments : same person master of both sciiools, received 
 salary of £180 a-year for thirteen j'ears, and never taught a single scholar in cither; non- 
 resident; want of suflicieut control over estates and conduct of schools, 4749-51. Proceedings 
 regarding estates of this valuable foundation ; petition to Chancery, 1817, for removal of trustees 
 and transference to Education Commissioners, 14753 ; concerns of the Charity brought into Chancery 
 in 1735 ; various and long-pending proceedings in Chancery, 4750, 4753-4760 ; estates then 
 transferred (1834) to control and management of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 
 47-33,4759-60. In 1844, repeated memorials reported from tenants complaining of the manage- 
 ment of the estates and the state of their accounts ; inquiry and proceedings thereon, 4762, 12873. 
 Decree in Chancery for appointment of trustees, in 1828, thus terminating suit begun in 1735, 
 ninety-three years before, 12866. Visitations and proceedings at various times to correct abuses 
 and niisuianagement in conduct of these schools; visitation in 1814, dismissal of master, Eev. 
 Joseph Preston, from Ballyroan School, 4751 : (for further measures at Ballyroan. see Ballyroan). 
 
 E,ev. Mr. Preston resigned mastershiji of Navan School, and Rev. Francis T). Hamilton ap- 
 pointed in 1807, but did not intend to reside nor perform the duties in person, never having been 
 engaged in such duties, and indeed no sufficient employment for master or even for usher, from 
 small number of pupils, 12865. Visitation of Navan School in 1836, 12870. 
 
 Schoolhouse (in 1807-12) in bad repair, and no accommodation for boarders ; grant of 30 acres 
 of land for the school by Corporation of Navan, for erection thereon of new school-buildings out of 
 savings of endowment ; but owing to misconduct and mismanagement of funds, grant never carried 
 into eflect, 12865 : good classical and English schools at Navan much required, and would be very 
 advantageous; suggestions for eii'ecting the object, 12865. 
 
 Steps taken for placing the schools on more satisfactory footing and rendering them efficient, in 
 1828-30, new schoolhouse erected, 12866-7 : visitntion of Navan School in 1836, from represen- 
 tations of its inefficiency : resignation of master and assistant, 12870 : appointment of new school- 
 master, repairs, provision of play-ground, 12871-2. 
 
 Amount of money and disbursements, 12864, 12866-7, 4763. Number in Navan School at 
 various times ; small number of pupils, 12868-9, 12874-6. 
 
 PrcseM Inquiry. — Evidence of William Legg, Esq., Head M.aster : No. of pupils, six day boys, 
 four of whom free ; no boarders, 12878-81, 12910-11, 12915 : formerly more ; causes of decline, 
 12882-6. Discrepancies in different returns of numbers, 1^926-46. 
 
 Free boys admissible by Bishop of Meath and patrons of the school, but not sent in by them ; 
 admitted by master, who refuses none, 12912-4, 13007. 
 
 Extent of accommodation for boarders, and for masters, 12895-907. 
 Vol. II. 4 A
 
 542 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Navan, Preston EnJowraoat, — continueJ. 
 
 Building in joo'l repair, 12893-4: want of play-groiind, 12968-9 ; former play-ground occupied 
 bv stable and coachhouse h'.silt for master, who keeps cow.s and a farm, 12970-84 ; has also super- 
 intendenee of Savings' Bank, 12955-7. Salaries and endowments of master from the school, 
 12991-13005 : amount of advantage from the school ; education of the six hoys costs £197 a-year, 
 12947, 13006. 
 
 Boj's who have left for other schools, 12916-7. Other schools in the iieighbourhoo'l, 12918- 
 20 : a large Roman Catholic school in Navan ; receives Protestant boys also, 1298G-90. 
 
 Course of instruction ; in classics the entrance course, and usual English branches, Euclid 
 algebra, mensuration, 12890. Boys bring their own books, 12891. 
 
 School hours, ten to two ; no other school in Ireland gives four hours only, 12958-67. 
 
 No inspection of school ; an annual report or return to Clare-street Commissioners of Edu- 
 cation; Dr. EIrington and Bishop of Cork visited ten years ago, 12887-9, 12908-9. 
 
 For improvement of school, suggests that exhibitions should be established 12892, 12920-5, 
 12947-8 : would not object to Eoman Catholic school being similarly endowed, 12949. 
 
 Evidence of John Kelly, Esq., Classical Master of Navan School, 13008, el seq. : suggests that the 
 school should be removed to Kells, where it would be more useful and succeed better, 13009-10; 
 or it miuht be better if removed a little out of the town of Navan, 13013; gentlemen's sons at 
 present educated in national schools, would be better in the endowed school, 13015-8. 
 
 KILBIIICKEN fClIOOL : PRESTON ESTATE. 
 
 Unsatisfactory and depressed state of Kiibricken School (Queen's County) for tenantry of Preston 
 estate in connexion with Navan and Ballyroan schools, 4915 ei seq. : — see Kiihricken. 
 
 MEATH DIOCESAX SEMIXART, ROMAX CATHOLIC UNEXroWED SCHOOL : — GENERAL STATE OF EDTTCATION 
 
 AND PROVISION FOR SAME. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Nicl'olas Power, Head Master of Meath Diocesan Seminary, 13019 et seq. : 
 not an endowed school, 13024 : number of scholars, nearly seventy boarders and fifty day scholars, 
 13021-2. Preparation of boys for Mayuooth, and for professions and commercial pursuits ; there 
 have been some Protestants; no religious denomination excluded, 13064-7. 
 
 Course of education, classics, science, and commercial, a general English education, and French 
 without extra charge ; liow managed ; details of instruction and of arrangements for carrying on 
 combined education in these branches, 13023 et seq. : importance of modern languages; would 
 wish to introduce German, 13039-43. 
 
 Judgments abandoned, parents not attending to them, 13057. Prizes at end of year, from profits 
 of the establishment, 13059. No corporal punishment, 13000-1. Attendance regular, 13062-3. 
 
 Suggestions as to general education of middle classes ; absence of preparatory schools, swallowed 
 up by national s^'Steiu ; difficulty of getting lads sufficiently prepared or to remain long enough 
 for good education, on account of expense, 13068, 13083-4. Would leave education open to com- 
 petition without endowed schools at all, 13069, 13080-2. Thinks tbey never succeed; grounds 
 of his objection to them, 13073. 
 
 If the funds could be brought together and distributed in prizes for competition, would be the 
 best stimulant to education, 13069, 13075. 
 
 Throwing open ])ublic appointments and commissions to public competition would be a strong 
 stimulant, 13070-2, 13075. 
 
 Want of a Board of supervision and inspection of schools generally, public and private, Protes- 
 tant and Catholic ; annual visitation of every school, although unendowed, 13073-6. 
 
 Further general observations and reference to the Prussian, French, and Austrian systems, 
 13075 eisc-g. 
 Needlework : 
 
 Schools in which practised and how managed ; Cork, St. Peter's School, 21C6 ; Burke, 2234-49. 
 Downpatrick, Quade, 10220-2 et seq., 10248. Fallasgreen, Murphy, 4462-4. 
 
 Abuses in regard to, in Swords Borough School ; see Swords. 
 See further under particular schools. 
 
 Nelson, Mr. lluherl, former master of Killough school, Co. Down : statement by, as to his removal by 
 improper interference of agent of property on which it stood, 9780. — (See Killmie/h.) 
 
 Nelson, Rev. Samttel Craig ; Evidence of, as ttt a school at Rathmullen, Co. Donegal, a national school, 
 not endowed, 10291-5. Evidence of, at Downpatrick, as to general state of education, and pro- 
 vision for same in the locality; and Endowment by' Thcophilus Gardiner, 10284-90, 10296-8. 
 
 Numlier of schools at Downpatrick not ileficient ; Dioces.an and Committee schools, for middle or 
 higher cla.sses ; and a Presbyterian school, not always open ; for otiier classc.'^. Blue Coat llo.-<pital. 
 National 8(diools, and other schoids in the town : rather too many schools than too few ; a smaller 
 number, better endowed and better managed, preferable, 10284. 
 
 An increa.=e of the endowment for the diocesan school would make it exceedingly useful to the 
 town and neighbourhood by enabling master to have an efficient stad'of assistants ; testimony to effi- 
 ciency of nia.ster and rcsj>ect in which be is held ; his own children educated by him ; might bo 
 made a first-rate diocesan .scliocd with a little assistance, 10286-90. Probable number of additional 
 pupils and necessity for additional endowment notwitiistanding, 10296-8. 
 
 Endowment by Thcophilus Gardiner for old Lancasterian school and for infant school, not now 
 in operation, 10284-5. 
 Neshiit, Wil/iam, Professor of Greek in G.'ilway College, and formerly of Latin for five years: — 
 Unfairness of Mr. Killecn's statement (sec under Ga'iiay,) as to students admitted into College 
 from Galway Erasmus Smith Grammar School; favourable account of the stuilents who have 
 entered from it into College, 23133. Favourable account of the school ; examination of pupils in 
 it, very credilablo to master, Mr. Ilallowcll, 23134-45. Disadvantages under which the Galway 
 Grammar School labours, 23163-5.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 543 
 
 NesbUl, Professor, Galway, — contiin!cJ. 
 
 Model Nalioiial Scliool ; exaiiiinatiou, and higli opinion of instruction in it ; brandies of instruc- 
 tion, 23l4G-5tJ. 
 
 Standard for entrance into Galway College lo\7cr than desirable, owing to bad state of interme- 
 diate cihication, 2;U34. 
 
 Intermediato education in the ])r()vincc, at vcr^' low chii ; almost impossihle for middle class to 
 obtain tlic necessary amount of iiistrnctiou for entering College ; and small number of stuilents in 
 College owing to this cause, 23157. lias no duul)t good classical schools would have good attend- 
 ance of scludara, who would come to College in a diU'erent state of preparation, and would leave it 
 better prepared for their various callings, 23158. 
 
 Of thirty-five pupils in Erasmus Smith School, no less than eighteen free pupils; embarrassing 
 to master from dislike of better classes to send children to mix with free pupils : indiscriminate 
 admission of free pupils, upon no princi]>lo : suggests that admissions should be confined to those 
 uual)lo to ))ay, and those exhibiting aptitude for higher branches of education ; admission for merit 
 and aptitude would do away with discredit attaching to admissions on the foundation, l;3158- C3. 
 Nevilli>, John, Esq., County Surveyor, Co. Louth : — Letter from; alleged incompetency of late master 
 of Dundalk Endowed School to teach mathematics, and recommendation that master should bo 
 required to obtain a certificate of qualification from a Board of Examiners, 12355. — Evidence; 
 refers to the Dundalk Endowed School, in Chapel-lane, but not to the present master of it, 12356. 
 
 Neichriihje and Castlemacadam Schools, Co. Wicklow : 
 
 Letter from Iicv. Fiancis Alexander Sanders, Rector of Castlemacadam ; knows nothing of an 
 endowed school at Newbridge, Castlemacadam, to which a grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund is 
 stated to have been made ; there is a National School, under patronnge of Eev. Mr. Kearney, P.P. 
 of Newbridge, attached to Roman Catholic Chapel, 13740. 
 
 H;>n. and Rev. William Wingfield, A'icar of Abbcyleix, one of the guardians of Lord Powers- 
 court's estate, 1 374.j-(j ; Newbridge Chapel-school was built partly by grant from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund ; school still in existence, 13748-50. 
 
 Other school, see Castlemacadam. 
 
 Nmvenliam, Rev. Henry, one of tlic Trustees of Blue Coat Hospital, Cork ; evidence of, 1519-15G1. 
 (See under Cork.) 
 
 Newport, Ilev. James John, Curate of AnnadufT, Co. Leitrim ; evidence of, G922-8 : (see Anuaduff.) 
 
 Night Schools ; see Evening Schools. 
 
 Nolan, Rev. Thomas, p.p., Abbeyleix ; communication from, as to the "school at Ballyroan, which 
 appears not to be in operation, as there are but few, if any, children in attendance," 47G2 : (see 
 Ilall>/roan.) 
 
 Letter from, as to school at Abbeyleix, endowed by Lady Lanesborough ; no trace of it, 5100. 
 
 Nomination of free scholars; see Free Places. 
 
 Noi-man, T. Lee, Esq., Corballis, Co. Loutli : letter from, as to Erasmus Smith endowment for a school 
 at Glyde Farm (see Clyde Farm,) 12253. 
 
 NoHh, AVilliara, Esq., or Hon. William, or Baron North, or Dr. Edward North, Bishop of Killaloe; 
 endowment by, Blue Coat School or St. Stephen's Hospital, Cort ; see under Cork. 
 
 Nunne, Jeremiah, Esq., Solicitor, churchwarden, and a trustee of Jackson Boys and Girls School, 
 Jiouaghan; Evidence of, 8570 et seq. (see under Monaghan, Jackson School.) 
 
 Nurseries or schools for infant children ; under Incorporated Society, discontinued ; Evidence of Rev. 
 Richard Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Society, 23299-301, 23303. 
 
 None under Erasmus Smith Board ; Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Inspector and Registrar 
 of Erasmus Smith Board, 24230-G. 
 
 Oatlunds, Co. Cork : (Lord Lieutenant's Fund.) 
 
 Jnformalionfrom previous lleporls, &c. — Reporteil in 1826 as a Protestant free school, a parochial 
 school, with grant for building, from Lord Lieutenant's Fiind, 11C5. Account of Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, llGl. Income from other sources ; nuuiber of pupils ; a slated house in good repair, 11G5, 
 1167. 
 
 rrcsait Inquiry. — T. Wcdton Knolles, Esq., Oatlands, in parish of Kilmanagh or Kilmonogue, 
 Kinsalc, landlord of the schoolhouseand premises : — Letter from, representing that the school is not 
 now in o))eration, the late master having been dismissed six or seven years ago, but holds the 
 house and lands in spite of all attempts to eject him, leaving his family in possession while he lives 
 elsewhere, 1 147. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Knolles to same eliect, IICS et seq. Curate finding the master incompetent, 
 dismissed him both as clerk and sclioolnnister ; had beeu twenty years in possession without pa^'ing 
 rent ; Archdeacon, who is rector, brought ejectment eight or ten years ago and failed, for want of 
 jurisdiction in Assistant Barrister, llGS-9, 117G; uo school at all in the parish since, 1168. 
 
 Documents handed in ; lease or deed of trust to minister and churchwardens ; an acre and a half 
 and house built with two grants from Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; possession transferred bj^ late 
 schoolmaster to another person, who is now in occupation, 1168, 1170. 
 
 Evid(nce of George Daunt, Es(|., resident in parish of Kilmonogue, to similar effect ; late school- 
 master has the lessee's counterpart of the couvc3'ancc, which siiould be with the archdeacon and 
 churchwardens, who have it not ; proceedings in Assistant Barrister's Court failed for want of 
 jurisdiction on question of title ; no jiroceedings since in superior courts on account of expenses, 
 1171-9. 
 
 Evidence of Hercides M'Donnell, Esq , Secretary of the Charitable Bequests Board, as to the 
 case, 23172-3. 
 
 O'Brien, Rev. Ilenry James, head master of Diocesan School, and Rector of Kilcully, Co. Cork ; 
 Evidence of, as to Cork Diocesan School, 1181-1241, 1G91-3. 
 Vol. II. 4 A 2
 
 544 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 O'Brien,, Rev. Henry James, Cork, — continued. 
 
 Free pupils; no control over Lim in regard to admission; if he received none, would be 
 entitled to the endowment, 1188, 1196, 1202-10: uses of endowment, £73, education of free 
 pupils, and support of a classical school, which would uot otherwise exist, 1200-2, 1209-13. 
 
 Course of instruction ; English aud classical, modern languages, and science, 1191 ; classical and 
 conimercial education combined, without clashing ; thinks it advantageous, diversity of pursuit 
 beneficial to the boys, 1220-4 ; utility of modern languages, 1225. 
 
 No inspection of the school ; only an annual return by himself to the Clare-street Commissioners 
 of Education; no authority over management of the school ever exercised but his own, 1197-9. 
 Thinks a little supervision good and necessary, 1237. 
 
 Exhibitions attached to the school, none, 1194, 1226 : irijurious efi'ects of want of exhibitions, 
 1227-9. — Would throw open exhibitions to general competition, not confine them to individual 
 establishments, 1230. 
 
 Great advantage to youth and to masters of schools, of throwing open commissions and appoint- 
 ments in public service to competition, if the examination be conducted by men above .suspicion, 
 and without favouritism ; illustration of advantage, 1235-7, 1691-3. 
 
 See further as to particular school, under CorJc. 
 
 O'Brien, John, Esq., Town Clerk, Waterford : Evidence of, as to records and documents relatina; to 
 the Corporation Free School, AVaterford, 234-61, 258-66, 294, 296-7, 388-412, 419-20.— (See 
 under Waterford. ) 
 
 OCallaf/han, Rev. John, Oughterard Glebe, Co. Galway, Incumbent of Kilcummin ; letter as to 
 endowment for an agricultural school at Kilcommon, (Co. Mayo,) 6220 : (see under Kikommon.) 
 
 O'Connell, General Count ; endovrmcnt by, see under Caheixiveen. 
 
 O'Connell, James, Esq., Lakeview, Co. Kerry, nephew of General Count O'Connell, aud one of the 
 trustees of his endowment ; Letter of, (see under Caherciveen), 2322. 
 
 O'Connell, Richtrd, Esq., Evidence of, as to John C. Hickson's Endowment, Roman Catholic Poor 
 School, Tralco, 2334, 2393, et seq. : as to Strand-street School, Tralee, 2345. — See Tralee. 
 
 O'Connor, Peter, Esq., Merchant, Sligo ; Evidence of, as to general state of education and want of 
 adequate provision for same in the town of Sligo, 6712-38. 
 
 Is a great want of education, and has been for upwards of twenty years, in classics, modern 
 languages, and science, 6713, G727. 
 
 Has had the guardianship of boys whom he was obliged to send to the County of Kildare for 
 education, 6715, and several others were obliged to act similarly, 6718. 
 
 Mixed secular education of different religious denominations together, advantageous in connecting 
 closely our social relations with each other, G721-2 ; and tliinks religious instruction ought to be 
 given elsewhere than in the public school, 6725 ; knows the good of a mixed school, having been 
 educated in one, 6721-5. 
 
 If the National School and Erasmus Smith School (see Sligo) were well regulated, there would 
 be no occasion for an intermediate school, but there is a decided necessity for a school for the 
 better or higher classes, 6732-8. 
 O'Donohne, Mr. James, Master of Bishop Foy's school, Waterford : — Evidence of, 16477-8, 16490, 
 16502-10, 16557-697, 16798, 16800-8, 16811, 17062-7, 17526-569, 17576-96. 
 
 Course of instruction, 16567, 16591-604, 16615-22. Books used; chosen and supplied by 
 trustees, 16568-71 : want of better books, maps, ic, 16585-90, 16609-10. 
 
 As to complaints of the defective education of Foy boysin English : describes course of instruction ; 
 if he could have examined Mr. Harvey (see evidence under Waterford), would have brought out a 
 different story altogether ; instances boys of good education in Mr. Harvey's employment, 17576-7 
 et seq. Mistakes in writing from dictaticjn, sometimes none, sometimes " between two and three ;" 
 correction of mistakes, sometimes passed over, imjiossible to go through all, 17584-7. Bad spelling 
 by master himself; instances, 17588-96. 
 
 His duties confined to conduct and education of the boys ; would secure greater cleanliness if he 
 bad more authority; does not interfere with housekeeper, 16611-4, 16672-6, 17655-6. 
 
 Considers it a great advantage for the ])oor to have this a boarding school, 16606. — (Sec under 
 WalerJ'ord.) 
 OBonomn, Richard, Esq., Solicitor on behalf of Dr. llodgeus, head master of Midletoii Emlowed 
 School Co. Cork, applies to be heard as advocate for him ; oliscrvations as to reception of 
 evidence, 17648-60: (see under .l/irf/e<on.) 
 Offerlane, Queen's County : — Schools or endowments no longer in operation ; 
 OfTcrlane, under Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; 
 Oli'erlane, jMountrath (Martin Moore, Ma.ster, 18.35); 
 OfTcrlane, Mounlratli (Thomas Carroll, Master, 1835) ; 
 Ofl'erlaue, Mountrath (.John Sydes, Master, 1835); 5113, 5116. 
 Offices, Public ; competition for ; saa Ajxpointments. 
 
 OGradii Richard John, m.d,, Physician of Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, and Medical 
 OtKcei" of dispensary under Poor Law Board, 1624:i-67 : has made no annual reports to Governor? 
 of the school as required by the rules, nor returns of numbers relieved, 16244-7. 
 
 Has received no tickets or recommendations of late ; attend.s master and mistress, and jicrsons 
 in the school who apjdy, 16262-61. Salary .£70 a-ycar; numbers relieved, 16265-7.— (See under 
 Swords.) 
 Ollara, Mrs. Sarah, Mistress of Blue Girls School, Watcnford : Evidence of, 630 etseq. 
 
 Old practice of girls working for payment, did not answer, and discontinued eight years ago : 
 BchooimistresB receives no emoluments or profits from work done by the girls, 630-3.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 545 
 
 fJJJari.t, Mrs. Sarali, WatcrforJ, — contimu'd. 
 
 Attaclimont to the old-fashioned dress ; would not have it a.ltcrcil, iiltlioii;,'li tlio uiiiforni deters 
 girls from the scluxd, and could not take thcni through parts of the city or to church on ^Vedncsdays 
 in the uniform, Avithont their Ijcing insulted ; wear cloaks then ; cost of clothes, 507, 005-C, 
 GlO-3 — (See under Watfrfonl.) 
 
 Cllea, P. John, Teacher of Cahcrdaniel National Scliool, Co. Kerry; coniuiuuicalion from, a.s to 
 endowment left hy (jeneral Count O'Connell, for a school at Cahcnlaniel, in pari.'^h of Kilcrohane, 
 Co. Kerry, 2319. — (See un<ler Coherciveen.) 
 
 O^Leary, Joseph, Esq., Vice-President of Queen's College, Galway ; Evidence of, as to Erasmus Smith 
 Gninimar School, Galwav, and as to general state of education ; provision for same in neighhour- 
 iiood, ()()40 H scq. L)itKculty of getting hoys prepared ; come to the College loo scxni, G043-4 : 
 teaching them grammar in College, G018. 
 
 Grammar School should be a feeder to Queen's College, hut is not ; master and assistant eihcicnt, 
 but Konian Catholics have no confidence in the school as conducted ; agrees with Mr. Blakcnoy, 
 (sec Blakeney,) in his snggestions for meeting the objection ; should have a head master at a 
 better salary than at present, .say i!200, and second and third master.s at proportionate amounts, 
 say .£120 or £150, and ,£100; there could then be an efficient staff, one of the masters to be a 
 Roman Catholic as a sine qwi non ; no interference with the religion of the llonian Catholic pupihs, 
 but some one for them to look up to and to instruct them once or twice a week in their own 
 religion ; there would then be an ellicient school, C040. Does not say there should not be a 
 Protestant clergyman at its head, but would j)rcfer no clergyman at head of the establishment, GOIO. 
 
 Would wish to have a sdiool with men of the first education for masters, Graduates of the Queen's 
 or other Universities, 6040-1. 
 
 Would then lower the charge for boys in Grammar School ; six guineas too high : say three 
 guineas a-year : and vvould have no free pupils: only subject to indignity, and the day for free 
 scholars gone by, 6045-6, 605!) ; but if free places were given as a reward for supei'ior answering 
 at examination the objection would be counteracted, 6047-8, 6000-2. 
 
 Would provide pensions for masters after twenty years' service, 604!)-51. 
 
 Would not select the master from assistant masters ; but upon comjietition and cxaminat'on by 
 the Board of a College, the assistant masters not going in for such examination, 6052-7. 
 
 Omagli: Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education in 
 Co. Tyrone, 10556 et se<j., 11452 d se.q. 
 
 Representation by a deputation from inhabitants of Omagh and neigbboiirbood as to the general 
 state of education in the county, the non-ajiplication of funds for the county to the neigbbourliood 
 of Omagh, and the serious want of facilities for education of middle and upper classes, 11452. 
 
 Communication from Reo. R. V. Dixon, Rector of Clogherny, Omagh, &c., jxigcs 3.'33-336 : (see 
 Dixon.) 
 
 James FuUerlcn Alexander, 'Esq., Manager, Provincial Bank, Omagh: communication from, on 
 the part of the deputation, 11452 : evidence of, 11556-11634. 
 
 Want of endowed school at Omagh for intermoiliate education, 11559-11562, 11500: want of 
 means for a classical and commercial education combined, 11563, 11601. — Preference for a day- 
 school under parent's eye, to sending chihlrcn to boarding school at a distance, 11561, 11564-6. — 
 Would prefer religious instruction being under parent's direction rather than part of daily .school 
 course, 11602. 
 
 For success in commercial life, an enlarged education essential, embracing scientific knowledge 
 and modern languages, 11567-8, 11571-6 : not generally given in grani'iiar or classical schools, 
 11569 : commercial education neglected, 11570 : instances, Roj'al School of Dungannon, Diocesan 
 Scliool at Derry, Endowed School of Portora (Enniskillen) ; but speaks from hearsay only, 11606- 
 11611: of three clerks in Omagh Bank, none educated at Omagh, 11577-9: no means thereof 
 procuring such education as they require, 11580 : but a competent gentleman has recently come to 
 Omagh; no other moans, 11580-1 : young men in mercantile employment very deficient in edu- 
 cation, 11582. — ^Fitness for engagements as clerks in the bank, tested by examination ; heads of 
 examination ; utility of modern languages, 11584-11589. 
 
 Probable numbers who would attend such a school as is required' at Omagh, on moderate terms, 
 11590-11601. — Nature of endowment required for a good school at Omagh, inchnling liberal 
 salaries for well qualified masters, 11560, 11613-11631. — A IocaI tax for education would be 
 objected to, 11632. 
 
 Jiev. John B. Chapman, Rector of Drimnagli : — Evidence as one of the deputation, 11453-4 
 (■/ seq. Total absence of educational provision to meet the wants of the district for any above those 
 who attend National schools ; unlike other county towns in this respect, and distances from nearest 
 Royal schools from twenty to thirty iniles, 1 1455. Attempts to establish private schools unsuc- 
 cessful, from want of inducement to teachers to stay, 11458, 11469, 11497 ; no endowment of any 
 kind in the parish. 11462; numbers who would attend a good endowed school, and cla.sses who 
 s\ifl'er frimi want of one, and would sufiport one, 11459-61, 11464-8, 11470-4. The school re- 
 ([uired should embrace both classical and general education for mercantile life and engineering, for 
 boarders and day scholars, 11462-3, 11516-8. Nature and necessity of endowment for support of 
 such a school in the locality, and for maintaining an adequate and efficient staff and school accom- 
 modation, 11508-15, 11555. No difficulty from diversity of religious denominations, 11518, 
 11546-51, 11553-4. Provision for insiiection, 11475-6,11553. As to National and other schools 
 existing in the ncighbourluiod, 11477-96. Further evidence as to the nature of the school required 
 and course of instruction therein, and the want of probable success of s:une, 11479-11496, 11521 i'ts«j. 
 
 O^Mdlley, Rev. P., P.r., Brosna, Roscrca, Letter from, as to necessitj' of inquiry as to Shinronc schools. 
 King's Co., which are exclusively Protestant, 5230 : (see Shinrone.') 
 
 O'RciUy, Rev. John, Head master, of Kihnore Roman Catholic Academy, Cavan : Evidence of, 7787 et seq. 
 Endowment would be of advantage by admitting of smaller charges, and would increase numbers, 
 7811-3.
 
 540 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 O'Reilly, Rev. John, Cavan. — continuefl. 
 
 National soliool ; description of educ.Ttion and pvpils, 779S-7801 : dcea not unfit the humbler 
 classes for a working life, but the contrary, 7802-3. 
 
 See further, under Kilmore Acadoiiiv. 
 
 Orkney, Elizabeth, Countess of ; foundation and endowment of school at Midletnn, as a free school, and 
 exhibitions to University, 17603-4, 17G03 et srq. : (see under Midleion Endoivcd School.) 
 
 Ormonde, first Duke of; endowment of Kilkenny Grammar School by; see under Kilkenny. 
 
 Ormonde, Lord; school founded by; .see Killaloan. 
 
 Orinsby, Adam, Esq., Endowment by, Sligo :- — ■ 
 
 Evidence of Ilev. James Gully : — £30 a-j'car charged upou property of Adam Ormsby, Esq., for 
 support of charity boys of Sligo ; in hands of Incorporated Society, who expend it on Primrose 
 Grange School, 6685-9. — (See Pi imrose Grange, Sligo). 
 
 Orm^bi/, Ilcv. Willi'im Gilbert, formerlv superintendent of Boron>:h School of Swords, Co. Dublin: 
 Evidence of, 1.5673-834, 15906-10, "16208-98, 16326-32, 1G33S-4S, 16357-60. As to duties of 
 the superintendent, 15673-7, 15688-90. 
 
 Changes recommended by him, for improved management of school ; printed regulations intro- 
 duced and adoj)ted; course of instruction extended, 15691-712. Scriptural instruction, and feelings 
 of Koman Catliolics on the subject; memorials and proceedings thereon, 15714-64, 15821-4, 
 16320-32, 10338-48, 10357-00. Minutes in 1S55 of the Board of Governors, 15765-72: terms 
 and intention of the charter, in reference to Scriptural instruction, kc, 15773-83, 15803-7, 
 16277-85. 
 
 As to duties of the local governor, 15678-87. 
 
 As to teaching manufactures, or agriculture, 15783-6, 15799-802, 10209. 
 
 As to giving a mo.al a-day to all the children, a piece of bread being given to the infant school 
 only, 15783-95, 10274-7. 
 
 As to medical relief afforded in connexion with the school, 15808-20, 16286-92. 
 
 As to coal fund and distribution, 16270-1, 16293-8. 
 
 As to unfitness of master; and flogging, 15825-34. 
 
 As to employment of girls by the schoolmistress in working for herself after school hours and at 
 night, 15900-10. 
 
 Suggestions as to improvement of the school and its m.anagement, and carrying out of the 
 Charter, 10209 et scq. 
 
 See Swords. 
 Orphan Schools : — 
 
 Kilkenny ; Female, not in opcrati<in, 148. 
 Wicklow ; endowed by Jeffry \Yal(lr()n, Esq., 738. 
 
 And see under Names of particular Schools or Localities. 
 
 Osborne's, Lady, school at Kilcasb, in parish' of Killaloan, Co. Tipperary : school founded by Lord 
 Ormonde, broken up, 069 : Lady Osborne's school a national sclioui, not endowed, 667, 670. 
 
 O'Shea, Henry, Esq., Mayor of Limerick ; evidence of, as to Blue School or Blue Coat School, Lime- 
 rick: is incapacitated, by being a Roman Catholic, from being a trustee, 2401, 2405: believes 
 the school now a myth ; formerly boys seen about tovvn in tlie dress, none now, 2401 : reads a 
 letter from Mr. Maliony, as to future interests of the charity, 4651. 
 
 Diocesan School, Limerick : non-fidfilmeiit of condition of Grand .Jury grant that twenty free 
 scholars nominated by tbcni, of difl'erent religious denomination.s, without distinction, siiould bo 
 admitted, 2399. 
 
 Leamy School ; Protestant and Roman Catholic Bishops trustees, 2400. 
 
 Erasmus Smith Southern School 1-statcs : representation from Corporation as to necessity for 
 inquiring into application of endowment, and as to its being not pro])erly appropriated to locality 
 of Limerick, 2397-2404. Management of estates; nature of leases, 2407 (t seq.: inadequate pro- 
 vision for education out of Erasmus Smith Estates in Co. Limerick ; large property at Pallas- 
 green ; a school there attended by only four or five boys and three or tour girls, 2397 : (seo 
 Pallasyreen). 
 
 Statement that funds are supplied from Erasmus Smith foundation in Limerick, for a school at 
 Tarbcrt, Co. Limerick, 2397. 
 
 General State of Education and provision for same in Limerick and neighb(Uirl)ood : Summary 
 of variou.s schiiols in and about Limerick ; insulHcient cdiiciition atlorded out of Erasmus Smith 
 Endowment in the county ; great want of good schools for middle aud upper classes, :ind of classical 
 education ; the poor well proviiled for, 2397-2405, 2412. 
 
 Owen, .John, IJehj, Esq., Belmont, Ca.'ftlemarket, Queen's Co., Agent of School Estates under Clare- 
 street Board of E iueation j evidence as to Dillon's Endowment for a school at Castlemarket, 
 5094-8: (see Casllemarket). 
 
 As to School Estntes under Clare-street Board, in (Jneen's Co., their rental and management, 
 and improvements ."ince liis appointment, 5150-5192: — Queen's Co. Estate, X777 rental, 5164; 
 Kilbricken Estate, 5156 ; land at Ballyroan, 5168; Capy)aloughlin, Navan, Lissamore, Tipperary, 
 and King's County, and other Estates, 5170-5189. Found on his appointment a small and 
 unsuitable building, for which the Commissioners were paying a large rent, used for the Ballyroan 
 School, (.see Ballyroan,) a very bad concern ; Commissioners about to build new school ; recommended 
 purchase of iinother j)lace, with ground, the present sclioo], upon an advantageons agreement, saving 
 expense of building, 5168-9. 
 
 No industrial or agricultural instruction on tho estate ; want of an agricultural school, 
 5172-518.3.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 547 
 
 Oxmanfmvn, Co. Dublin : — Blue Coat ILisijital, or King's Hcspital ; Hospital and Free School of 
 Clnirlcs II. 
 
 Bequest of Ahlerman Preston (see Preston) to Hospital of Charles II. at Oxmantown, called the 
 
 King's Hospital, or Blue Coat Ho.spital ; and litig.atiou respecting it, 47-47, 4758-9, 47G2, 128G.3. 
 
 Statcinoiit by Mr. Magce, Newry, (sec Annayli^) as to endowments, 9373. 
 
 Ivfnrmatinn fi-om previous Inquiries, <£'c. — Charter, temp. Car. II., anno 1723, founding the 
 institution anil granting hind for a Ilosjjital and Free School, for children and ajred and impotent 
 people ; appointment of masters, officers, or ministers by City Corporation ; religions ficrvice and 
 instruction; mailing of rules for government of in.stitutiou by Corporation; leasing powers, limita- 
 tions, :219(l2 ; terms of charter and absence of any limitation of admission to citizens. 22555-6. 
 Provisions of .Xct of 3 &, 4 Vic, c. 108, by which the institution was separated from the Corporation, 
 and governors constituted, 21905-G. 
 
 Income, its sources and expenditure at various periods; payment by Erasmus Smith Board for 
 twenty boys : numbers ajiprenticed, salaries of officers, &c., 21903. 
 
 Provisions of Erasmus Smith Charter and Act of Parliament of 10 Geo. I., 21904. 
 
 P;'rar??//)!9!//n/.—i;V(/.°77Cfq/vlA//.wM//o»(', Esq. .Registrar. 21907-22347, 22353-403. 22J08-14, 
 22546, 22550. His salary and emoluments and duties ; resides in institution, 21943-63. 
 
 Constitution and mode of appointment of the Board of Governors of the institution, 21910-3. 
 Attendance of Governors ; meetings quarterly ; a committee twice a month, or oftener, 
 reporting to Board, 21919-25. Poivers and duties of Jlanaging Committee, and mode of 
 conducting business ; signing of cheiiues, 2192G-34 ; contracts, 21931, 21993-5. 
 
 Bye-laws and regulations; old regulations in force, of no use now, 21939-41. 
 
 Income, sources, and amounts, 21914-8. Mode of conducting financial business; accounts, 
 21964-79. Defective state and .system of accounts, and annual audit; details of account books ; 
 anieniimcnts recommended by auditors and an accountant, but no alteration made; difficulty of 
 obtaining information from the books; expenses incurred to rectify the accounts, and state of 
 same ; defective state of rental, 22085-22235. Resignation of some of the Governors on account 
 of financial nianiigonient objected to by them ; legal and financial embarrassment, 22236-53. 
 Audited accounts, 22334-47. Irregularity of accounts and audit ; some not audited, 22508-14. 
 
 Leases, and lists thereof and of muniments and donors ; no list of leases, 21935-8, 21942. Lands 
 and rental ; arrears, itc, 22309-25. Property of institution lapsed ; no steps for its recovery ; 
 irregularity of management ; p.articulars of arrears and property lost, 22353-82. Surveys; none 
 for 23 j'ears, 223G7-71. Irregular payments of rents or renewal fines, and consequent loss to 
 institution, 22383-403. 
 
 Measures in 1842 for improving management of the institution, and its funds, and augmenting- the 
 number of pupils ; rents, <tc., 2.254-82. Necessity of measures of economical reform and retrench- 
 ment ; me<lical ofilccrs, salaries and emoluments, servants, <tc., 22283-97, 21981-92, 21996-7. 
 Pensions, 21998-22000. 
 
 Sanitary conditinn of bovs, provision for cleanliness, itc., 22298-305. Dietary and clothin"- 
 and cost of same, 21958, 21980-3. "' 
 
 Amount of accommodation in the institution ; for 130 boys or more ; 80 boys at present; 120 
 formerly, 22002-13. Financial embarrassments preventing admissions, 2230G-8. 
 
 Admission of boys ; its conditions and limitation ; privileges to sons and grandsons of freemen • 
 proportion at present, forty-one out of eighty boys, 22032-4 ; examination for admission, 22035 • 
 mode of nomination ; question as to construction of Charter, 22U3G-45. Proposition to throw 
 open admissions to Protestant children generally, rejected, 2204G-54. 
 
 Present;itinn of ten boj-s by Bishop of Meath, 22027 ; of two by Rector of St. Werburfirh's, 
 22030; build of St. Anne's no longer presents, 22028-9. 
 
 Erasmus Smith boys in institution, twenty- seven ; formerly thirty, 22006, 22014, 22024; 
 number authorized by Act, not exceeding twenty, 22025-G ; cost, £22 or £i'i per head, and 
 p;iyMient for same by Erasnirs Smith Board from i;9 to £1 1 a head, 22014-23. Formerly payments 
 by Erasmus Smith Board irregular and in arrear, 22330-3. 
 
 Paying scholars formerly ; regulations ; discontinued as illegal under the charter, 22054-8. 
 Day pupils, 2l'059-Cl. 
 
 Boys in institution five years ; gratuity of £5 on leaving regarded as an apprentice fee, 22036, 
 22062-3. Inadequacy as an appreuucc lee ; no regulations as to apprenticing ; many of the boys 
 go to sea ; Governors take no part in apprenticing, :i2064-71. 
 
 Nature of education ; to qualify them for clerkships and mercantile avocations ; course of 
 instruction, 2207G-84. 
 
 No registry of any thing connected with the pupils, 22072 ; or of their success in afterlife, or 
 otherwise, 22073-5. 
 
 Attempts to set fire to the institution ; ill-fccling in the establishment, 22326-9. 
 
 Evidence of John E Ilyndvian, Esq., (mc of the Governors, 22404-72, 22553, 22563, 22580. 
 
 Income and rental; diminution, and its causes, 22464-72. Considered sale of stock improper 
 and illegal, and voted against it, 22553. 
 
 As to employment of an accountant to rectify the accounts and prepare them for audit, and make 
 up statement of property and sources of revenue, 22410-4. 
 
 Disproportionate cost of educating boj's in the institution, and capability of admitting a greater 
 number, 22415-7. As to admission ol d.ny scholars and opening the school more geuerall}'-, 22418. 
 
 Nature of education afibrdtd, and objects for which dcs'gned ; mercantile and seafaring life, etc., 
 22419-21 ; classics rejected frcm want of means, 22421 ; desiiablcness of modern languages for 
 couimercial education, and of classics ; ] ractical importance ot modern languages, 22422-31. Other 
 branches of instruction desirable, 22432.
 
 548 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Oxmantovin Co. Dublin (King's Hospital and Free School; Blue Coat Hospital,) — continued. 
 
 Internal arransreinonts of school : discipline, recreation, health, anil cost of medical attendance 
 ventilation, <lietary, clothing, etc., 22432-4, 22438-50, 22401-3. 
 
 Distinctive dress of the boys; opinions respecting it, 22451-00. Its cost, 22461-3. 
 Elopements of boj-s from the institution, 22435-7. 
 In favour of present distinctive dress, 22562-3. 
 Suggestion for inducing Governors to attend; breakfast, 22580. 
 
 Evidence of Francis Wil'i'Mi Bradi/, Esq., one of the Governors and a member of the General 
 Committee, 22473-507, 22515-8, 22554. 
 
 Amount of income and expenditure ; ought to afl'ord greater results and educate more than 
 the present number of boys, by better management and retrenchment of needless expenses of 
 staff, 22477-88. 
 
 Unsatisfactory management of land agency and financial accounts ; ])roperty lost ; arrears in 
 accounts and audit, 22497-507, 22515-0. 
 
 Course of instruction and manner in which it should be improved for the classes in life for 
 whom the school was intended ; would prefer introducing natural sciences and modern languages 
 to making it a classical school, 22491-0. 
 
 No restriction of admission in Charter to Freemen's children, 22554-6. 
 
 Domestic economy good ; but necessity of improvement in appearance and demeanour of the 
 boys; present dress unsuitable, 22517-8. 
 
 Evidence of John ilalht, Esq., a Governor and Member of Committees, 22519-52, 22555, 
 22557-60, 22572, 22579, 22,Go8. Age and attendance of Governors, 22520, 22552, 22579. As 
 to admission of medical attendants and head master to seats and votes at the Board, 22058. 
 
 Financial affairs, and necessity for better management thereof, anil of land agency, 22527-37. 
 Fraudulent loss of land from want of due supervision and of surveys from time to time, 22537-51. 
 Concurs with Mr. Brady {!>uprd) in regard to extending the benefits of the institutions by more 
 economical management, 22521-0. 
 
 Ilemming's fund, endowment by a boy educated in the school; grounds of protest against the 
 sale of the stock, 22552. 
 
 Preference for Freemen's children; terms and construction of Charter; Corporation of Governors 
 supposed themselves authorized so to limit admissions, without legal opinion on the Charter, 
 22555-60. 
 
 Course of instruction ; utility of drawing, in all callings, 22572. 
 
 In favour of the present distinctive dress of the boys, 22552. 
 
 Correspondence with Audit Office and Treamri/, in reference to the unsatisfactory state of the 
 accounts of the institution, aud arrear of audit, j)agis 329-332. 
 
 Evidence of William C. Kyle, Esq., ll.d., one of the Governors, 22561-78, 22638, 22069-90. 
 
 Financial condition and management ; measures of Committee, for recover3' of arrears and for 
 improving the institution, 225G2. 
 
 Protest against present mode of admission, 22564 : suggestions, as to qualification for admis- 
 sion, 22565-9. 
 
 Course of instruction : would give a good English education, embracing mathematics, chemistry, 
 practical science, drawing, niodei'n languages ; to fit boys for mercantile and commercial middle 
 class life, with provision for Greek and Latin, where particular talent in that way, 22570-4. 
 
 School library ; necessity and measures for its improvement, 22575-6, 22638. 
 
 Necessity of placing the Master on a better and more suitable footing, 22562. 
 
 Improvement of internal arrangements and domestic economy of the institution, 22576-8, 
 22689-90 : attendance of Governors, 22578. 
 
 Distinctive dress of boys at present ; its absurdity and inconvenience, 22562 : proceedings of 
 Committee, 22564. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Louis A. Le Pan, Chaplain aud Master of the Hospital and School, 22581-657 
 22059-61, 22682. 
 
 Salary and emoluments, .£180, coals and apartments, 22582-5. Seventy boj-s under his instruc- 
 tion, with one school assistant, 22586-9, 22655-6, 22659-61. 
 
 Hours of daily instruction and religious duties iu school and hospital ; Sunday duty in chapel, 
 two services, 22590-6, 22026, 22657. 
 
 Nature of school instruction, 22647-56. No industrial occupation, as gardening, carpentry, ifec, 
 22041-0. 
 
 An organist for the institution; boys taught singing ; desirableness of music and singing as part 
 of school system, 22015-23. 
 
 Supply of books (selected by master), and school requisites, by Governors, adequate, 22634-7. 
 
 State of discipline of scliool, satisfactory ; improvement as compared with its state on his 
 appointment ; elopements and barring out formerly, 22597-003. Studies and discipline best looked 
 after when due attention paid to boys' recreation, 22639-40. 
 
 ImprovoMient in reportsof examiners of boys' advancement, noticed by Commissioners; .and results, 
 a good and useful education in branches at present taught, 22004-22057. 
 
 Extension of the course of instruction, to include modern languages, chemistry, natural jiliilosojihy, 
 drawi::g, would be a great boon, 22004-5, 22055-0. As to introduction of classics, desirable if 
 practicable; would involve an increase of school staff, already scarcely adequate, 22600-8, 22620, 
 22055-0.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 549 
 
 Oxmanfoivn, Co. Diililiii (King's Hospital and Free School : IjIik; Coat Hospital,) — continued. 
 
 Foriiicrly, cliaplaiii and master .separate olHcers ; and two sciiool assistants, 22.'582, 22004: 
 limitation of course of in.strnction and e.\ponso, 220-55, 220-iJ7, 220.59-01. 
 
 Monitorial .system ; objections to it, from interference with progress of the hoys who are made 
 monitors; m;iniier in which it may to some extent be adopted adv:intageou.sly and without being 
 injurious, but system hail on tiic whole, 22609-14. 
 
 Examinations occasionally; how condneted ; prizes, 22024-3.3. Examinations for admission to 
 Government civil .service, 22049-.'j1. 
 
 Evidence of Afrs. Marnartt Jane Star, Matron, 22662-88, 2209I-O. Duties of matron : dietary; 
 cleanliness ; servants, itc, 22664-j, 22075-7. 
 
 Eight female servants ; all necessary ; but would be able to do the work for a greater nnn'ber of 
 boys; wages ami duties, 22060 et seq. Two nur.^es for inCrnuiry ; sometimes over-worked, some- 
 times nnemjiloyed, 22083-7. 
 
 Want of cleanliness in schoolroom ; washed only once half-yearly, during vacation, instead of 
 once a-week or fortnight, 22077-82. 
 
 Want of jilace for the servants to sit in ; at present only the drying-room, airiongst the wet 
 clothes, injurious ami <langerous, 22088-93. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Mr. Ifam'dton, Erasmus' Smith Board, as to boys placed in the school at 
 expense of that Board, (see under Erasmus ISmith Board)., 21870-5 ; Barlow, 19088-9. 
 FaUasf/rei-n, Co. Limerick ; Erasmus Smith School, in connection also with the Chnrch Education 
 Society. 
 
 Evidewe of Henri/ O'S/ica, Esq., ilayor of Limerick, as to Erasmus Smith Estates and inadetjuate 
 provision for education out of same in County Limerick ; large prcperty at ralla.^grccu ; a scho(d 
 there attended by only four or live boys and three or four girls, 2397. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. 'Thomas Murplu/, master of Erasmus Smith School, Pallasgreen ■ — Number of 
 pupils, twenty-nine on roll ; average attendance, fifteen to twenty, but small, being harvest time ; 
 average for last year, about thirty, 4250-01, 4336-7 ; numbers in 1851-2-3-4, twenty-nine, 
 forty-live, eighty, one hundred and ten, fifty-six, 4262-4, 4341-4 ; cause.s of falling oil', 4200-70. 
 In 1852-3 pupils had breakfast given to them in the schoolhouse, ami consequent increase of 
 scholars, 4271-81 ; falling olF on discontinuance of breakfast, 4282-9. Some clothing also given 
 in 1854, 4290-1, 4329-31 : in 1853 a number withdrawn to another school (I'oheroe) ijot now in 
 existence, and other causes of diniinution, 4292, 4302, 4387-9. 
 
 Funds from which food and clothing were supplied; food from local subscriptions; food served 
 out under superintendence of master and rector, who is patron of the school, 4279-80, 4310 : 
 Erasmus Smith Governors not contributors to food, 4332-5, 4338-40. Clothing supplied by the 
 governors, and distributed under direction of ladies to most attentive and deserving, for good 
 conduct, 4329-1 ; with some contributions from those superintending the distribution, 4382-3. 
 Manner in which food and clothing were procured, purchased, and accounted for ; accounts for 
 food rendered to Picv. Mr. Scott, Rector, and Ilcv. Mr. Turner, Missionary Curate, 4334-5, 4302-80. 
 
 Of one hundred and ten hoys and girls in school in 1853, all Protestants except nine, 4310 : 
 nearly all had been Konian Catholics previously, 4312-3 ; most of the scholars converts, 4207 ; some 
 gone back to their j)revious religious professions, 4207, 4320, 4328 ; none originally Protestant 
 became Pioman Catholics, 4350 ; numbers who changed, 4345-55 ; further details as to change of 
 religion, manner and time thereof, 4314-28, 4350-61 ; does not think the giving of breakfast 
 influenced the change of religion ; very few Roman Catholic children at the time, and they too 
 young to think of religious convictions ; all got food indiscriminately, 4358-61. 
 
 Performance of Divine Service at schoolhouse, which is licensed for same, 4402-4. 
 
 Inspection of school by Rev. Mr. Hamilton an<l Rev. Mr. Scott, on part of Erasmus Smith Board, 
 4403-9, 4451 ; also by inspector of Chnrch Education Society, the school being in connection with 
 that Society as well .as Erasmus Smith Board, 4452-01, 4400 ; local clergymen habitually visiting 
 the school, 4441-4 ; and ladies who visit the girls' school, 4444-5, 4465 ; examination of the 
 children by the clergymen, 4440-51. 
 
 Returns to Erasmus Smith Board, <as to repairs of schoolhouse, 4421-3. 
 
 Needlework, &c., of girls in school, under lady visitors, who pay them for their work ; girls get 
 the profit, except some stoppage for clothing and incidental expenses, 4462-4. 
 
 Another school on Erasmus Smith lands. National School, Roman Catholic clerg3'man patron ; 
 well attended, 4390-3. 
 
 Master of Erasmus Smith school ; his previous education and training at Kildarc-place establish- 
 ment, 4394, 4401 ; examination at Church Education Society's office before his adtnissi<ni to train 
 ing establishment, 4399-4400, 4405 ; and before his appointment as master, 4406-7. 
 
 Has received maximnm gratuity re.Li'ularlv since his appointment, in addition to his salary, 
 without variation in amount under the rules, which have never been communicated to him, 
 4119-20, 4424-38. 
 
 Has not received premiums of books given to masters of eight best Erasmus Smith schools ; 
 rule not having been communicated to hira, not aware of any such competition and prizes, which 
 would doubtless have been a stimulant to exertion, 4411-3, 4439-40. 
 
 Gratuitous instruction given to all poor children, except one or two ; but master not aware of 
 rule of governors, that for every pound of salary master and mistress bound to instruct one scholar 
 gratuitously if applying; never heard of the rule, 4414-7; has school rules, but not rules for 
 teachers, 44 18 -20. " 
 
 Has two acres of land contiguous to school, but this does not interfere with school duties, 4408-10. 
 Palmer. Jlr. James, tailor, father of three boys in Bishop Foy's school, Waterford : Evidence as to 
 sufficiency of food and thriving condition of children iu the school, 17392 et seq.: (see under 
 Waterlord.) 
 Vol. 11. 4 B
 
 550 E^'DOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMLSSION. 
 
 Parish Schools ; 
 Parochial Schools ; 
 
 Castlebar, Co. Mayo : Lord Lieutenant's Fund, G107ci seq. 
 Castleraglian, Co. Cavan, 7816 et seq. 
 Clonmulsk, Co. Cavlow, 75. 
 Kilkenny, St. Mary's, 149. _ 
 
 Oatlands, Co. Cork, Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 11G5: — see Oatlands. 
 
 Raphoe ; parochial schools endowed in Diocese of Rapboe by Col. Robertson, 11118 el seq. : — 
 eee Raphoe, Robertson. 
 
 And see under names of respective Schools or Loculities where referred to. 
 Parliamentary Grants to Schools : 
 
 See Belfast Academical Institution ; Incorporated Society, kc. 
 
 As to provision by means of, for schools for middle classes, see under Endoiuments, Intermediate 
 Schools, Rates, &c. 
 Paton, William, Esq., agent to the Primate : Evidence as to amounts advanced by the Primate for 
 repairs and iraprovomeut of buildings and accommodation of Armagh Royal School (see Armagh'), 
 9624-34. 
 Patterson, Robert, Esq., Vice-President of Natural History Society, Belfast; Letter from, and 
 Evidence, as to the desirableness and importance of teaching Natural History as a part of school 
 education ; its beneficial influence on the young, and advantages in developing their faculties ; 
 agrees with Dr. Bryce (see Bryce,) in his evidence on the subject ; and would urge the study of 
 natural history in such schools as the Belfast Institution and the Belfast Academy ; not attended 
 with much expense, 10502-13. 
 
 Pattison, Chief Justice : Endowment by, for Ennis Grammar School, lost ; £10 a year bartered for 
 horse Strongbow, 3524-5. 
 
 Pattison, Mrs. Ellen, grandmother of a boy in Bishop Foy's school, Waterford : Evidence as to suffi- 
 ciency of food of boys in the school (see under Wateiford), 17377 et seq. 
 
 Payments by Pupils; for scales of, see under particular schools. 
 
 Peebles. James, Esq. : Evidence of, as to purchase of land at Swords by him ; never heard of Archdea- 
 con Hewitson's land before this inquiry; identifies mill premises on map (see vuder Swords, Hewit- 
 son's endowment), 19959 et seq. 
 
 Pensions for Masters, <tc., of schools : — 
 
 Want of provision for superannuation of old and worn-out masters and assistants : — Banagher, 
 Monck, 5278. Cavan, Moore, 7878, 7952-G5, 7972-3. Clonaslee, Webb, 4736. Donadea, Leggatt, 
 13796. Brogheda, Ecclea, 12687-8. Bu7iqonnon, Kingwood, 11836-7 . Ennis, King, 3017-25 ; 
 Barlow, 22767-8. Galway, Hallowell, 20140-5 ; O'Leary, 6049-51. 
 
 Practice of Erasmus Smith Board in regard to: — Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, Registrar and 
 Inspector, 21753-6; Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, <fec., of Board, 22767-78, 22956. 
 
 As to Pensions and Annuities under Incorporated Society, see Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill, 
 Secretary, and of Mr. Pidgeon, Land Agent, &e., under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Percy, Rev. William Alexander, Rector of Kiltoghert, Co. Leitrim : 
 
 As to endowment for school at Carrick-on-Shannon : — Letter from, 6843 ; Evidence, G844-6860. 
 School not now in operation, 6841-2-3 ; house and premises in private hands, under ejectment; 
 nature of lease and documents, and proceedings thereon ; first under Kildare-place Society, then 
 under National Board, then a private school ; endowment, lands of .£150 a-yoar, 6843-4, 6845-60 
 (see Ga rrick-on-Sha nnon. ) 
 
 As to endowment for school at Jamestown, in parish of Kiltoghart : Letter from, 6805 : Evidence 
 of, 6805-11 : — remembers the school, a free school for public benefit, with some paying scholars; 
 premises sold : now the Roman Catholic chapel, and the master's house given to parish priest, and 
 tenanted since school given up, 6S05-S (sec Jamestown.) 
 
 As to endowment under Lord Lieutenant's fund for School at Corrawallccn, Drumreilly, Co. 
 Leitrim: Evidence of, school in existence, and thinks in operation, 6917-8 : {sec Corrawalleen : 
 see also Drumreilly school.) 
 
 Evidence of, a.s to general state of education, and want of adequate provision for same, in Co. 
 Leitrim, 6956 et seq., 6991 et seq. 
 
 Want of intermediate schools for middle classes, 6956-6961 ; want of endowment ; teachers who 
 have failed for want of support ; a classical and science teacher would not be remunerated in the 
 town unless there was some endowment, 6956-7, 6962. 
 
 If a good school were maintained it would be attended, 6903 ; amount of endowment required, 
 6991. 
 
 Difficulty in regard to boarders of difl'crent religious denominations : the master should be 
 appointed by Government or some independent authority, not by local persons, 6992-8. 
 Phi/Ax, Mr. W., Soaficld, Ballymote, Co. Sligo ; Letters from, as to land endowment for school at 
 Emlafadd ; school has not existed for forty years, 6306, 6318. — See Emlafadd. 
 
 Phydcal Sciences : see Sciences. 
 
 Pidgeon, William, Esq., Land Agent of the Incorporated Society for promoting English Protestant 
 
 Schools in Irelan.l ; Evidence of, 20690-701, 20838 ct seq., 21075-7, 23222 el seq., 23437 et seq. 
 
 Letter from, respecting evidence of Rev. E. S. Abbott, 23209. — See under Incorporated Society. 
 I'lai) Ground -.--'W-.int of: Drngheda Blue School, Ecclcs, 12686. Waterford Foy School, lloarc, 
 
 l'6498-513, 16521. A''awn, Legg, 12968-9. Raphoe, Steele, 11273-7. And see under names of 
 
 other Schools. 
 
 Pleasiml's Asylum, Dublin : 
 
 Memorial received by the Commissioners from Mr. Dowling, and statement by him in reference, 
 to it, 22348-52.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 551 
 
 Plunket, Very Rev. Rohert, Dean of Tuani ; Loiter from, as to Tuam Diocesan School, Co. Gulway : 
 a diocesan schoolmaster at Tuani, iiaiil by an annual tax upon henoficcJ clcr^ryinen; not the slightest 
 advantage to thcni from iiim, hut no power to remove the grievance in present state of the law, 
 C0G3. — (See under Tuam.) 
 
 PococJce InstUution, Kilkenny, 1089, 7008, 23253-8, 232G1 et seq. :— sec Killcenny. 
 
 PorlarUngton ; Clonaslee, Queen's Co. : — see Clonaslee. 
 
 Povti'i; Rev. John Grey, one of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; Evidence of, as to the 
 
 lands btMiucathcd by Bishop Garnctt, at Clogher, Co. Tyrone; good grounds for further inquiry; 
 
 reads will of Bishop Garnett, 11710-18 : (see Clogher.) ' 
 
 As to Vauf,'han Charter School, at Tubrid, Co. Fermanagh ; Mr. Porter formerly one of the 
 Governors : — the school formerly small and badly conducted ; improvenient during the last forty 
 years, and increase of the school, 12189 : importance of close supervision by the Governors and 
 local Committee, 12189, 12195-7 : (see under Tubrid.) 
 
 Evidence of, at Enniskillen, as to general state of education, 12198-12204. 
 
 A great amendment necessary in administration of the large endowments for education in 
 Ireland : suggests appointment of a Minister of Public Instruction, and that all educational 
 endowments be aggregated together and placed under one supervision ; funds sufficient without 
 an education tax, 12198-12202 : contrasts the number of schools, and different bodies superintend- 
 ing them, now and at former periods ; system in other countries, 12198, 12207. 
 
 In bringing together all scholastic endowments, would respect the express and positive intentions 
 of the donors, 12208. 
 
 Porter, Rev. John Srofl, Professor of Hebrew and Biblical Criticism and Theology to Non-Subscribing 
 Presbyterians, Belfast ; Evidence of, as to want of intermediate schools, or superior schools for the 
 middle classes, 10549-55 : as to the provision of funds and education rate, 10549-53. 
 
 Agrees with Professor M'Cosh and Dr. Wilson (see iPCosh, Wilson,) as to ui-gent want of a 
 system of intermediate education, general and commercial as well as classical. The funds for 
 carrying out the system to be partly local and partly from sources of a more extensive character, 
 10549-53 : thinks an educational rate could be levied, and for what proportion of the expense, 
 10550-3 : local funds already raised for Belfast Academy and Academical Institution, 10449. 
 Exhibitions ; better if applied in some other nian"er, 10549. 
 
 Poriora ; Royal School of Enniskillen sometimes refeiTed to by that name : — see Ennislcillen. 
 
 Poiver, Rev. Nicholas, Head Master of Meath Diocesan Seminary : Evidence of, a.s to Meath Diocesan 
 Seminary, and general state of education and provision for same, 13019 et seq. The seminary not 
 an endowed school, 13024 : nearly seventy boarders and fifty day scholars, 13021-2. Preparation 
 of boys for Maynootb, and for professions and commercial pursuits ; there have been some Protest- 
 ants ; no religious denomination excluded, 13064—7. 
 
 Course of education, classics, science, and commercial, a general English education, and French 
 without extra charge : how managed ; details of instruction and of arrangements for carrying on 
 combined education in these branches, 13023 et sec/. : importance of modern languages : would wish 
 to introduce German, 13039-43. Discipline, prizes, &c., 13057-63. 
 
 Suggestions as to general education of middle classes ; absence of prepar.atory schools, swallowed 
 up by national system ; difficulty of getting lads sufficiently prepared or to remain long enough 
 for good education, on account of expense, 13068, 13083-4. 
 
 Would leave education open to competition without endowed schools at all, 13069, 13080-2. 
 Thinks they never succeed ; groun<ls of his objection to them, 13073. 
 
 If the funds could be brought together and distributed in prizes for competition, would be the 
 best stimulant to education, 13069, 13075. 
 
 Throwing open public appointments and commissions to public competition would be a strong 
 stimulant, 13070-2, 13075. 
 
 Want of a Board of supervision and inspection of schools generally, public and private, Protestant 
 and Catholic; annual visitation of every school, although unendowed, 13073-6. 
 
 Further general observations and reference to the Prussian, French, and Austrian sj'stems 
 of Education, 13075 et seq. 
 Premiums to Masters and Mistresses ; see under Erasnws Smith Board, &c. 
 Premiums in connection with apprenticeship ; see under Apprenticeship. 
 To pupils ; see Exhibitions, Prizes, &c. 
 Presentments for school buildings ; see Diocesan Schools. 
 
 Preston, Alderman ,/ohn, of Dublin ; Endowment by, for schools at Ballyroan, Queen's Co., and Navan, 
 Co. Meath ; bequest to Blue Coat Hospital or King's School, Oxmantown, Dublin : — see Ballyroan, 
 Navan, Oxmantown. 
 
 See also Kilbricken, Queen's Co. ; school for tenantry of Preston Estate, in connection with 
 schools of Ballyroan and Navan. 
 Price, Rev. William .lohn, ll.d.. Master of Cor] oration Free School, Waterford, and Lecturer of St. 
 Olave's, appointed by Corporation ; Evidence of, 162 et seq. Difficulties and litigation with 
 Municipal Corporation as to terms of his appointment and payment of his salary, 161-9, 196-9. 
 
 Not aware of endowment by Bishop Milles ; has not seen Dr. Downes' Will nor Acts of Parlia- 
 ment relating to the endowment of the school, 169-76. 
 
 Free scholars formerly, none now, 194-6. No complaints on account of cessation of free places; 
 but he has received boys at nominal sums where parents could not afford to pay for suitable 
 education, 200-2. Pupils generally from higher classes of the vicinity, 184-8 : majority of Estab- 
 lished Church, some Friends, some Presliyterians, and have been Roman Catholics, none at jiresent, 
 190-3, 204. 
 Vol. II. 4 B 2
 
 .552 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Price, Rev. William John, ll.d., Waterfonl, — continued. 
 
 Covirse of instruction very general ; a collegiate education, and for military colleges, for tlie 
 professions, engineering, itc, 183, 20.3. Books used, 22D-32. 
 
 Perfectly fcasilile to combine and carry on classical and commercial education in same scliool ; 
 it is his practice ; superiority of boys who go through extensive course of classics, generally, 
 220-1. Books used, 230. 
 
 Subsequent pursuits of pupils and success in afterlife, in university, the different professions, and 
 commercial life, 189-SO, 212, 231-2. 
 
 ]S'o inspection : reports occasionally to Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; returns ouce 
 or twice a-ycar, lSl-2. 
 
 Exhibitions, want of, and their value to Eoyal and other schools having them. 212-5. Dr. 
 Downes' exhibition of £15 (now about .£11 net, after deductions) tenable for seven years; scarcely 
 wortli holding; useless to the school, and little cared for, 17G-7, 195 : residence in the university 
 an indispensable condition, 205-8. 
 
 Suggestions for improvement of the school, and making it of greater public utility; increase of 
 endowment and exhibitions required; and to what extent: reasons and advantages anticipated, 
 213-9, 222-7, 233, 320-9. And school might be improved by change of locality, and by Corpo- 
 ration repairing the premises, 228. 
 
 See further, under Wcterford. 
 Prim, John G. A., Esq., Evidence of, as to Orphan Girls School, Kilkenny : Convent School, Mrs. 
 
 Mechan trustee ; house given up to Board of Guardians, 148. 
 Primate, the, senior Commissioner of Clare-street Board of Education, and Patron of Armagh Royal 
 School : Letter from, to show the "utter groundlessness" of the charge of misapplication of the 
 royal bounty and of non-fulfilment of the trust, contained in memorials relating to the Armagh 
 Royal School, 9370. 
 
 Statement bv the Primate in answer to the complaints : — as to the complaint of the education 
 now beins strictly classical ; always so, and intended to be so ; history and design of the Royal 
 Schools ; preparation of students for Trinity College ; selection of masters distinguished at univer- 
 sity ; list of students from Armagh; statutory authority for exhibitions: but education not exclu- 
 .sively classical ; as reported in 1839, a much more extensive course of education, both literary and 
 scientific was then adopted than had been formerly, and rules for exhibitions extended so that they 
 should be given for prizes either in classics or science, instead of classics alone : injury that would 
 result from a total change of system, and departure from original design of the school, such as the 
 memorialists seek, 9370. 
 
 As to complaint that the education is not wholly free, only a limited number of free scholars 
 being admitted; no direction in the charter for free education to all who may resort to the school; 
 some to be free may be inferred, but conditions not specified ; some to pay, apparent from the 
 terms of the earliest instruments; Act of 1813 provides for free places out of the surplus only, 
 and at the iliscretion of the Commissioners, who have provided ten free places for day scholars 
 and five exhibitions ; reasons for the arrangement; number of free scholars in ten years 1840-50, 
 varying from six in 1847 to twelve in 1849 ; always free scholars since the Commissioners had the 
 schools, 9370. 
 
 Allegation that the ton boys are selected by the master at his will and pleasure, at variance with 
 the fact : rules laid down for admission of free pupils on appointment of the master who has 
 conformed to them :ind has received a larger number than the Board required of him ; high 
 character of the master and assistant in Armagh Royal School, 9370. 
 
 Observations on the allegation as to high charges, and comparison with charges specified for 
 other schools in Dublin and elsewhere, 937tL 
 
 Assistance by, towards repairs and improvements of Royal School buildings and accommodation, 
 9G24-34, 11752-9. 
 
 See under names of Royal and other schools. 
 Primrose Grange, Co. Sligo ; Incorporated Society's Scliool. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Guilt/ : — £30 a-ycar charged ujion jiroperty of Adam Ormsby, Esi;., for 
 support of charity boys of Sligo, in hands of Incorporated Society, who expend it on Primrose 
 Grange School, near the town of Sligo, GG85-9. 
 
 School visited by Commissioners ; examination of pujiils, satisfactory ; efficiency of writing from 
 dictation as a test of general instruction ; boys well taught also in agricultural instruction, 6801-3. 
 
 Furtlier inquiry deferred for Assistant Conuni.^sioner's Report, 6801. 
 Private Schools : eiloct of National schools in reducing or extinguishing private schools for middle 
 
 classes : sec National Schools. 
 Prizes: 
 
 Nature of and how jirovided -.—Drogluda, Lacy, 12754-.'). Ennis, King, 3902-7, 39G8, 4108-9; 
 Cullinan, 4(183: Barlow, 2275G-9; /)«?(yOT(HW,Ringwood, 11 783-G. .CwjhsH/^w, Groham, 11990-2. 
 (Jidw'ii/, ilallowcU, 20295-302. Fonle School, L<,iidonderrii, Escott, 10834, 10924-8. Meatk 
 Diocemn Scudnary, Power, 13059. Oxmautoirn, Dnbliii, Lo Pan, 22G24-33. Raphor Royal School, 
 Steele, 11348-51. Templemickael Co. Lowjford, Card, 7G19-23. Waterford, O'llara, G47-50. 
 
 Evidence as to practice and effect of, under Era-wiim Smith Board, &c., see Erasmus Smith Board, 
 &c. And see Exhihitions, and under names of particidar schools. 
 Promotion of Masters and Teachers: 
 
 Want of inducements by ; Belfiud, Brycc, 1038G-9. Ennis, King, 393G. 
 
 Promotion of under masters preferable to api>ointmcnt of strangers from patronage ; Cavan, Moore, 
 7878, 7984-5. 
 
 And see Masters, &c.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 553 
 
 Proprittan/ Schools : 
 
 l)i(ficnltie.-j in tlic way of ostalilishirif,' : Drogheda, h^cy,l2Sio-5S. Duwjannon, Rin^'wood, 
 11821, 11854-7. DuUin, Tliom, 23452-8 ; Murray, 23508-13. 
 
 Proselytisni ; sec under Rdi'/imi. 
 
 Protestant Schools : — see under names of respective Localities, or of Schools so called. 
 
 Pahlic Appoiittmcnts : eoinpetition for : .sco Jjipoin/m'nls. 
 
 Pimislimenls in Schools, and general absence of corporal punisUnicnts ; see under respective schools. 
 
 As to flogging; Dmulalk; Turner, 12282, 12285, 12288-304; Studdert, 12372-7. FAphin, 
 Flynn, 7372-8. Moniejhan, Wright, 9110-37. fVa/er/ord Foij School, O'Donohoo, 10623-40. 
 
 Slaps on the hand with a cane, and a few slaps over the shoulder with the same cane, not flogging, 
 but punishing (see under Cork), Searson, 1910-22. 
 
 Absence of, and kind of discipline in Christian Brothers' Schools; Cork, Duggan, 1342-8. 
 
 Abuses in regard to: (logging; at Swords, sec under Swords. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill, Secretary of Incoi'poratcil Society, as to practice in the schools 
 under the society, 23423-9. 
 Quade, Miss Grace, Mistress of Blue Girls School, Downpatrick : evidence of; unsatisfactory answer- 
 ing of the children on examination, 10231-43; no instruction in grammar; paticulars of instruc- 
 tion and management. 10219, 10244 ; girls work for herself and for the school, 10220-2, 10229-30, 
 10248. — (See under DownpairicL:) 
 
 Qualifications of Masters and Teachers : — Baniojhct Itoijid School, 5319-20, 535ij-9. Bdfus Acndtmtj, 
 Bryce, 10390-410. Downpatrick, Teer ; see under Downyalrick Blue School. Brogheda Blue 
 School, Shaw, 1243-440. Dundalk, Neville, 12355-0. Dungannon, Ringwood, 11837-51. 
 Monaghan, MofTatt, 8498-9. Waterford, Foy School, 17584-96. 
 
 And see under respective schools : and under Masters, Inspection, kc. 
 
 Queens Colleges : see Colleges. 
 
 QueoHs Co. : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Maryborough, 4736 et scq. 
 
 Quimi, W. C, Esq., late secretary of the (Clare-street) Commissioners of Education ; circular in 1830, 
 as to admission of free scholars into Diocesan Schools, 21215. 
 
 Raineij, Hugh, Esq. ; school endowed by, Magherafelt, Co. Londonderry (see Magherjj'ell), 10573-92. 
 
 Rainsford, Charles Patrick, Esq., Lieutenant, ii. p., G7th Foot, resident at Swords thirty-five years; 
 Letter from, 14032 : Evidence of, 14123 : written statement read relative to the endowment, 
 management, and system of education in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, containing 
 objections, on the part of the Roman Catholics, to the .system of management and education 
 pursued, 14124. Numerous memorials and petitions written by him, 14125. Charges against 
 governors and superintendent, and grounds on which made, and by whom, 14128-69. — See under 
 Swords. 
 
 Rainsford, Rev. Marcus, Yicar of Dun<lalk : Letter from, as to Dundalk School, 1 2234 ; as to Stejdiens- 
 town School, Go. Louth, 12234 (see Stephenstown). 
 
 Raleigh, Sir Walter ; Endowment by, for a school, formerly at St.. Johnstown, Co. Longfor<l (see 
 under Johnstown), 7461, 7403. 
 
 Ranelagh: Earl of: 
 
 Boys School, Athlone ; see Alhhme. 
 
 Girls School, Roscommon ; see Roscommon. 
 
 Raphoe, Co. Donegal : 
 
 Parochial Schools endowed in Diocese of Raphoe by Colonel Robertson, 11118 ei seq. 
 
 Robertson School at Raphoe, 11128 et seq. 
 
 Royal School at Raphoe, 11203 et seq. 
 
 Raphoe, Kilmore, and Clogher District Diocesan School, at Monaghan ; see Monaghan. 
 
 PAUOCIIHL .SCHOOLS EXDOWED IN DIOCESE OF RAPHOE BV COLONEL ROBERTSON. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Thomas Fullerton, Rector of Stranorlar, Secretary of Acting Committee of 
 Robertson Schools, 11119 et seq.: — Provision in Colonel Robertson's will for establishment of a 
 school in each of the thirty-one parishes then existing in the diocese, and for supplying them with 
 books; £15 a year for master, and £3 for books, late currency, 11120-1. Money in the funds, 
 under a Coniniittee of dignitaries and clergy of the Church, 11122-3, 11200-1. No fund for 
 repairs but any sur])lus not required for books allowed to be expended in repairs ; generally in 
 good repair, 11124-5, 1113S-40. Visitors appointed by Bishop ; insiiector ; half-yearly reports, 
 11120-7,11201. 
 
 ROBERTSON SCIioOL AT RAPHOE. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Thomas Fullerton. Rector of Stranorlar, Secretary of Acting Cominittee of 
 Robertson Scliools, Visitor of Raphoe School :— Last visited the school in March or April, 1855; 
 in bad repair, and comfortless; particulars of defects, 11129-37. No endowment fund for 
 repairs ; a jiarochial school, to be kept in repair by incumbent, like other parochial schools, 
 1113S-40. Incjuiry as to authority under which it is supposed the incumbent is bound to keep 
 such schools in repair, 11173-81, I'l 191-9. Few landed proprietors in the parish, chiefly church 
 lands ; small incomes of incumbent.s, from which repairs are expected, 11182-99. 
 
 Salary of master, £15 a year from endowment, and about £-0 from payments by children ; 
 present master also parish clerk, 11139, 11141-5. 
 
 Mixed school, for boys and girls, and of all religious denominations, 11140, 11155-7. As 
 visitor, examines the children to ascertain their proficiency, who are also taught catechism by 
 master, and catechised by clergymen, 11153-4. Scriptures read daily, and master questions upon 
 them, 11159-01. Nothing to prevent children of any denomination attending, and no objection 
 made, 11158. Numbers in the several Robertson Schools collectively, in last three years, of
 
 554 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Bapho', Robertson Scliool, — coutinucd. 
 
 different denominations; in 1854, 734 Clmroli of England, 294 Presbyterians, G27 Roman 
 Catholics, 11162-5. 
 
 Considers tbe RapLoe school a fair specimen of the Robertson Schools generally, both as to 
 instruction and discipline ; favourable opinion of Commissioners as to competency of master, and 
 satisfactory management of the school in these respects, 1116G-72. 
 
 No industrial teaching ; no sewing for girls ; thinks it desirable, 11147-9. Another school 'in 
 the town for girls, in connection with the Church Education Society, where industrial instruction 
 is given, — sewing and knitting, cfcc. ; girls desiring industri.al instruction go to it, 11149-52. 
 
 ROYAL SCHOOL, KiPHOE. 
 
 htfonnation from Reports rf previous Inquiries, >kc. : — Charter-lands of endowment, 11203-4 ; 
 report of Commissioners, 1807-12 ; as to lands, extent, and condition of estate ; lands leased much 
 below value ; ruinous condition of buildings from ten years' non-residence of previous master, 11204. 
 
 Reports of Clare-street Board of Education, 1817 ; new survey and valuation, 11205 ; report in 
 1819, as to management of estate, 11206; in 1820-1, arrears and advertisements for re-letting, 
 11207 ; combination against payment of rents, and to dispute title of Board, 11208 ; lawless and un- 
 manageable conduct of tenantry, 1 1208-9 ; difficulties of management of the estates then and since ; 
 emigration, 11215, 11221; improvements, 11216, 11219; state of school buildings, repairs, and 
 improvements; new play ground, 11211, 11213, 11222-3. 
 
 Number of pupils, income, aud expenses at various periods, 11210, 11212, 11214, 11217-8, 
 11220, 11223-5 ; appointment of new master in 1850 ; increase of pupils, and rising character of 
 school, 11222-4, 11226. 
 
 Present Inquiry. — Returns of estate, &c., 8731 acres, 1122G. 
 
 School entirely without exhibitions, a serious detriment to it, 11226. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William Steele, head master, 11227 ; repulsive and discouraging state of the 
 buildings and school premises on his appointment in 1854 ; representations of its state by residents 
 of the neighbourhood ; spent £420 in repairs, ifec., 11229-31 ; representation to Clare-street Board, 
 who regretted it was impossible for them to make a grant for necessary repairs, 11232-3; sum 
 that would be required to make repairs &c., complete, £600, 11237-9. 
 
 Number of pupils, thirty-six, of whom twenty-seven arc boarders and nine day scholars ; four 
 of the latter free pupils, 11234-5, 11251-3 ; sons of gentlemen of fortune, merchants, and profes- 
 sional men ; terms for day boys, ten guineas a year ; but well-conducted intelligent boys received 
 as free, where pareuts couhl not pay ; none refused if eligible, 11240 ; Church of England, Pres- 
 byterians, and Roman Catholics, 11241 ; no objection to free pupils on religious grounds, 11243. 
 
 Domestic arrangements and accommodation for boarders, as members of his family, 11246-50. 
 
 Course of instruction, a complete education in English, classics, and mathematics ; also French, 
 German, drawing, and fortifications, 11236 ; religious discipline, 11244-6. 
 
 Combined system of classical and commercial education, and modern languages ; difficulties of 
 * carrying on in same school ; how managed, 11278-94. 
 
 No inspection or visitation of school, nor reports, 11271-2 ; desirableness of a system of inspec- 
 tion and examinations; its effects, 11343-7, 11352-4. 
 
 Want of exhibitions in connection with the school ; as to importance and effects of exhibitions 
 in regard to pupils and masters ; best mode of establishing them, and relation of University course 
 to them, 11309-32 ; defects in college entrance course ; coniparison with English system, 11367-95. 
 
 Rewards given by master for diligence and good conduct ; how regulated, 11348-51. 
 
 Maps and other school requisites provided byniaster, 11333 ; philosophical instruments, 11334. 
 Would desire to give instruction in natural philosophy and natural history as a recreation, 1 1 335-8. 
 
 General culture of mind and ac([uisition of variety of information afforded by an extended course 
 of education, most useful, 11339-42; study of logic and ethics, 11396-404. 
 
 As to e-:tablishingoue uniform system of cducati>.n in schools throughout the country, 11355-64; 
 mixture of English and Irish masters, and assimilation to English system, 11365-6. 
 
 A large theological library on school premises; diocesan library, but only one application from 
 clergy to consult it, and none from gentry ; use of part of school for it, and particulars of arrange- 
 ments, 1 1254-70. 
 
 No fund for a school-library for the boys, who use his own library ; advantages of access for boys 
 to a library, and of what description, 11295-308. 
 
 Want of adequate play ground, 11273-7. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary, and other officers of Clare-street Board, as to superintendence 
 of Royal Schools, management of estates, etc. ; see under Cmnmimoners of Education. 
 
 Rale for Education : 
 
 Opinions as to ; Belfaul, Dunvillo, 10500-1 ; M'Cosh, 10522, 10535-42 ; Porter, 10549-53 ; 
 Wilson, 10547. 
 
 A Local Tax for Education objected to: Omai/h, Alexander, 11 032. Maryhoroiu/h , Talbot, 
 5205-6, 5223-4. Naas, Do Burgh, 14012 et seq. ; Ilickey, 13993-14000; Hayes," 13972-5; 
 Kcllctt, 14006-9. Carrirlc-on-Shannon, Dawson, 6979-81. 
 
 No objection to provision for education out of Government funds ; Goverinnent aid required ; 
 Naas, Hayes, 13971 ; Ilickey, 13990; Kellett, 14010. Carrick-on-Shantmn, Dawson, 6982. 
 
 A tax would bo cheerfully borne by a district, if not imposed on town alone ; Carrick-on-Shannon, 
 Cox, 6083. 
 
 And sec evidence, passim, of witnesses under Education. 
 
 Rathclaren School, Co. Cork : Lease under Association for Discouutcnancing Vice, paffe 320.
 
 IXDEX TO EVIDENCE. ^ 555 
 
 Rathconndl, Co. Wcstnicaih : 
 
 Schools or endowments iu Parish of llathconncll, 13102 ; Reynclla, 13089 H seq. ; Knockdriii 
 or Monelea, 13092, 13UU6 ; Turin, 13092 ; uncertainty as to endowments and identity of some of 
 these scliools, 13092. 
 
 luformal'wn from Reports of previoim Fnquh-ies, &c., 13090-2, 13095, 13097-8 ; grants from Lord 
 Lieutenant's Fund, ikc., for KoyncUa, 13090-1 ; for Monelea or Knockdrin, 13095-6-7 
 
 lieu. John Cowen, llathconncll Glebe, officiating clergyman of Knockdrin : — Letters from, 13092, 
 13098 ; evidence, 13U9G, 13100 et seq. Three sites of schools in the parish, — Knockdrin. lieynella, 
 Turin, 13101-2. 
 
 Knockdrin : school not in operation, closed in 1855 by Sir Richard Levinge ; schoolhouse and land 
 how occupied, 13100, 13112, 13115-8 ; house and endowment in hands of private persons, 13098. 
 
 Reynella : school not iu operation, closed for five or six years ; schoolhouse in existence ; it 
 and land occupied by private persons, 13098, 13092, 13103-5, 13119. 
 
 Turin : school in possession of Roman Catholics, and working well, 13092, 13107. 
 
 Clonlost : school not endowed, supported by annual voluntary subscriptions, 13098. 
 
 Richard W. Reynell, Esq., Killynon, Westmeath : — Letter from, as to discontinuance of Reynella 
 School, and present appropriation of the property, 13093. 
 
 Rathmore School : Evidence of Mr. Barlow, 19679; of Rev. Mr. Hamilton, 2-1237-41 : (see under 
 Erasmus Smith Board.) 
 
 Rathmidlen, Co. Donegal : 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Samuel Ciuig Nelson :— A National School, not endowed, 10291-5. 
 
 Register of Pupils and otiier particulars of Schools : — No Register kept, and discrepancies iu returns. 
 Balhjroan, Lyon, 4771, 4812-3; Cavan, Moore, 7892-7915; Qjcmantown, Co. Dublin, Hone, 
 22072-3-5 : — and see Accounts, and under names of particular schools. 
 
 Regulations for Schools : 
 
 Provisions of Erasmus Smith Charter in regard to, for schools under that foundation, 3818-22, 
 3834: (see under Erasmus Smith.) No rules for Grammar schools, beyond those in Charter; 
 Barlow, 21650-70; Hamilton, 21737 et Sfq.; Rules for English schools under Erasmus Smith 
 Board, Barlow, 21G71-6. 
 
 Evidence of Ecv. Hugh Hamilton, Registrar of Erasmus Smith Board, and Inspector of Schools 
 under that Board; Grammar Schools, 21650-70; English Schools, 21671-6, 21737 et seq. — 
 Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, &c., of the Board, 22G96 et seq., 22779 et seq., 22799 ;— see 
 under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Absence of any prescribed rules or regulations; Cori", Somerville, 1436-40; Elphin Diocesan 
 School, Flynn, 7389-90 ; Galway Erasmus Smith Schools, Rcid, 5827-41-51 ; Hallowell, 
 20186-92; MulUnijar Diocesan School, Geiv^hegnn, \Z\Q'2-1 . Want of rules, or rules not acted 
 on; Jlidleton, 18347-75, 18497-501, 18697-700 (see Midleton.) 
 
 And see under names of 2}(trticular Schools. 
 
 Reid, Mr. Andrew, Master of Erasmus Smith English School, Galway : — Evidence of, 5880 et seq. 
 Number of pupils, twenty ; all free pupils, 5737 : from upper classes of society in neighbourhood 
 of the town, 5747-8 : all Protestants, and taught Protestant catechism, 5749-50, 5753-4: there 
 Lave been Roman Catholics; no interference with their religious belief, 5750-2. Couuection of 
 school with Church Education Society, 5719, 5750-9. Books supplied by Erasmus Smith Board ; 
 insufficient supply of books and requisites ; quantity required and applied for not supplied, 5818-26. 
 Departures from rules of Erasmus Smith Board, 5878-9, 5827-41, 5851 : (see further, under Ca.'jway, 
 English School). 
 
 Religion : 
 
 Provisions of Erasmus Smith Charter in reference to, and letter uf Erasmus Smith (see under 
 Erasmus Smith). 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Hugh Hamilton, luspector and Registrar of Erasmus Smith Board, as to 
 religious instruction in English and Grammar Schools under that Board, and religious denomina- 
 tion of Masters and Mistresses, 21650-70, 21672-G. Evidence of Mr. Barlow, Chairman, ic. of 
 Erasmus Smith Board, as to mixed education, and schools under that Board, 22777 et seq. (see 
 under Erasmus Smith Board). 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Commissioners of Education, in reference to 
 schools under that Board, 21277-87. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Societ}^ iu reference to schools 
 under that Society, 23234, 23238-52: restrictions upon admission of Roman Catholics; only one 
 in all their boarding schools, 23238-46. 
 
 Importance of teaching religion ; success of schools, owing to the influence of. Corh, Christian 
 Brothers, Duggan, 1342-8. Waterford, Foy School, Bishop of Cashel, 17142. 
 
 Mixed schools, admitting pupils without religious distinction or interference with reliijious creed 
 of pujiils, and manner in which religious instruction is afforded. Armagh Royal School, (in\W.Qma.TA, 
 9398-9406, 9490-1, 9610-5. Ballyroan, Lyon, 4792-5. Banaghcr Royal School, Bell, 5298. 
 Belfast Academy, Bryce, 10341-2. Belfast Royal Academical Institution, 10415-8; Allen, 10420. 
 Cavan Royal Schoul,'},loorc, 7986-90. 'iVe-rford, Erasmus Smith, Booth, 479-90, 529. Drogheda, 
 Erasin us Smith, Lacy, 12783-8. Kilkenny Grammar School, Browne, 1 08, 1 24-8, and Bandon, 129, 
 136-40. Dungannon Royal School, Ringwood, 11787-91. Elphin Diocesan School, Flynn, 7359-61. 
 Ennis, Erasmus Smith, King, 3969. Killashee, Erasmus Smith, Bevan, 7745-80. Enniskillen Royal 
 School, Greham, 11994-5. Lijford Grammar School, Stewart, 11429-35, 11446-9. Drogheda 
 Grammar School, lacy, 12742, 12753, 12783-92. 
 
 Complaints as to Limerick Diocesan School, 2399, 2466 et seq. (see Limerick). Leamy School, 
 Limerick, complaint of exclusion of Roman Catholics (see Limerick), Kearney, 3663 ; Hosford,
 
 556 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Itelijinn,- — continued. 
 
 36G9-72, 3'i93-4 rf s^q. Giri/n Endowment, LondondeTTj, Skipton, 11037-4L Monaghan Diocesan 
 School, Mooney, 8722-3. Jachson School, Moiiac/hnii, 821)1 -307. ^Uuff', Erasnms Smith, Kylo, 
 10611-5,10034—5. 3Iulliugar,Hevey Endowment, 13357, 13307-8; placed under Christian Brotiieiv, 
 13395-7, 13417-34. .A oas Z/'^oce«a^^^S'eAclo/, but Koman Catholics withdrawn, 13830-3, 13949-01. 
 Meath Diocesn7i S'miiiani, Xavnn, Power, 13004 7. Rajihoe; Soi/ol School, Steele, 11243; lioherl- 
 son School, Fullerton, 1114C, 11155-05. M^'atei-ford Corporation School, Hoare, 280. 
 
 Decline of schools from supposed proselytisni or interference with the religion of the ))upils, 
 Ardee, Erasmus Smith, Hickcy, 123-70. Galiraj/, Eramius Smith Grammar Scliool, Hallowell, 
 20179-82 el seq. : Nesbitt, 23103-5 ; Blakenej', 0015-23, 0030-9. llonian Catholics prevented 
 from attendiiisr Erasmus Smith schools by present arrangements, Galway, Blakeney, 0030-9 ; 
 Hallowell, 20179-85. See wwdcr Gahoay. 
 
 Non-attendaneo of Roman Catholics at Erasmus Smith schools, though no interference with their 
 religion: Ennis, King, 39G9. Galwai/, 5719, 5749-59. Tralee, Carter, 2363-0. 
 
 Restrictions supposed to prevent Roman Catholics from entering the Royal Scliools : evidence of 
 Dr. Kyle, Secretary of the Clare-street Commissioners of Education, 21277-87. 
 
 Withdrawal of Roman Catholic children, owing to the religious instruction given, or reading of 
 the Scriptures: Shinrone, Savage, 5235-40. FaUa-''fjrecn (see Pallasgreen). Sirords {see S words). 
 Ballyroan, Bland, 4881-8. Kilhriclmi, Queen's County, 4915-5070. 
 
 Schoolhouse licensed for Divine service ; cliildrcn mostly Protestants, nearly all converts, for- 
 merly Roraau Catholics; breakfast; decline of school : I'allasyreen, Murphy, 4200-7 ei s?^. (see 
 Fallasgreen). 
 
 Disputes as to introduction of Roman Catholic religious instruction : Kilhrichen, Queen's County, 
 4915-5070. 
 
 Disputes respecting religious instruction and reading of particular books, and as to apiiiication 
 of endowment to particular religious denominations, and alleged proselytism ; Ardee, Erastniis Smith 
 School, 12370. Fallasgreen, Swords, <tc., (see Fallasgreen, Swords, &c., and see under uames of 
 particular scliools). 
 
 Question as to the application of endowment to the education of children of particular denomina- 
 tion : Wexford, Tate Endowment, Elgee, 448-50 ; Crean, 422, 430-8, 447 (see under Wex/ord). 
 
 Want of good schools for middle classes of all denominations, without religious distinction or 
 interference, and probability of success of .such schools: Gulwai;, Blakene3', 0025-9; Ne-sbitt, 
 23134, 23157-8, 23163-5 ; Daly, 5992-8 ; O'Leary, 0040 et seq. 'i\aas, Hayes, 139t3-8; Ilickey, 
 13979-80, 13987-9. Kilhrichen, Queen's Co., 4915-5070. Omagh, Ale.vander, 11002; Chap- 
 man, 11453-4 et seq., 11518, 11546-54. Monaghan, Archdeacon Russell, 9218-27. Wicklow, 
 Lrownrigg, 13691 et seq., 13710-20. Sligo, M'Euifl; 6784-98 ; O'Connor, 6721 el seq. 
 
 Scliool for particular denominations sliould be thrown open to all : Clonmel, Incorporated Society, 
 Kenny, 1041 ; Kcttlewell, 1044. Limericl; Leamy, 3003, 3009-72, 3093-4 (see under Limerick). 
 Altdlingar, llevey Endowment, 13367-S, 13395-7, 13417-34. 
 
 Objections to religious distinctions in the admission of pupils, and to rule of Incorporated Society 
 on the subject: Dundalh, Townsend, 12349-51 ; evidence of Rev. John W. Stubbs, f.t.c.d., mem- 
 ber of Incorporated Society, 20686-92. Sligo, M'Eniil', 6784 el seq. 
 
 Objection to mixed schools ; separate Protestant and Roman Catliolic scliools desired : Longford, 
 Stritch, 7700, 7730-3. EnniskiUeii, Hughes, 12219-26 ; and see Swords, &c. 
 
 Appointment of Roman Catholic assistants or teachers would meet objections to diocesan and 
 other Protestant schools: N^aas, De Burgh, 14013. Galway, Blakeney, 6015-23; O'Leary, 6040. 
 Waterford Corporation School, Dean Hoare, 286. Longford, Stritch, 7736. Swords, see Swords. 
 
 Objections to a clergyman for master of a mixed school ; Galway, O'Leary, 6040 ; Sligo, 
 JI-En'itr, 6798. 
 
 DUliculty in regard to admission of Boarders of different religious denominations in same school: 
 Carrick-on'-Shannon, Dawson, 6999-7003 ; how to bo obviated, 7004 ; Percy, 6992-8. Sliqo, 
 M'Eniff, 6784-98; O'Connor, 6721-5. Dungannon, Ringvvood, 11790, 11823-4, 11831. Galway, 
 Hallowell, 20184-5, 20278-90. 
 
 No serious diiiiculty in admitting and educating i)upils of different religious denominations: 
 Monaghan, Archdeacon Russell, 9223-7. Omagh, Chapman, 11518, 11546-51, 11553-4. Wicklow, 
 Brownrigg, examples, 13710-20. 
 
 Suggestions for overcoming difficulty as to Boarders of diti'eri'nt sects; Dinigannon, Ringwood, 
 11830-5 ; Carrick-on-Shannon, Dawson, 7004-6. No difficulty as retrards day scholars, Ringwood, 
 11830. No difficulty as regards boarders; examples, Brotvnrigg,'\N \ek\o\v, 13710-20; Dawson, 
 Carrick-on-Shannon, "7004-6; Sligo, M'Eniff, 6784-98. 
 
 As to pupils boarding out of school with masters of respective denominations; Dungannon, 
 Ringwood, 11828-35; Sligo, O'Connor, 6725. 
 
 Remuneration of Masters and Teachers : see Salaries. 
 
 Rents: see Estates, &.c. 
 
 AV/)at;'« of schoolhonscs, and want of funds for, see umhr Ihiildings. 
 
 Report, in 1791, id' Commissioners of Educatinn ln<iiiirv, aji|i(iinlcil in 17S8, now first published, 
 
 ;)(j-/fs 341-379. 
 Requisites for Scliools ; as to supply of Books, Maps, Stationery, and other .-iidioid requisites, see under 
 
 names of respective schools. 
 Ruid^'nce of Masters, <tc. : as to a]>prupriation of scliool accommodation for, sec under names of 2>ar- 
 
 ticular schools. 
 Returns of numlicrs, Ac, in Schools : — • 
 
 No registers kept, and discrepancies in returns; Jiallyroan, Lyon, 4771, 4S12-3; CaffiH, Moore, 
 
 7692-7915; Oxmantown, Hone, 22072-3-5. — St:e Accounts, and under names of iiarticular schools.
 
 IXDEX TO EVIDENCE. 557 
 
 Revlngton, Thi-mas, Esq., ciiiiildyiiig iscvcnty or <'i;,'lity roiinj^^ men in a large establishment at Linie- 
 rii^k ; evidence of, a.s to general state of education in locality, and want of lielter jiruvision for same, 
 4124 et sell. Defective connnereial education ; imiiortance of foreign languages ; value of a school 
 of design ; excellence of eilucation in sonic English schools, as Greenwich, ]jiruiingliani, &c., 
 4220 el seq. 
 
 Eeivards : sec ExJiihithins, rrkcs, etc., and under names of particular .'■■cliools. 
 
 Rcyndl, 7?/rAc(r(/ ir.,Es(i.,Killyuon, ^\ estnieatli : — Letter from, as to discontinuance of Pieyuella School, 
 Co. Wcslmeath, and present appropriaiiou of the proj)erty, 1;}U'J3 : (sec under Italli-coiinidl.) 
 
 Reynella, parish of Rathconuell, Co. Westnieath ; see umler RathconneU. 
 
 Eichardsoii, Captain : Endowments for schools at Tihallon, Co. Monaghan : — Bequest of j£100 left 
 by, at interest, to be divided between school and the poor, 'J2'.)l : (see under 'J'i/ui//oii.) 
 
 Ridiardson, Tlnmuis, Esq. : — Evidence of, as to " Carlovv Free School, euilowed liy Mathew Mur- 
 . 0'. '^' 
 
 liiiii/innod, Itev. Frederic/,: lloier, Head Master of Dungaunon Itoval School, (jo. Tyrone : Letter of 
 (18.51) in reference to a menioriiil of inhabitants of ])ungannou complaining of maiiagenu'nt of th(^ 
 school (see under JJiiw/imnun), 11743 : — Evidence of, 11749-11879 ; written otatenicut handed in, 
 as to combination of classical and commercial education in .schools, 11821. 
 
 Bad state of buildings on his appointment ; repairs, additions and alterations for improvement of 
 accommodation, and at whose expense, 11752-9. 
 
 Pu])ils from almost all classes of society ; a large number for the army, the bar, and the church, 
 medicine, engineering, and trade, 11792-3. Chiefly Church of England Protestants, some Presby- 
 terians, Methodists, and one Quaker ; has had Roman Catholics ; no objection ever mailo to his 
 school on religious grounds, 11787-91. 
 
 Difficulty as to ailmission of Koman Catholics as boarders, 11790, 11823-4, 11801 ; suggestions 
 as to overcoming this difficulty, 11830-5; no difficulty in regard to day scholars, 11830. As to 
 boarders living with assistant masters or elsewhere ; difficulty regarding boys of iliflerent religious 
 denominations, 1 1 828-35. 
 
 Free pu|)ils selected by master; had no instrnctii:ns about free pujdls on his appointment; 
 grounds of selecti<in, 11764 7, 11852-3. Comjilaiut of Mr. Lilburu, kee[)er of Raufurley Arms, as 
 to treatment of free boys, unfounded and uujustiliable (see under Dirngauiion), 117G8-71, 11809, 
 11772-4,11810. 
 
 E.xhibitions for students of merit from lloyal Schools to Trinity College, established ; for Dun- 
 gannon, five annually at i'50 a-year, and five at .£30 a-year, for five years, 9348. 
 
 Library belonging to school, of a<lvanced cla.^sical books, not fit for use of boys, and such as he 
 liopes never to rcail himself, 11801-2. No lil)rary for use of lioys for reading; anxious to get 
 one; often lends the boys books fnjm his own ; fines for absence beyond allowed vacation applied 
 to purchase of instructive and amusing books ; but fines make them return regularly, and c(jnse- 
 quently little means from this source; would be afraid to attempt subscriptions from boys for 
 library, 11803-8. 
 
 Course of instruction : — includes classics, mathematics, and modern languages, in ordinary school 
 hours ; Greek, Latin, Hebrew-, French, German, ancient and modern history, and Enijlish educa- 
 tion generally, 11794-800; has a few pupils receiving English education only; only two boys 
 who, by desire of their parents, learn no language besides their own, sons of Presbyterian clen'y- 
 men, 11790-7. 
 
 Combination of classical and commercial or mercantile education ; some enter university and 
 professions, others go to commerce and mercantile life ; written statement of bis views on the subject 
 11818-21. Cla.ssical and commercial education not antagonistic; dead-language system alone 
 altogether inadequate to wants of ])rescnt day ; mode of condiiuing necessary parts of classical 
 course with modern e<lucation; modilleation of course prescribed by Clare-street Commissioners of 
 Education; practicability and advantages of combining the two systems of education; further 
 detail of course recommended, 1 1821. Practicability of an extensive course of education, in variety 
 of branches, without the knowledge acquired being superficial, 11872-9. 
 
 A real educational want in this country, of an intermediate clas? of schools in towns and jiopulous 
 localities, above the primary or National schools, to impart a higher order of education in practical 
 sciences, and also to lit pu])ils for admission to free iilaccs in the Royal and similar schools, and in 
 Queen's Colleges, or enable them to go direct to their future occupations, 11S21, 11S5S. 
 
 Proprietary schools; unlikelihood of their successful establishment in Ireland as in England 
 11821, 11854-7. 
 
 Masters and assistant masters, their position and improvement : — Want of inducements an<l 
 rewards for masters and assistants, by promotion and placing the schools on a proper footing'. 
 11825-G, 11827-8. As to retiring pensions after a certain nuudjer of years, or change by promo- 
 tion to other scliools, 1183G-7. As to qualiiications of assistants, in regard to future advancement 
 to mastership ; objections to examination alone ; cpialifications required which cannot be tested by 
 a public examination, 11837-51. 
 
 Probable effects of throwing open appointments in civil, militarj-, and naval service, to public 
 competition of youths from all schools ; would be beneficial to education generally, but doubts 
 whether it is the most wholesome stimulus ; difference between this and present system of exhibi- 
 tions ; risk of attention being given to specialities only, and of more general course leading to 
 superficial knowledge only ; effects on masters and ou pupils, 11859-79. 
 
 Roherh. Michael, Esq., Agent of the Foy School Estate, Waterford : — Evidence of, as to accounts and 
 rental, management of estates, leases, rents and arrears, as compared with other properties ; survey 
 and valuation ; allowances to tenants ; evictions and losses, ^-c., \Q8i'2 et seq. 
 
 Sug:jestions for improved management, by encouraging improvements, 1G875-6. As to agricul- 
 tural improvements and instruction, schools, system of farming ; want of supervision and attention 
 to system pursued by tenantry, and of cfiorts for its improvement, 1GS77-907. 
 Vol. II. ■ 4 C
 
 558 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Jiobei-ts, J/tc7fat7, Esq., Foy School, Waterford, — continued. 
 
 Apprentice fees ; paid half on apprenticing, and half after six iiioutlis ; jiroccedings iu case ol 
 complaints against masters, lC9o2-5. 
 
 Acts relating to the charity, 160G1-3. Its general management, and alterations made therein 
 by the bishop, 16964-6 — (See under Waler/ord.) 
 
 Eoha-tson, Colonel; parochial schools endowed by, in Diocese of Raphoe, lllOS; school at Eaphoe, 
 11128: {sec liaphoe.) 
 
 JRobinson, Ker. /. L , Buttevant, Co. Cork : — Letter from, 1149 : Evidence of, 1154 ef seq., as to school 
 endowed towards close of sixteenth century by Hon.liobert Boyle ; a house and £20 a-year, a per- 
 manent charge on the Buttevant estate ; no school since 182u ; house in ruins ; discontinued by 
 a late owner of the estate, 1119, 1154 et svj. : {see Buttevant.) 
 
 Eoclie, William, a draper, formerly a pupil in the Bishop Foy's school, Waterford : Evidence of, as to 
 his complaints of food in the school, 17412-Gl. — (See under Waterford.) 
 
 Boden, Earl of ; Letter from, as to Bryansford school, Co. Down, and grant from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund : — always considered the school under his own jurisdiction ; the grant from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund was towards building the school, and no endowment, the rest of the amount required being 
 contributed by his lordship, who also pays the schoolmistress's salary ; the Government had nothing 
 to do with management of the scliool, 9767. — See Bryansford. 
 
 Rolhton, John Dn-moH, master of Clogher Endowed School : Letters from ; particulars as to endow- 
 ments, and diversion of some of them from their original purpose, 11645-6. Evidence of; manage- 
 ment of schools, course of instruction, itc, 11657-11719 : — (See further, under Clogher.) 
 
 Other schools in vicinity : one under Church Education Society and three under National Board, 
 11678-9. 
 
 Rcmian CatlwUc Schools : 
 
 Kilmore Academy, Cavan (see Kilmore], 7786 et seq. 
 Meath Diocesan Seminary, Navan (see under Xavan.) 
 
 Christian Brotliers' and "other se\ioQ\& {see Christian Brothers, Tin^ under Names of respective 
 Schools or Localities.) 
 
 Boscommon, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools aud endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 Roscommon, 7007 et seq. 
 
 Endowment by Miss Anne Ilall for a school at Roscommon, 7449 et seq. 
 Ranelagh Girls School, 7010, &c., 7103 etsrq. 
 
 MISS HALLS ENDOWMENT. 
 
 Will of Miss Anne Hall, anno 1841, bequeathed £250 for building and furnishing a schoolhouse 
 for boys and girls, on ground pointed out by her, iu town of Roscommon ; and for building 
 dwelling-house for master and mistress, 7449. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Fitzgerald, curate of Roscommon, and visiting manager of Ranelagh 
 School, 7430-3 : bequest not carried out, 7451. 
 
 Referred to Commissioners of Charitable Bequests, 7449, 7453. 
 
 RANELAGH GIRLS SCnOOL, ROSCOMMON. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries, ke. — Account of foundation of cliarity schools at 
 Atblone (see Athlone,) for boys, at Roscommon for girls, by the Earl of Ranelagh ; Will and Act 
 of Parliament under wliich established ; income aud expenditure, number of jjupils at various times; 
 free schools in connection witli Incorporated Society, 7007-15. 
 
 Satisfactory answering on examination of pupils; well taught, and under good management; 
 n-ood order and cleaidiness of school, 7104-5. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Fitzgerald, curate of Roscommon, visiting manager of Roscommon 
 Ranela'di School, 7103 et seq. Attributes the high character given of the school by the Commis- 
 sioners, and its successful management, to the system of admission by examination, and to vigilant 
 superintendence, examination, aud catechising, 7104, 7109-13. Success of pupils in after-life, 
 7J05-8, 7126-7. 
 
 Dietary; healthy and cleanly t-ondition of children; dieted by master at 5hd. ]ier Jay, 
 7114-20. Industrial occupations of the cliildrcn in the work of the house, nuihing their clothes, itc, 
 7121-5. 
 Rossniore, Lady ; endowment for school at Drumcrutten, Co. T.Ionaghan (see Druvicrutten), 9289 et seq. 
 
 liossmore, Lord : — Bequest by Alexander Cairnes, Esq., for a mathematical master at Monaghan : 
 dispute as to its application, and liability under will <if Mr. Cairnes ; evi<lence of Lord liossmore, 
 wlio claims the ilisposal of tlie bequest, 9143-52, 9177-82 : has not been paid by him since the 
 death in 1841 of last Lord liossmore, 9177-8. — (See wnAer Monaghan.) 
 
 Roivan, Rev. A. B., D.D., Belmont, Tralee : Letter from, as to Erasmus Smith School formerly at 
 Aunagraguo or Upper Blennerville, Co. Kerry, discontinued more than twenty years ago ; no 
 endowed school in Blennerville, 2341. 
 
 Royal Belfa-it Academical Institution (sec under Belfast), 10415 etseq. 
 
 Royal Schools : — Clare-street Commissioners of Education : — 
 
 Extracts from Patent Rolls of Irish Court of Chancery, relating to, pages 337-340. Letter of 
 11 Jas. 1. ordering Letters Patent for endowment of free schools in Ulster and maintenance of 
 ma.iiierH, page 'i'il : Letter of 13 Jas. I. ordering,' grants of lands to Archbislioj) of Armagh, for 
 schools and glebe.'!, page 338 : Lette^^ Patent rif 13 Jas. I. fniimliiig free scImkjI at DungaMiion, and 
 appointing schoohn'ister, page 33H : Letter of 17 Jas. I. ordering Letters Patent for conveying 
 lauds for free schools to Archbishop of Armagh, for distribution, kc.,i>age 330.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 559 
 
 Roi/al Schools, — con t i i; ue J. 
 
 Evidcneo of Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Clare-street Coinmlssioners of Education in reference to ; see 
 under A'l/le, Commissioners of Education, &c. 
 
 Complaints of management of, and of estates : sec under Commissioners of Ediiculioii, and under 
 names of the respective scliools. 
 
 Statement of tlie Priinatc, Annasli, in answer to complaint of misapplication of tlio endow- 
 ment, and non-fullilnient of tlio trust, 9370 : (see Armaglt, and other Royal Schools). 
 
 Snggestions for improvement of the schools and management of their estates; Cavan, Moore, 
 
 7878 ; and see under respective schools and ivitncsses. 
 
 Armagh, 9334 et seq. ; and estates, 96G4 etseq. 
 
 Baiia','hrr, Queen's Co. (sometimes called Cuba School), 5263 etseij. 
 
 Cavan, 78:20 et seq. ; estates, 8103 et seq. 
 
 Dunuiinnou, (_'o, Tyrone, 117:20 et seq. : estates, see under Commissioners of Edtccation, 
 
 Enniskillen (or Portora), Co. Fermanagh, 11880 etseq. 
 
 Baphoe, Co. Donegal, 11203e< seq. 
 
 See under the Names of the respective Schools or Localities. And see Clorjher, Oxmantoini, &c. 
 
 Rules for management of schools: — see Rcgidations. 
 
 Russell, Venerable John A., Arclideacon of Clogher, a visitor of Diocesan School at Monaghan, in 
 1849 ; Evidouco as to a visitation of the school, 918-^ et seq. Grounds of the visitation, dissatisfac- 
 tion which prevailed; report of visitation unfavourable, 9198-920G, 9228—59. Visitors reported 
 to Clare-street Commissioners of Education ; recommended annual inspection of this and other 
 diocesau schools ; no steps talicn by the Board thereon, 920S-9. 
 
 General complaints of inefficiency of the diocesau schools, and want of inspection ; desirableness 
 of regular inspection, 9210-7. 
 
 Want of good cla.ssical, commercial, ami mathematical school at Monaghan ; no reason why 
 diocesan schools should not be made efKcient for mathematical education ; no ditficulty in combining 
 the two courses of education in the same school; desirableness of endowment for the purpose, 
 9218-22 ; no serious difliculty in admitting and educating pupils of diflerent religious denomina- 
 tions, 9223-7. 
 
 As to Clogher District Dioccs.an School at JMonaghan, see further under 3Ionaghan. 
 
 Ruxton, Mr. John, watchmaker. Churchwarden, Town Commissioner, Longford; Evidence of, as to 
 general state of education and want of adecpiate provision for same, in localit}', 7739-7742, 7751 
 et seq. 
 
 Want much felt, of a mixed scb.ool for difTerent religious denominations, witli proper secular 
 instruction, and proper means for religious instruction apart and not at regular school luiurs, 773G, 
 7741-2 : such a school could be carried on successfully, aiid the colleges would then be a boon to the 
 people, provided classical education be given in the school, 7742. 
 
 Nature of the education required in such school : a good English mercantile education, and Latin 
 and Greek ; grammar, geography, mensuration, and classics, 7757-8 : and modern languages, which 
 however are not so much required in an inland town like Longford, as in commercial education and 
 for counting-house, where they are indispensable, 7759-60. 
 
 Probable average payment by middle class for such education from £2 to £4 a-ycar, 7752-5. 
 
 Ri/an, R. W., Esq. ; Evidence of, as to Tate endowment for education, Wexford : Produces a copy of 
 the will obtained from Bccjuest Board, 423. 429 ; (see under Wexford.) 
 
 Saintfield, Co Down : (Lord Lieutenant's Fund.) 
 
 Information from Report of a previous Inqnirij, as to grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund on condi- 
 tiou of a grant of land in perpetuity being obtained, 9744. 
 
 Evidence of Alexander Bn.dley, Esq., Patron, 9745-65. Grant of i;iOO from Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, and hundreds besides, expended on the building; a large school for benelitof children of the town, 
 cost i.'500 or .£600, with accommodation for teacher and acre of ground, 974S, 9763. Thinks no 
 lease of it was executed ; no deed of trust, or writings, except subscription list, 9749, 9760-1-2, 
 9764-5. No account how the money was expended ; more costly building than was contemplated ; 
 under management of landowner, Mr. Price, and his agent ; no interference v/ith them, 9748, 9763. 
 No rent ever paid lor it, 9753, 9756. Controversy as to placing it under National Board, 9751-2, 
 9758-9. 
 
 St. JohCs National School, Kilkennj', 150. 
 
 St, Johnstown, Co. Longford : 
 
 Information from previous Reports, kc, 74G1-3 : a school formerly at St. Johnstown, with an 
 endowment by Sir Walter Ealeigh (7461, 7463,) or Sir James Ware (7462,) of sixty or seventy 
 acres of land, with schoolhouse and residence for master, 7461-2 : neglect of Corporation in re- 
 gard to annual rc-elrction of schoolmaster, who between 1770 and 1780 bequeathed the lands as 
 his own to bis son, who retained forcible possession and sold them to an attorney, whose family have 
 continued to enjoy thoni : referred to Charitable Bequests Board in 1812 as a case of embezzle- 
 ment ; 1761-2. Endowment not since in operation, 1763. 
 
 Rev. Theodore 0. Moore, vicar of Clonbroney : letter from, calling attention to this a.s an endow- 
 ment for a Protestant school, 7460 : evidence of, 7464-92. Persons now residing in Clonbroney 
 who have beeu at the school under the master referred to, and remember its being in operation, 
 7465 : abstract of v. ill of Sir James Ware, Ac, drawn up by an old man who had seen it and had 
 also attended the school as a pupil, 7465-7. Schoolhouse still in existence, but alienated and no 
 longer a school ; sold and resold several times, and again very recentl}', 7465-70. The townland 
 bequeathed still called School-lands, 7469. Wrote to the Commissioners of Charitable Bequests, 
 and previous rector made eflbrts for recovery of endowment ; but difficulty in procurin" will of 
 Vol. II. ' 4C-2,
 
 560 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 St. Johnstown, Co. LonjjforJ — continued. 
 
 Sir James Ware, 7470. Scliool in operation till 1702 or '3; persons living wlio can prove their 
 attendance at it, 7471-2. Further evidence ; suggested that will and ilocunients may be in the 
 Granard familv ; no steps taken by Charitable Bequests Comniissioners, who only acknowledged 
 Lis letter, 7473-92. 
 
 St. Marys Parochial Schoid, Kilkenny, 149. 
 
 St Mary Sluindon, Cork ; j 
 
 St. NHwlas, Cork ; ^ Moses Deane's Endowments ; see under Corh 
 
 St. Peter's, Cork : J 
 
 St. Steplien's Hospital, or Blue Coat School, Cork ; see under Corl\ 
 
 Salaries of Schoolmaster and Assistants, etc. : see under Maslc-s, and under names of particular 
 
 schools. 
 Saynueh, John, Esq., Registrar of diocese of Dublin and Glendalough ; Letter from, as to Diocesan 
 
 School, Wicklow ; no diocesan schoolmaster since 1634 ; none for years before 1624 ; not aware of 
 
 any endowment now, 13G90. — Sec under Wir/doiv. 
 
 Sanders, Rev. Francis Ale.rander, Rector of Castlemacadani, Co. Wicklow ; Letter from, as to supposed en- 
 dowed school at N^ewbridu'e, Castlemacadani, to which a grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund is stated to 
 have been made ; as to a National School, under patronage of Rev. Mr. Kearney, p.p. of Newbridge, 
 attached to Roman Catholic Chapel ; and as to a grant for building a scliool at Castlemacadani by 
 the Association for Discountenancing Vice, supported by Lord Powerscoui-t, who pays the salaries 
 of teachers, 13740 : — (see Casikmacadam.) 
 
 Sandys, Rev. W. li., Rector of Ballintemple, Co. Tippcrary : Communications from, and correspond- 
 ence with Bequest Board, G.57-0G0, GGl : — gives the will of Mr. Hickey, who be<|ueathed .£100 to 
 be put to interest for an English school, in parish of Ballintemple, for ever, G56. No school or 
 schoolm.aster under such endowment for last twenty-four years, GGl. Previously paid for some 
 years till Board of Charitable Bequests (or Board of Education 1 see Ffthard,) compelled Mr. Arm- 
 strong to deliver up the endowment, which was paid to their agent or attorno}', who became insol- 
 vent, and the money was lost ; complains of conduct of the Board, G57, GGl. 
 
 Mr. Sandys also communicates a letter of inquiry from Secretary of Charitable Bequests Board 
 as to a bequest by a person named Berry, towards a school in Ballintemple, •which had heretofore 
 been paid by the Rev. Messrs. Lord and Armstrong, Ga9. 
 
 Santry, Co. Dublin ; Incorporated Society : 
 
 A training, classical and commercial school under Incorporated Society ; their head scliool, 
 963-7 : principally for fitting pupils to bo masters ; Incorporated Society almost exclusively em- 
 ploy masters educated in their own training school, 9GS-9. Instruction in physical sciences, 
 977-9. Scholarships for boys from Incorporated Society's ordinary schools to Farra Institution, 
 (see Farra). and thence to Santry ; e.\amination and competition for same, 995-1005, 13452-4, 
 13472-83, 13G34. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. R. Ardill, Secretary of Incorporated Society, as to Santry School, 20-")98-9, 
 20603-7 : thechief feature of the lucorjiorated Society's system, and the institution for which all their 
 other arrangements are preparatory, 23307 : its object to give an education to enable boys to take 
 situations as clerks, &c., but especially as schoolmasters, 23307 : receive a first-class education in 
 science, and eligible for any appointment for which a first-class English education would qualify 
 them, 23327. Account of the school, its cost and management, payments bv boarders, course of 
 instruction, (tc., 20598-9, 20603-13, 23311 ei seq. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John W. Stubb.s, f.t.c.d , Incorporated Society, as to Santry Training School ; 
 nature of instruction and examination of the pujiils, 20G58-9, 20G79-S1. Exhibitions, 20C80-1. 
 Suggestions for further iiiiprovenient, and advancement of boys in 'the higher branches of science, 
 and for attendance at lectures in natural and experimental sciences, 20660-2. Visitation and 
 examinations at Santry, 20GGS-71. — (See Incorporated Society.) 
 
 Savage, Rev. William Eroionhw, Rector of Shinrone, King's Co. : — Letter from, as to Shinrone School, 
 (see Shinrone,] endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 5229 ; evidence of, 5232 ct seq. 
 
 Foundation and sources of support of school, 5229, 5241, 5261. 
 
 Visitation and inspection of school twice a-year by Church Education Society, 5242-3. Constant 
 visiting of the school by himself : allegation as to incompetency of master quite unfounded, 5234-5. 
 Successful after-life of girls educated there, 5239. 
 
 Have been Roman Catholic as well as Protestant jmpils ; but the former removed ; iicoplo desire 
 to have their children at the school, but arc not permitted by the Uoman Catholic jiriest; ojiposition 
 to Roman Catholics attending, owing to the Scriptures being read, and withdrawal of children, 
 523.'5-40. 
 
 Boys' .school, could hold forty, girls' fifty; had those numbers formerly, before the opposition, 
 5238 : needlework and embroidery for girls, 5253. 
 Scardeville,'DcMi, and Archileacou Ilcwitson'a Endowments iov a Prcitestant School at Swords, Co- 
 Dublin ; sec Swords. 
 
 Scholarships : (see Exhiliilioiis). 
 
 School scholarships or foundation .schol.irs in Enniskillcn Royal Schocd, 11892, 11913, 1192G-?, 
 11959-67, 2 1228 <;<.scY. 
 
 Insufficiency of exhibitions under Er.i-'mus Smith for College ; would lie beneficial as .tchnol 
 8chol.ar.ship-.; Emik, King, 3SG4-8, 3872, 405G ; (,'almiy, Killeen, 5500; llallowell, 202G2-4. 
 Sco under Fxliibilions, ifcc. and names of witnesses. 
 Schoolkouses : sec BuihUwji, Sites, &c. 
 Schools on Estates, or for tenants of scliool estates : sec under A'slatc iichools, Fslatts, Tenants.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 5G1 
 
 Sciences, yaliiral: 
 
 Value and importance of instruction in natural anil cxjjcrimcntal sciences, natural history, clic- 
 niistry, ineclianics, lU-., ami mode of teaciiing: Jielfast, Bryce, 10355-G7 ; Dunvillc, 10487-501 ; 
 I'attcrson, lO.'iO^-l.'). Clunincl, Canavan, 070-8. Ennls, Kin^, 3883-5. Ijaiahnidcrrii, Escott, 
 108U7-7U, 10935-8. MuUimjar, Gibcon, 13339 et seq. Onuii/li., Alexander, 1 15C7-8, 11571-0. 
 Oxmanfoim, Lc I'an, 2:'G04-5, 22055-G ; Bra.ly, 2249I-G ; Kyle, 22570-4, 21270-4. linp/w, 
 Moynl School, Steele, 11334-8. \V<it< rjhnl, Fo;/ School, O'DoiioIioe, 1G5'J5, lGGOl-4, 1GC15-22. 
 Elphin, Dean Warburton, 731G-8. 
 
 Great want of means of instruction in tliese branches: Sliffo, Tucker, C740-I. 
 
 Schools in which taught as a part of the school course: Cork, Christian Brothers, Duggan, 
 1251-G4, 1288-91, 1303-4. Gwijn School, Londouda'ry, Skiplon, 110J7-G2. Santry, Incorpo- 
 rated Society, 977-9. 
 
 And see under names of schools. 
 
 Scombcry, Miss JI. : Endowment for Scliools at Kilmore, Co. Monaghan, 9305. 
 
 Scott, Rev. Dai'id ILnry, licad nuister of District Diocesan School, Carlow, for Dioee.scs of Ossory and 
 Loighlin, 1-71. 
 
 Ruinous condition of the .si-lioolli(iii!<e and ]ircmises. and unsuitability for tlicir purposes ; repro- 
 senlations from time to time to the Clare-street Commissioneivs of Educ.ilion, of the dilapidated 
 eondition of tiie buildings, their insullicieney for sclioid ])urjKises, and the conscijuent dissatis- 
 faction tiiroughout the district ; memorialized tlio Lord Lieutenant at the instance of the 
 Bishop, 2, 15-24. Provisions of 53 Geo. 3, c. 107, Grand Jury Act, 7. Grand Jury not obliged 
 to presiMit for the repair and upholding of the school buildings, the school being a district school for 
 united dioceses, 3-G, 8-14, 22-2G, 55-Gl, G8-71. 
 
 Clare-street Board in their annual reports refer to ihe dilapidated state of the diocesan schools, 
 owing to their want of funds for repairs, and tiio ditKoultics from the state of the law regariling 
 Grand Jury presentments, G2-GG. lm]iossib!e to carry on the business of the school in the school 
 premises; carried on iii a house in the town taken at his own expense, but not suitable without an 
 cmtlay for titting-up, 2, 27-31, 35. 
 
 Small nundier of pujiils ; diniinislied from eighteen to fifteen since he left the diocesan school- 
 house ; if the latter were in proper rejiair, miglit calculate upon a respectable school ; a strong 
 feeling against the place as it is, 32-3G. 
 
 Course of instruction and after pursuits of pupils; only one entered to Trinity College : other 
 scliools in the town an<l neighiiourhood, 37-54. 
 
 Scott, John W., Esq., Agent of Lord Midlcton : letter as to Jlidleton Endowed School, County Cork, 
 trustees, nature and \aiue of endowment ; lands let much below their value; visitation in 1854 for 
 inf[uiring into complaints of school management, 17G28. — (See Midlcton.) 
 
 Searson, Mr. Richard, master of Green Coat Hospital, Cork : Evidence of, 1G97 et seq. 1994. Three 
 schools in the establishment — male, female, and infant schools, 1752 : has nothirg to do with the 
 teaching of the two latter, but looks after the building generally, 170G-8. 
 
 Number and appropriation of rooms and accommodation in the buildings, school, .and almshouse ; 
 fortv-four rooms ; four apartments for master, four for mistress, three for infant mistress, 1822-.5, 
 1839-43. Two rooms for librarv : does not know what sort of books in it ; some for children, 
 Sunday school library, given out to cliildreu, though never saw them given out ; others not, belong 
 to trustees or governors, 182G-38. School books supj)licd by trustees, 1738-9, 1792. 
 
 Unsatisfactory and unwholesome condition of school buildings ; want of repairs ; dirty state of 
 schoolroom, 1803-12, 1818-21 ; reported the want of repairs, etc., to trustees, who thought there 
 were not enough present to make a board, 1799-1801 : a board last Tuesday; (uiglit to have been 
 whitewashed, Ac, in July, but no board to order it ; going to be done, 1802-3. 
 
 Constitution of Board of Trustees ; annu.al election by themselves, 1C95, 1742-5, 1930. 
 
 All free pujiils, about 25 : no boarders; had formci-ly. hut trustees stopped them, 1701-G, 1755. 
 Falling ofl' of late in numbers, causes; female and infant scliools now increasing. 1732-5, 173G, 
 1753-4. 
 
 Course of instruction ; readini:, writing, arithmetic, some geography and grammar, 1737, 1781-G; 
 school hours, and course of business, play, and discipline, 1761-7.5, 1851-4. 
 
 Punishments ; sometimes corporal punishment, by slapjiing on the hand, with a cane ; but never 
 flogs the boys, except perhaps a few slaps over the shoulder with the same cane : does not consider 
 that flogging ; calls it punishing him ; would not count it flogging, which is a severe beating ; no 
 distinction between that and punishing ; all the same thing, in difTerent wa^'s of expression, 
 1910-22. 
 
 Boys dirty, disagreeable to be near them ; always jmnishes them for it, 1813-7. Irregularity 
 of attendance of buys ; want of rewards and encouragements, 1854-G5, 1923-9. 
 
 Inspection of school, under Churcii Education Society ; their Inspector's attendance irregular ; 
 six or eight times in eight years, 1707-20, 1725-31 : nature of inspection, 1756-9. Secretary of 
 the institution visits almost daily, 1707, 1721. Examination by other visitors who come in; a 
 <leputation from Incorporated Sjciety twice, 1721-2. Trustees inspect often, nearly every board, 
 held once a month or oftener, 1723-4 : examination of boys by some of the trustees occasionally, 
 and catechising by Rev. Mr. Lee weekly, 1867-1909. — (See under Cork.) 
 
 Shandon, St. Jfary, Cork ; see under Cor/c. 
 
 Shannon Grove, Co. Limerick : 
 
 Communication from Alderman Henry Watson, late mayor of Limerick, as to property attached 
 
 to late Charter school at Shannon Grove or in Limerick, 4730-1-2.
 
 562 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Shannon Grove, Co. Limerick — continued. 
 
 Information from Reports of previous Inquiries, as to property of late Clmrtor seliool, 4731, 4733. 
 Lan.ls of Charter scliools granted on certain conditions and reverted to original owners on discon- 
 tinuance of scliool?, 4731. 
 
 Returns to present Inauiry ; no such school now, 4731. Ecturnof estate by Incorporated Society 
 4731, 4731. 
 
 Shaw, Rev. George, Rector of Aiinadufl', Co. Leitrim i Letter as to school endowment, Drumsna or 
 Annaduff : considers tlie school referred to to be one establislied in Drumsna by late Mrs. Waldron 
 with a grant from Lord Lieutenant ; school long discontinued, and house now occupied by Mr. 
 Waldron's caretaker, part being used as Sessions-house, 6921. — (See Annaduff.) 
 
 Shaw, Mr. Jou7i, master of Drogheda Blue School; Evidence of, 12434-12681. Not trained as a 
 schoolmaster; experience in teaching:, 12434-40. Is also parish clerk, with a salary for that 
 office, 124.50-1, 12681. 
 
 Sources and amount of income for cihicating, feeding, and clothing the boys, and apjsrenticing 
 with fees; £440 a-ycar, 12673-5. Salary aud allowances of master .£42 a-year, house, coals^ 
 candles, and soap, 12676-80. 
 
 Books, (to., supplied by vicar and treasurer; books selected by master and purchased from Church 
 Education Society, because they are so cheap, 1244 0-7, 12615-8. 
 
 Boys have new clothing once a year ; badly ofl' for clothing, 12448-9, 12621-3. 
 
 Thirteen boys in school, all boarders and Protestants ; and maintenance allowed from the funds 
 for one absent in ill-health ; some of them sons of freemen ; when freemen do not apply, sons of 
 poor Protestants, orphans from Protestant Orphan Society, and deserted children, admitted, 
 12441-2, 12444-5. 
 
 Admitted on petition by the votes of the governors at general meeting of subscribers ; cannot 
 state principle of selection, 12443, 12019-20. 
 
 Apprentices from the school; fee with them £4 10s., considered small; trades to which appren- 
 ticed; two left and went to sea, 12647-52. 
 
 Course of instruction : reading, writing, spelling, English grammar, geography, sometimes book- 
 keeping ; ages and degree of proficiency, 12641 et seq. 
 
 Ignorance of the boys aud very bad answering on examination, after some years in school, 
 12640-62. 
 
 Universal want of cleanliness throughout the establishment, and filthy state of everything in it, 
 the rooms, the bedding, the books, the boys, 12452-12613, 12630-2, 12664-72. Filthy state of 
 dormitory from night buckets, not di.-^gusting or offensive to master, 12459-63 : bedding old, worn, 
 and filthy ; rarity of fresh straw ; bedticks in constant use never washed since they were bought 
 four or five years ago ; has counterpanes anil blankets in constant use for eleven years, never 
 washed, 12474-12523 ; looked black with filth, but " the colour they have ever been ;" the dirtiest 
 washed within six months, the cleanest not for eleven years, 12521, 12523. In school-room, 
 master did not see any greater accumulation of dirt and filth than usual ; cannot bo very clean ; 
 in .same state as usual, 12507-8. The kitchen a slob, 12582. Dining-hall, 12587-8, 12000-7; 
 peculiarity of the boards, which will not wash white, 12012-3. Shamefully filthy st.ate of copy 
 pieces and copy books ; thinks them clean, 12009, 12071. Boys' hair-cutting, 12024-9 ; have no 
 combs nor brushes, 12030-2; their treatment when ill, 12033-0. Personal dirt; boj's bathed in 
 the Boyne once in the year, the only occasion they have been washed all over during the year, 
 12503-4. One boy absent with sore foot; surgeon thought itshould be cut off, from scrofula, 12442. 
 
 Inspection of school, none; no one comes to inspect it; the vicar sonictiincs or his assistants may 
 cotne in ; a subscriber comes in sometimes; no report book of visits; rector aud curate have been in 
 bod-room ; no complaint ever made as to the filthy state of the dormitory, the dirt of the kitchen, 
 the dirt of the dining-hall, the dirt of the boys j one very dirty boy noticed and sent out to wash 
 his hands, 12590-611. 
 
 Accounts kept by treasurer, all bills given to him ; passed by directors, some of whom arc gene- 
 rally summoned at end of year, 12021-3, 12037-9.— See further, under Drogheda. 
 
 Sheridftn, Rev. James, Roman Catholic Curate: — Evidence of, as to Borough School of Swords, Co. 
 Dublin : withdrawal of Roman Catholic cliildren from the sciiool, in 1853, and the Roman Catholic 
 chapel used for a girls' school, and a boys' school adjoining in the town, the latter under National 
 Board, 14104-10, 14114. No proposition from the Borough School Governors to provide for 
 education of the children who had been withdrawn ; no aid from them or for boys' school from 
 National Board ; dej)cndcnt altogether on voluntary support of the j)eople, 14111-0. 
 
 Average, about 150 girls so educated ; importance of education for them, and improvement in 
 morals and conduct since withdrawal from borough school, 14118-22. — (See under Swords.) 
 
 Shiel, Mr. Bryan Joseph, master of Xatimial School, Swords, for twenty-three years : — Letter from, 
 comphiining of a system of proselytism in Swords Borough School and injustice to Roman Catholics, 
 14033: Evidence to saino effect, 14198-204. Written statement read, describes stejjs taken by 
 liim in reference to grounds of complaint in regard to instruction aud distribution of coals, medicine, 
 apprentice fees, itc, and warning of dismissal received from the Archbishop, 14200. — (See under 
 Swords.) 
 
 Shinrone, King's Co. : 
 
 Boys and girls school : Endowment, grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, and land on which liouso 
 and garden stand, 5228-31. 
 
 Letter from Rev. P. O'Malloy, p.p., Brosna, Roscn^a, complaining of incompetency of teacher, and 
 necessity of inquiry as to the schools, which arc exclusively Protestant, 5230. 
 
 Reo. Williftm Brownlow Savage, rector, Shinrone : — Letter describing fomidation and sources of 
 support of school, 5229, 5241, 5201. Evidence : in constant habit of visiting the school ; considers
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 563 
 
 Shinrone, King's Co. — continued. 
 
 the ;illcf;:ition ;is to incompetency of master ((uito nnfoiin(le<l, 5234—5. Successful after-life of <:(\v\s. 
 educated there, 5'2'Sd. Have heen llonian Catholic as well as Protestant pupils ; but have been 
 removed; iieo])le desire to have their children at the school, but are not ])ennitted by tho 
 lloinan Catholic priest ; opposition to Ronum Catholics attending, owing to the Scrijjtiires being 
 read ; ojijiosition to the school on this account, and withdrawal of children, 523.3-40. Boys' school 
 could holil forty, girls' lifty ; had those numbers formerly, before the opposition, 5238. 
 
 Salary of master only .£14 16s. ; formerly £24, 5201. 
 
 Course of instruction, English, arithmetic, geography, ifec, 5244-52, 5255-7. Girlij also taught 
 needlework and embroidery, 5253. 
 
 School visited and inspected twice a-ycar bv Church Education Society, 5242-3. Society's books 
 used, 5258-00 
 Shone, Rev. Hamud, Curate, Sligo : Evidence, as to endowment by Jlr. William Draper, G070-5 : (see 
 MwX&r S'igo) ; as to school in Knox-strcct, Sligo, stated to be endowed under Lord Lieutenant's 
 Fund, 0070 ; as to Lungy School, or Erasmus Smith School, originally the i)arocliial scho(d of St. 
 John's ])arisli, supported by voluntary subscriptions; then taken under Erasmus Smith Board, who 
 give salary of viiaster; now the Ersisnius Smith school; this salary the only contribution by 
 Governors out of Erasmus Smith estates for education in town of Sligo, 0681-4 : (see under Sligo ) 
 
 Evidence as to General State of Education and provision for same, in tho locality of Sligo, 
 0051 et srq. 
 
 Want of a good classical school for middle classes; would be fairly attended ; would have an 
 attendance of forty or fifty pupils, ivho would pay £4 or £5 a-year, 0G54-5, 0G58-G063. 
 
 Singing: see Mtmc, Choral Schools, &c. 
 
 Sisters of Charity: I o i i • »■ -.i 
 
 „. , •'. ,, '' I Schools in connection with : 
 Sisters oj Mtrcy: J 
 
 Limerick, Burhe ; and see under respective names of schools and localities. 
 
 Sites of schoolhouses ; see Buildings : Evidence of Mr. Barlow, see under Erasmus Smith Board. 
 
 Sk-ipton, Pitt, Esq., Secretary of the Gwyn Charitable Institution, a school in neighbourhood of Lon- 
 (londerry, endowed bv a iiiercliant named Gwyn, for boys, (see under LoHdund<:rr;/,) 11021 : evi- 
 dence of, as to Will and Act of r'arruiment in 1830, under which the Institution is estalilishcd and 
 conducted ; its nuiuagenunt, ifcc. ; boys boarded, clothed, educated, and generally apjjrenticed, 
 llQ'Si etseq. 
 
 Course of Education, English simply, to prepare them .as tradesmen and sailors ; industrial 
 occupation, tailoring, shoeiuaking, work in the garden and in keeping the house clean and orderly, 
 11040-50, 11063. 
 
 Museum attached to Institution, but not belonging to it ; instruction given in zoology and botany, 
 with beneficial results, 11057-02. 
 
 Good answering of boys on examination; eligibility as apprentices, 11080; and yet a feeling 
 against them, and its causes; no fee, which masters get in other cases, 11079; and apprehension 
 of interference of trustees, 11080. 
 
 Mode of selecting for apprenticeship, 11081-2, 110D5-G; after-couduct of appreutices, 11075- 
 80 ; visitation of apprentices quarterly, or half-j'carly if at a distance ; recorded in a book, and 
 apprentices appear every six months before the committee ; pttjmiums awarded on satisfactory 
 reports at termination of apprenticeship, 110S6-D1, 11090-7. 
 
 Shiiieen, Co. Kildare : 
 
 Charter School ; closed for many years ; house or buildings in possession of ^lanjuess of 
 Drogheda, 13883-4. 
 Sligo, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken at 
 Sligo, 6305 et seq. 
 
 Draper Endowment, 0070 it seq. 
 
 Erasmus Smith School, OGSl-4, 6766 et seq. : Erasmus Smith Western Estates, 6578 et seq. 
 
 Knox-street School ; Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 0070-80. 
 
 Lungy School, parish of St. John's ; Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 0081 et seq. 
 
 Ormsby Endowment, G0S5 etsrq. 
 
 Primrose Grange School, 0085, 6801-3. 
 
 General state of education and provision for same, 6577, 6584-6669, 6090-6765, 6777-6800. 
 
 DR.^PKU ENDOWMENT. 
 
 Endowment of .£18 a-year by William I>rapcr, reported by Select Committee of House of Com- 
 mons on Foundation Schools, as being then in operation, after suit instituted, 0071. 
 
 Evidence of Heo. Samuel Shone, Curate of Sligo ; — clergy and inhabitants not at all aware of any 
 such endowment for education ; is an endowment for rewarding female servants, 0070. Uncer- 
 tainty, in absence of will and particulars of suit referred to, 0071-5. 
 
 EK.^SMUS SMITH SCHOOL. 
 
 Evidenre of llev. Samutl Shone, Curate of Sligo : — Lungy School, originally the parochial school 
 of St. John's parish, supported by voluntary subscriptions ; then taken under Er.osmus Smith 
 Board, who give salary of master ; now the Erasmus Smith school; this .salary the only contribu- 
 tion by Governors out of Erasmus Smith estates for education in town of Sligo, 6081-4. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Edward Ward, master. — Salary, .£50, 6700. Description of education and 
 success of pupils. Number of scholars, 120; average, ninety-eight, 0700. No assistant master, 
 although average attendance above ninety, 0772-6. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Roman : — the master attends also a private classical school in the town; can give 
 but little time to the school, 6702-6,
 
 564 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Sliijii, Lunu'y or Erasnuis Sinitli School, — contimietl. 
 
 EoidcHce of Mr. O'Connnr : — Want of inspection of Erasmus Sinitli Scliool ; if well reijulatcd, 
 there would be no necessity for an interuieJiate school for better or higher classes, of which tiiere 
 is now a decideil need, 6732-S. 
 
 Ev'xdpnc of Rev. S. Slione, Cnratc : — luEfh character and cfficieney of the scliool, GG54 ef sc/. 
 ^Yaut of an assistant master and increased accommodation, GG(JS-9. 
 
 Referred to an Assistant Commissioner, G7G7. 
 
 KNOX-STEEET SCnOOL. 
 
 Endowment under Lonl Lieutenant's Fund, building and land ; no such school now; there is a 
 small school supported entirely by voluntary suliscription.', GG7G-8U. 
 
 LUKGY SCHOOL, PATIISII OF ST. JOHN's, UND£U LORD LIEUTENANT's FUND. 
 
 See above, under Urasmiis Smith School, Sligo. 
 
 ORMSBY ENDOWMENT : — PRIMROSE GRANGE SCHOOL; (uNDEK INCORPORATED SOCIETY.) 
 
 Evidence of Rev. James Gully : — £30 a- year charged upon property of Adam Ormsb^', Esip, for 
 support of charity boys of Sligo; in hands of Incorporated Society, who expend it on Prunrose 
 Grange School, GGSj-t). 
 
 Primrose Gr.ange School visited by Commissioners; examination of pupils, satisfactory; 
 efficiency of writing from dictation as a test of general instruction ; boys well taught also in agri- 
 cultural instruction, G801-3. 
 
 Further inquiry deferred for A.sslstant Commissioner's Report, G801. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. R. ArdiU, Secretary of Incorporated Society, 2327-5-0, 23290-iI : (see 
 Incorporated Society.) 
 
 WESTERN ESTATES OF ERASMUS SMITH BOARD. 
 
 Particulars of Estates from previous Reports, G578. 
 
 Evidence of Javie.< Kidd, Esq., merchant, Sligo; insuliiciencv of provision for education 
 in neighbourhood of Sligo, out of the large estates of Erasmus Smith ; funds sntHcient if pro- 
 perly used to establish a good school ; present Erasmus Smith School not sufficient for wants of the 
 town, 6.>7y-S0. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION AND WANT OF SUITABLE PROVISION FOR SAME IN NEIGHBOURHOOD. 
 
 Lettf.rfroin Right lion. John Wynne ; great want of a school in the neighbourhood for affording a 
 good English education to middle classes; jiarochial school supported by Erasmus Smith funds 
 affords excellent education for lower classes, but no ])rovision for clerks, land-stewards, and middle 
 classes not requiring classics, C-377. 
 
 Evidence of James Kidd, Esq , niercbant, Sligo, G5S1, et see^. 
 Evidence of Rev. Samuel Shone, cnratc, Sligo, GC51 et seq. 
 Evidence ef Travers Iloman, Esq., M.D., Sligo, G690 etseq. 
 Evidence of Peter O'Connor, Esq., merchant, Sligo, G712 etseq. 
 
 Evidence of Jau'es Tucher, Esq., M D., medical officer of dispensary, Sligo, G730 et seq. 
 Evilenc^ of IVilliam Clarke, Esq., land surveyor and v.aluator, G748 etseq. 
 Evidence of Mr. J'. M-En/Jf, master of a classical school, Sligo, 6777 et seq. 
 See under names of re.-'pective iviines.->es, &c. 
 Smith, Erasmus, Esq. : sec Erasiiini Smith. 
 
 Societies having schools in connection with them ; see under Governing Bodies, kv. 
 Somers, Mr. Thomns, master of Jackson Free School, Monaghan ; letter of complaint as to reduction 
 of his salary, 82 ( G ; evidence, 8282 et se/.. 8527 et seq., 850G et seq. "Other emoluments," derived 
 from paymcnt.s by Cluirch Education Society for "prolicient" pupils, not returned by master, 8527 
 et s'O. 
 
 Sum bequeathed for stationery for the school, 8280 ; paid to Uector, ami iiow apjilied ; boohs 
 and rcciuisites ol)tained from Church Eilucation Society's depository, 8331-!), S351-G. 
 
 Mixed .school, boys and girls, and of all religious doiominations ; a work-school for i;irls under 
 a mistress, 820 1-8307. Cour.se of instruction, English, an I Sci'iptures read every day by all, 8308-10. 
 
 Diminution of numbers; recent establishment of a Prcsbytorian school, 8294, 8340, 83(iG-80. 
 Sudden increase of numbers immediately before inspection and examination for fees, by Church 
 Education Society, 85.50-1, 8508-9. 
 
 As to fitness of witness to be schoolmaster; his previous experience in teaching; illiterate 
 composition of his letter; ignorance on examination, in .s])elling, in jri'iimmar, in punctuation 
 8276, 8357-81. x o o , i 
 
 llules and regnlaticms of the school changed since it was pliice.l under l.!hur(di Education Society; 
 but not strictly observed, ami many not attended to at all; particulars in which the rules are 
 
 neglected, and (h'parture from intention of the rules which are in operation, 8382-81 17. (See 
 
 further, under Monaghan.) 
 
 Somervil/e, Mr. James Can; master of St. Steidien's Hospital, or Jihie Coat School, at Cork, and Se- 
 cretary to the Trustees: Evidence of, as to state and mauagement of the institution, ]i'60 el seq., 
 15GI el seq. — (See under Cork.) 
 
 SouthiiieU,^ Edward, Esq.', Founder of Blue School, or Aleyn's liluc Schoid, Downpatrick : School under 
 I). S. Kerr, Esq., as patron : codicil to will of Mr. Southwell, under which it was founded, not lorth- 
 coming, 983G el seq. Particulars of endowment by,9841-8, 98G3-5, 988.3.— (See under Downpatrick.) 
 Spinning Schools : 
 
 Swords, Co. Dublin ; sec under Swords. 
 
 Bishop Pocockc's Weaving School; sec under Kilkeani/.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE, 665 
 
 Stafford, Archibald, Esq., Castloliai' ; Evidoiico of, as Id oinlowiiicnt fur an A^'ricultural School at 
 Kilcumiiion, Co. Mayo (see Kilcommon), G:.'21-4, 6229-3:^. 
 
 Star, Mrs. Mnrrinret Jane, matron of King Clias. II. '.9 Hospital, or Blue Coat Scliool, Oxmantown, 
 Dublin : — Evidence of, 22GC2-88, 2201)1-3: (see under Oxinanlowii.) 
 
 Steele, Rev. William, head master of the Raphoe Royal School, Co. Donegal; Evidence of, 11227 et seq. 
 Repulsive and ili.scouraging state of the buildings and school promi.ses on hi.s ajiiiointniont in 
 1854; roprcseiitation.s of its state by residents of the neighbourhood ; repair.? an<l iiuprovcinonts 
 effected by liiin.sflf, 11229-.')1 ; representation to Clare-strcct Board, who regretted it was impos- 
 sible for thcni to make a grant for ncces.sary repairs, 112.32-3; spent £420 himself; sum that 
 would be reijuircd to make repairs, &c., complete, £IJOO, 11237-9, 11273-7. 
 
 Number of pupils and free scholars, terms for boarders, itc, 11234-5, 11240, 1124G-53. 
 
 Church of England, Pre.sbytcriaus, and Roman Catholics, 11241 ; no objection to free pupils on 
 religious groundii, 11243. 
 
 Course of in.struction, a comi>lote education in English, classics, and mathematics; also French, 
 German, drawing, and fortiFic:ition.s, 1123G; religious discipline, 11244-6. 
 
 Combined system of classical atnl coinmercial education, and modern languages; difficuUies of 
 carrying on in same school; how managed, 11278-94. 
 
 Would desire to give in.struction in natural philosophy and natural history as a recreation 
 11335-8. General culture of mind and accpiisition of variety of information afibrded by an extended 
 course of education, most useful, 11339-42; study of logic and ethics, 1139G-404. 
 
 As to estaldi.-^hing one uniform system of education in schools throughout the country, 11355-G4 ; 
 mixture of English and Irish masters, and assimilation to English system, 113C5-G. 
 
 No inspection or visitation of school, nor reports, 11271-2 ; desirableness of a .sysleni of inspec- 
 tion and examinations; its efl'ects, 11343-7, 11352-4. 
 
 Want of exhibitions in connexion with the school ; as to importance and effects of exhibitions 
 in regard to pupils an.l masters ; best mode of establishing them, and relation of University course 
 to them, 1 1309-32 ; defects in college entrance course ; comparison with English system, 11367-95. 
 
 Rewards given by master for diligence and good conduct; how regulated, 11348—31. 
 
 Maps and other scliool requisites provided by master, 11333 ; philosophical instruments, 11334. 
 
 No fund for a school-library for the bo3''s, who use his own library; advantages of access for 
 boys to a library, and of wliat description, 11295-308. 
 
 StepliCHstown, Co. Louth : 
 
 Endowment under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 12232, 12235. 
 
 School not known ; letters of inquiry returned, 12232. 
 
 Letter from Rev. M. Kieran, p.p., as to school formerly established by Mr. Fortescue, at Stephens- 
 town, in parish of Louth, 12232. 
 
 Letter from Rev. P. Banan, p.p., Louth ; annual voluntary sub.scriptions alone; formerly four 
 endowed schools suj)ported by the late rector. Rev. Elias Thackeray ; closed, havino- no scholars 
 to attend, 12233. 
 
 Letter from Rev. Marcus Rainsford, vicar of Dundalk, 12234. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Somersrt L. C. Tuwnsend, incumbent of Louth ; Schoolhouso at present 
 
 inhabited by a farmer as part of his dwelling-house, 12333. 
 
 Evidence of liev. John II. AUpress, formerly curate of Louth ; relating to Stephenstowu School, 
 Co. Louth, endowed under the Lord Lieutenant's Fund, but since closed, 12237-45. School in 
 active operation in 1828 : closed before he left the parish in 1840 ; opened again after 1840 ; schools 
 built by joint suliscription of a former incumbent, Rev. Elias Thackeray, and the landlord, Mr. 
 Matthew Fortescue, the latter giving the land, and a sum granted from Lord Lieutenant's Fund; 
 
 they also paying the master, till the scholars so diminished that the school was closed, 12239. An 
 
 agent of .Mr. Fortescue took possession as caretaker, and living in it, 12239, 12243. Major 
 Fortescue iu the Crimea, 1224G. 
 
 Stewart, Henry, Esq., agent of the Earl of Erne ; Evidence of, as to Lifford Grammar School, Co. 
 Donegal, mil et seq., 11417 et set/. Lord Erne inherited the Hansard Estates and pays the 
 schoolmaster and schoolmistress; repairs, ikc, 11111 et ssq., 11415, 11417 et seq.: (see under 
 Biford.) No great want of schools in the town and neighI)ourhood ; other schools near, 11436-41. 
 
 Evidence of, in reference to boys and girls school at Ballindrate, iu parish of Clonleiirh, Co. 
 Donegal, mentioned as if endowed by Lord Erne, 11104 : no endowment or trust for the school ; 
 how trustees came to be spoken of; Lord Erne voluntarily gives a salary, schoolhouse entirely bis 
 property, 11103, 11105-10. 
 
 Stoch, Rev. Samuel, Vicar of union of Castleconnor, Trustee of school at Frankfort, Killglass, Co. 
 Sligo, endowed by Rev. Dr. Valentine, 6322-5: Evidence of; terms of bequest iu will, for a 
 Protestant Charity School and apprenticing some of the boys ; erection of schoolhouse from accu- 
 mulation of endowment, G331-41. F<!w apprentices, 6342-3, 6545-8. Inspection by cler-rvman • 
 school not in connection with any society, C34S-9, 6360. Numbers of pupils in the school and 
 auxiliary schools at Larcamore and Ardvally iu difl'erent years, 6544 et seq. — (See Eillc/lass.) 
 
 Stokes, Mr. Edward, formerly an assistant in Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork : Evidence as to 
 attendance of master and assistant.^, and as to irregularities amongst the boys and laxity of discip- 
 line in the school; and as to his own previous statements in 1854 at the visitation, 18040 et seq. 
 
 (See Midleton.) 
 
 Vol. II. 4 D
 
 566 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Stoney, Thomas B., Esq., High Sheriff of Co. Tipperary : Coiniminieation from, as to Incorporated 
 
 Society's Estates, 66-1-6. Evidence relating to the Incorporated Society in Dublin, for promoting 
 
 Protestant Schools in Ireland; complaints against them, Idl 07 et snq. — See under Incorporated 
 
 Societij. 
 
 Stoney, Rer. William B., Rector of Castlehar, Co. Mayo : — Evidence of, as to schools at Castlehar, &.C. 
 
 Classical School or grammar school, Castlebar ; no trace of it now, 6077. 
 
 Parocliinl .School, Castlcliar : built partly out of Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; no proof of endow- 
 ment out of that fund, or of its conditions having been complied with ; nothing known of leases 
 or sites; supported by voluntary contributions, 6107-8-10. 
 
 Protestant Charter Scltool, Castlebar : endowment not in operation, G075-7. 
 
 Hollymount, County Mayo : — Inquiries respecting endowment by Mrs. Ladovize, supposed to be 
 for education, 60S4-8. 
 
 Kilcommon Agricultural School, County Mayo, G225-8, 
 
 Turlovgh, County Mayo : — School endowed in connection with Lord Lieutenant's Fund, and on 
 similar conditions as Kildare-place Society, 6083 : in operation, 6107. Built partly out of Lord 
 Lieutenant's Fund : no proof of endowment out of that fund, or of its conditions having been com- 
 plied with; knows nothing of leases or sites; supported by voluntary contributions, 6107-8-10. 
 
 General State of Education in Castlebar and Keifjhboiirliood. — Evidence of Rev. W. B. Stoney, 
 Rector, 6115 et seq. 6268 et seq., 6298 et seq. 
 
 State of education very low imleed, 6113. No classical schools, 6115 : some National schools, 
 6117. Children wanting superior or classical education are sent to Dublin or distant 
 places, or dependent on private tutors, 6116-21, 6123, 6125. A good many respectable persons 
 desiring a superior education for their children, 6122 : would send them to a good school in the 
 neighbourhood, 0126. Frequent complaints of want of such a school, 6124. As to objection of 
 tetter classes to have their children mix in same school with those of the humbler classes, if the 
 latter do not pay, 6127-8. Oljjection diminished if there were free places open to merit on com- 
 petition, 6129. Desire of lowest orders for instruction of highest order, if obtainable gratuitously, 
 6130-5; but desire for education at very low ebb, 6135: attendance at schools irregular; causes of 
 irregularity, 6130-40. No agricultuv.il instruction; no manufacture or employment other than 
 agriculture, 6141-S. 
 
 A good school would be a very great benefit, something in the shape of a miniature of the 
 Queen's Colleges, 6268-6284 ; a classical and commercial school, 6273, Pupils would attend if the 
 payment was small, 6285-6 ; from 10s. to 15^. a quarter, 6269, 6273, 6282. 
 
 The endowment to be confined to the payment of the masters, and to gener.ally promoting the 
 school, together with a Government inspection, especially of the books, 6288-89. 
 
 No building in the locality suitable for a schoolhouse ; expense and risk of erecting one, 
 6275-80. Classical and other masters who have endeavoured to establish themselves have failed, 
 owing to depressed state of the country for the last ten years, 6282-83. 
 
 There is a school in the town for the daughters of the middle class, but there is a deficiency of 
 such instruction as would quality them to hold the situation of schoolmistress, 6298-6304. 
 
 Streane, Rev. Louis II., late Archdeacon of Elphin, one of the trustees of Bishop Hodson's endow- 
 ment -.—Letter from : bequest in no way connected with the diocesan school, though its master 
 received it, and its objects different, 7226 : (see Elphin). 
 
 Striich, Andrew Russell, Esq., Barrister-at-Law, Ciiairman of Town Commissioners, Longford : — 
 Evidence of, as to general state of education and want of adequate provision for same in Longford, 
 7699 et seq., 7743 etscq. 
 
 Want of a good educational establishment for the middle classes, 7700. As to prospects of success 
 of a good commercial and classical school united, 7709. Parents of boys would be willing to pay 
 from four to eight guineas a-year ; knows several persons in the town who would willingly pay 
 twelve guineas a-ycar to a good classical and mercantile scIkjoI, 7711 : other schools to which boys 
 are at present sent, 7712-29. No good school for Roman Catbolics ; a strong objection to mixed 
 education ; thinks there should be a Protestant scho(d and a Catholic school, 770G, 7730, 7733. 
 If the iiead master was a Ronuiu Catholic, the second master a Protestant, and the third master a 
 Presbyterian, and the clergy of each denomination had access to the school to give religious instruc- 
 tion, assisted by tlie parents, such a school ought to be successful, but not prepared to say it would, 
 7736 : — (see evidence of Mr. Euxton). 
 
 A strong feeling of objection to the school being in connection with the Queen's University: lias 
 no doubt that acliild educated at tlic proposed school would be as well fitted for Trinity College or 
 for the Catholic University as for the Queen's Colleges, 7740, 7718 ; or for any public office, 7750. 
 
 Stubhs, Rev. John William, f.t.c.d., Jlember of Committees of Incorporateil Society in Dublin for 
 promoting English Protestant Schools in Ireland : — -Evidence of, 20052 H .irq., 20709 et seq., 
 21020 et seq., 2:i-22\., 23230-1, 23413; .and communication from, as to Evidence of Rev. E. S. 
 Abbott, 23215 : — See under Incorporated Society. 
 
 Studdert, Rev. George, Catechist of Incorporated Society's School, Dundalk, Co. Louth ; Evidence of; 
 was not aware of tiie flogging described by master, i see under y.'Knt/a//), wliicli \w shoulii disa])- 
 prove, 12372-7. Steps taken in regard to lavatory and other accommodation ; has frequently 
 reported it to tiie Board, b{it without reply, 12378-93. Rccommondationa or suggestions of Local 
 Committee transjnittcd to Society, 12402-5. 
 
 System of examination for admission to the institution works well; how conducted, 12293. 
 Many applications for v;u;ant places in school ; many boys from the school in employments, and 
 good accounts of them generally, 12393-7.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 567 
 
 Studdcrl, Launcdiii, E.-q. ; Eviilencc of, as to Borou,L,'li Scliool of Sword.-i, Co. Dublin : examination of 
 boys by, nio.st satisfactory to his mind, 10141-2, lClo5, 1G192-5. Mode of examination, and 
 furtlior ovidonco on the subject, 1G143 et seq., 16192-5. Difference between re.'sult of Couiniissiouers' 
 examination and his, 1G144, 10153, IGIGO at seq. — (See Swords Borough School.) 
 
 Slurrjan, District of Camlough, parish of Killevy, Co. Armagh : 
 
 Infnrmalion from iirtviuits J'cporU : house and land ; sources of support ; Erasmus Smith grants, 
 9315-G. 
 
 Letters from iicv.J. Chamuey, oliiciatiiig curate of Camlough, with returns of attendance at 
 Sturgan School, formerly under Erasmus Smith Board, whose aid was withdrawn in 1850, and 
 school closed ; rc'j^uesls inquiry ; correspondence with Ilcv. Mr. Chaniney, 9314, 9325-7. 
 
 Evidence of liev. William Maclean, rector of Tynan, formerly ofliciating in neighbourhood of 
 Sturgan schoid ; school one of the least effective under Erasmus Smith Board, when closed ; built 
 by that board, but funds diminishing, least eilectivc schools were closed, the best being kept up, 
 9316-23,9328-30; might be ilesirable now tore-open it, 9331. 
 
 Mr. Lcwcrs, late Kchonlmastcr, still in po.ssession of the schoolhouse, but no school kept, 9317 ; 
 .site conveyed in perpetuity forscliool, 9332. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Bwhw, Chairman, .ic. of Erasmus Smith Board, 23059-65 ; of Kev. Mr. 
 Hamilton, Registrar and Inspector, 24233-6 ; (see under Erasmus Srnilh.) 
 
 Sullivan, William K., Esq., (a distinguished scholar of the Christian Brothers' School, Cork), Professor 
 of Chemistry to the Museum of Irish ludnstry, 1355, 14833 ; Paper by liini and Tristram Kennedy, 
 Esq., M.P., on the Industrial Training Institutions of Belgium, and on the possibility of organizing 
 an analogous system in connection with the National schools of Ireland, 14833. 
 
 Superannuations : see Pensions. 
 Superintendence or 
 
 Sujiei-vision of schools : — see Inspection, Clergy, Laymen. 
 
 As to central boards or bodies over schools generally ; see under Governing Bodies. 
 
 As to local committees or governors over particular schools ; see under Governing Bodies. 
 Surveys and Valuation of estates : see under Estates. 
 
 SlVOl'ds, Co. Dublin : 
 
 Borough School of Swords, 13088, 14018-822, 14828-980, 1-5005-546, 155G1-1G195, 1G242- 
 423. 
 
 Dean Scardovllle and Archdeacon Ilewitson's endowments for a Protestant school 14943-6 
 I49S1-15004, 15547-60, 1G196-241. 
 
 Economy fund ; 11947-5S, 14989. 
 
 BOKOUGII SCHOOL OF SWORDS. 
 
 Foundation of school at Swords, under Act 40 Geo. III., c. 34, and appointment of trustees as 
 governors of the school 14018. 
 
 Sum of £15,000 invested in trust for maintenance of one or more schools in borough for 
 instruction of inhabitants' children, in reading, writing, and arithmetic, and in manufactures ; and 
 one meal a day to be given to them at ^-choolhouse : surplus, to go in apprenticing the children ; 
 and any further surplus, in premiums for encouragement of agriculture and manufacture or other- 
 wise, 14019. Interest which had accrued, to be applied in obtaining ground for site, building or 
 providing proper school accommodation, 1 4020. 
 
 Charter in 1804 for carr3'ing into eflect these objects, 14021-2. 
 
 A dispensary and coal-yard attached, and supported out of the funds ; medicine gratis, coals at 
 reduced price, to parents of school children, and to other indigent inhabitants, 14023. 
 
 Numbers of pnpilsat various periods, and of different religious denominations ; income, salaries, 
 and other e.\pe;iditure, officers and general management of the school, dispensary, and coal fund ; 
 amount of medical and coal relief, 14023-27. 
 
 A free school, and without restriction; but a regulation made in 1821 that no child should be 
 received without a certificate from vicar, parish priest, or magistrate, that parents had been resident 
 three years ; regulations evaded ; altered, and five j'ears' residence required, 14025. 
 
 Apprentice fee ; numbers of boys and girls apprenticed, 14025 : complaint of non-residents being 
 admitted and apprenticed, to prejudice of inhabitants, 14025. 
 
 Brcsent Inquiry : — Return of charter ai^ above, 14028. 
 
 Rules and regulations of the school, revised 6th January, 1847 ; visitation and examination, 
 weekly and quarterly : apprenticing, for best answerers, fee £15, and clothing in some cases ; ten 
 years' residence of parents before admission and apprenticing ; children of servants and policemen : 
 dispensary; coals, &Q,., 1402S-9. 
 
 New regulation in 1855, adopting that of the National schools, relating to religious instruction ; 
 and apprentice fees increased to £20, &c., 14034. 
 
 Sources and amounts of income : salaries of principal master or superintendeut, assistant masters, 
 mistress, and assistants; number of pupils, average 234 in 1852; in 1853, 175; iu 1854, fifty- 
 three, 14030. 
 
 Complaints of management of the school, of its being so conducted as to preclude Roman Catho- 
 lics from attending it, proselytism, A-c, 14030 et seq. 
 
 Josiah Foster, Esq., twenty-two years a resident in Swords : Letter from, referring to memorials 
 from Roman Catholic inhabitants representing necessity of reforming the system of management, by 
 which the Roman Catholics have been obliged to disconiinueatteudance of their children at the school. 
 Vol. II. " 4 D 2
 
 568 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Swords, Borougli School — continued. 
 
 14030 : — Evidence to same effect, 14035 et seq., 15500-3 : Roman Catholic inhaliitants, at instance 
 of their clerg-y, failing in the object of tlic memorials, have withdrawn their cliildroti and erected 
 new. schools, 14039,14043 : wished to obtain a Eonian Catholic master and mistress, and to discontinue 
 the Protestant version of the Scriptures as a class book, 1403S ; not satisfied with the regulation 
 recently adopted by the governors, 14047-9; would have Roman Catholic master and mistress, 
 and times allotted for separate religious instruction of Protestants and Roman Catholics, 14043, 
 14051-4 : a Roman Catholic teacher required in eacli room ; funds sulficient to provide for 
 mixed education of all classes ; would not add to the expense to have master or teachers Catholic, 
 14040, 14043, 14050-1. Further evidence on the subject, and as to communication with Arch- 
 bishop of Dublin and Roman Catholic Archbishop, Dr. Murray, and others as to the management of 
 the school, 10319-22, 1G414-6. 
 
 Letters from Most Rev. ArchbiJiop Murraij to Mr. Forstcr, 10320-1, jxige 302. 
 
 Mr. Forster produces boys to prove the system of flogging in the scliool, 15500-2. 
 
 Persons to whom coals were refused for refusing to send their children to the school, 15503. 
 
 Rev. Thomas Kiernan, Roman Catholic Curate : — Letter from, complaining of misapplication of 
 
 funds of borough school to proselytizing purposes, and refusal of coals to parents of children with- 
 drawn by Roman Catholic clergy; memorial to Archbishop of Dublin, by inhabitants, resj)ecting 
 grievances, 14031 : — Evidence to same efl'ect, and written statement as to rights of Pioman Catholics 
 in respect of this endowment; Archbishop of Dulilin and board of governors replied to memorial 
 that they had no power to interfere with the arrangements complained of. Parliament being the 
 only resource to whicli to apply for the alteration desired; arguments of witness, 14050-01. 
 
 Memorial to governors, in 1842, above referred to, set forth, 14001-2 : — Letters from the chap- 
 lain and secretary of the Archbishop in reference to this memorial, and correspondence on the 
 subject, 14003-7. 
 
 Further memorial to governors in 1848 from inhabitants ; funds intended for moral and religious 
 education without distinction of creeds ; objection to reading of the Scriptures as a class book ; request 
 substitution of National Board Extracts ; should be Ptoman Catholic master and mistress ; apprentice 
 fees and number of apprentices, 14073. 
 
 Complaints at various times; obligation on children to learn Protestant catechism, 14080-3; 
 withdrawal of Roman Catholic children in 1839 or 1840 and in 1853, 14084-91: and a school 
 carried on in Roman Catholic chapel, 14094-103. 
 
 Alteration of rules by governors, 10th October, 1855, in regard to religious instruction ; adoption 
 of regulation similar to that of National Schools, 14034, 14077, 14079. 
 
 Resolutions of a meeting of Roman Catholic inhabitants on 21st October, 1855, objecting to 
 the new regulation, and demanding a separate and proportionate share of the endowment, 14093. 
 
 Evidence of Riv. James Sheridan, Roman Catholic Curate : — Since withdrawal of children from Bo- 
 rough School, in 1853, the Roman Catholic chajiel used for a girls school, and a bo3's school adjoining 
 in the town, the latter under National Board, 14104-10, 14114. No proposition from the Borough 
 School Governors to provide for education of the children who had been withdrawn ; no aid from them 
 or for boys school from National Board ; dependent altogether on voluntary support of the people, 
 14111-0. Average, about 150 girls so educated ; importance of education for them and improve- 
 ment in morals and conduct since withdrawal from borough school, 14118-22. 
 
 Charles Patrick Rainsford, Esq., Lieutenant, HP., 67th Foot, resident at Swords thirty-five years : 
 Letter from, 14032 : Evidence of, 14123 : written statement read relative to the endowment, 
 management, and sysstem of education in borough school, containing oVijections on the part of the 
 Roman Catholics, who form the bulk of the ])opulation, to the system of management and education 
 pursued, 14124. Numerous memorials and petitions written by hiin, 14125. Charges against 
 governors and superintendent, and grounds on which made, and by whom, 14128-09. 
 
 Resolutions of governors in 1848, ordered to be published, directing the superintendent to act 
 impartially, recognising no distinction of religious persuasion, 14127. 
 
 Mr. Bryan Joseph Shiel, master of National School, Swords, for twentj'-threc years : — Letter 
 from, complaining of a system of proselytism in Borough School and injustice to Roman Catholics, 
 14033 : Eviilcnce to same cii'ect, 14198-204. Written statement read, describes steps taken by 
 liim in reference to grounds of com[)laint in regard to instruction and distribution of coals, medicine, 
 apprentice fees, <fec., and warning of dismissal received from the Archbisiio]), 14200. 
 
 Evidence of Patrick E. Boivden. Esq. : hands in mcmori.al from the inliabitants of Swords to the 
 governors, relating to the Borough School of Swords, and correspondence thereon with the Arch- 
 bishoj) of Dublin, relating to suggested removal of the Scriptures as a class-book for the Roman 
 Catholic chil.lren, 10349-10350. 
 
 Proportion of Roman Catholics to Protestants in Swords; nine-tenths stated to be Roman 
 Catholics, 10417-10423. 
 
 Eoidenceof John Ijan-hss, formerly a ])upil in Swords Borough School, 14170 : a Roman Catholic; 
 Protestant Scriptures introduced in the scliool, was compelled to read them and qucslioned in them 
 by Rev. Mr. Ormsby, curate, then sujicrintcndent of tho schoid ; questions on the Gos]icls out 
 of a book by tho latter, 14170-83, 15073-4. Was at the scliool four years ; never objected, nor 
 his parent", to the religious instruction or examination, 14184-97. 
 
 Evidence of James Carey, formerly a pupil for about three years; obliged to read the Scriptures 
 twice a-day; never objected, 14189-97. 
 
 Mr. Bryson, second master, used to la.sh the boys with a whip if they missed a question, 141 9G. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. WiUhm ICennnh/, Incumbent of St. Dolongh'.s, deputy superintendent of borough 
 school since .January in 1S54, 14205 el s<q., 14505-0, 14828 ea-e./., 15911 et seq., 10187-91, 10299- 
 309, 10323-5, 10333-7, 10347, 10301-412. His duties as deputy. superintendent, 14210-9, 14415
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 569 
 
 Swords, Borough Scliool — continued. 
 
 Visit;ition of scliool and exuinination of pupils ; visits and examines once a fortni!,dit, and general 
 examination and preniiunis tlirce times a-ycar, not in accordunce with regulations, which prescribe 
 weekly and quaiterly examinations, 142:i()-32. Mode and nature of examination in .Scripture; 
 ijucstions puri'ly liistdrical : llev. W. Ormsby's catechism authorized, but not used by him ; books 
 generally those of National Board, but not exclusively ; authorized version of the Bilde used ; no 
 doctrinal expositions of ])assages from Scripture; authority for use of the ^crijitures ami catechism in 
 the scho(d, U240-79, 14838-49. 
 
 Number of masters two, and their emoluments; average number of bovs, 17; ]iaid monitors 
 discontinued, in couse'jucnce of diminution ef numbers, 14263-9(5. 
 
 Industrial education in manufactures or otherwise, none in boys school; needlework in girls 
 school, 142S0-G. 
 
 As to encouragement of agriculture and manufactures; formerly a subseriptidu to Fingal Agricul- 
 tural Society, 14377-81 : and formerly a large Sjiinning School established, 1G303. 
 
 Infant school get a piece of brea<l in school daily ; no food or meal for rest of school, 1435G-9. 
 
 Coal funds anil distribution ; management, and regulations of same ; without regard to religious 
 distinctions; the rule generally, that persons receiving aid in coals should be jiarents of children 
 in school ; fallin;; oti' in number since withdrawal of Roman Catholics; proportion of Protestants 
 and Roman Catirolies, 14297-328, 14382-S. 
 
 DLspensary relief to inhabitants generally without regard to religion of applicants, 14351-5. 
 
 Apprenticing; numbers apprenticed, diminished from ten to four annually, and fees increased, 
 143G3-74. 
 
 Funds : cajiital increased from .£1.5,000 to .£24,.jOO by accumulation of interest, 143G0-2. 
 
 Accounts and books kept by Mr. Kennedy ; audited by Dean of St. Patrick's as treasurer, half- 
 yearly, 1434G-50; enumeration of books and accounts kept, 14389-414. Accounts of receipts and 
 expenditure under different heads, IGOOG et Sfq. 
 
 Complaints as to misapplication of funds to emigration and to purchase of lands and houses; 
 statement of circumstances in cases referred to, 14477-9G. 
 
 Rules of the school and their publication, 14329-45, 14034. 
 
 Success in afterlife of pupils, 14375-G. 
 
 Superintendent not resident at Swords ; resides at three miles distance ; non-residence never 
 complained of, 14420-30. Leave of absence and illness; absent from the .school for six weeks; 
 religious instruction attended to by master, who is not a clergyman, and by curate of Swords, 
 14442-55. 
 
 Visitation of school by the local governor, w-ho is vicar of Swords ; no other visitation by 
 governors, 14431-41. 
 
 Quarterly meetings of governors, 14459-G7. Complaints or memorials received by him invaria- 
 bly laid before them, 144G8-7G. 
 
 Does not ascribe the withdrawal of the Pioni.an Catholic children solely to the reading of the 
 Scriptures in school ; believes it was that the Roman Catholics have not themselves the disposal of 
 a portion of the funds, 14496-501, 14093. Reference to memorials on the subject, 14502-31. Pro- 
 duces them, and minutes of the governors, 14823-37. Further evidence on this subject and as to cor- 
 respondence which took yJace thereon, 1G323-5, 1G333-7, 1C3G1 et seq. : as to proceedings and 
 opinions of governors and public notice of 10th October, 1855, as to religious instruction, appren- 
 tice fees, etc., mode of acting upon the existing reirnlation as to religious instruction, ifcc., 15911- 
 1C005 : examinations for apprentice fees, 15950, 15990 et seq. 
 
 Further evidence as to supply of coals and medical relief; and legal opinions as to application 
 of funds to those purposes, 16299-309. 
 
 Night school, formerly largely attended ; no attendance since withdrawal of children from day 
 school ; master receives i'lO for evening school for doing nothing, 16079-82, 1G08S-9 : was very 
 benefici.al, and such schools would be beneficial in every town ; no exclusion of adults ; no 
 restriction as to age of persons attending, 1G090-5 : similar schools elsewhere. Ballymena even- 
 ing schools for males and females, 1G096-102. 
 
 As to alleged want of copy books, and instruction in writing, book-keeping, itc, 16105-14. 
 
 Evidence ofJfr. Thomas MoffM, master of Swords Borough School, 14532-758, 14S14-G. In 1818, 
 on his appointment, 120 or 130 boys and as many girls ; now 17 bo3's, all Protestants, 14532-8. 
 Salary and en\oluments, 14559-66. 
 Boys admitted on recommendation from vicar, curate, or deputy-superintendent, 14555. 
 
 Course of instruction, includes some grammar, geography, and geometry to one boy. 14556-S. 
 School hours ten to three, 14567-9. Division of duties between himself and assistant master : the 
 latter takes the most advanced boys, the master the ten youngest; unsatisfactory answering on 
 examination in easy ([uestions ; not examined by master for more than a year ; no copy-books 
 producible; defective superintendence by master; proceeds of sale of old copy-books applied to 
 master's use, not in purchase of pencils or school requisites, 14570-638. 
 
 Inspection and examination of boys, by superintendent ; by vicar or local governor occasionally; 
 by curate weekly ; does not know the nature or extent of examination ; present, but does not hear 
 it, being engaged with the boys, 14539-54. 
 
 Relisrious instruction by master and assistant, 14G39-47 : as to use of Jlr. Ormsby's catechism, 
 14641-7. 
 
 Books in use, those of Natiimal Board, 14G48-6G. 
 
 A lending library, formerly under his charge, but books lost and injured, and charge transferred 
 to one of the female teachers ; books lent to inhabitants who apply for tbem, and policemen, as 
 well as boys and girls of school, 14667-701.
 
 570 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Swords, Borough Scliool — continued. 
 
 Piinisbraents : slapping on tlie hand with a cane ; no stripping ; have been flogged on the hack ; 
 Lave been stripped; punishments not reported; dnsatisfactory evidence of witness, 14702-58, 
 15533-7. 
 
 Evidence of James Caret/, a pupil in the school three or four years ago : often punished ; once 
 floL'ged by Mr. Moli'ett, the master ; often beaten by Jlr. Bryson, assistant master, with a cutting- 
 whip, and with little whips with rod handles, 14763-4 ; horse-whip, 14765 : for not having his 
 lessons prcj)ared, or for staying out too long in play-ground or yard ; not for lying, swearing, 
 improper language, or stealing; never punished for any of these, 14766-74 : once stripped and put 
 on a boy's back and flogged with whip-cord by master, Mr. MofiVtt, in presence of the schoolboys, 
 14775-9 ; has seen others flogged in same manner, and has held them up himself; was a monitor 
 over a class, and the master made the monitors hold up the boys to be flogged, 14775-85 : instances 
 cases of flogging by master, Mr. Mofl'ett, and in his presence, 14786-808. None flogged in 
 presence of superintendent or governor; more silence in school when they were present, 14809-13. 
 
 Evidence of Hon. nnd Be-v. Francis Howard, vicar of Swords, one of the governors of the school, 
 14850-3. Visitation of school by bim more frequent in former years ; since alteration of rules 
 between 1845 and 1850 has felt he had not the same authority in the school as previously, but has 
 visited ; has no peculiar power or responsibility diflerent from that of other governors, 14853-75, 
 148tf9-91. Visitation by Archbishop of Dublin once, by Dean of St. Patrick's once, by Lord 
 Chancellor never, 14876-88. Use of Ormsby's catechism authorized by board, 14959-63. 
 
 Employment of girls in needlework by schoolmistress, who vpas, he believed, authorized to 
 receive remuneration furtheir work, paying them for any extra time bej'ond school hours ; but not 
 aware of any minute of tbe board on the subject ; practice of taking in needle-work for payment, 
 since 1847 discontinued, 14892-910. 
 
 Medical officer of the establishment, wlio is medical officer for poor law jiurposes also ; arrange- 
 ments regarding his remuneration, duties, and issue of orders for medical relief, 14912-43. 
 
 As to memorials and complaints by Uoman Catholics of conduct of the school and religious 
 instruction in it ; rather from the Catholic clergy than the parents, 14964-80. 
 
 Punishments in the school ; was aware of the master occasionally flogging boys ; no official 
 reports of punishments ; on one occasion himself told the master to flog a boy who very much 
 deserved the punishment, 15005- 1 6 : gave no general authority to master to flog ; further evidence 
 as to punishments and conduct of master in regard to same, 15017-55 ; rules requiring him to 
 report certain grave oflfences to superintendent, for him to take proceedings thereon, 15025. 
 
 As to master selling the old copy-books for his own profit, 15056-69. 
 
 Evidence of Lewis Bri/son, second master in Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, husband of 
 head mistress (see below, Evidence oi Eliza Dryson), 15584-25, 15636-73. 
 
 Flogging of boys in the school ; has seen a slight whip of twine ; never saw a boy stripiped or 
 with trowsers down, nor big boys, 15588-90, 15618-25. Nature of oft'enccs for which puuisliment 
 administered, and by whom and whose authority, 15600-17. Number of boys diminished of late, 
 15594. Proportion of Protestant boys, 15595-9. 
 
 Further examination in reference to punishment of boys in the school, and particulars in which 
 his evidence is contradicted by boys examined and at variance with that of master, 15636-72. 
 (see below, Evidence of Edward Delahoyd, Joseph Murphy.) 
 
 Evidence of Mrs. Eliza Bryson, head mistress of Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin, wife of 
 second master (see above, Evidence of Lewis Bryson), 15071-15348, 15364-76, 15409-15431, 
 15446-8, 15497-9. 
 
 Branches of instruction in the school ; hours, ten to three ; their appropriation to diff'erent 
 branches, including two hours for work, 15075-84 : sometimes remains, with some of the 
 children, in school, after hours, perhaps for two hours more, 15085-90 : sometimes in tlie 
 evening, in school or in her apartments, at work, 15091-100 ; they have never been in the school- 
 room till nine o'clock, 15101. Children do plain-work out of the school hours, for the mistress, and 
 sometimes for the school, 15103-3; work in the school-room furnished by the Board; liours for 
 needlework, 15104-7, 15109-10. Children formerly received some jwyment for work, but 
 since 1853 none, 15108. Not paid for the work done in the evening for the mistres.s, wlio 
 received the profits of the work, 15111-14 ; no permission or authority from l)oard to get the 
 work done for herself; and superintendent not aware of it, did not ask his permission, 15115-18. 
 This system discontinued fur the last two years, since the Roman Catholic children were withdrawn ; 
 since August, 1853, not employed more than the two hours a-day in school, 151 19-29. Could not tell 
 amount of profit made ])reviou3ly, kept no account; made nothing at all by them, 15130-3. 
 Got an average of ten hours' work from the girls every day, but no profit from it ; received five 
 six, anil s(!ven shillings a dozen for shirts and other articles made for neighbouring gentry and 
 Dublin tradesmen (15207-10), on which the girls were employed in learning to work, but which 
 were finished by a woin;iii in the town whom she paid, 15134-53. If finisher had done aH the 
 work, would have had to pay her more, 15155. Could not tell the n.ime of the finisher, 15158 : 
 afterwards, Name and Address, Ellen Carter, Swords, alivo and residing there (sec Carte}'), 
 15159-61. Oavo iier4.!. outof the 5t. a dozen ; but the other Is. not profit ; would say ])rofit was 
 8rf. a dozen, on six dozen a week during the year: could not tell whose work that profit arose 
 upon, but not on that of the girls, who, however, prepared the work for the finisher, but not always ; 
 had been said that when it was the work of the girls, it was her ]>rolit, but she does not know; 
 never found any profit come oat of it, 15163-76. Is a daughter of the master, Mr. Moli'ett; her 
 mother was in the habit of keeping the girls working for her, for seven years, daily, from four to 
 eight in the evening, cannot say till ten or nine, does not reincniber that at all ; working for herself 
 after her mother's death, 15197-15304. Any benefit from tho gills' work was derived by her, 
 15214 ; but "lavc all the profits to the poor girls, 15335-6. The girls were all jiaid by her at that 
 time for their work, 15314-6 : could not give the names of any girls paid by her, nor one name; 
 could not tell iiow much she paid them, nor at what rate, kept no account, 15317-24. Examination 
 contiuued, 15225 ci seq.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 571 
 
 Swords, Borongli School — continued. 
 
 Further examination as to abuses in eniployin^f the girls to work for her; and particulars in 
 which her eviilencc i.s contradicted hy girls employed, 15304-70, 1.5409-.'31, 1.544G-8, 15497-9 
 (see Mvidence of 'j bis hereunder, and of Miss Kate (hirl'is, assistant schoolmistress.) 
 
 Evidence of Marii Walsh, formerly a school girl : worked after school hours at needlework, in the 
 school ; not paid, 15249-GO. 
 
 Eoidrnce of Kate Walsh, fornierlya schoolgirl ; worked afterschool hours ; after dinner, returned 
 to Mrs. Bryson's place on school premises, and worked from half-past four till nine at night and 
 sometimes ten ; every evening for about two years, except Sundays, holidays, and a few evenings 
 when she refused to go to sew, 15201-79, 15290 : desired to go to work, by Mrs. Lr^'son, who for 
 refusing, thre.atcne<l to " prevent her of her fee," 15280-2, 15284-0, 15292-5 ; used to get tea in 
 the evening, 15283 ; uever any payment, 15272 : on occasions of refusal, did not like to go, as she 
 would not have her lessons off quite well, and would not go to work when she would bo learning 
 them, 15284 : di<l not complain, being afraid and not liking to ofi'end her, 15287-92. A good 
 many sewing for Mrs. Bryson, though not many stopping so late ; no paj'nient ; a little present of 
 a tie, worth A.d. or od., 15313-9. 
 
 A Roman Catholic, nature of religious instruction and examination, in Protestant Testament and 
 Mr. Ormsby's catechism, &c., 15297-312 : did not like to learn it till she heard about tlie fee, and 
 thou got it off, as the only way to get her fee, 15303-4. 
 
 Evidence of A ime M'Goicaii, {oimerly a school girl; schoolmistress made her monitor, to have 
 her sewing ; sewing for her before and after school hours, went at seven or half-past seven in 
 the morning and stayed till nine or ten at night ; not let home after school hours ; Mrs. Bryson 
 gave her dinner ; not a farthing of p.aymcnt, 15320-0 : never refused to go, but said she was losing 
 her learning, 15327-39 ; induced to give so much time to needlework by being put as monitor and 
 told she would get 10s. a quarter ; paid for one quarter, afterwards got 3s., in all 13y. as monitor ; 
 got not a farthing for her needlework, 15340-7. Continued afterwards to work, by order of Mrs. 
 Bryson, and fearing to offend her, 15348-55. Seven girls so employed, besides three kept 
 constantly, 1535G-'i3. 
 
 Mrs. Bryson and Anne M'Gowan confronted, and their evidence being contradictory, Mrs. 
 Bryson could not say she did so employ the girls and " does not remember it at all," 15364-6. 
 
 Evidtnoe of Ellen Collins, formerly a school girl, to similar effect as to work exacted without pay; 
 coffee oflered in the evening to keep them awake, 15377 ei seq. 
 
 Evidence of Mrs. Bryson in reference to that of Ellen Collins, 15469 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Eliza Ekins, formerly a school girl, as to work after hours without pay, 15434 
 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of Catherine Little to same effect, 15471 et seq. 
 
 Mrs. Bryson <loes not contradict these witnesses, 15446-S, 15497-9. 
 
 Evidence of Miss Kate Curtis, assistant schoolmistress, 15449 etseeq. : the girls have often worked 
 .after hours, 15456, 15460 ; leaving after dark, 15465-70. 
 
 Evidence of George Walsh, labourer, as to refusal of coals unless he would send his children to the 
 school, after he had received coals for eighteen years, 15504-15, 15538-^6. 
 
 Evidence of Ednxird Delahoyd, formerly a boy in school, as to flogging; floijged for not beinffit 
 to go up from fifth to fourth class, and for missing a word in his class ; not for stealinff bad lan- 
 guage, or lying, 15516-32 : flogged with trowsers off, the assistant master, Bryson, present and 
 laughing, 15626-31. 
 
 Evidence of Francis Doyle, as to refusal of coals unless he brought back to the school the boy 
 he had taken from it, 15561-3. 
 
 Evidence of Joseph Murphy, formerly a schoolboy ; beaten by the master, Mr. Moffett, on the feet 
 and head for not having off" Scripture History : on bare feet, with taws or whips of four lashes of 
 whipcord with four knots on each lash ; other boys flogged also, sometimes with taws, sometimes 
 with cane, often stripped, 15564-83. 
 
 Present when Delahoyd was flogged : Mr. Bryson present ; all the school saw ; boys stripped ; 
 school looking on and laughing, 15632-5. 
 
 Thomas Moffett, master, in reference to evidence of Delahoyd, considers he gave no unnecessary 
 punishment ; if he swore he never flogged a boy it was a mistake, 15533-7. 
 
 Louis Bryson, assistant master, as to flogging in his presence, 15636-72. 
 
 Evidence of BfV. WilliamGilbertOrmshy, formerly superintendent of borough school, 15673-834, 
 15906-10, 10268-98, 16.326-32, 16338-48, 16357-60. 
 
 As to duties of the local governor, 15678-87. 
 
 As to duties of the superintendent, 15673-7, 15088-90. Changes recommended by him, for im- 
 proved management of school ; printed regulations introduced and adopted ; course of instruction 
 extended, 15691-712. Scriptural instruction, and feelings of Roman Catholics on the subject; 
 memorials and proceedings thereon, 15714-64, 15821-4, 10326-32, 16338-48, 16357-60. Minutes 
 in 1855 of the Board of Coveruors, 15765-72 : terms and intention of the charter, in reference to 
 Scriptural instruction. &c., 15773-83, 15803-7, 10277-85. 
 
 As to teaching manufactures, or agriculture, 15783-0, 15799-802, 16269. 
 
 As to givine; a meal a-day to all the children, a piece of bread being given to the infant school 
 only, 15783-98, 10274-7. 
 
 As to medical relief afforded in connection with the school, 15808-20, 16286-92. 
 
 As to coal fund and distribution, 16270-1, 16293-8.
 
 572 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COJDIISSIOX. 
 
 Swoi-ds, Borough Scliool — continued. 
 
 As to unfitness of master; and flo,2:u;ing, 15825-34. 
 
 As to emplnvnicnt of girls by tlie scboolniistrcss in working for herself after school hours and at 
 night, 1590U-iO. 
 
 Suggestions as to improvement of tlic school and its management, and carrying out of the 
 Charter, 1G269 et seq. 
 
 Evidence nf Mr. John Corr, as to the instruction of his children at the school, who were after- 
 wards withdrawn ; received apiirentice fees for two, 1 Go 10-8. 
 
 Evidence of liev. JoJin Cotter Ai'Donnell, formerly superintendent of Swords hcjrough school, 
 15S35-905. " 
 
 Resided within four miles of Swords ; visited generallv twice a-week, more and less, 15837-9. 
 Examination of jiupils, 1-5840-2. 
 
 Extent and nature of religious instruction, 15S42-3 ; no complaints in his time, 15871-5. 
 
 As to discipline of school ; flogging of bo3'S ; working of girls ; selling of used copy-books by 
 master, 15844-G.3, 15893-903. 
 
 Assistant mistress. Miss Curtis, had charge of head class ; better qualified than head mistress, 
 Mrs. Bryson, 1586G-70. 
 
 As to distribution of ciials, 15875-81. 
 
 As to medical relief and school dispensary ; physician of it is also medical officer of poor law 
 district di.~pensnry, 15882-93. 
 
 As to heads of expenditure in his time, none for manufactures or agricidture ; unsuccessful 
 attempt to introduce industrial instruction, 15904-5. 
 
 Kcldence of Rev. Iliirih Hamilton : examination of girls by, during several years, and its results; 
 considers there was a progressive improvement, especially under the assistant schoolmistress, Miss 
 Curtis, 1G115-23 : favourable result of examination of this clafss by Commissioners, 1G124-5. 
 Good answerinir on his examination of the boys, and gradual progressive improvement in school, 
 16126-39. 
 
 Evidence of Launcelot Studdert, Esq.; examination of boys by, most satisfactory to his mind, 
 1G141-2, 16155, 1G192-5. Mode of examination, and further evidence on the subject, 1G143 et seq., 
 1G192-5. Ditfereuce betweenresult of Commissioners' examination and his, 1G144, 16153, 16160 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of llicliard .John O'Gradi/, m.d.. Physician of the institution, and Medical Oflicer of 
 dispensary under Poor Law Board, 16242-67 : has made no annual reports to Governors of the 
 school as required by the rules, nor returns of numbers relieved, 16244-7. 
 
 Has received no tickets or rccomraendatious of late ; attends master and mistress, and persons 
 in the school who apply, 1 6252-61. Salary .£70 a-year ; numbers relieved, 16265-7; 
 
 DE.AN SCAKDEVII.LE AND ARCHDEACON IIEWITSON's ENDOWMENTS FOR A PROTESTANT SCiroOL. 
 
 Information from Reports of Previous Inquiries, S)-c. : — Bequest by Dean Soardeville, described as 
 for support of a school ; and legal proceedings for recovery of same commenced, but abandoned, 
 14983. 
 
 Lands, i^c, <lescribed as given by Archdeacon Ilewitson for endowment of a school, use and 
 support of schoolmaster, etc., 14983, 15547. 
 
 Presiiit Inquiry. — Extract from will of Dean Scardeville ; contingent bequest of £100 to 
 be laid out in buying a piece of ground, the rent of which to be for endowment of school of Swords 
 for teaching poor Protestant children, 14982, 15547. 
 
 Evidence and Letter of Hon.and Rep. Francis I/oward, Vicar of Swords, and one of the Governors of 
 Swords Biirougl! School; knows nothing of Dean Scardeville's charity ; has heard it spoken of; 
 never heard of Dean Scardeville's school ; was told a legacy was left for Swords by the Dean ; 
 does not lielieve Dean Scardeville's charity exists, or that any such scliool was ever founded, 
 14943-6, 14985-8. Knows nothing at all of the Howitson lands, 15550-1 : (see further, below, 
 under Econumj Fund ) 
 
 Letter from Rev. Thomas Kieran, Pionian Catholic Curate, Malahidc, on the part of I! >: Jfr. 
 ]IIonta</ue : not aware of any school in Swords endowed l)y Dean Scardeville; bequest by him, and 
 purchase of Economy Lands (see below), 14989. 
 
 ECONOMY fund; AND HEWITSON ENDOWMENT, JlC. 
 
 Informatiiin from Report (in 1833) of Municipal Corporation Commissioners; — Economy Lands, 
 applied to church jjurposcs ; no account of origin, 14984. 
 
 Letter fi-om Rev. Thos. Kieran, Roman Catholic Curate, Malahide, on the ]iartof 7iVii. Mr. Montague; 
 as to bequest of moneys by Dean Scardeville for Protestants in Sword.s, and jmrchase of Economy 
 Lanils therewith, rents of which are stated to bo distributed to poor I'rotesiants of Swords, 14989. 
 
 Evidi-nce nf Hon. and Rev. Francis Howard, Vicar of Sword.s, one of the Governors of Swords 
 borough scliool : — Ec<moiny Fuud not connected with Dean Scardeville's charity, 14945 ; objects 
 to wliicli the Fund is applied, the snp])ort of the church ainl providing necessaries for it, and 
 Burphis for charity; no portion for education, 14917-8, 14952. Landed property; not aware 
 Iiow parish became po.sscsscd of it; Irish Act of Parliament under which administered, 14949-58. 
 
 Further evidence of Mr. Howard to .same eficct, and reference to the Act alluded to ; no know- 
 ledge of the origin or objects of tiie I'uud beyond that atl'orded by the Act of Parliament, 14990- 
 15004. Report made by him in 1851 to Commissioners of Charitalilc ]3equests, 14997-15000. 
 
 Provisions of the Act in question, 37 Geo. HI. c. 44, "for the Preservation of Estates belonging 
 to Parijlies ;" leasing powers and .accounts, 15547-8. As to application of these provisions to 
 Archdeacon Hewitson's bequest of lands and buildings for a school and schoolmaster, 15549.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 573 
 
 Swords, Economy Fund, Ilcwitson EmlduiiKiit — continued. 
 
 Evidoiico of Mr. Howard: — Know.-? notliinf,' of tlio Ilcwitson lands at al', has licard of Dean 
 Scanlevilk-'s bequest, but knows notliing of Archdeacon llcwitsou's ; two pieces of ground, not 
 aware wluit jiiirt Ilewit.son'.s, 15550-2. 
 
 Particulars of the Economy lands, Icttings, Ac, 15553-00. 
 
 Evidi'ncc of Mr. Jamfs M'Chridi/, twenty-four years resident in Swords, and churchwarden at 
 different times, 16190-201. Docs not know of any bequest by Dean Scardeville for a school at 
 Swords ; has seen m.a]is and ))apers relative to the Economy Estate, which is understood to be a 
 church estate, and exclusively Protestant charity; never knew of any one being educated out of 
 it, or of its applicability to education, 10202-C. There had formerly been a Protestant school 
 supported out of Economy Estate before present school of Swords, 10207-9 : could show lands 
 w-hich have been diverted and misappropriated ; previous inquiries on the subject by a local Coni- 
 niitteo put an end to, 16201)-12, 10224 ; ])urchase of lauds out of Dean Scardcville's be([ucst, now 
 part of Economy lands ; refusal to sign accounts presented to him while churchwarden by vicar 
 and other trustees, 10213-5, 10222-3T 
 
 Knows nothing of legacy of Archdeacon Ilcwitson, 10210-7: as to hinds on which the mill 
 stands; changes of owners and want of title, 10219. 
 
 Income and further particulars of Economy lands and their management, itc, 16212, 16220, 
 16225 ciseq. 
 
 Documentary evidence, produced by Mr. MoJ'efl, Farkh Clerk of Piev. Mr. Howard, by his 
 direction, 19743-0, 19754, 19761. — Grant or conveyance of lands and niill,itc., at Swords in 1719, 
 by llev. Michael Ilcwitson, for the use of the .school at Swords, 19743. Map in 1727, of the 
 Economy Lands, belonging tn the church of Swords, and lands left by Archdeacon Ilcwitson for 
 endowment of the school of Swords ; ])artici:lars of school lands and of church lands, 19744. 
 Survey and map in 1797 of Economy Lands, referring to "school lauds;" former and present 
 occupancy of them ; and parties receiving rent.s, 19745. 
 
 Lease in 1814 (produced by Mr. Ciiffe), of land described in map; identity of premises with 
 those in previous survey nuip, 19922-0, 20314-0. 
 
 Leases of 1814 and 1S54 from the vicar to Mr. Thomas Lowndes, produced by the latter ; parti- 
 culars of leases, 19769-70, 19790. 
 
 Old vestrj'-boolv of Swords, anno 1730; absence of any entries in this and other accounts of 
 Economy funds, produced bv Mr. Mofl'ett, parish clerk, of application of any part of the funds to 
 educational purposes, 19740", 19701, 19763, 19790. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Thomas Lowndes, resident at Swords, holding land and house property under 
 the vicar; by lease, 19704-8 : hands in leases of 1810 and 1854 ; particulars of same, 19709-70, 
 19796. Identity of plot with a plot in map of 1797 of ''school lands," above mentioned, 19771-3. 
 Further particulars as to tenancies of the property, rent, and to whom paid, &c., 19774-90. 
 
 Evidnce of Mr. TafrirJc Earli/, resident at Swords, holding land, 19860-913, 20047-05 : holds 
 plot, three and a-half acres, No. 3 in map of 1797 of school lands, 19802-3 ; mill premises at back 
 of his, 19864 ; never paid any rent, 19805 : particulars of holdings of his father and brother, and 
 as to payment of rent by them ; his father's will, litigation in the fiimily, ejectment proceedings 
 by his brother, 19806 etseq. : as to houses built by his father, &c., 19867,20047-65. 
 
 Evidence of Jlfr. Peter Citrei/, resident at Swords, holding land beside the mill, 19914 c/sfi/.; does 
 not pay rent, 19919 : particulars of jiroperty and of his and previous tenure by Peter Early 
 and others, 19920-49. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Bohert M'Kcrnnn, holding land at Swords, 19950-8 : his holding identified 
 with plot No. 6 in map of 1797 of school lands, 19950. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Lawrence Citfe, formerly resident at Swords, 19990-20019, 20314-6 : holds land 
 at Swords ; identifies it with land No. 4 in map of 1797 of school lands, and in earlier map, 19999- 
 20002; further particulars of tenure, rent, &c., 20003-19; produces lease and map attached ; 
 identity of i)reniises with "school lands," 20314-0. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. James Brangan, resident at Swor<ls, holding laud under tlie vicar and others ; 
 particulars of tenancies, rent, kc, 19797-859, 20021-46, 2C094-6. Identity of premises with 
 those clescribed in map of 1797, above mentioned, as "part of school lands," 19840-1, 19859 : 
 identity of other promises, held by otherparties, Peter Early, &c., 20024, 20039-44, 20094-6. 
 
 Evidence of James Peebles, E.<q., 19959-95: as to purchase of land at Swords by him, as he 
 believed in fee-simple, and rents received by him from James Brangan and others; title-deeds and 
 leases, 19959 etseq.: never heard of Archdeacon Hewitson's land before tliis inquiry, 19903: 
 identifies mill premises on map, 199S3-4 : is perfectly satisfied the .school lands are not named, 
 but does not think it prudent to part with his title-deeds or produce them, 19990-4. 
 
 Evidence <fMr. Thomas Moffell, parish clerk of Swords, 20066-79 : receives rent from Mr. Thomas 
 Lowndes for Hon. and Rev. Mr. Howard, who considers it as part of bis own glebe, not for any 
 particular or charitable purposes, 20067-74. Never heard of interest of Mr. Piiilips or Lord 
 Talbot in lands, 20U76 et seq. 
 
 Evidence of llenrij Baler, Esq., present churchwarden of Swords, 20080-93, 20097 : has heard 
 reports of school lauds being lost by mismanagement or neglect, 200S1-2 : endeavoured to obtain 
 information, but no disposition on part of rector and others to afford it; steps taken in reference 
 to the matter, but without result, 20082 el scq.: is satisfied from the evidence now taken, that the 
 .reports of misappropriation are correct, 20097. 
 
 Evidence <f Rev. Die/ges La Touche, curate of Swords, 20098-109 : knows nothing but what has 
 appeared in the evidence, as to school Lands, 20099 : has had no information from the rector, 
 Hon. and Piev. Mr. Howard, as to lands left for education, but has heard that the Economy Lands 
 were left for purposes of charity, not education, by Dean Scardeville, 20102-3. 
 Vol. II. , 4 E
 
 574 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Swords, Economy Lands, He-witson Endowment — continued. 
 
 Hon. and Rev. II r. Howard, absent in Enj^land and too ill to attend the second or further 
 inquiry, 19747-8 : letter to him, 19757, 19762. 
 
 Evidence of William Crozier, Esq., present Churchwarden : has no knowledge and is unable to 
 give any information about the lands loft by Archdeacon Hewitson ; never heard of them till the 
 last few days, 19750 et seq. 
 Synod of Thurles, 1850; Address of, parje 380; and three Rescripts on Queen's Colleges, 1847-50, 
 
 pages .388-9. 
 Talhot, Henry William, Esq., Maryborough, Queen's Co., Proprietor and Editor of the Leintter 
 E.vpi-ess; Evidence of, as to general state of education in locality, 5193 et seq. 
 
 Means of education in the county very indifferent indeed : great want of a classical and mathe- 
 matical school, suited for young men for ordinary pursuits of life ; no means at present of preparing 
 for ordinary professions, "mercantile life, or public offices ; want of such a school, a commercial 
 school with classics and modern languages, in Maryborough ; obliged to take his family to Dublin 
 for education ; a public school at Maryborough would be well supported ; sufficient of respectable 
 population, especially of middle classes, 5196-5204, 5207-9. 
 
 Ballyroan School in too isolated a locality, not as efficient for its object as if placed at Mary- 
 borough, would be improved and benefited if removed thither, 5205-6. 
 
 No want of schools for lower classes ; but great want of schools for middle and upper classes, who 
 object to send their children to the former ; the lower classes have better means of education, 
 5210-1. 
 
 Advantages of an endowment in aid, in preference to a school dependent on private enterprise 
 alone, 5212-5222. 
 
 Could not be provided for from local funds ; would not tax the inhabitants of the locality, 
 5223-4. 
 Tarhert, Co. Limerick : 
 
 Evidence of Henry OShea, Esq., Mayor of Limerick ; statement that funds are supplied from 
 Erasmus Smith foundation in Limerick, for a school at, 2397. 
 Tate, William; Endowment by, for a school at Wexford, see Wexford. 
 ^'oj; for education: see Eate. 
 
 Teachers and School Assistants : see Masters, Monitors, and under names of particular schools. 
 Teer, Mr. Thomas, master of Downpatrick Blue School ; Evidence of, 10089 et seq. Previous training 
 of, in Kildare-place, and experience in teaching, 10089-96. 
 Course of instruction in Downpatrick Blue School, 10105-7. 
 
 Ignorance and defective instruction of the boys ; unwillingness of the master to have them 
 examined; unsatisfactory answering on examination by the Commissioners, 10110 et seq., 10148- 
 54, 10181. 
 
 School not in.spected, except occasionally by clergyman, Mr. Moffatt, and no examination by 
 him, 10159, 10162 7. 
 
 Further evidence, as to number at school and incorrectness of return thereof, as to his unsatis- 
 factory conduct of the school, his emoluments, &c., 10168-213. — (See under Downpatrick.) 
 Templemichael, Co. Longford : 
 
 Erasmus Smith school, 7493 et seq.: and 
 
 Essex Edgeworth endowment, now connected with it, 7567 et seq. 
 
 ESSEX EDGEWOKTII ENDOWMENT. 
 
 Information from Reports of Previous Inquiries. — Bequest of .£10 a,-yearby Eev. Mr. Edgeworth, 
 formerly rector of parish, for a Protestant school at Templemichael ; applied to Erasmus Smith 
 school : acre of glebe land also for use of schoolmaster ; large stone schoolhousc, slated, built 
 by rector (afterwards Bishop of Waterford) and parish, and afterwards purchased by Erasmus 
 Smith Board, 7567. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH 8CE00L, TEMPLEMICHAEL. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. John William Fetherstoii, master of the school : parish school under Erasmua 
 Smith Board, 7493-7, 7558. Sources of income, 7559-66 : acre of ground held by schoolmaster, 
 but interfered with by Drainage Commissioners, 7554-7, 7571-3. 
 
 Number of pupils, forty-two on roll at ])resent ; past year, sixty-eight; regular attendance from 
 thirty upwards ; one boarder ; forty free pajjils in 1854, in turns ; all Protestants ; aver.agc 
 attendance in 1854, of all classes, twenty-nine, although sixty-eight on school-list, 7498-510; 
 numbers variable from numbers of soldiers' children, the place being a garrison town, and changes 
 of quarters of these and others, 7507, 7511. 
 
 Discrepancies in different returns of numbers, and explanations, 7512-53. 
 
 Erasmus Sniitli Board notawarc that he takes boarders; makes no return of them, none being 
 asked for ; no regulation as to them, left to himself, 7540 -4. 
 
 Schoolhousc repaired ijy Earl of Longford, 7568 : no money for repairs received from Erasmus 
 Smith Board, 7574. 
 
 Books, (fee, from Church Education Society ; none supplied by Erasmus Smith Board ; sujiply 
 of school requisites inadequate, 7575-8. 
 
 Emdeiice of Rev. Robert Card, curate of the parish ; has been in habit of visiting tlio school for 
 four or five years, 7579-81. Extent of visitation and examination of pui>ils ; beneficial effects of 
 supervision by local clergy, 7600-15, 7633-4. Inspection by Church Education Society and 
 Erasmus Smith Board, 7616-8. 
 
 Schoolhousc repaired three years ago, at cost of £80 or .£90, by Earl of Longford, 7582-4, 7599. 
 In very bad repair at present, flooring anil stairs insecure ; no funds for repairs, 7586-8. Bad 
 state of play-ground, dirty, and walls dilapidated, 7596-9.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 575 
 
 Templemichad, Co. Lonyfonl — continued. 
 
 School purchased by Erasmus Sinitli Board, but no contribution by them except master's salary, 
 
 7589-91. 
 
 School requisites obtained from Church Education Society ; supply inadequate, and not the 
 best books, 7D91-0. 
 
 Prizesforgoodattcndanceandconduct; noneforgoodanswenngandprogress,butdesirable,7619-23. 
 
 Ijciiclinir ]jil)i!iry, none; but one in connection with Sunday School, supported by voluntary sub- 
 scriptions, 7624-7. 
 
 Satisfactory answering on examination of boys by Commissioners, 761.5; and success in after- 
 life iu commercial and mercantile employments, 7628-31. 
 
 Uncertainty of information as to amount of Edgeworth Fund, and as to parties in whom vested, 
 7634-44. 
 
 Evidence nf Mr. Barlow, Chairman, S:c. of Erasmus Smith Board, (see under Erasmus Smith,) 
 23055 et seq. 
 
 Templemoi/le, Co. Derry; Farming school, and superior English education there, 11012. 
 
 Templeneiry (or Bansha), Co. Tipperary : 
 
 Letters from Kev. B. 11. Banner, Bansha, Rector and Vicar of Templeneiry, alias Bansha, relating 
 to endowment paid annually to Protestant schoolmaster of Bansha up to July, 1836, when it was 
 stopped, 635-6. 
 
 Endowment to parish school of Bansha, £4 a-year, from Smith's charity; no information, 654, 656. 
 
 Endowments by Rev. J. Doherty for schools at Templeneiry, Toem, and Doon, Co. Tipperary : 
 .£100 at i!4 per cent, bequeathed for additional stipend to parochial schoolmaster at each of tho.so 
 places: no trace of thcni now, 654-6. 
 
 Tenantry Schools, or schools for tenants on school estates : see Estate Sclwols, Estates. 
 
 Tenants on School Estates : 
 
 As to privileges of, on Erasmus Smith estates, in regard to admission to schools : Ennis, 
 Cullinan, 4068-71. 
 
 Application for free admission as boarder to Erasmus Smith schools on the ground of being a 
 tenant: (?a/iray, Barrett, 56S9. 
 
 Terms of Erasmus Smith Charter, see under Erasmus Smith: and see Estate Schools, &c. 
 
 Tenison, Bishop; school endowed by, at Kilkenny, 151. 
 
 Tenure of holdings on school estates : see under Estates. 
 
 Erasmus Smith estates ; uncertainty of tenants' tenure, and injurious effects: <ra?way, Barrett 
 5685-8, 5916-7, 6073-4; Blakeney," 6007-14; Daly, 5984-91 :— See under Estates, Erasmus 
 Smith Board, kc. 
 
 Clare-street Board's estates: see under Estates, Commissioners of Education, &c. 
 Incorporated Society's estates: see under Estates, Incorporated Society, &c. 
 
 Thow,, Alexander, Esq., Author of the Irish Directory, Printer for Her Majesty's Public Offices in Ire- 
 land, 23518-9 : Evidence of, as to general state of education and want oi adequate provision for 
 education of middle classes in Dublin, 23522 ct seq. Has in his employment a considerable num- 
 ber of jiersous, who must be pretty well educated to make good compositors; must have a good 
 English education, and should, but majority do not, know a little of Latin and French, 23521-4; 
 mostly educated at the ordinary schools of Dublin, of which they are mostly natives, 23526-7. 
 Has formed a very unfavourable opinion of the provision for the education of the middle classes in 
 Dublin, 23522. 
 
 The education of the young men from Scotland better than that of Irishmen, 23529. 
 
 Latin tau:;;ht in the schools in Scotland, in small fishing villages, in the parish schools, as well as 
 the High School of EdinburL'h, which educates for commercial life as well as the learned professions ; 
 and modern languages now taught in the latter, 23530-6. A proprietary school in Edinburgh 
 besides the High School, and caiTied out successfully, giving instruction in Latin as well as English, 
 23537-41. 
 
 As to establishment of a proprietary school in Dublin, like the Edinburgh schools ; difficulties in 
 the way, 23452-7. Suggestions on the subject, 23456-8. 
 
 Thorpe, Eustace, Esq., Assistant Registrar of Governors of Erasmus Smith Schools : Evidence of, 
 16434 et seq., 19062 et seq., 19567 e< seq., 19627-8,24085 et seq. See nvder Erasmus SmithBoard. 
 
 Thurles, Synod of, 1850, Address of, paje 380; and three Rescripts on the Queen's Colleges, 1847-50, 
 
 pages 388-9. 
 Tihullon, Co. Jlonaghan : EndowTiients for schools reported iu previous Inquiries : — Bequest of ^lUO 
 
 left at interest by Captain Richardson; interest to be divided between school and the poor, 9297. 
 
 Bequest of =£13 10s. a-year left by Rev. Wni. or Rev. Dr. Maxwell for Tihallon poor school ; 
 a good slated house, 9297. 
 
 No further information, 9298. 
 
 Tilson, Thomas, Mullingar : — Letter from as to Diocesan School, a school without scholars, page 302 ; 
 (see Midlingar.) 
 
 Tipperary, Co. of : Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 
 Cloumel, 654 et seq. 
 
 Statement by Mr. Magee, Newry, (see Armagh^ as to endowments, 9373. 
 Toem, Co. Tipperary : 
 
 Endowments by Rev. J. Doherty for schools at Doon, Templeneiry, and Toem, Co. Tipperary: — 
 ^100 at four per cent, bequeathed as additional stipends to parochial schoolmasters at these 
 Vol. II. 4 E 2
 
 576 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Toem, Co. Tipperary — coutimied. 
 
 places : no trace of them now, 654-6. Letters from Rev. B. H. Banner, Rector and Vicar of Tem- 
 pleneiry or BausLa, as to a payment to the schoolmaster there up to 1836, when it was stopped, 
 G55-6. 
 
 Toorns School, Louth : 
 
 Report (in 1826), of Commissioners of Education Inf^uiry; supposed endowment of Tooms 
 school, in parish of Louth, 12248. 
 
 Rer. John H. Allpress states it was emphatically the parish school, and supported by different 
 landed proprietors in the neighbourhood, 12249. 
 Townlet school endowment, in parish of Mohill, Co. Leitrim : see under Mohill. 
 
 Toionsend, Rev. Somerset L. C, Incumbent of Louth : Evidence of, as to Incorporated Society's School, 
 Dundalk ; objection to rule of admission, that the cliildrcn must come from a school in which every 
 child reads the Scriptures daily; militates against the National Schools, and hardship of excluding 
 Protestant children educated in those schools, 12349-51 : (see under Dundalk.) 
 As to school formerly at Clyde Farm, Co. Louth, 12247, 12250 : (see Glyde.) 
 
 As to Stephenstown School, Co. Louth; schoolhouse at present inhabited by a farmer as part of 
 Lis dwelling-house, 12333 : (see Stephenstown.) 
 Townsend, Rev. WUlktm E., Rector of Aghada, Co. Cork : communication from, 1141 : evidence of, 
 1143-6. Portion of glebe land granted in 1729, to Churchwardens for a Protestant schoolmaster 
 at Aghada, and so held until death of parish clerk in 1833 : unsuccessful legal proceedings for its 
 recovery; house since built by the parties holding it, who pay no rent or rent-charge, 1141. Still 
 thinks the land recoverable ; two houses and more than an acre ; oris;inal grant and evidence pro- 
 ducible, 1143-6. 
 
 Trades, itc, taught iu schools: — Londonderry, Gwyn Endowment, Skipton, 11046-54, 11063 : and see 
 Swords, Ticbrid, &c., and under Employment, Industrial Traininy, Agriculture, itc. 
 
 Training/ Schools : 
 
 Paper on the Industrial Training Institutions of Belgium, and on the possibility of organizing 
 an analogous system in connection with the National Schools of Ireland, by Tristram Kennedy, 
 Esq., M.P., and William K. Sullivan, Esq., Professor of Chemistry to the Museum of Irish Industry, 
 14823. 
 
 Evidence of Tristram Kennedy, Esq., M.P., in reference to inadequacy of provision for education 
 of middle classes, and industrial training of lower orders, 14824 et seq. 
 
 Training Schools for Teachers j see Santry, &c. — Industrial schools : see Agricultural, Industrial 
 Schools, (fee. 
 
 TraJee : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of education, Co. 
 Kerry, 22>l^' et seq. 
 
 Christian Brothers' School ; Macchivock endowment, 2329, 2347 et seq. 
 
 Erasmus Smith School, 2357 et seq. 
 
 Hickson Endowment, 2329, 2382 et seq. 
 
 Strand-street School, 2340 et seq. 
 
 CHRISTIAN brothers' SCHOOL ; FOR BOYS. 
 
 Letter from Eight Eev. Bishop Moriarty ; a few acres of land conveyed to him by Mr. John Mac- 
 chivock, of Tralee, in trust for support of teachers of this school, 2329. Similar grant for female 
 school in connexion with convent now building, 2329. 
 
 Evidence of Patrick Ihminick M'DonneU, Esq., Principal of Christian Brothers' School ; opened 
 in May, 1855; then a National school, with about 150 children ; now unconnected with National 
 Board, and about 420 boys in regular daily attendance under him.^elf and three assistants, 
 2347-51. Previously superficial education : present course includes English, commercial, and 
 mathematical education, with use of globes, mensuration, shorthand, book-keeping, 2350, 2353. 
 School too short a time established for the boys to be so advanced as desired ; pupils generally of 
 the poorer classes, but shopkeepers and middle classes also attend by degrees, 2352, 2354-6. 
 
 ERASMUS SMITH SCHOOL. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. Benjamin Carter, Master: — called parochial school, but not so, having no aid 
 from the parish, 2357-60. Schoolhouse built by subscription ; under the rector, not under con- 
 trol of Erasmus Smith Board, 2361-2. 
 
 Decrease of numbers in the school, and causes, 2363-5. Only Protestants at present ; formerly 
 some Roman Catliolics ; all admissible, 2366. 
 
 Other schools in Tralee, and means of classical instruction ; preference for education in Dublin and 
 England ; Las known boys educated at Tra,lee, as good or better scholars ; instances, 2367-81. 
 
 nrCKSON ENDOWMKNT. 
 
 Information from Frevious Inquiry: — An annual income of .£12 granted by will of Jolm C. 
 Hickson in 1821, for Roman Catholic Poor School, 2329. 
 
 Evidence of Eev. John Matve, Roman Catholic Administrator, twelve years connected with the 
 parish, never Iieard of the bequest ; property lately sold in lncumberc<l Estates Court, 2330-3, 2335. 
 
 Evidence of Maurice. CoWf'g, Esq., as to the property sold, and application of proceeds; none 
 remaining in court, 2382-92. 
 
 Evidence of Eiclcard O'Connell, Esq., as to sale of tLc property : no copy of tlio will, 2334, 2393-t>. 
 
 Will to be procured and reported to Bequests Commissioners, 2396. 
 
 STRAND-STREET SCHOOL. 
 
 Information from. Previous Inquir>/ : — In 1826, reported as a Roman CatLolic free scLool : school-
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 577 
 
 Tralcp, Co. Kerry — continued. ^ 
 
 lionse l)iiilt by Kildarc-place Society, wifli grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, and privitte sub- 
 scriptions ; boys and girls; thirty-six Protestants and sixteen Roman Catholics; in connection 
 with Kildarc-placc Society : both versions of the Scriptures read, 2.340, 2342. 
 
 Letti'r and Evkhnre. <,f llev. John Mawc, Roman Catholic Administrator; house built upon laml 
 granted for the purjioso by the late .Judge Day; no schoolmaster; only a schoolmistress educating 
 a very few female children, 2.340, 2343, 234C. 
 
 Trench, Rev. FirJcrick, Rector of Newtown, Me.atli : Evidence of, respecting Miss Kellett's bequest 
 for building schoolhouses in Co. Meath, 12860-2. 
 
 Procure<l copy of Miss Kellett's will from Charitable Bcijuests Commissioners : of .£3,000) 
 bequeathed in 1811 by her for b\nlding schoolhouses in Co. Meath, only £130 expended in that 
 county in building a National schoolhouse at Carlanstown : present executor never bcfoi-e .acquainted 
 with the matter, but has been supporting schools in Dublin out of the same fund for forty years, 
 but none applied to Meath except (he above £130 ; about £2,000 remaining, and now thinks it will 
 be right to withdraw the funds for the future from Dubliu, and employ them in Meath, according 
 to provisions of will, 12800-1. Mr. Trench wishes to know whether the remainder of the £3,000, 
 and interest for the forty years, could not bo recovered for Meath, 12861-2. 
 
 Trench, Rev. Frederick J., Rector of Garlow : — Evidence of, as to bequest by Mrs. Dawson, four 
 guineas a-year, for education in Co. Carlow ; can obtain no information respecting it ; (hinks it is 
 not applied to any school in the count3', 73-5. 
 
 As to " Carlow Free School," endowed by Matthew Murphy, Esq. ; never lieard of any school 
 endowed by him, 15. 
 
 Endowment by Mr. Henry Waddell, described in communication from Mr. Trem li, as a large 
 sum bequeathed for a parish school in Carlow, but not applied to the object of the will, 72. 
 
 As to school of Clonniulsk, Co. Carlow : — Existing parish school of Clonmulsk appears to have 
 an endowment, 75. 
 
 Trim, Co. Meath, and Longford ; Diocesan Schools formerly at, and sale of property, ^x'ys 301 : 
 see Gregory. 
 
 Trimble, William, Esq., Proprietor and JIanager of Fermanagh Rrporter : Evidence of, as to 
 Enniskillen Royal School, and general state of education in locality, 11911-11953. 
 
 Enniskillen has the worst educated population of any town in any civilized country ; character 
 of the county, bullock .and turnip ; grow up without learning or trade, and not knowing for 
 what; hence so many soldiers from Enniskillen: — Eminent classical education at Royal School, 
 but education there too exclusively classical, of little utility to men of business ; and charges for 
 boarders too high, from £30 to £50 and extras, notwithstanding largo endowment ; a general 
 complaint of the w.ant of provision for a practical English education, and embracing instruction 
 in modern languages, all the languages in use ; a good English education not to be had in Fer- 
 managh, except in .some of the poor schools. Condition of poor schoolmasters, and wretched school 
 accommodation ; difficulty attending attempts to establish a good sciiool, from apprehension of 
 injuring the Royal School, 11913. 
 
 Further evidence as to want of me.ans for a good English education, and as to the schools for 
 the poor in Enniskillen ; prevalence of fever in them from want of proper accommodation, 11913, 
 11917-20, 11923-5. 
 
 Other schools, and their degrees of success in teaching, 18941-51. 
 
 Observations as to Rev. J. G. Porter's suggestions (see Porter, J. G.) for the appointment of a, 
 Minister of Education : the prejudices of party men a barrier to education. The National Board 
 thwarted by another educational Board, 12205; injurious effects of contention between the Church 
 Education Society, and the National Bo.ard, 122206. 
 
 * ENNISKILLEN KOVA SCIIOOL. 
 
 Inconveniences of present situation of the school, at some distance from th.e town, at Portora, 
 especially for day boys ; formerly in the town ; old schoolhouse now let, and rent goes to the 
 Roy.al School, 11882, 11913-6 : suggestions for making the school more available for day bo}"s, so 
 long as retained at Portora, 11913, 11929-30 ; want of a good school, to replace the old school, 
 in tlie town, — a model school, male and female ; ways in which it would be beneficial, 11913. 
 
 General feeling that the day boys should be free, or a certain number to pay a small sum ; suggests 
 a local committee, to select boys for free places, 11913, 11921 ; and suggests that the local 
 exhibitions or foundation scholarships in Royal School should be increased in number ; a greater 
 number of smaller value, say £5, would be more advantageous ; would not alter the exhibitions 
 to Dublin University, 11913, 11926-8. 
 
 Number of free pupils at Royal School greater than heretofore, and master treats them as other 
 boys : but feeling against obtruding there under present arrangements, and free boys ill treated 
 by others, 11913,11929-30 (see evidence of Rev. Mr. Greham, head master, wider Fiiniskilhn.) 
 Further detail of description of education for which provision is required, and mode of selection 
 for free places, 11938-53. 
 
 Vacations too h)ng, nearly one-fourth of the year, 11913. 
 
 Visits of Education Commissioners private ; should be public visitations, announced beforehand ; 
 wholesomeuess of publicity, 11913. 
 
 School-lands the worst and the tenants the poorest and most wretched in the county, from some 
 cause not applicable to other landlords, who are excellent in B'ermanagh generally, 11913, 11931-7, 
 11952-3. — (See evidence as to School Estates, under Enniskillen.) 
 Trinity College, Dublin : 
 
 Erasmus Smith Endowments for, see under Erasmus Smith. See also E.rhibitions, Intermfdiate 
 Schools, itc. ; and under names of particular witnesses, schools, or foundations connected with.
 
 578 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Trusts : see Endowments, Estates, and under names of particular schools, localities, or foundations. 
 Tuam, Dean of. Very Rev. Robert Plunket ; see Tuam, Diocesan School. 
 Tnam, Co. Galway ; Diocesan School : 
 
 Letter from the Very Rev. Dean Plunket ; a diocesan schoolmaster at Tuam, paid by an annual 
 tax upon beneficed clergymen ; not the slightest advantage to them from him, but no power to 
 remove the grievance in present state of the law, 6063. 
 
 Particulars from a return as to the school, 6064. 
 
 Master does not reply to circular, nor attend upon summons, 6064, 6066. 
 
 Referred to Assistant Commissioner for inquiry, 6065. 
 Tuhrid, Co. Fermanagh : Charitable Charter School of George Vaughan, Esq. 
 
 Information from Ileivirts of Previous Inquiries: — Account of the endowment and its value; 
 estates bequeathed under conditions to produce £4,000 a-year ; to build a schoolhouse and school 
 sufficiently large for 300 boys and iOO girls, to be maintained, educated, and instructed in linen 
 manufacture and in husb.andry; a church to be built for use of the children; other bequests; legal 
 difficulties, and Act of Parliament to effect an arrangement ; trustees incorporated : opening of 
 school in 1787, with thirty children ; fed, clothed, and lodged, and taught reading, writing, 
 arithmetic, agriculture, and gardening : total income about £816 per annum ; forty boys in 1807-12 ; 
 expenses about £800 a-yoar, 12184. 
 
 Further information from subsequent reports, 12185-7: income reported in 1835, as from £900 
 to £1,000 a-3'ear; sixty boys and eighteen girls; general English education, and needlework for 
 the latter, 12186. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. John Grey Porter, formerly one of the Governors : — the school formerly small 
 and badly conducted; improvement during the last forty years, and increase of the school, 12189: 
 importance of close supervision by the Governors and local Committee, 12189, 12195-7. 
 Tuchei; James, Esq., M.D., Sligo: Medical officer of Sligo Dispensary District, late member of Town 
 Council : Evidence of, as to general state of education and want of adequate provision for same in 
 Sligo, 6739 it seq. 
 
 Great want of means of scientific education in the town ; agriculture, chemistry, &c., practical 
 education, great deficiency of it, 6740-1. Suggests the establishing of a school higher than a 
 Model National School, and embracing practical branches of education, such as agriculture and 
 chemistry, mathematics, as well as modern languages, 6742-4; is aware of young men being 
 obliged to go elsewhere for education of a superior class. Young men who go to College from 
 Sligo are educated elsewhere, and a young man lost a Government appointment ofl'ered to him, from 
 'deficient education, because there are no opportunities here, 6745-46. 
 
 Tullamore, King's Co. : Inquiry and evidence taken at, as to schools and endowments, and state of 
 education in King's Co., 5328 et seq. 
 
 Turin, parish of Rathconnell, Co. Westmeath : see Rathconnell. 
 Turlough, Co. Mayo : 
 
 Endowment for school, in connection with Lord Lieutenant's Fund, and on similar conditions as 
 Kildare-place Society, 6083. 
 
 Evidence of llrv. WilUam B. Stoney, Rector of Castlebar : school in operation, 6107. Built 
 partly out of Lord Lieutenant's Fund : no proof of endowment out of that fund, or of its conditions 
 having been complied with ; knows nothing of leases or sites; supported by voluntary contribu- 
 tions, 6107-8-10. 
 
 Turner, Mr. John, master of Incorporated Society's School at Dundalk, Co. Louth : — Evidence of, 
 12258 e-tscr/., 12406-8. 
 
 Number of scholars, including 42 foundation boarders, 12258-61. Foundation scholars selected 
 from Counties of Down and Lonth, parishes of Ready (Co. Armagh) and Ramoan (Co. Antrim), 
 upon public examination, 12262-4, 12337-8. Rules as to admission, 12307-8. 
 
 Religion of the cliiMrcn ; all received and treated as Protestants while in the institution, attend 
 church, and taught catechism ; one Roman Catholic boy, not recognized as such, and reads the 
 Scriptures, 12277-9, 12311-5. 
 
 General course of education comprising mathematics, and such as to qualify for commercial 
 employments, mensuration, &c. ; classics in after hours; navigation not taught, 12286, 12323-31. ' 
 
 Discipline of school : n.iturc of punishment.s, 12282 : in case of grave off"enccs, flogging some- 
 times, where not expulsion, 12285, 12288-304. 
 
 Prizes, admi.ssion to Santry Training School, to which three best answerers on examination are 
 sent annually, 12280-1 : and catcchist gives prizes in Scriptures every year, 12281. Comi>etition 
 for Santry confined to foundation boarders, day boj'S and pay boarders not admitted, 12316-7. 
 Those who go to Santry, distinguished for ability and good conduct, and get on remarkably well ; 
 the prospect of gcttingiiito Santry School a great stimulus to the boys, 12332-5. 
 
 Success in life of pupils generally .satisfactory, 12318-22, 12332. 
 
 In.spcction of school : — weekly by catcchist, who examines children ami the house ; and Gover- 
 nors insi)ect by deputation from the Society; reports of visitors and catcchist, and return of 
 numbers of boys, also sent up to them, 12267-77. Local Committee, 12299; their suggestions 
 transmitted to the Society, 12406-8. 
 
 Times and means of recreation for the hoys, 12339-40 : health, good ; a doctor and apothecaiy, 
 paid by fixed Kalarios, 12341-8. — (See further, unilcr Dundalk.) 
 Tydavnet, Co. Monaghan. 
 
 Two Hchools, not in operation ; one having a house and acre of land ; the other, four acres of 
 land and a house : no information as to these, 9303.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 579 
 
 Tyrone, Co. of: Inquiry as to sohools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken at 
 
 Omagb, 10556-7, 11452 et mq. 
 
 Kcprcscntatioii by a deputation from inhabitants of Omagli and nciglibourhood as to the general 
 
 state of cducatiou in tlic county, tlio non-application of funds for tlio county to the neigiiliourhood 
 
 of Omagh, and tlic serious want of facilities for education of middle and upper classes, 11452. — 
 
 See under Omagh. 
 Under-Masters ; see under J/asi«'s. 
 
 Universities: sec Qtieen's Colleges, Trinity College, and under Exkihitiom, Intei-mediate Schools, (fee. 
 Ushers : see under Erasmus Smith, Masters, Monitors, &c. 
 Vacations : 
 
 Objections to length of: Enniskillen Royal School, Trimble, 1191.3; Calway Erasmus Smith 
 
 English School, Reid, 5827-41, 5851. 
 
 Questions raised at Ennis as to Vacations in Erasmus Smith Grammar School; Cullinan, 
 4002-11 ; King, 4102-5, 4119-7 ; (see under Ennis). 
 
 Valentine, llev. T. : Endowment by, for a scliool at Frankfort, in parish of Killglass, Co. Sligo : see 
 
 Killglass. 
 Valuations of School Estates ; see under Estates. 
 
 Vandekur, George, Esq., .i.p.. Limerick, Chairman of Committee appointed by Grand Jury to inquire 
 into state of Limerick Diocesan School ; communication from, 2430. 
 
 Communication from Mr. Vandeleur, aud Mr. Delniege, j.p., as to Limerick Diocesan School, 2431 : 
 Evidence of, unfavourable to conduct of the school ; dissatisliiction prevailing ; and want of better 
 means of education at Limerick ; want of due provision for free pupils, 2G82 et seq. 
 
 Vaughan, George, Esq. : Charitable Charter School endowed by, at Tubrid, Co. Fermanagh, 12184 
 et seq : — see Tuhrid. 
 
 Veitch, Mr. Andrew, a holder of land : Evidence of, as to the estate of the Enniskillen Royal School, 
 12149-12183. Well acquainted with school estate ; saw a great improvement in it the last time 
 lie inspected it, in October, 1854, when he iuspected the whole of it; nature of the improvements 
 in houses, farms, drainage, crops, as compared with some years previously, 12149-58, 12182-3. 
 Some fences, but uot good ones, 12159-61. Crops : flax, potatoes, oats, turnips, 12164. Size of 
 farms, some under six acres, one of twenty ; premiums awarded to some of the tenants, 12165-74. 
 Rents; majority under £15; gross rental £2,142; sum received last year £1,941: £9,231 of 
 arrears, 12175-8. 
 
 Vesey, Rev. Thomas ; Endowment by, for schools at Magherafelt and Castledawson, Co. Londonderry, 
 10558-10572. — See Castledawson and Magherafelt. 
 
 Visitation of Schools : — (and see under Inspection). 
 
 Visitations held at various times for inquiry into complaints and abuses in particular schools, 
 and steps taken in consequence; Ballyroan, 4751-2, 4761 ; Navan, 4751, 12S70; Cavan, 7838, 
 7846-8, 8070-1; Lifford, 11409-10; Midleton, 17632 et seq., 17781, 18721-35 et seq., (see 
 
 Midleton) ; Monaghan, 8918, 9185 et seq , 9208-9 ; and see under names of particular schools. 
 
 Insufficiency, irregularity, and privacy of ; should be public and more frequent; Enniskillen, 
 Trimble, 11913 ; Midleton, Alliu, 17728-32 et seq., 18302-8, (see Midleton). 
 
 Mode of charging costs of visitations under Clare-street ; questions as to legality : evidence of 
 
 Dr. Kyle, Secretary of Commissioners, 23765 et seq., (see under Commissioners of Education). 
 
 Provision in Erasmus Smith Charter for Visitation of Schools, 3815 ; see under Erasmus Smith, 
 and under names of the respective schools. 
 
 Visitation or inspection of schools by local clergy and laymen ; see Inspection, kc. 
 
 Visitation of Estates ; see under Estates, Inspection, &c. 
 
 Waddell, Mr. Henry; endowment of a school at Carlow, by : see under Carloiu. 
 
 Waldrori, Jeffrey ; endowment for a poor orphan school, at Wicldow, 13680 : sec WicHow. 
 
 Waldron, Mr. and Mrs. ; school established by, at AnuadufF or Drumsna, Co. Leitrim j see Annaduff^ 
 
 Walker. Rev. Frederick, Curate of Archdeacon Kyle, who is Trustee, St. Peter's School, Cork : 
 Evidence of, 2167-71, 2178-80. Superintends the management of the school and clothing of the 
 children, 2168 ; purchases the clothing and shoes made up, aud accounts given to archdeacon, 2178. 
 
 Visits the school every day, 2167-70 : half-yearly examinations before strangers, aud prizes 
 distributed, 2171. 
 
 Commissioners notice with satisfaction the constant attendance of the clergymen, 2171. 
 See under Cork, Moses Deane's endowment, St. Peter. 
 Walker, Rev. James, Rector of Donadea, Count}' Kildare : Evidence of, as to Erasmus Smith School at 
 Donadea : — Visited the school while Patrick Leggatt was master, examined the pupils, and was 
 perfectly satisfied with the manner in which it was conducted, 13874-8; places in select school 
 obtained by boys and girls from Donadea school, 13879. — See Donadea. 
 Walsh, George, labourer : Evidence of, as to management of coal fund connected with Borough School 
 of Swords, County Dublin ; refusal of coals unless he wouM send his children to the school, after 
 he had received coals for eighteen years, 15504-15, 15538-46. — See under Swords. 
 
 Walsh, Kate, formerly a school girl, at Borough School of Swords, County Dublin : Evidence of, as to 
 pr.actice of the schoolmistress to require the girls to work for her, after school hours and at night, 
 15261 el seq. : (see under Swords.) 
 
 A Roman Catholic, nature of religious instruction and examination in the school, in Protestant 
 Testament and Mr. Ormsby's catechism, itc, 15297-312 : did not like to learn it till she heard 
 about the fee, aud then got it off, as the only way to get her fee, 15303-4 : (see Swords.)
 
 580 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Wahh, Mary, formerly a school girl at Borough School of Swords, Co. Dublin ; Evidence of, worked after 
 school hours for schoolmistress at needlework, in the school ; not paid, 15:249-60 : see under Su-ords. 
 
 Wann, WiUiara, Esq., Agent of Dungannon Royal School estate, under Clare-street Commissioners of 
 Education: — Letters from, relative to the solicitors, Messrs. M'Causland and Fetherstou's large 
 bills of costs, connected with that estate, 23549 : Evidence of, 23865 et seq. ; communication and 
 return from, in reference to management of the estate of the Commissioners, 23986. — See under 
 Cmiimissioiit'rs of Education. 
 
 Wat-burton, Very Hev. William, Dean of Elphin : 
 
 ELFHIN DIOCESAN SCHOOL. 
 
 Letter from, as to Elphin Diocesan School, and ap]>lication of Bishop Plodson's endowment 
 for a Grammar School, 7224 : evidence thereon, 72G1-7312 ; evidence as to general state of 
 education and provision for same, 7313-35. 
 
 Evidence of, in reference to complaint and claim of Rev. Mr. Flyun, Master of Elphin Diocesan 
 School, who was mistaken (see under Elphin), 7261. 
 
 BISnOP HOI/SOS'S ENDOWMENT, ELPHIN. 
 
 Statement of, as to Bishop Ilodson's endowment : grant in 1685 for the uiainten.ance of a gram- 
 mar school in town of Elphin, for teaching children of the town whose parents are poor, gratis; 
 mismanagement of the bequest, worth £150 a-year, proceeds being only £20 a-year during present 
 lease, an<l misapplication of it to the diocesan school : on resignation of late master of diocesan 
 school, this fund withdrawn from it, and now accumulating till expiration of lease, on fall of an 
 existing life, with a view to the erection and maintenance of a school in accordance with the 
 donor's intention, 7224, 72G1. Evidence showing that the diocesan school and the school intended 
 by Bi.shop Ilodson had nothing to do with one another, and that he did not intend they should be 
 united, but on the contrary, intended to found a sejiarate and additional school to supply the want 
 in the country which the diocesan school did not supply, 7202-71. 
 
 Letter of Bishoji of Kilmore approving withdrawal of the funds from the diocesan school, with 
 a view to their accumulating to form a building fund for erection of a school in accordance with 
 the special directions of the will; trustees named accordingly, 7272. 
 
 Question as to right of a])pointraent of master, heretofore exercised by Bishop ; whether vested 
 in Bishop or in Dean and Chapter ; terms of deed, 7224, 7264, 7275. 
 
 Value of endowment, from which £20 a-ycar has heretofore been received ; lands. 565 acres ; 
 Poor Law Valuation, £335, half of which will be avaihible for Bishop Ilodson's school, besides the 
 fund accumulating, 7224, 7276-7 : improvident arrangements heretofore made, course proposed for 
 the future, 7278-89. 
 
 Endowment for a "grammar school" for teaching the poor gratis, 7277, 7290 ; terms no longer 
 applicable to present state of the country, and application proposed to be made to Lord ClianceHor 
 to relax the terms, and settle a scheme to be submitted to him for a school suitable to the wants of 
 the time, and to the design of the benefactor; outline of plan, 7290, 73U2 et seq, 
 
 OENER.\L STATE OF EDUCATION AND PROVISION FOR SAME. 
 
 Evidence of Dean Warburton as to the general state of education, and the want of adequate 
 provision for same. 
 
 Want of intermediate schools ; at present, not sudicicntly high class of schools generally in this 
 country; present National Schools should be made as cilicient as possible, and higher schools be 
 established, 7313. 
 
 Kind of instruction required in such schools ; more science, natural philosophy, mathematics, iS»c. ; 
 would cultivate in every school as high as possible thiugs which are useful for the ordinary jiuiposes 
 of life — such as surveying, engineering, 7316-8. 
 
 Would teach the modern languages if there be means; more useful than classics, 7320. 
 
 Thinks a classical school rather injurious than otherwise for the general run of people; much 
 time lo.st that ought to be spent on English education ; persons desiring classics likely to obtain 
 means, 7316, 7321-6. It would be desirable to afiord opportunities for the learning of classics 
 where j)erson3 had a great taste in that way, 7319. 
 
 Throwing open public appointments in civil, military, and naval services, to competition by exami- 
 nation, would stimulate education very much, 7327-8 ; mode of establishing and conducting such 
 examinations and competitions, 7328-35. 
 
 Ward, Hon. Judge ; Endowment by, for a school at Killough, Co. Down : see Killough. 
 
 Ward, Mr. Edw ird, master of Erasmus Smith School, Sligo : — Evidence of, 6766 et seq. (see Sliijo). 
 
 Ware, Sir janics; endowment by, for St. John.'jtown, Co. Longford, 7460-2 ; — (sec Johnsloivn.) 
 
 Warner, Rev. Guslaviis, Castlclost Rectory, Roehfort-bridge ; Letter from, referring to Diocesan 
 Scliool, Mullingar, Co. Wcstmeath, and representing the want of a school for sons of clergy and 
 leKpeclablc inhabitants ; forced to send their children to England, Dublin, and elsewhere, though 
 contributing to dio,'csan schoolmaster who has no school or jjupils, 13142 : (sec J/ulltngar.) 
 
 Waterfnrd, Co. and City of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence 
 taken at VVaterford, 152 et seq, 383 et seq, 640 et seq, 16452 et seq, 16775 et seq, 17138 e< seq. 
 
 Blue School, Girls, 567 et seq. 
 
 Corj-oration Free School, 152-329, 363-381, 388 el seq. 
 
 Flannory Endowment, 23183. 
 
 Foy School, 16452-17600. 
 
 IlLUK SClIOOI,, OniLS, WATERFORD. 
 
 In/ormalion from Reports of J'revious Inquiries, i(:c. : — A free school, founded by Jlason family 
 and supported by bequests from them and from Couu.sellor Alcock ; particulars of endowments, 
 number of pupils at dillercnt times, iStc, 567-8,
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 581 
 
 WalerJorJ, Blue Girl^ School, — coiitiiiiuMl. 
 
 Evidence of Robert Thomas Carew, Esq., 508-91, 600, 604. — Iland-s in documents; cliar;;e upon 
 tlic Borough Corporation in virtue of a hcqiiost of £900, and wills of several members of Mason 
 family heaving ljc(|iic.sts for clothing girls, natives of Waterford, and teaching them to read and 
 work, ifeo., 508-577. Will of Counsellor Alcock bcqueatliing a sum for niarriago ])ortions for girls 
 of the school, or for apiJrenticing them, 577-83. Apiirtiuent in .-ichoolhou.se hcijiieatlied, to he let 
 and proceeds apjilied to repairs, 573. Hands in accounts ; at end of 1854 scho(jl in clclit, 587-S, 
 GOO. 
 
 Evidmce (if M rs. (Jtireiu, Patroness of the school, 578, 592 etseq. Remuneration of schoolmistress 
 £12 a-year ; of assistant mistress, lodging only, 592-.j. Accounts; exjienditurc in excess of 
 income ; average cost of each girl's dress, &c , 594-601, Oil. Ohjoctions which have hceii maile to 
 the dress, especially when they wore orange knots; thinks it sliould be continued, thougii it 
 prevents some from applying for admission to the school, 002-10. Children admitted on recom- 
 mendation of clergy or persons of respectability, if Protestants, 612. Roman Catholic children 
 excluiled, 013-4. Scri|)tures read, catechism taught, and children catecliised weekly by clergy, 
 613, 022. Certificate of conduct, and sometimes clothes, given on leaving school, 618-20. Success 
 in after-life, 02G-9. Work done in the school b}' the girls ; not chari^ed for by mistress, nor emo- 
 luments received by her, 623-4. 
 
 Ki'kJmce of Mrs. Sarah O'llani, mistress of the school : — Old practice of girls working for 
 payment, did not answer, and discontinued eight years ago ; schoolmistress receives no emoluments 
 or jirofits from work done by the girls, 030-3. 
 
 Attachment to the old fashiono<l dress ; would not have it altered, although the uniform deters 
 girls from the school, and could not take thom through parts of the city or to church on Wednesdays 
 in the uniform, witiiout their being insulted; wear cloaks then; cost of clothes, 597, 005-6. 
 640-3. 
 
 No inconvenience from letting part of schoolhouse, which is thereby kept in better repair, 034-8. 
 
 Adequate supply iif books and slates, &c. ; small charge for same, 644-0. 
 
 Premiums to children for regularity ami diligence ; beneficial, 647-9 ; examination twice a-year 
 to ascertain progress in learning, 650. 
 
 Preference given in admissions to younger sisters of girls already in school or leaving, 651-3. 
 
 CORPORATION FREE SCHOOL, WATERFORD. 
 
 Tnfdrmntinn from Reports of Previous Inquiries, i(:c. — Accounts of the foundation, nature, and 
 amount of endowments and management of this school ; a classical school ; number of pupils at 
 various periods, emoluments of master, and other particulars, 154-160: question whether the 
 Corporation are bound to pay the salary of the master, which tlicy have heretofore done, 155. 
 Bequest by Dr. Downes for an Exhibition of .£15 a-year, for a student in Trinity College, 156 : 
 as to endowment by Bishop Millcs, &c., 160. 
 
 Present Inquiry.- — Memorial from inhabitants of city and vicinity, signed by the bishop, dean, 
 archdeacon, mayor, and others, praying for inquiry into the foundation and circumstances of the 
 school, so as to extend its usefulness and secure its permanence, the school being inadequatelj' 
 endowed, and the nominal endowment being secured only to the present master; high character of 
 the school, 152-3. 
 
 Returns as to present condition of school : — Master's salary, wfilOO late currency, or i;92 (js. 2d., 
 from Corporation of Waterford : charges, £42 lor boarders, £9 for day scholars, and £5 12s. for 
 extras : second master appointed and paid by head master : number of pupils, November, 1854, 
 sixty-eight, of whom twelve boarders, fifty-six day scholars, 161. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. William John Price, ll.d., master and lecturer of St. Olave's, apjiointed by' 
 Corporation, 102-4 : terms and conditions of appointment ; £92 a-ycar for mastershij) and lecture- 
 ship together ; previous master lield the premises rent free, subject to oblig.ation to keep them in 
 repair ; a rent now charged, and diflerence between his ajipointment and that of masters before 
 Municipal Corporation Act, 104-7, 190. Salary paid by Corporation, but not aware from what 
 source; not aware of endowment by Bishop Millcs; has not seen Dr. Downes' Will, nor Acts of 
 Parliament relating to the endowment of the school, 109-70. 
 
 Increase of pupils in recent years ; sixty-five on list, 178-80. 
 
 Free scholars, none, 194. Corporalion formerly nominated four free pupils under former 
 masters, and before a rent was put on the ])remises, l90. 
 
 On his appointment, Corporation granted an additional endowment of £75 a-year for providing 
 an English master, and £20 or £30 for premiums, at same time increasing the number of free 
 pupils" to eight, to be nominated l>y them : arrangements afterwards annulled under Municipal 
 Reform Act T and Corporation brought an ejectment, which they carried, and put him under rent 
 of £30 a-year for schoolhouse, which had been hehl free by his predecessors : Corporation never 
 since nominated any free pupils ; compelled to pay his salary by mandamus, 190-9. 
 
 No complaints on acconnt of cessation of free places : but he has received boys at nominal sums 
 where parents could not atibnl to pay for suitable education, 200-2. 
 
 No inspection : reports occasionally to Clare-street Commissioners of Education; returns once or 
 twice a-year, 181-2. 
 
 Pupils generally from higher clas.ses of the vicinity, 184-8: majority of Established Church, 
 some Friends, some Presbj'terians, and liave been Roman Catholics, none at present, 190-3, 204. 
 
 Course of instruction very general ; a collegiate education, and one for military colleges, for the 
 professions, engineering, &o., 183, 203. Books used, 229-32. 
 
 Perfectly feasible to combine and carry on classical and commercial education in same school ; it 
 is his practice ; superiority of boys who go through extensive course of classics, generally, 220-1. 
 Books used, 230. _ 
 
 Vol. II. 4F
 
 582 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Waterford, Corporation Free School, — continued. 
 
 Subsequent pursuits of pupils and success iu after-life, in university, the Jiflcrent professions, 
 and commercial life, 189-90, 212, 231-2. 
 
 Exhibitions, want of, and their value to Royal and other schools having them, 212-5. Dr. 
 Downes' exhibition of ^15 (now about £11 net, after deductions) tenable for seven years ; scarcely 
 worth holdinir ; useless to the school, and little cared for, 17G-7, 195 : residence in the university 
 an indispensable condition, 205-8. 
 
 Suggestions for improvement of the school, and making it of greater public utility; increase of 
 endowment and exhibitions required ; and to what extent ; reasons and advantages anticipated, 
 213-9, 222-7, 233, 320-9. And school might be improved by change of hicality, and by Corpo- 
 ration repairing the premises, 228. 
 
 Evidence of John O'Brien, Esq., Town Clerk : as to records and documents relating to the 
 school, 234-51, 25S-G6, 204, 29G-7, 388-412, 419-20. Eesohition of Corporation in 1777, 
 consolidating the offices of master of the Latin school and lecturer of St. Olave's, 259. As to 
 privilege of sending free boys to the school, 263-6. As to appointment of masters, etc., of " free 
 school," 398-405 : site of school and erection of new school, 408 ; house for schoolmaster rent 
 free, 409 : right of Dr. Price to salary or compensation, 419-20. As to other schools in Water- 
 ford, 289-9 L 
 
 Evidence of J. L. Hickey, Esq., Registrar of Diocese : — Will of Bishop Downes, 363. 
 
 Evidence of John G. Alcod; Esq., Barrister-at-Law, 252-257, 299, 414-418. 
 
 Refusal of the Corporation to pay the salary of the master in 1842, and proceedings thereon, 
 252, 257 : difficulties arising out of existing legislation, 414-418. — Endowment, a house in bad 
 part of town, unfavourable to the school, and in fact no advantage to it, £53 : school would be 
 benefited by having a house in a better locality, 253-256. Since former master transferred to 
 Enniskillen School, many boys from Waterford go to Enniskillen, partly on account of the 
 endowment there, 253, 256. 
 
 Amongst the boarders, a great proportion Roman Catholic, 255. Successful combination of 
 classical and commercial education, 257. 
 
 Evidence of Venerable Robert Bell, Archdeacon of Waterford, 300-319. 
 
 Want of exhibitions a great disadvantage to the school, which nevertheless holds a high place, 
 300. Exhibitions a great inducement to persons of moderate means to scud boys to schools 
 having them ; knows boys sent to Royal schools on this account, where otherwise they would 
 have been sent to schools nearer home, 301, 304. Probable advantnge to Waterford school and to 
 master of it in increased income if it had exhibitions attached to it, as other schools; thinks the 
 present emolument of the master inadequate, 307-318, 
 
 Would be an important advantage and stimulus if public appointments in army, navy, and civil 
 service, were given to boys answering best in public examination, 301-5 : possibly more advan- 
 tageous than exhiliitions, 306 ; schools not having exhibitions would be at less disadvantage as 
 compared with those having them, 307-8. 
 
 Evidence of Very Rev. Edivard Newenham Iloare, Dean of Waterford : — As to reports of Edu- 
 cation Inquiry Commissioners from 1824 to 1827 ; as to endowed schools, 267-71 : as to bequest 
 by Bishop Millcs ; probability of his being the founder of the Waterford school endowment, as 
 well as of the St. Olave's lectureship, 271-7, 364. 
 
 High character of the school ; but would still be greatly improved by increased endowment and 
 exhibitions, and by removal to a more suitable locality, a little out of the town, 278-85. 
 
 Importance of exhibitions and disadvantage from want of them, 278 ; very large endowments 
 not desirable ; moderately increased endowment required, 278, 285. Dr. Downes' Exhibition 
 endowment ; trustees and mode of nominating to it, 292-8. 
 
 Would have a Roman Catholic usher, to give confidence to Roman Catholics, though otherwise 
 unnecessary, there being no impediment to Iheni or interference with their religion, in the school, 
 286. There is a school for Roman Catholics in Waterford, 287-91. 
 
 Evidence of Edward Elliott, Esq., Solicitor : — Legacy of Dr. Milles, referred to by Dean Iloare, 
 never accepted by the Corporation ; extract from Dr. Jlilles' AVill, and result of search in Corpo- 
 ration records, 365-81, 413. 
 
 New Corporation under Municipal Act refused in 1843 to pay salary of the master, jircmiums, 
 and taxes, as prcviou.sly ; proceeded against them on part of the master. Rev. Mr. Price, by man- 
 damus, and enforced payment of the salary l)y bond, 371-7. 
 
 FLANNEBY E.VDOWMENT. 
 
 Evidence of JFerrules M'Donndl, Esq., Secretary of Charitable Requests Board ; X20a-ycnrleftby 
 Thomas Flannery for a school at Waterford ; charge of the trust offered to Bequest Board, who con- 
 ceived they could not take charge of it ; proceedings in Chancery, 23183. 
 
 Bisiior foy's school. 
 Information from Reports of Previous Inquiriea, <.y. — Account of (Ije fouudaticm, histoi-y, income, 
 and circumstances of the school; foundcMl by Dr. Nathaniel Eoy, Bishop of Waterford, who in 
 1707, loft residue of his fortune, to be vested in lands for a school to teach poor chihlren gratis, 
 clothe and apprentice tlicm ; annual income in 1788, £533, and a. sum (jf .£1400 lodged; seventy- 
 five children, 16452. 
 
 Act of Parliament in 1808, Ist Geo. II., providing as to the management of the foundation by 
 trustees, and making the school a boarding school, for maint.iining, boarding, and lodging the 
 children, schoolmaster, <fec., in Rclioolhouse ; estates, 1400 acres and small plots of ground in city 
 of Waterfonl, jiroducing oidy .f466 a-year, uiuler leases for lives ; worth X2282 or .£2547, 
 according to suvvoy ; also .£4900 in funds at interest, 16152.
 
 9GC 
 reduction 
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 583 
 
 Watcrford, Poy School, — continiiciL 
 
 Fuitliei- Act of '18 Geo. III. c. 121 ; school removed from city to county, to provide inore 
 acconiiiiodation for lodging the boys ; sixteen or seventeen acres attached to scliool ; good care of 
 tiie property, which was thereby greatly increased in value ; rental now about £1320, net income 
 £1200 a-year, 1G4;H. 
 
 Admission by bishop, but generally on recommendation of mayor, blierifT. or three aldermen, 
 1G454. 
 
 Apprentices, from twelve to twenty every year, with £.6 fee, IGl-Ji. 
 
 Income reported in 1835, at £2547 a-year; 1400 acres, 1G45C. 
 
 Present Inqinrij. — Efklcnce. of Micha.i Roberts, Esq., Agent of the Foy School Estate, 16822- 
 
 G. Accounts and rental, 1G822-9, IG'JiT et seq. Leases expired; re-letting at old rental; 
 
 luction of income; Griffith's valuation, 16833-44. Head rents, 16847. 
 
 Management of estatcsand re-lcttings, under trustees or tiie bishop, 16845-G. Arrears, 16848-52, 
 16927; as compared with otlicr properties, 168.55-6. Allowances to tenants, 1G857-9. Evictions, 
 and loss, 16853-4. 
 
 Personal visitation and inspection of ])roporty by witness, survey and valuation by him 16846 
 1G855, 1G8G0-7O, 16928-33. Compariaou of rents with other properties, on which they are lower, 
 16871-4. Comparison of present and former value; necessity for new valuation; in 1812 esti- 
 mated at £2282 per annum ; rental now, £1554, 16933-8. 
 
 Suggestions for improved management, by encouraging improvements, 16875-6. As to a_n-ricnl- 
 tural improvements and instruction, schools, system of farming ; want of supervision and attention 
 to system pursued by tenantry, and of efforts for its improvement, 1G877-907. 
 
 Further evidence as to management of estate, and illustrations ; changes of tenants, re-lettinn's, 
 size of farms, rent, crops, accumulated arrears, ikc, 16908 et seq. 
 
 Apprentice fees ; paid half on apprenticing, and half after six months ; proceedings in case of 
 complaints against masters, 16952-5. 
 
 Acts relating to the charity, 1G961-3. Its general management, and alterations made therein 
 by the bi.shop, 16964-6. 
 
 Evidence of Mrs. Penelope Gommlns, widow, a nurseteuder, mother of two boys who have been in 
 the school ; complaining of the food of the boys, and of abuses in man.agenient, 17107-35, 
 17168-174: had a boy in the school, who was bound apprentice with a fee; master went to 
 America ; bound to another, and got discontented, 17113 : has a boy in the school, who is never 
 satisfied with the quantity of food, and what he gets is bad, 17r08 ; has not seen what the 
 last boy got, 17109 : particulars of food, Sec., complained of, 17109-10, 17128; as to nieat, bad 
 stuff'; gets only the name of meat, but they miglit be able to eat it if they got enough, 17109 ; 
 her boy falling aAvay in his education and everything ; is the colour of hunger ; has always buen dis- 
 contented, liut she did not mind that; she saw the quantity he ate, 17110-1. Though without a 
 father for her children, would never have had such clothes on him as he wore at school, 17110. Never 
 Complained to the trustees ; never heard of parents of other boys complaining to them, 17112, 1711G. 
 Sends food mostly every week to her boy, as other parents do to their children at the school, if 
 they can afford it, when they go to see tlieni on Sun<lays ; bread and meat, and every little thing 
 they can, not as a treat, but the children complain of being hungry, 17109, 17114-5, 17118-20. 
 Boys have boxes for any little provisions their parents take to them ; her boy had a box for 
 the purpose, and sold it for fourpcnce, 17128. Applied for the admission of a second boy lately, 
 after her first had left to be apprenticed, 17121-5. 
 
 Ten persons who have sent or taken things to eat to their children in the school ; names some ; 
 Mr. Butts, sexton ; thinks Mrs. .Armstrong ; wife of Palmer, tailor to the school ; Roche ; if she 
 got till to-morrow, would ask for more names, 17115, 17127-33. Witness cautioned, 17134. 
 
 On subsequent court day, Mrs. Penelope Conimins does not appear, after service of summons 
 on her personally as certified by head-constable ; letter from Mrs. Penelope Commins assigning 
 a reason for absenting herself, 17168-74. 
 
 Evklenre of Mr. Samuel Jlutts, boot and shoe maker, sexton of St. Olave's Church, Waterford : 
 17260-17376, 17570-17575. 
 
 Has had sons as pupils in the school ; one there at present, 17262-4: they have complained of 
 the food as bad and insufficient ; particulars of complaint, 17265 et seq. Sought nevertheless for 
 the admission of a second son, for his health's preservation, and for the sake of the country air, 
 17331-2. Boys at the school better fed than they would have been at home, some of them, some 
 of them not, 17358. Mrs. Penelope Commins' children might have been better fed at the school 
 than they would have been at home, occasionally, 17359-60 ; Mrs. Penelope Commins applied to 
 have another boy admitted recently, although her first boy was starved ; and she got the second 
 into the school, 173G1-2. 
 
 Mrs. Penelope Commins had a child in the orphan school and made complaints of treatment there 
 also, 17570-5. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. James Pabiier, tailor, 17392-411. Has had three boys in the school; has one 
 at present; the first, admitteil fourteen or fifteen years ago, 17394-5. None of them ever complained 
 of being insufficiently or badly fed ; has questioned the youngest, a delicate child, who saj's he 
 gets enough to eat, 17396. When going out, Avould take him something, bread, cakes, or apples, 
 as other parents do, but not that the child nas in w.int ; is sure he is not, 17400-1. Saw the food 
 at dift'erent times himself and but for being ashamed would have asked for some, it was so well looking, 
 17403. Thriving condition of the children, 17406-7. Knew the woman, Mrs. Penelope Commins, but 
 was never acquainted with her ; has hoard her make complaints, and spoke to her; thought she had 
 no right to do so, 17399 ; never hoard his wife make complaints of the food; knew her talk to 
 Mrs. Commins; it was Mrs. Commins' own talk, 17410-1. 
 
 Evidence of Mrs. Ellen Pattison; had a grandson in the school, 17377 : never heard him 
 complain, 17381-2 : he never complained of bad food, but she used to take him a bit of bread, or 
 Vol. II. 4 F 2
 
 584 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Waterford, Foy School, — continacJ. 
 
 cake, or any thing in that ivay ; would bring it to any strange child and let alone a grandchild ; 
 not from any want she brought it to hirn, but just as a treat, 17383-7; has heard people say the 
 boys were not treated as they ought to be, 17390. 
 
 Evidence of William Roche, a draper, formerly a pupil in the school, 17412-01. Used to 
 complain of food being insufficient in quantity, not bad in quality, 17410-20. The food was at 
 times of inferior quality : stirabout not done euuugh, and has bad it sour, aiid material bad, 17421-5. 
 Housekeeper, Mrs. Hammond, gave bini more when ho complained, 17430-2 : sometimes his 
 complaints not attended to, 17425, 17433. Never comjilained to his parents, but they always 
 brought liim food, as a treat, 17434-5. Particulars of bis complaints ; bread mouldy; meat too 
 old, but had not often to complain of that; meal sour, 17444-50. Fault sometimes in the 
 cooking; it was not done, 17451-2 : sometimes good, sometimes bad, 17452-3; parsnips good, 
 but who could eat parsnips steomed in a boiler ? 17459-01. 
 
 Evidence of Thomas Smith Harvey, bookseller, stationer, and printer, 174G2-502 : — Has had 
 several apprentices from the Foy School ; their general and moral conduct very satisfactory, but 
 their education greatly neglected, 174C3-4, 17481 : particulars of deiicieucles, 17405 et scq. Nature 
 of education required for his business and for boys who are to earn their own living and obtain 
 promotion, 17405, 17469, 17475, 1748S et seq. His present foreman a Foy boy, 17501-2 : 
 co'mpai'ison with apprentices from other schools ; as to inferiority of Foy boys corrects himself, 
 17495-9. 
 
 Apprentices have not complained of food they bad in the school, as to quantity or quality; 
 parents brought food to them, but not from any deficiency ; many boys dissatisfied and would 
 waste what thev got ; food not alwavs comfortably cooked or served ; want of regular supervision, 
 17482-7. 
 
 Evidence rf Joseph Fisher, Esq., proprietor of the Waterford Mail, 17505-25. — Has had Foy boys 
 n his employment; one educated exclusively at the Foy school, the best compositor he ever saw ; 
 nd in consequence of his good education became a reporter, 17500-14. Has another Foy boy an 
 pprentice, of very fair education ; has several apprentices, and thinks his education not neglected, 
 ut a very fair education and fully up to the average of the others, 17514-7. 
 
 Objections to a boarding school for boys of this class ; original design of Bishop Foy to have a 
 day school in the city, far more conducive to welfare of the children for whom intended, 17517 
 et seq. With the income of Foy School, about £1,400 a-year, an institution might be founded 
 for education of difl'ercnt classes ; an upper school, paying; a second school, for gratuitous educa- 
 tion ; a third, for education and board ; furihcr particulars of suggested arrangements, 17525. 
 
 Want of inspection, and supervision by a local committee, for Foy School, 17525. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. James O'Donohoe, master, 10477-8, 10490, 10502-10, 10557-G97, 1079S, 
 16800-8, 10811, 17002-7, 17520-509, 17570-90.— Number of pupils, thirty-eight; fully the 
 average, if not more, 10559-00. Generally of the lowest class, Protestants, 16573, 1000.3-7. 
 
 Course of instruction, English, with geography and mathematics ; mensuration and book-keeping 
 to some extent, 1G5G7, 10591-000; desirableness of mechanics, agriculture, and industrial occupa- 
 tion, 10595, lCOOl-4, 10015-22. Books used; chosen and supplied by trustees, 10508-71 : want 
 of better books, maps, &c., 10585-90, 10009-10. 
 
 As to complaints of the defective education of Foy boys in English : describes course of instruction ; 
 if he could have examined Mr. Harvey (supra), would have brought out a different story altogether; 
 instances boys of good education in Mr. Harvey's employment, 17570-7 et seq. Mistakes in writing 
 from dictation, sometimes none, sometimes "between two and three;" correction of mistakes, some- 
 times passed over, impossible to go through all, 17584-7. Bad spellini; by master himself; instances, 
 17588-96. 
 
 His duties confined to conduct and education of the boys ; would secure greater cleanliness if he 
 had more authority ; does not interfere with housekeeper, 10611-4, 16672-6, 17555-6. 
 
 Repairs of establishment much wanted, 16501-2. Defective ventilation of schoolroom, 16002-71 ; 
 accumulation of dirt about it, 10075-0. Boys generally very healthy; no death during eleven 
 years ; a case of fever once or twice ; ringworm amongst the boys for eight or twelve mouths, but 
 got rid of, 16688-95. 
 
 Hours and distribution of dav, 16647-8 ; holidays few, 16649-01. Never takes the boys out to 
 walk, 10096-7. 
 
 Discipline; corporal |iuuislimcnt, how and under what circumstances administered; no report 
 book, but ordered to Hog by the bishop in some cases, 16023-40. 
 
 Inspection of school by the bishop and dean, chiefly by the bishop, and visited by catcchist and 
 physician : bishop records result of his inspection and examination of l)oy.s in a book, 16563-6. 
 Catcchist, the vicar; attends weekly, and great attention to the sick, 16677-87. 
 
 Success in after-life of pupils; generally turn out well; only one in eleven years behaved ill, 
 and he reformed, 10574-84. Considers it a great advantage for the poor to liave this a lioarding 
 .school, ICOOG. 
 
 As to complaints about Food of the boys : — never a general coni]ilaint ; sometimes, not frivjucntly, 
 individual complaints that a boy '' has not got a fair share," or meat too fat, itc; particulars of 
 complaints, 17027 ct seq. Food brought by parents, who will <hi it, but knows the food jirovided 
 for the boys was fully sullicicnt, 17542, 17501-8; boys take bread away, after dinner ddiie, and 
 barter it for apples ; bad to drive away an aj)ple woman wljo used to come to barter a])ples for 
 boys' food, 17153-4 : in the division of large (piantity of food amongst a number of boy.s, dilliculty 
 of exactly equal apportionment ; one may come in for less than an(jtlicr, 1 7530-1, 1755] ; has some- 
 times got an additional quantity, sometimes not, 17531. Comi)laint of a boy (liO(-he, supra), 
 to the Key. Jlr. Wynne, late catcchist, wdio replied that if he was hungry he would cat the food, 
 17557-9.
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 585 
 
 Waterford, Poy School, — continued. 
 
 Mrs. Penelfipc Conimins sclilom came to biiii;: food to lior boy at Foy .seliool ; was so dissati.-fied 
 with Iier son at Orphan-lioiisc scliool, where they are well treated, that she withdrew him, ami oli'ered 
 witness money for getting,' him so good a school as Foy school, 175G9, 17574. 
 
 Eoidence of Mrs. Eliaibcth llammonil, housekeeper of the school, 10007-17100, 17597-000. 
 Duties of housekeeper, 1G'J7G. 
 
 Food of the hoys and mode of supply ; meat froui the best butcher in Waterford ; meal and milk 
 the best ; bread very good ; suj)iilies got by eoutraet, uimu sani]des, selected by trustees, the bishop-, 
 or dean, ami often inspected by the bislinp, l(J'J77-9. Meals and n;iturc of diet at each; food the 
 best in the market, 17(i.')7-15. The dean states to same effect, 170-11-. Quantity of food; boys 
 get more than they could use and lea-ve some, although they have complained that they had not 
 enough, 1704()-08: statements of bishop and dean, 17057, 17003-8 (<i)iil, see below, uiuler their 
 evidence). On one occasion, seeing insects in the rice or meal went to the merchant and complained 
 of it, 17049-51; no comjdaint from the boys, 1705:i-3. 
 
 Servants of the institution ; number, mode of appointment, allowances, duties, <tc., 10980-90, 
 17095-102. 
 
 Cleauiug aud washing arrangements, k(.\ ; if house washed oftoner, additional assistance would be 
 required ; schoolroom washed not oftcner than onci^ in throe months ; other rooms once a-week, 
 10991-7. Changes of bedding ami body liueu for boys, 17000-1.'> : arrangements as to clothing 
 and washing the boys, 17014-.'5G. Boys never bathe; not washed all over within the last two 
 years; boys who liked to go and wash themselves, arc gone, 170i'5, 17034. Master's evidence 
 as to bathing, 100:i4. 
 
 Hair cutting and barber's fees for doing it; sometimes cut by housekeeper, but fees not appro- 
 priate<l to her use, 17009-84. 
 
 Other details; payment of bills, candle light in hall, keeping of fowls anil pigs; buys and pays 
 for food for the latter herself, 17085-100. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Joseph Mackesy, junioT, physician to the school, 10098-770, 10817-21. Health 
 of the boys generally very good ; fully up to the average of boai'ding schools or above it ; casual 
 cases of illness, and accidents, 10098-707. Ringworm and dirt ; repeated remonstrances as to 
 want of cleanliness in the boys, their persons and clothes, and in the school apartments generally, 
 10709-29, 10730, 10738, 10817-9. Scald head .and dirt, 10820-1. Want of more efficient super- 
 vision of the whole school, 10733-8, 10753-5. 
 
 Dietary; natureof; boys have thriven upon it; approved of by him, and generally satisfactory, 
 16739-52. lias remonstrated with matron and entered in book, when any thing wrong in regard 
 to food, &c., 10755-03; his reports not alw.ays attended to, 10701-3, 10817. One case of severe 
 illness ; not attributable to the school, 10704-9. 
 
 Evidence of Dr. Markesfii, senior ; as to medical arrangements of Foy School as compared with 
 Society of Friends' School in same county, 10538, 10771-3 : and of Dr. J. Machesy, junior, 
 16704-7. 
 
 Evidence of Very Rev. Edward Newenliam Iloare, Dean of AVaterford, one of the trustees of the 
 school, 10467-550, 1G087, 10775-810, 17003-8, 17229-32, 17249-58. 
 
 As to management and accounts, leases, itc. : income now, ,£1400 a-j'car, 10457-08, 10541-50. 
 Salaries, 16531-4, 10537-8. Account of foundation and change to a boarding school, arrangement 
 and condition ; well condueteil as to education, feeding, and clothing ; but dirt}', and wants cleaning; 
 suggested improvements, 10409-70, 10540. 
 
 Bad state of repair of the premises, owing to state of funds; dirt, want of appliances for 
 cleansing, &c. ; want of Bibles, clothes, &c. ; finances improved and measures in progress for reme- 
 dying defects, 10787-810. 
 
 Food of boys ; never heard complaints, and knows that when boys are away from school for 
 holidays, parents send them uj) to get the school diet, 1 7229 ; course taken for securing good provi- 
 sions from good tradesmen, 17229 ; complainant, Mrs. Penelope Comniius more importunate than 
 any other parent to get her second child in, 17229. Complaints of food and treatment of boys 
 unfounded in fact, 17229. 
 
 Improvement in repairs and cleanliness and gener.al state of school, on second attendance of Com- 
 missioners, 17229,17249-50. 
 
 Objection to boarding school system for children of humbler classes, 10470-2 : grounds of ob- 
 jection, 10491-7, 10514-20, 10529, 17229 : would be more in accordance with intentions of founder 
 to have a day school, 17229. 
 
 Apju-enticing, its extent and management, 10470, 10473-81, 10485-0 : selection of masters by 
 the bishop or dean, or both, as trustees, 17229. 
 
 ConGrmation of boys before leaving school, 10539. 
 
 Inspection of school and examination of boys by the bishop and dean, clergyman and catechist, 
 frequently, in each week; annual examinations, but no prizes, 10473, 10482-4,10487-90, 10536. 
 
 Recreation and amusement of the boys not sufficient ; want of ball-alley and cricket-ground, 
 16498-513, 10521. 
 
 Conduct of boys after leaving school generally good ; believes the}' have turned out well, some 
 remarkably well, none bad that he knows of, 10523-9, 10530. 
 
 Suggestions for better government of the institution ; larger number of trustees, with some of the 
 laity; at present only the bishop and dean ; inconvenience in case of dilt'erence, and dean virtually 
 no voice : improveuKuits require<I, for which a larger local governing body is desirable, in regard 
 to books and nuips, industrial emjdoyment, recreations, corporal punishmeiM, 10775-85. AVan.t of 
 a resident manager or general su]ierintendent, with wife for matron, having authority over the 
 master, housekeeper, and whole establishment, subject only to the trustees, 16786, 17251-6; and 
 want of local governing body, 17257.
 
 586 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Waterford, Foy School, — continued. 
 
 As funds are so ample, tliink.s there should be a classical and couiraercial day school, with good 
 a]>prentice fees, and clotliing to a certain extent, but not in uniform, 17:^29. 
 
 Ecidence of Right Re)\ the Bishop of Cashd, Wn/ei-foi-d, and Lismore, one of the trustees of the 
 school, 17139-228, 17233-i8, 17259, 17333, 17480, "17504. 
 
 General account of the school, its former and present management, and condition, 17141, 
 17213-8. 
 
 Difliculties of management of the school ; want of superintendence, change of system some time 
 ago; rules drawn up, 17141. 
 
 Successful after-life of the boys ; never one that really turned out ill ; benefit of Scriptural 
 education; bealtliincss of school, 17142. 
 
 Appreutieini:: course taken in ap])rcnticing and selection of masters by trustees or one of them; 
 trades, ic, 17183-99. Ajjpronticc fee too small to be of much use in enabling them to get eligible 
 situations beyond Waterford itself, 17142-5. Payment of apprentice fee by instalments at different 
 times useful, 17148 : — As to watchfulness by trustees, over conduct and treatment of apprentices 
 after they leave the school ; desirable where practicable, 17149-51. 
 
 Fees sometimes paid to enable a young person to emigrate with his family and be apprenticed ; 
 and in sending boys to sea, 17146-7. 
 
 Want of local body or committee of supervision, 17151, 171G1-3: constitution of such a body, 
 17152-4. Want of a governing body with local patrons or visitors under them: necessity of a 
 body who will give attention to the school ; its composition, 17200-7, 17219-22. Further sug- 
 gestions as to management, discipline, punishments, &c., 17208-12. 
 
 Strong objection to boarding schools for boys of humbler classes, as in this school ; grounds of 
 objection, 17141, 17155, 17159, 17223. Comparative expense of boys in Foy .school and other 
 schools in the locality, and advantages of local superintendence in the latter, 17159-60. 
 
 Would convert the school to its original purpose, of a day school, but not limited merely to the 
 city of Waterford; funds would be sufficient to educate all the Protestant poor children of the 
 whole county of Waterford, or of the diocese of Waterford and Lismore, 17141, 17155-8, 17224-5. 
 
 Examinations annually, but not attended byjiareuts or other persons; no prizes, and advantage 
 doubtful, 17162-4. 
 
 A'alue of throwing open public, naval, military, and civil appointments to comi)etition; in 
 encouraging and stimulating education, preferable to endowment of establishments giving gratui- 
 tous education. 1722G-8. 
 
 Food of the boys, who have an abundance of the very best food ; mode of obtaining supplies, and 
 management of same, 17165-G. Complaints made totally without foundation ; boys well and 
 sufficiently fed, 171G7 ; their health, 17165. 
 
 Blrs. Penelope Commins' complaint and non-attendance on summons at second inquiry, 17168-74, 
 Evidence of the bishop on her allegations, 17175-82. 
 
 Further evidence as to neglect and want of cleanliness in dress and persons of the boys, of mas- 
 ters, arid of the whole school, and want of orderly arrangements, and other details ; some evils 
 remedied since Commissioners' first inquiry ; great want of regular inspection and supervision ; 
 master's duties, 17233-48, 17259. 
 
 Watso7>., Alderman Ilmry, late Mayor of Limerick, communication from, as to property attached to 
 late Charter school at Shannon Grove or in Limerick, 4730-1-2 : no such school now, 4731 — (See 
 under iSha/t?i07t Grove.) 
 
 Weaving School; Bishop Pococke's, Kilkenny, under Incorporated Society, 1689,7008, 23253-8, 
 23264-6 H seq. 
 
 Wehh, Henry, formerly master of the late school of Erasmus Smith at Clonaslee, Queen's Co. ; 
 memorial from, for compensation, suj)erannuation, or annuity : (see Clonadee) 4736. 
 
 Wehh, Richard Davis, Esq., printer, Dublin ; Evidence of, as to general state of education, and want 
 of adequate provision for same in Dublin, 23463 et seq. 
 
 Diilcrent degrees of preparation in young men for business, 23467 : many who succeed well in 
 business have very limited literary acipiirements, 23468-70. Ignorance of many coming up to 
 Dublin ; not so proficient even in reading, writing, and arithmetic, as boys in National Schools; 
 attributes their deficiencies to want of good schools in the countr}-, 23480-6, 
 
 Sent his sons to an excellent school at Manchester, not finding a school in Dublin to give thera 
 the education he wished for them, a good sound English education, 23471 : high character of the 
 school an.l master at Manchester, 23473-4; such a school would be successful in this country, 
 23476 ; if he could have found one in Dublin, would not have sent his sons away, 23475, 23477-9. 
 
 WeUand, Henry, Esq., residing a mile from Midlcton ; Evidence of, as to Midleton Endowed School, 
 Co. Cork ; has a son whom ho was anxious to send to school, but would not wend him to Midleton 
 school on account of the character it bears ; laxity of discipline, (see under Midleton) ; would be a 
 very great convenience to him and others to be able to send their sons to be educated in the neigh- 
 bourhood, 17995-18021. 
 
 West, 'Rev. S'lmuel Ma.ricell,\uruui\>cut of Killongh (Co. Down); communications from, respecting 
 Ki'llough School and endowments by Kev. .James Hamilton and .Juilgc Ward ; school closed in con- 
 «equenco of disagreements as to the application of proceeds of be([uest, 9778-9. Evidence of Mr. 
 West as to withdrawing of Mr. Hamilton's bequest, and comniunication from the Primate on the 
 subject, 9781 el »'(/. 
 
 Further evidcnce-of Rev. S. M. West, in answer to Mr. Dcsjjard, agent of Lord Bangor and of 
 the Charity, who controverts Mr. West's statement as to endowment, 20305-7, 20310, 20312-3; — 
 (see uniler Killovjli.)
 
 INDEX TO EVIDENCE. 587 
 
 Westmeath, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education ; evidence taken 
 
 at Mullingar, 13089 H mj. 
 
 Wexford, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and cndowiiients, and state of education; evidence taken 
 at Wexford, 421 et scq. , 
 
 Erasmus Sniitli Boys and Girls School, •i'>i-500. 
 Tate Endowment for Education and Ciiarity, 421-45S. 
 
 ER.\SJinS SMITH SOIIOOI,, BOVS ASD GIRLS, WEXFORD. 
 
 Evidence of Mr. James Freeman Booth, master, 454-529, 537-9. 
 
 Particulars of numbers, attendance, hours, holidays, &c., of school, salaries of teachers, ifec, 455 
 el seq., 536-9. Of fifty-four hoys attending the school, two Ronuin Catholics, 455-G : could 
 accomnioilatc sixty four or seventy, 4G9. Pupils free ; none rejected who do not pay, nor for 
 religion, 4(17-8 : admitted on rcconuncndation only, from the Rev. Mr. Elgee, rector of [larisli 
 but recoinmeud;ition of one of committee would do, 470-2. SnuiU number of i)Ui)ilsou Saturdays, 
 473-5. Attendance of clergyman to catechise tlie children, boys and girls together, 479-484, 529 • 
 Roman Catliolic children go home during the time ; attend during the reading of the Scriptures 
 daily, 485-490. School books sui)2)iied by committee, 47G-8. Ages of admission, up to eighteen, 
 491-8. Parents griierally of rcspccttible condition in life, 499. Pupils mostly go into shops and 
 trades; instractimi directed to tliat object ; kind of instruction, 500-2. Tliose he can call to mind 
 have done w-ell in afterlife, 504-G. lias been master four and a-lialf years, appointed by rector 
 and committee, 503, 507-509. Children healthy ; thinks the sc1io(j1 working well ; has no alter- 
 ations to suggest, 510-513 : but an advanced ilescription of books might be supplied, 514. Ap- 
 proves continuous instruction of five hours together, 516-7 : no play-ground, 618. Singing might 
 make the school more attractive, o]!.5. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Richard Waddy Elfjee, Rector of Wexford, as to the Erasmus Smith school, 
 487, 530-5. Tlie Scriptures read during school hours, but catechetical instruction after, 487. Suc- 
 cess in afterlife of piipils, who generally have turned out remarkably well for their class in life, 
 530-5. 
 
 TATE ENDOWMENT FOR EDUCATION, &.C., AT WEXFORD. 
 
 " Tate's Charity for Education in Wexford ;" £7000 in the funds left by will by William Tate, 
 ■who died in 1794 ; annual proceeds, i.'227 16s. ; money since accumulating, no appropriation of 
 dividends or interest having taken place ; described as for a " school, Wexford," and for " charity 
 schools in the town of Wexford :" — Return from Bequest Board states, " Local trustees none as 
 yet;" same return says, "the mayor, sherillj rector, and churchwardens of Wexford, are the 
 local trustees ; but they iiave not agreed as to the form of tlio intended school :" Returns from 
 rector and mayor refer back to the Bequest Boar<l, in whose hands the ^vill, documents, and funds 
 are : Trustees agreed in 1853 to take ground for building, and have had three oflers, but have not 
 procured an eligible site, 421. 
 
 No town in Ireland more requiring an immediate application of funds for education, more par- 
 ticularly for schools without religious distinction, 421. 
 
 Bequest also of JIOOO by same benefactor, for weekly distribution of bread to indigent house 
 keepers, impartially and without distinction of religion, 421. 
 
 Evidetice and Return of Robert J. Crean, Esq., M.D., Mayor of Wexford, 421, 422, 426-8 436-8 
 447-53. Great want of means of education in Wexford, at the same time that this large bequest 
 for the purpose is lying unemployed ; existing schools unable to afford instruction to children apply- 
 ingfromwantof funds, 422 : hundreds of children applying who cannot be admitted to schools for want 
 of means, 422, 426-8. No meeting of trustees since he has been mayor, never heard of any in 
 April, 1853, 426, 436; no correspondence on the suliject, nothing done by his predecessors, 426. 
 Intentions of testator as indicated by his will, 422 ; would be defeated, in regard to education of 
 children in Wexford, the great majority of whom are Roman Catholics, if the rector's ideas were 
 carried into effect, 447 : desires that the will should be carried out according to its intention 
 not for Roman Catholics alone, but for the inhabitants generally, without reHgious distinction 
 436-8. 
 
 Evidence and Return of Rev. Richard Waddy Elgee, Rector of Wexford, 421, 424, 434-46, 448-50. 
 Return as to particulars of information required, " nil," but refers to Bequest Board, 421. Pro- 
 duces a document containing extracts from the will, 424. Was empowered by trustees in April, 
 1853, to look out for a site, none eligible otiered ; Will will bo carried out according to the letter • 
 mode of selecting children, etc., given in the will ; has thought it better to allow the fund to accu- 
 mulate, 434; has no other documentary evidence to put in ; supposes minutes or copy of minutes 
 of the meeting of April, 1853, have been preserved by then mayor, 435; has no accounts or docu- 
 ments, 440-6. Reasons of the delay in applying the bequest, 439. Nothing in the will to show its 
 applicability to education of children of Roman Catholics, 448-50. Inference on this point from 
 the will, 449. 
 
 Evidence of R. W. Ryan, Esq. : Produces a copy of the will obtained from Bequest Board, 423 
 429; various bequests; portion for education locked up and accumulating; several of tlie other 
 legacies must have lapsed and fallen into the fund for education, 423, 425 ; no lands in will ; 
 only money ; no other documents, 430-1, 433. 
 
 Portions of will read and set forth, but not those referred to as relating to education, 432, 434. 
 
 White, Rev. Janh's, father of a boy at Midleton Endowed School, Co. Cork; evidence favourable 
 to the instruction and conduct of the school, 17958 et seq. : (see Midleton.) 
 
 WicMotv, Co. of: Inquiry as to schools and endowments, and state of education; evidence taken 
 at Wicklow, 13676 ct see/. 
 
 Diocesan School, 13681-90, 13724-39. 
 
 Eaton Bequest, 13778-88. 
 
 Orphan School; endowment by Jeffrey Waldron, Esq., 13680. 
 
 Schools endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 13676-9. 
 
 General State of Education, and want of provision for same in locality, 13691-723.
 
 588 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IRELAND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Wicklow — continued. 
 
 DIOCESAN' SCIIOOL. 
 
 Informatiijn fr/m Previntis fiiquiri'S, ^r. — Report of .Committee of House of Commons, in 183,>, 
 rejiorts it a.s a free school witli oiuht acres of land ; refers to previous reports of 1788 anJ 
 18:37, twelve acres or upwards, 13687. lleport on Diocesan Schools in 1827, by Commissioners of 
 Education Imiuiiy ; establishment of a scIhjoI for dioceses of Dublin and Glenda'loiigh, at Wicklow; 
 refers to laud endowment; master appointed but no liouse or school, and Grand Jury refused to 
 present for building ; master received emoluments for schools of both dioceses, £100 a-ycar salary, 
 and had in his private house one boarder and four or five day boys, 13689. Land sold; and in 
 1826 and 183J, no school in opefatiou, 13GSS. 
 
 Present Inquin/. — Letter from John Samuels, Esq., Registrar of dioceses of Dublin and Glenda- 
 lough; no diocesan schoolmaster since 1834 ; none for years before 1824 ; not aware of any 
 endowment now, 13G90. 
 
 Evidence of Iteo. Andrew Brownrig;/, Rector of Wicklow : — Lands of diocesan school disjiosod of 
 by Government and lost to the parish, 13681-G. 
 
 Evidence of James Byrne, Esq., resident of town of Wicklow, and tenant on the lands formerly 
 belonging to the Wicklow Diocesan School : — As to the sale of the lands by the Government in 1848 ; 
 two Iri.sh acres sold ; eight and a-lialf acres remain unsold, and in hands of a tenant of the Govern- 
 ment (see Cuvanagh i) 1372G-37. Great want of a good school in the place, a good English and 
 classical school ; many persons would be glad of such a school, who cannot aflbrd to send their 
 children away to school, 13738-9. 
 
 EATON BEQUEST. 
 
 Information in previous "Digest of Charitable Funds designed for Education ;" £G3 a-year, bv 
 Miss Catherine Katon ; recovered in 1824, 13782 : litigation, by which Bequest Board recovered 
 the bequest and funds, but not returned as for education, 13786. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Andrew Brownrigg, T^eclor of Wicklow : — Bequest by Miss Catherine Eaton, 
 left to elerg_ymcn and churchwardens of Wicklow, but not stated "to their successors ;" received 
 the rents, but is not able to say whether it was for education purposes, 13783-4. 
 
 Evidence of Joseph Morton, Esq., Chairman of Town Commissiouer.s : — Particulars of property 
 which he has heard was bequeathed by a person named Eaton for charitable purposes, out of which 
 schoolhouses were erected; property now in other hands, 13778-81. 
 
 Evidence of James Bgrne, Esq., resident in town of Wicklow : — As to Miss Eaton's bequest. 
 Rev. ]\Ir. Brownrigg's statement correct ; the property Mr. Morton speaks of for schools at Wicklow 
 fell out of lease, 1378-5. 
 
 ORrnAN scuool: endowment by Jeffrey walpron. 
 Wicklow Orphan School mentioned in " Digest of Charitable Funds designed for Education," 
 by Committee of House of Commons, in 1835: £20 left for a poor orphan school by Jefl'rey 
 Waldron, 13680. 
 
 SCUOOLS ENDOWED UNDER LORD LIEUTENANt's IUNE. 
 
 Account of Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; its origin, nature, amounts, and application, on condition 
 of a grant of land in perpetuity being obtained, 13676. 
 
 Wicklow uuile school ; grant from fund ,£20, subscriptions £90 ; no mention of land, 13G76. 
 Wicklow female school ; grant on similar conditions, 13676. 
 
 W^icklow free school ; grant from fund £40, from Kildare-street Association £30, and private 
 donations, 13679. 
 
 Evidence of Rev. Andrew Broivnrigg, Rector of Wicldow : Relating to schools stated to Iiave 
 been endowed under Lord Lieutenant's Fund, 13677-9 ; the Wicklow parish schools certainly 
 received no grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, that he is aware of, 13G78. 
 
 Evidtiice if Hon. and Rev. WiUiain Wingfield, as to aid from Lord Lieutenant's Fund, for iiuihling 
 schools, whicli were afterwards left dependent on private means; in one case (in Wicklow) built 
 in the chapel-j'ard, and since added as a wing to the chapel by the priest, 5117. 
 
 GENERAL STATE OF EDUCATION, AND WANT OF PROVISION FOR SAME IN WICKLOW. 
 
 Evidence of R-v. Andrew Brownrigg, Rector of Wicklow : No classical school; groat want of one 
 in tlie town ; would have considerable attcn:!ance ; growing ])o])ulation and no means of l)etter kiuii 
 of education but at heavy expense of sending children to Dublin or elsewhere, 13691-6. Great 
 want of a good English commercial school : would be a great attendance at a good classical and 
 commercial school, double that at a classical school alone, 13G96-9, 13706-7. At present, boys 
 inteniled for mercantile pursuits, educated at parochial or National school ; no means whatever of 
 learning modern languages; no French master resident; worse ofT than if further from Dublin, 
 13700-3. Instances of the want of a school on the spot, 13721-3. 
 
 Suggests the restoration of tho former school lands (see above, under Diocef an Schooh), and estab- 
 lishment of a good school thereon ; would be a vast benefit, especially from the increasing import- 
 ance of Wicklow since the completion of the railway, and increase of residents: suggests a 
 boarding and day schoid combinecl, 13708-10. 
 
 Boarding school need not be confined to one religion ; has been at schools where dilTercnt religions 
 did not chilli, as at a diocesan school in We:ifor<l, ttc, did not interfere with one another, 13710-14. 
 Manner in wliich religious instruction of diU'orent denominations was conducted, 13715-17. Bene- 
 ficial results jiroduced, 13718-20. 
 
 Evidence of Jfarois Jfaingai/, Esq., resident at Wicklow for more than twenty years, 13765-G. 
 Great want of schools for middle classes in tho locality; no means of giving a classical education 
 without sending the children aw.ay to a distance ; instances, some to Cliester and Holland, 13767 ; 
 a good school at home, or near, wonhl be ])referred, 13768. Want of means of education much felt; 
 a school for a good general course of education in Englisli and classics, with modern languages, 
 would be well attended, 13768-71, 13775-6. No classical school at i)r(vsent, or for French, or for 
 general education; if a good school established, now there is a railroad, numbers from Dulilin 
 woulcl lake advantage of it, for the sake of health ; visitors to the sea for tho summer obliged to
 
 rNDEX TO EVIDENCE. 589 
 
 VTicklow — cciiitiniioJ. 
 l)rin^' down priviilc tutors, or liavo no iiieaiis of cJiioatiou ; a goitd school would bo a "Tcat boon, 
 13772-7. 
 
 Evidenri- of Jon'ph Mofloii, Esij., (Jh;iirmu:i of Town CoiuiiuHsioncrs, to saiiio efirct, an to absence 
 of any scliool for lii.s class in socioly, and dL-l'cctive means resorted to for education, 13787-S. 
 
 \Vi(]i]!nK, ITciini, Visit\., Land A^cnt of Grocers' Coinjiany, patrons of Erasmus Smith School at Muflj 
 Co. Londonderry ; — Evidence of, 2>a^c 'M'.): — see Mi'jf. 
 
 Wilkinson, John, Esq., j.p. : — Evidence as to MiiUetoii Endowed School, Co. Cork : had a son at 
 the school whom he removed to another school, from dissatisfaction at his progress and at tiie want 
 of disci]>!ine at tlic Midleton Sc'.iool ; sniokinjj, drlnkin.', and card-[ilaying amon^jst the boys 
 there; further details in evidence, 17SO-'5-4-7: (sw j)/idlKlon.} Sends his Ijoys to Portarlington ; 
 if there were a proper school at Midictou would .send them to it and save expense, 17844-5. 
 
 JTi^'ore, llcv. Jiob ft, T).D., Professor of Biblical Criticism and Secretary of Faculty in General Assembly's 
 College, Belfast: Evidence of, as to the want of intermediate schools, or superior schools for the 
 middle classes, 10547-8. 
 
 Paper containing the substance of his views on the subject, and referring to the views of the 
 Presbyterian body as to the necessity of intermediate schools, 10547. 
 
 The great educational vviiut of Ireland, a sound system of intermediate education for middle 
 classes; llagrant abuses in management of ]>.oyal and other endowed schools : the State, with the 
 aid of local support, should establish a system of intermediate schools for united education, profes- 
 sional and commercial; existing foundations to form part of the S3'stem and general fund, 10547. 
 
 Desire for higher education, notwithstanding decrease in numbers attending classical schools in 
 Belfast, and extinction of classical schools in the North of Ireland; further details as to existing 
 state of schools an<l demand for e<lucation amongst Presbyterian body, 10547-8. 
 
 Wiw/fidd, Hon. and Rev. \ViUi<t»>, Vicar of Abbeyleix, Queen's Co., one of the guardians of Lord 
 Povverscimrt's estate, Co. Wicklow : Evidence of, as to alleged endowments for schools at Cas- 
 tlemac.adam and Newbridge, County Wicklow, 13/45-6. 
 
 Newbridge Cha]>el-school was built partly by grant from Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; school still iu 
 existence, 13748-50. 
 
 Other school, see Castlemacadam : education iu the district sufficient, 13757-61. 
 
 Evideucc of; as to endowment hj Lady Lanesborough for a school at Abbeyleix ; has not heard 
 of such a school, 5101 ; no longer in operation, 5113, 5116. 
 
 Kuaptown, Queen's Co. : endowment for a school, under Lord Lieutenant's Fund ; no longer 
 in operation, 5113, 511C. Mr. Wingfield states that, as in other cases, aid was given to build the 
 school, and that was all, the schools being left to private means; in one case (in Wicklow) built in 
 the chapul-yard, and since added as a wing to the chapel, by the priest, 5117. 
 
 Wolsdey, Picv. John, Portarlington ; letter from, relating to reported endowment by Patrick Dillon. 
 Esij., for a school at C.astleniarket, Queeu's Co., 5092. — -See CastUmarket. 
 
 Wdodbrool; Co/)lbanagher, Queen's Co. :, see Coolhanagher. 
 
 Woodpai-h and J »«a£?oit7i schools, Co. Gal v.'ay ; endowments by Rev. Redmond Hargadan and Mr. 
 Blake, of Crcgg Castle ; see Annadown. 
 
 Woodward, Rev. U., Rector of Fetliard, (^i. Tipporary : — Commuuications from, as to reported 
 endowments for schools at Fethard, and in parish of Balliutemple, by Rev. M. Hickcy, p.p., and 
 Mr. Berry; states that on coming to the parish in 1812, there having been no parish schoolmaster 
 for some years, a fund left by Mr. Hickey had accumulated to some hundred pounds, in hands of 
 Rev. Wm. Armstrong: by subscriptions, built a schoolhouse, got a schoolmaster, and received 
 interest regularly from Mr. Armstrong, until Board of Education was established and called in this 
 fund, which was supposed to be invested in the five per cents., the interest being jiaid by their 
 oflicer till he died, when it was found he had not invested but had embezzled the money; died u 
 pauper, and money lost, f)G2. — Sec under Balliutemple, Fethard. 
 
 Woodward, Rev. Thomas, \ icar of Mullingar. — Diocesan school ; is not in operation so far as education 
 of pupils is concerned, 13144; no pupils, 13273-4; suggestions for improvement ; want of exhibi- 
 tions, 13257-S, 13268, 13273, 13278-90, 13306-9; a good middle class mercantile school, with 
 modern languages, more wanted than a classical school ; would have a good attendance, 13259-6S, 
 13291-305 ; prevalent dissatisfaction with the diocesan school, 13269-72. — See under Mallingar. 
 
 Work in Schools ; see Emploi/ment, Agricidiure, &c. 
 
 Wright, lliomas Edmond, Esq., solicitor : Evideucc of, as to Diocesan School, Mouaghan, 91 10 et seq. ; 
 as to Jackson School, Monaghan, 8580 et seq. 
 
 Was formerly a pupil for two years in Monaghan Diocesan School, under Dr. Mooney ; considers 
 it was at that time a good classical school ; has no personal knowledge of it since ; there were some 
 corporal punishments, but not so severe as he has seen elsewhere ; Dr. Mooney not a cruel severe 
 man ; cannot account for the falling ofl'in number of pupils, 9110-37 : — (see undei Monaghan.) 
 
 Is solicitor for one of the leiiatees, .Jackson School, Monaghan ; statement of course taken by tho 
 trustees iu administration of the trust ; terms of will, 8580-6 ; notice served by master, and notice 
 by representatives of devisees in reply; ofler of arbitration, <Sic., 8581: questions as to the obliga- 
 tions of the trust and of the executors, and management of the property', 8582-6: — (see under 
 Monaghan.) 
 
 Wynne, Right Hon. John: Letter from, as to general state of education and provision for same in 
 Sligo: great want of a school in the locality for ailordiiig a good English education to middle 
 classes; parochial school supported by Erasmus Smith funds aflords excellent education for lower 
 classes, but no provision for clerks, land-stewards, and middle classes not requiring classics, 6577. 
 
 Voung, Joseph, merchant, Londonderry : 
 
 Evidence of Sir Rohert Alex. Ferguson, Bart, M.r. : — Large sum of money left by Mr. Young for 
 an endowed school for girls ; there being a number of life interests, doubtful whether there are 
 funds in hand for the purpose ; but no steps vet taken to render the bequest available, 11021-5. 
 Vol. II. ' 4 G
 
 590 
 
 ENDOWED SCHOOLS, IREL^VND, COMMISSION. 
 
 Index of COUNTIES, and TOWNS in each County, in which Public Inquiries respecting 
 the Schools and P^ndowments in the County have been held by the Commissioners ; 
 and Dates of such Inquiries. 
 
 
 Town 
 
 Dates 
 
 References. 
 
 Province and Countv. 
 
 at "which Public Inquiry 
 was hold. 
 
 of Public Meetings, 
 
 Vol. and 
 Pago. 
 
 No. of 
 Question. 
 
 T/EINSTEB. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Carlow 
 
 Carlow, ..... 
 
 14 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 532 
 
 1 
 
 ■ 
 
 
 '22 October, 1855 . 
 
 1. 712 
 
 i.'ioes 
 
 
 
 25 October, 1855, . 
 
 1.759 
 
 14018 
 
 
 
 2 November, 1855, 
 
 1.831 
 
 15911 
 
 
 Dublin, ..... 
 
 ■^ 7 November, 1855, 
 
 I. 794 
 
 14828 
 
 
 
 11 April, 185C, 
 
 n. 133 
 
 21902 
 
 
 
 12 April, I85G, 
 
 u. 159 
 
 22348 
 
 
 
 .10 November, 1856, 
 
 II. 249 
 
 23462 
 
 
 
 6 December, 1855, 
 
 n. 1 
 
 19062 
 
 
 
 7 December, 1855, 
 
 n. 18 
 
 19567 
 
 
 
 22 December, 1855, 
 
 n. 119 
 
 21521 
 
 
 Dublin (Erasmus Smith Board), 
 
 <i 14 JMay, 1856, 
 
 n. 180 
 
 22694 
 
 
 
 15 Mav, 1856, 
 
 II. 202 
 
 22945 
 
 Dublin; andCo.ofCityofDjiblin,- 
 
 » 
 
 lONovembei-, 1856, 
 
 n. 266 
 
 23793 
 
 
 
 .19 November, 1856, 
 
 II. 277 
 
 23987 
 
 
 
 '17 December, 1855, 
 
 II. 30 
 
 19707 
 
 9 
 
 Dublin (Incoi-poratcd Society, 
 &c.) 
 
 18 December, 1855, 
 ■^ 19 December, 1855, 
 
 II. 54 
 
 n. 77 
 
 20314 
 207tJ2 
 
 22 December, 1855, 
 [31 Jlay, 1856,. 
 
 II. 117 
 
 21473 
 
 
 
 II. 228 
 
 23207 
 
 
 
 f 20 December,, 1855, 
 
 n. 93 
 
 21078 
 
 
 DubUu (Clai-e-street Board of 
 
 J 10 November, 1856, 
 
 ^ 11 November, 1856, 
 
 _19 November, 1856, 
 
 n. 253 
 
 23549 
 
 
 Education), . ' . 
 
 II. 268 
 
 23794 
 
 
 
 II. 277 
 
 23986 
 
 
 Dublin (Board of Charitable 1 
 Donations and Bequests), J 
 
 15 May, 1856, 
 
 II. 223 
 
 23166 
 
 Kildarc, 
 
 Naas, 
 
 30 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 746 
 
 13789 
 
 Kilkenny ; and Co. of City of Kil- 
 
 Kilkenny, .... 
 
 15 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 6 
 
 84 
 
 kenny, 
 
 
 
 
 
 King's, 
 
 Tullamore, . 
 
 8 September, 1855, 
 
 I. 252 
 
 5228 
 
 Longford, ..... 
 
 Longford, .... 
 
 25 September, 1855, 
 
 I. S67 
 
 7460 
 
 Louth, ..... 
 
 Dundalk, .... 
 
 17 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 676 
 
 12232 
 
 Co. of Town of Drogheda, ) 
 Meat!], . . . . \ 
 
 Navan, ..... 
 
 19 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 687 
 
 12409 
 
 Queen's, 
 
 Maryborough, .... 
 
 7 September, 1855, 
 
 1.223 
 
 4736 
 
 Westmeath, .... 
 
 Mullingar, .... 
 
 26 October, 1855, . 
 
 1. 713 
 
 1.3089 
 
 Wexford, 
 
 Wexford, .... 
 
 18 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 28 
 
 421 
 
 Wicklow, 
 
 Wicklow, .... 
 
 29 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 738 
 
 13676 
 
 Ulster. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Antrim, ..... 
 
 Belfast 
 
 8 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 532 
 
 10300 
 
 Armagli, ..... 
 
 Armagli, ..... 
 
 2 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 4.59 
 
 9306 
 
 Cavan, ..... 
 
 Cavan, 
 
 26 September, 1855, 
 
 I. 380 
 
 7786 
 
 Donegal 
 
 Lifford, 
 
 12 October, 1855, . 
 
 1.594 
 
 .11103 
 
 Down, 
 
 Downpatrick, . 
 
 f 5 October, 1855, . 
 \ 17 December, 1855, 
 
 I. 506 
 
 9699 
 
 
 (Inquiry continued in Dublin,) 
 
 II. 52 
 
 20305 
 
 Fermanagh, .... 
 
 Enniskillen, .... 
 
 15 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 650 
 
 11880 
 
 
 
 ( 11 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 56 
 
 10556 
 
 Londonderry, .... 
 
 Londonderry, .... 
 
 ) 24 September, 1856, 
 
 II. 315 
 
 - 
 
 
 
 (31 October, 1856, . 
 
 II. 307 
 
 - 
 
 Monaghan, 
 
 Monaghan, .... 
 
 ] 28 September, 1855, 
 \ 29 September, 1855, 
 
 I. 412 
 I. 442 
 
 8276 
 8917 
 
 Tyrone, 
 
 Omagh, 
 
 12 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 617 
 
 11452 
 
 
 Camus School, 
 
 11 October, 1855, . 
 
 I. 565 
 
 10556 
 
 CoNNAUGHT. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Galway ; and Co. of Town of 
 
 Galway, 
 
 17 September, 1855, 
 
 1.264 
 
 5405 
 
 Galway, 
 
 (Inquiry continued in Dublin,) 
 
 f 17 December, 1855, 
 \ 15 May. 1856, 
 
 II. 42 
 II. 218 
 
 20110 
 23 1 20 
 
 Leitrim, ..... 
 
 ( 'arrick-on-Shannon, 
 
 22 Sei)'tember, 1855, 
 
 1.327 
 
 6804 
 
 Mayo, 
 
 Castlebar, .... 
 
 19 September, 1855, 
 
 I. 294 
 
 6075 
 
 Roscommon, . . . . 
 
 Roscommon, .... 
 
 24 September, J8')5, 
 
 1. 340 
 
 7(107 
 
 Sligo, 
 
 Sligo 
 
 21 September, 1855, 
 
 1. 306 
 
 6305 
 
 MUNSTEB. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Clare 
 
 Ennis, ..... 
 
 4 Seplen\ber, 1855, 
 
 I. 177 
 
 3810 
 
 Cork ; and Co. of City of Cork, 
 
 Cork 
 
 f 24 August, 1855 . 
 125 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 66 
 
 I. 94 
 
 1140 
 1694 
 
 
 
 1 13 Dicember, 1855. 
 ( 14 Decemlier, 1855, 
 
 1.914 
 
 17601 
 
 
 Midleton, .... 
 
 I. 969 
 
 18697 
 
 Kerry, 
 
 Tralce, 
 
 30 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 117 
 
 2319 
 
 
 
 ( 1 September, 185,5, 
 
 I. 122 
 
 2397 
 
 Limerick ; and Co. of City of 
 
 Limerick, .... 
 
 } 3 Se|)l ember, IK.5,5, 
 
 I. 1.52 
 
 3208 
 
 Limerick, 
 
 
 ( 5 September, 1655, 
 
 I. -20 1 
 
 4146 
 
 Tipperary, 
 
 Clonmel, 
 
 21 August, I8.i5, 
 
 I. 40 
 
 654 
 
 
 
 '16 August, 1855, . 
 
 I. 10 
 
 1.52 
 
 
 
 17 August, 1855, 1 
 20 August, 1855, 1 
 
 I. 25 
 1. 801 
 
 383 
 IC.I.'i'i 
 
 Watcrford ; and Co. of City of 
 
 Watcrford, .... 
 
 I. 33 540 
 
 Waterford, 
 
 
 1.876 '. J 0775 
 
 
 
 .11 December, 185.5, 
 
 I. 8yo 17138
 
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 (Y7?/ ..xN^-IIKKARYC/: . 
 
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