IRLF OF THE UNIVERSITY -> OF ;dtm>Rj&> ,Ja^ I j$ f '-?7ut k> get that warrant? A. No, sir. Q. You went to get the warrant on the 30th day of June, and so the jurat was attached on the 30th of June, and that is all there is to it? 46 A. Yes, sir. Q. As to whether or not this money has been paid back you say you do not know? A. No, sir. Q. You took no notice of that that was an agreement between Colonel Tipton and myself? A. No, sir; if I ever knew of it at all I don't remember it. Q. You don't know whose signature that is to the jurat, do you? A. I can't tell, because yours and Charlie Jacobson's signa- tures are very similar. They are very much alike. Q. You don't know whose that is? A. No, sir. Q. But the jurat must have been attached before you got the warrant on the 30th day of June? A. Yes, sir. Q. Hence the difference between the dates of the jurat and the voucher? A. Yes, sir. We just merely enter the voucher as cash until we get the warrant from the Auditor. Q. (T3y Committee) Mr. Yates, have you any idea for what purpose that money was used? A. Voucher states expenses to Fayetteville. Q. TT3y Mr. Whitley) Mr. Yates, do you remember whether It is the custom when one of these vouchers are turned in to you and you receive it as so much cash, or it is held as so much" cash, and if that had no jurat at the time you received it that you took it to the Auditor in the absence of the person who signed that jurat I mean in the absence of the person who signed the voucher, the Auditor attaches his jurat. Now, I don't know whether yon understand that question or not. When you received that voucher from Governor Davis and placed it in your office as so much money and let him have $35 on it, that voucher was signed by Governor Davis or someone for him, at that time, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then has it been the custom at any time when you would take a voucher to the Auditor, that he would attach his jurat in the absence of the person who signed it? In other words, is it not possible that the Governor signed that voucher when you received ft from him and you just took it to the Auditor and h* 47 made ml attached his jurat then in the absence of the Governor who signed it? A. I can't say. Q. Do you know that Governor Davis was present when the Auditor's jurat was attached to that voucher or not? A. I don't think he was. Q. Then the Governor was not there and the jurat was attached for him, in the Governor's absence, by the Auditor you think that is the way ft occurred? A. I think that is it. Yes. sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Do you say that the Auditor put that jurat to that claim there in the absence of the Governor? Do you say fhat the Auditor certified to that claim in the absence of the debtor? A. I don't remember that. I said I didn't remember how that was done. Q. Do you remember that you presented the voucher at all? A. I don't remember, General, whether I presented it or some- one else in the office presentd it. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Can you produce the books of record and disclose the information for the Attorney General? A. I didn't keep any record. It stayed in there, and we just carried it as currency until we got the warrant. Carried it as so much money until we got the warrant. Q. No record to disclose that? A. Ko, sir. GOVERNOR DAVIS, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Governor Davis This voucher, the body of it and the signature, is written in my handwriting I mean this down to here (indicated on voucher), June 14, 1902. To Jeff Davis to expenses to Fayette- ville commencement, $35; contingent fund, expenses of the Gov- ernor's office; signed, Jeff Davis;" that is in my handwriting. I took this voucher to the Treasurer's office, just as I stated last night, and he paid me $35. I can very readily see how Mr. Yates car- ried this as so much cash and then went to the Auditor's office with the voucher and got a warrant. That jurat is made out in Mr. Jacobson's handwriting. Mr. Chairman, I never swore to a voucher or anything at the Auditor's office. The jurat is made out in Mr. Jacobson's handwriting. That is just on the first of the month 48 * when the Treasurer wants the warrant. Mr. Colquitt never swore me to a thing in his life, did you Mr. Colquitt? Colonel Colquitt No, sir. Governor Davis I never drew my salary in my life; my private secretary attends to that. Now my recollection is, I can't say pos- itively, but my recollection, if it serves me right, is that the com- mencement at Fayetteville began on Saturday. I know the Bacca- laureate sermon was preached on Sunday. I got there on Monday, which my recollection serves me was the 17th day of June. That money was paid me, and I went to Fayetteville, as it is the custom, why the secretary of the board paid me my expenses, and it was simply a mistake between Colonel Tipton and myself, as explained here last night. Q. (By Committee) That transaction was probably in this way: you knew you would be paid your expenses when you got there A. Yes, sir, but I didn't have any money. I haven't got car fare tonight, and if you will loan me five cents I will be obliged to you. Q. You went to the Treasurer with the voucher and asked him to let you have $35? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he probably carried that forward until the end of the month? A. I understand it as I have stated it. Q. Then you sent Charlie Jacobson and he attached the jurat to it; I flunk that is the way it occurred. A. Yes, sir. I know when I went to Fayetteville that Mr. Marrs paid me back my expenses, everything itemized and sworn to they do things straight up there. And if you will go to Fay- etteville you will find another account sworn to up there of expenses paid to me. This was nothing but between Colonel Tipton and myself. Q. Now in June, 1901, I suppose the same thing is true, only before you paid back and the Auditor's books show it. A. There never was anything to it. Governor Jones Q. (By F. L. McCain, Esq.) Governor, then as a matter of fact you don't know whether Colonel Tipton or anybody else ever covered or paid that $35 back into the Treasury or not? A. All I know I have told you about it.. He said he would and he afterwards told me hat he had, and that is all I know. Q. Don't you know if it had been deducted out of your salary or not? A. Mr. Jacobson comes down and draws my salary, brings it back and hands it to me and I put it in my pocket. Sometimes I count it and sometimes I don't. Q. Do you mean to say that taking $35 out of your salary in one month would not attract your attention? A. I don't say that. I say this: that Mr. Jacobson might have told me; I don't say that it was not done; I don't say that the $35 was not deducted or was. If it had been most likely he would have told me and I have forgotten it; I can't remember every little detail. $35 deducted out of my salary would certainly attract my attention. Q. Does Charlie Jr.cobson keep your bank account, or do you keep it? A. Ke keeps it. He is authorized to draw on my bank account whenever I have one. Q. Well, Governor, when you testify before this committee that this money had been paid back, deducted at the end of the month from your salary you had drawn it twice, both from the contingent fund in the State Treasurer's office and from the board at Fayetteville you did not know whether or not you have, do you? A. Whether I have what? Q. Got that money and paid it back A. Mr. McCain, I have stated just as distinctly as the English language could be made, that I understood that it had been done. I understood that that money had been paid back. I know that I asked Colonel Tipton about it, and I know that Colonel Tipton told me that he would do it; and 1 know that after the first of the month I asked Colonel Tipton if he had done it and he told me that he had. Do you understand that? Q. That leaves the matter then that you say you don't know whether you got the $35 or whether you paid it back, or whether or not it was deducted from your salary? A. I know that I got the $35 out of my contingent fund. I know that I got it at Fayetteville. I know that I instructed Colonel Tipton to take it out of my salary. I know he said he would, and I know tHat he said he had, and I think that ends that. Q. When did he tell you he had done it? A. Shortly after the first of the month. 50 Q. When did ycu get the money? A. I presume on the date of the voucher, which was on the 14th. I cannot say positively, but thereabout. Q. What month was it that Colonel Tipton told you that he had deducted it? A. In July following. Q. In July following? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it not a fact that the German National Bank collected you: salary for that month? For the month of June? A. Really, I don't know that they have collected anything for me. If they did I have forgotten it. Q. Hadn't you previously transferred this thing to the bank transferred the entire amount of your monthly salary for June? A. I don't know. I know this: I can give you the whole transaction about this Q. Didn't you transfer on the 6th day of June your saUary for the month of June? A. I can't say because I can't remember dates that well. But I know that I have had a little bank account with the Bank of Prescott I don't know that that is the style of the bank, but it is the bank there which Mr. Gordon is cashier of. I would send him my voucher did for several months send him my voucher and he would permit me to draw against my voucher, and at the end of the month he would collect my salary and credit the account with it. Q. You had a bank account there? A. I said that when I sent him my voucher for $250 he would let me draw against that. Q. How was that, as a deposit you made? A. I simply sent him my voucher, but I don't know whether I did for the month of June or not. Q. Then, Governor Davis, the bank books will show whether you got your entire salary for that month or not? A. Mr. McCain, I have explained that I understood that that money had been paid back. You certainly cannot understand the English language. Q. I will admit, Governor, that I am not always quite as clear as I should be. I ask you again if you make any 'contention now that you haven't got that $35 twice? A. I make this contention and in this manner: that when I wanted to go to Fayetteville I needed the money to pay my expenses; I didn't have any, and I drew out of my contingent fund |35 when I went to Fayetteville. When I got to Fayetteville the secretary of the board paid me my expenses on that trip, which was itemized. That money I brought back with me, of course. Q. And, Governor, did you turn that money back to the State Treasurer? Q. (Interrupting) Did you not at the time you drew that voucher, as a lawyer and Governor of the State, know that you had no right to do it? A. No, sir. I did have that right. Q. I think the law does not allow you to do that A. I know I did have the right. I know exactly what I had a right to do. Q. Don't you know, Governor Davis, and didn't you know at that time, that the State Treasurer had no right to loan anybody the State funds, not even the Governor of the State? A. He wasn't loaning any funds. I drew it, and I say I had a right to do it; and if you had an allowance or contingent fund like the Governor of the State you could do it yourself Q. Don't .you know that an appropriation was made to pay the expenses of the Board of Trustees of the Arkansas State University, and that it was made for that purpose, and that when you went to Fayetteville that you would draw your expenses; that it was not contemplated that the contingent fund was set aside to you by the General Assembly of the State for the purpose A. I differ with you about the law of course you are a very fine lawyer Q. Do you mean to say that that is not a contingent expense or it was? A. I mean to say that it was a contingent expense. And I mean to say that it ought to have been refunded, and I mean to say that I thought it was refunded. Q. (By ) That was a charge and you had a perfect right to draw for it out of your contingent fund, and you stated to the Treasurer when he let you have it that you wanted him to deduct it out of your salary? A. Yes, sir. Q. Because you didn't have the money A. Yes, sir. Q. And you used it in going to Fayetteville A. Yes, sir. 52 Q. As a matter of fact you did collect it from the State Treas- urer and also from the secretary of the board ? A. I did, and as a matter of fact I told Mr. Tipton to take it out of my salary, and as a matter of fact he told me he had done so. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Governor Davis, why was it if what you say is true, that you assigned your salary to Mr. Gordon of Prescott, or to whatever bank he is in, and that you knew at the time that you had assigned it to him I presume that you meant to carry out that assignment that you had made to him A. I did not make an assignment of it; I just sent it down there and he permitted me to draw against it Q. Why was it, if you knew that at the time you had p^^ed. your salary to Mr. Gordon of Prescott A. For what month Q. June and several months prior to that A. I don't know what month Q. What did you say? A. I said I didn't know what month it was. I said I didn't .mow what month it was I assigned my salary to Mr. Gordon. I said I sent Mr. Gordon my voucher several months and he per- mitted me to draw against my voucher and at the end of the month he sent it to the Auditor's office and got the money for the month; that is what he did. Q. Why did you send it to Mr. Gordon? A. Because I wanted to. Q. Why did you want to? A. Simply because I preferred to do business with Mr. Gordon to other people. If you had been running a bank probably I would have sent it to you. Q. Governor Davis, are you willing to produce your bank boofc with the Bank of Prescott, and to join in a request to the bank to have Mr. Gordon here as a witness, or to have the bank books? A. I am willing to do anything that the committee wants done: that is sensible. Q. Then will you join me in a request A. I won't join you in anything. Q. In order that we may get the bank books, in order to see A. You can't get anything I have; if the committee wants my books they are open to them but not to you, unless it desires it. Q. Then as I understand, you decline to join with me in a. request to the committee to subpoena Mr. Gordon? A. The committee can get anything they want. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Chairman, I wish to ask the Gov- ernor, through the chair, a question I wish to ask the Governor if it is true that he did assign his June salary or transfer it to the Prescott bank for which it was to collect, and the Treasurer in July, as he says told him that he had deducted that $35 out of his salary, that he did not know it was not true there was a mistake about it? Do you understand the question? A. Well, I am sorry to say, sir, I do not. Stenographer reads question I wish to ask the Governor if it is true that he did assign his June salary A. I will answer part of it at a time. I don't know whether I assigned the June salary or not. It was not an assignment; it was simply a deposit of that voucher there with a privilege of draw- ing on it. The bank did not consider that it owned it, but that it was simply to be deposited there as my private funds; but it was not an assignment of the voucher, and it is not an assignment. It was simply to secure Mr. Gordon and allow me to draw to that amount. I did not consider that this was an assignment; it was simply deposited as security and by courtesy, the bank allowed me to draw to that extent. Q. I will repeat it, if it is true that you deposited and trans- ferred your voucher for that June salary to the Prescott bank, and that it was collected by that bank or the German National Bank, then if Tipton told you in July, as you say, that he had deducted it out of your salary the June salary do you not know now when he told you that he had deducted that $35 that you was mis- taken about it or that it was not true? A. That question is entirely hypothetical. In the first place, I don't know anything whatever as to whether I deposited my June salary, or my voucher for my June salary rather, or not with the Bank of Prescott; not knowing that I cannot answer the balance of the question. Q. (By F. L. McCain) Governor, how do you explain the fact that in drawing upon your contingent fund that you not only have one mistake of that Kind, but that you have some two or three? A. That is a matter of argument, Mr. McCain, that should come more in an argument before the committee, not as a matter of testimony. 54 Q. I will ask you then if that is the closing instance of that account? A. The record speaks for itself, sir. Colonel Murphy At this time I would like for the Chairman to have the Auditor bring the voucher for the Governor's general salary. COLONEL J. C. COLQUITT, being recalled, deposes and tes- tifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Colonel Colquitt, look at that voucher and read the order and the endorsements on it. Colonel Colquitt here produces a paper. Q. Colonel, what is that which you have in your hand? A. Voucher for the Governor's June salary, 1902. Q. Please read it. A. Dated, "Office of the Governor, Little Rock, 6-30-19(T2; -State of Arkansas, to Jeff Davis, for salary June, 1902, $250. I hereby certify that the above account is correct and payable out of the appropriation to pay salaries of the Governor of Arkansas. (Signed) Jeff Davis, by Charles Jacobson. Received warrant from the Auditor; Treasurer's office, Little Rock, on this the - - day of , 190 , O. B. Gordon, treasurer, and O. B. Gordon, cashier/' That was No. 1861. Jeff Davis, $250, to be paid out of appropria- tion for the Governor's salary; filed and warrant issued on the day it was signed herein. It was filed on July 2, and the warrant issued on that date. Q. To whom was the warrant delivered? A. To the collector of the German National Bank. However, [ don't know; I only say that. Q. What is the endorsement on it? A. I just see the stamp of the German National Bank. Q. Read it. A. It has this entry on the back: "Pay to the German National Bank, or order. Signed, Nevada County Bank, Prescott, Ark., O. B. Gordon, cashier," and that is the only evidence. I don't know who collected it. It is receipted by Mr. Gordon and transferred, or rather this is transferred to the German National Bank for col- lection, I suppose, just from the stamp on it; that is all the evidence I have of it. The receipt was by Mr. Gordon, however, r,f Prescott 50 Q. When you read the face of it did you read the stamp? A. No, sir. Q. Please read the stamp on the face of the voucher. A. '^Nevada County Bank, No. 282, Prescott, Ark." Q. Does that check show to whom the warrant was delivered? A. No, sir; just receipted on that voucher. The warrant was not drawn; but of course on the presentation of the voucher Q. You say there is just a receipt for the warrant on that voucher? A. Yes, sir. Further taking of testimony adjourned to Monday evening at 7:30 o'clock p. m. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Means Committee ON flonday, February 23, 1903 INDEX. MR. H. C. TIPTON. MR. R. H. McNAIR. 58- COLONEL H. C. TIPTON Mr. Chairman, in answer to a ques- tion that Colonel Murphy asked me as to how I paid that $35 to the Governor, I answered from recollection from mem'ory, and I said on the Auditor's warrant, but I find on investigation that I am mistaken in that, and that I paid it on the Governor's voucher on his contingent fund. R. H. McNAIR, on oath, being by the chairman of the com- mittee first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. Merriman) State your name in full, please? A. R. H. McNair. Q. What business are you engaged in Mr. McNair? A. Coal business. Q. Were you engaged in the coal business in the winters of 1901 and 1902? A. Yes, sir. Q. In whose employ were you? A. Mr. Bunch. Q. Mr. Bunch; what is the name of the firm? A. T. H. Bunch Coal Company. Q. I will ask you if during those winters, 1901 and 1902, the T. H. Bunch Coal Company furnished or was furnishing coal to the State Institutions? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know who made the contract with the State offi- cial; in other words, did you make it? A. Why, I probably put a bid in. Q. Previous to drawing up that bid, I will ask you if you had any conversation with the purchasing agen of the State Charitable Institutions with reference to the coal contract? A. Not that I remember of. Q. EIJ you have any conversation with any of the State officials? (No answer.) Q. I will ask you if you had any conversation with any State official or any purchasing agent of the State in reference to the contract before the contract was made or the bid was accepted? A. No, unless it was to get information about how the bid hould be put in. 59 Q. I will ask you if during the winters of 1901 and 1902, or of 1901 or 1902, or both, if the T. H. Bunch Coal Company fur- nished coal for the Governor's and Purchasing Agent's private use? A. I delivered some coal to the Governor. Q. I will ask you if it was paid for by the Governor? A. It is not yet. Q. Has the bill been presented? A. Yes, sir. Q. The bill has been presented. Did you deliver any to the Purchasing Agent, Mr. Page? A. Yes, sir. Q. Has that been paid for? A. No, sir. Q. What years was that delivered in? A. In the winter of 1901 and 1902. Q. And that that was delivered in the winter of 1901 has not yet been paid for? A. Well, it was the wintor of 1901 and 1902. Q. Well, it has not been paid for? A. No, sir. Q. How much was it, if you can remember; about how much? A. Well, I believe between fifteen and twenty tons was delivered to the Governor; I don't remember just the number of pounds. Q. Where was it delivered? A. To his residence. Q. Was the bill presented for the same? A. Yes, sir. Q. To whom was the bill made out to? A. Governor Davis. Q. How did you come to deliver that coal; why did you deliver it to his residence? A. Wliy, it was ordered. Q. By whom? A. Well, I can't say that. It was ordered over the telephone to the best of my recollection. Q. Is it not a fact that that coal was delivered to the Gov- ernor by the advice and agreement with him between him and yourself, that it was to be furnished to him gratuitous? A. No, sir. 60 Q. You never had a conversation of that character? A. No, sir. Q. Either for the ar 1901 or 1902? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever have any such conversation that in con- sideration of your company getting the contract, or of your bid being accepted, that he should be furnished this coal free? A. No, sir. Q. Have you never made a statement to that effect? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Is Governor Davis a member of the Board of Charities? A. Not that I know of. Q. Well was he a party to the contract or a member of the board to accept bids from your company for the benefit of the Charitable Institutions? A. Not that I know of. Q. Well then if he is not a member of that board he cannot be a party to the contract could he? A. I don't know anything about it. Q. You know that he is not a member of the board? A. No, sir. Q. I suppose you have other customers besides Governor Davis who have failed to pay you within a year's time, have you not? A. Oh, yes. Q. There are other people who do not settle their bills just as prompt or when you demand it? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Holland) You say you presented the bill, but you did not say when; when did you present the bill for the coal to the Governor? A. During the winter of 1901 and 1902. Q. Send it when the coal was delivered? A. I don't know; we usually made out bills every month, and the collector took them. Q. Do you know how many times that bill was presented? A. No, sir; I can't say. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) That coal that you testify you delivered at the Governor's place, was that charged on the books? A. Why (No further answer. Witness interrupted.) 61 Q. I asked you if that was charged on your books to Gov- ernor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. When was the entry made on your books? A. Why, 1 believe the first coal was delivered during the first part of Octotor. Q. 1901? A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you if the charges for that coal that was deliv- ered to Governor Davis' residence in 1901 were made at the time of the delivery of the coal? A. Yes, sir. We have tickets dated for each load of coal as it is sent out on that date. Q. Then when the ticket came in it was charged up to him on the books of the company? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know that it is there on your books or not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you seen the entry? A. I have looked over it in a general way; yes, sir. Q. I will ask you to state if it is charged up to Governor Davis on your books? A. Yes, sir. Q. But it has not been paid for? A. No, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You say it was charged at the time you delivered the coal? A. Yes. sir. Q. Who made the charge? A. Well, I can't say; it was charged up in the regular routine? Q. Who is your bookkeeper? A. Well, I have a gentleman by the name of Wolf; he has been with me only a few weeks. Q. Who is the Purchasing Agent for the Charitable Board? A. I suppose Mr. John Page is. Q. Why don't you know, Mr. McNair? A. Yes. sir. Q. Why do you say that you suppose he is then. Don't you know that he is the Purchasing Agent and was then? A. Mr. Page? 62 Q. Mr. John H. Page? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have any talk with Mr. Page? A. About this Q. Furnishing of this coal? A. Yes, sir. Q. What did he say to you about it? Now, just go ahead and tell the whole thing without forcing me to ask you any fur- ther questions, and get through with it. You know what it is, so don't force me to ask you any further questions about it. A. He simply asked me if I could furnish the Governor coal; I can't say when he asked me, but it was sometime in the fall or near the first part of October. We were then putting coal in at the State Institutions; had been for several weeks, and as I remember the weather was getting so people wanted coal; and he asked me if I would furnish the Governor coal at the same price that the State was getting it, and I told him that I couldn't do it because the Governor used hard coal and the State was using soft coal, and the hard coal was more expensive. * Q. Well, proceed. A. I finally agreed to make a proportionate reduction for the nard coal that was made for the soft coal for the State. Q. Well, proceed with your statement. A. That is all the conversation I had with him at that time. Q. What did you do in consequence of that conversation; just go through the whole thing? A. I charged the coal up at a reduced price. The entries are that way on the books. Q. Did Mr. Page say anything to you about his own coal? A. No, sir. Q. Did you furnish him coal? A. I delivered him some coal. Q. At the same price you sold to the Charitable Institutions? A. No. sir. Q. How much less did you sell it to the Charitable Institu- tions than you sold it to your private customers, per ton? A. Well, I don't remember just now. Q. Give us the best idea you can; whether it was a dollar less or two dollars less or how much? A. In the neighborhood of a dollar. 63- Q. You say the bills were sent? A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you know how many times they were sent? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Did you quit sending them? A. Yes. sir. Q. On what ground, or on whose request did you cease to present them? A. I stopped presenting Governor Davis' bill because Mr. Page -asked that I do not present it any more. Q. Did you present it any more? A. I did not present it, and I do not think it was presented any more. Q. Well, did Mr. Page or not tell you at the same time that you were expected to furnish him and the Governor coal free? A. No, sir; I can't say that he ever did. Q. Well, when did you quit presenting these bills, or did you ver do it? A. I haven't presented it this year. Q. Well, did you quit before this year begun, presenting it? A. I think so. I think we stopped presenting it about the first of June last. Q. Is it or is it not a fact that you nave- never collected a dollar for coal furnished either the Purchasing Agent or to the Governor? A. No, I can't say that, because I have collected some. Q. When did you collect it? A. There was some delivered about the commencement of this year that has been paid for. Q. That is since you were withdrawn the privilege of furnish- ing coal under your contract? A. I didn't have a contract for this year. Q. This is for what you have furnished since your contract with the Charitable Institutions went out of effect? A. Yes, sir. Q. While you have furnished coal to the Charitable Institu- tions, did you ever get pay for a tori of coal or for a dollar's worth of coal furnished to either Mr. Page or to Governor Davis? A. I can't tell, but I would not like to say positively unless I could look at the books. 64 Q. Now Mr. McNair, don't you know whether you have or i>ot? A. 1 know I never got any from Governor Davis, unless maybe we sent some C. O. D., or something like that, that was paid for. I know there is a bill there against him now. Q. Well, when Mr. Page told you not to present the bill any more didn't you know and understand that you were not sup- posed to get paid for that coal; that it was to go free; did you or not speak of it? A. I complied with his request. Q. Have you presented that bill since that request was made? A. I haven't; no, sir. Q. Has the company presented it? A. I don't think so. Q. Did Governor Davis and Mr. Page or not get their coal free from you during that contract; I mean while you were fur- nishing coal under that contract to the Charitable Institutions? A. Well, they got coal that I expected pay for at the time. Q. Did they or did they not get free coal, and did not Mr. Page request you not to present his bill any more, and you did not? A. Colonel, Mr. Page never requested me not to present his bill. Q. Well, after he requested you not to present the Governor's bill, did you ever demand pay for it at any time? A. No, sir. Q. Now you had a conversation with Mr. Page over the tele- phone on the 12th, did you not? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he told you that the Attorney General was going to make a charge of that matter, and state that you had delivered him and the Governor free coal, didn't he? A. He said that you were going to say something about it. Q. And didn't he ask you to deny it or to say that you did not, or did he? A. He asked me to make a denial of some such a charge; yes, sir. Q. And didn't you previously tell Mr. Joe Moore and Mr. Taylor about that? That you furnished that coal free? A. I don't think I said it in just those words. I don't remem- ber how I said it We did probably talk about it. 65 Q. Did you not tell them, or one of them, or both, that Mr. Page told you that you would be expected to furnish him and the Governor coal and render no bill for it? A. No, sir; I can't say that I said that, because I never said it. I may have said something about their having coal that had cot been paid for, but I didn't say that I Q. Did you or not use the expression that they had had free coal? A. I may have said it in those words; I can't say positively. Q. Now did or didn't Mr. Page, on the 12th, the date of the telephone communication between you and him, tell you that he would rather pay for the Governor's coal and his own too than to have any trouble about it? A. He said something like that. Q. Just answer the question, if he said that. A. I can't say that he said it in those words. Q. But he did say that he would rather pay for the coal A. To pay for the coal than what? Q. Than to have any trouble about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he say for his and the Governor's too? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you take the money, or did he pay for it? A. No, sir. Q. What did you tell him when he said that? A. I don't remember. Colonel. Q. Mr. McNair, you did have a conversation about the 6th of February with both Mr. Taylor and Mr. Moore didn't you, about this matter? A. Well, I don't know when it was. It was mentioned. Q. Along about that time? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well ,after you had that conversation with them, and after you told them that you telephoned to them and asked them to not mention it, didn't you? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. You didn't ask them not to say anything about it? A. No, sir; they called me up and told me that they had reported it. Testimony 3. Q. Didn't you ask them to not say anything about it Q. (By Mr. Merriman, interrupting) That they had reported it to Colonel Murphy? A. Whatever it was they had reported it to Mr. Mun:liy, yes, sir. Q. Did you ask them not to mention it? A. I told them that I would rather not be brought into public prominence. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. McNair, now you say that you never furnished me any free coal in your life, don't you? A. I never furnished you with any coal that I did not expect pay for at the time I delivered it. Q. Did you ever furnish me any coal that should be used as a basis for securing a contract to furnish coi<3 pontract before it was presented that day? 91 A. No, sir; no member of the board had ever seen it before I presented it. Mr. Murphy had seen the original draft a day or two before; but I had redrafted it and made some alterations, and he had not seen it after it was redrafted. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) When you presented the contract to Governor Davis, was it after the other members of the board had signed it or before? A. I think that two members of the board had signed it in the office of the Secretary of the State, leaving a blank space for his signature at the top. Q. Do you remember when the board adjourned, was that about the time the contract was sign-sd? A. I was not present when the board adjourned. I went in ta the Secretary of State's office at the meeting of the board and went on back to my office and was afterwards notified that that propo- sition had been accepted and then came over to the Secretary of State's office for the purpose of closing it up. Q. That was when the Governor told you that the owners of the property were likely to get into trouble by injunction proceedings? A. The Governor called me up over the telephone either that evening or the next morning. Q. After his refusal to sign the contract? A. I think so; yes, sir. GEORGE W. MURPHY, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Your name is George W. Murphy? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are the Attorney General of the State? A. Yes, sir. Q. As such are you a member of the Penitentiary Board? A. I am. Q. Were you at the time of the purchase of the Cummins place? A. I was. Q. Please make your statement in your own language of what you know concerning the purchase of that place? A. The Governor in his message says that a majority of the board were pledged about twelve months before this purchase to the purchase of the Beakley farm. If such is the case I know nothing of it. If I am counted amongst the majority, then that was not the case. I admit that I was favorably inclined towards the Beakley farm, having never seen it in wet weather. There was a 92 lake upon it that would be advantageous and furnish facilities for sewerage and a drainage and a basin for water, but I never had any intention of purchasing it after I learned that a large part of it was wet and was not fit and openly declared that I would not. I had seen it only in the summer time. No proposition was ever made to purchase that farm by any member of the board, knowing the wet character of it, although a large part of the land was above the average. Consideration was postponed and the only propositions to purchase a farm after that at all began some eight, eleven or twelve months afterwards, was that of the Governor to purchase the Altheimer and Haywood farm. The majority of the board, because that was wet land, and had no facilities or means of drainage, refused to join in the purchase, and there was where the first wrang- ling that occurred in the board about the purchase of a farm; and the Governor proceeded to take them to task about it. There was no wrangling over the Beakley farm at all. Some time after that, some months, or several months, Mr. Miller came into my office, W. H. Miller, whom I understand to be the son-in-law of Mr. Edward Urquhart, and expressed a desire to put in a proposition to sell the Cummins and Goree or Maple Grove plantations. I asked him a good deal about it. where it was situated, and so on, and asked him his price, and he told me it was $150,000. He told me that he had seen several members of the board, and he said he had seen the Governor, and that the Governor told him that he thought the Altheimer place was the one to be bought; the only suitable place for a convict farm, but if he had an offer to make around $15 an acre that he might see the other members of the board and make an offer. He again came to me and told me that he had again been to see the Governor but had not seen him but had seen his private secretary. I again asked him what was the lowest price he could sell the farm. He said at $150,000; that it paid ten per cent on that and that it was a good investment and that he was wanting to sell it on account of deficiency of labor. I stated to him that I doubted if the board would buy a farm, but if he wanted to put in a proposition to figure the matter down to the very lowest price that he would accept and not depend on dickering with the board about that, that if they bought the farm he would have to sell it for a reasonable price, and that no price that was not the lowest that he would accept under any consideration would not likely be considered reasonable. I heard no more about it until in board meeting my attention was called to the fact that he and others had put in propositions. My attention was first called to these propositions at the board meeting of September 19, 1902. Governor Davis was not present at that meeting. Judge Hill offered a resolution revoking a resolution offered that the Beakley and Altheimer farms, that were up for consideration before, restricting the consideration of the board to those farms, and the proposition of W. H. Miller to sell the Cummins and Maple Grove places in Lincoln County, and that J. E. Turpin to sell 34,000 acres near Palarm; that of E. B. Houston to sell 11,500 acres in County known as the Simms place, were read. At the following meeting on the 3d of October, all the members were present. The minutes were read embracing the propositions of Miller, Turpin and Houston, and the Governor offered a resolution, which will be found on page 320, and a resolution to receive bids or propositions to sell a convict farm, for an indefinite time, was passed. I say the Governor was present at that meeting, and I offered that resolution, and that all the minutes were read. You will find this on pages 320, and 321, of the board's record. At the following meeting on the 17th of October, 1902, as was the course, the minutes were again read; Governor Davis was present and offered another resolution reciting that as a majority of the board seemed disposed to buy a convict farm, as we were not farmers, we should appoint Captain R. R. Rice, of Varner, Lincoln County, Hon. J. Smith, of Crittenden County, and Captain T. J. Phillips of Jefferson County, farmers, who, as the resolution recites, were above the reach of impure influence and unapproachable, to select a farm for us. I contended that we had no right to delegate that authority, but that we had the oppor- tunity to follow and avail ourselves of the superior information and experience of these gentlemen or any others; and the resolution was voted down. Before that time Judge Hill and I had been and examined the farms of Houston and this farm that we afterwards purchased. That was done under a resolution with which Governor Davis was familiar, to which I have failed to call attention. And at this meeting when Governor Davis was present, and our actual expenses amounted to $8.20 were allowed as expenses incurred by us in the examination of the Cummins and Houston farms, and ex- pressly so stated in the order of allowance, and he was present at that meeting, and heard the resolution offered and heard it passed. And he WAS present at the meeting on November 7 when the minutes were read. I get down now to the meeting at which the farm was purchased, but before passing into the actions of that meeting I wish to state to the committee what was done, so far as I know, by the members of the board, in the selection of the farm, or in deter- mining which would be among the various ones offered the best the 9i most suitable one. I had gone to the Houston p'ace and from \v^at I saw at all about it I really thought, until I got through, that I would prefer that place, the description I had of it. When 1 got there and saw it I told Judge Hill that afternoon we had just as well come home, I would never give my sanction to the purchase of it; I did not think it was suitable at all. Mr. Miller was to meet us at Varner on a certain day and take us out and over his place. We went on to Varner and I really hoped that he would not meet us there; I was so disgusted with the first place we had gone to that I just felt like giving it up and so stated to Judge Hill. Mr. Miller did meet us, however, there and we went out with him. I had in the meantime heard that this place had Johnson grass upon it, and I had the idea at that time that people generally have, or generally did have, .that it practically invalidated a farm for cultivation wher-e it had taken possession of it, and more only out of a matter of co irtesy than otherwise to Mr. Miller, we went over his farm. We saw where it had been well cultivated and where partially cultivated was as fine cotton growing rig!_t up to the very edge of the Johnson grass, on it as I ever saw anywhere; it was clean and free from any trouble; and I began to consider that there might be something in his statement that the grass was not in the way really. That it could be handled as any other grass, and could be exterminated. I devoted next day to traveling over that land as best I could, and whenever I could get any old negro that was working in it to talk to I would ask him about it. I had been cautioned by Mr. Miller, or requested by him not to disclose the fact that we were con- sidering buying the place at all, as it would be difficult to get tenants, and might tend to drive the tenants away. I found that fine crops were growing upon that land; that it produced on an average a bale of cotton to the acre whenever it was worked. My observations convinced me that with labor that we could control, or that could be controlled, there would be no difficulty in culti- vating it, and I left there very favorably impressed with this farm. The place is high, and it was said to be healthful. I could see no evidence to the contrary. In passing over the black lan-.l back from the river, it was just as I had always discovered it to- be very fertile. T saw no objections to it unless that Johnson grars was an objection. I determined to investigate that further, and I did. Soire weeks afterwards, on coming up to Little Rock from Pine Bluff, I fell in with Mr. Leo Andrews, a farmer, and one of the best and most successful in the State, a man who cultivates 2.000 acres of river bottom land, and has made all of his money, I have lys understood, in that way. But yet he was in the prime cf life, not exceeding thirty-five or forty years old, doubtless, and h'j happened to suggest something to me about why we did not buy a. State convict farm. I told him that we had not been able to find a farm that suited us, or that we thought we could maintain as a convict farm, off the river, only on the bayous and back in the swamps where it was wet and could not be drained; and that while I felt if we had a farm that we thought it should be on a lake or river in order to get sewerage, and we were unable to find a farm on the Arkansas River that did not have Johnson grass on it, and I was afraid of that. "Why," he said, "you should not fear about that at all; you should not consider it; it is not in the way; you can plant that land with cotton and cultivate it for about two or three years, according to the amount on it, you give it one or two more cultivations just according to the season if it is wet or dry the first year, and that will not be in your way." Well, I made further investigation about it, and found his statement corroborated. I got an old report sent out by the Agricultural Department of the United States, in which the experience of experts along this line, from the Gulf States, where this grass prevailed, and where it was made, and I found it stated the same thing. Well, then I wrote to Captain Rice, to whom the Goverribr had proposed to refer the matter, and to Colonel Smith, and I got a letter from Rice. 1 haven't thought to bring it with me, but I can hand it to the committee. Captain Rice said that he was raised on a farm adjoining this, that he had worked it for ten years, and that :t was as healthy a place as there was on the river, and as fine a body of land as could be found in this State or elsewhere; and that the Johnson grass was not in the way. I had mentioned Johnson grass problem to him. That that ought not to be considered; it was not in the way. That we could cultivate it out of existence by planting it in cctton and cultivating it well and get rid of it in a very short time. In my letter to Captain Rice I had called his attention to the Simmons Haywood farm and the Altheimer farm were offered, but that neither one of the two tracts had sufficient cultivatable land for that purpose, and not fit for that purpose at all. He wrote me that the Cummins place and the Maple Grove place was worth one acre to two of the others at least. Colonel Smith wrote me two letters about it. He said that while he had never seen either farm I considered be wrote very intelligently indeed about them. And about the Johnson grass proposition, he said that if we could get this farm on the Arkansas River at $140,000, 96 that it would be a good bargain; would be a good investment for the State. I was invited by an old friend and an acquaintance, ani perhaps the former associate of some of these gentlemen, down in Crittenden County, Judge Martin, to visit him and spend a few days in fishing and hunting. Well, I went down in the fall, and enjoyed his hospitality for a few days. Something was said there about Johnson grass, and he said, "Why the seed, I brought here and sowed it on my farm. When I did that, it was some two or three or four years ago, they told me that it would take possession of my farm, and 'you can't get rid of it.' Why," he said, "I then conclude 1 that I would try and see if that was so, or if it couldn't b>3 exterminated, so I moved in my fences and I put my plows to going on it, and," he said, "I turned up that Johnson grass and I planted it down, and," he said, "it seems that it had loosened up the soil or fertilized it in some way. The vegetation grew up very rapidly that I planted, it out-grew what I had planted elsewhere, but," he said, "I had to work it hard; it was pretty hard work until July," and he said, "I will go with you in the morning and show you where it was." In the morning he took me out and showed me, and there wasn't a stalk of it to be seen anywhere. He claimed to have killed it out in one season, by cultivating it in that way, and I think he did, and I made up my mind then to vote for the purchase of the Cummins and Maple Grove plantations, that is, if Judge Bradford, whom I knew to be a successful farmer, who was to become a member of the board, approved of it, otherwise not, I went afterwards with members of the board and looked over it. They informed me that they had made investigations by inquirin?; such as I had done, both by letter and verbal inquiry, but probably not so extensively. Mr. Crockett and I had been talking about a farm before the offer of this farm to the State; and that if we heard that there was probably Johnson grass on it we had that idea and we just resolved then that we would not visit a farm that ha-1 Johnson grass upon it, or look at one that had it on it at all; I think that was about the conclusion we came to that is my recollection. But on going over it, his mind seemed to change about it; and I in my investigation changed my mind completely. On the morning preceding the morning of this purchase I think Colonel John M. Moore came to me with a contract, conveying by a letter a proposal to the board to sell it the Cummins and Maple Grove plantations on the terms embraced in the contract. He said to me, "I was asked by Mr. Miller to put his proposition in form and I thought the best way would be to write out a contract at his suggestion and one they 97 would be willing to make, and thinking that you would probably be called upon by the board to pay upon its terms submitted, to accompany it with a letter." Well, it contained a provision that we should pay $30,000 cash, and $50,000 on a given date, two years after- wards, and $10,000 in January, in all making up the $140,000. I told him the board could not make such a contract; that we could not buy that farm except out of the proceeds of the convict labor, and the law would not permit us to retrench upon it so far as to disable it in conducting the penitentiary; that we would have to pay expenses after that and could only pay the surplus, and it might be that we could not pay $50,000 or any other stated sum; that we could only pay the surplus. That he might name $50,000 in the contract if he saw fit, but make the stipulation flexible so the seller would have to accept whatever the surplus of the penitentiary products would come to. That he would have to take out that pro- vision that he should have possession and the contract be void in case we could not pay the $50,000 on the respective dates named the two years. He had another provision reciting in it that as he would lose his labor and his tenants by the sale, that in the event he took the place back, the State would furnish him convict labor enough to cultivate his farm for a year at fifty cents per day per convict. I told him that I could not concede that point as inasmuch as I would not do it myself and I would not advise any member of the board to do it. And I suggested to him that after he saw his client he and he would make the contract flexible enough so that he would have to accept the surplus of the proceeds, even Chough it be less than stipulated and strike out the labor feature, that I would approve of the contract in case the board thought the Maple Grove and the Cummins plantations were suitable and the offer. He went away and I did not see him any more until he came in with the contract that afternoon at the board meeting, and handed it in with a letter. Q. Colonel, please give us the date of that meeting? A. November 21, 1902. Now this contract which has just now been furnished me accompanied with a letter the following letter by Mr. Moore, was handed not to me as the Governor stated, but to Mr. Crockett, the Secretary, and he read it, and then read the contract. I give you the letter accompanying it: Testimony 4 98 "Little Rock, Ark., November 21, 1902. "To the Board of Commissioners for the Management of the Arkansas Penitentiary: "Gentlemen I herewith submit a proposition for the sale to your board, plantations known as the Cummins place and Maple Grove place, which are fully set out and described in the contract accompanying this communication to your board for a State convict farm. If the contract is accepted, I am prepared to carry it out by delivering possession of the lands as soon as it can be executed and the cash payment made, subject to such possession, occupancy and delay as may be necessary to enable me to gather, gin and bale the crop of cotton grown on the place during the present year. Respectfully, "E. URQUHART." Then follows the contract, which I suppose it will not be necessary to read, or which I suppose it will be useless to read. (General Murphy to read the contract, but it is agreed by the committee that the same shall be copied in the record, and same is attached to the deposition of Colonel Murphy, and immediately follows his testimony.) Now, as I stated, this contract with the communication was handed to Mr. Crockett, and he read it. I found it to have eliminated the objec- tionable features that I had called Mr. Moore's attention to. Q. Give us the date of the contract, Colonel Murphy, please? A. It is dated the 21st of November, 1902. As presented to tht, board it was in complete conformity with the idea I had suggested to Mr. Moore; the elimination of the objectionable features having been made. Judge Bradford and myself were at this meeting on the 21st appointed a committee to ascertain from Mr. Miller, not from the other offerers of plantations, the lowest price that he would take for that farm. We called him and we questioned him before the board and interrogated him there. He said that $140,000 was the lowest price at which it could be sold. He did not state that the place was covered with Johnson grass, but he did state that there was Johnson grass upon it. He did not state that they were buying Johnson grass seed in Alabama for fertilizer, but he did state that the best land around Montgomery, State of Alabama, was Johnson grass land. I did not state to Mr. Miller that if $140,000 was the lowest price he would accept for the land that we would buy it, as the message of the Governor says, for I did not know what the mind of the board would be. It is untrue that we had had a conference before the present conference of the board at which this purchase was determined upon. I said nothing of the kind to Mr. Miller. but I believed then as I believe now that that farm was a splendid offer for the State, and all things considered, by all lights, the best proposition that had been made to it for a convict farm, and I moved the board that we purchase it, and they did purchase it. It is not true that I told General Green before this proposal was made, or at any other time, that we could not make a cash payment. It is not true that I told him that the only means we would have for the payment of that or any other farm if we bought it, would be out of the proceeds of the farm. I did tell General Green, who wanted either $180,000 or $189,000 cash for his body of land, which it seemed was owned by half a dozen separate owners, that we could make only a proportionately small payment in cash, for the reason that we did not have the money to pay such a sum, and I did tell him further, when he was asking me how the price would be paid, that we could only pay it out of the proceeds of convict labor. It is not a fact that we members of the board told him to see his clients as quick as he could and report back. But my impression is that I probably told him if he was going to see them at all, to see them as soon as he could. I felt that we never could harmonize those five or six owners on the proposition of the different payments out of the surplus of the proceeds of the convict labor. Further- more, I thought this farm was preferable to that land down there anyway. It really seemed more suitable more desirable. Governor Davis, as a substitute to my proposition to purchase this farm, offered that we appoint five farmers as a committee to purchase it for us, or to purchase a farm for us; that being voted down on the theory that we had no power to delegate the authority the law had intrusted to us. He then offered a resolution to postpone it alto- gether, until the meeting of the General Assembly, so that they might remedy what he called a defect in the law, or our power to purchase; he claiming that we were at a disadvantage. The sub- stitutes being voted down upon the proposition to purchase the farm carried; and I wish to call the committee's attention now to the resolution, and just how it was, gentlemen, in that connection. (Reading from record book.) "Mr. Murphy moved that the board accept the proposition of Edward Urquhart, as set forth in the copy of the contract read before the board, to sell the State the farms known as the Cummins and Maple Grove; and to direct the Financial Agent to pay the cash payment of $30,000 on the execution of the contract and acknowledgment of the same by Edward Urquhart. And that the president and secretary of the board sign the contract ar, such, and that all other members of the board who will do so - 100 sign the same." Now, Mr. Urquhart acknowledged it right after the board adjourned. He acknowledged it within office hours. He executed and acknowledged it before five o'clock, and my belief ir was before four. Not an office in the State house, and none of the offices upstairs, at any rate, were closed. Then Mr. Moore took it, after it was signed and acknowledged by Mr. Urquhart, and signed by myself and Mr. Crockett, and I think Judge Bradford, also 1 am not sure about that he said he was going to carry It to the Governor's office, and went there, for the Governor's signature. He took it and went into the Governor's office. What occurred there I have no personal knowledge of. It is not true that any confer- ence was held after that meeting of the board had adjourned. It is not true that the Financial Agent was hustled up. It is so far as I know, not true that any member of the board had one word to say about the payment or any payment of that money after that meeting adjourned. What I know about it and the direction under which T did know is the direction in this resolution that required him to pay the money when Urquhart signed and acknowledged that con- tract, and which I assert most positively was done within office hours, and not after night. I did not see all the members of the board sign this contract. I did not know when Mr. Monroe may have signed it, but I do say that the signature of any member of that board was not necessary to bind Urquhart. If Mr. Urquhart signed it and acknowledged it then was when the payment to be made. It did not matter whether all the members of the board signed it or not. The payment was not to depend upon their signa- ture, but only on that of Mr. Urquhart, accompanied with his acknowl- edgment. It is not true that the board adjourned for the purpose of closing up the contract the next morning. I can better show that by the records. After the motion to accept the proposition was carried you find the following account: "Mr. Murphy moved that Mr. Urquhart be called on to acknowledge and sign the contract, which motion was carried," and right after that he did it. "Ad- journed until ten o'clock tomorrow." Now, that adjournment was not for the purpose of having these papers signed up and the deal closed. That was done already. Nothing anywhere was said about it. Now, the next entry is the entry the following day. "A majority of the board being present the minutes of the previous meeting were read and approved. It appearing that the contract entered into with Edward Urquhart for the purchase of a convict farm has been executed and acknowledged, and that the cash pay- ment of $30,000 has been made by the Financial Agent of the Peni- 101 tentiary; Resolved, that the aforesaid action of the board and the Financial Agent be approved, and that the Financial Agent file a duplicate receipt with the board; and that the same be attached to the contract; and that the secretary of this board notify the Superintendent of the Penitentiary of the purchase to the end that he may take steps to take possession of the lands purchased for a convict farm." And then follows the adjournment. I say now, gentlemen, that I believe men never exercised more diligence, care and prudence about their action in this matter than we did in this instance. For myself I know that I should never have voted for the purchase had I not been satisfied that it was the thing to do. You know, all of you, that this farm proposition had been agitated, and the Governor himself had stated that if he could get a farm, on the stump, in his speeches, that he would buy a convict farm. That he had been promising to do it, and that he had been contending for it all along. So far, as the farm being covered with Johnson grass and being swampy and overflowed, why it is not ordinarily any worse than any other Arkansas River farm that I know anything about. This investigation convinced me that that was a fact. I have understood and I was so informed in making my investigation, that every seven or eight years, on an average, there comes an over- flow in this river bottom, and pretty well all the lands overflow- when that comes; and that that land is far less subject to overflow than most of the land down there. While it is a fact that the front part of it is on the river it does not become submerged; and that the only water that does effect that, is when it would break out of the river some twelve or fifteen miles above and work itself into cypress creek and so back out on the back part of it; the part that is not cultivated, and even that was not very extensive. Now, the board has had a good deal of trouble with Governor Davis. We have had a great deal to endure from him. He has endeavored to force his will right square upon us, right or wrong, and without consideration, and regardless of their feelings if they refused to agree or side with him. It is his nature. It is his disposition. He never saw the Cummins or the Maple Grove places, at least he did not go to see it when we went to look at it. I don't know that he ever did see it. He didn't want to look at it, because he wanted to buy the Altheimer farm, and we went. That farm, if it had other merits for that kind of a farm, was not large enough, not fit for a convict farm. It was not suitable, in fact I was disappointed with it; but that is what he wanted to buy. He insisted upon it. And all this about our action comes from the fact that he was disappointed in not getting the Altheimer place he was mad because he did not get to buy the Altheimer place. If we had gone with him on that, it would have been all right. Why, he told me that he exacted, or had an execution from Colonel Monroe, a writing that he would join him in the purchase of the Altheimer place, as a condition of his not bringing out a candidate against him for his second term. He told me that himself, the Governor did. Now I am ready to be asked any questions. Q. (By Mr. Holland) This second resolution introduced by Governor Davis that a committee of farmers be appointed to pur- chase a farm, were the five farmers named in the resolution? A. Not in the second resolution of that sort; they were named in the first resolution he made of that nature. I think they were not named in the other, I am satisfied they were not. No, they were not named in the second resolution of that nature; just a resolution to appoint a committee of from three to five farmers. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) General Murphy, the message states that the State's crop, or a major portion of it seven hundred and fifty bales was sold the day or the day before by the Financial Agent, preparatory for this trade, and sold too, as he claims, unde;- an order of the board, in the lowest market that existed this year for the sale of cotton, what, if anything, do you know concerning that fact? A. Well, sir, I think that is erroneous. I do not reckon I was in the city at the time of that sale I think that occurred when I was down at Judge Martin's. I know that Mr. Cook came to me and asked my advice about selling the cotton and wanted to get a board meeting and get the board's direction, but I told him I had to go away, and I think maybe Mr. Monroe was at the time absent, and I told him it was not necessary for me to be here and that the board I supposed would be governed by his judgment; that he would have to see the cotton men and learn the most he could get for it, and he could largely use his own judgment. That he might ask the board about it, though. He might ask their approbation and any advice that he saw fit; but I am satisfied I advised him to sell or not to sell it according as he thought the market good or if it was favorable to do so. There was a time when the cotton market was very uncertain; I don't know, I think it was going down and looked like it would go lower. I wouldn't trust my own judgment in such a thing as that, I would have gone to the cotton men; I didn't know anything about it, what changes or fluctuations tho cotton market might undergo. It was not sold by any order of the 103 board so far as I know; and it was not* sold on any suggestion of mine, unless that be a suggestion, I think I told him that he ought to take the best advice he could get and consult with the cotton men, and sell when he thought it best and most prudent. Q. Do the minules of that meeting show any order of the board to direct him to sell that cotton for the purpose of making this payment? A. No, sir; I never saw such a record, and I have gone over them pretty careful since this thing come up. If there is any such record there it has escaped my vision. Q. The minutes do not show it? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Colonel, who writes up these minutes? A. Mr. Crockett, the Secretary of State; he is the Secretary of the board. I don't know; he generally writes them up in our presence there as we are transacting the business. Q. You don't know anything about who does write them up? A. No, sir; I thought he did it. It may be now that one of his clerks does that; or else he copies them on a separate paper and transcribed them afterwards; he might do that, I am not certain. I never paid much attention to that. Q. Now, about what length of time, General, ensued during the pendency of this transaction? A. I can't tell you. I cannot; no, sir. Yes no; I can't either, because Mr. Miller was asking about this matter some months, I think, before he put in his offer. I can't get at it, some months before some months, something about that, though. Q. Was his offer put in before you visited the farm? A. Oh, yes; he made it well, oh, several days at least. Q. When was his proposition put in, do you know? A. The proposition of Mr. Miller was put in there on the 19th of September or sometime about then; I am not quite sure I mean the offer. It was filed with the Secretary of State or the secre- tary of the board, and Mr. Miller had been to see me about it some 9h, at least two or three months before that. I don't know whether he had seen the other members of the board or not, except what I have learned from his statement. Q. The filing of that contract was not the beginning of that transaction? A. No, sir. You see his offer was made as early as the 19th of September, and the purchase was made, if I recollect right, on the 21st of November; a little over two months afterwards. 104 Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Colonel Murphy, at the time that Urquhart made and acknowledged this deed, did the board have any knowledge that this cotton had been sold, and that the $30,000 was on hand to make this cash payment? A. I think I did at the time, myself. Q. From whom did you obtain that knowledge? A. I think from the Financial Agent, I am not sure. I can't recollect that only I know that I would not have moved a cash pay- ment unless I had thought or I had known that we had the means to pay it with. I think I learned that the cotton was sold after I got back from Judge Martin's. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Colonel, I believe you stated that you visited that farm and inspected it in person? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long were you down there for the purpose I mean on the place? A. Something over a day, I reckon. Q. About what proportionate part of that farm was covered with Johnson grass, as far as you ascertained? A. Well, now you will have to have a little explanation. Miller had put in the land in cotton and his labor had left him and part of it now we found in Johnson grass pretty thick. On that that had been cultivated, I suppose you might say on the whole, probably there was three or four hundred acres, that you might say was covered with Johnson grass, possibly sodded in it; but the farm had all been sodded, so I learned, but there was then only, what I suppose you might call Johnson grass sodded on it any- where from two to four hundred acres where the plow had not been put it all. Now, I suppose, if you count that poorly cultivated cotton where the hands had left, and it had received but one working, and if you count that covered in Johnson grass, I expect you would have eight or nine hundred acres; because it looked to me like there was that much of the uncultivated land with the sodded Johnson grass. Q. Do you know how much of that farm is in a state of cultivation? A. I have been told there was twenty-four hundred acres, with an opening ready for cultivation except fencing of about two or three hundred acres. I think there is that much. Q. Did you take any notice of that levee that has been spoken of so much in connection with that place? A. Yes, sir. 105 Q. About what does that levee amount to? A. Well, I expect you could I could only describe it to you. Probably at some places it is about four feet high, some not that much and others maybe a little higher. It is a small levee, a light levee. Q. Do you know anything about the country between that farm and the railroad station traveling condition. A. Yes, sir; I think so. In wet weather the route or the road throughout is pretty bad to the railroad. It has been neglected, and it is this black waxy land, and there is a good deal of hauling down there, or enough to cut up the roads a good deal. Good roads could be made there, but it has not been done. They are in a bad condition now. It would not be a pleasant job to go from Varner over that place, because there is Cypress Creek that you have to cross, and if it has been raining any, why, it is pretty bad. Q. Do you know anything about whether you can go from Varner to that farm or not during high water; or whether the travel is affected I mean the route between Varner and the farm Is affected so that the high water would make it impossible to travel it? A. Well, I don't know how it would be in case the river over- flowed. But I should judge it would not be impassable at any time, except you might get into deep mire when you cross Cypress Creek; but that is from two and a half to four miles back of the farm towards Varner, and that runs through the black land, and when the river overflows above there it comes into that creek, I am satisfied. I never saw it overflowed, but I know it would from the foundation of the land. I guess the river running into the creek might make it impossible to cross it, but I don't think it would at any other time. Q. Leaving that proposition now and going to the consumma- tion of this deal. Did I understand you to say that Mr. Miller or Mr. Moore Mr. Moore, I believe it was had presented you a draft of that contract, or in other words a copy of that contract that you afterwards consummated, the day or the day before or the day you had the meeting at two o'clock? A. I think it was the day before that he presented me a form of a contract not a copy of this, however, for this was very materially altered. Q. And so you suggested certain alterations in that, did you? A. I may have stated it that way it meant about the same thing. I told him that I would advise the board to make a contract 106 of that sort. That he would have to make some changes some alterations, as I have stated before. Q. Now, the day that you met to take into consideration whether you would accept Miller's proposition on this farm, wasn't Colonel Moore at that meeting? A. Colonel Moore came into the meeting while we were in session. Q. Did he present that contract to you then? A. No, sir; he presented it to the Secretary of State. He had done that before, but at that time he presented it to the Secretary. Q. You mean at the time of this particular meeting he pre- sented it to the Secretary of State? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then that contract, with the alterations, was accepted did I understand you to say that? A. Yes, sir; I think there was one immaterial change. I think there was one alteration I suggested made. Q. I believe you read from your journal there that you had adjourned from that meeting to meet the next day at ten o'clock, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Colonel Moore stated on the stand there I believe you heard him that he suggested that you adjourn and sign it up or finish this contract matter the next day at ten o'clock. I believe I have stated that correct? A. No, sir; you are (Colonel Moore here comes forward and says: I was not in the meeting at the time they adjourned. I was only in the meeting several minutes. I had some work in the Auditor's office, or the Auditor's room, and I went in and handed the papers to Mr. Crockett, and went out. I was not present at that meeting when it adjourned. After the meeting had adjourned, I learned that the contract had been accepted, and I went to the office of the Secretary of State and I found there Mr. Crockett, and I believe Mr. Murphy and possibly Mr. Bradford I am not sure about him, signing the contract; and after they had signed it I took it in to Governor Davis and he declined to sign it. Mr. Monroe was not there; and I am not Sure, as I stated a moment ago, whether Mr. Bradford was or not, and the fact I referred to is, that I made the suggestion that it could go over to to-morrow morning, I expect that was the suggestion you have reference to.) Q. Mr. Moore, you knew nothing of the meeting the next 107 morning, but you just suggested that it could go over to to-morrow morning? A. Yes, sir. I did not understand that the meeting had been adjourned until the next morning. Q. (Mr. Whitley, continuing his interrogation of Colonel Mur- phy) Now, Colonel, I want to ask why the object was for that meeting adjourning that evening to meet to-morrow morning at ten o'clock? A. I have no special recollection, but my supposition is that it was done for the purpose of making arrangements to take posses- sion of the farm. Q. And not to finish the sighing up of this contract? A. No, sir. Q. You did not know outside of the parties that signed that contract in your presence, you did not know when the others signed it what time during the evening? A. No, sir; only about, when Mr. Urquhart signed it about the time. Q. When did Mr. Urquhart sign it, what time? A. Mr. Urquhart signed it a very short time after that propo- sition was accepted. Between four and five o'clock. It may have been as early as four o'clock. I am certain it was not as late as five o'clock. Mr. Moore After I was in formed that the contract had been accepted I took a carriage and went to Mr. Urquhart's he was stopping out here at , and drove him down to the Statehouse and he went with me to the Secretary of State's office and signed the contract at the very time that Mr. Crockett signed it, and that was not later than four o'clock, and probably a little after three o'clock. Q. (Mr. Whitley, continuing his interrogation of Colonel Mur- phy) Did you know during that meeting where the Purchasing Agent was, or who it was that instructed him to make this payment that evening? A. I do not know how I learned it, but the board instructed him in that resolution; but I don't know who conveyed the fact to him. Q. You don't know when he made the payment during the evening? A. No, sir; I don't know anything about it; Q. Do you know whether he made it after night or before night? 108 A. I do not know. I have no personal knowledge at all about it. Q. You have no knowledge about the payment of it? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Weaver) General, this route that you spoke of between Varner and this farm, it is a mail route, is it not? A. Yes, sir; I am told that it was. Q. Do not two mail carriers pass over it each way every day? A. I don't know, Mr. Weaver, about that. You see I was only down there one day examining the farm; but I think there is a post office down there, and they are bound to go with the mail through there. Q. (By Mr. Futrell) Is it usual or not for the board to make an order for the sale of cotton? A. I had not been on the board but one season, and I really can't tell you whether they made an order or not, but I think rather the board recommended it. I believe at one time before he did make a sale that he come and got Mr. Crockett and myself and some other member, a majority, to go and confirm his sale, thinking that he had made a good sale. I think he came and asked us to do it, and we did go together at night to do it, because he said the bidders would not hold the matter over, that he had to do it then or not at all. It seems that they were a little bit cranky about it. They wanted to make a bid as I gathered from him, and they wanted it accepted right then or not at all. Q. It is largely left, then these sales, to the judgment of the Financial Agent, subject to be approved by .the board? A. Oh, yes, sir; it is necessarily left to him, or almost neces- sarily so, because you see we can't watch the market and his judgment would be much better than ours. Q. Was there any approval by that board of the sale of this cotton by the Financial Agent? A. I don't know that there is. I don't know that any action was taken upon it. Perhaps Mr. Crockett can answer you that question better than I can. I might overlook something. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) General, does the Financial Agent have to acount to anybody for his transactions? A. Oh, yes, sir; he has to account to the board. He is under a $45,000 bond, I believe, for his faithful conduct. The board has to look over everything that he does. They bring in requisitions for goods and things to the board and the board directs the pur- chase, and where they buy those things that are bought in quantity, they advertise for bids, parties usually present their bids to the board that is the custom. Q. Does he buy the supplies for the penitentiary on bids? A. The way the supplies are bought, the Superintedent makes requisitions and they are brought into the board and read and are approved and then he buys them; but he is required to buy them on the lowest market. The board does not always accept the lowest bid that is offered, though. Q. When this cotton was sold, do you know what price it brought? A. No, sir; I do not. But I am of the impression that it was not of the lowest market of the season at all, but cotton has been sold higher since. That impression or opinion of mine is hardly worth anything because I was not here right at the time. I am satisfied I was away when that sale occurred. Q. (By Mr. Futrell) Was the $30,000 cash payment made upon an Auditor's warrant or a check? A. I don't know how it was paid. It was paid when he got the man's receipt for it; but I did not see it paid. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) The board had authorized that pay- ment? A. Yes, sir; had directed it. Q. You say the board A. (Continuing) You see the board is in a neglected shape as to that; if the board puts anything in the treasury it can't get it out again, and while I think it is wrong to that, I think we ought to have some judicial determination of the matter; for if it should turn out to be that way the board would have to have some legislation or else it would run aground. JOHN M. MOORE, being recalled, testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Colonel Moore, can you tell the board what time in the afternoon or evening that $30,000 was paid over? A. I told you about night. Q. About what hour? A. I can't tell about the hour, but I suppose it was between six and seven o'clock. Q. Before or after dark, do you remember? A. Well, I should say about dark. I think it was about dark. Q. Where was it paid? A. It was paid my impression it was paid with a check presented to Mr. Miller at the office of the Secretary of State. 110 Q. Do you know how it happened that the Financial Agent was there; was he sent for? A. As I told you before, I think Mr. Miller probably did, as I said Mr. Miller came to me after I supposed the matter was satisfactorily disposed of or determined, and after, I think, I had gone to my office after I had stated that the matter could be closed up the next morning and I had gone to my office, and later not a great while before I was ready to go home Mr. Miller came to my office and made and told me that if he made the sale he wanted to get the matter closed up, and I suppose he went and hunted up the Financial Agent; that is my supposition, I don't know personally about this. But the payment was made as I have stated. Q. The payment was made and the transaction concluded before you went home to supper? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Mr. Moore, you say that was paid by check? A. Yes, sir; I think it was paid by check on the German National Bank, or either the German or the Exchange Bank. Q. It was a bank here in town? A. Yes, sir. An adjournment was here taken until 7:30 o'clock on the 26th day of February, 1903. This contract entered into on the 21st day of November, 1902, by and between Edward Urquhart, of Little Rock, Arkansas, party of the first part, and the Board of Commissioners for the manage- ment of the Arkansas State Penitentiary, labor of convicts, machin- ery, buildings and all other property thereto belonging, composed at present of Jeff Davis, Governor of said State of Arkansas; T. C. Monroe, Auditor of the State of Arkansas; Jno. W. Crockett, Secre- tary of the State of Arkansas; H. T. Bradford, Commissioner of Mines, Manufactures and Agriculture of the State of Arkansas, and George W. Murphy, Attorney General of the State ofArkansas, party of the second part, Witnesseth First. That the party of the first part hereby agrees and bonds himself, his heirs, executors and administrators, to sell and convey to the party of the second part, for a convict farm for the State of Arkansas, as herein stipulated, the following described lands, situated in Lincoln County, State of Arkansas, together with all accretions thereto made by the Arkansas River, and now lying between said lands, or any part thereof, and said river, to-wit: Ill All of fractional Section Seventeen (17); the East half of Sec- tion Nineteen (19); the Southwest fractional quarter of Section Nineteen (19); all of Section Twenty (20); all of fractional Sec- tion Twenty-one (21); all of Section Twenty-one (21) South of the Arkansas River; all of Section Twenty-three (23) South of the Arkansas River; all of Section Twenty-five (25); all of Section Twenty-six (26); all of Section Twenty-seven (27); all of Section Twenty-eight (28); all of Section Twenty-nine (29); the East half of Section Thirty (30); the Northwest fractional quarter of Section Thirty (30); the North half of Section Thirty-one (31); the North half of Section Thirty-two (32); the North half of Section Thirty- three (33); the North half of Section Thirty-four (34); all of Section Thirty-five (35); all in Township Seven (7) South, Range Five (5) West, and known as the Cummins plantation; the South fractional half of Section Thirty-four (34); the East half East of Boone Lake, of Section Thirty-three (33); in Township Seven (7) South, Range Five (5) West; all of the Northeast quarter of Sec- tion Four (4); East of Boone Lake; the Northwest quarter of Section Three (3); the North fractional half of the Northeast quarter of Section Three (3), and the Southwest quarter of Section Three (3), all in Township Eight (8) South, Range Five (5) West, known as the Maple Grove plantation, for the sum of ($140,000) One Hundred and Forty Thousand Dollars, to be paid out of the produce of the labor of the convicts as hereinafter provided. Second. The party of the first part hereby covenants and agrees for himself, his heirs, executors and administrators, that he will, when the party of the second part shall make the cash payment hereinafter provided for, place them in possession of said lands, and that when the party of the second part, or their successors, shall have paid one-half of the purchase money, he will execute and deliver to the party of the second part, or to their successors, a deed in fee simple, with conveyance of title and warranty, and relinquishment of dower, conveying the said land to the State of Arkansas, or to such other person as may be designated herein- after by law, if the law should be changed in this respect. Third. The party of the second part hereby agree to purchase said lands from the party of the first part for a convict farm for the State Arkansas, and agree for themselves and their successors, that they will pay the party of the first part $140,000 therefor out of the labor and products of labor of the said convicts under their management, $30,000 in cash, $10,000 on or before the first day of January, 1903, $50,000 on or before the first day of January, 1904, 112 and $50,000 on or before the first day of January, 1905, with interest on said deferred payments from date until paid at the rate of six per cent per annum, the interest to be paid annually on the first day of December, and on the first day of December of each suc- cessive year thereafter, until all the purchase money is paid. Fourth. But if the deferred payments herein provided for can not be fully made at the times stipulated without reducing the proceeds of the labor and products of said convicts to such an extent that enough of said proceeds would not be left over in the hands of said board, or their successors, to support and maintain the con- victs and the State convict farm, they, the party of the second part, for themselves and their successors, agree and bind themselves and their successors to set apart and pay to the party of the first part on said several deferred installments or payments, as the same shall mature, all of the proceeds of the labor of said convicts of the State of Arkansas that may not actually be needed to maintain and support said convicts, and the State convict farm, and carry on the business thereof, shall not be sufficient in any year to pay the installment matured in said year in full, the party of the first part agrees for himself, his heirs, executors and administrators, to accept and apply upon said installments of principal, in their order, such proceeds not actually needed for the support and maintenance -jf the convicts and said farm, as the party of the second part and their successors may be able to pay him from the proceeds or fund arising from the labor of the State convicts, as aforesaid, and to extend the time for payment of the residue of such installment or installments for such time as may be necessary to enable the party of the second part, or their successors, to pay the same out of the surplus proceeds arising from the labor of the convicts. Fifth. It is agreed between the parties that if the party of the second part or their successors shall fail or refuse to pay any annual installment of interest on the aforesaid purchase money in full, at the maturity thereof, then, this contract may, at the option of the party of the first part, be rescinded, and thereupon the party of the second part, or their successors, will, immediately upon notice and demand in writing, served upon its President, at any time within thirty days after the maturity of said installment of interest, and the failure to pay the same as aforesaid, surrender and restore said lands to the possession of the party of the first part, in as good con- dition with regard to the tillable lands and improvements thereon as the same was in when received by the party of the second part, and the party of the first part shall, in that event, be required 113 to refund to the party of the second part, or their successors, any part of the purchase money thereof received by the said party of the first part, under the provisions of this agreement. E. URQUHART, T. C. MONROE, President of the Board of Penitentiary Commissioners. JNO. W. CROCKETT, Secretary of the Board of Penitentiary Commissioners. T. C. MONROE, Auditor of the State. JNO. W. CROCKETT, Secretary of State. G. W. MURPHY, Attorney General. H. T. BRADFORD, Commissioner of Mines, Manufactures and Agri- culture. Constituting the Board of Penitentiary Commissioners. County of Pulaski. ) STATE OF ARKANSAS, j S Be it remembered, that on this day, the 21st day of November, 1902, came before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public, within and for the County aforesaid, duly commissioned and acting, E. Urquhart, lo me well known as the person whose signature appears on the foregoing instrument, and acknowledged that he had executed the same for the consideration and purposes therein mentioned and set forth, and I do hereby so certify. Witness my hand and seal as such Notary Public on the day and year above written. (Seal.) F. J. SCHMUTZ, My Commission Expires Notary Public. December 24, 1904. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and fleans Committee ON Thursday, February 26, 1903 INDEX. JOHN W. CROCKETT. H. T. BRADFORD. T. C. MONROE. 117 Thursday, February 25, 1903. JOHN W. CROCKETT, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By the Chairman) You are the Secretary of State of the State of Arkansas? A. Yes, sir; I am. Q. Are you a member of the Penitentiary Board by virtue of your office? A. Yes, sir. Q. You occupy the position on that board as Secretary, do you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Mr. Crockett, in your own language, state what you know about the purchase of the Convict Farm, and the circum- stances surrounding it? A. Well, on the 19th of November, in company with Judge Bradford, Captain Monroe and Mr. Hogins, I went down to visit the Cummins and Maple Grove farms. We arrived down there about well, I suppose sometime in the afternoon, I don't remem- ber just about the hour, and we drove over a portion of the farm that afternoon; and the next morning I suppose about seven o'clock we got horses and rode over the farm, and came back to Little Rock that night getting back here I suppose about eight or half past that night the night of the 20th. On the afternoon about 2 o'clock the afternoon of the 21st the board met in the Auditor's office, and the question came up about the purchase of the farm. I think I suggested perhaps to the Auditor, who was Chairman of the board, to appoint a committee composed of Colonel Murphy and Judge Bradford to see Mr. Miller, the agent of Mr. Urquhart, and try and ascertain his lowest price and best figures terms of the sale of his place. He appointed that committee, but Mr. Miller came in while we were in board meeting and he was interrogated in open meeting by Colonel Murphy as to his lowest figures and best terms. A little later Judge Moore came in and presented a proposition in the form of a contract to the board. He handed it to me and I read it to the board. Afterwards Colonel Murphy made a motion that we purchase this farm, and the four members of the board voting for the purchase of the farm, Governor Davis having voted against it. Q. All voted for it except the Governor? A. Yes, sir. After the Penitentiary Board adjourned I took 118 the minutes to my office and had my deputy I dictated the minutes to him and had him to write them up; and a little later Mr. Moore came in my office in company with, I think, Colonel Murphy, and Colonel Murphy, Judge Bradford and myself signed the contract. After we had signed it Judge Moore then took the contract to Governor Davis to his office, and came back and said that the Governor declined to sign it. Colonel Monroe was not present at that time, having gone home, I think he was feeling sick and had gone home after the adjournment of the Board; and that night after 1 went home, or that afternoon, Colonel Moore came to my boarding house and stated that he had understood that Governor Davis was going to take some action against the purchase of the farm in some way, and he would like for me to come down, as Colonel Monroe had agreed to com'e down and sign the contract that night after supper, and the contract being in my office, I told him I would do so. I did go down and Colonel Monroe came into my office and signed the contract in my office that night after supper. That is about all I know about it. Q. That is a history of the transaction so far as you know? A. Yes, sir. I will state this, that before the board meeting at which it voted on the purchase of the farm, I did not know and did not have any idea as to how any member of the board would vote on the purchase of the farm. I was sure none of them knew how I was going to vote. I had had no agreement with any mem- ber about how we was to vote on this purchase. Q. It has been charged Mr. Crockett that there was collusion between the four members of the board and the owners of the property and his attorneys, what have you to say to that? A. I can say positively and most emphatically that there was no collusion so far as I know, and to my knowledge I had never heard that any member of the moard had, or how he was going to vote, and I know that no one knew how I was going to vote until the motion was made and the roll called and each member voted on the proposition. Q. Do you know anything about the payment of the $30,000? A. Why, no, sir; I do not. I think that the payment was made that night; I think the payment was made that afternoon or night. I don't know as to when it was it was made. I did not see it made. Q. Well, did you go down with the members of the board to see this Cummins place? 119 A. Yes, sir. Q. How long before the contract was signed up? A. That was we went down on the 19th, came back on the afternoon or night of the 20th, and the contract we voted to pur- chase the farm on the 21st. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Mr. Crockett, how many acres of land is there in that place? A. The abstract, Mr. Crutcher, says a little over 8,000 acres. That is, I mean deeded land. There is something said to be some- thing like two or three thousand acres of accretions. Q. How does this land lie, as to the river? A. Well, there is a bluff in front of the place. Q. A bluff, you say? A. You might term it a bluff, or rather high river bank along there in front of the place. Q. Well, how does the strip of land lie up and down the river does it run up or down the river? A. Yes, sir; it makes a bend, I suppose, Mr. Crutcher, and runs up and down the river about six miles. Q. Is it wider in places than at others? A. No, sir; I rather think not, probably some two to three miles wide. Q. How far is that place from the station called Varner? A. I think they call it five miles five or six miles. Q. What is the character of the route from Varner? A. Right bad I should judge in winter. It was pretty bad when we were down there. Q. Any creeks and swamps that you have to cross? A. Yes, sir; I think probably one or two swamps between there and Varner. Q. In the form of bayous or swamps? A. Two of them slashes, I think. There is an old cypress brake on the place, I suppose probably containing something like four or five hundred acres in it, but the cypress has been cut off. They had a sawmill down there at one time and cut the cypress all off. Q. You say there is four or five hundred acres in that slash? A. Yes, sir; I suppose so. Q. Is there any way in your opinion by which that might be drained? A. I think so; yes, sir; I think it could be drained into the river. 120 Q. How much cleared land was there down there, Mr. Crockett? A. Between twenty-four and twenty-five hundred acres, I am satisfied. Q. Is that entirely covered with Johnson grass? A. No, sir; I should judge, Mr. Crutcher, that possibly two or three hundred acres is probably sodded in Johnson grass. Q. That is sodded? A. Possibly, yes, sir. Q. Is that Johnson grass scattered all over it? A. Johnson grass in places, yes, sir. It is not covered with Johnson grass, that is, Mr. Crutcher, all over it. There is a large portion of it has Johnson grass on it, I suppose something like four or five hundred acres that had been put in a crop, but I presume on account of the scarcity of labor it had been thrown out, or rather abandoned. The grass has taken the crop. Q. Now, Mr. Crockett, do you know anything about farming? A. I have never farmed any, Mr. Crutcher; but I have lived in the country nearly all my life. Q. What is the character of that land? A. It is a kind of a black waxy land. Q. The entire part, you say, that is cultivated now, you say that is black waxy land? A. Yes, sir; largely so, yes sir. Q. Is there any sandy land on the place? A. Yes, sir; there is a sandy loam mixed with it. Q. Now, what do you say about the productiveness of that soil? A. Mr. Crutcher, I have lived in eastern Arkansas and in a farming country all my life, and I never saw a better crop grown anywhere than I saw on that land; the vegetation was rank and heavy, and I can be frank when I say that it is one of the best places that I ever saw, and know if it had not been I would not have wanted to purchase it. Q. It was in cotton when you were on it? A. Yes, sir; a part of it. Q. Do you know anything about cotton when you see it, as to approximating the amount it will produce? A. I think that land will average a bale of cotton to the acre, Mr. Crutcher, easily, if properly worked. Q. How much of that land was in. I mean how much was planted or had a crop on it at the time you went down there? -121 A. Well, I can't say exactly, Mr. Crutcher, that would be hard to estimate hard to estimate I don't know. Q. Did you see any corn there at the time you were there? A. Not much corn; no, sir; I saw some places where it had been planted in corn, but it had been abandoned. Q. They didn't raise much corn? A. No, sir; but they didn't say anything about why it had been abandoned. I think it was on account of the scarcity of labor though, Mr. Crutcher. Q. (By Mr. Funk) Mr. Crockett, I would like to ask you in regard to the sale of this cotton that was sold. A. I understood, Mr. Funk, that it was sold some four or five days before the purchase of this farm. That is my understanding. Q. Do you know anything about the price of cotton at that time? A. No, sir; I do not, Mr. Funk. My recollection now is that Mr. Cook came to me some several days before I can't say as to what day, because I did not tax my mind with the time. Q. Do you know anything about the condition of the market when it was sold? A. No, sir; he said something to me about selling the cotton, and I said to him, Mr. Cook, you examine the market and do the very best you can. I don't keep up with the market reports and the price of cotton, so you do the very best you can. That is about what I said to him when speaking to him about it. That cotton, I think, brought about I think it was seven and five-sixteenths. That is what I understood. Q. (By Mr. Futrell) Mr. Crockett, how many hours did you spend in actual investigation of that place? A. I suppose probably something like eight or ten hours. I should judge, Mr. Futrell, altogether. We went there in the after- noon the day before, we went over it, part of it, and then we went over it, rode horseback started about 7 o'clock and rode over it until about 12, and then in driving back to the station we drove over a portion of it again. Q. There has been a good deal said about the time when this contract was signed. What time did Colonel Monroe sign that contract? A. I should think about 7 o'clock. It was after supper. I came down just as soon as I got my supper down to my office. That afternoon Judge Bradford, Colonel Murphy and myself signed the contract that was during office hours; Governor, Davis had not left - 123 - his office before we signed it, for Judge Moore brought the con- tract back to me and says, Mr. Crockett, I will leave this and let it stay here until tomorrow morning, when Captain Monroe can come in and sign it then. That night, before supper I think, Mr. Moore came to my house and said that he understood that Governor Davis was going to try and give us some trouble enjoin the pay- ment of the money or stop the sale, and asked me would I come down to the office, that Captain Monroe had agreed to come down and sign that contract, and so I went down and got it out of the safe. Q. That was just simply to avoid any trouble about it? A. Yes, sir; he said that Governor Davis was going to try to enjoin the payment of the money, but he said he didn't think the Governor could prevent it, but he didn't want any trouble about it. Q. Mr. Crockett, as the secretary of the board, was any order ever made for the sale of that cotton, and you would know? A. No, sir. Q. Has the sale of thta cotton been confirmed by the board? A. No, sir. Q. This is left largely with the Financial Agent, is it not? A. Yes, sir; he makes his reports every month to the board. Q. There is an order of the board for this money to be paid over for a payment on this place? A. Yes, sir; that order was made in the board meeting that afternoon. Colonel Murphy 1 think read the order last night. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Was that money to be paid upon the execution of that contract by Mr. Urquhart? A. That is what the resolution says, Mr. Crutcher. If you desire I will read the order; I have the record here. Colonel Mur- phy's testimony was essentially about what mine would be, only he told it in a better language than I can do, as he is more accus- tomed to talking than I. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did you see the contract that you entered into with Mr. Urquhart before it was presented in your board meeting that afternoon? A. No, sir; I never saw it until that time when Mr. Moore handed it to me. Q. Had you signed the .contract, Mr. Crockett, before the adjournment of your board meeting or afterwards? A. Afterwards. Q. Was there any understanding arrived at as to when you should sign the contract during that board meeting? 123 A. No, sir. Q. I will ask you if you adjourned at that board meeting to meet at any other certain time? A. Yes, sir; to meet the next day at 10 o'clock. Q. Did you have any suggestion, or was it suggested in your hearing that you would pass the matter over until the next day about executing the contract? A. No, sir. Q. You never heard Colonel Moore suggest that? A. Well, Colonel Moore suggested that afternoon in my office that the matter might go over until the next day, as Colonel Monroe was not there. Q. That was after the adjournment for that day? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now what day of the month was that board meeting? A. On the 21st day of November, 1902. Q. Do you remember what time during that afternoon that you and Colonel Murphy, and I believe you said Judge Bradford, signed that contract? A. Why I should think somewhere about 4 o'clock, or proba- bly a little after 4 o'clock, somewhere along there. I know I had not left the office yet. Q. Did your board decide upon instructing the Financial Agent to pay that money over that night? A. The order purchasing the farm directed the Financial Agent to pay the cash down upon the execution of the contract by Mr. Urquhart. The resolution stated that Mr. Urquhart would be called on to execute the contract, I believe, at once. Q. Was the Financial Agent present at your board meeting? A. No, sir; 1 don't think he was. I don't know whether he was there at that time. Q. Do you know who informed him of your instructions about paying over that money? A. No, sir; I do not. I will state this, Mr. Whitley, that he was up in my office that night when Captain Monroe came to my office- that night when Captain Monroe and Judge Moore and per- haps Mr. Miller was present there. Q. Was there any understanding between you about when you should sign this contract until Mr. Miller had been advised about this prospective injunction of the Governor's? A. No, sir; there was no understanding, as I stated awhile ago. After the board adjourned I took the records and went to my office 124 and these gentlemen, Colonel Murphy, Judge Bradford and I believe Colonel Urquhart and Colonel Moore I believe Colonel Murphy, Colonel Moore and Judge Bradford and Colonel Urquhart were there, and Judge Bradford came in and we three signed the con- tract there. There was no understanding as to when we would sign it. Q. Did this suggestion of Governor Davis to Mr. Miller or his attorney bring about the signing of that contract that evening that the sale would be enjoined? A. No, sir; I did not know anything about any suggestion of that kind. Q. There was no effort made to get this contract signed up until Mr. Miller A. Mr. Whitley, I will state this, that I had heard nothing about any threats of Governor Davis about enjoining the purchase of this farm at the time that Colonel Murphy and Judge Bradford and I signed the contract. Later on, as I said awhile ago, Mr. Moore came to by boarding house and I understood from him that the Governor was going to try and stop the sale, and he wanted to know if I would go down and get the contract, that Colonel Monroe had promised to come down and sign it, and I told him I would do so. That was the first I heard of any threats of Governor Davis to enjoin the sale. The Governor made quite a number of threats during the meeting. Q. Did you have any understanding as to what you were adjourning over to the next day for? A. Adjourned to the next day to arrange to take possession of the place and direct the Superintendent to take charge of it and so on. Q. You don't know then who instructed the Financial Agent or advised him that the deal had been consummated, and to pay the money over? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. You say that that was done after night? A. I do not know when that payment was made, Mr. Whitley, I did not sec that done. Q. Then there was none of the members of the board signed that contract except Mr. Monroe signed it after night? A. All signed it except Colonel Monroe, and he signed it before dark that night, so far as I know. Q. I believe you stated that you had not seen the contract and did not know anything about it until it was presented in your board meeting? 125 A. No, sir. The only thing I had seen from Mr. Miller, I think it was from Mr. Miller, about selling that farm, was the pro- posal that he had sent in just simply a proposal and filed it with me as secretary of the board, prior to the 19th of September. I don't remember the date; I did not put the filing on the paper. Mr. Miller came into my office with his proposition and handed it to me, and this proposal was read to the board on September 19, 1902 this proposal from Mr. Miller to sell this place to the board at the price of $140,000 that was just his proposal. Q. Now in reference to the sale of that cotton, I want to ask you one question about that. I believe it was stated that by that cotton being sold at the time that it was, when the price was down, but soon afterwards went up to such an extent that there was a loss of about $1,500 in that transaction, as stated by Governor Davis in his message, I believe; do you know anything about the rise in price of cotton after the sale, or at what price was it sold when it was sold? A. I don't know. Q. Then you don't know whether the State saved or lost by the sale of that cotton at that time? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Now, as to that meeting that was to be had the next day at 10 o'clock, did the board hold that meeting? A. Yes, sir. Q. What did you do at that meeting? A. I think the minutes will show, if you would like to have them read. Q. I don't care to have them read A. The meeting the next day was for the purpose of instruct- ing the Superintendent to take charge of the farm. Q. When did he take charge of the farm? A. I don't know when he took charge, I can't state that. Mr. Hogins is here and can testify as to that himself. Q. Wasn't there a crop on that place at that time belonging to Colonel Urquhart? A. Yes, sir. I think in a few days though the Superintendent sent about fifty convicts down there a few days later, I don't remember what date, possibly the next week. He sent about fifty . convicts down there though. At the next meeting the Governor threatened to pardon all the convicts that were sent down there, but we kept sending them. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Mr. Crockett, have you any reason- to 126 offer why that contract was not signed during the board meeting, when it was accepted by the members of the board? A. No, sir. I can say, Mr. Whitley, that I would have signed it right there just as soon as I did in my office if I had been called on to, and if I was called on to I would sign it again. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) Do you consider that you have been accused of collusion in the purchase of that farm, or that you have been accused of having some private understanding with the owners for the purchase of that farm? A. I would judge so from the Governor's message. Q. Then you consider that your methods have been impugned and your integrity has been attacked? A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Mr. Crockett, it was suggested in the Governor's message that there was a scheme on the part of a ma- jority of the board, some twelve months ago to purchase the Beak- ley farm; now go on and state if there was a scheme to purchase that farm, or if there was anything in that? A. I don't know anything about any scheme of that kind, Judge. No; and no. I can't tell you about it; if there was any scheme I was not in the scheme. Q. Then there was no scheme that you know of? A. No, sir. Q. It is also suggested that when the purchase of the Beakley farm was disposed of that the matter rested for many months, now is it not a fact that the Governor himself offered a resolution about a month after that time to accept the other farm the Altheimer proposition? A. Well, about that time, Judge, there was a resolution offered by some one to narrow the purchase down between the Beakley farm and the Altheimer farm. Q. Does your record show that? A. Yes, sir; I think so. I say that there was a resolution of that kind offered to narrow the matter down between these two farms, the Beakley and the Altheimer farms; there was a resolution of that kind. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Were you about to purchase the Beakley farm, Mr. Crockett? A. I don't know, Mr. Whitley. I was not, because I was never in favor of purchasing the Beakley farm. The matter had narrowed down between the two farms; Governor Davis wanted to purchase the Altheimer farm. 127 Q. (Br. Mr. F. L. McCain) Mr. Crockett, is it not a fact that the Cummins place has a river front and a railroad bank of some four or five miles to the railroad, and that you have shipping facil- ities from it both by water and by rail? A. Yes, sir. There is an old railroad dump, Mr. McCain, from the Cummins used to be a railroad running up from the farm, but the rails have been taken up, but there is &, dump there yet, but the rails have been removed. Q. I will ask you if the convicts that went down to the Cum- mins place did not go by bpat from Little Rock down there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is much cheaper than it would be by rail, ordi- narily, is it not? A. I suppose so. Q. Is the road from the railroad out to the Cummins place any worse than the ordinary country road? A. I think not; no, sir. Q. A question was asked you as to that land growing corn, is it not a fact that in all the bottom land especially this Arkansas River bottom land ordinarily that corn is not raised on it, but that it is devoted or the time is devoted to raising cotton more or less? A. Yes, sir. That land is just as good and just as productive as anywhere. Q. That land is just as good as any land in the Arkansas River or the Mississippi River bottom land, is it not? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is a fact, is it not? A: Yes, sir. Q. And is it not a fact that in that particular locality and all down in that section of the country that this land sells anywhere from $20 to $50 an acre, or have you any information as to that? A. I can't state about that. I know they are selling land on the prairie at $25 an acre, and I wouldn't give one acre of this land for five of that on the prairie as for productiveness. Q. I will ask you this question, if you are familiar with it is it not a fact that where a cypress brake is drained and put in cul- tivation that it is the most productive cotton land? A. I have heard that, but I don't know. Q. That is a matter of general information? A. Yes, sir. -Q. When the crops are laid by in the summer time and the con- victs have nothing to do, it would be a comparatively easy matter 128 to fence and tile drain it out into the Arkansas River wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And when that has been done your information is that that will make the richest land on that place? A. Yes, sir; that is my information. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Crockett, did or did not Governor Davis offer a resolution to purchase the Altheimer farm? A. I don't remember, Colonel. Q. Can you refer to the record and see? A. Possibly so. (Refers to record.) Yes, sir; I can; here it is. Q. What month was it made? A. Made October 11, 1901. Q. Do you recall at what price the Altheimer place was offered? A. My recollection is that it was something like $90,000. Q. And that farm was situated between England and Altheimer, was it not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you recollect how far it was from any stream into whir'^ it could be drained? A. There was a bayou, Colonel, running back of the house, but it was a flat bayou and was dry. I don't know how far it was to the river. Q. Do you remember how we voted on that proposition? A. Yes, sir; I think I do; for the proposition, Governor Davis; negative, Monroe, Hill and Murphy. Q. I want to ask you if anybody ever made a motion or a proposition to purchase the Beakley farm? A. I don't think there was ever any motion made to buy it. Q. None at all? A. No, sir. Q. But you do remember that about a month or two afterwards that there was a resolution restricting consideration of purchasing at all to the Beakley and Altheimer farms? A. Yes, sir; something of that kind. Q. Do you recall who introduced that resolution? A. No, sir; I do not. I cannot say positively now. Q. Do you remember whether it was Governor Davis or not? A. No, sir. Q. You do remember, though, that a lot of witnesses were brought up here, about thirty-one or thirty-two, after this resolution to purchase the Altheimer farm was made, that there was a lot of 129 - witnesses brought up in order to prove that the Beakley farm was wet and low? A. Yes, sir; Governor Eagle was before the board and tes- tified. There were quite a number of witnesses here. Q. Do you recall at whose instance? A. At Governor Davis' instance. Q. Do you recollect that he examined them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you recollect whether I stated that that farm was wet and low, and that I would never consent to buy it? A. You said something such as that, Colonel. Q. Do you recollect whether I said I wouldn't want to buy it if it was wet land? A. My recollection is that you stated that if it was that char- acter of land that you didn't want to buy it. Q. Do you recollect whether following the refusal to purchase the Altheimer place that Governor Davis took us to task those who voted against it and lambasted us freely about it? A. I think that was about the time that interview appeared in the "Globe-Democrat," wasn't it? We had quite a controversy about the "Globe-Democrat" matter. Q. Yes, we had quite a controversy about that, but didn't he lanibast us then? A. I can't say positively, but it is my idea that you did the lambasting at that time, Colonel. Q. Well, now, let me see if I can't refresh your memory; do you remember that he said the administration was his, and that he thought the board had no respect for him, or the majority of the board, or his views anything of that sort in connection with the rejection of that resolution of his to make that purchase? A. Colonel, the Governor said so many things along that line that I can't remember all. I can't swear positively about that. I would be pleased to answer the question, but I can't say positively. Q. Before and after you voted on the purchase of that Al- theimer farm you passed over it several times, did you not? A. Yes, sir; I always went that way going down to my old home. Q. Did you yourself after seeing the crops grown on it and the absence of its productiveness ever change, or did it not change your mind? A. I changed my mind about it; yes, sir. Mr. Altheimer came into my office sometime about the time that we were considering Testimony 5 130 it and spoke to me sometime in September probably, about the time we were considering this latter proposition of lands below, and I stated to him very frankly that I could not vote to purchase that farm; that I had passed through it, and the railroad runs right through it, and I had been over it examining it, and I had not seen any crops growing on it. I told him very frankly that I could not vote for purchasing his farm; that was the time when Mr. Altheimer spoke to me about it. Q. Mr. Crockett, this property that we did purchase, and the others that you looked over, I want to ask you the question, which of them had the advantage in point of productiveness, loca- tion and suitableness for a convict farm in your estimation? A. Why, Colonel, I evidently thought that the Cummins place and the Maple Grove place had the advantage or I would not have voted for purchasing them. Q. And that takes into consideration the price A. Yes, sir. Q. We went to look at the Red Leaf plantation on the Missis- sippi River, did we not? A. Yes, sir; we did. Q. And after the investigation that you had made, exercising your best judgment, you thought that that was a preferable farm, both in regard to productiveness, location and price? A. Certainly did; yes, sir. Q. The best for the State? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now you have been asked about your personal investiga- tion of that farm, now I want to ask you if in addition to your personal knowledge you made it a point or any efforts to discover its value, and its suitableness for this farm? A. Yes, sir. Q. In what way? A. I went over it personally, and I think possibly we had got back to Varner and I met Captain Bob Rice, and knowing that he was one of the men suggested by the Governor as one of a com mittee to examine places with a view of purchasing a farm, I made inquiries of Captain Rice, as to the suitableness and value of that farm as a convict farm, and he told me that he was born and raised in possibly five miles of the place, and I understood he said that he had hunted over every foot of it when a boy, and that he thought it was one of the best farms in the country for sale; and I think Judge Bradford asked the question, did he think that an 131 average price for that place of $14 or $15 an acre was too much for it, and he said that he thought it was a reasonable price for it. Q. (By F. L. McCain) I will ask you this, Mr. Crockett, in order that it may be made plain to the committee; that when we talk about the Cummins place, as a matter of fact the convict farm that was purchased is composed of several places? A. Yes, sir; the Cummins place and the Maple Grove place. Q. That is the old Goree place? A. Yes, sir. Q. And it is a much larger tract of land than is known in that part of the country as the Cummins place? A. Yes, there are two places. Q. The Goree place is as large most as the Cummins place, is it not? A. I don't 'know. It is large. But I know it is not as large as the Cummins place. My recollection is that there is something like seven or eight hundred acres in the Goree place. Q. The abstract can be furnished to the committee showing ixactly? A. Yes, sir; I think Colonel Murphy has the abstract. Q. (By Mr. Rowland) Do these two places join, Mr. Crockett? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Do you know whether or not that stream is navigable during the cotton season or not? A. Yes, sir; the river is nearly always navigable in the fall. I think there is a packet from Memphis to Pine Bluff all the time during the cotton season. That is my understanding. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Mr. Crockett, do you know how much of that place has been washed away in the last few years? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the levee being washed away and the land caving in along the river? A. No, sir; I do not. , Q. (My Colonel Murphy) Did you see any evidence of a levee there being washed away? A. No, sir; I didn't notice any, Colonel. Q. Is it or not a fact that ih"~" is a regular packet from Memphis to Pine Bluff the year round? A. That is my understanding, Colonel; small packet. 132 "Little Rock, Ark., March 28, 1903. "Hon. E. M. Merriman, Chairman, and Member of the Ways and Means Committee: "On my return from Memphis, having been informed that Mr. Altheimer had testified before your committee in reference to the purchase of the Altheimer place, that he had filed with me as Secretary of State a proposition for the sale of that place for the sum of $75,000. "Now in view of the fact that I was absent at that time in Memphis, and unable to be present and testify before the commit- tee closed the taking of evidence, I now respectfully ask your per- mission to file the following statement, which I make under oath: "I state positively that neither Mr. Altheimer or any one else ever filed with me, or in my office an offer to sell the Altheimer place for less than $87,500. I further state that I never heard, before this investigation, lhat he had ever offered to sell the place to the board for less than $87,500. On the contrary, I understood from both him and Governor Davis that the place could not be purchased for less than the price of $87,500. That this was the very lowest for which it could be purchased. I further state that at one time I voted with Governor Davis to purchase the place at $87,500, thinking it a fair proposition, but, later, having passed through the place several times on the railroad and having observed the condition of the crops, I concluded that the place was not worth the price asked and was not suitable for a convict farm, and I decided positively that I would under no circumstances consent to the purchase of the place. I will further state that I am perfectly willing to appear before the committee and testify in regard to' this matter at any time they may desire to call me. "J. W. CROCKETT." "Subscribed and sworn to before me this 28th day of March, 1903. (Seal.) "J. C. MASSEY, Notary Public. "My Commission expires on the 12th day of April, 1905." Ordered that this affidavit be made part of Mr. Crockett's testi- mony. H. T. BRADFORD on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Please state what if any official posi- tion you hold in the state government? 133 A. I am Commissioner of Mines, Manufactures and Agricul- ture. Q. As such are you a member of the Penitentiary Board. A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Judge Bradford, you have heard the direct examina- tion of some of the other State officials, I wish you. would go ahead in your own language and tell what you know about the purchase of this convict farm? A. Mr. Chairman, I only came on this board on the 31st of October, 1902, and prior to, that time of course I did not know any- thing about the business that had been transacted, or anything that had been done in reference to purchasing a farm or any other business. But when I came on the board became a member of the board, I found that they were contemplating buying a convict farm, and that there were several propositions to sell farms to the board, for the State. Coming directly to the facts and the visit to this farm on the 18th of November, I think it was, Mr. Crockett, Captain Monroe and myself agreed to go down and look at what is known as the Cummins place. Neither one of us had ever seen it. We went down to Varner on the 19th of November and went from Varner over to the Cummins place. We went through the farm, and through a large part of it, in making the trip from Varner over to the place, and we went over a good portion of it that evening. As stated by Mr. Crockett, on the morning of the 20th, we got horses and we rode over a great deal of the farm. We stayed there until in the afternoon and came back to Varner in the afternoon and came back to Little Rock that night. We had a meeting of the board the next day at 2 o'clock I presume about that time that is the time prescribed for it, and I presume the meeting was held at 2 o'clock. Now I want to say right here, for fear I may forget it, Mr. Crockett and myself and Colonel Monroe came back on the night of the 20th. I came to my office the next morning I did not see Mr. Crockett during the day until I met him that afternoon in the board meeting. I did not see Colonel Monroe during that day until we met in the board meeting, or just before, when Colonel Monroe came to my office and said the board will meet at 2 o'clock, or that there would be a meeting of the Penitentiary Board at 2 o'clock. We met and the propositions were taken up about buying a convict farm, the propositions to sell. Thereupon a motion was made that a committee be appointed to confer with Mr. Miller in reference to this place, and the chairman appointed Colonel Murphy and myself, and during the meeting, 134 while we were there, Mr. Miller came in and Colonel Murphy in- terrogated him before the board in reference to this place and as to what was the lowest price, the lowest money that would buy it; and he said that $140,000 was the least money that he would take for it, that.it could not be bought for less than that. I am not sure that it was before that or after we had talked with Mr. Miller that Mr. Moore came in and handed to Mr. Crockett the proposition to sell this place to the State, and he read it, and it was the contract that has been presented here during this investigation. Afterwards Colonel Murphy made a motion that we accept the proposition to buy that place at $140,000. It was voted on; four members voted for it and one member voted against it. Q. Who was the member that voted against it? A. Governor Davis. When the board adjourned I went back to my office. I had been there some little time when somebody came down from the Secretary of State's office, I think Mr. McHenry, and stated that they wanted me to come up to the Secretary of State's office; I went up there and found Colonel Murphy and Mf\ Crockett and Colonel Moore and Mr. Urquhart there. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Where did you say they came after you? A. Came down to my office. I am not sure whether Colonel Murphy or Mr. Crockett had either of them signed the contract when I went up there or not, but if they had not done so it was signed immediately after, as I signed the contract then it was ready to sign. After that Judge Moore took the contract and car- ried it in to Governor Davis and came back and left the contract with Mr. Crockett gave it to him. Captain Monroe was not there, and Mr. Moore said to Mr. Crockett that he could just keep that contract until the next morning and that Captain Monroe could sign it the next morning. It had been signed by Colonel Urquhart at the time and it was left there to stay there until morning for Mr. Monroe to sign up. After that I went back to my office and was there for a few minutes and went out and went home. On the street I heard some one say, I don't know just who; I met Mr. Crockett and Mr. Ludwig, and we walked up Main street together to Seventh or Eighth and Main, and Mr. Crockett went home and I went home. That was before dark. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Do you know anything about the cash payment on that farm, Judge? A. No, sir; I don't know anything about when the cash pay- ment was made. Q. (By Mr. Weaver) Governor Davis, I understand then, did not go along with you gentlemen on your visit to that farm? 135 A. No, sir; he did not go. Q. Have you visited there since this sale, or has the Governor ever visited there since? A. No, sir; I have not been there since. I don't know whether he has ever visited there or not; he has not to my knowledge. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) I want to ask what feature of that inves- tigation occupied most of your time? A. Well, I was in the timber part of it most of the time that I was there; during most of the morning that we were there I was in the timber part of it. Q. You spent a great deal of your time, I suppose, in investi- gating the character of the soil? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the amount of this Johnson grass that was on it? A. I could not say so much about that as I was back on the land that has not been put in cultivation the land in the timber. Q. Did you pay very particular attention as to what amount of land there was in cultivation? A. I can't tell about that. But on inquiry there was said to be about twenty-four or twenty-five hundred acres. I know thpre is a large tract, I suppose twenty-four hundred acres or around there. Q. Can you give an idea of about how much time you spent in investigating the timber portion of that farm? A. Why we went out early in the morning and we went right into the timber and was in it until 12 o'clock. Q. While you investigated the timber features of it these other gentlemen were qn the cultivated portion? A. Yes, sir. Q. You investigated the farm I suppose for its whole length up and down the river? A. In going to it, Mr. Stockard, you go through the farm from Varner to get to the dwelling house. About two miles from Varner you strike it on the southeast corner and there you strike the cleared land, and you go through that on up through, up on the river to where the dwelling houses are and everything of that kind, and we went right up there that afternoon; we went clear up there, that far, I suppose three miles across, and in going back the next day we went around; you see the evening before we went across here (indicating by motion of hand), and cut across to the northeast corner of the farm, and in coming back the next day I cut around next to the river and around to the outside of the cleared 186 fand; so we went over part of it in going over and another part in coming back. We came around on the east and south side of the cleared land, and so that gave us a pretty good view of all the cleared land back in there. Q. Did you pay particular attention to the levee along the river? A. No, sir; not especially. Q. Did you notice whether there had been much of that land washed away or not? A. No, sir; I did not notice. Q. Judge, do you consider that your character has been at- tacked and your integrity has been impugned in any way in this matter? A. Yes, sir; I feel very much that way about it, Mr. Stockard. Q. Do you feel that you have been accused of being a party to a conspiracy A. Yes, sir; but if there was any collusion about it I did not know anything about it. Q. (By Mr. Funk) Judge Bradford, are you a farmer? ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you consider the soil very fertile down there? A. Yes, sir; I consider it, Mr. Funk, one of the finest tracts of land I have ever seen in Arkansas. Q. Now next to the river, you know about the soil next to the river, you know the soil next to the river is really made you know, mostly a sandy loam, loam land next to the river A. Yes, sir; but this land commences and runs back; if you know about bottom land you understand that as it runs back, you get away from the water that sandy loam land gradually gives way to a black soil, and some of it runs into buckshot. I think there is some buckshot land down there. And down in our country, at home, the buckshot land is considered the best cotton land that we have. But you take that land down there, that sandy soil next to the river, and it runs back, gradually back into the timber land, where the timber is now; and some of it is this black stiff land. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Judge Bradford, what do you think of the charges made in the Governor's message, that the board paid an exorbitant price for that farm? A. I don't think that we did, Mr. Chairman. I tell you, Judge, I do not think we did. I will tell you what I know about it; when we came back to Varner from the Cummins place, we had a con- versation with Mr. Rice, who lives at Varner, and Mr. Rice says 137 that he has lived there all his life, and he told me as we were going to that place that he had been over every foot of it, and that he had hunted all over it; and when we came back there I had a talk with him about that place and asked him a whole lot of questions about it, and finally asked him I first asked Mr. Monroe and Mr. Crockett if they had any objections to my asking about what would be a fair price for that place, and they said they did not, and so I asked him as to what he thought that place was worth, and he did not say at once, and I asked him if he would consider $15 or $16 an acre for that place, taking the whole of it together, all over, an unreasonable price for that place, and he said it was not, but that the place was worth it; that it was very cheap at that money, and that was the price I placed the estimate to him at, some two or three dollars more than we had been offered the place at. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Judge, you do not know whether there was any understanding between Colonel Rice and the parties own- ing that property or parties to sell it or not, do you? A. No, sir. I think that was the first time that I had ever seen him. I and the other gentlemen wanted to get his opinion of it. I thought that Mr. Rice's judgment on that would be first-class, and I think so yet. Q. Did you make any investigation as to what that place had formerly sold for? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. You did not know that it had been sold before? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Did you make any investigation as to what it had been renting for? A. I understood that they were renting that land they were not renting it either; it was being worked on the shares; but I understood that they were renting what they were renting for one hundred pounds of lint cotton to the acre; they got one hun- dred pounds of lint cotton per an acre of land. Q. Did you learn any thing about the Willie brothers what they paid rent for that place? A. No, sir. Q. You never heard anything about that? A. No, I understood from one of the Willie brothers he told me that he worked the place one time worked the place for sev- eral years, and I understood from him they paid rent for it, but I didn't ask what rent they paid. I had seen one of them before and talked with him in reference to the place, but I did not ask him what rent he paid for it. 138 Q. Did you make any inquiries as to what the place was assessed at on the tax books? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Then you do not know what "it had rented for, or what it had formerly sold for, or anything about it? A. No, sir. Q. Or what it was rented at A. No, sir; up to that time I had never heard it said for what it was ever sold for to others, or it had rented for; but I understand that it rents now, and had been renting for years, for a rental of one hundred pounds of lint cotton to the acre. Q. You don't know anything about that place being offered to the State for a convict farm at any time since Governor Fish back's administration? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Now in reference to the meeting at which the members entered into that contract at 2 o'clock; on the day that that con tract was presented, had you seen it or had an understanding as to what that contract was to be? A. No, sir; I never saw the contract before. Q. You had not seen the contract? A. No, sir; never had seen it before. Q. Was that contract carefully looked into by the board at the time it was presented to it? A. It was read and considered; yes, sir. Q. Did you come to the understanding in that board meeting that you would accept that contract and proposition to purchase that farm? A. Yes, sir; my recollection is that there was a resolution offered accepting the contract and the purchase of the farm. Q. Did you sign or execute that contract during the board meeting? A. No, sir. Q. Can you offer any reason why there was not an agreement in there in regard to the contract being signed in that meeting? A. There wasn't anything said about the subject of signing the contract during the board meeting. There was the order, or resolution made, and my recollection is that it is in the record, and I think the record will show that we accepted to take the proposi- tion take the place at $140,000 and the Financial Agent was directed to pay the $30,000 of the purchase money upon the execu- tion of the contract by Colonel Urquhart; now that is not an 139 answer to your question; I don't presume that any member of the board would have signed that contract before Mr. Urquhart had signed it. I wouldn't; and for that reason I would not have signed it at that time. I wouldn't have signed it at all until he agreed to it and had executed the contract himself. Q. Did you have any information from Colonel Moore or Mr. Miller to the effect that Governor Davis had threatened to enjoin the sale, and that Mr. Miller by reason of that wanted this deal closed up that night? A. No, I did not see Colonel Moore but once, and that was when I went up to the Secretary of State's office to sign the con- tract, that is after the meeting, and I was not down in town that night and did not know about it. Q. You were aware that Colonel Moore had been retained to draw up this contract and close up the deal did you know? A. Retained by whom? Q. Mr. Miller? A. I didn't know anything about that; no, sir. Q. That Mr. Moore was their attorney attorney for Mr. Mil- ler he was there as the attorney for Mr. Miller and Colonel Urqu- bart and presented the contract? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you hear Colonel Moore's testimony here the other night? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember that he stated that Mr. Miller came to him and wanted it closed up that night came to him before dark and wanted it closed up before dark on account of Governor Davis wanting or threatening to enjoin the sale? A. Yes, sir; I heard that. Q. Now is that not the reason the contract was closed up and signed after night the reason they signed it that evening? A. No, sir. Q. Wasn't that the purpose of signing that contract that even- ing, that the parties were fearful of being enjoined, or there had been a threat made A. Why 1 said I did not know anything of that kind. When we three members signed the contract I had never heard of it. Q. You signed that contract after Colonel Urquhart signed it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you signed it before night? A. Yes, sir. I want you to be clear about it. Colonel Urqu- 140 hart signed it before night, and I signed it immediately after he signed it, or the members there did. Q. You did not make any investigation as to whether that levee was compelled to be kept up in order to protect that land? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know whether that levee had washed away or not that had been put in there? A. No, sir. Q. You did not make any investigation of anything to know about how much of that farm had washed away in the last few years > A. No, sir; never heard a word stated about it. Q. The reason I ask you these questions, is that reference is made to it in the Governor's message, I think, by Governor Davis. I understood him to say in his message that at the upper end of this place was or had been washed into the river? A. Yes, sir; I understood him to say that the upper part of it had washed into the river. Now when we went across it there, the levee came right down to the river; the levee is across the upper end of the place, or what is known as the upper end, and the levee was there then. I don't know how long it had been there, but I know the levee is there because we rode right down the levee when we came from the upper end of the place. I saw it. It may have washed at some places when it overflowed, but I never heard anything said about it. I know there is a levee there, and no appearance of its having been washed into the river. Q. Did you make any investigation as to whether that farm is subject to overflow from the river or not? A. Yes, sir; and they told me that there was no overflow on it unless it comes down through the cypress brake on the west and backs in from Cypress Creek that runs back of that place and between the place and Varner; and in talking with Captain Rice about it he told me when the river got very high and the levee broke away above there, something like ten or twelve miles, at some little station up there, and it come down and run into that Cypress Creek and overflow that, and that it would then back over some of that land, but on a very little of the land, and I under- stood that probably it backs up some of these sloughs, but not enough to damage the place. And after I asked him about it and learned it was caused from the natural overflow I did not presume there was much in it, or that there could be much damage done to' the cleared land by the natural overflow. All the water that comes 141 on the place is water from the river that runs into that Cypress Creek and backs up that lake. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) Who is this Financial Agent? A. Mr. M. D. L. Cook. Q. At that time? A. Yes, sir. Q. When was that cotton transaction, when did it take place as to the land transaction? A. The cotton was sold a few days before we bought that farm. I don't know just how long, but it was a few days before that. Q. Do you know anything about the Financial Agent being instructed to sell that cotton? A. Nothing about it except some little time before that, before we bought that place, Mr. Crockett and myself went out to the penitentiary one day, and Mr. Hogins said tat he had quite a 'lot of cotton there I don't remember how much, but I think he said one hundred and fifty bales, prob'ably more thfn that. I said some- thing to Mr. Hogins about their holding the cotton, or something about it; I said to him that I thought it was bad policy to hold that cotton, that it ought to be sold. A day or two after that it may have been the same day or the next day I met Cook down here and I asked him why it was that he had not sold that cotton, and he said they had been holding it to get more of it together; that the more cotton they got together the better chance they had to sell it for a better price, and probably that was the reason they had not sold it. But my advice to him was that they would not make by holding that cotton and it ought to have been sold. I concluded that cotton would still go lower than it was then. A day or two after that I think it was, Cook came into my office and said he had been around to see the members of the board about selling that cotton, and asked me what I thought about it. I said, you know what I think about it, because 1 told him before that 1 thought it ought to be sold. That is all I know about the sale an appropriation for all. other expenses of the Governor's office. It. was not itemized, it was just .an- appro- 241 priation to cover all other items for salary provided for. But all expenses of the governor's office were just provided for in one appropriation. They were all bunched up together. Q. Do you know as a matter of fact that all the expenses in- curred in connection with his office during his two terms were paid out of his own contingent fund? A. That, I think, will show, Judge, from the reports, and T would have to refer to the records to see. Q. Did they have a chair fund or a repair 'fund for his office? A. No, sir; I don't know of anything of that sort. It has just come to my recollection and so for fear I will let it slip out of my mind, in addition to the salary there was allowed $1,000 for rent of mansion, but all other expenses not therein provided for was so much appropriated for. Q. So that his salary and his mansion rent was all that was provided for except what is embraced in the contingent fund? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) Governor Berry didn't keep his fam- ily here, did he? A. 1 don't know, Governor. Q. He drew the mansion rent, didn't he? A. Yes, sir; he drew the mansion rent. Q. Governor Fishback didn't keep his family here, did he? A. I don't know that either. Q. But he drew the mansion rent, didn't he? A. I would presume so, although I never looked it up. Q. (By Charles Jacobson) Will you please examine this toucher, No. 195, and state to the committee when it was drawn and for what purpose? A; Well this is a warrant that was drawn by Governor Jones, January 17, 1900, for $10.50. Q. Read out for what purpose it was drawn for? A. To a horse and R. T. buggy, $2.50. September 25, horse and R. T. buggy, $2.50. November 15, saddle horse, $2.50. June 22, hc-rse and buggy, $3 ! .00. Total amount, $10.50. Q. Please read this voucher, Governor Davis has referred Mr. Colquitt, what is that, is that a telephone message? A. Yes, sir; it seems to be two receipts for rental of 'phone. Q. Does the bill there disclose that it was a local 'phone at the Governor's residence Governor Jones' residence? That is what I wanted to ask you about that they have sent one for Gov- ernor Dan W. Jones, one for the office and one for the residence? 242 A. Yes, sir; one for the Governor's office and the other is to /ones, Governor Dan W. Q. They are for the same month, are they? A. Yes, sir; same month 31st. Q. Now, Colonel, this is voucher No. 1111; what does that disclose? A. Here is one bill, Jones, Governor Dan W., March 31, rental of telephone instrument May 30, $3; April 1, $6.00; both paid out of the contingent fund on the same voucher. Q. This voucher, No. 5953, what does the body of that say that was drawn for and for what amount? A. Hire a horse to draw son to Major Schaer's funeral, $5.00. Q. This is voucher No. 5419; what was that for? A. Playing drum at Dewey celebration, $3.00. State .making bond, 70 cents. Q. Here is voucher No. 5428; that was for what and what was it drawn out of? A. Potash Sulphur water, $4.50. A. C. Read by S. Mayer, Potash water for September, 1899, $4.50. Q. Take this voucher, No. 5970: what is it for? A. Lodging sixteen men band it seems $8.00. Q. This voucher, No. 5063; what is that for? A. Potash Sulphur water, $5.15, September 5, bought of A. C. Read. Q. Here is voucher No. 4568; what is that and what is the amount of it? A. Expenses, trouble and so on in reference to Q. Here is No. 3534, Western Union bill; what is the amount of that bill, Colonel? A. May 31, 1899, message sent by and received by this office for March, 1899, April, 1899, February, 1899 three months, $51.55. Q. Here is voucher 4709, Western Union; what is the amount of that bill? A. Bill, Fort Smith, Washington, and so on, $3.46. Q. Here is voucher No. 6094; what are the items shown on that bill? A. This is a Southwestern Telegraph and Telephone bill. Long distance, rental for the month of November, 1899, $4.85, dated December 1, 1899. November 3, calling for coal, Dardanelle, 40 cents; 6th, Manning, Clarendon, 95 cents; 10th November, 25 cents; 10th November, 25 cents; 12th, Manning, 45 cents; 15th, Jones, Memphis, 60 cents; 16th, Mrs. Davis, Dardanelle, 40 cents; 17th, 243 New, , 25 cents; 20th, same, 45 cents; 21st, same, 35 cents; 27th, same, 45 cents; 29th, same, 45 cents; making a total of $4.85. Q. Here is voucher No. 5594 and 5208; will you kindly state what they are? A. This is dated September 14, expenses trip to St. Louis to attend the Anti-trust Convention called by Governor Sayers, $75.00. October 16, 1899, share of expense printing the proceedings at St. Louis, $20. Q. Here is voucher No. 5962; please read that? A. Expenses, trip to Memphis, to Western Waterways Conven- tion, November 14 and 15, 1899, in the interest of the State, $17.00. Q. Here is voucher No. 5506; please read that and the bill attached? A. Jones, Dan W., Governor, rent of 'phone, $2.35; Governor's office, rental of 'phone, $4.00. Q. Colonel Colquitt, will you kindly read what the amounts of Governor Jones' telegraph and telephone bills were for the last two years of his administration? A. This in 1899? Q. Yes, up to 1901? A. Well, here is the aggregate here, $716.59. Q. The sum total? A. Yes, sir. I haven't compared it, but I see they have been checked down as I glanced over them, and they are probably right. They appear to be right. Q. Here is the deficiency, Colonel, that you have seen and compared the original vouchers to. This is the deficiency of the Southwestern Telegraph and Telephone Company, $44.75, and the Western Union, $106. Q. Does not that show then that Governor Jones expended in telegraph and telephone messages for the last two years of his administration the total sum of $716.59? A. I haven't compared the additions, but I think they are cor- rect; they seem to check up. Q. Can you verify it right quick so that we won't have to go through that account again, and we can get it in the record? A. (After adding up column of figures before him) Yes, sir; the addition is correct. Q. Then the sum total is what? A. $716.59. Q. There wasn't any Spanish-American war during his last administration was there, his last two years? 244 A. I really don't remember; I think not, though. I haven't thought of it. I don't know. Q. This, then, is the sum total for the last two years of his administration? A r Yes, sir; the $716.59. Q. (By Judge Merriman) Colonel Colquitt, refer to voucher No. 5358. A. Here it is, sir. Q. Please read that voucher? A. Little Rock, August 14, 1901. State of Arkansas to Sanders Engraving Company, St. Louis, making one cut of James F. Rector, $2.50; and the certificate is attached. Q. That was paid from the contingent fund, was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. No. 587? A. That is a Western Union Telegraph bill. Q. Pass it by No. 118? A. That is a long distance telephone bill. Q. Read it, please? A. Judge Davis, sent by Mrs. Davis, 25 cents. Q. Where from? A. Sent to Judge Davis, Russellville, by Mrs. Davis. Q. From where? A. This point, of course. It does not state, but the bill is made out here. 1st, George Belding, Hot Springs, sent by blank, 50 cents; 2d, Governor Davis, Rison, by Mrs. Davis, 35 cents; 2d, Gov- ernor Davis, Rison, by Jacobson, 35 cents; 3d, John Hatley, Rus sellville, by blank, 40 cents; 4th, Cooper, Malvern, by blank, 25 cents; 4th, McHenry, Morrilton, by blank, 40 cents; 4th, Mrs. Bol- ton, Conway, by blank, 25 cents; 5th, Judge Bourland, Ozark, by blank, 55 cents; 7th, Major Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 30 cents; 7th, Keel, Newport, by blank, 60 cents; 12th, Barker, Atkins, by blank. 30 cents; 12th, Crenshaw, Texarkana, by blank, 75 cents; 12th, Montgomery, Texarkana, by blank, $1.05; 12th, Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 45 cents; 13th, Jelks, Hot Springs, by blank, 50 cents; 13th, Bloom, Pine Bluff, by blank, 25 cents; 15th, Judge Davis, Russellville, by blank, 45 cents; 16th, Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 35 cents; 16th, Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 30 cents; 16th, Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 30 cents; 16th, Barton, Searcy, by blank, 30 cents; 18th, Davis, Russellville, by blank, 25 cents; 21st, Davis, Cabot, by blank, 25 cents; 21st, Williams, Arkadelphia, by blank, 60 cents; 21st, Belding, Hot Springs, by blank, 45 cents; 245 - 21st, Walker, Newport, by Watkins, 40 cents; 22d, Sam Thatch, Dar- danelle-Ola, 25 cents; 23d, Sheriff, Camden, by blank, 50 cents; 23d, Peiler, Russellville, by blank, 40 cents; 24th, Mrs. Davis, Rus- sellville, by blank, 45 cents; 24th, Grayson, Arkadelphia, by blank, 40 cents; 25th, Governor Davis, Hot Springs, by blank, 40 cents; 27th, J. J. Marbe, Wynne-Harrisburg, by blank, 50 cents; 27th, Bessie Davis, Russellville, by Mrs. Davis', 25 cents; 27th, Parks, New Lewisville, by Huddleston, 80 cents; 28th, Jacobson, Russell- ville, by blank^ 25 cents; 28th, Thatch, Dardanelle-Ola, by blank, 25 cents; 29th, Judge Davis, Russellville, by blank, 40 cents; 30th, Judge Moose, Morrilton, by blank, 25 cents; 30th, Judge Davis, Rus- sellville, by blank, 60 cents; 31st, Barnes, Fort Smith, by blank, 85 cents; total amount of the bill is $24.40. Q. The next, Colonel, is No. 2016. A. That is dated June 30, 1902. On the 2d, Jim Bush, Helena, by Governor Davis, 75 cents; 2d, O. B. Gordon, Prescott, by Gov- ernor Davis, 50 cents; 2d, Nell Davis, Arkadelphia, by Mrs. Davis, 40 cents; 3d, Bush, Helena, by Governor Davis, 55 cents; 3d, Bush, Helena, by Governor Davis, 30 cents; 3d, Alex Martin, Searcy, by Miss Martin, 30 cents; 3d, W. P. Wooten, Russellville, by Governor Davis, 40 cents; 3d, Belding, Hot Springs, by Davis, 40 cents; 4th, Bush, Helena, by Davis, $1.60; 5th, O. B. Gordon, Prescott, by Davis, ' 70 cents; 6th, L. W. Davis, Russellville, by Mrs. Davis, 25 cents; 7th, Governor Davis, Russellvile, by Jacobson, 40 cents; 8th, Gov- ernor Davis, Russellville, by Jacobson, 40 cents; 9th, O. B. Gordon, Prescott, by Davis, 50 cents; llth, Dr. J. P. Jelks, Hot Springs, by Davis, 45 cents; llth, Dr. J. P. Jelks, Hot Springs, by Davis, 30 cents; 13th, Mrs. Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, $1.00; 14th, Wooten, Russellville, by Davis, 40 cents; 19th, Mrs. Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 30 cents; 23d, Gordon, Prescott, by Davis, 50 cents: 27th, Lower, Hot Springs, by Milan, 30 cents; 29th, Bob New- ton, Camden, by Davis, 30 cents; 29th, Bob Newton, Camden, by Da- vis, 45 cents; 16th, Jacobson, Pine Bluff, by Jacobson, 55 cents; 17th, Jacobson, Pine Bluff, by Jacobson, 45 cents; total amount of bill, $15.25. Q. No. 1336. A. It is dated April 31, 1902. 1st, Judge Davis, Russellville, by Jacobson, 45 cents; 2d, Stevens' Stables, Searcy, by Governor Davis, 35 cents; 3d, Hotchkiss, Hot Springs, by Davis, 25 cents; 3d, Hatley, Russellville, by Davis, 60 cents; 3d, Judge Davis, Russell- ville, by Davis, 30 cents; 4th, John Hatley, Russellville, by Davis, 40 cents; 5th, Davis, Russellville, by Davis, 25 cents; 5th, Miss 246 Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, $1.30; 6th, Wilson, Arkadel- phia, by Davis, 60 cents; 7th, Bourland, Ozark, by Davis, 70 cents; 8th, Judge Davis, Russellville, by Mrs. Davis, 30 cents; 9th, Heer- well, Morrilton, by Davis, 30 cents; 10th, Hotchkiss, Hot Springs, by Davis, 30 cents; 13th, Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 45 cents; 14th, Governor Davis, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 60 cents; 14th Stuckey, Newport, by Haynes, 60 cents; 15th, Keel, Newport, by Jacobson, 90 cents; 15th, Gordon, Prescott, by Davis, 60 cents; 15th, Judge Davis, Russellville, by Davis, 40 cents; 16th, Mayor Belding, Hot Springs, by Davis, 45 cents; 16th, Lankford, Pine Bluff, by Davis, 25 cents; 16th, Bourland, Ozark, by Davis, 55 cents; 17th, Bob Newton, Camden, by Davis, 75 cents; 18th, Judge Davis, Rus- sellville, by blank, 40 cents; 17th, Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacob- son, 55 cents; 18th, Davis, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 30 cents; 18th, Miss Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 30 cents; 18th, Mrs. Tuck- er, Camden-El Dorado, Davis, 65 cents; 18th, Jim Richmond, Texar- kana, by Davis, 75 cents; 19th, Miss Craig, Camden-El Dorado, by Davis, 45 cents; 19th, Miss Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Jacobson, 60 cents; 21st, Arthur Scroggins, Nashville, by Huddleston, 60 cents; 25th, Miss Jacobson, Hot Springs, by Miss Jacobson, 35 cents; 28th, Judge Davis, Russellville, by Mrs. Davis, 55 cents; 28th, Mrs. Davis, Russellville, by Davis, 30 cents; 30th, Jeff Davis, Rus- sellville, by Mrs. Davis, 30 cents; 1st, Miss Baum, Memphis, by Ja- cobson, $1.20; 1st, Screeton, Carlisle, by blank, 25 cents; 3d, Miss Baum, Memphis, by Jacobson, 50 cents; 21st, Thompson, Carlisle, by Jacobson, 25 cents; 23d. Jim Thompson, Jr., Carlisle, by blank, 25 cents. The total amount of that bill is $29.84, including ths local 'phone rent from May 1 to the 31st, $1.00; February 1 to May 31, $12. Q. Colonel, with reference to voucher No. 2016, which you just read, what is the total amount of the long distance calls? A. It seems to be $12.05, and adding this $1 for the local 'phone makes it of course one dollar more. Q. How much is that, then? A. $13.05, and adding $4.00 for local 'phone, it makes it $17.50. Q. Tbat is the total of that bill? A. Yes, sir. Q, What was paid on it by the State? A. $15.25. Q. So that is $2 less than the bill, isn't it? A. Well, hardly, $1.75 I think. Q. Voucher No. 27. ^347 A. That is a Western Union bill. Q. (By Governor Davis) Will you look on this voucher that Mr. Jacobson called your attention to the deduction. How much is it for the local 'phone? A. $11.60, and $1.00 makes $12.60. Q. How much was paid on that bill, Colonel, by the State? A. $29.84. Q. How much deduction was taken off that bill from its orig- inal amount? A. $3.47. Q. Well, then, since that was taken off, that voucher would be for something like $3.47 less than that amount? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Merriman, continuing) No. 5358, I think that has been read once? A. Yes, sir; it is for the cut of James F. Rector, $2.50. Q. Well, I find one here No. 6726? A. That was expenses to the Louisiana Purchase Exposition, $40.00. (Several more vouchers were called for, Nos. 6061 and 6114, but they could not be found.) TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and fleans Committee ON Monday, March 16, 1903 INDEX. J. W. McLOUD. A. BRIZZOLARA. J. H. PAGE. JOS. W. IRWIN. FRANK DESHON. H. W. DOUGHERTY". T. L. POWELL. J. H. PAGE, Recalled. CHAS. JACOBSON. J. G. WALLACE. R. B. HOGINS, Recalled. 251 Proceedings before the Ways and Means Committee of the House of Representatives of the State of Arkansas, on the 16th day of March, 1903. Charge No. 20. J. W. McLOUD, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By General Murphy) Mr. McLoud, please state your name and what position you occupy? A. J. W. McLoud, and I am general attorney for the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Railroad. Q. You know Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know Mr. Eugene Jett? A. I think I have met Mr. Jett, but I don't know that I know him, or that I would know him if I saw him now. Q. Do you know Mr. Brizzolara? A. I may have seen him, but I don't know whether I know him or not. Q. Do you know Mr. Rother? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know Governor Davis' son? A. I have seen one of his boys, but I don't know which one it was. I don't know his name. Q. I want to ask you if it was not a fact that Governor Davis sometime during last year I believe last fall requested you to furnish transportation for a party to go out to the Indian Terri- tory, or to take a hunting party out there on a hunting trip? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you please state what you know about it? A. Yes, sir. Sometime last fall in September, I think, may have been October, but I think it was in September Governor Davis had a talk with me about going on a hunting trip out in Oklahoma or Texas, and he requested transportation for a number of his friends to take the trip, and the parties that I remember particularly were Mr. Page and Mr. Brizzolara; I do not now recall any of the other names. He consulted with me had a talk with me about where would be a good place for hunting and I recommended that he go out in the Texas Pan-Handle on the line out there Texas plains, and they decided to go out there. It was out in a country whehe there was hardly any accommodations, and i suggested to Governor Davis to take one of our coaches up there 252- to sleep in and told him I could furnish it. and afterwards a day or so afterwards, perhaps they left. But some days before the party left Governor Davis, I think, left to go up where his family was his family was up at Sulphur Springs as I understood and the party started without him; his wife was sick and he left. I believe, with the intention of joining the rest of the party at Howe, Indian Territory; this was along about the middle of the week, and the car left here the following Sunday, I think it was. I furnished the coach to the party to take along their baggage, guns, dogs, etc., and so they would have a place to sleep. Q. Mr. McLoud, this car then that was used by the Governor was hauled over the Choctaw road for him out to the end of the line A. No, sir; it was not taken out to the end of the line; it was about half way between Oklahoma and Amarillo, the place, as I recall now, was at Ramsdell, a little station where there was no houses or nothing but a siding; it was away out on the prairie where there was no accommodations at all. Q. You did then furnish a car for the use of Governor Davis and his party? A. We furnished this car, but I did not say that Governor Davis was one of the party on it; I don't know. I understood that he was going to meet the party at Howe. I suggested to him that they take a coach along to sleep in; he and a party of his friends were going out there on a hunting trip. Mr. Page and Mr. Brizzolara wera to be members of the party; these other parties I can't name, and so they just took an old coach; but as I said, I had some under- standing that Governor Davis intended to join the other members ol the party in the Indian Territory, but I don't know whether he did or not. Q. You did that, however, on Governor Davis' request? A. I did it at his request; yes, sir. I wish to state this, how- ever, that I did not furnish any transportation to Governor Davis and none was asked for by him. Q. He wanted the car for the use of the members of the party? A. No, sir; he asked his talk with me was for transportation for some of his friends to go on a hunting trip, and I understood that it was to be used by Mr. Page and some others 253 Q. But this car was hauled over the roads out there and this party that went in the car out there came back in it A. I don't know anything about that, but I understood that he wanted arrangements made for some of his friends; but whether the car went out there and returned with them or not I don't know of my own knowledge, but I suppose that it did. Q. It went out there and came back? A. I suppose it did, but I don't know. Q. And these parties that went in it were Mr. Page and Mr. Brizzolara and a few others that Governor Davis had in the party? A. I suppose so, for it was furnished for them to go in. Q. Did they pay anything for that car? A. No, sir; I have stated that Mr. Page and these other par- ties that went from here did not pay anything; they were the parties that the transportation was asked for and it was furnished them; tney were furnished that old coach or car in that way. Q. The Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Railroad did? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know of your own knowledge whether Governor Davis was one of that party? A. No, sir. I do not. Q. Did you ever hear anything as to whether he was or was not? A. It was my understanding that he joined the party at Howe, and went with them. Of course, though, that is only hearsay on my part. Q. At Howe. I. T.? A. Yes, sir. Q. And went out from there with them? A. That is my understanding; Q. Did he tell you he did, himself? A. I don't know that he ever did. Q. Did he ever talk to you about it afterwards? A. Not particularly about this. Q. Did he ever tell you, Mr. McLoud, that he had been on that hunting trip? A. I think probably he did. Q. Well, it was generally understood that he joined the party on that trip? A. That is my understanding, that he joined them. 254 Q. And went out and came back with them? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long was that car out? A. I don't know. Q. How did you go about to get this car for Governor Davis and his party; to get the Choctaw Railroad to furnish this car to take them out there from Little Rock and bring them back? A. I don't know that I requested the transportation, but I spoke to Mr. Phillips, who was then the chief clerk of the Superin- tendent's office that was some four or five days before they went and told him what I wanted. Q. It is a fact is it not that your road is always taxed by the Commission Board, composed of Governor Davis and the Auditor and Secretary of State? A. I suppose so. Q. They compose the taxing board? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long had you known Governor Davis at the time that they made that hunting trip? A. I have known him ever since I came to Little Rock about three years. Q. Have you known him intimately? A. I can't say that I know the Governor intimately. Governor Davis and I are very good friends very good personal friends. I would see him probably a dozen times a year. Q. Now how many times did you ever furnish a private citizen with transportation over the Choctaw road? A. I have done it lots of times; I don't know how many. Q. Outside of the members of this party, did you ever furnish any private citizen transportation or a Choctaw car over the Choc- taw Railroad from Little Rock A. Yes, sir, a number of them. Q. Who to? A. Yes, sir; I can't recall just who. But Mr. Joe Irwin. I don't just remember any others now. But I furnished him trans- portation. Q. Did you furnish him a car? A. No, sir. Q. You just furnished him transportation, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. 255 Q. But not a car? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever furnish Joe Irwin transportation for a large party of friends? A. No; I don't think there was a large party, but I think there was some two or three with him. Q. You just gave them passes; that was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. But you gave them no car? A. No. sir. Q. Now what other instances did you ever give anybody a car? A. They just had the car along to sleep in, as I knew it was an open country and no accommodations out there, and I did it as a matter of courtesy. Q. You furnished that to this party from Little Rock out to the Pan-Handle in Texas? A. Yes, sir. Q. On what other occasions have you ever furnished a car to anybody I mean a private party or parties A. I don't recall anybody except railroad men. Q. Well, they had a kind of a privilege, didn't they? A. Yes, sir. Q. You yourself could go on a trip or a hunting trip and take whoever you wanted to with you? A. Yes, sir. Q. So Governor Davis is the only one you can remember except the time you gave Mr. Irwin a pass? A. There was a party that went out there last winter, but I would not say positively that they were or were not railroad people. But they went in a car from here, I know. Q. Where did you see Governor Davis when you had this talk with him? A. I don't recall whether in his office or on the street, but I think it was in his office. Q. Did you approach him or did he approach you? A. I think he opened the matter to me by asking about a good place to hunt prairie chickens; that was how the conversation came up. Q. Now what time did you say that the conversation came up the conversation that you had with Governor Davis, when you told him that you would furnish him a car? -256 A. As I stated, that was along about the middle of the week, as near as I can recall, and the party were to leave the next Sunday. Q. Now, then, what steps did you take to get a car, Mr. McLoud? A. I simply went to the Superintendent's office and told him what I wanted Q. Who was the Superintendent at that time? A. Mr. Wentz. Q. He is the Vice President of the road now, is he not? A. No, sir; he is simply the General . Q. His office is here, or was here? A. Yes, sir. My conversation was with his assistant or Mr. Phillips, his clerk. Q. It was procured through Mr. Wentz ? A. Yes, sir. Q. Won't that office show the records in regard to this car? A. I don't know. I don't know what the number of the car was. I can't tell you anything about it. Q. What did you tell Mr. Wentz? A. About this party wanting to go up to the Territory to hunt? Q. Well, what did you tell him in regard to the party about why you wanted this car A. I told him I had suggested to the Governor that they have a car and asked him for it. I suggested to the Governor, so I told him, that we could let him have a car, and told him if he had ? car to let him have it. Q. And he said he would? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he got it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did the Governor agree to take the car or did he object to taking it? A. 1 have told you the arrangements I had with the Governor, that I would try to get a car for these parties, and I made the arrangements and advised him of it. That was all my own sugges- tion and without his solicitation. Q. Your road has never received any pay for that car? A. No, sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. McLoud, I want to ask you one or two questions. You say that I told you that Mr. Page and Mr. Brizzolara and some other parties wanted to go on a hunt? 257 A. Yes. sir Q. And asked you a good place out there in the western country for hunting prairie chickens? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you thought it was a good place out about this place Ramsdell ? A. Yes, sir. Q. All I asked you: if you could state where there was a good place to hunt out there A. Yes, sir. Q. And I did not ask you for any transportation for myself, nor did you receive any pay for it? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. This matter of the car, now wasn't that just an ordinary old day coach that was down there on the side-track and you told me that you could furnish that so the parties could have some place to sleep when they got out there? A. Yes, sir. Q. That there was no accommodations out there and they would have had to sleep out on the prairie A. Yes, sir; nothing out there in the way of accommodations. Q. And didn't you ask me if I was going in the party and didn't I tell you that my wife was sick and I did not know whether I could leave or not, but that I would like to go, but I did not know whether I could leave or not A. Yes, sir. Q. And I went on home and you arranged the matter for these parties these other parties? A. Yes. sir/ Q. Now, as a matter of fact, did you all furnish any liquors A. No, sir. we did not. Q. Did you furnish anything to eat? A. We did not furnish anything. Q. And so you furnished me no transportation upon fhis occa- sion at all? A. TCo, sir. Q. I only asked you for it for a party of friends from the State and you stated that you could furnish it, or could arrange it for me? A. Yes. sir. Q. And that is all there is to it? A. Yes. sir. Testimony 9. 258 Q. And I didn't pay you for that car, and it was just an old day coach that you furnished for the party, just simply for the accommodation of the parties while out there just let them have it just an old day coach to drag out there to sleep in? A. Yes, sir. Q. And tiiat is all there is to it about this special car over the Choctaw road? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Farrar L. McCain, Esq.) After Governor Davis asked you for that car then you went and arranged with Superintendent Wentz for Mr. Page and these others and arranged that they should not have to pay any fare for it? A. I didn't make any arrangements for Governor Davis in ask- ing for the car. Q. You just intimated that he wanted a car for a party of friends? A. Yes, sir. Q. Mr. Wentz could tell who came and went in the car couldn^t he? A. I don't know. Q. You asked for that car, however, on the request of Gov- ernor Davis? A. Asked for transportation, yes, sir. Q. Do you remember the other gentlemen of this party? A. I think I have stated several of them. Q. Did you ever have any conversation with them about it? A. I don't think I had with them; I think I had a conversation with Mr. George Lee about it, or about what was repeated about it. [ don't think we talked much about it. Q. The only member of that party then that you talked to about this car was Governor Davis himself? A. That is all to my recollection. Q. What did you do about the accommodation did you furnish the car to accommodate Governor Davis? A. I say I furnished a car at my request to Governor Davis; or rather at my suggestion. It was merely a courtesy that I would do to anybody else under the same circumstances. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) What personal knowledge have you that Governor Davis was to benefit by that accommodation? A. Nothing for Governor Davis, only that the party would hare the use of the car to sleep in on this hunting trip. 259 Q. Do you know of your own personal knowledge that Governor Davis was a beneficiary of that accommodation? A. I do not know of my own personal knowledge that Governor Davis was ever in the car or had anything to do with it, only what I know from general information. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Was there an understanding with Gov- ernor Davis what disposition he was to make of the use of that car; who he was going to take with him; or that he could take whoever he saw proper? A. No, sir, I don't know of such an understanding, and as to who went I can't say. I can't say that the Governor mentioned the names of the parties or all of them that were going with him. He said a number of his friends wanted to go out a hunting and asked me where was a good place. That is all I know on that. I want to say this, however, I have never once, nor has the company to my knowledge, ever asked Governor Davis, or any other State official for any favor at any time. Q. (By Governor Davis) The specification here says some- thing about I got this accommodation from the Choctaw & Memphis Railroad. There is no such road as that, is there? A. No, sir; no such road as that. It is the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Railroad Company, a corporation organized under the laws of the United States. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Is not the Choctaw & Memphis Rail- road the same as the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf? A. No, sir; never was. Q. (By Governor Davis) I make no point on that as to the name of the road. If I got a car at all it come from Mr. McLoud's road. That is the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf. Q. (By Oolonel Murphy) Mr. McLoud, you knew that Gover- nor Davis was one of the three members that had the taxing power of the road, didn't you? A. I of course knew that there was four or five members of that board and that he was one of them. Q. I want to ask you if you would have given that car to just anybody that would have come along and asked you for it? A. I don't think I would to anybody that just came along and asked for it; no, sir. Q. Then I will ask you if the position that Governor Davis held didn't have some influence with you in letting him have it? 260 A. It may have done so; but I considered it merely as an accommodation^ and would have done the same with you or any other man. Q. You don't mean to say that you would have given ft to me? A. Yes, sir; I do mean to say that I would have extended the same courtesy to you. Q. Or to any other man here a private citizen or officer? A. I did not say that. Q. TBy Governor Davis) Colonel Murphy asked you if you didn r t know that I was one of the members of the taxing board; now I want to ask you if two of the prosecutors in tliis action, Mr. Monroe and Mr. Crockett, are also members of that taxing board? A. Yes, sir. Q. They are, aren't they? A. Yes, sir. I think so. Q. And that they and the other two members of the board represent the majority and they have the balance of power they are the majority on that taxing board? A. Yes, sir. no doubt about that. Q. You did not furnish anything and never have to me at my request, but it was for these other gentlemen? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Now Mr. Crockett or Colonel Mon- roe never have asked you for a car over your road, have they? A. No. sir. Q. IBy Governor Davis) Neither have I. have I? A. No, sir. Q. You understood that the car was to be furnished and was furnished for the accommodation of these other gentlemen? A. That is the case. So far as I know that is the actual fact. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Well pray tell us what the Governor did ask for? A. For transportation for some of his friends to go hunting and I furnished it in the shape of this car, A. BRIZZOLARA, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By General Murphy) What is your name? A. A. Brizzolara. Q. Where do you live? A. Little Rock, Ark. S81 Q. Do you know the Governor of this State? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever take a trip with him out West in a a hunt? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where to? A. To some place in Texas; I can't tell you now the nai I don't know. Q. Over what road? A. Over the Choctaw. Q. DM you have a car of your own to go A. Yes, sir. Q. Your party did? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you obtain it? A. I don't know, sir. Q. Do you know who solicited it? A. I do not. Q. How did you learn that there was such a convenience to be furnished over the road? A. Why, Mr. Page invited me to go along, and I usually go whenever I have the opportuntiy. Q. How long before you started was it that Mr. Page invited you? A. I couldn't say; several days possibly. Q. Well, did Mr. Page tell you how you were to go out, what conveniences had been furnished? A. No, sir, I did not know that. Q. Did you ascertain that it was going to be or was to be a cosQess trip so far as transportation was concerned? A. No, sir, I didn't know anything about it. Q. He didn't tell you whether you would be charged railroad fare or not? A. No, sir. Q. Did he tell you who was going in the party? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he tell you how many? A. No, sir. Q. Did he tell you at the time that you were going out on a hunt? A. Yes, sir. . _ 262 Q. And you say you had your own car? A. Yes, sir, there was a coach there. Q. You went out to the Pan-Handle in Texas? A. Yes, sir, Ramsdell, I think. Q. How long did you stay our there with that car? A. Five or six days. , Q. Who was with you? A. When we left here? Q. Who was with you anywhere from the time you left here or anywhere in the territory out there, going or coming back, or while there the whole business of it? A. I can't recall the names of some of them; but Mr. Page and Governor Davis was out there and Mr. Rother and myself. Q. Any others? A. There was three or four gentlemen from different parts of the State. Q. Who were they? A. I don't know. Q. Did you understand whose party it was to be? A. Why, it was Mr. Page's, so far as I know. Q. Did you understand how he had gotten the conveniences? A. I did not, sir. Q. Did you pay any transportation yourself out there? A. I did not. Q. Neither there nor back? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know who did pay it? A. No, sir. Q. Where did Governor Davis join your party? A. At Howe, I believe. Q. Going out or coming back? A. Going out. Q. Was that the second or the first day after you left here, or what day on your trip out there? A. We left here in the afternoon, and it must have been the next morning, but I don't remember about that, however whenever the train gets to Howe. Q. Do you remember how long the trip was from Howe on out to where you finally stopped the car? A. No, sir, I don't remember. 263 Q. Was it a day, or more than a day, after you left Howe? A. A day after that, I believe. I believe we got there in the afternoon; might have been possibly a day something like a day, I think. Q. Did you stop and live in the car while you were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you stayed out there five or six days? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you returned? K. Tes, sir. Q. Who returned as members of the party? A. Well, all those that went out there. Q. That is just what I want to get at; name all who went out there with you, if you can? A. I can't name all of them. There was Mr. Page and Mr. Rother and myself and Governor Davis' son, I think, and Mr. Cowling, and some gentlemen however, I did not know their names. Q. When they got ready to come back did they not notify the train to hitch that car on to it? A. Yesi sir. Q. Who notified the company that you were ready to have your car hitched on to a train and pulled out? A. I can't tell you. Q. You don't know who gave that order? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know whether a telegraph message was sent or that some local official out at Ramsdell was ordered to do it? A. I don't know, I can't tell you. Q. Who did you pay in coming back from your trip in the way of fare? A. Paid no one. Q. Did you see the conductor coming back? A. Yes, sir. I believe he was in the car on several occasions. Q. Did he collect- anything from the party or not? A. If he did I didn't know it. Q. Do you know whether the conductor at the time he was In there did you see him collecting anything from any of them? A. No, sir; he didn't collect any from me. Q. Wasn't it the understanding, or wasn't it your understand- ing all the way through, that you were to pay no transportation no fare? I 264 A. I was an invited guest, and I presumed that part of it had been attended to. No, I paid none and wasn't asked for any. Q. What was your understanding in the beginning that you was not to pay any? A. There was no understanding at all, so far as I know. Q. When you left here did you leave with the impression on your mind that you would have to pay fare for your trip or not? A. I had no impression about it at all. If the conductor had come along and asked me for my fare I would have paid it. But he didn't ask for it and I didn't pay. Q. You didn't have any means of knowing as to whether you was to have a separate car to go in? A. Not then I did before we left. Q. You didn't, when you were invited, know that your party was going to have a separate car to go in? A. I didn't know that but the day before. Q. Did you know, or did you understand before you had left, or just before, that your party was to have a separate car to go in? A. I understood it the preceding day the day before. Q. Did you understand that you and your party were to pay for that separate car or not? A. No, sir, I didn't understand it at all. Q. (By Farrar L. McCain, Esq.) You just didn't pay anything? A. No, sir. Q. You were just an invited guest of Mr. Page's? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did Davis ever talk to you about this since then or before that time? (Put tkat Governor Davis.) A. Well, he did, yes, sir; we had a little talk. Q. What did he say about it? A. He spoke of having made arrangements for a hunting trip. I didn't "know when nor where nor how we was going, or anything of the kind; but I didn't have any objections to going whenever the opportunity offers itself. Q. When Mr. Page informed you about the trip then you understood that it was the same hunting trip that Governor Davis had spoken to you about? A. Yes, sir. Q. And in consequence of these conversations with Governor Davis and Mr. Page you went along considering yourself a guest to A. Yes, sir, a guest of Mr. Page's. He was the man that invited me to go. Q. WEo first spoke to you about it? A. I can't tell you. Q. Governor Davis had told you about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You went then as his guest? A. Yes, sir. Q. Went as a guest because it didn't cost you anything? A. I didn't say it didn't cost me anything. Q. I am talking about the arrangements on the transportation, .Mr. Brizzolara? I don't mean as to refreshments, etc.? A. No, sir. Q. Didn't Governor Davis invite you to go himself? A. No, sir; Mr. Page invited me to go. Q. Didn't Governor Davis talk to you about it? A. We talked about a trip, one before that and since. Q. Did Page ever speak to you about it? A. I can't say that he did, I don't remember. Q. Did Governor Davis ever talk to you about this particular trip? A. He talked to me about taking a trip hunting out in the Territory. Q. "(By Governor Davis) Now you spoke of this place Rams- dell; is it not just a little station depot away out on the bald, bare prairie without any houses close? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where the party would have been compelled to sleep out on the ground; there was no accommodations there, w 1 - ihe-*e? A. No, sir, no houses there. Q. It is not a town? A. No, sir. Q. Just out in the prairie? A. Yes, sir. Q. And whatever we had to eat, and things of that kind, we carried or was carried by the party? A. Yes, sir. Q. That we cooked out there on the prairie (I didn't do much of the cooking, but the party did) ? A. Yes, sir. Q. In an old pot? A. Tes, sir. 266 Q. And eat off of boards, or a plank? A. Yes, sir. Q. And slept in the car? A. Yes, sir. Q. We didn't have any special car with porterhouse steaks and a negro waiter with white apron furnished us did we? A. No, sir. Q. It was just an old day coach hauled out there for us to sleep in? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you were invited by Mr. Page and not by me? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you considered yourself a guest of Mr. Page and not my guest? A. Yes, sir. Q. I joined you at' Howe, Indian Territory, didn't I? A. Yes, sir. Q. "Whatever eatables and things of that kind we had. the party carried with them? A. Yes, sir. Q. The railroad furnished nothing? A. No, sir. Q. And there is no truth in this specification that we had a negro cook with a white apron and porterhouse steaks and champagne? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. McCain) If you hadn't had this car you would have to have had big tents and things, which you would have carried as baggage? A. Yes, sir; either done that or slept out in the air or on the ground. There was no accommodations whatever. J. H. PAGE, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Farrar L. McCain, Esq.) What is your position and your name, please? A. My name is J. H. Page, I am secretary of the Board of Charitable Institutions. Q. How long have you been secretary of the Board of Char- ities? A. About two years, I think. Q. Where do you live? A. Little Rock. 267 Q. Where did you live before you came to Little Rock? I lived at Dardanelle; I am 34 years old and have bewi vaccinated. Q. You came from Bradley County also, did you not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever go on a hunting trip with the Governor? A. Yes, sir, I went on one in the Pan-Handle. Q. Was the Governor along? A. Yes, sir. he was out there. Q. Who made the arrangements for that trip, you or the Governor? A. Well, in what respect? Q. About getting the car to go out there? A. I don't know. Q. Didn't you invite a lot of guests to go with you? A. I invited some parties, yes, sir. Q. How did you happen to invite them if you didn't know who made the arrangements for the coach? A. Well, sir, I just happened to invite them. Q. How and why? A. Verbally. Q. At whose instance? A. Why, I invited Mr. Brizzolara at my own instance. Q. Who invited you? A. I don't know that I was invited. Q. How did you know that you were going then? A. I wanted to go. Q. Who with? A. I asked the other parties as guests to go out there. Q. With Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you must have been invited to go? A. No, sir; must not have been. Q. Then you just took the authority? A. Yes, sir. Q. You assumed the authority to go along with the party? A. No, sir. Q. But you went? A. Yes, sir. Q. You were not asked to go? A, No, sir. 268 Q. By Governor Davis? A. No, sir. Q. Didn't you go? I A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you pay any transportation? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Are you in the habit of riding over the railroads free of charge ? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you get that transportation? A. That is my business. Q. Well, yes, and it may be the committee's business. I would like to konw. Did you ride on a pass? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you got that pass? A. No, sir. I have not. Q. Who issued it to you? A. Mr. George H. Lee. Q. Did the other members of the party have a pass? A. I think some of them did. Q. Did all of them have passes? A. I can't say about that. Q. Did Governor Davis have a pass? A. No, sir. Q. How did you happen to know that that particular car was going on that trip? A. I had been advised that it was. Q. Who advised you? A. Mr. Williams. Q. Of the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf road ? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did he happen to advise you? A. You will have to ask him that. Q. Well, sir, we will ask him, but we are asking you? A. I don't know. Q. Where does Mr. Williams live? A. I don't know that. Q. Wh~ere did he live at the time he advised you? A. In Little Rock. Q. How long had you known him? A. I didn't know him at all. 269 Q. How did he advise you? A. Over the telephone, I thin,,. Q. You didn't know him at all? A. No, sir. Q. You had never seen him? A. No, sir. Q. Well, to aid ycur memory a little, Mr. Page: This was a trip in which it has been admitted that Governor Davis requested transportation to go out to the Indian Territory. Now I will ask if you went along at Governor Davis' request or invitation? A. Are you asking me? Q. I am asking you if you did or not? A. Ko, sir. Q. You just went as one of the party then? Now, you will not say that the first that you knew about the trip was when Mr. Williams telephoned you about it? A. No, sir. Q. How did you happen to know about it? A. I think I had talked it over with some of tKe other members of the party. Q. With who; just tell us who? A. Over with the Governor and talked it over with quite a number here. Q. What was your conversation with the Governor? A. I can't tell you what it was. Q. What did you talk about in that conversation, about that hunting trip and the old day coach; what was your conversation? A. Why, I don't know that I can recall what it was. Q. A\bout what not the exact language? A~. Well, it was to the effect that we were going out there on a hunting trip. Q. That we were going out there? A. Yes, sir. Q. How were we going? A. Why, we were going on the railroad. Q. How were we going on the railroad walk the ties or in a coach, or how? How did you talk about going; the way you would get out there? A. We talked about going out there and making a trip. Going nit there and hunt prairie chickens. Q. Did you talk about a party? A. Talked about taking three or four friends. 270 Q. You talked about it before you made your arrangements to go? A. I made my arrangements. I had no arrangements to make, practically. Q. You invited Mr. Brizzolara? A. Yes, sir. Q. You made that just on your own authority? A. No, sir. Q. You didn't arrange A. I had authority to invite Mr. Brizzolara to go. Q. From whom did you have authority? A. From Mr. George H. Lee. Q. What is his official position? A. General Passenger Agent of the Choctaw. Q. Mr. Wentz, didn't he give you authority to invite anybody? A. No, sir. Q. Didn't Governor Davis? A. No, sir. Q. Then Mr. Lee made the arrangements to take the party out there? A. No, sir. Q. Who did? A. I don't know. Q. Well, do you know that Mr. Lee did not do it? A. I don't know that he did not make the arrangements for 'he party. Q. But you don't know whether he did or did not? A. No. sir. Q. You don't know whether Governor Davis did or not? A. It would have been possible for him to have made a good many arrangements that I didn't know anything about. Q. Do you know who asked for the car? A. No, sir. My understanding was, though, that Mr. McLoud had directed the car to be sent up for the party to go out there. Q. What party? A. Well, a party of our friends. Q. Who was in charge of that party; just give the names of the members of the party? A. Is there any one particular person that you want to ask about? 271 Q. I want to know all of them? A. Each one? Q. Yes. There was Mr. Brizzolara? A. Yes, sir. And Governor Davis. Q. Yes. And you went? A. Yes, sir. Q. How who else went? A. Governor Davis' son. Q. Now who else was there? A. There was Mr. Morehead. Q. Of Malvern, Hot Spring, Ark.? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who else? A. Mr. Cowling. Q. Where was Mr. Cowling from? A. I don't know. I think he lived down in the southern part of the State. Q. Do you know what his first name was? A. No, sir; I don't know what his initials were. Q. Were the arrangements made with Mr. Cowling about the car? A. I don't know. Q. Was he interested in the road in any way? A. I don't know. Q. Were the arrangements made with Mr. Williams about the car? A. I don't know. Q. Governor Davis? A. I don't know. Q. With you? A. I don't know. I was advised by Mr. Williams that the car would be there. Q. How did you happen to be advised by Mr. Williams? A. Because Ee advised me. Q. He advised you about it when he never had seen you, or rather you never had seen him? A. Certainly; that is nothing impossible. Q. How did he happen to know about advising you? A. You will have to ask Mr. Williams about that. Q. You stated that you did not know Mr. Williams personally. A. I do not. 272 Q. How long did you stay out there? A. Four or five days. Q. You didn't pay any railroad fare? A. No, sir. Q. Either going or coming? A. No, sir. Q. The party had a car to themselves? A. Not necessarily. Q. The car was sent out for you folks to sleep in? A. Yes, sir. Q. You went out and came back in it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you actually did have it to yourselves? A. I don't know. Not necessarily. Q. As a matter of fact you have stated that you did. A. Yes, sir; but other parties rode in it also. Q. Who? A. Well, sir, I can't tell you. Q. Joseph Irwin is the only one together with your party, isn't he? A. I don't remember whether he did or not. Q. What do you remember about that trip, Mr. Page? A. Very little. I don't think I can tell you. Q. Do you remember that you went on the trip at, all? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are certain about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you eat while you were out there? A. Sometimes in the coach and sometimes out on a plaijk. AiX'Und where the cooking was done. Q. Who did the cooking? A. I think Mr. Brizzolara did most of it. Q. You are certain that you went on that trip? A. Yes, sir. Q. And so you don't know anything at all as a matter of fact about this trip except that Mr. Williams telephoned you that there would be a car down there or a coach for this hunting praty and you went down there and went aboard that car and went out there and came back, and these parties were on there; now isn't that about all you know abo'jt that trip? A. I don't think that I have given any such testimony as that. 273 Q. What have you testified to? You can now just tell the stenographer what your recollection is about that trip? A. If you will ask the questions intelligently instead of the way you have of questioning me asking me things, so far as I know I will tell you. I have no disposition or want to evade any- thing or get around anything. Q. I see that very readily, Mr. Page. How did you happen to get into that party after Mr. Williams telephoned you, or how did you know they were going on a hunting trip until he telephoned to you? How did you know who was going on it? A. Well, sir, I knew definitely at the time who was going on it. Q. How did you know? A. I had seen some of the parties; talked with some of them: seen some of them that morning, and seen others from time to time and talked with them about it. Q. Who had you seen? A. Mr. Morehead. Q. Where did you see him? A. n was at the Statehouse. Q. WEat did he state about it? A. He said he was going. Q. Where did you see him? A. At the Statehouse. I said. Q. Where abouts? A. Right there in front of the Treasurer's office. Q. "What did you say? A. T can't remember what I said. Q. Who invited Mr. Morehead, do you know? A. No, sir, I don't know. Q. Did you invite him? A. I did not. Q. Didn't he say anything about who invited him? A. No, sir, I don't think he told me. Q. Did he know that Governor Davis was going? A. I can't say whether he did or not. Q. You knew it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Didn't you say anything about it? A. I don't know whether I did or not. 274 Q. This Is the same Jim Morehead who is the sheriff of Hot Spring County now? A. Yes, sir. Q. You don't know who invited him? A. No, sir. Q. He was invited, however, by someone, you don't know who? A. He just came by me and said he was going with the hunt- ing party. Q. Did you tell him that you were going? A. Yes. sir. Q. When were you going when did you leave here; on Satur- day or Sunday? A. I think on Sunday. Q. How did he say he kiiew you all were going? A". I don't think he specified exactly how he come to get the information; I don't recollect whether he told me how he heard it. Q. How long had you known Jim Morehead? A. I don't know; about three months. Q. Perhaps three months? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long had you known the rest of the party excepting Governor Davis? A. That is an indefinite question. I don't know definitely which one of them you mean. Q. Why how long had you known Brizzolara? A. A year or more. Q. How long the rest of the party just on an average? A". Never knew Mr. Cowling at all before. Q. Now then, Mr. Page, didn't you go on another trip with Governor Davis, going the other way, with a considerable party? A. I have been on a good many with him. Q. How many trips have you been with him? A. I can't say. The chair here cautioned the respective parties to keep their testimony within the limits covered by charge No. 20. Q. (By Governor Davis) I wasn't in town the time you started was I? A. No, sir. Q. Where did I join the party? A. Al Howe. I. T.. I think. Q. My family during that summer were in Sulphur Springs and didn't I go up there first? A. Yes, sir. Q. And did you not tell me write me a letter telling me that party would pass Howe, I. T., on a certain day? A. Yes, sir. Q. And didn't you understand that my wife was sick and it was ibtful whether I could go at all or not? A. Yes, sir, you said that when you left here to go up there. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) I understood you to say that you had a pass? A. Yes. sir. Q. On whose account did you ride on that pass? A. Why that is rather a difficult question to answer, I think. Q. Well, perhaps I can put it in a different way; in collecting the fares of the passengers did the conductor examine that pass? A. I don't remember whether he did or not. They knew the number of the pass and frequently they did not see it at all. Q. Were you acquainted with the conductor on that train? A. I don't remember that there was a conductor; I presume there was, though. Q. You don't remember whether he approached you for the transportation ticket or the pass? A. No, sir. Q. Did you pay anything? A. No, sir. Q. Did any other members of that company have any trans- portation ticket or pass or pay anything? A. I don't know. I can't say. Q. Did you see them paying anything? A. I don't know. Q. Could you have seen them if they did? A. Not necessarily so. I don't presume that they did, though. Q. Did I understand you to say that there was other passengers besides your party riding in that car? A. There was some outside of the party came in there and talked with some of the party; yes, sir. Q. Did any of them leave Little Rock outside of your com- pany? A. No, sir. 276 Q. Did any return with you to your point of destination from your point of departure except your party? A. No, sir, no one else. It was just a side-track out there. There is one thing that I would like to state about that pass ; I want to say that I have a pass as the editor of a newspaper and have one all the time but at present is at home. I get them on advertising account. Q. (By Mr. McCain) If Mr. McLoud says that he furnished this transportation who is mistaken, you or him; you say that you furnished transportation to two or three of your friends on that trip; did you furnish it? A. No, sir. Q. You are positive about that? A. No, sir, I did not furnish the transportation. I didn't have any transportation except niy own ; consequently I could not furnish it to two or three others. JOSEPH W. IRWIN being first duly sworn, deposes and testi- fies as follows: Q. (By Mr. McCain) Your name is Joseph W. Irwin? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are the manager of the Capital Hotel? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember a hunting trip last fall that Governor Davis and a party of friends went on out in the Texas country? A. I was on the train coming from Texola and Oklahoma and Governor Davis and his party were on the same train. Q. What time did you see them and where did you see them? A. I saw them the next morning at breakfast at Sayre. Q. Was there a party of them together? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were they on a coach of their own? A. They were on the train when I seen them; and it was my impression that they had a car. Q. There is no question but what Governor Davis was there? A. No. sir. Q. Who else was on there Mr. Page? A. Yes, sir, and Mr. Brizzolara and Mr. Rother and Mr. More- head, I think, and I think there was two or three little boys in the part?. 277 Q. Was that on the trip returning home? A. Yes, sir. Q. There can be no doubt but what Governor Davis was along? A. No, sir. Governor Davis And I don't reckon I have ever disputed that Governor Davis was not along. FRANK DESHON on oath, being by the chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Testimony adduced relating to Charge No. 13. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Where do you reside, Mr. Deshon? A. Little Rock. Q. What is your business? A. Manager of the Southwestern Telegraph & Telephone Com- pany. Q. The long distance as well as the local? A. No. sir. Q. In this city? A. No. sir. Q. Did you have any arrangement with Governor Davis by which he was to have a reduction on the amounts of his long dis- tances messages, or a rebate on them ? A. Nothing more than that he is a large user, has a large business and he wrote me a letter asking for a reduction the same as I give on other large users, and it was granted him. Q. What was the amount of that rebate? A\ Fifteen per cent. Q. Who has the letter? A. I suppose the officials have it. I forwarded it to the head- quarters at Dallas. Q. Tou don't know whether it is there now or not? A. No, sir, but I suppose it is. Q. Who did the collecting for the long distance messages? A. The collector did it; I don't know who he was; whoever hap- pened to be on tliat route; we had a number of collectors, and I presume that they all done the collecting at different times. Q. Can you give the names of the persons who did the collect- ins? A. We had a Mr. Brickhouse and Mr. Dougherty and Mr. Glea- son and Mr. Brown; they all collected from there, and I presume a dozen others 278 Q. Have you got books in the office showing the collection of these accounts? A. We have a day book that the chief collector writes up. Q. Do you know how these long distance telephone messages were paid? A. I presume they were paid like any other account. Q. Are you not able to tell us anything about how these bills were paid that were paid to Mr. Dougherty and these other collec- tors that presented them? A. I can't say. Q. You don't know whether they were paid by voucher on the Auditor and then by a warrant or not? A. No, sir. Q. You then say that you are unable to tell anything about it yourself? A. I did not say that; I said that We send the bills out and get the money. Q. Do you know anything about how the accounts were paid? A. No, sir, nothing more than the collector turns in his report of the collections. Q. You don r t make out the bills? A. The clerk makes them out; he makes out all the bills. Q. You are not able to tell us then anything about it? A. Nothing further than I would notice generally as to how the business is handled. Q. Are you able to state to the committee whether the private telephones of Mr. Jacobson and Governor Davis at their mansions were merged in with these long distance telephone bills and paid or not in that way? A. No, sir, I cannot. Q. Could your collector, Mr Dougherty, or anybody else? A. I don't know. They were given the bills and went out and collected them and brought in what he collected, and I don't know. I never asked any questions only in a general way or about some bill. Q. You did know that there was a reduction granted to him, though ? A. Yes, sir; we did with him as with any other large user. 279 Q. Was the reduction on the long distance messages and the local phone as well? A. "Long distance. Q. Did you send them all out together? All the bills that per- tained to that office? A. I presume the clerk gave the bills to the collector that had that route for collecting. I presume so. Q. (By Farrar L. McCain) What is your custom down there about presenting your bills for the telephones and messages on long distance phones? A. Well, if the customer desires it we make a monthly bill, otherwise we make a daily bill and send it at the end of the month; they are then all sent out together; this has been in force about a year; prior to that we tried to keep them separate. Q. Prior to one year A. I can't say; it was some time back. Q. Your books will show that, however? A. Well the books show as to who did the collectingg. We keep no books here; no regular books; we send in our daily reports to the general office at Dallas. Reports from the branch offices are all sent in there daily. Q. Who is your manager? "A. Mr. Farnsworth. Q. Where is he? A. Dallas, Texas. Q. Then you don't keep any of the original memorandums o;' your credit business in your office? A. No, sir, they are made up and sent to Texas where the general books are made up; we send a list there of the charges and credits from this office. Q. What day was it that this discount went into effect? A. I can't remember; it has been in effect for some time; along about June. I wouldn't say; probably a year. It was nothing more than an ordinary discount that we give other large users on their bills. Q. Then you gave this reduction to the Governor because he was a large user? A. On account of the business; he made a request stating that he could not buy coupons because he was an official of the State and although he knew that was the custom, yet he was prohibited 280 from Buying them, and asked that he be given a reduction on the iccount of his business. Q. Who has that letter of the Governor, requesting a reduction? A. It was sent on to the headquarters with a statement of the imount of business and a request that it be granted, like we do any Dther large users. Q. Did you keep a copy of that letter? A. No, sir. Q. Would it be possible for you to get a copy of that letter for the committee? A. I don't know. It has been a long time back. Q. Now what information did you give the .collector who made this collection about giving a rebate on his bills, how were those bills collected? A. We charged the bill in full charged the messages in full and took a rebate voucher in payment for the discount. Q. Then when you presented the Governor a bill say for here is a copy of one, six items on it; now that was figured up and charged on your books now at $28.15; that is the total amount of the bill, isn't it? A. I don't remember. The books would show the amount of the bill and the date of it. Q. Well then when your collector went around to collect that he just gave a discount on it and took a voucher for it A. Took a voucher for it; yes, sir. Q. Profm whom? A. From .Governor Davis. After he discounted it he had to either turn in the money or a voucher for the entire amount of that bill less the discount, for which he took a receipt. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Deshon, is it not possible that the letter that you referred to was written by Mr. Jacobson? A. I don't know, Governor; it was from the Governor's office. Q. Well now, Mr. Deshon, for an illustration, we will take a bill for $30 the face of the bills amount to $30 and you have your chief collector go to the office for the $30 and he would get a voucher for the $30 less the fifteen per cent discount $4.50 for $25.50, wouldn't he? A. I don't know, but the ordinary business way of doing it would be for him to get a voucher for the $25.50 and have the receipt of Governor Davis for the $4.50 for the discount. 281 Q. Then the State got the benefit of that discount, didn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. How could I steal anything that way? A. I don't see how you could. Q. That is the same way the merchants do is it not, only the reason as you say the letter stated, the reason I did not buy coupons in advance is because I could not. the law would not allow me to, and there is no money provided for me to buy these things in advance and I just asked you for a reduction. A. My recollection is that in your letter you stated that the law would not allow you to buy coupons and you just asked for the reduction that we granted other customers. Q. Yes, sir; now you carry a bill to a merchant and he owes you $30, but he has got the coupons and you give him the mer- chant would have to buy coupons and he would pay $4.50 rebate in his coupons, and he got the rebate when he purchased the coupons, and so on a bill for $30 when it was presented my office would simply send you a receipt for the $4.50 that would be the business like way to do it and send a voucher for the $25.50? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then nobody would be the loser except the telephone company? A. No, sir. Q. And they give this rebate according to the amount of bus- iness? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now is that stealing anything? A. No. sir. Q. Could it be possible to steal anything? A. I don't think so. Q. The only way on earth for me to get anything out of it for me to get a dollar by that transaction would be by the collector giving me back the money on the rebate? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the collector would be supposed to get the difference, v/ouldn't he, from the amount of the bill and the rebate less the rebate? A. Yes, sir. 282 Q. He would have to make return in your office for the amount of the Bills less any reduction, would he not? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is true? A. Yes, sir. All I know about it is that Governor Davis asked for tliis rebate, and we presumed it was given to Governor Davis for the benefit of the State. Q. CGovernor Davis reading) "The Governor early in the year 1902 made an arrangement with the Southwestern Telegraph & Telephone Company whereby he was to receive a rebate of fifteen per cent on long distance telephone communications" That is true? A. Yes, sir. Q. "Thereafter had the vouchers for the payment thereof made out for the full amount and sometimes even larger," is that true? A. Not that I know of. sir. Q. "And instead of giving the State the benefit of the reduc- tion made use of it in paying for the private telephones in use by himself, his private secretary and others, at their private residences and elsewhere," now was it possible for me to do that? I would have to give you a receipt for it wouldn't I? A. Yes, sir. Q. Would it be possible for me to use that receipt in paying for my private telephone? A. No. sir. Q. It would not be possible? A. No, sir. Q. "His private secretary and others, and their private resi- dences and elsewhere;" now would it be possible for me with this discount to pay for my telephone at my private residence? A. No, sir. Q. That discount was given on long distance business and could not be used; would it be possible for me to pay for my private 'phone at my residence with that kind of A. No, sir. Q. That is your opinion of the matter? A. Yes, sir. Q. "The usual course being to have the vouchers made for the long distance messages, and without reference to the private 'phones and messages," now when you sum that all up there is absolutely 283 nothing in it is there, except that you gave a reduction to me just like you give to merchants and everybody else that have a large amount of business? A. Yes, sir. Q. The face of the bill was reduced, the fifteen per cent reduc- tion on the full amount of the bill would be made and he would get a voucher for the balance? A. Yes, sir. Q. He would bring you the money or the voucher for that balance? A. Yes, sir; generally brought the money. Q. He would return you the money with his receipt A. He would return make returns for the full amount Q. T^ess the reduction A. Return the receipt for the reduction Q. And the money for the balance? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you got the full amount of the bill then, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. So now would it be possible for me or anybody else to have stolen anything in that transaction? A. I don't see how it could be done. I merely know that we sent the bill out in full Q. When he took it in there A. Yes. sir. Q. And this receipt and the money or voucher was for the full amount of the bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Now if somebody in the Governor's office owed a $4.50 bill for private telephone and there was a $30 bill for long distance telephone messages and the collector went there and accepted $30 in payment of both and carried the money back to you, you would get the same amount of money thai you would if the deduction was made, wouldn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, now, if the collector will swear that he did do it that way can you say that he did not do so? A. I don't know; he was given the bills and went out and collected them and made the returns. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Do you think Governor Davis got this fifteen per cent of these bills this reduction in money? -254 A. No ; discount. Q. Was it your understanding that this fifteen per cent deduc- tion went to the benefit of the State? A. That was my understanding. H. W. DOUGHERTY, on oath being by me first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Where do you reside? A. Hot Springs, Ark. Q. Were you ever collector for the Southwestern Telegraph & Telephone Company here in Little Rock? A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you know anything about the arrangement in Governor Davis' office by which he received a reduction of ten per cent on long distance messages? A. He received fifteen per cent. Q. Well, did you do the collecting for the telephone company for its 'pnones? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you collect from his office? A. Governor Davis? Q. Yes. sir. A. Yes, sir. Q. I wish you would tell the committee what the course was with reference to the collecting for the private 'phones in use in the office and residences and the long distance messages? A. All the bills would be presented to the secretary and they would be left there and I would come back and get a voucher for the amount and credit that up and take the voucher to the Auditor and get a warrant. Q. Then you went there with the long distance messages the long distance bill, and you also had a bill against Mr. Jaoobson or anybody else for a private 'phone, how would they settle it? A. It was presented with the others and was paid. Q. All paid with the voucher? A. Yes, sir. Q. On whom? A. On the Auditor. Q. The Auditor of State? A. Yes, sir. 285 Q. How long were you the collector for the Telephone Com- pany? A. In Little Rock about eight months. Q. In what year? A. I am not quite sure. I think I started about November 1901, and from that time up to July this last year. Q. How many 'phone bills for private residences or the resi- dence of Mr. Jacobson were merged into these long distance 'phone bills that were paid during that time by a voucher on the Auditor? A. I can't say without the books. I think they were paid every month. I can't be positive. Q. At the end of every month? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was the Governor's private 'phone bill paid or not in that same way? A. I can't say exactly, but it was paid sometimes that way. Q. Did they ever pay for 'phones for any of them used in their private residences or for 'phones used in their private office during the time you were collector there otherwise than by a voucher on the Auditor? A. There was one check for $8 on Governor Davis' residence; the rest was all paid by voucher. Q. Now when you went there with a bill, say for $30 for long distance messages and had for collection in addition to that for the company a bill for private 'phones for $4.50, how would it b paid; would you deduct the fifteen per cent from the long distance messages long distance bill, or would you just lose sight of the other bill and put the whole thing in there and take an Auditor's warrant for the $30? A. 'When I went there I would leave the bills with the secre- tary and come back in several days to get them from him; they would already be attached together with a warrant attached; the long distance, general local with warrant attached. Q. Then the rebate of fifteen per cent would just be lost sight of? A. The warrant would pay me for the full amount of the long distance and the residence 'phones and I would take a receipt for the discount, and would credit up the full amount of the bills. Q. You say that that was the course that they had of paying their other telephone bills, by merging them along in with their long distance bills? 286 A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you looked over any of the vouchers to refresh your memory recently? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you recall what vouchers they were? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Would you know them if you saw them? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) What is your name . A. H. W. Dougherty. Q. Where do you live? A. Hot Springs. Q. Have you talked with the prosecutor or prosecutors in this case since you came to town? A. Yes, sir. Q. Gone over the subject with them? A. They asked me and I told them what I knew about it. Q. Where did they ask you about it? A. In Colonel Murphy's office. Q. Then you were catechised about this matter before you were put on this stand? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now let us get right down to the bed-rock and understand where we are. There is a reduction of fifteen per cent given on all long distance bills since a certain time? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is the same per cent that is given to the merchants who buy coupons? A. Different per cents are allowed merchants. There is a dif- ferent rate given. Q. Well then, if Mr. Deshon says it is the same don't he know more about it than you do? A. I don't know what it is. I don't know what per cent is given them. There is a per cent of ten, fifteen, twenty and twenty- five per cent given merchants on long distance telephone messages. There is a rebate given to merchants; on a twenty-dollar book it is ten per cent, on a fifty-dollar book it is fifteen per cent, on a one hundred-dollar book twenty per cent and on a one hundred and fifty- dollar book twenty-five per cent. 287- Q. It is according to the size of the book then? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now when you bring a bill to the office say for $30 there would be a fifteen per cent reduction given to the office, now how much would you get for your money what would be the amount of your voucher? A. Owing to the different bills I left. Q. Just assuming that you brought a set of bills for $30 for long distance messages; well, then, you would get $25.50 in a voucher, wouldn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And give the reduction of fifteen per cent, which would be $4.50, wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you would take a rebate voucher for that $4.50? A. What do you mean by that? Q. A rebate voucher the same thing as a receipt; it is a voucher that your company gets out they furnish the blank? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, now, when you go ba'ck to the office you have got to account for $30, the amount of the bill you carried out? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you do account for it by this voucher for $25.50 and this receipt for $4.50? A. Yes, sir, that would be the case where I just took a long dis- tance bill. Q. That would be where you had a long distance bill A. Yes, sir, that would be the way if I just had a long distance bill, but I never done that Q. We are just using that to get at the facts now wouldn't that have been the case? A. Yes, sir, if I had. Q. Well, then, how would it be possible for anybody to get any- thing out of that transaction? A. I didn't say that anybody got anything out of that trans- action. Q. Would it have been possible for me to have gotten a cent of that $20 A. No, sir; not on that Q. That rebate was not cash, was it; it was just a receipt? A. Yes, sir. 288 Q. Now Colonel Murphy asked you ix the private messages that is something that is not strictly official were put in these long distance Mils and would be paid just like anything else; now do you know of your own knowledge whether there was one private telephone communication in those long distance bills or not? A. Yes, sir. Q. How do you know? A. I only know from the way it was written in the collection books. Q. From whom? A. Well, I would go in there and get an order from your pri- vate secretary and take it town to the Auditor and get a warrant and cash it. Q. What do you mean by an order? A. I don't know what you call it, an order or a voucher, or whatever it is called, and take it to the Auditor. I suppose it was an order or a voucher. Q. For what? A. For the amount of the bills. Q. I am not talking about that do you know about any pri- vate item that is on any bill that you could say was a private message and not an official message? A. I can't say positively, but I don't think that his private residence would be official ; but that I can't say positively. Q. Whose private residence? A. Charles Jacobson's. Q. You say that you have collected for his private residence in that way? A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. When was that done? A. I can't say without the books; several months, though I think. I think about eight times. Q. Did you ever collect for the telephone at my residence in that way? A. Yes, sir. Q. You collected for it in that way? A. I did. Q. Will you please show the voucher showing that? A. Why the Auditor has the vouchers. 289 Q. Now do you say that you could take those vouchers and show us that? A. I could take the books and show what is credited up on the books from the vouchers. Q. You say I did not attach the bills to the vouchers? A. No. The residence 'phones wasn't. Q. Now you are stating that for the truth and expect that to be believed, do you? A. I am swearing to it. Q. You swear to it? A. I do. Q. Now, Mr. Dougherty, I want to ask you is it not a fact that Mr. Jacobson paid you for my private for my residence telephone and for his residence telephone in actual cash? A. No. sir. Q. That is not true? A. I do I can't remember without seeing the books. Have you got the books here? Q. What books? A. The company's books; the voucher would show the total amount paid, but the books would show; the amounts to make up the voucher would be credited up on the books. Q. You can say so if you had the books? A. Yes, sir. The committee could get them. Q. Well, suppose you tell the committee how it could get them. A. I suppose the committee could get them. Q. Now, Mr. Dougherty, you just limber up and tell them how to prove it. A. You ask me what I can prove and I told you what, or per- haps I misunderstood your question. Q. I understood that you were swearing to the truth about what you knew ? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that you expected that statement to be believed? A. I understand it. It is the truth; yes, sir. What statement do you refer to? Q. You stated that Mr. Jacobson paid for my residence tele phone and for his residence telephone by a warrant upon the Treas- urer of the State? Testimony 10. 290 A. I do except this $8 that I spoke of, Governor; he gave me your check once for $8. Q. And the rest was paid by voucher? A. I suppose you call it a voucher. Q. Well, you went to the Auditor's office and got the money? A. Yes, sir. I got a warrant from him. Q. So that had no reference to this fifteen per cent; that had nothing to do with the fifteen per cent, it was just paid straight and no fifteen per cent was taken into consideration in that item? A. In which item? Q. The private residence 'phone A. I think it did. Q. How was that if he paid you the money out of the Treasury on an Auditor's warrant how would the fifteen per cent rebate come in? A. If there had been any fifteen per cent there wouldn't have been enough to cover the warrant and the Auditor would not have allowed it there wouldn't have been enough bills to cover the warrant the amount it was made out for. That is if the fifteen per cent had been deducted Q. When were you discharged from the Long Distance Tele- phone Company's services? A. February 11. I believe. Q. What was it for? A. The letter did not state. Q. It did not state? A. No, sir. Q. Don't you know that you were discharged for stealing? A. No, sir. Q. And dishonesty? A. No, sir. Q. And lying and general disreputable conduct? A. No, sir. Q. Don't you know that the company discharged you for that? A. No, sir; the letter does not state it don't say what the facts are. Q. Well, no matter what the letter states what were the facts? A. The facts. I don't know what it was for. 291 Q. Now wasn't it because you were dishonest and lied? A. Nothing no. sir Q. To this company? A. I never did; no, sir. Q. Youi were not discharged for that A. No, sir. Q. What does the letter state read the letter- -your discharge. (Witness produces letter when Governor Davis says: "Just let me read the letter, if you have no objections." Witness hands the letter to him, and after reading same but not aloud hands it back to the witness.) Q. The letter don't state? A. No. sir. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Read the letter out, Mr. Dougherty. A. r 'To whom it may concern: The bearer, W. H.. Dougherty, has been in the employ of this company during the past twelve years. I consider him a competent telephone man, and his handling of the moneys of the company entrusted to his keeping has been entirely satisfactory. (Signed) J. F. Farnsworth, General Manager South- western Telegraph & Telephone Company, Dallas, Texas. I most cheerfully endorse the above. T. L. Powell, Local Manager." Q. What is the date of that letter? A. March 2. 1903. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) What one of the company's books would, by comparison with the vouchers in the Auditor's office, enable you to say that these long distance telephone and the private telephone items of the Governor were merged in the same bill? A. The collector's daily, where they were written down in there and then copied onto the day book either one would show. Q. Where are they kept, please, Mr. Dougherty? A. In the manager's office Mr. Deshon's. Q. Now here is voucher No. 6599? A. Yes, sir, I collected that. Q. State the total amount due? A. Total amount of the voucher is $30.70. Q. How was it paid what is the long distance and what is the local 'phone bill on it? A. The long distance shows $22.70: nothing else Q. What is the local bill on the face of it there in pencil? A. Shows local $8. 292 Q. What does that "local $8" mean if you know you can state? A. I can't say; those are not my figures. Q. Whose are they; do you know? A. No. sir. Q. What is the total amount of the warrant? A. $30.70. Q. And the long distance is how much? A. $22.70. Q. Then if that "local $8" means that it is for local 'phones, that means that $8 had been added to that $22.70 which is fhe long distance telephone bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether that $8 was for the residence or not? A. I can't say from that. Q. Could you testify positively that it was not for the local tel- ephones of the office? A. No, sir, I cannot. T. L. POWELL, on oath, being by the chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Governor Davis) Do you know this young man, Dougherty, who has just testified? A. I do. Q. Was he discharged from your company? A. He was. Q. What for? A. Well, I prefer not to say what he was discharged for Q. I want to know. A. I rather not answer that question, Governor; but I will say it was not for dishonesty; but 1 would rather not give the reason for his discharge. Q. Well, I just want to ask you if it was because of his attempted or improper relations with some of the young ladies in your office? A. I would rather Q. If that is not true? A. I had a report that there was improper conduct going on In our ofnce. Q. From this young man? A. Yes. sir. 293 Q. From that he was discharged? A. Yes. sir, he was. Q. (By Mr. McCain) You heard that letter that has been read here ? A. Yes. sir. Q. And you signed it? A. Yes, sir. And so far as being honest he was an honest and capable man. Yes, I signed that letter of recommendation. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You discharged him because you simply heard that there was some improper relations going on in your office with some of the young ladies A. Yes, sir. J. H. PAGE, on oath being first duly sworn, deposes and testi- fies as follows: Examination of Mr. Page in regard to the charges made in charge No. 17. Q. (By Mr. Murphy) You are the secretary of the Board of Charities? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did you go on a trip to New York in last April? A. No, sir, I did not. Q. You did not? A. No. sir. Q. Did you start on a trip that was to embrace New York, or Buffalo, Tacoma, Seattle, San Francisco, Mexico City and return? A. No, sir, I did not . Q. You were not on that trip at all? A. No, sir, I never made that trip. Q. Were you invited to make it? A. No. sir. Q. Did you go on a trip anywhere in April in company with Governor Davis, Judge Mahoney and Charles Jacobson? A. No, sir. I did not. Q. Well, then, at any time within the last two years, if it was not in last April? A. No, sir, not at all. Q. You have taken no trips of that sort at all? A. No, sir, I have not. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Do you know who went on that trip, Mr. Page? 294 A. What particular trip? Q. The trip that Governor Davis, Judge Mahoney and Charles Jacobson were on. I say have you been on any trip within the last two years with them? A. No, sir. I have not. Q. With the four of them? No, sir. Q. You have not? A. No, sir. CHARLES JACOBSON, on oath being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows : Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Jacobson, did you not in last April go on a trip to New York with Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir, we went some time last spring. I don't remember exactly what day it was. g. Who was with you? A. Judge Mahoney and Wallace Davis and the Governor and myself. Q. Who is Wallace Davis? A. That is the Governor's little boy. Q. You four including his son? A. Yes, that is all that was there. Q. Well, from where did you start on that trip; what place? A. I started from St. Louis with them myself. I met the party at St. Louis. Q. You were in St. Louis and met the special car there then? A. I was in St. Louis and met Governor Davis and Judge Mahoney at the Lindell Hotel. Q. You had had information of that contemplated trip for some time, hadn't you? A. Yes, sir, for some days. Q. Was it to extend from St. Louis, by the way of Washington to New York City, Buffalo, Tacoma, Seattle, San Francisco and the City of Mexico and return? A. No, sir. Q. It never was planned any further than New York City? A. Yes, sir. Q. To where? A. We planned to go west. Q. To what points? 295 A. To somewhere in Washington. Q. Well, now do you konw anything about the arranferyr-cnts by which the transportation was furnished for going from Poplar Bluff? A. No, sir, I met the party in St. Louis. Q. Well, you may have done that and you yet may know some- thing about the arrangements? A. I know nothing about how they got to St. Louis except from what they told me and from general information that is that they took the Cannon Ball and went there. Q. How did you go out of St. Louis, in a special car? A. No, sir, not in a special car; I bought the transportation myself and paid for it over the Baltimore & Ohio. Q. Then if Sam West said that he furnished it and paid $802 for it fie tells what is not true, does he? A. Absolutely. Q. From what points to what points did you buy transporta- tion? A. From St. Louis, Missouri, to New York City. A. How did you buy it in the form of tickets, or how? A. Yes, sir. in the form of tickets. Q. How many tickets did you buy? A. One for Judge Mahoney, one for Governor Davis and one for myself. Q. How much did you pay for them? A. I don't remember exactly what it was now. Q. Give us about what it was. A. I could sit down and figure it out, but I never had thought about it. Q. Through what important points did you go? A. We stopped in Washington for three days. When we got there I took the tickets that I had and deposited them with the agent of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and when we got ready to leave Washington 1 went there and got new tickets for them at Washington, from Washington to New York. Q. Did you stop anywhere else except Washington and New York? A. No, sir. Q. Then it is not a fact that you went in a special car? 296 A. No, sir; we went in the ordinary coach. The morning tnai we left St. Louis we did not know which way we were going; that is to say, on what road we were going which way, and I asked the Governor if he had any preference and he said no, he would just leave it to me; for me to go and get the tickets over the most convenient road. Q. Then it is not a fact, or it is not true that one of the party got lost and the Governor insisted on running the train back for him, after it had passed him? A. No, sir; nothing like that ever happened, or nobody was ever left that 1 have any recollection of it. But 1 will say this much, that after we left St. Louis we didn't have any sleepers, there was- nothing for us but upper berths, and I remember the conductor did us a favor and wired to Cincinnati to reserve three lower berths for us, and when we got there I had an argument with the conductor. We all wanted berths in the same car together, but we finally had to take berths in different cars; we couldn't get them together. Q. You haven't gone there then on any trip where a specials car was furnished? A. General, I never was in a special car in my life. Q. This was no special car answer my question? A. I said that I never had been in a special car in my life; I have never stepped so much as my foot in one. Q. Who else were in the sleepers with you? A. Just travelers generally. We had to take separate berths. I remember the next morning Governor Davis came and woke me up and told me he wanted me to> look at the mountains ; I told him to go on away and let me alone, 1 wanted to sleep, but he kept on jollying me until I finally got up. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Where did you buy your tickets from,, St. Louis? A. Yes, sir, to New York City. Q. Did you travel first-class A. Yes, sir, traveled first-class all the way. Q. Where did you go what were the most important points that you passed through besides Washington in going to New York? A. In I took little Wallace down to the street and got him a glass of soda water Q. That was not charged to the contingent fund, was it? A. Might have been Q. Vhere else did you stop? A. Went right straight through to Washington and stayed there three days; we were traveling on the train most of the time. Q. You say you were traveling on the train most of the time A. Yes. sir. Q. What road did you take when you went from Washington A. Went over the Vandalia Railroad. Q. How long did you stay in New York? A. Two or three days. Q. Well, you went there in a first-class train? A. Most assuredly. Q. Where did you go next; back to St. Louis? Right straight? A. No, we stopped one day at the Niagara Falls. We stopped in Buffalo, and I wanted to see the Falls; we went from New York to Buffalo on the New York Central and I expressed a desire to see the Falls while I was there, and the Governor said he would arrange it I understood that our tickets were not stop-over tickets, and I saw the conductor about it and we had a long talk; so when we got to Buffalo, I think it was, I went to the General Offices of the the New York Central and we got stop-over privileges. Q. Did you go to Buffalo? A. We were not in Buffalo very long; we took a street car and went no, we were not in Buffalo but fifteen or twenty minutes. We took a street car and went out to Niagara Falls Q. How long did you stay in Buffalo? A. I stayed only fifteen or twenty minutes. When we got back that afternoon or night we went over the Lake Shore and Michigan Central from there; went over that road to Cleveland, over the Big Four track. And when we got to St. Louis we then came on home. While we were in the New York Central & Hudson River station in New York I bought three and one-half tickets; the Governor gave me the actual cash to get them with handed me a hundred dollar bill Q. t)id you get a receipt for the tickets? A. Tickets, straight tickets. I remember one thing; while I was standing there I laid the hundred dollar bill down on the counter and a Chinaman was standing right on my left, and he asked me where I was going and I told him to San Francisco, and he asked me to let him go along; I remember that. I think the hundred dollar bill attracted his attention. Q. Do you remember going with the Governor on any other trip to Buffalo? A. No, sir. Q. Did he ever go himself on any other trip? A. Yes sir from St. Louis to Buffalo in a private car as I understood it. Q. When? A. Why I don't remember the date, Mr. McCain; I know that it was tne day when the Governors met there for the benefit of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition, whatever day that was. He went on the invitation of Governor Francis. Q. When? A. I don't remember. I tell you it was the day of the Louisi- ana Purchase Exposition, their day, whatever day that was at the Buffalo Centennial. Q. Governor Davis didn't take you along that time? A. No, sir. Q. Did anybody go with him from Arkansas? A. No, I would like to have gone. Q. Was that last summer or last spring? A. I don't remember, Farrar. You can find out. It was the Louisiana Purchase Exposition day at the Pan American Centen- nial. I know that Governor Francis wired Governor Davis asking him to go to Buffalo with him and represent Arkansas there, and he wired back and said yes. Q. These are the only two trips that you know of the Governor taking east? A. No, he went to New York before that once. I went to New York with him once before that. Q. When? A. Oh, he went with Governor Clark; went there to take some depositions. Q. While he was Governor ? A. No, sir; while Attorney General. Q. Well, those are the only three? A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you know about what your expenses were on this trip? A. No, but I think it cost the Governor nearly $500 and cost Judge Mahoney something over that amount and it cost me about $200. I know this from the reason that when we were in Washing- ton and were all in our rooms I was in bed Governor Davis and 299 Judge Mahoney got to discussing what their expenses had been and they made me get out of bed and sit down at a table and take a lead pencil and paper and figure up the entire expense of the trip transportation and everything else what we had spent, the total for all bills, and said they would pro-rate it among the three. I know that the transportation was paid for for I bought it myself. Q. It cost you then about $1,300 for that trip? A. Mighty near that; yes, sir. Q. You never heard about Mr. Bourland being invited to go on a trip with the Governor, did you? A. I heard that Mr. Bourland was asked to go and he said he did not have any money to spare, and that he couldn't leave his practice something of that kind. Q. Then you heard of it? A. Yes, sir, I heard of it. Q. What broke up the trip going west? A. The Baptist Church here at Little Rock broke it up. Q. How was that? A. Well, Mr. Ginnochio wired the Governor that the Baptist Church had preferred charges against him and the Governor con- cluded he had better come home and see about it; he didn't know what they might do here. Q. Then if it had not been for that you would have started on your western trip? A. Well, we were talking about that matter when this thing come. Q. So you had to declare your western trip off? A. Yes. sir. Q. And this trip had already cost you three about $1,200 or $1.300? A. Somewhere in that neighborhood; I don't recollect just the cents. Q. (By Governor Davis) This statement about having a pri- vate car to ride upon and champagne and fine wines and liquors is absolutely without foundation nothing of that kind occurred? A. No, sir, there wasn't anything on our car except a couple of bottles of Wizard Oil and a bottle of soothing syrup; that was all the bottles it had on it that I know of. I remember they gave me or made me take a dose of the soothing syrup Q. No, Charlie, that wasn't soothing syrup; it was Syrup of Figs. 300 A. Yes, that is what it was. Q. This statement that has been flaunted all over the country that I went in a private car loaded down with champagne and fine liquors, and that some of the crowd got so drunk they fell off the train, and that it . was a disgrace brought disgrace on the State A. There was nothing of the kind Q. There was no private car and nothing in the car except what any other person would carry A. No, sir. Q. And there is nothing to it? A. No, sir. Q. And we were just ordinary passengers? A Yes. sir. Q. And rode with the other passengers? A. Yes. sir. Q. And paid our fare just like other white folks, didn't we? A. Yes. sir. Q. (By Parrar L. McCain, Esq.) What is your salary? A. $135 a month. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Do you know what was in the special car that he went to Buffalo on or not? A. I don't know anything about it, Colonel. I suppose they had everything, though, that they wanted; they were foolish if they didn't. Q. (By Governor Davis) That was a trip of Governor Francis and some other people from St. Louis, and he simply invited me to come and go along to Buffalo with him as a representative of the State of Arkansas? A. Yes, sir. To help for the Louisiana Purchase Exposition. I know you wired him at first that you could not go, but you after- wards went. Q. They a-ked me if Sam West I will ask you if Sam West said that he gave me $817 if he told that which was not true; now have you any understanding that he ever did such a thing? A. No, sir. JUDGE J. G. WALLACE, on oath., being first duly sworn, de- poses and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Judge Wallace, where do you reside? A. I reside at Russellville in this State. 301 - Do you know Governor Davis? Yes, sir; very well. Do you know R. B. Hogins? I do; yes sir. Were you ever at a meeting between Governor Davis and R. B. Hogins in the Governor's office where you were trying to adjust a difference between them in consequence of his insistence upon Mr. Hogins appointing Mr. Sam Thatch, his brother-in-law, to a position on the penitentiary service? A. I was; yes sir. Q. Can you state to the committee what, if anything, Governor Davis said to Mr. Hogins in his office to induce him to appoint his brother-in-law to such a position in the penitentiary service? A. Well, I don't know whether I can reproduce the language I can't reproduce the language in its parts, but I can produce the substance of it. I would not be certain about that, even. It hap- pened, I think it may have been before, or probably directly after I remember it was in the afternoon some time last spring; I can't fix exactly what month now, but it was in March, perhaps. Well, in the first place I will state that Goveronr Davis had asked Mr. Hogins to appoint Mr. Thatch, who was his brother-in-law, as elec- trician at the penitentiary. Mr. Hogins made the point that Mr. Thatch was not competent, and I was spoken to by e,ch one of them, perhaps on two or three different occasions, and on one occasion, myself, Judge Davis, who is the father of Governor Davis, and also a friend of Mr. Hogins, as well as myself, we undertook to well that is. I don't know that we undertook it particularly, but undertook it at their suggestion, perhaps, to see if we couldn't bring about a settlement of the matter. At that time Mr. Hogins and Governor Davis were on good terms, as I understood it. So Mr. Hogins came up in the office 1 think I went to see Mr. Hogins, maybe, and had a talk with him there at the time or a short time before about the matter and Judge Davis was in the office. I was also in the office and Mr. Hogins came in pretty soon after, and the subject was broached, but just by whom I don't remember now; perhaps we were talking about it when Mr. Hogins came in. Well, Judge Davis, I think it was, remarked that he did not believe that Sam that is Mr. Thatch, the brother-in-law of Governor Davis was competent to fill the place. Well, then Governor Davis said that he would withdraw him for the postiton substantially said that, and askecl Mr. Hogins then to give him Joe Moore's place. 302 and Mr. Hogins remarked, "I am going to give that to Kufe," or "I have reserved that for Rufe," or something to that effect the son of Mr. Hogins; and I think Mr. Davis remarked that the board could create another office for Rufe and that Sam could attend to the duties of the office of Mr. Moore, and then I think Mr. Hogins agreed to give Sam Mr. Moore's place, provided the board would consent to it, so they parted with that understanding. After that, in the ab- sence of Mr. Davis, I talked with Mr. Hogins and I asked him about it I don't just know how the matter was brought about or spoke of between us, and he told me that he had been to see vou (Colonel Murphy) and Mr. Crockett, and that while you had said to him that you were willing to approve any appointment that he would make, yet you did not believe that Moore ought to be removed, and so he had declined to remove Mr. Moore under the circumstances. That is about all I know about it. I don't think I ever had any further conversation, or was present when any was had about it. Q. Did or did not Governor Davis state to Mr. Hogins what position he expected and the amount of the monthly salary he would have the board create for his son if Hogins would appoint Sam Thatch to the place that he wanted him to have? A. Well, he may have done so, but I don't think I don't remember it. I don't say that he did not state it, but I canl remem- ber about that. Q. But do you say you remember that he said the board would, or he would have the board create a place for Hogins' son if he did it? A. I don't know; he said he would have the board do it or the board would do it, or the board could do it, or it would do it. Q. (By Governor Davis) Judge Wallace, did you not hear Mr. Hogins say at the talk that we had at my office, that he meant to discharge Joe Moore anyhow? A. Well, I can't recollect that he made that statement. Q. Or that he had made up his mind to discharge Joe Moore? A. Yes, sir; I think he wanted to reserve, or was reserving, that place; I remember that distinctly. Q. And didn't I tell him this, that Mr. Crockett had a brother- in-law out there that was an assistant bookkeeper, a place for which there is no provision made for at all in the statute, with the knowl- edge and consent of the board, and that another place like it might be raised for Rufe? A. Yes, sir; I think that was said. 303 Q. I told him that Mr. Crockett had a brother-in-law, a Mr. Gibson, an assistant bookkeeper in a place out there that was not provided for in the statute, and that the board might make another place of that kind? A. Yes, sir; something was said about something of that kind, but I don't remember whether it was about Mr. Gibson or somebody else. Q. You know this or understand it so, that Mr. Gibson is Mr, Crockett's brother-in-law? A. That is my understanding. Q. And that there is no such place as an assistant bookkeeper provided for in the statute? A. I have never had occasion to examine it closely. Q. I will ask you if Mr. Hogins did not have his son-in-law down here in a job who has the reputation of being a sot drunkard I am speaking of Mr. White? A. Yes, sir, Andrew White. I don't know that I ever saw him. I understood, however, that he did have a son-in-law here as cotton weigher. Q. Didn't Mr. ask you whether or not if Andrew White was a drunkard; he sent him off down here about England as a cotton weigher? A. Yes, sir; he spoke something about it. Q. And didn't they have to discharge White on account of drunkenness ? A. Well, I tell you, I can't say whether White was a drunkard or not. I think he sometimes drank whiskey, but whether he was. an inebriate or not I don't know. Q. Well, they never have said anything as long as it was Crockett's brother-in-law, or Hogins' son-in-law, that was was being, appointed to some place, but that was when I wanted my brother- in-law appointed A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You stated, I believe, that the Gov- ernor and Mr. Hogins was on friendly terms at that time? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did they become unfriendly soon after that? A. Well, that is my understanding. I can't just state anything but afterwards they became unfriendly. Q. Well, do you know of anything that could have caused it? A. Well, yes; I think I do. I think it was about this appoint- ment in some way. I can't state that though as a fact. 304 Q. rBy Governor Davis) I will ask you if I spoke to him about this Dickinson contract A. Yes. sir. Q. And didn't I tell Mr. Hoggins then that I would not allow my brother-in-law to hold a place under it, and that he had not kept a single promise 'that he had made to me when I appointed him as superintendent out there' at the penitentiary? A. You stated something, but I couldn't say just what Q. Don't you remember that? A. Yes, sir; I think you stated that in substance; yes, sir. Q. And didn't I state to Mr. Hogins right there in that con- versation, and Mr. Hogins said that I had gotten him the place as superintendent of the penitentiary? A. Well, yes, I am inclined to think he did; I would not be pos- itive. Q. And then I told him told Mr. Hogins right in your pres- ence that I had agreed to do so if he would consent to certain conditions? A. Yes. sir. Q. That he had promised to do when he had gone in there as superintendent? A. Yes. sir. Q. And didn't I tell him that he had agreed to not drink any more liquor? A. Yes. sir. Q. That he had agreed to break up the boarding house out there at the penitentiary? A. Yes, sir. Q. And didn't I tell him if he found anybody acting crooked that I wanted him to help me to catch him? A. Yes, sir. Q. That he had agreed to help me overthrow the Dickinson contract? A. Yes, sir. Q. And didn't I tell him that he had not done it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And didn't I tell him at the time that he had not kept a single one of those promises? A. I think he at that time made some excuses for not keeping Q. Didn't he acknowledge that he had not kept a one of them? A. Yes, sir; he said the courts had upheld the Dickinson contract and he 305 Q. And didn't he now substantially tell ne that he had not kept a one of those promises? A. Well, I can't say whether he did or not, except the Dick- inson contract; he told you that he had not kept that for the reason he was afraid he would be enjoined. Q. Well, didn't he creep out of them try to get out of them? A. I understood and in fact there was a coolness between you previous to that time. Q. Didn't I tell him then and there in the persence of you and my father you were both there and heard that statement, did I not teH him that I would not allow my brother-in-law to hold a place under him as long as that Dickinson contract was there when he said that he had made up his mind to discharge Joe Moore, but that he wanted to save that place for his son Rufe? A. Well, I understood, while I can't reproduce anything, the substance of what occurred, I know when Mr. Hogins said he was going to give you wanted him to give the place to Sam and when he raised the point that Sam was not competent then you wanted him to give Sain Joe Moore's place, and he said he wa. giong to give that to Rufe. Q. IBy Colonel Murphy) Was that conversation you speak of there in March or in April? A. I wouldn't be positive, but I think some time about the first part of March. Q. Did Mr. Hogins ever show you a letter that the Governor wrote him from New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was that before this or after, that he showed you this letter? A. This was before he showed me the letter. The following was introduced by consent of the parties, both the board and Governor Davis", as supplementary to the foregoing testimony of Judge J. G. Wallace: "When Governor Davis remarked to Mr. Hogins that the board could create another place for Rufe, Mr. Hogins replied, 'I do not believe in that,' to which Governor Davis replied, 'If the board cre- ates the place, what is that to you?' " R. B. HOGINS, being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Hogins, you are the Superin- endent of the Penitentiary? A. Yes, sir. 306 Q. Do you know Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now just state to the committee in your own way how the trouble between you and him originated the cause of it? A. The first bitterness between us after he appointed me in December, 1901, was a few days after I took charge. He tele- phoned for me to come over to the office, and I went over, and he said he wanted John Young and S. Henry to go in as wardens in place of Nichols at the stockade and Barton at England. I told him they were both good men and I would do so. John Young took charge and so did Mr. Henry, and 1 about three weeks after- wards Mr. Young took sick and died, and then he wanted me to put in a man by the name of Patterson over at Augusta, and I told him that he was a good man, I knew him, and I had no objec- tions to Mr. Patterson, and so I advised him he was the sheriff of Woodruff County, or is now; and I notified him, and he \vjmted to know what it paid, and I told him, and he said he could not leave his business for $75 a month, and I told the Governor, and he said the board would raise the salary to $100, and 1 said I objected because we could get good men for $75, and Mr. Patterson said he could not leave his business for that amount. And I think Captain Monroe finally suggested a man, a Mr. Daniels, and I appointed him and he took charge, and is still there: There was some place to be fillett, the electrician's place, and the Gov- ernor said Sam must have that place. He said I have had him sell out and move down here, and I told him I couldn't do any- thing about it, for I had already appointed a man to the place, and he said Sam must have it, and I told him that Sam didn't know anything about electricity that he didn't know any more about it than I did, which is a fact, and that brought on some little strained relations between us. And Judge Davis who heard this language he was down here and heard this conversation between Judge Wallace, Judge Davis, the Governor and myself, we were all up there, and the Governor's father told him that Sam was not a suitable man for that place; that he didn't know anything about electricity, but he could give him something else, and I told him if there was something there that he could do, 1 would be willing to give him the place; and so we talked around there a while, and the Governor said, what about Joe Moore's place, and I told him that I did not think it was the pleasure of the board that he be removed, and that I had intended to give that 807 place to Rufe, but that the majority of the board did not want him removed; and he said if I get two members of that bdard with myself to recommend that you put Sam in Joe's place, would I do it, and I told him I had no objections, and I finally agreed to it; and his father urged me to come to a reconciliation with Jeff, and he went to talking around over the country, and said there that I had promised him when he appointed me that I would approve of any appointment that he would make, and I said yes, but when he wanted me to discharge Joe Moore I had found there was three members of the board that did not want to remove him, and the result was I did not; and he got mad .at me about that; and when he was in New York he wrote me a letter, which has been heard of before; here it is. The witness here produces the following letter and reads same aloud before the committee: "The New Hoffman House, Madison Square. New York, April 27, 1902. "Hon. R. B. Hogins, Little Rock, Ark.: "My Dear Sir I am just in receipt of a telegram from my wife stating that you absolutely refused to give Sam a job under any circumstances. This is no more than I expected, and just what I told you would occur when you left my room after three mem- bers of the board had pledged you that if he was appointed they would confirm it. Of course it is not necessary for me to recount to you the fact that you was making a very small salary at Rus- sellville, and that I alone am responsible for your appointment, which I have regretted very much since ten days after your appointment. I am very sorry indeed that I ever let Sam agree to accept a position under you, and you know very well I only agreed to it after a very heated discussion between you and myself in the presence of Judge Wallace and my father. I shall never ask another courtesy at your hands, neither shall I accept one. "Very truly, "JEFF DAVIS." Q. (By Colonel Murphy, continuing) Before that before this meeting occurred, had you seen Judge Wallace? A. Yes, sir; that is the reason for that meeting. Q. What, if anything, was said about his having the board create a position for your son in that meeting? 308 A. Yeb, sir; he told me when I told him that I expected to give Rufe that place, and I found out that the majority of the board did not want to remove Joe Moore, that he would have the board create a position at $75 a month to put Rufe in, and I told him that there was no extra clerkships provided for, and that I would not put my boy in a job that was created a purpose for him. Q. Now do you remember when it was that the trouble arose about the Dickinson contract? A. Oh, that was a while after after he had asked me to appoint Sam to this place and I had refused, he called me in there one day and said, are you going to put Sam in that place, and I told him, no, sir; I could not do it under the circumstances; the court had done decided this case then, and he said, are you going to lock these men up meaning the men working on the Dick- inson contract and I said, no, I can't do that; he said that con- tract was signed by E. T. McConnell and that don't mean you; and I said, yes, but it wouldn't take them long to add me to it it would not take an hour to go down and change it; and he said he wanted me to lock up those men, and I told him I could not do it in the face of an injunction of the court. Q. Was that injunction in regard to the Dickinson contract the cause of all this coolness between you? A. I think that was after the crops were laid by down on the railroad, but he had not spoken to me for months then; refused to speak to me the first time after -I refused to give Sam that job. He went around and told parties that I had treated him that way, and after I had done that I had the impudence to speak to him and that he had passed me up. Q. Do you know anything about his denouncing you and villi- fying you on the stump and in public speeches after that? A. No, sir; only what I seen in print; I never heard any of it. I will say this: I did appoint my son-in-law, A. J. White, as cotton weigher at a salary of $40 a month, and he drinks too much liquor, and I told him when I appointed him there that if he drank a drop I would fire him, and he went down there and stayed ten days or two weeks, and he got to drinking and I fired him. Q. (By ) Mr. Crockett has a brother-in-law in a posi- tion at the penitentiary, hasn't he? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is there any provision in the statute providing for that position? 309 A. I don't know. Q. Didn't you examine It to see what, if there is, or to see what your duties are out there? A. I don't know Q. You don't know whether there is any provision for an assistant bookkeeper or not? A. No, sir. Q. What salary does Mr. Crockett's brother-in-law get? A. $75 a month. Q. Who does he assist? A. He is the teller, or helps the bookkeeper. Q. (By Farrar L. McCain) Did Governor Davis, as a member of the Penitentiary Board, ever advise you that there was no law for the appointment of those parties? A. No. sir; he never did. Q. Isn't he the only man that fully understands the duties of he is the first man you spoke to about the appointment of Crockett's brother-in-law, isn't he A. I Q. He was one did he raise any question about your appoint- ing him? A. No, sir. In fact he was the first man that suggested it. Q. You just did that appointed him because you thought he was a competent man for the place? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he object to your appointing your son-in-law A. No, sir. I told Andrew that, he would have to quit his drinking; that the first time he drank anything I would fire him; and he got on a drunk, and the first time he <* ij T fired him. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Means Committee ON Tuesday, March 17, 1903 INDEX. R. B. HOGINS. H. W. DOUGHERTY. B. B. JETT. CREED CALDWELL. LOUIS ALTHEIMER. T. L. POWELL. 313 Evidence adduced before the Ways and Means Committee on the 17th day of March. 1903. R. B. HOGINS, being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) 1 forgot to ask you last night what Governor Davis said to you when you refused to appoint Mr. Thatch to the position he wanted him to have? A. Well, he asked me at that same time if I was going to lock up those men that Dickinson had, and I told him I couldn't do it in the face of an injunction; that they might send me to jail, and he made the remark that before any one should work there he would have a negro stand out there with a basket full of pardous and turn them out as fast as they turned them in, and he said I need not fear being put in jail that he would take care of me, and I told him I would hate to stay in jail until he turned me out. That I would rather stay out than be put in. And he said he had appointed me and he would put me out, or something like that, and I told him that it would just take two more men on the committee to do that little job; and he then told me that he could get two other men that had pledged him to do what he said; that he had an agreement with Monroe and that Crockett would vote with him, and I told him that I did not believe that Crockett would do that. Q. Well, in his letter to you he said something, that when you left his office he told you that something would occur, what was that; do you know? A. I think he left out something in that letter; I think that is what he referred to. Q. What was it that would occur? A. That is it; that he would throw me out. Q. (By Governor Davis) Now, to refresh your memory on this point, that is all I care to ask you about. I had been away before to St. Louis, and you had promised to give Sam a job and didn't do it, and I got a telegram from Lucy about it saying that you abso- lutely refused to give Sam a job; don't you remember that; and when I came back you called me up over the telephone and said if I would get two more members of the board to agree that you would appoint him to the place? A. That I would recommend it. Q. You did promise it though; had promised it once before when my father and Judge Wallace was down there in the office. I asked you before them to do it and you agreed to do it? A. No, sir; I did not. 314 Q. You did not? A. No, sir; I never did promise to put Sam in as electrician. Q. I am not talking about that. A. Well, that is what you were talking about there; you wanted me to put Sam in the electrician's place. Q. And then I asked you to give Sam the place that Joe Moore held, and didn't you agree to give Sain a place out there? A. I did give Sam a place at the request of your father Q. Wasn't the last thing I said to you, Colonel Monroe and Mr. Crockett would agree to have you appoint Sam that you would appoint him A. Yes, sir; I Q. And that you refused to appoint Sam to the Joe Moore place because you thought the board did not recommend it? A. The board did not want him removed Q. Now then, didn't Colonel Monroe and Mr. Crockett say that they would confirm whatever you did A. Yes. sir Q. Now, when you went out you say I must have left some- thing out of my letter that I would turn you out of the office that it had occurred just what I had told you would occur. Now didn't I tell you right there and then that you did not intend to give Sam that place, and that I told you so? A. No, sir; you did not Q. And that is what I referred to in that letter? A. You said just what I told you would occur, and you pro- duced that little document that you had old Colonel Monroe to sign; you produced that little document and said you would have me removed; that he and Crockett would vote with you. You produced that thing and said, look what Monroe has signed Q. Didn't you tell Colonel Monroe that the election was over and that he did not have to stand by that? A. Yes, sir. Q. You told me that too? A. Yes, sir; and he told me that your iron heel was not on his neck any longer now that the primaries were over, and that he did not have to stand by his agreement; yes, sir, and that is what I said. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Then it is a fact that Governor Davis exhibited this Monroe contract to you and threatened you with that that he would remove you? ._ 315 A. Yes, sir; for Crockett had been up to that time voting witli him, and he thought he could get Crockett and throw me out. H. W. DOUGHERTY, being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Dougherty, look at those books and show me the books that you used in your collections the entries there in those books? A. (After examining the books) I think there are two others. Q. Examine them and see? A. These are not all of the books. Q. Will you please state to the committee what ones are out? A. Books like this. These books don't cover the full time. Q. Those books don't cover the full time? A. No, sir. Q. How many more of them was there? A. I think there are two others just like these; they cover most of the time from November to March. Q. What do the others cover what time 7 A. May, June and July. Q. Did you turn them in? A. Yes, sir. Mr. Powers steps forward and is questioned as follows: Q. Didn't he return all the books that he had? A. Yes, sir; they were turned in and were copied in these books (touching the large books on the table). The collectors used these small books, and when they came into the office they were simply copied into these books into the record, and these books show the entries from their records. Q. How did they get away? A. I don't know; they were turned in to the chief collector and he entered them and they were thrown into the drawer there; the chief collector had them. He is expected to look out for them. Q. Was all the entries entered on these day books? A. Yes, sir. The day book is kept by the clerk. Mr. Dougherty No, sir, he didn't; we entered them part of the time. Q. (By Mr. Merriman of Mr. Dougherty) What do you mean; that don't cover what? A. It don't cover the full time. Q. From November, 1902, up to what time? A. I think they started probably November, 1901. 316 Q. Would those books show the entries for the full time? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy, questioning Mr. Powell) Where are the other day books. The other day books of your office? A. At my office, prior to that time. Q. The other small books? A. They are supposed to be carried in to the bookkeeper and supposed to be in the chief collector's office. He took care of those books; and Mr. Dougherty was the chief collector then, and I suppose he took care of them himself. Q. Who makes up the day books? A. The clerk in my office. Q. Who was* that? A. A Mrs. Johnson. Q. Where is she? A. She is married and lives in Texas now. Mr. Dougherty was in the habit of taking these books and handling them, and I think that he knows that these entries are exact copies from those books. Mr. Dougherty Yes, but the only thing about this is that they are carried forward in alphabetical order and the other books show it altogether. When they are transcribed from the little books to the large book they are separated and put in alphabetical order. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Dougherty, has Colonel Colquitt furnished you with th*e vouchers from the Auditor's office? A. No, sir. (Colonel Colquitt brings in the vouchers and hands them to Governor Davis.) Q. (By Governor Davis) What month is that? A. (Mr. Dougherty, having examined the voucher handed to him) This is for April. Q. What yeiar? A. 1901; this is not my collection. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) I want those from November 1, 1901. up. (The witness is handed a voucher and proceeds to testify.) Q. (By Governor Davis) What month is that? A. This is for the month of October. Q. Well, that is not your collection, is it? A. Yes, sir. 317- Q. When did you collect that; in November? A. 14th of November. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Well, now take your books and explain it? A. This voucher is made out for $15.25. I find 1 collected on November 14 I find in my collection book November 14, long dis- tance, a credit of $12.25; also rental: Governor Davis, $1; Jacob- son, Charles, $2, which 1 see would make the $15.25. Q. Well, now go to the next voucher A. December 5, is not here, except in this little book, and the figures do not look like they don't look to be the same as mine in the small book. Q. (By Governor Davis) What bill is that? A. December 5. Q. What voucher have you got there? A. This is voucher No. 6599. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) What is the amount of it? A. $30.70. Q. What does the little book show? A. It shows $10 credited on Davis, Governor Davis, $1; Jacob- son, $2; and the $10 seems to be I don't recognize it. Q. You say it is not your figures? A. I say I don't think it is. 1 would like to see the other book where it was copied to. It is not here. Q. Well, explain the difference? A. I don't know of any explanation to it. Q. (By Mr. McCain) What is the total amount of that long distance bill on its face? A. $22.70. Q. And the voucher calls for $30.70? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then that is a difference of $8; where does that $8 come in? A. I can't say positively from these books. Q. Is there nothing to show? A. No, sir Q. Isn't there a pencil mark on it right on the front of it, showing local $8. A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you see that? A. Yes, sir. 318 Q. Do you know wh'o made that? A. No, sir; that is not my figures. Q. Was that bill there when you presented it as far as you remember? A. I don't remember what bills were presented with it. Q. (By Governor Davis) What is the sum total of the bill?" A. $22.70. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Now that pencil mark which shows local $8 makes it just $30.70? A. Yes, sir. Q. And except for that pencil memorandum of $8 local, that par- ticular voucher shows the voucher would be for $22.70? A. Yes, sir; for that voucher. Q. That is the bill sh'ows $22.70, but the voucher is $30.70. It only has attached bills for $22.70, and that notation of $8 local, which is in there, makes it $30.70? A. Yes, sir. I can't say positively whether that is general local Q. Is that a sort of a term do you use that term "general" to distinguish the local telephone from the long distance telephones? A. I can't say that this term "general" is used that way. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) What is there about it then; you say it is not your figures A. It don't look like my handwriting. There is a decimal point in there that is not in between the other figures on that page. Q. Is that in pencil or in ink? A. Pencil. Q. When did you last see that book? A. They were left in the office when I left there in July. Q. Have you seen it from that time until now since you turned it in? A. No, sir; I have not. Q. Well, now pass to the next voucher? Q. (iJy Mr. Whitley) Just refer to that $10 item there in that little book A. I say that the book that that entry should be in, I don't think it is here. Q. That item that you referred to in that little book that $10 item, now see if you can find any discrimination or difference between those ciphers and the other ciphers above it, and those 819 lower down in the line, and see if the ciphers in that ten are not the same as those all along there? A. The double oughts are, but I don't know about the ten. Q. You are satisfied that the double oughts are your hand- writing? A. Yes, sir; I think so. Q. And the other the writing in front of that is your hand- writing that is yours also, is it not? A. Yes, sir; this is mine (Indicating some figures on the book). Q. Well, will you swear positively that that ten there is not your handwriting? A. I did not say that it wasn't. I asked to see the books that it was copied in. I said I did not think it was. The books for December 5, are not here. Q. Then you do not swear that that ten in front of those two noughts is not your handwriting? A. No, sir; not positively. Q. (By Judge Murphy) Well, take the next voucher? A. This is No. 118. Q. (By Governor Davis) What date is on that voucher, please sir? A. Date paid on, this is for December. Q. Well, you have got one for December of $22.70? A. That was November bill collected in December. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Have you found that voucher? A. Yes, sir; I find this voucher No. 118, for $24.40. Q. (By Governor Davis) Do you mean that this is the total amount of the bill or the amount of the voucher? A. The voucher is for $24.40. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) How much is the bill? A. Attached bills are for $22.30. Q. Is that a long distance bill attached? A. A long distance for $18.90, and telephones for $3 and si. and also a bill the Arkansas Stables, 40 cents. I find credited on January 13, $18.90. Now the Arkansas Stables is credited on the long distance also; also telephone $3 and $1 credited on the rental, but I can't make up where the other difference comes in. Q. How much is the difference? A. $2.10. 320 Q. The voucher is drawn for $2.10 more than the attached bills amount to? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who is the voucher sworn to by; who makes it out for Governor Davis; is it the Governor or his private secretary? A. It is signed, Jeff Davis, Governor, by Charles Jacobson, private secretary. Q. And it is for $2.10 more than the attached bills? A. Yes, sir. Q. The credits correspond except as to that $2.10? A. Yes, sir. Q. Take up the next 'one. A. This is voucher No. 424, it is made out for $22.15. Q. (By Governor Davis) What month is that for? A. The bills are for the month of January, paid on February 11. On February 15, I find in the book a credit to Governor Davis, long distance, $18.15, with an extended rebate of $2.75 which has been allowed. Also on February 11, I find a credit, Davis, Gov- ernor Jeff, for $2; Jacobson, Charles, $2, which would make the $22.15. Q. Well, go on to the next? A. This is voucher No. 958. Q. (By Mr. Ilerriman) Give the amounts? A. Long distance for March, paid April 10, $50.65. Q. (By Governor Davis) What is the amount of the bill and rebate the face of the bill? A. The long distance is for $52.90. Q. What is the 'other bills? A. $3.25. local rental. Q. For the office or my residence? A. Governor Davis, that would be the office, two months, $2, which would be the auxiliary 'phone, less rebate, leaves $1.90. The rental is for G'overnor Davis' auxiliary, $2. Two months at $1 a month, less rebate of 10 cents, $1.90. Davis, Governor Jeff, $2, rebate 65 cents, leaves $1.35. Q. What do you mean by that, both my house and my telephone at my office? A. I would judge that was at your residence, it being a $2 rate. On April 10, I find credited, long distance, $45.65, and then out here to the side is $7.24 rebate. I find credited on April 10, 321 Governor Davis, auxiliary, $1.90; Davis, Governor Jeff, $1.35, with- out the 65 cents rebate. Jacobson, Charles, $1.75. Q. (By Mr. Funk) Now that voucher calls for how much? A. $50.65. Q. What is the amount of the bills, for the same amount? A. Bills attached to the voucher? Q. Yes. sir. A. The bills as attached to the voucher calls for $52.90 long distance, and $3.25 rental, without any rebate now the rebate would be deducted. Q. Figure it all up and see what the total am'ount is? A v $56.15. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) What is the amount of the voucher? A. $5'0.65. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) What is the rebate take that from it? A. $7.99. Q. Taking that from it leaves how much? A. From the $48.16? Q. What do you calculate the rebate on? A. On the long distance would be $45.65; and then Governor Davis' auxiliary 'phone, $1.90; Governor's residence, $1.35, would make $48.90; and the voucher calls for $50.65. Q. Did you collect the money for that voucher? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was done with the other $2? A. I find a credit for $1.75, Charles Jacobson, and I think that added to the amount the $48.90, would make the $50.65. Q. Well, does the $1.75 added to it make that amount? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) Now don't you know as a matter of fact on those items, over this line, it has no rebate at all; that there was no rebate given on the line from here to Carlisle over the Memphis line? A. No, sir; I think not. Q. What are you figuring rebate from? A. From the long distance bills, the $48.65, less the rebate, which would be $7.24; that is what the collector's book shows was given as rebate, Governor. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) The total amount of the statement was $56.16, and you collected $50.65, well then what became of the balance of the statement? Testimony 11. 322 A. I don't know what you mean. Q. The other $5 and some cents; what became of that; did you collect that. The difference between the $50.65 and the $56.15? A. There was a rebate allowed on the long distance. Q. Well, you did not collect that long distance rebate? A. No, sir; I certainly would not have collected only $48.65 when the bill calls for $56.15. But as I said there was a rebate given on the long distance bills. That was the total amount of the bills. Q. Did Governor Davis get the difference between the amount you collected and the total amount of the accounts? A. I .didn't figure out the difference between the amount 1 collected and the amount of the accounts to see what it is. Q. The amount 'of the accounts if $56.15, now take $50.65 from that and see what the difference is? A. $5.50. Q. He lacked $5.50 of paying the full account, did he? A. No, sir. Q. He lacked $5.50 of paying the full statement of the account? A. No, sir; he did not. Q. That $56.15 shows the amount of the bills without the rebate being deducted? A. Yes, sir; that is what I mean. Q. Well, now, who got the benefit of that rebate, the State or the Governor did you pay him that $5.50? A. I gave him a rebate of $7.24. Q. Did you pay it in money? A. It was allowed off the long distance messages. Q. Well, then, he did not receive that much back in money, did he? A. I did not give him the actual cash the $7.24 not in actual cash; no, sir. Q. Then he didn't get it; the State got it. A. He was allowed a rebate of $7.24 on his long distance bill. Q. I understand that he was allowed that rebate; now just wait a minute what became of that $5.50 rebate, that is what 1 want to know; how was it settled; bow did you settle that with the company you represent? A. I gave them the collection book shows long distance, $45.65; long distance credited $45.65; the bills were attached to the Toucher for $52.90 323-- Q. The difference of the rebate there now from the state- ment the statement of the full account but what I want to know is what became of that $5.50? A. They received credit for it. Q. Then you did not pay them that much cash did you? A. No, sir. Q. You did not pay them that much in their private 'phoiie rent or any other account or not did you? A. It seems that the bills show that the 'phone rent was cred- ited up with that Q. It seems that the amount of the bills, the statement of the 'phone rent and all aggregate $56.15, and there $5.50 that you don't seems to know what became of, except that you gave the Governor his rebate, but you say you did not turn back to him any money, that is what I don't understand about it? . A. I don't understand how you make it out that way. Q. You stated that you gave the Governor a rebate of $5.50? A. No, sir; I said the rebate was $7.24; I did not state that I gave him a rebate of $5.50. Q. The difference shows $5.50? A. The difference of the face of the bills and the amount of the voucher what the voucher calls for is $5.50; but I did not state that was all the bills. Q. Well, he did not receive for his private benefit the $5.50 that there has been so much talk about, but that was just that much saved to the State, is that so or not? A. I d'on't know; I would think you would be the one to judge that. I don't understand whether you mean to give him his residence 'phone rent or not. Q. You counted the residence 'phone in then did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And after counting all that in there is a difference of $5.50? A. $5.50, according to the bills attached, but I received more than $5.50 rebate. Q. (By Mr. McCain) As a mater of fact the long distance, less the rebate, was $45.65; isn't that what you collected? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the Governor's 'phone, auxiliary was $1.90? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the Governor's 'phone the Jeff Davis 'phone was $1.35? A. Yes, sir. 324 Q. And Charles Jacobson's was $1.75? A. Yes, sir; that is the way it is credited on the books. Q. They got the rebate, and the books of the telephone com- pany show that the telephone company was credited with that amount though he didn't pay any actual money for? A. Yes, sir. Q. The whole thing was paid by the voucher; the 'phone at Governor Davis' house, at his office and the 'phone at Jacobson's house? A. Yes, sir. Q. You took the voucher to the Auditor's office and got a warrant and took the warrant to the office and that credit was made? A. Yes, sir. ' Q. And that is the way it was? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, what is the next voucher? A. This is voucher No. 1336. It was paid on May 13. My collection books show I can't say exactly about this without my other books. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Give us what information you can. A. Voucher is for $29.84. Q. What month is that for? A. Dong distance for April, paid May 13. The long distance calls for $18.70; and there is $2.45 I find on the day book for May 13, a credit of $2.45; long distance, $14.79. The bills call for, long distance, $2.45 and $18.70. Q. (By Governor Davis) What month is that for now? A. Long distance for April, and paid May 13. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) What is the amount of the voucher? A. $29.84. Q. (By Mr. McCain) What is the amount of the bills attached? A. Amount of the bills attached, $33.75 without figuring a rebate on the long distance. Q. Does that include the bills to the Governor's house, and for his office 'phone do they? A. The Governor's residence bill was not attached; the Gov- ernor's office, marked auxiliary to Governor Davis for $12 from February 1 to May 31, 1902. Q. What do you mean, one bill of Governor Davis, $12, one telephone? A. YeSj sir. 325- Q. For back rent? A. Yes, sir; from February 1, to May 31. Four months. Q. What is the other one? A. The other one is for $1 on auxiliary for May. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Is that all the information you can give us concerning that bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say the original books are not here or the day books showing that date are not here? A. Yes, sir. Q. Are all the entries in regard to it here? A. Yes, sir. Q. One of the members of the committee desires to know if you collected it; did you collect It? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Pass to the next one? A. Voucher No. 1628. I will also state that my collection books are not here showing that, but there is a notation of the col- lections up there in the books of the bills. The voucher here is for $16.55; long distance for $13.30, and another for 25 cents. The figures on the books show $13.30, with $2 reduced; I judge that was the 15 per cent rebate. Fifteen per cent would be $1.99, and I judge that would be the $2, which would make it $11.30, then the 25 cents which I judge is for another long distance message, being attached, would make $11.55, and then the $5 added to that makes $16.55. Q. The voucher is for more than the face of the bill? A. Yes, sir; $5 more. Q. But there was no bill attached for the private residences of the Governor and his secretary, to show what that was for? A. No, sir. Q. And your books don't show anything about it? A. My books 'of that date are not here. Q. (By Governor Davis) Now, Mr. Dougherty, you begin by saying that you did not believe that the $10 noted in that little memorandum book was your figures? A. I said it didn't look like mine. Q. Now are they your figures or not? A. I can't say. Q. Then you don't know your own figures? A. I know a good many of them. 326 Q. Will you say that those are not your figures? A. No, sir. Q. You stated that you could turn to the items in these books and figure out and say whether they were your figures A. I said I would compare them with the book and see if these books showed the $10. Q. Those figures were made by somebody else? A. Yes, sir. Q. How were these figures obtained you say they are not your figures? A. I wanted to see the books they were copied out of. Q. Then you do not dispute that the $10 is not correct? A. 1 did not say it was not; I said I wanted to see the orig- inal books Q. You just dispute the fact then that these are not your figures ? A. I would like to see the other book and see if they agree with that $10 item. Q. Well, you were the custodian of the books all the time you were the chief collector? A. Yes, sir. Q. You were the chief collector? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you kept those books; these entries were made by you out of these little memorandum books, are they? A. I say I wanted to see those little books to see if there is any entries in this book that does not agree with the entries in them. I don't say there is, but I don't remember. Q. What is your belief about this; that the entries were all made by you? A. I believe they are, but I Q. Well, now then, this is your system of bookkeeping; that is your way of keeping the accounts of the telephone company your transactions are shown in those books? A. Yes, sir. but Q. They are carried to the office and turned over to the clerk and kept in this day book? A. Yes, sir. Q. They were turned in to you and you were expected to file those little books away for future reference? A. Yes, sir. 327 Q. The company didn't know anything about what entries you were making In there did it, or what entry you made in there in order to make your accounts balance? A. No, sir. Q. They did not know what you did to make your cash balance? A. N'o, sir. Q. You had to make your cash balance? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now when you would come to me with a bill I never did pay you one cent I never did pay one of those bills that you presented personally you never did get a voucher for it from me individually, did you? A. I don't remember of one. Q. You never did collect one cent in there from me individ- ually; my private secretary always attended to that? A. I think it shows that; I wouldn't say positively. Q. Now you were coming there collecting those bills for eight or nine months? A. I expect so, I can find it from these books: T wouldn't say positively. Q. Well, that makes no particular difference you were there either eight or nine months? A. Yes, sir. Q. You would bring a bill to me, well say for $30 long dis- tance bill say there was no local 'phone on it like that, just simply a long distance bill what was the rate of discount that I was entitled to under the rules of that office? A. Fifteen per cent. Q. Then you would get a voucher for $25.50 would you? A. If I would do that; yes, sir Q. After you deducted the 15 per cent? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you were authorized to do that? A. I did not present a bill that way; no, sii, Q. You were authorized to reduce the bill 15 per cent? A. Yes, sir. Q. I am not talking about one of those bills I am just trying to illustrate a point. If you had brought a bill in there for $30 a long distance bill, you would take a discount off of it of $4.50? A. Yes, sir. 328 Q. And the other you would have a voucher for the $25.50? A. Under that condition I would. Q. Well, how would you make your cash balance for the $4.50 deduction that you gave to the office? A. I would receive a rebate voucher for it. Q. A rebate receipt, wouldn't you? A. A reibate voucher. Q. Well it is just a piece of paper a blank memorandum that you furnished? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that rebate voucher was put in as so much cash? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now you would have to take that voucher to the office in order to make your cash balance that rebate voucher. You would have to account for the $30 bill? A. Yes, sir, if I would take out a $30 bill. Q. That is just to illustrate by that $30 bill? A. If I took a $30 bill out and collected $25.50 on it and the rebate was $4.50, I would have a rebate receipt for the $4.50 and a voucher or the cash for $25.50, if it was a long distance bill. Q. The bill on its face shows how much it was for when you carried it out, and the face of it was charged up against you the $30 was charged up against you? A. Yes, sir. Q. There is a little memorandum kept that you got a bill for $30? A. Yes, sir. Q. You got a bill for $30 and collected it? A. No, sir. Q. And you would have to account turn in collections for the $30? A. Shows that I got these bills, that is all. Q. Don't they keep a book showing the bills? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, that bill book shows that the bill you got was for $30? A. Shows that I took out bills Q. That you got bills for $30 and you have to account for that amount, and in order to do so you turn in a voucher for the $25.50 as cash and $4.50 of it in this rebate voucher? A. The books show that I did not always write up the full amount; just the amounts I collected. 329 Q. What do you mean? A. If I would take out a bill for $30 and bring in the collec- tion it would be entered up less the amount thrown off Q. Now, isn't this the way you did that; you got a voucher n the Auditor's office for $25.50? A. Yes, sir. And a rer-~ ' e voucher for $4.50, wouldn'.t you? ^. Yes, sir. Q. 7-nd you would take those back to the office for the amount of the bill the $30 bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then the telephone office wouldn't lose anything by that transaction if you got it that way, would it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you would carry back that $4.50 rebate voucher to- gether with the $25.50 cash? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that would settle that bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you would have to also take back this rebate voucher in order to square your cash account, then how do you explain what went with this rebate voucher if your cash account would balance ? A. I didn't have to carry back each time a rebate voucher; I didn't do so. Q. Now the sum total if it would run for four months, then you would take the rebate back all at once? A. Yes, sir. Q. If the bills ran for three or four months then you would have to take a rebate voucher for it all at once? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then you would carry it back to the office in order to square your cash account? A. Credit it up. Q. Then how do you explain that Mr. Jacobson's residence 'phone and my residence 'phone was paid out of that rebate voucher? A. I didn't say it was paid out of the rebate voucher. Q. What were they paid out of? A. After the rebate was deducted from the long distance bills they were added in. to the face of the voucher that went to the Auditor. 330 Q. In the face of the voucher itself? A. Yes, sir. Q. And paid in the face of the voucher that was sent to the Auditor's office? A. Yes, sir. Q. It wasn't paid then by this rebate voucher that rebate wasn't used for paying for our private telephones? A. Paid in the voucher. Q. The amount of our telephones was included in the rebate voucher A, No, sir; I didn't say it was included in the amount of that rebate voucher. Q. Well, then you say that the private telephones at Mr. Jacobson's house and the private 'phone at my house was paid in the face of the Auditor's warrant and not by the rebate voucher? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are positive about that? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are just as positive about that as you are about any- thing else you have stated here? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are just as positive about that as you are about any other statement that you have made here? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you collect it every time the telephone out there at my house for the entire time that you collected, and did you collect Mr. Jacobson's telephone rent and my telephone rent at my resi- dence in that way the entire nine months that you were collecting? A. It wasn't paid every month. Q. I don't mean every single month monthly, but for the nine months that you were collecting? A. No, sir. Q. What was the telephone rent at my residence? A. f2. . Q. That would be $18 each if you collected it for nine months? A. Yes, sir; two bills for $18 each $36. ' ' Q. Well, did you collect that $36 during the nine months that you collected I don't mean each month, but every two or three months, but for the entire nine months that you were collector and was it paid by voucher on the Auditor's office? A. No, sir. 331 Q. How much did you collect that way? A. I got one check for $8 on the Governor's residence. Q. There was one check for $8 on my residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. So then you collected but one check for my residence? A. That is the only one that I remember of. Q. Yes, sir; well did Mr. Jacobson ever pay you any money for the 'phone at his residence? , A. I don't remember him ever paying me a cent in cash. Q. Well, you say that he did not. Do you? Will you say that he did not pay you any money on his residence telephone that is the thing? A. It has been something over a year ago now, and I think I ought to have some time to study about it. Q. All right, then. Now, did he ever pay any money for the rent of tne telephone at his private residence? A. T don't remember of him paying me a cent Q. Well, do you say that he did or did not? A. I can't say positively about it at this length of time. Q. What is your best impression? A. That he did not. Q. And it is your best impression that only $8 was paid on my residence and that that was paid by a check? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is your best recollection? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then if you were deceived about that you may be deceived about the whole thing, may you not* A. I think not. Q. You think not? A. No, sir. Q. You can be positive about a part but not all of it? A. r think the books will show if they were here. Q. That is the pencil books memorandum books? A. Yes, sir. Q. Wasn't the 'phone rent in my office $4 then, the auxiliary? A. Yes, sir. Q. And my private residence 'phone rent $2 and Mr. Jacobson's was $2? A. Yes, sir. Q. Also making $4? A. Yes, sir. 332 Q. Being the same amount? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now if Mr. Jacobson paid his 'phone rent to you in cash, and paid you my 'phone rent in cash, what would keep you from sticking it in your pocket that cash in your pocket, and charging on your books there our private 'phone rent to the contingent fund? A. I didn't make up the contingent voucher. Q. But you put the entries on your books didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the amounts are just the same? A. Yes, sir. Q. $4 each way? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, why couldn't you stick $4 of our money in your pocket and show on your books there that the $4 was paid by the voucher on the contingent fund now answer that. In your system of book- keeping your accounts are put down just the same way our pri- vate residence 'phone is put down just the same as our office 'phone, and when you carried a bill there and Mr. Jacobson gave you a voucher for it and $2 for his private telephone and $2 for my private telephone, which would be $4 cash, what is to keep you from charg- ing on your books the residence 'phones and putting the $4 in your pocket? A. Simply because the rebate voucher was on the long distance bill. Q. The rebate; but you say that did not have anything to do with it. You say it is paid for in the face of the voucher in the money coming from the Auditor's office; you said the rebate voucher didn't have anything to do with that. Now what would keep you from doing that. You could do that, couldn't you? A. No. sir. Q. Why? A. How could I credit it up and put it in my pocket when I would certainly have to turn it in to balance my books. Q. Why, every time you failed to turn it into the company you would make that, wouldn't you? A. No, sir. Q. If you collected that $8 check from me and collected the private residence 'phone rent from Mr. Jacobson did you turn that into the company? A. Yes, sir. 333 Q. In full? A. Yes, sir. Q. Every cent of It that you collected? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are just as positive about that, too, as you are about any other statement that vou have made here ? A. Yes, sir. Q. You know that you turned in that check for $8? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, if you are deceived about that you may be deceived about this whole thing; are you willing to swear to that, or not? A. I think it will all show there; it is all turned over. Q. This bill is true? A. Yes, sir. Q. You stated last night that you had never gotten any pay for my private residence 'phone except this one check for $8? A. I don't remember. Q. Didn't you say that? A. If I said it I don't say positively that I did if I did I suppose it is so. Q. Well, did you state that or not? A. I think I stated that. Q. Is that true that you never got any other check or money or any other money or anything else in payment on my private residence 'phone except that one che*ck for $8? A. I don't know of any that I got. Q. If that is true now, Mr. Dougherty, that was on my private residence 'phone you were only there eight months; is that true? A. I was there something like eight or nine months. Q. About nine months; well say that it was nine months; now if you were there nine months my private telephone rent would have amounted to $18 $2 a month? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then if you received a check for $8 that would only leave $10 still unpaid, wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you say that that entire $10 was paid out of the con- tingent fund by a voucher drawn upon the Auditor's office? A. 1 did not. Q. What did you say? A. I didn't make any such a statement as that. 334 <4. Wny didn't you say you got $8 in a check and you say you turned that into the office; how was the other $10 paid; you said that the private telephone bills for Jacobson and myself were paid in the face of the warrant you got from the Auditor? A. I said some of them were; some of them were paid that way. Q. With the exception of that they were paid in the face of the voucher? A. Yes, sir. Q. They were all paid out of the face of the Auditor's warrant? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then there was $10 still remaining that was paid that way $8 was paid by check? A. I didn't say that. Q. Whatever it was that was paid was paid that way? A. Yes, sir. Q. D"o you know that that check was given for $8? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now will you examine this check and see what it is for, and see if that is your signature across the back of it and what month ft is paid in.? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that your signature across the back of it? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much is that check for? A. To the Southwestern T. & T. Company $4, Q. Read the whole business, A. 5-13-1902. Q. Well, what does it say? Read the check. A. Pay to the Southwestern T. & T. Company $4; signed Jeff Davis, by Jacobson. Q. Turn it over on the back now. A~. Southwestern T. & T. Company, by H. W. Dougherty. Q. Then you have collected $12 for my private 'phone, haven't you? A. I don't know whether that was on this or not. Q. Tt must be. A. I can't say what that check was for. Q. Does it not say the Southwestern Telegraph & Telephone Company? A, Yes, sir. Q. $4 would be for two months' rent, wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you collected on this check this is your handwriting? A. I will state this: as chief clerk all the checks are turned er to me and as chief clerk I sign them and deposit them in the bank. Q. Well, you were the collector in May, were you not? A. Yes, sir; but I don't say I received that check. Q. You collected the May bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. You took this check to the bank and the bank paid it, and this is for the May bill; you collected the May bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you signed this check on the back? A. Yes, sir. Q. You stated here awhile ago that that bill was paid by an Auditor's warrant? A. May 12th Q. What do you want to come here for now and tell such stuff as that? You got a check yourself, signed by me for that tele- phone bill of mine? A. I did not say so. Q. Now didn't you take that money and put it in your pocket and fix your books up put a false entry in your books in order to cover it up and make it to your own interest? A. No, sir. Q. You said that you had endorsed it and turned it over to the bank? A. Yes, sir. Q. The books will show you kept the books, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You took the receipts now take your books there and tell me how much money you have collected from me for long distance telephone messages the sum total of the whole business the actual cash you collected from my office and tell me the sum total of it? A. I can't do it. Q. Why? A. Because my books are not all here. Q. Can't you take the cash book and tell? A. No, sir; the books are not all 338 Q. You know enough about the books to be able to tell me the sum total that you have collected from my office for long distance telephone? How long would it take you to figure that up? A. I think it would take me about a half an hour or more to run through these books. Q. Let us see, if it takes the whole night. Well, let me just ask you this: will you make a statement showing the sum total of the long distance bills and the office bills rental and my residence 'phone rental and Jacobson's 'phone rental at his residence with the rebate taken off, and showing the amount of money that you got from the State and turned in to your company? A. I can't say in regard to that at all. Q. You can't? A. No, sir; I can't say how long it would take to do that. Q. Do you reckon you could make it up in a week? A. I think so. .j. I wish you would do that tomorrow and bring it back to- morrow night. Now will you do that; I want all the money that you have collected from me and from Jacobson and from my long dis- tance bills and my residence bills I want the four items; I don't mean any rebate; just actual cash what you got for long distance, residence, office rent and Jacobson's residence; the sum total of every dollar that you have collected. Now do you think you can get that account up? A. If the company will let me into the books it won't take long. Q. Well, you can do that, can you? A. I think I can if I can get at the books. Q. You will do that, will you, and bring it up here tomorrow night. I will show that I never spent a cent of their money. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Governor Davis says that this is your sys- tem of bookkeeping; now is it not a fact that this is a system of the telephone company and not your system? A. I say this little book that is the way they handle their business there; yes, sir. Q. So it is not your system? A. "No, sir; I did not originate the system. Q. The vouchers just read here will show for April and May how those telephone bills were paid but you haven't those books showing that A. No, sir. 337 EUGTENE B. JETT, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Your name is E. B. Jett? A. Yes, sir. Q. What is your business at present? A. I am assistant expert bookkeeper; have been for some time working for the Bank of Little Rock before its doors were closed. Q. What was your official position before that? A. I haven't had any for quite awhile. Q. Well, you went on a hunting trip with Governor Davis and a party out in western territory, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, is it or not a fact that when you got to the end of the line the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Railroad you went on the Choctaw, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, that a private coach was hitched on to the hind end of a construction train and hauled out there for you all to sleep in on that trip? A. We went out there sometime in December, 1901. Q. Well, that is a fact is it? A. Tes, sir. Q. In that party was Governor Davis and his boy and your- self A. There was Governor Davis and the Governor's boy, and a Mr. Thomasson and another gentleman he lived out at Shawnee, 1 think a man by the name of Reed, and myself. Q. How did you all happen to go on that trip? A. Well, Governor Davis and I had been talking about going out there on a trip we had talked about it during the summer months. We had frequently talked about going out there. Q. Well, you decided to go and the parties that you have named went in the party with you? A. Yes, sir; we went on the same train. Q. You didn't you just went up in the day coach, or rathar you just went out there in the day train A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you pay any fare? A. No. sir. Q. Did you ride on a pass ? A. 1 didn't; no, sir. 338 Q. Did anybody pay your fare that yon know ot? A. I didn't understand so. Q. When you got out there you say you went out to the end of the line; what was the place that you went to? A. It was no place; it was right at the end of the line it was right out in the prairie. Q. What was the name of the place? A. It had no name. Q. What was the name of the first town this side of there? A. Texola. Q. When you got there, as I understand, there was a section there and the railroad company placed at your disposal a coach 1 or you to stay in ? Q. When we got out as far as the regular trains ran, to a place called Sayre, the terminus the trains did not run beyond that point [hen; they stopped at Sayre the construction train wasn't there when we got there, we had to wait about twelve hours until it come in, and there was an old broke down passenger coach that ihey had there standing on the side track that they pulled but there on the back end of the construction train and we all lived in that. Q. You all lived in that and slept in it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you paid nothing at all to go out there? A. No, sir; I paid no transportation. Q. That wasn't the trip that Governor Davis and Mr. Briz/o- lara went on in September, was it? A. That was another trip; this was in 1901. Q. It was over the same road, though? A. I suppose so; we went over the Choctaw road. Q. How did you get back? A. Well, now I think we came back on the same road. Gov- ernor Davis was taken sick soon after we started back he and his boy had a chill and they went into the sleeper, and my recollection is that Mr. Thomasson and I remained in the car. Q. They didn't pull that car back here, did they; all the way down here? A. Yea, sir; it come back to Little Rock. Q. And you and Mr. Thomasson came back to Little Rock in that car to Little Rock? A. Yes, sir. My recollection Q. In the same car that you lived is wliile you were out tfceroj A. Yes, sir. 339 Q. And you didn't pay any fare coming back? A. No. sir. Q. Did Mr. Thomasson? A. I don't know. Q. Did Governor Davis, as far as you know? A. No, sir; I didn't see him pay any fare. Q. And that car that was taken from -Sayre was brought clear back here to Little Rock? A. Yes, sir. They wanted at several points to switch it off the conductor wanted to switch the car out of the train, but he never did and the car came on to Little Rock. Q. Governor Davis was in the sleeper, and his son, at the time you come back? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you say you did not have a pass over the Choctaw at all? A. No, sir; I had none. Q. Did you make any arrangements with the Choctaw officials for it? A. I did not; no, sir. Q. Do you know who did? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Did anybody invite you to go? A. Well, Governor Davis and I talked about it frequently before we went. Q. Did Governor Davis invite you to go? A. I was to be one of the party to go. Q. It was as Governor Davis' party; that is what I mean was It his party? A. I don't know whether it was his party or not. We all went together. Q. Did you ever say anything to any Choctaw official about taking you out there? A. No. sir. Q. And if Mr. Thomasson you did not know it? A. I do not know; no, sir. Q. He came over from Carlisle to go with you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you all leave from Little Rock? A. Yes, sir. A. And did Governor Davis leave here with you? A. Yes, sir. -340 Q. And he came back on the same train, only he and his little boy got sick and went in the sleeper? A. Yes, sir. Q. He came back in the sleeper on the same train? A. Yes, sir; sleeper on that train. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Jett, didn't you several times go with Governor Jones on some hunting trips? A. I went with Governor Jones on several trips. Q. Down in southern Texas? A. No, sir; we went over in the territory. Q. You didn't pay any fare then, did you? A. No, sir; I don't think I did. Q. Don't you know that you did not? A. I am satisfied that I did not, but 1 can't say positively that I did not, but I am pretty satisfied that I did not. Q. We just got on the train here went on the regular train from here out to this place, Texola, where the terminus of the road was? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it out in the Oklahoma Territory, or rather right on the line between Texas and Oklahoma? A. Yes, sir. Q. And there at that place there was a construction gang; the construction hands were there, there was barely any houses there at all? A. No, sir; just a little place. Q. ' And where we went it was a barren prairie absolutely nothing? A. Yes, sir; nothing there at all. Q. And the construction hands had an old broken down com- partment car down there, didn't they? A. Yes, sir. Q. Which they said we could use to sleep in while we were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that was all. When we started back home I took sick and went in the sleeper? A. Yes, sir. Q. Me and my little son went in the sleeper? A. Yes, sir. Q. And I was in it when we got back? A. Yes, sir. 341 V Q. I went in there a very short time after we started back? A. I don't know; it wasn't long. Q. It was a short distance after we started back? A. Yes, sir. Q. I went in the sleeper and took my little boy with me we went in there and went to sleep; I was sick? A. Yes, sir, you went in there. Q. And you say that there was no understanding that they were going to bring that car back to Little Rock? . A. I didn't know of anything of the kind; no, sir. Q. The car was just simply given us to sleep in while we were out there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you couldn't keep the railroad company from bringing it back here if they wanted to? A. No, sir, and I didn't try. Q. And that is all there is to it? A. That is all I know about it. Q. OBy Mr. - ) What was there about it that was broken ? A. I think there was a great big hole in the top of it and there was no locks on the doors at all. Q. It would rain through it, would it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you say the construction hands gave you that car? A. No, sir, I did not. Q. Who did? A. I don't know. Q. Don't you know it was some of the officials give you that car? A. I don't know; the only persons I saw there was that cre\* to give it to us. I don't know who give it: the only thing I know is that we got it. Q. (By Governor Davis) You knew that we got it from the construction men? A. Yes, sir; that it was on the construction train that pulled it up there is all I know about it. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Who applied for it? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know who did? A. No. sir. 342 Q. They just saw you and the circumstances of the case, and saw what shape you were in and gave you that special car; is that the way of it? A. That may have been furnished before I got there; I don't know anything about that. Q. (By Mr. McCain) There is one question it must have been you or Mr. Thomasson or Governor Davis that applied for it, as you were the only three that were there? A. There was that old man Reed, I believe his name was. Q. Well, one of you four? A. Yes. sir. Q. Someone most certainly must have applied for it? A. I suppose so or we wouldn't have got it, I reckon. I don't see how we could. CREED CALDWELL, on oath being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: (In Re Charge No. 23.) Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Were you ever employed through Mr. Altheimer himself, or either by Judge Jones as attorney or agent of Mr. Altheimer to offer what is known as the Hayward farm, down here on the Altheimer road, to the Penitentiary Board for a convict farm? A. General, I don't say employed; I don't know that that would exactly state it. Mr. Altheimer and Judge Jones talked to me spoke to me about that in Judge Jones' office, and I came and talked to some members of the board; but I don't know that there was really an employment about it, because I did not conduct any of the services to a terminus and did not go into and did not get any pay.. Q. You went from Mr. Altheimer or Mr. Jones with an offer 10 make to make an offer to the board did you at what price? A. Just let me say one thing, Colonel; I wasn't authorized to make a price. As I understood it the question was whether the board would purchase a farm at all and I talked with three members of the board in Little Rock I came to Little Rock that evening, I think it was, after talking with Mr. Altheimer, and I talked with three members of the board, I think it was Q. What three members? A. The Governor, Secretary of State and the Auditor of State. I believe that was the only three; that is my recollection, that I talked to 843 Q. Now Mr. Caldwell, I want to ask you the direct question if you were authorized to make an offer of that place at a certain price? A. No, sir; not at that time. Q. At a certain price per acre? A. I don't think I was. I will say that I am of the impression that at that time at the time I talked with these gentlemen (Colonel Murphy No, you need not tell your impression.) Well, the only way I could really get my impression, the way I think it was I thought at that time that there was something in the neigh- borhood of nine thousand acres of land belonging to that tract and known as the Altheimer place; and I think I stated to some members of the board that I supposed it cou.d be bought at that time, I thought at probably from $90,000 to $100,000. I don't just exactly know; but a little after that time I had a talk with Mr. Altheimer about it and he said the price was $92,500. I didn't even submit a bid of the place. Mr. Altheimer himself later submitted the bid to the board I believe. He told me afterwards that he had turned it over to Mr. Crockett. That was the only trip I made and I just talked to a part of the board, then. Q. Who were they? A. Mr. Crockett, Colonel Monroe and the Governor. Q. Didn't Mr. Alheimer and Mr. Jones tell you the limit at which you might sell it per acre? A. Well Q. Did they or not tell you that? A. They did not; no, sir. Q. Who authorized that? A. That is exactly what I wanted to explain to you. At the time I talked to them in Judge Jones' office, there was really nothing said about the price; the question was whether or not the board was going to buy the place at all; that is what I came up to talk to the board about. Later, when Mr. Altheimer came to Little Rock, the next evening, I think it was I talked with him at the Capital Hotel Q. Simply answer the question I asked, Mr. Caldwell. I want to know just if they did or did not tell you that you could sell it at a certain price per acre, before ycu left there to come up here to Little Rock? A. No, sir. 344 Q. Then you came up here without any understanding with cither Altheimer or Judge Jones as to what price you might sell it at? A. Yes, sir; because I say at the time we were talking at Judge Jones' office, it was not as to what to sell the farm at, but the question was whether or not the State would buy a farm, and BO I came up here and saw three members of the board, and they stated to me that they were in an attitude to buy a farm, and I told them I would, like to submit a proposition to sell the Altheimer place. Q. So you did come up here, that entire distance, with no understanding at all as to the price? A. Well, specifically no fixed price was named. And I was aware at the time that the Dickinson contract was likely to be abrogated and that the board would buy a place in that event, and so I talked to Mr. Altheimer about submitting a proposition to the board for the sale of his place to them for a convict farm, and Mr. Altheimer told me that he wanted $100,000 for his place that was over here at the hotel, and we discussed the matter quite a little, and Mr. Altheimer finally agreed to bring the price down to $92,500. I did not submit the bid. Mr. Altheimer later on submitted that lo the Secretary of State, as secretary of the board. Q. They both told you that, both Altheimer and Mr. Crockett? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you find anything about the acreage in the place when you got up there? A. No, sir. Q. Where did you get the belief that there was nine thousand acres of it? A. I don't know, just exactly, Colonel Murphy; but I think I understood it from Mr. Altheimer. I got the impression that there was something like that in it from Mr. Altheimer. I thought Mr. Altheimer stated that there was something over nine thousand acres of land. Q. Now, did you not know that there was less than six thousand acres? A. I thought at least there was six thousand acres according to the map of the place. I never did see the place, because I never had any further connection with it. I did not even submit the bid. Q. You did not tell Colonel Monroe or Crockett or Governor Davis that you were authorized to sell it at $10 an acre, or to offer it to the board at $10 an acre I 345 A. No, sir. My recollection is that I stated to Colonel Monroe and Mr. Crockett, that I believed that this place could be had at a price of about $10 an acre, believing at that time that there was somewhere in the neighborhood of nine thousand acres of land there. LOUIS ALTHEIMER, on oath, being by the Chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies -as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You are the owner of the Hay ward farm, Mr. Altheimer? A. Yes, sir, I am; my son and myself. Q. Do you know Mr. Creed Caldwell? A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. You once offered that farm to the Penitentiary Board, did you not? A. I did. Q. In 1900. A. Yes, sir; I believe so. Q. You offered it at that price? A. That offer was at first $87,500. Q. What was its acreage? A. 6,040 acres. Q. Through whom did you make the offer, if not directly? A. By a written proposition to the board, or its secretary. Q. Who prepared the written p.oposition? A. My son, Maurice L. Altheimer. Q. Did you talk with any member of the board before that was presented? A. I did. Q. Who? A. Well, with the board with the exception of you, Colonel, went down and examined Hayward examined the farm, and it was right there and just about the time they were taking the train for Little Rock, late in the afternoon. Governor Davis said to me my son and me, as follows: He says, "I am greatly impressed with your property, and I am in favor of purchasing it purchasing the property, but I want you to understand that you must deal with the State as far as the price is concerned like you would with an individual. I don't want you to have any Creed Caldwell, real estate agent or anybody else connected with it. I like the place, for its location, for its soil, etc., and I am satisfied the board ia anxious to buy a place at a price and to the advantage and benefit of the State for a convict farm. Now, gentlemen, do as I tell you 346 and I am for you, if not, I am against you." I remarked and said "Governor, we fully coincide with your views and that is exactly right, and what we will do; we will deal direct with the board, with you, with the State." Furthermore, I said "Governor, I have fought you politically, but you are* the Governor of the State, you are Governor now of our State, and I am proud to find you an honest man." And the Governor following, said, "Yes, I am a poor, honest man,, that is the very words he used "I am a poor, honest man; I have a large family and I have to live in Little Rock, but when my time expires my term of office expires, I expect to step down and out a poorer, but honest man." Q. Now, where did that conversation occur? A. That was at Hayward, just before we took the train for Little Rock that afternoon. Q. Who was present? A. My son, Governor Davis and myself. Q. Where were you? A. We were at Hayward Station, on the platform, waiting for the train. Q. What other members of the board had gone with you? A. Captain Monroe, Mr. Hill and Mr. Crockett, and well, there was one or two other men. Q. Where were Monroe, Crockett and Hill? A. When we were talking? Q. When you were having this conversation? A. They were off to themselves. Q. Had your offer been put in? A. I don't think it was. Yes, sir; think it was already in. Yes, I believe I said to the Governor, "Our price is $90,000," and the Governor said, "You've got to come down from that." Q. When was that that you came down to $87,500? A. Well, now, Colonel, I don't know the exact time. Q. Well, now, when was it, before or after they went down there that you put in that offer at $87,500? A. I think it was after. Q. Do you remember where the offer was prepared where it was prepared? A. I don't remember now where the offer was prepared, but I do remember where the other offer was prepared there was another offer after this. 847 Q. Let us get through with one, then we will take up the other one. You had put in one offer at $90,000? A. I did not; I spoke of $90,000. Q. Had you put in an offer when they went down there to examine the farm, a written offer? A. I don't think I had; but if I did, it was in writing. Q. Was there a written offer put in to sell that property to the board at $90,000? A. I think it was $87,500. Q. Prom the beginning? A. I think so. Q. Now, that offer was kept before the board for some time, wasn't it? A. Well, I will say this much Q. Wasn't it kept before the board for some time, Mr. Altheimer? A. I don't remember, Colonel, if it was kept some time. Q. Did you, subsequent to that time, have any further conver- sation with the Governor about it? A. The day that the board met to buy a farm I think, if I am not mistaken, it was that day, my son and myself were in the front room, you might say, the Governor came out to us and he remarked, he said, "Gentlemen, you are too high with your price: you will have to come down you will have to got down to $75,000; if you' will put it down to $75,000 I think the board will buy it," but I said to the Governor, "We can't do it;" and rny son remarked, he said, "Father, sell them the place, this is an opportunity to sell a place of such a size and such a price; I am in St. Louis, and you are here, and I will be in St. Louis and you are here, and you are getting up in age, and I would take it if I was you; you have prop- erty to take care of you during your life, and so sell it and don't work so hard. Take my advice," he said. I remarked to the Governor, I said, "Governor, we will do it," and he said, "put it in writing," and so he went back in his room, and then my son there was a typewriter there in the office and he got permission to use it, and he took the typewriter and drew up the proposition the Governor had remarked one-fifth cash, the balance at 1, 2, 3, 4, well, I don't remember exactly the deferred payments, and he wrote up the proposition and he went and gave it to the board, and if I am not mistaken, he gave it to Mr. Crockett. Q. That was the $75,000 proposition? 348- A. Yes, sir. And then I sit there in the office waiting to see what you all would do and I heard something, and I listened, and that was the first time I heard a Democratic row. I knew it was not a Republican love feast, but that it was a Democratic row, and in about an hour or a half an hour the Governor came out, and he said they don't want your place. I said, "Maurice, go and get the papers," and he went in and brought the papers and we left there, and we haven't been before that board now for a year and a half, and the only thing I said to the Governor was, "Governor, if you want the Hayward plantation, you know where to find me and my place," and I think I told you the same thing, Colonel Murphy, and I told Captain Monroe the same thing, and one or two others, and I have only visited you on social calls since then once or twice since then, I think. I knew that you knew where to find me if you wanted the place Q. And that was the last time you were before the board when this occurred when you made the offer of $75,000. Mr. Altheimer? A. Yes, sir; to my best knoledge. Q. Were you ever before the board in person, after you told Governor Davis that you would sell that farm to the board for $75,000 after that? A. I don't remember. Q. After you told him you would take $75,000, were you ever before the board? A. I was before the board Q. Before they took a vote on it? A. Not that I remember. Q. Do you remember making the announcement to any other member of the board that you would take $75,000; or that you would sell the place for $75,000? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who? A. Members of the board. Q. To any member of the board? A. Before the board. Q. Before the board? A. Why, Colonel. I believe I told you about it. Q. No, sir; you never did. I want to refresh your memory about it now; in that very last meeting of the board in which your place was considered, I want to know if Governor Davis did not call you in there before the board and examine you as to what you would sell for, and asked you the question directly if you could not take 349 less than $87,500, and that you did not swear there positively thai you could not? A. I didn't swear before the board. Q. Didn't you? A. No, sir. Q. Now, did you or did you not appear before the board in that last, the very last meeting the last time, and the interrogatories were propounded to you by the Governor, and didn't you say posi- tively that you could not afford to take less than $87,500 for that farm? A. I didn't know I was swearing Q. Did you go before the board and state it, swear or not swear that? A. I say this, I was probably in there at the time, went in there on a matter of business. I wasn't before the board. Q. Just answer my question, Mr. Altheimer; do you recollect that Governor Davis walked out of the room from his office where the meeting was being held and call you in there before the board? A. At one time, yes, sir. Q. And isn't that the last time that you was ever there with an offer of sale? A. No, sir; that was when you had the Beakley farm trial up. Q. After the Beakley farm was up, were you ever before the board at any time? A. No, sir. Q. Then that was the last time. Well, now, do you not in answer to a question asked you by Governor Davis as to the best you could take, or if you could not take less than $87,500, state that you could not? A. I don't remember that, Colonel. Q. Well, if it is true that you did tell him and did hand Crockett a written statement that you would take $75,000 for that property, would you go before the board and state on oath that you could not afford to take less than $87,500? A. I told you that the $75,000 proposition was made when they had it up but I never did go before the board when you had your own private matters. Q. The very last time you were before the board, did you not state that at that time? A. I never remember any more about it. The $75,000 propo- sition was made in a written proposition. When I was before the board it was a matter prior to that $75,000 proposition. 350 Q. Now, I want you to go back to your appearance before the board at the last meeting. I would like for you to refresh your memory about it and answer my question, if at that time Governor Davis did not call you before the board and ask you if you could not afford to take or to accept for your property less than $87,500. Did he call you before the board at that time and ask you that question? A. If he did ask me that question, I don't remember it, but I remember that was the meeting prior to that last meeting you speak of. Q. Did you or did you not, just answer the question? A. I remember distinctly this, that I was not called in at the time you had that great row, when you all had that great row. It wasn't at that meeting. Q. Wasn't it right after that row that he told you it was all off? A. It was some time before I was called before the board, but if it was as much as a month, I don't remember; but it was some time before that $75,000 proposition was made at the meeting I was called. I don't know what you folks done in there, it was all done behind locked doors, and I stayed in the front room; I wasn't in there. Q. You were not called in there at all 9 A. No, sir. Q. You didn't come before the board? A. No, sir. Q. Well, did you ever come before it and state that $87,500 was the least sum that you could take? A. If I did, I don't remember it (turning to the stenographer, "put it down that way"). Q. Now, Mr. Altheimer, are you unable to remember whether you had such a conversation as that at all, or what is your impression, that that conversation occurred at a meeting, the meet- ing before the last one when you made the $75,000 offer? A. I heard a racket and the next thing the Governor came out and said it was all off, and so we withdrew our papers, and 1 never had any more to do with the board, except when I meet them In a social way, and only told you that when you want Hayward you know where to find it. I meant no disrespect to you, though, by that; I just felt you didn't want my place. Q. Who was your agent for the sale of that place? A. Not a soul. 351 Q. Who did you confer with about it^ A. Not a soul. Q. Did you not at one time see Governor Davis in St. Louis and talk with him, together with your son and Sam West? A. I never met the Governor just but one time, and that was only for about five minutes, and we shook hands, and then I asked him to take a drink with me and he wouldn't do it. Q. How did you happen to meet him there? A. Just by chance. Q. Was there anything said between you about that place? A. No, sir. Q. About the selling of that place to the penitentiary? A. No, sir. Q. When was that? A. I don't remember that. Q. Can you state what month it was? A. I don't remember that, even. Q. Where was it you met him; at whose office? A. I don't remember. Q. At whose office? A. I think I met him at the Lindell Hotel. Q. Didn't you meet him there that very day and have a con- versation with him about the sale of that place to the Penitentiary Board? A. I did not. No, I don't that I remember, sir. I did not. Q. Between the time when the Beakley place was discussed and the determination reached not to buy it and the time when your place was up for sale, did you not meet the Governor in St. Louis in company with yourself and your son, Maurice; and did you not meet there in St. Louis in the office of your son? A. No, sir; we did not. Q. You did meet him there, though, occasionally? A. I was at the Lindell and I just happened to run across the governor and I shook hands with him. Q. Did you and your son, Maurice, and the Governor not talk together? A. That I don't know, sir. Q. And Mr. Sam West? A. I don't know, sir. Mr. West is one man, my son is a man and 1 am myself. No, sir; on this particular incident I just went up to the Governor and shook hands with him and asked him to come and take a drink, and he refused to do it 352 Q. Now, is it not a fact, sir, that you and your son, Maurice, and Governor Davis were in company together at the time or not; now answer that question, yes or no? A. We were not. Q. When you met him there, Maurice was not with you? A. No, sir. Q. You and Maurice and the Governor were not together then in St. Louis at all? A. No, sir; not that I know of. Q. Well, wouldn't you have known of it if you had been? A. They could have met and me not see it. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Altheimer, was there ever a conversation in which your place was mentioned between you and me in St. Louis? A. Not that I remember of, Governor. Q. He asked you if you and Sam West and your son, Maurice, and Governor Davis met there for the purpose of selling this place to the State, now was there ever a meeting between you and me and your son and Sam West in our lives? A. No, sir. Q. I don't see where Sam West comes in it. Have we talked there about the sale of this place met there to talk about the sale of this place or anywhere else? A. No, sir. Q. Never in our lives' A. No, sir. Q. You just merely met there, you and your son, Maurice, in St. Louis? A. Yes, sir; and shook hands with you and Q. You just merely met me there in St. Louis and shook hands together? A. Yes, sir; and I asked you to take a drink and you refused. Q. Well, I don't remember that; I think you are stretching the blanket there a little. A. No, no, Governor. Q. Now, when this contract was made about this place of yours down there, you made your first offer at $87,500 . A. Yes, sir. Q. And I told you that if there was anything to be given as commissions or any reductions that it must be given to the State and not to any agent? A. Yes, sir. 353 Q. That whatever there was in the way of profits must come to the State in the way of commissions? A. Yes, sir; you said you didn't want any Creed Caldwell or any agents Q. And you then offered the place for $87,500? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that was the time when we had the row about the Beakley place and had witnesses up here? A. Yes, sir. Q. I was objecting to the Beakley place because I thought there was too much water around there on that Beakley place and that sort of a thing, and I filed that protest against it? A. Yes, sir; and pardon me, Governor, but that was the time when I was on the stand before the committee and the only time. Q. Now afterwards at a meeting when you came to Little Rock to see about the matter and the board was in session and I told you that I thought your place could be sold for $75,000, and then you consulted with your son Maurice about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Maurice had written up your first proposition, and so you consulted with your son Maurice about it, and you finally consented to sell it for that and told me that you would take that for it, and I then told you to put it in wriing and submit it to the board? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Maurice got some stenographer in the office to put it in writing on the typewriter, and I went on back in the board? A. Yes, sir. Q. I went on back in the board meeting? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Maurice put the proposition in writing and you sub- mitted it to the board? A. Yes, sir; that is right. Q. And then after the board rejected your place you with- drew your papers? A. Yes, sir. Q. All the propositions you had in? A. Yes, sir. Q. The secretary gave the offers that you had filed back to you? A. Yes, sir. Testimony 12. 354 Q. It has been intimated through the press and other places that you were to pay me a certain stipulated sum in consideration of your selling your place; is that true or not? A. Governor, I say that is as false as hell. . (Chairman cautions witness about his language in making his answers.) Q. You never did that or contemplated giving me one cent did you? A. Never. Q. You never either stated or intimated it? A. No, sir. Q. There was nothing like that stated between us? A. Never. Q. Directly, indirectly, inferentially or otherwise? A. Not at all. Q. It was a straight, honest transaction? A. Yes, sir, it was, Governor. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Altheimer, don't you know that you lie like a dog? A. (Mr. Altheimer rises to his feet) Mr. Chairman, I can't stand this; Colonel Murphy is an old grey-headed man (And then the chair ordered the sheriff to stop the row.) Q. (By Governor Davis) There has been something stated here that you made a proposition to sell that place to Mr. Willie for $30,000; did you do that? A. I did not, sir. Q. What porportion of the place did you offer to sell to Mr. Willie? A. I never made a proposition to sell to Mr. Willie. My son and Mr. Willie were talking about 2,200 acres out of the 6,040. I never proposed at any time, Governor, to sell him my whole farm. Q. It was never proposed to sell him the whole farm? A. No, sir; and he and my son were talking about that? Q. There was never any proposition to sell any more than 2,200 acres out of that farm? A. No, sir. Q. Do you remember at what price that was? A. My son spoke to me about that, and I told him that we would take $40,000 for it, and he said he thought he could get $37,000 or $35,000 for it, and said I think we better take it; that is all I know about it. 355 Q. How much in actual money have you spent in improving that farm? A. About $75,000. Q. How many miles of railroad goes through that farm? A. Three miles. Q. Have you a private station on that farm? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many cabins have you got on it? A. About 120; and I have got a gin, two barns and four dwel- ling houses on it. .Q. What is the rental of the place; what does it rent for per year what will you get for it this year? A. This last crop season, if we get it all gathered, we rent it for a fourth, and it will run up I expect about $9,000. Q. How much of that land is in cultivation; you say there is about 6,000 acres altogether? A. Yes, sir; 6,040 acres. There is in cultivation on the four places 2,500 acres. Q. Out of the 6.000? A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you if the balance of it is not in the forest virgin forest timber? A. Yes, sir; with the exception of about five or six hundred acres of it has been deadened. Q. There is about 3,000 acres in the timber? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is in the virgin timber and the best land? A. Yes, sir. Q. How close it is to the railroad? A. In a mile and a quarter of the road. Q. (By Mr. Holland) What kind of timber is there on that place? A. It is gum, oak all species of oak and hickory and elm, and such timber as is found in the Arkansas River bottoms. Q. Any cypress? A. No, sir; no cypress. Out of the 6,040 acres you can put nearly 6,000 acres in cultivation. There has been a great deal said about craw-fish business, and I would like to say this about that craw-fish 356 T. L. POWELL, being recalled on behalf of Governor Davis, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. Mr. Powell, are you the manager of the Southwestern Telegraph and Telephone Company? A. No, sir, I am not; I am the State Superintendent. Q. Have you had occasion at my request to-day to go through carefully the books in your office during the months that Mr. Dougherty was collector to see what is the status of my account with your company? A. Yes, sir; I have done so. Q. Have you prepared a statement of that? A. Yes, sir. Q. Mr. Powell, I want to ask you whether the admission of this young man, Dougherty, that he collected at some time I don't remember the date now, a check for $8 to be credited on my private telephone at my residence you heard that admission, did you? A. I did. Q. Has he ever turned in the full amount for that check to the company? A. I cant say that he has. Q. Can you say that he has not? A. I can say how much he turned in for the month in which he said he collected the $8 check. Q. He don't say which month he collected this though? A. Yes, sir; I think he does. Q. Well, how much of that $8 check does he account for? A. $5. Q. You saw me produce a check here for $4 on my account; has he accounted to you for that? A. I can't say that he has. Q. I will ask you if through your examination of these books you have found any discrepancies between the cash that he received and the amounts that he turned in? A. There are apparent discrepancies between the amount he received from the State and the amount turned over to the tele- phone company. Q. Now, Mr. Powell, let me ask you how much money on my account has been paid your company for the following items: long distance bills, office telephone, residence telephone, from Novem- ber 1. 1901, to May, 1902, inclusive? 357 A. Long distance, $174.55; Governor Davis, $25, and the Gov- ernor's residence, $22; total, $221.55. Q. Now what rebate has been given the sum total? A. $18.54. Q. You have then as a balance? A. $202.44. Collected from the State, $220.98. Q. And you take off the rebate and it is how much? A. About $203. Q. Then the funds nearly balance? A. About a dollar difference. Q. Now, Mr. Powell, that is all the money that has been received by voucher during the time that Mr. Dougherty was the collector in there? A. No, there is one discrepancy here that I haven't got, and that is for the month of October; he collected for on the 14th of November, but his deposits and credits are correct, but that col- lection in November I can't account for $15, I think it is cor- rect though Q. That is the long distance bill? A. Part of it, and part of it is for private telephones. I have not verified that. That is the way it shows en his little books. I haven't verified it as to its correctness yet. Q. Well, is it possible by the books and by the verifications that you have made that Mr. Jacobson's telephone at his private residence could be included in that account? A. I should say that it was not. Q. It is not possible for his 'phone at his house to be included in there? A. The charges during the period covered by Mr. Dougherty's collections is $221.55; he has charged Governor Davis' private res- idence and Davis' long distance bill; and there was received from the State during that time $202.44, and the rebate allowed was $18.54, which makes the $220.98; that would show, according to those figures, that it would be impossible for Mr. Jacobson's tele- phone bill to be included in there, because he would have to have more money, that is, there would be more extended than he had money to show for, for Mr. Jacobson's bill during that period would be something like well Mr. Jacobson has paid something like $14. But there is the further fact that $1S during the period that Dougherty collected the $18 is charged to checks, and $13 paid by somebody, I don't know who. 358 Q. So his account is square? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then it is not included in the vouchers obtained from the State? A. Well, if it is, I can't find it. Q. Didn't you examine the vouchers in the Auditor's office for that purpose? A. Yes, sir; I have examined the vouchers in the Auditor's office. Q. Well, now if this if Mr. Jacobson should have paid this boy for my telephone bill and his telephone bill in cash, he could have put that money in his pocket and could have accounted for it to the company in this way, couldn't he? A. That I am not prepared to say, Governor, that he coulcl or not. I merely took the amount of money collected from the State and the amount he turned in. Q. He said that Jocobson's bill was paid by the State that my bill was paid by a voucher on the Auditor and that Jacob- son's bill was paid in the same way? A. I think there was enough money turned over to the com- pany to pay it, but I don't think we received enough money from the State to cover it. Q. Couldn't he take that money that was paid for my telephone rent my 'phone rent at my office, $4 A. Yes, sir Q. And my 'phone rent at my house was $2? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, when he collected this couldn't he have taken half of that money and put it in his pocket and charged me up there in the voucher with, my residence telephone I mean in his book with my residence telephone and put that money in his pocket? He could have credited up $2, and put the other $2 in his pocket? A. Well, I can't agree with that proposition. Q. But could he have put it in his pocket without accounting to the company for it? A. Not unless he collected from two parties the same thing from two parties. Unless he collected from the State and from you the second time, and then he could. Q. If he had collected from both, then he could have kept the money. Anyway there is no doubt but what he has not accounted for the money? 359 A. This check that I spoke of, it has the appearance that only $5 of it was turned, making a discrepancy of $3 there. Q. How did you collect my 'phone account; it amounts to $18 for the nine months you have got no account of this $4 check? A. I could not find it; no, sir. Q. And you have got no account of this $5 check? A. I couldn't find it. Q. And only $5 of this $8 check? A. There is a warrant in the Treasurer's office that I exam- ined to-day; it seems that it has $5, Governor Davis, long distance bill, $22.70; office rent, $1; Governor's residence, $10 Q. You mean that is shown by the voucher itself? A. No, sir; the voucher shows $32.70. Q. How you get that my residence 'phone is being paid for, that is from the books of the company A. Yes, sir. The voucher was for $32.70; the State paid the bills; I don't know how he got the money, but he has got Governor Davis credited with $22.70; Governor's office, $1; Governor's res- idence, $10; Jacobson, $2; total, $35.70. He received from the State $30.70; he shows that he received from the office a check for $8, making a discrepancy in his account of $3. Q. Now what other discrepancy is there in the account, being in the way of money? A. Well, this check $4, that makes $7. There is that that he said he collected that he didn't account for. Q. What other discrepancy A. In December the bill is $18.70; total is $22.90; he turns in from the State $24.40; making that time that he turned in 50 cents more than the collections, which I believe he explained that it was collected from some transfer company. In November he turns in to the company collections, voucher for $22.15, and credits with bills $18.15, residence $2, Jacobson $2. Q. That is his books; not shown by the voucher? A. Yes, sir; what he turned into the company from the day books. He credits for the month on his books show $18.15, and $2 for Governor's residence and $2 from Jacobson's residence, making the total of $22.15, balancing with the voucher issued by the treasurer's office. Q. Did he make his books tally with the voucher; does he? A. Yes, sir; in that instance he tallies. Now the next one is for March. He credits the Governor's office with bills, $22.15; 360 auxiliary, $1; residence, $2; Jacobson, $2; total, $28.15, and charges up with voucher from the State for $28.15. Q. Well, the next month is A. The next month he collects $50.65 from the State. He has credited to the Governor's office $45.65, that I think should be $41.65; office rent, $1.90; Governor's residence, $1.35; Jacob- son's, $1.75, making a total of $46.65. Q. Well, and then now he has a discrepancy of the $4, nearly $4 according to that? A. Yes, sir. I may be mistaken about that. I might have made a mistake in taking it off the books. Q. That makes $11 that we have found that he has no accounted for? A. On April account he credits bills, $17.24; Governor Davis, $11.60; Governor's office, $1; Governor's residence, $2; Jacobson's residence, $2, making a total of $31.84, and he collects from the State, $29.84, and the Governor's residence, making $4 overpaid there. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. Powell, when did you first dis- cover these discrepancies that you say is in this young mans account? A. I never invesfisated his account until this morning. Q. W T asn't you the general manager of the company, and wasn't it your business to do so? A. No, sir; it was the auditor's business to check up the accounts; it wasn't my business. Q. Well, has he checked it up? A. Yes, sir; I think he has checked it up; I think Dougherty was checked out when he left here. Q. He was checked out by an officer the auditor of the tcompany ? A. I could not say that. Q. He was, though? A. I don't know. Q. Who did you think it was? A. I had no idea who it was that checked him out. Q. Now do you say the auditor would not even report to you when he had checked a man out? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then it was the auditor? A. The auditor never reported there. 361 ^ Q. The company does not permit you to check out men; it employs special men to do that? A. No, sir; I have checked out people. Q. Did you check out this man? A. No, sir. Q. The company had another man? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he was reported to the company as perfectly straight and honest? A. Yes, sir. Q. And on that you gave him a letter to the public, that he was perfectly straight and honest? A. I don't want to be misunderstood. I did not suppose there was anything against Mr. Dougherty except what I have stated, and so Mr. Farnsworth gave him a letter, and if you will read it over more carefully, you would see that it recommends him for handling the company's money satisfactorily and being a capable telephone man. Q. Well, he had been in the employ of the company all this time and you had never found out about his stealing this money, until Governor Davis asked you? A. I didn't know anything about the records, and only exam- ined them at the request of Governor Davis. Q. You did not know anything about the records yourself, personally? A. No, sir. I never had any particular reason for examining the records. Q. Well, did you see all these books that we wanted? A. I did. Q. Where are they? A. They are at our office there. Q. I mean his private business? A. They are the company's books. Q. Then I misunderstood you; the reason I am asking you was that Governor Davis has spoken of them as his books? A. They are the books of the telephone company. They are books furnished the collectors by the company. Q. Then they are not his books? A. I don't think so. Q. Do you think the books were taken away from there by Mr. Dougherty? 362 A. I don't know. Q. Do you say that he did not? A. No, sir. Q. You say that the books he had belonged to the company and not to him? A. Yes, sir; they are the company's records; they were bought by the company and furnished to the collectors. Q. Then you didn't have all of the books before you, so it is possible for you to say that Charles Jacobson's account wasn't paid as he said it was, and that it was improper to make that charge against him that you have if you haven't made an exam- ination into all the books at the instance of the Governor. Now I will ask you again A. I will say to you that there appears to be a discrepancy between these figures where Mr. Dougherty said he got a check from Governor Davis for $8, and he has not turned in but $5 of it. But this '$4 check is not properly accounted for in the month of May. Q. How? A. Well, right here the warrant was issued by the Auditor for $29.84, and Mr. Dougherty has credited up $33.84, making $4 that he was overpaid and has not accounted for. That included Mr. Jacobson's bill. Q. Now don't you think the Governor is mistaken in his charges against this man, if he does account for these discrepancies? A. If he does; yes, sir Q. Now, Mr. Powell, you are just as positive about this as you are about anything else that you have testified to here? A. If you will just wait I will read you the report again of what he turned in. I am not here to be bulldozed; I have no interest in this matter on my part. You have asked this question and I want to explain it again. The Auditors warrant called for $29.84, that Mr. Dougherty turned in that much; and he col- lected also from the Governor's residence $2, and from Jacob- son's residence $2, making a total of $33.84, leaving $4 that he has not accounted for, that is all 1 know about it. Q. You don't make any claim that this man just deliberately took that money? A. I do not. Q. You don't make that claim? A. No, sir. 363 Q. For all you know he was checked out straight for all you know he may be perfectly straight with the company? A. Yes, sit. Q. Well, if you didn't think he was perfectly straight you would not have endorsed that letter turning him on the public as an honest and competent man? A. Yes, sir; I just endorsed that letter Q. Well you would endorse it now, wouldn't you? A. No, sir; I wouldn't until he explained what he did with that $3. The check shows that he was paid $3 more than he turned in, and I would want to know what he did with that $3; I would want to know whether he kept it himself or not before I would endorse it. Q. What $3 is that? A. Well it shows here that he collected $8 collected an $8 check from the Governor and did not turn in but $5 or it. Q. Didn't he pay the company all that was due it? A. Well, now I don't know whether he did or not. Q. You don't know anything about it, do you? A. Yes, sir; I know nothing. Q. That is what I want to get at; what you do know. A. Mr. Dougherty shows that he collected $8 and turned in to the company $5. Q. Well, if he had collected $8, Mr. Powell, and that warrant for the same bills; wouldn't he have collected too much? A. I am not saying that he did; I can't say that he did. Q. Well, isn't that how to explain it one way? A. If he collected $3 too much, he should have refunded it to Governor Davis. Q. I am asking you if he collected $8 and at that same time got an Auditor's warrant covering the same amount, wouldn't he have collected too much money on the bills that had been sent out; is that not true? A. The voucher $30.70, and he said he got $8, which would make $38.70, and he only turned in $35.70, he would have been paid just $3 too much. Q. If there was an $8 check given at the time for what was covered already by the voucher he would be that much above A. I suppose so. Q. Well, if three dollars of it was not turned on that bill it just shows that there was so much from Jacobson and so much from Davis at that time from the two residences, and the amounts that he 364- turned in on that bill was $3 less than what it appears he collected, you say; now, didn't he cover that on some back rent that was due from the Governor? A. I can't say. Q. Can't you look at it and see; have you got no way of telling? A. Yes, sir; we have the records. Q. Now, if there was a balance due on Governor Davis' private account at the time, when he got the money may he not have credited it up to that back account? A. I am just wanting to find what went with it, how he fixed it. Q. Well, if Governor Davis' private bill at his residence was $6, and Dougherty got a check for $8 he could have given him credit for the balance on his back account? A. Yes, he could Q. But what I am wanting to find out is whether he turned in all that was due to the company? A. No, sir Q. How much was due from them, and how much was turned in? A. Governor Davis' private account was overdue Q. If you would just merely state the amounts you need not go into the items, of Governor Davis' and Mr. Jacobson's account, we could take the amounts then and strike a balance? A. We had $22.70 against Governor Davis at his office and $8 against his residence, I think. I haven't got that account Q. Can you get it? A. I suppose I can get it by going back for that month. Q. How much did he turn in? A. $35. Q. You had $20 long distance? A. H paid $22.70 long distance; $1 at the office, $10 at the residence, and Jacobson $2 making a total of $35.70. Q. And he turned in how much? A. $35.70. Q. That same day? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much was due? A. I am not prepared to say; but he says he collected $38.70.. Q. And only turned in $35? A. Yes, sir. 365 Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Powell, when was it he said he turned in $38, what month was that for? A. December for November. Q. How much of that would be taken off for rebate, long distance messages, any? A. I can't say, Colonel Murphy, how much was taken off for rebate on the long distance telephone. I am not prepared to say. I haven't got the voucher. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) There is a difference now of $3 dis- crepancy from your books, and from the fact that he has testified about having collected $8 A. Mr. Dougherty testified that he had collected an $8 check from Governor Davis for this month, and our books show that he only turned in $5 of it Q. And you say there is a discrepancy of $3 here, now, I want to know whether you have that from your own books, or how do you find it to testify about it? A. No, sir; my books don't show any discrepancy. Q. (By Mr. McCain) When did you state that Mr. Dougherty had collected $38? A. He didn't state that he had collected $38; he said that ha had received a check from Governor Davis for $8 in this month. Q. Did you find that discrepancy before to-night or this morn- ing, and in which month did you find it? A. I heard Mr. Dougherty's statement last night in reference to having collected the check. Q. In what month did he say that he had collected it? A. He didn't state what month. Q. Then, where did you find it? A. I found it in the month of November, where he had collecta-.i it in December, where he had credited Governor Davis and Jacoo- son's account with $35.70, when the auditor shows it for $30,7<> collected. Q. That he had credited them with that much? A. He had credited them with $5 more than he had receive! from the auditor's office. Q. Then you were the ones that got the benefit of the $5 too much? A. No, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) What do Governor Davis and Mr. Jacobson's telephone bill and long distance bills all amount to during the periods covered by Mr. Dougherty's collections? 366 A. The Governor's $221.55, Jacobson's $18. Q. That was from when to when? A. From November to June, 1901 to 1902. Q. Does that embrace the whole time that Mr. Dougherty collected for you? A. With the exception of the month of October, when the collection he made was fifteen something, but I think we got that. Q. What is the difference between the total amount he collected during that time and the amount he turned in, if you deduct the fifteen per cent rebate^ for the long distance telephone? A. About one dollar. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Do you know how this rebate busi- ness is accounted for on the books, whether it is accounted for as so much cash or not? A. No, sir; I don't know. Q. Who knows about it? A. I presume Mr. - - and Mr. Deshon, they are the only ones that know so far as I know. Q. Your books don't show that Jacobson is owing for his telephone bills during that time, do they? A. No, sir; shows his bills paid promptly each month. Q. Then it is a question of veracity between Mr. Jacobson and Mr. Dougherty as to whether that was paid in cash, that, of course, would be for the committee? A. My recollection is that the warrant paid by the treasury states as follows I have read this statement once, but I will read it again; I would state that Governor Davis paid $221.55 the warrant was for $202.44; rebate was $18.54, which would make $220.98, leaving a difference of less than one dollar. Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Powell, they make all this fuss about $3, they don't go into the proposition that you stated that this man took in a considerable amount of money that you have not received the sum total of, for my private telephone and for Jacobson's that he has not accounted for, didn't you say that? A. If it is in there, I can't find it. Q. Have you searched carefully to see if there was any indi- vidual bills improperly paid by the State? A. No, sir. Q. Mr. Dougherty swears that it was paid by the State; you say that there was no individual bills paid by the State; he said that the voucher included Jacobson's private telephone bills, and 367 you say there is a discrepancy between the amounts he reported to have collected and the amounts he turned in to the office? A. I say it appears to be a discrepancy. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Now, when you speak about the amount paid by the State, do you mean the amount shown by the vouchers, or rather by the warrants? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you seen the mislaid warrant or voucher? A. No, sir; I didn't see the November warrant. Q. Did you find that it was for less? A. The November warrant; I don't think the November war- rant was produced to me. I think the clerk said that it was mislaid. Q. So you do not include that in this total? A. I taken the treasurer's books for the amount that was paid to Dougherty and checked his account with that. Q. Now, how much does the amount that was paid in and the the amount that Dougherty shows that was paid in money, how much does it lack of being sufficient to embrace Jacobson's account and the Governor's? A. $18. Q. Did you include in that the cash that he says he received? A. Yes, sir; the $5 and the $4 $9. Q. So then, he has paid you up within one dollar of all the bills that he had out? A. There appears to be a discrepancy of less than one dollar. Q. He had Jacobson's bill and he had the Governor's A. Had all the bills. Q. If there is only a difference of $1, how can you say then that it lacks $18 of being sufficient to embrace Jacobson's bills? A. There is only one dollar difference in the Governor's bills. Q. And Jacobson's is not included? A. No, sir. Only one dollar's difference, leaving Jacobson's bill out of the question entirely; one dollar's difference on the Governor's bills. Q. I will ask you if the total amount of Jacobson's bill and the amount of the Governor's bills was not the amount that Le paid in? A. Jacobson's bill was $18, and if you add that to the Gov- ernor's bill would make it $239.55. 368 Q. And he has turned in how much? A. $202.44, after deducting the rebate given the State on tho long distance bills. Q. How -do you know that? A. From the State warrants and from the treasurer's books. Q. He has simply turned in in the way that he says all the money that was due the company on Jacobson's telephone and the Governor's telephones less one dollar? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) , You do say that he turned in, or Dougherty's books show that he has turned in sufficient amount of money to balance? A. Yes, sir; with the exception of the $1. Q. You have examined the treasurer's books, and you find from them and the amount of money collected from the treasurer and turned in, just lacks $1 of balancing? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that does not include Jacobson's bill? A. Yes, sir. Q. And shows that Jacobson's bills have been paid for some other way? A. That is it; yes, sir. Q. How it has been paid, though, you don't know? A. No, sir. Q. It is meant here, though, to get it into these figures? A. Yes, sir. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Means Committee ON Wednesday, March 18, 1903 INDEX. HON. T. C. MONROE. HON. FRANK HILL. LOUIS ALTHEIMER, Recalled. JOHN WILLIE. CHARLES WATKINS. H. W. DOUGHERTY. 371 Testimony taken before the Ways and Means Committee on the 18th day of March, 1903. HON. T. C. MONROE, being recalled, testified as follows, touch- ing the convict farm: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Colonel Monroe, you are the State Auditor? A. Yes, sir. Q. You have been State Auditor for over two years? A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you remember the offer of the Altheimer and the Beak- ley places and others to the board for a convict farm? A. Yes, sir. Q. At what price was the Altheimer place offered? A. $87,500 was the only figure I ever heard; the lowest one I ever heard. Q. Do you remember the last time the purchase of that farm was ever discussed in a board meeting; I mean the board's voting upon it; I want to know whether you remember the time or not? A. Yes, sir; we voted upon it, the board did, but I don't remember ever having it up after that in board meeting. Q. Do you remember now as a fact that the board voted against its purchase? A. Yes. sir. Q. Do you remember who moved the acceptance of the Altheimer place? A. My recollection is that Governor Davis moved the accep- tance of the proposition. Q. What proposition was it that he moved the acceptance of? A. The $87,500. Q. And that was voted down? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did ever Governor Davis or anybody else ever give you any intimation or any understanding at all that it ever had been offered to the board for $75,000 that Altheimer place? Or that $75,000 would buy that Altheimer place? A. No, sir. Q. You have never heard of that? A. No, sir. Q. When did you hear, the first time, if at all, that Mr. Althei- mer had claimed to have authorized Governor Davis to sell it to the board for $75,000? -- 372 A. I don't know that I ever heard of it in any boiard meet- ing. I heard it afterwards, perhaps, but I don't remember. That was after we had voted upon it, though. Q. Do you recollect whether or not Governor Davis at that time, or when he moved to accept the Altheimer proposition and our having voted upon it, before the vote was taken, make any statements about Mr. Altheimer, what he would accept and what he had done A. Well, I can't make a statement as to it, Colonel Murphy. There was considerable talk there at the time, but I can't say as to just any particular meeting of the board Q. Well, do you recollect whether Mr. Davis called Mr. Althei- mer before the board and asked him whether he would take less than $87,500 for that place? A. Yes, sir. Mr. Altheimer was called in. Q. Who called him in, Colonel? A. The Governor. Q. And do you remember whether he was asked if he could take less than $87,500. A. Yes, sir; Governor Davis asked the question. Q. Tell the committee what response Mr. Altheimer made? A. Mr. Altheimer, as well as I remember, said that he con- sidered that the lowest price that he could take for the farm; that he regarded it as a place for an ideal convict farm just in keeping with what the Governor had stated in recommending it to the board I believe, before the motion was made to accept the proposition. Q. How long was that before the vote was taken on the motion to accept the Altheimer proposition? A. It was not very long. Q. Give us some idea, Colonel; was it the same meeting: the same day or same hour, or when? A. This was at the same board meeting, the same hour the meeting was held perhaps an hour or an hour and a half or two- hours. Q. What occurred when the board refused to accept the $87,500 proposition; do you remember? A. The Governor, after the vote was taken, went out of the room; out into the ante-room,, where I saw Mr. Altheimer after- wards, when the meeting adjourned. 373 Q. Well, was there anything in the way of a disturbance there in the board meeting in consequence of the action of the board in its vote on that motion? A. I don't know about a disturbance. I know the Governor reproved the board in rather severe terms; said that the board had no respect for him, and said a good deal of hard things; I don't remember all that he did say now, Colonel, and I think he was disturbed right smart and showed some anger; said the board had no respect for him, or a majority of it. Q. Did that board ever have any other proposition to purchase that farm except the $87,500? A. No, sir; none that I ever knew anything about. Q. Wouldn't you have known about it if there had of been? A. I think I would; yes, sir. Q. Did the Governor ever tell you, or tell anybody in your presence, that he was authorized to sell it to the board at $75,000; did he or not? A. No, sir. Q. Now, I want you to tell us what it was you started to say a moment ago; you started to say something about the. Gov- ernor, or you have testified something about the Governor having called you in not in a board meeting and asking you if he would drain that farm with tiling if you would vote to buy it, and if you told him that you would not, and then you went on to say that he said something to you that you did not repeat; now I want you to repeat anything else that he said, if he said anything else on. that occasion? A. I was called in to Governor Davis' office, if I remember correctly perhaps he called me up there, or I may have happened to be up there on some other business, but it is my recollection that he called me up there, and he wanted to know if I would join him in the purchase of the Altheimer farm if he would promise to drain the place by his obligating to drain the place obligating himself to drain the place and to supply it with water, and I told him that I had regarded the Altheimer place as no place for a convict farm, and I had the same objections to it as I had had all the time. As soon as I told the Governor that he became angry and said one or two very hard things, and said he would convene the legislature for the purpose of buying a farm and that the responsibility of it would rest upon me. Well, he was so angry and said so many very hard things to me that I just got up 374 and walked out of his office, and I told him he would have f o call the legislature then; that I could not afford to vote against my judgment for that place; that I did not think it was suitable for a convict farm. Q. (By Governor Davis) Did any other member of the board vote to purchase that place at that price, Mr. Monroe? A. Yes, sir; one besides yourself. Q. Who was it? A. Mr. Crockett. Q. I want to ask you you said that I said that I asked you if I would agree to drain the place now, to refresh your memory, don't you know that your objections to that place was because it was flat and no drainage there A. Yes, sir. Q. And that the water was bad? A. I said there was no water there, 'or understood there was no water there except surface water. Q. Now, to refresh your memory, let me ask you if this is not the matter I spoke to you about that if Mr. Altheimer could convince you that the place could be drained and would drain it and would furnish it with water, if you would vote for that place? A. No, sir; Colonel Altheimer's name wasn't mentioned. You asked me if you would agree to drain that place or assume the responsibility of draining it, would I vote for it. Q. I wasn't going to have it drained individually? A. Yes, sir; you talked like it; you asked me if you would obligate yourself to drain it, if I would vote for it; I didn't know who else you meant. Q. Didn't you understand that I wouldn't have it done, but that if Mr. Altheimer would have it done Mr. Altheimer would do it? A. Mr. Altheimer's name wasn't mentioned. Q. I was making a statement as though I owned the farm? A. Yes, sir. FRANK HILL, on cath, being by the Chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Did you hold any State office up to last October in this State? A. I was Commissioner of Mines, Manufactures and Agri- culture. 375 Q. Do you remember a time when several propositions were first made to sell the Penitentiary Board a farm for a convict farm? A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. Do you remember in what year the first propositions were made to the board after it was organized with yourself, Governor Davis, Colonel Monroe and Mr. Crockett and myself as members in what year the first propositions were made? A. I can't be positive about the year, but it was made very soon after the organization of the board with that membership. Q. Do you remember any particular ones who made prop- ositions to sell to the board do you remember Beakley and Altheimer and any others? A. Yes, sir; the Redleaf, and the Taylor Brothers I think had a proposition in, and I think there were some others; I can't recollect just who at present. Q. Well, after we had inspected the farms, was the con- sideration of all of them limited to any two in particular or not? A. Yes, sir; on motion the consideration of the farms was limited to the Beakley and the Altheimer farms. Q. Who made that motion? A. Governor Davis made the motion. Q. Well, at the next meeting of the board after that date, was there not a lot of witnesses brought up from about England? A. I think it was at the next meeting. Q. Who called them and examined them before the board? A. They were examined probably by Governor Davis. I pre- sume so; he did the questioning. Q. Do you know who solicited their presence there? A. My understanding was that Governor Davis solicited their presence there. Q. On what about what particular farm was their testimony directed to? A. The Beakley farm. Q. To show it up how? A. To show that it was unfit for a convict farm; showing that it was low and wet and generally unsuited for a convict farm. Q. Well, then, after that evidence was heard, did the board adjourn. After this evidence was brought in and heard by tie board, and after the board had voted not to consider any other propositions for the sale of other farms, for it to adjourn for a month? A. My recollection is that on motion it may have been oy consent the matter was postponed for thirty days; I think it was on motion. Q. Well, do you recollect the next meeting somewhere trom thirty-one to forty days after the adjournment when a proposition was made to the board to accept the Altheimer offer or proposition? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who made that motion? A. Governor Davis. Q. What was Altheimer's price; do you know? A. The price was $87,500. Q. Do you recollect what, if anything, Governor Davis said he had done with Altheimer bringing the price down to that sum, if you do tell it bringing the price down to that sum? A. My recollection is and from the remarks of Governor Davis in this connection, that the price made by Mr. Altheimer was something a little over $90,000. I am not certain of the figures, it was perhaps $92,t)00; and that he had insisted at it being put at a lower figure; and said that he had hammered him down to the lowest figure he could get and that was as T remember $87,500. Q. Do you recollect if his saying, prior to making the motion to accept the Altheimer proposition, that he would try and see if he could beat him down any further, and called him and talked with him about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Tell the committee just what he said, please, about that? A. He suggested I can't remember the exact language but suggested that he would make an effort to have Mr. Altheimer take less than $87,500 less than that proposition. Q. Do you recollect whether he called Mr. Altheimer in or not at the time? A. Well, Mr. Altheimer came in the room at that time. Q. Do you recollect what questions he was asked and what Altheimer responded? A. I think the Governor asked the questions but at all events the question was whether Mr. Altheimer would take less than the figures contained in the proposition. Q. What figures? A. $87,500. 377 Q. Well, proceed? A. And his reply was that he could not accept any less. Q. Why did he say that he could not, if you remember? A. I don't remember; he made some excuse indicating that he could not, but 1 don't just remember what it -was. Q. How long was that until the Governor made the motion to accept the Altheimer proposition? A. As I recall it was almost immediately after Mr. Altheimer went out of the office, or very soon after. Q. Was the motion voted down or not? A. It was voted down. Q. Was the question of purchasing that farm ever brought before the board in any board meeting after that time? A. No, sir. Q. Were you ever told by Governor Davis, Mr. Altheimer or anyone else, until the meeting of this General Assembly, "that Altheimer had offered the Governor to sell that place to the board for $75,000, or who told you that he would take $75,000 for it? A. Not until after the legislature convened. Q. What legislature? A. This legislature. Q. Now sort of put your memory to work and see if you can give us something approximate of the time when that motion to purchase the Altheimer farm was voted down that is to accept Altheimer's proposition? A. It was at the meeting I can't remember the date-^but the meeting at which Mr. Altheimer was present and was asked if he could take less than the $87,500 the proposition price of $87,500. Q. Do you remember 'whether it was in the following winter, 1901, can you approximate, or do you know when it was with refer- ence to Mr. Hogins qualifying as Superintendent was it after Mr. Hogins qualified as Superintendent of the Penitentiary? A. I can't say about that, but it must have been near that. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Mr. Hill, what time did you go out of office? A. At the end of October, 1902. Q. You stated a while ago that there was never any other proposition made on the Altheimer place except that of $87,500? A. In the board, I said. -378 Q. I mean before the board; I mean presented to the board, that was a formal written proposition to sell for $87,500, now you don't know what there might have been after you went out of office? A. No. sir. Q. Then you are not certain as to any other proposition, or whether there was any other proposition made to the board or not? A. No, sir; I am only speaking about the time when I was a member of the board. Q. Do you know how that proposition came before the board; do you know how Altheimer's proposition for the sale of that farm was brought in before the board? A. It came in I presume in the same way the others did it was presented to the Secretary. % Q. In writing? A. I think so. Q. Not stated orally? A. In writing is my understanding. Q. Do you know who presented it to the Secretary? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know that Governor Davis had presented it? A. No, sir. All I know is what the Governor stated there in the board meeting. Q. Was this other farm purchased before you went out of office, or after? A. After. Q. Well, then you don't know whether any proposition ever came in there from Altheimer for the sale of his farm after you went out of office or not, or before the purchase of this Cummins place or not? A. No, sir. LOUIS ALTHEIMER, being recalled, testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Altheimer, to whom did you rent your farm, known as the Hay ward place, last year? A. Last year? Q. Yes, sir? A. Three years ago I rented it to Willie and Willie Willie Brothers, and that was during the first year and then his cousin bought one of the brothers out Mr. Walker bought one of the Wil- 379 lies out and then Walker and Willie had it then the succeeding year. Q. What Walker and what Willie? A. I don't know Walker's first name. Q. What was Willie's first name? A. Mr. Willie's first name was John, but I don't know Mr. Walker's name. Q. To whom did you rent it last year; that was the ques- tion I asked you? A. Last year? I worked it in partnership with Mr. Lee Wil- lie; my son Maurice and Mr. Lee Willie and myself were in a firm called Altheimer & Willie, and we are doing the same thing this year. Q. Now, I understood you to state last night that that prop- erty rented last year for $9,000; now did you so state or not? A. I stated if we could have gathered all our crops we would have, if we could have gotten the proceeds of all the cotton that that was left in the field I said if we could have gathered all our crop. Q. Well, Mr. Altheimer, just please answer the question; did you or not state last night that you rented that place last year for $9,000. Got $9,000 for rents out of it? A. I don't know. Q. You did not rent it last year? A. I did not say that. Q. Well, did you or not rent it last year? A. I did not. Q. You ran it in partnership with Mr. Willie, and kept the store there? A. Yes, sir; my son, Maurice, Mr. Willie and myself ran it last year under the name and style of Altheimer & Willie. Q. You ran the store and farmed too, didn't you? A. Yes, sir; we did. Q. What is that place assessed at taxes? A. I don't know. Q. Did you say last night that you did not offer to sell that place to Mr. Willie? A. I said that. Q. Well, you did offer to sell him a part of the place that was in cultivation, didn't you? A. I never did. 380 -^ Q. Did you not offer to sell him any of it? A. I never did. Q. Neither one of the Willies? A. Never did. Q. Did you or not tell Mr. Willie that you would sell him that place for $30,000, provided that if you succeeded in selling it to the State at any time he was to deed it back to you for a bonus of $5,000, and thef interest on his money? A. I did not. Q. Did your son make that offer? A. What my son did I don't know. Q. If he did make it, did he have your authority? A. He consulted with me about it. Q. Yes, sir, but that is not answering my question; I asked you if he did do it did he have the authority to miake the offer? A. Not with my consent. Q. Well, is the title in him or in you? A. Well, it is in me and him. Q. Jointly? A. Yes, sir. Q. You know nothing then of his having made an offer to Willie to sell that part of the farm that was in cultivation, or two thousand acres or more of it for $30,000? A. My son spoke to me said that he had a talk with one of the Mr. Willies, or several talks with Mr. Willie; that is what my son told me. Q. I asked you if you know that that was a fact, or if you had any knowledge about whether he ever offered, or if there was ever an offer made to Mr. Willie to sell him about two thousand acres of that farm that was in cultivation, at $30,000? A. I don't know anything about it except what my son told me. Q. The farm you say that Governor Davis expressed himself as pleased with, that was after you had gone over it A. Yes, sir; he stated that he was very much pleased or *ery much impressed with the property, its location, soil, etc. Q. About what time in the day was it that he said that? A. That was a short time before we took the late afternoon train for Little Rock. Q. About what time was that? A. Between 5 and 6 o'clock in the evening. _ 381 Q. What time did the party, including Governor Davis, get down there that day? A. Got to Sherrill, I would say, a little after 9 o'clock a few minutes after 9 o'clock. Q. You went from there with horses? A. Yes, sir. Q. You went from there where? A. We went from there to the upper part of Hayward, what is named Porto Rico. Q. And there you took dinner? A. Yes, sir; I gave them a fine spread. Q. Well, how long were you at that spread? A. Well, I presume for about three-quarters of an hour. Q. Now how far is the place Porto Rico from the station, Hayward ? A. It is from Porto Rico to Hayward two and three-quarter miles. Q. After you got dinner you went where? A. Went from Porto Rico to Hayward; it is about a mile up to the station; it is two and three-qujarter miles up to Hay- ward station Q. And you staid at the house there at Porto Rico how long? A. About three-quarters of an hour, Colonel. Q. Where did you go from there to the station? A. No, we all got our horses we had some good horses and we rode over the Porto Rico farm and over Bell farm, and we rode through a deadening for about a mile and then we came to the northeast corner of the Hayward field and rode out into the light and pulled our horses up and looked over the plantation that part of it and we were in the saddle several hours, and then we came down to Hayward proper to Mr. W T alker's, where we took a lunch or had a dinner, or whatever you might call it, at his house. Mr. Walker took part of the committee to his house and they were entertained royally again. Q. What did you do when you got to Hayward proper? What time of the day was it then? A. I think about 3 o'clock. Q. Where did you go from Hayward? A. From Hayward, we waited there for the afternoon train, which we took and came to Little Rock at once. 382 Q. You say that the Governor expressed himself as well pleased with that place; where was that? A. It was out there at the upper end of the platform. Q. At Hay ward? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say there is 6,040 acres of land there? A. Yes, sir. Q. What time was it when they were down there? A. I don't remember exactly the time, but cotton was about shoulder high. Q. Do you know that it was in the summer time? A. Yes, sir; it was in the summer time. Q. Mr. Altheimer, do you know a land agency by the name of W. M. Price & Co., of Stuttgart? A. I do. Q. Did you not have that place in their hands for sale at $30,000? A. I did not. Q. Was it not in their hands for sale placed in their hands for sale either at $30,000 or $35,000? A. About a year or two prior to that time Mr. Price the senior member of that firm brought a party down there from Kansas City to buy Hayward, and we priced that part of Hay- ward, not being all of it, or rather he wanted us to take Kansas City property for it, and I thought I would rather keep Hayward than take Kansas City property worth $60,000 for it. I refused to trade with him. Q. That does not answer my question, Mr. Altheimer? A. Well, put it again. Q. I asked you if that property that you offered to the State, the Hayward farm, was not placed in the hands of Price & Son, of Stuttgart, for sale at either $30,000 or $35,000? A. I don't remember the price, but it was ,not all of the 6,040 acre tract. Q. You put in their hands only a part of it? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much? A. I don't remember how much. Q. Whatever property you did put in Price's hands is that property which lies right along the railroad? A. It did. 383 Q. How much of that place lies on the side of the railroad, right side as you go down from here to Pine Bluff, or Altheimer town; how much of it? A. I don't remember. Q. Can't you give us some idea? A. I cannot. Q. Does the railroad run through the center of the place or not? A. It splits the tract open, but the principal part of the woodland and the open land is on the left-hand side of the road going down towards Altheimer. Q. Who owns that road? A. The Cotton Belt. Q. That is the St. Louis Southwestern Company? A. Yes, sir. Q. You don't own the railroad; it just goes through your farm? A. No, sir, I don't. I am a sort of a daddy of that road though; I kind of called it into life. Well, Mr. Altheimer, we have got along very pleasantly to-night Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Altheimer, I don't care to ask you any particular question, but I just want to ask you this did you not last night state that you had told me that you would sell that farm to the State or to the board for $75,000? A. I didn't tell you that I can't say that that is what I stated last night, though I remember I did tell you (Here the witness turns and speaks to Colonel Murphy) Colonel Murphy, if you ever wanted Hay ward you knew where to find it. JOHN WILLIE, on oath, being first duly sworn by .the Chair- man, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Where do you reside, Mr. Willie? A. I am living on the Greenback plantation. My post office is Swan Lake. Q.' Did you ever live on the Altheimer place down here in Jefferson County, known as the Hay ward place? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did Mr. Altheimer very shortly before or about the time he was making an effort to sell that place to the State or to the Penitentiary Board for a convict farm, offer you the place or any part of it at any price? A. Why his son, Mr. Maurice Altheimer, offered me the place in December for a price. He was down there sometime in the summer Q. Just state to the committee what the offer was? A. Why he came out there to the place and wanted to sell it to me, that was that portion of the place that we had leased, that was known as the Hayward property. His contract covered 2,600 acres; that was the Hayward property as we knew it. And known then as I know it now; but I offered them first $25,000 for the place, and they wanted $35,000, and he asked me the question if I would not give as much as $30,000 for the prop- erty, and I told him I would not, but that I would raise my offer up to $27,500 give him $5,000 cash and the balance in six equal payments with 6 per cent interest, and that the land was to measure out 2,600 acres or more clear of the railroad right of way and including a little three-corner piece of property down the rail- road that he had bought from the Holmes tract, and they did not accept it. Q. Well, new did he or not go below the $35.000? A. Well, he did not positively ask me he asked me if I would accept it at that. Q. Give the conversation. A. If I would give $30,000, and he said, I think I can get my father to agree to take that if you will say you will give $30,000, and I told I wouldn't give $30,000, but that I would give $27,500; and so it stood open until the next morning about 10:40 o'clock when the train gets into Pine Bluff; he said he wanted to consider it, and he said he would let me know the next morn- ing whether they would accept it or not. Q. Well, now in connection with that in case you would give $30,000 for the place, was there anything said about a payment or a re-deeding of the property in the event that they succeeded in selling the place to the State? A. They wanted me to agree to let them have the property back for a price in the event that they might for a price that we might agree upon. They wanted me to agree to Jet them have the place back at any time in the next two years in case they made a sale to the State, and I told them I could not entertain that at all; that if I bought the property that I wanted it for myself, and he said he would want that property back if in case he sold the 385 whole thing to the State, and I told him I would have to let him know the next morning. Q. Do you know anything about the details of the arrange- ments of Mr. Altheimer, or Messrs. Altheimers, had on hand to sell their property to the State; do you know whether they had agencies or how they expected to do it through whom? A. Well, I can't say as to whom, but before they made me this offer I can only state the conversation I really can't say what conversation took place between Altheimer and his son but this conversation was that in case he got his father to agree to take $27,500 that I would agree to let them have the property back at any time before the expiration of two years they would pay me back the purchase money of course and what I had expended for improvements, with 10 per cent interest, and $5,000 in addition. Q. Well, do you know now I want to get right at the matter did you know from them who they depended on to sell that farm anybody in connection with the board or that had any influence with them, or to enable them to make the sale; now if you know, just tell it if you know, Mr. Willie? A. Well, this is the only thing I know: I asked him why he wanted me to make such a proposition as that, and he says, why in case we let me see how that was Q. (By Governor Davis) Who was that talking? A. Mr. Maurice Altheimer and myself. Q. Was I present? A. No, sir. Is this Governor Davis? Q. Yes, sir. A. No, sir. I never met you in my life before. But his answer to me about the question I asked him, he says that if we if Governor Davis he told me that if he is elected and another party is elected favorable to the place why we can sell the place, was the words that he used. Q. (By Colonel Murphy, continuing) Were you present when Governor Davis and other members of the board, in company with Mr. Altheimer or the Messrs. Altheimers. were down there for the purpose of looking over that place? A. No, sir; I was not. I was in Hot Springs at the time Mr. Walker was there. . Q. What is Mr. Walker's initials? A. F. H. Walker. Testimony 13. 386 Q. So you did not hear any conversation that occurred there? A. No, sir; I wasn't there at all. The gentlemen were down there in my absence, and part of them taken dinner there at Mr. Walker's and suppose some of the parties taken dinner over at my house. Q. Now you ceased to occupy and reside and occupy the Altheimer place when? A. Why I left there last December 20, I think it was, a year ago it was in 1901, December. I left there, but the possession of the place was not delivered until January 1, 1302. Q. Did you ever live on the Cummins place that we bought? A. Yes, sir; I worked the Cummins place, my brother and I, for five years. Q. What is the comparative worths between those two places per acre? (Chairman rules that question is irrelevant.) Q. Is that Altheimer place a dry place or is it a low wet place ? A. Weil, the major part of the place is wet. Q. Does the surface water or not stand on it when the rainy season conies? A,. Yes. sir; stands on it. Q. Does it not stand in between the cotton rows even after cotton is planted when rains come? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you gather out the crops that are raised on it in the fall or winter after the rainy season sets in without getting in the water? A. No, sir; not very well any time of the year when there is very much rain; it is very wet. There is a portion of -the place though that is sandy and dry. Q. How much of it is there in that fix? A. Why the land there is about we estimated about 700 acres of the 1,600 acres, was our estimate of it when 1 was on the place. Q. Which was dry? A. Yes. sir; comparatively dry. Q. How is that in the woods in the timber is that low and wet or is it high and dry? A. The majority of it is very low very wet; hickory flats. There is some, however, in ridges, but the larger part, the major 387 part of it is wet; that is in the woods. That was included in this 2,600 acres that we had under contract, you understand. Q. Well, how about the other, that part outside of the 2,600 acres? A. Well, as well as I know about the other, the majority of it is wet, but I don't know that very well. Q. That is the best part of the farm, the most productive and fertile the most valuable, comparatively, as to that that was embraced in the other tract? A. I considered the part they offered to me better than the other as well as I know of the other property. CHARLES WATKINS, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You reside where, Mr. Watkins? A. My home at present is Little Rock mostly; but my home is at Mt. Ida, Ark, Q. Do you know Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember while he was Attorney General, of work- ing in his office? A. Yes, sir, I worked there from November, 1899, to Jan- uary, 1901. Q. You say you were in Governor Davis' office while he was Attorney General in November of what year? A. 1899, I think. Q. How long did you remain there? A. Well, I was there most of the time until January, 1901. Q. In what capacity? A. Well, I was stenographer there in the office. Q. Did you draw your money monthly while you were there? A. No, sir; not every month; I did not have any regular time to draw it at all; whenever I would need some money I would go draw it. if it was coming to me. Q. Who made out- the vouchers to you? A. Mr. Jacobson. Q. Who was Mr. Jacobson? A. He was the Assistant Attorney General at that time; I think they were signed by the Governor through Mr. Jacobson. Q. All of them? A. I think so; most of them, I don't remember just whether all of them were or not. 388 Q. Did Governor Davis sign any of them? A. I don't remember, it has been so long ago. Q. I show you a voucher for services in that office as stenog- rapher, it seems to have been paid the 23d of November, 1899, for $20; did you get that voucher? A. I don't remember; I suppose I did though. I went to work there. Q. And get a warrant on the Treasurer? A. If I got the voucher I got the other. Q. Do you remember who signed it? A. Who signed the voucher? Q. The warrant; did the Auditor sign it? A. I presume so, or his deputy. Q. If I mistake not, on December 21, 1899, you obtained another voucher on the Auditor for $25; is that correct? A. Why, I don't know just exactly the date; as I stated when- ever 1 needed the money and it was due me, I would go ask for it and get it. Q. You would see the vouchers, would you not? A. I don't know whether I would or not see them so as to know them again. Q. I see you obtained another voucher on the 27th of Jan- uary, 1.900, for $40 Governor Davis says: I will admit that all of those vouchers were all drawn and that he got the money on the vouchers. I will admit that he got a voucher for every cent that they say he got, and that he got the money on it, and I think they show about right as to the amount. I admit that Mr. Watkins was the stenographer in my office at the time and that he got the vouchers claimed by the Attorney General, and he got the money oil them. Q. (By ) Will it be admitted that these payments were made to him as services as stenographer A. (By Governor Davis) Yes, sir. Q. And that you signed the vouchers for the warrants for the services as stenographer A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy, continuing) What was the character of work you did in that office as stenographer? A. (By Mr. Walkins, continuing) Most of my work was in brief work writing briefs. 389 Governor Davis And I further admit that the warrants were paid out of the contingent fund of the Attorney General. Q. Now you say that most of this work was brief work? A. Yes,, sir. Q. As stenographer? A. Yes, air. Q. Do you remember any particular brief you worked on as stenographer? A. Why I know I worked writing on nearly every brief that was written there during the time that I was there. Q. Who dictated them? A. Generally Mr. Jacobson. Q. Who was Mr. Jacobson? A. He was Assistant Attorney General at the time. He assisted Governor Davis in the office then. Q. Was he the clerk in the office? A. Well, I don't know, the statute specifies it as clerk or assistant to the Attorney General. Q. Is it not a fact that nearly all of your work was devoted to writing and getting out campaign literature for the Governor? A. No, sir. Q. When he was Attorney General? A. No, sir. Q. When did he commence his campaign for Governor? A. I don't remember. Q. Was it in the summer of 1899? A. I don't remember just when it was it has been so long ago. Q. Now can you tell us the number of briefs in which you performed stenographic work? A. No, sir; I never kept any exact account of them at all. Q. Would you leave the office as soon as you got through with a brief the Attorney General's office, as soon as you got through writing a brief? A. No, sir; worked there regular all the time. Q. What work were you at when you were not working on briefs? A. I had a great many letters quite a heavy correspondence to carry on, and I answered them. Q. About what? A. About official duties in the office a great deal of work in that way. 390 Q. And about law suits pending in the Supreme Court? A. Some of them; I can't say just what they were all about. Q. Well, was this work that you got these vouchers for brief work? A. I got the vouchers for the work I did there in the office. Q. What proportion of that work that you did there in the office for which you were paid for in these vouchers, was brief work? A. A great deal of it. Q. Well, that is so indefinite, Mr. Watkins, was it a half of it or a third or a fourth or all of it? A. It was not all brief work; part of it was letters and copying. Q. The briefs were all cases in the Supreme Court, were they not? A. Yes, sir. Q. And all of the briefs that you worked on were briefs that were filed from between November, 1899, and January, 1901? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, if these briefs were to go in cases before the Supreme Court, would not they be printed these briefs that you say you did work on as stenographer? A. I suppose so. Q. You did not work there as a typewriter? A. What do you mean? Q. In his office as a typewriter? A. Well, I was the stenographer there. Q. Can you give the committee any statement of the num- ber of pages of brief work that you did? A. As stenographer while in the office, no, sir. 1 have no idea of the number of pages; I kept no account of the briefs or the number of pages. The number of pages and amount of work in the different briefs would vary. Q. How much mail matter did you send out campaign mat- ter literature, while you were there in that office? A. l don't know how much, but I did some of it, of course. Q. Now don't you know that it is a fact that you sent out that campaign literature, and that was what required most of your time and assistance? A. No, sir; I don't think it was, because they had some young ladies there who were attending to that. Q. Who were they? 391 A. He had one of them there a great deal of the time, and a Mrs. , I don't remember her name another lady she is out at the Insane Asylum one of them is out there. Q. Well, I see here that you got a warrant of voucher and a warrant on a voucher on the 16th day of June, 1900 A. That was the time about when Miss Grace Bloom and Miss Carter worked there in the office as stenographers Q. And at that same time you were getting pay for the same did you get paid for stenographic work then, too? A. I don't know whether I was there at that time or not. I think they were there part of the time, and I think they wene there in June. Q. They were there in June? A. I don't remember whether they were there in June or not, but I think they were there. I was there part of the time, but I don't just recollect the dates. Q. What were they doing there? A. Working. Q. Doing what what sort of work? A. They were employed there in getting out campaign work. Q. What sort of work? A. Campaign work. Q. They were in there while you were there part of the time then? A. Ves A sir. Q. What were they doing, if you know? A. I can't say just exactly what they did, because I was busy with my work most of the time. Q. What work were you busy at while they were there? A. I was getting up all sorts of work and doing ail the brief work and writing letters pertaining to the office. Q. Were they doing any brief work while you were there? A. No, sir; they didn't do any brief work. Q. You say they were not doing any of the brief work? A. No, sir; I was doing the brief work. Q. Do you know of any sort of work that they did? A. I don't know definitely. Q. Did they send out campaign literature? A. I presume they did send out campaign literature. Q. Don't you know? A. I do not. 392 Q. Is it not a fact that they had great big boxes there just chuck full and was mailing it out constantly? A. I don't think they did. Q. You know they had big dry goods boxes full of it there? A. I understood that they were sending out that campaign stuff, but I don't know definitely what they did. Q. You understood it? A. Yes,, sir. Q. Well, you were in the office all the time A. Part of the time I wasn't there. Q. You were there in June? A. I don't know whether I was or not, but I am inclined to think I was. If I drew a voucher for the month of June then I was there in June. This has been three years ago almost, and I can't remember every day that I was in the city. It has been so long ago. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Do you know whether you were there in Jun'e, 1901? A. I don't know; I will have to think a while about that. If I can think a minute Q. Well, that is what you are here for to think. (An objection being raised to the question of going into the affairs of the Attorney General's office, the Chair upholds the objections, to which ruling of the Chair General Murphy excepts and asks that his exceptions be noted of record in order that the same may be brought to the attention of the House.) Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Have you got the vouchers for the World's Fair Fund? A. No, sir; 1 have not. Q. Who has? A. I presume the Auditor has; he is the man who keeps them. Q. Have you got the books? Governor Davis objects to the foregoing evidence in relation to the expenditures on vouchers relating to the World's Fair Fund, and says: I will admit that I drew from my contingent fund for four trips to St. Louis in regard to the World's Fair. Q. (Colonel Murphy, continuing) Mr. Watkins, where are tbe books relating to the St. Lrouis Imposition A. Up there in my office. 393 Q. Can anybody see them? A. They are up there; I will show them to you If you come up there. Q. We would like to see the books? A. I can't show them to you now, they are up in the office. Q. But we can see them by coming up there? A. Yes, sir, anybody can come up there and see them; I will be there all day tomorrow. You can come in there any time tomorrow and see them. Q. (By Governor Davis) Was there ever a voucher paid you out of the World's Fair Fund? A. No, sir. Governor Davis here hands to Chairman Merriman a check drawn for $5 and paid on his private telephone at his house, and endorsed by Mr. Dougherty. MR. H. W. DOUGHERTY, being recalled, testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Dougherty, I want you to identify those two months that you say were paid for in that way, where the private telephone bills and long-distance bills were paid in one voucher the private telephone bills of Governor Davis and Mr. Jacobson. You were asked by Governor Davis to examine the books. A. Well, I will say that I have examined the books and the vouchers numbered 424, also 599, 958 and 1628, and the amounts therein. Voucher No. 424 is for $22.15. Q. The long distance bill was how much? A. On February 11, I find credited, long distance $18.15 Davis' residence 2.00 Jacobson's residence 2.00 Making a total of $22.15 That exactly balances with the voucher. Voucher No. 599 is drawn for $28.15, and is dated March 5, 1902. Long distance $23.15 Governor Davis, auxiliary 1.00 Davis' residence 2.00 Jacobson's residence 2.00 Making a total of $28.15 394 Which balances exactly with the amount of the voucher drawn for that amount on that same date. And the amount credited on the books exactly balance. Voucher No. 958 was drawn on April 10, and is for $50.65. On April 10, I find credited on the books $45.65 toll. $1.90 Davis; $1.35 Davis' residence, and $1.75 Jacobson's residence, which makes exactly $50.65, being the amount for which the warrant was drawn on the same date. Q. Voucher was drawn on the Auditor for that amount? A. Yes, sir. Q. On which you obtained the money from the Treasurer? A. Yes, sir. No. 1628, dated June 12, for $16.55: Toll $11.55 Office 1.00 Davis 2.00 Jacobson . 2.00 Making a total of $16.55 For which a voucher was drawn 'on that day. And I think the books show that beyond a question; the voucher and the books balance and that the two residence telephones were paid out of the contingent fund. Q. Then it is true that that for those two months these vouch- ers paid the long distance telephone messages and the private tele- phone of the Governor and Jacobson's telephone they were all embraced in the one voucher? A. Yes, sir; from the records I find on the books Q. They exactly correspond with the several vouchers and they balance exactly? A. Yes., sir. Q. (By Governor Davis) You say you collected about nine months? A. Yes, sir. Q. That made the rent of the telephone at my residence $18, that is what it would be, wouldn't it, nine months at $2 a month? A. Yes, sir. Q. See if you collected that check from me is not that your signature on the back of it? A. Yes, sir; it is my signature on the back, but that is no reason that I collected it. 395 Q. Were you not the collector? A.. Yes, sir; I was the chief collector for the company Q. Well, then, did you not collect the amount of that check collect that check? A. I don't know whether I did or not. Q. Why don't you know. A. If you will allow me, I will explain it. I told you that my official capacity with the company was as chief collector, and all checks that come in there all checks collected by any one of the collectors, are turned over to me", and I endorse them, and deposit them to the credit of the company in the bank. Q. Don't you know that you collected that check? A. I say I don't know whether I collected that check or not. I don't say that I did or did not. Q. Will you say that you did not collect it? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. This was given in November? A. Yes, sir- Q. You were working there then? A. Yes, sir. Reads check: "11-15-1901. Pay to the order of the S. W. T. & T. Co., $5, Five Dollars, to W. B. Worthen & Co., Little Rock, Ark. Jeff Davis." Endorsed S. W. T. & T. Co., by H. W. Dougherty, and the pay mark of W. B. Worthen & Co. on it, showing that it was paid December 6, 5th or 6th, 1902. Check seems to have been held out about a month. Q. Did you collect this check for $5? A. I said I did not know whether I did or not. Q. Didn't you tell me last night that you collected it? A. I don't remember that I did. Q. (Reads) "Pay to the order of the S. W. T. & T. Co., $4, and dated 5-3-1902; Four Dollars, to the Exchange National Bank, and signed Jeff Davis; and endorsed on the back, S. W. T. & T. Co., by W. H. Dougherty, and paid by the German National Bank May 17, 1902." Now did you get the money on this check or did the telephone company get it? A. No, sir; the telephone company got it. Q. Do you want to see this check any more? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well here it is, look at it. A. I just wanted to know if this is your signature? 396 Q. No, 'sir, it is not; tliat is Mr. Jacobson's signature. I don't think I ever signed a voucher or a check in my life since I have been in there. That is my name signed by Mr. Jacobson. Do you want to know if I wrote that? A. Yes, sir; that was what I Q. No, sir, I did not; Mr. Jacobson wrote my name there. That is not my signature; he wrote my name to it and the bank paid it. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Mr. Dougherty, can you refer to the voucher you got at the time that that $5 check bears date? A. Give me the date of the check and I can. (After making an examination.) I don't think that any voucher was paid on that. Q. I have no credit for that money there have I? A. I don't know about that. If one of the collectors brought it in, as I explained, because my name is on the back of it is no saying that I collected it. Q. The bank would not pay it unless you endorsed it, would they? A. I endorse all checks that come in there to the company and deposit them. Q. In the bank yourself? A. Yes, sir, I do. Q. You mean then that you have to endorse the checks so that you can get the money? A. I say that the company did, and this one may have been among the pile of checks that the collectors turned in, and I just endorsed the checks and turned them into the bank to the deposit of the company. I did not collect all the bills I had; I had four boys under me, and the boys went out and one of them may have collected it. Q. If you did not collect that, then how do you know that I did not pay the boys that collected it for my private telephone bills? A. I didn't Q. Yes, you did; you said that they were all paid in the amount on the face of the voucher. A. I don't remember Q. You stated last night or the night before that every one of those bills were paid in the face of the voucher; that is what you said, didn't you say that now? A. I don't remember making that statement. 397 Q. Your testimony will show? A. I don't remember making that statement. Q. I say that you did, though; you said that every month that you collected there that you collected for my private resi- dence telephone and for Jacobson's private residence telephone, and that the amount of them was in the face of the voucher charged up against the State; you said that, and you said that I never gave you a dollar in money except this $8 check, and then I pulled a $4 check on you, and you say you may have got that and here to-night is another check for $5, and you say you don't know whether you got that or not. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) If Governor Davis' private 'phone rent was covered by those vouchers that you took to the Auditor's office and drew a warrant for the full face of it/ then if it was paid by those checks it was paid twice, wasn't it? A. Those checks I don't quite understand your question. Q. If his private 'phone rent was paid in these vouchers that you got a warrant for covering the entire face of the voucher, and then it was paid by those checks, they were paid twice, were they not? A. If that check was for the same date as the voucher, they could have been. Q. You were collecting there for nine months, according to your testimony, and so in that time you collected $18 $2 a month now if you collected $18 by that warrant covering that private telephone rent in those vouchers and then collected $17 by those checks, then you collected his residence telephone rent twice? A. I did not say I collected them. Q. Well, it went into your hands? A. I did not say I collected $18 on his residence. Q. (By Governor Davis) You said you went there every month and collected? A. I said I collected every m'onth, and the books will show each month how I got it. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Well, if you only collected part of the telephone rent in those vouchers, and then collected $17 by those checks, then you have collected part of it twice, haven't you? A. 1 will state that I do not understand what you are driving at. Q. You have stated in your testimony that you have collected foi- Governor Davis' private residence telephone rent in those vouch' ers $2 a m'onth? 398 A. I did not say in every voucher. Q. Well, in some of them? A. I said to-night Q. Haven't you gone there about four months? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, that would be $8 then? A. Yes, sir. Q. I believe you stated last night that you collected one check for $8, and the rest you collected through a warrant out of the contingent fund? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now if there came into your hands checks for $17 the Governor's private telephone rent for that time was only $18 then you would have collected $1 less than his telephone rent would have been for that time, didn't you? A. No, sir; because those checks come into my hands is no reason that I collected the amounts from him. Q. Didn't the money come into your hands? A. When the collector turns in the money he turns in all the money that he has collected during the day Q. Well, they were turned over to you? A. Yes, sir Q. You knew it was collected? A. I see those checks there endorsed with my name. Q. You knew they were collected from Davis? A. I don't think so. Q. Now, if you put a bill into the collector's hands for col- lection of a claim, say for $100, he would have to return that night he would have to turn over to you for that bill that much cash or checks? A. His account would be credited up with what he paid in. Q. I want to ask you did you not know that these check? were from Davis? A. I did not look over each check; I only took the amount that would be turned in to me. Q. (By Governor Davis) Will you tell me that you did not receive each one of these checks right in your hands in my office? A. There is nothing to show it. Q. I just want to know I want to get at the truth now you are swearing on your oath. Do you swear on your oath that you 399 did not receive these checks individually from Mr. Jacobson in my office? A. No, sir; for that is a thing that I cannot swear to. That is something that there is no way of proving it. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did the person that collected the money on these checks at the bank have to endorse them to get that money? A. I endorsed them when I deposited them to the account of the company. Q. Did you go to the bank and get the money on these checks yourself? A. I deposited them to the account of the company. Q. You got the balance in the bank down there, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, did you have to endorse them when you deposited them to the credit of the company? A. Yes, sir; I just put them in there to the credit of the company. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. Dougherty, Governor Davis had a telephone at his residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. That $18 rented for $2 a month? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Mr. Jacobson had a telephone at his residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. That was $18 for nine months? A. Yes, sir. Q. Considering it true as Governor Davis shows that he paid for his telephone at his residence, then Mr. Jacobson's telephone rent of $18 came out of the contingent fund, or vice versa, there would have been $36 due for rent on the two telephones, then one or the other has been drawn for out of the contingent fund, is that not a fact? A. Shows very plainly for the four months that both were drawn out of the contingent fund. I am not just talking as to the $18, I can't say positively which one, but taking these four vouchers I think any impartial man can take them and see on those four months that it was drawn out of the contingent fund. Governor Davis here proceeds to read a letter addressed to him from Governor Lon Stephens, and over the objections of 400 General Murphy tlie Chair permits the letter to be read aloud to the committee. "February 26, 1903. "Hon. Jeff Davis. Little Rock, Ark.: "My Dear Governor It is not my intention to butt into your fight, nor do I care to be quoted, but it occurs to me that in connection -with the war being made upon you, to write you this brief note. You may use it if it is of any advantage to you, but it would not be best to mention my name in connection with it. "In Missouri the fuel of which so much is said now in the proceedings against you, is furnished the Governor of the State. The penitentiary, of course, uses a great amount of coal, and gets it generally at a reduced figure. All the coal necessary to keep the mansion warm and comfortable is furnished from the pen- itentiary supply, and I have never heard a single objection to the practice. "As to the Governor's contingent fund, in Missouri, as I under- stand, this fund is placed wholly in the hands of the Governor, and is to be used as he sees fit, at his discretion and option. He can draw the whole amount out as soon as it has been appro- priated and spend it as he sees proper, returning to the treas- ury only the amount unused. The criticisms of a few of your persecutors are, in my judgment, puerile and undignified in the extreme. They are seemingly born in insincerity and have been made to annoy you. They reflect no credit upon your accusers, nor to the State of Arkansas. If the Governor was out for what money he could make he would adopt other methods, as there are. thousands of ways open to him to advance his personal and financial interests. While many of the people seem to have griev- ances against you, I cannot but believe these contemptible charges above referred to, will damage your accuser more than yourself. I sympathize with you in your present troubles, and hope and believe that you will come out honorably and to the satisfaction of your many friends. "I shall remain here another week, and may spend a day in Little Rock en route home. Am greatly improved since I last saw you, though I am quite far from being strong. 401 "My term as Governor was as stormy as yours, but I find many of my bitterest enemies when in office are my defenders and friends. "Wishing you a successful administration in the end, I beg to remain, "Yours sincerely, "LON V. STEPHENS." Q. (By Judge Merriman) Was that letter written to you in response to a letter that you had written him? A. No, sir; it is a voluntary letter. Q. Do you mean to say that you never spoke to him about this matter? A. No, sir; I never did; and I want to state to you that I have thousands of such letters, and I will take pleasure In showing them to you. Colonel Murphy Bring them all in. Might as well read them all. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Heans Committee ON Thursday, March 19, 1903 INDEX. H. N. THOMASSON. O. C. L.UDWIG. 403 Proceedings before the Ways and Means Committee, and evi- dence adduced, on the 19th day of March, 1903. H. N. THOMASSON, on oath, being by the chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. Thomasson, what are your initials? A. H. N. Q. Where do you live? A. At Carlisle, Ark. Q. What is your business? A. My business, I am a farmer. Q. Has there been a subpoena served on you to appear before this committee, Mr. Thomasson? A. It was left at my home yesterday morning, but I don't know just what time of the day it was left there. Q. When did you get to Little Rock? A. I got here on the noon train. Q. Have you talked with Governor Davis since you got to Little Rock? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where? A. In his office. Q. What about? A. Why, he asked me some things; if I had heard Mr. Jett's testimony in regard to going out to the Territory. Q. Well, just tell the committee what that conversation was that you had with Governor Davis this afternoon? A. He asked me in regard to Mr. Jett's testimony, had I seen it, and I told him I had. And he asked me if that was right, and I told him that it was so far as it went. He asked me if I knew any- thing about the transportation and I told him I knew nothing only what he had told me. He said "I may have told you some statements that I ought not to have made, but if I told you that, I either lied or else I was drunk." Q. He said that to you this afternoon? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the statement he had made to you; tell all about the conversation that you had with Governor Davis, all that he told you? A. Well, he said "Do you know any thing about the transporta- tion " "I know what you told me, Governor. I know what you told me over the telephone/' He called me up on Saturday evening over 406 the telephone at Carlisle, and said "I am ready to start tomorrow. Sunday, and I want you to come up and bring my dogs," and I said, "Governor, my wife is sick, and I don't expect I can come," and he said, "You must come on and go if you can; I don't want to go with- out you," and I said I could not go if the transportation was going to cost me $15, $20 or $25, "I haven't got the money to spare if it is going to cost me $15 or $25, that I did not have the money to spare;" and he said, "Come on, your transportation is not going to cost you anything; I don't want to go without you," he said. Q. Did the Governor say that he told you that this afternoon? A. Well, he said that he did not say that; he said that he said he had arranged the transportation so that it wouldn't cost us anything meaning me and Mr. Jett, but that it was not going to include himself that was the words that he used; and then I told him that he made a statement to me and Mr. Jett when we were on our return trip; he said that the Choctaw road had offered him a dining car with a cook and furnished with provisions, and every- thing free of charge, but he said he would not accept it on that trip, but he said, "Boys, we are coming back next September and I will accept it then." And he said this evening that if he made that statement he was lying or was drunk. Q. What time was that this afternoon? A. Sometime about four o'clock, I reckon. Q. How did you happen to go to the Governor's office? A. He sent me a request to come over. Q. Who by? A. I think it was Mr. Jacobson; I would not be positive. It was by some young man. Q. I want to ask you, do you know me? A. No, sir. Q. Have I seen you at all since you have been in town? A. Not that I know of. Q. Have you had any talk with Colonel Murphy? A. No, sir; I haven't seen him. Q. You have not talked to either one of us? A. No, sir. Q. The only party interested in this matter that you have talked to I mean by that, is Governor Davis, Colonel Murphy, Colonel Monroe, Mr. Crockett and Judge Bradford, is Governor Davis? A. Davis is the only man I talked with. 407 Q. And you went up to his office after you arrived in town, to see him at his request? A. Yes, sir. I got a request from a young man, I don't know who he was; I would not be positive who it was. I know Mr. Jacobson when I see him in the office, but I don't know whether I wouJd know him on the street or not. When he has a hat on I don't know whether I would recognize him at all or not. I would not go up to the office until I saw Mr. Joe T. Robinson, who is a friend of mine and a lawyer, and I asked his advice, and he advised me to go up and see him. Q. After that you went up there and talked with him? A. Yes, sir. Q. You had the conversation that you have detailed? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did Governor Davis seem to feel outraged that you did not remember the things exactly as he did? A. No, sir; he didn't seem to be. He just made the statement that if he had made that statement he had lied or was drunk. Q. Now, then get down to the trip this was in December, 1901, or was it 1902, that you all went on the trip that you talked about? A. The 20th day of December last, a year ago. We left on Sunday, I think I don't remember Christmas day Q. Who was that? Mr. Jett and yourself and Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. You paid no transportation? A. No, sir. Q. -Going out there? A. No, sir. Q. When you got out there, a coach was furnished you hitched on to the hind end of a construction train? A. Yes, sir. There was a coach standing there on the side- track and it was hitched on and pulled some twenty or thirty miles right out from Sayre it was a new track and the passenger trains did not run over it and when we got to Sayre the trainmaster, I suppose you call him, come up and said "Is this Governor Davis?" and he said it was, and he said, " I have orders to" or "I am ordered to pull your coach anywhere you want to go." He said, "Have you got a coach, Governor Davis?" and he said "I have not, that I know anything about," and then this man pulled out a letter or a tele- gram and said "I have a letter here" or "a telegram directing me to pull your car whenever you order me, and I am ready to take 408 the engine and pull you anywhere you want to go, and there is a coach standing there on the switch for you." The Governor said "If that is the only chance to ride, I guess we will have to take it/' and so we took it and stayed in it. Q. You stayed in the coach, how long? How long were you out there? A. We left here on Sunday and got out there about ten or eleven o'clock on Monday, and stayed out there until about Saturday evening about four o'clock. Q. And when you come back, the coach was pulled back with you and Governor Davis and Mr. Jett in it? A. Yes, sir; Mr. Jett and I stayed in it. Q. What became of Governor Davis? A. He went in the sleeper, but Mr. Jett and I stayed in the car. The conductor tried to switch it off time and again, and I and Mr. Jett told him we wouldn't get out of it. Q. Now, you say you paid no fare going or coming? A. No, sir; Governor Davis and me and Mr. Jett. Governor Davis paid sleeper fare going up there. (Mr. Jacobson here comes around near the witness and asks him if he is the man that came to him and told him that Governor Davis wanted to see him.) Q. (By Mr. McCain) Is that the man that came down for you? A. I don't know. I can't say for sure. Q. (By Mr. Jacobson) Don't you know that I didn't come down there or that you haven't seen me at all? A. I said this, Mr. Jacobson, that I did not know for sure who it was that came after me, but it was a young man about your size, apparently, but I don't know for sure who the man was. I was talking to Mr. Irving at the time, and Mr. Irving didn't know who he was. I don't know whether it was you or not, Mr. Jacobson. Mr. Irving asked me who it was brought me the message, and I said "never mind how I got it, but I got it." I thought maybe it was Mr. Jacobson. but I am not positive who the young man was. Q. You all three came back on this trip, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you did not pay any fare or Mr. Jett did not, as far as you know? A. I suppose not, for Governor Davis told me that it wouldn't cost anything. 409 Q. He said the transportation wouldn't cost anything? A. Well, that was the amount of it. Q. When was it that he told you that h would get a dining car or a sleeper or something of that kind from the Choctaw road, that the Choctaw road had offered to him? A. When we were coming back off of that trip. He said he did not accept it then, but he would accept it next September. Q. What sort of a car was that? A. It was a partitioned car, an old car. Q. A very old car? A. Yes,' sir; it was an old car, wasn't very nice. Q. Was it used for the general passengers on the road? A. I don't think it was. No, I don't think it had been for some time. The conductor said that was the reason he wanted to switch it off, it looked rough. He wanted to leave it at Oklahoma, but Mr. Jett and I wouldn't get out of it. Q. On the trip coming back, when they brought the car back, was the car used by the general public, er did you all just have the use of it? A. No, sir. Q. You all had it to yourselves? A. Yes, sir. Q. And had your dogs and guns and game in it? A. Yes, sir. Our game and guns and dogs. Q. And it never cost you anything? A. No, sir; it didn't cost me anything. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Mr. Thomasson, you say that car was away out in Oklahoma when you got there? A. It was at Sayre. Q. Then you didn't go from here out there in a special car? A. No, sir. Q. You did not know that it was arranged by anybody that you should come back to Little Rock in that old car, did you? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. And the conductor tried to switch it off several times, T believe you stated? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are not certain as to whether Governor Davis included himself with you when he said that it wouldn't cost you anything or not, do you? A. I dan't know only what he said. 410 Q. Do you know of your own personal knowledge that Gov- ernor Davis did not pay for your transportation out there and back? A. No, sir; I can't say that he did not do it, but it is my impression that there wasn't anything paid by anybody. Q. You stated that he paid A. Well, he paid the sleeper fare for him and his son, when they went into the sleeper, but that was when they were coming back on Saturday night. Q. You don't know, then, that he never paid his fare there and back? A. No, sir; I can't say just positively whether he did or not. Q. I want to ask you if your relations with Governor Davis are friendly or not? A. Why, I have nothing against Governor Davis any more than any other good citizen. He and I fell out last summer because I would not swear to a statement that he wanted to dictate and me to sign so he could use it, and he has had no use for me since. Q. And you haven't much use for him? A. I have as much use for him as I ever did. Q. You do? A. Yes, sir, as much as I ever did. Q. You don't think very much of him, though? A. Yes, sir. There is two traits of character that I admire in Governor Davis, and I think the majority of the people of the State admire it too for the reason they voted for him. Q. Do you know if Governor Davis ever accepted the accom- modation that the railroad company you say offered him you said that he said he would accept it? A. He said he would accept it. Q. He did not refuse to accept it, but said that he would accept it, do you know whether he ever accepted it in the future? A. No, sir; I do not know about that. Q. (By Mr. Wafford) Did you understand at the time that you was wanted by Governor Davis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he send for you, or did you go to see him voluntarily? A. Yes, sir; sent a young man, and the young man said that the Governor wanted me to come up and talk with him. 411 Q. (By Mr. McCain) What was the statement that Governor Davis wanted you to sign, Mr. Thomasson? (Mr. Whitley objects to the statement being given. The chair overrules his objection and directs the witness to answer the ques- tion.) Q. Tell us, as near as you can. A. He wired me I think it was before the church trial was to take place on Wednesday, I think the first time he was cited before the church, to come up, that he wanted to see me. He first asked me to sign a statement in the presence of Preacher Thompson, pastor of the First Methodist Church, Little Rock, at the time a statement in regard to Governor Eagle, and I refused to do it, and told him that I would not, that Governor Eagle was a friend of mine and my family Q. State to the committee, Mr. Thomasson, what Governor Davis wanted you to sign what was the statement? A. He wanted me to make a statement that I had heard of it through a second party a party had told me, and he wanted me to write out a statement and give that party's name and let him publish it, and I positively told him I would not do it. That Gov- ernor Eagle was a friend of mine and I would not help him injure Governor Eagle. Afterwards, he wanted to dictate a statement or wanted me to write but a statement, or have it written out and swear to it, a statement in regard to his drinking; wanted me to state that I had never seen him under the influence of whisky at any time, and I told him I could not do it. I told him, I says "I will go in to Mr. Martin's room and dictate a statement and bring it to you, the best I can make," and he wouldn't have it. I don't know what he wanted, I told him the best I could. He then asked me to remain there in the room in his office and let him bring the dogs out, so the dogs wouldn't follow me when I went away, and I went by Mr. Martin's desk, and there was one of the statements there Q. And that was when you fell out, that was over at the Governor's office? A. Yes, sir. I have had some business disagreements money matters with him where he got very mad about, he claiming that I owed him something and I claiming that he owed me something, he disputed my account Q. But as far as these statements are concerned, he wanted you to sign them? 412 A. Yes, sir; and I told him that I could not afford to do it as an honest man. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) You say that you have no personal knowledge of whether Governor Davis paid the transportation or not. Did he tell you whether he did or not? A. No; he told me what I have told you here in regard to it. Q. How was that? A. That was all that he said. Q. How was that? What was it? A. He says when I told him I didn't want to pay out any money, he told me he says the transportation would cost us nothing. Q. (By Mr. Wafford) Did I understand you to say that you and Governor Davis had some trouble about your personal business? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it true that Governor Davis holds your note to-day? A. No, sir. Q. He has got no note of yours? A. No, sir. He claims that I owe him $50, and I have an account against him for $83 that there is some credits on, and I consider that I do not owe him anything. Q. So he has not got your note? A. No, sir. I wrote. Governor Davis several letters calling his attention to the matter and he wouldn't answer me, and I got the operator of the telephone at Williams to call him up so I could talk to him about the matter, and he refused to answer. Q. {By Mr. McCain) It remains a fact, however, that he sent for you and you went to the office went to his office? A. Yes, sir. O. C. LUGWIG, on oath, being by the Chairman first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) What position, if any, do you hold in this State as an official? A. I am a deputy in Mr. Crockett's office, the Secretary of State. Q. What book is that you have there what record? A. That is the minutes of the meetings of the Penitentiary Board. Q. Have you made an examination of it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Between any points? A Yes, sir. 413 Q. Between, say the 13th of August, 1901, and November 21, 1902. A. Yes, sir. Q. I wish you would take the book and point out at page 259, read the entry you find on that page in relation to farms offered to the Penitentiary Board for a convict farm? A. The secretary read propositions from the following owners, offering to sell to the board lands to be used for a convict farm: J. M. & J. G. Taylor, Pine Bluff; Louis Altheimer, Pine Bluff; J. C. Martin, Little Rock; John T. Hardie & Sons, New Orleans; G. B. , and Sappington, Little Rock; Henderson, Fort Smith; M. W. Greeson, Prescott; J. H. Hollis, Little Rock: N. B. Beakley, England, and for an investigation of the following lands offered for sale by the following parties: J. M. & J. G. Taylor, lands in Lincoln County and others; Louis Altheimer, lands in Jefferson County; N. B. Beakley, lands in Lonoke County; J. C Martin, lands in Lincoln County; John T. Hardie & Sons, lands in Chicot County, the expenses of investigation to be paid out of the penitentiary fund. Q. What is the date of that entry? A. Date is August 13, 1901. Q. Now, Mr. Ludwig, have you examined the book, and can you state whether that is the first entry of proposals for the sale of lands made to that board as organized at that time? A. I can't state that positively, Colonel Murphy. Q. Can't you look hurriedly through the book and see if that is the first meeting of the board? A. (After examining the book) Yes, sir; that was the first meeting. I find in July 27, 1901, there was a resolution adopted touching the receipt of offers for the sale of a convict farm to the board. A member of the board introduced a resolution, which was adopted, that the board would on the 9th day of August, 1901 that the Penitentiary Board would hear offers for the sale of lands for a convict farm and on that day would consider them. This resolution was introduced and adopted on the 27th day of July, 1901. Q. Look down and see when the first offer was presented. There was no offer in at that time? A. No, sir. The next was on August 13; that was f- flrst offer I read it a while ago. Q. That is the first entry of any offer of farms? A. Yes, sir; appears to be. 414 Q. Well, now pass down from there to page 277, the meeting of October 16, 1901, and tell us if Louis Altheimer made any other offer between those dates? A. Here is a reference On September 2, 1901 of a propo- sition to sell the State Penitentiary Board a farm for the use of convict labor, and was read from W. H. Eagle, and the secretary was advised to correspond with Mr. Eagle further in regard to the same. Q. But that was on page 169, the calling up of the State farm question was deferred until the next Tuesday's meeting of the board. Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) What date is that? A. September 6,1901. The next is on pages 276 and 277. Here is an entry; Governor Davis moved that the board purchase the Hayward farm for a convict farm upon the terms and at the price offered by Mr. Altheimer. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) On what date is that? A. October 11. Q. Give us the vote, Mr. Ludwig? A. On the adoption of the motion, the following voted "aye, 5 ' Messrs. Davis and Crockett; in the negative, Messrs. Monroe, Hill and Murphy, so the motion failed. Q. What was the price there? A. There is no reference to the price; "on the terms and at the price offered." Q. (By Mr. Crutcher) That don't show the price? A. No, sir; the record don't show the price. Q. (By Colonel Murphy, continuing) Did Mr. Altheimer put in but one offer? A. That seems to be the only mention of an offer from Mr. Altheimer. Q. Now, from that date, October 16, 1901, up to September 19, 1902, is there any entry at all about any purchase of a farm or about any offer of one to the board for sale? A. I don't see any in reading through the minutes. Q. Well, you have examined them, can you say there is none? A. Yes, sir. Q. That the records show none after those dates? A. No, sir; I don't think they do. Q. Well, passing down now to the next to page 319, the meet- ing of September 19, 1902, what does that indicate, if anything, about the offer of any farms? 415 A. Propositions to sell the State farms were read from the following persons: W. H. Miller, the Cummins and Maple Grove plantations in Lincoln County; J. E. Terry, 3,400 acres near Palarm, Faulkner County; E. B. Houston, 11,500 acres in Lincoln County. Q. Now, were any other propositions presented to the board between that date and November 21, 1902, so far as the record entries show, and if so, by whom? Did Mr. Altheimer make any proposition between those dates? A. No, sir; I think not. Here is a proposition from John T. Hardie & Sons. Q. But Mr. Altheimer made none? A. No, sir. Q. Now, pass down to the record entry of November 21, 1902 fhe purchase. Is that the record entry of the purchase or not, and the motions that were made pro and con? Does it show whether this purchase was made on that date? A. Mr. Murphy made this order November 21, 1902, that the board accept the proposition of Edward Urquhart, to sell the State his farm know as the Cummins and Maple Grove plantation, be accepted and the Financial Agent be directed to pay the cash payment of $30,000 on the execution of the contract and the acknowl- edgment of the same by Edward Urquhart and the president and secretary sign the contract for the State and that all other members of the board who will do so sign the same. Q. Does the record show that the purchase was made on that date? A. On Mr. Murphy's motion, the roll was called and the follow- ing members of the Penitentiary Board voted "Aye:" Mr. Monroe, Bradford, Murphy, and Crockett; in the negative, Mr. Davis. Q. Now, I want to ask you the general question, whether that entire record there up to the date of that purchase, shows but the one offer of Mr. Altheimer or not? A. That is the only offer I have discovered in the record. Q. Have you read it with sufficient care to have discovered it, if there had been an additional one? A'. I think I have. Q. Where is Mr. Crockett the Secretary of State? A. I had a telegram from him yesterday stating that he was in Memphis, and could not get over on account of the high water. Q. Have you any information when he will get here? A. No, sir; I have not. 416 Q. Did Mr. Altheimer ever, to your knowledge, file but the one offer in your office? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did you attend all these board meetings? A. No, sir. Q. You did not transcribe it into the records? A. No, sir. These are the minutes that are furnished by Mr. Crockett, who is secretary of the board. Q. You don't know whether anything is missing from the records? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know whether Mr. Altheimer ever offered an additional proposition or not? A. No, sir; only what is recited here. TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Means Committee ON Friday, flarch 20, 1903 Testimony 14. INDEX. HON. T. C. MONROE, DR. J. R. WALTERS, GEORGE W. MURPHY, DR. C. E. WITT, GEORGE W. MURPHY. 419 - Testimony adduced before the Ways and Means Committee on the 20th day of March, 1903. HON. T. C. MONROE being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows : Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Colonel Monroe, you recollect the date of the first meeting of the Penitentiary Board as organ- ized; I mean the first meeting of the board composed of yourself, Governor Davis, Mr. Hill, Mr. Crockett and myself, when we were all members of the board? A. I don't believe I remember the date, Colonel, but I believe it was in January, 1901. Q. Do you recollect whether or not it was about the 18th of January? A. It was about that time; about the 18th I believe. Q. You have examined the recorded minutes of the proceed- ings of the board, have you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you recollect whether or not from the date of the first meeting the 18th of January about that time up to the time that the resolution was introduced to prepare rules and regulations for the discipline and government of the convicts, I mean whether or not you recollect whether or not between those dates any motion was ever made or steps taken to change the treatment of the con- victs in any way? A. Now to the best of my recollection, sir Q. You have examined the records? A. Yes, sir. Q. You find from them that there was none? A. There is no record of it. Q. Well, if such a motion had been made or resolution offered there would have been a record of it? A. Yes, sir; should have been. Q. And do you recollect that the motion or rather the order for drawing up those rules was made on the 28th of June, 1901? A. I can't remember the date, Colonel, but I know at one meeting there was a committee appointed to draft them, and I know at the meeting following they were to make their report. - 420 Q. Do you recollect whether or not that committee did report? A. Yes, sir. Q. At the next meeting? A. Yes, sir; at the next meeting, following the time when they were appointed. Q. Do you recollect whether those rules extended over page 234 to page 242, inclusive, of the records of the board, and at the meeting on the 8th of July, if you remember let me give it to you, I- want you to get the dates. (Shows witness the book containing the records of the proceedings of the Penitentiary Board.) Now there is the date of that meeting; what is it? A. It is July 8, 1901. Q. And here is the beginning of the rules on page 234? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now state whether or not they extend from 234 to 242, inclusive? A. Yes, sir; that is correct? Q. Now between that date and the 12th of August, same year, was there any resolution or motion made looking to a change in the treatment of the prisoners or their government? A. Well, there had been a resolution offered ameliorating the treatment and so on, was all embodied in that meeting, all on the same date; the resolution may have been adopted later about the government of the convicts, but I don't remember. Q, Didn't you go through the books this afternoon? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now those rules were made in pursuance of a motion made by somebody? A. Yes, sir. Q. The records do not disclose whom? A. No, sir. Q. Do you remember who was put on the committee to formu- late those rules? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who? A. Governor Davis, yourself and Judge Hill. Q. Do you remember whether or not all the members voted for them? 421 A. My recollection is that they did not. Q. Who did not vote for the adoption of the rules? A. My recollection I can't trust my memory without examin- ing the records. But my recollection is that they were adopted by a vote of three to two. Q. What three? A. Governor Davis and Mr. Crockett voted against it, as I remember; the records though do not disclose. There was some objection to that resolution. Q. From that time on to the 10th of August when we had that trouble about the interview in the Globe-Democrat, a speech where the Governor had said that he had made, and in which he took us to task, was there any motion or resolution made to change the treatment of the convicts at all? A. None that I remember, or none that the records disclose. Q. Colonel Monroe, if it had been, wouldn't the record dis- close it? A. It should do it, but it does not disclose it to the best of my recollection; there is no mention there of it. Q. So that with the exception of these rules then that were made there was no step taken, and no motion made by anybody to change the diet or the treatment or the manner of working the convicts from the time when the board first met up to the 10th of August, 1901? A. No, sir; except those included in this resolution there and rules. Q. Now on the 10th of August was there or not a resolution, introduced by myself, calling attention to that Globe-Democrat in- terview and the speech that it said Governor Davis had made, in which he charged the three members of the board, excluding him- self and Mr. Crockett, with cruelty to the convicts? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you seen a copy of that resolution? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that it or not, just look at it and see if that is a copy of the resolution as it appears on the records here? Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Is that a copy of the record? A. Yes, sir. 422 Q. Why not read the record? A. Well you can look at the copy and see if it one and I will read the recorded copy. (Colonel Murphy here proceeds to read the copy and part of the record referred to, while Chairman Merriman and Mr. Whitley compare same with the copy hereto attached at the request of the parties hereto.) Q. Now that motion was made on the 12th of August? A. The 10th or 12th; yes, sir. Q. Do you know what was done with it; do you recollect whether or not there was a substitute resolution made by the Gov- ernor or not? A. Yes, sir; there was. Q. What for? A. For the annulment of the Dickinson contract; the contract with the Brick Manufacturing Company. Q. Without any evidence? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it annulled or not; was the substitute passed and the original voted down or not? A. I think so. Q. Don't you know? A. I think so; yes, sir. Q. Then there was no evidence at all there at the time? A. No, sir. Q. Do you recall upon the consideration of the motion and the substitute that there was quite an argument and heated discus- sion between us about that matter? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you or not recollect my saying to the Governor that it was unmerited and unwarranted in him to go into the newspapers and make those statements and charges against the other members of the board simply because they could not see their way to vote with him for the annullment of the contract between the State and the Brick Manufacturing Company? A. In substance; I don't remember the language. Q. And do you recollect me calling his attention to that par- ticular interview in the Globe-Democrat where it was said that he had said that he had made that speech, in which he called these 423 other three members a disgrace to the State, and that he intended to go on the stump and before the people do you remember my stating that and show them up? A. Yes, sir; I remember that very speech. Q. Do you remember whether he said that he had done it had made that speech? A. Yes, sir; and would go before the people and make it Q. Do you recollect my telling him that it was a libelous pro- ceeding on the part of him and unmanly unmerited? A. Yes, sir; I remember that. Q. Did he deny that he had done it, that he had made that speech? A. No, sir; he did not deny it. Q. Did he assert to us that he would continue it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you recall his calling Jesse Stackhouse, an ex-convict, before the board to testify about an ex-convict Rector, who had died during his term as attorney general? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether at that time he had a photograph of Rector, who was in a skeleton condition when it was taken? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he or not state I only want the testimony of Stack- house to use in showing it? A. I don't remember the language, but he did in a general way. Q. Were you at Magnolia some week or two weeks or two or three weeks after this meeting, where he said he would go over the State and continue that talk about the members of the board because they refused to vote with him? A. Yes, sir. Q. For his sentiments? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he make a speech down there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he have the picture of that skeleton with him or not? A. Yes, sir. He had it with him and handed it around among the people in the courthouse where he made the speech. 424- Q. Did he talk about the members of the board in that speech, in the manner in which the reporters said that he said he did in his review in the Globe-Democrat? A. Yes, sir; except myself; he exonerated me for it, but said that I had got religion and joined the Lord's side since then, that was to say that I had joined with him. Q. That was the only vote that you did cast with him on the Dickinson contract? A. Yes, sir. Q. You had voted with him to annul that? A. Yes, sir. Q. And in that speech down there he said you had got religion? A. Yes, sir; come over on the Lord's side. Q. And that religion consisted in voting with him in annulling the Arkansas Brick Manufacturing contract? A. Yes, sir. Q. And so you had got religion? A. Yes, sir. Q. And was now over on the Lord's side? . A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, referring to the rules, Colonel Monroe, do you recol- lect who caused the appointment of that committee; do you recol- lect whether anything had come to the knowledge or information of the members of the board about the over-working of the convicts, or about the feeding of them or anything of that sort, that caused the board to appoint a committee for the formation of those rules? A. Yes, sir; there had been some complaint made to the board that at the different places some of them were being worked overtime; at some of the places twelve hours, and at some places perhaps fifteen hours a day. Q. Do you recollect whether at another meeting that we had, whether there was a resolution passed for the framing of these additional rules? A. Yes, sir; I think at the other first meeting was when the board became possessed of the complaints. (The Chairman here, by request of a majority, asks that the rules referred to be read and made a part of the record in this ex- amination.) (Colonel Murphy proceeds to read the rules as adopted by the board, and as they appear of record in the minutes of the proceed- ings of the Penitentiary Board, which are as follows:) 425 "RULES OF THE ARKANSAS PENITENTIARY. "Discipline. "These were partially adopted on the 8th of July, 1901. "No. 1. When the morning bell rings, each convict shall arise and dress, make up his bed, put his cell in order and be ready to leave his cell at the sound of the signal. Upon returning to his cell he is required to close the door and stand at it until counted. At the signal for retiring he shall undress, go to bed, and not get up therefrom until the ringing of the morning bell, unless compelled to do so by necessity. "No. 2. No convict shall have in his cell or on his person any writing material, knife or tools of any kind, without the permission of the warden. He shall not mark upon or deface in any way any part of the walls or buildings or any other property of the penitentiary, or books or papers furnished for convicts to read. "No. 3. Convicts shall preserve unbroken silence at all times, except they may approach an officer in a respectful manner and address him in regard to their work or* wants, and by permission may converse with one another. They shall work diligently and shall not leave the place where they may be stationed without per- mission of the officer in charge. "No. 4. Convicts may be visited by their relatives or friends, not to exceed three at any one time, and not oftener than once each month; and on a day designated by the Superintendent, and no con- vict shall receive anything but the prison allowances, unless by order of the physician or permission of the Superintendent. "No. 5. All letters, papers or communications, to or from friends outside the prison, must be subject to the inspection of the warden. "No. 6. No convict shall for any cause be punished by whip- ping upon his naked body; and no warden shall whip any convict except he be designated and authorized so to do by the Superin- tendent, in advance; and report thereof shall be made by the Superintendent monthly to the board, together with the causes therefor. And a witness shall be called to all whippings, and in no case shall more than ten lashes be administered at any one time. "No. 7. Members of the clergy of all religious denominations are invited to visit the penitentiary and camps on Sundays and hold services for convicts; and all convicts are expected to attend such services and maintain respectful silence, whether such ser- vices are conducted by the regular chaplain or by volunteer clergy. 426 "No. 8. The penitentiary physician shall from time to time recommend to the board and to the Superintendent such regula- tions and changes in relation to diet, drinking water, stockades, camps, sleeping apartments, working hours and other matters as he may deem necessary or advisable for the comfort and preservation of the health of the convicts. "No. 9. No convict in any camp or elsewhere shall be worked in the rain, nor unreasonably hard, nor for more than ten hours per day, except that on farms operated on the State account system, they may in the planting and cultivating season when necessity requires it, be worked as much as twelve hours per day. "No. 10. No convict camp shall hereafter be established with- out the approval of the board, and no convict or convicts shall here- after be sent to any camp or furnished to any contractor or con- tractors except by order of the board. Nor shall they or any of them be transferred from any camp or employment except on the order of the board, or in case of sickness, by order of the physician. "No. 11. It shall be the duty of the Superintendent to keep the board constantly informed of the number of convicts within the walls and at the various camps, as well those employed as those unemployed, and of the condition of the various stockades and camps. And of the cost of transportation of convicts from the walls to the various camps. "No. 12. When the board makes an order for the sending of any convict from the walls to any camp, or for their transfer from one camp to another the order shall state the number of such con- victs, and the secretary shall furnish the Superintendent with a copy thereof, who shall proceed without delay to execute the same. "No 13. If any contractor or convict laborer or his representa- tives shall endeavor, either by persuasion or other wise to obtain possession of convict labor in violation of these rules, or to have them work more than ten hours per day, or unreasonably hard, he shall have such convicts as he has taken from him, and there- after shall be supplied with no more such labor. "No. 14. It is hereby made the duty of every employee at any camp or elsewhere, to whom overtures are made by any contractor, or any person under the employ of such contractors, to have such convicts work for longer time or harder than as provided in these rules, to at once communicate the fact to the board, and to the Superintendent, and if not done it shall be cause for his dismissal. "No. 15. If at any of the farms being worked by the State there is not a sufficient force to complete the crops now under 427 way, working the convicts so employed no more than twelve hours per day, the Superintendent shall at once report the fact to the board, and such additional number of convicts as is necessary to complete said crop at not more than twelve hours per day shall be taken from the walls, or if not within the walls from camps of contractors to be designated by the board, and sent to such farm or farms for the completion of such crop or crops. In making re- moval from such camps regard will be had by the board to the treatment the convicts have hereto received thereat. Promptness of payment and the condition of the various camps in respect to the comfort of the convicts. "No. 16. As soon as any money becomes due from any con- tractor, person, firm or corporation for the hire of any convict or convicts the Financial Agent shall demand payment thereon, and if it be not at once paid shall immediately report the fact to the board and to the Superintendent; whereupon the Superintendent shall forthwith report to the board the number of convicts in the camp or service of such defaulting contractor, and name such prompt paying contractors, if any, as desire to receive them or any part of them, stating the number so desired by such party, the loca- tion and condition of his camp and the expense of transportation of convicts thereto. In all such cases the convict labor shall be withdrawn from the defaulting contractor, and disposed of in such way as the board may direct, and not restored or replaced while the default continues. "No. 17. The Superintendent shall require that all stockades and sleeping quarters for convicts shall be constructed so as to exclude mosquitos in summer and be reasonably warm in winter, and with suitable and ample ventilation; in addition to being rea- sonably secure against escape; he shall also require abundance of good cistern water wherever the same may be made available, and when cistern water cannot be had, water shall be furnished subject to the approval of the penitentiary physician. "No. 18. All convicts whether in the walls working on State account or under lease shall be fed upon pure, wholesome food; and shall be supplied with water of the kind and character to the satisfaction of the penitentiary physician, whose duty it is hereby made to inspect once a month the water of eacn convict camp. Convicts shall be fed on the following diet: For breakfast, flour bread, meat, molasses, rice and coffee; for dinner, two kinds of vegetables, consisting of either Irish or sweet potatoes, whichever 42 is in season, beans or peas, turnips or turnip-greens, meat and corn- bread and molasses if desired, water and milk (if milk can be had without expense) ; for supper, biscuits, meat, molasses, coffee, pota- toes and rice. "No. 19. Any violation -or attempted violation of any of these rules by any employee or other person shall be cause of removal of such person or employee. "No. 20. These rules shall be read by the Superintendent, or some person delegated by him to do so, at the various convict camps to the employees and convicts, and a copy of the same shall be posted up in a conspicuous place in each camp, and it is made the duty of all such persons, whether employees or convicts, to report any violation or attempted violation of them to some mem- ber of the board; and no employee shall be discharged, and no convict punished for making such report. "No. 21. Every contractor for the hire of convicts shall be furnished a copy of these rules, and it is made his duty to report every violation or attempted violation of any of them, of which he may have knowledge; and in the event of his failure to do so, all convicts in his employ shall be withdrawn from him and no more furnished to him. "No. 22. On Sunday each convict shall be required to be cleanly dressed, and to observe the Sabbath by attending services, if any. If no services are held at the camp, then by reading or other amusements that are not harmful or vicious. No boxing, gambling, cock fighting or other like sports shall be allowed within the walls or committed on Sunday, either by the convicts or guards or other penitentiary employees, and any violation of this rule shall subject the wardens or guards or other employees to dismissal, and the Superintendent is charged with its faithful execution. "No. 23. All convicts shall be conveyed from the counties where sentenced to the penitentiary by the warden, acting as trans- portation agent, and no allowance shall be made to any other pel- son for services for such transportation. "No. 24. No contractor for the hire of convicts, or any of his employees or representatives, shall curse any of such convicts or abuse them by any offensive epithets, whether profane or not, and any violation of this rule shall be cause for annulling the contract and withdrawing the convicts from the contractor." Q. Colonel Monroe, was there any contractor that had charge of convicts, or had the right to the labor of convicts in Lonoke count v? 429 A. None that I know of, sir. Q. Well, do you know what camp there was in Lonoke county? A. There was no camp there except the contractor's camp that was working for the State. Q. That farm was rented by the State and worked on the State's account? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then it is not true that there was a contractor in Lonoke county that had convicts or who was doing farming with convicts on anybody's land? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Colonel Monroe, do you know personally that there was no room for complaint about the treatment of those convicts, by Governor Davis, at any time? A. No, sir; I don't know what Governor Davis heard or seen about the treatment of the convicts. Q. You don't know then that these interviews and these speeches were made by him without reason or cause? A. No, I have no way of knowing that. Q. Now I want to ask you, the rules 6 and 7 referred to there in regard to the whipping and treatment of convicts and the enforcement of the other rules that were prescribed by your board, do you know if those rules were fully complied with in the dif- ferent camps I mean do you know this personally? A. No, sir; not personally. I have no way of knowing it per- sonally, Mr. Whitley, for I could not be at all the camps and see whether they were being carried out or not. Q. Through what avenues did you have to receive this infor- mation, for hearing of it? A. The treatment of the convicts? Q. Yes, sir? A. There is simply a rule to the effect that the Superintendent is required to report it. Q. The Superintendent is required to report it? A. Yes, sir; monthly. Q. The rules, I believe, require the Superintendent to make a monthly report of it? A. The rules, I believe, require a monthly report. Q. That report then had to come through the contractors to- the Superintendent? A. The rules do not say that that I know of. 430 Q. How were these reports to come to the board? A. I just said from the Superintendent. Q. Now by what means did the Superintendent have any in- formation as to how the convicts were treated personally? A. I don't know that; I never served as Superintendent. Q. You don't know that? A. No, sir. Q. I will ask you if it is the duty of the board to ascertain how the convicts were treated? A. The rules require the Superintendent to make monthly reports to the board, Mr. Whitley. Q. And that is the only means by which you have for receiv- ing any information as to their treatment? A. Yes, sir. Q. I believe since the rules state that the contractor or parties in charge of those convicts, and the convicts themselves, has to furnish some member of the board information as to their treat- ment, in the way of feeding or being fed and whipped? A. I don't know, I think it says any member of the board. Q. Any member of the board, well the rule says that if any convict is being mistreated, why he shall furnish or the officer or man in charge shall furnish some member of the board with in- formation; now do you think it likely or probable that a convict whose letters and everything shall pass through the inspection of the officers in charge, that he will have the opportunity of inform- ing the member or members of the board of his mistreatment? A. I rather not think he would. Q. Then the information to be received by the board of the treatment of the different men comes through the officer or man in charge or in interest in it, is not that true? A. Oh, he has got to report to the officer in whose charge they are placed, and through that officer to the board. Q. Now, if the convicts at any camp are being mistreated, those rules requiring their treatment and punishment and their being fed, if those rules are violated do you think it probable 431 that the parties in interest or in charge of them would report their violation? A. I can't state about that, Mr. Whitley, whether they would or not. Q. The parties that are guilty of the violation of the rules who are in charge would not likely report the violation, would they? A. I don't know, sir. I can't answer that question. Q. Well, I will ask you if you do not think it a fact that the information has been greatly censored before it reached the board in reference to their treatment? A. I have no reason to think that either. I do not believe that the warden or the officer in charge of the convicts would lis- ten to every little report brought to him by a convict or some sub- ordinate. I believe that each man employed to take charge of con- victs are above anything of that kind. They would not listen to those little tales floating around. If there was any violation of the rules we have men in as wardens that would make reports of the violation, and would not keep men of that kind employed in charge knowing that they violated the rules themselves, while in there. Q. What you state is in regard to the information brought to the board where the state convicts are worked, but what I am more directly inquiring into is these contractors that you have hired these convicts to out here? A. Those contractors, Mr. Whitley, we furnish wardens to them. The state puts a warden with the contractor; it employs the warden; the contractor has nothing to do with that. Q. Now, I will ask you if you know that those convicts have not been fed as Gov. Davis has stated in that interview, I believe, or supposed interview, at any time? A. Please state your question again. Q. Do you know that the state convicts have not been fed as Gov. Davis is supposed to have stated in that interview, at any time? 432 A. Well, I don't know as I get at your question; what you are trying to drive at, Mr. WMtley Q. I believe in that supposed interview, at least a resolu- tion was passed stating that Gov. Davis had said that they had been fed on greasy meat and half-cooked cornbread and cabbage, and fed out in the broiling sun, you remember those statements? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, I am asking you if you know that that has not been the case? A. Well, I can't say that I do know it. Q. Well then, if Davis made that statemnt in that interview you do not know that he did not tell the truth, do you? A. No, I can't say that he did not. Q. Now, in the treatment of Rector and his exhibiting of his photograph around over the state, do you know that that man was not treated as Davis said he was treated? A. No, sir; I don't know it. Q. Then you don't know but that he told the truth about that, do you? A. No, I don't know that either. Q. Do you know of any contractor having forfeited their contract by reason of the violation of those rules? A. I haven't heard of any. Q. Do you know that those rules have not been violated by the contractors, or any of them? A. No, sir; I don't know that. Q. Now, Col. Monroe, the board endeavored to discharge their duties in the prescribing of those rules, and I am satisfied acted in good faith, you prescribed the rules, and that is as far as you went with it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you don't know whether those rules have been strictly enforced or not? A. No, sir; have no way of knowing that. I stated a while ago that I couldn't visit all the camps all over the State to see whether they were being complied with or not. 433 Q. (By Mr. Holland) With reference to the contractors in Lonoke County furnishing convicts to individual farmers, you stat- ed that that condition did not exist in Lonoke County there was no such a contractor down there? A. We had no contractors in Lonoke County; the State worked some convicts down there. Q. Did such a condition exist elsewhere; did you have con- tractors elsewhere that were letting them out elsewhere? The point, Colonel, that I want to know is, was there a contractor any- where that sub-let the convicts to individual farmers? A. If there was I did not know it. No, sir; none that I know of. Q. (By Mr. Funk) Col. Monroe, you are the chairman of the Penitentiary Board? A. Yes, sir. Q. As chairman of that committee, was there ever any com- plaints filed with you as chairman about the violation of those rules? A. No, sir; none at all. Statements of that kind are usually filed with the Secretary of State, who is the secretary of the board. Nobody ever filed any before me. They were not handed in to me before the board. Q. Well, if they had been filed with the secretary wouldn't it have been apt to have been called to your attention? A. Yes, sir; he would be apt to call the board's attention to it in meeting before the board. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Now, Colonel, that we have disposed of that question, do you remember that the rules direct that no convict shall be whipped on the naked back; now, is it not a fact to avoid violating the rule or evade the rule that convicts should not be whipped on the naked back or body, that the wardens would place a piece of mosquito bar over their backs, and didn't that infor- mation come to your knowledge come to the board? A. Not to my knowledge. I don't remember of it. 434 Q. ( You don't remember any such information as that? A. No, sir. I heard it talked generally about, but if there was ever any complaint of that kind before the board I don't remember it. Q. You heard that talked generally? A. Yes, sir. But not in the board meeting; not in an official way at all that I remember of. Q. I will ask you if the board at any time visited the convict camp down here at any time to ascertain? A. Yes, sir. I visited them a few times. I went in company with Gov. Davis a time or two; and I went in company with some other members of the board; I don't just remember who, several times. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) After the adoption of these rules by the Penitentiary Board, did Gov. Davis, as a member of said board, ever report to the board any information about mistreatment of the convicts ? A. No, sir. Q. After the adoption of the rules was there ever a case of mistreatment reported to the board at board meeting? A. No, sir. Q. Well, if it had been would it have been investigated? A. Certainly it would; yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did Gov. Davis assign any reasons for not voting for those rules, do you know what his reasons were for not voting for them? A. I don't remember that the governor assigned any. Q. You don't remember what his reasons were? A. No, sir. Q. Didn't he give any reasons for not voting for those rules? A. I don't remember. Q. (By Mr. Holland) Were those rules made, Colonel, before or after the Rector incident over there, the taking of the picture? A. I think it was after the Rector matter. It was exhibited at the time the resolution and rules were put, I think. I don't re- member the dates exactly, but I think it was exhibited then. - 435 Q. (By Col. Murphy) Do you know whether the governor liad a wood cut made of that picture or not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether he had it then published and printed with Stackhouse's testimony appended to it in different papers in this county in the Memphis Commercial Appeal notably and the St. Louis Post Dispatch? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did this man Rector die before or after the present board went in office, did he die before Janury, 1901, while Gov. Davis was Attorney General, or after he became Governor, or do you know about that? A. I don't know, Colonel. Q. Now, you were asked if you knew that he had not been whipped in the manner in which Gov. Davis said; now I want to ask you if you know individually about the human constitution, the results of living up on it, if it would be possible to stand this, or whether it would be possible for a man whose body has been whipped so he died from it to survive until he would get into that skeleton-like condition? A. No, I, Well I would rather think not. I have information from other sources as to what he died with, but that is all I know about it. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Colonel, your answer to that question is just an impression of your own isn't it? A. Oh, yes, sir; he asked me that and I answered. Q. Now, I will ask you if such consequences as that Rector incident were transpiring throughout the state of Arkansas under its present management then if you think it should have been published and a check put to it? A. Not until after it had been investigated and the truth of the matter ascertained. Q. I say if such consequences had been? A. Well, I answer just like I did; I will state that I don't think it should have been published to the world without first making an 436 investigation about the facts make an investigation first to ascer- tain the facts of it. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Was the expenses of procuring this wood cut of this photograph paid by the State out of the Governor's contingent fund? A. I am not able to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. DR. J. R. WALTERS, being duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Col. Murphy) Now, doctor, I wish you would look at that skeleton picture of James P. Rector read the inscription on each side of the engraving and then examine the picture. Mr. Whitley Colonel Murphy, do you introduce him as an an expert witness? Colonel Murphy That is what I do. Q. Now, doctor, if that is the picture of James F. Rector, for- merly a convict in the State Penitentiary, would he have ever reached that physical condition from being beaten before death before he died? A. Well, you just want my opinion? Q. You are a doctor? A. Yes, sir. Of course I can state this. I would not say that he could; I would say that he could not. If he had died from being beaten he would either have died from shock at the time, or reactionary fever following it, or if not from that, from sepsis. (Reads report in the paper "This is taken Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Now would you say it was or that it would be impossible you wouldn't say that it was impossible for a man to have been starved and whipped into that condition, would you, and still A. Yes, sir; he might be starved into it, but I don't think he could possibly be whipped into it. "tDf course you could starve a man into that condition. Q. You would not say that that man was not starved into that condition? 437 A. I can't say that, no, sir. Where a man starves he usually dies from some stomach trouble before he even gets to that condi- tion. If he would have starved to death I don't believe that a man would, but I don't say that it would be impossible for him not to, but I say it is possible, but not probable at all. "My name is Jesse Stackhouse. I was sent to the penitentiary from Clay County for forgery. I was pardoned by Gov. Jones the 30th day of June, 1900. I was confined at the Barton camp, near England. I knew a convict while I was there named Jim Rector, sent up from Clay County for larceny. I saw Rector whipped more than once at Clear- Lake and England camps by Tyre, the riding boss at England, and Mosley, the deputy warden, at Clear Lake. One of these whippings I considered excessive. They hit him seventeen licks on the bare body. This excessive whipping occurred one Sunday morning,, and we were told to bathe in the lake after Rector was whipped, and I saw the blood running down his legs and sometimes dropping on the ground. I had seen Rec- tor before he went to this farm and he was apparently a well-made, healthy man. When I left the farm he was very much emaciated and poor. He was whipped for not plowing the middles out of his cotton rows properly the day before, and I do not believe he had the physical strength to hold the plow steady. I did not see deceased Rector after he went back to Clay county after he was pardoned. My opinion is that Rector's emaciated condition was caused from lack of sufficient food I mean by that I do not think he got enough to eat. We had boiled bulk pork three times a day, and for dinner we had cold water, cornbread and stock peas. For breakfast we sometimes had molasses. Occasionally we would have flour bread for breakfast. I think Rector was about forty years old, and think if he had been fed properly and not overworked he would have got along all right." 438 "LASHING OF CONVICTS. "Arkansas Governor and His Crusade for a Change. "The Gathering of Evidence. "The Photograph of Convict Rector, Who Wasted Away and Died as a Result, It Is Alleged, of Whipping and Insufficient Food. "Arkansas Bureau, The Commercial Appeal, Capital Hotel Building. "Little Rock, Ark., August 16, 1901. "Governor Davis certainly cannot be accused of lack of earnest- ness in his purpose to bring about a change in the methods of handling convicts in Arkansas. His devotion to and zeal in the cause have already led him into conflicts which can hardly be pleasant to him, yet he betrays no symptoms of abandoning his purpose of modifying his methods. This much without reference to the correctness of his premises or conclusions in every instance, is a matter which time and the courts must decide. The Governor is proceeding carefully in the collection of evidence to sustain his contention." (Then comes the skeleton picture with this descrip- tion in the lower right hand corner:) ("James F. Rector, of Clay county, who was released from pen and died soon after reaching home. He was scarred in a horrible manner from having been beaten.") "A few days since he procured a photograph of Convict Rector, as he appeared shortly before his death, and taken for the purpose of showing the effects of the severe whippings given him by guards on the farm. He has further taken steps to have pre- served the testimony of witnesses before the Penitentiary Board at its recent inquiry into the alleged violence of these guards toward convicts in their charge. Following is the testimony of one of them:" GEORGE W. MURPHY, being sworn, at the request of the committee, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Now, Colonel, just state the reasons for your prescribing those rules? A. Well, information came to me, and I suppose to the other members of the board, that the men were being overworked, and 439 in one or two instances it was stated that the contractors under- took to influence the wardens to give them excessive work. Q. You say a contractor A. You see a contractor tinder the law is not given over the- working of the convicts, we are just to furnish him certain labor, and a warden is sent along with the convicts and has the govern- ing of the convicts, he takes and works them for the contractor; the contractor has no right to set the amount of work or diminish the quantity of work, the hours, the time and quantity the warden is just furnished him with convicts and does certain work. Now we had heard that some of them were being worked too much and we heard that some of the farms were scant of labor that the crops were too large for cultivation by reason of the labor from the number of convicts we had on hand, and there was some com- plaint that the convicts on some of those places were being worked overtime, and so we made those rules. Q. Prescribing the duties that they should have? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now you have a rule there preventing whipping on the naked back; did you hear that that treatment had been imposed upon them? A. Oh, yes, sir; up to that time I understood that it was being done, and it is even stated now that some of the convicts are so incorrigible that you frequently can't do anything with them, and I am of the opinion that this is true; some of the convicts are harder to manage I find at every camp, and since we have had these rules occasionally you will find one that you can't do anything with. Q. Now you don't know that that man Rector was not starved into this emaciated condition, do you? A. Well, I will tell you, I hardly thing it possible that he was singled out to be starved, and I don't see how he could have starved on the treatment there unless the others were starved too.- Q. Do you say that it was impossible for a' man to be singled out for anv inhuman treatment 440 A. I would say that I do not think it possible in this age where there is any civilized humanity in the management to single out and starve a man to death if they only wanted to do it for a pun- ishment Q. Would you say then that it was impossible for a man to like some other man or convict better than some other one convict? A. Oh, no, sir; I don't say that. Q. Would you say that it would be impossible for one convict to stand in better favor with the management than another? A. As a matter of course, no. Q. Then if a convict does not stand in the favor of the guard and manager, or the management, I mean the men in control, then don't you think he would be more or less subject to partial treat- ment? A. Yes, sir; I expect there would be a great deal in human nature-; I would be inclined myself to treat a man who was incor- rigible in his nature with more severity than one who was less so. Q. Then you do not think that this man Rector was starved into this emaciated condition? A. Oh, I was not present every day, and that was before I be- came a member of the board; he died according well, it seems to be conceded that he died previously that he died in the sum- mer, died in the summer of 1900, I think it was, and of course I came in as a member of the board after that; but I can't get at how he could have starved to death; there is no doubt about that. I want to say that in addition, that I never heard since this has eluded me at any time that Mr. Altheimer had ever offered or ever stated to anybody that he would sell that Altheimer place for $75,000. And I want to say that the only offer that he ever made to the board was emphatically at $87,500. I want to say that the motion to purchase it was at that offer. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Made by whom that .motion? A. That motion was made by Governor Davis. Q- (By Mr. Whitley) Does your record show the motion there? Who made it? 441 A. This record does not the motion there is not contained in the record. The $87,500 offer was taken up, but before it was voted on Altheimer came in and he was asked if he couldn't take less I believe that was now not a minute before the vote was taken on it and he said he would not and could not, and so we voted on it, and three of us voted against it, and that proposition was never before the board after that in any shape or form. The $87,500 proposition was the only one and Altheimer was emphatic when interrogated by the Governor before the committee if he could not take less than $87,500, and said he could not, that that was the very least sum he would take. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) Colonel, was that the last meeting? A. It was the last meeting at which that Altheimer farm was ever considered. There never was another offer. When these other offers came in there I went to the Secretary of State to see that offer see if it was there still before the board, and he told me that it was not; that Mr. Altheimer had come and taken it out, or at any rate it could not be found. Q. Did you know that Altheimer ever offered to take a less price for that farm? A. To my personal knowledge I did not. My information is, though, that he has offered it to others for a great deal less. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) You know that he swore here that he said that he had offered it for $75,000? A. Yes, sir; I know he said that; I think he said he told Gov- ernor Davis or he said he did tell Governor Davis that he would take $75,000 for it, but Governor Davis didn't tell us. That is, he didn't tell me, and he didn't speak of it in the board when we voted upon it. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did Mr. Altheimer state that this offer he made subsequent to the matter, or which was his written offer, was presented? A. No, sir; Mr. Altheimer said that Governor Davis had asked him about it and that then his son went and fixed it, and that Gov- ernor Davis came out and told him that we didn t want it, and that that was the very time that we had voted upon it. 442 Q. Didn't you understand him to say that it was at another meeting since that time? A. No, sir. I don't see how it could be, since it was never discussed at any subsequent meeting. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) Colonel Murphy, just for information, did you know that Mr. Altheimer ever offered the property to Gov- ernor Davis on this basis? A. No, sir; I do not know that. I can't say what I don't know. I could tell you in this way I could go on and tell you occurrences, and let you draw your own conclusions, but I don't know it positively. Q. Well, Colonel Murphy, what I wanted to know is just the truth about it? A. That is all I can do, Mr. Stockard, is to tell you the facts. Q. Well, Colonel, that is what 1 want in such matters as those. I don't want to know anything but A. No, I don't tell you any hearsay at all; I am too good a lawyer for that; but if you ask me for the hearsay I can give it to you. Q. Well, Colonel Murphy, I don't want to shut out anything; if you know anything about this business I want it all to come out? A. I did not hear any conversations between them. All that I know you know with the exception that you got it through me. I don't know anything about it only that the farm was offered to the State for a convict farm. If it is true that Governor Davis told him he could sell it to the board for $75,000 and he did not try to do so, but tried to tell it to the board for $87,500, why you just draw your deductions; that is not for me to judge. He never did offer to sell it to the board for $75,000; the offer that was made to the board was $87,500, and I swear to that Q. Let me understand you, Colonel; I want to know if Gov- ernor Davis ever offered to sell this farm to the board for $75,000? A. No, sir; it was $87,500. Q. It was not $75,000? A. No, he did not. 443 - - Q. I want to understand this thing. Now that offer that was called up in board meeting was whether you would accept the offer of Altheimer that was $87,500; now you also testified that you did not know that Altheimer had ever offered to sell for a less price? A. I don't know that there was ever but the one offer made. Q. At any other board meeting A. No, sir; that $75,000 proposition never was in a board meet- ing. Q. Then what I want to get at, Colonel Murphy, if it was ever offered to the board for less than $75,000 in a board meeting? A. I have sworn that he never offered it for less than $87,500 in any board meeting. And now whether Altheimer told the truth when he said he had told Governor Davis that he would take $75,000 for it, I do not know. Q. What I want to know is whether it was ever offered in board meeting after that? A. No, sir; it was never offered in a board meeting at less than $87,500, and at that price the vote was taken. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Did Mr. Altheimer or Governor Davis submit that proposition? A. Now just how it got into the secretary's hands I don't know, or who did the filing of the papers with the secretary. Mr. Altheim- er swore that he delivered the price in writing to the secretary didn't he, on the stand here? I think that he did, but I wouldn't be positive about that. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) I want to ask you one more thing, Col- onel Murphy, about a statement, you started to tell it here the other night, and that is if Altheimer ever attempted to bribe you, and now I want you to tell us how it was done? A. There is a little bit of delicacy about that matter, but you asked me and I will state it; nothing shall deter me from doing well, it was a very ingenious thing, and the circumstances were very favorable to it. I had gone down there at his especial request, after the other members went to look over it, and we rode around 444 considerably and finally got up to his house, there where one of his tenants was and we got down and took dinner. At his table we were refreshing ourselves by eating and among other things Mr. Altheimer got to talking about his daughter being a singer, and we were talking along in a friendly sort of a way, and about her singing, and about something that occurred up at French Lick Springs, and that my daughter had heard her sing, and he went on to say that she wanted to go to Europe and spend two or three years over there and finish up her musical education. I very inno- cently said to him that I had a daughter too who was somewhat proficient, or supposed to be, in music, and we went on to dilate on their qualities, and that my daughter had spoken of his daugh- ter, she had heard her sing and I said it is singular too that we get together and somewhat in the same fix, for I have for a long time wished to send my daughter to Europe to finish her educa- tion, but I have abandoned the idea, for I am too poor, and never expect to be otherwise, and then he said, "Well, I wouldn't say any- thing wrong, but if I sell this farm to the State they could both go/' At that I said nothing; I thought silence was the best rebuke; my hesitation seemed to create the impression in his mind that I don't know what but it was that he did not think I repudiated it. Well, I stayed there a while and when the train came I came on home. He came into my office the next morning and said that they were going to have that place up and pass on it in board meeting; I said, Mr. Altheimer, I don't want that place. He said, you won't vote for it. I said, no, sir; I cannot. That is all there is to it. I regret that I hinted at that at all the other night, and I should never have done it, but he put me out. Q. You regarded then that you were offered a bribe? A. Yes, sir. Well now it looks to me like that might have been it. It was a mighty close approach to it. Now I regret, gentlemen, that I was asked that question, because I did not really want to tell it. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) I want you to tell it, Colonel Murphy. A. It was certainly an offer of something that would have cost me a great deal more than I possess. He may have thought 445 very innocently of it, that I do not say how he could, but he may have done so; and I may have been a little too emphatic. Q. Now, I just want to know, Colonel, if you considered that a bribe? A. Well, it was not exactly a bribe, but I think it was an over- ture that way. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) You have never exposed that before to anybody, have you? A. Well, yes; I have told a friend or two about it, and I think I told Mr. Crockett of it. It hurt me to think that anybody sup- posed that I could be reached in that way. DR. C. E. WITT, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Doctor, what position do you hold? A. Physician at the penitentiary. Q. How long have you been such? A. Will be four years the first day of this coming April. Q. Did you ever know a convict by the name of James F. Rector? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever treat him? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where? A. In the hospital at the penitentiary walls. Q. When? A. Colonel, I think that it was in the fall of 1900; it was the first fall before Governor Davis took his seat as Governor, I think. Q. Well now, for what cause was he sent to the walls for treat- ment? A. He was sent there with indigestion; intestinal indigestion. Q. Where was the seat of the trouble? A. It was intestinal indigestion biliousness. 446 Q. How long was he there in the hospital under your treat- ment? A. He came in from one of the camps the latter part of Sep- tember or the first of October, and I think stayed until about some- time the early part of November, I don't remember just the exact date, but some time about six weeks he was in the hospital. Q. From four to six weeks? A. From four to six weeks, my records will show exactly. Q. Well, how was the disease, obstinate or easy to treat? A. No, sir. Q. Did it yield to the treatment? A. No, sir; it did not yield to the treatment; he could not digest anything. We gave him malted milk morning and evening, and he would either vomit it up or it was passed through undi- gested, and he simply starved until he was in an emaciated condi- tion. He could not retain any stimulants. Q. What was his condition in other respects when he reached the hospital? A. He was somewhat emaciated; that was the only thing. Q. I want to ask you with respect to the appearance of any scars on his body? A. There was none when he came to the hospital. Q. No scars? A. No, sir; I don't remember seeing any scars or sores on him of any kind. Q. Did he become scarred or his body become sore anywhere after he came there, and if so what was the cause of it? A. About two weeks or maybe ten days, there was a couple of bed sores developed on him right here( indicating spots near hip). Q. What became of him; did he die? A. He was pardoned. I recommended to the board that he be pardoned and Governor Jones pardoned him. Q. Did he ask it himself or not? A. The convict did. 447 lat were the circumstances? A. He told me he had a family at home he had a family at some place in Clay County, I believe; Piggott I think and he wanted to go home to them; he said that they would take care of him, and I came down and recommended that he be pardoned and represented these facts to the board and the Governor pardoned him. Q. Did you or not before that tell him whether he would get well? A. Yes, sir; I told him that I did not think he could get well. Q. You could not administer anything to him or give him any treatment that would check the disease or break it down? A. I tried, but didn't seem like anything I did done him any good. Q. Did you see any bruises or places upon his person as if he had been whipped? A. No, sir. Q. Do you remember when Governor Davis got the skeleton picture A. I remember seeing it in the paper. Q. Did you or not talk with Governor Davis about that before he published that photograph? A. Yes, sir; met him here at the state house, and I think he had a photograph of the convict, and he asked me about him, and I gave him a history of the case as I have stated it here. Q. Did he say anything to you at that time about his having sores on him from being whipped? A. Yes, sir; he said he understood that the convict had sores on him from being whipped, and that is when I told the history of the case, and I explained to him about the sores, and told him how he got the sores ; told him that they were bed sores developed right here in the hospital. Q. Did you tell him that he had no scars on him from whip- ping? A. Yes, sir. 448 Q. That those scars were not from whipping? A. Yes, sir. There was no scars on him, or I do not know of any and I examined him, but after he was in the hospital about ten days there was two raw bed sores developed on him. Q. Now what did the Governor say when you told him that? A. I don't remember, Colonel. I just told him the same as I have told you here. Q. Well, did he say whether he was satisfied about what you had stated or whether he was not satisfied? A. He didn't seem to be satisfied about the matter, but I don't remember what he said. Q. Do you know whether or not Mr. McConnell ever told him? A. He said he did. Q. Do you know that? A. No, sir; he just told me that he talked with the Governor. I don't know what he said to him about it, though. Q. Doctor, is it true or not that since the new board went in I mean since the board as at present organized took charge of these convicts that they have been overworked and not fed, and whipped and abused and mistreated? A. No, sir; I don't think they have. They have not so far as I know. Q. As the doctor, do you visit the different camps? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Where was this man Rector before he was brought to the penitentiary hospital here? A. He came from England camp, the Beakley place. Q. How often did you make visits to that camp? A. I try to make a visit about once a month; sometimes it would be a little longer before I could get around. Q. Then you have no personal knowledge as to what trans- pired at those camps in your absence? A. No, sir; I would have no personal knowledge of it. Q. Was the examination that you made here such that you would have seen if punishment had been administered; would you 449 disrobe and examine a prisoner convict when he is brought in from the camp? A. Every convict that is brought to the walls, if he is sick, I strip him and examine him. I have to do it. Q. Did you make a special examination to see whether these scars were there that are being talked about, or would you do that if you had no information to that effect? A. No, unless some reason for it, but I say I usually strip them off and examine them, and I didn't see any scars on this man. Q. Well, if there was nothing wrong with their backs you didn't take especial pains to examine their backs? A. Unless they complained. Q. These bed sores, I believe you stated, came they were on his back when he came to the hospital? A. No, sir; they developed there at the hospital. Q. Did you make a special examination of him to see whether he had been whipped or not? A. I don't remember that I did. I never examined him for that purpose, but I am sure I would have seen them when I exam- ined him. Q. Now would you swear positively that he was not whipped? A. No, sir; I would not. Q. Were there any scars on his back except those two sores? A. I don't remember of any scars on his back. Q. You don't swear positively that there was not though, do you? A. No, sir. I will not swear positively that there was no scars on his back, for there may have been some there from other pur- poses or other causes. Q. You will not swear positively then that he had no scars on his back from whipping? A. I don't think he did. Q. You are not positive? A. No, sir. Q. Well, you testify as to the diet, will you testify as to the Testimony 15 450 kind of diet this man had before he came down to this emaciated condition? A. No, sir; except what I was told by the warden. Q. From your personal knowledge? A. From my personal knowledge I do not know. Q. Now can you state to this committee what causes lead, or what excesses lead to that extreme case of indigestion? A. I do not know. Q. You do not state, then, that it was improper food that he received down there? A. No, sir; because we have plenty of people that are affected with indigestion that have the best kind of food that they can get. Q. You don't state that that was not caused by the food? A. I do not. Q. Greasy pork and half-cooked corn bread and cabbage, wouldn't that cause indigestion? A. I can't say. Q. Don't you think that a man's digestive organs would natur- ally revolt against such food as that? A. It would depend upon the condition of his digestive organs nearly altogether about that. Q. Don't you think that your digestive organs would? A. It would depend upon whether I was hungry or not, or in a shape to eat it or not. But, of course, if my stomach was already in a bad condition it would revolt against such food. Though I don't think they had that kind of food down there. Q. Well, you do not know personally v/hat the convicts had down there when you were not there? * A. I did not; no, sir. Q. Was that man able to travel when he was pardoned out of the penitentiary? A. He was able to walk; I brought him in. He walked across the hospital, not very well, but he was not absolutely helpless when I brought him in. -451 Q. Have you seen that photograph and Stackhouse's evidence in connection with it? A. No, sir. Q. Colonel Murphy, I wish you would let him see that photo- graph. (The photograph referred to is handed to the witness.) I wish you would say if that looks anything like Rector? A. Yes, sir; it looks very much like him. Q. You have not read the Stackhouse evidence? A. I don't remember whether I have ever read it or not. Q. Well just read it over there, if you haven't already read it, for I want to ask ^ O u a question about it. A. (After looking at the evidence referred to) Yes, sir; I remember reading it now. Q. Would you state that these were not the facts? A. I don't know whether they are or not. I just don't know anything about it; I don't know whether this testimony is true or not. Q. Do you know how long that man lived after he was par- doned out? A. No, sir. Q. He went home, to Piggott, did he from here? A. Yes, sir; I think he went home from here; I think it was at Piggott. Q. Doctor, you visit the camps, I believe you said, about once a month? A. I am supposed to visit the camps once a month I some- times go twice. Q. Do you know how many convicts there are out there at any one time? A. Most out there in the fall of the year; I think there was 150 down there then. Q. What time did this man come to the hospital? A. I can't say just exactly without looking at my books. There was lots of indigestion of course and bilious trouble; but I don't remember that I remember any other just at that time. Q. Was he whipped after he got to the hospital? 452 A. No, sir. Q. Did he have cooked cabbage and half cooked corn bread and greasy pork after he got to the hospital, or was he fed on some proper diet? A. I fed him got this malted milk that you buy at the drug- storesI got that for him, and every little nice thing that I would" see that I thought he could eat, why I would get it for him. Q. Well, if he had been scarred from whipping when he got to the hospital would you have discovered it? A. Yes, sir; I think I would. Q. (By Mr. Holland) Did the Convict Rector make any state- ment to you that he had been whipped unmercifully? A. I don't remember that he ever told me anything about it. (Colonel Murphy here states as follows) : In regard to charge No. 17, the trip to New York, I wish to say that that charge, while I depended on information that I had received, I find that that information has turned out erroneous, and I am satisfied that it was wrong; and that anything that has been said about that road or about any officer or attorney in connection with it should not have been stated. Q. (By Mr. Whitley of Colonel Murphy) Who constitutes the board of trx commissioners? A. The Governor, Secretary of State and Auditor. Q. Do you know whether the railroad tax or levy in this State has been raised since Governor Davis went into office? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. As Governor? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. You don't know whether they are raised or not? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Do you know whether the board voted as a unit on the rail- road levies or not? A. I do not. I am unable to give you any information at all about it. I never was present at a single meeting. I do not know. Q. You don't know whether he voted against the other mem bers of the board or not on this proposition? 453 A. No, sir; I don't know anything about it. I never was pres- ent and never have heard that he did and never have heard that he did not. I don't know whether the property is taxed up right or not, or rather if all of it is taxed up, but I am going to see that it is another year. Resolution offered by Murphy on the 12th of August, and begin- ning on page 251 of the penitentiary records: Whereas, at a meeting of this board on the 8th day of July, 1901, Governor Jefferson Davis, a member of the board, introduced a resolu- tion to annul the contract entered into on the 4th day of August, 1899, between the State of Arkansas and the Arkansas Brick Manufacturing Company and to direct the Superintendent to turn the convicts in the employ of said brick company into the penitentiary walls, subject to the further action and disposal thereof by the board, on the alleged ground that it was vicious and hurtful to the best interests of the State and the proper working of convicts, and was made for a period of ten years, without authority of law, and while arguing in support thereof stated that his signature to the contract was obtained by fraud, of which he offered to furnish no evidence. And, whereas, he afterwards, it is said, through newspapers and in public speeches, made in the absence of the members of the board who voted against the resolution, and without notice to any of them of his intention to do so, cast unmerited and unwarranted reflections upon them. And, whereas, there appeared in the St. Louis Globe-Democrat of August 10. 1901, a newspaper having a general and extensive circula- tion in the State of Arkansas and nearly all the States of the Union, an interview with the Governor of the State of Arkansas, in which it is reported that he said of the convict system in this State: "It's about as bad a condition as could exist in any State. The convicts to the number of six hundred are let to contractors for 50 cents per day each. These contractors sub-let the men to farmers or plantation managers, and they have been abused in many instances. I appeared before the grand jury in Lonoke county last week, and produced wit- nesses to show to what ends the convicts are used. In that county there is a contractoi who places the convicts under guard of negroes. He feeds the convicts on greasy pork three times a day. At the noon 454 meal they receive a little cabbage of the poorest quality, and some half- baked cornbread. They are fed in the fields, right under the broiling sun, and permitted no recreation at all during the noon hour." And, whereas, the Governor is further reported as saying that the board was composed of the Auditor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Commissioner of Mines and the Governor, and that the Audi- tor," Attorney General and Commissioner of Mines were against him on every proposition involving the management of the convicts, and that he had recently made a speech severely criticising them; that the three members of the board outvoted him and the secretary on every proposition, and thereby brought it about that they could do nothing, and that he proposed to go on the stump throughout the State and show up the three members who voted to continue such a system. And, whereas, all the contracts in respect to the employment of convicts, except one, in which the convicts are employed in construct- ing a railroad in Washington county, were entered into and put in operation while the board was composed of Ex-Governor Dan W. Jones, Auditor Clay Sloan, Secretary of State Hull, Commissioner of Mines Hill and the present Governor, Davis, then Attorney General. And, whereas, the truth is that the three members alluded to in that interview have not only earnestly supported every measure intro- duced before the board to ameliorate the condition of the convicts, but have been active in devising, suggesting and urging means directed to that end, and all the insinuations and statements to the effect that they opposed any such measures, or favored the over-working or inad- equate feeding of the convicts, or feeding them in the broiling sun or mistreating them in any way, are false, as appears by the record of this board, to say nothing of the unwarranted exaggerating of the con- dition of the system in this State, and a deliberate and malicious libel and slander upon the three members alluded to. Therefore, to the end that all who may desire to know the truth of these matters may have an opportunity to do so, I move the fol- lowing: "Resolved, that a complete copy of all the resolutions and orders in relation to the management of convicts introduced or passed, to- gether with the vote thereon, since the organization of the present board, be made and furnished the press for publication, together with 455 a copy of this resolution; and to the end that proper proceedings be taken for the annulment of the contract above mentioned between the State of Arkansas and the Arkansas Brick Manufacturing Company, in the event that it shall turn out that it was fraudulently procured or entered into, or that the signature of any member of the board thereto was obtained by fraud; that an investigation of said contract and the making thereof be had at the earliest day possible; that the said brick company be notified thereof, and be permitted to have repre- sentation by attorney for the examination and cross-examination of witnesses, and the introduction of such relevant evidence as it may deem proper; that the present Governor, Ex-Governor Jones, Ex-Secre- tary of State Alex Hull, Ex-Auditor Sloan and the Commissioner of Mines. Hill, be requested to appear before the board and testify under oath to all matters within their knowledge touching the making of the contract and the signing thereof, and that a literal memorial of all the evidence be taken and preserved," TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and Fleans Committee ON Saturday, March 21, 1903 INDEX. HON. T. C. MONROE. T. J. JACKSON. HON. W. W. WHITLEY- 459 Proceedings before the Ways and Means Committee, on the 21st day of March, 1903. HON. T. C. MONROE, being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Do you remember when Mr. McCon-" nell ceased to be superintendent? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember whether Governor Davis was opposed to him as superintendent, and if he tried to get rid of him or not? A. Yes, sir; he was opposed to him in the election and all the time after the election. Q. After he voted to annul the Arkansas Brick Company's con- tract, and the election and installment of Mr. Hogins, do you recol- lect whether Governor Davis in the board meeting said anything about there being no longer any cause for feeling between him ana the members of the board or any member of the board? A. Yes, sir. Q. What did I say to that; what did he remarK; just state what he said, piease? A. He remarked I don't remember his words now. Q. Did he state that I have no cause for any further trouble In our board, and that we will have harmony in the Aboard hereafter? A. That is about what he said; I don't know that that is the exact words that he used or not. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) There is one little matter i would like to have ome advice Mr. Monroe, Mr. Crockett and Governor Davis it is in regard to one of those charges in reference to Governor Davis' action on the State Board as Tax Commissioner; do you be- long to that board, Mr. Monroe? A. The Railroad Assessment Board? Q. Yes, sir? A. Yes, sir. Q. I want to ask if you were a member of that board at the time that Governor Davis came on to the board by reason of being elected Governor of the State? 460 A. Yes, sir. Q. I want to ask you if it is not a fact that you members of ihe board raised the assessed valuation of the Iron Mountain, the Cot- ton Belt and the Choctaw Railroads as a whole line through the State or not? A. I don't remember as to the Choctaw; I don't know as to that, but I think we raised it as to the Cotton Belt and the Iron Mountain; but to the best of my recollection there was some little difference in the Choctaw, and I am not certain as to that. I haven't got the records, the secretary has them. Q. Then you don't know as to the raise of the taxes on the Choctaw? A. No, sir; I do not. My recollection is that there was a slight raise, though. (Mr. Whitley here asks that the records be brought in.) Q. (By Mr. Holland) I want to ask Colonel Monroe relative to his testimony last night. Now, when you testified last night thai you did not hear officially about the rules being violated, what did you mean by hearing it officially? A. I haven't heard it officially? Q. What did you mean by that? A. That I had not been notified about it through any official order or in any official way; I may have heard of it on the street. Q. I will ask you if you know of the Governor and the Attorney General going out there for anything of that kind at the peniten tiary? A. No, sir; I don't know anything about it. I know they went out there to quiet a riot. Q. Do you know the cause of that riot, Col nel? A. No, sir; only some of the hands bucked they refused to work on account of not being punished under the influence of the rules, I suppose. Q. Do you know if they had spread a mosquito oar or a net over their back and whipped them so that they would not be vio- lating the rules by whipping them on the bare backs, do you know if such was the case? 4G1 A. I did not hear thaat they did. When the Governor and the Attorney General went out there they asked me to go, but I was not well and I didn't go with them, and the Governor and the At- torney General went out there; that was only a day or two after the rules had been adopted? Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Do you know what the bonded in- debtedness of these roads is? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Don't you know that it is from sixty to sixty-three thousand dollars a mile? A. No; I don't remember, Colonel. Q. Did you look into that when you were levying the assess- ment? A. No; I don't remember looking into it; we only make the assessment every other year. Q. I expect maybe you assessed them according to their state- ment; what do you recollect about anybody looking Into the ques- tion of their bonded debt on the road? A. I don't think that we did, Colonel. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Now, Colonel Monroe, I asked you what raise you made on the mile of the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf ra.i- road ? A. Well, in 1899 it was assessed at $6,500 per mile on the main track and $2,000 per mile on the side tracks, and $950 on the rolling; stock. In 1901, main track, $7,500 advanced $1,000 per mile; side- tracks, same as former assessment, and the rolling stock was as- sessed $1,500. Q. Then the main line was raised $1,000 per mile and the side- tracks just left the. same and the rolling stock was raised $550 u. mile? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, I will ask you whether or not Governor Davis made a. motion to raise the valuation of these roads? A. He did as to the Iron Mountain and the Cotton Belt, but I am not sure as to this one now. The Governor was absent on busi- ness, and he just told Mr. Crockett and me to go ahead; that what- 46J3 ever we did would be satisfactory to him; but the Iron Mountain and the Cotton^ Belt and a road up here at Fayetteville were as- sessed I presume they were assessed when he was present; and I know we assessed four other roads. Q. Now, I will ask you if it is not a fact that you have voted as a unit on the raise of the assessments on the valuation of these roads? A. Yes, sir. Q. There was no dissenting vote? A. No, sir. Q. None at all? A. No, sir. Q. Then the assessments was brought up before that board and was voted on and you voted for it as a unit, and raised the assessed valuation on the main line $1,000 per mile? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Were not the railroads worth more than $1,000 per mile above what they were worth per nine in 1901? From 1901 to 1902? A. According to the way they were reported by the company we thought so. They filed a statement of their value, then we based our assessment on their statement as compared with the indebted- ness on the road in a general way. Q. And is their rolling stock worth more than $500 per mile in 1901 than it was in 1899? A. Well, I presume so, or we wouldn't have raised it that much. Q. You governed yourselves altogether by the road's report? A. Yes, sir; principally. Q. You did not look into it to see what the real value of it was, independent of their report you did not see about their bonded In- debtedness per mile? You did not see what that was? A. No, sir: I don't remember that we did. Q. (By Mr. Stockard) This matter of requiring the railroads to pay up their old assessments from years back back assess- ments has that ever come up in your meetn-c? 463 A. No, sir; never since I have been a member of the board. T. J. JACKSON, on oath, being first duly sworn, deposes anu testifies as follows; Having been called by Mr. Jacobson, he is interrogated as fol- lows by him: Q. Mr. Jackson, you may please state your business what business you are engaged in? A. Furniture and carpet business. Q. Will you kindly make a statement to the committee here relative to the matter to the charge against the Governor that has been talked about and printed in the papers? A. There is not much of a statement to make about it. I sent the Governor a Christmas present a chair; that is all there is to it. Q. Well, has Governor Davis been a customer of yours? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you state about the amount of business that he has transacted with your firm for the furnishing of his residence during the last year? A. I can't say exactly, because I haven't examined the books. Q. Approximate it. A. Well, from three to five hundred dollars, that I should think. Q. Had that much business with your firm for his residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. And at Christmas you simply sent him a chair as you have have already stated? A. Yes, sir; just a little appreciation, that is all. Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Did you send it to him on Christmas day? A. No, sir; a day or two before Christmas; about the 22d or the 23d day of December; I am not sure. Q. Well, you had just before that furnished some charitable in- stitution with quite a considerable bill, hadn't you? A. Yes, sir; about a month or two before that. Q. A bill for which there was no appropriation? A. Yes, sir. 464 - - Q. How much did that bill amount to? A. Why, the total of it was something less than $4,000 $3,800, I think. Q. And you depended upon his recommending to the legisla- ture that it be paid, didn't you? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Well, you knew when you furnished it that there was no ap- propriation to pay it, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You expected your pay, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Expected to get paid for that furniture? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, now, didn't you expect him to recommend the appro- priation? A. No, sir. Q. How did you expect that it would be brought to the atten- tion of the General Assembly, if he didn't? A. Well, there was several ways it could be brought to their attention. Q. Did you bring it to their attention? A. I did not, but had it done. Q. It has been brought to their attention, has it not? A. Yes, sir. Q. By whom? A. Dr. Butler. Q. Who is Dr. Butler? A. He is one of the representatives, I believe. Q. But before that, it was brought to their attention by the Governor in his message, wasn't it? A. No, sir; I did not know that it was. I got Dr. Butler, of the House, to bring it up. Q. Do you state now to this committee that you never saw the Governor before you agreed to furnish that bill? A. I do so, and I never saw him after that until probably nearly two months afterwards. 465-- Q. When was it that you sold this bill? A. Well, the beginning of the fall cool weather. I think .t was about the latter part of November. I am not certain about the time, but 1 think it was in November some time. Q. Before you sold that bill how long had it been since you had seen the Governor? A. . I don't think I had seen him to speak with him for six months before that. Q. You had not seen him for about six months before this? A. I don't think I had; it had been several months. I would not state positively about when it was. Q. Did you see him between the time of the furnishing of your bill and the convening of the General Assembly and the delivery oi iais message? A. No, sir. Q. Did you not state a short time ago in the office of Judge Joe House, in the presence of Dr. Waters, that the amount of that bill was $5,000? A. I did not state that positively, because I did not know that it was. I did not have the account and I could not make such a statement as that. Q. What did you state in Judge House's office how did you aappen to be talking about it? A. I don't remember really, Colonel. I don't remember that I was talking about it. I may have been in a casual way as one ac luaintance would to another. Q. Well, now did you not on the same day that you sent the Grovernor that chair send a cushioned lounge to Mr. J. H. Page, the secretary of the Board of Charities? A. On the same day? Q. Yes, sir? A. I can't say that I did the same day; I did send him one. Q. Well, had Page been buying from you on his individual ac count, too? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much had he bought on his personal account? 460 A. I can't say positively. . Q. Mr. Jackson, how did it happen that you sent those presents on account of the personal transactions of the Governor their in- dividual account, that you just happened to send the presents until just after you had furnished this charitable institution under the contract with them? A. I do not quite understand your question? Q. I say if you sent these presents on account of the personal dealings with them on their individual account, how did it happen that you waited for the sending of them until just after you had supplied the charitable institution under that contract with them? A. My reason for waiting until that time was because that was an appropriate time for gifts. Q. How long was it before that since either one of them had bought anything from you on their personal account? A. 1. can't say positively as to that. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) Is it the custom of your house to give friends presents who patronize you generally? A. It is not actually a custom, but we do it once in a while. Q. Were these two parties the only parties that you have con- tributed presents to? Q. (By Colonel Murphy) Did you last Christmas give any of A. No, sir; not by any means. your friends and your customers any presents if you did, name them? A. I. did make some presents, but I would have to have a little time to think who they were. Q. Well, Mr. Jackson, all I want is just for you to name the parties to whom you made presents that you gave presents to last Christmas? A. I made Mr. Wolford a present. Q. Who is he? A. Mr. L. B. Wolford, of the Iron Mountain shops. I have made him a present for the last two or three Christmases. Q. What was the Christmas present that you gave him last Ckrtelnias? 467 A. A mirror. That is, a hat rack; something I thought he needed, and would appreciate about as much as anything in the way of a small present. Q. Now any others last Christmas? Just name them? A. I don't think of any others just at this time, Colonel. I- may have made others, and I reckon there are others, but 1 can't think of them just now. We have about fifteen hundred custo- mers on our books and I can't carry all of their names in my head. Q. Did you ever make either Page or Davis a present before that? A. No, sir. Q. How long had you known Davis? A. I presume about two years. Q. Did he trade with you the year before? A. Yes, sir. Q. You didn't give .him a present that Christmas, the Christmas before, did you? A. I presume I did not; I did not know him well enough. Q. How long have you known Mr. Page? A. About the same length of time. Q. Did he trade with you personally before? A. Yes, sir; the year before. Q. 1901, you mean? A. The year before. I don't think he had traded any with me before the year before last. Q. (By Mr. Jacobson) Mr. Jackson, I want to ask you to ex- plain to this committee the circumstances attending the selection of this furniture while there was no appropriation to pay for it what purpose it was for, and how it was furnished? A. Well, Mr. Page came up there,' and we were talking and he said the new building at the Deaf Mute was about completed, or It was completed, and that they needed some furniture for it; that they could not use until it was furnished and that there was no appropriation to buy furniture, and they wanted to use It, but unless it was furnished they could not, and I agreed to let them have it, provided we could agree on the prices; and we went through and 483 picked out what he wanted, and kept on until we agreed on the price, and he gave me the order for it. Q. That was for the new Deaf Mute building? A. Yes, sir. Q. And as a matter of fact, they could not use the building un- til it was furnished? A. I don't think so, but I don't see how it could be used. Q. How long was that before the legislature met? A. Well, that was in November. Q. The building would have had to remain useless until the legislature met, some four or five months, wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You just took it for granted that the State would pay you for it, didn't you? A. Yes, sir; I did. I took it for granted that when tne legisla- ture met it would make an appropriation all right I had no fear that I would lose it, and haven't yet. Q. Mr. Jackson, I will ask you if in the purchase of that furni- ture if the State got the best bargain it could get? A. That is what it did. Q. Who was it made the purchase? A. The Purchasing Agent. I want to say now, in justice to myself, that I never knew of Governor Davis in the transaction. I never knew that he had anything to do with it. Q. (By Mr. Funk) Mr. Jackson, what was the amount of the bill that you sold to Mr. Page? A. We never sold Mr. Page any great amount at any one time. He has made several purchases of us. Q. You testified that you gave him a couch for a present? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did you ever make such a present as that to other people that buy of you Christmas presents? A. I never give presents to people for buying of us; it is simply more or less for a person's influence causing other people to come to us and ?>uy things. It is not every customer that we do so. Of 469 course we appreciate their trade, that is the reason we make the present. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) What time, or where did you have the entire transaction for the sale of that property to the Deaf Mute? A. Mr. Page and Mrs. Yates and Professor Yates were in sev- eral times. Q. Who is Mrs. Yates? A. She is the matron at the Deaf Mute, I believe. Q. And is Professor Yates the superintendent? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did any other member of the Board of Charities have any- thing to do with that transaction? A. I don't know of any other member that had. Mr. Barker was there once, I believe, and Mr. Gordon once or twice. Q. Who were there when you completed the negotiations? A. Well, I think Mr. Page and Mrs. Yates. Mr. Page and I agreed on the prices and Mrs. Yates helped me select the furniture. Q. Did Mr. Page represent to you that it would be paid for by the State of Arkansas or did any one else? A. No, sir. Q. You simply sold it without any guarantee that it would be paid for? A. He told me that the Board of Charities had recommended that the legislature appropriate $4,000 for the furnishing of the Deaf Mute. Q. Did you examine the records of the Board of Charities to see whether that statement made by Mr. Page was true or not? A. No, sir; I had enough confidence in him to believe it with- out examining the records. Q. You just went on and sold him this large bill of furniture without any guarantee that you would get your money? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. McCain) When did you talk to Mr. Whitley about this matter, Mr. Jackson? A. Yesterday. Q. Where? A. In the House of Representatives. Q. How did the conversation come up? A. Mr. Whitley was at my store yesterday morning asking for me, and so I came down? Q. Why did he want to see you? A. I don't know. The bookkeeper told me he had been there. Q. What did the bookkeeper say he wanted? A. I think he said he was there inquiring for Busby. Q. That is, Mr. Whitley was? A. Yes, sir. Q. Inquiring for Busby? A. Yes, sir; and I was down here in the House of Representa- tives; I did not come here to see him, however, and I asked where Mr. Whitley was and I went up to him and introduced myself; in the conversation he asked me a few questions about this transaction and I told him what I have stated here to you today. Q. That is what you stated to Mr. Whitley? A. Yes, sir. I think that was just about the same as I told him. Q. Where was that? A. In the House of Representatives. Q. When was it? A. I don't know exactly whether it was just before adjourn- ment for dinner or just after that I got there. Q. How long did you talk to him? A. About five minutes. Q. How did you get acquainted? Was he acquainted with you? A. I don't know whether he was or not. Q. What did you talk about? A. He asked me about these presents and I told him; some- thing like that, I believe. Q. What did you tell him? A. I told him about the same thing as I have told you here. Q. What did you tell him? A. What I have told the committee is just what I told him. Q. In detail? 471 A. Yes, sir. Q. And in live minutes? A. Yes, sir; about five minutes. I may not have told him in the same words but in substance it was the same thing. Q. Have .you told any other member of the committee about it? A. Nobody except the chairman. Q. Have you talked with anybody else about it? A. No, sir. Q. Have you seen Busby lately? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know where he is? A. Mr. Whitley told me where he was, but I don t kuow where he is personally. Q. You say that Mr. Whitley informed you where Mr. Busby was? A. Yes, sir; he told me; that is all I know about it. Q. Now, is it not a fact that you know from general informa- tion that a subpoena has been issued for Mr. Busby and placed in the hands of the sheriff and that they have not been able to find Uim? A. It is not a fact that I know it has been done, but I have heard it mentioned here in the committee. Q. And you don't know here he is except from what Mr. Whitley told you? A. Yes, sir; that is all I know about it. Q. Where did he say he was? A. The fact of the business is he told me that somebody told him that he was at Black's saloon, or that he was there the other day. Q. That is what Mr. Whitley told you; did he tell you how he got that information? A. No, sir; he did not. MR. W. W. WHITLEY, being first duly sworn by the chairman, deposes and testifies as follows: I desire to make this statement as a matter of personal privi- lege. Over in the Supreme Court room the other night the chair- 472 said that there was a subpoena out for this man Busby; that Busby had been hiding out and could not be found, leaving the in- ference to be drawn that he is being hid out and kept out of the reach of the officers at the instance of Governor Davis. I think that was a very unjust statement or insinuation for the chairman of an investigating committee to make. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Did anybody but you draw that infer- ence? A. That was the statement that you made. That this man had been hiding out or was being hid out Q. Please answer my question? A. I drew it, and nobody else could not help but draw it. Q. I think not. A. But here is what I wanted to state: If this was a matter to make an impression upon the spectators and the committee. I don't believe that there had been a diligent effort made to secure this man Busby's appearance before the committee, and I want to assert here that I believe it can be proved that this man Busby was right on Main street every day and could be found easily. Now, if it had not been for the extreme statement of the chairman of this committee, I should not have gone up there to make inquiry about this matter, but I thought the statement unjust and the treatment unfair, and so I went to see if this man Busby could oe found, and whether that was for the purpose of making an impres- sion upon this committee or not and the spectators; if so, then it was a very unjust advantage to be taken. And after I had found out that Mr. Jackson had been before this committee every night except two or three, ready to testify, at the instance of the parties prosecuting this case, and that they had failed to call on him, that was another reason for raising my suspicions, if they were wanting to examine into this charge. That is my statement, and that is my reasons for doing so. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Mr. Whitley, I will ask you a few questions. Were you not aware that there was a subpoena out for Mr. Busby? A. Yes, sir. 473 Q. Did you notify me or any of the committee where to find him? A. Yes, sir. Q. When did you tell me about it? A. I went up to Mr. Jackson's store and the bookkeeper told me where I could find Mr. Busby. That he was there every day. Q. Did you report that to the committee? A. I did. Q. When? A. Last night before the committee opened to go into tho ex- amination of this matter. Q. What time did you find out his whereabouts? A. Yesterday about noon. Q. Then you had all day after that and yet you never notified the chairman of that committee where he could be found; now don't you think that was rather an injustice? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. Do you not call your conduct in that an injustice? A. No, sir. Q. You did not tell me until last night and yet you had nearly all day in which to notify me. A. I desire to decline to answer your catechisms. I will an- swer your question just the way I want to answer it. Q. You are a witness here now, and stand the same as any other witness, and I intend to handle you the same way. You have stated that Busby was on the Main street every day and could be found there at the saloon every aay; now was he there when you called? A. No, sir; he was not in then, not just at that time. Q. But you have stated that he was there every day and could be easily found? A. Yes, and I told you yesterday where he could be found, but the subpoena has not been served on him. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Did you say, Mr. Whitley, that Mr. Jack son was subpoenaed at our request? A. I said he was here to testify in this case? 474- Q. How do you know it? A. I was told so. Q. Who told you? A. He told me that he had been here every night except two or three. Q. Oh, yes, and yet you said that he was one of our witnesses? A. Well, this charge involved him and the Governor, and he was likely to be your best witness. Q. How did you know that he was one of our witnesses? Did you know what Busby is going to testify to? A. No, sir. Q. Did you know what Busby was going to testify to? A. No, sir; I never saw Busby in my life. Q. And yet you state that Jackson was one of our best wit- nesses? A. I didn't know that he was one of your witnesses. I under- stood that he was. Q. Well, then, why did you state a moment ago that he was our best witness? A. I just naturally considered that he was the man to know more about it than any one else, as he was the man charged with giving the gifts. Q. Mr. Whitley, is it not a fact that you have been present at the actions- of this committee from time to time? A. Yes, sir. . Q. And is it not a fact that the deputy sheriff is employed by this committee and under the control of the committee and not un der our control at all? A. What are they serving the committee for, then? Q. I am just asking you that? A. They are at the disposal of the committee, or they would not be here. Q. Don't the committee issue the subpoenaes and place them in the hands of the deputy sheriffs? A. Yes/ sir. 475 Q. And you are a member of the committee and see those sub- poenaes. Now, was Jackson ever subpoenaed by this committee? A. I believe he was, as he was the man you wanted. Q. Then can you look at the subpoenaes you have access to them, and see whether he has ever been subpoenaed or not, or have I or Colonel Murphy requested the committee to subpoena Mr. Jack son before this committee (Mr. Stockard rises to a question of relevancy of the questions being propounded to the witness.) Q. Is it not a fact that you never did tell Colonel Murphy or the members of the committee about Busby's whereabouts until last night at the meeting? A. I never had the opportunity? Q. And I believe you stated that you did not notify the chair- man of his whereabouts until last night? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Mr. Whitley, you say that you have not seen Mr. Busby? A. No, sir. Q. How did you know he was there at Black's saloon how did you know where he was? A. The bookkeeper at Rhodes, Haverty & Jackson's told me that he was there, and I went up there to see him, but he was out just at that time. Q. Well, you don't know of your own knowledge that he has been walking the streets of Little Rock every day? A. No, sir; but the barkeeper told me that he had been there every day. Q. Did you see the bartender? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he wasn't there when you were there, was he? A. No, sir. Mr. Merriman reads the following: "State of Arkansas, County of Pulaski. I have this 16th day of March, 1903, duly served the within subpoena by reading and explaining the contents of the same to the within named persons, Charles Jacobson, John H. - 476 Page, A. Brizzolara, J. M. McLoud, T. L. Powell, Frank Deshon, 11. W. Dougherty, Judge - ; R. B. Hogins and Charles Watkins, And have diligently searched but was unable to find B. B. Jett, J. G. Wol , Z. D. Busby, Louis Altheimer, in said county, as herein commanded. Fred Schader, Sheriff. "By Barney Stiel, Deputy. "State of Arkansas County of Pulaski. "I have this the 17th day of March, 1903, duly served the within subpoena by reading and explaining the contents of the same to the within named persons: Frank Deshon, with his books, T. L. Powell, A. D. Hayes, Eugene Jett, L. Altheimer, and have diligently searched but was unable to find Z. D. Busby in said county as herein commanded. Fred Schader, Sheriff. "By Barney Steil, Deputy." I desire to state to the committee that it was on these returns on these subpoenaes to the committee that Mr. Busby could not be found. I am satisfied that the sheriff has made every effort to find him, but he has failed to do so, and I do not think there is any prejudice in the matter on the part of any member of the commit- tee. Q. (By Mr. McCain of Mr. Whitley) How often have you seen Governor Davis in the last four days, and been in his office and talked to him? A. I have been in his office, not especially to see him, I don't .{mow how many times, but three or four times perhaps; I don't go in there for the purpose of seeing him every time i go in there, though. Q. What do you go in there for, then? A. I go in there for social purposes, such as I go in the othei offices for. I have been in other offices besides his. Q. Have you been in the Attorney General's office? A. No, sir; I have not. Q. Is he not just as sociable as Governor Davis? A. That has nothing to do with it nothing to do with this case at all, sir. Q. Don't you know that you have gone repeatedly to Governoi 477 Davis, Mr. Whitley, and told him about the witnesses subpoenaed by this committee either Governor Davis or Charles Jacobson haven't you told them at various times when there was a subpoena out for various witnesses? A. I never told him that there was a subpoena for any living witness no, sir; I have not talked with him about witnesses. Q. Didn't you ever tell him that there was certain witnesses called ? A. No, sir; I never told him that there was certain witnesses called to come before the committee? Q. What did you tell him about that? A. Nothing. Q. Didn't you, now, from time to time, during the progress of this examination, ascertain the witnesses that were to be here and tell him? And what they would swear to? A. No, sir; I never made any inquiry. Q. And about certain questions, certain information to elicit from the witnesses? A. No, sir; I never made any inquiry. Q. Well, how did you get that information about the using of that mosquito bar when they whipped the convicts to elude a viola- tion of the law? A. That question was handed to me last night on a slip of pa- per by some member of the committee? Q. Who handed it to you? A. I believe Mr. Funk; I am not sure Q. Whose handwriting was it in? A. Why, I don't know just whose handwriting it was in. I don't remember now. (Mr. Stockard objects to any further questioning along this line, the objections are sustained by the chair. The chairman makes a statement to the committee in regard to the questions that was handed in on a slip of paper and above referred to.) TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE Ways and .Means Committee ON Monday, March 23, 1903 INDEX. fc P. J. CARPENTER. J. W. McLOUD. CHARLES JACOBSON 481 Proceedings before the Ways and Means Committee on the 23d day of March, 1903. P. J. CARPENTER, on oath, being first by me duly sworn, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. Carpenter, what is your name? A. F. J. Carpenter. Q. You reside at Arkadelphia, Ark.? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you seen the statement of Dr. Williams in the Arkan- sas Gazette and other papers as to what you told in regard to the telephone message that Governor Davis sent you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did Governor Davis send you a telephone message after the primary election of last year in regard to Clark County giong for Clark? A. Yes, sir. Q. Tell the committee what the telephone message was as near as you can remember it, and when? A. I disremember just what day it was, but it was I believe the primaries were on Saturday and it must have been on Monday afternoon I was out of town and I came home on Monday, and the long distance 'phone called, or rather I was called up by the long distance telephone exchange, and I went down and called up and asked who it was, and they said it was Governor Davis, and then I told them to call Governor Davis, and he answered, and about what Dr. Williams stated the other day was practically the message from Governor Davis. Q. Well, now just tell the committe what the Governor said just as near as you can remember it? A. He asked me how the vote of Clark County was and I told him that there was a couple of townships to hear from, but the estimate would be about 250 for Jones, and I could say overwhelm- ingly for him, I believed, and he said he cared nothing about it going for him, but he would like to have the county voted for Clark, or go for Clark. Testimony- 16 -482 Q. What else did he say about your carrying it for Clark? Well, there was some jesting jesting just about first one thing and then another, and he says, can't you count the county for Gov- ernor Clark, or can't you that may be wrong can't you figure the county for Clark? Q. Anything else? A. I told him I could not. There was two townships to hear from but the results from either of them wouldn't make any change; that was to say that the two townships to hear from would not practically change the 250 that was voted for Jones. Q. What did he reply to that? A. Well, there was some more jesting. I disremember now just exactly what the words were. Q. Didn't he tell you that he was Governor of the State and it' you caught up with that I will see (Question objected to and objections sustained.)) Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Mr. Carpenter, just go on now and tell the conversation that occurred? A. He said that he was Governor and if there was anything well, that he was Governor, which I understood Q. (By Governor Davis) No matter what you understood, just answer the question; just as I told you? A. Well, you said you was Governor. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Is that all? What did you under- stand (Governor Davis objects to the witness answering as to what DO understood.) Q. Mr. Carpenter, you have been asked to several times to state the conversation. Now is there anything else? A. (No answer.) Q. TBy Mr. McCain) I will ask you, Mr. Carpenter, if the Gov- ernor did not use some profane language over the telephone when he telephoned you? (Governor Davis objects to the question and his objections are sustained by the chairman.) Q". Didn't the Governor use profane language? 483 (Objected to by Governor Davis and objections sustained by the chairman.) Q. I want to ask you if you did not tell Dr. Williams that you never heard any more profane language than the Governor used over the telephone? (Governor Davis objects to the question; objections sustained by the chairman, and exceptions saved.) Q. Didn't the Governor telephone you this message before the returns of Clark County was in in full A. There was two townships to hear from. Q. And that his statements in that message were as profane language as (Governor Davis objects to the question and objections are sustained by the chairman.) Q. Well, anyway, is it not a fact that Governor Davis tele- phoned you, in whatever manner it was, that he wanted you to carry the county for Clark? A. He wanted me to carry the county for Clark. Q. The vote had already been cast, and the returns were all in but from fwo townships? A. No, sir, not all in; two townships to hear from. Q. And at that time he stated to you that he was Governor of the State? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Did he say anything else? A. Well, I am not sure just what the conversation was, Judge. Q. You seem to be sure about part of it; was there anything else at all that you remember that he said? A. I don't remember anything else, but if my attention was called to it I might remember it. Q. (By Governor Davis) Now, Falve, are you not mistaken about that being Monday; wasn't it Saturday night after the pri- maries that I had that talk with you ; may you not be mistaken about that? A. I think it was Monday, Governor. 484 Q. You think it was Monday night? A~. Yes, sir, because we couldn't have gotten the returns frora all of the townships, and all but two townships had been heard from. Q. Well, may you not be mistaken; now wasn't it Saturday night about nine o'clock Saturday night after the election? A. No. sir. Q. You were not for Clark, were you? A. No. sir. Q. You were a pronounced Jones man? A. Yes, sir. Q. I understood that you were a Jones man and you. under- stood that I knew you were in fact everybody down there un- derstood that? A. Yes, sir. Q. That you were a pronounced Jones man? A. Down there did; yes, sir. Q. I called you up over the telephone, now Mr. Carpenter. didn't I, and asked you how the vote was and you said it was for Jones about 250? A. Yes, sir. Q. Didn't I say to you, Mr. Carpenter, isn't there any way to figure the county for Clark, and you said you didn't think that there was? Now wasn't that about the substance of what I said to you? A. Well, now let us get it right. Q. All right; now didn't I say: is there any way to figure it for Clark to figure that county for Clark and you said you didn't think there was because there was only two townships to hear from and they wouldn't make much difference? A. That is practically the sense of it. Q. Well, that is what I mean. A. It is riot just exactly as I heard it, though. Q. Well, didn't I ask you in substance, is there any way to figure the county for Clark? A. Yes, sir; that is about the substance of it and Q. That is about the substance of it, isn't it? 485 - A. Yes, sir, and I told you that it couldn't be, because there wasn't but two townships to hear from and they wouldn't make much of a change in the result. Q. And didn't I tell you that I was doubtless elected Governor, or that I was the Governor yet, or that I was elected Governor and was the Governor yet the substance of the thing? A. Well, bring the communication around right Governor and tell it according to how we had it; I have stated it here. Q. That is what I am trying to do. Now I told you, I am doubtless elected Governor and I am Governor yet? A. You stated that you was Governor. Q. Didn't I tell you since I had carried Clark County I was Governor yet? A. I understood you to say that you were Governor. Q. And that was all there was to it? A. Yes, sir. (The witness here requests that his testimony be read over to him, which is accordingly done.) Q. (By Mr. McCain) Did you know that it was Governor Davis that was talking over the telephone to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you recognize the Governor's voice when he gave you that message over the 'phone? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you know it? A. I think I am familiar with his voice. I think I am familiar enough with his speech to recognize his voice. Q. You are positive that it was him that telephoned to you? A. Well, I am just as positive as could be not to be looking him right in the face. Q. (By Mr. Merriman) Mr. Carpenter, have you told all that occurred in that conversation? A. I can't tell, Judge, whether I have or not. Q. Is there any means of your ascertaining whether you have or not? ~ 486 A. There is; if you would call my attention to anything that might have passed over the 'phone I might, but I disremember it at present. There may have been something else. Q. You stated, Mr. Carpenter, that the published report in the papers of the statement made by Dr. Williams was substantially the facts? A. Practically correct. Q. Now, then, you saw that wasn't your attention called tc the conversation that ocurred? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you testified everything that you know in regard to this conversation, after having your attention called to it by that statement? A. Yes, sir, all that I know now. I will state if there is any- thing left out of my testimony of that conversation I don't remember it at present. Q. When the message came "I am Governor" was there any- thing else said with that? A. I don't remember that there was. Q. You are not sure that there was not? A. No, sir. Q. (By Mr. Whitley) You stated that there was a little jest- ing about this, did you, Mr. Carpenter I believe you stated that there was some jesting? A. Yes, sir. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. Whitley asked you if this was jesting; did you understand the entire conversation to be jesting? A. No, sir. Q. What part of it did you understand as jesting? A. There was some talk that was had that I can't just recall but it was in a kind of foolish I don't know what well, I don'r know how to express it. Q. Well, what part of it now? A. I regarded it as ridiculing me for voting for Jones. Q. What part of that particular message was that? 487 A. When I told him that the vote was for Jones and not for Clark. I can't remember just what it was, but jesting was some- thing along that way. Q. Did you communicate with Mr. Whitley or Mr. Jackson about coming up here? A. I never seen Mr. Whitley that I know of in my life. Q. Then it is not a fact that Governor Davis and Mr. Jacobson got you to come up here? A. No, sir; there was a man told me last night about nine o'clock that I better come? Q. That the best thing for you to do would be to come up here? A. Yes, sir. Q. And. you came? A. Yes, sir; I didn't particularly care about it at all, but I hated to be under arrest in Arkansas. Q. (By Mr. ^Whitley) Do you remember ever having a conver- sation with Fallen, and Ed and Hugh Jones at the Smoker Mercan- tile Company's store perhaps along about the 15th of this month in reference to the charges published in these papers in this con- nection ? A. No, sir; I do not. Q. You don't remember having any conversation there or ever making any statement about it? A. Not that I remember; I may have done it. Q. Do you hemember telling G. W. Fallen or E. and Hugh Jones that Governor Davis had told you in reference to the matters alleged in those charges A. No, sir; I never stated that. That would have been a lie if I did. I am not in the habit of telling those things. J. M. McLOUD, being recalled, deposes and testifies as follows: Q. (By Mr. McCain) Mr. McLoud, I believe you have been sworn in this case before? A. Yes, sir. Q. And I believe that you testified about the car that went to 488 Western Texas over the Choctaw. Oklahoma & Gulf with the hunt- ing party? A. Yes, sir. Q. I just want to ask you one thing about that; how was the expenses of that trip charged up between the various offices oi your road, do you know? A. No expense to it that I know of. Q. Didn't you charge it up then on the books of the company at all? A. No, sir. Q. What would be the entry on the books? A. Wouldn't be any at all. Q. Now, Mr. McLoud. I want to ask you if it is not a fact that Governor Davis and his family preceeding the trip in Septem- ber on the hunting trip, had a car over the Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Railroad, or whatever you styled your road at that time, to go over the Choctaw to Howe, I. T., and from there over the P. G. to Siloam Springs? A. That is a matter I know nothing about at all. Q. What was your understanding about it? A. My understanding about it was (Governor Davis objects to the witness testifying as to what he just understands.) Q. To transfer some household goods, ice, a horse and buggy and some things over the Choctaw to Howe, and from there over the P. & G. to Siloam Springs? A. I don't know anything about that whatever. I think Gov- ernor Davis' family was up there, and he may have shipped some goods up there, but I don't anything about it. I wasn't in the country at all. Q. Don't the expense books of your office show that the bill was presented for that car for $20 and that it was paid out of the expense account of your department? A. No, sir. I think not. Q. They wfll not? 489 A. No, sir. they will not. Q. You never heard of it at all? A. I know nothing whatever about it. Q. Who was running your office at that time? A. Wasn't anybody, and everybody, I guess, more or less. I was in Colorado. Q. Mr. Pierce and Mr. Busby? A. No, sir; they were not running my office; they were in their departments and had their kind of work to da. Q. Who did you have in charge of it while you were gone? A. I can't tell you, sir. Q. Well, when you went off and left it didn't you leave any- body in charge of it? A. I left my clerks there. CHARLES JACOBSON, being recalled by Governor Davis, de- poses and testifies as follows: Q. (By Governor Davis) Mr. Jacobson, I just want to ask you whether it is true or not that you ever paid my private resi- dence 'phone rent and your residence telephone rent out of the contingent fund? A. It is not true. Q. How did you pay it? A. I paid for your residence telephone by a cehck on your bank account and I paid for mine by actual money. Q. Who did you pay it to for these nine months? A. Paid it to the collector for the telephone company. Q. For these nine months in question? A. Yes, sir. Q. You paid it to the collector, whoever he was? A. Yes, sir. Q. I will ask you when the contingent fund expired? A. Some time during the month of October or November last. Q. How has the long distance telephone messages and my private telephone been paid for since that time? A. By money cash. 490 Q. Whose cash? A. Yours. Q. How? A. Well, by check, as I remember. Q. On which bank? A. On Worthen's Bank. One check was for sixteen something and one for thirteen something, and I remember paying it a few times by cash. Q. Now is it not a fact that the telephone messages that have been to my father or my wife were personal matters and that they were not proper to be charged to the contingent fund, and have I more than paid for what they would amount to since my contingent Cund ran out? A. I can't say how much of your personal matters went into the bills that were paid out of the contingent fund, that is to say how much was paid out of the contingent fund for your personal matters. I can't even tell just how much the telephone bills have been for the State purposes since the contingent fund expired that [ have paid to the telephone company for that is long distance telephone out of your private funds, but I think it would be ten or twelve dollars. It is that much, and I don't know just how much. Q. Was there any mention of that amount made in the defi- ciency appropiration bill? A. No, sir. Q. Did I tell you not to put it in? A. No, s4r. Did you tell me to; no sir, you never said anything to me about it, and I said nothing to Mr. Ginnochio about it when he was around getting up the deficiency list. You didn't tell me not to, but I didn't put it in, for I think you had told me when the contingent fund expired to pay the bills out of your funds. Q. (By Mr. - ) The Governor asked you to pay ill of the bills from that time on out of his own funds? A. Yes, sir, for the long distance bills. Q. When was it that Mr. Ginnochio come to see you about it? A. About three or four weeks ago. 491 Q. Since this investigation has started? A. I think it was. Q. Since this investigation was started A. I think he came around and asked me to make out what we wanted in uie regular appropriation and I made up the list and gave it to him. Q. You see the checks drawn by the Governor's office and what they are drawn for? A. I draw them. Q. What other checks did you draw besides these? A. I sign all of them. Governor Davis has never signed a "-heck since he has been in the Governor's office I mean about these maters of paying the bills. Q. What other checks have you drawn for the payment of bills? A. I don't remember. I did not even remember of drawing these. Q. Then you looked for these? A. Yes, sir; I found three of these. Q. Did you find any more? A. No, sir, because there is some of the checks missing, they have gotten out of the office. Q. But you did find these? A. Yes, sir. Q. You are positive, Mr. Jacobson, that these were the only two that you could find these three? A. I remember those. Q. (By Governor Davis) Now, as a matter of fact, haven't you paid out of my funds since the contingent fund was exhausted for the credit of the State and for the benefit of the State between sixty and seventy dollars? A. The telephone company's records show that I have sent them money every month, I think. Q. (By Mr. McCain) Since what time? A. Since soon after October November. Q. Last year? A. Yes, sir, since the time the contingent fund was exhausted, and there has not been any money put into the contingent fund. I can also state (Mr. Crutcher here makes a motion to adjourn and not to hear any more on this investigation.) (Governor Davis states to the committe that he has no more wit- nesses to introduce.) (Mr. McCain states that he wants to introduce Mr. Geo. W. Jacks and clerks in Mr. McLoud's office.) Mr. Crutcher's motion being put, was carried I, B. L. Endicott, the official stenographer of the Ways and Means Committee, hereby certify that I have compared the fore- going printed pages of the testimony of witnesses adduced before the aforesaid committee with the original transcript thereof as transcribed from my stenographic notes, and find the same to be a true and correct copy of same. Signed this the 16th day of April, 1903, at Little Rock, Ark. E. L. ENDICOTT.