-. n :>. r.'-'jH: .!Sf. n 'W'.-'rf.- 
 
 REESE LIBRARY 
 
 OF THE 
 
 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. 
 
 Deceived APP 18 1*P4 , 189 . 
 
 ^Accessions No.J 3 31T3 Class 
 
 U-U-TI-U-u-UTrJl 1 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSION. 
 
 FIRST REPORT. 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 
 
 TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 COMMISSIONERS 
 
 APPOINTED TO INQUIRE WHETHER ANY AND WHAT SPECIAL 
 
 MEANS MAY BE REQUISITE FOR THE IMPROVEMENT 
 
 OF THE HEALTH OF THE METROPOLIS. 
 
 froh) % oi)5oi) edifioi), by ol^eh of f()e 0oii)h)0i7 
 
 NEW YORK : 
 
 McSPEDON & BAKER, PRINTERS TO THE COMMON COUNCIL. 
 
 1852. 
 

INDEX OF NAMES OF WITNESSES. 
 
 PAdE 
 
 Austin, Henry, Esq., C.E. - . 281 
 
 Bague, Captain, R,N. - - 176 
 
 Baker, William, Esq., jun. - . 403 
 
 Beek, James, Mr. ..... 333 
 
 Billing, J., Esq. - 438 
 
 Bowie, R., Esq., (first part) 5 
 
 Ditto (second part) - 21 
 
 Cowie, Rev, Morgan, M.A. - - 363 
 
 Cresy, Edward, Esq. - - 314 
 
 Doubleday, E., Esq. 51 
 
 Drew, Beriah, Esq. - >^I*3:SE Ttp * " ^ 2 
 
 French, J., Esq. - ^9^ 50 
 
 Gurwood, Rev. John, City Mission '- . ^RfiJ'pV 1 i ^ 
 
 Gwilt, Joseph, Esq. 226 
 
 Hooper, Robert Little, Esq. - 34 
 
 Hall, Col, R.E. - 427 
 
 Hertslett, Lewis Cooke, Esq. 71 
 
 I'Anson, Edward, Mr. - 245 
 
 Leadam, Thomas Robinson, Esq. - 46 
 
 Musgrove, Alderman - - 371 
 
 Murdoch, Dr. 40 
 
 Newman, John, Mr. ...... 263 
 
 Phillips, Sir George, Bt., M.P, - 178 
 
 Phillips, John, Mr. C.E - 105 
 
 Roe, John, Mr. 183 
 
 Ditto 191 
 
 Ditto - - 361 
 
 Ranger, William, Esq., C.E. 349 
 
 Simpson, William, Esq. - 47 
 
 Skirving, John, Esq. - - 444 
 
 Smith, C. A., Esq. - 420 
 
 Stable, D. H., Esq. 183 
 
 Tables Cholera and Fever I. II. III. IV. - - 68-71 
 
 Taylor, Thomas, Esq. - 63 
 
 Unwin, John W., Eeq, 371 
 
 Wagstaffe, Matthew F., Esq. - 42 
 
 Wilson, G., Esq. - 182 
 
 Wright, John, Esq., M.D. - - 65 
 
 Yolland, Captain W., R.E. - - 429 
 
if IK 
 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 
 
 TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 
 
 No. 1. 
 
 R. BOWIE, ESQ., SURGEON. 
 (First Part.) 
 
 WHERE were you practising at the time that the cholera broke out in 
 the metropolis in 1832 ? In Burr street, East Smithfield. 
 
 That is close to the river side ; what description of places and popu- 
 lation had you to attend to within your district ? I had to attend to 
 persons of all descriptions ; merchants, wharfingers, seamen, sea-cap- 
 tains, the dock officers, and the poor population in the neighborhood? 
 in lanes, courts and alleys parallel to the river ; and on the north side 
 of the London docks, including Rosemary lane, and the courts and al- 
 leys adjacent. 
 
 What was the condition of the houses in the district inhabited by the 
 laboring classes ? In general very bad ; it was the practice to pump 
 the water out of the cellars, which had got up into the houses by in- 
 filtration from the river, or more frequently by flowing in through the 
 house-drains from the sewers when the tides forced back the water into 
 the house. The stench from the water pumped out from the cellars 
 was often intolerable ; so much so, that I was accustomed to go out of 
 the way to avoid it. The pumping took place late at night. 
 
 Were cesspools general ? Yes . 
 
 They percolated the substratum 7 Of course. 
 
 And the river water, percolating through the substratum, carried with 
 it the matter from these cesspools 1 It would ; besides the river itself 
 
6 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 there was very impure ; in that locality large sewers emptying them- 
 selves into it at various places. The outlet of a very large one emitting 
 most noxious effluvia was at one of the wharves nearly opposite the 
 western extremity of Burr street. The shipping, chiefly Scotch smacks, 
 lay close to this outlet ; on board of which vessels many cases of cholera 
 occurred. 
 
 How were the laboring population situated as to crowding, ventila- 
 tion, supplies of water, and cleanliness? In all these respects, wretch- 
 edly ; the crowding was excessive, the ventilation bad, the rooms, fur- 
 niture, and clothes dirty. The water supply was very insufficient ; it 
 was an intermittent supply from the water company, distributed in 
 courts, by stand-pipes, on intermittent days. The fatigue of fetching 
 it was so great that it was only used for purposes deemed of absolute 
 necessity, such as cooking ; the population rarely bestowing much of 
 it on their own clothes or persons. I remember it well, as a fact, 
 that the water, from being kept so long, and absorbing the impurities 
 of these places, often smelt very offensively. 
 
 What was the condition of the streets as to paving, cleansing, or 
 scavengering 1 The paving in the courts was a rough bowlder paving, 
 like the roadway or paving of the streets ; but much neglected (as it is 
 still in many places) with cavities filled, after rain, with decaying vege- 
 table and animal matter, and stagnant or putrid water, the scavenger 
 rarely visiting them. 
 
 To what extent were these places visited by epidemics ? Very fre- 
 quently, and very severely. In 1828-9 I attended the district as the 
 honorary surgeon to the society, called the London Destitute Sick So- 
 ciety ; and it. fell to my own lot to attend there seventy-two cases of 
 typhus, besides numerous cases of scarlet fever, many of them of a 
 very malignant type. 
 
 Was the visitation of the cholera very severe in that neighborhood ? 
 Yes; the cholera first, appeared there. I believe I had the first case, 
 of which we had any knowledge, as having occurred in the metropolis. 
 Disease then spread over that side of the river, including Limehouse, 
 and the opposite side, Rotherhithe and Bermondsey. 
 
 Do you know the sanitary condition of the population on the oppo- 
 site side of the river? Yes, it is very bad ; the land lying low, being 
 very ill-drained, and abounding with foul ditches. 
 
 State the nature of the first cases which you had. The first case 
 was that of a seaman, named Daniel Barber, mate of the " Felicity," 
 of Limerick, which had come to London direct from that port, and had 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 7 
 
 lain in the river three weeks prior to his being- attacked. My brother, 
 who was with me in practice, saw him at about 10 o'clock on the 
 night of the 7th of February, 1832. He sent for me, and I went on 
 board about 11. The patient was then in a state of collapse, blue, 
 cold, and pulseless, and suffering severely from spasms. He died about 
 4 o'clock. 
 
 What was the condition of the ship itself? There was nothing very 
 particular in her condition. 
 
 What, however, is the general sanitary condition of merchant ships'? 
 
 The accommodation of the smaller class of ships, especially coasters, 
 is very confined ; they are filthy, unpleasant, and unwholesome. The 
 men often sleeping, feeding, and cooking in the same place, which is 
 very badly cleansed and ventilated. Frequently, moreover, considera- 
 ble quantities of wet clothing are thrown down upon their chests or 
 boxes, or anywhere else they can place them. Fever is very frequent 
 among the crews of these vessels, and very severe. 
 
 That is to say, fever occurring on board the ship 1 Yes. 
 
 May not such circumstances give rise to the popular suppositions of 
 fever or epidemics being imported by such vessels, which have arisen 
 on the spot, on board, and with sufficient cause? Undoubtedly. In 
 the very instance of the " Felicity" it was given out that the cholera 
 had been imported into the metropolis by that vessel. Now the neigh- 
 borhood where this case occurred was one of the dirtiest along the river. 
 What were called the " bone-vessels :" vessels employed to carry old 
 bones for manure, usually lay there, and some of them lay there at that 
 time. The smell was exceedingly sickening, and was perceptible at a 
 great distance. Such was the recklessness of the crews of these ves- 
 sels, that I have frequently seen them using the bones as fuel, and 
 cooking their provisions with them ; the most offensive smoke mean- 
 time penetrating into the houses along the shore. Putrid carcasses of 
 dogs, cats, and other inferior animals, likewise the refuse from the ship- 
 ping in the neighborhood, thrown into the river, or left on the muddy 
 beach by the tide, were allowed to remain there deteriorating the atmos- 
 phere, until removed by nature's scavengers. The whole of the coast ? 
 extending from St. Catherine's docks the entire length of High street 
 Wapping, was very bad, with the exception of a few houses at and near 
 the entrance of the London docks. And I know it to be a fact that the 
 water for all domestic purposes was pumped into many of the houses 
 from the parts of the river where these impurities abounded. 
 
 From the circumstances of seamen, though robust and young in life, 
 
8 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 living in such condition as you describe, would not you consider them 
 to have a special susceptibility to such a state of atmospheric impurity 7 
 Yes ; but even at sea, and away from all ports, cholera has apparently 
 broken out spontaneously. 
 
 Do you attribute that to the confined and unwholesome state of the ship 
 itself, or that part of the ship in which the seamen take their meals 
 and sleep ? Principally tthat of part of the ship where the seamen take 
 their meals and sleep. But the whole of the internal part of a ship 
 may be very unwholesome ; according to the nature of the cargo, or 
 where bilge-water is allowed to collect. Vessels containing putrid 
 hides, or other animal matters in a state of incipient putrescence, par- 
 ticularly guano ships, I would say, are likely to be dangerous when 
 cholera prevails epidemically. 
 
 Had you the next cases which occurred in your neighborhood ? I 
 believe I had ; I am not quite certain, but think the second case was a 
 seaman named Thomas Skowes, of the " Evander," of Aberdeen ; he 
 died likewise. The vessel lay off the Hermitage, the patient was 
 visited by several medical gentlemen, amongst whom was the surgeon 
 of the "Dover" cholera hospital ship. Skowes exhibited one of the 
 peculiar features of the disease a strong likeness to Barber ; on men- 
 tioning this to the surgeon of the " Dover," I remember his saying that 
 he had himself observed, or had heard remarked, there was a kind of 
 family likeness in all the cholera patients. 
 
 Will you describe the circumstances under which they arose ? The 
 next, I believe, which I had was the mate of a Scotch vessel lying 
 likewise at the Hermitage. He recovered . I rather think that his 
 was the first recovery in London. He told me that he had got up early 
 one morning and gone on deck; that the smell from the bone-vessels 
 lying a-head was so bad that it made him feel sick, and that he had 
 never been well since. 
 
 Was he in the blue stage ? He was blue, but not so blue as the first 
 patient ; he was more of a leaden color. 
 
 Would it be conformable to your experience of the susceptibility of 
 individuals to malaria, that seamen on board vessels from healthy ports, 
 but lying for weeks in the vicinity of the bone-ships, and amidst the 
 surrounding deleterious influences, would be more liable to be affected 
 by such circumstances than the seamen on board the bone-ships them- 
 selves, accustomed to the foul atmosphere of such vessels, and as it 
 were, acclimated to them? Yes, I believe they would be. I believe 
 that those who are acclimated are less liable than those who are not. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 9 
 
 What do you suppose to be the effect of the atmosphere of the bone 
 ships upon the health of the crews 1 I should imagine that many of 
 the weaker sort must die 3 or quit the vessels through ill health, and 
 that only those of stronger constitution would remain and become ac- 
 climated to them. 
 
 The Commissioners understand that during the late unhealthy con- 
 dition of the metropolis, whilst typhus was exceedingly prevalent in the 
 houses occupied by the poorer classes in Glass-house-yard, you have in 
 the model lodging house there, by cleanliness and ventilation, kept it 
 free from that disease? Yes. 
 
 Do you think that by the use of the like means cholera itself might 
 be kept away 1 I believe so. For I believe that cholera is governed 
 by the same circumstances as typhus. 
 
 And influenced by the same set of ascertained preventives? Yes. 
 
 Judging from personal experience, do you conceive that any system 
 of quarantine, in respect of vessels from ports, the known seats of 
 cholera, or that the strictest cordon sanitaire, would have prevented the 
 occurrence of such cases of cholera as came under your own notice 
 and care ? I do not. Not a single nurse or attendant that I employed 
 was attacked. 
 
 Have you any knowledge of the neighborhoods through which the 
 cholera spread from Wapping and Rotherhithe 1 I believe the next 
 cases occurred in the lower part of the Borough, Lambeth, then in the 
 lower part of Westminster, next along the Fleet Ditch, and thence 
 into the city. 
 
 Have you any reason to believe that the disease was communicated 
 during this progress from the contact of the sick with the healthy? 
 No. 
 
 Did any circumstances occur during your observation of the disease 
 which led you to believe that it was so communicated ? None. 
 
 Will you state the chief circumstances which appeared to you to 
 favor the spread and increase the severity of the disease ? Impure air, 
 and want of cleanliness ; the circumstances which produce typhus 
 fever will favor the production and spread of cholera in general, but 
 probably in this case improper food and fear had a more immediate 
 influence. 
 
 Do you think that such food, excesses, and depressing emotions, as 
 you observed to favor the production and spread of cholera, would have 
 been attended with these results in a pure air ? -'. 
 
10 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 No; I do not; and the circumstance hereafter mentioned of the 
 usual diet of the seamen of the Scotch shipping, will be found to cor- 
 roborate this opinion. 
 
 When you mention bad food, do your mean insufficient food or 
 unsuitable food ? Unsuitable food. 
 
 You are probably aware, that in some prisons where the drainage, 
 ventilation, and cleanliness, have been good, they have been kept free 
 from typhus and other epidemics, whilst the population of the districts 
 surrounding have been ravaged by them. Thus, in the Glasgow prison, 
 whilst a severe and fatal febrile epidemic left scarcely a house or a 
 family without a case, not one case arose among the prisoners ; that 
 forty persons were committed to the prison suffering under the epidemic, 
 and that not. one case arose among the prisoners ? Yes ; I am aware 
 of such facts. 
 
 Now at Glasgow, the expense of the diet is stated to have been some- 
 where about Is. 6d. per week; and at the Salford prison, where the 
 expense of the diet was no higher, similar immunity from spontaneous 
 fever was maintained ? Yes ; I have heard that such was the case. 
 
 In the statements of cases of cholera, cases are frequently stated, 
 where the attack followed a hearty supper of fish or meat of some sort ? 
 There was nothing more likely to produce such attacks ; the mucous 
 lining of the stomach and intestines, while the epidemic prevailed, 
 being preternaturally irritable. 
 
 From such observations, does it not follow that it is rather to simple 
 and wholesome, or suitable food, that regard should be had, than high 
 and stimulating food? Most assuredly. And I would add, that spirits, 
 wine and every stimulant of that description, on the commencement of 
 an attack of cholera, by quickly exhausting excitability, did irreparable 
 mischief. Abstinence, almost total abstinence, I always found highly 
 essential, until convalescence had taken place. I have seen many 
 patients, whose deaths, I firmly believe, were the consequence of an 
 over anxiety to give them nourishment. Toast and water, in small 
 quantities, and frequently repeated, seemed to me the best and safest 
 beverage, and also, for considerable time, sufficient nutriment;, and, as 
 progress was made to recovery, the addition of an equal quantity of 
 milk, excepting with those who lived rather freely, was found benefi- 
 cial. To show how readily the disease was reproduced after its -most 
 alarming symptoms had abated or .even ceased, I subjoin a few in- 
 stances : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 11 
 
 Beer reproduced vomiting, watery dejections, and spasms, which 
 had abated. 
 
 Wine vomiting, watery dejections, heat in the stomach, spasms in 
 the legs. 
 
 Brandy and pepper incessant vomiting, watery dejections, violent 
 spasms, and great prostration. 
 
 Oysters vomiting, watery dejections, and severe pain in the abdomen. 
 
 Ham all the symytoms of the earlier stages of the complaint, after 
 they had disappeared. 
 
 Next in importance to cleanliness in preventing cholera, is the avoid- 
 ing of unsuitable food, for, in almost every case that occurred in my 
 practice, I imagined I could trace it to some article of diet, likely to 
 create gastric irritation. Among the Scotch shipping, I frequently 
 found that in about twenty-four hours after taking broth composed of 
 meat, barley, cabbage, turnips, &c., and drinking beer, an attack took 
 place, and that diet of a similar nature very frequently preceded an 
 attack ashore. On mentioning this to the proprietors of the wharves, 
 the broth and beer were prohibited, and the cases of the disease became 
 much less frequent. Acid or ascescent nutriment, solid or fluid, I con- 
 sidered highly dangerous, and all rich food as being difficult of digestion. 
 One patient died wjao had been drinking punch the day before. Three 
 deaths, although not in my practice, took place from eating pickled 
 salmon, and one from eating dough pudding. Several cases occurred, 
 too, from taking Epsom salts. The trash eaten by children, seamen, 
 and many of the poor, is, in my opinion, a prolific source of disease. 
 
 Cannot you now pronounce with tolerable certainty in what places 
 you will not find cases of typhus'? I believe I could ; I could also tell 
 very well in what places I should find typhus. 
 
 In case cholera should re-appear, are these the places where you 
 would expect so find it? No doubt of it. 
 
 During the prevalence of cholera, did you observe much fever? None 
 at all, and but for the presence of that disease, London was never less 
 unhealthy than at that time. 
 
 Then is it your opinion that cholera took the place of typhus, 
 affecting the same class of persons, and being influenced by the same 
 class of circumstances? It is. 
 
 Supposing that you had it in your power to place the whole of the 
 district of which you have been speaking in a sound and sanitary con- 
 dition, in respect to house and street drainage, &c. ; cleansing and 
 
12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ample supplies of water, and ventilation, what do you believe would 
 be the result as preventing the appearance and spread of cholera? I 
 believe that if this were done for the whole district, and for all other 
 districts in the metropolis, cholera would not appear at all, or if it did, 
 it would appear only in a very mild form, 
 
 Do you think the class of persons whom you saw affected with 
 cholera, had it in their power to secure for themselves those external 
 conditions of cleanliness which you regard as so highly important a 
 means of precaution and prevention? The majority certainly could 
 not. However much the poor might have desired to increase the clean- 
 liness of their houses, they had no control over the supply of water, 
 and they had no means of procuring receptacles for holding it. Many 
 of them, too, were quite unable from their large families from weakness 
 and disease, to clean their houses; neither had they any means of 
 draining the surface of the streets, courts and alleys in which they 
 reside, or cleaning the privies and cesspools in the neighborhood, or of 
 escaping the poisonous emanations given off from them. 
 
 I case such a calamity were to happen as a return of the cholera, if 
 the people saw that combined and systematic means were taken by 
 public authority to make the places in which they live as clean and 
 wholesome as the main streets and great thoroughfares of the town, and 
 particularly to afford them a constant supply of water, not only suffi- 
 cient for their domestic use, but also to keep the surface of their lanes, 
 courts arid* alleys clean, to wash away their filth, and to cleanse their 
 privies and cesspools, do you think that such measures would give the 
 poorer classes confidence, and prevent that fear and terror which you 
 regard as powerful pre-disposing causes of the disease ? I think it 
 would be attended with a highly beneficial effect. On the former 
 visitation of cholera, they looked on what was attempted for their relief 
 with suspicion and apprehension ; and that especially was their feeling 
 with regard to their plan of placing them in separate hospitals. 
 
 From the knowledge which the great intercourse you have had 
 among the poor classes must have given you of the circumstances which 
 influence their minds and feelings, do you think that they would appre- 
 ciate the value of those preventive measures, and that such measures 
 would have a beneficial influence on the internal economy of their 
 houses, and in promoting habits of internal and personal cleanliness 1 
 I have no doubt of it. And that the result would be most beneficial in 
 all these respects. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 13 
 
 Then from what you have observed and know of the dispositions 
 and intelligence of these classes, you do not coincide with the popular 
 notion that they love dirt, and that they cannot be trained to habits of 
 cleanliness 1 I do not. I think this is a most erroneous opinion, and 
 has been most completely refuted by the circumstance of the bathers, and 
 washers, and ironers of clothes in Glass-house yard, and by the fact of 
 there being such a cleansing and white-washing of houses, rooms and 
 courts in Rosemary lane during 1828, when pails and brushes were lent 
 to the poor, and a present made to them of whitewash, that to those 
 formerly accustomed to some of the black dirty-looking places it seemed 
 almost as if a snow storm had taken place. And the same inclination 
 for cleansing their apartments was again manifested last year. 
 
 A strong conviction has been expressed and stated in evidence by 
 those who have paid attention to the subject, that there is almost as 
 close a connection between filth and crime, as there is between filth 
 and fever, do you coincide with this opinion ? I have long been of 
 that opinion, and every day's experience proves to me that it is a 
 correct one : physical degradation soon ends in moral debasement. 
 
 Then you think that that external and internal cleanliness which 
 constitutes the main means of prevention against the origin and spread 
 of epidemic diseases, must also precede any material improvement in 
 the physical, moral and religious condition of the people ? Decidedly. 
 
 What were the means adopted in your district to improve its clean- 
 liness 1 Cleansing the drains and the surface of the streets. 
 
 Were any means taken to remove the filth ? Yes, but this was done 
 very unskilfully, and under the influence of great alarm. Cesspools 
 were emptied ; drains and sewers opened and cleaned out. The con- 
 tents of the drains and sewers, if not of the cesspools likewise, were accu- 
 mulated on the streets, and left in small heaps, for the convenience of 
 cartage, opposite houses where patients at the time were laid up with 
 cholera. This matter was highly offensive when first placed on the sur- 
 face, and produced, in some cases, an intolerable stench; so that I 
 thought the very means taken to lessen the disease tended to increase the 
 evil. Thestench from these heaps being perceptible in the houses of 
 patients laboring under cholera at that very time. 
 
 From what you relate, from the aggravation of the evil which you 
 represent, followed the unskilful attempts at cleansing on the former 
 appearance of cholera, may we conclude that preventive means for the 
 future should be systematic and comprehensive? Yes ; and they should 
 
14 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 be adopted at once ; and you may be quite certain that, if cholera do 
 not come, the public will have the benefit of them in the prevention of 
 typhus. 
 
 What were the public means of alleviation adopted ? Removing the 
 sick to cholera hospitals. 
 
 What was the character of the hospitals that were provided ? They 
 consisted of dwelling-houses, taken for the purpose of affording tempo- 
 rary accommodation ; the one that came particularly under my notice 
 was very badly ventilated, and situated in a bad locality ; that is, close 
 to the Hermitage, and near the bone vessels already spoken of. 
 
 What was your impression as to the benefit derived from those tem- 
 porary hospitals ? That they did no good, but much evil. The cases 
 that were treated, as far as I had an opportunity of observing; at their 
 own houses, however wretched those houses might be, did far better 
 For example, in the particular hospital to which I have just alluded, of 
 those sick two only out of eleven recovered; whereas out of 21 or 24 
 treated at their own houses only three died. The very fatigue of re- 
 moval seemed to me to do much harm. I have known the mere cir- 
 cumstance of patients sitting upright in bed in their extremely feeble 
 state, reproduce the worst symptoms of the disease. Some of the Com- 
 missioners, in the practice of their profession, must ha*e observed a 
 similar result in advanced stages, even of common fever. I saw one 
 striking example of the advantage of non-removal. A captain of a 
 large vessel lying near the West India docks called upon me one mor- 
 ning. He stated that two or three of his seamen had been attacked 
 with cholera, and sent to the cholera hospital-ship at Limehouse, where 
 they had died. That another of his men, to the best of my recollection, 
 his mate, had been seized with the disease, and that all the crew had 
 threatened to leave the ship if he died too. Under these circumstances, 
 he said he had been recommended to apply to me to advise him what 
 to do. I at once told him, I did not at all approve of cholera patients 
 being subjected to the fatigue of removal. He then asked me if I 
 would take charge of the sick man, which I agreed to do.. Taking a 
 man with me upon whom I could place dependence, I went on board. 
 The case was a severe one, quite as much so, it was said, as any of the 
 others who had been removed. My patient recovered ; the alarm 
 ceased; all the seamen who had left the ship returned on board, and 
 not another case of cholera occurred in that vessel. So great was the 
 panic at the time that the attendant I left on board told me there had 
 been no one but himself and the patient in the ship for several hours. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 15 
 
 The following are the conclusions to which Mr. Greenough, of New- 
 castle, who treats of the cholera at Gateshead and Sunderland ar- 
 rived : 
 
 " Perhaps the following- summary of the arguments by which the 
 non-communicnbility of cholera from one person to another by means 
 of contagion appears firmly established, may not be devoid either of 
 interest or utility. 
 
 " 1. That there has been no proof adduced of the disease having 
 been brought to Sunderland by shipping. That, on the contrary, the 
 suspected vessels have neither corne from diseased ports, nor have they 
 had cases of cholera on board. 
 
 " 2, That there is the best reason for believing that cases of cholera 
 had occurred in different parts of the country, and at some distance 
 from the sea, before it made its appearance in Sunderland at all. 
 
 "3. That although cases have occasionally occurred having such 
 proximity to each other, both as to time and place, as might lead to a 
 suspicion of contagion, yet they would always admit of a different and 
 more probable mode of interpretation, consistent with the broad fact, 
 which is totally irreconcilable with contagion, that numerous cases have 
 occurred simultaneously at distant points, where no communication 
 could by possibility have taken place. 
 
 " 4. That when several members of one family have been attacked, 
 it has usually been either so precisely or nearly at the same point of 
 time as forbid the belief of one having communicated the disease to 
 another. And that the true principle of the occurrence of such plurality 
 of cases is to be found in the common existence of predisposing causes, 
 natural or acquired, and a common exposure to the efficient cause of 
 cholera. 
 
 " 5. That in the hospitals at Newcastle and Gateshead, where, were 
 there such an agent as contagion, it must have been present in its most 
 concentrated form, no case has occurred of illness arising from atten- 
 dance on the sick, either in the persons of the nurses, the resident apothe- 
 caries, or the attending or numerous succession of visiting members of 
 the medical profession. 
 
 " 6. That the notion of persons being infected by the dead bodies of 
 cholera patients appears equally unfounded, since such suspected cases 
 are referable to other causes, and those most exposed to contact with 
 the dead, as medical men, in pursuing post-mortem examinations, have 
 not, in any instance, suffered. 
 
 ' 
 
16 
 
 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 " 7. That the principle of contagion is acknowledged to be unequal 
 to the explanation of the manner in which the disease extends itself, 
 without the assistance of an epidemic condition of the atmosphere. 
 
 " 8. That an atmospheric agency, of more or less intensity, and of 
 greater or more confined extension, which visits different places in suc- 
 cession, generally leaving, partially or entirely, one place before it 
 arrives at another whose distance is not very considerable, appears solely 
 and fully equal to the production of the phenomena which attend the 
 progress of this extraordinary disease. 
 
 " 1. The stage of the disease. If the first stage only has shown itself, 
 the patient may be removed with comparative safety ; if the stage of 
 collapse have set in, and especially if in an intense form, the danger of 
 removal must necessarily be very great, and ought not to be incurred 
 unless the danger of remaining in his own house should be yet greater ; 
 this must depend upon, 2. How far the patient can be supplied with 
 the necessary comforts of nursing, if permitted to remain at home. If 
 his house be comfortable and well provided with proper supplies of 
 blankets, &c., or if any deficiency in this respect can be readily sup- 
 plied, and if his family are likely to prove attentive and efficient nurses, 
 the idea of removing him to an hospital ought to be entirely aban- 
 doned ; for without doubt his chance of recovery would be greatly 
 diminished by such a step. If, however, from deficiency of accom- 
 modation, and the absence of comforts, and of proper nursing, his 
 residence appears unfit for the efficient employment of the requisite 
 remedial measures, more especially if the deficiency will not admit of 
 being immediately supplied, then, and then only can his removal to an 
 hospital be considered advisable ; and even then it becomes a choice 
 of two evils, in which the relative force of each ought to be fully con- 
 sidered. If the hospital is distant and the weather unfavorable, the 
 danger of removal must be imminent, and nothing but an extreme case 
 of domestic discomfort can render it justifiable. May cases, however, 
 may doubtless arise wherein the propriety of removal is indisputable. 
 
 " On the whole it is well worthy the attention of Boards of Health 
 and Committees appointed to visit the houses of the poor, to aim rather 
 at supplying the proper comforts and nursing at home, than to remove 
 the sick to hospitals.. If they are enabled to accomplish this with any 
 degree of perfectfon, they will certainly contribute in a much greater 
 degree to the preservation of life, than by the best hospital arrange- 
 ments that can be devised. It is an undoubted fact, that the relative 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 17 
 
 mortality in hospitals has been greater than in private houses, and I 
 apprehend it distinctly arises from the disturbance, fatigue, and expo- 
 sure attendant on the removal of patients a and the consequent delay in 
 the use of remedies." Extracted from Treatise on Cholera in Newcastle 
 and Gates/lead, by T. M. Greenhow, M.R.C.S., Newcastle. 
 
 How far does your experience coincide with his 1 It is in exact 
 accordance with my own observation and experience. 
 
 He further describes the condition of the population whom the cho- 
 lera chiefly attacked in that district. You will observe the influence 
 which he attributes to habits of intemperance. How far does his 
 opinion on this point coincide with your own? 
 
 " It has been generally remarked, that wherever cholera has hitherto 
 prevailed, it has principally attacked the broken down in constitution, 
 the dissolute, the abject poor, those devoid of proper bodily comforts, 
 whether in lodging, clothing or diet, those enfeebled by age, and the 
 inhabitants of low, dirty, crowded, and ill ventilated situations, and 
 with few exceptions, such has been the case in Newcastle. These, 
 then, must be considered as the general predisposing causes of an 
 acquired physical nature ; we may add to them exposure to great 
 fatigue, damp, cold, or dietetic excess. A diligent inquiry would, I 
 am satisfied, enable us to discover instances of all these circumstances 
 having led more or less directly to the attack ; but of the- effect of the 
 latter cause in particular, dietetic excess, the extraordinary irruption of 
 the disease at Gateshead, in the midst of the Christmas feastings, 
 offers a most remarkable example. It is true, that Mr. Fife of that 
 place, has been led to doubt the effect of habits of intoxication in pro- 
 ducing predisposition to cholera, as will be seen in his excellent com- 
 munication on the subject, wherein he observes, that ' from the great 
 proportion of orderly sober persons and children of all ages, among 
 the patients, I cannot consider drunkenness a powerful predisposing 
 cause, though for the sake of morality, it is well to favor the opinion.' 
 But after all, this only proves that such habits are not the only predis- 
 posing causes. Innumerable instances might be brought forward, 
 wherein the attack supervened either during the continuance of, or 
 immediately subsequent to excessive indulgence in ardent spirits. 
 Such was the case in two of the earliest instances that occurred in 
 Newcastle, those of Eddy and Mills, and others, have come under my 
 own observation. Nor will it admit of a question, that their habitual 
 use greatly diminishes the healthy tone of the stomach and bowels, 
 and induce an irritable condition of their mucous lining." 
 
18 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 It is quite in accordance with what I have myself observed. 
 
 Of the dangerous effects of seemingly very slight fatigue in cholera, 
 the following are proofs : 
 
 Captain Swanson, master of a Scotch smack, lying near the Hermitage, 
 was doing well. He got out of bed, remained up for several hours, 
 nearly undressed, busily engaged with his books and papers, whilst so 
 occupied he suddenly relapsed into the disease, and never rallied. I 
 believe he was about seventy years of age. 
 
 Another patient, whose name is not recorded, was removed to a 
 house in the neighborhood, forty-eight hours after he had rallied. He 
 relapsed, and suffered severely before he recovered. 
 
 Andrew , the mate, who stated he had never been well after 
 
 s melling the bone-ship, was doing well until removed to a house in 
 Hermitage street, twenty-four hours after he had rallied. He relapsed, 
 and likewise suffered severely, so much so, that for a considerable time 
 his life was despaired of. 
 
 Captain Dickson, master of a Leith smack, at the expiration of seventy- 
 six hours, after rallying, relapsed, and was for several hours in a state of 
 collapse. The consecutive fever with him was very bad, assuming, in 
 every respect, the most malignant form of typhus fever. 
 
 Ellis, a seaman, at the end of forty-eight hours, got out of bed, 
 
 and experienced a relapse ; got up again, and was attacked so severely as 
 to be obliged to remain in bed, dangerously ill, for seven days. 
 
 Captain Swain's boy, at the expiration of three days, reproduced 
 collapse by getting out of bed. The names of these patients were all 
 reported to the Central Board of Health, as also the history of many of 
 their cases. 
 
 In cases were perfect rest was observed, the patients recovered with- 
 out experiencing any relapse. 
 
 In an adjoining parish (Wapping,) seven deaths are recorded, and 
 two recoveries. I believe the majority, if not all, of the deaths took 
 place in the hospital. The two recoveries were my patients. One, a 
 poor girl, inhabiting with her parents a miserable hovel in a narrow 
 lane, immediately behind the south side of Wellclose square ; and the 
 other, a seaman, in a small cabin on board of a ship. 
 
 A patient, who was recovering in the Central Asylum for the House- 
 less Poor, was sent to the hospital and died. Another patient, treated 
 in the Asylum recovered. 
 
 I could multiply such proofs, but, believing that a sufficiency has 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 19 
 
 been given to justify my opinion of the impropriety of removing- cho- 
 lera patients, I will merely add, that when the disease first broke out 
 wherever a thread of pulse was distinguishable at the wrist, with the 
 exception of Barber, Skowes, and Swanson, my patients recovered. 
 Whereas, in a cholera hospital, I have felt pulsations distinctly, have 
 seen the patients to all appearance doing well, and yet they have died. 
 
 I have seen a patient sent to the hospital ship in whom pulsation was 
 distinguishable, and other favorable symptoms present, but next day 
 brought intelligence of his death. 
 
 Concerning the effects of fear, I may mention, that I attended a gen- 
 tleman who died during the second outbreak of cholera, who was in a 
 state of great alarm during the attack, and for several days preced. 
 ing it. 
 
 I likewise attended a captain who recovered. He was the master of 
 a Bridport trader, lying near the Hermitage. Whilst attending one 
 of his boys, whose case was one of great severity, he used to look down 
 from the deck into the cabin, and declare he would not go into it if all 
 London were to be given to him for doing so. All his crew assisted in 
 waiting upon the boy without suffering from the disease, while the 
 captain, who had never gone near him, was attacked on shore, where 
 I had to attend him. 
 
 That the disease could not be very contagious the following facts 
 will probably go far to establish : 
 
 On board of the vessel where the first case occurred, the captain, a 
 boy, a man, two medical attendants, my brother and myself were with 
 him for hours in a close heated cabin, without being affected. 
 
 On board of a smack, the captain, boy, men, medical attendants, 
 three in number, were all in a heated cabin for hours, and escaped. 
 
 On board of a sloop, the captain, crew, four medical attendants were 
 present in a small cabin for hours, without taking the disease. The 
 patient was afterwards taken to a dwelling-house, where neither the 
 nurse, nor any of the inmates, five or six in number, were attacked. 
 
 On board of another ship where the man died, the captain, the mate, 
 the crew, six medical attendants, were all crowded together in a small 
 heated cabin ; likewise a gentleman, anxious to see a case of the disease, 
 and three of the crew of the " Dover" cholera ship ; none of them 
 became ill in consequence. 
 
 In a wretched house, a girl, residing and sleeping with her brother, 
 sister, and parents, an old woman, three medical attendants, and seve- 
 ral visitors, all escaped. 
 
20 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 On board of a trader, the captain, crew, nurse, and three medical 
 attendants never caught the disease, nor did any of the family in the 
 house to which the patient was sent. 
 
 On board of a vessel, master, steward, crew, boys, visitors, and 
 medical attendants, all remained well, as were the family to which 
 the patient was taken. 
 
 On board of a coaster, the captain, crew, family to which the patient 
 was taken, and the medical attendants all escaped. f 
 
 The family where a captain was taken to reside, the nurse, the 
 medical attendants all remained well. 
 
 On board of a vessel, the captain, the crew, the nurse, and medical 
 attendants all escaped. 
 
 On board a very small vessel, the captain (patient the captain's wife) 
 and two children, one an infant, sleeping, or rather lying, in the same 
 bed with the patient, and suckled, all escaped, as did also the medical 
 attendants and several visitors. 
 
 On board of a similar vessel, (patient the captain's wife,) the captain, 
 his wife, and three children all slept in the same bed. One of the 
 children, an infant, was suckled by the patient. There were several 
 visitors and three medical attendants ; all remained free from the 
 disease. 
 
 On board of a coaster the crew and medical attendants escaped. 
 
 On board of a smack, the captain, crew, medical attendants, and the 
 family where the patient went to reside, remained well. 
 
 In a cholera hospital, one man, in the agonies of death, was hung 
 over and kissed by his weeping daughters ; none of whom took the 
 disease. 
 
 I could bring forward other arid numerous proofs of the disease being 
 non-contagious were they deemed necessary. 
 
 Another circumstance it might be worth while to mention. A second 
 outbreak of cholera took place in June, when I found it more intracta- 
 ble than on its first appearance, especially with regard to the consecu- 
 tive fever, for while I never lost a single patient in the spring whom I 
 could get into that stage, several died, who, judging from former cases, 
 I expected to do well. 
 
 It is a curious fact, that the first and the last case of cholera I attend- 
 ed was at the Hermitage. The last was a captain of a vessel ; and 
 when I reported his case, an ofiicial notice was sent to me, that the 
 Cholera Boards had ceased to exist, as cholera had ceased in London. 
 That occurred, I think, in September, 1834. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 21 
 
 (Second Part.) 
 
 Will you be so good as to describe the Model Lodgmg-house at 
 Glasshouse yard ? It is a large building consisting of three floors. The 
 lower floor contains two wards ; the middle floor one ward ; the upper 
 floor two wards, and two lodging rooms, convertible when necessary 
 into sick rooms. Attached to this building are a receiving office ; two 
 rooms inhabited by the clerk and matron ; a reading, refreshment or 
 waiting room; a convenient kitchen; good water closets, and a large 
 tank containing a good supply of water. The buildings altogether form 
 an oblong square, leaving a considerable unoccupied open space. 
 
 What was the expense of constructing and fitting the buildings'? 
 The house and part of the offices have formerly formed a portion of a 
 glass manufactory, from which the street and yard where they are 
 situated derived their names. They were in a most dilapidated and 
 ruinous condition. Indeed it may be said that the greater part of the 
 kitchen, reading-room, receiving office, and clerk's apartments had to 
 be rebuilt ; the water tank and water closets to be' wholly built; the 
 yard leveled ; large flues dug out of the building ; wooden floors 
 substituted for earthen ones, full of deep trenches and uneven projec- 
 tions ; water and gas laid on ; old drains repaired and new ones formed ; 
 painting and glazing executed to a great extent ; bed places, bedding, 
 stoves, funnels, kitchen utensils, &c., procured; all of which was 
 accomplished for a sum not exceeding ,1000. 
 
 Judging from experience, would you make any alterations were you 
 to construct or fit up others? Several trifling improvements might be 
 effected, but I would not be inclined to depart far from the plans adopted 
 in the first model lodging-house. 
 
 Describe the numbers, occupation, and the behavior of the lodgers 1 
 The number of lodgers nightly were : 
 
 Men. "Women. Total. 
 
 January 1,242 1,242 
 
 February...! 1,448 376 1,824 
 
 March 1,738 435 2,173 
 
 April 2,487 592 ... 3,079 
 
 May../ 4,109 576 4,685 
 
 June 3,285 439 3,724 
 
 July 2,685 389 3,074 
 
 August..., 2,839... 483 ,. 3,322 
 
 September 3,550 319 3,869 
 
 2 Total 23,383 3,609 26,992 
 
22 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 With a very few exceptions indeed, the behavior of the lodgers is 
 quiet, orderljr and respectful. They seem perfectly aware that disor- 
 derly conduct will not be tolerated, having seen, in the few instances 
 necessary to be taken notice of, that the rules are not broken without 
 reproof or dismissal, and that when crime is committed, they are not 
 screened from punishment. I may here mention that there are seats 
 set apart for them in a chapel of ease belonging to the church, which 
 appears to afford a number of them gratification. As many as thirty 
 or forty have gone there at a time, and conducted themselves with 
 propriety. On Sundays, their favorite book seems the Bible, and I 
 have frequently found them in their bed-places reading it, when they 
 could have no expectation of endeavoring to gain favor by any osten- 
 tatious display. The library is tolerably well supplied with religious 
 and instructive books and periodicals, and it is interesting to see with 
 what anxiety they inquire for the new publications about the time they 
 generally reach Glass-house yard. The books and periodicals are 
 generously supplied by the gentleman through whose means the 
 experiment of the lodging-house has been made, and by donations from 
 visitors who approve of the undertaking. I feel assured that the con- 
 duct of the lodgers is improving, and that many of them now look upon 
 the establishment as a home. It is only of late their occupations have 
 been inquired into. 
 
 The first class lodgers are chiefly, 
 
 Dock laborers, Seamen, 
 
 Coal-porters, Bakers, 
 
 Cabinet-makers, Cheesemongers, 
 
 Carpenters. 
 The second class, 
 
 Weavers, Bricklayers, 
 
 Sailors, Hawkers, 
 
 Shoemakers. 
 
 Give a description and the dimensions of the various parts of the 
 building. The first class ward is on the lower floor, and contains 87 
 bed-places, 2 feet, and 2 feet 3 inches ; the bottom of the bed-places 
 18 inches from the floor, division 3 feet high. 
 
 The ward itself is 43 feet long, 40 feet wide, and 12 feet high ; it 
 has 3 windows : 
 
 One 5 feet 8 inches high, and 10 feet wide. 
 One 5 feet 8 inches high 3 and 5 feet wide. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 23 
 
 One 5 feet 8 inches high, and 3 feet wide. 
 
 Door 10 feet high, and 5 feet wide. 
 
 Door half glass, half wood. 
 
 Ventilator of open canvas 26 feet long, 18 inches wide, and 12 
 
 inches deep. 
 
 Second class ward is on the same floor. The sleeping places, like 
 those of the first class ward, contains 53 sleeping places, is 26 feet 
 long, 40 feet wide, and 12 feet high. Five windows : 
 One 5 feet 8 inches high, and 7 feet wide. 
 Four 5 feet 8 inches high, and 10 feet 5 inches wide. 
 The door 10 feet high, and 3 feet wide ; is one half glass and 
 
 one-half wood. 
 Ventilator of open canvas 26 feet long, 18 inches wide, and 12 
 
 inches deep. 
 
 Third class ward contains 72 fixed bed-places, similar to those in the 
 first and second class wards, and 28 moveable bedsteads, to be filled 
 with shifting divisions ; is 70 feet long, 41 feet wide, and 10 feet high. 
 Has 7 windows : 
 
 Five 5 feet 7 inches high, and 10 feet 6 inches wide. 
 Two 5 feet 7 inches high, and 9 feet three inches wide. 
 Has 7 ventilators of open canvas : 
 Four 3 feet square. 
 Three 3 feet long, and 1 foot wide. 
 The door is 3 feet high, and 1 foot wide. 
 Women's ward contains 4 rooms, 2 large and 2 small. 
 
 The large rooms 24 feet long, 30 feet wide, and 14 feet high. 
 The small rooms 13 feet long, 14 feet wide, and 14 feet high. 
 Four windows in each large room, and one in each small room ; 
 all the windows are of the same size, 3 feet six inches square. 
 Reading and waiting room, 34 feet long, 15 feet wide, and 17 feet high. 
 Skylight 5 feet 6 inches long, and four feet 10 inches wide. 
 Door 6 feet high, and 4 feet wide. 
 Kitchen 20 feet long, 11 feet wide, and 18 feet high. 
 The skylight 5 feet long, and 4 feet wide. 
 Door 6 feet high, and 3 feet wide. 
 
 Yard 48 feet long, 35 feet wide, with a post and gas lamp in the 
 centre. 
 
 Water tank 13 feet 10 inches long, and 6 feet 3 inches wide. Water 
 closets : 
 
24 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Men's, 7 feet high, 4 feet wide, and 7 feet long 1 . 
 Women's 7 feet high, 4 feet wide, and 5 feet long. 
 
 What methods for ventilation are in use 1 The upper panes are of 
 perforated glass ; the apertures small and numerous for the purpose of 
 admitting air in such minute streams as to prevent unpleasant or dan- 
 gerous cold draughts coming in contact with the persons of the lodgers ; 
 the frame of the upper part of the windows and the top of the doors 
 are similarly perforated. An upper direction is given to the entrance 
 of the air, by giving the panes an inclination outwards at the top and 
 inward at the bottom, and by drilling the apertures obliquely in the 
 wood. The panes have the advantage of admitting light, an object I 
 deem of great importance in preserving health. In the middle of the 
 ceiling in the lower wards extending the whole length of the building 
 is a channel bottomed by coarse open canvas, 12 inches deep, 18 wide, 
 communicating with the shaft of the chimney ; under this channel 
 passes an iron funnel conveying the smoke of a ship's hearth in the 
 largest ward into the chimney in the lesser ward where it receives 
 another impetus for its expulsion from the heat given out by another 
 ship's hearth. Heated vitiated air being specifically lighter than pure 
 air, it is a necessary consequence that it will make its way into the 
 channel in the ceiling, and be drawn out of it and up the chimney, 
 with the smoke escaping from the fire-places. It is almost needless to 
 add, that the entrance of the foul air into the channel in the ceiling will 
 be expedited by the heat of the funnel conveying the smoke from the 
 most distant fire-place. 
 
 Could you effect any improvement in the ventilation? It could be 
 increased if found insufficient as it is employed at present, but by open- 
 ing all the doors and windows during the day in summer, as the build- 
 ing has never been over-crowded, there did not seem any necessity for 
 making any alteration. 
 
 What advantage do you imagine is gained by having the beds in 
 compartments? I believe that as vitiated air is lighter than that which 
 is pure, it will have a tendency to ascend when respired, without 
 diffusing itself laterally so as to be capable of being inhaled by those 
 sleeping near each other. But whilst I would prefer this plan for the 
 prevention of disease, I would not recommend it where disease has 
 really taken place, as it might have an injurious effect upon those 
 whose duty it is to render assistance. I have never seen any bad effects 
 result from attending fever patients in these bed-places j but when a 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 25 
 
 case does occur where it is necessary to take it under my care, the 
 patient is immediately taken to another part of the house, placed in an 
 open bed, and the precaution used not to allow another bed containing 
 a patient to be within a distance of several feet. Another advantage 
 is gained in accordance with decency, the allowing the lodgers to dress 
 and undress in comparative privacy. 
 
 What has been the result of the ventilation, as practised in the 
 lodging house? The absence of unpleasant smells, the possession of 
 an agreeable temperature, and an almost total exemption from febrile 
 disease. 
 
 Have there been any cases of typhus? A few. 
 
 Were they under such circumstances as that the disease might have 
 been contracted elsewhere ? All of them ; for they went out during 
 the day, sometimes not returning until late at night, after being exposed 
 to the inclemency of the weather, and no doubt spending a considerable 
 portion of their time in places filled with air of a most deleterious 
 character. 
 
 What is the state of health as compared with that of the adjacent 
 population ? Whilst fever has been prevailing to a very great extent 
 in Glasshouse street and its adjacent courts and alleys, and the verdict 
 of a coroner's jury has been given that disease and death have been the 
 consequence of breathing impure air, there is not at present an individ- 
 ual under medical treatment in the building, nor has there been a 
 single case of fever there for upwards of four months. The only deaths 
 which ever occurred among the lodgers were two children, laboring 
 under hydrocephalus internus when they were admitted, and an aged 
 mutilated seaman, who had long been affected with hydrothorax and 
 disease of the heart. 
 
 Judging from your present experience of the habits of the laboring 
 population, do you believe it will be practicable, with available ap- 
 pliances, to put an end to typhus originating spontaneously in other 
 dwellings? I believe that it might be as completely put an end to in 
 houses, villages and towns as the ague has been in many parts of the 
 country where it usually prevailed. I have often heard, while in 
 practice in Stirlingshire, Scotland, that in a certain district there ague 
 prevailed every spring and autumn, but since the land had been well 
 drained the disease seemed to have become extinct. I can only say on 
 this point that during the five years I was actively engaged in that very 
 district, I never saw a case of ague except one. The man told me he 
 had been attacked with it in Lincolnshire. 
 
26 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 May not this same conclusion be applicable to other diseases'? I 
 have no doubt of it. 
 
 As you have examined the habitat of typhus, is it invariable that 
 physical circumstances are found to account for the origin of the disease ? 
 I believe that on all occasions, if diligently sought for, they might be 
 found . 
 
 May it not be stated with confidence, as a general conclusion derived 
 from your experience, that all offensive smells (the consequence of de- 
 composing animal and vegetable matter) are eventually disease ? I 
 have not the slightest doubt that in certain constitutions of the atmos- 
 phere there is nothing so likely to produce disease. I could bring for- 
 ward several instances corroborating this opinion, but the following may 
 perhaps suffice : A young lady, whom I attended during a long and 
 severe attack of typhus, frequently told me she attributed her illness to 
 a very disagreeable smell she encountered while passing through White- 
 chapel market. Among the first cholera patients in London were the 
 mats of a vessel lying off Hermitage, and the wife of the master of a 
 small coasting vessel lying off Horselydown. Both of them had the 
 disease very severely. The mate told me that he had never been well 
 after getting up one morning very early, and smelling something very 
 offensive from a bone vessel lying a short distance from them. The 
 master's wife said she had never felt right since she had u a sniff of 
 bad yeast" from some casks on shore. Within a few days after expe- 
 riencing those smells they were both attacked with cholera. I remem- 
 ber a house in Hermitage street., where I think three of its inhabitants 
 died of cholera ; the necessary had not been cleared for several years, 
 and the smell which pervaded every room was dreadfully offensive. 
 When cholera made its appearance, drains, sewers and cesspools were- 
 opened, which had long been neglected ; and I have attended patients 
 in houses where the smells arising from the contents of the drains and 
 sewers, if not of the cesspools themselves, heaped on the streets for re- 
 moval, were in all probability the cause of exciting the disease. In 
 the end of the year 1830, and during 1831, typhus fever prevailed epi- 
 demically in various parts of the country, and also in London. It 
 broke out, in the end of January or beginning of February, in the 
 Eastern Asylum for the Houseless Poor, then situated in Globe street, 
 Wapping. In ,the course of a few days, upwards of forty of the in- 
 mates were laid prostrate on straw, and before the end of a month there 
 were sixty-five cases under my care. What I have no doubt increased 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 27 
 
 its rapid diffusion throughout the building" was a cesspool, which at that 
 time began to smell offensively ; but that it originated the disease may 
 be questioned, as several men had been admitted who had passed 
 through fever in the Grampus hospital ship, and been discharged as 
 convalescent. And there is another reason for having some doubt on 
 that point ; that the cesspool did not smell so offensively until after the 
 fever broke out, which latter circumstance I attributed in a considerable 
 degree to a greater quantity of water being used for the purpose of 
 cleanliness. The same house had been used for several years as the 
 asylum, without any outbreak of fever, but I strongly advised that it 
 should never again be occupied for that purpose. The Eastern Asylum 
 is now in Glasshouse yard, East Smithfield. Just as my professional 
 .services were ceasing to be required, I was attacked by the disease my- 
 self, and I remember well, just a few days before I was taken ill, being 
 called to visit a poor man residing in a miserable room in one of the 
 courts of an alley in Rosemary lane. He was almost in the last stage 
 of typhus fever, and the room smelt most horribly, so much so that it 
 almost made me sick. From that time I never felt well, until after I 
 passed through fever. At the time I was attacked, however, my 
 brother and my assistant were laid up with it in my own house. Both 
 of them had been most assiduous in their attendance on the sick in 
 Globe street. It affords me great satisfaction to be able to state that 
 only one man out of sixty-three treated in the asylum died, and his 
 was a case of relapse through imprudently going out during a very wet 
 day while he was in a state of great debility. Prior to the occurring 
 of fever in the Eastern Asylum, it was the practice to bed the inmates 
 in straw, without any means of separation. When the disease did 
 break out, the chairman and committee placed the whole establish- 
 ment under my care, on which I caused an infirmary to be fitted up, 
 provided with separate cribs, blankets and sheets, and the sick supplied 
 with clean cotton shirts. As they became convalescent, the patients 
 were removed into another ward, fitted up in a similar manner. This 
 afforded me an opportunity of seeing the advantage of having separate 
 sleeping places, both in increasing comfort and lessening the chance of 
 the occurrence of disease ; for it was no unusual event to witness the 
 wards crowded to an alarming extent, in defiance of all my remon- 
 strances to the contrary, a full house seeming as necessary for the satis- 
 faction of the officers of the asylum, as a similar event would have 
 been to any manager of a theatre. Besides, in wet evenings it often 
 
 ' 
 
 Vv UNIVERSITY 
 
28 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 i 
 
 happened that those who had managed to keep themselves dry before 
 coming into the ward had to lie down, and be in contact with those 
 whose clothes were saturated with rain and covered with mud. It was 
 several years, however, before I could succeed in effecting my purpose, 
 but at lenghth I did so, and had the satisfaction to see it become one of 
 the laws of the institution that each individual be provided with a sep- 
 arate crib and clean straw. There was yet another purpose in view, 
 which likewise took me some time to attain the substituting of water- 
 proof mattrasses for the loose straw used as bedding, a filthy and un- 
 wholesome article, as when it becomes heated and impregnated with 
 the effluvia from human bodies and dirty clothing, it gives out a nau- 
 seating, offensive smell, vitiating the air of the apartment, and render- 
 ing it a fit agent for the production and spread of disease ; besides ^ 
 which, it affords a harbor for the rapid engendering of vermin, and the 
 communicating of itch,* a disease at one time very common among 
 the applicants, and costly to the charity. When the trial of a few 
 waterproof beds, furnished with leather sheets, was made, the advan- 
 tages of the plan were soon perceptible, and orders were given to have 
 all the three asylums similarly fitted, since which the wards look cleaner, 
 the inmates express themselves as more comfortable, the disagreeable 
 smell was almost removed, and the great expense for the procuring and 
 removal of the straw obviated ; besides, fever has become less frequent 
 and much less fatal than before the new beds came into use. Since the 
 baths and the washing and drying apparatus were added to the asylum, 
 there is a still greater appearance of cleanliness and comfort, absence 
 of offensive smells, and exemption from fever, so much so as to excite 
 the surprise and secure the approbation of many of those who were 
 opposed to the introduction of these improvements when first proposed. 
 Describe the drainage of the Model Lodging house ? The drain is 
 a 14-irich arched drain, with an iron bottom ; it commences at the 
 water-closets, and runs under the south end of the lower and smaller 
 ward a distance of one hundred feet. Several smaller drains open into 
 it from adjacent houses, which are insufficient for carrying off all the 
 soil and refuse, especially as they often get choked by old clothes thrown 
 
 * One of the impositions attempted to be practised by the applicants was simulating itch, those 
 affected with that disease having sixpence and a ration of bread given to them and sent away. It 
 happened one evening that while examining one of these cases, I discovered some minute portions of a 
 glittering dust on the skin, surrounded by small inflamed specks, discharging an ichorous fluid exactly 
 like that of itch. I found the small particles were broken down straws, and that it was the irritation 
 they occasioned that gave rise to the belief of the itch being so abundant as generally imagined. 
 Wherever straw is used as bedding, I have no doubt similar mistakes will be made. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 29 
 
 into the privies by the ragged casual lodgers who occupy the adjacent 
 tenements, which are principally low common lodging houses. It is 
 therefore necessary to have a cesspool to receive these habiliments, 
 which must accumulate in extraordinary quantities, as I saw nearly a 
 cart-load, which had been fished out of the drains leading into others 
 of the lodging houses. On one occasion the adjacent houses were 
 flooded with foul fetid fluid, in consequence of an obstruction which it 
 was alleged our alterations of the drain had occasioned ; an allegation 
 which was found to be wholly incorrect, when at our own expense, the 
 nuisance was removed. On enquiring whether such an obstruction had 
 ever occurred before, we were informed that it had very frequently. 
 The measures we have taken, will now permit all the soil to be sus- 
 pended in water, and carried away to the common sewer, all the water 
 used in the Model Lodging house flowing in that direction. 
 
 Describe the drainage of the East asylum for the Houseless Poor 7 
 The drain is eighteen inches diameter and one hundred and twenty 
 feet long; the water runs into the water closet from the cistern, and 
 from the baths and washing tubs into the common sewer in East Smith- 
 field. It, likewise, is often choked with rags and old clothing, so lhat 
 it is necessary also to have a receptacle from which they can be taken. 
 The quantity of water sent down the drain suspends and carries away 
 all offensive matter-so effectually as to keep the building free from smell, 
 although sometimes nearly four hundred persons have been contained 
 in it. 
 
 Describe the water closets of the asylum? The first water closet for 
 the men is six feet high, four feet wide ; the second, six feet high, four 
 feet wide. Each closet is fitted with two seats covered by flaps. When 
 the flap is raised by means of a small chain, one end of which is at- 
 tached to a valve in the cistern, and the other fixed to the flap, the 
 valve is lifted sufficiently to allow a run of water to commence and 
 continue during the whole of the time the flap is up ; and when it falls 
 the flow of water does not cease immediately, as the portion between 
 the closet and the tank has to find an outlet. The third water closet, 
 for the women, is five feet high, three feet wide. It is fitted in the 
 same manner as that for the men, and terminates in it. 
 
 Have you not some of the dirtiest population in the country 1 I 
 think it would be difficult to find them worse than the majority are 
 when they first apply for admission to the asylum. 
 
 Judging from your experience, is there any warrant for the hypothe- 
 
30 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sis or apprehension expressed in the city of London and other places, 
 that the water-closet principle could not be economically applied in 
 courts and alleys, and that cesspools might be discontinued by some form 
 of soil -pan apparatus, so that all refuse might at once be removed by 
 suspension in water? I think there are no just grounds for such hypo- 
 thesis or apprehensions, as lam convinced that, by interposing gratings 
 at particular places in the course of the drains to intercept bulky arti- 
 cles, there would be little difficulty in washing everything offensive 
 away. To effect this object without a cesspool at all, I caused rods to 
 be placed across the commencement of the drain in the asylum, which 
 for a long- time prevented the necessity of opening the drain ; and the 
 improvement I purpose to effect in the drainage of the Model Lodging- 
 house and the asylum is to have similar bars established. While on 
 this subject, I would also mention, that as the very poor are indifferent 
 with regard to bad smells, unless watched they will frequently leave 
 the flap open. To prevent this, the flaps are so hinged as to be higher 
 at the back than front, or a piece of wood is made to project from the 
 wall, whereby they fall down of themselves after being raised, and the 
 flow of water from the cistern is shut off in time to prevent waste. 
 
 From your own observation, is disease lessened by attention to clean- 
 liness in courts and alleys? I have not the least doubt of it; for I 
 have seen disease greatly lessened by getting the poor to become more 
 cleanly in their dwellings and in the courts adjoining them. 
 
 Do you believe that an ample and convenient supply of water in 
 rooms occupied by the laboring classes would have a sanitary effect ? 
 I feel assured it would be one of the greatest improvements which could 
 be effected ; as, from the water being on for but a limited time in the 
 day or week, I know that sooner than undergo the hardship of waiting 
 for, and carrying it, in many instances it is dispensed with until the 
 small stock kept for culinary purposes is exhausted or becomes perfectly 
 unfit for use. 
 
 Describe the bathing and washing apparatus in Glasshouse yard. 
 There is a small boiler of one-horse power for the purpose of generat- 
 ing steam. The sleam passes from the boiler through a pipe running 
 the whole length of the upper part of the boiler, giving off in its 
 course branches terminating in tubs fitted with lids* These tubs can 
 be used in the first instance for washing the clothes, and afterwards as 
 boilers, by shutting down the lids. There are likewise three open 
 tubs, one to each boiler, for the purpose of rinsing the clothes, after 
 
METROPOLITAN SANATORY COMMISSIONERS. 31 
 
 they are boiled, in cold water. A cold-water pipe runs alongside of 
 the steam-pipe, and also branches off to various tubs. The main steam- 
 pipe then dips under the floor, and is carried into an adjoining ward, 
 where four double tubs of the same kind are fitted up and in constant 
 use. It also supplies and heats two baths in that ward. On the right- 
 hand side of the boiler, the steam passes through a pipe into two baths 
 near the boiler, and into two in another ward. A pipe leading from 
 the upper part of the boiler terminates in a water-cask, placed at such 
 a height as to ensure a pressure rather under that of the safety-valve : 
 by this plan a useless escape of steam is prevented, an additional safe- 
 ty-valve which can never set fast is given. By this device, too, there 
 is always a large quantity of hot water ready for bathing or filling the 
 boiler. To guard as far as possible against accidents, there is added a 
 vacuum valve to prevent collapse of the boiler. 
 
 How many baths are there 1 Six ; two of wood, two of sheet iron 
 and two of brick covered with cement. 
 
 Judging from experience, which of these baths do you find most 
 useful ? The brick baths, as they are sooner heated, and retain the 
 heat longer than either those of wood or iron. 
 
 What means are provided for drying the clothes'? There is an ap- 
 paratus, the invention of Messrs. Davison and Symington, for drying, 
 by sending a current of heated air through a chamber. This plan was 
 intended in the first instance to be used for drying wood. Conceiving 
 that it might be applied with great advantage to drying clothes, I pro- 
 posed its being added to the plan I had formed of heating the baths 
 and tubs by the direct introduction of steam. The suggestion was acted 
 upon and is now at work in the new baths and wash house, and proves 
 exceedingly efficacious. I believe this to be a most valuable sanitary 
 agent, as it not only dries and ventilates the clothes, but can be raised 
 to such a temperature as to decompose or render innoxious offensive or 
 unhealthy matters which may be lurking in them. On a wet evening, 
 when the clothes of the inmates of the Eastern Asylum have been 
 saturated with rain, the usual washing of clothes has been sometimes 
 suspended, and drying only had recourse to. At these times the clothes 
 were taken out of the heated chamber, feeling softer and smelling far 
 less offensively than when washed in the way they are generally done 
 among the poor. 
 
 What were the effects of the bathing and washing upon the inmates 
 of the Houseless Poor Asylum 1 As I have already mentioned, a very 
 
32 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 great improvement in personal appearance, the almost total disappear- 
 ance of vermin and of itch, the removal of unpleasant smells, and the 
 diminution of febrile disease. Indeed, I feel convinced that, had it not 
 been for the bathing- and the washing in the asylum during the past 
 season, fever of a very malignant character would have broken out and 
 spread among the inmates; there being an extraordinary influx of 
 Irish applicants, many of whom were laboring under that disease when 
 they applied, or were taken ill so soon after admission, that it became 
 necessary to take them under treatment, from the impossibility of get- 
 ting them into hospitals. 
 
 What is the apparent effect on the health of the bathers and washers 
 generally ? All of them speak in high terms of their good effects ; 
 and I have heard many of them say, that they are sure, if they could 
 not have got their clothes washed, the fever would have been very 
 bad among them ; there is so much of it about. 
 
 How much filth is due to occupations, and how much to the soot and 
 dirt of the ill-cleaned rooms and courts 1 I believe that it is fully as 
 much owing to the dirty state of their rooms, courts and alleys, as to 
 their occupations, as may be seen in the condition of the women and 
 children. 
 
 If the streets were well scraped, washed and cleansed, would there not 
 be a considerable diminution of dirt on the skin, clothes, and furniture 1 
 Most assuredly there would. In some of the arguments brought 
 forward in favor of street cleansing, it is stated that the loss and damage 
 done to goods and furniture had been very great. 
 
 Have the poor themselves observed the difference in amount of the 
 lasting of clean, compared with dirty linen ? I have often heard it 
 remarked that, owing to the clothes, " having the. dirt so ingrained into 
 them" in London, they were soon rubbed t'o pieces. 
 
 What is the comparison between the expense of washing required in 
 London and one living in Manchester or Hull ? I cannot make the 
 comparison; but I have often heard it said, that clothes kept clean as 
 long again, especially linen, in the country as in London. And from 
 what I have myself seen, I am sure this is no exaggeration. 
 
 Can any opinion be formed of the reduction of washing by the re- 
 moval of the smoke nuisance 1 I expect there would be nearly one- 
 half; the difference in the dirt of the town and country being chiefly 
 owing to the greater quantity of carbonaceous and other blackening 
 m afters contained in coal smoke. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 33 
 
 What is the estimate of the amount of washing, and wear and tear 
 of linen, from defective street cleansing, and amount of smoke ? From 
 any enquiries I have been able to make I find that the cost of wash- 
 ing and ironing for families in ordinary circumstances may be averaged 
 at 20/. a-year at least; some paying 15., others 20/., 30/., 40/., and 
 larger sums. 
 
 What is the prime cost of a warm bath? In Glasshouse-yard, Id. 
 
 What is the prime cost of washing ? A sufficient supply of hot 
 water and tubs can be furnished at Id. for two hours' Ayashing. 
 
 What would be the saving if the clothes were washed wholesale? 
 I should think at least one-half. 
 
 What return would make baths and washhouses self-supporting? 
 About Id. for every two hours of washing ; and, as before stated, Id. for 
 each bath. 
 
 Would filtering the water not be a great improvement? It would; 
 as, the purer the water is, the less chance there would be of its contain- 
 ing anything capable of producing soil or stain. 
 
 In irritation of the skin, what substitute may be used for soap ? I 
 have generally found thin gruel an excellent substitute, and sometimes, 
 especially where there are sores or wounds, nothing answers better than 
 soap in shaving than good olive oil. 
 
 What soaps are least irritating ? This will depend greatly upon the 
 condition of the skin. I have seen the common yellow soap destroy 
 the cuticle of the hands of washerwomen, while the mottled soap pro- 
 duced no such effect ; and I have known where a troublesome, and 
 long-continued eruption on the face, was always relieved, and nearly 
 removed by the use of coarse yellow soap. I suspect that many of the 
 perfumed soaps, owing to the essential oils they contain, must often 
 increase irritation. I am told that it may be given as a general rule, 
 that the longer common soaps are kept they will become the milder. 
 
 Will they have the greatest stimulating effect, during infancy, child- 
 hood, or adolescence? During infancy and childhood. It is not 
 unusual to be compelled to leave off using soap in the cutaneous erup- 
 tions of infancy and childhood, from the great irritation it excites. 
 That it is capable of exciting considerable irritation is proved by the 
 smarting it occasions when, by chance, it comes in contact with the 
 surface of the eye, or when it gets up the nostrils. 
 
 Among what class are the habits of cleanliness most easily pro- 
 moted ? Among the poor ; for if encouraged they will eagerly avail 
 
34 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 themselves of opportunities of cleansing themselves, as is evidenced 
 by the fact that thirty-four thousand eight hundred and forty-three 
 have bathed, &c., thirty-eight thousand four hundred and forty-five 
 washed and dried their clothes, and eleven thousand two hundred and 
 ninety-six ironed them during the second year of the free baths ; and 
 many hundreds have purified their dwellings by the gift of a little 
 whitewash and the loan of pails and brushes. I have found that the 
 young are more eager for bathing than those further advanced in life ; 
 and I have every reason to believe that the rising generation are ac- 
 quiring a taste for bathing, sufficient to render it a necessary of life 
 instead of one of the luxuries. Concerning the washing of clothes, I am 
 of opinion that it might be accomplished without rubbing them in the 
 usual manner, without beating them with machinery, and without any 
 injurious chemical agent. An experiment which I purpose making this 
 week will enable me to ascertain whether my conjecture be a correct 
 one. 
 
 No. 2. 
 ROBERT LITTLE HOOPER, ESQ., SURGEON. 
 
 Where do you practise? In the London-road, in the parish of St. 
 George, South wark, where I have been parish surgeon for nearly 
 twenty years. I am assistant-surgeon to the Queen's Bench Prison ; 
 I have also a large private practice in the neighborhood, which is ne- 
 cessarily chiefly amongst the laboring classes, the population not 
 being a rich one. 
 
 You of course remember the visit of the cholera ? Yes, I was sur- 
 geon to the Cholera Hospital at St. George's Fields, which was the first 
 establishment of the kind in London. There were one hundred and 
 thirty-eight patients admitted into the hospital during the months of 
 February and March, of whom one hundred and seventeen died. They 
 were not, however, taken there until they were in the last stage of the 
 disease. The average deaths amongst those attacked in the neighbor- 
 hood was about one in three. 
 
 That is to say, of those who did not go to the hospital? The parish 
 of St. George was one of those which were the first and the most se- 
 verely visited, was it not ? Yes, it was ; I had under my own attend- 
 ance upwards of 2,000 cases during the prevalence of the epidemic. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 35 
 
 What was the condition of the persons and places which the cholera 
 most severely visited 1 The majority of those attacked were the occu- 
 pants of Kent street, the Mint, and other courts and alleys in the 
 parish. They were filthy in their habits, living in confined and im- 
 pure air ; their habits were the worst possible ; they were in a state of 
 susceptibility to any disease which happens to be floating about in the 
 atmosphere ; there were many vagrants and mendicants inhabiting the 
 low lodging houses, where they sleep for a penny or two-pence the 
 night ; they were wretchedly destitute. 
 
 How were their habitations in respect to drainage ? Many of them 
 had not even cesspools, the soil was oozing from a corner and through the 
 pavement of the courts ; where there were cesspools, they were in very 
 bad condition, seldom or ever emptied. 
 
 How were they as to supplies of water 1 Almost destitute of water. 
 
 In what condition were the pavements in and about the courts and 
 residences 1 The pavements were nearly all broken up. Within the 
 dwellings, there was no boarding to the floors of many of the houses, 
 the inmates slept on the earth, on a few shavings generally. 
 
 What is the present condition of the same district? A little im- 
 proved, but not much : in some courts it is now even in a worse state. 
 I will mention, as an example, Three Tuns Court in White street, in 
 which there are about 15 houses and probably 150 inhabitants, princi- 
 pally Irish. There is but one privy, and that without covering ; the 
 fluid soil is running down the court in front of all the houses. They 
 have no water but what they beg from the neighbors. Several of the 
 houses are entirely without windows or floors, that is, without boarding 
 on the floors. The proprietor of the court is said to be in prison for 
 debt. The people crowd in there because they pay no rent. There 
 is no person responsible for them, and no law to enforce proper sanitary 
 measures. The Court-Leet, the Commissioners, the Magistrates, and 
 the Commissioners of the Borough pavements, have been applied to 
 but there is no law to compel any one to put the place in a condition 
 fitting for human habitation. I can, however, adduce examples of 
 other courts, not quite in so bad a condition, but still deplorable, where 
 the inhabitants do pay rents, and high rents, too, compared with the 
 nature of the accommodation. 
 
 It is almost unnecessary to ask you whether these places are and 
 have been the abodes of typhus? Constantly; they are never free 
 from it. 
 
36 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Suppose that cholera were again to visit this country, would you ex- 
 pect it in those places as before 1 No doubt of it. 
 
 Had you much typhus fever during the prevalence of cholera? No, 
 typhus certainly did not prevail as an epidemic during the prevalence 
 of cholera. 
 
 Had you many cases in which those who were attacked with cholera, 
 but did not die, fell into typhus'? A few, but not generally. 
 
 Do you think epidemic cholera took the place, during this period, of 
 epidemic typhus 1 It is certain that cholera attacked the same descrip- 
 tion of persons, and prevailed in the same localities as typhus, while 
 few or no cases of typhus were observed when cholera was at its 
 highest. 
 
 Have you any instance in your district in which improved drainage, 
 supply of water, and ventilation, has been followed by a diminished 
 susceptibility to epidemic diseases 1 I am sorry to say that I know of 
 no places in which any material improvement of any kind has taken 
 place; in regard to draining, supply of water, and ventilation, the dis- 
 trict remains in the same wretched state. 
 
 Have you any doubt that improvement in these modes of cleanliness 
 would be followed by a corresponding diminution of fever cases ? I 
 have no doubt of it. 
 
 Were these places properly drained, paved, cleansed, and supplied 
 with water, and should cholera again reappear in the metropolis, would 
 you expect to find any difference in the number and severity of your 
 cholera cases 1 I should expect a great diminution, both in the num- 
 ber and intensity of the cases. 
 
 Do you think the description of persons who now live in those 
 places, and who would probably become the first victims of cholera, 
 should it again visit the metropolis, would appreciate the value of these 
 means of prevention? I am persuaded the great majority of them 
 would . 
 
 The persons who reside in the streets and courts in your district 
 appear to be among those that live in a state of the greatest filth and 
 wretchedness to be found in the metropolis. Do you think that even 
 those persons would avail themselves of the means of greater cleanli- 
 ness if they were afforded them ? I think they would to a very con- 
 siderable extent. I think the fault is not in the people so much as in 
 their want of means. These people can procure no water (even when 
 it is to be got) without very great labor. The woman is always obliged 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 37 
 
 to carry it up stairs ; consequently she is very sparing in the use of it ; 
 and those stairs are common to all the families in the house, so that no 
 one thinks it her duty to wash them. I have have been often struck 
 with the filthy state of the water in the rooms ; even that for drinking, 
 and other domestic use, has an offensive odor, from having absorbed the 
 foul air of the room, though, indeed, water for drinking or even wash- 
 ing the hands is seldom to be found ; if I ask for it I have generally to 
 wait till it is fetched . Then again, I often find a tub of exceedingly 
 filthy water which has been used over and over again, on the landing 
 place outside of the rooms, the odor from which is most offensive. It 
 is also very common to find the clothes which have been washed in this 
 filthy water, drying in the room ; the evaporation from these clothes I 
 regard as most pernicious, and in the room in which the air is poisoned 
 in this way there may be two or three children ill in bed, or perhaps 
 the father or mother ill with typhus fever. 
 
 So that in this district also, these poor people have the like difficulty 
 in obtaining pure water, and in getting rid of their foul water ? Yes, 
 they have. 
 
 What were the means adopted as measures of alleviation during the 
 prevalence of cholera in your district? A local Board of Health was 
 appointed, consisting of persons who had passed the office of church- 
 warden or overseer ; the vestry clerk assisted them as the clerk of the 
 Board, and the two parish surgeons, Mr. Evans and myself, undertook 
 the medical duties. This Board engaged an isolated house, situated 
 opposite Bethlehem, completely surrounded by a wall. The Board 
 fitted up the hospital with beds and other necessaries for the reception 
 of cholera patients. The vestry refused to supply funds for this hos- 
 pital, which were at length obtained by an order of the Privy Council, 
 that they should be paid out of the poor's-rates. Every thing was paid 
 for, except the services of the surgeons, which were most laborious and 
 incessant. Being parish surgeons, we were told that, as we had con- 
 tracted to attend all the poor for a certain salary, the breaking out of 
 cholera in our parish was our misfortune, the Board "would have 
 their bond." 
 
 Were the poorer classes willing or unwilling to avail themselves of 
 the privilege of going into this hospital? They were very unwilling 
 to go, in consequence of the number of deaths that took place there 5 
 it obtained a bad reputation^ and many positively refused to go. Still, 
 the hospital was generally full, partly from those who Were quite desti- 
 3 
 
38 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 tute of friends, and partly from those who were sent there by families 
 who were afraid of contagion. 
 
 From what you saw of the effect of this cholera hospital, what was 
 your impression as to its influence on the disease? Little or no advan- 
 tage was obtained in the cure of the disease, although every suggestion 
 made by science at the time was put into operation there ; and the poor 
 had certainly many comforts and appliances which they could not ob- 
 tain at their own homes. As I have already stated, the mortality was 
 far greater in the hospital than in private dwellings ; but then they 
 seldom entered the hospital until they were in the last stage of the 
 disease . 
 
 Did you observe any instances in which fear and terror seemed to 
 have much effect in promoting an attack of the disease 1 Yes ; I saw 
 several striking instances of it. Great nervous depression appeared to 
 favor the production of the disease in a remarkable manner. 
 
 You have had many opportunities of becoming acquainted with the 
 dispositions and habits of the poorer classes, what is your opinion as to 
 the effect which the general adoption of the means of prevention com- 
 pared with the adoption of the means of alleviation would have upon 
 their minds? I think the means of prevention, that is, the means of 
 putting their localities and houses into a cleaner and more wholesome 
 state, would have the best effect upon their minds, and that they would 
 enter into these measures with great alacrity. Certainly they would do 
 so if they understood that they were adopted with a view to prevent 
 cholera or any other epidemic disease ; whereas they had no faith in 
 the cholera hospital, and entered it with the greatest relucfance. My 
 colleague and myself, who were attached to this hospital, lost nearly all 
 our practice at the time, for the poor said we killed them 3 and the bet- 
 ter classes were afraid we should kill them by contagion. 
 
 Is it your opinion, from what you observed of the progress of the 
 disease, that cholera spread from contact of the sick with the healthy? 
 No. I believe it to be an atmospheric poison, aggravated by the 
 filthy condition of the localities in which it most prevails. 
 
 Do you think the present state of the intelligence of the poorer 
 classes is such as to enable them to understand and appreciate this 
 truth? Yes, I do. 
 
 What do you think would be the social and moral effect of this 
 opinion becoming prevalent among them ? I think the effect would be, 
 that they would readily assist in carrying out any measures suggested 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 39 
 
 for their protection and safety against the disease. I daily see the per- 
 nicious effects of their belief in contagion. I see patients affected 
 with typhus and other epidemic diseases neglected, and even aban- 
 doned, sometimes by relatives and friends, and always by neighbors, 
 from the apprehension that they shall themselves become the subjects 
 of the disease . In reply to inquiries made to me, as to the nature of 
 the disease with which their inmate or neighbor may be affected, I am 
 always afraid to say it is a case of fever ; for if I do, the patient is sure 
 to be abandoned. 
 
 Do you say sure to be abandoned 1 A devoted friend may continue 
 to assist and nurse at her own risk; but this is not common ; it is an 
 exception to the rule. 
 
 Have you read the evidence of Mr. Bowie 1 Will you state how far 
 you coincide in opinion with him 1 My experience is in consonance 
 with his generally. From the Registrar-General's returns, it appears 
 that the attacks of epidemics in the districts fell as follows : in St. 
 George's (judging from the year 1839 :) 
 
 Proportion per Cent, 
 of Deaths from Epi- 
 demics to total Deaths. 
 
 Gentry ; with whom are classed all professional 
 
 persons and persons not in business, 10 
 
 Tradesmen, 15 
 
 Artizans, 25 
 
 Persons undescribed, 20 
 
 Are these such proportions as from their relative circumstances 
 you would expect ? Yes, certainly. The proportions per cent., of 
 deaths of children under ten years of age to the total deaths, were as 
 follows : 
 
 Gentry, 22 
 
 Tradesmen, 55 
 
 Artizans, 65 
 
 Undescribed, 21 
 
 Is this what you would expect of the relative effect in infantile life 
 of the difference of the condition 1 I should have expected that the 
 deaths of the children of artizans would have borne a larger propor- 
 tion than they appear to bear in the face of the returns. The average 
 age of death amongst all classes, including children, appear to have 
 stood thus in St. George's : 
 
 Gentry 45 
 
 Tradesmen. .........*.*.< 30 
 
 Artizans., , 20 
 
40 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The average age of all classes who died, being, in your district, 
 twenty-three ; whereas, in better conditioned suburban districts in the 
 metropolis, it appears to be as high as thirty-four and thirty-six : are 
 these results in coincidence with your own observations ? I think 
 they are; but there are in operation, in this district, causes which affect 
 all classes, rich and poor. 
 
 What is the condition of the district in respect to house and street 
 drainage? the houses are very badly drained; they have mostly cess- 
 pools, very few draining into any sewers ; but the most depressing 
 influence upon the health, arises from the number of open sewers 
 which surround and intersect the district ; these ditches and sewers are 
 sluggish, and evolve noxious gases. Typhus fever is always prevalent 
 in the vicinity. 
 
 What is the condition of the covered sewers ? They emit very offen- 
 sive effluvia. In the house in which I live we have experience of it. 
 When the wind is in particular directions, we have a severe experience 
 of it. 
 
 Do you consider it of advantage, in the present state of the sewers, 
 to open any communication with them ? I have been led to consider 
 that point, and to doubt it very much ; more particularly since the storm 
 of August, 1846, when the water from the sewers was conducted from 
 the drains into the houses, and burst through them. A number of 
 houses were flooded with sewer water ; mine was saturated throughout, 
 four feet deep. The walls have not yet got rid of the stench. 
 
 What was the condition of those houses which had no <) ruins to join 
 on with the sewers? They were certainly better off; ilny had none 
 of the sewer water. 
 
 No. 3. 
 
 DR. MURDOCH, OF ROTHERHITHE. 
 
 How long have you practiced in Rotherhithe? Between fourteen 
 and fifteen years. 
 
 Were you there at the time of the visitation of the cholera? I was 
 there only at the time of its close, in January, 1833, when there were 
 only a few straggling cases, such as appear at the end of an epidemic. 
 I had been previously thirteen years in Paris. I had been two years 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 41 
 
 as externe, or dresser, and four years as interne and house surgeon, in 
 the large French hospitals. I was there during the dreadful attack of 
 cholera, in 1832. 
 
 Will you describe the present condition of your district in respect to 
 disease? There has been more fever than usual within the last six 
 weeks. 
 
 What is the state of the locality where fever mostly prevails? The 
 houses are t.udly drained, badly supplied with water, and an open ditch 
 receives the contents of privies. There is a block of houses where the 
 privies hang over the ditch ; the paths in the fronts of the houses are 
 unpaved and filthy. The district of Rotherhithe is altogether excess- 
 ively ill drained, intersected with ditches and stagnant water. 
 
 In what respect has its condition been altered since the cholera last 
 visited it? A few of the sewers have been arched o-ver within the last 
 few years, and some new sewers constructed. In some parts they have 
 water laid on, which they had not before ; but some of the dwellings 
 are wretched hovels, as in the district of Kenning's buildings and 
 Norfolk place, in Swan lane. In that district, in which typhus is al- 
 ways most prevalent when in the neighborhood, one brother practi- 
 tioner, Mr. Chandler, attended ninety cases of typhus and typhoid 
 fever within twelve months. 
 
 Should cholera reappear, in what places would you expect it? I 
 expect it would follow the law of typhus and typhoid fever, and visit 
 that neighborhood, and others similarly situated, at first. Between 
 Staple's-rents and Lucas street there is a filthy ditch ; there is one in 
 Lower Rotherhithe street, opposite the playing place called the Pa- 
 geants ; another between Thames street and Russell street, Lower 
 Rotherhithe, and many others. Many of these places are below high- 
 water mark, and the houses are subject to inundations from these 
 sewers when the Thames overflows. The neighborhood is always 
 more unhealthy for a considerable time after such inundations, catarr- 
 hal and rheumatic affections prevailing. 
 
 You have read the evidence of Mr. Bowie with relation to the con- 
 dition of the district on the opposite side of the river. How far is it 
 parallel to that of Rotherhithe ? Rotherhithe is not so overcrowded > 
 there is more unoccupied ground about it, and a greater degree of dilu- 
 tion of the miasma, and I should riot expect the cholera to be so severe 
 in Rotherhithe, except" along the water-side. In the general conclu- 
 sions stated by M/. I^wia, t agree. In Paris, the cholera followed the 
 
 {T ^r ' 
 
42 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE .THE 
 
 same law as typhus, visiting most severely the Cite, the Faubourg St. 
 Marceau, and the crowded neighborhood at the back of the Hotel de 
 Ville, or Town-hall, the most filthy and ill-ventilated districts. For 
 several days the deaths were at the rate of from one thousand to one 
 thousand one hundred per diem. 
 
 No. 4. 
 
 MATTHEW FRENCH WAGSTAFFE, ESQ., 
 Police, District and Parochial Surgeon, Lambeth. 
 
 Where were you in practice when cholera prevailed in the metro- 
 polis in 1832? In South wark, Bermondsey, and Lambeth. 
 
 Did you see much of the disease ? Very much ; and I observed its 
 course along the edge of the river, and found that it prevailed princi- 
 pally in low marshy situations in crowded, ill-ventilated courts and 
 alleys. 
 
 What was the condition of the house and sewer drainage in the 
 streets, courts, and alleys in which the disease principally prevailed ? 
 The drainage was extremely bad ; the privies were very often in the 
 cellars. I have myself passed through two feet of water to get to the 
 houses, being obliged to walk along planks, and the door-ways of the 
 houses, at the time of high tide in Fore street, Lambeth, being blocked 
 up with boards and plaster, to prevent the water from getting into the 
 dwellings. This state continues occasionally at, the present time. 
 
 Are cesspools general in the district ? Yes, they are very general ; 
 and I have often seen the soil from these cesspools swimming about in 
 the water. 
 
 Are the houses in these localities in general damp and dirty? Yes, 
 they are ; and it is quite impossible for the inhabitants, under such 
 circumstances, to keep them dry and clean. 
 
 Whenever typhus is prevalent in the metropolis, is it in these locali- 
 ties that you constantly find it? Invariably, and common fever is 
 very apt, in these places, to assume a typhoid type. This is the case 
 at the present time with several cases now under my care. Scarlet 
 fever, measles, and small-pox also are very apt to become malignant 
 here. Under certain atmospheric conditions, for example, when I 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 43 
 
 arose in the morning, and found the atmosphere warm and moist, I 
 could always foretell that there would be an increase of malarian 
 disease of some, sort in these places, and that they would be more 
 intense in degree : so that, in this state of the atmosphere, I always 
 knew I should have more to do in these low, close, undrained, and 
 crowded places. 
 
 Are there any places in your district in which fever is constantly 
 present? Yes, there are ; several courts and streets in Lambeth walk, 
 also in some streets from Vauxhall Gardens, and in other places. 
 
 Is it in accordance with your observation and experience, that the 
 localities in which fever constantly prevails, were those in which this 
 particular epidemic, namely, cholera, chiefly raged? They are the 
 very same. I have, at the present moment, many cases of fever in the 
 very places in which cholera was most prevalent. This autumn diar- 
 rhea and dysentery have also been prevalent there, and some cases 
 were so similar to Asiatic cholera, that I asked some of my professional 
 brethren to go and see : two of these cases were fatal. They had, in 
 fact, all the characteristic symptoms vomiting, diarrhea, with rice- 
 colored evacutions, cramps, suppression of urine, the particular sunken 
 counlenance, giving the expression of age to the patient, with a livid 
 and even blue color. 
 
 Then you have no doubt that if Cholera were again to reappear in 
 your district, these would be the places which it would first visit, and 
 in which it would be most prevalent and fatal? I have no doubt of it. 
 
 Has the condition of your district been materially improved since the 
 last visitation of cholera? Additional common sewers have been 
 made, but in very few instances, indeed, have house drains been made 
 into them. Even large houses, in which the better classes live, have 
 no drains into the sewers. They continue to have nothing but cess- 
 pools ; water-closets are very rare, even in the better class of houses, 
 excepting in newly-built houses. 
 
 Then the streets, courts, and alleys in which the poor live are wholly 
 unimproved ? They are not improved ; indeed, being more crowde^, 
 they are even worse, and the quantity of decomposing animal and 
 vegetable matter about them is greater. Near the river's edge, be- 
 tween Westminster and Vauxhall Bridges, there are several depots or 
 manufactories very unwholesome, such as bone manure works, gas 
 works, and potteries, and it is a fact that the work-people die at an 
 early age. 
 
44 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Have you observed, in houses communicating with the sewers, any 
 instances of noisome smells arising from their foul condition ? Yes, 
 I have. 
 
 Is this common in the district? I have very frequently noticed it. 
 
 Are not the houses frequently flooded with sewer-water 3 as well as 
 subjected to poisonous smells? Yes, they are. 
 
 In such cases, is not the communication of the house with the sewers 
 of very doubtful benefit? In these cases it is certainly of doubtful 
 benefit. 
 
 What, according to your observation and experience, were the effects 
 of cholera hospitals ? By the congregation of great numbers together, I 
 think they must have been injurious, and it is certain that the disease 
 provedjmore fatal in those hospitals than in private houses, however 
 poor. 
 
 Is not the unventilated and crowded condition of ships often sufficient 
 to produce fever? Yes ; I have known several instances of the spon- 
 taneous generation of fever in ships ; and in one case, which came 
 under the observation of my father, small-pox broke out in a vessel 
 which had not communicated or spoke with any other vessel for three 
 weeks. 
 
 Is not the condition of ships very often quite as favorable to the 
 generation and spread of fever and other epidemic diseases as the close, 
 unventilated, and crowded abodes of the poor on shore ? Yes, decided- 
 ly so. 
 
 Were not the poor very unwilling to go into the cholera hospital? 
 Very unwilling indeed. 
 
 If general and systematic measures of prevention were adopted, do 
 you think the poorer classes would place greater confidence in them 
 and co-operate in carrying them out more readily than experience has 
 shown they did with reference to the measures of alleviation which 
 were proposed ? Yes, I think they would, most decidedly. If, for 
 example, comprehensive and efficient means were taken to cleanse the 
 surface of their streets and courts, to wash out their cesspools, to supply 
 them with abundance of water for cleansing the interior of their houses, 
 and for the immediate removal of all descriptions of filth, I think they 
 would have more confidence in measures of this kind than in any thing 
 which was formerly suggested or tried for their relief. 
 
 And do you think they would co-operate in promoting the success of 
 such measures? I feel very confident that they would. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 45 
 
 What is the state of the paving in your district? There has been 
 some improvement ; but a large portion of the district still remains in 
 a very unsatisfactory and uncertain state. 
 
 Do you know whether there is any material improvement in the 
 sewerage, drainage, and cleaning of Bermondsey since the last visita- 
 tion of cholera 1 More sewers have been made ; but there still exist 
 great numbers of uncovered sewers and ditches. There are great 
 numbers of courts and alleys in which there are no drains, and fever 
 of a typhoid character is existing in those places to a great extent, at 
 this present time ; and I have seldom or never known Bermondsey 
 without it. 
 
 Though there may be more sewers 3 if there is no greater flow of 
 water through them, the population having considerably increased, 
 are not those sewers mischievous rather than beneficial in consequence 
 of containing a greater quantity of decomposing matter 1 If the supply 
 of water is not increased in proportion to the enlargement of the sew- 
 ers, the sewers must act as extended cesspools. 
 
 From the Registrar-General's return, taking one year, the year 1839, 
 it appears that the proportion per cent., of the deaths of children under 
 ten years of age to the total deaths in Lambeth of the children of each 
 class of society, classing as gentry the persons following professions, or 
 persons living in independent circumstances, were as follows : 
 
 Gentry 31.2 
 
 Tradesmen , 57.1 
 
 Artizans 60 
 
 Are these results conformable to your observation of the different sani- 
 tary condition of the several classes of society there ? They are ; they 
 are similar to a return which I made myself. 
 
 It appears that at Lambeth the average age of death of all who die 
 is twenty-four, whilst at Camberwell it is thirty-four, and at Hackney 
 thirty-one ; that in Lambeth the average age of all who die is of the 
 first class thirty-seven, of the second twenty-one, and of the third 
 class, the artizans, 20 ; do these differences coincide with the differ- 
 ences of sanitary condition of the several classes? I think they do. 
 
 It appears from the Registrar-General's return that the average age of 
 death in Bermondsey is lower than in Lambeth, being twenty-two 
 years for the whole population. This you would expect from the com- 
 parative sanitary condition of the population ? Yes 3 I should. 
 
46 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 And so in respect to the proportion of attacks of epidemics to the 
 total deaths which appear to have been in Bermondsey as follows : 
 
 Gentry 
 
 Tradesmen 12.8 
 
 Artizans 25 
 
 Yes. 
 
 No. 5. 
 THOMAS ROBINSON LEADAM, ESQ., SURGEON. 
 
 You are surgeon to the Poor Law Union of St. Olave's, Southwark, 
 are you not? Yes, I am. 
 
 How long have you practiced in that neighborhood? Fifteen years. 
 My practice is at present in every condition of society. 
 
 What part had you in meeting the visitation of the cholera ? The 
 work-house was parted off as a cholera hospital. I had partly charge 
 of it, and of the outdoor district. 
 
 Was that district very severely visited ? It was certainly one of the 
 districts the most severely visited in the metropolis. 
 
 What were the descriptions of places and the classes of persons then 
 most severely attacked ? It was chiefly in the filthy dens which we 
 have about us, close courts and alleys ; those inhabited by the Irish are 
 the most filthy. 
 
 How far has the condition of those places been amended since then 1 
 Very little. 
 
 What is the condition of those places in respect to the supply of 
 wa ter ? The houses are not supplied at all. Here and there there is 
 a plug in the middle of the street, or the middle of the turning, from 
 which those fetch water who can. 
 
 What is the condition of the place in respect to house and street 
 drainage? Cesspools are general? the house drainage is excessively 
 bad ? we are surrounded by open ditches, frequently filled with black 
 offensive matter, the water sometimes washing it away, sometimes not, 
 and sometimes, on the occasions of high floods, running into the houses. 
 The water used to flow up further, and wash better ; but on one occa- 
 sion it overflowed a great extent, and means were taken'to confine it ; 
 and those means have diminished the run of water, and the ditches are 
 at times stagnant, although this has nothing to do with the flow of 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 47 
 
 water in the sewers, the latter taking off the deep drainage, the former 
 the superficial. The effluvia given off from the gully grates is very 
 offensive indeed. I can speak now particularly of one before my own 
 house. It really makes me sick to go out of my door at times. This 
 effluvia is generally productive of disordered health ; it induces a low 
 nervous condition and chronic dyspepsia. 
 
 Was the cholera track and the typhus track in your district nearly 
 identical 1 With us it was so decidedly. 
 
 What are your anticipations as respects any future visitation 1 As 
 far as respects the nidus it will find, and in the sanitary condition of the 
 population, I do not believe that, speaking generally, there has been 
 the least improvement. 
 
 What improvements would you consider available for prevention? 
 In respect to the open ditches, arching them over and conducting a 
 stream of water through them, so as to carry off the impurities ; a better 
 water supply to the houses ; and the removal of cesspools and better 
 paving, as well as scavenging for the courts ; and the compelling the 
 landlords to form proper communications from the houses with the sew- 
 ers, so that some outlet may be made for offensive matters. 
 
 Have any applications, within your knowledge, been made to the 
 Commissioners of Sewers for any remedy? I do not remember at pre- 
 sent any particular cases. I believe that Mr. Newman, who is the 
 Surveyor to the Commissioners of Sewers, has been applied to ; but he 
 states that nothing can be done to relieve the parish from the effluvia 
 arising from the sewers up the gratings. Since this statement was 
 made Mr. Newman has invented a trap, which is ordered to be applied 
 in the district, but he fears that the effect will be to drive the effluvia 
 along the drains into the dwelling-houses. 
 
 No. 6. 
 WILLIAM SIMPSON, ESQ. 
 
 You reside in High street, Bloomsbury, and are a surgeon in general 
 practice ? Yes ; I am. 
 
 You are well acquainted with the neighborhood of St. Giles, are you 
 not? Yes; I have been well acquainted with it since 1829. 
 
 Were you called on to attend cases there on the appearance of the 
 cholera in 1832? Yes ; I was. I attended the first two cases which 
 
48 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 occurred in St. Giles', at No. 14 Buckeridge street, both of which 
 were females, and died. The cases became so numerous, and it was 
 so difficult to get hot applications, and steady attention to orders, we 
 were compelled to have an hospital erected in the Stone-yard, now part 
 of Bloomsbury street. 
 
 Did the hospital seem to lessen the average number of deaths ? No ; 
 its being in the same locality, and subject to the same atmospheric in- 
 fluences, prevented that result, but it was much more convenient for 
 two or three physicians, who, after the heat of the battle and danger 
 was over, reaped the credit. 
 
 What description of persons, and in what localities were the chief 
 attacks of cholera? Precisely the same description of persons, and in 
 the same localities, where typhus, influenza, and scarlatina assume the 
 putrid type. The places most visited were Buckeridge street, Bain- 
 bridge street, Lawrence street, and Church street. Not one of these 
 streets had a sewer, and not a house in them had a drain. All had 
 cellars inhabited, and every room occupied by different families. The 
 filth and dirt before the doors was dreadful, and the stench overpower- 
 ing. 
 
 What is the present condition of these localities 1 All except Church 
 street, and part of Lawrence street, have been pulled down and re- 
 placed by New Oxford street. Church street remains in the same state 
 of horrible filth, indeed rather worse, from overcrowding, consequent 
 upon removal of other streets, the constant residence of typhus and 
 every malignant disease that sweeps through the metropolis. 
 
 Have the late alterations improved the general health of the neigh- 
 borhood ? I should say yes, so far as we have now greater currents of 
 pure air from above ; but so long as these localities remain without 
 sewers, and the present sewers remain as they are, 1 do not expect any 
 permanent improvement. 
 
 Why so 1 Because, when the wind blows in certain directions, the 
 stench is thrown back through the privies and water-closets, and the 
 supply of water being limited, accumulations take place, particularly 
 in the months of July and August, beneath the kitchens, which taint 
 meat, and therefore taint also the blood of the living. 
 
 From what you state, the private houses of tradesmen and shop-keep- 
 ers, &c., is not much better than those of Church street ? I should 
 say very little better, but the wholesome diet, clothing, and fuel, along 
 with better ventilation, and more light, cause the diseases to assume a 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 49 
 
 less malignant type, and therefore fewer die of typhus, &c., but more 
 of pulmonary diseases and scrofulous affections ; the number of chil- 
 dren with deformed legs and spines is incredible, and all from the same 
 causes. 
 
 Have no attempts been made to remedy these evils ? If you will 
 allow me to state what happened to myself within the last three or four 
 years, it will apply to nearly all ray neighbors. About three years ago 
 I went to the expense of about .15, to have a sewer opened which 
 runs beneath my kitchen ; I was advised to have it lined with cement, 
 and all the rat holes filled up, supposing that, the old mortar having 
 fallen off, the stench penetrated up through the interstices. Little im- 
 provement took place. I then went to the office of the Commissioners 
 of Sewers, in Greek street, Soho, and inquired if they could do any- 
 thing for this ; they said no ; but if I chose to go to the expense of 
 j3, they would put a trap-door at the mouth of this branch sewer, 
 where it empties itself into the main sewer ; this, on consideration, I 
 declined, as the drains from three or four other houses would still be 
 running into mine, the cause would not be removed. The men at the 
 office tried to console me, because Earl Spencer was situated the same 
 as myself. He complained on the same day of the same kind of nui- 
 sance as I did, and they could not assist him. 
 
 Did you ever learn whether Lord Spencer got any thing done at his 
 own expense? I did not, but his Lordship, having the means of pay- 
 ing for large supplies of water, I dare say a trap would have been 
 useful in his case, although not in mine. 
 
 Have you read Mr. Bowie's statement before us? Yes ; I have. 
 
 Do you agree with it? I do. I have often heard of Mr. Bowie 
 being a kind man to the poor, and I am now equally pleased to find 
 he understands his profession so well. I found as much benefit from 
 the toast-water he speaks of, with hot pure air and bottles of hot water 
 to the feet and hands, as I did from any thing else, and were the cholera 
 again to occur, these, with calomel, would be my principal remedies. 
 
 What has been the effect of the removal of so many people from 
 your neighborhood ? The effect has been to lessen the population of 
 my neighborhood by about 5,000 individuals, and therefore to improve 
 it at the expense of other parts of London. 
 
 Where do you suppose these people have gone to ? Some to the 
 streets leading to Drury lane ; some to Saffron-hill ; some to St. Luke's ; 
 some to Whitechapel ; but more to St. Marylebone and St. Pancras* 
 
50 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What has been the effect of their going to those places 1 I find by 
 the papers, that the vestries of Marylebone and St. Pancras dislike 
 very much to be obliged to pay what Bloomsbury and St. Giles' vestries 
 have done without grumbling, all along. Places in these parishes which 
 were before bad enough, are now intolerable, from the number of poor 
 who formerly lived in St. Giles', and their friends who, during the last 
 two years, have come from Ireland ; I suppose it is the same in Clerk- 
 enwell and St. Luke's, but the reporters of the press do not take so 
 deep an interest in their proceedings as in Marylebone and St. Pan- 
 cras. 
 
 Have you still places in your neighborhood as bad as Buckeridge 
 street and Bainbridge street were? Yes; I consider the courts between 
 Crown street and High street, and Lascelles court, beside the work- 
 house, as bad, if not worse. 
 
 Do the guardians and medical officers at the work-house not see to 
 Lascelles court at least 1 No ; typhus is never absent from them ; Mr. 
 Marshall, a plumber and glazier in Broad street, has memorialized 
 them repeatedly without attending to his suggestions. 
 
 No. 7. 
 J. FRENCH, ESQ., SURGEON. 
 
 You are the surgeon to the parish of St. James, Westminster. I am ; 
 and I have charge of the infirmary there ; I am a general practitioner. 
 
 Were you surgeon to the parish at the time the cholera appeared 
 there ? I was. 
 
 Did you attend to the disease specially? I did ; and I have written 
 a book*about it, jn which I describe what I consider the best mode of 
 treatment. 
 
 What number of patients had you in the Cholera hospital at the 
 time? I think fifty during the three months ; the Cholera hospital 
 was only a receptable for the most urgent cases ; four district surgeons, 
 besides myself, attended parties at their own dwellings, and these con- 
 stituted by far the greater number of cases ; my impression was, that 
 the worst part of our parish was not so crowded as the corresponding 
 part of St. Giles' and some other localities, and that much was done by 
 the local authorities in the way of whitewashing and administering 
 generally to the wants of the most destitute, which was calculated to 
 render the visitation less severe. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 51 
 
 Has the general condition of the dwellings of the working classes 
 been improved since then in your parish ? Some few of the worst 
 constituted dwellings have been improved ; in many of them Mr. 
 Toynbee's ventilators have been introduced, which I believe, is felt to 
 be an improvement by the inhabitants of the rooms so ventilated ; but, 
 on the whole, the improvement has been very slow and very partial. 
 
 Have you read Mr. Bowie's evidence 1 I have. 
 
 Do you concur generally with him ? I do ; where typhus has pre- 
 vailed during this season, there I should expect to find a greater num- 
 ber of cases of cholera ; I believe that cholera is no more contagions 
 than typhus ; I believe, however, that both are capable of propagation 
 by contagion, though not to any extent under favorable hygienic cir- 
 cumstances. 
 
 You agree with Mr. Bowie, and other medical witnesses, in giving 
 the preference and the advantage to the measures of prevention 1 Un- 
 doubtedly ; particularly when those measures are highly advantageous 
 in themselves for all epidemics. 
 
 No. 8. 
 EDWARD DOUBLEDAY, ESQ. 
 
 You act as medical officer to the work-house of the union of St. Sa- 
 vior's in the Borough, do you not ? Yes, I do. 
 
 You were examined some four years ago in relation to the sanitary 
 condition of your district, were you not ? Yes, I was. 
 
 And you then described its sanitary condition in respect to sewerage 
 and drainage as very bad ? Yes. 
 
 In what respect has it been amended ? In consequence of the pub- 
 lic attention to questions of sanitary improvement, individuals have 
 here and there drained particular houses or places ; but the whole re- 
 mains very much in the same state as before. 
 
 You were a practitioner in the district when it was visited by cholera, 
 were you not 1 Yes, I was ; the visitation of the cholera in our district 
 was very severe. 
 
 Will you describe the places and the classes which it visited ? In 
 the parish of Christchurch and the neighborhood of Broadvvall, there 
 are open sewers j at Brunswick place there is another ; in these neigh- 
 
52 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 borhoods the cholera was unusually severe ; in one row of houses, 
 within two yards of the sewer, houses which are very miserable as re- 
 gards size, ventilation, and means of cleanliness, the mortality was ex- 
 cessive ; as many as five died in one house. 
 
 And that place remains without amendment 1 Just the same ; ex- 
 actly in the same state ; when certain atmospheric conditions prevail, 
 and typhus arises, it is always found much more in these districts, and 
 the result is more fatal. 
 
 If cholera should revisit the metropolis, what is your expectation in 
 respect to these districts 1 It would certainly be that the cases would 
 there be more numerous and fatal. 
 
 What is the bodily condition of the population resident upon them 1 
 They are sickly and miserable, the children poor and dwindling. 
 
 How is the paving and cleansing of the courts and alleys attended 
 to 1 In my own, I think it fairly done ; in others, abominably neg- 
 lected ; the great defect of the district, however, is the state of the 
 sewers and the house drains ; when we visit the houses of the lower 
 classes in these districts, we are met, or as the expression is, almost 
 knocked down by offensive smells ; on inquiring, we find that there is 
 some house-drain stopped up ; some cesspool deranged, or the cellar 
 flooded ; the lower offices of the houses in the neighborhood of Holland 
 street and the water side are subject to periodical floodings, and that 
 with very filthy water. 
 
 You have read the evidence of Mr. Bowie ? Yes, I have. 
 
 How far do you concur with him? All that he states is quite con- 
 sistent with my own experience. 
 
 From the Registrar-General's return, taking the year 1839, it ap- 
 peared that the average age of death amongst the chief classes of so- 
 ciety, including the deaths of children in St. Savior's, was as follows : 
 
 Premature Io8sof life 
 as compared with 
 
 Camberwell. 
 Years - Year.. 
 
 Gentry .......... .............. 47 
 
 Tradesmen ..................... 25 13 
 
 Artizans ....... ................ 22 17 
 
 Persons undescribed ............. 15 24 
 
 Does this mortality appear to represent the relative physical or sani- 
 tary condition of the dwellings 1 No doubt it does. 
 
 The relative infantile mortality appears to be, from the Registrar- 
 General's returns, as follows : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 53 
 
 Proportion per cent, of 
 
 deaths of children to 
 
 the total deaths of 
 
 each class. 
 
 Gentry 10 
 
 Tradesmen 48 
 
 Artisans. , 49 
 
 Undescribed 69 
 
 The deaths of adults above twenty-one years of age appeared to have 
 been as follows : 
 
 Premature loss of Life as corn- 
 Average Age pared with the loss of 
 of Death. Life at Camberwell. 
 
 Gentry 52 10 
 
 Tradesmen 52 10 
 
 Artisans 45 17 
 
 Undescribed , 51 11 
 
 The proportion of deaths from epidemics appears to be as follows : 
 
 Per cent, of Deaths from Epidemics 
 lo Total Deaths. 
 
 Gentry 10 
 
 Tradesmen 19 
 
 Artisans 18*7 
 
 Undescribed ; 22*7 
 
 Do not such proportions indicate the probable proportions of deaths 
 from cholera, as well as from future epidemics, the condition of the 
 several classes remaining the same? Certainly it does. It appears, 
 that in the district of St. Saviour's, the average age of death is the 
 lowest in any part of the metropolis. I must attribute it chiefly to the 
 open sewers and the general bad drainage of the place. In the neigh- 
 borhood of the Mint and Ewer street, the condition of the population 
 is certainly very bad. There not only the drainage, but the cleansing 
 and scavenging is very bad ; and nothing has been done to improve the 
 defective conditions of the houses. The circumstances are such as to 
 account for the mortality. 
 
 No. 9. 
 
 THOMAS TAYLOR, ESQ. 
 
 You are a medical gentleman residing in Bethnal Green? I anri, 
 Are you employed by the parish, or by the district, in any way? I 
 have one of the districts of the parish under my care. 
 What district is that? No. 2 district. 
 4 
 
54 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Can you at all give the geographical position of it? It is bounded 
 on the eastern side by the Cambridge road, upon the southern by Eli- 
 zabeth place, Collingwood street, Wellington street, North street, West 
 street, part of Tent street, up into Bethnal Green road, Hart's lane ; 
 and on the northern side of the road, about on a line with Hart's lane. 
 
 What is the population of the district ? I should suppdse it is about 
 seventeen thousand or eighteen thousand. 
 
 Of the poorest class? A great many of them are very poor. 
 
 How long have you been acquainted with that district? Since the 
 year 1834. 
 
 Then you were not acquainted with the district when the cholera 
 visited this country ? I was not. 
 
 Are you at all acquainted with the experience of the medical officer 
 who had the charge of the district at that time * I am afraid there is 
 not any one of the medical men who attended during the time of the 
 cholera who can be got at ; Mr. Luff died from his labors during the 
 cholera ; and of Mr. Bryden, I do not know what has become ; I do 
 not think he is to be found. 
 
 You cannot say what the districts were that were most severely visited 
 by that disorder? -It was at the time I was a medical pupil ; I visited, 
 for the sake of seeing the disease, some of the districts where the cho- 
 lera was prevalent, and I could point them out in the parish. 
 
 From the information you have obtained, you would be able, you 
 say, to point out the districts which were mostly severely visited ? 
 Some few of them. 
 
 Do you find that those districts are the districts which are now most 
 visited by fever ? I should say they were. lam not attending in 
 those districts in which I saw the cases of cholera; but I am enabled 
 to slate that fever is prevalent in Virginia row, where I saw several 
 cases of cholera. 
 
 What is the state of your district generally, as to cleansing, the sup- 
 ply of water, and also as to the stale of the houses themselves, in 
 respect of cleanliness? The cleansing is exceedingly deficient, caused 
 in the first instance by a great want of water. The whole estate pretty 
 nearly, till quite recently, was entirely without water. 
 
 What estate was that? I believe it belonged to St. Thomas's Hos- 
 pital. The property is in possession of Mr. Ridge, at present. An 
 Artesian well has recently been formed, and the want of water has 
 been relieved ; but, for a long period, they were without any water 
 whatever. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 55 
 
 Have any wafer companies their pipes laid down in the district'? 
 The water company's pipes were in the district; but, I believe, there 
 was some quarrel between the landlord and the company, and the 
 water company, I believe, refused to let them have water. 
 
 Do you mean by the landlord, St. Thomas's Hotel, or the lessee ? 
 The lessee, Mr. Ridge. In very many of the houses, in my district, 
 the water is not supplied to them. 
 
 How long is it since (his Artesian well has been sunk? I think it 
 has been got into operation within the last twelve months. 
 
 Can you state, with respect to sewerage, the state in which the dis- 
 trict is? Exceedingly deficient. Down the Bethnal Green road, which 
 is tolerably flat, on neither side is there any sewer that is three-quarters 
 of a mile in extent. 
 
 Is that in the Tower Hamlet division of sewers ? Yes. 
 
 Do you know whether any complaints have been made respecting 
 sewerage in that district? I formed one of a deputation to them upon 
 one occasion requesting that a sewer might be constructed. We were 
 informed that if part of the money was subscribed, they would then 
 make the sewer. The doctrine that was held out by Colonel Grant, 
 who was chairman at the time, was, that, the office of the Commission 
 was not for the purpose of making sewers, but keeping in repair those 
 that were already made. 
 
 How long ago is that? That is some four years ago. 
 
 And it still remains without a sewer ? It does. 
 
 Are you aware whether the neighborhood of that district is un- 
 healthy ? There are very many diseases occur there that, it appears to 
 me, would be remedied, provided that the places were well drained. 
 
 Can you positively say that more disease occurs in that portion of 
 Bethnal Green road, which is not sewered, than in that which is? 
 I am hardly able to make that statement, inasmuch as no part of my 
 district is well sewered. 
 
 Have you observed, in any portion that is better sewered than 
 another, less fever prevails? No doubt of it. 
 
 Can you state that positively ? I think I can very safely. 
 
 Can you name a particular street? I will take the Globe road; a 
 sewer was taken down there ten years since, and the health of that 
 district has materially improved since. 
 
 Does that sewer go into Whitechapel road? I think it does. 
 
 Do you attribute that improvement in health to the neighborhood 
 
56 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 being 1 less humid, or to the filth being carried off"? To the filth being 
 carried of from the surface. I should think the medical officer of the 
 Green street district, would be able to speak of facts connected with 
 disease and drainage. Green street has recently, within the last two 
 years, been drained by a sewer, and there, from the part being a dead 
 level, the parties suffered very severely from the want of drainage. 
 
 You state that an Artesian well has been sunk in a portion of your 
 district, are the houses supplied with pipes from that well ? Some of 
 them are, some are not. 
 
 Are you aware whether many are? I should suppose perhaps forty 
 houses may be supplied. 
 
 Are you aware at all whether any of the cesspools diminished in their 
 fluid height, in consequence of that Artesian well being sunk? I 
 should hardly suppose that to be the case ; for, in the construction of 
 an Artesian well, iron pipes are put down to prevent the surface drain- 
 age from entering the bore. f ^ 
 
 Has it drained any of the wells in the neighborhood ? I think not. 
 There are some gardens close upon the district, and no complaints of 
 the water having failed, in those wells, have been made. 
 Are cesspools very common in your district? Yes. 
 Where are they placed generally? Very frequently close to houses. 
 Are they ever under the houses? In some instances I could point 
 out, they are under the houses. 
 
 Do you know any instance where a bakehouse and cesspool are 
 both under the house ? I do not. 
 
 Do you think there is any material improvement in the district since 
 1834, which was the period when you took it under your own charge, 
 in the supply of water, cleansing, or sewerage? There have been 
 sewers constructed in some few parts, for instance, Globe road, which 
 I have mentioned, and a sewer was carried some time since clown Lis- 
 bon street ; and the surface of those streets is in a very much better 
 condition than it was before. 
 
 Generally speaking, private houses do not communicate with sewers, 
 do they ? They do not. I see an advertisement in the paper that the 
 Tower Hamlet's Commission are about to apply for increased powers. 
 I think it is quite right that increased powers should be extended to 
 them, for the purpose of carrying on the sewerage; but, I think, it 
 would be a duty, on the part of the public, to see that there was some 
 protection for them also ; that is to say, if parties in a district request that 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 57 
 
 a sewer might be made, a petition being- signed to that effect, the Com- 
 missioners of Sewers should be obliged to construct it. 
 
 If the Commissioners of Sewers are obliged to construct it, who 
 should pay for it ? The owners of the property, or long leaseholders, 
 who would derive benefit. Even in poor districts there is considerable 
 difficulty in managing it. It is utterly impossible that persons who are 
 earning from 10s. to 15s. a week, who perhaps form the great bulk of 
 the population in my district, could be tfalled upon to pay any part of 
 the sewers-rate. 
 
 Supposing the landlord paid it, would not it come upon them ulti- 
 mately in the shape of increased rent? I think the rents could hardly 
 be increased beyond what they are. 
 
 Would not the supply of water carried into the house be actual 
 economy of labor, and a saving even to the poorest weaver 1 No 
 question of it. 
 
 Supposing a constant supply of water could be carried into a house 
 for a penny a week, is there any poor weaver or laborer in Bethnal 
 Green, to whom it would not be a matter of economy ? it would be 
 a matter of economy ; but, under present circumstances, I do not think 
 carrying water to them would be of much use, inasmuch as they have 
 no means of getting rid of it. 
 
 Supposing it were practicable to carry away the refuse water again 
 by a house-drain at another penny a week, would not that be an 
 economy of labor, even to the poorest weaver ? There can be no 
 question about it. 
 
 The inhabitants of the poorest tenement must make use of a privy 
 or a cesspool ? Yes. 
 
 Supposing a water-closet apparatus, or soil-pan could be put down 
 at the rate of a penny a week, would not that be economy over the 
 existing charges ? I think so. 
 
 Supposing the front of the street could be swept or cleansed at a 
 penny a week, taking into account the expense of washing, would not 
 that be economy to the poorest weaver who works in Spitalfields? I 
 think there can be no doubt about it. 
 
 Suppose the sanitary improvement, in respect of those points, could 
 be carried out at 4d. a week, that is to say, the price of a pot of porter, 
 would that be too much even for the poorest to pay ; and to the poorest, 
 who must now pay in some shape, can it be other than an economy? 
 I think not. I think their increased health would give them greater 
 energy to attend to their work. 
 
58 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The poorest man there contributes to sick clubs or benefit societies, 
 probably ? Pretty generally, I should say. 
 
 Would not such a payment as 4d. a week for those improvements so 
 far reduce the chances of sickness, and extend the proportionate dura- 
 tion of life, that even as an insurance charge upon the family that 
 payment would be worth while? I think there can be no doubt 
 about it. 
 
 Do not a great number at present pay more than that amount in 
 the expenses of sickness? In the loss of wages, I think so, certainly ; 
 but the poor in the district are very badly off for medical attendance 
 generally. They are not in a condition to pay a medical man, and 
 there is considerable difficulty, which the poor complain of, in getting 
 orders for attendance officially. 
 
 Are there dispensaries in the district? There are. But the funds 
 that come into the hands of the Bethnal Green Dispensary do not 
 amount to more than <20 or ,30 per annum. The great saving 
 would be in their being in a condition to attend to their work continu- 
 ously. 
 
 It appears from a statement, that, of the deaths above twenty-one 
 in your district, as compared with the deaths in Greenwich or Camber- 
 well, a working man loses eleven years of his life. Do not you believe 
 that those several things would have a value upon the duration of life, 
 making it cheaper for him to pay for it? No question of it. 
 
 It appears that the average age of your population is twenty-two 
 years, whereas in Hackney it is thirty-one, and in Camberwell it is 
 thirty-one. The duration of life among the gentry is forty-six ; 
 tradesmen, twenty-four; artisans, eighteen. Do not you think the 
 surrounding sanitary influences have a great deal to do with those 
 various proportions? Yes, certainly. The condition in which the pool- 
 man is placed, from the want of every comfort of life about him, will 
 necessarily reduce the duration of his life. 
 
 Have you any gin-palaces in Bethnal Green? Several. 
 
 Have you any notion of the expenditure in Bethnal Green in gin? 
 No. 
 
 Can you infer it from the sizes and magnificence of palaces ? I 
 should think it is very considerable. 
 
 Supposing that expenditure upon gin-palaces were expended upon 
 their own houses, would not it lead to a very considerable improvement 
 in them, and increase of comfort as well as economy ? No doubt 
 about it. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 59 
 
 Can there be said to be an absolute want of power to pay for water, 
 while you have displayed before you in your streets such a power of 
 spending upon gin ? I am quite willing to admit the tendency to spend 
 money upon a luxury of that sort, as they consider it, when they 
 would not spend it upon water. 
 
 Supposing they had very good water constantly supplied to them, 
 would not that, to a certain extent, be an inducement to them to make 
 use of it ? Yes. 
 
 Do not you think the condition of the localities in which a great 
 many of the people in your district live, the uncleanliness of their 
 houses, and the impossibility of keeping them clean without any drain- 
 age, or paving, or water, has a considerable influence in driving them 
 to those gin-palaces? I think there cannot be a doubt of it. There 
 can be no question that they do go to public houses because they are 
 more comfortable there. I knew an instance of that some time ago. 
 A man and his wife had left their home to go to a public house, and 
 they stopped there till three or four o'clock in the morning ; they 
 quarrelled, and the man struck the woman. She lost a largish quantity 
 of blood, and the matter came under the notice of the police. They 
 had avowedly gone from their own wretched home to the public-house, 
 in consequence of its superior accommodation. 
 
 (The following paper was delivered in by the witness.) 
 
 " TABLES showing the NUMBER of PERSONS SLEEPING in one ROOM, its 
 dimensions, and the times when death would take place, provided 
 there were no ventilation ; those houses form courts and streets in a 
 nearly direct line from the Bethnal Green to the Whitechapel road, 
 a distance of half a mile. 
 
 " In calculating these tables, the following data have been used, 
 namely, that each respiration is 40 cublic inches (Menzies), the respi- 
 rations 20 per minute (Haller), and that the existence of 'OSths of 
 carbonic acid gas is destructive (Liebig). 
 
 " Parliament court consists of nine houses, each containing two 
 rooms, and a small washhouse (thirty square feel), and a yard, of about 
 the same size, less the space occupied by the privy; the pressure of the 
 water is so little that No. 9 is very badly supplied ; No. 8, somewhat 
 better, and the other houses tolerably well three times per week. 
 
60 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 No. of 
 persons. 
 
 Death 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 
 h. in. 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 31 37 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 7 1 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 15 49 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 31 37 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 
 7 8 
 
 10 6 
 
 9 7- 
 
 
 9 
 
 7 1 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 15 49 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 21 5 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 j 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 12 39 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 
 
 
 , 
 
 empty. 
 
 
 
 " A little court out of Parliament court contains four houses ; they 
 have one privy in common in the open court; having- no back pre- 
 mises, they obtain their water from a stand pipe three times a week. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 No. of 
 
 Death 
 
 
 ; 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length . 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 Persons. 
 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 1 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 31 8 
 
 
 
 2 
 3 
 
 (7 o 
 
 10 6 
 
 10 2J 
 
 2 
 2 
 
 31 8 
 31 8 
 
 x 
 
 
 4 
 
 I 
 
 
 I 
 
 4 
 
 15 24 
 
 
 " Jubilee place consists of eight houses, having no back premises ; 
 there are two privies in the open yard in front of the houses common 
 to them; there is but one stand-pipe, from which water is obtained 
 three times a-week. The houses Nos. 3 and 4 have a drain passing 
 under the floor ; they stink most abominably, and the paint (white 
 lead) is blacked by its conversion into sulphuret of lead. This court is 
 approached by a very narrow alley, and has no ventilation ; it is a 
 stagnant lake of air loaded with putridity. 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 No. of 
 Persons. 
 
 Death 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 1 
 
 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 27 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 56 42 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 18 54 
 
 
 
 4 
 5 
 
 
 -6 9 
 
 10 5 
 
 9 10< 
 
 
 3 
 9 
 
 18 54 
 6 18 
 
 
 t 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 8 6 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 27 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 7 6 
 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 
 
 61 
 
 " Little Collingwood street is divided into two portions, one contains 
 twenty houses, and the other twenty-two, a little smaller than the 
 former; four of the houses in the first division are wholly without 
 water, and their inhabitants have to beg it of their neighbors, who, in 
 supplying it, subject themselves to a penalty of, I believe, 5/. The first 
 ten houses are supplied by a stand pipe, each householder having a 
 key. This stand-pipe is the cause of much quarreling for turns, and 
 because it is frequently left running, and thereby annoys the person 
 who lives in the house next it, frequently floating the floor ; the other 
 houses all have the water laid on. 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 No. of 
 
 Persons. 
 
 Death 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 6 47 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 34 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 27 7 
 
 
 
 5 empty 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 . . 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 51 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 27 7 
 
 
 
 11 
 13 
 
 
 >7 9 
 
 9 11 
 
 9 5< 
 
 
 7 
 3 
 
 7 45 
 18 5 
 
 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 15 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 51 
 
 
 
 16 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 17 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 27 7 
 
 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 9 2 
 
 
 
 19 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 34 
 
 
 
 20 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 27 7 
 
 
 
 21 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 7 45 
 
 
 
 22 
 
 ^ 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 51 
 
 
62 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 "Second part of Little Collingwood street: 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 No. of Death 
 Persons, produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 Ft in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 
 1 empty 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 9 45 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 9 45 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 8 7 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 o 
 
 16 14 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 4 52 
 
 
 
 7 empty 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 . . 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 687 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 9 45 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 16 14 
 
 
 
 11 
 12 empty 
 
 
 6 7 
 
 9 7 
 
 9 5< 
 
 
 5 
 
 9 45 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 *6 
 
 8*' 7 
 
 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 9 45 
 
 
 
 15 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 9 45 
 
 
 
 16 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 6 5 
 
 
 
 17 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 6 58 
 
 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 12 11 
 
 
 
 19 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 6 58 
 
 
 
 20 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 6 58 
 
 
 
 21 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 5 25 
 
 
 
 22 
 
 
 
 
 
 i 
 
 6 
 
 8 7 
 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 " Foster street is a tolerably open street has a supply of water three 
 times a-week, and a yard at the back of each house containing a privy ; 
 the rooms up stairs are small, and, as will be seen in too many in- 
 stances, excessively packed ; it contains twenty-four houses. 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 No. of 
 
 Persons. 
 
 Death 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 52 13 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 26 7 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 5 48 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 3 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 17 4 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 52 13 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 5 13 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 17 '24 
 
 
 
 11 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 26 7 
 
 
 
 12 
 13 
 
 
 6 10 
 
 10 2 
 
 9 2< 
 
 4 
 5 
 
 13 3 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 17 24 
 
 
 
 15 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 3 
 
 
 
 16 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 26 7 
 
 
 
 17 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 26 7 
 
 
 
 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 
 19 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 
 20 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 17 24 
 
 
 
 21 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 3 
 
 
 
 22 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 13 3 
 
 
 
 23 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 26 7 
 
 
 
 24* 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 10 28 
 
 
 * This last house has an extra room in it. 
 
64 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 "Elizabeth place is a court containing fourteen houses, the en- 
 trance is from the Cambridge road, it is very narrow, and being an 
 out-of-the-way place, is a receptacle for dust and disgusting refuse ; the 
 houses are in a most wretched condition, as are most of its inhabitants, 
 morally as well as physically ; it is a harbor for the most degraded 
 class of street-walkers. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 No. of 
 
 Death 
 
 i 
 
 
 No. 
 
 Height. 
 
 Length. 
 
 Breadth. 
 
 Persons. 
 
 produced in. 
 
 
 
 
 ^Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 Ft. in. 
 
 
 h. m. 
 
 
 
 1 empty 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 . . 
 
 
 
 2 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 , . 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 15 14 
 
 
 
 4 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 6 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 7 
 8 
 
 
 >7 1 
 
 10 7 9 11^ 
 
 
 5 
 3 
 
 12**11 
 20 19 
 
 
 
 9 " 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 t 
 
 m 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 12 11 
 
 
 
 11 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 30 28 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 12 11 
 
 
 
 13 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 6 46 
 
 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 3 28 
 
 
 " In these tables no deduction has been made for the space occupied 
 by furniture or the bodies of the inmates, which would tell very much 
 in such cases as 6 Little Collingwood street, 8 Foster street, and 13 
 Elizabeth place; how the parties are to lie without being super-im- 
 posed is to me a perfect puzzle, but to contemplate fever invading is 
 most horrible." 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 65 
 
 No. 10. 
 ;&.:! JOHN WRIGHT, ESQ., M.D. 
 
 What is your public position? -4 attend as general medical attend- 
 ant to the poor of the united parishes of St. Margaret and St. John, 
 Westminster. I have practiced as a general practitioner in the neigh- 
 borhood. 
 
 Were you connected with the parish at the time of the cholera? 
 My partner was, and I was actively engaged with him in attendance 
 on the cholera patients. 
 
 Was the visitation of the cholera severe at that time ? Comparatively 
 to the rest of the metropolis, it was severe. 
 
 What were the descriptions of places which the cholera attacked? 
 The low, ill-drained, ill-cleansed, and ill-ventilated places ; the low 
 courts and alleys in which a large proportion of the population live. 
 
 You have read Mr. Wilson's account of the condition of a portion of 
 the parish ; do you agree as to its general correctness? Yes, I do. 
 
 When fever is prevalent in your neighborhood, these are the places 
 where you find it? Yes, in the courts and alleys, the low neighbor- 
 hoods; fever has of late been very severe there. I have given in the 
 following aQcount to our Board : 
 
 " From the 29th September, 1846, to the 30th September, 1847, the 
 number of out-door cases attended by order of the parochial authorities 
 amount to no less than 2,460, having steadily increased during the last 
 three years from the previous annual average of one thousand to the 
 present number ; the increase of the past year over the preceding one is 
 above eight hundred, which I apprehend is principally to be attributed 
 to the destitution resulting from the high price of provisions during the 
 winter, and the prevalence of fever, in the first place apparently caused 
 by the influx of destitute Irish ; the number of cases of fever during 
 that period have been upwards of 650." 
 
 Are not the crowding of the Irish into such places, and their filthy 
 habits quite sufficient of themselves to produce fever, whatever were 
 their previous condition ? Yes, I am quite satisfied that it is so from 
 my personal observation of them, they have no notion of ventilation; 
 
66 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 they have no care for personal cleanliness ; they never think of water; 
 they never care what they lie down upon ; they huddle together and 
 -are utterly careless. 
 
 But what is the condition of the regular English or other popula- 
 tion ? Still very bad ; the lower parts of Westminster were formerly 
 badly crowded, but they have been undoubtedly still more densely 
 crowded, the low lodging-houses especially, by people driven in from 
 St. Giles's, and the other neighborhoods pulled down to make clear- 
 ances for the improvements. 
 
 It is of course in these neighborhoods you will expect cholera? Yes, 
 or any other epidemic. Within the last four months I have had nearly 
 two hundred cases of measles, and now scarlet fever is prevalent. 
 Whenever there is an epidemic we have it on a large scale. 
 
 From the Registrar-General's return it appeared that in the year 
 1839, the proportions per cent., of deaths in your parishes was of 
 professional persons seventeen per cent., tradesmen twenty-five per 
 cent., and artisans twenty-five percent.; that the deaths of infants 
 under ten years was of the gentry twenty-seven per cent., tradesmen 
 fifty-five per cent., artisans fifty-six per cent.: in fact that more than 
 one half of all born are swept away before the tenth year, and the 
 average age of the whole is twenty-five years, or ten years less than a 
 less unhealthy suburban district; the years of life being thus distri- 
 buted to professional persons, forty-two; to the tradesmen, twenty ; 
 and to the artisan twenty-one; that is to say, man, woman, and child 
 of the class. Do these proportions to your mind correspond with the 
 relative sanitary conditions of the chief classes of the population? 
 Yes ; and the loss of life amongst the artisan class would be greater if 
 they were not more out a-field, and shorter residents than the trades- 
 men, who are almost always at home, and more exposed to these in- 
 fluences. 
 
 Regarding the state of the atmosphere in the neighborhood of the 
 seat of the deliberations of the Legislature, you would probably ap- 
 prove as wise the proposed arrangement for drawing the air for the 
 ventilation of both Houses from a superior position ? Yes ; I should 
 think it well to get the air from a purer atmosphere. 
 
 Do you regard cholera as an epidemic, attacking the same classes, 
 and influenced by similar circumstances as ordinary epidemic disease? 
 I do. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 67 
 
 In your experience did it not attack the same subjects as typhus, and 
 prove most severe and mortal at the same ages and in similar constitu- 
 tions ? That, is my decided opinion. I was so much struck with this 
 similarity, on a careful examination of one hundred cases of true Asi- 
 atic cholera, that I drew out a table with a view to illustrate the fact, 
 which I published at the time. 
 
 What was the result of your observation as to the beneficial result of 
 the cholera hospital ? We had a very efficient staff; that is, very effi- 
 cient comparatively ; we had the means of giving much greater atten- 
 tion to the cases than the poor could have received at their own houses ; 
 and I certainly think some degree of benefit was experienced by this 
 alteration. I should, however, deprecate the removal of a person in 
 cholera in the stage of collapse ; and, indeed, unless in cases of ex- 
 treme destitution, I think they would have a better chance of recover- 
 ing if treated at their own houses. 
 
 Do you think instances of the abandonment of cholera patients by 
 friends and neighbors was a common occurrence? It was very com- 
 mon for friends and neighbors to desert the sick ; they were afraid to 
 go into the sick room, and this fear, and the consequent neglect of the 
 sick by neighbors, and even occasionally by relatives, is no uncommon 
 occurrence, even in fever, especially among the Irish. 
 
 Did the poor willingly avail themselves of the benefit of the cholera 
 hospital in your district? 
 
 They did not ; they said they were going there to be slaughtered. 
 
 If they were to see systematic and efficient means adopted for im- 
 proving the cleanliness of the localities and houses, do you think they 
 would place more confidence in such measures as means of prevention, 
 and would more willingly co-operate in securing their success? I do. 
 I believe the poor inhabitants in general would do any thing in their 
 power in carrying out such means of prevention. 
 
 Is not your poor-house kept free of typhus cases, except imported 
 ones? Yes; such cases as we have are generally cases brought in. 
 
 Have you not schools and well-regulated places which are kept free 
 from typhus within the parish ? Yes, there are such places, of which 
 I never hear of any cases of typhus. 
 
 May we not from such examples infer the practicability of keeping 
 the dwellings of the laboring classes within your parish free in propor- 
 tion to the application of similar means ? Yes, I have no doubt of it. 
 
68 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 No. 11. 
 
 TABLE L CHOLERA CASES IN LONDON AND VICINITY, REPORTED IN 1832. 
 
 PLACES. 
 
 POPULATION. 
 
 CASES. 
 
 DEATHS. 
 
 DISCOVERIES. 
 
 Not included in Metro- Metropolitan Registration Districts. * i 
 iuor, n; t,.;f D s.r* 
 
 
 62018 
 29741 
 28231 
 47634 
 
 58209 
 38505 
 52907 
 19795 
 24553 62009 
 17661 
 
 3480 7326 
 27334 
 37316 
 32371 , 
 
 20902 
 14540 > 
 87856 
 55798 
 No return. 
 46642 
 122206 
 44526 
 103548 
 4846) 
 16849V 25066 
 
 337O 
 12875 
 68564 
 13705 , 
 
 77796 C 91501 
 
 15695 1 
 40282 
 9741 [ 78826 
 9544 
 3564 
 2052) 
 5203V 9937 
 2682 ^ 
 
 124585 
 3453, 
 
 '^52848 
 30733 -^ 
 
 93 
 
 94 
 56 
 5 
 5 
 
 186, 
 
 24 ( 
 
 18 ( 
 85 - 
 
 179] 
 
 21: 
 
 85, 
 
 1 
 
 , 
 
 188 ~ 
 5 
 
 158 
 108 
 
 28J 
 
 28; 
 
 30 
 26} 
 
 275, 
 
 196^ 
 
 42H 
 
 304 
 516 
 217 
 143 
 125 
 224 
 628 
 
 165 
 
 60 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 565 
 614 
 
 258 
 516 
 476 
 186 
 
 > 
 
 " 208 
 
 21 
 
 107 
 
 > 
 
 s 487 
 
 84 
 
 545 
 
 > 
 
 ' 
 
 170 
 210 
 
 107 
 65 
 74 
 123 
 
 280 
 55) 
 54 V 149 
 
 40 S 
 
 II 8 
 46 
 39 
 82, 
 
 29^ 
 337 
 359 
 
 118 
 224 
 
 200 
 111 
 
 ioi v 107 
 
 6) 
 19 
 57 
 35, 
 
 831 
 
 62 1 225 
 
 55 
 2|J 
 
 18V 37 
 
 325 
 
 100, 
 
 263^ 
 
 134 
 
 306 
 110 
 78 
 51 
 101 
 348 
 38) 
 40V 94 
 
 119 
 21 
 104, 
 
 56$ 
 228 
 255 
 
 140 
 292 
 276 
 75 
 8) 
 78V 101 
 15 j 
 2 
 50 
 50, 
 
 1304 C 1354 
 1061 
 
 96 )> 262 
 53 j 
 4J 
 20) 
 12 V 47 
 15 5 
 
 220 
 
 175, 
 oo / 
 t/y r 4 n 
 
 20 ( 452 
 158 ^ 
 
 
 
 
 George St Hanover square 
 
 George St in the. East 
 
 Giles - St 
 
 f Deptford 
 
 
 r Woolwich 
 
 
 Hackney. ... J g toke tfewington 
 
 
 
 * Chelsea and Brompton. . . 
 
 Kensington . 2 Kensington 
 
 
 
 
 
 Luke St Middlesex 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 f Stratford 
 
 Rotherhithe 
 
 
 
 Sth*..j*- George the Martyr. 
 
 
 
 
 Stepney Ratclifle 
 
 Shadwell . 
 
 
 St Mary-le-Strand 
 
 Strand St Paul, Coven t Garden. 
 
 i Rolls Liberty 
 
 
 Westminster} St. Margaret & St. John V 
 
 ( Botolph without Aldgate. 
 S Sftitalfields . . . 
 
 Whitechapel ^ T 1 ower and Liberty .... 
 
 
 Total Metropolitan Districts. . . . 
 C Bartholomew, St., the Great... 
 
 1451138 
 
 2923 
 
 2085 
 4994 
 2172 
 
 Not known. 
 
 5540, 
 ?|^V 26188 
 6879^ 
 
 9, 
 27< 
 15 ( 
 25 ' 
 
 10182 
 
 9 
 
 70 
 21 
 6 
 270 
 141 
 245 
 
 4885 
 
 6 
 
 80 
 18 
 2 
 139 
 
 68 
 81 
 
 14J 
 
 5297 
 
 3 
 40 
 3 
 4, 
 131 
 73 
 164 
 3, 
 
 J5 30 
 
 11 ^ 
 
 
 
 
 Hospital, Grenville street V 
 
 * H tt sea 
 
 3 Wandsworth C /-,| ham 
 
 and < p n f nev 
 
 ' Clat)ham ( iv? / ' ' 'V 
 
 Total Metropolis and Vicinity. . . 
 
 1489500 
 
 11020 
 
 5275 
 
 5745 
 
 NOTE The parishes and places from which returns of Cholera were obtained, have been arranged into the Registration Districts 
 adopted by the Registrar-General, in order to facilitate comparisons with Fever casei, as shown by Table III. The places last mimed 
 above are excluded from the calculations, as not forming part of the Metropolitan Districts, or being otherwise defective in the returns. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 69 
 
 TABLE IT. 
 
 DEATHS FROM TYPHUS IN LONDON IN EACH WEEK, AND THE AVERAGE 
 FOR EACH QUARTER OF THE YEARS 1845, 1846, AND PART OF 1847. 
 
 Weeks 
 ending 
 Saturday. 
 
 Deaths from Typhus. 
 
 Weeks 
 ending 
 Saturday. 
 
 Deaths from Typhus. 
 
 1845 
 
 1846 
 
 1847* 
 
 1845 
 
 1846 
 
 1847* 
 
 1st week 
 
 39] 
 
 
 41] 
 
 
 49] 
 
 
 28thweek 
 
 18] 
 
 
 28] 
 
 
 52] 
 
 
 2d " 
 
 27 
 
 
 37 
 
 
 39 
 
 
 29th " 
 
 18 
 
 
 29 
 
 
 64 
 
 
 3d " 
 
 33 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 40 
 
 
 30th " 
 
 29 
 
 
 36 
 
 
 57 
 
 
 4th " 
 
 23 
 
 
 35 
 
 
 28 
 
 
 31st " 
 
 17 
 
 
 
 25 
 
 
 54 
 
 
 5th " 
 
 32 
 
 
 28 
 
 
 32 
 
 
 32d " 
 
 18 
 
 
 23 
 
 
 55 
 
 
 6th 
 
 7th " 
 
 24 
 25 
 
 28 
 
 37 
 24 
 
 ,32 
 
 28 
 26 
 
 >34 
 
 33d " 
 34th " 
 
 19 
 22 
 
 -21 
 
 37 
 26 
 
 ,31 
 
 70 
 62 
 
 .66 
 
 8th 
 
 30 
 
 
 22 
 
 
 32 
 
 
 35th " 
 
 22 
 
 37 
 
 
 74 
 
 
 9th t 
 
 18 
 
 
 27 
 
 
 41 
 
 
 36th " 
 
 17 
 
 26 
 
 
 77 
 
 
 10th " 
 
 35 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 28 
 
 
 37th " 
 
 23 
 
 40 
 
 
 81 
 
 
 llth " 
 
 21 
 
 
 29 
 
 
 32 
 
 
 38th " 
 
 29 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 111 
 
 
 12th 
 
 24 
 
 
 26 
 
 
 33 
 
 
 39th " 
 
 27 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 77 
 
 
 13th 
 
 31 
 
 
 36 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 40th " 
 
 23 < 
 
 
 38 * 
 
 
 79' 
 
 
 14th " 19^ 
 
 
 28 
 
 
 18' 
 
 
 41st " 
 
 19 
 
 
 41 
 
 
 79 
 
 
 15th " 26 
 
 
 33 
 
 
 43 
 
 
 42d " 
 
 22 
 
 
 45 
 
 
 93 
 
 r\r\ 
 
 16th 23 
 
 
 36 
 
 
 29 
 
 
 43d " 
 
 33 
 
 
 61 
 
 
 78f U 
 
 17th " 
 
 23 
 
 
 23 
 
 
 41 
 
 
 44th " 
 
 28 
 
 
 55 
 
 
 73 
 
 18th " 
 
 26 
 
 
 23 
 
 
 40 
 
 
 45th " 
 
 31 
 
 47 
 
 
 80 J 
 
 19th " 
 
 22 
 
 
 15 
 
 
 34 
 
 
 46th u 
 
 31 i>27i 48j>48 
 
 
 20th " 
 
 20 
 
 ,24 
 
 25 
 
 -28 
 
 52 
 
 .44 
 
 47th u 
 
 29 
 
 58 
 
 
 
 21st " 
 
 27 
 
 
 20 
 
 
 54 
 
 
 48th " 
 
 32 
 
 42 
 
 
 
 22d " 17 
 
 
 28 
 
 
 52 
 
 
 49th " 
 
 20 
 
 48 
 
 
 * 
 
 23d " 28 
 
 
 32 
 
 
 51 
 
 
 50th " 
 
 28 
 
 59 
 
 
 
 24th 29 
 
 
 38 
 
 
 44 
 
 
 51st u 
 
 34 
 
 34 
 
 
 
 25th " 19 
 
 
 33 
 
 
 52 
 
 
 52d " 
 
 28 
 
 43. 
 
 
 
 O* f li i OQ 
 
 
 orj 
 
 
 P o 
 
 
 
 i 
 
 
 27th " 
 
 toil 
 
 14 
 
 
 Ov 
 
 28 ' 
 
 
 61 
 
 
 Total.. 
 
 1301 J1796 
 
 
 Weekly average derived from deaths of 1842-3-4-5 and 6, 
 and corrected for increase of Population to middle of 1846. 
 
 32 
 
 * The deaths in the district of Lewisham and sub-district of Hainpstead added to metropolis for 
 the first time in 1847. 
 
70 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 TABLE III. CHOLERA. 
 
 n!5 Districts in which Deaths from Fever in 1838 were 
 Lowest. Highest. 
 
 
 
 Districts. 
 
 *Deaths 
 from 
 Fever 
 in 1838 
 to Popu- 
 lation. 
 
 fCasea of 
 Attack 
 of 
 Cholera 
 in 183-2, 
 to Popu- 
 
 fDeaths 
 from 
 Cholera 
 in 1832, 
 to Popu 
 
 Propor- 
 tion of 
 I'eatha 
 to Case* 
 of attack 
 of 
 Cholera. 
 
 Average of each Group. 
 
 Deaths 
 
 Fever 
 in 1838. 
 
 Attacks 
 
 Cholera 
 in 183-2. 
 
 Deaths 
 from 
 Cholera 
 in 1832 
 
 Death s to 
 Attacks 
 of 
 Cholera. 
 
 St. Savior and St. Olave 
 
 lin 
 
 160 
 165 
 206 
 206 
 208 
 227 
 2^9 
 256 
 260 
 261 
 269 
 288 
 302 
 304 
 321 
 352 
 396 
 412 
 424 
 458 
 463 
 478 
 479 
 507 
 518 
 522 
 638 
 688 
 781 
 999 
 
 lin 
 
 45 
 57 
 
 58 
 172 
 166 
 204 
 641 
 229 
 84 
 557 
 162 
 613 
 255 
 36 
 228 
 155 
 120 
 466 
 181 
 118 
 333 
 237 
 91 
 622 
 240 
 130 
 94 
 229 
 733 
 
 lin 
 
 114 
 113 
 
 i42 
 313 
 594 
 365 
 1203 
 384 
 189 
 933 
 171 
 678 
 417 
 91 
 385 
 261 
 234 
 786 
 395 
 270 
 733 
 546 
 155 
 957 
 561 
 264 
 223 
 385 
 916 
 
 1 in 
 
 2-5 
 1-9 
 
 2 : 5 
 1-8 
 3-6 
 1-8 
 1-9 
 1-7 
 2-2 
 1-7 
 2-2 
 1-1 
 1-6 
 2-5 
 1-7 
 1-7 
 2-0 
 1-7 
 2-2 
 2-3 
 2-2 
 2-3 
 1-7 
 1-5 
 2-3 
 2-0 
 2-4 
 1-7 
 1-3 
 
 
 lin 
 237 
 
 lin 
 ^494 
 
 1 in 
 116 
 
 1 in 
 183 
 
 1 in 
 253 
 
 1 in 
 
 358 
 
 1 in 
 2-1 
 
 lin 
 1-9 
 
 Whitechapel 
 
 
 
 
 Holborn ... 
 
 Bethnal Green . 
 
 Shoreditch . . . 
 
 \Vestrninster . . . 
 
 St Giles 
 
 St. Pancras 
 
 Stepney ... 
 
 Rotherhithe ... 
 
 Greenwich 
 
 
 St . Martin 
 
 
 Poplar 
 
 
 St. Luke 
 
 Strand 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hackney .... 
 
 Average of Totals 
 
 319 
 
 142 
 
 296 2-0 
 
 * Taken from the Second Annual Report of the Registrar-General, p. 201. 
 t From Returns of Cholera Cases made to the Privy Council Office. 
 ** No Returns of Cholera Cases appear to have been made to the Council Offic 
 lions of other districts, comprising altogether a population of about 160,000. 
 
 from the East and West London Districts, and por- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 71 
 
 TABLE IV CHOLERA. 
 
 PROPORTION OF ATTACKS AND DEATHS, OF FEVER AND CHOLERA, IN 20 METROPOLITAN DISTRICTS.* 
 
 
 
 
 
 |3 
 
 11 
 
 Proportion of 
 
 Average of each Group. 
 
 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 35 '"' 
 
 Deaths 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 c 
 
 s? 
 
 ??1 
 
 sj 
 
 to Population 
 
 Attacks of Deaths from 
 
 
 Metropolitan Districts 
 from which 
 
 
 P 1 
 
 
 1.3 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Returns of Fever were 
 made in 1838. 
 
 Si 
 
 o* 
 
 "S a'o 
 
 " 8 
 
 g- 
 
 | 
 
 !* 
 
 
 
 
 f 
 
 Nnmber 
 attacked 
 
 |^| 
 g^l 
 
 sjt- 
 S0.2 
 "s 
 
 |1 
 
 l| 
 
 i ( f j 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 3 j 
 
 
 I 
 
 ' 
 
 
 
 
 i f 
 
 2fl- 
 
 
 3 
 
 fiSt. George Southwark . . 
 
 jWhitechapel 
 
 ;Bethnal Green , 
 
 ! Holborn 
 
 iLamboth 
 
 ' Gamberwell 
 
 Rotherhithe 
 
 iBermondsey 
 
 ;Hackney 
 
 I St . Savior's 
 
 ;Stepney 
 
 Strand 
 
 ;St. Olave's 
 
 i West Ham 
 
 ^Kensington 
 
 ! St. George in-the-East. . 
 j Wandsworth and Clap- ) 
 
 ! ham 5 
 
 j Poplar 
 
 Greenwich. 
 
 jSt. Martin's 
 
 1467 
 5856 
 
 7911 
 1158 
 1745 
 
 3000 
 2620 
 1856 
 8596 
 1692 
 1949 
 3041 
 6114 
 6869 
 
 2551 
 
 60'39 
 6607 
 2142 
 
 1276 
 
 2405 
 
 1209 
 
 705 
 
 1658 
 
 238 
 
 1 in 
 
 1-15 
 2-4 
 
 3-0 
 3-3 
 4-8 
 4-9 
 4-9 
 5-0 
 6-1 
 
 [ inil in 
 36 ' 321 
 
 6-4 
 7-3 
 7-4 
 
 593 
 428 
 294 
 1348 
 231 
 
 264. . - 
 326| 9-3 
 573,10-7 
 62710-9 
 
 234' 10 -9 
 
 52o|ll-6 
 52212-7 
 165113-0 
 
 1 inj 
 911 
 
 57! 165ill3 I 
 204 239' 365 | 
 166 2271594 
 155 396261 I 
 130! 638 264 ' 
 613 ! 302678 
 
 58 j 206 142 
 7S3| 999916 
 
 54! 160 136 
 162! 288 171 
 118! 463270 
 
 36 ! 160 
 
 91 
 
 1 in 11 in 
 
 3-4J 85 
 
 i 
 
 1 in 
 263| 185 
 
 .. 1 626 
 210 522561 
 172 
 
 345 
 
 120! 412^34 I 
 255! 304417 | 
 228 352385J 
 
 208 313 f- 
 573^69 I 
 
 Total 77186|l3972| 5-5 [ 110 291|234 
 
 1 in 1 in 
 9.5; 157 
 
 1 in 1 in 
 324! 326 
 
 * Taken from the Fifth Annual Report of the Poor Law Commissioners, 8ro. p. 162, 
 
 J From Returns of Cholera Cases made to the Privy Council Office. 
 
 J From the Second Annual neport. of the Registrar-General, 8vo.. p. 201. 
 
 No. 12. 
 
 LEWIS COOKE HERTSLET, ESQ., Chief Clerk to the Court of Sewers for 
 Westminster and part of Middlesex. 
 
 The Commissioners are desirous of ascertaining the extent of work 
 for house and street, and main drainage which remains unaccomplished 
 in your district. Have you any plans in the office on which you can 
 rely for making an accurate return of the number of streets within the 
 district which have sewers in them 1 We have such plans ; but our 
 new surveyor informs me constantly of inaccuracies in them. Within 
 the last few days he has told me of two courts where there are sewers, 
 but which sewers are not laid down on the plan. 
 
72 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Have. you sections of all the lines of sewers ? We have not a com- 
 plete section of more than one or two of our main lines. 
 
 How many main lines have you ? About twenty, that, is to say, in 
 our active jurisdiction ; hut of the jurisdiction between Hampton and 
 Fulham, we have neither plan nor section excepting of the shore line 
 made many years ago. 
 
 Taking the shore line, what proportion does your active jurisdiction 
 bear to your inactive jurisdiction ? The active jurisdiction is less than 
 one-fourth ; about seventy years ago, the Commissioners commenced 
 proceedings beyond the Counters Creek Sewer, but a lawsuit stopped 
 them. 
 
 What sections have you of the collateral lines of sewers 1 We have 
 sections only of some of the streets in which sewers have been rebuilt, 
 and of some new sewers. 
 
 What proportion do the streets, courts, and alleys in your district, in 
 which the sewers have been rebuilt, bear to the whole number of streets, 
 &c 1 I do not know exactly the number of streets in our active juris- 
 diction, which contains about twenty parishes, but the proportion of re- 
 built sewers must be very small ; we have, however, done much lately 
 and have heavy works in hand. 
 
 Are your plans of the sewers in courts, alleys, and mews less in pro- 
 portion to the number of courts, alleys, and mews than the proportion 
 of plans to streets 1 Very much less ; there must be hundreds of courts 
 and mews of which we have no plans and sections. 
 
 Have you a set of levels from any fixed datum line? No, we have 
 not ; our surveyor is trying to remedy the evil, so far as he can do so 
 by taking plans of fractional portions of the district. 
 
 Of what proportion have you completed such plan? Not one twen- 
 tieth part of the district is complete, even of the active jurisdiction. 
 Until lately I had heard and believed what has been so generally stated, 
 that our plans were tolerably complete ; but since I have been admit- 
 ted to a more intimate acquaintance with the surveyor's department, I 
 find that the case is as I have now stated it ; there is a vast collection 
 of books containing plans with very little practical information in 
 them. 
 
 Of what description are these plans? They are plans of all scales, 
 sorts, and sizes. Very few of them bear any signature whatever, and 
 have been made generally without reference to any fixed datum line. 
 In most cases what is shown upon them is the old and not the present 
 state of the sewerage. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 73 
 
 How, in the absence of a proper general plan, and sections to a 
 fixed datum line, can you proceed with any certainty that works laid 
 down in separate places will fall in with a general system? We can- 
 not proceed with any certainty at all. The surveyor is daily deploring 
 to me the want of such a plan ; and, with a list of about seventy mat- 
 ters already referred to him for reports, and accumulating each court 
 day, it is no wonder he should do so. We have urgently pressed upon 
 the Commissioners, at various times, in and out of court, the absolute 
 necessity of such a plan ; and the surveyor is at present engaged in ob- 
 taining information as to the cost of one, and other particulars. 
 
 What are these reports upon? Principally upon complaints of in- 
 efficient drainage. 
 
 O 
 
 Do these complaints come from the poorer districts ? The greater 
 part of them do not. The poor, being used to the want of drainage, 
 and never having heard of the value of it till very recently, bear their 
 lot most patiently, and seldom make any serious complaint, except 
 perhaps to the collectors of the rates. The complainants are, for the 
 most part, of another class ; such as from Bryanstone square, Mon- 
 tague square, Norfolk street, Park lane, Upper Brook street, and also 
 with reference to some of the principal main lines being uncovered. 
 
 Are you aware that it has been stated that there have been typhus 
 fever cases in Bryanstone square? No ; but I have heard of fever in 
 Montague square. In Bryanstone square, there is a sewer on each 
 side, but not sufficiently deep to drain the houses. Complaints have 
 recently been made that the water does not freely flow from the drains, 
 and that the gullies' gratings are excessively noxious. The' sewers in 
 Montague square do not extend much above half the length of the 
 square, and run northward. These were evidently sewers built with- 
 out regard to any fixed datum line, and had reference only to what 
 was believed to be the nearest and most ready outfall. 
 
 If you amend that drainage now, can you be sure that you will not 
 have to undo it again before long? Every care would be taken by our 
 present surveyor, no doubt ; but we can never act with confidence until 
 a general survey is made. 
 
 Would it not be expedient for the public good to suspend all your 
 important works for a year, or some such period, to have the security 
 of a general plan and sections ? I think the most urgent works only 
 should be allowed to proceed in any district, till a general plan of 
 that district, at least, shall have been completed . I believe no means 
 
74 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 could be adopted more necessary or advantageous for the public service 
 than to suspend all works of magnitude till the survey shall have been 
 made. During- the progress of the survey, in order to keep the work- 
 men in employ, the house-drainage, (of which at present, we know 
 nothing, but which by the recent local Act is placed under the control 
 and supervision of the Court,) might be examined, and brought into 
 some state of preparation for the improved sewerage. The saving 
 which would be effected by the survey would be immense. The ex- 
 isting volumes and rolls of plans, with the books and registers of depths, 
 the lists of sewers, &c., &c., might all be thrown aside, and the fa- 
 cility of reference to an engraved plan and sections, corrected regularly, 
 would be so great that the staff of officers required to refer to the pre- 
 sent books and plans, to take disconnected levels, to prepare detached 
 portions of plans from time to time, as is now done, and to make out 
 fresh lists and registers of such detached portions, would be no longer 
 needed. It must, however, be borne in mind, that the additional 
 charge of the internal drains of sixty thousand tenements, and the con- 
 trol and superintendence of all new drains, which the new Act has 
 thrown upon us, will necessitate a very large increase in the staff of 
 inspectors, if it is to be efficiently carried into effect for the public 
 service. 
 
 Would not the dangers, and the expense of these doings and undo- 
 ings of works, and the loss of health and comfort, as well as of money, 
 from bad works, be also saved ? They would. 
 
 Might not a very close approach be made to the cost of a complete 
 system of sewerage and drainage, and street cleansing, on such a plan 
 being completed? A very close approximation might be attained to, 
 and I should think it might be done as each level is completed. 
 
 Until such a survey be made, can any good estimates be reasonably 
 expected? It would be out of the question. If made they would 
 totally mislead. 
 
 Would it not be desirable that such a survey should be superintended 
 by officers of the highest practice, qualifications, and standing 1 There 
 can be no doubt of it. The work would be done once for all, and it 
 should be done in the best possible manner. That would be the truest 
 economy. I believe also, that the cost- of such survey on a scale of 
 sixty inches to the mile is very much over-estimated, and in this I speak 
 both from observation and experience. 
 
 Have you seen any of the large maps made under the superintend- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 75 
 
 ence of the Board of Ordinance 7 Yes, and I have greatly admired 
 them. 
 
 Should not the same system prevail throughout the metropolis? 
 Yes; I am decidedly of that opinion. 
 
 Will you furnish us with instances of the inconveniencies arising 
 from the division of districts ? They are numerous. 1st. There is 
 the endangering of the rates, by their being laid open to legal objec- 
 tions. To take an instance close to the Sewers' Office : Tottenham 
 Court road is drained by one sewer, and yet one side is rated to the 
 Westminster Commission and the opposite side to the Holborn Com- 
 mission ; consequently, an objection may be taken that the rates are 
 unequal, inasmuch as all the property drained is not included in them. 
 2ndly. One side is rated at sixpence every two or three years, while 
 the other side generally pays rates at threepence twice in that period. 
 Again, the want of uniformity in practice, both as to the form of sew- 
 ers and as to the mode of charging frontage. To take the same in- 
 stance ; In Tottenham Court road, the sewer has been entirely rebuilt 
 within a few years, and yet one-half has upright sides, and nearly flat 
 bottom, whilst the upper half is of the oval form. Moreover, in the 
 same street or road, great dissatisfaction and confusion is caused by 
 four different modes of charging frontage. On the Holborn side, a 
 house, having an original drain is charged <2 for connecting with the 
 sewer, and a house having no original drain is made to pay 4. On 
 the Westminster side, a house which had no old sewer in front is ex- 
 pected to pay ten shillings per foot, according to frontage, for going 
 into the new sewer ; while a house which had a sewer, however small 
 in front, has nothing to pay, even though it had no drain into the old 
 sewer. Museum street, Bow street line at Bloornsbury street, Regent 
 street, &c., are similarly situated in many respects. Much confusion 
 is caused by Regent street being abstracted by a special Act from the 
 Westminster Commission. Indeed, till it is restored, the most obvious 
 improvement of the drainage of that part of the town cannot be ef- 
 fected. The new Bow street line of sewer from the Strand to New 
 Oxford street is so placed as to be quite useless as a main line to the 
 Westminster Commission, and ,yet the cost of this sewer was wholly 
 borne by the eastern division of the Westminster sewers, while the 
 Holborn Commission, for whose benefit it really turns out to have been 
 built, paid no portion of the expense. 
 Do you know what is the state of the paving of Tottenham Court 
 
76 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 road 1 It is execrable. The southern end has, within the last few 
 years, been improved, but if the whole street were to be repaved at 
 once in the improved manner, the small district which would have to 
 bear the burden would be most severely taxed. The Hampstead and 
 Highgate omnibus and coach proprietors have told me that they have 
 more damage done to their springs, &c., in Tottenham Court road than 
 in the whole of their journey. 
 
 It appears that in your's (the Westminster division of the drainage 
 area of the metropolis) there are twenty-five separate Boards having 
 charge of the paving of the streets'? Yes, about twenty-five; there 
 are also the Regent street Commission and the metropolitan roads. 
 
 What practical inconveniences do you find arise from the separation 
 of the paving and cleansing of the streets from the works of the sew- 
 ers, gully-shoots, and other means of surface draining? Scarcely a 
 day arrives without notices from some of the Paving Boards of sewers 
 or gullies requiring alteration. The most frequent, though not the 
 most important difficulty arises from the petty jealousies of the officers 
 acting under the different authorities, and sometimes even the disagree- 
 ments between the Boards themselves. In the next place the charges, 
 which we have been long obliged to submit to, of 3s. per yard for the 
 relaying of foot-way pavement, and Is. 9d. for the carriage-ways, 
 throughout the districts. 
 
 Are the regulations of these very numerous Boards such as to facili- 
 tate business ? I cannot say that they are so generally. In a recent 
 instance a sewer contractor was called upon to deposit about <300, 
 before he broke ground. 
 
 What was the reason for this?- -I heard no other than that it was the 
 rule of the Paving Board. 
 
 Was tbis complied with ? Certainly not. We refused to comply, 
 and gave directions to the contractor to proceed. He appeared alarmed, 
 as the surveyor of pavements had threatened to fill in the trench as 
 fast as it was opened, and to take the plant to the green-yard. 
 
 What was done upon this? The contracter received written instruc- 
 tions to proceed, and was told to take with him a sufficient force of 
 laborers to open the trenches. He took a strong force of men with 
 him and the works proceeded. 
 
 Where was the scene of this proceeding ? Lower Brook street, Gros- 
 venor square, and neighborhood. The surveyor of pavements lowered 
 the demand for a deposit one-half, and ultimately, the Court of Sewers 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 77 
 
 directed vouchers for Is. 9d. per yard to be given, and deducted the 
 amount from the contractor's bill. 
 
 Is this of frequent occurrence 1 Not in that form ; but another con- 
 tractor was recently made to pay for nearly the entire width of a court 
 at the rate of 3s. per yard, although not nearly so much of the paving 
 had been taken up. In the Strand expensive pavement has just been 
 put down, but the old, open, and wide sewer grates are allowed to 
 remain, the surveyor of pavements there not approving of our new 
 form of grate. I mention these as the most recent, though they are 
 not perhaps the most important cases. 
 
 Do the parish officers afford assistance in carrying out the recent im- 
 provements adopted by your Commission ? I am sorry to say that, 
 although there are some exceptions, the reverse is generally the case ; 
 not with myself personally, but with the surveyor. 
 
 Are not these collisions the natural consequence of the present state 
 of things? Manifestly; and they are not confined to conflicts with 
 Paving Boards, but extend to water and gas companies. Thus, during 
 the last few weeks, the contractor for a sewer in Marylebone was 
 threatened by the officers of a water company to have the supply Jtept 
 constantly on so as to run from every h<5use-drain into the trench ; and 
 they actually threw in so much water as to endanger the work by wash- 
 ing out the sand. And notwithstanding the practice has been to re- 
 quire private companies to support their own pipes over an old public 
 sewer, (though we give them the cost in a new line,) in this case, 
 though our usual notice was served upon the company, they have 
 thought fit to call upon our contractors to support their pipes. 
 
 Does not the present system of demanding payment at once for the 
 works press very heavily and unequally upon property in the district? 
 No doubt it does. 
 
 Does not the plan of carrying on the works of one district, say dis- 
 trict A., out of funds raised in districts B and C, whilst districts B and 
 C remain undrained, constitute one main motive for exertion to get dis- 
 tricts drained first ? It does. The surveyor takes the matters up as early 
 and as regularly as he can, but, it really is a mere scramble for prece- 
 dency, and Commissioners in their respective neighborhoods are fre- 
 quently solicited to attend and press forward applications from parti- 
 cular districts. 
 
 What do you conceive would be the effect of diffusing the charge for 
 permanent works over a period of years, and levying the expense by 
 
78 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 equal yearly installments of principal and interest until the expense was 
 defrayed, so that district A instead of drawing- its expenditure from dis- 
 tricts B and C, would draw it from some capitalists' fund and pay in- 
 terest for the same until it was repaid ? The result would be, that the 
 burthen would be wonderfully lessened, and that the right parties 
 would bear it, and bear it in more just proportions. For example, the. 
 surveyor has proposed a plan by which an opportunity is afforded of 
 making the city of Westminster, that is, the parishes of St. Margaret 
 and St. John, probably the best instead of one of the worst drained 
 districts of the Commission, by carrying up to the proposed Victoria 
 street a new outfall-sewer ten feet deeper than any of the sewers yet 
 constructed, with a discharge below low water mark, and many other 
 collateral advantages ; but to effect this, one-third of the usual rate of 
 three pence in the pound over the largest district of the Commission 
 will be immediately required. Now if this money was borrowed and 
 spread over a series of thirty years, a payment of an average sum of 
 about c300 per annum (for principal and gradually decreasing interest.,) 
 or less than fourpence per house, would do all that is required for this 
 work, and future owners of property would bear their proportion of 
 this improvement, from which they will derive equal advantage with 
 the present landlords. 
 
 Would not this power, however, render it necessary to take great 
 care as to the parties to whom it should be intrusted ; as, if left un- 
 guarded, temptation for profuse expenditure might be afforded ? I 
 should so imagine. We have, however, unlimited power to borrow 
 money under our new act of last Session . 
 
 It appears from a printed Report of Mr. Phillips, that even on the 
 present improved system a sum of .20,000 is required to drain a tract 
 of land in Marylebone. Who will be the contributors to this drainage 
 of Marylebone ? The parishes of St. Clements Danes, St. Mary-le- 
 Strand, St. John Baptist, Savoy, St. Martin-in-the-Fields, St. Paul, 
 Covent Garden, part of St. Pancras and St. Giles, and Bloomsbury, 
 St. Ann, St. James, in addition to that part of the parish of Maryle- 
 bone, east of Regent street and Portland place. 
 
 The owners of the undrained property in courts and alleys in St. 
 Clements Danes will then have to pay for the branch sewers, as well 
 as the main sewers for draining Marylebone, their own remaining un- 
 drained^ Yes, until similar works are done in St. Clements, when 
 St. Marylebone will be called upon to pay for them. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 79 
 
 Within what time will they have to pay for the drainage of Maryle- 
 bone 1 As soon as possible ; a rate is now in preparation for the pur- 
 pose. 
 
 Within what time may they have drainage themselves out of the 
 district funds'? Many years, perhaps. It is quite uncertain. 
 
 Are there not many parts, of Westminster for instance, that have 
 been rated for centuries, and yet have no house drainage? No doubt 
 there are ; but it is only within forty years that houses have been al- 
 lowed to have sullage drainage at all. 
 
 But they have been rated ? Certainly. To the general rate. 
 
 Amounting sometimes to Is. and 2s. in the pound? Yes, formerly. 
 
 Do these places still pay rates? Yes. 
 
 Arid they have as yet no efficient drainage ? I do not consider it 
 efficient. 
 
 Supposing these works for Marylebone were paid for in thirty years, 
 by equal annual installments of principal and interest, what would be 
 the annual installment due from that part of the district which actually 
 receives the benefit? Including the gradually decreasing interest, it 
 would be rather more than <1100 at five per cent., I think. 
 
 That is for three thousand houses, as stated in the Report, between 
 Is. and Ss. per house annually? Yes. 
 
 That is about If d. per week ? Yes. 
 
 Do you not think that this might be much reduced ; that is, that 
 even your present plans may be much improved upon? Yes; I am 
 satisfied of it. Mr. Phillips, our surveyor, and myself have had much 
 conversation lately upon this point, and I believe he thinks, as I do, 
 that though much has been effected by his forms of sewers, &c., far 
 more remains to be done ; that is, provided we can get a sufficient sup- 
 ply of water, and control over it. 
 
 The adoption of this plan of spreading the payment over a period of 
 years would then save great discontent and pressure in the district from 
 undue preference of particular places and property out of systematic 
 course ; and would enable the authorities, in case of emergency, to 
 commence works in one district without so much prejudice to any 
 other? Of course it would. 
 
 Have you inspected the sewers yourself ? I have traversed within- 
 side all the principal main lines from one end to the other ; and I do 
 not think that any work exceeding =100 in value has been executed 
 that I have not visited several times. 
 
80 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What has been the result of your observations as to the sizes of the 
 sewers ? I have been perfectly at a loss to conceive why such immense 
 sewers should be built to carry off such mere threads of drainage. I 
 have often thought, and have so stated in Court, that the Commission- 
 ers generally, from viewing only the main lines, have a very false im- 
 pression as to the sizes required. I have seen sewers five feet six inches 
 high by three feet wide, being built where, even during heavy rain, a 
 three or four inch pipe would evidently have carried off all the water. 
 
 Will you look at these reduced sizes ? Do you think them, from 
 your observation, large enough to carry off even storm water? If pro- 
 perly systematized from the outlet upwards, no one who has paid 
 practical attention to the subject can doubt it. 
 
 Have you considered the building of all sewers by the public authori- 
 ties, and what would be the advantages, if any 1 I have ; and I am 
 convinced the result would be most advantageous to the public, cer- 
 tainly in economy, and I believe, in construction, also 
 
 Will you give the particulars ? I have no doubt that if the works 
 were all done by public contract a much cheaper form of sewer might, 
 in very many cases, be permitted than could be intrusted to private 
 builders and bricklayers. In a recent case a saving equal to the entire 
 cost of the work has been effected in this manner ; and I anticipate a 
 similar economy in the next work to be advertised. 
 
 You have recently effected some economy in the forms of sewers ; 
 will you state particulars ? I would briefly state it thus, in round 
 numbers : 
 
 Former price of sewer per foot run 21s. 
 
 Cost of new forms in 9-inch work -14s. 
 
 Cost of ditto, if built by public contract in 4-inch work , 7s. 
 
 Besides the saving in the use of pipes for gully and house drains. It 
 appears from our printed Returns, that the average length of all the 
 sewers built and rebuilt by the Westminster Commission, and also by 
 private individuals within the Westminster district, for the last seven 
 years, has been about seven miles per annum, which, calculated at the 
 average price of the old form, would have cost at least ,35,000 ; but, 
 if taken at 12s. per foot, the average cost of our new forms, that will 
 give about 23,000, saving about .12,000 per annum. It further ap- 
 pears that a general rate of Ifd. on our present rental would produce 
 about .22,000. Now, under the old system, the average of the rates 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 81 
 
 levied in our Commission, during the same period^ was rather more 
 than twopence in the pound per annum, besides leaving- the private 
 builders to pay for between five and six miles of sewer per annum, 
 built by themselves. If, therefore, our improvement of the old sewer- 
 age shall in future progress no faster than formerly, we may, in addition 
 thereto, build, even in 9-inch work, all those sewers now constructed 
 by private parties, with but very little increase of the present rates. 
 And if the economy already effected by our recent alterations in the 
 form of sewers alone has been so great, surely the economy to be ex- 
 pected from the improvements, not only in the sewers, but in the 
 house-drains also, under a systematic arrangement, would be such as 
 to make sanitary improvement a far easier thing than it yet appears to 
 be, even to the minds of practical persons. Another economy may be 
 effected by a consolidation of the collections. If the sewers'-rates were 
 collected by the poor-rate collectors, the poundage of the poor-rate col- 
 lections might be reduced in proportion as the amount to be collected 
 was increased by the sewers'-rate, and the sum now paid by the West- 
 minster Commission alone, of about <ltK)0 per annum, would at once 
 be saved. 2ndly, As to the construction : I foresee great improvement 
 in that respect also, under an improved management, but I should pre- 
 fer to leave the surveyor to speak to that point. 
 
 But, to return to the question as to size of sewers, would you think 
 it necessary to provide sewers large enough to carry off the waters of a 
 storm which might occur once in one hundred years ? It would be 
 better if it could be so managed without any great increase of expense. 
 
 But the inconvenience and expense of the large sewers are constant ? 
 Yes ; and during the very remarkable storm of August, 1846, I re- 
 member that the principal damage was done, so far as \ve heard at the 
 office, from the foul water forcing its way from the sewers up the un- 
 trapped drains, rather than from the storm water in the undrained dis- 
 tricts. Indeed, I do not think the damage in those districts was greater 
 than occurs in Westminster and Lambeth every excessively high tide. 
 If the paving and sewerage were under one control, I feel sure that an 
 excess of rain-water could be readily provided for upon the surface 
 during storms. 
 
 Then the flooding you allude to was with sewer water 1 Yes, it was. 
 
 A gentleman residing in Lodge Place, St. John's Wood, has stated 
 that, in August, 1846, the basements of his own and other houses in 
 that neighborhood were filled with sewer water four feet deep, and that 
 
82 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 they have only lately got rid of the annoyance ; and, moreover, that 
 the foundation of his house is giving way, in addition to the loss he 
 then sustained by the destruction of bedding, cutlery, and picture 
 frames ; and that all this was occasioned by the want of proper sewer- 
 age ? I know that such was the case on that occasion in several places, 
 especially in Pall Mall, and St. John's Wood. The evil in the latter 
 neighborhood is attributable not only to the want of a proper main 
 sewer, but also to the entire absence of branch sewers in several of the 
 long roads thereabouts. The main sewer at this point has been built 
 of a contracted form, to connect the larger portions above and below, 
 for the purpose of passing over the canal, and in times of storm the 
 sewer-water backs up and floods the houses adjacent for a long dis- 
 tance. Mr. Phillips has a plan prepared to remedy this evil, by carry- 
 ing the main sewer under instead of over the canal, but the branch 
 sewers will still remain to be built. 
 
 From your own experience and observation, do you believe that the 
 metropolis might be economically comprehended in one district, and 
 under one direction, for the several objects of sewerage and water sup- 
 ply and street paving, and without becoming too cumbersome? I have 
 well considered this subject, and I see no difficulties which any man of 
 business would not readily overcome; and I arn convinced that by a 
 reconstruction and consolidation of these matters, great advantage and 
 security would be obtained by the public. (With regard to the water 
 supply, I mean a supply adequate to all purposes of drainage and 
 cleansing.) But till I can see a return of the cost of the Paving Boards, 
 District Trusts, and similar bodies, I should not like to give a very de- 
 finite, answer as to the amount of saving. There are, in St. Pancras 
 alone, from fifteen to twenty Paving Boards, and nearly one thousand 
 Commissioners, and one of these Boards, I know, spends about .1000 
 a year for management, exclusive of works; the consequent waste in 
 every way, from want of consolidation, must be enormous. 
 
 Will you state some of the practical difficulties of the present state of 
 things in your own office ? To mention a case daily, almost hourly, 
 occurring, a person desires to lay a drain from his house to the sewer ; 
 the first step is to apply at the Sewers' Office, when in most cases, ex- 
 cept in very old districts, he is told that he must obtain the permission 
 of the party who built the sewer ; when this is done he calls again, 
 pays for the opening, and is informed that he must attend the next 
 meeting of the Court, causing a delay of from three days to two, and 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 83 
 
 sometimes three weeks ; he has then to apply to one of the numerous 
 Paving Boards to obtain leave to open the ground : and here again, 
 further delay must occur ; so soon as he has obtained the leave of the 
 owner of the sewer and of the Paving Board, he has to attend the 
 Court of Sewers, and when the ground is opened, ready for the ring, 
 &c., to be put into the sewer, he must again call, or send, to give no- 
 tice at the Sewers 7 office for the work to be done ; if, in taking out the 
 ground, his men should happen to damage a gas or water pipe, after 
 another puzzle as to which company or companies he is to apply, fur- 
 ther delay and trouble must supervene; even when there are no actual 
 fees to pay, there is time lost ; and as most persons employ a builder, 
 or otber agent, there is an actual disbursement rendered necessary ; 
 and this description of what should be so simple a matter as laying a 
 drain, though sufficiently harassing as it stands, is given upon the sup- 
 position that matters run smoothly on ; that all parties, Sewers' Office, 
 Sewers' Owner, Paving Board, and Water or Gas Company are all 
 agreed and willing to co-operate ; but when any hitch occurs, in any 
 one instance, it is evident that a great discouragement, perhaps, to a 
 poor man, an impassible barrier, is thrown in the way of so necessary 
 an adjunct to health and comfort as laying a drain from one's dwelling 
 into a sewer just in front of it ; but, on the other hand, supposing a 
 consolidation of all these matters to be effected, and that there were a 
 central office where all these details could be settled at once and in half 
 an hour, where, if any difficulty should arise, the chief officers of each 
 department could, within a short period, be congregated into one room, 
 if necessary, there would be an end to the delay and misconception oc- 
 casioned by one Board corresponding with another, no waiting for the 
 meeting of distant and sometimes contending bodies, and as the various 
 regulations would all emanate from one source, there would be no du- 
 bious or conflicting by-laws to reconcile, but in one short interview 
 the whole affair might be settled ; and any unforeseen occurrence, dur- 
 ing the progress of the work might be met and rectified, because the 
 same officer in each district would superintend all the practical branches 
 of the various details before enumerated. 
 
 Whatever ultimate measures may be taken by the Government, do 
 you not think that a general outline survey of the entire metropolis 
 should be the first and indispensable step 1 Yes ; and as each district 
 is finished, I see no reason why the details of the plan, and even some 
 of the improvements might not at once be commenced and safely pro- 
 
84 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ceeded with ; I verily believe that if the attention of the officers could 
 be concentrated upon a given district at once, even daring the progress 
 of the survey of the other portions, a thorough change in the present 
 state of things might, even with our present powers, be effected within 
 a few months. Indeed, I feel assured, that in three or four months the 
 wretchedly drained city of Westminster might be placed in such a 
 state of forwardness as not only vastly to improve the health of the pop- 
 ulation, but also permanently to increase the value of property ; I 
 name Westminster, because being a district below high-tide level, it is 
 isolated, and improvements might be carried on there at once, without 
 any fear that they would not fall in with the general plan when the 
 large survey is finished. 
 
 But we understand you to say that the consolidation of the adminis- 
 trative machinery would be necessary to turn the general survey to ac- 
 count for the purposes of improvement'? From my experience, and 
 after anxious consideration of the subject lately, I am thoroughly con- 
 vinced that but little, comparatively, will be effected for the public 
 welfare till all these matters, so similar in themselves, are consolidated 
 under one authority ; as, however, this may be almost too much to an- 
 ticipate for the public at once, I imagine that the most ready and most 
 practicable step toward this end would be the consolidation of the va- 
 rious Commissions of Sewers, and the immediate reduction into one 
 system of their present varying regulations ; indeed, the full benefit of 
 a general survey will scarcely be brought out until this step shall have 
 been taken as a necessary preliminary to any valuable measure 
 for the health of the metropolis ; for instance, in the suggestion which 
 I have just thrown out as to Westminster, if the Commissions were 
 consolidated, the energies of Mr. Roe and Mr. Phillips might be brought 
 to bear upon the same spot for a time, and I feel sure the results would 
 be most satisfactory. 
 
 Do you agree with the evidence of Mr. Phillips, which you have just 
 heard read 1 I have carefully attended to it, and I have not discover- 
 ed, upon practical points, the least difference in opinion between us ; I 
 most fully concur in all that he has said ; though I am painfully 
 aware of the extreme delicacy of the position in which I stand, as an 
 officer of the Court of Sewers for Westminster, I feel constrained to 
 make some remarks upon the replies of Mr. Phillips to the questions 
 with regard to the conduct of some of the Commissioners ; and in cor- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 85 
 
 roboration of what he has said in that respect, I think I ought to men- 
 tion that several of our best officers in the surveyor's department, who 
 have since left, but whose names I can hand in if required, have made 
 similar complaints ; when examined before the Health of Towns Com- 
 mission four years ago, I declined to answer questions of this nature, 
 but I feel that I ought no longer to remain silent, lest the responsibility 
 of further delay should, in any measure, rest with me : it will be per- 
 ceived that what Mr. Phillips and myself have now said, has reference 
 only to a section (though unhappily, a large and very active one,) of 
 the Commissioners ; and I feel bound to add that, since the addition 
 made by Lord Chancellor Cottenham in 1837-8, the officers have had 
 a weight removed from their shoulders under which they had long 
 groaned ; and if the Commissioners of Inquiry will permit me, I will 
 take this opportunity of publicly thanking those gentlemen for their 
 aid, not only in liberating the officers from a most paralyzing and de- 
 moralizing system, but also in effecting such great economy in the pub- 
 lic works; the list of divisions in the Court will point out their names; 
 I cannot, however, omit to mention tltus publicly the special services 
 rendered by Mr. John Leslie, and the Hon. Frederick Byng ; I am 
 very desirous of mentioning the names of other gentlemen also, but as 
 a selection might be considered invidious, I will only add that, as 
 the chairmen have been mentioned, I think it is but justice to state 
 that the gentleman who now generally occupies the chair (Captain 
 Bague, R. N.,) has taken precisely the opposite course to that of his 
 predecessors, and has assisted, to the best of his ability, in forwarding- 
 the improvements and reforms which the officers have been able to 
 bring forward, since they have been allowed to present their own opin- 
 ions without first submitting them to the chairman. 
 
 Do you consider architects, builders, agents, or persons in trade, or 
 attorneys, and conveyancers in practice, to be persons who can be con- 
 sidered qualified to act as " indifferent," (that is, impartial) Commis- 
 sioners within the meaning of the act ? Certainly not ; a person hav- 
 ing a delicate sense of public duty would scarcely like, if he had a pre- 
 vious knowledge of the fact, to accept an office in which he could not 
 act in an unbiassed manner without frequently offending his employers 
 and customers ; and in which, if he could not be tempted unduly to 
 to make friends, he would be sure to make bitter enemies. 
 
 Is there not a clause in your recent act prohibiting Commissioners 
 6 
 
86 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 * 
 
 from acting, when interested, under a heavy penally? There is a 
 clause, but no penalty is attached to it. 
 
 How is it that (he clause was so loosely worded 1 Who drew the 
 clause? The clause, as originally drawn, contained the penalty, but 
 the Court of Sewers struck it out before it went to Parliament. 
 
 Is the effect of the clause apparent ? Is it serviceable to protect the 
 public? I fear not; in a recent instance, when the chairman rebuked 
 a Commissioner interested for voting, he said he should do as he pleased, 
 there was no penalty. 
 
 Have you not those who are or have been bankrupt traders and out- 
 laws remaining and acting on the Commission ? There are several 
 who have been so ; of their exact position, as to certificates, &c,, I am 
 uncertain. 
 
 Are there not persons on your Committee of Accounts who have 
 been bankrupt ? Yes, there are. 
 
 How many does the Committee consist of? Six. 
 
 Of whom how many have been bankrupt or insolvent ? Three, I 
 believe ; certainly two. 
 
 Have you not fair reason to infer, and that constantly, connection, 
 more or less direct, in the supply of goods or execution of works be- 
 tween trading and professional Commissioners, which you have no 
 means of proving judicially ? I regret to be obliged to say that among 
 a certain class of the Commissioners, private rather than public interest 
 appears generally to be consulted. 
 
 Will you give a few instances? The following is one : Prices are 
 sent in to the surveyor by several parties ; a Commissioner calls and 
 inspects them ; on the following day or so, notice is received from one 
 of the parties who sent in the prices (on whose premises the Commis- 
 sioner was seen after the inquiries at the office) stating that the price 
 first sent in was an error, and substituting the price of the lowest ten- 
 der ; again, I state in Court (as clerk,) that a certain notice has not 
 been received from a public company, which, under their act, they 
 ought to have given ; a Commissioner being an officer of that public 
 company, leaves the Court, and in an hour afterward the notice ar- 
 rives ; I could pass in review the meetings of the Court from lime to 
 time, and in the greater part of them I could cite something of that 
 kind more or less palpable ; I again repeat that I speak of a section of 
 the Court only ; unhappily, however, those Commissioners who took 
 the most active part in obtaining a fair hearing for the officers have not 
 
JMETROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 87 
 
 recently attended the Court, and things are gradually resuming their 
 former state. 
 
 Would, however, any alteration in the present names vary your con- 
 clusions in respect to the consolidation of the Commissions 1 Certainly 
 not ; the consolidation could not possibly be effectual without an alter- 
 ation in the class of names. 
 
 Do the district surveyors interfere in those places where houses are 
 being built, from the owners of which they will receive fees for super- 
 intendence ? Some of them in the new districts do very much. 
 
 Can you give any recent instance ? I will give one out of several 
 which occurred about the same time : A speculative builder, on a 
 large scale, applies to the Court to provide him an outlet by rebuilding- 
 a sewer ; the Court decides that he must build the sewer himself, as 
 what he imagined to be a sewer is only a road drain ; the builder ac- 
 cordingly presents a petition for leave to build a sewer about nine hun- 
 dred feet in length at his own expense, which the Court grants ; he, 
 however, meets the district surveyor upon the stairs, who tells him that 
 the Court has decided wrongly, advises^him to return and withdraw his 
 petition, and persuade the Court to build the sewer at the public ex- 
 pense, which was accordingly done at a cost of about ,700. 
 
 What is the average attendance of Commissioners at your meet- 
 ings ? About thirty. 
 
 Do the Commissioners remain during the whole sitting of the Court ? 
 Very rarely indeed ; I may say never. 
 
 Do half that number 1 No. 
 
 Do not some stop a few minutes only, just to put down their names 
 as having attended 1 Some few do so. 
 
 Not to mention names, will you look at this list of the division on 
 Mr. Phillips' improved forms of sewers, and state what professions the 
 several gentlemen voting have followed'? There weretfor the amended 
 form sixteen, viz., one clerk in a public office, one tea-dealer, one 
 builder, one stationer, two pastry-cooks, one barrister, one silversmith, 
 one attorney, two architects, one mason, one ironmonger, two tailors, 
 and one pawnbroker; Against the new form there were five who 
 voted ; three architects, one attorney, and one ironmonger, making 
 in all twenty-one. 
 
 How many were summoned on so important a subject'? About one 
 hundred and forty. 
 
 And only twenty-one voted ? Yes. 
 
8 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 How many architects and builders were summoned 1 Between thirty 
 and forty. 
 
 And only three voted for the amended form ? Only three. 
 
 You have had various complaints in respect to the administration of 
 the sewers from parishes and from other local authorities, have you 
 not? Yes, we have ; and of late much more frequently than hereto- 
 fore. Except during the time of the cholera, and very recently, \\e 
 have not had many complaints from the parish Boards. 
 
 Have any of those complaints been directed to the forms or the effi- 
 ciency of the works, or the expense of them ? I do not remember a 
 single instance. 
 
 Nothing that marked any perception of the defects of the works gen- 
 erally 1 Sometimes a complaint has been made that some local drain- 
 age was bad, but the complaint was always in general terms. 
 
 Were the complaints accompanied will) any suggestions of improve- 
 ments? No; indeed, the Commissioners of Sewers have rather been 
 the complainants against the local Boards. In one instance, under an 
 improvement Act for the parish of Chelsea, obtained a year or two 
 ago, some active steps have been taken. But, in general, the powers 
 under local Acts for sewerage and drainage are allowed to lie entirely 
 dormant. In the Tothill-fields' Trust some works have been done, but 
 we have been compelled to call out a jury to amerce very poor tenants, 
 principally washerwomen, as much as <30 a- piece, in order to enforce 
 the abatement of a nuisance, under the powers of the Tol hill-fields 
 Act, on the property of the Dean and Chapter of Westminster. 
 Where the Parochial Boards have the remedy in their own hands no- 
 thing has been done ; even where they have power to call upon the Court 
 of Sewers to repair and cleanse defective sewers, drains, and cesspools, 
 and when, if not done forthwith, they may do the work themselves, 
 and recover the amount from the Commissioners of Sewers. As in- 
 stances of the mischievous effect of the division of authorities, I will 
 mention that we have been unable to induce the referees under the 
 Building Act to compel a builder, brought before them by their own 
 officer (the district surveyor,) to drain more than one-half of his pro- 
 perty, although there is a sewer into which it is " lawful and practica- 
 ble" to drain within one hundred feet of the whole of the property ; 
 and in Westminster a sewer cannot be built by a local trust in a di- 
 rection which would give a far better fall than that which they pro- 
 pose, because the better line runs through a street just outside of their 
 jurisdiction* 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 89 
 
 Have not the inconveniences of this disunion of the naturally-con- 
 nected works of paving and drainage been early manifested? They 
 were discovered many years ago. Here is a copy of a petition for a 
 Commission in or about 1770, which I met with at the Crown Office a 
 few days back, when inquiring about our new Commission : 
 " To the Right Hon. HENRY EARL BATHURST, Lord High Chancellor 
 of Great Britain, the Right Hon. the LORD CHIEF JUSTICE of either 
 Bench, and the Right Hon. the LORD CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY 
 OF LANCASTER. 
 
 " The Humble Petition of the Right Hon. Granville Leveson, Earl 
 Gower, the Right Hon. Lord George Sackville Germain, Sir Charles 
 Whitworth, Knight, Owen Salisbury Brereton, John JPlurnptre, Wil- 
 liam Adair, Esquires, General Studholm Hodson, and Thomas Bullard, 
 Esquire, 
 " SHOWETH, 
 
 " THAT a Commission of Sewers for the Parishes of Hampton, 
 Teddington, Twickenham, Islewortjj, Hanwell, Brentford, Acton, 
 Ealing, Hammersmith, Fulham, Kensington and Chelsea, in the county 
 of Middlesex, and to and within the City and Liberty of Westminster 
 and precincts of the same, and so to Temple Bar, within the said 
 County, and from thence to and within the Parishes of St. Giles-in- 
 the-Fields, and St. George, Bloomsbury, Pancras, Marylebone, Hamp- 
 steacl, Wilsden, and Paddington, and so to the river Thames, in the 
 County aforesaid, or in the borders or confines of the same, is now 
 subsisting under the Great Seal of Great Britain, and another Com- 
 mission of Sewers for the same places under the Seal of the Duchy of 
 Lancaster, issued on account of some parts of the said limits lying 
 within the Liberty of the said Duchy, both which Commissions bear 
 date in December, 1768. 
 
 " That the business of sewers has been managed by a few Commis- 
 sioners, as several that are named in the said Commission are deceased 
 and many others have not acted or qualified themselves to act. 
 
 " That the Commission is very ancient, and justly esteemed of the 
 utmost importance, as the property, health, and convenience of many 
 thousands within the aforesaid limits depend upon the faithful and 
 diligent execution of the trust reposed in the Commissioners. 
 
 " That the Commissioners of Pavement mentioned in the list an- 
 nexed are of great fashion and property, and much interested in the 
 expenditure of the money raised on account of the sewers. 
 
90 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 " That the business of the two Commissions frequently interfere with 
 each other, insomuch that the city of London have applied to Parlia 
 ment and obtained an Act to unite them, from which great conveni- 
 ence has arisen. 
 
 " That the Commissioners of Pavement meet weekly, and will 
 thereby be enabled to give the most speedy relief where matters of 
 complaint may arise ; and at their meetings they pay their own ex- 
 penses. 
 
 " Your petitioners, therefore, pray that your Lordships will be pleased 
 to grant your warrant for new Commissions of Sewers for the limits 
 aforesaid, one under the Great Seal of Great Britain, and the other 
 under the Seal of the Duchy of Lancaster, directed to the persons 
 named in the list annexed, or such of them, or such others as your 
 Lordships shall be pleased to appoint. 
 
 " And your petitioners will ever pray." 
 
 (Here follow the Signatures as above.) 
 
 What are the " wages" allotted under Act 23d of Henry the Eighth 
 to the substantial and "indifferent" men named as Commissioners? 
 Four shillings for each day they take pains in the execution of the 
 Commission. 
 
 You have stated that the gentlemen who attended your Court for the 
 purpose of arresting what appears to have been waste, and in order to 
 promote economy and efficiency, have slackened in their attendance. 
 Do you consider the work itself of a nature to interest or to engage 
 continuous weekly attendance and exertions'? Certainly not. The 
 subject in itself has few attractions ; indeed, to this I trace the Com- 
 missioners' anxiety for the continuance of the dinners. On dinner 
 days, as we call them, the attendances are more numerous and con- 
 tinuous, and of quite a different complexion. 
 
 Have the attendances of the architects, builders, and practicing at- 
 torneys diminished? No ; I think the reverse. 
 
 Does the dinner party consist of that class of Commissioners 1 They 
 compose the majority of it ; without them it would soon expire. 
 
 Presuming the entire respectability of the tradesmen and professional 
 men above described, can you say that any one of them had paid such 
 special attention to the subject of the sewerage, and the connected 
 questions of hydraulics, that if you were the owner of buildings, and 
 had to expend your own money in works of drainage, you would ap- 
 ply to any of them for advice, or would intrust to them your own 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 91 
 
 money for the purpose? The pertinacious resistance offered by a cer- 
 tain class of architects to the recent improvements, and the extraordi- 
 nary objections taken by some of them, astonished me, and convinced 
 rne that drainage is a subject to which they have not attended. In 
 1844 the question was referred to several architects standing high in 
 their profession, and taking a prominent part at our Court ; and though 
 they appear to have felt the necessity of a reduction of the size of 
 sewers, they proposed a considerable addition to the cost per foot run, 
 in order to have a granite bottom. They strongly recommended a 
 sewer calculated to cost,. at their lowest estimate, 16s. 4d. per foot run, 
 exclusive of the digging, which would be about one-third more. Mr. 
 Cumberlege, Mr. Chas. May hew, and Mr. Pownall, however, assisted 
 very materially in breaking up the old order of things, and in carrying 
 through the new plans ; but they seldom attend at present. 
 
 In the Report of the Committee of the House of Commons on the 
 Sewerage of the Metropolis, 1834, there is the following passage given 
 on the 24th of March : 
 
 SEWERS, 1834. 
 
 " Extract from the Evidence of Mr. James Walker., Surveyor to the 
 
 Poplar Commission. 
 
 " Do you conceive that the works of the Commissioners at present 
 are well executed'? I know of no public works, and I have been em- 
 ployed by a great many public Boards and companies, and I know at 
 present no public concern of which the works are better done, and in 
 which the public interest is better consulted, than that part of London 
 where I now live, viz., the Westminster district. 
 
 a There is the utmost possible security for the public for the perform- 
 ance of all contracts for those works 1 Yes, as far as I know. The 
 chairman of the Commission was an architect, and is a magistrate of 
 the county, and he devotes his whole time and attention to the manage- 
 ment of the Westminster sewers, and I think very, very much to the 
 benefit of the public; the works are done in the very best possible 
 manner. 
 
 " You approve of their plans, and the general management of their 
 works 1 The particular plan of the great work is my own and my 
 partner's ; but as regards the management, I must say, in that work 
 nothing in the mode of contracting could be more open and consistent 
 
92 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 with the public good than that was ; the work is now a little- above 
 Vauxhall bridge to speak for itself. When the French engineers, sent 
 over by their government, were in this country last year, nothing 
 seemed to attract their attention more than the sewage of London ; 
 the idea at present being to drain Paris ; but their ideas of the proposed 
 drainage never extended to more than taking away the surface drain- 
 age, and they seemed astonished when I told them that the water from 
 our lowest cellars drains into those great sewers. 
 
 " Did they go over the sewers of London? Partly; they made a 
 plan of the work I have alluded to, at the outlet of King's Scholars' 
 Pond Sewer, and all that they could see they took. I recommended 
 them to apply to that which 1 1 considered the very best authority, the 
 Westminster Commissioners, to see the way in which the work was 
 done ; but when applied to as a professional man for my ideas as to 
 draining Paris, I refused to give any opinion without having plans and 
 sections of the streets. 
 
 " You have been employed upon more than one Commission ? 
 Three in London ; but as a civil engineer I have been employed in 
 many different parts of the country. 
 
 "With reference to the works executed tinder the Westminster Com- 
 mission, they are not only good in design, but exceedingly durable in 
 construction? Very much so. 
 
 "And the very best materials employed? Yes." 
 
 Is this Mr. Walker the engineer who was President of the Institute 
 of the Civil Engineers? No doubt it is. 
 
 Yet the set of works and the form of sewers as then in use, and the 
 set of works then carried out, was the set which has since been demon- 
 strated to be erroneous in science, and has been superseded as ineffi- 
 cient and wasteful? Yes. The Court of Sewers for Westminster have 
 so declared, having found it necessary totally to change their form of 
 sewers since that period. And if the special work to which Mr. Walker 
 refers be the King's Scholars' Pond Sewer, though I scarcely like to 
 dispute such an authority, I must say that we differ here most essen- 
 tially ; and I think I could convince Mr. Walker that he relied too 
 much upon the architect of whom he speaks, if I were to have a quarter 
 of an hour's quiet conversation with him, with the plan of the entire 
 district, and the Reports of Mr. Rennie and Mr. Tredgold, in 1807, 
 before us. 
 
 Have new sewers been built under the Houses of Parliament ? Yes, 
 in 1838-9, 1 think. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 93 
 
 Have applications been recently made to your office in respect to 
 them? Yes. 
 
 Will you produce any correspondence which has passed respecting 
 them 1 I will. 
 
 Copy of Letter sent to Mr. Barry by Surveyor. 
 
 " SEWERS' OFFICE, No. 1, GREEK STREET, } 
 " Soho square, October 20, 1846. \ 
 " SIR : 
 
 " In consequence of your complaint to me that the deposit in the 
 sewer in Abingdon street formed an obstruction to the discharge of the 
 sewage from the sewer which communicates therewith from the New 
 Houses of Parliament, I went into them on Thursday last for the pur- 
 pose of examining them, and now beg to report to you the result of 
 my examination. 
 
 " There are two flaps placed across the sewer from the New Houses 
 of Parliament, one of which is made of slate, and is fixed close to its 
 junction with the sewer in Abingdon street, and the other is made of 
 wood, and is fixed about sixty feet backwards from it. These flaps are 
 very heavy and clumsy, and are badly constructed for allowing the 
 water and sewage to run off freely. This sewer is on the same level 
 as the one in Abingdon street, and its bottom, for a few feet outside 
 each flap, is sunk about nine inches, so as to allow the flaps to close the 
 sewer ; consequently, the water and deposit outside, by pressing against 
 them, prevents the sewage inside, until it accumulates to a great extent, 
 from forcing them open. 
 
 " From the bad construction, therefore, of these flaps, as well as the 
 improper form and levels of these sewers themselves, the sewage is be- 
 ing constantly pent back, and the sewer under the New Houses of 
 Parliament forms, as it were, an elongated cesspool, the great evil of 
 which must eventually be very obnoxious and injurious. Both sewers 
 now contain a large accumulation of soil, and from their present ar- 
 rangement and construction, I do not see how this can be otherwise, or 
 ever obviated unless a systematic plan of flushing be adopted, which 
 will cause constant attention and great expense. But had the sewer 
 along Abingdon street, as also that communicating therewith, running 
 under the New Houses of Parliament, been properly formed in the first 
 place, they would have kept themselves clean without the assistance 
 of flushing. 
 
 u In consequence of these defects, I am of opinion that the main 
 
94 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 drainage of the New Houses of Parliament should be entirely re- 
 arranged, and diverted from its present course. 
 
 ee Should you feel disposed to perfect the same, for which there are 
 ample facilities at hand, I shall be most happy to afford you any assis- 
 tance in my power relative thereto. 
 
 " I am, Sir, 
 
 " Your most obedient servant, 
 (Signed) JOHN PHILLIPS, 
 
 Surveyor." 
 To CHARLES BARRY, ESQ., 
 
 What size and sorts of house-drains do architects commonly recom- 
 mend for insertion 1 The Building Act requires a 9-inch drain as a 
 minimum, under the advice of architects, of course. 
 
 From your own observation and experience, and judging by such 
 examples, if you were the owner of property which required an exten- 
 sive outlay, would you, if you were unaware of tSie possession of any 
 special knowledge by them, intrust the outlay of your own money, 
 even to a court or assemblage composed entirely of architects, any 
 more than to an assemblage of tradesmen in the present ordinary state 
 of professional knowledge and of common interests in the amounts ex- 
 pended ? From the experience I have had in the Westminster Court 
 of Sewers, I should prefer to consult clear headed non-professional men 
 rather than architects engaged in the ornamental and fine arts depart- 
 ment of their profession, and mainly because such men would be less 
 prejudiced, and have less to unlearn. The increase of expense pro- 
 posed by architects for the sake of having granite bottoms to all sewers ; 
 and the varied professions and trades of those Commissioners who were 
 in favor of the improved forms of sewers, while the architects were in 
 opposition, will illustrate my meaning. 
 
 For the successful prosecution of such works, then, special attention 
 and practice and skill, with a responsibility and an interest in the 
 attainment of the ends in the most economical way, are necessary? 
 They are the main requisites, doubtless. Without them, here, as in 
 other things, we seldom get beyond mediocrity. 
 
 At the time of the passing of the Act, in the reign of Henry VIII., 
 45. per diern would be equivalent to about 245. per diem of our money. 
 The following list will show you what were the salaries of some of the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 95 
 
 judges and crown officers at the latter end of the reign of Henry VIII., 
 and if you multiply each sum by six, it will give you the equivalent in 
 our money : 
 
 PER ANNUM. 
 
 s. d. 
 
 Chief Justice of the King's Bench 154 
 
 " Common Pleas.., 130 
 
 Chief Baron 133 
 
 Puisne Judges , 100 
 
 Chancellor of the Exchequer 26 13 4 
 
 Chamberlain of the Exchequer 52 3 4 
 
 Chamberlain of King's Household 20 
 
 The French Secretary , 40 
 
 Chief Surgeon 26 13 4 
 
 Under Clerk of Parliament 500 
 
 Solicitor General 10 
 
 Constable of the Tower 100 
 
 From such a payment, is it not clear that a high standard of position 
 was intended to be established to insure the impartiality or " indiffer- 
 ence" requisite for the exercise of such functions? Yes ; and remem- 
 bering what tradesmen then were, it is quite clear that they were not 
 intended. I have, indeed, heard, as an office tradition, that formerly 
 the business of our Commission was transacted in the Court of Queen's 
 Bench, that the Chief Justice occupied the chair,- a few Commissioners 
 only surrounding him. I should scarcely think a multiplication by six 
 sufficient ; I imagine that eight or nine times the amount would be 
 nearer the present value. 
 
 You spoke just now of your Committee of Accounts. Does it work 
 well? I had anticipated very beneficial results from the appointment 
 of a Committee who would go into the accounts, but the attendances 
 have been so bad that I scarcely know what to say. We have sum- 
 moned the Committee fourteen or fifteen times this year, and only five 
 times have we had a quorum of three. 
 
 To what do you attribute this 1 I cannot be sure of the motive. 
 
 Are they entitled to the 4s. on that as on other Committees ? No ; 
 they are not. 
 
 Have you seen the Parliamentary Paper, No. 686, of last Session, 
 containing Mr. Leslie's charges against the Westminster Commission, 
 and the reply of the Court, together with Mr. Leslie's rejoinder? I 
 have. 
 
96 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Do you consider that the points of objection, made by Mr. Leslie, 
 were met by the reply of the Court'? I do not think that they were 
 fairly met. You speak of it as the reply of the Court, but I have 
 never so considered it. The Court, upon receipt of the letter from the 
 Secretary of State, referred Mr. Leslie's pamphlet to a Committee, who 
 nominated Alderman Johnson, chairman ; the alderman prepared a 
 Report, but having in the interim become Lord Mayor, the duties of 
 his station prevented his completing it. The late chairman of the 
 court drew up the reply. The following resolution of the Committee, 
 given at page 48, will explain the affair : 
 
 " Resolved, unanimously , That the Committee have read with deep 
 attention the condensed Report prepared by the chairman of the Com- 
 mittee, the Lord Mayor, so far as it embraces the subject; but inas- 
 much as it is incomplete, and as it is important for the Committee to 
 draw its labors immediately to a close, and feeling, also, that, the na- 
 ture of the pamphlet, under review, requires a more detailed reply than 
 that contemplated in the Lord Mayor's Report, deem it prudent to 
 adopt the full Report drawn up and already generally approved by the 
 Committee, and that the same, with Appendices, be submitted at an 
 early meeting of the Court." 
 
 But surely the court approved it? No; a Court was summoned, 
 and the Report and Minutes of the Committee were read. An order 
 was made to send a copy to the Secretary of State and to each Com- 
 missioner, and thanks were voted to the Committee, and congratula- 
 tions to the Lord Mayor; but the document was not put for the ap- 
 proval of the Court. Only thirty-five Commissioners were present 
 during the whole meeting. 
 
 Was it not an omission on the part of the chairman not to put the 
 Report of the Committee for approval of the Court ? Who was in the 
 chair 1 The same Commissioner who drew up the Report. 
 
 In the official return, at page 49, the attendance of the Commis- 
 sioners, forming the Committee appear as follows : 
 
 ATTENDANCES. 
 
 Thomas L. Donaldson 222 
 
 Edward Willoughby 164 
 
 William Hawkes. 144 
 
 Frederick Grace 91 
 
 John White 89 
 
 Henry Harrison 51 
 
 John Johnson . 39 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 97 
 
 Do you know how it happened that the gentleman who had least 
 attended to the business was chosen to be chairman of the Committee ? 
 I do not. 
 
 It appears that Alderman Johnson was not in the Commission till 
 1839, while some of the Committee were nominated in 1806; do you 
 know why, as the Committee complain that the charges were old, the 
 junior Commissioner was appointed chairman ? No. The fact is, 
 that the worthy Alderman had very little to do with it. 
 
 Will you state your own impression as to the correctness of Mr. 
 Leslie's facts and conclusions in his pamphlet and in his rejoinder? 
 His facts in both cases are quite unimpeachable. Of course his infer- 
 ences are open to question. 
 
 There are, however, two or three prominent statements, and charges 
 founded upon them ; for instance 
 
 As to the self-nomination of the Court. 
 
 As to the intricacy of the surveyors' accounts. 
 
 As to the heavy excess of the cost above the estimates in many 
 
 cases . 
 
 As to a series of suspicious circumstances on each occasion of ob- 
 taining contracts. 
 
 As to unfair measurements of depths. 
 As to the better management in the works of the Holborn and 
 
 Finsbury Commission. 
 
 On these several points we should be glad to know whether you coin- 
 cide in opinion with the reply of the Committee? Upon the face of 
 the documents, which were prepared under the direction of the Com- 
 mittee, and which are most of them appended by Mr. Leslie to his 
 rejoinder, I could not have come to the conclusion the Committee came 
 to in those cases. The Committee evidently felt what my opinion 
 was; indeed, I made no secret of it, and the report was not even 
 copied in my office, but by a law stationer, employed by one of the 
 Committee. 
 
 The Committee, we perceive, take no notice whatever of the charges 
 made by Mr. Leslie before the Health of Towns Commission. Will 
 you state your opinion as to his correctness on a few of the matters 
 brought forward by him; for instance : 
 
 The employment formerly of Commissioners as contractors for 
 
 works. 
 
 The strange j^j^ceedings, as regards the purchase of the Court- 
 house 
 
98 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The increase allowed to parties after they had obtained contracts. 
 
 The statement connected with the diversion of the Rnnelagh 
 
 sewer at Bayswater, and the subsequent failure of those works. 
 
 The alleged mistake as to quantities which gave the contract to 
 
 the wrong parties. 
 
 I believe Mr. Leslie's statements to be quite consistent with the facts. 
 I should add, however, that the error, as to the bricks, appears to me 
 to have been a clerical error. 
 
 Are the additional statements made in Mr. Leslie's rejoinder respect- 
 ing the proceedings attendant upon the purchase of the Westminster 
 Court House correct? They are. 
 
 Is the document at p. 26, amounting to an anticipatory record of 
 the proceedings of a meeting of the Court, at which nearly <25,000 
 were ordered to be spent, without notice, at one time and place, really 
 in the handwriting of a Commissioner'? It is. , 
 
 Are the further statements of Mr. Leslie as to the circumstances 
 connected with the contracts correct 1 I believe them to be so. 
 
 Can it be that the documents prepared for the Committee, with 
 respect to the quantities for the contracts of 1836 prove the reverse, or 
 nearly so, of what they state in their reply 1 I think so. But the 
 papers, added to Mr. Leslie's rejoinder (at pages 29 and 54), will speak 
 for themselves. 
 
 Are the statements as to improper measurements correct also? That 
 is my belief. 
 
 Was a passage in Mr. White's paper suppressed as stated? It was; 
 with his consent. 
 
 It has been stated that formerly the names of the juries used to be 
 forwarded from the Court to the Sheriff. Can this be so? The prac- 
 tice has long been discontinued ; but such was the case formerly, no 
 doubt. 
 
 Were not the names of the tradesmen of the Court in those lists, 
 and are not the names of some gentlemen who are now in the Com- 
 mission, to be found in them ? I believe so. Of course this was be- 
 fore I had any thing to do with the Commission. 
 
 In Mr. Leslie's rejoinder, he accuses a Commissioner of making the 
 surveyors state what was untrue in their report, as to a property upon 
 which he was employed as architect, if not personally interested in it. 
 Is that so? Yes. I have no doubt of it. The alteration in the report, 
 so as to abstain from referring to that Commissioner, is very palpable. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 99 
 
 It appears that lhat sewer cost the public 487 16s. 8d., exclusive 
 of paving. What would a sewer of Mr. Phillips' improved form for 
 courts be built for 1 About <50 for the sewer ; and I ain sure such 
 extras would not be thought of now. 
 
 Was the chairman in the habit of altering the surveyor's reports? 
 Yes ; he was. 
 
 Did not the officer remonstrate? He had been accustomed to it for 
 so many years that he thought nothing of it ; but I pointed out to him 
 the impropriety of recommending what he did not approve, and he at 
 length summoned up resolution to omit sending his reports to the 
 chairman. 
 
 What was the result? The chairman obtained an order at the 
 next Court, that both the clerk and surveyor should submit all re- 
 ports to him in future. But the order was not regular, as no notice 
 was given of it. 
 
 Have you any thing to add to your examination? Throughout my 
 examination I have given the first instances which memory has sug- 
 gested ; and should it be thought that I have expressed myself strongly, 
 I can only say, that if I have said much, I have very much more to 
 add, if needful. One expression, in the commencement of the second 
 part of my examination, may require explanation. I have spoken of 
 a " demoralizing system" under which the office labored; now, Mr. 
 Leslie has proved that the two chief surveyors were induced, under the 
 influence of a Commissioner, to state what was not true; and Mr. 
 Phillips has shown, lhat under the fear of some one, the clerks of the 
 works habitually attested what was not the fact. To this I will add 
 one single circumstance which will, I think, establish the point : A 
 short time since it was found that a large district had been described on 
 the plans as being in one division, whereas it was in another, and had 
 of course been rated accordingly. When this was clearly ascertained, 
 I spoke to the officer who had laid down the line of demarkation, 
 when he said he knew that it was so, but a late chairman had so 
 ordered ; " Then," said I, " You have, for many years, and on oath, 
 misled the presentment juries." He replied, " Yes, but there was an 
 order of Court for it." 
 
 Have you read the evidence of Sir George Phillips? I have. 
 He complains of the way in which he has been treated by the Court 
 of Sewers for Westminster? He does; but, under the existing regil- 
 
100 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 lations, he has been treated belter than ninety-nine out of every one 
 hundred cases that come before the Court. He has had an outfall 
 brought up for him, and is expected to carry on the sewer himself. 
 
 But it will not be altogether for his own benefit, will it? Certainly 
 not. 
 
 How does it happen, that so many persons were in waiting? There 
 were on that day, I remember, some tenders opened earlier than usual, 
 and some parties in attendance from Drury lane, but a great part were 
 petitioners for sewers and drains, no doubt. 
 
 Why is it necessary to require petitioners for ordinary works to 
 attend? In my opinion, it is quite unnecessary. Other Commissions 
 do not require it, and it has always been a very fruitful source of com- 
 plaint against our Commission. I have long tried to get it altered, and 
 in July last, at a special meeting summoned to consider the steps to be 
 taken under our new act, I drew the attention of the Court to the fact 
 that we had, by public advertisements, warned all builders that they 
 were liable to an indefinite penalty, if they proceeded, till their build- 
 ings were properly drained ; and I suggested that the same powers 
 should be intrusted to the surveyor of the Westminster Commission as 
 were exercised by the officers of other Commissions, as to granting 
 leave for ordinary sewers and drains. The solicitor gave it as his 
 opinion, that some such regulation was absolutely necessary, and the 
 Court were pleased to vote, by a majority of one to thirteen, as fol- 
 lows : 
 
 " Ordered That, in order to prevent inconvenience to the public, 
 the clerk and the surveyor be conjointly empowered to grant permis- 
 sion to proceed with the necessary works to such persons as shall pre- 
 sent applications in the usual form for sewers and drains, and who will 
 bind themselves to abide by the printed regulations of the Court with 
 regard thereto ; a list of the applications so granted being presented at 
 the next meeting of the Court." 
 
 But the same Commissioner, who was in the minority of one, suc- 
 ceeded at a subsequent Court in getting the order rescinded. You will 
 perceive that the order was very carefully worded to guard against any 
 abuse of power ; as originally drawn, it referred to the surveyor only, 
 but the clerk was associated with him by the Court. Its repeal has 
 caused much dissatisfaction, as the public are greatly annoyed at being 
 made to attend the Court, and necessarily lose much time, merely to 
 have their names called, and to be told their petitions are granted. If 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 101 
 
 this plan had been adopted years ago, a painful case, which I had 
 recently to report, of an officer receiving money for a sewer, and keep- 
 ing it for several years, could scarcely have occurred, the public would 
 have been spared much loss of time, and the Court would have escaped 
 very much ill will on the part of builders. 
 
 Out of the whole fifty cases, who appear to have been in attendance 
 on the day mentioned, what proportion do you consider need have 
 attended under a proper arrangement of business, in which the 
 greatest proportion would be dispatched by competent and really 
 responsible officers, that is to say, by paid officers? The Court room 
 and the adjoining room were full of applicants when Sir George Phil- 
 lips came. I do not know the precise object of the whole of them; 
 but except as to the decision on the tenders, scarcely one need have 
 been present. There were some parties summoned for irregularities in 
 drainage, which, under proper regulations, would not have occurred. 
 
 Is this instance a fair specimen of the current business of a Court 
 day ? It is, of a heavy day ; we onjy got through about half the 
 business, and had a remanent paper for 'another Court day. 
 
 Would not many of the parties not only have weeks to wait to 
 obtain the consent of the Court, but would have to come long distances 
 to attend ? Our office being at the extreme eastern end of the district^ 
 and the building operations being principally at the north-western and 
 other extremities, the petitioners must, in most cases, have come con- 
 siderable distances. The cases of several who were not in attendance 
 stood over until the next Court. 
 
 What would be the charges of architects or builders, or other agents 
 per diem for attendance? I do not know what their charges are. 
 Architects or respectable builders^ however, would not, I should think, 
 charge less than a guinea for the time lost in attending, and in going 
 to and fro and getting a petition passed. 
 
 They have to attend several times at the office? Yes. 
 
 Supposing then that the time of each of the fifty persons was worth 
 10s. the day, on the average, it would appear that time to the value of 
 some 2b for the Court day was consumed needlessly ? No doubt it 
 is so. 
 
 How many Court days have you in the year ? Twenty-five ordinary 
 Courts, and about as many extraordinary Courts. 
 
 Do you think .1200 per annum would be a fair estimate of the 
 waste of the public time, in the mode described ? Taking into con- 
 7 
 
102 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sideraiion the preliminary calls at our office, and upon the owners of 
 the sewers and the Paving Boards, that must surely be an estimate 
 greatly he low (he truth. 
 
 Under a system of management in which the interests of the public 
 were consulted, and time properly economized, would it not be n good 
 arrangement to have branch offices at which information might, be given, 
 and sanctions expressed by competent officers as to sell led points? I 
 have constantly mentioned the necessity of a brunch office at Kensing- 
 ton or Knightsbridge ; and the public lime, there can be no doubt, 
 might be largely economized in that way. But, if the works were 
 conducted on a general system, for house and court, as well as main 
 drainage, the causes of complaint and this grievous loss of time would 
 be removed. The origin of the applications, and the causes of the 
 complaints being removed, the public would have nothing to come to 
 the office for. 
 
 In the case of the drainage of this mews, complained of by Sir 
 George Phillips, it is stated that the expense would be .200; that 
 expense, it is to be presumed, is on the present improved system? 
 Yes, I believe it is; but that is his builder's estimates. 
 
 On practicable arrangements, comprehending more efficient drainage, 
 for what do you consider the works might be executed ? The surveyor 
 and myself believe that the works might be executed on system, and in 
 an improved manner with glazed circular drains, for less than one-half 
 the present amount considerably less; even, however, on ihe present 
 system, if the sewer were executed by the Commission, instead of the 
 private builder, it might be executed for much less than the sum stated. 
 Every builder cannot, be expected to have plant for sewer work. 
 
 We understand that under some of the Courts of Sewers the survey- 
 ors are paid by a commission upon the sums expended for works? I 
 believe that is the case. 
 
 Has not the reduction of the price of sewers in your Commission been 
 very considerable lately; in some cases even to three-fourths or four- 
 fifths ? Yes. 
 
 Then if your surveyor had been paid in that way he would have 
 proposed the reduction of his own income in the same proportion as the 
 works were reduced, for example, from 400 or .500 a- year to .110 ? 
 No doubt. The greater the economy effected, the less the income that 
 would accrue to the surveyor. 
 
 At the lime of the appearance of the cholera in 1832, were there any 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 103 
 
 complaints as to the state of the sewerage ? There were complaints 
 principally from the Central Board of Health. 
 
 Those complaints probably related to the defective drainage of par- 
 ticular districts where cholera was prevalent? Yes ; more particularly 
 West minster and Chelsea, I think. 
 
 In what respects have the condition of those districts been altered? 
 Some two or three lines of sewers have been built; but very few 
 houses are connected with them. The old drains are as bad as ever, 
 and the system of pumping the sullnge water into the gutters at night 
 still continues, especially round Buckingham Palace. There are many 
 in Dan mouth street Westminster, and near Buckingham Palace, who 
 pump out their sewage-water at night into the streets ; indeed, I am 
 told that the basement stories of some of the houses are worse than 
 useless. 
 
 Are cesspools prevalent in your district IT The public are scarcely 
 aware of the fact, that many of the very best portions of the West End 
 are literally honeycombed with cesspools. Many houses have from 
 three to six or seven under them. In some porous neighborhoods the 
 practice is still, when one cesspool is full, to arch it over and dig an- 
 other, to avoid the expense and trouble of removing the soil. It is ex- 
 tremely difficult to persuade builders that they are not necessary ad- 
 juncts to drainage ; and no wonder, as it is only recently that I have 
 been able to do awny with something of the kind at our office in Greek 
 street, which was at times extremely offensive. 
 
 Then, on the whole, there has, in those districts, been very little 
 change? Very little; as a glance at our map of Westminster and 
 Chelsea will testify, where we find street after street without any pub- 
 lic drainage whatever. 
 
 You are conversant with the system of flushing in use in the Hoi- 
 born and Finsbury division, where they flush one hundred miles of 
 sewers regularly : to what extent is the, same system carried out in the 
 Westminster division ? Probably two miles of covered sewer. 
 
 What is the length of sewer within your district? About two hun- 
 dred miles; but a large proportion of the sewers in -our district ought 
 to cleanse themselves without flushing or mechanical means* 
 
 Do they do so? Scarcely any of those built before last year do so 
 thoroughly, except the main lines, which have a good flow of water 
 through (hem. 
 
 The Hon. Frederick Byng, in a pamphlet which he published in re- 
 
104 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 lafion 10 the sanitary condition of his own parish, St. James, West- 
 minster, slates that ihere are constantly two million five hundred thou- 
 sand cubic feel, of decomposing refuse retained in the sewers and drains. 
 Do you helieve the statement to he correct? I do. I know that hefore 
 he published the pamphlet he consulted our surveyor as to its accuracy 
 on these points. 
 
 Do you helieve that if the evil were dealt with systematically, by 
 the application of water, this refuse might he removed, without 
 occasioning that extensive development of the noxious gases that is 
 incident to the common modes of the removal of the refuse by hand 
 labor and cartage? I see several modes in which, chiefly by the ap- 
 plication of water, the refuse might be removed speedily, comparatively 
 innocuously, and more cheaply. 
 
 Do you not consider these sewers in which the decomposing matter 
 remains as noxious as cesspools 1 Yes; I see no difference between 
 them and cesspools, except their shape and position, and the depth of 
 the decomposing matter within them ; indeed the exposed surface is 
 greater, and the annoyance is more public. 
 
 The Commissioners requested you to make some inquiries as to the 
 prices charged by private builders for laying drains into the sewers. 
 Have you done so? I have taken from the books the first cases that 
 occurred in the neighborhood of our office ; and out of a considerable 
 number I have only been able to obtain the following, in consequence 
 of the way in which the drains have been mixed up by the builders 
 with other charges : 
 
 Oxford street, Ml. for drain from house to sewer. 
 " about 10/. for ditto. 
 
 " about 15/. for ditto. 
 
 " 10/. to 121. for ditto. 
 
 Drury-lane,. ..22/. for 2 drains, ditto. 
 u ..91. Is. 3d. for 1 ditto, ditto. 
 
 " ..16/. to bricklayer, and \L Is. paid at the office, besides 
 frontage for the sewer at 10s. per foot. 
 
 Mount street.. 23/. 10s. for drain to sewer. 
 
 Warwick street, 25Z. for drain from sewer through house, exclusive of 
 office charges. 
 
 Tottenham Court road, 16/. Is. for 1 drain from house to sewer. 
 
 " 16/. 16$. for 1 ditto, ditto. 
 
 " 13/. for 1 ditto, ditto. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 105 
 
 Do you know at what rate the contractors of ihe Sewers' office 
 charge for their private drains'? The charges have always heen ex- 
 tremely high ; hut the following prices charged in Berwick street, 
 where the sewer has just been rebuilt, show some improvement in that 
 respect, though they tire slill much too high, viz : 
 
 Berwick street.. ..3/. 17s. for pipe from house to sewer. 
 
 u .. ..3^. 17s. dino (besides time of owner). 
 
 " 21. 15s. ditto. 
 
 " 4/. 10 5 . ditto. 
 
 " ....41. ditto. 
 
 Formerly, these matters never came into my department, but recently 
 I have advised several parties not to pay above half the sum de- 
 manded. 
 
 Have you made any inquiries as to the advantages derived from the 
 sewers when rebuilt? I have taken one case where the sewer was re- 
 built ten years ago, and one quite recent case in the same neighbor- 
 hood. The replies have been very conflicting indeed. In many cases, 
 an evident fear of incurring additional expense prevented a full and 
 explicit statement. There were great complaints of smell in some cases, 
 when the back-door was shut and when the house was closed at night; 
 and generally it would seem that very much remained to be clone, the 
 old drains at the back being left as they were before the sewers were 
 rebuilt; thesysiem had however a decided advantage. In one instance, 
 about four years ago, it appears that, in Wardour street, a man whilst 
 cleaning out a drain was taken suddenly ill, and died in three hours, 
 and that the medical man attributed it to the noxious effects of the 
 work he was engaged in. 
 
 Do you not consider that it is most wasteful to go on driving sewers 
 without provision for the house drainage? It must be so. If earthen- 
 ware pipes, instead of the brick and mortar drains recommended by 
 architects, had been put in. during the progress of the works in Drury 
 lane and Tottenham Court road, &c., under a proper system, the prices 
 above-mentioned would, I believe, have been half-crowns, and in some 
 cases even shillings, instead of pounds. 
 
 No. 13. 
 MR. JOHN PHILLIPS, C. *., Chief Surveyor to the Westminster 
 
 Court of Sewers. 
 You have heard read Mr. Hertslet's evidence. Is it consistent with 
 
106 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 your own observation and experience'? I agree most cordially with all 
 that he has said. 
 
 Will you state shortly the nature of the improvements which you 
 have proposed 1 When were you appointed to your present office ? In 
 March, 1846. For two years previously, I had been clerk of the works 
 on the several districts. 
 
 On what works had you been previously engaged? On a great 
 variety of public engineering and private building works. 
 
 Had you ever been employed on sewer works'? No ; excepting that 
 many years ago I once worked as a bricklayer, in the building of a sewer. 
 
 Were you brought up to the profession of a surveyor? No ; I went 
 to work, when I was eight years old, as a bricklayer. I never had the 
 slightest education. The little I do know, I have taught myself, and 
 that, too, under a succession of trying difficulties. Some few months 
 ago, the members of the Institution of Civil Engineers did me the 
 honor to elect me an associate of that Institution. 
 
 Had you heard, when you were first engaged on these sewer-works, 
 of censures pronounced on the works of the Westminster Sewers' Com- 
 mission? Not a word. 
 
 In what state did you find the works? A reference to the " Book of 
 Informations," kept at the Sewers' office, will show continued entries 
 by me of complaints of improper modes of executing the work; and, 
 considering the uses of sewers, it appeared to me that their form, mode 
 of arrangement, and construction were far different from what a 
 knowledge of their purposes and of the sciences of the statics and hy- 
 draulics would dictate. I thought, and often said, that the science of 
 sewerage in this Commission was a century behind the present age ; 
 and I was greatly surprised that such sewers should be built, seeing 
 that there were many eminent architects, &c., in the Commission. 
 
 Will you give instances of the manner of building them ? The 
 nearly flat bottoms of the sewers, built by private builders, were almost 
 invariably put in without any mortar or cement. The effect of this 
 appeared to me to be that large proportions of the foul drainage, instead 
 of being conducted to the outfalls, and so carrying off the soil, passed 
 through the open joints of the bottoms, and saturated the ground be- 
 neath with the sewage water. The materials sometimes, as also the 
 work generally, were indifferent. The form of sewer then in use was 
 nearly flat- bottomed with upright side walls. 
 
 And spreading footings, was it not ? Yes, it was. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 107 
 
 Have you passed through a great extent of the sewers? Yos ; from 
 time to time, I have passed through very many miles of them, both old 
 and new. 
 
 In what condition did you find the old sewers ? I found that the 
 whole of them had flat bottoms and upright side-walls, with semi- 
 circular crowns. The old sewers are generally about three feet wide, 
 and their height varies from three feet to six feet. The bricks, and 
 the greater part of the moriar, of which they had been btiill, were of 
 very inferior qualify. These sewers are, from tin's cause, mostly in a 
 ruinous condition. They have been repeatedly cleansed at an enor- 
 mous aggregate expenditure. The cleansing of old sewers, and also of 
 new ones, that have a tendency to choke up, appears to me to be only 
 perpetuating a monstrous evil . I apprehend that steps should rather 
 have been taken under a combined, systematic and uniform plan of 
 arrangement and levels, to have rebuilt, or otherwise improved them, 
 instead of removing the soil, and so creating voids to be afterward 
 again and again filled up. Enough money, I should say, has been 
 wasted in this way, and in patching them up, to have rebuilt the 
 greater part of them. The sewers of modern construction, that is to 
 say, t!:ose which have been put in during the last forty years, have 
 slightly curved inverts. 
 
 The old sewers are, of course, situate in the older districts of the 
 Commission? Yes, they are. 
 
 In what state did you find the new or more modern sewers, as 
 regaids their stability? I found that, in very many places, the side 
 walls had bulged in. 
 
 Expensive sewers of this form have been altogether forced in, have 
 they not ? Yes. 
 
 Where? In the Harrow-road, by Westbourne-green, at Notting- 
 hill, and other places. The ground in which they had been erected 
 being a slippery clay, and such a form of sewer being least calculated 
 to resist side pressure. 
 
 Do you concur with the late Mr. Butler Williams, in his explana- 
 tions of the defects of t|iis form of sewer ? -Yes ; I do most fully. 
 
 Is not the comparative expense of this upright-sided sewer one-third Ifj 
 greater than that of a sewer of the same capacity, but of the egg- I i 
 shape ? Yes. 
 
 In other words, three streets of the same length might have been 
 sewered at the same expense that two were, under this mode of con- 
 
108 
 
 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 struction ? Yes ; and with the same fall, less deposits would have 
 accumulated. 
 
 In what state did you find the sewers, in regard to cleansing- ? I 
 had observed, in passing through them, that a large number of them 
 had a tendency to choke up, inasmuch as not only was the flat ness of 
 the bottom unfavorable to the free flovv 9 but there was the escape of 
 drainage from passing through the open joints of the bottoms, as I 
 have described. I will presently submit a copy of a Report made by 
 me at the time I was clerk of the works. That Report relates only to 
 the district on which I was then engaged. The remaining districts 
 were in precisely the same, or I may say a worse state, as the sewers I 
 referred to were, many of them, comparatively new. 
 
 How do you know that the state of the other districts was as bad, or 
 worse ? Because I had previously been into the sewers. After the 
 Report was read, the court ordered me to furnish particulars, when I 
 delivered in a list of about one hundred and thirty streets in my dis- 
 trict only; and, with that list, sketches of the manner in which the 
 refuse had accumulated. I submit a copy of the sketches with the 
 addition of the position of the house-drains. 
 
 It had previously been a matter of routine for years, as can be seen by 
 reference to the " Book of Informations," that the clerks of the works 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 109 
 
 had entered monthly, that they had inspected the whole of the sewers 
 in their respective districts, and had found no matters on which to re- 
 port other than had been inserted in that book. I had followed the 
 usual course for several months, but as I proceeded with my inspec- 
 tions of the sewers I began to perceive that I was signing my name to 
 a deliberate falsehood. I, therefore, on the 3d of Ociober, 1845, wrote 
 the following entry in the " Book of Informations :" 
 
 " SEWERS' OFFICE FOR WESTMINSTER, &c. ) 
 
 " No. 1 GREEK STREET, SOHO SQUARE, > 
 
 " 3d October, 1845. ) 
 
 " In obedience to the order of Court, (as expressed in By-law No. 60) 
 namely, ' that each clerk of the works do endeavor to obtain every 
 information on the slate of the sewers within the district placed under 
 his superintendence, 5 and ' that in die course of every month he in- 
 spect the whole of his district and report his having so done, together 
 with his remarks and observations in (he Book'of Informations, 'n ad- 
 dition to such erilries as have been usually tnade therein ;' therefore, I 
 beg most respectfully to state that there are a vast number of sewers 
 under my superintendence that are similar to elongated cesspools; 
 that is, they retain nearly all ihe sewage matter that is discharged into 
 them, instead of affording efficient means for speedily carrying it off; 
 and the stench and effluvia evolved from the decomposing filth thus 
 accumulated escapes through the untrapped gullies and drains, and 
 contaminates (he surrounding atmosphere with its nauseous and dele- 
 terious gases, to the great injury of the health of the public; conse- 
 quently, they should not only be cleansed forthwith, but some ready 
 and effectual means should be adopted, in order to prevent the matter 
 discharged into them afterward from becoming deposited upon their 
 
 bottoms. 
 
 (Signed) " JOHN PHILLIPS, 
 
 Clerk of the Works." 
 
 I asked the other clerks of the works to sign that Report with me ; but 
 they refused, though they did not, nor could they, deny the truth of 
 what I had written. But I believe they abstained principally from 
 fear. 
 
 Fear ! of whom 1 Of some of the most active of the Commissioners. 
 
 Of some who are now Commissioners'? Yes; particularly of one 
 individual, from whom I then experienced, and have continued to ex- 
 perience, much bitterness of feeling and opposition ever since I made 
 that entry. 
 
110 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 'TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Yon were, however, afterward, elected surveyor ? Yes, I was. 
 Mr. John Leslie, a Commissioner, who was a stranger to me previous 
 to my engagement on (he sewer works, without any solicitation on my 
 part, proposed me as surveyor; and, after much opposition, I was 
 elected by nineteen votes against seventeen. The attempts that were 
 made to crush me, and to prevent me from rising in the world, were 
 extremely galling. A short time since I was asked, in open Court, by 
 the Commissioner I have already alluded to, if I knew what a sewer 
 was. 
 
 Did the opposition subside with your appointment? Oh, no. It 
 was at first very virulent ; it has lately somewhat subsided, but still 
 there is a wearing opposition under which it is extremely difficult for 
 an officer to act who really wishes to remedy the existing evils ; at least, 
 under a body where the parlies for and against improvement are so 
 close thai a majority giving cordial support can but seldom be relied 
 upon. I have several times expressed to the chief clerk my disposition 
 to resign my appointment, but he has always endeavored to give me 
 confidence in the public support to improvements, and of living in 
 hopes of seeing better days, as it was impossible that tho present state 
 of things could last but for a short time. 
 
 Have you, in passing along the sewers, ascertained which way the 
 currents of air were flowing, either into or out of the sewers? In going 
 along the sewers, I have been always anxious to ascertain that fact. 
 The light which I had in my hand I have placed immediately by the 
 side of, and into the house-drains, and I found almost invariably the 
 flare carried into the mouths of the drains, so that there must have 
 been direct currents from the sewers through the house-drains, and so 
 into and through the houses themselves. I rarely met with any in- 
 stances where there was not a current from the sewer into the house- 
 drain, and also from the sewer through a large number of the gully 
 drains into the streets. Of course some gullies have a down draught. 
 
 Then it is to be presumed that your experience justifies the general 
 description given of the existing sewers in the Sanitary Report of 1842, 
 as retorts with necks carried into the houses for the conveyance of the 
 gases there? Yes, unfortunately, such I have found to be the case. 
 The sewers are, in a very great degree, ventilated by the house-drains, 
 which are badly trapped. It was in consequence of finding that to be 
 the fact, by repeated observations and experiments in the sewers, that I 
 was induced to lay before the Court their real and absolute state, in 
 order that so grievous an evil might be remedied without delay. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. Ill 
 
 What was done upon your representations'? I cannot say that any 
 steps were taken to remedy the defects ; but I can say that it was con- 
 sidered that I was too bold, and that I said too much. 
 
 Are not the gases in the sewers at times in such a state of partial 
 dilution that they may escape into the houses without any very dis- 
 agreeable smell being observed by the inmates'? In some degree, pro- 
 bably, that may be so. The air from a sewer is any thing but agree- 
 able, however much it may be diluted with fresh air, and people who 
 are used to it do not feel or complain of its disagreeable effects so much 
 as those who are not used to it. The fact is, that very much of the 
 filth does not find its way into the sewers as fast as it is produced, hut 
 lies decomposing in the large and flat house-drains and in the cesspools 
 for days, indeed I may say for weeks and months together, so that the 
 most virulent portion of the gases pass off before the filth gets into the 
 sewers. 
 
 But still the most virulent portion of the gases of which you have 
 spoken, in escaping from the drains and cesspools, infect the atmos- 
 phere of the houses ? Yes, that is the case. Wherever there are cess- 
 pools and defective drains, the atmosphere of the houses is being con- 
 stantly tainted with deleterious gases. Persons going in a morning 
 from the fresh air into defectively-drained houses, or into drained 
 houses where there is a current of air from the sewer into the house, 
 cannot help feeling something disagreeable in the state of the air. 
 When the houses are closed for the night, the indrafts of foul air from 
 the sewers, drains and cesspools increase, and in this atmosphere people 
 sleep, inhaling disease and death. 
 
 Are the chief clerk and yourself on good terms? Yes, we have 
 always been so- In mere matters of detail we have thought differ- 
 ently. I'never let personal feelings for any one interfere wilh my 
 public duty. But with regard to Mr. Hertslet, he is a gentleman for 
 whom I entertain the highest respect; and I think the public very for- 
 tunate in having such a straight-forward, able, and efficient officer, as, 
 from daily experience of nearly four years, I have ever found him 
 to be. 
 
 From the return of attendances at the Court, and of the occupations 
 of the Commissioners, it appears that the numbers attending consist of 
 
112 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 non-professional persons, and of professional persons and tradesmen ; 
 the professional being architects and attorneys, and the trading persons 
 builders and traders connecied with building works. Which class of 
 Commissioners have been most strongly supporters of improvement ? 
 Certainly not the architects, nor the attorneys connected with them. 
 In saying that, I wish of course to make exceptions. Among large 
 bodies there will always be found those who think and act for them- 
 selves without being biassed by the acts and opinions of others. 
 
 In what way do you find the Commissioners of the class you speak 
 of interfere? In the first place, in the ordinary daily business, by 
 personal solicitations to go out of the usual course to serve particular 
 friends who are in trade or otherwise connected. Thus I have received 
 notes from Commissioners, asking me to oblige them by employing 
 persons ; and these notes bear, of course, but a small proportion to the 
 number of verbal solicitations. The persons recommended may be 
 very proper persons ; but supposing they are not so, and they are re- 
 fused, k is natural to expect displeasure from those Commissioners. 
 Then again, one is exposed to requests in respect to works in which 
 Commissioners or their friends are directly or indirectly engaged. The 
 requests may appear harmless, but taking the whole together, they have 
 a tendency to prevent the officers doing their duty discreetly. Clerks 
 of the works have expressed to me the same sentiments. I wish to 
 declare, as a public officer, that as the Commission is now constituted, 
 I and the other officers have found it, and do still find it, impossible 
 that we should do our duty as we ought to do. 
 
 Do you find the class of Commissioners connected with building 
 operations in the district favorable to economical works? Decidedly 
 the contrary. When I propose works of improvements which would 
 save expense, I know from what side opposition will come. 
 
 What improvements have you proposed but state in the first place 
 what you consider to be the best form for a sewer ? I beg leave to state 
 my reasons for recommending the egg-shaped form of sewer; solidity 
 of execuiion in construction, economy of materials and labor, com- 
 bined with strength to bear the lateral and vertical pressures of the 
 ground, and efficiency in affording the best channel for quickly con- 
 veying away the sewage, are the essential requisites for a sewer. The 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 113 
 
 circle affords the most capacious area of all plnne figures having 1 the 
 same circumference, and conversely its circumference is less than any 
 other figure of die same capacity. It, therefore, supplies the greatest 
 capacity for receiving the water, will) ihe smallest friciional surface, 
 arid the least consumption of materials. As regards strength : when 
 the pressure from the ground around a circle is the same, it is equally 
 distributed throughout the entire thickness composing the arch ; for, as 
 the extradosal length is greater than the intradosai length, the arch 
 is necessarily made up of a series of wedges all pointing to the centre 
 of the circle ; hence the circular form prevents the earth outside of it 
 from forcing it in, and from disturbing it, provided the pressure be 
 equal, while upright walls in the same circumstances would most 
 probably be unable to withstand the pressure. The removal of sewage, 
 and prevention of deposit of matter in sewers are entirely dependent 
 on the quantity and velocity of the water ruqning through them. In 
 order therefore to keep them well washed out and cleansed, the utmost 
 scouring force should be imparted to the streams. A semi-circular, or 
 a still narrower and deeper-curved channel of a semi elliptical or cate- 
 narian form, concentrates the flow on a small area of friction, heaps it 
 up, and so increases its velocity, and makes it more powerful in lifting, 
 holding in suspension, and carrying away all matters which may find 
 their way into the sewers, than a wide and flat channel. A sewer, 
 therefore, having an arched crown, curved side walls, and a narrow 
 and deeply-curved bottom, which, combined together, give the shape 
 of an egg with the small end placed downwards, is, in my opinion, 
 the best and most efficient form for all branch sewers. It would appear, 
 however, from what has been stated, that the circle, from having a 
 more capacious area and less rubbing surface than any other figure, is 
 the best shape for all sewers. But this is not the case; for although 
 the surface of contact of the egg-shnped sewer is somewhat greater 
 than a circle of the same area, yet by contracting the channel, and so 
 raising the height of the stream, the ratio of velocity and consequent 
 power to scour is increased thereby, as will be evident on experiment 
 being made. It is the prerogative of the egg-shaped sewer, therefore, 
 to combine in its form, capacity, economy, strength, and efficiency* 
 It is also the best form for house-drains. As however the principal 
 main lines have always a good flow of water in them, I would make 
 them circular. 
 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What is the shape of the sewers now in use by your Court? The 
 egg-shnpe wiih the narrow end placed downward. I beg to submit 
 this drawing, showing the forms and other details as proposed by me. 
 
 SEWERS OF WESTMINSTER, AND PART OF MIDDLESEX. 
 
 No. 1. 
 
 No. 2. 
 
 No. 3. 
 
 'ine da.ker portions of the Inverts to be worked in cement. 
 
 Fig. 1. 
 
 Plan of drain and sewer 
 through H H. 
 
 Plan showing the mode of forming the junction 
 of a side sewer with a leading one. 
 
 Section on E E, Fig. 1. 
 
 Section showing the mode of 
 connecting drain with sewer. 
 
 Sect'nonFF,Fig. 2. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Fig. 2. 
 
 115 
 
 Plan at top of flaps 
 ami footway. 
 
 Plan showing the mode of forming the junctions of two side sewers Section <m H R 
 with a leading one. 
 
 Section on CC. 
 
 Section on A A. 
 
 Plan. 
 
 The number of steps determinable by the depth of the sewer and its distance 
 from the footway. 
 
 Fig. 3. 
 
 Plan showing the mode of forming the junctions of two side Section on D b, Fig. 1 ; 
 
 sewers where a straight one terminates. and C C, Fig. 3. 
 
 When did these sewers come into operation by your Court ? About 
 two years ago. 
 
 By whom were they inUoducgd 1 By Mr. John Leslie, a Commis- 
 sioner. At that time the Court' wi&ti$jfcussing the propriety of making 
 
 ' 
 
116 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 some alteration in the form of sewer then in use ; and having given 
 the subject much consideration, I drew out three sizes of sewers, all of 
 the egg-shape, with the small end down, differing in some respects, 
 though similar in principle, to those introduced by Mr. Roe, the sur- 
 veyor to the Holhorn and Finsbury Commission, and I sent the draw- 
 ing, accompanied by a respectful letter, to the Court for consideration. 
 The then chairman, however, would not receive nny proposal for im- 
 provements from a person in the position of a clerk of the works, as I 
 then was, and he ordered the drawing and the letter to he handed 
 back to me. Mr. Leslie shortly after asked me to give him the draw- 
 ing, which I did. He then, without my knowledge, had the drawing 
 lithographed, and sent copies of it to the eminent building firms of 
 Messrs. Thomas Cubitt, Grissell and Peto, J. and C. Rigby, William 
 Herbert, Elger and Kelk, and H. Beers, all of whom certified that the 
 proposed forms were durable, efficient, and economical. Major Gene- 
 ral Pasley highly approved of them ; and Captain Denison, R. E., 
 stated that they were the best forms he had ever seen. At a subse- 
 quent Conn, Mr. Leslie proposed that my form of sewer should be 
 adopted, which, after severe struggles, he succeeded in carrying. 
 
 Of what sizes and thicknesses are your sewers'? They are of three 
 sizes, viz. No. 1, three feet wide by four feet nine inches high ; No. 
 2, two feet six inches wide by four feet high ; and No. 3, two feet wide 
 by three feet three inches high, all in the clear. The thickness of each 
 is one brick, or nine inches. 
 
 What materials do you use in their construction ? The best hard 
 well-burnt stock bricks, blue lias and Dorking limes, Roman cement, 
 and clean sharp Thames sand. Blue lias lime is used by the Court, 
 and Dorking lime by private builders. 
 
 Why should there be any difference in this respect 1 Is the blue lias 
 lime more expensive? There certainly ought not to beany difference, 
 in my opinion. If blue lias lime mortar be the best and most proper 
 mortar to be used in the building of sewers by the Court, then, of 
 course, private builders should use it also. Here I wish to present an 
 example of the sort of interference to which I have been subjected in 
 the execution of work. 1 proposed to the Court, in May, 1846, that 
 blue lias lime should be used by private builders as well as by the 
 Court ; but my proposal wns negatived. The price of the blue lias lime 
 was then more expensive, about 2d. or 3d. per bushel. The difference 
 now is not so much, about Id. or IJcL a bushel. 
 
 By what class of Commissioners was the Court led to adopt the infe- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 117 
 
 rior material? By the architects. It is the liability to vexatious inter* 
 ference in matters of detail, like this which causes a great deal of the 
 annoyance under a commission constituted as the present is. 
 
 What lime makes the most durable and the strongest mortar 7 Blue 
 lias lime mixed with clean water, and twice its measure of clean sharp 
 river sand makes by far the best and most durable, and the strongest 
 mortar for hydraulic purposes. Blue lias lime contains a large propor- 
 tion of clay in combination with it. It is the clay which imparts to 
 the mortar the peculiar property of setting and hardening under water. 
 What is called Dorking lime has a much less proportion of clay in its 
 composition, hence it does not make nearly so good a mortar as blue 
 lias lime for hydraulic works. 
 
 As another example of the vexatious interferences to which any new 
 plan is exposed, under the existing constitution of the Court, to the 
 injury of the public, and the annoyance of the officer, I may mention 
 that I found that the old sewers had, up to the last four or five years, 
 been joined at right angles. For some time preceding my appointment 
 they were joined by "canis" thus : 
 
 The plan I proposed, where two branch sewers fell into the main, 
 was of curved junctions, as 'shown by this sketch : 
 
 8 
 
118 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The advantages I anticipated would follow from the use of this plan, 
 were simplicity and economy in execution, gain in the force and free- 
 dom of (he sweep of waters, and the prevention of deposit. My plan 
 was objected to by a former chairman of the Court, who proposed the 
 following as an amendment, and carried it : 
 
 Knowing that the plan which I had proposed was really the cheapest, 
 strongest, and most practicable, I deferred making any alteraiion in 
 the engraved plate until a peremptory order for (he purpose should be 
 issued by (he Court. This order was made peremptory at the instance 
 of the same Commissioner. I then reported (o the Court the objections 
 to his plan, which were, that it was unscientific ; contrary (o the first 
 principles of hydraulics, inasmuch as two deflections of the stream 
 were caused and consequently two deposits of silt; that it was weak 
 and expensive in construction ; and that it necessitated, in narrow 
 streets, the building of the branch sewer on the upper side of (he street 
 to the left, and on the lower side of the street to the right, instead of 
 in the middle of (he streets, its natural and proper position. At the 
 same time I handed into the Court a letter which I had received from 
 Mr. Roe, the surveyor of the Holborn and Finsbury sewers, supporting 
 my view of the case. 
 
 Had not such mode of forming (wo opposite junctions been pre- 
 viously in use in the Holborn and Finsbury divisions of sewers? Yes, 
 they had ; but I was not aware of (he fact when I proposed the plan. 
 The junctions were such as I apprehend any engineer of ordinary 
 ability must have proposed. 
 
 What was the event in relation to the plan? The late chairman's 
 plan was supported by his brother and another architect and district 
 surveyor, and was carried by one vole. My plan was ordered to be 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 obliterated from the engraved plate and his to be substituted in its 
 place. 
 
 How does the plan work in practice? Almost in the first instance 
 which occurred it was found impracticable lo cany out the plan as 
 altered. I reported this to the Court, and in that instance the amended 
 plan was abandoned. It still, however, remains a standing order. 
 
 What is the comparative expense incurred by the plan 1 In one 
 instance where the amended plan has been adopted, in Wells street, 
 Marylebone, the contractor informed me that it has cost him ,84, 
 whereas had my plan been used instead, he told me that it would have 
 cost him only ,49. I should think, however, the average increased 
 expense to the public would be about 40 per cent., and the effect, 
 according to all experience, prejudicial. All practical men who saw 
 the work expressed their opinion that jt was highly unscientific and 
 prejudicial. I must say, that I was absolutely ashamed to see the work 
 being done in such a manner. All power to do things properly, and 
 according to the several circumstances which present themselves, is taken 
 from me, or rather has never been given to me. One is obliged to act 
 by rules which, in themselves, are often found to be inapplicable. The 
 case I have just stated gives an illustration of the kind of vexation to 
 which I have been subjected. If it would not occupy too much time, 
 I could bring forward other instances. 
 
 What length of the egg-shaped sewer, of your form, has been built 
 by the Court and by private builders during the last year? Forty-one 
 thousand six hundred and fifty-seven feet. 
 
 What has been the saving of expense in that one year? At least 
 13,000. As an instance of the saving of expense in the building of 
 sewers of my form, I may state that a private builder has very recently 
 built in our district six thousand feet of second class sewer, at 10s. 6d. 
 per foot run, and one thousand five hundred feet of third cla?s sewer 
 at 8s. lOd. per foot run, which, together, amount to 3,812 10s. The 
 cost of the two lengths, that is seven thousand five hundred feet, if 
 built of the old second-sized form, with upright sides, would have been 
 about 15s. per foot, or, for the entire length, .5,625 ; so that to this 
 person alone a saving has been effected of .1,812 and 10s., and he has 
 a complete system of sewerage on his estate which he would not have 
 had on the old system. 
 
 What class of Commissioners opposed the adoption of your improved 
 form ? Mostly architects and professional persons connected with 
 building matters. 
 
120 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What objects may architects and tradesmen serve by maintaining 
 uneconomical works? If I may say so, without intending the least 
 disrespect to individuals, I should say that the architect is connected 
 with and dependent upon the builder, just in the same way as amongst 
 the inferior members of the medical profession, the physician is de- 
 pendent upon the apothecary who supplies-medicines and recommends 
 physicians. 
 
 Can a person, in a profession so connected as an architect in private 
 practice, (a practice habituated to emoluments dependent on the extent 
 of expenditure,) or persons in trade as builders; or as suppliers of ma- 
 terials connected with architects or with contractors, be fairly accepted 
 as indifferent and substantial persons, or as impartial and substantial 
 persons, within the meaning of the law of sewers? I should think 
 not. 
 
 From your statement it appears that a considerable saving of expense 
 has already been effected in the building of sewers, and that the work- 
 ing has been greatly improved. Are you confident that you have ar- 
 rived at the limits of reduction in respect to the size and economy of 
 sewers? By no means. 1 have given this subject much considera- 
 tion, and I am convinced, that if control be obtainable over a proper 
 supply of water, the present mode of constructing sewers might be 
 wholly superseded by the adoption of a far more efficient and econo- 
 mical system. Even with the improvements that have been already 
 made in I heir form, arrangement, and construction, very many of the 
 sewers built for some time past are not perfect through not having a 
 proper supply of water. Indeed, it is utterly hopeless to expect that 
 house drains and sewers can keep themselves, or be kept clean, and 
 in perfect condition, without having, at the same time, control over a 
 supply of wa'er. In passing through the sewers, deposit appeared to 
 me to be the necessary consequences of one or all of the following 
 causes namely, too little fall ; inefficiency in the supply of water, or de- 
 ficiency in the force of the currents : loo large a capacity of the sewers, 
 or the improper form of their bottoms, they being flat and wide : abrupt 
 angles which produced eddies in the currents; and heavy substances 
 which had either been thrown or had found their way into the sewers. 
 In dry weather nearly all the water running along the sewers is due to 
 the supply from the different water companies. The quantity clue 
 from springs or land drainage is very little. With drains and sewers 
 the whole tilth of a town is dependent for its removal on the supply of 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 121 
 
 water. If that supply be deficient, or fall short of its proper quantity, 
 and so of the necessary power to lift and carry away the filth, it must 
 of course deposit and accumulate in the drains and sewers. A pro- 
 portional supply and force of water is therefore essentially necessary to 
 insure its entire removal. A considerable proportion of the supply is 
 lost in various ways for cleansing and scouring purposes. The more 
 abundant the supply, and (he better the drains and sewers are propor- 
 tioned thereto as to size, form, and fall, the more rapid will be the re- 
 moval of the fihh, and the less liability will there be to deposit. Indeed, 
 I feel sure that by a systematic arrangement of the house-drains and 
 the sewers, and application of a proper quantity of water, no deposit 
 will take, place. For the short collateral branches of the sewers in 
 streets, courts, &c., the smaller they are, (provided they be large 
 enough to receive and carry off storm waters in addition to the ordi- 
 nary run,) the less chance will there be for them to choke up. In the 
 course of my experience I have examined hundreds of drains, and I 
 have always found small drains and sewers which had a moderate fall, 
 and any thing like a good supply of water, quite clean and perfect in 
 that respect. I anticipate, indeed I confidently entertain an opinion, 
 that with a combination of the water supply and a tubular system of 
 sewerage and house-drainage, the whole of the annoyance now ex- 
 perienced by the public from defective drains and sewers, may be made 
 to cease. The greater part of the duties of the officers of sewers is 
 taken up by attending to complaints of the stoppage of drains and 
 sewers, and in superintending the removal of the soil. Now, with 
 such a svstem of sewerage and house-drainage as 1 recommend, nearly 
 the whole of the duties in this respect will cease. I apprehend that it 
 would be far better for a staff of officers to be constantly engaged in 
 making examinations in order to prevent filth from depositing and ac- 
 cumulating, than to wait for it to collect, and so annoy the public with 
 its noxious emanations, perhaps for weeks and months, before com- 
 plaint is made and steps are taken to remove the evil. The public, 
 who pay rates for paving, sewerage, water and lighting, have a right 
 to expect that their health and comfort are cared for, that the money 
 is expended frugally, and that both the works and the management 
 are carried on in a scientific and systematic manner. To this end, 
 therefore, I am of opinion that the supply of water and of gas, the 
 sewerage, and the paving, of the entire metropolis, should be under 
 the direction and control of one administrative Board of Health, and 
 
122 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 that the metropolis should then be divided into districts, with a proper 
 staff of officers on each district, which officers should receive their in- 
 structions from, and be responsible to that body ; and that one rate 
 should be levied for the whole of these purposes on the entire property 
 of the metropolis. I have no hesitation in saying that a saving would 
 thus be effected greatly exceeding one-half of the present expenditure. 
 This plan is a comprehensive one certainly ; but I see no practical dif- 
 ficulty in the way of its realization, and of its being conducted with 
 harmony, economy, and efficiency, 
 
 Have you seen sewers keep themselves clean, where constant cur- 
 rents have been running in them 1- Yes; I have. I am of opinion, 
 that if constant currents of water be carried through the drains and 
 sewers, though the currents may be small, yet provided they be con- 
 stant and concentrated on very narrow and smooth bottoms, they will 
 keep the sewers clean. "Where the supply is intermittent, the matter 
 discharged from the house-drains, meeting with no current, accumu- 
 lates. Hence it is necessary to have the sewers large enough for men 
 to pass through them with tackle, shovels, wheel-barrows, and pails, 
 to remove these accumulations, which the intermittent supply of water 
 is not strong enough to remove. In order to prevent deposit in drains 
 and sewers, there must be a certain degree of velocity and force given 
 to each current, so as to produce agitation equal to, or rather greater 
 than the vis inertia, or weight, mass, figure, and superficies, of the 
 sand, silt, mud, and other substances, to be lifted, and kept always 
 moving, or united and incorporated with the running water, added to 
 the friction of the bottom and sides of the channel. The chance of 
 an\ r sewer keeping itself clean is dependent on four things namely, 
 its capacity, its form, ils fall, and the quantity and force of the water 
 running through it. It is only from observation and experience, and 
 the application of rules deduced therefrom, to the proportioning the 
 capacity, the form, and the fall, as also the quantity and force of water 
 requisite to prevent deposit, that we can hope to arrive at perfection in 
 sewerage. From observation and experiment, I find that it requires 
 a constant velocity of current to be running through the sewers equal 
 to about two and a-half feet per second, or one three quarter mile per 
 hour, to prevent the soil from depositing within them. 
 
 Have you made use of flushing in the cleansing of the sewers in 
 your district? Yes, I have partially. I have ordered the lighter and 
 more fluid portion of the soil to be eluted and washed away in the 
 streams, and the heavier matter, such as stones, rubbish, sand, &c., 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. '123 
 
 to be lifted to the surface and carted away. I knew that if these sub- 
 stances were washed away in the sewers in the western division, they 
 would deposit along the channel of the main sewer between Bucking- 
 ham Palace and the river, and there have to be lifted or cast out. 
 
 Would you think it necessary to make use of flushing for a tubular 
 system of sewerage with constant supplies of water? I should be 
 obliged to do so only in places where I could not get sufficient fall for 
 the currents to keep the sewers clean. In such situations the sewers 
 would require to be made somewhat larger than where they keep 
 themselves clean, as the flow would be more sluggish. 
 
 Have you paid attention to the flow of water in the sewers? Yes, I 
 have. There is less water running in the sewers on Sundays than on 
 other days of the week ; and most on Saturdays. The height of the 
 flow every day goes on increasing from 1 an early hour in the morning 
 until about noon, when it is highest, it then gradually subsides to its 
 lowest level. The period of the greatest flow every day is between 
 11 A. M. and 1 p. M. 
 
 What is the least fall that should be given to a sewer ? The fall of 
 sewers should be proportioned to the quantity of water that is to pass 
 through them. For, with the same fall, the greater the body of water 
 the greater will be the velocity and scour ; and conversely, the less the 
 body of water the less will be the velocity and scour. Again, a large 
 body of water will, with a little fall, run with the same velocity as a 
 small quantity will with a great fall. Hence the recipient of many 
 branch sewers may have less fall than the branches themselves. A 
 fall of a quarter of an inch in ten feet has been considered the least 
 fail that should be given to branch and summit-level sewers; but this 
 fall is not enough to keep the sewers clean. No Jjj such sewers should, 
 in my opinion, have less fall than half an inch in ten feet. In some 
 districts it is found impossible to get even so much foil as a quarter of 
 an inch in ten feet. In districts where proper fall cannot be obtained 
 it is necessary to resort to flushing to keep the sewers free of deposit 
 and clean. When a mainstream receives a branch stream, the united 
 body of water causes the height of the main stream to increase, conse- 
 quently, the surface rises somewhat higher than the surface of the 
 divided streams ; hence the water flows back, producing deposits of 
 heavy substances about the junctions, which deposits draw back and 
 impede the flow of the two streams. Now, in order to remedy this 
 evil, the bottonvbf the main sewer, immediately below the junctions 
 should be made some inches deeper tha.a the bottoms above the June- 
 
124 
 
 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 tions. By this mode of forming' the bottoms, the surface of the main 
 and branch streams will have a uniform inclination, and the accele- 
 ration of this fall will prevent regurgitation and deposit, and the united 
 streams will flow onwards with increased speed. In order to determine 
 the depth below the junctions, it is necessary to calculate what height 
 the body of water falling- from the branches will increase the stream in 
 the main. The capacity of the united stream is very much less than 
 the sum of the capacities of the divided streams, and the velocity in 
 the former is considerably greater than in either of the latter. The 
 ratio of increase of velocity follows the ratio of decrease of capacity. 
 It follows, therefore, that a gradually accelerating velocity takes place 
 immediately below the confluence of the sewers throughout the rami- 
 fied system from their sources to their outfalls, and such I have found 
 to be the case. 
 
 What size of ordinary or constant current that is to say, a current 
 independent of rain, would suffice to keep cleansed an ordinary-sized 
 sewer? I take my data from practical experience and observation 
 rather than from theory or calculation. In passing through the sewers, 
 I have observed that the currents of water running through very many 
 of the branch and collateral sewers were mere dribbles, and that from 
 being diffused over a large flat surface they were not of sufficient 
 strength to remove the soil. Looking at these currents, and comparing 
 them with the extraordinary sizes of the sewers, I should say such 
 currents might be passed through pipes, varying from three to nine 
 inches in diameter. In a large number of the sewers, the currents 
 have cut narrow and deep channels through the soil, and by so doing, 
 it appeared to me that nature was endeavoring to correct the faults of 
 art. I think it would be desirable to take a lesson from nature in this 
 respect, and form the bottoms of all the sewers which have a tendency 
 to choke up in accordance with the following sketch : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 125 
 
 It has sometimes been the practice to cut similar channels through 
 the soil for the drainage to run through, and they have acted for a time 
 very well indeed, so well as to give me entire confidence in the work- 
 ing of narrow and reduced sizes of sewers, I propose to bed channel 
 tiles, of various diameters, along the bottoms of the sewers, and fill 
 in behind them with concrete. I am satisfied that if the currents could 
 be doubled in quantity, concentrated on smaller sized channels similar 
 in form to the above sketch, and kept regularly in action, most of the 
 sewers would keep themselves clean by this means. Egg-shaped sew- 
 ers, varying in capacity according to the area, the number of houses 
 to be drained, and the quantity of water to be discharged, from nine 
 inches wide by one foot three inches high, to one foot six inches wide 
 by two feet six inches high, would suffice for sewers on summit levels, 
 and also for branch or collateral sewers which had to receive the drain- 
 age of from one to twelve or more ordinary-sized streets. Of course 
 the secondary mains which would have to carry off the water from 
 these branch or collateral sewers, as well as the principal main lines 
 into which the secondary ones would discharge themselves, must be 
 larger in proportion ; but under a proper arrangement, fewer principal 
 lines would be required. 
 
 Then, instead of discharging a large body of water uselessly, as to 
 any power of sweep, you would, under the system of constant and 
 concentrated supplies and smaller sewers, economize the water by using 
 it to scour several small sewers instead of one large one? Yes, I 
 would. For this reason I would prefer having more outlets, or at least 
 more catchwater sewers, instead of discharging all the drainage by one 
 large main sewer throughout, although, at or near the outlet, I might 
 probably be obliged to lead the whole of the water into one main line ; 
 but I should not like to part with it into a main line until I had made 
 it serviceable in sweeping as many sewers as possible. The sewers 
 themselves as they progress toward the outlets, would of course re- 
 quire to be of larger capacity. Running water is the cheapest, best, 
 and most effectual means for conveying away the filth and refuse of 
 a town. To economize the power of the water, so as to make it avail- 
 able in sweeping the filth before it, as fast as produced, and in keeping 
 the sewers thoroughly clean by the force of gravitation of the water 
 alone, and without any mechanical assistance whatever, is obviously 
 of the greatest importance. It is with this view, and upon this prin- 
 ciple, all sewers should be arranged. I would observe, therefore, that 
 
126 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 as the kerping of all sewers thoroughly washed out is necessarily de- 
 pendent upon an abundant supply of water, the principle which I have 
 thought it best to follow for that purpose is tie and connect the whole 
 of the sewers together upon a uniform system of levels, so as to use the 
 water running along sewers on high levels, for washing out those on 
 low levels For this purpose, as will be seen by these plans : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 127 
 
 I would connect the heads of adjoining sewers below with the superior 
 sewers above them, and arrange the connections so that, as I he currents 
 of water running along the latler sewers arrive opposite the connec- 
 tions, they may divide and subdivide themselves by the ridges or 
 groynes formed by the meeting of the inverts. By this means the 
 water would traverse from one sewer lo another, and so keep up a per- 
 petual flow throughout the entire system. There can be no doubt that 
 with much smaller sewers than those now in use, and a more regular 
 and abundant supply of water, the sewers would, by this system of ar- 
 ranging them and economizing the currents, keep themselves thorough- 
 ly clean. AH head sewers, from want of backwater, have a tendency 
 to choke up, and their ventilation is also very bad, consequently 
 there should be as few of them as possible. The general surface of 
 the metropolis, on the north side of tile Thames, is most admirably 
 situated for being efficiently drained, as the ground continues to rise 
 with an easy acclivity, from the river to the hills, some miles to the 
 northward. The surface is divided into several natural areas, each of 
 which has its main outfall sewer running through the lowest level of 
 the valley, and discharging into the Thames, and into these main or 
 valley sewers the whole of the sewers on the sides of the declivities 
 discharge themselves. This mode of drainage is a very objectionable 
 one, and should never be resorted to, if it be possible to avoid it. The 
 declivities of all natural areas are generally in two directions, namely, 
 transversely toward the valley line, and longitudinally toward the 
 outfall. Now, If attention be paid to the levels, and the sewers on the 
 sides of the declivities be judiciously arranged, a perpetual circulation 
 of water may be kept flowing throughout the whole of them, from 
 the sewer on the summit at the head of the natural area to the outfall 
 in the river ; that is to say, a system of collateral or concentric 
 sewers should rise one above another from the valley line to the ridge 
 or water shed line of the district ; each collateral sewer skirting the 
 entire area, and discharging itself into the river by a separate outlet, or 
 in the manner previously referred to. It will be seen that, when the 
 sewers running transversely are connected at their upper and lower 
 ends on the same levels with those running longitudinally, a facility is 
 afforded for the drainage to circulate from the highest sewer to the one 
 immediately below, from this to the one next lowest, and so on 
 throughout. 
 Would you make the sizes of all your sewers large enough for a man 
 
128 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 to pass through them ? I should he obliged to do so under the present 
 regulations of an intermittent supply of water; but if I had the control 
 of a proper supply of water, as well as of the sewers, I could reduce 
 the sizes of the sewers very considerably, because I should then be able 
 to arrange them in combination with the water, so as to keep up a 
 coniinuous current, throughout them, and so keep them in proper 
 action . 
 
 Then for the present brick sewers you would substitute tubular 
 sewers? For the branch sewers I would substitute small egg-shaped 
 pipes, provided I could have a control over a supply of water. 
 I beg leave to hand in these sections (see plate, pnge 126) showing 
 graduated forms of branch, secondary and principal main lines of sewers, 
 which I would make use of for the drainage of a district in which the 
 sewers and the water supply were under one and the same authority. 
 
 What would be the economy of the system of the smaller collateral 
 sewers? The cost of the first class upright-sided sewer, three or four 
 years ago, in the .Westminster Commission, was about 22.?. 6d. per foot 
 run. It has already been reduced more than one-third by the use of 
 my forms, and ordinarily costs about 14s. 2d. per foot run ; but I am 
 sure that it could be again reduced to more than one half of the psesent 
 cost, namely, to 7s. per foot run as the average cost of the larger class 
 of branch sewers, including every expense, and the smaller ones would 
 of course be proportionably cheaper still, namely, to 6s. 4d., 5.9. 7^., 
 5s. 3d., 4s. fid., and 45. per foot run. Indeed, after much opposition, 
 I have succeeded in inducing the Court to build nearly half a mile of 
 sewer at Kensington, two feet three inches wide by three feet nine 
 inches high in the clear, and half brick thick, at an average depth of 
 nearly fifteen feet, for a fraction under 7s. per foot run, including all 
 expenses; and I should be much gratified if the Commissioners present 
 would do me the favor to inspect the works which are now in hand. 
 I could not, however, recommend the Court to allow private builders 
 to execute sewers of half brick in thickness. If these low prices are to 
 be generally adopted, the building of all sewers must be by public con- 
 tract, and the work executed under the immediate direction and control 
 of the Commissioners. Much caution is required in the building of 
 sewers in a clayey soil ; otherwise, from the treacherous character of 
 this ground its liability to expand and slip, the sewers may be forced 
 in. The thickness of the sewer should be proportioned to the nature 
 of the ground and the pressure it has to bear ; but its stability is very 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 129 
 
 much dependent on the goodness of the workmanship. A half-brick 
 sewer, under ordinary circumstances, will, if executed well and soundly, 
 the joints made thin, and the sewer worked true to the curve, be quite 
 strong' enough, and would he found to answer every required purpose. 
 The equilibration may be altogether destroyed by a want of uniformity 
 in the working of the curve. The greatest pressure of the ground acts 
 literally from the sides downwards. Much of this pressure may be pre- 
 vented by leaving in the trench from the surface downwards short 
 lengths of .earth, say ten to twenty feet, and about fifty to eighty feet 
 apart, to be tunneled through for the sewer to pass. These benchings, 
 as they are termed, will keep the sides of the trench from sinking and 
 slipping, and so from pressing against the sides of the sewer. 
 
 Why would you not intrust the building of these half-brick sewers 
 to private builders'? Because they execute their work generally in a 
 very careless manner, as they know that when the sewers are once 
 finished the care of them lies with the Commissioners, and any subse- 
 quent reparation falls upon the public, so that they are not interested 
 either in the good quality or stability of their work. 
 
 Taking the case you^ have mentioned of the half-brick sewer at 7.?. 
 per foot run at Kensington, will not the first effect of the adoption of a 
 tubular or pipe system of sewerage with smooth glazed surfaces be to 
 diminish the friction, perhaps even one-third, and so to increase the 
 flow? The smoother the surface the less will be the friction, and con- 
 sequently the greater will be the velocity and discharge ; and the fric- 
 tion in a glazed pipe must be considerably less than in a brick drain, 
 as commonly built. I am not prepared to say that the friction would 
 be diminished so much as one-third ; I think not so much. The smooth- 
 est glass pipes throw off transverse motions which greatly impede the 
 flow. There is a difference in the flow of pure clean water : the latter 
 moves more sluggishly. This is caused by its being thicker and more 
 viscid, from'having matter chemically combined and mechanically 
 suspended in it. 
 
 Supposing then that you have no increase of run of water, would 
 you not, with a tubular system of sewerage, be enabled fo reduce the 
 size of drains and sewers perhaps to nearly one-third, taking into 
 account the effect of increased velocity] As the velocity increases, so 
 does the transverse section of the area occupied by the stream decrease. 
 This is a natural law observable in all moving streams, for we see 
 that in a moving mass of water the discharge is the same, whatever 
 
130 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 form and size the channel may assume, the velocity being greater 
 where the channel is narrow and deep, and less where it is wide, flat, 
 and irregular ; but the exact ratio of decrease of area, from decrease 
 of friction and increase of flow, can only be determined by actual ex- 
 periment and by taking into recount all the attendant circumstances 
 which influence and govern the motion of the stream. 
 
 It is, of course, important for the whole subject of drainage and sew- 
 erage that experiments should be made at once before going further 
 into the arrangement, and construction of drains and sewers/? It is of 
 the utmost importance that it should be so. It is a subject which I 
 have long wished to take up, but have not had time to go thoroughly 
 into. Notwithstanding all the experiments that have been made by 
 mathematicians, and the data and formulae which they have deduced 
 therefrom, we have not, at the present time, sufficient information from 
 which to plan and work with confidence and accuracy in regard to 
 sewerage. The facts that have come under my observation and expe- 
 rience show that theoretical writers on hydrodynamics are, in some 
 degree, in error in supposing that the velocities and discharges of 
 streams vary directly as the greater or less extent of the frictional sur- 
 faces in contact with them. There can be no doubt, however, that the 
 ratio of velocity and discharge is much dependent on the greater or 
 less extent of the surface of contact, but from what I have observed in 
 the sewers, the effect of the variation of velocity and discharge is not 
 wholly caused by friction. The impeding influence of the bottom and 
 sides of the channel to the motion of large bodies of water is very little 
 indeed, and I think the velocity does not depend directly on the extent 
 of rubbing surface, as compared with the volume of water. In propor- 
 tion as the quantity of water increases at each confluence, from the 
 source to the outlet, so does the velocity increase. And I think it will 
 be found, on experiment being made, that the ratio of increase of velo- 
 city is not wholly governed by the extent of frictional surface. This 
 is a point well worth ascertaining. The sole cause of the pressure and 
 motion of a stream is the inclination of its surface^ or the force of gravity. 
 If there be a body of water whose motion has become uniform in any 
 river or water course, whatever form and width the channel may be of ? 
 it is evident that there must be equal discharges at every section in 
 equal periods of time, or else the stream could not go on; and the 
 velocity will vary inversely as the area of each section. Those who 
 have experimented on this subject slate that the depth will be the same 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 131 
 
 at every part of the stream, and the inclination of the surface will be 
 equal to or parallel with the inclination of the heel. The quanity of 
 water running through any number of dissimilar sections, a, 6, c, &c., 
 with the velocity v 9 in any given time, is manifestly equal, for axv 
 = bxv = cxv 9 or the quantity passing through each section is con- 
 stant ; therefore, the height of the stream being parallel with the bed, 
 it is obvious that, in proportion as the area at any part increases, the 
 velocity through each section decreases in inverse proportion. In our 
 district we have sewers of the egg shape with the narrow end down, 
 with the broad end down, and with the nearly flat bottom, sometimes all 
 three of them joining on to the end of each other. Now, I have repeat- 
 edly observed that, with the same body of water and the same inclina- 
 tion, the height of the stream was parallel with the channel, and the 
 velocity in the first form was much more rapid, and the deposit con- 
 siderably less, than in the second form, and still more so than in the 
 last form. Those who say that the segmental and semicircular bot- 
 tomed sewers are best, reason upon the supposition that all the sewers 
 are always either full or three parts full of running water, when the 
 fact is, that the stream, in nineteen-twentieths of them at any time, 
 are mere dribbles. Hence the error in providing for an occurrence that 
 never happens, and so making the bottoms broad and capacious, 
 whereby the slight flow becomes spread over a large surface, and de- 
 posit ensues. I speak of the streams in sewers, and not of water 
 ponded up in them in low districts. 
 
 How soon do you think experiments might be made, and rules laid 
 down from them, to determine the questions approximately for practi- 
 cal purposes? It would mainly depend on the persons making ex- 
 periments, and on the mode in which the experiments were con- 
 ducted; but I have no doubt that, with exclusive attention to the 
 subject, sufficiently practical data might be established in a few 
 weeks. 
 
 Have you gauged the depth of the water flowing in the sewers'? 
 Yes, 1 have done so on numerous occasions. I beg to submit these 
 sections. The first figure shows (he depth of the ordinary flow in the 
 upright-sided first-class sewer in High-street, St. Giles's, draining about 
 ninety acres of urban or covered town district, and of the greatest 
 height 01 the flow during very violent storms ; the second figure shows 
 the ordinary and storm flow in the same form of second-class branch 
 and summit-level sewers, draining from one to three moderate-sized 
 streets; the third figure shows the same quantities of water draining 
 
132 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 from the large surface concentrated in the present first-class sewer; and 
 the fourth figure, the same quantities draining from the small e.rea of 
 surface concentrated in second class sewer now in use. It will he seen 
 that in the case of the main branch sewers draining large areas of 
 town district, they are nearly double the size that they need be, arid 
 in the case of the sewers draining from one to three streets, they are at 
 least seven and ten times larger than is absolutely required. I should 
 state that the average fall of the first-named sewers so<draining is equal 
 to half an inch in ten feet. 
 
 Fig. 1.. 
 
 Level of flow in greatest thun- 
 der storm. 
 
 Level of ordinary flow. ..J Js=i is? 
 
 Fig. 2. 
 
 Level of ordinary flow. 
 
 Fig. 3. 
 
 Main Sewer of the egg shape- 
 
 [.. Level of flow during greatest 
 
 storms. 
 
 Fig. 4. 
 
 Collateral Sewer of the egg shape. 
 
 Level of or- 
 dinary flow. 
 
 L evel of 
 r ea t e st 
 ow during 
 
 very heavy 
 
 storms. 
 
 level of 
 o dina.y 
 flow. 
 
 - Level of great- 
 est flow dur- 
 ing very 
 heavy storms. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 133 
 
 Have you at all considered the capacities of sewers necessary for 
 draining different areas of ground ? Yes, I have given the subject 
 much attention. If the consideration of the sizes of sewers was con- 
 fined solely to the carrying off the water supplied hy the several 
 water companies, then I apprehend (hat pipes somewhat larger in 
 size than the supply-pipes themselves would suffice; hut provision 
 has to be made for receiving and conveying away the waters of heavy 
 rains. In London, continuous heavy falls of rain are not of long du- 
 raiion, lasting seldom more than from one lo four hours. About one- 
 fifth of ihe quantity that falls is absorbed partly by the dry ness of the 
 surface of (he roof, the paving, and the ground, and partly by the porosity 
 of t he ground itself. A farther proportion is also prevented from flowing 
 to the drains and sewers at all by hollows in the surface, and again 
 reascends into the atmosphere as vapor* There is also a small quan- 
 tity that enters into the composition of animal and vegetable bodies. 
 Then there is the resistance the flow experiences from the friction of 
 the entire surface, being accelerated or detained in proportion as the 
 surface is more or less inclined. To provide for ihe discharge of a fall 
 of rain of two inches in depth has been considered by Mr. Hawksley, 
 C. E., the extreme datum upon which to proportion the capacities of 
 of town sewers generally. Now, I believe that, practically, the sizes 
 in his table, although they may appear theoretically correct, are (ex- 
 cepting for the smallest sizes) too large for sewers in London. It 
 is extremely violent rains alone that produce a depth of two inches 
 per hour, and such rains occur only once in four or five years, if so 
 much. I am of opinion that it is unnecessary to proportion the sizes 
 of the sewers to meet an extraordinary occurrence that may probably 
 happen only once in so many years. My reason for not fearing any 
 serious damage from an excess of rain at remote intervals being pro- 
 vided for in surface channels, excepting, perhaps, in situations pecu- 
 liarly liable to inundation (for instance, at the foot of i loug or steep 
 declivity, or where the waters may, from any cause, be suddenly con- 
 gregated at one focus) is, that I have observed, that in towns en- 
 tirely destitute of underground drains, no such inconvenience is felt 
 as would justify the formation of enormously large sewers, or the ex- 
 penditure of large sums of money to provide against it. In August, 
 1846, a most extraordinary fall of rain occurred in London. The storm 
 lasted nearly two hours, and, from the best information I have been able 
 to obtain, the depth of rain amounted to about four inches. Much 
 9 
 
134 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 damage resulted therefrom, by the water in the principal main lines 
 situate in the valleys flowing up the drains and branch sewers, and 
 inundating the rooms and cellars below its level by the influence of its 
 pressure. The inundation of lands and the damaging of property in 
 the valleys could not happen if there were parallel catch-water lines 
 of sewers on the sides of the declivities to convey the drainage into 
 the river by separate outlets. The average fall of rain in London is 
 about twenty-two inches in a year, or about two and a-half inches in 
 depth per thousand hours. Now, after observing and calculating the 
 depths of different falls of rain in London, it appears to me that if the 
 sewers were of sufficient capacity to receive and discharge, as fast 
 as it falls, a' quantity of water equal to the produce of a fall of 
 rain of one inch in depth per hour, they would be found large enough, 
 'and that more particularly, if they were built on the intercepting or 
 catch-water principle, and so as to communicate with each other, and 
 all be filled with running water at the same time. The steps to be 
 taken to proportion the capacities of sewers to receive and convey away 
 the waters of heavy rains should, I think, be as follows, although I 
 fully admit our present knowledge of the subject to be very element- 
 ary: To ascertain the number of superficial yards or acres to be 
 drained by each sewer separately ; progressing in a uniform gradation 
 from the entire natural area to be drained by the largest outfall sewer, 
 to the small tract of land to be drained by the least sewer on the sum- 
 mit. Taking the hourly fall of rain, therefore, upon one acre ai one 
 inch in depth, we must provide for the discharge of a quantity of water 
 4 V 2 6 ) ~ 3630 cubic feet per hour, or one cubic foot nearly per acre 
 per second. Then, taking into account the loss from absorption, the 
 detention from friction, and otherwise, that quantity might be reduced 
 to four-fifths of a cubic foot, but as the carrying off the waste water of 
 the entire of London must be provided for at the same time, one cubic 
 foot may, I think, be considered as the datum upon which to calculate 
 the capacities of sewers sufficient for conveying away that quantity of 
 water per second multiplied by the number of acres to be drained. 
 The quantity of rain-waier draining from an acre of ground in one 
 second of time may be determined by first ascertaining the exact area 
 of surface drained by some large main sewer; and, secondly, during 
 the time of the storm, the quantity of water passing through the sewer 
 in one second ; then the number of cubic feet of water discharged, 
 divided by the number of acres drained, will give the number of cubic 
 feet of rain draining from the surface of each acre per secoud. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 135 
 
 The velocity of the stream may be ascertained, if (he section be uni- 
 form in any considerable portion of its length, by timing the distance a 
 light floating body would pass over in a given time, as for instance, in 
 one second. Let d be the distance described in t seconds, and v the 
 
 velocity at the surface of the -current, then - = v the velocity. Thus 
 
 t 
 
 if a floating substance be thrown into the stream, and it be carried over 
 a space of 200 feel, or 2400 inches in 60 seconds, the velocity at the 
 surface will be ( 2 ^j ) = 40 inches per second, or 3'33 fe.-t. But. the 
 velocity is greatest at the surface in the middle of the stream, and least 
 at the sides and bottom ; and the mean velocity of the vertical section 
 is equal to half the sum of the surface and boitom velocities. Then, 
 according to Du Bu;t, to find the bottom velocity, subtract 1*03 from 
 the square root of the surface velocity, expressed in inches, the square 
 of the remainder is the boitom velocity. Let m be the mean velocity, 
 v the velocity at the surface as before, and b the velocity at the bottom, 
 we have 
 b = (j~v 1'03) 2 = C/40 1-03) 2 = (6-32 1-03) 2 = 5'29 2 = 27 '98 
 
 inches the bottom velocity ; and 
 
 777 = i ( v _|_ i) _- i(40 + 27'98) = 33-99 inches th3 mean velocity. 
 Br linings makes the mean velocity m r 9 jj ths v the superficial velocity ; 
 and Prony makes m = 0'82 v, or m = |ths v ; but all who have 
 experimented on tins subject differ in the results. Then if the trans- 
 verse area of the vertical section of the stream at this part be ascertain- 
 ed, and multiplied by the mean velocity, the product will be the num* 
 ber of cubic feet of water discharged per second through the section. 
 
 The most accurate method, however, of ascertaining ihe quantity of 
 water discharged in a second is by gauging the height of the flow pass- 
 ing through a thin rectangular opening, in a darn or waste-board fixed 
 across the outlet. The top of the dam must be raised as high as possi- 
 ble in order that the force of the running stream may be expended in 
 the reservoir formed by the dam before it arrives at the opening. The 
 edges of the opening should he made sharp ; for this purpose I cut a 
 perfectly rectangular hole 12 in. wide by 18 in. high, in a plate of 
 thin sheet iron, and file the edges quite sharp ; I then fasten this frame 
 inside the aperture made in the boarded dam, which aperture should be 
 bevelled externally. The longitudinal surface of the stream as it is- 
 sues through the opening lakes the curve of a parabola, whose area is 
 equal to two-thirds of its circumscribing rectangle ; so that the number 
 
136 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 of cubic feet of water discharged in a second over a waste-board may be 
 found, by taking two-thirds of the product of the square root of the height 
 of the stream multiplied by 5* 1 (the co-efficient of the velocity for contrac- 
 tion,) and this product by the transverse area of the stream at the open- 
 ing. Call h the height from the lip of the opening to the surface of the 
 water, equal to 1J ft., w the width of the opening, equal to 1 ft., q the 
 quantity of water discharged per second, the co-efficient for contraction 
 being 5*1, we have 
 
 q = %(J~h X 5-1) X hw 
 
 = f'u/Ts X 5-1) X 1*5 X 1'0= f (1'22X5'1)X 1'5X I'O 
 = 4-148 X 1-5 X I'O == 6'222 cubic feet of water discharged in a 
 second, or 373 '32 cubic feet in a minute. 
 
 The following formula may also be used for calculating the discharge 
 over a waste-board : 
 
 q = ^ h z X 11 J X w, or in words, 
 
 multiply the square root of the cube of the depth (all the dimensions being 
 in inches) by 11|-, and by the length of the waste-board^ the product will be 
 the cubic inches of water discharged per second. 
 
 It is supposed that the discharge by either of the foregoing formula 
 is from a perfectly stagnant reservoir ; should, however, the water 
 reach the opening with any velocity, the area of the section must be 
 multiplied by the mean velocity of the stream. 
 
 The area of surface that a sewer will drain, and the quantity of wa- 
 ter that it will discharge in a given time, will be greater or less in pro- 
 portion as the channel is inclined from a horizontal to a vertical posi- 
 tion. The ordinary or common run of water in each sewer, due from 
 house drainage alone, and irrespective of rain, should have sufficient 
 velocity to prevent the usual matter discharged into the sewer from de r 
 positing. For this purpose it is necessary, as I hnve previously ob- 
 served, that there should be in each sewer a constant velocity of cur- 
 rent equal to 2| feet per second, or If mile per hour. The inclinations 
 of all rivulets, brooks, streams, and rivers, gradually and proportionally 
 diminish as they progress from their sources to their outfalls. In pro- 
 portion as the inclinations diminish so does the quantity of water in- 
 crease. If the inclinations were the same throughout, the velocity of 
 the united stream at each confluence would increase in nearly the same 
 ratio as its quantity, or equal to the sum of the previous velocities of 
 the recipient and the feeder, and thus would the velocity ultimately 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 137 
 
 become so very impetuous as to tear up and sweep away the materials 
 of its bed, and cause destruction along its banks. If the force of the 
 waters of the river Rhone were not absorbed by the operation of some 
 constant retardation in its course, the stream would have shot into the 
 Bay of Marseilles with the tremendous velocity of 240 feet in a second 
 or 164 miles every hour ; and even if the river Thames met with no 
 system of impediments in its course, the stream would have rushed into 
 the sea with a velocity of 80 feet per second, or 54| miles in an hour. 
 The result, however, of the operations of nature is a compensation for 
 the increased body of water by a diminution of the inclination of the 
 bed, and so an economizing" of the force of the gradually accumulating 
 current. The inclinations of the sewers of a natural district should be 
 made to diminish from their heads to their outfalls in a corresponding 
 ratio of progression, so that as the body of water is increased at each 
 confluence, one and the same velocity and force of current may be kept 
 up throughout the whole of them. 
 
 All calculations respecting the flow of water in rivers and open 
 water-courses are based on the proposition that the mean velocity is uni- 
 form when the resistance arising from the friction of the channel is equal 
 to the accelerating force which gives it motion. The authors on this 
 subject state that the resistance for any given quantity of water in mo- 
 tion will vary directly as the extent of the border in contact with the 
 stream, and inversely as the transverse area occupied by the stream. 
 Calling the area a and the border e y = d, the hydraulic mean depth. 
 
 e 
 
 Then by taking the bottoms of two sewers of the same width but of 
 different forms, and having equal transverse areas, the amount of fric- 
 tion in each bottom will be directly as the bases, and inversely as the 
 
 heights, of the rectangular parallelograms obtained by , viz. the fric- 
 
 e 
 
 tion in the 
 
 < 3-0 
 
 
 ,92 /*#- 
 
138 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 square bottom will be = 92, and in the eliptical bottom it will be 
 = 87, and inversely as the hydraulic mean depih, in the former = 110, 
 and in the latter = 116. Hence the superiority of a deeply curved to 
 a square channel for the bottom of a sewer. 
 
 According- to Eytelwein, the mean velocity in a second of any river or 
 water-course flowing through a straight and uniform channel is equal to 
 \\ths of a mean proportional between the hydraulic mean depth [and the 
 fall in two English miles. From this simple theorem may be deduced 
 the velocity of the current from the fall, and the fall from the velocity, 
 as also of the different areas of surface which a sewer, having (he same 
 capacity, hut with varying inclinations, will effectually drain. The 
 formula from which the foregoing rule is deduced is as follows : 
 
 10 
 
 11 
 
 in which d is the hydraulic mean depth as before, and f the fall in two 
 miles. Sir John Leslie's formula for computing the velociiy of a 
 stream is also very simple. Let the slope be the nil} part of the dis- 
 
 tance, and d the hydraulic mean depth ; then 100 /-will express the 
 
 resulting velocity in feet per second. Hence if the declivity were one 
 part in ten thousand, the velocity would be as the square root of the 
 hydraulic mean depth (^/ d.) Let /denote the fall in feet each mile, 
 and the formula will change into 
 
 Hence the mean velocity, reckoning in miles per hour, is expressed by 
 
 He states that this result is quito conformable to actual observation. 
 From this formula we deduce the following rule : Multiply the hy- 
 draulic mean depth of a stream by the declivity in a mile, both in feet, 
 and extract the square root of the product ; the result, diminished by ^th 
 part, will be the mean velocity of a stream in miles per hour. Now the 
 above are the very best data which, after much anxious search and 
 many inquiries, I have been able to collect, and it may appear to be 
 an act of presumption to question them ; but these are all, or most of 
 them, theoretical, or have reference only to the natural and not to the 
 artificial discharge of waters ; but as my observation of facts, and the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 139 
 
 experiments I have rnnde, lead me to believe that the sizes recom- 
 mended may be still further reduced, and with great advantage in 
 every respect, I will not hesitate to express that opinion. As an ex- 
 ample, I require (o know the number of acres, or the area of surface, 
 that an egg-shaped sewer of my form, 5 ft. high by 3 ft. wide will 
 drain, the inclination being = 1 in 100 ; also the velocity of the current, 
 and the quantity of water discharged per second. 
 
 The transverse area of the sewer = 11*78 ft., and the border of the 
 
 1 I . >JQ 
 
 section = 12'76 ft., then = .923 ft., the hydraulic mean 
 
 depth. A fall of 1 in 100 = 105'6 ft. in two miles; .'. by Eytel- 
 wein's formula we have 
 
 = V (-923x105-6)== X 9-872 ==8-974 ft., 
 the mean velocity in a second ; and by Leslie's formula 
 
 miles per hour ; and in feet per second 
 
 6-494 X 5280 
 
 60 x 60 
 
 9-52, 
 
 Putting c = the number of cubic feet of water discharging per 
 second, and 5 = the number of acres or area of surface draining by 
 the sewer, we have a m = c, = s, or, by the latter formula, 1 1*78 X 
 9-52 = 112' 14 cubic feet of water discharging per second, and also 
 112' 14 acres draining, because (as we have already deduced) there is 
 one cubic foot of rain draining from each acre of ground per second. 
 Now, in practice, I find many instances of sewers with the same ca- 
 pacity and fall, and offering a much greater frictional surface, yet dis- 
 charging, year after year, the concentrated drainage of a very much 
 larger area of surface, and such sewers being never more than half 
 full of running water; in fact, absurdly large as practice demonstrates 
 the present sewers to be, these theories would make them larger. I 
 have sometimes found the velocity and discharge of water through 
 sewers much greater than the foregoing formula would give. I have 
 no hesitation in saying that a sewer 5 ft. high by 3 ft. wide, with a fall 
 of 1'20 inch in 10 ft., or 1 in 100, will effectually drain 200 acres of 
 town area. 
 
140 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You have recently built in your district a main sewer along Berwick 
 street and Wells street, Marylebone, for the drainage of All Souls' 
 district ? Yes. 
 
 What is the transverse area of that sewer, its rate of inclination, and 
 the number of acres draining into it? The transverse area is 11| feet, 
 the fall is 2| inches in 100 feet, or 1 in 480, and the number of acres 
 is about 130. 
 
 Are you quite sure that the sewer you have put in is of sufficient 
 capacity for draining that area 1 ? I am confident of it; indeed, I am 
 not sure that it is not too large. Referring to Mr. Hawksiey's Table, 
 I find that a sewer of rather larger capacity, with the same tail, will, 
 drain only 33J acres ; and according to the same table, it appears that 
 the sewer should be 7 feet diameter, or 3| times larger than the one 
 built. I have plans prepared for rebuilding 2,650 feet of the King's 
 Scholars' Pond main sewer along Park road, Regent's park. I pro- 
 pose that the size of the sewer should be 6J feet diameter, the fall be- 
 ing 2| inches in 100 feet, or 1 in 480, and the number of acres of 
 town area to drain into it being about 500. Calculating from Mr. 
 Hawksiey's formulae, I find, however, that the sewer should be about 
 14 feet diameter, or five times the capacity I propose it should be. 
 
 According to the theories that have been promulgated, it would ap- 
 pear that nature lias not properly proportioned the capacities of the 
 beds of rivers to the area of surface and the quaniiiy of water draining 
 into them, and that they are hence very much smaller than they ought 
 to be. But, on (he contrary, we know that the economy of nature 
 moderates all violence, and that it ever aims at an equilibrium. The 
 greatest error in proportioning the sizes of the sewers arises from sup- 
 posing so large a quantity of water as two inches in depth per hour 
 flows into them from the surface, and also in supposing that the velocity 
 is prop* rtional to the extent of surface in contact with the stream. Art 
 should aim at aiding and assisting nature. A perfect equality of action 
 and reaction, and of proportion in the forms and capacities of a gradu- 
 ated system of sewers should be established in accordance with the 
 progressive increase of the quantity and velocity of water flowing into 
 them fiom the sources to the outfalls. Something like an approxima- 
 tion to accuracy in this respect may be arrived at by ascertaining the 
 ratio between the capacities of rivers and the areas of surface draining 
 into them. It is from viewing the discrepancies between the results of 
 theories and formulae which are laid down for our guide, and of what 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 141 
 
 we actually know from practical experience, that makes me think it 
 extremely desirable to commence at once an. extensive range of ex- 
 periments in the present sewers before going farther, in order to deter- 
 mine practical data arid formulae to work from. 
 
 It would appear that two, or even three districts of equal extent 
 might be drained at the expense at which one now is, and that too 
 very much more efficiently ? Yes, certainly. 
 
 Of course, with the constant supply of water, and constant dilution 
 of matters which decompose rapidly on exposure to the air, the ema- 
 nations would be greatly reduced? Yes ; inasmuch as there would be 
 less access of air and no time for the matters to decompose. 
 
 Under such a system, and with a constant supply of water, do you 
 not think it would be practicable to remove all faces from a town almost 
 before they can have had time to decompose'? Most decidedly. The 
 entire filth, in my opinion, would be carried off nearly as fast as pro- 
 duced. 
 
 Have you not observed, that in a thunder-storm in some of the town 
 districts there has been, during the first part of the shower, an increase 
 of smell from the gully-shoots, and after the smell a remarkable fresh- 
 ness, or diminution of the ordinary smell in ihe atmosphere? Now, 
 with a constant supply of water acting through smaller sewers, do you 
 not believe that such occasional freshness of the atmosphere might be 
 made constant? In the ill-drained districts there is a heavy haziness 
 about the atmosphere, as, for example, the lower and more densely 
 populated part of the city of Westminster, and in many other ill- 
 drained districts with which I am acquainted. I have always expressed 
 my conviction, t'lat this evil may be remedied by a perfect system of 
 house and street drainage; and, with the exception of the smoke and 
 gas nuisances, such districts be rendered nearly as healthy as a suburban 
 district. Now, as regards the city of Westminster, the greater part of 
 the surface of which is below high tide level, it is the worst drained 
 district which I know, yet it is capable of being drained almost as well 
 as any other in London, and that, too, as regards the keeping of the 
 sewers cleansed, without any supply of pipe-water. It is useless, how- 
 ever, to hope that the sewers of this low and flat district can keep 
 themselves clean. It is absolutely essential, therefore, that a complete 
 system of flushing should be adopted for that district. The river 
 Thames is close at hand, and as much clean water as may be required 
 for flushing can be obtained from that source alone. The construction 
 
142 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 of a main outfall sewer for the distinct and separate drainage of this 
 district is a subject of the first consideration. Until this is done the in- 
 terior drainage cannot be laid out so as to form a connected and effi- 
 cient system. The drainage of the natural area by the King's Scholars' 
 Pond main sewer, which, running along the lowest line of the valley 
 and so descending from the high land into and through this low flat of 
 land to the Thames, might have been all very well while the general 
 surface was open fields, but as this surface became covered with streets 
 and houses, the waters were gradually loaded more and more with 
 filth and heavy matter constantly depositing along this low flat, and so 
 the channel along this part is rendered wholly unfit for the new order 
 of things. During the last hundred and fifty years, this sewer, through 
 the low ground, has been a perpetual source of trouble and expense 
 from the overflowing of its banks and the constant choking up of its 
 channel. The total sum of money that has been squandered on it must 
 be enormous, at least 100, 000 has been expended on it during the 
 present century ; and even now it is expedient to intercept the upland 
 waters by a catch-water sewer to be carried along the base of the high 
 ground. A good and perfect outfall is the first object of consideration, 
 especially through a low flat of land. It is quite impossible to pre- 
 serve such an outfall if the natural drainage be prevented from passing 
 off as it descends, and the channel be deprived of the scouring action 
 of the tidal waters by sluices or flood-gates at the outlet, and they should 
 never be permitted excepting for a district entirely below high water 
 mark. Indeed, experience proves that the bed of an outfall should 
 be carried some feet under low water level, the, channel straightened, 
 and the mouth left open for the free admission and discharge of the 
 tidal and sewage waters. By carrying the outfalls of the sewers some- 
 what below the level of the lowest ebb, the constant flux and reflux 
 of the tides will always keep the matters saturated, detached, and sus- 
 pended, and so they will pass off. If there were no obstruction at the 
 outlet of this sewer, the pressure of the downfall water would, at all 
 times of the tide 3 and even if the sewer were full of tidal water, force 
 its way outwards ; and upon the receding of each tide the natural ve- 
 locity and scour of both the tidal and sewage waters together would 
 help to clean out and to sweep away the deposits, and so keep the 
 channel clear and open. It is my decided opinion, that much ad- 
 vantage would result from the removal of the flood-gates which now 
 obstruct the outlet. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 143 
 
 But were you to do this, would not the lower floors, and the low 
 land under the level of high tide, be in danger of inundation ? No, as 
 I would take every precaution to prevent that by placing proper self- 
 acting valves at the vents of all the drains and sewers discharging into 
 it within the reach of the highest tide. Having maturely considered 
 this subject, I am convinced that it would be a great improvement to 
 the drainage ; but even this is as nothing compared to the plan which 
 I hope to see carried out for the entire and complete improvement of 
 the drainage of the city of Westminster. 
 
 lu what way do you propose to improve the drainage of the city of 
 Westminster'? I have already said that the greater part of the surface 
 of the city of Westminster is below high tide level. The area of sur- 
 face which I have more particularly in view, is bounded by the King's 
 Scholars' Pond sewer to the west, by the river Thames to the east, 
 and by the south side of St. James'* Park and Whitehall to the north, 
 and consists of about 700 acres of ground covered with streets, and a 
 vast number of courts and blind alleys most densely populated. The 
 ground from Charing Cross, Pall Mall, and the Green Park rises very 
 considerably to the northward. Nearly the whole of the drainage of 
 the large and populous parishes of St. Marylebone, of St. George, 
 Hanover square, of a portion of St. John, Hampsteacl, and of the 
 greater part of St. James', Westminster, is conveyed away by the 
 King's Scholars' Pond main sewer, which has its source at Hampstead, 
 and, running through these parishes and this low flat of land, dis- 
 charges itself into the Thames, near Vauxhall Bridge. While the 
 river water is above its outlet, that is, during the space of five hours 
 and six minutes in every twelve hours, the drainage is locked in. This 
 sewer, therefore, may be considered the grand cesspool of the before- 
 named parishes. Science on the one hand, public health and economy 
 on the other, as also the great and beneficial use to which it might be 
 applied, point out the necessity of diverting this sewer, by carrying it 
 along the brow of the high land, so as to deliver the drainage quickly 
 into the Thames at all hours of the tide, and thus intercept the upland 
 drainage, and prevent it from flowing down upon the low land. Where 
 an embanked district is under high-tide level, but Jilile fall can be 
 given to the sewers, and the drainage is obliged to be pent in them for 
 several hours of each tide. The sewers of a low district require a far 
 different treatment for keeping them cleansed than thesewers of a high 
 district, where a good fall can be given to them, and the drainage can 
 
144 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 be constantly discharged. In the former case, from the stagnation of 
 the drainage, while the tide is above the outlets of the sewers, deposit 
 takes place ; while in the latter case constant flow prevents deposit. 
 The drainage of high lands should therefore be kept entirely separate 
 from all lands below high water mark. There are conditions which it 
 is essential to observe in the arrangement of the drainage of some par- 
 ticular districts. The purification of the Thames water is a subject of 
 the first consideration ; to effect which an intercepting sewer must be 
 made near to, and parallel with, the river, to deliver itself some dis- 
 tance below the town. It is quite practicable to carry out such a plan. 
 After having diverted the King's Scholars' Pond sewer, I would con- 
 vert that part of it between Buckingham Palace and the river, about 
 seven thousand feet long, and nearly twenty feet wide, into a grand 
 reservoir of clean Thames water, instead of a reservoir of filth as at 
 present. Its bottom along this part is from five to eight feet above low 
 water mark. By making all ihe sewers between this reservoir and the 
 river up to Whitehall communicate with each other and with the res- 
 ervoir upon a complete and uniform system of levels, keeping the out- 
 lets clown to or near low-water level, there would be a fall throughout 
 the entire system of sewers from the reservoir to the outlets ; and, by 
 allowing the tide to fill the reservoir when required, a body of water 
 could be retained within it until the time of low tide; and upon the 
 penstocks at the heads of all the sewers which communicate with the 
 reservoir being lifted, the immense body of water would immediately 
 flow down throughout the whole of the sewers with sufficient force to 
 sweep away any deposit and accumulation that might be in them, and 
 thus the entire sewerage of the city of Westminster would be kept in 
 perfect condition. This operation might be repeated as often as de- 
 sired ; but once or twice a-week, I should think, would be sufficient 
 for the purpose. In lieu, therefore, of the present miserable and de- 
 fective drainage of this district, where filth abounds in almost every 
 street, court, and alley, polluting earth and air around for a consider- 
 able distance, it is practicable to construct a judiciously arranged plan 
 of drainage, whereby a profuse body of water may be made to flow 
 twice a-day, if necessary through the sewers, so as to sweep and carry 
 all the filth and refuse before it. 
 
 Have you calculated the quantity of water that you conld let run 
 through the sewers from this reservoir? Yes. Upwards of 500,000 
 cubic feet at one time. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 145 
 
 Are there many streets and courts in Westminster without sewers'? 
 There are a very great many that have never had any under-ground 
 drainage whatever, but such as they have is effected by the surface 
 drains. These places are at times so extremely filthy and offensive as 
 to render them quite unfit for the habitation of human beings. Most 
 of the existing sewers are very old and dilapidated, and require rebuild- 
 ing. But I should be sorry to do any thing toward the improvement 
 of the drainage of this district other than providing a main outfall 
 sewer, until a complete and systematic arrangement of the sewers had 
 been laid down and the level of each sewer previously determined, not 
 only with reference to itself, but to all of them, and so as to form a 
 uniform and connected system in accordance with some such plan as I 
 have just now described. It is far better to take a little time to arrange 
 as to the directions, currents, ami levels at which the sewers should be 
 put in than to put them in hap-hazard as hitherto. In the latter case 
 it is most probable that when they come to be extended into other 
 streets they will be found improperly placed both as to directions and 
 levels. 
 
 How long would it take you to complete the plan ? If I were to de- 
 vote the whole of my time to the subject, I think I could complete it 
 in about seven or eight weeks. The utmost accuracy would be required 
 in taking the levels. 
 
 Have you made any calculation of the probable expense of complet- 
 ing the whole of the plan you purpose? I have made a rough calcu- 
 lation. It is difficult to say what the expense would be in the absence 
 of detailed plans, sections, and specifications. I should say, however, 
 that after the expenditure of about 5000/. for the outfall sewer, and 
 about the same sum to be contributed by the Westminster Improvement 
 Commissioners, to remodel the entire sewerage of the city of Westmin- 
 ster, so as to have a good, complete, and efficient sewer in every street, 
 court, and alley, would cost about 20,000/. This sum is of course ir- 
 respective of diversion of the King's Scholars' Pond sewer, which is a 
 matter requiring most deliberate consideration, both as to the cost and 
 as to the district to bear the burden of it. 
 
 Is this sum based on your present mode of building sewers? No. It 
 is founded upon plans much cheaper, and equally if not more efficient. 
 I have a plan in preparation upon this subject, and propose to take the 
 earliest opportunity which the immense pressure of business will allow 
 of submitting the matter to the Court of Sewers. The preliminary re- 
 
146 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 port respecting the outfall sewer has already been laid before the Com- 
 missioners. 
 
 What form of sewer do you propose to make use of for this low and 
 flat district? The egg-shape form, with the narrow end down, of 
 course. My object would be to prevent deposit by economizing the 
 water, so that it may keep the sewers clean without, if possible, the 
 aid of manual labor and flushing. 
 
 But must not the sewers act as reservoirs while the tide is above the 
 outlets? Some few of them must be so arranged, and such sewers 
 should be sufficiently capacious to hold the drainage that may run oflf 
 the surface, while the discharge is prevented by the tide being above 
 the outlets. These reservoir sewers I would make circular, and all the 
 others, the branch sewers, egg-shaped, for this simple reason, that the 
 soil and the water are thus collected together in a narrow area, and jhe 
 flow is quickened thereby. I know it is the practice to put in enor- 
 mously large sewers in low flat districts bordering on the Thames to act 
 as reservoirs, while the drainage is pent in by the tide. And I also 
 know that it is the opinion of many persons who have given the sub- 
 ject consideration, that the large end of the egg-shaped sewers should 
 he put downwards in such districts ; but having myself not oniy given 
 this question much consideration as well, but having repeatedly been 
 in the sewers at all times of the tide, when there was rain and when 
 there was the common run from house-drainage, I have seen sufficient 
 to prove the fallacy of such opinions, and to warrant me in deporting 
 from the usual practice, and to pay more attention to the formation of 
 the bottom of the sewer, that it may in the circumstances keep itself as 
 clean as possible, rather than to put in reservoir sewers or extended 
 cesspools, which will require the constant attendance of workmen to 
 lift out or flush away the deposit. At the present time, with all that 
 can be required to prove most incontestably the absurdities that have 
 been followed in these respects, yet the same, worse than waste and 
 useless system, is still carried on, and that too with renewed vigor. 
 
 But do not all the sewers become completely filled with the sewage 
 while the tide is up? All the outlets of the low level are perfectly 
 flapped, so that little, or I may say no water passes into them from the 
 tide. It is very seldom in fine weather that even the principal outlet 
 sewers, in the lowest parts of Westminster, are more than half filled. 
 Where then, I would ask, is the water to come from to completely fill 
 all the branch sewers? It is only the waste water due from the supp'y 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 147 
 
 to the houses that accumulates in the sewers (excepting when rain is 
 falling,) and that quantify does not fill one-twentieth of the whole ca- 
 pacity of the sewers put together. The entire substratum of the ground 
 in which the sewers are based is of a sandy nature, and very much of 
 the drainage passes through the bottoms of the defective house-drains, 
 and the sewers, and thus it soaks away through the sand into the water- 
 bearing strata beneath. 
 
 What size sewer would you put in? For the branches in the streets 
 I would vary the sizes, but the largest would be two feet three inches 
 wide, by three feet nine inches high, and would cost about 6$. Sd. per 
 foot run. The outfall sewer I propose to be five feet six inches in di- 
 ameter. I intend it should be put in level with low water of spring 
 tide, or about eighteen feet under Trinity datum, and carried under the 
 side bed of the river to discharge under low- water mark. Here is a 
 complete set of working plans and sections which I have prepared for 
 the entire work (exhibiting the same.) 
 
 Where is the outlet to be? and what line do you propose it should 
 take? I propose that the outlet should be at Richmond terrace, and 
 the route thence along Parliament street, across Parliament square, 
 and along the Broad Sanctuary to Tothili street, thence along the pro- 
 posed Victoria street to Shaftesbury terrace, Vauxhall Bridge road. 
 
 What length of sewer do you imagine would be required to carry, out 
 all you propose to do in Westminster? I cannot say until I have made 
 a particular examination of the present sewers, and ascertained by levels 
 whether any of them could be made available either by lowering- their 
 bottoms or reversing the currents, but about twelve miles altogether, I 
 should think, would be required, or 63,000 feet. 
 
 But would you think it necessary to complete the diversion of the 
 King's Scholars' Pond Sewer before carrying out. your proposed plan for 
 the entire improvement of the sewerage of Wes< minster ? By no means. 
 That ma}' be done at any subsequent period. I should, however, pre- 
 fer having clean Thames water for flushing than sewage water, which 
 contains a large amount of matter in suspension. 
 
 Public attention was recently attracted to the case of the death of a 
 poor man who had been suffocated in the privy of an ill-drained court 
 in Long Acre. You made an examination of the drainage of that court, 
 did you not? Yes, I did. 
 
 In what slate did you find the drainage? On examining the drain- 
 age of this court, Langley court, I found that the houses on the east side 
 
148 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 of the court drained backwards into an old drain or sewer, constructed 
 probably when the houses were built. This was a small sewer, eigh- 
 teen inches wide by two feet high, and had a good fall . The water run- 
 ning through it was sufficient to keep this small sewer nearly clean. 
 I found that another sewer had been built in the court under the au- 
 thority of the Westminster Commission of Sewers. This sewer was 
 one of the ordinary sewers, five feet six inches high by three feet wide, 
 and contained an average depth of three feet of soil. This, though an 
 imperfect instance, was an instance of the effect of a run of water in a 
 small sewer, and of the common operation of a large sewer without a 
 constant and sufficient supply of water. I hand in a section of the 
 sewer showing the condition in which I found it. 
 
 Sewer constructed in Langley Court, Long Acre. 
 
 Does this exhibit the common size of a sewer formerly used for courts, 
 and their condition ? Yes. 
 
 According to your experience, can you state 
 what form or size would have been sufficient 
 for the drainage of this court? The form and 
 size are shown by this sketch, and the sewer and drain are drawn to 
 the same scale. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 147 
 
 Are you quite sure that even this small sewer is not too large 1 
 There are sixteen houses in the court, and in rny opinion, a six-inch 
 tubular drain, properly constructed, would carry off all the drainage as 
 fast as produced. 
 
 Supposing each house to be fifteen feet frontage, what would the cost 
 of the large sewer be per house? About?/. 10s. per house for one side 
 of the sewer. 
 
 How much would the reduced size be? About II. 12s. 6d. per house, 
 being a difference of 5/. 17s. 6d. 
 
 What would be the difference of cost for the whole court 1 Ninety- 
 nine pounds. 
 
 That is to say, nearly six times greater for the sewer which acts as an 
 extended cesspool than for the efficient drain? Yes. 
 
 And this is not a singular instance as to the cost of court sewers? 
 It is not. In fact it is in consequence of these sewers being so enor- 
 mously large and expensive that I believe there are so few courts drained 
 at all. 
 
 This large sewer then was nothing more than an extended cesspool? 
 That is the observatien I was about to make. The sewers of this 
 sort are only elongated cesspools ; and not only is almost every house 
 infested with one or more cesspools somewhere within or about the pre- 
 mises, but probably the inhabitants and the public generally are not 
 aware of the existence of such enormous cesspools under the streets. If 
 the whole of the sewers of this description could be uncovered and seen, 
 their horrible condition, I feel assured, would almost stagger belief that 
 such a state of things could be, and that the authorities having control 
 over them could allow them to continue so even for a single day 
 longer. 
 
 If the houses in such courts having no house-drains, but having cess- 
 pools, were required to be drained into such sewers in which soil is re- 
 tained, are you confident that the sanitary condition of the houses would 
 be benefited by the work? The more fluid portion of the drainage 
 would certainly flow away, and the solid be left behind to decompose; 
 and the noxious gases evolved would certainly infect the houses nearly 
 to the same extent as if the houses had no drains whatsoever. In fact, 
 in many cases, the drain would merely be turned from the private 
 cesspool in the house into the public cesspool in the street. 
 
 Can you say that under the existing or any regulations proposed by 
 the Court, the compulsory exercise of such powers would not be an op- 
 
 10 
 
150 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 quence of their extremely large sizes, the injudicious form of their bot- 
 toms, and inadequate falls, as before referred to, for when one of them is 
 cleansed, the matter which is immediately afterward discharged into it 
 becomes deposited upon the bed (its wide expanded border causing the 
 liquid mass to spread) and the sewer again becomes in a short time 
 wholly inefficient for the purpose of removing and carrying; off the soil. 
 The matter again accumulates until the private drains are choked up, 
 when the soil has again to be lifted to the carriage-ways, and this pro- 
 cess of cleansing and re-cleansing must ever be continued so long as this 
 form of sewer exists, and remains unimproved. From the filthy con- 
 dition in which very many of the sewers now are, the means which 
 have been proved to be highly efficacious for the purpose of keeping them 
 clean, oughi not, I think, to be longer delayed ; and I feel assured, 
 that \v> T<- the authorities fully acquainted with the condition of the 
 sewers under their jurisdiction, there being whole districts where sewers 
 are more or less choked with decomposed matter, not another day should 
 be lost without taking advantage of so simple and ready a method of 
 improvement. 
 
 "It must, however, be admitted, that the method of flushing the 
 sewers is only an expedient to be resorted to when the sewers cannot 
 be kept clean by the simple means of proper construction and efficient 
 fall ; I would, therefore, beg to suggest another distinct method of pro- 
 ceeding, which, in the end, will prevent the matter discharged into the 
 sewers from becoming deposited upon their channels. I propose that 
 all the secondary or collateral sewers, those which branch out of the 
 main lines, as also those which communicate with, and discharge their 
 contents into, these secondary lines, should be strictly examined and 
 properly surveyed; the relative levels throughout each of these collat- 
 eral districts should also be carefully taken and laid down, with a view 
 to an improvement of their falls. 
 
 It should be distinctly understood that no more work should be com- 
 menced until the sizes and falls of all the sewers have been determined 
 on, and re-arranged according to a regularly graduated scale, and I 
 have no hesitation in saying, that until either this be set about and done, 
 or they be entirely rebuilt, there are very many lines which will never 
 be any other than elongated and filthy reservoirs or cesspools, the 
 matter in which will be continually contaminating the atmosphere with 
 its deleterious products* These great evils require immediate repara- 
 tion, which should not be done piecemeal, but upon a well organized 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 151 
 
 system of arrangement ; and if the matter be taken up, as I trust it will, 
 the cost of putting the whole of the badly formed sewers into a state of 
 comparative efficiency could be ascertained without great difficulty." 
 
 The paper containing that article, was sent to the Court by the Editor 
 of the "The Builder." 
 
 .What attention has been paid by the Commissioners to your repre- 
 sentations ? None whatever until very recently, when I was ordered 
 to report as to the measures to be taken for obtaining a complete sur- 
 vey and map of the jurisdiction of the Commissioners. 
 
 Would you make no exception to the suspension of employment un- 
 til a survey can be got? Of course, I make exceptions for cases of 
 emergency. I apprehend that the *first step would be to commence 
 simultaneously on all the outlying or suburban districts, where build- 
 ings are in hand or likely to be commenced, and then complete the 
 plans and levels first, so as to give the greatest facility to new works 
 and prevent the workmen being thrown out of employment. 
 
 If such a force as that of the Board of Ordnance were directed to 
 this work, and they were to take the levels, and the outlines only of 
 the streets, leaving the details to be filled in afterwards, would these 
 outlines' and levels suffice for an emergency, and might they not be 
 done quickly 1 Yes, and that very quickly ; and drainage works might 
 then go on with safety. 
 
 You would, perhaps, ultimately contour the map? Yes, one for ref- 
 erence ; but for the working map I should not think it necessary. 
 
 What work could be proceeded with in the town districts'? Cases 
 might arise where it would be desirable to do something, but I appre- 
 hend that no increased mischief would arise from stopping, for a few 
 months, our works in the town districts. But going on witli works in 
 towns, without the plans, is going on wasting money, even if we had 
 no prospect of being able to reduce the size and the expense of sewers 
 so considerably, as the public have a right to expect will be done. I 
 am perfectly confident that the expense is now most wasteful, and the 
 inefficiency most deplorable. 
 
 Have you a map of your jurisdiction sufficiently correct for you to 
 work from? No. I have found the plans in the office so very diffuse 
 and incorrect, and arranged so very irregularly, as to be of little or no 
 use whatever. Consequently, I seldom refer to them now -for informa- 
 tion, fearing that they may 'mislead me. I find it impossible to pro- 
 ceed a single step with safety and confidence, without a complete sur- 
 vey and plan of the locality requiring to be improved. 
 
152 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 To what scale do you plot your new plans 1 To a scale of 1 inch 
 to 88 feet, or 60 inches to a mile. I have made use of a variety of 
 scales; but I have found and consider that scale sufficiently large for all 
 practical purposes connected with the arrangement of the sewers. The 
 gas and water-pipes, the house-drains, and many other things, might 
 also be laid down upon it, without causing the least embarrassment. 
 After the plan is made, I take the levels of the surface of the streets, 
 &c., and show by figures at their intersections, and at other places, 
 their altitudes above a fixed datum line, namely, Trinity high-water 
 mark. 
 
 Is not this piecemeal mode of surveying, planning and leveling, at- 
 tended with much expense, loss of time, and inconvenience 1 I feel 
 sure that, were a competent staff of surveying officers employed to 
 make a complete map of the metropolis, the expense in the end would 
 not be near so great as the present piecemeal mode of surveying. A 
 considerable saving of time would result, and the work would be bet- 
 ter and more accurately done, and consequently could be safely de- 
 pended on. 
 
 Do you, from your levels, make longitudinal sections of the streets, 
 showing the levels of the proposed improvement of the sewers ? Yes, 
 after I have determined as to the best arrangement of the lines of sewers. 
 
 Are you satisfied that in your new arrangements of the sewers and 
 the levels you determine to put them in at, you are designing the work 
 correctly, and with a view to their future extension, and for the im- 
 provement of other districts 1 No ; I cannot say that I am quite satis- 
 fied of that. All piecemeal work, however careful one may be, is lia- 
 ble to lead to disappointment. When I begin the work of improve- 
 ment in a street, I am induced, with a view to a complete arrangement 
 of the sewers, to travel from that street to another, and so to another, 
 until I go so far as to embrace an entire district, and even then, I find 
 it necessary to take in other districts as well. I know not where to 
 stop, the drainage and the sewers generally being so very bad and di- 
 lapidated, and nearly the whole, in some way or another, requiring 
 amendment or alteration. I often find it necessary to take up sewers 
 that have been put in of late years. I do so, rather than risk incom- 
 pleteness. I should feel more safe and confident in being able to pro- 
 duce a perfect arrangement of the sewers, had I to lay down an entire- 
 ly new and complete scheme for the improvement of the drainage of 
 the whole of a natural area or of the entire metropolis, than I should 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 153 
 
 do by simply taking a small section of either; and my experience in 
 the laying down of plans for the rearrangement and improvement of 
 the sewers, obliges me to say, that the drainage will never be improved 
 as it should be, until a comprehensive scheme is put in hand, similar 
 to what I have described. 
 
 How would you proceed to lay out the drainage of an unchained 
 town district? In the first place, I would make a correct plan of (hat 
 district, and then take the levels and contour the plan. A Her this \vus 
 done, I should, commencing at the outlets, proceed to lay down on the 
 plan, the arrangement of the lines of sewers, so that they should all 
 communicate with each other, upon i uniform system of levels, and 
 in the manner I have before described. Having determined their ar- 
 rangement, the next step would be to make complete working sections 
 of all the sewers, showing (heir depths and inclinations, with reference 
 to a fixed datum line. The capacities and thicknesses I would ilien 
 regulate (after providing for their extension to other districts and for 
 carrying off the back waters of the natural area) progressively fro*n 
 their heads to their outfalls, and according to the ntv.nber of house.;, 
 quantity of water, and area to be drained by each sewer, allowing them 
 to be of sufficient capacity for receiving and conveying away rain and 
 storm waters. 
 
 Supposing a general outline survey to be made, what portion of it 
 might be done, and on what scale, so as to facilitate the early and the 
 safe prosecution of the works within your district? If I had an accu- 
 rate outline plan to a scale of 60 inches to a mile, simply of the streets 
 themselves, without reference to any details whatever of the houses, 
 together with the levels shown at each intersection of the streets, having 
 reference to a fixed point, say Trinity datum, I could easily arrange 
 the directions, depths, and inclinations of the sewers with perfect accu- 
 racy, in a very short time. 
 
 Supposing you could not get a survey made by the Ordnance De- 
 partment in sufficient time, what means would yon adopt to obtain a 
 sufficient plan by which to work from safely? I would commence by 
 laying down a base line, and triangulate the streets and roads, trigo- 
 nometrically, and then fill in the triangles. 
 
 What force, and within what time might this be done according- io 
 your view? The triangulation. cannot be done by a separation of dis- 
 tricts, as the whole of the points and angles must blend and fit together 
 to be accurate, so that this portion of it must be done first, and upon 
 
154 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 its completion, the roads, streets and courts within the various triangles, 
 could be begun upon simultaneously and filled in, in a short time. To 
 execute this survey accurately, would require the undivided attention of 
 several surveyors experienced in this particular kind of work, with a 
 staff of assistants under them ; and the plan might be completed, if 
 carried on with spirit, in something like from six to eight months. 
 
 You have said that you have passed through very many miles of the 
 sewers, and that you had found them, more or less, in bad condition 
 as to cleansing. Do you know in what state the house drains are? 
 Did you examine them ? Yes, I did. They are execrably bad. It 
 would seem from their form, arrangement and construction, that they 
 had been built expressly for retaining matter, rather than carrying it 
 away. The sewers are miserably bad, but bad as they are, most of 
 the house drains are far worse. More than two-thirds of the existing 
 house drains in old localities require to be periodically broken into, to 
 clear out the soil. It was formerly the practice to build all house drains 
 with flat paved bottoms, upright sides, the tops being covered with flat 
 stones or pieces of wood. The drains of almost every house built pre- 
 vious to the commencement of the present century are of this descrip- 
 tion. A worse form of drain is not possible to conceive. I have seen 
 hundreds of them of all sizes, varying from 9 inches square to 18 inches 
 wide, by two feet 6 inches high. I am of opinion, that not one-half of 
 the entire filth produced in the metropolis, finds its way into the sew- 
 ers, but is retained in the cesspools and drains, in and about the bouses, 
 where it lies decomposing, giving off noxious effluvia and poisonous 
 sulphurretted hydrogen and other gases, which constantly infect the 
 atmosphere of such houses, from bottom to top, and which, of course, 
 the inhabitants are as constantly breathing. In thousands of cases, I 
 have no doubt, fevers, and .-a large class of diseases result from this 
 cause. Of what use is it for the benevolent physician to be striv- 
 ing to succor his poor helpless suffering patients, while the very 
 foundation of the evil is allowed to continue, and so baffle all his exer- 
 tion. His labor to alleviate the sufferer and eradicate diseases is, as it 
 were, like a ball which is forced to rise on an inclined plane, whence it 
 continually falls back again to receive new impulsions. It is like the 
 labor of Sisyphus. There are hundreds, I may say thousands, of 
 houses in this metropolis, which have no drainage whatever, and the 
 greater part of them having stinking overflowing cesspools. And 
 there are also hundreds of streets, courts and alleys, that have no 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 155 
 
 sewers ; and how the drainage and filth is conveyed away, and how 
 the poor miserable inhabitants live in such places, it is hard to tell. In 
 pursuance of my duties, from time to time, I have visited very many 
 places, where filth of all kinds was lying scattered about the rooms, 
 vaults, cellars, areas and yards, so thick and so deep, that it was hardly 
 possible to move for it. I have also seen in such places, human beings 
 living and sleeping in sunk rooms, with filth from overflowing cess- 
 pools exuding through, and running down the walls and over the 
 floors. It is utterly hopeless to expect to meet with either civil- 
 ization, benevolence, religion, or viftue, in any shape, where 
 so much filth and wretchedness abounds. The effects of the 
 stench, effluvia, and poisonous gases constantly evolving from these 
 foul accumulations, were apparent in the haggard, wan, and swarthy 
 countenances and enfeebled limbs of the poor creatures whom I found 
 residing over and amongst these dens of pollution and wretchedness. 
 I should be ashamed to keep pigs in so much filth as I have seen hu- 
 man beings living amongst. Places similar to those I have described, 
 are existing at the present time in numerous part of the metropolis. 
 And here, if I may be allowed, I would beg, indeed I would implore, 
 the Commission of Inquiry, if they have not already seen them, to ac- 
 company me to some of these places, and to devise and adopt, without 
 delay, some ready means, and recommend the Legislature at once to 
 make laws for the removal and suppression of so much evil an evil, 
 too, whereby the cleanly and the innocent are made to suffer nearly 
 equally with those who may be called the dirty and the guilty ; for 
 wherever the natural laws in respect of cleanliness are neglected, there 
 the seeds of infectious diseases are generated, which will spread into 
 other districts where cleanliness is observed, and so will attack those 
 who have had no hand in bringing the visitation upon themselves. 
 To allow such a state of things to exist, is a blot upon this scientific 
 and enlightened age an age, too, teeming with so much wealth, re- 
 finement and benevolence, Morality, and the whole economy of do- 
 mestic existence, is outraged and deranged by so much suffering and 
 misery. Let not, therefore, the morality, the health, and the comfort 
 of thousands of our fellow-creatures, in this metropolis, be in the hands 
 of those who care not about these things, but let good and wholesome 
 laws be enacted to compel houses to be kept in a cleanly and healthy 
 condition. 
 
 What sized sewer would suffice for the drainage of an ordinary 
 
156 . MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sized court or alley 1 I would make use of an egg-shaped pipe ^. 
 sewer, of the form and size shown by this section, with a tank, 
 and an apparatus for flushing at the head of it. The sewer rep- ^f 
 resented, is the least sized that I should think it safe to use. 
 
 What sized sewers do you now actually use for the drainage of courts 
 and alleys? A sewer of the egg shape, with a very narrow bottom, 
 two feet nine inches high, by one foot six inches wide, and half a brick 
 in thickness, costing about 5s. per foot run, has been introduced by me ; 
 whereas^ formerly a sewer was used for courts, costing about five times 
 that sum. This small sewer is unnecessarily large. 
 
 What sized sewers has it hitherto been the practice to use in narrow 
 courts and alleys, and short streets? A sewer five feet high, by two 
 feet six inches wide, which is of sufficient capacity to drain 500 ordi- 
 nary courts or streets. 
 
 Were these enormous sewers directed by the Commissioners who 
 were architects? Yes; the forms were originally laid down by a for- 
 mer chairman. 
 
 What would be the price of a sewer for a court or alley of the size 
 you propose? The pipe itself would cost about 2Qd. per foot ; but the 
 removal of the earth and the paving, and the making good, would in- 
 crease the expense to about 3s. per foot. 
 
 But do not the present Paving Boards charge 3s. a yard, for making 
 good the footway pavement, and Is. 9d. a yard for the carriage-way 
 paving ? Do you include those charges in the 3s. ? No. In my an- 
 swer, I presume a consolidation of jurisdictions, and that the building 
 of the sewer and the paving are under one and the same body, as in 
 fact they ought to be. The present charges are, in my opinion, very 
 exorbitant. 
 
 Will you contrast the expense of the general drainage of streets, 
 courts, and alleys, with the expense at which an improved drainage 
 might be carried out ? I have already stated that the cost of a first 
 class sewer, of the upright-sided form, was about 22s. Qd. per foot run, 
 that the present first class egg-shaped form, ordinarily costs about 14s. 
 2d. per foot run, and that I think the expense, under an entirely differ- 
 ent system, with constant supplies of water to keep the sewers clean, 
 might still be further reduced to about 7s. per foot run for the larger 
 class of branch sewers, and to about 6s. 4d., 5s. 7d., 5s. 3d., 4s. 6d., and 
 4s. per foot run for the smaller ones. The annexed sketches show the 
 past, present, and future forms and sizes : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 157 
 
 Past Form, First Size. 
 
 Cost 22s. 6d. per foot run. 
 Area, 15-5 ft. 
 
 Present^Form, First Size. 
 
 CostJI4s. 2d per foot run. 
 Area .,11 -2 ft. 
 
 Past Form, Second Size. 
 
 Cost 195. per foot run. 
 
 Present Form, Second Size. 
 
 Cost 12s per foot run. 
 Area, 7-85 ft. 
 
 Future Forms and Sizes, with regulated supply of water. 
 
 First Class, 
 
 7s. per foot run. 
 
 Area, 6- 6 ft. 
 
 Second Class, 
 
 6s. 4d. per foot run. 
 
 Area, 5-2 ft. 
 
 Third Class, 
 
 5s. 7d. per foot run. 
 
 Area, 4 ft. 
 
158 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Fourth Class, 
 3d. per foot run. 
 Area, 2 -9 ft. 
 
 Fifth Class. 
 
 4s. 6d. per foot run. 
 
 Area, 2 ft. 
 
 Sixth Class, 
 
 Is. per foot run. 
 
 Area, 1-3 ft. 
 
 Seventh Class. 
 
 3s. per foot run. 
 
 Area, -736ft. 
 
 19 
 
 2 13 
 2 7 
 2 
 
 1 18 
 1 14 
 
 6 
 10 
 5 
 
 4 7 
 3 
 
 
 Taking a house of seventeen feet frontage, the cost for one side of 
 the sewer would be as follows, viz : 
 
 s. d. 
 Past upright-sided sewer, per house ,...9 11 3 
 
 Present egg-shaped sewer, " 6 5 
 
 Future egg-shaped sewers, with water supply com- 
 bined, viz : 
 
 First class, per house * 2 
 
 Second" " 
 
 Third " " 
 
 Fourth " " 
 
 Fifth " " 
 
 Sixth " " 
 
 So that a saving by the present mode over the old mode of 31. 10s. Wd. 
 per house is effected, and that a further saving might be effected over 
 the present mode of construction, of from 3/. Os. Md. to 41. 6s. 5d. per 
 house, and with far better sewers, which would be kept constantly 
 clean, and which would scarcely or never get out of order. I propose 
 that the darker portions of the bottoms of the larger sewers should be of 
 of well prepared clay, moulded in blocks, two feet long, and well burnt ; 
 the upper portions to be formed of radiated bricks, laid in blue lias mor- 
 tar ; and the smaller sewers to be made entirely of brown stoneware, 
 glazed, similar to this specimen which I have had prepared for the 
 purpose of showing what can be done in this material, With proper 
 machinery, I have no doubt but that whole sections of egg-shaped 
 sewers can be made in pottery, perfectly straight, regular and smooth, 
 of almost any required diameter, and in length, varying from 2 to 6 
 feet. Much improvement might be introduced in the manufacture of 
 these pipes. The kilns in which they are burned also require to be 
 differently arranged and constructed, both as to the economy of storage 
 room and of heat. Much of the heat at present is wasted. The fur- 
 naces should be improved. Chemical analysis would point out to us 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 159 
 
 the ready means of composing a cheap and durable clay, suitable for 
 the making 1 of these pipes. I feel convinced that the expense of pipes 
 may be very much lessened by bringing scientific knowledge into their 
 manufacture, and that we may be able to produce pipes of far better 
 quality than the present pipes. The entire question of sewerage is as 
 yet in its infancy, and in my opinion, we may hope ultimately to put 
 in miles of durable and efficient sewers at the same price, and in the 
 same time, as we now put in thousands*of feet. That is to say, we 
 may be able, I think, to put in five feet at the same cost, and in the 
 same time as we now put in one foot. 
 
 You have been requested to take the case of a court or alley, and 
 estimate the expense of draining it upon the old plan of drainage, 
 which has been carried out in the Westminster Commission of Sewers 
 until within the last two or three years, and now in use in several other 
 districts in the metropolis, and generally adopted by private builders ; 
 next, to contrast this expense with the expense of the present plan of 
 drainage, without any combination with the water supply ; and then 
 to make an estimate of the expense at which a contract might be prob- 
 ably obtained for the execution and maintenance of a complete house 
 and street drainage of the same court and alley, in the most efficient 
 and economical manner, draining the houses from behind, where that 
 might be done, and would save breaking through the fronts of the 
 houses. You were requested to estimate the expense of laying on water, 
 at the rate at which it is done on the constant supply for houses of that 
 class for Preston, and estimate the expense of a soil-pan apparatus of 
 the same description as that described to have been in use at Ashton, 
 to supersede cesspools. Have you done so ? Yes, 
 
 What would be the expense per house, of the house and street drain- 
 age recently in use in your own district, and now in use in several 
 others'? 14/. 2s. 6d. per house, for the past system. The assumed 
 prices at which I have calculated the quantities, I think will be con- 
 sidered by builders very fair prices. 
 
 What would be the expense at the present improved system as it is 
 called 1 8/. Os. 6d. per house. The prices are about the same as those 
 at which I estimated the expense of the drainage of one of the districts 
 in Marylebone. 
 
 What do you estimate the expense of drainage on the improved 
 system which we contemplate, and the improved supplies of water ? 
 21. Ss. 9d. for each house, that is simply for the sewer and the drain. 
 
]60 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The expense of laying on the water would, I apprehend, be about 5s. 
 per house in each instance, which is the rate of expense at Preston. 
 
 You think that 21. 8s. 9d. per house will be a fair estimate for the 
 expense of the complete drainage of a court ? Yes ; taking one house 
 with another, and contingencies, I have not the least doubt it could be 
 done for 21. 10s. per house. On a large contract, I should not hesitate 
 to keep the whole drainage in a thorough condition, for the term of 20 
 years, on a small per centage upon this estimate. Taking one court 
 with another, I believe that the expense of taking up and relaying pave- 
 ments, cutting through and underpinning walls, might be taken on an 
 average for about 5s. per house extra. 
 
 This last estimate then, is for drainage along the backs of the houses ; 
 and so avoiding carrying the drains through the fronts of the houses ; 
 yet in cases where it were found impracticable to drain along the back, 
 what would be the additional expense of draining them in the front ? 
 About 30s per house. 
 
 Would not the drainage be better carried off at the back? Yes, it 
 would, if the whole were always under the authority and control of the 
 Commissioners of Sewers; inasmuch as the force of the water would 
 be concentrated into one drain, instead of into several drains. 
 
 What size drain would you put down at the back? I would vary 
 the size from a 9 inch at the lower end, to a 4 inch at the upper end. 
 
 On the plan of repayment of principal and interest then in 30 years, 
 these drainage works might be accomplished for a rate of 3s. 3d. per 
 house, per annum, or less than Id. per week? Yes. After much con- 
 sideration, I am satisfied that the complete drainage of courts can be 
 accomplished for that sum. 
 
 You are aware that a constant supply of filtered water is provided to 
 each house, in some districts, and on a larger scale than in the metrop- 
 olis, for Id per week ? Yes, I am aware of it. 
 
 What would be the fair expense of emptying and filling up cess- 
 pools, and substituting an efficient soil-pan apparatus? About 21. per 
 house. 
 
 This then would add another halfpenny per week to the charge ; but 
 supersede the present charge of properly cleansing the cesspool ? Yes. 
 
 From these estimates, it appears that in superseding the old expen- 
 sive mode, which cost 141. per house, or about 4d. per week, if extend- 
 ed over a period of years, it is quite practicable for Id. per week to af- 
 ford complete drainage ; for another penny per week to add a constant 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 161 
 
 supply of water ; and, in fact, although it will require one halfpenny 
 per week more to get rid of the existing cesspools and other defects, 
 the whole may be accomplished for about half the cost of the bad 
 house drainage alone under the old system 1 Yes; the expenses of 
 dilapidation and cleansing form a serious expense, which would be 
 saved wilh the pipe system of drainage, and a proper and constant 
 supply of water. '"^1^*! 
 
 Would you build side entrances to a tubular system of sewers ; In 
 some situations I would do so ; but I believe their use, in some degree, 
 might be superseded. Means of access to the sewers, so as to be able 
 to get .at and remove accidental obstructions, would readily suggest 
 themselves. A shaft, having a strong movable grating on top, could 
 be built over the sewer, with ladder irons built in the angles, to admit 
 a man to go down and up, with a recess at the bottom, on one side, to 
 give room. This shaft may be also made to serve as a ventilator. 
 
 Plan and Section of Shaft. 
 ROADWAY. 
 
 Half plan top 
 =^ ofsWt. 
 
 Section on A A. 
 
 Plan. 
 
 From your experience it appears that the public may expect quite as 
 large a reduction in the expense of town drainage as by attention to 
 the forms and capacities of pipes for the discharge of water from land 
 
162 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 drainage where the one inch tubular drains has extensively superseded 
 the flat bottomed and upright sided drain with circular top so closely 
 resembling the -old form of sewer recently in use in the Westminster 
 Commission ? Yes, it is so. 
 
 What appears to you to be the evils resulting from the paving, the 
 sewerage, the supply of water, and the gas being divided ? The lay- 
 ing down, examining, and repairing of the water and gas pipes, the 
 laying of private drains, and the cleansing, repairing, building, and 
 rebuilding of the sewers necessarily involves the disturbance and mak- 
 ing good of the paving. After either of the last-mentioned bodies have 
 opened the ground, the officer informs the Paving Board of the posi- 
 tions and extent of the hole, which, after the work is done, is often, 
 notwithstanding the vigilance of the officers, filled in again without 
 being properly rammed down, and the stones are laid or thrown in 
 very carelessly. Each body cares very little about the property of the 
 other; and in consequence of the filling in of the ground being done 
 badly, the paviors have to throw it out again, in order to prepare a 
 sufficiently good foundation for the stones. 
 
 The filling in then, and the paving has to be done twice over 1 
 Yes ; the Is. 9d. per yard is supposed to cover the twice relaying, and 
 sometimes it is laid three and four times over, the work is done so 
 carelessly; the laying of the pipes of one Company very often inter- 
 feres with the pipes of another Company ; and the sewers and drains 
 have to be cut about, altered, and removed likewise. These things 
 are frequently attended with much expense and inconvenience. Some- 
 times the stones lie scattered about the streets for several days, and ac- 
 cidents ensue in consequence. The inhabitants and the passengers are 
 necessarily put to much inconvenience and trouble by this separation 
 of jurisdictions. I have repeatedly found that the execution of the 
 work, both of the paving and of a sewer, was not nearly so sound and 
 good, nor so speedily done as it might have been, had one body and 
 one contractor had the control and execution of the entire work. Now, 
 supposing a gas or water pipe were required to be laid down, repaired, 
 or protected, or a private drain to be put into the sewer, or the sewer 
 to be examined, cleansed, repaired, built, or rebuilt, if the whole of 
 these matters were under one Board, and a uniform system of manage- 
 ment, and one contractor for the whole, one intelligent officer on a 
 district would be able to pay attention to, and make arrangements for 
 any and all of these works at the same time ; and thus would a saving 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 163 
 
 of an enormous amount of time, labor, and expense, and prevention 
 of excessive annoyance and inconvenience to the public result from 
 such a consolidation, besides ensuring that the work would be done far 
 better. As it is, confusion and wasteful expenditure of money are the 
 result. Economy, public convenience and efficiency, therefore, as 
 regards the paving, the sewerage, and the supply of water and of gas, 
 point out the absolute necessity of combining the whole of these things 
 under the uniform control of one body, and set of officers. Until this 
 is done, I am confident that the sanitary condition of the metropolis 
 cannot be made what it ought to be and what the public have a right 
 to demand. 
 
 What description and size of drains are now used for the drainage of 
 houses ? Flat-bottomed square box and barrel drains of brick, and bad 
 bricks too, the lower halves of the drains almost, invariably put in with- 
 out any mortar or cement whatever. The bottom bricks, up to the 
 springing of the crowns of, circular drains, are mostly bedded in sand, 
 or fine dirt, or rubbish. I beg to submit these sections, showing the 
 mode of constructing the drains I have just described. 
 
 6d. per foot run, exclusive of digging. 
 
 Qd. per foot run, exclusive of digging. 
 
 lid. per foot run, exclusive of digging. 
 
 la 
 
 9 inches diameter Is. 4rf. per foot run. 
 
164 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 12 inches diameter 1*. 7d. per foot run. 
 
 (Bottom joints without mortar or cement.) 
 
 Would not a speculating builder blame his workmen for waste should 
 they put mortar into the lower joints of a brick drain? I have heard 
 very many of them do so. 
 
 But do not brick drains, of this description, very soon get out of order ? 
 Yes, so much so as never to get in order again ; as most of them are 
 constantly choking up, and as constantly requiring cleansing ; to which 
 must be added, the excessive annoyance as well as danger to the health 
 of the inhabitants. I have frequently found the foundations of houses 
 saturated with sewage water, in consequence of the defective state of 
 the drains of this description. The junctions of brick drains are almost 
 always formed at right angles. The admission of one stream into an- 
 other should be by a uniform curve line. 
 
 Have you seen tubular drains in operation? Yes, I have ; and they 
 keep remarkably clean. I recollect seeing tubular drains of three inches 
 or so in diameter, that had been in use for a number of years, and 
 finding them as clean as when they were first put down ; while other 
 large brick drains close by, from houses of the same size and descrip- 
 tion, were choking up with filth. The fat from kitchens and sculleries 
 is not liable to condense and collect in small glazed drains as it does in 
 large brick drains, as the smoothness of the surface and the retention 
 of heat, and the greater power of the water, would prevent it from 
 sticking to the bottom and sides. 
 
 For common brick drains, then, you would substitute glazed stone- 
 ware pipes'? Yes, of course. With much smaller tubular drains than 
 the brick drains now in use, the hydraulic pressure and force of the 
 water, from being concentrated, are very much increased, and so it 
 acts with more effect in carrying the filth with it. The resistance from 
 friction, too, of the surfaces of glazed stone-ware tubular drains is con* 
 siderably less than from a brick drain. The flow, therefore, is much 
 quickened, and, as an ordinary sized vessel, such as a pail, would 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 165 
 
 completely fill a small pipe with water, much force would thus be 
 brought to bear, which can never be attainable with a larger pipe, one- 
 half of which is, in most cases, filled with air. 
 
 Should not all house-drains be trapped (o prevent a current of air 
 passing through them? Yes; it is absolutely necessary to do so ac- 
 cording to the present arrangement^and construction of drains and of 
 sewers, without proper and concentrated supplies of water to keep 
 them thoroughly washed out. But, under a complete system of drain- 
 age and sewerage combined, with constant and well regulated supplies 
 of water, I should think it unnecessary, except in special cases, to trap 
 drains at all, inasmuch as there would be no decomposition of matter 
 within them, and consequently no foul emanations would be evolved. 
 
 Whatform and sizes of drains would you propose to use for the drain- 
 age of houses in lieu of the present brick drains'? Glazed stone-ware 
 tubular drains, of 3, 4, 5, and six inches in diameter, and in 24 inch 
 lengths, as shown by these sketches. 
 
 Cost per foot run, irrespective of diggirg. 
 
 In what way would you form the junctions of tubular drains with 
 each other, and also with the sewers'? By bends, and canted and 
 curved junctions, as shown by these sketches. By a combination of 
 the straight tubes and the junctions the most efficient drainage can be 
 formed. The junctions with the straight tubes can be made of any re- 
 quired diameter. 
 
 a, b, c,d, e,f. Single and double square, oblique, and carted junctions for introducing branch 
 
 drains into main ones. 
 
166 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 g, h } i, Curves for changing the direction of drains . 
 
 k I. Junctions for introducing perpendicular drains into the sides, as well as of branch 
 drains into the top of horizontal ones . 
 
 m. Junction for admitting two branch 
 diains into the top of a main one. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 167 
 
 An efficient water-closet could be made with 
 stone-ware, glazed pan and trap, of this 
 form. A pipe from the water supply pipe 
 of the house can be fitted to it, to scour both 
 it and the drain. 
 
 What would be the expense 'of the tubular 
 drains of the sizes you propose, as compared 
 with the brick drains 1 Tubular stone-ware 
 glazed drains, of 3, 4, 5 and six inches diam- 
 eter, would cost respectively, 5d., 6d., 7d., 
 and Sd, per foot run, and the brick drains 
 6d, 9d., lid., Is. 4d. and Is. 7d. per foot run, irrespective of digging. 
 Small tubular drains, however, can be laid through houses for about 
 one-half the expense of brick drains; that is, according to the prices 
 as charged for the brick drains in builders' accounts. 
 
 Have you considered of the ventilation of sewers 1 Yes, I attempt- 
 ed to awaken the attention of the Court to the subject of the ventila- 
 tion of sewers in my report on Marylebone, but it was struck out of 
 that report by order of the Court. The following is the part struck out : 
 
 " The plan consists in placing and distributing over the sewers, and 
 in the most convenient situations, a number of distinct and separate 
 downcast and upcast shafts, to be carried some height above the sur- 
 face, with a furnace in each" of the latter. The air, in passing out of 
 the sewers, and through the furnaces, would become highly rarified, 
 and freed of the noxious gases with which it was charged in the sew- 
 ers, and in this manner rapidly ascending columns of heated air would 
 be produced, whose place would be immediately filled up with a sup- 
 ply of cold fresh air from the surface through the downcast shafts, and 
 as it passes along the sewers, the deleterious exhalations would be car- 
 ried to the furnaces, there to be consumed, and the air purified, before 
 ascending into the atmosphere, in a similar manner to that of the best 
 ventilated coal mines." 
 
 On a system of tubular sewers, with regulated supplies of water, 
 would not the case for the ventilation of the sewers be largely altered ? 
 Yes, as regards ventilation, it wouM be very materially altered. 
 There would be no deposit, no stagnant decomposition, besides the 
 water itself would create a current of air. 
 
 A supply of cold water would moreover check decomposition? Of 
 course it would ; I have 'had scattered observations of sewage water 
 mixing with clean cold running water which confirms this view. 
 
168 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Under such a system, would not the pressure of the gases on valves 
 and traps be greatly diminished 1 Yes, I believe it would. This, how- 
 ever, is unimportant. 
 
 You cannot at present, perhaps, express an opinion as to (he extent 
 of the additional supplies of water requisite for keeping the sewers 
 clean? Nine times the present supply would probably not be too 
 much, so that they may keep themselves clean. If a complete system 
 of flushing were adopted, perhaps the present supply might be suffi- 
 cient for the purpose. But I would prefer narrowing the bottoms of 
 the present sewers, by bedding channel tiles along the bottoms, and so 
 concentrating the flow, that the sewers may keep themselves clean, to 
 using mechanical means at all, as such a course of proceeding would 
 be far more economical in the end ; although, at the same time, I am 
 sure, that some of the sewers could not be kept clean without flushing. 
 I should think that if the present supply was doubled, and the pipes 
 kept constantly charged, that quantity would be found sufficient for 
 all the purposes required. We may be very sure that expense of ad- 
 ditional supplies of water for the cleansing of drains and sewers would 
 not be so great as the expense of cleansing them by hand labor and 
 cartage ; and there is a point for consideration, which might be ascer- 
 tained by rriPiins of the survey whether some of the upland streams 
 might not be so diverted and distributed, as to be made available for 
 keeping a constant flow of water throughout the sewers, and diminish- 
 ing the quantity of pipe-water required for that purpose. Of all the 
 questions connected with the sanitary improvement of the metropolis, 
 I believe that of supplying every part of it with a never-ceasing flow 
 of pure spring water, stands paramount. Nothing, I think 3 would tend 
 to increase the cleanliness and health of the people, so much as con- 
 stantly pouring down from the more elevated parts of the metropolis, 
 copious and clear streams of pure water, so as to have a perpetual sup- 
 ply to every house, arid a perpetual flow through every drain and 
 sewer. In proportion as the supply is more or less abundant, so is 
 general cleanliness and health affected accordingly. 
 
 You have given in to the Court of Sewers, a plan for the drainage 
 of the depressed district of All Souls, in the parish of Marylebone ; 
 what is your estimate of the expense of draining that district? About 
 20,000/. ; that is for an entire reconstruction of the sewers. The area 
 of this district is equal to about 130 acres. 
 
 But still it is for a construction of sewers on the intermittent system 
 of supply, and with sewers sufficiently large for men to pass through 
 them ? Yes. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 169 
 
 What number of houses are there in that district 1 About 3000 
 houses. 
 
 .That is to say, the cost of rebuilding the sewers, will be nearly 11. 
 per house? Yes. 
 
 But inasmuch as upon an improved plan of sewers, the expense of 
 new sewers may be reduced more than one-half, to proceed at present, 
 is to subject each house (or other districts who derive no benefit from 
 the drainage work,) to a tax of 3/. 10s per house, for a drainage which 
 would be less efficient? Yes, that is so; and moreover, the house 
 drainage on the district is very bad, almost every house % having a cess- 
 pool ; and the saving on the house drainage on an improved plan 
 would be as great as the saving from an improved sewerage with the 
 constant supply of water. 
 
 What would the expense of the reconstruction of the sewers in the 
 district of All Souls have been under the old custom of building sewers 
 with upright sides? Full as much again, or 40,000/., instead of 
 20,000/., and far less efficient. 
 
 Suppose that there is now some sort of sewerage in a street, court or 
 alley, and that the owner of a house wishes to put down a house drain, 
 at what expense may he do it? Ten shillings for the opening into the 
 sewer, and the first three feet of drain. That he will have to pay to 
 the Commissioners. But beyond this, he would have to take out a li- 
 cense to open the ground, and pay the surveyor of pavements Is. 9d. 
 per yard for as much of the carriage-way, and 3s. per yard for as much 
 of the foot-way as he removed, and he might perhaps remove three 
 yards of both. 
 
 Are not the new sewers now generally driven through the streets, 
 leaving the inhabitants to provide house drains as they may? Yes, 
 such has hitherto been the case; but the recent Westminster Sewers' 
 Act, 10th and 1 Ith of Victoria, chapter 70, empowers the Commis- 
 sioners of Sewers, to order the owner or occupier of any house, situate 
 within 100 feet of a sewer, to drain such house at his expense, by con- 
 tinuing such sewer up to, and along the entire frontage of the house 
 and premises; and by constructing a covered drain to lead from such 
 house to such sewer, in such manner as the said Commissioners shall 
 order and direct; and also, when there shall already be a sewer in front 
 of any house, adapted to the drainage thereof, then the Commissioners 
 shall order and direct the owner or occupier to construct a covered 
 drain to lead thereto and connect therewith; and also, under certain 
 regulations, to contribute a just sum towards the expense of the original 
 
170 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 construction of the sewer ; and upon refusal or neglect to construct such 
 sewer and drain, the said Commissioners are empowered to construct 
 the same, arid to recover the expenses by distress, under their own 
 hands. The Commissioners of Sewers are also empowered by this 
 Act, wherever and whenever it shall appear to them to be necessary to 
 do so, to stop up every street, road, court, place, &c., where no sewer 
 previously existed, and to build sewers along the same, and the cost of 
 making such sewers, shall be borne (according to regulations) by the 
 several owners of the lands and tenements, abutting on the streets or 
 ways under which the sewers are made. After the completion of the 
 sewers so built, the Commissioners can call upon and enforce the owners 
 to lay drains from the houses into the sewers ; but it is doubtful, should 
 the Commissioners do this part of the work, whether they cnn charge 
 the cost thereof upon the owners or occupiers, or include it in the 
 amount payable for the sewer. 
 
 Is notice given to the inhabitants Yes, we have done so recently in 
 our district. 
 
 But is it not the practice that the house drains are put in by private 
 builders, or by the contractors ? Yes, we have exercised no control as 
 to who shall do the work. 
 
 At what expense are they usually put in ? I have known the 
 charges to be most exorbitant ; and when referred to, have advised the 
 inhabitants not to pay them. 
 
 What has been the usual charge ? Various, from four shillings to 
 eight shillings a foot. 
 
 What might have been the charge per foot, if the house drainage 
 had been included under the same contract as the sewer? From two 
 shillings and upwards, and perhaps as far as four shillings ; but gene- 
 rally one-half what is now charged. 
 
 And under a proper system that half, distributed over a period of 
 years would greatly reduce the obstacles to drainage ? Yes. 
 
 Under whose direction are the drains for conveying away the surface 
 water of the streets put in, cleansed, and repaired ? Under the direc- 
 tion of the Court of Sewers. 
 
 Of what material, and in what manner, do you construct them ? 
 The following order of Court was confirmed in 1839, and is still in 
 force : 
 
 " Regulations for Gully Drains adjoining Arched Sewers. 
 
 " That the following be the form of gully and road drains. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 Transverse Section. 
 
 171 
 
 That whenever a new gully shall be constructed, the, bottom of the 
 same be sloped with stone, rising at the back, two-thirds of the width of 
 the gully ; and that whenever an old gully shall be opened for cleans- 
 ing or repairing, the bottom of which may not be so sloped, the said 
 bottom be taken up and relaid in the manner above described." 
 
 Sixteen-inch barrel drains, half-brick thick, were used for some time 
 previous to March, 1846, as an experiment; since then I have been 
 allowed, also as an experiment, to construct them of terro-metallic and 
 glazed stone-ware pipes of six inches and nine inches diameter. The 
 annexed plans and sections show the mode I have adopted in con- 
 structing them. 
 
 Section of Gully Drain from Grating to Sewer. 
 
172 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Transverse Section of Gully and 
 Grating on A. B. 
 
 KIRB 
 
 Plan of Gully and Grating. 
 
 CO 
 
 PLAN 
 
 Longitudinal Section of Gully and Grating on C. D. 
 
 Front View of Flap. 
 
 Section of Drain and Flap at Vent. 
 
 I was led to recommend the adoption of this mode of construction 
 from the following causes : In passing through the sewers I found, 
 lying opposite the vents of a large number of the gully drains, heaps 
 of stones, and all kinds of street refuse, which it was utterly impossi- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 173 
 
 ble for the water to remove. The dams thus formed caused the sew- 
 age to accumulate behind them, and the noxious effluvia evolved from 
 the decomposing matter escaped into the streets by the gullies, and oc- 
 casioned much of the annoyance felt by passengers. The best remedy 
 for this evil appeared to me to be to prevent the stones and street re- 
 fuse from passing into the sewers, to build the drains so tbat they could 
 not choke up, and to prevent the emission of foul air from the sewers 
 into the streets by the gullies. We have accomplished these things 
 most perfectly, by reducing the width of the spaces to J inch between 
 the bars of the gully grates, by constructing the drtuns of the form 
 shown by the section from the gully to the sewer, and by fixing at the 
 vent an air-tight cast-iron valve or flap, hung with shackles. I have 
 a drawing here (exhibiting the same), which shows a grating of trellis- 
 work or cullender placed under the top grating, at the bottom of the 
 box, for the purpose of catching small stones and rubbish that may 
 pass between the bars of the grate above, and so to prevent them from 
 falling into and choking up the sewers. I have not, as yet, made use 
 of the lower grating, but probably, I should be induced to do so in 
 connection with a tubular system of sewers, as it is important to keep 
 large and heavy substances and refuse out of the drains and sewers. I 
 may state that as a proof of the efficacy of the foregoing mode of con- 
 structing the gully-drains with the improved grate, the labor and ex- 
 pense of cleaning, not only of the gully-drains, but of the sewers as 
 well, is now, comparatively speaking, nothing compared to what they 
 used to be, and I confidently entertain an opinion that the labor and 
 expense will be still less and less. Upwards of two thousand gully- 
 drains have either been built or rebuilt of the improved form during 
 the last two years, and not one of them, that I am aware of, has as 
 yet required to be cleansed, and I believe that there is no likelihood of 
 their choking up. 
 
 Is not it also desirable that the inlets, if not to all, at least to the 
 greater part of the house-drains built on the tubular system should be 
 protected with fixed gratings or cullenders to prevent large substances 
 from getting into them'? Yes ; I was about to state that. 
 
 Would not yon, after a time, be induced to use smaller pipes for 
 gully drains than those you are now using'? Yes. I am of opinion 
 that three, four, and five inches diameter pipes laid properly, or in the 
 manner shown by the previous section, are, generally speaking, of 
 ample size to receive and carry off the surface water of the streets. In 
 
174 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 some situations, however, it may be found desirable to use pipes of 
 larger diameter, for instance, where the depth and fall are but little, 
 or at the bottom of steep declivities. 
 
 With constant and regulated streams of water, with matter as heavy 
 as road grit or sand to pass into the sewers, would you not be able to 
 keep the sewers clean? Knowing the evils resulting from road grit and 
 road refuse generally finding their way into the sewers, I should be dis- 
 posed not to allow such matter to be carried off by that means. The 
 road scrapings contain a large proportion of sandy and clayey matter, 
 which, combined together, and allowed to deposit, forms an almost 
 irremovable conglomerate at the bottoms of the sewers, and which no 
 flush of water will remove of itself. But, if the streams were strong, 
 large, and constant, I should then see no objection to such mode of re- 
 moving the road scrapings. To prevent such matter from depositing, 
 however, the force of the body of water must, in all cases, be pro- 
 portioned to the weight of the substances to be removed. 
 
 It is of importance that the streets should be kept well swept and 
 clean ? I must say that although there is an evident tendency in some 
 districts to keep the streets well swept, in other districts they are 
 shamefully neglected in this respect. I have found the sewers choked 
 up more in districts where the sweeping of the streets was neglected, 
 than where attention was paid to them. There will always be con- 
 flicting causes and effects in the sewerage, the paving and the cleans- 
 ing of the streets, until the whole be put under one body and system 
 of management. 
 
 Do not you receive complaints that the small gully-grates choke 
 up? Yes, we do. My answer to the complainants is this, "Keep 
 your streets in good order, and well swept of the filth and refuse lying 
 scattered about them, then the gully-grates would not choke up. I 
 have greatly improved the working of the sewers by reducing the ap- 
 ertures leading to them, and I am not going to undo what I have done, 
 merely to suit your neglect and antiquated notions of street cleansing, 
 by allowing the refuse to pass into the gullies and the sewers, there to 
 accumulate until they become entirely choked up, when, at last, it has 
 to be removed by a very expensive and inconvenient process. You 
 have many able-bodied youths and men in your work-houses. Now 3 
 give a few of the well-disposed of them, a few hours relaxation from 
 being stewed up in close rooms, oakum picking every day, by sending 
 them with trucks, brooms, shovels, and other instruments, to sweep the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 175 
 
 streets, pick up the refuse, and clear the spaces between the bars of 
 the gully-gratings." 
 
 Have you any observations to make to this Commission'? I have 
 only this to state, that all I have said, and all I have done, has been 
 solely for the public good. I may, in the course of my examination, 
 have made use of expressions that may be considered harsh towards 
 individual Commissioners, and to the Court itself, but I can honestly 
 say, that I am not, nor have I been, actuated by any vindictive and 
 improper feelings towards any. To remedy the m^ny glaring and 
 grievous evils which existed, was worth the attempt on my part. It 
 has always been my endeavor to bear the opposition, the bitter taunts, 
 the sarcasms, and the insult, if I may so term it, which have been 
 heaped upon me by some of the Commissioners, in consequence of so 
 doing, with forbearance and good will. It is, however, extremely 
 wearing and harrassing to bear with it. I have been only four years 
 in the employ of the Court, and, although now a young man, I feel 
 that my spirits and strength are much weakened I feel at least 10 
 years older than when I entered its service. It is my firm intention, 
 should the construction of the Court be continued as it now is, to resign 
 my appointment. I have long felt that I was injuring myself in stay- 
 ing with them. It is utterly impossible for any right minded man, 
 having a strict regard for himself and family, and the public service, 
 to continue with a body so totally incompetent to manage the great and 
 important works committed to their care and control. The system is 
 radically wrong and rotten to the core, it is eating into the vitals of the 
 population, and it is not to be expected that men who have been the 
 means of making it so, will now turn round and act energetically, in 
 order to correct and remedy, or rather break up, what they have been 
 so long doing badly. It is their forte, as is apparent every day, to 
 meet every proposition for improvement, if not with direct and deter- 
 mined opposition, at least with all manner of frivolous and vexatious 
 interferences. They look upon sanitary improvement as a whim, and 
 an ephemera. Looking to their own interest only, and with every 
 comfort in their own homes, they little know, and care less, for the 
 privations of the poor. There is disease and danger lurking at every 
 man's door, and who knows how soon the destroyer may come. Un- 
 fortunately, the visitation falls on those who are least able to bear the 
 burden ; the poor are the principal sufferers, in consequence of the 
 neglect of the rich. Avert the danger while yet there is lime. Root 
 
176 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 up the present demoralizing system, and establish another and a better 
 system on a firm and equitable basis. 
 
 No. 14. 
 
 CAPTAIN BAGUE, R. N. 
 
 You act occasionally as chairman of the Westminister Court of 
 Sewers? I have been in the habit of attending the Court from, I 
 should say, the first moment I came into the Commission, and I scarcely 
 or ever have missed a meeting. Latterly, when Mr. Donaldson and 
 Mr. Willoughby gave up the chairmanship, from my constant attend- 
 ance, and perhaps knowing a little of the routine of the business, as I 
 came into the Court the Commissioners who were then present, thought 
 proper to do me ihe honor, if I may say so, of electing me chairman 
 for the day. I believe that occurred on the 17th of February, 1846, 
 and for the last year I have never missed a meeting in giving my at- 
 tendance as chairman. I may also say, that from time to time, the 
 Commissioners have been satisfied with the manner in which I have 
 carried on the business of the Court, and also have been pleased to ex- 
 press the approbation of the way in which I have conducted the business. 
 
 Have you read the printed copies of the examinations taken here, 
 which the Commissioners requested you might have an opportunity of 
 reading ? I have . 
 
 Do you wish to present to the Commissioners any observations in re- 
 lalion to them? No, I do not, I think what I have read is a very 
 well drawn up statement, both on the part of the clerk and on the part 
 of the surveyor. I think, generally speaking, it is a manly straight- 
 forward piece of evidence which I think does them great honor and 
 great credit. 
 
 So far as facts may come within your knowledge, there is no point 
 upon which you feel inclined, from your own observation, to give any 
 contradiction to the evidence which they have given upon oath 1 I 
 should say not. I have been a very close observer of the conduct of 
 the Commissioners of Sewers. Gentlemen present must be aware that 
 looking to them as a large body of men collected together, and in a 
 great measure connected with each other, it would be a hard matter to 
 say any thing more than the clerk and surveyor have said. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 177 
 
 It was stated that you had, upon one occasion, or some occasions, 
 reproved Commissioners for taking part in relation to works in which 
 they had a direct trading or personal interest? There is one section in 
 the Act of Parliament that my attention was particularly drawn to; 
 and I distinctly told the Commissioner referred to, that, before he en- 
 tered irpon the question, he must observe that he was a party interested 
 in that question ; and I begged he would not, for a moment, enter 
 into the discussion, or give his vote, when the time arrived. On the 
 first occasion he retired ; but, on the second occasion, ite a rather flip- 
 pant way he said, Oh, as to that, he did not care about what the 
 chairman said ; there was no fine agttinst him for voting on the ques- 
 tion ; and that he should, in fact, do as he pleased. 
 
 Mr. Phillips has complained of his works, and his propositions being 
 dealt with with some degree of temper as if arising from rival schemes 
 or rival interests, and that he has had interruptions which an officer 
 intending to promote economy or submit improvements tending to save 
 public money and to increase the efficiency of the works ought not to 
 have met with. So far as you have observed, do you think him en- 
 titled fairly to make such a complaint? I could not say honestly and 
 fairly that any thing has come out at the Court to warrant my answer- 
 ing that question in the affirmative as to rival schemes; but I am quite 
 aware that obstructions are thrown in his way. It would not be right, 
 perhaps, in me to mention any Commissioner's name in this matter; 
 but I know he has had a great deal to contend with. Mr. Leslie, one 
 of the Commissioners, brought him under the notice of the Court, and 
 recommended him very strongly, being, I believe, quite unacquainted 
 with Mr. Phillips, except that he was cognizant of his ability as a 
 person quite adequate to undertake the surveyorship of the Commission. 
 If I may be allowed to speak of him, though in his presence, and to 
 mete out the praise to him, which this being a public question is no 
 more than he deserves, as far as I have observed his conduct and his 
 attention to his duties, I can honestly and safely say that I do not 
 think, though there may be his equal, there is his superior in the sta- 
 tion he is moving in. I am quite aware that the evidence which Mr. 
 Phillips and our clerk have given, may cause pain to some of the Com- 
 missioners ; but as I observed before, I think both the clerk and the 
 surveyor have given their evidence in such a straightforward way, that 
 there can only be one opinion upon the subject of it, namely, that it 
 will be for the public good and for the benefit of the public service. 
 
178 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 No. 15. 
 SIR GEORGE PHILLIPS, BART., M.P. 
 
 The Commissioners understand that you are able to give them some 
 evidence in regard to the difficulties experienced by an owner of pro- 
 perty in obtaining sufficient drainage for his house. Will you have 
 the kindness to state the particulars of the case to which you refer? I 
 am the owner of a range of stables in Farm street mews, over which 
 there is a dwelling-house. The stables were taken on a building lease 
 by a stable-keeper. I came into possession of them two years ago. I 
 found that there was a great want of ventilation, and particularly that 
 there was no drainage to carry off the contents of the stable. There 
 were tw^privies, and all the filth from the house and the stables nlso. 
 
 In a cesspool ? Yes ; I believe there were two or three cesspools. I 
 saw that they were in a very filthy state, and I ordered my builder im- 
 mediately to put a proper drain to the house to carry off the refuse. He 
 wrote me word that this was done, but as soon as I came to London I 
 was told by the Surveyor of Pavements in St. George's, Hanover 
 square, that the parish would bring an action against me if I did not 
 remove this drain which my builder had made into the only place into 
 which it could discharge itself, an open gutter .which goes down the 
 mews. Upon this I asked him where I was to put it ; as the premises 
 were in really an unhealthy state before this drain was made. He said 
 very properly, no doubt, upon his part that he was not to tell me 
 what I was to do, but what I was not to do ; that I must not put this 
 drain into the open gutter. I applied to know whether the Commis- 
 sioners would give a drain through the whole of the mews, which was 
 very necessary, but. they declined doing so, I think, unless everybody 
 in the mews would agree to pay their share of the drain. I said that I 
 could only answer for myself; in consequence nothing was done. I 
 was anxious to get a proper drain, and I applied to my next door 
 neighbor, who has a very large range of livery stables, and he told 
 me that he should be very glad to co-operate with me, and bear his 
 share of the expense, if the drain were made. Upon which I said 
 that I would undertake to do it if he would co-operate, he owning 
 really the most extensive premises there. I was just upon the point of 
 having the drain commenced by my own builder, when the livery 
 stable keeper said that he found it was much more expensive than he 
 expected, and he declined performing his promise. So that I am left 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 179 
 
 in this situation : I must drain for the whole neighborhood, or else the 
 Commissioners *ought to make the drain themselves, and force every 
 owner of premises in the mews (which I believe they have the power 
 of doing under the new Act) to contribute their quota towards the ex- 
 penses of the drain. This they refused to do. They will not make 
 the drain themselves, compelling- those to pay who ought to pay. I 
 say, li I will do it myself, if you will perform your part, and force my 
 neighbors to pay me their share." That they say they will not do. 
 The third alternative was, I said, " If they will not pay for this drain 
 themselves, I am willing to make a common surface drain large enough 
 to carry off all the filth from my premises at my own expense." That, 
 also, they say they will not permit. I am threatened with an action, 
 and the only thing that I, as an individual, can do, the Commissioners 
 say they will not allow me to do. 
 
 What is the total expense? I believe it will be somewhere near 
 200. 
 
 For draining what distance? I should think a couple of hundred 
 yards ; my own premises being a very small part of that ,200. 
 
 How many occupations would that drain serve for ? The main party 
 who would benefit by it is this owner of the stables. He has a large 
 house, and stables, I should think, of from fifty to one hundred stalls, 
 besides two or three houses, which are let, over the front of the stables. 
 
 Supposing the Commissioners had power to make the drain, and dis- 
 tribute the expense by a yearly payment over thirty years, then of 
 course you would have found very little difficulty in inducing your 
 neighbors to contribute ? I doubt whether any inducement would ope- 
 rate upon them, except it was backed by the force of law. If a man 
 promises to pay, and then when the work is about to be done, comes 
 and tells me he retracts his promise, I have no very great hope of his 
 paying any thing unless compelled. 
 
 His promise was that he would pay immediately a share of a work 
 which was to last for the use of tenants in future time? Yes. 
 
 Did the Commissioners assign any reason for not acceding to your 
 request? I could not see them to-day. I went at the usual timp of 
 their sitting; I believe between eleven and twelve. I sent in my 
 namp, and the reply was, that they would see ma in rny turn. I said, 
 " How soon will that turn come?" They said, " We can tell you 
 nothing about that ; there are about fifty names before you." I asked 
 them when the next Board day was. They said, " A fortnight hence." 
 12 
 
ISO MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 I thought it was a very extraordinary circumstance <hat they should 
 meet only once a- fortnight, when they had upwards of fifty people 
 waiting- to see them. This is an account of the way in which my 
 builder was treated, contained in a letter to myself: 
 
 "London, October 2d, 1847. 
 
 " SIR I beg to inform you that yesterday, being a Court-day at the 
 office of the Commissioners of Sewers, I attended both in the morning 
 and afternoon. I first saw the surveyor, and explained the case to 
 him. He desired I would prepare a written application to submit to 
 the Board, which I did, (I have inclosed you a copy of the same.) 
 When before the Commissioners, I urged upon them the necessity of 
 taking this case into consideration, and begged they would themselves 
 construct the sewer, as they had the power by the new Act to oblige 
 each person, whose premises fronted the same, to pay their share of the 
 expense, or to charge it to the district ; whereas, if you built it, it 
 would be considered a private sewer ; and requested them to inform 
 me how you were to act to prevent an indictment for a nuisance when 
 not allowed a drainage. '1 hey treated the application with the great- 
 est indifference, refused to build the sewer, and when I pressed the 
 chairman for a direct answer to your application, he said you must 
 abide by the Act of Parliament, which was, in reality, no answer at 
 all. Allow me to observe, that it was distressing to witness the man- 
 ner in which various applications were treated by the Commissioners, 
 some similar to your own case, and others much worse ; they treated 
 them with the greatest contempt, throwing them aside like waste 
 paper, and one of the body said he wished c members of Parliament 
 would pass an Act to prevent persons sending them petitions.' I have 
 looked carefully over the new Act relating to sewers, and find every- 
 thing has been done that is possible to enable the Commissioners to 
 cause all nuisances to be removed, and to afford to every one a proper 
 drainage ; but such Acts are useless when the persons are not compe- 
 tent to carry out the same. 
 
 " I have the honor to be, Sir, 
 
 " Your obedient servant, 
 
 " THOMAS WATTS. ?? 
 
 The following is the communication which my builder, at my desire, 
 made to the Commissioners : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 181 
 
 " 2 South stret r Grosvenor square, 
 " October 1st, 1847. 
 
 GENTLEMEN: I beg to inform you that I am instructed by G. R. 
 Phillips, Esq., M.P., No. 12, Hill street, who has a stable building 
 in Farm street Mews, to renew his application made so you about sis 
 months back to form a sewer down the said mews, or 10 allow him to 
 make a drain from his stables to the nearest existing sewer. Allow me 
 to remind you that he has only a surface drainage either from the 
 stables or water-closet, and has received a notice of indictment from 
 the parish if this nuisance is not immediately put a stop to. I beg to 
 state that, should you consider it expedient to construct a sewer, instead 
 of allowing Mr. Phillips to form a drain, he is willing to pay the ex- 
 pense of the sewer the extreme length of his frontage. Trusting, 
 under these circumstances, you will not allow any further delay to take 
 place, 
 
 " I have the honor to be, Gentlemen, 
 
 " Your obedient servant, 
 
 " THOMAS WATTS." 
 
 Is there any common sewer near this drain? At each end of the 
 mews there is a very good sewer, and it is only making one main sewer 
 through the mews, and that would completely drain the whole place. 
 
 Were your neighbors leaseholders or tenants-at-will, or what was 
 the nature of their occupation ? I should think the stable-keeper must 
 have a long building lease, as he has been laying out a great deal upon 
 the premises. 
 
 Persons would have to contribute in different degrees of interest, pro- 
 bably ? One side of the mews consists of the rear of the houses in 
 Hill street. I think there is only one of those that requires a drainage. 
 From my own house in Hill street the drain goes into the sewer in Hill 
 street. If something be not done, my only course will be to restore 
 the old cesspools, which I should be very unwilling to do. 
 
 What is the length of the drain required 1 I think it must be about 
 two hundred yards. 
 
 Annual installments of 14 or .15, if distributed over the whole par- 
 ies interested, would fall comparatively lightly, and be little or no 
 object 1 I should think so. I am sure it ought to do so. 
 
182 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The only reason why you could not get co-operation was the ex- 
 pense ? Yes. 
 
 And that expense to be immediately paid 1 Yes, of course. 
 
 No. 16. 
 MR. G. WILSON. 
 
 You were the secretary of the Board of Health for the parish of St. 
 Margaret and St. John, Westminster, at the time of the cholera? 
 Yes, I was honorary secretary. 
 
 Did you visit the district at the time? Yes, I did. 
 
 Do you know the present condition of the laboring population of the 
 parish ? Yes, I do. 
 
 In respect to drainage and sewage water supply, and tbe means of 
 cleansing, how far do you consider that it is altered ? With respect to 
 the greater proportion of the parish, I believe it is exactly as it was; 
 from Palace street down York street and Tothill street, with the streets 
 branching out right and left therefrom, there was, and there is, no- 
 thing but a surface drainage. The basements of the houses lie several 
 feet below that surface drainage, and in order to get rid of the offensive 
 liquids, the inhabitants of the houses pump it from the basements into 
 the streets. In many cases, the pumps draw up the matter from the 
 cesspools into the street. In Palace street they pump up the soil into 
 the street ; and there it lies until the godsend of a shower clears it 
 away. We feel for the people, because they cannot inhabit the base- 
 ment floors, unless they do this. But this is the condition of a street 
 close to the Palace, and of occupants of a property which belongs to 
 the Crown. 
 
 Are other parts of Westminster in an equally bad condition? I own 
 some houses in Dartmouth street, and my tenants are obliged to do the 
 same. I think many parts of the district would be uninhabitable, but 
 that there is a substratum of gravel through which the offensive liquids 
 percolate. 
 
 What is the condition of the wells in Westminster ? Really it would 
 be wpll not to think about that, or we should deteriorate the property 
 of the district. 
 
 Have there not been any new sewers made there? Yes, in some 
 parts of the parishes, but they have been productive of very little ben- 
 efit. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 183 
 
 Do they emit offensive smells'? Yes, and it has been a frequent 
 question with the paving- Board, whether they should he trapped, as 
 the exhalations from them are very offensive. These sewers, since 
 their formation, have been very little used, from the fact that the poor 
 property is not able to pay the sum demanded for permission to enter 
 them. 
 
 Has the parish paid sewer rates I Yes, for centuries, but has derived 
 very little benefit iherefrom. 
 
 No. 17. 
 
 DAVID HENRY STABLE, ESQ., Clerk to the Holborn and Finsbury 
 Division of Sewers, and JOHN ROE, ESQ., Surveyor. 
 
 What is the state of your surveys in the Holborn and Finsbury Di- 
 vision of Sewers? (Mr. Stable.) Since the issuing of the present 
 Commission in 1837, we have been constantly at work amending our 
 old plans and making new ones. The Surveyor began, during the last 
 year, a compiled plan of two districts, showing thereon all the main 
 lines and the collateral branches, also all the courts and alleys. This 
 general plan has been engraved and distributed. 
 
 (To Mr. Roe.) From what materials was this plan compiled? 
 From materials found in the office with corrections where new buildings 
 had been constructed. 
 
 On what scale has this been prepared ? Ten chains to the inch. 
 
 How were the old plans made up? (Mr. Stable.) By actual sur- 
 vey of Captain Ogle, architect and surveyor, compiled twenty-seven 
 years ago. When my colleague, Mr. Lush, and myself, were ap- 
 pointed joint clerks in 1812, the Commissioners possessed no office in 
 which to transact the business of the Commission, nor were there any 
 books, plans, or records, except Minute-books of the Court, a few 
 presentments of juries, and rate-books; soon after our appointment, 
 upon our representation to the Commissioners of the serious inconve- 
 nience the public was sustaining for want of an established place of 
 business, an office was taken in Hatton garden, where daily attendance 
 has ever since been given to receive applications and complaints, and 
 thereby enabling the officers of the Commission to conduct its affairs 
 with order and regularity. Previously to this time the meetings of the 
 Commissions were held at the sessions-house and sometimes at a tavern, 
 and the business conducted at the private office of the clerk. 
 
184 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 (To Mr. Roe.) Has there not since then been considerable alterations 
 in the surface in respect to the levels? Yes, there have, in various 
 localities been considerable alterations in the surface. 
 
 Do you consider this general plan sufficient to go on with 1 No, not 
 the general plan ; the scale is certainly too small for a working plan : 
 it serves at present as a plan of reference for the Commissioners at 
 their meetings. 
 
 Have you cross sections of the main lines and branches of your sew- 
 ers ? Yes, we have cross sections of all the main lines, and of all the 
 known branches. In the older districts we are finding occasionally 
 sewers and drains not laid down in the office plans. 
 
 What is the state of your present plans in relation to courts and 
 alleys'? In the district plans which are prepared to a larger scale than 
 the general plan, and which relate to the proportion of the district 
 which is rated, all the courts and alleys, and the divisions of the houses, 
 are shown. 
 
 Are the drains or sewers of the courts and alleys laid down? All 
 the known sewers or drains are. 
 
 Is there not much that is unknown ? Yes, there is ; I am, how- 
 ever, proceeding with an inquiry as to the state of the courts and alleys 
 within my districts. 
 
 Notwithstanding your existing materials, would it not be an economy 
 to have a plan upon a large scale for this district, as well as for the 
 whole of the metropolis? Yes ; I think it would be of great import- 
 ance to have a plan on one large scale for the whole of the metropolis, 
 and that it should be governed by one law. 
 
 (Mr. Stable.) In that I also cordially concur, as I consider it would 
 be a matter of great importance. 
 
 Will you not require more outlets and main lines of drainage ? (Mr. 
 Roe.) Yes, I am preparing a report to show that more main lines will 
 be required. 
 
 Under the existing state of things, will not two or more independent 
 authorities have to concur, not only in the expediency of those lines, 
 but two or more sets of independent officers have to superintend the 
 execution ? Yes. 
 
 May not two or more independent authorities determine, if they so 
 think fit, to have a different form of sewer for the discharge of the same 
 run of water through -the different districts? Yes, they may. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 185 
 
 Have you not had even recently different forms of sewers made for 
 the same outfall ? Yes. we have. 
 
 Will you give the last example? The last two were in Charlotte 
 street, Bloomsbury, and in Museum street. They were both for the re- 
 lief of the Ho! born district, extending- from the Hampstead road to 
 George street, Gower street and Bedford square. 
 
 What were the differences of form in the same outfall? In Char- 
 lotte street, the Holborn and Finsbury being the egg shaped sewer, with 
 the small end downwards, the Westminster Commission brought up 
 their outlet to ours in the egg-shape form, only with the broad end 
 downwards. In Museum street, the Westminster sewer was of the up- 
 right sides, and nearly a flat bottom, with spreading footings. 
 
 What was the difference of the expense of the two forms? One form, 
 I know, cost about 14?. per foot. I have been informed that the cost 
 of the Westminster sewers was about 28s. per foot in Museum street. 
 
 Had, then, the natural drainage area been under one jurisdiction, 
 may it not be presumed that the same main line would have been car- 
 ried throughout, of one form, and at one expense, and that expense a 
 reduced one ? Certainly. I should never have thought of having dif- 
 ferent forms for the same outlet. 
 
 Are not the gully-shoots, in an engineering point of view, essential 
 parts of the machinery for drainage? Yes. 
 
 (To Mr. Stable.) Have not a large proportion of the parishes within 
 the Holborn and Finsbury division the right to direct the insertion of 
 gully-shoots in any number they please? Yes, the Parochial Paving 
 Boards generally possess that power. 
 
 (To Mr. Roe.) According to all engineering principles, ought not 
 inclination of the surface, and the paving of the surface of the street, to 
 be considered, for the discharge of surface-water and filth, and governed 
 in conjunction with the other arrangements for drainage? Yes, un- 
 doubtedly. I certainly consider that the city of London has derived 
 great advantage from the paving, and other parts of the same machine- 
 ry, being under one management. 
 
 Besides the engineering descrepancies, in what other shape do incon- 
 veniencies arise from the separation of the management? We hear of 
 them chiefly in the shape of constant complaints from the contractors. 
 They send in estimates for the building of the sewers, including the 
 reinstatement of the pavements. On the Commissioners advertising for 
 o- sewers, the contractor sends in a tender for the construction of 
 
186 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 the sewers for a sum which includes the opening- and reinstatement of 
 the pavement. The Commissioners of Pavements have the power, which 
 they exclusively exercise, of reinstating the pavement; and this power 
 they retain tenaciously. After the completion of the contract, the con- 
 tractors very generally complain of the exorbitant charges they have 
 had to pay for the reinstatement of the paving, and put strong cases for 
 an additional allowance. A new contractor has guessed at what would 
 he the charge from what would be reasonable; some have thought it 
 would be a mere trifle, but have been deprived of their profits by these 
 exactions. This has been a peculiar grievance with our general work- 
 men, who contract for the building and the repair of sewers during 
 three years. They have contracted, as a general price, for Is. 6d. per 
 superficial yard, but they have been subjected to charges which have 
 amounted to three times that sum. 
 
 If this were under one control, at what expense to the public might 
 it be executed ? Certainly at 9d. per yard at the maximum ; that is to 
 say, at half the expense which in ordinary cases the Commissioners 
 now pay the contractors. 
 
 But at that half expense, would not the work be much belter exe- 
 cuted 1 Certainly much belter, much quicker, and with less of that 
 inconvenience to the public in the obstruction to thoroughfares which 
 is now such a grievance in the metropolis. 
 
 What are the motives to the ineffectual pavement? To the parish 
 contractors every repavement is a source of emolument. 
 
 It appears that in this one subdivision of the drainage area of the 
 metropolis, there are thirty-four parish boards, or trusts, or sub-districts, 
 having the independent powers described. In passing through two or 
 more districts with one line of sewer, do you find wide differences in 
 the charges'? Yes, in sewers passing through three parishes, one 
 charged Is. per yard, another Is. 6d, and the third 2s. 3d., all in one 
 line of road, and for one description of road. 
 
 What are the works you have at present in hand 'I The building of 
 sewers in Mansfield place, Kentish-town, and in Providence place, 
 Kentish-town; in Burhill-row and Lambs' buildings, St. Luke's, Mid- 
 dlesex, and in Lamb-court, Clerkenwell-green ; constructing gully- 
 holes in St. Paul's-road, Camden-town, in Albert-street and King's 
 road, St. Pancras ; and in Bagnigge- Wells-road, Clerkenwell ; and 
 forming a junction between sewers in Plumber-place, Clerkenwell. 
 "What works have you under consideration ? A new extension line 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 187 
 
 of sewer for the drainage of Holloway, in Islington parish ; the rebuild- 
 ing of a dilapidated sewer in Bloomsbury square : and the forming an 
 outlet for sewers built by individuals near tbe City road. 
 
 What may be the probable expense of the works^you have under con- 
 sideration 7 Twelve thousand two hundred and fifty-four pounds; be- 
 sides which a very large sum of money will be required for the drain- 
 age of courts and alleys not yet ascertained, and applications have been 
 made for the extension of sewers to effect the proper drainage for the 
 north part of Kentish-town and Ilampstead . 
 
 (To Mr. Stable.') Since it appears from the surveyors' well-consid- 
 ered reports, that the control and application of the supply of water 
 will admit of extensive reductions of the sizes of sewers and drains, and 
 a reduction of the expense of sewers to more than one-half, do you think 
 it warrantable to go on whilst there is any reasonable prospect of ob- 
 taining such a reduction, putting the public to a double expense for a 
 less efficient, system of drainage? Were the Commissioners of the Hoi- 
 born and Finsbury sewers aware of such improvements being under con- 
 sideration, I have no doubt, they would suspend all such works as are not 
 of immediate necessity. The Commissioners themselves had intended 
 to apply to Parliament for extended powers. 
 
 But did they propose to go for powers to obtain control over addi- 
 tional supplies of water ? No, they had not the least idea of it. 
 
 Admitting, as you do, the advantages of a general survey, do you 
 believe that there would be any disadvantage to the public in the delay 
 of the works within your district for such a survey ? I consider not, 
 except such as are of absolute necessity. 
 
 From your experience and observation of this department of public 
 administration, do you not consider that it would be of advantage to 
 have a consolidated commission for the whole district of the metropolis'? 
 I consider it would be of great public advantage if a superintending 
 general Board were appointed to frame uniform regulations for the 
 management of the sewers and pavements of the metropolis. 
 
 Would not even a provisional Commission of Sewers for a consoli- 
 dated district, comprehending the whole area of the metropolis, be of 
 advantage, (if not absolutely necessary, in respect to other districts of 
 the metropolis at least, if not of your own), to secure for the public 
 early, the full advantage of the survey of a whole district, and to pre- 
 pare for further consolidations'? Yes, as far as general regulations ex- 
 tend. 
 
l88 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Having experienced the collisions with the separate pavement au- 
 thorities in carrying out sewerage works, have you formed any opinion 
 as to the expediency of consolidating the works of paving with the 
 works of sewerage and drainage? Having seen how well the union of 
 the management of the paving and drainage of the city of London has 
 worked, I have no doubt that an extension of the same system would 
 be of advantage to the public. 
 
 Would you still apply that conclusion to the case of a consolidation 
 of the whole of the metropolis under one sewage district? Yes. 
 
 Out of what fund will the new sewerage works for Bloomsbury be 
 paid for? Out of the general fund belonging 1 to the Holborn Division. 
 
 Then the rate-payers of Camden-town will be paying for the branch 
 as well as the main drainage of the district below them ? Certainly; 
 this shows the defect of the present state of the law, and on this subject 
 I beg lo refer to the printed copy of a report made to the court of Hol- 
 born and Finsbury sewers, on the 30th of April last, in reference to the 
 bill then pending in the House of Commons on the health of towns, 
 which I beg to hand in. 
 
 Would it not be an advantage to distribute the charges for branch 
 drains over periods of years coincident with the benefits experienced ? 
 Certainly. 
 
 Will not this be also absolutely necessary in respect to the house- 
 drainage? Yes, if it is intended that house-drainage is to be supplied 
 by the Commissioners instead of as at present being effected by the 
 owners or occupiers of the individual houses to be drained. 
 
 From your experience and observations in these commissions, do you 
 consider that any man who is an architect or builder in practice or in 
 trade, or in professions connected with ihem, can properly be held to 
 come within the original meaning of the Siatute of Sewers, as a sub- 
 stantial and indifferent person, to exercise functions in the control of 
 public works, or the drainage of houses or lands? I think that any 
 tradesman is below the grade intended by the Statute of Sewers. 
 
 What do you pay for collections ? In the more opulent parts of the 
 district Qd. in the pound, and 9d. in the poorer, the difficulty of collec- 
 tion being greater, and the assessments on individuals smaller in amount 
 in the latter than the former portions of the division. 
 
 Do you not consider that a consolidation of collections would be ad- 
 vantageous to the public? Yes, provided the sewers-rate formed a part 
 of the poor-rate collection in the same manner as the police-rate. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 189 
 
 Have you reason to believe that it would be of public advantage that 
 the whole of the sewers should be constructed on contracts on behalf 
 of the public, and none allowed to be constructed by private builders or 
 owners'? Yes, more particularly as a means of preventing builders 
 evading the regulations established for constructing sewers and drains. 
 
 Various objections have been made to the proceedings of the Court of 
 Sewers from parochial or other local bodies; what has been the nature 
 of those objections from parochial vestries'? I would put in a copy 
 memorial of the Paving Board of St. Giles and St. George, Bloomsbury. 
 
 Have there been received at any times from these bodies suggestions 
 of improvements either as to the works, or well-considered and ap- 
 proved suggestions of amendments in the administration of them ? 
 Have there, in fact, been received from the parishes any clear or well- 
 considered statements of the evils arising from defective house-drainage 
 or sewerage? Nosuggestions have been received from any parochial or 
 local boards as to improvements in the construction of sewers, the effi- 
 ciency of house-drainage, or as to the general administration of the 
 sewers laws in the Holborn and Finsbury Divisions. 
 
 In what intervals of time are your collections of sewers'-rates made ? 
 Generally from one to two years. 
 
 Have you any persons on your Commission who are bankrupts, or 
 outlaws, or insolvents'? One of those named in the existing Com- 
 mission has been outlawed, and another is known to be in insolvent 
 circumstances. 
 
 To the Right Hon. Henry Brougham and Vaux^ of Brougham in the 
 County of Westmoreland^ Lord High Chancellor of Great Britain. 
 
 The Memorial of the Committee for Paving, The Statement of the Commissioners of 
 
 Cleansing, and Lighting the parishes of Sewers for Holborn and Finsbury Divi- 
 
 St. Giles-in-the- Fields and St. George, sions, relating to the matters referred to 
 
 Bloomsbury. in the annexed Memorial. 
 
 SHOWETH SHOWETH 
 
 That your Memorialists, under and by That the Commissioners of Sewers for 
 
 virtue of an Act of Parliament passed in Holborn and Fin i bury Divisions extends 
 
 the 59th year of the reign of his Majesty from the centre of Tottenham court-road on 
 
 King George the Third, intituled, " An Act the west, embraces the several parishes of 
 
 for better Paving, Cleansing, and Lighting St. Pancras, the county part of St. Andrew, 
 
 the parishes of St. Giles-in-the-Fields and Holborn, St. George, the Martyr, the Li- 
 
 St. George, Bloomsbury, in the county of berty of the Rolls, about two-thirds of the 
 
 Middle-ex, and for vesting the sole man- united parishes of St Giles and St. George, 
 
 agement thereof in the Vestrymen of the Bloomsbury, the parishes of Si. John and 
 
 said parishes, and a Committee of the In- St. James, Clerkenwell, St. Mary, Isling- 
 
 habitants thereof," have been appointed a ton, St. Luke, the liberty of Glass house 
 
 Committee for effecting the several purposes yard, part of St. Sepulchre, the liberty of 
 
 in the said Act mentioned. Norton Falgate, St Leonard, Shoreditch, 
 
 That part of the a bove-mentioned parishes and Stoke .N ewington, in the county of Mid- 
 
 is within the district of th^OOSimresiDners dlesex. 
 
 V* /ir 'TV'* 
 
 UNIVERSITY 
 
190 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 of Sewers for the City and Liberty of West- 
 minster, but the greater part, namely, 
 about two-thirds, is within the district of 
 the Commissioners of Sewers for Holborn 
 and Finsbury Divisions. 
 
 That in the Commission of Sewers for the 
 city and liberty of Westminster twelve of 
 the inhabitants of these parishes are nomi- 
 nated thereto, whereas the Commission for 
 the Holborn and Finsbury Divisions, whose 
 district in the parishes is of so much larger 
 extent, contains (it is believed) only two 
 of the inhabitants among the many persons 
 exercising jurisdiction, and raising and 
 levying so large a sum upon an average of 
 7,000 annually in the said parishes. 
 
 That from the smaller number of Com- 
 missioners resident in these parishes, in the 
 said Holborn and Finsbury Division of sew- 
 ers, your Memorialists are desirous of being 
 more adequately represented, by having a 
 small number of the owners or proprietors 
 of houses and lands within their respective 
 parishes added to the Commission for the 
 Holborn and Finsbury Divisions. 
 
 That your Memorialists, previous to 
 making this application to your Lordship, 
 applied to His Majesty's Justices and Com- 
 missioners of Sewers for the Holborn and 
 Finsbury Divisions, to be furnished with a 
 
 That the present number of Commission- 
 ers in the Holborn and Finsbury Divisions 
 amount to 173, and for that portion of the 
 united parishes of St. Giles and St. George, 
 Bloomsbury, which is within this Commis- 
 sion, there are nineteen resident Commis- 
 sioners (their names and residence are here- 
 with annexed), being a greater proportion 
 of resident Commissioners than in any other 
 parish in the Commission ; and out of that 
 number those to whose names an asterisk is 
 affixed are on a standing Committee, and 
 without whose order in writing no work is 
 performed, and for which applications are 
 constantly making at the office of the Com- 
 missioners, No, 7 Hatton garden, where 
 daily attendance is given for receiving pe- 
 titions for sewers, complaints of stoppages, 
 &c., &c. 
 
 That the amount collected under this 
 Commission within the said parishes, upon 
 an annual average of the last nine years, 
 does not exceed the sum of .1,036, upon a 
 rate of sixpence in the pound upon the as- 
 sessment to the poor rate. The sewer-rate 
 is not made every year, but as the works to 
 be executed require, and such rate has been 
 found sufficient for three years, with the 
 exception of the rate made in i831, which, 
 in consequence of the prevalence of the 
 cholera, occasioned a much larger expendi- 
 ture, and lasted two years ; the dates of the 
 rates so made, and the amount collected in 
 the district of the Committee for paving St, 
 Giles and St. George, Bloomsbury, are as 
 follows : 
 
 s. d. 
 
 That in 1825 produced 2901 8 6 
 1838 " 2718 14 9 
 1831 " 2379 14 6 
 1833 " *926 11 6 
 
 That in the Commission issued in June, 
 1830, the names of the noblemen and gen- 
 tlemen submitted to the Lord Chancellor 
 for his approbation, to be inserted in the 
 Commission, consisted of the principal free- 
 holders and leaseholders of the respective 
 parishes, from whom a Committee of fifteen 
 Commissioners are appointed by the Court 
 of Sewers to superintend the works carry- 
 ing on ; and had the Commissioners enter- 
 tained an opinion that a large number of 
 persons would render this Commission more 
 efficient in operation or more beneficial to 
 the several parishes, they would not have 
 omitted to solicit his Lordship to have in- 
 creased the number* 
 
 That there are no printed lists of tlio 
 Commissioners, but the names of all the 
 Commissioners who attend are called over 
 at tiie General Courts, which are held quar- 
 terly, and are open to the public, being 
 
 * Being the supposed amount upon an average of three years. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 191 
 
 Courts of Record. The annual statement 
 of the expenditure for 1832, requested on 
 this application, was sent to Messrs. Finnis 
 Clerks to the Paving Committee. 
 
 Accounts showing the receipts and ex- 
 penditure are annually printed and sent to 
 the vestry clerks of the respective parishes ; 
 and may also be had by every rate-payer 
 upon the payment of one shilling. That the 
 expenditure in the cleansing and repairing 
 of old, or the constructing of new sewers 
 within the district of the Committee for 
 paving the said parishes of St. Giles in-the- 
 Fielcs, and St. George, Blobmsbury, upon 
 an annual average of the last nine years 
 amounts to upwards of 900. 
 
 By order of the Commissioners, 
 
 STABLE and LUSH, Clerics. 
 
 list of the Commissioners, in order that they 
 might interest those resident in these par- 
 ishes to watch the large receipt levied within 
 their jurisdiction, in reference to the small 
 sum expended in the cleansing and repair- 
 ing of old or the constructing of new sew- 
 ers within the said parishes of St. Giles -in- 
 the-Fields, and St. George, Bloomsbury, but 
 which list was refused to be furnished by 
 the said Commissioners. 
 
 That your Memorialists respectfully re- 
 quest your Lordship will be pleased to cause 
 the under-mentioned gentlemen, inhabit- 
 ants of these parishes to be added to the 
 Commission of Sewers for Holborn and Fins- 
 bury Divisions, namely William Henry 
 Savage, of No. 68 Gower street, Bedford 
 square; Captain Hardy, of No. 8 Tavistock 
 street, Bedford square ; William Mathew 
 Thiselton, No 59 Great Russell street, 
 Bloomsbury ; Mr. Edward Bullock, No. 211 
 High Holborn, Auctioneer; Mr. Nicholas 
 Winsland, Duke street, Bloomsbury, Build- 
 er ; Mr. Thomas Leverton Donaldson, No. 
 7 Hart street, Bloomsbury, Architect. 
 
 Your Memorialists therefore humbly 
 pray, upon the grounds herein stated, 
 that your Lordship will be pleased to 
 appoint the several gentlemen in- 
 habitants of these parishes above- 
 named, to the Commission of Sew- 
 ers, for the Holborn and Finsbury 
 Divisions, if it shall seem meet to 
 your Lordship. 
 
 By order of the Committee, 
 
 E. and R. F. FINNIS, Clerks, 
 Hart street, Bloomsbury square. 
 
 No. 18. 
 MR JOHN ROE. 
 
 Have you carried on any set of practical observations as to the flow 
 of sewers of different sizes and capacities, under different circum- 
 stances'? Yes, I have. Ever since I have been in the service of the 
 Commissioners of Sewers for the Holborn and Finsbury Divisions, I 
 have carried on observations as to the velocities of water in the river 
 Fleet sewer. Subsequently I have, at Mr. Chad wick's suggestion, ex- 
 tended the observations to branch and collateral sewers of different 
 descriptions. 
 
 Can you furnish the result of these observations, or tables founded 
 upon them? I have begun to form tables, which I hope to live to 
 complete. 
 
 What area is drained by the river Fleet '? About 4,400 acres ; of 
 which 1,888 acres are covered, or town area, and 2,512 acres uncover- 
 ed, or rural area. 
 
 What is the capacity of the river Fleet sewer, and what its inclina- 
 
92 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 {ion ? The s^wer is 12 feet high and 12 feet wide, with a superficial 
 area of 12(J feet in the largest part in the Hoi born and Finsbury Divi- 
 sions ; but the capacity of the whole line varies generally according 
 to the quantity of surface drained by each portion; wilh regard to its 
 inclination, it varies from 1 inch in 100 feet, to 1 inch in 2 feet; 
 whilst some poriions are on a level. 
 
 What is ihe sum of the capacities of all the sewers that full into it? 
 About 550 feet. 
 
 What is their number ? Sixty, that are called sewers. 
 
 Then the capacity of the main would be as about 1 to 4 of the ca- 
 pacity of the sewers, of which it is the general 0111161? Yes. 
 
 Can you furnish an approximation to the average inclination of the 
 sewers which fall into the Fleet? In most instances they vary ; some 
 of them are a quarter of an inch in 10 feet, others are 3 inches in 10 
 feet. 
 
 Suppose that every house within the district had a drain of 9-inch 
 diameter, what proportion would the sum of the capacities of the house 
 drains bear to the sum of the capacities of all the sewers? About 16 
 to 1. 
 
 And to the capacity of the main outfall? About 75 to 1. 
 
 On the occasion of the greatest storm which you have known to have 
 occurred, what was the condition of the main outfall? There were 
 106 feet of the area of the larger sewer filled by water which fell du- 
 ring the thunder-sform on August 1, 1846; during which storm the 
 fall of rain in one hour was double in quantity to any former fall that 
 1 have noticed in London. The following section exhibits the portions 
 of the capacity of the same sewer occupied on those occasions named, 
 and are the greatest I have observed : 
 
 Thunder storm, August 1, 1846, Area oc- 
 cupied, 1U6 feet. 
 
 Thunder storm, July, 1844. Area occupied, 
 
 79 feet. 
 Extraordinary thaw, nft^r fall of snow, 
 
 18il. Area occupied, 54 feet. 
 
 Level of ordinary tow. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 193 
 
 In the thunder-storm of last year, some damage was committed by 
 the flood in the neighborhood of the Fleet sewer. How was this oc- 
 casioned, and what was the extent of the mischief? No damage oc- 
 curred to the covered part of the sewer between Back-hill, Clerken- 
 well, and Grafton place, Kentish-town, but houses were flooded along 
 parts of the line. Some houses which stood on the banks of the open 
 part below Back-hill were washed down in consequence of the old 
 arched sewer over a portion of the Fleet, a little below Round-court, 
 which having only an area of 66 feet; and as the flood of August 1, 
 1846, occupied an area of 106 feet in the new sewer above Round- 
 court, the waters could not pass off quick enough, hence they accu- 
 mulated, and flooded Round-court so much as to cause the houses to 
 fall into the open part of the Fleet. 
 
 At what period has any similar damage been previously sustained'? 
 I am not aware of any damage lo a similar extent ; but much flood- 
 ing of property formerly took place above and about Battle-bridge. 
 The sewer has, however, been enlarged and lowered thereabouts, and 
 except on this occasion, such property has not since been flooded. 
 
 Engineers and theoretical writers have set forth various formulae as 
 to the flow of water ; and in the Second Report of the Health of 
 Towns' Commission there are some Tables by Mr. Hawksley on the 
 capacity of sewers required for various areas of drainage ; how do you 
 find those Tables to agree with your actual measure? Taking the 
 Table No. 1, I find that the size recommended for sewers to drain cer- 
 tain portions of land, are larger than the actual requirements ; for 
 instance, the quantity of acres that a cylindrical sewer, 48 inches in 
 diameter, is, by the table, allowed to drain, when the inclination is 1 
 in 240, is 47 ; whereas, in practice, it is found that such a sewer, with 
 that inclination, drains more than 100 acres of town area, at a similar 
 fall of rain to that on which the table is formed. Again, a sewer, with 
 a similar inclination, to drain 129 acres of town area, should (by the 
 table) be of the capacity of about 28 feet ; but in the great storm of 
 August, 1846, the water from 215 acres of town area, and 1785 acres 
 of rural district, occupied only 30J feet of the superficial area of a sewer 
 with that inclination. With respect to larger sizes, the table shows 
 that, at an inclination of 1 in 480, a sewer to drain 329 acres of town 
 area should have a capacity of about 78 feet; whereas, in a sewer with 
 a similar inclination, the area occupied in the storm of 1844 was only 
 79 feet ; and to this sewer, there drained J1S1 acres of town area ; and 
 2656 acres of rural district. 
 
94 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ''"'<T5 ; 
 
 Are you aware or any similar extent of observations to your own, on 
 the flow of water in sewers'? I am not. 
 
 Have you observed the flow of water in the different sizes of sewers'? 
 Yes, I have. 
 
 Will you take the case of a collateral sewer, discharging- the sewerage 
 of a street of which the houses have all water-closets, and all run into 
 the sewer ; can you give the proportionate flow in such a sewer at 
 different parts of the day ? Near midnight, 32 cubic feet of water 
 passed in 2 hours and 16 minutes. At noon the same quantity passed 
 in half an hour. On a water day, whilst the water was passing from 
 the main to the houses, 32 cubic feet passed along the sewer in 1 min- 
 ute and 16 seconds. 
 
 What would be the amount of rain-fall from the area covered by 
 those houses, and the spaces occupied as streets, passages, &c.? In a 
 street of 924 feet in length, containing 93 houses, on an area of 6 
 acres, 1 rood, 8 poles, a fall of rain, 2 inches in depth upon the street, 
 houses, and gardens, would produce 346 cubic feet of water per minute 
 in the sewer. 
 
 W r hat size of outfall would be needed for that? The size required 
 would vary with the inclination of the sewer. At the inclination of 1 
 in 4MO, the capacity required for that fall of rain would be 2.44 feet. 
 
 Have you ascertained the consumption of water in the houses? The 
 total quaniity averages 75 gallons per day to each house; but deduct- 
 ing the quantity which runs to waste on water day, the consumption 
 for household purposes appears to be about 50 gallons per house. 
 
 What would be t.he area required for that? About one-sixth of a 
 superficial fout for the whole of the houses, at the time of the greatest 
 flow. 
 
 In a lowland disHct, would there be much due to land springs? 
 There would be something due to land springs. In one sewer, which 
 passes through such a district, I have noticed a land spring which 
 furnishes a continual flow of water to the sewer, varying in depth from 
 1 inch to 3 inches. 
 
 Have you observed the discharge of water from uncovered land? 
 Yes ; I have. 
 
 Will you describe it? Having taken the levels, and measured off 
 the portion of meadow-land, about 82 acres, as shown in the diagram 
 now produced, I caused the invert part of a sewer to be formed at the 
 point marked with the letter A, that being the only outlet from this 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 195 
 
 surface. Observations of the run of water and depth of rain were 
 continued for five months. From all the particulars that were collected, 
 the greatest amount that was found to reach the invert, from a fall of 
 rain of half an inch in the hour, averaged 3 cubic feet per acre per 
 minute, at the period of the greatest flow ; that period was generally 
 from three-quarters to one hour after the heaviest portion of the rain 
 had fallen. 
 
 Have you any table that would show what quantity of constant flow 
 would keep the different classes of your present sewers clear of deposit, 
 at certain rates of inclination. Can you furnish a table exhibiting this 
 calculation? It will take some time to form such a table; but I will 
 give you now some few instances of sewers that have never required 
 flushing. 
 
 Average depth 
 
 of common 
 Inclination. run of water. 
 
 Class of 
 
 Sewers. Inches. Inches. REMARKS. 
 
 1 8- in 100 feet. 3 ^ A l^tle hard deposit until rain fell, 
 c\ Qi u o ) which requires to be loosened by the 
 
 '2 ** C laborers. 
 
 2 15 " 2 No gully into this. 
 
 2 30 u 1 
 
 2 20 a 2 
 
 , Q u * j 5 A little hard deposit from the roads, 
 
 *<* 4 2 \ loosened by the men. 
 
 Give an instance of a sewer that lias been kept clear by a small sup- 
 ply of water ? It is difficult to point out any sewer that may be strictly 
 said to have been kept clear by a small quantity of water. For, whilst 
 the rains have access by the gully grates, it is impossible to say correct- 
 ly what is due to the constant stream, and what is due to occasional 
 flooding by rain. Some sewers have deposit accumulated in dry 
 weather, which has been washed away in a storm. In others, neither 
 the constant run of water nor the occasional rains remove the deposit. 
 Hence, in upwards of a hundred miles in length in these divisions, 
 the deposits have been removed and kept down by flushing. 
 
 Does it not follow that such sewers must be too large, or of erroneous 
 construction 1 Some are too large ; others have no inclination, and 
 some have flat bottoms; but the want of inclination, and a flow 
 of water, are the greatest causes of deposit requiring flushing away. 
 
 Deduct for evaporation and percolation, what sized stream would 
 convey away a two-inch fall of rain in the district drained by the Fleet, 
 at the usual fall of large rivers? Supposing a river to run at the rate 
 of three miles per hour, the stream would be about 65 feet in width by 
 
 10 feet in depth. 
 
 13 
 
196 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Was not much water likely to have been carried away by other 
 streams thdn the Fleet? The water that runs from the surface named, 
 as drained by the Fleet, has no other outlet than that sewer. 
 
 According to calculation, was most of what was due to the rain fall, 
 except what might have been accounted for by evaporation and per- 
 colation throughout the soil, carried away by the Fleet? The whole, 
 with these exceptions, was carried away. 
 
 Have you been able to ascertain the difference between the actual 
 fall and the quantity carried away by the sewer? In the tables which 
 are in progress, I intend to give all the information on this part of the 
 subject that I have been able to collect. 
 
 Allowing for the increase of velocity by the junction of streams, under 
 the circumstances you have ascertained by experiment, in relation to 
 the flow of water in the river Fleet, what relation in size, so far as 
 any existing data will allow you to judge, ought the sum of the branch 
 sewers to bear to the main out-fall, and the sum of space of the house 
 drains bear to the branch drains ? The mean velocity of the stream 
 in the main line, increases after the junction of each stream that flows 
 from the collateral sewers, but no one specific proportion, as to the size 
 of branch sewers, can be given to suit all situations. There are few 
 localities where the same inclination can be given to all the sewers, 
 hence, the proportions of the sum of the capacities of the branch 
 sewers to the main sewers will always vary according to the advantages 
 or disadvantages of the levels for drainage. If the main sewer 
 have but little fall, and the collateral sewers have a quick descent, its 
 capacity must be greater in proportion to the sum of the capacity of the 
 collaterals than if the latter had a sluggish current and the main line 
 a quick descent. 
 
 There were at the time of the census, 270,000 houses in the Metro- 
 polis. If each were to have a 9-inch drain, at the least, as provided 
 in the Building Act, at the instance of architects, what must be the 
 sectional area of the river or the stream of water requisite to keep them 
 all full and flowing? A stream 1132 feet in width by 105 feet in 
 depth. 
 
 What proportion does this bear to the Thames ? Probably about 
 three times as large. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 197 
 
 As cold water checks decomposition, would not the effect of a tubular 
 system of drainage, and a regulated supply of water, be greatly to 
 prevent any emanation whatsoever ? If a sufficient quantity of water 
 was passed constantly through the sewers, no noxious effluvia would 
 arise ; such is the case at Eton, where 16,000 cubic feet of water passes 
 through the main sewer every hour in summer, and considerably more 
 in the winter season. 
 
 Would not a less supply of water, with a constant flow, suffice to 
 keep it clear of deposit? A less quantity would suffice to keep the 
 sewer clear from ordinary deposit, but as from necessity these sewers 
 have no inclination, deposit from the macadamized roads is loosened 
 and flushed away periodically. 
 
 Would not ;i proportionate quantity in a smaller sewer suffice to 
 keep it clear? With a suitable inclination, a less quantity would 
 suffice to keep such small sewers clear. 
 
 With a regulated flow of water to keep the drains in action, within 
 what time would all matter received into the sewers in your district be 
 discharged from it? At the inclination which many sewers are of 
 necessity placed, no constant run of water will suffice to keep them 
 free from deposit. The deposit which comes into the sewers from the 
 macadamized roads, and some other sources, is of that heavy and 
 tenacious description, that it requires in some sewers a flushing-gate, 
 moving on wheels, to concentrate the force of the water to one point ; 
 and the deposit has to be loosened before the water, with this additional 
 force, can wash it away. If a sewer had a proper inclination, and a 
 sufficient supply of water, no deposit would remain in it ; but at the 
 inclination that can at present be obtained for a large proportion of 
 these sewers, deposit will accumulate unless prevented by flushing. 
 
 What additional quantities of water do you consider might be re- 
 quisite for the proper action of a tubular system of drainage ? No 
 additional water is required in the Hoi born and Finsbury Divisions for 
 flushing the 100 miles of sewers so kept clear. As regards the flow of 
 water through tubular glazed pipes, I find that the velocity at the same 
 depth of water is one-third more than brick made drains, having the 
 same inclination ; and although at present the largest size of these is only 
 15 inches diameter, yet this size might be used to great advantage in 
 similar situations to where a larger class of drains or sewers was former- 
 
198 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ly used. The following are some of the results of experiments made 
 with glazed pipes. 
 
 TABLE OF COMPARATIVE TIME OF RUN OF WATER THROUGH BRICK DRAINS 
 
 AND GLAZED PIPES. 
 
 
 Inclination. 
 
 Depth 
 of water. 
 
 Time through 
 Glazed Pipes. 
 
 Time through 
 Brick Drain. 
 
 
 
 Level 
 
 Inches. 
 5 
 
 38 
 
 50 
 
 
 
 2 inches in 50 feet. 
 2| ditto 
 ij ditto 
 k ditto 
 3| ditto 
 1| ditto 
 
 4i 
 &k 
 3 
 3 
 
 6 
 
 16k 
 19 
 18 
 25 
 15 
 13 
 
 25 
 27 
 26 
 36 
 22 
 21k 
 
 
 The experiments were made in the following manner first, the 
 velocity in each sewer was taken for a length of 50 feet; then 50 feet 
 in length of glazed pipes were laid on the bottom of the sewer at the 
 same place, to secure the same inclination as the sewer ; the water was 
 then allowed to pass through the pipes at the same depth as it had been 
 in the sewer, and the velocity ascertained. The results were as above 
 stated. 
 
 When you have had flushing going on, have you not observed that 
 air is drawn into the sewers and carried down with the water? Yes ; 
 I have often observed it. 
 
 With a system of tubular sewers and drains, and a regulated supply 
 of water, and a quicker flow, must not analohous effects be produced, 
 and instead of gases being given out from the sewers, air be carried in? 
 At the letting off a flush of water, there is a rush of fresh air into the 
 sewers from the gratings, sufficient, in some cases, to blow out a candle. 
 I have noticed that a current of air accompanies ever) 7 flow of water, 
 and where the depth of water is greatest, there the current of air is 
 most considerable, the inclination being the same. 
 
 Will you give us cross sections of the sizes which you would propose 
 for tubular sewers and drains, as deduced from the actual flow of water 
 under a system of regulated supply ; and also sections of the egg- 
 shaped sewers, and the sewers formerly in use, and the house-drains^now 
 in use, as well as those you would propose, with the relative prices of 
 these several description of works ? 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 
 
 199 
 
 Transverse Sections of Sewers, as originally constructed with man-holes 
 
 for cleansing. 
 
 1st Class. 2nd Class. 
 
 Cost, 15s. 
 
 Cost per foot, 21s., including Pavements. 
 
 House Drains. 
 
 1st Class. 
 
 2d Class. 
 
 If 
 
 Cost, 3s. Cost,2s.6rf. 
 
 These forms of drains are still in use by many builders. 
 
 Transverse Sections of Sewers as at present constructed, with side en 
 trances for flushing. 
 
 1st Class. 2d Class. 3d Class. 
 
 ^ Thunder storm 
 of 1846. 
 
 B 
 
 \]WS 
 
 r 
 _ 3L- 
 
 3 * 
 
 3 
 
 Q 
 
 ' 
 
 
 k 
 
 M 
 
 J 
 
 Common rune. 
 
 Cost per foot, including pavements, 16s. 
 4th Class. 
 
 Cost, 8s. Cost, 7s. Cost 6s, 
 
 7th Class. Egg-shape, 3 feet height by 2 feet extreme width. 
 
200 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 1st Class. 
 
 Drains for Courts, 
 
 2d Class. 
 
 3d Class. 
 
 Cost, 3s. 9d. Cost, 3s 
 
 House Drains with Glazed Pipes. 
 
 Cost, 2s. 6d. 
 
 Cost, Is. 9d. 
 
 
 
 Cost, Is. 7d. 
 
 N. B. Burnt clay pipes are much cheaper, but not so good for 
 passing filthy water. 
 
 Practical Sizes under a System of the regulated Supply of Water. 
 
 The egg-shape form, such as are at this day constructed in the Holborn 
 and Finsbury division, are those descriptions of sewers I would recom- 
 mend for general use in those situations to which they are by their rela- 
 tive size adapted. If the outlets were lowered so as to afford a proper in- 
 clination to the collateral sewers, these might be reduced in size ; and 
 for the cross streets, tubular drains might be used with advantage, 
 always supposing a regulated supply of water to flow through them ; 
 but at present there will always exist numerous cases, where flushing 
 will be required to remove the heavy deposit, or a return made to the 
 old system of breaking up the streets to get it out of the sewers. The 
 largest size of glazed drain pipe made in London at present is fifteen 
 inches in diameter. 
 
 May we not expect, as a consequence of an extended demand for 
 tubular drains and sewers, further reductions in price, and improvement 
 in quality? Yes; but at present tubular pipe, exceeding one foot in 
 diameter, is not so cheap as the best brickwork in cement. In fact, at 
 present, glazed pipes of 15 inches diameter are the largest that have 
 yet been formed by the metropolitan makers, but some of them are 
 about to try the making them of much larger capacity. 
 
 You have been requested to furnish this Commission with some in- 
 stances of your gaugings in sewers, showing the quantity of area 
 drained, the number of houses, the capacity of the sewers, the area 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 201 
 
 occupied therein by the common run of water, or during the time the 
 waler is letting on to the houses from the water main, the greatest 
 area occupied during a storm the distance of the sewer from the 
 Thames, and the height of the surface of the street above Thames 
 high-water mark; will you now give that information? The follow- 
 ing Table exhibits what you require 
 
 o, 8 
 g? 8 
 
 
 OWl-il-->-i COO tiX W l-J O M W tO Ol *-< ^ 
 
 Area drained. 
 
 OOrf.OOSO l-itO t-i J- CO tO >-i -4 OS 
 rf^tOCOOiO OOl OsOiOSOiCOdO 
 
 : : v.< 
 
 
 >u cs I* co to rr> ' toot^ost^ooio 
 
 O Ol > 1<| tO tO O) O O ' tO CO *>- CO O 
 
 No. of Houses. 
 
 oo o 
 
 ' ' p" 1 p" 1 
 
 
 oJ^Obo ao QSQSooogg 
 
 Size of Sewer. 
 
 CO M 
 CQ CQ 
 
 
 ^'S"o"co S" rao'^o' COMCO,-, 
 
 to i-" to 
 
 
 ft-p ^ ^ ** Or Grf^-OitO^ 
 
 
 
 g.5' 1 g 
 
 
 
 p 
 
 " 
 
 
 
 
 H^ CO "*l CO CO CO **J *Jt CC CO *^J CO I ~ J ^ 
 
 Capacity. 
 
 : : : 
 
 
 KS : ' & S SSSi* SS W ? 
 
 
 
 5* 
 
 
 
 ir** ^- 
 
 
 tto ** iM^W* * 
 
 run. 
 
 $j 
 
 
 DQ 
 
 ? 
 
 
 o 
 
 : : : 
 
 H 
 
 w 
 
 
 
 OOOOOO O TJ 
 
 Area occupied. 
 
 2, 
 
 
 . . 
 
 02 
 
 g) 03H-tOMN5^-tO- 3 
 
 When Water let on 
 
 
 . 
 
 54 
 
 ^2. *** **" Wr-*wf>t- ti- 
 
 from Pipes. 
 
 
 
 o 
 
 
 Area occupied. 
 
 
 !] 
 
 O OOOOOOOO ^ 
 
 i '. '. 
 
 
 '|IIII 'o lOOrioW>"liOi-i" 
 
 
 g 
 
 ? 4-. 
 
 : : : 
 
 H 
 <0 
 
 a 
 
 w 
 
 h-i i-i i_i _i i_4 oo rfi. I- 1 l-i O5 I- 1 tO tO tC OS ^ 
 
 During the greatest Rain, 
 in 1846, Area occupied. 
 
 QQ Q 
 
 5 
 
 ^a^^ fe! 2 -fei^iE 3 ?!^^ 
 
 Water closets or not. 
 
 
 
 Q 
 
 OOOOO OM M OOMOTWOO* 
 
 s-sr sr 
 
 ^ 
 
 
 gg S 
 
 a 
 
 CO 
 
 sisIS Si SlsslSlli ? 
 
 Distance from the Thames, 
 
 Ci<J <t 
 co or M 
 
 O Cl 
 
 
 HH 
 
 !25 
 
 d 
 
 !!!!! !! 
 
 Height above Thames 
 high-water mark. 
 
 So co 
 
 
 Ct *-" tO tO Or COWI" 
 
 
 
 *ot- _. 
 
 
 >s!-tO &r ^. -.. 
 
 
 
 St. B" 1 y ff o 
 o g> ro o co 
 
 
 II fftltf |HI 
 
 
 
 ^ g' y' O- 3 
 
 
 5' 3' - M S^S ^ g-o 
 
 
 
 8o 
 
 
 Is l^glrs | sf 
 
 1 
 
 
 _^ f? 5- S 3 
 
 
 S'ra" o g'o C^5 |_ , 
 
 5' 
 
 
 re f 2- ct " 
 
 
 c *" ?*" O <?' i-tj c *"^ 1 " S 
 
 
 
 
 x^\ ^ 
 
 P K- 
 
 
 ? S' | 2, g ^ |- 
 
 
 
 Oj S^ 
 
 
 "^ p 2 C 3 
 
 
 
 o S" 
 
 ts 
 
 
 ^ S 5"2, p a> 
 
 ^ ^ w S" * 
 
 
 
 p . 
 
 
 $&' B'f & 
 
 
 
202 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Having now given your attention during several years to the drain- 
 age of the Metropolis, and been consulted in respect to the drainage of 
 towns, both at home and abroad, do you believe that a systematic 
 drainage of the whole Metropolis can be carried out otherwise than by 
 one administrative direction and under one general survey'? I have 
 already expressed my opinion of the benefit of a general survey of the 
 Metropolis. Had such survey been made many years since, a great 
 saving would have accrued in the cost of sewers, as the main lines 
 might have been kept at such a depth as to have allowed a sufficient 
 inclination to most of the collateral sewers in the Metropolis, which, 
 with a constant flow of water, might have been kept clear, and the 
 size been reduced accordingly. And now such survey should be made, 
 in order to amend some existing lines, and to afford facilities for future 
 sewage works to be done at the cheapest rate, in the best manner, and 
 at a proper level. Some of the outlets brought up to these divisions do 
 not afford a depth sufficient to obtain more than 1 in 1,200 inclination 
 to the main sewers that drain to them, and the inclination in many of 
 the collateral sewers is very little in consequence. I have before stated 
 that to remedy the evils induced by want of a survey in these divisions 
 would cost nearly a quarter of a million sterling. As to the adminis- 
 trative direction of the drainage, I am of opinion that to secure the ef- 
 fective carrying out of an uniform system, there should be a superin- 
 tending Board, entrusted with adequate authority. The benefit of 
 such a superintending Board should also be extended to the whole of 
 the kingdom s or but little good will be effected in sanitary matters. 
 
 What would be the effect of the suspension or delay of the existing 
 works for the benefit of a general survey'? No positive evil would 
 arise, so long as works of necessity, such as repairs, and the drainage 
 of houses in progress of building, were carried on. 
 
 Do you consider that any landlord, administering his own money, or 
 any faithful steward administering it for him, would go on without such 
 a survey ] No. 
 
 No. 19. 
 BERIAH DREW, ESQ. 
 
 To what division of the Sewers Commission do you belong'? The 
 Surrey and Kent Sewers. 
 
 Are you the surveyor *? I ana the clerk. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 203 
 
 Do you act also as clerk to the magistrates? No. 
 
 Were you examined before the Health of Towns Commission'? I 
 was. 
 
 The Commissioners are desirous of ascertaining* the extent of work 
 for house, and street, and main drainage which remains unaccomplish- 
 ed in your district ; have you any plans in the office upon which you 
 can rely for making an accurate return of the number of streets within 
 the district which have sewers in them? There is no general plan, 
 except that before you. The district is divided into three parts, there 
 are three surveyors, and I have no doubt they can furnish such an ac- 
 count ; I have none in the office. 
 
 Have you sections of all the drains and sewers? Of existing sew- 
 ers. I have them in the contracts always, but I have no plan showing 
 the section of a sewer all the way except upon the contracts. 
 
 The sections of the sewers you have, are such as are contained in 
 the contracts? Yes, in the office. 
 
 And they are not laid out, upon any uniform plan by which they 
 could all be referred to at a glance? Not in the office. The district, 
 except as respects that portion added to it by the last act, is pretty much 
 on one level. It is all under high water mark. The tide would over- 
 flow it, perhaps, in some places, eight feet, in others only six feet, and 
 of course, at the extreme ends, it would only just reach it; but we are 
 all under high water mark except the portion which has been recently 
 added to us. 
 
 Are you in the habit of distinguishing your drains by main lines and 
 collateral lines? Yes; but generally speaking it is more the duty of 
 the surveyor to do that than it is mine. 
 
 Each surveyor, of course, has a plan of his district? Yes. 
 
 Each surveyor would have his own plan to produce? Yes. We 
 have a plan upon which the main lines are marked. 
 
 W T hat is the district over which your jurisdiction now extends? 
 Under the local Acts of Parliament the district extends from Battersea 
 to the river, dividing Deptford and Greenwich. We extend from the 
 river Thames to the base of the hills of Clapham, Camberwell, Hatch- 
 am, and Deptford. The new district is south of that to the summit of 
 the hills. 
 
 Do your sewers receive all the surface drainage from those hills ? 
 Yes, unfortunately. 
 
 Is not it a benefit ? We do not think so. We have the greatest dif- 
 
 M ** 
 
204 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ficulty now to get rid of the water. It has been in the contemplation 
 of the Commissioners for some time, and they are executing it as fast 
 as they can, to make a line of sewer at the base of those hills, to carry 
 the water out to Deptford. A portion of the water is now carried out 
 by the EfTra river into the Thames from the Brixton washway west- 
 ward, but there is no such communication eastward. 
 
 Have you laid down any plans for that project ? No, it is not yet 
 decided whether we shall carry it out at the upper water-gate or into 
 the river Ravensbourne ; and we are not anxious of publishing our in- 
 tentions, because we find that, when we have to purchase lands for the 
 purpose of such contracts, the price is increased, if it is known before- 
 hand that we are going there. 
 
 Have you any survey upon such a scale, as would enable you, with- 
 out any more special survey, to work out such a plan 1 There has 
 been a survey taken, but it is with the surveyor. 
 
 On what scale is it? I do not know. 
 
 With respect to the plans in the hands of the surveyors how are they 
 accessible. Supposing a builder wished to see them, are they considered 
 as public plans available for any purposes of that kind, or are they the 
 plans of the architect ? They are the plans of the Commission. 
 
 How far would they be accessible to any person wishing to inspect 
 them; would they be accessible in the same manner as if they were 
 in your own office? Yes, entirely. 
 
 Have you a Court-house? No. 
 
 Nor any special office? -Yes, there is an office. 
 
 Have you any records there belonging to the Commission? Yes. 
 
 How long have you had that office? Ever since I was appointed ; 
 I think twenty-seven years. 
 
 Where is it situated ? In Bermondsey street. 
 
 Is it an office rented by the Commission ? Yes, they make an allow- 
 ance of .50 a year for it. 
 
 Do any officers of the Commission reside there? A servant is living 
 there. 
 
 Is it, or any part of it, occupied by yourself as a solicitor? No, I 
 am not a solicitor. It is partly occupied by my brother, who has been 
 a solicitor.. 
 
 Who are the three surveyors? The upper district is tinder the care 
 of Mr. Joseph Gwilt, of Abingdon street; the middle district is that 
 of Mr. Edward PAnson, of Laurence Pountney lane; and the lower 
 district is that of Mr. John Newman. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 205 
 
 What has been done since yon were examined before the Health of 
 Towns Commission in the way of rebuilding 1 , or altering", or improving 
 the sewerage of the district in which you are an officer? I can pro- 
 duce a list of the improvements and additions since that period. I do 
 not immediately recollect the whole of them. Of course latterly we 
 have been, and are now, restrained from doing works which we wish to 
 do, from the want of money; no money is to be obtained. There 
 are a great number of schemes under the consideration of the Com- 
 missioners at this moment, but we are only able to execute a portion of 
 them. Under our Act we are obliged to give notice of any intended 
 new sewer, so that any party may attend and object to the line pro- 
 posed . That notice has been given since the new Act has been ob- 
 tained, and perhaps I had better hand in a list of places of which we 
 have given the notice. This notice has been served upon one of the 
 church-wardens, and stuck upon the church doors of all the parishes of 
 the district ; but they comprise a very large outlay, and the Commis- 
 sioners are only able at this moment, in consequence of the state of 
 the money market, and being unable to get an advance from the Ex- 
 chequer Loan Commissioners, to propose carrying out the following : 
 
 " Sewers, Surrey ) 1Q47 
 
 and Kent. $ 
 
 " PARTICULARS of NEW SEWERS about to be EXECUTED under notice 
 of 22d September, 1847. 
 
 Estimated Cost. 
 
 s. d. 
 
 No. 1. Cold Harbor lane, Camberwell and Lambeth. 2,587 15 
 
 " 17. Kent street, St. George and Newington 2,270 
 
 " 18. Friar street, St. George 1,360 
 
 " 30. Long lane, Bermondsey ,2,740 
 
 " 31. And Weston street 270 
 
 3,010 
 
 " 32. New Cross 2,281 
 
 11,508 15 
 Victoria sewer, Peckham 2,445 
 
 .13,953 15 
 
 What is the total outlay for the works of which you have given 
 notice? I should say 100,000. 
 
206 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Is that for works of main drainage? Principally main drains. 
 
 How many miles of main drains? Upwards of sixteen miles. 
 
 With respect to the sizes adopted in the construction of the sewers, 
 do they remain the same as before? They vary very little, because 
 they are additions to the original lines. When we approach hills 
 where we get a fall, there, of course, they are reduced in size. 
 
 What are the dimensions of the several classes of sewers which you 
 are in the habit of using? The largest is 5 feet by 4 feet ; the second 
 is 5 feet by 3 feet ; the one more commonly executed is 4 feet 9 by 3 
 feet 6, and 4 feet 6 by 2 feet 9. Those are the largest sewers; some 
 collateral sewers are executed as small as 4 feet by 2 feet 6, and 2 feet 
 by 2 feet . 
 
 Has any alteration taken place in the size or shape of the sewers 
 within the last few years ? No. 
 
 Will you give the contract prices of each class of sewers? A sewer 
 5 ft. by 4 ft., including digging gangways and gulleys.. 22s. a foot. 
 A sewer 5 ft. by 3 ft., including as before, is very nearly the same cost. 
 
 " 4 ft. 9 in. by 3 ft. 6 in., including as before. . ..175. 3d. a foot. 
 4 ft. 6 in. by 2 ft. 9 in., including as before. . . .145. a foot. 
 2 ft. by 2 ft., there being no gangway 55. a foot. 
 
 But the expense varies according to the soil in which the work is to 
 be executed. 
 
 Have you any particular form or size of sewer for draining courts or 
 small streets? Courts, generally speaking, we should do with a small 
 drain, that is, an 18 inch or 2 feet, at most. 
 
 A barrel drain ? Yes ; we could not extend that at all, of course ; 
 but if it were in a street, we should not have reference to the small 
 piece of sewer we might be executing at the moment, but should look 
 to whether it could be added to thereafter. 
 
 Having no general plan of the whole district, how do you know 
 when you are building a sewer in a main street what part of the dis- 
 trict is likely to drain into it? We know it must go into one main 
 sewer, and that sewer we know the depth of and its capability, the 
 execution of a collateral drain is dependent upon the main drain. It 
 would not be dependent upon the whole district, but upon the drain 
 into which it would go. 
 
 Must not the size of the sewer you make depend upon the quantity 
 of matter which is likely to drain through it? Of course, 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 207 
 
 If you have no general plan, how do you know what quantity of 
 matter is likely to drain into any particular sewer 1 We are endeavor- 
 ing, as fast as we can, to get a sewer into every street; but, of course, 
 we find that we are now overcharged as regards water, because all our 
 outlets are locked up seven hours out of twelve. We can only sew 
 into the river Thames during the period of low water. 
 
 If you had a general survey of the whole of the district, would not 
 that materially guide you as to the size of the sewjers which you have 
 to make] I think the surveyors are quite informed upon that subject. 
 Immediately the first Act of Parliament passed, enabling the Commis- 
 sion to make new sewers, they had a survey made, and ordered that 
 the sewers should be laid down at the lowest' possible level, and they 
 have been carried up the country from time to time. 
 
 All on one scale ? Yes, with a fall of about a foot in a mile. 
 
 And to a fixed datum line? Yes. 
 
 And those plans are in the offices of the surveyors 1 Yes. That 
 which used to be overflowed for months and months together in the 
 neighborhood of Rotherhite and Deptford, and which used to be let as 
 common pasture land, is now garden-ground. 
 
 You consider Rotherhite as now very fairly drained, do you 1 Roth- 
 erhite will never be very dry. There is so much water in it, so many 
 docks and canals, and so many things of that kind, that the percolation 
 of the water is such as to render that hardly possible, but it is very 
 much improved. 
 
 Have you any plans in reference to the drainage of Rotherhite in 
 particular? Mr. Newman has. 
 
 Have you any plans for the drainage of St. Saviour's, and the low 
 lying districts of the Borough ? Mr. PAnson would have. 
 
 Have you any reports upon those districts presented to your Courts'? 
 No. 
 
 You have yourself no plans for draining that district? No. Mr. 
 PAnson would have such plans. 
 
 Those plans are not deposited in the Court? The surveyors only 
 bring them to the Court whenever a Court is held, and has that subject 
 under consideration. 
 
 Where do they keep them ? In their own offices. 
 
 Is there any public office in each district? They have their own 
 offices. Mr. Gwilt's office is at the back of his house in Abingclon 
 street. 
 
208 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Are the offices open to the public ? No. 
 
 They are offices belonging 1 to individuals 1 Yes. 
 
 Upon an application for a new sewer, to whom do the parties apply 
 in the first instance ? If it were for a new sewer, they would apply 
 direct to me ; but if it were for a drain, or any local sewage, they would 
 go to the surveyor. 
 
 One of the surveyors lives in Westminster ; another in the city of 
 London, and the other lives in the Borough? Yes: all that parties 
 could see with rne would be the general plan ; but if they were to ask 
 me the question which way it would go, I must refer them to the sur- 
 veyor. 
 
 Would not it be for the public convenience to have a plan deposited 
 in your office, by means of which any one who wished to see the line 
 of sewage might see it at once, without reference to the surveyor? 
 T,here might be some convenience in it ; bu I have never found any 
 inconvenience from the other course. We do not find parties disposed 
 at all to make new sewers. It is not like the Westminster. district, 
 where they find proprietors willing to do so. We do, indeed, get a 
 contribution sometimes. We have now a contribution from a gentle- 
 man, in the Kent road, of 500/.; but that is the only one I am aware of. 
 
 Suppose a builder applies to you in reference to certain land he has 
 taken, and through which he wishes to lay down a drain, how do you 
 deal with that? He sends in a written request to the Commissioners. 
 The Commissioners meet and refer it to the surveyor to report upon it, 
 and his report contains all the information necessary for the Commis- 
 sioners to decide upon the application. 
 
 As to any payment in aid, what is the course ? We have no right to 
 say to a builder, " You shall not come into our sewer." All we can 
 say is, u If we make a sewer of such a size, you having the property 
 in the land to be drained by it, shall come into the sewer upon paying 
 the expense of doing so." Suppose a builder were to come and say, 
 "I am going to build so many houses upon such a piece of ground, for 
 my purposes a sewer of two feet will be ample :" if the Commissioners 
 see that they can subsequently add to that sewer, or that it would be 
 beneficial that it should be increased, they will take the money it would 
 cost to build the 2-foot sewer, and build one of a larger size, paying 
 the difference out of the public rates. 
 
 When the sewer is made for which any party applies, do you take it 
 in charge? Yes. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 209 
 
 Have you no jurisdiction by your surveyor during the time a private 
 sewer is being made ? We have now. 
 
 What jurisdiction have you? Under the recent Act, I consider that 
 all sewers which are to communicate with us are under our control. 
 
 Do you send your surveyor to see that a sewer is properly executed ? 
 We have his report afterwards that it is properly done. W T e do not 
 always put a man to watch the execution of the work. It is upon the 
 surveyor's report that it is properly done ; that the Commissioners con- 
 tribute to it. But it is very seldom they execute seWers themselves. It 
 is generally done through the Commissioners. 
 
 Upon the payment of a sum of money? Upon paying the esti- 
 mated cost, or paying three-fourths, or half, or whatever the amount is. 
 
 W 7 hat is the general proportion required 1 W T e seldom go beyond 
 half. 
 
 Suppose the case of n house in a court, and that the owner wants 
 that house drained, what is his course? Does he apply to the Com- 
 missioners or to the surveyor? He will apply to the surveyor. 
 
 Will you narrate the course which he would pursue ? The sur- 
 veyor would go down, and would then report to the Commission, 
 stating the length of drain that would be required, and the expense of it. 
 
 Does the applicant pay the surveyor a fee? There is a fee of half- 
 a-guinea. 
 
 What is your next regulation ? Supposing the application is approved, 
 what is your rule as to size or charge ? Do you put in the drain your- 
 selves, or does he ? We only put in the portion under the public way, 
 which we consider saves the applicant the necessity of going to any 
 other authority. 
 
 What is the size of the drain which you would require him to put 
 in ? It varies from 12 inches to 18. 
 
 Have you any smaller than 12 inches? No. 
 
 You have 12-inch brick drains? Yes; we are now using Doulton's 
 pipes. 
 
 Within what time have you put down any of these pipes ? Within 
 this month; but we do not find that they are cheaper to the parties. 
 They may be more effectual. 
 
 What is the price of your brick-drain? The slightest is something 
 like 4s. 6e/., I think. 
 
 And the lowest ? There would be very little difference, including 
 every thing. 
 
210 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 If permission is given, you put it in at a certain charge ? Will you 
 state what that charge is? It depends upon the quantity of digging, 
 and varies from 4s. 6d. to 5s. 6d. a foot. 
 
 Will you give the Commissioners a statement of the sizes, length 
 and expense of the sewers which you have executed since you were 
 examined before the Health of Towns Commission ; and the sizes 3 
 length and prices of the work which you propose to execute, and of 
 which you have Driven notice, with the cross sections'? This is more 
 with the surveyor than myself. 
 
 And also what number of house drains have been executed within 
 that period ? I can furnish that. 
 
 With relation to the new sewers which you have executed, what 
 proportion of house drains have joined on to them? I am sorry to say 
 that they are not numerous. 
 
 What is the reason that they are not numerous? I believe it arises 
 from the effluvia of the sewer. 
 
 Have not you heard it stated, as a matter of fact, that in those cases 
 where house drains have joined on to your sewers, the people who 
 have so joined, have not found it a benefit? I have. 
 
 In consequence of its giving an opening to effluvia which they were 
 previously free from ? Yes. 
 
 Have you directed your attention to the means of remedying that 
 evil? It has been under the consideration of the Commissioners for 
 some length of time. I wrote first to Professor Faraday upon the 
 subject. 
 
 Will you read his reply? It is dated : 
 
 " Dundee, 14th August. 
 
 ." SIR : My health will not permit me to enter into the consideration 
 of the many points that are offered to me, nor, I regret to say, into the 
 important one contained in your letter. I have the strongest convic- 
 tion that of all the ways of sweetening the air passages of sewers in a 
 large town, that of casting the vapors and miasma by myriads of pas- 
 sages into '.he midst of a very dense population, is the very worst ; it is 
 a return in part to the practice of leaving the sewers open. You will, 
 by inquiry, easily find out those who have thought on the question. I 
 have not, and cannot now closely consider it ; but I have often thought 
 that the many furnace and engine flues that rise up so abundantly in 
 various parts of London, might be made to compensate in part for the 
 nuisance which their smoke occasions, by being turned to account in 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 211 
 
 ventilating the sewers, and burning the putrid vapours generated in 
 them. 
 
 I am, sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 " M. FARADAY." 
 
 I also wrote to Mr. Holland, of Manchester. His answer is dated : 
 
 U 86, Grosvenor Street^ Manchester , 
 
 " September 3d, 1847. 
 
 " SIR, I regret that my absence from home, and other circumstan- 
 ces, have caused a delay in my reply to yours of the 25th ultimo. I 
 am glad to hear that the Commissioners of Sewers for Surrey and Kent 
 have determined upon trapping the sewers under their control, and that 
 they are at the same lime alive to the danger of confining the noxious 
 effluvia and gases. These dangers are not confined to the men who 
 may be employed in cleansing, but will be extended to all the inhab- 
 itants whose house drains may be insecurely trapped. Indeed, if the 
 sewers be laid on a loose gravelly soil, it is quite possible that the gases 
 of decomposition may extend their noxious influence to a very con- 
 siderable distance. There is no doubt that the injury|may be very con- 
 siderably abated by the employment of chlorine to decompose the 
 putrid gases, and of quick lime to absorb carbonic acid ; bnt I should 
 be very unwilling to trust to these, or any other chemical means, as 
 you can have no reasonable security that such will always be judi- 
 ciously employed, or even regularly employed at all, by men so reck- 
 less as those you probably have to deal with. The right remedy is the 
 regular removal of all collections of filth from the sewers by constantly 
 repeated flushings, and the formation of ventilating shafts. These 
 latter might ,be economically constructed by connecting the waste water 
 pipes from the roofs of the houses with the sewers, which would form 
 channels for the foul air from sewers for such an elevation, as that it 
 would be neither injurious nor annoying. These simple air shafts 
 would, I believe, be sufficient to allow of the escape of any foul air in 
 drains kept clear of deposit by constant flushing, but if more be desired, 
 very perfect ventilation might be effected, by connecting each of the 
 main district drains with the ash pit of some steam-engine furnace, or 
 if that very desirable arrangement cannot be managed, by erecting a 
 chimney with a small fire to heat the ascending column of air, acting 
 on the same principle as that on which coal mines are ventilated. I 
 do not expect that this will be necessary, but if it be, you will find 
 very full directions for doing it, in a Report by a Special Commission, 
 14 
 
212 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 appointed in Paris, composed of MM. D'Arcet, Girard, Parent du Cha- 
 telet, and others, published in the first part of the second volume of 
 the c Annales d'Hygiene Publique, 1829.' The means used at Paris, 
 consisted of an iron chimney placed over the gully-hole, in which a 
 fire in a cage was suspended, and kept burning as long as the men 
 were working. By the draught thus created, the foul air in the sewers 
 was removed, and the men enabled to work in safety. For sewers into 
 which the tide enters, or which are liable to fill when the tide rises, it 
 is particularly important that means for the escape of the air above the 
 level of the houses should be provided. As the sewers fill with water, 
 of course the air is displaced, and may cause annoyance far above the 
 direct influence of the tide. In Liverpool this is the case, in streets a 
 mile from the river, and nearly 100 feet above it. The air displaced 
 in the lower part of the sewers escapes by the gully-holes all over the 
 town, and persons far from the river may tell when the tide is rising by 
 the smell thus occasioned. I have no doubt this annoyance might be 
 entirely avoided by trapping the gully-holes, and connecting the waste 
 water spouts with the sewers, by which the air would be conveyed 
 above the houses. I think you would do well to consult Mr. Francis, 
 Surveyor of Sewers, &c., Town Hall, Manchester, with respect to some 
 improved tube drains and traps he has had constructed . They are made 
 of fire brick clay, are very cheap, and I think likely to be effectual. 
 I have no doubt, that if you apply for information to the chairman of 
 the Paving and Sewering Committee, Town Hall, Manchester, you will 
 get full information. I believe the drains and traps are manufactured 
 by Messrs. Hall of Dukinfield, but Mr. Francis will tell you. If any 
 part of this letter is not perfectly intelligible, or if I can give any further 
 assistance in forwarding so important an object as the security of the 
 public from the noxious exhalations of sewers, pray apply to me with- 
 out hesitation." 
 
 We have another opinion from from Mr. Donkin, who is one of our 
 Commissioners. I had sent him a copy of Dr. Faraday's letter. He 
 says : 
 
 " I infer from Dr. Faraday's letter, that he coincides with me, in the 
 general principle, as to the employment of a current of air for the ven- 
 tilation of the sewers ; but to effect this he intimates, that some of the 
 various chimneys already built for manufacturing purposes, in and 
 about London, might be made available for the purpose intended. 
 How far this expedient might be resorted to, I cannot tell, but I appre- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 213 
 
 hend that few chimneys, for manufacturing- purposes, are built larger 
 than required for the manufacture there carried on, and it is therefore 
 very improbable that any would be found to answer the purpose, and 
 even if such could be found, it is to be feared that the Commissioners 
 could not secure to themselves their constant use. But it appears to 
 rne absolutely necessary, that any chimneys which may be appropri- 
 ated to the ventilation of the sewers, should be built for that purpose, 
 and be, at all times, under the control of the Commissioners. A.S to 
 the present state of the sewers, the periodical effects produced by the 
 tides, and the means employed for cleansing them, I have received 
 much information from Mr. Barthram, as well as having personally 
 inspected one of the sluices. From what I have thus learnt, I foresee 
 some difficulties in carrying my plan into execution, but I believe none 
 of these to be insurmountable. Before treating of these difficulties, I 
 should state that, during every tide for a certain period, viz. about five 
 hours, the valves and sluices of the sewers are closed, and during that 
 period, the accumulation of water and sewerage matter becomes such 
 as to nearly or completely fill the sewers. This accumulation of the 
 water in the sewers commences on the valves or sluices being closed, 
 and, as it gradually rises, the mixture of pure and impure air pre- 
 viously in the sewers, is also gradually expelled by being forced 
 through the various openings into the streets, thus occasioning the nui- 
 sances so frequently complained of. On the ebb of the tide, the valves 
 and sluices are again opened, and remain so for a period of about seven 
 hours; the contents of the sewers are discharged into the river, and, 
 during such discharge, the' sewers are again filled with a mixture of 
 atmospheric and foul air, which latter will, at this time, be most copi- 
 ously produced, in consequence of being relieved of the superincum- 
 bent pressure of the water. It may be noticed here, that the foul 
 air so produced, (forming but a small proportion of the whole con- 
 tents of the sewers,) must be so diluted with atmosphoric air as to 
 render it inexplosive. The chief difficulties arise from the very frequent 
 openings or communications between the sewers and the atmospheric 
 air; for, if these openings are allowed to remain so numerous as at 
 present, the effect would be that on producing a draught or current of 
 air up the ventilating chimney from a sewer, that current would be 
 supplied, not only from the sewer itself, but from the numerous inlets 
 and openings in question ; whereas, to create a draught of fresh air 
 through a considerable extent of sewer, the admission for the fresh air 
 
214 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 should be at an opening- as far from the ventilating chimney as prac- 
 ticable. Means, therefore, must be found by the employment of air- 
 traps, or otherwise, to prevent the admission of air through the various 
 private drains and openings above-mentioned. Other openings, such 
 as those in existence for the purpose of carrying off the rain-water from 
 the streets and roads form like obstacles, and admit of similar remedies. 
 These remedies being applied, and a ventilating chimney being put 
 into action by a naked fire placed in and near the bottom thereof, 
 would secure the men in cleansing the sewers from any danger, thus 
 effecting one main object required. The other object in view is to 
 remove the nuisance caused by the escape of the noxions gases into the 
 streets through the various openings during the rise of the tide; and 
 this I would propose to effect, by the erection of a chimney over the 
 opening intended for the admission of fresh air during the emptying of 
 the sewers, which I would place at the extremity of that part, of the 
 sewer intended to be ventilated; thus, in fact, imitating the upcast and 
 downcast shafts used in coal-pits. Should it be necessary to prevent a 
 too great influx of air, from neighboring sewers entering into that 
 under ventilation, I would propose the use of swinging doors, which 
 may properly be self-acting air valves. The current of air, which it is 
 so desirable to produce, should, in every case, have a downward direc- 
 tion towards the sluices, but the men, when cleansing the sewer, (as is 
 the practice at present,) should proceed in the contrary direction, with 
 their backs to the current of air, as they would thus avoid inhaling the 
 noxious gases, arising during their disturbance of the mud." 
 
 Have you guaged the collateral or main lines of your sewers at all? 
 We know the area of the sewers. 
 
 Do you know the quantity which really passes through them ? have 
 you guaged any sewers, for example, in a street where there are noth- 
 ing but cesspools, as compared with the amount of sewer-water in other 
 places'? I have not. 
 
 No question of that kind has come before the Court 1 No ; the dis- 
 charge is very considerable the moment the valve is opened. 
 
 As to the sewers in courts or collateral streets, you cannot state the 
 contents? No ; nothing of the kind has come under my notice. 
 
 Nor under the notice of the Court? No. 
 
 You are obliged to give notice to the parishes of any lines of sewers 
 you are about to construct. Have you had any objections from par- 
 ishes as to the nature of the works you intend to carry on, or any sug- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 215 
 
 gestions of improvements? No person was attending 1 upon the subject 
 of those sewers, with the exception of a deputation from Deptford, and 
 their objection was, that the Commissioners were not appointed by 
 themselves, and they thought they ought to have the appointment. 
 
 There was no objection to the sewage work ? No. 
 
 Nor did you receive any suggestion of improvement? No. 
 
 Why are you required to give notices to the parishes? The Act of 
 Parliament requires it. It is an Act which was passed before my time. 
 I expect at that period it was contemplated that sewers would go 
 through private poperty. The Commissioners found afterwards how 
 difficult that would be, and they have always snbsequently made them 
 through public streets, but the notice is still given. 
 
 Is not the business of the Commission very much retarded by their 
 being required to give such notices? It is retarded a fortnight only; 
 there is also the expense and trouble of going round to all the parishes, 
 but that is all. 
 
 After you have given notice, what is the result? If the parishes 
 were to come before the Court and suggest a better line, the Court 
 would take the suggestion into consideration, but I have known no 
 instance of it. 
 
 Nor any suggestion as to an improvement in form or a reduction in 
 price ? No. There is an estimate generally, but, in the first instance, 
 it is a rough estimate ; it then goes to the contractor. 
 
 Would not it be a matter of great convenience if you had the same 
 jurisdiction as is exercised by the Commissioners of Paving? The offi- 
 cers of the two Commissions have always acted in concert together. 
 
 Would not it be more convenient for you to have the jurisdiction to 
 carry out the work, instead of having to go to another body for permis- 
 sion take up the pavements ? Yes. 
 
 Is the whole of your district under one Commission for Paving? 
 No ; there are a great many Paving Commissions, but not so many as 
 there are on the Middlesex side of the water. . : 
 
 How many Paving Boards are there within your jurisdiction ? Thir- 
 teen. 
 
 Do the surveyors of those various Boards charge you a uniform price 
 for taking up and relaying the pavement? The Commissioners of 
 Sewers do that; generally it is an agreement with the pavement con- 
 tractor to do the work, but wherever we disturb any pavements we 
 replace them. 
 
216 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What do you charge per yard for doing so? It varies from 9d. to 1$. 
 6d., according to soil and materials. 
 
 The contractor pays yon for relaying the pavement, does he? No, 
 we pay the contractor. If it is necessary to take tip the pavements for 
 the purpose of making a sewer, we make that part of our contract ; 
 and our contractor makes an agreement with the contractor for keeping 
 the pavements in repair, as to the sum of money which he has to pay 
 him for relaying the pavements. 
 
 Do you know whether the contractors of the various Paving Boards 
 charge a uniform rate? I do not know. 
 
 With respect to private works, do you charge a sum at once to them, 
 or have you any means of distributing the charge over a period of time? 
 We have the power of distributing it. 
 
 What are your means of doing so? They exist under the present 
 Act of Parliament. All sums above .10 may be thrown over twenty 
 years. 
 
 Take a case of a sum under .10, how may that be dealt with ? 
 The Commission decides upon the course. 
 
 What may the Commissioners do ? They have said the payment 
 shall not exceed 20s. a-year, so that if it is <5, it will be spread over 
 five years. 
 
 Supposing it to be a class of house inhabited by laboring people, or 
 one of the fourth class of houses where the payment would be .5, it 
 would be required to be paid for in five years? Yes. 
 
 Supposing a house to be held by a person who has only the remain- 
 der of a lease of five years, he would have to pay in those five years 
 for that which would probably last during thirty ? Yes. 
 
 Would not the circumstance of his having to pay such a sum, form 
 in itself a very great obstruction to the application of drainage to cot- 
 tages of that class? I am sorry to say that the payment of any 
 money by the owners of small houses, very much retards any im- 
 provement. 
 
 Supposing that cost of o to be spread over a period of thirty years, 
 and to be repaid by annual instalments, it would amount to 5.?. lid. 
 per annum, principal and interest at five per cent, per annum. If, 
 instead of requiring 1 per annum, or 6 in five years, it were only 
 5s. lid., which was required, would not that be not only more correct 
 in principle, but give an enormous facility to the drainage of that class 
 of houses ? But I am afraid the public would lose a great deal of 
 money in that way. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 217 
 
 In what way ? In getting- those small payments. 
 
 You would charge rates upon that small property ? Yes, but they 
 are generally compounded for by the landlord. 
 
 Would he not compound for this 5s. lie?.? He would have five 
 years to pay it in, according to the present plan. 
 
 Would not it be more equitable to him if he had thirty ? It might 
 be so. 
 
 Would not it facilitate the drainage of this class of houses by per- 
 sons having short interests a lessee, for instance, having only a term 
 of five years 1 Yes. 
 
 And so with all other classes of houses of that description? Yes, but 
 it would create a great deal of work to be done. There is an instance 
 where the Commissioners are going compulsorily to arch here (pro- 
 ducing the same) is a plan of it ; here is the name of every individual, 
 the length of feet he has got to pay, some of the cases amounting only 
 to 31. or 41. ; and in this little account there are twenty or thirty debtor 
 and creditor accounts to keep. 
 
 Would there be more difficulty than in levying every other species 
 of rates ? It would be, generally speaking, added to the rate. 
 
 And it would be a convenient consolidation to collect it with the 
 poors'-rate, or with any other ? Yes. 
 
 Have you not a separate collection for your sewers'-rates ? Yes. 
 
 What is your cost of collection in the pound? Ninepence. 
 
 At what intervals do you levy your rates? Up to this time it has 
 been every second year, but we have now an annual rate. 
 
 Have not you had longer intervals than every second year? Not 
 latterly. 
 
 You propose to expend c100,000 in the drainage of the district, will 
 that come out of the general rate, or be levied upon those portions to 
 which the new sewers will be applied ? Some small portion will be 
 levied upon the owners of the side of the sewer, but that, according to 
 the Act of Parliament, is only to one-half of the amount. 
 
 The rest will be levied over the whole district ? Yes. 
 
 Will not some portion of the remainder of the district, which is un- 
 drained, have to contribute to that for a length of time, supposing the 
 drainage not to be general ? Yes. 
 
 Are not there many portions of your district which have paid contri- 
 butions to the drainage for many years which have had none them- 
 selves ? No new sewers ; their drainage has been improved by the 
 
218 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 works which have been executed, but they have had no new sewers 
 brought to their doors. There are some streets without sewers which 
 have paid sewers'-rates. 
 
 How many years may they have paid sewers'-rates? I cannot speak 
 beyond my own time, I should say some have paid rates for the whole 
 time I have been clerk that is, twenty-seven years. 
 
 The remonstrances of the parishes have been rather at the money 
 not being 1 expended in their own jurisdiction, have they not? Yes, on 
 account of their having 1 no voice in its direction, and considering that 
 each parish should have the money laid out in it which it raises, which 
 is very erroneous, because that which is done at the lower part of the 
 level is of as much importance to the middle part as any other. 
 
 Supposing the system of parochial representation upon any local 
 Board of that kind, and supposing your present system still to exist, of 
 making the whole district pay for any one part, would that representa- 
 tion mend the matter, or make it anything more than a struggle be- 
 tween a majority and a minority to get a particular portion drained ? 
 I do not think it would. The Commissioners now acting are taken 
 from the landholders of the neighborhood, who are the most interested 
 in the matter, it being considered a landlord's tax, and not a tenant's 
 tax. 
 
 Is not that a great inducement to any preponderating influence to 
 endeavor to get their own districts drained first? No doubt of it. 
 
 Do not you think that diffusing the charges over longer periods of 
 time, and making each district pay for itself, would obviate much in- 
 convenience and mueh injustice of that kind ? Certainly it would as 
 to time, but not as to all the money raised in the parish being expended 
 in it. Of course the new sewers are a very considerable item in the 
 expense. 
 
 Parishes have been paying for collateral drainage as well as main 
 drainage, they having no drainage themselves ? Yes, to some degree. 
 
 What money have you paid, or are you paying, for cleansing sew- 
 ers'? For cartage of the' soil 3s. 6d. a load. 
 
 What is the total amount of money you expend in that way in the 
 course of the year? In the last year, the foremen, laborers and cartage 
 cost 3,592 Us. 8d. 
 
 You probably do as much as you can in assisting the flow of the 
 water by flushing ? Yes, but still there will be a deposit. 
 
 In what districts are you obliged to cart ? In very few of the main 
 brick arched sewers ; it is more from the open sewers . 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 219 
 
 Have you any account at all of the quantity of deposits in your col- 
 lateral sewers? I should think the surveyors might give you that 
 information, but it does not come under my cognizance. 
 
 You have made no alteration in the system of cleansing by carting? 
 There is considerably less cartage now than there used to be since 
 the plan of raking and flushing has been adopted. 
 
 Where it has not been adopted the carting remains the same ? Yes, 
 we have always done as much as we could ; clean water and dirty 
 water is the same to us we have, in fact, too much water. 
 
 What proportion of your sewers are kept now cleansed by flushing? 
 Principally the arched sewers, the surveyors could speak to the pro- 
 portion. 
 
 You stated that your Act of Parliament was obtained only this year? 
 Only this year. 
 
 Have you any means of judging whether, since you have had the 
 power of distributing the payment over a great number of years, more 
 applications are likely to be made for drainage? I think it is hardly 
 known at present ; we are endeavoring to make it known as much as 
 we can ; we have not had many applications about it, as so many per- 
 sons are looking at the result of this Commission. 
 
 In the case of a sewer being made up a court, have you any power 
 to compel the owners of houses to carry drains into it? We have the 
 power now. 
 
 Do you use that power? We are intending to do so. 
 
 Have you used it at all ? Not yet. 
 
 How long have you had that power ? Only within this last year ; 
 the Royal Assent was given to the Act on the 22d of July last. The 
 Commissioners met, and their first object was to endeavor to get money. 
 I was directed to see the Commissioners for issuing Exchequer Bills on 
 loan, but I found that they were without the means of assisting us. 
 I have, since that, been to most of the- principal fire offices and life 
 offices, to see if I could get any money from them, and I think the 
 application was only entertained by one. I have, since that, adver- 
 tised ; the sum named was ,50,000; the Commission, however, only 
 got .8,000. 
 
 One of your surveyors, Mr. Joseph Gwilt, was asked, with reference 
 to the cleansing a sewer : " Will you state whether the soil taken 
 from the sewer was carted away, or did the men throw it up upon the 
 side of the sewer npon the banks of the road ?" The answer is, " They 
 
220 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 threw it up upon the earth on the banks of the sewers. That has been 
 the invariable practice since I have been surveyor, and it was the prac- 
 tice during the time my father was surveyor; we never cart any away, 
 except the soil of sewers crossing 1 public roads." Is that the practice 
 now ? It is pretty much the practice in open sewers which go through 
 pasture land. 
 
 He is asked: "Are you aware of any practical inconvenience 
 arising from throwing up the soil upon the side of the sewer?" It is, 
 doubtless, a nuisance to the owners of the land upon which it is thrown 
 in populous neighborboods." There we cart away, but in open marsh 
 lands and pasture lands we leave it, and there are only two instances 
 we know of in which parties have required us to take it away, and then 
 we did so ; but we generally let it lie upon the bank till it becomes of 
 use as manure, and then it goes into the land. 
 
 In closed sewers and in populous districts, you do not leave it, but 
 cart it away 1 Yes, we always cart it away in populous places and in 
 all public roads. 
 
 As quickly as you can ? Yes. 
 
 By sending men and cleansing in the ordinary way immediately ? 
 Yes. 
 
 Have you always people at work for that purpose ? Yes. 
 
 Would it be generally upon the same day that you cart it away ? I 
 should say always on the same day ; the cart is waiting. The 3s. 6d. 
 we pay includes also the finding of a depot. 
 
 In flushing, do you ever use any artificial means ? We create a 
 backwater. 
 
 You use artificial raking 1 Yes ; always by men going in and 
 raking first of all. 
 
 Was some of this work done at the time of the cholera, the cleansing 
 in open sewers'? There were several sewers done which had never 
 been taken by the Commission, but which were then taken. The 
 Commissioners felt that they were doing what was right; a subscrip- 
 tion was raised, and a great portion of the expense was defrayed by 
 
 that means. 
 
 Was not there a complaint at that time as to those means of cleansing 
 
 sewers 1 Yes. 
 
 Was not it the opinion of your Court that the public opinion about 
 its being injurious was erroneous? Yes, arising in a great measure 
 from the fact, which was ascertained, I believe, by the members of all 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 221 
 
 the Commissions in London, that not one of the men so employed 
 suffered by the cholera. 
 
 Therefore, you think that the public were mistaken 1 As regards 
 the cholera, I do ; but that it is a nuisance there can be no doubt. 
 
 It is offensive to the smell ; but it is not the belief of the Commission 
 that it is injurious with respect to engendering disease 1 No. 
 
 None of your surveyors or engineers differ in that conclusion? They 
 do not seem to do so. 
 
 How was your Commission created? By the Crown. 
 
 When was the last Commission created? On the 15th of August, 
 1840, the fourth year of her present Majesty. 
 
 Do you ever have complaints from occupiers of courts and alleys of 
 the want of drainage? We have had one or two which we have at- 
 tended to, but with very great difficulty. We found the landlord not 
 at all disposed to pay any portion of the expense. We did it with the 
 assistance of the Commissioners of Pavements. We did not feel that 
 we ought to do so ; it was doing work which we thought the landlord 
 should do, and we applied to the Commissioners of Pavements, who 
 felt that the place was not in the state of cleanliness it should be, and 
 they contributed to the expense of making the drain. 
 
 Out of the paving-rate ? Yes. 
 
 No question has arisen as to the quantity of water in the district 
 excepting that you are encumbered with too much of it? Our upland 
 water is too much. 
 
 Yon have never sought, then, for any aid in respect of water from 
 any companies? No; we have indifferent places sluices for letting 
 down water from one level to another. 
 
 How do you manage with collateral drains ? We throw as much 
 water as we can into the collaterals, but the main lines are our principal 
 object. I hardly know of a complaint with respect to collaterals. If 
 the main lines of sewers are kept clear, the others are generally kept 
 clear also. 
 
 What is the size of the collaterals ? They vary. If the Commis- 
 sioners can foresee that they can hereafter take them up a longer dis- 
 tance, they make them of a larger size ; but if it is a cul-de-sac, of 
 course it is determined that the drain shall only be of a small size. I 
 should say that in all our main lines of sewers there are none less than 
 4 feet 6 by 2 feet 9. 
 
 The collateral sewers are affected by the main sewers? Yes, every 
 
222 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 tide they are filled ; therefore there is the operation of flushing- going 
 on. I think unless it is a very high sewer that every one of our sewers 
 is filled with water every tide. 
 
 Are you aware of the extent to which water-closets are in use in the 
 district 1 Very little. 
 
 Notwithstanding that, during the time the sluices are shut the sewers 
 are filled with water? Yes. 
 
 That water you imagine to be water draining from the high ground ? 
 Yes, and partly from the sewer itself. We have rendered land, 
 which you could hardly get upon, as hard as possible by sewage. 
 
 You say that the water comes from the land itself. Is that water in- 
 fluenced at all by the tide? I do not think we find it so much. It 
 may be influenced by it in some small degree. In executing a sewer at 
 Camberwell some time ago, a great body of water suddenly burst 
 upon us. 
 
 Where do you imagine that water came from? We expect it came 
 from some higher land. 
 
 Though water-closets are very little in use, there is always a sufficient 
 body of water flowing off the land into your sewers to fill them nearly 
 during the time the sluices are compelled to be shut on account of the 
 tide ? Yes. 
 
 You stated that the men frequently went into the sewers in order to 
 loosen the deposit. How frequently do they do that? I cannot say 
 how frequently they do it. It would depend upon the surveyor's other 
 work. It is constantly done. 
 
 Are you aware whether they do it habitually at certain periods, or do 
 they wait till some complaint is made ? They do it without reference 
 to any complaint. The complaint would not arise from the deposit in 
 a sewer. The public would not know of it. 
 
 Would not they know it by the additional offensive smell from the 
 gully-hole ? I fear there is always a sufficiently offensive smell to ren- 
 der that difficult. 
 
 Have you a system of man-holes through the district ? Yes. 
 
 Are men put down with considerable regularity ? Yes. 
 
 Are the gully-shoots under your own control ? Yes. 
 
 What is the contract price of putting down a gully-shoot upon the 
 average ? I do not know that I can speak to that. The surveyor can 
 give that information. 
 
 You say that you find great difficulty in inducing landlords to sup- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 223 
 
 port any share of the expense of the drainage ? Yes, landlords of 
 small property. 
 
 Are the landlords generally small proprietors in your district 1 No, 
 there are some of extensive properly ; there we do not find so much 
 difficulty ; but it is the owners of small houses whose object is to get 
 as much money as they can and to spend as little ; they do not con- 
 ceive that they will get 6d. more for their property if they make better 
 sewage. 
 
 Do you believe that ? No, I do not ; but they are impressed with 
 the notion. 
 
 You believe it to be a short-sighted and erroneous notion 1 I_am sat- 
 isfied it is so ; but I am afraid it operates strongly. 
 
 Is the sewage of small houses generally compounded for by the land- 
 lords ? The rates are. We are authorized by the Act of Parliament 
 to take the composition of the poor-rates, and that is generally followed 
 out. 
 
 The same mode of compounding for the additional charge where 
 sewers are made in courts would apply to the general sewage rate ? 
 Yes. 
 
 When do you expect to enforce the new regulation as respects the 
 drainage into sewers? The attention of the Commissioners has not yet 
 been so much directed to that, as to arching open sewers in populous 
 parts. They have now eight or ten reports before them ; they are now 
 being carried out, and the Court are rather anxious to see the result of 
 those before they proceed with the others. They were rather aston- 
 ished besides to see the great number of parties who were to be called 
 on to contribute a portion of this expense, and the trouble it would 
 give, and it becomes a question how far it can be done. The object of 
 compelling parties to communicate with sewers was discussed at a 
 meeting of the Commissioners, and it was rather considered that that 
 subject might fairly go by till some complaint was made, and the arch- 
 ing of open sewers which was a crying and known nuisance be taken 
 up first. 
 
 It is a matter which they are considering ? Yes. The material 
 point which they were considering I should say was to get rid of the 
 effluvia, because they do feel that there is a just complaint made by par- 
 ties who make communications to the sewers of the effluvia arising 
 from them, which is hardly to be stopped. They make foul air tubes, 
 but it does not always succeed* 
 
224 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The Commissioners consider that, by compelling the owners of 
 houses to join, they would be making them pay for that which might 
 inflict a nuisance upon them 1 Yes. 
 
 Have you had complaints to that effect, that a communication by 
 drain from a house into the sewer has really made the house more dis- 
 agreeable to live in or more unhealthy 1 More disagreeable I have. I 
 know the fact myself that it is so. I have recently had a communica- 
 tion made at our own office with the sewer, and at times it is so offen- 
 sive that we hardly know how to sit there. 
 
 Does your Act give you the power to summon a parly before the 
 County Courts to recover a portion of the charge before you create the 
 expense 1 No, not by express enactment. 
 
 Do you think it would be very beneficial to have that power ? We 
 have it now, I think. We could distrain, and I consider that we should 
 have the power of going to the County Courts. 
 
 Would it not be more advantageous if you had the power to enforce 
 payment just the same as you have in the instance of new sewers being 
 made before the sewer is executed ? It would be desirable ; but I do 
 not know that the public would like it. 
 
 In the case of a new sewer, you say, " Pay so much money, and we 
 will make the sewer 1" That is a voluntary act on the part of the 
 payee. 
 
 Would it not be desirable to have that power with respect to small 
 houses'? It would be desirable. 
 
 You were alluding just now to the Commissioners' intention of cover- 
 ing open sewers in populous districts ; where do those open sewers ex- 
 ist in populous districts ? There is hardly a place I could put my hand 
 on but has some wretched open sewers. 
 
 Will you name one or two ? There is a very bad one in Christ- 
 church, dividing the parish of St. George from Christchurch. There is 
 another very bad one in the Maze near the hospitals ; three or four in 
 St. Olave's ; one so bad, that the guardians of the Union were anxious 
 to contribute towards the expense of closing it, the Commissioners de- 
 clining to pay the whole expense, feeling that it was relieving the land- 
 lord, who ought to contribute. 
 
 What are those collections of stagnant water behind the Old Kent 
 road, between that and Bermondsey ? They are ancient mill-streams; 
 they are private property ; all the Commissioners can do is, to make 
 the parties keep up the banks and cleanse them. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 225 
 
 When you were visited by the severe hail storm in August, 1846, of 
 course that storrn fell upon some districts which were drained, and 
 others undrained, what was the relative amount of drainage ; had you 
 any report upon the subject? None at all; there was very little dam- 
 age except the breaking of windows. 
 
 There was no overflow 1 Very little. 
 
 How do you account for that? I rather think our sewers were 
 nearly empty at the time ; it had been very dry weather, and there 
 was not much collection in the sewers. 
 
 Did you hear any complaints of flooding in those places where there 
 were no sewers ? No, we had no complaints whatever. We have now 
 a very material point before us. which is the crack in the river bank at 
 Rotherhithe, which appears to be getting worse. Mr. Shaw has been 
 down ; he is the agent for Lord Carteret, on whose property it is, and 
 I dare say they will attend to it ; but it is evidently increasing, and it 
 is supposed to be arising from the removal of ballast out of the river. 
 
 Have you any ' special measures of any kind further than those 
 respecting the sewers before you? No, except the bank of the 
 Thames. We are very anxious'wilh respect to that, and there appears 
 to be some difficulty about it. We are forming a self-acting trap now 
 for the gully-holes. It is in the form of a dish ; when it fills with 
 water it falls and lets the water out and rises again ; but we are fearful, 
 till this question respecting stopping the effluvia in sewers is settled, to 
 use it. Those gully-holes are now an escape and safety-valve for the 
 public. 
 
 You infer that it might destroy the present ventilation of the sewers? 
 Yes, as the lower part of the sewers next the outlets gets filled, it 
 drives the effluvia either up through those outlets or up into the country ; 
 therefore it is very often smelt at a mile or two distance, as at Liver- 
 pool ; in fact, wherever there is an outlet. 
 
 You have heard the same thing with respect to your own district as 
 occurs at Liverpool, that in the upper districts there is a variation of 
 the smell with the flow? Yes. 
 
 As sewers are now constructed, those gully-holes perform two essen- 
 tial services ; they let the surface-water in, and the foul air out? Yes. 
 
 Which of those two do you consider of the most importance? The 
 letting the water in is absolutely necessary. 
 
 Do you find the deposit in the sewers very considerable? In some 
 sewers we do. Wherever we get any thing like concrete it settles and 
 
226 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 forms a hard substance. In a Macadamized road, for instance, there 
 is always a hard substance under a gully-hole. 
 
 Are you ever obliged, in those sewers, to break the arching of the 
 sewer, in order lo clean it 0111? No ; we have always entrances to the 
 sewers by means of those man- holes. When they are built there are 
 man-holes left and covered over with cast iron. 
 
 Then, except from the open sewers, you never cast out any soil ? 
 We cast the soil out of those man-holes occasionally ; not very often ; 
 perhaps once in three or four years. 
 
 Do you mean once in three or four years in every portion, or only 
 in some portions? The surveyor will be able to give the Commission- 
 ers information upon that subject. We consider that we have our 
 arched sewers flushed every tide by means of the backwater. 
 
 No. 20. 
 JOSEPH GWILT, ESQ. 
 
 You are the author of the valuable work called the " Encyclopaedia 
 of Architecture?" I am. 
 
 And you are also surveyor of the Lambeth district of sewers? Yes. 
 
 Will you have the goodness to state what, within the last three years, 
 the undertakings of the Commission have been in the district over 
 which you preside? From the 24th June last, for three years back- 
 wards : 
 
 Feet 
 
 At North Brixlon 530 
 
 From Kennington Cross to the Horns, Kennington Common.. . 1 S 840 
 Through the grounds of the Philanthropic Society to St. George's 
 
 road 670 
 
 In Lambeth Walk... . 1,070 
 
 From Alfred place, through Albert square, to the Clapham road 1,310 
 
 Have there been many drains laid down in small streets or alleys of 
 the district? I should say in alleys none. In my district the alleys 
 are very small in number ; I can hardly bring lo recollection what I 
 should cull an alley in Lambeth. 
 
 Or courts? Yes, or courts. It is a district which very much differs 
 from the metropolis generally, having been formed recently, within my 
 own recollection almost* 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 227 
 
 Have the undertakings of the Commission lately been principally 
 main sewers or collateral ? Principally main sewers. As the Commis- 
 sioners have come into more money they have expended it in main 
 sewers . 
 
 Has there been any difference made in the size of the sewers within 
 the last three years ? I should say certainly not. 
 
 Nor in the collaterals? No. 
 
 Neither in size nor construction ? No. I think in construction they 
 have lately been made of less thickness than used to be the case. 
 
 What is the ordinary size for a main sewer? They vary according 
 to the extent of the district that they are to drain ; the largest size of 
 main sewer in my district has been 5 feet by 3 feet 6; that has been 
 diminished down to as low as 3 feet by 2 feet in the collateral sewers, 
 proportioning the dimensions to the quantity of water the sewer has to 
 discharge. 
 
 What quantity of water would a rain of one inch in depth in the 
 hour furnish from each acre per hour to the sewers, from roads arid 
 houses? I beg to observe on the question that the fall of rain men- 
 tioned is one which I should say does not ever occur. The average 
 quantity of rain falling in nine years in South Lambeth, was only 
 22' 7 inches per annum. An inch of rain in twenty-four hours is a 
 heavy fall. 
 
 What quantity per acre in the hour would flow from the rural dis- 
 trict in such a rain ? This would entirely depend on the absorbency of 
 the soil. 
 
 Do you arrange with the water companies to give their supplies of 
 water during the time of ebb tides ? No. 
 
 How do you ascertain the quantity of work the sewer is likely to 
 have to do ? We know what the capacity will be from experience, 
 but it is a very difficult matter to provide against a sudden accumulation 
 of water. 
 
 Have you any old sewers in your district? A very large portion of 
 them, I should think two-thirds of them, are old sewers, that is to say, 
 they are old sewers which have been, in many cases, on the same site 
 replaced by new brick sewers. 
 
 Are you quite acquainted with all the old sewers in your district, or 
 do you find some occasionally of which you had no previous know- 
 ledge ? I do not think that there is one in the whole place, I do not 
 know. I have been surveyor to the Commission forty-two years. 
 15 
 
22S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Have you an office ? Only my own office. 
 
 Supposing anybody wishes to ascertain anything with respect to the 
 sewers, they must come to your office ? Yes. 
 
 Where is your office ? In Abingdon street, Westminster. If I were 
 to take an office in the district, I should be further off from some parts 
 of the district of Lambeth than I am at the present moment. 
 
 That is your private office? Yes. 
 
 You state that you have the levels almost in every part of the dis- 
 trict, will you have the goodness to furnish one of the engraved plans 
 of the district with those levels marked upon it having reference to 
 Trinity high water mark as a datum? The engraved plan is on a 
 small scale, I have therefore furnished a longitudinal section of one 
 principal line of sewer, by which will be seen the levels desired at all 
 its points. It is to be observed that this may be taken as an example 
 of the details possessed by me. 
 
 Does the whole of the water from the high lands pass off by the 
 sewer that has its outlet near Vauxhall bridge? No. 
 
 Does not a portion of those waters pass to London bridge, or to 
 Rotherhithe, through Mr. I'Anson's district or Mr. Newman's? The 
 portion eastward of the crest of the high lands passes off into Mr. 
 Newman's district. 
 
 Does not a portion find its way into the other sewers in the lowland 
 district? Yes, as in the answer to the foregoing question. 
 
 If all the high lands drained to other sewers than those sewers used 
 for the drainage of the low lands, what area would ihe low lands 7 sew- 
 ers have to drain? The sewer in my district, which drains the high 
 lands, takes an extremely minute portion of the drainage of the low 
 lands, not a hundredth part, and that only near the mouth. 
 
 Point out that area on the plan? A small portion of Kennington 
 Oval, and some land to the west, and some 200 or 300 feet in length 
 of the South Lambeth road, southward from Vnuxhall turnpike. 
 
 What portion of that area, in acres, drains to the deep sewers, and 
 what poition, in acres, drains by mere field ditches on the high level 
 drains? None. 
 
 Is there any general plan of the district laid down to a certain scale 
 and to a certain datum line?-- There is a plan of the district drained 
 by the Kent and Surrey Commission reduced from a very large plan 
 taken many years ago, to which the streets, &c., have been added. 
 
 Besides this plan, there is no other general plan upon which any- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 229 
 
 body desiring* it could at once see the levels of the various sewers in 
 the district? If wanted, there is in my office. 
 
 Will you state what you have in your office to convey that infor- 
 mation ? Sections of, I should say, every sewer, certainly of every 
 sewer, of any moment in the district. 
 
 What is the area draining" into that sewer of which you have already 
 given a section ? About 300 acres, or perhaps rather more. 
 
 What is the common run of water therein per minute or per hour? 
 The run varies according to the depth ; as an average, the discharge 
 may be taken at about 20 tons per minute. 
 
 That plan probably would give you the relative levels of all the 
 sewers in the district? Yes; it will. It is not in one plan. It is a 
 series of sections brought up from the mouth of each sluice into the 
 upper part of the country. 
 
 Longitudinal sections? Yes. 
 
 Have you cross sections of all your sewers as well? All that have 
 been executed from them. From them, as a basis, the collaterals are 
 run up, and sections are taken and laid down at the time, and then de- 
 posited in my office. They would be to the public generally almost 
 unintelligible I should say. 
 
 If any builder were to obtain permission to make a sewer, is there 
 any general level of the whole drainage of the area by which he could 
 be guided, or would it be necessary for him or for you to take all the 
 levellings afresh ? -There is not a single point in the district, if a 
 builder applied to me to know to what depth he could go, as to which 
 I could not give him information, he could get it in my office, even if 
 I were not there. 
 
 Supposing he were a builder of a row of houses, and wished to make 
 a sewer there, would not he have to take all the levellings afresh ? 
 No ; that would be done by myself, if there were such a case, if such 
 a thing became necessary, but it scarcely could, for we have levels 
 almost in every part of the district. 
 
 No particular alterations have taken place within the last three 
 years, either in the size or the manner of executing works in your dis- 
 trict? I thir^k not. 
 
 Mr. WagstafTe, who is a surgeon of a parochial district in Lambeth, 
 gives the following evidence : <{ Has the condition of your district been 
 materially improved since the last visitation of cholera? Additional 
 common sewers have been made, but in very few instances, indeed, 
 
230 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 have house-drains been made into them. Even large houses, in which 
 the better classes live, have no drains into the sewers; they continue to 
 have nothing but cesspools; water-closets are very rare, even in the 
 better class of houses, excepting in newly built houses. Then the 
 streets, courts, and alleys, in which the poor live, are wholly unim- 
 proved ? They are not improved ; indeed, being mor3 crowded, they 
 are even worse, and the quantity of decomposing animal and vegeta- 
 ble matter about them is greater." Is that, in your opinion, a fair 
 description of the district? I think it is. It is a very common case, 
 after a good line of sewer has been made down a road, that very few 
 of the houses along it avail themselves of the opportunity of draining 
 into it; take, for instance, the road leading from the Asylum up to 
 Kennington-cross : Seven or eight years ago, a very capacious sewer 
 was made down that road, giving facility to every house in the line to 
 drain into it. I should not like to state the exact number of houses 
 that applied for permission to go into the sewer, but I think I should 
 be strictly within the mark if I said that not twenty of the houses 
 along that line applied for leave to go into the sewer after it had been 
 made. 
 
 What class of houses were they ? A very good class ; none of them 
 lower than ,40 a year, certainly extending up to 10, and per- 
 haps 80. 
 
 Then those houses would have nothing but surface drainage 1 They 
 would have nothing but cesspools. 
 
 Do not you think that it would be a great advantage to the public if 
 power was given to every person to come into the sewer when there 
 was one made? Doubtless. Every person is, and always has been, 
 permitted to drain into the sewer, on application to the Commissioners. 
 It was only in the Act passed this year that we got power to take care 
 that should be done. 
 
 Have those powers been exercised at all ? They are in course of ex- 
 ercise. At this moment, I am engaged in making out a long list for 
 putting the Act in force in that respect. 
 
 Of course, if the belter class of houses you have been speaking of 
 would not avail themselves of the opportunity they hacj of having a 
 drain from their houses into the sewer, the smaller class of houses in 
 the back streets are wholly without the means of doing so 1 It is not 
 consequent upon my answer, with great submission, but a fortiori, if 
 the rich do not apply the poor do not. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 231 
 
 Mr. Drew was questioned why they did not apply; he says, " There 
 is a just complaint made by parties who make communications to the 
 sewers, of the effluvia arising from them, which is hardly to be stopped; 
 they make foul-air tubes, but it does not always succeed. The Com- 
 missioners consider, that by compelling the owners of houses to join, 
 they would be making them pay for that which might inflict a nuisance 
 upon them? Yes. Have you had complaints to that effect, that a 
 communication by drain from a house into the sewer has really made 
 the house more disagreeable to live in, or more unhealthy 1 More 
 disagreeable I have. I know the fact myself that it is so. I have re- 
 cently had a communication made at our own office with the sewer ; 
 and at times it is so offensive that we hardly know how to sit there." 
 Mr. WagstafTe being asked, " Have you observed, in houses commu- 
 nicating with the sewers, any instances of noisome smells, arising from 
 their foul condition ?" says, " Yes, I have. Is this common in the 
 district? I have frequently noticed it. Are not the houses frequently 
 flooded with sewer-water, as well as subject to poisonous smells ? Yes, 
 they are. In such cases is not the communication of the house with 
 the sewers a very doubtful benefit? In these cases it is certainly of 
 doubtful benefit." I am scarcely prepared to say that that is my 
 opinion, because the improvements which have been recently proposed 
 for trapping the drains of houses, and which I hope will ultimately be- 
 come universal, would, if not altogether, prevent the smell which comes 
 up the drains, very much lessen it. 
 
 Are the bottoms of your sewers all under high-water mark ? Every 
 one of them, except a sewer which carries off the water from the high 
 lands, falling into the Thames near Vauxhall bridge. All the others 
 are completely under high-water mark ; in short, the beds of them are 
 laid down pretty nearly to low-water mark, with as small a fall as it is 
 safe to give them, from the circumstance of the whole of that district 
 being so much below the level of high-water mark. 
 
 How long during each tide are your sluice-gates shut? Taking an 
 average between neap and spring tides, they run from four to five hours. 
 
 Out of the twelve? Yes. 
 
 During the seven hours the sluice-gates are shut the sewer-water is 
 penned up in the sewer? Yes, the sewer is a reservoir during that 
 period. 
 
 Must not that necessarily occasion a good deal of foul gas being 
 evolved? No doubt of it. 
 
232 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Supposing those traps to be efficacious, where do you propose to dis- 
 pose of those gases? That is a matter under consideration. The Com- 
 missioners at this moment are consulting chemists to see whether the 
 air cannot be burnt in shafts. 
 
 Is that a great difficulty ? It is. 
 
 How often do you cleanse out your sewers ? They are in the 
 constant course of cleansing. 
 
 What is the cost of cleansing the other districts ? I do not know : it 
 is very considerably more than in mine. 
 
 Within your district, what do you pay for cleansing? It is between 
 600 and .700 a-year. 
 
 Have you any open sewers in your district? Yes. 
 
 What proportion do they bear to the closed sewers? There are 
 near fourteen miles of closed sewers, and about eight miles of open 
 sewers. 
 
 Is there any plan in contemplation now by the Commissioners, for 
 closing the sewers ? At this moment there are contracts in existence 
 for covering over two very extensive lines of open sewers. 
 
 Of what length ? One is about 1400 feet, and the other about 860 
 feet. 
 
 How many years, according to your present expenditure, will you 
 be closing those sewers? Now, I apprehend we shall be able to do it 
 in a very short time under the recent Act of Parliament. 
 
 Can you do it in any way, except by borrowing money ? We cannot 
 do it without borrowing money, however that is a part of the finance, 
 which I had rather not speak to. 
 
 Do you cleanse out the open sewers? Not altogether. 
 
 Do you do so at all ? Yes, in many cases where they lie so dead as 
 they do in a district completely under water, all the rush we have got 
 from above will not wash them away, that will be sufficient in a dis- 
 trict which lies sloping gradually down to the Thames, but here we 
 cannot do it. 
 
 Are they periodically cleaned out? Yes. 
 
 Can you state at what periods ? There is a rota. 
 
 How often do you suppose it comes to the turn of an open sewer to 
 be cleaned out? I should think perhaps once in nine months. 
 
 Is the deposit of filth left upon the side of the ditches, or is it carted 
 away? It is left upon the side of the ditches, except where public 
 roads come, there it is carted away ; however, it is very little that is 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 233 
 
 left upon the side in fact. The sewers are now so hemmed in by 
 building, that there is not a possibility of leaving it on the spot, it is 
 only where we can find open ground that that is done. 
 
 You are understood to say, that the deposit of filth taken from the 
 sewers, is carted away from those places where there are buildings. 
 Great complaints are, however, received, of the nuisance occasioned to 
 the inhabitants by this practice. Is it not a fact that this filth is left on 
 the banks of the sewers, upon which houses densely populated abut? 
 I am not aware of the filth or casting from the sewers being ever left 
 on the banks of sewers, upon which houses densely populated abut. 
 It would be impossible for me to say, such a thing has not occurred ; if 
 it have, it has been some accidental exception to a general rule. 
 
 From the construction of your sewers, has that been altered? No. 
 
 Take the case of a court or alley or small street, say for twenty 
 houses each side, what sized sewer would you carry up it? For twenty 
 houses, I should say eighteen inches will drain them. 
 
 What sized house-drains would you put to each house ? Nine inches 
 is quite sufficient. 
 
 You never put any less than that? It is difficult to know, we find 
 upon inquiry, that the drains which are manufactured do not come 
 cheaper. 
 
 Do not they discharge more quickly? It depends upon the head of 
 water in them and the level at which they are laid. 
 
 With the same head of water? Yes, with the same head of water 
 they discharge more quickly if they are glazed. I do not think they 
 discharge more quickly upon brick. 
 
 Have you tried them? Yes, not in this district, but in other places 
 I have tried them to a large extent. 
 
 What have you found the result to be where you have tried them ? 
 I cannot say it is so much in favor of them that I should adopt them 
 unless there were a great difference in point of expense. 
 
 The difference between the rate of discharge of the water is incon- 
 siderable ? I am satisfied it is. 
 
 Have you guaged the run of water in your mains or ordinary sewers, 
 so as to state what is the proportionate run of water in periods when 
 you have no rain ? No, that would only affect one part of my district, 
 inasmuch as the great portion of the sewers being nearly full at the 
 time they begin to discharge, the run will always be the same. 
 
 What is the capacity for holding back-water of the whole of your 
 
234 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sewers in the lowland district? In the main sewers about 27,000 tons , 
 or 972,000 cubic feet. 
 
 What is the ordinary height in the sewers at the time of letting off 
 in dry weather? I should say about three-fifths. 
 
 Mr. Hawkins, formerly assistant-surveyor in the Westminster Com- 
 mission, having measured the quantities, states that the common run of 
 water, for twenty-four hours, in the whole of your district is 256 cubic 
 feet per acre ; do you consider his calculation to be corrrect? I do not 
 considerably differ from Mr. Hawkins in his computation; his calcula- 
 tion, however, I consider under the mark. I should incline to put it 
 at more than 300 cube feet per acre. 
 
 Is that so with the collateral sewers as well as the main sewers? 
 Yes. 
 
 Your district is so situated, in respect to its being below high water, 
 that it is impossible for you to get a quicker fall or discharge than you 
 now have? I do not see how it is to be done, it has engaged many 
 days, and, I may say, years of my life to consider it. 
 
 Why cannot you get rid of the waters more quickly? From want 
 of fall. 
 
 Do your sewers run in a direct line from their source to the river, or 
 are they very sinuous? They are in direct lines as nearly as the pub- 
 lic ways, through which they run, will permit. I should not call the 
 worst of them very sinuous. 
 
 After diverting all the upland waters into separate outlets, if you had 
 area sufficient to hold the back-water that would accumulate in the 
 lowland district, and direct outlets in sufficient number, would not the 
 effect be the better cleansing of the sewers ? lam of opinion that 
 whatever outlets might be made for the upland waters, it would be de- 
 sirable to have a command over them for letting down a certain portion 
 on the low lands, by which they, (the latter,) would be better cleared 
 and scoured. 
 
 Describe the manner in which the waters are let off and the periods 
 of the tides at which this is done ? At each sluice is a flap, with ma- 
 chinery to raise it, (except at Heath wall, where there are folding gates.) 
 As soon as the tide has ebbed below the top of such flap the sluice- 
 keeper raises it, and leaves it till the return of the tide. These flaps 
 being hung opening to the river, are self-acting. Behind, that is, land- 
 ward from the flap, are placed pen-stocks, which are lowered in case of 
 accident to the flaps. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 235 
 
 Supposing you had area sufficient for the back-water that might 
 come from the properly defined low lands district, and your outlets 
 were sufficient in number, so that you could, during the absence of rain, 
 hold the back-water until the tide was somewhat ebbed, would not a 
 greater velocity be obtained for the discharge, and by flushing gates 
 fixed at proper intervals, to be shut before the ebb commenced and 
 then let off one after the other, would not that have the effect of clear- 
 ing the sewers from foul deposits'? I apprehend that there is at present 
 area sufficient, in all ordinary cases, for the back-water from the low 
 land, and that the outlets are sufficient ; yet, with the experiments that 
 have been made in flushing, which, where it can be applied, had been 
 done for a great number of years, I have found, that from the small- 
 ness of the height that can be obtained, the sewer cannot be clear suf- 
 ficiently so as to obviate the necessity of casting. 
 
 Is it not advisable that a proper survey should be made, and levels 
 taken, to enable a satisfactory examination to be made as to the real 
 portion of the districts that could be drained by /what may be termed 
 upland sewers; and what would remain to be provided for as to capac- 
 ity, number, and direction of low land sewers required ? I apprehend 
 surveys and levels to very nearly the extent implied in this question 
 are already in existence. The districts that could be, or indeed are, 
 drained by upland sewers, are known ; their drainage has been formed 
 naturally made sewers, which, as the population increases, only want by 
 the assistance of art. 
 
 You have great quantities of water coming from the upland, have 
 not you 1 Only one sewer, that is the sewer which falls by the Brixton 
 Washway, and discharges itself by Vauxhall Bridge, which is under 
 different circumstances from the rest of the district. 
 
 If you had your choice, with respect to the size of tubular drains, 
 setting aside the difficulty of working a small brick drain, you would 
 not make of much less size than nine inches'? No, I should not; they 
 are much less likely to get obstructed, and, upon that account, I should 
 certainly prefer a drain not less than nine inches. I do not mean to 
 say that less than nine inches would not do, because the run of a 9-inch 
 tube will carry off an immense quantity of water, but it is for the con- 
 venience of keeping it open. 
 
 The Commissioners have had evidence that the smaller the size of the 
 drain, within certain limits, the better the run, and the less the deposit? 
 I am prepared to contend that that is not the fact. 
 
236 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Take the case of a 9-inch drain, to what is that the outlet? is not it 
 an outlet to the pipe from the water-sink, or in case of a water-closet, 
 it may be the outlet of a pipe 9 inches in diameter ? The waste-pipe 
 of a water-closet, in the first place, is 4 inches in diameter, and thai is 
 not the only outlet that goes from the house, you have the waste water 
 of the cisterns, the waste water of the sinks, and the waste water which 
 washes down the yards, perhaps. 
 
 Are they all running- at one time? They may be, and there may be 
 a shower of rain falling upon the house. 
 
 Even if it were so, take the case of a fall of rain upon a fourth-rate 
 house, supposing it to be a fall of one or two inches in the hour, what 
 sized pipe would be necessary to carry off that? I should not think of 
 putting less than a 3-inch water-pipe to that alone. 
 
 What addition would a water-closet make to it ? There would be a 
 pipe of 4 inches diameter. 
 
 Then the other pipe is the pipe from the sink ; do not you lead that 
 off with 2-inch pipes ? It is possible that all this may be so, but I 
 think in all cases where a house is to be freed from its water, there 
 should be somewhat more than enough means of carrying it off. 
 
 Supposing a pipe of 3 inches to be more than enough for carrying off 
 the storm water, would not a 4-inch pipe do for ordinary and everyday 
 purposes? My opinion is that it would not. I should not like to put 
 it in to houses I was superintending. 
 
 Are you district surveyor ? No. 
 
 It appears that there were in the metropolis, in the year 1841, 
 270,000 houses. Now, if each were to have at the least a 9-inch drain, 
 as you and architects in general recommend, it appears that the area of 
 the stream or river required to keep them full and flowing would be 
 a stream 1132 feet in width by 105 feet in depth ? Yes. 
 
 It is estimated that a supply of water for the whole of the metropolis, 
 supposing each house to have a supply of 125 gallons per diem, or 25 
 gallons per head, would be given by a circular tunnel or aqueduct 12J 
 feet diameter. There are, in the Kent and Surrey district, 55,000 
 houses, and the supply there would be given by an aqueduct of propor- 
 tionate size to your number of houses, that is, one-fourth. Such being 
 estimated to be the size of conduits required to bring in water, the sec- 
 tional areas of the drains and sewers, it is presumed, would not be 
 required of vastly greater size, supposing them to have as good a fall, 
 to carry away that same water. Can you prove any addition of rain 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 237 
 
 water, or even of extraordinary storm water, requiring a system of 
 drainage, of a sectional area more than five times that of the Thames 
 at Waterloo Bridge at high-water, or nearly a thousand times the area 
 of the aqueduct that would furnish the whole supply of water to the 
 metropolis? I apprehend in providing drains for a house you are to 
 provide against accidents. Therefore I should say it would be prudent 
 always to have drains larger than are actually necessary to guard 
 against stoppages. A stoppage in a small drain stops up the whole 
 orifice ; a stoppage in a large one is partial. There may be most likely 
 a means of its running off in some way or other. 
 
 Do you dispute the fact that a 4-inch drain from a house keeps 
 clearer than a 9-inch, and is clearer still than a 12-inch 1 I certainly 
 do dispute it. 
 
 The thing which you deprecate is the stoppage of a drain? Yes. 
 
 What causes the stoppage of a drain ? There are a vast number of 
 causes. The cook will take up the washer of the sink and let down 
 hard substances, which will occasion a stoppage. 
 
 It has been stated that the smaller the pipe is generally, the less 
 likely will deposit be to accumulate, the greater will be the force of 
 water concentrated upon the resisting medium, and the less likely is 
 the resistance of that medium to be effectual. What is your opinion 
 upon that subject ? My opinion is this, I will take the case of a washer 
 to a sink being open and the cook throwing down anything that comes 
 to hand. It comes against a 4-inch pipe, and blocks it completely up, 
 but the end of a cabbage-stalk will pass into a 9-inch drain and there 
 it will lie and decompose. 
 
 That supposes that it originally passes down a 2-inch pipe from the 
 sink ; it must cause a stoppage in the 2-inch pipe first? Many things 
 will pass down to the end of a pipe, and all meet at the mouth of it. 
 
 Still they do not get into the larger drain ? There are other matters 
 that would come into the larger drain. 
 
 Do not you know that sometimes servants, or persons living in attics, 
 will throw out substances of all kinds into the gutters. Would not 
 that equally be a reason for making the water-spouts of 9 inches, a 
 diameter as large as chimneys, to carry off accidental substances so 
 thrown in? Perhaps it would be better, in many cases; but we can- 
 not remedy that. 
 
 In your Encyclopaedia you say, " The architect neglects his duty if 
 he has not provided for perfect drainage in the lowest parts of the 
 
238 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 structure. This must not be by the aid of a small stagnant tank 
 called a cesspool, often the cause of much disease in a family ; but by 
 means of a drain into some running stream at a distance from the 
 building, or, if that be not practicable, into some far-removed pond, 
 whose exhalations shall not be blown by the prevalent winds of the 
 spot back upon the place where they were generated in a different 
 form. Neither does the health alone of the family, whose comfort is 
 to be provided for, demand this consideration of drainage, for the du- 
 rability of the structure is quite as much involved in good drainage as is 
 the health of the family whose dwelling-place the house is to become. 
 Hence we are the more earnest in pressing the point." Is not this ex- 
 cellent advice applicable, a fortiori, to the whole circumstances of 
 sewerage in your district, the necessity of isolating houses from cess- 
 pools in every possible way? There cannot be a second opinion upon 
 that ; I apprehend it is most desirable. 
 
 You are still of opinion that it is impossible, within your district, to 
 do more for the prevention of nuisance arising from the decomposing 
 of the refuse in the sewers'? I have hardly said that. 
 
 To accelerate the run of water ? You cannot do that ; the fall will 
 not permit it. 
 
 Have you ever considered the addition of pipe-water to regulate the 
 run, so that it maybe less intermittent in particular places? Our 
 sewers are full up to the crown every tide in rainy weather. 
 
 Are all of them full, branches as well as mains ? I think I might 
 say branches as well as mains ; and there it is hanging till the tide 
 ebbs to let it out. 
 
 You say, u Our sewers are full up to the crown every tide," if this 
 be so, pray what becomes of ordinary rain-water and heavy storms 1 
 When the sewers are brimfull, the water backs up and finds vent at 
 the gullies into the roads. 
 
 And you do not think it practicable to quicken the scour in any way, 
 either by altering the size or modifying the shape of the drains? I do 
 not think it is. I apprehended I might be called before this Commis- 
 sion, and recently I have put some figures upon paper with regard to 
 the shape of sewers. 
 
 Further on in your book you say, " When we recollect that a small 
 river draining a very considerable tract of country, is often in its sec- 
 tion only eight, nine, or ten feet superficial, it will easily be conceived 
 that the surplus from the rain-water falling on a mansion is a quantity, 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 339 
 
 even at the most pressing times, requiring little area of discharge to 
 free the place from damp. There are few cases in which the largest 
 mansion would require for its main branch drainage an area of more 
 than 5 feet, which would be given by a sewer or drain 2 feet by 2 feet 
 6 inches, supposing its section to be that of a parallelogram ; but of 
 course, where the fall permits, there is no objection to larger dimensions." 
 Is there any large-sized mansion which would require such a drainage 
 as that to discharge upwards of 2000 cubic feet of water per minute, for 
 that size would drain nearly 200 acres of the most densely populated-dis- 
 trict, with 100 gallons of water supply to each house per day, and a fall 
 of rain of an inch and a half in 12 hours ? The size there is not given 
 for the sake of merely carrying off the water, but that it may be cleaned 
 out at times without breaking the whole sewer to pieces. 
 
 You think, even in that case of a private mansion, the application of 
 the system of making sewers so large that a man may get in and 
 cleanse them is desirable and necessary ? That there may be the 
 means of cleansing them that there may be holes at certain distances 
 apart that may be dug down to, and that the silt and soil of the sewer 
 may be got rid of by that means. 
 
 You say, further on, " It will hardly be necessary to recommend 
 that drains should, as well for their durability as on other accounts, be 
 constructed with curved bottoms. It is surprising that some (at least 
 one) Commissions of Sewers about the metropolis should still persist in 
 constructing their principal drains with flat bottoms, offering an addi- 
 tional impediment by the increased friction to the more rapid discharge 
 of the water. Thus, for instance, let us take the lower part of two 
 drains whose running depth of water is 1 foot, one whereof is formed 
 with a semicircular bottom 2 feet wide. The area of the column of 
 water will therefore be 1*5708, and the length of the half-curve will be 
 3*1416. To obtain, with 1 foot depth of water, the same area in a 
 drain whose bottom is flat and sides upright, we must have the width 
 1*5708, and the sum of the three sides touched by the water will be 
 3*5708. Then 3*5708 3*1416= -4292 represents roughly the dif- 
 ference of friction or impediment in favor of the semicircular bottom in 
 the case stated, nearly T W of the power being lost by the use of a flat 
 bottom." Will not that principle apply the more you curve it? You 
 cannot have a greater curve than a circle. 
 
 You reply that " you cannot have a greater curve than a circle," 
 but you can surely have a shtn^jcer curved bottom to a sewer than a 
 
240 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 
 
 semicircle, and does not, your excellent reasoning- with respect to the 
 superiority of the curved bottom over the flat bottom equally apply to 
 the superiority of the sharp curve or egg-shape over the semicircle, 
 where there is only a small run of water in a large sewer ? and is not 
 this the condition, for the most part, of all the sewers except the few 
 main lines ? The point to be obtained is to gain the largest capacity 
 with the least surface of friction; it is much on that account that I 
 object to the sharp curve. 
 
 In another part of your work you state that you prefer the semicir- 
 cular form to the egg-shape ? Yes. 
 
 In one of your reports you say, " Independently of the objection to 
 the egg-shape, of its want of a broad bearing, it was found to be so 
 extremely inconvenient for the casters to work in, from the sharpness of 
 the curve whereon in working- they have to stand, that I was not at 
 all displeased with the works of Waterloo Bridge, many years after- 
 wards rendered it necessary to change the line of sewage to meet the 
 altered direction of the streets, so that, fortunately for my reputation, 
 it (meaning an egg-shaped sewer) no longer exists ; and, if I am left 
 to exercise my discretion, the ovi-form sewer will never again be used 
 by me. I should incline more to a good opinion of Mr. Roe's egg- 
 forms, for I am quite content that he have the credit (if he so consider 
 it) due to their introduction, if he would conesnt to turn his figure up- 
 side down. There are however, other most important and scientific 
 objections whereto they are liable, upon which, in this general state- 
 ment, it is unnecessary to enter." By that opinion"! presume you 
 abide ? I abide by it ; and I would further illustrate it by the paper I 
 hold in my hand, which I will afterwards put in. But I will state 
 the result of it. Taking a sewer, it does not signify what size, say a 
 sewer of 4 feet by 2 feet 9 inches, having a circular-headed top and 
 bottom, and upright sides, 1 foot 3 inches in height, it contains an area 
 of 9-3771 ; it will hold 1381 tons of water in a mile. The friction on 
 its bottom will be as 6*82. Supposing a sewer of the same height and 
 width, formed 4 by 2 feet 9 nine inches, as before its area will be only 
 S'8194, and it will hold only 1254 tons of water in a mile. The fric- 
 tion on the bottom and sides will be 6'99. I should state that thisovi- 
 formed sewer I have named, is one formed by a regular curve, and not 
 by the expedient I have seen adopted of having many radii of curva- 
 ture, so as to form what a scientific man calls a bungling ellipse ; but 
 an ellipse by a continued motion. This ovi-formed sewer is constructed 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 241 
 
 and completed upon the supposition that it is a true mathematical 
 form. The consequence, therefore, is, that the respective frictions of 
 the first and the last are as 6*82 to 6*99, besides the difference of the 
 capacity of water. 
 
 Taking an upright sided sewer, five feet in height and three feet in 
 width, having a circular-headed top and bottom, upright sides, two 
 feet in height, containing an area of 13*07 feet; and taking an egg- 
 shaped sewer of the same height, and containing a similar area, and 
 which egg-shaped form enables the same area to be obtained at a less 
 cost than the upright-sided sewers formerly cost for the same area, 
 would not the difference in friction, when the sewer was full, be in 
 favor of the egg-shape? It is assumed by the question, that an egg- 
 shaped sewer, whose area, 13*07 feet, will cost less than one of simi- 
 lar area, with circular-headed top and bottom ; but if the sewers are of 
 the same thickness and materials, I do not admit the assumption : put- 
 ting that, however, out of consideration, I am of opinion that the difference 
 in friction and capacity will be against the egg-shaped sewer. It would 
 have been desirable, in order to obtain a precise answer to this question, 
 which does not depend on opinion, to have given the dimensions and 
 radii of curvature of an egg-shaped sewer, by which the exact area of 
 13*07 is produced. They involve a long and troublesome, not to say 
 difficult analytical calculation; and if the lower part be not in the 
 form of a true ellipse, would admit of an infinite number of solutions. 
 
 Mr. Hawksley states that the velocity in an egg-shaped oval sewer 
 is to the velocity in a circular sewer as 20 to 19 ; and the cleansing 
 effect as 10 to 9. Mr. Butler Williams states (page 464) that the egg- 
 shape presents this important advantage for the conveyance of water, 
 exclusive of its superior strength and economy over the upright-sided 
 sewer: that when the water is small in amount, the narrowness of the 
 lower part gives a greater hydraulic depth, and therefore produces in- 
 creased velocity : do you agree with these gentlemen in their calcula- 
 tions'? I am not aware from what work the dicta of Mr. Hawksley 
 and Mr. Butler Williams are quoted in respect of egg-shaped sewers ; 
 and being unacquainted with either the formula or process of investiga- 
 tion by which the former has arrived at the results in the question, I 
 am unable to investigate their mathematical truth ; until I see such 
 sort of proof I must doubt the accuracy. But in respect of the state- 
 ment of Mr. Butler Williams, I beg to observe, that I may, I trust, 
 (from much study of the equilibrium and stability of arches, and as the 
 
242 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 author of a work on that subject which has passed through three 
 editions, and therefore I presume of some value in the public estima- 
 tion,) be allowed to assert there is inferior strength and absence of 
 economy in the egg-shaped sewer, and that the upright-sided is far 
 preferable under the former head, and superior as to the latter. If to 
 gain hydraulic depth by narrowness be an object, it follows that sewage 
 should be conducted by sections brought to the shape of narrow slits, 
 so to speak. It is, moreover, known that the velocity of running 
 water in a channel is less at the bottom than at the surface. I respect- 
 fully differ, therefore, from these gentlemen in their assertions. 
 
 Have you had any experience, or would you state it as a result of 
 which you have no doubt, that an egg-shaped sewer, with the broad 
 end downwards, will, with the same run of water, discharge more 
 quickly, and keep itself clean better than an egg-shaped sewer with the 
 narrow end downwards'? I should say it would clear itself better, be- 
 cause there would be less friction upon a circle than there would be on 
 the parts of an ellipse. 
 
 Do not you think that is a fact which may be determined by actual 
 experiment? No doubt it may. 
 
 And ought not it to be? I can see no objection to it whatever. 
 
 Your firm persuasion is that the broad end downwards will, with or- 
 dinary runs of water, keep the sewer clearer? I will discard altogether 
 that supposition. If you have the broad end downwards I do not see 
 the use of curving it, its effect is only to make difficulty in the work. 
 In the case I have referred to, independent of the inclination of the 
 bottom, the velocity would be as the height of the fluids in each, sup- 
 posing a greater amount of friction is not to be overcome, this may be 
 taken, therefore, nearly as the cubes, or in a foot forwards, nearly as 
 260 is to 199, supposing each full to the springing. The capacity of the 
 two inverts taken from the springing line of the semicircular one is as 
 2*97: 1*88, hence in favour of former. 
 
 As to the construction of sewers, is your construction adopted by your 
 colleagues in their lines? We adopt the same. 
 
 Does not one of them adopt the circular form ? That has been in 
 particular cases ; for instance, in the case of a large sewer running 
 down to Rotherhithe, but the circular form is not the usual one adopted ; 
 that was to meet a particular configuration of the land. 
 
 In courts, what would be the smallest size of your sewer ? I should 
 say, a foot. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 243 
 
 What would it be in a small street of 50 or 100 houses'? I should 
 say, 2 feet by 18 inches. 
 
 Your drains you will always keep at the size which you have men- 
 tioned 1 Yes, I think so. 
 
 Do you use your first class sewers in any collateral streets? In some 
 cases they have been, but very rarely ; where the street has been a 
 large and important street, the sewer is to be a reservoir; that is the 
 reason of it. ; it has to receive the accumulation of the water during a 
 whole tide, otherwise the sewers are larger than would be called for. 
 
 In the case of a person in a court or alley wishing to drain a single 
 house, he has to apply to you ? Yes. 
 
 Then has not he to apply to the Paving Board ? No, we have power 
 to pull up any pavements. 
 
 In a road or street ? Yes. 
 
 Then the cost of replacement is included in the charge ? Yes. 
 
 How much would that be ? No two drains perhaps would come out 
 alike, from the difference in the depth of them. The digging in one 
 case will be half as much again as it is in another. 
 
 You have a fee in each case, have not you 1 Yes, that is for the go- 
 ing to see the place, to see whether the work can be done, and after- 
 wards to see whether it has been done properly ; that fee is 10s. 6d. 
 which I am exceedingly glad to say is about being abolished. 
 
 With respect to the mode of payment in your works generally, are 
 you paid by salary 1 I am. 
 
 What may your salary be ? 50/. 
 
 Mr. Drew, before the surveying officers, has given this evidence. 
 He is asked, " Who are the surveyors, and how many are there ? There 
 are three. What are their names ? Mr. Joseph Gwilt, Mr. Edward 
 PAnson, and Mr. Joseph Newman." Mr. Elkington. " Are not 
 these gentlemen paid by the Commissioners on the works executed ? 
 Yes. A certain per centage ? Yes. The more the work comes to the 
 better they would be paid? Yes, the more work that is done, the bet- 
 ter they are paid." The following questions are put to yourself, 
 " Have you any other emolument besides the salary and the fees on 
 these openings'? Oh, yes, I have a commission upon the works. A 
 commission on the estimate that you make, or upon the amount of 
 works executed ? The amount at which the work is done. And that 
 commission is upon the new works in the district ? Upon the new 
 works of the district. I have no commission on the general expendi- 
 16 
 
244 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ture of the district, the cleansing of the sewer, the superintendence of 
 cleansing of all sewers, and every matter of that kind is included in 
 the 50/. a-year. The commission is only on the new works executed 1 
 Yes ; in short, if it was not for that, I could not undertake to do the 
 work. It would be impossible, I should be a loser by it. Mr. Walker. 
 You say 'cleansing,' supposing a large repairing job, you are allowed 
 a commission on that? No, nor have I received such a thing; per- 
 haps I may be allowed to state, that for that commission there is first 
 the planning the place ; there is levelling the place ; the spot at which 
 the work is to be done, it must be levelled up from the main sewer (o 
 which it is to be carried ; there is the estimating the work ; and there 
 is then the insertion of the plans in the contracts that the clerk pre- 
 pares ; together with a specification of the works ; and after that there 
 is the superintendence of them, to see that they are properly performed ; 
 and the certifying that they are properly performed to the Commis- 
 sioners." Do not you think it would be better, upon the whole, if, 
 instead of a small salary, you were paid a large one without such per 
 centages? I should naturally say so, of course. 
 
 As it at present stands, may not it be open to the observation, that 
 this payment by per centage upon the works is liable to objection as a 
 bribe on expensive works, or a bias in the judgment against improve- 
 ments in economical construction 1 It is a very frequent objection to 
 all charges in my profession. 
 
 Your charge here appears to be a charge for levelling? Not sepa- 
 rately ; that is included. 
 
 You say for that commission there is first planning the place, and 
 there is levelling? That is included. 
 
 Do not you think if you had a large, general, and comprehensive 
 survey of the whole district, it would be an advantage ? Yes. 
 
 Such a survey as the town survey contemplated by the Ordnance of 
 60 inches to a mile ? Certainly, such a thing should exist. 
 
 Would not it save a great deal of separate levelling, and be available 
 for other works in the district? I scarcely know whether it would, but 
 whether it would or not, such a thing ought to exist, I think, for this 
 reason : of all the streets that are in existence I have levels at this mo- 
 ment, and it is only where new projects of building are about to be 
 carried out such becomes necessary, so that the chances would be that 
 you might, even with such a complete survey as that, have a point to 
 which you might want to go, from new schemes of building coming 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 245 
 
 there, and yet you might be without a level of it upon your map. 
 There cannot be a doubt about such a thing being most desirable. 
 
 That you should have had to refer to not only for your own district, 
 but with reference to the districts surrounding you 1 It would be a 
 very desirable thing. 
 
 Do not you think it would be a great benefit to all dwelling-houses if 
 those cesspools were removed, even though they were subject to a 
 smell arising from communication with the sewers'? I should by every 
 means try to get rid of cesspools ; I have a great horror of them. 
 
 Supposing you had occasionally some smell from communication 
 with the sewers, the benefit of removing cesspools from all dwellings 
 would be a greater benefit than that would be an inconvenience ? Yes. 
 
 You have some quicksand in your district? We have. 
 
 Have you found any difference in laying down tubular drains upon 
 those quicksands as compared with brick drains? I consider that tubu- 
 lar drains are more easily laid down. 
 
 And will stand and last better ? They will stand and last quite as 
 well ; they are of perfect stability. 
 
 No. 21. 
 MR. EDWARD I' 
 
 You are one of the surveyors to the Kent and Surrey division of 
 sewers'? I am permitted to act as my father's deputy. 
 
 How long have you acted as your father's deputy? About five years. 
 
 In point of fact, you are practically the acting surveyor of that divi- 
 sion ? I am. 
 
 How many surveyors are there under that Commission? There are 
 three surveyors. 
 
 Have they each separate defined districts ? They have. 
 
 What is the district which you superintend ? The district that I 
 superintend is called by the Commissioners the Central or Southwark 
 District ; it includes several parishes. 
 
 Will you name them? St. Saviour's, St. Thomas's, St. Olave's, the 
 greater part of St. George's, St. John's, St. Mary, Newington, and 
 Christchurch. 
 
 Does it include any part of Rotherhithe ? It does not. 
 
 Your attention is confined entirely to the district which you have 
 
246 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 just mentioned? It is, with the exception of cases which occasionally 
 come before the Commissioners when they desire the three surveyors 
 to inspect and report; but that is not a common occurrence. 
 
 Were you examined before the Health of Towns Commission? I 
 was riot. 
 
 When any new sewer is to be made in the district over which you 
 preside, what do you refer to in order to ascertain the levels and deter- 
 mine the size of the drain which you are to construct? If it is an 
 entirely new sewer, constructed to drain a certain level, the practice is 
 to take the level of the whole country intended to be drained, by means 
 of a spirit level, and then to judge by the area of the country, the num- 
 ber of houses upon it, and the probability of an increase in the number 
 of houses, the size and capacity of the sewer which it is necessary to 
 build. 
 
 You must have reference, also, to the existing- drainage? Precisely. 
 
 What plans have you of the existing sewerage which you can refer 
 to in order to guide you in the additional drainage you are about to 
 construct? Each surveyor has at his office plans of his own district, 
 showing the ancient sewers and the new sewers as they are formed. 
 
 Have you any plan made to any particular scale of the whole district, 
 or any levels made to any peculiar datum ? None. The Commis- 
 sioners are aware that almost the wbole of the district on the south side 
 of the river is below high-water mark, varying from a little above high- 
 water mark to as much as ten feet below Trinity high-water mark. 
 But no level in my district is much lower than five, or perhaps six feet 
 below Trinity high-water mark. The increase of population on the 
 south side of the river has taken place mainly since Blackfriars Bridge 
 was built. Of late years the increase of houses and population has 
 been very rapid. Formerly a large portion of the south side of London 
 was occupied by monastic establishments ; a large portion of that which 
 I have the honor to be surveyor for, to the Bishop of Winchester, called 
 the Park Estate, was in the centre, nearly, of our present district. It 
 was a park, and the surface, which was very marshy, being considerably 
 below high-water mark, was drained by a great number of surface 
 drains. Those surface drains were made use of, for the purpose of 
 getting heads of water and turning tide-mills, and several of our sewers 
 are still called mill-streams. For instance, we have Pudding mill- 
 stream, Battle Bridge mill-stream, and the Green Bank mill-stream. 
 
 That is to say, as this ground became built over, its original mill- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 247 
 
 streams became of use for sewers'? Yes. The Commissioners, I be- 
 lieve, before the present century, had no legislative powers enabling 
 them to interfere materially with that aspect and feature of the coun- 
 try. But about the year 1809, they obtained powers enabling them to 
 construct deep sewers. The construction of deep sewers dates with the 
 Commission for which I am surveyor, from about the period of 1809. 
 In the year, I think, 1809, in consequence of an application made by 
 the city of London, who, I believe, are large holders of ground about 
 St. George's Fields, the Commissioners were invited to carry out a deep 
 drainage for the purpose of draining that inland district; and after a 
 great deal of consideration and discussion, both with Mr. Montagu, 
 who then represented the city, and with the owners of property on the 
 bank, and other persons interested, it was determined, for the purpose 
 of getting the most efficient fall, to take the sewer out below London 
 bridge, for at that time there was a considerable difference between the 
 level of the water above and below the bridge. Accordingly, a piece 
 of ground was bought at the end of Mill lane, in Tooley street, and 
 an outlet was made there a little above the level of low-water mark. 
 I think the invert of the sewer is 15 or 16 feet below Trinity high- 
 water mark. That sewer was carried with a gradual fall to that point 
 almost from where Bethlehem hospital now stands. That was the first 
 important work which was done in the central district. 
 
 What is the level of the sewer at its head ? About 10 feet below the 
 surface of -the road at Bethlehem Hospital. But I am speaking from 
 memory. That sewer which we call Battle Bridge Sewer, together 
 with the existing ancient sewers, taking the surface drainage, is the 
 means of sewerage for the parish of St. George, and all in my district 
 lying westward and northward of St. George's parish. 
 
 Do you know whether, when the Commissioners undertook that work 
 in 1809, they had any general survey taken of the whole of the 
 ground, and any map made out? I am speaking only what I have 
 heard ; but I believe they had a report from Messrs. Jessop & Walker, 
 which must have been, I think, previous to 1809, in which some gene- 
 ral scheme was recommended. 
 
 You are not aware of any map on any particular scale which was made 
 at that time ? I am not. 
 
 There is no map of that date to which you are now in the habit of 
 referring'? No. 
 
 Nor any general map of the district to which you could at once refer 
 
248 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 in order to ascertain the levels? No. At that time we had sections 
 taken in all directions across the face of this country, to which we oc- 
 casionally refer, but there is no map. 
 
 What sections do you refer to ? Sections of levels. The datum by 
 which we generally work is the base of the obelisk ; that is four feet 
 above Trinity high-water mark, and all our levels have reference to 
 that datum. 
 
 Are the sections which you mentioned laid down upon any large 
 map? No, not upon any map. 
 
 They are not in contour lines or with bench marks? No, we have 
 no map with contour lines nor any general map showing the levels of 
 corners of streets. 
 
 Therefore, in any new work you undertake, you are obliged to level 
 for the purpose of ascertaining what your work should be ? We always 
 take the levels before we proceed with any new work, but our existing 
 records of all works executed show the level of the ground above the 
 line of the sewer. Whenever we execute a work, whatever it may 
 be, we take the level first, and that level we keep a record of, and to 
 that we can always refer, and learn what the comparative level is be- 
 tween the surface of the ground and the invert of the sewer. 
 
 That is along the street under which it runs? As I stated before, 
 we always have reference not only to the street along which it runs, 
 but to adjacent districts which may be served by means of the sewer 
 about to be constructed. 
 
 Would not it be a great advantage to you as a surveyor if you had 
 an Ordnance Survey, or a survey such as the Ordnance Survey made 
 of the whole district? I think it would. 
 
 Would not it save a great deal of trouble and anxiety ? It would 
 lead us to general conclusions, certainly, but even if we had such a 
 map, I should never be satisfied to adopt the levels or measurements of 
 any man whatever. If I were about to execute a sewer, I should not 
 be satisfied without taking the levels myself. 
 
 Should not you be satisfied if the levels were drawn up with refer- 
 ence to some particular datum line, with bench marks and contour 
 lines? I do not think I should. If I were about to execute a work, 
 I should like myself to check the dimensions or the levels. I speak 
 not only as surveyor to the Commissioners of Sewers, but in reference 
 to plan-taking in general. One always likes to check a plan before 
 working upon it in any extensive or accurate work. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 249 
 
 The moment you found your calculations concur with the calcula- 
 tions laid down upon the general map, it would satisfy you at once, 
 and be a much shorter process than having to depend upon the strict 
 accuracy of your own levels'? Of course. 
 
 Since 18^4, when the Health of Towns Commission sat, what new 
 works have you undertaken in your district? We have executed a line 
 of sewer through the parish of St. Mary, Newington, along the line of 
 East lane, from the Walworth road to the Kent road. We have also 
 executed a line of sewer from the bridge, called St. Thomas a Watering 
 Bridge, in the Old Kent road, up to the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, and 
 then from St. George's Church to the boundary of Bermondsey parish, 
 in White street. Those are the three principal works which have 
 been executed since that time. 
 
 And those are now in action 1 Yes. 
 
 What new sewers have you at present proposed or planned out 1 
 We are arching over several high level open sewers, which are now 
 very offensive. 
 
 Will you state what those are ? The Skin -market, Bank side, Tattle 
 court, Bermondsey street, Collingwood street, Christchnrch, Surrey row, 
 Christchurch, Sparrick's row, St. Olaves's, and Red Cross court, St. 
 George's. 
 
 In the plan and scale of these works you have made no alteration, 
 but you have proceeded upon the same plan, and in the same method, 
 which you had originally? Precisely. 
 
 You say your sewers which have been in progress since 1844, are 
 now in action 1 All that have been made. 
 
 What is your practice with relation to your sewers; do you cleanse 
 them out by hand labor and cartage ? In the deep sewers we have 
 very rarely occasion to resort to cartage. Our plan is to flush the sew- 
 ers by temporary dams fixed in the sewers till a head of water is ob- 
 tained, and we place in the sewer three or four men, who, with spader, 
 lift up the bottom, and loosen it as much as possible, and then let the 
 head of water loose, and so propel the looser material along the bot- 
 tom of the sewer; and with a view to obtaining a head of water, we 
 arrange, as much as possible, in building the low level sewers, to have 
 communications with the high level sewers, and by taking the tide in 
 on these, we get occasionally a large supply of water. 
 
 Do you use flushing-gates'? I have put up two or three flushing- 
 gates by way of experiment, but we do not universally adopt them. 
 
250 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What is the practice as to the collateral sewers ? We make no dif- 
 ference between collateral and main sewers. Our district being- en- 
 tirely below high-water mark, it becomes very important with us that 
 we should acquire area, therefore we take every opportunity of making 
 large sewers on the low levels. In the ancient high level where we 
 arch over and discharge at half tide, or a third of the tide, we have 
 much smaller sewers. 
 
 Do you happen to know the length of the public streets in your dis- 
 trict ? No, I have no idea of it. 
 
 Do you happen to know the length of the sewers you have in your 
 district'? I do not know it accurately. I should say the deep sewers 
 would be about six miles at least; the open sewers are, perhaps, dou- 
 ble that length. 
 
 Have you any power to compel parties to communicate with your 
 sewers 1 Within the last six months we have had. 
 
 Have you carried it into execution ? W T e have not ; we have scarcely 
 organized our operations under the new Act yet. 
 
 Have you any idea what number of houses in the district have com- 
 munications into the sewers now ? I do not know ; but directly, or in- 
 directly, they almost all have some communication either with a high 
 or low level sewer. 
 
 Are you speaking from your own knowledge, in saying that? Yes, 
 either to a high level or into the deep sewers they have a communi- 
 cation, that is, that they have an overflow drain from the cesspools. 
 
 Into what does that drain ? Ultimately, of course, into the next ad- 
 jacent sewer ; it may have to pass through the backs of houses along 
 a public street before it reaches a sewer. 
 
 Do not you think there are many houses in your district which have 
 only cesspools and no communications with the sewers? There are ct 
 great many. 
 
 Then there must be a great many houses which have no communi- 
 cations with the sewers? There are ; that is, with no direct commu- 
 nication. 
 
 Have you ever gauged either the mains or the collateral sewers ? I 
 have tried it often, but have not arrived at any satisfactory result. 
 
 How long ago have you gauged them ? I have been occasionally 
 gauging the sewers the last five or six years. 
 
 Do the Commissioners understand that the mode of cleansing the 
 sewers you describe is the mode you continue in use even with respect 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 251 
 
 to the new sewers 1 Yes, we have used it from time immemorial, and 
 are satisfied with it. In some of the new sewers I am putting up some 
 flushing-gates by way of experiment. 
 
 How long have you been accustomed to use a flushing apparatus ? 
 A flushing apparatus in the way we use it has been used as long as 
 sewers have existed. 
 
 It has been stated, that there is a great deal of surface water coming 
 down from the higher parts of the district, and that during the time 
 the sluices shut off the sewage- water from the Thames, a great deal of 
 water comes from this district, and passes down the sewers so as to fill 
 them with water. What is your experience as to that ? The sewers 
 are sometimes completely full, and more than full. 
 
 Is that generally so 1 On the 1st of August, 1846, the sewers were 
 very full, and one part of the district was a little flooded. 
 
 That was during the storm 1 Yes. 
 
 You do not find that every time the sluice-gates are shut such a 
 quantity of water flows in as to fill up the sewers'? The lower part of 
 our deep sewers is full every tide. 
 
 To what extent ; how far up from the mouth ? Several hundred 
 feet at least ; 700 or 800 feet I should say. 
 
 Is that sewage-water, or water which has drained off the higher 
 parts of the district 1 In my district it is entirely sewage-water ; I am 
 not affected by the hill water in my district. 
 
 You comprehend within your district St. George's, do not you ? Yes, 
 St. George's, for the greater part. 
 
 This is the description given of some of the drainage in your district : 
 ec What is the condition of the district in respect to house and street 
 drainage ? The houses are very badly drained ; they have mostly cess- 
 pools, very few draining into any sewers ; but the most depressing in- 
 fluence upon the health arises from the number of open sewers which 
 surround and intersect the district; these ditches and sewers are slug- 
 gish, and evolve noxious gases. Typhus fever is always prevalent in 
 the vicinity. What is the condition of the covered sewers? They 
 emit very offensive effluvia. In the house in which 1 live we have ex- 
 perience of it. When the wind is in particular directions we have a 
 severe experience of it. Do you consider it an advantage, in the pre- 
 sent state of the sewers, to open any communication with them? I 
 have been led to consider that point, and to doubt it very much ; more 
 particularly since the storm of August, 1846, when the water from the 
 
252 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sewers was conducted from the drains into the houses and burst through 
 them. A number of houses were flooded with sewer-water ; mine was 
 saturated without 4 feet deep; the walls have not yet got rid of the 
 stench. What was the condition of those houses which had no drains 
 to join on with the sewers'? They were certainly better off; they had 
 none of the sewer water.' 7 Do you think that a fair description ? As 
 far as my own experience goes, I think the accounts of typhus adjoin- 
 ing sewers are greatly over-stated ; that is my impression. That is not 
 certainly a fair description of the state of all the houses in St. George's 
 parish. I quite admit that the open sewers are exceedingly offensive. 
 
 Are not those open sewers in the rnidst of a dense population ? In 
 all cases ; at all events, in my district they are. 
 
 And the lowest description of people? Yes; the Commissioners 
 have only obtained the power to arch those sewers over, within the 
 last six months, and I have already a considerable quantity of that 
 work in hand. 
 
 What shape do you adopt in your sewers? Semicircular top and 
 bottom. I have a little deviated from upright walls, more really be- 
 cause it appears to be the fashion than for any other reason. 
 
 Have you any of the egg shape? I am now having a piece of it 
 built on trial, and my father's predecessor, Mr. Alexander, the archi- 
 tect to the London Dock, recommended the building of a piece of egg- 
 shape sewer in the Dover road ; but subsequent experience induced him 
 to abandon this form, and adopt that which we have now in use. 
 
 Dr. Doubleday, speaking of the average age of death in St. Saviour's 
 being so low, says, " I must attribute it chiefly to the open sewers and 
 the general bad drainage of the place. In the neighborhood of the 
 Mint and Ewer street, the condition of the population is certainly very 
 bad. There not only the drainage, but the cleansing and scavenging 
 is very bad, and nothing has been done to improve the defective con- 
 dition of the houses. The circumstances are such as to account for the 
 mortality." He has stated to the Commissioners, that in the low 
 district it is not unfrequent that on the rising of the tide, in excessively 
 high tides, the sewer-water is driven back into the houses? About four 
 years ago the Commissioners had the banks of the river raised ; they 
 issued a precept enforcing it upon the owners of property to raise the 
 banks of the river. Before that period, the water used to flow over the 
 banks from the river, and used to flow back upon the low part of St. 
 Saviour's and Christchurch, especially in one wretched locality, Ewer 
 street. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 253 
 
 You say you doubt whether typhus prevails to the extent it is said 
 to do in the proximity of those open sewers and ditches. Have you 
 any, and what assured ground, for your doubt? I am, of necessity, a 
 great deal engaged along the line of open sewers, and my only reason 
 for saying so is, that I have never heard complaints of typhus. Lately 
 I have paid some attention to the subject, and have often asked people 
 how they have felt, and how they liked the open sewer. I have often 
 heard them complain of head aches and bowel complaints, but I never 
 heard them complain of fever; and it is rather a curious fact that the 
 men in the employ of the Commissioners, who are up to their knees 
 daily in this sort of work, are, by no means, a short-lived race of men, 
 but rather the contrary ; it affects their complexions ; they are pale 
 and sallow ; but they are strong, hearty men ; they live more than the 
 ordinary duration of life. They remain generally a great many years 
 in our employ. 
 
 What do you call a good average duration of life? I was looking 
 at the list of the ages of the men ; none of them come into our service 
 very young ; their average age is about 45. 
 
 Do you know that the average age of some well-conditioned labor- 
 ers is 10 or 12 years greater than that? Those men come into the 
 service none of them very young, perhaps 35, or about that age. Tak- 
 ing the average age of about a dozen men, the age of 45, I should say, 
 shows a very good average. 
 
 You are convinced that the escape from cholera and fevers, and such 
 diseases, of those rnen who have been in the sewers, is a proof that the 
 popular belief as to the general nature of this sewer-water is an error ? 
 I will not say that it amounts to a proof. 
 
 But it is a strong and cogent circumstance in your own mind ? 
 Yes. 
 
 And in the minds of the Commissioners of Sewers who are advised 
 by you? I cannot say that. 
 
 Do you employ the same men constantly ? They never leave us. 
 I only know one case of a man leaving ; he got a pension at Green- 
 wich Hospital, and he was very desirous of being taken back again. 
 
 What is their pay? 4s. 2d. a-day, except the foreman, who has 2 
 a-week. 
 
 There are many narrow courts and alleys in your district which are 
 reported to be some without any drainage at all, and most of them 
 without any proper drainage ; have you any projects for the amend- 
 ment of those courts and alleys ? We have none. 
 
254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 If you were called upon to put down a sewer in a court or small 
 street, what size should you use 1 It depends very much upon the 
 locality we have to work. If it is upon one of the low levels, and the 
 street is sufficiently spacious to enable us to construct a large sewer, we 
 always endeavor to do so. 
 
 What size should you adopt? The average size of our sewers may 
 be taken at 4 feet 9 by 3 feet ; and we should, even in a court, con- 
 struct as large a sewer as that, if it did not endanger the stability of 
 the adjoining houses. 
 
 Which is the largest size of sewer you have used for a court, and 
 what may be the smallest ? In courts, the smallest, and the usual size, 
 is an 18 inch barrel drain. We have used drains 2 feet by 2 feet 6 
 inches, and in a small row of houses, more spacious, however, than 
 what is usually understood by the word court, we recently made a 
 sewer 4 feet 9 by 2 feet 6 inches. 
 
 Supposing an occupier is desirous of draining his house into a sewer, 
 what sized drain do you require him to put in 1 We have hitherto 
 required 15-inch and 12-inch barrel drains; but the question is now 
 under consideration, whether, by adopting glazed tubes, we may not 
 reduce that to 9-inch. 
 
 Is that the size you would stop at? I am not prepared to say that. 
 The Commissioners have resolved to adopt glazed tubes, but we have 
 not definitely settled the size. 
 
 Have yon recently been to the Westminster sewers, and seen what 
 they have in use 1 I went there about a fortnight ago. 
 
 Were you not satisfied that smaller drains than you had been accus- 
 tomed to use were desirable? Only desirable on account of the ex- 
 pense. 
 
 Not on account of any thing in regard to the flow? I think not. 
 
 You still think that a 12-inch drain would be a good size to dis- 
 charge the flow from houses ? I do. 
 
 Will you state the grounds for that opinion ? It would be more easy 
 to state the grounds why I doubt the advantage of the 9-inch. Theo- 
 retically we know that a tube which presents the greatest area, or the 
 greatest friction to fluid passing through it, is that form of tube which 
 is the least adapted for the conveyance of water. Take a 9-inch tube 
 and fill it three-parts full, I apprehend there will be more friction upon 
 the sides there than with a 12-inch tube containing the same quantity 
 of water. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 255 
 
 Will you describe the capacities of the ordinary inlets to this house- 
 drain ; will there not be the sink in the kitchen, and occasionally the 
 soil of the water-closet, supposing- there to be a water-closet 1 Yes. 
 
 Of course the flow from the water-closet is occasional ? Exactly. 
 
 For that you use a 4-inch soil-pipe? Yes, vertical. 
 
 Why then do you use a 12-inch outlet, an outlet nine times greater 
 than the inlet? The outlet, in some parts of it, is nearly level, and it 
 has other things to take besides the soil from the water-closet. 
 
 Take the inlet from the sink ; through what sized pipes do the 
 water sinks in use in your districts drain ? About an inch and a half, 
 or two inches at the outside. 
 
 What is the proportion of the size of the inch and a half pipe as 
 compared with the 12-inch outlet? A 64th part of it. 
 
 Do you think that an outlet 64 times larger than the inlet is neces- 
 sary ? No. There is one reason I may state for laying 12-inch brick 
 drains, and that is, that a great many of the drains are tunnelled under 
 the roads. The men sink a shaft; the man creeps into the hole, and 
 lays the bricks as he goes on, or he even pulls the bricks under him, 
 and so lays the bricks. The bore in which he lays the bricks, could 
 not well be much smaller than of sufficient size to take a 12-inch 
 drain. 
 
 You would not make a 12-inch drain for one house in a court, would 
 you? It has been our practice. 
 
 What is the charge for this entrance from one house into the drain ? 
 The charge, up to the present time, has been a fee of 10s. 6d. upon 
 the application. 
 
 Does the private individual put the drain in himself? No, the Com- 
 missioners put it in, and they charge the cost of the work. 
 
 What is the cost ? It varies from 4s. to 6s. a foot in the deep sewers 
 where there is from 10 to 15 feet of cutting, and perhaps 3s. a foot 
 upon higher levels where there is less cutting. 
 
 Are you district surveyor? Yes. 
 
 Are you not entitled to a fee, in addition to that 10s. 6d,, as district 
 surveyor, all alterations? I am district surveyor to the parish of Clap- 
 ham. The Act is rather doubtful upon that point. I once charged a 
 .fee upon making a drain, but I thought it was wrong, and I have 
 never done so again. 
 
 Are you not aware that some others of the district surveyors have 
 done it ? I am not. 
 
256 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The words of the Act are " every alteration ?" But then, I think, 
 the Act has some words about drains, and requiring houses to be drained 
 into the next adjoining" sewer. 
 
 You have only charged one fee as surveyor ? No. 
 
 Are you in private practice ? I arn. 
 
 Are you surveyor of pavements 1 No. 
 
 Are any of your colleagues 1 One of them is. 
 
 In case of any person wanting access to the plans or surveys, he 
 would go not to the Court, but to yourself; does it depend upon your- 
 self whether you show them to him? Yes. Naturally, any person 
 not meeting with the attention he thought he had a right to demand, 
 would of course have redress, upon applying to the Court ; but I have 
 never known a case of the kind, nor have I known any case of any 
 application for inspection. 
 
 Will you give to the Commissioners a return of the number of house- 
 drains which have been joined to the newly made sewers, or can you 
 state off-hand what the proportion is? I can state that in one sewer 
 up East lane, there have been 30 drains put in within the last three or 
 four years. Those 30 drains probably drain three times as many 
 houses. 
 
 Is it your intention to enforce the recent Act? It is. 
 
 And to enforce it upon the same scale of works you have hitherto 
 adopted, with the exception in those courts and alleys of the substitu- 
 tion of 9-inch for 12-inch drains ? The 9-inch and 12-inch drains do 
 not apply to courts and alleys. I have been speaking of house drain- 
 age. We mean to enforce the same rules, excepting that, it is in con- 
 templation to abandon the 10s. 6d. fee, and to adopt 9-inch drains 
 instead of 12-inch for houses ; but, as to courts and alleys, I know of no 
 alteration. 
 
 Have you any alterations to propose, to correct the evil of the in- 
 creasing the accumulations of sewage matter? We are gradually 
 introducing, though with some hesitation, the ventilating gratings in 
 the centre of the streets. The Commissioners have recently written to 
 Mr. Faraday, Mr. Cooper, and to some of the most eminent chemists 
 to obtain their advice and opinion upon the best way of ventilating 
 the sewers ; and we are expecting a report from Mr. Cooper upon the 
 subject. 
 
 You have expressed the present limit of your proposed alterations ? 
 Yes. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 257 
 
 Have you had frequent complaints made of bad smells coming into 
 houses out of the sewers'? No, we have not. 
 
 Are you in the habit of using valves at the entrance from the sewer 
 into the house drain ? Very rarely. Where we use them, it is upon 
 the lower levels for the purpose of preventing the return of the water. 
 
 You say that you have not heard any complaints made of offensive 
 smells coming from the sewers. The medical men' who have been 
 examined have uniformly complained of them ? If they do exist, I 
 can only account for it from the apathy which people so generally 
 manifest in taking steps to remedy any inconvenience to which they 
 may be subjected. 
 
 Do not you think it would be a convenience to the public, if the 
 sewers and the pavements were under one jurisdiction 1 I think it 
 might. 
 
 You say you have heard of no complaints of any smells arising from 
 the drains? I have heard very few. 
 
 The clerk to the Commissioners admitted that with respect to his 
 own office, the smell arising from the drains was often so bad as to 
 make it extremely disagreeable to remain in the office 1 It may be so; 
 but we have very few complaints. 
 
 Upon what principle are your districts allotted among the several 
 surveyors. Is it according to any natural features? No ; the districts 
 are only allotted by the Commissioners in such portions as they think 
 each surveyor is able to look after. 
 
 Are there any boundary lines ? No. We drain through each other's 
 district, and co-operate. The three surveyors meet every week, or 
 every fortnight. 
 
 It appears, from some papers which have been put in, that the 
 several surveyors use circular forms of sewers, but differing each of 
 them in construction from the others? I think I know the plans which 
 you speak of. The*differences are not material which we adopt. 
 
 Will you specify what are the difference between you ? What dif- 
 ference of construction will Mr. Newman adopt ? Wherein will his 
 sewers of the same size and capacity differ from yours, supposing he 
 has a street to drain ? I think in Mr. Newman's district the ground 
 through which the invert of the sewer is carried is, generally speaking, 
 worse than it is in my district ; and where I should use a nine-inch 
 bottom to the sewer, I apprehend he would use a brick and a half. 
 
 Should you use it if you were in his district? I should. 
 
258 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 That is, you would still use a brick and a half? Yes. 
 
 Take Mr. Gwilt's. What is the difference between his and the 
 others'? In Mr. Gwilt's district the ground lies generally upon a 
 higher level. The ground falls from Lambeth towards Rotherhithe. 
 His sewers relieve themselves very much upon the lower district. Mr. 
 Gwilt would use sewers of a smaller size than we should generally. 
 
 How do they differ in construction from yours? I believe he uses a 
 semicircular top and bottom, and six to nine inches, upright sides. 
 
 If you were under the same circumstances, what, according to your 
 practice, should you use in his district ? I probably should use the 
 same that he does. 
 
 You think it is only a change of adaptation to the district 1 Pre- 
 cisely. 
 
 Are there any differences in respect to the size or adaptation of 
 house-drains or court-drains in either of the districts'? Do they vary 
 from yours as to regulation? No; there is no difference, nor is there 
 any precise regulation. 
 
 What is your habit of joining a collateral sewer with the main 
 sewer? Do they all join at right angles? Our sewers join with the 
 best radius we can give them ; I should say not less than 20 feet radius. 
 Then the house drains would join at right angles. 
 
 And the collateral sewers? The collateral sewers with the best 
 radius which can be obtained. Sometimes we can obtain very little 
 radius. 
 
 Have you ever thought in your district of any adaptations of a water 
 supply, with a view to better flushing or better cleansing the sewers? 
 I have thought of it frequently. Now that we are about arching 
 over so many of the open high level sewers, it will be necessary for us 
 to make* some arrangements with the water companies to get a supply 
 of water. In one case, in the Skin-market, I hav^it in contemplation, 
 and shall endeavor to carry it out, to get a pipe directly into the 
 Thames for it is not above 100 feet from the Thames with a pump 
 to pump water into the sewers. 
 
 How will covering the top, except by excluding some small amount 
 of rain-water, vary the condition of the sewer in respect to its need of 
 
 water? The open sewers hitherto have had very irregular bottoms 
 
 in some places no paved or arched bottoms at all, and in others so 
 irregular that there were not formerly the same facilities that there are 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 259 
 
 now with a proper invert, but with our present open sewers we have 
 pen-stock for the purpose of getting at intervals heads of water. 
 
 If you improve the form of your sewers, and make them more 
 regular, a less quantity of water ought to work them? No doubt it 
 would ; and that is one reason why, when the sewers were so irregular 
 in form both on the surface and in the sectional area, the quantity of 
 water required would have been so large that we despaired of doing 
 any good with it. 
 
 Will those open sewers which you are closing over do permanently 
 for the sewerage of the district? I apprehend that they are peculiarly 
 suited to our district; they assist so materially and so beneficially in 
 taking off the surface water in heavy falls of rain, for instance, that 
 without them our deep sewers must be made of a much larger size. 
 
 Where do they discharge into the Thames? The first of any im- 
 portance in my district is at the Pudding Mill, by Messrs. Home's coal 
 wharf. There are four or five others along Bank-side ; then there are 
 about four between London-bridge and St. Saviour's Dock. 
 
 At what level do they discharge? They discharge at different levels. 
 
 Will you state the extreme difference ? Perhaps there is six or eight 
 feet difference. 
 
 Are there any above high-water mark? No; all of them, I should 
 say, six feet below high-water mark at least. 
 
 Supposing private houses wish to run their drains into those sewers, 
 are they of sufficient depth to carry off the filth of the district? Those 
 high level sewers run through a very wretched district small houses 
 where there are no basements and they all lie four or five feet below 
 the surface, so that for the drainage of that class of houses they are 
 sufficient; and as the district itself is below the level of high-water 
 mark, and the soil inclined to marshy, there is no great inducement to 
 go down for basements. I think that they are peculiarly suited to the 
 physical aspect of the country. 
 
 What operation do you apply to those open sewers anything more 
 than covering them over? We make a brick invert in fact, we make 
 a brick sewer of them instead of an open ditch. 
 
 Have you ever thought of the necessity of making them like your 
 ordinary sewers? We have thought of it, but I have just stated that 
 we endeavor to retain our high levels intact. We are extending as 
 much as possible our low levels, but we do not lose sight of the high 
 levels. 
 
 17 
 
260 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Supposing- the owners of this property should hereafter, convert it 
 into a different class of property 1 Basements cannot be obtained in that 
 locality ; it would be impossible. 
 
 Supposing it were converted into a different class of property, those 
 sewers would be of no use to it? No use to the basements. If we 
 were now to make deep sewers, looking to the reversionary advantage, 
 it would be money ill laid out, in my opinion. The neighborhoods 
 are so dis.'nctly marked in character, that there can be no mistake 
 about it. You would say at once it is not a place in which any good 
 houses would be likely to be built. 
 
 In case of a builder applying to you for a new sewer in any district 
 he is about to cover, what is your mode of charge ? If the sewer is 
 under the public way, and the Commissioners consider that it would 
 be a beneficial thing for the neighborhood to extend any existing 
 sewers, they do extend the sewer, charging" it on the rates, sometimes 
 taking a contribution from the individual. The course they adopt 
 very much is suppose a man desires to run a drain at a distance of 60 
 feet from an existing sewer, they say, " It would answer your purposes 
 if you had an 18-inch or 2-feet barrel drain that would cost you 20/. ; 
 it will cost us 60/. or 70Z. to build such a sewer as the neighborhood 
 requires, therefore you can pay us the 20/., and we will find the re- 
 maining 40/. or 50/.;" and that being done, they construct a deep 
 sewer. 
 
 Does the operation of flushing extend to the whole of your sewers 1 
 My brother surveyors, I think, have tried less flushing than I have, 
 and I have only tried it to a small extent. I am alluding to flushing- 
 gates and the apparatus adopted in Holborn and Finsbury. 
 
 Have you moveable water-boards 1 Yes. 
 
 Does that extend to the whole of your sewers ? Yes. 
 
 How often is it your practice to wash them out in that way ? About 
 once a-year, in some cases oftener; but many sewers do not require it 
 more than once a-year. 
 
 What depth of soil would you find in them at the end of the year? 
 Perhaps 3 or 4 inches, 
 
 Not more ? I do not think there is more. There is a piece of in- 
 formation I gained when I went to Westminster the other day, which 
 I think we should adopt. The greatest obstruction we meet with is 
 at the foot of the traps coming from gullies in macadamized roads. At 
 the foot of every gully shoot there is an obstruction takes place, which, 
 for a certain distance, makes a deposit behind it. I am convinced that 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 261 
 
 we use our sewer-gates with too large openings. They have made a 
 judicious improvement in Westminster in reducing the apertures be- 
 tween the bars of the grate. 
 
 Those improvements have been going on for some years, and you 
 only learnt them a few weeks ago, when you went up at the request 
 of this Commission ? I think I understood that these much smaller 
 openings than usual have been introduced but a very short time. Our 
 modern sewer-gates have openings very materially less than the old 
 ones used to have, so that we have been going on in a course of im- 
 provement. But the Westminster Commission, in that respect, have 
 taken a step beyond us. 
 
 Can you state what the annual expense in your district of cleaning 
 out the sewers is ? The following is an account of the expense of cart- 
 ing and cleansing the sewers in the Southwark district, from the year 
 1832 to the year 1842. ( The same was read as follows) : 
 
 Men's Labor. Cost of Carting. 
 
 s. d. s. d. 
 
 1832, 1159 1 7 307 16 
 
 1833, 958 65 163 11 6 
 
 1834, 1027 83 109 7 
 
 1835, 1028 3 3 114 19 6 
 
 1836, 1020 09 211 5 
 
 1837, 978 14 5 175 1 
 
 1838, 961 14 11 268 13 
 
 1839, 959 1 11 213 1 6 
 
 1840, 986 2 11 268 13 
 
 1841, 973 9 6 248 12 6 
 
 1842, 964 3 4 226 16 
 
 Can you slate what quantity of refuse this paper would denote the 
 removal of? No. Getting rid of it by flushing and drawing it out as 
 we do, the only calculation would be by taking the total length of the 
 sewer, and the mean depth of the deposit. 
 
 A great deal of the back-water, the Commissioners understand, that 
 is driven back, is simply sewer water, not Thames water? No; the 
 Thames water does not get inlo the sewers at all. 
 
 How comes it that in that district, where probably water-closets are 
 not very frequent, such a quantity of sewer water accumulates in the 
 sewers between the times of letting out the water? There are many 
 manufactories upon the line, and a great expenditure of water from 
 steam-engines. 
 
262 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You do not consider, apparently, that you have an adequate supply 
 of water for cleansing the sewers. You stated, that it was your inten- 
 tion, to make application to the water companies for a more abundant 
 supply? There is no great cause to complain of the want of effici- 
 ency a very little assistance would enable us to do all that we want. 
 
 But that assistance you feel you do want 1 We should be glad of it. 
 
 Do you know the amount of supply of water for domestic use ? No. 
 
 You do not know how the people in courts and back streets are sup- 
 plied 1 I know how they are supplied, but I do not know how many 
 gallons are supplied to each house ; they are supplied by stand-cocks 
 in the courts, and they collect it and keep it in water-butts. 
 
 How many days interval are there between the days of supply 1 I 
 think it comes in at intervals of two days. Only the other day I was 
 talking to a man near the Skin-market, and he said that they had been 
 without water for a week. The overflow from those stand-cocks is 
 very important to us in keeping the sewers clean. 
 
 How many Paving Boards have you in your district? I am not able 
 to answer exactly, but I think only two, the Liberty of the Clink, and 
 the Eastern Division of the Borough of Southwark. 
 
 Would not it be a matter of great convenience if the paving and the 
 sewers were under one jurisdiction? I apprehend it would . I may 
 perhaps be allowed to qualify that remark by saying that we never 
 have the least difficulty upon that point. The Commissioners of Sew- 
 ers consider themselves, I hardly know why, as the superior power. 
 No questions are ever asked. After giving the notices, we take up the 
 pavements, and they are laid down lo the satisfaction of Che Commis- 
 sioners of Paving. 
 
 If there were but one jurisdiction, you would not have to give those 
 notices ? No 
 
 When you come into contact with another district, you have to give 
 separate notices? Certainly. 
 
 Who settles the price which shall be paid for the disturbance and re- 
 laying of the pavements? The contractor who undertakes the work 
 and the surveyor of the Commissioners of Paving. All our works are 
 let by contract, including making good the pavement, and all con- 
 nected with it. 
 
 Before he enters into the contract, he inquires how much he will 
 have to pay for breaking up and relaying the pavements ? I presume 
 he does. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 263 
 
 Did you ever hear of any contractor complaining of those charges'? 
 Yes. The only instance I recollect was Messrs. Lee, who executed a 
 sewer in East lane. I believe they had some little difficulty in arrang- 
 ing about making the road good there, but it was no trouble to the 
 Commissioners of Sewers. 
 
 No. 22. 
 MR. JOHN NEWMAN. 
 
 You are the surveyor of one of the districts belonging to the Kent 
 and Surrey Commission of Sewers? I am. 
 
 Will you state how long you have been so 1 I have been so twenty- 
 four years. 
 
 What is the district you superintend 1 It consists of the parishes of 
 Bermondsey, Rotherhithe, Camberwell, St. Paul, and St. Nicholas, 
 Deptford. 
 
 Have you always superintended that area ? I have. 
 
 Were you examined before the Health of Towns Commission 1 I 
 was. 
 
 Before that Commission you stated your general practice in the con- 
 struction of the drainage of that district? I did. 
 
 Will you have the goodness to state to the Commissioners what has 
 been done in your district, in reference to drainage since that period? 
 There have been some works executed since that period. There has 
 been a sewer executed in the Kent road; there has been a sewer exe- 
 cuted in the parish of Camberwell ; and other smaller lengths of sewer 
 in different portions of the district, but those are the main lines since 
 that period. We have not had the means of doing much more. 
 
 Can you slate the length of main sewer which has been made since 
 that period? One in Camberwell, the length 3,195 feet ; the one in 
 Deptford road, 5,534 feet. 
 
 Those you have mentioned are main sewers ? Yes ; they are arched 
 main sewers. 
 
 What quantity of collateral or smaller sewerage has been laid down ? 
 I am not prepared to state the quantity. A great deal has been done. 
 I cannot exactly state the lengths, but believe them to be about 10,278 
 feet. 
 
 Have you any general plan of your district upon which the levels of 
 all the sewers and the level of the country for the purposes of drain- 
 
264 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 age are marked? No, I have not. I have got detailed sections of all 
 the different works done, but no general plan showing the levels of the 
 whole area. 
 
 Do you think that it would be a great advantage if there could be a 
 general plan laid down of the whole district under the Commission ; a 
 plan with contour lines and bench marks, so that you could at once 
 refer to it 1 I think that a general plan, showing all the levels, would 
 be very desirable. 
 
 When you intend to execute a new work, you are now obliged to 
 take all the levels yourself? Yes. 
 
 When there is a new work to be done, how do you estimate the size 
 of the sewer you ought to lay down ? * From the quantity of water it 
 will have to discharge from the several localities. An immense quan- 
 Mty of water in my district descends from the high hills of Surrey. It 
 comes down in torrents, and the sewers require to be of greater capa- 
 city to hold the water, particularly during high tides. 
 
 Is there a general office belonging to the Commissioners of Sewers 
 where such plans as you have are kept, or are they at your own office? 
 At my own office. 
 
 Do you allow the plans to be inspected by any person who wishes 
 to see them? Anybody who wishes may see any of the plans, and we 
 always give any explanations that may be needed. 
 
 What is the general level of that district? It varies from 3 feet 6 
 inches to 9 feet 6 inches below Trinity high-water datum. 
 
 Is the whole of your district under high-water mark? No. Part of 
 Camber well and Deptford at New Cross, are upon very high ground. 
 It is only the marsh-lands I am speaking of which are so much below 
 high -water mark. 
 
 Have you any power to make private individuals drain into the sew- 
 ers? We have no such power, except under the recent Act of last 
 July; under which, sufveyors on surveys, by order of the Board, to 
 see whether the houses are properly drained, may report to the Court, 
 and, if required, the parties are then compelled to make such drains. 
 
 In Bermondsey and Rotherhithe, what is the depth your sewers are 
 underneath the surface? They run from 11 to 15 feet. 
 
 Whereabouts do they discharge into the river? How much under 
 high-water mark ? They discharge at low-water mark. 
 
 Have they all sluice-gates? Yes; and pen -stocks. 
 
 How many houn do the sluice-gates remain closed ? About five 
 hours and a half. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 265 
 
 During- that time are the sewers very full ? Very full, indeed, par- 
 ticularly in wet seasons. 
 
 How full ? Up to the very crown of the arch, and, many times, 
 much higher. 
 
 Does that sewer-water then return up the private drains into the 
 houses? After very heavy floods. It may have happened in such an 
 immense flood, for instance, as we had on the 1st of August, 1846. 
 The water flowed up through the drains of the houses which were not 
 trapped, and through the gullies of the streets, because it happened to 
 be high water at the time, and the sewers were fully charged. 
 
 What charges those sewers in ordinary times? The quantity of 
 water from the heavens. 
 
 In times when there is no rain ? From the houses. 
 
 Is there so much water used in the houses as to fill the sewers to the 
 extent you state? My district is a large manufacturing district, and 
 there is an immense consumption of water from the manufactories, 
 from tanneries, fellrnongers, and various descriptions of manufacturers 
 who consume an immense quantity of water, which all passes into our 
 sewers. 
 
 There are some courts and alleys in your district, are there not ? A 
 great many. 
 
 How many do you imagine are drained into the sewers under your 
 superintendence ? I do not think there are many of them ; there have 
 been some latterly, but I do not think there are many, because the 
 owners of houses refuse to do it. We have applied to them for the 
 improvement of the drainage, and asked of them contributions towards 
 the expense, and we have invariably found an unwillingness to comply 
 with the request and wishes of the Commission. 
 
 From the experience of the new drains you have made during the 
 last three years, do you find that the proprietors run their house-drains 
 into the new works? Very few, indeed. 
 
 To what do you attribute that? I attribute it to the expense. 
 
 What is the expense? It may run from four to five or six pounds a 
 house ; it depends upon the width of the road. 
 
 How do you charge the expense of joining your sewer drains? what 
 is your rate of charge ? It varies very much with respect to the dis- 
 tance of the houses from the sewer, and the sizes of the drains they re- 
 quire. 
 
 Do you allow them to put a drain in of the size they wish, or dp 
 
266 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 you point out to them what the size is to be 1 I generally point it out 
 to them ; some parties prefer one a little larger. It was only yesterday 
 a person to whom I recommended a 9-inch pipe said, "I do not like 
 that, I wish to have a 12-inch drain," 
 
 When that point is decided, who puts in the drain ? is it done by you 
 or by the individual 1 It is done by the Commissioners under the public 
 way, beyond that the party does it himself. 
 
 What is your charge for a 9-inch drain? From 2s. 9d. to 3s. 6cL 
 and 45. a-foot, according to the size of the drain and the depth of 
 ground to be excavated ; that includes disturbing and making good the 
 road. 
 
 Along the line of the new main sewers you have described, are there 
 not many persons in easy circumstances ? There must be a great many. 
 
 Why do you suppose it is that they do not like to make drains'? 
 They cannot get their landlords to incur the expense. In the Camber- 
 well road, which is the length of three-fourths of a mile, the sewer was 
 put down upon the application of the owners und occupiers of the 
 houses, who stated that they were very badly drained their basement 
 stories were continually damp. The Commissioners, under those circum- 
 stances, put down a new sewer, and out of that length there were only 
 eleven applications ; they received all the benefit of draining their 
 basement stories because the sewer drains the land, therefore their base- 
 ment stories became comparatively more healthy than they were be- 
 fore ; but they never thought of making drains from their houses into 
 the sewers. 
 
 Where do the drains go to? To a sewer generally at the back of 
 their premises ; they have open sewers at the back, which is upon a 
 high level, but they have not taken advantage of a lower and deeper 
 sewer. 
 
 In Camberwell New-road have they cesspools or do the privies drain 
 into another sewer? They generally drain into an open sewer at the 
 back. 
 
 Are there many open sewers in your district? Yes. 
 
 Are you doing anything with reference to those sewers? Yes; we 
 have contracted to a very considerable extent for arching the sewers. 
 
 What is the length of open sewer you have contracted for covering? 
 5057 feet. I think we have about 21 miles of open sewer. 
 
 What works do you carry on in order to arch them over ? Do you 
 merely arch them over? We make complete culverts of them. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 267 
 
 Do you mean to say that you have now under contract a distance of 
 21 miles for covering open sewers? No. I mean to say that the 
 open sewers in the district would amount to that length. 
 
 What extent of them are you at the present moment under contract 
 for covering-] Contracts have been entered into to the amount of 
 2390/. 
 
 For what length 1 5057 feet. 
 
 When you put a drain into a house from your sewer, do you charge 
 the expense all at once, or have you liberty to spread the repayment 
 over a certain length of time? Not for a house, but on application for 
 an extended sewer. Under the present Act there is power to spread 
 it over twenty years, I believe. 
 
 Have you had that power long enough to be able to state whether 
 that will induce owners of property to consent more willingly to make 
 the requisite drainage? No ; I have not. 
 
 In the construction of your sewers, no alteration has taken place 
 since 1843 ? Not in my district. 
 
 What is the nature of any alterations which you have in progress 
 or that you have reported upon or recommended to your Court? I 
 have recommended a sewer to take off the Surrey Hills water to Dept- 
 ford down Deptford-lane, the Broadway Deptford High-street, and to 
 have a new outlet at the water-gate. That is of a large capacity, for 
 the purpose of relieving the present sewers, which are overcharged by 
 the quantity of water coming from those hills. 
 
 Would the mouth of the sewer be above high-water mark ? No. 
 That is the main alteration that you have recommended? Yes; 
 there are other sewers I have recommended to be made. 
 
 Have you made that recommendation upon a survey at all ? Yes. 
 And you have cross sections of it? Yes, of every part of it. 
 Could you give in a cross section, and mark the line upon one of 
 your maps? Certainly. 
 
 With relation to the new sewers you have made, how often do you 
 cleanse them ? Those new sewers I am now speaking of I apprehend 
 will seldom require cleansing. The work I did last year at Camberwell 
 was the filling up between two points. In consequence of that not 
 being done, there was at the head an accumulation of soil coming from 
 the collateral sewers ; but immediately I formed the junction and made 
 my sewer complete, the water descending from the hills scoured and 
 washed away the deposit. 
 
268 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You spoke of the great storm last August twelvemonth as filling the 
 sewers ; have you ever had within the same district, within your 
 memory, any similar storms? No so heavy as that; but there have 
 been many storms. 
 
 What was the depth of fall of rain then, or on the occasion of any 
 other considerable storms ? That I do not know. 
 
 Do you know what was the relative depth of the fall in any pre- 
 ceding great storm 1 I do not. 
 
 Do you happen to know whether, within the memory of man, it 
 was known that there was such a storm as that in the district? I have 
 always understood that there never was such a heavy storm. 
 
 Therefore that storm was no standard for the ordinary provision re- 
 quisite in the sewers. No ; I should make them as capacious as possi- 
 ble, in the event of such a storm again. 
 
 Did you see in your district any occasion for making collateral as 
 well as main sewers adapted to that severe storm 1 No. 
 
 Your new sewers are all main lines? Yes. 
 
 In the old sewers it is the practice to cast and cleanse them by hand 
 labor and cartage, is not it ? Not generally ; but seldom . One of my 
 sewers, which I am now casting and cleansing, had not been done for 
 17 years ; and the necessity for it now has only been occasioned by 
 the sewer not having been completed so as to enable it to wash down 
 from other main lines upon it. 
 
 Medical men have described the general sewage of your district as 
 emitting a very offensive effluvia in the houses as well as in the streets 
 in Rotherhithe. One of them says : u The houses are badly drained, 
 badly supplied with water, and an open ditch receives the contents of 
 privies. There is a block of houses where the privies hang over the 
 ditch ; the paths in the fronts of the houses are unpaved and filthy. 
 The district of Rotherhiihe is altogether excessively ill drained, inter- 
 sected with ditches and stagnant water." " Between Staple's Rents 
 and Lucas street there is a filthy ditch ; there is one in Lower Rother- 
 hithe street, opposite the playing-place, called the Pageants ; another 
 between Thames street and Russell street, Lower Rotherhithe. Many 
 of these places are below high water; and the houses are subject to 
 inundations from these sewers when the Thames overflows. The 
 neighborhood is always more unhealthy for a considerable time after 
 these inundations, catarrhal and rheumatic affections prevailing." 
 With respect to St. Olave's, a witness states : " The effluvia given off 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 269 
 
 from the gully-grates is now very offensive indeed. I can speak now 
 particularly of one before my own house. It really makes me sick to 
 go out of my door at times. This effluvia is generally productive of 
 disordered health ; it induces a low nervous condition and chronic dys- 
 pepsia." " Have any applications within your knowledge been made 
 to the Commissioners of Sewers for any remedy ? I do not remember 
 at present any particular cases, I believe that Mr. Newman, who is 
 the surveyor to the Commissioners of Sewers, has been applied to ; but 
 he states that nothing can be done to relieve the parish from (he efflu- 
 via arising from the sewers up the gratings." St. Olave's is not in my 
 district, therefore no application can have been made to me. I am 
 surveyor of pavements there. 
 
 In other districts it is described that the flooding of the houses with 
 sewer-water is very great; and doubts are expressed whether the con- 
 dition of those houses which join on to the sewers is really belter than 
 the condition of those which do not communicate with the sewers. 
 Can you undertake to say that, considering this liability in the district 
 to flooding 1 with sewer-water, and to the effluvia, you would yourself 
 think that there is any adequate advantage to be derived from going to 
 the expense of joining on a house-drain to the sewer? In my district, 
 from the improvement of the sewage in it, I have but seldom any 
 floodings of water. Years ago, when I was appointed surveyor, we used 
 to be flooded every winter; but now we are not annoyed in that 
 way . 
 
 How frequent may the floodings be in your district at present ? 
 They are very seldom. 
 
 At each extraordinary high tide ? After a very heavy storm of rain ; 
 if it happens to be high water in the river at the time, there may be 
 an accumulation of water. 
 
 Do you think that this description given of the state of Rotherhithe 
 and that district is erroneous or over-colored ? I think there must be 
 some mistake upon that subject. With respect to Rotherhithe, it is clear 
 they are very badly off for water; and it is only within the last three 
 or four years that they have had the advantage of a supply by the 
 South wark water works. It is only within the last two months that a 
 portion of Rotherhithe has had any water at all. All the water that 
 the people got there was from the ditches. Those ditches in Rother- 
 hithe are cleansed every day by the tide. The tide is admitted, it 
 cleanses the sewers, and they discharge themselves at a different point 
 
270 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 lower down in (he parish. So that those houses in Rotherhithe have 
 all the advantage of the tide twice a-day ; they are all upon the upper 
 level. 
 
 The place therefore from which they get water is the place into 
 which all the filth is thrown? Yes ; the water from the river used to 
 flow down those places at the sides of those sewers where the privies 
 discharge themselves; but that was the only water the inhabitants 
 had . 
 
 Notwithstanding the tide coming in, is not there a great sediment 
 remaining in the ditches'? Yes. ^ifa 
 
 Are you not obliged to clean them out occasionally, and throw it 
 upon the banks ? I am obliged to do that constantly. 
 
 Then there is no effectual scour? It takes off a great deal ; it pre- 
 vents accumulation. Every week I have four men employed in the 
 district, whose duty it is to wash those sewers. 
 
 Therefore it requires artificial means frequently to clean them out? 
 Yes. 
 
 What proportion do the covered sewers bear to the open sewers in 
 your district ? I think, taking the new sewers we have done lately, 
 the covered sewers are about 10 miles in proportion to 21 miles of open 
 sewer. 
 
 Have not you observed very offensive odors from those sewers and 
 ditches? Very much so; I have brought down here to-day a specimen 
 of the gully-trap which I have invented, and which our Commissioners 
 intend to adopt, which will prevent the effluvia passing through the 
 gratings into the streets. 
 
 Suppose you trap those gully-holes, the offensive gas must escape 
 somewhere, must not it ? Yes ; we have in the centre of the streets air- 
 gratings, so that we remove the nuisance from the fronts of the houses 
 to the centre of the street. 
 
 How long have you had those central air-gratings? Two or three 
 years. 
 
 How many Paving Boards are there in your district, independently 
 of that you are surveyor to? I do not know the number ; I am sur- 
 veyor of three parishes in my district. 
 
 Are you in private practice? Yes; and I am also surveyor to the 
 Improvements, to the Commissioners of the Eastern Division of South- 
 wark. 
 
 Are there many Boards besides those you are surveyor to ? Yes ; 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 271 
 
 Western Division of Southwark, Clink Liberty, Bermondsey Improve- 
 ments, St. Mary Rotherhithe, St. George the Martyr, St. Mary Lam- 
 beth, St. Giles Camberwell, St. Paul and St. Nicholas Deptford. 
 
 What is your opinion as to the consolidation of the two Commis- 
 sions, and putting- both -the Paving Board and the Commission of 
 Sewers under one jurisdiction ? That is a very important question. 
 My impression is, having paid great attention to paving, that if a con- 
 solidation of all the Paving Boards could be accomplished, it would be 
 a great public service. 
 
 Will you specify the advantages which would arise from a consoli- 
 dation of the Paving Boards alone? In our Paving Boards there are 
 several things to be attended to. There is the paving to be attended 
 to ; the cleansing, the lighting, and obstructions and nuisances of every 
 kind have all to be attended to. Those are points upon which I 
 should say great improvements could be made. I think that a uniform 
 system of paving in all the parishes would be very desirable. In my 
 district several streets are intersected transversely and longitudinally by 
 an adjoining district, viz., Crucifix lane, Artillery street, Church street, 
 and Russell street. As to casting and cleansing, if that were done 
 under one body, and under a powerful and well-directed energy, the 
 whole might be cleansed with greater effect than by the present sub- 
 divisions. The lighting is all done by contract; and I am not aware 
 that there would be any great improvement upon that point. W T ith 
 respect to the obstructions and nuisances, they are continually arising 
 day by day. If any obstruction take place, there is an immediate ap- 
 plication to the Board, complaining of it, and requiring it to be abated. 
 Having to go to a public Board, unless there is a very good arrange- 
 ment in the management of the system, there must be frequent diffi- 
 culties arise, whereas by going to the surveyor or to the clerk, or to the 
 street-keeper, those obstructions and nuisances might be immediately 
 removed. If they could have all those facilities as they do now, I 
 think that would be a great public advantage. 
 
 You state that with respect to lighting, as it is done by contract, 
 there would be no great gain by consolidation. Does not lighting also 
 imply the laying down pipes in the streets 1 Yes. 
 
 Does not that break up the surface ? Yes. 
 
 Then is not it of very great importance that the right to breakup the 
 surface of the sireet, or to permit it to be broken up for such a purpose 
 should reside in the same body that permits the breaking up of the 
 
272 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 streets for other purposes'? Yes, unquestionably, as far as laying down 
 the mains. My chief difficulty in keeping pavements in the substan- 
 tial state in which they are arises from the disturbance of the pavements 
 by putting down gas and water pipes. 
 
 Your opinion the Commissioners understand to be, that it would be 
 a great public advantage, if the right of permitting the pavements to be 
 broken up for every purpose resided in one and the same authority? I 
 am afraid there would be difficulties upon that point. Two years ngo, 
 a pavement, I think, of between forty and fifty feet in length, half the 
 width of the street, blew up from the bursting of a pipe ; it required 
 immediate attention ; it was a main pipe. The street became flooded, 
 and had it not been for the great exertion made at the time, there would 
 have been considerable damage done to the inhabitants of that district. 
 There may be some obstruction arise in a main pipe, and at present 
 companies have the power to take up those pipes in cases of accident or 
 any defect in the pipes, without application to the surveyor or clerk, 
 and twenty-four hours after that they must come forward and produce 
 vouchers of the work done. 
 
 Why could not that relief be given as well by a consolidated Board 
 as by disjointed and separate Boards ? It depends upon the system 
 adopted. If the inspectors had power immediately to repair any damage 
 done in any public streets I think there would be great advantage. 
 
 Why should not the power reside in one consolidated Board as well 
 as in several disjointed Boards 1 In each parish there is now a sur- 
 veyor ; he is on the spot to attend to anything requiring to be done ; 
 he being upon the spot can attend to any representation of the inhab- 
 itants or rate-payers of the district immediately. If the Beard, how- 
 ever, were a far-removed Board, and the surveyor or inspector were not 
 at hand to attend to those things, the rate-payers generally would not 
 be so well satisfied. 
 
 You say that the surveyor is always upon the spot. Is not the parish 
 surveyor generally in private practice 1 In the parish of Lambeth the 
 Committee themselves are all surveyors, and in Camberwell there is no 
 professional man ; the surveyor there is by profession a gardener, an 
 intelligent and active man. 
 
 Will not he be occupied now and then with his garden ? I do not 
 think they allow him to be so. He devotes his whole time to his 
 office. 
 
 Is not one of the surveyors in your neighbourhood a tinman ? I am 
 not aware of it. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 273 
 
 Supposing the case of a man employed in a trade, are you always so 
 sure of his being- present and available in case of an accident as a man 
 giving his whole time to the office 7 Certainly not. 
 
 Therefore, though a man may be in the parish, yet, being in a trade, 
 he may be out on business of his own, and may not be so available as 
 a man at a great distance, but giving his whole time to the subject ? 
 Certainly. 
 
 When you are making a new sewer in a street, you send notice to 
 the Commissioners of Pavements, do you not ? Yes. 
 
 Do not you think ii would be a convenience that both departments 
 being under the same body no notice would be required 1 It would be 
 unnecessary. If the same body are the Commissioners of Pavements 
 and the Commissioners of Sewers at the same time, it would not be ne- 
 cessary to give notice. 
 
 Would not that be a public convenience 1 We have never sustained 
 any inconvenience yet. 
 
 Do the Commissioners of Sewers ever raise the question with the 
 Commissioners of Pavements, " Are you going to pave" such a street? 
 " because we are going to make" such a sewer, u so that both works 
 may be carried on in conjunction ?" No, we never raise the question. 
 
 Do not you think you ought to know when you are going to make a 
 new sewer whether a pavement is going to be laid down shortly ? That 
 is one object. We give them so many days' notice that we are going 
 to carry out such a sewer. 
 
 If it was the same body that difficulty would not occur ? No. 
 
 If water companies and gas companies were going to lay down a 
 main, or if you were going to lay down a sewer, would not it be a 
 great advantage that they all should be able mutually to communicate 
 those intentions, so that the whole work might be done at the same 
 time ? That has never happened to me. 
 
 Of course continual stoppages of thoroughfare in the streets is a great 
 inconvenience to the traffic of the district 1 Of course. 
 
 If the works were constructed by a strong establishment instead of a 
 weak one, that is to say, by a consolidated one, would not it enable 
 those operations to be carried on with proportionably increased ra- 
 pidity ? That is a point of practice. 
 
 Do not you know that in point of fact in the city of London, the pav- 
 ing in the larger thoroughfares is much more rapidly taken up and re- 
 laid than in parishes ? I think not. Last Saturday night I finishsd a 
 
274 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 quantity of paving in my parish in a case in which the whole thorough- 
 fare was obstructed, from Gracechurch street to the Town Hall, for that 
 street alone, which I was obliged to stop up ; but it was done in five 
 days ; a piece of work from its difficulties, I am satisfied, was never 
 done more quickly, or substantially, in the city of London. 
 
 What is the comparative size of your parish compared with the 
 whole city of London ? It is very small. 
 
 It is to be admitted, of course, that they have a larger establishment 
 in the city, if they use it with vigour 1 Yes ; no doubt a larger es- 
 tablishment and greater power may be the means of paving those 
 streets upon emergencies with greater rapidity than parishes generally do; 
 but I was only speaking of one case which occurred to myself last week. 
 Knowing the necessity of the case, I had that length of street done with 
 great rapidity. In Duke street, I introduced thin cast iron slips two 
 inches below the surface to form a foothold for the horses, as this street 
 is very steep, and heavy loads from the wharves and other places pass 
 through it. 
 
 What length was it 1 I should say about 200 feet, and the width 
 60 feet. It is at the bottom of Duke street and Tooley street. 
 
 How many men had you at it ? I think we had at times 13 pa- 
 viours ; as many men as could work with effect. 
 
 When stone is worn out with you in a main street, do you pick it 
 down or throw it aside ? The old stone is taken up and redressed and 
 used in secondary streets. 
 
 If you have a large district, have not you better opportunities for re- 
 laying stone, and using and economizing materials of that description 
 than if you have a small one 7 It would be so. 
 
 Therefore there is an advantage in that respect, and also the advan- 
 tage of a large establishment, with great force to remove any obstruc- 
 tion 1 Certainly. 
 
 In an engineering point of view, is not the adaptation of gully- 
 shoots, and the general arrangements of draining for a street, a most 
 important part of the work of the street, considered as a whole ? Yes. 
 
 The inclination of the surface of the street is very important, with a 
 view to the discharge of the surface-water ? Certainly. 
 
 As an architect, or a person conducting such works, will you say 
 that they can be conducted separately without disadvantage ? I think 
 they can be most advantageously for the public carried on upon a good 
 system of inspection and survey under one Board. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 275 
 
 Yon do not happen to know probably much of the paving of any 
 other districts than your own 1 No. 
 
 Have you taken the traffic of your streets at all ? No, our traffic is 
 very heavy. There are a great many wharves. 
 
 The consolidation would lead to these advantages, a strong establish- 
 ment instead of a weak one, officers of higher skill with better pay ; 
 more quick execution of the public work in the stoppage of thorough- 
 fares, and a better adaptation of one part of the work to another ? I 
 have given a general opinion upon the subject. In my own parish I 
 do not consider it a weak establishment. They have done their work 
 very zealously, and they have done it with the best materials, as quickly 
 as possible, for the advantage of the public. 
 
 Who are your contractors ? There are various persons. A contract 
 of above 200/. always goes by public advertisement. 
 
 If an application is to be made respecting the pavements, the parties 
 apply to your Board ? Yes. 
 
 Would it not be more convenient for parties to apply to the* same 
 Board for any work respecting the sewer as well as the pavement ? If 
 you extend it over a large district, you will have so many applications, 
 that even in one day you would not go over them all. 
 
 How is it conducted in the city of London 1 I am comparing the. 
 city of London with different parishes in Surrey. The constant appli- 
 cations of individuals complaining about the pavements, or some nui- 
 sance or obstruction, would be so numerous, that I question whether one 
 Board could undertake to attend to them. 
 
 How often does the Paving Board, of which you are surveyor, meet? 
 Every fortnight, and Committees once a-fortnight. 
 
 Complaints are made to the Board 1 Yes. 
 
 Then, as that Board meets but once a-fortnight, if another Board 
 were established for the whole district, and met somewhat oftener, it 
 would be possible to transact this amount, of business ? Every day in 
 such a large locality as the borough of Southwark there would be ap- 
 plications of various descriptions from individuals, so numerous and so 
 incessant, that I apprehend unless it were divided into Committees, 
 there would be great difficulty for any public Board going through their 
 business. 
 
 Have the inspectors or surveyors in that district no liberty of action 
 without coming to the Board'? No ; I must summon every one to the 
 Board. A printed summons in every case is laid before the Board. 
 18 
 
276 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Supposing a party wishing to complain of a nuisance which may be 
 remedied directly, would not he come to you, and might not you do it 
 without his going to the Board ? It would be desirable if I could do so. 
 
 What would (here be to prevent that being done if there was a con- 
 solidated Board ? If surveyors and inspectors had the power of doing 
 so without bringing the case before the Board, it would be a very great 
 improvement upon the system. 
 
 Supposing the Board to be systematized ; if there were one nnpaved 
 court, would not you have rules laid down for the pavement of that 
 court and the drainage of it, so that it might be fairly intrusted to the 
 officers of the district, instead of its having to go before the Board, occu- 
 pying the time of the Board with the details of it 7 I think such a sys- 
 tem, with intelligent officers, would relieve the Board from a great deal 
 of duty. 
 
 And the more you systematize, the less there would be of that detail? 
 Yes ; let there be proper officers let them feel their responsibility to 
 the Board, and, at the same time, let them have discretion to do that 
 which is right in any case that may come before them. 
 
 General rules would be laid down which they must follow ; the 
 difference would be, that whereas, under the present system, they must 
 .come to the Court with every individual complaint, in future it would 
 be regulated by general rules? Yes. 
 
 Would not that be a great saving of time? Yes; I could often 
 remedy a nuisance which may be complained of; but if I were to do 
 so without bringing it before the Board, I should be reprimanded for 
 doing it, even though it were a case in which it might be a fortnight 
 before the Board would meet again. 
 
 Have you ever guaged the run of water in your main and collateral 
 sewers? Not in the collateral sewers; I have in my main sewers. I 
 had guages laid down in all my main sewers to Trinity high-water 
 mark, in order to guage the sewers throughout my division. 
 
 Have you made any use of them ? They have been the means of 
 deciding me in laying out all my sewers. 
 
 You have been governed, in carrying out your sewers, by your 
 
 _ * 
 
 guages? Yes. 
 
 Can you give a synoptical view of the flow of water in the gunges? 
 No, I am afraid not. 
 
 You have no guages at present? No. 
 
 With respect to the sizes of the house-drains, if you had to drain a 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS.. 277 
 
 court of twenty houses, such as would be occupied by the laboring 
 classes, what would be the size of your sewer'? Fifteen inches to two 
 feet. 
 
 Would your colleagues all use that size? Each would use his own 
 discretion . 
 
 What size is Mr. Gvvilt in the habit of using 1 I do not know. 
 
 Or Mr. PAnson? I do not know ; it depends upon circumstances 
 very much. Where those fourth-rate houses are, they are continually 
 being choked up. Therefore, in every twenty-five feet I have a cast- 
 ing-hole, so that the men may cast or cleanse, them. 
 
 What is the largest, and what is the smallest court and alley size you 
 employ ? I hare not had many put down in courts and alleys. 
 
 What size of house-drain would you use for a 20-feet front house 1 
 I have taken 9-inch drains, 12-inch drains, and 15. 
 
 W T hat size do you most frequently use? I have adopted 9-inch 
 pipes. 
 
 Have you used any pipes? 1 am now using them. 
 
 How long is it since you began to use them ? Within the last nine 
 or ten months. 
 
 Why do you fix upon the capacity of nine inches? I think, from 
 being glazed inside, they are not likely to get so much obstructed as 
 brick ; therefore* I have introduced them, that I may, by the experience 
 hereafter, determine which to adopt. 
 
 Do you deduce the size of the drain you employ from the hydraulic 
 flow ? No. 
 
 It will be a discharge drain, perhaps, to a rain-water pipe three inches 
 in diameter ; or supposing the place to have a soil-pan and water- 
 closet apparatus, a pipe of four inches diameter? I have never intro- 
 duced a 9-inch pipe to receive the soil from a water-closet. 
 
 The ordinary flow would be from the water-sink in the scullery? 
 Yes, and the surface water from the back yard and from the privy. 
 
 Take the case of the scullery, the pipe there in use may be about 
 two inches in diameter ? Yes. 
 
 What will be the relation of the size of the 2-inch pipe to the 9-inch 
 pipe ? I should make them the same ; if there were a 2 inch lead pipe 
 from a stone sink, T should make the same size to the 9-inch drain. 
 
 Why do you employ a 9-inch drain to carry off the discharge from 
 a 2-inch pipe? I suppose the 9-inch drain to take the surface water 
 from the yard, or from the premises generally. 
 
278 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Can you make out so great an amount of either rain-water or house- 
 water, or soil from the privy, as to justify you in employing a 9-inch 
 drain? I have only lately introduced them, and I am watching the 
 progress of those experiments to determine hereafter what will be the 
 best pipes to use under the circumstances. 
 
 Previously to that you had used 12 and 15-inch pipes from houses 1 
 9 inches, 12 inches, and 15 inches ; 9 inches principally. 
 
 And unless you employ this glazed pipe, you would not alter those 
 circumstances in relation to brick drains? There is one inconvenience 
 in the pipes ; in the event of a stoppage, I am obliged to break up two 
 pipes to get to the obstruction; in a brick drain, removing three or 
 four bricks will do it ; therefore, in making rep^rs, the brick drains 
 have the advantage ; but with those well-glazed pipes I do not expect 
 there will be such obstructions. I have had an instance of a 9-inch 
 drain at a charity-school, where aprons, stays, and shoes were put 
 down the privy, and they got down and choked up the drain. If that 
 happened in a 9-inch pipe, it would cost me more trouble than remov- 
 ing the bricks to be get at the obstruction. I have suggested that half 
 the pipe should made to open ; that one-half should be let down upon 
 the other, so that we might remove the upper part. 
 
 The joints not being cemented, might not one length of pipe be 
 taken out of the other 1 I they are not cemented, the water will pass 
 through the joints and get under the basements of the houses. 
 
 If you deliver water on a wide surface, that is, on a 12-inch instead 
 of a 9-inch, will not you proportionably increase the friction ? Un- 
 questionably. 
 
 By increasing the friction and retarding the flow, will not you in- 
 crease the deposit? Certainly. 
 
 May not the too large size of the drains, therefore, cause an obstruc- 
 tion ? I think it is as bad to make themjoo large as too small. 
 
 Where have you seen too small drains erected ? I am making in 
 Peckham 4-inch pipes to take off the rain-water. 
 
 What is the area of a third-rate house with the yard ? A third-rate 
 house would have a garden double the size of the house, perhaps. 
 
 What sized pipe would carry off a fall of an inch of rain in an hour 
 from such an area? A small pipe would take off the rain-water. 
 
 Is there anything peculiar in the sewage in your district, differing it 
 from any other district ? The construction of sewers in my district is 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 279 
 
 very different from the construction of sewers in other districts. My 
 district is so much below low-water mark; the soil through which I 
 have to drive the sewers is very bad, silty, gravelly, and full of springs ; 
 so much so, that I am going to put up next week a steam engine to 
 keep down the water while I am executing the sewer. 
 
 Where is thai? In the Kent Road. 
 
 You spoke of some gully-traps which you had invented, and which 
 were very effectual in the prevention of any nuisance* from them ? Yes. 
 Tin's (producing the same) is the trap which I have used. I have had 
 one in action fifteen or sixteen years, and only once during that time 
 has it required any repair. This trap was put down under peculiar 
 circumstances. A butcher complained that his meat was always spoiled 
 from a gully-grate directly opposite his shop window. Of course it was 
 a great grievance, and the Commissioners directed me to see what I 
 could do, either by removing the gully-grate or inventing some trap to 
 prevent it. Removing the gully-trap I objected to, because it altered 
 my arrangements, and therefore I turned my attention to making a 
 new gully-trap. Immediately the trap was put down it was so 
 effective that the man never complained afterwards. 
 
 Are you really of opinion that the advantage derived from letting 
 the effluvia escape in the middle of the street, instead of the side, is 
 sufficient to call for, or justify the expense Qf all those traps ? That is 
 a very important question. The fact is, it would be dangerous for our 
 men to work in those sewers had not they air given to then). Before I 
 cause men to go into sewers to examine drains or to repair any drain, I 
 require that the sewer shall be ventilated by having the chambers open 
 for two or three days before they attempt to go in ; the escape from 
 gas pipes goes very much into those sewers. I have had men severely 
 burnt ; there was one man who was in the hospital six weeks from be- 
 ing burnt in consequence of going into one of the sewers before it was 
 properly ventilated. 
 
 Have you had any cholera in the district? There was in 1832. 
 
 Do you know whether the men who were employed in cleansing 
 those open sewers were affected with cholera? I had twenty-eight 
 men employed during that time, as well as some extra men, and during 
 that time not one of them was ill, and they went into the most filthy 
 places you can imagine. 
 
 A great deal of cleansing went on at that particular time, did not it? 
 Yes, the companies were more liberal during that period in letiing their 
 water run than usual. 
 
280 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What is the conclusion you draw from the fact that none of your 
 men were taken ill? Those men had been working in my district 
 during my time and that of my predecessors for thirty or forty years. 
 Many of the men have been there during my time fifteen or twenty 
 years, and, generally speaking, I have never had any complaint of 
 illness from those men ; they have never applied to me for tickets for a 
 dispensary or hospital. 
 
 To what do you attribute the fact of those men ecaping injury ? is it 
 from the use of ardent spirits? Those men drink ardent spirits, no 
 doubt, or they could not get through their work ; but, generally speak- 
 ing, I have never seen those men affected by drinking them. If a man 
 drinks ardent spirits to excess, his constitution is sure to suffer, but I 
 have not found it the case with those men. 
 
 Are those men persons of good moral habits, generally speaking 1 
 Yes : the men I generally select are men who have been working in 
 the construction of sewers a long time ; if I find them industrious men, 
 I like to give the appointment to them. 
 
 Is the appointment much sought after? Yes. 
 
 On account of the high wages ? I do not think that the wages are 
 high considering the work they have to do. 
 What are their wages? 4s. 2d. a-day. 
 Do they work daily ? Yes. 
 
 What are their hours? From 8 o'clock in the morning- till 4 o'clock 
 in the afternoon. 
 
 And they do that daily? Yes. 
 
 How many men have y6u under your employment? I have now 
 twenty. I have extra men occasionally. 
 
 Do the same set of men remain with you long ? We seldom or ever 
 have a change ; there is a change only in case of death. 
 
 W T hat age do you suppose the oldest man you have with you is? I 
 think I may have one man 70 years of age, and others varying from 
 20 to 60, but most of them from 20 to 40 ; and as to those men also, 
 where one of them has conducted himself with propriety in my service 
 in those sewers, if his boy comes up to proper age, I take him into my 
 service. 
 
 Have you many above 40 ? I think some of them are above 40 ; the 
 average, I should say, was about 40. 
 
 From what you have stated, it would appear that your men arc 
 selected men ? They are men who are picked out from this circum- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 281 
 
 stance, that they are men of good character and good strength, who are 
 accustomed to that description of work. Many men would not do to 
 go into those sewers. 
 
 Why would not they do? It is such filthy work that they would 
 not take it. 
 
 You would not <ake for the execution of such work the thinly con- 
 structed men whom you find pursuing sedentary occupations, such as 
 tailors, and that class of people, would you? Certainly not. 
 
 Then it comes to this, that you pick out the strongest men you can 
 get? We pick out strong, healthy men, and generally men who have 
 worked in the construction of sewers. 
 
 Are there many Irish 1 Very few. 
 
 No. 23. 
 HENRY AUSTIN, ESQ., C. E. 
 
 The Commissioners have been given to understand, from the evi- 
 dence of the officers of the Surrey and Kent district of sewers, that the 
 great difficulty in the proper drainage of that portion f of the metropolis, 
 arises from the impossibility of obtaining sufficient fall in the sewers, 
 and from the outlets to the river being closed during a great portion of 
 the tide, the most considerable part of the district being under high- 
 water mark. You have been requested to examine the locality, and 
 report your opinion whether any means of improvement might be 
 adopted, and how far it might be practicable to raise the contents of 
 the sewers at all periods by pumping. Will you have the goodness to 
 state to the Commissioners your views on the subject'? According to 
 the instructions with which the Commissioners have honored me, I 
 have examined the principal features of the district, partly in company 
 with the surveyors of the districts. It would be mere repetition, how- 
 ever, to describe the characteristics of the locality, as they have already 
 been accurately given in evidence. There is a lamentable deficiency 
 of drainage, properly so called ; great reservoirs, or sewers, constructed 
 for storing the liquid refuse of the district, until the time arrives for its 
 discharge forming, in fact, periodic cesspools have been laid to some 
 extent, at vast expense, along many of the main, and some of the 
 secondary lines of thoroughfare; but house drainage into these reser- 
 voirs, or of any kind, indeed, otherwise than of the most primitive and 
 disgusting order, into ope-n-^esspplls and ditches, is very much the ex- 
 ception to the geaeral rule* .',",' 
 
 ' ITY 
 
282 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What do you suppose is the reason of so few houses draining into 
 the sewers that are provided 1 There is little question, I believe, that 
 the main cause is the immediately heavy outlay that would be neces- 
 sary, but the advantages of such a house drainage are so very question- 
 able, that I believe it will be the greatest hardship on the inhabitants 
 of the district, if the Commissioners be allowed to enforce the provi- 
 sions of their recent Act, and compel such a drainage, before most 
 effect ual means of improvement of the sewers themselves, have been 
 first put in practice. 
 
 Do you mean that the inhabitants are better off with cesspools than 
 they would be with drains into these sewers'? I do. Poisonous and 
 disgusting as the cesspool is, I believe, that where it is at all removed 
 from the house, there is less danger to the health of the inhabitants, 
 than there would be in a direct communication with such sewers, 
 and for this obvious reason. It is admitted that there is constant 
 deposit in these sewers, which, of course, is ever creating noxious gas. 
 Under ordinary circumstances, where the outlet is free, a great propor- 
 tion of the gas is discharged with the current ; but, in tins case, at 
 every tide, twice a day, immediately that the valves are closed, this gas 
 is displaced, particularly in time of rain, by the volume of water which 
 fills the sewers, and is then forcibly driven into the houses that com- 
 municate with them. The cesspool, bad as it is, is outside the house, 
 constantly open to the atmosphere, and so its noxious influence, at any 
 rate, is somewhat diluted ; but, in the case of the drain or sewer, the 
 poison newly generated is driven directly into the house in periodic 
 succession. The remedy would be certainly worse than the .disease. 
 It is much to be desired that these compulsory powers should be sus- 
 pended until the remedy for the evil has been applied. 
 
 Have you considered the improvements that could be made in the 
 present drainage, so as to remove this inconvenience, and render the 
 sewers generally efficient and available for house drainage? There is 
 little doubt that much improvement might be effected in the present 
 system, but it could only be carried out at vast expense ; and, to 
 extend this system over the whole district, so as to render it general 
 and complete, even under such improved arrangements, would not 
 only be ruinous in cost, but the great evils, after all, would only be 
 lessened, not removed. With a district so situated, nearly flat, and, 
 for the most part, several feet under high-water mark, all attempts at 
 providing an adequate natural drainage, direct into the river, must end 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 283 
 
 in failure. Do what you will, it must be a cesspool system still. A 
 small additional current of two or three feet may certainly be obtained, 
 in some cases, by lowering the outfalls to low-water mark, but the 
 advantage of this, carried over a distance of two miles or more, would 
 scarcely be appreciable, and could be carried out only at immense 
 expense. It appears to be absolute that this artificial state of things 
 should be treated artificially, and mechanical appliances brought to 
 bear, to lift and discharge the refuse constantly as it is produced. In- 
 termittent drainage is somewhat more barbarous than intermittent water 
 supply. It does seem extraordinary, that, with the steam engine 
 applied in almost every useful relation of life, its adaptation to this 
 great purpose for the relief of flat districts of towns of its refuse and 
 water, should never have been attempted. It was very satifactory to 
 me to find, on proposing the system to Mr. Chadwick, that the idea of 
 its practicability had already been impressed on his own mind, from 
 observation as to the efficiency and small expense of pumping, for the 
 purpose of agricultural drainage. We have ample experience as to 
 the facility with which refuse may be pumped, in its application, in 
 several instances, to agricultural purposes. It only remains a question 
 as lo the best arrangement of the drainage to jealize the object in the 
 most efficient and economical manner. 
 
 Have you considered the best means of effecting this object'? I 
 have. The difficulty of drainage of flat districts of towns, or where 
 the natural current of the rivers and main outfalls is intercepted by 
 mill-dams and other obstructions, has long been a subject of considera- 
 tion with me, and further study and inquiry have only added to the 
 conviction of the practicable character of the plan that I desire to offer 
 to the notice of the Commission. It is the same in principle with 
 modifications suitable to each locality as that I had the honor to pro- 
 pose for both Worcester and Rugby, when consulted upon the improve- 
 ment of those towns ; and, confident of its applicability, I am about to 
 propose the same system for the re-establishment of the drainage of 
 Rome, having, at a recent interview, been honored with the authority 
 of his Holiness to report to him upon that subject. 
 
 W T ill you have the goodness to describe the system that you propose, 
 and the application of it to a district situated as the Surrey and Kent 
 division of the metropolis? I will endeavor to do so. In considering 
 a plan for the relief of the sewers, and the prevention of the pollution 
 of the river, by pumping, the first idea that naturally presents itself is 
 
284 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 the establishment of some arrangement at or near to the outfalls in the 
 river, to which the waters would drain by their present course, and 
 whence they would be conveyed in the desired direction. Only one 
 part of the object, however, would be realized by such a plan. Al- 
 though no longer forming reservoirs of liquid refuse, penned up by 
 the tide, the sewers themselves would still remain unimproved, and 
 would be capable of but little amendment. Their sluggish currents, 
 from want of fall, would still leave their foul deposits poisoning the 
 neighborhood, and admit of no improvement in the extension of the 
 system. I shall be prepared to show that this remedy would not only 
 be partial and defective, but would cost as much as a general and per- 
 manent improvement of the whole system by the means proposed, in 
 which the object aimed at is the establishment of a complete and inde- 
 pendent system of drains rather than sewers over the whole area, for 
 the removal of the whole refuse of the district, and to which, in the 
 Surrey and Kent division, the present sewers or reservoirs, as far as they 
 are constructed in the main lines, both on the deep and surface level, 
 would be useful auxiliaries in times of storm. The district to be drained 
 should be apportioned into convenient sections or divisions, the drain- 
 age of which would be totally independent and distinct, converging to 
 the centre of each division with any desired current, and from these 
 centres the liquid would be raised by steam-engines, placed at any con- 
 venient point in connexion with them by pipes. This skeleton plan 
 of the populous part of the Surrey and Kent district (see annexed 
 plate,) will best explain my meaning, it being understood that the 
 divisions of the district there represented, the position of the centre 
 points or wells, and the situation of the engine power, are only 
 assumed for the purpose of illustration, without at all presuming that 
 they would be the most desirable to adopt. These are matters, the 
 correct determination of which, would demand much consideration and 
 study of local circumstances and arrangement. Beyond the consider- 
 ation of these circumstances, the extent of each division would be lim- 
 ited only by the amount of fall that it would be necessary to preserve, 
 to allow of a certain maximum size of drain, and the depth of digging 
 that might be thought desirable. 
 
 What limits do you propose in these respects ? The most important 
 consideration appears to be the size and material of the drains, and I 
 have founded my calculations on the basis that the maximum size of 
 the main outfall drains should not exceed a dimension that would be 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 285 
 
 conveniently manufactured in pottery clay, so as to allow of the estab- 
 lishment, throughout, of a complete system of pipe drainage rather than 
 of brick sewers. I, therefore, fir the limit of the largest drain at 2 feet 
 diameter, that being- a practicable size to manufacture. Taking, then, ' 
 a perfectly flat area which is the worst case for calculation assum- 
 ing a total fall of 15 feet from the extreme points to the centre, upon an 
 area of half of a square mile, or 320 acres, this will give a current of 
 1 in 250 as a minimum, and a 2-feet drain, with that fall, will be 
 more than sufficient to discharge the whole refuse of the densest popu- 
 lation upon that extent of surface, with an improved constant supply 
 of water of 100 gallons per day per house. With such arragements, 
 there would have to be discharged from each division of half a square 
 mile nearly one million gallons per day ; but, as by far the largest 
 quantity is used in the busy lime, from nine to one o'clock, I calculate 
 a capacity sufficient to discharge the whole quantity in that time. 
 
 That is to say, the whole quantity of refuse matter from the houses. 
 What provision do you make for the external refuse of streets? It 
 would be essential that these drains should be capable of removing also 
 the whole external refuse of the streets and houses. I assume, there- 
 fore, that the system should be capable of accommodating a fall of rain 
 equal to an inch a-half in 12 hours, a good soaking quantity that would 
 soon cleanse the whole surface of the streets and houses, and convey 
 away the refuse. This amount, being added to the house supply of 
 water, the total quantity produced at such times in each division, would 
 be 200,000 cubic feet per hour. 
 
 Supposing the district to be perfectly flat, would you give the same 
 uniform inclination to the whole system of drainage from the extreme 
 points to the centre? No. The only question for consideratioa as to 
 fall, would be to fix a safe limit for the total inclination of those con- 
 tinuous lines of the drainage that would have to convey the water 
 from the extreme points to the centre. Having decided upon that, the 
 rate of inclination should be graduated from one end to the other ; 
 because the accelerated velocity of the stream, as it would approach the 
 centre outfall, would admit of considerably less inclination of the 
 drainage than at the commencement ; or, on the other hand, would 
 admit of a great reduction in the size of the pipes. All the collateral 
 or intermediate branch-drains, it will be seen, would have so consider- 
 able an amount of fall, as to afford the opportunity of putting them 
 all in of a very small size. 
 
286 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Will you illustrate the arrangement of the drainage of these proposed 
 divisions, and describe the means of accommodating" this quantity of 
 water? This diagram will hest serve to explain the method of 
 arrangement of drainage of each division, in which the progressive in- 
 crease of capacity of the drains, graduated from the outside of the 
 
 9-inch pipes. 
 
 9. inch pipes. 
 
 h. fifes 
 
 9-mc*h pipes. 
 
 9-inch pipes. 
 
 divisional area towards its point of discharge into the centre well, is 
 designated by tha gradual increase of thickness of the lines. Drain 
 pipes of 6 inches diameter would suffice for a great proportion of the 
 short lengths of courts and alleys ; but I should propose 9 inches diam- 
 eter as the minimum street drain at the commencement of the system, 
 and 24 inches at its outfall, which will discharge 12 times the quantity 
 of the 9 inches, without reckoning the accelerated velocity. From 
 these centre points or wells, to which each division would severally 
 drain, stone-ware pipes would lead to the pumping engines placed at 
 any most convenient spot, whereby the whole refuse of the district 
 would be withdrawn and discharged as fast as it would be produced. 
 
 Be so good as to explain more fully the construction of these centre 
 wells to which the drainage would converge? They would be of the 
 simplest character, as thisjketch will serve to show : 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Section of Centre Well 
 
 287 
 
 Surface 
 
 Ground. 
 
 As a' matter of safety, the wells should be sunk to such a depth below 
 the drains A, discharging 1 into them, as would allow of the settlement 
 of any small matters that might by possibility be conveyed into them. 
 Here they might rest without inconvenience, until periodically re- 
 moved. The pipe to the engine should lead off just above these 
 drains, to which the water would rise ; and the pipe should be pro- 
 vided, as in all such cases, with a screen, B, around the well, to prevent 
 the entrance of any solid substances. Another arrangement would be 
 to provide two wells with a sluice between them, so that the water 
 could be readily diverted from each, for the more ready inspection and 
 removal of solid matter. Higher up, the wells would be provided with 
 an overflow drain C, which, in case of accident to the engines or other 
 emergency, would convey the rising waters to the nearest reservoir or 
 outlet. The top of each of the wells would be domed over or other- 
 wise covered, and provided with a man-hole, or a side entrance for the 
 purpose of periodical inspection, and the removal of such small sub- 
 
28S 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 stances as the screen would have prevented passing to the pumps. I 
 describe these arrangements of the well as of a practicable character ; 
 but various other plans of a simple kind might answer equally well, 
 or pQSsibly be found superior on further consideration. 
 
 Would there be any chance of the accumulation of deposit in these 
 wells'? Not the slightest. The concentrated volume of water pouring 
 into them with great force, at certain periods of every day, would pre- 
 vent the possibility of deposit. Everything would be clean washed 
 away, but those matters that could not pass the screen. 
 
 Do you purpose to fix a steam-engine in every division of half a 
 square mile? No. The engines may be fixed in any spot most con- 
 venient and advisable, and there need be only one pumping establish- 
 ment for the whole district as is shown in the diversion plan to which 
 main pipes would lead from the several centre wells, precisely as 
 would be practised in raising so much water from a well at a distance. 
 From the engines, one or more discharge-pipes, to convey the whole 
 refuse, would lead to the most convenient outlet in the river, as shown 
 by the double dotted line. The arrangement here submitted would 
 offer this great advantage that the pollution of the whole southern bank 
 of the river would at once be avoided, as the liquid refuse could, with 
 equal facility, be discharged at any spot lower down the river, where 
 no inconvenience would arise from it. By-and bye, when the public 
 mind is brought to appreciate the value of this material, and to apply 
 it to its legitimate purpose, instead of throwing it away, there would 
 be nothing more required than to lay down the distributing-pipes from 
 the engines in the direction of the demand. The discharge pipe would 
 then serve its proper purpose of a waste-pipe into the river, when the 
 supply of the liquid exceeded the demand for it, or it would lead into 
 depositing reservoirs. 
 
 For the pumping of the refuse during ordinary rain you would have 
 to provide considerably greater power of engines than would be neces- 
 sary to employ during dry weather? Yes, that would be so ; and it is 
 a further illustration of the adaptation of the principles here described 
 to the perfection of the system hereafter. It is precisely this addi- 
 tional power that would come into operation hereafter for the applica- 
 tion of the refuse of the district to agricultural purposes. I calculate 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 289 
 
 that it would be necessary to provide four times the amount of steatn 
 power for the removal of the refuse during wet weather that would be 
 necessary on dry days, and this is the very amount that would probably 
 be necessary to raise the refuse the additional height required for its 
 application to agriculture. Thus, in wet weather, when there would 
 be no demand for the sewage manure, the whole power of the engines 
 would be employed in raising the greater quantity of liquid sufficiently 
 high only for its discharge from the district; and in dry weather the 
 full power would be engaged in raising the smaller quantity the addi- 
 tional height necessary for its intended application to agriculture. The 
 system would so work together very satisfactorily as a perfect whole. 
 
 The plan that you have described makes provision only for such 
 ordinary rain as you conceive to be sufficient to clear the streets of their 
 refuse. What is to become of heavy rain* and storm waters, and waste 
 water from steam-engines 1 In this respect the present sewers, or 
 rather that portion of them along the main lines, will be of service, 
 although, under proper arrangements, more adequate provision might 
 have been made for this purpose at infinitely less cost. Heavy rains 
 and storm waters would discharge into these reservoirs in a compara- 
 tively pure state, and so find their way to their proper outlet in the 
 river at low tide. Various arrangements for making the communica- 
 tion with these reservoirs may be adopted, of the most simple charac- 
 ter, determinate by local circumstances. One of the most obvious is 
 exhibited in these sketches : 
 
 Half cross-section of a Street, shewing arrangement of a gully-shoot and overflow drain for storm 
 
 water. 
 
290 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Half plan of a Street, 50 feet wide, showing proposed pipe drain at the side, instead of the centre, 
 
 and house-drains into it. 
 
 HOUSEDRAIN 
 
 In those streets where the main reservoirs occur, an overflow drain, A, 
 would be constructed into them from the gully shoots, B, so that at 
 such times of excessive rain, when the drains would be charged full, 
 the surplus waters flowing from the streets and houses would rise in 
 the shoots and discharge into the reservoir. In some cases, to avoid 
 flooding of the streets in particular spots in cases of severe storms, it 
 might be advisable to provide a surface drain from the street gully- 
 shoot into the nearest reservoir, as shown in these sketches. 
 
 Section across Street. 
 
 Section in a line with Street. 
 /'U cf- of "Vai'p'nwnP 
 
 Surface Drain/ 
 flvcds 
 
 The mouth of the gully-shoot into the street-drain below would then 
 be contracted, so as not to allow of their overcharge ; but this would 
 be a case rarely required, for damage scarcely ever occurs from the 
 flooding of the streets. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS* 291 
 
 Very considerable damage is said to have occurred in this district in 
 the storms of last year, by the flooding" of the houses from the sewers ; 
 would there be security in the plan here proposed against the recur- 
 rence of such an evil 1 There would be complete security against it. 
 The great mischief was in being flooded with sewer water, for the valves 
 at the outlets were closed by the tide when the storm occurred ; and 
 not only so, but the accumulated foul deposits of months before in these 
 reservoirs would, by the rush of water in such a storm, be stirred up 
 also, to add their poison to the flood. Now, by the plan proposed, all 
 sewer water would be removed as fast as it would be produced, and by 
 the fall obtained in every drain, deposit would be rendered impossible. 
 Should, therefore, flooding occur from an extraordinary storm, it would 
 simply be with storm water, leaving beyond the temporary incon- 
 venience, no evil effect behind. Even this would be possible only on 
 those rare occasions that do occur, for a brief hour, in intervals of seve- 
 ral yeai's, but which, under the new state of things, would be so harm- 
 less in their consequences, that we should not be warranted in incur- 
 ring the enormous expense necessary to guard against them. 
 
 Would the large reservoirs receiving the flood waters be kept free 
 from injurious deposit in this arrangement? I feel assured that they 
 would. It must be recollected that they would receive only the 
 waters after the streets had been thoroughly washed, and their refuse 
 conveyed away by the small drains; and under a proper and regulated 
 system of daily cleansing of the streets, this would be the more effect- 
 ually accomplished ; so that any small deposits that could take place 
 in the reservoirs, would at the utmost be the least proportion of sand or 
 silt borne down in the immense volumes of water during extraordinary 
 storms, from the Macadamized roads of the suburbs, which might be 
 precipitated when the outlets were closed, but which would be perfectly 
 harmless, as no foul emanations would arise from them. Moreover 
 they might readily be flushed away, if required. 
 
 In this half section of a street just exhibited, you show the proposed 
 drain on one side of the street next the houses, the reservoir being in 
 the centre. You would propose then } in such a case, a drain on each 
 side? Yes. In many cases, in wide streets, in a proper system of 
 drainage, I should prefer the drains on each side to one drain in the 
 centre, as being more economical and more efficient. This is a point 
 that has long been urged by Mr. Chad wick. The dotted lines on r the 
 sketch show that in a street of an average width of fifty feet, the whole 
 19 
 
292 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 length of the centre drain would be saved. I do not mean to say that 
 there wc,;lc be this amount of saving in expense, but it would in many 
 such cases be more economical, and there is the additional reason for it 
 in the ic stance shown, that the reservoir would occupy the centre of 
 the street. The objection will be urged against placing the drains in 
 the posit'ori shown 3 that they would so frequently interfere with cellars 
 under the pavement ; but in putting in small drains, as proposed, this 
 interference would be trifling, and certainly more than compensated by 
 the saving of digging from the surface, and all the annoyance of ob- 
 struction of traffic would be avoided besides. I do not put it forward as 
 a plan that could be universally adopted in all wide streets, or that in 
 most cases might be advisable ; but I believe that if the trammels of 
 the present routine custom could be broken through, and prejudices 
 set aside, that this arrangement, and many others, might be adopted 
 with advantage, and at all events should be fairly considered. 
 
 Would there not be constant danger of choking up, in the small 
 system of drains that you propose, from the numerous large substances 
 of all kinds that are now found in the sewers 1 Under proper regula- 
 tions, I am satisfied that no stoppage whatever would occur in any 
 case. It is true that large substances of various kinds broken china, 
 cinders, oyster-shells, vegetable refuse, brushes, rags, and a host of 
 other matters are constantly found in the sewers, being thrown, either 
 carelessly or mischievously, down the yard drain, into the sink, or 
 down the water-closet. It would be rather surprising if it were other- 
 wise, for not the slightest precaution is used to guard against it. No 
 immediate inconvenience results, and there is plenty of room and to 
 spare, we may be sure, when we hear from the City Surveyor of 
 Sewers, in bis evidence before the Health of Towns Commission, that 
 even coffins and tombstones, a bedstead, and the beadle of the parish 
 lie in them, to be detected only in general explorations. Under a 
 proper regulated system, how easily would these abuses be prevented. 
 Yard drains would not be left unprotected ; sink gratings would be 
 effectually secured ; surreptitious openings would be impossible; and 
 that form of water-closet basin which will admit of such an abuse, 
 either from the carelessness of servants or the mischief of children, would 
 be at once abolished. The common pan basin, as it is called, is subject 
 to this inconvenience, by reason of its direct communication ; but the 
 syphon trap basin, which is more efficient with a good supply of water, 
 and considerably cheaper, will not admit of the intrusion of such mat- 
 j as these sketches show. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 293 
 
 Section of 
 
 Water Closet Pan Basin, 
 showing direct communication. 
 
 Section of 
 
 Water Closet Syphon Basin, 
 showing curved communication. 
 
 But in a regulated system, with the house drain of proper construction, 
 and of sufficient size for its purpose, and no more, any substance that 
 could by possibility get into it, and pass through, would certainly 
 never choke the street drain, constructed in graduated proportion. 
 
 Do not many heavy substances find their way constantly into the 
 sewers through the gully-holes in the streets'? Yes, they do; but en- 
 tirely from the faulty construction of the street gratings. Mr. Phillips 1 
 under the Westminster Commission, has prevented much of the 
 evil by reducing the openings ; but these bring another incon- 
 venience they are apt to choke up. I think that a great improve- 
 ment would be effected by this form of grating, in which I would 
 make the bars as wide, or even wider, apart than they now are, but 
 
 Plan of Street Grating. 
 
 pq Section on AA. 
 
 Section on BB. 
 
 U U U U U 
 
 affix underneath them at right angles a row of thin rod iron, or narrow 
 square iron. The bars should be considerably beveled, that is, dimin- 
 ished in thickness from the surface downwards ; and thus, while the 
 mud would have no surface upon which it could cake and clog the 
 openings, all large matters, pieces of stick, oyster shells, or other long 
 
294 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 and flat substances, which can pass through all the present forms of 
 street gratings, would be effectually stopped. Various other arrange- 
 ments, however, might probably be adopted, with advantage, to effect 
 this desirable object. 
 
 In the event of a stoppage, such a system of drains would still be 
 accessible, would it not, for the purpose of removing any obstruction, 
 without the drains being so large as for men to get into them? Yes, 
 certainly. Communications may be made by side entrances so as to 
 introduce apparatus for cleansing; but I feel so satisfied that, with ordi- 
 nary precaution, it would never be required, that the provision should, 
 at all events, be deferred until experience proved its necessity. 
 
 The disgusting practice of cleansing the sewers by hand labor and 
 cartage would be entirely obviated ? Entirely. And, according to 
 the statements in evidence as to the cost of this practice, the saving 
 would go half way towards the whole expense of engine power, and 
 pumping for the entire populous part of the district marked on the 
 skeleton plan. 
 
 You are aware that a very large proportion of the houses of the 
 metropolis are provided only with cesspools, more particularly in these 
 flat districts, which do not communicate with the sewers. Do you feel 
 confidence that when complete house drainage is established, and all 
 this solid matter of the cesspools is added to the sewage water, that it 
 could be pumped without difficulty'? I have no doubt of it at all ; and 
 I think that a very few words will remove all apprehension on this 
 head. It is true that the contents of cesspools present a solid and 
 compact appearance rather formidable to pump, but the fact is that the 
 liquid portion percolates the substratum, and leaves only the solid 
 refuse. It is questionable whether, in a perfect and impermeable sys- 
 tem of house drainage, which would convey alike the whole liquid 
 and solid refuse from our habitations, the proportion of solid matter in 
 the sewers would be mateiially increased, beyond what it now is in the 
 populous parts of the metropolis. In a sewer having numerous courts 
 and alleys on each side, Mr. Roe found, at the upper end, 1 solid in 
 ninety-six liquid; and at the lower end one solid in thirty-nine liquid. 
 In other sewers, where the run' of water is always sufficient to keep them 
 free from deposit, the proportion was one in sixty-five to one in eighty. 
 Now, Liebig informs us that the solid feeces per individual per day 
 amount only to Jib. to Ijlb. of liquid, and if we add any conceivable 
 quantity of solid matter that daily finds its way through kitchen sinks, 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 295 
 
 area drains, or other outlets from the house, it cannot go far beyond 
 another pound per individual. The quantity of water daily discharged 
 from each house is about 12 gallons for each person, to which, in its 
 relation as to weight, the solid discharge would be, at the utmost, 1 in 
 100, so that it would appear that, with an impermeable system of 
 drainage, the proportion of solid matter to the liquid would not be in- 
 creased beyond the present quantity by the addition of those houses 
 which have no communication with the sewers. Many houses, how- 
 ever, have a house drainage for liquid refuse, and still have cesspools, 
 but, from the faulty construction of the drains, much of the water, 
 even where this is so, permeates the soil and never reaches the sewer. 
 Were the cesspools alone to be added, being converted into water- 
 closets, if Liebig be at all correct, it would add but little to the propor- 
 tion of the whole, being a quarter of a pound solid to 10 or 121bs. at 
 least of liquid. In any case, even if the proportion of solid refuse to 
 the liquid of a house were many times greater than it is, pumping 
 would be clearly practicable, for proportions three or four times as 
 great, have for years been actually conveyed. Indeed, a proportion 
 of 1 solid in only 5 or 6 of liquid has been successfully accomplished 
 in pumping. It may be safely asserted, therefore, that when the ade- 
 quate and improved supply of water that is so desirable, is obtained, the 
 proportions of liquid to the solid, as a question of pumping, will be 
 five or six times greater than what is now in successful operation, and 
 15 -or 20 times greater than an extreme case. 
 
 Have you calculated the cost of this improved system of drainage? 
 I have. It will not amount to more than one-fourth of the system 
 now pursued in the Surrey and Kent district. This Commission has 
 recently given notice of the intended execution of works, involving an 
 outlay of .100,000, to be expended in a few main lines of drainage, 
 which, for the real and important purposes of sewerage the removal 
 of the liquid refuse from the houses will be of no earthly benefit to 
 the inhabitants, but will serve only to obstruct future improvement; 
 whereas the outlay of this amount, on the plan proposed, would actu- 
 ally suffice for the construction of the entire street drainage, including 
 every court and alley, of more than one-half of the most populous part 
 of the district comprised within an area of four square miles immedi- 
 ately south of the river. The perfect drainage of the most crowded 
 district, on this system, would cost, on the average, j2 per house, with 
 an annual charge of 2s. per house, for annual expense of engine 
 
296 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE . THE 
 
 power. To repay in 30 years, with interest, the whole cost of the pub- 
 lic or street drainage, together with complete privaleor house drainnge, 
 with stone-ware water-closet basin, and including the above annual 
 charge for engine power, would involve a rate of 7s. per annum or 
 about a third of the annual cost of emptying a cesspool, where at all 
 decently kepi. 
 
 A detailed estimate would, of course, be a work of much time and 
 labor, but have you been able to go into the calculation of the cost of 
 the works of the proposed .system in sufficient detail to enable you to 
 determine, approximately, the outlay necessary in any particular por- 
 tion of this area ? I have no plan of any portion of the Surrey and 
 Kent district to a sufficient scale to do this with accuracy and satisfac- 
 tion ; but having a survey, which I made a few years ago, to a large 
 scale, of the low part of Westminster a district of precisely similar 
 situation I have made an estimate of a. complete system of sewerage 
 on this plan for that important district. Every court and open space is 
 exhibited on this plan, and having had the levels taken, I have been 
 enabled to arrive at a very close approximation to the actual cost of 
 the works in such a district. In working it out, the fullest prices have 
 been allowed for every item of the account that may be fairly expected 
 under combined and improved arrangements. The division referred to, 
 is bounded by the Bird Cage Walk on the north, Vauxhall Bridge-road 
 on the south, Buckingham Palace gardens on the west, and the river 
 on the east, and includes the drainage also of Whitehall and the Gov- 
 ernment offices. It consists of an area of 353 acres. The result of 
 the estimate shows, in round numbers, that the complete street and 
 court drainage of the whole of this district may be accomplished, with 
 the provision of engine power, for a sum little exceeding .25,000. 
 This estimate proves also, what has just been stated, as the result of a 
 more general calculation, that in the crowded districts 2 per house 
 would, by this system, be the actual outlay for perfect external drain- 
 age, that being the proportion of the densely populated part of the 
 district. The total length of drainage, including every court and alley, 
 is about 100,000 feet, three-fourths of which, in consequence of the 
 considerable fall that the system affords in all the collateral lines, 
 would be an average size of 9 inches diameter, and one-fourth, 18 
 inches diameter; and the result proves that, as a general rule, the total 
 cost of this system of drainage may be stated 'at 5s. per foot run. We 
 cannot possibly expect an efficient drainage at a less cost ; can it be 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 297 
 
 realized in any other way for so little 1 This may be fairly taken as 
 the approximate expense of an equal area of a similar portion of the 
 Surrey and Kent district; or if put down for each proposed division 
 of half a square mile, or 320 acres, it leaves an allowance of 10 per 
 cent, extra for contingencies. The whole facts apply, however, with 
 equal force to this very district of Westminster, where there is an equal 
 deficiency of drainage, and where, from its somewhat similar position, 
 there is the same impossibility of perfect drainage without the employ- 
 ment of power for the constant removal of the refuse. Whatever 
 expense may be incurred in mitigation of the evils, on the present sys- 
 tem, it can only be a mitigation of them ; they must still exist. Some 
 trifle may be added to the fall of the sewers ; the cesspool may be made 
 a little deeper, but it must still be a cesspool from which the same foul 
 gases will evolve and rise as now. 
 
 You have given it as your opinion that a perfect drainage of the dis- 
 tricts below high-water mark cannot be effected without the application 
 of power. Will you state generally what other advantages you con- 
 sider would be derived from the adoption of the system or arrangement 
 here proposed for that purpose? A system of this kind appears not 
 only to give to a flat district all the advantages for drainage now attain- 
 able only in the rising or sloping parts of the town, but provides a 
 facility and economy of execution of much importance, not otherwise 
 attainable even in the most favored localities, as I shall endeavor to ex- 
 plain. 
 
 1st. All observation and inquiry adds only evidence of the fact that 
 the great point to be desired for perfect drainage is a good fall. With 
 this one advantage at command all difficulty ceases. Drainage then 
 becomes alike economical and easy. In the ordinary system of drain- 
 ing towns to the natural outfalls, however well situated a district may 
 be in its general disposition in the great requisite of inclination, the 
 difficulty will still occur, in many of the collateral lines, of procuring 
 sufficient current in the sewers to keep them clear of deposit. A good 
 fall in the sewers will keep them perfectly clean with the smallest pos- 
 sible quantity of water, while many times that quantity will fail to 
 accomplish this end without the advantage of a tolerable current. 
 Hence the necessity of systematic and frequent flushing even in the 
 most favored districts. The importance of this point cannot be too 
 much insisted upon. However perfect flushing arrangements may be, it 
 it is but a periodic and partial relief. From the moment that the sewer 
 
298 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 is so cleared, deposit again goes on, giving forth, at each moment, its 
 noxious miasma. The poison is still engendered between the intervals 
 of flushing, unless the current of the sewers be sufficient, to keep them 
 constantly clear at all moments. Now, with the subdivisions of area 
 here explained, forming, as it were, distinct basins, with their drainage 
 converging to a centre point of each, the work may be so laid out as to 
 procure any desirable amount of inclination under the most difficult 
 circumstances that can occur, and thus the object of primary import- 
 ance, the avoidance of deposit, effectually secured. At a vast saving 
 of expenses, the pollution 'of rivers and the poisoning of the air, by the 
 emanations from the sewers, would be alike avoided, and the formation 
 of noxious gas would be impossible. Although I desire here to lay the 
 greatest stress on the superiority of this method of drainage in low and 
 flat districts, where no improvement of the present system can be ren- 
 dered adequate, still I cannot help believing that the advantages it 
 would offer, would make its adoption desirable also in many other 
 localities. 
 
 2d. The comparative advantages of a general pipe system of drain- 
 age over constructions of brick, for the conveyance of refuse in towns, 
 would be immense. Now 3 the ordinary plan of sewerage will admit 
 only of a partial use of these for street drainage, even in the most 
 favored districts, and to that extent will be imperfect. Now the con- 
 verging system will admit of their universal application to every part 
 of the ramifications of the drainage from the watershed to the outfall, 
 requiring only a construction of brick or -other material in the valley 
 lines for the conveyance of the natural streams and flood-waters. 
 
 3d. The more extended and general adoption of the plan will be 
 the more strikingly important also, when arrangements shall come, to 
 be considered for the great question of the application of the refuse to 
 agriculture, for then the works established for the improvement of the 
 drainage of the town will be founcl so much on the way towards the 
 desired application of it. 
 
 4th. The small and independent action of the drainage areas would 
 afford the greatest facility of execution and management, and founded 
 on correct calculations, would offer the best guarantee of efficiency of 
 action, avoiding the uncertainties and disputed questions which now 
 arise as to the drainage and outfalls of extensive areas. In the 
 event of such a system being entertained, it is capable, moreover, of 
 immediate application and trial on the smallest desirable scale. It is 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 299 
 
 alike applicable to a village and a metropolis, the one being only a 
 multiplication of the other, involving no risk of enormous works over 
 extended areas, proving, in the end, unsuccessful. 
 
 After long and anxious consideration of the subject, the attainment 
 of these advantages appears to me to comprehend all that can be de- 
 sired in the most perfect system of town drainage ; but in offering this 
 plan to the notice of the Commissioners, I must beg to add that I do so 
 with the desire only of having it submitted to the fullest and most im- 
 partial inquiry that can possibly be obtained, and its advantages or dis- 
 advantages fairly brought to light. I hold it to be most essential, in a 
 matter of such vast importance to the public welfare, that the opinions 
 of no one man should be advanced or adopted without the most rigid 
 tests and scrutiny. I am far from desirous to thrust forward my own 
 views in opposition to others, but submit them in the hope that good 
 may result from proper investigation of the facts by unprejudiced and 
 competent authorities. The only opinion that I desire to urge strongly, 
 and with confidence, is, that going on with the present system is going 
 on with waste and inefficiency of no ordinary kind, and every day's 
 delay in arresting its progress adds only so much more work to be re- 
 constructed at a future and early period. 
 
 What size of house drain do you consider would be generally suffi- 
 cient 7 I feel satisfied, from long consideration of the facts, and prac- 
 tical observation, that there are very few cases in which a 4-inch drain 
 would not suffice, and if the practical men who contend for 9, 12, or 
 15-inch drains to houses, would only reason upon the subject for a 
 moment, I am convinced that they must see the error of their practice. 
 A 4-inch pipe, with an inclination of 1 inch in 10 feet, will discharge 
 about 14 cubic feet of water per minute ; now, an extraordinary fall of 
 rain of 2 inches in an hour will not produce above a-fourth of this 
 quantity on the space occupied by an average sized house and yard . 
 But it is argued, that there must be great additional space in the drains 
 to allow for obstructions, when, should deposit accumulate, there would 
 still be some room left for the passage of the water ; but if any deposit 
 take place in the small drain, it is immediately choked. Compare the 
 two cases : A heavy substance gets into a 12-inch drain . The water 
 from the house being diffused over so broad a bottom, has no power to 
 move it, but a heavy shower may probably send it along some 20 or 
 30 feet, until it meets with an obstructing inequality. There it stops, 
 a dam for the accumulation of all the soil, grease, and minor sub- 
 
300 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 stances that, from day to day, are poured into the drain. This accu- 
 mulation indurates and lengthens, until at last the water forms itself a 
 small sinuous passage through the softest part. A heavy substance 
 gets into a 4-inch drain, and a great power of water is every day con- 
 centrated upon it ; hut if this, hy any possibility, should riot be suffi- 
 cient to send it forward, the first shower of rain will fill the drain, and 
 accumulate a pressure of such a considerable column of water from the 
 external openings of yard drain and rain-water pipe of the house or 
 outbuildings, that no temporary obstruction can, for a moment, resist. 
 There would be the same pressure of water in such a case against an 
 accumulated obstruction in a 12-inch drain, would there not] Yes; 
 there would, when the drain was so far choked as not to allow of the 
 passage of the water; but by the time this had arrived, a great length 
 of indurated deposit could have accumulated probably nearly the 
 whole length of the house-drain which no such power of water could 
 remove. The consequence would be, that each extra rush of water, 
 instead of clearing the drain, would, by degrees, effectually block up 
 the remaining small opening, by heaping up, time after time, the 
 nearest portion of the deposit on to that beyond. I have attempted, 
 in this sketch, to show the effect that must, in such cases, occur : 
 
 Section of 9-inch barrel drain choked up. 
 
 Proposed substitute 4-inch pipe drain. 
 
 Even if it did clear itself, in such a case the absurdity is sufficiently 
 striking, of providing a drain of such a size that it must, first of all, 
 get choked before it can clear itself. There i 1 ? another most important 
 point with regard to small drains that is overlooked. Granting, for a 
 moment, that the sectional capacity of a 4-inch drain is not equal to 
 that of the waters that may flow into it from all the openings sinks, 
 area, water-closets, and rain-water pipes of such a large house as this 
 (Gwydyr House); there would be a pressure of a column of water in 
 the 4-inch drain, wHen flowing full as it might in heavy storms that 
 would, from the increased velocity, render it more than equal for the 
 time to the 9-inch drain as at present put in. I am fully prepared 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 301 
 
 therefore, to contend, that there is scarcely a private house in this 
 metropolis for which a 4-inch drain would not be sufficient, if correctly 
 put in, and with all the junctions thereto securely made, with proper 
 curves. We see that nature throughout, in its rivers and streams, 
 meets its own exigencies in similar ways, but it is only seen to be dis- 
 regarded. The fact is, that as 12-inch drains get constantly choked, it 
 is hence inferred, that they are too small, rather than too large. I am 
 asked by one who should know better, u How can a 4-inch drain be 
 sufficient when I have a 12-inch in ray house, and yet I am constantly 
 flooded even with that ?" and I can only answer, " that it is precisely 
 because you have a 12-inch drain which is improperly constructed and 
 nine times too large, that you are constantly flooded." A great horror 
 of cesspools is constantly expressed, and yet the whole present work 
 of house-drainage is a system of nothing else. It is only a differ- 
 ence of form and situation, and it is questionable, sometimes, which 
 is the less mischievous. The condemned cesspool is broad and deep, 
 and outside the house ; the favored one is. long and narrow, and sends 
 its noxious vapors directly inside. I am afraid that I have said more 
 upon this point than it would appear at first sight to warrant ; but I 
 feel that it is a much more important branch of the subject than is 
 generally supposed. Defective, and erroneous in principle, as the street 
 sewers are, I believe that they have often to bear a blame that is, for 
 the most part, due to the house-drain. Correct views are quite as es- 
 sential in the one case as in the other. 
 
 It is stated by the surveyors to the Surrey and Kent Commission of 
 Sewers, that they should only prefer glazed pipes to the ordinary brick 
 sewers and drains, on account of the expense. The plan you have 
 explained provides a complete system of pipe-drains for the whole of 
 the streets as well as the houses. What do you believe to be the com- 
 parative advantages of the two materials? I believe that a very con- 
 siderable part of the question of a perfect system of drainage of towns 
 lies in this consideration, and that any attempt to found a general ar- 
 rangement in constructions of brick, will retain many of the present 
 errors. The glazed pipes are to be preferred in every point of view. 
 
 1st. From their even and glassy surface, there is a great reduction 
 of friction, and consequent increase of the flow with the same quanti- 
 ties of water, which admits of their size being materially reduced. 
 
 2d. With equal inclinations they will keep themselves clearer of de- 
 posit, and consequently be free from the present offensive effluvia of 
 
302 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 the brick sewers and drains ; and being perfectly impermeable, all 
 soakage of the neighboring ground is prevented, and foul emanations 
 from this source obviated. They prevent, moreover, the soakage of 
 the material of the sewer, from which much effluvia now arises, even 
 where deposits are avoided ; the bricks, becoming perfectly saturated 
 with the foul liquid, are constantly giving off offensive smell. The 
 drains of stone-ware would prevent also the entrance of gas, that con- 
 stantly escapes from the neighboring gas-pipes, and is now often the 
 source of great annoyance. 
 
 3d. They would forbid the harboring of rats within them, and no 
 longer form the channel for the entrance of these disgusting vermin 
 into our houses. The glassy surface of the tubes would deprive these 
 animals alike of foothold and of food. 
 
 4th. The tube drains afford great facilities for execution, and im- 
 provement in arrangement, from the fact that any amount of inclina- 
 tion may be given to them that may be desirable, without the slightest 
 danger to the material, while the bottom of the brick sewer is often 
 found worn away by the friction of the stream, where any thing ap- 
 proaching to a considerable fall is adopted. 
 
 5th. Glazed pipes would be much more quickly and economically 
 laid than brick drains, and would afford great security against much 
 of the defective and careless construclion which now characterizes 
 drainage works. It has only to be considered for a moment, how these 
 drains are now frequently constructed, to show the importance of this 
 point in forming drains to houses already constructed. A small tunnel 
 is driven through from the house to the sewer in the street, in which 
 the bricklayer works. The man is naturally anxious to get out as soon 
 as possible, and as no mortal eye, but his, ever sees the work, so long 
 as some sort of opening is left, he is content. The bricks of the chief 
 part of the drain are imbedded in earth instead of mortar, and instances 
 have occurred, where thin boards have been left for a covering, which 
 have given way, and caused the stoppage of drains in a few months 
 after their construction. With the glazed pipes this would be impossi- 
 ble, being most simple in construction, and laid in lengths, there would , 
 be but few joints to make ; and if the level were properly set out, the 
 work could scarcely fail to be perfect. 
 
 6th. The pipes would require much less excavation, both from 
 diminished size, and less thickness of material ; and they could be laid 
 in loose and treacherous soil, where brick-work would fail without great 
 precaution and expense . 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 303 
 
 7tli. They would afford the advantage of giving- considerably greater 
 fall in the case of house drains, which is very frequently a point of 
 great importance. Take an instance, where a sewer in the street is 
 necessarily at such a shallow depth that a brick drain to a basement 
 can be laid only level without any fall, and suppose the length of the 
 drain to be 50 feet. The glazed pipe could be laid, under the same 
 circumstances, at an adequate inclination, of upwards of an inch and 
 a half in 10 feet, even if it were to be of the same capacity ; but if of 
 4 inches diameter, instead of the present minimum of 9 inches, it could 
 be laid at a current of more than 2J inches in 10 feet, being more than 
 double what is now considered sufficient, as explained by these dia- 
 grams : 
 
 Diagram, showing 9-inch barrel drain laid level, the dotted lines showing inclination of 9-inch tube 
 
 drain. 
 
 M. 
 
 sl 
 
 50-0 
 
 Diagram, showing 9-inch barrel drain laid level, the dotted lines showing inclination of 4-inch tnbe 
 
 drain. 
 
 50-0 
 
 8th. The pipe-drains would never want repair, and thus the only 
 semblance of a reason for building sewers large enough for men to 
 enter them would \anish. They would be, in fact, of everlasting du- 
 rability. The drain pipes of ancient Rome are, at the present day, 
 perfect, although of far inferior material to the vitrified glazed stone- 
 ware now manufactured in this country. At the ruins of Trajan's 
 baths, near Civita Vecchia, I recently examined some of these pipes, 
 which are still perfect. 
 
 9th. They would not only be far less expensive, but they would be, 
 what brick drains never can be, perfect efficiency. 
 
 Is there a single point in which the brick drain can be said to be 
 superior or even equal to the stone-ware pipe 1 Not one ; and I believe, 
 that the time will come when every house-drain of brick, now existing, 
 will be removed, when the importance of proper drainage shall be 
 thoroughly appreciatad. It would frequently be a great economy in 
 
304 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 mere money to do so. The drains of a house now, almost as ;i matter 
 f course, have to be periodically broken into to be cleared of deposit. 
 There is a perpetual expense attending- them, which wouli never 
 occur with a proper pipe drainage, and the foul emanations from them 
 are so constant that the olfactory nerves of town experience become, to 
 a great extent, insensible to their presence. It is quite impossible that 
 these brick drains can affect their intended object. If the utmost in- 
 genuity had been exercised to ascertain in what manner bricks could 
 be laid to effect the object of a seive in letting off the liquid 
 and retaining the solid portion of what passes into it, nothing better 
 could have been devised . Perfection never can be attained until these 
 brick house-drains are removed, and I believe it to be one of the great- 
 est advantages of the converging plan of drainage proposed, that the 
 whole system may be so reduced in size as to abolish altogether the use 
 of brickworks even in the sewers. 
 
 There must still be brick sewers for the upland and flood waters in 
 the connecting and main valley lines, must there not 1 Yes ; that is 
 to say, that there must be a capacity that could not be accommodated 
 by pipe drains ; but when the difficulties are considered under which 
 sewers are frequently constructed ; the water that has to be contended 
 with during execution; the shifting treacherous soil in which they are 
 too often laid ; when it is known that the least inequality of work 
 forms a constant impediment to the stream, the friction against which 
 either endangers the ultimate stability of the work, or assists in the for- 
 mation of deposit ; when it is seen how incompatible to the arched 
 form of a properly shaped sewer is the common brick, I feel that it is 
 not the right form or size of material for these constructions; and it 
 is to be hoped that much attention may be devoted to the manufacture 
 of a form of material more suitable to the object, and that means may 
 be acquired of glazing its interior surface. 
 
 You consider that the same argument with respect to the erroneous 
 size of the house-drains holds good also with respect to the public 
 sewers'? Precisely the same. House-drains are made of extra size to 
 prevent obstruction, and it is the very cause of obstruction. The 
 sewers however small they may be actually required are built large 
 enough for men to go into them to clear away the deposit, and that 
 very circumstance is the cause of deposit. 
 
 You do not. think it necessary that men should go into the sewers'? 
 No more than that climbing boys should go into the chimneys, and I 
 believe it to be an equally barbarous and cruel custom. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 305 
 
 It is your opinion then that the whole system of sewerage, as at pre- 
 sent laid down, is far larger and more costly than necessary'? De- 
 cidedly. Were it not obvious to those who have well considered the 
 subject, it might appear presumption in me to say so, but I believe 
 that the practice in every district, without exception, is most erroneous 
 in this respect, and that in the smaller class of sewers they are generally 
 ten or twelve times the size that there is any necessity for. " 
 
 Do you think that the assumed necessity for sending men into the 
 sewers is the chief cause of this erroneous size? No. I am inclined 
 to think that this is a modern idea, mere justification of the practice. 
 I believe that the great errors that are committed in the sizes of sewers 
 have originated in a total misconception of what is required for storm 
 waters, unless it can be conceived that no thought at all has been be- 
 stowed upon the subject. 
 
 You are acquainted with the formulae and rules laid down for calcu- 
 lation of the sizes of sewers and pipes in works on hydraulics ? Yes, 
 I am. 
 
 What appears to be the result of their application to practice? The 
 science of hydraulics has ' been a matter of study and interest to the 
 philosopher and mathematician of nearly every age and country. Most 
 elaborate works have been written on the subject, but ingenious as the 
 theories may be that have been established, and the rules deduced 
 therefrom, the conviction is forced upon me, after no little attention to 
 the facts, that their application to practice, in the construction of works 
 of drainage, almost invariably leads to error. 
 
 Is this evident in practice? It is. The assertion may appear ex- 
 travagant, but I shall hope to make it evident nevertheless. The fact 
 is that even up to the present moment we have no real data upon 
 which formulae can with safety be established for application to prac- 
 tice. Mathematicians have, for the most part, founded their calcula- 
 tions on partial experiments, frequently carried out on the smallest 
 scale, in which the most important elements have been really over- 
 looked, and the results arrived at strangely at variance with fact. I 
 should be very cautious in -passing judgment upon the works of these 
 eminent men ; but their calculations almost invariably lead to different 
 results, some to a very great extent. It follows that elements in the 
 calculations have been neglected or variously estimated, or that the 
 formulae deduced from them are not similarly applicable, although 
 similarly expressed. The rules get applied, however, indiscriminately 
 in practice, and much error is the consequence. 
 
306 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 There are certain rules laid down, are there not, universally admitted 
 to be true, upon which calculations may be founded 1 Yes, there are; 
 but I think it will soon be seen that these rules are correct only under 
 certain circumstances, and within certain limits, and therefore are not 
 generally applicable, with safety, to the case in point. Without 
 troubling the Commissioners with calculations and formula?, the state- 
 ment of a few simple facts will, I believe, render this evident. 
 
 1st. The velocity of a stream is generally stated to be simply as the 
 the square root of the mean hydraulic depth ; that is, the sectional 
 area divided by the frictional surface in contact with the stream. The 
 element of gravity is frequently neglected, its ratio of effect being un- 
 determined, although in the larger streams it influences the results to 
 a very considerable extent. 
 
 2nd. The length of frictional surface itself is taken the same, what- 
 ever may be the section of the stream, whereas the form and ratio of 
 length of bed to the sides, and the depth of the stream, will materially 
 vary the effect to what extent is yet undetermined. 
 
 3rd. It is stated as an established truth, under all circumstances, that 
 the velocity of a stream is greatest at the surface, and least at the 
 bottom ; but it is evident that this can only be so within certain limits, 
 where the effect of friction overcomes that of gravity. Beyond this 
 limit the highest velocity is found at a point below the surface, varying 
 with the depth of the stream. The relative position of this point is 
 yet undetermined, although in large bodies of water it will materially 
 affect the calculation for ascertaining the mean velocity. 
 
 4th. It is indiscriminately stated, also, that the centre of a full pipe 
 is the point of greatest velocity ; but it is evident that this can be true 
 only with a vertical pipe. Placed horizontally, the point of greatest 
 velocity will be nearer the top surface, the friction diminishing from 
 the bottom to the upper side, and the point varying with the depth or 
 diameter of the pipe. 
 
 5th. The faster water flows in pipes, the less it presses against the 
 sides : but in what ratio, is also undetermined. 
 
 These and other points, of which we have no certain information, 
 would have most material influence on the results. With respect to 
 friction, that most important and ever-varying item, we indeed know 
 little or nothing. Nevertheless rules are laid down and tables formed, 
 exhibiting the sizes of sewers for the discharge of certain quantities of 
 water, which are indiscriminately applied in practice. Let us look at 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 370 
 
 the result. Suppose that it is required to know the sectional capacity 
 of a main outfall sewer to drain a large district. The table is consulted ; 
 a certain size found and adopted. If the quantity of water required to 
 be conveyed had to be discharged from a reservoir kept at one height, 
 the size there named might be correct for the commencement of the 
 sewer. In the case in point, however, there will not only be the sum 
 of the velocities of the various tributary streams brought to bear in 
 the united volume of water, which is not allowed for, but there will 
 likewise be the accelerated velocity of the main stream itself. Should 
 the main sewer, from the commencement to the outfall, be of con- 
 siderable length, with a fall more than adequate to the resistance of 
 friction, the accumulated velocity would either allow of a gradual cor- 
 responding diminution of the capacity of the sewer, or would be ade- 
 quate to the discharge of so much additional water, and would conse- 
 quently be capable of draining so much the greater area than that 
 named in the table. Practice proves this to be the case, and yet these 
 tables are blindly put forward, as guides to the public, without a 
 word of instruction or explanation, and are as blindly followed. I 
 should be very sorry to depreciate the value of the researches into this 
 subject, but I think it extremely important that the erroneous impres- 
 sion should be removed that proper rules have been established for our 
 guidance. Not long since, after exhausting the alphabet in formulae, 
 I considered that I had a tolerable knowledge of the subject ; but fur- 
 ther attention to it, in its practical bearing, has only convinced me of 
 the little that I do know, and that to this day no fixed data ex t upon 
 which calculations for the capacity of sewers, for drainage purposes, 
 under the usual circumstances of practice, can with safety be estab- 
 lished. It seems extraordinary that this great question, the determina- 
 tion of which involves widely extended arid expensive research, should, 
 for aos, have been left to the private resources of philosophers and 
 mathematicians, not renowned at any time for their amount of wealth, 
 and that from generation to generation they should have been allowed 
 to sacrifice years of labor, arriving only at partial and imperfect results, 
 for want of aid and encouragement. It would appear to be one of the 
 most important features in the establishment of a Central Board, that 
 they would have the power and opportunity of directing the fullest 
 trials and observations, and collecting and arranging facts for the basis 
 of correct views and calculations. Under such an authority, with the 
 assistance of the first talent ? serial experiments might be carried on, 
 
 20 ^ ^ 
 
 '' 
 
308 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 with great advantage, at the Royal Engineers' establishment, or at 
 the Putney College, where, being brought daily under the observation 
 of the students, a new school of engineers would thus be forming, the 
 best calculated to put the established views into practice, which had 
 been there imbibed in the course of education. It would be a false 
 economy that would deny ample funds for such a work a drop in the 
 ocean of national outlay, that would be returned a thousand fold in 
 economy of practical results. Millions erroneously squandered in in- 
 efficient works would have been saved in this country alone, had such 
 a responsible authority been long since established ; and the annual 
 sacrifice of life which we have now to deplore, as a result of inefficiency, 
 loudly calls for the immediate stoppage of this ignorant waste. 
 
 Supposing that there were sound and sufficient data for correctly de- 
 termining the size of sewers for the discharge of certain quantities of 
 water under the varying circumstances required, do you consider 
 the practice of constructing all the sewers of sufficient size to convey 
 the waters of the greatest known storms to be correct? Decidedly not. 
 The practice is most erroneous, and has tended to bring about the most 
 unscientific treatment of the subject that of an equalized system of 
 sewerage in the place of a good graduated system. Nature points out to 
 us, in all directions, that it is perfectly unnecessary. Every unsewered 
 town of the kingdom is an illustration of the fact, that the provision of 
 capacity of sewers, throughout the system, sufficient for the waters of 
 extraordinary storms is a great error. This provision should be made 
 only in the main natural valley and connecting lines, to which the 
 waters immediately descend, and where the accumulation calls for an 
 ample passage. In the higher portion of a district, even in the total 
 absence of sewers, storm waters flow of! immediately, and do no 
 injury; while the provision of enormous size of sewers, for an 
 event which happens only for a brief space in an interval of years, 
 renders them unfit for their daily and constant purpose. But it is 
 thought to be far grander to adopt a fine large sewer throughout. 
 There has always existed a feeling of admiration for enormous sewers, 
 originating, no doubt, in the just praise awarded to the Cloaca Maxima of 
 the Romans, but unfortunately without reference to the requirements of 
 that great work. 
 
 The Cloaca Maxima was the terminating line of a system of gradu- 
 ated sewerage so extended, that according to Pliny and Strabo, the city 
 was, as it were, built in the air, and it daily conveyed along 1 its channel 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 309 
 
 the floods of water poured into the imperial city by its ten anueducts 
 a supply six times greater than the whole amount now furnished to 
 this metropolis. It is recorded that, on the completion of this great 
 work, so proud was Tarquinius of the achievement, that fie rode 
 through it in his chariot in procession. Of course this took place before 
 it was devoted to its purpose. Were it not for the accumulation of de- 
 posit, Commissioners of Sewers might march in procession through the 
 majority of their works after they are devoted to their purpose. In 
 some, even of the first class sewers, in which many a Commissioner 
 could stand upright, the ordinary flow of water which the sewers are 
 constructed to convey would scarcely reach their ankles. The present 
 condition of the Cloaca Maxima should be a serviceable lesson . Although 
 to be admired for its solidity and capacity, its form was erroneous, arid 
 having no longer to bear along its course the flood of water to which it 
 was then no more than adequate, deposit has gone on until it is now 
 very much in the condition of too many of our own wretched sewers 
 and drains nearly choked up to the crown with deposit of filth, per- 
 petually sending forth its bubbles of pestilential gas, and poisoning the 
 neighborhood. The supply of water that still exists in Rome and it 
 is now twelve times greater per inhabitant than what is given to this 
 metropolis unfortunately serves little useful purpose, for being sup- 
 plied only externally, the merest fraction is devoted to domestic and 
 cleansing purposes. The bulk of it plays its part at the beautiful 
 fountains, then runs to waste ; and the drainage being deficient 
 promotes only dampness and decay. Thus do these great works of 
 drainage and water supply once the chief sources of health and com- 
 fort to a prosperous and powerful people now spread disease and death 
 around them. The stranger, when beholding those mighty ruins and 
 sparkling waters, is too much engrossed in admiration to heed the 
 danger that lurks within them, or to see the consequence, of neglect or 
 inefficiency of works. Were it not so, surely more than one classical 
 Commissioner of Sewers would have produced something more worthy 
 of the lesson that he would there have learned. With respect to Rome 
 itself, let us hope that the enlightened views of Pope Pius, already 
 anxiously impressed as he is with the importance of the subject, will 
 soon lead him to apply the easy remedy, and restore these great works 
 to their legitimate and all important purposes. 
 
 You are well acquainted with the different forms of sewers in use in 
 the several metropolitan .districts. Have you considered what form 
 
310 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 would be generally preferable 7 Yes; I have given much attention to 
 this subject for a long- time. The flat bottomed sewer having finally 
 given way to the pressure from without, the sewer next in degree of 
 error is certainly the upright sided form of the Surrey and Kent and 
 Tower Hamlets Commissions. It is opposed to every correct engineer- 
 ing principle. In no one respect is it to be preferred to the circle, and 
 in most to be condemned. It is comparatively weak, costly, and inef- 
 ficient. Its very appearance is disagreeable ; it seems to have out- 
 grown its strength ; whereas, with scarcely an appreciable addition of 
 material, greater capacity, and much increased stability is obtained in 
 the true ellipse. 
 
 The superiority of the upright-sided form over the egg shape, is con- 
 tended for by virtue of a small amount of friction that, in a cited case, 
 may be in its favor when flowing full ; but this is rather begging the 
 question, as the egg shape is adopted for its great advantages in scour- 
 ing action when nearly empty, that being the general condition of most 
 of the sewerage. If prejudice will not admit of the use of the egg 
 shape, and increased height of sewer may be desirable, (a case scarcely 
 possible by-the-bye, in a flat district,) why not adopt the true ellipse, 
 in every way so superior to the construction now in use? It is, how- 
 ever, obvious to my mind, that where sufficient fall and flow of water 
 can be obtained to keep a small circular form of sewer clear of deposit, 
 all departure from that form is erroneous; the size really required in 
 general being so small as to give that advantage of concentration of 
 water which, in the over-large sewers at present in use, has been sought 
 for by the use of the egg-shape form. To take a case that comes first 
 to view, in looking at the contoured map of the city in. the Health of 
 Towns Report: If Mr. Butler Williams's levels of Cornhili be correct? 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 311 
 
 there is a fall in the length of that street of about 1 in SO, and the 
 utmost area that its sewer could drain under com- 
 plete arrangements, would be seven acres. Now, 
 the rain-fall upon that area of an extraordinary 
 storm of two inches in an hour would, with such a 
 current, only occupy the space shown in this sketch, 
 and would be accommodated by a circular pipe of 
 the same radius as that with which the invert of the 
 egg-shape sewer is formed for the purpose of concentration of the flow, 
 the whole of the remainder of the sewer being so much waste. This 
 is supposing that a collateral, not a main sewer, would be constructed, 
 although in a main street; and allowing, moreover, a capacity suffi- 
 cient for very extraordinary storms, which, 1 contend, in such situa- 
 tions, should not enter into the calculation. 
 
 Is not the egg-shaped form to be very much preferred in many cases? 
 Yes. In the extension of the present system of London sewerage, I 
 think it is in most cases to be preferred. I appreciate most fully Mr. 
 Roe's improvements in this respect, and in the flushing apparatus, for 
 to him the great credit is certainly due of the systematic introduction 
 of both these auxiliaries ; but, I feel persuaded, that if Mr. Roe had 
 had to lay down the whole system from the beginning, and had the 
 command of the natural area of drainage, that, for the reason assigned 
 above, we should have seen far less of the egg-shaped form. The cir- 
 cular form is stronger, more economical, presents less frictional sur- 
 face, and is more capacious with the same amount of material. The 
 egg-shaped form of sewer, and the flushing apparatus are invaluable 
 under difficulties, and as means for improving an imperfect system, not 
 for adoption in a perfect one. The presence of one or the other argues 
 imperfection. In Victoria street, between West street and Peter street, 
 Mr. Roe has, in the sewer lately constructed for the River Fleet, used 
 a circle of 10 ft. 3 in. diameter^ which form enabled him to reduce the 
 cost nearly 30 per cent. 
 
 Do you not think that much of the error and imperfection of the 
 sewerage of the metropolis is attributable to separate and independent 
 jurisdiction over one natural area of drainage 1 It clearly must be so. 
 The greater part of the difficulty and wasteful expenditure is certainly 
 traceable to this cause. Nothing could have been devised so calculated 
 to produce and perpetuate an erroneous system as this piecemeal sepa- 
 
312 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 rate control over the same area; nothing 1 could be more mischievous 
 than the sacrifice of nature's boundaries to those of municipal govern- 
 ment ; nothing 1 more absurd than the attempt to reconcile one with the 
 other. The consequence is obvious. In the Holborn and Finsbury 
 district alone, we are told that a quarter of a million sterling would be 
 required to render the outfalls of its sewerage efficient, and in another 
 case, Mr. Roe proposes to effect a great improvement by flushing, if he 
 can get permission (!) from a neighboring Commission. Year after year 
 does an exorbitant waste go on contending with the evil, and year after 
 year have we seen partial, but obvious improvements, springing up in 
 separate jurisdictions, either from prejudice or party feeling, repudiated 
 in others. We can hope for no permanent or general improvement 
 until at least this stumbling block is removed. 
 
 What has been the result of your observation of the usual plan of 
 trapping sewers and drains? The usual plan of trapping is the worst 
 feature of the whole system. These traps retain, in fact, the great ob- 
 jectionable part of the flat-bottomed sewer. All the force of the water 
 for flushing is entirely lost. It is impossible that they can be kept clear 
 of foul deposit. These sketches will show that this must be the case : 
 
 Section of an ordinary Trap to the Gully 
 Shoots, showing deposit of filth. 
 
 Section of an ordinary Bell-trap, 
 showing deposit of filth, 
 
 The bell-trap of sinks and house-drains is usually of the same cha- 
 racter, and equally objectionable. Foul matter collects in the angles, 
 where the water has no power over it, exactly as in the flat-bottomed 
 sewer. These traps are frequently the chief cause of the nuisance 
 they are intended to prevent. I recently met with a case in which a 
 great length of sewer was supposed to be so foul that, notwithstanding 
 all the gully holes were trapped, it created the most abominable odors. 
 On examination, however, I found the sewer perfectly clear of deposit 
 and free from smell, but every trap in connexion with it was filled with 
 decomposing matter, that poisoned the whole neighborhood. What 
 can be more truly absurd than the practice in some of these Commis- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 313 
 
 sions, with respect to the trapping of street gul- 
 lies and the ventilation of sewers'? Traps are 
 put to the street gullies next the foot pavement, 
 which prevent the foul air from rising from the 
 sewer, but which, nine times out often, create as 
 much of it themselves, and then another open- 
 ing is made a few feet further off in the middle 
 of the street to ventilate the sewer, and dis- 
 charge the foul air that the neighboring trap is 
 constructed to prevent! A double nuisance is created instead of one, 
 and at double expense. The valve introduced by Mr. Phillips is a 
 great improvement upon any water-trap, so long as the sewers are 
 allowed to generate foul gases, for there is a current of the gas through 
 all water-traps, the water absorbing it on one side, and giving it out on 
 the other ; but, with a good supply of water, I believe that the syphon 
 water-trap would be preferable to all others, both for gully-holes and 
 sinks, as not liable to choke or get clogged. 
 
 Have you found, in your inquiries, that the public generally have 
 any conception of the extent of the evils with which they are sur- 
 rounded by reason of inefficient drainage? They have not the slight- 
 est conception of it. Complaints of open ditches, and deposits on the 
 surface, are loud enough, but the public mind does not realize those 
 equally offensive and injurious nuisances that are concealed from view. 
 It is difficult to convey an idea of the dreadful condition of the soil 
 around and underneath houses where cesspools and inefficient choked- 
 up sewers and drains abound. I have seen the foundations of whole 
 streets of houses, when exposed to make way for improvement, around 
 and beneath for several feet, black with the faecal saturation of years ; 
 but the mind is scarcely yet impressed with the intimate connexion of 
 these disgusting accumulations with the disease and suffering, the 
 death and destitution, they engender. There is a feature, too, apper- 
 taining to the inquiry, that seems scarcely to enter the public rnind at 
 all, and that is, the effect of imperfect drainage upon food. Imagine a 
 baker, with a foul cesspool in his yard, in close company with a well, 
 and a choked drain in his kitchen a combination by no means difficult 
 to realize. The very heat of his oven brings a stream of poisonous 
 atmosphere into his bakehouse, adding further contamination to every 
 loaf that he has made with the already poisoned water from the well 
 
314 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 behind. A butcher hard by an offensive gully-hole, finding- his meat 
 decomposes much quicker than the weather warrants, and already unfit 
 for human food, disposes of it at tempting price to the poor. A brewer 
 sinks a deep well, and drains his neighbors' wells and cesspools too a 
 flavor something foreign to malt and hops may possibly result. The 
 milkman ties up his cows in ill drained, ill ventilated stalls, and 
 wonders, perhaps, that they become diseased, but retails his poisoned 
 milk, nevertheless, somewhat more dearly for the loss. I once heard a 
 milkman, under cross-examination in Court, when asked the question, 
 whether he did not sometimes add a " leetle" water to the milk he 
 sold, boldly say, " Of course I do ; the London stomach couldn't stand 
 it pure." I have no doubt at all that he was right. 
 
 No. 24. 
 EDWARD CRESY, ESQ. 
 
 You are the author of the " Encyclopedia of Civil Engineering V 
 Yes. 
 
 Have you paid practical attention to the subject of the drainage of 
 towns'? Yes, I have. 
 
 Have you, as an architect, been practically engaged in works in- 
 volving questions of the drainage of houses and sewerage in the 
 metropolis? Yes, I have; in all parts of the metropolis and the 
 suburbs of London. 
 
 On these occasions you have had practical observation of the regu- 
 lations of the several Commissions of Sewers? Yes. 
 
 Have you found any difficulty in executing any of the works you 
 have superintended professionally 1 I will, with your permission, 
 allude to two operations in particular which occurred in the district of 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 
 
 315 
 
 the 'Westminster Commissioners. The first was 
 on an estate on the Knightsbridge road, now part- 
 ly covered with buildings, and known as Rut- 
 land Gate. Rutland house, with its two fields 
 adjoining, being considered as an eligible site for 
 building, I was commissioned by the proprietor 
 to make a plan, laying it out for houses of the 
 first class. After pulling down the house, the ac- 
 companying plan being adopted, I then peti- 
 tioned the Commissioners for leave to construct 
 the sewers. 
 
 What kind of sewer did you propose 1 One of 
 the second size down the centre, which was not 
 granted. I was then instructed by the officers of 
 the Board to petition for the two, as now con- 
 structed, and which are shown on the plan. 
 
 Was it intended originally to build the two large mansions occupied 
 by Mr. Sheepshanks and by Mr. Jones, erected under your superin- 
 tendence? No, the land was laid out for a continued now of houses 
 on each side, with eight towards the road, commanding a view into 
 Hyde Park. 
 
 Had you known this, as the architect of the estate, would you have 
 advised the proprietor to have expended his money in building two 
 sewers'? Certainly not, and the case appears to me to be one of con- 
 siderable hardship; with the risk of the land letting^ and before it 
 could be fairly put into the market, the proprietor was called upon to 
 lay out .2000, which might have been rendered wholly unnecessary, 
 had it been taken for separate villas or mansions. 
 
 After you had constructed these sewers, by the permission of the 
 Commissioners, did any other difficulty occur? A very grave and 
 important one, for we had no outlet at the lower end, the fence which 
 bounded the estate being claimed by the proprietor of the adjoining 
 land, after uniting our sewage with that in Rutland street, which ran 
 on the other side of the wall, and which was the natural course of our 
 drainage, or rather occupied the ditch which formerly conveyed the 
 water from our estate, our junction was cut off, and instead of our 
 sewers performing their duty, they were destined to become too vast 
 cesspools. 
 
316 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What course did you adopt? We again applied to the Board of 
 Commissioners, and, after a considerable number of meetings, was 
 informed that they had no jurisdiction over the rights of private prop- 
 erty, and therefore could afford us no remedy. 
 
 What was clone by you afterwards? The matter was then taken up 
 by the solicitors, and eventually the question was referred to arbitra- 
 tion, when it was decided that our sewers should pour their contents 
 into that to which they had been united. 
 
 Has all the land beyond the two mansions been covered with build- 
 ings ? It is let to a builder, but the works are not yet completed. 
 
 Did you find any difficulty in getting repaid the cost of the sewers 
 in this instance? The first 26 houses paid their proportion of sewage 
 according to their frontage, which was considerable on the plots taken 
 by Mr. Sheepshanks and Mr. Jones ; but no builder could be found to 
 take the remainder of the land on the same terms ; the charge for the 
 sewers was then put on in the shape of a ground rent. 
 
 When Mr. Jones's house was erected, was not. one of the sewers 
 inclosed within his garden, contrary to the usual order of the Commis- 
 sioners '? It was ; but an arrangement was made to have a man-hole 
 at each extremity, with a gate in the fence, so" that the officers of the 
 Board might descend and inspect it at any time. 
 
 During your practice as an architect and civil engineer, would you 
 not have received great facility if you had been able to refer to an 
 accurate map of the metropolis and its suburbs on which the levels 
 were denoted, and the capacity of the sewers defined ? Most certainly, 
 such a survey would be of the highest value, and in consequence of 
 the want of it, we have no distinct idea of the manner in which the 
 several divisions of the metropolis, in particular, are drained ; a map 
 drawn to the scale of from 1 to 16 inches per mile, with contour lines, 
 as suggested by the Academy of Sciences at Paris in 1742, showing 
 the respective levels of the districts surveyed would afford the most 
 valuable and useful information possible, and it is a wonder that it has 
 never been undertaken. For the sewage, or laying clown water or 
 gas-pipes, such a survey, made correctly, would serve the engineer to 
 regulate his works under any circumstances, and to make them more 
 in accordance with the principles of science, and more suitable to the 
 district in which he was employed. When the sewers, with their due 
 increase of sectional area, the water and gas-pipes, with their propor- 
 tions, are correctly laid down> such arrangements might be established 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 317 
 
 that neither could interfere with the other. The plan of a great city 
 so defined would at once suggest the imperfections of its drainage, and 
 exhibit, at the same time, how it might be improved and rendered per- 
 fect. 
 
 What was the other estate you mentioned in the neighborhood of 
 London, where you have been professionally employed recently 1 At 
 Chelsea, adjoining the National Society's Normal School. The accom- 
 panying plan shows its arrangement as well as the sites of 90 houses, 
 the whole of which ars either inhabited or in a state of completion. 
 
 What sized houses are they ? Their average frontage is about 18 
 feet. 
 
 What is the area of the entire plot of ground which contains the 
 90 houses, and their streets? 200,000 superficial feet, or a little more 
 than 4J acres ; the length of frontages about 2000 feet, and that of the 
 streets something more than half that extent. 
 
 What sized sewer was proposed by you for the drainage of the whole 
 of these houses'? I did not propose any particular size ; the Commis- 
 sioners, on the receipt of my petition, referred me to their officers, and 
 I was told by them that I must petition for three separate sewers, 
 together upwards of 2000 feet in length, the internal width of which 
 must be 2 feet 6 inches. 
 
 Did you do so ? I did, and before the end of the year 1842, the 
 whole were commenced and completed under the inspection of the 
 surveyors appointed by the Commissioners, and at the expense of my 
 employers, who had the land to let for building. 
 
3 IS MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What sized sewer would you have constructed if you had not been 
 instructed by the Commissioners'? I should have made a barrel-drain 
 about 21 inches in diameter, the sectional area of which would not 
 have been much above 2 feet 4 inches superficial, whilst that of the 
 sewer constructed contained 11 feet 6 inches sectional area, nearly five 
 times as much as was necessary, the expense of which occasioned a 
 cost to each house of <20, and if we call the interest of this money so 
 expended 1 per annum, v\e are adding one-sixth to the positive 
 ground-rent. The 90 houses having to pay 90 per annum for the 
 first cost of the sewer, independent of all the annual sewers-rates, &c. 
 To drain this 4| acres of land has cost the proprietor nearly 20 per 
 acre per annum for the original outlay in constructing the sewers, and 
 the superintendence to be paid for beside, at which rate the whole of 
 the 370,000 houses of the metropolis would require an expenditure of 
 at least .5,400,000, for the construction of its sewage. 
 
 Does this excess of dimension in a sewer affect its useful purposes'? 
 Certainly ; for where the sectional area of a sewer is too large, a con- 
 siderable increase of solid matter is formed during a dry season ; the 
 supply of water which runs from the several drains not being sufficient 
 to float the contents, only during heavy or regular showers are these 
 deposits removed. 
 
 In what manner is the rain-water conveyed into the sewers ? Each 
 house contains about six squares of building, and the water from the 
 roofs, as well as from the two water-closets and sinks, are conveyed 
 into a brick barrel-drain by a 3-inch metal pipe ; consequently, if we 
 compare its sectional area, which is 7*0686 inches, with 600 superficial 
 feet, the area drained, we shall get at its proportion. 
 
 What is the sectional area of the three sewers that these ninety 
 3-inch pipes drain into ? 33 feet 6 inches, the sectional area of the 90 
 pipes being 4' 5 feet only. 
 
 What was the size of the barrel-drain which carried the water from 
 these- 3-inch pipes into the sewer? 12-inch barrel-drains, the cost of 
 which, with the keel-stone, was 30s. per house. 
 
 Do you consider a 3-inch pipe large enough to carry off* the water 
 from a house whose area is 600 feet ? In practice it is found so ; 20 of 
 such pipes, having an area of 1 foot, are sufficient to carry ofTthe rain- 
 water which falls upon 12,000 superficial [feet of building. I have 
 found that pipes having a sectional area of a twelve-thousandth part 
 of the area to be drained sufficient to carry off all the water that at 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 319 
 
 any time falls upon the roofs of buildings. Pipe-drains of earthenware, 
 from 3 to 9 inches in diameter, laid with a proper current, are found, 
 also, admirably adapted to take the water from them into the sewers. 
 
 Would such a rule generally apply to a large district, or a city? It 
 might be applied, if the laws of running water were taken also into 
 account, whose velocity experiences a similar acceleration to that of 
 falling bodies in general. Hence 90 houses do not require so large a 
 sewer as the working out of the answer of the previous question would 
 seem to imply. The sectional area of the 90 pipes, 3 inches in diam- 
 eter, amounting to 4*5 feet, do not require a sewer of that sectional 
 area, nor would the 370,000 houses of the metropolis require so large 
 a sewer as has generally been imagined. 
 
 Have any experiments been made upon the subject, that you are 
 acquainted with? Some years since Gennete* inquired into it, but his 
 opinions varying with those entertained by the practical men of his 
 day, several trials were made by the philosophers of Italy to test their 
 truth, among whom Zendrini, who received his instructions under 
 Guglielmini, may perhaps be considered the most industrious and suc- 
 cessful ; but it would be of the greatest possible value to have these 
 experiments of Gennete's repeated upon a large scale, and the conse- 
 quences of the increase and diminution of volume accurately noticed ; 
 the subject has never, in England, been thoroughly, or even satisfacto- 
 rily investigated. Most of the experiments upon running water have 
 been made with pipes placed one over the other, discharging their con- 
 tents from a constant" he^id. Mathematicians have contented them- 
 selves by establishing the form of curb which these several currents 
 assume ; and where the case of open canals has occupied their atten- 
 tion, they have experimented upon single streams alone, without 
 observing the phenomena of united currents. 
 
 If asked to proportion a sewer, do we understand you to say that 
 you would make it to agree with the united sectional area of the drains 
 that fall into it? Certainly not ; for then I should require a sewer of 
 much larger dimensions than practice has found necessary. On this 
 subject, as I have before observed, there is a perfect misunderstanding; 
 most of the tables and formulae given for pipes and their proportions 
 are in error, in consequence of due allowance not having been made 
 for the additional velocity which running water acquires under various 
 circumstances. The rule hitherto employed would appear analogous 
 
 * Gennete's experiments were printed at Paris, 1760. See Castelli, p. 175, 
 
320 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 to that of the managers of the river Lea, when granting a pij'e to (he 
 New River Company ; they gave one of double the diameter, upon 
 the condition of the New River Company paying twice their former 
 annual rent. And we are not surprised, that when sectional areas are 
 thus computed, other errors should have occurred, for, by doubling the 
 diameters of circles, we quadruple their areas, by which rule more 
 than four times as much water would have passed through; for in 
 making this arrangement, other natural laws should have been taken 
 into the account. ; these have been elaborately discussed by the Italian 
 hydraulicians, who have proved the enormous acceleration and conse- 
 quent augmentation produced by an increase of sectional area. 
 
 For instance, if 130,680 superficial feet of land, or three acres, could 
 be drained during a heavy fall of rain by one foot sectional area of 
 sewer, double that quantity of land would not require two feet sec- 
 tional area of sewer. I understand Mr. John Roe's experiments, when 
 I consider that they were under the influence of these natural laws. 
 I refer to that part of his evidence where he states that 6 acres, 1 rood 
 and 8 poles of land might be drained during tjie time of a violent 
 storm of rain, by a sewer whose sectional area is 2 '44 fret only ; but 
 because 144 square inches, or a superficial foot, may, under ordinary 
 circumstances, be sufficient for the sectional area of a sewer, to drain 
 43,360 superficial feet of land, we do not say that one square inch will 
 drain the one hundred and forty-fourth part of that quantity. 
 
 Will you inform us of the nature of Gennete's experiments'? They 
 were made to prove that when two streams of water, running with the 
 same velocity, and having both their sectional areas equal, were united 
 in one stream, that their sectional area was not doubled. In Holland, 
 it was important to decide this question, for, intersected as it is by 
 canals and drains of every kind, and the land through which they 
 were made being of considerable value, the inhabitants were natu- 
 urally desirous of giving up as little to water-courses as possible. 
 Gennete had evidence of the/act that rivers could be brought together 
 without an increase in their volume proportionate to the increase in 
 their quantity, in the confluence of the Rhine and Moselle, but what 
 he particularly demonstrated was, that the united streams flowed on 
 with an increase of velocity. 
 
 He seems also to have been fully aware that cutting the banks of a 
 river for the purpose of letting off any portions of the torrent is not so 
 effective in drawing off the water as has been generally imagined ; or, 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 321 
 
 in other words, that if a canal had a sectional area of 100 superficial 
 feet when swelled by floods, that 20 canals of 5 feet area each would 
 not have carried off the same water, or so materially have diminished 
 its volume as might be at first supposed. 
 
 Gennete's views were received by the practical men of his day much 
 in the same manner as they would have been treated, perhaps, at the 
 present time. There were many prejudices to be overcome, and par- 
 ticularly some that were generally entertained witli respect to the 
 incompressibility of water. It was argued that you could not compress 
 a double quantity into a less space than twice the area as of each sec- 
 tion; that two separate cubic feet of water, when put together, required 
 a vessel whose capacity was equal to hold them both ; and that two 
 streams of the same velocity were governed by the same laws. 
 
 When Gennete made his experiments in 1755, in Holland, upon the 
 sectional area of united currents of water, he discovered, after noting 
 the height of the water in the original channel, that he could add 
 another stream of half the original quantity, and afterwards another 
 half, without increasing the height or width of the water in the small- 
 est degree. The water in the stream remained during, these experi- 
 ments, at the same height, but it was observed that the velocities of the 
 current were in the same proportions as the additions, viz., as 1, 1J, 
 and 2. He however found a limit to this rule, for when he made the 
 increase three times greater than it was at the commencement, instead 
 of twice, the increase ifi height was 7 V part of the whole height. 
 When lie quadrupled the quantity, the increase was 2 \, and when the 
 quantities were as 5, 6, 7, the increase in height was /, ^ }, and so 
 on in continual proportion; thus 96 streams would require T V X 96 
 = 48 = 2, or the sectional area must be twice the original height. 
 
 To prove this, Gennete afterwards let off the water by degrees in the 
 same proportions, and he found the same results ; the diminutions were 
 in perfect accordance with the previous experiments. Gennete, in his 
 experiments, had a uniform declivity of 1 foot in 1200, and his canals 
 were six or seven inches in breadth. 
 
 How would you apply these experiments of Gennete's to the 90 
 houses constructed under your direction at the King's road, Chelsea ? 
 In our diagram we have a graduated scale for the increase of the capac- 
 ity of the sewer for any number of 96 houses. 
 
322 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 12 houses would require a sewer J larger than would be required for one. 
 
 94 33 33 33 i 33 33 33 
 
 2 
 
 36 33 5? 3? 3 J? 33 3? 
 
 48 1 or double 
 
 79 3? 33 33 1 1 33 33 33 
 
 1 3 4 
 4 3? 33 33 j_i_ 33 33 33 
 
 96 " 2 or three times the original capacity. 
 
 Each of the 3-inch pipes which conduct the water from the houses, 
 has a sectional area of 7*0686 square inches, or 20 of them nearly 
 occupy a superficial foot, notwithstanding this they each are made to 
 discharge themselves into a 12-inch barrel-drain, the sectional area of 
 which is 113*9976 square inches. Suppose, then, we apply our rule 
 to the 12-inch barrel-drain, the capacity of which, no one will doubt, 
 is sufficient to carry off the surplus waters from each house; we shall 
 have to multiply 113*9976 by 3, which gives us the product of 
 341*9828 square inches, or 2*374 feet superficial. A barrel-drain hav- 
 ing that area, then would, according to M. Gennete's rule, be sufficient 
 to carry away all that could pour down ninety-six 12-inch barrel-drains ; 
 although a drain 21 inches in diameter, whose sectional area is 2*4 feet, 
 appears small for the purpose, yet it would be ample. Had we multi- 
 plied 113-9976 by 96, we should have had a product of 10921*7696, 
 or upwards of 75 superficial feet, and more than 30 times sufficient. 
 
 The sectional area of the sewer, built by order of the Commissioners, 
 is by this calculation, nearly five times greater (ban necessary. 
 
 In the invaluable u Raccalto d'Autori Italiani cbe trattano del moto 
 dell' Acque," printed by Marsigli in 4to, Bologna, 18211824, is a 
 mass of evidence bearing upon this subject, from which it is difficult to 
 make a selection. In the notes I have prepared, however, will be 
 found translations of such authors as have more immediate relation to 
 our present inquiry. Frisi alone, of the whole collection, is to be 
 found in an English dress, ably translated by Major-General John 
 Garstin, 4to., London, 1818, which will account for his omission on the 
 present occasion. 
 
 You are the author of the Architectural Antiquities of Rome, when, 
 measuring the buildings there, did you notice the manner in which the 
 engineers drained them? This subject naturally attracted my atten- 
 tion, arid I took some pains, when the water was not very high in the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 323 
 
 Tiber, to examine the Cloaca Maxima, now rendered useless from the 
 deposit at its mouth, and the great elevation of the bed of the river 
 above what it was when this sewer was constructed ; it is 14 feet in 
 width and 32 feet in height ; constructed of large and massive blocks 
 of Albano stone called Pepperino, and has a semi-circular vault, formed 
 of three rings of voussoirs. What quantity of land, or portion of the 
 ancient city, poured its waters into it, at present it would be difficult 
 accurately to define ; its construction, as well as those remaining at 
 the Alban Lake and ;hat of Fucinus, are ample testimonies of the 
 thorough knowledge of the subject 2000 years ago. Had the river Tiber 
 received its due share of attention, and the discharge of its water into 
 the Mediterranean Sea been properly maintained, the sewage of Rome 
 would have been perfect at this day; as would also the drainage of the 
 sites of many of our ancient mansions and religious houses, had the 
 Commissioners appointed to examine the several water-courses in this 
 kingdom continued that active superintendence which Dugdale has 
 reported to have been exercised centuries ago. The statutes of Rom- 
 ney Marsh then gave ample power, and the rivers were never impeded 
 in their course by darns or obstructions of any kind. 
 
 Can you descrrbe any large building, at Rome or elsewhere, where 
 there are proofs remaining of what you state? The Colosseum itself 
 is the best instance I can adduce. It has often been remarked, that 
 the Roman engineers displayed far superior talents, in the carrying off 
 the waters from the buildings they constructed, -to those evinced by the 
 freemasons or their successors. Before the foundations of these vast 
 amphitheatres were laid, every consideration was given to the best 
 method of draining the vast accumulation of water, of every kind, 
 which could fall or be accumulated within their nrea. Not so with 
 the constructions of a later time; our cathedrals, in particular, show 
 no evidence of any forethought upon the subject; they spurt forth 
 from numerous gargouilles the rain water which falls upon their roof; 
 streams which, falling in a parabolic curve on the ground, sap the very 
 foundations, and render damp the thick walls which circumscribe them. 
 If we examine the Colosseum with attention, to this subject, we shall 
 rind that the Roman engineers, employed in its construction, thoroughly 
 understood the important question of drainage, and that they have left 
 us an evidence of their acquaintance with the principles which regulate 
 running waters, or at least of their practical knowledge of those laws 
 which mathematicians have taken so much trouble to explain. It is 
 21 
 
324 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 to be regretted that this subject has not been referred to by the modern 
 writers of Italy, whose skill and ability would have at once recognized 
 the masterly manner in which the Romans efTected the drainage of 
 their city and its suburbs. 
 
 Frontinus, Pliny, and many other Latin authors, in alluding to the 
 aqueducts, conveying copious streams of water, confirm the idea, that 
 neither was science wanting for its supply nor skill in its distribution. 
 The Colosseum comprises, within its walls, an area of 249,840 su- 
 perficial feet, or nearly 5| acres of land. Every inch fall of rain upon 
 its entire area would therefore amount to 20,820 cubic feet of water. 
 Besides the consideration for carrying ofT so large a quantity as the 
 above, or as frequently happens in Rome, the pouring down of sheets 
 of water during a storm, it was necessary to provide urinals and other 
 conveniences for 70,000 or 80,000 persons constantly assembled to 
 witness the shows and games, and who often remained rivetted to the 
 spot for days together. Such a building had the character of a vast 
 citadel or city, and to preserve cleanliness as well as to effectually drain 
 so vast an accumulation of water and other matter as would be found 
 within it, naturally deserved the most profound consideration, and upon 
 examining its remains, we feel amply satisfied not only that such was 
 indeed the case, but that the practical development was executed in so 
 ingenious -and praiseworthy a manner as to excite our astonishment, 
 and to serve us as a model for operations of a similar kind. 
 
 We also find a due proportion prevailing between the sectional areas 
 of the upright pipes and the sewers which received the streams that 
 poured down them ; there is a positive evidence that the Roman en- 
 gineers were acquainted with the laws of velocity of running water, 
 and especially with the fact that a number of small pipes, though 
 charged, did not require a sewer whose sectional area should be equal 
 to their united areas , we are at once struck with this, which could not 
 be the result of chance or accident, for we find it borne out, in several 
 other buildings of magnitude, constructed by these masters of the 
 world . 
 
 The perfect uniformity which prevails throughout the plan of the 
 Roman amphitheatre affords a favorable view of the scheme for laying 
 down its sewers. Its elliptical form, with its eighty converging walls 
 perforated on the ground plan, by four elliptical corridors affording 
 access to the several stairs which conducted to the vomitories, ranged 
 one above the other, all contribute to facilitate the arrangement of its 
 numerous pipes and drains. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 325 
 
 As the area or interior floor where the games was exhibited was of 
 timber, furnished with several trap doors, communicating: with cages 
 and dens, formed beneath it, and in which the animals were placed 
 previous to their exhibition, it was not practicable to have the drain- 
 age conducted in that direction ; and, indeed, previous to these ar- 
 rangements being formed, when the amphitheatre was used as a nau- 
 inachy, the water was allowed to form a vast lake within the podium 
 walls, it would not have been able to have got rid of this quantity by 
 better means than we find applied here, and which led it away by 
 sewers and drains in the direction towards its exterior. 
 
 At present we have remaining three sewers elliptical on their plan, 
 one surrounds the building, on the exterior, at some feet distance from 
 the foundation ; the second, 17 inches wide and three feet deep, does 
 not pass through either of the two outer corridors for reasons which we 
 shall afterwards give, but immediately behind or within the third row 
 of massive stone piers which terminate the several radiating walls that 
 carry the arches on which the marble seats were placed for the spec- 
 tators. 
 
 The third elliptical sewer, 17 inches in width and 3 feet in depth, 
 passes round the outer edge of the third corridor ; the foundations of 
 this sewer are as much above that which passes under the radiating 
 walls, behind the third row of piers, as it is above the level of the 
 outer one which follows the contour of the building beyond its founda- 
 tions. 
 
 Around the inner edge of the podium all is an open channel 
 deeply cut in the pavement; this, with a proper current, conveys the 
 water to numerous perforated sink stones, whence it is again carried off 
 by 42 small drains into the sewer of the third corridor ; 48 similar 
 drains, parallel with the radiating walls, then convey it into the second 
 elliptical sewer behind the third range of piers. 
 
 Twenty radiating drains, 17 inches in width, conduct it afterwards 
 into the outer sewer wtfich communicates with the Cloaca Maxima 
 near the Meta Sudans. 
 
 These several sewers and drains have a uniform and, at the 
 same time, a very considerable fall following the inclination of the 
 pavement. 
 
 The outer wall of this vast edifice is 157 feet 6 inches in height, 
 
326 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 and we observe in the brick lining of the inner face of its upper stories 
 160 indents, which enclose earthenware pipes 9 inches in diameter, the 
 sectional area of each being equal to about '44 of a superficial foot. 
 
 These several pipes continue through the several floors, and are at 
 last led to others which are contained within the thickness of the radi- 
 ating walls, and which are directly over the middle elliptical sewer 
 carried round behind the third row of stone piers. 
 
 The entire number of these perpendicular pipes, throughout the 
 Colosseum, which fall into this sewer is 160, and their total sectional 
 area being '44 X 160 =70*40 ft., whilst the sewer they empty into 
 has a sectional area of 4*25 feet only, or 1 ft. 5 in. X 3 ft. = 4 ft. 3 
 in.; the area of the pipes together being 16J times that of the sewer. 
 
 If we consider each of the eighty divisions on the plan of the Colos- 
 seum as a separate building with an area of 3120J superficial feet, that 
 quantity multiplied by 80 = 249,840 superficial feet the total area of 
 the building. Then dividing 3120| by 88 feet, we find the proportion 
 of the two perpendicular pipes to be ^V oth part of the area they 
 drain. 
 
 If we take out the area which is not drained by these perpendicular 
 pipes, the proportion would, however, be somewhat increased, though 
 then greatly at variance, with modern practice ; for instance : 209,229 
 superficial feet being the area of the building, after the arena or open 
 space is deducted, if that is divided into 80 parts, we shall find about 
 2615 feet or thereabouts, drained by the two upright pipes, whose 
 united sectional area is *88 of one superficial foot, or about gVo o tQ 
 part of the area of the surface they carry down the water from. 
 
 The Amphitheatre at JVismes being better preserved than the Colos- 
 seum, exhibits admirably the details requisite for the drainage of its 
 capacious elliptical area. Its total length is 437*5 feet, its width 332*5 
 feet hence 537'5 X 332*5 X 7854 = 114,251 superficial feet for its 
 entire content; an inch of rain falling upon this would produce 
 9,521 1 cubic feet of water. The arena is ^26*75 feet by 125*75, 
 its area is 22,394, which subtracted from the previous sum, gives 91,857 
 for the area of the portion devoted to the spectators. 
 
 The seats, which are carried from the podium wall to the very sum- 
 mit of the amphitheatre, are distributed into four precinctions ; the 
 whole number amount to 35, and as they all have a gentle inclina- 
 tion towards the edge, the water falls from them easily ; these seats, 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 327 
 
 being altogether in length 30,660 feet, would accommodate 23,000 
 spectators. 
 
 Its Drainage. Fifty-six of the radiating walls contain in their thick- 
 ness, capacious stone pipes, which bring down the water and drainage 
 from the urinals, placed in the upper portions of the building. They 
 are all situated behind the second pier, at a small distance from the 
 outer corridors, and continua from the landing of the staircases imme- 
 diately below the gallery of the upper story to the foundations. 
 
 These pipes are singular in their construction, and give evidence of 
 considerable thought and ingenuity. Their diameter is from 12 to 
 13 inches in the clear, hollowed out of the middle of stones about 2 feet 
 in height; the upper course having on its botlnm bed a portion of the 
 frustrum of a cone, about six inches more thaji the diameter of the 
 pipe, which sinks into a recess, hollowed out of the stone below to re- 
 ceive it, and which is about 1J inches deep. To what height these 
 pipes continued originally, it is not possible to determine exactly, as 
 the stone which covers them was placed there when the building was 
 repaired a few years ago ; but there is not the slightest doubt they car- 
 ried off the water of every kind from the upper portions of the building. 
 
 These 56 pipes, after receiving the water of the several urinals of 
 the passages above, by means of another pipe considerably inclined, de- 
 liver their contents into a circular recess, about 28 feet in diameter, and 
 which is situated in the concrete mass upon which the staircases are 
 founded. 
 
 From the base of this wall is a drain 13 inches wide and 17 inches 
 high, laid with a current, covered at the top by a flat stone of consider- 
 
328 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 able thickness, and having its bottom formed by another of equal 
 strength. This drain unites with the correspondent one laid from 
 the next wall, making its junction in the middle of the division un- 
 der the stairs ; they there discharge their contents into another 17J 
 inches wide and 21J inches high into a perpendicular shoot that falls 
 into a sewer continued around the outer corridor. 
 
 The sectional area of the inclined drain that pours its contents into 
 the sewer is 2 feet 7 inches, whilst the united area of the two cylin- 
 drical pipes is about 1 foot 10 inches. 
 
 From the upper gallery the water was brought down by 64 circular 
 pipes, 2 inches in diameter, laid 'on the inclined arches or ramps which 
 carried the steps, which mounted from the entresol to this upper gal- 
 lery. These pipes, when they arrived at the entresol, did not discharge 
 their contents into the open channel of its pavement, but, after drop- 
 ping at the last step perpendicularly a few feet, were continued down 
 the arches of the lower flight of stairs, almost to the outer corridor of 
 the ground-floor, where they poured into the well made to receive the 
 water of the sixty-four perpendicular pipes 13 inches diameter already 
 described. 
 
 From the bottom of the steps which led from this gallery or entresol 
 to the vomitories of the second precinction, there were also sixty-four 
 pipes, 2 inches in diameter, which conducted the water into the cave 
 or vaulted room under the flights of stair^ that led from the outer cor- 
 ridor of the ground-floor to the entresol. 
 
 There were also thirty-two pipes, or holes, an inch ] in diameter, 
 through which the water from the pavement of this entresol was car- 
 ried into the open drain below. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Sixty-four drains are employed to bring down the waters from the 
 vomitories of the first and second precinction, and deliver them into an 
 open drain or channel formed in the pavement of the interior gallery 
 of the ground-floor, and which, by means of four currents given to it, 
 is at last conveyed into the covered sewer which circumscribes the arena. 
 
330 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 In the middle of the flight of steps that conduct from the third or 
 inner corridor to the seats of these precincts are two perpendicular holes 
 2 inches in diameter, pierced through the thick landing, slightly dished 
 out to receive the waters, and lo conduct them iuto the middle of the 
 open water-course shown on the plan between the arena and second 
 corridor. A, represents one of these perpendicular holes ; at B, on the 
 third corridor, are a similar numher of holes, which lead off the water 
 to the same open channel by 64 channels. 
 
 The second gallery, the section of which is shown above, was made 
 5 feet 5 inches below the level of the outer corridor ; this fall was given 
 (o carry off the rain which might be driven through the sixty outer 
 arcades, and therefore, at the foot of the staircase, these last sixty-four 
 pipes or holes are introduced for the purpose. 
 
 From the second precinction the water was conveyed by twenty-four 
 pipes, 3| inches in diameter. 
 
 From the first or lower precinction, twelve circular pipes, 3| inches 
 in diameter, conducted off the water into the channel 23 inches wide, 
 which we have described, between the second corridor and the arena. 
 Around the arena was a large sewer, elliptical on plan, placed about 
 7 feet 10 inches from the inner face of the podium wall, built very 
 carefully with blocks of stone, or, as it is there called, moellon, and 
 covered internally with a fine cement. The covering was a flag 8 
 inches thick, resting on a course of freestone 6 inches high, which 
 slightly projected over the inner lining of cement. The stone which 
 covered the sewer was nearly level, and the face of the sewer was reg- 
 ular throughout. 
 
 This sewer internally was 3 feet 6 inches in width, and 4 feet 9 inches 
 in depth, having a sectional area of 16 feet 8 inches; its side-walls 
 were 18 inches in thickness, and every where these, as well as its 
 foundations, were backed by a mass of concrete. The arrows on the 
 plan show the course of its current outwards, and the manner in which 
 the whole of the waters that fell within the entire site of the amphi- 
 theatre were collected and carried off. 
 
 The three hundred and forty-eight pipes we have described, as con- 
 nected with the urinals and channels for bringing down the rain water 
 from the several precinctions, together, had a sectional area of about 
 10 feet, and were connected, eventually, with the elliptical sewer ; the 
 whole area of the building discharged its waters by means of these 
 pipes and the open channels on the pavement into it, and if we cal- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 33l 
 
 culate the proportion its section bears to the entire area, we shall find 
 it (o be about 1 foot superficial for every 7,090 feet of area drained. 
 
 The system of flushing practised here with such advantage deserves 
 next to be noticed, there being means of driving through this elliptical 
 sewer a volume of water, at pleasure, with such force, that no solid 
 matter could, by any possibility, remain within any of the diains or 
 sewers. An aqueduct, 2 feet 8 inches in width, and 6 feet in height, 
 brought this water from the reservoirs of Nismes, not only to fill, but 
 to purge the whole of these sewers ; after traversing the arena, it de- 
 viated a little to the south-west, where it was carried out at the sixth 
 arcade, east of the south entrance. Man holes, and steps to descend 
 inio this capacious vaulted aqueduct, were introduced in several places, 
 and there can be no doubt, that by directing for some hours such a 
 stream of water through it, the greatest cleanliness was preserved 
 throughout all the sewers of the building. 
 
 The Amphitheatre at Verona is 502 '6 feet in length, and 402 feet in 
 breadth, and its total area 158, 686 '3 superficial feet. It has a well 
 sunk in the very middle of the arena, for the purpose of drawing off 
 the water from the various strata, upon which the building is placed ; 
 that so refined a method of rendering the substructions perfectly dry 
 was adopted by the ancients, is evident, by reference to the description 
 left us by the Marquis Scipio Maffei, in his account of this amphithea- 
 tre ; this learned writer took vast pains to examine all the sewers and 
 drains as they existed in his time, and although he has not fully de- 
 scribed the use of this well, there can be no doubt, whatever, that it 
 served the purposes we have mentioned, as well, perhaps, as occasion- 
 ally afforded a supply of water to the combatants in the arena ; it is 
 about 6 feet 7 inches in diameter, and of a very considerable depth ; 
 its opening, in the time of Maffei, was entirely concealed, and he slates, 
 that it must have contributed materially to drain off the water, and to 
 render the whole area perfectly dry ; indeed, this system of drainage 
 was very common in most of the Roman houses, such a well served as 
 the cornpluvium into which the waters percolating the various strata 
 might be gathered. 
 
 There are three elliptical drains, and two others at right angles with 
 each other, as shown on the plan, neither of which interfere with the 
 foundations of any of the radiating or elliptical walls, except wherein 
 two places they pass under the podiurn wall. These drains are, in no 
 place less than 7 feet 9 inches deep, and that which extends through 
 
332 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Plan of the Amphitheatre at Verona. 
 
 the middle in the longest direction is 5 feet in width, and that at right 
 angles with it 4 feet 4 inches wide, whilst the width of the three ellip- 
 tical drains is about 2 feet 6 inches on an average ; the whole of them 
 are at present very sound, and the large flat flag-stones remain at the 
 bottom of all the greater ones. 
 
 The elliptical drains are not connected with the largest, or that which 
 extends throughout the axes of the amphitheatre, but unite with the 
 drain only which traverses it at right angles. Near the well the four 
 arms meet, and form a circular ring, bounded by a wall, so that should 
 the water rise in the well it would have a ready passage in all the four 
 directions, and be poured out beyond the foundations. 
 
 These drains are built up with regular courses of stone, and covered 
 with large slabs of marble, upwards of 13 inches in thickness, and 
 many of these flat slabs are not less than 10 feet in length. 
 
 On the outside of the amphitheatre was an arched sewer, into which 
 all these large drains discharged themselves, which was constructed 
 somewhat like the Cloaca Maxima, and served probably to carry off 
 the superfluous waters from this part of the city into the Adige. 
 
 The flag-stones which covered the drains were, in many places, per- 
 forated with small round holes, and could be easily taken up for the 
 purpose of allowing them to be examined or cleansed ; and at the low- 
 est ends of those which cross at right angles, within a small enclosure, 
 was an entrance and a flight of steps for the same purpose. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 333 
 
 Under the several flights of steps, and scooped out of the walls, was 
 a recess at a convenient height, in which was laid a perforated stone, 
 having 1 a pipe or conduit, into the drains of the corridors ; these carried 
 off the urine and water in a most perfect manner. 
 
 The compluvium, mentioned by the ancient writers, was, according 
 to Isidorus (lib. 15, cap. 5,) the situation where the surrounding waters 
 were gathered, and Varro seems to imply that it was the place where 
 water arose, or mounted before it could be carried off, " Impluvium 
 dicatur, qnia deorsum impluit, compluvium vero qua sursum." In the 
 strong keeps of our Norman fortresses we have usually in the centre 
 a shaft sunk through the top strata, for the purpose of collecting the 
 water which percolates the soil. At Rochester and at Coningborough 
 Castles such deep wells may yet be traced, and the stability of such 
 weighty structures mainly depends upon keeping their foundations dry, 
 for humidity, constantly permitted to sap the earth, either beneath or 
 around the lofty tower, would cause its descent or inclination to the 
 perpendicular. An examination of the Leaning Tower at Pisa, an 
 account of which I have elsewhere given, accompanied with measure- 
 ments taken some years ago, will at once show that its perpendicularity 
 would have been maintained had a well been sunk in the centre, to 
 have Collected the waters which have caused its inclination. Another 
 imp . *nt purpose was answered by sinking this deep shaft within the 
 amp tjheatre of Verona, which was also practised in most of the others, 
 whoi, foundations have been examined ; the soil never could be satu- 
 rated with any fluid, for whatever found its way upon or into it, by the 
 leakage of the drains, would be again collected into this well, and 
 there suffered to pass off by infiltration through a lower stratum, which, 
 whatever might be its tenacity, could not affect a weighty building 
 above it ; no effluvia could hence be generated, or miasma arise;, and 
 the atmosphere of an amphitheatre, where such precautions were used, 
 would be rendered comparatively pure. 
 
 There are many sites of towns and cities on the sides of hills where 
 the stratification 'inclines towards the valley below, which are damp 
 and unhealthy from the want of similar precautions ; the buildings 
 which have the most solid and the deepest foundations being those 
 which suffer the most injury ; let us suppose the site of a city to be on 
 the slope of a hill whose inclination is at an angle of 15 or 20 degrees, 
 and that its soil for the depth of 30 or 40 feet is composed of gravel 
 and sand, or any other, through which water freely percolates, if we 
 
334 MINUTES or EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sink an excavation in such a soil all the water which flows through the 
 entire stratum will enter this excavation and remain there, and if the 
 drains we introduce are not low enough to carry the whole off, we have 
 a moist and soft subsoil to sustain our future erection; a well sunk in 
 the centre through this entire capping, and continued down to a per- 
 meable stratum, would in such a case most effectually carry off the 
 water, and leave our foundations dry ; or it would perhaps at times 
 mount within the shaft, where it might be conducted away as we see 
 in the amphitheatre at Verona. Great care should be used in forming 
 the catch water sewers and drains, which are cut at right angles with 
 the stratification, for oftentimes, from their not being laid in deep 
 enough, or without the precaution of sinking shafts down to the per- 
 meable strata below, the waters in their current are carried beneath 
 them, and wash away their very foundations ; this occurred to a sewer 
 on the Ladbroke estate at Netting Hill. 
 
 How would you rfpply the several experiments you have recited to 
 us, or the formula of Zendrini, Grandi, and Gennette to the propor- 
 tions of a sewer, and the drains which fall into it? Let us commence 
 with one pipe 3 inches in diameter, the sectional area of which is, 
 7*0686 inches, twenty of which we have already supposed equal in 
 area 144 inches or 1 superficial foot, and that it has a sufficient capac- 
 ity to carry off the water and the drainage from a house which covers 
 600 superficial feet. This pipe, placed perpedicularly, is nearly 50 
 feet in height, and of the same diameter throughout ; but as the water 
 which passes into it at the top, descends with an increased velocity, 
 we may assume, that as it falls through a greater length, in the 2d sec- 
 ond of time, that a smaller diameter would suffice for that 
 distance, and that the bore of the pipe might be dimin- 
 ished proportionately to the increase of velocity. Such a 
 pipe would, therefore, have the shape of an inverted frus- 
 trum of an elongated cone, the lower diameter of which 
 would be the sectional area upon which that of the drains 
 must be proportioned. 
 
 The water, after it has passed this diminished aperture, 
 would, however, lose a portion of its velocity, if the drain, 
 which conveyed into the main sewer, was not properly 
 connected, or made to form a part of it, when it would 
 partake of the effects of the last velocity in the perpendic- 
 ular pipe. If the perpendicular as well as the inclined 
 pipe were formed in one, its diameter might be diminished 
 throughout, proportionately to its accelerated velocity. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 335 
 
 But we will not suppose the form of the perpendicular pipe altered 
 from the cylindrical, which practice has found the most convenient, 
 but proceed to proportion the inclined drains which conduct the water 
 from it into the sewer. Our house drains are usually laid with a fall 
 of an inch and a quarter to every ten feet in length, we may call this 
 inclination one in every 100, or a fall of one foot in a hundred, which 
 affords a velocity of about 13 feet in a second of time. 
 
 By what means do you establish that velocity ? I treat this subject 
 as I would a river or canal. I should first ascertain its hydraulic mean 
 depth, which is the quotient of the sectional area, divided by the length 
 of the outline of the section in contact with the bottom. 
 
 We have already seen, that when a river flows with a uniform mo- 
 tion, its velocity varies, as the square roots of (he hydraulic mean depth, 
 and of the sine of the inclination jointly ; and it has also been satisfac- 
 torily shown, that the mean velocity of a river, in a second, is nearly 
 ten-elevenths of a mean proportional between the hydraulic mean 
 depth, and the fall in two miles of 126,720 inches. If the velocity be 
 expressed in inches, and increased by its square root, it will give the 
 velocity of the surface ; if diminished by its square root, the velocity 
 at the bottom. It, however, appears that the velocity increases a little 
 more rapidly than the square root of the fall. , 
 
 Mr. Watt has detailed, in one of his experiments, the velocity he 
 found in the waters of a canal, whose width at top was IS feet, at bot- 
 tom 7 feet, and 4 feet deep, and which had a fall of 4 inches to a mile. 
 
 He found the velocity at the top was 17 inches in a second. 
 " in the middle 14 
 
 " " at the bottom 10 " 
 
 The mean velocity being 13 inches in a second. 
 
 To ascertain the hydraulic mean depth, we must divide the area of 
 the section 2 (18+7) = 50 by the breadth of the bottom, and length of 
 the sloping sides, added together, whence we have 50 feet 
 
 20^ 
 
 inches, and the fall in two miles being 8 inches, we have J 8X29*13 
 := 15 '26, for the mean proportional, of which ten-elevenths is 13*9 
 inches, nearly agreeing with Mr. Watt's observation. 
 
 Therefore to find the velocity of a river or sewer from its fall, or the 
 fall from its velocity, we have only to remember that the velocity in a 
 second is ten-elevenths of a mean proportional between the hydraulic 
 mean depths and the fall in two miles. 
 
336 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Two miles or 126,720 inches divided by 8, gives us a fall of 1 in 
 15,840 and with this fall we find a velocity of 13*9 inches in a second. 
 
 The 
 
 1 inch 
 
 Inches in 
 Inches. a Second. Velocity. 
 
 fall in 15,840 producing a velocity of 13*9 we call 1 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 JJ 
 
 27-8 
 
 55 
 
 2 
 
 9 
 
 5. 
 
 5 
 
 JJ 
 
 41-7 
 
 55 
 
 3 
 
 16 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 55-6 
 
 ?5 
 
 4 
 
 25 
 
 JJ 
 
 55 
 
 69-5 
 
 55 
 
 5 
 
 36 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 73-4 
 
 55 
 
 6 
 
 49 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 97-3 
 
 55 
 
 7 
 
 64 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 111*2 
 
 55 
 
 8 
 
 81 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 125-1 
 
 55 
 
 9 
 
 100 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 139-0 
 
 55 
 
 10 
 
 121 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 152-9 
 
 55 
 
 11 
 
 144 
 
 JJ 
 
 55 
 
 166-8 
 
 55 
 
 12 
 
 169 
 
 55 
 
 55 
 
 170-7 
 
 55 
 
 13 
 
 Though in the above table 144 inches rise in 15,840, is not quite 1 
 in 100, it is the nearest for our purpose of comparison ; its veloci 1 y be- 
 ing 12, or at the rate of 166*8 inches in a second; we shall therefore, 
 from if, assume that our ordinary drains, with a fall of 1 in 10' , lave 
 a velocity of something more than 13 feet in a second. 
 
 If we draw up another table, in which we consider the fall of foot 
 in 100 as the minimum we shall obtain the following results : 
 
 Velocity. 
 
 1 foot fall in 100 ft., gives a velocity of 13 feet in a sec'd, which is 1 
 
 4 " 26 " 2 
 
 9 " " 39 " 3 
 
 16 " 52 " 4 
 
 25 " " 65 5 
 
 36 " " 78 " 6 
 
 49 " " 91 " 7 
 
 64 " " 104 " 8 
 
 81 " " 117 " 9 
 
 100 or perpendicular 130 " 10 
 
 If then a perpendicular pipe, with an area of 7*0686 inches, dis- 
 charged itself into a drain, laid with a fall of 1 in 100, its sectional 
 area, by the above rule, ought to be 70*0686 inches; a barrel-drain 9J 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 337 
 
 inches diameter, therefore, which contains 70*8823 superficial inches 
 in its sectional area, would be sufficient for the purpose ; for the per- 
 pendicular pipe, having ten times the velocity, would discharge 130 
 feet, whilst the drain was only pouring out 13 feet, therefore the ne- 
 cessity of increasing the dimensions of the latter in proportion. 
 
 If we consider that the diameter of the 3-inch perpendicular pipe 
 is in effect diminished, towards the bottom, to 2 inches, the sectional 
 area of which is 3 f 1416 inches only, and that the same velocity is con- 
 tinued through the drain that connects it with the sewer, that it is vir- 
 tually but one pipe, then an area of 31*416 inches, or a pipe of 6*3 
 inches in diameter, might be found sufficient. 
 
 *If the 3-inch perpendicular pipe descended at once into the sewer, 
 we might, without difficulty, take its sectional area, and proportion a 
 sewer to any number of them ; but as there are usually several drains 
 more or less inclined, it is necessary to take their fall into consideration. 
 
 You have staled that when water descends through a perpendicular 
 pipe, its volume assumes the form of an inverted cone, does this operate 
 beneficially, or otherwise, in keeping the pipe clear? In many caseSj 
 I have observed, when the perpendicular pipe, which conveys the 
 water from the roof of a house, is used also as the soil pipe to a closet, 
 that the lower portions of it has been coated with a deposit, which has 
 lessened in thickness towards the top ; the water in its descent losing 
 volume, it has passed through the middle of the pipe, without cleansing 
 its sides, therefore I have thought, that a slight gradual diminution in 
 the bore of a soil-pipe, would be serviceable to cleanliness ; as then 
 the fluids passing through it, would be obliged to scour the sides. 
 
 In the aqueducts constructed by the Romans, have you observed 
 any other precautionary arrangements for cleansing them ? In the 
 aqueducts, we observe the perpendicular grooves, in which metal doors 
 were made to slide up and down, for the purpose of obtaining a head 
 of water, that could be used to force forward by its weight, any im- 
 purities that were deposited at the bottom of the water-course. 
 
 The aqueduct at Lyons, remains sufficiently perfect to show us that 
 the Romans could carry water down a hill, across a valley, and make 
 it rise on the other side, by pressure only ; also, that they knew 
 how to collect any deposit that fell from it in its course, where it would 
 most accumulate. When the fall of a stream is only four hundredths 
 of a foot for every hundred feet, as in some aqueducts, it was absolute- 
 ly requisite to have a method of purifying their channels. 
 
338 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE" TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The aqueduct at Lyons, at once suggests to us the means of driving 
 the contents of a lowly situated sewer forward, and causing them to 
 mount to a higher level ; where an ordinary velocity might be ob- 
 tained. 
 
 NOTES AND TRANSLATIONS REFERRED TO. 
 
 Dissertation on Torrents by J. B. D. C. D. G. 
 
 I come now to the propositions of Guglielmini, in which he pretends 
 that a body descending an inclined plane, will not acquire a velocity 
 'greater than it would have acquired by descending perpendicularly 
 the height of the inclined plane. 
 
 This is most true as respects solids. The elements of a solid being 
 bound and tied together, form a heavy mass, the parts of which press 
 each other reciprocally, and the pressure on the plane, on which they 
 rest is likewise single, as also is the direction ; one velocity, one energy 
 and one action being common to all the parts. On the other hand, a 
 fluid is a mass composed of lesser solid elements, but free, and not 
 bound together by any ties, each of which can, so to speak, move in 
 different directions and with varying velocities, press upon each other 
 and oscillate freely. Whence the highest parts press upon the lower, 
 oscillate, and are easily displaced when there is no impediment. When 
 solids descend by a plane, their individual gravity alone operates; 
 which being less than their absolute gravity, generates, at each instant, 
 a degree of velocity less than that which their absolute gravity would 
 have generated, wherefore solids requires a longer time to descend by 
 the inclined plane, than by the perpendicular, the length of time mul- 
 tiplies the action of the individual gravity, and compensates for the 
 defect of the velocity. Wherefore a solid descending by an inclined 
 plane, has a velocity equal to what it would have, falling the same 
 height directly . Hence the product of the action of the individual 
 gravity, by the lime of the descent by the inclined plane, being equal 
 to the product of the absolute gravity, by the time of the fall along a 
 perpendicular, their velocities must necessarily be equal. But in fluids 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 339 
 
 the case is different. Besides the properties which they possess in 
 commf n with solids, they have another, to wit, the pressure exercised 
 by the upper on the lower part of the fluid, the which being 1 added to 
 the impact, increases the motion also, and hence generates a greater 
 effect than a solid would. Neither is it absurd to suppose that the 
 gravity of a fluid generates a greater velocity on a plane, than when 
 acting perpendicularly, since this generates in greater time, and with a 
 portion of gravity which in a solid which falls remains, so to speak, 
 idle, but in the case of a fluid, becomes active. John Bernoulli, in 
 his works, gives a problem to find the velocity generated by a body 
 sliding on the hypothenuse of a triangle, whose base is sustained by 
 a smooth horizontal plane free from any sensible friction, and moving 
 in the direction of the base. He decomposed the force pressing the hypo- 
 thenuse, or inclined plane, into two parts, one of which is employed 
 in giving motion to the triangle, and sliding it forward; whilst the body 
 descends on the plane, advances the triangle, and communicates thereto 
 a certain rate of velocity ; the descending body thus requires a velocity 
 equal to that which it would have in falling perpendicularly, and the 
 triangle has another force generated by that which presses it, whence it 
 results that the sum of the two motions is greater than that which a 
 body would acquire by its simple descent. Wherefore, since the afore- 
 said force by pressing, generates velocity and motion distinct from that 
 which a body, in descending, generates; in like manner it is appli- 
 cable to water pressing on the lower films, and by pressing, commu- 
 nicating additional force to them. Besides, there are other reasons 
 corroborative of this truth, among which is the fact, that it is neces- 
 sary to spread the accelerated velocity of water passing from a larger 
 to a narrower section over a mean of pressure. 
 
 Galileo says, " I have been carefully considering and going through 
 various problems to investigate the acceleration of water having to' 
 pass through a narrower channel, also whether it has the same de- 
 clivity in both." The greater number of authors solve the point by 
 increasing the height of the water, and hence the pressure, thus gene- 
 rating a greater velocity. Eustace Manfredi thus expresses himself: 
 " The same water passes through a lesser as through a greater sec- 
 tion, wherefore it is forced to pass with a greater velocity, precisely as 
 will be the case in a vase in which the surface of the water may be at 
 a certain height above the summit of the aperture." Guglielmini, to 
 the same effect : " The upper parts press the lower, and oblige them 
 22 
 
340 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 to receive a force, which being compelled lo act, produces the same 
 degree of velocity which the descent would have given them." We 
 might quote our authors, who account for the increased velocity in 
 narrower sections by having recourse to the pressure generated by the 
 height of the upper parts, only they are in doubt on this subject, 
 whether to attain so great a velocity it be necessary that the upper 
 water should increase in height till it becomes stationary ; not being 
 able to believe that the upper water which is in the act of running is 
 capable of producing a new increment of velocity in the lower. But 
 experience teaches us that if the breadth of a section be diminished 
 one-half, the water will not rise that half, as would appear necessary ; 
 if the velocity does not increase, it increases at least very little, either 
 in section or at the base, where the reduced section are of the same 
 breadth, since the water retained by the narrowing of the piers of a 
 bridge is but slightly raised. Wherefore it is necessary that the velocity 
 increase without having regard to any new inclination, which is. always 
 the same, but only by an increase of height which causes a pressure 
 on the lower water which is in the act of running, whence I deduce the 
 argument to strengthen my opinion in the case in which the velocity, 
 arising from the inclination, is equal or greater than that which might 
 have been generated by the pressure. Let us take two cases, one 
 which allows the same measure of water to pass through one section 
 twice as little as the first preserving the same inclination, the other in 
 which the velocity increases till it becomes twice as much. 
 
 But whence comes such an increase of velocity 1 what is the princi- 
 ple, what the nature of it? To say with Gennete, that twice the 
 quantity of water doubles the velocity, is not to adduce a proof but to 
 advance a mere assertion, which either supposes or requires it. I do 
 not think that a true philosopher will perceive in the increment of so 
 much water the principle of so great an acceleration. It behooves us 
 to examine the genesis of such a phenomenon, and to observe the 
 mechanism which nature adopts therein. And, firstly, two epochs of 
 time are to be distinguished, one the first perceptible moment in which 
 the section is reduced to half. Now, at this first instant, the water 
 must swell and rise much above its first level, in which rise it gene- 
 rates a proportional velocity. But in the very act in which such a velo- 
 city is generated, the water begins to fall, wherefore the present case 
 holds good, that the sections are in reciprocal proportion with the 
 velocity. The water does not fall in this manner, wherefore it returns to 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 341 
 
 its first level, or a little higher, there being- a constant principle which 
 compensates for a portion of the velocity destroyed by successive ob- 
 stacles. Water in its course meets with continual resistance, which 
 diminishes its force, wherefore there remains in the water a constant 
 principle which supplies and renews any decrement of velocity which 
 the resistance may produce. Now this principle is, that whatever small 
 increase of height above the original level causes pressure, causes also 
 velocity. Arrived at which point, the water maintains the same height, 
 which I have elsewhere designated equilibrium and constant state. 
 Observers have not paid attention to the first epoch in which the water 
 swells, is agitated, balances itself, but only have considered the other 
 in which it acquires equilibrium, state, law. All this takes place so 
 quickly that the swelling, sinking, and equilibrating hardly are evident 
 to our perceptions. If, as I believe, the experiments of Gennete were 
 true, according to which a river doubles or triples its water without 
 raising its level, then it would be correct to say that it was free from 
 any sensible resistance. This might be the case in an artificial river of 
 short length, over a level bottom with smooth sides, and furnished with s 
 clear water. But in a natural and turbid stream, where the resistance, 
 and that considerable, will never be wanting, it is not likely that when 
 reduced to half its original section, it preserves its former level. This 
 being determined, to come to the question above proposed, I resolve it 
 thus : Either the velocity begins to increase by the water beginning 
 to swell, or the whole mass increases. If the first takes place, then 
 the height being small, and hence the pressure being likewise small, 
 the velocity generated will be also small. It is not that so small a 
 velocity is added to so*great, which it derives from an inclination, con- 
 trary to the sentiment of S'Gravesand. If the second takes place, it 
 being then the velocity which increases, is equal to, or is less than that 
 which results from an inclination, and not having any other gene- 
 rating principle; than the pressure, it is clear that it acts when the 
 velocity which generates itself is less or equal to that which was 
 before generated by the inclined plane. Now, 1 repeat, there- 
 fore, that the water, as it strikes the bottom, presses the lower 
 films which run, spread out upon it, by which the pres- 
 sure is communicated from above downwards. I agree with what 
 Manfredi says, that u all the lower strata of water may be regarded 
 as so many bottoms, or actual planes, with regard to the upper planes 
 which run upon them. Hence these fluid planes are sensible of the 
 same pressure of running water which they would sustain if it were 
 
342 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 stationary at an equal height." To me it appears an incontestible 
 truth, that water which presses the bottom should press all that portion 
 by which the pressure is communicated, otherwise if it does not press 
 all that which forms the middle, it will never arrive at the bottom of 
 it, which is contrary to all experience. If this bottom be of a curved 
 form, concave towards the water, the pressure will have the action of a 
 centrifugal force, the which conspiring with the former, will increase 
 the momentum, and thereby its energy and velocity." 
 
 GUIDO GRANDI. 
 Treatise on the Motion of Water. B. 
 
 PROPOSITION XXXVII. Our author has taken considerable pains to 
 construct a Parabolic table, given in his work ; by a reference to which, 
 much labor will be saved by those who desire to make similar investi- 
 gations, he thus describes it : 
 
 " This table is divided into three columns. The first containing a 
 natural series of numbers from 1 to 1800, representing equal parts, as 
 inches or other measures. These, numbers are the heights from which 
 the water falls. The second column contains the roots of the opposite 
 numbers in the first, and expresses the velocity of the water, corres- 
 ponding to the height in the first column, in integers and decimals ; 
 when the root is somewhat greater than the truth, the sign -j- is pre- 
 fixed, and when less . The third column contains the product of 
 the first and second, and must be read off as exceeding or falling short 
 of the truth, according as the sign + or is prefixed to its second 
 factor. *. 
 
 It is clear that if the numbers of the first column express the height 
 of a parabola, the numbers in the second will be its ordinates, when its 
 latus rectum, or parameter, is 1, or at least, they will be proportional to 
 the ordinates in subduplicate ratio of unity to the latus rectum of a 
 given parabola, and the numbers in the third column will be the rec- 
 tangles circumscribing the parobola which has unity for its latus rectum 
 and will be moreover proportional to the area of the parabola, which 
 is always fds of the circumscribing rectangle. 
 
 If the parabola has 2J for its latus rectum in terms of the first col- 
 umn, all its ordinates are to the ordinates of the parabola of the same 
 height, having 1 for its latus rectum, in subduplicate ratio of 2J to 1, 
 that is, as 1J to 1, or as the circumscribed rectangle, to the parabola, it 
 is clear that the parabola whose latus rectum is 2| will be equal to the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 343 
 
 rectangle which circumscribes the parabola whose latus rectum is unity; 
 but such a rectangle is equal to the product of the base by the height, 
 which is the number opposite in the third column, therefore the num- 
 bers in the third column express the area of a parabola whose latus 
 rectum is 2J, and is proportional thereto when the latus rectum is any 
 other quantity. 
 
 Moreover, since the numbers in the first column express the height 
 of water standing in a vessel, or the distance of each particle of run- 
 ning water above its base, and the numbers in the second column rep- 
 resenting the velocity caused by such a height, the numbers in the third 
 column express the quantity of water which will issue through such a 
 width in a given time, through a hole or section whose height would 
 be equal to the whole distance from the surface of the water, or origin 
 of the river, and the base of such a section, as the number in the first 
 column. 
 
 The difference of numbers of the third column will be the quantity 
 of water which escapes in an equal time through a hole or section of 
 equal breadth, and of a height equal to the difference of the corres- 
 ponding numbers of the first column. 
 
 By adding two or more numbers together of the third column we 
 shall have the sum of the quantity of water carried in a given time 
 through several canals of the same width, whose sections correspond to 
 the numbers of the first column ; and the aggregate of such numbers, 
 or the nearest thereto, in the third column will correspond to that num- 
 ber in the first, which indicates a height capable of comprising the 
 channels united, as will be better understood by the following exam- 
 ples : 
 
 1st. Given two streams, the breadth of the first of which is L= 760 
 feet. The velocity of the surface B E, corresponding to the fall A B 
 
 of 1 foot (which, according to Gugliel- 
 mirii's table, is equivalent to 216 feet 5 
 inches per minute, that is, 3| feet in a 
 second, or 2| miles per hour,) the height 
 of the surface B C = 30 feet, whence 
 A C 31 feet ; then the whole parabola 
 A E D C, according to the third column 
 of our table opposite 31 feet, will be 
 found 7175*88, from which, substract- 
 ing the parabola A E B, which is found 
 
344 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 in our third column to be 41*52, the parabolic trapezium B E D C will 
 be 7134*36, and this will be the scale of the velocity of the section 
 B C, which multiplied by the breadth L gives a quantity of water = 
 542211360. 
 
 The second stream having a width M = 139 feet, its superficial velo- 
 city will be G K, depending on the height F G, 8 inches (which gives, 
 by Guglielmini's table, a velocity of 176 feet in a minute, rather less 
 than 3 feet in a second, and 2 miles 56 perches in an hour.) The 
 height of its surface G H is 1 1 feet, and consequently F H 11 feet 8 
 inches, corresponding in our third column to the value of 1656*20 for 
 the parabola F K I H, from which subtracting the parabola F K G, 
 which our table gives opposite 8 inches as 22*64, there remains the 
 trapezium G K I H 1633*56, which is the scale of the velocity of the 
 second stream, which, multiplied by the width M, gives the quantity of 
 water passing in a given time through this river = 227064*84; whence 
 the two quantities carried by both the rivers, will be 5649178*44. 
 Supposing they flow together, without increase of velocity, B E = R;' 
 and let the height O P, at which the united water runs, be the un- 
 known quantity, 'then since N = B A through R, and with the axis 
 N P, describe the parabola N R Q P, the truncated parabola O R Q P 
 will be the scale of the velocity of the united rivers, which multiplied 
 by L = the sum of the two quantities = 5649178*44, which divided 
 by L gives a quotient 7433*13 = the parabolic trapezium R Q P, 
 and adding the parabola N R = 41*52, we shall have the parabola 
 N R Q P = 7474*65, the nearest number to which in the table is 
 7464*28, corresponding to a height of 31 feet 10 inches. This num- 
 ber sought being rather more than the tabular value, it will be found 
 by proportional parts that must be added. Therefore N P = 31 feet 
 101 inches, and O P .= 30 feet 10^ inches; therefore, the union of the 
 streams raises the level B C 10^ inches. 
 
 But if, at the conflux of the rivers, the velocity B E augments, be- 
 coming R, so that the height N depending on it exceeds A B by 1 
 inch, the parabola NOR, corresponding to a height of 13 inches, will 
 equal 46*93, which, added to the trapezium R P Q, found previous- 
 ly to be 7433 * 13, we shall have the total parabola N R Q P = 7480 * 06, 
 the nearest number to which, 7464*28, corresponding to 31 feet 10 
 inches ; but since this is rather too little, we must add \ for the propor- 
 tional part of the difference, whence N P = 31 feet 10J inches ; from 
 which N O = 1 foot 1 inch, being subtracted, there remains P = 30 
 feet 9| inches, making the total increase 3 in this case, 9J inches. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 345 
 
 But if we suppose with Guglielmini, and which is not improbable, 
 according to actual observation, that the scale of the velocity in a given 
 section is an entire parabola and not a truncated one, the velocity, as 
 in the case of vessels, depending only on pressure, whence the surface 
 alone acquires velocity when it is communicated by the lower water, 
 which transports it; the calculation will then be more quickly effected. 
 Wherefore A C 30 feet, the height of the first river, and F H == 11 
 feet, height of the second. The parabola A E D C = 6829-20 in our 
 table, which, multiplied by the width L, 760 feet, gives for the quan- 
 tity of water 5190192-00, and the parabola F J H= 1516-68, which 
 multiplied by the width M = 139 feet = 210818' 52, whence the sum 
 = 5401010-52, which, divided by the width L, gives, when the velo- 
 city of the surface is not increased, the parabola N Q, P = 7106*59, 
 corresponding to a height of 30 feet 10 inches, corresponding in the 
 table to the number 7118*80, which is rather more than the preceding: 
 wherefore the rise will be 10 inches. 
 
 Then, if the velocity of the two rivers increases at their confluence, 
 the height will be reduced in the reciprocal ratio of that velocity; so 
 that if the velocity be increased .j J 7 , the height will be reduced to 30J 
 feet, that is, the increase will only be about 6 inches ; if the velocity 
 increases ^j, the height will be 29 feet 8 inches ; so that the height, in 
 place of increasing, will actually be reduced about 4 inches by the 
 union of the two streams ; so likewise the height, 30 feet, will remain 
 precisely the same when the velocity is increased by V> smce 37: 
 36 : : 30 feet 10 inches : 30 feet. 
 
 Example 2. The influent C B D R in a given point of its bed has 
 the height H, having a free influx into the recipient R M, when it is 
 low, and its superficial velocit}^ in H is what would correspond to a 
 height A H of four feet, Then, raising the level N S of the recipient, 
 regurgitation follows through the level of the influent. It is required 
 to find the increase in the height H 7 feet? Suppose it to in- 
 crease as far as Q, draw the parabola A K R, with its ordinates H Y, 
 Q K ; let O S, cut off by the prolongation of the level of the recipient, 
 = 3 feet ; the whole height A O will be 11 feet, and by the table the 
 parabola A O R = 151668; the other, A H Y, 4 feet high, will be 
 332*64; whence the trapezium H Y R will be the scale of the velo- 
 city, and the quantity of water passing i-n a given time through the 
 section H = 1184-04. If the parabola S P be 3 feet high, its 
 value in the table = 216-00 ; then by the preceding Prop. XXXVI, 
 
346 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 the parabolic trapezium Q K Y H, being equal to the aforesaid parabo- 
 la S P 0, will be 216*00, which substituted from the total value of 
 A H Y, there remains the parabola A Q K 116*64. This number 
 not being precisely to be found in our table, find the next highest = 
 117*60, which corresponds to a height of 2 feet; whence' we arrive at 
 the conclusion that theregurgitation at the point has raised the water 
 2 feet more than the first, supposed to be 4 feet. 
 
 To facilitate the practical application of the principles contained 
 in Grandi's proposition, the following rules will be found convenient 
 The height and width of the section of both the influent and the 
 recipient being given in each case and their velocity being equal. 
 1. When the velocity of the united streams is the same with that of 
 each separately, to find the increased height of the united section. 
 Find in the table the parabolic value in the third column correspond- 
 ing to the given height of the recipient in the first. Multiply this 
 value by the given width. Perform the same operation for the influ- 
 ent, we shall then have obtained the quantity of water brought down 
 by each. Add these two quantities together. Divide their sum by the 
 width of their united section, which may be either that of therinfluent, 
 or of the recipient, or greater or less than either. Find the quotient 
 obtained by such division in the third column of the table, opposite to 
 it in the first will be found the height of the united sections. 
 2. When the velocity of the united streams is increased to find the 
 height of 'their united section. 
 
 Divide the height found by the preceding rule by the number of 
 times by which the velocity is increased, the quotient is the height of 
 the united sections. 
 
 3. When the velocity of the united streams is diminished, to find the 
 height of their united section. 
 
 Multiply the height found by our first rule by the number of times by 
 which the velocity is diminished, the product gives the required height. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 347 
 
 4. When the height of the united streams remains the same, to find 
 their increased velocity. 
 
 Divide the height as found by the first rule by the original height, 
 the quotient will give the increased velocity. 
 
 5. When the height of the united streams is increased, to find their 
 velocity. 
 
 Divide the height found by the first rule by the increased height, the 
 quotient gives the diminished velocity. 
 
 6. When the height of the united streams is diminished, to find their 
 increased velocity. 
 
 Divide the height found by the first rule by the diminished height, 
 the quotient will be the increased velocity. 
 
 To exemplify these rules, a small table is subjoined, constructed from 
 Grandi's data ; that is, supposing a stream 760 feet wide and 30 feet 
 high to receive successively 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, similar 
 influents. The first column contains the number of influents; the 
 second, the height caused by the addition of these successive streams as 
 calculated by our first rule, that is, supposing the velocity to remain 
 the same ; the third column shows the increased height found by Gen- 
 nete, the original height, 30 feet, being here increased by the addition 
 of T V 5 4 2 8-> A? & c - Tne n ft Q column shows the increased velocity re- 
 quisite to produce the height shown in the third ; thus, supposing a 
 stream 760 feet wide and 30 feet high to receive two other similar 
 strearns, the increased height, accordingUo Gennete will be 30 feet 7,,6 
 inches, and to produce such a height, the required velocity will be 
 ! 97233. Either of these numbers is deducible from the other by one 
 of the preceding rules ; thus, supposing the height 30 feet 7 6 inches 
 to be given, and the velocity to be required, by Rule 5, dividing 62 
 feet 4,.6 inches by 30 feet 7,,6 inches we obtain a quotient of ! 97233. 
 Supposing, on the other hand, the velocity 1.97233 to be given, we 
 obtain the height by rule 2, since 62 feet 4,,6 inches -j- ! 97233 30 
 feet 7, ,6 inches. The fourth column shows the increased velocity re- 
 quired to maintain a constant height of 30 feet, and is found by Rule 4. 
 It is found that the several increments of either height or velocity 
 are as the ordinates of a parabola whose axis is divided into the same 
 number of parts as there are required velocities. Hence an elegant 
 method of finding the intermediate heights or velocities, when the two 
 extremes are given. Suppose, for example, we require to find the 
 several heights indicated in our first column. Find the height required 
 
348 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 30.0. 
 
 47. 7. 6 
 62. 
 
 73.8.0 
 87.8. 
 
 99.1. 0_ 
 109.10.0. 
 
 120.0. 0_ 
 12 9. 9. 0_ 
 
 \ 
 
 \ 
 
 for twelve streams" by our Rule 1. Draw A B, and, from a scale of 
 
 equal parts, set off 157 feet 3 inches from A to C, at A erect a perpen- 
 
 9 dicular A D to A B, and set off 
 
 welve equal parts thereon, and 
 draw through the points 1, 2, 
 3, &c., lines parallel to A B, 
 on the parallel 1 E, set off the 
 first height 30 feet from the 
 same scale as A C. Then by 
 Rule 1 find the height of any 
 one of the intermediate streams, 
 as 6, and set it off from 6 to F, 
 fhen through the points E, F, C, 
 - describe a parabola, the portion 
 cut off on each ordinate by the 
 
 curve will be the several numbers given in the table as measured by the 
 scale from which 1 E, 6 F, and A C, were taken ; the abscissee 1, 2, 3, 
 &c., may be set off by any scale, provided they are equidistant, and ac- 
 cording as they are wider or narrower, will the parabola increase or 
 diminish its curv ? ature. It is evident that in the case of 100 additional 
 streams the labor of calculation will be materially shortened, as no 
 more than three values need ever be found arithmetically. 
 
 In like manner either of the other values shown in our table may be 
 represented parabolically . Column 5, for example, by setting off 
 1-34203 on 1 E, 4-33793 on A B, 3-04897 on 6 F, and describing a 
 parabola through those points. 
 
 148. 5.0. 
 
 1 157. :i. o. 
 
 A 
 
 
 No. of 
 
 Streams. 
 
 Increased Height 
 for a 
 
 Constant Velocity 
 
 Height as given 
 by Gennete. 
 
 Velocity 
 to maintain a 
 Constant Height. 
 
 Velocity 
 to produce 
 Gennete's Height. 
 
 
 
 
 Ft. In. 
 
 Ft, In. 
 
 
 
 
 1 
 
 30,, 0,,0 
 
 30,, 0,,0 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 2 
 
 47,, 7,,6 
 
 30,, 3,,9 
 
 1-58475 
 
 1-34203 
 
 
 
 
 3 
 
 62,, 4,,6 
 
 30,, 7,,6 
 
 2-07916 
 
 1-97233 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 75,, 8,,0 
 
 31,, 3,,0 
 
 2-52222 
 
 2-42133 
 
 
 5 
 
 87,, 8,,0 
 
 31,,10,,6 
 
 2-92222 
 
 2-75032 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 99,, 1,,0 
 
 32,, 6,,() 
 
 3-30277 
 
 3-04897 
 
 
 
 7 
 
 109,,10,,0 
 
 33,, 1,,6 
 
 3-66111 
 
 3-31572 
 
 
 
 8 
 
 120,, 0,,0 
 
 33,, 9,,0 
 
 4-00000 
 
 3-55555 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 129,, 9,,0 
 
 34,, 4,,6 
 
 4-32500 
 
 3-77454 
 
 
 
 10 
 
 139., 2,,0 
 
 35,, 0,,0 
 
 4-63888 
 
 3-97618 
 
 
 
 11 
 
 148,, 5,,0 
 
 35,, 7,,6 
 
 4-94722 
 
 4-66081 
 
 
 
 12 
 
 157,, 3,,0 
 
 36,, 3,,0 
 
 5-23333 
 
 4-33793 
 
 \ 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 349 
 
 No. 25. 
 
 WILLIAM RANGER, ESQ., C.E. 
 
 
 You are a civil engineer, and lecturer on civil engineering 1 at the 
 
 College of Civil Engineers at Putney, and also at the Royal Engineer- 
 ing Establishment at Chatham ? Yes, I am. 
 
 You have also been for a long time in practice as an engineer? Yes, 
 for more than a quarter of a century. 
 
 Have you had experience in the drainage of marshes'? Yes; the 
 commencement of my practice was in the drainage of Pevensey Marsh, 
 and the protection of that marsh from the encroachment of the sea. 
 The drainage of the marshes, in the neighborhood of Worthing, have 
 been under my direction. 
 
 Have you read the evidence which Mr. Austin has given, in relation 
 to the examination he was directed, by the Commissioners, to make, as 
 to the practicability and the expediency of using steam power for the 
 relief of the low-lying marsh districts in Kent and Surrey from sewage 
 and storm water? Yes, I have. 
 
 How far do you agree in the practicability and the expediency of 
 such a mode of relief? I agree in the practicability of the relief by 
 steam power ; I agree also in principle as to its expediency ; I believe 
 it is the only principle on which relief for the district may be obtained; 
 but I have not yet sufficiently considered the detailed arrangements 
 proposed, nor is it necessary to express an opinion upon them. 
 
 Will not the principle of the application of steam power for the 
 purpose, give the advantage of relieving that district, or any similar 
 district, from the necessity of draining directly into the river, or into 
 the river at all ? Certainly. 
 
 Have you read the evidence in relation to the sizes of sewers and 
 house-drains in general use in the several sewer districts in the metro- 
 polis? Yes, I have. 
 
 How far do you concur in the general statements of Mr. Phillips, 
 Mr. Rose, and others on that topic ? There can be no doubt that there 
 can be no more water go out of a house than goes into it, the discharge 
 cannot surpass the supply, and we have the means of ascertaining 
 pretty accurately the supply of rain as of pipe-water, and that these 
 justify no such sizes as are used. 
 
 Will you be so good as to statejyour view as to the possible economy 
 of instruction? The grounds upon which I object to ny extension 
 
350 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 of the present system of conducting drainage works of the metropolis 
 ,are three fold. 
 
 1st. That of the Commissioners proceeding in a mode alike repul- 
 sive to nature and science, 
 
 2d. That of their proceeding with permanent and costly constructions 
 in lieu of acting upon a defined principle. 
 
 3d. The incurring an unnecessary and worse than useless expense, 
 without accomplishing any one of the following objects : 
 
 1st. The securing a perfect drainage from every class of build- 
 ing at a reasonable and bearable cost. 
 
 2d. Efficient drainage maintainable only by a supply and use of 
 water from other sources than those emanating from thejn- 
 terior or roofs of the buildings. 
 
 3d. That of employing a minimum quantity of water to accom- 
 plish a maximum effect ; the object itself being two-fold, 
 viz., to force forward any sediment proper to be admitted into 
 the sewers, and dilute the gases evolved, at least those which 
 are found to be noxious. 
 
 The annexed figure illustrates the progressive increase at present 
 given to pipes, drains and sewers connected with each other, and used 
 in the drainage of courts (where drainage is employed :) 
 
 A, denotes the drop or soil-pipe. 
 
 B, the intermediate drain between A and C. 
 
 C, being the common sewer. 
 ~A, is 3-inch drain. 
 
 B, is 9-inch ditto. 
 
 C, 2 feet 2-inch ditto. 
 
 And the chief, if not the only reason assigned for making B, the inter- 
 mediate drain, 9 inches diameter, is that of preventing its stopping or 
 choking. 
 That the size of the drain tends to prevent its choking, is an errone- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 351 
 
 ous opinion, it having directly a contrary effect ; as is well known to 
 artificers employed from time to time in removing obstructions. 
 
 In a majority of cases, the soil or drop-pipes terminate just within 
 the introdos of the drain, and at right angles thereto, as per annexed 
 figure in section : 
 
 P, Drop-pipe. 
 
 O, denotes the obstructions. 
 
 That obstruction arises from the servants throwing down the water- 
 closets rags and dish-cloths, is beyond dispute, those being the articles 
 found at the position shown in the diagram ; and forming in a nucleus 
 for other substances, which necessarily go on accumulating until the 
 drain is choked. 
 
 Now, if we suppose the drop pipe elongated, so as to reach the 
 sewer with a proper curve in lieu of angles which ought always to be 
 avoided, where it diverges from a vertical, there would not only be no 
 possible chanpe of a stoppage, as there would be no space for a lodg- 
 ment of articles thrown down by the servants, no regurgitation of the 
 waters, but, on the contrary, a constant onward motion under a con- 
 siderable hydraulic pressure a pressure capable of forcing onwards the 
 very substances which are, in so many cases, found lodged in the bot- 
 toms of these intermediate drains; to use the words of Mr. Austin, 
 their u very size is the cause of their being choked." 
 
 From your evidence, it is to be understood that you are of opinion 
 that works of such sizes and descriptions as are now carried out in the 
 several districts, ought not to be allowed to be proceeded with ? There 
 can be no doubt that such works are worse than waste, and will have 
 to be taken up again, and others, upon widely different principles, ap- 
 
352 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 plied. Going 1 on in any one district without a general survey ought 
 not to he permitted, even on the chance of getting right by accident. 
 By the present Building Act, at the instigation of architects, houses 
 and buildings are classed under four separate heads, the test being in 
 the number of squares contained upon plan, one square containing 100 
 superficial feet. 
 
 Thus any house or building containing from 1000 to 1400 square 
 feet in area are called "First rate." From 600 to 1000 square feet ? 
 " Second rate;" from 400 to 600 square feet, "Third rate;" and 
 under 400 square feet, u Fourth rate." 
 
 The sewage in towns may be considered as emanating from three 
 sources : 1st, rain-water from roofs ; 2nd, from yards and areas ; 3rd, 
 water supplied to interior of houses. 
 
 The average quantity of rain falling in England, being taken at 36 
 inches, or "098 inches per day, and the evaporation according to 
 Howard 
 
 
 
 In Winter,.. 0*039 inches per day. 
 
 Spring -090 " 
 
 Summer *125 
 
 Autumn -70 " 
 
 or, In the Winter quarter 3'587 
 
 Spring 8'856 " 
 
 Summer 11'580 " 
 
 Autumn 6'444 " 
 
 But in estimating for drainage of towns, it is thought expedient not 
 to make any deductions for evaporation, mainly in consequence of the 
 yards, areas, &c., of houses being paved and the roofs, in most cases, 
 covered with impervious materials. 
 
 In determining the coefficient in cubic feet per minute from each 
 rate of building, the results of unusual falls of rain have not been adopted, 
 for instance, such as two inches in one hour, for two reasons. First, 
 in cases of an extraordinary fall, the gutters to roofs are capable of 
 holding the excess over an ordinary fall, until it can be passed into and 
 down the stack pipes. 
 
 And I think it would be unwise to increase the sectional areas of the 
 sewers and drains to meet an unusual case : particularly when the 
 doing so would materially increase the aggregate and permanent 
 expense . 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 353 
 
 I should prefer making- chambers in the area at the head of drains 
 to receive any possible excess in quantity beyond that taken in deter- 
 mining the coefficient; such a mode would, I conceive, not only re- 
 duce the expense for the main drains, &c., to a minimum, but would 
 have the effect of assisting the scour of the drains themselves. 
 
 In adopting two inches, as the basis, a difference of opinion may 
 exist, but as it no way affects the principle, and for the reasons already 
 stated, I prefer adhering to that measure. 
 
 According to this view of the subject, we have 
 
 (10 X 12) X (IPX 12) 2 28800 
 1728 X 12 X 60 ~ 1244160 " 
 
 for c, the coefficient in cubic feet per minute, from one square or 100 
 
 superficial feet in area. 
 
 Taking each class of buildings at the greatest allowable area, we 
 
 have 
 
 First rate 14 c = 14 X '023 = 0-323 
 Second rate 10 c = 10 X '023 = 0'230 
 Third rate 6c= 6 X '023 = 0' 138 
 Fourth rate 4 c = 4 X '023 == 0'092 
 
 cubic feet of rain water to be discharged per minute, by drop or stack 
 
 pipes from the roofs of the different rates of buildings. 
 
 If we assume the area of yards, courts, &c., to each rate of building 
 
 in the ratio of 3, 2, 1 and 1. We shall have for the surface water from 
 
 those sources, 
 
 First rate 14x3c=14x3X '023 = '926 
 Second rate 10X2c = 10x2X '023 = '460 
 Third rate 6 X 1 c = 6X1X '023 = '138 
 Third class 4 X 1 c = 4 X 1 X '023 = -092 
 
 And from the combined sources of roofs, areas and yards, &c., 
 
 First rate '323 + -969 =1*292 
 Second rale '230 + -460 = -690 
 Third rate 138 + 138 = = 276 
 Fourth rate '092 + '092 = '184 
 
 Total discharge in cubic feet per minute from each rate of building, 
 exclusive of the quantities from the interior of each rate of building. 
 
354 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Upon the hypothesis that this latter discharge equals the supoly and 
 taking- the supply as follows 
 
 First rate buildings at 800 gallons per day. 
 Second rate 500 
 
 Third rate 200 
 
 Fourth rate " 100 
 
 Then by adopting Professor Cowie's suggestion, viz., that it is more 
 convenient to employ one uniform measure in all calculations relating 
 to one and the same subject, using, in this case, cubic feet in lieu of 
 gallons, we have by reduction : From a 
 
 Second rate 
 
 Third rate 
 Fourth rate 
 
 1728 
 500 X 278 
 
 IZO" /U 
 QC\ A O 
 
 1728 
 200 X 278 
 
 oU 4o 
 32-17 
 
 1.HQ 
 
 1728 
 100 X 278 _ 
 
 1728 
 cubic feet of pipage water from each rate of building per day. 
 
 But as these quantities may be considered as being discharged in the 
 course of two hours out of each day, we have from the 
 
 First rate 1^70-1-07 
 2 X 60 ~~ 
 
 Second rate 8Q ' 43 ^*67 
 2X 60 
 
 - 1 
 Third rate 
 
 2X60 
 
 Fourth rate 16 ' 08 =-13 
 2X60 
 
 cubic feet of discharge per minute from each rate of building. 
 
 The total quantities to be discharged from the three combined 
 sources per minute, in case of rain during two hours each day per 
 minute, will be from 
 
 First rate 1-292 + 1-07 = 2-299 
 
 Second rate -690+ -67= '757 
 Third rate '276 + -26 == *302 
 Fourth rate 184 + 13 = 197 cubic feet. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 355 
 
 In case of a fall of rain for the remaining 1 10 hours of each day, 
 from 
 
 First rate 1'292 
 
 Second rate '690 
 
 Third rate '276 
 
 Fourth rate '184 
 
 cubic feet discharge per minute from roofs, areas, and yards. 
 
 But in estimating the area proper for the sewers and conduits, it will 
 be necessary to adopt the quantities from all the sources ; therefore, the 
 discharge could be affected in two hours, in cases of rain. 
 
 Assuming the area is made in a proper raiio to the quantity, the 
 drains would run full for that period ; and during the remainder of the 
 day, the ratio would be, 
 
 First rate buildings, as T292 : 2'292 
 Second rate " '690 : '751 
 
 Third rate -276 : '302 
 
 Fourth rate '184: '197 
 
 By adopting the area due to the largest quantities, we should have 
 not only sufficient space for running the sewage, but also in nil cases, 
 ample time for running through the several sewers additional waters 
 for scouring, say daily ; although, in cases of rain, the latter means 
 need not be employed. 
 
 Then by adopting the following notation 
 
 c = the co-efficient, or quantity of rain water, in cubic feet, per 
 
 square of 100 superficial feet per minute. 
 s = the squares of roofing, 
 s' the squares of areas, courts, and yards. 
 p= pipeage water per minute in cubic feet. 
 n = number of houses. 
 / = length of street. 
 f= fall of street or sewer. 
 b = breadth of street. 
 s"== squares of road surface. 
 q = quantity to be discharged per minute into the sewer at upper 
 
 end of street. 
 Q. quantity to be discharged in cubic feet per minute at lower end 
 
 of street or outlet of the sewer. 
 D = diameter of the sewer or drain. 
 
 23 
 
 ,,r- 
 f 
 
356 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Then we have 
 
 q=-{c(* + ,r)xZpl (1.) 
 
 Q= <| c (, + .') + (n p) + (*" c y- . . (2.) 
 
 Take an actual case, say that of a street containing one hundred 
 first-rate houses, each having- a 30 feet frontage; width of street 70 
 feet between area fencing; the fall or inclination being 1 in 100: re- 
 quired the diameter proper for the sewer. 
 
 It is proposed, in this example, to depart from the true principles, so 
 far as relates to the uniformity in diameter of the sewer, by making it 
 of one size, not tapering; but of course the equations are applicable to 
 either case. 
 Then / = 30 n = 30 X 50 = 1500 
 
 s" -- lb 1500 X 70 105,000 1Q50> 
 ~ 100 = 100~~ 100 
 
 Q = c == '023 X (s + "14 + 52) + (np = 50 X 1'07) + (*"c = 
 
 1050 X -023 = 253-350, say 254 cubic feet. 
 Then, by Professor Cowie's formula we have 
 
 D = -04547 = 1-046, 
 
 for diameter of sewer and velocity = 4*919. 
 
 Upon the same principle drains for streets of second, third, and fourth- 
 rate houses may be completed ; and the diameters (D) for each of the 
 following cases will be found equal to the numbers given. 
 CASE 2. Consisting of a street of second-rate houses, one hundred 
 in number, each having a frontage of 20 feet; width of street, in clear 
 of area fencing, 50 feet; then, by equation, (2) Q = 148, and D by 
 
 the formula, = -04547 */ Ql = -8429 ; 
 
 / 
 
 The diameter absolutely necessary for draining the street 
 CASE 3. That of a street of third-rate houses, say one hundred in 
 number, each having an 18 feet frontage ; width of street between area 
 fencing 40 feet ; then by applying equation 2, and the formula given 
 by Professor Cowie, as above, we have D = 5957. 
 CASE 4. Is a street of fourth-rate buildings, say one hundred in 
 number, each 16 feet frontage ; width of street 30 feet ; then, by equa- 
 tion 2, and the formula, D = -5282. 
 
 Having ascertained the area due to the sewer in each case at its out- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 357 
 
 let, it may be worth while to consider its form ; and whether, under 
 the actual circumstances, any additional hydraulic depth is obtained by 
 using- an oviform section. Upon the subject itself there is much differ- 
 ence o f opinion. From the excellent evidence of Mr. Phillips, we 
 learn that " in nineteen out of every twenty sewers, the streams are 
 only mere dribbles at any time." 
 
 And, of course, the actual hydraulic depth cannot, in any case, ex- 
 ceed the depth of the running stream; it appears to me, that no ad- 
 vantage whatever, in this respect, can exist in the oviform sewer, so 
 long as the running stream does not equal twice the radius used in de- 
 scribing the lower arc of the oviform . section. Upon examifting the 
 section, it will, I believe, be found exactly the reverse, that is in a cir- 
 cular drain, whose diameter shall be equal to twice the radius employed 
 in describing the lower part of the ovirform sewer, and the running 
 depth of water exceeds the versed sine of the lower arc which, in sec- 
 tion under consideration is 3 inches, and not exceeding 18 inches in 
 depth, there will be a greater hydraulic depth in the circular than in 
 the egg-shaped sewer, and, of course, less friction. 
 It is quite possible, in extreme cases, that there may be some slight 
 advantage in the oviform section, but from all the circumstances with 
 which I am acquainted, this can only take place in one-twentieth of 
 the sewers, for the reasons above stated, as will be evident upon in- 
 specting the section itself, with {he running depth of water marked 
 thereon . 
 
 There is one other question that presents itself, and which, I think, 
 should be considered, irrespective of the defective nature of the mate- 
 rials employed. 
 
 By reducing the sectional area of the several sewers to a ratio due to 
 the stream, and which ought to be done, we necessarily expose the 
 drain or sewer itself to an hydraulic pressure ; this will render it ne- 
 cessary to consider the cohesive powers of the materials, and which 
 would, of course, be considered before determining the thickness of the 
 tubes. It is irrespective of the cohesive power of the materials in them- 
 selves that we ought to bear the subject in mind; as it appears to me, 
 any bonded, much less cementitious masonry, and brickwork, cannot 
 be otherwise considered, is altogether unfit for constructions when em- 
 ployed, as the sewers would be, if systematically laid out in section, 
 &c., to a hydraulic pressure. 
 Independent, therefore, of the objection which I think may reasona- 
 
358 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 bly be urged against cementitious masonry, bricks, in themselves, are 
 not the most suitable materials to be employed ; the absorbing and con- 
 ducting powers, especially the former, is of importance, and this, I 
 find, as the result of some experiments, in the following ratio : 
 
 Fire-bricks absorb moisture by weight. . 500 
 
 Stock bricks. . . 500 
 
 Malm brick .. ,. ,. , , ... 500 
 
 116-0 
 
 Drainage by Engine-power. It is proposed to take the Surrey and 
 Kent districts. These together, according to the report of Mr. Gwilt, 
 contain about 55,000 houses. In the absence of more detailed infor- 
 mation, for the purpose of the following estimate, I have arranged 
 them tinder their several rates, thus : 
 
 First rate. . . ,. 10,000 
 
 Second rate 10,000 
 
 Third rate . 15,000 
 
 Fourth rate 20,000 
 
 
 And for the total drainage, exclusive of roofs and yards, we have, 
 
 (10,000 X 1'07) + (10,000 X -67) + (15,000 X '26) + (20,000 X 
 13) =. 10,700 + 6,700 -f 3,960 + 2,600 = 23,900 cubic feet of pipe- 
 age water per minute, for a period of two hours per day. 
 And from the roofs, yards, &c., according to the progression already 
 named in a former part of this evidence, we have, (10,000 X '969) -J- 
 (10,000 X '460) + (15,000 X '138) + 20,000 X 1'38 = 9,690 + 
 4,600 + 1,575 + 2,760 = 18,620 cube feet per minute, during the fall 
 of rain, equal to 2 inches per twelve hours, neglecting any deduction 
 from evaporation. 
 
 Taking the horse-power equal to raising 3,300 Ibs., or 53*2 cubic, 10 
 feet high per minute, we shall require for the pipeage drainage, 
 
 23,900 451 = horse power, for two hours each day. 
 53-2 
 And for rain-water, upon the foregoing data, 
 
 > = 351 = horse-power during a fall of rain. 
 53-2 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 359 
 
 The total quantity of sewage from 55,000 houses per day of two 
 hours, is equal to 
 
 23,900 X 2 X 60 = 2,868,000 cubic feet. 
 
 According to the reports on the Cornish engines, the estimated cost 
 for raising 10., 000 gallons, or 1,666 cubic feet of water 100 feet high, 
 may be taken at *548 pence, exclusive of interest on outlay for engines, 
 pumps, repairs, machinery, and buildings, but including all other ex- 
 penses. 
 
 1,557,664 = ^^ 
 
 1666 1666 
 
 or 1,433 15s. per annum, for engine-power upon the foregoing basis. 
 On the credit side of the account, we should charge the total amount 
 of the annual cost (money paid at present for clearing out the sewers.) 
 
 But as the whole amount of engine power will only be required in 
 cases of rain, it, is worth while to consider the practicability of making 
 use of the surplus power for procuring and discharging regular currents 
 of water through the drains for the purpose of scouring. 
 
 -Taking the outlay for pumps, engines, &c., at <50,000 3 arid at 8 
 per cent., and apportioning the charges in the following ratio, say, 
 
 First-rate buildings ............ \ 
 
 Second-rate " ............ \ 
 
 Third-rate " ............ J 
 
 Fourth-rate " ...... , ...... 1 
 
 And the charge would be, for 
 
 A first-rate building ........... 2 
 
 Second-rate " ............ 1 
 
 Third-rate si ............ 04 
 
 Fourth-rate u ............ 02 . per annum. 
 
 It is not considered necessary, at this time, to enter into a detailed 
 description of the engine itself, or other works connected therewith, or 
 upon the pumps to be employed, beyond pointing out some of the ad- 
 vantages to be derived from the use of a particular kind, technically 
 called u plungers." The action is the same as that of the common 
 forcing pump, possessing, for the proposed kind of drainage, two very 
 essential advantages. 
 
 First, in lieu of the ordinary piston, which has to be extracted (with- 
 drawn) for repair, the wear being confined to the stuffing box, which is 
 
360 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 in a position to admit of whatever may require being done with great 
 facility and despatch. In fact, as easily as the stuffing box of the en- 
 gine itself. 
 
 The packing consists of a simple gasket of hemp and tallow, seldom 
 wanting to be changed, as it is easily compressed, from time to time, so 
 as to form a perfect contact by the screws. Besides, a renewal of the 
 packing is easily done, not requiring more than two or three men to 
 effect. 
 
 The packing of the plunger is not only a cheaper material than the 
 leather of the boxes, but, from its position, is more durable, lasting a 
 much longer time. 
 
 Experience in these matters cannot fail forcibly to suggest the great 
 advantage to be derived from the use of plungers. The points of dis- 
 charge may be into, towards, or from the river Thames, not, as at 
 present, on the shores of the river immediately in front of much valua- 
 ble property the effect of the present most objectionable points and 
 levels of discharge, to be fully estimated must be seen ; and a visit any 
 day to the shores, say opposite Richmond terrace, nay, every part of 
 the riuer opposite and near where the present sewage has outlets. The 
 numbers, and relative position, appear to ine as follows : 
 In the Westminster district there is a total of about 20 outlets, viz : 
 
 8 above Vauxhall Bridge. 
 
 4 between the latter and Westminster. 
 
 4 between Westminster and Waterloo Bridges. 
 
 1 below Waterloo Bridge. 
 
 3 into the Kensington Canal. 
 
 In the Tower Hamlets districts 
 
 15 open into the Thames. 
 
 4 into the river Lea. 
 
 2 into Limehouse Dock. 
 Being a total of 21 outlets. 
 
 On the Surry side 
 
 19 outlets are shown upon the plan. 
 
 It can hardly be necessary to state that, in the event of the use of 
 engine power, these outlets (even should it turn out that they are in 
 proper places) would be concentrated. 
 
 In case the drainage should take a direction from the Thames, the 
 points of discharge would, of course, be arranged, so as to render the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 361 
 
 sewage of the greatest productive value. This is, however, in itself, a 
 mere matter of detail rather than of principle. 
 
 Whichever mode be adopted for remedying the present defective 
 system or rather mode, for it does not appear to me worthy of the 
 former expression there are no engineering difficulties in the way of 
 carrying out a system upon true principles. 
 
 No. 26. 
 
 JOHN ROE, ESQ. 
 
 Have you read Mr. Austin's evidence in relation to the practicability 
 and expediency of relieving the low and flat districts of the Surrey and 
 Kent division of sewers, by the employment of steam power for pump- 
 ing the sewage and rain water? I have. 
 
 How far do you agree in the practicability and expediency of this 
 mode of relief? I have no doubt of the practicability of relief by steam 
 power ; and if the run of water in the sewers is to have free action at 
 all times, the expediency of adopting that mode of relief is self-evident. 
 
 Will not the principle of the application of steam power for the pur- 
 pose, give the advantage of relieving this, or any similar district, from 
 the necessity of draining directly into the river, or into the river at all] 
 Yes. 
 
 How far do you agree with Mr. Austin, in the plan of converging 
 drains that he proposes, whereby any required amount of fall is 
 obtained throughout the whole system, and thence the practicability 
 of adopting pipe- drains'? The plan of converging drains, suggested by 
 Mr. Austin, for the purpose of adopting pipe-drains in lieu of sewers, I 
 consider to be one that may be used to great advantage. 
 
 You believe that, if a sufficient fall can be insured in every drain by 
 such a system, and with a supply of water, the drainage may be made 
 perfect? I do. 
 
 What is your opinion as to the comparative cost of this system, and 
 the present one pursued in the Surrey and Kent district ? My opinion 
 as to the comparative cost of this system of pipe-drains, and the existing 
 system of brick-sewers to complete the drainage of the lowland portion 
 of the Surrey and Kent district, is, that Mr. Austin has not overrated 
 the pecuniary advantage of the one over the other. 
 
362 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You have stated your opinion as to the superior efficiency of this 
 system. In order to complete the sewerage of the low part of the Sur- 
 rey and Kent district, so that every street and house should be properly 
 drained, which do you consider would be the preferable course, even 
 as a question of ultimate economy, the adoption of this system, or the 
 extension of the present? The adoption of this system would be the 
 preferable course, in my opinion. 
 
 Do you agree with Mr. Austin as to the size of drains required for 
 houses? I do ; if those drains are to be constructed under the control 
 of the Commissioners' officers to secure a proper material and inclina- 
 tion. A 4-inch drain, with an inclination of 1 inch in 10 feet, would 
 discharge all the water produced by a fall of 2 inches depth of drain in 
 one hour upon a first-rate house, with more area for gardens, &c,, than 
 is usually allowed. But, in almost every instance, an inclination of 2 
 inches in 10 feet may be obtained, and 3 or 4 inches in 10 feet in 
 numerous cases; yet, even where this opportunity has presented itself, 
 the builders have not availed themselves of it, but have carried the 
 drain nearly on a level from the back to the front of the house, and 
 connected it with the sewer by a fall of several feet in a short length in 
 the street ; no wonder, therefore, that 9 or 12, or 15-inch drains choke 
 up under such circumstances. I knew an instance of a 9-inch brick 
 drain to a house, in a square in Islington, becoming so offensive from 
 foul deposit lodging therein in less than two years after the house was 
 built, that the family were under the necessity of leaving; upon which 
 the owner caused the brick drain to be taken up, and a pipe-drain to be 
 laid down ; since which time (about three years) no complaint has been 
 made. In January, 1842, Mr. Chadwick suggested to me the propriety 
 of trying tubular drains, as he considered they would be beneficial and 
 economical in drainage generally, and requested me to try the making 
 of several sorts, to ascertain the cost and efficiency. Accordingly, I 
 caused experiments to be made in the burning of common clay, to 
 define the thickness of rim that could be obtained without artificial 
 drying. I also tried the making tubular pipes with cement, and 
 various articles mixed therewith, specimens of which may be seen a^ 
 the Sewers' Office, Hatton-garden ; and the first glazed stone-ware 
 pipes for drainage made in the Metropolis, (or elsewhere, I believe) 
 were formed from my instructions, in consequence of Mr. Chadwick's 
 desire to obtain a smooth surface for tubular drains. From the time 
 of the first experiments I have recommended tubular pipes for drainage 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 363 
 
 to builders, and since then, Mr. Dennis, of the Caledonian-road, Battle- 
 bridge, has manufactured them in cement, and is probably the first 
 person in London who has used them systematically for the drainage 
 of whole streets. There was evidence subsequently given, in the Re- 
 port of the Health of Towns Commission, (1844) tending to confirm the 
 justness of Mr. Chadwick's idea, as to the pecuniary saving to be 
 effected by the use of tubular drains. As regards their efficiency, I 
 have not the slightest doubt. I know instances of 3-inch iron pipes 
 put in 15 years since for house-drains, of which no complaint has yet 
 been made and, in one case s the drain is upwards of 100 feet in 
 length ; and glazed stone-ware pipes, well made, are equal to iron for 
 passing drainage. 
 
 If you were a steward, or responsible adviser of any landlord requiring 
 to drain such a district, would you, either on the score of efficiency or 
 ultimate economy, consider it right to go on with the present works'? 
 I have already expressed my opinion of the propriety of withholding 
 the construction of new works, until a complete survey and levels of 
 the metropolis shall have been taken ; on the plan formed from such 
 survey the length, cross-section and level of every existing sewer should 
 be marked. From these sources of information, a well-digested and 
 comprehensive plan of drainage for both sides of the river should be 
 formed, before any but works of necessity are performed. In the mean 
 time, for the preservation of -health, during this necessary delay of 
 works, e^ery sewer through which a man can pass, whether on the 
 north south bank of the river, could be kept free from foul deposit 
 by flushing with the water that accumulates in, or passes through the 
 sewers. And the smaller sewers may be similarly benefitted by having 
 an extra supply of water judiciously used. 
 
 No. 27. 
 REV. MORGAN COWIE, M. A. 
 
 You are, as we are well aware, the Principal of the College of Civil 
 Engineers, Putney 7 Yes. 
 
 The Commissioners were informed that you had paid especial atten- 
 tion to the science of hydraulics, as connected with engineering ? Yes 
 I have. Hydraulics does not form part of the regular course of mathe- 
 matical instruction in which I had been engaged, previously to my ap- 
 
364 MINUTES or EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 pointrnent at Putney. The results of hydraulics depend, indeed, more 
 upon experiment than upon theory. I was thus obliged, on being 
 appointed, to give considerable time and attention to this subject, and 
 to the experience of foreign engineers, French and German. 
 
 The Commissioners were desirous that you should see some of the 
 evidence which they have receired on proposed applications of hydrau- 
 lic science to the improvement of the sewerage and drainage of towns, 
 particularly that given by Mr. Roe, Mr. Phillips, and Mr. Cresy. 
 Have you read it? Yes, I have. 
 
 Will you favor them with some observations upon the evidence ? 
 The former inquiries appeared to me to point out clearly the evils of 
 the existing practices. I would observe generally on the results of the 
 investigations which I have had an opportunity of considering, that 
 their promulgation will be of very high public importance, as they will 
 promote a considerable and extensive advance in hydraulic science, 
 and constitute the first great practical step towards the remedy of the 
 evil of the defective drainage of our towns. 
 
 I will first observe upon the evidence of Mr. Phillips, which I think 
 highly important. 
 
 I have read this evidence with peculiar pleasure ; though Mr. Phillips 
 disclaims being a scientific man, he shows that he is well acquainted 
 with the scientific authorities on this subject. The cases he discusses 
 are extremely well explained, and the principles he employs, even 
 where he disagrees with scientific writers, are, for the most part, stated 
 with accuracy and distinctness. 
 
 I have the honor to subjoin several remarks which occur to me 
 relating to this inquiry : 
 
 1. As to gauging. 
 
 2. As to the velocity with which fluids will discharge themselves 
 in pipes not kept constantly full, with different inclinations. 
 
 3. As to the capacity necessary for receiving and carrying off 
 united streams. 
 
 4. As to the nature of the substance of the channel ; what 
 influence it has on velocity. 
 
 1. The gauging. 
 
 Complaints are made that the formulas investigated by mathemati- 
 cians and others, do not give accurate results. I should ask, in reply : 
 1st. How the accuracy is tested ? 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 365 
 
 I 
 
 2d. How was the experiment made for finding the data required in 
 the formulae ? 
 
 Mr. Phillips gives correctly the rules adopted (not from theory, though 
 by mathematicians, but from experiment) for determining the mean 
 velocity when the surface velocity is known, except in the case of M. 
 Prony's formulae, for finding the mean velocity (v) from the surface 
 velocity (V). 
 
 V-f 2-37. 
 v=Vy _|_ Qi5 1Q metres - 
 
 or in feet, 
 
 V-f 7-776 
 r ~y ^fToT335 ; 
 
 in small velocities it would not be safe to take an approximation to 
 this rule. 
 
 The method given of finding the surface velocity is very rough, and 
 depends for its. accuracy entirely on the dexterity of the observer. 
 Several methods of finding velocities of currents are in use, but all are 
 defective in some point or other ; Woltman's Tachometer, or Hydro- 
 metric mill, is the best. But in the case of sewage water, there may 
 be difficulty in applying these rules. I therefore think Mr. Phillips 
 has stated wisely, that the best plan is to gauge directly by barring the 
 channel, making an aperture of given breadth, and then calculating 
 the velocity of the current from the ascertained discharge in a given 
 time. Here, however, Mr. Phillips has unfortunately applied the for- 
 mula, relating to waters discharged from a still reservoir, arid not to 
 waters arriving at the aperture with a given velocity. 
 The proper plan, on his own method, would be this : bar the whole 
 section by boarding it; Jet a rectangular slit be made whose breadth is 
 in feet ( I ), and the height through which the water flows (H) ; let the 
 breadth be small, compared with the breadth of the section, then the 
 number of cubic feet discharged = f (I H ^/ H ) X 4-813. So that by 
 noting H, as Mr. Phillips proposes, we could find the quantity of 
 water . 
 
 The more accurate formula would require us to know (v) the mean 
 velocity of the water ; but this will have little influence unless (v ) is 
 considerable. Taking it into consideration, the quantity discharged in 
 one second in cubic feet, would be, 
 
 |(5-3)IH N /H + 
 
 or 
 
366 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 (3'5)ZHVH+ '035 v 2 . 
 
 In all cases where the formulae are to be applied to large masses of 
 water, I should give more close and accurate values to the co-efficients, 
 continuing them to several decimal places. 
 
 The present formulae are derived from very accurate experiments 
 made by M. Castel, Engineer of the Etablissement des Eaux at Tou- 
 louse. 
 
 Mr. Roe finds that Mr. Hawksley's tables, calculated, as I suppose, 
 from his formula, give incorrect results. The formula in question, is 
 for velocity of water through a tube of considerable diameter. 
 
 ~d 
 
 ^ = velocity in yards. 
 
 h = head of water in inches. 
 
 I = length of pipe in yards. 
 
 d = diameter of pipe in inches. 
 
 This reduced to the form where all the dimensions are given in feet, 
 would be, 
 
 v = 48-01 / ^A 
 
 M. Poncelet gives a formula, investigated, I believe, by Navier, and 
 which, when applied abroad, has given very accurate results, of which 
 the following is the expression in English feet : 
 
 v = 47-95 / h A- 
 
 V J + 54d. 
 
 This differs from Mr. Hawksley's, by such very small quantities, that 
 I conclude both to be the same, and therefore that Mr. Hawksley's is 
 correct, when correctly applied. Poncelet's formula gives very cor- 
 rectly the quantity of water which is furnished to the town of Metz 
 from Scy, and therefore should not be at fault elsewhere ; by the form- 
 ula, the quantity of water delivered under a constant pressure at Metz 
 in 24 hours, was calculated to be 262-656 c. M., and was found to be 
 accurate within 2 or 3 cubic metres ; in all these cases the tube is sup- 
 posed to be constantly full. 
 2. As to velocity. 
 In an open canal, the mean velocity being (v) in feet. 
 
 c, the wet contour. 
 
 s, the area of a section of the fluid. 
 
 5 
 
 - , is the hydraulic mean depth. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 367 
 
 g, the force of gravity. 
 
 sin i = sine of angle of inclination. 
 
 g sin i = -0035855 (v 2 + -02028^). 
 s 
 
 These constants have been determined by Eytelwein from experi- 
 ments made on 91 canals and rivers, involving considerable variation 
 of velocity and magnitude of section ; and this is the accurate formula, 
 from which the approximate common rule (of taking J J of the mean 
 proportional between the hydraulic mean depth and the fall in two 
 miles) is derived. 
 
 This law connects the inclination with the velocity ; and if the latter 
 term be not neglected (which it generally is, to avoid trouble,) I feel 
 confident it will give accurate results. It tells us at once what inclina- 
 tion we must have to secure a given mean velocity. I should observe, 
 however, that this inclination is the inclination of the surface of the 
 fluid, not of the bottom of the canal or tube. Eytelwein's great dis- 
 covery was, that the velocity was independent of the latter inclination, 
 and only depended on the inclination of the surface of the fluid in the 
 case of canals arid rivers. 
 
 It is still, however, desirable to know how this formula is modified 
 by the specific gravity of the fluid. I am not aware that any experi- 
 ments have been made to ascertain how it would be modified, at least, 
 in the case of large tubes. The Chevalier Du Buat, in tubes of small 
 diameter, found that dirty water would not flow so fast as rain water, 
 which we should have expected ; but the diameter of his tube was so 
 small, (five lignes,) that the results obtained are not sufficiently prac- 
 tical to guide us in this matter. 
 
 Mr. Phillips has calculated, by a formula which only agrees approx- 
 imately with the true one, what velocity will be given by one of his 
 egg-shaped sewers, of given dimensions, and given inclination, kept 
 constantly full, and he finds that experience shows a much larger velo- 
 city ; for he says that he has known larger areas drained by smaller 
 conduits ; so that he concludes, " Absurdly large as practice demon- 
 strates the present sewers to be, the theories would make them larger." 
 
 I think Mr. Phillips has not sufficiently considered the case. 
 
 The formula he calculates from refers to a canal conveying con- 
 stantly the same body of water, and at the same velocity from one end 
 to the other, and does not contemplate the constant addition of quan- 
 tities of water, arriving with various velocities. 
 
368 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The formula applies to a case like this. 
 
 The sewer B, leading from a reservoir A, where the height does not 
 vary,, to an outlet C. 
 
 The case he tests the formula by, is like the figure above ; one main 
 sewer, from A. to B. and C., receiving in its course a number of smaller 
 sewers, down which the water will rush from the upper surface with 
 various velocities, increasing as we proceed from F. towards E. In 
 all these cases, the velocity of the water passing on from B. to C. will 
 be increased. The water coming down A. C. and E. C. will have 
 fallen through the same vertical height, and if it had fallen freely 
 would have the same velocity, but the water down A. C. has been re- 
 tarded by the friction along A. C., and that down E. C. by the fric- 
 tion along E. C. ; the former retardation will be greater than the latter, 
 and therefore velocity less in the former than in the latter case. So 
 that we not only have the velocity in A. C. variable (which is sup- 
 posed in the formula to be uniform,) but continued additions of masses 
 of water with different velocities. It is clear, therefore, that the motion 
 in A. B. C. cannot be uniform^ and therefore, that he has applied the 
 formula to a case where it does not apply properly. 
 The reason, then, why Mr. Phillips finds theory at variance with 
 practice, is this: The velocity in the sewer will not be uniform, be- 
 cause the stream receives constant accessions, moviug with different 
 velocities. 
 
 I would calculate in the following way : 
 Suppose a sewer 5 miles long, with a fall from one end to the other 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 369 
 
 of 200 feet, i. e., a fall of 40 feet per mile, and suppose it to receive 
 additions of water at every half mile by sewers of given'dimensions, 
 the water coming 1 down these sewers will have fallen through 20, 40 
 60, 80, &c., feet ; and I should calculate the velocity with which each 
 feeding- sewer would bring its tributary waters into the main sewer, and 
 calculate the continual acceleration, and so find at last the velocity 
 at the outlet. 
 
 It is true, that the mean velocity is uniform, when the resistance aris- 
 ing from the friction of the channel is equal to the accelerating force 
 which gives it motion. JBut if the accelerating force is greater than 
 the resistance arising from friction, the mean velocity is not uniform, 
 but accelerated, and we shall have a constantly increasing mean velo- 
 city from the head of the sewer to the outlet. I apprehend this is the 
 case in practice . Not having Mr. Roe's guagings I cannot tell 
 whether or no he has found an increasing mean velocity towards the 
 outlet, but the facts would authorize one to say that it must be so. 
 Eytelwein's formula is inapplicable to this case. It refers only to 
 an open canal, where the mean velocity is uniform from the canal head 
 to the outlet. 
 
 I would further suggest that in estimating the quantity of water to 
 be drained over a given surface, no allowance is made for evaporation ; 
 .so that the quantity of water being less than that which Mr. Phillips 
 calculates would drain away, it is not surprising that he found smaller 
 drains than those he calculated, carrying off the surface waters of a 
 larger district. The evaporation must be very considerable in summer: 
 but I cannot refer to any tables which give us the quantity of rain 
 water which, in the course of the year, will be returned to the atmos- 
 phere in this manner. 
 
 In general, in short drains or sewers it will be inconvenient to vary 
 the calibre ; in that case, we must calculate the necessary size of the 
 outlet from the following formula, which I dare say agrees with Mr. 
 Hawksley's, but which is taken from M. Morin's Aide Memoire de 
 Mecanique Pratique : 
 
 Q = cubic feet to be discharged per minute. 
 / = length of sewer. 
 
 f= fall in the length (/). All expressed in feet. 
 D = diameter of the sewer in feet. 
 D = 04547^/Q 2 ^_ 
 7 
 
370 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 This will give an accurate result in all cases where the velocity 
 f which = '0212 jy 2 j is not less than 2 feet per second . 
 
 3. It is*a well-known principle in hydraulics, that if a tube be kept 
 constantly full, the velocity will adjust itself so as to be inversely as 
 the area of the section. 
 
 If, therefore, one end of a tube be open, there cannot be any neces- 
 sity for enlarging it as it receives tributary streams in^proportion to the 
 sections of those streams. All that would be necessary would be to 
 take care that the section was so large towards its extremity that the 
 fluid should not attain a velocity which would injure the structure ; and 
 having given the maximum quantity of water to be conveyed by the 
 sewer, we should see that the outlet size was large enough to convey 
 this quantity with convenient velocity, and then gradually, (at junc- 
 tions where the tributary waters are considerable,) reduce the section 
 of the drain, proceeding upwards from the outlet. But if the final ve- 
 locity were such as not to injure the work, or dam up the waters in 
 small tributaries, I see no reason to increase the section from u;e end 
 to the other of the ramified system. 
 
 If we could secure a constantly full sewer, discharging itsel above 
 high-water level, it would prevent the evolution of noxious ga: s to a 
 considerable extent. 
 
 The scouring power of water is very great. I believe Mr. Hopkins, 
 of Cambridge, has calculated it to be as the seventh power of the velo- 
 city, but I quote fronrmemory. 
 
 4. I am rather inclined to think, from general considerations, that 
 the influence of the material of the channel, on the velocity, would be 
 small. In most cases the tube, gets lined, as it were, with a film of the 
 fluid, which remains stationary, or nearly so, and in that case the only 
 friction is the fluid rubbing against itself, the moving fluid against the 
 stationary fluid. Mr. Roe has made experiments on this subject, which 
 show a greater difference than I had anticipated in favor of glazed 
 tubes; and it probably may be the case, that in "mere dribbles," as 
 the streams are in many cases, the glazed tubes would have an advan- 
 tage, because of their allowing no percolation or absorption. 
 
 >But further experiments on such a point would be highly interesting 
 and useful, as well as those referred to above, on the rate of flow of 
 fluids of different specific gravities. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 371 
 
 No. 28. 
 Mr. Alderman MUSGROVE and JOHN WILLIAM UNWIX. 
 
 (To Mr. Unwin.) You are clerk to the Tower Hamlets division of 
 sewers 1 Yes, I am. 
 
 Have you perused the evidence of your surveyor, Mr. Beck? I have 
 just had an opportunity of doing so. 
 
 You are aware of the general tenor of it? Yes. 
 
 Are there any comments which you are desirous of making upon 
 that evidence ? I am not aware that there are. I should say certainly 
 that I agree with him in thinking that the sewerage and drainage of 
 the district of the Tower Hamlets is in a very improving state. Every 
 year we have been going on increasing our sewers, and also extending 
 the outlets, and the number of communications has increased very con- 
 siderably. In consequence of a suggestion from one of the Commis- 
 sioners, I have prepared a statement, showing the number of feet of 
 sewer executed, and also the number of drains communicating with 
 the sewers, and the number of drains communicating with the sewers 
 of the Tower Hamlets generally since the year 1838. In the year 1838 
 we extended our sewers 5555 feet; there were only two drains commu- 
 nicating with that extent of sewerage ; the entire communications 
 throughout the district in that year were only 31. In the y -ar 1839 
 there were 2137 feet of sewers constructed ; there were 27 persons 
 communicating with them ; and the total communications in that year 
 were 80. In the year 1840 there were extended 8577 feet of sewer ; 
 there were 50 persons communicating with such extension, and^ the 
 total number of communications in that year was 84. In the year 
 1841 there were 13,841 feet of sewer; 58 persons communicated with 
 the sewers so extended, and there were 110 communications through- 
 out the district. In 1842 there were 5541 feet extended ; there were 
 103 persons communicated, and there were 152 throughout the district. 
 In the year 1843 there were 4054 feet of sewer extended ; there were 
 70 persons communicated with that additional extent of sewerage, and 
 throughout the district there were 122 communications. In 1844 there 
 were 3587 feet of sewer extended ; 54 persons communicated with 
 such additional sewer, and there were 104 communications throughout 
 the district. In the year 1845 there were 13,402 feet of sewer extend- 
 ed ; there were 96 persons who communicated with it, and throughout 
 the district there were 140. In the year 1846 there were 6522 feet of 
 24 
 
372 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 sewer extended; 125 persons communicated, and there were 178 
 throughout the district. In 1847 there were 13,170 feet of sewer ex- 
 tended ; there were 165 persons communicated, and 182 communica- 
 tions throughout the whole district. In addition to that I should also 
 mention what is stated in Mr. Beck's evidence, that the amount of 
 sewerage that has been arched over has been so great that there has 
 been none left to be arched over. 
 
 You have stated that that is the additional amount made since 1837 ; 
 how much of that is entirely new, and how much merely drains 
 arched over ? The whole of that which I have mentioned is new. 
 
 What, in your opinion, is the reason why so few people have sought 
 to run private drains to the sewers? I always thought this was the 
 reason. Generally speaking those houses are let for a term of years ; 
 the tenant says, " Why should I go to the expense of making a drain 
 for the benefit of my landlord?" The landlord says, on the other 
 hand, " Why should I go to an expense to create a benefit for my ten- 
 ant, when I shall not have the reversion beyond the next twenty years 
 perhaps!" 
 
 What is the charge for making- a communication from a private house 
 to a sewer ? There is no charge whatever, except for the first three 
 feet, which we do ourselves ; we do it in cement, and our contractor 
 receives the sum of 17s. 
 
 Is the party confined in making his communication to any particular 
 size? The first three feet is always twelve inches. 
 
 Do you confine a proprietor or occupier of a house to any particular 
 size in making his communication with your sewer ? I can hardly 
 answer that question; it is more the province of the surveyor. 
 
 Do you think that if that expense were to be spread over many 
 years, it would be more willingly incurred by the party interested ? 
 I should think it might ; or if there were a power given to the Com- 
 missioners to compel the landlord and the tenant to join between them, 
 apportioning the expense between them in any way which might be 
 considered equitable ; that might have a tendency to increase the num- 
 ber of communications. 
 
 Are the Commissioners able to allow the expense to be apportioned 
 over several years, or must they compel the person to pay immediately 
 the 17s., or whatever the charge may be? They must compel the 
 person to pay the 17s. immediately. He is never allowed to take the 
 order out of the office without. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 373 
 
 In the extension of sewers, which has been made during the last 
 eight years, who paid for them? They have been paid for out of the 
 rates ; but in some instances there have been contributions. 
 
 What is your practice in that respect 1 We are, generally speaking, 
 governed by circumstances. When there is a sewer to be constructed, 
 which is very beneficial to an individual, and which we consider more 
 beneficial to him than to the public, we take a contribution from him. 
 The highest contribution I have ever known was only two -thirds. 
 
 How do you proceed in such cases'? Generally speaking, an indi- 
 vidual comes to the Commissioners : he says, " I require a sewer to be 
 constructed up a certain street, the whole of it being my property." 
 The Commissioners say, "It will be of some benefit to the public no 
 doubt, but it will be of far more benefit to you ; in that case, therefore, 
 they expect you will contribute." In the case I refer to, of Duncan 
 street, Whitechapel, the cost of the sewer, I believe, was about 120/., 
 of which the applicant contributed the sum of 80/. 
 
 Are you in the habit of collecting the rates in the immediate district 
 in which a sewer is made to pay for the works which you do ; or do 
 you collect them all over the district, first in one part of it and then in 
 another, according as the last contribution has been made? We are 
 tied down to a division of the district, which is called levels, in conse- 
 quence of a decision of the Court of Queen's Bench. Therefore, we 
 can only make the inhabitants of a particular level contribute to the 
 maintenance and improvement of the drainage of that level. There- 
 fore, sometimes some levels contribute and others not. . 
 
 In short, the collection of the sewer rate has no reference whatever 
 to the locality which has had the benefit of the work? The Commis- 
 sioners, in extending the drainage in any locality, consider that they 
 benefit the whole level. 
 
 The whole of the Tower Hamlets district is not in your division, is 
 it? No, it is not. In the first place, Poplar and Blackwall Marsh are 
 excluded ; St. Katherine's also is excluded ; and there is a portion of 
 the parish of Bromley, which is called Bromley Marsh Level, that is 
 excluded. The parish of Shoreditch is in the Holborn and Finsbury 
 district of sewers, though it is in the Tower Hamlets division for every 
 thing else. 
 
 Are you masters of your own outfall entirely? Entirely. 
 
 So that it would be a matter of indifference to you whether those 
 exceptions you have mentioned should be thrown into your district or 
 
374 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 not? I will not say that. With submission, I think it would be a 
 considerable advantage. I have heard many of the Commissioners 
 express the opinion, that if we could carry an outlet through Black- 
 wall, it would be beneficial. 
 
 Why ? We should get a more rapid exit to the Thames. 
 
 Would the outlet be better? I should think so. I do not know it 
 practically, but it would go more directly into the river, no doubt. 
 
 Do the householders contribute nothing more than the 17s. you men- 
 tion ? have they not any thing to pay for joining the actual drain? 
 Nothing is paid by them except the actual cost of the drain, and of that 
 we lake 17s. for the portion we do. 
 
 Do you allow more than one house to drain through one communi- 
 cation into the sewer? Yes. 
 
 How many should you allow ? I am afraid that is a question rather 
 for the surveyor than for me, but I believe the notion of the Commis- 
 sioners is this, that it is not desirable that the sewer should be too often 
 broken into; therefore, when we can make one drain serve for several 
 houses, it is thought desirable to do so. 
 
 With respect to the houses you have drained, have you had any 
 complaints from them of the stoppage up of the drains ? No. 
 
 Nor complaints of smell arising from the drains? Very seldom ; I 
 will not say we never have, but very seldom. 
 
 Do you think that such complaints are numerous in relation to the 
 number of houses which have drains? I think not. 
 
 Your Commission is under the statute of Henry VIII. , is it not? 
 And the statute of the 2d and 3d William and Mary, which has refer- 
 ence to the city of London, and also to (he out parishes of London in 
 Middlesex. 
 
 Is that the general statute ? No ; the general statute is the 23d of 
 Henry VIII., which extends throughout the whole realm. The 2d 
 and 3d of William and Mary extends to the city of London and the 
 out parishes. 
 
 All your Commissioners are appointed, of course, by the Lord Chan- 
 cellor ? Yes . 
 
 What are the powers that you find deficient in those acts. What are 
 the powers which you would propose to apply to Parliament for ? I 
 should like to defer answering that question till I have got before me 
 on paper the provisions of the bill that we are about to apply for. I 
 certainly think we should have the powers which are given to the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 375 
 
 Commissioners in Westminster. Among others, I should ask for a 
 much more summary power of removing nuisances and encroachments 
 upon the sewers, something very analagous to the power possessed by 
 Justices of the Peace, in summoning the party before us, and ordering 
 him to remove the nuisance. I took the liberty of making a sug- 
 gestion of that kind to the Commissioners on the Health of Towns. 
 
 What sort of nuisances or encroachment do you refer to 1 Stoppages 
 in the sewers, or in any way building 1 over them. At present they 
 cannot be removed without the intervention of a jury. 
 
 It is in fact simply to remove the cumbersomeness of the present 
 process, occasioned by the intervention of a jury? Yes. 
 
 What other alterations do you propose ? I should rather prefer get- 
 ting the bill drawn out before I answer that question. 
 
 What are the main defects which you find in the working of the 
 statutes, under which you now proceed 1 I should think a very great 
 improvement would be, that which would allow us, in making a pre- 
 sentment, to avoid presenting the party by name. I think we should 
 have a power to compel the vestry clerk to give us a copy of the poor 
 rates. We should also have the power, I think, to compel landlords 
 of small houses to compound. I think, also, we should have the power 
 which other public Boards have ; that that no one should commence an 
 action, without giving us notice of action. 
 
 Those are the general powers which you seek ? Yes. 
 
 Have you paid collectors to collect the rates ? Yes. 
 
 Are they collectors who give their whole time to it, or are they in 
 trade ? Some of them are in trade, and some of them are collectors of 
 other rates. The remuneration they get from us would not be suffici- 
 ent support for them. We pay them a poundage of 8d. in the pound. 
 
 How often do you collect the rates'? About once in three years, 
 upon the average. 
 
 Have you not had complaints of practical inconveniences arising from 
 that mode of collection of the rates at long intervals? I do not think 
 so. W r e generally get our rates in within a twelvemonth. 
 
 With that state of property which you describe as being much held 
 by lessees and persons with limited ownership, must not the rate, at 
 times, fall very heavily upon those persons 1 I think it must do so. 
 
 Do you know the number of houses in your district? 1 do not re- 
 member, at this moment. 
 
 Do you know what proportion of the houses communicate with sew- 
 ers ? A very small proportion, indeed. 
 
376 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You have not the paving district under your jurisdiction, have you 1 
 No. 
 
 What is your opinion of the paving district and the sewers being con- 
 solidated ? I am afraid, that in so large a district as the Tower Ham- 
 lets, the burthen would be too heavy for one set of Commissioners. 
 The district consists of twenty-one parishes, and in those twenty-one 
 parishes there is every description of property that can be mentioned. 
 
 How many different Paving, Boards are there in your district? I do 
 not know. 
 
 Where is the outfall of your sewers'? They are all into the river 
 Thames and into the river Lea. 
 
 Lower down than Blackwalll No. Between Blackwall and St. 
 Katharine's Docks. 
 
 Irito the Irongate sewer ? Yes ; that belongs to us. It is one of our 
 principal outfalls. 
 
 In case an owner of houses, in a court or alley, requires any house to 
 be drained, has he, in addition to the notice to you, to give notice to 
 the Commissioners of Pavements? He must get permission from the 
 Commissioners of Pavements. 
 
 Has he any fees to pay to the Commissioners of Pavements? -I do 
 not know. 
 
 The Commissioners of Pavements make their own charge for laying 
 down the pavement, do not I hey ? They make their own charge to 
 us when we take up the sewers, but we thought, upon one occasion, 
 we were overcharged. I was desired to write a circular letter to all the 
 Paving Boards in our district, and we have since been charged only 
 the contract prices. 
 
 Cannot you inform the Commissioners how many Boards there are? 
 I believe that there are fifteen. 
 
 Is the lighting under your jurisdiction? No. 
 
 What is your opinion of consolidating the lighting also with the 
 paving? I think the principle is very good if it did not impose too 
 heavy a burthen upon the Board. 
 
 Would not that depend upon the times of meeting of the Board ? 
 I think the duty would be too extensive for any one Board to perform. 
 Only think of what must be the municipal business of twenty-one 
 parishes. 
 
 Compare it with the whole city of London ? In the city of London 
 the streets are all made and paved. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 377 
 
 
 
 Compare it with the Westminster district of sewers, which is larger 
 than all the rest upon the north side of the Metropolis put together, 
 and the property more various'? But the Westminster Commissioners 
 of Sewers have nothing to do with paving or drainage. 
 
 It is the opinion of their officers, that the consolidation will greatly 
 facilitate their business 1 I have already given my opinion on the 
 subject. 
 
 Mr. Alderman Musgrove. I quite think it would facilitate the busi- 
 ness of the Commissioners of Sewers if the departments of lighting and 
 paving were consolidated with it. Might I also be permitted to add a 
 few words to what Mr. Unwin has stated with reference to the powers 
 sought to be obtained by the Commissioners, under the proposed Bill. 
 They are much more extensive than has been adverted to, I think ; for 
 instance, some of the powers which are sought for would enable the 
 Commissioners to make an annual rate. They would, also, be desirous 
 of having the power to make sewers in private courts and alleys in 
 crowded districts^ and to compel the landlords to pay for the construc- 
 tion of those sewers, in case of their refusal to do so. They would, 
 also, seek power to remove stagnant pools of water, and every offensive 
 matter upon private property ; that is to say, to compel the owner of 
 such property, within a limited period, to remove it ; and, in case of 
 his not doing so, that the Commissioners should be able to do it, and 
 charge him with the expense of doing it. 
 
 Have you been long in connexion with the Commissioners of sew- 
 ers 1 I have been connected with the Commission for many years. I 
 have been chairman only during the last two years. 
 
 You probably have observed the working of the combination of sew- 
 age and paving, which exists under the Corporation of the city of Lon- 
 don 1 I have. I am a member of that Commission. 
 
 Making a comparison of the working of the united Commission, are 
 you of opinion, from your observation and experience, that a similar 
 consolidation would be of advantage to the Tower Hamlets division ? 
 It would be much more laborious in the Tower Hamlets division, but I 
 am sure it would be to the advantage of the public if it were prac- 
 ticable. 
 
 Do not you think, with respect to the extra labor, that by a judicious 
 distribution among well-qualified paid officers any increase of duty 
 might be advantageously metl Yes. 
 
 In your experience, as chairman of the Tower Hamlets division, the 
 
378 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 
 
 Commissioners may probably assume that you have observed difficul- 
 ties to occur in respect to the area of the drainage not being", perhaps, 
 conformable to the natural level of drainage, which would imply a 
 power over the outfall of the places drained 1 We have had conside- 
 rable difficulty. I believe it has been the practice of the Commission- 
 ers, in every instance, where it has been possible, to remove those diffi- 
 culties. I have an instance now where we shall be enabled, I think, 
 to remove an obstruction, to the extent of eleven feet, in the neighbor- 
 hood of Hackney-Wick, upon the very spot where there was a report 
 of two children having died from the effluvia of the sewer, which I 
 may take this opportunity of saying was not from the sewer, and also 
 that the Commissioners of Sewers have no control over it at all. By 
 the proposed arraagement, we shall be able to obviate that difficulty 
 and inconvenience. In the case of this dam, which has been there 
 now for, I believe, 150 years, there was an action brought, some years 
 ago, but the Commissioners were unsuccessful, it being private property. 
 I have now proposals from the parties interested in it, upon construct- 
 ing a sewer in another direction, whereby the public will be greatly 
 benefited, to give up that dam, whereby we shall get a fall of 11 feet 
 6 inches in that particular district, anil thereby drain for miles all the 
 parish of Hackney, extending to the Holborn and Finsbury Commis- 
 sion, relieving a district there where there has been some complaint, in 
 what is termed the Stoke Newington portion of the district. The Com- 
 missioners, however, ought to have the power to do a thing of that 
 kind, and we are seeking for such power' by the Bill, without being 
 under the necessity of resorting to private arrangement. 
 
 (To Mr. Unwind) Do the Commissioners understand you to say that 
 you have no open sewers? We have no open sewers in densely popu- 
 lated districts, with the exception of a portion in the parish of Hockney. 
 
 Has not that been complained of very much by the inhabitants? I 
 believe the principal complaint they made was that we made sewers 
 into it. 
 
 What do you pay per annum for cleansing the sewers ? The ave- 
 rage is about .550. 
 
 Do you know of what quantity that would imply the removal ? 
 No, I do not know that; the charge for removing is about 6s. a cubic 
 yard. 
 
 (To Mr. Jllderman Musgrove.) Seeing the inconveniences which re- 
 sult from a separation into differentdivisions of what may be called the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 379 
 
 natural area, the outfall being in one, and the head of the main sewer 
 being in another, do not you think that the districts should be revised 
 with a view of settling- the jurisdiction more in coincidence with the 
 natu* 1 area of the drainage, so that the whole of the drainage of one 
 natirr.l area might be conducted upon one plan by one set of officers'? 
 Y- ; in the Holborn and Finsbury division they have the outlets in 
 some instances through the Tower Hamlets division, and in some 
 through the city of London. There can be no doubt, that it would be 
 desinible, that there should be a controlling power over that area ( so 
 that there 1 might be no difficulty of co-operation between one Commis- 
 sion and the other, though I do not recollect any instance where there 
 has been a difficulty arising out of the present system ; that is to say, 
 the outlets are all preserved for the accommodation of the other Com- 
 missions. 
 
 Are you sure, that persons having part only of any natural drainage 
 area are likely to see all the inconveniences likely to result from a 
 separation of the jurisdiction ? I think, where there has been that co- 
 operation which has existed so long between the several Commissions, 
 no difficulty is likely to arise. 
 
 Are you aware, whether the surveyors of the different districts act 
 upon one uniform plan of construction arid procedure? They do not. 
 Surveyors will differ, like other persons, in opinion, as to the construc- 
 tion of their sewers, though I do not know of its being carried to any 
 extent whereby the public is injured. Our surveyor may have his opi- 
 nion as to the particular construction of a sewer; and the surveyor of 
 the Holborn and Finsbury division may have a different opinion ; and 
 they may both be right. 
 
 Are not sewers constructed very much upon the ideas which survey- 
 ors entertain as to the use which may be made of. them hereafter by 
 other portions of the district draining through them ? Yes. At all 
 times a sewer, when it is intended to be built, is built with that view to 
 afford all the accommodation which it is possible hereafter may be 
 wanted. 
 
 Do not you see the great advantage that would result from one uni- 
 form system being pursued in all districts which the features of the 
 country would indicate to be the area of drainage of that portion of it ? 
 There can be no doubt that that would be an advantage. 
 
 You have observed, that two surveyors may have different opinions 
 as to the sizes and sorts of drains to be constructed, and both be right. 
 The surveyor of the Holborn and Finsbury division is of opinion, that 
 
380 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 a 4-inch tubular house-drain, of the capacity of 121 inches, is fully 
 large enough for carrying- off the water from a house ; from the regu- 
 lations of your Court, it appears that your Court, and probably your 
 surveyor, is of opinion, that a 12-inch square drain, of the capacity of 
 113 inches, or nine times greater than the other, is best for carrying off 
 the drainage of a house. In such a case as that, and with such differ- 
 ences between the divisions, can both be right ? No; but I have no 
 recollection of an instance of that kind. I have not heard that the 
 surveyor to the Holborn and Finsbury division recommends a 4-inch 
 tubular drain from the house, to communicate with the sewer, and that 
 the other recommends a 12-inch drain. It is quite evident, if that be 
 so, that they cannot both be right ; I never heard of it. 
 
 Has the Court ever directed or thought of any gauging of the drains 
 from houses, or of the sewers, with a view to determine the capacity of 
 those drains or sewers'? I believe not; I have no recollection of the 
 surveyor doing anything of that kind. 
 
 Should a large system of drainage, in your opinion, go on without 
 some such reference to the capacity and the quantity of the water to 
 be carried off"? I think not. 
 
 But it has gone on for many years, has not it? To a certain extent 
 it is possible. 
 
 With reference to a survey being made of the whole metropolis, and 
 one general plan being laid down upon a uniform scale, do you think 
 it would be valuable for the purposes of sewerage ? Yes. 
 
 A plan of the accuracy of which there could be no doubt, and to 
 which every one could refer who wished to do any work of the kind ? 
 It would be very desirable for all those who have to administer the 
 law of sewers as well as for the public. 
 
 (To Mr. Unwin.) Have you many courts which are not paved at all 
 in your district? Yes, a great many. 
 
 r Do not you think it would be very desirable, for the sake of the 
 health of the inhabitants, that those courts should be paved ? I think 
 it would. 
 
 Is your system of cleansing sewers by manual labor 1 Yes. 
 
 Is the area of the sewers such as to allow your workmen to perform 
 that operation safely? Yes, we believe so. 
 
 Have you any system of ventilation in the sewers to effect that ? 
 I think we have not. 
 
 You have gully-holes communicating with the sewers ? We 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 381 
 
 Are they trapped 1 I do not think they are ; they belong to the 
 Commissioners of Pavements, mostly. 
 
 If it. were the opinion that the emanations from your sewers by those 
 gully-holes were prejudicial to the public health, would it be in your 
 power to apply traps without the concurrence of the Paving Commis- 
 sioners ? I should think it would, but 1 never knew such a question as 
 that arise. 
 
 You never heard complaints of the nature of the emanations from 
 the gulley-shoots ? Not from our sewers, or, at least, it occurs so sel- 
 dom that I do not recollect any instance of the kind. 
 
 Do you think your sewers are so safe with respect to their atmosphere 
 that it would be safe for any person to pass any length of time in them ? 
 I cannot say ; our workmen very frequently go into them, and we 
 never heard of any accident happening in consequence. 
 
 Have you heard of any accident in consequence of the escape from 
 gas-pipes ? Sometimes an occurrence of that kind does take place. 
 
 Have there been any explosions 1 I think there was a case of that kind, 
 and one of our workmen was injured and taken to the hospital. 
 
 It would be important to know what is the character of the emana- 
 tions from the sewers, that the Commissioners may see whether that is 
 not one of the causes of people not communicating with the sewers? 
 (Mr. Alderman Musgrove.) I think that has not been a cause of their 
 not communicating with the sewer, but that it has arisen from the ex- 
 pense and limited nature of their interest in the property. I never 
 knew an instance in all rny experience of any one refusing to com- 
 municate with the sewer by a drain from his house, on the ground of 
 the effluvia. 
 
 Have you heard complaints of the effluvia from drains which have 
 been opened 1 No. 
 
 Is Silk Mill-row in your district? Yes. 
 
 Is not there an open sewer in that locality ? Yes, I know the spot 
 well ; and I will take this opportunity of saying that that which has 
 been complained of now has been in existence for upwards of twenty- 
 five or thirty years, and it is not in so foul a state at the present mo- 
 ment as it was formerly. The houses in Silk Mill-row are not in- 
 habited to the extent they were formerly. 
 
 Then it is an open sewer? It is a mill-head, receiving the water 
 from the sewer. It is the very mill-head which the Commissioners in 
 my district were desirous of removing several years ago, in order to get 
 rid of the damp, and whereby we might get the 11 feet 6 inches fall, 
 
382 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 which is so much wanted for all the district. If the Commissioners 
 had had any control over the mill -head, which has been complained 
 of by the coroner, it would have been removed some time ago. 
 
 Have the Commissioners turned their attention to covering that 
 brook? It would be impossible to do so in many parts, I think. 
 
 Why? It is a work which would be attended with such an enormous 
 expense. The powers that would be sought for by a Bill would be to 
 borrow money, in order that the rate might not fall wholly upon the 
 present occupiers of the houses. 
 
 Looking to the increasing population in that neighborhood, do not 
 you think it very essential to the public health that the portion from 
 Hackney-road upwards should be covered over? It can only be done 
 by the removal of this very dam. In flood times I have known the 
 water run over the bridge, and through the houses in at the back door, 
 and out. at the front. Till we could get a sufficient fall in the spot I 
 have been mentioning, it would be impossible to cover over that brook, 
 because in flood times it would blow up. 
 
 Why should not it be an elongated covering, as in the case of the 
 public highways on the metroplitan roads ? It might be done, but the 
 expense would be enormous. 
 
 Do you think it would be a great public convenience if it could be 
 done? Doubtless, and my impression is if we can get 11 feet 6 inches 
 fall the whole Hackney Brook might be covered in, in the part which 
 is referred to. 
 
 Do you know the extent of it? Several miles; it runs through 
 marsh lands, and after several days' rain the waters come down from 
 the hills, and completely flood the place. 
 
 Supposing your gully shoots were perfectly trapped, would that so 
 affect the atmosphere of the sewers as to be deleterious to the men? 
 I hardly know how to answer that. 
 
 Are you in the habit of making any new sewers through a new dis- 
 trict of land? Yes, upon an application from the owner of the land, 
 that is to say, supposing a large space of eight or ten acres is laid out 
 for building purposes, and the parties produce plans and show that they 
 are intending to make such sewers as come within the regulations of 
 the Commissioners, if they ask us to bring up an outlet of sufficient 
 size to receive the water from those sewers, it would be done at the 
 public expense, but almost all sewers upon a new ground, being so 
 entirely for the benefit of the owner of the new ground, they would 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 383 
 
 be constructed at his expense by the Commissioners, and he would 
 have an outlet brought up to receive the water. 
 
 You say you think the expense of sewers to different courts and 
 houses should be paid by a charge on the landlords, why should not it 
 be charged upon the Commission, in order to their assessing the pro- 
 perty hereafter ? Assessing the property hereafter would not be sufficient 
 to liquidate the expense in the first instance, and the advantage to be 
 derived to the landlord would be too great at the public expense. It 
 appears to me tliat it would be very unfair to charge the public rate 
 with the construction of sewers over 10 or 20 acres of land which is 
 to be laid out in streets and roads for the benefit of the landlord. I 
 think the Commissioners should have power to compel every landlord 
 in laying out ground for building purposes to construct suitable drain- 
 age, in the first instance being supplied with the means to take the 
 vv-ater away. 
 
 In making new se\vers, do not you raise the money by rates 1 Yes, 
 for the public. I cannot bring my mind to think that it would be just 
 to the rate-payers to call upon them to expend 50001. or 10,0001. at 
 once, to construct sewers over land for the benefit of the landlord. 
 
 Is it necessary to call for the outlay at once? In the ciothworkers' 
 estate, with which I am connected, we have the Shepherd and Shep- 
 herdess Fields, there are 55 acres. We have lately been letling it 
 upon building leases, and in every case, we have called upon the 
 builders to construct the sewers and make the roads at their own ex- 
 pense, under the direction of the Commissioners; the Commissioners 
 have brought up a large sewer to receive the necessary communica- 
 tions. It would have cost the Commissioners 10,000/. to construct 
 sewers upon that estate, but the, moment the houses are constructed, 
 they may be brought into the rating for the annual expense of repair- 
 ing and keeping up the sewers and making new outlets. After being 
 built they will be taken under the jurisdiction of the Commissioners, 
 and kept in order and repaired by them, but the first building of the 
 sewers is at the expense of the land owner. 
 
 You say it would have cost 10,000/., that at the annual charge of 
 principal and interest, if spread over thirty years, would be only 591/. 1 
 If power were given to the Commissioners to build sewers in such a 
 way as might be required, and to charge landlords with the money, 
 there would be no difficulty. 
 
 Do not you think it would be desirable to obtain that power 1 Yes* 
 
384 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 In this Cease, the charge of 591/. would be distributed among a large 
 number of houses, which might be built there? There could be no 
 objection to that plan. 
 
 Is it within your experience that a private builder can build as well 
 as the public builder. If the public administration be well conducted, 
 could not a Commission of Sewers build more cheaply and better tban 
 any private builder? I think we could ; all the sewers are built under 
 the direction of the Commissioners by contract; every sewer is built 
 by the Commissioners by public tender. 
 
 You have stated that the average of your charge is 2d. in the pound ? 
 In some instances not so much ; sometimes we have a sixpenny rate 
 upon one level and a ninepenny rate upon another, because the level 
 where the ninepenny rate has been levied requires more expenditure 
 than the level where the sixpenny rate is made. 
 
 The Commissioners are led to believe that the expense of a sewer 
 in a street, under the regulation of the Act of Parliament, of not less 
 than 40 feet wide would be about 8/. for a house with 20 feet frontage? 
 It would depend in some measure upon situation. There are some 
 places where the digging and removal of soil can be done at very little 
 expense ; in other cases it is a very great expense. 
 
 Do not you think that if the sewers generally were made under the 
 jurisdiction of the Commission, and by them it would be much more 
 conducive to the public interest? Probably. 
 
 On the same principle that it would be beneficial to the public for 
 the Commissioners to superintend the construction of all sewers, would 
 not it be an advantage to the public if the Commissioners would under- 
 take the building of the house-drains also? It would be better that all 
 should be under the control of the Commissioners, but the Commission- 
 ers must have power to go and build those drains without being con- 
 sidered by law to be trespassers. 
 
 Supposing you had that power, do not you think it would be econo- 
 mical to the public, that, is to say, the house drain would be made 
 better and more cheaply than it can be done privately ? I have no 
 doubt of it. 
 
 Do not you think that the trouble of doing it, and not knowing 
 where to go, nor the best way of setting about it, is one cause which 
 leads people not to make communications from their houses to the 
 sewers? I do not think anything would induce people generally to 
 make such communications without compulsory power. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 385 
 
 If there were a compulsory power, you are of opinion that the public 
 administration connected with the sewers should execute it ? Yes, for 
 this reason ; it would be done so willingly by those who were com- 
 pelled to do it, that it would be done effectually. 
 
 The public administration, whatever it were, would have it in their 
 power to do it better and more cheaply 1 I am sure of it. 
 
 Do not you think that that power should be coupled also with some 
 real responsibility as to the quality and the expense of the works which 
 might be executed ; supposing Commissioners to go on for a series of 
 years constructing sewers at double the necessary cost, or putting in 
 very inefficient work, do not you think that there should be some re- 
 sponsibility attached to their doing so? There should be responsibility, 
 I think. I may also say, that the power being vested in the Commis- 
 sioners to construct those drains, they ought lo be protected against be- 
 ing called on to make good what injury to the house may be necessary 
 in constructing them, otherwise the landlord would call upon the Com- 
 missioners after the construction is done, to repair his flooring, or to put up 
 his skirting and other matters connected with the interior of the house. 
 I think, where the Commissioners observe a drain is absolutely neces- 
 sary for the protection of the health of the inhabitants of the house, 
 having constructed the drain, they ought not to be answerable for the 
 reparation of the house. 
 
 Supposing it occurs in a district that the outlay appears to have been 
 double or treble for a bad system of sewers, emitting pestilential smells, 
 than would be necessary upon a better system free from such objec- 
 tions, what sort of responsibility do you think ought to be attached to 
 persons who have pursued that system of waste? It would be difficult 
 to define the sort of responsibility, because the Commissioners, acting 
 under the direction of their surveyor, would necessarily perform the work 
 upon as economical a plan as it could be done, it being done at all 
 times by contract. For instance, we have generally contracts every 
 year for doing certain works, that is to say, 12-inch drains of such ma- 
 terials shall be done at all times and in all places at so much per foot, 
 and done to the satisfaction of the surveyor of the Commissioners. 
 With such regulations it would be difficult to incur any responsibility in 
 the way suggested. 
 
 Supposing those 12-inch drains to be nine times the size which is ac- 
 tually required for the work, or that upon full and competent consider- 
 ation would have been found necessary to the work, do not you think 
 
386 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 that the public, or the rate-payers, whose money has been so spent, 
 ought to have some redress? Supposing- it to be so, but it appears to 
 me to be a case not likely to occur. I cannot conceive of a body of 
 Commissioners allowing- a surveyor to build a drain so totally at va- 
 riance with the public advantage. The man would be discharged. 
 
 You admit the principle of the responsibility of the Commissioners in 
 employing such a man 1 I admit that there should be a responsibility, 
 but it appears to me to be so extreme a case as not to be likely to hap- 
 pen. A person building a drain from a house to communicate with a 
 sewer that shall be nine times as large as necessary appears so strong a 
 case that it seems unlikely to occur. 
 
 Mr. Unwin. Assuming 1 the case that the Commissioners have com- 
 pelled the man to build a sewer nine times as large as it ought to be, 
 knowing it to be so, I think the present law would reach them. 
 
 From the account you have given of the small number of houses 
 communicating with the sewers, must not there be an enormous quan- 
 tity of cesspools in the district? A very great number. 
 
 (To Mr. Alderman M us grove.) Are you aware what the state of 
 those cesspools is? I have known cesspools in the Hackney district to 
 be ten, fifteen, or twenty years without being emptied. Since we 
 have constructed so many sewers in the Tower Hamlets, that has con- 
 tributed in a great measure to relieve the cesspools. 
 
 Do you know that to be the case ? I do, and I know that it has de- 
 prived a large quantity of our Clapton and Hackney gentry of their 
 wells of water. 
 
 If the feculent matter from the cesspools has percolated the soil, is it 
 not probable that it has also got into a great number of wells ? The 
 water does not continue in the sewer, it runs through ; the fall is suffi- 
 cient in the sewers that have been constructed to carry the water and 
 contents entirely away. The water does not remain in the sewer. 
 
 Wells and cesspools may have a communication quite independently 
 of the sewer? It is possible. 
 
 As both the liquid from the cesspool and the well which is external 
 to the sewer have flowed from the outside into the sewer, does not it 
 follow that the liquid from the cesspools and from the wells may have 
 joined before it got there ? That might depend upon the distance be- 
 tween the wells and the cesspools. A person digging a cesspool to re- 
 ceive the waste water of the house would scarcely dig a well near 
 enough to be at all injured by the contents of the cesspool. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 387 
 
 Are you so well acquainted with the situation of the wells and cess- 
 pools in relation to each other a"s to say that it is not likely that they 
 do communicate ? I confess I know of no instance in my own neigh- 
 bourhood where a complaint has been made arising from the cesspool 
 and the well being placed in the situation your Lordship describes. 
 
 Are you not aware that in crowded districts many old wells have been 
 given up which were formerly in good repute 1 In the city of London, 
 and in crowded districts, undoubtedly. 
 
 Have any instances been brought under your notice of injury to the 
 public health by the percolation of the cesspools through the ground, 
 and the saturation of the ground with such matter ? None in the dis- 
 trict where I have resided all my life. 
 
 Should not you think it must be injurious 7 It is possible, but I never 
 heard of an instance. 
 
 In crowded and unventilated places s for example? Yes ; in crowded 
 districts I think it is very probable. 
 
 Are you aware at all what the general position of the cesspool is with 
 regard to the house, whereabouts it is? It is placed in different situa- 
 tions for the convenience of drainage. Sometimes the cesspool will be 
 placed near to the house to save the expense of pipes and drainage. 
 
 Ih crowded districts, is not it the case that it is very near, and some- 
 times under, the house itself? In crowded districts it must necessarily 
 be so. 
 
 And in crowded districts in the Tower Hamlets there are a great 
 may cesspools'? There are. 
 
 Are there a great many bakers in the Tower Hamlets 1 A great 
 number. 
 
 Are you aware whereabouts the bakehouses usually are ? They are 
 generally in the basement story of the house. 
 
 Are they not under the house always? The oven is under the pave- 
 ment. The bakehouse would be probably in the place of the front 
 kitchen. The ovens are more frequently under the highway. 
 
 Are they not in many instances behind the house ? There are in- 
 stances. 
 
 Whether before or behind the house in all cases they are underneath 
 tho surface of the ground 1 They are generallv so. 
 
 The stuff from those cesspools permeates the soil ? Yes. 
 
 Do not you think it likely that it may give out occasionally noxious 
 
 25 
 
388 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 effluvia ? I think there is no doubt of it, where the cesspool is under 
 the house. 
 
 And that in crowded districts you say is frequently the case? Where 
 sewage is brought up they may have an opportunity of draining into 
 the sewers without the aid of a cesspool. But there are many cases 
 where they have refused to do so, even where they have cesspools un- 
 der the house. 
 
 And that in by far the majority of instances probably ? There are a 
 great many instances I know, where, though there is a sewer directly 
 in front of the house, parties will not make a communication with it, 
 though the cesspool is immediately under the house. 
 
 Your district is served by the East London Water Works, is not it? 
 It is. 
 
 What is your opinion as to the Commissioners of Sewers having more 
 control over water companies than they have now ? I think it would 
 be a very desirable thing for the Commissioners of Sewers to have a 
 controlling power over the supply of water. I think the supply of 
 water to courts and alleys and to the poorer classes is not sufficient. I 
 think the supply of water being twice a week only in some cases, and 
 in others only once even, it becomes in so impure a state before it is 
 used that it must be most injurious. In what way the power could be 
 obtained by the Commissioners I cannot say ; but I am sure that the 
 health of the poorer classes depends in a great measure, upon our hav- 
 ing greater power over the supply of water. 
 
 No. 29. 
 MR. JAMES BEEK. 
 
 You have been surveyor to the Tower Hamlets division for how long 1 
 31 years in January next. 
 
 You were examined before the Commissioners of Inquiry into the 
 means of improving the Health of Towns ? I was examined twice. 
 
 The Commissioners are desirous of ascertaining the extent of work 
 for street and house, and main drainage, which remains to be accom- 
 plished in your district, have you any plans in your office upon which 
 you can rely for making an accurate return of the number of streets 
 within the district which have sewers in them? I think I could obtain 
 that ; there is a plan here of the district of the Tower Hamlets (pro- 
 ducing the same.) 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 389 
 
 Have you sections of all the lines of sewers 1 All those which have 
 been put in within the last 15 or 20 years ; the cross sections are here I 
 think. 
 
 What is the boundary of your district east and west? The boundary 
 is the City upon the west side, and on the east side it is the Poplar and 
 BlackwalL Marsh. To the north is Tottenham, and the river Thames 
 to the south. 
 
 Will you describe the progress of your works since you were last ex- 
 amined before the Health of Towns Commission 1 I did not receive 
 my notice till past 10 o'clock last night, and therefore I have had very 
 Hide time and cannot furnish the Commissioners with anything relat- 
 ing to figures except from documents. We have within the last 12 
 months nearly got rid, and indeed^ except 420 feet that will be com- 
 plete before Christmas, we have altogether got rid of open sewers in the 
 district of the Tower Hamlets, except those which pass through open 
 fields, and a portion in the Hackney Brook Level. All those which 
 are in densely populated neighbourhoods are covered. That amounts 
 altogether to between 10,000 and 11,000 feet. 
 
 Do the open sewers which you have at Hackney receive the sewage 
 of any part of the town '? Not in London ; they receive the house 
 water about that part, Shacklewell, and Kingsland, and Hackney. 
 
 Are there many houses near those open sewers'? In parts there are. 
 
 Will you put in a plan, with the sewers which remain open marked 
 upon it 1 I will. 
 
 Since you were examined before the Health of Towns Commission, 
 have your works at all varied as respects the size of your sewers, or 
 their construction 1 At that period we had not any third-sized sewers. 
 W T e had only two sizes, the first and second. Since then a third size 
 has been introduced. 
 
 Are you carrying out sewers of each class 1 Yes. 
 
 To what sized houses or places do you adapt those sewers? It de- 
 pends upon the thoroughfare more than anything else. The third- 
 sized sewer is applied to the open sewers we have lately covered, run- 
 ning at the backs of houses, or through land not thoroughfares. If 
 that sized sewer were introduced in a carriage thoroughfare, the walls 
 would be thickened to 9 inches. If any of those were required where 
 they could be carried a considerable distance, and be applied to the 
 drainage of a large neighbourhood, the sewer would be increased in 
 size. 
 
390 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The first sized sewer is 4 feet 6 by 3 feet ? Yes. 
 
 With two rims ? Yes, three at the bottom. 
 
 At what cost do you get that executed generally 1 10s. 9d. 
 
 There is a second-sized sewer of 4 feet by 2 feet 6? Yes, 
 
 What kind of places do you apply that to? To collateral streets. 
 
 To what class do you apply your third-size 1 Up courts and pas- 
 sages where there are no carriage thoroughfares, and where the traffic 
 is not great. 
 
 In a court with a dozen houses upon either side this is the sewer 
 which would be introduced ? Yes. 
 
 A sewer of 2 feet 6 by 2 feet 3 ? Yes, of half a brick. It is 3 feet 
 6 by 2 feet 3. 
 
 What is the usual expense of that size? We are now building 2000 
 feet of that, and the expense of it is under 6s. a-foot. If I estimated 
 it, I should make it 7s. or 8s. What they are done for it is impossible 
 to tell. 
 
 Is it with concrete at the bottom ? No, it is all cemented. 
 
 Do you find many people join on to your newly built sewers ? Until 
 lately, very few. We have instances of 2000 or 3000 feet being car- 
 ried out, and not half a dozen communications made ; but a sewer 
 being put down through a gravelly soil may be very beneficial to 
 houses, without communications bein^r made. The wells are drained, 
 and the water in the cesspools is lowered naturally from the percolation. 
 
 Do you allow a portion of the side to be open ? No ; but cutting 
 the ground sets it free. 
 
 Do you cement it all the way round 1 No, the second-sized sewer is 
 never cemented, it is all done with stone lime. The construction of 
 the sewer is of the best material and in the best manner. 
 
 Why do you require so large a class of sewer for so small a number 
 of houses ? It is not that the requirement would be equal tp that, but 
 it is the custom. 
 
 Is it done more for the purpose of communicating with it by men 1 
 That was the object originally, no doubt. 
 
 You use that size of sewer in order to put a man down it ? Yes, I 
 reported to that effect. Before it was introduced, I gave that as the 
 reason why that should be the smallest sized sewer. 
 
 You stated that, of the sewers you have already executed, there are 
 very few people who join them ? Latterly the numbers have increased 
 greatly. I think at the last Court there were 60 or 70 applications for 
 communications. They have increased considerably lately. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 391 
 
 Can you give any return at all of the number of houses which drain 
 into sewers? I cannot. The clerk can give the Commissioners an 
 account of the petitions. He has them all entered. 
 
 Since when" have you had this great increase of communication ? I 
 am speaking of the last Court which was held not above a month ago; 
 but they have been increasing for the last year or two. 
 
 What was the reason, do you consider, that the people did not join 
 on to your sewers before? Because of the expense ; I do not know any 
 other cause. 
 
 Do you charge the whole of the expense upon the owner? We 
 have no power of compelling him to do it. There is a charge made 
 for the first three feet ; that charge is, I .think, 17s. ; that includes the 
 drip-stone. 
 
 What size have you been accustomed to require in those cases ? 12 
 inches. 
 
 And that size you still adhere to? Yes. 
 
 Supposing it is a house in a court or an alley ? That would make no 
 difference. 
 
 At the present time what would be the expense to a person wishing 
 to drain a single house ? Would he have to send notice to you? He 
 first of all applies by petition to the Commissioners for permission to do 
 so. That is referred to me, and if there is nothing irregular in the ap- 
 plication, I sign it. It then goes before the Commissioners and leave 
 is granted, and he has an order to do it, before he does it, giving no- 
 tice to the Court that the ground is open so that our contractor may 
 introduce the first three feet, that we may know that the sewer is not 
 injured by the communication. After that he conducts it himself. 
 
 The first three feet will be completed for 17s. ? As far as that three 
 feet goes. The money paid by the party is not paid to the Commis- 
 missioners, but to the contractor. 
 
 Has he any fee to pay? No, none at all to any one. 
 
 Would not he always have notice to give to the Surveyor of Pave- 
 ments? If it comes within their jurisdiction. All streets and courts 
 are not so. 
 
 And so with respect to any sewers you may lay down ? Yes. 
 
 Do not they require to replace the pavement themselves? Yes ; that 
 is required by the Metropolitan Paving Act. 
 
 Do not they put their own charge upon that work? It may be cal- 
 culated upon ; it is 9d. and Is. 6d. If it is grouted they charge more; 
 that is the invariable charge. 
 
 ' ,..: ' 
 
 Tt'TTRSm" 
 
392 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The charges, in respect to that, are invariable you say 1 Yes ; I 
 never knew an instance to the contrary. 
 
 Have you any survey displaying the courts and alleys in your dis- 
 trict which are drained, and those which are under-drained ? No ; we 
 are not in the habit of draining courts and alleys. The Commissioners 
 are in the habit of introducing sewers in that situation. 
 
 Are water-closets frequent in your district 1 No ; there are very few ; 
 it is a miserable district a great portion of it ; in fact, the introduction 
 of a drain would be worth the freehold almost in some cases. 
 
 In the better class of houses, are water-closets frequent'? I should 
 say not. I think there were very few indeed. 
 
 There is no street or court within your district which you can poin t 
 out, as having houses all of which have water-closets, and all of which 
 drain into your sewer? No. 
 
 Have you ever guaged the quantities of water which pass through 
 your sewers when there is no rain, and when there is rain 1 
 No. 
 
 You have, and have thought of no system of that kind? No; 
 nothing at all. 
 
 What methods do you use for cleansing out the sewers when there 
 is deposit? The sewers are opened, and the deposit is taken out and 
 carted away. 
 
 To what extent do you do that now? At an expense of from five to 
 six hundred pounds a-year ; it is rather mixed up with other things ; 
 but I do not think it exceeds that. 
 
 Of how many loads do you think that sum will imply the removal ? 
 That I can hardly say ; some of that refers to cleansing out open 
 s ewers. 
 
 In some cases, in cleansing open sewers, you throw it on the bank? 
 Yes, at the wish, in fact, of the party belonging to the land, and there 
 is a different price paid for it. 
 
 That is where he wants a run of water to clear his land ? Yes. 
 
 Have you much land drainage about you with tiles or otherwise ? 
 Hardly any. 
 
 You would confine your statement of the progress in your district to 
 the carrying out or building a greater extent of main sewers ? Yes. 
 A great many other things would be done, if the Commissioners had 
 the power ; but they have no power to carry out those sanitary mea- 
 sures which they would otherwise do. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 393 
 
 What proportion of courts, alleys, and streets within your district re- 
 main without sewers'? That I cannot state. 
 
 What are the points of improvement which your Commissioners or 
 yourself would aim to seek powers for? The power to compel parties 
 to pay for sewers that may be necessary. We have many districts 
 where parties have taken the brick earth out of the land ; they have 
 reduced the natural level, and, of course, have deprived themselves of 
 the drainage they else would have had. They then come to the Com- 
 missioners of Sewers and ask for a sewer, the water not running off. 
 They having first deteriorated the land so much that it was worthless, 
 a sewer being put in would increase the value, and turn it into build- 
 ing ground ; it is not a fair thing that the public should be charged in 
 a case of that kind. If the Commissioners had the power to put in 
 sewers, charging the owner of the land with the pxpense, payable at 
 certain periods, whether it were two, five, ten, or twenty years, would 
 not signify, so that the portion might be spread over a number of years, 
 I think every sanitary measure might be carried out completely, and 
 in the course of a couple of years I have no doubt everything required 
 could be done. I am sure it could in our district. 
 
 Your charges for the drainage of any part of the district are now 
 levied over the whole district? Yes, in levels. 
 
 Have you not portions of your district which have been paying for 
 vears, sewers'-rates, which have had no perceptible benefit from them 1 
 I think not. 
 
 If you lay down a main or collateral drain in Shad well, will that 
 confer upon the Hackney people, who have to contribute to it, any 
 benefit? They have not to contribute to it, and they never did. 
 
 Then your usual practice is to charge by level? Yes ; the Hackney 
 level pays for the works constructed and the work done in it, and its 
 portion of the contingent expenses by itself. Every level, of which 
 there are seven, pays in the same proportion, and the rates on that ac- 
 count are not equal ; some are 3d., some 6d., and some 9d., according 
 to the work done, and to be done, and any balance from the rate which 
 may be left in hand. Hackney has never been charged for the con- 
 struction of any work in Shadwell or Ratcliffe-highway. 
 
 Take the case of Hackney level, are there in Hackney level any 
 courts and alleys without any drains ? No doubt about it, in every 
 level there are. 
 
 They have been paying sewers'-rates, having had no drainage 
 
394 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 themselves? No immediate drainage ; they have all drainage, 1 con- 
 sider. 
 
 Will not they have been paying for collateral drains? No; they 
 have surface drains into our sewers ; there are dozens of houses 
 which are drained into sewers which neither I nor any one else know 
 any thing about. There are many places which appear to be defi- 
 cient in sewers where they have private sewers and drainage of that 
 description, sewers which have been made by the owners of the prop- 
 erty. 
 
 Have not those parties, at the same time, contributed to the sewerage 
 of other districts? Only to their o\vn level. All the surface water 
 has a communication into our sewers, and we are carrying it off for 
 them. Many streets have no immediate connection with the sewer, 
 but they are benefited by it. 
 
 What is the amount of benefit in such a case? I do not think the 
 law of sewers makes any distinction. 
 
 The persons living in collateral streets and places undrained will 
 have contributed to the drainage of other collateral streets and places? 
 Yes, they have paid their proportion to all new works as well as old 
 ones. 
 
 From which they cannot have derived any benefit? No immediate 
 benefit. 
 
 What remote benefit do they derive ? The water is carried off the 
 surface. 
 
 What is it to them that it is carried off the surface of a street half a 
 mile off? The water must run into our sewers. 
 
 Supposing it is in a part of the district higher up, how would they 
 be benefited by the water running off into a collateral sewer beneath 
 them ? They cannot be flooded if they are above the level of the 
 sewers. 
 
 Must not that be the case with a great number of contributors? It 
 may be so with many, but if it were not for our drainage they would 
 be flooded upon the very surface. The houses in courts generally are 
 two or three roomed houses ; they are built almost level with the sur- 
 face of the court, only raised a step, or going down a step, perhaps. 
 If the surface water were not carried off they would have the water in 
 the houses. 
 
 May not that be true of a particular court, and yet not have the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 395 
 
 'slightest effect upon the streets above it? I do not know how to go 
 into matters of that kind. 
 
 Within the level may not it be true that persons may have been 
 paying sewers'-rates for a century for districts which have remained for 
 a century undrained ? In some points of view it may be so. I con- 
 sider that the sewer-rate should be rather like the highway-rate. The 
 highway-rate is made under the Highway Act. A man may not keep 
 carts and horses to go over the road, but he pays the same as the man 
 who does. 
 
 Take the case of a district occupied by lessees, having short portions 
 of time to run out, how is that to be paid for? It should be ascer- 
 tained according to the different interests they may have in the 
 property. 
 
 How would you charge it, supposing the case of a proprietor of a 
 court or block of houses ; he wants them drained, how would the 
 drainage be charged? The sewer would be built by the Commis- 
 sioners and charged to him, payable in certain proportions. 
 
 What proportions? It would be allowed to run over five, six, or ten 
 years. 
 
 How many years is it your practice to let it run over ? That is one 
 of the powers which we want ; if we had the power we should soon 
 put those matters to rights. 
 
 At present, anybody who wants drainage done must pay the whole 
 expense himself ? Not in all cases. If the Commission sees that it is 
 a sewer which may be carried forward for the public benefit and used 
 for other purposes, there is very little difficulty in getting the sewer 
 built. If it is a sewer which is but partially of that character, or 
 which will be certainly more immediately for the benefit of the party 
 applying, it is considered then that he should contribute something 
 towards it, which he does sometimes in the proportion of a third or 
 half, and the Commissioners build that sewer and take it. In other 
 cases, in putting a sewer into a court, with eight or ten houses, where 
 no one can be benefited but the party himself, they consider it hard 
 that the public should pay towards the profit of an individual ; the rate 
 he may have been paying is but a trifling rate. I do not think it 
 exceeds 3d. in t^ie pound in the year. 
 
 Have not you heard complaints in respect to some of the sewers in 
 the streets, that the smells from the sewers and from the drains to them 
 are very offensive ? Very rarely. Our sewers are closed for seven 
 
396 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 hours ; we have 16 outlets into the Thames, and almost all the water 
 from our sewers, with very little exception, goes into the Thames. 
 For seven hours out of the twelve, we are shut up, the valves 
 discharging 12 or 15 feet below high-water mark, consequently our 
 sewers are mere reservoirs for a certain number of hours. That would 
 argue against the practice of flushing, and everything else. We are 
 scoured in that way in the lower part of the district. 
 
 You have to remove the deposit, have you not? Yes. 
 
 From those places you have had very little complaint of smells 1 No. 
 
 But smells must exist 1 Of course. 
 
 May not the very small number of persons who have hitherto com- 
 municated their house drains with the sewers arise from a doubt on 
 their part whether joining is worth while, inasmuch as, in opening into 
 the sewer, they may be only opening a means of conveying effluvia 
 from the sewer into the house 1 I think not. 
 
 What is the cause of the number being so small ? The expense, I 
 think, more than anything else. 
 
 Have you taken any measures to reduce the expense ? No ; we 
 have nothing to do with the drains, we do not build them. 
 
 Do not you think it would be an improvement if the drainage from 
 the house, as well as the main drain, were provided for under one sys- 
 tem ? No, I cannot see that. I think the party ought to pay for it. 
 It is a benefit to his property. In our district I think it would be im- 
 possible to compel every house to communicate on account of the ex- 
 pense. On that account, I do not hesitate in recommending the Com- 
 missioners of Sewers, where there are eight or nine houses and a good 
 sewer to communicate with, to drain the whole of them by one outlet 
 running at the back of those houses, through the gardens, for instance. 
 
 Do you consider that drainage is an expense, if properly conducted, 
 or is it that none is seen as it is now conducted 1 It must be attended 
 with some cost. 
 
 What is the expense of emptying cesspools in your district? Take 
 a common tenement? From Is. to 10s. probably. If the man who 
 does the work is allowed to come to your house and charge, he will 
 charge perhaps four or five times that, but I may safely say that all 
 men who do business of that kind in the Tower Hamlets would think 
 from 10^. to 155. ample. 
 
 Some of the nightmen say that the average expense may be about 
 1 a-house? It is not so in the Tower Hamlets. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 397 
 
 What would be the average expense of cleansing, do you think? 
 Certainly not exceeding 1 15s. 
 
 That might be the fair average, you think? I think so ; that is not 
 allowing the nightman to use his own discretion about it. 
 
 How often wonld you require them to be cleansed iu a year? Per- 
 haps not oftener than once in three, four, or five years. 
 
 Can they be properly cleansed in that way ? I think so, taking the 
 houses I am speaking of. The cesspool would not be cleansed oftener 
 than once in three or five years. 
 
 Would not that depend upon the percolation ? A great deal must 
 depend upon the percolation; of course, where it is sandy or gravelly 
 soil, it acts very much upon the cesspool for a time, but after a course 
 of time the pores get stopped, and that ceases. 
 
 Your drainage has generally lowered the cesspools, you think? Yes ; 
 it has taken the water out of the wells and stopped steam-engines. 
 
 Is not that a proof of the extent of percolation? Yes ; in that case 
 there have been springs which have been intercepted. 
 
 In the way you speak of the cesspool empties itself by percolating 
 into the substratum and under the foundations of the whole neighbor- 
 hood ? Yes ; that is, where the communication is free. 
 
 Did you adopt in the Tower Hamlets any precautions at all respect- 
 ing the cholera when it appeared before ? Not by making sewers. I 
 could detail to the Commissioners what did take place during that 
 period. We had been in the habit of cleansing sewers in the Tower 
 Hamlets by contract once in three years. The contractor generally 
 took the first two years of his contract to cleanse the sewers. In con- 
 sequence of the cholera, and the number of Boards of Health, parties 
 who had puddles in front of their doors thought it a good opportunity 
 to get rid of them. The table of the Commissioners was groaning 
 with applications for the purpose. Instead of 20 or 30 men being put 
 en to cleanse the place, there were 120 men ; and that which would 
 have taken two or three years to do, was done in the course of three or 
 four months. During the whole of that time there was not a man of 
 those 120 men that was in the least injured, or who suffered in any way 
 in his health. In one place, "however, we were putting in 4000 feet of 
 the largest sewers ; more pure and beautiful water than was running 
 in that excavation I never saw. There were men there who* were 
 working as bricklayers, five of those bricklayers were taken ill, and 
 three died of the cholera; while those who were cleansing the sewers 
 
398 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 entirely escaped. I was in conversation with Dr. Fair after that, 
 arid he said, u Do you not know the reason your men were all 
 enveloped in ammonia, nothing could hurt them." 
 
 According to that theory, the whole district would be safe, if the 
 whole district were enveloped in ammonia ? The fact I know to be 
 that none of those men were injured. 
 
 Supposing the cholera to re-appear, should you alter your mode of 
 dealing with it ? I do not think we could. One thing is very essential, 
 in my opinion, and that is an excess of water. I think if plenty of 
 water were applied, the surface drainage in courts and alleys is of more 
 consequence than anything else. If there is a great run of water there 
 is cleanliness, but it is a very difficult thing to introduce anything of 
 that kind in such neighborhoods. 
 
 Has the system of man-holes to the sewers been adopted ? Yes ; we 
 have man-holes to all of them. 
 
 On the whole, if the cholera re-appeared, you do not think there is 
 anything more that you could do? I do not thiuk there is anything 
 as regards* the sewers. I was in houses where people were ill for two 
 hours, quite unconsciously, when the cholera first appeared at Lime- 
 house. 
 
 Were those men who were cleansing the sewers young men ? No ; 
 some of them had been at work 20 or 25 years. 
 
 Is it your opinion that, in however filthy a condition a sewer may 
 be, it is not injurious to health ? I cannot venture to say that ; but I 
 am quite certain that masses of water upon the surface, or where there 
 is decomposing vegetable matter, which is a vast deal more injurious to 
 health, would engender disease ; but I do not think anything like the 
 evil arises from the sewers which has been talked of. In Surrey, I 
 think, they met with the same circumstances we met with. 
 
 The conclusion you state was the general conclusion of all parties 
 connected with sewers ? Yes. 
 
 And you are convinced that if left to themselves they would act upon 
 if? Yes. 
 
 It was the general opinion among the officers ? Yes. 
 
 Can you give the Commissioners any idea of the expense of draining 
 courts 1 It must depend upon circumstances ; the court may be ten 
 feet wide, or twenty feet wide. 
 
 Have you made any estimate of the expense of draining courts and 
 alleys'? No. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 399 
 
 As to private drains you have made no estimate ? No. 
 
 Nor does it enter into your calculations for the future 1 No. 
 
 Nor any adaptation of the supplies of water ? No. 
 
 What measure, so far as you know, do the Commissioners contem- 
 plate, or what additions to their power do they desire? The main 
 thing, I think, with regard to sanitary measures, would be the power to 
 compel parties to drain their property, not that the Commissioners 
 should be put to the expense of laying in two or three thousand feet 
 of sewers and no one communicate with them. 
 
 Would you appoint any scale of expense ? The expense must 
 depend upon circumstances. 
 
 Has it, been calculated what it would be done for if done by the 
 Sewers' Commission, as compared with the ordinary rates of expendi- 
 ture by individuals themselves'? I should expect it would be done for 
 less money by the Commissioners ; and I am sure that it would be 
 done infinitely better. I do not think it should be clone by the parties. 
 
 With respect to a survey, have you levels of your whole district, 
 taken ? No ; we have longitudinal sections of the sewers built within 
 a few years past. Those were sections made before the work was 
 carried out. 
 
 Supposing you wanted a block of houses drained in some part, how 
 could you tell that it would join on with any future system of drain- 
 age ? All I could do is to take the situation of our sewer, and likewise 
 the situation of property beyond it. By that I can ascertain the proba- 
 bility of its being carried further. 
 
 You drain to your nearest outfall, in fact? Yes; if I found there 
 was a fall in the land, one way or the other, I should take care that 
 the sewer was taken to the lowest possible level. 
 
 Have you ever mooted the subject of getting a general survey to a 
 fixed datum line to the Commissioners'? No. 
 
 Nor have they to you ? No. 
 
 It has not entered into the consideration of the Commission ? No ; 
 we have a very large plan. 
 
 When was that made ? -In 1833. 
 
 You cannot tell what levels were taken? No levels were taken. 
 
 You do not know how far it is to be trusted or not? No. 
 
 Is Bethnal-green in your district ? Yes. 
 
 Do you know anything of Lamb's-fields ? Yes. 
 
 Have not you had frequent representations as to the want of drain- 
 
400 MINUTES Of EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 age in that particular district? Not frequent. The sewer is now al- 
 most completed up to the spot in consequence of representations from 
 Dr. South wood Smith. 
 
 Is not there a great population all round Lamb's-fields 1 We are 
 now putting in a sewer along Three Court-lane, up to the end of the 
 street leading on to Lamb's-fields, to afford an opportunity to the pro- 
 prietor to communicate, if he thinks proper, that is in consequence of 
 a letter which the Commissioners received. They immediately took 
 up the matter, and did what they thought right. The work would be 
 very much for the benefit of the neighbourhood. 
 
 Has not that private property paid sewers'-rates for a length of time 1 
 No ; (hey are all new houses. We are now cutting off all the drains 
 from the old property which used to communicate with Lamb's-fields ; 
 the sewer will now intersect the water which used to go into Lamb's- 
 fields, and we shall carry it off another way. Lamb's-fields is one of 
 the fields I referred to where the making of the sewer would be simply 
 for the benefit of the owner of the property. 
 
 You are aware that there was a large space there, which was con- 
 stantly covered with water? Yes; about one-fiftieth part of what was 
 represented ; where thousands were spoken of, it measured hundreds. 
 It was under the arches of the Eastern Counties' railway. 
 
 Are you aware of any particular frequency of disease which was 
 prevalent in the street branching off from it? I went there in conse- 
 quence of what was said, by the direction of the Commissioners. It 
 is not part of my duty to go into houses for the purpose of inquiring 
 into that, but in consequence of what was stated, I went to ascertain as 
 to the number of cases of fever, and I inquired at most of the houses 
 along the line about this stagnant water, and I did not find any case 
 which had taken place lately. Some of them they gave me went 
 back two years. I found nothing but four or five cases of scarletina. 
 
 In what month was it that you made that examination? About the 
 middle of this year ; I think about June or July. It was in conse- 
 quence of a letter which appeared in the newspaper, and which was 
 sent likewise to our Commissioners. At this time the "sewer is being 
 carried up so as to take the water from those old properties, and entire- 
 ly cut off the water which goes to Lamb's-fields -the water under the 
 railway will be absorbed, and it will be like other ground. 
 
 You could not hear of much disease in the neighbourhood ? Not in 
 the course of the inquiries I made. I was accompanied by one of the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 401 
 
 inspectors and the sluice-keeper, and, I suppose, we went into a dozen 
 houses or more. I reported it to the Commissioners afterwards. There 
 has likewise been a complaint by Mr. Baker, the Coroner, as to Silk 
 Mill row, at Homerton, but that is the case where the Commissioners 
 have no power. 
 
 Is Hackney within your district 1 Yes. 
 
 Shoreditch ? No. 
 
 Bethnal-green ? Yes. 
 
 Is Stepney 1 Yes ; and Mile End Old Town. 
 
 Is Limehouse in your district? Part of Limehouse is in our dis- 
 trict. There are two levels, Lower Limehouse and Upper Limehouse. 
 
 The Registrar-General of Hackney reports the number of deaths 
 from epidemics to the total number of deaths of gentry in Hackney, to 
 be 9 per cent. ; of the tradesmen, 9 per cent. ; and of undescribed per- 
 sons, 20 per cent. Of Stepney, it is reported the deaths of the gentry 
 are 4 per cent.; of the tradesmen, 17 per cent.; of artizans, 21 per 
 cent.; and of undescribed, 21 per cent.; those are deaths from epidem- 
 ics. It is also reported from Bethnal-green, that 8 per cent, of gentry, 
 22 per cent, of tradesmen, and 27 per cent, of artizans, die of epidemic 
 diseases, and those epidemics, typhus, and that is ascribed more or less 
 to bad drainage] I cannot pretend to go against medical opinion, but 
 in those cases, the poorer the locality the greater the per centage of 
 typhus. Bethnal-green is in that situation. Hackney is a verj^ healthy 
 district. The per centage is less there than at Bethnal-green, where 
 the people are starving ; and if the gentry were reduced by want of 
 food, bad lodging, and bad clothing, to the same situation as those peo- 
 ple are, the state of things would be reversed. 
 
 You consider Hackney a healthy district] It is so considered. 
 
 It stands thus : the average of deaths of gentry, 47 years ; tradesmen, 
 29 ; artizans, 27, and persons undescribed, 25. Every tradesman who 
 lives in the Hackney district, according to this return, loses ten years 
 of his life, and every operative twelve ? So it appears by that return. 
 
 Has the state of the Burr street district been much altered since the 
 cholera appeared, in respect of drainage? Some little alteration has 
 been made by the Dock Company, but there has not been much altera- 
 tion ; no district can be better drained than that. There are sewers in 
 the streets. 
 
 Here is the account given of it : " What is the condition of the 
 houses in the district inhabited by the laboring classes ? Very bad. It 
 
402 MINCTTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 was the practice to pump the water out of the cellars which had got up 
 into the houses by infiltration from the river, or more frequently by 
 flowing in through the house-drains from the sewers when the tides 
 forced back the water into the house. The stench from the water 
 pumped out from the cellars was often intolerable, so much so, that I 
 was accustomed to [go out of the way to avoid it. Were cesspools 
 general? Yes. They percolated the substratum 1 Of course. And 
 the river water percolating through the substratum, carried with it the 
 matter from these cesspools? Of course ; and the river itseli there 
 was very impure ; a large sewer discharged itself into the river nearly 
 opposite to Tower street." Then he asked: "What were the 
 means adopted in your district to improve its cleanliness? Cleaning 
 the drains and the surface of the streets. Were any means taken to 
 remove the filth ? Yes, but this was done unskilfully, and under the 
 influence of great alarm. They opened the drains and cleansed them 
 out; they also opened cesspools, and placed the contents in heaps on 
 the surface, where they were allowed to remain and accumulate for 
 the convenience of cartage. This matter was highly offensive when 
 first placed on the surface, and produced, in some cases, an intolerable 
 stench, so that I thought at the time the very means taken to lessen 
 the disease tended to increase the evil." You say that your men em- 
 ployed in that way received no injury? No; but we did not cleanse 
 the drains and gulley-holes ; those are parochial matters. The refuse 
 from the sewers when opened was carted away as soon as possible ; it 
 was no longer upon the surface than a sufficient time to be got into 
 carts and carried off. 
 
 W T hat do the men do with the matter taken from the sewers in your 
 district ; do they sell it? No ; they are very glad to give it away, and 
 give 6d. a load for any one to take it ; there is no more virtue in 
 it than in so much sand. The manure I consider is taken into the 
 Thames. 
 
 How do nightmen dispose of the night-soil? They take it into the 
 country. 
 
 Do you know what they sell it at ? J do not. 
 
 Have you had any applications for sewer-water in any way in your 
 neighborhood ? No . 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 403 
 
 No. 30. 
 WILLIAM BAKER, Jr., Esq*. 
 
 You are clerk to the Commissioners of Sewers for Poplar Mars'o ? 
 Yes. 
 
 Since your last examination what has been the progress of the Com- 
 mission ? what works have been executed ? Describe them 1 I men- 
 tioned in my last examination, in 1843, that this district, originally a 
 mere marsh, was in a state of transition, and that the establishment of 
 numerous factories would probably lead to an increase in the number 
 of dwellings, principally for the laboring classes. That expectation 
 has been realized to some extent, and particularly along the line of 
 the western branch of the Ferry road, and its immediate vicinity. That 
 branch traverses the marsh in a direction nearly from north to south, 
 and was fenced on either side by open marsh ditches, and it occurred 
 to the Commissioners to be highly expedient to form a covered sewer 
 down the centre of that road, to receive the drainage of the new build- 
 ings, supersede the open ditches, and place the sewage of the level on a 
 basis more conformable to its altered character and growing importance 
 as a manufacturing district. A sewer to extend about one mile and a half 
 in length has been accordingly commenced. The first branch of this work 
 extends half a mile in length, and has been completed at a cost of 1012/., 
 including a branch down Alfred street. A good fall has been obtained, 
 and by the introduction of water from the inlets on the west side of the 
 marsh, the sewer can be readily scoured out, and the periodical cost of 
 cleansing thereby rendered very moderate. A very extensive work 
 has-been for some time in progress under the direction of Mr. William 
 Cubitt, who is enclosing the foreland and constructing a, new river wall 
 from the ferry house, nearly opposite Greenwich, to the Folly House, 
 a distance of about a mile, by which means several acres of land, form- 
 erly merely osier beds, will be rendered available for the erection of 
 factories and other buildings. 
 
 Have you a cross section of the sewer you have referred to 1 Yes, I 
 now produce one. 
 
 What was the rate of charge ? 33s, 6d. per yard, including excava- 
 tion and making good the road. 
 
 What extent of land or houses will, be drained by this sewer? By 
 that portion which is at present executed, nearly two hundred houses 
 already existing, most of them newly built, and some factories may be 
 
 drained. 
 
 26 
 
404 MINUTE9 OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Have you made any alteration in system? 
 We have adopted a new mode of forming 
 commuications with^ sewers by means of 
 drain tiles. The tiles form a drain of nine 
 inches in diameter, and are in two pieces, 
 one overlapping 1 the other. I produce a 
 specimen. 
 
 What is your charge to the owner of the 
 house for laying on house-drains? The 
 charge has hitherto been 9s. 6c/., to include 
 the cost of the tiles, and the labor attending the connecting them with 
 the sewer, and setting in cement. The work is executed by a builder 
 who contracts for that purpose with the Commissioners ; but a reduction 
 of the charge is contemplated, and other builders are about to be em- 
 ployed accordingly, on trial, under the direction of our surveyors. 
 
 When you formed your sewer, what proportion of persons availed 
 themselves of it? Nearly one-fourth. We gave notice to parties at 
 the time of the formation of the sewer, and invited them to communi- 
 cate then ; when the ground being excavated and the works in prog- 
 ress, the communication could have been made more conveniently and 
 at less expense ; but the comparatively small number of persons who 
 have availed themselves of the advantage offered, shows that some- 
 thing more than the influence of mere persuasion and example is 
 needed to secure to the individuals themselves, and to the public who 
 pay for it, the full benefit of the new sewer. 
 
 Have you had any complaint from the vestry or parochial authorities 
 as to the state of the sewerage, or any suggestions for its improvement ? 
 No. 
 
 Supposing the power were given to the vestry, by representation or 
 otherwise, would the science of drainage be improved ? I think not. 
 State your reasons ? If the power were given to the vestry by re- 
 presentation, it is probable that the election would be confined to such 
 resident rate-payers as have filled the parochial offices, to the entire 
 exclusion of the landowners and proprietors of the larger establish- 
 ments, not from the unpopularity of the latter, but from the circum- 
 stance of their not being in the habit of attending the vestry meetings, 
 and not making the same interest with the rate-payers to secure their 
 return. It would virtually be a transfer of powerjfrom the owners, to 
 the occupying tenants and persons of short interests, and I cannot 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 405 
 
 think that that would be a wise measure which should exclude such a 
 very important class. If the power were given to the vestry to act 
 directly ', and not by representation, it would then, I think, be manifest, 
 that such a numerous body would be incompetent to deal with admin- 
 istrative details. The business of a Court of Sewers is unfitted for the 
 discussion of popular assemblies, and will be the more unfit as it in- 
 creases in the science demanded, arid more especially if combined with 
 other works. Even in the present state of knowledge possessed with 
 regard to drainage and uncombined with other works, it is difficult 
 where the details are so infinite, and such constant reference necessary to 
 plans and sections to elucidate every question, to get more than a small 
 minority of a Board to follow, with the requisite attention, every matter 
 in the agenda. I have had some experience of the conduct of Paro- 
 chial Boards, and no one estimates the good qualities which they really do 
 possess more highly than I do, for instance, the willing and cheerful man- 
 ner in which they tax themselves for the support of the poor : but I doubt 
 whether the same liberality would be evinced in favor of 'other objects, 
 the urgency of which is less immediately pressing and obvious. Take, 
 for instance, the small amount of salary usually allowed to parish 
 surveyors, and the sparingness with which money is applied to public 
 improvements. How much better, for example, was the state of repair 
 of the New-road St. Pancras, when formerly under the care of the 
 Metropolis Roads Commission, than of late under parochial manage- 
 ment. 
 
 To what description of administrative body then, do you consider 
 that the local management in reference to drainage may most safely 
 be confided? There can be no doubt, that under judicious super- 
 intendence great public benefit may result from a comprehensive 
 measure of sanitary reform. The success of the movement must 
 mainly depend on its being carried out by persons of education, intel- 
 ligence, and experience in the despatch of business, and free from 
 contracted notions on subjects of finance. The proposition contained 
 in the Health of Towns Bill of last Session, that one third of the gov- 
 erning body should be Commissioners appointed by the Crown, ap- 
 pears to have been founded on a just appreciation of the importance of 
 retaining the services of part, at least, of the old body of Commissioners 
 of Sewers, or persons of their class. Those who are practically ac- 
 quainted with the various minute details of the business of Courts of 
 Sewersj which can only be impressed on the memory by local know- 
 
406 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 ledge and association, can well understand the value of that consecutive 
 and traditional information which such Commissioners have the oppor- 
 tunity of acquiring, and the power to communicate. The proposed 
 retention by the Crown of the power of nomination to this limited 
 extent seems to imply a doubt, whether, under the elective principle, 
 the persons most qualified by previous habits and experience, such 
 as some of the old Commissioners, would be returned. Many of that class 
 indeed, who have regularly attended the Court of Sewers, for a long 
 series of years, would most certainly shrink from undergoing the ordeal 
 of a public election, and the ground would thus be left clear for others 
 less qualified, but who, in their turn, would acquire knowledge and ex- 
 perience, and ultimately become useful ; but, in the mean time, how 
 are the pressing exigencies of the sanitary movement to be satisfied 1 In 
 some of the Poor Law Unions, there have not been wanting symptoms 
 of jealously between the elected and the ex-officio Guardians ; at all 
 events, the success of that, arrangement does not appear to have been 
 sufficiently decisive to encourage the repetition of the experiment. On 
 the whole, in my humble judgment, there does not seem any just 
 ground, why the Crown Commissioners should not be entrusted, for a 
 further term of years, with the duty of carrying into effect those addi- 
 tional powers for the public benefit, which they have by their chair- 
 man and officers for several years past urged on the attention of suc- 
 cessive Parliamentary Committees and Commissions of Inquiry. 
 
 Do you consider that the superintendence of paving, and of the 
 supply of water and gas, may be advantageously combined with that 
 of the draining 1 Gas works have for some time been established in 
 that part of our district called the Isle of Dogs ; and the East London 
 Water Company have recently laid down their mains there, having 
 contrived to overcome the obstacles which presented themselves in 
 consequence of the southern part of the marsh being insulated by the 
 formation of the West India Docks, and what was formerly called the 
 City Canal. The supply of water and gas may be readily provided 
 for by empowering those who have charge of the drainage to contract 
 on moderate terms with the water and gas Companies ; and great ad- 
 vantage would result to the poorer classes from rendering the supply of 
 water cheaper and more abundant ; but in our district we have an 
 ample supply for all purposes of drainage. But whatever may be the 
 constitution of the governing body, I am of opinion that the attempt 
 to combine the paving and drainage would signally fail, and go far to 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 407 
 
 neutralize any benefit to be derived from the increased powers with 
 respect to sewage. 
 
 What are the grounds of that opinion'? It was formerly considered 
 that the ends of efficiency, particularly in matters of detail, were best 
 promoted by a judicious subdivision of labor ; but that doctrine seems 
 in danger of being lost sight of in the rage for*onsoli'dation. The 
 questions connected with paving, particularly in the suburbs of London, 
 require exact local knowledge, and much discrimination in dealing with 
 them, and may well continue to engage the attention of a separate 
 Board, and a consplidation of Paving Boards may be very desirable. 
 If all streets and roads were to be deemed public property, were all in 
 an equally advanced state, and there were an inexhaustable supply of 
 stone, it would be easy to generalize and introduce a very desirable 
 uniformity, by paving them all on the same principle, and much dis- 
 cussion might thereby be saved. But every day new private roads and 
 streets are being formed ; some wholly, and others partially, dedicated 
 to the public ; some have foot pavements, others are merely gravelled 
 with a stone kerb ; almost all are in a state of transition. It is difficult 
 enough to raise money for these purposes by rates under present cir- 
 cumstances ; if combined with other objects and a more liberal expen- 
 diture, the difficulty will probably be increased; and in balancing be- 
 tween the contending claims of drainage and paving, there is too much 
 reason to fear that the operations of the Board would be contracted, 
 the paving and drainage would alike suffer, and the important object 
 of a vigorous and liberal administration for the removal of nuisances 
 and the promotion of the public health greatly discouraged. The 
 combination suggested is presumed to rest on the supposed convenience 
 of having these different services provided for under one establishment 
 and* one governing body, so that the various operations might be car- 
 ried on simultaneously, and the ground disturbed once only instead of 
 twice or thrice. But assuming drainage to be of a paramount im- 
 portance, if the authorities were to wait until there were a concurrence 
 of favorable circumstances, such as the paving, water-pipes, and drain- 
 age in a particular locality, all requiring attention at the same moment, 
 or even the pavement and drainage only, it would seem that procras- 
 tination, rather than increased vigor and efficiency, would be the 
 result. The Board would be perplexed with the pros and cons where 
 a multitude of different objects were to be kept in view and reconciled. 
 The combination may answer in the city of London, where the streets 
 are all formed and paved, but in our district the case would be different,. 
 
V 
 
 408 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 You are clerk to a Board distinguished by the peculiarity of having 
 laid down a stoneway ; what was the original cost, and what the 
 annual cost ? I am acting clerk pro tempore to the Commercial-road 
 Trust. The original cost for a single line of stojieway extending from 
 the West India Docks to Whitechapel, a distance of two miles, was 
 nearly 22,000/., ana portions of it have been repaired since its forma- 
 tion*, about 18 years ago, at an expense amounting to about 238S/. 
 
 Has the experience been such, that if you were to begin de novo 
 you would adopt the stoneway? I think it probable that we should, 
 if we could maintain the same rate of tolls ; but the system does not 
 appear to be one likely to be generally extended. 
 
 Why not ? Because a stoneway is so expensive as to be only adapted 
 for roads, where there is traffic with heavy goods sufficiently extensive 
 to remunerate for the outlay. In very narrow thoroughfares, where 
 only one carriage can pass at a time, it may be advantageously laid 
 down, but generally in other thoroughfares it will not answer, as there 
 is no holding ground for the horses feet unless the carriage keeps in the 
 exact tract. 
 
 What is the advantage gained in respect of ease of draught? I will 
 hand in a copy of a memorandum, of the result of certain experiments 
 made on the first opening of a portion of the stoneway. It must be 
 recollected, however, that the benefit resulting from ease of draught is 
 to a great extent neutralized by the necessity of employing increased 
 power to convey the load from the end of the stoneway to its desti- 
 nation. 
 
 " Limehouse, 12th March, 1829. 
 u GENTLEMEN : 
 
 " I beg to report the results of the experiments made this day, 
 upon the stone-tramway now forming on the Commercial-road, before 
 you, accompanied by the chairman and deputy-chairman of the West 
 India Dock Company, and Mr. Colville, one of the directors. 
 
 " The experiments were made upon the space between the W T est 
 India Dock-gate and the first turnpike upon the Commercial-road 
 with a very good town wagon belonging to Messrs. Smith and Sons' 
 distillery, and a stone truck belonging to Messrs. Freeman. The dust 
 had been swept off the tramway in the morning. 
 
 " The distance is 550 feet, of which 250 feet, nearest the dock gate, 
 rises 1 foot, or 1 in 250 ; and the other 300 feet rises about 2| feet, or 
 1 in 116. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 409 
 
 " The whole rise in the 550 feet is 3| feet or 1 in 155. 
 
 " The gravity of 1 ton upon the lower length is therefore 2240 Ibs., 
 divided by 250, or nearly 9 IbsJ 
 
 " Upon the upper length it is 2240 Ibs. 
 
 divided by 116, which is equal to 19^ Ibs. 
 
 "And the average of gravity upon the whole length is 2240 l^s. 
 divided by 155, or 14| Ibs. 
 
 " Experiment 1st. The general average resistance of 4 tons gross 
 (viz., wagon 1 ton 15 cvvt., and goods 2 tons 4 cwt.), as ascertained 
 by your chairman and Mr. Colville, by means of a spring weigh ing- 
 nitichine, was 127 Ibs. 
 
 " From which if we deduct the gravity of 4 tons, or 19J Ibs. 
 multiplied by 4, say t 77 Ibs. 
 
 "There is left for the friction of 4 tons 50 Ibs., which gives for the 
 friction of 1 ton 12-J- Ibs, or j| of the whole weight moved. 
 
 " This friction is not more than upon the best constructed edge rail- 
 way. I consider that the greater size of our wheels, and there being 
 no ftanch, compensate for the roughness of the stones (from their being 
 newly laid) as compared with an iron railway. 
 
 " Experiment 2nd.- A pony 12J hands high, weight 4J cwt., drew 
 upon the upper part in your presence, and afterwards upon the lower 
 part in yours and the directors' presence, 6 tons (gross). I was not 
 aware that the difference of inclination of the two parts was so great, 
 or he should have gone over the upper length again ; he had done it 
 more than once before. 
 
 li Taking, therefore, the upper part, or the rise of 1 in 
 
 116, the pony's exertion was gravity 19J Ibs. 
 
 Multiplied by 6 tons, or , :. 116 Ibs. 
 
 Friction 12| Ibs., multiplied by 6 tons, or 75 Ibs. 
 
 Making together t * 191 Ibs. 
 
 and 191 Ibs. divided by 12| Ibs. (the friction of 1 ton), gives 15 tons. 
 
 " The pony's work, therefore, was equal to 15 tons, drawn upon a 
 level road. 
 
 " Experiment 3d. The wagon (loaded as in preceding experiment,) 
 being turned round, and started by the pony's exertion, ran down the 
 whole length to the dock gates, with increasing velocity, (the pony not 
 drawing it,) and for a distance off the tramway before it could be stop- 
 ped, consequently, the average fall of 1 in 155 exceeded the resistance 
 by friction . 
 
410 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 <c Experiment 4th. A powerful horse (weight 14 cwt.,) drew 12 tons 
 gross (the wagon and truck loaded,) from the West India Dock-gate to 
 'the turnpike, at the rate of 4 miles per hour. 
 
 " Taking, then, .the upper length, or a rise of 1 in 116, we have : 
 
 Gravity 12 times, 19J Ibs., or 232 Ibs. 
 
 m Friction 12 times, 12J Ibs., or. . c 150 Ibs. 
 
 Making together. 382 Ibs. 
 
 And 382 Ibs. divided by 12J gives 30J tons. 
 
 " The horse's work was therefore the same as if he had been draw- 
 
 9 
 
 ing 30J tons upon a level. 
 
 " The full average work of a horse per day is 150 lbs. } moved 20 
 miles . 
 
 " Consequently, the pony was exerting one-fourth more than the ave- 
 rage work of one horse through the day, and the horse, was doing the 
 work of two and a half horses. 
 
 " The horse appeared to go easily, but the exertion was, of course, 
 too great to be continued for any considerable time, so as to form a 
 basis for general calculation. 
 
 " Upon the whole, I think the conclusion is, that if the road were 
 level, the work of a London draught-horse upon the tramway would 
 be 10 i-ons (gross,) but as the Commercial road rises towards London, a 
 deduction must be made from this for gravity, the amount of which 
 depends upon the inclination of the road, and is common to all kinds 
 of roads and railways. 
 
 " Therefore, taking all things into consideration, I am of opinion, 
 that six tons (gross) from the Docks to Whitechapel, and a greater 
 weight from Whitechapel to the Docks, may be considered a proper 
 load for one horse on the tramway. 
 
 "I am Gentlemen, very obediently, yours, 
 
 (Signed,) " JAS. WALKER, 
 
 " To Chas. H. Turner, Esq., Chairman, 
 
 and the Trustees of the Commercial road." 
 
 Have iron tramways been suggested as worth a trial 1 Iron has been 
 laid down to a very limited extent on our road by way of experiment. 
 It is more lasting than stone, but the first cost is considerably greater. 
 The case of the Commercial road may be taken as an illustration of 
 some of the difficulties which would occur in the event of a general 
 scheme for paving being adopted. This road was made at a vast ex- 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. ' 411 
 
 pense, by a body of proprietors, at the time of the formation of the 
 West India Docks, to complete the communication between the Docks 
 and the city of London ; and the capital embarked therein, on the faith 
 of Parliament, is as much entitled to protection as that embarked in the 
 Docks themselves. This road has been held to constitute an excep- 
 tional case, and been specially exempted from the operation of Gene- 
 ral Turnpike Act. It would be manifestly unfair, to transfer the man- 
 agement of the pavement, which it is the interest alike of the road 
 trust and the commercial community to maintain in the highest state 
 of efficiency, to a foreign body ; such, for instance, as the parishes 
 which it traverses, and which derive little or no direct profit from the 
 extensive traffic which passes before their doors on its way to the City, 
 and no adequate inducement to maintain the road in any better state 
 than the other roads throughout the parishes. 
 
 Is it the practice, under your Commission, to make a general sewers'- 
 rate, or distinct rates, for portions of your district, and have you any 
 observations to make thereon ? We have adhered to the ancient prac- 
 tice in our district, of making a general rate, it being originally a 
 marsh of one uniform level. I think it of the highest importance, that 
 when a district shall be formed, under competent authority, and after 
 due consideration, all who fall within the limits should be deemed lia- 
 ble in law, to contribute to the common fund. The promotion of the 
 general health of the district is an object of common interest to all 
 within it, and the petty subdivisions which exist, under some Commis- 
 sions, is unfavorable to comprehensive schemes of improvement, and 
 deprives the governing body of that unity of sentiment which is essen- 
 tial to harmonious action. By way of illustration, it may be stated, 
 that in some of the Poor Law Unions, where parishes have be*en pre- 
 viously inclined to a separation, the circumstance of their acquiring 
 property in common, such as an union workhouse, has proved to be a 
 bond of union, while the separate interests of parishes, under the law 
 of settlement have been frequently regretted by members of Boards of 
 Guardians, as being an obstacle to a perfect amalgamation. The same 
 principle of distribution of charges would enable us to carry out other 
 public improvements at a cost per head so moderate as to be scarcely 
 felt ; for instance, how desirable it would be to secure, for the laboring 
 classes, a few acres of land in the Isle of Dogs, as a cricket-ground, or 
 place of healthful exercise. 
 
 What extent of area have you in your district ? There are between 
 700 and 800 acies, and the district is about 5 miles in circumference. 
 
412 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Supposing- an enlargement of that area to be considered desirable, in 
 what direction do you consider that your district could best be ex- 
 tended 1 There are some peculiarities in our district : First, we have 
 river walls to maintain, extending all round our level, except on the 
 north ; Secondly, we have the High street Sewer, as it is termed, being 
 south of Poplar, High street, with which it runs parallel, and consti- 
 tuting the northern boundary of our district, being the edge or margin 
 of the ancient marsh. North of that sewer the ground immediately 
 rises a few feet to such a height as not to be exposed to any danger of 
 inundation, if the marsh were submerged by the river walls giving 
 way. This higher land drains into the High street sewer, and conse- 
 quently, derives a direct benefit from our works, particularly, the outlet 
 into the Thames at Blackwall, but not being locally situate within the 
 limits of our Commission, nor benefited by the maintenance of our 
 walls, and the owners and occupiers of land on either side of the sewer 
 having been bound " ratione te?iurce," or by prescription, to cleanse" the 
 particular sewer in question, they were, by a decision of the Court of 
 Queen's Bench, between 20 and 30 years ago, exempted from liability 
 to pay our sewers'-rates, it being held that the performance of that 
 work, the cleansing of the sewer, had been accepted by the Commis- 
 sion as an equivalent for the benefit received, and in lieu of rates. In 
 progress of time, that benefit has been extended northwards, by the 
 gradual continuation of old drains, so that owners and occupiers of pro- 
 perty in the East India Dock road, and its vicinity (within the Tower 
 Hamlets' Sewers Commission,) are deriving direct benefit from works 
 maintained at the expense of our level, to which it cannot be pretended 
 that they contribute, either directly or indirectly, neither are they rated 
 under the Tower Hamlets' Commission, which s I believe, has no works 
 in that direction eastward of North street. Again, the very ground of 
 exemption claimed for the higher lands nearest the High street Sewer 
 may be said to have failed, inasmuch as the owners and occupiers have, 
 of late years, ceased altogether to perform the service on which they 
 relied for such exemption. The West India Dock Company, being 
 owners to the southward, were quite willing to continue to cleanse their 
 own half of the sewer ; but, in consequence of the impossibility of 
 getting the work performed simultaneously by the numerous inhabi- 
 tants of Poplar, High street, liable for the other half on the northern 
 side, the cleansing has, in point of fact, been executed by the parish 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 413 
 
 authorities, and thus the level, either in the shape of parochial or sew_ 
 ers'-rates, sustains the double burthen of repairing the outlet, and 
 cleansing the sewer, while the parties principally benefited escape the 
 contribution to the sewer'-rate. The extension of the district north- 
 wards, and the enforcing contributions from all who derive direct benefit 
 from the works of the Commission, would be at once an appropriate 
 remedy for this injustice, and the means for securing, to the East India 
 Dock road and its vicinity, a still more ample participation in the be.ne- 
 fits to be derived from our sewers and outlet. The next peculiarity in 
 our district is that since the formation of the Blackwall railway, it re- 
 ceives a portion of the drainage of the small level adjoining to ours to 
 the eastward, called the " Bromley-marsh Level," but without being 
 able to receive rates in respect thereof. That level, (although in Mid- 
 dlesex,) is included in the Essex Commission, and (he Courts of Sewers 
 are held at Ilford. It contains 202 acres, and is bounded on the east 
 by the river Lea, and on the south by the river Thames. Being a 
 marsh, with comparatively few buildings, and with river walls to main- 
 tain, it is a district very similar in character to ours, and the two have 
 comparatively very little in common with the neighbouring Tower 
 Hamlets' Sewers Commission. It is submitted, therefore, that they 
 might, with great propriety, be included in the same metropolitan dis- 
 trict, whatever it may be, that may ultimately be determined on for 
 this part of the suburbs of London. By a singular chance, it already 
 happens, that the respective offices of marsh-bailiff, and surveyor for 
 the Poplar and Bromley levels are held at the present moment by the 
 same identical individuals. On the whole, I am strongly of opinion, 
 (and in which I am confirmed, by that of our surveyors, who are, also, 
 civil engineers, and of high standing,) that instead of merging the 
 Poplar and Bromley Commissions in that for the Tower Hamlets, 
 which is already quite sufficiently extensive for the proper despatch of 
 its large and increasing business, it would be more for the public in- 
 terest to constitute a new eastern district, to include the Poplar and 
 Bromley levels, and a small portion of the Tower Hamlets district, viz., 
 to comprise the parishes of Poplar, Bromley, and Bow, the two latter 
 of which are not at present rated under the Tower Hamlets Commis- 
 sion, (except to a very limited extent,) and the small portion of the 
 parish of Limehouse, at present within the limits of the Poplar Com- 
 mission. The district so constituted, would be co-extensive with the 
 Poplar Poor Law Union, with the addition of the small part of Lime- 
 
414 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 house just referred to. It would contain about 2200 acres, would be 
 about 12 miles in circumference, bounded on three of its sides by the 
 river Thames and'the river Lea, distinguished by general uniformity of 
 character, and attended with this advantage?, that the drainage from 
 the northern portion of it, as well as the southern, would be discharged 
 into the river Thames, four miles lower down the stream than by the 
 outlet of the Town Hamlet sewers. It is all likely to be built upon, 
 and will, eventually, become a populous district. I produce a rough 
 sketch or plan, with the levels, distinguished by different colours, 
 showing the proposed additions. 
 
 Your father is one of the coroners for Middlesex. In a letter which 
 he has recently addressed to Lord Morpeth, he has strongly recom- 
 mended that power should be conferred for borrowing money, for the 
 purposes of sewage, to be repaid by instalments, have you at all con- 
 sidered the subject? In my examination under the Commission of 
 Inquiry, in 1843, I urged that power should be given to borrow money 
 on the credit of the rates, and to extend the repayment over a series of 
 years. Also, that great benefit would result if power were given to 
 effect an equitable adjustment between owners and tenants of the pro- 
 portions in which they were to contribute to the expense of new works 
 according to their interests. Subsequent experience and reflection have 
 confirmed that impression. We frequently hear of obstacles being in- 
 terposed to drainage, by the tenant contending that he has too short an 
 interest, and the owner urging that his interest is too remote". If a 
 large owner, he is frequently embarrassed by the consideration of the 
 cases of his numerous tenants, whose terms are of various duration, 
 and no ready mode of apportioning the charge between them and him- 
 self presenting itself, combined with the difficulty of procuring the 
 money, the work is left unexecuted. The fairest, and most practical 
 course which I have heard suggested is, to permit money to be ad- 
 vanced to be repaid by equal instalments of principal and interest ex- 
 tending over a period of 30 years, the work being, in the nature of a 
 permanent improvement, to be deemed as worth 30 years purchase, the 
 tenant, with a 10 years or other term, to pay for the period of his oc- 
 cupancy, the remainder to be paid by the reversioner, the charge to be 
 levied from the 4enant, except where houses are let as weekly tene- 
 ments, in which case it should be primarily levied from the owner. As 
 the tenant always pays in the shape of rent, for permanent imple- 
 ments, such an arrangement would, of course, be no hardship to him . 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 415 
 
 It would work beneficially, both for landlord and tenant, and eventu- 
 ally tend to the advantage of all classes of the community. 
 
 You have given the Commissioners in the former part of your evi- 
 dence some remarks upon the consolidation of various Boards for the 
 purpose of carrying- out both paving and sewage. The Commisioners 
 understood you to think that some consolidation of the Paving Boards 
 might advantageously take place? Yes. 
 
 What advantage do you suppose would be derived from the consoli- 
 dation of the Paving Boards'? The ordinary advantage in all con- 
 solidations is that of the reduction of unnecessary establishments, and 
 of bringing together a class of persons who would be more efficient. 
 It would be more worth while for good men to come and join a large 
 administrative Commission. 
 
 Do you mean by u good men" officers employed at a higher salary, 
 or 'the Commissioners themselves'? The Commissioners themselves. 
 
 Do you think a better class of men would stand for election ia those 
 cases? Yes, I shou-d think so. 
 
 By "Paving Boards'" yoi 1 mean bodies who are elected in certain 
 districts? Yes. 
 
 You have also stated that you do not think both the sewage and 
 paving could be very well consolidated under the same Commission, be- 
 cause it requires a good deal of local knowledge, and because it 
 might lead to procrastination. Who do the Paving Boards derive their 
 knowledge of the circumstances of their divisions from generally? 
 At present, the Paving Commissioners are all locally resident, and 
 they know the district from their own observations. 
 
 They derive their principal knowledge and advice, do not they, from 
 their surveyor ? I should doubt it. In the small divisions they have, 
 they frequently judge for themselves. They have sometimes a very 
 incompetent surveyor. 
 
 In all those matters it requires a certain degree of scientific attain- 
 ments, does not it, to carry out works under a Paving Board ? Works 
 are infinitely better done, of course, where science is brought to bear 
 upon them. 
 
 They are matters which would be infinitely better done, if people of 
 scientific qualifications were employed upon them? I understand in 
 some instances there are several separate Paving Commissions in one 
 parish. I cannot think it desirable that they should continue to exist ; 
 consolidation would be clearly beneficial there. 
 
416 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Supposing competent persons were employed, would -they not give 
 the Commission of Sewers every local knowledge which the Paving 
 Boards could possibly obtain ? I think not. I think the parties 
 would be still different ; that is to say, the parties who are now mem- 
 bers of our Poplar Sewers Commission are very different from those 
 who constitute the body of trustees of the parishes. Our Commissioners 
 are now owners of property, and connected with large establishments 
 wha do not reside there, but who live at the west end of the town, and 
 in all parts ; though they come down to attend the meetings of the 
 Commissioners of Sewers, I doubt whether they would be elected at 
 all to superintend matters of pavement. 
 
 'The question did not at all imply the necessity of election. Do not you 
 think a Commission could be appointed which could perfectly well 
 take both the sewage and the paving under one management, and 
 obtain all requisite local knowledge by the employment of competent 
 surveyors 1 My impression is, that in the circumstances you describe 
 you would not get a Board of that kind. 
 
 Are not the surveyors competent to obtain local knowledge? The 
 questions connected with marshes and river walls are so minute that 
 the local knowledge which our own Commissioners possess is exceed- 
 ingly valuable. If strangers were introduced, or even persons living 
 in Poplar High street, they would not know matters which are of great 
 importance, and which occur in reference to those marshes. It has 
 not been their business ; they have no connection with those fields or 
 marshes themselves. 
 
 Why should not those Commissioners, who meet with respect to the 
 sewers, do the paving business at the same time ? I think a Board can 
 attend to a great amount of detail, but if you throw too much upon 
 them it will fail altogether. We have two barristers, three London 
 bankers, three or four country magistrates, and people of that class 
 upon our Board. They would embrace a great amount of detail, but 
 if you overpower them with business they would decline. 
 
 Is it not a complaint with respect to existing Boards of Sewers, that 
 the Boards are often encumbered with a mass of detail business, ap- 
 provals, for instance, of plans of drains, all of which would be much 
 better dispatched upon the responsibility of a paid and competent en- 
 gineer. Have not you observed in your own Board that much business 
 has come before them which a surveyor would dispatch much better 1 
 I certainly think so ; but I do not contemplate that any surveyor 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 417 
 
 would ever be allowed to act very extensively, except under the direc- 
 tion and supervision of the Board. 
 
 Do not the defects of ?he existing- plans of drainage, and the incom- 
 petency of the surveys, occasion a great deal of occupation of the time of 
 your Boards ? Not from my experience ; it may be so in other districts, 
 but not in our district. We have an admirable plan of our own level, 
 which has been made within the last 20 or 30 years, by Messrs. Walker 
 and Burgess, on a very large scale. 
 
 Why should not business connected with the paving be done at the 
 same meeting of the Board? I think you would be obliged to have 
 separate Committees. Suppose you combine the two together, you 
 would be obliged to appoint a paving Committee and a draining 
 Committee. 
 
 Why should not they do as is done in the city of London? The 
 streets in the city are all formed and paved. 
 
 Are not your plans complete? No, they are not; at this moment 
 we have a plan of three streets across a marsh ; there is no such ques- 
 tion in the city of London. 
 
 Such matters would arise periodically as the business is increased ; 
 the question refers to your present position? For paving in the city 
 there may be a very large quantity of stones, and there may be a con- 
 tract with the paviour ; it is very easy to direct a particular street to be 
 paved, but in our district they are in a state of transition, the roads are 
 only partially formed. You would not merely order them to be paved, 
 but there would be a question whether those streets should be gravelled, 
 or in what particular way it should be done. 
 
 If an application is made for paving, you must go to the Paving 
 Board, must not you ? Yes. 
 
 If it is necessary to take up a street for the purpose of a sewer, you 
 must apply to the Paving Board ? In our district we have no paved 
 streets, or but very few. 
 
 Then you have no Paving Commissioners at all? There are trus- 
 .tees in the parish of Poplar, but it is not paved. I do not believe 
 they have more than two or three paved streets in the districts. 
 
 Who has the control of the roads in the case of a sewer being made ? 
 The trustees of the parish of Poplar, under an Act of Parliament, have 
 the general control of the roads in that district. 
 
 Must not the Commissioners of Sewers, if they want to open any of 
 those sewers, apply to the trustees for leave to do so ? A notice would 
 be necessary. 
 
418 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Would not it be a convenience to parties who wanted to make 
 sewers, io have to deal with one party only instead of with two? It 
 would be easier for a person to apply to one Board than it would to 
 two, but that amounts to very little, in my judgment. 
 
 How often do the Commissioners meet for the despatch of business ? 
 We have about three Courts a-year, and special Courts, when required 
 upon any emergency. 
 
 It does not appear, therefore, that the amount of business is very 
 heavy that they transact at the present moment? Because a great 
 portion of it is done by the officers, under the direction of the chair- 
 man, and reported at the next Court. 
 
 What, in your opinion, prevents the business being done by the 
 officers exactly in the same manner for the paving, as it is for the 
 sewerage 1 I think such a system, if very extensively carried out, 
 both with respect to paving and drainage, would not be permanently 
 satisfactory to the public. The local authorities would not be content 
 to leave matters so much to the paid officers. 
 
 You allude in some of your answers to the circumstance that the 
 open ditches are cleaned out periodically what are those periods'? 
 I am not prepared to speak precisely to the time ; when they appear 
 to require it we give notice. I think they keep constantly doing 
 something towards it, so as not to let it accumulate ioo much. 
 
 How often do yon clean out the ditches in the marshes opposite Mr. 
 Stock's house' They have men constantly at work; they do not 
 allow it to accumulate too much. 
 
 Have nof. you seen it very offensive there? I have Stated in my 
 evidence Uiat -n consequence of the difficulty of getting all the in- 
 habitants of Poplar High street to perform the work simultaneously, it 
 has been done by the parish authorities at the expense of the parish. 
 
 What work is it that the parishes have done 7 The trustees of Pop- 
 la 1 have cleansed the High street sewer, in consequence of the impos- 
 sibility of getting the occupiers in High street to perform the work 
 simultaneously. 
 
 Out of what fund have they done it ? Out of their parochial fund, 
 the highway-rate. 
 
 We'-e not ihe Commissioners of Sewers cal'ed upon to do it? No. 
 I have explained that individuals under an ancient prescription, or 
 ratione ienura, were bound to cleanse the sewer, and the performance 
 of that particular work was held by the Court of Queen's Bench a 
 ground of exemption from the sewers'-r te. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 419 
 
 What water company serves Poplar ? The East London Water 
 Works Company. 
 
 Are you aware how often they supply the courts and alleys 1 I am 
 not able to speak to that. 
 
 What parish is it that cleanses the place to which you refer? The 
 parish of All Saints Poplar. 
 
 Is not a great deal of goods carried by the Blackwall railway which 
 formerly used to go by the Commercial-road ? Yes. 
 
 Is not that the reason why the toll there should he reduced ? I 
 do not consider that, because they appear to be exposed to a severe 
 competition, that can be a good ground why the tolls which the trus- 
 tees of the road receive should be still further diminished. 
 
 Is not it a ground that the toll should be taken off almost, if there is* 
 no longer a running way upon it? A very small proportion of the 
 goods goes by railway ; it is large in amount, but relatively it is not 
 great. 
 
 There is not so much wear and tear upon the road, and consequently 
 it would appear they should not charge so high a toll 1 I should say 
 that the diminution of the wear and tear consequent upon the quantity 
 of goods carried upon the Blackwall railway would not constitute any 
 appreciable amount. 
 
 You stated that one evil which might result from the consolidation 
 of various authorities which had to do works under the road, might be 
 procrastination, because they would be waiting till several operations 
 could be simultaneously commenced. Do not you think, if the Com- 
 mission were composed of men of business, they could make their 
 arrangements without waiting too long ; at all events, do not you think 
 those arrangements more likely to be made for the benefit of the public 
 than when the authority for lifting the road is confided to the hands of 
 various bodies 1 I think if the district were small, one body could 
 superintend the whole. I think a body might superintend all the 
 affairs of one or more parishes, and attend to the drainage and every- 
 thing ; bin I do not think one body could superintend the paving and 
 draining in the Tower Hamlets Commission and the Poplar Sewers 
 Commission combined. 
 
 Do you think that if those authorities, namely, the Paving Board and 
 the Commission of Sewers, were consolidated, it would in fact really 
 lead to any procrastination ? I think it would if the district were large : 
 if it were small, it would not do so. 
 27 
 
420 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 One reason for supposing that, is that you think too large a district 
 might be overwhelmed with business? Yes. 
 
 Supposing the Commissioners not to be overwhelmed with business, 
 you probably think the larger the district the better 1 I would not say 
 the larger the district the better. That must be a matter of grave and 
 careful consideration on the part of the body on whom the responsibility 
 of forming the district devolves by law. 
 
 If proper plans and surveys are arranged, looking to the joining of 
 one sewer to another, to the finding a proper outfall, to the stating 
 what sized drain should be put in, what sort of pavement is necessary, 
 and at what time the pavements had better be lifted, will not it follow 
 that the larger the district, provided they are capable of executing the 
 business, the better the work will be done for the public, and at a small 
 expense ? I think, with a small district like my own, the paving and 
 drainage might be combined with perfect efficiency, but if you take as 
 extensive an area as the Tower Hamlet Sewers and the Poplar Sewers, 
 I am of opinion that one Board could not attend to the duties of both 
 paving and draining with satisfaction to the most intelligent part of 
 the public. 
 
 Would not that depend upon the manner in which the work was 
 done? Having had some experience myself in the management of 
 local business, I think the details would be too onerous for the Board. 
 
 It must, of course, depend upon whether they were too onerous or 
 not? Whether they would be so or not must be a matter of opinion 
 at present. 
 
 No. 31. 
 C. A. SMITH, ESQ. 
 
 Are you clerk to the magistrates of the Greenwich district? I am. 
 
 And also clerk to the Sewers Commission ? I am. 
 
 The boundaries of that Commission are the Kent and Surrey district 
 on the one side ? Yes ; on the west side. 
 
 And the head of the Ravensbourne is another boundary, and Lom- 
 bard's wall is the boundary on the east ? Yes. 
 
 Is that the eastern boundary of the parish of Greenwich ? It is. 
 
 And upon the other side is the river ? Exactly. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 421 
 
 Is the parish of Greenwich only within your Commission, or are Lee 
 and Lewisham also within it? They are : at least portions of those 
 parishes. 
 
 What is the amount of acreage actually drained within your Com- 
 mission ? It is difficult to say exactly, because the line is so uneven, 
 no plan having, to my knowledge, been taken, or at least not being in 
 existence, it would be impossible to say exactly the number of acres 
 drained. 
 
 From not having any plans of the general levels, you do not know 
 what level you are draining into 1 No. 
 
 Nor how much you have to provide for ? No. 
 
 Have you any survey of the district? Not of the entire district, but 
 of a portion of it. 
 
 What do you call a survey ? A correct plan and section of the 
 ground. 
 
 What portion of your district has been surveyed ? Only about 500 
 acres at the east end of the level corning up to the eastern boundary. 
 
 By whom was that survey made? The oldest plan is of the year 
 1745. It was made by the surveyor at the time, Mr. Skynner. It was 
 taken for the Commission. 
 
 Greenwich is the only town in the district? It is the only town. 
 Deptford adjoins, but is not within the limits of the district. 
 
 Is Greenwich completely drained and sewered ? It is not at all. 
 
 Who is your surveyor ? The surveyor of the sewers is Mr. Richard 
 Smirke Martyr. 
 
 If there are no sewers it is of no use having a surveyor ? He is sur- 
 veyor for that portion of the level which I have described as having 
 been drained. 
 
 That is surface drainage ? Yes; and also with a view to prevent 
 the irruption of the tidal waters by the maintenance of the river banks. 
 
 Is much of the land there below high-water mark? It is; a con- 
 siderable portion of the town of Greenwich is below high-water mark. 
 
 Who pays the expenses of the surface drainage ? It is paid for by 
 the owners of the land in the East Greenwich level, that portion to 
 which the survey I have referred to applies. 
 
 Those owners pay the general expenses of the whole Commission ? 
 They do ; there is no other fund. 
 
 Can you state what your rates are ; how much in the pound each 
 year ? The rate for the current year is Is. 2d. in the pound. 
 
422 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Have you a rate every year? Yes ; once in the year only. 
 
 Would that give a fair notion of the average rate, Is. 2d. in the 
 pound ? No ; it is less this year than it has been for many years ; in 
 the last 13 years the rates have been as high as 3s. 6d. in the pound, 
 and this Is. 2d. is the lowest rate that has been made. 
 
 What is the inclination of the land as regards the river, does it drop 
 towards or from the river ? It falls inland from the banks of the river, 
 generally. 
 
 Therefore, you have great difficulty in getting outlets for the drain- 
 age ? Yes. 
 
 Have you ever considered the expediency of pumping at all, or is 
 your drainage of 500 acres only on so small a scale that you bave not 
 thought it necessary to enter into that consideration ? I have never 
 heard that that has been suggested. 
 
 But you find a great difficulty with regard to the outfall ? We do. 
 
 Are any of the cesspools required to be built water-tight? No ; they 
 become, to a certain extent, water-tight, from constant use ; from the 
 multiplication of cesspools in a particular locality, they act one upon 
 the other, and in wet weather there is an oozing from the cesspools, 
 and they become, to a certain extent, water-tight, and overflow. 
 
 Does that cause the gravel to bind ? It fills up the interstices of the 
 gravel, and prevents its oozing through. 
 
 Into what outlets do they overflow? Into the channels and kennels 
 of the street. 
 
 Are there drains leading them into any kennel? No. 
 
 Will you explain to the Commission how they overflow? Through 
 the premises of the parties. 
 
 Are the cesspools level with the street? Many of them are. 
 
 Not in the basement story ? The lower part may be to the extent 
 of the basement story, but the top part will be level with jhe street. 
 
 The river overflows there ? Yes, at high tide. 
 
 That is the reason the cesspools are not carried to a^greater depth ? 
 Yes ; that is the difficulty in the way of carrying them to a greater 
 depth. 
 
 What is the amount of rental in your district upon which you have 
 power to make a rate ? The present rental is <6,965. 
 
 Does that include Greenwich ? Only the part I have referred to, 
 there is no rate whatever upon the town. 
 
 Where is the expenditure of Is. 2e2. in the pound made? Upon the 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 423 
 
 500 acres, for the surface drainage, to keep the common sewers of that 
 part clear, and also to maintain the banks of the river. 
 
 A large portion must be expended upon the banks of the river ? Yes ; 
 it is principally expended upon the banks of the river. 
 
 No system of town sewerage, as you have already stated, has been 
 laid done? None whatever. 
 
 Are the inhabitants in the habit of pumping matter from their cess- 
 pools into the streets ? They are. 
 
 Where does it go to? It goes into the street-kennels, and then into 
 the river ; it runs on the surface. 
 
 Do you know anything of the state of those parts of Lee and Lewis- 
 ham, which are comprised in your district ; have they any sewerage ? 
 None whatever; nothing but surface drainage. 
 
 Where docs the Ravensbourne run into the river ? At Deptford 
 Creek. 
 
 That is employed as the principal sewer for Lee and Lewisham ? 
 Yes. 
 
 Have any complaints been made to you of the state of the sewerage 
 in Lewisham ? There have been recently complaints made. 
 
 Have any steps been taken to remedy it ? There is a Special Court 
 convened for the 30th of this month, for the purpose of examining into 
 the complaint, and seeing what can be done to remedy it. 
 
 What assessment do you make upon Greenwich ? None whatever, 
 except upon that portion of Greenwich to which I have referred. 
 
 The east part of Greenwich ? Yes. I may, perhaps, be allowed to 
 say, that the Commission exists under an old Act of Henry VIII, and 
 the rate that has been made has always been employed for the purpose 
 of keeping up the banks of the river, preventing the irruption of the 
 tidal waters, and providing for the surface drainage of this part of 
 Greenwich, and no local Act having been obtained by the Commis- 
 sioners, they have no adequate powers to carry out a system of house- 
 drainage. 
 
 ' Have you ever made an application to Parliament for powers to 
 carry out a system of house-drainage in Greenwich ? No ; the matter 
 has been under the consideration of the Commissioners from time to 
 time, but it has not reached the point of their carrying out a system of 
 drainage ; the expense is the serious difficulty. 
 
 Was not the town of Greenwich seriously visited with cholera? It 
 was ; the lower part principally. 
 
424 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 The cholera was remarkably prevalent there ? Yes. 
 
 And chiefly confined to that part ? Yes. 
 
 Are there in Greenwich a great many small tenements ? Yes, a 
 good many. 
 
 Whom are they inhabited by 1 By the watermen, to a great extent, 
 and people connected with the factories in the neighborhood, and small 
 shopkeepers. 
 
 Your whole district is greatly increasing in buildings 1 Very much so. 
 
 Of what sort ; of the smaller or middle class, or larger? Not per- 
 haps of the higher class, but of the small class and middling class of 
 houses. 
 
 Would it not be of great importance for such a district as that, not 
 only for the relief of the present population, but for the accommodation 
 of the future population, that the drainage should be as early as possible 
 systematized? Yes, I think so decidedly. 
 
 A great increased value would be given to tenements in consequence 
 of that ? No doubt of it. 
 
 You are no doubt aware also of the great importance in regiard fa 
 drainage that are going on in some parts of the adjacent county of 
 Kent, for instance ? Yes. 
 
 And the land in and about Greenwich would also be benefited by 
 the adoption of a general system of drainage which would facilitate 
 an early extension of those improvements in land drainage which 
 have been carried on in some parts of Kent ? I am not sufficient- 
 ly acquainted with the system of land drainage to speak to that 
 point. I would only say with reference to that point, that the imme- 
 diate neighborhood that I am speaking of, of the district of our Com- 
 mission in the parish of Greenwich is of a nature that I doubt whether 
 that system of land drainage is likely to be applied usefully there; for 
 this reason it is very limited in extent, and it is almost daily being con- 
 verted into building land ; it is therefore absorbing that species of land 
 to which .land drainage can be applied. 
 
 You are, however, well aware of the great importance that a good 
 survey would be for that purpose ? No doubt it is very important. 
 
 Would it not be highly beneficial to your district to define your 
 boundaries which are now perfectly undefined, and with a view to pre- 
 pare for future improvement, that you should have a survey on the 
 best possible svstem? There is no question of it. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 425 
 
 Therefore, if any general survey be determined upon for the metro- 
 polis at large, it is highly important for such a suburb as yours, in order 
 to lay the foundation for a good drainage ? Certainly. 
 
 And it is also important that you should have practically carried out 
 a good system of drainage founded upon that survey ? No doubt of it. 
 
 Are you likely to get such a survey as a separate operation for your- 
 self? I have great doubt about it. 
 
 At all events, whatever skill is brought to bear upon the service of 
 drainage, or upon the carrying it out in the metropolis, it would be of 
 importance to the improvement to the property as well as the health 
 of your district that you should be comprehended within that limit 1 
 Certainly. 
 
 Do you happen to know, from your general knowledge of the dis- 
 trict adjoining that comprised within the Commission of Greenwich, 
 whether there is any improvement on your condition in the Gravesend 
 level ? The next principal town to ours to the eastward is the town of 
 Woolwich, and I think I may say that there is no system of house, 
 drainage there any more than there is in our parish ; but it is not of so 
 much importance there, because the high land comes precipitantly 
 upon the river. There is not any extent of low marshy ground be- 
 tween the river and the high ground at Woolwich. 
 
 From neither the parish nor any of the persons resident in it have 
 you had any plan of drainage proposed ? None whatever. A few 
 years ago there was a company attempted to be formed for the purpose 
 of sewering the town of Greenwich, and notices were given for an Act 
 of Parliament to be applied for ; but it came to nothing ; the Act was 
 not applied for ; it was intended to be a private joint stock matter, and 
 it failed ; it was not proceeded with. 
 
 Did your Commission entertain it, or did they oppose it ? It never 
 came before them in such a shape as to enable them to give an opinion 
 upon it ; it was merely a, project ; the parties 1 went no further than the 
 advertisements for the application to Parliament. 
 
 Is not the sewerage at the back of Greenwich Hill, where it runs into 
 the Ravensbourne river, in a very bad state 1 Very bad ; there is one 
 place particularly where there has been an excavation of chalk, it is 
 called Loats Pits, and from the excavation carrying the level lower 
 than the level of the adjoining ground, and being a very large excava- 
 tion, which is now turned into building ground, the water from the 
 houses drains into those pits and becomes stagnant, and is very offen- 
 sive, and it has been very frequently complained of. 
 
426 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 Is that near Perm's manufactory ? Not very far from it, on the left 
 hand side nearer Lefwisham. 
 
 The inhabitants there are of a very low description, are they not 1 
 They are ; the Vicar of Lewisham, the Honourable and Reverend Mr. 
 Legge, has frequently made complaints of it, and has attended our 
 meetings, with a view to get something done, but he has never been 
 able to get anything done, from want of power in the Commission to do 
 anything. 
 
 It appears, upon reference to the returns from the Greenwich district, 
 that the number of deaths from epidemics, at times, has been between 
 300 and 400 a-year. From your knowledge of the state of the district, 
 are you surprised that a considerable number of deaths from epidemics, 
 has taken place there ? I am not at all surprised, from the state of the 
 lower part of the town, with respect to drainage. 
 
 And also looking at the state of Lewisham and the other districts ? 
 Exactly. 
 
 At present, unless provision be made, and on some comprehensive 
 scale an extension of buildings within that district will carry with it an 
 extension of evils 1 Quite so ; it is very important that any measure 
 of that kind should be adopted before any increase of buildings goes on, 
 which will render it more difficult. 
 
 And the sooner those measures are adopted the more economical they 
 will be ? No doubt of it. 
 
 Your district is unencumbered with any old defective works, and 
 therefore, in a state to enable you to begin any new works, except as 
 regards the removal of the cesspools ? Yes ; I have not mentioned that 
 there is a cesspool connected with Greenwich Hospital, but that is solely 
 for that building and for certain houses connected with the estate. 
 
 That discharges into the Thames 1 Yes. 
 
 Is it from any particular circumstances that the Commission are about 
 to take into consideration the want of sewerage in Greenwich ; is it 
 from any application having been made ? From the general com- 
 plaint that has been made by parties of the bad state of the town and 
 the want of sewerage, and the Commissioners of Sewers considering 
 themselves the only body that could take the matter into consideration, 
 have determined to do so. The complaint from Lewisham that has 
 been made by a gentleman of the name of Johnson, is in reference to 
 a stream which communicates with the Ravensbourne, called the 
 Quaggs River. Mr* Johnson and some of his neighbours have made 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 427 
 
 complaint to the Commissioners frequently upon the subject, and re- 
 cently a complaint has been made which is now to be taken into con- 
 sideration. 
 
 That is Mr. Cuthbert Johnson 1 Yes. 
 
 Is he a gentleman who has cultivated scientific agriculture, and has 
 paid great attention to agriculture generally 1 I was not aware of that. 
 
 No. 32. 
 COLONEL HALL, R. E. 
 
 The Commissioners being desirous of ascertaining what may be done 
 for the prevention of waste, and to place works of drainage on a safe 
 footing, and to afford means of facilitating the immediate extension of 
 efficient drainage, are desirous of ascertaining how soon a survey on a 
 general plan could be constructed on a sufficient outline to enable works 
 to he carried on with safety. With that view they have requested you 
 to examine the maps and surveys in the possession of the several Sew- 
 ers Commissioners, to determine how far any of them and what might 
 be used in aid of any general plan. Have you made this examination ? 
 I have examined such plans as were shown to me at each of the offices. 
 
 Will you describe the sort of materials shown to you at each of the 
 offices ^ Do this as fully as practicable. At the office of the Holborn 
 and Finsbury Division of Sewers I was shown a block plan on a scale 
 of 10 chains to the inch. This plan does not show the yards, gardens, 
 outbuildings, &c., in rear of the houses. It is a plan of the streets, but 
 not drawn to scale as regards the width of each street. I was also 
 shown district plans on a larger scale than the general plan, on which 
 the division of the houses are marked and numbered thus 
 
 STREET. 
 
 a 34 5 6 I 7 I 8 10 11.1813 -ll| .15 1C 17 18 19 20 1 21 1 
 
428 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 At each of the other offices, viz., in Greek-street Soho, Abingdon- 
 street, Westminster, Guildhall City, Lawrence Pountley-lane, Great 
 Alie street, Goodman's-fields, and Tooley-street, the same description 
 of plans were shown to me. In the office in Tooley-street, there is a 
 survey of Camberwell district on a scale of 3 chains to 1 inch, and one 
 of Rotherhithe district on a scale of 200 feet to an inch, and these plans 
 are more in detail than any of those shown to me at the other offices. 
 
 Will you state to the Commissioners the judgment you have formed 
 upon these several plans ? In my opinion they are plans not Teased 
 upon points trigonometrically fixed ; and that, in the event of a gene- 
 ral survey of the metropolis being determined upon, they would be of 
 no use. 
 
 It appears to be important for the sanitary improvement of the me- 
 tropolis that such a work as a general survey should be commenced 
 with the least possible delay, not only for the general object, but that 
 every class of buildings, operations, and the employment of workmen 
 should have every practicable facility. In the event of the general 
 survey being determined upon, would it not be practicable to complete 
 those portions of the suburbs where new works are carrying on prior to 
 the execution of the old and denser parts of the metropolis 1 The sur- 
 vey of any district, or portions of district, can be taken up without re- 
 ference to the execution of the survey of the older and denser parts of 
 the metropolis. 
 
 Within what time do you consider could anything be got ready in 
 the suburbs from the date of commencement, with any force employed 
 that you may consider most desirable 1 Presuming that the necessary 
 funds are forthcoming, impressions in outline of sheets of a skeleton 
 map, drawn and engraved on the scale of 60 inches to a mile, contain- 
 ing about 153 acres each, may be in the hands of the Commissioners, 
 for working purposes, though not thoroughly finished, in from six to 
 eight months after the order is given for their preparation. 
 
 The Commissioners presume that the expense of the survey of the 
 metropolis would be defrayed out of the annual vote when it came to 
 its turn. What will be the proportionate expense for the metropolis 
 out of that vote ? There is no order existing at the present time show- 
 ing it to be the intention of the Government to survey the south of 
 England again. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 429 
 
 Is there any portion of the work of the Ordnance survey now in pro- 
 gress which would be of immediate importance for the construction of 
 railways 1 Yes, the counties of Lancaster, York, Wigtoun, and Kirk- 
 cudbright. 
 
 Can you furnish the names of the towns in Great Britain that would 
 come under the Ordnance survey during the next twelve months 1 
 Sheffield is now being surveyed ; and plans of the following towns are 
 being prepared, on the scale of 60 inches to a mile, viz., Accrington, 
 Ashton-under-Lyne and Staley Bridge, Bingley, Bolton, Bradford, 
 Burnley, Colne, Fleetwood, Halifax, Heywood, Huddersfield, Leeds, 
 Manchester and Salford, Middleton, Newton, Oldham Ormskirk, Pres.- 
 cot, Rochdale, St. Helens, Skipton, Stockport, Todmorden, Ulverstone, 
 Warrington, and York ; and the engraving of the plans of the follow- 
 ing towns is in progress, viz., Blackburn, Bury, Chorley, Clitheroe, 
 Haslingden, Lancaster, Liverpool (partly), Preston, Selby, Wakefield, 
 and Wisran. 
 
 No. 33. 
 Captain W. YOLLAND,R. E. 
 
 How Lng did the survey of Southampton, which you have exhibited 
 to the Commissioners, occupy 1 It occupied 21 months, and it is 
 drawn on the scale of 60 inches to a mile. 
 
 How large was the staff employed upon it 1 It was principally done 
 in the process of instructing a number of military men for the general 
 survey of the country. The actual work which the Commissioners 
 have before them was performed almost entirely by four persons. 
 
 You do not mean the triangulation ? No ; the drawing only. 
 
 What number of people do you calculate it would take to survey 
 the town of Southampton in 21 months'? Ten or twelve persons. 
 
 Can you at all state what the expense would be 1 The cost of this 
 work was about 8s. per acre, taking it all together. 
 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What number of acres are there? Close upon 3000 acres. 
 
 What proportion of it was laid down in building? About one- 
 eighth part. 
 
 Supposing you proceed to survey a large number of acres laid out 
 in buildings only, would it be much more laborious? It entirely de- 
 pends upon the nature of the survey that is wanted. 
 
 Is such a survey as this absolutely necessary for the purposes of 
 drainage and sewerage? I do not ,apprehend there can be the slight- 
 est doubt upon the subject. 
 
 By that answer, do you mean that so accurate a survey as this, both 
 in mapping and surveying, is necessary? I think so. 
 
 Have you calculated what the expense of a survey of a town, per 
 acre, without any country district, would be? Estimates have been 
 given in to that effect. 
 
 The necessity of such a map would be more applicable in towns, 
 probably, than to the country? Very much more so. I imagine that 
 in all questions of improving drainage or sewerage, or any public works, 
 it is necessary to have the whole of the district under your view aC 
 once. The index map of Southampton now produced, which is drawn 
 on a scale of six inches to a mile, exhibits at one view the whole of 
 the district shown on the large scale maps ; and, when schemes of im- 
 provement are sketched out on this index, it will be easy to refer to the 
 particular sheets of the large maps through which the schemes pass, 
 for every portion of the details. 
 
 Would the survey of houses take very much more time ? Very 
 much more time. 
 
 You have heard and read descriptions of the requirements for sewers. 
 Would not it be possible to make skeleton plans to facilitate that work, 
 and get out the levels with greatly increased rapidity ? No question 
 of it. 
 
 Can you judge the proportionate rate of time ? One-fourth of the 
 time. 
 
 Which would give the altitudes ? Which would give the altitudes 
 of the streets and along the roads, but not the plan of the rears of the 
 houses, the gardens, enclosures, &c. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS,. 431 
 
 Would that be sufficient ^to enable an engineer to judge where a 
 drain should be carried up? It would. 
 
 Have you any means of judging of the difference of expense be- 
 tween the Ordnance Survey and surveys taken by private individuals? 
 I am not aware, at present, of the existence of any surveys executed 
 by any civil surveyors whatever, that can compete in quality of execu- 
 tion or accuracy with snch a survey as to now produced. Such surveys 
 may exist, but I have never seen any of them. 
 
 Can you say that, not only with reference to anything you have seen 
 in England, but anything you have seen abroad 1 The establishment 
 at Southampton has been visited by many foreign officers ; and I have 
 been informed by them that there is nothing in foreign countries either 
 in the mode of execution or in quality comparable with the system or 
 with the works which are carried on at Southampton. 
 
 Do the cadastre plans take in any towns upon a large scale ? Noth- 
 ing of the kind. 
 
 Do you know whether the scales in use in Germany for the registra- 
 tion of property can compare with this? The Bavarians have a very 
 large scale, but not so large as this. 
 
 Therefore, there being nothing like it in execution that you are 
 aware of, you cannot compare the relative expense ; but cannot you 
 compare the expense of wages or remmuneration to persons employed 
 on the Ordnance Survey, with the rates of remuneration to persons 
 conducting surveys either for corpprations or for private individuals or 
 public companies 1 I can compare the rates of the wages of labour 
 given to persons employed on the Ordnance Survey with the rates 
 which have tempted them to quit the Ordnance Survey for employ- 
 ment upon other works. I beg to hand in a return, in which all the 
 names are purposely omitted, showing the, rates of pay of 21 persons 
 employed on the Ordnance Survey, the nature of the duties they per- 
 formed, and the rates of remuneration ; with the duties and rates of 
 pay of these persons on railway surveys. Also the rates of pay at 
 which many of them rejoined the Ordnance Survey. 
 
 (The same was delivered in, and is as follows: ) 
 
432 
 
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 and their Qualifications, Ac. 
 
 A good^computer, intelligent and useful, b' 
 noi employed as a surveyor or draftsn: 
 the Survey. 
 
 Ditto 
 
 Ditto .-...; 
 
 A smart, useful lad at computations, but 
 ly unacquainted with the other duties 
 Survey, 
 
 A good computer, employed also constr 
 diagrams of triangulation and plotting 
 Very intelligent and generally useful. 
 
 A good writer and computer, but unaccus 
 to survey or draw plans. 
 Employed surveying, drawing and exai: 
 plans on the ground ; also making diagn 
 triangulation. 
 A good writer and careful computer, and 
 rienced at the various field and office du 
 
 the Survey. 
 A good draftsman. Employed also for 
 time in the field. Very intelligent and 
 ful. 
 
 A good computer. Very intelligent and i 
 and capable of drawing plans. 
 A neat writer, careful and attentive. Prii 
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 Ditto 
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METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS, 
 
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434 MINUTES OP EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 What per centage does that vary from yours above or below ? From 
 500 to 1000 per cent, above the rates in the Ordnance Survey. 
 
 Have you any instances of persons employed on the Ordnance Sur- 
 vey being taken by corporations into their employ 1 At the present 
 moment the corporation of Liverpool, who are engaged in carrying out 
 sanitary measures for the town of Liverpool, have abstracted a number 
 of assistants from the Ordnance Survey, that will answer the purpose 
 of carrying on this very necessary work at rates of pay varying from 
 500 to 700 per cerU. over that which they received on the Ordnance 
 Surveys ; and this, after having been furnished by the Ordnance Sur- 
 vey department, almost at a nominal price, with a skeleton plan of the 
 town of Liverpool ^ on this scale, with some altitudes inserted at the 
 corners of streets. 
 
 How do you account for the corporation of Liverpool desiring to 
 have an additional and accurate survey, they having already those out- 
 lines which are sufficient for ail purposes of drainage I imagine it is 
 to project their schemes. 
 
 The Commissioners are anxious to ascertain^ what it would cost to 
 survey the metropolis sufficiently for the purpose of drainings and sew- 
 erage. Therefore it was that the question was asked, why the Liver- 
 pool people should be anxious to have a more complete survey than is 
 necessary for those purposes 1 All I stated, as having been given the 
 Liverpool corporation, were skeleton plans not embracing every alley 
 and every court. 
 
 The Liverpool corporation own a great deal of property in Liverpool, 
 do they not? I do not know. 
 
 Except in the case of Liverpool, in what year or years was it that 
 those enormous rates of pay were given in order to abstract persons 
 from the Ordnance employment 1 In 1845. 
 
 At what rate have railway engineers and surveyors obtained copies 
 of your plans 1 Copies of plans drawn upon the 6-inch scale have 
 been supplied at the rate of 10s. per mile. 
 
 What have they charged to Companies'? We have memoranda in 
 our office stating that the charges made to Companies have varied from 
 j30 to .80 per mile. 
 
 In the detail of this Southampton plan, which you have prepared, 
 do you show the gully-holes? Everything upon the surface of the 
 ground is shown on the plan. 
 
 Do you show the different classes of inhabitants ? It has not been 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 435 
 
 done, but it would be perfectly possible to do it, as it is simply a ques- 
 tion of enumeration., 
 
 Supposing- it shduld be wanted to complete some of the suburban 
 districts, for instance, the Westminster district, so as to keep workmen 
 employed, within what period of time do you think it would be possi- 
 ble to get out a skeleton plan, to enable a portion of them to go on 
 with safety 1 I have no doubt portions may be given in from six to 
 eight months. Of course dependent upon the extent required will be 
 the number of persons employed, and the possibility of getting the 
 work done within a reasonable period of time. The sheets of the 
 large scale map are of uniform size, 3 feet by 2 feet, and contain 
 rather more than 153 acres. I should mention that London would oc- 
 cupy, if a radius of 8 miles be taken, about 900 sheets. 
 
 How many sheets have.you for the county of Lancashire, which is 
 already done 1 Lancashire contains 120 sheets, upon the 6-inch scale. 
 
 How many sheets are there for Manchester itself, on the large scale? 
 I do not recollect. Liverpool contains 50 sheets ; Yorkshire contains 
 about 300 sheets on the 6-inch scale. 
 
 The Ordnance Survey has been carried throughout the country upon 
 a vote from the Consolidated Fund ? Yes ; regular funds voted annu- 
 ally by Parliament. 
 
 The parts you are completing are those which have no survey at all ? 
 Quite so. 
 
 They have been completed upon an enlarged scale? A recent de- 
 cision has been taken upon that subject it has been determined to 
 complete the six northern counties of England and the whole of Scot- 
 land upon the 6-inch scale. 
 
 Upon what scale is Dublin? Six inches to a mile, and sixty inches 
 to a mile. 
 
 What is the additional expenditure which has been incurred for the 
 part of England which has already been done above what would have 
 been the rate if it had been completed upon the original scale of the 
 rest of England ? My impression is that it exceeds ,200,000. 
 
 No. 34. 
 
 LONDON CITY MISSION. 
 
 20, Red Lion Square, London, Nov. 22, 1847. 
 SIR : A correct map of London, on a larger scale than at present 
 
 28 
 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 exists, and somewhat more extended in its boundaries would undoubt- 
 edly be a great boon to us in our operations. As it is, on occupying 
 any district, we are obliged s as a preliminary, to employ an individual 
 to make a map of it, which occupies time and incurs expense. The 
 existing maps do not show the parts of the metropolis in which the 
 poor are chiefly congregated, and which it is an object to visit. And 
 for want of such a map we are able very imperfectly to show benevo- 
 lent individuals the parts of London which still require their sympathy 
 and efforts, I might state, in illustration of the importance of this 
 matter to us, that a map of the borough of Marylebone was some years 
 since, on its being made a borough, published on a large scale. It is, 
 of course, of less value now, on account of the extensive additions 
 which have since taken place in the buildings, especially in the par- 
 ishes of St. Pancras and Paddington. But with these imperfections 
 we have yet found it so valuable, that our Marylebone and Paddington 
 auxiliary have recently incurred the expense of 23 in reprinting 150 
 copies of the parishes of Marylebone and Paddington, with slight ad- 
 ditions to mark the improvements, and they represent to us that they 
 have found the expense much more than repaid to them by the ex- 
 hibition which such a map gave to their subscribers of the large por- 
 tion of these parishes in which a poor ^population was congregated a 
 portion much larger than most of them would have supposed, if not 
 thus represented. The sympathies of the more respectable inhabitants 
 Lave thus been called forth towards their poorer neighbours in a man- 
 ner which would not otherwise have been the case. And I have no 
 doubt this will still more be manifested in a short time, when the map is 
 more seen and known . 
 
 I ought, however, to state, though no doubt the Commissioners are 
 well aware of the circumstance, that the want of a good map of the 
 metropolis is a small desideratum as compared with the want of those 
 arrangements in the poor districts which would promote the clea'nli- 
 ness, health, and physical comforts of the inhabitants. In illustration 
 of such evils, I take the liberty to enclose our magazine for the pre- 
 sent month, and to direct attention to the article on the district of St. 
 Giles. While such evils exist, the efforts of societies like our own, to 
 promote the moral and religious benefit of the working classes, must be 
 greatly impeded and prevented. If more could be done for the im- 
 provement of the condition of the districts in which the poor reside, and 
 of their residences, we should undoubtedly anticipate more fruits from 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 437 
 
 our endeavors. But while the poor live as in St. Giles's, decency, mo- 
 rality, and religion are no less set at defiance than health, economy, and 
 comfort. 
 
 I may further state, that through the neglect of attention to the sani- 
 tary condition of the poor districts, our Society are very great losers, 
 by means of the constant loss of service which they sustain, in the 
 failure of the health of their missionaries. Although we admit none, 
 except between the ages of 23 and 45, and after careful examination 
 by medical men, and although as soon as they are at all ill, they are 
 allowed to lay by, have the best medical attention gratuitously afforded 
 to them by the Society, and receive the privilege of going into the 
 country to houses provided for the purpose, and although further, they 
 have a fortnight's holiday every year, even if well, and are allowed 
 not to reside in the very close parts, yet with all" these advantages, and 
 although they have many of them previously been born and bred in 
 poor districts, and accustomed to hard and trying labour, a considerable 
 number of them are continually laid aside, and very many who prom- 
 ised best have to give up altogether in a few years. Indeed, I may 
 say, very few of our missionaries, with all these advantages, can stand 
 many years' work on the really bad districts of London, although 36 
 hours visiting each week is all which is required of them. I consider 
 that we sustain as much loss of life and health in prosecuting mission- 
 ary work in London as those Societies do the object of which is to send 
 missionaries to foreign parts, many of which are notoriously unhealthy. 
 And I cannot but consider that this is a reproach to the metropolis of 
 our country. There are some districts, respecting which we almost 
 feel sometimes a question, whether we ought to expose the health and 
 life of men, by placing them on them ; and there are other districts on 
 which missionary after missionary has broken down, when located 
 there, while even in a large number of our districts, the energy, 
 strength, and vigour of our missionaries become impaired by their con- 
 stant exposure to impure air. I beg also enclose a magazine of our 
 Society for August, 1845, in which is a statement of the condition of 
 the lodging-houses of the metropolis. 
 
 I have to apologize for the length of these remarks, but I trust they 
 will not be considered as irrelevant to the objects of the Commission. 
 
 I am, sir s 
 
 Your obedient humble servant, 
 
 JOHN GARWOOD, Secretary. 
 
 Henry Austin, Esq. 
 
438 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 P.S. Should a further illustration or two be desired of the crowded 
 state of some parts of London 3 and of the evils which result from the 
 same, I enclose an extract, on 1st, a court in Marylebone; and 2d, 
 Charles street, Drury Jane. I am only afraid of burdening- you with 
 too much to peruse. 
 
 JOHN GARWOOD. 
 
 No. 35. 
 J. BILLING, Esq. 
 
 You were engaged in the preparation of plans for the sanitary im- 
 provement of Reading, were you not? Yes. 
 
 In Reading there were many old courts and alleys, were there not ? 
 Yes. 
 
 You have seen courts and alleys in London, have you not 1 Yes. 
 
 What was the comparative sanitary condition of the courts and 
 alleys in Reading occupied by the working-classes? In respect to the 
 drainage, paving, cleansing and ventilation, and the supply of water, 
 many of them were as bad as those in London. 
 
 Did you not, for the purpose of laying down a plan for the sanitary 
 improvement of that town, visit several towns where works for carry- 
 ing out sanitary improvements had been effected? Yes. I visited the 
 Holborn and Finsbury division of sewers, and Eton, and Southampton, 
 Birmingham, and Derby, for works of drainage; for water-works, the 
 places of constant supply, Nottingham, Ashton-under-Lyne, and Old- 
 ham. I did not^visit Preston, but I got every information in respect 
 to it. 
 
 In respect to drainage, the works of all the towns you mention were 
 on the intermittent supply of water, were they not ? and the principle 
 of cleansing the sewers at intervals by flushing? and with brick sewers 
 large enough for men to go up them to cleanse them ? Yes ; that was 
 the general principle of construction. 
 
 None of them had got tubular sewers for the collateral streets ? 
 None. 
 
 What did you propose for the courts and alleys ? Tubular earthen- 
 ware drains. 
 
 Of what size ? Ten inches in diameter. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 439 
 
 Of what construction and size the house drains'? All of them tubu- 
 lar drains, six inches in diameter at the entrance to the sewers ; but 
 with collateral branches of four inches in diameter. 
 
 On what data did you propose 6-inch house-drains? I adopted the 
 recent London practice of using 6-inch tubular house-drains. I had 
 used 6 inch tubular drains in houses, and found them work far better 
 than the 9-inch brick barrel drains, or the common brick drains. These 
 were always more or less choked up, whilst the smaller tubular drains 
 were always clear. 
 
 From subsequent observation, would you not say that a 4-inch tubu- 
 lar drain for such a class of houses would work still better than the 
 6-inch drains'? Yes, I should. 
 
 You proposed the entire removal of cesspools from these courts and 
 alleys, as well as from every house in the town, the introduction of a 
 constant supply of water, the substitution of a water-closet apparatus, 
 and the complete house and court drainage: Will you describe the 
 nature of the works you proposed to lay down for the courts and alleys, 
 and the average expense per house, supposing that each house paid only 
 for its own particular works? I proposed to form the drains for the 
 houses in all courts and alleys with 4-inch earthenware pipes.; in some 
 cases two or more houses would branch together, each 4-inch pipe to 
 have a trap at its junction with the main drain of 10 inches diameter. 
 The water-closets would have had the common earthenware syphon 
 pan, or with the syphon portion of the pan, as constructed at Ashton, 
 with solid blocks. Thus Fig. 1 : 
 
 Fig. 1. 
 
 Fig. 2. 
 
 Fig. 2, represents the end of the two blocks, fixed together, with 
 small iron screw bolts. The present cesspools to be entirely removed. 
 The water supply to the courts was proposed to be effectedby a 1 J-inch 
 
440 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 lead pipe, with branches to each house and water-closet of half an 
 inch in diameter. 
 
 The following is a table of the expenses which would have fallen 
 upon the houses in courts and alleys supposing- the main sewer to have 
 been constructed opposite to the entrance of the court : 
 
 
 
 
 Annual 
 
 
 
 
 
 Interest 
 
 
 
 
 
 Annual 
 
 Commuted 
 
 Weekly 
 
 First Outlay per Tenement 
 
 
 Instalment 
 for 
 Repayment" 
 
 at5pr. Cent, 
 charged as 
 Rent on 
 
 Charges to 
 the Tenant 
 as Increased 
 
 
 
 in 30 Years, 
 
 Tenant, and 
 
 Rent. 
 
 
 
 
 Annual Rent 
 
 
 
 
 
 of Water. 
 
 
 5805 feet Drains in Courts at 2s. 6d. 
 
 . s. d. 
 
 . s. d. 
 
 . s. d. 
 
 . s. d. 
 
 per foot ?25. 12s. 6d. 885 
 
 16 3 
 
 006 
 
 006 
 
 0| 
 
 Houses .... 
 
 
 
 
 
 30 feet 4 Pipe Drain at Id. = 17s. ' 
 6d Trap 2s 6d 
 
 100 
 
 008 
 
 7| 
 
 0| 
 
 Water-closet, Pan, Trap, 10s. ; ex- 
 
 
 
 
 
 penses of covering or emptying 
 Cesspools 10s . .... 
 
 100 
 
 008 
 
 007^ 
 
 0| 
 
 Annual rent of Water, which in- ' 
 
 
 
 
 
 eluded the contribution to the 
 
 
 
 050 
 
 o o 14 
 
 original expense, and mainte- 
 nance of the Water Works j 
 
 
 
 
 
 Total 
 
 2 16 3 
 
 1 10 
 
 069 
 
 002 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Had you satisfactory contracts for the execution of the drainage of 
 the courts at these prices ? Yes, I had obtained the contracts. 
 
 In -respect to soil-pan apparatus, what was the most simple which 
 you found had been introduced into successful use? The above mode 
 I consider the most simple and best adapted to the purpose required. 
 
 Was this apparatus in use by persons of the labouring classes 1 Yes, 
 it was. 
 
 What was the report of its use 7 ? Perfectly satisfactory. 
 
 Then, practically, the presumptions that persons of the laboring 
 class would wilfully stop them up, that children would, 'from mischief, 
 throw things down, and the like apprehensions, proved to be ground- 
 less 1 Yes, entirely so. 
 
 For what sum did you estimate the removal of cesspools ? To empty 
 the cesspools (the contents of which the agriculturists at Reading would 
 remove gratis,) to cover them securely with brickwork in cement ; to 
 fix the soil-pan, connect it with the drain, and a self-acting Lambert's 
 stop-cock for the supply of water, 1. 5s. 
 
 What did you observe in those houses where a constant supply of 
 water had been carried? An increase of cleanliness, certainly, and 
 more comfort. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 441 
 
 In respect to the supply of water, you may have seen it stated by 
 some engineers of London water-works, that the constant supply would 
 require larger and more expensive pipes ; what did you find practically 
 to be the fact? Decidedly the* reverse. 
 
 Will you give examples'? I found that in Nottingham, Ashton, and 
 Oldham, all the pipes are much smaller than the sizes used on the 
 intermittent system, and this is the case at Preston also, where 50,000 
 inhabitants, and many factories, are supplied by a 14-inch main. 
 There are also 80 cottages supplied by a 1-inch pipe ; with J-inch pipes 
 blanching to each house. It is common, in all the towns above-men- 
 tioned, to supply branches to several houses by a 1-inch pipe. 
 
 It appears, that the landlord's expense for carrying water into each 
 of those 80 cottages was .24, or 6s. per cottage ; were you satisfied, 
 that the work might have been done for that? Yes, I had estimated 
 the expense of a supply to similar houses in Reading, at the same 
 price. In many of the cottages, we should have run the inch pipe 
 along the foot of the wall at the backs, with short branches entering 
 into the houses. The piping used was J-inch lead pipe, which, in 
 quantities, was to be had at 3d. per foot. The Preston taps, which are 
 admirable things, cost 25. each. There was one tap and a sink-stone 
 to every house, besides a supply of water to the soil-pan, or water- 
 closets, with one of Lambert's self-acting stop-cocks. 
 
 Did you not find it advantageous, in respect to economy, to drain the 
 houses at the back instead of through the fronts ? Yes, for I found that 
 made a very great difference in the outlay. 
 
 It has been stated, by some engineers of the London water-works, 
 that not only would larger pipes, and more expensive apparatus be ne- 
 cessary, but proportionately larger supplies of water for the system of 
 the constant supply ; how did you find the practical experience in that 
 respect? I found that the quantity of water now used in those places 
 is, without exception, much less than when the intermittent system 
 was in operation. At Preston, the average supply per house, exclusive 
 of factories, is fifty gallons per day. 
 
 Did you find earthware pipes in use, and course of introduction any- 
 where for the distribution of water? Yes, at Ashton. 
 
 That is to say, under the constant system of supply at a pressure of 
 150 feet, was it not ? Yes. 
 
 Will you describe the material and the sizes of the pipes ? The 
 pipes were of a common coarse fire-clay; 3 inches in diameter, and 
 
 U&IVEBSITT 
 
442 
 
 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 three quarters of an inch thick; with sockets jointed with Roman 
 cement. From these there were f-inch pipes for the house supply. 
 
 The mode of jointing- the iron pipes in London is with tow and tar, 
 and lead run in, and then hammered down ; now, inasmuch as it has 
 been presumed, that the earthen pipes would not bear the hammering 
 down of the lead, it has been stated, that earthen pipes could never be 
 jointed, to be used as substitutes for iron pipes ; what was your obser- 
 vation on the joining! Roman cement is exclusively used at Preston 
 for joining pipes of every size and description, and it stands perfectly 
 well under the constant pressure before stated. About 10 miles of 
 pipes, varying from 3 inches to 14 inches in diameter, have been laid 
 13 years, and not one joint has failed. The pipes are bored and turned 
 to fit ; the cement is wetted with warm water, and is laid thinly round, 
 or painted on the espigot end of the pipe, and into the fawcet end, the 
 pipes are then driven gently in, and the joint is made. The engineer 
 of those works says, u It makes a perfect joint, and the pipes never 
 move," and u he has not heard any objection made to this method.' 5 
 The joints formed of tow and lead are not only less secure, but also 
 immensely more expensive than those formed as at Preston. For ex- 
 ample the cost of laying 60 yards of 4-inch pipe at Preston, includ- 
 ing labour and materials to joints, boring and turning the pipes, open- 
 ing and filling in ground, and taking up and relaying the paving is 
 2 9s. 3d. ; to execute the same work in the London manner would 
 amount to 6/., being an excess in the expenditure of nearly 250 per cent. 
 
 Are you satisfied, that earthenware pipes would resist the weight of 
 the column of water proposed to be used for sanitary purposes? To 
 lest the strength of earthenware pipes, I have made some experiments 
 upon the stone- ware and the common red ware pipes, which are used 
 for house-drains. The following table shows the pressure per square 
 inch, at which the several pipes burst : 
 
 "f\Tn of 
 
 Stone 
 
 Ware. 
 
 Common ., 
 
 tied Ware. 
 
 Lbs. presr. 
 
 Equal to a 
 column oi 
 
 JJSO. Ol 
 
 Experiment. 
 
 Inside 
 Diameter. 
 
 Thickness of 
 Material. 
 
 Inside 
 Diameter. 
 
 Thickness of 
 Material. 
 
 pr. sqr. inch, 
 at bursting. 
 
 water in feet 
 altitude. 
 
 
 In. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 'l 
 
 15 
 
 ; ofi 
 
 , t 
 
 f 
 
 46 
 
 92 
 
 2 
 
 9 
 
 J of 1 
 
 
 
 . . 
 
 107 
 
 214 
 
 3 
 
 6^ 
 
 jofl 
 
 
 . . 
 
 160 
 
 320 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 6f 
 
 ,'. of 1 
 
 35 
 
 70 
 
 5 
 
 
 
 4f 
 
 , 8 a Of 1 
 
 77 
 
 154 
 
 6 
 
 
 
 
 8f 
 
 , 6 6 f 1 
 
 97 
 
 194 
 
 7 
 
 2^ 
 
 ,'. of 1 
 
 
 
 
 80 
 
 160 
 
 8 
 
 2 
 
 , e of ! 
 
 
 " 
 
 not burst at 
 
 320 
 
 
 
 1 6 
 
 
 
 160 
 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 443 
 
 From these results upon pipes irregularly made, of very unequal thick- 
 ness, too thin for the purpose, and with the material insufficiently pre- 
 pared, it is evident, that by proportioning the thickness to the diameter, 
 earthenware pipes may be formed to resist the weight of a column of 
 water of any required altitude. The strength would be greatly in- 
 creased if they were made by a machine, and of a more regular thick- 
 ness than those which were tested by these experiments. Each experi- 
 ment consisted of two pipes jointed with common Roman cement of 
 good quality. None of the joints failed. 
 
 Architects -and engineers, and others who have been informed of the 
 strength of earthenware pipes against internal pressure, have, never- 
 theless expressed doubts of the capacity of such economical materials 
 to resist external pressure. Have you met with any facts to justify such 
 a conclusion ? Sufficient evidence of their strength to bear external 
 pressure has been afforded already by their use as drains. 
 
 You are aware that earthen pipes have crossed highways of traffic; 
 have you heard of any breakage amongst them ? I have seen large 
 quantities of 4-inch, 6-inch, and 9-inch pipes laid down in highways 
 used for various traffic, and I have never heard of any breakage. I 
 imagine that, at a sufficient depth to be protected from the action of 
 frost, they would also be secure from all other kinds of injury. 
 
 From your own observation of these facts, should you hesitate to use 
 a distributary apparatus of earthenware pipes entirely for the water 
 supply for such a town or such a district as Reading? I should have 
 no hesitation in doing so. 
 
 The chief advantages that arise from the use of earthenware pipes 
 for distribution are stated to be freedom from oxidation, by the water, 
 which has sometimes a pernicious action upon metals; greater coolness 
 and freshness ; the fire-brick or earthenware being a less rapid ^con- 
 ductor of heat, less liability to freeze, and reduced expense ? Those 
 advantages, I conceive, would be obtained ; the reduction of expense, 
 by our present modes of manufacture, would exceed one-half of the 
 cost of iron pipes, but with improved methods of manufacture, and a 
 supply suited to the nature of the demand, a saving of two-thirds of 
 the present outlay for iron pipes might be effected, and thus the ex- 
 pense of laying down the various distributing pipes for the water sup- 
 ply of towns may be safely calculated, as capable of reduction in this 
 particular, to the extent of 65 or 70 per cent, 
 
 29 
 
444 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 
 
 No. 36. 
 
 50, KENNINGTON STREET, WALWORTH, ) 
 November 19, 1847. J 
 
 MY LORD : Your Lordship's official position, and connexion with 
 the " Health of Towns Bill," is my only apology for addressing you. 
 
 The difficulty of immediately enforcing a measure for compulsory 
 drainage is necessarily great, from causes which I need not enter 
 upon ; so, as a preliminary step towards the subsequent or fuller inten- 
 tions of Government, I respectfully submit, that a contrivance peculiar 
 to Paris, and which I saw there in extensive operation, might be 
 advantageously adopted in indifferently drained localities, from its 
 efficiency, its immediate and ready application, and its cheapness. 
 
 A large barrel is mounted on a cart, to the tap of which a long hose 
 is attached, the further end being provided with an iron grating ; this 
 end of the hose is cast into a cesspool, and, with a common air-pump, 
 the barrel is quickly exhausted, the foul water rises in the vacuum ; 
 the tap is then turned, the hose detached, and the cart removed, to 
 return again, if necessary. 
 
 There are other and rather offensive details, which I mastered, on 
 the subject, but with which I forbear to inflict your Lordship, satisfied 
 that if the idea be worthy of your consideration, inquiry will be made ; 
 and I need scarcely add, that any information in my power to com- 
 municate will most readily be given. 
 
 Parishes have their fire-escapes, engines^ saving-draffs, &c., why not, 
 also, such conveniencies as that referred to above ? and which, if land- 
 lords refused or delayed to empty cesspools, might be at the command 
 of tenants at the landlords' expense ; the parish would always " re- 
 cover." 
 
 I have the honor to be, my Lord, 
 
 Your Lordship's very humble servant, 
 
 JOHN SKIRVING. 
 To LORD MORPETH. 
 
METROPOLITAN SANITARY COMMISSIONERS. 445 
 
 50, KENNINGTON STREET, WALWORTH, > 
 December 8, 1847. $ 
 
 SIR : In reply to your note to me, of the 6th, I hasten to supply 
 the Commissioners with some details connected with the emptying of 
 cesspools in Paris ; there are two modes, but both by the same appara- 
 tus, as described in my letter to Lord Morpeth of the 19th ultimo; the 
 first is to remove foul water merely, the second to remove the fulzie^ 
 For second or supplementary cesspools, the first method is generally suf- 
 ficient, as it is no unusual thing for the Parisians to remove the foul 
 water only, from time to time, allowing the sediment to accumulate 
 till the cesspool be a half or two-thirds full ; but, for FIRST or SINGLE cess- 
 pools, this is sometimes insufficient, particularly if the nature of the 
 ground below admit of the easy escape or filtration of the water, then 
 the sediment becomes so compact that it must be dug out ; however, 
 the attempt is generally made to avoid this operation, as it is offensive, 
 expensive, and involves the removal of the covering of the cesspool : 
 as much as possible is removed by pumping, the remaining portion is 
 then saturated with water, and, if possible, pumped out. 
 
 I observed that there were various sized barrels in Pati:-., as the size 
 of their cesspools vary ; also that the hose employed by them is of a 
 greater calibre than our fire-engine hose : but, should the Commis- 
 sioners wish ocular demonstration of the sufficiency of the Parisian 
 method, I am ready at a few hours' notice to go to Paris and purchase 
 an apparatus for them, and to procure such other information on the 
 subject as may be had : this were the more certain and' economical 
 way of their testing the process ; besides, if approved, the apparatus 
 were a model for us to improve upon or adopt. 
 
 I do not know whether the water from cesspools in Paris be cast into 
 the Seine, but I do know that the waste water from Edinburgh has 
 rendered hundreds of acres of worthless land so valuable that it now 
 lets as meadow ground at prices varying from ,30 to <38 per acre ! 
 
 I made no drawings of the apparatus in Paris, but have seen supple- 
 mentary hose attached to draw foul water off from any distance ; this 
 is a great convenience. The emptying of cesspools in Paris is not 
 necessarily a midnight operation, being so cleanly, or rather so inof- 
 fensive a process there. 
 
 I am, Sir, your very obedient servant, 
 
 JOHN SKIRVING. 
 HENRY AUSTIN, ESQ., 
 
 Secretary to the Metropolitan Commission. 
 
14 DAY USE 
 
 RETURN TO DESK FROM WHICH BORROWED 
 
 LOAN DEPT. 
 
 This book is due on the last date stamped below, or 
 
 on the date to which renewed. 
 Renewed books are subject to immediate recall. 
 
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 ADD 1 1Q7H 3 8 
 
 
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 (D3279slO)476B 
 
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