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Leaves from my Diary 
 
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LEAVES 
 FROM MY DIARY 
 
 1894 — 1896 
 
 BY THE 
 
 Right Rev. Abbot GASQUET, O.S.B. 
 
 B. HERDER 
 
 17 SOUTH BROADWAY 
 
 ST. LOUIS 
 
 MO. 
 

 H£KRY MORSE STEPHEH* 
 
TO THE READER. 
 
 The following extracts from my diaries for the 
 period 1894 to 1896 are printed at the request 
 of several friends, in consequence of the publi- 
 cation of A Roman Diary and other Docu- 
 ments relating to the Papal Inquiry into English 
 Ordinations, by the Rev. T. A. Lacey. The 
 entries in my diaries were obviously written 
 without the least idea of their ever being made 
 public, and since 1896 they have been locked 
 away and not even read since they were 
 written, until, in view of Mr. Lacey 's Diary, I 
 brought them out and examined them. 
 
 A quotation from a letter written to a French 
 Professor in Paris on February 2nd, 1896, will 
 show my personal attitude to the question of 
 Anglican Orders : " My connection with the 
 question of Anglican Ordinations was certainly 
 not of my own seeking. In fact, on this burn- 
 ing controversy I have kept silence, and indeed 
 have expressly passed it over when dealing 
 with the Anglican Liturgy in conjunction with 
 my friend, Mr. Edmund Bishop, in the volume 
 Edward VI and the Book of Common Prayer, 
 I did so because I thought the matter one 
 
 2 
 
 ""9826 
 
11 
 
 To the Reader 
 
 altogether too delicate to be stirred up without 
 grave reason, and that very probably more 
 harm than good would result from mooting the 
 question without grave necessity. It has, how- 
 ever, now been mooted, not, I am glad to say, 
 by anything we Catholics have done ; and if I 
 am engaged in it, you may be sure that it is 
 only by command of the Supreme authority." 
 
 The examination initiated by the friends of 
 the Anglicans in Rome might have resulted in 
 one of four conclusions. It might have shown 
 that, according to Catholic principles, the 
 Orders of the Church of England must be 
 accepted as valid by the Church ; or it might 
 have resulted in considering them as doubtful 
 only, which would have entailed, of course, a 
 change in the traditional mode of regarding 
 them ; or, the examination might have con- 
 firmed the practice of looking on them as not 
 having the requisite qualities for validity in the 
 sense of the Catholic Church ; or, fourthly, 
 it might have been thought best to abstain 
 from giving any decision at all. 
 
 From the first, in my opinion, there could be 
 no other possible result from a thorough exami- 
 nation than to confirm the constant practice of 
 the Church. Still, I was open to conviction, 
 and if any gravissima ratio could have been 
 
To the Reader iii 
 
 shown in the course of discussion to change 
 that practice of the Church during three cen- 
 turies, all were prepared to accept that solution. 
 
 When, as the outcome of the Roman investi- 
 gation, Pope Leo XIII, on September 13th, 
 1896, declared that the Church must continue 
 to hold the Anglican Orders to be invalid, 
 many protests were uttered by English Church- 
 men against his decision. The cry went forth 
 that the Pope had outraged every good feeling 
 by denying to others what he claimed for him- 
 self — Apostolic succession of Orders. From 
 time to time since, this complaint of wounded 
 sensibilities has been uttered by many. In one 
 of the debates in the English House of Lords 
 upon the Royal Declaration, which was ad- 
 mittedly offensive to Catholics, the Bishop of 
 Bristol, Dr. Browne, defended the retention of 
 the blasphemies of the King's Oath on the 
 ground that the Pope had declared the Orders 
 of the English Church null and void. 
 
 With every allowance for the feelings of 
 those among the clergy of the Established 
 Church who, holding advanced doctrines on 
 the Eucharist, regard themselves as being 
 " sacrificing-priests " quite as really as ourselves, 
 it is somewhat hard to see what ground of 
 complaint any one of them has with the Papal 
 
iv To the Reader 
 
 decision. They remain what they were before, 
 and the whole question was essentially, so far 
 as the Roman authorities were concerned, a 
 domestic one. The real question before the 
 Commission and to be determined by the Pope 
 was this and no other: Was the Catholic Church 
 to regard the English bishops and priests of 
 the Established Church as bishops and priests 
 in the same way and in the same sense as those 
 who have been ordained according to the rites 
 and ceremonies prescribed in the Catholic 
 Pontifical ? Surely the living authority of the 
 Roman Church had a right — and when the 
 question had been formally raised, a duty — to 
 determine the answer, without being considered 
 either offensive or aggressive. Certainly no 
 such motive was thought of in the discussions 
 of the Commission, and I fancy that the notes 
 from my Diaries here printed will show the 
 single-minded purpose with which we ap- 
 proached the consideration of a question which 
 had been forced upon us by outsiders. 
 
Leaves from my Diary. 
 1894. 
 
 December $th. — To-day two matters of 
 curious significance were brought to my 
 notice. In a letter received from a friend — 
 a layman — in Rome, the writer speaks of 
 reports current in the Eternal City of an 
 approach which had been made to the Pope 
 by certain Anglicans through some French 
 friends with a view of interesting him in a 
 scheme for the reunion of England with 
 Rome. The rumours were vague, but it 
 was said that the Pope was greatly moved 
 by what he was told as to the prospects of 
 reunion, and had made certain promises of 
 action, the nature of which was unknown 
 generally, and was evidently kept, or intended 
 to be kept, a profound secret. 
 
 The second matter somewhat explained 
 the first. Some letters and papers were 
 placed in my hands in the evening of this 
 day (5th Dec, 1894), from which I learned 
 
2 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 the following : the Abbe Portal, a French 
 Lazarist, who, under the name of Dalbus, 
 had written a pamphlet on " English Ordina- 
 tions," had been three weeks in England in 
 consultation with certain prominent Angli- 
 cans. It was said that he had come to the 
 conclusion that to bring about a union, or 
 discussion leading to a union, of the Anglican 
 with the Roman Church, "les ordres offerai- 
 ent un excellent terrain." From England 
 the Abbe went to Rome and, interesting 
 Cardinal Rampolla in his scheme, was re- 
 ceived by the Pope on the 12th of Sep- 
 tember (1894). After having told the Holy 
 Father what he had seen of the Anglicans 
 in England and what he believed to be the 
 actual religious state of the English Church, 
 and the disposition of its members in regard 
 to reunion, the Pope asked him if he himself 
 could do anything to promote the union of 
 the Churches. To this Portal replied by 
 suggesting that the Pope should write a letter 
 on the subject to the Archbishops of Canter- 
 bury and York. This at the time was agreed 
 to ; but two days later the Abbe was informed 
 that it was, on reflection, considered better 
 to wait for a time before such a letter was 
 written. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 3 
 
 Portal says that at the time of his inter- 
 view he saw his pamphlet, Les Ordinations 
 Anglicanes, on the Pope's table, and he 
 desired his Anglican friends to believe that 
 there had never been " une telle demarche 
 de la part de Rome." The Abbe Duchesne, 
 too, had been chosen, he says, to write his 
 views upon the question of the validity of 
 the English Orders, and this manifests on 
 the part of the Roman authorities "un si 
 grand desir d'envisager les choses sous le 
 point de vue le plus favorable pour cette 
 eglise." 
 
 December jth (1894). — I had an inter- 
 view with Cardinal Vaughan this morning, 
 in the course of which I told him what I had 
 heard from Rome, and also what I under- 
 stood from the papers shown me in England 
 was going on in regard to reunion, and of 
 the desire of our Anglican friends to reopen 
 the question of their Orders. The Cardinal 
 had heard nothing whatever on either point, 
 and expressed his disbelief in what I had 
 told him, as he was sure he must have had 
 some indication of so important a matter as 
 the question of Anglican Orders being raised 
 in Rome. He deprecated starting such a 
 question at this time, but added that, were it 
 
4 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 raised, he would do his best to insist upon its 
 being sifted to the bottom and a formal 
 decision given either one way or another. 
 
 December 6th. — I wrote to my friend in 
 Rome to say that I had evidence that what 
 he had told me about the secret " intrigues " 
 of certain friends of the Anglicans with the 
 Curia had some foundation, but that having 
 spoken to Cardinal Vaughan, I found that he 
 had heard nothing whatsoever about the 
 matter, and did not believe there could be 
 any real truth in it. 
 
 December iSt/i. — To-day I received a 
 letter from Rome conveying to me the Pope's 
 commands to proceed to Rome as early as 
 possible in the New Year on matters of 
 importance. 
 
 December igt/i. — I saw the Cardinal to- 
 day and told him that I was told to go to 
 Rome. He said he was glad, but that it 
 was not his doing in any way. He added 
 that he had made inquiries about what I had 
 told him as to what was supposed to be going 
 on in Rome, and that he believed there had 
 been an endeavour on the part of certain 
 Frenchmen to urge the re-opening of the 
 question of Orders by the Roman authorities 
 on behalf of Anglicans. His information, 
 
Leaves from my Diary 5 
 
 however, was vague ; but he intended start- 
 ing for Rome himself immediately after 
 Christmas, and would there be in a position 
 to find out what was going on. 
 
1895. 
 
 Thursday \ 31J/ January, 1895. — I arrived 
 in Rome this morning (31st January), at 
 about 8 o'clock. As soon as possible I 
 proceeded to the English College to report 
 my arrival to the Cardinal as I had promised 
 to do. After some difficulty with the 
 domestics who declared that His Eminence 
 would receive "ni vescovo ni cardinale," I 
 saw Mgr. Dunn, who took me straightway 
 to the Cardinal's room, where he received 
 me with expressions of great pleasure that I 
 had at last arrived. He said the situation in 
 Rome in regard to the question of the re-union 
 of the Anglican Church with Rome, was 
 certainly interesting, and what had been 
 believed in the Eternal City as to the desire 
 of Anglicans generally to make their sub- 
 mission to the Church almost incompre- 
 hensible. He then proceeded to give me 
 a long account of an interview he had had 
 with the Pope on arriving, of which the 
 following are the principal points : 
 
 On his reaching Rome, the Saturday week 
 
Leaves from my Diary 7 
 
 before (January 19th, 1895), ne was sent f° r 
 immediately by the Pope. Directly he 
 entered the Pope's room, the Holy Father 
 began at once about his great desire to effect 
 the " re-union of England" with the Holy 
 See. He had been anxiously awaiting his 
 (that is the Cardinal's) arrival to carry out 
 the purpose he had conceived of addressing 
 a personal letter of invitation to the Anglican 
 Archbishops. He told me, said the Cardinal, 
 that " you Catholics of England are quite 
 mistaken in the real attitude of those who 
 are outside the Church in England towards 
 re-union. They are really just on the 
 point of coming in, but are being continually 
 repelled by the hostility of Catholics, and I 
 am told, especially," he said, " that the 
 harshness of Londoners keeps them back, 
 whereas it only requires some paternal, kind 
 ' Come, come now, etc., etc., take courage, 
 etc., etc.,' to bring them back en masse to 
 the fold of the true Church." 
 
 With regard especially to the question of 
 Anglican Orders, the Pope went on to say : 
 if indeed they really seemed to be doubtful, 
 for his part, he was disposed to grant that 
 they (the Anglicans who submitted to the 
 authority of the Church), should be allowed 
 
8 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 to receive Ordination sub conditioner as in 
 the case of a doubtful baptism. 
 
 The Cardinal assured me that the Pope 
 spoke for some twenty minutes in this strain. 
 He ended by saying that from what he had 
 been told, it was his belief that some 
 little concession would bring the majority 
 of Englishmen into communion with the 
 Roman Church. In all this the Cardinal 
 said the Holy Father did not seem to have 
 any idea of the difference between Ritualists 
 and others, or indeed any real knowledge of 
 the actual state of religious feeling in Eng- 
 land. At the end of a very long speech 
 the Holy Father said: — " And now I want 
 you to help me in this." Cardinal Vaughan, 
 who all this time had said nothing, immediately 
 replied : " If what your Holiness believes as 
 to the likelihood of the English people 
 coming over en masse, or even in great 
 numbers, had any foundation in fact, it would 
 be only right and proper to see whether by 
 any lawful concession, this very desirable 
 end could be helped forward. But your 
 Holiness has evidently been entirely mis- 
 informed as to the real attitude of the 
 English people to the Roman Church. The 
 vast majority of Englishmen are without 
 
Leaves from my Diary 9 
 
 question thoroughly Protestant in every 
 sense. A small and energetic minority, it is 
 true, against the protests of the majority, now 
 call themselves Catholics and have adopted 
 many of the practices and language of 
 the Catholic Church. But even these are 
 unanimous in rejecting what we hold to be 
 the foundation of the Catholic religion, the 
 authority of the Church and of the Supreme 
 Pontiff." 
 
 Then the Pope held up his hands in 
 surprise and exclaimed " Ma questa e una 
 questione di dottrina ! " The Cardinal then 
 said that he had himself recently put this 
 question to two representatives of the highest 
 school of Anglican thought, and that they 
 both had declared to him that they did not 
 believe that there was any great movement 
 towards the Church, as we understand it, 
 in contemplation. "With regard to your 
 Holiness 's intention of sending a letter to 
 the Archbishops of Canterbury and York," 
 the Cardinal continued, "this project has 
 been known for some time in England and 
 much discussed. I know for a fact that 
 drafts of such a letter have been suggested 
 and sent round to various people to know 
 whether a letter of such and such a kind 
 
io Leaves from my Diary 
 
 would meet with their approval if written. 
 And, moreover, the Archbishop of Canterbury 
 has been approached and asked to receive 
 your Holiness's communication at least with 
 civility." On hearing this the Pope appeared 
 to be greatly astonished and said that this 
 was entirely new to him and that he had 
 given no authority to anyone to do this. 
 
 The Cardinal then went on to say that 
 this was not all. Six months ago a French 
 priest had come to England and had stayed 
 for some considerable time in Anglican circles. 
 He had visited the Cowley Fathers, Angli- 
 can convents, and, he believed, Anglican 
 Bishops, allowing it to be understood that he 
 came with the knowledge and in an unofficial 
 way on behalf of Rome . The Pope there- 
 upon declared that he had never given any- 
 one such authority or even thought of such 
 a thing. The Cardinal, however, declared 
 that this was the view which was taken of 
 his mission in England by Anglicans, and 
 colour was to a certain extent given to it by 
 the fact that the said French priest studiously 
 avoided paying even the visit of courtesy 
 due to English ecclesiastical authority, and 
 indeed kept out of the way of Catholics 
 altogether. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 1 1 
 
 Further, that he (Cardinal Vaughan) had 
 it on the authority of a Catholic priest, who 
 had himself seen it in Abbe Portals own 
 writing, that he had been received at the 
 Vatican by the Holy Father, who had ex- 
 pressed to him his personal desire to consent 
 to anything to bring back England to the 
 Church, and that the Abbe Portal had 
 recommended the Pope to take the extra- 
 ordinary course of writing to the Archbishops 
 of Canterbury and York. The Pope appeared 
 much disturbed about the whole matter 
 having been known and discussed in Eng- 
 land. 
 
 Cardinal Vaughan then spoke of what the 
 Pope had said in regard to Anglican Orders. 
 He said that he did not quite understand the 
 ground of the Pope's desire to change the 
 existing practice of regarding them as abso- 
 lutely invalid. He could quite realise that, 
 if any new light of importance had been 
 thrown on the question, it might be neces- 
 sary that it should be thoroughly examined 
 and settled once for all according to the 
 evidence. But if nothing new were known 
 to have come to light, in his opinion it would 
 be much better to leave matters as they were. 
 He strongly urged upon the Pope the need 
 
12 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 of great caution when the only apparent 
 ground for desiring to change the practice 
 which the Church had maintained for cen- 
 turies, was to give pleasure to a section of 
 the English Church, which had no intention 
 whatever of submitting to the Church's 
 authority, but desired to be considered in all 
 other things Catholic. It was no doubt 
 painful to those who claimed to be priests, 
 in the Catholic sense, to know that the 
 Church had persistently refused to recognise 
 their claim, just as did a great number of 
 those who were equally members of the same 
 Anglican Church. The effect of any change 
 in the way of dealing with Anglican Ordina- 
 tions, except as the result of evidence and 
 examination, would be to afford ground for 
 a declaration that Rome had been wrong in 
 the matter for three hundred years, and that 
 the next step taken by the authorities would 
 be to declare in favour of the validity of 
 English Orders. Moreover, apart from any 
 question of expediency, he, the Cardinal, 
 could not see what was to be gained by 
 raising the question. 
 
 To this the Pope replied that the whole 
 matter was in the hands of the " Congrega- 
 tion of the Holy Office," and that nothing 
 
Leaves from my Diary 1 3 
 
 was likely to be done without full considera- 
 tion. He then, at the end of the interview, 
 told the Cardinal that he had sent for " Padre 
 Gasquet," which his Eminence knew, and 
 desired that he might be informed when I 
 arrived in Rome. This was practically all 
 the interview ; but the Cardinal told me that 
 the day after his visit to the Vatican the 
 Pope said to an Italian Bishop that he had 
 been misled into thinking that any large 
 section of the Anglican Church were likely 
 to make their submission en masse, and that 
 Cardinal Vaughan had assured him that there 
 was no truth in the statements as to this 
 which had been made to him. 
 
 Friday \ February 1st. — Saw Cardinal 
 Vaughan for a few minutes at the English 
 College this morning. He had had a talk with 
 Cardinal Mazzella the evening before, and 
 found that, three months previously, Cardinal 
 Mazzella had been spoken to by the Holy 
 Father as to the question of Anglican Orders. 
 He, the Cardinal, had urged the Pope to 
 take no step without consultation ; and that 
 if any change in the practice dealing with 
 the Orders was to be made, this should be as 
 the result of a serious examination into the 
 question. He urged that someone should 
 
 3 
 
14 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 be sent for from England who could give 
 advice in this matter, and he was glad to 
 hear later that this suggestion had been 
 acted upon. 
 
 In the afternoon I went, at Cardinal 
 Vaughan's suggestion, to call upon Fr. 
 Brandi of the Civilta. In the course of 
 conversation, Fr. Brandi told me that he had 
 written two or three articles on the Anglican 
 Ordination question, and that they were 
 already set up in type, when he was ordered 
 to hold them over so as not to complicate 
 matters by seeming to anticipate what 
 authority might do. The articles had been 
 written in view of the pamphlet of M. Dalbus 
 (Abbe Portal) on Les Ordinations Anglicanes 
 and the review of it by M. Duchesne in the 
 Rdvue Critique. Father Brandi also said 
 that copies of Portal's pamphlet had been 
 distributed very widely in ecclesiastical circles 
 in Rome : so widely, indeed, that many were 
 induced to think this had been done on the 
 part of the Anglicans. 
 
 Wednesday \ February 6th. — To-day I was 
 charged by the Vatican authorities to draw 
 up a mdmoire as to the religious state of 
 England at the present time, so far as the 
 prospect of the union of Anglicans with 
 
Leaves from my Diary 15 
 
 Rome was concerned, and to give my opinion 
 about the validity of Anglican Orders, in 
 view of the possible need of appointing a 
 Commission to go into the question. 
 
 Friday^ February %th — To-day from two 
 different sources I have heard rumours of the 
 treatment of Anglicans as Catholics by French 
 priests in Rome. This was in the matter of 
 the Sacraments, Confession and Holy Com- 
 munion. An Archbishop told me that he 
 had expostulated with a French priest, who 
 had boasted that he had given absolution 
 and Holy Communion to an Anglican lady. 
 This priest defended himself on the grounds 
 that the Anglicans were only accidentally out 
 of communion with Rome. Whether these 
 stories are true or not — probably, I think, 
 not — they show the curious, if not dangerous, 
 situation that exists, and a total ignorance of 
 the real state of things in England among 
 some people here. 
 
 In the evening I saw Cardinal Mazzella 
 and had about an hour's talk with him. I 
 asked him if he could tell me what the present 
 intention of the Pope was as to instituting an 
 examination in regard to the question of 
 Anglican Orders. He replied that at one 
 time His Holiness had quite made up his 
 
1 6 Leaves from my Diary- 
 mind to appoint a Commission of Cardinals 
 to consider whether any change in the tradi- 
 tional attitude of the Church to these Orders 
 was desirable ; that he had asked him (Car- 
 dinal Mazzella) and, to his knowledge, other 
 Cardinals to form part of the Commission. 
 Cardinal Mazzella urged caution before the 
 subject was opened at all, and said that in 
 his opinion the question should not be raised, 
 but if it were raised, it must undoubtedly be 
 settled on its merits. " My own impression," 
 added the Cardinal, " is that the Pope would 
 now drop the idea of a Commission unless it 
 is forced on him by others who were interested 
 in the matter." 
 
 'Tuesday \ February 12th This afternoon 
 
 I went to the English College and was 
 fortunate to find Cardinal Vaughan. Last 
 evening I had heard on the best possible 
 authority that a certain Monsignore living in 
 Rome had sent Dalbus' pamphlet to the 
 Holy Office, on the ground that it was 
 doing a lot of harm in Rome by its wide 
 circulation. This appears to me to be a 
 most unfortunate and deplorable step, and I 
 gave my reasons for thinking so to the 
 Cardinal. He quite agreed ; indeed, it is 
 obvious how very harmful such a thing as 
 
Leaves from my Diary 17 
 
 the condemnation at this time of the pamphlet 
 Les Ordinations Anglicanes would be before 
 the English public, which would probably 
 credit the Cardinal himself with trying to 
 avoid discussion. He said he would at once 
 move "heaven and earth" to prevent any 
 notice being taken of the denunciation. 
 
 I told the Cardinal also that I had been 
 directed to prepare a mhnoire for the Pope ; 
 but that I felt disinclined to write anything 
 on the Orders question until I had access to 
 all documents on the subject in the archives 
 of the Holy Office. He has promised to try 
 and get me a special Brief from the Pope, 
 allowing me free access to the archives of 
 the Holy Office, which has successfully 
 resisted all efforts to penetrate into its secrets. 
 
 Friday \ February 15th — After the " Ave 
 Maria" I went to call on Cardinal Rampolla, 
 having been requested to do so yesterday by 
 a message brought by Fr. Benedict Mackey. 
 The Cardinal was very pleasant, but did not 
 talk much about the matters that were of 
 special interest to me. One thing he did say 
 which may have importance, namely : that 
 the Pope was about to write a letter to the 
 English bishops on the question of Unity. 
 This information I was to keep to myself, 
 
1 8 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 except that I might communicate it to 
 Cardinal Vaughan. 
 
 Sunday, February ijth Having failed 
 
 yesterday and again this morning to find 
 Cardinal Vaughan at the English College, I 
 wrote to tell him about the proposed papal 
 letter. 
 
 Monday, February i8t/i My note of 
 
 yesterday brought the Cardinal round early 
 in the afternoon. He said my letter was the 
 first intimation which he had had that the 
 Pope intended taking this course in regard 
 to the Anglican business, and we had a long 
 talk about it. 
 
 Tuesday, February igt/i. — This morning 
 whilst working in the Vatican archives, which 
 I have done ever since I have been in Rome, 
 I found a Brief of Paul IV (30th October, 
 1555), explaining the meaning of the words in 
 a previous Bull, " recte et rite consecrati " — a 
 very important document. I asked Mgr. 
 Wenzel, the archivist, about it, and he told 
 me that, whilst making some researches for 
 (I think) Cardinal Galimberti, he had lighted 
 upon it, but did not know its precise meaning. 
 
 Wednesday, February 20th, — To-day in 
 the Regesta of Pope Paul IV. I found the 
 
Leaves from my Diary 19 
 
 Bull, Praeclara Charissimi, referred to in the 
 Brief I found yesterday. It is of the highest 
 importance in regard to the Orders question. 
 
 Friday ', February 22nd. — Cardinal 
 Vaughan appeared suddenly at 9 o'clock in 
 the morning bringing the Pope's document 
 giving me leave to examine the papers in the 
 Holy Office. 
 
 Wednesday , February 2jth. — I wrote 
 to-day to Cardinal Rampolla to make a 
 suggestion about the letter he had told me 
 the Holy Father was going to write to the 
 English bishops. I said that on considera- 
 tion I thought it would be better received in 
 England if it were addressed to the English 
 people, or, if not that, to the English people 
 through Cardinal Vaughan. 
 
 Thursday, February 2 8 th. — I called 
 to-day at the Holy Office and saw Mgr. 
 Salua. He told me that the permission I 
 had to examine the papers as to the English 
 Ordinations was most unusual, that he would 
 have to make arrangements with the 
 archivist, and that possibly about next Wed- 
 nesday I should find everything ready. 
 
 Monday, March \th — Mgr. Dunn called 
 on behalf of the Cardinal to ask me to preach 
 
20 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 on St. Gregory's Feast at his church on the 
 Coelian. He said that the evening before 
 Cardinal Vaughan had dined with Cardinal 
 Rampolla at the Vatican, who had told him 
 that the Pope had now thought it better to 
 address the letter he hoped to send out soon, 
 to the Cardinal himself. 
 
 Tuesday, March 12th. — I hear that Lord 
 Halifax is to arrive to-day. 
 
 Wednesday, March iph. — Lord Halifax 
 called when both I and my friend, Mr. 
 Edmund Bishop, who is my constant com- 
 panion during all this period, were out. He 
 left a card with a message that he would 
 call the next day. 
 
 Thursday, March \\th. — I had a very 
 pleasant walk and long talk with Lord 
 Halifax. It was impossible to steer quite 
 clear of the question, and so gradually we 
 got on to it. It is obvious that Lord Halifax 
 has been encouraged to raise the question of 
 English Orders, not that he wants it dis- 
 cussed, examined thoroughly and determined, 
 but that he hopes the Pope, "as an act of 
 wisdom and kindness," may change the tra- 
 ditional view as to invalidity, and allow those 
 who are ordained according to the Anglican 
 Ordinal, and who pass to Rome, to be 
 
Leaves from my Diary 21 
 
 ordained sub conditions He argued strongly 
 that this act of kindness would make for 
 what all had at heart — reunion. 
 
 I begged him earnestly to pause before 
 trying to raise the thorny question of Angli- 
 can Orders. I felt sure that there was a real 
 danger, because I could not conceive it pos- 
 sible that the practice of Rome on so import- 
 ant a matter could be changed without due 
 consideration and examination. If the matter 
 were raised, I felt sure, I said, that the result 
 would be the production of such evidence as 
 would infallibly bring about condemnation of 
 Anglican Orders, and, I added, I would far 
 rather leave matters where they were. 
 
 Friday r , March \$th — Lord Halifax and 
 Mr. Birkbeck called when I was out and had 
 a long talk with Mr. Bishop. They left for 
 me a work in Latin on the question of 
 Anglican Ordinations — De Hierarchies Angli- 
 cana — by Messrs. Denny and Lacey, which 
 has just been published. I spent the evening 
 in examining the book, and it must clearly be 
 carefully studied and considered. I fear that 
 this publication will again start the question 
 of a Commission to examine into the matter, 
 which Cardinal Mazzella told me the other 
 day had been abandoned. Indeed, from the 
 
2 2 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 preface of the volume, contributed by the 
 Bishop of Salisbury, it is obviously intended 
 to claim the consideration of the Roman 
 authorities. I copy here one passage from 
 this preface : 
 
 " Visum est ergo nonnullis inter nos (quibus- 
 cum amicos antehac ignotos, praesertim in 
 Gallia, in hoc consentire cum gaudio videmus) 
 congruum jam adesse tempus ut veritatem de 
 Ordinationibus Anglicanis fratribus nostris, 
 praecipue ecclesiae Latinae, a nobis usque ex 
 saeculo decimo sexto separatis, denuo pro- 
 ponamus." 
 
 This in English would be : 
 
 "It has therefore appeared to some of us 
 (and as agreeing with us in this, we gladly 
 recognise certain friends, especially in France, 
 hitherto unknown) that the proper time has 
 come to submit (proponamus) once more the 
 truth about Anglican Ordinations to our 
 brethren, especially to those of the Latin 
 Church, who since the 16th century have 
 been separated from us." 
 
 If this book is circulated much in Rome — 
 as it is intended to be — it will lead to a full 
 examination of the question, I expect. 
 
 Sunday \ March ijth.—\ dined at the Irish 
 College. Cardinal Vaughan was there and 
 
Leaves from my Diary 23 
 
 told me he had had an interview with the 
 Pope the day before. Amongst other matters, 
 the Holy Father referred to the Anglican 
 Orders question, saying that he had satisfied 
 himself that there would be grave difficulties 
 in the way of any change in the practice of 
 the Church as regards re-ordination. He 
 further said that he had had the best authori- 
 ties consulted, and that there (pointing to his 
 table) he had the opinions of men qualified to 
 judge ; from these, he added, it was clear that 
 without a full examination, no change in the 
 present attitude of the Church would be pos- 
 sible. 
 
 Sunday, March 2\tlu — I dined at the 
 English College with Cardinal Vaughan. 
 Amongst the guests was Lord Halifax, who, 
 after dinner, came and talked to me. He 
 was very earnest about reunion, and said that 
 he thought the first step would be taken if 
 only the Pope would write his letter to the 
 Archbishop of Canterbury. I told him that, 
 in my opinion, such a thing would be absurd, 
 as neither the Archbishop, nor, for that 
 matter, any other Anglicans that I had come 
 across, had shown any desire to make their 
 submission to the Holy See. Lord Halifax 
 then spoke of " Ordinations," and I told him 
 
24 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 that I had looked at the book, De Hierarchia 
 Anglicana, which he had left for me, and that 
 it appeared to my mind, from the Bishop of 
 Salisbury's preface, that it actually invited the 
 Roman authorities to hold an examination of 
 the whole question. He deprecated the idea 
 of an examination, and, as far as I could 
 make out, he thought that the volume showed 
 a prima facie case for a change in the way 
 the Church of Rome dealt with Orders 
 received in the Anglican Church. That is : 
 that there should be not re-ordination, but 
 ordination sub conditione. 
 
 Saturday^ March 30//*. — Lord Halifax 
 called in the early afternoon with the Abbe 
 Portal, alias Dalbus, who was obviously and 
 almost absurdly nervous. Lord Halifax left 
 almost immediately, and, as I had to go out, 
 the Abbe remained to talk with Mr. Bishop. 
 It appears that M. Portal has been here for 
 about a week with Lord Halifax, and is 
 known in the hotel and elsewhere as " il cap- 
 pellano di Milord." The Abbe told Mr. 
 Bishop that the Universe had declared that 
 Cardinal Vaughan and the English Bishops 
 had urged the Holy Office to condemn him 
 and Duchesne for their attitude to the English 
 Orders. Edmund Bishop assured him that 
 
Leaves from my Diary 25 
 
 this was absolutely untrue, and that, to his 
 certain knowledge, it was Cardinal Vaughan 
 who had saved them, by his prompt inter- 
 vention, directly he had heard that they had 
 been delated to the Holy Office. 
 
 I came back before M. Portal left this 
 afternoon, and he remained on a short time 
 afterwards. He told us that he believed 
 Duchesne was going to devote himself to 
 "travailler pour l'union." In M. Portal's 
 opinion, the whole question of the Ordina- 
 tions in the Anglican Church was a theo- 
 logical one, and that the only historical facts 
 of interest and importance were the Consecra- 
 tions of Barlow and of Parker. He was much 
 concerned when I said that I did not think 
 either of these facts was of much importance. 
 He was painfully on his guard ; and of course, 
 as we know, he has fought shy of Catholics 
 ever since he has taken up the Anglican case. 
 I asked him what he thought would be the 
 end of the agitation he had stirred up on the 
 question of Anglican Orders, and he replied 
 that his hopes were that there would be a 
 Commission or conference set on foot, in 
 which both sides would be represented, and 
 that such men as the Bishop of Salisbury and 
 the Bishop of Peterborough should be mem- 
 
26 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 bers. I told him such a meeting would be 
 interesting and perhaps important, but that, 
 in my opinion, it was a dream, and that any 
 deliberate judgment of the Church as to what 
 constituted Orders, in its own sense, must 
 result from an examination made by its own 
 theologians, etc. From our point of view, I 
 added, the whole question is a domestic one. 
 
 Sunday, March 31J/. — This afternoon I 
 went to see Cardinal Vaughan in response to 
 a message from him. I found him disturbed 
 in mind about this unfortunate Anglican 
 Orders question. He had been informed that 
 there was now under consideration the forma- 
 tion of a secret Commission to consider the 
 question. On this Commission there was to 
 be no Cardinal at all, and it was to report 
 directly to the Pope. The Roman Cardinal 
 who had originally told him about this, had 
 expressed great anxiety, and had said that at 
 first it had been intended to put the matter 
 into the hands of the officials of the Holy 
 Office. But this was objected to — by whom 
 we do not know — as they would be sure to 
 pass their judgment against the validity. A 
 Commission of Cardinals was then contem- 
 plated, and some Cardinals were even asked 
 to take part in it ; but it was calculated that 
 
Leaves from my Diary 27 
 
 the result would probably be the same. It 
 was then proposed to have this secret Com- 
 mission. Cardinal Vaughan told me that he 
 had spoken strongly to Cardinal Rampolla 
 against such a method of procedure, and said 
 that if any examination of the question were 
 held, it should be made by a properly con- 
 stituted Commission of experts. 
 
 Wednesday, aApril yd, — I had a long and 
 interesting walk with Lord Halifax. We 
 spoke, of course, on religious matters a good 
 deal, and my impression is that his belief is 
 not Catholic (I mean our) belief in very 
 essential matters. For instance, I do not 
 think he believes as I do about the Blessed 
 Eucharist and the Sacrifice of the Mass, 
 although I had previously thought he did. 
 It was rather a revelation to me, what I 
 understood him to say with regard to his 
 belief in the Sacrifice. Also he gave me to 
 understand that he regarded the early reform- 
 ers, ]R.idley, Cranmer and Co., as actuated 
 merely by the idea of cutting off superstitions 
 and excrescences, and as being really animated 
 by Catholic principles and holding Catholic 
 doctrine. 
 
 In the afternoon Cardinal Vaughan came 
 from his farewell audience with the Pope. 
 
28 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 He brought a message to me from His 
 Holiness that he desired me to remain on in 
 Rome, as he wanted me to do other work, 
 and, at any rate, that I was not to go until 
 he gave permission. Cardinal Vaughan 
 asked the Pope whether he had settled about 
 having any enquiry into the question of 
 Anglican Ordinations. The Pope replied 
 that at present he had no intention of appoint- 
 ing a Commission of any kind to consider 
 the matter. That his method was to do one 
 thing at a time, and that at present he was 
 busy about his letter on Unity ; that he 
 wanted to see how that was received ; if well, 
 then it might encourage him to take another 
 step. Finally, he declared that he had quite 
 made up his mind that if any Commission 
 were appointed it should be open and repre- 
 sentative, and that, of course, there should be 
 Englishmen on it. 
 
 'Thursday, April ^.th. — I saw Cardinal 
 Vaughan off on his way to England this 
 morning at 9 o'clock. 
 
 Saturday, aApril 6 th. — I received a visit 
 from Archbishop Walsh of Dublin, who had 
 that morning been received by the Pope, 
 who questioned him about the general 
 attitude of Anglicans towards union with the 
 
Leaves from my Diary 29 
 
 Church. His Grace quite confirmed the 
 notion given him of late by Cardinal Vaughan 
 and others that the idea of any general 
 inclination towards the Church was a myth, 
 and that the Holy Father had been in this 
 matter entirely misled by foreigners, who 
 were incapable of understanding the religious 
 situation in the Anglican Church. 
 
 Sunday, aApril jth. — In the morning 
 M. "Dalbus" came to call. Mr. Edmund 
 Bishop and I did our best to get out of him 
 his own particular views on English religious 
 matters ; also, we tried hard to understand the 
 role he was playing and what exactly his 
 ceuvre, as it was called by a Frenchman 
 speaking to me yesterday, really is. He 
 acknowledged that history showed clearly 
 that the English Reformers were quite 
 unorthodox about the Holy Eucharist and 
 the Sacrifice of the Mass ; but he claimed 
 that, in some mysterious way, the general 
 " will " to do what Christ intended covered 
 their admittedly actual intention not to 
 ordain sacrificing priests. The Abb6 was 
 again very nervous and just at a critical 
 point jumped up, saying he was late, and fled. 
 Mem. I don't think we shall see him again, 
 although he promised to return and continue 
 
30 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 our conversation, which so much interested 
 him. 
 
 'Thursday, <tApril nth. — This is Maundy 
 Thursday, and I went to the chapel in the 
 temporary College of Sant' Anselmo in the 
 Bocca di Leone. Lord Halifax and his 
 friend were there, and these two carried 
 candles before the Blessed Sacrament in the 
 procession to the Altar of Repose, and knelt 
 in adoration like the rest of us. I do not 
 wonder at Italians thinking that these high 
 Anglicans are absolutely Catholics in our 
 sense, taking part as they do in these 
 • 'popish ceremonies." 
 
 Easter Sunday, <iApril \\th. — I came to 
 the Abbey at Cava for a few days yesterday. 
 The abbot and monks were all agog, anxious 
 to hear when they might expect to have the 
 news of the submission of the English Church 
 to the Holy See, which they all believe to be 
 imminent, if it had not already taken place. 
 I tried to undeceive them, but did not succeed, 
 I fear. 
 
 In the afternoon I went to pay an Easter 
 visit to the Archbishop of Salerno. He 
 overwhelmed me with kindness, chiefly, I 
 believe, because he thought I should be able 
 to give him information about the return of 
 
Leaves from my Diary 31 
 
 England to the unity of the Church. He 
 was fully persuaded that one might at any 
 time have in the " Giornali," the full account 
 of the submission of the Archbishop of 
 Canterbury to the Pope. I did my best to 
 laugh him out of his notion, but I fancy he 
 regarded me as a "scoffer," and will continue 
 to look in the newspapers for the happy 
 event he was taught to expect by some 
 French priests who recently visited him. 
 
 Tuesday \ aApril 1 6th — To-day at Amalfi, 
 in the reading-room of the hotel, I over- 
 heard an English clergyman loudly approving 
 the action of the Archbishop of Canterbury 
 in making it clear that Rome would have to 
 give up its distinctive dogmas before it could 
 be welcomed to union with the English 
 branch of the Christian Church. 
 
 Friday, April lgt/i. — I returned to Rome 
 last Wednesday to find many rumours 
 Moating about. The interminable question 
 of the Anglican Ordinations seems to be 
 everywhere, and it is impossible to escape 
 from it. It is said that the Pope had given 
 Duchesne a medal for his essay on Anglican 
 Orders, and the fact is represented every- 
 where as a papal approval of the Abbe's 
 view of their validity. This, of course, is 
 
32 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 absurd, but it makes for talk, and the fashion 
 has set in among English visitors to assume 
 that the validity of these Orders is certain. 
 I to-day heard a case of a lady, who had 
 been received into the Church, being laughed 
 at for taking the step, when there could be 
 no doubt whatever that before long Rome 
 would have to declare that the Anglican 
 Church was the same as the Catholic and 
 Roman Church, and she might have saved 
 herself the trouble of change and a break 
 with the past. 
 
 This evening Fr. Brandi called. He had 
 seen the Pope, who had told him I had 
 found in the archives a Bull and a Brief of 
 Pope Paul IV, dealing with Anglican 
 Ordinations, and he would be glad to see 
 them. 
 
 I hear that Padre Semeria, the Barnabite, 
 has written an article in praise of Dalbus' 
 pamphlet and of the Latin work of Messrs. 
 Denny and Lacey. A reporter of a German 
 paper tells me that M. Dalbus is quite certain 
 that the Pope is going to deal with the ques- 
 tion of Orders, according to the suggestions 
 he, M. Dalbus, has made to him. What this 
 means I do not know. 
 
 I hear that on Wednesday last Lord 
 
Leaves from my Diary 33 
 
 Halifax, with his wife and daughter, and 
 Mr. Birkbeck were at the Pope's Mass. 
 Lord Halifax asked for a ticket for the 
 Abbe Portal. After Mass, they had a brief 
 interview with the Holy Father, the Abbe 
 being introduced as "il cappellano di Milord." 
 
 Saturday^ <t4pril 2.0th — This evening I 
 had a message to go to the Pope. I reached 
 the Vatican about 6 o'clock, and was received 
 by the Holy Father immediately. The 
 reasons for his sending for me were chiefly 
 two. I had for weeks been waiting to get 
 access to the papers of the Holy Office, for 
 which I had obtained his permission. For 
 one reason or another I had been constantly 
 put off, and, somewhat losing patience, I had 
 written to the Vatican to know whether the 
 Pope wanted me to see the papers or not. 
 The reply came in the form of an order to 
 come to see the Pope. He had himself, on 
 hearing my letter, sent for the papers, and 
 had arranged for me to have a room in the 
 Vatican in which to examine them. 
 
 The other matter he desired to ask about 
 was his letter on Unity (Ad Anglos). It 
 had been agreed that the English translation 
 should appear on the same day as the pub- 
 lication in Rome, and for this purpose it had 
 
34 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 been settled that the date upon which both 
 should be issued should be next Monday 
 (April 22nd). By some mistake the Times 
 printed the document to-day (Saturday, 20th), 
 and the Holy Father had received a tele- 
 gram, which he showed me, telling him of 
 this, and wanting some explanation. He 
 was not at all pleased, as the letter had not 
 yet been issued to the Cardinals. 
 
 The Pope again asked me for the paper 
 on Anglican Orders which he had ordered 
 me to write some time back. " Why have I 
 not had it ? " he asked. I replied that I had 
 found it impossible to write anything until I 
 had been able to examine all the documents, 
 of which those he had just given me were 
 the most important, from one point of view. 
 "But," he answered, "I have several opinions 
 there (pointing to his table), all of which 
 have been written without sight of these 
 documents." "Yes," I answered, "I have 
 no doubt. I cannot say how others can give 
 any opinion of value without knowing the 
 facts, but I can't." Upon which the Holy 
 Father patted me on the head and said 
 " Bravo ! that is quite proper." 
 
 Wednesday r , May 1st. — To-day I finished 
 a brief statement of my view on the 
 
Leaves from my Diary 35 
 
 Anglican Ordinations question, and this 
 evening I gave it to the Holy Father. It 
 is time for me to be returning to England, 
 and so I took this opportunity to ask the 
 Pope's leave to set out homeward. In giving 
 me this permission, the Holy Father told me 
 that I should probably be sent for next year. 
 He had not yet quite made up his mind 
 whether the question of Anglican Orders, 
 which was being pressed upon him, would 
 have to be examined at all. If it was 
 decided to hold an examination, which at 
 present remained doubtful, he would require 
 me to come back and be one member of the 
 Commission of Consultors. 
 
 Tuesday, May jth — I am leaving Rome 
 to-day for England with Mr. Edmund 
 Bishop. Our intention is to remain for a 
 few days in Paris. 
 
 Sunday, May 12th. — I left Mr. Bishop in 
 Paris yesterday, and came on here (St. 
 Edmund's, Douai). I want to examine 
 Cardinal Pole's Register, which is in the 
 town archives. I do not expect to find 
 any trace of the Bull of Paul IV. in this 
 Register, as it has been examined by many 
 people, and notably by Canon Estcourt, to 
 whom the Bull Praeclara that I found in 
 
36 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 Rome would have been a most important 
 document. However, it is worth looking 
 carefully to-morrow. 
 
 Monday , May \ph. — I was early this 
 morning at the Archives, and went through 
 the two volumes of Pole's Register. In the 
 afternoon I found a copy of this Bull Prae- 
 clara Charissimi entered in the second 
 volume, together with the attestation of 
 Cardinal Pole that he had received it, dated 
 September 22nd, 1555. 
 
 'June zjth. — To-day I received a letter 
 from Rome telling me that so far nothing 
 had been decided as to the holding of any 
 Commission about Anglican Ordinations. 
 The matter was constantly being kept before 
 the mind of the Pope, but the tendency was 
 to encourage some sort of a change in prac- 
 tice, on the ground of kindness, rather than 
 the holding of an examination. The writer 
 tells me that Messrs. Denny and Lacey's 
 De Hierarchia Anglicana is being spread 
 about and much read, and that the Bishop 
 of Salisbury's Preface is being quoted as a 
 proof of a genuine submission to the judg- 
 ment of the Holy See, and of a bond-fide 
 desire for re-union. Several documents, 
 which have been drawn up on the subject of 
 
Leaves from my Diary 37 
 
 Anglican Orders, have been printed ready to 
 form the basis of any discussion, should any 
 such be decided on. The authorities in Rome 
 find the greatest difficulty in understanding 
 how people can call themselves Catholic and 
 Apostolic, etc., without meaning exactly the 
 same as we do, and holding the same beliefs 
 as we do. The Pope remarked the other 
 day to a Cardinal that this use of words was 
 misleading, and that some years ago, to his 
 knowledge, when a person said he was a 
 Catholic, he meant that he was a Roman 
 Catholic. 
 
 August jth — A letter from Cardinal 
 Vaughan says that he has urged the Holy 
 Father again not to " change the practice of 
 the Church for three hundred years without 
 the fullest investigation and without the 
 co-operation of the representatives of the 
 Catholic Church in England. I ask only for 
 the fullest investigation before any decision 
 is come to on so important a matter, no 
 matter what the decision may be." 
 
1896. 
 
 January 6th, 1896. — A copy of a tract in 
 French on the English Ordinations, just 
 published, was sent to me by order of the 
 Pope. It must be studied ; but my glance 
 through its pages has made me think that 
 some people must constantly be working to 
 make it certain that whatever happens there 
 shall certainly be no decision given by any 
 Commission that may be held, unless it can 
 be secured that that decision is favourable to 
 the validity. In a note, the author of the 
 tract asserts that motives of expediency 
 might induce the Holy See not to pronounce 
 on the matter at all. This seems to me to 
 show that the writer has forgotten that it 
 is a question of reiterating a Sacrament, 
 and that if the Holy See, after inquiry, were 
 convinced of the validity of Anglican Orders, 
 or of even a reasonable doubt, it would be a 
 positive duty to declare the truth. The 
 author cannot mean this, I fancy, and so I 
 think he is preparing the way for there being 
 no decision at all, in the event of the Com- 
 
Leaves from my Diary 39 
 
 mission finding that, from the Church's point 
 of view, Anglican Orders must be regarded 
 as invalid. 
 
 February 2nd. — Having read this French 
 brochure, I have to-day sent the author a few 
 remarks upon it, according to his request, 
 and a copy of my criticisms to the Holy 
 Father. 
 
 February 6th. — I hear to-day from Rome 
 that I shall probably be wanted soon, as the 
 Pope speaks of appointing the long-talked-of 
 Commission almost at once. Duchesne is 
 said to have given out his determination to 
 work so as to have the question of Anglican 
 Ordinations settled, apart from the historical 
 setting of facts ; and hence many, I am told, 
 now think in Rome that a direction to hold 
 re-ordination sub conditione will be the final 
 result of such restricted enquiry. If this 
 cannot be secured and a decision adverse to 
 the validity is come to, it is hoped that at 
 least the result will be a questio dilata with 
 no formal decision. 
 
 February 1 \th. — There is some news this 
 morning about the projected Commission. 
 On Monday, February 2nd, the Daily 
 Chronicle announced that the first session of 
 the Commission would be held on the follow- 
 
40 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 ing Sunday. In response to a telegram of 
 enquiry, I was informed from Rome that the 
 news was a little "previous." But to-day 
 brings news of the appointment of Mgr. 
 Merry del Val as the Secretary of the Com- 
 mission. The same letter tells me that 
 " great efforts are being made to prepare the 
 way for a sub conditione result," and that it is 
 thought " that at least it will be possible to 
 secure for the Anglicans that the question be 
 declared dilata " — that is, shelved sine die. 
 
 March i^th. — A letter received from 
 Mgr. Merry del Val, as Secretary of the 
 Commission appointed to deal with the 
 question of Anglican Orders, tells me that 
 the Pope expects us — i.e., Canon Moyes, Fr. 
 David Fleming and me — in Rome by the 
 19th. This afternoon brought a line from 
 Canon Moyes saying that he had heard from 
 Cardinal Vaughan that we were to start 
 immediately. 
 
 Monday ', ^March 1 6th. — This morning 
 Canon Moyes, Fr. David and self reached 
 Paris on our way to Rome. 
 
 Friday 1 JMarch 20th We arrived in 
 
 Rome about midnight yesterday, and the 
 first thing this morning we sent word to the 
 Vatican that we had come. We had brought 
 
Leaves from my Diary 4.1 
 
 out some copies of the Expositio on the 
 Anglican Orders we had drawn up, and 
 sent two, with one copy of Cranmer's works 
 for the purpose of reference, to the Vatican. 
 We were informed that the procedure in the 
 examination of the Anglican Orders question 
 about to beg-in would be as follows. First 
 we were clearly to understand that we had 
 not to settle or determine anything. We 
 were consultors, only charged to discuss the 
 various questions and to prepare the evidence, 
 etc., for the Cardinals who would have to 
 decide. 
 
 Cardinal Mazzella, who we understand has 
 been relieved of all other work for the 
 present, is to preside at the meetings to be 
 held at the Vatican. The three members of 
 this Commission, besides us three from Eng- 
 land, are Monsignor Gasparri, the Abbe 
 Duchesne and the Jesuit Professor of the 
 Roman College, De Augustinis. The pro- 
 ceedings are to be private, and I understand 
 Cardinal Mazzella is going to explain at the 
 first session that everything is to be con- 
 sidered as confidential, and not to go beyond 
 our own selves. The various " papers " or 
 mtmoires, or vota, which are printed, are to 
 be distributed as confidential documents and 
 
42 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 time is to be given for study and, if necessary, 
 reply. After as many meetings of this kind 
 have been held as may be thought necessary, 
 the results of the discussions with the 
 minutes of the meetings will go together 
 with all documents and papers on the subject 
 to the Holy Office. Then, as I understand 
 the proposed procedure, when these papers, 
 etc., have been digested and considered, the 
 question will go before the Cardinals of the 
 Holy Office, who will all study it, and when 
 they are ready to report, there will be a full 
 Congregation at which the Pope himself will 
 preside. Then, after hearing all opinions, he 
 (the Pope), will take the matter into his own 
 hands, and after a delay for prayer and con- 
 sideration will decide the question, or, if he 
 thinks fit, as some are strongly urging upon 
 him, if he cannot pronounce for a change of 
 practice to the sub conditione re-ordination, 
 he will declare the question dilata, that is, 
 will give no decision at all. 
 
 I hear that some English Catholics have 
 put in a memorial to the effect that " their 
 party is not represented " on the Commission. 
 I suppose them to mean that Father Scannell, 
 who is believed to be in favour of the validity 
 of the Orders, is not a member. It certainly 
 
Leaves from my Diary 43 
 
 would be a good thing if this can be arranged, 
 so that the whole question may be threshed 
 out from every point of view. 
 
 Sunday, March 22nd, — Father David, 
 Canon Moves, and I were asked to call upon 
 Cardinal Mazzella, which we did at the 
 "Ave Maria." He received us most 
 graciously, and immediately spoke of the 
 business that had brought us to Rome. He 
 said he greatly regretted that he had been 
 given charge of this matter, but that he 
 looked upon it as a point of obedience. We 
 replied that to all of us in England it was a 
 matter of great regret that this burning 
 question of Anglican Ordinations had ever 
 been raised at all ; but that as it had been 
 brought forward, it seemed to us necessary 
 that it should be thoroughly examined and a 
 definite decision, whatever it might be, come 
 to. He told us that he knew we English had 
 not pressed this question forward, and that 
 the promoters were certain Frenchmen, and 
 that, in his opinion, it was now important 
 that the whole question should be con- 
 sidered in the light of historical evidence ; the 
 theological side must be combined with the 
 consideration of the facts. This, he said, is the 
 great difficulty for foreigners ; and he forth- 
 
44 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 with illustrated what he meant by telling us 
 that a very able man " happened to be a few 
 months ago in Rome, and came to tell me 
 that he was anxious to complete certain parts 
 of a tract he was desirous to write on this 
 question of the English Orders, and that he 
 knew little about the history of the question 
 beyond what he had learned in the Roman 
 Schools. Whereupon I impressed upon him 
 the necessity of reading the best and most 
 recent English works written upon the sub- 
 ject. ' You know English, of course ? ' I 
 said. To my surprise he replied that he was 
 quite ignorant of the language ; and yet," 
 added the Cardinal, " without a knowledge of 
 English it seems to me that it is almost im- 
 possible to form any true judgment of this 
 matter." 
 
 At 9 p.m. we received a letter from the 
 Vatican, marked urgente, to inform us that 
 the Pope desired to receive us in audience 
 to-morrow at noon ; and that the first confer- 
 ence would be held on Tuesday at 10.30 in a 
 room prepared on the first floor of the 
 Vatican. 
 
 <£Monday, March zyd. — At noon we were 
 received by the Holy Father, who talked at 
 some length upon the business that had 
 
Leaves from my Diary 45 
 
 brought us to Rome. In response to some- 
 thing we said as to its being unfortunate that 
 the question had ever been raised, the Pope 
 said that it had been forced upon him by cer- 
 tain Frenchmen acting for some Anglicans, 
 and that it was necessary that it should be 
 determined once for all, now that so much had 
 been heard about it. His Holiness told us 
 that he trusted we would keep our delibera- 
 tions strictly to ourselves, and not allow 
 things to get into the newspapers. We shall 
 all be under the Secretum Pontificium, and 
 this, he said, with a laugh, may not be neces- 
 sary for Englishmen, who can hold their 
 tongues, but others perhaps are more " tigers" 
 and would talk outside to journalists and 
 others. At the conclusion of the interview 
 the Pope told us he was engaged on an 
 encyclical letter on The Church, and asked 
 us to translate it for him into English. 
 
 On leaving the Vatican we met a friend, 
 who told us he had just seen Duchesne, who 
 had expressed his dislike of the whole matter. 
 He said he had no wish to have anything to do 
 with the case, and that practically all he knew 
 he had got from the pamphlet of Dalbus. 
 
 Tuesday, £March z\th. — We had to-day 
 our first meeting in the Vatican. Cardinal 
 
 5 
 
46 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 Mazzella presided at one end of a long table 
 with rounded ends. On the right side sat in 
 order Mgr. Gasparri, The Abbe Duchesne 
 and Padre De Augustinis : on the left side 
 of the Cardinal were Canon Moyes, myself 
 and Fr. David. Mgr. Merry del Val, as secre- 
 tary, sat at a small table at the right of our 
 bigger table. The Cardinal was in the full 
 state dress of a Cardinal, and the scarlet silk 
 table-cover with the silver inkstands set before 
 each of us, made me realise that we were 
 about to hold the first of a series of meetings 
 of no ordinary importance. 
 
 The proceedings commenced, after prayers, 
 with an address from Cardinal Mazzella, in 
 which he exhorted all to speak frankly and 
 fully on the matters that were to be discussed. 
 He ended by asking the Secretary to read a 
 letter addressed to him by Cardinal Rampolla, 
 placing us all under the pontifical secret in 
 regard to our meetings. 
 
 Some question was then raised as to the 
 propriety of allowing Anglican representatives 
 to attend our meetings and to take part in 
 our discussions ; but Cardinal Mazzella at 
 once pointed out that this was a matter 
 entirely outside our functions. We were met 
 at the invitation of the Pope to consider a 
 
Leaves from my Diary 47 
 
 question that, however it might interest those 
 who were not members of the Church, was 
 entirely a domestic one — namely, the deter- 
 mination whether certain Orders could be so 
 regarded as valid according to our Catholic 
 principles. It was a domestic question, and 
 so far as we were concerned our work was 
 merely to sift the evidence and prepare it for 
 further consideration and final determination. 
 The Cardinal further pointed out that even 
 if we could admit Anglican representatives, it 
 would be difficult, if not impossible, to say 
 who properly would represent the view of the 
 English Established Church. Quite as many 
 members of that Church disbelieved in the 
 validity of their Orders, in our sense, as 
 believed in them : that a great number would 
 scout the idea that they were priests in our 
 sense. 
 
 It was agreed that all the members of our 
 Commission should have before them the 
 views as to the nature of Orders and the Sac- 
 raments held by both the High and the Low 
 Church parties. The various papers, which 
 had been printed, were then distributed, and 
 we adjourned till Tuesday in Easter week. 
 
 Wednesday , March 25///. — We to-day had 
 a visit of considerable length from a member 
 
48 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 of the Commission to discuss the question of 
 " the hour " — the Anglican Ordinations. He 
 told us that he did not read English, and so 
 had not studied the matter in any English 
 books on the subject. He had formed his 
 views mainly from the pamphlet of Dalbus 
 and the Latin De Hierarchies Anglicana of 
 Messrs. Denny and Lacey. He thought 
 that if the matter was to be decided in the 
 usual way of the Roman Congregations, a 
 positive and even scientific decision would 
 be difficult, and he thought that, as the result 
 of the present enquiry, the practice of ordina- 
 tion sub conditione would be introduced. 
 
 Friday, £March 2jth. — We heard to-day 
 on what is apparently good authority that 
 Lord Halifax had communicated to the 
 Pope, through one of the Commission, his 
 opinion that if any decision adverse to the 
 validity of their Orders was arrived at and 
 published, there would be an end to reunion 
 for ever. In this view, the Pope was 
 informed, the Archbishops of Canterbury 
 and York and the Anglican bishops generally 
 agreed. Other people, too, are already play- 
 ing the " diplomatic stop " in the same sense, 
 although really we have not begun our work 
 yet. It is difficult to believe that after all the 
 
Leaves from my Diary 49 
 
 fuss and trouble our work will be thrown 
 away, and that no decision will be given, 
 unless the decision be in favour of the Orders, 
 or declaring them doubtful. The situation is 
 almost comical, if it were not so serious. We 
 certainly have done nothing to bring about 
 this unfortunate discussion ; but holding as 
 we do that the Orders are invalid, we are 
 hoping to prove this to the satisfaction of 
 those who will have ultimately to judge the 
 question. The party who have raised the 
 matter are apparently determined to prevent 
 any adverse decision, should it appear that 
 this is likely to be the final result. It 
 reminds one of the man who would not 
 consent to a person proposed as an arbitrator 
 unless he would previously pledge himself to 
 give the award in his favour. 
 
 ^Monday \*March 30///. — I was told to-day 
 that there could be no doubt that the plan of 
 the French promoters of this question and of 
 their Anglican friends is to secure the sub 
 conditions result of the Commission. An 
 Anglican friend said to-day that they had 
 been assured by several Catholic priests that 
 it would be impossible for the Holy See to 
 decide that the Anglican Orders were invalid. 
 I replied that we must wait and see. No 
 
50 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 one can tell, and it is always dangerous 
 " to prophesy till you know." 
 
 Wednesday, aApril ist. — We learn to-day 
 that Cardinal Vaughan is sending out 
 Father Scannell at the Pope's suggestion. 
 It appears that it was represented to the 
 Holy Father, as I have before noted, that 
 there were some Catholic priests in England 
 who did not take the same views on the 
 subject of Anglican Orders which we (i.e., 
 Canon Moyes, Father David and I) held, or 
 were supposed to hold. The Pope was given 
 the name of Father Scannell and he ordered 
 a letter to be written to Cardinal Vaughan to 
 suggest that either Fr. S. or someone holding 
 the same views, should be sent out to take 
 part in the work of the Commission. This is 
 a very wise move, and as the Cardinal, we 
 suppose, will have to find the money for 
 expenses, this should be a positive proof of 
 his desire to get at the truth. 
 
 Friday, April yd. — We hear to-day that 
 the Holy Father has nominated as a member 
 of our Commission, together with Father 
 Scannell, P. Giuseppe Calasanzio de 
 Llevaneras, a Capuchin.* He is said to be 
 
 * Now Cardinal Vives y Tuto, Prefect of the Congregation 
 of Religious. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 5 1 
 
 a first rate man and is a consultor of the 
 Holy Office. He was also quite prepared 
 for the work of the Commission, as he had 
 already written his opinion on the question 
 for the Holy Father. 
 
 Saturday, April 4th. — Fr. Scannell arrived 
 this morning, but as there was no room at 
 San Silvestro, where we three were staying, 
 he had to go to the English College. It has 
 already got about Rome, in the marvellous 
 way in which rumours circulate in the Eternal 
 City, that Fr. S. has come out to represent 
 the Anglican side in this discussion. # 
 
 Tuesday, April yth — We met at the 
 Vatican for our second session at 10 o'clock. 
 The two new members were present. The 
 disposition of the room was somewhat 
 changed. A long square table was sub- 
 stituted for the oblong one and Mgr. Merry 
 del Val sat at the end opposite to Cardinal 
 Mazzella, having Fr. Scannell on his right 
 and Padre Llevaneras on his left. The 
 discussion was chiefly confined to the con- 
 sideration of the practice of the Church in 
 its treatment of Anglican Orders, and the 
 origin of the practice. 
 
 * Mr. Lacey says, A Roman Diary, p. 38. " Scannell 
 frankly says he doe9 not believe in the validity, but he is 
 working for no decision at all. 1 ' 
 
52 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 Thursday \ aApril gth. — We held our third 
 session this morning, the discussion all turn- 
 ing on the Bull and Brief of Paul IV. 
 
 Saturday, aApril nth. — To-day we met 
 for the fourth time.* Most of the morning 
 was taken up with a consideration of the two 
 decisions of 1684 and 1704^ 
 
 Monday, <t/[pril 1 yh. — This morning 
 was our fifth session, and it was occupied in 
 considering the Praxis of the Church in 
 
 * Mr. Lacey, Ibid., p. 32, writes, " Ap. 1 1. Called on Gasparri 
 at 8.30 to take him a copy of the register of Ferrar's consecra- 
 tion, and some notes. The session of the Commission at 10 a.m. 
 . . . afternoon. . . . Duchesne reported that our information 
 had been very useful at the morning session, and had fully 
 established the fact that Ferrar was consecrated according to 
 the Pontifical." Here Mr. Lacey must have entirely mis- 
 understood the Abbe's remarks, for nothing of the kind 
 happened at the Commission. The question of Ferrar's 
 consecration was indeed raised, but so far from the result 
 being to " fully establish the fact that Ferrar was consecrated 
 according to the Pontifical," the majority agreed that there 
 had certainly been some changes made in the rite, and that 
 the Catholics of England at the time, and since, had never 
 regarded Ferrar as a Bishop. This view was strengthened 
 by the fact that at the time of his degradation he was 
 regarded merely as a priest, ordained according to the 
 Pontifical, and was degraded from the priesthood only, by 
 those who may be presumed to have known that, though he 
 was called a Bishop by the reforming party, he had not been 
 consecrated validly. 
 
 f Mr. Lacey {Ibid., p. 135), says that "in the Commission 
 Cardinal Mazzella refused to let the consultors go behind the 
 Gordon decision : they were consultors of the Holy Office 
 and were bound by all its decisions." This impression of Mr. 
 Lacey is quite unfounded. From the very beginning it was 
 clearly understood that we were perfectly free to adduce any 
 arguments or bring forth any factum novum which might 
 alter or modify the previous practice of the Holy See. In 
 point of fact the whole ground-work of the Gordon decision 
 was fully discussed and re-examined. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 53 
 
 re-ordaining Anglican ministers from the 
 earliest time that there was any question 
 with regard to any one ordained according 
 to the Anglican Ordinal. Also the evidence 
 that in the time of Pole, the Orders which had 
 not been bestowed according to the ancient 
 Catholic Pontifical were disregarded as 
 Orders. # 
 
 We were asked to give in writing our 
 opinions whether, granting the practice of 
 the Church, there could be shown to exist 
 any " gravis sima ratio" why that practice 
 should be changed. 
 
 Wednesday, zApril 1 $th. — This morning 
 we had a long talk with Padre de Augustinis 
 in our room. He appears to think that we 
 shall all agree as to the invalid nature of the 
 
 * According- to Mr. Lacey (Ibid., p. 35), the Abbe Duchesne 
 reported to him the next day, April 14th, "that out of forty 
 cases alleged by Moyes, in which Pole or those acting under 
 his authority had refused to recognise the Edwardine Orders, 
 he had demolished thirty-eight and a half. This has much 
 impressed de Augustinis." Most of Mr. Lacey 's readers will 
 naturally conclude that this was done at the meeting of the 
 Commission. I would point out, however, that the Abbe did 
 not say so, and this wholesale destruction was certainly not 
 accomplished in any session of the Commission. Possibly 
 Duchesne was recording the result of a meeting thus 
 recorded by Mr. Lacey (p. 33). " Ap. 12, Low Sunday — 
 afternoon. Duchesne and Gasparri came by appointment and 
 we did three hours' hard work investigating the cases alleged 
 by Moyes as showing that Pole rejected the Edwardine 
 Orders. Duchesne is satisfied that Pole made no distinction 
 between the men ordained by the two rites, but Gasparri is of 
 the contrary opinion." 
 
54 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 Form used in the Anglican rite ; but that 
 practically, in view of the opinions of some 
 theologians and others who have expressed 
 the opinions they have done, the result will 
 be to let the Anglicans down easily by 
 declaring the Orders doubtful, and give the 
 sub conditione solution. He thought it would 
 please everyone if we could agree to this. 
 We told him that it was impossible to agree 
 to anything that could not be made to square 
 with the facts ; and that any decision given 
 on the ground that it would be a " kind act " 
 seemed to us unworthy of serious men 
 charged with a serious duty. Here we are 
 again : always and everywhere we are met 
 with the same suggestion of a sub conditione 
 conclusion. I cannot believe that in the end, 
 as sensible beings, we shall have to take 
 refuge in a change of practice without some 
 reason, "as an act of kindness." Of course, 
 if, as a result of the discussion, we are con- 
 vinced that the Anglican Orders are valid, 
 or doubtful, we must as honest men report in 
 that sense ; and similarly, if we are convinced 
 of their invalidity, we are bound to say so. 
 But why this determination to work out one 
 solution because this would give pleasure to 
 Frenchmen and Anglicans ? 
 
Leaves from my Diary 55 
 
 Saturday, April 18///. — The sixth session 
 was held to-day, and lasted from 10 to 1. 
 After the minutes or acta of the last meeting 
 had been passed, the written replies to the 
 questions proposed to us by Cardinal Maz- 
 zella at last meeting were read and handed 
 to the Secretary. 
 
 Sunday, April igtli. — We had asked from 
 the Holy Office some cases to show the 
 practice of the Church as to re-ordination and 
 ordination sub conditione. To-day the Asses- 
 sore of the Holy Office furnishes a great 
 number of modern cases, and from these it 
 appears clear that if the 1st and 2nd imposi- 
 tion of hands has been left out, the practice 
 is to ordain absolute again. If the third 
 imposition, then the re-ordination is sub 
 conditione. 
 
 Tuesday, April 21st. — The seventh ses- 
 sion, put off from yesterday, was held this 
 morning. The case of Barlow occupied us 
 most of the morning ; # the question of co- 
 
 * Mr. Lacey {Ibid. p. 46) relates the following- in regard 
 to this session of the Commission : " Duchesne tells how he 
 used with great effect in the Commission an argument which I 
 supplied a few days ago. Pole, on the receipt of the Brief Regi- 
 mini, must have verified the consecration of all bishops 
 promoted during the Schism, to make sure they had been 
 consecrated in forma ecclesiae, in order that the ordinations 
 they had performed might stand good. In doing this he must 
 have either verified Barlow's consecration, or found that he was 
 
56 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 consecrators was also treated, and on Satur- 
 day next we are to discuss the Rite itself. 
 
 Thursday \ April 23rd. — To-day we went 
 in the morning to work in the Vatican. We 
 examined the dossier of the Holy Office 
 papers on Ordination questions from 1603 to 
 1698. These documents make it quite 
 certain that the usage of sub-conditione ordi- 
 nations and that of absohite re-ordinations was 
 fully understood half a century before the 
 Gordon case of 1 704. Also that the various 
 Oriental forms were quite as well known as 
 they are to-day. Morinus and suchlike 
 authors are freely quoted in the various vota. 
 
 Friday \ aApril 2\th. — The London Daily 
 Chronicle, which came to hand this morning, 
 reports a speech of Lord Halifax to the 
 Church Union. This is interesting. He 
 warns the Pope on no account to condemn 
 Anglican Orders, and he names Duchesne, 
 Gasparri, Scannell, and De Augustinis as 
 being in favour of the Validity of the Orders. 
 How can he have got to know this ? We 
 
 not consecrated ; and in the latter case it would certainly have 
 been heard of. Moyes replied that there was no proof that 
 Pole did so. ' Then,' said Duchesne, ' he was a very un- 
 faithful representative of the Pope.' " This incident, I can 
 safely say, never took place in any session of the Commission. 
 If it had, the obvious reply would have been to point out that 
 Barlow was safely abroad before Pole arrived, and so could 
 not have been examined in his own case. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 57 
 
 who are with them could not speak so cer- 
 tainly as to their position, though we have 
 been present at all the discussions. 
 
 We have heard that two Anglican clergy- 
 men, Mr. Lacey and Father Puller, a Cowley 
 Father, had been in Rome from the begin- 
 ning with a view to render any assistance 
 necessary to the Commission. To-day "we 
 understand from a friend of theirs and our 
 own that they have been kept au courant 
 with everything that has been said and done 
 at the confidential meetings of the Commis- 
 sion, as they expressed to him surprise at 
 some of the theological statements made. 
 Also Mr. Lacey had referred to what he 
 considered an astoundingly false statement 
 in our Expositio, which was printed for the 
 use of the Commission, showing that it had 
 been shown to him. They did not disguise 
 the fact that they had seen all the private 
 documents and discussed the whole matter 
 with members of the Commission. So far as 
 we are concerned, we think it a good thing 
 that they should be able to educate some 
 members of the Commission to their views.* 
 It would perhaps be useful if we had per- 
 
 * Mr. Lacey (Ibid., p. 35) says, April 15th: "Gasparri has 
 seen Cardinal Rampolla, spoken about us, and obtained per- 
 mission to show us anything- and consult us." 
 
58 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 mission to communicate what is going on to 
 Cardinal Vaughan, but our mouths are shut. 
 
 Saturday \ zApril 25th. — To-day is our 
 Eighth Session. We began at 10 and sat till 
 12.15. 
 
 For most of the first hour the discussion 
 on the Barlow case was renewed. # After 
 that, the whole of the session was devoted to 
 question of the Form in se, and the argu- 
 ments were not finished when we had to rise. 
 Father David has to take his turn at the 
 next session, f 
 
 * Mr. Lacey (Introduction, p. 21) says : " When I read my 
 Diary with the deliberate judgment of a later day, two things 
 strike me as remarkable. The first is the disproportionate 
 attention paid by the Commission to unimportant points. It 
 seems to be all about Barlow." It certainly would appear to 
 be so in Mr. Lacey's pages, but it was not so in the Commis- 
 sion. All the time spent over this question by the Commission 
 was two hours in the session of April 21st, and less than one 
 hour in the session of April 25th. From the first, I think I 
 may say, we had looked on even this brief discussion as 
 needless, and at the moment as possessing a mere academic 
 interest. 
 
 f Mr. Lacey {Ibid., p, 50) says of this meeting of the 
 Commission (Saturday, April 25th) : " In the sitting of the 
 Commission on Saturday, N. challenged A.'s statement about 
 the Barlow documents. B. intervened, declaring that he had 
 seen the documents. 'You say so?' said N. 'Yes.' 'I 
 believe you,' said N., with a little emphasis.'" In a note, 
 Mr. Lacey writes : "This petulance was quite unjustified, as 
 the sequel shows. The documents were found, as noted 
 below, and there was no cause for any reticence about them. 
 I should like to expunge the story, as well as the names, but it 
 would not be fair to suppress evidence of our own suspicious 
 temper." This incident is grossly exaggerated. There was a 
 slight difference of opinion on a matter of evidence, and some 
 doubts were expressed by the Abbe Duchesne as to the 
 existence of certain documents, but most certainly not in the 
 
Leaves from my Diary 59 
 
 On the way home we asked ourselves, 
 Was it possible that what we had so far heard 
 was all that had to be said ? Have these 
 Frenchmen, acting on behalf of the Anglicans, 
 nothing more to say than has been so far 
 brought up and discussed at our eight meet- 
 ings ? Up to this point we have expected 
 that something new would probably be sprung 
 upon us that would throw some light upon 
 the reasons which made them press forward 
 this question and drag us most unwillingly 
 into a controversy which can do no good and 
 may possibly do much harm. The tactics of 
 the French promoters are obvious. They 
 are determined to work for a mere change in 
 the practice of the Church, and secure that 
 the Orders shall be regarded as doubtful, 
 and re-ordination shall henceforth be sub 
 conditione. 
 
 Mr. Lacey told our mutual friend that they 
 (himself and Father Puller) had come out 
 believing that the most they could expect 
 from the Roman authorities was that they 
 would be spared any decision contra, and 
 that the present practice would go on ; but 
 
 rude and impertinent way represented by Mr. Lacey. It is 
 inconceivable that the Abbe Duchesne could have told him the 
 story without adding- that, as a gentleman, he immediately 
 apologised for even seeming to doubt what had been said. 
 
60 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 that now they had full confidence that the 
 practice would be changed, and the Orders 
 would thus be acknowledged as merely 
 doubtful. 
 
 A letter received from Cardinal Vaughan 
 asks whether we can give him any informa- 
 tion about the Commission. He hears a 
 good deal of gossip from Anglican sources ; 
 but he and the English Bishops are quite in 
 the dark about what is going on. 
 
 Sunday^ April 26th, — We have heard 
 again to-day how all the proceedings of our 
 Commission are being discussed between the 
 French party and the Anglican representa- 
 tives in Rome. Mr. Lacey told our friend 
 yesterday that although the proceedings of 
 the Commission were private, their friends 
 had asked and obtained permission to show 
 them all documents and to talk over the 
 discussions with them. I hope this is so, 
 but like the Scotchman, " I've me doots," 
 and should like to find out, if only to get the 
 same permission to let our friends know 
 something. 
 
 In the afternoon we heard that all prepara- 
 tions had already been made for the matter 
 to be taken up by the Holy Office at the 
 point we leave it. An official of the Holy 
 
Leaves from my Diary 61 
 
 Office has already been named by the Pope 
 to study all the papers and documents, in- 
 cluding the minutes of our discussions, and 
 to draw up a precis of the case. His name 
 has not transpired ; but we hear that he is 
 already at work on the documents that have 
 been so far placed in his hands. 
 
 Monday, April zjth — I have asked at 
 the Vatican, and have been informed on the 
 highest authority that no permission has been 
 asked and no leave granted to break the 
 Sec re turn Pontificium. 
 
 Wednesday, April 29th. — This morning 
 we held our ninth session. The discussion 
 as to the Form was continued, Father David 
 leading off as arranged. 
 
 Saturday, May 2nd. — Our tenth session. 
 The morning was spent on the discussion of 
 the Anglican Ordinal, considered formaliter. 
 We understand that at the end of our meet- 
 ings the Pope is going to require the return 
 of all papers and documents which have 
 been communicated to us, and will issue 
 another precept of absolute secrecy about 
 any information, etc., obtained in the sessions 
 of the Commission. 
 
 In the Guardian newspaper, which came 
 to hand to-day, there is a paragraph saying 
 
 4 
 
62 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 that information about the opinions of mem- 
 bers of the Commission had become public 
 property, and expressing a pleased surprise 
 that Padre de Augustinis held that Anglican 
 Orders were valid, both on historical and 
 theological grounds. 
 
 Tuesday, May $th. — To-day we have had 
 our eleventh session. In the last (10th) ses- 
 sion Cardinal Mazzella had proposed certain 
 quaesita to be answered in writing. After the 
 responsa to these had been read, the Cardinal 
 made an address, summing up the discus- 
 sions we had been engaged upon. He con- 
 cluded by saying that the opinions we had 
 been asked for by the Holy Father had been 
 sufficiently made known and debated, and 
 that he would only request us to meet once 
 more on Thursday, to pass the acta. 
 
 Thursday, May jth. — This morning we 
 had our twelfth and last session. The acta 
 were read, and so ended the meetings of the 
 Anglican Orders Commission. Before the 
 close the Secretary read a mandate sub 
 praecepto obedientiae for all to keep silence on 
 whatever had been learnt in the course of our 
 private sessions. # 
 
 * Mr. Lacey, in recording - the admonition says: "All 
 the members have their mouths shut, and are forbidden ever 
 again to write or publish anything on the subject of Anglican 
 
Leaves from my Diary 63 
 
 In the afternoon we saw Father Brandi, 
 who had already heard that the Commission 
 was dissolved. He said that Duchesne had 
 told someone that he was entirely satisfied 
 with the meetings and that "if the Arch- 
 bishop of Canterbury only knew how he had 
 done battle for him, he ought to give him a 
 gold medal." 
 
 Sunday, £May \oth. — We hear to-day that 
 the Abbe Duchesne has been urging that 
 advantage be taken of the presence of Mr. 
 Lacey and Father Puller in Rome to initiate 
 some conferences in which they would be 
 represented. 
 
 Tuesday, May 1 2th. — To-day I paid visits 
 to two Cardinals. In the morning Cardinal 
 Aloisi-Masella expressed himselfverystrongly 
 on the way the French friends of the Angli- 
 cans had been allowed to force the question 
 of Anglican Orders to an examination. They 
 had represented to the Pope that the case 
 had never before been properly looked into, 
 and that new facts had been discovered, on 
 which the Orders could be proved to be at 
 worst doubtful. From the first, he said, he 
 
 Orders. This must be annoying for Moyes." Needless to say 
 that this version of the admonition is an entire misapprehen- 
 sion. The prohibition extended only to the proceedings of 
 the Commission, but in no way forbade the writing or pub- 
 lishing of anything on the subject of Anglican Orders. 
 
64 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 had seen that the French were working to 
 secure a change in the practice of re-ordina- 
 tion. 
 
 In the evening Cardinal Ledochowski ex- 
 pressed much the same views. He considered 
 that great harm had already been done by 
 the light way in which the existing practice 
 of the Church in so grave a matter had been 
 impugned, and entirely without adequate 
 reason. He deplored the fact that the ques- 
 tion had ever been raised. He told us that a 
 Catholic layman had written a memorandum 
 on the business, and had sent it to him. He 
 considered it as uri impertinenza for a layman 
 to try and dictate the course of events in such 
 a matter. 
 
 Wednesday^ May 2.0th. — From the Church 
 Times, to hand to-day, it appears that Father 
 Puller has laid his views about Baptism and 
 Confirmation before the Abbe Duchesne, 
 who had, at least according to Fr. P., 
 declared that M they were certainly according 
 to Scripture and the early Fathers, and, he 
 believed, according to the teaching of the 
 Roman schools of to-day." The views of 
 Fr. Puller are well known, as they appeared 
 ten years ago in a pamphlet. Roughly 
 speaking, he holds that the Holy Ghost is 
 
Leaves from my Diary 65 
 
 not received in Baptism, but only in Con- 
 firmation. 
 
 Friday, May, 22nd. — After the " Ave 
 Maria" Canon Moyes and Father David went 
 to call on Cardinal Parocchi at the Vicariate. 
 They were kept a long time waiting and at 
 the same time Mr. Lacey and Father Puller 
 were awaiting their turn for an audience It 
 is reported that Mr. L. has been expressing 
 himself entirely satisfied. At his pension he 
 said that he had been informed on the highest 
 authority than an adverse decision is now 
 quite out of the question. From Monte Cas- 
 sino, where he and Father Puller have been 
 staying, it is reported that they expressed 
 themselves " quite hopeful of the happy 
 issue " in their sense. * 
 
 Wednesday, May 2jth. — Father David 
 left for home this morning. A lay friend 
 who had been at Monte Cassino during the 
 visit of Messrs. Lacey and Puller gave us 
 to-day some impressions. He had seen a 
 good deal of them, and they openly talked of 
 their mission to Rome. Father Puller said 
 he had been sent by the Archbishop of York, 
 who had blessed him and his mission, and 
 
 * This appears frequently in the pages of Mr. Lacey's 
 Diary. 
 
66 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 that the Bishop of Salisbury had done the 
 same for Mr. Lacey. One of the Fathers 
 asked them if they were quite satisfied that 
 their case had been fully laid before the 
 Commission ; they replied that they were 
 completely satisfied, and even more than 
 satisfied, with the way they had been repre- 
 sented. They made no secret at all of the 
 fact that all the private documents had been 
 shown them and of the way the proceedings 
 of our meetings had been told them. Our 
 friend evidently thought this had been done 
 by authority, and was astonished to hear that 
 this was not so, and that we had been unable 
 to let even Cardinal Vaughan and the 
 English Catholic Bishops have any infor- 
 mation about the Commission. 
 
 Another friend then at Monte Cassino 
 told these two Anglican clergyman that he 
 could not understand what possible good 
 any recognition of their Orders by the Pope 
 would do them. Mr. Lacey replied that it 
 was at present very necessary, and he 
 instanced what had happened at a "re-union " 
 meeting in the north of England some time 
 last year. He said that no sooner had he 
 risen to speak than some one at the back of 
 the hall shouted out : " Does the Pope of 
 
Leaves from my Diary 67 
 
 Rome recognise you as a priest ?" He said 
 that he was unable to answer that question ; 
 and the meeting was so determined that this 
 was a vital question, that it practically- 
 refused to allow the proceedings to go on. 
 
 They also told one of the Fathers at 
 Monte Cassino that they had been asked by 
 the highest authority to remain on in Rome 
 for a few weeks longer in order that they 
 might be at hand if wanted. * They said 
 nothing could exceed the kindness shown to 
 them in Rome by all, and they were quite 
 satisfied that the Pope would go as far as 
 possible to meet their wishes. 
 
 Monday ', June 1st. — We received from 
 Cardinal Mazzella two publications of Mr. 
 Lacey, which he was circulating among the 
 Roman Cardinals. One is called Supple- 
 ment m De Hierarchia Anglicana, and the 
 other is a brochure named De Re Anglicana.^ 
 This last gives, in my opinion, a very twisted 
 account of the Reformation history and even 
 
 • Mr. Lacey {A Roman Diary, p. 62), writes on May 8th, 
 M Duchesne saw Cardinal Rampolla, who expressed a wish 
 that we should stay in Rome for the present, and hold ourselves 
 in readiness to give information to the Commission of Cardinals 
 which is now appointed." 
 
 t Of this Mr. Lacey says (Ibid., p. 66), "Portal at once 
 (May 15th), charged me with a new pamphlet— suggested by 
 the ignorance of Cardinal Vannutelli — a brief outline of the 
 present state of the Church of England, with a clear explana- 
 tion of parties. This is to be finished before Monday." 
 
68 Leaves from my Diary- 
 more of the Status actualis. At the end is 
 an appendix giving a tabular statement of 
 the English Church, communitates clericorum 
 et co?nmunitates Religiosarum votis adstric- 
 tarum, etc. It is very ingenious and is 
 bound to give a wholly false impression to 
 those who do not know the actual state of 
 England and the profoundly Protestant 
 feeling of the majority of the members of the 
 Established Church. We are instructed to 
 write our remarks upon this pamphlet, De Re 
 Anglicana, at once. 
 
 In the afternoon a friend told us that Mr. 
 Lacey had informed him that he had distri- 
 buted these works among the Cardinals. 
 All of them, he said, had received them 
 most cordially, and that there was only one, 
 Cardinal Parocchi, who, though most cour- 
 teous and kind, was decidedly hostile lo 
 them. They said that their instructions 
 were to wait and see the whole matter out, 
 and so they were going to stop on in Rome 
 for the final decision. 
 
 Wednesday, June yd. — The English 
 papers to-hand to-day contain a letter from 
 Mr. Gladstone on the Anglican Orders ques- 
 tion. It has caused a good deal of talk, and 
 the general verdict, I think, is that, as usual, 
 
Leaves from my Diary 69 
 
 Mr. Gladstone has contrived to say little or 
 nothing in a very long letter. The object 
 of the letter, however, is obvious, and Mr. 
 Gladstone must have been pressed to write 
 it by those who do not desire any decision, if 
 it be unfavourable to their views, for it is 
 meant clearly to deprecate any decision 
 whatever, unless it be in favour of the 
 Validity.* The Times article (Monday, 
 June 1 st) is good. 
 
 It is announced in certain of the Paris 
 papers, and also in the Vera Roma, that 
 Duchesne has been appointed a Consultor of 
 the Holy Office. This is not very likely to 
 be true. 
 
 Friday^ "June $th. — The Holy Father to- 
 day said that he desired that the case should 
 proceed without unnecessary delay. He had 
 heard that some people considered that it 
 
 * Some light on the origin of Mr. Gladstone's letter appears 
 in Mr. Lacey's Diary, pp. 52-3: " If. Portal came with an 
 important letter from Lord Halifax about Mr. Gladstone. 
 Mr. Gladstone is quite willing under certain conditions — e.g., 
 if asked to do so — to write a letter either to the Pope or to 
 anyone else, for publication at an opportune moment. A draft 
 of a letter to the Pope, on which Lord Halifax and Mr. Glad- 
 stone were agreed (N.B. This, my impression at the time, was 
 incorrect), was enclosed. We talked this over. M. Portal 
 thought he must see Cardinal Rampolla." He did so, and, 
 though the Cardinal was "keenly interested," he told him that 
 Mr. Gladstone must not write a letter to the Pope intended for 
 publication, but it would have a good effect if he would write 
 such a letter to someone else— Lord Halifax, for example. 
 
70 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 was the function of our Commission, now at 
 an end, to judge the case, and he desired 
 that it should be known that all we had to 
 do was to prepare the way for the judicial 
 examination which is to come now. After 
 this, the whole matter will be buried in the 
 minds of the Cardinals of the Holy Office, 
 and nothing more can be heard of it till the 
 conclusion. The Revue Anglo -Romaine an- 
 nounced last week that it remained to be 
 seen what action would be taken on this 
 matter, and that the Pope had not yet 
 decided whether to proceed by a process of 
 the Holy Office or to appoint a Special 
 Commission of Cardinals. According to our 
 information, this has been decided a long time 
 ago in favour of a process of the Holy Office. 
 
 Tuesday, June qt/i. — We understand that, 
 whatever be the decision, it will be given in 
 what is known in the Holy Office as the 
 Feria V a session. At this the Pope presides 
 in person at a meeting of all the Cardinals of 
 the Holy Office. The procedure is so rare 
 that it has not been used since the days of 
 Pope Benedict XIV, and even the method 
 of holding it is doubtful. It is considered to 
 be the most important judicial court in the 
 Church, and the most solemn act of the Pope. 
 
Leaves from my Diary 71 
 
 The decision in the case of Bishop Gordon in 
 1 704 was also the result of a Feria V a session 
 of the Holy Office. 
 
 Wednesday^ "June 1 oth. — The Church 
 Times article on Gladstone's letter has given 
 rise to much talk here. The Anglican party- 
 are asking people to believe that England 
 has never formally been shut off from the 
 Holy See, but misunderstandings had come 
 up and they had drifted apart. 
 
 Sunday \ June 14///. — Gossip still is the 
 order of the day. An article in the Roman 
 Post, understood to be by Croke, corre- 
 spondent of the Tablet, evidently supports 
 the sub condition* result. In conversation 
 with one of the priests of San Silvestro this 
 morning, he said that he was informed that 
 the final decision had been left to the Car- 
 dinal Secretary of State, Cardinal Rampolla, 
 and that consequently there would be no 
 consideration given to it from any but a 
 diplomatic point of view. He said that it 
 was well known in Roman ecclesiastical 
 circles that we (Moyes, David and I) had been 
 on the wrong tack altogether, and had failed 
 to convince people of the justice of the 
 present practice. 
 
 Monday^ 'June 15///. — Croke has been 
 
72 Leaves from my Diary 
 
 here again to-day, talking in the same sense 
 as above. The decision is certain to be at 
 the very least a sub conditione one, if not for 
 validity of Orders. " The Pope," he said, 
 "would as soon think of rescinding the 
 Vatican decree of Papal Infallibility as of 
 condemning the Anglican Orders absolutely." 
 
 Tuesday, June \6th. — To-day we hear 
 that the Abbe Portal, Father Puller and Mr. 
 Lacey have left Rome. The Revue Anglo- 
 Romaine, in announcing their departure, says 
 that " Portal, with two English priests en- 
 gaged upon the Commission, had the plea- 
 sure of being present at the Pope's Mass." 
 
 Thursday, June i %th. — Canon Moyes and 
 I had a farewell audience with the Pope, who 
 thanked us for having come out to assist in 
 the Commission, and gave us His blessing. 
 
 Saturday, June, 20th. — We had a round 
 of visits to-day to various Cardinals, etc., to 
 whom we presented copies of the Risposta 
 we had been asked to make to the pamphlet 
 De Re Anglicana of Mr. Lacey. 
 
 Monday, June 22nd. — Canon Moyes and 
 I leave Rome to-morrow morning, and thus 
 ends our connection with the question of 
 Anglican Orders. 
 
POSTSCRIPT. 
 
 Memorandum. 
 
 July 17///, 1896. — I heard to-day that 
 Cardinal Vaughan had received a letter from 
 Cardinal Perraud to the effect that the Pope 
 had expressed himself very strongly on the 
 attitude taken up by the Abbe Portal in the 
 Revue Anglo- Romaine, the explaining away 
 the Encyclical on the Church, etc. The 
 Holy Father had directed Cardinal Perraud 
 to write to the Archbishop of Paris to the 
 effect that the whole attitude of the Revue 
 must at once cease, or it would have to be 
 put an end to. 
 
 The Abbe Portal has been this week at a 
 meeting of the English Church Union at 
 Sion College (I think). It was not a public 
 meeting, but circulars were sent inviting 
 various people. One lady who was present 
 described Portal's address to me. He began 
 by saying that he would open his heart to 
 those who thought with him. He said there 
 was nothing in the Encyclical on M the 
 Church " which need suggest any fear for 
 44 re-union " which did not necessarily mean 
 
74 Postscript 
 
 " submission." The great obstacle to re-union 
 was the bitterness and unreasonableness of 
 Roman Catholics in England. He told them 
 that although they were not under one and 
 the same head they might yet have full 
 confidence that they possessed the entire 
 sacramental system and were true Catholics. 
 The great obstacle to re-union was Cardinal 
 Vaughan. 
 
 Mr. Lacey also spoke. He saw nothing 
 in the Encyclical that might lead them to 
 anticipate any adverse decision about their 
 Orders. In fact, he was quite confident that 
 the ultimate decision would be in favour of 
 the Orders, and even were it not so, there 
 would be no decision which any successor of 
 Leo XIII might not reverse. 
 
 Both Lord Halifax and Mr. Lacey ex- 
 plained away the Encyclical in the sense of 
 the article in the Church Times last week, 
 viz., that the Unity of the Church did not 
 mean perfect Union. Just as a family is one 
 as a family, though its members might be 
 very disunited. 
 
 To-day a letter from a priest at Brighton 
 tells me that he is convinced of the perfect 
 fairness and honesty of Cardinal Vaughan, 
 since he has had a letter from Fr. Scannell 
 
Postscript 75 
 
 to the effect that not only had the Cardinal 
 asked him to go out and represent his views, 
 but had given him .£50 to pay his expenses. 
 
 zAugust 6th — The following is an extract 
 from a letter written from Llandrindod by 
 Cardinal Vaughan : " M. Portal two years 
 ago said in the Times that I had no theo- 
 logical knowledge, and that my view of the 
 invalidity of Anglican Orders would not be 
 sustained in Rome. He has been going on 
 the same way since. The question has been 
 taken out of my hands and those of the 
 Hierarchy, and it is at present in those of 
 the Pope. We are at present dogs that may 
 not bark, and are in absolute ignorance of 
 what is taking place." 
 
 Thursday^ September 10th. — To-day I 
 have heard the facts about the Feria V* 
 session of the Holy Office in which the 
 question of the Anglican Orders was con- 
 sidered. The meeting was held on July 16th 
 and the Cardinals were all present, with the 
 exception of Cardinal Rampolla. Even 
 Cardinal Mertel, who had to be carried to 
 the assembly, was there. The Pope presided, 
 and after discussion all the Cardinals were 
 unanimous in their verdict. At the end the 
 Holy Father reserved the decision to himself. 
 
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