Kwfc^aE *.*«■ v.» 1 — / THE SUBSTANCE OF THE SPEECH OF THE Right Hon. HENRY DUNDAS, IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, June i6 3 1795, ©N OPENING THE EAST INDIA BUDGET. LONDON: Printed for J, Debrett, oppofite Burlington Hwfe^ Piccadilly, *795« H3 THE SUBSTANCE OF A SPEECH, &c, HOUSE of COMMONS, Tuesday, June 16, 1795. THE order of the day being read for the Houfe to refolve itfelf into a committee of the whole Houfe, to coniider of the papers relative to the affairs of India, the Houfe accordingly refolved it- n^lclf into the faid committee, Mr. Joddrel in the chair, Mr. Secretary Dundas rofe and faid, that al- though the accounts, on which the attention of the Houfe was that night to be engaged, were pretty numerous, and of a nature at once impor- A % tant • ( 4 ) tant and exteniive, he hoped to be able to ex- plain them fully, without trcipaffing very long on the indulgence of the Houfe, for the matters con* tained in them, though various, were entirely free, from perplexity. Gentlemen hud already, he fnp- pofed, infpected the fevcral articles contained in the accounts, it would, therefore, be unnccefiary for him to trouble them with preliminary matter; he would, therefore, without farther preface, pro- ceed to that explanation which the nature of his duty demanded from him, firft, of each particular part, and finally, of the whole taken together. The fhfr. branch of this explanation was to be directed to the fituation of the revenues in India,, with the deduction of the various charges as the foundation of the capital of the Company for car- rying on their trade: and the next, to the fituation of the Company at home, as arifing out of, and connected with, thofe revenues. From both thofe he was to draw a general refult, and fhew to the Houie how tar the circumftances of the Company were belter or worfe than when he had laft the honour of laying the affairs of India before them. Jn doing this, Bengal naturally presented itfelf firft; and here he would remark, that the accounts had been m ide up widi fueh a degree of accuracy, that he fhould nor have occafion to enter into a minute detail of the articles which competed them, unlets fome perfon fhould call upon him to folve fome doubts reflecting them. The Houfe would recollect, that in forming his eftimates of the probable produce of the revenues, charges, he. of the Company, he had always adopted the mode of flating an average of the laft three years and alio the eftimate and actual accounts for the laft year, and the eftimate for the future. According to this mode, the accounts were i made ( 5 ) made tip, turning the country currency into pounds iterling; agreeable to its respective valuation at the different fettlements. Bengal, Current Rupees at 2*. Revenues. £. No. I. Average Revenues of 3 years, 1791-2 to 1793-4 - 5^25,317 No. II. Eftimated amount of Revenues for 1793-4, - 5.432,768 The actual amount in that year - - 5,871,946 Revenues more than eftimated 439,178 ■■ " Charges. No. III. The Charges for 1793-4 were eftimated at - - 3,238,346 Aclual amount - 3>33 l >97& Charges more than eftimated 93,632 Actual account better than eftimate 345,546 V The aclual nett Revenue for 1793-4 was 2,539,968 Estimates, 1794-5. No. I. Revenues are eftimated to amount to - - 5,580,606 Nc. II. And Charges to - 3,278,634 Eftimated Nett Revenues 2,301,972 The ( 6 ) The excefs of the revenue above the eflimatd arofe, firft, out of the land revenue, partly from the paying up of arrears, and partly from an annual increafe; fecondly, from an incrcafe of the revenue upon fait, above the eftimatc, a clear proof, as it did not appear that the price was raifed, that the consumption, and confequently the population of the country, were increafed. The excefs of the charges above the eftimatc arofe from an additional donation to the army, amounting to 46,729!. more than the fum fettled by the Marquis Cornwallis, and an increafe of charges upon fait and opium to the amount of 77,156b — Dedu6ting the excefs of charges from the excefs of revenue, the actual account was better than the eflimate by 345,546b He faw no reafon to think that the revenue for 1794-5 would be lefs productive than for the year preceding ; but it had always been his wifh to take the eflimate fo low as to leave no chance of the actual amount falling fhort of it. Such were the directions which had Ion"; fince been given to the Company's fervants in India; and upon this prin- ciple it was, not upon any ground of diftrufr, that the eilimate was taken lower than the actual pro- ^ duce of 1793-4. In the account No. II. the Com- mittee would fee an article for the charges of the Dewanny and Nizamut, City and Zilla Adawluts, of the Police eftablimments, and Courts of Appeal* Thefe charges appeared for the hrft time in the ac- counts, becaule, as it had been thought proper for the protection and convenience of the natives, to feparate the provincial jurifdictions from the col- lection of the revenue, it had alfo been thought proper to feparate the charges 3 and the change took place in 1 793* Madras, ( 7 ) Madras. — Pagoda at 8s. 2Mb. VI. The Revenues r or 1793-4 £. were eftimated at - 2,232,077 Actual amount - 2,110,089 Lefs than Eltimate 121,988 The Charges were eiti mated at - - 1,701,298 And amounted to 1 ,999,376 More than eftimated 298,078 Actual \ccount worfe than the eltimate - 420,066 V Estimates, 1794-^. No. IV. The Revenues are eflimated to amount to - 1,855,^17 No. V. And the Charges to - 1,782,247 Eftimated Nett Revenue 73 ,0 70 He could not give an average of three years from Madras, for feveral reaibns. During the war the Rajah of Travancore paid a fubfidy to this Pre- sidency ; a new arrangement had been made with the Nabob of Arcot and Rajah of Tanjore, which required time to be carried into effect, as did alfo the regulations for fettling and collecting the reve- nues of the countries ceded by Tippoo. The caufes of the deficiency in the actual amount of the revenue were, that the Nabob of Arcot had paid the year before a lack of rupees before it was due, and had not made a fimilar advance in pay- ment ( 8 ) ment the next. — Tn the treaty with the Nabob, the Company agreed to take, as part of his fubiidy, the tribute payable to him by the Southern Polygars, be- caufe, he calling lor the tribute as his neceflities urged him, and they refilling to pay, the Company, as holding the iword, were frequently called upon to interfere, and therefore it was thought more advis- able to take the eolle£tion of the tribute at once into their own hands : this tribute \v?s not yet regularly paid, although there wis no doubt that it would, when the Polygars found by experience, that they were only to be called upon regularly, not accords ing to our neceflities, but according to our efta- blifhed rights ; the Northern Circars had alfo fuf- iered by famine a few yars ago, from which they were not yet recovered, and fome disturbances had alfo taken place in fome of them : — thefe different circumftances occaiioned a defalcation of revenue. The excels of charges was accounted for by an additional donation to the army ferving in the war againft Myfore, amounting to 146,550b and the expenfes attending the capture of Pondicherry, 173,042b thefe two articles were more than the ex- cels above the eftimate, the charges having been lef> in fome other articles. By the eftimate for 1794-5, the revenue exceeded the eharges by 73,070b He was far from faying, that Madras did not hold out a more flattering prof- peer ; but even this was iurncicnt to juftify all the calculations he had ever offered to the. Houfe re- fpedting it, which never went farther than to fay, that it would be able to pay its own current ex- penfes. He now hoped that it would foon be able to do much more. Bom- ( 9 ) Bombay — Rupees at 2s. 3d. £• No. XI. The Revenues for 1793-4, were eftimated at 277,898 And amounted to - - 312,364 More than eftimated - 34,466 The Charges were eftimated at 696,139 And amounted to - - 783,791 More than eftimated - 87,652, Actual Account therefore worfe than the Eit imate - 53,186 y' No. VII. The Revenues in 1794-5, are eftimated at 354,883 >7o. VIII. And the Charges at - - IShSS 1 Eftimated Charges more than the Revenues - - - - 402,668 From Bombay an average of three years could not be obtained, becaufe great part of the revenue arofe from territory ceded by Tippoo Sultan at the clofe of the late war. The excefs of charges arofe from the increafe of marine eftablifhmcnt occafioned v ' by the war ; from a donation to the army, and. from the expenfes occafioned in the paft year by the necefTity of employing natives in addition to the Company's fervants, for afcertainmg and collect- ing the revenues of the ceded countries. This \ in the firit inftance was a meafure of policy, as well as of neceffity ; the benefits of which would remain when the expenfe had ecafed. ' B Ben* ( io ) Bencoolen and Islands. £■ Revenue on an average of 3 years, at Fort Marlboro' - - 4,840 Supplies from Bengal to ditto, Pinang, St. Helena, &c. eilimated for 179^.-4 77,000 No. XVIII. A&unl amount 66,358 Nq. XL Eftimated to Lc ibpplied in 1794-5 - 104,635 The eftimate of iupplies to thefe fettkments in 1 79.1.-5, was confiderably above both the eltimatcd, and the actual amount for the year before, for which he could affign no reafon, as it had been iranfmirted to him without any explanation. General State op Revenues and Charges in India. Total of the Revenues of Bengal, £. Madras, and Bombay, 1793-4, as above ftattd - 8,294,399 Charges of ditto, (including 66,358!. iupplies to Eencoolen, &c.) - 6,181,504 Revenues more than charges - 2,112,895 Intereit on debt j paid from this fum 458,043 >/ Surplus Revenues - - 1,654,852 Add—Import, Sales, and Certificates - 475,994 Amount applicable to the provision of investments, payment of commercial charges, he. (exclufive of 2o,oool. gciincd by iffuing notes) - 2,130,846 v/ By ( " ) By No. XVIII. applied £. £, at Bengal, in the year 1,402,038 By No. XIX. applied at Madras, in the year 404,648 By No. XX. applied at Bombav, in the year 328,348 By No. XXII. fhipped from Bcncoolen in the year - - 12,618 : 2,147,652 Amount applicable to inVeftments, &c. as above tiated - - 2,130,846 In the eftimate made in February) 1 793, the fum Hated was - - i >5 i 3j577 More in 1793-4 than in that eftimate 617,269 By the above account it appeared that more had been applied to the Inveftments, &c. than the Sur- plus Revenues and the amount of Sales and Certi- ficates. This was accounted for by the Profit and Lois Account upon internal trade, and the profit upon the ifiuing of promiflbry notes. It might be laid that he had rated the Surplus too high, iince it was fwelled by the payment of 401,8261. from Tippoo Sultan. This he admitted was an extraordinary article of income; but on the other tide of the account were included extraordi- nary articles of expenditure, as the additional dona- tions to the army, and expenfes occafioned by the preient war, to the amount of 500,000!. B 2 Estimates ( 14 ) Estimates for 1794-5. £■ Total Revenues of Bengal, Madras, and Bombay, eftimated 1794-5 7>79 ^ 7 Total Charges, ditto, (including 104,6321. fupplies to Beneoolen, &c.) - 5->9' 1 3,o63 1,867,744 Deduct Intereft on Debts, per N. XVI. 437,047 Eftimated Surplus Revenue 1,430,697 Add — No. XV. Eftimated Sales of Imports, and amount of Certificates 380,669 Amount eftimated to be applicable to Iuveftments, Payment of Commercial Charges, &c. &c. - - 1,811,366 In thefe Eltimates every article of income except the Police Tax, was taken under the actual produce for laft year, to an amount altogether of near 300,0001. fo that there was no ground to fear a de- falcation ; — thefe eltimates however, he obferved, coniiderably exceeded thofe on which his calcula-* tions were founded in ? 793. Debts in India — Current Rupees at 2s. £■ Amount owing by the Company ftated to the Houfe laft year - - 7,857,405 Amount by the lateit advices (No. XVI.) 7.305,462 Dccrcafe - 551.943 Debt ( 13 ) Debt transferred in the C. Rs. £* year (No. XVII.) - 98,59,035 Of which allowed in the accounts of laft year by No. XVI. of that date - 31,36,646 Remains C. Rs. 67,22,389 672,239 \J Debts bearing intereft laft yearamount- ed to - - 6,322,328 Amount bearing intereft at prefent, per No. XVI. , . - 5,597,299 Decreafe of Debt bearing Intereft 725,029 / Amount of Intereft payable by laft year's accounts - - 517,825 Amount of Intereft payable by No. XVI. - - - 437>°47 11 ! ■ 1 < Lefs to be paid for Intereft on the Debts per ann. - 80,778 Although the total reduction of debt was only 551,943b the reduction of debt bearing intereft was 725,029b It was for the advantage of the Company to reduce the debt bearing intereft as much as poflible, although the amount of debt not- bearing intereft fhould be increafed as much as pof- iible without injuring their credit. &SS2T5 /. ( H ) Assets in India. — C. Rs. at 2S. Caih, Goods, Debts, &c. at the feveral fettlements, ftated in lalt year's ac- count at - 8,733,796 Per No. XXI. of the prefent flatcments 8,807,600 Incrcafe - 73,804 Adding this to the decreafe of debts, the Company's affairs appear better in thei'e rcfpedls by 625,74? Home Accounts. Mr. Dundas obfcrved, that in 1793 he had ftated the average of the three largeft annual fales of the Eaft India Company's goods, viz. from 1790 to 1793, the amount of which was 5,103,094 In the lalt year the fales had exceeded the largeft of thofe years fales, and amounted to 418,7641. more than that average, the total laic in 1794* having been - 5,521,858 The eitimatc for that year was 5,364,358 The actual amount, therefore, ex- ceeded the eftimate - 1 S1->S ° * Goods fold in private trade this year amounted to 1,053,462].- So that total India goods fold in the year was 6,575,32010 Amount ( *S ) £■ Amount received for goods fold in this year was, per No. XXIII. - 5,392,966 Being lefs than efKmated 55,892 Charges and profit on private trade, eftimated - - 70,000 Actual amount, per No. XXIII. 62,459 Lefs than eftimated - - 7^54 I In the eftimate of February, 1793, the amount of fales, profit on private trade, and intereft on annuities, after paying annuitants, was - - 5,094,527 Actual amount laft year - 5,620,544 More than in that eftimate - 526,017 Charges in that eftimate — Dividends at 3 per Cent. - 3,889,100 Paid laft year — Dividends at iof per Cent. - 4,467,787 Charges more than in that eftimate 578,687 The difference therefore is only - 52,670 But 416,996!. being paid for tea, and 933,0951. of India transferred Debt difcharged and 149,6501. of Bonds paid off, all formed the furplus. The amount eftimated to be received in the prefent year for goods fold is per No. XXIII. - 5,549,500 And profit on private trade - - 60,000 The charges are eftimated nearly equal to the receipts and cafh in hand, and no furplus expected adequate to the payment of India debt. India ( !«' ) India Debt paid off in £. £. the lait two years, viz. in 1 793 - 1,008,637 J 794 - - 933*095 ' i,94i 3 732 More by 9/ 1 ',732]. than directed by the act of 1793. In the pre'' nt year 490,647!. is eftimated to be difcharged. A more diftinct Anew of the Home- Accounts would appear from the following abate- ment : Debts at Home. The Debts, including the Debt tranf- ^ ferred from India, amounted *»* In March, 1794, to 7,006,500 In March, 1795, to 6,946,323 Lefs in March laft 60,177 Assets. £> AfTets at home and afloat ift of March lail, fratcd in No. XXIII. at - 10,413,354 Similar Articles valued lait year, at 9,888,836 More in March laft 524,518 Adding decrcafe of Debts to increafe of AfTets, the Company's affairs appear better at home by - - 5^4,695 China ■ ( »7 ) China and St. Helena. £ The Balance at China and St. Helena, was in laft year's Accounts, in favour of the Company - - i, 080,881 By the laft accounts flated in the fecond No. I. - - - 979,15s Balance lefs at prefent 101,723 General Result of the Comparison of the last and present Year's Accounts. Debts lefs, and AfTets more, in India 625,747 Do. Do. at Home 584,695 ^ ( 1,210,442 Balance lefs in China and St. Helena 101,723 1,108,719 Add for the Balance of Bills drawn and cargoes lliippcd from India, after cloiing the accounts there, compared with the laft year's Statements 3°3>53° The Company's Affairs better with refpect. to Debts and AfTets 1,412,249 This fum, taken from comparing the Stock per Computation No. I. with the Account No. XXIV. laid before the Houfe laft year — The Balance in favour per No. I. is 5,493,774 In laft year's Account the amount was 4,081,525 The Company's Affairs better in March, 1795 - - 1,412,249 The tales had produced more than the average of the three moft productive years ever known, and C were < '3 ) were greater than the largcfl of thofe years. Cta the whole of' the Company's receipts and payments for the laft year, the refult was, that the actual ac- count was better than the eftimate by 20,7,4051. the balance eftimated to remain in March laft, hav- ing been 230,926b and the actual amount being 434,331b betides which, it was eftimated that 20c,oool. would be borrowed on mortgage of the annuities, but in fact, only ico,oool.was borrowed although the balance was fo much larger. If fuch was the ilate of their affairs- at home, it might be aiked, why they had not been called upon to pay the 500,0001. due, or fuppofed to be due, to the public ? Without giving any opinion tipon the right to call for navment, he would anfwer, that it would have been imprudent. The debt to be tranf-. ferred annually from India was calculated in 1793, at 500,000b per annum, but before the inlt ructions reftricting it to thatfum could reach India, bills to a far greater amount had been fent over, of which. 933,095b fell due in the laft year. In the laft year alio' they had expended 41 6,996!, for thepurchafe of teas oil the continent. All the eftimates of freight, &c. tvere made upon a peace eftabiifhment, and now they mult be paid upon a war eftabiifhment. They were eftimated in 1793 at 690,670b and in the laft year upwards of 8oo,ocol. was paid ; yet this was not all that ought to have been paid, for three of the Com- pany's ihips were very wifely detained in India, and converted into cruizers for the protection of the coun- try trade. The arrear of freight, See. due upon thefe ihips, would fall to be paid this year, which, with the other charges of the fame defcription, is eftimated to amount to 1,606,640b A large mm was alio expected to become due in this year for bills of exchange, and on the whole, after paying the amount of India debt- iiatcd in the eftimate, there would be a deficiency in their ( *9 ) their cam account of 371,8381., on the firft of March 1796. Under fuch circumftances would it be adviie- able to prefs them for the 500,0001. to the public ? They were allowed to increafe their bonded debt from two millions to three, which they had not had oc- casion to do, and consequently had a credit of a million, if they fhould want it next year. Why not it would be alked, make ufe of this credit to pay the public? In cafe of exigency on the part of the public, they might have been called upon, as this credit was given them to pay the extra debt trans- ferred from India, and if they had fo applied it, there would have been a furplus in their treafury for the public; but in time of war it would be unwife to have the Company's treafury lets full in point of cafh, than they were even with this credit. Betides, they muft either have hTued the bonds at a difeount, or railed the intereft nearly as high as the intereft produced by their ftock, which would have brought upon them all their out-ftanding bonds bearing four per cent, intereft. Again, it might be aiked, why they did not rather apply their furplus revenue in India, to paying off their India Debt, rather than invert it in trade, upon which they had to pay 900,0001. additional freight ? In the bill for the /\ renewal of their Charter, the principle adopted throughout was to make London as much as poffible the emporium of all the trade from India. It was with this view, too, that he would allow Indian fhippin£ to tranfport goods to Europe, without which proviiions the whole private trade and private fortune of the Company's Servants would become a capital to the Danes and Swedes to carry on the India trade, and underfell us in foreign markets. There- fore, though in a commercial point, contracting their trade for the prefent, and applying the money C 2 tq ( 20 to the payment of their debts, might be attended with a laving to the Company, ftill he would main- tain it to be bad policy to do fo ; for if the trade was diminifhed, the fhipping mult of courfe be di- minifhed alio, which, as thole mips were of a kind applicable, only to that particular purpofe, would materially injure the capitals of men laid out in that trade ; befldes, it would, only for the lake of a temporary gain, encourage other nations to. take up /\ the trade, As author of the proportions in 1793, when the new charter was granted, he thought it incumbent on him to take care that the public mould know whether in the efiimates and calculations on which he grounded thofe proportions, he had taken an ex- aggerated view of the revenues of India, or of the appropriations of them ; it was for that reafon he had been lb very particular in making the foregoing ftatements to the Home, by which it appeared, that as in the revenues, fo in the fales at home, his eiti- matcs had been greatly exceeded, though the Com- pany laboured under great diladvantages by deten- tion of mips, and though the want of coaft goods obliged them to narrow their fales— had it not been for thofe diladvantages, the excels would have amounted, no doubt, to an enormous fum. He declared he did not know a tingle circum- fiance that could lead him to doubt the increaling prosperity of the affairs of Great Britain in India. In Bengal they had the molt clear proof of increaling population, in the increale of the fale of fait ; be- fidcs the land revenues were increafed and increal- ing : thole who, prefTed by the uncertain tenures under which they formerly held the lands, or were molt backward in payment, having (^encouraged as they arc now by permanent tenures) become net .only punclal in payment of the running rent, but diligent ( 21 ) diligent in payment of their arrears ; and when the) lee that they live under equal laws— that all are alike protected— that agriculture is receiving; en- couragement, the fubjects of that country could not fail to find a deep intcreit in the prolperity of this. , The fame might be fa id of Madras. Taking (he v the Southern Polygars from the Nabob, into our own hands, could not but have the happiefl effects; >N for they, feeing they were treated with juffice and gcntlenels, and dealt by with an equal hand- feeing that we made demands on them, not as fuited our neeeilities, but as was conformable to right, would punctually pay their rents, and alter the face of things in that part for the better. This, he laid, had already daily appeared.— Betides, a large part of Madras (the Northern Circars) was never brought to that perfection to which it was entitled. This was a fubjeel on which he could not now enter- perhaps when it came to be coniidered, the example of Bengal might be thought eligible to be followed. As there was no fuch receipt for increaflng popu- lation and prolperity as fecurity, Madras would perhaps incrcafe as rapidly as Bengal, when the lame fentiment of fecurity pervaded the opinions of the people. All innovations, even thole that are moft good, muft be wrought progreffively --Men mult be led, not drove, even to that which pro- motes their own benefit. With clue encouragement, and regulations founded on juiiicc and found prin- ciple, he had little doubt of an inveliment coming from Madras as well as Bengal. At all events, he faw no reafon to fear any defalcation of the revenues below the expenfes. The fame principle of rcafoning applied Hill ftronger to Bombay, the revenues of which arofe from the countries ceded by Tip] od Sultan— As yet they had turned out i20,oool. lets than the value at whichj < 22 ) *vliich they were handed over to Lord Cornwallis : by belter government, and repairing the ravages of war, trie}' will become better. If he looked to India, he faw no circumftance that did not lead to confidence in the increaiing proiperity of the country. The increafed confump- tion of fait in Bengal was a clear proof of increafed population. Since the benefits of a regular and fixed mode of collecting the revenues were felt, perfons were not only paying their alTcflmcnt punc- tually, but paying up their old arrears. "YY hen a iyftem of law and jufticc was eftablifhed, which afforded equal protection to the rich and to the poor ; when the tenure by which men held their property was rendered permanent inftead of preca- rious : when the natives began to feel that they had a deep inierefi in the Stability of the Britiih govern- ment, there was every reafon to believe that the wealth, population, and profperity of the country would keep progreffively and rapidly advancing. The fame hopes might be entertained of Madras. Taking the collection of the tribute which the Sou- thern Polygars were bound to pay into the hands of the company, was a wife meafure. They would foon learn that our demands were regulated by our rights, not by our neceflities, and the difficulties in obtaining payment would rcaie. The Northern Cir- cars were not fo much improved as they were capa- ble of being, or as they defer ved to he. The rirtt flcp towards improvement was to give Security with refpect to perfons and property, and this perhaps could not be effected to well as by gradually intro- ducing the fyftcm which had been introduced into Bengal. Then would the presidency of Madras not only pay its own cxpenles, but in the courfe of ten years furnifh a Surplus tor an inveftment, without drawing upon the treafury of Bengal. On this, how ■ ( 2 * ) however, he begged to be underilood as founding no efrimate ; he merely mentioned it as one of many reafons for being pcrfuaded there was no danger of defalcation. The fame might be laid of Bombay, where a large territory on the Malabar coait had been ceded to us byTippoo Sultan. The revenues, it was true, had fallen i2G,oocL ihort of the iiin> y at which they were given in by Tippoo ; but in the eourfe of three years they had been regularly in- creating, as might naturally be expected under a better government. Hitherto the increafe had been extraordinary — The firft year, the amount was three tacks, the next, eleven, and the third feventecn % a'nd there was no reafon to doubt that they would, have a vaft progrcfhve increafe. He did not fay this with a view of railing any too (anguine hopes, but to mew that the event was adequate to all he Lad foretold. While Inch were the Situation and profpects of the Company in India,, there was furely nothing dif- coura'ging in the hate of their affairs at home. In time of war, and when the markets of a great part of Europe were fhut again it them, their [tales were greater than they had ever been before. Could it be apprehended they would be lefs on the return of peace, when ail the markets of Europe would be open, and all the private trade from India brought . home in the Company's mips ? He was far from putting the India trade upon the footing of an ex- cluiive monopoly ; he mould have no objection to open the trade of India to every nation of the world that choie to trade thither on the produce of its own induftry, or its own wealth. We were ibvereigns in India as well as merchants, and it was our duty to act not merely in the narrow views of a commer- cial monopoly, but to advance the profperity of the people over whom we were fovereigns. But while A we: ( *4 ) we were guided by this liberal fpirit of policy, iv€ oujrht not at the fame time to allow other nation^ to trade to India on the capital of Britifh fubjectsj or on the revenues of India, while thofe revenues were our's. One circumftance he muft mention was, that in the courie of laft year, the Company had paid 6o,oool. as bounties to feamen. Having laid before the Houfe the amount of the Indian revenues and charges abroad, and the amounts of the files, private trade, and general receipts at home, Mr. Dundas offered fome expla- natory obfervations, of which the following is the fubflance. He remarked, that the eftimate upon which the arrangement of 1793 was founded had been greatly exceeded, by the actual produce of every year, fince that period; fo far, therefore, as this was applica- ble to Bengal, the fact had fully correfponded with the eftimate; for in that presidency, not only lccu- rity had been given to property, but a fixed mode of collecting the revenues had been tried. The benefit of a fixed afTellment, and a regular mode of collection, had produced a conviction, in the natives, of fceurity of their property; the circum- ftance which alone can render it valuable to them, or an object of their defire. The iyiicm of law, and the adminift ration of jufTice, which had been eftablifhed, had alio produced, in the rich and in the poor of the native?, a deep intereft in the lia- bility of the Britifh power in India, of which the increafed confumption of fait, in Bengal, might be held as a criterion of progreffive prosperity. An increafe of population, he added, always remits from an increafe of the means of fubliftence. Ke next Hated, that though the fame mcafurcs bad not been carried into effect, at Madras, the 2 mea- ( *5 ) meafurcs which have been taken, for that purpofe, promifed the like benefits, as foon as they could be fully carried into effect. The collecting of the tributes, from the Southern Polygars, not through the Nabob, but immediately by the Company, he trufted would foon afford us the means of convin- cing them that our demands were to be regulated by our rights, not by our neceiTitics. The difficulties, therefore, which formerly had obflrueted their regular payments, were now ra- pidly difappcaring. It was true, the revenues from the Northern Cir- cars had by no means been improved in the degree of which they were fufceptible; but he was per- fuaded that this important end could be obtained by no means fo effectually as by gradually introducing the fame, or a fimilar fyflem, (allowing for the dif- ferences of the fettlements) winch had been tried in Bengal. The effect would be to give fecurity to property, and to Proprietors, and, in all probabi- lity, to enable the Prefidency of Madras, not only to defray its own expenfes, but from its furplus to provide for its investment, without the aid of the Treafury of Bengal; a eircumftance, however, which he mentioned, not to be reafoned from as an eftimate, but as a ftrong prefumptive argument, that the affairs of the Company were in a itate of progreffi ve i m pro ve me n t . Mr. Dundas then obferved, that the lame rea- foning applied, to the Prefidency of Bombay, who had the adminiftration of the pofTeflions ceded to us by Tippoo Sultan, on the Malabar Coalt. No average of three years could be here reforted to ; and, befides, the revenues of the ceded countries were not, as yet, within i20,oool. of what they had been given out to be worth by Tippoo Sul- tan. ( ^6 ) It was, however, to be recollected that thefe pro* vinces had not long emerged from the calamities of war, and, of courfe, could not be fuppofed to yield the hill extent of their real revenues. In the courfe, however, of three years, the amount of thefe re- venues had progreflively inereafed. In the firil year the amount had been about four, in the fecond eleven, and the third was efiimated at feventeen lacks of rupees ; and, therefore, it might be infer- red, ihat if a lmiilar fyfiem with that of Bengal fhould be introduced in thefe valuable acquisitions, the effect would be an increaie of revenue. Having made thefe remarks on the probable prof- peels, from the foreign revenues of the Company, Mr. Dundas adverted to the increaie of iheir fales at home in the la it year, a period when the foreign markets of Europe were fhut againft them. — Upon this fubject, he therefore prefumed to think, that there was rcafon to hope, as foon as the return of peace fhould open thefe markets, that the amount of the fales would be proportionally greater. So far from wifhing to conlider the trade from India to reft upon the narrow balls of a monopoly, he had no objection to all the nations of the world trading to the Britifh pofleffions in the Earl, upon their own capitals.-?— Great Britain conhdered itfelf as Sove- reign of its Indian poffeflions, as well as a com- mercial country, and would be ready to promote, whatever tended to advance the profperity of its Indian fubject s. — At die lame time, it would pre- vent foreigners from trading on Britijh capitals, or deriving benefits from the revenues of the provinces, which it had entrufted to the A dmini fixation of the Kafi India Company. Upon thefe grounds Mr. Dundas confidered the affairs of the Eat! -India Company, as likely to continue in a progreilive ftate of prosperity. After ( *7 ) After ftating thefe cifcumfla rices and referring to the prefent furplus of the Company, as fpecified in the refults of the accounts before the Houfe, he ad- verted to the contingencies which muft abridge that furplus in fubfequent years. It mull in a coniiderable degree be lefs from the proviiion which would be required, in order to do iuftice to the claims of their meritorious armies. Before our acquifition of territories, the Com- pany's forces in India confiiicd only of the requiflte guards for their factories or feats of trade ; they had now, not only a greater military force to keep in con- ilant pay than w as required on ordinary occasions for Britain and its other dependencies, but an efta- blifhment equal to many of the military powers in Europe ; it was, indeed, without lueh an army, as impoiiible to protect, the provinces, and the large commercial concerns of the Company, as to make that army efficient, without regulations in every degree applicable to the duties required from it. There were certain general grounds upon which it would be requifite to reft the arrangements for the Company's forces in India. In the firli place, the Company at prefent gave no higher rank to their oldeft officers than that of Colonel, a circumitance which deprived their mo ft experienced and meritorious officers of that promo- tion, to which military men look forward as their belt and molt honourable reward, and therefore, he would propote, " That a certain proportion of Ge- '• neral and Field Officers fhould' be allowed to " each of the military citablifhments in India/' a regulation which would produce a general promo- tion in the fubordinate ranks of their army. In the next place, under the prefent regulation^ an officer who may have ferved thirty years in India, and yet who, during this dreary iervicc, may D 2 not / ( 28 ) not have acquired a competency to enable him to return to his friends and his country, mull refign his rank and his pay, or remain in exile. — He would therefore propofe, " that a comfortable and ho- " nourable retreat, mould, after a certain number ii of years fervice, be afforded to them." This provifion alfo would have its effc£t of accelerating promotion in the army. In the laft place, many of the officers who went at an early period of life to India, experienced* from the difference of climate, the lofs of health; but under the prefent regulation, by returning to Europe, they had no other rofource', except in the feelings and charity of their friends, without which they muff remain in India, and fall victims to the difeafes of the climate: he would, therefore, pro- pofe, '• that under medical certificates, with the " approbation of the commanders in chief, and the « governments in India, officers, the recovery of " whole health might require it, fhould be per- " mitted to return to Europe, without lofs either of " rank or pay/' Nor would he limit this princi- ple to the neceflity arifing from want of health only, for he would propofe (as he held it to be politic, as well as reafonable) " that a certain pro- (i portion of the officers, in rotation, mould be " allowed to re-vifit their native country upon (i furloughs, without the lofs either of rank or " pay/' Thefe principles appeared to him to be the ge- neral ground upon which the new arrangements for the Indian army mould proceed, and he would fuggeft a plan for thefe purpofes to the Company. who, he was pcrfuaded, would feel the propriety of ' : ::';!i;'::ng a liberal arrangement for their armi ', whole ferviecs they, and their country, were ss ready to acknowledge as to reward. Mr. ( *9 ) Mr. Dundas concluded by moving his firfl reso- lution. Mr. Huffey faid, that he did not fee in the pa- pers on the table a iiatement of any debt due to Government. Mr. Secretary Dundas replied, that the Eaft In- dia Company contended that no debt was due. Mr. Huffey laid, he had always doubted whether the affairs of the Company were in lb rlourifhing a lituation as they were represented, both from their want of an iiicreafe of capital, and from the cir- cumltancc of their continually borrowing money. In the accounts of the year 17S1, which he held in his hand, he faw that the balance was dated to be nearly the fame as that of the prcfent year; the difference was only a fum of 42,000b lets, with refpect to the prcfent year. In 1781, the capital was only 2.800. occl. it had lince received an addi- tion of upwards of 4,ooo,oool. He wifhed, then, to be Shewn where was the increafe of prosperity on the part of the Company? The. Chancellor of the Exchequer ftated, that at the period to which the Honourable Gentleman al- luded, the accounts of the Company were very much difputed ; they were then involved in obfeu- rity and embarraffnient; it was only fince the fyf- tem of regularity, which had within thefe few years been introduced by his Right Honourable Friend, that they could be relied on in point of accuracy. — The fair way then, in order to afcertain their com- parative improvement, was to take fome years lince the commencement of that fyftem adopted by his Right Honourable Friend, and view it with a re- ference to the fubfequent vears. In 17C1 the ex- penfes of the war were it ill going on. It ha : not been practicable till after repeated orders fent to India to obtain the proper returns of thofe expenfes. It ( 3° ) It had been found neceffary, that debts ftated to he due to the Company fhould be itruck off; and like- wife it had been difeovered, that there were millions owing by them, of which nothing had been known. If, therefore, tor fome years there had been no ap- pearance of improvement in the it ate of the Com- pany's finances, it was not became there was no real improvement, but becaufe his Right Honoura- ble Friend had during thofe years been ensrasred in winding up the old accounts, lie mentioned 1786 as the firll year from which the new iyiiem began to operate. Mr. Huffey faid, he had referred to the year 1 78 1 , not from any principle of felection, but merely be- caufe the accounts of that year happened to be in his poffeffion. General Smith expreffed his fatisfactien at the order which the Right Hon. Secretary had intro- duced into his annual ftatement of the affairs of the Eaft India Company. Having introduced this prac- tice, he v, ifhed he would carry it farther, and ap- point a feparate day for the difcuilion of his fate- ment, as in the cafe of the Budget of the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer, when the Houfe might be prepared to go into the detail of the bufin; is, and, if neceflary, to urge their objections. So (..•; : rom there being any proipect of a diminution . profperity of the Company, he thought th it th- re- verie was likely to be the caie. lie fnon : < •■ ; . hie himfelf to the laft head of the fpcech of the Right Honourable Secretary. lie was glad to line! cafe of the oificcrs in India at lait likely to be • ■ ■. n up. He could not tell bow nianv application- had been made: to him on uw fubjecf. He fhould now read a letter from the Secretary of the India-Honfe to one of the oldeit otficers in the fervice of the Company. The letter was an application to know, whether ( 3' ) whether the officers would he paid their arrears, and whether fuch of them as were lick and wounded would be allowed a paffage ? The anfwer (fated, that the Directors could not comply with the requeft, but that they were ready to take into coniideration the cafe of any individual officer. Men could not be fo treated without feeling moil feverelv. But he ihould prefs the fubjeet no further, relying on the promife of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that fome fteps would be taken before the failing of the next fhips for India. lie trufted that the fit nation of the officers who had come home would not be over- looked, and that: fomething would be done to refcue them from the dependence and poverty under which they row laboured. Their cafe was fo difgraceful to thu- country that he wondered how it could at all have been fuffercd toexift. Mr. D. Scott detired the honourable gentleman to read over the three laft lines of the letter from the fecretary of the India Houfe. General Smith remarked, that he did not mean any reflection on the Court of Directors ; they could not act othcrwife till a new fyitem was adopted. Mr. D. Scott faid, he wilhed to do away any un- favourable imprelllon that the perufal of the letter might have excited on the minds of the Committee with refpect to the conduct of the Court of Di- rectors. He challenged the Honourable General to produce any one inftance where an officer who had made application to the Court had been ncgledled. He fiated, that the effec : t of the new arrangements had firit taken place in 1 786 ; before that period, it had not been known within a fum of three millions to what amount, and iinee, that the revenues of the Company had been increafed two millions annu- ally. Mr. ( 3* ) Mr, Hufley laid, that the public had not teas at the prices for which the Company had bargained to fupply them. Mr. D. Scott replied, that the Company were obliged to put up their teas at a certain price : if the public paid for them more than they were worth, it was their own fault. Mr. Lufhington enforced the claims and the fuf- fcrings of the officers in the fervice of the Eaft India Company. He felt himfelf particularly interested in the fubjecl, as many of them had been induced to come to this country in confequence of a motion which he had fome time lince made on their behalf. He recapitulated the leading points of the fpeech of the Right Hon. Secretary of State, and highly com- mended the clear and convincing manner in which they were (rated. Colonel Wood alio Supported the claims of the omcers, and wifhed to have fome Specific engage- nict froin one of the Directors on their behalf. Sir Francis Baring, alluding to what had fallen from General Smith, laid, ir was the iirit time he had heard any attack on the Court: of Directors, for their conduct to the officers of the Company. Every fervice had its different rules ; the officers in the King's Service had their advantages, as had like- wile thefe in the fervi ■■ of the Company. A colo- nel hacl a yearly income of ic,oocl. — he did not know what might he the pay of a general. The Honourable General had lurch' himfelf no reafon to complain. General Smith exprclTed himfelf furprifed at the treatment which he had ju.it received from his old friend. He had made no attack on the Court of Directors ; he had only found fault with the fyitem which prevailed with refpecr. to the officers. What had juit dropped from his honourable friend he mutt i iuppole ( 33 ) fuppofe, either to be the effect of temporary heat, or a piece of good-humoured raillery; but, as it feemed to convey a perfonal infinuation, he defied any one to find a tingle action to blame in the whole courfe of his life ; and referred to the teftimony which had been given to his conduct by the vote of thanks which had been parted for his fcrvices to the Company. Sir Francis Baring explained that he meant no perfonal allulion. After a few defultory remarks from Mr. Huffey and Mr. Dundas, the refolutions were fucceffively put and carried. The Houfe was then refumed, and the report or- dered to be received to-morrow. — Adjourned. Report on Eaft India Company s revenue accounts. Mr. Joddrell (according to order) reported from the committee of the whole Houfe, to whom it was referred to confider of the feveral accounts and pa- pers, which were pre tented to the Houfe. upon the 17th day of April, and the 8th day of May lait, by Mr. Owen (from the Directors of the Eaft India Company) the refolutions which the committee had directed him to report to the Houfe ; which he read in his place, and afterwards delivered in at the table, where the fame were read, and agreed to by the Houfe, and are as followeth, viz. 1. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company, in the provinces of Ben- gal, Bahar, and Oriffa, and from Benares and Oude, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, pott of- fice colledtions, Benares revenue, Oude fubfidy, land revenues, cuftoms, and the receipts from the fales of fait and opium, amounted, on the average E of ( z* ) of three years, 179 1-2 to 1793-4, bofli inctufirey to the ium of five crore forty-two lacks fifty-three thoufand one hundred and fevcnty-one current ru- pees. 1. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eafl India Company, in the provinces of Ben- gal, Bahar, and Oriifa, and from Benares and Oude., under the fame heads, which were estimated, for the year 1793-4, to amount to five crore forty- three lacks tvventy-feven thoufand fix hundred feventy-fix current rupees, amounted to five crore eighty-lever* lacks nineteen thoufand four hundred and lixty cur- rent rupees. 3. That it appears, that the charges incurred by the Eaft India Company, in the provinces of Ben- gal, Bahar, and Oriifa, and in Benares and Oude, under the heads of civil, judicial, military, and marine, the charges of buildings and fortifications, of coilecYing the revenues and euftoms, and the ad- vances and charges on account of fait and opium, which were C-iti mated, for the year 1793-4, at three crore twenty-three lacks eighty -three thoufand four hundred and fifty-eight current rupees, amounted to three crore thirty-three lacks nineteen thoufancf leven hundred and feventy-eight current rupees. 4. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company, in the provinces ot Ben- gal, Bahar, and Oriifa, and from Benares and Oude, ander the heads of mint or coinage duties, pott of- fice collections, Benares revenue, Oude fubfidy, land revenues, euftoms, and the receipts from the tales of fait and opium, for the year 1794-5, are eitimated, by the governor-general and council, to- amount to the turn of five crore fifty-eight lacks fix thoufand and fixty-eight current rupees. 5. That it appears, that the charges to be defrayed by the Eaft India Company, in the provinces of Bcn~ a gal, ( 35 ) gal, Bahar, and Oriffa, and in Benares and Oude, under the heads of civil, judicial, military, and ma- rine, the charges of buildings and fortifications, of oollecling the revenues and cuftoms. and the ad- vances and charges on account of fait and opium, for the year 1794-5, are eftimated, by the governor- general and council, to amount to the mm of three crore twenty-feven lacks eighty-fix thoufand three hundred and forty-five current rupees. 6. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company, at the prefidency of Fort St. George, and the icttlements fubordinate thereto, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, pott office collec- tions, fea and land cuftoms, fubfidies from the Na- bob of Arcot, the Rajah of Tanjore, and the Nizam, land revenues, and farms and licences, which (exclu- sive of the funis to be received from Tippoo Sultan) were eftimated, for the year 1793-4, to amount to forty-five lacks feventy-five thoufand fix hundred and forty pagodas, amounted to forty-two lacks feventy thoufand fix hundred and fifty-feven pago- das. 7. That it appears, that the charges incurred by the Eaft India Company, at the prefidency of Fort St. George, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the refpective heads of poft office, civil, military, and revenue charges, and for buildings and fortifications, which were eftimated, for the year 1793-4, to amount to forty-two lacks fifty-three thoufand two hundred and forty-four pagodas, amounted to forty- nine lacks ninety-eight thoufand four hundred and thirty-nine pagodas. 8. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company at the prefidency of Fort St. George, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, E 2 and ( 36 ) and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the heads aforefaid, for the year 1794-5, are eftimated, by the governor and council of Madras, to amount to forty-fix lacks thirty-eight thoufand two hundred and ninety -three. 9. That it appears, that the annual charges to be defrayed by the Eaft India Company, at the prefi- dency of Fort St. George, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the refpective heads afore - faid, in the year 1794-5, are eft i mated, by the go- vernor and council at Madras, to amount to the ium of forty-four lacks fifty-five thoufand fix hun- dred and feventeen pagodas. 10. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company, at the preiidency of Bom- bay, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, which were eftimated, for the year 1793-4, to amount to twenty- four lacks feventy thouiand two hundred and two rupees, amounted to twenty-feven lacks, feventy- fix thoufand five hundred and fixty-feven rupees. 1 1 . That it appears, that the charges incurred by the Eafr India Company, at the preiidency of Bom- bay, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, which were eftimated, for the year 1793-4, to amount ta fixty-one lacks eighty-feven thoufand nine hundred and four rupees, amounted to fixty-nine lacks fixty- feven thoufand and thirty-eight rupees. 12. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company, at the prefidency of Bom- bay, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, for the year 1704.-;, are eftimated by the governor and eouncil of Bombay, to amount to thirty-one lacks fifty-four thouiand five hundred and eighteen ru- pees. 13. That it appears, that the annual charges to be deirayed by the Eaft India Company, at the pre- fidency ( 37 ) fidency of Bombay, and the fettlements fubordinate thereto, in the year 1794-5, are eilimated at fixty- feven lacks thirty4hree thoufand feven hundred and ninety -one rupees. 14. That it appears, that the annual revenues of the Eaft India Company at the refidency of Fort Marlborough, and its dependencies, anting, from cuftoms, farms, and licences, amounted, on an ave- rage of three years, from 1 790-1 to 1792-3, both inclufive, to nineteen thoufand three hundred and fixty-two dollars. . 15. That it appears, that the debts owing by the Eaft India Company, at the feveral fettlements in India, amounted, according to the lateit advices, to the turn of feven crore thirty lacks fifty-four thou- fand fix hundred and nineteen rupees. 16. That it appears, that the part of the aforefaid debts, bearing interelt, amounted to fiye crore fifty-nine lacks feventy- two thoufand nine hun- dred and ninety-four current rupees, and that the intereft thereon amounted to forty-three lacks feventy thoufand four hundred and fixty-nine current ru- pees. 17. That it appear?, that the value of affets in India, confifiing of calh in the treafuries, of bills receivable, of goods provided to be fhipped for England, of goods imported to be fold in India, of fait, opium, &c. and of ftores for ufe, or fale, amounted, according to thelateft advices (including current rupees, four crore ieventy-nine lacks ninety- fix thoufand fix hundred and twelve, of debts ftated to be owing to the Company there) to eight crore eighty lacks feventy-fix thoufand and nine cur- rent rupees. 18. That it appears, that the balance of ftock, in favour of the Eaft India Company's commerce in China, amounted,, according to the lateit advices, to ( 38 ) to the fum of nine hundred and thirty-nine thoufand land forty pounds. 19. That it appears, that the effects of the Eail India Company in England, and afloat out- ward, conli/ting of annuities, cafh in the treafury, goods fold not paid for, goods unfold, cargoes afloat, and other articles in their commerce, amounted, on the iffc of March 1795, to the fum of ten millions four hundred and thirteen thoufand three hundred and fifty-four pounds. 20. That it appears, that the fales of the Eaft India Company's goods, which, in February 1 793, were ettimated, on an average, to amount to four millions nine hundred and eighty-eight thoufand one hundred and twenty-feven pounds, amounted, in the year 1794-5, to the fum of five millions five hundred and twenty-one thoufand eight hundre4 and fifty-eight pounds. FINIS, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT LOS ANGELES THE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY This book is DUE on the last date stamped below m L-0 -1, '41(1122) UC SOUTHERN REGIONAL LIBRARY FACILITY AA 000 112 472 6