\ THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS LIBRARY 33^ B87 5 V.IO LIBRARY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS i+~ c ' &£L 1 g*& : ^CX'6 *a . <~ . /&/# LIBRARY OF THE UNIVERSITY Of OXINOB REPORT, TOGETHER WITH MINUTES of EVIDENCE, AND ♦ • ACCOUNTS, FROM Xt)e Select Committee ■ON THE HIGH PRICE of GOLD BULLION [Ordered, by The House of Commons, to be printed, 8 June 1810.] LONDON: REPRINTED FOR J. JOHNSON AND CO., ST. PAUL'S CHURCHYARD J AND J. RIDGWAY, PICCADILLY; BY RICHARD TAYLOR AND CO., SHOE LANK. 1810. CONTENTS. REPORT p. 1—73 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE p. (1—2 3?) VIZ. Aaron Asher Goldsmid, Esq pp. (1. 8. 4-1. 61) Samuel Thomas Binns, Esq p. (IS) William Merle, Esq (21) Charles Lyne, Esq .' .. (47) Thomas Hughan, Esq., (a Member) (55) John Louis GrefFulhe, Esq pp. (61. 129) Mr. , (aContinental Merchant) .... (77. S3. 96. 102) John Whitmore, Esq p. (90) John Whitmore, Esq. and John Pearse, Esq. pp. (110. 121. 152, 173. 184) Abraham Goldsmid, Esq p. (114) William Cecil Chambers, Esq (135) James William Morrison, Esq (129) Samuel Williams, Esq (140) John Allen, Esq (149) Ebenezer Gilchrist, Esq (159) Thomas Thompson, Esq. (a Member) (162) Robert Bingley, Esq ( 167) Dr. Kelly . (169) John Pearse, Esq (170) Thomas Richardson, Esq pp. (177. 228) William Coningham, Esq p. (189) Sir Francis Baring, Bart (194) Edward Wakefield, Esq (199) William Irving, Esq pp. (207- 222) Vincent Stuckey, Esq p. (210) John Henton Tritton, Esq (213) Jeremiah Harman, Esq (218) Mr. John Humble (225) Charles Grant, Esq. (a Member) (232) William Thomas (236) ACCOUNTS. CONTENT*. V ACCOUNTS .pp. [2] to [115] No. 1. — Gold and Silver Coin and Bullion, and Wrought Plate, exported from Great Britain to Foreign Countries, in each of the last ten years, to 1st February 1810... p. [2] No. 2. — Gold and Silver Coin and Bullion, and Wrought Plate, exported from Great Britain to Ireland, in each of the last seven years, to 5th January 1810. . p. [10] No. 3.— Bullion or Coin which has been seized under the au- thority of the Statutes which regulate the exporta- tion thereof, in two years ending 1st February 1810 [10] fro. 4. — Coin or Bullion imported in His Majesty's Packets, for fouf years ended 5th January 1810 p. [11] No. 5.— Quantity of Coin imported by the Victualling D art- ment, during the present War p. [ 12] No. 6.-*Monthly Sales of Gold and Silver, by private Dealers, in the Bullion Office of the Bank of England, from 1st January 1809 to 1st April 1810 p. [12] No. 7- — Gold which has been delivered out from the Bullion Of- fice of the Bank of England, as sales and purchases by private Dealers ; from 1st January 1809 to 18th April 1810 p. [13] No. 8. — Gold and Silver deposited in the Bullion Office of the Bank of England, as having been imported from Abroad; from 1st January 1809 to 30th March 1810. p. [13] No. 9. — Gold and Silver exported by the East India Company to China and the East Indies, from 1788 to 1809 p. [14-] No. 10. — Annual Exports and Imports of Gold and Silver Coin or Bullion between China and the several Settle- ments of the East India Company ', from 1763 to 1808 p. [16] No. 11. — Bullion imported into the Company's Pies'dencies in India, from 1S02-3 to 1807-8; and Cost of Bul- lion imported by the Company to India and China, from 1800-1 10 1809-10 p. [20] No. 12. — Comparative Value of Gold and Silver at the several Presidencies in India, and at China p. [20] b VI CONTENTS'. No. IS. — Average Price paid by the Company for New Dollar*, from 1701 to 1808-9 p. \$& J No. 14. — Amount in Ounces, of Sales of Silver P eces of Eight and Silver Ingots, by the Bank of England ; from ' 1797 to 1810. p. [22] No. 15. — Annual Amount in Ounces, of Sales of Silver Pieces of Eight and Silver Ingots, by the Bank of England ; from 1797 to IS10 p. [23] No, 16.— Gold and Silver stamped and marked at the Assay Office at Goldsmith's Hall, in the city of London ; from May 1800 to the end of January 1S10. p. [23] No. 17.— Gold and Silver stamped and marked at the different Assay Offices in Great Britain; from 1801 to 1810 . . . , , p. [24] No. 1$. — Gold and Silver Wrought Plate, assayed and marked at the Assay Office, Dublin j from 1808 to 18SO p. [26] No. 19. — Gold imported into His Majesty's Mint, and GoM Monies coined; from 1797 to 1810 .p. [26]' No. 20. — Experiments made by the Officers of the Mint, to as- certain the Deficiency in Weight of the Gold Coins in circulation , . . p. [27] Nos. 21 & 22. — Portuguese Accounts of the productions of Gold, from the Mines of Brazil, from 1751 to 1795 ; and an Account of Portuguese Coin *p. [29, 30] Nos. 23 & 24-.— Coinage of Mexico, in Silver, from 1733 to 1794- ; also from 1795 to 1804- p. [31—33] Nu. 25. — Mines of Peru ; Coinage of Lima ; Mines of Chili, and Coinage of Spanish America p. [33] No. 26. — Spanish Mint, and Importation of Gold and Silver into Spain p. [36] No. 27. — Estimate of the proportional Quantities of Gold and Silver extracted annually from the Mines of Spanish and Portuguese America p. [37] No. 28. — Royal Duties collected at Potosi, from 1556 to 1800; and Coinage of Gold and Silver of the Royal Mint of Potosi, from 1778 to 1790 p. [39] No. 29. — Prices of the Fanega of Wheat and Barley, from 1675 to 1764, at Seville p. [40] No. 30. — Ditto ditto from 1 765 to 1787, at Castillo p. [41 ] CONTENTS. y'.i No. 31 — Prices of the Fanega of .Wheat and Barley, from 17S8 to 1792, at the two Castilles, and also at Andalu- sia and Estreraadura p. [UJ No. 32.— Ditto ditto from 1793 to 1804, at Medina de Rio Seco, in the kingdom of Leon , p. [4-2] No. 33. — Estimate of the Quantities of Gold and Silver added annually to the commerce of Europe, from 1790 to 1802 , ..... p. [43] No. 34. — Weekly Amount of Bank of England Notes out in circulation, for the years 179.5, 179G, and to the 1st of March 1797 ; distinguishing the Bank Post Bills p,£45] No. 35. — Notes of the Bank in circulation, including Bank Post Bills, on 1st February, 1st May, 1st August, and 1st November 1798 & 1799, 1808 & 1809 ; distin- guishing the amount of those under £.5... p. [4-7] No. 36. — Bank Notes in circulation of £.5. and upwards, includ- ing Bank Post Bills, for 1801 & 1802; also Notes under £.5. for the same two years p. [47 ] No. 37- — Bank Notes in circulation of £ 5. and upwards, on the 7th and 12th days of each month, from December 1808 to January 1810; distinguishing Bank Post Bills and Notes under £.5 p. [48] No. 38.—- Bank Notes out in circulation each day (Sundays and Holidays excepted) from 12th January to 4th Fe- bruary 1810 ; &c p.. [49] No. 39. — Weekly Amount of Bank Notes in circulation, from January to March 1810; distinguishing Bank Post Bills, Sec , . p. [50] No. 40. — Bank Notes in circulation of £.!). and upwards, on Sa- turday Night, from the beginning of March to the 12th May 1810; distinguishing Bank Post Bill?, &c p. [50] No. 41.— Dollars issutd by the Bank, to the eighth February 1810 P-£50] No. 42. — Bank Notes lying in the Exchequer in each month from December 1806 inclusive, to December 1808, ex- clusive p. [51 ] No. 43. — Bank Notes lying in the Exchequer from December 1808 to February 1810 p. £511 b2 Viii CONTENTS. No. 44. — Highest and lowest Prices of Bank Stock in each year* from January 1796 to May 1810: Also, the Price on the 1st January and 1st July in each year ; from Castaign's Tables P- [52] No. 45. — Advances made by the Bank to Government, on Land and Malt, Exchequer Bills, and other Securities ; from 1798 to 1810 P- [52] No. 46.-— Issues of Coin from the Bank, since the 1st May 1S03 p. IBS'] No. 47. — Bank Notes in circulation on Saturday Night in each week of the year 1797; and the Course of Ex : change on Hamburgh the following Tuesday.p. [58] No. 48. — Bank Notes in circulation of £.5. and upwards, includ- ing Bank Post Bills ; in January, February, and part of March 1795 and 1810. ..... . . p. [59] No. 49. — Comparisons of Hamburgh Exchanges with Amount of Bank Notes at various periods p. [60] No. 50. — Notes and Bills of the Bank of Ireland, in circulation from 1 st January 1 805, to first January 1 8 1 0. p. [61] No. 51. — Silver Tokens issued by the Bank of Ireland, to 3d March 1810 p. [63] No. 52.— -Number of Licences for the issue of Promissory Notes, granted by the Commissioners of Stamps ; for the year ending 10th October 1809 .p. [63] No. 53. — Duties on Promissory Notes reissuable ; from January 1798 to the latest pei iod, &c p. [64] No. 54. — Duties on Bills of Exchange, and Promissory Notes not reissuable ; for 1806,1807, 1808, and 1809. p. [66] No. 55. — Number of Stamps of Promissory Notes reissuable, from 10th October 1808 to 1st June 1810; distin- guishing the Amount issued in each Quarter, and the correspondent Produce in Money.... p. [67] Nos. 56, 57, & 58. — Letter and Enclosures from Mr. Greffulbe, relative to the Weight and Standard of Gold and Silver p. [70] No. 59.— Relative Value between Gold and Silver in England and in Foreign Countries, according to their re- spective Mint Regulations, and by Assays ; with the Par of Exchange of each of those Countries on England, by Dr. Kelly p. [72} CONTENTS. U Ko.-60. — Price of Gold and Rate o f Exchange, at Hamburgh, on the first Fost day in every month p. [74] No. 61. — Average of Exchange, New York on Great Britain, from IS' ) 1S0S, inclusive; Also, the Exchange at Boston, in several ,of the mondis of 1809, and in January 1810 p. [74] -No. 62. — Extracts from a Book, entitled, " T! e Massashusetts Register, &c. for 1808;"— viz. Table of the Value and Weight of Coins as they pass in 'he respective States of the Union, with their Sterling and Federal Value p. [75] No. 63. — Tables for receiving and paying the Gold Coins of France and Spain, Great Britain and Portugal, ac- cording to Act of Congress p. [76] No. 64. — Table of the Weight and Value of the American Coins p. [77] No. 65. — Course of Exchange at Gothenburg, on the 30th April and 4th May 1810; and in Sweden for the year 1809 . P-[78] No. 66. — Exchange, London on Dublin, and Dublin on Lon- don ; from January 1804 to March 1810. . p. [79] No. 67- — Do. Dublin on London; 16th May 1810.. .p. [80] No. 6S.— Do. between Belfast and London, and between Belfast and Dublin ; from January 1 804 to Janu- ary 1810.. p. [80] No. 69. — Money issued by the Paymasters General to certain persons for the purchase of Dollars p. [89] No. 70.— Bills of Exchange drawn on the Treasury, for Expences Abroad, accepted by Ord>?r payable at the Bank of England, and which became due in each year since 5th January 1804; distinguishing the Sums, the Places, and the Services : — A'.-so, Bills of Exchange drawn as above, Sic. other than those accepted by Order; distinguishing, &c , p. [93J No. 71.— Annual aveiage Prices of Wheat in Scotland, also in England and Wales, from 1770 to l r -<09.. . p. [109] No. 72. — Annual aver^g* Pi ires of Wheat in Ireland, fri m 1784 to 1S09 p. [109] No. 73.— Balance of Tirad< in favour of, or against Gre.it Britain, in her Commerce with ail parts of the World, du. ring the last five years. , p. [_110] X CONTEXTS. No. 74. — Official Value of the Exports from Great Britain to the Continent of Europe, to the West Indies, to Ame- rica, to Africa, and to A^>ia respectively, during the last five years p. [1 1 1 ] )io. 75. — Official and Real Value of the Exports from Great Bri- tain to the Continent of Europe, in each of the last five years p. [ 1 1 1 ] No. 76. — Official and Real Value of the Imports into Great Bri- tain, from the Continent of Europe, in each of the last five years p. [Ill] -No. 77-— -Quantity of Grain, Meal, and Flour imported from the Continent of Europe into England ; from September IS09to April 1810 ffi[U2] No. 78.— Value of Imports and Exports of Ireland, for five years, to January 1810. p. [112] No. 79. — Monies sent from this Country by the Paymasters Ge- neral of the Forces, for Army Services and Foreign Succours, from the commencement of the present War.tr- 1st February 1810 ; distinguishing the Coir, .y/hjen and where sent, &c. p. [11^3 REPORT. The SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to enquire into the Cause of the High Price of Gold Bullion, and to take into consi- deration the State of the Circulating Medium^ and of the Exchanges between Great Britain and Foreign Parts ; — -and to report the same, with their Observations thereupon, from time to time, to The House ; Have, pursuant to the Orders of The House, examined the matters to them re- ferred ; and have agreed to the following REPORT : YOUR Committee proceeded, in the first instance, to ascertain what the price of Gold Bullion had been, as well as the rates of the Foreign Exchanges, for some time past ; particularly during the last year. Your Committee have found that the price of Gold Bullion, which, by the regulations of His Majesty's Mint, is ^£. 3. 17. 10 J. per ounce of standard fineness, was, during the years 1S06, 1807 and 1808, as high as £. 4. in the market. Towards the end of 1808 it began to advance very rapidly, and continued very high during the whole year 1 809 ; the market price of standard Gold in bars fluctuating from £.4. 9. to £.4. 12. per oz. The market price at £. 4. 10. is about 15 J per cent, above the Mint price. Your Committee have found, that during the three first months of the present year, the price of standard Gold in bars remained nearly at the same price as during last year j viz. from £. 4. 10. to ,£.4. 12. per oz. In 2 REPORT. the course of the months of March and April, the price of standard Gold is quoted but once in Wettenhall's ta- bles ; viz. on the 6th of April last, at £. 4. 6. which is rather more than 10 per cent, above the Mint price. The last quotations of the price of Gold, which have been given in those tables, are upon the 18th and 22d of May, when Portugal Gold in coin is quoted at£. 4. 11. per oz. : Portugal Gold coin is about the same fineness as our standard. It is stated in the same tables, that in the month of March last, the price of new Doubloons rose from <£. 4, 7. to £. 4>. 9. per oz. Spanish Gold is from 4^ to 4 J grains better than standard, making about 4s. per oz. difference in value. It appears by the Evidence, that, the price of foreign Gold coin is generally higher than that of bar Gold, on account of the former finding a more ready vent in fo- reign markets. The difference between Spanish and Por- tugal Gold in coin and Gold in bars, has of late been about 2s. per ounce. Your Committee have also to state, that there is said to be at present a difference of between 3s. and 4s. per ounce between the price of bar Gold which may be sworn off for exportation as being foreign Gold, and the price of such bar Gold as the Dealer will not venture to swear off; while the former was about £, 4. 10. in the market, the latter is said to have been about £. 4. 6. On account of these extrinsic differences, occasioned either by the expense of coinage, or by the obstructions of law, the price of standard Gold in bars, such as may be exported, is that which it is most material to keep generally in view through the present enquiry. It appeared to Your Committee, that it might be of use, in judging of the cause of this high price of Gold Bullion, to be informed also of the prices of Silver during the same period. The price of standard Silver in His REPORT. 3 Majesty's Mint is 5.9. 2d. per ounce ; at this standard price, the value of a Spanish Dollar is 4.?. 4rf. or, which comes to the same thing, Spanish Dollars are, at that standard price, worth 4s. 1 J 4,d. per ounce. It is stated in Wet- tenhaU's tables, that throughout the year 1809, the price of new Dollars fluctuated from 5s. 5cl. to 5*. Id. per ounce, or from 10 to 13 per cent, above the Mint price of standard Silver. In the course of the last month, new Dollars have been quoted as high as 5s. Sd. per ounce, or more than 15 per cent, above the Mint price. Your Committee have likewise found, that towards the end of the year 1 SOS, the Exchanges with the Con- tinent became very unfavourable to this Country, and continued still more unfavourable through the whole of 1809, and the three first months of the present year. Hamburgh, Amsterdam, and Paris, are the principal places with which the Exchanges are established at present. During the last six months of 1 809, and the three first months of the present year, the Exchanges on Hamburgh and Amsterdam were depressed as low as from 1 6 to 20 per cent, below par ; and that on Paris still lower. The Exchanges with Portugal have corresponded with the others ; but they are complicated by some circumstances which shall be explained separately. Your Committee find, that in the course of the month of March last, that is, from the 2d of March to the 3d April, the Exchanges with the three places above men- tioned received a gradual improvement. The Exchange with Hamburgh rose gradually from 29. 4. to 31.; that with Amsterdam from 31. 8. to 33. 5. ; that with Paris from 19. 16. to 21. 11. Since the 3d of April last to the present time, they have remained nearly stationary at those rates, the Exchange with Hamburgh, as stated in the tables printed for the use of the Merchants, appearing ds much against this Country as £. 9. per cent, below P 2 4 REPORT. par ; that with Amsterdam appearing to be more than £. 7. per cent, below par ; and that with Paris more than £, 1 4. per cent, below par. So extraordinary a rise in the market price of Gold in this Country, coupled with so remarkable a depression of our Exchanges with the Continent, very early, in the judgment of Your Committee,, pointed to something in the state of our own domestic currency as the cause of both appearances. But before they adopted that conclu- sion, which seemed agreeable to all former reasonings and experience, they thought it proper to enquire more particularly into the circumstances connected with each of those two facts; and to hear, from persons of commercial practice and detail, what explanations they had to offer of so unusual a state of things. With this view, Your Committee called before them several Merchants of extensive dealings and intelligence, and desired to have their opinions, with respect to the cause of the high price of Gold and the low rates of Exchange. I. It will be found by the Evidence, (Minutes of Evidence, pp. 41 — 45. 135, 136. 178, 179.) that the high price of Gold is ascribed, by most of the Witnesses, entirely to an alleged scarcity of that article, arising out of an unusual demand for it upon the Continent of Europe. This un- usual demand for Gold upon the Continent is described by some of them as being chiefly for the use of the French Armies, though increased also by that state of alarm, and failure of confidence, which leads to the practice of hoarding. Your Committee are of opinion, that, in the sound and natural state of the British currency, the foundation of which is Gold, no increased demand for Gold from REPORT. 5 other parts of the world, however great, or from what- ever causes arising, can have the effect of producing here, for a considerable period of time, a material rise in the market price of Gold. But before they proceed to ex- plain the grounds of that general opinion, they wish to state some other reasons which alone would have led them to doubt whether, in point of fact, such a demand for Gold, as is alleged, has operated in the manner supposed. If there were an unusual demand for Gold upon the Continent, such as could influence its market price in this country, it would of course influence also, and indeed in the first instance, its price in the Continental markets ; and it was to be expected that those who ascribed the high price here to a great demand abroad, would have been prepared to state that there was a corresponding high price abroad. Your Committee did not find that they grounded their inference upon any such information ; and so far as Your Committee have been enabled to ascertain, it does not appear that during the period when the price of Gold Bullion was rising here, as valued in our paper, there was any corresponding rise in the price of Gold Bullion in the market of the Continent, as valued in their respective currencies. Mr. JVhitmore, indeed, the late Governor of the Bank, stated, (Mm. p. 1 ^S, 1 19. ) that in his opinion it was the high price abroad which had car- ried our Gold coin out of this Country ; but he did not offer to Your Committee any proof of this high price. Mr. Grefulke, a Continental Merchant, (Min. p. TO ) who appeared to be remarkably well informed in the de- tails of trade, being asked by the Committee, If he could state whether any change had taken place in the price of Gold in any of the foreign markets within the last year ? answered, " No very material change that I am aware of." Upon a subsequent day, (Min. p. 131, 152.) having had 6 REPORT. time to refer to the actual prices, he again stated to the Committee, " I beg leave to observe, that there has " been no alteration of late in the Mint price of Gold in " foreign places, nor have the market prices experienced " an advance at all relative to the rise that has taken place " in England; one of the papers I have delivered shews the " foreign prices reduced into sterling money at the present ar. Those two sums may happen to be 524 REPORT. added together in the calculation, or they may happen to be set against each other. If the country, whose cur- rency has been depreciated in comparison with the other, has the balance of trade also against it, the computed rate of exchange will appear to be still more unfavourable than the real difference of exchange will be found to be ; and so if that same country has the balance of trade in its favour, the computed rate of exchange will appear to be much less favourable than the real difference of ex- change will be found to be. Before the new coinage of our silver in King William's time, the Exchange between England and Holland, computed in. the usual manner according to the standard of their respective mints, was 25 per cent, against England ; but the value of the cur- rent coin of England was more than 25 per cent, below the standard value ; so that if that of Holland was at its full standard, the real exchange was in fact in favour of England. It may happen in the same manner, that the two parts of the calculation may be both opposite and equal, the real exchange in favour of the country by trade being equal to the nominal exchange against it by the state of its currency : in that case, the computed exchange will be at par, while the real exchange is in fact in favour of that country. Again, the currencies of both the countries which trade together may have undergone an alteration, and that either in an equal degree, or unequal- ly : in such a case, the question of the real state of the exchange between them becomes a little more compli- cated, but it is to be resolved exactly upon the same prin- ciple. Without going out of the bounds of the present inquiry, this may be well illustrated by the present state of the Exchange of London with Portugal, as quoted in the tables for the 1 8th of May last. The exchange of London on Lisbon appears to be 67J ; 67^- d. sterling for a mill ree is the old established par of exchange be- tween the two countries ; and 67 J accordingly is still said REPORT. *5 to be the par. But by the evidence of Mr. Lfyhe, it appears, {Min. p. 50.) that, in Portugal, all payments are now by Jaw made one-half in hard money, and one-half in Govern- ment paper ; and that this paper is depreciated at a dis- count of 27 per cent. Upon all payments made in Por- tugal, therefore, there is a discount or loss of 134 per cent. ; and the exchange at 67^-, though nominally at par, is in truth IS^ per cent, against this Country. If the exchange were really at par, it would be quoted at 56-jVs-j or apparently \Sh per cent, in favour of London, as compared with the old par which was fixed before the depreciation of the Portuguese medium of payments. Whether this 1 3& per cent, which stands against this Country by the present Exchange on Lisbon, is a real difference of Exchange, occasioned by the course of trade and by the remittances to Portugal on account of Government, or a nominal and apparent Exchange occa- sioned by something in the state of our own currency, or is partly real and partly nominal, may perhaps be de- termined by what Your Committee have yet to state. It appears to Your Committee to have been long set- tled and understood as a principle, that the difference of Exchange resulting from the state of trade and payments between two countries is limited by the expence of con- veying and insuring the precious metals from one coun- try to the other ; at least, that it cannot for any consi- derable length of time exceed that limit. The real diffe- rence of Exchange, resulting from the state of trade and payments, never can fall lower than the amount of such expence of carriage, including the Insurance. The truth of this position is so plain, and it is so uniformly agreed to by all the practical authorities, both commercial and political, that Your Committee will assume it as indispu- table. It occurred however to Your Committee, that the B 26 REPORT. amount of that charge and premium of insurance might be increased above what it has been in ordinary periods even of war, by the peculiar circumstances which at pre- sent obstruct the commercial intercourse between this Country and the Continent of Europe ; and that as such an increase would place so much lower than usual the limit to which our Exchanges might fall, an explanation might thereby be furnished of their present unusual fall. Your Committee accordingly directed their enquiries to this point. It was stated to Your Committee, by the Merchant who has been already mentioned as being intimately ac- quainted with the trade between this Country and the Continent, (Mm. p. 83, 84.) that the present expence of transporting Gold from London to Hamburgh, indepen- dent of the premium of Insurance, is from ]|to 2 per cent. ; that the risk is very variable from day to day, so that there is no fixed premium, but he conceived the average risk, for the fifteen months preceding the time when he spoke, to have been about 4 per pent. : mak- ing the whole cost of sending Gold from London to Hamburgh for those fifteen months, at such average of the risk, from && to 6 per cent.— Mr. Abraham Gold- smid stated, that in the last live or six months of the year 1809, the expence of sending Gold to Holland varied exceedingly, from 4 to 7 per cent, for all charges, cover- ing the risk as well as the costs of transportation. By the Evidence which was taken before the Committees upon the Bank affairs in 1797, it appears that the cost of sending specie from London to Hamburgh in that time of war, including all charges as well as an average insu- rance, was estimated at a little more than 3 J per cent. It is clear, therefore, that in consequence of the peculiar circumstances of the present state of the war, and the increased difficulties of intercourse with the Continent, REPORT. 27 the cost of transporting the precious metals thither from this Country has not only been rendered more fluctuating than it used to be, but, upon the whole, is very consi- derably increased. It would appear, however, that upon an average of the risk for that period when it seems to have been highest, the last half of the last year, the cost and insurance of transporting Gold to Hamburgh or to Holland did not exceed 7 per cent. It was of course greater at particular times, when the risk was above that average. It is evident also that the risk, and consequently the whole cost of transporting it to an inland market, to Paris for example, would, upon an average, be higher than that of carrying it to Amsterdam or Hamburgh. It follows, that the limit to which the Exchanges, as result- ing from the state of trade, might fall and continue un- favourable for a considerable length of time, has, during the period in question, been a good deal lower than in former times of war ; but it appears also, that the ex- pence of remitting specie has not been increased so much, and that the limit, by which the depression of the Ex- changes is bounded, has not been lowered so much, as to afford an adequate explanation of a fall of the Ex- changes so great as from 1 6 to 20 per cent, below par. The increased cost of such remittance would explain, at those moments when the risk was greatest, a fall of some- thing more than 7 per cent, in the Exchange with Ham- burgh or Holland, and a fall still greater perhaps in the Exchange with Paris ; but the rest of the fall, which has actually taken place, remains to be explained in some other manner. Your Committee are disposed to think, from the result of the whole evidence, contradictory as it is, that the circumstances of the trade of this Country, in the course of the last year, were such as to occasion a real fall of our Exchanges with the Continent to a certain extent, e 2 (28) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \W. Merlf. guineas, and yet yon choose to refrain from purchasing light guineas at more than the current price ; what are your mo- tives for refusing to purchase at the high price ? — I think it would open such a field for fraud ; a number of persons re- ducing the guineas and then selling them. That is the reason why you refuse to purchase light guineas at a higher price ? — Yes. You have stated, that the Bank would give £. 4. an ounce for light guineas so melted down ; would you not conceive that the Bank is committing an offence against the law ? — I believe I was asked, what the Bank gives now : the Bank gives £-4.; but I do not know that they have had any liglH guineas brought in, more than myself, for several years ; it is bars of Gold carried in for which they give £. 4. ; there have been no light guineas melted for several years. Will you describe to the Committee the process vulgarly called sweating guineas ?— I do not know exactly in what manner ; I have never seen it done, nor know in what man- ner it is done : I believe it is a name used rather than a thing carried into execution. You know that light guineas are diminished by some pro- cess ? — When the light Gold was called in, I believe it was onlv from absolute fair wear. Can you state what is the average weight of guineas now in circulation ?— We see none ; we do not even see a seven- shilling piece. Are not the new seven-shilling pieces from the Mint worth rather more than their proportion ? — No; three seven-shilling pieces weigh exactly what a guinea weighs. You say you have been in the habit of receiving many thousand light guineas ?-^-Yes, formerly. Can you inform the Committee how much they are under' weight, upon the average ? — I should apprehend upon the average they would hardly exceed half a grain ; for the Bank takes them at 5 pennyweights 8 grains, and all bankers take them at the same weight ; and if it went the least back it wa$ refused as a light guinea: but I apprehend it would not be more than half a grain upon each. If you took a thousand light guineas, you apprehend they would weigh about 5 dwts. 7 4-g rs « ?— Yes, W. Merle.] minutes op evidence. (29) What difference would that make in the price? — They will produce very near si. 1 . 0. 9- So that the average price of light guineas is about jf . 1 9-? —Yes ; I speak of the price when Gold was at the exact standard. You state, that you were not in the habit of giving more for light guineas than standard price; you know that others in the trade do. do you not? — I cannot speak to that from my own knowledge. Have you not lately had brought to you a great quantity of Gold which cannot be exported? — It is very scarce now; but there is a great deal that we melt clown, which cannot be exported, because it cannot be. sworn off as foreign Gold. Has there not come to you a great quantity within the last twelvemonth? — No, it has been very scarce, we can hardly supply the trade ; the silversmiths about London buy a great quantity of Gold and melt it down; we buy it according to the report of the Assay Master; the want of it is owing to the shortness of supply ; and, I apprehend, a great deal is smug- gled out of the country. Taking the price of ninety shillings an ounce, what is a cur- rent guinea worth ? — .Twenty-four shillings and a pennv. What do you conceive was the average of the guineas when they were last in circulation ? — Five pennyweights seven grains and an half, about threepence less in value ; they produced from ^. ]. 0. 6. to £. 1. 0. Q. If five hundred guineas, such as are in circulation, were brought to you, do you think they would weigh above five pennyweights eight grains? — No, I should apprehend not; but if they did not all weigh five pennyweights eight grains ai the Bank, they would refuse such as did not ; they would not take them altogether: we have left off weighing them, and so has every body lately; except ihe Bank) because they pass even under five penyweights eight grains at :£. !. 1.0. What do you conceive would be the average weight, ifyon were to take the mass of guineas that are in circulation now/ — I should apprehend they would weigh about live | its seven grains and a half: if it is only a fraction of a sixteenth under live pennyweights eigbl grains* tiny are i J as Ii.'ht. so REPORT. - - - £. 2,785,252. In 1793 - 4 - - - £. 8,235,591. 5 - - - i,\ 11,040,236. 6 * - - £.10,649,916. The following Is an account of the official value of our Imports and Exports with the Continent of Europe alone^ in each of the last five years : Balance in favour of Great Britain, IMPORTS. EXPORTS. reckoned in Official Value. £ <£. & 1805 10,008,649 15,465*430 5,456,781 1806 8,197,256 13,216,386 5,019,130 1807 7,973,510 12,689,590 4,716,080 1808 4,210,671 11,280,490 7,069,819 1809 9,551,857 23,722,615 14,170,758 The balances with Europe alone in favour of Great Britain, as exhibited in this imperfect statement, are not far from corresponding with the general and more accu- rate balances before given. The favourable balance of 1 809 with Europe alone, if computed according to the actual value, would be much more considerable than the value of the same year, in the former general statement. A favourable balance of trade on the face of the Ac- count of Exports and Imports, presented annually to Parliament, is a very probable consequence of large drafts on Government for foreign expenditure ; an augmenta- tion of exports, and a diminution of imports, being pro- moted and even enforced by the means of such drafts. For if the supply of bills drawn abroad, either by the Agents of Government, or by individuals, is dispropor- tionate to the demand, the price of them in foreign money falls, until it is so low as to invite purchasers ; and the purchasers, who are generally Foreigners, not wishing to REPORT. 31 transfer their property permanently to England, have a. reference to the terms on which the bills on England will purchase those British commodities which are in demand, either in their own country, or in intermediate places, with which the account may be adjusted. Thus, the price of the bills being regulated in some degree by that of British commodities, and continuing to fall till it be- comes so low as to be likely to afford a profit on the pur- chase and exportation of these commodities, an actual exportation nearly proportionate to the amount of the bills drawn can scarcely fail to take place. It follows, that there cannot be, for any long period, either a high- ly favourable or unfavourable balance of trade; for the balance no sooner affects the price of bills, than the price of bills, by its re- action on the state of trade, promotes an equalization of commercial exports and imports. Your Committee have here considered Gash and Bullion as forming a part of the general mass of exported or imported articles, and as transferred according to the state both of the supply and the demand ; forming how- ever, under certain circumstances, and especially in the case of great fluctuations in the general commerce, a pe- culiarly commodious remittance. Your Committee have enlarged on the documents sup- plied by Mr. Irving, for the sake of throwing further light on the general question of the balam. c trade and the Exchanges, and of dissipating some very prevalent errors which have a great practical influence on the subject now under consideration. That the real Exchange against this Country with the Continent cannot at any time have materially exceeded the limit fixed by the cost at that time of transporting spe- cie, Your Committee are convinced upon the principles which have been already stated. That in point of fact, those Exchanges have not exceeded that limit, seems to receive a very satisfactory illustration from one part of the m REPORT. evidence of Mr. Greffulhe, who, of all the Merchants examined, seemed most wedded to the opinion, that the state of the balance of payments alone was sufficient to account for any depression of the Exchanges, however great. From what the Committee have already stated with respect to the par of Exchange, it is manifest that the Exchange between two countries is at its real par, when a given quantity of Gold or Silver in the one coun- try is convertible at the market price into such an amount of the currency of that country, as will purchase a bill of Exchange on the other country for such an amount of the currency of that other country, as will there be convertible at the market price into an equal quantity of Gold or Silver of the same fineness. In the same manner the real Exchange is in favour of a country having mo- ney transactions with another, when a given quantity of Gold or Silver in the former is convertible for such an amount in the currency of that latter country, as will there be convertible into a greater quantity of Gold or Silver of the same fineness. Upon these principles, Your Committee desired Mr. Greffulhe to make certain calculations, which appear in his Answers to the following Questions ; viz. Ci Supposing you had a pound weight troy of Gold of the English standard at Paris, and that you wished by means of that to procure a Bill of Exchange upon Lon- don, what would be the amount of the Bill of Exchange which you would procure in the present circumstances ? — I find'that a pound of Gold of the British standard at the present market price of 105 francs, and the exchange at 20 livres, would purchase a Bill of Exchange of £,. 59. 8.5. " At the present market price of Gold in London, how much standard Gold can you purchase for &. 59. 8s. ? — At the pice of £,. 4. 12.?. I find it will purchase 13 ounces of Gold, within a very small fraction. " Then what is the difference per cent, in the quantity REPORT. S3 of Standard Gold which is equivalent to £. 59. 85. of our currency as at Paris and in London? — About 8 J per cent. " Suppose you have a pound weight troy of our stand- ard Gold at Hamburgh, and that you wished to part with it for a Bill of Exchange upon London, what would be the amount of the Bill of Exchange, which, in the present circumstances, you would procure ? — At the Hamburgh price of 101, and the Exchange at 29, the amount of the Bill purchased on London would be £. 58. 4s. " What quantity of our standard Gold, at the present price of £. 4. lis. do you purchase for £. 58. 4s. ? — About 12 ounces and 3 dwts. " Then what is the difference per cent, between the quantity of standard Gold at Hamburgh and in London, which is equivalent to £. 58. 4s. sterling ? — About 5 j- per cent. " Suppose you had a pound weight troy of our stand- ard Gold at Amsterdam, and wished to part with it for a Bill of Exchange upon London, what would be the amount sterling of the Bill of Exchange which you would procure? — At the Amsterdam price of 144, Exchange 31. 6. and Bank agio 1 per cent, the amount of the Bill on London would be £. 58. 18s. " At the present price of £. 4. 12s. what quantity of our standard Gold do you purchase in London for ,£.58. 18.v. sterling? — 12 oz. 16 dwts. " How much is that per cent. ? — 7 per cent." (Min. p. 133.) Similar calculations, but made upon different assumed data, will be found in the evidence of Mr. Abraham Goldsmid. (71/m. pp. 115, 116.) From these answers of Mr. GrefTulhe, it appears, that when the computed Exchange with Hamburgh was 29, that is, from 16 to 17 54 REPORT. per cent, below par, the real difference of Exchange, re- sulting from the state of trade and balance of payments was no more than 5 h per cent, against this Country ; that when the computed Exchange with Amsterdam was SI. 6. that is about \5 per cent, below par, the real Ex- change was no more than 7 per cent, against this Coun- try ; that, when the computed Exchange with Paris was 20, that is 20 per cent, below par, the real Exchange was no more than 8j- per cent, against this Country. (Min. p. 133.) After making these allowances, therefore, for the effect of the balance of trade and payments upon our Exchanges with those places, there will still remain a fall of 1 1 per cent, in the Exchange with Hamburgh, of above 8 per cent, in the Exchange with Holland, and of 1 ] | per cent, in the Exchange with Paris, to be ex- plained in some other manner. If the same mode of calculation be applied to the more recent statements of the Exchange with the Continent, it will perhaps appear, that though the computed Exchange is at present against this Country, the real Exchange is in its favour. From the foregoing reasonings relative to the state of the Exchanges, if they are considered apart, Your Com- mittee find it difficult to resist an inference, that a por* tion at least of the great fail which the Exchanges lately suffered must have resulted not from the state of trade, but from a change in the relative value of our domestic currency. But when this deduction is joined with that which Your Committee have stated, respecting the change in the market price of Gold, that inference ap- pears to be demonstrated. III. In consequence of the opinion which Your Committee' REPORT. 35 entertain, that, in the present artificial condition of the circulating medium of this Country, it is most important to watch the Foreign Exchanges and the market price of Gold, Your Committee were desirous to learn, whether the Directors of the Bank of England held the same opi- nion, and derived from it a practical rule for the control of their circulation ; and particularly whether, in the course of the last year, the great depression of the Ex- changes, and the great rise in the price of Gold, had suggested to the Directors any suspicion of the currency of the Country being excessive. Mr. Whitmore, the late Governor of the Bank, stated to the Committee, (Mm. p. 111.) that in regulat- ing the general amount of the loans and discounts, he did " not advert to the circumstance of the Exchanges ; " it appearing upon a reference to the amount r>f our *■ notes in circulation, and the course of Exchange, that " they frequently have no connexion." He afterwards said, {Min. p. 112.) "My opinion is, 1 do not know " whether it is that of the Bank, that the amount of our " paper circulation has no reference at all to the state of " the Exchange.*' And on a subsequent day, Mr. Whitmore stated, (Min. p. 174.) that " the present un- " favourable state of Exchange has no influence upon the Ci amount of their issues, the Bank having acted precisely " in the same way as they did before." He was like- wise asked, (Min. p. 110.) Whether, in regulating the amount of their circulation, the Bank ever adverted to the difference between the market and Mint price of Gold ? and having desired to have time to consider that question, Mr. Whmnore, on a subsequent dav, answer- ed it in the following terms, which suggested these further questions : " In taking into consideration the amount of your notes " out in circulation, and in limiting the extent of your f 2 36 REPORT. * f discounts to Merchants, do you advert to the difference, " when such exists, between the market and the Mint price " of Gold ? — We do advert to that, inasmuch as we do " not discount at any time for those persons who we know, " or have good reason to suppose, export the Gold. " Do you not advert to it any further than by refusing " discounts to such persons ? — We do advert to it, inas- i( much as whenever any Director thinks it bears upon and any inferences pro- ceeding upon such a supposition would be entirely errone- ous. The effective currency of the Country depends upon the quickness of circulation, and the number of ex-, changes performed in a given time, as well as upon its numerical amount ; and all the circumstances, which have a tendency to quicken or to retard the rate of circulation, render the same amount of cuirency more or less ade- quate to the wants of trade. A much smaller amount is required in a high state of public credit, than when alarms make individuals call in their advances, and pro- vide against accidents by hoarding ; and in a period of commercial security and private confidence, than when, mutual distrust discourages pecuniary arrangements lor any distant time. But, above all, the same amount of currency will be more or less adequate, in proportion tQ the skill which the great money-dealers possess in manag- ing and economising the use of the circulating medium. Your Committee are of opinion, that the improvements, €* REPORT. which have taken place of late years in this Country, and particularly in the district of London, with regard to the vise and economy of money among Bankers, and in the mode of adjusting commercial payments, must have had a much greater effect than has hitherto been ascribed to them, in rendering the same sum adequate to a much greater amount of trade and payments than formerly. Some of those improvements will be found detailed in the Evidence : they consist principally in the increased use of Bankers' drafts in the common payments of London ; the contrivance of bringing ail such drafts daily to a common receptacle, where they are balanced against each other ; the intermediate agency of Bill-brokers ; and several Gther changes in the practice of London Bankers, are to the same effect, of rendering it unnecessary for them to keep so large a deposit of money as formerly. Within the London district, it would certainly appear, that a smaller sum of money is required than formerly to perform the same number of exchanges and amount of payments, if the rate of prices had remained the same. It is mate- rial also to observe, that both the policy of the Bank of England itself, and the competition of the Country bank paper, have tended to compress the paper of, the Bank of England, more and more, within London and the ad- jacent district. All these circumstances must have co- operated to render a smaller augmentation of Bank of England paper necessary to supply the demands of our increased trade than might otherwise have been required ; and shew how impossible it is, from the numerical amount alone of that paper, to pronounce whether it is excessive or not : a more sure criterion must be resorted to, and such a criterion, Your Committee have already shown, is only to be found in the state of the Exchanges, and the price of Gold Bullion. The particular circumstances of the two years which REPORT. 65 are so remarkable in the recent history of our circulation, 1793 and 1797, throw great light upon the principle which Your Committee have last stated. In the year 1 793, the distress was occasioned by a failure of confidence in the country circulation, and a consequent pressure upon that of London. The Bank of England did not think it advisable to enlarge their is- sues to meet this increased demand, and their Notes, previously issued, circulating less freely in consequence of the alarm that prevailed, proved insufficient for the neces- sary payments. In this crisis, Parliament applied a reme- dy, very similar, in its eitect, to an enlargement of the advances and issues of the Bank ; a loan of Exchequer Bills was authorized to be made to as many mercantile persons, giving good security, as should apply for them ; and the confidence which this measure diffused, as well as the increased means which it afforded of obtaining Bank Notes through the sale of the Exchequer Bills, speedily relieved the distress both of London and of the country. Without offering an opinion upon the expediency of the particular mode in which this operation was effected, Your Committee think it an important illustration of the principle, that an enlarged accommodation is the true remedy for that occasional failure of confidence in the country districts, to which our system of paper credit is unavoidably exposed. The circumstances which occurred in the beginning of the year 1/97, were very similar to those of 1793 ; — an alarm of Invasion, a run upon the Country Banks for Gold, the failure of some of them, and a run upon the Bank of England, forming a crisis like that of 1793, for which, perhaps, an effectual remedy might have been provided, if the Bank or England had had courage to extend instead of restricting its accommodations and issue of Notes. Some few persons, it appears from the Report of the Secret Committee of the Lords, were of this opi- nion at the time j and the late Governor and Deputy K 66 REPORT. Governor of the Bank stated to Your Committee (Min. p. 153, 154.) that they, and many of the Directors, are now satisiied, from the experience of the year 1797, that the diminution of their Notes in that emergency increased the public distress : an opinion in the correctness of which Your Committee entirely concur. It appears to Your Committee, that the experience of the Bank of England in the years 1793 and 1797, contrasted with the facts which have been stated in the present Report, suggests a distinction most important to be kept in view, between that demand upon the Bank for Gold for the supply of the domestic channels of cir- culation, sometimes a very great and sudden one, which is occasioned by a temporary failure of confidence, and that drain upon the Bank for Gold which grows out of an unfavourable state of the Foreign Exchanges. The former, while the Bank maintains its high credit, seems likely to be best relieved by a judicious increase of ac- commodation to the Country : the latter, so long as the Bank does not pay in specie, ought to suggest to the Directors a question, whether their issues may not be al- ready too abundant. Your Committee have much satisfaction in thinking, that the Directors are perfectly aware that they may err by a too scanty supply in a period of stagnant credit. And Your Committee are clearly of opinion, that although it ought to be the general policy of the Bank Directors to diminish their paper in the event of the long continuance of a high price of Bullion and a very unfavourable Ex- change, yet it is essential to the commercial interests of this Country, and to the general fulfilment of those mer- cantile engagements which a free issue of paper may have occasioned, that the accustomed degree of accom- modation to the Merchants should not be suddenly and materially reduced ; and that if any general and serious difficulty or apprehension on this subject should arise, it may, in the judgement of Your Committee, be counter- REPORT. 6? acted without danger, and with advantage to the public, by a liberality in the issue of Bank of England paper pro- portioned to the urgency of the particular occasion. Un- der such circumstances, it belongs to the Bank to take likewise into their own consideration, how far it may be practicable, consistently with a due regard to the imme- diate interests of the public service, rather to reduce their paper by a gradual reduction of their advances to Govern- ment, than by too suddenly abridging the discounts to the Merchants. 2. Before Your Committee proceed to detail what they have collected with respect to the amount of Country Bank paper, they must observe, that so long as the Cash payments of the Bank are suspended, the whole paper of the Country Bankers is a superstructure raised upon the foundation of the paper of the Bank of England. The same check, which the convertibility into specie, under a better system, provides against the excess of any part of the paper circulation, is, during the present sy- stem, provided against an excess of Country Bank paper, by its convertibility into Bank of England paper. If an excess of paper be issued in a country district, while the London circulation does not exceed its due proportion, there will be a local rise of prices in that country district, but prices in London will remain as before. Those who have the country paper in their hands will prefer buying in London where things are cheaper, and will therefore return that country paper upon the Banker who issued it, and will demand from him Bank of England Notes or Bills upon London ; and thus, the excess of country paper being continually returned upon the issuers for Bank of England paper, the quantity of the latter necessarily and effectually limits the quantity of the former. This is illus- trated by the Account which has been already given of the excess, and subsequent limitation, of the paper of the Scotch Banks, about the year 1763. If the Bank of England paper itself should at any time, during the su«- K 2 68 REPORT. pension of Cash payments, be issued to excess, a corre- sponding excess may be issued of Country Bank paper which will not be checked; the foundation being enlarged, the superstructure admits of a proportionate exten- sion. And thus, under such a system, the excess of Bank of England paper will produce its effect upon prices not merely in the ratio of its own increase, but in a much higher proportion. It has not been in the power of Your Committee to obtain such information as might enable them to state, with any thing like accuracy, the amount of Country Bank paper in circulation. But they are led to infer from all the Evidence they have been able to procure on this subject, not only that a great number of new Coun- try Banks has been established within these last two years, but also that the amount of issues of those which are of an older standing has in general been very consi- derably increased : whilst on the other hand, the high state of mercantile and public credit,, the proportionate facility of converting at short notice all public and com- mercial securities into Bank of England paper, joined to the preference generally given within the limits of its own circulation to the paper of a well established Coun- try Bank over that of the Bank of England, have pro- bably not rendered it necessary for them to keep any large permanent deposits of Bank of England Paper in their hands. And it seems reasonable to believe, that the total amount of the unproductive stock of all the Country Banks, consisting of specie and Bank of Eng- land paper, is much less at this period, under a circula- tion vastly increased in extent, than it was before the restriction of 1797. The temptation to establish Coun- try Banks, and issue Promissory Notes, has therefore greatly increased. Some conjecture as to the probable total amount of those issues, or at least as to their recent increase, may be formed, as Your Committee conceive, from the amount of the duties paid for stamps on the REPORT. 69 re-issuable notes of Country Banks in Great Britain. The total amount of these duties for the year ended on the 10th of October 1S08, appears to have been £. 60,522. 15. 3. and for the year ended on the 10th of October 1809, £. 175,129. 17. 7. It must, how- ever, be observed, that on the 10th of October 180S, these duties experienced an augmentation somewhat ex- ceeding one-third ; and that some regulations were made, imposing limitations with respect to the re-issue of all notes not exceeding two Pounds two Shillings, the ef- fect of which has been to produce a much more than ordinary demand for stamps or notes of this denomina- tion within the year 1S09. Owing to this circumstance, it appears impossible to ascertain what may have been the real increase in the circulation of the notes, not ex- ceeding two Pounds two Shillings, within the last yearj but with respect to the notes of a higher value, no alte- ration having been made in the Law as to their re-issue, the following Comparison affords the best statement that can be collected from the Documents before the Com- mittee, of the addition made in the year 1809 to the number of those Notes. Number of Country Bank Notes exceeding £. 2. 2. each, stamped in the years ended the 10th of October 1803, and 10th of October 1809, respectively. 1808. 1809- Exceeding £. 2. 2. and not exceeding X. 5. 5. Exceeding £. 5. 5. and not exceeding £. 20. Exceeding £. 20. and not exceeding £. 30. Exceeding £. 30. and not exceeding £. 50. Exceeding £.50. and not exceeding £. 100. No. 666,07 1 198,473 No. 922,073 380,006 2,425 674 2,611 Assuming that the notes in the two first of these classes were all issued for the lowest denomination to which the duties respectively attach, and such as are most com- monly met with in the circulation of country paper, viz. 10 REPORT, Notes of <£. 5. and £. 10. (although in the second class there is a considerable number of <£'. 20.) and even omit- ting altogether from the comparison the Notes of the three last classes, the issue of which Your Committee understands is in fact confined to the chartered Banks of Scotland, the result would be, that, exclusive of any increase in the number of notes under £,.2. 2 s. the amount of Country Bank paper stamped in the year ended the 10th of October 1809, has exceeded that of the year ended on the 10th of October 1803, in the sum of £. 3,095,540. Your Committee can form no posi- tive conjecture as to the amount of Country Bank paper cancelled and withdrawn from circulation in the course of the last year. But considering that it is the interest and practice of the Country Bankers to use the same notes as long as possible ; that, as the law now stands, there is no limitation of time to the re-issuing of those not ex- ceeding £. 2. 2s. ; and that all above that amount are re-issuable for three years from the date of their first issuing ; it appears difficult to suppose that the amount of notes above £. 2. 2s. cancelled in 1809, could be equal to the whole amount stamped in 1 808 : but even upon that supposition, there would still be an increase for 1 809 in the notes of £,, 5, and £. 10. alone, to the amount above specified of ,£.3,095,340., to which must be added an increase within the same period of Bank of England Notes to the amount of about £. 1 ,500,000, mak- ing in the year 1 809, an addition in the whole of between four and five millions to the circulation of Great Britain alone, deducting only the Gold which may have been withdrawn in the course of that year from actual circula- tion, which cannot have been very considerable, and also making an allowance for some increase in the amount of such country paper, as, though stamped, may not be in actual circulation. This increase in the general paper currency in last year, even after these deductions, would probably be little short of the amount which in almost REPORT. 71 any one year, since the discovery of America, has been added to the circulating coin of the whole f Europe. Al- though, as Your Committee has already had occasion to observe, no certain conclusion can be drawn from the numerical amount of paper in circulation, considered abstractedly from all other circumstances, either as to such paper being in excess, or still less as to the propor- tion of such excess ; yet they must remark, that the fact of any very great and rapid increase in that amount, when coupled and attended with all the indications of a depreciated circulation, does afford the strongest con- firmatory evidence, that, from the want of some ade- quate check, the issues of such paper have not been restrained within their proper limits. Y REPORT. 73 mittee in the course of their Enquiry, they have formed an Opinion, which they submit to the House : — That there is at present an excess in the paper circulation of this Country, of which the most unequivocal symptom is the very high price of Bullion, and next to that, the low state of the Continental Exchanges ; that this excess is to be ascribed to the want of a sufficient check and control in the issues of paper from the Bank of England ; and originally, to the suspension of cash payments, which removed the natural and true control. For upon a gene- ral view of the subject, Your Committee are of opinion, that no safe, certain, and constantly adequate provision against an excess of paper currency, either occasional or permanent, can be found, except in the convertibility of , all such paper into specie. Your Committe cannot, there- V fore, but sge reason to regret, that the suspension of cash payments, which, in the most favourable light in which it can be viewed, was only a temporary measure, has been continued so long ; and particularly, that by the manner in which the present continuing Act is framed, the character should have been given to it of a permanent war measure. Your Committee conceive that it would be superfluous to point out, in detail, the disadvantages which must re- sult to the Country, from any such general excess of currency as lowers its relative value. The effect of such an augmentation of prices upon all money transactions for time ; the unavoidable injury suffered by annuitants, and by creditors of every description, both private and public ; the unintended advantage gained by Govern- ment and all other debtors ; are consequences too ob- vious to require proof, and too repugnant to justice to be left without remedy. By far the most important portion of this effect appears to Your Committee to be that which is communicated to the wages of common country labour, the rate of which, it is well known, adapts itself more slowly to the changes which happen in the value 74 REPORT. of money, than the price of any other species of labour or commodity. And it is enough for Your Committee to allude to some classes of the public servants, whose pay, if once raised in consequence of a depreciation of money, cannot so conveniently be reduced again to its former rate, even after money shall have recovered its value. The future progress of these inconveniences and evils, if not checked, must, at no great distance of time, work a practical conviction upon the minds of all those who may still doubt their existence ; but even if their progressive increase were less probable than it appears to Your Committee, they cannot help expressing an opinion, that the integrity and honour of Parliament are concerned, not to authorize, longer than is required by imperious necessity, the continuance in this great com- mercial Country of a system of circulation, in which that natural check or control is absent which maintains the value of money, and, by the permanency of that com- mon standard of value, secures the substantial justice and faith of monied contracts and obligations between man and man. Your Committee moreover beg leave to advert to the temptation to resort to a depreciation even of the value of the Gold coin by an alteration of the standard, to which Parliament itself might be subjected by a great and long continued excess of paper. This has been the resource of many Governments under such circum- stances, and is the obvious and most easy remedy to the evil in question. But it is unnecessary to dwell on the breach of public faith and dereliction of a primary duty of Government, which would manifestly be implied in preferring the reduction of the coin down ta the standard of the paper, to the restoration of the paper to the legal standard of the coin. Your Committee therefore, having very anxiously and deliberately considered this subject, report it to the House, as their Opinion, That the system of the cir. REPORT. 75 culating medium of this Country ought to be brought back, with as much speed as is compatible with a wise and necessary caution, to the original principle of Cash payments at the option of the holder of Bank paper. Your Committee have understood that remedies, or ives, of a different nature, have been projected ; such as, a compulsory limitation of the amount of Bank a -ancs and discounts, during the continuance of the nsion ; or, a compulsory limitation, during the same J iod, of the rate of Bank profits and dividends, by ing the surplus of profits above that rate to the pub- ;ount. But, in the judgment of Your Committee, Indirect schemes, for palliating the possible evils resulting from the suspension of cash payments, would wholly inadequate for that purpose, because the i iry proportion could never be adjusted, and, if once fixed, might aggravate very much the inconveni- encies of a temporary pressure ; and even if their efficacy could be made to appear, they would be objectionable as a most hurtful and improper interference with the rights of commercial property. According to the best judgment Your Committee has been enabled to form, no sufficient remedy for the pre- sent, or security for the future, can be pointed out, e Repeal of the Law which suspends the Cash Payments of the Bank of England. In effecting so important a change, Your Committee are of opinion that some difficulties must be encountered, and that there are i ome contingent dangers to the Bank, 1st which it ought most carefully and strongly to be guarded. But all those maybe effectually provided for, by intrusting to the discretion of the Bank itself the s of conducting and completing the operation, and by allowing to the Bank so ample a period of time for conducting it, as will be more than sufficient to effect its completion. To the discretion, experience, and inte"ritv of the Directors of the Bank, Your Committee believe 76 REPORT. that Parliament may safely intrust the charge of effect- ing that which Parliament may in its wisdom determine upon as necessary to be effected ; and that the Directors of that great institution, far from making themselves a party with those who have a temporary interest in spread- ing alarm, will take a much longer view of the perma- nent interests of the Bank, as indissolubly blended with those of the Public. The particular mode of gradually effecting the resumption of cash payments ought there- fore, in the opinion of Your Committee, to be left in a great measure to the discretion of the Bank, and Par- liament ought to do little more than to fix, definitively, the time at which cash payments are to become as before compulsory. The period allowed ought to be ample, in order that the Bank Directors may feel their way, and that, having a constant watch upon the varying cir- cumstances that ought to guide them, and availing them- selves only of favourable circumstances, they may tread back their steps slowly, and may preserve both the course of their own affairs as a Company, and that of public and commercial credit, not only safe but unembarrassed. With this view, Your Committee would suggest, that the Restriction on Cash payments cannot safely be re- moved at an earlier period than two years from the pre- sent time ; but Your Committee are of opinion, that early provision ought to be made by Parliament for ter- minating, by the end of that period, the operation of the several Statutes which have imposed and continued that restriction. In suggesting this period of two years, Your Com • mittee have not overlooked the circumstance, that, as the law stands at present, the Bank would be compelled to pay in cash at the end of six months after the ratifica- tion of a definitive Treaty of Peace ; so that if Peace were to be concluded within that period, the recommen- dation of Your Committee might seem to have the effect of postponing, instead of accelerating, the resumption of REPOKI. 77 payments. But Your Committee are of opinion, that if Peace were immediately to be ratified, in the present state of our circulation it would be most hazardous to compel the Bank to pay cash in six months, and would be found wholly impracticable. Indeed, the restoration of Peace, by opening new fields of commercial enterprise, would multiply instead of abridging; the demands upon the Bank for discount, and would render it peculiarly di- stressing to the commercial world if the Bank were sud- denly and materially to restrict their issues. Your Com- mittee are therefore of opinion, that even if Peace should intervene, two years should be given to the Bank for resuming its payments ; but that even if the War should be prolonged, Cash payments should be resumed by the end of that period. Your Committee have not been indifferent to the consideration of the possible occurrence of political cir- cumstances, which may be thought hereafter to furnish an argument in favour of some prolongation of the pro- posed peiiod of resuming cash payments, cr even in favour of a new law for their temporary restriction after the Bank shall have opened. They are, however, far from anticipating a necessity, even in any case, of re- turning to the present system. But if occasion for a new measure of restriction could be supposed at any time to arise, it can in no degree be grounded, as Your Committee think, on any state of the Foreign Exchanges, (which they trust that they have abundantly shown the Bank itself to have the general power of controlling,) but on a political state of things producing, or likely very soon to produce, an alarm at home, leading to so indefinite a demand for cash for domestic uses as it must be impossible for any Banking establishment to provide against. A return to the ordinary system of Banking is, on the very ground of the late extravagant fall of the Exchanges and high price of Gold, peculiarly requisite. That alone can effectually restore general confidence in the value of the circulating medium of the kingdom ; 78 REPORT. and the serious expectation of this event must enforce a preparatory reduction of the quantity of paper, and all other measures which accord with the true principles of Banking. The anticipation of the time when the Bank will be constrained to open, may also be expected to contribute to the improvement of the Exchanges ; where- as a postponement of this era, so indefinite as that of six months after the termination of the War, and especially in the event of an Exchange continuing to fall, (which more and more would generally be perceived to arise from an excess of paper, and a consequent depreciation of it) may lead, under an unfavourable state of public affairs, to such a failure of confidence (and especially among foreigners) in the determination of Parliament to enforce a return to the professed standard of the measure of payments, as may serve to precipitate the further fall of the Exchanges, and lead to consequences at once the most discreditable and disastrous. Although the details of the best mode of returning to cash payments ought to be left to the discretion of the Bank of England, as already stated, certain provisions would be necessary, under the authority of Parliament, both for the convenience of the Bank itself, and for the security of the other Banking establishments in this Country and in Ireland. Your Committee conceive it may be convenient for the Bank to be permitted to issue Notes under the value of £,. 5. for some little time after it had resumed pay- ments in specie. It will be convenient also for the Chartered Banks of Ireland and Scotland, and all the Country Banks, that they should not be compelled to pay in specie until some time after the resumption of payments in Cash by the Bank of England ; but that they should continue for a short period upon their present footing, of being liable to pay their own notes on demand in Bank of England paper. APPENDIX. MINUTES of EVIDENCE. APPENDIX. MINUTES of EVIDENCE Taken before the Select Committee appointed to en- quire into the Cause of the High Price of GOLD BULLION, and to take into consideration the Stateo the Circulating Medium, and of the Exchanges be- tween Great Britain and Foreign Parts. Jovis, 22° die Felruarii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Aaron Asher Goldsmid, Esq. Partner in the House of Mocatta and Goldsmid, Bullion Brokers; called in, and Examined. WHAT is the present price of Gold ? — £. 4. 10. standard Gold; foreign Gold coin is comparatively higher. On what account ? — Being more saleable in foreign coun- tries, on account of its being more portable. Do you mean it is higher in proportion to its intrinsic va- lue ? — Yes. On what account? — Being more saleable in the state of coin on the Continent, and of there being more markets for Gold in coin than in bars. What is the difference between the price of Gold in foreign coin and Gold in bars ? — The present difference between Spa- nish and Portugal Gold in coin and Gold in bars is about 2s. per oz. ; it varies considerably with the demands of the dif- ferent markets, but generally the price of foreign Gold coin is higher than bar Gold ; that is to say, doubloons being now (B) (S) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [A. A. Goldsmtd. £.4. 8. per. oz. and Portugal Gold £. 4. 12., Gold in bars would be worth j£\ 4. 12. whereas the present price is £. 4. 10. per oz. Portugal Gold is about the same fineness as our standard. What is the fineness of Spanish Gold coin ? — From 4£ to 4| grains worse than standard, making about As. difference in value. What, is the difference between any other foreign Gold coin and Gold in bar ? — Those two being the most current articles, it would be best to have them as the criterion. What is the fineness of ducats and French Gold coin ? — Dutch ducats better 6 grains, louis d'ors worse \\ grain, and napoleons the same. in what degree are these current articles of traffic ? — Perhaps louis d'ors and napoleon d'ors are the most current of the three; neither frederick d'ors nor Dutch ducats are much seen. State the difference between the value of these articles in the shape of coin, and Bullion of the same fineness. — They have at present no extrinsic value as coin. What do you conceive to be the reason why Spanish and Portugal coin is higher than bar Gold at present, and not French and Dutch coin ? — There is a greater variety of mar- kets in the present circumstances for Spanish and Portugal coin than for French and Dutch. How long has the price of Bullion or foreign Gold coin been what you have stated ? — The prices fluctuated considerably in the course of last year, but have been unusually high for about a year and half. How much have they fluctuated ? — I think about six or seven shillings ; never above one or two shillings higher than they are at present. Can you state what tables are the most perfect in your judg- ment ? — Those published by Wettenhall are likely to be cor- rect ; they are made from our reports to the person who fur- nishes him with the prices. Is that price derived by Wettenhall from the information of others, or only from your reports to him ? — From ours alone. Are those prices always real prices taken from actual trans- actions, or are they ever only nominal ? — Always the real prices. A.A.&oldsmhl.} MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. ($) In what manner do you form a statement of the price ?—*• There is never but one price for Gold and Silver Bullion. Can you always buy and sell at the prices, or nearly so, which you report ?— When there is not enough done to con- stitute a market, no prices are printed ; as will frequently be seen in the List. What amount of sales constitutes a market for that pur- pose ? — No precise quantity, but always a quantity of some consideration. How often are these Lists published ? — On Tuesdays and Fridays. Have not you, in various instances, found that you could neither buy nor sell at the prices quoted by yon in the Lists ? — Enough was always doing at the time of their being- printed, or previously to that, to constitute a market. Have the prices been marked latterly ? — The price of dol- lars has, and very latelv the prices of dollars and doubloons. Has the price of Gold in bar been quoted lately ? — I am not certain. Why has it not ? — Because the transactions in bar Gold can only be made at stated times. It is necessary, previously to the permission from Government to export Gold in bars, that the proprietors should swear, before the Court of Aldermen, tli at it is melted from foreign coin ; and it is consequently only at the period of that Court's fessefnbling that any considerable quantity of bar Gold can be bought or sold. Is not the Court of Aldermen open every week at least for that purpose? — The time of its meeting in sufficient number* is, 1 believe, uncertain. Is that the only reason why the price of Gold in bars has not been quoted latterly in the List ?— Yes. During the period that the price of Gold in bars has not been quoted latterly, has there or not been enough to consti- tute a market? — 1 should think not. In how long a period ? — About five weeks or longer ; but if the prices of any description of Gold were quoted, it nearly answers the same purpose as if the prices of other description* of Gold were quoted. Has there been during the sanr: period Gold enough in the (B8) (4) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [A. A. Goldsmid. market to answer the demand ? — We endeavour to regulate the price so as to proportion the d< mand to the supply. Have the sales of Gold been for some time past considerable? — Yes, certainly. Can you specify the extent for the last fifteen months? — I cannot from memory. Can you furnish that information by referring to the account of sales ? — Such information can be procured from the books of the Bullion Office in the Bank ; all our sales are through the medium of that office. Have you not frequently transactions both of purchase and sale with individuals, in which the Bank is not concerned ? — There are many transactions in which the Bank is not con- cerned ; but they are all inserted in a book in the bullion Office. For what reason are they so inserted? — I believe that they have been so since the establishment of the Bank. Was it in order that the Bank might be apprized of the transactions, and regulate their proceedings accordingly? — Possibly. State in detail the mode in which such a transaction is made with an individual. — The Bullion is received from one indivi- dual and delivered to another at the price fixed by us ; and the whole of the transaction is recorded in the books of the Bul- lion Office in the Bank, with the names of the parties,, the amount sold, and the price. Is not every quantity of bar Gold, which by your interven- tion passes from one individual to another, deposited for some time in the Bank, and assayed there? — Yes. Have you not, in certain cases, bought and sold Gold with- out the intervention of the Bullion Office in the Bank at all ? — None. Can you state about what quantity of Gold you have bought and sold for the last 15 months, and paiticularly during the latter part of them ? — I cannot from memory ; I could state it to the Committee from mv books, or it might be obtained by reference to the bullion Office in the Bank. During that period has the quantity been greater than usual? — ^Yes ; during the last 15 months, greater than on an average A. A. Goldsmid.] minutes of evidence. (5) of years, though some years ago a much greater quantity was imported than has lately been exported. Have your sales, during the period in question, been con- fined to individuals, or has the Bank been a purchaser? — In- dividuals have been the purchasers of large quantities of Gold at the present hiyh price. Are there any other Brokers in the same line besides your house?— Our house has been solely employed since the year 169-4, at the establishment of ihe bank. Are there any other dealers in Gold but yours? — I appre- hend none of considerable amount. Are there others recorded in the Bullion Office in the Bank like yours ? — None. What is the rate, of brokerage? — One-eighth per cent, to each party. If the other transactions in the sale of Gold were consider- able, do you consider that the Bank could procure information of those in order to regulate their proceedings in the manner spoken of in a former answer? — 1 hey are not considerable; but what the Bank would do in case they were considerable I cannot tell. Do those other transactions contribute to form the price?— I think not at all. From whom in general do you receive the Gold which you sell ? — I think thai during the last year the chief- imports have been from the West Indies, principally in doubloons. Do you receive ihem from the Wtst-Ind. a merchants ? — Yes. Are they not principally Jamaica merchants ? — Yes. From what other quarters have you received any material quantity of Gold in the last fifteen months? — From Bullion retail dealers in this country, who collect them in smali quan- tities and sell them to us in the wholesale. Has much been received from the continent of Europe? I believe none : I judge so by no continental merchants bein? sellers to us. Within the period in question, what quantity of Gold coin from European mints have you received ?— 1 cannot distin- guish, the marks of many coins beim: the same. Can you account lor the large importation of Gold coin from the Wen Indies ? — In consequence of the price of Gold (6) minutes of evidence. [A. A. Goldvntd. being so h'gh here, it is more advantageous to make the re* turn in Bullion than in bills. Can you state the whole charge of transmitting Gold Bullion from Jamaica here, including freight, insurance, &c. ? — Not accurately. Mas there been any importation of Gold from the United States of America within the period of 15 months we have been speaking of? — •} believe none. In saying that no Gold has come from the continent of Europe, do you mean to say none lias come, from Portugal or Spain ? — 1 omitted to mention that some French Gold and Portugal Gold has been imported from Portugal. Was that to any considerable amount? — I think compara- tively not. Has any quantity come from the Brazils ? — Gold has lately been sent over to the Brazils. Has not Silver also been sent over? — Yes. Was not the Brazils some years ago a considerable source from whence we derived our Gold ? — It was not directly, but through Lisbon. What is the cause of this change ? — The balance of trade being inverted. Is there no other cause of this change but the balance of trade having heen inverted ? — I judge not. Supposing a loan to be made here for the Court of Brazil, and that loan was remitted to the Brazils, would it not produce the effect to which you before alluded r — If remitted in Gold, it would remedy the balance to the amount of the sum sent. Do vou know whether in point of fact Gold has been re- mitted from this Country to the Brazils on account of a loan? — When I said the balance of trade was inverted, I spoke of the general balance, unable to distinguish between the opera- tions of Government and the transactions of individuals. How long is it since the change first took place of Gold being sent from this Country to the Brazils, instead of our re- ceiving it from thence? — I cannot slate accurately; but I do not believe that the operation of the Brazilian merchants has had any very important effect upon the price of Gold : I will endeavour to ascertain for the information of the Committee the date of that change. A.A.Goldsmid'] minutes op evidence. (-) Are you in the habit of selling Bullion which has been melted down from the light coin of this Country ? — We have not sold any such lately ; and we never sell any Gold in bars for exportation, unless melted in the presence of two win, and sworn off before the Court of Aldermen. What becomes of the bar Gold produced from the light coin ?— I am not aware of any being melted at present. In the answer before the last, do you mean to say, that what is imported in bars is also melted down in this country ? — Almost always, if purchasers are not contented with the manner of melting in foreign countries. Do you get Gold from Africa? — Not in considerable quan- tities : I beg to state in general that we cannot ascertain always from what source the Gold comes, as the Bullion Dealei lect it in small quantities before they bring it to us. Have vou reason to know whether any light guineas arc; melted down? — No; but an account of the source ot' the Gold in bars might be obtained of the Bank meltcrs. Does the Bank still refuse light guineas ? — I believe they do. Dues that refusal throw more Gold into the Bullion ma — 1 don't think lately it has had any material effect. Do vou consider your house as hiving a considerable con- trol over the Bullion market, so as to fix the price ? — Not so as to raise or depress it above or below its natural I Are there any other Gold melters, besides those who melt for the Bank ? — There are. Within the period of fifteen months which has been spoken of, has anv bar Gold been in the market ? — Ye s. From what source was that derived ; was it from coin of this country or foreign coin ? — From foreign coin and Gold in bars and dust imported from other countries. If Gold in the shape of foreign coin is of more value than according to its intrinsic value, what is the reason of any being melted into bars ?— Because foreign Gold coin is fre- quently imported here when it is not fit for circulation ; and frequently small quantities of different descriptions, to which rny former observations are not applicable. At the present price of Bullion, how much must be paid in Bank of England notes for a bar of Gold in weight and fioenetf equal to 100 guineas sterling ?- No distinction is (8) minutes of evidence. [A. A. Goldsmid. taken whether the payment is made in bank notes or coin ; in sterling money the calculation is easily made ; in the propor- tion of £. 3. 17- 1.04- to £. 4. 10. Do you apprehend that the political state of Spain and Por- tugal has contributed towards bringing South American Gold to England through the West-India Islands ? — I think it not improbable. Do you or any of your Partners deal in the articles you sell ? —-Certainly not. Veneris, 23° Februarii, J 8 10. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Aaron Asher Goldsmid, Esq again called in, and Examined. YOU have stated yesterday, that Spanish and Portugal coin have at present an extrinsic value as coin, but that the same is not true at present of French or Dutch Gold coin : If it be true that Gold remittances are now made to France for the purchase of corn, from what cause does it arise that a similar agio upon French Gold coin does not exist ? — Perhaps from the market being more limited, and the competition being consequently less. But even upon the supposition that no competition existed, ought not a premium upon French Gold, equal at least to the expense of the coinage, to exist ? — I should think so. But at this moment no such agio does exist ? — No. Explain what you mean by the competition being less. — When there have lately been transactions in French Gold, they have generally been less than the occasional transactions in Gold in bars, and consequently the competition of merchants who have extensive dealings has been less j transactions in large quantities have frequently, under the present circum- stances, more the effect of raising than of depressing the price. State to what description of persons your sales of Gold are generally made. — Latterly the most considerable sales of Gold have been made to Dutch and French merchants. Do you mean both of Gold in bars and Gold in coin ? — Of all descriptions of Gold. A.A.Goldsmid.] minutes of evidence. (9) Can you state whether these purchases have been made by them, and with a view to exportation? — Yes ; they have beeri made with a view u> export. Have you reason to know that all or nearly all the Gold so sold to them has been exported? — Yes. What quantity or' Gold have you sold for home consump- tion? — A very inconsiderable quantity of Gold in proportion to the whole amount. Can you state what proportion? — I cannot precisely; but it is very inconsiderable. What proportion does it bear to Gold sold for home con- sumption in former years? — Perhaps about the same. Is the Gold which is sold for home consumption sold to those who themselves make use of it ? — Yes; or those who sell it by retail to others. Is it seldom or never the practice to purchase Gold as a speculation, and retain it with a view to be sold at home at a higher price? — Seldom or never. Is it all sold for ready money ? — Yes. Are you acquainted with the means which arc taken for the exportation of Gold to foreign countries? — No. Do you apprehend that it £oes in large quantities an article of merchandize, or in small sums ? — I think the merchants find it necessary to use great caution to procure its ingress to the Continent. Are the sales of Gold which vou make, generally made in large quantities to individuals? — There are several individuals who purchase. What may be the common amount of a sale to an indivi- dual ? — The amount varies considerably. State the larger and smaller. — Perhaps from a hundred ounces to five thousand ounces. Could you state the quantity sold in the last month ? — I cannot; but I do not think the sales have been so considerable as they were a few months ago. State the largest for anv month recently, as near as you can recollect. — Perhaps thirty or forty thousand, or perhaps fifty thousand pounds sterling or more in a month; perhaps eighty thousand or more in one month. What month are you particularly alluding to ? — Perhaps (c) (10) minutes of evidence. [A. A. Goldsmid. four, five, or six months ago, and therefore I speak so vaguely upon the subject : the price of Gold began to advance rapidly since the last eighteen months. Do you know of your own knowledge, or from any un- questionable authority, what may be the expence, including insurance, of transporting Gold to any neighbouring ports-of the Continent? — T do not know precisely; but I do not believe that they considerably exceed the expences of former times. Do you mean the expences of former times of peace or of war? — Of former times, of war. Can you state what is the difference between war and peace in that respect; how much per cent. ? — I cannot. You do not know the rate of insurance ? — I believe it is about three guineas. Is that the whole expence, excepting freight ? — I know of no other expence. Do you know what the freight is ? — I do not ; I believe there is no specific freight. Can you state whether the consumers of Gold obtain that article in considerable quantities from any other sources than your own sales ? — I cannot with any degree of certainty. Do you know in what manner the goldsmiths in the country are supplied?— I believe from the refiners in town, but I am not certain. Can you state at all what proportion of the Gold you sell may be for home consumption ? — I cannot. Is it less than a tenth ? — It is less than a twentieth, but I cannot state precisely the amount. Is not all the Gold produced by melting the light coin used ■up by the refiners ? — It cannot be exported. Are you not subject to some deception in that respect ; may not it be melted and offered to you ? — I have stated, that pre- viously to its being exported it is to be sworn off before the Court of Aldermen that it has been melted from foreign coirj or foreign Gold in bars. Are the merchants to whom you sell, merchants particularly devoted to that trade ? — There are no merchants solely devoted to the Bullion trade. Are there not some who follow that trade much more than others r — Yes. A. A. Goldsmid."] minutes op evidence. (11) Have they been accustomed long to follow that particular trade, or has the trade fallen into new hands?— It has fallen into several new hands. What description of new hands-, persons of greater or less consequence ? — Generally speaking, persons of about the same standing. Equally old houses? — Yes; persons of about the same standing and credit, generally speaking. Are they both import and export merchants ? — I believe they are. Can you state any particular articles in return for which Gold has been sent abroad ? — One particular object came under my observation, which was, the importation of corn from France and Flanders ; but I have no doubt that there were many other objects. Do you understand that when Gold is sent abroad, it gene- rally accompanies any other particular articles of export, or generally brings back any articles of import more preferable to others? — No, I believe it does not. You have stated, that the expence of introducing Gold now to the Continent you think to be nearly the same as during any other period of war ? — I do not believe I have stated the expence of introducing it to the Continent, for of that I am not aware. When you stated the expence of transporting Gold to the Continent being not much more at present than in former times, did you mean to include the whole expence of getting it into the Continent and delivering it to a foreign consignee? — No, I am not acquainted with the amount of that expence; what I stated before was only the expence of carrying it to the foreign shore. Arc you aware that it is liable to confiscation, as a commo- dity coming from England ? — I believe that all commodities coming from England are liable to confiscation. Can you then estimate the value of such a risk ? — I do not believe that in an article like Gold it is by any means consi- derable ; for I believe that at a trifling premium it can be in- sured into the hands of the consignee. Do you know the amount of that premium ? — I do not ; but I have understood it to be inconsiderable, (C«) (12) aiixNUTES of evidence. [A. A. Goldimid. Could you procure an insurance to be effected, for example, from London to Hamburgh or from London to Amsterdam, including the risk of safe delivery into the hands of the con- signee, at ten guineas per cent. ? — I do not know the precise amount of the premium, but I have no doubt it could be done for very considerably less. Can you state what the premium upon such a risk would be? — I cannot state precisely. Can you state the freight? — I cannot; when I say that the insurance would probably not exceed three percent., I am only speaking under present circumstances; that since the report of the incorporation of Holland, the risk is probably considered as increased. You have stated, thai it has come to vour knowledge that Gold has been sent to Flanders and to France for the purpose of purchasing corn? — Yes, it has. What means, have you had to obtain that information? — By the information of some of the purchasers of Bullion. Is it a common practice for the purchasers of Bullion to inform you for what purpose it is to be applied? — I do not speak of the common practice, but I state this as one parti- cular instance. Are the Committee to understand that you in this respect speak only of a particular instance ? — I speak of some reasons tor the exportation of Bullion having come to my knowledge vu this occasion, which may not always be the ease. You have stated, that it has come within your knowledge that Gold has been sent to France and to Flanders in payment of grain ; has it come within your knowledge that Gold has been sent to any other parts of the continent of Europe? — To se- veral other parts of the Continent ; to Holland particularly, and some small part to Spain; perhaps to Hamburgh. Whether you can form an opinion of the proportions of the Gold which has been sent to the places on the Continent that you have mentioned ? — I think that Holland is the place to which by far the greatest quantity of Gold has been sent. What proportion does that bear to the Gold which has been sent to France ? — I cannot state the precise proportion, but I think that considerably more Gold has been sent to Holland than to France. A. A. Golds mid.] minutes of evidence. (13) Was it double the quantity ? — I cannot specify. Can you mention the proportion? or Gold which have been sent to Amsterdam and to Hamburgh ?— No, I cannot ; the same merchants frequently trading to both place.-., it is not ia rnv power accurately to ascertain. Whether you believe that any part of the Gold which has been sent to Holland and to France has been sent in payment for anv articles brought into this country from places in the Baltic ? — I do not know. Do you know whether any Gold has been sent to Denmark, to Prussia, or to Russia? — I do not; but I think that the greatest mart for Gold on the Continent, as I said before, is Holland. Do you know that there was any extra demand for Gold in consequence of the -Expedition to Walcheren ? — I do not think that there was, as far as my recollection serves. Have you any opinion of the quantity of Gold which was taken out of the country in consequence of the Expedition to Walcheren ? — I do not think that it was considerable. Do yon know the value of the grain that has been imported of late from France into this country ? — I do not. Whether the amount of Gold sent to France in payment for grain was very considerable, as far as comes within your own knowledge ? — I do not know. Have you any reason to know whether any considerable quantity of the coin of this country may have been melted for the purposes of exportation ? — I know nothing of the kind. Or have been exported 'i — I know nothing of it, except from reports in t he newspapers. You have said, there are a variety of new markets for Gold; since what time? — I said not new markets, but new purchasers. Do not you conceive that Gold of a value greater than J?. 500,000 has been exported within the course of the last twelve months ? — I cannot speak precisely with respect to amounts, but I think it has exceeded that. Do not vou conceive that the export of Gold exceeded a million of money in value during the last twelve months ? — I do not think so. Have you at any time drawn a calculation between the quantity which has been imported and received by you as im- (14) minutes of evidence. [A. A. Goldsmid, ported, and the quantity exported by you within the last twelve months ? — I have not. Gould you, in as far as you are able to ascertain the sources of the Gold which you receive, and the application of the Gold which you sell, be enabled to form such a comparison ? — Much time might be occupied in the attempt, and I am not certain whether it could be clone with any degree of accuracy. Do you conceive that the quantity of Gold exported does considerably exceed that which has been imported in the last twelve months ? — I should not conjecture that it does ; it is really impossible to say; it does not always come immediately into our possession from the person who imported it. Has the quantity of Gold sent to Spain been considerable ? — T think not. Has there been any sent up the Mediterranean ? — Not in considerable quantities. Or to the East Indies ? — No. You have stated, that you know circumstances of Gold having been sent to France aud Flanders for the purchase of grain ; do you know of any circumstances where Gold ex- ported has been exclusively so applied ? — I cannot say that it has been exclusively so. Do you know of any case in which it has in any degree been applied to the purchase of grain ?-^I cannot speak to the amount. Does it happen to be in the course of your experience, to know in general for what purposes Gold is to be applied which passes through your hands ? — I only spoke of particular in- stances. Then you do not mean to state that it is the practice to send Gold to the Continent for the purchase of any specific com- modities ? — Certainly I do not. Do you know if, during the last two yea' 1 ?, the exports of Gold have exceeded the imports in a greater proportion than in former years ? — I cannot say ; it is impossible for me to form an estimate of the imports. You have said, it is necessary to take great precaution to procure the ingress of Gold into the Continent ? — I said, Jt believe, that some precautions are necessary. Is there any other difficulty than that arising from the de- jt.J.Goldsmid.'] minutes of evidence. (15) crees of Bonaparte r — T should suppose those decrees to con- stitute the difficulty. As it is not the usual practice for persons buying Gold to inform vou as to the purposes to which that Gold will be ap- plied, do you inter from such information having been given you on a recent occasion as to ihe purchase of grain, that the. purchase of grain must have been to an unusual amount ? — I sec no reason to draw th;u: conclusion. From -a hat you have stated about the exportation of specie to the Continent for com, I understand you to have confined yourself to Gold ? — I have. From what data is it that you have been led to observe this exportation of Gold for corn r — I have not stated that the case was generally so ; 1 have only spoke of one or two instances that came under my observation. How late are those? — I think about three or four months ago. Were those instances numerous enough to induce you to believe that there was any considerable exportation of Gold for the purchase of corn? — The instances that came under my observation were not sufficiently numerous. Within your experience, do you remember any former pe- riod at which your attention was called to a similar circum- stance, of Gold being exported for corn? — No, I do not. Were those persons from whom you received information that the Gold they purchased from you was to be sent out for corn, dealers in corn ? — In one*iustance they were. Can vou form any guess, what proportion the corn im- ported lately, bore to the other commodities for which Gold tvas exported ? — I cannot. Do you know whether any Gold was sent to Holland for com? I have already said I do not know the purposes for which Gold was sent to Holland. You have stated, that all descriptions of Gold had been bought from you with a view to exportation, and that almost all the Gold that you have sold lately was to be exported ? — Vies. How much of that Gold do you conceive to have bten of the description of foreign Gold, or of Gold from the coin of this country ? — We are careful not to sell any Gold for expor- tation whieh is not either in foreign coin or in bar.-, sworn off before the Court of Aldermen, as I have already stated. (16) MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. [4. A '. GflMsmH. Do you know whether it is the exporter himself who 'swears to the description of Gold before the Court of Aldermen ? — It is the seller. Is it part of his affidavit that he is the owner ? — Yes, it is„ As far as you know from your own transactions, is the ex- portation of Gold in few hands, or divided among many ? — It certainly is not divided into so many hands as the market for Silver Bullion. Can you state neariv the number of the class of persons who have dealings of that sort with you ? — There are perhaps from ten to twenty merchants who have lately been chiefly exporters ; about twenty. As far as you know, is it generally the same persons that purchase from you who export, or are there any middle dealers between you and the exporters ? — We sell directly to persons who export. Have you any knowledge of the quantity of Gold, pur- chased through your means, that goes into the country or to the outports ? — I have not. Can you state any information or opinion to the Committee, of the probable amount of the illicit exportation of Gold ? — I have no means whatever. Have you any knowledge of instances of Gold being seized when about to be exported ? — I believe that there was oiv: in- stance of Gold being about to be exported without a regular licence, but whether the objection was in form or an endea- vour to evade it altogether I don't know. Was that to any considerable amount? — I believe it was to some considerable amount. Can you give the Committee any information as to what amount of Gold may have been carried out of this country by the masters of neutral and other foreign ships? — I have no means of knowing the ships by which it is conveyed. Do you happen to know whether any of those who purchase Gold from you, supply the masters of such vessels ? — I do not. Do you know whether there has been any export of Gold to other parts of America, north or south, than to the Brazils? I do not ; I do not believe that there has. Do you know any instance of Gold having been seized, on its arrival in France or Holland ? — I do not : I believe it is on • A.A.Goldsmid.} minutes of evidence. (17) account of its greater facility of access that Gold is preferred as an article of export. Do you know of any Gold having been exported to the Bra- zils ? — It has been frequently bought by merchants trading to the Brazils, for the purpose of exporting to the Brazils. Can you put the Committee in possession of any informa- tion with regard to the quantity of Gold which formerly was sent from the Brazils to Portugal? — No; but considerable quantities were formerly sent from Lisbon to this country, and I suppose, as I said yesterday, that they came from the Brazils. Are you able to state about what quantity annually used to come from Lisbon to this country} — I cannot. Had you ever had any information from the Brazil mer- chants, that they bought it to send to the Brazils? — Yes, re- peatedly. Have you remarked, that as the quantity of bank notes has increased, Gold has got proportionally dearer? — Not per- ceiving that the increase or decrease of bank notes has any connexion with, or influence upon, the price of Gold, we have paid no attention to that subject. You have stated, that an unfavourable exchange takes mo- ney out of the country at present? — Yes; and that there are other circumstances. You have already stated the difference between Gold which is our standard, and bank paper, to be as between £. 3. 17. 10-. to i£\ 4. 10., or nearly 16 per cent. : if a person therefore at Hamburgh sends over a bill for a hundred guineas, how is it paid ? — I stated that the difference between the market and the mint price was about 16 per cent., but I did not make any distinction between bank paper and the coin ; the bill can be paid either by the exportation of Gold and Silver or other commodities, or the purchase of a bill here. The simple question I ask is this; If I take a bill from Hamburgh, drawn upon London for a hundred guineas, in what does the acceptor pay me ? — It is in his power to pay either in coin or in bank notes, or in any other commodity which you conceive to be of an adequate value. In point of fact, what can I demand of him ? — I suppose that bank notes are a legal tender. (») (18) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [S. T. BtTl/lS. This being paid in paper, what must I do to get Gold for the further traffic of my correspondent? — If it is your design to export Gold, you certainly must purchase it either in foreign coin or in Gold in bars melted from foreign coin, or foreign bars of Gold. If with a hundred English guineas at Hamburgh you wish to purchase a bill upon London, what sterling amount would you consider yourself entitled to have that bill for at present? — It is necessary to calculate the rate of exchange between this country and Hamburgh before I can answer that question. If then, in the first iiastance, he could receive Gold, would he not give 16 per cent, more in exchange ? — He certainly would, if he could receive Gold with the liberty to export it. So that if bank paper and Gold exchanged, even the cur- rency to the foreigner would be 16 per cent, better, would it not? — If a person were at liberty to export English Gold, he certainly would get 16 per cent, more than if he exported foreign Gold. Sabbatl, 24° die Felruarii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Samuel Thomas Binns, Esq. called in, and Examined. WHAT are you ? — I belong to the house of William and Jacob Wood, successors to Messrs. Binns and Wood ; lam not a partner in the house, but manage the concerns of it for the representatives of William and Jacob Wood. What is the particular line of dealings of that house ? — In all kinds of Bullion. Do you deal in the import and export of Bullion ? — We do not export Bullion, nor import it. Describe generally the particular nature of your trade. — People bring Bullion to our house for sale, and some come to buy; when we have any quantity of foreign coin we apply to the brokers, who sell it for us. You purchase foreign coin and Bullion on your own ac- count, to sell to those who come to you to purchase, but are S. T.Binns.'] minutes of evidence. ^ (19) not merely intermediate brokers between the purchaser and seller ? — No. Are the sales of the house considerable in the course of a year ? — Not very considerable. Does the business of the house make you acquainted in any considerable degree with the general state of the Bullion trade ? — No ; full weight coins we sell as we receive, but light coin we melt into bars. Do you speak of foreign coins only ? — At present. How do you fix the price at which yon buy? — There is always a market price for coins of every description. How do you judge what is the market priee? — We enquire of the brokers. What brokers ? — Mocatta and Goldsmid. It is their judgement alone you take as to the price? — Their price is what we sell at; their price rules our price completely. Do you buy British coin? — Light coins ; a few, not many. Are there many other persons in the same line with your- self? — There are several others I believe, but I am not ac- quainted with them. .Have you bought any British coins lately? — Some few, not many. Do you know of any full weight British coin having been sold lately I — No. From whom do you usually buy Gold ? — When any person brings Gold to our house we buy it, but we know not of whom. Do you mean, that they are strangers who bring it ? — In general. Do they bring it in bars, or in foreign coin ? — In general in coin ; some few bars. Is it very much the same persons who come to you with foreign coins and bars to seil ? — There are many persons who come, who we know nut from one time to another. How is it ascertained by you, that that which is brought in bars has not been melted from English com ? — I know not any means of ascertaining it. Do you know most of the persons who bring Gold of that description? — We do not. To whom do you sell that Gold ? — To various persons. (D2) (20) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [S. T. B'milS. Do you know the buyers? — Yes. Do you always know the buyers ?— Their persons, but not their names at all times. Nor their residences ? — No. What descriptions of persons are they in general ; mer- chants ? — Button-makers, and china-dealers or persons em- ployed in gilding china, and jewellers. You suppose that Gold to be used iu home manufacture? — Yes. Those are the chief purchasers from you ? — Yes, they are. Do you assay the Gold which is brought to you? — Yes. You always assay it yourself? — Yes, any quantity. Ts it by assaying you know from what it is produced ? — No, we cannot tell from what it is produced. Have you no means of judging from what a Gold bar brought to you has been produced? — I have not; I should observe, I have been something short of fifteen months in the business, and am not very well acquainted with it. Is there any person in the house more acquainted with it than yourself? — No, there is only a lad of fifteen years of age. Do you know the price of Gold in the standard bar now? — I believe the last price of standard Gold is 90s. per ounce. The price of Portugal coin? — Ninety-two shillings per ounce. Gold for exportation commands a higher price than that which cannot be sworn off. How much higher? — That is uncertain, it depends upon the state of the market, what quantity there is. What is the difference at present? — As nearly as I can tell, about 35. an ounce. When you speak of 90s. as the present price, you speak of the price as that of Gold which cannot be sworn off ? — That can be sworn off. Do you speak of that as Gold in bars ? — Gold in bars is the only Gold that is standard Gold, except, I believe, Por- tugal ; and that Gold, I should observe, is not always stand- ard, but the price is always spoken of as the standard ounce. How do you distinguish Gold in bar that may be sworn off, from Gold that may not ? — By melting it from coins. If Gold is brought to you in the shape of bar, how do you judge whether it may be sworn off or not ? — Unless it is foreign S. T. Binm.] minutes of evidence. (21) bars, we cannot tell ; there are some few bars come from Por- tugal, and some few from the East Indies. If bars of Gold are brought to you which you cannot say are foreign bars, and which are standard; may they or may they not be sworn off? — They cannot be sworn off, unless we know that they are actually produced from foreign Gold. Do you give the same for light guineas which you do for other standard Gold ? — I make a difference of about three- pence an ounce less for light guineas than for bars. For bars that can be sworn off? — No, for home consump- tion. Supposing the price at present to be 90s. what should you suppose the price in proportion for light guineas ? — To-day I should give about 85.?. 6d. per ounce, perhaps 85s. 9d. What is the reason for that difference of 3 pence i — The expence of melting. What per ounce would you give to-day for standard Gold that may be exported ? — Under the uncertainty of time when it may be exported, I cannot take upon me to say what I would give. What is the last market price for Gold that may be ex- ported ? — Ninety shillings, I believe. What is the last market price of Gold in bar that may not be exported ? — About 86s. What was the last price you gave for light guineas? — To the best of my recollection about 85s. gd. Have you made any large purehase or sales at those prices ? —No. Is the price rising or falling? — I believe it to be pretty steady. Since when ? — I do not know of any alteration within the last two or three weeks. Has it been higher within the last six months ? — I be- lieve not. Have you any means of judging whether it is likely to rise or fall ? — No, I have not. Has it been higher within this twelvemonth ? — I believe not. Has it not been j£\ 4. 12. within the last twelve or fifteen months ? — Not to my knowledge. Are your dealings in Gold to any considerable amount in (22) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [S. T. BillllS, the course of the year ? — Not very considerable ; chief! v in foreign coins. Have you had any means of informing yourself whether there has been any remarkable export or import within the last year ? — I have not. Your house does not act for the Bank in any way ? — No, it does not. Is there any entry made at any office at the Bank of any dealings you have in Gold or Silver ? — All Gold or Siver sold by the brokers is entered at the Bank. Are your dealings through the intervention of a broker ? — In general ; aot always. Is there any other foreign broker, except Mr. Goldsmid ? — I believe not. In what part of your dealings do you employ a broker ? — When we sell : we buy without a broker. You buy in small quantities, and sell in large ? — Yes. What class of people bring light guineas to you ; the shop- keepers, or the banker, d? the country bankers, or what class of people ? — I cannot say. Do they come to you, or you go to them ? — They come to me. You weigh the light guineas brought to you ? — Yes. How much are they deficient ? — Some half a grain or a grain ; some are deficient six grains : when we weigh light guineas, we do not attend to how much they want, but to ascertain whether they are current or not ; then we weigh them all together. Does not a practice prevail either of sweating down heavy guineas, or doing something to them to make them light, to bring them within the weight to admit of their being melted down ? — Not to my knowledge. You do not know of such a thing being done ? — No. What is the expenceof melting down ? — Very inconsiderable. Is the process very easy ? — Yes, I believe it is. What is the expence of providing the means of melting them down ? — With that I am not acquainted ; a place is obliged to be built on purpose. Would the heat of a common fire melt them down ? — No, I believe not. S.T.Binfh.] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (23) Is not the coin which you melt down as light Gold, sold to thegoldsmiths, and employed in articles of manufacture? — Yes. About what amount of light guineas have you bought within the course of the last year? — I should imagine from i,000 to 2,000 guineas. During the whole course of the last year ? — Yes. Which have been melted ? — Yes, they have. Are there any other dealers in the same line with your house ? — There are several other houses in the same line. How many ? — I do not know. Do you know of any persons who make it their business to collect light guineas, to bring them to you or to other dealers in the same way ? — No. In what sums are light guineas brought to you ? — Tn small sums Of one or two guineas, or how much more ? — Perhaps ten or fifteen. What class of persons generally bring light guineas to you? —I do not enquire who people are. You never take them from persons you do not know ? — I have taken them from persons I never saw before. Generally speaking, who are the persons who come to you with light guineas ? — I do not know. Are they in your opinion persons who wish to make more money of them than twenty-one shillings ? — Not to my know- ledge ; I do not know their intention. In point of fact, they do make more? — Yes, they do. The average you give for a guinea is about twenty-three shillings, is it not? — No, I believe not quite so much. Is there any fixed price you give for a single guinea? — It is according to the weight. Supposing it to be just under the weight, have you any re- gulated price ? — No, we calculate by the weight. Does not a light guinea when Offered to you, produce more to the person offering it than a guinea in paper? — Yes, it dc es. Are the small Gold coins brought to you in the same wav ? —No. No half- guineas ? — No. Have you had any recent instance of purchasing a light gui-' nea for less than twenty- one shillings? — 1 do not recollect any. (24) minutes of evidence. [IV. Merle . What do dealers in your line consider as a fair difference between their purchases and their sales ? — From a halt' to one per cent, according to the state of the market. Is your Bullion coin deposited in your own warehouse, or at the Bank ? — In our own warehouse. Can you state what may be the average weight of a certain quantity of our Gold coin ; say five hundred guineas, such as that coin is which is in common circulation ? — [The answer was postponed.] The only guineas you have had an opportunity of weighing are those which are so light that they are unfit to remain in circulation ? — Yes. Do you know that it is the practice to give a premium to ex- change heavy guineas against light? — I do not. William Merle, Esq. called in, and Examined. WHAT is your business ? — I am a banker and a gold refiner. In the house of Cox and Merle ? — Yes. Describe the general nature of your dealings as a refiner. — Oar general dealings are in supplying the goldsmiths with Gold and Silver, for the purposes of their manufacture j at the same time I sell a great deal of silver to the merchants, and Gold also for exportation. What are the different descriptions of Gold which passes through your hands? — We have it of all qualities •> it is im- possible to enumerate them. Do foreign Gold coin and Gold in bar form a part? — Yes, of different qualities. Is there any quantity of light guineas passes through your hands? — Not now; we have had millions when the Gold coin was called in j but there has been no calling in lately. If light guineas are brought to you for sale, do you purchase them ? — We used to do ; but we have not had any lately, on account of the high price. You would purchase them if they were brought to you ? — Yes. Why does the high price of Gold prevent their being brought to you ? — The jewellers, I apprehend, melt them down themselves j if they were brought to me I should give tV, Merle.] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (25) ho more than the current price ; but at the present price of Gold they would produce more. When light guineas were brought to you, you purchased them ? — 1 did. According to what rate ? — The Bank at that time gave £.3. 17. 6*. an ounce for them when melted in bars, and we gave £.3. 17. 2. per ounce in guineas. - That was the market price of Gold at the time ? — Yes. If light guineas had been brought to you within the last year and offered to you for sale, would you not, in the same manner, have bought them at the market price ? — No ; be- cause they would produce more than twenty-one shillings ; I should not have bought them at more than the coinage price, which is £. 3. 17. 10-i-. per ounce, which would make them produce about £. J. 0. 10. that will make a guinea from the Tower exactly /,'. 1. 1. Have you made any considerable purchases of light guineas since the period of the re-coinage ? — O yes, vast quantities; many thousands. For the purpose of melting them down into bars ? — Yes> and sending them to the Bank. Did you buy them at the market price ? — Yes ; at the mar- ket price, according to what the Dank gave: the Bank has never given more than £. 3. 17. 6. and we have given £. 3. 17. 2. or £. 3. 17. 2£.: then there was two-pence for melting, and that left a profit of 14c?. Supposing Gold was scarce, and that there was a great de- mand for it, what would prevent you from giving the market price for it? — Nothing would prevent my doing it; but if I had not a consumption in supplying the trade here, I should then send it into the Bank, because none of this Gold can be sent out of the country, being English Gold. What has been the market price of Gold during the last year ? — I can hardly inform you what may be called the mar- ket price, foreign Gold is so much higher out of proportion than English Gold ; the last foreign Gold from foreign coin I sold at £. 4. 10. per ounce; I sold it as standard at that price. That was the price at standard fineness ? — Yes. Do you speak of it in bars? — Yes, foreign bars: £. 3. 17. 2.V, M (2fi) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. SJV.McrU. is the coinage price, and Gold of an equal quality is sold at £. 4. JO. for exportation ; I sell Gold much lower to th« trade here. What price have -vou got, at the same time you speak of, for har Gold which could not be exported ? — We delivered it to the trade at about £. 4. 8. and once we have been obliged to advance it, on account of the scarcity. If you could get £. 4. 8. from the trade for Gold that could" not be exported, would not you have given as much for light guineas brought to you, as. would have given you the profit you expected ? — No, certainly not ; I could not think myself justified in giving 23 shillings for a guinea; I have always understood it was contrary to the laws of the country, and if I was to do a thing of that kind I should have many applica-, tions made to me ; perhaps ihev might file down heavy guinea* and bring me, and if they could sell them to me for £. 1. 3. they would not let them go at £. I. 1. What do you conceive to be the illegality ? — I understand the melting down heavy guineas is felony, and I have under- stood as to the giving more than £. 1.1. for a guinea some penalty will attach to the person giving it ; and indeed there is a proof of it, for there is a man in custody who has been giving a premium for guineas, and he is now held to bail. Do you understand it to be contrary to law to deface a light guinea ? — No, certainly not. Then if a number of light guineas, so defaced, were brought to you, you would feel yourself at liberty to buy them ? — Not at- a price higher than the coinage- price, which would be about £. 1.0. 10. If defaced thev would no longer be coin? — Bat I should not feel myself justified in giving more; for many persons might deface guineas to make more of them.' If those light guineas were actually melted down, you would have no scruple in buying the Gold so melted down ? — If a bar is brought to me, it i« impossible for me to know what it is from ; it is assayed, and we buy it according to the assay ; I should give, perhaps, £.4. 6. an ounce for stand- ard Gold in bars ; but if I had known they had been guineas, I should not buy them at all. If I was to bring you a hundred light guineas, and ask IV. Merle.] minutes o? evidence. (2?) you to take them at Bullion price, you would not take them tit that ? — No ; at coinage price. I understood you to say, that you would never buy any light guineas, however deficient, it" ihe market price of Gol4 Bullion was higher than /,". 3. 17- lO^d. ? — No. Do you know the price the Bank now gives for standard Gold ? — They give £.4. Would you conceive yourself entitled to give £-4. for standard coinage r — No; for a light guinea would then pro- duce^". 1. 1.4. What is the exact limit which constitutes a light guinea ? — Any thing which the Bank fixes; a guinea must not now he under 5 dwts. 8 grams. What are they generally when coined J — Five pennyweights nine grains and a fraction : the Bank allows a grain for cir- culation and ruhhing and so on. You have stated, that a person was in custody tor buying guineas at more than twenty-one shillings each ; do you hap- pen to know whether the guineas which he so bought were light guineas, or guineas of the full weight ? — That 1 did not enquire; hut a gentleman at the Tower, I apprehend, was employed to apply to this Jew to purchase some light guineas : Jie sold them at twenty-three shillings, and he was immediately taken up. You do not conceive that the defacing light guineas is any offence? — No, \ should think not. Then the sale of guineas so defaced is not an offence? — I should apprehend that a person is not justified in giving twenty- three shillings for a guinea to mtlt. Do you conceive a per$oo would he justified in buying light guineas for melting, if the price was low ? — Certainly. How long is it since you bought any light guineas ? — I sup- pose four or five years. None have been brought to you for sale, to be melted, within that time ? — ] should think not. Do you know that there is any law against the purchase of light guineas at more than £. 3. 17. \OU\. ?— I understood, from this person being taken up, that it is an offence, that he js liable to a fine by the Court, and a certain imprisonment, if he sells a guinea at more than twenty-one shillings. You suppose there is no law against the purcha: e of defaced f>2) (28) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \}V. Mer!?. guineas, and yet you choose to refrain from purchasing light guineas at more than the current price ; what are your mo- tives for refusing to purchase at the high price ? — I think it would open such a field for fraud ; a number of persons re- ducing the guineas and then selling them. That is the reason why you refuse to purchase light guineas at a higher price ? — Yes. You have stated, that the Bank would give £. 4. an ounce for light guineas so melted down ; would you not conceive that the Bank is committing an offence against the law ? — I believe I was asked, what the Bank gives now : the Bank gives £. 4. j but I do not know that they have had any Hgh$ guineas brought in, more than myself, for several years ; it is bars of Gold carried in for which they give £. 4. : there have been no light guineas melted for several years. Will you describe to the Committee the process vulgarly called sweating guineas ? — I do not know exactly in what manner ; I have never seen it done, nor know in what man- Tier it is done : I believe it is a name used rather than a thing carried into execution. You know that light guineas are diminished by some pro- cess ? — When the light Gold was called in, I believe it was onlv from absolute fair wear. Can you state what is the average weight of guineas now in circulation ?— We see none ; we do not even see a seven- shilling piece. Are not the new seven-shilling pieces from the Mint worth rather more than their proportion ? — No; three seven- shilling pieces weigh exactly what a guinea weighs. You say you have been in the habit of receiving many 4 thousand light guineas ?-r-Yes, formerly. Can you inform the Committee how much they are under' weight, upon the average ? — I should apprehend upon the. average they would hardly exceed half a grain ; for the Bank takes them at 5 pennyweights 8 grains, and all bankers take them at the same weight ; and if it went the least back it was refused. as a light guinea: but I apprehend it would not be more than half a grain upon each. If .you took a thousand light guineas, you apprehend they would weigh about 5 dwts. 74- g rs « ?— Yes, W. Merle. 1 wrNUTEs op evidence. (29) What difference would that make in the price? — They will produce very near £. ] . 0. 9. So that the average price of' light guineas is about £. 1 9-? — Yes ; I speak of the price when Gold was at the exact standard. You state, that you were not in the habit of giving more for light guineas than standard price; you know that others in the trade do. do you not? — I cannot speak to that from my own knowledge. Have you not lately had brought to you a great quantity of Gold which cannot be exported? — It is very scarce now; but there is a great deal that we melt down, which cannot be exported, because it cannot be sworn off as foreign Gold. Has there not come to you a great quantity within the last twelvemonth? — No, it has been very scarce, we can hardly supply the trade ; the silversmiths about London buy a great quantity of Gold and melt it down; we buy it according to the report of the Assay Master; the want of it is owing to the shortness of supply ; and, I apprehend, a great deal is smug- gled out of the country. Taking the price of ninety shillings an ounce, what is a cur- rent guinea worth ? — Twenty-four shillings and a penny. What do you conceive was the average of the guineas when they were last in circulation ? — Five pennyweights seven grains and an half, about threepence less in value ; they produced from £. J. 0. 8. to £.\.Q. {). If five hundred guineas, such as are in circulation, were brought to you, do you think they would weigh above five pennyweights eight grains ? — No, I should apprehend not ; but if they did not all weigh five pennyweights eight grains ai the Bank, they would refuse such as did not ; they would not take them altogether: we have left off weighing them, and so has every body lately; except the Bank, because they pass even under five peny weights eight grains at £ . I. 1. 0. What do you conceive would be the average weight, if you were to take the mass of guineas that are in circulation now} — I should apprehend they would weigh about five penny- weights seven grains and a half: if it is only a fraction of a sixteenth under live pennyweights cighl grains, they are coty? :idead .13 light, (30) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \W. Merle, When all guineas were weighed, and the price of Gold wa» about the standard price, jt\ 3. 17. 1t has been the practice of a number of people to attend (38) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [IKMerfe. among the butchers in Whitechapel and other markets, and to . bd. when they called them in, therefore the persons having them were glad to take. them in. A dollar is worth 4s. 6d. at par? — That depends upon the price in the market. What do you consider the standard price of a dollar, taking the value at what our English coin should be? — It would come to about 4s. Gd. I suppose ; but I have not known in my recollection that silver has been so low as the standard price; the standard price would be about 5s. 2\d. an ounce ; dollars are threepence an ounce worse in quality than standard silver. Sixty- two and an half is the standard price of silver ? — Yes f dollars would then be worth only 4s. 1 id. an ounce. (40) MINUfRS OP evidence. * [IV.Merte. Supposing silver to be at its standard price, what would 3 dollar then be worth ? — Four shillings and fourpcnce. What is a dollar worth now ? — Four shillings and ninepence : silver is about fivepence an ounce now above the coinage price. That is about nine percent., is it not? — I suppose there- abouts. How do you account for the circumstance of Gold being sixteen per cent, above its coinage price, and silver only nine? -*-I cannot answer that question, because I am not conversant with the foreign connection. You suppose it a question connected with the state of the foreign exchanges ? — Yes ; and there are many places where dollars will not do as Gold will do. You do not suppose it to arise from any cause in the con- sumption of one article or the other in the country ? — No ; I do not consider the consumption to have any thing to do with it; a great many dollars go out to the West Indies, and per- haps very little Gold goes there, but Gold is taken over to the Continent and not dollars. What is the cause of the present price of silver bullion being higher than the coinage price ? — The demand : I have a great demand for dollars, and perhaps I must give 5s. id. on Mon- day, because they are. wanted to go out, and I therefore must get them at the best price I can ; perhaps that may last for a month or perhaps only for a week; dollars vary every week an halfpenny or a penny an ounce. You know that at the time we are coining Gold at £ . 3. 1 7 • 1 0-j-. per ounce, we are coining silver at 5s. 2d. per ounce, that the proportions between Gold and silver are such that the silver will always buy more than the Gold? — Yes, certainly it will. Therefore it is not possible that much silver should remain as the coin of the country? — No, certainly not. Are not the bankers in the habit of giving a premium for silver ? — We used to do it till we got the stamped dollars; I have given an hundred and one pounds for a quantity of coin worth sixty if it was melted down, though passing for art hundred, but I have given that premium to get it, bad as it is, particularly at harvest time ; it is always very scarce then. It comes back again afterwards ?— Yes, some of it ; but we have given one and an half per cent, for it, notwithstanding- A. A.Goldsmid.] Minuses op evidence. (41) Lance, 26° die Felruarii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Aaron Asher Goldsmid, Esq. again called in, and Examined. CAN you explain why the price of Gold is frequently omitted to be quoted for a long period together, as for 1806, 1S07, and 1808? — When the prices of Gold are not quotedj the transactions are not either numerous or important. Do you mean to say, that during the whole of these three years there were not transactions enough to constitute a price? — I have no doubt that the aggregate amount was sufficient to constitute a price, but I am not aware whether there was any thing sufficient done between each post day. ; Can you state what might be the actual price of such few pales as took place ? — Four pounds, during the whole of those three years, was the price of foreign Gold in bars and Portu- gal Gold in coin. Have you ascertained the time when a change took place of an exportation of Gold from this Country to the Brazils, in- stead of an importation ? — Towards the middle of the year 1808, the merchants trading to the Brazils and Portugal pur- chased Gold and silver Bullion, instead of selling it as before. Was there not before that period an importation of silver from the Brazils ? — I believe not. In what manner do you fix the price of Gold as between buyer and seller? — By ascertaining the general disposition of buy era and sellers, and stating the medium. Do you mean that you enquire what is the price which the one in your judgment is likely to be pleased to give, and the other the price which the other is likely to be willing to sell at r — Yes, it is the general opinion of the market. Have you any reference, in fixing the price, to the price? of the foreign market ? — Certainly. flow do you ascertain that? — By enquiring the last price of various merchants ; and generally the general disposition of the market concurs with the prices abroad, because persons ire willing to buy up to that price. 'hey govern'".! by the antecedent piiee of Gold? — (42) MINUTES OF RVIDENCE, [A. A. Goldsm'ld. Guided by the general disposition of the buyers and sellers here and the prices abroad : — there is seldom any great fluc- tuation, unless some great influx or sudden rise : for some considerable demand or large arrival will certainly tend to fall the price j and any considerable depression of the exchange ivould tend to raise the price, which might arise from many causes. Enumerate those causes, or give some instances. — Tn fact there frequently arise causes of which we are not aware of the original source, such as a particular demand for Gold on the Continent, as, I believe, is the case in the present instance; or money gojng out of the Country for the payment of troops abroad to any considerable extent would naturally have that effect. Would the price of Gold be affected by a large exportation of silver for the troops abroad ? — I am not aware that it would. Then, in order .that the payment of a subsidy abroad, or the remittance of money for the payment of troops abroad, should affect the price of Gold here, is it your opinion that the remittance must be made in whole or in part in Gold ?— If there are markets abroad in which there is a demand for both Gold and silver, the abstraction of silver from the mar- ket here must naturally enhance the price of Gold. If either Gold, silver, or bills of exchange were sent for the subsidy, would it not equally have an effect? — If bills were sent, it would certainly increase the debt of this Country to the Continent. Do you, in point of fact, know that a remittance of silver from this Country on account of Government, has in your market raised the price of Gold?— When the price of Gold is advanced, it is not at all times possible to trace it accurately to its source. Then do you mean to say, that you do not recollect an in- stance in which the price of Gold was to your knowledge , raised by a remittance of silver ? — Not any instance in which it was strictly ascertained to be so. Do you recollect whether large remittances were made from this Country to the Continent in the year 1796? — I have no recollection of any events of that description, which passed. •so far back as the year 1 796*. A. A. Gold$ml(L~] MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. (43) Supposing you were to hear that the trading intercourse be- tween this Country and the neighbouring parts of the Con- tinent was likely to be interrupted mure than ever by the se- verity with which the French Emperor was about to execute his restrictive edict, should you, in fixing the price of Gold, take that circumstance into your consideration ? — I think that such an event would stimulate purchasers, and consequently probably increase the price, in order to avail themselves of the existing opportunity of exporting it. Then you suppose that the opportunity would be lessened after the edict should become in force ? — I am supposing that the buyers should entertain such an opinion. Can you speak of a demand for Gold upon the Continent? what information have yon as to the extent of that increased demand, or the causes of it ? — From what I have heard, I believe that it has greatly arisen from the practice of the French armies, who in their progress through the Continent carry Gold in order to pay the demands upon them ; and as a proof of the probability of this circumstance, since the war in Spain, doubloons have borne a greater premium on the Continent in proportion to other Gold. At what market ? — In Holland. What is the difference of the price of doubloons in the Dutch market, before the Spanish war and since ? — I cannot speak precisely as to that. How is the price of doubloons at Amsterdam stated ? — I do not know. How long have you been personally acquainted with the trade in Bullion in this country ? — About six or seven years. Within that period of six or seven years, have you ever known the price of Gold at the Mint price ? — I have not. Would you say that for any length of time during that pe- riod the price of Gold has been at what you call a steady priec? — During the years 1806, 1607 and 1808 the price continued at £, 4. Are not these the years in which you stated there were not transactions enough to constitute a price ? — I suppose that the transactions were not very numerous and important, but all the bargains that were made were at that price. Can voli state the reason of that regular price during those (G2) (44) minutes OF evidence. [A. A. Goldsmid^ years, and was it not because the Bank of England fixed that as the price which they would give for Gold during those years ? — The market for Gold was the same during those years, and that is the cause of the steadiness of the price. What do you mean by the market for Gold ? — I mean to gay, that all or almost all the purchases were made for the same quarter. Were the purchases, by the quarter to which you allude, considerable ? — The aggregate amount might be considerable, but I am not aware what in point of fact it did amount to. You have stated, that during those years the demand on the part of the purchasers was nearly the same j was the supply equally steady on the part of the buyers ? — I cannot answer that question without referring. You have stated, that you always ascertain the price by what you call the general disposition of the market, and by taking a medium between the prices of the buyers and sellers; (did you adhere to that course in fixing the price during those years ? — It is our uniform practice to do so. Did you adhere to that uniform practice during those three years? — Certainly. Did you likewise during those three years, in fixing the price, advert to the price of Gold in the foreign market and to the course of exchange ?— It is impossible for me to speak particularly of our conduct during those three years, but I a/r, persuaded that it was so, from its uniform tenor. Do you at present understand, with respect to those three years 1806, 1807, and 1808, that the price remained so steadily the same, because all the circumstances to which it is the uni- form practice to advert in fixing the price underwent no varia- tion ?— It may be that the demand for one quarter exceeded all competition. Is it not the custom for different persons to place Gold in your hands, with directions for selling it, without specifying the price at which it should be sold? — Certainly. And does not a contrary practice as often prevail, of your being limited to a price by the seller ?— Both cases frequently occur. Do both cases occur with respect to buyers ? — With regar^ to buyers, we generally have some limits. J[.A.Goldsmid.) minutes of evidence. (45) But is there not some discretion allowed you, in general, by the sellers ? — There is frequently a latitude in both cases. Do I understand you correctly, in conceiving your account of the steady price during the three years 1806, 1807 and a 808, to be this, that from one quarter of the buyers there was a permanent demand for whatever Bullion you could sup- ply under a certain price, and that the price of Bullion in the market never in point of fact exceeded that price ? — I conceive fhe case to have been so. Whether the fluctuation was so sudden, as in the course of a month to rise 105. per ounce ? — I do not think the fluctua- tion was so sudden. When did the price of Gold begin to rise above £. 4. ? — I cannot speak to that. About what time did that state of circumstances cease, which you have described in your former answer, the effect of one buver upon the market ? — I think that cause operated during the course of the years 180G, 1807 and 1808. Was it the rise in the price of Gold to more than £. 4. that put an end to the demands from the quarter which you have alluded to? — Yes. Was that rise from £. 4. to £. 4. 10. which you have spoken of in your former answers, a progressive rise ? — To J.he best of my recollection it was. About 'what time did it attain the maximum? — I do not recollect. Then is the Committee to understand it to be your opinion, from the evidence yon have given, that this rise in the price of Gold was occasioned by a change in those circumstances which had remained steady during the years 1806, 1807 and 1606? — Those circumstances had not remained steady, but they had not changed so much as to raise the price. You mean the circumstances affecting the price of Gold in the foreign market, as weli as the operations of Government here, occasioning remittances ? — Circumstances in general. Do you include both descriptions of circumstances in your general description ? — Yes. Is not the price of Bullion regulated by the buyer and seller; and you being only the medium between them, have no con- trol or influence over the fixing the price ? — It is regulated by (46) minutes op evidence. [J. A. Goldsmid. the general disposition of the buyers and sellers, and no one has any influence so as to raise or depress it above or below its natural level. If a person in possession of 100 guineas of full weight were to melt them into bars and sell them in the market, w hat sum in Bank of England paper would he be able to obtain for them ? — He would have acted illegally in melting the guineas, and his bar would be unsaleable. How could the buyer know that that bar was melted from English guineas ? — No bar is sold for exportation unless the proprietor swears before the Court of Aldermen, as I have al- ready said, that it is melted from foreign coin or from foreign Gold in bars. Supposing the persons concerned were nevertheless to take that oath, what profit would they obtain upon that transaction ? — They would in the first instance obtain the profit which arises from the difference between the market and the Mint prices of Gold ; and in the next place if they were to export it, they would derive the profit of the export merchant. Upon the sum of one hundred guineas full weight, how much would the first of those profits amount to in pounds shillings and pence? — Fifteen pounds eleven shillings and six- pence. Then for one hundred guineas melted into a bar, he would have obtained £. 121 . 1 1. 6. in Bank of England paper ? — Yes. If he could for £. 105 have £. 121. 1 1. 6. and contrive to procure one hundred more guineas, would he not have made a profit of £. 15. 11. 6. and be in a condition to repeat that operation ? — Certainly. Does not the same temptation to melt our lighter coin exist in proportion to its approach to full weight? — Certainly it does. Is there not a positive temptation to melt all our English Gold coin that is not degraded for sixteen per cent. ? — Yes. Do you think that in the market that person could get the £. 121. 11. 6. paid to him for his bar in specie ? — The prac- tice of the Bank has always been, to pay and receive money in bank notes. If the transaction through your intervention were between one individual and another (the Bank having no concern in the transaction), do you think that in the case supposed any C. Lyne.] minutes of evidence, (47) purchaser could be found at present who would pay £. 121. 1 1. 6. in specie for the bar melted down from one hundred good guineas? — Whether the Bank have any concern or not, the mode of receiving is precisely the same. State vour opinion. — I dare say any person would find a great difficulty in doing; so, even if he were thus inclined. If as an individual you were about to purchase on your own account a Gold bar of the weight and standard of one hundred good guineas, and you had money enough in bank notes in one drawer and in specie in another to complete the bargain, would you make any difference in paying the seller in one monies or the other? — I certainly never would make a bargain in which there should be any difference. Charles Lyne, Esq. called in, and Examined. HAVE you opportunities of knowing the course of the trade in this Country and foreign parts, in Gold coin or Bul- lion ? — A little of it. Do you know whether in the course of the last two years there has been any remarkable change in the state of that trade, as to export or import ? — As far as my knowledge goes, there appears to have been a great difference in respect of the import of Gold being smaller. Since when has that change taken place? — I cannot precisely pay ; I should think in the course of these three or four years. Do you mean that within the course of these three or four years the importation of Gold has been less in this Country than in former years ? — Yes. How has the export of Gold from this Country been, in the same time? — I have no knowledge of that. Have you known of Gold being lately exported from this Country to the Brazils ? — Yes. Have you known of considerable quantities of Gold beino- exported ? — No ; small quantities ; what has gone, has been chiefly silver. Has silver been exported to the Brazils in considerable quantities? — Not very considerable, and that in Spanish dollars. What do you conceive to be the reason of Gold and silver being exported from this country to the Brazils ? — The appre- hension of a rupture between this Country and North Ame- rica, creating a great desire on the part of our manufacturers (48) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [CL^TlCi and dealers in cotton to purchase the cotton in the Brazils to import into this Country. Could they not make these purchases by drawing bills upon this Country ? — No, there being no takers for such bills on England : and the importer of cotton makes his purchase more readily by sending cash from this Country. For how many years do you recollect Gold and silver being sent to the Brazils to make such purchase ? — About two years, from this Country. Has there not been a practice for a much longer period of time, of sending silver ? — Not that I know of. Did not specie go to the Brazils from Europe longer ago than two years ? — From Portugal, I conceive, Gold has been sent to some of the Brazil settlements for many years back ; for example, to Pernambuco, and Maranham, and this while the importation of Gold was taking place from the Rio into Portugal ; and the same is the course of the trade now, but through the intervention of this Country." From what you had occasion to know of Portugal before the removal of the seat of government, did you conceive the balance of trade between the Colonies and the Mother Coun- try to be usually in favour of the former or of the latter? — In favour of the Colonies. What do you conceive to be the state of the trade between this Country and the Brazils ? — Very considerably in favour of this Country. Are remittances made in specie from the Brazils to this Countrv, in discharge of that balance ? — Considerable remit- tances are made from thence in dollars to this Country, from the Rio. Is Gold prohibited by the laws of the Brazils from being exported r — It is, under severe penalties. Is silver prohibited ? — Foreign coin is at present allowed to be exported. Do you conceive that since the removal of the seat of go- vernment, Gold is sent from the Brazils to Portugal ? — I con- ceive there is none. Have you any information as to the quantity of Gold that used formerly to be sent from the Brazils to Portugal ?— I have not. In what proportions ?~I cannot say,- C. Lyne.] minutes of evidence. (19) To what Settlements in the Brazils has the Gold which has been sent from this Country gone ? — Chiefly to Pernambuco and Maranham, and some small quantities to Batica. In what coin ? — In Portugal coin. How was this country supplied with the Brazil cottons for- merly? — Through Portugal. Have you any information with respect to the state of the Brazil mines, as to their productiveness ? — I have not. Or any other Gold mine? — No, I have not. What is the real par of exchange between this Country and Portugal ? — Sixty-seven pence and a half sterling for one thou- sand rees. What is a rec ? — The ree is not a coin, but an imaginary denomination. In the Portuguese mint are there any coins the value of which is expressed in rees? — Yes, all their coins are valued in rees. State the number of rees in the different Gold coins of the country. — A crusado is 400 rees ; a new crusado is 480; an eight festoon piece 800 rees ; a quarter of a moidore is 1,200 rees; half a sixteen festoon piece is 1,600 rees; a moidore 2,400 ; and what they call a three-mill two, 3,200; a moidore, 4,800 rees; and there is a piece called a six-mill four, which is 6,400 rees. Do you know the standard 'of the Gold coins in the Portu- guese mints? — The present standard is twenty-two carats. Do you know the weight of any of these coins ? — Not ex- actly. Do you know the weight of a Johanna ? — Not exactly. [Mr. Goldsmid stated, that the weight of a six-mill four is 9 dwts. 5 grs.] In stating the real par of exchange to be Q~^d. sterling for 1,000 rees, do you mean that there is the same quantity of Gold of 22 carats in 1,000 rees and in 67i-d. supposing them Fresh from the Portuguese mint? — Yes, I do. Do you know whether the six-mill four pieces at present are deficient from their coinage weight, and how much? — I should suppose not much ; they arc taken in Portugal without weighing. What is the present exchange between this countrvand Por- (H) (50) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [C. Lytlt '. t U ga] ? — Sixty-five and a half, both with Oporto and Lisbon ; at present they happen to be the same; but that involves a very complicated calculation, half being payable in hard money and half in paper. What is the paper ? — It is Government paper money, bear- ing an interest of six per cent, per annum. What is ihe value of that paper as compared with the Gold, at present ? — By the last advices, at a discount of twenty- seven per cent. It is paper money, which hitherto has been issued at the will of Government, without any kind of con- trol or explanation to the public as to the quantity or when it is to be redeemed. As a circulating medium? — Bylaw, payments are made half in that paper and half in haid money. Do you mean that this paper is a legal tender for the half of any payment that is to be made ? — Yes. How Ions has that been the case? — I think about fourteen years ; till then all payments were made in hard cash. Was one-half of the amount in paper a legal tender, from the period when that paper was first issued ? — Yes, it was. Was government paper circulation not known in Portugal till about fourteen years ago? — Never. How soon after the first issue of that paper did it fall to a discount? — I believe within about fourteen months. What did it fall to in the course of the first two or three years? — I cannot answer that with accuracy, but I should think, perhaps, the extent might have been 10 to 12 per cent. Did it not circulate for a considerable time at a discount of three or four per cent.? Yes, it did ; but T do not recollect for what space of time. Did this discount of the government paper affect the ex- change of Portugal with other countries? — It did to a certain degree, but n6t so much as might have been expected. When the discount became much larger, were not the ex- changes more affected? — Occasionally they were, but not ge- nerally. How did the Portuguese Government take this paper in payment of taxes ? — They used to take it in the same propor- tion of half and half. But did they take it at par ? — The Government always took C. Lyne.] minutes of evidence. (51^ it half and half, but the paper at par; that paper was always taken at par in payments, but when persons came to reduce it into hard cash then it bore a discount. Has the interest been regularly paid on them ? — No, not regularly. Has it lately been paid ? — I have not sufficient information to say. What is the form of the paper, payable at a given time and renewable by government; or what is the form of it? — I do not recollect the wording of the paper. For how low a sum was this paper ? — As low as 6s. gd. or 1,200 rees. What would be the true rate of exchange at present, sup- posing there was no paper, but the whole was paid in money ? — Less 134- per cent.; from 631, now current from this coun- try to that, 5G T % 5 ^d. Then how do you account for Portugal not sending us any- Gold ? — The country has been so drained when the French were there, that I conceive it is not to be had. By the hard cash which is payable for half, do you mean Gold or silver? — Both, or either, at the option of the payer. In what is it now common to pay? — Mostly in silver. Do not the Spanish dollars circulate in Portugal ? — At pre- sent they do, at 800 rees each dollar. In stating the par at 674- exchange with Portugal, do you not assume that the payments there were made in Portugal Gold coin ? — When I stated the par of exchange at 67-,-, it was upon the comparative value as to weight of Gold and quality of the six-mill four, when compared with the standard weight and value of our guineas, and also the relative value of the old silver coins. Since therefore the practice now is to pav in Portugal partly in silver, and the existing exchange is subject to that condi- tion, does it not follow that we have no means of knowing the exact difference between the present rate of exchange and the real par of that country r — Certainly there arc no means of knowing what is the difference between the present rate of exchange and the par of that country, without knowing the standard of the silver, and the discount upon the paper by the standard, I mean the relative value of the silver and Gold. (H 2) (52) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [C. Lljnt. How does the Portuguese Government pay its debt to indi- viduals? — They pay half money and half paper. The following Communication from Mr. Lyne ivas received on the gth March : " In addition to the evidence I have given to the Commit- tee, I beg leave to offer the following written Observations : " The Pars of Exchange between Great Britain and the Coun- tries with which it has commerce, have, as I conceive, been fixed by the relative value of the respective coins of those coun- tries compared with those of England, principally, I believe, by the relative value of the Gold coins, including therein the expence, as well as the profit on the coinage. But though there are those fixed pars of exchange between the different countries, they are not in any the smallest degree attended to, or do they in any manner serve as a guide for exchange ope- rations : the only use of such pars of exchange is, in my opi- nion, that of showing the comparative value of such coins, in cases where the creditor is reduced to the necessity of taking them in payment of his debt for the want of any other repre- sentative. Exchange operations are, as I conceive, solely go- verned by a greater or smaller demand for bills, created by a greater or smaller'amount of imports and exports; and by the prices of exportable Gold and Silver in the respective countries with which those exchange operations are done. " The balance of trade between England and those different countries with which it has commerce, being in favour of Eng- land, while the exchanges are so much against her, is, in my opinion, satisfactorily accounted for by the following facts : — By the balance of trade, which is in favour of Great Britain, being for the major part against South America, from whence it has not yet comeback, and consequently cannot yet produce its effect in the general balance with other countries which are creditors : — By a greater amount of import from the Baltic, France, and Holland, than that of export thither from hence, which has created a great depression in the exchanges : — By a great difficultv and hazard in carrying on bill and bullion ope- rations with the Continent, as also from some parts of the Continent to others ; which consequently require greater profits to cover those risks, and causes therefore an augmented C, Lytic] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (, r )3) depression in the exchanges : — By the want of a concurrence of drawers and consequent competition,. which enables the few individuals engaged in those operations to control the ex- changes, and keep them so much depressed, to their own advantage : — And by the great export of specie for the pay- ment of our troops on foreign stations, and for other Govern- ment purposes. " These are, I conceive, the causes of the great depression in our exchanges, and the consequent export of specie. I do not agree in opinion with those, who conceive that either the one or the other is occasioned by our circulating medium being confined to Bank notes ; though I know of instances (and in which I have had much practical experience) where such effects have been produced by a paper money circulation, in different parts of the Continent of Europe; but- that has been so pro- duced, only as such paper currency became of less value than what by law it was purported to represent, and therefore, when it so fell in value, (and not before) that bills on foreign coun- tries were not obtainable at such rates of exchange or price when to be paid for in such paper money, as they were when to be paid for in Gold and Silver, the exchanges necessarily became depressed in the same proportion as the paper money became depressed. But the case is by no means similar in respect to the Bank notes and exchanges in this country ; very much otherwise , inasmuch as bills on foreign countries are here obtainable precisely at the same rates of exchange, whe- ther they be paid for in Bank notes or in guineas ; and con- sequently, the remitter can place by bill remittances as many florins in Amsterdam, or as many marks in Hamburg, with £. 1,000. in Bank notes, as he can with £. 1000. in guineas : and therefore it becomes obvious, that the courses of exchange between England and the Continent, would be precisely the same, whether the circulating medium be in Bank notes or in'guineas, if the latter are to he kept in the country. But if guineas were the circulating medium, and they were to be sent to the Continent for the payment of the debt due from this Country, they would most undoubtedly have the effect of reducing the present great difference of exchange; and so would undoubtedly an equal amount of any other article : Guineas would produce the most speedy effect, inasmuch as, (54) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [C. Lljne, being of a more portable nature, they would sooner find their way into the Continent. But while guineas would thus pro- duce the most speedy effect, it is equally obvious that mer- chandize of lawful export would produce a greater effect in reducing the difference of exchange : Guineas, colonial pro- duce, manufacture, or any other article of commerce, are all changeable or saleable on the Continent for the same article, namely, the circulating medium there, whatever that may be; the effect on that side would thus in the first instance be precisely the same, but the effect on this side would be widely different, and in favour of the lawful export of produce or manufacture against that of guineas ; for while in the lawful export of the former, there would be an open concurrence of exporters of goods and of drawers on the Continent, against the same, which would produce a competition, and a conse- quent advance in the exchanges in favour of England, the un- lawful export of guineas would be confined to a very few ; who would thereby not only avoid the competition of drawers, and consequently have the means of controlling the exchanges more to their own benefit against this Country, but who would also necessarily require a greater difference in the exchange to cover the risk they run in transgressing the laws, and thus also, the country, or say the public, would have to pay the guinea exporter for the risk he runs in transgressing its laws. " The question then seems to stand thus : A debt is due to the Continent, which must be paid ; shall England, if it had the means, pay it in Gold or in any other article of commerce, such as the Rulers on the Continent will consent to take from us ? Gold will produce the most speedy effect ; colonial pro- duce will produce the greatest. Taking into consideration, that were our circulating medium in guineas, and they to be sent out of the Country for the payment of the balance due to the Continent of Europe, in order to check the depression in the exchanges ; we must in such case, not only send out a greater amount of Gold than of produce, to cause an equal effect, but we must again resort to Bank notes, and again and again ; unless it be presumed, that such immense imports of Bullion will take place, so as to furnish us with a sufficient quantity, not only to keep up the whole circulating medium of the country, but also to pay, in those precious metals, the T. Hughan.] minutes of evidence. (55) occasional balances that England may owe to certain parts of the Continent of Europe, not likely to be inconsiderable during the present contest with France, while the unsettled state of our commerce with South America, renders our Bullion and specie supplies from thence extremely precarious." Martis, 27° die Fehruarii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Thomas Hughan, Esq. a Member of the House, Examined. PLEASE to state what line of trade you are engaged in. — A merchant, trading to the West Indies. State to the Committee the nature of the trade in Gold between the West Indies and this Country. — My practical knowledge of Bullion imports is almost exclusively confined to that from the Island of Jamaica ; in Gold there is very little done. The imports into that Island from the Spanish Settlements consist almost entirely of silver, although there are occasionally small quantities of Gold ; the Bullion so re- ceived is generally in return for English goods and manufac- tures sold to the inhabitants of those Settlements. From which of those Settlements do you derive in specie the principal supply of Gold ? — The supply of Gold is chiefly irom'Carthagena and Vera Cruz. Do you derive any supply of Gold from the Portuguese Colonies, or from the United States of North America ? — There is little or rather no intercourse between Jamaica and the Portuguese Settlements, although there are considerable quantities of Portuguese Gold at times current in that Island, which are obtained chiefly from the Spaniards. I am not aware of any supply of Gold being obtained from the United States of America ; there have at times been importations into that country, of counterfeit or light Gold coin from the United States. State the money that is current in the Island of Jamaica. — The money current in the Island of Jamaica is, British; Spanish, and Portuguese coins, Gold and silver. What do you consider as the par of exchange between (56) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [T. Hughan. Jamaica and Great Britain ? — The established par of exchange between Jamaica and Great Britain is 140 for every 100, or £. 140. currency for every £. 100 sterling. On what ground is that termed the par ? — When the current money of the Island is converted into sterling money, it is computed at the rate of 140 to 100. In what mode are the payments in the common transactions of commerce made in Jamaica ? — They are made in the cir- culating coin of the country, at the current value. All sterling sums would be estimated first at the rate of 1 10 per cent, and the payments would he made in the coin at whatever it passes current for. For example, a debt of £. 500. sterling would be computed to amount to £. 700. currency, which would be discharged by the payment of 2,100 dollars, six shillings and eight-pence being the current value of a dollar; but, owing to the High price of silver in England of late, dollars have borne a premium in Jamaica of from two to four per cent, above six shillings and eight-pence. In what are payments now made under those circumstances? — I apprehend if a payment were made in dollars under those circumstances, the receiver of the dollars must allow four per cent, additional to the current value, -because the dollars are intrinsically worth so much ; but that it-would be at the option of the debtor to make his payments in any other coin current. Whether the 140 per cent, called the par of exchange be- tween England and Jamaica was not fixed by a positive enact- ment of the Assembly ? —I think it was ; and I did not mean to state that the exchange between Jamaica and England was permanent ; on the contrary, it fluctuates like all other ex- changes. What you have called the current value of the dollar, in the answer before the last, is the legal current value, and not the actual value ? — So I understand it. Under what state of exchange does Gold come to this Country ? — When the price of Gold in England is high, and the rate of exchange abroad in favour of England, then Gold is sent here as a remittance instead of bills, or as an article of traffic. State the rates of exchange which have prevailed in the Island of Jamaica for two years last past. — The exchange be- 7\ HlLghaii] MINUTES OF EVlbENCE. (57) tween Jamaica and England for the last two years has uniform- ly been very high in favour of England; at one time it was as high in Jamaica, for bills at ninety days sight on England, as twenty per cent,, or £. 168. currency for £. 100. ster- ling ; the exchange has since declined, and, by my last advices, it was at ten per cent., or £. 154. currency for £. 100. sterling. Can you state the changes per cent, which attend the bring- ing of Gold from Jamaica to London ?- — I am not prepared with any accurate calculation upon that subject ; but I should estimate the expence of bringing Gold from Jamaica to London, if conveyed in a man of war, at about five per cent. What would it be In time of peace ? — There would be little difference in the charges in time of peace ; the expence might then amount to four instead of five per cent. Is any brought now but in ships of war? —It is chiefly if not entirely brought in ships of war and packets : there are occasionally small sums brought by merchant-men of the su- perior classes. What is the expence of carrying Gold to Jamaica from the Spanish Colonies if — By the same conveyances, that is, by men of war, I should compute the expence at about two and a half to three per cent., exclusive of all risk of getting it on hoard. Is the risk of getting it on board -lately increased ? — No, I think not; on the contrary I should think that hazard dimi- nished. What art- the causes which have produced that high rate of exchange between Jamaica and Great Britain ? — The rate of exchange between Jamaica and Great Britain is affected by different causes ; but the principal reason which has of late oc- casioned so high a rate of exchange, has been the great ex- port of manufactures from this Country through that channel for the supply of the Spanish Settlements, which of course created a great demand for the means of remittance to the manufacturer and others who had exported them. Goods to ;rreat extent and value being 3ent from this Country and sold to the Spanish settlers, the reuurns were to be made in such mode as best suited the convenience of the parties or as could be accomplished ; this necessarily occasioned a great demand for bills of exchange upon Great Britain, and in proportion to (58) minutes' of fivibfeNCE. [T. Hughan, that demand the value or price of those bills must be regulated : the returns for these goods from the Spanish settlements are made chiefly, bait not entirely, in specie. What is received at Jamaica as a return from the Spanish settlers ? — Chiefly specie, and that silver; the returns in Gold bear no proportion. Does the specie so brought to Jamaica constitute a current payment in that Island ? — It docs. Then does not the rate of exchange with England conform itself to the existing value of that coin ; or at least if it varies, is not the variation limited' to the sum, or nearly the Sum, which it must cost to bring that coin to England? — The ex- change is undoubtedly regulated in a considerable degree by the value of specie in this country, and the expence of trans- porting it, but does not entirely conform to it, because there are various other modes of making remittances from the West Indies to Great Britain, independent of what is done in specie^ and the exchange will be governed to a certain extent by the value here of many articles of West India prociuce, which in proportion to their prices enable the residents in that country to draw more or less against them : for instance, if a hogs- head of sugar is worth only £. 10. in this country, the pro- prietor resident abroad has not the means of drawing upon it half the amount as when it is worth £. 20. Have you ever known the exchange with Jamaica below par? — Yes, but only for one period in twenty-five years that I have known the Island ; I think it was about the year 1791 bt 1792. Previous to the last two years, were the rates of exchange generally speaking steady or fluctuating ? — The rates of ex- change were always variable. Were thev so in any considerable degree? — The rate of ex- change has been .higher during the last two years than ever I knew k before ; but the rate of exchange is always fluctuating. To* which of the Spanish settlements are the manufactured good's you have been speaking of, principally exported? — They are exported to all the surroundmg settlements, to the coast of the Continent, and to Cuba. From what period has this great export of goods taken place? — The trade between Jamaica and the Spanish settle- T. Htlgkan.] MINUTES OF EVIDENXE. (5Q) ments is very much increased, since an interruption was given to the commerce carried on between America and those countries; it has also been extended considerably since the commencement of the French usurpation in Spain. As the Island of Jamaica exports a considerable part of its produce to England, the natural exchange, according to tb* principles of the balance of trade, would be in favour of Ja- maica ? — The chief part of the proprietors of Jamaica are Ro- dent in England, and the exports from Jamaica are either remit- tances to them for the produce oF their estates or as payment of debts due to this country, which in my opinion occasions the balance to be in favour of Enghnd instead of Jamaica. Are you able to say, whether the export to Jamaica was greater in the year 180y than in the year 1 803? — I cannot speak precisely to that point, but I rather think it greater in 1S08 than in ISOO. Can you state any opinion, how long after merchandize is exported from England to Jamaica, to be sent from thence to South America, it is before any remittances are made to the manufacturer in England for that merchandize ? — I am afraid my information will be defective upon that point ; it depends upon a variety of circumstances; the supply that may be in the foreign market, and the demand for goods. When the intercourse between the Spanish colonies and Jamaica was so great, and the demand for goods so brisk, atone period in the year 1S08, large sales were made in Jamaica for immediate payments in money, and consequently the returns to the ma- nufacturers or exporters were quick ; but since that time, from an over-supply, I apprehend, to the Spanish markets, the sale of such goods has been heavy, and it is impossible to fix- any definite- period for the returns being made. Can you say whether the returns are made in six months, in nine months, or in twelve months ? I wish to confine the question to the year I8O9. — In the year 180Q, I should think that hardly in any instance could the manufacturer receive any return in twelve months from those markets. Then the Committee are to understand, that it is your opinion that no returns or but small sums have been made for the exports of the year 180U ? — I should so conceive. Arc von acquainted with the nature of (he trade b-» ■ (12) (60) minutes of evidence. [T. Hug/ian< Great Britain and the other free ports of the West Indies ? — > Not practically : I apprehend it is much the same as that car- ried on from the free ports of Jamaica. Has the trade in Bullion consisted of Gold or silver, and what proportions of each, from Jamaica, for the last two years ? — Of both 5 hut the proportions I am unable to state. State to the Committee any estimation of the quantity of Bullion which has been imported from the Island of Jamaica within the last twp years.-^I cannot, not having taken any pains to inform myself. Can you state what is the amount of silver which has been imported direct into this Country from the port of Vera Cruz, within the last two years? — I cannot state the amount, but it must have been very considerable. Estimate, as near as you can, the amount. — I should sup- pose from fifteen to twenty millions of dollars. Have you any guess as to the quantity of Gold ? — No, not the least. Whether or not, according to the best of your knowledge and opinion, a considerable portion of British manufactures, which used three or four years ago to proceed through the United States of America to the Spanish and Portuguese Colonies, do not now find their way thither through Jamaica and the other free ports of the West Indies ? — There being no Portu- guese Settlements in the vicinity of Jamaica, I cannot speak to the trade with them ; but, in my opinion, a very consider- able part of the supply of manufactured goods now furnished to the Spanish Colonies from the free ports of Jamaica, used formerly to be furnished from the United States of America. What do you consider the cause of that change ? — One very powerful cause was the operation of the American embargo^ which succeeded immediately to the passing the Orders in Council in this Country ; which necessarily threw a very con- siderable portion of the trade into this channel. You have stated, that the exchange with Jamaica has risen considerably within the last two years ; can you state whether the quantity of Gold and silver contained in the coins in which the current payments are made in Jamaica, has re- mained the same as before that period ? — I believe it has, { have no reason to think the contrary. J. L. Greffiilhe.] minutes of evidence. (61) Does any part of the currency of Jamaica consist of paper ? .—There is no regular issue of paper by any bank or backing company ; the acceptances of private individuals, andeeftifi- caies for the public debt of the island of Jamaica, arc occa- pioi ally passed from one individual to another in payments. Small payments ? — Not small payments. Are those certificates ever made use of as remittances? — \ never knew them used as remittances. Whether yon do not consider the usurpation of Spain by the French to be a principal cause of the increase of the ex- port of British manufactures to the Spanish settlements through the Wfst Indies? — Undoubtedly I consider it as one cause, and have so stated in a former part of my answers; but undoubtedly I consider as a' more powerful cause, at the same time, the American embargo, Aaron Asher Goldsmid, Esq. called io. I wish to correct the minute of my former evidence of the 2-2 ' instant, with respect to the value of French and Dutch Gold coin, as compared with Bullion of the same fineness ; — r Jouis d'ors and napoleon d'ors have an extrinsic value as coin of about one and a half per cent. ; whereas the extrinsic value pf doubloons and Portugal Gold is above two per ceni,. Jovis, 1° die Mart ii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. John Louis Grefft/Ihe, Esq. called in, and Examined. IN what line of commerce are you ? — A general merchant, trading chiefly to the Continent. Arc you acquainted with the subject of the exchanges be- tween this Country and the Continent r — I have been in the habit of doing business in exchanges. What are the principal place: wijh which the exchanges are established at present? — Hamburgh, Amsterdam, and Paris', What is the present rate of exchange on Hamburgh? — Twenty-nine Flemish shillings, bauk money, to a pound sterling. (62) minutes of evidence. [J. L. Greffulhe. Has it varied much within the last two years ? — It has. What was it two years ago ? — If I recollect right it was between thirty-lour and thirty-five. What difference per cent, is there hetween that and the pre- sent course? — About 16 a' 17 percent. What is the Flemish shilling ?— The Flemish shilling is a nominal value ; twenty shillings are a pound Flemish ; a flemish is equal to 7+ marcs. What docs it represent nominally in stiver or Gold, and how much. ? — A quantity of bar silver of the standard of 47/48 purity at the price of banco mark 27/10 per mark weight. The payments at Hamburgh are made altogether in bank mo- ney by a transfer at the bank from one account to another; there is an agio, which is pretty steady, of 23 a' 2-1 per cent. lor bank money above current money. Is that agio the same in peace or war ? — I am not aware of any difference occasioned bv peace or war. Is that current monev a silver money altogether? — Silver and Gold both ; it is a matter of no interest to the merchant here what the current money is at Hamburgh, so few trans- actions take place in the current money. What quantity of silver are you entitled to receive from the bank for any given amount of bank money ? — Bank money is obtained against deposits of silver in bars, at the rate of below M. B. 27.10 per mark weight of 47/48 purity, and their sil- ver returned on demand against bank money at below M. B, 27.12, which difference is applied to the charges of the esta- blishment. Has there been any difference within the last few years in the intrinsic value of bank money ? — Certainly not to my knowledge. Are the several continental coins of the surrounding Coun- tries for which the bank money is exchangeable, the same coins in point of intrinsic value for which the bank money has been exchangeable for some years past, and is the agio also continued the same \ — I am not aware of any difference in the intrinsic value of the current money, of course if any change had taken place in the intrinsic value of coins for which the bank money is exchangeable, a difference would have been mad b the agto. J. /,. Greffulhc] MlKtnrfeS of evidence. (63) To what do you ascribe the fall of exchange between Lon- don and Hamburgh, near eighteen pfeV cent. ? — Altogether to the commercial situation of this Country with the Continent, to the circumstance of the imports and payments of subsidies, &c. having very much exceeded the exports. Do you speak of the last two years ? — Particularly of the last year, it is only within the last year that the exchange haa fdlen so much. Do you judge of the balance of trade having been against this country in the last year, from the state of the exchange, or from your own knowledge of the excess of the imports above the exports? — I certainly judge of it in a great measure by the state of the exchanae, which, according to my appre- hension of the subject, can only be influenced by the balance of trade ; but this is stronglv corroborated by those circum- stances which fall under the general observation of every practical merchant. State those circumstances upon which you found your con- clusion, that in the last year, while the exchange has been low, there has been an actual excess of imports above the exports. — Tt is a notorious circumstance, that imports from several quarters have been most enormous, while the exports, owin£ to political circumstances, have been very much checked. This I consider to receive a very strong proof from the circumstance of most of the articles imported into this Country from the Continent, being here at moderate prices ; such at least as will afford no profit, or very small profit, to the importer ; in fact, some of them considerable loss ; while most of the principal articles of export from this country to the Continent command prices upon the Continent from 50 to 200 and 300 per cent, higher than the prices existing here: which, according to my conception, ciearfy proves that the imports have been superabundant, and exports very much curtailed. Do yon mean that there has been such a difference between the invoice prices? — I am speaking N of the result of any com- mercial adventure, either import or export. When you state this excess of import above export, do yotr mean an excess of amount to the prices you have now stated ? — I mean, that upon striking a balance between the amount- (. — It is. Bv prohibition, do you mean that the Council refuse li- cences ? — They do refuse licences. Are you of opinion, as a Continental merchant, that any considerable export of that article would have taken place in addition to what has actually been exported within the last year, if the export had not been occasionally interrupted ? — Very considerable, I should think. Can you state, for about how much of the last year the ex- port of that article has been interrupted ? — I can only state it loosely from memory ; perhaps about half the year. Are there any other articles of which the export to the Continent has been interrupted ? — Excepting bark, I am not aware of any article of merchandize ; but I ought to advert to foreign coin and Bullion, which, in my opinion, it would have been wise and expedient to allow to export to enemies' ports, but for which the Board of Trade have persisted in re- fusing licences. Has the export of colonial produce to the Continent been considerable w ithin the last year, as compared with the former years ? — It has certainly increased within the last year. Has the excess ot imports above exports, which you have described to have been the general state of trade within the last year, beea owing in any degree to the export being less free than you conceive u might have been ? — Certainly, in some instances ; and particularly at this moment I conceive that the Board of Trade might promote an increase of the ex- ports to France. Proceed to state what other causes you would assign for the present low state of exchange w (K2) (68) MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. [J. L. Greffitlhe. that excess which you have described of the imports above the exports. — I conceive the answer which I have given upon the subject of the excess of imports to apply generally to all Continental exchanges : another principal cause of the low rate of exchange I conceive to be the stoppage of the Ame- rican trade, owing to the restrictions imposed in America, by which Americans have been prevented from carrying their own produce, and the produce of the enemy's colonies, to the Continent of Europe, which would have operated upon the exchange in a great measure as an export from this coun- try, the greater part of the returns of such American exports to the Continent of Europe consisting of goods exported from this country to America. I understand you to mean that such an export from this Coun- try to America would have equalized the excess of imports into this Country from the Continent ? — The export that I alluded to from hence to America would have been paid for by remittances from the Continent arising out of the proceeds of such goods as the Americans would have carried there, which of course would have created a demand for bills upon England, and thereby kept up the exchange. And should not we in the same manner have paid for our excess of imports from the Continent, out of what was due to this Country from America in consequence of these ex- ports ? — Undoubtedly. Is it your opinion, therefore, that the effect of a long con- tinuance of those American acts would be to render us unable to make as large an importation from the Continent as we have latterly done ? — In a great measure, during a certain space of time, if they were strictly carried into effect. Have you any other causes to assign for the present low state of our exchange with the Continent? — I recollect no other commercial circumstance sufficiently material to deserve the attention of the Committee, but the Continental expen- diture of Government for subsidies to foreign powers, pay of troops, and other purposes, has no doubt materially affected the exchanges. Perhaps I should add in reference to the last two or three years, that most export articles have till lately ruled the low prices here, owing to the impediments on the Continent ; of course the sum payable by foreigners for their supplies has been reduced accordingly. J.L.Grefulhe.] minutes of evibencb. (Co) What is the present course of exchange between this Country and Amsterdam ? — The exchange upon Amsterdam is 31.?. 6d. Flemish for a pound sterling. Is that bank money or current ? — Bank money. What is the established par at Amsterdam? — I am not aware of an established par at any foreign place. What do merchants call the established par between Great Britain and Amsterdam ? — I must refer to my last answer: the par of exchange is of no interest to the practical mer- chant ; it is the equality of currencies ; if c 20s. which com- pose a pound sterling, were taken new from the mint and carried to Amsterdam, and there reduced to the Dutch standard, and coined into guilders, the amount of those guil- ders would constitute the par of exchange. Do not you mean that the real par of exchange between any two countries is an equal weight of silver of the same fineness •Xpressed in the respective denominations of the two curren- cies? — Yes, but I do not know that it ought to be taken rather in silver than in Gold. Supposing a par of exchange to be fixed as between two currencies, would not that par of exchange be altered if one of the currencies became debased ? — The course of exchange certainly would. Supposing the par to have been established between Ham- burgh and England, and subsequently to that time that the coin of either Country became debased, would it not happen that, for the convenience of commercial calculation, a new par would be nominally established ? — The convenience of commercial calculation does not require the establishment of a par of exchange ; the intrinsic par or relation of currencies would of course vary according to such debasement, but the effects of the latter would become apparent in the course of exchange. What is the present course of exchange between this Country and Paris ? —At twenty livres for a pound sterling. What is the established par ? — The par of exchange upon Paris has always been considered to be twenty-four livres, I believe; that is certainly not correct, it ought to be nearer twenty-five than twenty four ; it proceeds upon a supposition ef the French half-crown being equal to the English half- (70) MINUTES OF EVIDBNCB. [J, L.Greffulke. crorwn, which is not correct. I have not at present the means of establishing the comparison of the coins, but as near as possible I think it may be stated at something about twenty- five livres. Since you became acquainted with the trade to the Conti- nent, are you aware of any change having taken place in the state of the French currency, by which the exchange may have been affected r — None whatever: an alteration has taken place in the coinage, which is unconnected with the exchange. What change has taken place in the coinage ? - Gold piects of twenty francs have been coined, and the old coin was worth twenty-four livres; these Gold livres are called napoleons. - Has any change taken place in the weight of the silver coin ? ■ — Certainly there has in the weight, but none in the relative value; pieces of six francs have been coined. Are you acquainted with the prices of Gold in the foreign markets ? — I cannot state them accurately from memory. Can you state whether any change or not has taken place in the price of Gold in any of the foreign markets within the last year? — No very material change, that I am aware of. What is the present price of bar Gold, of our standard, at Hamburgh ? — I cannot state it from memory, but J can refer to it. At Hamburgh and Amsterdam, is the price of Gold bullion quoted in bank money ? — At Hamburgh, in bank money ; at Amsterdam, in current money. Do you know whether in any of the foreign markets with which you are acquainted, there is at present an agio upon Gold as exchanged for silver ? — There generally is in all the foreign markets. Js it so at Paris at present? — I cannot at present state. Does your experience, as a merchant dealing in foreign ex- changes, enable you to give an opinion whether the excess of paper currencv in anv Country would have any effect in low- ering the exchange of that Country with others ? — A forced paper currency certainly would. The question goes to an excess of paper currency, whether forced or not ? — I cannot well conceive a paper currency being permanently excessive, unless it is forced. But in the case of a paper currency being forced, is it not J.L.Greffulhe.~\ minutes op evidence. (71) the circumstance of its thereby becoming excessive, ancl not the circumstance merely of its being forced, that has a ten* dency to Idtoer the foreign exchanges ? — I conceive it in the first place to arise from that paper being excessive, and in the next place from that paper representing no real value. Can you state what is the present course of exchange with the United States of America ? — The exchange in America upon England has been in favour of England for a considerable time; (there is no exchange in England upon America). I do not know what it has been very recently, but probably it is lower, perhaps below par, in consequence of considerable ex- ports having lately taken plaee from America : during the suspension of those exports, the exchange of course was in favour of E.igland. T would indeed lay some stress upon this circum>:ance, as supporting my opinion that the exchanges are influenced by commercial causes only. During the de- preciation or English currency on the Continent of Europe, a premium was paid for it in America in hard dollars. The United Stages were then, in a great measure, situated, with respect to England, as England is situated with respect to the Continent of Europe. When speaking of the exports and imports between this Country and the Baltic, did you take into your consideration the quantity and value of Bullion exported? — No ; I onlv al- luded to the relative amount of goods or merchandize. Why do you not consider Bullion as an article of mer- chandize? — I do consider it as an article of merchandize, but I was endeavouring r>rst to slate the difference between £oods imported and exported. T consider the expoitation of Bullion to take place as the means of settling that balance; that dif- ference. Do you conceive that an excess of imports above exports can account for the rates of exchange continuing so high as sixteen percent, against tins Country for a permanent period of time? — I certainly think so. I conceive the cause of the present state or exchange to be entirely commercial, with the exception, I should add, of the payments which Government have had occasion to make upon rhe Continent, in the shape of subsidies, the payment of troops, Sec. (72) minutes op evidence. [J. L. Greffulke* As the par of exchange between two countries is computed on the calculation of the value of the respective currencies, do you not conceive that the rates of exchange will fluctuate with the fluctuations in the intrinsic value of the currency of cither Country ? — Certainly. Is not the present standard Gold coin of the value of af. 3. 17. 104. per ounce ? — It is. Is not the present market price for Gold to export above £. 4. 10. ?— I believe it is £. 4. 10. As the receiving a part of the remittance from Lisbon is paid in paper, and occasions a loss in the exchange of about nine per cent., does not the circumstance of our receiving bank notes in payment in London alter our exchange with fo- reign parts in the proportion of £. 3. 17. 10^-. to j£\ 4. 10. the difference of value between the two ? — In Portugal, bills are paid one half in a forced government paper, which loses a regular per centage compared to specie, in all internal trans- actions. In England we have no forced paper, no difference is made in favour of specie in internal transactions ; and the high price of Bullion against bank notes is only owing to the demand for exportation. The two cases, therefore, are in my opinion quite dissimilar. I conceive that the state of the paper currency of this kingdom, and the state of the ex- changes upon foreign parts, are two subjects almost uncon- nected, and that have but very little influence upon each other. As some corroboration of this opinion, I beg leave to adduce the two following facts, from which it appears that at two several periods, the exchange for a length of time im- proved in favour of this Country, while the amount of bank notes was gradually increasing : — Early in 1 797, when the suspension of cash payments took place, the exchange upon Hamburgh was about 35/, and the amount of bank notes in circulation about 11 millions; the exchange gradually rose during 1797 and 1798 to 38/, and ruled between 38/, and 36/ till July 1799* though at the same time the amount of banknotes increased to 13-±- millions and more: — Again in 1800 and 1801, when the exchange fell nearly to its present rate, viz. under 30/, the amount of bank notes was between 15 and 16 millions j the latter progressively advanced to 18 X £. Grejfulhe. ] minutes of evidexcp. (73) millions and more in ISO?, 3, 4, and 5, while during the same period, the exchange rose to 3-2/ in 1802, 34/ in 1803, 35/ in 1804, and 35/8 in 1S05. If a bill of exchange for ^.100. is remitted to. me from Hamburgh, what do 1 receive for payment ? — A bank note. If my correspondent desires to have gold for that s£. 100. note, how am I to procure it? — Of course you are to buy it at the market price, as you would any other commodity. And then reckoning the difference to be about sixteen per cent., if in the first instance the foreigner could receive Gold, would he not j'.ivc sixteen per cent, mere in exchange? — Yes^ nearly so, because no laws can prevent such Gold from being exported. But were it practicable to enforce the existing pro- hibition completely, it is clear that as the foreigner could not get his ^.100. in Gold coin, he would not pay the additional price for the bill ; Guineas in that case would bear no su- perior value to batik notes, and exportable Gold would sell for .£ A. 10. against Guineas, as it now does against notes* What I mean to prove by this is, that the high price of Gold should not be ascribed to bank notes, but altogether to the foreign demand. If bank paper and Gold exchanged evert, would not the currency to the foreigner of about sixteen per cent, be the supposed difference between the bank note and the Bullion to be purchased? — I do not clearly understand this question. But the low exchange in my opinion does not arise from our receiving bank notes in payment for bills; the specie of the Country is exhausted by our foreign balance, and would not be more abundant, (at least in no degree worth mentioning,) if bank notes were not in existence. Whatever means might in that case be devised to answer the purposes of trade and circulation, Gold and silver would remain equally dear ; that dcarness, therefore, cannot be called a discount on bank notes. If a merchant in Hamburgh sends over to this Country a bale of goods, which he would invoice to his correspondent B( &.IQ0. if he could get Gold in pavment ; must he not now invoice it at £.116 '■ — 1 refer to mv former answer. (74) taittUTEs of evidence, (j. L. Greff tithe. Do I get less foreign money for £.100. bill drawn upon Hamburgh than I used to do? — Yes. If I send a bale of goods thither, do I get more foreign money than 1 used to do, supposing the price of the commo- dity not varied? — Certainly not. If then the goods fetch the same, and the bill drawn fetches less foreign money ; is it not the case that Gold is not varied as to itself, but as to paper? — The foreign money will buy a bill upon this Country to a larger amount. But I must again refer to my former answer. Were the circulation of this Country confined to Gold and silver, which by law is prohibited to be exported, would the exchanges have any effect or influence more than they now have, the payments being principally made in bank notes ? — I conceive it would produce no difference whatever on the rate of exchange, supposing those laws completely carried into effect. You have assigned as the principal cause of the rate of ex- change, the balance of trade being against this Country ; do you not rather mean the balance of payments ? — I certainly meant the balance of payments, having before adverted to the payments of Government for subsidies and other purposes, which are to be taken into the general account. May not the balance of trade therefore be in our favour, while the balance of payments remains against us ? — The ba- lance of payments for the year may be against us, while the general exports exceed the imports. Returns are now, even from neighbouring quarters, and from distant parts of the world may be, delayed not only for months, but for years. You have assigned as a cause of the present low rate of ex- change, the suspension of the American trade with the Con- tinent ; have there not, within the year, been considerable ex- ports from America to Tonningen, and other parts adjacent ? My remark was made generally ; but to render it quite correct, I certainly ought to say the partial stoppage of communication. Have not those supplies to the Continent which used to go directly from America, within these last twelve months pro- ceeded from this Country, through the medium of Heligoland? and if so, would not such exports produce the same effect J. L. Greffulhe.'] minutes op evidence. (75) upon the exchange as if they had gone from America? — A considerable trade has, no doubt, been carried on through He- ligoland, but only very partially, consisting in articles derived from America. Supposing the metallic currency of any Country should, from any cause, become excessive, and the means of export- ing Bullion or specie from that Country should at the same time be effectually obstructed, do you conceive that such a state of things would tend to create a course of exchange un- favourable to the Country st) circumstanced? — That surplus of currency would, in my opinion, certainly tend to enhance the price of all commodities, and to depreciate the exchange. But I do not conceive this to "be applicable to the Bank paper currency of this kingdom, which, from its nature and from the manner in which it ought to be, and I believe is issued, can scarcely, in my opinion, be carried to an excess ; it is only called forth by the real wants of trade and circulation, and is always represented by a valuable consideration. I con- ceive, that as long as bills of undoubted solidity are sent into the Bank for discount, the Bank are fully justified in issuing their notes against those bills, without any fear oi the amount of their currency becoming excessive. The increase jn the amount of bank notes in circulation within these few years, is, in mv opinion, accounted for, in the first place, by the increased commerce of the Country, and in the next place by the increase of the public debt and the consequent taxation, which has the effect of enhancing the prices of all commodi- ties ;. anil the amount of currency required for the purpose of facilitating the exchange of those commodities, or, in other words, for trade and circulation, must naturally increase in the same proportion. When you say " enhance the price of all commodities," do you include foreign bills of exchange among those com- modities? — Certainly not ; f am now alluding to the internal concerns of the kingdom, which I conceive to be altogether distinct from its foreign trade. Do you then conceive, that to whatever extent the Bank affords facility of discount, either to the Government or to in- dividuals, provided the security be good, and payable at fixed dates, that no pxcgM of circulation in bank paper can possibly (l 8) (76) minutes of evidence. [J. L. Greffulhe. take place ? — I conceive that the wants of the circulation arc of course confined to a certain sum ; whatever proportion of that sum is invested by the Bank in government securities, will diminish in the same proportion the calls of the public upon the Bank for discounts ; the amount of notes, therefore in circulation, will remain the same. The point where, in my opinion, the Bank ought to stop in such purchases of government securities, is when good responsible bills are no longer sent into the Bank by the public for discount ; that [ conceive to be a certain sign of the wants of circulation being fully supplied, and any subsequent issue becomes, in my opinion, an excess of paper currency. Suppose an advance to be made upon goods that maybe pledged with the Bank instead of bills, would that, in your opinion, create an excess of circulation? — I conceive it to be highly proper that the securities discounted by the Bank should be payable at short and fixed periods. Do you conceive that all that would be requisite to prevent a depreciation of paper currency in any Country would be, that such paper should in no instance be issued but as the re- presentative of a good security, payable at a fixed period ? — ? I answer that in the affirmative certainly. Do you conceive that there exists the same security for the public against the inconvenience of an excess of circulation when the payments in cash at the Bank are suspended, as when the Bank was at liberty and under obligation to make its payments in cash ? — I conceive so, if the Bank strictly ad- here to the system of discounting no bills but of undoubted solidity, and government securities ; the latter with due mo- deration, and the caution pointed out before. Are you aware of the practice that prevails among coun- try bankers, with respect to discounts and advances in their paper?— I partly am. What is that practice? — The country banks are in the prac- tice, I believe, of issuing notes upon the security of goods, houses, and lands, in addition to the ordinary discount of bills of exchange. Of course the security upon which those advances are made, js not convertible at any fixed period ? — I believe not. Bo you conceive that from this practice of the country Mr. •] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE, (77) batiks, an excessive circulation may arise ? — I am inclined to think that the system of country banking has been carried too far in this respect. Are you of opinion that if the country bankers confine their advances within the same limits as to the description of security which prevails in the Bank of England, that the ac- commodation afforded by them to the public could not lead to any excess in the circulation ? — I believe not ; 1 think the same principle will apply to the country banks that I applied to the bank of England. Then assuming there to be some excess in the circulation, the cause to which you would ascribe it is this practice of the country banks? — I am inclined to think so. Is it voir opinion that there is now, or has been at any time, such excess in the circulation ? — 1 believe at some periods certainly too much facility has been shewn by the pouritry banks in the issuing their paper. Do you think that inconvenience exists, or has existed, within the last six months?— 1 should think it fyas, and now (does in some degree. Veneris, die 2 a Martii, 1*5 10. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Mr. , z Continental Merchant, called in, and Examined. ARE you acquainted with the subject of the exchnnee be- tween this Country and Hamburgh ?•*— 1 am, and with other foreign Countries. What is the present rate of exchange between this Country and Hamburgh ? — The rate of exchange from this Country on Hamburgh has varied lately : the last post it was quoted at about twenty-nine, which means twenty-nine shillings Fle- mish lor one pound sterling. Is the shilling Flemish, or the stiver, a real coin? — The ^hilling Flemish is not a coin no more than the banco marc, Which banco represents a certain weight of silver. A shilling Flemish means MX Stivers bailee . irgh, and sixteen (76) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. « »• stivers banco are one marc banco. In the actual currency too, sixteen stivers are equal to one marc. Then does the banco marc represent a fixed quantity of sil- ver of n. fixed fineness? — Yes; for 27 marcs 12 stivers banco, you get one marc of Cologne weight of silver, perfectly fine, •without any aliov ; that is, for one banco marc, you get lO T y T gran. Col. of such silver. Can you compare the marc Cologne with English weight? — Sixty-five ounces of English standard silver contain eight marcs of Cologne fine silver. What do you state to be the real par of exchange from England on Hamburgh ?-— I first wish to state 'my general idea of a par of exchange ; it is the expression in the coins or denominations of the two currencies which are compared, of an equal weight of silver of the same fineness. I have ao idea how a par can be ascertained without the precious metals being the foundation. The Hamburgh currency is founded on silver, and the British currency is principally founded on Gold; the par of exchange cannot therefore be ascertained without fixing a relative value between these two metals. If the relative value of these two metals in the Bullion market be known, and be the same in two Countries, may not the par of exchange be ascertained between those two Coun- -tries, although the currency of the one be Gold, and that of the other silver ? — Yes, provided the exportation and impor- tation of Gold and silver be perfectly free. Between two such Countries, does not the par of exchange vary with the variations in the relative value of the two pre- cious metals ? — Yes ; the pur will vary if the relative value of the two metals varies. And if the relative value of the two precious metals varies unequally in the two countries at the same time, must not that inequality be likewise taken into the calculation in ascertain- ing the par? — Yes, it must. State in what manner you apply those general ideas to the statement of the par of exchange as between England and Ham- burgh ? — Taking Gold at the. coinage price of gt.3. 17. 10', and taking it at Hamburgh at what we call its par, which is 9f> stivers banco for a duett, and further reducing 55 ounces of standard Gold, as being equal to 45y ducats, it- produces a JVfr, .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (79) par of exchange of 34/3^ Flemish for a pound sterling: a ducat contains at the raic of 230,- carats in 24. What do you mean by the par of Gold at Hamburgh ? — I mean the par of its value in banco, which is not fixed by law, and which in fact varies daily, but which is called 96 stivers banco for a ducat. In ordinary times, has not coin at Hamburgh an extrinsic value above the same weight of the same metal in the shape of Bullion ? — It has at Hamburgh. Must not this extrinsic value be taken into account in esti- mating the par of exchange ? — No, not the par, in my opinion, upon the principle which I have already explained, but it may affect the course of exchange. If the guinea were reduced a pennyweight, would it not alter the par of exchange ? — Yes, certainly. You have stated the present course of exchange from Eng- land upon Hamburgh to be 29 or thereabouts, how much does this differ per cent, from the par you have mentioned ? — About 15 per cent. What is the present course of exchange of Hamburgh upon London ? — About 28. What is the cause of this difference between the course from Hamburgh upon London, and that from London upon Ham- burgh ? — The major part of the exchange operations between Hamburgh and London being carried on at Hamburgh, the course of exchange is principally fixed there, and receives its first impulse at Hamburgh; the course from London upon Hamburgh is regulated in a great measure by that from Ham- burgh upon London : thus, when there are more bills than required for actual payments, merchants employ their capital partly in purchasing of surplus bills, and sending them to London to get returns; they have, therefore, to take into then calculation the amount of interest on the bills so sent, as well as on those received in return, together with two brokerages and a commission to the London merchant, which, at the rate of 5 per cent, interest, without any other profit, amounts to a difference of about \s. Flemish in the pound sterling. When the diffieulties of communication arc greater, and the penal restriciions increase the dangers and difficulties of such trans- actions, an additional advantage is required by the curtailed (80) tvlINUTES Or EVIDENCE. [Mr. — r, number of adventurers going into such transactions ; and thus, when those difficulties existed to the greatest extent, the dif- ference of exchange was full Qs. Flemish. Do not transactions of the same sort in the purchase of the surplus hills take place upon the London exchange? — Yes, but not to half the amount they do at Hamburgh. What does the current money of Hamburgh consist of?— The coiri6 in use to the greatest extent are the currency of all the surrounding states, such as Denmark, Hanover, Prussia^ Saxony ; in fact all the neighbourhood. Are English guineas current there ? — No, not current. What is the reason why English guineas do not form a part of" the Hamburgh currency, like the coins of other neighbour- ing countries? — The restrictions which are imposed upon the exportation of coin from this Country do not exist in the States just now alluded to. Guineas are only exported when the intrinsic quantity of Gold they contain makes it worth while to melt them, and at a period when the rate of exchange is so much below par as to afford a considerable premium for so dangerous an undertaking, and when it cannot he worth any body's while to speculate in the purchase of them there, to return to England at a distant period, when the exchange must have risen so very considerably as to make it worth their while to return them. If English guineas were freely exported, so as to become current at Hamburgh, is it your opinion that the same temp- tation would exist to the melting of them? — No, not in my opinion, because the rate of exchange could then never be much below par, and the prospect of selling them at a short period again above par would induce people to keep them in their original state. If under a system of free exportation, guineas were at any time sent out from England to restore an unfavourable ex- change with Hamburgh, occasioned by the balance of pay- ments, is it likely that the same guineas would, upon the ex- change being restored, find their way back to England ? — Yes;. and more particularly so if in this country a moderate seigniory were put upon the coin : for instance, in Holland, where they coin millions of ducats, the more that goes out the better is their Government pleased, because they make so much ths Mr. .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (81) more profit; in consequence of which, the Dutch ducat has become the most universal coin all over the Continent. Is not that gain to the Government, and loss to the public, in the degree that the seigniorage is paid ? — Not to the people of Holland, in as far as it is principally paid by foreign na- tions ; it exists equally upon every coin. Has not a large quantity of circulating specie a powerful tendency to steady the course of exchange? — Yes, certainly, when its importation and exportation are not prohibited, and as forming the only basis that regulates the par of exchange. Is not then any country, whose chief circulation is in paper, likely to- experience great fluctuations in the course of ex- change with other nations ? — When that paper is not con- vertible into cash, it only represents, in my opinion, an ideal and not a real value, subject to public opinion, and conse- quently liable to the very great fluctuations which public opinions are subject to. Does the current money of Hamburgh consist chiefly of silver or Gold ? — Principally of silver. Does the currency of Hamburgh consist in any degree of paper ? — No, with one exception ; the bank of Altona issues some notes, payable on demand, which are convertible at all times into what they represent. Are they for small or large sums ? — I think the lowest one of the value of two guineas. Do those notes appear in large or in small payments at Hamburgh ? — They are not much made use of at Hamburgh, but are meant more as an accommodation to the transactions in Holstein. Is there not an agio at Hamburgh for banco above the cur- rent money ? — Not according to my ideas ; but on the con- trary, it is the different current coins that bear an inferior value to the bank money, and which vary daily; every thing there being valued according to bank money, or a certain weight of fine silver. Could you, by depositing a hundred pound weight of fine silver in the bank of Hamburgh, purchase such a credit in the bank as would enable you at pleasure to take out an equal quantity of fine silver? — If the deposit is made in the old specie dollars, upon which the bank of Hamburgh was founded (II) (82) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. . about two centuries ago, the difference would not amount to above one per mil : as this coin has in a great measure dis- appeared, the principle of the Bank is now carried on more upon silver in bars of a great degree of fineness : the expence of refining, therefore, being taken into the calculation, the difference at present between such bars being given in or taken out of the bank, amounts to nearly one-half per cent. to defray^their expences : thus the bank invariably gives credit for a marc weight of fine silver at 27 marcs 10 stivers banco ; and if taken out, they value it at 27 marcs and 12 stivers. You have stated, that while the value of banco money remains quite fixed, the value of all the circulating coins relatively to banco fluctuates ; what are the circumstances to which that fluctuation is owing? — Partly an increased demand, arising from a variety of causes, and further, the state of the trade between the respective Countries whose coins you allude to : for example, if the balance of trade between Hamburgh and any of the neighbouring States, from any sudden causes, should be very unfavourable to a great extent against such State, their coin will at Hamburgh fetch no more than what it will produce in fine silver when melted down. Do you mean, that under certain circumstances of trade, the banco value of silver coins at Hamburgh may be so af- fected, that you will for a certain quantity of such coins get credit in the bank for more or less than the actual quantity of fine silver contained in that quantity of those coins ? — The bank of Hamburgh receives no coins but a certain specie of dollars before alluded to, and bars of silver of 15 lot. 12 gran, per marc fine, which is 15 £ in 16 parts : the holders of such coins therefore, if they require to convert them into banco, must themselves get them refined to the necessary standard in bars. Is silver of the fineness required, when received by the bank, always entered to the credit of the bringer, at the same banco value r — Yes ; this banco value represents nothing but a certain weight of fine silver. Is the account kept by the bank in the nature of a stock account, or a cash account ? — The nature of the bank is a simple deposit of fine silver, transferable from one person's -account to another. Mr. .] MINUTES OP EVIDExNCE. (83) Does the bank at Hamburgh receive Gold in the same man- ner ? — No, nor does it even advance money upon a deposit of Gold : being liable to be called upon tor silver and nothing else, they might thus not be able to fulfil their engagements. Upon Spanish dollars they advance a moderate sum, on the principle that they can reduce them to that which they are liable to be called upon for. Lunce, 5° die Mart ii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Mr. , a Continental Merchant, again called in, and Examined. HAVE you ever known the exchange to fall to the extent of 12 to 15 per cent, in any part of Europe, in which it was computed in coin containing a fixed quantity of Gold or silver, or in paper or Bank money exchanged at a fixed agio either for such Gold or silver coin, or for Gold or silver Bullion of a definite amount ?— No, never, except in coun- tries where the export of their currency lias been effectually prohibited ; such as Sweden. Is it to Sweden only that you refer in making that exception ? — I do not just now recollect any other country where paper resting upon the foundation of coin, the latter is effectually prevented from being exported. How is that prohibition made effectual in Sweden ? — By the Bank not issuing specie to any amount when the exchange is depreciated. What is the extent to which you conceive that the exchange is capable of falling in any country in Europe at the present time, supposing it to be computed in coin of a definite value, or in something convertible into a definite quantity of Gold or silver Bullion ? — The charge of transporting it, together with an adequate profit in proportion to the risk the trans- mitting such specie is liable to, would be the extent of the fluctuation. Can you state how much per cent, may be the present (MS) (84) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. . expence and risk of transporting Gold from London to Am- sterdam or Hamburgh, or .any other principal places of trade on the Continent ? — Independent of the premium of insurance, it would be from 1£ to 2 per cent, from London to Hamburgh. What do you conceive to be the amount of the risk ? — The risk is so very variable from day to day, that it is impossible for me to state any fixed premium. What do you conceive to have been the average risk for the last fifteen months ? — About 4 per cent. Do you not then conceive, that such fall of our exchange as has exceeded the sum necessary to compensate for the expence of transporting Gold and silver in the last fifteen months, must be referred to the circumstance of the exist- ence of a paper currency not convertible into specie ? — Yes, certainly. Do you conceive then, that out of the 15 or 20 per cent, which the English exchange has fallen in the last fifteen months, the larger proportion of from 10 to 12 or 13 percent, may be referable to the circumstance of our paper currency not being convertible to cash ? — I am clearly of that opinion. Do vou then consider our paper as depreciated 10 to 13 per cent, in consequence of its non-convertibility into cash ? — As I value every thing by Bullion, I conceive the paper cur- rency of this Country to be depreciated to the full extent of the 15 to 20 per cent.; or rather, the difference in this Country between the price of Bullion and the rate by which the coin is issued from the Mint. Do you conceive the balance of trade with the Continent of Ljirope to be now for or against this Country ? — I conceive it to be considerably in favour of this Country, though not to the extent as generally stated in figures, those figures re- presenting in my mind only about 80 per cent, of their nominal value,. What do you mean by stating that the balance is not so favourable as is generally represented in figures, those figures being only 80 per cent, of their nominal value? — As I value paper by the Quantity of Bullion it will obtain, and as it will not obtain above 80 per cent, of that which is represented upon the face of it, I conceive the balance to be diminished in an equal proportion. J\f r . .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE, (R5) Will not the same observation apply to the imports ? — Yes ; and therefore I do not state it upon both, but only upon the balance. Supposing the Bank had for the last fifteen months paid in cash, and that guineas had been in general circulation, might not an unfavourable balance of trade have caused a fall in the exchange, to the extent of 5 or 6 per cent. ? — Hardly so much ; as speculations would have been entered into anticipating more favourable circumstances. Can you state to the Committee in what manner and de* gree the exchanges in any parts of the Continent first expe- rienced a fall in those places in which a paper circulation not convertible into cash, or into any definite quantity of Bullion, has been introduced ; and in particular, can you specify the extent of the fall which soon took place, and the period for which it lasted, antecedently to the establishment of any cur- rent or established agio or discount between the paper and the Bullion or coin of the country ? — To the best of my recollec- tion, a depreciation in the exchanges has always taken place whenever a paper currency has been put into circulation, that was not convertible into cash. The strongest instance is that of assignats in France. At the present moment we have a very strong instance in the paper currency of Austria and Denmark, where a forced paper circulation exists ; in conse- quence of which the exchanges upon those Countries have varied in proportion to the difficulties that they have laboured under, and in proportion to the confidence founded in public opinion with regard to the credit such paper was entitled to. I do not know of any paper currency on the Continent that^ is not convertible at all times into cash, which is founded at all upon a similar system of solidity to that in this Country, where, although the paper may not represent what is expressed upon the face of it, it does represent a something in fact equally real, though not applicable to equalize the balance of trade. Are not all the banks upon the Continent, government banks ? — The most of them are, and it is those I allude to ; as such as are not under control of government, are obliged to fulfil their engagements. Do not those which are not under government, limit the (86) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. — . quantity of their paper; and is not its value in exchange for coin perfectly sustained? — Yes; for if they did not, they would be liable to suspend their payments. Do not the government banks assist the government by loans of money, and extend their paper as their means of furnishing such loans?— Yes; those I have alluded to, do so in the fullest extent. Is not in fact the paper issued by one department of the government itself? — Yes, certainly. Do you not conceive that the quantity of paper issued by those banks has an influence on its price ? — Yes, certainly ; and we have seen a strong instance of it last summer, when, from the extraordinary exertions of the Austrian government, a considerable additional issue became necessary, in conse- quence of which the exchange on that Country fell an addi- tional 50 per cent., and Gold coin fetched from three to four times its nominal value there. Did the Austrian and Danish governments receive their pa- per at its nominal value in the liquidation of imposts? — Yes, in a great measure from necessity, as hardly any coin was to be seen in those Countries. That was at the same time that an agio actually existed in those Countries ?~Yes, it was. Do you conceive that the quantity of bank paper in Eng- land influences its price, and has an effect upon the exchange ? — In my opinion, the same principles attach themselves to bank paper as to any other commodity, when carried to a cer- tain extent. Do you not conceive that the limitation of bank paper has a general tendency to improve the exchange, and to augment its price? — Its price would certainly, in my opinion, be enhanced by its limitation, or, what is the same thing, the nominal value of every article would be reduced : when this reduction had brought the price of Bullion to the Mint value, the exchange would be at near par. A further diminution of this, or any other circulating medium, would not tend to raise the exchange. Does the paper issued by private banks and individuals, under existing circumstances, in your opinion affect the general va- lue of paper ? — In my opinion, much more so than that issued by the Bank of England, because, if I am justly informed, Mr. .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (87) the Bank of England makes the greatest proportion of their issues only upon securities convertible at short-periods; where- as the paper of individuals is to a certain extent frequently ad- vanced, and represents that which cannot be brought into circulation, and thus may be doubly represented. Do you not conceive that there is a most essential difference between the government banks on the Continent and the Bank of England, inasmuch as the government banks on the Continent make their issues of paper subservient to the con- venience of government, whereas the Bank of England limits its loan according to its own discretion, and is in no degree dependent, in respect to the amount of its loans, upon the Government ? — I believe I stated before, that there is no go- vernment bank on the Continent that rests upon the same principles of solid foundation as that in this Country, where the principles adopted are the same as would be followed by any prudent individual in his own concerns, and where the advances to Government are both optional and limited to what appears a very small proportion of their capital, and which, as well as their other issues, is convertible and comes round at short periods, substituting a moral for a physical tender; which in many cases, when it rests upon a solid foundation, is far preferable for internal circulation. Do you ascribe what you call a depreciation of the paper of Great Britain, in any degree to an opinion of any insufficiency of the Bank of England to fulfil all its engagements ? — No, by no means; but to the circumstance of their not allowing Bullion to perform those functions for which it seems to have been intended by nature. Supposing the assets of the Bank of England to be noto- riously equal to the repayment of even five times the amount of their paper at present in circulation, do you not conceive that, if their present issues were to be even doubled, the value of their paper would be diminished ? — Having never heard the solidity of the Bank of England doubted, either at home or abroad, I do not conceive that this would alter the present si- tuation ; and in proportion as the quantity of paper was in- creased, it must tend to lower its value when issued beyond what the circulation of the country requires. Supposing thai all the discounts of the Bank of England (88) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. — -^ were made in the metallic currency of this Country, and that no paper currency whatever was known in their circulation, and that they could multiply those discounts in Gold to any extent they pleased; and supposing that, at the same time, the means of exporting Bullion or specie from this Country should be effectually obstructed ; do you conceive that such a state of things would tend to create a course of exchange unfavourable to this country ? — Yes, certainly, the same as if a solid paper system existed : but as it is proved that no penal laws can re- tain coin in the Country, when the temptation is sufficiently great to export it, this is a position that in fact could not take place. Then you conceive that if the circulation of the Country consisted altogether of Gold, and was carried to the same amount as it now exists in paper, the rates of exchange with other foreign Countries would be the same as they now are, if the supposition of the former question could be real ? — As I do not conceive that that is possible, I think the exchange would feel the effects of such a change in its circulation, partly in proportion to the degree that the exportations of coin would take place ; but more particularly from the circumstance, that people would speculate upon such operations taking place, and thus opinions would raise the exchange nearly as much as an actual exportation of Bullion. To what causes do you ascribe the present unfavourable course of exchange ? — The first great depreciation took place when the French got possession of the North of Germany, and passed severe penal decrees against a communication with this Country, at the same time that a sequestration was laid upon all English goods and property, whilst the payments for English account were still to be made, and the reimbursements to be taken on this Country ; many more bills were in conse- quence to be sold than could be taken by persons requiring to make payments in England. The communication by letters being also very difficult and uncertain, middle men were not to be found, as in usual times, to purchase and send such bills to England for returns; whilst no suit at law could be instituted in the courts of justice there against any person who chose to resist payment of a returned bill, or to dispute the charges of re-exchange. Whilst those causes depressed the J\f r . —."J MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (89) exchange, payments clue to England only came round at di- stant periods. The exchange once lowered hy those circum- stances, and Bullion being withheld in England to make up those occasional differences, the operations between this Coun- try and the Continent have continued at a low rate, as it is only matter of opinion what rate a pound sterling is there to be valued at, not being able to obtain what it is meant to re- present. You have stated your opinion, that the unfavourable state of the exchange was occasioned by the decrees of the enemy prohibiting trade with this Country ; did not the prohibition on our pan of the American trade to the Continent, in a great degree aggravate the unfavourable state of the exchange ? — As nearly the whole of the American importations into thcCon- tinent are remitted by bills to this Country, it must have had that effect in as far as it prevented, the American trade going there; and further, I am of opinion that the exchange would be much lower at this moment, if it were not for the impor- tations received from America into Holstein during the last six months. What improvement has taken place in the state of our ex- change within the last fortnight ? — Between three and four per cent. What demand of bills on England has been the cause of this improvement in the present state of, exchange ? — Princi- pally, I believe it to be a great demand for bills upon the American property since the sequestration which had taken place in Holstein having beeu withdrawn, and partly by the payments of other importations during the summer from this Country .to the Continent coming round, which are not at present, as formerly, anticipated. Supposing no alteration to. have taken place in the paper circulation of this Country, do you not believe, that if the balance of the trade <-f this Country with the Continent had bet- n in our favour during the last year, that the present unfa- vourable state of exchanges could not have existed, all other Ciruuin -tances affecting the intercourse of this Country with the Continent remaining the same ? — I have lately changed my opinion on this subject, and do not think that this balance of trade is the only regulator of the exchange when Bullion is withheld ; but in that case public opinion is substituted; for (N) (go) minutes of evidence. [J. IVhitm&re. the same exchange may continue to take place at a reduced rate if both parties are satisfied. The exchange against England fluctuating from 15 to 20 per cent.; how much of that loss do you think may be ascribed to the effect of the measures taken by the enemy in the North of Germany, and the interruption of intercourse which has been the result, and how much to the effect of the Bank of England paper not being convertible into cash, to which you have ascribed a part of that depreciation ? — I ascribe the whole of the depreciation to have taken place originally in consequence of the measures of the enemy ; and its not having' recovered, to the circumstance of the paper of England not being exchangeable for cash. Mart is, 6° die Martii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. John IVhitmore, Esq. Governor of the Bank of England, called in, and Examined. DO you consider the amount of Bank of England notes during the last year to have borne nearly the same proportion to the occasions of the public as in former times ? — The same proportion exactly. In ascertaining that proportion, have you taken into con- sideration any increase of economy in the use of them among persons in the Metropolis, or any diminution of the quantity of them circulating in the Country, through the increase of country bank notes ? — I do not very well comprehend what is meant by the economy in the use of them. We understand by it such improvement in banking, and in the system of effecting payments, as renders the same quantity of Bank notes equal to a larger amount of payments than be- fore. — I am not at all sensible of any improvement that can have had any effect upon the amount of them. Do you conceive that the quantity of Bank of England notes circulating in the Country has been at all diminished by any increase in the quantity of country bank notes ? — The Bank has no means of knowing the quantity of Bank of England notes in circulation in the country. It is to be presumed, if J. IVhitmore.] minutes of evidenxe. (91) there has been any increased circulation of country bank notes, that it must have driven the London Bank notes out of circulation ; but that is only a presumption on my part. Do you not conceive that many country banks may not have generally in their possession a smaller stock of Bank of England notes than heretofore, in consequence of their having for many years experienced no run upon them, and of their confidence having consequently increased ? — I really have so little knowledge of country banking, that I have not the means of information to answer that question. When you represent the quantity of Bank of England notes to be now only proportionate, as heretofore, to the occasions of the public, do you take into consideration the increased price of all articles, and the consequent increase of the amount of payments ; and do you assume that the quantity of notes ought to be increased in proportion to that increase of the amount of payments ? — The Bank never force a note into cir- culation, and there will not remain a note in circulation more than the immediate wants of the public require; for no banker, I presume, will keep a larger stock of bank notes by him than his immediate payments require, as he can at all times procure them. To illustrate this, the daily Government purchases of stock, which are paid for in Bank of England notes at an early part of the day, will, I believe, be found to be bought frequently at a lower price than the other purchases of the day. My observation is, that the Commissioners have bought at a lower price than the public. [Question repeated.] I have taken into consideration uot only the increased price of all articles, but the increased demands upon us from other causes. What other cause9 do you refer to ? — The other causes that I refer to are the increased importation from abroad, and th increased public revenue of the Country, and the increase of the London payments in general. Antecedently to the suspension of the cash payments of the Bank, was it not the practice of the Directors to restrain in some degree their loans or discounts, in the event of their ex- periencing any great demand upon them for guineas ? — The JJank always act with that prudent caution, that their advances. (N2) (92) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. J. WhilmOYC*] to the public upon discount can be called in in two months., or at furthest 90 days. [Question repeated.] A short time antecedently to the restriction upon the Bank, they were seriously alarmed at a diminution of their coin, and did in some degree limit iheir advances, both to the public and to Government. I would wish to be understood, that they do now set limits to their advances according to circum- stances, and as their discretion may direct them. The question goes to this ; whether, antecedently to the suspension in 1797, a drain for guineas did not suggest to the Directors a restriction of their advances : for instance, did they not on this ground refuse to make the accustomed advances on the loan in 1783, when the drain of their Gold was parti- cularly great ? — I am not prepared to speak to dates; but I have a recollection only of one instance, when the advance upon the loan was withheld. I believe that instance was in 1783, but I did not come into the Direction till 1786. Can you state generally, whether antecedently to the sus- pension of the cash payments, the Directors considered a drain upon them for guineas as a reason for restraining at all their loans or discounts? — I apprehend it was done upon a view of that and every other circumstance that attended the state of their affairs at that time : I think, in point of pru- dence, that it ought to have been a reason at that period. Can you say whether in point of fact, prior to the suspen- sion, such a reason ever did operate with them to restrain their advances ? — Such a reason, connected with others, did cer- tainly. Did not the Bank Directors urge the repayment of part of their loan to Government, as well as restrain their dis- counts, in the end of 1796 and the beginning of 1797, in consequence of their finding a large portion of their Gold to be drawn from them at that time ? — I recollect repeated appli- cations to the Minister of that day, Mr. Pitt, for him to re- duce the amount of the advances the Bank had made to Go- vernment. I would wish to add to this, that at that period the Bank had advanced to Government a large sum upon trea- sury acceptances, which was the most objectionable part of the advance in the contemplation of the Directors. I perfectly J.lFlutmore.') minutes of evidence. (93) well remember the Bank limiting a certain sum of discount to be made to each commercial house appking for it ; that was the mode of diminishing the whole amount of discount. I wish also to add, that afterwards in the contemplation of many of the Directors, this last was a measure to be regretted under the then circumstances,, on account of the very considerable embarrassment and inconvenience occasioned by it to the mercantile world. To the best of my recollection this limita- tion of the discounts was some time before ihe suspension of the cash payments. Did not this diminution of the discounts produce a dimi- nution of the bank paper in circulation ? — In point of fact, I am not prepared to answer that question ; but as an opinion, I am prepared to sav, that the diminution of the aggregate of our advances, as well to Government as to individuals, must have that effect. Was there not in that period, between the limitation of dis- counts and the suspension of cash payments, a diminution of the aggregate of your advances ? — I really am not prepared to say. Supposing Gold to be drawn from the Bank to be then melted and exported, would there not be a reduction of your paper m consequence of notes having been brought in to ex- change for Gold, and then cancelled ? — Yes, provided we did not re issue an equal amount. , Could you so re-issue an equal amount, without enlarging in that proportion the amount of your discounts ? - We could re-issue an equal amount by the purchase of exchequer b.lls or Bullion, or by discounts ; being the only articles on which we make advances. Supposing that in such a case of a demand upon you for guineas, the Bank had come to the determination of diminish- ing in some degree the aggregate of their advances, won! J not the amount of their paper in circulation be diminished boih by that diminution of the advances, and by the amount of the paper which had been brought in for guineas ?— Most un- questionably ; as much of our paper as we do not re issue is a diminution of it. Even if you should not, in such a case, resort to the mea- sure ot diminishing the aggregate of your advances, would not a diminution of your paper in circulation take place in conse- (94) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. Whlimort* quence of the drain upon you for Gold ? — r t would, in pro- portion to the quantity of notes cancelled for the Gold issued in exchange for them, provided we did not increase our quan- tity of advances. If you re-issued the notes brought to you for guineas, in such a case, would not they be again returned and draw more guineas from you? — As long as it would continue to be a profitable trade. When I speak of re-issuing notes, I mean issuing the amount of those notes, for we do not usually re-issue the same notes. Do you conceive that the limitation of the sum total of your Joans, and consequently also of your notes, which to :k place in 17^3, had the good effect which was intended by it, of di- minishing the drain for guineas ? — I am not prepared to speak to the facts at this distance of time, and not having been then \n the direction. If the Bank were not restricted from paying in guineas, and a great demand for them took place, do you conceive that the course the Bank would adopt, with a view to check such drain, would be to diminish the amount of their advances either to Government or to individuals ?— In answer to that question, I would say, that with a view to the Bank's own preservation, it undoubtedly ought to pursue that measure; but it must greatly depend upon the circumstances which would accom- pany such demand upon us for advances. Can you state any other mode by which you conceive that such a drain of guineas would be checked? — 4 Juiow of no other measure. In point of fact, is it not the measure to which the Bank did recur on all occasions prior to the restriction, whenever any extraordinay drain of Gold took place? — I have already, I believe, answered that question, by saying that the Bank did„ m a former instance, limit their advances. In what mode is it that a diminution of advances by the Bank operates to lessen and put an end to a drain of guineas ? — Because there is a din mands against the Bank. Would not that drain continue, notwithstanding such dimi- nished amount of outstanding demands, if the market price of Gold continued in the same proportion of excess to the Mint price ? — I conceive it would, so long as the dealers in Gold JjFhilmorc.) minutes of evidence. (95) can get a bank note to bring to the Bank and demand guineas for it. You have staled, that a diminution of the outstanding de- mands against the Bank diminishes the drain of guineas, and also that the drain would continue so long as the excess of the market price above the Mint price of Gold continued the same; is the Committee to understand that the diminution of these outstanding demands has, in your opinion, a tendency to lessen such excess ? — In my opinion, it has no bearing upon the price of Bullion. Then in what manner does a diminution of outstanding demands lessen the drain? — The lessened demands that can possibly be made upon us from the smaller amount of notes in circulation. Why should the smaller amount of notes in circulation lessen the inducements of the holders of these notes to convert them into Gold? — I presume that all the holders of bank notes are not dealers in Gold, and they would not let their notes go out of their possession for that purpose. But may not those who are disposed to deal in Gold become possessors of notes equally as before the diminution of the out- standing demands ? — T conceive in that case an alarm would be created, and the holders of notes would hoard them as they have done guineas upon other occasions of alarm. Would not the hoarding of such notes raise the value of those that remained in circulation ? —I have no doubt it would. Would it be raised in exchange for Bullion? — I should think not. By what criterion do you judge that its value is raised ? — I have gone upon a supposition, that the value of the Bullion abroad still afforded a profit upon the exportation of it from this Country ; and until the price of the Bullion here exceeds the price abroad, there would not be wherewithal to exchange for bank notes. Supposing that the consequence of bank notes beine; ren- dered more scarce by a diminution of outstanding demands against the Bank, and the consequent hoarding of them, as led in a former answer, should be to raise their value ten p-r cent. ; and that bef .due was so raised, the price of Bullion on the Continent was six per cent, higher than the Mint price in England; would not the effect of this raising (96) MINUTES' OP EVIDENCE. [Mr. . the value of the bank note be, to put a stop to all further de- mand for Bullion? — That is a question of calculation, that if the Bullion can be brought back into this Country, by giving more for it here than they can obtain for it abroad, the demand for it here for exportation must cease. Supposing the excess of the market price of Gold above the Mint price to be five per cent., and that in consequence, a drain of guineas takes place from the Bank, and the Bank, by diminishing the amount of its outstanding demands, raises the value of its paper five per cent, in the manner described in a former answer, would not the result be to bring the market and the Mint price of Gold to a par, and consequently to put a stop to the demand for guineas ? — I wish for time to consi- der of an answer. Mercurii, 7° die Martii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Mr. , a Continental Merchant again called in, and Examined. SINCE the conduct of the Enemy which you have de- scribed, what other causes have continued to operate on the Continent to lower the course of exchange ? — Very conside- rable shipments from the Baltic, which were drawn for and the bills negociated immediately on the shipments taking place, without consulting the interest of the Proprietors in this Country much, by deferring such a negotiation till a demand should take place for such bills ; the continued difficulty and uncertainty in carrying on the correspondence between this; Country and the Continent; the curtailed number of houses to be found on the Continent willing to undertake such ope- rations, either by accepting bills for English account, drawn from the various ports where shipments take place, or by ac- cepting bills drawn from this Country, either against property shipped, or on a speculative idea that the exchange either ought or is likely to rise; the length of time that is required before goods can be converted into cash, from the circuitous routes they are obliged to take; the very large sums of mo- ney paid to foreign ship owners, which in some instances, such as on the article of hemp, has amounted to nearly its ?,f r . .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (97) prime cost in Russia ; the want of middle men. who, as for- merly, used to employ great capitals in exchange operations, who, from the increased difficulties and dangers to which .such operations are now subject, are at present rarely to he met with, to make combined exchange operations, which tend to anticipate probable ultimate results. Arc not English manufactures and West India produce eagerly sought after upon the Continent? — Yes, when they get to a place of safety. Would not the exportation of those manufactures and of West India produce to the Continent, in the usual quantities, remedy nearly all the inconveniencies which you have described as operating upon the course of exchange, and raise the ex- change to par? — As the exchange at present rests upon public opinion, and has not got the precious melds for its founda- tion, I conceive a >tate of things possible, so lhat the trade with the Continent may be carried on, the balance beii favour of this Country, whilst the exchange is below par ; the touchstone to regulate it being withdrawn, namely, Bullion. Then do you believe, that if our exports exceeded our im- ports, and the balance of trade were considerably in our favour, that still the exchange would be below par? — I conceive it a possible case. When our exports have exceeded our imports, has that ac- tually been the case at any period since the Bank restriction ? — It has ; but n< v< r lor any length of time, till la ely. When the balance of trade lias been in favour of England, and the exchange has been below par, have there been no ex- traordinary causes to operate upon the exchange, exclusive of (he Bank Restriction Bil] in England} — Yesj such as foreign subsidies, and the Bank of England having raised the price of Cold to SOs. about five years ago; likewise, the great com- mercial distress Which existed in the year 1700, and which had a very great effect upon the exchange. Supposing a paper currency to be established in this or any other country, which is not convertible into Cold or silver coin, or into any definite quantity of Gold or silver, and the quantity of such paper currency to be greatly increased ; do you not conceive that a great Fall in the exchange may take place, and that the subsequent fluctuations in the exchange, which result from the variations in the balance of trade, may (o) (98) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. . become fluctuations merely round a new point, the exchange never again reaching its antecedent par, assuming always the quantity of paper to continue to be enlarged ? — In my opinion, there is no single cause that would tend so materially to have the effect of depreciating the exchange, and keeping it low, as an increased paper currency not convertible into cash. Might not the exchange continue permanently and greatly depressed, in spite of favourable balances of trade, under such circumstances? — As under such circumstances the exchange rests upon a foundation no more solid than the variable opi- nion of persons abroad and at home, I conceive, that the in- terchanges between this and foreign countries might continue to be carried on at an exchange much below par, when, in fact, there is nothing to raise it but a change of opinion ; but which opinion would very soon be altered, when it were once known that coin were again to be put into circulation. Are there not many places on the Continent in which the balance of trade has been occasionally very favourable, and in which nevertheless, during the period of that favourable ba- lance, the exchanges have been unfavourable if computed in a paper not convertible into cash ? — Except with regard to the occasional high rate of exchange between this Country and the Continent, I know of no exchange with any Country where a forced paper circulation existed as the foundation for the exchange, but where it was considerably below its origi- nal par. Has not the depreciation in the value of the paper of those countries been generally produced first by some unfavourable balance of trade, or other extraordinary circumstance, natural- ly affecting the course of exchange ; and has not the circum- stance, of the paper not being exchangeable into cash, then prevented the recovery of the exchange in more than a slight degree after the depreciation had taken place, even though a favourable balance should return ? — I believe that it has gene- rally been the public opinion, as much as any other cause, that has depressed such exchanges, and which must of course have been aggravated by an unfavourable balance of trade. Has a limitation of the quantity of paper been resorted to in places on the Continent as a means of rectifying the exchange under such circumstances ?— rYes, it has very frequently. Mr. .} MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (99) At what prices, and with what effect ? — Always with a par- tially good effect. This reduction of the quantity of paper has been resorted to in Denmark, in Austria, and was even tried in France, during the period of the assignats ; but upon any exigency of the Government, they have again increased the quantity, which then tended again to lower the rate of the exchange with foreign countries. State in what manner the returns and payments are made to this Country from the Continent, for the exports. — Partly in merchandize and partly by bills of exchange. Do merchants on the Continent make advances on property consigned, as heretofore ? — No. From the course of our export trade, is not the Continent largely indebted to this Country ? — Very considerably ; and in a much greater proportion than what they would be if trade had been carried on as heretofore, in as far as such exports have been for English account. For those commodities which we import from the Conti- nent, do we not pay in advance ? — Those coming for English account are generally drawn for upon the goods being shipped. For those which come on foreign account, are not drafts passed in anticipation ? — I have little doubt but that has been the case with regard to a part of such shipments. Is not this the general course of such trade ? — Yes, except when extraordinary dangers or difficulties exist. Do you know whether for such commodities as are import- ed from the Continent of Europe, and re-exported to the States and Settlements of America, this Country always gives credit ? — Yes. What period of time does it lake in that trade to bring the payments round ? — About eighteen months. Has not the import from the Continent, during the last year, of Baltic produce, German linens, and other produce, been unusually great ? — Yes, it has, in consequence of the trade between this Country and the Continent having been almost totally cut off the preceding year; in consequence of which the advance of the British merchant, both on the score of exports as well as imports, must be unusually great. Has not the prime cost of such articles been greatly aug- mented by unusually high freights paid in cash to foreign ships, nr in bills of exchange on the Continent ? — The freights have O 2 (100) MINUTES Of EVIDENCE. [Mr. -. been unusually high, but as far as my experience goes, not been paid for in specie, but either in bills of exchange or in merchandize. Has not the more general practice been to pay such freights in bills of exchange or Bullion ? — I do not know of any freights that have been paid in Bullion, but a great many in bills of exchange. If the amount of merchandize on hand be unusually great, paid for through the means of drafts on Great Britain, would not that produce an effect upon the exchange ? — Certainly. Does not the amount of the expenditure for Government account on the Continent, for the last two years, form a de- bit against us ; and suppose a part of that expenditure to have been paid in specie or Bullion sent from this Country, which was obtained originally in payment of bills drawn from Spain negociated there, would this last circumstance make any diffe- rence in our balance of payments ? — In as far as such operations were carried on through the medium of the exchanges, it would have that effect in reducing the favourable balance of trade equivalent to its amount, and which appears, from the nature of the transaction explained in the question, to have been the case with regard to the Bullion received from South America. Has not the appearance of Government bills on the Conti- nent always produced a greater effect on the exchange, than bills of individuals to an equal amount ? — It has frequently had this effect, but not always. Is it a consideration at Hamburgh, with the purchaser of a bill of exchange on London, in what money it is to be paid ? — Not abstractedly with regard to any single bill : but as a matter of opinion generally, I dare say the suspension of cash payments has had an effect on the public mind there. Is Bank of England paper therefore discredited at Ham- burgh ? — No more there than here, as the relative rate of the exchange, and the advanced price of Bullion here, will shew. According to what you have stated, is it not depreciated when compared with Gold at the Mint price? — Yes, as the rate of exchange will shew. You have stated, that according to your experience, paper is always depreciated when not convertible into cash ; can you then, according to this principle, assign any cause why in Mr. ».] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (]0l) the exchange between Hamburgh and London at the period of the suspension of cash payments of the Bank in 1797, it was at 35, or about three, per cent, above, what is railed par ; that from that date it rose gradually in 1797 :md 1798 to 38/2, and was still at 3(5 in the middle of 1799» when a great commer- cial distress took place, subsidies paid, and large importations of corn ; while the circulation of the Bank of England had been increased from about eleven millions to thirteen and a half in 1800 and 1801, the exchange was depressed down to 29 and lower, the amount of bank notes being then 15 or lG millions ; during 1803 and 1804, and the greatest part of 1805, the exchange gradually rose to 35/6 or about five or six per cent, above par, while the amount of the bank notes increas- ed to 18 millions ? — When I stated it to be my opinion, that paper was always depreciated when not convertible into cash, it was only with regard to such issues upon the Continent. The causes I should assign for the very high rate of exchanges after the suspension took place in this Country was, that during the commencement of the suspension of payments of cash at the Bank, the public opinion here was exalted to that degree, that for a considerable length of time no traffic at home was carried on between Bank paper and Gold at an ad- vanced rate; the situation of trade between this Country and the Continent was particularly favourable, and the balance greatly in its favour, which not only tended to raise the ex- change above par, but made it worth the foreigner's while to liquidate a great proportion of his debt by sending Gold to this Countrv, of which some millions sterling were imported ; when circumstances changed and a temporary balance existed against this Country, and which could only be liquidated bv allowing a re-exportation of Bullion, this was withheld, and which must have tended to increase the effect both in reality and as matter of opinion. In fact, I only know of two means to liquidate an unfavourable balance of trade, it is either by Bullion or bankruptcy. Would not the exportation of any other commodity to an equal extent, produce the same effect upon the balance of trade as would Bullion ? — Yes, in as far as it would tend to change the balance of trade, and thus less Bullion would be required to make up any supposed deficiency. (102) MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. [Mr. . Jovis, 8° die Martii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Mr. ' • , a Continental Merchant, again called in, and Examined. i IN what way do you think the present issue of bank note9 and country bankers paper would operate to reduce the rate of exchange, supposing the balance of trade to be in favour of this Country ? — The greater the issue, the more the exchange would be lowered ; and supposing that a scarcity of the cir- culating medium of this Country existed, the higher the ex- change would be. Independent of this direct effect, a reduc- tion of the circulating medium would also have that of lower- ing the prices of every article, and thus increase the facility and extent of their export. That in consequence of an increase of bank notes in cir- culation, and articles of merchandize being raised in price, that the exports are less than they otherwise would be, and in that way the operation on the exchanges is to our disadvan- tage ? — Yes, in as far as there is any competition rn trade between this and other countries. Admitting that by an increase or decrease of the quantity of paper in circulation' the prices of merchandize are increased and decreased, and the exportation greater or less, and that the exchange is of consequence indirectly affected ; will you explain more particularly the direct operation of an excess of paper currency on the exchange ? — An increase of the circu- lating medium enables persons to make greater advances to foreigners, and more bills are thus brought into the foreign market ; this must have the effect of lowering the exchange. Should, on the contrary, a scarcity of money exist here, it would become desirable to realize and accelerate the payment of debts due to this Country ; advances now readily made to them would from necessity be curtailed, and the foreigner, who required a bill on this country, would be obliged to pay a higher price for that which was scarce than if it were abun- dant. The importations, from the same causes, would ba curtailed ; and the desire to raise money by sending a greater Mr. .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (103) quantity of goods abroad, would be increased. However great the inconvenience to individuals, I conceive that a very ma- terial reduction of the circulating medium in this Country (by which I do not mean to make any distinction between coin and paper) would have the immediate effect of raising the exchange so far above par as to enable foreigners to send Bullion to this Country for the liquidation of their debt, pro- vided this principle were carried to such an extremity. Whether you think the greater advances to foreigners, which, you have stated, are made in consequence of the increase of the circulating medium, do not tend to increase the balance of trade in favour of England, and therefore to counteract the direct causes on the exchange, which you have mentioned ? — As far as relates to the imports into this Country, it must have the contrary effect. Is it not the balance of payments, and not the balance of trade, which affects the exchange? — As a matter of fact, it undoubtedly is ; but in this, as in most other cases, ultimate results are anticipated by the speculations of individuals. Supposing a diminution of the paper of Great Britain to take place, or an expectation of such diminution cenerallv to prevail, would not the following effect follow ; would not those English merchants who now trade on borrowed capital, and order goods from abroad on their own account, with a view to importation hither, or invite consignments from abroad by offering to make large advances on the credit of them, curtail their orders and limit the extent of their advances, in consequence of their anticipating increasing difficulty in pro- viding the means of payment ; would not this conduct on their part lessen the quantity of drafts drawn upon them, and thus affect the balance of payments, and would not this alteration in the balance of payments tend to improve the British exchange ? — I perfectly agree in the effect of the positions placed in the foregoing question, as I tried to explain in my preceding answer. Suppose an increase of paper currency to take place, and that currency not to be convertible into a medium common to any other country, would not the effect throughout such a country be a general rise in the prices ol us produce and com- modities ? — It is my opinion, that an increase ol the currency of any country, whether it be paper not convertible into coin, (104) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. . or such as is coin itself, would invariably have that tendency, with the distinction, that if coin circulated, the real medium of value would be much more readily restored. Suppose in one of two countries, namely England, the price of articles in exchange for its paper circulating medium Should be raised in consequence of an increased quantity of paper; and suppose in another country, namely Holland, the price of articles in exchange for its circulating medium should not be raised, there having been no increase in its quantity or diminution of its value; would not a given quantity of Eng- lish paper necessarily be exchanged for a diminished quantity of Dutch currency ? — -Yes, it would. That is to say, if English goods continued to exchange for the same quantity as before, of Dutch goods, must not the English paper be exchanged for a less quantity of Dutch cur- rency, in such a case ? — Should the advanced price of any article in this country not curtail the quantity to be exported, it certainly would have this effect in the abstract. Supposing the circulating medium to consist almost ex- clusively of paper, as is now the case in England, and sup- pose such paper to be augmented in quantity ; suppose also' the general price of articles in exchange for such paper in England to be raised, as you have admitted ; will not such rise of prices operate as a temptation to foreign countries to enlarge their export of goods into England as long as the ex- change remains the same; inasmuch as the advanced price of goods in England, other things being equal, must give an ad- ditional profit to the foreign exporting merchant ? — Taking it for granted that the exchange were to remain the same, it would have that effect; but it- is the exchange itself which would regulate such operations. In the case supposed, will not the same general advance of prices in England, which you state an augmentation of paper to produce, operate as a discouragement to the exportation of English articles so long as the exchange shall remain the same, which shall be assumed to be at par? — Yes, certainly ; t>ut it is an assumption which, in my opinion, could never take place in fact. Have you not understood that the general balance of trade has been stated to Parliament by official authority /for several years, to be m favour of this Country, and to the amount of' jjf r . .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (105) several millions in each year ? — Yes ; but I believe that such statements did not include the expenditures for the account of Government abroad. Would not such balances due on former years, but accruing for payment only in the last year, have contributed to the ex- tent of that payment so accruing, to satisfy any extraordinary demand for goods imported from the Continent last year ? — Yes, they would. The balance of trade for the last year in favour of this Country, being stated to be much greater than on any former occasion, how soon, supposing the present rate of exchange to arise solely from the present balance of payments being against this Country, may we expect to see a balance of pay- ments, and consequent rate of exchange in favour of this Country, in proportion to the favourable balance of trade? — As I have before tried to explain, that it is not the balance of trade alone that regulates the rate of exchange when Bullion is withdrawn from its operations, as relative to the balances with foreign countries, I continue of opinion, that the balance may be in favour of this Country and the exchange against it, until that is restored, which is the only medium by which to regulate the par of exchange. I would further state as my opinion, that at the present moment, and for a short time past, the balances of payment between this Country and the North of Europe have been in favour of England. Then if the exchange was affected solely by the bnlance, the payments of exchanges with the North of Europe at this moment ought, according to the information on which you have formed your judgement, to have been in favour of Eng- land ? — If that were the only cause that influenced the ex- change, it is my opinion, that the exchange would have been in favour of England for some time past. Would not that be the only cause, in your opinion, if the paper currency of this Country were convertible into coin at the option of the holder? — Yes, with the exception always of the increased difficulty and expense which might occasionally take place to transport the precious metals. if the depression in the exchange of any country arises solely from an unfavourable balance of trade or of payments, would not the natural consequence be a scarcity of currency, 1*0 (106) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [Mr. . and a fall in the price of all commodities ? — Yes, it is what I have invariably observed in several countries. Has the present great depression of the exchange in this Country, as far as your experience goes, created any such scarcity of currency or consequent fall in the price of commo- dities ? — No, it has not ; but the case cannot be assimilated to those countries I alluded to, where a free exportation of their coins has been permitted, and inconsequence of the reduction in their circulating medium ail other articles are fallen in price. Has not such a scarcity of currency, and consequent fall in the price of commodities, a direct tendency to remedy the evil of an unfavourable exchange by which such scarcity was cre- ated ? — Yes, it undoubtedly has. Then, if those effects are not produced by an unfavourable state of exchange, you would ascribe the depression to some other causes, and would infer that some other remedy must be applied ?— A free circulation, and liberty to export the coin of the country, is in my opinion the only effectual remedy ; if that is not deemed practicable, I however conceive that many palliatives may be applied. ■ Do you not conceive that without a free importation of the coin of the country, a diminution in the amount of its cur- rency would produce a fall in the price of all commodities, and a consequent rise of the exchange, in the same proportion as if that diminution of currency had been effected by the ex- port of a part of our coin ? — I should suppose it could only have one-half the effect. In point of fact, has not the exchange of this Country with the North of Europe been in our favour since the restriction of cash payments at the Bank I — Yes, it has, for a considera- ble time, and very materially, and so much so that a great part of the balance due to this Country was liquidated by Bul- lion sent here from the North of Europe. Would it not have continued in that same favourable state if the currency of the country had been kept within the same limits in proportion to the occasions of the public as then ex- isted, the balance of trade being generally in our favour ? — The balance of payments having occasionally been against this Country, and the re-exportation of the precious metal being prevented, has been the cause of the exchange continuing for such a length of time below par; had those circumstances not jVlr. •.] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (107) taken place, and the circulating mediusn not being increased here, and money been the principal circulating medium of ihis Country, then I am of opinion, that with a favourable balance of trade J the exchange would have been almost in- variably in favour of this country. You have stated, that the exchange has been greatly in our favour since the restriction on the Bank, and that the balance of payments then due to England was in consequence liqui- dated by great importations of Bullion into this Country ; you have also stated, that in your opinion, the balance of payments is now in our favour; explain to the Committee to what cause you ascribe the difference in the exchange between those two periods, in each of which you conceive the balance of pay- ments to be in our favour ? — At the period of the suspension, the situation of the trade of this Country was very favourable to it : the stock of goods on hand, and which were required by the Continent, was very great ; public opinion here in fa- vour of the measure empowering the Bank to withhold cash payments was such, that for some time no traffic at home was carried on between this paper and coin : while the balance of trade therefore continued in favour of this country, the foreigner could only liquidate his debt by sending Bullion. Had the re-exportation been allowed, a very small proportion of such exportation would have been sufficient to keep the ex- change at near par; or even the public opinion would have fixed it at that rate, if it were ascertained that such operations could take place when required. This not being the case, and some extraordinary cause? (as explained) having taken place, that depressed ihe exchange, and coin being withheld both from internal circulation and from its operation with foreign countries, I conceive this to be the cause of an un- favourable rate of exchange during a period of a favourable balance of trade. In fact, the foundation by which what is called a par of exchange is fixed, no longer exists as matter of fact. Wlun you state that under the present restriction on the Bank of England, the balance of payments is not the sole re- gulator of exchange, and the public opinion is become a sub- stitute for it, in what sense is the Committee to understand that public opinion operates in this respect ; is it, as is the LP 2) (108) Minutes of evidence. [Mr. . case in several States on the Continent, any want of confi- dence in the resources of this Country, and in the solidity of the credit of the Bank, arising from a state of war or any po- litical circumstances, or is it merely an opinion that so long as the Bank restriction continues, whatever may be the well- founded confidence as to the prosperity of the Bank, the fluc- tuations in the exchange will not be governed by the same circumstances or kept within the same limits as if such re- striction did not exist; and consequently, that neither the ex- tent or duration of any existing depression can be subjected to the same, calculations as in the ordinary state of things ? — No want of confidence either in the resources of this Country or in the solidity of the Bank exists with the mercantile body abroad; but whilst that is withheld from circulation which would prevent the possibility of any depreciation of bank pa- per, its value cannot be said to be regulated by a certain quan- tity of the precious metals. Thus the fluctuations in the ex- change may be greater and more continued, as subject to matter of opinion instead of being reducible to matter of fact, when coin or Bullion at the Mint price is the foundation for the par of exchange. You have been asked, whether the purchaser, at any foreign place of exchange, of a bill upon London, stipulates for any difference of price, in consequence of being liable to be paid in bank paper ; does not the purchaser of such bill know, that he cannot legally enforce payment in any other currency ? — The purchaser of such bill does know that he can enforce no other payment than that in bank paper; and in consequence, it appears by facts that have taken place, that his opinion with regard to the value of a pound sterling has been reduced, and tlmt at a time when the balance of payments has been in favour of this Country. In my opinion, this would net have been the case had the restriction not taken place. But the balance of payments being at ^'present in favour of this Country, how do you account for this diminution in the value of a pound sterling ? — The opinion of the foreigner with regard to the value of a pound sterling being once reduced, it cannot again be raised, unless either he himself changes his opinion, or others choose by speculation to raise the exchange, whilst Bullion at the mint price is withheld. In consequence of this opinion, I conceive it possible that the interchange be- Mr. .] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (109) tween this and foreign countries many continue at the re- duced rate of exchange, whilst what I call its regulator is withheld. If option could be secured to the foreign purchaser, that the payments should be made either in guineas or bank notes, would vou not give more for a bill possessing those advan- tages ; and at the present rate of exchange and price of Gold, how much more ? — With regard to any single operation, I believe little or no difference would be made; but as a general measure, lam confident it would raise the opinions of foreigners with regard to the value of a pound sterling. The exchange between Hamburgh and London during the years 1803, 1804 and 1805, having been in favour of England, can you account for this seeming contradiction of the princi- ple which you have assumed, that the present low rate arises from a paper circulation not being convertible into coin, in- dependent of any supposed excess of such paper currency ? — Had the balance of payments invariably continued in favour of England, the exchange would have done so likewise. I believe that in the course of my evidence, I have assigned a variety of causes for the low rate of exchange, independent of the inconvertibility of paper into cash. Supposing the balance of payments to have continued uni- form in favour of England, would not the doubling the amount of paper currency in England, at the moment even when such balance was most favourable, have very considera- bly depressed the exchange? — h\ my opinion it would. But I must add, that a very favourable balance of trade, for a con- tinuation of a great number of years,, is an impossibility, as it would oblige the foreigner to liquidate his debt by Bullion j which would increase in quantity here to that extent so as to produce the same effect in increasing the circulating medium of this Country as by an excess of a paper issue. Is not the depreciation of paper currency, as to its effect on foreign exchanges, the same as would be a debasement of the coin? — Yes, certainly; with the distinction, that the ex- tent of the one can be exactly ascertained, but not that of the other. If the issue of "paper bv country banks did not take place till some time after the restriction, and then gradually, must not this have affected the depreciation, and consequently the (HO) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. {J.WlutmQTC course of exchange ? — Tending very materially to increase the circulating medium of this Country, it certainly must have had that effect . Would the depreciation of currency in any one country af- fect the intercourse with another, on the supposition of the exports and imports between them being exactly equal, esti- mated in Gold?— I think that this question is best answered by an existing matter of fact, which is, that the difference in this Country between the sterling value of Gold and the de- preciation of foreign exchanges, is nearly equal. May not the depreciation of currency in a country make an apparent balance of trade in its favour, contrary to fact? — Only in as far as the rate bears upon the balance. Veneris, Q° die Mar Hi, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair: John Whitmore, Esq. the Governor of the Rank of England, John Pearse, Esq. Deputy Governor of the Bank of Eng- land, called in together ; and Examined. SUPPOSING the excess of the market price of Gold in bank notes above the mint price to be five per cent., and that in consequence a drain of guineas takes place from the Bank, and the Bank; by diminishing the amount of its outstanding demands, raises the value of its paper five per cent, in the man- ner described in a former answer, would not the result be to bring the market and the mint price of Gold to a par, and con- sequently to put a stop to the demand for guineas ?— -I wish to have further time to consider of this question. On what principle is it now the practice of the Bank to re- gulate the general amount of their loans and discounts, and what is the principle antecedent to the restriction ; namely, do they endeavour principally to lend to such an amount as shall serve to keep the quantity of Bank of England notes nearly at their usual level, or do they enlarge their advances to merchants when the merchants happen to extend their de- mands for discount, although by gratifying such demand the quantity of paper should be in some degree increased; or do and J. Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (Ill) they resulate the amount of their discounts and loans, and thereby also the circulating paper, by a reference to the state of the exchange, and to the difference between the market price and the mint price of Gold ; or upon what other principles do they proceed? — We do not comply with the demands for discounts to the extent demanded of us ; it has always re- ference, not only to the solidity of the paper, hut to the amount of the accommodation the individual applying for it already has. We never discount without those circumstances being considered ; namely, the amount already given to the individual, the solidity of the paper, and the appearance of its being issued for commercial purposes. I am prepared to say, that I do not advert to the circumstance of the exchanges, it appearing upon a reference to the amount of our notes in cir- culation, and the course of exchange, that they frequently have no connexion j there is no accommodation of discount granted without periodically the amount of our discounts and all advances being reported to the Court of Directors. Do you ever limit the extent of your discounts to merchants, by consideration of the amount of your notes out in circula- tion ? — The attention of the court being constantly drawn to the amount of our notes in circulation, certainly does operate upon us, either to the reduction or the increase. Do you advert to the difference between the market and mint price of Gold ? — I wish to have time to consider that question. Supposing the Bank to be now paying in ensh, would it not necessarily experience a great drain of Gold, in conse- quence of the high price of Bullion and the unfavourable state of the exchange? — Most unquestionably it would. Supposing the Bank to be now paying in cash, and to ex- perience such drain, would they not be disponed under such circumstances to reduce in some degree their discounts to merchants and their loans to Government ? — Most unques- tionably they would, if considered only with reference to the Bank ; but that would be attended with great injury to public credit. • By taking public credit into your consideration on such an emergency, do you mean only the accommodation of govern- ment, or do you include besides that, the accommodation of the mercantile world ? —1 would include both considerations. (112) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \J.Whltm0Vt Let me suppose a case in which no demands were made upon the Bank by Government for unusual accommodations, but an unusual demand was made by merchants lor increased facilities of discount; would the Bank in such a case consider itself «s bound, in order to support public credit, to grant that increase of discounts, although there was a run upon it for Gold, occasioned by the high price of Bullion and the unfa- vourable state of the exchange ? — I desire time to consider that question. Supposing the Bank to be now paying in cash, and to ex- perience a drain of Gold, as just mentioned; and supposing them also to afford precisely the same sum in the way of loan as before; would not a diminution of their paper take place, which would be proportionate to that diminution of their stock of guineas which the drain would occasion, inasmuch as every person coming to demand guineas would give in ex- change' for them an equal quantity of bank notes, which would be cancelled ? — I would wish for time to consider that question. Is there not reason to suspect that the present unfavourable state of the exchange may be in part owing to the want of that limitation of paper which used to take place before the suspension of the cash payments of the Bank, on the occasion of the exchanges becoming unfavourable ? — My opinion is, I do not know whether it is that of the Bank, that the amount of our paper circulation has no reference at all to the state of the exchange. Has that question ever been brought to a regular discussion and decision in the Court of Directors? — Tn the opinion of the Bank Directors, it had not sufficient bearing upon our concerns to make it more than a matter of conversation ; it never was singly and separately a subject of discussion, though constantly in view with other circumstances. Mr. Peurse. — The varying prices of the Hamburgh ex- change compared with the varying amount of Bank notes at different periods, seem to prove that the amount of Bank notes in circulation has not had an influence on the exchange. Mr, Wliitmore,—^\ will on a future day produce such, statements as to the Hamburgh exchanges, and the amount of Bank'notes at corresponding times, as will elucidate tins. Has the effect of the quantity of paper upon the state of endJ.Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (113) exchanges and the price of Bullion been more taken into con- sideration by the Court of Directors within the last nine months, than it has usually been at former periods ? — I should say more frequently, but not more formally. Would not a limitation of the discounts by the Bank of England, on a demand upon them for guineas in consequence of an unfavourable state of exchange, render it necessary for the country banks to be more cautious in their advances, and also tend to create an encrcased demand for guineas for such country batiks, and thereby to diminish in both those respects the amount of their circulation ? — I have no knowledge of what conduct the country banks would think necessary to pursue upon such an occasion ; if the country banks were to act in the maimer in which the Bank of England does act, in never forcing notes into circulation, and making advances only upon good security of bills at short dates, I conceive that the amount of the country circulation would be diminished in such a case. From what causes do you apprehend the present low state of the foreign exchanges to proceed ? — I apprehend it arises from more than one cause : the balance of payments is at present very much against this Country; and in the present state of the commerce of the Continent, the traffic in bills of exchange is so much disturbed from its regular course, that the payments which this Country has to make abroad are not facilitated and equalized as in former times. What is the present state of exchange between this Country and Portugal ? — More in favour of this Country than it has hitherto been. Does not that favourable exchange arise from the circum- stance of half being paid in specie and half in paper in Portu- gal, which paper is at a discount of 27 per cent. ? — The pay-. ment in paper at Lisbon has existed for many years, and the discount upon it has varied. You have stated, that the balance of pavmenta is different from the balance of trade; must not those balances be ge- nerally the s?.me under ordinary circumstances of postponed payments of former years compensating for those deferred in the present? — A very considerable market for our manufac- ture* is recently opened in South America. (114) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. Goldsm'ld. Are there any circumstances, tending to disarrange those balances, existing any where but in our trade with South America ? — In Europe at present, owing to the circuitous import with the interior of the Continent. Whether, since the suspension of the payments in cash down to the present time, there has been any material exten-. sion of commercial discounts ? — I wish to have time to con- sider that question. Lunce, 12° die Mar Hi, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Abraham Goldsmid, Esq. called in, and Examined. Mr. Goldsmid. I AM a partner in the house of Goldsmid, Son, and Eliason : we ape merchants, dealing also in exchanges. What is the present rate of exchange on Amsterdam ?— Thirty-one shillings and five grotes Flemish banco for a pound sterling, equal to nine guilders eight and an half stivers banco for a pound sterling. How much per cent, is that below par?— From sixteen to twenty per cent, below par; but the par is not exactly ascer- tained, on account of our par being in Gold and that of Am- sterdam in silver. In stating it to be from sixteen to twenty per cent, below par, have you taken into consideration the relative value of Gold and silver in both places ? — Yes. What is the present rate of exchange on Hamburgh ? — 28.9. and 10 grotes Flemish banco for a pound sterling, or 10 marcs 13s. Hamburgh banco for a pound sterling. How much per cent, is that below par ? — Nearly as much below par as that on Amsterdam ; the depreciation is nearly the same. What is the present rate of exchange on Paris ? — The last exchange was 20 livres for a pound sterling. I have not been doing any business in French exchanges, and therefore cannot tell the exact rate, but it is rather worse than with Amsterdam and Hamburgh. What would be the difference in value between the napoleon A.Goidsmid.] minutes of evidence. (115) and a guinea? — A guinea, if allowed to be exported, would fetch about 25s. at Paris. What is the present rate of exchange on Portugal ? — 65± per mill rec. How much below par? — 1 myself have no transactions in Portugal, and T therefore cannot speak to that at this moment. Are you acquainted with the American exchanges ? — Not at all. What, in the present circumstances, do you reckon the cost and risk of sending Gold from this Country to Amsterdam ? —I should think, under the present circumstances, that it is really impossible to send Gold to Holland. How long have circumstances rendered that impossible ? — About a month or six weeks, since the recent political changes in the state of Holland. What is the expence of sending specie to Hamburgh ? — We have not sent any Gold direct to Hamburgh these five years ; none has gone, except either by Amsterdam or through Heligoland, and some by Gottenburg. Speaking of the last five or six months of the preceding year, what was the expence of sending Gold to Holland ? — It varied exceedingly, according to the insurance. How much did it vary ? — From 4 to 7 per cent, for all charges covering the risk, as well as the cost of transportation. Do you know what was the expence, in the same period, of sending specie to France ? — I do not know that any was sent to France. During the last five or six months of the last year, were the exchanges on Hamburgh and Amsterdam as low as those which you have mentioned ? — Yes, as low, even lower; that on Hamburgh was as low as 23. 2. and on Holland as low as 30. 10. During that same period, has the price of Gold at Hamburgh fluctuated much r — Not much, not more than 3 a' 4 per cent. ; it has not been more than &£ cr | per cent, above par, nor lower than four per cent, above par, the par being 96. Do you know what has been the price of Silver at Hamburgh for the same period ? — The price of bar silver at Hamburgh is always fixed; it remains at 27. 10. which is its par; the bank receives it at that price^ and I believe gives it at 27. 12. (OS) (,11$) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [A. Goldsmtd. Is there any variation at Hamburgh in the price of silver coin ? — Yes, there is. What is that owing to ? — To the different demands there may be from other countries which require it. Still speaking of the same period, what has been the price of Gold at Amsterdam, as compared with the par ? — The price of Gold at Amsterdam has been as high as 17^ per cent, above par, and as low as 12{ above par, which it is now. What is the par of Gold at Amsterdam ? — 355 guilders per marc fine. How long has the price of Gold at Amsterdam been so much above its par? — I cannot answer that question. Do you ever remember its being at par? — About twenty- years ago I remember it being only from 1 to 3 per cent above par. Speaking of the same five or six months as before, what has been the price of silver Bullion at Amsterdam ? — There has been no bar silver exported from this Country to Amster*- dam within that time, and therefore I do not know the price of bar silver 3 dollars have been from 50 to 5l| stivers current for a dollar. How do you sell Gold at Amsterdam, as the Bank does not receive it ? — It is sold to individuals at so much per marc fine, as the price may be ; the transaction is completed in current money, upon which, of course, if bills are bought, the agio must be calculated in the price of Gold at Amsterdam ; the agio must be either added or deducted, as it may exist between bank money and the currency. You have stated that a guinea, or Gold equal to what is contained in a guinea, is worth about 25s. at Paris, that is a difference of £. 8. 18s. upon 44 guineas and a half; so that Gold equal in weight to what is contained in 44 guineas and a half, would sell at Paris for £. 55. 12s. 6d. j do you mean to say that the above quantity of Gold would purchase at Paris a bill on London for £55. 12s. 6d. ?— Nearly so. What woulu a pound of Gold in London cost at what you have stated to be the present market price of Gold in London, namely, £. 4. i2s. per ounce ? — j£\ 55. 4s. Does it not follow from what you have now stated, that the pound of Gold in London and at Paris is at present nearly of A.Guld.sVltd.] MINUTKS OF KVIDKNCE. (11?) the same value, the difference being only 7s. 6d. per pound ?-— ft dues. What bill on England could be purchased at Hamburgh, according to the last accounts of the course of exchange, tor 100 ounces of English standard Gold ? — x\bout £. 460. How much English standard Gold tor exportation could be purchased in London tor j€. 460. ? — 100 ounces. Then the price of Gold at Hamburgh and the price of Gold in London are nearly equal ? — They are. Is not the exchange at par between two countries when a given amount of the currency of the one or the other will purchase an equal amount of Bullion of a given purity in either? — I always understood it so. W 100 ounces of Gold of standard purity at Hamburgh would, at the present course of exchange, purchase a bill upon London of je?. 46*0, anil it ,:£'. 4o'o in London would purchase only [)5 ounces of Gold of the same purity, would not the exchange of Hamburgh upon London be 5 per cent, in favour of London? — If the price at Hamburgh was such that the produce of 100 ounces of Gold sold there would purchase a bill of £. 4(30. upon London, and that bill in London would only purchase 93 ounces of Gold, then the exchange would certainly be 5 per cent, in favour of England. In ordinary times, when our Gold coin is at its standard, can the exchange be depressed lower by the state of balance of payments than what it costs to transport specie or Bullion ? — Sometimes one way and sometimes the other, over and above sach expence. How much over and above such expence do you conceive? — I have known it differ as much as 5 per cent, either way. Can so great a difference as 5 per cent, continue for any con- siderable time? — I have known from 1 to 5 percent, continue for three or four year-. How long did it ever continue so high as 5 per cent. ? — I have known it 5 per cent, but very seldom, andj lot for a long time together. You have stated, that the sum of j£.460. would be pro- duced by a hundred ounces of Gold of standard fineness at Hamburgh, and that the same quantity of Gold would be purchased by the same sum in London at the present price of (1 18) MttfUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. Goldsmid t foreign Gold j then is not the exchange of Hamburgh upon London now at par ? — No ; because you are paying in Lon- don j€. 4. 12. for what is intrinsically worth ^t. 3. 17. 10^-. according to the coinage price. Inasmuch as you have stated, that the same amount of English currency would purchase the same quantity of Gold both here and at Hamburgh, in what does the difference in the exchange at this moment consist? — The difference con- sists in the price of foreign Gold of standard fineness, the price being stated in pounds sterling which is the currency of this country, being so much above the mint price. Although the exchange between London and Hamburgh were apparently so much against Hamburgh as 405. per pound sterling, would you not still deem the exchange to be at par, if, in point of fact, 40/ banco purchased exactly the same quan- tity of Bullion at Hamburgh as one pound sterling purchased in London ? — The difference in the price of Gold will vary in proportion to the depreciation in the price of the paper. And would not your answer be the same if I were to makfc the same supposition, stating the exchange at j£\ 28. 10. ? — It would be vice versa. Is not Gold, in the form of English coin, kept at present within the value that might be procured for it, by enactments of law ? — I think not ; it is beneath its imaginary but not its intrinsic worth. To what causes do you ascribe the present depression of the exchange so much as from 16 to 20 per cent, below par? — I think that foreigners being the carriers of the trade between the Continent and England at present tends in some consider- able degree, and many other things that have not come within my knowledge or taken mv attention. Have you ever had an opportunity of considering, in any other country, the effect of a forced or excessive paper cur- rency upon the foreign exchanges of that country with others ? -— I have read or heard of a forced paper currency having very ruinous effects, as in France. The question goes to the effect of such paper currency upon the foreign exchanges of the country ? — The exchanges will always bear a proportion to the discount of the currency, as in all forced paper currency they have invariably done. J. Goldsmid.'] ijInutes of evidence. (119) Is it not one effect of such a forced paper currency, to raise in the country itself the nominal prices of all commodities ? — I beg to be excused from answering that question j I am not a competent judge ; it is a political question. Suppose the currency of any country consisted entirely of precious metals, and that it were possible entirely to prevent the exportation of anv excess of that currency to other coun- tries, would not an excess of such metallic currency raise the prices of commodities ? — That is the same sort of question as the last, which I do not think myself competent to answer. Do you not conceive that if the Bank of England had, during the last vear, been liable to pay its notes in Gold, and that Gold coin had been abundant in this Country, the expor- tation of that Gold, though carried on contrary to law, would have had the effect of preventing the exchanges from falling quite so low as they have done ? — I do not think that the ex- port of Gold contrary to law could be carried on to that extent, to prevent the exchanges from falling but in a small degree. Whether the exportation of Gold would produce any other effect upon the exchange than would the exportation of an equal amount of any other commodity ? — No, it is exactly the same. You have stated that Gold at Amsterdam has been as high as 1 74- per cent, above their par, can you assign any reason for that ? — I cannot. When Gold is above par, would you not say, when com- pared with guilders, the currency of Holland, that guilders are depreciated in value ? — No, I should not. According to this principle, does it follow that bank notes must be depreciated when compared with Gold, he Mint price of guineas being /, '. 3. 17. lO-J-. and the market price jof Gold £.4. 12. ? — I never considered bank notes as depre- ciated. Do vou consider Gold and silver as the only regulators of the exchange ? — No, I go not ; I consider the imports and ex- ports of the Country as the regulators of the exchange. Have you ever heard that it is any pari of the consideration of Ahe taker of a bill at Hamburgh Upon London, that the me-- dium of the payment of that bill is confined to bank notes ? — The man who takes a bill at Hamburgh on London purchases (120) MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. [A. Goldsmld. it for purposes of his own, either to purchase a commodity or to pay a debt ; therefore, if he pays his debt by a bill upon London, the Englishman is satisfied with the currency in ex- change, which he passes again. Were the present difficulties of exporting commodities from this Country to the Continent removed, is it your opinion that the price of Bullion would continue at its present high rate ? — I should think it would in a great measure tend to de- crease the price of foreign Bullion. Then you attribute, in a material degree, the present high price of Bullion to that interruption ? — I do, in some measure, certainly. From your experience, is there at present, either in Ham- burgh or London, as much capital or as many individuals concerned in exchange operations, as heretofore ? — Exchange operations are far more limited, and much fewer persons en- gaged in them than there were at former periods. Does not the regulation of the exchange therefore fall at present much within the control of individuals ? — It always did fall within the control of individuals ; it is exactly in that respect as heretofore, only they are not the same persons now as they were formerly, nor are they so numerous. Is it not the practice for individuals to purchase foreign Bul- lion to send to the Continent, for the purpose to draw or be remitted against? — I have very often done that, when it could be done to advantage. Does not the proportion of that advantage depend upon the low rate of exchange ? — As much as it does upon the price of Bullion on the other side. Does not the present low rate of exchange create the demand and the high price of Bullion ? — The present high price of Bullion is on account of the low rate v>f exchange. Whether the price of Gold here does not rise in proportion to the price of exchange, and fall in the same degree? — In ge- neral it does, unless there is an export or import from some ' other part of the Continent of Europe or America. If you could procure 100 guineas in England for £ '. 105. in bank notes, and the law would admit of your sending such guineas to Hamburgh, should you not be enabled to remit from Hamburgh to the amount of at least ^. 122. and to re- J.IVhitmore,&c.'] tyiNUTES o* evidence. (121) peat this operation indefinitely so long as you could procure 100 guineas in England and transmit them to Hamburgh, the exchange remaining the same? — Certainly. Is it your opinion that the circulating medium, as entirely confined to paper in this country, produces any effect upon foreign exchanges ? — I do not profess myself competent to give my opinion upon that. Whether to your knowledge the exportation of Gold during the last year, to the Continent, was considerable, compared with former years? — It may have exceeded the year before /double. Mar lis, 18° die Marlii, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. John IV hit more, Esq. the Governor, and John Pearse, Esq. the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, called in to- gether; and Examined. In reference to the last examination, Mr. Whit more de- livered in a paper, intituled " The amount of Bank Notes in circulation on Saturday night in each week of the year 1797, and the Course of Exchange on Hamburgh on the following Tuesday." (Ace. No. 47.) Mr* Pearse, in reference to his evidence the last time he was before the Committee, delivered in a paper, inti- tuled es A Comparison of the amount of Bank Notes, and rates of the Hamburgh Exchange at various periods. (Ace. No. ly) CAN you give the Committee any more particular infor- mation than when you were last here, as to the state of ex- change between this Country and Portugal ? Mr. IVhitmore. The compulsory receipt of the govern- ment paper in Portugal is not confined to Lisbon, but extends generally all over the kingdom, and affects the exchange at Oporto as well as at Lisbon ; bui whether the discount is the same in both places I cannot state, I rather believe it varies; the present exchange from London on Lisbon is 65!; it has been as high as 6o, and I think 70, within these two years. (*) (122) mix\utes of evidence. [J. IVhitmore Was it any time above par in the course of the last year ?— I do not bear that circumstance in mind. What was the lowest point to which it was depressed in the course of the last year? — I believe it will be found, by a reference to the tables, that it was at 64 the beginning of last year. Do you know what the price of Gold Bullion has been at Lisbon in the course of the last year, or its price at present ? — There is no publicfsale of Gold at Lisbon; I have known a premium given for heavy coin. Do you mean that there is no market price of Gold at Lis- bon, either as Bullion or in the shape of foreign coin? — Fo- reign coin I cannot speak to, but as Bullion I believe not. Ts there any market price of silver Bullion, or silver foreign coin, at Lisbon or Oporto ? — I believe there is of foreign silver coin. Do you know what the price of foreign silver coin is by the last accounts at Lisbon, or what it has been recently ? — I havq had no advices from thence on that subject. In the course of the last year do you know whether there has been any rise or fall in that price ? — I cannot say, for want of advices. If the dealers in Gold were to create a great demand for Bank of England notes, that would create an alarm among the holders of notes, who would hoard them in the same man- ner as they have done guineas upon other occasions of alarm ; would not the holding of such notes raise the value of those that remained in circulation ? — My answer to that question has been given with a reference to the Bank being restricted from any fresh issue, and that there would be no other circu- lating medium than what might remain of their Bank notes in circulation. Do you mean restricted by their own discretion ? — Yes, either by their own discretion or by any positive law. Mr. Pearse. — This conduct would arise out of necessity for the mere preservation of the Bank, though it would not tend to alter the state of the exchanges or the demand for Gold to be exported, and although it would, as in the experience pre- vious to the year 1797, produce great public distress. In what manner do you conceive a reduction of discounts. and J. Pearse.] minutes of evidence-. (103) in the case of a drain for guineas, would tend to diminish that drain ? — Allow me to put an extreme case: Suppose we were to discontinue discounting altogether, and to refrain from purchasing any more Government securities, every Bank note would hy such proceedings return into the possession of the Bank, whereby the public would not call for our guineas, as they would have no Bank notes to exchange for them. Do you not mean in that extreme case, that every Bank note would ultimately be brought into the Bank, that is to say, that as long as any portion of your paper circulation was out, that would afford the dialers in Gold the power of con- tinuing to draw out your Gold, who for that purpose would bring those notes to the Bank ? — In asking this question, the Committee do not seem to be aware that to the extent of dis- counting bills, which forms a very important part of the oc- casion of the issues of bank notes, care is taken in the first instance that they shall be bills of real value, representing real transactions, and that they are all due within the period of two months ; that parts of them are become due every day ; so that unless renewed discounts take place, the payments of those bills as they become due would of itself take out of circulation such quantities of Bank notes as would deprive persons of the means to such extent of taking Gold out of the Bank. Mr. IV hit more. — In the case you have supposed of the value of Bank notes by hoarding of them, would it be raised in exchange for Bullion ? —Provided the difference between such raised value of a Bank note and the price of Bullion would make it a profitable trade. By what criterion in such a case would you judge that the value of the Bank note was raised? — In the answer I before gave to that question, T had gone upon a supposition that the value of Bullion abroad still afforded a profit upon the expor- tation of it ; and until the price of Bullion here exceeds the price abroad, there will not be wherewithal to exchange for Bank notes. In order to simplify the case which you have yourself sup- posed, let it be assumed that in foreign Countries matters re- main unchanged, that the only change which has taken place is that the value of the Bank notes has been raised, as you suppose here, by the hoarding of them ; in that case would (R2) (124) minutes of evidence. [J.IFhilmore then the value be raised here in exchange for Bullion? — If the Bullion cannot be brought into this Country by any mode of payment to the foreign country, it certainly can have no effect. In the case, supposed, which is all along your own suppo- sition^ of the value of notes being raised by the hoarding, would the prices of any commodities in the home market be lowered? — The Committee will please to observe, that when I gave the answer to the question, it was, upon my understanding of it, an extreme case and not a probable one, and I am not prepared with an opinion as to what effect it might have upon the price of any articles here. Does not a rise in the value of any species of money or currency mean a fall in the prices of commodities ? — I did not mean to state that, nor do I mean to state to the Committee any matter of opinion; I would rather wish to leave that to the judgment of the Committee, and I am ready ro answer any points of fact. Supposing the currency of any country to consist altogether of specie, would that specie be affected in its value by its abun- dance or by its diminution, the same as copper, brass, cloth, or any other article of merchandize ? — I have already said that I decline answering questions as to opinion ; I am very ready to answer any questions as to matters of fact ; I have not opi- nions formed upon the points stated in this and the preceding question sufficiently matured to offer them to the Committee. Has the Report of the Committee, together with the Evi- dence of the Committee appointed by the House of Commons in the year 1S04, to inquire into the state of Ireland as to its circulating paper, its specie and current coin, and the ex- change between that part of the United Kingdom and Great Britain, ever come under the consideration of the Court of -Directors of the Bank of England ? — It certainly has not re- cently been under the consideration of the Bank Directors. Has it ever been under their consideration since June 1 804 ? — It certainly has not recently been under the consideration of the Court of Directors collectively. Mr. Pearse. — It never has been under their consideration formally, though, no doubt, it came under their consideration individually at that period. Are either of you aware, that the principal cause of th* an d J. Pearse.] minutes of evident ::. (125) unfavourable course of exchange which then existed between Dublin and London, was stated by that Committee, in their opinion, to arise from an excess of paper circulation, and the consequent depreciation of its value; and that this excess arose principally from the great increase of the notes of the Bank of Ireland ? — It is not now in my recollection what was stated by the Committee at that period in their Report; and I cannot apply the same effects to the notes of the Bank of England. I wish very much to state the same which has been represented by the Governor, that I have not recently read over the evidence and information which induced that Com- mittee to entertain such opinions, and particularly as I do not recollect also whether the paper of the Irish Rank was issued in the same manner as that of the Bank of England, and with the same caution. We wish to repeat to you some of the questions which vou formerly answered. You stated in a former examination, " Supposing the excess of the market price of Gold in Bank notes above the mint price to be 5 per cent, and that in con- sequence a drain of guineas takes place from the Bank, and the Bank, by diminishing the amount of its outstanding de- mands, raises the value of its paper 5 per cent.," in the man- ner described in a former answer of yours, would not the result be to bring the market and the mint price of Gold to a par, and consequently to put a stop to the demand for guineas? Mr. IVh'itmore. — I believe my former answer did not go to the Bank raising the price of their notes, for in fact, if the Bank was to raise the value of them, and give them for dis- counts, estimating them at such increased value, it would incur the penalty of usury. I therefore conceive this state- ment to suppose a case that cannot occur. In taking into consideration the amount of your notes out in circulation, and in limiting the extent of your discounts to merchants, do you advert to the difference, when such exists, between the market and the mint price of Gold ? — Vv'c do advert to that, inasmuch as we do not discount, at anv time, for those persons who we know or have good reason to sup- pose export the Gold. Do you not advert to it any farther than by refusing dis- (I 26) MTNUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. Wllitmor6 counts to such persons? — We do advert to it, inasmuch as whenever any Director thinks it bears upon the question of our discounts, he presses it forward for discussion. The market price of Gold having in the course of the last year risen as high as £.4'. 10. or £.4. 12. has that circum- stance been taken into consideration by you, so as to have had any effect in diminishing or enlarging the amount of the out- standing demands? — It has not been taken into consideration by me in that view. Mr. Pearse. — ln considering this subject with reference to the manner in which Bank notes are issued, resulting from the applications made for discounts to supply the necessary want of Bank notes, by which their issue in amount is so controlled that it can never amount to an excess, I cannot see how the amount of Bank notes issued can op?rate upon the price of Bullion, or the state of the exchanges, and therefore I am individually of opinion that the price of Bullion, or the state of the exchanges, can never be a reason for lessening the amount of Bank notes to be issued, always understanding the control which I have already described. Is the Governor of the Bank of the same opinion, which has now been expressed by the Deputy Governor ? Mr. IVhitmore. — I am so much of the same opinion, that 1 never think it necessary to advert to the price of Gold or the state of the exchange, on the days on which we make our advances. Do you advert to these two circumstances with a view to regulate the general amount of your advances ? — I do not ad- vert to it with a view to our general advances, conceiving it not to bear upon- the question. Mr. Pearse. — In confirmation of this opinion, I wish to draw your attention to what I have before expressed, as will be shewn in fact by the statement delivered in just now, in answer to a former question, being a Comparison of the Amount of the total of Bank Notes at various periods, with the State of the Hamburgh Exchanges at corresponding periods. Has not the amount of your outstanding demands increased in the course of the last year ? Mr. IVhitmore. — The Return that we have made to tht and J. Pearsc.'] minutes of evidence. (127) House, of the amount of our Bank notes in circulation, takes in the whole of our discounts and of our advances on Exche- quer bills, and if the one has increased, the other I consider to have been diminished, as the amount now and at a former period verv nearly correspond, with the exception only of our notes of one and two pounds ; as it appears, I believe, by a Return to the House of Commons, that in the beginning of the vear 1795, in February and March, the amount of our Bank notes in circulation was fourteen millions, and by ihe last Return on the 12th of January last, it was £.14,66*8,640., and on the 6th of this month it was £. 13,894,000. exclusive of Bank post bills and notes under five pounds. Were the Bank post bills excluded in the Return that you speak of, to the House of Commons, of your circulation in 1795 ? — To the best of my recollection they were excluded. State to the Committee what is the criterion which enables the Bank at all times to ascertain that the issue of Bank notes is kept precisely within the limits which the occasion of the public requires, and thereby to guard the circulation of this Country against the possibility of any excess ; and in what manner the control necessary for maintaining uniformly an exact proportion between the occasions of the public and the issues of the Bank, is exercised and applied bv the Court of Directors. — I have already stated that we never forced a Bank note into circulation, and the criterion by which I jud Yes, or in paper that was not at a discount. Supposing a country which used cochineal as an article of manufacture, exported large quantities of that commodity to balance its account with foreign nations, would not such ex- portation raise the value of cochineal in the country exporting it ? — The scarcity of any article naturally enhances its price. Might not this enhancement of the price of cochineal pro- ceed so far as to make ineligible the exportation of any more ? — If the price here of the article to be exported rose above that of the foreign market for which it was intended, it would na* turally cease to be exported, Are not the same consequences likely to follow from the exportation of Bullion in liquidation of foreign debts ? — I can- not consider Bullion, as an article of merchandize, to be af- fected otherwise than any other article of merchandize. Have you ever had opportunities or occasions to consider the effect of an excessive or forced paper currency in any country upon its foreign exchanges with other countries? — la a small degree I have. What do you conceive the effect of such excess to be upon the foreign exchanges ? — I apprehend the effect on the ex- change would follow the depreciation of a forced currency. What do you say as to an excessive currency, though not forced? — I do not conceive the thing possible. What do you mean by a forced paper currency ? — A paper IF. C. Chambers.] minutes of EVIDENCE. (137) which T am obliged to take against my will for more than its value; it is not forced so long as people take it willingly, which they will naturally do whilst undepreciated. May not the quantity of metallic currency be increased in proportion to payments which it has to effect, by an increased Fssue from the mines; and will not that have the effect of raising the money prices of all commodities ?— I conceive an increase or abundance of silver or Gold would have the same effect upon those precious metals as a glut of any other com- modity upon the market. And in the same manner, may not that paper currency which continues to preserve its credit unimpeached, and which commercial people are perfectly willing to receive, be so aug- mented in quantity as to raise the local prices of commodities? — I do not conceive that that piece of paper, for which I am obliged to give a valuable article of merchandize, can be in- creased beyond the want for it; nobody will give a valuable article for a piece of paper that docs not want it. Have you ever happened to pay any attention to the history of the paper currency of Scotland between thirty and forty years ago, or to that of Ireland about the year 1604 ? — Some years ago I remember reading something about them ; but the recollection is rather faint upon my mind. Do you call that paper, in your sense of the word forced, a forced paper currencv, which either by law as it stands, or by force of public opinion, is not convertible into specie at the option of the holder? — If it be convertible into other objects of my gratification without depreciation, I do not consider it forced. At the Mint price of standard Gold in tins Countrv, how much Gold does a Bank of England note for one pound repre- sent ? — 5 dwts. 3 grs. At the present market price of standard Gold of £.4. 12. per ounce, how much Gold do you get for a Bank note of one pound ? — 4 dwts. 8 grs. Do you consider that a Bank of England note for one pound, under these present circumstances, as exchangeable in Gold lor what it represents of that metal ? — I do not conceive Gold to be a fairer standard for Bank of England notes than indigo c; broad-cloth. (T) (138) minutes OF EVIDENCE. \W. C. Chambers. [Question repeated.] If it represents twenty shillings of that metal at the coinage price, it is nor. Jf I go to a silversmith's shop, and see a' Gold cup, which he tells me is in weight exactly a hundred guineas, and that he must have ten pounds more for the workmanship, will he give me that cup for jf. 115. in Bank notes, Gold Bullion selling at ,j£\4. 12. per ounce ? — Me will sell his Gold cup as. he would any other Bullion, at the Bullion price I suppose. Am I to understand by that, that he would sell his cup for i£\l20. or thereabouts, being the value of the Gold, besides the £. 10. for the workmanship ? — Yes. Will you state to the Committee, in your opinion, to what causes is referable the present unfavourable state of exchange between England and the Continent ? — lo the balance of pay- ments being against this Country. Can you give cases to illustrate the fact that you have as- signed of the balance of payments being against this Country? — Large British Armies oh the Continent ; slow returns for exports ; quick payments for imports, and very large stocks of imported goods now on hand in this country. Is there any other cause to which you attribute the present state of exchange? — I know of none other that can affect it, excepting that of a forced depreciated currency. Is it your opinion that the currency of England is depre- ciated ? — Certainly not. Is it the course of trade between Great Britain and the Con- tinent of Europe to pay by anticipation sometimes, or by ready money, for our imports ? — Almost without exception, as far as comes within my knowledge. State the course of payments which the Continent makes to England for its exports. — The English merchant exporting on his own account, is generally obliged to wait the sale of the goods exported before he gets his payment, and often gives long credit to foreigners for whose account he exports. From this course of trade does it not follow that the Con- tinent, at the present time, must be indebted to England ? — I conceive it to be so generally, and know it to be so as respects myself individually. You have stated, that there is at this present time a large J. IF. Morrison.'] minutes op evidence. (139) quantity of merchandize on hand in England ; is that quan- tity larger than in former years it has been ? — In some articles I conceive it to be so, to many of which I have especially ad- verted before, namely, Baltic produce and foreign wool. Do you include in foreign wool, cotton wool ? — I do not know that the quantity of cotton wool is larger than it has often been at former periods. For such articles as we import from the Continent for the purpose of exportation to the Colonies, such as wines, linens from Germany and Russia, iron from Sweden, for which we have paid, do we not give credit for twe'veor eighteen months when so exported? — I consider those happy *vho get paid so soon. Joins, \y die Mar Hi, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. James William Morrison, Esq. Deputy Master of His Ma- jesty's Mint, called in, and Examined. CAN you state to the Committee whether any examination has been recently made at the Mint with respect to the decree in which the present Gold coins of the realm are worn and diminished in weight? — The last examination was made in April 1807- What was the result of that examination? — I have brought a copy of a paper stating the result of experiments made by the officers of the Mint, by order of the Lords of the Com- mittee for Coin, the ISth of April 1807, to ascertain the de- ficiency in weight of the Gold coin of the average quantity then in circulation. Have no experiments been made since? — None. [The paper delivered in.] Has any examination been lately made at the Mint to ascer- tain the quantities of precious metal contained in the coins of foreign European states? — No examination of that sort has been made since Sir Isaac Newton was master of the Mint. Are vou possessed of any information, whether, since the assay or ihe foreign coins by Sir Isaac Newton, any changes (T 2) (140) minutes of evidence. [S. Williams. have taken place in the coins of those foreign countries i — I should apprehend some changes may have been made, though no official assay has been made; I think it very likely that the Assay-master of the Mint might furnish the Committee with such information. Then of course you have no information concerning the relative value of Gold and silver in the foreign coins ?— I have not; I understand there is a recent French publication, which' contains important information of this sort. From whom do you receive at the Mint the ingots of Gold which have been produced from guineas ? — From the Bank of England; they have been the sofe importers of Bullion into the Mint for half a century, with the exception of an instance which I remember of Gold being brought by the Bank of Ireland to be coined. Samuel Williams, Esq. a Merchant trading to the United States of America, called in, and Examined. HAVE you any information with respect to the present state of the currencies of the United States ? — Yes. What does it consist of ? —Silver and gold; eagles is the Gold coin, and dollars the silver. The accounts are kept in dollars and cents ; an eagle is ten dollars, and a cent is an hundredth part of a dollar ; the cent is a copper coin. Is there any paper currency in the United States ? — Bank notes, from a dollar upwards. Are those Bank notes issued by private Banks only, or is there a Government Bank ? — They are all private Banks, but incorporated ; one is called the Bank of the United States, incorporated like the restj which has seven branches in the different States. Is the paper of any of those Banks a legal tender in pay- ment, or are they all convertible into specie, at the option of the holder ? — In the Bank of the United States and all its branches, and in all the Banks in the principal sea-ports, the notes are payable in Gold or silver on demand. I believe there are some country Banks, particularly in the State of Massachusets, which have lately paid only by drafts on the capital of the State at 30 days sight ; they will soon, however, S, IVilliams.'] minutes of evidence. (141) be compelled to pay in specie, or the charter will be taken from them. Are the notes of those Banks in Massachusets payable in specie on demand ? — Yes. Then you do not understand that payment by drafts on Bos- ton to be a legal discharge ?— No, not at all. Ha* this suspension of payment on the part of these Banks gone to any extent in amount, and from w hat circumstances has it arisen ? — Four or five out of twenty- five of those Banks perhaps have paid by drafts instead of paying on demand ; it has principally arisen from the state of things produced by the embargo. Are the dollars and eagles you have mentioned, coins of the United States? — Yes. Do you know the standard of those coins, and the quantity of each metal contained in them respectively ? — The eagle weighs 1 1 pennyweights 6 grains; the dollar weighs 1? penny- weights 7 grains, and it passes in China and in the East Indies at the same value as Spanish dollars. Is that their standard weight or their current weight? — The standard weight. Do you know the average weight of dollars in circulation ? —Seventeen pennyweights 6 grains. Do you know the current weight of the eagle? — It may be a grain less. But, as the best mode of furnishing the infor- mation which I possess upon this subject, I beg leave to offer to the Committee a book which I have brought with me, in- tituled " The Massachusets' Register, and United States' Ca- lendar, for the year 1808;" {Ace. N 03 . 62,63,6-1.) which contains Tables for receiving and paying the Gold coins of Great Britain, Portugal, France, and the dominions of Spain, according to acts of Congress ; and a Table of the weight and value of the American coins ; also, a Table of the value and weight of Coins as they pass in the respective States of the Union, with their sterling and federal value, together with rules for reducing currencies. This book also contains a state- ment with respect to the United States Bank, and the Banks in. Massachusets. Are you able to state whether there is much of this Gold coin in circulation in the United States? — I believe that Gold (142) minutes op evidence. [S. William 3, composes the greater part of the specie that is in circuUtion in the United States, because dollars generally bear a premium. Are they both legal tenders for any sums ? — Yes. Is there any limitation upon the offer of silver in payment of debts to any amount ? — No, only of copper, which is only a tender fur small payments, as in this Country. Then we understand you to state, that Gold is more seen in circulation than dollars ? — Yes, I think it is. Is there much paper in circulation in proportion to the specie? — Yes, a very great proportion ; I should suppose nine- tenths ; I mean bank notes payable to bearer on demand. Is the proportion of bank notes to specie in circulation in the United States, more or less than what you think it was in this Country before 1797 ? — About the same, I should sup- pose. Less therefore than it is in this Country at present ? — Yes. What, according to your best information, is understood to be the amount of the quantity of paper in circulation throughout the United States? — The capital of all the Banks is about 40 millions of dollars, perhaps three-fourths of that may be in circulation in Bank notes. Are any of those. Banks limited by law, or by the terms of their charters, as to the amount they may issue ? — I believe not, they are so numerous that they are a check upon each other. Is the circulation of each of those Banks generally confined within a certain district, or do the notes of any one of them circulate throughout the States ? — They are by practice confined more or less to their own local district ; the bank notes of the United States Bank circulate freely throughout the States. In what proportion would you say, that in any one of the States the bank notes of the Bank of the United States bear to the local paper of such States ? — The best information I can give, is to refer to the book I have delivered in, which contains a statement of the capital of the Boston Banks, and that branch of the United States Bank which is at Boston ; I be- lieve the capital of the country Banks in Massachusets may be about two millions of dollars. Do you conceive that the circulation of any of those Banks S. IFilliams.') minutes of evidence. (143) bears a fixed or necessary proportion to the amount of their capital ? — The notes of the Boston Bank, may amount to two- thirds or three-fourths of their capita). Do you know that fact ? — Yes, I do. Is it an inference you derived from your knowledge of that fact, when you calculate the amount of the circulation of the other Banks? — I conceive the country Banks issue in a larger proportion to their capital. Is it necessary to have a charter in order to carry on the business of banking in any part of the United States, or is that branch of trade free to all the world ? — It is free to all the world ; but unless they were chartered, people would not have confidence in them. What privileges docs that charter give ? — They are autho- rized to issue notes for a certain time. Are the proprietors responsible beyond their shares of the capital subscribed? — No. Then that is the nature of the privilege which they derive from their charter, and the privilege of suing, and being sued? —Yes. Do those country Banks, and does the Bank of the United States, receive deposits, or do they issue their notes upon the credit of commercial hills, or upon what other securities ? — On commercial bills chiefly. What date do those bills bear, and at what rate of interest are they discounted ? — Sixty days date, and at 6 per cent. Is there any general law in the United States limiting the rate of interest? — In Massachusets the rate of interest is li- mited by law at 6 per cent. ; I believe in New York at 7; all the Banks throughout the United States discount at 6 percent. Do those Banks receive deposits ? — Yes. Do they give interest on such deposits? — No. Is any thing paid to the Bank for safe custody ? — No. What is the current market rate of interest in the Countrv? Six per cent. Is it reckoned a favour to lend at 6 per cent, on the Conti- nent ? — Yes. Has there been any alteration lately in the current or heal rate of interest ? — No. (144) minutes op evidence. [5. William i. What is the interest which Government securities bear in the States?— For the securities of the individual Slates, the interest is 6 per cent. Has the National Bank any privileges above the other J^nks } — No other than that of receiving the public monies lor duties, &c. The National Bank then is of course exclusively employed to pay the dividends on the public debt? — Certainly. Does that Bank make those payments gratuitously? — Yes. What is the difference which you alluded to between the value of Gold and silver, and the cause of that difference? — The difference is generally 1 to 2 per cent, and the cause is, a greater demand for the exportation of dollars to the East Indies and China. When a demand to any considerable amount is made upon any of the Banks for a payment in specie, do they make that in eagles, the coin of the United States, or in foreign coin ? — - In both indiscriminately, because all foreign coins are received at the Banks at the relative values established by Act of Con- gress. Are those foreign coins in common circulation ? — They are. In mentioning the large proportion of Gold to silver coin in circulation, do you mean to inplude this foreign Gold coin as well as the eagles? — Yes. What proportion does the foreign Gold coin bear to the eagles in circulation ? — As o to 1. What sort of fjreign Gold coin -is it? — When T was in the country ten or twelve years ago, it was chiefly Portuguese and Spanish Gold ; there were also English guinea's and French Gold, but not much. Are the foreign Gold coins in circulation uniformly received without any fluctuation at the relative value fixed by law ? — They pass by weight. Does the federal law of the United States, or does the law of any of the states, permit the exportation of their own coin, Gold or silver ?-r-The exportation is free. Is there a seigniorage paid at the American Mint ? — I be- lieve not. Does the Spanish dollar pass by weight, or in the same, way S. Williams.'] minutes of evidence. (145) as the dollars of the States? — Tt circulates equally; I believe they are of the same fineness and weight. Is there a general Mint for the federal union, or are there more Mints ? — There is only one Mint, a federal Mint. What is the relative value of Gold and silver?— I believe 13 for I. Is it supposed that any large fund of Gold or silver is depo- sited in the coffers of the Banks you have described, and in what manner do they supply themselves with such as they have occasion for? — I suppose that large sums are deposited in the coffers of the Banks, consisting chiefly of Gold coin. Are the Banks iri the United States exposed to sudden drains upon them for their Gold or other specie, cither in con- sequence of an alarm or a demand within the territory of the States, or in consequence of demands from abroad? — They are sometimes subject to sudden and great drains, when large sums are wanted for exportation to the East Indies and China. That is a drain for silver ? — Yes. How high have you ever known the agio of dollars above Gold ? — Five per cent., the general average is from one to two. Have you ever known a drain upon the Banks for Gold, from any cause? — So, never but upon the establishment of a new Bank, and the consequent demand for Gold to form its Jcposit. Have you ever known instances of failures of any of those Banks ? — Onlv one in the state of Rhode Island, which was a Bank that issued notes without having any capital or funds to support it. In what manner do those Banks guard themselves against an inconvenient demand upon them for silver, when the pre- mium is as high as five per cent. ? — They pay in Gold. Supposing there were a demand upon them for Gold, in what manner would those Banks endeavour to protect them- selves from having their deposit drained oft* by their notes being brought in ? — They are careful not to issue too many notes. Do they lessen their paper when there is danger of drains upon them for Gold ? — Always; they often lessen their dis- counts very rapidly. Under what circumstances is it that guch a drain is felt or (») (146) m/nutes of evidence* [S. JVilliam?* apprehended by the Banks; is it when the exchange is pecu- liarly unfavourable? — It is not much affected by any exchange, but from iheir having issued too much paper. When the drain is made upon them, to what purpose is the Gold applied that is so taken out ? — There may be a drain up- on one Bank out of four, to relieve the other three. Do they ever experience a general drain upon all the Banks ? — No. '/< Do you remember any conjunction of circumstances affect- ing the country generally, which have made the Banks take more than ordinary precautions in lessening the amount of their circulation? — I do not recollect any. Is it the custom of the several Banks to possess themselves of each others paper, and then to exchange that paper for Gold when they experience a drain ? — It is mutually the case. Is there no one Bank that has any exclusive circulation in any one part of America, and to whose funds the other Banks more particularly resort for a supply of Gold ? — No. Do you remember at any time the exchange on England be- ing so unfavourable to America, that there was a profit bv ex- porting specie from America ?— Yes. Was it Gold or silver ? — Silver, generally ; and it was when the price of silver was high in this Country. From what causes did that state of exchange unfavourable to America arise ? — From the large importations from this Coun- try chiefly, and the reduced exportation from America. Did that cause any drain of Gold ? — No, only of silver. Do you remember any period since the independence of America, when the paper circulation of that Country was re- garded as excessive? — Not since the independence. Has there been any forced Government paper in America since the independence ? — No. Is there in any of the principal towns of the United States, a market price for Gold or silver Bullion or coin, as there is in the principal capitals of Europe? — N6, there is not. Is not the currency different in the different States ? — All the national accounts, and all the accounts of merchants and bankers, are kept in dollars and cents. Then what is the use of those rules which are given in the book you have delivered in, for reducing the currencies of the S. Williams."] minutes of evidence. (1*7) different States ? — Sonic few old people may still reckon by the old currency of pounds shillings and pence. How does it happen, that a different rule should be necessary as between different States? — Before the independence, there were excessive paper currencies in all the States, which were liquidated at different rates, the degree of excess in the separate States being different, in the same manner as has been done in the different West India Islands; and the persons who still continue to compute according to the old fashion, compare the new currency and accounts of dollars and cents with their former currency as so liquidated. In those times preceding the independence, had the different States a local copper coinage ?— No, the copper coinage was all British. Is there a course of exchange between America and any other country ? — Yes. With what countries ? — England principally ; also with France and Holland. Is the course of exchange the same between England and all the States, or is there a different exchange? — Nearly the same ; there is a difference of one per cent, only.' What is the par of exchange between the United States and France ? — I never saw the exchange with France quoted in any price current; it has been quoted with Holland, Hamburgh, and England. What is the par of exchange between the United States and Hamburgh ? — I cannot answer that question, nor that with Holland ; all the transactions between Americaaud Europe are settled upon the exchange iu England. Is there any thing like a course of exchange between America and the East Indies or China? — No. What is the par of exchange between the United States and Great Britain ? — There has never any been fixed ; what we con- sider as the par of the American or Spanish dullars is is. 6d. sterling. Are the exchanges with England quoted with reference to this par in dollars? — No; they generally draw in pounds sterling. How do you draw upon them ? — Very few such transaction^ ever take place. u 2 (148) minutes of evidence. [S. Williams. If you were to draw a bill upon America, in what terms would you draw it; in dollars or sterling? — In dollars, con- verting the pounds sterling into dollars at 4s. 6d. Is there an exchange of the United States on England, as well as of England on the United States ? — No ; there is only an exchange from America on Great Britain. What is the present exchange from the United States on England, and has that varied much within the last twelve months ? — In the month of January last the drawer in America received from £.96. to £.97. for a bill of £.100. [The Witness gave in a paper, intituled " Average of Exchange, New York on Great Britain, from 1604 to 1808 inclusive, and Exchange at Boston in 1809."] (Acc.N°'6l.) The difference between New York and Boston is pretty steadily one per cent, lower at Boston than at New York, that is, the merchant at Boston gets one percent, less than the merchant at New York. In this mode of stating the exchanges, whether it be in dol- lars or pounds, the par seems to be in fact an equal number of either ? — Yes. It would appear from this account, that the exchange re- mained in favour of this Country from about the beginning of 1805 to the end of 1807, and that during the year 1808, and until April 1809, the exchange was against this Country as much as from 6 to 10 per cent.? — Yes. What do you consider to have been the cause of that state of the exchange in 1803, and the first quarter of 1809? — It was owing to the embargo, and the reduction of exportation from America to this country, to equalize the balance of imports from this Country. What is the expence of transporting specie from the United States to England, covering all theexpencesand risk ? — At this moment it would be about 5 per cent. During the year 1808, when the exchange was from 6 to iO per cent, against the United States, do you know whether any specie was transported from thence to this Country ? — The ex- portation was prohibited of course by the embargo. J.Allen.] minutes of evidence. (149) Veneris, 1 6° die Mar Hi, 1S10. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. John Allen, Esq. called in, and Examined. HAVE yon had any opportunities of acquiring information in respect to the produce of the Mines of Spanish and Portu- guese America within any recent period ? — I was in Spain and Portugal from 1802 to the beginning of 1805, and during that time T endeavoured to procure information upon those sub- jects ; the result of which I am ready to lay before the Com- mittee, as well as other information which I have since col- lected upon the same subject. « Mr. Allen then delivered in " An Account of the pro- duce of the Royal Fifth in the Captain -Generalship of the General and New Mines of Brazil, from the 1st of August 1751 to the 31st of December 1794 ;'* (Ace. N° 2 i.) Also, " An Account of the Royal Fifth from the district of Goiazes in Brazil, from the year 1788 to 1 705, with a table comparing Potugues'e with English weights." (Ace. N° 22.) On what authority do those two Accounts rest ? — They were obtained originally from the books of the Mines from Brazil transmitted to Lisbon, from which books those accounts were extracted by the Gentleman who communicated them to me. Also, " An Account of the Coinage of Mexico, from 1733 to 1793 both inclusive ;" (Ace. N° 23.) What is that work, intituled Merlchorio Peruana, from which this account prolesses to be taken ? — It is a work thai was pub- lished periodically at Lima, by persons who had access to offi- cial and correct information on those points. Also, " An Account of the Coinage of Mexico, in sil- ver, from the year 1795 to 1804, both inclusive ; M (Ace. N° 21.) ' This was given to me by Mr. Angevault Morney, who had received it from Don Emanuel Sexto Espinosa, Director of the Caxa de Aconsolidation at Madrid : Also,, (150) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J.Allen. w An Account of the Produce of the Mines of Peru, of the Coinage of Lima, and of the Mines of Chili, and a general estimate of the Annual Coinage of Spanish America, collected from the different authorities which are stated in the account." (Ace. N 3 25.) Also, *' A Statement, with respect to the Spanish Mint, of Importation of Gold and silver into Spain, and the duties on silver and Gold ;" (Arc. N° -2d.) Also, " An Estimate of the proportional quantities of Gold and silver extracted Annually from the Mines of Spa- nish and Portuguese America' at the present time, compared with the same statement fifty years ago." (Ace. N° 2/.) Mr. Allen desires to state, in giving in this paper, that since he has formed that estimate from the authorities mentioned in this and the preceding Accounts, he has fount) a similar ac- count stated in a foreign work of authority, intituled, Traite Elementaire, by Brongniart, from which he will send an ex- tract to the Committee. Also, " An Account of the produce of the Mines at Potosi, from 1556 to 1600, both inclusive, upon the authorities mentioned in the Accounts. And an Ac- count of the Coinage of the Royal Mint of Potosi, of Gold, from the year 1780 to the year 1790, and of silver from 17 73 to 1790." [Ace. N° 28.) Does it not appear from these papers, that upon the whole, the annual quantity of Gold, from all the Mines taken toge- ther, is in a somewhat decreasing state up to the period of 1794 or thereabouts ? — In the course of half a century it has de- creased in the proportion of about six to five. Do you conceive that since 1794 any particular change in respect to its quantity has taken place ? — I have no informa- tion on the subject, except what I have derived from the work of Brongniart, which I have just mentioned, and from which I shall send an extract to the Committee. I find that he makes the proportion of silver to gold, from 1790 to 1S02, the same which I have calculated it to be at the antecedent period, and which I think is a just inference, if there had been no material alteration in the proportionate quantity, as well as a presump- tion in favour of the accuracy of both statements, J.Jllen.) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (151) What has hcen the increase in the quantity of silver ? — In the course of half a century the increase has been in the pro- portion of three an J a half to two ; my account of three- fifths of the silver produced, reaches down to 1801, and the account of Potosi to 1800. Have you had any opportunity of collecting information with respect to the progressive state of the prices of grain in Spain during the last half century ? — T have here a statement of the prices of wheat and barley in Seville from 1075 to 1764. [Mr. Allen delivered in several Papers.] 11 Prices of theFanega of Wheat andBarley from 1675 to 1761 both inclusive, taken from the current prices in the Market of Seville." {Ace. N° CO.) •' Prices of the Fanega of Wheat and Barley from 1765 to 1737, both inclusive, from a comparison of the Prices in the Market Towns of Castillo. " (Ace. N° 30.) " Prices of the Fanega of Wheat and Barley from 1 788 to 1792, both inclusive, in the chief Market Towns of the two Castilles, Andalusia and Estremadura." (Ace. N° 31.) " Prices of Wheat and Barley from 1793 to 1804, in the Market of Medina and of Rio Seco." (Ace. N° 32.) Is there a paper currency in Spain ? — There was a Govern- ment paper currency, which was depreciated very considerably. Was it forced in payments ? — No, it was not. To what was the depreciation owing ? — I am not prepared to answer that question ; it was partly owing to want of con- fidence in that Government, and partly to an over-issue of paper. Was it a paper currency which circulated in small payments? — No ; it consisted of three sorts of notes ; one of six hundred piastres, one of three hundred, and another of one hundred and fifty. Was the depreciation such as to have occasioned two prices? The paper passed at a depreciated value. Was that paper received by Government in the payment of taxes ? — I believe not. Can you state what the expence is of transporting specie to Spain ? — I can hardly venture to state it from recollection ; I have materials which will enable me to state what the expence (152; minutes of evidence. [J. Whitmore is of transporting specie from Lima to Spain ', what it is from Vera Cruz I do not know. Does the information which you possess, relate to a period of war or peace? — It relates to the period from 1790 to 1796. Have you any means of stating what it is at the present time? —I have not. Do you know whether the importations from the Colonies to the Mother Country have been regular, up to any recent time ? — I believe not ; they have been interrupted by the war with England. Have there been any considerable importations within a verv recent period? — There has, since the cessation of hostilities with England, been a very considerable importation, but I cannot say td what amount. Can you state whether there is any considerable quantity of Gold or silver in circulation, or hoarded, or brought to the market, or laid up in stores, in Spain or Portugal ? — There is n» want of silver in circulation, but there is a scarcity of Gold both in Spain and Portugal : there was not 60 much Gold to be had last year, when I was there, as in 1804. Has not Gold, at the last period to which you have alluded, increased in value when compared with silver, and how much ? — There was always a small agio on Gold in Spain ; it is verv difficult to get any at present, and I believe the agio has in- creased, but I cannot say to what amount. , John IFhitmore, Esq. the Governor, and John Pearse, Esq. the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, called in to- gether ; and Examined. Suppose a case in which no demands were made upon th* Bank by Government for unusual accommodations, but an un- usual demand was made by merchants for increased facilities of discount, would the Bank in such a case consider itself as bound, in order to support public credit, to grant that increase of discounts, although there was a run upon it for Gold occa- sioned by the high price of Bullion and the unfavourable state of the exchange ? — I now consider my answer as mv own opi- nion, not having the opportunity of consulting the Bank upon the question ; in my opinion the Bank would not increase their discounts, nor on the other hand would it, I think, after the andJ. Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (153) experience of the years 1796 and 1797, do well materially to diminish them. Do yon mean that they would lean rather to the side of di- minution ? — They would rather lean to that side than to the other. What do you consider as the result of the experience which the Bank gained in 1796 and 1797, alluded to in your preced- ing answer ? — The experience the Bank gained in those years was, that if they had persisted in diminishing their discounts to a greater degree than they did, they would have brought on ruin to the mercantile part of the community. Did not the diminution of discounts at those periods create great public distress ? — Insomuch so as I have already stated - f many of the Bank Directors repented of the measure. Was not the drain upon the Bank which took place at that time, occasioned chiefly by a demand for an increased quantity of Gold in the Country, in consequence of the failure of coun- try banks, and a disposition to hoard guineas through the fear of invasion ? — To the best of my recollection there were at that period failures of some of the country banks, and that a con- sequent demand was made upon the Bank for guineas ; the cir- cumstance of hoarding may probably also have had some in- fluence upon it. Was not then the distress which at that time attended the restriction of the discounts of the Bank, occasioned by the want of a substitute for bank notes suppressed by the country banks ? — It was, I conceive, occasioned in part by the want of confidence which those failures had occasioned, and the other part by hoarding. If the Government had paid back the advances made to it at that time, would it have been necessary to have reduced those discounts materially ? Mr. Pearse. — I think it would have been absolutely neces- sary for the Bank to have thrown into the public, either by way of discount or in some other way, an equal quantity of bank notes that would have been annihilated by such payments from the Government to the Bank. Such repayment by Go- vernment certainly would have afforded a greater scope to the Bank to give discounts to the merchants, which however must have been ultimately regulated by the extent and continuance W (154) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. WhitmOTB, of the demands made upon it for Gold, as it must be obvious that the Bank (however reluctantly, yet from a regard to its own security) would have found it necessary to diminish the amount of its notes, by withholding discounts in proportion to the run upon it arising from failures of country banks, fears of invasion, and other causes of alarm, although it is equally clear that this diminution, of notes would have aggravated ihe difficulties which occasioned the run upon the Bank, and ren- dering this conduct necessary on its part. May it not be, then, that a proportion of the notes so paid in by Government might have been issued for discounts ? I intended in my former answer to have said it would be ne- cessary to increase the amount of our discounts, having les- sened the advances to Government. Mr. Pearse. — Certainly it might, but still the same neces- sity would have existed on the part of the Bank to have dimi- nished the sum total in circulation in proportion to the call for. Gold, although this would have been attended with the con- sequences to public credit pointed out in the answer to the preceding question. Whether or not there was, in the end of the year 1796 and beginning of the year 1797? a considerable diminution of th£ outstanding notes of the Bank of England ? — There was. Was not much of the public and commercial distress which arose at that period, attributable to that diminution ? Mr: Whltmore. — I have no doubt about it. Mr. Pearse. —-Undoubtedly. Whether, in your opinion, it was not a much wiser mea- sure, relative to the mercantile interests of the Country, that the restriction of cash payments should have taken 1 place in 1 797, than that the Bank should have persevered in diminishing the issue of Bank notes in discount ? Mr. Whltmore.*— Certainly. Whether, before the restriction on the Rank, the demand for Gold did not much more arise from the want of confidence in the security of paper currency, than*from the state of the foreign exchanges? • Mr. Whitmore.— To the best of my recollection it was not owing to the state of the foreign exchanges, but wholly to the wanx,of that confidence. 'iind J. Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (155) In your opinion, has the state of the exchanges at any time very materially operated, before the restriction, to increase the demand on the Bank for Gold ?— In my opinion it has not ; the demand for Gold for exportation depended upon the price of the article in foreign countries. Mr. Pearse. — Within the course of my experience in the Bank, the Hamburgh exchange has never been so much be- low par, previous to the Restriction Bill, as to render it suf- ficiently an object of advantage to individuals to make any material demand for Gold upon the Bank. The state of the exchanges appears generally to have been considerably above par, sometimes as much as 1 1 ^ per cent, above par ; and the lowest rate of it at no time during that period to have exceed- ed 34- per cent, below par, and then but for a few months. Then is the Committee to understand that it is the opinion of the Governor and the Deputy Governor of the Bank, that although the rate of exchange may be much against this Countrv, that the quantity of specie in the Bank would not be materially affected by it, supposing the Bank to be paying in cash I Mr. Whitmore. — I would wish my answer to this question to be considered as connected with my former answer, that if the Hamburgh exchange affords an advantage to the dealers in Gold to send out the specie, that they undoubtedly would do it ; but that is a calculation upon the price of the article abroad. Supposing the paper currency of this Country to be equal to what it was in the year 1796, and the same strong disposi- tion to prevail to convert paper currency into specie, whether the necessity of a restriction on the payment of specie would not arise the same as in the year 1797? — The same cause would, I presume, produce the same effect. (To Mr. Pearse.) — In the instance which you have stated, of the exchange with Hamburgh having been 11 ± per cent, in favour of this Country before 1797, from what par was that exchange calculated ? — From the par which I understand to be in common acceptation, 33. 8. : I am not myself prac- tically acquainted with those exchanges. Do vou consider a drain of guineas in consequence of a (136) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. WMlmOTlt profit to be made by exporting them abroad, and a run for guineas in order to supply the internal circulation of the Country during the moment of alarm, to be cases so exactly alike that the Bank ought to pursue the same line of conduct precisely in both cases, in order to protect itself against the demand for guineas ? Mr. Wkitmorc.—l think the Bank would make a distinction between the two cases. What distinction ? — The distinction would be, that the de- mand for guineas for home purposes would not be of such a serious nature as the demand for exportation. Was it not the demand for guineas for home purposes that immediately produced those apprehensions which were stated by the Court of Directors to Government, upon occasion of which His Majesty w r as advised to issue the Order in Council of the 26th of February 1797 ? — Not having been in the Bank direction, as I before stated, at that period, I was not a party to any of the debates that then took place in the Court of Directors. Mr. Pearse. — It undoubtedly was : with reference to the former question, I would beg to observe that the line of con- duct to be pursued by the Bank in both cases, either of a drain for guineas for the foreign market or for internal de- mands, must of necessity be the same, although in the latter case, as has been already observed, the line of conduct which under similar circumstances I should find it necessary to re- commend, would no doubt increase those difficulties which in the first place rendered the measure indispensable. Is the Committee to understand, that in case of distress in the Kingdom, arising from failures of country banks, and the consequent alarm and hoarding of coin, by which the amount of the circulating medium would be rendered greatly below what the occasions of the public might require, the Bank in case of a demand for diminishing their issue, as if a demand to the same extent had been occasioned by a very unfavourable rate of exchange ? — The cause of the alarm being satisfactorily ascertained to arise from a diminution of the circulating me- dium, it would be obviously advisable that the Bank should endeavour to supply the deficiency thereby occasioned 5 yet the Q7id J. Pearse.") minutes of kvidence. (157) extent and continuance of the demand for guineas must al- ways be a kading consideration with the Bank on such an occasion. You have stated, that in the case of a drain of cash arising from a foreign demand for Gold, accompanied with an un- favourable exchange, at a time when the Bank should be pay- ing in ccsh, you should advise some limitation of Bank paper ; do you think that in the event of an equal demand for Gold from abroad, accompanied with an equally unfavourable ex- change, it would be expedient in like manner to limit the Bank paper, although there should result from this state of the exchange no drain upon the Bank for guineas in conse- quence of the existence of the law authorising a suspension of the Bank payments ? Mr. Whltmurt. — In my opinion, the Bank would act pre- cisely the same in both cases ; with a desire to keep the Gold in the Country, they would refuse discounts to such parties as in their opinion would export the Bullion equally, whether the restriction was upon them or not. Mr. Tearse. — Being of opinion that the amount ot the Bank notes in circulation, controlled as it is by the occasions of the public for internal purposes, cannot influence the rate of the Hamburgh exchange, and the consequent export of Bullion (which opinion is borne out by a statement I have already given in), I should not recommend a diminution of such amount. Do you mean to say, that supposing the Restriction Bill to exist, you should advise some diminution of Bank paper in the event of the long continuance of a very unfavourable ex- change with all foreign countries ? — Certainly not; because I have stated, in a former answer, that from the manner in which the issue of Bank notes is controlled, the public will never call for more than is absolutely necessary for their wants. Did you not menn, in your former answer, to intimate, that supposing the Bank to pay in cash, and a great drain for cash to arise at a time of a very unfavourable exchange, you should incline to advise some diminution of Bank paper, and consequently some restriction of the supply of discounts below the demand that should be made for them ? — I must recom- mend it from necessity, although in my opinion it would not (158) minutes op evidence. [J. Whiimore* improve the exchange ; I think it one of the advantages of the Restriction Bill, that we are not driven to that necessity. Are not you therefore of opinion that the measure of re- striction of the cash payments of the Bank is proper, not merely as a temporary measure to obviate temporary difficulties^ but as a measure of permanent policy ? — Although under ex- isting circumstances the Restriction Bill is found necessary, and experience has proved, as well as I can judge, that no injury results or is likely to result from it, yet in a different situation of affairs, the necessity for its operation might no longer exist. What inconveniencies would you see, in your view of the operation of the restrictive system, to its being a permanent measure, supposing the Bank to regulate its issues in the man- ner you have described ? — From our experience, and in my view of it, I can see no positive inconvenience likely to result from its being a permanent measure, nor do I see any advan- tage that will arise from its being continued when our political and commercial relations will admit of its removal ; and I am further of opinion, that in addition to the satisfaction, which, as a Bank Director, I should derive from the removal of the restriction (when the necessity for it ceases) the feelings of the public would not be satisfied, unless it had in expectation; such a change. (Fid. page 173.) Is the restriction on the Bank a cause of the unsteadiness in: the course of exchange ? — Undoubtedly not. Mr. Whitmore. — 1 concur in that answer. If a large quantity of metallic circulating medium existed in a country capable of exportation, either in the shape of coin or of bullion, must not that prevent the course of ex- change from being much more unfavourable to the country possessing it, than would cover the expences of exportation ? Mr. Pearse. — Undoubtedly ; but the quantity of Bullion in the country for such objects can only depend upon commercial and political transactions, totally unconnected, as far as I can judge, with any effect of the issue of Bank notes. Can any par currency have the same effect ? — I think not. Since the suspension of the" Bank payments in cash down. to the present time, has there been any material extension oi' its commercial discounts ? E. Gilchrist."] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (139) Mr. Whilmore. — I find the commercial discounts have va- ried nearly in proportion to the Bank advances upon other securities; the amount of the Bank notes before Parliament is a certain criterion of the aggregate of their advances on differ- ent securities to Government; and on all securities the dis- counts have certainly increased since 1797> owing, as I con- ceive, to the increased trade of the country. Have thev increased in a very large proportion ? — Within the three last years they have increased considerably. Lunce, 19° die Murtii, 1810. WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. in the Chair. Ebenezer Gilchrist, Esq. called in, and Examined. 1 BELIEVE you are the principal manager of the Bank in Scotland, under the denomination of the British Linen Com- pany?. — Yes, I am. Is that a chartered Bank ? — Yes, it is. What may be the capital of that Bank ? — Two hundred thousand pounds. How many more chartered Banks are there in Scotland ? — . Two ; the Bank of Scotland, and the Royal Bank. Do you know the capital of those two Banks? — I believe the capital is £. 1,500,000. each. How many branches may each of the chartered Banks have? — I believe the Bank of Scotland has twenty branches. The Royal Bank has only one, which is at Glasgow. The British Linen Company has thirteen branches. How many Banks, issuing notes, are there in Scotland, which are not chartered ? — I should think there are about one or two and twenty. How many of those are in Edinburgh ? — There are five Banks in Edinburgh ; two in addition to the three chartered Banks. How many in Glasgow ? — Only three, besides a branch of the Royal Bank. Can you say generally, whether the notes payable on dc- (1<50) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [E. Gilchrist . niand, issued by all the Banks, amount, in your opinion, at this time to a larger sum than at the time when the Bank of England was restricted from paying specie? — I think the paper circulation of Scotland has increased since that period, in con- sequence of the increased trade of the Country and the exten- sive agricultural improvements in Scotland. Has the number of Banks increased since that period? — I think it has, but not very considerably. In what way are the capitals of the chartered Banks gene- rally employed? — I believe they are employed in the discount- ing of such bills as may be offered to them for that purpose, and as are considered to be safe. Do you mean bills on London at a certain date, and at what date ? — I mean bills on Edinburgh or Glasgow, and all parts of Scotland, as well as London. Is any part of the capital employed on mortgage or in loans of any other kind ? — It is not the practice of the banks of Scotland to lend money on mortgage. Is not a considerable part of the capitals of the banks of Scotland, in your opinion, laid out in the purchase of Exche- quer Bills or other Government securities, which may be con- verted into Bank of England notes on the shortest notice? — Certainly, part of the funds of the Banks is so employed. Do not you think that to be a necessary measure for the security of the creditors of the Banks, and in order that the Banks may be able to meet the demands upon them ? — I con- sider it to be necessary. It is the object of all bankers in Scotland to keep large funds in London at all times, exclusive of the stock of specie and Bank of England notes kept at home for immediate use. Can you form any opinion of the amount of notes payable to bearer on demand which is in circulation in Scotland? — ■ My own conjecture is that it may be from two millions to two millions and a half; but it is not a subject upon which I can speak with accuracy. Can you -ay what proportion the circulation of specie in Scotland bears to that quantity of notes ? — A very small pro- portion indeed. Is it not your opinion that the Banks of Scotland have very greatly contributed to the increase of the trade and manufac- E.Gilchrist.} MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (lGl) tares of Scotland! — Yes, I am decidedly of that opinion ; and here 1 may observe, that there is no instance of any Bank, in Scotland having failed ultimately to pay all demands upon it. The Ayr Bank., the history of winch is well known, ulti- mately paid every thing. Do you apprehend that that increase could have taken place by any other means than the establishment or' Banks in Scot- land? — Without some such facility existing as the Banks have afforded, I do not think it could. What are the facilities or' doing business which the Banks in Scotland give to the merchants and manufacturers there ? — The Bankers give their notes in discount tor bills at two and three months date payable in Scotland and in London. The Banks likewise open with the merchants and manufacturers cash accounts. In what way are those accounts kept by the Banks in Scot- land ? — A credit is always established with the Banks by a bond with one or two sureties, and the merchant is allowed to draw to the amount of that bond without making any previous deposit of money. If a person has credit for j€. 1000. and draws out the whole amount, he pays interest from that period at the rate of five per cent. If he reduces the amount by pay- ing in the next day :£'. 500. the interest of J.'. 500 ceases from that time* Do you charge any commission on accounts of this sort? — No. Only the five per cent, lor the time? — Only the five per cent, for the time. What interest do you allow for money deposited with you? — Four per cent, if it lies six months. Do you think the quantity of bank notes circulated by the bankers in Scotland, has tended to prevent the circulation of coin or Bank of England notes in Scotland ? — Ever since I knew any thing of the circulation of Scotland, it has consisted principally of the notes of bankers in Scotland. Is the system of cash accounts as now practised in Scotland, the same as was practised fifty years ago? — Yes, I do believe it is exactly the same. What is the object of the Banks in Scotland in keeping large sums of money in London ? — The chief reason is, that they may procure Bank of England notes to answer auv d< - M (162) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [T. TIlOmpSOTt. mands upon them, and for the purpose of settling the balances with each other in exchanging notes, which is always done by bills upon London. Do not the Scotch bankers discount bills sent to them by London bankers, and give orders for the payment in London? — I never heard of such a practice. What is the par date in drawing on London ? — From Edin- burgh we draw at forty days. Do you not give a premium fof bills on London on de- mand ? — We grant a premium of one quarter per cent, for bills upon London on demand. Has there been any fluctuation in the exchange between Edinburgh and London, since the restriction of the cash pay- ments of the Bank of England ? — None at all. In what proportion do you conceive the paper circulation of Scotland has increased since the Bank restriction ? — I really cannot answer that question without more consideration. Is it double ? — I should think not double, but perhaps one third more than before the restriction. Are you of opinion that the paper circulation of Scotland is confined within the limits which the occasions of the public require? — I believe it is. What is the criterion by which you judge of the occasions of the public ? — We are regulated in our issues by the general state of credit at the lime. If the Bank of England were to restrict their issues, of course the Scotch Banks would find it necessary to diminish theirs. In what manner do the issues of the Bank of England ope- rate upon the issues of the Banks of Scotland ? — They operate upon the issues of the Banks of Scotland in this manner : If the Banks of Scotland issue more than they ought to do in proportion to the issues of the Bank of England, they would be called upon to draw bills upon London at a lower rate of exchange. Thomas Thompson, Esq. a Member of the Committee, Examined. Do you believe the country banks in England have greatly increased in number since the year 1797 ? — They have more than doubled in number. T.Thompson.'] minutes op evidence. (163) Do vou believe that the amount of country bank notes now in circulation is double the amount in circulation in 1797, or more? — In the years 1796 and 1797, the circulation of the pap ir of country bankers was very greatly reduced, and I think that the circulation now is probably mure than double the sum in circulation at the time when the Bank of England was restricted irom paying in specie. Do you conceive it to be double what it was before the alarm at the end of ] 796 and the beginning of 1797 had operated to reduce the amount then in circulation? — By no means; I think the quantity of paper in circulation at this time, does not exceed by more than one fourth, the circulation before the period of alarm referred to. I wish however my answer to be understood as confined to the paper in circulation in the North of England. If from any circumstance before the restriction on the Bank of England, a drain for guineas took place, were not the. country banks liable to be affected in the same manner? — Cer- inly ; any extraordinary demand for specie would in its ef- fect be felt. b\ the country bankers. Would not such an extraordinary demand in its effects tend to diminish the amount of country bank paper in circulation ? — It would, as all prudent bankers would regulate their issues of paper by the demand upon them for specie. By what criterion do they now regulate their issues of pa- per ? — By the plenty or scarcity of Bank of England notes. Then their issues bear a proportion to the issues of the Bank ? — In my opinion they do. Does it consist with your knowledge that country banks make advances upon real security ? — It is not the practice, as far as I know; and I conceive it would be extremely impru- dent in any country banker to do so. Is it a common practice for country bankers to advance their notes upon goods, or upon bonds, or other securities not pay- able at short dates ? — I do not think it is the practice amongst country bankers who understand their business. Do not country bankers find it necessary to keep a deposit of Bank of England notes in proportion to the issues of their own paper, and to the probable demands which may bfe made upon them for the payment of that paper ? — Every (v,-) (1(54) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [7". Thompson. ■ country banker who wishes to preserve his credit, will keep by him such a sum in Bank of England notes as will answer all the demands which arc likely to be made upon him until he can receive fresh supplies from London ; and in London he will keep such funds as may upon the shortest notice be convertible into Bank of England notes, to enable him to pay all the demands which can possibly be made upon him. Do you know whether the amount of Bank of England notes circulated in the country, has increased or diminished since the year 1797? — 1 do not think there has been much alteration in the quantity of Bank of England notes in circu- lation in the north of England since that period, but I believe that the quantity of Bank of England notes in the hands of the country bankers in general is considerably increased, as Bank of England notes are now kept by country bankers in- stead of specie, and I believe that a great part of the specie which was in the hands of the country bankers has been sent to the Bank of England. Do you conceive that the quantity of Bank of England notes kept by country bankers in the course of the last three, four, or five years, has been increased ? — Since the restriction on the payments of specie at the Bank of England, the Cold which was usually kept by the country bankers for the pay- ment of their notes has been changed into Bank of England notes, and the quantity of Bank of England notes kept by the country bankers I conceive may fluctuate in proportion to the general credit of country bankers' notes. Have there not been fewer interruptions to the credit of country bank paper since the suspension of the payments at the Bank, than there were before ? — I think there have. Has not then the credit of country banks upon the whole rather increased ? — In the North of England it has ; I cannot speak particularly to every part of England. Do you not then think that country bankers, in conse- quence of a increasing confidence in their solidity, may have become somewhat disposed to keep a less stock of Bank of England notes ? — I think they may. J-Jas it not been lately more and more the practice of coun- try bankers to issue optional notes, that is, notes payable either at their banks in the country or in London, and even to i T. Thompson.'] minutes op evidence. (lt» r >) issue sonic optional notes of one and two pounds ; and do not tho?e notes circulate much in the same manner as Bank of England notes ? — That may be true in some degree in the south of England; but north of the 1 lumber no optional notes are issued. Do you not think that the increase of optional notes must Jiave tended to the diminution of the number of the Bank of England notes circulating in the country ? — I think not in any great degree, as Bank of England notes, f believe, have not a large circulation in the country fifty or sixty miles from London. Mav not the increase in the number of country banks which has taken place in the last few years, have contributed to aug- ment the quantity of country bank paper in place:', in which .Bank of England notes had antecedently circulated ? — Yes, it may. May it not have in some degree diminished the quantity of Bank of England notes circulating in the country ; only give the same answer to this as to the la^t question. During the distress in the country, which happened in 1793 and 1797, do you recollect to have heard of any material fall in the price of articles of trade in consequence of the sudden scarcity of the circulating medium ? — I do not, althom probably was the case, as the prices of all commodities will be effected by the scarcity of the circulating medium. Did you observe that the prices fell in a greater decree where there was a greater degree of local distress, occasioned failure of country bankers ? — Where the distress was the greatest, the effect of that distress would be the most obvious; but in consequence of the assistance which was given to the country by the loan of exchequer bills, the general credit was in a short time restored, and the inconveniences were far less than might have been expected. Was there not a great stagnation in trade then ?— Yes, cer- tainly, for a short time. You have stated, that, before the restriction on the Bank of England, had any extraordinary drain for guineas taken place at the Bank of England, it would in its effects have rx en fell by the country bankers; are you aware that when a drain was occasioned by an unfavourable course • change, the inducements to withdraw Gold from the Bank v\a$ (!6C) MINUTES of EVI15EN< E. [T. Thompson, the profit which might arise from exporting or melting down the guineas ?— -The inducement to withdraw guineas from the Bank of England in consequence of an unfavourable course of exchange, must undoubtedly be the profit which would arise to those persons who so acted. Might not that also be an inducement to the holders of pa- per of the country banks to withdraw Gold from those banks I ■ — The cause which induced persons to withdraw Gold from the Bank of England, might induce others to withdraw Gold from the country banks. Inasmuch as there can be no such inducement at pr for bringing in the paper of country banks for payment, what interest has any holder of such country bank paper to convert it into bank notes, supposing no alarm to be felt as to the credit and solidity of the country bankers by whom such paper was issued? — If the holder of a country bank note cannot obtain Gold for it, he has no inducement to carry in such note to be exchanged for a Bank of England note, if he have per- fect confidence in the country bank, and if he be under no necessity of making payments in a part of the kingdom to which the circulation of country bank paper does not extend. Then the only corrective which now exists against an exces- sive issue of notes by any particular country bank is, that such notes would be returned to him, either for Bank of Eng- land notes or for a bill of exchange upon London ? — Certainly. Then are not country hankers less liable to be called upon to change their notes for those of the Bank of England, than they were to be called upon to pay them in cash, before the restriction on ihe Bank of England ? — Undoubtedly ; espe- cially as the notes of several country bankers, within my knowledge, are in as great credit in the couniry as Bank of England notes. Then it is not necessary for a country banker to be provided with the same amount in bank notes, in proportion to his issues, as he was, before the restriction, obliged to keep in Gold? — I think he is not. R. Bingkij.'] mixutks of evidence. (167) Marlis, 20° die Marti/, 1810. WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. in the Chair. Robert Bingley, Esq. The King's Assay Master of the Mint, called in, and Examined. HAVE you brought down the information required by tho order of the Committee, with respect to deficiency in the weight of the Gold coin of this country in circulation? — I conceive that the Gold coin now in circulation is not more deficient in weight than it was at the last examination, as ap- pears by the paper delivered in by Mr. Morrison ; it may pos- sibly be even of better weight, owing to the circumstance of the refiners conceiving themselves at liberty to melt down such guineas as were reduced in weight below five pennyweights eight grains, which must improve the average weight of those remaining in circulation. What information can you give the Committee respecting the relative value of Gold and silver in tiie coins of foreign countries, as ascertained by any assays that may have been made for this purpose ? — I am not aware of any variation in the relative quantity and fineness of Gold and silver in the coins of foreign countries, since the Tables published by the late Earl of Liverpool, in his Letter to the King upon Coin ; which Tables are considered as accurate, except in the in- stance of the new regulations in the Paris mint in 1503 or 1S01, by which ihe proportion of Gold to silver was esta- blished at 1 5£ to one, they having before been in the propor- tion of 15-- to one. Have you by actual assay ascertained that the proportions established by the regulation" of the mints of foreign coun- tries are actually preserved in the coins of such countries? — They arc not accurately preserved, on account of what is called the remedy or allowance for fallibility of workmanship taken in foreign mints. Bv an actual assay of the new Gold coin of France, 1 have found, that instead of being as 15 7, the propor- tion v. to one ; by the mint regulation of Amsterdam, Gold is to silver as H T 7 ( , to one, by the assay l-l/,,- to one. In Spain, the mint regulations are in the proportion of 16 to (168) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [/?. BillgletJ. one ; I have found by actual assay the state of doubloons of 1772 is as 15 T V to one j and according to doubloons of 1801, assays are as 16-yVV to one. Will there not be frequently a little alteration, iii taking coins that are minted at different times at the same mint un- der the same regulations ? — Yes, no doubt of it ; but in no country is the standard preserved with such accuracy as in England. Have the variations in other countries been increasing va- riations during late years ? — I do not know that they have, it has always been the case. What is now the proportionate rate of Gold and silver in Europe? — The proportionate rate of silver to Gold in this country is 15-2096 to one. What information can you give to the Committee concern- ing the par of exchange between Great Britain and foreign countries ? — I do not feel myself competent to give a decided answer on that subject. In the Account of Goid and silver coined at the Mint since 1 797* &c. ordered by the House of Commons the 20th of February 1810, it is stated from the Mint, that three or four hundred thousand pounds of gold has been coined on an ave- rage in the last nine or ten years; has any part of that coinage consisted of guineas ? — No, it consisted of half-guineas and seven-shilling pieces. Did the two to three millions coined in each of the years 1797 and 1798 consist of guineas ? — Principally of guineas. Is the new Mint ready for the purpose of coinage? — Very nearly ; it might be so in a short time, if necessary. Within what time could the new Mint be made ready for coining? — Within two months, if necessary. Can you slate the fineness and weight of the present Rus- sian coins? — The Russian imperial of 1772 weighs 8 penny- weights and eleven grains, being a Gold coin ; worse than standard a quarter of a carrat grain, which equals fifteen troy grains. The half imperial 1780 weighs four pennyweights 2.£ grains, the same fineness as the last. The Russian ducat of the year 1796 weighs two pennyweights six grains, and is better than standard one carrat c 2{ grains. The half ducat 1 785 one pennyweight 14^ grains, worse half a grain. The Gold Dr. Kelly.) minutes of evidence. (169) ruble of 1 779, 18| grains, worse one quarter of a carrat grain ; the half ruble of 1/77 weighs nine grains, and is standard of this country. The silver ruble of 1802, 13 pennyweights one grain and a half, and is worse than the standard thirteen pennyweights in the pound. The half ruble of 1604 weighs 6 pennyweights thirteen grains and a half, and is worse four- teen pennyweights. You have no ruble of earlier years ? — No, I have not. Have you made any assays upon the coins of the United States of America? — Yes, I have tried several of them; the American proportions are 15 to one; and according to their actual coins \5 T ^ nr The half eagle weighs 5 pennyweights and fifteen grains. Dr. Kslly called in, and Examined. Have you turned your attention to the subject of the cur- rencies of the different states of Europe, and to the course of exchange between Great Britain and foreign countries ? — I have for many years. What, according to the mint regulations of foreign coun- tries, is the proportion of line Gold to that of silver in their respective coins ; and what would be the par of exchange of each of those countries with England, calculating upon a com- parison of our coins, according to the mint regulations of thia country with the coins of those countries ? — The Table which I now present to the Committee, I believe, will shew those proportions, as also the variation between the proportion established by the mint regulations of foreign countries, and the actual proportion as ascertained by assays recently made for me at His Majesty's Mint ; it will also shew what 1 con- ceive to be the intrinsic par of exchange between the countries therein enumerated, and England, Gold against Gold and Silver against Silver, both as that par stands according to the mint regulations and according to the assays above mentioned- [Same delivered in.] {Ace. N° 59.) (*) 07ft) SIMDTEi Or EV1DBKCE. [J. FtOTSg. Mercum, 21° die Murtii, 1810. WILLIAM H U S K I S S O N, Esq. in the Chair. John Peurse, Esq. Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, called in, and Examined. WHAT is the criterion by which the Bank regulates the amount of its advances to Government so as to guard against the possibility of any excess in the issue of its paper ? — That Government will not find it necessary to apply to the Bank for accommodation by advance on its securities, inasmuch as in consequence of any excess of Bank paper in circulation they would be able to sell such securities in the open market. Then the criterion of an excess is when that description of Government securities upon which the Bank is accustomed to make its advances are not tendered to the Bank for such advances, in consequence of Government being able to dis- pose of them to better advantage in the open market ? — Cer- tainly. Suppose the wants of Government very large, and Exche- quer bills in the market at a discount, would the Bank advance the sum required by Government ? — It would depend upon the advances already made, the whole amount of Exchequer bills in circulation, and from such considerations as might arise on such an occasion. Then Exchequer bills being at a discount, is no criterion in the Bank advances to Government ? — It is no fixed criterion. Then the security against the possibility of any excess in circulation arising either from discounts or from advances to Government is the same, namely, that no application can be made for issues beyond what the occasions of the public require; and that as- soon as those occasions are satisfied, the applications to, the Bank will of course cease, and be made elsewhere ? — Certainly. In your opinion does the current rate of interest in any country depend permanently upon the quantity or its circu- lating medium ? — I think it depends upon the quantity ol J. Pearse.") minutes op evidence. (171) capital existing in a country, and the opportunities which are afforded to that capital of being profitably employed. IF then in any country there was permanently a great excess in the circulating; medium, the state of capital of such country, and the opportunities of employing it remaining the same, would such permanent excess tend to loWer the rate ot in- terest r — Nothing but an increase of capital, the opportunities of employing it remaining the same, can tend to lower the rate of interest in any country; and it is only m whatever de- gree an increase of circulating medium permanently increases *he capital of a country, that it can have any tendency per- manently to lower the rate of interest. Can anv excess in the circulation of this country arise from the present system of issuing paper by the country hanks, having reference in your answer to the restrictions upon the Bank of England ?— I am not aware that the Restriction Bill can have had any material effect upon the amount of the issues of country banks, as the sum total of Bank of England paper has increased in so small a proportion, compared to that which I conceive to be the increase of country bank paper ; an increase on the part of the Bank of England, seemingly not more than is to be accounted for by what must be required by the augmentation of revenue, and the great extension of commerce of the Metropolis requiring such addition to the circulating medium. Does not the increase of discounts which has taken place by the Bank, and the consequent experience of the country banker, that he can command Bank of England notes by sending up paper for discount, encourage the country banker to emit more than he would otherwise think it prudent to do ? — In the practice of the Bank upon the subject of discounts, it has been actively alive to discourage the discounting of such paper as seems to have an immediate connexion between the country bankers and their agepts in London: when such ac- counts have gone to an unreasonable height, under such cir- cumstances they have refused discounting tbeir paper, although there were no doubts of their solidity. Is it not found, notwithstanding this precaution on the part of the Bank, that a considerable portion of the paper they itiscount, is paper drawn from the country by country bankers (Z2) (172) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. WhltmOTe and others. upon bankers in London ? — Though the amount is considerable, it bears no great proportion to the whole. Has not the amount of bill? drawn from the country by country hankers and others, and offered at the Bank for dis- count, much increased since the period of the restriction ? — The numbers that have been offered for discount have certainly greatly increased ; and with the intention on the part of the Bank to limit them as much as their influence can effect, it has not been able, with reference to the accommodations asked by persons bringing such notes, to prevent their being in amount beyond what they were previous to the Restriction Bill, but not perhaps greater in amount comparatively with the sum total of our discounts, comparing what those discounts were at the time of the Restriction Bill with what they are now : I speak only from memory. Do you not conceive that the quantity of country bank pa- per circulating in the kingdom bears nearly the same propor- tion to the occasions of those parts in which it circulates, as the Bank of England paper bears to the occasions of those districts in which Bank of England paper exclusively circu- lates ? — If the country bankers regulated and limited their issues upon the same principle as uniformly governs the Bank of England, I do not see how any excess can arise in their cir- culating paper; but if any of their paper is issued otherwise than as representing securities arising out of real transactions and payable at fixed and not distinct periods, I conceive such an excess may obtain, and in whatever degree such an excess may exist, the proportion between the country bank paper and the Bank of England paper to the occasions of their respective districts would differ. Veneris, 23° die Marin, 1810. WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. in the Chair. John Wkitmore, Esq. the Governor, and John Pearse, Esq. the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, called in together; and Examined. IF.it were not for this feeling. (Fide p, 15S.) or expectation and J. Pearse."] minutes of evidence. (173) on the part of the Public, should you be of opinion, that it would be expedient to continue the restriction as a permanent measure, inasmuch as it would not only relieve the Bank from the expence of purchasing and keeping a large supplv of Bul- lion, but also effectually protect both them and the public from a repetition of those inconveniences which first led to the restriction, and that these advantages would be produced with- out creating any other inconvenience by which they might be counterbalanced. Air. Pearse. — I have already stated in answer to a former question, that I am not aware of any positive inconvenience resulting from the present operation of the Restriction Bill, or likely to result from its being rendered permanent, except as far as regards an expectation on the part of the public that it will be removed; but this circumstance is, in my opinion, essential, and cannot be kept out of view in any consideration of the subject. Whether it would be advisable to secure the public against a liability to the recurrence of the inconveniences thaf led to the Restriction Bill, by sacrificing their feelings on this point, and absolutely removing all expectation of its beincr only a temporary measure, appears to me to be entirely a po- litical question, on which I do not conceive myself qualified to give an opinion : but I may venture to observe, that public credit and public opinion always go hand in hand, and that the one is invariably influenced by the other. As far as con- cerns the keeping of Bullion, I am of opinion that the Bank does not entertain a wish to be relieved from having a large supply, having in this, and all other instances, always govern- ed itself by an attention to the public interest as well as its own. Has the present unfavourable state of exchange any influ- ence upon the amount of your issues ? Mr. IVkitmorti. — It has no influence upon the amount of our issues, having acted precisely in the same way as we did before. Does there, in your opinion, exist any excess in the circu- lation of the kingdom, arising from the amount of issues of the country banks ? Mr. Pearse. — I have no practical knowledge of the amount of country bank paper, nor any means of judging of what (174) minutes of evidence. [J. Whitmore mav be necessary as a circulating medium. There seems to be a great increase within a short time, especially within the last two or three years, greater than f can imagine any altera- tion of circumstances within that time can legitimately call for. Does not. all country paper, so long as it continues out, circulate at par; or in other words, is it not interchangeable with paper of the Bank of England ? — It must circulate at par, or it would return upon the parties that issue it. Before the restriction, were not country bankers liable to an extraordinary demand for Gold whenever there was any continued run upon the Bank of England ? — Certainly. Mr. Whitmore. — I agree perfectly with what Mr. Pearse say*. Has the holder of the paper of any country bank any in- terest to convert it into Bank notes, if he feels no alarm as to the credit and solidity of the country bank ? Mr. Pearse. — I should think not. Before the restriction, was there not such an interest to ex- change country bank paper for Gold whenever the market price was materially above the mint price for Gold ; and did not such an exchange, whenever it took place, lead to a diminu- tion of the circulation ? — Although the exchange was often unfavourable to this country previous to the restriction, it was never in my experience sufficiently so to produce such an effect ; but as it is now so materially unfavourable, no doubt every exertion would be used to get possession of Gold. Are you aware that it is the custom for bill brokers to get London bills, and send them down to the country banks for discount, for which such country banks remit bills at a date upon London, to be carried to the Bank for discount ? Mr. Whitmore. — We know that such a practice exists, but do not know through what channel the bills are sent into the country for discount; and such practice is as miuh discou- raged by the Bank as their information will enable them. Do not you know that considerable sums in Gold have been sent by the country bankers to the Bank of England, since the restriction, through the medium of their bankers in town, for the purpose of being exchanged for Bank of England Notes ? — Since the restriction, the Bank has received from the London bankers several sums in Gold under the authority of the Act of Parliament, upon the condition of returning to the parties a and J. Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (175) certain part when demanded of us, which demand to the full extent, in several instances, has not been made of us j but none. has come in of late years. So long as the market price of Gold continues to be above £.4 per ounce, and the course of exchange with foreign coun- tries in a corresponding degree unfavourable to England, will not the stock of Gold in the Bank be continually decreasing by ihe issues which must unavoidably be made for certain small payments, or for the public service, so that in the course of time, were the present state of things to continue, and the Bank not to purchase at a great loss, the whole would be exhausted? — The purchases made by the Bank have been at a very great loss, and ihey would think it their duty to sacrifice still more to the public service, to keep up the quantity of specie for the purposes for which it is used. Mr. Pearse. — It will certainly be decreasing, although the diminution from those causes may be considerable ; I cannot imagine the possibility of their continuance to such an extent. Is there not reason to apprehend that those small payment* will become necessarily more numerous in proportion as the exchange is more against us, the issue for instance being larger when Gold is at j£\ 4. 12s. than when it was at j£\ 4. Is. per ounce ? Mr. IVhilmore. — The issue of Gold for the small payments alluded to has not increased. Do you apprehend that any considerable difficulty or any evil would arise from the suppressing the circulation of all one pound notes at the end of eighteen months, by the pass- ing of an Act for that purpose, and in the same manner sup- pressing the circulation of all two pound notes at the end of two years \ Mr. Pearsq. — Tho^e objections that are entertained (under the present state of the exchange) to taking off the Restriction Dili, are against such a measure. Ii the capital of the Bank were to be doubled, would the Governor think the Director? justified in extending the issues of their notes in proportion ? Mr. JVhitmore. — I think that no increased demand would be made upon us in consequence oi the increase of our capital. Can the Governor of the Bank of England form any qsii- (1*6) MW1WES OP evidence. [J. IVhitrnorf mate of the average amount of the daily payments made by all the London bankers put together ? — I should like much to answer that in the affirmative, but I cannot find out any source of information to satisfy my mind. Which are you of opinion, that it exceeds or falls short of five millions ? — I should conceive considerably above five millions. Are those payments effected principally in Bank of England paper? — Wholly in Bank of England notes, with the excep- tion of fractional sums. Taking the daily average amount so low as five millions, does it not follow that in the course of the year the notes of the Bank of England in circulation are employed in making payments of ahove 1,500,000.000 sterling, on the counters of the London bankers alone ? — According to the opinion that I entertain, it will amount to that. Taking into consideration the quantity of Bank of England paper necessary for country bankers, and the various other uses and applications for which it is demanded, does it not follow that there is only a certain limited proportion of the total amount of Bank of England paper in circulation, available for effecting the payment of this 1,500 million ? — It is only part of the circulation that is available for such purpose. If the amount of Bank of England notes were in any way to be increased one half, that is from twenty to thirty millions, can it be supposed that the purposes for which it is required would be increased in the same proportion ? — The surplus quantity, not being wanted, would immediately revert to us. So long as the restriction continues, in what mode would the surplus be returned ? — By a diminished application for dis- counts and advances upon government securities, which would in effect reduce the number of bank notes in circulation. Can you form any opinion as to the probable average of the Gold in circulation, exclusive of the amount in the coffers of the Bank for three years previous to the restriction ? — I can form no opinion. Which are you most disposed to believe, it exceeded or fell short of twenty millions ? — In my opinion below twenty mil- lions. Has the Governor of the Bank any opinion as to what has become of the greater part of that proportion of our Gold coin and J. Pearse.] minutes of evidence. (l 77) which has disappeared from circulation ? — My opinion is, that the high price abroad has taken it out of this country. You have stated, in a former part of your evidence, that be- fore the restriction of 1797 the Bank had particularly objected to advances they were under on account of Treasury acceptances 5 had that objection reference to the amount of their advances to Government being too large, owing to such acceptances, or to any other circumstance of inconvenience ? — I was not a party to the discussions of the Bank at that period, but if I had been there my objection would have been to the nature of the secu- rity, and not to the amount advanced upon it. In what respect was this security objectionable? — A doubt in my mind, whether the Bank, under its charter, was com- petent to make advances upon that description of security. LuncBy 26° die Mar til, 1810. WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. in the Chair. Thomas Richardson, Esq. called in, and Examined. I BELIEVE you are a bill broker ?— Yes. You are also an agent for country banks ? — Yes. Have country banks increased in number since the restriction on the Bank of England ? — Verv considerably. Can you tell in what proportion ? — No, I never made any calculation. Do you know how many country banks there are ? — No, I do not, it might be easily ascertained from the printed Lists of Country Bankers. Are you aware that the notes of the country bankers in cir- culation are much increased ? — I have no doubt of it ; very considerably. Are those notes which are made payable in London increas- ed ? — Yeo, I should -think very much. Do you mean the notes of country banks generally are in- creased ? — Yes, both descriptions j those made payable in Lon- don, and those which are not. What means have you of knowing they arc increased ? — Ge- neral observation. (a a) (178) minutes of evidence. [T. Richardson, What is the nature of the agency for country banks ? — It is two-fold ; in the first place to procure mouey for country bankers on bills when they have occasion to borrow on dis- count, which is not often the case ; and in the next place, to lend the money for the country bankers on bills on discount. The sums of money which I lend for country bankers on dis- count are fifty times more than the sums borrowed for country bankers. Do you send London bills into the countrv for discount ?— Yes. Do you receive bills from the country upon London in re- turn, at a date, to be discounted ? — Yes, to a very considerable amount, from particular parts of the country. Are not both sets of bills by this means under discount ? — No, the bills received from one part of the country are sent down to another part for discount. And they are not discounted in London ? — No. In some parts of the country there is but little circulation of bills drawn upon London, as in Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Sussex, &c. but there is there a considerable circulation of country bank notes, principally optional notes. In Lancashire there is little or no circulation of country bank notes ; but there is a great circula- tion of bills drawn upon London at two or three months date. I receive bills to a considerable amount from Lancashire in particular, and remit them to Norfolk, Suffolk, &c. where the bankers have large lodgements, and much surplus money to advance on bills for discount. Do you not send bills drawn in London by one merchant upon another, to be discounted in the country ? — Yes, to a considerable amount. Are not bills of that description called notes, in London ? — Generally so. How do you get your remittances for those bills that you so send to be discounted I — In bills that have three or four days to run, or by orders for cash on bankers in London. What part of the country are they sent into ? — Norfolk, Suffolk, &c. and small sums into some parts of Yorkshire. Are not the returns sometimes made in bills at two months, or other dates ? — It is very seldom the case, unless it be in ex- change for a bill of a much longer date. T. Richardson.'] minutes of evidence. (179) Do not transactions of this nature take place to the amount of several hundred thousand pounds a year ? — I have never had any transaction of the. sort last described. In the modes of dis- counting previously mentioned, many millions go through my hands in a year. How many millions pass through your hand; in the course of the year ? — I should certainly speak within bounds if I say seven or eight millions. Do the country bankers in general keep agents in London, exclusive of the bankers on whom they draw ? — No, not of the description of which I am. Are not the agents principally employed for the purpose of lending the money of the country bankers on discount on bills accepted in London ? — We arc employed both by those who have money to lend, and those who want to borrow money. You have stated, that seven millions of money pass through your hands annually; what proportion of that may you have lent for country bankers on discount ? — A million and a half. I speak of the sum outstanding upon discount at one time, on account of country bankers, which, multiplied about four or five times in the year, owing to the bills being from two to three months, will amount to the aggregate sum which I have mentioned. Then it follows that the seven millions which have passed through your hands, have been lent for country bankers on dis- count ? — Yes, I have no transactions whatever but which re- late to discount. Do you know, in point of fact, whether such transactions as you have now described, were, in practice previous to the suspension of the cash payments of the Bank ? — Yes, they were. Do you know whether they were practised to a similar ex- tent ? — No, they were not. In what proportion, compared with the present time ? — I cannot form any exact criterion. Can you state to the Committee the cause of such difference ? — I believe it to be on account of the increase of country paper, and also Bank of England paper. Are the bills so discounted on behalf of the country banks such as the Bank of England would refuse to discount ?— At (2 A 2) (150) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [T. Richards* least two- thirds of them, on account of" their having more than 65 days to run. Are there any other reasons for which you think the Bank would refuse discounting such bills ? — Yes. State them. — Some houses have more occasion for discount than others ; the Bank only take a limited amount. The busi- ness of some houses arises principally at one period of the year when they make their sales ; they then want larger accommo- dations than the Bank would afford them, and many of the bills being indirect, by which I mean not discountable at the Bank without two London indorsements. Do you ever discount bills for London bankers through the medium of your country correspondents ? — I do not believe that it is a general practice for the London bankers to apply for any such discounts. Will you state what sum of money belonging to country bankers has been employed by you in the last year in the pur- chase of Exchequer bills, and other Government securities? — In Exchequer bills I ao not think £.1,000. In what other securities? — Occasionally we buy stock for country bankers, but only to a very limited amount. Do you guaranty the bills you discount, and what is your charge per cent. ? — No, we do not guaranty them ; our charge is one-eighth per cent, brokerage upon the bill discounted — but we make no charge to the lender of the money. Do you consider that brokerage as a compensation for the skill which you exercise in selecting the bills which you thus get discounted ? — Yes, for selecting of the bills, writing let- ters, and other trouble. Does the party who furnishes the money give you any kind of compensation ?— None at all. Does he not consider you as his agent, and in some degree responsible for the safety of the bills which you give him ?— • Not at all. Does he not prefer you on the score of his judging that you will give him good intelligence upon that subject ? — Yes, he relies upon us. Do you then exercise a discretion as to the probable safety of the bills ? — Yes ; if a bill conies to us which we conceive not to be safe, we return it. T. Richardson.] minutes op evidence. (isi) Do you not then conceive yourselves to depend in a great measure for the quantity or business which you can perform our the favour of the party lending the money ? — Yes, very much so. If we manage Our business well, we retain our friends; it we do not, we lose them. Is not the quantity of business which you can do, limited in a great measure by the amount of ihe ready money which you are enabled to supply ? — Yes, no doubt of it. Does not then the quantity of discountable bills transmitted to you, depend on -the quantity of read v money which you are able to furnish r — Yes, but we find that the better our bills, the more readily we obtain money on discount, as more people aiv induced to take bills on discount instead of buying Exche- quer b'lis, or vesting money in the funds. Do you not then conceive that the quantity of discountable bills that is drawn depends on the extent of the supply of ready money which the country bankers issuing country bank notes are able to furnish ? — No, T do not ; for when the country bankers are poor, the London bankers are often full of money. Do you not conceive, then, that it depends on the quantity of ready money which the country bankers and the London bankers together are able to furnish r — I have no doubt in ma- ny instances it does ; but if a manufacturer has sold his goods at six months, and learns that money is plentiful in London, and that he can have his bill discounted, he will send it to be discounted. Does not that accommodation tend to increase the business of the country manufacturer ? — Yes, no doubt of it; he goes to market again with his ready money. Can you state what it may cost to raise money by discount in the manner you have described ? — It will cost six and a hair per cent, per annum to the merchant, supposing the transac- tion to take place four times in the year, the banker five and a half per cent, per annum. Will you explain that difference ? — The merchant pays from one-eighth to one-fourth per cent, fur obtaining the bill on the banker in London; the country banker, unless he drawl upon his London banker, pays no commission, as he pays away the bill he receives, and indorses it. Have there been man :,currcd upon bills ihus ths- (182) minutes of evidence. [T. Richardson, counted? — No, there have not by us, except to a small amount indeed. Were there any losses incurred upon such bills, before the restriction upon the cash payments in the Bank ? — Yes, many more in the same proportion. Were not many losses incurred in the year 1793? — To a very large amount. How do you account for the greater proportion of losses be- fore than since the restriction of the Bank ? — I think that many of the country bankers have many losses by taking bills themselves ; but those who do their business in London by means of a broker, who understands it, have but few losses. Do you therefore assign the discretion of the agent in Lon- don to be the only cause why there have been fewer losses sus- tained since the restriction on the Bank than before it ? — Yes ; I should think it much depends upon the discretion of the agent in London. Is not the present system of discounting, as carried on by the agents in London for the country banks, a great and mutual ac- commodation to the country and London bankers ? — I think it may to the country bankers, but not to the London bankers. Is it not a great convenience to the London bankers, in times when money is in plenty, to lend on discount on the bills which the agents of the country banks carry to them ? — Yes, it is. You state, that you send long dated bills into the country (say six months to run) to be discounted ? — Yes. Is it not sometimes the practice for the country banker, to remit in payment a bill at two months upon his banker in Lon- don, that it may be there discounted, deducting of course the proportion of the discount money, namely, for the two months, the country banker receiving a small commission for such trans- action ? — Yes, it is the practice in some parts of Westmore- land, and at Manchester ; but those are transactions in which we have no concern, they are done by corresponding with the party directly. Not to a large amount ? — No, I believe not ; business of this sort was done to a great extent, when a considerable number of West India bills at from twelve to thirty-six months date were in circulation. T. Richardson.] minutes of evidence. (1B3) Can you state to the Committee the causes which periodi- cally produce an abundance or scarcity of money in London ? No, it is beyond my conception. Do you think, from the appearance of the bills which have come into your hands to be discounted, that many bills are now drawn solely for the purpose of raising money, and not for real business done ? — No, I believe a very small proportion indeed that arc not for real business, pass through my hands. Are there any other persons in London whose transactions are considerable in this line ? — Yes, several, but I believe no one house that carries on agency to the same extent we do ; I do not think they altogether carry it on to one-third of the extent we do. Are there not some who carry on similar transactions for mercantile houses in London, and obtain money on discount from London bankers ? — A great many. Can you state what may be the comparative extent to the latter class ? — I should think to a much greater extent for the merchants, than for the country bankers. Can you distinguish between those bills which are properly called bills of accommodation, and those for real mercantile transactions ? — No, I wish I could, it would be of great use to me in my business. Do not the bills drawn from the country, necessarily par- take in some measure of both characters ? — Yes, I have no doubt it is sometimes the case ; I have heard it stated that a merchant in London shall buy £. 1,000. worth of goods in the country, and that the seller shall draw for two ; but to distinguish from the bill whether such transactions are real or not, is impossible. Is not the sufficiency of the acceptor, drawer, and indorser, the principal rule by which you necessarily judge ? — No, not at all times ; there is a great influx of a particular description of paper in the market at limes, which we must avoid, let the parties be ever so good. Particular businesses get into disre- pute, the Spanish wool trade for instance. When an article is very high, both drawer, acceptor, and indorser, get into bad credit, and we are then cautious of taking such bills. Can you generally obtain as many bills founded on real (184) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. WKltmOTe transactions in commerce, as you are able to get discounted?— Yes, nine months out of the year we can. Can you obtain more of such bills than you are able to dis- count ? — Yes, particularly for the last four months. Supposing the supply of cash to increase through the in- crease of country bank notes, do you conceive that you could obtain a proportionable increase in the supply of bills founded on real transactions of commerce ? — Yes, to more than double the amount of the increase, by taking bills which have from three to six months to run. Has your business gradually increased to the great extent at which it now is ? — Yes, for about the last four or five years it has. Veneris, 30° die Mart ii, 1810. HENRY THORNTON, Esq. in the Chair. John Whitmore, Esq. the Governor, and John Pearse, Esq. the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, called in together; and Examined. DOES not the unfavourable course of exchange with fo- reign countries tend, even under the present restriction, in some degree to render its continuance and prolongation ne- cessary, in so far as that necessity may depend, on the pro- portion of specie in the coffers of the Bank to the amount of its notes in circulation ? Mr. Whitmore. — In my opinion the high price of Gold bullion abroad, does make it necessary to continue the restric- tion ; but I have already observed, that the low state of ex- change has not operated before the restriction to drain us of our guineas to any material extent. Mr. Pearse. — 'Undoubtedly it does, as far as regards the supply of the public wants with a circulating medium, as it would not be possible for the Bank to continue that supply if the Restriction Bill were removed, whilst the foreign exchanges remain so unfavourable as at present ; a profit of from ten to fifteen, to twenty per-cent. upon converting Guineas into bullion, would be too great a temptation to allow any to remain andJ.Pears^.] minutes op evidence* (185) in the Bank, as long as a bank note remained in circulation. The Bank would therefore inevitably be driven to the necessity of calling in its notes, or in other words of reducing its ad- vances on bills, &c. which would produce that distress which the Restriction Bill was passed to prevent. In case the Bank was now open, and the exchanges were as they are now, and the price of Gold also, should you be of opinion, that the Bank ought to restrain the amount of its discounts in consideration of the drain of Gold which would result from those circumstances ? Mr. Whittnme. — If the Bank experienced a drain of Gold, they would pav a very great attention to the description of persons to whom they afforded the discounts, and so far their caution would tend to diminish their total amount of discounts. When you state, that the present high price of Gold abroad would occasion a drain upon the Bank, and that it was never so high before the restriction as to occasion such a drain in any material degree ; is not the course of exchange with fo- reign countries the only criterion by which you judge of the high price of Gold abroad ? Mr. IVhitmore. — The high course of exchange upon foreign countries is not the criterion I judge from, but the notoriety that the Gold coin of this Country is bought up in order to be exported. Mr. Pearse. — The course of exchange certainly is the cri- terion. Do you believe that the refusal of the Bank to discount for persons suspected of being concerned in the unlawful traffic of melting down or exporting guineas, would in point of fact prevent such unlawful traffic, so long as the market price of Gold should continue so high above the mint price as to afford a profit on such traffic ? Mr. IVhitmore. — 1 believe our refusal to discount tends to jessen though not altogether to prevent it. Mr. Pearse. — With the best intentions on our part, I am not of opinion that such refusal can prevent it. If any period were now fixed upon, though a distant one, such for instance as one, two or three years, for the termina- tion of the restriction, should you not be of opinion, as a Bank Director, that it would become necti-sarv for the Bank (|86) minutes of evidence. [J. Whitmore gradually to diminish the amount of its notes in circulation, and to regulate the amount of its issues with a reference to the course of exchange with foreign countries ; thereby on the one hand guarding as much as possible against any sudden and general embarrassment to the circulation of the country, and on the other, preparing itself in such a manner as might be least likely to produce any derangement of our commerce, to meet the opening without any risk of a demand for specie being then made for the purpose of profit in exporting it to foreign countries ? Mr. IV kit more. — In my opinion, we could not restrain the amount of discounts on the Bank, without so materially af- fecting the trade and revenue of the oountrv, that it would be advisable to wait the period of peace, when I should hope that the question will be considered in the most ample and impartial manner ; and that as we may have good reason to expect the demand of Gold bullion on the continent would cease, and the trade of the country allow of the free importa- tion of the articles, the Bank might be enabled to resume their cash payments without inconvenience, or a prospect of their not being able to continue them. Suppose the measure to be determined upon by Parliament, of ihe opening of the Bank at a distant period, should you think that in the event of the exchanges continuing the same or nearly the same, some restriction of the Bank issues ought to take place with a view to prepare for the opening? — Pro- vided it was imperative upon us to open, I should think a re- striction of the Bank issues would be necessary, notwith- standing the fatal consequences that might arise from it to the commerce and revenue of the Country. Mr. Pearse. — In the contemplation of the removal of the Restriction Bill at any definite period, it would become neces- sary for the Bank to regulate the amount of its issues, with a reference to the course of exchange with foreign countries; but while that exchange continues unfavourable (an event as arising out of the balance of payments not within the contro or influence of the Bank) \ cannot see that any regulation within the means of the Bank, would in the event of an opening, effec- tually preclude the risk of a demand for specie being then made for the purpose of profit in exporting ijL to the Continent. citidJ. Pearse.] minutes op evidenxf. ('87) Do you mean that in the event of its being enacted that the Bank should open at a future time, you should deem it proper to restrain the Bank issues with a view to prepare tor that event, supposing the exchanges to continue unfavourable ? — I cannot say what would be my opinion in such a case ; as that opinion would then be guided by the view that might be taken by the collected sense of the whole direction, arising out of such cir- cumstances as might then prevail. Supposing the Bank paper to be diminished, as you suppose that it po -siblv might, in the contemplation of the event of the opening of the Bank, do you not conceive that such diminu- tion would tend in some decree to lower the general price of commodities r — As long as it only passes as a circulating me- dium, I think not. Do you conceive that a very considerable reduction of the amount of the circulating medium, would not tend in any de- gree to increase its relative value compared with commodities, and that a considerable increase of it would have no tendency whatever to augment the price of commodities in exchange for such circulating medium ? — It is a subject on which such a variety of opinions are entertained, I do not feel myself com- petent to give a decided answer. In your examination of the 2 1st inst. you state, that an ex- cess of country bank paper can only obtain when issued other- wise than as re ©resenting securities arising out of real transac- tions, and payable at fixed and not distant periods ; and yet, in your examination of the 23d, you slate, that this paper must alwavs circulate at par, or it would return upon the parties that issue it ; can there then be any permanent excess of country bank paper while it is so exchangeable r — In my answer of the 21st of March, I adverted to the causes which might be pro- ductive of an excess in the issues of country bank paper: in my answer of the 23d, I meant to allude to the consequences which must inevitably, m my opinion, result from the exist- ence of such an excess. It is certainly possible, were it im- portant in amount, that the country banks, by not regulating their issues on i he principle of the Bank of England, might scud forth a superabundance of their notes ; but this excess, in my opinion, would no soonet exist in any material degree, than it would be corrected by its own operation, for the holders of (b S 2) (188) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. iVkitmore such paper would immediately return it to the issuers, when they found that in consequence or" the over issue its value was reduced or likely to be reduced below par: thus, though the balance might be slightly and transiently disturbed, no consi- derable or permanent over issue could possibly take place, as from the nature of things the amount of Bank notes in circu- lation must always find its level in the public wants. Do you not believe it impossible, that the cours* of exchange should continue at its present unfavourable rate for any length of time, if the restriction of the cash payments of the Bank were removed ? Mr. W 'hit-more. — I should think it very likely to continue as it is now, if the trade of the Country and the price abroad were also to continue as they now are. Mr. Pearse. — It would or would not continue, according as the trade of the Country and its political expences would ope- rate. Then you do not believe that the facility which would be ac- quired of obtaining guineas by the removal of the restriction upon the Bank, would operate upon the rate of exchange with foreign countries ? Mr. JVIiiimore. — In whatever extent the guineas and the bullion might be exported, it would operate to the improve- ment of the exchange, like the exportation of any other com- modity. Mr. Pearse. — I concur in that opinion with the Governor. If a person abroad sends a bale of goods to this Country which cost there £.100. in specie, does he not calculate the value of the bale according to the amount he can receive for it in this Country ? Mr. fV hit mote. — I do not believe that any foreign merchant makes a calculation of profit upon a single transaction, but from the general result of that trade he may be engaged in. But if the foreigner can receive £.100. in specie for his goods when sent into this Country, would it not, independent of the charges, make the exchange even r — It the import and export of the Country were alike, the exchange would be even. If, however, he receives £.100. in Bank notes, and is under the necessity of going to market for Bullion, will he the fo- reigner not rate his goods twenty per cent, higher, the differ- end J. Pearsc.) minutes of evidenck. (i S9) ence in the price between them; and will lie not invoice his goods twenty percent, higher to his correspondent accordingly? — I cannot contemplate a trade where the invoices are made out with reference to the price of Bullion. If this were the case, what prospect should we have of a me in the price of' the exchange ? — Never having weighed the sub- ject with any reference to the price of Bullion, I am not pre- pared with an opinion how a merchant would act in such a case. Is it not the practice with the Bank to keep the issue of their notes rather below the amount which the occasions of the pub- lic would appear to require, than to allow any excess of their amount with a view to profit ? — I think I have already stated, that the Bank does not comply with the whole demand upon them Tor discounts, and that they are never induced) by a view to their own profit, to push their issues beyond what they deem consistent with the public interest. Mr. Pearse. — I agree that our practice is entirely consistent with the answer given by the Governor. taints, 2° die Apr His, 1810. WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. in the Chair. JV'rtliam Co?uugham s Esq. called in, and Examined. WHAT is the present state of the Irish exchange? — The exchange from London to Dublin is ui. Has it fluctuated since 1604 ? — Yes, very much indeed ; i; is a great deal lower than it was then. How is it in respect to foreign countries? — There is not any exchange between Ireland and foreign countries ; it is all done through England. Although the exchange between Ireland and England has be- come more favourable to Ireland, as calculated between those two countries, lias not the exchange become So far unfavour- able, as between England and foreign countries, a- to com- pensate, or nearly compensate, for the improvement ? — Cer- tainly. (190) minutes of evidence. \}V. Coning/iam. Do you not conceive, then, that a given quantity of the pre- sent circulating medium of Ireland, might exchange for about the same quantity of the circulating medium of the countries af Europe, as in the year 1804, when the Irish exchange with England was so particularly unfavourable ? — I think it would do so, or nearly so. ' It appears from your evidence before the Irish Exchange Committee, in the year 1804, that you were of opinion that the paper currency of Ireland was then "depreciated, and that this depreciation was the cause of the unfavourable state of the exchange between England and Ireland ; are you of opinion that that paper is still depreciated, and if so, to what circum- stance do you ascribe the improvement in the exchange be- tween the two Countries ? — I think it is still depreciated, but in a very inconsiderable degree compared with what it was in the year 1804 : and I am inclined to think, that the cause of the depreciation being so much less now than it was at the period alluded to is, that there is greater confidence in the paper than there was at that time ; and therefore the people take it with more freedom, and of course consider it of more value. Do you consider the paper currency of this Country as de- preciated ? — I do not. What are the grounds of that opinion you have given, that the paper of Ireland is depreciated ? — Because I know that there are two rates of exchange in passing bills upon England ; one rate for bills paid for in specie, and another rate for bills paid for in Bank of Ireland notes ; the present difference is from two and a half to three per cent, against the Bank notes. Do you mean, that when a bill upon London, which is payable in Bank of England notes, is sold in Ireland, it sells at a better price if Bank of Ireland paper is given for it than if Gold is given for it in Ireland ? — That is what I mean. Is it customary for any bills to be drawn from Ireland on London, which are directed to be payable in London in gui- neas, and not in Bank of England notes? — There is no such custom. Is it customary ever to draw bills in London upon Ireland payable in Bank of Ireland paper, and to sell those bills in JV.Coningham.') minutes of evidence. (iq?) London for guineas at one price, they being sold in London for Bank of England notes at another ? — I believe no such, practice obtains. Has the difference, which now is two or three per cent, been ever greater ? — Much greater , I have known the actual premium more than 11 per cent. Are large sums paid in Gold at the present rate of 2;- or 3 per cent, premium ? — I believe not. Does this practice prevail in many parts of Ireland ? — I >hould think it prevails chiefly in the North. U there any large quantity of guineas circulating in those narts ? — I believe very considerable. Do you know whether all the rents are paid in Gold ? — I believe not all, but the greater part are. Does much paper also circulate in those parts ? — Yes, cer- tainly? a very considerable quantity of paper. Is there a regular agio, or difference between paper and Gold in the markets in the north of Ireland ? — Yes, there is. Has not the high price of bullion, which has now subsisted for about a twelve month, led to any transmission of guineas from Ireland to foreign parts, or to the melting of guineas for the purposes of profit ? — I believe not ; and there is one proof of my opinion, the difference of the price that I have stated be- tween paper and specie, is rather less now than it has been for several years past. Would there not be a profit on the transmission, or the melting of the guineas-now circulating in the north of Ireland.' — I believe there would. Can you state whether many of those guineas are under the mint weight ? — I believe they are not ; they are very parti- cular about weighing them. Do the bankers hold any of those guineas ? — I should think not any large quantities. Are many of them sent hither ? — T think not. Has the fluctuation in the agio or discount between paper and guineas in Ireland, been exactly proportionate to the fluc- tuations in the exchange between England and Ireland ? — Yes, it has, or nearly so. Has it had no reference to the state of exchange between England and foreign countries ? — I do not think it has ; the (192) minutes of evidence. [IV* Coningham. reason is, that the people in the north of Ireland do not con- cern themselves with foreign exchanges, and their attention has never been turned to the advantages of transporting guineas into foreign countries. If a bill of exchange from London on Hamburgh will bring a higher price in Bank of England paper than it will in guineas, will you not say that the Bank of England paper is depreciated ? — Undoubtedly it is, so far as it is used in the., foreign exchange. Do you attribute the low and steady rate of exchange during these last three or four years, to the different mode that has been adopted in transmitting the funds of Government from the one country to the other ? — I think that the regular and invariable mode that has of late years been adopted of trans- mitting loans, has been the cause of keeping the exchange steady and moderate also. Did the former mode tend to render the exchange steadily unfavourable to Ireland? — I think it contributed to it con- siderably, on account of the great speculations which it pro- moted by persons in London and Dublin, who were dealers in exchange. Was not the effect of this mode rather to create great fluc- tuations within short intervals, than either steadily to improve or to depress the exchange ? — I think certainly it was. You have stated, that there is a premium of 2-y to 3 per cent, in favour of Gold, compared with Bank of Ireland notes in the north of Ireland j do you not attribute this pre- mium to the circumstance of rents being generally paid in Gold in that district of the Country ? — I think that circum- stance contributes very much to it, and another one, which is ■very material, adds to it also, that the people in the north of Ireland have been very little accustomed to paper circulation amongst them at all j and therefore, from habit, they greatly prefer specie. Are the transactions which are paid for in Gold to any great extent in the district to which you have alluded, and is not the chief amount of tranacstions discharged in Bank paper ? — I believe that in some of the countries in the north of Ireland, the greater part of the transactions are discharged in specie; but m other counties^ where the amount is much greater, it IF. Coningham.'] minutes of evidence. (193) is more hi bank notes j I mean the great trading towns, Bel- fast, and so forth. There being a premium of 2^ per cent, to three per cent. in favour of Gold compared with Bank of Ireland notes, does not the same premium prevail in favour of Lank of England notes, compared with the notes of the Bank of Ireland ? — The same difference does prevail in favour of Bank of England notes. Are not the linens of the North chiefly purchased in specie in several markets ? — They are purchased in several markets almost entirely for specie ; but I think in other markets, and the greater markets particularly, great quantities of linens are paid for in Bank notes. You have said, that the payment of rent in specie is the cause of the premium on guineas in the north of Ireland ? — It contributes to it. Do you conceive that the demand for guineas for the pur- pose of paying rent, and for purchases of linen, can materi- ally alter the real value of guineas i — I think it is the sole cause of the guineas being preferred to the Bank notes, that the Bank notes are refused on those payments. Do Bank of England notes circulate to any extent in Ire- land ? — No, very few there ; but when they go for the pur- poses of exchange, they do not continue in circulation there. Is there any quantity of Bank of England paper sent to Ire- land for the purposes of exchange? — I think not any quantity. Are not Bank of England notes more in demand in Ireland, principally for the convenience of making small payments in England, or for sale to persons whose business may require that they should speedily provide themselves with small sums in the currency of England, rather than for the adjustment of mercantile transactions between the two Countries ? — Yes, certainly. What is the present state of exchange between Belfast and London ? — f believe it is 7~ per cent, for specie, or from Qi- to 10 percent, for Bank of Ireland notes. What is the present state of exchange from Dublin on Lon- don ? — Eight per cent. To v. hat do you ascribe the unfavourable course of exchange which has now existed for several months between Ensrland < (194) minutes op evidence. [Sir F. Baring. and foreign countries ? — T believe it has chiefly arisen from an uncommonly great importation of goods into this Country during: the last twelve months : and I believe it has also been much increased by a great diminution of remittances that would have been made to this Country from different parts of Europe, on account of their imports from the United States of America, if the embargo in America had not prevented the usual shipments of goods from that Country to Europe ; and also I am inclined to think, there was a considerable di- minution of exports from this Country in consequence of the Orders in Council in England, the Decrees in France, and the American Embargo. Mercury, 4° die April'is, 1810. W I LL I A M H U S K I S S O N, Esq. in the Chair. Sir Francis Baling, Bart, called in, and Examined. ARE you aware that the exchanges with the Continent of Europe have been greatly against this Country for many months, as much as from fifteen to twenty per cent, and that the market price of Gold has been above the Mint price in nearly the same proportion ? — Certainly. Do you think the exchange would have been so very un- favourable if Gold coin had been circulating in this Country in the same manner as before the Restriction Bill ? — The cir- culation consists of paper and of bullion, and the course of exchange is the regulator of the one and the other in all quiet and current times : by quiet times, I mean of peace ; by cur- rent times, I mean war, free from restriction of every de- scription upon trade with foreign parts. During the seven years war there were no restrictions upon trade, the same operations to perform on the Continent of remitting money from hence to pay for the increased quantity of naval and military stores ; and yet in no one instance was there a want of bullion. The same was the case during the American war; through the whole of it there was no want of bullion. And therefore I think that if we could continue our payments in specie as heretofore, and there had been no restriction upon Sir F. Baring."] minutes of evidence. (195) trade, the course of exchange would not be unfavourable to the Country. I therefore consider the two great circumstances which affect the exchange to be the restrictions upon trade, and the increased circulation of the Country in paper, as pro- ductive of the scarcity of bullion. Supposing there had been no such restriction upon foreign trade as ymi have described, but that the suspension of cash payments at the Bank had continued in force, do you conceive that the increased circulation of paper to which you have ad- verted in your former answer, would have had the effect of raising the price of all commodities, and among others of bul- lion, and also of lowering the course of exchange ? — The question extends much beyend what I conceive that stated be- fore ; I think that you cannot precisely define what is the cause or causes, but that I stated the two I have mentioned as the most prominent, not that either the one or the other would produce any given effect. From what circumstances do you infer there exists a scarcity of bullion ? — From every information that I have ever received, or the opinion of any one person with whom I have conversed on the subject. In what way do you conceive that the increased circulation of paper conduces to the scarcity of bullion ? — The one is issued and substituted in the room of the other, which is withdrawn, and which cannot be commanded by the holders of paper. Would not the removal of the restrictions upon trade dimi- nish the price of bullion ? — The removal of the restrictions upon trade would produce an exportation of merchandize, and facilitate the means of importing bullion. Are you of opinion that any certain and adequate provision can be made against an occasional excess of paper circulation in any Country, and especially in a commercial Country, where that paper is not convertible into specie at the option of the holder ? — In this Country, if I may judge from experience, I should doubt it ; but if the Bank conducts itself upon the same principles at present when they do not pay specie, as they did when they were compelled to pay in specie, I should think that it might be safely left to the discretion of the Bank. What do you mean by that experience in this Country (2 C 2) (196) minutes of evidence. [Sir F. Baring. which leads yon lo doubt it? — I mean that in the year 1797, and some years previous to that, the issue of the Bank notes was not more than eleven millions sterling; 1 have seen a printed paper, which has been laid before the House, in which it is stated that the circulation at present of Bank notes ex- ceeds twenty-one millions ; I am decidedly of opinion that it is more: than can circulate with safety to the general circulation of the Country. Are you not aware that the issuing of notes under five pounds has increased materially the whole amount of notes issued ; and do you not believe that the amount of small notes should be left out of the account in comparing the present amount of notes in circulation with that existing at the period . you have alluded lo ? — The small notes are equally paper, and they add to the mass of Bank notes before in circulation ; they issue in the same manner in exchange for public or private securities : Instead of being left out in a comparative view, I fear they rather tend to increase the difficulty more than their due proportion, because they cannot be withdrawn without an issue of specie to an equal amount, and therefore stand in the front of the battle. You have stated, that you conceive an excess of paper cir- culation may be guarded against in this Country, if the Bank conducts itself under the restriction, upon the same principles which governed their issues when they were compelled to pay- in cash ; what do you conceive is the principle by which the Bank should now regulate its issues, as well as the best crite- rion by which to judge of any excess, and the best corrective of that evil ? — Before the restriction, the experience of above a century proves that the administration of the affairs of the Bank has been wise and correct; the Public have been satis- fied, the Country has flourished, and I am persuaded that the Bank of England has proved a most important invaluable in- strument in promoting its prosperity. This experience points out the only principle on which the Public can rely with con- fidence, namely, to return again to payments in specie when- ever it shall be in the power of the Bank to do so. Have not the improved methods of carrying on dealings in money, contributed very much to render a smaller quantity of circulating medium sufficient for the commerce of the Coun- Sir F. Baring.'] minutes of evidence. (197) try, than when specie formed a considerable part of it ? — [ have not sufficient practical knowledge to enable me to judge. The want of specie may produce a reduction, unless increased by other means. There arc likewise causes which I do not thoroughly understand, and which may render a smaller quan- tity of circulating medium sufficient ; but I doubt whether the last can prove an object worthy of attention. Supposing the excess of the circulation of paper to be in a degree such as to increase the price of commodities, would that increase of price produce any effect upon the foreign ex- change, until it arrived to the degree so as to check the ex- on of merchandize ? — An excess of paper circulation will no doubt affect and raise the price of the whole of the productive labour and industry of the Country. The propor- tion that is exported will participate to the extent of its value; and as the necessary consequence of high prices is a reduction 1 demand- it must operate decisively on the foreign ex- changes, unless they are supported, or the fall counteracted, by an export 01 bullion. But until the demand or exportation is checked, an increase of price will produce a beneficial effect on r Is it voui opinion that the increased capital of the Country, whether consisting; o. ; that which is commercial ard trading;, or whether consisting of that which is agricultural and belong- ing to the public revenue, does not require a proportionate increase ol the circulation of paper or specie? — If the public revenue or trade required /,'. 1 ,000. to be remitted to London formerly, and that £. 2,000. i> required at present, there must be an addition ol / .\ 1. in paper. Such country papet however (always too abundant) arises from various sources and causes, and cannot b*.. . as a general medium of cir- culation. The only general circulating medium, as a general f bullion at borne, of England notes, and which will admit of corrpct regulation, because they issue from a single source. Bank notes ;i the absence of bj i ) serve for pocket money, ?cc. in the capital, and for the inva- luable purpose of melti:. g dow n, finally, the whole produce of commerce, trade, agriculture, and public revenue into one general mass; for which purpose a comparative small sum will Berve to liquidate a very Luge one, by repeating the operation (198) minutes of evidence. [Sir F. Baring. several times in the course of a year. The whole of the public revenue is remitted to the Bank, where it liquidates itself ; the remainder passes through a general extensive circulation, re- quiring aid for its final extinction, and for which purpose I conceive that eleven millions of Bank notes is far more than sufficient. The subjects, of Government paper and the dis- count of commercial bills, form separate questions. Do you conceive that the Bank of England will effectually guard against the possibility of auy excess in the circulation of the country (as well their own as the paper of country banks) if they regulate their issues by the demand for discounts of good bills founded on real mercantile transactions, as the occa- sions of the Public may appear to require ? — It has been ascer- tained by long experience, that wherever paper has circulated under the power or influence of Government on the Continent, it has failed. The paper of the Bank of England has stood firm for above a century, and flourishes at this moment with unabated confidence. The power reposed in the Bank is great; their paper is the basis on which the best interests of the Coun- try rest ; it is the seed which serves to produce the whole of its commerce, finance, agricultural improvements, &c. &c. Such a power may remain with safety, so long as the Bank is liable to discharge their notes in specie, because that circum- stance constitutes a complete counteraction to any disposition (if it should be entertained) to increase the circulation beyond a reasonable and safe limit, and, under that circumstance, things (foreign exchanges, &c.) will find their proper level. The question is too general in speaking of good bills founded on real mercantile transactions, &c; there are many instances of clerks not worth £. 100. establishing themselves as mer- chants, and receiving (since the restriction) an accommodation from the Bank, by discounting what is called good bills to the amount (probablv) of five or £ . 10,000. ; such a demand I am inclined to consider as created by the Bank, and not arising out of a- regular course of trade, such as would exist if the restric- tion was removed. This circumstance is important, if my opi- nion, that the circulation of the Country cannot be perfectly safe until the restriction is removed, is well founded. There is no information in what manner the Bank employed the pro- duce arising from eleven millions of notes, 1 must therefore E. Wakefield.] minutes op evidence. (igq) suppose a case, and say four millions in bullion, four millions to Government, and three millions commercial hills. The cir- culation of Bank notes now amounts to twenty-one millions ; deduct from thence the bullion in its increased extent, to which it mav be supposed to amount in consequence of the restric- tion, it will still leave a much larger sum to be employed in public or private securities. Public securities may create a tem- porary difficulty and embarrassment, which can easily be re- lieved by funding. But if any embarrassment shall be produced by an excess of private securities, a reduction during the alarm is impossible, and an increase for a time will become indis- pensable, whilst the excess of both or either will contribute to prolong the period of the restriction. I consider the opinion entertained by some persons, that the Bank ought to regulate their issues by the public demand, as dangerous in the extreme, because I know by experience, that the demand for speculation can only be limited by a want of means ; and I think the Bank, would not be disposed to extend their issues beyond three- fourth parts of its present amount, if the restriction was re- moved. It may prove dangerous to impose any positive restraint on the Bank by law or otherwise, for cases may and will arise when an excess will be proper, and that it would be culpable to withhold it. But if the House shall be disposed to enter- tain an opinion, and will pronounce it distinctly, I think the Bank may be left with full power to act under their responsi- bility. Edward Wakefield, Esq. called in, and Examined. Have the goodness to state to the Committee the observations which you have made respecting the circulation of Ireland, as well in paper as in gold and silver. — The general circulation of Ireland consists of, first, the issues of the Bank of Ireland of three different descriptions, Bank notes payable to bearer on demand, Bank post bills, and dollars promising payment of six shillings Irish, have been issued to the amount of £.200,000. private bankers notes payable on demand to bearer, and private bankers post bills. The obligation of payment of ail issues of private bankers is in Bank of Ireland notes. I have observed, all private bankers, as well in the country parts of Ireland as in (200) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [E. IVukefiell. Dublin, issue a vast number of post bills ; all their issues above three pounds are at seven clays sight. Except the two new banks latelv established at Belfast, and Mr. Brownlow's bank at Lur- gan, I know of' -no country banks the paper of which is payable in Dublin ; the consequence is, that they are circulated only within a given district from the place where they are issued, and the circulating medium of that district is confined to the issue of that particular bank. Within these two or three years, the issues of all the banks are in pounds, not in guineas. I understood, all through the South of Ireland, that persons em- ployed by the Merchants of Limerick, Cor'.., and Waterford, to purchase butter of the farmers through the country oh com- mission, who are commonly called butter factors, received a commission from the different bankers, for circulating their paper. Is not that the case with the corn factors too ? — I believe it is. I observed at Ballinasloe fair, which I have attended the last two years, that it has been attended by gentlemen from four banks in the county of Galway, who have given their own notes for any bills drawn upon Dublin, at sixty-one days; and it ap- peared to be a matter of competition amongst them, who could give out the greatest quantity of their bank paper in exchange for those mils. There is an Act of Parliament, or a regulation in some way, I believe, to prevent the paymasters of regiments from circulating private paper, and they now receive from Dub- lin national £.40. Bank notes which they break in the coun- try, and pay their respective regiments with the private paper of the district in which they are. The private bankers who issue notes in Dublin, charge only five per cent, discount upon their bills, the legal interest of the country being six per cent.; the National Bank by charter are confined not to pay more than five per cent, and that is the rate they charge. An opinion ge- nerally prevails, of guineas being hoarded; I have only been able to collect a few instances : Mr. Morley Saunders, who possesses an estate in the (Queen's County, which was lately ont of lease, let it to the immediate tenants, taking from them a fine of one thousand guineas, which was paid by the tenants to him in tarnished Gold ; his rents have since been regularly paid with Bank notes. In the North I observed two prices asked for every thing, a paper price and a metallic price. I had E. IVakefield.} minutes of evidence. (201) occasion to examine there the accounts of" two agents of pro- perty belonging to gentlemen who were absentees from Ireland, who had stated to their principals, and afterwards to me, that they received nothing but guineas for their rent ; I however discovered that they supplied a shopkeeper in their neighbour- hood with a small number of guineas on the day they were to receive the half-year's rent, and that when a tenant came with Bank notes in his hand, excusing himself from the payment of guineas, saying that he had not been able to procure them, they sent him to this shopkeeper whom they had supplied with, the guineas, ordering the tenant to buy guineas of that shop- keeper, which were travelling backwards and forwards from the agent to the shopkeeper the whole day ; and thus a very small number of guineas paid a large rent ; in fact, the agent through the shopkeeper receiving 1 discount upon the Bank notes which at the end of the day he found in his desk. I saw an instance in the county of Clare, of Gold being brought out upon the arrival of a smuggling vessel, the master of which would not sell his goods for any thing but Gold, and which was paid tor in 24 hours in Gold. What was the difference between the metallic and paper price of commodities ? — Seven pence in a guinea. I am speaking of last November. Do vou mean to say, that in all the shops in Belfast and other towns in the North of Ireland they have a paper and metallic price for the articles in which they deal ? — I have observed it in al! dealings which I have witnessed in the North of Ireland, particularly in the linen market, andfthe purchase of horses. The next article of circulating medium arc unstampt dollars, I believe generally imported from Liverpool, and issued by indi- viduals ; they vary in price according to the price of silver; they passed from As. (id. to As. lie/, while I was in Ireland. I understood the price to depend upon Government buying them up for the army going abroad, or the demand from England when the East India Company's ships were sailing. The next object of circulating medium are Bank tokens ; they consist of five-penny, ten-penny, and thirty-penny pieces ; six ten- penny and one live- penny weigh a dollar ; or thirteen five-pennies, or two thirty -pennies ami one five- penny ; and they have been issued ant of /.'. 9S0,0Q0. British of the same alloy (20'2) minutes of evidence. [E. Wakefield, as dollars. 1 consider them in the nature of Exchequer hills not bearing interest, as the same Act of Parliament which au- thorised their issue, obliged the Exchequer to receive them in payment of revenue ; they are current by Act of Parliament and not by proclamation. I observed in the counties of Kerry, Clare, Cork and Limerick, a considerable circulation of what is there termed silver notes-, which are in fact promissory notes for payment of small sums ; it is directly contrary to law, they are issued without being written on stamps, and are generally done in some sort of way to evade the penalties attached to the persons who circulate them. Throughout Ireland, except in the city of Cork, English shillings arc not current. iC To the Chairman of the Bulliou Committee. i( Sir, " 41 Piccadilly, 5th April, 1810." i( Thinking that I can give to the Bullion Committee a more detailed and accurate account of the facts which have come to my knowledge, relating to the circulating medium of Ireland, in a letter, than it was possible for me to do in the conversa- tion which I had with the Committee last Wednesday, I take the liberty of addressing you upon the subject, leaving it to your judgment whether to suppress or lay this letter before them. " The limited and inadequate circulation of Ireland is aided by various expedients ; and I will endeavour to give you a list of the items which compose the circulating medium of the sister island, and the means by which transfers are effected without the intervention of that medium. u 1 . — Issues of the National Bank : — Which are partly paper and partly tokens. The paper consists of notes payable to bearer, on demand, and amounts to ; and notes payable to order seven days after sight, which amount to . The tokens are Spanish dol- lars, stamped as tokens for six shillings Irish currency, and amount to £. 200,000. " This last issue is partly a credit medium, for the dollar is worth only about 4s. 3d. or 4s. Qd. ; and the difference between this intrinsic value and the sum of six shillings, at which they are issued, is completely a credit given by the public, and rests on the same foun- dation as an issue of paper. K. Wakefield.] minutes of eyidknck. (203) " I have not been able to fill up the blanks with the amount of Bank of Ireland paper ; but a return of that amount is readily procured, if the Committee think it requisite. The total of both blanks is, I believe, about three mil lions. "2. — Issues of private Bankers: — The banking houses in Dublin, except those of Messrs. Latouche & Sir Tho- mas Newcomen 8c Co. issue notes payable to bearer as well as the country banks. "■ The issues of private bankers arc, notes payable in Bank of Ireland notes, and not in specie. " Private bankers' pest bills are likewise made pay- able in Bank of Ireland notes ; and as they require ac- ceptance ten days before they are payable, they are kept in a forced circulation. " The Lurgan, Londonderry, and two Belfast banks, make their notes payable in Dublin, as well as at their own house ; but nearly all the other private bankers make their notes only payable at the place whence they are issued. " The notes of both the Bank of Ireland and of pri- vate bankers, are now for one or more pounds ; not for a guinea or J&. 1. 2*. §d. currency, as they were formerly. " All private bankers are in Ireland compelled, bv the 29 Geo. II. cap. 16. to take out a licence, and prohibited from trading ; which has thrown the banking trade into the hands of a wealthier class of persons than it would otherwise have been in. The. prohibition against bankers trading, has de- prived them of some of their means of forcing paper into cir- culation ; but this obstacle has been more than overcome by the increased activity and use of those left. " Private bankers have, for a long time, regularly collected the specie in circulation, but on no Occasion voluntarily issue it ; which has caused guineas to dis- appear from three provinces, and heightens the pre- mium on them. The recent establishment of two banks at Belfast threatens the same consequences in ihe North. *Mt is common for private bankers to pay a eom- (« D 2) (204) minutes of evidence. [E, IVakejielJ, mission to butter-factors, corn-buyers, and other dealers, on the amount of the paper they can issue. Though the paymasters of regiments arc prohibited from this practice, and are supplied with Bank of Ire- land notes, yet these notes are exchanged for smaller ones by the country banker, and are thus withdrawn from circulation and replaced by private paper. t( At Ballinasloe Fair all payments are made in bills on Dublin at sixty-one days date ; and although the business done there is immense, the Galway bankers attend, and are ready to exchange these bills at par for their own notes. et The bank of Ireland is restrained by their charter from taking a larger discount than five percent.; and those Dublin bankers who issue paper, discount at that raic in their own notes ; but the two banking houses which do not issue paper, charge the legal rate of dis- count, which is six per cent. " Under this head of Issues of Private Banks, I wish to add, that there is in Ireland a circulation of forged notes, of which no one here can form an idea, and the amount of which it is impossible to guess, although it is known to be enormous ; indeed so large as to deserve a place in every calculation of the amount of the circulating medium of the sister island. " In the city and neighbourhood of Dublin, Bank of Ireland, and Dublin private bankers paper, consti- tutes the circulating medium. K Kilkenny, Wexford, Waterford, Youghall, Clon* mell, I'ermoy, Cork, Mallow, Limerick, Ennis, Gal- way, and Tuam, have private bankers, whose paper is the prevailing, and in most instances the entire circu- lating medium of their respective neighbourhoods. Each of these private banks have by them some quan- tity of Bank of Ireland paper, which, however, they never issue when they can avoid doing so. They all draw bills upon Dublin at thirty-one days, which is a, premium of one half per cent. ; and one cause of their only paying their notes at their own banks, is to secure this profit. E. Wakefield.] minutes op evidence. (205) « 3. — Promissory Notes, called Silver Notes — Are in cir- culation in the counties of Kerry, Limerick, Clare, and Cork, in direct violation of the law, which pro- hibits the issue of notes for small sums. But great art is used to evade the penalties to which the issuers of such notes are liable. They are drawn as if they were the wcigh-bills of corn-buyers, as I. O. U., or bearing a date previous to the Act. The amount of this specie3 of paper is inconsiderable. " 4, — Bills of Exchange — Greatly aid transfers, and supply the place of circulating medium ; especially those drawn on Dublin, which pass from hand to hand till they fall due. <' 5. — Tally Payments : — There is a considerable transfer of property and payment for labour, in various parts of Ireland, by tally between landlords and their tenants, the work of the latter being set against the rent and property of the former. "6. — Guineas: — It is a general opinion that guineas are hoarded, and there are some facts, with which I am acquainted, that seem to support it. " Mr. Morley Sanders having let an estate in the Queen's County, for a fine of one thousand guineas and an annual rent, was paid the fine in tarnished gold; but the rent, which arises annually from the produce of the soil, has invariably been paid him in paper. " In October last, a smuggling vessel at Miltown Malby, in the county of Clare, had her whole cargo, amounting in value to some hundred pound*, paid for in guineas in the course of twenty-four hours. (i A girl was tried at Trim summer assizes 1S0S, for robbing her father of 600 guineas, which he had hoarded. " I have been assured by several, that they always lay by every guinea they receive, looking upon them as a rarity ; and I am sure that in consequence many affix an ideal value to coin. One person told me he had borrowed bank notes, at an interest of twelve per cent. (206) MINTJTF.S OF EVIDENCE. [E. Wakefield, with which to pay his rent, though he had gold by him, which he would not part with. t( In that part of Ireland in which guineas still circulate, two prices arc put on every article offered for sale; and it is common to buy at the coin price and pay in paper, when the buyer pays in addition what is called trie discount, which how- ever is the premium of guineas. Cv The quantity of gold in the North of Ireland has been much over-rated. I have known the agents of absentee proprietors supply a shopkeeper with a few guineas, to sell to the tenants at a premium on the day that their rents are payable, which, on the rents being paid, were again given to the shopkeeper to resell; and this operation, to the profit of the agent and the shop- keeper and to the delusion of the public, has been re- peated with the same guineas several times in one dav. " I have not heard of this trick any where but in the North, where it is supposed guineas circulate, and the agents pretend that their employers insist on being paid their rents in gold. " The effect is extremely oppressive to the tenants, and injurious to the landlords.*' f { J. — Spanish Dollars — Are imported by individuals from Liverpool chiefly, and circulate without a stamp at an uncertain value, according to their weight and the market price of silver. f e S. — Bank Tokens— Arc issued by the Treasury to the Bank of Ireland, who issue them to the public; they are of silver, and are for five pence, ten pence, and thirty pence. The Act which makes it. an of- fence to coin them, directs them to be received at the Exchequer, and thus secures their value to the public. They were stampt Bank Tokens?, because the bank had previously issued dollars so stamped, and it was therefore deemed a less innovation. They were issued for the above sums, both, as forming change for the stampt dollar, and to confine their circulation to Ireland. These tokens are a sort of silver Exchequer JV. Irving.'] minutes of evidence. (207) bills for small sums payable without interest, and their amount is £. 95 5,000 British ; they are not current by the King's proclamation like Mint coin. ft Q. — Copper Coin — Consists of pence and halfpence. There was a new coinage of six hundred tons since the year 1S04. Thirteen of these pence represent a British shilling. ci 10. — English Mint. Silver — Is seldom seen, and not cur- rent, except in Cork and its neighbourhood ; which I apprehend arises from the frequent communication with English shipping. <( ii. — l n the King's County, Lord Charleville has issued a piece of copper about the size and weight of a penny piece, promising the payment of I3d. every Tuesday in Tullamore; which is the currency of small payments in that neighbourhood. u It would be interesting to know the amount of guineas which have passed between this Country and Ireland, from 1S01 to this time : the amount from 1797 to 1804 was given by Mr. Burroives to the Irish Exchange Committee in ISO-i. u The colliers, who used to make all their payments in gold, now pay for their coa's in bills of exchange. er cent, to British produce and manufactures exported only. Do you include West Indian articles in the articles imported? - — Yes, certainly. Do you consider the undervaluation of imported articles to be much more than fifty per cent, taking West Indian articles into the estimate? — I do ; the undervaluation would be still greater, if it were not for those articles on which the official value approaches nearer to the real value. How near to the real value do West Indian articles imported approach f — In some instances they exceed the present prices, jn others they arc rather less ; upon the whole, they may be W. Trring.] minutes of evidence. (20D) estimated at not more than fifteen to twenty per cent, over tin: official value. is Gold or silver imported or exported included in your annual Account? — Bullion or coin are not included either in the account or goods imported or exported, because there is no obligation on the part of the importers to state the quantities imported; wc therefore do not include the quantity exported in the commercial accounts of eood-. exported. Are there any other articles which can he exported or im- ported without being stated to the Custom-house ? — None, with the exception of Government stores, which do not re- quire an entry, not being subject to duty. Are not stores sent on Government account by persons con- tracting to send them, entered among the exports ? — Where they are charged with duty thev arc, but not otherwise. Are they not generally charged with duty ? — I believe a very small proportion of them are charged with duty, the dutv being only charged on such as are sent on account of indi- vidual officers. Are the stores taken on board merchantmen and men of war sailing from this Country, included in your account of exports ? — Stores for the use of die crew are not required to pass an entry, consequently the Searchers account of exports delivered over to the Inspector General cannot include any ar- ticles contained in the victualling bill for the ship's use. Are all captured vessels included among your imports, as well ship as cargo ? — All prize ships and cargoes are included, except they are applied to the use of Government. When was the official value of goods exported and imported made? — In the year 1 696, when the office of Inspector Ge- neral of Exports and Imports was established, since when there has been no alteration. You have stated, that probably considerably more than from forty-rive to fifty per cent, should be added to the official value of goods imported, in order to give the actual value, but that it is difficult to say how much ; could you furnish any tole- rable estimate of the amount of the addition to be made, in the course of a few days ? — It would be difficult to furnish a tolerably accurate account, inasmuch as the actual value upon many great articles is not easily to be supplied, there being agreat (9 i ) (-210) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \_V. Stuckc]/. variety in the qj.iaM.Vief of many or' those articles, and the proportion of the several qualities not being known at the Custom-house ; the accounts which I deliver in contain a • number of general heads, and the articles under each head are very various in their value. In the Account delivered in by you up to the 5th of January 1810, you state, that the official value of exports of British pro- duceand manufactures amounts in official value to£. 35, 107,439- and that the real value amounts to £.50,247,761 ; how do you estimate that real value from the official value? — 1 estimate the real value of goods subject to duties ad valorem, by the declarations of the exporters on oath. Have you any means of ascertaining the real value of fo- reign merchandize imported? — I have no official means of as- certaining it, or any other means that could be satisfactory to the Committee. Has your estimate of the difference between the official value and the actual value of exports being from forty-five to fifty per cent, been founded upon your actual observation of the difference between the official value and the actual value, taken from the declaration of the exporters in the course of several years, or only in the last year? — The prices of the goods have fluctuated in different years, but the difference be- tween the official value and the actual value of British produce and manufactures exported in the year 1809, appears to have been from 45 to 50 per cent. Vincent Stuckey, Esq. called in, and Examined. In what branch of trade are you concerned ? — I am con- cerned in three country banks, viz. Bristol, Btidgewater, and Langport, all in the County of Somerset. Do all those banks issue notes ? — Yes. State to the Committee the nature of their circulation. — Their circulation of course is chiefly confined to the neigh- bourhood from whence they are issued ; but we conceive they have a mere extensive circulation than many other banks, be- cause every note, of whatever value, is made payable in Lon- don as well as at the place from whence it is issued. Has the amount of the circulation of those banks much in- creased in late years ? — We have only opened the Bristol Bank V. Stlictiei/.'] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (2ll) about three years ; from that period, till within these six months, the circulation has been increasing; now it is almost stationary. The Langport Bank has been opened nearly forty years, the circulation of that has considerably increased within these last seven years. The Bridgewater Bank has been opened about seven years, and the circulation of that continued increas- ing for the first six years. It therefore appears that the circulation of those banks has considerably increased of late years ; has it been within your own observation that other banks in the same district have in- creased in their circulation in the same proportion ? — We know- but little of the increase of circulation of other banks, and we conceive ours in a considerable decree to have arisen from an increased credit, and the liberality with which we have treated our customers. Do you think that the increased circulation of your notes has tended to diminish the circulation of other paper in their vici- nity, or do you not think that other banks have also added to the amount of theirs? — It is very probable that other banks have added to the amount of their circulation ; but we con- ceive ours to have arisen, and to continue, for the reasons I have before staled. Have you the means of knowing whether there has been any material increase in the number of banks in the West of Eng- land, and the amount of the circulation of the paper of country banks in that district, during these few years last past ? — There is no doubt but a very considerable increase has taken place in the number of banks, I cannot speak so positively as to their circulation ; but although many banks have been opened in our immediate neighbourhood, we have not found our own circu- lation decreased. Is it the practice of the banks in your district to issue notes upon real security upon mortgage ? — We are not fond of lend- ing upon mortgage, and seldom do it; we generally issue our notes by discounting good bills, or by lending cash for a short period to agriculturists upon their own security, or the best that under all encumstances we might think proper. Do countrv banks find it necessary to keep a deposit of Bank of England notes in proportion to the issues of their own paper, (2 E 2 ) (•212) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [£"".' StUCheTf. and to the probable demands which may be made upon them lor the payment of that paper ? — We have hitherto kept but a small quantity of Bank of England notes, but a large propor- tion of guineas. Have you lately found any material increased demand for guineas ? — At Bristol we have found an increased demand, but very little increased at Bridgewater or Langport. Do guineas to any great extent circulate in the West of Eng- land ? — I should imagine not to any considerable extent. Do yoi> know whether Bank of England notes circulated in the country have increased or diminished since 1 797 • — 1 have no means of ascertaining that fact ; but the circulation of Bank of England notes is very small, the people in the country ge- nerally preferring the notes of country bankers, whom they conceive to be men of responsibility in the country. Is it not your interest as a banker, to check the circulation of Bank of England notes, and with that view do you not re- mit to London such Bank of England notes as you may receive beyond the amount which you may think it prudent to keep as a deposit in your coffers ? — Unquestionably. You have stated, that you have a considerable deposit of guineas ; would you give guineas in exchange for your own notes to any stranger who might require them? — We should not give them guineas for the whole of the notes, but we cer- tainly should give them some, and at this present time. Do you at present receive in the currency of your trade many payments in guineas? — At Bristol very few, at Bridgewater and Langport we frequently receive them. What is the principle by which you regulate the issue-of your notes ? — We always keep as-sets enough in London, consisting of Stock, Exchequer bills and other convertible property, suf- ficient to pay the whole of our notes in circulation. Supposing that the amount of the notes of the Bank of Eng- land were to be materially diminished., is it your opinion that the notes of country banks would take their place ? — As a mat- ter of opinion, I should imagine that in those parts of Eng- land where Bank of England notes circulate, if they were to be withdrawn their places would be immediately filled up by the notes of country banks j and I would illustrate this opinion J. II. Trillo?}.) MIXUtES OP EVIDENCE. (013) by the example of the county of Lancaster, where the notes of the Bank of England arc the chief circulation for small pay- ments. Has it been a subject upon which you have formed any opi- nion, how the circulation of paper generally throughout the kingdom has affected the nominal price of commodities ? — I have always paid some attention to the subject, and lately par- ticular attention, and it does appear to me that the increase of paper circulation has tended to increase the price of commodi- ties ; but I think that increase to have arisen chiefly from the increase of the circulation of' Bank of England paper. What different effects, in your view of the case, arise from the paper of the Bank of England and country banks ? — I think the Bank of England have been the means of giving facilities to circulation, which could not have been done by country banks to the extent it has been done by the Bank of England. Is it your opinion that a country bank regulates its issues in proportion to its deposits of Bank of England notes or specie ? — We regulate ours by the assets we have in London (as I have before stated) to pay them, without much reference to the quantity of Bank of England notes or specie which we have, although we always keep a quantity of both of the latter in our coffers to pay occasional demands made in the country. Is it your opinion that country banks generally keep any great proportion of their funds, whether consisting of Bank of England notes or specie, in the country ? — I cannot speak po- sitively as to the practice of others, 1 can only speak as to our own. Luiue, gp die Apr ills t 1810. HENRY THO R N T O N, Esq. in the Chair. John Hentnn TrUton, Esq. a Partner in the Banking- House of Barclay 8c Co., called in, and Examined. CAN you state the number of country banks in 1797, and at subsequent periods? — Jt appears from the evidence of Mr. Ellison, before the Committee of Secrecy in 1 7i>7, that there were then 230 ; in the year lbUfa, I observe there were some- (214) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J. H. Tr'lttOTl, thing more than GOO, ami it seems by the list lately published that there are now 72 1. Can you state whether many of those are different branches of the same principal bank? — I am not able to distinguish, but I apprehend it in a degree to be the case. Have you any means of judging of the amount of their cir- culation r — I can only conjecture, as I have not any means of judging of the amount of their circulation, but it is probably not an unreasonable supposition that it may amount to as much as twenty millions. On what do you found that conjecture ? — Estimating the cir- culation of each at the average amount of about £. 30,000. the total would be what I have stated ; I am aware, however, that there are several country banks which issue no notes, but many issue considerably more than that sum. Do you include Scotland in your estimate r — Yes, I do. Can you guess what proportion of their paper may consist in one and two pound notes ? — I am not able to form an opinion on that subject. Or under five pounds ? — I am not able to form an opinion as to the proportion. Do they not issue an increasing quantity of optional notes, that is, of notes payable either in London or in the country ? — I have no doubt they do. Do you conceive that the quantity oi Bank of England notes circulating in the country has been diminished, through the increase of country bank paper ? — I conceive it has. Do you think the stock of Bank of England notes, kept by country bankers, is somewhat diminished ? — I have not the knowledge of it. I should imagine that it was so, but it is only conjecture. Can you state whether the new country banks are as respect- able a class of people as the old ones r — I should consider that several of those which have lately been established consist of respectable persons. Have there been many failures among them r — I do not think there have been many, there have been some. Do you conceive that the quantity of Bank of England notes held by the London bankers, in order to effect their payments, has increased in the same degree with the amount of their pay- J.H.Trltlon.'] minutks of evidence. (-15) merits during the last few years? — It would appear to me probable, that the quantity of Bank notes held by the bankers was greater than formerly, but that it was less in proportion to the quantity of business done. Do you conceive that the number of traders in London who employ bankers has much increased ? — I should think that it was increased, and that rather considerably. Do you mean that there are fewer private individuals, both traders and others, who keep any quantity of Bank of England notes at home ? — I presume there are fewer who keep con- siderable sums at home. Do you apprehend then that the quantity of Bank of Eng- land notes employed in the metropolis by other persons than bankers is much reduced? — I should think that the quantity is not less, because of the greater diffusion of wealth gene- rally, and the diminished circulation of specie. Have there many country banks been lately established in the neighbourhood of London, where Bank of England notes antecedently circulated ? — I consider that to be the case ; that there are additional banks established in the vicinity of Lon- don is a fact, and 1 imagine that Bank of England notes have heretofore circulated there, but that those of the banks so es- tablished arc now substituted for them. Are not guineas much more seldom received in payment lately than they have been heretofore ? — Certainly. Are there not several country banks which keep accounts at your house? — Yes, there are. Are their transactions in general much increased within these few years? — I think they are considerably. Are the notes they issue, which come under your observa- tion, particularly optional notes, of much greater amount than a \'cw years ago ? — Yes, they are. Is it not the practice of the country banks to remit von bills and to draw against them r — Yes, it is. Are not such bills many of them bills which have been sent from other parts to discount ? — Many bills which are remitted to us are such as I believe have been sent to them from other parts for that purpose. Arc any such bills drawn in London upon another house in London ; — I have no doubt of it. (216) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [J.H.Triiloil. Arc vou of opinion that the issues of country notes render the facility of obtaining currency so easy, as to induce persons to borrow them for the purposes of various speculations ? — I am not prepared to give an answer to that question, but persons with whom I am connected endeavour to take such paper only as is founded on real mercantile transactions. If those issues of notes were less, are you of opinion that it would tend to lower the price of commodities ? — I think such effect is to be expected. Could the country banks issue as much paper as they now do, if they were liable to be called upon to pay in Gold as before the restriction ? — I think they certainly could not. Will vou state the grounds on which you think they could not? — I think there would not be a possibility of obtaining Gold to answer the demands to which they would be subject. Supposing the Bank to be open, would they not obtain Gold from the Bank in whatever degree they had occasion for it? — Certainly they would. Would they have any greater .difficulty in obtaining Gold than they now have of obtaining Bank of England notes, supposing a run to be made upon them ? — I apprehend there would be no other than the increased difficulty of carnage, and the expence attending it. Would they not be more liable to a run, inasmuch as persons holding their notes, in case of an alarm, would be more eager to exchange those notes for Gold than they now are to exchange them for notes of the Bank of England ? — I have no doubt that effect would take place. Supposing no alarm to take place, do you not conceive that any excess in the quantity of country bank notes which may be pushed into circulation, is now removed by an application of the holders to exchange those notes, for Bank of England notes or bills on London, in the same manner as a similar excess would be prevented by a demand for guineas or for bills on London, in the event of there being no suspension of cash payments? — I incline to think that i3 not so restrained, I conceive that there is country hank paper in circulation to a larger amount than there would be if payments were made in Gold ; I mean, for example, that if twenty million of country bank paper is now issued, and that Gold went into J> H. Tritton.~] minutes of evidence. (217) circulation, a less sum in Gold and in notes than the amount of the whole paper now in use would be found sufficient. What inducement has the holder of a country bank note to exchange that country bank note in his possession for a Bank of England note ? — I conceive that he has uo inducement except want of confidence in the country bank, unless he may bave occasion to make a payment at a distance where the notes of the bank in question are not negotiable. The Bank restriction now existing, if the notes of the Bank of England were reduced one half in amount, how -would it affect the country banks? — I do not feel prepared fully to answer that ; but it is to be inferred, I believe, that they would feci a necessity to abridge their issues. Do you know if the Bank of England notes have increased or diminished in the country considerably since the restric- tion ? — I do not know that sufficiently well to answer the question ; but I conceive that inasmuch as the same regard is not paid to the effect which an increased quantity may have on the public welfare, in the issues of private paper, it is so far at least susceptible of more inconvenience than is likely to result from those of the Bank of England, particularly as in all cases the same regard may not be had to the facility of converting into money the securities on which it has been issued. What different effects, in your view of the case, arise from the paper of the Bank of England and the country banks? — I do not feel competent to give an immediate answer to so extensive a question. Supposing that the amount of the notes of the Bank of England was to be materially diminished, is it your opinion that the notes of the country banks would take their place ? — I presume not. Supposing the issues of the Bank of England to be dimi- nished one half, what effect would that produce upon the ge- neral confidence anil credit of the country? — It would be very injurious ; and it. would be very difficult, if not impos- sible, to conduct the affairs of the metropolis, if the large notes were to be diminished in that proportion. Would that effect take place, supposing the diminished quantity of Bank notes were supplied, by a corresponding (2 r (218*) minutes of evidence. \J. Harman. quantity of Gold ? — I do suppose in a very considerable de- gree it would, because the large payments in business have not heretofore been made in Gold. Supposing the circulation of the country, whether consist- ing of paper or of Gold, to be very materially diminished, in a greater proportion even than has been staled in the former question, would not individuals concerned in trade find out some other method of carrying on their interchange, so as to remedy the inconvenience that would result from such a di- minution of circulation ? — It is a question which I have not contemplated. Jeremiah Harman, Esq. Director of the Bank of England, and General Merchant, called in, and Examined. Please to state what you conceive to be the principle by which the Bank of England regulates the extent of its issues ; do you conceive it to be their practice, for example, to dis- count bills to the extent to which they are required, supposing the bills to be good, and to appear to be for real transactions, and the party applying to make application for no more thau a reasonable amount; or do you take at all into consideration the stale of the exchanges, and in any degree diminish the total amount of discounts afforded, and consequently also the paper issues, when the exchanges are particularly unfavour- able? — One of the first objects we have in view is the solidity of the paper brought in, and although we have no precise limit, we constantly keep in view the aggregate amount, as well as the amount of every individual account. With regard to the other part of the question, though the state of the ex- changes is constantly watched, the amount of our discounts is not regulated with any reference to that circumstance. In saying that you have an eye to the total amount of the discounts, do you not mean that you have an eye to the total amount of the paper in circulation ? — Certainly, the paper in circulation under the different heads. Do you not mean then that you endeavour to keep the total amount of paper at nearly its accustomed standard, allowing for particular variations at the periods of the dividends ? — The calls for.paper necessarily vary periodically. J.Harman.] minutes of evidence. (219) Do you conceive that the diminution of the paper of the Bank would, either immediately or remotely, tend to an im- provement of the exchange ? — None whatever. Was it not the practice of the Bank, antecedently to the re- striction of the cash payments, to lessen in some degree the amount of its issues, -when a material demand for guineas was made upon it ? — It has been occasionally, and at one period in particular, according to my view of the subject, it accelerated very much the mischief which ensued. Was not the case in which that mischief resulted, the case of a run made upon the Bank for guineas, in consequence of an alarm in the Country, the exchanges not being then un- favourable ? — Certainly, at the time to which I allude there was a very great alarm in the Country, and the exchanges were above par. Do you mean then that the diminution of discounts in- creased that alarm ? — The diminution of discounts, and con- sequently of Bank notes, increased that alarm, and I think consequently increased the run. Supposing a demand to be made upon the Bank for guineas in consequence of the high price of Bullion and an unfavour- able exchange, there being nevertheless no alarm in the Coun- try, do you conceive that a limitation of the Bank paper would in like manner increase the drain ? — I think, in as much as it would occasion distress in the public, it would probably have that effect. Supposing the Bank to be now paying in cash, and the ex- changes as well as the price of Bullion to be as they now are, and consequently a drain upon the Bank for guineas to take place, would it be your opinion that the Bank ought to dimi- nish its paper or not? — I am decidedly of opinion that it would and ought to make the Bank very cautious. Do you not mean by caution, that it ought in some degree to restrain its paper, and that such restriction of the paper might tend to lessen the drain ? — That must depend very much upon circumstances. Supposing the Parliament to enact that the Bank of England should again pay in Gold at a distant period, say one, two or three years, would it be your opinion that the Bank ought to resort to the measure of restraining its issues, as a means of (2F2) (250) minutes of evidence. [J. Harmon. preparing itself to meet that event, supposing the exchanges and the price of Bullion to continue as they now are ? — I con- ceive that they must nccessarilv, if the exchanges were to con- tinue' as they now arc, which, however, I deem barely within possibility. Do you not conceive that an augmentation of the quantity of Bank of England notes tends to increase the price of com- modities, and a diminution of their quantity to reduce it? — An augmentation of the paper currency generally perhaps mav, but, as far as I have been able to consider the subject, not so greatly as is generally supposed ; I see very few sym- ptoms of it. Do you not apprehend that there is a disposition in persons keeping accounts at the Bank, to apply for a larger extent of discount than it is on the whole expedient for the Bank to grant ? — Very many do, and we treat theun accordingly. Do you not think that the sum total applied for, even though the accommodation afforded should be on the security of good bills to safe persons, might be such as to produce some excess in the quantity of the Bank issues if fully complied with ? — I think if we discount only for solid persons, and such paper as is for real bondjlde transactions, we cannot materially err. Supposing you were to afford your accommodation at four per cent, instead of five per cent, interest, the current in- terest being five per cent., would there not be danger of excess? — Perhaps so. Does it not then follow, that, provided money is now worth something more than five percent., and being in general dif- ficult to be procured at that rate, you may fall into some ex- cess by granting it at five per cent, on the principle which you have stated ? — I think not, because we should discover the superabundance very soon. What should you consider the test of that superabundance? — -Money being more plentiful in the market. What do you consider to be the causes of the unfavourable state of the exchanges with Europe and the high price of bul- lion during the last twelve or fifteen months, upon the best view that vou have been able to give to that subject ? — I must suppose that the balance of payments has been materially against this Country, and I have moreover understood that very J. liar man.] mtSutes of evidence. (-22)) high prices have been paid for Gold on the Continent for par- ticular purposes. Do you merely infer this to be the case from the state of the exchanges, or do you happen to know the fact from any do- cuments ? — I know generally that our imports have been much larger than usual, and that we have had to pay large sums to foreign countries for the maintenance of our own troops, and for various other services. Supposing the exchange to continue long and greatly unfa- vourable, should you not be disposed to refer this circumstance in some measure to an excess of paper currency, or should you assume that the balance of trade had continued during that long period unfavourable ? — I must very materially alter my opinions, before I can suppose that the exchanges will be influenced by any modifications of our paper currency. Have you ever known the exchange to fall to twelve or fif- teen per cent, in any part of Europe, in which it was com- puted in coin containing a fixed quantity of gold or silver, or in paper or bank money exchanged at a fixed a^io, eijier for such gold or silver coin, or fur gold or silver bullion of a de- finite amount ? — I really cannot from recollection answer that question. In what degree do you conceive the exchange to have been lately against this Country ? — When at the lowest it was full 17 per cent, below par. Wh.at is it now ? — I think about 10 per cent. Could the exchange have been so unfavourable as it has been for the last twelve or fifteen months, supposing the Bank to have been paying in cash ? — If there had been more Gold in the country, that would of course in so far and no further have lessened the effect, bv furnishing a means of remittance which would lessen the unfavourable balance. If the quantity of Gold now locked up was brought into circulation, would it not in such degree have tended to have benefited the exchange ? — If it was remitted, it naturally would have that effect. (222) Minutes op svii>bnc«. [W. Irving. Lunce, 16° die Aprilis, 1810. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. William Irving, Esq. Inspector General of Exports and Imports, again called in, and Examined. [Mr. Irving delivered in " An Account, shewing the Total Balance of Trade in favour of or against Great Britain, in her Commerce with all* Parts of the World, during the last Five Years." {Ace. N° 73.) IN what manner have you calculated the actual value of imports into this Country, in the paper you have now delivered in? — I consider the Account objectionable in some respects. The values are calculated at the prices in this market, of course the imports include the mercantile profits and the freights in- wards ; the exports are exclusive of the freights outwards, con- sequently the actual balance in favour of Great Britain will be much more considerable than appears upon the face of the Account. The correct principle would be, to estimate the imports at the first cost of the goods in the foreign country, adding thereto, the freights in foreign vessels, and the exports according to the real value at the port of exportation, adding the freights in British vessels as so much additional value on the goods, to be paid for by the foreign consumers. I have no means of ascertaining those particulars. Can you state the difference between the official value of imports, as given in your other Account, and the actual value of imports as now given ? — It is in the proportion of the sum of £. 59,851,352. real value, to the amount of imports as stated in my annual account of official value. It appears, by the Account now delivered in, that the ave- rage balance of trade in favour of Great Britain, during the last five years, has been something more than nine millions per annum ; how do you account for the existence of so large a balance of trade during so many successive years, and to what purposes do you consider this balance to have been ap- plicable ? — I consider that either bullion has been imported to- wards defraying the balance, or that a debt has been created W-lrving-.] minutes of evidence. (*23) from foreign countries to this Country, or partly both, to the amount of the balance, except so tar as the balance may have been cancelled by means of the foreign expenditure of Go- vernment. The maintenance of British troops abroad, and loans to foreign powers, must, as I consider, diminish ths favourable balance. Have you any information of the amount of bullion that may have been imported into this Country within the last five years? — I have none; but 1 apprehend an account might be procured of the receipts and issues of foreign coin and bullion at the Bank of England, which might afford the Committee a tolerably correct idea of the quantity retained in the Country. In your opinion has there been more bullion exported or imported ? — I believe there has been an increase in the im- port, but I cannot speak as to the amount retained in Great Britain. In the last six months of the last year 1809, do you tbink there was an excess of imports or of exports of bullion?— I should be speaking without data, having no knowledge of the quantity imported. Some bullion has been imported from Spain which has been since drawn for, and appears as an ex- port from this Country to Spain, in the Account of Bullion exported delivered in by me to the Committee. Can you state nearly the amount of bullion which has been so re-exported ? — I have no official knowledge of the amount. You have intimated an opinion, that the state of trade in the last 6ve years must have brought bullion into this Country; In what manner do you conceive that to have been effected ?— - It has been in consequence of the great extension of our com- mercial intercourse with the foreign colonies on the Continent of America, direct as well a? circuitously, through the medium of the British free ports in the West Indies. Must not the balance of trade between Ireland and all fo- reign countries, be added to the balance of England, in order to afford a just view of the total amount of the fund, which is applicable to the purpose of supplying the means of dis- charging the expences of Government in the support of our foreign military and naval establishments ? — The favourable balance on the Irish trade with foreign countries, ought ua- (224) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [IV. IrVlgg. questionably to be welded to the favourable balance of this Country. Do you know what the balance is ? — I have no knowledge of the amount of the Irish favourable balance with foreign countries. In the Account just delivered in, you have specified three articles, which are deducted from the value of the imports, namely, first the amount of fisheries, secondly the surplus of imports from British colonies, and thirdly the surplus of im- ports frmn British India, amounting together to about eight or nine millions in each year j can you state, the amount of each of those three several articles ? — The average amount of each of these heads, is as follows, viz. 1st. Fisheries £. 1,253,000 2d. Surplus of Imports from British") „ ,^„„^ Colon.es aid Plantations j 3,120,000 3d. British India - 4,217,000 £. 8,590,000 In calculating the real value of imports, have you estimated every article of which those imports are composed, according to the prices current of this Country ? — Yes, ^ have on an average of several year6. Of how many articles did they consist? — Perhaps from a thousand to twelve hundred. Supposing the same article to be of various qualities, how did you estimate the average value of the whole article? — By* consulting with some of the principal importers as to the pro- bable relative quantity of each sort. Are you confident that your calculation has been a pretty accurate one ? — I believe it to be accurate. Has the Account been carefully checked in the office? — The accuracy of the Account there can be no doubt of so far as respects calculations, it being a document prepared and re- gularly proceeding from my office j but I cannot answer for the accuracy of the prices quoted in the price current*. J. Humlle.'] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE* ' (265) JSlercurij, \B° die April is, 1S10. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Mr. John Humble called in, and Examined. IS there not an office called the Bullion-office, in the Bank ? — There is. Are vou the Clerk in that office ? — Yes. What is the business of that office ? — The business of the office is divided into two branches, and is to be considered under two heads ; the first is for the purpose of weighing and ascertaining the value of the bullion in which the Bank is con- cerned ; the other, in which individuals only are concerned. What do you mean by ascertaining the value ? — By weigh- ing, calculating the fineness according to the Assaycr's re- ports, and casting up the value according to the prices. Where do you get the prices r-^-From the Brokers' reports made to the office, either on account of the Bank or of indi- viduals. Does the Broker give you a general price, or the price of every transaction ? — The price of every transaction. What form of accounts do you keep in the office? — Every transaction which is done for the Bank is daily reported to the Cashiers, passes through the Bank books and into the Bank balances ; the weight and fineness, price and value is entered in the Bank books ; it is daily reported to the Cashiers, and passes consequently into the Bank balances. I speak now merely of the transactions which are made for the Bank only ; the transactions between individual merchants are not entered in the Bank books at all, but merely entered in wa6te or me- morandum books. Do you, for the Bank, keep an account of the bullion issued from the Bank, as well as that received ? — Yes, the bullion certainly, both gold and silver, but not the current coin. Then would your accounts shew for any one year, the total value of bullion purchased by the Bank and issued by the Bank? — Certainly, by the Bank only, but not by individuals. JIow came this office at the Bank to have anv coirnizance qf (226) ' minutes of evidence. [J. Humble, bullion transactions between individuals ? — It has been so long established that I cannot answer that question with certainty ; ft has been established upwards of 100 years. I understand it to have been instituted merely for the purpose of accommoda- tion and safety between merchant and merchant, as a place of deposit ; it used formerly to be called the Warehouse, it is only, of late years that it has been called the Bullion-office. Do you keep any account of those transactions which pass between individuals? — Only memorandums in a waste-book. The bullion is deposited generally by ship-masters, and lies in that office for the owners to whom it is consigned ; wc keep separate books for entering those deposits, one of which we call the packet-book, and the other the man-of-war book, and in those books we enter what may be called a manifest of the deposit, the name of the ship-master and the consignee, the name of the vessel by which the importation has beta made, the number of packages, and what those packages are said to contain, for we receive them only as packages. When a sale takes place, that is transacted by the Broker between the seller and buyer, he giving a contract to each ; the parties come to the office, and in their presence, the package is opened, the bullion weighed, we deliver the quantity sold to the buyer, and receive from him the price, which we deliver over to the seller : in a waste book we make a memorandum of what has thus passed. We keep only a waste book, and do not trans- fer these memorandums to any more regular account, because the whole transaction passes as between the parties, who keep their own accounts, we being merely an umpire between them. The whole of this is done by the Bank gratuitously. There is no report made to the Bank of these deposits or sales. What establishment pf Clerks is there in the Bullion-office ? —A principal and deputy and an assistant. From your situation, do you know any thing of those sales which are made for exportation ? — With respect to bar gold we do know, because the certificate of an oath before the Court of Aldermen accompanies the bars from our office as a permit. Is there more than one broker ? — Only one house, there are several partners in the firm, the house of Mocatta and Gold- Em id. J; Humble.] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE, (22?) Have they, in your opinion, any power of control over the prices ? — None in the world, I believe. Then the price is fixed entirely between the seller and the buyer? — I cannot take upon myself to say in what manner the prices are fixed, because I have nothing to do with that. Does the Bank at any time purchase bullion without the in- tervention of a broker ? — Very seldom. Can you assign any reason to the Committee, why, in so extensive a commodity as bullion, there should be only one broker employed ? — I cannot. Would not any other broker be permitted to act as broker, with respect to bullion deposited in your office ? — Not without ciders from the Court of Directors, upon application. Have any such transactions ever taken place ? — Never, to my knowledge. Arc you acquainted whether Messrs. Mocatta 8c Goldsmid at any time deal in bullion for their own account ? — I believe never, I am confident they never do. Can you state to the Committee the quantity, or nearly the quantity, of gold bullion imported, that has been deposited irt your office in the course of the last year ? — I have no concep- tion of it. Have you any accounts that will shew it ? — We can ascer- tain from our books the quantity said to be brought by the ships in the last year j but tha^ might mislead the Committee, if they take that as the amount of what had actually been imported, because there is a great deal imported which does not come to cur office. Would not your books, in the same manner, enable you to state how much gold bullion has been delivered out from your office for exportation in the last year ? — We could ascertain it with respect to the bar gold, but with respect to the foreign gold coin Only by conjecture ; there is a great deal of bar gold exported, which does not come to us. Could you not state from your books also the amount of sales of gold of all sorts for the last year ? — Probably wc might. (2 G 2) (228) minutes or evidence. [T.Richardson* Mart is, 22° die Maij, 1810. HENR Y T H ORNTON, Esq. in the Chair. Thomas Richardson, Esq. again called in, and Examined. HAVE you the means of knowing whether the hankers in London use any greater economy than formerly in respect to the quantity of notes kept in their possession ? — Yes ; I should guess that they do not keep so much by one-eighth as they did eight years ago, in proportion to the amount of payments made. To what cause do you ascribe that diminution ? — To the more ready method in which they can borrow bank notes for the day, through the means of brokers. Is it your practice to be an intermediate person for these pur- poses ?"-— Very frequently ; not unfrequently to the amount of twenty or thirty thousand pounds a day. Has- that practice increased ? — 'No doubt of it, very consi- derably. Are there any other causes to which you can ascribe the use of the very diminished quantity of notes ? — There are a great many more bills in circulation than formerly, so that a banker can at all times take a bill or bills to suit his- purposes. What you mean' is, he can thus get rid of any superfluity of cash at a short notice ? — Yes. Do you know of any alteration in the hour at which the Bank now takes from the bankers the sum daily due to them on the ground of Bank charge ? — Yes, at four o'clock. At what hour were they used to take it some years ago ? — A9 soon after nine as they coutd agree upon the sum. Is it not one consequence of that change, that the banker is able to pay the Bank in a great measure by the medium of drafts upon the Bank, which have been paid in by his customers for bills discounted by them on the same day, instead of paying the Bank in Bank of England notes ? — It certainly is a very- great saving in the use of notes to the banker. How long has this change taken place ? — I do not think mors than four or five years. T. Richardson] minutes of evidence. (23p) Do you not conceive that the increased amount of bills dis- counted by the Bank for the mercantile world, has afforded in- creased means to ihe bankers of obtaining a supply of notes at short notice, through the medium of the bills sent to the Bank to be discounted by their customers ? — Yes. Is it not now the practice at the Bank to give money for Navy Bills on all days in the week, instead of discounting them only as heretofore on the Thursday ? — Yes, they are taken every day. Do you think that, from the transactions which you carry on with bankers in London, they are enabled to lend a larger proportion of their deposits than formerly ? — Yes. Why ? — Because, from our general intercourse with them, we can borrow of one to pay the other at an hour's notice. Do you not conceive, that it is a more general custom for tradesmen and individuals to keep bankers now than some few years ago ? — Yes. Would it not naturally result from that, that in general fewer persons keep an amount of notes bv them than heretofore ? — I think people keep a smaller amount at home than formerly; but perhaps the notes may not be less, as, having no cash, they must keep notes for their daily traffic, though formerly they used to have guineas. Is any other mode of payment than Bank of England notes and specie accepted of in London ? — Drafts upon bankers. In consequence of the readv means of providing notes for all persons holding the undeniable securities necessary, do vou think ten millions of bank notes will keep afloat the same quan- tity of business as fifteen millions would have done ten years ago ? — Not quite so much perhaps ten years ago. Are you sufficiently acquainted with the banking-business to »tate the mode of their making their daily payments r — If a per- son has a sum of money at his banker's, he draws his drafts, and of course receives the notes at any moment he pleases ; but if in the course of the day he has, for instance, ,=£'.10,000. to pay, with perhaps only £. 1,000. at his banker's, he pavs in the drafts he receives that day from others, to make up the sum he requires, for which he also draws ; which draffs the bankers do not usually pay the bank notes upon, but take them " (230) minutes of evidence. [T. Richardson. to the dealing house at four o'cloek, when each banker settles the difference between him and each other banker, and the ba- lance is uniformly paid that evening in bank notes. How is the practice of settling with the bankers at the west end of the Town ? — The clerks of the City bankers, and the bankers at the west end of the Town, bring their demands ■mu- tually upon each other 3 which are always discharged on both sides in bank notes. How many bankers are there that clear their drafts at the clearing house ?-»-Forty-nve. Has the number much increased of late years ?— Only in- creased three in the last ten years. Can yon tell the average amount, or near it, of ihe transac- tions of one day at the clearing house ? — No ; but from the best conjecture, which must he a vague one, about five millions/ reckoning both received and paid. When was the system of the clearing house first establish- ed ? — About thirty-five years ago. You know the present number of country banks ? — About 720 or 730. How many were there in 1796, 1S00, 1805, and 1808 ? — • I cannot tell, but in the last two years they have increased about a hundred. Have you any data to enable you to guess the amount of promissory notes in circulation by the country bankers r — No, but I have heard it calculated at thirty millions. Can you inform the Committee if any one house circulates £. 100.000. of one and two pound notes ? — I should think not, I think that I have heard of as much as £. 70,000. Do you know whether any manufacturers issue their notes in payment to their labourers ? — Some do; only a few of those are made payable in London. Has it not been a custom for young men of inconsiderable property to buy goods for manufacturers at unusually long cre- dits, for the purposes of carrying to Saint Domingo or South America upon speculation, and for which they give J n p a y_ ment bills at from twelve to eighteen months date ? — It is the custom. How do persons receiving those bills contrive to convert C. Grant.] minutes of evidence. (931) them into money for the purposes of their own trade? — By lodging them with good houses, and drawing other bill* against them at two or three month?, and renewing them when they become due, and go on till the payment is ful- filled. Does not the public money paid ia by the tax-gatherers pre- vious to the dividends, create for the time a considerable sear- city of notes ? — Yes, there is a period prior to the dividends, in which large sums of money are paid to the Bank fro • tax-gatherers, which at such time occasions great scarcity, and is an inconvenience to the trade. Can you form any idea what would be the consequence of reducing the amount of the circulating paper in the country by refusing to discount so largely as at present ? — A more stcadv and regular price of all commodities, with more confidence m. all money transactions. Are you not of opinion that the Bank of England notes are at present more confined to the circulation of the metropolis end its neighbourhood, than thev were a few years ago ? — - They are very much so, from the country bankers substituting their owii. (-23- 1 ) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. [C. Grant. Veneris j 2 r S die Mai?', IS 10. FRANCIS HORNER, Esq. in the Chair. Charles Grant, Esq. (a Member of the House) Examined. CAN you inform the Committee, of the state of the ex- change between this Country and India for some time past? — - The East India Company have drawn no bills upon India for many years past, but they are continually drawn upon from India ; the rates of exchange of the bills drawn upon from India and China are pretty much fixed in consequence of par- ticular regulations ; those regulations with respect to India have arisen from the conditions on which money has been borrowed for the public there, optionally payable in England, at certain fixed rates of exchange ; those rates of exchange are for the sicca rupee, generally from 2s.' 6d. to 2s. 4d. per sicca rupee, according to the term of payment ; from Fort St, George the exchange is upon the pagoda, which is a Gold coin, from 7s. Sd. to 8s. 6d. according to the term of pay- ment ; from Bombay the exchange has been for the Bombay rupee, for a series of years past, at 2s. 66?. ; from China the exchange has been usually at the rate of 5s, 6d. the Spanish dollar. Are those the present rates ? — Yes j the Account I have spoken from comprehends a period of ten years, up to the year 180S-Q. Has there been no variation in the exchange fqr some years past ?— Not in bills drawn upon the Company, any further than 1 have already mentioned. Can you state whether there has been a variation on the part pf drawers and remitters not bound by the regulations you have spoken of ? — I have information upon that point from f.wo of the principal houses in London acting as agents for merchants resident in India: I find from, one of those houses^ C. Grant.'] minutes of evidence. (233) that from the year 1800 to ISO-! they passed their bills on Lon- don at 2s. 6d. per sicca rupee at six months sight, and 2s. 3d. at three months sight ; but from 1804 to 1809 their bills were pretty uniformly granted at 2s. id. at twelve months date ; and from the beginning of last year, that is, from the beginning of 1809, they fWuced their exchange to 2s. 6d. and in some instances to 2s. 5d. per sicca rupee. Another eminent house has informed me, that from the year 1800 to 1807 inclusive, they were drawn upon from Bengal at six months sight, at 2s. 6d. the sicca rupee, in 1808 they were drawn upon at 2s. id. the sicca rupee, and in 1 809 at 2s. 6d. all at the same sight. Can you state the reasons of this variation in the exchange? — I understand that these houses in India draw upon London for greater or less sums, according to the exports of goods from India ; and the exports having diminished in the two last years, which produced a diminished demand upon them for bills, they in consequence lowered the exchange : and the reason why one house drew at 2s. 8d. when the other drew at 2v. id. I understand to have arisen from the former of those houses having a much larger concern in the way of consigning goods, and drawing bills in consequence. Can you slate the comparative quantity of Silver or Bullion which has gone to India for some years past ? — I am informed by one of the houses already mentioned, that in the years 1303, 4, and 5, when there was little produce to remit back to India, the exchange was so low as Is. 9^. the current rupee, or 2s. the sicca rupee; and according as the private trade in- creased, it rose to 2s. bd. and in some instances to 2s. 6d. when the price of bullion was high : within these few months it has been as low as 2s. id. and 2s. 2d. j the present rate is from 2s. 2-i-cf. to 2s. 3\d. ; but there arc very few inclined to draw under 2s. Ad. From the other house 1 have the follow- ing table of the rates of exchange for bills from London upon Calcutta: 1800, bills at 60 days sight, Is. lit/, to 2s. the cur- rent rupee ; 1801 and 2, two shillings to 2s. id. ; 1803 and i, 2s. ; 1805, 6, 7, 6 and 9, 1*. 1 1^- to 2s. Can you state the amount of Bullion exported from London lo India, and China, for some vcars pa^t, and ftUo the amount (2H) (234.) minutes of evidence. [C. GrailU of Bullion imported into India from all parts ? — I will send the Committee the Accounts. Has the quantity-of silver contained in the sicca rupee re- mained the same during the years you have mentioned, in. quantity and fineness ? — Yes, in the sicca-mpee of which I have spoken ; hut there has been no variation of the standard of any of our Indian coins of late years. Can you state the quantity and fineness of the silver in those coins, compared with our standards here; and also what the sicca rupee, coined from bullion sent from England, costs in English money? — I will lay before the Committee the Ac- counts which state those particulars. Can you state the relative value of Gold and Silver in India, whether it has undergone any change within the years you have mentioned ? — I believe it has undergone no change within the years I have mentioned ; in China the relative value of Gold and Silver was, as late as the year 1730, about 10 to 1 ; but now it is about \6 to 1. I apprehend the change took place many years ago, from the continual accumulation of Silt in China, and probably an increased demand, and a diminished supply of Gold. What do you conceive to be the relative quantity of Gold an'l Silver in circulation in India and China? — In China, I believe, there are neither Gold nor Silver coins ; but I under- stand Silver lei be the great medium of all transactions there. In India Silver coin is also the great medium of circulation. I do not understand that Go'cl is a legal tender any where, ex- cept upon the Coast of Oommandel, in pagodas, and in a very limited way in Gold monurs at the principal British Settle- ments. Have the relative quantity of the pagoda and the sicca rupee sensibly altered within modern times ? — The proportion be- tween the star pagoda and the Avcot rupee is, according to thr Account 1 have already referred to, 13,872 of Silver to one of Gold ; but in exchange there are now about 3 Arcot rupees and ai halt given tor a pagoda : this exchange is gene- rally between the Coast of Coromandel and Bengal. Has the exchange varied much as calculated between the rupee and the pagoda of late years ? — Yes, it is rather C. Grant ] minutes of evidence. (-35) fallen, that is, less has been given for the pagoda than for Arcot rupees. Has the intrinsic value of the pagoda varied at all?— No • neither the pagod i nor the rupee. Can you state the quantity of coin issued from the Mints of Calcutta and Madras, in any given period? — 1 will furnish the Committee with an account of it. What is theexpence of sending Silver from hence to India ? — Including charges of shipping, interest, insurance, and the e.xpence of coining in the Indian mint, the sicca rupee has cost the Companv 9s. 6d. and 837 decimals, of which the charge has amounted to 2,941 ; making about 10 per cent. What is the price you have paid for dollars, in London, for a series of past vears ? [Mr. Grant delivered in two papers.] (Ace . N 03 12, 13.) Have you any idea of the quantity of silver circulated in India? — I find, by a record of about the year 1750, before we possessed Bengal, when that country was supposed to be in a flourishing state, that very year, upon the transmission of the tribute paid to the emperor of Delhi, they were left with hardly any circulating medium ; and that their circulation, next year, was filled by the Bullion which was then annually imported from Europe. In our own time, at that season of the year when the collections of the revenue run very low, there is likewise generally a scarcity of circulating medium. From these and other circumstances, I conclude with respect to Bengal, and suppose the same may be concluded with re- spect to the other parts of British India, that the quantity of circulating medium is no more than sufficient for the necessary transactions of the year, and suppose it cannot be estimated beyond the annual amount of the public revenue of all kinds paid to the Company, probably less. Can you state to the Committee what is the general state of Importations of Bullion into China ? — The Company have ceased of late years to send any Bullion there ; the chief of the Importations from abroad I take to be through the medium of the Americans, and from the Spaniards at Manilla. The Company have ceased to send Bullion, because they have in- (<2 h 2) (236) MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. \W. Thomas creased their export of goods from this country, and their Presidencies in India have increased as well as the private traders in India have increased their Importations into China^ which are available by means of bills of Exchange for the pro- vision of that part of their returning investment which their exports of this country do not purchase. Mr. William Thomas called in, and Examined. You are Inspector of the Clearing-house in Lombard-street ? — Yes. How many bankers send their clerks there every evening? — Forty-six. Can you form an average of the amount of drafts brought into the house daily, with the exception of settling days and India prompts ? — About £. 4,700,000 daily. Are not jhose drafts so brought, exchanged with each in- dividual banker for others which may be drawn upon them ? — Just so. Of course they cannot be exactly even, how are the differ- ences paid ? — By Bank notes. What average amount of Bank notes is sufficient to pay all the balances of this £. 4,700,000? — About £.220,000 in Bank notes. Upon particular days as above specified, are not the accounts much greater ? — Yes, sometimes to the amount of about £'. 500,000. And what is the amount upon the whole of those days ? — Upon the settling days at the Stock Exchange the whole amount of the drafts paid would be about 14 millions. Does it not appear to you, that a little more than one-tenth of Bank notes is sufficient to settle the whole amount of the drafts that come through the Clearing-house ? — Yes. Has there been any great increase of late years in the Clear- ing-house ? — It is a point that was never enquired into before. Has the quantity of business done at the Clearing-house been much increased of late years ? — Very considerably. W. Thomas.'] minutes op evidence. (037} How long has the system you have described existed ? The present system only about 14 months ; the system of clear- ing has been in existence about 35 years ; the 14 months is a new arrangement, but it does not at all alter the amount of Bank notes passing. Has there been any material improvement in the system of late years, so as to reduce the quantity of Bank notes neces- sary for making payments ? — Not any. APPENDIX OF ACCOUNTS. APPENDIX OF ACCOUNTS, Nos. I, II, 8c III. RETURN to several Orders of the Committee on the High Price of Gold Bullion, dated the 20th and 26th February 1810— for 1st. An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of Gold and Silver ex- ported as Merchandize, or otherwise, from the different Ports of Great Britain to Foreign Ports in each of the last ten years, to the 1st of February 1810, distinguishing Gold and Silver; distinguishing Bullion, Wrought Plate, and Coin ; and distinguishing the Ports and Places from and to which the said Exportations were made (so far as the same can be ascertained at the Custom House). 2nd. An ACCOUNT of the Export of Gold and Silver from Great Britain to Ireland, from the year 1803 to the 5th of January 1810, distinguishing Gold and Silver, and distinguishing Bullion, Wrought Plate, and Coin. 3rd. An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of Bullion or Coin, which has been seized in the two years ending the 1st February 1810, under the authority of the Statutes which regulate the Exportation of Bul- lion «nd Coin. [A] M ACCOUNTS. d CD Oz. dwtB. 526 10,426 14,052 44,622 7$ 86 250 '-14 — 1 o CD j2 i O rn > O "^ 1 O) CJ <0 | i 1 ' m OB ■ «H R ' o 2 « ' CO CD g • l ° , ° , ° ° r£ C CD W CO 1 . O . * . "5 1 I C K : 1 ' o * «t, ' -r 1 o o -" w * w b 2 J2 ° . ° .5 -< co 1 • • • K • S 1 o e» o OT ie 1st Febr 1806. w ,0,0 o % i , S , P- , ' $ | n °i *» w ' O or- o 1 s ending t] 1805. i'-i i o • Year 1804. Oz. dwts. 2,001 17 1,051 14 O^ O 00 T3 -I M U5 <* 1 o * e-» ' cfi • "-" N « Ifl ^L »' O - £ * O CD « ^ S" i o i o o 3" r- O l " . i c i ° ° 1 ° 1 .... i . i i i "6 <-> 6 CO ft- o _« ft. i. g o a "S o a 3 * -9 •J ■< 1- ACCOUNTS. [3J 2 oo a. — «oo » oo cV o r~ > 6 CD -3 o oo et cC ^ * C1 « n 1 r- - ' 2 S c? I i ■ • ■ i i i ^ O O O O'' . CI o r; 3* .1. . . £ OT — *~ 1 *- . . . Vj u» 0 H ^» i 1 g O ( o , , , O 1 ° i CO & tr O o o , © 1 , , "o 1 . . , J3 N ' o 1 ' ' •*, 1 ' ' ' "i. o ! _7_ -T cf. « cP 2 O , , o b £ ii i i i i i i i iii ^ go CI o i . 1 . . . . i i i J? 1 • ■ • 1 1 "> a CO ^ i i | . i i « i i i w | i . i S" 1 o o 04 " £ CO, , , , o o , o o 00 -3 Oi- o o . i -' '- , i i i . i -* o , . , ,, c^r-'' ,, o^c^ ,, ' o 8 o . , " ~ r»" »i , | S T3 . , . . CO " o ... ■ I ■; r~ T O „' ~ 3 CO -5 i o - . c: CM o CM CO • ttOkr-.(oi.i. lt .i. . CO o >o i -0 N O o CO < ' I to V) ' Q • ' • ' ■ to « • ... 2 . ~ . . . . . w " . oo^c. CO 00. w — i • • »o » « a • « • '• o • « i o • a s CO ■i O ... 5 * . , g .... g . . ' 00 • CO ■ • 1 c-> i 1 • 1 .}. . o O O o . _ c -5 o» o !N CO N ' ' ~i ' Q *\ ~ o . 1 1 c< 1 I • < 1 I ' 1 1 I I . . 03 04 -6 ' 1 ' ' • 8 ' , . I ' 03 s t c § • Ed t . ' ' ' . ' 3 . ' '£"2 « Lc 5 B J < J5 *o s ■ i? 5fc J >% 2 — « u « o u o " a r» 7 s a ;• •■-, t 3 a «* 9 J3 *(•- ** «« y^ W ACCOUNTS. I 2 ! I I ! I i i I ! I I I I I 5 I I C5l«- 5 '-C o -< 6 o oo?o t- of Q O -MO •"" C 1* Efi -o Ol I~ to t- I 00 o> I - 0« S 18 I o o o o o X § O Q 01 os CO - C » o" o © «o x 85 §5 - a: CD 0". >f> O 00 lis o 00 I i I I o 2 o I a 1 ^ DO C ■ ' ' 1 , O O • c o Q ■a z% SB N >o CO gg -^ i^3 g 28 . 3 2;? ^ - -o .a < J .2 j» fe ^ o CS.fl *=^c3^ p-a . ^ w J O x 'Jj D w w p£ eo o "ni m ACCOUNTS. o* CO Oz. dwts. 4 12 S3 9 46 17 CO CO CO | . , o o | o "° M Ji ..-,._ g a 2 1 1 *- ! = 2 1- 1 o , ... 1 C CO g 1 1 1 12 S| cn O CO > i "* ° • ° ** ■ ■j | | « 1 2 • «. | c , . CM M i i 5 «n is « i o . . . , . 1 o . 1 . . , rt , , g 1 1 11*1 - - - * O . , . © £ c (IIiii ow 2 " i • i j °° N — j CI 6 , . , 1 1 i s 1 H o aj o. h 3 s i o a j b • a * ij.1 s -o rt -« „ = w T - 5 c -3 n « B M^ C-^ -r rt d ■ 2 to 3 * 3 £ => o^ a J'S'^'c c *c o «£ 5 [8] ACCOUNTS. 6 CO g" ■ i i -a oo cs o — . »o ^ «N o N 'O ■* "5 S ' «0 - 0) o co 00 b CO ~A W oo :e co <3-. o >— en cc t— c; »o o . ** g «* , .04 • C CO « ■ O O K o - o ^ S £ 8 ' ■ £ " a " 5 ^ wa r- f— rt* oo cn o , - g ■? , PORTS from whence exported. u ~ 2 1 s 1 ill f -K 1 o h ACCOUNTS. M 6 33 Oz. dwts. S52 507 '-'J 7 180 o o) o o f c «o ooieui'o ii — "> i-) u~ o » co or oo .-. co 1 i~- — i rj x Co i- •*" 1 i" c. o «a i 1 1 — O. T CO u; — I o '"J — x _;_ I «5 co~ -f id -.-J uf uTcf o jr o CO A O O a* 1 as. L £ 1 1 O • <* i onp on i- ^ o -c ~. o c . r oj o ' n o «a. -o-r-t- O O t- « lO 1 i> Ci O (5 * ffl » i'. .1 " cn •* , .of co* r-t -T - ^T c~ io i- GO o «n C O O ,§ ' « p - ^ «C| 1 co 1 1 to o o jo •? o (o t- w> m o CC 01 O CO -c <0 OClt-Ol O co T ci O - m 1 C - O -r> >i l«OM rttJJ 11 I M00 ,_X CI . "5 - sfc? , 1 H ' o o O 00 , cc'of i- O CO » o o o * g g ' i ' ! '-' i ,i o« 1 v 1 ooo notno^oioi o oomo noaif o^:it -i 1 J0CO1 1 O 00 — 1- BO .". j, t^ C-l 1 >0 O « — I .-lOti-l t- V •- . ^ «" vo" C5 oo" . lO — X - ° ^ , x" Ofi 3 01 00 £ CO »; o o o o | ' o - " r- * * i *° sf i C1 i TO OO Oi^"CC"jO >o « 01 00 O Ol CO '--. -f O iior- tc m ^ o ci(oa 1 T -< p o„ t^ l-^ oo K n of , , of , t~-" 00 o lr ^ , VO O X lO w — CM V : o CO » o o o o o c > 1 ~ -5 :i x t o O t ^ 0C C -0 lO O 00 1 ,5 oo co co 1 cn c» — Ol ■") O T loo to-< o c c - f o » 1 w ci cm q^ « - a i-_t?n* , co" , ■* i-o ->" oo" R5 X 1C r-' - 1 3 CO n O V Oft O O O A T O t- O CO Ol ^ CCh- — i 3-1 — 00 o. S . - >~c.c;^ ooo.'. " x i; oi t^ en t- «o "<-* a> w> oo «» so oioaco ooot-t^noooio C CI -o O V^ 04 O C. -t- 00 cf« i-T ,00 co'co^o" , , Cl o °°- i c ^ i o CO j; 01 C «0 O O > • • ii A «n -r t — o ^ r- ~ t- — t O i i ^ • i ^ r * O C "O 3 C ■• O X O O 1- co O O "*< T 00 00 CI CI — C: '~ "i • O CO CI — O X C) -- x c. -.- — o Op N — T , Wf -r — c" , c o i 2? 01 " -. O X to o CD j o >o o 'ot-o J: -h -j< M CO O) SO ^ Ol <-l vao 00 K Ol r- — S O X O • °^ i w " i oi jo ci c c - t» OO >0 CD 01 — 'I '1 •r co a -r «5 oi ii cv so _j — oi « uj .i c , r-T . . of . , o? oo 1 II II 11 01 ' ' o o O 00 -. 1 - c ft o 00 » o c o o — o ? • (o oo *" i ■ — . --. — n r- v. eg - . 3 - -7- CC O O i i "^ i »-1 O CO X O — I 1 1 1 ~" ' 1 II f» 00 O 00 i oo ii '-. x * -- — T C >o Ci c: .of . . cf^" cot- -"cT , 1 • ' • - Cl ' • — o C 11 r - e ■ ca S |i i i i i i i i i i X £.2 "5 X Q oj to 0« £ OJC m ■ .••■Itllll3c(2l ii ' w ^ o •-- co re I.-'..- .fllisi 3 I 1. ^ *J — ..I ■ T3 ' « . u S « »8 ' u; (2 £ oo*o '6 *io S r- - ^5(3^ - < h 1 C B ] Cio] ACCOUNTS. No. II. ACCOUNT of GOLD and SILVER COTN and BULLION and WROUGHT PLATE, exported from Great Britain to Ireland. ■"oin anc Bullion. Wrought Plate. GOLD. SILVER. GOLD. SILVER. Oz. dwts. Oz. dwts- Oz. dwts Oz. dwts. Year ending 5th Jan. 1804 . 631 8 14.267 7 1805 . 22,747 - 14,329 5 1806 15 23,636 - 23,030 19 180, 10,637 16 1?08 . 132.996 - 10 103 11 1809 . 7,680 - 10,151 1810 20 412 9 No. III. ACCOUNT of BULLION or COIN, which has been seized under the Authority of the Statutes which regulate the Exportation thereof. Year ending 1st Feb. 1S09 ?} British Coin. GOLD. Value. £. ». d 81 4 11.963 14 SILVER. Va'ue £. s. d. 44 19 | Foreign Coin and Bullion. GOLD. {1,224 14 ) and ( 541 doubloons) SILVER. Oz. dwts. 8,856 Ci:stom-House, London," Sd March 181 London,"! 110. f If'iUinm Irving^ Inspector-General of Imports & Export! ACCOUNTS. ["] . Ill ©? a P § a &3| 2 5 S u. '5 « S'g S H o .s ►J — c U - £ 2 ■"*"• * ^ a* oo O T -> o ■a 7 1 o o 6 *; o <£> M go s5 q cn o o O « o o CO ^ a i- 00 n . >."} >o t-J ;- to 1 , 0«5 M >o ■?: ^ « A • .I 1 X Government Ounces, dwts. 24,991 10 J. C.Searle. C. P.Tuwry. Nich Brown. Tho. Welsh. J.Aubin. N. B. — A pm of this Coin was the residue of a sum sent by this Board to the Agent Victualler at Walcheren, and returned by him; and a part was for account of the Commissioners of the Navy, and the Value repaid to that Board. No. VI. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of Monthly Sales of GOLD and SILVER, by Private Dealers, in the Bullion Office of the Bank of England: from the 1st January 1S00,, to the 1st April 1810 5 di- stinguishing Gold from Silver, and Bars from Coin. Silver Coin. Gold Coin Bar Gold. Bar Silver. TOTAL. 1809. £. £. £. £. £. January February March 1 30,380 35,443 - 5,310 171,133 108,200 5S,286 - 2,530 169,006 92,750 15,495 - 1,190 109,435 April May June 135,130 44,749 - - 179,879 108,730 110,431 - 160 219,351 103,050 41,064 2,647 3,610 150,371 July August September 191,200 28,257 - 607 220,064 224,030 60,725 - 1 7,205 301,960 86.104 27,223 15,502 875 129,709 October 205,870 68,545 4,270 3,885 283,570 76,310 64,760 12,565 1,145 154,780 December 187,430 20,332 12,326 24,220 244,358 1810. January February 187,000 36,645 6,302 606 230,553 141,130 36,107 - - 177,237 March 126,180 34,970 7,255 4,9 IS 66,251 173,323 £. 2,104,544 683,067 60,867 2,914,729 -This Account of the Sales of Gold and Silver, con irehends Bullion brought to the Bank by private persons, as well as that brought by men of war, and Post-Office packets, as per Account herewith delivered. J. Humble. Bullion Office, Bank, 2d May, 1810. ACCOUNTS. [13] No. VII. A.N ACCOUNT of the Amount of GOLD which lias been delivered out from the Bullion Office of the Rank of England, as Sales and Purchases by Private Dealers 3 from the 1st January I8O9 to the 18th April 1 810 :— Distinguishing Bar Gold from Foreign Coin; and specifying how much Bar Gold has been delivered out as for Exportation. £. s. d. la Foreign Gold Coin - 702,991 13 7 Bar Gold - 592 8 11 Bar Gold, for Exportation - 101,934 6 9 £• 805,568 9 3 JVo/e. — The above is the amount of Gold which has passed the Bullion Office in the time ahove named, as Sales and Purchates.by Private Dealers; but which may have passed more than once, the Bullion Office having no information generally from whence the seller pro- cures his Gold. J. Fumble. Bullion Office, Bank, ad May IS 10. No. VIII. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of GOLD and SILVER deposited in the Bullion Office of the Bank of England, as having been im- ported from Abroad) from the 1st January ISOg to the 30th March 1810. Per Men of War Per Post -Office Packets I7fi,958 ■ 1,546,929 2,491,26* J. limbic. Bullion Office, Bank, y 1810. [14] ACCOUNTS. No. IX. An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of GOLD and SILVER exported by The East India Company to China and the East Indies, whether on Account of the Company or of Pkivate Persons ; from the} ear IJSS to the latest Period to which the same ran be made up : — Distinguishing the Export to China, and BULLION from Coin. EXPORT by the EAST NDIA COMPANY. Foreign GoM C« in Foreign Si'v er Coin Bullion Foreign Silver Coi n Tual Exported on .he tc India. to India. to Ir.dia. to China ts Comp<: Oz. dwts Oz. dwts. Oz. dwts. Oz. d\\ Oz dwts. 1788 - 7*3,736 . 2,417,184 2,493,920 17S9 - 76,736 1 - 1,820,736 1,897,472 1790 - 286,016 C - 2,804,352 c 3,090,368 1791 - 2,078,848 C - . 2,078,848 1792 - 592,960 - 1,464,960 2,057,920 1793 - 41,856 ( - - 41,856 1794 - 41,856 - - 41,856 1795 — — — — — 17Srt - - - 146,496 146,496 179" - 76,736 - 756,895 833,632 1798 ■ 856,645 - 1,628,896 2,485,541 1799 - 2,818,304 - 1,953,280 4,771,584 1800 . 453,440 84,706 4 445,592 983,738 4 180! . 1,992,749 5 - . 1,992.749 5 180'-' 1,594 IB 1,503,396 10 . - 1,504,991 6 isor; 530 13 2,441,011 1,665,758 2 2,068,384 6,175,683 15 1804 2,080 - 2,031,703 17 669,174 2,702,950 17 1805 . 5,883,006 7 690,846 12 749,767 10 7,323,620 9 1806 . 1,582.614 239,629 15 735,968 2,558,211 15 1807 — — — — — 1808 - - 727,866 - 727 ; 866 i6u9 ~"~ "" " " " 4,205 9 20,802.910 2 5,440,510 10 17,661,685 1C 13,909,311 11 East-India House, ") the 2d March 1810./ (Errors excepted.) Charles Carlwright, Accountant Genera!. ACCOUNTS. [15] No. IX. — continued. EXPORT by PRIVATE PERSONS. Foreign Gold Com to India. Foreign Silver Coi to India. ta Bullion to India. Oz. dwts. Foreign Silver Coin to China. Total Exported on Account of *riv. Persons. Oz. dwts Oz. d\v Oz. dwts Oz. dwts 1788 - - - 194,063 10 194 : 0C3 10 17*9 . 11,361 - 239,978 13 S51.339 13 1790 . 901,896 G - 51,175 953,071 1791 . 977 989 5 • 4::o,387 10 1,408,376 15 1792 - 757,266 - 98,696 855,962 1793 - 278.559 - 1,200 279,759 1794 - 116.580 - 25,524 H2. 113 1795 - 147.601 V - 4,19-1 151,795 1796 - 1 1 1 600 V - 32,68 1 144,281 1797 • 110.9.52 - 13,316 129.248 1793 - 753,270 - 326,860 1,080,130 1799 - 1,988,395 ,- 527 .343 2,515,743 1800 - 323.531 6 - 80,447 1 1 . 178 17 1S01 - 184,788 6 - 82,231 10 267019 16 1802 - 8S6 428 16 - 93,9 72 lu 9.0,401 12 1803 - 1 ,353,376 16 - 445,799 2 1,709,175 18 1804 - 1,124,347 3 77,691 175,968 7 1,378,006 10 1805 1,800 1,046,321 - 371,810 1,419,931 1806 . 679,149 . 190.258 869,407 1807 - 179,430 2 - 182,141 4 361,571 6 1808 - 46 923 16 - 138,982 1 185.905 17 1809 " 30,821 12 ' 25,677 56,498 12 1 ,800 12,010,573 2 77,591 3,7: ? 7,711 4 15 827,775 (, Memorandum : Iu December 1803 and January 1804 there were shipped in America 8S6,£i9 Dollars on account of the Company to Bengali In the year 1803, the Company exported 290,943 OB. lOdVis ofBuIlu n to India, on account of the Navy Board, for the purchase of Hemp: — neither fcf which Amounts are inclaJed in the ..b.ovs Account. [16] ACCOUNTS. No. X. An ACCOUNT of the Annual Exports and Imports of GOLD and SILVER COIN, or BULLION, between China and the several Settlements of the United East India Company in the East Indies, from the year 1763 to the latest Period to which the same can be made up ; distinguishing the several Settlements, and Gold from Silver. IMPORTED INTO CHINA. Season . Where from. Bullion. Gold. Silver. Silver Coins. Dollars. Rupees. 176*3 Madras Manilla - Bombay Sooloo Tellicherry Bengal Madras Bengal Sooloo Manilla - Beucoolen - Madras Bengal Madras Bombay - The Canton general beck. for this year are mislaid. Madras Bombay Oz. Oz. 3 Number. 6,924 Oz. Number. 932,760 402,000 Oz. - - 3 6,924 - - 1,334,760 - 1764 3,882 3,8S2 69,550 40,516 7,868 199,258 64.000 82,323 322,280 Mill 69,550 40,516 7,868 617,861 — 1765 - " 59,707 20,169 16,000 156,761 250,857 113,926 97,369 56,000 46,979 300,411 10,695 79,876 172,761 364,783 500,759 10,695 1766 - - " " 314,759 197,978 118,193 52,298 33,737 1,430,412 413,177 - - - - - 314,759 368,469 1,877,326 — 17G7 176S i- 7,110 124,982 3,936 136.395 1,090,400 53,784 7,110 l24,&82 3,936 1,226,795 5S,78i ACCOUNTS. [17] No. X.— Annual Exports and Imports of GOLD, ice— continued. IMPORTED INTO CHINA. Season. Where from. Bullion. Gold. Silver Silver Dollars. Doins, Rupees. 1769 None. Bombay - Madras None. Madras - Bombay - Bencoolen - Madras > None. Bombay - Bengal Bencoolen - Mad ras Madras Bengal ] )-None. i J Bencoolen - F.W. Island Oz Oz. Number. Oz. Number Oz. 1770 - - - - - - 19,833 271,031' — - - - - - I"," 1 ■ 289,299 - 1771 _ — — — — - 1772 " " 225,474 - 1773 - - 27,997 17.U9 *-" 160,000 ~"~ - - - - 45.1 16 - - 160,000 - 1774 1775 - - - - - - 1776 291,686 966,660 28,485 - - - - - - - - 1 ,286,337 - 1777 - - . 20S ; 870 & to the v alueof Ta 70,oou les 52,871 _ 177S - - - - 122,000 1 — - - 1779 - - - - . - | . . 970,056 - 17 SO 17SI 1782 1783 17S1 na-; 1786 1787 - - - - ~ 1788 - - - - 5,852 135,OOt — — — - - - - — — {continued ) [C] [18] ACCOUNTS. No. X. — Annual Exports and Imports of GOLD, &c. — continued. IMPORTED INTO CHINA. Season Where from Bullion. Gold. Silver. Silver Coins. Dollars. Rupees. 1789 1790 1791 1792 1793 1794 1795 1796 1797 1798 1799 1800 1801 1802 1803 1804 1805 1806 1807 1808 ■ None. Bombay - 1 )-None. Oz. Number. Oz. Number EXPORTED FROM CHINA. Season Where to. Bengal Molucca • P. W. Island Bengal Bengal Bullion. Dollars. Rupees. 1801 - - 500,000 36,636 15,000 - - 536,636 15,000 1807 to the value 1 of Tales / 162,336 38,903 3,165,000 - 162,336 3,203,903 - 1808 - - 1,870,000 - Memorandum. — The preceding Account comprehends the Imports into and Exports from Canton only on the account of the East India Company, as there are no records received from China, by which the transactions of Individuals can be ascertained. But as the Reports of the Reporters of External Commerce at Bengal, Fort Saint George, and Bombay, state the Imports into and Exports from those peaces respectively to and from China, on account of Individuals, the particulars are stated as follow, so far as the Reports of those Officers have been received at this House. ACCOUNTS. [19] No. X. — Annual Exports and Imports of GOLD, &c. — continued. BENGAL. IMPORTED from CHINA. EXPORTED to CHINA. GOLD. SILVER. Dollars. Value in Sicca Ru. Value in Sicca Ru. From 1st June 1795") toSlit May 1796 j 31,000 - - - - 1796-7 16,00:1 30,978 — — — 1797-8 37,936 93,145 7,791 — < — 1798-9 8,000 278,696 — — — 1799-1800 180,363 138,800 8,2 16 — — 1800-1 13,600 376,698 2,000 — — 1801-2 290,443 367,492 34,965 1 reasure not distinguished. raL Sic. Ru. 7,872 1802-3 424,446 377,309 10 i,000 ditto. 42,000 1803-4 582,249 417,986 840 — — 1804-5 1,650,912 495,778 69,047 — — 1805-6 776,236 188,872 — — — 1806-7 949,090| 110,165 61,753 — — Fort S r. George. IMPORTED from CHINA. Exported to China. From 1st January \o\ 31st Dec. 1802 J - Do. 1S03 - Do. ISO! - Do. 1805 - Do. 1806 Dollars. Rupees. No. Bullion. Value in Sicca Rupees. Gold Bullion. Value in Sicca Ru. 1078,382 1,391 3.25C 4,118 143.000 Gold Mohurs No. Dollars No. Ru- pees. No. 46,164 44,327 140,000 114,480 176 4:, 5 612 433,004 8,899 4,000 6,532 4,244 BOMBAY. From May 1st, 1801 ) to April 30, 1802$ 1802-3 1803-4 1804-5 1805-6 IMPORTED from CHINA. Exported to China. Treasure not distinguished. alue Ru. 505,032 603,954 109,626 4260,000 6006,1 IS not distinguished. value Rup. 20,937 9,000 In Account, tiie Tale is taken at Gs. 8rf. and the Rupee at 2*. 6c/. East-India House, the 14th March 1810. (Errors excepted.) Charles Car(:c:ig!.t, Accountant General [C2] O) ACCOUNTS. No. XI. BULLION imported into the Company's several Presidencies in In- dia, in the following Years: — Extracted from The Reports of External Commerce, which exclude the Company's own Imports. 1802-3 Sic.Ru.2,52,5p,S05 1803-4 - 2,13,23,047 1804-5 - 2,91,79,080 1S05-6 Sic. Ru. 3,38,66,483 1806-7 - 3,11,94,786 1807-8 - 2,67,59,192 INDIA. CHINA. £. 599,056 - £■ — 435,766 — 1,138,313 - 568,S06 599,815 - 188,082 1,743,473 - 201,5(30 499,503 - 200,505 None Exported. — 279,31/ ~ None Exported. — Note. — The Accounts from Madras are not complete for the Year 1807-8, owing to some of the Returns not having been received. The Reports of External Commerce for alt India, only commence with the Year 1802-3. COST of BULLION exported by the Company to India and China, in the following Years : 1800-1 1801-2 1802-3 ] 803-4 1 804-5 1805-6 I8O6-7 1807-8 I8O8-9 I 1809-10$ No. XII. Comparative VALUE of GOLD and SILVER at the several Presi- dencies in India, and at China. Bengal. According to the Standard of the Bengal Coin, the Gold Mohur contains of pure Gold, troy grains 189,402; which compared with £. s. d. the standard English* Guinea, ©r21 shillings, the value of the Gold Mohur is - - 1 13 6263 The Sicca Rupee contains of pure Silver, troy grains 175,927; which compared with the standard Shilling, the value is - - V 2 566 And at the average pi ice of Dollars - - '£ O 2 2 937 The proportion between the Mohur and the Sicca is 14,861 of Silver to l of Gold. Madras. According to the standard for the Madras Coin, the Star Pagoda contains of pure Gold, troy grains 42, which compared as above, the value is ----- i 075 soi * That is, the Mint price of £. S. 17. lOf. per oz. tor standard Gold of 22 carats fine) and 5s. 2d. per oz. for standard Silver of 222 dwts. fine. (continued) c- 5. d. 1 1 1 247 2 1 490 ACCOUNTS. [21] No. XII. — continued. The Arcot Rupee contains of pure Silver, troy grs. 1 66,477, nnd compared as above, the value is And at the average price of Dollars - The proportion between the Star Pagoda and the Arcot Rupee is 13,S/2 of Silver to 1 of Gold. Bombay. According to the standard for the Bombay Coin, the Gold Rupee contains of pure Gold, troy grains 1 64,74, which compared as above, the value is - - - - 1 9 1 20a The Silver Rupee contains of fine Silver, troy is. 164,74, and compared as above, the valueis 5 1 ] 1 0Q4 - (0 And at the average price of Dollars - - (0 2 1224 The proportion between the Gold and Silver Ru- pees is 15 of Silver to 1 of Gold. China. In the China Diaries of 1505-6 and 1806-7, the price of Gold is stated at 16 tales of silver for 1 tale of Gold of 100 fonch. or pure Gold ; if the 16 tales of silver is so much of sycee, or pure silver, then the proportion is id of silver to 1 of Gold; but as it appears that in the years 1805-6 and ISO6-7, some Gold was imported from China into Bengal and Fort St. George, where the proportions are only near 15 to 1 at the former, and near 14 to 1 at the latter place, it would seem that 16 tale weight of sycee silver, or 16 to 1, was not in- tended as the price of Gold in the China market. If it should be considered that 1 tale weight, or 1,208 oz. troy of pure Gold, sold for the equivalent of 16 tales in new dollars of the average weight of 1 ,000 dollars to 866 oz., and of the average fineness of 7\ dwts. worse than English standard; in this case the proportion is 14,237 of silver to 1 of Gold. (22 oz., 222 dwts.) But if the tale weight of Gold is now considered in the proportion of 100 new dollars to 72 tales, as it formerly was, at 100 old dollars to 72 tales, the weight of the tale will now be 1,203 oz. troy, and the proportion will be 14,296 of silver to 1 of Gold. Gold coined in the Calcutta Mint, in Eight Years, Sicca Rupees, from 170Q- 1800 to ls(jii-7 Value - - 144,47,108 Silver - - - - Ditto - - - - Value - - 584,70,80 9 Total --- - 729,17,(7i7 Average per Annum - - S* R" 91,14,730 Gold coined in the Madras Mint, in Seven Years, from 1800-1801 to ISO6-7 - Value - Arcot II s 86,84,143 Silver - - - - Ditto 359,6.;, 2. i:-, Total .... 446,47,441 Average per Annum - Areot R 5 63,78,206 or - Sicca R« 60,2/,425 Total Average per Annum ot Gold and Silver) v , ~7lT7Z~r coined in the Mints at Calcutta and Madias. \ " Or nearly £. 2,000,000 per Annum. "(cov [22] ACCOUNTS. No. XII. — continued. In the five years from 1 802-3 to 1S06-7, according to the Return or' the Calcutta Mint, 1 Sicca Rupee coined from s. d. declf. dollars, sent from Europe, cost the Company, exclusive of charges ------------- 23 89ff Charges in England, Shipping * per cent. - - 130 Interest, 12 months, a' 5 per cent. - - - - 1,401 Risk 1 \ per cent. 420 l,p60 Expense of coinage to the Company in the Calcutta Mint, on the average of the above five years - 98 1 2 941 Total cost and expense of one Sicca Rupee - - - - 2 6 837 Memorandum. — The value of the Gold coins of the Indian Mints is not calculated at the average price of Gold in the London market, because such average is not yet ascertained. The present price of standar'd Gold is £. 4. 6. per ounce. Only one instance of the value of Gold and Silver in China, in the year 1730, is given above, be- cause there has not been time to complete the investigation for other years, which has only been begun this morning. The coinage of the Bombay Mint is not at present ascertained, but it is supposed to bear a very small proportion to the coinages of the Bengal and Madras Mints. The coinages of the subordinate and country Mints are not known. No. XIII.— AVERAGE PRICE paid by the Company for new DOLLARS, from 1791. 5. d. s. d. 1791 - - perOz. 5 1| 1802-3 - - perOz. 5 5 \ \ 7 7qV°\ N ° ne P urchased ' 1803-4 - - - - 56 1804-5 - - - - 5 3i 1797 - - - " 5 1 1805-6 - - - - 5 51 1798 - - - - 5 1J 1806-7 - - - - 5 5 1799 - - - - 5 3\ 1807-8 5/6forstand. Silv. 5 4 1800-1 - - - - 5 7-1 I8O8-9 - - - - 5 £ 1801-2 - * - - 59 1809-10. — None purchased. No. XIV. ACCOUNT of the Amount in Ounces of Sales of Silver Pieces of Eight and Silver Ingots made by the Governor and Com- pany of the Bank of England ; from the 1st of January 1797, to the 1st of March 1810 inclusive. Ounces. Silver Pieces of Eight 58,916,937. Silver Ingots 12,954,291. Eank of England, ^ 1.2 thMarch 1810. J William Dawes, Ch. Ace 4 . ACCOUNTS. [23] No.XV.— An ACCOUNT of the Annual Amount in Ounces of SaJes of Silver Pieces of Eight and Silver Ingots, made by the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, from the l^t of March 1797 to the 1st of March 1S10, inclusive. Pieces of Eiglit. Ingots. oz. dwts. 07. dwts. From 1st March 1797, to 1st March 17ns 105 — . 1st March 1799 1 : 1 S 4-16 10 . 1st March 1 800 7,409,81-1 13 2,686,697 7 ... 1st March L801 80,875 14 ... 1st Marcl 2,751 -1 — ... 1st March 2,345,147 is — . 1st March 1804 1/;96,813 5 . 1st March 181 5 ,603 5 2,785,657 l~ ... Isj ,:io 3 24,688 7 . Ut March 1807 5,27!. 302,170 4 . IstMarcl 1,257 ' 166,540 5 . 1st Marcl (4 15 4,005,5.50 8 - 1st March 18.0 1,748,793 2 1,204,8* 8 58,786,737 12,954,291 From 1st January to 28th February 1797 - - 130,200 Account deliv ?red of the gross amount of Sales from 1st January 1797 to 1st March 1810. Bank of England, lGth March IS 10. in, Daces, Ch. Ace No. XVI.— An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of Gold and Silver stamped and marked -at the Assay Office at Goldsmiths' Hall, in the City of London, in each of the last Tew Years (ending on the 28th of May I6O9, on which day the Working Year ends, and the mark* are changed) : — Distinguishing the several Standards of Gold. Old Standard Gold. New Standard Gold Silver. In the Year ending on lbs. OZ. dwts p S. lbs. oz. dwts. prs lbsi <:/. dwts. 28th Mav 1800 601 8 15 19 9 11 9 2 10 28th Mav 1801 487 0' 1 (> 904 10 19 5 101,029 15 28th May 1802 542 3 17 2 !•: 1 10 1 1 2 108,726 1 15 28th May 1803 596 11 10 13 1,015 3 18 5 i 19,139 11 \G 28th May 1801 191 8 13 733 :. 11 :; - 2 1 28th Mav 1805 582 1 6 19 923 6 3 4 : 9 28th May 1806 8 11 6 1,158 1 1 19 ii7,.;.;*; 7 15 28th May 1807 537 14 7 1 508 3 10 1-, 122,450 5 1 28th May 1808 551 9 19 23 1,811 7 <■ • .; (i 28th Ma 579 11 11 •J 1,677 " 6 4 126,961 10 to the end of (^ January 1 810 f 411 4 12 3 1,258 6 17 10 91,859 1 15 The Goldsmiths' Company in London have not any means of ascertaining the quantities of Gold or bilver stamped and marked at .my As.-ay Office in Grc.t Britain, other than the 4 'Hall. Lane, I .l.ru.iry 18 If). [24] ACCOUNTS. C3 .-5 < O £ ? | si 5* m 03 *-> o°^ O o ^ -Ci 4J C o 8.SPS*. ' r I ^ooBOOcDccooao to I „• •€ ~ ""* "" ' *^eOCOTt-OCD QOQD-r 00 -i M O M IO 00 . tt ts. CO CM <# CO O) C?0 — ro 3 t t-C «? to ■■* X) -f cs -T SN-OtOO O IO CM — <>» i^ oo okx ~. Oi O — fco~ -££ t, ci io CO 'i' O - O rt f^Tji M ^ „ ^ _ ? n O co -* Co -t «o co O K <>. O Co CO CO wu ■•: — — -• *~«* «-- ^- , - , !-o © -tf co co co qo ~ "*> -^t >o irT ifr o «} in to u O C O be x 'O C O co O P N O rt O ClO)H ONOD"t -0 f Ul O 05 « CM 'O CM 'O CM t^ OVO O r O O O 'O O CO CD CO © bo « «5 CO O •a O J^co CM — 00 ° «" « to -tf — CM © -h CO CM CO © Tf tfj OYCM co £> 'n m O CM 00 -i O CO CO m co o 'C ") n n i»rt -i CM h c i to O O n C — CM CM CM CO © — O -> © 00 ! uOCOOOOCOCCCOOCO M i— . r-i r- 1 ■— 1 SOhcoO'OCO-COCO "U "" '""' > N CO CO O O © K CO M N ~ »C CM — — »0 — < "* CO CM 1* . Ol"t OC,0 0«©«0'0 n _|T co" _T exo io"co co -T o> "* CO CO -t CT) IO C MCOON co oo o. Co co p O O « - _<-a'-j , -» t -i>->»->>-* , -»>-> , -> J3 jC J3 _C -C .d J3 J3 J3 J3 1010»0<0'0«0>0«0«0'0 ACCOUNTS. [25] Q 3 36 O MM •8 r^ oo CT> | | co o>co ph • O »C >0 (S-h — (N ^ co C CO 'H o>co -« >ri nO •* One O© n oo aN OC0'-<-iMCSCN© © CO ..-tOHTfOOlNiOKf) • CO *v. iO CN 0> O 05 © M M iiCS-Ot^^TTfcOCN-^rt 1 3 < 8 > 1 c 6 "^ CO© 00 NO CO « -h h ^> ^O^OOi^CiC'+Cv-HCO O'O N- o,^ io co an .;CO'OMN©NOM"N S) w Q "V co_ -<* O CN «N ■* «c rf tOiOCo'-^Co't-CtCt^CO Year ended 5th January 1801 5th January 1802 5 in January 1803 5 th January 1804 5th January 1805 5th January 1806 5 th January 1S07 5th January 1808 />th January I8O9 5th January 1810 * B' •3.5 x 2H S o c j> ^ JC C/5 111 5 fcO '&«« •£ M-S c2 > S 2 fc o- * js a. o > Co] [26] ACCOUNTS. No. xvni. An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of Gold and Silver Wroi/ght Plate assayed and marked at the Assay Office, Dublin ; commencing 5th Ja- nuary 1808, and ending 2d January 1810. Oz. dwts. Gold, at the Standard of 22 Carats - 6 17 Do . - Do - 18 Carats - 529 1 Silver - - 236,440 7 Tho. Nut tail, Assay Master. No. XIX. An ACCOUNT of all GOLD imported into His Majesty's Mint, and the Amount of Gold Monies Coined, from the year 1797 inclusive, to the 1st day of March IS 10; distinguishing the Ingots received in each year pro- duced from Guineas and from Foreign Gold, with the Value of each. Impor- tations in each Year. GOLD in Ingo GUINEAS. ts produced from FOREIGN GOLD. Amount of Gold Monies Weight. Value. Weight. Value. each Year. 1797 8 9 J 800 1 2 3 4 1805 6 7 8 9 i Mar. 1810 lb. oz.dwt.gr. 2,321 5 9 12 6.258 2 14 6 14,403 5 13 19 £. s. d. 108,470 10 302,405 12 673,002 lb. oz.dwt.gr. 53,213 8 8 22 58,179 3 5,818 3 8 £. s. d. 2,486,410 6 2,718,425 9 271,846 12 8 £. s. d. 2,000,297 5 O 2,967,504 15 O 449,961 15 189,837 2 6 450,240 2 12,838 8 17 22 13,101 17 4 599,890 3 8 612,287 14 9 3,532 6 1 7 165,056 6 2 596,444 12 6 718,396 17 » 54,615 15 405,105 15 371,744 2 298,946 11 i '■ '■ - - - 8,778 4 5 11 4,981 7 12 6 3,009 1 18 22 9,223 1 16 4,024 9 15 8 410,168 13 8 232,766 17 2 140,603 2 430,944 17 4 188,059 8 6 48,925 11 12 15 2,296,056 5 150,760 5 7 4 7,044,282 11 6 8,960,113 11 C. F. Molt, Dep. Warden. Jus. IV. Morrison, Dep. Mast. & W. J. B. Davis, Dep. Compt. 2v"o ©» 10 C4 « •< toe a, feo Cl X o* t~ S 1|4 M •0 o CO -1 g.s^ N Q o» - o o : c O r- « 00 lO o "" "• •-1 t- >o ^ C4 C» _sp 01 c* 1 -a o a. E 1 01 01 o 04 01 ° « ri § * g{ O . © . fill fc>'3 s '5 C II 3 «- •§8 £8 „ C/3 u «? ^ htNumb iecesund 2 curren r eiglit of wts. 8 gi CO "5. B _c |9 g'S 6b u § vy N Piece i curt 'eight ivts. 1 00 5< "1 aj <*_.c ? "O — — ' lo- u] c _c C '-O a. ci -i ac X _ ~ O 'O «! O) O M M •" -• ™ 01 ™ " ■a g I " CO t< «* "# « * ; rf Tt< rj< « C4 ■* 2 .£* %3 " « '| go .o oi C4C4040IO»04C1C'»C401 NWClfl(MNM!M(!l!Jl CO N 04 Ol Ol « o 88 S 8 | r s : c 88 , umber Pieces taken t weigh. ! •id « -r >o (p - DO ci O I Z Z JZ CI ' £ .5 , c o a. ,2 k ■i ."5><» 3 HI ■p. 2 J F '5 ■3 B < 8* | Si 2 c « o u -- G < 5 0-^3 E : . ■j G _ u w S | 1 2 fl [281 ACCOUNTS. ^ ~-j "f CO 1> O co 1- [ » s CU *S co co 01 t> 1- O ,j.-0 CM - O O I- o U «j CO CO CO CM r~ c> bo,^ 1 CO — g£ - o "re U bV~2 - CO co — ' H 04 B 3 -B • «J u W £ <° "* o» •* CM l> •u N O O O O O i> o» 1- t~ O) CT> l- 0» CM CM CM CM CM CM CM CM 0) Ol CM 1 ' <~ u u. ._, 13 O a, _3 ' u «-B M w «/ M ft, a 3 MS it . a a £ coO Ma! ioi2 ila| l CO 6° re CO 3 CO " Light Number ofPiecesunder the current Weight of 5 dwts. 8 gr. CO CO co t- CO CO co' 5 * ^8 c c umb. s of rent tof 8gr. (8 s 8 ZSS£.- «."& CM CM ■* M*e« ^'0* ^8 M"« "§ CO O JO" U5 • - .- feoO CO 10 O CO >C "3 .2 In t~ t- t- r~ <* E bo -o — < £ jS* Ol 01 01 o» OJ j§ 0* N« M CM CM umber of Pieces taken to weigh. OOO OOO 1 . WWW ■J CM CO 6 8 CM 1 -^ 8 CO Z £ 1 * O 4) 1 O ^ "■ re . pub c 8^ ' •- re , _ co re d) bo < O CO u ,Oo 1 CO* U. w CO ACCOUNTS. [29] No XXI PRODUCE of the Quinto do Ouro, collected in the Captain Gene- ralship of Minas Geraes and Minas Novas of Biasil, from 1st of August 1751 to 31st December 1794. From l Arrobas I Autj. 1, l75l,toJulySl,l752 [arcos. nzas 1 itavas Liraos. Q uiutos. 34 6 1 1 _ 1752 — 1753 io- 50 6 7 25 1 — 1753 — 1754 ns 29 4 7 39 3 _ 1754 _ 175'; 117 57 5 — 1755 — 1756 114 .",," 5 5 66 _ 1756 __ 175' 110 5:i 5 43 1 — 1757 — 1758 89 7 1 6 3 3 __ I75 8 — 1759 116 59 3 59 4 _ 1759 — 1760 97 59 1 4 16 Of _ 1760 — 1761 HI 36 1 5 19 1 _ i7Hi _ 1762 102 33 3 68 1 _ 176-2 — 1763 83 7 2 49 1 _ 1763 — 1764 99 55 2 19 4 _' 1764 — 1765 93 49 5 2 43 4 __ 1765 — 1766 85 49 2 7 67 2 — 1766, to Dec. 3 1, 1766 46 53 5 1 62 Jau. 1, 1767 — 1767 87 33 3 7 37 __ 1768 — 1768 84 63 6 46 4 _ 1769 _- 1769 84 33 1 57 — 1770 — 1770 92 35 6 7 61 <$ _ 1771 — 177) 81 2 7 7 23 2 _ 1772 — 1772 82 17 2 7 65 4 — 1773 — 1773 78 23 3 6 13 _ 1774 — 1774 75 37 3 6 38 2 „ 1775 — 1775 74 60 1 43 2 _ 1776 — 1776 76 23 2 6 6 4 _ 1777 — 1777 70 7 2 2 35 1 _ 1778 — 1778 72 51 5 4 71 _ 1779 — 1779 71 46 2 6 13 _ 1780 — 1780 65 49 6 5 46 o _ 1781 — 1781 72 12 5 5 68 — 1782 — 1885 65 36 7 2 14 _ 1783 — 178:1 62 44 o 6 56 _ 1784 _ 1784 58 6 5 5 4 _ 1785 — 1785 54 50 5 5 4 _ 1786 _ 178( 49 29 7 1 19 __ 1787 — 1787 43 1 I 4 6 15 _ 1788 — 178f 41 28 2 2 IS __ 1789 _ 178< 44 20 2 7 39 _ 1790 — 179< 41 39 1 4 59 _ 1791 — 179 41 23 6 8 _ 1792 — 179' 2 45 34 4 •2 50 _ 1793 — 17" J 48 6 5 2 33 _- 1794 — 179 46 44 6 50 Amount of the Quinto do ' Ouro from 1752 to 1762 inclusive - 11 years _ 1 1,145 10 6 2 22 from 1763 to 1773 11 years 1,001 35 2 4 7 from 1774 to 1784 11 years 765 61 6 4 22 from 1785 to 1794 10 years 456 32 3 5 2 Ann, average fr. 1752 to 176 2 104 7 5 2 20 1763 to 177 ! 90 3 1 5 33 . 1774 to \1i> ■i 69 20 4 1 60 1785 to 17f 45 1 41 5 22 The preceding statement, as Car at 1 777, was copied from* manuscript in the possession of the Portuguese Government, entitled raogoverno da Capitaniade Minas Geraes por Joze Joio Teixeira Dezembargador >:.. do Potlo," 1781. The statement from 1777 to 17i*4 was taken from mother manuscript, also in the possession of the Portuguese Government, called " R n- demiento do Quinto do Ouro das 1 conrtrcas de Minns Geraes c Minas Nov. is de 1752 a 1794." '1 he statements in these two manuscripts were found to agree perfectly as far as they coincided in time. [30] ACCOUNTS. No. xx::i. O.ninto do Ouro from the District of Goiazes in Brazil, from the Year 17S8 to 1795. In 1788 - Arrobas. Marcos. Onzas. Outavas. Graos. 9 13 5 - I/89 - 8 10 6 56 - 1790 - 7 47 6 12 - 1791 " 7 46 2 5 9 - 1792 - 9 8 3 7 15 - 1793 - 11 19 7 - 1794 - 7 39 7 1 61 - 1795 - 7 24 5 7 10 There are other mines of Gold in Brazil, as in Cuiaba, Jacobina, and Matogropo, but their produce is inconsiderable when compared with that of Minas Geraes. The Quinto do Ouro is one fifth of the Gold dust carried to the cazas da fundicco or smelting-houses, of which there are four in the Minns Geraes. The Gold is there assayed, weighed, melted into bars and stamped, one-fifth being retained as the royal duty. In the mining district, Gold dust is the common medium of exchange, but till it is stamped and converted into bars it passes for only 4/5 or '8 of its real value, the remaining fifth or "2 being due to the crown before it can be legally exported from the district. An outavo of Gold, for example, which is worth 1,500 rees when stamped, passes for no more than 1,200 rees before it has undergone that operation. There are registos or custom-houses on all the roads leading from the Minas Geraes, where strict search is made to prevent Gold that has not paid the Quinto from being carried out of the country. Minas Geraes is about 100 leagues from Rio de Janeiro, which is the nearest sea port, TABLE of Portuguese Weights, compared with English Troy grains. Arrobas Marcos. Onzas. Outavas. 1 1 64 1 8 512 1 8 64 4,006 Portuguese English grains. Troy grains. 1 72 576 4,608 294,912 55 I 442 & 3,541 J 226,645 J PORTUGUESE COIN, The legal standard of Portuguese Gold is of 22 carats fine and 2 carats alloy ; but from an assay made by Sir Isaac Newton in 1777 it appears that the Portu- guese moidcre contains only 2 1 carats 3$ grains fine, and 2 carats ^ grain alloy. Calculating from this assay, the Portuguese six-mill-four is intrinsically worth onlv ?,5 shillings and seven-pence sterling. From one mare of Portuguese Gold are coined 16 six-mill-fours, equal in value to 5G9 shillings and tour-pence ster- ling. An arroba of the same Gold is therefore equal in value to 36,437 shillings, and four-pence, or ^1,82 1.17. 4. sterling; and 1U0 arrobas are worth .£'.182,1 8203 4 8,309,975 4 1736 11,010,000 7 is, (57 g 2 11,704,079 2 1737 8,122,132 4 313,947 4 8,436,OSO 1738 9,3(JO,250 468,273 4 0,858,523 4 1739 8,680,548 4 310,615 4 8,991,164 1740 9,556,040 309,900 4| 9,805,940 4f 1741 8,636,000 605,661 1 9,241,661 1 1742 8,177,000 624,386 5 8,801, -i86 5 Average 8,993,209 -]- 434,050 1 9,432,259 1 1743 8,619,000 704,208 3 9,323,208 3 1744 10/285,000 818,907 11,103,907 1745 10,327,500 505,760 5 10,833,260 5 1740 11,509,000 42S.149 2 1103/.149 2 1747 12,002,000 309,745 6 12,371,7-15 6 1748 11,6*29,800 327,4 1 1 4 11,050,211 4 1740 11,823,500 313, SS8 I2,137,38S 1750 13,209,000 476,233 6 13.6»5,2}3 6 1751 12,631,000 340,234 61 12,971,234 61 J752 13,625,500 266,560 13,892,060 Average 11,566,030 455,109 -1% 12,021,139 ' 1753 1 1 ,504,000 452,064 12,046,064 1754 11,594.000 309,751 11,903,751 1755 11,959,150 210,746 4 12,175,896 4 1756 12,200,500 731,000 1 030,500 1757 12,52(j,0OO 554,880 13,08: 1758 12,758,500 173,317 1 12,931,817 1 1759 13,022,000 450,168 4 1 3,. 172.10s 4 1760 11, 90S, GOO 465,-101 2 12,433,404 2 1761 11,879,711 z\ 679,505 H \2.55ij.2\7 2 1702 10,114,492 4" 594,838 4 10,709,331 Average 11,971,835- 402,773 i+ 4,6.>8 |32J No. XXIII. — co?dinued. Years. Silver. Gold. Total. Dollars. Dollars. Value. 1763 11,774,964 3i 859,982 A\ 12,634,947 1764 9,792,541 7 553,160 7 10,345.702 6 1765 11,609,496 4 77^,428 12,387,924 4 1766 11,223,986 7h 524,312 11,748,298 7\ 1/67 10,455,284 4 599,214 11,054,498 4 176s 12,326,490 2 933.352 13,259,851 3 1769 11,985,427 2 497,770 12,483,197 2 1770 13,980,816 6 606,4Q4 14,587,310 6 1771 12,852,166 3 501,266 13,353,432 3 1772 17,036,345 3 1,853,440 18,889,785 3 Average 12,303,753 770,742 13,074,494 |4- 1773 19,005.007 2 1,232,318 20,237,325 2 1774 12.938,060 1 728,8g4 13,666,954 1 1/75 14,298,094 4 734,100 15,032,194 4 1776 16,518,935 5 796,602 17,315,537 5 1777 20,705,591 7* 819,214 21,524,805 7\ 177s 19,911,460 818,298 20,729,738 1779 18.759,841 2 675,616 19,435,457 2 1780 17,006,909 \ 507,354 17,514,263 \ 20,335,842 6\ 17,580,490 75 1781 19,710,334 2J 7$ 625,508 1782 17,180,388 400,102 Average 17,603,462 75 733,800 f 18,337,263 17S3 23,105,799 1 610,858 23,716,657 1 1784 20,492,432 1 544,942 21,037,374 1 1785 18,002,956 7 572.252 18,575,208 7 1 786 16 868 ; 6l4 1 2 388,490 17,257,104 5| 1787 15,505,324 605,016 16,110,340 71 1788 19,540,901 7 605,464 20,146,365 7 1789 20,594,875 6 535,036 21,129,911 6 1T90 17,435,614 5 628,044 18,063,688 5 17Q) 20,140,937 980,776' 21,121,713 1792 23,225,611 6 969,430 24,195,041 6 Average 19,491,309 7 644,040 f 20,135,340 5 1 Total C ;inage in 60 years 854.361,fc70 2-| 2. The COINAGE of Mexico in the year 1793, according to the in- formation which Captain Vancouver obtained from the Spanish Go- vernment of St. Jago de Chili, was __■_, Silver. 23,423. XiiA d. "864,262." I 24,312,942. The same statement is given in the Mercur. Perunno, vol. xi. N. B. More than \% million was remitted on the King's account, to Old Spain, in Bullion, in the year 1790. Merc, l'eruan. torn. ii. ACCOUNTS. [33] No. XXIV. ACCOUNT of the Coinage of Mexico in Silver, from 179/3 to 1S04 inclusive, obtained [by Mr. Angibault Morney] from Don Manuel Sixto Espinosa, director of the Caxa de Connolidacion at Madrid. Por Menor de los pesos duros acunados en la casa de Moneda de Mexico, desdeel and 1795 hasta 1804ambos inclusivos. En 1795 --- - 20,480,877 179(5 .... 21,598,891 1797 - - - - 19,649,679 1798 - - ~ - 18,750,890 1-99 - - - - 21,002,134 1800 - - - - 21,860,400 isoi - - - - 20,992,535 j 602 - - - - 21 5 980,776 IS03 - - - - 21,900,040 1804 --- - 22,611,652 2lO,S47,S74 No. XXV. MINES of PERU; Coinage of Lima 5 Mines of Chili 3 and Coinage of Spanish America. MINES of PERU. Marcs. Oz. Total Amount of Silver smelted in the Viceroyalty of Peru, from 1776 to 1785 inclusive; — 10 years 2,979,365 O Annual average during that period - 297,936 4 Amount of do. in 1767 ... - 311,654 4 1788 .... 374,153 7 1789 .... 389,006 4 1790 .... 412,117 7 (Extracted from the Mercurio Peruano, vol. 2d.) w [34] ACCOUNTS. No. XXV. continued.— Mines of Peru ; Coinage of Lima ; &c. PRODUCE of the MINES of PERU, computed from the Royal Duties, from 1780 to I/89 inclusive 5 — 10 years. Silver, made into plate, duty 10 per cent. - Silver, made into ingots, duty lll per cent. - Gold, duty 3 per cent. Total Duties. Corresponding Sums. Dollars. Reals. Dollars. 60,213 2-1 602,130 3,307,580 1J 132,729 O" 29,126,024 4,424,035 3,500,522 4 34,152,189 (Extracted from the Mercuiio Peruano, vol. 4th.) Marcs. Oz. Average of the annual produce of Silver from 1780 3/3, gy6 O to 1789, - - of Gold - - - 3,536 7 (From the same.) COINAGE of LIMA. Annual Average from 1780 to 1789 (From the same) Coinage in 179O — 1/91 — 1792 — 1793 — 1794 (From a MS. Report of the Viceroy of Peru in 1769). Annual Average Silver. Gold. Total. Dollars. 2,804,613 Dollars. 520,933 Dollars. 3,325,546 Dollars. Reals. 5,206,906 2 5,120,234 7 5,605,581 6 5,941,706 6 6,093,037 1 Total 2/^7,566 6 5,593,513 3 MINES of CHILL Dollars. Coinage of Santiago de Chili, from 1782 to 1786 - =2,508,220 Annual Average - - 521,644 Coinage in 1789 971,241 (From MS. Journal of Malespina'a Voyage.) ■ ACCOUNTS. [35] No. XXV. continued.— Coinage of Spanish America. COINAGE of SANTIAGO de CHILI. Coinage of Santiago in 1700 (From Helme's Travels.) Gold. I Silver. I Silver Dollars. I Dollars. 721, rol| 146,132 Total. 807,386 Coinage of Santiago in 1794 (From Vancouver's Voyage.) about 1,000,000 Mares. Dollars. Annual produce of the Gold Mines - 5,200=665,600 of the Silver Mines - 30,000=2-10,000 (From Molina's Historia Civil del Rcyno de Chile, published in 1787.) Total 905,600 GENERAL ESTIMATE of the Annual Coinage of Spanish America. In the Mint of Mexico - - — Guatemala — Lima — Potosi - — Santiago of Chili — Popayan — Santa Fe Dollars. 24,000,000 '200,000 6,000 ; OOO 4,600,000 1/200,000 1,000.000 1,200,000 Total 38,200,000 (From the Viagero Universal of Estala, vol. 20th, published in 1798.) The same is estimated by Bourgoing (edition of 1806) Dollars. from information communicated to him by Hum- boldt, at ... 35,000,000 The same estimated by Malespina (MS.) at - • 40,000,000 [E2] [36] ACCOUNTS. No. XXVI. SPANISH MINT. The Standard of Spanish Silver Coin, since 1/85, has been 10j ounces fine, and 1-^ ounce alloy. The Mint gives 8 dollars for the mark of Silver of the fineness of 11 ounces, and after reducing it to the standard of 10£ ounces, coins it into 8^ dollars: that is, the Mint gives 3,885,176 Spanish grains of pure Silver for 4,128 grains of the same, and consequently gains more than 8 per cent, in the transaction. The price of Silver Bullion is, therefore, always higher in Spain than the Mint price, generally about 6 per cent. The standard of Spanish Gold Coin, since 1785, has also been fixed at 21-£ carats fine, and 24 carats alloy ; and the proportional value of Goid to Silver in the Mini has been as ] 6 to 1 during the same period. — The proportional value of Gold to silver, in the Portuguese Mint, is also as l6 to 1 . For the mark of pure Gold is there worth 104tf. 7^7-rr re ' s J an d the mark of pure silver is worth 6ff. 545 £ T . Importation of GOLD and SILVER into Spain. Dollars. Reals. Importation in the year 1794 - 17,648,878 7 - "-' - 1795 - - - 25,567,521 7 107,308,152 O From 8th Dec. 1 801 to 29th August } 1804;— 2£ years $ Annual Average during this period - - 39,021,146 O (From the books of the Spanish Custom-house.) DUTIES on SILVER. The Tenths and Cobos collected in the Caxas reales amount to 1 14 per cent. The Mint duties amount to somewhat more than 8 p. %• The duty on the importation of silver into Spain amounts to 6 per cent. The duty on the exportation of silver from Spain amounts to some- what more than 44 per cent., viz. 3 p. % to the Crown, and l^p. °f to the bank of San Carlos. The aggregate of these duties on 100 parts of silver, from the time when it is brought into the Caxas reales till it is exported from Spain, amounts to about 27 p. %• DUTIESonGOLD. The duty on Gold in the Caxas reales is 3 per cent. The duty on Gold imported into Spain is 2 1 , per cent. The duty on Gold exported from Spain is 3 per cent, to the Crown, besides the duty to the bank of . c an Carlos, which; I believe, is the same with the duty on silver, that is 14 p. %. ACCOUNTS. [37 No. XXVII. ESTIMATE of the proportional Quantities of GOLD and SILVER extracted annually from the Mines of Spanish and Portuguese America. Eourgoing (edition of IF" the authority of Humboldt, that the ( whole of the annual Coinage or Spa-| nish America amounts to about Dollars. 35,000,000, Of which the propor:ion of Gold is - - 5,100,000 And consequently that of Silver - 29,1 The Royal quinto of Gold collected in Minas Geraes Art-obis. Mark*. amounted in 1/94 to - - - - - 46 44 in Goiazes - - - - - - 7 ^9 As the other Mines of Brazil are, in comparison with these, of little moment, we shall suppose that the luinio from them amounts to no more than 5 55 Total - - CO 00 The quantity of Gold corresponding to this amount of die Royal Duties - 300 00 Marks of Castille. Oz. 300 Portuguese arrobas are equal to - - 10, I5S 3 5,100,000 dollars in Gold contain of Standard Gold 37,500 O Total amount of the annual produce of Gold - 56,658 29,900 dollars contain, of Standard Silver - 3,517,6-47 O The proportional quantity of Silver annually obtained from Spanish America, is therefore, to the quantity of Gold obtained from Spanish and Portuguese America together, as 3,517,017 are to 56,658,4 j or very nearly as 100,000 : I607, or about 03 to 1. {continued) [3S] ACCOUNTS. No. XXVII. — continued. ESTIMATE of the relative Proportions of the GOLD and SILVER obtained from Spanish and Portuguese America,, about the middle of the last Century. GOLD. Arrobas. Marks. The quinto of Minns Geraes in 1753 4 - - 118 50 That of the other Mines of Brazil estimated at - 21 14 140 O Corresponding quantity of Gold - 700 O Dollars. Mark,. Oz. 700 Portuguese arrobas amount in Spanish marks - - - - =44,703 O Gold from Mexico in 1753-4 - - 400,000 •——from Santa Fe and Popayan, estimated at 1 ,200,000 1,600,000=11,764 5 Gold coined in Lima, average from 178O to 178Q - 3,536 O — in Chili, average given by Molina in 1787 - == 5,200 O — Potosi, average irom 1 78O to 1790 - - 1,891 5 Total amount of the annual produce of Gold = 67,095 2 SILVER. Dollars. Marks. Oz. Silver from Mexico in 1753 - = 11,594,000 — from Potosi, average - - 2,518,108 14,1 J 2, 198= 1,660,258 5 from Lima; "average from 1776 to 1785 - 297,936 5 from Chili ; average - 30,000 O 1,988,195 2 Allowance for omissions - 11,804 6 Total amount of the annual produce of Silver = 2,000,000 O The proportion of Silver to Gold, about the middle of the last century, was therefore as 2,000.000: 67,095, or as 100,000: 3354). or about 30 to 1. If the preceding calculations are well founded, the produce of Gold from America has diminished during the last halt century, in the proportion of 67,095 to 56,058, or in the proportion of nearly 6 to 5; while that of Silver has increased during the same period in dis- proportion of 2,000,000 to 3,517,6-17, or very nearly as 2 to 3th ACCOUNTS. [39] No. XXVIII.— STATEMENT of the Amount of the ROYAL DUTIES col- lected at POIOSI, under the denominations of Fifths, Tenths, and Cobos; from the 1st of January 1556 to the 31st of December 1800; with the corre- sponding amount of Silver. R>yal Duties. CorresponJingSilvcr. Dollars, Heals Dollars. Reals. From 1st Jan. 1556, to 1st Jan. 1579, its, Royal Fifths = 9,802,257 1 49,011,287 OJ . 1st Jan. 1579, to 1st Jan. 1736, irs, Fifths and Cobos - ! '",.' 611,256,349 2 1st Jan. 1736, toSlstDec. 1800, 63 years, Tenths and Cobos 18,618,927 168^682^74 5 Total 157^931,123 1 823,950,506 7" bove Statement was extracted from the Books of the Royal Chest of Potosi, by Don Lamberio de Si- erra, Treasurer thereof, and Hono- rary Accountant ; Major of the Tri- bunal of Accounts of the Vice-roy- alty of Buenos Ayres.) Average of the Annual Quantity of S ilver that paid the . Dollars. i 3,354 ,9 JU F.oyal Duties from 1556 to 1800m elusive 245 years. - 1556 to 1578 '23 - 2,043,969 1579 to 1735 157 - 8 893,S52§ 1736 to 1800 €5 - 2,518,198 • AGE of the ROYAL MINT of POTOSI: Of Gold, from 1 7 SO to 1790 J of Silver, from 177 3 to 1790. Gold. Silver. Marcs. Ounce-.. Marcs. In 1773 - 231,853 1771 - 377,9 1775 - 396,196 1776 - 480,981 1777 - 485,32$ 1778 ■ 577,579 L779 - 762 1 780 2 58 1 i 1781 1,604 194 1782 2 204 440, 1783 1 ,: 4 1 2 485,547 1784 1-329 2 1785 l ,628 6 ' , 2,451 4 438,1 1787 i ; I 6 ,544 1788 , 2 1 ,340 1786 - 420, 17yo 2,204 . . . [Error or emission. 1 1 Total 6 Annual Average L891 .; . , Total Valje in Dollars 2,82:9,7 1 8 69,86 real reals Averageof the Ann. Vahn 147 1 3,8? 1. of 1791 reduced | 257,596 i !75 ^Extract [40] ACCOUNTS. ■g i ^ % ~ « "i . > ' S C — « A — 3 w < = 03 O) f- t> o OClO" o « 2 n = < i « i- »i r; 2 CO i-i CM 01 f o 01 K Oi oi « *- o ^ r- t-: i- in i> " *" ^ 1- 'o 00 OS O - '0 '-- '3 t- 1- t~ OJ Cft -1* •o H h ■'■- ooc-. ci>iflMOKaxoiac.n « *» oo e» o -* w on «< «© « r-* oo o « cj.« g< «s 50 t- to o> o -; gj £ «■ ci 01 Oi co co co CO co cc- co co co co ~r — -r -f ~ t -t -r " ' - 1 "O '^ >o _° ■ * . r- r- t- r- i~- t-H I-- I- 1- t- i- r- l> t~- *- r~ t- t- ca O t- t- Ol oco»»if J ai<'ooiO'C --or-* — 01 eo * v-_ (C t~~ oo c, o « 01 co f 10 Jt^W - AC) CO 6 3 = ioo«JO'?- — — — c-f — — — —'-^f^cocciocMr-r-coeoco £ CO « T Tj< CO 01 01 CI 01 Ol MM „«„ rl «„«r.HlM(art OO s a > tc 1- k si - a c- f ^ 1 1- cc - 1 01 « 5TH? 52 fe:'9S S 2 S 1- r- i- 1^ 1 - x cc co x co cr co cc or. c: c c cr. c. t ~ c. c-. c, ^ c 3 s ■; -3 C3 -: 'rice 45 - S YEAR. AND A I Wheat. .USIA. Barley. E6TREM Wheat. Reali • 87 to 50 19 to 19 to 49 ADUPA. B.,rley. 1788 - 1789 - 1790 - 1791 - 1792 - Rials Vellon. 96 to 68 26 to To 34 to 7') 95 to 64 85 to 65 ! 16 to 36 17 to 10 21 to 15 t. 11 to 35 - to 30 19 ■ -nid price 47 10' - - 12 17 - - w [42] ACCOUNTS. No. XXXII. Prices of the Load of four Fanegas of WHEAT and BARLEY, from the Year 1793 to the Year 1804, both inclusive, in the Mar- ket of Medina de Rio Seco, in the Kingdom of Leon. Years. Months. Sort of Grain. Low Prices. High Prices. 1793 - - May - - 1 Wheat - - 120 140 Barley r - 80 112 September - Wheat - - 130 154 Barley - 84 90 1794 - - May Wheat * - 140 179 Barley - - 76 88 September Wheat - - 140 191 Barley - 64 76 1795 - ■ May - Wheat - - 160 194 Barley - 56 66 September - Wheat - - 96 123 Barley - 39 43 1796 - - May Wheat - - 100 126 Barley - 40 48 September - Wheat - - 104 139 Barley - 61 75 1797 - May Wheat - - 125 174 Barley - 120 127 September - Wheat - - rsa 200 Barley 100 ISO 1798 - - May - - Wheat - - 244 270 Barley - 146 160 September - Wheat - - 180 205 Bailey - 80 86 1799 - - May Wheat - - 120 172 Barley - 62 70 September - Wheat - - 88 106 Barley - 42 48 1800 - - May - Wheat - - 100 130 Barley - 66 82 September - Wheat - - 140 200 Barley - 130 148 1801 - - May Wheat - - 146 198 Barley - - 104 126 September Wheat - - 160 206 Barley - 70 88 1802 - - May Wheat - - 216 310 Barley - - 100 122 September Wheat t t 150 244 Barley - 73 83 1803 - - May Wheat - 220 275 Barley r - 108 148 September - Wheat - - 286 330 Barley - 170 184 1804 - - May - r Wheat - - 600 640 Barley - - 180 270 September r Wheat - 400 424 Barley - 192 200 ACCOUNTS. [43] No. XXXIII. ESTIMATE of the Quantities of GOLD and SILVER added to the Commerce of Europe, from l/OO to 802 :— Extracted from a work entitled, " Traite Elementaire de Mineralogie, par Alexandre Brongniart j Paris, I8O7." GOLD. „ SILVER. OLD CONTINENT : Asia - Siberia Kilograms. Kilograms. Kilograms. Kilograms. 1,700 . 17,5C0 — Africa 1,500 — — — Europe — Hungary - 650 - 20,000 — Saltzburg 75 — — — Austrian States "j . . 5,000 — Hartz and Hesse 1 . - 5,000 — Saxony - - 10/00 — Norway - )> /5 - 10,000 — e ten - - ^) France - - [ 5,000 — Spain - J - - J 4,000 — - r Total of the Old Cont. - 72,500 NEW CONTINENT j North America 1,300 - 600,000 — South America : Span. Possess, including"! Choco, Popayan, Santa > 5,000 . 2/5,000 — Fe, Peru and Chili - J Portuguese Possessions 7,500 * 14,100 — — Total of the New Cont. " - 875,000 Tot j l 18,100 947,000 *This number docs not agree with the sum of the numbers in the preceding col. It appears from this Table, that 1. The produce of Gold from the New Y\'orld, is, to its produce from the Old, i to 1. 2. The produce of Silver from the New World is, to its produce from the Old, as 12 to 1. 3. The total annual produce of Silver is, to the total annual produce of Gold, ' to I. 4. The tots' annual produce of American Silver is, to the total annual produce of American Gold, as 62 to 1. In the Estimate which 1 had the honour of submitting to the Bullion Com- mittee on the 10th instant, of the quantities of Gold and Silver extracted an- nually from the Amei i e proportion of Silver to November 1st 13,255,460 4,211,710 1S0Q: February 1st 13,22(5,860 4,333,200 May 1st - - 14,137,410 4,/50Q,{70 August 1st - 14,649,090 5, i 62,240 November 1st 14,481, 100 5,4'JS,100 William Danes, Chief Accountant. No. XXXVI. Tuk AVERAGE AMOUNT of Bank of England Notts in Cir- culation of £. 5. and upwards, including Bank Post Bills, for the Years 1801 and 1802 ; also the Average Amount of Notes under £.5. for the same two years. 1801 - - Notes of £. 5. and upwards - - 13,454,36? Under/,. 5. - - - - 2,715,183 1S02 - - Notes of/,. 5. and upwards - - 13,917,977 Under £.5. - - - 3,130,177 [48] ACCOUNTS. No. XXXVII. An ACCOUNT of the AMOUNT of the NOTES of the Go- vernor and Company of the Bank of England, in Circulation on the 7th a:, d 12th days of each Month, from Deceml,er J 808 to the 12th January 1810 inclusive; distinguishing the Bank Post Bills, and distinguishing the Amount of Notes under the Value of Five Pounds. Bank N,>ies of ■JL. 5. and upwards. Bank Post Bills. Bank Notes under . 5. 1809: January 7th - - — 12th - - 1, 11,718,010 14,077,780 796,250 825,580 4,2 41,'! 20 4,305,920 February 7th — 12th 12,778,660 12,055, SOU 923,540 900 ,0/0 4,351,360 4,345,340 March 7th - - — 12th - - 12,761,730 12,366,480 003,450 899,100 4,347,190 4,364,-1/0 April 7th - — 12th - - 13,062,260 13,661,710 941,530 992,500 4,505,770 4,518.850 May 7th — J 2th 13, id 13,0... 903,100 892,790 4,547,410 4,520,710 June 7th — 12th - - 12,404,120 12,414,120 8-18,440 842,400 4,544,650 4,565,000 July 7th — 12th 12,7.63,880 15. ,06o, 180 807 920 848,330 4,868,620 4, 98 J, 060 August 7th - - — 12th - - 13 ,107,260 13,311,800 901,250 909,290 5,186,880 5,200,590 September /th — 12th - 1 j 42-1,000 13,217 600 882,400 883,880 5,188,580 5,185,280 October 7th - » — 12th - - 13, 542,210 13,298 ; 870 035,410 933,050 5,367,880 5,335,660 November 7 tri - — 12th - 13,652,700 I $578,260 943,450 945,130 5,438,480 5,476,020 December 7 tn — 1 ith 13,381,600 13,438,580 809,740 880,880 5,402,010 5,408,060 1S10: January 7th - - — 12th - - 13,013,790 14,668,640 851,160 884,120 5.663,080 5,854,170 Bank of England, "> 9th February 1S10. J William Daives, Accountant General. ACCOUNTS. L-19J No. XXXVI II. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of BANK NOTFS out in Cjrcula- tion each Day (Sundays and Holidays excepted) from the I2fh of January to the 4th of February 1810, and on eve:y Monday, Wednesday, and Friday in eacli Week, from the 4th to the 23d of February 1 8 1 ; distinguishing the Bavk Post Bills, and distin- guishing the Amount of Notes under the Value of £. 5. ; and spe- cifying for the l6th day of February 1810, the Amount of Notes of £. 5. and of £. 10. each, on that Day. 1810. (Saturday) January 13 (Monday) 15 (Tuesday) 16 (Wednesday) 17 (Friday) 19 (Saturday) 20 (Monday) 22 (Tuesday) 23 ( Wednesday) 24 (Friday) 26 (Saturday) V (Monday) *9 (Wednesday) 31 (Thursday) February 1 ( Saturday) 3 Monday 5 Wednesday 7 Friday 9 Monday 12 Wednesday 14 Friday - - 10 Monday 19 Wednesday 21 Friday 23 Bank Notes of £.5. and upwards. Bank Post Bills. 13,728,820 13,512,l)()0 14,079,120 13,800,090 13,009,290 1 3, 70 13,254,440 13,807,030 13.200,700 13,873,000 13,549,820 13,424,1.00 13,222,540 14,009,370 13,920,030 13,354,320 13,241,040 13,634,010 13,330,850 13,588, 520 13,877,730 13,150,920 13,454,730 13,855,550 C 892,010 897,950 901,010 913,960 923,270 032,700 92 1 ,460 924 210 927,300 939,440 044,220 974,950 960,070 970,9.00 975,020 956,230 959,150 970,600 1 ,00s, 700 970,350 953,340 W4.740 020,030 Bank Notes under j;.5. I'. 5,894^00 5,880,500 5,926,910 5,072,940 5,887,250 5,914,400 5,893,900 5,871,800 5,857,580 5,37o,470 5,916,040 5,004,450 5,(153,210 5,894,01O 5.926,080 5,933,010 5,897,490 5,891,340 5,893,920 5,855,420 5,874,700 5,883,760 5,844,300 57,500 Amount of Bank Notes in circul ation of £, 5. and £, 10. each on the Kith of February 1810. Of C- 5. - £. 2,310,840. Of £. 10. - £. 2,572100. Bank of England, ^ 2oth February lb 10. J 1 Villi am Dawes, Chief Accountant. •3 [50] ACCOUNTS. No XXXIX.— An ACCOUNT of the Weekly Amount of RANK NOTES in Circulation, from the 12th of January 1810; distin- guishing the Tank. Post Bills, and the Amount of Notes under the Value of Five Pounds. Of £. 5. and upwards. Bank Post Bills. Under 1810. January 19 13,869,290 923,270 5,887,2:0 26 13,8/3 000 939,440 5,878,470 February 1 14,069,370 9/0,990 5,994,010 13,634,010 ()70,600 5,891,340 16 13,8/7,730 076,350 5,874,700 23 13,855,550 9'20 030 5,857,500 March 2 14,205,760 900,600 5,892,350 9 13,679,440 897,500 5,850,140 Bank of England, \ 14th March 1810. J William Dawes, Chief Accountant. No. XL.— An ACCOUNT of the Amount of BANK NOTES in Circulation on Saturday Night, from the Beginning of March to 4 the 12th of May IS 10. Of £.5. and upward;. Bank Post Bills. Under £. 5. 181 O.March 3 ;£• 13, 894,410 =£.900,700 ^.5,922,900 10 13,482,240 895,980 5,893,760 17 13,584.820 899,480 5,900.320 24 ]3,957,710 932,830 5,939,110 31 14.271,180 986. 98O 5,983,970 April 7 13,71-1,680 988.9OO 6.104,170 14 15,054,100 0/0,140 6,180,400 21 14,361,370 1,006,380 6,219,450 28 14,409.260 1,012,780 6,185,740 May 5 14,180,090 963,820 6,161.020 12 14,093,130 916,160 6,114 540 Bank of England, > 16th May 1810. ) William Dcaves, Chief Accountant. No. XLI.— An ACCOUNT of all the DOLIARS issued by the Bank of England, to the 8th Day of February 1810, inclusive. Dollars stamped in the Year 1/9", and issued Do. stamped in the Year 1804, and issued Do. stamped in the Years I8O9 and 1810, arid issued Dollars - Dollars. 2,325,099 1,4:9,484 1,073,051 T,8 177634 Bank of England, \ 9th February 1810. $ hi. Hose, Chief Cashier. ACCOUNTS. [51] No XLII. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of BANK of ENGLAND NOTES lying in the Exchequer in each Month , to December lbOS exclusive. from December 180(3 1 BOG. f. s. d. £. s. d. Dec. 5th - 3,00/,200 Br 1 , forward 37,396,600 imli - 3,013,200 1808. 1807 . Jan. 15th - 33,900 J Kith . 12.100 Eeb. 1 3th - 1,042,600 Fetx Oth - 1-1,300 O March 11th - 3,200,000 March O'fh . 15,700 25 th - 3,294,200 2-th - 1,520,300 April 14th - 47,90 ) April l/th - 10,30) O May 13«h - 49,000 May 15th - 15,(;O0 27th - 53,000 June 13th - 2,02), 000 June 23d - 20,100 J'lly 10th - IS. 300 July 22d - 19,600 Augttst 7th - 3,017,800 August 19th - 17,600 Sept. -It!) - 3, 01 0,000 Sept. lO'th - 22,300 (Jet. 2d - 0.01 3, SOO Oct. 7th - 2,701,600 30th - 3,513 900 28th - 18/100 O X.iv. 2;th - 6,289,100 Nov. 25 tli - 16,300 Dee. 1 Sill - 5,885,300 £■ 4S,(K)5,900 () Car 1 * forward the 37,300,000 quer, 21st> day ot' Marc h 1810. £ W. Rose Haworth. No. XLUI. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of the BANK of ENGLAND NOTES lying in the Exchequer in eaih Month, from December 1808 inclusive, to the 10th February 1810. 1S0S. ■j.:, d Dec. 20th J:in. 17th Feb. I7lb March 14th April 12th May 9th June 30th June 28th J;,!/ CaH forward £. s. d. I 322,000 O ' Br', forward ISO9. 1 1,900 O I 25th August 13,300 O 0' 29,800 o o 19,500 o o 27,000 00 31,900 o o 37,300 8 6 19,400 53d Sept. 201 h Oct. 17th Nov. J 5th Dee. 1810. 12th Jan. - 5th. Land, 1707 Malt, 1797 Land, 1798 Malt, 1798 Advanced out of sums issued for the^ - nay men t of Dividends $ 1,716,000 750,000 o o 2,000,000 O 521,000 O :>76>739 o 9 '5^363739 °1T {continued) ACCOUNTS. [53'j Account of Advances made by the Bank of England — (continued). 1799- /• *• d. Jan> 5th. I^nd and Malt, 1797 - - Ij^.ooo O D° - 1 "US - - 2,432,000 O O Malt - 1799 - - 719,000 o Exchequer Bills £. 2,000,000. on Per- £ sonal Estates 1799 - S 2 "'° 00 ° ° D%3 .000,000. Supply, 1 796, at £. 5. ( 3>Q0O}0OQ Q Q per cent. S Advanced out of sums issued for the pay- > _ M ^ ,_-_ _ _ ment of Dividends \ 3/6 « 39 ° 9 7,454,739 9 1600. Jan> 4th. Land, 1797 - - - 242,000 D° - 1798 - - - 475,000 O Malt, 1798 - - - /i,000 O D° - ^799 - - - 750,000 D° - isoo ... 750,000 o o Exchequer Bills, Personal Estates - 48,000 O O D° (. 3,000,000. Supply, 1799 - 3,000,000 1)° .3,000,000. Vote of Credit, 1799 1,000,000 O 1> Credit of Income Tax, 1799 - 521,500 00 Advanced out of sums issued for the pay-) r ' ment of Dividend* $ _____? 7,232,239 9 237,000 O 503.000 O 750,000 O 280,000 O O Personal Estates 1800, Exchequer Bills 410000 D° - 1801 - D° - 2,000,000 O Supply 1800, [. 3,000,000. D° - 3,000,000 O O Exchequer Bills, Bank Charter, with- ) out Interest \ 3 ^ 000 ^ 000 ° ° D° Income I ax 1799 " " 301,500 Advanced out of sums issued for the pay- ) __.. to _^ _ ment of Dividends ' \ *??>™ ° 9 1801. Jan> 5th. Land, 170s Malt, 1799 D° - ISOO D" - 1S01 10,98.3,239 9 (continued) m ACCOUNTS. Account :of Advances made by the Bank of England — {continued). 1802. £. s. d. JarJ 5th.' Malt, 1S0O - - - 433,000 Do. -1801 - - - "50,00000 Do. - 1802 - - - 500,000 Personal Estates, 1801, Exchequer Dills 90,000 Do. 1802, Do. - 2,000,000 Vote of Credit, 1802, £. 2,000,000. 1-18,000 Exchequer Bills, Bank Charter - 3,000,000 O O Do. Supply, 1801, £. 3,000,000. - 3,000.000 Advanced outof sumsissued furthepay- ) „_,•_„„ ~ _ , mem ol Dividends $ ' ' u u 10,357,739 y 1S03. ■ Jan>' 5th. Malt, 1801 - - - H9.OOOOO Do. - 1S02 - - - 750,000 Do.- 180J - - - 750,000 Personal Estates, 1803, Exchequer Bills 4S4..000 Supply, 1802, £. 1,500,000. Do. - 1,500,000 lank Charter Do. - 3,000.000 Advancedoutofsumsissuedforfhepay-) _„- „„, _ , % 11*111 of Dividends \ 3 '°" J 9 ° ? 6,979,739 9 1S04. Jan>' 5th. Malt, 1802 - 134,000 Do. - 18o3 - - - 750,000 Do. - 1804 - • - 455,000 Supply 1803, *.l,500,00O. Exchequer J ]>500GOO Q Bank Charter Do. 3,000,000 Advanced out of sums issued for the pay- "l ,,_ r _„„ a ment of Dividends ? l«f 3 ^ 3 9 9 _0'^5 : 73O 9 1805. Jan? 5ih. rvialt, 3S03 - - - 326,000 Do. - 1S04 - 750,(00 Personal Estates 1804, Exchequer Bills 11 1,000 Supply, 18,4, ,£.1,500,000. Do. - 1,500.000 rank Charier Do. - 3,000,000 Vote of Credit 1S04, £. 2 500,000. ) on Aids or Supplies 1805, Ex- > 1,500,000 chequer Bills ^ Advanced out of sums issued for the pay ) - „« „„ „ ami of Dividends 'j ^76,739 9 7,563,739 9 (continued) ACCOUNTS. [55] Account of Advances made by the Fank of England — (continued). 1806. £. s.d. Jan? 4th. Malt, 1804 - - - 341,000 Do. - 1805 -.- 750,000 O Supply, 1S05, £.1,500,000. Exeheq. Bills 1,500,0(X) Bank Charter Do. - 3,000,000 O O Ad\ anced out of sums issued for the pay-) rfi „ n n roent of Dividends $ _^ °" 3 9 ° 9 5.967,739 9 1807. Jan>' 5th. Malt, 1805 - - - 220,000 Do. - 1806 - - - /50,OO0 Supply, 1 805, £. 1 ,500,000. Exeheq. Hills 1,500,000 O Do. l'S06, £.3,000,000. Do. - 3,000,000 O O Aids, 1800", Cap. C)3 Do. - 2.52,000 O Supply, 1806", £. 10,500,000. Do. - 693,000 Advanced out of sumsissued for the pay- ment of Dividends } 375,739 9 6,791.739 9 18^8. Jan>" 5th. Malt, 1806 - - - 273,000 Do. - 1807 - - - 7^0,000 O Supply, 1807, £. 1,500,000. Exeheq. Bills 1,500,000 O Do. -' Ib07 Do. - 3,000,00.0 O Do. - 1807 £■ 10,500 000 Do. - 600,000 O Advanced ourof sums fss'utfd for the pay- \ o>-r -^ ^ ment of Di\ idends 6,499,739 9 ISO9. 1 - Jan> 5th. Malt, I8O7 - - - 358,000 Do. &:c., 1808 - - - 98,000 0-0 Supply, 1 80S, £.1,500,000. Exeheq. Bills 1,500,000 Do. -1807, Do. - 3,000,000 Bank Loan ... 3,000,000 Advanced outofsums issued for the pay.- 1 ■ , ment of Dividends 8,832,739 O 9 1810. Jan> 5th. Malt, &c, 1009 " - - 98,000 Supply, 1809,£. 1,500,000. Exeheq. Bills 1,500.000 O Do.- 1808, Do. - 3,000,000 Bank Loan - - - 3,000,000 Advanced out of sumsissucd for the pay-") t ,_.. ment of Dividends ' s .-i,"-» 7 Bank of En^Liid, 14th March 1810. //. Jlasr, Chief Cashier. [56] ACCOUNTS. No. XLVI. An ACCOUNT of all Issues of the Coin of this Realm, from the Bank of England, since the 1st of May 1803, under any Orders in Council, made for that Purpose} — specifying the Date of each Order, and the Amount issued thereupon. 'IheD ATESof the SUMS To WHOM Issued. Orders in Council. Issued. Issued between 1st* £. 5. d. Ma } lS03and8th March 1810. in pursuance of an V Order in Council, (561,480 {The Treasurer of His Ma- \ jesty's Navy. dated 91I1 October 1799 1803 May 25 - 100 /The I at Ordnance Storekeeper Woolwich. — June 29 100 . Do. — ' July 2U - 100 - Do. — August 22 - 100 - Do. . — September 23 100 «. Do. — October 28 100 . Do. — November 30 100 » Do. — December 28 200 . Do. 1804 January 31 200 . Do. — February 27 200 - Do. — March 29 - 200 - Do. — April 28 - 200 . Do. — May 14 4,400 /The I ty Treasurer of His Majes- s Ordnance. — — 24 1,400 c The 1 at Ordnance Storekeeper Woolwich. 1S05 January 25 2,000 - Do. — March 1 - 2,500 , Do. — — 27 - 2,500 . Do. — May 6 2/00 - Do. — June 6 3,000 - Do. — — 22 3,000 - Do. — August 6 r 3,000 . Do. — — 20 - 200 - Do. — September 23 200 - Do. — October 28 200 _ Do. — November 30 200 _ Do. — December 21 200 _ Do. JSCG January 24 200 . Do. — February 22 200 . Do. — fv'arch 27 - 200 I Do. ' cTu" ried forward 1 060,080 {continued ) ACCOUNTS. No. XLVI. — continued. [57] The DATES of the SUMS To WHOM Issued. Orders in Council. Issued. £• s. d. brought forward 6S9,080 (The Treasurer of His Ma- 1806 April 18 - 4,200 \ jesty's Ordnance. — — 28 200 JThe Ordnance Storekeeper \ at Woolwich. -i. May 3 1 200 Do. — June 30 200 Do. — July 29 200 Do. — August 23 - 200 Do. — September 27 200 Do. — October 30 200 Do. £— i November 24 200 Do. — December 26 200 Do. 1807 January 23 200 Do. — February 23 200 Do. — March 25 - 200 Do. — April 23 - 200 Do. — — 11,550 r e Treasurer of His Ma- lesty's Ordnance. — June 25 200 f The Ordnance Storekeeper at \ Woolwich. — Jtrly 25 200 Do. — October 27 2000 Do. — December 16 14,000 fThe Paymaster General of \ His Majesty's Forces. j The Ordnance Storekeeper at \ Woolwich. — 23 - 200 1S0S January 26 200 Do. — March 31 - 200 Do. — May 3 1 200 Do. ~ June 25 «00 fMessrs. Potts and Johnson, 1 Overs", of the Poor, Birmin m . — — 29 - 200 c The Ordnance Storekeeper at \ Woolwich. — July 26 - 200 Do. — September 27 200 Do. — October 24 200 Do. 1809 January 24 200 Do. — March 28 - 200 Do. — May 23 - 200 Do. June 24 200 Do. — September 25 200 Do. October 26 200 725,330 1 Do. Bank of England, 20th Mar>.h 1 B 10. U. Uau t CLkf CaoLier. M [581 ACCOUNTS. No. XLVII. The AMOUNT of BANK NOTES in Circulation, on Saturday Night in each Week of the Year 1 797; and the Course of Exchange on Hamburgh, on the following Tuesday. 1796. December 31 - 9,201,295 1797' January 3 - Sid. 35/5 1797. January 7 14 21 28 - 9,l81-s843 9.888,731 10,545,271 10,018,074 10 17 24 31 - 35/8 35/5 35/3 35/3 February 4 11 18 25 - 9,660,611 9,425,224 9,128,512 8,638,954 February 7 14 21 28 - 35/ 34/9 35/4 3510 March 4 11 18 24 - 10,412,412 10,384,431 9.995,611 10,501,378 March 7 14 21 28 - 35 t 36/ 36/ 36/ April 1 8 15 22 29 - 10,943,221 11,554,372 12,613,053 12,123,547 13,049,955 April 4 11 18 25 May 2 - 36/9 36/2 36/ 364 36/ May 6 13 20 27 - 13,581,274 12,212,266 11,956,012 10,880,108 9 16 23 30 - 36/2 36 2 36/3 36/4 June 3 IO 17 23 - 11,237,106 10,230,601 10,975,943 10,284,600 June 6 13 20 27 - 363 36/4 364 36/4 July I .8 15 22 29 - 10,764,170 10,776,482 11,375,960 11,253,529 11,233,809 July 4 11 18 25 August 1 - 36/6 36/9 36 8 368 36,8 August 5 11 26 - 11,105,768 11,453,737 10,936,954 10,564,109 8 15 22 29 - 36/8 36/10 37,2 38/ (continued) ACCOUNTS. [59] 1797- September l 9 16 23 30 " 11,434,462 1 1 ,024,603 10,710,192 10,649,7£2 11,834,751 1797. Sept r . 5 12 19 26 October 3 - s. d. 37'10 38/ 37/8 37/8 377 October 7 14 21 27 - 10,505,234 11,777,313 12,113,313 12,448,026 10 17 24 31 - 37/10 37'10 38 38'2 November 3 11 18 25 - 11,980,334 11,671 070 11,309,010 11,200,816 November 7 14 21 28 - 37/10 38'1 38/1 38/1 December 2 9 16 23 30 - 10,684,914 11,261,839 10,897-328 11,440,S79 11,276,712 December 5 12 18 26 1798. January 2 - 333 38 4 385 38/5 38 2 1798. January 5 - 11,051,971 9 - 37/11 N. B The above Course of Exchange taken VVetenhaH's publication of Castaign's Pap March 12th, 1810. trom ) ;rs. J John Ifliitmore. No. XLVJII. AMOUNT of Bank of England Notes in Circulation of Five Pounds and upwards, includ.ng Bank Post Bills, on the under- mentioned Dates ; viz. 795. January 3 - 10,891,220 1810. January 7 - 13,864,050* 10 - 11,427 ,410 12 - 15.5 17 - 11,995.270 19 - 14./C2 5')0 24 - 12,090,060 26 -14,812 10 31 - 12,715,810 February 1 - 1 5,040,0 60 February 7 - 12.870.480 9 - 14,604, 10 14 - 13,021,820 10 - 14 854,080 21 - 13,042,140 2:< - 14,77 28 - 14,017,850 March 2 - 15," March 7 - 14,155,280 9 - 14 5 The above extracted from the Account transmitted 21sl March Ifi 10. * Extracted from the Account presented to the Houie of Commons, 9th of February 1810. The remainder from the Account transmitted to the Bullion Committee 14th March 1810. £h2] [60] ACCOUNTS. No. XLIX. COMPARISONS of Hamburgh Exchanges with Amount of Bank Notes at various Periods. BANK NOTES in Circulation :— See Report delivered to the House of Commons, 18th March 1797 . 1/87- 25th Feb 1788 - Do. 1789 - Do. 17.QO - Do. 17.91 - Do. 1792 - Do. =£8,688,570 9,370,350 9,905,240 10,217,360 11,609,140 11,349,810 1793 - 25th Feb. ^11,493,125 1794 - Do. - 10,699,520 1795 - Do. - 13,539,160 1796 - Do. - 11,030,110 =£107,992,385 Average of 10 years - 10,799,238 From April to June 1 793, the average of those three months was* 12,104,040 5th September 1795f - 11,154,826 For the amount of Bank Notes from Jst January 179,5, to 1st March ] 797, vide Account of "Weekly Totals within those periods, delivered 19th March 1810. * May 3d, 1793, the highest Hambro' Exchange 37s. 6g. £11. 6s. percent, above par. f September 1st, 1795, the lowest Do. Do. 32*. 6g. 3 J per cent, below par. The par of the Hambro' Exchange is taken at 33: — 8§ being the par in com- mon acceptation. RESTRICTION BILL, 27th February 1797. Tt tal of Bank Notes. Rate of Hambro* Exch. 27th February 1797 - 8| Millions - 35s. 6g, Rose gradually in 1797 & 1798 to 13 - " » 38 O March 1799 - ' 13± - * 37 7 After this period, great commer- • . cial distress, large importations of corn, heavy subsidies, and the Hambro' Exchange con- tinued falling, and on 2d Jan. 1801, was as low as .... fall 29 8 Between the end of the year 1799 f ") f to the end of 1802 an in- I creased quantity of £1. and J 13^ Lin— *.,„*: „J from 33 3 £:2. notes were issued, swei-1 to > Fluctuation^ ling the sum total of all t l6| J to 29 8 Notes to - - I ' J I from 32 10 1 to ( ' ' J r i6i^ From Jan. 1803 totheendof 1807< to > Fluctuation^ ri7{^| fire frcm Jan. 18C8 to Christmas 1809^ to VFall - < lis J Lto to - 35 10 17{"| ffrom 34 9 28 6 Jhe rate of the Hambro' Exchange is taken from Lloyd's List, ACCOUNTS. [01] No. L. An ACCOUNT of the Amount of the NOTES and POST BHXS of the Bank of Ireland in Circulation on the 1st January, April, June, and September, commencing the 1st January 180 I ending the 1st January 1810; distinguishing the Notes from the Post Bills, and distinguishing the Amount under the Value of *. .5. £. s. d. 1,155,448 3 10J 1,2/2.539 11 474,450 18 MJ 2,902,438 13 10 1805. Notes, value of 5 Pounds Sc upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds - Post Bills - Jst Jan. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,144,302 17 1 Pitto, below Five Pounds - - 1,295,844 19 6 Post Bills - 438,5 92 14 7 J 1st April. 2,90S 740 11 3£ Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,077,855 9 61 Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 1,233,939 14 74 Post Bills - 501, 800 17 5 1st June. 2,813 ,686 1 J Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,060,421 8 11 Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 963,442 9 10| Post Bills - - . 481,612 18 ll\ 1st Sept. 2,305. 476 17 g 1806. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - Jst Jan. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - Jst April. Notes, value of 5 Pounds &: upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - 1st June. Notes, value of 5 Pounds &: upwards l,llp.3(;3 J3 O Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 893 91 4 11 O Post Bills - - - 687,499 6 8 1st Sept. 2 / 6uO807~K)~ s~ (continued) 1,148,338 16 856,571 13 460,800 4 3 3 2,465,710 13 6h 1,154,154 13 789-183 8 467,005 19 4 2,410,434 J§ 1,159,815 10 858.838 19 503,0b2 4 2,581736 13 64 Li 8 [62] ACCOUNTS. Account of Notes and Post Bills of the Bank of Ireland — continued. £. s. d. 1607. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,255,635 13 1 " Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 927.208 12 9 Post Bills ----- 635 ,29 6 14 1| J st Jan. 2,818,740 19 1 1-*- Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,235,569 16 0-J- Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 9 24 >547 7 9 Post Bills - - - - 682,602 8 0t 1st April. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills Jst June, Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - Jst Sept. 1808. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills 1st Jan. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - Jst April. Notes, value of 5 Pounds and upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills - 1st June. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills 1st Sept. 1809- Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards Ditto, below Five Pounds Post Bills Jst Jan. 2,842719 11 10 1,197,556 10 912,272 4 672944 H 0* 2,782,772 14 3 1,114,291 19 839,932 1 661,430 8 101 9 lOf 2,615,654 10 6 1,184,846 5 825,500 15 722,136 17 1 3 1 2,732,483 17 5 1,158,314 9 8 1 1 ,6S5 1 745,714 16 9 2,715 714 8 1,267,423 10 857,630 4 769,827 15 °i 61 2,894,881 9 7 1,194,558 5 905,438 18 800. 741 1 H 9 6 2,900 738 5 H 1,282,709 14 955,429 7 903,271 17 3,141,410 lQ 1 {continued) ACCOUNTS. [63] Account of Notes and Post Bills of the Bank of I: aland — continued. C. s. d. 1800. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,300,158 11 S\ (cont - ) Ditto, below Five Pounds - - ()S1 807 14 3 Post Bills ()12 ,381 7 ll£ 1st April. 3,200,3 47 13 11 Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,233,343 10 34, Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 963,064 g 6 Post Bills 904,3 54 18 7\ 1st June. 3,101,362 18 5 Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,223,601 O 9* Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 861,893 1 6 Post Bills 845.925 7 I| 1st Sept. .2,931,419 Q 6~ 1810. Notes, value of 5 Pounds & upwards 1,385,895 4 O Ditto, below Five Pounds - - 837,6-19 6 1| Post Bills 968,641 14 6 1st Jan. For the Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland, William Dun levy, Dublin, 14th March 1810. Accountant General. No. LI.— An ACCOUNT of the Value of Silver Tokens is- sued by the Bank of Ireland, to the 3d March 1810. Value of 6s. Tokens issued - £232,052 O O Ditto of 2s. 6d. bitto - - 395,263 O Ditto of Wd. and 5d. Ditto - 520,041 O Total Value 1,147,356 O O For the Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland, William Donlevy, Dublin, 3d March 1810. Accountant General. No LII.— An ACCOUNT of the Number of LICENCES for the Issue of Promissory Notes payable on Demand, which were granted by, or by Authority of the Commissioners of Stamps, for the year ending the 10th October I8O9. NUMBER OF LICENCES 735. Comptroller's Office, Stamps, ") C/ias. Stedman, February Oth, 1810. J Depv Comp ,r & Accomp 1 G'. [54] ACCOUNTS. £si U'OOOO OOOO OOOO OCOto vj te 1 . ■* © N «5 "*-*00 O -* GO -I « — io »o ^| « "•-<■-• i-» •— 1 i-tr-i •-• tog ■-. *< C<» iO t£ u} CO CO CO ID OlC; tJ< c*j -« — Oj . — 3* O O O'O—JO co00>«0 -* -h ^ o «« «o <9 q io t^. q *^ -^ co <0 co co ' 6 Oi<0 O OCUO© cocoOOi o* w O . CD *h CO -* ifl 0">"0 KjOlNM M ONTf co co <* »o i^a>ro"!j< o> co d -* ko^c en •OCOO>O)C0CDC000 io<0 "O n O-h KQO e^ -* O^ C«OC0C0" V 't'O»CC5 u t Jfi t3 ^; ... _ . -O C ff» -a Si O "si •e'COOOOCOOOO OOOO O CO co Co CL " be . ,;«0««0 0«<50NTJ2 ■<* CO f>. Q> '-S t> tij ClCO ->tf *^ Oi GO CO CO OM N O »C CO >0 O 11 ^ « -H — ^CO^fCO fO«M COOi^CS 1 d H b Hi ho ^©on c<5 CiOiOco COC065C0 oaao a "8^ . • m^ho © OMio Cjco oco M — -HCO 8 •-« x . CO r^ -h -• co t-x co co »CTtcoco Q OOOhD © OlTf ^ OK©<0 <0 O CT>g *<* ^ 00 t>»eo — - ~ -H -H 1 1 1 1 1 1 < 1 1 1 1 • ■ 1 1 1.3J §Vdl fad! ^xs jjj ^ «cj u3 _s -5 .5 -g ■£■£■£ •£ Xi .a .a .« S"0<00 trj "O *0 O J) "0>0 6 "0«5«)0 »rj *CJ "G T3 - »-' ^ ^ vll a> 1 ^ 1 ^ 1 -u 1 1 I ! ** J lll~ 4 -'Jli* 4 "'lll Sill O - C G Ol ACCOUNTS. 6CO SO ■3 -« 53 8 -o •^ o o o '-o . 15 «) 115 t > '# I * $ § 2 * ia o j s> 3 T3 O O O O . -. 19 10 M -« O O 5 O Vj cc co -• ^ * £S<0 Si 2 si tjOOOO »,- O CN O ^ CJ « •* :o . -* co CO -i V5 *> ©, - * "3 ~ >< . "« 3} _; «< o-> go rs) . CN W >0 'O . _ o -* CO CO -< Ci -* co 10 m 'n CN -1 CN CN & 3~ 2 6 °- 3 O -q coco O O CO „• -. o ^ o o> i^CB CN CN CO . -1 l^O O co t^i o ~< [0 O CO S JO .c « "7! »■ "O „ •§1 •§.-§ C £ 8 b o o u o -a « 45 $•§ J if ■So, fc aS .3** 3-,-" £J y a 5: .2 c 13 C'v £ S g S ^ H - e S "B . ■= CO (v,^ 1 ■= CO u o.s --s U !) C Jj> — o P 3 "5.-3 « 2 8 o rc >- B ai Hi" £.0* S S.-2 1% ^i ;- a. a «a -° a, gi 18 a. r (S3 O ~ at) 9 •- p [66] ACCOUNTS. II f- 1 .S OJ3 s 8 PL, T3 C go X2 i: M.S « s §te o . t^ ^oooooo s-S" w i- >^ cd «CCMC0H(Oirj«OO CM ^>-o _» u> l-t r-t M — — 1 01 Jj o *- 1 ■— J^ -* CO "tf CO KMK OB >2 S oo r'S. 1 . Oj G)CO t+i io r-l io IfJ — 1 m -* O cm" tC co" -«" o> to ~. * . — . ^2 cq 8 S -<* co -* co --o oo ^ -©00 O K- CO H 'OOOI'DOo'Oro C3j *^o £ S H «3 CO O ^ co in m h *^C -+ — «0 O CO In. in |CO CM O CI o lO-t^l^cOfCOiOCDICD <^ IN. CO CM^ O) *N. oo co^ co «3 « t^ CO ^Mr-T cS 'O . CO Tf ijoooooooooIo >o O ■si 1 "H C CD .COhQOO OlO O io OlN io O "> •-( .-1 I— ( i-l | — ( £ >5 § i aKHOcoci-*Hio l^ P o Ci CO CO »C "t -T CO O — i CM CO IT) K J3 ■ to k it c-ii h « - q w c 00 c ■* ><>3 i-T <$> tZ CO cm" tff — " co" co"co" , CO CM CO co .r> CM -h -r 'o Cl CM tjOOO oooooo o CD O *° lT "8 Ik. COhIOCOhcOioOO to CM O i J_ QO •>* C) — ' Jn, CM Cv CM C> CD 1 CO CO o r ■ rtl •OK'C,1"tOOOi IN 3 .5 ~ ^ £ £ 3 8 §5 • cn -r =0,01,- » t< o - * en Ol — Ore 5 a o § C~ r~ to « CO Ol CO | «~ Ji. 5s « co § O co -< | ^ g s "z uo 3 2 ■ _i ^ » O * •* « ^ <-. w a . 1 «j 01 « t» — , -.^•OC-OOOO ^ W CO CO N i 1 — ^ ! LV. Note , bei :orres 1" <; 3 3 ft -- cn co >o * co ct> . - 10 CI * « >o C) O) f CO CO 00 — CO No. .sory 1810 thee Ol l-H 0J Ou 1- "M CO X X CO CO So 3 ^ cr. oo « w •2 v -2 "5 v o c fo*»«- ~ § § a Z a CO r -r » - 1 CL, ~ ps of : Day of Quarte Pi o 3 ft ■S*C0O<£>OC9!0 > .Q O -''-C0-S < t- i :^?do8 • C4U)" nu)M »s "s.s.g.a .5 - -g JS '-5 -o -a -3 fel | ^2^ t3 jj 3 'J *» ■" u fe ® i J< 3 u n u u u J3 O £ 2 - ... o o o o o o c c c a a a a 55 1 1 1> 5 H A O •so [I 2] [68] ACCOUNTS. OHDOOO C-1 CO e> to to E m f! i^ 00 00 «5 m to tj r- cm h i CO 10 01 ffi w — of oo" «*OOOOlo f O t 00 « Ol I> o co oi to co e» o> - to* o>i> on -. r o -< -> h 3 3 01 : >' I H!)s l h- ."' tO 08 — — > •*■ CM — OftO to O co co to co CO O co Co »o «j ■*" to to co oa *f Q yj* I ! I O 1< o o CO CD ■* CO «fi «* •* * -« o r- ■jjOcoOiflOOO . m « w o » «; 'o -< o. co oo » * •>*< . o to to t- to C-l CO 1 1 1 o o o o © CO CO CO ci oa oo «t< O 00 oi to c — o> av o> co > "«*ooooOto» 1" oo O to O to to •* 00 O 10 O OJ Q, (U q O O O 2 O C O £ a s = a s s; •J w vs w en l -o g si si si si *« ^ 3 bO bo bo fc>0 bo oo CO. 3 3 3 3 5 3 'any cceed cceed cceed cceed ccecd I I I I (ill III' III! > I I • r i • 4 > > o o ■S • • ' ' • • •£ S 5 s » i i t i • « « -a ~ c-2 ACCOUNTS. [69] * c > -a 06 o o o o »; o o - O >0 O w ,,| t* J 2 1 95 of en £81 ©co x x ofci co o" its co -1 r- cOfOOOOO 00 — to CO CO 00 o 10 i« 3i to o» cm « co O O W O C O O O W5 -1 00 O »c 01 O 'C — — 1 Q to f- o^>o to *-• o to* of c~ «o of 00 h 'O vo 3 •>«) t O <5> E o E 3 ^ S PS CO to Oi ^ 233 iii 1 1ML 1 1 1 I -^ •*• ■* O 'O lO t- to Oi 6 Q o to O t- cc * C '-O o o o 00 — to co 00 00 o »o i- d t- co »c — u~ t!< — -r « 1- co to 01 EoE 5 • i'lJfXOIS 2 ° II »' o - - CO ■*< CO en w" © of o> ci 9 01 to TWO' 00- O to to CO ■* t- o a ■S • ' • • • • -3 » a 4) 1 I t . ■ 1 «J ! "8 « 2 « »' I ! X O O to o o o OO'0h«O 1 -1 C «5 - - C to 55 to x «j o 3: 0> '•: to 1-1 o - - Ex J* « c « 2 o 112 IS •si- 5 '. «. * 3 1 70] ACCOUNTS. Nos. LVI.— LVJI._ LVI1I. LETTER received from Mr. Grbfftjlhe, 14th March 1810: — With two Enclosures marked (A), and (B). relative to the Weight and Standard of Gold and Silver. Sir, According to your desire t have the honour to enclose a Statement of the Prices ot Gold and Silver «t Hamburgh and Amsteidam since the commencement of the year 1804, shewing also the respective standards and weights of those places compared to the English standard and weights. — The quotations at Paris, 1 am sorry to say, I find it impossible to procure here for any length of time back ; but I have made the enquiry by letter in France, and hope to be soon enabled to transmit that information to you, together with the prices of Corn during the same period. With respect to an agio upon Gold against Silver, I find it regularly quoted at Paris at from 15 to 25 centimes per Ct. (i. e. -±. a * per Ct.) At Hamburgh and Amsterdam there is no such established differ- ence : but it may perhaps be worth your notice, that in the latter place the principal Gold coin, viz. the ducats, intrinsically worth guild. 5. 5. stiv. sell at the rate of g. 5. 12 a 14 stiv. The rate of such agio at Paris, prior to 1785, I have not yet suc- ceeded in ascertaining ; but the difference produced by the coinage of that year in the Louis d'or was, I understand, exactly in the propor- tion of 30 to 32, i. e. 32 Louis were coined in 1/85 out of a marc of Gold of 22 carats purity, which before that year was coined into 30 Louis. There is no difference of value between the Gold coins prior and subsequent to 1803. I also take the liberty of annexing a Statement of the present va- lue of Gold and Silver at the said places of Hamburgh, Amsterdam, and Paris, in English money at the current rates of exchange, and for the English standard and weight j which may perhaps be useful i'cr occasional reference, or for a comparison with similar calculations already before you. Pall Mall, 14th March 1810. I have the honour to be, Sir, Francis Horner, Esq. Your most obedient Servant, Chairman of Bullion Committee, J, L. GreJ'u/ke. House of Commons. ACCOUNTS. 171] No. LVI. Prices at HAMBURGH and AMSTERDAM. HAMBURGH. AMSTERDAM. GOLD. SILVER. GOLD. SILVER. lowest lowest lowest lowest price. highest price. highest. price. highest. Advance on

' s - The reports here of the silver coins vary considerably, and have undergone several depreciations of late years. Palermo. Fifteen to one, per assays. America. Fifteen to one, very nearly, per regulations, without al- lowance for remedy. 15 j°A to one, per assays. ACCOUNTS. [73] ► No. LIX. — (continued.) Iktkinsic Par of Exchange between England and Amsterdam, Rotter, dam, Hamburgh, Paris, Genoa, Leghorn, Naples, Lisbon, Cadiz, and Venice. — By Dr. Kelly. Amsterdam \ Banco * J Amsterdam 1 Currency J Rotterdam Hamburgh 1 Banco f J Paris, old Coins. By Mint Regulations. In Gold. d. 35 11,6 Flem 37 5 guil. stiv. 11 4,5 s. d. 34 3,3 Flem. s. den. [25 9 1 1 Paris, new Coins. (25 10 )i or ( -25 fr. 21 10 6 Genoa - - Leghorn - Naples Lisbon Cadiz - - Venice - - pence sterling 45,52 49,1 42,57 67,4 37,3 lire piccole 46,06 In Silver. s. d. 36 7,5 Flem 38 1 guil. st. 11 8,5 s. d. 35 1 Flem liv. i. den. 25 1 9 25 9 or 24 fr. 73 cents. pence sterling 46 46,67 43,5 69,4 39,22 ire piccole 47,5 Bv Assays. In Gold. a. 35 10,5 Flem 37 3,75 guil. st. 1 1 3,8 "s. d. S4 1,4 Flem. liv. s. den. 25 10 3 25 11 6 or 25 fr. 26 cents pence sterling 45,5 49,1 43 07,4 37,16 lire piccole 4C,:;« reckoning the sequin at 22 lire. In Silver. *. d. 99 2 Flem. 38 7,75 guil. st. 11 11,8 s. d. 35 1 Flem. liv. s. den. 25 10 3 25 4 5 or 24 fr. 91 cents pence sterling 45,92 For one Pound sterling. Do. Do. Do. 46,25 41,3 69,5 39 lire piccole 48,97 in old coin 57,3 Do. Do. Do. For the pezza. Do. For the ducat. For the milree. For the dollar of exchange. For the Pound sterling. • Reckoning the Gold ducat at 5 guilders 5 stivers', and the Bank agio at 4 per cent, f Reckoning the ducat of Gold at G maiks Banco, and the Bank agio at 23 per cent, but these data are subject to Variation, as ill Amsterdam. w [74] ACCOUNTS. No LX. The Price of GOLD and Rate of Exchange at Hamburgh, on the first Tost Day in every Month. Gold. Exchange. 1809 - January - 103 I - - 30'S. February - 103| - - 30/. March - 104 - - 29/11. April - 104 - - 29/4. May - 103 - - 29/. June - 104 1 104i . - 2& f . July . - - 27 10. August . 104| - - 28/1. ' September ■ - 104 - - 28/1. October - 101* - - 27 8. November - 101 V - - 27/8. December - 10li - - 27/8. 1810 - January . iooi . - 28'. February - loo.;- - - 28/. • March - ioo| - - 28 '3. April - 101 - 28/11. The Gold is quoted in stivers banco per Jucat, which, at par g6 stivers banco. No. LXL AVERAGE of EXCHANGE, New York, on Great Britain. MONTHS. 1804. 1805. 1806. 1807. 1808. January - 103 ml 96\ 97\ 102* February 1034} 99 9H &H ]03 March - - 1021 98 99 99 103| April 103| 9H 1001 98 107 May 103 . 98 par 98 108 June 102 \ 95 par 98 106| July - 102| 95 99 971 106 August - - 102 95 98* 96i 106 September 102 971 par 97 10f) October - - 102 98 99h 98£ 106 November 10U 99 99 par 107 December par 98 9H 102 110 Exchange at Boston in I6O9. February - - March - April - June - - ' - August * September - October, November, December 1810. January - 109 a 9X 109 104 101 102* a" 3 par par a 98 96 a 97 ACCOUNTS. [75] No. LXII.— EXTRACT from P.ook, entitled, " The Massachusetts Regis- ter and United States Calendar, tor the Year of our Lord 1808." A TABLE of the Value and Weight of COINS, as they pass in the re- spective States of the Union, with their Sterling and Federal Value. -a ■~ n — a In Great Britain. 111 . 2 S 3 rt P- Cj i 17 6 1 c2 tt " ~ £. s d I 15 u CJ 5 1 1 d. 9 Feder. Value. English -I Guinea J -a 5 6 £.s. l 1 d. i; i s.d. 8 J8 » v £ J2 1 Q Q U S p. 4. 6.6. 7- French "J Louis J 5 5 1 i 7 A 1160 1 14 6 I 1 50. 4. 6 0. 0. Johannes IS 03 12 4 16 6 8 6 4 01. 6. 0. 0.0. Half jo- 1 hannes J 9 Oil 16 2 8 3 4 3 2 0. 8. 0. 0. 0. 1 Moidore 6 181 7 1 16 2 8 2 5 1 8 op. 6 0. 0. 0. Doubloon 16 213 6 4 8 5 16 ."> 12 6 3 10 01. 4. 9. 3. 3. Spanish 1 Pistole J 4 fjo 16 6 1 2 1 9 I 8 18 OO. 3. 7- 7- 3- French ") Pistole J 4 4 16 1 2 1 8 1 7 6 017 60 3. 6. 6.7. French 1 Crown j 19 00 5 6 ?j 8 9 8 3 00. 1. 1.0. 0. Spanish 1 Dollar J i; 60 4 6 6 o 8 7 6 4 SO. 1 . 0. 0. 0. English 1 Shilling/ Pistareen 3 18J0 1 (J 1 4 l 9 I 8 P * 00. 0. 2. 2. 2. 3 ii|o 10; 1 2 o 170 16 |o 1 1 lo. 0. 2. 0. 0. All other Gold and Silver Coins of equal fineness are valued by weight. RULES for reducing CURRENCIES. 2d, To reduce New York and North Carolina into New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont and Virginia, from the sum given, deduct \xh thereof. Into Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland, from the sum given, deduct l/l6th thereof. Into South Carolina and Georgia, to the sum given, add 1 6th and then take half of the whole. 3d. To reduce Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland, into New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Ver- mont, and Virginia, from the sum given, deduct l/6ih thereof. Into Stw York and North Carolina, to the sum given, add 1/I5th thereof. Into South Carolina and Georgia, multiply by 3 and l/Qth and divide the product by 5, or multipiy by 28 and divide by 45. 4ih, To. reduce I outh Carolina and Georgia m:o New Hampshire, Mae- [K2] [76] ACCOUNTS. Connecticut, and Virginia, to the sum sachusetts, Rhode Island, given add 2/71 hs thereof. Into Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland, multiply the given sum by 45 and divide by 28. Jnto New York and North Carolina, from the given sum subtract l/7th and double the remainder. No. LXIII. EXTRACTS from Book entitled, " The Massachusetts Register and United States Calendar for the Year of our Lord 1808." TABLE for receiving and paying the Gold Coins of France, Spain, and the Dominions of Spain, of their present Standard, according to the Act of Congress regulating Foreign Coins [passed the pth Feb. 1793] j calculated for the use of the Bank of the United States. Grains. Cents. Grains. Cents Grains. Cents. 1 - - 3 9 - -33 17 - - 62 2 - - 7 10 - - 36 18 - -66 3 - - 11 11 - -40 19 - -69 4 - - 14 12 - -44 20 - -73 5 - - 18 13 - -47 21 • -76 6 - - 28 14 - - 51 22 - - 80 7 - - 25 15 - - 55 23 - - 84 8 - - 29 16 - I -5S Dwts. Dolls. Cts. Dwts. DotLs. Cts. Dwts. Dolls. Cts. 1 - - 87 IS ^15 -76 35-30 - 66 2 - 1 - /5 19-16 - 64 36-31 - 53 3 - 2 - 03 20. 20 - 1 7 - 52 37-32 - 41 4- 3 - 50 21-18 - 39 38-33 - 28 5 - 4 - 38 22-19 - 2 7 39-34 - 16 e- 5 - 25 23 -20 - 14 40. 40 - 35 - 8 7- 6 - 13 24 - 21 - 2 41-35 - 91 8 - 7 - 1 25-21 - 9° 42-36 - 79 9- 7 - 88 26 - 22 - 77 43-37 - 66 JO. lO- 8 - 76 27-23 - < 5 44-38 - 54 ll - 9 - 63 28 - 24 - 52 45-39 - 41 12- 10 - 51 29-25 - 40 46-40 - 29 13 - 11 - 94 30 30 - 26 - 28 47-41 - 17 14 - 12 - 26 31-27 - 15 48 - 42 - 4 \5 - 13 - 14 32 - 28 - 3 4Q - 42 - 92 16- 14 - 1 33 - 28 - 50. 50 - 43 - '79 17- 14 - 80 34-29 - r 3 N. B. The Number of Houses in Philadelphia and its Suburbs is 13,401 ; estimating Eight Persons at each House, it gives a Popu- lation of 107,688. In 1749, the Number of Houses was 6,207, In 1/83, 6,000. In February 1806, New York City contained 57,770 Inhabitants, ACCOUNTS. [77] No. LX1TL (continued.) TABLE for receiving an- 1 paying the Gold Coins of Great Britain and Portugal* of their present Standard, according to the Act of Congress, regulating Foreign Coins [parsed the 9th February 1793] carefully revised. Grams. Cons. Grains. Cents. Grata* Cents. 1 - - 3 9 - - 33 \7 - - 63 2 - - 7 JO - - 37 18 - - 67 3 - - 11 !1 - - 40 1Q - - 70 4 - - 14 12 - - 44 20 - - 74 5 - - IS J 13 - - 48 21 - - 78 6 - - 22 14 - - 51 22 - - 81 7 - - 15 1 5 - - 55 23 - - 85 8 - - 29 io - - 59 — - - — Dwt. Doll*. Cts. Dwt. Dolls. Cts. Dwt. Dolls. Cts. Dvvts. Dolls. Cts. 1 - 0-89 14- 12 - 44 27 - 24 - 00 40. 40 - 35 - 55 2 - 1 - 78 15-13-33 28 - 24 - 80 41-36- 44 3 - 2-07 16 - 14 - 22 29 - 25 - 78 42 - 37 - 33 4 - 3 - 55 17 - 15 - 11 30. 30 - 26 - 6/ 43 - 38 - 22 5 - 4-44 18 • 16 - 00 31 - 2" - 55 44 - 39 - 1 1 6 - 5-33 I9-IO- 89 32 - 26 44 45-40-00 7 - 6-22 20. 20 - 1 7 - 78 33 - 2() - 33 46 - 40 - 80 8 - 7-11 21 - 18 - 07 34 - 30 - 22 47 - 4 1 - 78 9.8- 00 22 - 19 - 55 35-31 - 11 48-42 0/ 10. 10- 8 - 89 To ■ 20 - 4 1 36 - 32 - 00 4() - 43 - 55 11 - 9-78 24 21 - 33 37 - 32 - 80 50. 50 - 44 - 44 12- 10- 67 25 22 - 11 3S -33-78 13 - 11 - 55 20 - 23 - 11 39 . 34 - (JJ ■ By Law of the United States, April 10, 180S, Gold Coins of Grear Britain and Portugal aru estimated at the weig-ln of '27 Grains to a Dollar; and those of Ranee and Spain at the weight ot 273 per Dollar. No. LX1V. A TABLE of the Weight and Value of the American COINS. NAMES. Dwts. Grs. Dell--. Cents. Eagle 1 1 6 10 U> Half Eagle 5 15 5 00 Quarter Eagle - 2 IP 1 / 2 50 Cn»wn 18 17 1 JO Dollar 17 7 1 00 Half Dollar 8 16 50 Quarter Dollar - 4 8 25 Dime 1 18 10 Half Dime 21 5 [78] ACCOUNTS. No. LXV. The EXCHANGE by the last advices from Gothenburg, dated the 4th May, and received the 12th Idem, was at - Rx 5. 32. And by the previous, dated the 30lh April, and received the 5th May, was at .... . 5. 33. The Par is supposed to be Rx. 4. 28. p. £. at 5. 32. 4 . 28 : 1 . 4 : : 100 : 48 48 Jp2 52 28 100 at 5. 33. < r 4.: 48 192 28 . 220 18 : 1 . 5 : : 100 : 48 53 100 220 )5,200(23fp'S ' . 800 V 140 ) 5,300 (24. p'§ ' . 900 v .20 COURS E of EXCHANGE in Sweden during the Year I8O9. Jan. 4 . Rx.4 .20 July 3 - Rx.4 .25 18 _ 4 .21 10 - 4 .26 20 _ 4 .21 17 - 4 .28 23 - 4 .22 21 - 4 .29 Feb 10 & - 11 4 .22 24 - 4 .29.31 22 . 4 .22 28 - 4 •29 March 7 4 .20i August 7 - 4 .30 10 - 4 .20 11 - 4 .29 24 _ 4 .21 18 - 4 .32 April 4 . 4 . 26 23 - 4 .32 21 . 4 .28 27 - 4 .31 May 4 - 4 .28.29 Sept. 4 - 4 .32 5 _ 4 .30 8 - 4 .34 > 4 .29 11 - 4 .33' — . 4 .27 15 - 4 .32 8 _ 4 .30 18 - 4 .34 9 - 4 .30 19 - 4 .32 10 . 4 .27 20 - 4 .33 12 . 4 .28 October 2 - 4 .32 15 _ 4 .27 13 - 4 .32 24 . 4 .24 20 - 4 .30 26 _ 4 .28 Nov. 4 - 4 •29 29 . 4 .28.30 10 - 4 .30 31 . 4 .26 13 4 .29 June 2 . 4 .25\ 27 - 4 .31 5 . 4 .25 Dec. 4 - 4 .32 16 - 4 .26 15 - 4 • 37 26 . 4 .25.28 18 - 4 .38 28 • 4 .24|- 22 - 4 .39 ACCOUNTS. [79] 5^ o" la ft o c 00 | a ~f R o a U) £ »» "3 a G h2 A C O G £> 3 Q T3 o G CO ,_; _~ > X s -J Q *5 6 '— Z o c c § G CTj Ol X X X _ .+ -i-t-,|M - .+ H|nH« OCiXXCiOOOOOCjOi r s-| cc 1 Afi Oj Oj O O) Oi O Cl C) Ci C) 00 K ^009- •h - ocTo~0)a> £ fei ~< O O Ol Ol Oi O C) O) O) C) Oi CD ' 1 J 1 /S -o McN-OOOOOOOOO L Q fS;= 1 oS m _ _ - ~|-+-' + ~'-*HC«-«l«* -00-0-0 0' !-a 21 \m CO ^ « « ^ fl N M !N .^ ?> -i | P3 ■H|rii->|Ww|w -laHM He* -,-+-13 — — CS CN — — — CD < -a 1 . Q - 3^:r M ? ) n co d n (N i\ c ■- S3 ,. 9 , S 5 h 1 2 2 5 3 J* 2 2 3 21 (80] Accomtfrs. No. LXVII. DUBLIN, May l6tb, 1810. Course of Exchange on London. 7| . 8. per cent. Robert Deer/. No. LXVIII. A TABLE of (he Course of EXCHANGE between Belfast and London, and also of the Exchange between Belfast and Dub- lin, commencing from and after the ist January 1804, and con- tinued every 'Change day until the 1st January 1810, as the same was collected and compiled from the publication of Exchanges in the Belfast Newspapers ; no other Account having been kept, nor reference whereon to depend. 1804. Date. On London. Dublin. January 3 6 HI 6 5| 10 b ill 13 H hi 17 5 . 51 hi 20 - _ _ n i 24 5| • 5\ hi 27 6.6| in 31 6| hi February 3 64 . 6j ll| 7 61 11 10 6\.7 7\ ■ 7| 101 14 9 . 17 - - - 9\ 20 _ . - J l-i 24 _ _ . 11 27 - - - 101 March 2 7\ ■ n 101 6 10* 9 . _ - 10 13 61 • 7\ 6| . 6\ 10 16 9l 20 6 10 23 — — 27 6] io| 30 61 . 63 1804 — (continued / Date. On London. Dublin. April 3 6 1 • 6| 10J 6 6 . 61 10 6 10| 13 5\ . 6 i7 6 . 6± 10 20 6i . 7 10! 23 7 • 7i 10 27 — 30 - - - 9! May 4 g H-7 91 11 — 14 ... 9! 18 — — 22 51 • 61 — 25 6 . 6j 8£ 29 — June 1 - - - 7\ 5 6 7 8 6 . 6.1 \2 > - - 61 15 6* 6! 19 6\ . 6§ 7 22 6§ 61 25 61 ' 61 5| 29 - - - 51 ACCOUNTS. [si; No. LXVIII. continued. — Course of Exchange betwegd Belfast aiu! London, and between Belfast and Dublin. 1804— continued, 1804— continued. (continued) [82] ACCOUNTS. No. LXVIII. continued. — Course of Exchange between Belfast and London, and between Belfast and Dublin. 1S05 — continued. Date. On London. On Dublin. Mar. 26 5 — 29 51 — April 2 _ — 5 - ft 9 «i ft 12 — — 16 5| ft 19 ^ — 23 6 6 26 61 — 30 6 6 May 3 6 6 7 ft — 10 ft 5 1 14 — 37 ft — 20 ft — 24 6f 6 28 ft 31 7 June 4 7 11 - - - 51 14 • — — 18 n 41 21 — — 25 *— — 28 — — July 2 5 •— z 9 12 ~~ ~ 16 — 51 1.0 7 23 — — ■ 26 61 — 30 n 6 Date. On London. On Dublin.- Aug. 2 - - _ 5 T 6 — - — 9 _ - - H 13 7 6 16 0f 6 20 — 23 — — 27 ft ft 31 — — Sept. 3 ft ft • 7 H — 10 — — 14 — — • 17 — — 21 I' ..;.:. 6 24 8 H 28 71 5 Oct. 1 — — 4 — — 8 8 4y 11 — — 15 — — 18 — — 22 S 4| 25 — 29 7! 4 Nov. 1 , 5 8 12 - - - H _ . H 15 - r - H 19. — . 22 8 — 26 — — 29 \i — Dec. 3 6 — — 10 8 — (continued) ACCOUNTS. [83] No, LXVIII. continued. — Course of Exchange between Belfast and London, and between Belfast and Dublin. 1805 — continued. Date. On London. Oa Dublin. Dec. 13 — — 1/ — — 20 — — 24 - 4 27 — — 31 — 1806. 81 H 180<5 — continued. [L2] Date. On London. On Dublin April 15 — — 18 — — 22 — — 25 - . - 31 • 3J 29 — May 2 81 n 6 8| 3 i 9 — —1 13 — — 16 H 21 . 3 20 23 8f • 9 3 27 — - 30 — — June 3 6 10 9 • 91 3 . 3| 13 — — 17 — — 20 8|- • 9 — 24 - - . 8* ao — July 1 — __ 4 81 • 9 Sf. 3| 1 8 8 . 8| 3} . 4i 11 7\ • 8 15 — — 19 - - . 4 l • ±\ 22 8 4 2 26 — — 29 7{ — Aug. l n 5 Gi . 7 H ■ H 6 6; . 01 n . si 12 5} . 6" 6 .6| 15 — 19 6 — 22 6 . 6± 6 . 6{ (eonfi«K«f) [84] ACCOUNTS. No. LXVI1I. continued- — Course of Exchange between Belfast and London, and between Belfast and Dublin. 1 806 — {continut fc 1 807. Da:e. On London. Oi^ Dublin. Date. On London. 1 On Dublin. Aug. 26 6] . 6\ 5i Jan. 2 8 4 . 4 29 6\ . 7 5\ . 5\ 6 7| • 8 — 9 71 — Sept. 2 o} . 7 5 \ • 5 ] 13 7h 3; . 4 6 — — 17 7± 4 . 4 t 9 — — 20 H — 12 71 ■ 71 — 24 7\ ■ 8 — 16 7i 5 . 5\ 27 71 — *P 8 . 8~f 4| . 5 31 - . . 4 l ■ H 23 — 26 84- 4 . cc. 2 7! • 8 4 . 4} 17 — 5 7i — 21 — — 8 8 — 24 — _._ 12 8 . 84 — 28 . . _ u 35 7v • *- ; — 1.9 8' . 8] ft May - . . . 3 i 23 - - - 4 5 — — 27 — — 8 — — 30 71 ■ 8 , 4 • 4 I 12 — — (continued ACCOUNTS. [85] No. LXVIII. continued.— Course of Exchange between Belfast and London, and between Belfast and Dublin. L807 — continued. Date. On London. On Dublin. May 15 — — 19 — — 23 7} — 26 3 ; 30 — — June - . 3 ' 5 9 12 16 19 - - - J ' 8 2 - 8| — 23 81 3 26 8 *4 30 71 July 3 — 7 _ _ . 3 10 — — 14 / l 3 : 1/ - - - 3! .'4 21 - - 21 — — 17 — — 25 8 2 20 3 3| 28 s i — 24 27 § z Aug. l 8 H 31 6 i — 4 H 3 i 8 0| H ■ Nov. 3 - . . 3i 11 7 7 6 .15 7i 3| 10 — — 1 18 1 -I 13 — ■ — 22 — 17 61- — 25 H 3 20 ft — 29 3* 23 2 3 - 27 — — Sept. 1 71 n 30 5 3 5 7£ — 8 — -ui Dec. 1 G\ Iff 12 . - . 3f 5 -- — 15 — ! 8 ~ . . Nothing dona. 19 T\ 3 12 6:1 Do. - 22 — . - — 15 Do. 26 4 / — 19 . - - Do. 29 . . . 3 1 22 7 Do. 26 9f H Oct. 3 - - - 3 29 7 The foregoing Rates of Exchange of Belfast on London, and Bel- fast on Dublin, are computed for the payment in Gold, and the quotations are understood for Bills on London at 21 days sight, and Bills on Dublin at 6l days sight 3 such Bills as have a longer or a shorter time on Dublin, as the case may be, take or give Interest at six per cent. And it is to be observed that the Exchange on London indicates Premium, while that on Dublin indicates Discount. Robt. Deey, \ Exchange Brokers, Wm, Deey, J Dublin. ACCOUNTS. [89] No. LXIX. STATEMENT of Money isssoed by the Paymasters General to the under-mentioned Persons, for the Purchase of Dollars, &c. 1804. £. s. d. Aug. 17. Paid Daniel Bailey, Esq. in part of a War- rant of J 7th August 1 804, for .£.200,000. for the purchase of Silver Bullion for the Public Service, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury - 100,000 Sept. 12. Paid Do. to complete a Warrant of 17th August 1804, for £.200,000. far the purchase of Do. for Do,, without De- duction and without Do., &c. - 100,000 1805. Mar. 14. Paid William Mitchell, Esq. in part of a Warrant of 13th March 1805, for .£.300,000. for the purchase of Dollars for the Public Service, without De- duction and without Do., &c. - 51,327 12 8 26. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant of 13th March 1805, for £300 000. for Do. Do., without Deduction, and with- out Account, &c. - 44,326 6 8 April 2. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant, 13th March i805, for £.300,000. for Do. Do., withoutDeduction and without Account, &c 42,62(5 8 1 4. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant, dated 13th March 1S05, for £. 300,000. for Do. Do. .withoutDeduction and with- out Account, &rc. - - - 50,401 13 10 8. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant, of 13th March 1805, fur £.300,000. for Do. Do., without Deduction and with- out Account, &c. - - - 42,810 4 6 18. Paid Do. to complete a Warrant of 13th March 1805, for f.300,000. for Do. Do., without Deduction and without Ac- count, &c. Ike. - - - 63,507 14 3 — Paid Do. in part of £ .400,000. for which a Warrant is to be granted, for the pur- chase of Dollars for the service of Gov 1 per Treasury Letter, 17th April 1805 26,108 10 7 25. Paid Do. in further part of £.400,000. for which a Warrant is to be granted, for the purchase of Dollars for the lublic Service, per Treasury Letter of 24 lb April 1805 .... 53,970 6 4 [m] {continued) [90] ACCOUNTS. No. LXIX. continued. — Statement of Money issued, &c. 54,495 10 4 39/246 18 9 42,595 1 Q 23,602 16 4 56,77^ 2 5 28,382 13 8 1805. I- s. d. May 4. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant for £.400,000. for the purchase of Dollars for the Public Service, without Deduc- tion and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury - 27,202 IS 8. Paid Do. in further part of a Warrant of 18thAprill805, for £.400,000. tor the purchase of Dollars for the Public Ser- vice, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury ... 13. Paid Do. in further part of Do. Warrant June 14. Paid Do. in further part of Do. Do. - 18. Paid Do. in further part of Do. Do. - 20. Paid Do. in further part of Do. Do. - 24. Paid Do. in further part of Do. Do. - July 3. Paid William Mitchell, Esq. in further part of a Warrant, 18th April 1805, for /. 400,000. for (he purchase of Dollars for the Public Service, without Deduc- tion and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury - 42 : 5S7 8 7 5. Paid Do. to complete Do. Warrant Do. - 5,033 4 3 — Paid Do. for the purchase of Dollars for the Public Service, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury, per Treasury Letter, 5th July 1805 - 30,448 13 11, 25. Paid Do. for the purchase of Dollars for the Service of Government, per Treasury Letter, 25th July 1S05 - - 2/,228 12 3 1807. June 3. Paid George Ward, Esq. on acount of Bar Silver, purchased for the Service of Go- vernment, per Treasury Letter, 3d June 1807 50,000 22. Paid Do. for the purchase of Bar Silver for the use of Government, per Trea- sury Letter, 20th June 1807 - 100,000 July 10. Paid Do. for the purchase of Dollars for the Service of Government, per Trea- sury Letter, 9th July - - 121,538 16 11 Mar. 14. Paid Thomas Reid, Esq. in re-payment of Dollars supplied for His Majesty's Ser- (continued) ACCOUNTS. [ 91 ] No. LXIX. continued. — Statement of Money issued, &c. £> l SO". vice, as follows, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as he may be required to render to His Ma- jesty or the Commissioners of the Trea- sury, viz. value 1,400,000 Dollars, at the rate of 866 oz. for 1,000 Dollars, being 1,212,400 oz. at 5s. 6d. per oz. - - £.333,410 O Deduct Premium of Insurance off. 3. 3s. percent. - £.10,502 8 3 Carriage from Ports- mouth to London, at -5^ per cent. - - 625 2 10§ 11,12/ 11 If •322,282 8 10-' Mar. 10. Paid Do. for the value of 1,730,000 Dol- lars at the rate of 45. "jd. per Dollar, .£.396,458. 6s. 8d. supplied for His Ma- jesty's Service, and for Fees £.6. ?s. without Deduction and without Ac- count, other than such as he may be required to render to His Majesty or the Commissioners of the Treasury - 396,464 1 3 8 Aug. 25. Paid by George Ward, Esq. for Bar Silver purchased by him for the use of Go- vernment, without Deduction - 33,312 9 Oct. 9. Paid Messrs. Thomas Reid and Partners, for 450,000 Dollars delivered by them at Jamaica, to Lieut. Gen. Sir Eyre Coote, for the use of Government, £. 103,920. and for Fees £.6. ?s. with- out Deduction - 103,926 7 O 23. Paid Thomas Reid, Esq. in re-payment of Dollars supplied for the Service of Gov* 429,7/1 13 1 1 1808. May 23. Paid Wm. Gordon, Esq. to John Mur- phy, Esq. for the Balance due to Tlios. Reid and Partners, and the said John Murphy, for 9OO 000 Dollars in Gold and Silver, delivered by them to Sir Eyre Coote, at Jamaica, for the Mili- tary Service, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as [m 2] {continued) [9iJ ACCOUNTS. No. LXiX. continued. — Statement . of Money issued, &c. 1S08. may be required to be rendered to His Majesty or the Commissioners of the Treasury 5,559 2 1J Mar, 5. Paid Mr. Wm. Gordon, to John Murphy, Merchant, on account of the value of Doubloons delivered by him for the use of the Government at Jamaica, without Deduction and without Account, other than such as he may be required to ren- der to His Majesty or the Commissioners of the Treasury - 52,975 2 S June 14. Paid Thomas Reid, Esq. for the purchase of Dollars, in part of £. 50,000. ordered, per Treasury Letter of 14th June 1 SOS 25,000 O 15. Paid Do. for Do. to complete Do. ordered per Do. 25,000 O ■ — Paid Wm. Gordon, Esq. for John Mur- phy, Esq. for the purchase of Do. per Do. of Do. date - - - 50,000 O 23. Paid Do. for Do. for the purchase of Do. per Do. of 22d June 1808 - - S7,000 O 30. Paid Do. for Do. for the purchase of Do. per Do. of 30th Do. - - - 234,168 3 1 — Paid Messrs. T. Reid and Co. for the pur- chase of Do. per Do. of Do. date - 153,280 10- Sept. 15. Paid Messrs. Taylor and Hughan in re- payment of the value of Dollars de- livered by them, at Gibraltar, for the use of Government, £.4,551. 15s. and for Fees £..3. 8s. without Deduction and without Account, other than such as they may be required to render to the Commissioners of the Treasury, per Treasury Warrant - 4,555 3 O I8O9. July 3. Paid Messrs. Robert Taylor and Co. for Dollars, delivered by them at Jamaica, for His Majesty's Service, without De- duction 48,4p4 1 3 Aug. 5. Paid Do. for Do. - Do. - Do. - 21,625 O Nov. 17. Paid Do. for Do. - Do. - - - 13,244 18 8 1810. Jan. 23. Paid Do. for the value of Dollars delivered by them to Commissary Drennan, at Jamaica, the 30th September I8O9, on account of Government, £.773. lis. and for Fees £.3. 35. without Deduction 77® *4 O {continued) ACCOUNTS. [93] No. LXIX. continued. — Statement of Money issued, &c. 1810. £. $. d. Mar. 5. Paid Mr. William Gordon, to John Mur- phy, Merchant, being on account of the value of 202,783 Dollars, to be delivered by him, for the use of the Government at Jamaica, without De- duction and without Account, other than such as he may be required So »J o CO m s-. III 8 g § -H p.- *« £ ►« *"" i^ «3 0> r>- r- o <£> bo O w S I* P Mediterranean - Commissariat department - - 1,000 Hon. Will. Wyndham - envoy at Flo- O rence - Relief of emigrants - 3,900 -5 Sir Thos. Trigge, K. B. - lieut. gov. S< at Gibraltar - Building a victualling store 5,629 5 10 Hon. H. E. Fox - Do. Do. Do. Do. 8,500 a Hugh Elliot - minister at Naples Relief of emigrants - 8,000 u Geo. Missct - Brit, resident in Egypt Expenses of his mission 2,200 JS Ernest Misset - Do. Do. 1,000 ca Sir Alex. J. Ball - gov. at Malta Public services - 139,750 O E. F. Chapman - - Malta Purchase of corn for Malta 20,000 O Geo. Burgmann - dep. commis. Medit. Commissariat department - 172,184 9 1 ..Edward Stanley - consul at Trieste Relief of emigrants - Relief of emigrants - 154 10 426,062 4 11 •g ^ ("Hon. Arthur Paget, envoy at Vienna 70S IS 2 «-: c"J *' orc * R - S - P'tzgerald, envoy at Lisbon Do. 1,419 13 1 § 5 \ Colonel Sontag .... Pay of Dutch officers Public services Secretary's salary 19,042 16 6 O W (j&rnstein and Eokcles - - Vienna 151,550 172,716 7 9 "Geo. Beckwith - gov. of St. Vincents 52 3 Edward Corbett - agfEtt for the af- Pay for himself arid per- } sons in his department ^ 460 fairs of St. DJomingo - W. L. Whitfield - dep. agent - De. - Do. Do. 450 ■9 Lord Lavington - lieut.gov. Leeward Island, - Hire of vessels, contingen- ) cies, &c. - - -J 1,07 J 10 J5<^ Brig. Gen. Sir Geo. Prevost - Jieut. « gov. of St. Lucia - Contingencies - 1,552 > Abram Chas. Adye - pres. Of Grenada Secretary's salary [0 James Campbell - pres. of Tobago Hireoi vessels, contingen- ? cies, &C - - -$ i;i o Lord Seaforth - gov. at Barbadoes Secretary's salary 151 9 2 John Ince - pres. at - Do. - 1 - - Do. 15. ■ 10 — ■ - Curricdfurward - 12 2 t>] [981 ACCOUNTS. No. LXX.— (A 1.) continued. 1805. From Bv whom drawn. Service. drawn. £. s. d. Brought forward 4,280 12 2 „. fW. W. Bentinck, gov. of St. Vincents Secretary's salary 300 8 10£ 1 John Leach Panter - sec. to selected West India commissioners - Expenses of the commission 6,100 g Thos. Hislop - lieut. gov. of Trinidad Defence of the island 16,344 2 4 • John Rutherford, surv. gen. Trinidad Supplies to the settlers, ? and for surveys - - \ 210 1 Major Gen. G. Nugent - lieut. gov. of Jamaica - Allowance for barracks,? staff, &c. $ 118,931 12 8 *j Allan Dalzell - acting commis. gen. Windward and Leeward Islands - Commissariat department 29,600 L John Glasfurd - commis. gen. - Do. - - Do. - - 989,785 12 9 1165552 8 9£ "Major Gen. John Despard - pres. at . Cape Breton - Hire of a vessel, &c. 653 16 8§ «a Sir John Wentworth, Bart. - lieut. gov. of Nova Scotia - Mr. D'Anseville'spension, ) &c. S 124 19 3 1 Edmund Fanning - lieut. gov. Prince ■S Edward's Island • Contingencies - 350 n Henry Tucker - pres. at Bermuda Military expenditure 3,323 6 8 " Lieut. Col. Gordon - dep. superin- 1 tendant Honduras - Purchase of provisions 914 11 ^ Col. Thos. Barrow - superintendant c 3 j at Do. - Do. - &c. 4,530 16 £ Thos. Forth Winter - commissary, t Newfoundland - Commissariat department - 112 4 5} % Sir Erasmus Gower - opmmander in cf chief, Newfoundland - Salary of civil officers 156 Brig. Gen. J. W.Skerrett - command- ing at Do. - Expenses of a schooner 277 16 4 Chas. Cameron - gov. of the Bahamas Hire of vessels, commissa- 7 riat department, &c. - J 19,650 3 2§ Francis Gore - gov. of Bermuda Military expenditure 2,000 O 1 John Craigie - dep. commis. Canada Commissariat department - 20,983 18 1 jGco. Brinley - commis. gen. Halifax Do. Commissariat department - 21,746 14 7£ 74,824 7 4-| « 2 f Richard Lloyd - commis. at Goree *C '"3 j Capt. Will. Murray - commandant 1,589 11 8 <; £ j at Goree - Provisions for the garrison 449 7 2 v. » i Sam. Hamilton - assistant commissary °tS ! Goree - <3«8 I Hon. Fred. North - gov. at Ceylon Commissariat department, ) &c $ 1,002 6 Public services 218,505 9 6 221,546 14 4 . fLieut. Gen. Sir Eyre Coote, K. B. Ofl "g j Cork - Public services - 1,560 14 -? J Major Gen. Sir David Baird - Do. Articles for the sick on ) board the hospital ship ^ -1 350 hs ! John Murray - dep. commu. to the "® I forces under Sir David Baird - Provisions purchased 46S 10 10 2,376 4 10 Total Amount - - • .j ,102,355 O ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A. 1 .)— continued. 1806. [99] ACCOUNT of BILLS drawn on the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury, amounting to £.3,189,715. being the Sum advanced by the Pay- master General to the Bank of England for the Discharge thereof • from 25th December 1805, to the 25th December 180fj. By whom drawn. r*< ".Lieut. Col. James Fahy - commandant at Alderney - Lieut. Gen. A. Gordon - Kent. gov. at Jersey Maj. Gen. J. Doyle - commandant Guernsey - Rear Admiral D'Auvergue - com mandi »:-' at J ersey Col. G. W. Ramsay - commandant at Guernsey - Lieut. Gen. George Don - lieut.gov. of Jersey - Brig. Gen. P. Heron - commandant at Guernsey p is n 'Edward Stanley -consul at Trieste - Hon. William Wyndham - envoy at Florence - Rt. Hon. H. E. Fox - governor of Gibraltar - <, Ernest Misset - Brit res. in Egypt Hugh Elliot - minister at Naples Sir Alex. J. Ball, Bart., gov. at Malta Geo. Burgmann, commis. gen. Medit. Maj. Gen. Drummond - commandant at Gibraltar Pay of signal masters, &c. Subsist, of Jersey troop,") hire of vessels, &c. - J Public services Relief of emigrants - Public services Hire of vessels, &c. Public services 'Lieut- Col. George Smith - - Colonel Henry Clinton Sir Arthur Paget - envoy at Vienna Lord R S. Fitzgerald, envoy at Lisbon Hon. Henry Pierrepont - minister at Stockholm Viscount Strangford, envoy at Lisbon JohnSontag - colonel in the army <( Arnstein and Eskeles - Vienna - Jas. Gambier • consul gen. at Lisbon Brigadier General John Ramsay Edw. Thornton - min. at Hamburgh Thornton and Power - Hamburgh Parish and Co. „; f Geo Beckwith - gov. of St. Vincents ~ j Lord Lavington - lieut. gov. of the c J Leeward Islands - ~ I Jas. Campbell - president at Tobago g I Lord Seaforth - gov. of Barbadues Relief of emigrants -Do. - Buildingavictuallingstore, temporary habitat., &c. ] Expenses of his mission - Public services - - Do. Commissariat department Service of the garrison - Public services Do. Relief of emigrants Do. Public services Relief of emigrants Allowance to Dutch officers Public services Purchase of dollars Public services Do. Interest and commission on the negociation drawn by Mr ton, &c. Do. nmissionon") ion of bills ( *Ir. Thorn- f Secretary's salary - - Hire of vessels, secretary's ? salary, ice. - £ Secretary's salary - - Secretary's salary, and ) hire of vessels - £ Carried forward - JL. t. d. 304 19 5 4,032 1 6 6,455 6 8 5,300 2,992 4 S 4,568 11 10 2,908 11 S 26,56) 14 lO 137 15 3,000 15,124 14 [N2] 2,700 128,000 27,500 3^9,880 2 o 3 3,723 5 10 510,065 17 1 600 750 550 10 914 6 6 92,200 816 6 18,334 1 48,450 32,891 11 660 701,225 18 3, u 9 5,274 15 3 5,131 18 8 !K)7,799 8 ■I 152 H 12,031 10 o 46 1,735 16 5 13,965 6 <- [loo] ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A.. ' 1.) — continued. 1806. By whom drawn. John Leach Panter - sec to the West India commission of enquiry - T. Hislop - lieut. gov*, of 'Trinidad - Maj. Gen. Geo. Nugent - lieut.gov. of Jamaica - Allan Dalzell - acting commis. gea r Windward and Leeward Islands <; Geo. Metcalf - president at Dominica Rob. Mitchell - - president at Tobago John Balfour - -Do. Col. Fred. Maitland - gov. of Grenad; i Will. Whitmore - acting commis. gen Windward and Leeward Islands - j W. H. Robinson - commissary gen. I Jamaica - John Glasfurd - commis gen. Wind- ward and Leeward Islands f Maj. Gen. John D.espard - president of Cape Breton - Sir John Wentworth, Bart. - lieut. gov. of Nova Scotia - i Hen. Tucker - president of Bermuda Lieut. Col. Gabriel Gordon - dep.su- 1 1C rintendant at Honduras R. Edwards - secretary to Do. Thomas Forth Winter - commis. at Newfoundland - Sir Erasmus Gower - commanding ii chief. Newfoundland - Brig. Gen. J. W. Skerreit - command ing at Do. - Francis Gore - gov. of the Bermudas John Craigie - dep. commis. Canada Charles Cameron - governor of the Bahamas - Lieut. Col. A. M. K. Hamilton - su- perintendant at Honduras - Geo. Brinley - commis. gen. Halifax G.G.Ludlow - St. John's, New Brunswick - Rich. Lloyd - commanding at Goree c * | S. Hamilton - assist, commis. Goree jK I Hon. Fred. North - gov. of Ceylon £ "5 ! John Murray - dep. commis. gen. r5 j~ 4 Cape of Good Hope - - | Rt. Hon. T. Maitland - gov. of Ceylon o ° I JohnCloase • assist, commis. and pay- "j'o. I master in the ordnance service at O g (__ the Cape of Good Hope • Edw. Couche - dep. commis. gen. in i the expedition under gen. Simcoe I Lieut. Gen. Simcoe - commanding an expedition Brought forward Expenses of the commission Defenceof the island Allowance of barracks staff, and other military expenses Provisions, stores, and) other expenses of thel- forces there - ) Secretary's salary - - ontingencies Secretary's salary - - - ' Do. - Commissariat department Do. Do. Secretary's salary and hire ? of vessels - ) Mr. D'Anseville's pension Military expenditure Purchase of provisions, &c. His salary Pay of commissary and ? storekeeper's department ) Salary of civil officer's, \ clothing for volunteers, & c.J Expense of a schooner, &c. Military expenditure Do. - - Hire of vessels, commissa- ? rial department, &c. £ Secretary's salary - - Military expenditure Expense of prosecuting E. } Winslow, dep. paymaster \ Provisions, &c. furnished ") the garrison - J £ 13,965 6 7y 2,870 10 7 55,021 15 101 173,737 14 O 253 148 10 45 12 6 202 JO O 706,301 76,204 9 2 109,318 7 1 1,150,461 9 4£ 621 IS 107 10 O 664 18 6} 3,886 11 If 823 14 H 9,864 15 0" 66,703 15 4 29,716 10 7 Public service of the island Public services Military expenditure Public services Purchase of artillery horses Bat and forage money Total Amount 116 58,071 3 11 5 43 8 l i 1 72,333 18 Of 36 3,287 227,952 12 18 6 2 141,041 45,670 IS 11 8 3,091 421,080 4 200 1,212 12 1,412 12 3,189,715 ACCOUNTS. No. LXX.— (A. 1.) continued. lSOJ. [101] ACCOUNT of BILLS drawn on the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury, amounting to .2,124,800. being the Sum advanced by the Fay- master General to the Bank of England for the Discharge thereof 3 irom the 25th December 180§, to the 25th December I&07. By whom drawn. Service fi.icut. Gen. Geo. Don - lient. gov. of Fortifications, hire of ves- ) , Jersey - j sels, &C. $ Rear Admiral D'Auvergne - com- mandant at Jersey - Relief of emigrants, &c. - . Gen. P. HeroD - commandant a „ ^ *^ Guernsey - £'^ Brig. Gen. Sir John Doyle - com- c dani at Guernsey and Alderney 5 , ; B: ig. Gen. W, Robertson - command- er (. ant at Alderney 18,72: s. r. *i Edward Stanley - consul at Trieste Right Hon. H E. Fox - minister. Sicily - H. S. Blanckley - consul at Algiers George Burgmann - commissary gen liteTranean - Lieut. Gen. Sir Hew Dalrymple - com> mandant at Gibraltar - Sir Alexander J. Ball - gov.ot Malt: Hon. William Wyndham - envoy at Florence - Will. Drummond - ministerat Sicih •1. Ja;. Drummond - com- mandant at Gibraltar - Ernest Misset - resident in Egypt f Hon. Henry Pierrepont - minister at Stockholm - Alexander Straton - Do. Robert Adair - minister at Vienna Par^h'and Co.- merch.at Hamburgh Thornton & Power - Do. - Edw. Thornton - rr.in. at Hamburgh £ s Lord Hi tchinson •',' - Altona ... in 1 Strangfbrd - envoy at Lisbon James < ul at Lisbon - Rob. Hugh Kennedv - dep. commis. Continent - James Drummond - dep. commis. 01 its on the Continent - JohnSontag - colonel in the arm\ Public services - Do. - - - - Pay of signal masters re- J peating flags, 5,200 7,802 11 G G,T48 13 10 153 7 G 38,634 IS 7 Relief of emigrants 28 - Do. - ... Public services 1,000 Commissariat department - 201,595 3 Fortifications, &c. 3,275 10 ?3 Public services, civil go-) vernrnent - - $ 26,028 Relief of emigrants - - 2,593 Public services SOS, 792 Service of the garrison 1,000 Expences 01 his mission - 1,316 7 6 1 !| Public services 90 1,1 :s - Do. - - - 78,800 - Do. - - 85,719 1 <* Commission, &c. on 1 • ciation ol Bills drawn by / 333 12 •» Mr. Thornton - J Do. 501 16 ■l Public services - Da Dutch Officers 18,03(7 2 Rebel of emigrants, and ) hire of vessels - \ 1,879 1 It Hire of a vessel O [ssariat department - 9 1 - - 41 1 1 1 Allowance to Dutch • 1 ; 4 [ICHJ ACCOUNib. No. LXX. (A. l.)— continued. 1807. By whom drawn. |'Lord Lavington - licut. gov. of the Leeward Islands - Will. Whitmore - acting commis. gen Windward and Leeward Islands - Tho. Hislop - lieut. gov. of Trinidad Geo. Metcalf - president at Dominica Col. Fred. Maitland - gov. of Grenada Geo. Beckwith - gov. of St.Vincents Will. Woodley - president at Antigua John Balfour - president at Tobago Earle Harwood - barrack master at Curacao - Sam. Chollet - commis. gen., Wind- ward ami Leeward Islands - W. H. Robinson - commis. general, Jamaica - Henry Broughton - dep. commis. gen. Curacao - John Spooner - pres. at Barbadoes f Chas. Cameron - gov. of the Bahamas Lieut. Col. A. M.K.Hamilton - super intendant at Honduras - Brig. Gen. J. W. Skerret - command- ing at Newfoundland - Hon. Alex. Murray - late agent at Turk's Island - Thomas Forth Winter - commissary at Newfoundland - Sir John Wentworth - lieut. gov. of Nova Scotia - Francis Gore - gov. of Bermuda - Henry Tucker - pres. of Bermuda Maj. Gen. John Despard - president of (ape Breton' - George Brinley - commis. general, Halifax - John Hodgson - gov. iof Bermuda - John Craigie - deputy commis. gen., Canada - Adm. James Holloway - commanding at Newfoundland S. Hamilton - assist, commis. Goree John Murray • deputy commis. gen Cape of Good Hope - >n Right Hon. Tho. Maitland - gov. of I salary, Sec. • - ) Commissariat department - Chinese settlers at Trinidad Secretary's salary - Do. Expenses in settling the re- ) mainingCharibs,sec.sal. $ Secretary's salary - Do. - - Barrack department Commissariat department - Do. - - - Do. Secretary's salary Hire of vess. commissariat ) & engineer department $ His own, and secretary's) salary - - - ) Expenses of a schooner Hire of a vessel, &c. Pay of storekeeper's de- ) partment - - - ) Expense of embodied mili- } tia, &c. - - - ) Military expenditure - Do. - - Hire of a vessel, and «e- ) cretary's salary - - ) Commissariat department - Military expenditure Commissariat department - Salary of civil officers, &c. Public serv. of the island, \ purchase of provis., &c. J Commissariat department - Public services Commissariat department - - Do. - Public services Commissariat department - £. 1,174 s. 10 110,524 5,412 151 202 10 10 10 453 12 24 136 V 2,177 7 353,221 S 05 77,324 5 10* 20,119 202 2 10 9* 571,123 18 3* 29,659 12 1 620 856 19 1\ 241 7 4 ' 60 3 4 1,305 11 5 900 750 326 13 3 27,502 12,207 17 9 72,300 847 8 9 147,577 IS H 2,936 3 n 8,5,576 15 6 57,799 17 5 23,542 52 3 1,436 12 2,360 12 9 43,026 12 5 216,679 6 l'| 2,124,800 O ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A. I.)— continued. 1S08. [103] ACCOUNT of BILLS dravra on the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury, amounting to £.1,935, 767. being the Sum advanced by the Pay- master General to the Bank for the Discharge thereof; from the 25th Decem- ber 1807 to the 25th December 1808. By whom drawn. I Lieut. Gen. Geo. Don - lieut. gov. of Jersey - Rear Admiral D'Auvergne - com- manding; at Jersey - B 5 J Brig. Gen. William Robertson - com- "l.£ \ mandant at Alderney - jT^ Lieut. Gen. Sir John Doyle - com- mandant at Guernsey - 2J I Brig. Gen. J. Hatton, commandant at O (. Alderney - ("Ernest Misset - British res. in Egypt Edward Stanley - consul at Trieste Lieut. Col. M. Robinson - assistant barrack-master, Gibraltar - Augustus Granet - dep. commissary, Mediterranean - Geo. Burgmann - commis. gen. - Do Maj. gen. J. Drummond - command- ant at Gibraltar - 4 James Green - consul at Algiers - H. M«Donell - assistant commissary, Gibraltar - Sir Alexander J. Ball - gov. of Malta Will. Drummond - minister at Sicily Geo. Spiller - dep. commis. Madeira H. S. Blanckley - consul at Algiers Robert Ac air - minister at Vienna Edward Thornton - minister at Stockholm - Maj. Gen. B. Spencer - commanding in Spain - P-Ragay Brig. Gen. J. Sontag - Lord Strangford - envoy at Lisbon Will. Osborne Hamilton - lieut. gov at Heligoland - Service. Fortifications, hire of ves- sels, &c. Relief of emigrants Pay of signal master, &c. Fortifications, &c. Pay of signal master, &c. Expenses of his mission - Relief of emigrants Barrack department Commissariat department Do. Service of the garrison - Presents to native princes Commissariat department Expend, on account of the ) government of Malta J Sicilian subsidy & relief/ of emigrants J Commissariat department Contract of ports of) Bona, &c. Relief of emigrants Swedish subsidy, service} of Sir J. Moore's arniy> and of the Span, troops) Advances to Spanish Go- { vernment - - J Allowance to Dutch officers Do. Hire of a vessel, &c. Loan to the inhabitants of ? Heligoland - - $ Ca> ritd forward £. 10,121 5,200 161 13,255 32 s. d. 17 8* O 3 5 13 1 O 6 28,770 14 8£ 3,389 174 14,016 600 167 13,950 7,250 423,479 22,122 17,076 H o 19 3 O o o 10 2* 4 0} 507.593 6 10 12,699 15 6 310,202 15 8 10,000 O 8,005 18 8,050 6 O 59i' 10 35U.551 4 8 [104] ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A. 1.) — continued. 1808. Bv whom drawn. Capt. D'Auvergnc - commandant at Heligoland - David Allan - assist, commis. Do. - Rob. H Kennedy - dep, commis. to forces under L. Cathcart in Baltic - Du. - Do. - under Sir J.Moore - Do. - Do. - Do. - in Spain Col. C \V. Doyle - on a special mis- sion in Spain - James Drummond - dep. commis. of accounts, Spain - John Bell - consul at Lisbon James Pipon - deputy commissary. Portugal - John Erslfine - commissary in chief. Spain - W.J. Coope" - dep. commis. Do. - Geo.Assiotti - Do. - Do. Sir Hew Dalrymple - lieut. gov. of Gibraltar Tho.Hislop - lieut. gov. of Trinidad Geo. Metcatf - president at Dominica Col. F. Maitland - gov. of Grenada Geo. Beckwith - gov. of St. Vincents Will. Woodley - president at Antigua Sir W. Young - gov. of Tobago Earle Harwood - barrack master, Curacao - Stewart Abernethy - assist, commis. Curasao - Hen. Broughton - dep. commis. Do. - Will. Griiliths & Co., agent for the captors - Do. - Chas. Baggs - assist, commis. Do. - John Corser - receiver general, cus- toms, Do. - Joseph Bullock - commis. gen. Wind- ward and Leeward Islands - Samuel Chollet - Do. Thomas Wethered - Do. Randolph J.Routh - acting commis., Jamaica - John Spooner - pres. at Barbadoes - James Ryrie - - Dominica W. N. Firebrace - resident commis. Demerara - T. H. Dummett - secretary to selected West India commissioners - W. Whitmore - commis. gen. Wind- ward and Leeward Islands - Brought forward Coals purchased His pay, &c. Commissariat department Do. Do. Advances on account of\ Spanish Government - J On account of his pay - Relief of emigrants His pay, Sec. Commissariat department Do. : Do. - Service of the Garrison at' Gibraltar, and advances? on acct. of Span, armies' Chinese Settlers at Trinidad Secretary's salary Do. Do. Hire of a schooner, and ) secretary's salary - $ Secretary's salary - - Barrack department Commissariat department • Do. Hire of Negroes Commissariat department Expencesonaccountof the ) government of Curacao $ Commissariat department Do. Do. Do. Secretary's salary 2d instalment for draining ) swamps at Prince Rupert's ) Commissariat department Expences of the commission Commissariat department - 376,004 15 8 i ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A. 1.)— continued. 1808. [105] By whom drawn. ("Charles Cameron - governor of the Bahamas - I Lieut. Col. A. M. K. Hamilton - su- perintendant at Honduras - Sir John Wentworth, Bart. - lieut gov. of Nova Scolia - j Sir George Prevost, Bart. - Do. - J Francis Gore - gov. at Bermuda - I Johu Despard - president at Cape Breton - I George Brinley - commis. genera Halifax - <( John Hodgson - gov. at Bermuda | John Craigie - dep. commis. Canada I Brig. Gen. N. Nepean - commanding at Cape Breton - I James Green - acting dep. commiss Canada - I J. F. W. Desbarres - lieut. governor Prince Edward Island - I Rear Admiral Holloway - command- ing at Newfoundland - | Edward Winslow - pres. at Fredrick ton, New Brunswick - I f Thomas Ludlam Francis Leeuam gov. at Sierra Leone - assistant com missary, Siena Leone T. Perronet Thompson - governor at Sierra Leone - John Murray - dep.-commis-ary, Cape of Good Hope Right Hon. Tho. Maitland - go- vernor of Ceylon <^ Samuel Hamilton - assistant com- missary, Goree - Joseph Bullock - commissary ge neral, South America Edward Couche - deputy Do., Do. Robert Hill • Do., Do. - - - Do. - - - - Do. Cape of Good Hope - Captain P. G. King .... Hire of yessels, commissa-~] riat departm'en*, &c. - / HisownandsccrctarvVia- I lary - - - j Expense of embodied militia Mr. I .'Anseville's allowance Military expenditure Hire of a schooner Commissariat department Military expenditure Commissariat department Hire of a schooner, and se- cretary's salary Commissariat department ecretary's salary - - Rations to volunteers, Sec. Embodied militia Defence of the colony - Commissariat department Defence of the colony - Commissariat department Military expenditure Commissariat department Do. Do. Do. Do. Purchase of corn a tRio") de Janeiro, for the army > at Montevideo - J Total Amount - £. 34,925 29,663 15S 100 O 4 9 6 2$ O 4 49S 9 10 23,081 8,913 ll£,9"72 109,348 608 1,888 2,000 4 9i 6 O 328,360 n 9 6,S5G 7 0$ 1,260 2 10 1,069 11 si 73,333 6 io> 27,761 8 3,832 7 8f 1,517 2,038 3,511 10 15 2 1,210 ii 8| 1,800 S 123,796 1 ! KM ,935,767 (1 [o] [106] ACCOUNTS. No. LXX. (A. 1.) — continued. I8O9. ACCOUNT of BILLS drawn on the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty* > Treasury, amounting to £. 4,162,290. being the Sum advanced by the Paj - master General to the Bank, for the Discharge thereof, between the 25t December 1808, and the 25th December I8O9. Fioin j liira"" ^ whom drawn. \ Service. £. s. a •fl Lieut. Gen. George Dou - lieutenant Hire of vessels, fortifica- \ tions, &c. - S 10,062 17 S i S governor of Jersey - 1 „ Lieut. Gen. Baldwin Leighton - com- 1 tr . mandant at Jersey - Do. - Do. 21S *^ Rear Admiral D'Auvergne - com- 5 "Ifc^ manding at Jersey - Relief of emigrants - 5,200 : t*sv Major General John Fraser, -com- Current expenses, fortifi- £ cations, &c. - - \ 2,798 8 8 \ l< mandant at Guernsey - i Lient.Gen Sir John Doyle, Do. -Do. - Do. - - Do. - 3,305 9 6 ! 1 1 ! Brig. General John Hatton - Do. at Alderney - Pay of signal master 172 17 1 c : for the public service there 21,812 12 6 & "3-d ( Edward Nicholls - gov. at Anholt - 500 I " J \ Lieut. Cba. Champion - commanding 100 t •5 gj < the Snipe brig off Anholt - Do. i ■^ "3 J David Allen - assistant commissary, departments- - ) Bounty to recruits for De ? Meuron's regiment - -0 O 10,158 4 23,724 17 1 J^LordStrangford - envoy at the Brazils ■5 ^ George Spiller - deputy commissary, "S (_ Madeira Defence of the colony Commissariat department General expenses of the\ Ceyl.»n government - J Corn purchased at Rio de j Janeiro for theuse of the /■ army at Montevideo J Relief of emigrants, &c. - 1,980 q ill 5 202 10 277,281 IS 4 9,387 19 Si 5,485 13 I Commissariat department - Total Amount 10,629 11 3 3.30 5,C54 13 78,707 2 22,002 5 3 2,' 42 10 4 450 10 7 134,170 3 7 20,000 d 4162290 O O ACCOUNTS. [109] No. LXXI. A RETURN of the Annual Average Price of WHEAT in Scotland, from the Year 1/50; — also, a RETURN of the An- nual Average Price of WHEAT in Encland and Walks, frond t h e Year 1750 : — Pursuant to an Order of the Committee on the High Price of Gold Bullion. ENGLAND | ENGLAND SCOTLAND. and WALES. SCOTLAND and WALES. Wheat. Wheat. Wheat. Quarters. Quarters. s. d. ■ters Quai ti re. s. d. s . rf. S. d. 1771 59 6 4 , 2 1791 - No Return. 47 2 41 6 50 8 2 - S3 2 42 1 1 3 42 8 51 3 - 42 '.) 48 11 •1 - 42 2 52 8 4 •• 46 4 51 8 5 - 37 2 48 4 5 - ee s 74 2 6 SI 38 2 6 • 70 8 77 l 7 34 4 45 6 7 . 4 1 3 53 l 8 93 10 42 8 - 41 9 50 3 9 - 27 33 8 9 • 57 1 67 6 1780 - 29 8 35 8 1800 - 89 4 1 1« 7 1 9.Q 6 44 8 1 - 100 9 1 ! 8 3 f S3 2 47 10 ' 2 - 63 7 67 5 S - 42 S 52 8 3 - 49 9 56 6 4 40 48 10 4 - 53 5 60 1 5 Np Return. 51 10 5 - 76 4 87 10 6 Do. 38 10 6 - 66 5 79 7 Do. 41 2 7 - 66 7 73 3 S - Do. 45 8 - 71 8 79 9 Do. 51 2 9 - 85 6 95 7 1790 - Do. 5^ 2 S' 5th M arch 1810. Jo/t« Ja>res Catherwo oc?, Receiver of Corn Returns N. B. The annual Average Price of Wheat from the year 1750, cannot he given as required by the fuiegoing Order; the first Act, viz. 10th Geo. III. chap. 39, for registering the P. ice of Grain in Great Britain, not being passed till the latter end of the year 1770, which Act was very imperfectly carried into execution in Scotland, Returns of the Prices of Grain never being made but from a few of the Counties ; and from 1785, the Returns entirely ceased till the Corn Act of the S 1st of the King, eh. 30, came into operation, from which time Returns from Scotland have been as regularly made as ihose from England and Wales. No. LXXII. ARETURN of the Annual Average Priccsof WHEAT in Ireland, commencing Year 1/84 and ending 1800. Year ending £.s. d.\ Year ending £. D. c. 1784 - 1 8 f per barrel *^of 20 stone. 1797 - 1 6 8, \ per btrrel ( of 20«tone. 1785 - 1 3 33 — 1798 - I 7 — 1786 - I 3 8 — 1799 - I 12 H — 1787 - 1 3 <2\ — - 2 16 4 1788 - I 2 4 — i - 2 16 7' — 1789 - 1 6 11 — - l 11 6 1790 - 1 a 21 ■ 1 9 01. 1791 - 1 6 14 — - 1 9 10 1792 - 1 3 4 ' — 1 805 - i n ' — 1793 - 1 " 5 '■', — 1806 - 1 19 (i 1794 - 1 10 10;} — 1S07 - 2 1 1795 - 1 14 10 j — | 1808 - 2 4 1796 - I 18 5 — 2 1 — Dublin, 6th March 1810. ■ic, Register of Corn Return*. [110] ACCOUNTS. M oj CO CO ■* _ w o •o •n CO . co" lO CO 00 IN. co CO t^ _, ^ ^S? 8 ds oj cq co OJ CO CO S co" CO 11 CO CO OJ o ~o lO o tF CO CO CO dj ^* _r CO s «o ■* iO ( s. T3 •-N 9* o t 13 -a g . to c8 , a s . .a o iot ' CO « 1 fe 1 a CO e ■ js 4S-SH. e 3 ■" i J | o . g o to reenk Coloi ince ndia, 9 o . to , Mi" tJ .. •- QQ -G CO PS4 a Imports as sold to the Con Profit to the Importers, lso, including the Freig! aid to British Subjects From which is deducte of the Newfoundland ale Fisheries, &c. is of Imports from Brit onsidered as favourable s of Imports from Britis favourable Balance > ~ 1 o 1 <4- 're P5 co . O CO re 1 ' CO to o CU > '(O H CO to 1 o u 3 O 1 c e <§ J CO P2- ACCOUNTS. [Ml] No. LXXIV. An ACCOUNT, showing the Official Value of the Exports from Great Britain to the Continent of Europe, to the West Indies, to America, to Africa, and to Asia, respectively ; during the last five Years. 1805. 1806. 1 1R07- 1808. 1809. Contin. of Europe West India Islands Cont. of America Africa Asia - £. 15,465,430 4.09;;. 196 8,067,671 990,625 1,669,214 30,289,1-36 £. 13,216,386 5,339,612 10,754,140 1,433,153 1,936,954 £. 12,689.590 9,455,028 797,741 1 ,884,438 £. 1 1 ,280,490 7,507,575 8,369,472 532,842 1,933,225 £. 2S,722,6I| 8,755,193 10,570,100 703,180 1,647,927 Total - £. 32,680,245 130,260,064 -'9,623,604 45,399,015 Custom-House, London, 7th May 1810. If. Irving, Inspector General of Imports & Exports. No. LXXV. An ACCOUNT of the Official and Real Value of the EXPORTS from Great Britain to the Continent of Europe, in each of the last five Years. Exports from Great Britain to the Continent of Europe. Official Value. Real Value. £. £. 1805 - 15,465,430 20,435.940 1S06 - 13,216,386 17,547,243 1807 - 12,689,590 1 f,280,490 15,420,514 1808 - - ' - 13,983,123 1809 - 23,722,615 27,190,337 Custom-House, London, 1st June 1810. JCillam Irving, Inspector General of Imports & Exports. No. LXXV I. An ACCOUNT of the Official and Real Value of the IMPORTS into Great Britain from the Continent of Europe, in eacli of the last five Years. Imports into Great Britain from the Continent of Europe Official Value. Real Value. £■ £. 1805 - 10,008,649 21,744,762 1806 - 8,197,256 17,855,524 1807 - 7,973,510 17,442,755 1808 - 4,210,671 8.90.5,099 1809 - 9,551,857 19,821,601 Cu»tom-House, London, } 1st June 1810. J William Irvvg, Inspector Ge leral of Imports 5c Export* [112] ACCOUNTS. No. LXXVII. An ACCOUNT of the Quantity of GRAIN, MEAL, and FLOUR imported from the Continent of Europe into England ; from the 1st September I&09 to the latest Date to which the same can be made up, viz. 5th April 1810. Imported into Eng and, between the SPECIES. 1st September 1809 and the 5th April 1810. Corn and Grain. Meal and Flour. Quarters. Cwts. Barley - 3,714 Beans • - 14,003 Indian Corn - 246 Oats - - 149,597 — Pease - - 12.966 — Rye - - 12,974 Wheat - 431,687 Wheat Flour - ' - 65,441 Total 625,187 65,441 Custom-House, London, William Irving, 28th May 1810. J Inspector Gen ;ral of Imports & Export!. No. LXXVII I. An ACCOUNT of the Value of all Imports into and all Exports from Ireland, for five Years, ending the 5th January 1810 3 distin- guishing each Year, and the Value of Irish Produce and Manufac- tures from the Value of Foreign Articles exported; together with the Difference between the Official Value and the declared Value of Irish Produce and Manufactures exported in the Years end ing 5th January 1808, I8O9, and 1810. Year ending 5th January 1806 - 1807 - 1808 - 1809 - 1810 - Official Value of Imports. Official Value of Irish Products and Manufactures Exported. Foreign and Co- lonial Merchan- dize Exported. 3. d. 5,736,214 10 4 5,605,964 16 1 6,637,907 16 7 f 7,129,507 11 1} 7,471,417 5 1 £. s. d. 5,OJ9,S67 13 10 5,030,722 15 10 5,307,806 16 4 5,696,897 5 5, 5,408,910 19 9i £. s. d. 142,4S1 4- 6 157,443 2 11 150,370 3 8| 235,694 6 ll| 330,933 5 4 jVo/e. — The real Value of Irish Produce and Manufactures, computed at the average Prices Current, exported in the years ending 5th Ja- nuary 1 808, 1800, and 1810 : , £. s. d. Year ending 5th January 1808 - - 10,110,385 3 6{ . " . . 1809 - , 12,577,517 10 11 1810 - - 11,464,265 8 2| Irish Office. M.*v 82d, 1810. C. TV. FUnt. ACCOUNTS. No. LXXIX. [113] An ACCOUNT of all MONIES which have been sent from this Country, by the Paymasters General of His Majesty's Land Forces, for the Use of His Majesty's Armies Abroad, or for the Succour of His Majesty's Foreign Allies, from the Commencement of the present War, to 1st February 1810 ; distinguishing Gold from Silvbr, Bullion from Coin, and the Places to which the said Monies were sent respectively. SPECIE and BULLION purchased by the Paymasters General, and sent Abroad. When sent. Description of Coin. Sterling Cost. Where sent. £. s. d. 1805. May 9 Silver in Dollars 7,350 £. s. d. Copper in Pence - 150 1806. June 15 Silver in Dollars - 7,000 1 Newfoundland. 1807. June 8 Copper - - - Silver in Dollars 504 5,000 f" =£34,31 3 10 1808. April 16 Do. Do. - - 9,309 10 1 1809. April 4 Do. in 5 Shilling Pieces 5,000 J 1805. Oct. 27 Silver in Dollars 100,000 ) Nov. 3 Do. Do. - - 333,000 f Hamburgh. 13 Do. Do. - - 333,000 r 1,100,000 o o 21 Do. Do. - - 334,000 ) 1806. May 6 Silver in Dollars 20,000 1 Halifax. J 26,541 13 S 1807. Oct. 6 Do. Do. - - 6,541 13 6 1806. July 28 Aug. 12 Nov. 5 Silver in Dollars Do. Do. 12,000 7,718 14 3 ( South America. Po. Do. - - 8,000 \ 27,718 14 3 1806. Aug. 14 Silver in Dollars 20,000 1 Sicily. J 220,000 1807. Feb. 25 Do. Do. 200,000 1807. April 23 Gold in French Louis. - 454 1 Silver in French Crowns 546 p Dec. 18 1308. Mar. 18 ( Gold in Half Guineas& 1 \ Seven Shilling Pieces J Do. Do. - - 6,000 5,000 Jersey. * 22,000 Sept. 5 Do. Do. - - 8,000 1S09. June 20 Silver in Bank Tokens - 2,000 _ 1<:07. April23 Gold in French Louis - Silver in Crowns - 40 460 ? Guernsey. i 500 1807. Oct. Silver in Dollars 5,458 6 <; Goree. 1807. Nov. 13 Silver in Dollars 15,000 o ^ Madeira. 1808. April 2 Do. Do. 83,379 15 y 61,547 10 Do. Do. 23,273 15 J w (continued) [114] ACCOUNTS. No LXXIX. continued. — Specie and Bullion purchased by the Pay- masters General, and sent Abroad. When sent. 1808. Jan. March 26 April 18 May 21 June 22 Oct. 26 1808. April 2 1308. Jan. IS June 25 July 5 16 Description of Coin. Silver in Dollars Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Silver in Dollars Gold in Bullion Silver in Dollars July SO and \ August 3 J August Sept. Nov. 2 12 30 Do. in Bars. Do. in Dollars I^o. in Bars Do. in Dollars Do. Do. Gold in Doubloons &: Ports Silver in Dollars Dec. 15 1S09. Jan. June ,13 Aug. 8 1808. Feb. 11 1809. April 19 1809. July Aug. 30 Oct. 21 Nov. £ Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. - Do. Do. in Bars - Do. Do. equal quantities} 2 Tin Spanish & Portugal \ $ iC'oininequ Gold in Doubloons Do. in Do. & Portugal Coin Silver in Dollars Gold in Doubloons - Silver in Bars - Silver in Dollars Silver in Bars - Silver in Dollars Do. Do. Gold in Dutch Ducats Silver in Dollars Do. D.. Do. Do. Sterling Cost. 11)0,000 193,118 15 1 150,000 143,181 16 195,454 10 9 73,295 9 23,273 15 80,000 48,863 12 195,454 10 83,785 10 68 8 32 13 116,363 lo 174,553 2 6 58, 69, 116, 116, 116, 50, 50, 232. 1 1 6, 349. 50, 1.51. 212, 168. 132 7 O 821 5 301 11 8 368 15 363 15 000 () 000 737 10 3G8 15 ,106 5 000 472 8 215 4 433 16 Where sent. '. Gothenburg. f 855,050 10 10 Quebec. Spain and Por- y tugal. 2,295,106 6 4 100,000 25,016 15 3 110,636 6 4 50,000 O 70,000 O 80,000 j j 1,136 12 6 j Heligoland. 250,000 Malta. 9,479 3 11 50, 0(H) 64,500 43.487 12 S 11,636 17 6 I I 24,356 5 J IS Walcheren. ?03,459 19 I ACCOUNTS. [115] SPECIE received by the Paymasters General, other than by Purchase, and sent Abroad. Description of Specie sent tfo.cf Ounces No. of Coin. When arrl where sent. SilverinDollars . 132,000 1806. May 6 1 Halifax. Do. - Do. . 74,993 1S08. Feb. 8 Do. - Do. 100,000 1807. April Quebec. D^ - Do. 1 ,500,000 1807. May 1 Do. in Danish 1 Crowns - - 124 ISO9. April 10 I Do. in Dollars . 800,358 _ > Sicily. Do. - Do. . 365,000 Oct. 12 Gold in Dou- bloons - . - 15,937+ _ 1 SilverinDollars- - - 1,000,000 1810. Jan. 1 J Do. - Do. . 20,000 1807. July Bermuda. Do. - Do. . 500,000 I&07. August Barbadoes. Do. - Do. - " 708,263. 10. I8O7. August The Baltic. Do. - Do. . 500,000 1808. July 13 ^ Do. - Do. . 160,294 - - 14 1 Do. - Do. - - 139,566 - - 16 Oz. dwts. Do. - Do. 392,2/4 14 - Sept. 13 Gold in Dou- bloons - - 9,8754-i I8O9. April 12 1 Spain and *" Portugal. SilverinDollars - 10,000 14 Do. - Do. - 39,641 June 9 Do. - Do. - 203,577 . Do. - Do. - 44,0J0 - Gold equal to Dollars - . 105,949 July 21 SilverinDollars - 500,000 1810. Jan. 20 J Do. - Do. 433,000 - - 1805. July 30 f Cape of \Good Hope Do. - Do. 752,000 1805. Sept. 19 1 Do. - Do. 7S0.000 - - 21 V Malta. Do. - Do. 402,761 18 - - - - 22 J Do. - Do. •17 2 1805. Oct. Husum Richard Taylor and Co., Shoe-Lane, London.