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Gladstone’s Measures 
 
 FOR 
 
 The Pacification of 
 
 Ireland ; 
 
 THE FULL TEXT OF 
 
 I. — The Premier’s Two Speeches on the Home Rule Scheme ; 
 U. — The Home Rule Bill ; 
 
 III. — The Premier’s Speech on Land Purchase; 
 
 IV. — The Land Purchase Bill. 
 
 APRIL, 1886, 
 
 PUBLISHED AT THE OFFICES OF THE 
 
 “ MORNING NEWS” BELFAST , and “FREEMANS JOURNAL ” DUBLIN, 
 
 PRICE THREE PENCE. 
 
 CLOTH BOUND, ONE SHILLING. 
 
Mfc.4f£ 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 OF THE 
 
 INTRODUCING THE 
 
 HOME RULE BILL, 
 
 - Thursday , 8th April , 1886. 
 
 In the House of Commons on Thursday, April vernment — I am not now referring; to this as a 
 8th, matter of praise or blame, but simply as a matter 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE, who rose at 35 minutes past of fact— felt that they had reached a moment for 
 four, was received with loud and long continued decisive resolution, .when they made the an- 
 cheers. He said— I could wish, Mr. Sneaker, on nouncement on the last day of their Ministerial 
 many grounds that it had been possible for me on existence that their duty compelled them to sub- 
 - this single occasion to expound to the House the mit to Parliament proposals for further repfes- 
 whole policy and intentions of her Majesty’s Go- S1 7 e criminal legislation. Sir, we entirely agree 
 vernment with reference to Ireland. The two 'yith that conclusion, and we think that the 
 questions of the Land and of Irish Government time i*s come when it is the duty 
 are in our view closely and inseparably con- Parliament when it is the honour 
 nected. They are two channels through which we Parliament and its duty to require 
 hope to find access to that vital question of fch ^ xt should endeavour to come to some de 
 
 cisive resolution on this matter, and our intention 
 social order in Ireland. is, s j r> fa, propose to the House of Commons that 
 
 These two questions are in our view— if in w hi c h W e think, if happily accepted, will liberate 
 that of nobody else— inseparable the one Parliament from the restraints under which oi 
 from the other, but it is impossible for late years it has ineffectually struggled to perform 
 me to undertake the task of elucidating both t j ie business of the country— that will restore 
 questions together, considering the mass of ma- legislation to its natural, ancient, and unimpeded 
 terials I have already got before me, which I may COU rse, and that, above all, will obtain an answer 
 say is so enormous that I do not know that at any whether it is or is not possible to establish good 
 period a task has been laid upon me involving an( j 
 
 such and so de versified an exposition, and it harmonious relations between ENGLAND ANE 
 would be in vain to attempt more than human Ireland 
 
 strength could, I think, suffice to achieve. Sir, (hear, hear), by those free institutions to which 
 lam, m contemplating the magnitude of the task, Englishmen, Scotchmen, and Irishmen are un- 
 filled with painful mistrust (Opposition cheers), alterably attached (loud cheers, which were nro- 
 but the mistrust is, I can assure you, absorbed in longed by the Home Rule members). Now, "sir. 
 a proper feeling of the responsibility that would when Isay that we are inevitably called on to deal 
 be upon me if I should fail to awaken the public in with the subject of social order in Ireland do not 
 Merest (cheers), if I should fail to bring home to the ] e £ me f or a moment either be led myself or lead 
 public mind as much as I seem to perceive it in others into the dangerous path of exaggeration 
 •my own mind the magnitude of the varied as- D f crime in Ireland. Agrarian crime is, I rejoice 
 pects of the question. Sir, what I wish is, that to say, not what it was in other days— days now 
 we should no longer fence and skirmish with this- comparatively distant— days which are within my 
 question (Irish cheers), hut that we should come 0 wn earliest recollections ra a member of Parlia- 
 fco close quarters . ment. The Government of Lord Grey proposed 
 
 with it (cheers) that we should get, if w r e can, at to Parliament a Coercion Act. At that time the 
 the root of it— that we should take means, not information at their command did not distinguish 
 merely for the wants of to-day or of to-morrow, between agrarian and ordinary crime as the dis 
 but, if possible, that we should look into the tinction is now drawn at the present time. It is 
 more distant future— that we should endeavour pleasant to tell the house that the serious agra- 
 to anticipate and realise the future by the serious r i an crimes of Ireland, which in 1881 were 1,011, 
 reflection that we should, if possible, unroll it in ’ m 1885 were 245 (hear, hear). If I gm back to the 
 anticipation before our _ eyes, and make period of 1832 the contrast is, perhaps, still more 
 provision while there is yet time for startling. In 1832the homicides in Ireland were 248,. 
 the results that may await upon a right or in 1885 they were 65. The cases of intention to kill 
 a wrong measure of yesterday (loud cheers). j n t } ie first of these years were 209 — I mean in- 
 Mr. bpeaker, on one point I rejoice to think tent to kill happily unfulfilled; in 1885 they were 
 
 we have tne material I might say of 37. Serious offences of all kind in Ireland in 1832 
 
 final agreement. were 6,014; in 1885 they were 1,057. The whole 
 
 It is felt on both sides of the house, unless 1 am of the criminal offences in Ireland in the former 
 
 much mistaken, that we have arrived at a stage year were 14,000, and in the latter year 2,633. 
 oiu poliucui with Ireland where So far, therefore, we are helped to know that tho 
 
 roads part one fron. the other, not soon pro- ’case we have now to deal with is one of the most 
 paoly to meet again (uc. T/ hear). The late Go- extreme and at the present moment it is one which 
 
 * 1)3982 
 
2 
 
 THREATENS THR GENERAL PEACE OP SOCIETY. 
 Notwithstanding that, sir, in order to lay the 
 ground for the present measure, we a,sk leave to 
 introduce, and I am aware that it does require 
 a real broad and solid ground to be offered in 
 order to justify the introduction of such a mea- 
 sure. In order to lay that ground I must 
 ask the house to enter into a brief re- 
 view of the general features ot that 
 which . had been our course with 
 regard to what hfs been called coercion or 
 repressive criminal legislation. And, sir, the first 
 point to which I would call your attention is that 
 whereas exceptional legislation, which involves ex- 
 ceptional provision in the law, ought itself in its 
 own nature t.o be essentially and absolutely ex- 
 ceptional, that legislation has become not only ex- 
 ceptional but habitual (cheers), We are like the 
 man who, knowing that medicine may be 
 the means of lengthening his years, lives 
 upon medicine. But nations no more than 
 individuals can find sustenance in that 
 which is meant to be a cure (cheers). 
 But has it been a cure ? Have we found the ob 
 jectme desired — and honestly desired — to obtain? 
 No, sir. Agrarian crime has sometimes upon a 
 larger and sometimes upon a smaller scale been as 
 habitual in Ireland as the legislation which has 
 been introduced to repress it (hear, hear), and 
 that agrarian crime, although at the present time 
 it is almost at low water mark, has a fatal capa 
 city of expansion under stimulating circum- 
 stances, and it rises from time to time, as it has 
 risen in 1885, to an extent which is alarming, and 
 which haa become threatening to the 
 general social order and to the peace 
 of private and domestic life (hear, hear), ought, 
 sir, to have observed when I compared the agra- 
 rian crime of 1832 with that of 1885 that the de- 
 crease of crime is not so great as it looks, when 
 compared with the population. The population 
 ©f Ireland in 1832 was nearly 8,000,000; whereas, 
 as at present it may be taken at 5,000,000; but 
 the exact proportion of crime I believe is very 
 fairly represented by the figures I will now give 
 The population of Ireland now is under two- 
 thirds of what it was in 1832, and the crime is 
 under one-fifth of what it was then. This is sim- 
 ply the external manifestation, and that manifes- 
 tation is three -fold. In the first place, with cer- 
 tain exceptions, for the class of winter juries it 
 is impossible to depend in Ireland upon 
 THE FINDING OF A JURY 
 
 in a case of agrarian crime according to the facts 
 as they are viewed by the Government, by 
 the judges, and by the police. I think at 
 large that is a most serious mischief pass- 
 ing down very deep into the groundwork of 
 civil society. It is also, sir, a mischief where 
 evictions are resorted to by landlords, possibly in 
 various cases unnecessarily (cheers). But in every 
 pase these evictions — good, bad, and indifferent as 
 to their justification — staud pretty much in the 
 way of the same discredit ; and finally, sir, it is 
 n»>t to be denied that there is a great interference 
 with individual liberty. I am not on this occa- 
 sion about to assume the tone of fallacy (laughter. 
 There is a good deal of intimidation in England), 
 and if we, the English and the Scotch, were under 
 a conviction that we had such grave cause to war- 
 rant irregular action , as is the conviction entertained 
 by a very large part of the population in Ireland, 
 I am not quite sure that we should not like that 
 part of the population in Ireland to resort 
 to the rude wid the unjustifiable remedy 
 -u : (Opposition cries of “No. 
 
 I am very ambitious on this important 
 occasion to gain one object, and that is not to 
 treat this question controversially. I have an ob* 
 ject in view, and I do uot despair of attaining it. 
 I will not enter into the question whether there 
 is ever intimidation in England or whether there 
 is not. I will simply record the fact with which 1 
 thought is was just to accompany the confession 
 with regard to ourselves that intimidation does 
 prevail although not to the extent that is sup- 
 posed, but yet to a material and painful extent. 
 Now, sir, the. consequence of all this is to weaken 
 generally the respect for law and order, and that 
 amongst a people who, I believe, are as capable 
 of attaining to 
 
 THE VERY HIGHEST MORAL AND SOCIAL STANDARD 
 of any people upon the face of the earth (cheers). 
 So much for Coercion. If I use the phrase it ia 
 for brevity as representing repressive legislation. 
 But there is one circumstance to which I can’t 
 help calling the special attention of the house. 
 Nothing has been more painful to me than to ob- 
 serve that in this matter we are not improving, 
 but on the contrary we are losing ground. Since 
 the last half century dawned we have been 
 steadily engaged in extending as well as consoli- 
 dating free institutions. I divide the period since 
 the Act of Union with Ireland into two — the first 
 from th8 year 1800 to 1832, the epoch of what is 
 still justly called the great Reform Act, and 
 secondly, from 1833 to 1885. I do not know whe- 
 ther it has been as widely observed as I think it 
 deserves to be that in the first of these periods, a 
 period of 32 years, there was no less than eleven 
 years — it may seem not much to say, but 
 wait for what is coming — eleven years of these 32 
 years, in which our statute book was free 
 throughout the whole year from repressive legisla- 
 tion of an exceptional kind against Ireland. But 
 in the 53 years since we have advanced far in the 
 career of Liberal principles and action, and in 
 these 53 years, from 1833 to 1885, there are but 
 two years which are entirely free from the action 
 of this special legislation (hear, hear). Is that 
 not of itself almost enough to prove that we have 
 arrived at a point where it is necessary that we 
 should take a careful and searching survey of our 
 position, for, sir, I would almost venture, trusting 
 to the indulgent interpretation of the house, to 
 say that the coercion we have heretofore employed 
 has been a 
 
 SPURIOUS INEFFECTUAL COERCION, 
 and if there is to be coercion — God forbid — but if 
 there is to be, it ought to be adequate to attain its 
 end. If it is to attain its end it must be different in it- 
 self, different in its administration, enforced with 
 a spirit, a courage, and consistency other than 
 that with which we have been heretofore familiar 
 (hear, hear). Well, what other result has been 
 produced ? This above all — and now I am com- 
 ing to what I consider to be the basis of the whole 
 mischief — that the law, whether right or wrong, 
 is in point of fact discredited in Ireland, and dis- 
 credited on this account among the people of Ire- 
 land — that it comes to them with a foreign aspect 
 (Parnellite cheers), in a foreign garb (cheers). 
 These coercion bills of ours, of course — for it haa 
 become a matter of course, but I am speak- 
 ing of facts not of merits — these coercion 
 bills themselves are resisted by members 
 who represent Ireland in Parliament. The 
 English mind by actions of this kind and the 
 tone of the Press towards them, is estranged to 
 wards Iroland, and the mind of the Irish people is 
 estranged towards England and Scotland (hear 
 
not think I am assuming too much when I say I 
 have shown in this comparatively short review, 
 though I wish it could have been briefer, still 
 enough to show, that if coercion is to be the basis 
 of our policy we must no longer be seeking— as 
 we are always laudably seeking — to whittle it 
 down almost to nothing at the first moment w’e 
 can, but we must, like men, adopt it boldly and 
 sternly enforce it until its end is completely at- 
 tained, with what result, and peace, good-will, and 
 freedom, I do not now stop to inquire (cheeis). 
 Ineffectual and sj urious coercion is morally worn 
 out: and, sir, I give some credit to the late Gov- 
 ernment for their first perception of this fact. 
 They must have perceived it when they came to 
 the conclusion in 1885 that they would not pro- 
 pose the renewal or continuance of repressive 
 legislation. They were in a position in which at 
 was comparatively easy for them to propose it as a 
 Conservative Government — comparatively easy, 
 In my opinion, as a Conservative Government 
 following in the footsteps of a Liberal Govern- 
 ment (“ Hear, hear,” from th6 Ministerial 
 benches”), but they determined not to propose it 
 (cheers). Sir, I wish I could feel assured that 
 they and that party by which they are supported 
 were fully aware of the immense historic 
 weight of that determination. I have some- 
 times heard language used which ap- 
 peared to betoken an idea on the part of those 
 who used it that this was a very simple matter, 
 that they had on a certain state of facts acted in 
 one way in July and judged on another state of 
 facts in another way in January, and that conse- 
 quently the whole ought to be effaced from the 
 minds and memory ox men in order that they 
 might revert to the position in which they stood 
 twelve months ago. Sir, rely upon it, the effects 
 ctf that decision of July can 
 
 NEVER BE EFFACED. 
 
 (Ministerial and Irish cheers.) Do what you will 
 it will weigh and it will tell upon the fortunes 
 and the circumstances both of England and of Ire- 
 land (hear, hear) The return to the ordinary law 
 cannot, I am afraid, be said to have succeeded, 
 immediately, or almost immediately, after the 
 lapse of the Crimes Act boycotting increased 
 fourfold, and since that time it has been about 
 stationary, but in October it had increased four- 
 fold as compared with what it was in the month 
 of May, just before the retirement of Earl 
 Spencer. If it be true that resolute coercion ought 
 to take the place of irresolute coercion, if it 
 be true that our system, such as I have ex- 
 hibited it, has been — and do not let us hide it 
 from ourselves; we cannot hide it from the 
 world — a failure in regard to repressive legis- 
 lation, will that other coercive legislation which 
 it is possible to conceive be more successful ? 
 Well, sir, I can conceive the circumstances, and 
 in history we might point to the circumstances in 
 which coercion of that kind, stern, resolute, con- 
 sistent, might be, and has been, successful. But, 
 in my judgment, it requires essentially two con- 
 ditions, and those are the autocracy of Govern- 
 ment and secrecy of public transactions (cheers) 
 Give those conditions, and the kind of coercion to 
 which I am referring might possibly succeed, but 
 will it succeed in the light of day ? (Hear, hear.) 
 And can it be administered by the people of Eng- 
 land and Scotland against the people of Ireland 
 (Cries of “No”) — the two nations, perhaps ttie 
 most free of all on earth — I need hardly except 
 America — who best understand and who are most 
 fond of the touch of the essential principles of 
 of union and liberty? (Cheer.s) Now, sir, I ven- 
 +1 ' '•wHori. to wl'.ich I 1 m.Iv ex- 
 
 pect any broad exception can be taken. I 
 won’t assume, I won’t beg tlie question whether 
 the people of England and of Scotland will ever 
 administer that sort of effectual coercion which I 
 have placed in contrast with our timid and hesi- 
 tating repressive measures, but this I will say, 
 that the people of England and Scotland will not 
 resort to that alternative until they have 
 TRIED EVERY OTHER MEANS 
 (loud cheers). Have they yet tried every other 
 means ? (“No, no” from the Parnellites). Some 
 
 we have tried to which I will refer. I have 
 been concerned in them myself, but we have 
 not yet tried every alternative (loud cheers), 
 because there is one not unknown to human ex- 
 perience — on the contrary, it is well known to 
 many countries in the world where this dark and 
 difficult problem has been solved by the com- 
 paratively natural and simple, though not always 
 easy expedient of 
 
 STRIPPING THE LAW OF ITS FOREIGN GARB, 
 and investing it with a domestic character (loud 
 cheers). There may be many who say that that 
 will not succeed. I by no means beg that ques- 
 tion at this moment, but this I say, that Ireland, 
 as far as I know, and speaking now of the great 
 majority of the people of Ireland, supposes and 
 thinks it will succeed, and that experience else- 
 where, as perhaps I shall try to show, 
 supports that conclusion (renewed Irish 
 cheers). This at any rate I think you 
 
 will not question, that the case of Ireland, though 
 she is represented here no less liberally than Eng- 
 land and Scotland, yet the case of Ireland is not 
 the same case as that of England and Scotland 
 (hear, hear). England by her iron strength and 
 vast majority in this house makes her own laws 
 (cheers), jirst as freely and just as independently 
 as if she were not combined with the two other 
 countries. It is just to state that she has been con- 
 siderably impeded (hear, hear, and a laugh); but 
 I do not speak of that now. Well, sir, Scotland is 
 a small country, smaller than Ireland, but a 
 country endowed with a spirit so masculine and 
 firm that- nster in the long course of her history, 
 with the exception of two short periods of a few 
 years each, was the superior strength of 
 England sufficient to enable her to beat 
 down national freedom beyond the border. 
 Scotland, widely recognised by England, 
 
 has been allowed and encouraged in this 
 house to take her own course as freely and effec- 
 tually as if she commanded a representation six 
 times as strong as she has. The consequence is 
 that the mam spring of law in England is felt to 
 be English ; the main spring of law in Scotland is 
 felt by the people to be Scotch ; the main spring 
 of law in Ireland 
 
 IS NOT FELT BY THE PEOPLE TO BE IRISH 
 (cheers). I am bound to say it, for truth extorts 
 from me the avowal. It cannot be in Ireland 
 Irish in the same sense as it is Scotch in 
 Scotland. The main results of this statement 
 which I have laid before the house, be- 
 cause it was necessary as a groundwork 
 
 for my proposals are these. in the 
 
 first place, I deem it little less than a mockery to 
 hold that the state of law and facts con- 
 jointly, which I have endeavoured to 
 describe conduces to the real unity of this, 
 great and noble and world-wide empire. 
 
 In the second place, something must be done — • 
 something is imperatively demanded from us to 
 restore in Ireland the first conditions of civil life, 
 the free course of law, the liberty of every indivi- 
 dual i the ex rci ■ ' - ' l right ana the 
 
sympathy with the law, apart from which no 
 country can be called in the full sense of the word 
 a civilised country, nor can any country enjoy the 
 blessings which it is the object of civilised society 
 to confer (cheers). That is my introduction to 
 the task I have before me, and now I should wish 
 to ask what is the problem we have before us ? 
 Is it a problem quite unknown in the history of 
 the world ? Certainly not. It is really this — 
 there can be no secret about it so far as we are 
 concerned — it is how to reconcile Imperial unity 
 with 
 
 DIVERSITY OF LEGISLATURES. 
 
 Perhaps the house may recollect that Mr. Grattan 
 not only held these purposes to be reconcilable, 
 but did not scruple to go the length of saying — 
 
 I demand the continued severance of the Parliaments 
 with a view to the continued and everlasting unity of 
 the Empire. 
 
 Was that a flight of rhetoric ? Was it an auda- 
 cious paradox ? Wo ; it was a problem that 
 other countries have solved, and solved under 
 circumstances much more difficult than ours. 
 Why, " we ourselves may be said to have solved 
 it, for I do not think that anyone will question 
 the fact that for the six last centuries — for five at 
 least — Ireland has had a Parliament separate 
 from ours. That is a fact undeniable. Did 
 separation of the Parliaments destroy the 
 unity of the British Empire ? (Cheers). 
 Take the eighteenth century alone. I do not 
 suppose that harmony prevailed between Ireland 
 and England. We know very well there were 
 causes quite sufficient to account for a state of 
 almost continual recurrence of discord. Take the 
 eighteenth century alone. Can I suppose that 
 there was no 
 
 UNITY OF THE EMPIRE 
 
 in that eighteenth century ? Why, sir, it was the 
 century which saw our navy come to its supre- 
 macy, it was the century which witnessed the 
 foundation of that great and gigantic manufactur- 
 ing industry which now overshadows the world, 
 it was in a pre-eminent sense the century 
 of the Empire, and it was in a sense 
 
 but too conspicuous the century of war. Those 
 wars were carried on, the empire was maintained 
 and enormously enlarged, trade was established, 
 the navy was brought to supremacy by England, 
 while Ireland had her separate Parliament. Am 
 I to be told there was no unity of the empire in 
 that state of things? Well, sir, what has hap- 
 pened elsewhere ? Have no other countries had 
 to look this problem in the face ? The last half 
 century — the last sixty or seventy years, since the 
 great war, have been particularly rich in their ex- 
 periences on this subject and in the lessons which 
 they have afforded to us. There are many cases 
 to which I could refer to show how practicable it 
 is or how practicable it has been found by others 
 whom we are not accustomed to look upon as our 
 political superiors — how practicable it has been 
 found by others to bring into existence what is 
 termed 
 
 LOCAL AUTONOMY, 
 
 and yet not to sacrifice, but to confirm Imperial 
 unity (hear, hear). Sir, let us look to those two 
 countries, neither of them very large, but yet 
 countries which every Englishman and Scotchman 
 must rejoice to claim as kin. I mean the Scan- 
 dinavian countries of Sweden and Norway. Im- 
 mediately after the great war the Norwegians 
 were ready to take sword in hand to prevent them 
 coming under the domination of Sweden ; but the 
 powers of Europe undertook the settlement of 
 that, question, and they united those countries 
 opou a footing of a strict legislative indepen- 
 
 dence and equality. Now, I am not quoting this 
 as an exact precedent for us, but I am quoting it 
 as a precedent and argument a fortiori, because 
 I say they confronted much greater difficulties, 
 and they had to put a far greater strain upon 
 the unity of their country than we can 
 ever be called upon to put upon the 
 unjty of our country. The Legislature of Nor- 
 way is absolutely independent. The law even 
 forbids what I hope will never happen between 
 England and Ireland — the law even forbids, if I 
 am correct in my impression, that a Swede shall 
 bear office of any kind in the Norwegian Ministry. 
 There is no sort of supremacy or superiority in 
 the Legislature of Sweden over the Legislature of 
 Norway, which has had serious controversies, not 
 with Sweden, but with the King of Sweden, and it 
 hasfoughtoutthosecontroversies successfully upon 
 the strictest constitutional and Parliamentary 
 grounds. And yet with the two countries so 
 united what has been the effect ? No discord, no 
 convulsions, no danger to peace, no hatred, no 
 coercion, but a constantly growing sympathy. 
 Every man who knows their condition knows that 
 I speak the truth when I say that in every year 
 that passes Norway and Sweden are more and 
 more feeling themselves to be the children of a 
 common country united by a tie that never is to 
 be broken (hear, hear). I will give you one other 
 case — a case of enormous importance — I mean the 
 case of 
 
 AUSTRO-HUNGARY. 
 
 In Austria there is a complete duality. I will 
 not enter on the general condition of the Austrian 
 empire and of other dualisms or divisions or 
 diversities, but I will take simply this case. At 
 Vienna sits the Parliament of the empire, at Buda- 
 Pestb sits the Parliament of Hungary, and that is 
 a state of things which was established, I think, 
 some twenty years — mere than twenty years ago. 
 Well, sir, I ask all those who hear me whether 
 there is one among them who doubts whether the 
 condition of Austria being at this moment per- 
 fectly solid, secure, and harmonious through the 
 enormous difficulties she has had to contend with 
 on account of the boundless diversity of races — 
 whether it be perfectly unanimous or not in every 
 minute particular. This at least cannot be ques- 
 tioned, that it is a condition of solidity and of 
 safety, compared with the time when Hungary 
 made war upon her — war which she was unable 
 to bear (cheers), when she owed the cohesion of 
 the body politic to the interference of Russian 
 arms, and when at the same time she had a per- 
 fect legislative union and a supreme Par- 
 liament sitting from year to year (cheers). 
 Now, sir, the truth is I have quoted 
 these illustrations, which show, not that 
 what we are called upon to consider can be done, 
 but that eventually mere can be done, and has 
 been done, under circumstances far less favour- 
 able. What was the case of Sweden and Norway, 
 two small countries — Norway undoubtedly with 
 an inferior population, but still unassailable in her 
 mountain fastnesses ? What was the case of 
 Sweden and Norway for bringing about a union 
 by physical and material means ? There were no 
 means to be used but. 
 
 MORAL MEANS, 
 
 and those moral means have been completely suc- 
 cessful. What, again, was the case of Austria 
 when the seat of the Empire in the Arch-Duchy 
 was associated, not with the majority, but the 
 minority of the population, and when ,sho had to 
 face Hungary with numbers far greater than 
 her own, and even there, while having to attempt 
 
5 
 
 what was eventually more complex and more 
 dangerous than even prejudice can suppose to be, 
 that which I am now about to suggest — even 
 there is it not denied that a great relative success 
 has been attained. I know that many gentlemen 
 near me have read the valuable work of Professor 
 Dycey on the Law of the Constitution. No work 
 that I have ever read brings out in a more distinct 
 and emphatic manner the peculiarities of the 
 British constitution on one point to which per- 
 haps we seldom have occasion to refer, namely, 
 THE ABSOLUTE SUPREMACY OF PARLIAMENT. 
 
 We have a Parliament to the power of which 
 there are no limits whatever, except such 
 as human nature, in the divinely or- 
 dained condition of things, imposes. We 
 are faced by no co-ordinate Legislature. We 
 are bound by no statutory condition. There is 
 uothing that controls us and nothing that compels 
 us except our convictions of law, of right, and ©f 
 justice. Surely that is a favourable point of de- 
 parture iu considering a question such as this. I 
 have referred to the eighteenth century. During 
 that century you had besides a co-ordinate 
 Legislature. 
 
 THE LEGISLATURE OF IRELAND 
 before the Union had the same title as that of 
 Great Britain. There was no judicial distinction 
 whatever to be drawn between them. Even in 
 point of antiquity they were as nearly as possible 
 upon a par, for the Parliament of Ireland had sub- 
 sisted for 500 years. It had asserted its exclusive 
 right to make laws for the people of Ireland. 
 That right was never denied, for gentlemen ought 
 to recollect what all don’t, perhaps, remember, 
 that Poyning’s law was an Irish law imposed by 
 Ireland on herself (hear, hear). But that claim of 
 the Parliament of Ireland was never denied till 
 the reign of George II. A claim denied in the 
 reign of George II was admitted in the reign of 
 George III (hear, hear). The great Parliament of 
 Great Britain had to retract its words and to 
 withdraw its claim, and the Legislature which 
 went by the name of the Gra+tan Parliament was 
 as independent in point of authority as any Legis- 
 lature in the wide world (cheers). We are not 
 called upon to constitute another co-ordinate 
 Legislature : and while as I think it is right to 
 modify the Union in some particulars, we are 
 NOT ABOUT TO PROPOSE A CO-ORDINATE 
 LEGISLATURE. 
 
 What is the essence of the Union ? That is the 
 question. It is impossible to determine what is 
 and what is not the Repeal of the Union until you 
 have settled what is the essence of the Union. I 
 define the essence of the Union to be this — that' 
 before the Act of Union there were 
 
 two independent separate co-ordinate Par- 
 liaments ; after the Act of Union there 
 was but one. The supreme statutory 
 authority of the Imperial Parliament over Great 
 Britain, Scotland, and Ireland, as one United 
 Kingdom, was established by the Act of Union 
 with supreme statutory authority. It is not 
 asked so far as I am aware, and certainly it is not 
 intended in the slightest degree to impair it (hear, 
 hear, and cheers). When I heard the hon member 
 for Cork, in a very striking speech which he made 
 at the commencement of this session, in which he 
 asked for what I think he termed “ local ” 
 autonomy, or Irish autonomy, I felt that 
 something was gained in the conduct of 
 this great question, I felt that Ireland, if 
 he speaks, as I believe he speaks, 
 
 the mind of the vast majority of her 
 
 representatives (loud and prolonged Irish cheers). 
 I have no right to question for a moment that the 
 
 vast majority of* the representatives of Ireland 
 speak the mind of a decided majority of the 
 people (loud Irish cheers). I felt, sir, something 
 had been gained, that Ireland had come a great 
 way to meet U3 (a laugh), and it was, sir, our 
 duty, and more than our duty, to consider 
 whether we could not go some way to meet her 
 (loud Irish and Radical cheers). A great deal has 
 been said about the dismemberment of the em- 
 pire ; but to speak in connection with any medi- 
 tated or possible plan to be brought before this 
 house as a plan for the dismemberment of the 
 empire is in the face of the history of the 
 eighteenth century not merely a misnomer but 
 AN ABSURDITY- 
 
 (Cheers.) Some opinions I do not refer to 
 because I do not think they accurately 
 describe the case, and they might open the door 
 to a new debate. We hear of national independ- 
 ence, we hear of legislative independence, we hear 
 of an independent Parliament, we hear of federal 
 arrangements, but these are not descriptions 
 which I adopt, nor which I find it necessary to 
 discuss. Then again under a sense of the real 
 necessity of the case, there are gentle- 
 men who have their own philanthropic 
 and well-intended plans for meeting this emer- 
 gency. There are those who say, “ let us abolish 
 the Castle.” I think g^tlemen of very high 
 authority who are strongly opposed to giving 
 Ireland a domestic legis'ature say, nevertheless 
 that they think there ought to be a general re- 
 construction of the administrative Government 
 in Ireland (cheers). Now, sir, I am not going 
 into that question, but what I want to know is, 
 how without a change in the legislature and 
 without 
 
 GIVING IRELAND A DOMESTIC LEGISLATURE 
 there is to be, or ever can possibly be. a recon- 
 struction of the Government of Ireland (Irish 
 cheers). We have sent to Ireland to administer 
 the actual system the best men we could 
 find (hear, hear). When Lord Spencer took 
 office (oh, and cheers), he represented, not in 
 our belief merely, but to our knowledge — for we 
 have known him long — the flower of the aristo- 
 cracy — that portion of the aristocracy which to 
 high birth and to great influence in station is 
 combined a love of liberty of the people as 
 genuine a,s that which breathes within any cot- 
 tage in the land (cheers). And yet, sir, what is 
 the result ? The result is that after a life of 
 almost unexampled devotion to the public ser- 
 vice in Ireland Lord Spencer’s Administrationnot- 
 ouly does not command, which is more easily un- 
 derstood, the adhesion and commendation of the 
 hon member for Cork ; but it is made the 
 subject of cavil and censure in this 
 house of Parliament, and from the spot where 
 I now stand (long and loud Irish cheers). 
 I want to know how we can come to conclusions 
 until making a careful examination of the conclu- 
 sions of other people. I want to know how it is 
 possible to construct a domestic system of Home 
 Rule without a legislature, and what gentlemen 
 mean when they speak of legislation. The Par- 
 liament of Irish legislature, if it has a future, is 
 that the spring and coming and source — the 
 motor muscle, if I may so express it — is English. 
 Without providing a domestic legislature for Ire- 
 land with a view to Irish purposes, 1 want to 
 know how you will bring about this wonderful, 
 superhuman — I believe impossible — result — that 
 your administrative system shall be Irish, and 
 nothing else ? Then there is another most elabo- 
 rately-designed proposal for according to Ireland 
 the management of education, of public 
 
G 
 
 ■works, the management of one subject or 
 another — things which are very important 
 in themselves — under a central elective hierarchy. 
 This would be a great boon and would be very 
 gladly accepted, and the system that would be 
 •created under it tried had it been the desire and 
 demand of Ireland. I do not think such a scheme 
 would have possessed 
 
 THE ADVANTAGE OP FINALITY 
 (hear, hear). It might if it had been accepted, 
 and especially if it had been freely suggested 
 from that quarter by the Irish representatives 
 have furnished a very useful modus vivcndi. But 
 it is absurd, in my opinion, to talk of the adop- 
 tion of such a scheme in the face of two obstacles 
 — first of all, that those whom it is intended to 
 benefit do not want it (loud and prolonged Home 
 Rule cheeys). They do not ask it (renewed Irish 
 cheers). They refuse it. And, secondly, the ob- 
 stacle not less important, that although 
 we are fearful of giving a domestic Legis- 
 lature to Ireland, they would naturally and 
 emphatically, and justly say, “ We are 
 not going to create your central board and palter 
 with this question, because wo feel certain it will 
 affirm nothing in the world except to give occa- 
 sion for further change, while it will not give the 
 advantage of settling the question. What we ask 
 is a settlement of the question, and we propose to 
 settle it. We think we find that settlement in 
 the establishment by the authority of Parliament 
 of 
 
 A LEGISLATIVE BODY TO SIT 
 IN DUBLIN 
 
 (loud Home Rule cheers) for the conduct, 
 both legislative and administrative, under con- 
 ditions which may be prescribed by act of the 
 Irish as distinguished from Imperial affairs (re- 
 newed cheers). There is the ‘ head and front of 
 our offending.’” Let us proceed to examine the 
 matter a little further. The essential condition 
 of any plan that Parliament can be expected or 
 be asked to entertain is, in my opi- 
 nion, that the unity of the empire 
 
 shall not be placed in jeopardy (Ministerial cheers 
 and Opposition counter cheers, mingled with 
 cries of “Oh.”) The safety of the whole, if there 
 is unfortunately to be a conflict, which I do not 
 "believe, and the welfare of the whole, and secondly 
 there must be provided security of the past 
 (cheers.) The political equality of the three 
 countries must be maintained. They stand by 
 statute on a footing of absoute equality, and that 
 footing ought not to be altered or brought into 
 question. There should be what I wifi now 
 affirm 
 
 AN EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF IMPERIAL 
 BURDENS. 
 
 (Next I introduce a provision which may seem to 
 be exceptional, but which under the particular 
 circumstances of Ireland, whose history un- 
 happily has been one long chain of internal con- 
 troversies as well as differences, there must 
 be reasonable 
 
 SAFEGUARDS FOR THE MINORITY 
 
 (general cheers). I am asked why should there 
 be safeguards for a minority. Will not the mi- 
 nority in Ireland, as in other countries, best take 
 care of itself ? Are not free institutions with ab- 
 solute . publicity the best security that can be 
 given to any minority ? I answer that in the 
 iong run, and after experience, and after wo have 
 passed through the present critical period, and 
 
 obviated and disarmed, if we can, the jealousies 
 with which the approach of any change is attended, 
 I believe, as most gentlemen in this house may 
 probably believe, that there is nothing com- 
 parable to the healthy action of free dis- 
 cussion by minorities asserting in the face 
 of day their just rights, and that that is the 
 best mode of guarantee for their obtaining them. 
 But we have not yet reached to that stage (Oppo- 
 sition cheers). There are three classes to which 
 we must look on this occasion without entering 
 into details. I will not say a word on the sub- 
 ject to-day. We must consider the class imme- 
 diately connecte with the land, a secondary ques- 
 tion not offering very, I think, great difficulties; 
 but still where perhaps our treatment the fact 
 of touching it at all would be somewhat excep- 
 tional ; what relates to the Civil Service 
 offices of the Government in Ireland. The 
 third has relation to what is commonly 
 called the Protestant minority, and especially that 
 important part of the community which inhabits 
 the province, or the larger portion of it, which 
 predominates (Home Rule cries of “ Ho”), which 
 then predominates in a considerable portion of 
 Ulster (hear, hear, and laughter). I have no in- 
 tention of introducing anything contentious, nor 
 do I wish to exaggerate the case in any way. 
 How, sir, here I will deviate from my path 
 for a moment to say a word upon the state 
 of opinion in that wealthy, intelligent, en- 
 ergetic portion of the Irish community 
 which I have said predominates in a certain 
 part of Ulster. Our duty is to adhere to sound 
 general principles, but to give the utmost con- 
 sideration we can to the opinions of that energetic 
 community. The first thing, sir, that I wish to say 
 is, that if upon any occasion by any individual or 
 section 
 
 MEASURES ARE THREATENED 
 with certain alternatives, I think the best com- 
 pliment we can pay to those who have so 
 threatened, is for us to take no notice whatever 
 of the matter, but to treat them as momentary 
 effusions which will pass away with the fear out 
 of which they sprang, and at the same time to 
 adopt on our part; every reasonable measure 
 to disarm these fears (cheers). I cannot 
 say it is otherwise than unconstitutional when 
 five sixths of its lawfully ehosen representa- 
 tives are of one mind in this matter (cheers). 
 Certainly, sir, it cannot be admitted that a Pro- 
 testant majority in Ulster or elsewhere should 
 govern or rule the question at large for Ireland. 
 I am aware of no constitutional tribunal upon 
 which such a resolution could be adopted if laid 
 before this house. 
 
 VARIOUS SCHEMES. 
 
 Various schemes relating or referring to different 
 parts of Ireland at large have been proposed on the 
 part of Ulster. One scheme is that Ulster itself, 
 or with perhaps more appearance of reason, a 
 portion of Ulster, should be excluded from the 
 bill we are about to introduce ; another scheme 
 is that a separate autonomy should be pro- 
 vided for Ulster, or a portion of it ; 
 another scheme is that certain rights with 
 regard to certain subjects, such as education and 
 some other matters, should be reserved, and 
 should be placed, to a certain extent, under t he 
 control of different departments. These, I think, 
 are the suggestions which have reached me. 
 What I wish to say is this — that there is no one 
 which has appeared to us to be so completely 
 justified, either by its merits or by other circum- 
 stances, as to warrant our introducing it into a 
 bill we are proposing to Parliament upon our own 
 
7 
 
 authority (Nationalist cheers). What we think 
 is that such suggestions deserve careful and un- 
 prejudiced consideration. It may be that the full 
 discussion, which no doubt will largely take place 
 after a bill such as we propose shall have been laid 
 on the table — it may be that the discussion may 
 give to one of these proposals a practical 
 form, and that some such plan may be 
 greeted with approval. If it should be so, it 
 would at our hands have the most favourable 
 consideration as to the equity of the matter. 
 That is what I have to say upon the subject of 
 Ulster. I will add only this, that I consider that 
 the great 
 
 SETTLEMENT OF 1782 
 
 ■was not a real settlement (National cheers). And 
 why was it not a real settlement ? (Renewed Na- 
 tional cheers), It was the mistaken policy of 
 England listening to the pernicious voice and 
 claims of ascendancy in Ireland (hear, hear). I 
 pause to say a word for the 
 
 PROTESTANT PARLIAMENT OF IRELAND. 
 Founded as it was on a narrow suffrage, exclusive 
 in religion, crowded with pensioners and place- 
 men, labouring under almost every disadvan- 
 tage, yet it had in it a spark at least of 
 the spirit of true patriotism (hear, hear). 
 It emancipated Roman Catholics in Ireland when 
 Roman Catholics in England were not yet eman- 
 cipated (hear, hear). It received Lord Fitzwilliam 
 with open arms when Lord Fitzwilliam promoted 
 to the best of his ability the introduction of 
 Roman Catholics into Parliament ; and when his 
 brief career was unhappily intercepted by a per- 
 emptory recall to England, what happened ? Why, 
 that in both houses of the Irish Parliament votes 
 were passed by these Protestants — these men of 
 exclusion — by these men, mixed as they were 
 with so large an infusion of pensions and places — 
 yet in both houses votes were passed at onfee on 
 the recall of Lord Fitzwilliam expressing confi- 
 dence in that nobleman, and desiring he should be 
 left to administer the Government (hear). This 
 was the action of the Irish Parliament when Lord 
 Fitzwilliam was promoting the admission of 
 Roman Catholics into Parliament, and I say it 
 justifies me in saying there was a spirit that, if 
 free scope had been left it, would in all probabi- 
 lity have worked out a happy solution of every 
 Irish problem and saved the coming generation an 
 infinity of controversy and grief (cheers). Well, 
 sir, I pass on to ask how we are to set about 
 giving effect to the propositions I have made, the 
 purpose I have defined, 
 
 TO ESTABLISH IN IRELAND A DOMESTIC 
 LEGISLATURE 
 
 to deal with Irish as contradistinguished from 
 Imperial affairs. And here, sir, we are confronted 
 at the outset by what I have felt to be a formid- 
 able dilemma, which I will explain to the house 
 as well as I can. Ireland is to have a domestic 
 legislature for Irish affairs. That is my postulate, 
 that is the postulate from which I set out. Are 
 Irish members in this house — are Irish repre- 
 sentative peers still to continue to form part of 
 our Imperial Assembly ? That is the first part of 
 the questioh that meets us in connection with the 
 proposition I have made. No. I think it will be 
 perfectly clear that if Ireland is to have a domestic 
 Legislature, Irish peers and 
 
 IRISH REPRESENTATIVES CANNOT COME HERE 
 to control English and Scotch affairs (hear, hear). 
 That, I understand, gentlemen admit (hear, hear). 
 I have never heard of them urging the contrary. 
 I am inclined to believe it will be univer- 
 sally admitted (hear, hear). One thing fol- 
 lows from another. There being a domestic 
 
 Legislature in Ireland, Irish Peers and Irish 
 representatives should not take part in the 
 Parliament at Westminster on English and 
 Scotch questions. My next question is, is it 
 practicable for Irish representatives to come here 
 to take part in settling, not English and Scotch, 
 but 
 
 IMPERIAL MATTERS ? 
 
 In principle it would be very difficult, I think, 
 to object to that proposition ; but then its accept- 
 ance depends entirely on our arriving at a con- 
 clusion that in this house we can draw, 
 for practical purposes, a distinguishing and 
 distinct line between affairs which are Im- 
 perial and affairs which are not Imperial. 
 It would not be difficult to say in principle, as 
 the Irish Legislature will have nothing to do with 
 the Imperial Legislature, “ let Irish members 
 come here and vote on Imperial concerns.” It all 
 depends on the practicability of the distinction. 
 I have thought much, reasoned much, inquired 
 much with regard to that distinction. I have 
 hoped it might be possible to draw and arrive 
 at the conclusion, but it could not be drawn. I 
 believe it passes the wit of man ; but at any rate 
 it passes not my wit alone, but that of any gentle- 
 men with whom I have communicated. It will be 
 easy to exhibit a case, for example, the difficulty 
 in my opinion arises from this — If this were 
 merely a legislative house, or if the House 
 of Lords were merely a legislative house — 
 but this house affords the best illustration — 
 I don’t think it would be difficult to draw 
 the distinction ; we are, in fact, going to draw 
 the distinction in the bill which I have asked 
 leave to lay on the table for legislative purposes 
 with reference to what I hope will be the domestic 
 legislation of Ireland. But this is not a legisla- 
 tive house — it is a house controlling the Execu- 
 tive, and it is when you come to the control of 
 the Executive that your distinction between Im- 
 perial and non-imperial subjects totally breaks 
 down. For example, suppose it be a question of 
 FOREIGN POLICY. 
 
 Suppose Irish members in this house coming here 
 to vote on a question of foreign policy — is it pos- 
 sible to deny that they would be entitled to take 
 part in discussing an address to the Crown for the 
 dismissal of the Foreign Minister. It is impossible 
 to deny and separate the right of im- 
 pugning the policy from the right of action 
 against the Minister. If on that ground members 
 might take part in an address for dismissing a 
 Foreign Minister, I want to know, considering the 
 collective responsibility of the Government, a 
 principle which I hope will always be maintained 
 on the very highest level that circumstances 
 will permit, for I am convinced the public 
 honour and welfare are closely associated 
 with it — if that be so what would 
 be the effect of the dismissal of a Foreign 
 Minister on the existence of the action of the 
 Government to which he, belongs. The Govern- 
 ment in nineteen cases out of twenty — in perhaps 
 twenty cases out of twenty — would break down, 
 and when these gentlemen, sent here for the pur- 
 pose of discussing Imperial matters alone, could 
 dislodge the Imperial Government which i3 
 charged with the care of the interests of England 
 and Scotland, I ask you what becomes of the distinc- 
 tion between Imperial and non -Imperial matters * 
 But I believe that to be impossible (hear, hear), 
 and I arrive at this conclusion, that Irish mem- 
 bers and peers cannot, if domestic legislation is 
 given to Ireland, be allowed advantageously to 
 remain to sit in Parliament (choers). But if 
 Irish members do not sit in this house, and Irish 
 
8 
 
 peeis not sit in the other house, 
 
 HOW IS IRELAND TO BE TAXED ? 
 
 Of course I assume we should propose, as a matter 
 of course, that a general power of taxation should 
 pass to the domestic legislature of Ireland (Irish 
 cheers). But th*»re is one other important branch 
 of taxation, involving, indeed, a second branch, 
 which is susceptible of being viewed in a very dif- 
 ferent aspect from the taxation of Ireland gener- 
 ally — I mean the duties of customs and the duties 
 of excise relatively to customs. One thing I take 
 to be absolutely certain — Great Britain will never 
 enforce on Ireland taxation without representa- 
 tion, and if we do not do that then comes another 
 question of the deepest practical interest. Are 
 we to give up 
 
 THE FISCAL UNITY OF THE EMPIRE ? 
 
 I see it sometimes argued that if we give up the 
 fiscal unity of the empire we give up the unity of 
 the empire itself. To that I do not subscribe 
 (cheers). I do not think the unity of the empire 
 in principle rests entirely on the supremacy of 
 Parliament, but upon something higher. Although 
 I canuot stand on the very substantial grounds 
 of principle yet upon the ground of practice to 
 give up the practice of fiscal unity of the Empire 
 would be a very great public inconvenience, and a 
 very great public misfortune (cheers.) It would 
 be a great misfortune for Great Britain, and I 
 believe it would be a still greater misfortune to 
 Ireland to have the fiscal unity of the Empire put 
 to the hazard, and practically abandoned (hear, 
 hear). I must say also that, looking as I do 
 with the hope that the success of the measure 
 which I now propose (cheers), and, at any rate, 
 following the highest legislation, not to do any- 
 thing, not to propose anything, without a neces- 
 sity, will greatly endanger it. I fear that there 
 would be a danger if it were attempted to sever 
 the fiscal unity of the empire, because a proper 
 apprehension of the point would not be present in 
 the minds of Englishmen and Scotchmen. There 
 is the dilemma as I have here presented it to you, 
 and the question is how to get rid of it. Then 
 there comes another point, and that is 
 
 SHOULD THE ENTIRE PROCEEDS OF CUSTOMS AND 
 EXCISE 
 
 be held for the benefit of Ireland, for the dis- 
 charge of her obligations, and for the payment of 
 any balance into an Irish Exchequer to 
 remain at the power of the Irish legis- 
 lative body (hear, hear). But, sir, there 
 is still another point which I think ought 
 to engage our minds, and may justly engage our 
 anxious attention, in particular that of the repre- 
 sentatives of Ireland, and it is this — the proposal 
 I have sketched is, that we should pass an act 
 giving to Ireland an enormous boon, a statutory 
 Parliament having the control of Irish affairs 
 both legislative and administrative, but one of 
 the provisions of that act is the 
 
 WITHDRAWAL OF IRISH REPRESENTATIVE PEERS 
 FROM THE HOUSE OF LORDS 
 and of Irish members from the House of Com- 
 mons. But, then, I think it would virtually 
 occur to the Irish, as it would to 
 
 the English, and certainly to the Scotch mind, 
 what is to become of the privileges conferred by 
 the act if the Scotch ‘members, who were their 
 natural guardians, are withdrawn from this 
 house? (A cry, “The Irish members”)— I 
 
 thought I could bring home my views to the mind 
 of hon gentlemen by supposing that Scotland had 
 desired a domestic legislation, which she lias never 
 had occasion to desire. Well, I think the Irish 
 
 should have securi y on that subject— security 
 that advantage will not be taken, so far as we can 
 preclude it,- of the absence of Irish representatives 
 from Parliament for the purpose of tampering 
 with any part of the boon which it is proposed to 
 confer on Ireland by that act. We must find a 
 method of dealing with this difficulty. I hope the 
 day may come when Ireland will have reason 
 to look on this act, adopted by Parliament as for 
 practical purposes her Magna Charta. But in 
 order that it should be a Magna Charta for Ire- 
 land, it is necessary that it should be assured and 
 secure against 
 
 UNLAWFUL INTERFERENCE 
 
 (cheers). Two cases at once occur to the mind. 
 There might be alterations of detail in a law of 
 this kind upon which everybody might be agreed. 
 It would, I think, be very absurd to require 
 either the construction or the reconstruction of a 
 cumbrous and difficult machinery to dispose of 
 cases of that kind, and therefore we propose that 
 the provisions of this act might be modified with 
 the concurrence of the Irish Legislature and in 
 conformity with an address to the Crown from an 
 Irish Legislature — that is for cases where there is 
 general agreement; but it might happen that the 
 sagacity and foresight brought to bear on this 
 subject might prove to have been insufficient, 
 and that material amendments might 
 have been found necessary, and upon these 
 amendments there might be difference of opinion, 
 and for that case it might be proper to provide 
 beforehand so as to give effectual satisfaction. 
 We propose, then, that 
 
 THE PROVISIONS OF THIS ACT SHOULD NOT BE 
 ALTERED 
 
 except on an address from the Irish Legislature 
 to the Crown, such as I have described, or else 
 by replacing and recalling the full machinery 
 under which the Irish representatives now sit 
 here and the Irish peers in the House of Lords, 
 so that when their case came to be tried they 
 might have the same means of defending their con- 
 stitutional rights which they now possess (cheers 
 (and interruption). I admit that it is a serious pro- 
 position, but it is one of those improbable cases 
 which are often best averted by making good pro- 
 vision for dealing with them if they arise. Very- 
 well; it is upon that footing which I have now 
 endeavoured to describe that we propose to re- 
 lieve Irish peers and representatives from attend- 
 ance at Westminster, and at the same time to 
 preserve the absolute fiscal unity of the Empire. 
 Let me say, sir, that there are other reasons that 
 incline Irishmen to adopt an arrangement of 
 this kind. If you have Irish representatives in this 
 house at the same time that a domestic legislature 
 is sitting in Ireland, I think the presence of those 
 Irish representatives would have some tendency 
 to disparage the domestic legislature. I think 
 serious difficulties would arise besides that insur- 
 mountable difficulty I have pointed out. Some 
 of these difficulties would occur in connection 
 with the division of subjects. If it were possible 
 to divide the subjects, which I think it is not, 
 what an anomaly it would be, what a mu- 
 tilation of all our elementary ideas 
 about the absolute equality of members 
 in thift house were we to have ordinarily amongst 
 us two classes of members, one of them qualified 
 to vote upon all kinds of business, another quali- 
 fied only to vote here and there upon particular 
 kinds of business, and obliged to submit to some 
 new criterion or other, say the authority of the 
 chair, novel to such a purpose and difficult to ex- 
 ercise, in order to determine what kinds of busi- 
 
9 
 
 ness they could vote upon and what they must 
 abstain from voting upon. There would be 
 ANOTHER DIFFICULTY, 
 
 I think in determining what the number of these 
 members should be; my belief is that there would 
 be great jealousy. In the habitual presence of 
 103 Irish members in this house, even for limited 
 purposes, after a legislative body had been con- 
 structed in Ireland, and on the other hand I can 
 very well conceive that Irishmen would object to 
 a reduction or a material reduction in these mem- 
 bers. I sorrowfully admit another difficulty. 
 Ireland has not had the practice in local self-Go- 
 vernment that has been given to England and Scot- 
 land (Home Rule cheers). We have unfortunately 
 shut her out from that (renewed Home Rule 
 cheers) — ineffectually in some respects, jealously 
 and niggardly in others — and it might be very 
 different for Ireland in her present state of things 
 to man a Legislative chamber in Dublin and at 
 the same time have in this house that array of 
 
 SO MUCH DISTINGUISHED ABILITY 
 as I think all parties will admit has been ex- 
 hibited on the part of Ireland during recent Par- 
 liaments on these benches (hear, hear). Well, 
 sir, I may pass from this portion of the 
 question, having referred to those two 
 vital propositions as essential parts of the 
 foundation of the bill by which it is pro- 
 posed that Irish representation in the Parliament 
 at Westminster should cease, unless in the con- 
 tingent case, and I hope hardly possible case, to 
 which I have referred, and that the fiscal unity of 
 the empire should be absolutely maintained. My 
 next duty is to state to the house what would be 
 the 
 
 POWER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODIES 
 proposed to be conceded. The capital article of 
 that legislative body would be that it should have 
 control of the Executive Government in Ireland, 
 as well as of legislative business- I think there 
 was a flaw in the system of 1782. Adequate 
 provision was not made for that purpose 
 (hear, hear), and we should not like to leave a 
 flaw of such a nature in the work that we are 
 now about to undertake. In 1782 there were 
 difficulties that we have not now before us. At 
 that time it might fairly have been said that no 
 one could tell how a separate legislature would 
 work when it had under its own control what is 
 termed responsible government. We have no 
 such difficulty and no such excuse now. The 
 problem of responsible government has been 
 solved for us in our colonies (cheers). It works 
 very well. Perhaps in a dozen cases in different 
 quarters of the globe it works to our perfect 
 satisfaction. It may be interesting to the 
 house if I recall a fact that responsible go- 
 vernment of the colonies was first established 
 by one of our most distinguished statesmen (Earl 
 Russell) when he held office under the Govern- 
 ment of Lord Melbourne ; but it was a complete 
 departure from established tradition, and if I re- 
 member right, not more than two or three years 
 before that generous and wise experiment was 
 tried, Lord Russell had himself written a most 
 able despatch to show that it could not be done ; 
 that the government in the colonies would have 
 the two centres of gravity and two sources of 
 motion in the empire ; that the unity of the em 
 pire absolutely required that there should be but 
 one, and consequently that the proposition 
 could not be entertained. Such was the 
 view of the question while it was yet 
 
 •at a distance, and such perhaps may have 
 been our view on the subject I am discussing 
 while it was yet in view. I believe if we look 
 
 closely at its particulars we shall find that many 
 of the fears with which many have regarded it 
 are perfectly unreal, and especially that great ap- 
 prehension of all, the fear lest it should prove in- 
 jurious to what it is our first duty to maintain — 
 the absolute unity and integrity of the empire- 
 Then there is another point with regard to the 
 powers of the legislative body which I wisli to 
 mention specifically. Two courses might have 
 been followed — one would have been to endow 
 this legislative body with particular legislative 
 power, and the other is to except from the 
 sphere of its action those subjects which we 
 think ought to be considered, and to 
 leave out everything else, which is the 
 
 second of those plans which we have before us, 
 and everything not included in that enumeration, 
 will be open and left to the domestic Legislature. 
 As I have already said, the administrative power 
 by a responsible Government would pass under 
 ouiMwoposals with the legislative power. The 
 legMative body would be subject to the pro- 
 visions of the act, in the first place as to its own 
 composition. But we propose to introduce into 
 it, as I wiH presently explain, 
 
 TWO ORDERS, ALTHOUGH NOT TWO HOUSES, 
 
 And we shall suggest that, with regard to the 
 popular order, which will be the more numerous, 
 the provisions of the act may be altered at any 
 period after the first dissolution, but with regard 
 to the other order — the less numerous order 
 of the two — the provisions of the act can only 
 be altered after the assent of the Crown 
 to an address from the legislative body for that 
 purpose. We should provide generally, and on 
 that I do not think there would be any differ- 
 ence’ of opinion, that this body should be subject 
 to all the prerogatives of the Crown, but we 
 should insert a particular provision to the effect 
 that its maximum duration without dissolution 
 should not exceed five years. I will now tell the 
 house, and I beg to call the particular attention 
 of the house to what will be _ very brief, what are 
 the functions we propose to withdraw from the 
 cognizance of this legislative body. The three 
 grand and principal functions, that everything 1 
 that relates to the Crown, succession, prerogative, 
 mode of administrating the powers during in- 
 capacity or the subject of regency, and, in fact, 
 all that belongs to the Crown. The next would, 
 be all that belongs to defence. The army, 
 the navy, the entire organisation of 
 armed force, which I shall touch upon by-and-by, 
 but everything that belongs to defence ; and the 
 third would be the entire subject of foreign and 
 colonial relations. These are subjects most pro- 
 perly Imperial, and, I may say, belong as 
 a matter of principle to the Legislature 
 established under the Act of Union and 
 sitting at Westminster. There are some 
 other subjects which I will very briefly 
 touch upon. In the first place, it would 
 not be competent for the domestic Legislature 
 of Ireland to alter the provisions of the act we are 
 now about to pass-— as I hope (Opposition cheers), 
 and which I should ask that we should pass by the 
 consent of the three countries. It would not, 
 however, be competent to the Irish legislative 
 body to alter these provisions, except on points 
 where they are designedly left open as what I 
 may call the original contract on the subject. 
 There are certain contracts, but we do not propose 
 a universal disability; there are certain contracts 
 made in Ireland under circumstances so peculiar 
 that we think that we ought to except them from 
 the action of the legislative body, and there are 
 also some analagous provisions made with respect 
 
to charters anterior to the act which, in our 
 opinion, ought only to be altered ofter the assent 
 of the Crown to an address from the legislative 
 body for that purpose. Well, sir, there is 
 ANOTHER DISABILITY 
 
 that we propose to lay upon the legislative body, 
 and it is one of those in respect to which I am 
 bound to say that in my oelief there is no real 
 apprehension that the thing would be done which 
 it precludes, but at the same time, though there 
 may not be a warranted apprehension, there may 
 be honest apprehension, and all these honest 
 apprehensions it is our duty to consider so far as 
 we are able. We propose to provide that the le- 
 gislative body should not pass a law for the 
 ESTABLISHMENT OR THE ENDOWMENT OF ANY 
 PARTICULAR RELIGION 
 
 (loud cheers). This I may call a question of 
 principle. Then three questions of what I may 
 call practical necessities. First there is a ques- 
 tion of j* 
 
 TRADE AND NAVIGATION. * 
 
 x assume that it would be a great calamity for 
 Ireland to be separated from Great Britain in 
 these matters (cheers). The question of taxation 
 in relation to trade and navigation I have already 
 mentioned. The remarks apply to the subject of 
 coinage and legal tender. Ireland might have 
 thought fit to pass a law providing for the exten- 
 sion of private issues, and providing that no bank- 
 note should be issued in Ireland except With 
 authority and for the benefit of the State (hear 1 
 bear). I think that Ireland would do a most 
 sensible thing if she did make such an arrange- 
 ment, and we might also advantageously have 
 such an arrangement : but the block from 
 
 ■which we have been suffering in Parliament 
 has prevented that and many other good things 
 which we hope we are going to have in the 
 future (cheers and laughter). I merely say this, 
 however, as an illustration to show that we ought 
 not to needlessly limit the free action of the Irish 
 legislature on Irish matters. Then there are 
 other subjects, such as weights and measures and 
 copyright, which need not be discussed now, and 
 there is one important subject which I propose to 
 leave completely open to the judgment of Ire- 
 land, and that is 
 
 THE POST OFFICE. 
 
 I am proud to say that it is our judgment that it 
 would be for the convenience and for the interests 
 and for the convenience of the country that the 
 Post Office should remain under the authority of 
 the Postmaster-General, but there is nevertheless 
 the fact that the Post Office requires an army of 
 servants, and Ireland may not wish to see the 
 regulations connected with the appointment of 
 that unarmed army left to English authority. 
 Therefore we leave that question open in the bill 
 (hear, hear) to be dealt with by Ireland if she 
 should see fit. There are some other questions 
 which stand in the same category. That is a fair 
 description of purposed Irish legislation. I come 
 next to the 
 
 COMPOSITION OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY 
 we propose to provide for it. 1 refer to pro- 
 tection of minorities. We might constitute a le 
 gislative body for Ireland by a very brief and 
 simple enactment. If we were to say that the 103 
 members now representing Ireland, and say 103 
 more members elected by the same constituencies, 
 should constitute the one and only legislative 
 house in Ireland with the introduction of what I 
 may call the dual element ; but we are of opinion 
 that if a proposal of the kind were made 
 it would he said that in the first place it 
 ■did not provide sufficient protection for minorities 
 
 In the second place it must be that some better 
 provision should be introduced to ensure that re- 
 gard for stability and consistency in the conduct 
 of the complete work of legislation than could 
 possibly be supplied by a single set of men elected 
 under absolutely secret influence. In that regard, 
 sir, we propose to introduce into this legislative 
 body what may be termed 
 
 TWO ORDERS. . 
 
 Those orders would sit and deliberate together. 
 There would be power on the demand of either 
 ‘order for separate voting. The effect of that 
 separate voting would be that while the veto was 
 in force, while it stood as a bar to the enactment 
 of a bill, there would be an absolute veto of one 
 order. Such a veto in our view must be salutory 
 and useful for the purpose of ensuring delibera- 
 ation and consistency with adequate consideration 
 in the businsss of making laws, but it ought not to 
 be perpetual. If it were perpetual it might eon*- 
 ceivably arise, and as we may almost say we have 
 seen it arise in certain cases in one particular in the 
 Colonies, where there were two perfectly inde- 
 pendent orders. Wh:' we therefore propose is 
 that this veto shall only be jnade operative for a 
 limited time, or until a dissolution, or for a 
 period of three years, whichever might be the 
 longer of the two. So much for the relations of 
 those orders, the one to the other. I may men- 
 tion that this institution of orders would be valu- 
 able, and is almost necessary, with a view to 
 maintain any form of control over a judicial body 
 known to us in this country, namely, the concur- 
 rence of two authorities chosen somewhat under 
 diff rent influences — the one I should like to 
 briefly call the composition of those orders. It 
 might not seem to many gentl men that if 
 we proceed in the path we are now opening 
 the proposals we are now making will affect 
 the 28 distinguished individuals who now occupy 
 the place of representative peers of Ireland. 
 It is not possible, we think, for them to continue 
 to hold their place in the House of Lords after 
 Irish representatives refrain from occupying a 
 place in the House of Commons. I do not say 
 that the precedent is an exact one, but the house 
 will remember that in the case of the disestab- 
 lishment of the Irish Church we did disable the 
 bishops who were entitled to sit in the House of 
 Lords from continuing to sit in the House of 
 Lords after the disestablishment of the Irish 
 Church. We do not wish to entail this personal 
 disal ility — we propose that those 28 peers shall 
 have the option, if they think fit, of forming 
 A PORTION OF THE FIRST ORDER 
 of the Irish Legislative Assembly (ironical cheers 
 from the Opposition, which were answered by vehe- 
 ment cheers from the Irish members), and that 
 they should have the power of sitting there(cheers). 
 There may be those who think this option will 
 not be largely used (laughter). I am not one of 
 that number (loud cheers). I believe that th© 
 Irish peers have an Irish as well as an Imperial 
 patriotism. In the eighteenth century the Irish? 
 peers were not ashamed of the part they played 
 in the Irish Parliament (Irish cheers). It was, I 
 think, the Duke of Leinster who moved the ad- 
 dress in the Irish House of Peers, which he car- 
 ried, expressing the confidence of that house in 
 Lord Fitzwilliam. I may be too sanguine, but I 
 say boldly that if we pass this bill under lmppy 
 circumstances, especially if it pass without 
 political exasperation, one of its effects would be 
 a great revival of the local as well as a great con- 
 firmation and extension of Imperial patriotism. 
 At any rate,*it is my duty to provide that the Irish 
 peers may form part of the Irish legislative body. 
 
11 
 
 There will be no disability entailed upon them, 
 for any Irish peer may be at once a member of 
 the Legislative Assembly and at the same time a 
 member of the House of Lords. In the last 
 century many distinguished men have sat in both, 
 and I believe we have still among the peers m^n 
 with that capacity which worked beneficially then 
 in an Irish Parliament. There is a difficulty, 
 however, to which I will refer, and that is to com- 
 bine the sitting of these peers for life with the 
 rest of the first order of the chamber. 
 We propose that the first order of members 
 should, to 
 
 THE NUMBER OF 75, 
 
 be elected by the Irish people under conditions 
 that we propose to specify in the schedule, but 
 which are not yet drawn up in detail. But I will 
 mention two grounds. -First, that the constituency 
 will be composed of persons rated occupiers of 
 £25 and upwards ; and -econd, that those meui- 
 beis would be elected for a period of ten years, 
 which in some cases which I need uot now explain 
 would be for a longer period, and they would be 
 elected upon a property qualification of £200 
 really or a personalty of £200, or a capital valiie 
 of £4,000. The peers would ultimately be re- 
 placed by 28 members elected under the system 
 created, for we cannot answer that all these 27 
 peers should die at the same time (laughter). 
 It is extremely difficult to devise any electoral 
 machinery for the purpose. We therefore propose 
 to grant to the Crown the power, limited to the 
 period when the present generation may very 
 fairly have been supnosed to be exhausted, the 
 right of filling their places by nomination not for 
 life, but down to a date fixed by the act. With 
 regard to the second order, its composition would 
 be, I think, simply formed by 
 
 DOUBLING THE 102 MEMBERS, 
 wlio now represent the cities and towns 
 of Ireland. The 103 who now represent those 
 cities and boroughs shall take their places in the 
 the Irish Legislative Parliament (laughter). We 
 shall always propose as nearly as possible to 
 duplicate that body. The extra 101 members we 
 propose should be selected by the, county districts, 
 the cities and towns in exactly the same maimer 
 as the present Irish members have been elected. 
 We shall likewise provide that in the event 
 of any refusal to sit taking place, the 
 places rendered vacant shall be filled up 
 under the machinery now existing. I want to 
 say a word with regard to Dublin University 
 We do no? propose to interfere with the existing 
 arrangements witb regard to Dublin University 
 one way or the other. We propose, however, that 
 the Royal University should have the power of 
 nominating two members, the effect of which 
 would be that the n timber of Irish members 
 would be 206 at the outside, or 204 if the Univer- 
 sity did not exercise their right of nomination. I 
 must say a few words upon the subject of 
 THE EXECUTIVE. 
 
 What we think most requisite with regard to the 
 Executive is, that in dealing with it our act should 
 be as elastic as possible. It is quite evident that 
 although the legislative' transitions can be made 
 by a single bill, the Executive transitions must 
 necessarily be carefully considered^ and will take 
 time. We propose, therefore, to leave everything 
 as it is until it is altered in the regular course, so 
 that there shall be no breach of continuity 
 in the government of the country ; 
 
 that on the one hand the representatives of the 
 old representative system, and on the other the 
 principles of representative Government freely 
 and fully conceded, and that spirit of responsible 
 
 Government would work itself out with every 
 necessary detail. It has often, sir, been proposed 
 to abolish the '■-'icevoyalty, and some gentlemen 
 have even been nuuguiue enough to believe that 
 by the abolition cf tho Viceroy you would solve 
 the Irish problem (a laugh). I must say that dis- 
 plays a faculty of belief far beyond any under- 
 standing or imagination to which I have ever 
 been able to aspire. We propose to leave 
 THE VICEROY 
 
 without interference by the act, except in the 
 particulars I am about to name. This office could 
 only be altered by statute. He would not be re- 
 presentative of a party (hear, hear). He would 
 not quit office with an outgoing Government. He 
 would have around him, as he has now in a cer- 
 tain form, a council or privy council to aid and 
 ’advise him. and within that privy council an ex- 
 ecutive body would form itself under the action of 
 the principle of responsible Government for the 
 purpose of administering the various offices of State 
 the Queen would be empowered to delegate to 
 him in case his office should be permanently con- 
 tinued, which I am far from believing unlikely 
 Those prerogatives she has or will have under the 
 act. Finally, we have not forgotten that his office 
 almost alone is still affected by one solitary out- 
 standing religious disability, a kind of Lot’s wife* 
 after everything else in connection with religious 
 disability is gone, and this we propose to remove 
 by the bill (oh, oh, and hear, hear). The next 
 point is with regard to 
 
 THE JUDGES OF THE SUPERIOR COURTS. 
 
 And here I draw $ personal distinction between 
 present and future judges. As regards the- 
 Judges ol the Superior Courts now holding office, 
 we desire to secure to them their position and their 
 emoluments in the same absolute form in which 
 they now exist, although they will become charge- 
 able on the Consolidated Fund of Ireland, which we 
 propose to constitute by the act, yet they would 
 retain also a lien oh the Consolidated Fund of 
 Great Britain. We propose that under the peculiar 
 circumstances of Ireland — we cannot forget that 
 some of these judges, by no fault of their own, 
 have been placed in relations more or less uneasy, 
 with influences, popular influences, and 
 which we may naturally suppose will be- 
 come the dominant influences in the future 
 We cannot overlook Irish history in framing the 
 provisions of this bill ; and we therefore propose, 
 both with regard to the judges now holding of- 
 fice and with regard to other persons who, in what 
 they deemed loyal service to the empire, have 
 been concerned in the administration and conduct 
 of the criminal law in Ireland — we propose 
 that her Majesty, lightly or wholesale, 
 but if she should see cause upon parti- 
 cular occasion, by an Order in Council, antedate 
 the pensions of these particular functionaries 
 (hear, hear). With regard to 
 
 FUTURE JUDGES 
 
 the whole matter will be more simple. We pro- 
 pose to provide that they should hold offiee during 
 good behaviour — those are the superior judges; 
 that their salaries should be charged on the Irish 
 Consolidated Fund; that they should be remov- 
 able only by a joint address from the two orders 
 of the Legislative Body; and that they should be 
 appointed, as a general rule, under the influence- 
 of the responsible Irish Government. There is 
 one exception which will require to be made ia 
 the case of 
 
 THE COURT OF EXCHEQUER, 
 which is the Court of Revenue Pleas. I will not 
 enter upon any detail now, but the enormous 
 financial relations which now subsist and- 
 
12 
 
 which will still subsit between Great 
 Britain and Ireland, if our measures be 
 carried, make us feel for reasons perhaps on 
 another occasion I shall more freely explain, 
 that it is necessary to keep a certain amount 
 of hold upon the Court of Exchequer, 
 or at least upon two of its members, hut as a 
 general rule the action of the judges will pass the 
 new Irish Executive, and will rest with them, just 
 as it has rested for the time with the old Irish 
 Executive. I mxist say a few words on the im- 
 portant subject of 
 
 THE CONSTABULARY 
 
 (hear, hear.) The substance of these words really 
 amounts to this — that I think that there re- 
 mains much for consideration in order to 
 devise the details of a good and a pru- 
 dent system, but we think it our first 
 duty to give a distinct assurance to the present 
 members of that distinguished and admirable 
 force that their position will not be put to preju- 
 dice by this act either in respect to their terms of 
 service or with regard to the authority under 
 which they are employed (cheers). The case of 
 THE DUBLIN POLICE 
 
 Is not quite the same, but we propose the same 
 conditions with respect to the Dublin police as far 
 at any rate as the terms of service are concerned. 
 With respect to local police I will say nothing, 
 because I don’t at pi-esent intend to anticipate 
 what may be matter hereafter either for free con- 
 sideration or discussion or for the action of the 
 Irish legislative body. There will be no breach 
 of continuity in the administration of the country 
 as to the police, One thing, sir, I cannot omit to 
 say — the Constabulary afford an admirable case — 
 and I don’t intend by what I am going to say to 
 qualify in the smallest degree what I have said, 
 but the Constabulary on its present footing ex- 
 hibits one of the most remarkable instances of 
 the waste of treasure of an enormous ex- 
 pense, not with good results but with 
 unhappy results (Irish cheers), under whicn 
 the civil ^government and the general 
 government of Ireland has been carried on. 
 With reference to the police, I ought to inform 
 the house that the Constabulary in Ireland costs 
 no less than 
 
 A MILLION AND A HALF OF MONEY A YEAR ; 
 
 And you must remember that Ireland is a cheaper 
 country than England in which to reside (hear, 
 hear). If, then, the police service was founded 
 upon the same system to that of England, and 
 organised in the same manner, there ought to be 
 a large saving of expense in this direction, and 
 our object is to bring about that result 
 (cheers). Now, the house may be surprised when 
 I tell them this — The present Constabulary of 
 Ireland costs £1,500,000 a year — every penny is 
 now paid out of the British Exchequer. If the 
 police of Ireland were organised on the same 
 principles and the same terms as the police of 
 England the cost, instead of being £1,500,000 a 
 year, would notexceed £600,000 (hear). Thatwill give 
 to the house some idea of the enormous charges 
 at which we have been govering Ireland under our 
 present system (hear, hear), and it also showed 
 how judicious reductions might be made (cheers). 
 Well, anticipate a vast reduction m expenditure 
 so far as the police is concerned. The charge is 
 now a million and a half. We propose that the 
 Consolidated Fund of Great Britain should for 
 the time relieve the Irish legislative body of all 
 expenditure in excess of a million and a half. I 
 am bound to say that I do not look upon a mil- 
 lion as a proper charge to be imposed (cheers). I 
 am perfectly convinced that the charge for police 
 
 will be reduced to a very much smaller sum, of 
 which Ireland will reap the benefit (hear, hear), 
 and there is one thing I must say we have no de- 
 sire to exempt the police of Ireland in its final 
 form from the ultimate control of the legislative 
 body. The arrangements upon this subject 
 have been made under the peculiar circumstances 
 of the country, but certainly we have no jealousy 
 in the subject, and I own I have a strong notion 
 that when the signs and recollections of the old 
 antipathies have been effectually obliterated, the 
 care of providing for the ordinary security of life 
 and property of citizens is the very first duty of 
 any good local governing body (cheers). With 
 respect to the civil service 
 generally, we have not touched that, and I have 
 already stated that the police would remain under 
 the present terms of service and authority. I 
 have said that possibly the Irish Parliament may 
 assume control over the change. That control 
 will, however, be prospective, and will not involve 
 any inquiry to actually existing rights. In future, 
 the Civil Service of the country will be absolutely 
 under the control of the Parliament sitting in 
 Dublin. The case of the present Civil Service is 
 not in all respects like that of the constabulary 
 or the judicial officers, and yet it is a great tran- 
 sition, and it will, no doubt, be the desire of the 
 Legislative Body oi Ireland very early to effect a 
 great economy in its establishments. We have, 
 therefore, considered in what wav we can at once 
 provide what is just for the civil servants of Ire- 
 land, and at the same time set free the hands of 
 the legislative body on this salutary work of 
 economy and retrenchment. Our opinion is that, 
 on the whole, it will be wise, in the joint 
 interest of both, to authorise the civil servants 
 now serving to claim the gratuity or pension 
 which would be due to them upon abolition of 
 office, and to provide that they shall serve not 
 less than two years to prevent an inconvenient 
 lapse in the practical business of the country, and 
 at the close of this two years both parties shall 
 be free to negotiate, the civil servants not being 
 bound to remain, and the legislative body in 
 Dublin being in no way bound to continue their 
 services. That is all I have to say on the subject 
 of the new Irish constitution. But I have still 
 to speak on matters on which some detail is re- 
 quisite. I refer to the subject of 
 FINANCE. 
 
 I have now to give a practical exposition of the 
 phrases which I have used — that we looked upon 
 it as an essential condition of our plan that there 
 should be an 
 
 EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF IMPERIAL CHARGES. 
 The meaning of that is, what proportion shall Ire- 
 land pay ? But I must remind lion gentlemen 
 before I enter on the next explanation that the 
 proportion to be paid is not the only one thing to 
 be considered. You must also consider the basis 
 upon which that proportionate payment is to be 
 made. At the Union it was intended that Ire- 
 land should pay 2-l7ths, or in the relation 
 of 1 to 7\ of the total charge of the 
 United Kingdom. The actual and true pay- 
 ment now made by the Irish taxpayer is 
 not as 1 to 7\ but as 1 to 12, or about 
 1 to 11 £. The proposal that I moke is that the 
 proportion chargeable to Ireland shall be 1 to 14 
 or l-loth. But then that will not be understood 
 until I come to join it with other particulars. I 
 will look, however, for a little to the question, 
 what are the best tests of the capacity to pay. 
 Many of these tests have been suggested. One of 
 which I conceive to be a very imperfect test 
 them ia the income tax. 
 
13 
 
 (liear, hear). The income tax I believe would give 
 » proportion not of 1 to 14 but of 1 to 19; and 
 this is to be borne in mind in regard to the income 
 tax, that while on the one hand it is made in 
 Ireland upon a io^er valuation than in England 
 and Scotland---of course in England, as we all 
 know, Schedule A is levied on the full rents, while 
 in Ireland it is levied upon a lower valuation than 
 in England or in Scotland. It is also unques- 
 tionable that many Irishmen hold securities for 
 which dividends are received in Loudon, and 
 which pay income tax, I hope (laughter) in most 
 cases before they come into the hands of the per- 
 sons entitled to them, so that it is almost a certainty 
 that a considerable sum ought to be added to the 
 Irish income tax, which would raise the propor- 
 tion of 1 to 19 to perhaps about 17. But there 
 are tests which, if not perfect, I consider to be far 
 superior to the income tax’s. One of them is the 
 test afforded us by 
 
 THE DEATH DUTIES, 
 
 not by the amounts levied, because the amounts 
 levied vary capriciously under the consanguinity 
 scale, but by the property passing under the 
 death duties, and the amount of property passing 
 under the death duties I conceive to be by no 
 means a bad test in this matter. Well, sir, the 
 amount of property passing under the 
 death duties, while it was £166,000,000 in Great 
 Britain, was £13,833,000 — nearly £14,000,000 — 
 In Ireland, which would give, I think, a relation 
 of one to twelve or one-thirteenth. Another test 
 by no means to be despised is the valuation of 
 the respective countries. But, then, that valua- 
 tion must not be made arbitrarily upon a par- 
 ticular portion of property. We must compare 
 the valuation of the entire visible property of one 
 country with the entire visible property of the 
 other. The comparison is again favourable 
 to Ireland, because, as I have said, the 
 valuation — I beg pardon — I have confounded the 
 two, and I must go back to the death duties. 
 The amount of property on which, on an average 
 of three years, the death duties fell was, for 
 Great Britain £117,000,000 and in Ireland 
 £12,908,000, or 1 to 13. These are the figures 
 for the property passing under the death duties, 
 and I have taken the three years since we entered 
 upon a somewhat new administration of the 
 death duties, and that is by far the best basis of 
 comparison I can find. It is when I come to the 
 valuation, which I find is also favourable to Ire- 
 land, inasmuch as Ireland is valued lower in pro- 
 portion to real value than England and much 
 lower than Scotland. It is there that the valua- 
 tion of the latest years of Great Britain, 
 £166,000,000, and of Ireland, £13,833,000, give a 
 proportion of one to 12 or one to 13. Under 
 these circumstances what have we to do ? In my 
 opinion we ought to make for Ireland 
 AN EQUITABLE ARRANGEMENT, 
 and I think when I propose to as- 
 
 sume what the proposition of one-fourteenth 
 will be it will be seen that it is an 
 equitable and even a generous arrangement. 
 I mention three considerations. The first of these 
 considerations is that if we start an Irish legis- 
 lative body, we must start it with some balance 
 to its credit (laughter and cheers) — we cannot 
 start it on a deficiency, but if we start it with a 
 balance to its credit, I know of no way except a 
 solitary £20,000 a year which still remains to be 
 worked out of the Church Surplus after all de- 
 mands have been made upon it — I know of no 
 Way of honestly manufacturing that balance, ex- 
 cept by carving it out of the Budget of the com- 
 ing year, and providing for the sum to which it 
 
 amounts at the expense, not, as it will then be, oJ 
 the Irish, but exclusively of the British and 
 Scotch taxpayers. That is one consideration. 
 The second consideration is this — I take this 
 fifteenth, or one to fourteen, for the purpose of 
 ascertaining what share Ireland is to pay to the 
 Imperial Executive. But when I said that Ire- 
 land now paid one to eleven and a-half or one in 
 twelve and a-half of the whole gross Imperial ex- 
 penditure — when I say that we shall ask her to 
 pay one-fifteenth of the Imperial expenditure in 
 future, that is of an Imperial expenditure 
 rather materially cut down — for upon considera- 
 tion it has been thought right, in computation 
 of military expenditure, to exclude from that alto- 
 gether what ought strictly to be called war 
 charges. We do not propose in fixing the future 
 Imperial contribution of Ireland to base the cal- 
 culation on the supposition of her share in the 
 charge analagous, for example, to the vote of 
 credit for 11 millions. Therefore, the proposition 
 of one in 15 or one-fifteenth, is to be applied to 
 a scalb of Imperial expenditure materially reduced. 
 But, sir, there is another consideration that I 
 think it right to mention, and it is this* This 
 Imperial contribution would be paid by Ireland 
 out of a fund composed, in fflae first instance, of 
 the entire receipts out of the Irish Exchequer. 
 But that, sir, is not a true test of the amount of 
 taxes paid by Ireland. There are goods which 
 pay duty in England which are exported, duty 
 paid, to Ireland, which are consumed in Ireland, 
 and upon which, therefore, the duty is really paid 
 by Irishmen, while the receipts go into the 
 English Exchequer (hear, hear). But then, sir 
 there is no room for a corresponding movement 
 the other way ; but there is a movement very 
 much larger and more important. 
 
 THE SPIRITS IN IRELAND 
 
 pay more than a million of duty; 1 think a million 
 and thirty thousand pounds is paid upou spirits 
 in Ireland that are exported to Great Britain. 
 Every shilling of that duty is really paid by Eng- 
 lishmen and Scotchmen, but at the same time the 
 whole receipt goes into the Irish Exchequer (hear). 
 The same thing holds with respect to porter 
 brewed in Ireland — the same thing holds with re- 
 gard to a very considerable manufacture of to - 
 bacco carried on in Ireland. We have made it 
 the object of our best efforts to ascertain how 
 much money Ireland loses to England by the 
 process which I have described, and which 
 I have no doubt is accordingly under- 
 stood by all the members of the house ; how 1 
 much money Ireland loses to Great Britain 
 by the flow of duty-paid commodities from 
 Great Britain to Ireland, and how much money 
 Greart Britain loses to Ireland by the flow from 
 Ireland to Great Britain, and the result of this in- 
 vestigation is (I state it with confidence, not as if 
 it were actually to be demonstrated on every 
 point by a Parliamentary return), but I state it 
 as a matter of certainty with regard to the far 
 greater portion of the sum, and substantially 
 as a matter subject to very little doubt — that 
 Ireland at this moment in Irish receipts gains 
 from Great Britain, by a process I have described, 
 more than Great Britain gains from Ireland, and 
 more 'to no less an amount than fourteen hundred 
 thousand pounds. That fourteen hundred 
 
 thousand being paid by the British 
 
 tax payers forms part of the Irish 
 receipts. If you maintain the fiscal union of 
 the Empire — if you do not erect, as I trust you 
 won’t erect, a custom house between Great 
 Britain and Ireland (hear, hear) — if yop are con- 
 tent to let things take their natural course accord • 
 
14 
 
 Jug to the ordinary natural movement of trade, 
 fourteen hundred thousand pounds will be paid to 
 the benefit of Ireland at the charge of the English 
 and Scottish taxpayer, and form a portion of the 
 fund out of which Ireland will defray the con- 
 tribution that we propose to levy; and if one in 
 fourteen which I have been describing, and the 
 Imperial contribution based upon it, comes to be 
 reduced by subtracting this fourteen hundred 
 thousand pounds, the fraction that comes out 
 would not be one- fourteenth, but I believe it 
 would be a fraction changed into a fraction of one 
 twenty-sixth. That is a very great change — that 
 is the benefit she gets, not owing to the state of 
 the law but owing to the course of trade. You 
 cannot take it away without breaking up the pre- 
 sent absolute freedom between the two countries, 
 and we do not ask you to take it away. I hope it 
 will be borne in mind by those who may have 
 thought the charge of one-fifteenth is a heavy 
 charge to impose upon Ireland, and you may 
 think, as I certainly do, that in a case of this kind, 
 , after all that has occurred, when t\vo countries 
 compared with a third are very strong and very 
 rich, wjien brought into comparison with one of 
 far more restricted means, the precautionary ar- 
 rangements that we make ought to be equitable, 
 and in some moderate degree bountiful, to Ireland. 
 Now, sir, it would be interesting to the house to 
 know what payment per camta in the place I have 
 described would be to the Englishman and to the 
 Briton — I say Briton because I know that Scotch- 
 men like to be called Britons, but do not like to 
 be called English (laughter). Now, if I were to 
 take the present contribution of Ireland to 
 the entire expenditure of the country according 
 to the receipts into the tivoExchequers, the inhabi- 
 tants in Great Britain pay per capita £2 10s, whilst 
 The inhabitants in Ireland pay £1 13s 7d per 
 capita, which is obviously unjustly and inequi- 
 tably in favour of Ireland (hear, hear). Then, if 
 I take the real payment of the Irish taxpayer and 
 compare it wfith the real payment of the tax- 
 payer of Great Britain, the present payment 
 per capita for Great Britain is £2 10s 
 
 lid ; for Ireland, £1 7s lOd — certainly 
 a much more considerable relation. Now, 
 I pass to the basis of the one-fourteenth or 
 the one-fifteenth. This is not formed upon the 
 total expenditure of the country, but upon what 
 we are about to reckon as 
 
 IMPERIAL EXPENDITURE. 
 
 The respective contributions to Imperial expendi- 
 ture, per capita, will be for Great Britain £1 10 
 lid, and for Ireland, 13s 5d- I don’t think that 
 that sounds an inequitable arrangement (hear, 
 hear). I wish to explain 
 EXACTLY WHAT ALTERATION I PROPOSE TO MAKE. 
 
 In the proposal now made Ireland will pay 13s 5d, 
 whereas if the present proportion were maintained 
 she would pay 16s lOd per capita , and I think 
 it will be admitted that that is a considerable 
 diminution in favour of Ireland (cheers). I have 
 ONE OTHER STRIKING PACT 
 to state in connection with Irish expenditure. 
 The house, I think, would like to know what 
 amount is going on at this moment of what I 
 might call waste of public money — (cheers) — 
 what I may even call demoralising waste (re- 
 newed cheering.) This expenditure I may say 
 has been demoralising in respect to both countries. 
 Sir, the civil charges per capita at the present 
 time in Great Britain amounts to 8s 2d ; whilst the 
 ■civil charges in Ireland amount to 16s 2d per 
 capita , and they have increased in the last 15 
 years 63 per cent ; and for my part my belief is 
 
 present administrative system be maintained 
 you must make up your mind to a never- 
 ending and never-to-be-limited augmentation. 
 The amount of the Irish contribution upon the 
 basis I have described would be as follows: — 
 .One -fifteenth of the annual net charge would be 
 £1,466,000, one-fifteenth of the army and navy 
 charge, after excluding what we may call war 
 debts, and also excluding the volunteers and 
 yeomen, would be £1,666,000, and the amount of 
 the civil charges which are properly considered 
 Imperial would entail upon Ireland £110,000, 
 or a total charge, properly Imperial, of 
 £3,242,000. I am now ready to present what I 
 may call 
 
 AN IRISH CROTCHET 
 
 (laughter), a debtor and creditor account of the 
 Irish Exchequer (hear, hear). The Customs 
 produced in Ireland the gross sum of 
 £1,088,000; the Excise, a gross sum of 
 £4,300,000; Stamps, £600,000; Income Tax and 
 non tax, Bevenue including Post Office, 
 £1,020,000, and perhaps, sir, here I may mention 
 as an instance of the demoralising waste that now 
 attends Irish administration that it will perhaps \ 
 surprise the house to learn that wffiile now in 
 England and Scotland we levy from that post \ 
 office system and telegraphs a large surplus in- 1 
 come^in Ireland the post office and telegraphs / 
 eave'a surplus so small that it is not worth men- j 
 tioning (hear, hear, and murmurs). I call that ay 
 very demoralising way of spending money- It 
 shows that while there is not, I believe, a finer 
 department in the country than the 
 post office, yet that in one way or 
 another our method of administering busi- 
 ness by influences known to be English, not 
 Irish, leads to a vast want of unnecessary expen - 
 penditure (hear, hear). The total receipts of the 
 Irish exchequer are thus seen to be £8,350,000 
 Against that I have to place 
 
 AN IMPERIAL CONTRIBUTION 
 Which I may call permanent, because it will last 
 fora good number of years, of £3,242,000. I have 
 put down £1,000,000 for the Irish constabulary, 
 because that would be the first charge for the con- 
 stabulary, though I hope it may soon come under 
 a very effective reduction. I put down 
 £2,510,000 for the other civil charges of Ireland, 
 because there again I trust, I have not the 
 slightest doubt, that the charge would be 
 very effectively reduced by the Irish Le- 
 gislative Government. Finally, the collection 
 of the revenues is £834,000, making a total 
 thus far of a charge of £7,586,000. Then, 
 sir, we have thought it essential to include in any 
 arrangement, not only for our own salces, but for 
 the sake of Ireland also, payment on account of & 
 sinking fund which will be now available for 
 THE ENTIRE NATIONAL DEBT. 
 
 We have now got to leave a certain portion of 
 that debt to Ireland. We think it necessary to 
 maintain that sinking fund as necessary above all; 
 and now I say it in the hearing of the Irish mem* 
 hers in the interest of Ireland, because, like otliefr 
 countries, when she gets the management of her 
 own affairs — indeed I venture to prophecy she 
 will want money for more useful purposes, and 
 then she will begin to borrow (cheers and laughter). 
 Her position will remain higher or lower according 
 to the condition of her public credit. Her pul»li<£ 
 credit is not yet born (laughter), but infants in 
 the cradle may require a good deal of nursing, 
 but no nursing would be effective unless it is 
 made plain and palpable to the outside world 
 that she has made provisions for meeting her obli- 
 gation:; nrer--<'ut end to c e I will tl; ■ o 
 
15 
 
 put down J per cent for a sinking fund, which 
 would amount to £360, 00, which would make 
 the expenditure £7,946,000, against an in- 
 come of £8,350,000 leaving a surplus 
 
 amount remaining to the good of £404,000. 
 But I should state to the house that this is car- 
 ried out of the funds which the Chancellor of the 
 Exchequer pays for the discharge of our electoral 
 expenditure; but at the same time I have not the 
 smallest doubt that in a very limited number of 
 years that expenditure might entirely be extin- 
 guished. Sir, the house has heard me with an 
 astonishing patience (cheers), and labouring under 
 what I have had to say it must have 
 proved an intolerable infliction of what is 
 an interminable task (hear, hear). There is only 
 one subject more on which I feel it is necessary 
 that I should detain you for a few moments. It 
 is said in England and in Scotland, and in the 
 main it is truly said, we have been for many years 
 STRUGGLING TO TASS LAWS FOR IRELAND. 
 
 We have sacrificed time, neglected our business, 
 we have paid our money, and we have made it 
 our endeavour to govern Ireland with favour. 
 Well, that is quite true, in a sense, of the general 
 course of legislation since 1829 ; but it has not 
 always been true. I am bound to say that there 
 have been exceptions made. Many of the laws 
 have been passed under what I cannot describe 
 except under the influence of fear, and some 
 of them were passed in a spirit of grudging 
 jealousy. It will be remembered that after four 
 or five years’ labour the Parliament passed the 
 Municipal Corporation Acts ; but I cannot forget 
 that the great bulk of the Corporations in Ireland 
 were extinguished, while those of England were 
 reformed, and those of Scotland were restored to 
 their deserved municipal position. I will not 
 now, of course, go into the history of the Land 
 Question, but no man knows the history 
 of that question until he begins and comes 
 down to the present from the year of 
 THE DEVON COMMISSION, 
 
 perhaps the first effort after those made by Mr. 
 Sharman Crawford to deal with the land question, 
 and the appointment of that commission does the 
 highest honour to the memory of Sir Robert Peel, 
 and if the history of that commission is looked 
 up, one may examine the mode in which it was 
 frustrated by the domination and self interest of 
 the British Parliament, and from that first effort 
 it was not possible to deal with the 
 Irish land question until the year 1870 (hear, hear). 
 I take this opportunity of asserting that that class 
 of views was not always confined to Irish mem- 
 bers or to Liberals on this side of the house 
 THE Late MR NAPIER, 
 
 who became Lord Chancellor of Ireland, when he 
 sat for the academical constituency of Dublin, 
 developed very early, and with great earnestness 
 truly liberal views on the subject of 
 
 Irish land, and made generous efforts 
 
 in that behalf, which generous efforts 
 
 were abortive, as were several others. Still I 
 could not for the moment deny the good inten- 
 tion — I do not think that Irish members would 
 deny the good intention of the united Parliament 
 on a variety of great and conspicuous and even 
 historical occasions — to pass good laws; but, sir, 
 may I say that in order to work out the purposes 
 of Government there is something more in this 
 world occasionally required than even 
 THE PASSING OF GOOD LAWS. 
 
 It is sometimes requisite that not only good laws 
 should be passed but also that they should be 
 passed by the proper persons. The passing of 
 
 should be good but that they should proceed from 
 a congenial and native source, and that besides 
 having those laws they should be their own laws 
 (cheers). It might have been doubted in former 
 times whether this development could be estab- 
 lished. If doubts could then be entertained they 
 cannot now be entertained. The principle that I 
 am laying down I am not laying down for Ireland 
 exceptionally, it is the very principle upon which 
 within my recollection we have not only altered 
 but revolutionised our method of governing the 
 Colonies (cheers). I had the honour of holding 
 office in the Colonial Department, perhaps I ought 
 to be ashamed to confess it, 
 
 FIFTY-ONE YEARS AGO. 
 
 At that time the Colonies were governed from 
 Downing street. It is true some of them had 
 legislative assemblies, and what was the l’esult ? 
 We were always in conflict with them, for we 
 were always fed with information by what is 
 termed the British party in the Colony (Par- 
 nellite cheers). The state of things in which 
 we lived was that a clique of gentlemen consti- 
 tuted the British Party and the non-British 
 Party, or, as it was sometimes called, the disloyal 
 Party (Parnellite cheers), was composed of the 
 enormous majority of the population of the 
 colony (hear, hear); and so we had continual 
 shock, continual debate, continual conflict; but 
 that, sir, has been changed. England tried to 
 pass good laws for her colonies at that period ; but 
 the colonies said, “We do not want your good 
 laws — we want our own” (Parnellite cheers). We 
 admit the reasonableness of the principle. It 
 has now come home to us across the sea, and we 
 have to consider whether it is applicable to the 
 case of Ireland. Do not let us- disguise from our- 
 selves we stand face to face with what is termed 
 Irish Nationality; and this 
 
 IRISH NATIONALITY 
 
 rests itself in a demand for local auto- 
 nomy or Self-Government, general and 
 pretty complete Self-Government in Ireland, but 
 not on Imperial affairs. Is this, sir, an evil in 
 itself ? Is it a thing which we ought to view with 
 horror or apprehension 1 Is it a thing we ought 
 to reject, or accept only with a wry face, or wait 
 until some painful or sad necessity is incumbent 
 upon us.like the necessity of 1780, or like the neces- 
 sity of 1793 ? Sir, I hold that it is not a thing of 
 that kind. There is a saying of Mr. Grattan, who 
 was, indeed, a very fervid rhetorician; he was an 
 orator, but, more than that, he was a statesman 
 (Parnellite cheers) — some of his aphorisms 
 
 are, in my opinion, weighty, and even 
 profound, and I commend them to careful 
 reflection. One of these sayings of Mr. Grattan 
 when he was deprecating the surrender of the 
 Irish Parliament, not pleading for the severance 
 of his country, which he detested, is embodied in 
 a few words — “ The Channel forbids union, that 
 is the union contemplated by Mr. Pitt, but 
 THE OCEAN FORBIDS SEPARATION” 
 
 (hear, hear). Is that Channel nothing ? Do what 
 you will with your steamers and your telegraphs, 
 can you make the Channel to cease to exist or to 
 be as if it did not exist ? These sixty miles may 
 appear but little, but I ask you what are the 
 twenty miles between England and France ? 
 What vital influences has the existence of those 
 few miles of water had on - the whole history, the 
 whole development of the national character ? 
 These, sir, are great facts. I would even 
 
 appeal to your jealousy in respect to 
 
 such matters as the Thames tunnel. 
 You were afraid that identification (cries of 
 
16 
 
 pardon. Sir, I hold that there is such a thing as 
 LOCAL PATRIOTISM, 
 
 which in itself is not bad but good (cheers). The 
 "Welshman is full of local patriotism. The Scotch- 
 man is full of local patriotism. The Scotch 
 nationality is as strong as ever it was, and if the 
 need were to arise I believe it would be as ready 
 to assert itself as it was in the days of Bannock- 
 burn (hear, and cheers). I do not believe 
 that that local patriotism is an evil, 
 and I believe it is stronger in Ireland 
 even than elsewhere. England is wonderfully 
 English ; the Scotchman is profoundly Scotch; 
 and, if I read Irish history aright, misfortune and 
 calamity have wedded her sons to their soil with 
 an embrace yet closer than is known elsewhere, 
 and the Irishman is 
 
 STILL MORE PROFOUNDLY IRISH. 
 
 But, sir, it does not follow that because his local 
 patriotism is strong that he should be incapable 
 of an Imperial patriotism. There are two modes 
 of presenting the subject which I have argued. 
 One of them is to present what we now recom- 
 mend as good, and the other is to present it as 
 A CHOICE OF EVILS, 
 
 and as the lesser among the varied evils with which 
 as possibilities we are confronted. Well, sir, I have 
 argued the matter as if it had been a choice of 
 evils; I have recognised as facts, and as entitled 
 to attention, jealousies which I myself do not 
 share or feel (hear, hear). I have argued 
 it on that ground as the only ground 
 on which it can be recommended, not 
 only to a mixed auditory, but to the public 
 mind of the country that cannot give minute 
 investigations to all portions of this complicated 
 question. But, sir, I do not know whether it may 
 appear too bold ; but in my own heart I cherish 
 the hope that this is not merely the choice of the 
 lesser evil, but that it may be, and that it may be 
 Droved to be ere long, a good in itself (loud cheers). 
 There is, I know, an answer to this, and 
 what is the answer ? The answer, sir, is 
 ■only found in the view which rests upon the basis 
 ©f despair, of absolute condemnation of Ireland 
 and Irishmen as exceptions to the beneficial pro- 
 visions which have made in general Europeans in 
 particular and Americans capable of self-govern- 
 ment, that an Irishman is a lusus natures, that 
 justice, common sense, moderation, natural pros- 
 perity have no meaning for him, and that all that 
 he can understand and all that he can appreciate 
 is strife and prepetual dissension. Now, sir, I 
 am not going to argue in this house whether this 
 view, this monstrous view (Irish cheers), is a cor- 
 rect one. I say that an Irishman is as capable of 
 loyalty as any other man (renewed Irish cheers). 
 But if his loyalty has been checked, why is it ? 
 Because the laws by which he is governed do not 
 presentthemselves to him as theydotousin England 
 or Scotland, with a native and congenial element. 
 Now, I think I can refer to more than one illus- 
 tration in support of this doctrine — I can advance 
 two instances, Viz — 
 
 THE IRISH SOLDIERS AND THE IRISH CONSTABULARY. 
 It is impossible to find any more loyal men in the 
 army than Irishmen. They share their dangers 
 with the Scotch and the English, and they have 
 done all they could to preserve the safety 
 and honour of the Empire (cheers). 
 But compare his case with the ordinary Irishman 
 in Ireland — he is to all intents and purposes a 
 volunteer who has placed himself under military 
 law. But the same thing does not apply to 
 the men who are there engaged in agriculture, 
 and who believe they are being governed by a law 
 
 which does not spring from the soil. 
 The Constabulary are, I believe, more 
 
 than loyal (cheers). It has been said, 
 and very commonly said, that the Irish Constabu- 
 lary are as a rule drawn from the Roman Catholic 
 population, amongst whom the greatest disaffec- 
 tion, it is stated, exists; and yet I can point to the 
 constabulary as a splendid body of men, ani- 
 mated with the spirit of obedience, discipline, 
 and devotion to the work they have 
 
 to discharge — a spirit and a devotion 
 which can scarcely be matched in any 
 other country in the world (cheers). The con- 
 stabulary are placed under proper authority, and 
 I thoroughly believe are just as loyal as any 
 Englishman or Scotchman born upon this side of 
 the Channel (hear, hear). We are sensible of all 
 this- We had a choice to make, and that choice 
 wars made, not, I assure the house, without a 
 great deal of thought and a great deal of 
 care (cheers). It has been made with the true 
 knowledge that we should meet with trials and 
 difficulties, and that we should be confronted with 
 many objections in the path we have taken (hear, 
 hear). I have no right to say that Ireland through 
 her constitutionally-elected members will ac- 
 cept the measure I propose — I hope they 
 will — but I have no right to assume it, 
 nor have I any power to enforce it upon the 
 people of England and Scotland (hear, hear). 
 There are difficulties, but I rely on the patriotism 
 and the sagacity of this house- I rely on the 
 effects of free and full discussion. I rely, more 
 than all, upon the just and generous sentiments 
 of the two British nations; and looking forward I 
 ask the house, believing that 
 
 NO TRIVIAL MOTIVE 
 
 could have driven us on to assist us in the work 
 we have undertaken, a work which we believe will 
 restore Parliament to its dignity and legislation to 
 its free and unimpeded course. I ask them to 
 stay that waste of the treasure under the present 
 system oi government and administration in Ire- 
 land which is not a waste only, but a waste which 
 demoralises while it exhausts, I ask them to 
 show to Europe and to America that we, too, can 
 face the political pi’oblems which America had to 
 face 20 years ago ; which many countries in Europe 
 have been called on to face, and have not feared 
 to deal with; that we should practise as we have 
 very often preached, and that in our own case we 
 should be firm and fearless in applying the over- 
 tures we have often inculcated on others that the 
 concession of local self-government is not the way 
 to sap or impair, but to strengthen and consoli- 
 date, unity. I ask that we should learn to rely 
 less on mere written stipulations and more on 
 those better stipulations written on 
 
 THE HEART AND THE MIND OF MEN. 
 
 I ask that we should apply to Ireland the happy 
 experience we have gained in England and in 
 Scotland where a course of generations has now 
 taught us not as a dream or a theory, but as a 
 matter of practice and of life, that the best and 
 surest foundation we can find to build on is the 
 foundation afforded by the affections and the con- 
 victions and the will of man, and that it is thus, 
 by THE DECREE OF THE ALMIGHTY, 
 
 that far more than by any other method we may 
 be enabled to secure at once the social happiness, 
 the power, and the permanence of the empire. 
 
 The right hon gentleman then resumed his seat, 
 after speaking three hours and twenty-five 
 minutes, amidst a burst of enthusiastic and sus- 
 tained cheering, which was maintained for some 
 minutes. 
 
9 
 
 THE HOME RULE BILL 
 
 WITH WHICH IS PUBLISHED 
 
 MR. GLADSTONE'S SECOND SPEECH, 
 
 DELIVERED 
 
 On TUESDAY , 13th APRIL , 18S6. 
 
 In the House of Commons, on Tuesday, April 
 13 . 1886 , 
 
 Mr GLADSTONE, who was received with loud 
 and prolonged cheering, said — I will make at the 
 outset one or two very brief remarks upon the 
 speech of the right hon gentleman. He has 
 quoted words from me with an extension given to 
 them which was not contained or conveyed in the 
 original. The argument I made upon the pro- 
 posal of 1871 was that no case had at that time 
 been shown tp justify the breaking up, not of the 
 institutions of the country- generally, but of the 
 Imperial Parliament (hear, hear). At that time, 
 after the Church Act of 1869 and after the Land 
 Act of 1870, I did cherish the hope that we might 
 be able by legislation in this house to meet the 
 wants and wishes of Ireland, but my speech on 
 that occasion contained none of the apprehensions 
 with which the minds ©f gentlemen on the benches 
 opposite are full. On the contrary, I then stated 
 in the most explicit manner that I heard with joy 
 and accepted with the utmost satisfaction the as- 
 surance that the demand which was beginning to 
 fee made by Mr. Butt for Home Rule did not in- 
 volve in any way the disintegration ©f the empire 
 (cheers). I certainly will not enter into any dis- 
 cussion on theTransvaal Convention, as I donot con- 
 ceive that any vindication from me is wanting of ail 
 act which I believe has been recognised by this 
 country as a great act of justice (hear, hear, and 
 cheers), or perhaps a more accurate description 
 of it would be the undoing of a great act of in- 
 justice (no, no, and cheers). The right hon gen- 
 tleman says I have shown mistrust of the Irish 
 Legislature by providing safeguards for minori- 
 ties, but I have already stated in the most dis- 
 tinct terms that they are provided, not in conse- 
 quence of mistrust entertained by me, but in 
 consequence of mistrust entertained by others 
 (hear, hear). The words “ foreign garb” were 
 used by me not with reference to the 
 beneficent acts done by this Parliament to meet 
 the wants of Ireland, but to the ordinary opera- 
 tions of the criminal law, and especially in asso- 
 ciation with the provisions of special repressive or 
 coercive measures (cheers). The right hon gen- 
 tleman speaks of the disappearance of the Roman 
 Catholic Association from the scene as a triumph 
 gained by the vigour and firmness of Parliament; 
 but it was due, on the contrary, to the introduc- 
 tion of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, as unhap- 
 pily the introduction ©f that bill was due, as the 
 Duke of Wellington himself declared, to appre- 
 hension of civil war (cheers). It lias been said 
 that w« had not a formulated demand from Ire- 
 land for the measure, but we know in substance 
 the wish of Ireland on the subject from her con- 
 atitutionally chosen representatives (oh, oh, and 
 Home Rule cheers). And if the demand be a just 
 and reasonable one, you cannot hasten too much to 
 meet it, instead of waiting till the day of disaster, 
 
 and difficulty, and dishonour (cheers). There is one 
 matter of detail which I must notice, because it 
 has been touched upon so largely in this debate. 
 
 I mean the question of the cessation of tlie pre- 
 sence of the Irish members in this house. When 
 I spoke on Thursday I laid down five essential 
 conditions, from which it appeared to me we 
 could under no circumstances depart, and they 
 s were — That the grant of a domestic legislature to 
 Ireland must be consistent with Imperial unity, 
 must be founded upon the political equality of 
 the three nations; that there was to be an 
 equitable distribution of Impei ial burdens; that 
 there should be safeguards for the minority ; and 
 that the measure should be in the nature of a 
 settlement, and not a mere provocation to the re- 
 vival of fresh demands. I have been reported as 
 having stated that the assumption of the customs 
 and excise by this country and the absence of 
 the Irish members from this house were also vital 
 and essential to the conditions of the bill. What 
 I believe I stated was that the hundred and three 
 Irish members could not come here and vote upon 
 all matters, English, Scotch, Irish, and Imperial 
 alike — that I conceived it to be wholly inadmis- 
 sible. I also said that in ray opinion it was im- 
 possible for England to force upon Ireland 
 taxation without representation, and that 
 
 if the Irish members were to dis- 
 
 appear, either permanently or for a time, 
 from this house, it might be by the consent 
 of Ireland herself. It has been suggested that 
 the Irish members might come with limited 
 powers, and that I had failed to discover the 
 means of drawing the lines; and that they might 
 come in limited numbers, as suggested in the 
 weighty speech of my hon friend the member for 
 Bedford. Well, viewing the importance of the 
 subject, and the immeasurable importance of the 
 objects we have in view, I do not think it would 
 be politic, it would even be presumptuous, were 
 we to take upon ourselves to place before the- 
 house at this early stage such details or to close 
 the door against the consideration of this par- 
 ticular subject (cheers). My right hon friend 
 the member for East Edinburgh is terribly 
 alarmed at the arguments drawn from the 
 eighty-six Nationalist members in the house. 
 What I venture to say is this— rthat the deliberate 
 constitutional expression of the wishes ©i Ireland 
 through a vast majority of her members entails 
 upon this house the duty and obligation of a re- 
 spectful and favourable consideration of every 
 wish that Ireland may entertain consistently with 
 the interests and the integrity of the Empire 
 (Home Rule and Ministerial cheers). My right 
 hon friend said there was no difference in prin- 
 ciple between Ireland and Scotland. Well, his 
 experience as a Scotch member is short (laughj 
 ter). But I would venture to say that if the ma- 
 jority of Scotch members demand something on 
 
 B 
 
18 
 
 the ground of Scotch freedom and opinion as 
 essentially required in order to satisfy the just 
 wishes of Scotland, I would not advise my right 
 lion friend, if those wishes be consistent with the 
 integrity of the Empire, to put himself in conflict 
 with such expressions of opinion (laughter and 
 cheers). My right hon friend the member for 
 Rossendale complained that there was no analogy 
 to be drawn from the proceedings in the Protest- 
 ant Parliament of Grattan. What was the mean- 
 ing of this ? I have argued that Grattan’s Parlia- 
 ment showed no tendency oi disposition towards 
 separation, and that he looked upon the separa- 
 tion of the Parliaments as the means of uniting 
 the hearts c>f the Irish people to this country 
 (Home Rule cheers). It has been greatly owing 
 to the concentration of power in the hands of the 
 few — and I may go further and say, what grosser 
 and more woeful state of affairs can we refer to? — 
 and are we to be told this when for fifty years we 
 have been engaged in breaking down exclusive 
 power in this country, and writing out of the sta- 
 tute book every religious disability, as we propose 
 by the measure we are about to bring before this 
 house? (Loud cheers-) There seems to be no faith 
 entertained in the people by those who make those 
 demonstrations against us — they shut out the 
 people, they think, because they consider their 
 influences all lead in the direction of dangers 
 (hear, hear, and oh). In this country we have 
 found the trusting of the people the source of 
 strength and independence, and we expect to 
 find the same result in Ireland under similar 
 circumstances (hear, hear). My right hon friend 
 (Mi*. Goschen) seems desirous to sum up the mis- 
 deeds of the Irish people when lie says that in 
 no country but Ireland would a no rent manifesto 
 be prepared. That is the serious inquiry that 
 he puts. My first observation, is what country 
 has so lamentable, so deplorable, a history — a his- 
 tory as disgraceful to those who had a hand in 
 bringing it about as it is to those who main- 
 tained the relations between those who own the 
 land and those who occupy it? The speech of 
 my riofit hon friend appeared to proceed upon 
 the assumption that there is something 
 ineradicable and incurable at the present moment 
 in Irishmen — that they had received a double 
 dose of original sin (loud laughter). Is 
 it to he wondered at that the notions of Iris men 
 have been peculiar on the subject of the land 
 when you bear in mind that the Devon Commis- 
 sion, appointed under a Tory Government, re- 
 ported that the agricultural people of Ireland 
 bear, and did bear, with admirable and exemplary 
 patience sufferings greater than those that ever 
 fell to any people in Europe ? (Irish cheers.) 
 Are we so ignorant as to suppose that those 
 sufferings borne for generations — I may say for 
 centurii s — and disclosed to the world on the 
 highest authority, were removed when an attempt 
 to do something failed through the narrow jealousy 
 and selfishness of class? (Renewed Irish cheers.) 
 Does my right hon friend not see how this must 
 have left its mark in history, and in the nature, 
 disposition, and habits of men who have been 
 suffering under such abominations? (Cheers.) My 
 right hon friend further says that my analogies 
 from foreign countries are bad — that the analogy 
 of Austria and Hungary and the analogy of 
 Norway anti Sweden have nothing to do 
 with the question of Ireland. My state- 
 ment has been entirely misinterpreted (laughter 
 from the Opposition). I never said that tho 
 analogy was exact, but that the circumstances 
 
 were exactly parallel, but what I say is this, • 
 that if called upon to do what has been done 
 in those countries, we can do with infinitely 
 greater advantages all that they have done with 
 infinite difficulties (hear, hear). That is what I 
 said, and I say now that it is quite true. There 
 was not a supreme Parliament in Sweden which 
 could deal with the case of Norway, nor has 
 Austria been able to deal with Hungary with any 
 oi that supremacy of a Parliament, with its poli- 
 tical right and the enormous power of that politi- 
 cal right behind it ; yet the problem has been 
 solved in the case of Sweden and Norway by the 
 granting, of separate domestic legislatures and 
 local political independence, with the result of 
 union between the two peoples; and that union 
 has become close, is growing closer day by day 
 (loud cheers); and I venture to think that this is a 
 case which illustrates and has a bearing on the 
 great argument before us (hear). The right hon 
 gentleman (Mr. Goschen) says that the interests 
 of this country are interlaced with the interests of 
 Ireland. I am astonished to hear this put|forth 
 to pass muster for an argument. It is true, 
 and I thank God that it is true, that the 
 interests of both countries are interlaced so 
 far as it enables us to deal with this ques- 
 tion, for I do not think that the most extreme 
 person will overlook this interlacing of interests ; 
 for, if we have benefits to obtain from each other, 
 and that Ireland cannot do injury to England 
 without suffering herself, that knowledge will as- 
 sist rather to help us on. Sir, the basis of the 
 right hon gentleman’s argument is that the 
 Irishman will do wrong, that there is 
 no way of making him listen to the dic- 
 tates of prudence, kindness, or justice (laughter). 
 The right hon gentleman went on to describe the 
 frightful change everything has to undergo — 
 legislation was to be changed, aclministratiou was 
 to be changed, the Civil Service was to be 
 changed, the face of nature was to be changed 
 (laughter), so terrible was to be this revolution. 
 
 Is there no common sense amongst that portion 
 of our fcLlow-countrymen? When I listened to 
 the speech of my right hon friend it recalled to 
 my memory a striking sentence spoken by Lord 
 Russell fifty years ago, which was implanted 
 deenly on my memory at the time, and which I 
 never have forgotten, and never, I hope, will for- 
 get. It was at that period when, under the ad- 
 ministration of the Melbourne Government, 
 Thomas Drummond was Secretary for Iceland, 
 who endeavoured so far as lie could to carry on 
 the Irish administration in sympathy with the 
 feelings of the people (Home Rule cheers). His 
 misdeeds, for so I must call them, found their 
 climax in his utterance of the portentous doctrine 
 which shook Conservatism from Land’s End to 
 John o’Groat’s house — that property had its duties 
 as well as its rights. The expression of that doc- 
 trine and Hie corresponding misdeeds of the Go- 
 vernment caused many debates in this house. 
 Lord Russell, in his quiet way, rising to take part 
 in the debate, said — 
 
 It appears to me, all the>e objections, all these diffi- 
 culties. and all these accusations— (if I am not quoting 
 the words accurately I am very near the mark) — may 
 he summed up in one single sentence. It comes 
 to this— that as England is inhabited by Englishmen, 
 and Scotland by Scotchmen, so Ireland is inhabited by 
 Irishmen. 
 
 A sentence in which I believe there was the seed 
 of great wisdom. Lord Russoll knew very well 
 that Ireland did not come here to conquer Eng- 
 land seven hundred years ago, hut tlutt wo went 
 
to conquer Ireland. We favoured them with our 
 company (laughter). We have been all along the 
 stronger party of the two, and it is one of the 
 uniform and unfailing rules that guide human 
 judgment, that when there has been a long rela- 
 tionship between superior strength and inferior 
 strength, and when that relation has gone wrong, 
 the responsibility, aye, and the guilt, comes in the 
 main upon the strong and not upon the weak. I 
 must say the question to which I am about to 
 refer is an astonishing question — a question very 
 proper to be asked upon a second reading of a bill, 
 but such as I have never heard even a novice in 
 this house ask on the introduction of a bill. Sir, 
 if such questions are proper to be asked, this 
 house ought to alter its rules, and give the in- 
 troducer of a bill the power to have it printed 
 and to lay it on the table on the first reading. 
 The right hon gentleman asks me about the veto 
 (Opposition cheers). My opinion is that the 
 principle upon which the veto is now worked in 
 our principal dependencies, though I have no 
 desire to reduce Ireland to the position of a 
 colony, will be practicable also in respect to Ire- 
 and (cheers). With regard to the levying of the 
 Income tax, the right hon gentleman seems to 
 have a very elementary idea of what the Irish 
 income tax is to be. No such question as the pay- 
 ments of dividends in this country can arise, for the 
 Irish income tax will be just as distinct from the 
 Income tax of England and Scotland as if it were 
 a French income tax (Opposition cheers) or an 
 Indian income tax (Ministerial cheers). They 
 certainly have the blessing of an income tax in 
 India, but its incidence and the liability to pay 
 It are totally distinct from the same things in 
 this country. My right hon friend finally says 
 that he was much struck with the case of the 
 United States. Yes, the Northern States insisted 
 upon the maintenance of the Union, and they 
 carried their point; but having carried their point 
 what did they do ? (Ministerial cheers). Why, 
 having the Southern States at their feet, and 
 being in the position of a conqueror, and entitled 
 to treat the Southern States as conquered States, 
 they immediately invested every one ef them 
 with autonomy (loud Ministerial and Irish 
 cheers), a measure of justice and wisdon which 
 we are now making for Ireland (Opposition laugh- 
 ter and loud and continued Ministerial cheers). 
 
 I say a measure of autonomy for Ireland (Irish 
 cheers). Well, sir, I may say a few words more. 
 My right hon friend the noble lord the member 
 for Rossendale stated that the enactment we are 
 now asked to pass will create further demands 
 (hear, hear). Now, the right hon gentleman who 
 lias just sat down has been exceedingly courteous 
 in this matter, and he has promised Ireland — I 
 hope I am not misrepresenting him — nothing but 
 a Reasonable allowance of repressive criminal legis- 
 lation (ironical cheers from the Home Rulers). 
 He has not offered her even the phantom of local 
 self-government, He has said nothing about edu- 
 cation and public works. These things find no 
 place in the speech of the right hon gentleman, 
 but they find a place in the speech of my noble 
 friend the member for Rossendale. Well, sir, 
 we are going to give the Irish people, if we are 
 permitted, that which we believe to be in sub- 
 stantial accordance with their full possible and 
 reasonable demands (Home Rule cheers). In our 
 opinion that is the way to stop further demands 
 (renewed cheers). I will quote the authority of 
 Mr. Burke, and I hope we shall hear much of Mr. 
 Burke in the course of these discussions, for the 
 
 19 
 
 writings of Mr. Burke on Ireland, and still 
 more if possible on America, are a mine of gold, 
 and the civil wisdom with which they are charged 
 is applicable to the circumstances, and they are 
 the deepest and most valuable lessons to guide 
 the policy of the country. What says Mr. Burke 
 about large concessions ? He was speaking of 
 conciliation to America, and those to- whom he 
 was preaching met him with the idle observation '< 
 that his conciliation would lead to further de- 
 mands. Mr. Burke says — 
 
 Concessions were granted when blood had been shed, 
 when hundreds of millions had been added to the 
 national debt. They were granted when the sacrifices 
 of England werfe felt throughout the length and breadth, 
 of the kind, while they left behind them in America an 
 inheritance not of good feeling such as now prevails, hut 
 rancour and resentments which it took generations to 
 efface (hear, hear). It is no question of concession in 
 my opinion, but it is a question I care more for than 
 anything else, that of the character; honour, and fair 
 fame of my country (loud and prolonged cheers). For 
 humanity, for justice, for the desire to make atonement 
 if we can for a long— too long— series of former and not 
 wholly forgottfen wrongs. 
 
 It was in this spirit that Mr Burke counselled a 
 policy of conciliation with America (hear, hear). 
 What are the proposals of my right hon friend? 
 First, a little dose of coercion in some shape or 
 other, and next a grudging gift to Ireland of such 
 self-government as England and Scotland may be 
 pleased to ask for themselves. Niw, I deny the 
 justice of the principle that self /government in 
 Ireland is necessarily to be limited by the wishes 
 of England and Scotland.You must show that what 
 Ireland wants is mischievous; and unless you 
 show that you have no right, in justice, to propose 
 such a limitation (loud Home Rule cheers). I am 
 not speaking of justice, but the favourite tepic of 
 further demands. Was there ever a device more 
 certain to prolong all the troubles of Parliament? 
 Was there ever a system of policy less hopeful of 
 attaining to any strong or permanent standing 
 ground than this proposal to dole out to Ireland 
 from year to year with grudging and misgiving, 
 and with the frank statement- which is a very 
 dangerousbusiness.that what she does not ask,if she 
 accepts it, she will accept only for the purpose of 
 making further demands ? The Irish members 
 have expressly declared that they do not seek to 
 press forward from this measure to some other. 
 Does the noble lord net think that every gift he 
 proposes to dole out in the shape of some muni- 
 cipal corporation or county board would be 
 used for the purpose of making further claims ? 
 
 I admire the consistency and caution of the leader 
 of the Opposition, because he told us at the be- 
 ginning of the session when he was asked what 
 boons he would give to Ireland in the way of 
 local government — he said no enlargement of the 
 powers of local government in Ireland should be 
 given which could be used as a lever to weaken 
 and destroy that legislative union which would 
 enable the majority, or the social majority, to 
 tyrannise over the minority (Opposition cheers). 
 Does he not see that the granting of a small modi- 
 cum of local government to Ireland is simply a 
 device for perpetual disturbance by strengthen- 
 ing the leverage by which these demands would 
 be urged until they reached their natural con- 
 summation ? My noble friend said this was a 
 question which had not been referred to the 
 people or on which the people had not been ade- 
 quately informed. If you do not want a mandate 
 for measures of force and repression, much less 
 do you want a mandate for measures to strengthen 
 the law (cheers). My noble friend drew 
 
20 
 
 attention to the case of tlie first Reform Act. But 
 the elections of 1830 were conducted almost 
 entirely without reference to reform. It was only 
 towards the end of the elections that, events, in 
 Park having produced a sympathetic effect in this 
 country, an initial cry was raised in a few elections 
 for reform in this country; yet when that Parlia- 
 ment met and it was found that the wants of the 
 country demanded reform, though that reform was 
 denounced as revolution (hear, hear), the Govern- 
 ment of the day entertained the project. It would 
 Be a very difficult thing indeed if my colleagues 
 who hfcve spoken in the debate or I myself had 
 ignored the people in regard to this matter. I 
 never uttered an opinion, nor shall ever utter an 
 opinion, that this is a question unfit to come 
 before the people. ISfo man gives pledges, no man 
 .holds Out expectations, upon a subject of this 
 Jkiud; but I think we who propose this bill should 
 be the very last persons who should be 
 • -jealous of a reference to the people (cheers). 
 r " : \Vith regard to my right hon friend the member 
 ’jfor Birmingham, I at once accord to him what, in 
 Sfcruth, he does not want from me, a perfect and 
 . entire good faith in the attempt at explanation 
 a e ’to the form of some misunderstanding which 
 ai wse between us. If anything further is required 
 on that point it certainly will keep until Friday. 
 ]Vly ' right hon friend stated four grounds, on one 
 or other of which he found ample justifi- 
 cati. w for the step he felt it his duty 
 to t I will do him the justice to say he 
 
 at ai '3 T ra t e had no confidence in coercive 
 le o' ish dion. He knows how little courage there is 
 inapp. %ali«g to Parliament on this account; but he 
 declare & his opinion that we ought to have a mea- 
 sure pr< 'deeding from an inquiry by a commission 
 of all p; ’•fties. I will not criticise that beyond 
 saying tl no solution for the difficulties in Ire- 
 land will «ver eome from that source, nor can 
 
 there be a federation unless there be somebody 
 to federal e — there can be no federation ex- 
 cept you i aave a legislative body entitled to 
 act for the People (hear, hear). But going 
 back to n right hon friend the member 
 for Ed in bur; h, and the mutual relations of 
 harmony and ( wnoord between the plans of those 
 who are to sinl ’ minor differences and unite toge- 
 ther for the be. ^ ev solution 0 f the Irish difficulty 
 
 (laughter), the Chancellor of the Exchequer 
 showed in his masterly statement the total 
 want ‘of a common feature among the plans of 
 those whose common basis of unity is hostility to 
 this bill (hear, hear). When I speak of this plan I 
 speak of it as a plan in its essence and not in its 
 detail. It may derive much advantage from the 
 wisdom of Parliament, but speaking of it as a plan 
 I say that it holds the field (cheers) against 
 any enemies. It has a single moral — no one lias 
 been bold enough to propose an intelligible 
 system of what I call effectual coercion — the only 
 coercion which could be adequate to the end you 
 have in view. And as the plan holds the field so 
 the subject holds the field. Never have I wit- 
 nessed such signs of public absoprtion in this 
 house and out of this house with respect to any 
 other subject. It is safe to prophesy that this 
 subject will continue to hold the field. Many mem- 
 bers who desire important reforms think, and I am 
 one of them, that legislatian is in arrear. But you 
 may dismiss all other subjects until this matter is 
 disposed of. I am not speaking of what gentle- 
 men opposite may threaten or say — I am looking 
 at the nature of things and at the interests of 
 Ireland and of Scotland. Until this problem is 
 solved it is idle to think of making real progress 
 in this country with regard to great subjects of 
 legislation which are ripe for the handling 
 of Parliament. W e have come to the time lor 
 decisive action, and for throwing aside not only 
 private interests and private affections, but 
 private devices, for, looking at the subject as a 
 whole, and asking ourselves the question whether 
 we will make one bold attempt to free Parlia- 
 ment from its great and necessary work to estab- 
 lish harmony by Irish laws for Ireland, or whether 
 we will continue to struggle on as we have done 
 before, living from hand to mouth, leaving Eng- 
 land and Scotland to a famine of needful and 
 useful legislation, and Ireland tc a continuance of 
 social disorder, the depth of which we have never 
 understood, which you do not know how to deal 
 with, and angry discord which you make no at- 
 tempt to cure. 
 
 The right hon gentleman resumed his seat 
 amidst loud cheers from the Irish mem- 
 bers and from the Ministerialists, after having- 
 spoken exactly an hour. 
 
 I 
 
THE HOME RULE BILL 
 
 TEXT OF THE MEASURE. 
 
 A BILL TO AMEND THE PROVISION FOR TIIE FUTURE GOVERNMENT 
 
 OF IRELAND. 
 
 Be it enacted by the Queen’s Most Excellent 
 Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of 
 the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons 
 in this present Parliament assembled, and by the 
 authority of the same as follows : — 
 
 LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY. 
 
 I. On and after the appointed day there shall 
 be established in Ireland a Legislature, consisting 
 of her Majesty the Queen and an Irish Legislative 
 Body. 
 
 II. With the exceptions and subject to the re- 
 strictions in this act mentioned, it shall be lawful 
 for her Majesty the Queen, and with the advice of 
 the Irish Legislative Body, to make laws for the 
 peace, order, and good government of Ireland, 
 and by any such law to alter and repeal any law 
 in Ireland. 
 
 III. The Legislature of Ireland should not make 
 laws relating to the following matters, or any of 
 them : — 
 
 (1.) The status or dignity of the Crown, or the 
 succession to the Crown, or a Regency. 
 
 (2.) The making of peace or war. 
 
 .(3.) The army, navy, militia, volunteers, or 
 other military or naval forces, for the defence 
 ©f the realm. 
 
 (4.) Treaties and other relations with foreign 
 States or the relations between the various 
 parts of her Majesty’s dominions. 
 
 (5.) Dignities or titles of honour. 
 
 (6.) Prize or booty of war. 
 
 (7.) Offences against the law of nations, or 
 offences committed in violation of any treaty 
 made, or hereafter to be made, between her 
 Majesty and any foreign State; or offences 
 committed on the high seas. 
 
 (8.) Treason, alienage, or naturalisation. 
 
 (9.) Trade, navigation, or quarantine. 
 
 (10.) The Postal and Telegraph service, except 
 as hereafter in this act mentioned with re- 
 spect to the tiansmission of letters and tele- 
 grams in Ireland. 
 
 (11.) Beacons, light-houses, or sea marks. 
 
 (12 ) The coinage, the value of foreign money; 
 or legal tender, or weights and measures; or 
 
 (13.) Copyright, patent rights, or other exclu- 
 sive rights, to the use or profits of any works 
 or inventions. Any law made in contraven- 
 tion of this section shall be void. 
 
 IV. The Irish Legislature shall not make any 
 law — 
 
 (1.) Respecting the establishment or endow- 
 ment of religion, or prohibiting the free 
 exercise thereof ; or 
 
 (2.) Imposing any disability or conferring any 
 privilege on account of religious belief ; or 
 
 (3.) Abrogating or derogating from the right- 
 establish or maintain any place of denomma- 
 tionai education, or any denominational in- 
 stitution or charity, or 
 
 (4.) Prejudicially affecting the right of any 
 child to attend a school receiving public 
 money without attending the religious in- 
 struction at that school; or 
 
 (5.) Impairing without either the leave of her 
 Majesty in Council first obtained, on an ad- 
 dress presented by the Legislative Body of 
 Ireland, or the consent of the Corporation in- 
 terested, the rights, property, or privileges of 
 any existing Corporation incorporated by 
 Royal charter or local and general Act of 
 Parliament; or 
 
 (6.) Imposing or relating to duties of Customs 
 and duties of Excise as defined by this act, 
 or either of such duties, or affecting any act 
 relating to such duties or either of them; or 
 
 (7.) Affecting this act, except in so far as it is 
 declared to be alterable by the Irish Legisla- 
 ture. 
 
 V. Her Majesty the Queen shall have the same 
 prerogative with respect to summoning, prorogu- 
 ing, and dissolving the Irish Legislative Body as 
 her Majesty lias with respect to summoning, pro- 
 roguing, and dissolving the Imperial Parliament. 
 
 VI. The Irish Legislative Body, whenever sum- 
 moned. may have continuance for five years, and 
 no longer ; to be reckoned from the day on which, 
 any such Legislative Body is appointed to meet. 
 
 EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY. 
 
 VII. (1.) The Executive Government of Ireland 
 shall continue vested in her Majesty, and 
 shall be carried on by the Lord Lieutenant; 
 on behalf of her Majesty, with the aid of such 
 officers and such councils as to her Majesty 
 may from time to time seem fit. 
 
 (2.) Subject to any instructions which may 
 from time to time be given by her Majesty, 
 the Lord Lieutenant shall give or withhold 
 tlie assent of her Majesty to bills passed by 
 the Irish Legislative Body, and shall exercise 
 the prerogative of her Majesty in respect of 
 the summoning, proroguing, and dissolving of 
 the Irish Legislative Body, and any preroga- 
 tive the exercise of which may be delegated 
 to him by her Majesty. 
 
 VIII. Her Majesty may, by order in Council 
 from time to time place under the control of the 
 Irish Government, for the purposes of that Go- 
 vernment, any such lands and buildings in Ire- 
 land as may be vested in or held in trust for her 
 Majesty. 
 
90 
 
 CONSTITUTION OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY. 
 
 IX. (1.) The Irish Legislative Body shall con- 
 sist of a first and second order. 
 
 (2.) The two orders shall deliberate together, 
 and shall vote together, except that if any 
 question arises in relation to legislation, or to 
 the standing orders or rules of procedure, or 
 to any other matter in that behalf in this 
 act specified, and such question is to be de- 
 cided by vote, each order shall, if a majority 
 of the members present of either order de- 
 mand a separate vote, give their votes in like 
 manner as if they were separate Legislative 
 Bodies, and if the result of the voting of the 
 two orders does not agree the question shall 
 be resolved in the negative. 
 
 X. — The first order of the Irish Legislative 
 IBody shall consist of one hundred and three mem- 
 bers, of whom seventy-five shall be elective mem- 
 bers and twenty-eight peerage members. 
 
 (1.) Each elective member shall at the date of 
 his election, and during his period of mem- 
 bership, be bona fide possessed of property, 
 which (a) if real, or partly real and partly 
 personal, yields two hundred pounds a year 
 or upwards, free of all charges; or (b) if per- 
 sonal, yields the same income, or is of the 
 capital value of four thousand pounds or up- 
 wards, free of all charges. 
 
 (2.) For purpose of electing the elective mem- 
 bers of the first order of the Legislative Body, 
 Ireland shall be divided into the electoral 
 districts specified in the first schedule to this 
 act, and each such district shall return the 
 number of members in that behalf specified 
 in that schedule. 
 
 (3.) The elective members shall be elected by 
 the registered electors of each electoral dis- 
 trict, and for that purpose a register of elec- 
 tors shall be made annually. 
 
 (4.) An elector in each electoral district shall 
 be qualified as follows — That is to say, he 
 shall be of full age, and not subject to any 
 legal incapacity, and shall have been 
 during the twelve months next preceding 
 the 20th day of July in any year, the owner 
 or occupier of some land or tenement within 
 the district of a net annual value of £25 or 
 upwards. 
 
 (5.) The term of office of an elective member 
 shall be ten years. 
 
 (6.) In every fifth year 37 or 38 of the elective 
 members, as the case requires, shall retire 
 from office, and their places shall be filled by 
 election. The members to retire shall be 
 those who have been members for the longest 
 time without re-election. 
 
 (7.) The offices of the peerage members shall be 
 filled as follows, that is to say — 
 
 (a) Each of the Irish peers who on the appointed 
 day is one of the 28 Irish representative peers, 
 shall, on giving his written assent to the Lord 
 Lieutenant, become a peerage member of the 
 first order of the Irish Legislative Body; and, 
 if at any time within 30 years after the ap- 
 pointed day, any such peer vacates his office 
 by death or resignation, the vacancy shall be 
 filled by the election to that office by the Irish 
 
 J >eers of one of their number in the manner 
 leretofore in use respecting the election of 
 Jx&ch representative peers, subject to adapta- 
 tion, as provided by this act ; and if the va- 
 cancy ii,s not so filled within the proper time 
 it shall filled by the election of an elective 
 member/ {b) If any of the 28 peers afore- 
 
 said does not within one month after the 
 appointed day give such assent to be a peerage 
 member of the first order the vacancy so 
 created shall be filled up as if he had assented 
 and vacated his office by resignation. 
 
 (8.) A peerage member shall be entitled to 
 hold office during his life, or until the expira- 
 tion of thirty years from the appointed day, 
 whichever period is the shortest. At the ex- 
 piration of such thirty years the offices of all 
 the peerage members shall be vacated as if 
 they were dead, and their places shall be filled 
 by elective members, qualified and elected in 
 manner provided by this act with respect to 
 elective members of the first order, and such 
 elective members may be distributed by the 
 Irish Legislature among the electoral dis- 
 tricts, so. however, that care should be taken 
 to give additional members to the most popu- 
 lous places. 
 
 (9.) The offices of members of the first order 
 shall not be vacated by the dissolution of the 
 Legislative Body. 
 
 (10.) The provisions in the second schedule to 
 this act relating to members of the first order 
 of the Legislative Body shall be of the same 
 force as if they were enacted in the body of 
 this act. 
 
 XI. (1.) Subject, as in this section hereafter 
 mentioned, the second order of the Legisla- 
 tive Body shall consist of 204 members. 
 
 (2.) The members of the second order shall be 
 chosen by the existing constituencies of Ire- 
 land, two by each constituency, with the ex- 
 ception of the city of Cork, which shall be 
 divided into two divisions in maimer set forth 
 in the third schedule to tins act, and two 
 members shall be chosen by each of such di- 
 visions. 
 
 (3.) Any person who, on the appointed day, is a 
 member representing an existing Irish consti- 
 tuency in the House of Commons shall, on 
 giving his written assent to the Lord Lieute- 
 nant, become a member of the second order 
 of the Irish Legislative Body as if he had 
 been elected by the constituency which he 
 was representing in the House of Commons. 
 Each of the members of the city of Cork, on 
 the said day may elect for which of the divi- 
 sions of that pity he wishes to be deemed to 
 have been elected. 
 
 (4.) If any member does not give such written 
 assent within one month after the appointed 
 day his place shall be filled by election in the 
 same manner and at the same time as if he 
 had assented and vacated his office by death.. 
 
 (5.) If the same person is elected to both 
 orders he shall, within seven days after the 
 meeting of the Legislative Body, or if the 
 body is sitting at the time of the election, 
 within seven days after the election declare in 
 which order he will serve, and his member- 
 ship of the other order shall be void, and be 
 filled by a fresh election. 
 
 (6.) Notwithstanding anything in this act, it 
 shall be lawful for the Legislature of Ireland 
 at any time to pass an act enabling the Royal 
 University of Ireland to return not more than 
 two members to the second order of the Iris 
 Legislative Body, in addition to the number 
 of members above mentioned. 
 
 Notwithstanding anything in this act, it shall 
 be lawful for the Irish Legislature, after the 
 first dissolution of the Legislative Body which 
 occurs to alter the constitution or election, of the 
 
23 
 
 second order of that body, due regard being had 
 in the distribution of members to the population 
 of the constituencies, provided that no alteration 
 shall be made in tho number of such order. 
 
 FINANCE. 
 
 XII. (1.) For the purpose of providing for the 
 public service of Ireland, the Irish Legislature 
 may impose taxes other than duties of 
 Customs or Excise, as defined by this act, 
 which duties shall continue to be imposed 
 and levied, and under the direction of the 
 Imperial Parliament only. 
 
 (2.) On and after the appointed day there shall 
 be an Irish Consolidated Fund separate from 
 the Consolidated Fund of the United 
 Kingdom. 
 
 (3.) All taxes imposed by the Legislature of 
 Ireland and all other public revenues under 
 the control of the Government of Ireland 
 shall, subject to any provisions touching the 
 disposal thereof contained in any act passed 
 in the present session respecting the sale and 
 purchase of land in Ireland, be paid into the 
 Irish Consolidated Fund, and be appro- 
 priated to the public service of Ireland accord- 
 ing to law. 
 
 XIII. (1.) Subject to the provisions for the 
 
 reduction or cessor thereof in this section 
 mentioned, there shall be made on the part 
 ©f Ireland to the Consolidated Fund of the 
 United Kingdom the following annual con- 
 tributions in every financial year, that is to 
 say — (a) The sum of one million four hun- 
 dred and sixty-six thousand pounds on ac- 
 count of the interest on and management of 
 the Irish share of the National Debt. (6) 
 The sum of one million six hundred and 
 sixty-six thousand pounds on account of the 
 expenditure on the army and navy of the 
 United Kingdom, (c) The sum of one hun- 
 dred and ten thousand pounds on account of 
 the Imperial civil expenditure of the United 
 Kingdom. { d ) The sum of one million 
 
 pounds on account of the Royal Irish Con- 
 stabulary and the Dublin Metropolitan 
 Police. 
 
 (2.) During the period of thirty years from this 
 section taking effect, the said annual contri- 
 butions shall not be increased, but may be 
 reduced, or cease as hereinafter mentioned. 
 After the expiration of the said thirty years 
 the said contributions shall, save as otherwise 
 provided by this section, continue untilaltered 
 in manner provided by this section with re- 
 spect to the alteration of this act. 
 
 (3.) The Irish share of the National Debt Bhall 
 be reckoned at forty-eight million pounds 
 bank annuities, and there shall be paid in 
 every financial year on behalf of Ireland to 
 the Commissioners for the Reduction of the 
 National Debt an annual sum of three hun- 
 dred and sixty thousand pounds; and the per- 
 manent annual charge for the National Debt 
 ©n the Consolidated Fund of the Uuited 
 Kingdom shall be reduced by that amount, 
 and the said annual sum shall be applied 
 by the said Commissioners as a sinking fund 
 for the redemption of the National Debt; and 
 the Irish share of the National Debt shall 
 be reduced by the amount of the National 
 Debt so redeemed; and the said annual con- 
 tribution on account of the interest on and 
 management of the Irish share of the Na- 
 tional Debt shall from time to time be re- 
 duced by a sum equal to the interest upon 
 
 the amount of the National Debt from time 
 to time so redeemed, but that last-men- 
 tioned sum shall be paid annually to the 
 Commissioners for the Reduction of the Na- 
 tional Debt in addition to the above-men- 
 tioned annual sinking fund, and shall be so 
 paid and be applied as if it were part of that 
 sinking fund. 
 
 (4.) As soon as an amount of the National Debt 
 equal to the said Irish share thereof has been 
 redeemed under the provisions of this section, 
 the said annual contribution on account of 
 the interest on and management of the Irish 
 share of the National Debt, and the said an- 
 nual sum fora c sinking fund, shall cease. 
 
 (5.) If it appears to her Majesty that the expen- 
 diture in respect of the army and navy of the 
 United Kingdom, or in respect of Imperial 
 civil expenditure of the United Kingdom for 
 any financial year has been less than fifteen 
 times the amount of the contribution above 
 named on account of the same matter, a sum 
 equal to one-fifteenth part of the diminution 
 shall be deducted from the current annual 
 contribution for the same matter. 
 
 (6.) The sum paidfrom time to time bytheCom- 
 missioners of her Majesty’s Woods and Forests 
 and Land Revenues to the Consolidated Fund 
 of the United Kingdom on account of the 
 hereditary revenues of the Crown in Ireland, 
 shall be credited to the Irish Government, 
 and go in reduction of the said annual con- 
 tribution payable on account of 1-lie Imperial 
 civil expenditure of the United Kingdom, 
 but shall not be taken into account in calcu- 
 lating whether such diminution as above- 
 mentioned has or has not taken place in such 
 expenditure. 
 
 (7.) If it appears to her Majesty that the ex- 
 penditure in respect of the Ro} r al Irish Con- 
 stabulary and the Dublin Metropolitan Police 
 for any financial year has been less than the 
 contribution above-named, on account of such 
 Constabulary and Police, the current contri- 
 bution shall be diminished by the amount of 
 such difference. 
 
 (8.) This section shall take effect from and after 
 the 31st day of March, 1887. 
 
 XIV. (1.) On and after such day as the 
 Treasury may direct all moneys from time 
 to time collected in Ireland ou account of 
 the duties of Customs or the duties of Excise, 
 as dehned by this act, shall under such 
 regulations as the Treasury from time to 
 time make, be carried to a separate account 
 (in this act referred to .os the Customs and 
 Excise account), and applied in the payment 
 of the following sums in priority, as 
 mentioned in this section, that is to say — 
 First, of such sum as is from time to time 
 directed by the Treasury in respect of the 
 costs, charges, and expenses of and incident 
 to the collection and management of the said 
 duties in Ireland, not exceeding four per cent 
 of the amount collected there. Secondly, 
 of the annual contributions required by this 
 act to be made to the Consolidated Fund of 
 the United Kingdom. Thirdly, of the annual 
 sums required by this act to be paid to 
 the Commissioners for the Reduction of the 
 National Debt. Fourthly, of all sums by this 
 act declared to be payable out of the moneys 
 carried to the Customs and Excise account. 
 Fifthly, of all sums due to the Consolidated 
 Fund of the United Kingdom for interest or 
 
24 
 
 Sinking Fund in respect to any loans made 
 by the issue of bank annuities or otherwise 
 to the Government of Ireland under any 
 act passed in (lie present session relating to 
 the purchase and sale of land in Ireland, so 
 far as such sums are not defrayed out of the 
 moneys received under such act. 
 
 (2.) So much of the moneys carried to a sepa- 
 rate account under this section as the Trea- 
 sury consider are not, and are not likely to 
 be, required to meet the above-mentioned 
 payments, shall from time to time be paid 
 over and applied as part of the public 
 revenues under the control of the Irish Go- 
 vernment. 
 
 XV. (1.) There shall be charged on the Irish 
 Consolidated Fund in priority, as mentioned 
 in this section — First, such portion of the 
 sums directed by this act to be paid 
 out of the moneys carried to the Customs 
 and Excise account in priority to any pay- 
 ment for the public revenues of Ireland as 
 those moneys are insufficient to pay. Se- 
 condly, all sums due in respect of any debt 
 incurred by the Government of Ireland, whe- 
 ther for interest, management, or sinking 
 fund. Thirdly, all sums which at the pass- 
 ing of this act are charged on the Consoli- 
 dated Fund of the United Kingdom in respect 
 of Irish services other than the salary of the 
 Lord Lieutenant. Fourthly, the salaries of 
 all Judges of the Supreme Court of Judica- 
 ture, or other superior court in Ireland, or of 
 any county or other like court, who are ap- 
 pointed after the passing of this act, and the 
 pensions of such judges. Fifthly, any other 
 sums charged by this act on the Irish Conso- 
 lidated Fuud. 
 
 (2.) It shall be the duty of the Legislature of Ire- 
 land to impose all such taxes, duties, or im- 
 posts as will raise a sufficient revenue to meet 
 all sums charged for the time being on the 
 Irish Consolidated Fund. 
 
 XVI. Until all charges which are payable out 
 of the Church property in Ireland and are guaran- 
 teed by the Treasury have been fully paid, the 
 Irish Land Commission shall continue as hereto- 
 fore to exist, with such commissioners and officers 
 receiving such salaries as the Treasury may from 
 time to time appoint, and to administer the 
 Church property and apply the income and other 
 moneys receivable therefrom; and so much of 
 the salaries of such commissioners and officers, 
 and expenses of the office as is not paid out of 
 the Church property shall be paid out of moneys 
 carried to the Customs and Excise account under 
 this act; and if those moneys are insufficient, out 
 of the Consolidated Fund of Ireland; and if not 
 so paid shall be naid out of moneys provided by 
 Parliament as follows: — 
 
 (a) All charges on the Church property, for 
 which a guarantee has been given by the 
 Treasury before the passing of this act, shall, 
 so far as they are not paid out of such pro- 
 perty, be paid out of the moneys carried to 
 uie Customs and Excise account under this 
 act: and if such moneys are insufficient, out of 
 the Consolidated Fund of Ireland, without pre- 
 iudite, uevei theless, to the guarantee of the 
 Treasury. 
 
 ( 1 ) All charges on the Church property, for 
 which no guarantee has been given by the 
 Treasury before the passing of this act, shall 
 be charged on the Consolidated Fund of Ire- 
 land, but shall not be guaranteed by the 
 
 Treasury, nor charged good on the Consoli 
 dated Fund of the United Kingdom. 
 
 (2.) Subject to any existing charges on the 
 Church property, such property shall belong 
 to the Irish Government, and any portion of 
 the annual revenue thereof which the Trea- 
 sury, on the application of the Irish Govern- 
 ment, certify at the end of any financial year 
 not to be required for meeting charges shall 
 be paid over and applied as part of the public 
 revenues under the control of the Irish Go- 
 vernment. 
 
 (3.) As soon as all charges on the property gua- 
 ranteed by the Treasury have been paid, such 
 property may be managed and administered, 
 and subject to existing charges thereon dis- 
 posed of, and the income of proceeds thereof 
 applied in such manner as the Irish Legisla- 
 ture may from time to time direct. 
 
 (4.) “ Church Property ” in this section means 
 all property accruing under the Irish Church. 
 Act, 1869, and transferred to the Irish Land 
 Commission by the Irish Church Act Amend- 
 ment Act, 1881. 
 
 XVII (1.1 All sums due for principal or interest 
 to the Public Works Loan Commissioners or 
 to the Commissioners of Public Works in 
 Ireland in respect of existing loans advanced 
 on any security in Ireland shall, on and after 
 the appointed day, be due to the Government 
 of Ireland instead of the said Commissioners ; 
 and such body of persons as the Government 
 of Ireland may appoint for the purpose shall 
 have all the powers of the said Commis- 
 sioners, or their secretaries, for enforcing 
 payment of such sums, and all securities for 
 such sums, given to such Commissioners or 
 their secretary, shall have effect as if the 
 said body were therein substituted for those 
 Commissioners or their secretary. 
 
 (2.) For the repayment of the said loans to the 
 Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom, 
 the Irish Government should pay annually 
 into that fund by half-yearly payments 
 on the first day of January and the first day 
 of July, or on such other days as may be 
 agreed on, such instalments of the principal 
 of the said loans as will discharge all the 
 loans within thirty years from the appointed 
 day, and shall also pay interest half yearly on 
 so much of the said principal as from time 
 to time remains unpaid at the rate of three 
 per per cent per annum; and such instalments 
 of principal and interest shall be paid oute 
 of the moneys carried to the Customs and 
 Excise accounts under this act; and if those 
 are insufficient out of the Consolidated Fund 
 of Ireland, 
 
 XVIII. If her Majesty declares that a state of 
 war exists, and is pleased to signify such declara- 
 tion to the Irish Legislative Body by speech or 
 message, it shall be lawful for the Irish Legis- 
 lature to appropriate a further sum out of the 
 Consolidated Fund of Ireland in aid of the army 
 or navy, or other measures which her Majesty 
 may take for the prosecution of the war and de- 
 fence of the realm, and to provide and raise 
 money for such purpose ; and all moneys so pro- 
 vided and raised, whether by loan, taxation, or 
 otherwise, shall be paid into the Consolidated 
 Fund of the United Kingdom. 
 
 XIX. (1.1 It shall not he lawdul for the Irish 
 Legislative Body to adopt or pass any vote, 
 resolution, address, or bill for the raising or 
 appropriating for any purpose of any part of 
 
25 
 
 the public revenue of Ireland, or of any tax, 
 ■duty, or impost, except in pursuance of a 
 recommendation from her Majesty, signified 
 through the lord Lieutenant in the Session 
 in which such vote, resolution, address, or bill 
 is proposed. 
 
 ^2.) Notwithstanding that the Irish" Legislature 
 is prohibited by this act from making laws 
 relating to certain subjects, that Legislature 
 may, with the assent of her Majesty in 
 Council first obtained, appropriate any part 
 of the Irish public revenue or any tax, duty, 
 or impost imposed by such Legislature for 
 the purpose of or ‘in conjunction with such 
 subjects. 
 
 NX (1) On and after the appointed day, the 
 Exchequer Division of the High Court of 
 Justice shall continue to be a Court of Ex- 
 chequer for Revenue purposes under this act; 
 •and whenever any vacancy occurs in the 
 office of any Judge of such Exchequer Divi- 
 sion his successor shall be appointed by her 
 Majesty, on the joint recommendation of the 
 Lord Lieutenant of Ireland and the Lord 
 High Chancellor of Great Britain. 
 
 (2.1 The Judges .if such Exchequer Division 
 appointed after the passing of this act shall 
 be removable only by her Majesty on address 
 from the two Houses of the Imperial Parlia- 
 ment, and shall receive the same salaries and 
 pensions as those payable at the passing of 
 this act to the existing Judges of division, 
 unless, with the assent of her Majesty in 
 Council first obtained, the Irish Legislature 
 Altfcr such salaries or pensions ; and such 
 salaries and pensions shall be paid out of the 
 moneys carried to the Customs and Excise 
 account, in pursuance of this act; and if the 
 same are insufficient shall be paid out of the 
 Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom. 
 
 (3.) An alteration of any rules relating to the 
 procedure in such legal proceedings as are 
 ■mentioned in this section shall not be made 
 except with the approval of the Lord High 
 ’Chancellor of Great Britain, and the sittings 
 of the Exchequer Division and the Judges 
 thereof shall be regulated with the like ap- 
 proval. 
 
 (4.) All legal proceedings instituted in Ireland 
 by or against the Commissioners or any offi- 
 cers of Customs or Excise or the Treasury 
 shall, if so required by any party to such 
 proceedings, be heard and determined before 
 the Judges of such Exchequer Division or 
 •some or one of them ; and any appeal from 
 the decision in any such legal proceeding, if 
 by a Judge, shall lie to the said Division, and 
 if by the Exchequer Division, shall lie to the 
 House of Lords, and not to any other tri- 
 bunal ; and if it is made to appear to such 
 Judges, or any of them, that any decree or 
 judgment in any such proceeding as afore- 
 said has not been duly enforced by 
 the sheriff or other officer whose duty 
 it is to enforce the same, such Judges or 
 Judge shall appoiut some officer to enforce 
 such judgment or decree ; and it shall be 
 the duty of such officer to take proper steps 
 to enforce the same, and for that purpose 
 such officer and all such persons employed by 
 him shall be entitled to the same immuni- 
 ties, powers, and privileges as are by law con- 
 ferred on a sheriff and his officers. 
 
 ^5.) All sums recovered in respect of duties of 
 Customs and Excise, or under any act relat- 
 
 ing thereto, or by any officer of Customs or 
 Excise shall, notwithstanding anything in 
 any other act, be paid to the Tre -usury and 
 carried to Customs and Excise account under 
 this act. 
 
 POLICE. 
 
 XXL The following regulations shall be made 
 with respect to the police m Ireland : — 
 
 (а) The Dublin Metropolitan Police shall con- 
 tinue and be subject, as heretofore, to the 
 control of Ae Lord Lieutenant, as represent- 
 ing her Majesty for a period of two years, 
 from the passing of this act, and thereafter 
 until any alteration is made by act of the 
 Legislature of Ireland ; but such act shall . 
 provide for the proper saving of all then 
 existing interests, whether as regards pay, 
 pensions, superannuation allowances, or other- 
 wise. 
 
 (б) The Royal Irish Constabulary shall, while 
 that force subsists, continue and be subject, as 
 heretofore, to the control of the Lord Lieu- 
 tenant as representative of her Majesty. 
 
 (c) The Irish Legislature may provide for the 
 establishment and maintenance of a police 
 force in counties and boroughs in Ireland 
 under the con rol of local authorities; and 
 arrangements may be made between the, 
 Treasury and the Irish Government for the 
 establishment and maintenance of police 
 reserves. 
 
 SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS. 
 
 POWERS OP HER MAJESTY. 
 
 XXII. On and after the appointed day there, 
 shall be reserved to her Majesty the power of erect- 
 ing forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and. 
 other buildings for military or naval purposes, the 
 power of taking waste land, and, on making due 
 compensation, anv other land for the purpose of 
 erecting such forts, magazines, and tor any other 
 military or naval purpose for the defence of the 
 realm. 
 
 XXIII. If a bill, or any provision of a bill, is, 
 lost by disagreement between the two orders off 
 the Legislative Body, and alter a period ending 
 with a dissolution of the Legislative Body, or the 
 period of three years, whichever per od is longest* 
 such bill, or a bill containing the said provision, is 
 again considered by the Legislative Body, and 
 such bill or provision is adopted by the second 
 order and negatived by the first order, the same 
 shall be submitted to the whole Legislative Body* 
 both orders of which shall vote together on the 
 bill or provision, and the s-ame shall be adopted 
 or rejected according to the decision of the ma- 
 jority of the members so voting together. 
 
 XXIV. On and after the appointed day Ireland 
 shall cease, except in the event hereafter in this 
 act mentioned, to return representative peers to 
 the House of Lords, or membevs to the House of 
 Commons ; and the persons who, on the said day* 
 are such representative peers and metub r ,, siialk 
 cease as such to be members of the House off 
 Lords and House of Commons respectively. 
 
 DECISION OF CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTIONS. 
 
 XXV. Questions arising as to the powers con- 
 ferred on the Legislature of Ireland, under this 
 act, shall be determined as follows — (a) If any 
 such question arises on any bill passed by the: 
 Legislative Body, Lite Lord Lieutenant may refer- 
 such question to her Majesty in Council. (6J 
 If in the course of any action or other 
 legal proceeding such question arises on. 
 any act of the Irish Legislature, any party 
 to sucH action or other legal proceeding 
 
26 
 
 may, subject to the rules in this section men- 
 tioned, appeal from a decision on such question to 
 her Majesty m Council, (c) If any such question 
 arises otherwise than as aforesaid on any act of the 
 Irish Legislature, the Lord Lieutenant or one of 
 her Majesty’s principal Secretaries of State may 
 refer such question to her Majesty in Council. 
 {d) Any question referred or appeal brought un- 
 der this section to her Majesty in Council 
 ,shall be referred for the consideration of the 
 Judicial Committee of the Prwy Council. (c) 
 The decision of her Majesty in Council on any 
 question referred or appeal brought under this 
 section shall be final; and a bill which may be so 
 decided to be or contain a provision in excess 
 ■of the powers of the Irish Legislature 
 shall not be assented to by the Lord Lieutenant, 
 and a provision of any act which is so decided to 
 ibe in excess of the powers of the Irish Legisla- 
 ture shall be void. (/) There shall be added to 
 the Judicial Committee when sitting for the pur- 
 pose of considering questions under this section 
 such members of her Majesty’s Privy Council 
 being or having been Irish Judges as to her Ma- 
 jesty may seem meet, (g) Her Majesty may by 
 Order in Council from time to time make rules as 
 to the cases, and mode in which, and the condi- 
 tions under which, in pursuance of this section, 
 questions may be referred and appeals brought to 
 her Majesty in Council, and as to the considera- 
 tion thereof by the Judicial Committee of the 
 3Privy Council; and any rules so made shall be of 
 the same force as if they were enacted in this act. 
 (A) An appeal shall not be to the House of Lords 
 in respect of any question in respect of which an 
 •appeal can be had to her Majesty in Council in 
 pursuance of this section. 
 
 THE LORD LIEUTENANT. 
 
 XXVL (1.) Notwithstanding anything to the 
 contrary contained in any Act of Parliament, 
 every subject of her Majesty shall be eligible 
 to hold and enjoy the office of Lord Lieute- 
 nant of Ireland without reference to his re- 
 ligious belief. 
 
 (2.) The salary of the Lord Lieutenant shall 
 continue to be charged on the Consolidated 
 Fund of the United Kingdom, and the ex- 
 penses of his household and establishment 
 shall continue to be defrayed out of moneys 
 to be provided by Parliament. 
 
 (3.) All existing powers vested by Act of Par- 
 liament or otherwise in the Chief Secretary 
 for Ireland may, if no such officer is ap 
 pointed, be exercised by the Lord Lieutenant 
 until other provision is made by an act oi the 
 Irish Legislature. 
 
 (4.) The legislature of Ireland shall not pass 
 any act relating to the office or functions of 
 the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. 
 
 JUDGES AND CIVIL SERVANTS. 
 
 XXVII. A judge of the Supreme Court of 
 Judicature or other superior court of Ireland, or 
 of any county court, or other court with a like 
 jurisdiction in Ireland, appointed after the pass- 
 ing of this act, shall not be removed from his 
 office except in pursuance of an address to her 
 Majesty from both orders of the Legislative Body 
 voting separately, nor shall his salary be dimi- 
 nished or right to pension altered during his con- 
 tinuance in office. 
 
 XXVIII (J). All persons who at the passing of 
 this act are Judges of the Supreme Court of 
 Judicature or County Court Judges, or hold 
 any other judicial position in Ireland, shall, 
 if they are removable at present on address 
 
 to her Majesty of both Houses of Parlia- 
 ment, continue to be removable only upon 
 sucti address from both Houses of the Im- 
 perial Parliament; and if removable in any 
 othlr manner should continue to be remov- 
 able in any other manner as hertofore; and 
 such persons, and also all persons at the 
 passing of this act in the permanent Civil 
 Service of the Crown in Ireland whose sala- 
 ries are charged on the Consolidated Fund ©i 
 the United Kingdom, should continue to hold 
 office and to be entitled to the same salaries, 
 pensions, and superannuation allowances as 
 hertofore, and to be liable to the same or 
 analogous duties as heretofore; and the salaries 
 of such persons shall be paid out of the 
 moneys carried out of the Customs and 
 Excise account under this act; or if these 
 moneys are insufficient, out of the Irish Con- 
 solidated Fund; and if the same are not so. 
 paid shall continue charged on the Consoli- 
 dated Fund of the United Kingdom. 
 
 (2). If any of the said persons retire from office 
 with the approbation of her Majesty before 
 he has completed the period of service en- 
 titling him to a pension, it shall be lawful for 
 her Majesty, if she thinks fit, to grant to that 
 person sueli pension, not exceeding the pen- 
 sion to which he would have been entitled if 
 he had completed the said period of service, 
 as to her Majety seems meet. 
 
 XXIX — (1). All persons not above provided for, 
 and at the passing of this act serving in Ire- 
 land in the permanent Civil Service of the 
 Crown, shall continue to hold their office and 
 receive the same salaries and to be en- 
 titled to the same gratuities and 
 superannuation allowances as heretofore, and 
 shall be liable to perform the same 
 duties as heretofore, or duties of similar 
 rank; but anjKof such persons shall be en- 
 titled at the expiration of two years after 
 the passing of this act to retire from office, 
 tnd at any time, if required by the Irish Go- 
 ment, shall retire from office, and on any 
 such retirement shall be entitled to receive 
 such payment as the Treasury may award ta 
 him, in accordance with the provisions con- 
 tained in the 4th schedule to this act. 
 
 (2) The amount of such payment shall be paid 
 to him out of the moneys carried to the Cus- 
 toms and Excise account under this act; or, 
 if those moneys are insufficient, out of the 
 Irish Consolidated Fund, and, so far as the 
 same are not so paid, shall be paid out of 
 moneys provided by Parliament. 
 
 (3) The Pensions Commutation Act (1871) 
 shall apply to persons who, having retired 
 from office, are entitled to any annual pay- 
 ment under this section in like manner as if 
 they had retired in consequence of the aboli- 
 tion of their offices. 
 
 (4) This section shall not apply to persons who- 
 are retained in the service »f the Imperial 
 Government. 
 
 XXX. Where before the passing of this act 
 any pension or superannuation allowance has 
 been granted to any person on account of service 
 as a Judge of the Supreme Court of Judicature- 
 of Ireland, or of any consolidated into that court, 
 or as a County Court Judge, or in any any other 
 judicial position, or on account of service in the 
 permanent Civil Service of the Crown in Ireland, 
 otherwise than in some office, th© holder ot which 
 is after the passing of this act retained in the 
 
27 
 
 service of the Imperial Government, such pension 
 or allowance, whether payable out of the Consoli- 
 dated Fund or out of money provided by Parlia- 
 ment, shall continue to be paid to such person, 
 and shall be so paid out of the moneys carried to 
 the Customs and Excise account under this act; 
 or, if such moneys are insufficient, out of the 
 Irish Consolidated Fund; and so far as the same 
 is not so paid shall be paid as heretofore out of 
 the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom or 
 moneys provided by Parliament. 
 
 XXXI. The provisions contained in the 5th 
 Schedule to this act relating to the mode in which 
 arrangements are to be made for setting in mo- 
 tion the Irish Legislative Body and Government 
 and for tiie transfer to the Irish Government of 
 the powers and duties to be transferred to them 
 under this act, or for otherwise bringing this act 
 into operation, shall be of the same effect as if 
 they were enacted in the body of this act. 
 MISCELLANEOUS. 
 
 XXXII. 'Whenever an act of the Legislature of 
 Ireland has provided for carrying on the postal 
 and telegraphic service with respect to the trans- 
 mission of letters and telegrams in Ireland and 
 the Post Office and other savings banks in Ire- 
 land, for protecting the officers then in such ser- 
 vice, and the existing depositors in such Post 
 Office savings banks, the Treasury shall make ar- 
 rangements for the transfer of the said service and 
 banks in accordance with the said act, and shall 
 give public notice of the transfer, and shall pay 
 all depositors in such Post Office savings banks 
 who request payment within six months after the 
 date fixed for such transfer, and after the expira- 
 tion of such six months the said depositors shall 
 cease to have any claim against the Postmaster-- 
 General or the Consolidated Fund of the United 
 Kingdom, but shall have the like claim against 
 the Consolidated Fund df Ireland, and the Trea- 
 sury shall cause to be transferred in accordance 
 with the said act securities representing the sums 
 due to the said depositors in Post-office savings 
 banks and the securities held for other savings 
 banks. 
 
 XXXIII. Save as otherwise provided by the 
 Irish Legislature, (a) the existing law relating to 
 the Exchequer and the Consolidated Fund of the 
 United Kingdom shall apply to the Irish Exche- 
 quer and Consolidated Fund, an officer shall from 
 time to time be appointed by the Lord Lieu- 
 tenant to fill the office of Comptroller- General of 
 the receipts and issue of her Majesty’s Exchequer 
 and Auditor-General of public accounts so far 
 as respects Ireland; and (b) accounts of the Irish 
 Consolidated Fund shall be audited as appropria- 
 tion accounts in the manner provided by the Ex- 
 chequer and Audit Departments Act, 1866, by or 
 under the direction of the holder of such office. 
 
 XXXIV. (1.) The privileges, immunities, and 
 powers to be held, enjoyed, and exercised by 
 the Irish Legislative Body and the members 
 thereaf shall be suc-h as are from time to time 
 defined by act of the Irish Legislature, but 
 so that the same shall never exceed those at 
 the passing of this act held, enjoyed, and exer- 
 cised by the House of Commons and by the 
 members thereof. 
 
 (2.) Subject as in this act mentioned, all exist- 
 ing laws and customs relating to the mem- 
 bers of the House of Commons and their 
 election, including the enactments respect- 
 ing the questioning of elections, corrupt and 
 illegal practices, and registration of electors, 
 shall, so far <is applicable, extend to elective 
 
 members, the first order, and to members of 
 the second of the Irish Legislative Body, pro- 
 vided that — 
 
 (a) The law relating to the offices of profit 
 enumerated in Schedule H to the Represen- 
 tation of the People Act, 1867, shall apply to 
 such offices of profit in the Government of 
 Ireland not exceeding ten, .as the Legislature 
 of Ireland may from time to time direct. 
 
 ( b ) After the first dissolution of the Legislative 
 Body the Legislature of Ireland may, subject 
 to the restriction in this act mentioned, alter 
 the laws and customs in this section men- 
 tioned. 
 
 XXXV. (1.) The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland 
 may make regulations for the following pur- 
 poses : — 
 
 (a) The summoning of the Legislative Body and 
 the election of a Speaker, and such adapta- 
 tion to the proceedings of the Legislative 
 Body of the procedure of the House pf Com- 
 mons as appears to him expedient for facilitat- 
 ing the conduct of business by that body 
 on their first meeting. 
 
 (&) The adaptation of any law relating to the 
 election of representative peers. 
 
 (c) The adaptation of any laws and customs 
 relating to the House of Commons or the 
 members of the second order of the Legis- 
 lative Body; and 
 
 ( d ) The mode of signifying their assent or elec- 
 tion under this ?cb by representative peers 
 or Irish members of the House of Com- 
 mons as regards becoming members of the 
 Irish Legislative Body in pursuance of this 
 act. 
 
 (2.) Any regulations so made shall, in so far 
 as they concern the procedure of the Legis- 
 lative Body be subject to alteration by 
 standing orders of that body, and so far a* 
 they concern other matters, be subject to al- 
 teration by the Legislature of Ireland, but 
 shall, until alteration, have the same effect 
 as if they were inserted in this act. 
 
 XXXVI. Save as in this act provided with re- 
 spect to matters to be decided by her Majesty in 
 Council nothing in tliis act shall affect the ap- 
 pellate jurisdiction of the House of Lords in re- 
 spect of actions and suits in Ireland, or the juris- 
 diction of the House of Lords to determine the 
 claims to Irish peerages. 
 
 XXXVII. Save as herein expressly provided, ail 
 matters in relation to which it is not competent 
 for the Irish Legislative Body to make or repeal 
 laws shall retain and be within the exclusive 
 authority of the Imperial Parliament, save as 
 aforesaid, whose power and authority in relation 
 thereto shall in nowise be diminished or re- 
 strained by anything herein contained. 
 
 XXXVIII. (1.) Except as otherwise provided by 
 tliis act, all existing laws in force in Ireland 
 and all existing courts of civil and criminal 
 jurisdiction, and all existing legal commis- 
 sions, powers, and authorities, and all exist- 
 ing officers, judicial, administrative, and 
 ministerial, and all existing taxes, licences, 
 and other duties, fees, and other receipts in 
 Ireland shall continue as if this act had not 
 been p;issed, subject nevertheless to be re- 
 pealed, abolished, or altered in the manner 
 and to the extent provided by this act: pro- 
 vided that subject to the provisions of this 
 act such taxes, duties, fees, and other re- 
 ceipts shall after the appointed day form 
 part of the public revenues of Ireland. 
 
28 
 
 (2.) The Commissioners of Inland Revenue, and 
 the Commissioners of Customs, and the 
 officers of such commissioners respectively 
 shall have the same powers in relation to 
 any articles subject to any dut}' 
 of Excise or Customs manufactured, 
 imported, kept for sale, or sold, and any pre- 
 mises where the same may be, and to any 
 machinery, apparatus, vessels, utensils, or 
 conveyance used in connection therewith, or 
 the removal thereof, and in relation to the 
 person manufacturing, importing, keeping for 
 sale, selling, or having the custody or posses- 
 sion of the same, as they would have had if 
 this act had not been passed. 
 
 XXXIX. (1.) On and after the appointed day 
 this act should not, except such [>ro visions 
 thereof as are declared to be alterable by the 
 Legislature of Ireland, be altered except — 
 (a') By act of theImperialParliament,and with 
 the consent of the Irish Legislative Body testi- 
 fied by an address to her Majesty ; or (6) by 
 an act of the Imperial Parliament for the 
 passing of which there should be summoned 
 to the House of Lords the peerage members 
 of the first order of the Irish Legislative 
 Body, and if there are no such members, then 
 28 Irish representative peers elected by the 
 Irish peers in manner heretofore in use, sub- 
 ject to adaptation, as provided by this act. 
 And there shall be summoned to the House 
 of Commons such one of the members of 
 each constituency, or, in case of a con- 
 stituency returning four members, such two 
 of those members as the Legislative Body of 
 Ireland may select, and such peers and mem- 
 bers shall respectively be deemed for the 
 purpose of passing any such act to be 
 members of the said Houses of Parliament 
 ^respectively. 
 
 (2.) For the purpose of this section it shall be 
 lawful for her Majesty, by Order in Council, 
 to make such provisions for summoning the 
 said peers of Ireland to the House of Lords, 
 and the said members from Ireland to the 
 House of Commons, as to her Majesty may 
 seem necessary or proper; and any provisions 
 contained in such Order in Council shall have 
 the same effect as if they had been enacted 
 by Parliament. 
 
 XL. In this act, the expression “ the ap- 
 pointed day” shall mean such day after the 
 thirty-first day of March, in the year one thousand 
 eight hundred and eiglity-seven, as may be 
 determined by order of her Majesty in Council. 
 The expression “ Lord Lieutenant” includes the 
 Lords justices or any other chief governor or 
 governors of Ireland for the time being. The 
 expression “ Her Majesty the Queen” or “ Her 
 Majesty,” or “ the Queen” includes the heirs and 
 successors of her Majesty the Queen. The ex- 
 pression “ Treasury” means the Commissioners oi 
 her Majesty’s Treasury. The expression “ Treaty” 
 includes any convention or arrangement. The 
 expression “ existing” means existing at the pass- 
 ing of this act. The expression “ existing con- 
 stituency” means any county or borough, or divi- 
 sion of a county or borough, or a university re- 
 turning at the passing of this act a member or 
 members to serve in Parliament. The expres- 
 sion “ duties of Excise” does not include a duty 
 received in respect of any licence whether for 
 the sale of intoxicating liquors or otherwise. The 
 expression “ financial year” means the twelve 
 months ending on the 31st day of March. 
 
 XLI. This act may be cited for all purposes as 
 .the Irish Government Act, 1886. 
 
RIGHT 
 
 S P E E C H 
 
 OF THE 
 
 HON, I. E, GLADSTONE, H.P., 
 
 INTRODUCING THE 
 
 LAND PURCHASE BILL. 
 
 In the House of Commons on Friday, Apiil 16, 
 Mr. GLADSTONE, who was received Avith loud 
 cheers from the Ministerial and Irish benches, said 
 — Mr. Speaker, I have now to ask the house for 
 permission to bring in a bill to make amended 
 provision for the sale and purchase of land in Ire- 
 land, in so doing completing a speech in which I 
 began on Thursday last, which, though inordi- 
 nately long, remained unfinished. I use this lan- 
 guage to describe, not any power that I know of 
 binding upon the Legislature to treat these two 
 questions as united questions — that must be for 
 the decision of Parliament itself — but to describe 
 their tenor in the mind3 of my colleagues. I 
 stand in a 
 
 PECULIAR POSITION 
 
 in the face of several sections of the house and of 
 the people with regard to this question. As re- 
 gards the Irish tenants, the proposal I have to 
 make is one which ivill undoubtedly confer upon 
 them a great benefit. The people of Ireland, con- 
 sidered iu the mass, will also be benefited, but 
 the principal and most immediate object of the 
 measure is to 
 
 BENEFIT THE LANDLORDS OF IRELAND, 
 and to ask the House of Commons to make a 
 serious and considerable effort on behalf of the 
 landlords of Ireland. Many, I knoiv, are strongly 
 opposed to the Government policy on this ques- 
 tion, and many who are friendly to it still re- 
 solve and feel it to be their duty to give to the 
 policy a jealous reception. I do not complain of 
 this. In watching our policy with jealousy they 
 are, in my opinion, only doing their duty to their 
 constituents and to the people at large. They 
 lia\'e learnt that an effort is to be made in 
 which either the m<»ney or the credit of the British 
 Exchequer is to be made available for the Irish 
 landlords should they be disposed to accept 
 the option offered to them. I do not draiv 
 any distinction between the money and the 
 credit of the nation (hear hear) — the credit of 
 the nation is just as precious as its money (hear, 
 hear). But sonic discrimination should *be used 
 by the representatives of the people Avith regard 
 to the use of the one and the expenditure of the 
 other. I Avill explain the aspect in which Ave 
 regard this great question. The end and aim of 
 all our endeavours is not, in the first place and 
 for its own sake, simply the contentment of 
 the people in Ireland, but it is for the sake of 
 aecuring 
 
 THE SOCIAL ORDER OF THE COUNTRY. 
 (Cheers). That is our first and most sacred and 
 necessary aitn, and the aim of ev’ery Government 
 which knoAvs its duty (cheers). Our object and 
 Vim are to bring about that social order by means 
 winch have not recently been employed, and 
 which we hope will be something of a permanent 
 tenaedy. In the first, place, we shall request the 
 house to make arrangements for 
 
 GOVERNING IRELAND IN IRISH MATTERS BY IKIS2E 
 LAWS. 
 
 (Parnellite cheers.) In the second place, Ave will 
 undertake to make, not a partial tentative, and 
 timid, but a serious effort to settle the land! 
 question (cheers). Noav, sir, these are ques- 
 tions which at the present moment ought nob to 
 be separated one from the other. Of course when. 
 I speak of questions I speak of a plan in genera?; 
 AA r hich the Go A'ernment formed; and I do not in- 
 clude or attempt to press on the house eA r ery mi- 
 nute particular of the rather complex and com- 
 prehensive plan. Now, sir, I think the argument 
 that I have to make divides itself into these* 
 three heads, and also the objections that I hav® 
 to meet. It will be demanded of me, in the first 
 place, why should the land Question of Ireland be 
 settled? Why cannot you leave it to be dealt Avitli 
 by the organ which Ave are asking Parliament t»> 
 call into existence? That is the question. Strpr- 
 posing that I am able to prove that an affirmative 
 answer should De given to that inquiry, and next 
 not the least unfair question to be put by the re- 
 presentatives of the people, and which merits te» 
 be put to a certain extent in the tone and 
 the aspect of rejection, is — Why must Great 
 Britain be cumbered with this question? We£? r . 
 I hope to sIioav that it is an obligation of honour 
 and policy that Great Britain should so under- 
 take it. But I ask no assent to that proposition 
 at present. And then, thirdly, I shall justly fee 
 asked, and I shall not attempt to shirk the irr- 
 quiry, are avc to run pecuniary risks on the part 
 of the English and Scotch people for the pur- 
 pose of meeting this Irish \A r ant? I hope, as K 
 have already said with regard to the tAvo former 
 inquiries which I confidently meet with aw 
 afiirma + ive answer, to give this a not less* 
 strongly and clearly negative reply. But I acb- 
 mit Avithout reservation that upon my proof or 
 non -proof of Avhat I am now asserting Avith re- 
 gard to these three points all depends as regard® 
 the case that I ask to make and as regards th® 
 reception Avhich the house, in my humble opinio®, 
 ought to give to that case. The first question 
 then, sir, is 
 
 MUST THE LAND QUESTION BE DEALT WITH ? 
 
 Sir, it is impossible for me, even if I draw on this 
 indulgence of the house, to answer that question 
 — it can be only answered fully by a careful 
 study of the whole history of Ireland. I shaK 
 state the minimum of what appears to ine to be 
 necessary, and shall trust to tho knoAvledge of th® 
 hon member" to fill up what may be lacking ir* 
 my statement. Even, sir, the little that I shall 
 state Avill probably be treated, and may possibly 
 appear, as an indictment against the Irish land- 
 lords. Now, sir, upon that subject I engage t® 
 say in a few Avords that it i3 an indictment againfe. 
 the Irish landlords, mainly in the past — against; 
 w, I hope, in the present. But, although thosa 
 
:30 
 
 upon whom censure ought to he pronounced may 
 unhappily have been heirs to a sad inheritance, 
 they have taken up and been compelled to take 
 «P 
 
 1 DISMAL AND DEPLORABLE TRADITIONS 
 
 (hear, hear), and when oppression has wrought it- 
 self from painful experience into the heart) and 
 mind of the people, it is not in the minute, not in 
 a year, not in a generation, that the traces of that 
 dreadful process can be effaced (hear, hear). Sir, 
 I may perhaps refer to a case which is in point. 
 In 1633 this house — to its great honour and to its 
 lasting fame — passed an act for the emancipation 
 of the negroes of the West Indies — it established 
 a system which is known as apprenticeship, and 
 which was intended to invest the negro popula- 
 tion with all the rights of freedom, except the 
 liability to render a certain carefully limited 
 amount of labour for a carefully limited time. 
 Well, sir, that law was generally peacefully 
 obeyed. But a great philanthropist in this 
 country, whose name should ever be held in 
 honour, Mr. Joseph Sturge, made inquiries for 
 himself in the West Indies, and by his own eyes 
 and his own ears satisfied himself that in the case 
 of certain estates there was a deliberate attempt 
 being made to keep alive the spirit and institu- 
 tions of slavery under the guise of apprentice- 
 ship. He brought back a statement of those 
 cases to this country. It was not so much 
 as asserted that this represented the general 
 state of things in the West Indies or even in 
 Jamaica, but such was the impression produced by 
 those few cases of horrible abuse and contuma- 
 cious resistence to the will of Parliament, as well 
 as to the dictates of humanity, that after a 
 struggle in this house it was felt that the appren- 
 ticeship must at once — against the Parliamen- 
 tary covenant of 1833— must at once be put an 
 end to, and accordingly it reached an immediate 
 and an unexpected consummation. That I quote 
 as an instance of the way in which the offence of 
 a few may be visited upon many. I have the 
 honour of knowing myself many Irish landlords 
 who are an honour to the class to which they be- 
 long) and I hope what I have said will show that 
 in quoting the mournful testimony of history I 
 do not seek to make them personally responsible 
 for difficulties, and for evils of which they are the 
 victims rather than the cause. Sir, I must go 
 back to 
 
 THE ORIGIN OP AGRARIAN CRIME, 
 which is the index of the difficulty with which I 
 call upon the house t* leal, and how agrarian 
 crime had an origin in Ireland. Speaking gene- 
 rally of the Celtic population as they live in Ire- 
 land, I believe that a great and an almost inex- 
 haustible patience has been one of their most pro- 
 minent characteristics (hear, hear). It was not 
 among the Celts of Ireland that agrarian crime 
 began (hear, hear, from the Irish benches) — it was 
 in a population — in the population of Tip- 
 perary — dashed with a stronger and more 
 vivacious blood that the spirit of resistance 
 arose; and I will take my description 
 of the state of things at that crisis from a source 
 which if suspected of prepossession at all, cannot 
 lie suspected of prepossessions either too favour- 
 able to myself personally, or to the policy which 
 we recommend. I am going to quote from the 
 historical work of Mr. Froude, known as 
 “ THE ENGLISH IN IRELAND,” 
 end I think, when I refer to the mere name of that 
 distinguished man, it shows that I am not seeking 
 to avail myself unduly of the evidence of a witness 
 who has prejudiced the case in my favour. On 
 
 that subject I may remind the house that it is the 
 opinion of Mr. Froude that the right course for 
 the Government to pursue in the last century — 
 for the British Government to pursue — would 
 have been to block the Irish Parliament — that is 
 never to summon it — to appropriate what he 
 terms the hereditary revenues, and to supply the 
 annuaLdeficit in the Irish Exchequer at the cost 
 of the Treasury of England. The re foie you cannot 
 say that the man who proposes the restriction of 
 repi*esentative institutions in Ireland, and the 
 subsitution of what he meant to be a benevolent 
 absolutism, is a man prepossessed in favour of the 
 policy which we recommend. But Mr. Froude, 
 though perhaps a man of prepossessions — on that 
 I will give no opinion — is certainly a man of truth 
 and honour, and who, if he sees what he 
 believes to be an injustice, will not allow 
 his heart and his conscience to tamper with 
 the principles involved in exposing it. What 
 says Mr. Froude as to the condition of the Irish 
 peasantry before the outbreak of agrarian crime ? 
 In the second volume of that work, at the ^Oth 
 page, he compares the condition of the Irish cul- 
 tivator, such as it had then become, with what it 
 had been under its native chiefs, and he says — 
 
 “ To four-fifths of the Irish peasantry the change of 
 masters meant only a grinding tyranny, and tyranny tho 
 more unendurable because inflicted by aliens in blood 
 and creed. Under their old chiefs they had been mi- 
 ser ble, but they were suffering at least at the hands of 
 their natural s. ereign” — I believe that of his natural 
 sovereign an Irishman is by nature inclined to think 
 much — “ and the clansman who bore his lord’s tyranny 
 if harshly used by his own master was protected by him. 
 against others, and could not feel himself utterly with- 
 out a friend. ; But the oppression of the peasantry irfth© 
 last century was not even the oppression of a living man; 
 it was the oppression of a system. The peasant of Tip- 
 perary was in the grasp of a dead man. The will of a 
 master whom he never saw was enforced against him by 
 a law irresistible as destiny. The absentee landlords of 
 Ireland had neither community of interest with the 
 people nor sympathy of race. They had no fear of pro- 
 voking resentment, for they lived beyond their reach. 
 They had no desire for their welfare, for as individuals 
 they were ignorant of their existence. They regarded 
 their Irish estates as the source of their income, Their 
 only desire was to extract the most out of them which 
 the soil could be made to yield, and they cared no more 
 for the souls and bodies of those who were in fact com- 
 mitted to their charge than the owners of West Indian 
 plantations for the poor slaves whose backs were blis- 
 tering in the cane fields. ’ 
 
 Well, then, sir, that was the state of things 
 that attended the origin of agrarian crime 
 in the year 176 j, and from that 
 
 its continuance has been uninterrupted with 
 a terrible facility from time to time of ex- 
 pansion to alarming dimensions — nay, more, with 
 a facility and a power of turning itself iuto 
 armed force. Sir, I will read a few more words 
 from Mr. Filoude on this portion of the subject. 
 He shows with what fatal force there came upon 
 Ireland at that period a , combination of symp- 
 toms grouping together for the misery of the 
 land. In the first place, owing to the increased 
 demand from England for animal food, there was 
 the conversion of the small holdings into 
 MERE GRAZING FARMS. 
 
 In the second place, o\\ ig to the same cause, 
 there was the withdrawal of hill pastures from 
 the tenants who had traditionally enjoyed them 
 as accompaniments to their small arable holdings. 
 There was the constant raising of rents, and there 
 was the progressive and rapid increase of absen- 
 teeism. Mr. Froude says in a passage shorter 
 than the one I have read, that many causes had 
 combined at that moment to exasperate the 
 normal irritation of the southern peasantry, and 
 he presently goes on to show that the irritation 
 
31 
 
 ;»a» not confined to the southern peasantry — that 
 ffdth the growth of what is called civilisation, ab- 
 senteeism, the worst discord to the country, had 
 increased. He says — 
 
 In Charles II’s time the absentees were few or none; 
 but the better Irishmen were educated, and the more 
 they knew the rest of the world the le-s agreable they 
 found Ireland and Irish manners, while the more they 
 separated themselves from their estates the more they 
 increased their rents to support the cost of living else- 
 where. 
 
 (Loud Irish and Ministerial sheers). Sir, that is 
 the account given by Mr. ^'roude. I leave the 
 house to appreciate its weight (Home Rule 
 cheers). What else have we to take into ac- 
 count ? (Hear, hear). The Irish Parliament, al- 
 though at that time its independence had not 
 been acknowledged, was alive and active, which 
 was displayed in a number of controversies be- 
 tween England and Ireland. Ireland was dis- 
 playing a real, if a narrow, patriotism. But, sir, I 
 must distinguish broadly between the Irish Par- 
 liament, which I rejoice to commend where it can 
 be done, between the Irish Parliament on ques- 
 tions of nationality and the Irish Parliament on 
 questions of class (hear, hear). The Irish Par- 
 liament was hostile to absentees, for they were 
 essentially anti-national. The 'Irish Parliament 
 did not struggle to do justice to the tenant ; it 
 was a Parliament composed partly of pensioners, 
 partly of policemen, and the rest of landlords 
 (Home Rule cheers), and the action of that Par- 
 liament did nothing to mitigate this evil ; and if 
 it be true that there werp coercion acts from year 
 to year, that deplorable fact only stregthens the 
 statement I have made, and shows how this sad 
 and dreadful mischief — this agrarian crime — took 
 root in the country (hear and cheers). Sir, in the 
 variety of incidents of social life there are, unhap- 
 pily, many marriages barren, and many families 
 die out ; but there is one marriage which is never 
 without issue — where oppression on the one hand 
 is married to misery on the other, then there 
 spring from the union 
 
 A FATAL AND HIDEOUS PROGENY OF CRIME. 
 That progeny perpetuates itself and hands on a 
 baneful miserable inheritance from generation to 
 generation (hear, hear). That is the case with 
 Irish absenteeism. That is the case with the 
 rooted tendency to crime which sprang from 
 crimes most disgraceful to those who were 
 charged with the Government of Ireland and the 
 care of its population — most disgraceful to them, 
 most vexing, most embarrassing to us (hear). 
 Another circumstance tending further to compli- 
 cate the case has been added to those I have al- 
 ready enumerated — the struggle with the agrarian 
 relations between landlord and tenant has been 
 continued, and has been until very lately seriously 
 aggravated. The difference of religion down 
 to 1829 was the basis of an odious political 
 system, and traces of it unfortuately survived 
 that period. One point of union there was 
 between the Irish landlord and tenant — that sen- 
 timent of nationality which the old Irish Parlia- 
 ment never lost, has, I am sorry to say, since the 
 Union gradually ceased to operate, ceased to form 
 a bond of connection between those classes, ceased 
 to have a mitigating and beneficial influence on 
 Irish affairs. After what I have said, after the 
 fearful exasperations which have been introduced 
 into these agrarian relations which are the deter- 
 mining element of society and life — after a long 
 continuance of mischief, so that it had become 
 chronic in their system and formed part of the 
 habits of the people, we arrive at the conclusion 
 that it would be ill intended, and an ill-shapen 
 
 kindness to any class in Ireland tc hand over fc 9 
 the Irish Legislature as its first introduction tc 
 the work that it may have to perform the business 
 of 
 
 DEALING WITH THE QUESTION OF LAND. 
 
 It would be like giving over to Ireland the worst 
 of her feuds — to confront her with the neces- 
 citv of efforts that possibly might be hopeless, 
 that at any rate would be attended with most fear- 
 ful risk (hear, hear). And now I come to the 
 second question. I have told you how terrible 
 the first is — the land iu itself. Why is Great 
 Britain to be cumbered with this subject ? Are 
 we bound to cumber ourselves with it ? Is it aia 
 obligation of policy — is it a dictate of honour ? 
 
 I am satisfied that this house, however reluctant — 
 and you cannot be more reluctant than we are — iff. 
 it be an obligation of policy, if it be a dictate o£ 
 honour, if it be both, or one or the other, will 
 riot shrink from any duty that these considera- 
 tions may entail (hear, hear). Why, then, are wa 
 to cumber Great Britain ? — that is the question 
 before us — with the endeavour to settle it by 
 our action, which is no slight matter ? First, I 
 will point out that our objections have been ad- 
 mitted — already admitted — in partial form, 
 
 which I believe the house, certainly the party 
 opposite, have shown a great disposition to en-. 
 large nominally in what we call our existing Land 
 Purchase Acts. I consider these acts to repi-esenfc 
 an extremely bad and dangerous form of deal- 
 ing with this obligation, and I do it on this: 
 ground, that their basis is to place the 
 British Treasury in contact with the individual 
 occupier and farmer in Ireland. In our opinion,, 
 sir, that is 
 
 NOT A WISE POLICY. 
 
 (hear, hear). I don’t entertain a mistrust of an 
 Irishman’s disposition to liquidate his pecuniary 
 engagements. I believe he may very well, ex- 
 cept under circumstances of peculiar exaspera- 
 tion — he may very well bear comparison with 
 competitors in other countries in that matter ; 
 but it is a dangerous thing for a State, which the 
 course of policy and the condition of legislation 
 have led people to regard as essentially a foreign 
 State, to make thernin great numbers individually 
 its debtors — dangerous because as tempting to 
 them — dangerous because Extremely unsafe for 
 the State to be considered as a creditor. I will 
 go on to another consideration, which is not one 
 of honour but of prudence. As we have struggled 
 to iutroduce into the Irish Government bill, what 
 w r e called safeguards for minorities without, I 
 must admit, obtaining the smallest mitigation 
 from opponents of their opposition. Acting upon 
 the same principle, and, if I may allow myself ta 
 use the hallowed words in no jesting spirit,. 
 “ walking by faith and not by sight,” we desire, 
 by exhibiting the utmost consideration for 
 THE IMPERILLED CLASSES, 
 
 or, at any rate, for the class impressed deeply with, 
 fear and apprehension — the Irish landlords, to do 
 everything on their behalf which duty will allow 
 us to do. If such proposals should produce a 
 mitigating effect it might lead to an easier and 
 a speedier concession to Ireland 0 $ what we 
 know to be her demand, and which we be- 
 lieve to be her rights ; and if not, still we 
 have done our best, and we must leave the 
 issue to a higher power. Now, sir, what are tho 
 substantial reasons — these are collateral con- 
 siderations — what are the substantial reasons 
 why we think it is the absolute duty of Great: 
 Britain to make herself a party in this matter to 
 the extent at least of a just offer and a fair 
 
opportunity being given to the Irish landlords ? 
 “Well, sir, I sum up iu one word — we cannot wash 
 ourselves clean and clear of this responsibility — 
 Ifclie deeds of the Irish landlords are to a great ex- 
 tent our deeds(hear) — we are participators in those 
 deeds, we with power in our hands looked on. We 
 ■not only looked on, but we encouraged and sus- 
 Sbained them, if I may be permitted to say so to 
 my fellow-representatives from Scotland. The 
 case of Scotland is a hard one in this matter, for 
 England had the blessing in the 18th century of 
 a representative system which, if not perfect, yet 
 nwe know from great occasions like that of 1783, 
 and like that of 1831, did suffice to bring to the 
 front a strong national sentiment. Scotland had 
 no such system. Four thousand or five thousand 
 ihad in their hands at that time the entire repre- 
 sentation of the nation. The Scotch people, 
 therefore, may thank God that as a nation they 
 have no responsibility for 
 
 THE DREADFUL HISTORY 
 
 of the relations between Great Britain and Ire- 
 land. I must, however, speak now of the doings 
 of the Imperial Parliament on which Scotland was 
 not allowed to exercise any influence. I have 
 said that the landlords were our garrison. Let me 
 a little unfold that sentence. We planted them 
 there, and we replanted them in 1641, in 1688, 
 and again in 1798 we reconquered the country 
 for them. I heard a gallant gentleman speak- 
 ing a few nights ago in this house — he seemed to 
 be under the pious belief that the rebellions 
 in Ireland were put down by the super- 
 human exertions of a certain regiment, I do not 
 mow recollect the name (cheers). 
 
 Major SAUNDERSON here made an observa- 
 tion which reached the gallery imperfectly. He 
 was understood to say that the Irish rebellions 
 Imd been suppressed by the Irish Protestants. 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE — I have not so read history 
 "Take the rebellion of 1641. That rebellion was 
 finally put down, and only put down, by Crom- 
 well, and whatever else he was, Cromwell was not 
 an Irish Protestant. The rebellion of 1688-9 was 
 put down not by the Protestants of the North, 
 but by the introduction mainly of foreign hosts. 
 
 THE REBELLION OF 1798, 
 
 to which, I think, the hon gentleman specially re- 
 ferred, was unquestionably put down, not by the 
 acuon of what is termed the loyal minority— 
 which, I do not say from its own fault, had not at 
 that period earned that name — but when the 
 Irish Government in Dublin was in despair it was 
 put down by them at last by inducing the British 
 Government in Loudon to send a large and ade- 
 quate force of British troops — I think 10,000 
 anen 
 
 Major SAUNDERSON— The Yeomanry (Con- 
 servative cheers, and laughter from the Irish 
 benches). 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE — The Yeomanry could not 
 <3o it (cheers). Well, we have more responsibility 
 fthan that. We used the whole civil government 
 of Ireland as an engine of wholesale cor- 
 ruption, and we extended that corrup- 
 tion to what should have been a sacred 
 thing— that is, to the Church, which we 
 maintained and supported in the land (cheers). 
 We did nothing then to appease, but everything 
 to irritate and exasperate the Irish people by the 
 whole of that policy. Then, again, in 1795, the 
 brightest period in the history of the Irish Parlia- 
 ments, when Lord Fitzwilliam was the Lord Lieu- 
 tenant, when through its sentiment of nationality 
 it was about to offer to Ireland what would give 
 to it the seed of evory promise, happiness, and 
 
 2 
 
 prosperity— first the Irish Parliament proposed 
 
 THE EMANCIPATION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS, 
 thus leading, as it would have done by itself, after 
 a long night of daikness, to Parliamentary re- 
 form and the admission of the people to political , 
 privileges — we took Loid Fitzwilliam away. The 
 Irish Parliament struggled against it, but Eng- 
 land would not let them. But, then, sir, we got 
 the Union. I have avoided that subject- I don’t 
 want to enter upon the details of it. They are 
 dreadful. Read the language of Lord Cornwallis 
 and you will find in it the regrets of an honour- 
 able mind at the transactions in which, owing to 
 a fatal necessity, he found himself engaged. I 
 will say thi/3, sir. We obtained 
 THE UNION 
 
 against the sense of every class of the people m 
 Ireland by wholesale bribery and by unblushing 
 intimidation. Then again, we come to the time 
 when we are more directly responsible through, 
 the’action of the British Parliament. We passed 
 in the year 1816 a measure by which the whole 
 of the conditions of the tenure of land 
 were changed, although the older system pro- 
 tected the tenant by a clear fixity of tenure. 
 The result of that change was to destroy the 
 dream of the tribal conditions and usages by 
 which the people held the land, for up to that 
 time tribal usages had prevailed. In the English 
 Parliament Mr. Leslie Foster, a first-rate autho- 
 rity, recommended the passage of the bill, and he 
 did so because, according to himself, he said as 
 the law at present stood the tenant was able to 
 set the landlord at defiance (Irish cheers). All 
 these protections were swept away. I do noti 
 enter upon the merits of that proceeding. All I 
 now say is that we did not attempt to reconcile 
 the Irish occupier to liis lot or root out agrarian 
 crime by that measure. Such was the measure 
 that was passed in 1816. There are some very 
 gloomy days to come. We come down to the. 
 year 1843, to the time of the Devon Commission 
 report — a Conservative report issued under the 
 auspices of a Conservative Ministry ; and I may 
 read one passage from that report, although I 
 could read many, It states — 
 
 A reference to the evidence of most of the witnesses, 
 will show that the agricultural labourer of Ireland 
 suffers the greatest privations and hardships, and that 
 he continues to depend upon casual and precarious em- 
 ployment for existence. But he is still badly housed, 
 badly fed, badly clothed, and badly paid for his labour. 
 Our personal exper'ence and observations during our 
 inquiry have afforded a melancholy confirmation of this 
 statement and we cannot forbear expressing our strong 
 sense of the patient endurance — 
 
 Now mind that ? The Devon Commission is most 
 of all struck by the patient endurance 
 with which the Irish tenant and the Irish occupier sub- 
 mit to Lis lot. 
 
 (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Here there was an interruption by Lord Ran- 
 dolph Churchill and Lord John Manners, who 
 made some remarks regarding the labourers. 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE — Yes. No doubt the great 
 bulk of these people — half the Irish population — 
 were dependent upon wages. Lest there should 
 be anything new in the objection, I shall bring 
 down on the next occasion a much stronger pas- 
 sage (laughter and cheers). The report goes on — 
 
 Wo cannot forbear expressing our strong sense of the 
 patient endurance which the labouring classes, that i», 
 the enormous majority of the Irish population have 
 generally exhibited, and our bvlief that the people of 
 Ireland have to suffer greater privations than any oilier 
 peoplo in Europe. 
 
 That, sir, is the description of the people given 
 by a Commission appointed by a party who u rUi* 
 
33 
 
 tained the Corn. Laws, justifying them on the which I am proposing— to inflict pecuniary risk 
 ground that they kept the people at a higher upon the people of England and Scotland, and I 
 level than the people of any other country think I have now reached a point at which I ought 
 (cheers). But the subject does not lie there, to explain to the house the scheme which we are 
 The question was not overlooked by statesmen about to submit (cheers). I shall have a great 
 like Sir Robert Peel and Lord Derby. The latter number of points to mention. I will therefore 
 nobleman introduced a bill intended to give mention them in a most summary manner, and I 
 effect to the recommendations of the committee, will beforehand endeavour to impress it upon h on 
 but that bill did not pass the House of Lords, members-— though I will do my best under the 
 who were always ready to accept legislative re- circumstances, which w'e know are difficult — that 
 commendations from the Tories, but a bill for the they will only understand this measure by in- 
 improvement of the condition of the labouring specting the bill itself. The act, sir, will 
 classes in Ireland was too much for them (laugh- 
 ter and loud Parnellite cheers). Sir J Napier 
 
 but 
 
 TAKE EFFECT ON THE SAME DAY WITH THE IRISH 
 GOVERNMENT ACT. 
 
 As we think it our duty to press for the passing 
 of this act with the Irish Government Act, so un- 
 Hls Lwuiuiiiuu, hmih doubtidly w« provide in the bill itself that it is 
 
 passed no doubt with a good intention not . p ^ 5 4 h jut the 1,-ish Government Act, 
 
 Secondly, the Legislative Body in Dublin may 
 '■ ""j apnomt a person or bodv to be what is called 
 
 sell the improvements of the tenants (loud ^ the kct the State authority. I shall have 
 
 again to refer to that phrase, because it occurs 
 again in various important provisions in the act. 
 
 also made an effort in the same direction, 
 that was also defeated. Then there was 
 THE INCUMBERED ESTATES BILL, 
 which was 
 
 (hear, hear), the good intention being to take 
 capital into Ireland, but what it really did was 
 
 to 
 
 Parnellite cheers), and besides losing their im- 
 provements the tenants lost their olcl landlords, 
 who were in many cases easy-going personages ip^ii-dly t ] iat 
 who had established a modus vivendi with their - * 
 
 tenants. In place of these old landlords we sent THE purchases under the act 
 
 in go Ireland a whole are to be made on a Three per Oenb Stock, issued on 
 
 horde OF new proprietors, the application probably of the Lind Commission 
 
 who went over there to exact from the tenant the to the Treasury, and under regulations to be made 
 produce of his labour (cheers). By that “ benefit” by the Treasury, ihis Three per Cent Stock will 
 the tenants’ improvements were taken away by a * n likelihood be what is termed the New Three 
 deplorable error. per Cents. The most obvious name which occurs 
 
 Lord R CHURCHILL— It was passed by your to everyone is the name of Consols, but the amount 
 p ar {- v of the New Three per Cents is 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE— I beg your pardon. The one hundred and eighty millions, 
 
 noble lord s information is always interesting, quite sufficient to ensure extensive dealings ; 
 tmt sometimes partial (cheers and laughter). I an( j it so happens that the mass of Irish dealings 
 would say that the act was suggested by Earl j n t he stocks are in the denomination of Three 
 Bussell. per Cents. I think the comparison I have heard 
 
 Lord R CHURCHILL It was passed by Earl i s oe tween five and six millions in Consols, against 
 Bussell (loud cries of Order’ ). twenty-five or twenty seven millions — I forget 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE — I am speaking of this which — for the New Three per Cents, and, there- 
 Louse (hear, hear). I have not a word to say fore, it is probable that that stock will be the 
 about the noble lord’s party or his principles — if most convenient for Irish holders. The stock is 
 I knew what they were (loud laughter and to be issued at par. It may suit the convenience 
 cheers). I was speaking of this house, and I of purchasers and of the Treasury to commute it 
 claim no exception for any great party in this into stock of a lower denomination, and it , 
 Louse. Many distinctions may be drawn in re- may be done with the consent of the Treasury, 
 ■pect of the land question at that period — I was If it so happens that under the necessary limita- 
 not aware that any distinction could be drawn of tious of the act stock can lot be issued to vendors 
 party (hear, hear). It is the fact that this was forthwith, scrip at the same rate of interest will 
 not the action of a party, but the action of Par- be given to them in anticipation. These are ge- 
 Lament. I ask this house whether after even neral, but still not unimportant provisions. Now 
 ■uch a summary — the recital I have made — it is I will describe in a very few words what I may 
 possible to deny that the landlords have been our term the substance and the purpose of the act. I 
 garrison or representatives, that wo have relied will avoid that trap into which it seems, I fell 
 wpon them as they have relied upon us, and that the other night about essentials and vitals, 
 we cannot wash our hands of the responsibility It is not difficult to say what are the priu- 
 for those things and the consequences of those cipal enactments — it is extremely difficult 
 things (hear, hear). Well, sir, we acknowledged to say, especially in the earlier stage of 
 our concern in the acts of the landlords in a the discussion, what is vital and what is 
 different way by the Acts of 1870 and 1881. Earl not (loud Opposition laughter). It is very diffi- 
 Russell, who was alive at the passing of the fiist cult indeed, and in consequence, I suppose, of its 
 •f these acts, was among its cordial supporters, being so difficult it is never done (Ministerial 
 But I won’t dwell on that subject ; it is beside laughter and cheers). I am not aware that I ever 
 my argument. Those acts modified most essen- heard a great measure introduced with a 
 tiallv the position of the landlord, and there lies thorough going attempt to separate its enact- 
 from different sources thiB point, namely, that in meats into two classes and to say one of them is 
 ■ay opinion Great Britain, within limits of reason, vital and you cannot touch it and the other is noli 
 cannot divest herself of this important question vital and you can do what you like. I will no* 
 ef the Irish land. Having proceeded so far, I have attempt that; but I think I shall use words wduch 
 ■till one important matter to argue, namely, this — shall give to hon members a sufficient idea of the 
 or at least to tell the house a statement of the sense and spirit of the measure and enable them 
 particulars — namely, whether a third of the to judge what are really it3 main provisions. Thff 
 questions which are put— the important inquiry object of this act is to give to 
 
 C 
 
04 
 
 ALL IRISH LANDOWNERS AN OPTION OF BEING 
 BOUGHT OUT 
 
 on the terms of the act — to give to all Irish land- 
 owners an opening towards the exercise of that 
 option. I will say later on how a portion may 
 exercise it under this particular act; but the policy 
 is — let it be distinctly understood— the policy of 
 giving this option to all Irish landowners, to all 
 Irish landowners as regards their rented land, and 
 those again with certain exceptions which I will 
 state. But I may describe them in one word. 
 Agricultural land is a general description — please 
 to take that for the present moment. I wish it to be 
 understood that the act has no concern whatever 
 with mansions, with demesnes, or with woods. I 
 for my part am in hopes that many a nobleman 
 and many a gentleman in Ireland wall long con- 
 tinue to inhabit his mansion (cheers) and his 
 demesne in 
 
 THE NEW AND HAPPIER STATE OF THINGS, 
 and that the cause which kept him at a 
 distance may possibly terminate in this, 
 which I think we should all desire. 
 I believe it to be possible, and that many of the 
 Irish Nationalists would desire that persons of 
 wealth and station should remain to give atten- 
 tion to public duties and for the exercise of their 
 influence, and that they may become in no small 
 degree effective and safe leaders of the people 
 (cheers). Sir. I wish it to be understood that the 
 spirit in which we have drawn this act is that of 
 making on this great occasion — the use or rejec- 
 tion of which evidently must have an important 
 Influence ou the future course of the question — 
 the spirit in which we have drawn it is that of 
 making the most liberal offers to the Irish land- 
 lords that we think our obligations even re- 
 quire, or even justify, or that we can expect the 
 representatives of the people to accept. I come 
 now one step nearer to my point, and I will en- 
 deavour to give a three-fold indication, which 
 may be useful in following the leading provisions 
 of the act. The groundwork of the act is 
 THE OPTION BY THE LANDLORD. 
 
 Upon that I will only say that we considered much 
 with regard to an option to tenants, and again 
 with regard to leaving in the act provisions more 
 or less like those of the present Land Purchase 
 Acts for contemplating voluntary arrangements ; 
 but we have uotseen our way to incorporate them 
 ■with this measure. The measure, as we have 
 found it our duty to pi-esent it, is founded upon 
 the landlord’s option to sell. The State autho- 
 rity, as I explained, is to be the middle term, in- 
 stead of the Treasury, between the vendor and 
 the peasant occupier. It is through this medium 
 that the transaction is to take place. I am speak- 
 ing now of the general rules ; and lastly, what we 
 propose is, that upon the sale 
 
 THE PEASANT IS TO BECOME THE PROPRIETOR. 
 He is not to be, in our view, as a general rule, the 
 occupier subject to rent-charge, or subject to bo 
 dealt with by anyone as the landlord till the ex- 
 piration of a certain term, when he is to become 
 the proprietor, but he is to become the pro- 
 prietor at once, excepting that he is to be subject 
 to a burden which I will now describe. Now, 
 sir, as to the nature of the transaction. The State 
 authority is to be the purchasing authority, but 
 there are exceptions. It has appeared that it might 
 not be well in all cases to force the very small 
 occupiers to become proprietors if for any 
 reason it did not suit their condition. At 
 any rate, we do not compel the tenant of £4 and 
 under to become the proprietor unless he wishes 
 it. There is another and most important ex- 
 
 ception. Everyone knows the great importance 
 in Ireland of what are called 
 
 CONGESTED DISTRICTS. 
 
 These congested districts we propose to deal with 
 in a manner which forms an exception to the 
 general rule. In the congested districts 
 we propose that the State authority 
 should be not merely the vehicle through which 
 the purchase is to be effected and carried onward 
 to the tenant, but in these congested districts 
 which we propose to schedule at a certain time in. 
 the bill the State authority we propose shall be 
 the proprietor. Undoubtedly we do not know an 
 authority which is competent to deal with these 
 exceptional circumstances in these cases so well 
 as the State authority in Ireland would be, and I 
 am bound to say we reserve for further considera- 
 tion the question whether in those districts only 
 there should be introduced the power of 
 COMPULSORY EXPROPRIATION 
 of the landlords — expropriation voluntary on 
 the landlords part being the general basis 
 of the bill. What are commonly known 
 as incumbrances, and what are commonly 
 known. I think, in Ireland as public burdens, in 
 which phrase, if I am rightly informed, rates are 
 not usually comprehended — what are commonly 
 known as public burdens and incumbrances 
 being fixed in their character, are to }be taken 
 over from the selling landlord and he is dis- 
 charged from then. 
 
 Mr. W H SMITH— Mortgages ? 
 
 Mr. GLADSTONE — They will be taken over as 
 a matter of arrangement, in the transaction. The 
 mortgages, of course, form a very easy portion of 
 the transaction. The more difficult part of the 
 transaction is the quit-rents, head-rents, 
 jointures, and other miscellaneous payments; 
 but we feel it necessary to disembarrass for 
 many reasons the State in the course of the 
 transaction of these, and likewise trom public 
 burdens such as the tithe commutation, because 
 otherwise we shall be in a difficulty if tithe com- 
 mutation had to be divided among small hold- 
 ings, which would be very inconvenient, if not 
 altogether impracticable. The State authority 
 will take over incumbrances of this character. I 
 do not now speak of incumbrances in capital sums, 
 but I am generally speaking of incumbrances 
 in the form of annual charges— the State 
 will take over these public burdens with the op- 
 tion eithei to continue to pay them or else to re- 
 deem them upon terms which are stated in the 
 bill. I will not attempt to enter into them, be- 
 cause it will lead me into details- This I wish to 
 state is rather an important provision. No one, 
 as a general rule, will have the option of sale ex- 
 cept the immediate landlord, our object being a 
 political and a social object; and we being at the 
 heart and root of the difficulty itself, to him we 
 must give this option in order to bring about a 
 relief from the dilemma (hear, hear). But his in- 
 cumbrances will not carry the option of foreclos- 
 ing. There are certain conditions into which T 
 need not at the moment enter — it would only 
 complicate the matter — but there are certain ca«en 
 where the interest of the immediate landlord if/ 
 extremely small, principally the interest is in the 
 superior one, but this I will not now attempt to 
 explain — I only mention it. So much then f<v.’ 
 the nature, the general nature, of the transaction 
 contemplated. Now as to the application to be 
 made. The first condition is that this application 
 must be as a general rule for 
 
 THE WHOLE OF THE TENANTED ESTATE. 
 
 This is a sound general rule. I can conceive no 
 
thing more grossly unjust to the landlord than to 
 tear his estate into rags by an arbitrary division, 
 and therefore the rule will be that the integral 
 estate shall form the subject of application, and 
 the Land Court or the Land Commission — what- 
 ever I may happen to call it, it is the same thing — 
 must determine what is one estate. But there 
 are two exceptions to which I ought briefly to 
 refer — one is the case of 
 
 GRAZINGS. 
 
 Grazings appear to stand in a condition very dif 
 ferent from most agricultural property (hear 
 hear). I leave it open to either party to 
 apply the definition of agricultural hold- 
 ings as created in the Act of 1881, and 
 to exclude their grazings from the transaction. The 
 other point is that it is impossible to say what 
 sort of villages ought and what ought not to be 
 included in the act. In a case where a village is 
 purely subservient to the agricultural purposes of 
 the estate I think it ought to be included in the 
 expropriation, but in many cases it may be these 
 villages have other shades of character, or are 
 even essentially different. To these cases we 
 also attach an exception, and leave a determina- 
 tion tc the Land Commission. The next propo- 
 sition I have to mention is this, that 
 TOWN LANDS 
 
 generally will not be included in the act (cries of 
 town parks”) — town parks, that is what 1 
 should call them. So far as one can 
 
 judge they do not belong to the same 
 category, and will not be included. All 
 
 applications received are to be registered, and all 
 applications are to rank according: to priority. 
 The person making an application must give se- 
 curity to pay the costs of the application if it 
 be not completed into a binding transaction. In 
 certain cases the Land Commission is to be en- 
 trusted with power to refuse to entertain appli- 
 cations. Now, sir, I am speaking to gentlemen 
 many of whom are much better acquainted, much 
 more minutely acquainted than 1 am, with the 
 agricultural circumstances of Ireland, but I believe 
 1 am right in saying that there are certain classes 
 of estates in Ireland — I will not go the length of 
 the statement of Sir James Caird on a recent 
 occasion — but there is a certain class of estates 
 with regard to which the real substantial natural 
 value from circumstances is so depressed that it 
 would be impossible to put the scale of years in 
 the act that would really reach them. I mean we 
 should have to go so low that it must introduce 
 the greatest uncertainty as to the general charac- 
 ter of the transaction. We think the best thing 
 to do is to empower the commission to refuse to 
 entertain applications in these exceptional cases. 
 Now, sir, I come still nearer the central point. 
 The basis on which we have to compute 
 THE PRICE TO BE PAID 
 
 to the outgoing landlord is twofold. First of all 
 it must be taken on the rental of a certain time, 
 subject to certain conditions; and secondly, it 
 must be taken on a certain number of years’ pur- 
 chase upon that rental. Our basis is to be the net 
 rental, and the net rental is to be ascertained 
 by deducting the rates and outgoings. I have 
 spoken already of public burdens and fixed 
 incumbrances, and they will be included in the 
 transaction. But before coming to the transaction 
 the net rental is to be ascertained by deducting 
 the rates and deducting the outgoings. In the 
 outgoings I include law charges, bad debts, man- 
 agement. and these are the great heads and these 
 are the main heads where arrangements have 
 been made either for the suppAy by the landlords; 
 
 of slates and other materials, but these I need 
 not refer to in particular’. The principle is that 
 the deduction is to be made on all outgoings and 
 all rates before we come to the rental, which is tc 
 be the basis of the transaction, but the rental 
 ought to have reference to a certain time — that 
 time must of course be a recent time. We can’t 
 go back very far, and we have thought it most 
 equitable to take a year the selection of which 
 would give no encouragement to any artificial ac- 
 tion or agitation, with a view of illegitimately in- 
 fluencing the standard of rent. The general idea 
 therefore, will be that it would be the rental due 
 the year ending in November, 1885. Where there 
 is a judicial rent it will be taken as the standard of 
 gross rent ; where there is no judicial rent we 
 are in greater difficulty, and we introduce a pro- 
 vision which enables the Land Court, if it shall 
 see cause, to take a given district of Ireland, pro- 
 bably an electoral division, to take the judicial 
 rents within that division, to take Griffith’s 
 valuation within the division, to take the relation 
 between the judicial rents and Griffith’s valua- 
 tion for the particular division, and to use that 
 relation, so far as it should be found to be politic, 
 as a guide in determining what should be the 
 standard rental that is to be the basis of the tran- 
 saction. We have also provided, in order to get 
 over the difficulties connected with the great 
 fluctuations in prices, that the Land Court shall 
 EXAMINE THE BOOKS OF THE ESTATE. 
 
 That may sound to some gentlemen not much 
 conversant with Irish transactions a cumbrous 
 arrangement, but we have extremely able public 
 servants in Iielaud, conversant in transactions 
 affecting land, and we are assured by them, without 
 the least doubter hesitation; that the examination 
 of books will not only be practicable, but the best 
 and by far the most practicable and simple method 
 of getting at the important subject of the amount 
 of the deduction. The books are to be examined 
 over a considerable time to meet the difficulty 
 arising: from agricultural fluctuations, and we pro- 
 pose to fix the time at 10 years. So much with, 
 regard to the rent. Now as to the years’ pur- 
 chase we propose that the normal rate, if I may 
 so call it, that is, the rent winch we conceive would 
 be applicable on a fairly well-conditioned estate m 
 Ireland, setting apart exceptional cases, both 
 those of extremely good and valuable estates, and 
 I am afraid tlie more numerous class that fall be- 
 low the average standard, the normal period 
 would be 
 
 TWENTY YE AR'ir 'URCHASE ON THE RENTAL 
 I have just described (murmurs). I want now to 
 add some further particulars by way of explana- 
 tion. An addition may be made to the sum on 
 which the charge may be founded, in the case of 
 arerars coming due after November, 1885, when 
 it is shown to the satisfaction of the Land Com- 
 mission that every attempt has been made to col- 
 lect them, and when it lias not been found practi- 
 cable. An addition may be made in the case of 
 exceptionally good estates to the period of 20 
 years, which is, however, to be limited to 
 A MAXIMUM OF TWENTY-TWO YEARS. 
 
 It is still more necessary that there should be 
 power to direct a decrease from the 20 years in 
 the case of estates whose condition is below th» 
 average ; and it is not possible to attach a 
 fixed limit to this decrease, because if 
 we were to give a fixed limit we 
 must found ii ,i th:, farthest case to which 
 it should go, and that . ould, imply so consider- 
 able a deduction ti -. . I think it would - shake con- 
 fiden- ' ‘ 1 - ' 
 
impression as to the general aim and object of the 
 bill, which is a normal period of twenty years. 
 The period would have by no means exclu- 
 sive reference, but somewhat special reference, 
 to small holdings. In a considerable ma 
 jority of cases, after making deductions, 
 estates divided into small holdings are less 
 valuable than estates divided into holdings not so 
 »mall. But if we attempted to meet that by 
 naming a more limited number of years for hold- 
 ings under a certain size, that would not do in all 
 cases, because there are estates, particularly in 
 Ulster, made up nearly entirely of small holdings, 
 which are extremely good. For that reason, we 
 leave thi3 power of distinction to the Land Com- 
 mission. I think, sir, that is the end of the 
 general provision of the .act which I ought to 
 mention, with the important exception of the 
 mode in which we are to 
 
 FIND THE MONEY 
 
 {a laugh). That is an important consideration. I 
 come then, sir, to the third question which I have 
 frankly stated to the house. The house is en- 
 titled to ask me and the Government — “ Do you 
 dntend under this bill that the country is 
 to undertake a great liability ? You confess that 
 you are going to make use of public credit ? Do 
 you intend under this bill that the country is to 
 undertake a real pecuniary risk, and that Parlia- 
 ment is to be requ es t e cl to compromise its duties 
 as guardian of the public treasure and of the 
 public purse ?” The measure is twofold. Iu the 
 first place, in my opinion, the introduction of the 
 plan founded on the basis I now propose of in- 
 troducing or building up the responsibility of an 
 Irish State authority will not increase, but greatly 
 ■diminish the public risk, the risk which is inse- 
 parable from the condition of the Treasury when 
 it takes upon itself to become the creditor of 
 hundreds of thousands of tenants in Ireland, and 
 you cannot have extensive plans in Ireland without 
 you attemptto deal with hundreds of thousands of 
 tenants. This bill will not, in consequence of that 
 fact, be an increase, but a diminution, of that 
 risk. Sir, I d >n’t hesitate to say at the end of a 
 very long public life, a very great deal of which 
 has been devoted to the guardianship on a sound 
 haaia of the public treasury. I could not think of 
 submitting to Parliament an opposite principle, 
 and I invite the most jealous scrutiny into our 
 plan for obtaining what I call absolute security. 
 "What we are going to do is twofold — our plan is 
 not to issue a loan, but to 
 
 ISSUE STOCK, 
 
 and, in doing this we have two things to con- 
 aider — first the security for the repayment of the 
 money, and the other is the effect this issue 
 will have upon the general condition of public 
 security. I not only do not deprecate but I in- 
 vite examination in relation to both matters 
 (hear, hear). The proposals we made, sir, are 
 these : We assume (of course one of ourgreat diffi- 
 culties in this matter is to determine beforehand 
 ■whether the proposal will be accepted universally, 
 largely, or at all), we are obliged to make the 
 best calculations or conjectures dial, we can; and 
 one thing we feel is necessary, that we may 
 be prepared to receive notices on a 
 large scale, and that proposition we ac- 
 cept. The notices that come in will be limited 
 to a certain time, but cannot remain subject to a 
 perpetual recurrence lying over out of the ordi- 
 nary road. The act we propose prescribes strictly 
 the notice to be given, and the issue of public 
 stock to meet them in pursuance of these liotioes. 
 In respect to the notices which may be given iu 
 
 36 
 
 1887-8, we propose to authorise the issue of tv 
 maximum of 
 
 TEN MILLIONS OF STOCK 
 
 in respect of the notices received in respect of 
 1887-8. We assume that the notices of that year 
 may be very abundant if the act works well, but 
 the transactions included in the year need not ne- 
 cessarily be so abundant. Therefore we authorise 
 the issue after notice of £10,000,000, and after 
 notice in 1888-9, or before 1888-9, we propose to 
 authorise the issue of 
 
 £20,000,000; 
 
 and for notices given in 1889-90, or before 1889* 
 90, we authorise the issue of 
 
 A FURTHER £*0,000,000, 
 
 which gives a total of stock issuable at par, under 
 the act, amounting in the gross to £50,000,000 if 
 it should be all called for. The operation of th® 
 act, it will be sem, is limited in time, for no 
 notices can be given under the act after the 31st 
 March, 1890. The house will understand, with 
 reference to what I hear described as a second risk, 
 that it would not do to issue stock without care- 
 fully ascertaining whether the amount we pro- 
 pose to issue in twelve mouths should be issued, 
 at a general price of public securities. It is con- 
 sidered of great importance that we should main- 
 tain a very high level of price — -the level which, 
 setting aside the peculiar combination of circum- 
 stances at which our securities have been for a 
 long time past (hear, hear). I ask, then, is 
 £20,000,000 an amount which we may venture to 
 issue, and yet maintain our prices ? That is a 
 question which 30 or 40 years ago it would not 
 have been easy to answer iu the affirmative. If 
 we wanted to issue stock the Chancellor of the 
 Exchequer had to go to the Bank of England or 
 to the city, hat in hand, but now, on our own 
 hook (laughter), we are in a position by means of 
 the acts referring to Exchequer deposits and bank, 
 deposits to exercise so large a power of purchas- 
 ing in the stock market as effectually to counteract 
 any baneful influences which might otherwise exist. 
 I give that calculation to the house with considei- 
 able confidence after having made it the subject 
 of careful inquiry among those who have the 
 largest experience and the greatest faculty for de- 
 termining what is the point to which we may 
 say we shall go. I am evidently open to an im 
 portant observation. I have said that our policy 
 embraces iu its final scope, if they desire to avail 
 themselves of the opportunity, 
 
 ALL IRISH LANDLORDS. 
 
 I am bound to express my hope — not on pecuniary 
 so much as on moral and social grounds — I expres* 
 my hope that many Irish landlords are in a posi- 
 tion in which they need not dream of availing 
 themselves of it. It is evident that what is now 
 the value of Irish property — if we go to its total 
 value— would certainly exceed to a very 
 considerable extent — not £50,000,000 but 
 £100,000,009 (hear. hear). I may say not only 
 much exceed but very considerably exceed it. If 
 we take the fraction of those who under no cir- 
 cumstances are likely to exercise the option it 
 is obvious that a transaction of that kind 
 would not be carried through by th® 
 new issue of £50,000,000 (hear, hear). 
 Sir, when we commenced drawing the rudimen- 
 tary sketch of this plan, the dominant idea in 
 our minds entirely was of redeeming fully th®* 
 constructive promise that we made to the Irish 
 landlords. Therefore I certainly thought at th® 
 first moment of putting in the bill a larger figure, 
 and the sum which on computation l found must 
 be provided was not £50,000,000 but aa much a®. 
 
£1 -30,000,000. That was the computation on 
 which I founded the figures which I first brought 
 before my colleague*. The -e were two of those 
 colleagues in particular who had a jealousy of 
 charging the public for Iris > land, or charging it 
 to a great extent. Those were my right hon 
 friend the member for the Border Burghs and 
 my right lion friend the member for West Bir- 
 mingham. To their objection I certainly feel in- 
 debted for what I take is a great improvement on 
 the bill (cheers and laughter), because although 
 there is no change whatever in the policy <>f the 
 Government, I certainly have to thank them for 
 having set me to consider more carefully how are 
 the relations between an Executive asking for 
 advances over long periods and a Parliament 
 charged with the responsibility maintaining the 
 jp tblic Treasury. I am not ashamed of saying 
 Lnat this plan is not a plan that springs upon us 
 at a moment’s notice. I have told the house 
 of the ex'raordinarily unprecedented difficulties 
 U"der which it has been framed (hear, hear). 
 Amidst the pressure of Parliaments ’y business 
 from day to day, I am glad to own the assistance 
 which has been given — It is very pleasant to make 
 bit known to my colleagues as regards this question 
 — I had the means of bridging over considerably 
 • such differences as might subsist between us. 
 That matter never came, strictly speaking, to 
 issue between us. Now, sir, as hon gentlemen 
 ■may think that 1 have no real or substantial rea- 
 son for making this reduction except what might 
 be called meeting a popular outcry (loud cties of 
 u Hear, hear.” while Lord It Churchill made an 
 •observation which did not reach the gallery) — 
 yes, quite the reverse, unquestionably it was our 
 <lutv to do so if it was the only matter — it was 
 our duty to do so. But, sir, we lmd many other 
 things to consider, and I must say, upon consi- 
 deration. quite apart from the difficulty of the 
 probability of the acceptance of the proposals in 
 the bill, I arrived at the deliberate conviction 
 that it would have been a great error on our part 
 to ask at this moment for a sum founded upon 
 -anything like an outside estimate of the proba- 
 bilities of the case. I thought we ought to ask 
 from Parliament what we thought would ensure 
 the efficient progress of the measure if it became 
 an operative measure, but ought to reserve to 
 Parliament an opportunity of exercising its dis- 
 cretion afresh (Opposition laughter). Gentlemen 
 -don’t understand. 1 must beg you to be very 
 patient in this matter. You must have seen that. 
 <so far as we are concerned, there are some things 
 which I have said that may be considered to be in 
 the nature of pledges of good faith hh between us 
 and the landlords — to make this offer, to make it in 
 -an efficient shape, and to make it with the inten- 
 tion, so far as we are concerned, to follow it up if 
 necessary, I conceived to be a matter of honour and 
 good faith. But therearea m altitude ofother con- 
 ditions affecting this Irish authority, conditions 
 affecting 
 
 THK FUTURE IRISH HOUSE, 
 
 -conditions affect ing the Irish tenant, and condi- 
 tions affecting the money market, and the nature 
 of these fssues, which are not matters of good 
 faith even for us or are more or less, not matters 
 of good faith but are generally or universally 
 matters or policy and expediency — I can con- 
 ceive it is quite right in an arrangement 
 ■of this kml, that we should secure 
 •an opportunity of exercising our judgment 
 •fresh on the subject we now submit to Parlia- 
 ment. So tar as good faith is concerned, what I 
 Ain quite certain of is this — that if Parliament 
 
 U 
 
 accedes to and accepts this particular bill, if ifc 
 finds that the promises under which we commend 
 the bill are fulfilled., if it finds that public credit is 
 duly maintained, if it finds that repayments 
 are duly made, if it finds that the whole complex, 
 machinery is so well oiled that it works like a 
 locomotive, if they find that the public credit ig> 
 safe, its we assure them it will be — in my opinion 
 Parliament will never underestimate the moral 
 obligation that, may be comprehended in th® 
 settlement. Therefore, sir, this proposal is mad® 
 subject to the declaration I have made, and I 
 have not scrupled to declare it is made in a man- 
 ner so far experimental that *ffie discretion of 
 Parliament on its -particulars will be reserved. 
 
 If you ask me precisely in what farm, I remind you 
 of the provision I have already recited — namely, 
 that no issue can take place under the bill in re- 
 spect of any notice except those lodged before 31sfc 
 Marc!), 1890, and no issue beyond the pecuniary 
 limit I have named. Well, then, sir, you will ask 
 me — I have not vet told you the whole of my 
 case — you will ask me 
 
 HOW THESE PAYMENTS ARE TO BE SECURED ? 
 (Hear, hear.) They are to lie secured in a man- 
 ner which I commend to Parliament as simple, as 
 effective, and ;es warranted by the circumstances 
 of the case. It is proposed that there should be 
 appoihted a 
 
 RECEIVER-GENERAL UNDER BRITISH AUTHORITY, 
 who shall not levy rents or other revenues in Ire- 
 land, but through whose hands all rents, all Irish 
 revenues whatsoever, must pass before a shilling of 
 that kind can be applied to any Irish purpose 
 whatever. Then again it is necessary for the Irish 
 Authority to have funds (dissent and interrup- 
 tion) I hope you will not prejudge me — I think 
 I shall make my meaning and purpose clear. Ifc 
 is necessary for the Irish authority, if it is to go- 
 vern Ireland, to have funds for the purpose of 
 government (hear, hear). Under the plan we 
 propose, I believe, and with the economies I have 
 not the least doubt they will make, I believe their 
 funds will be ample and abundant, but what we 
 propose is that those funds shall be subject to the 
 discharge of prior obligations, and that the riglrfc 
 of the Irish authority to the money shall begin at 
 the point when the prior obligations end (hear) 
 hear). For that purpose we are not going to 
 take the levying of rents and revenues, except 
 under a limited arrangement as to Cus- 
 toms ami certain Excise duties, out of 
 Irish hands. It would be the very last 
 thine I should desire — the thing of all others that 
 would be most opposed to the put poses and 
 policy of the whole act. But we are going to 
 require that the m >ney, after it has been levied, 
 shall all converge and run into a certain chanuel, 
 and have but one chord as between the body and 
 the head — the head being the Irish Government— 
 all the money must p iss through the channel of 
 the neck, and the neck is the Receiver-General 
 (laughter). The Receiver-General may find it 
 necessary to appoint two deputies, but he will 
 have nothing to do with the taxpayer, except 
 with the tax raised, and those who are receivers 
 and collectors under it. He will be under audit, 
 be will be liable to prosecution by the State 
 authority, he will have sub-authority over th® 
 sub -receiver, and he will never annoy tiie tax 
 paver nor come near him, and I believe he 
 will never be heard of, and l believe he 
 will live behind the curtain all through (laughter). 
 He will not be appointed the collector of th® 
 taxes. That is a function we do not wish to se® 
 in his hands. He will have the power of bring- 
 
38 
 
 tng notions against the stib-receivers in the Court 
 of Exchequer — that explains the provisions I have 
 already mentioned to the house on a former 
 occasion — which court will be supported in its 
 judgments by the public force, and its proceed- 
 ings will extend to everything levied in Ireland 
 for the central purposes of the Government, and 
 over rents, customs, and excise, and all public 
 revenues whatever. The question of 
 PUBLIC CHKDTT 
 
 is of interest to the Nationalists, because Ireland 
 will, undoubtedly, have to organise a credit of 
 her own— of that there cannot be a doubt — for 
 public purposes will require, though I hope not 
 to excess, but she will want to organise her own 
 credit, and she never can organise a credit of her 
 own to be worked economically and safely except- 
 ing she has solid ground under her feet; and this 
 cannot be the case unless the security for all her 
 prior engagementsisabsolutely guaranteed. 1 sub- 
 mit this is absolute and unimpeachable, and this will 
 be a3 safe under the provisions I propose as the col- 
 lection of taxes in England in the ordinary wav. 
 It will not take me long to exhibit with, some 
 exactitude the position of the four parties inte- 
 rested in a pecuniary sense in this plan — that, is 
 to say, the Irish landlord, the Irish tenant, the 
 Irish State authority, and the British Exchequer . 
 The case which 1 take of an Irish landlord, for the 
 sake of simplicity, is the case of an Irish landlord 
 who 'has no public burdens and no incumbrances 
 (laughter). As I have said, they will be reckoned 
 into the price awarded, and will form effective 
 deductions from that juice at rates specified in 
 the bill. Therefore I should get into great eonfu 
 sion, arid I should greatly contuse the house, if I 
 took cases of that kind. Therefore I take the 
 case of the Irish landlord who is so happy as to 
 liave no rates to pay. I take 
 
 TIIB INSTANCE OK A GROSS RENTAL OF £1,200 
 A YEAR. 
 
 What would be the deductions ? Of course, I 
 can only conjecture and calculate upon general 
 information about rents, and from the best infor- 
 mation we can obtain about particular estates ; 
 but I must observe that the circumststances 
 of particular estates vary so enormously 
 with regard to outgoings not only of 
 incumbrances, that while the figure will 
 be much too high in some cases, it will be 
 much too low in others. I am obliged to take 
 the average figure, which is 20 per cent. There- 
 fore in a gro.^s rental of £1,200 it will be reduced 
 by deducting £240, reducing it to £960, and the 
 vormal rate of compensation at 20 years will be 
 £19,200. Now, what will be tbe condition of the 
 tenant. The tenant now pays £1,200. The 
 maximum of what lie would have to pay in his 
 first stage on the passing and completion of the 
 transaction will be £9ti0. that is to say, it will be 
 four per cent upon 20 years’ pun base, not of the 
 sum tbe landlord receives, but of the gross rental 
 which he has hitherto paid. That is a maximum 
 payment, for, as I shall bIiow you, there is a fund 
 out of which, if it should seem right to the State 
 authority, some further favourable arrangement 
 might be made. On receiving these reductions he 
 will be subject to half rates, because 
 HR BECOMES AN OWNER. 
 
 He will be in the eye of the law owner as a gene- 
 ral rule from the time the transaction is com- 
 pleted. This four per cent rent charge will con- 
 tinue for forty-nine years. The legal ownership 
 which is retained for that peiiod will become at 
 the end of forty-nine years perfectly free without 
 any annual payment unless a tax is laid on the 
 
 land by the Legislature. And now as to 
 
 THE POSITION OF THE STATE AUTHORITY 
 
 It will receive from tbe tenant £960. What will 
 the State authority have to pay to the Imperial 
 Exchequer ? It will liave to pay four per cent 
 also, not, however, on the gross rental but on the 
 net rental. Four per cent on the net rental of 
 £960 will be £758, and the collection 
 of the net rental, a matter upon which 
 the Treasury have large experience, we can confi- 
 dently estimate at a very low rate, 2 per cent — 
 that is to say, £19 4s. The State authority will 
 therefore receive £960 ; the total charge to him 
 will be £787 4s. That leaves him a balance of 
 £172 16s, or nearly 18 per cent. What is the 
 State authority to do with this £172 16s? On 
 the one hand it may be enlarged, because it will 
 be larger in those cases where competition will be 
 below twenty years’ — therefore it will be larger if 
 tbe average is below twenty years. But then it 
 will be subject to certain deductions — some de- 
 duction on account of tbe cost of conveyancing. 
 We have thought it Unfair under the bill to leave 
 the landlord open to unknown charges to prove 
 his title, and have fixed a moderate and low 
 maximum charge as a cost of conveyancing; but 
 the State authority will be liable to a somewhat 
 heavier charge, and it will also be liable to 
 charges in respect to redeeming quit rents, htad 
 rents, tithe commutations, and jointures, which 
 cannot always be kept within the limit of twenty 
 years — they can sometimes, but not always. On 
 the whole, I have no reason to believe 
 that these considerations will cause any great, 
 interference with the balance which I have shown 
 should be free for the State authority, 18 per cent. 
 We liave proceeded on the principle that the State 
 authority may in certain cases find it necessary 
 or think it expedient to grant out of the con- 
 siderable sum somewhat further remissions to the 
 tenant. We have proceeded upon this principle, 
 that we are not acting simply for the interest of 
 the Irish tenants, we are acting for the interest 
 of the Irish labourer, 
 
 FOR THE INTEREST OF THE IRISH COMMUNITY, 
 and it is our duty, if Great Britain is to make an 
 effort by the use of her credit, to leave some fair 
 portion of the resulting profit to be applied 
 for the advantage or Ireland at large-, 
 subject to the distribution, and according to the 
 directions, of the Irish authorities (hear, hear). J. 
 may say that in case the whole of these trail sac- 
 ti one should go forward the total sum to be sub- 
 ject to the discretion of the Irish authority would, 
 be not much less than £400,000 a year. Well, 
 now, sir, a few words with respect to 
 THE PRESENT POSITION OK THE IRISH EXCHEQUER, 
 and that is the last point 1 have to trouble tbe 
 house with. It it well that — I beg pardon, I 
 must fifsfc of all say that the Irish Exchequer re- 
 ceives a maximum of £20,000,000, the interest at 
 four per cent will be £2,000,000, and that will be 
 cash which the Exchequer will liave to receive 
 every year from the Irish authorities through the 
 lieceiver -General, that reliable personage to 
 whom I have already referred. How is this 
 £2,000,000 secured ? If these transactions take 
 place the land rents which the Irish authorities 
 will levy will be net rents, £2,500,000, and I have 
 the best possible securities for its vigilance in 
 levying thorn, first of all in the sense 
 of right, secondly in the sense of 
 
 prudence, ami thirdly in the sense 
 
 of necessity, inasmuch as until the prior charge 
 is paid it cannot touch anything (a laugh). The 
 sum will be secured in the lirst place on this 
 
30 
 
 £2,500,0* but it will be secured also upon the collection thereof £4.840,000 — the apparent re?i- 
 
 b&lance of all the Irish revenue- It will bo the 
 first charge upou the Irish land rents and the 
 taxes, which I have assumed at a certain figure, 
 to be levied under the Irish authority, amount- 
 ing altogether to £5,778,000- You may say to 
 me, “ There is also the Imperial contribution to 
 be taken into view.’’ Yes, sir, there is, and there 
 is also a large further fund to be taken into view 
 — namely, 
 
 THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE. 
 
 If I add the Imperial contribution and the charge 
 for the constabulary to the £2,000.000 which I 
 have now spoken of in respect to the land , the 
 sum comes out thus — We want to get £6,242,000, 
 and that is secured upon £10,859,000, no portion 
 of which can be applied for any purpose until 
 the whole ot our £6,242,000 has been remitted. 
 That will secure the British credit, and is the 
 only firm foundation for Irish credit also. There 
 is one circumstance which should be called to the 
 attention of the house, and it is the last on which 
 I shall have to dwell. Some have an idea that 
 under the arrangements of our present policy we 
 receive from Ireland, if not all we could desire, yet 
 enough to replenish very materially our Im- 
 perial resources. That i3 
 
 A WOEFUL DELUSION. 
 
 We do nothing of the kind, and I must show that 
 this is not so. I do not say that Ireland 
 
 does not pay enough, but I will 
 
 say that we receive very little, and I am 
 bound to add, with the views I have for the un- 
 wisdom of our past policy 1 do not think we de- 
 serve to receive more (cheers). The contribution of 
 the Irish taxpayer, is £6.980,000, out of which 
 we pay back in the Irish Civil Service and the 
 
 due seems to represent the Imperial contribution 
 for the Anny, forth© Navy for the National Debt, 
 and for Imperial civil charges — an apparent con- 
 tribution of £2.000,000. Having got that sum, 
 what do we do ? Why we send an army to Ire- 
 land of 26,000 men whom we have not the power 
 to relieve — that costs three millions of money, 
 and thus, without any provision for debt or for 
 the navy, absorbs £915,000 more than the ba- 
 lance which, as I have just said, we appear to 
 receive from Ireland. That is economy indeed. 
 This is a system which we want to 
 ROOT UP 
 
 from out the land. I might make some further 
 addition, but I have detained the house already 
 too long. 1 will detain you no longer than simply 
 to commend to you with the utmost earnestness 
 this bill as the complement of our policy, under 
 the serious and earnest conviction that it 
 is recommended both by honour, duty, 
 and expediency — to commend it to your 
 strict and zealous duty, and at the same 
 time to your careful and your unbiassed examina- 
 tion, convinced as I am that when that examina- 
 tion has been given it will be recognised as a fitting 
 part of our proceedings upon 
 
 THIS CERTAINLY GREAT AND AUSPICIOUS OCCASION, 
 and as fitting, I won’t say to adorn, but to accredit 
 and sustain the plans of the British Legislature 
 for the welfare of what is, has long been, and, I 
 hope, ever will be under circumstances far happier 
 than heretofore — an integral portion of her Ma- 
 jesty’s dominions. The right hon gentlemap re- 
 sumed his seat amidst loud cheers from the 
 Ministerial benches. 
 
LAND PURCHASE BILL 
 
 Be it enacted by the Queen’s Most Excellent 
 Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of 
 the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, 
 in this present Parliament assembled, and by the 
 authority of the same, as follows : 
 
 I. — This act may be cited as the Land(Ireland) 
 Act, 1886. 
 
 PART I. 
 
 SALES OF ESTATES. 
 
 II — (1.) On and after the appointed day, and 
 within the time limited by this act, the imme- 
 diate landlord of any tenanted estate in Ire- 
 land to which this act applies may apply to 
 the State authority to buy such tenanted 
 estate at the statutory price, and the State 
 authority shall cause his application to be 
 registered, and the applications so made shall 
 be dealt with according to priority of time. 
 
 (2.) In the event of the purchase of the estate 
 from thelandlord being completed, the tenants 
 of the several holdings of which such estate 
 consists shall, except as in this act mentioned, 
 become, as soon as may be in manner in this 
 act mentioned; the owners in fee simple of 
 their holding for such consideration as is in 
 this act mentioned ; and where the tenants do 
 not become the owners of their holding under 
 this act, the State authority shall become the 
 owner thereof. and dispose of the same in such 
 manner as the State authority may think lit. 
 
 III. — (1.) The statutory price of an estate shall 
 be measured by the amount of the net rent of 
 the estate. 
 
 (2.) The net rent of an estate equals 
 the gross rent of the estate after deducting 
 from that rent the tithe rent-charge, 
 if any payable, to the Land Commission, and 
 the average percentage for expenses in respect 
 of bad debts, rates, ore ;ss allowed or paid 
 by the landlord, management, repairs, and 
 other like outgoings, if any. 
 
 (3.) Tithe rent- charge shall be ascertained by the 
 books of the Land Com mission, and the average 
 percentage for such expenses as aforesaid shall 
 be ascertained in the case of each estate by 
 taking the average percentage on the rent 
 for the time being of such estate to which 
 such expenses have amounted during each of 
 the ten years immediately preceding the last 
 gale day in the year one thousand eight 
 hundred and eighty five, sis ascertained by in- 
 spection of the rent rolls and books of the 
 estate, and by other evidence if necessary. 
 
 IV. — (1.) The amount of the statutory price of 
 an estate shall, except as in this act men- 
 tioned, be equal to twenty times the net rent 
 of the estate, ascertained as aforesaid, and 
 such price shall, subject to such option on 
 the part of the person entitled to receive the 
 same, of taking other annuities or debentures 
 as is in this act mentioned be paid by three 
 per cent perpetual annuities, issued under 
 this act at par. 
 
 (2.) There shall be added to the statutory price 
 of an estate a sum equal to the amount of 
 any such arrears of rent coming due after 
 the last gale day in the year one thousand 
 eight hundred and eighty-five, and before 
 the date of purchase, as the Land Commis- 
 sion may certify that the landlord has duly 
 endeavoured, but has been unable to collect, 
 
 and such sum shall, subject to the said op- 
 tion, be paid in permanent annuities to th© 
 person entitled to such arrears of rent. 
 
 V. — The consideration payable by a tenant for 
 his acquisition of the fee-simple of his holding 1 
 shall be the payment to the State authority of a 
 capital sum equal to twenty times the amount of 
 the gross rent of the holding, and such sum may 
 either be paid down in whole or in part, or may 
 be paid by an annuity during a period of forty-nine 
 years, equal to 4 per centum per annum on such 
 capital 6um, or so much thereof as is not so paid 
 down, but such annuity may be at any time 
 redeemed, as in this act mentioned, provided that 
 where the landlord is legally liable to pay for any 
 repairs, or pays any county cess, or the whole of 
 the poor-rate in respect of a holding, the average 
 annual amount of such repairs and county cess 
 and half the average annual amount of such poor- 
 rate during the ten years next preceding the last 
 gale day in the year one thousand eight hundred 
 and eighty-five shall be deducted from the gross 
 rent of the holding, calculating the considera- 
 tion payable by a tenant in pursuance of this 
 section. 
 
 PROCEDURE ON THE SALE OF AN ESTATE. 
 
 VI. — (1.) The application by an immediate 
 landlord desirous of selling his estate to the 
 State authority shall be made in the pre- 
 scribed manner to that authority, w r ho shall 
 forthwith refer the application to the Land 
 Commission. 
 
 (2.) The Land Commission, on the applicant 
 giving the prescribed security for costs, shall 
 satisfy themselves as to his being authorised 
 to make such application according to this act* 
 (3.) The Land Commission, if satisfied that the 
 applicant is authorised to make the applica- 
 tion, shall fix the price of the estate. 
 
 (4.) Where the landlord and State authority 
 have agreed on the price, the Land Commis- 
 sion shall fix that price as the price of the 
 estate if satisfied that it does not exceed the 
 statutory price. 
 
 (5.) In the absence of such agreement the Land 
 Commission shall ascertain the statutory 
 price and notify the same to the landlord and 
 the State authority. 
 
 (6.) If the landlord on receiving such notifica- 
 tion does not accept the price, he may within 
 the prescribed time withdraw his application 
 on payment of such sum for costs as the Land 
 Commission may order, but otherwise 
 
 the Land Commission shall fix the price so 
 notified as the price of the estate. 
 
 (7.) As soon as the price is fixed, the Land Com- 
 mission shall, in the prescribed, manner cause 
 to bo carried to the account of the estate the 
 amount of such price, after deducting one per 
 cent of such price for the costs of purchase 
 and distribution, and the amount so carried 
 to the account of the estate is hereafter re- 
 ferred to as the purchase money. 
 
 (8.) The Land Commission shall also make such 
 orders or do such acts as may be prescribed 
 ( a ) For vesting each tenanted holding on the 
 estate, except as in this act mentioned, in th« 
 tenant thereof, for an estate in fee-simple free 
 from incumbrances but subject to any an- 
 nuity due under this act for payment of tha 
 consideration payable by such tenant for th* 
 
41 
 
 acquisition of the fee -si in pie, and with and 
 subject to all rights and easements granted 
 and reserved : provided that the interest so 
 Tested in the tenant shall, subject to 
 any such annuity, rights, and easements 
 ;is aforesaid, be a graft upon the pre- 
 vious interest of the tenant in the 
 holding, and be subject to auy rights or 
 equities arising from its being such graft ; 
 and ( b ) for vesting any holding of which the 
 tenant does not in pursuance of this act be- 
 come the owner in the State authority for 
 au estate in fee-simple, free from incum- 
 brances, with and subject to all rights and 
 easements granted or reserved. 
 
 DISTRIBUTION OF PURCHASE MONET. 
 vIL— (1.) As soon as the purchase money is 
 carried to the account of an estate sold under 
 this act, the claims of the immediate landlord 
 and of all other persons (except the tenant 
 and persons claiming under him) who are 
 interested in the estate, whether as incum- 
 brances or otherwise, shall attach to such 
 purchase money in like manner as imme- 
 diately before the sale they attached to the 
 estate sold, and shall cease to be of any 
 validity as against the estate, and subject as 
 in this act mentioned shall be discharged or 
 redeemed out of such purchase money, and 
 the Land Commission shall determine the 
 rights and priorities of the landlord and 
 .such other persons, and shall distribute the 
 purchase money in accordance with such 
 rights and priorities. 
 
 ‘{2.) The distribution of the purchase money 
 shall be effected by the transfer or appro- 
 priation in the prescribed manner to or in 
 trust for the person entitled to the same, 
 or any part thereof, of a sum of three per 
 cent perpetual annuities at par, equal to the 
 amount to which such person is entitled, 
 subject to the option in this act mentioned 
 of taking other perpetual annuities, or deben- 
 tures, or cash, and such distribution 
 shall be made without costs to the 
 persons so entitled, and a reasonable 
 sum for costs may be allowed by the Land 
 Commission to such persons for proving their 
 title upon such distribution, and may be 
 paid as part of the costs of the Land Commis- 
 sion ; provided that this provision as to the 
 payment of costs shall not. extend to any ex- 
 pense which is caused by disputed titles, or 
 disputed priorities, or by unnecessary or un- 
 reasonable proceedings, or by the failure of 
 •any person to comply with the prescribed re- * 
 gulations, or by any other act or default of 
 -the parties which appears to the Land Com- 
 unissiou to make it just that the parties, or 
 any of them, should pay the costs, in which 
 case they order bucIj parties to pay the costs 
 caused as aforesaid, or such part thereof as to 
 the Commission shall seem proper. 
 
 *(3.) Where the purchase money or any part 
 thereof so appropriated or transferred is not 
 -immediately distributable, or the persons en- 
 titled thereto cannot be ascertained, or 
 nvhere from any other cause the Land Com- 
 mission thinks it expedient for the protection 
 <of the rights of the persons interested, then, 
 subject to the prescribed regulations, the 
 Land Commission shall, as the case requires, 
 either retain the same under their control, or 
 deal with the same in manner provided by 
 the Settled Land Act, 1882, with respect to 
 capital money arising under that act, aud may 
 by order declare the trusts affecting such 
 
 money or share, so far as the Land Commis- 
 sion lias ascertained the same, or state the 
 facts or matters found by it iu relation to 
 the rights aud interests therein ; and the Land 
 Commission may from time to time make 
 such orders in respect to any purchase money 
 or share, and the investment or application 
 thereof, or the"payment thereof, or theannual 
 income thereof to the persons interested, as 
 the circumstances of the case may require. 
 
 RULES AS TO INCUMBRANCES. 
 
 VIII. — (1.) Where any estate in course of sale 
 under this act is subject to auy chief rent as 
 defined by this act, the statutory price of 
 such Chief rent shall be ascertained by the 
 Land Commission in the manner in this sec- 
 tion mentioned, and notice shall be given ta 
 the State authority of the amount of such 
 chief rent, and the statutory price thereof, 
 and 6uch authority shall, within the pre- 
 scribed time after receipt of the notice, 
 signify, to the Land Commission, whether 
 such authority will continue to pay die 
 chief rent, or redeem the same forthwith, birfr 
 where such chief rent is a Crown rent the 
 same shall be redeemed foith with. 
 
 (2.) If the State authority signify to the Land 
 Commission their option to continue to pay 
 the chief rent, such chief rent shall be paid 
 out of the land revenues, in this act men- 
 tioned, but the State authority may at any 
 time redeem the chief rent by payment of the 
 statutory price thereof, or of auy less sum 
 which may be agreed upon between suche. 
 authority and the owner of the chief rent. 
 
 (3.) Where a chief rent is redeemed forthwith* 
 the statutory price of the chief rent shall b« 
 added to the statutory price of the estate, 
 and, after the like deduction for costs, shall 
 be carried to the account of the estate and, 
 distributed in like manner as the statutory 
 price. 
 
 (4.) The statutory price of a chief rent shall be 
 measured by the net amount thereof, that 
 is to say, by the sum receivable by the owner- 
 of the chief rent after deducting therefrom 
 the like deductions ascertained in like manner- 
 as in the case of an estate, and the statutory 
 price of such chief rent shall be equal in the 
 case of a Crown rent, to twenty-four times 1 * 
 and in the case of any other chief rent be 
 twenty-two times the amount of such nek 
 rent ascertained as aforesaid. 
 
 (5.) In ascertaining for tho purpose of this act 
 the net rent of the estate subject to a chief 
 rent, that chief rent shall be deducted from, 
 the gross rent. 
 
 IX. — All such incumbrances other than chief 
 rents as are not otherwise provided for iu this 
 act, shall be valued at such price as may be agreed! 
 upon between the parties interested, and if there 
 is no agreement, at such price as may be 
 determined by the Land Commission to be the 
 market value thereof, subject as follows 
 
 (1.) Annual Bums, such as jointures and other- 
 sums, payment of which depends on a life <ar 
 lives, shall be valued at the then present value 
 of such sums, according to the tables in use 
 by the Commissioners for the Reduction »f the 
 National Debt for the grant of life annuities:: 
 provided that — (a) If the person liable to pay- 
 such jointure requests that a portion of .the 
 purchase money sufficient to meet such, 
 annual sum shall be set apart, and theannual! 
 sum shall continue to be paid, such requests; 
 shall be complied with ; and (5), If such per- 
 son is tenant for life provision may be made 
 
42 
 
 in such manner as to the Land Commission 
 seems equitable for securing the remainder- 
 man against the loss which he might suffer by 
 the redemption of such annual sum at the 
 then present value. 
 
 (2.) Drainage charges and any charges payable 
 only for a number of years, and not being 
 chief rents, shall be valued at their then 
 present value, interest being taken at the rate 
 adopted in the creation thereof, or if none 
 was so adopted, at 3 per cent per annum. 
 
 (3.) Capital sums shall be valued at the amount 
 of the sums for the time being due. 
 
 X.— Where a chief rent, or head rent, or tithe 
 xentcharge, is charged on any other estate as 
 well as on the estate sold, the Land Commission 
 shall apportion the chief or headrent or tithe 
 xentcharge between the estate sold and the other 
 estate on which the rent or rentcharge is charged 
 aA such manner as to them seems equitable, and 
 such portion of the rent or rentcharge as is ap- 
 portioned to the estate in course of sale shall 
 alone be deemed to be the chief or headrent or 
 "tithe rentcharge chargeable on that estate. 
 
 RIGHTS OF COMMON AND OTHER RIGHTS. 
 
 XL — (1.) — Where any beneficial rights of com- 
 mon, pasturage, sporting, fishing, turbary, or 
 cutting timber, or rights of way, or other 
 rights are exercisable over a tenanted estate, 
 sold under this act, or exercisable over any 
 other land as incident to the tenure by the 
 landlord of such tenanted estate, or where 
 the landlord of any such estate is the owner of 
 any timber thereon, such rights, and the 
 ownership of such timber, shall be dealt with 
 in the manner provided by the first schedule 
 to this act. 
 
 (2.) Where there is reasonable cause to suppose 
 that there are valuable minerals under a 
 tenanted estate sold under this act, there 
 shall be added to the statutory price of the 
 ^estate such sum as the Land Commission 
 determine in respect of the value of such 
 minerals, and such minerals shall vest in the 
 State authority or in such local body as the 
 Irish Legislature may provide, with full 
 power to such authority or body or to 
 persons authorised by them to enter and 
 do everything necessary for getting the 
 aarne, paying, nevertheless, compensation 
 for all damage done in so doing to the 
 tenant or other person who suffered the 
 same. 
 
 1IH1.) Where the tenants of any estate pro- 
 posed for sale under this act have been ac- 
 customed, whether of right, or as incident to 
 their tenancies, or by permission, to exercise 
 or enjoy any right or privilege of tur- 
 bury, common, pasturage, taking seaweed, or 
 other right or privilege, the State authority 
 may refuse to purchase that estate unless 
 such arrangements are made as satisfy the 
 Land Commission that the tenants will enjoy 
 the same right or privilege. 
 
 {2.) Where the landlord of any tenanted estate 
 proposed to be sold under this act possesses 
 any bog in the neighbourhood of such es- 
 tate, the landlord may, and if the State au- 
 thority so require shall, also sell such bog to 
 the State authority, and this act shall apply 
 to such bog as if it were part of the tenanted 
 estate: provided that such bog shall either be 
 vested in the State authority or in such local 
 body as the Irish Legislature may provide for 
 the purpose of giving to the tenants of the 
 s estate or inhabitants of the neighbourhood 
 lights or privileges of turbary, or if the 
 
 Land Commission think fit may be appor- 
 tioned among the tenants of the estate in- 
 habitants or other persons, and in either 
 case such payments shall be required from 
 such tenants, inhabitants or other persons as 
 the Land Commission consider to be sufficient 
 to repay the State authority for the price. 
 
 MODIFICATIONS OF GENERAL TERMS OF PURCHASE. 
 
 XIII. — The Land Commission, in ascertaining 
 the deductions to be made from the gross 
 rent of any estate for the purpose of arriving 
 at the net rent, shall take into account any 
 circumstance which makes it inequitable to 
 follow strictly the rules laid down by this act 
 for finding the net rent, and shall deal with 
 the case in such manner as they think most 
 consistent with justice. 
 
 XIV. — Where a tenant of a holding on an estate 
 in course of sale under this act holds a bene- 
 ficial lease, that is to say, a lease the rent 
 reserved by which is less than the rent which 
 would be fixed as the judicial rent, the 
 following provisions shall apply : — (a) In 
 ascertaining the statutory price of the 
 estate the gross and net rent of such 
 holding shall be ascertained in like 
 manner as if there were no lease, but a proper 
 deduction shall be made from the statutory 
 price in respect of the value of such bene- 
 ficial lease, due regard being had to the ad- 
 ditional security which the landlord has for 
 the rent by reason of the existence of such 
 lease, (b) In determining the consideration 
 to be paid by the tenant in respect of his 
 acquisition of the fee simple of his holding, 
 an addition shall be made on account of in- 
 crease of rent at the period corresponding 
 with the end of his lease, and the terms of 
 the annuity payable as the consideration for 
 the purchase of his holding may be varied 
 for that purpose, so however that he 
 shall not be required to pay during a 
 period corresponding with the term of his 
 lease any sum in excess of the rent under 
 the lease after deducting the average sum 
 allowed in respect »f poor-rate or county cess 
 during the ten years next before the last gale 
 day in the year one thousand eight hundred 
 and eighty -five. 
 
 XV. — Where it appears to the Land Commis- 
 sion that, by reasou of the character or im- 
 poverished condition of any estate or the tenants 
 thereof the statutory price as ascertained under 
 this act is higher than the market value of the 
 estate, or where for any other reason it appears 
 to the Land Commission that it is inequitable 
 that the State authority should be required to 
 buy an estate at the price ascertained under this 
 act, the Land Commission may make a declara- 
 tion to that eft'ect, and thereupon the State autho- 
 rity shall not be required to purchase the same- 
 unless the landlord accept any lower price which 
 the Land Commission declare to bo equitable. 
 
 XVI. — Whereas in exceptional cases, it may be 
 just that the statutory price paid for an estate 
 should be more than twenty times the net rent of 
 the estate as ascertained in the manner provided 
 by this act; be it enacted that where it appears to 
 the Land Commission that from the exceptionally 
 good condition of an estate, or from the excep- 
 tional prosperity of the tenants, or from any other 
 exceptional circumstance, the statutory price of 
 twenty times the net rent would bean insufficient 
 price, the Laud Commission may award as the 
 statutory price of such an estate, a sum not ex- 
 ceeding twenty-two times the not rent of the 
 estate as ascertained in manuer provided by theact. 
 
43 
 
 XVII. — Where an estate sold under this act 
 is situate in any district mentioned in the 
 second schedule hereto, the holdings thereon 
 shall not vest in the tenants, and the State au- 
 thority on completion of sale shall become the 
 owner thereof, and the provisions of this act re- 
 specting the vesting of holdings in the State au- 
 thority shall apply. 
 
 XVIII. — A tenant of a holding valued under the 
 acts relating to the valuation of rateable property 
 in Ireland, at an annual value not exceeding four 
 pounds a year may, on application to the Land 
 Commission, express his dissent from such hold- 
 ing vesting in him in the manner provided by this 
 act, and thereupon no such vesting shall take place, 
 and the State authority shall become the owner 
 of such holding, and the provisions of this act re- 
 specting the vesting of holdings in the State au- 
 thority shall apply. 
 
 PART II. 
 
 LAND COMMISSION. 
 
 XIX — (1.) The Land Commission for the pur- 
 poses of this act shall consist of the following 
 persons, that is to say. 
 
 (2.) If any vacancy takes place in the office of 
 any such Commissioner her Majesty may by 
 warrant under her Royal sign manual appoint 
 a fit person to fill the vacancy. 
 
 (3.) The Commissioners for the purpose of tliis 
 act shall continue in office during the pleasure 
 of her Majesty, and shall each be paid, out of 
 moneys carried to the Customs and Excise 
 account under the Irish Government Act, 
 1886, such salaries as may be determined by 
 the Treasury. 
 
 (4.) Subject to any rules that may be made in 
 pursuance of this act any matter authorised 
 to be done by this act may be done by any one 
 or two of the Commissioners; out if any land- 
 lord, incumbrancer, or other person, or the 
 State authority feels aggrieved by the deci- 
 sion of such Commissioner or Commissioners, 
 such landlord, incumbrancer, person, or au- 
 thority, may have his case reheard before a 
 Court consisting of not less than three Com- 
 missioners. 
 
 XX. — (1.) The Land Commission shall have 
 such officers for the purposes of this act and 
 with such salaries as the Treasury may assign. 
 Such officers may be appointed and removed 
 in such manner as may be provided by regu- 
 lations of the Treasury. 
 
 (2.) The salaries of such officers and the ex- 
 penses of the Office of Land Commission 
 shall, so far as they are not otherwise pro- 
 vided for by law, be paid out of moneys car- 
 ried to the Customs and Excise account 
 under the Irish Government Act, 1886. 
 
 (3.) Any officer attached to the Land Judges’ 
 branch of the Chancery Division of the High 
 Court of Justice or to the court of either 
 of the said judges may, with his consent, be 
 transferred to the office of the Laud Com- 
 mission, or discharge such duties under this 
 act as the Land Commission may assign to 
 him, and in either case may be awarded such 
 remuneration for his services as the Treasury 
 may determine. 
 
 XXI. — The Land Commission shall be a 
 superior court of record, and shall for the purposes 
 of this act have, in addition to the power already 
 possessed by them* all powers vested in or exer- 
 ciseable by the Laud Judges, and may exercise 
 such powers in relation to any person or matter 
 within their jurisdiction. 
 
 XXII. — If the Land Commission desire to have 
 a legal decision upon any point arising in the exei * 
 
 cise of their powers under this act, the Commis- 
 sion may submit a case to the Court of Appeal, 
 and the court shall hear the case as nearly as 
 may be in like manner as if it were an ap- 
 peal in an action between the persons 
 interested in the matter, but with power 
 for the court to make such alterations 
 in the course of the procedure as they may, think 
 expedient in the interests of justice; and die de- 
 cision of such court, or if the decision is appealed! 
 against, the final decision on the appeal in such 
 case shall be duly observed by the Land Commis- 
 sion and by all persons concerned. The proceedings 
 of the Land Commission under this act shall not be 
 questioned save as provided by this section and 
 shall not be restrained by mandamus, prohibi- 
 tion, or otherwise howsoever. 
 
 XXIII. — (1.) Subject to any rules made in- 
 pursuance of this act, where the- 
 
 purchase money has been carried to the 
 account of an estate, the Land Commis- 
 sion may in their discretion distribute 
 the same as funds are distributed on sales of 
 estates in the Landed Estates Court, or may 
 cause to be given notices calling on all per- 
 sons to send in their claims against such 
 purchase money, which notices may be given 
 in like manner as notices given by the High 
 Court of Justice in an administration suit 
 for creditors and others to send in to the- 
 executors their claims against the estate of 
 the testator. 
 
 (2.) At the expiration of the time named in- 
 such notices for sending in claims, the 
 Land Commission may proceed to distri- 
 bute the purchase money, having regard to 
 the claims of which such Commission, 
 have then notice, and without regard to 
 claims of which they have not notice; but 
 nothing m the foregoing provisions of this 
 section shall prejudice any right of the 
 claimant to recover the money from any per- 
 son liable to pay the same, nor his right to • 
 establish a claim against any part of the pur- 
 chase money, ivhich remains under the control 
 of the Land Commission, and has not been ap- 
 propriated to any claimant. 
 
 (3.) The Commission may also exclude any per- 
 son who refuses or fails to produce such evi- 
 dence of his claim as the Land Commission: 
 may reasonably require. 
 
 XXIV. — The Land Commission may, with the^ 
 
 approval of the Lord Lieutenant, from time- 
 time make, and when made, alter and revoke, 
 rules in respect of the following mat- 
 ters : — («) As to the mode in which 
 
 the business is to be conducted by 
 the Land Commission under this act, 
 and the procedure and forms to be ob- 
 served ami used in carrying into effect sales 
 under this act ; (6) as to anything by this 
 
 act directed to be prescribed ; and (c) 
 for carrying into effect any provisions 
 of this act which require to be carried into 
 effect by rule; with power to specify\the 
 manner in which the judicial business is to 
 be separated from the administrative, but 
 subject tv> the provisions of this act- as to the - 
 re-hearing of cases and otherwise, and any 
 such rules shall be of the same effect as if 
 they were enacted in this act. 
 
 PART III. 
 
 FINANCIAL AKUANGKMBNTS. 
 
 XXV. — The Treasury shall from time to timft 
 appoint a Receiver- General of the Public 
 Revenues of Ireland (in this act referred.' 
 to as the Irish Receiver-General), and 
 
44 
 
 such deputies or deputy to act under 
 kim in any part or parts of Ireland {is to 
 the Treasury seem necessary for the execution of 
 <his act. Such Receiver-General and deputies shall 
 hold office as persons serving in an established 
 opacity in the permanent Civil Service of the 
 and shall be subject generally to the direc- 
 tions of the Treasury, and shall be paid out of 
 moneys provided by the Imperial Parliament 
 i salaries as theTreaaury from time to time assign , 
 
 XXVI. — All sums payable by tenants of holdings 
 vested in them in pursuance of this act, and all 
 turns receivable by the State authority in pur- 
 suance of this act, whether as capital or income, 
 from any estates which are vested in them or 
 over which they have any right, or from which 
 they derive any profit, (which sums are in this act 
 referred to as land revenues) shall be collected by 
 such collectors as the Irish Government may from 
 time to time appoint for that purpose. 
 
 XXVII. — (I.) There shall be paid to the Irish 
 Receiver- General all sums collected by a 
 collector m respect of any tax, duty, or im- 
 post imposed or levied by or under the direc- 
 tion of the Irish Legislature for the public 
 service in Ireland or collected by a collector 
 in respect of the land revenues under tills act, 
 and all sums other than those above men- 
 tioned and payable on account or in respect 
 of the public revenues of the Government of 
 Ireland, whatever collector or person is liable 
 to pay the same,' 
 
 (2.) There shall also be paid to the Irish Receiver- 
 General all moneys directed by the Irish Go- 
 vernment Act, 1886, to be carried to the 
 Customs and Excise account. 
 
 (3.) If default is made in payment to the Irish 
 Receiver-General of any sum by this section 
 required to be paid to him by any person, 
 the person who makes such default, and the 
 person who receives such sum in respect of 
 which such default is made, and every per- 
 son whether a member of a corporation or 
 not, who is privy to such default, shall 
 forfeit double such sum to her Majesty, 
 and the Irish Receiver-General, or one of his 
 deputies, shall take proceedings to recover 
 such sum, and the sum when recovered shall 
 be paid into the Consolidated Fund of the 
 United Kingdom. 
 
 (4.) If the Irish Receiver-General under this 
 act or any of his deputies is guilty of any 
 malfeasance in his office, lie shall forfeit to 
 her Majesty all sums lost by such malfeasance, 
 and also such penal sum not exceeding five 
 hundred pounds as the court in which the 
 forfeiture is sued for may determine; and 
 such forfeiture and penal sum may he re- 
 covered by action on behalf of the Irish Go- 
 vernment, and when recovered shall be paid 
 to the Irish Consolidated Fund. 
 
 (5.) Every action or legal proceeding by or against 
 the Irish Receiver-General or any of his de- 
 puties or deputy shall, if either of the parties 
 thereto so desire, be heard and determined 
 by the Exchequer Division, or one of the 
 judges thereof, and the provisions of the Irish 
 Government Act, 1886, with respect to legal 
 proceedings by or against the Commissioners 
 of Customs in the Exchequer Division, shall 
 ■ apply in like manner as if those provisions 
 -were herein re-enacted, and in terms made 
 applicable to the Irish Receiver-General, and 
 such Exchequer Division shall have for such 
 purpose the same powers as at the passing of 
 this act are vested in any division of the 
 High Court of Justice. 
 
 XXVIII. — (1.) The Irish Receiver- General shall 
 apply all sums received by him : first, in paying 
 all sums payable out of the moneys carried 
 under the Irish Government Act, 1886, to the 
 account therein called the Customs and Excise 
 Account; and secondly, in paying all sums 
 directed by this act to be paid out of the 
 Land Revenues or out of moneys corning to 
 the hands of such Receiver-Gen sral. 
 
 (2.) The Receiver-General shali pay all sums 
 which are not, or in his opinion are not likely 
 to be, required for making the above- 
 mentioned payments to the Irish Consolidated 
 Fund. 
 
 XXIX. — There shall be issued and placed at the 
 disposal of the Land Commission for the pur- 
 poses of this act, in such manner and under 
 such regulations as the Treasury from time 
 to time may make, such sums of permanent 
 annuities as are from time to time required 
 for the said purposes : provided that the 
 nominal capital amount of such annuities so 
 issued shall not exceed (a) in respect of ap- 
 plications for purchase received from land- 
 lords during the financial year ending on the 
 31st day of March next, after the appointed 
 day, £i0,000,000; and (,6) in respect of ap- 
 plications for purchase received from land- 
 lords during the said financial year, and the 
 succeeding financial year, £20,000,000, with 
 the addition of so much of the above-men- 
 tioned £10,000,000 as is not required for the 
 applications before mentioned; and (c) in re- 
 spect of applications for purchase received 
 from landlords during the above-mentioned 
 financial years, and the financial year 
 next following the same, the sum of 
 £20,000,000 with the addition of so much 
 of the above-mentioned £30,000,000 as is 
 not required for the applications before 
 mentioned ; but so that not more than 
 £20,000,000 permanent annuities shall be 
 issued in any one financial year. 
 
 (2.) The Treasury may, if they think fit, from 
 time to time make regulations for the issue, 
 in lieu of three per cent permanent annuities, 
 of annuities of the same class sis existing per- 
 manent annuities of lower denomination, and 
 if such regulations are made, any person en- 
 titled to the payment of any purchase money 
 or share of purchase money under this act 
 may, instead of three per cent permanent 
 annuities, receive any of such annuities ©f 
 lower denomination at such prices, not less 
 than those mentioned in the third schedule 
 to this act .and in accordance with such pro- 
 visions, as may be made by the said regula- 
 tions. 
 
 XXX. — Where the amount of permanent annui- 
 ties authorised to be issued in any financial 
 year is insufficient to meet the sums required in 
 that year for the purchase money of estates sold 
 under this act upon applications received from 
 landlords, there shall be issued, under such regu- 
 lations as the Treasury from time to time make, 
 scrip representing the said sums for which 
 the said annuities are so insufficient, so, how- 
 ever, that the aggregate capital amount of the 
 annuities issued and the scrip shall not together 
 exceed £5<»,000,000 ; and such scrip shall 
 in the next financial year be exchanged under 
 such regulations as the Treasury may from 
 time to time make, for the like nominal 
 amount of permanent annuities, aiul until so 
 exchanged shall hear interest at the rate of 
 three per cent per annum, which interest shall 
 accrue from day to day, and be payable half- 
 
45 
 
 yearly on the days fixed by the Treasury by the 
 Irish Receiver General out; of moneys coming to 
 his hands next in priority after the annual sum 
 for interest and sinking fund of the per- 
 manent annuities issued under this act, and 
 such scrip may be transferable to such extent 
 and in such manner as may be from time to time 
 provided by the regulations of the Treasury. 
 
 XXXI — (1.) For the purposes of this act, the 
 Treasury may create three pounds per cent 
 per annum permanent annuities, and two 
 pounds fifteen shillings per cent per annum 
 permanent annuities, and two pounds and 
 ten shillings per cent per annum permanent 
 annuities, and such annuities and all interest 
 from time to time due thereon should be 
 charged on and be payable out of the Con- 
 solidated Fund of the United Kingdom, or 
 out of the growing produce thereof at such 
 times in each year as may be fixed by the 
 Treasury. 
 
 (2.) The said annuities shall be created by 
 warrant from the Treasury to the Governor 
 andjCompany of the Bank of England, direct- 
 ing them to inscribe in their books the 
 amount of such anuities in the names directed 
 by the warrant. 
 
 (3.) The said annuities shall, in manner 
 directed by the warrant, be consolidated with 
 annuities at the same rate of interest, and 
 payable at the same date, and shall be trans- 
 ferable in the said books in like manner, as 
 the annuities with which they are consoli- 
 dated, and shall be subject to the enact- 
 ments relating to those annuities so far as 
 consistent with the tenor of those enact- 
 ments. 
 
 XXXII. — (1.) For the purpose of paying the 
 interest and sinking fund on the permanent 
 annuities issued under this act, which an- 
 nuities are in this act referred to as the Land 
 Purchase Debt, the Irish Receiver-General 
 shall, out of the moneys coming to his hands, 
 pay to her Majesty’s Paymaster-General an 
 annual sum of four per cent on the nominal 
 capital amount of the Land Purchase Debt. 
 
 (2.) Such sum shall be applied under the direc- 
 tion of the Treasury in paying the interest 
 on a portion of the National Debt equal to 
 the amount of the Land Purchase Debt, or so 
 much thereof as has not been redeemed, and 
 the remainder shall be paid to the Commis- 
 sioners for the Reduction of the National 
 Debt, and shall be applied by them in the 
 redemption of the National Debt in like 
 manner as if it were part of the new sinking 
 fund. 
 
 (3.) As soon as an amount of the National Debt 
 equal to the Land Purchase Debt has been 
 redeemed by payments under this section 
 the said annual sum shall cease to be pay- 
 able. 
 
 (4.) Where the consideration payable by a 
 tenant in respect of the acquisition of the 
 fee-simple of his holding under this act is 
 •wholly or partly paid down, or any sum is 
 paid for the redemption of the whole or part 
 of any annuity payable on account of such 
 consideration, or is paid on the sale of any 
 estate or holding or minerals or timber by 
 the State authority, or othrewise, any sum in 
 the nature of capital is paid in respect of 
 any estate sold under this act, the considera- 
 tion or sum so paid shall be paid to the Irish 
 Receiver-General, and shall be paid by him 
 to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the 
 National Debt, and shall be applied by them 
 
 as part of the sums received under this act 
 for the redemption of the National Debt, and 
 the Treasury shall thereupon reduce propor- 
 tionately the said annual sum. 
 
 XXXIII. — The Treasury shall from time to time 
 make suchregulations to provide for broken periods, 
 whether as regards the interest onannuities created 
 under this act or as regards the annual sum pay- 
 able by the Irish Receiver- General in respect of 
 such annuities, or otherwise in connection with 
 the financial arrangements under this act as they 
 from time to time find most convenient for the 
 public service. 
 
 XXXIV — (1.) Subject to the provisions of any 
 act passed by the Irish Legislature, the Irish 
 Government may from time to time issue 
 land debentures in such form and for such 
 period, and payable off in such manner, and 
 bearing such rate of interest, not exceeding 
 the rate of three per cent, per annum, payable- 
 by coupons or otherwise, as the regulations of 
 such Government may provide, so, however, 
 that the total amount of such debentures 
 shall not exceed £5,000,000. 
 
 (2.) Such debentures, or the cash raised by such 
 debentures, shall be placed at the disposal of 
 the Land Commission for the purpose of paying 
 to the persons interested the purchase money 
 of estates sold under this act, and shall not 
 be applied otherwise, and subject to the pre- 
 scribed regulations, any person entitled to 
 payment of any such purchase money or any 
 share thereof may, at his option, take in lieu 
 of permanent annuities any such debenture 
 or cash which is available for such payment. 
 
 (3.) The principal and interest of such deben- 
 tures shall be charged on the sums coining 
 into the hands of the Irish Receiver-General 
 next after the charge of any other sums 
 charged thereon under this act. 
 
 (4.) Subject to the provisions of any act of the 
 Irish Legislature the provisions of the Land 
 Debentures (Ireland) Act, 1865, shall so far 
 as consistent with the tenor thereof apply to 
 all debentures issued in pursuance of this act. 
 
 XXXV. — The Treasury, if the Irish Government 
 so request, may from time to time make out of 
 the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom 
 advances equal to the sums deducted by the Land 
 Commission^or the payment of costs from the- 
 statutory price of estates sold under this act, and 
 such advances shall be applied in payment of the 
 costs of the Land Commission, and shall be repaid 
 to the said Consolidated Fund within a period nofe. 
 exceeding ten years from the date of the advances, 
 out of moneys coming into the hands of the Irish 
 Receiver-General, and interest at the rate of three 
 per cent per annum shall be paid out of the same 
 money on so much of the advances as is for the 
 time being outstanding. All other costs of the- 
 Land Commission incurred in the execution of this 
 act shall be defrayed out of moneys coming infe» 
 the hands of tne Irish Receiver-General. 
 
 PART IV. 
 
 SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS. 
 
 XXXVI. — The Irish Government shall estab- 
 lish a registry of title, and all estates and holding* 
 under this act shall be entered on such register. 
 Subject to any act of the Irish Legislature, 
 stamp duty shall be payable on any order vesting 
 an estate in any tenant or the State authority 
 under this act, and shall be paid by such tenant, 
 or State authority. The rules in the fourth 
 schedule hereto providing for the mode in which 
 a registry is to be established and the effect of 
 such registry, 3hall apply to any registry 
 of title established under this act, ami! 
 
46 
 
 •shall have the same effect as if they 
 were enacted in the body of this act. 
 The interest of a tenant in any holding which 
 may be acquired under the provisions of this act, 
 or the fee-simple in which has been acquired under 
 the provisions of the Irish Church Act, 1869, or 
 the Laud Law (Ireland) Act, 1881 ; or the Purchase 
 of Land (Ireland) Act, 1885, shall be for all pur- 
 poses personal estate, without prejudice to auy 
 interest acquired by any dealing with or devolution 
 ' of such holding before the passing of this act. 
 
 XXXVII. — Every annuity payable by a tenant 
 in pursuance of this act shall be a charge on the 
 holding subject thereto, having priority over all 
 existing and future estate, interests, and incum- 
 brances, and such sum shall be recoverable by the 
 State authority, or by any officer of that autho- 
 rity, in such manner as may be provided by 
 act of the Irish Legislature, and until such pro- 
 vision is made in the manner provided by Part III 
 of the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Act, 1870, as 
 amended by the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) 
 Act, 1872, as if the annuity were such an ad- 
 vance as mentioned in those acts, and the 
 State authority were the board therein 
 mentioned. A certificate purporting to be under 
 the seal of the State authority or of any officer 
 of that authority shall be evidence that the 
 amount of any annuity or arrears of annuity 
 stated therein to be due under this act in respect 
 of any holding named therein is due to the 
 authority in respect of such holding. Any such 
 annuity as aforesaid may be redeemed by the per- 
 son for the time being liable for the same in the 
 manner provided by Section 51 of the Landlord 
 and Tenant (Ireland) Act, 1870, or by Section 28 
 of the Land Law (Ireland)jlct, 1881, or by Section 
 4 of the Purchase of Land (Ireland) Aqt, 1885, 
 and the table in the schedule to that act. 
 
 XXXVIII. — So long as a holding is subject to 
 any charge in respect of an annuity under tins 
 act, the following conditions shall be imposed on 
 such holding; that is to say — (a) The holding shall 
 not be subdivided or let by the owner thereof 
 without the consent of the State authority; (6) 
 where the owner subdivides or lets any holding 
 or part of the holding in contravention of this sec- 
 tion, the State authority may cause the holding to 
 be sold ; (c) where the title to the holding is di- 
 vested from the owner by bankruptcy, the State 
 authority may cause the holding of be sold ; ( d ) 
 where on the death of the owner the holding 
 would, by reason of any devise, bequest, in- 
 testacy, or otherwise, become subdivided, the State 
 authority may require the holding to be sold 
 within twelve months after the death of the 
 owner to some one person, and if default is 
 made in selling the same the State authority 
 may cause the same to be sold. With respect to 
 any such sale and the application of the pro- 
 ceeds thereof, the State authority shall have the 
 same power as is given to the Land Commission 
 In relation to sales by Section 30 of the Land 
 Law (Ireland) Act, 1881, as amended by the 
 Purchase of Land (Ireland) Act, 1885, and that 
 section as so amended shall apply accordingly. 
 
 XXXIX.— (1.) Any immediate landlord who 
 holds the estate on trust for any other 
 person may, without prejudice to any 
 power conferred by the Conveyancing and 
 Law of Property Act, 1881, or by the instru- 
 ment creating the trust or otherwise, require 
 the State authority to buy tire estate under 
 this act, and may do all acts necessary for 
 effecting such sale, and if the estate cannot 
 otherwise be sold, tnay agree fco accept a 
 price lower than the statutory price. , 
 
 (2.) Without prejudice to any such power as 
 aforesaid any person holding on trust for 
 any other person an incumbrance on an es- 
 tate may, with a view to induce the landlord 
 of such estate to exercise his option of selling 
 the same under this act, agree to reduce the 
 amount due in respect of such incumbrance, 
 or to commute or otherwise deal with the 
 same in such manner as he may think expe- 
 dient, having regard to the advantages to be 
 derived from the conversion of the estate into 
 annuities or money, or may purchase from 
 the landlord the right to exercise his option. 
 
 (3.) A person may exercise his discretion under 
 this section in the same manner as if he 
 were the absolute beneficial owner of the es- 
 tate or incumbrance, and lie shall not be 
 liable tc have the discretion exercised by him 
 in good faith reviewed in any court of law 
 or equity, or be subjected to any liability in 
 respect of the exercise thereof. 
 
 XL. — Where a married woman, entitled for her 
 separate use, and not restrained from anticipa- 
 tion, is desirous of giving any consent, doing any 
 act, or becoming party to any proceeding under 
 this act, she shall be deemed to be an unmarried 
 woman, but when any other married woman, who 
 is by law incapable of giving her consent or of 
 becoming a party under this act, is desirous of 
 making any application, giving any consent, or 
 becoming party to any proceeding under this act, 
 she shall be examined in the prescribed manner, 
 and if the Land Commission ascertain that she is 
 acting freely and voluntarily she may make 
 such application, do such act, or give 
 such consent as if she were unmarried, and the 
 Land Commission may, where it sees fit, appoint 
 a person to act as the next friend of a married 
 woman for the purpose of any proceeding under 
 tliis act, and may from time to time remove or 
 change such next friend. 
 
 XL I. — Where any person who (if not under 
 disability) might have made any application, 
 giveD any consent, doue auy act, or been party to 
 any proceeding under this act in relation to any land 
 or incumbrance on land, is an infant, idiot, or luna- 
 tic, the guardian or committee of the estate respec- 
 tively of such person may mak$ such application, 
 give such consents, do such acts, and be party to 
 such proceedings, as such person respectively, 
 if free from disability, might have made, given, 
 done, or been party to, and shall other- 
 wise represent such person for the purposes 
 of this act ; where there is no guar- 
 dian or committee of the estate of any such 
 person as aforesaid, being infant, idiot, or lunatic, 
 or where any person is ot unsound mind or in- 
 capable of managing his affairs, but has not been 
 found lunatic under an inquisition, it shall be 
 lawful for the Land Commission to appoint a 
 guardian of such person for the purpose of any 
 proceedings under this act, and from time to time 
 to change such guardian. 
 
 XLII. — If in the course of any proceedings be- 
 fore the Land Commission in pursuance of this 
 act any person concerned in such proceedings with 
 intent to conceal the title or claim of any person, 
 or to substantiate a false claim, suppresses, at- 
 tempts to suppress, or is privy to the suppres- 
 sion of any document or of any fact, 
 the person so suppressing, attempting to 
 suppress, or privy to suppression, shall be guilty 
 of a misdemeanour, and upon conviction on in- 
 dictment shall be liable to be imprisoned for a 
 term not exceeding two years, with or without 
 hard labour, or to be fined such sum not exceed- 
 ing five hundred pounds a* tbo court before 
 
47 
 
 which lie is tried may award. 
 
 XLIII. — All tithe rent charge payable to the 
 Land Commission in respect of any estate sold 
 undei this act shall be paid by the Irish Receiver- 
 General out of moneys coming into his hands for 
 a period of forty-nine years from the date of the 
 sale of such estate, unless the same is previously 
 redeemed in the manner provided by an act of the 
 Legislature of Ireland, but so long as any charge 
 guaranteed by the Treasury on such tithe rent- 
 charge is unpaid the term of such redemption shall 
 be assented to by the Treasury before the passing 
 of such act. 
 
 PART V. 
 
 ESTATE. 
 
 XLIV. — For the purposes of this act “an 
 estate” means any land which the Land Commis- 
 sion may by order declare to constitute an estate 
 within the meaning of this act. “ Tenanted 
 estate” means any estate in the occupation of 
 tenants, including any part of such estate which, 
 though temporarily unlet, is ordinarly let to 
 tenants, including also any part of an estate let 
 for the purposes of agistment, or temporary de- 
 pasturage. Townparks, houses in villages, and 
 other houses, which are held as part of or as in- 
 cidental to any estate, in the course of 
 sale under this act may be treated for the 
 purposes of tlus act as part of such estate. 
 
 XLV. — This act shall not apply to — 
 
 (1.) Any estate winch is not in the main agri- 
 cultural or pastoral in its character, or partly 
 agricultural and partly pastoral; nor to 
 
 (2.) Any estate which is within the limits of a 
 town; nor to 
 
 (3.) Any estate or part of an estate which is 
 demesne land, or is or forms part of a home 
 farm, or is ordinarily occupied by a landlord; 
 nevertheless, such estate or part may on the 
 request of the landlord, be purchased by the 
 State authority, if such authority think fit, 
 at a price not exceeding the agricultural 
 value thereof, and shall be vested in the 
 State authority as owner thereof, and the 
 proceedings of this act with respect to the 
 vesting of estates in the State authority 
 shall apply accordingly. Where any holding 
 ■let to be used wholly or mainly for 
 the purposes of pasture, and valued 
 under the acts relating to the valu- 
 ation of rateable property in Ireland at an 
 annual value of not less than £50 forms 
 part of any estate proposed to be sold by the 
 landlord, the landlord may, if he thinks fit, 
 exclude such holding from the sale, and 
 nevertheless require the State authority to 
 purchase the remainder of his estate. On 
 the other hand, if the landlord wishes to in- 
 clude any such holding in the sale of his 
 estate, the State authority may, if they 
 think it expedient so to do, refuse to pur- 
 chase such holding. 
 
 LANDLORD. 
 
 XLVI. — “ The immediate landlord of a tenanted 
 estate ” means the person whatever his inte- 
 rest may be in the estate, who at the introduction 
 of this act into Parliament, that is to say, on the 
 seventeenth day of April, one thousand eight hun- 
 dred and eighty-six, was the immediate land- 
 lord or person entitled as landlord, and not as 
 agent or receiver, to receive the rent or take pos- 
 session of the holdings on such estate, and that 
 notwithstanding that a receiver has been ap- 
 pointed by a court, or a mortgagee, or otherwise. 
 
 XLVII. — The option of sale conferred on the 
 immediate landlord by this act may be trans 
 
 fer- 
 
 tile immediate landlord to ' r.r.v other 
 
 person by deed or will, or, if not bequeathed, may- 
 pass by devolution on death, but, save as afore- 
 said, shall not be transferred to any person by- 
 law or otherwise without the voluntary act of the 
 immediate landlord. Any person entitled to ex- 
 ercise an option derived from an immediate land- 
 lord in pursuance of this act, shall be deemed for 
 tlve purpose of this act to be the immediate land- 
 lord. Subject to rules under this act, where the 
 immediate landlord as defined by this act of any 
 estate himself pays rent in respect of such estate 
 to a superior landlord, he shall, at the prescribed 
 time, give notice to such superior landlord of his 
 intention to exercise the option of sale, and if 
 such superior landlord objects to the exercise 
 thereof by the inferior landlord, the superior and 
 inferior landlords may agree as to the terms on 
 which they or one of them may exercise 
 such option, or in the event of disagree- 
 ment, the superior landlord may appiy 
 to the Land Commission to substitute him 
 for the inferior landlord, and the Land Commis- 
 sion may substitute the superior landlord for 
 the inferior landlord on the superior landlord 
 purchasing the estate of the inferior landlord afc 
 such price as the Laud Commission may think 
 just; and so if there are more superior landlords; 
 than one, each superior landlord may by agree- 
 ment be substituted for the next inferior land- 
 lord, or may purchase his interest in manner here- 
 inbefore mentioned at a price to be determined 
 by the Land Commission. Where there is a suc- 
 cession of landlords deriving title from one 
 another, the earlier in such succession is deemed 
 to be the superior of the next below in succes- 
 sion, and the next beiow in succession to be the 
 inferior landlord to the landlord next above. Sub- 
 ject to rules under this act, where the imme- 
 diate landlord, on being applied to by a superior 
 landlord to exercise the option of sale, re- 
 fuses to do so,' the landlord aggrieved by 
 such refusal may apply to the Land Com- 
 mission, and if it appears to such Commission 
 that by reason of the smallness of the interest 
 possessed by the immediate landlord, or for any 
 just cause, it is inequitable that the immediate 
 landlord should refuse to exercise his option, the 
 Land Commission may substitute the landlord so 
 applying for the immediate landlord, on his pay- 
 ing, or undertaking to pay out of the purchase- 
 money, to the immediate landlord such sum i£ 
 any as to the Land Commission may seem just. 
 Where in the case of an estate sold under this 
 act the gross rent received by a superior landlord 
 from any inferior landlord under a lease granted 
 to such inferior landlord is or will when appor- 
 tioned be less than one-fifth part of the gross 
 rent of the estate sold under this 
 act, and the interest of such inferior landlord in 
 the estate is equal to or more than one hundred 
 years in duration at the time of the sale, such 
 rent sliall be deemed to be a chief rent, and such 
 superior landlord shall be dealt with as a per- 
 son entitled to a chief rent, and not as a landlord. 
 Subject to the prescribed regulations, where 
 there is a tenanted estate the ultimate reversion of 
 which belongs to one owner, but parcels of which 
 are divided amongst divers immediate landlords, 
 the State authority may, on the applicationof 
 the several landlords entitled to exercise ce land- 
 lord’s option, purchase the whole of such estate, 
 and the sale shall be conducted by such persons 
 as the immediate landlords may agree upon, or 
 may in the event of dispute be determined 
 by the Land Commission. Any question 
 which may arise as to whether a 
 person is a landlord or immediate landlord within 
 
43 
 
 the meaning of this act, or with respect to the 
 landlord entitled to exercise the option of sale 
 under this act, shall be determined by the Land 
 Commission. 
 
 XLVIII. — A landlord shall not be entitled to 
 make an application for the sale of his estate 
 under this act after the thirty-first day of March, 
 acne thousand eight hundred and ninety and any 
 such application if made shall not be enter- 
 tained by the State authority. 
 
 The priority of applications made to the State 
 •authority on the same day shall oe determined 
 Iby lot in the prescribed manner. 
 
 INCUMBRANCES. 
 
 XLIX. — In the construction of this act unless 
 the context otherwise requires, 
 
 “ Incumbrances” means and includes headrents, 
 mortgages, jointures, annual charges, and all other 
 pecuniary outgoings on land, whether capital 
 sums or annual sums, with the exception of the 
 rents payable by the tenants on the estates, of 
 Tates, cess, and of tithe rent charge, payable 
 to the Land Commission; but does not include 
 Tights of common, way, water, sporting, fishing or 
 turbary, rights to timber and minerals, and 
 other like rights or easements. 
 
 “ Head llent” means any Crown rent, quit 
 xent, fee-farm rent, or other rent or rent charge, 
 but does not include tithe rent charge payable to 
 the Land Commission, and does not include the 
 rent payable by a tenant as defined by this act. 
 
 “ Chief Rent” means any head rent as so defined 
 the gross amount of which is or when apportioned 
 as in this act provided will be less than one-fifth 
 of the gross rent of the estate in respect of which 
 the same is paid. 
 
 “ Crown Rent” includes any quit rent due to 
 the Crown. 
 
 “ Incumbrancer” includes all persons owning 
 «or interested in any incumbrance, as herein defined. 
 
 TENANT. 
 
 L.— In the construction of this act, unless the 
 context otherwise requires, “contract of tenancy,” 
 means a letting or agreement for the letting of 
 land for a term of years, or for lives, or for lives 
 and years, or from year to year, or for a year cer- 
 tain, or for any less term.” 
 
 “ Tenant” means a person occupying land 
 tinder a contract of tenancy, and includes the suc- 
 cessors in title or occupancy to a tenant, but 
 ■tvhere the tenant sublets part of his holding with 
 the consent of his landlord he shall, notwithstand- 
 ing such subletting, be deemed for the purposes 
 of this act to be still in occupation of the holding. 
 
 “ Holding ” means the land occupied by a 
 tenant under a contract of tenancy. Where any 
 ■doubt exists as to who is the tenant 
 in whom a holding forming part of an 
 estate purchased under this act should 
 vest, the Land Commission shall decide such 
 doubt in such manner and upon such terms of 
 payment or compensation as they think just. 
 
 LI. — In the construction of this act un- 
 less the context otherwise requires, 
 
 “Gross rent of an estate” means the aggregate 
 of the gross rents of all the holdings on that 
 estate as the same were payable on the last gale 
 day in the year one thousand eight hundred and 
 eighty -five. 
 
 ** Gross rent” of a holding means — 
 
 (1.) The judicial rent of such holding, and 
 
 (2.) Where a judicial rent has not been fixed in 
 the case of any holding, then there may be 
 found the average rate by which the rents 
 previous to the date of the passing of this 
 act fixed by the Land Commission in the 
 
 same electoral division exceed or are le 3 &- 
 than Griffith’s valuation of the holding, and 
 the gross rent of any hoiding may be deemed 
 to be fixed at such average rate over or under 
 Griffith’s valuation, and this rule may be 
 applied whether such holding is or is not 
 a holding for which a judicial rent can be 
 fixed. Pi'ovided that if a landlord selling an 
 estate or the tenant of any holding is dis- 
 satisfied that the gross rent of a holding 
 other than a judicial rent should be ascer- 
 tained in the manner above provided, he 
 may apply to the Land Commission to fix a 
 judicial rent for such holding, and the Com- 
 mission (notwithstanding the Land Law 
 (Ireland) Act, 1881, does not apply to such 
 holding) shall fix for the purposes of this act 
 a judicial rent for such holding, and the 
 cost of so fixing the judicial rent may, if the 
 application appears to the Land Commission to 
 have been ground ess, be ordered to be paid by 
 the applicant. Provided that this act shall not, 
 nor shall any act to be passed by the Irish 
 Legislature, impair any obligation arising from 
 contract or judicial decision under the Land- 
 lord and Tenant (Ireland) Act, 1870, and the 
 Land Law (Ire; and) Act, 1881, and any acts 
 amending the same, or any of such acts. 
 
 GENERAL DEFINITIONS. 
 
 LII. — In the construction of this act, unless the 
 context otherwise requires — 
 
 “State authority” means such person or body 
 of persons or department of the Irish Govern- 
 ment, as the Irish Legislature may determine for 
 the purposes of this act, or.until such Legislature 
 so determine, as may be appointed by the Irish 
 Government, and subject to any act of the Irish 
 Legislature any such person or body of persons, 
 or department shall, until and unless otherwise 
 provided by the Irish Legislature, be deemed to 
 be incorporated and entitled to hold land for the 
 purposes of this act, and any act of such State 
 authority may be testified in such manner as the 
 State authority may from time to time deteri ne .ra 
 
 “ Treasury” means the Commissioners 0 f her 
 Majesty’s Treasury. 
 
 “Prescribed” means prescribed by rules made 
 in pursuance of this act. 
 
 “ Town” means any town corporate, town subject 
 to the control of commissioners appointed in pur- 
 suance of any Act of Parliament, or any town 
 having a market or fair, or any town within, the 
 meaning of the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) 
 Act, 1870. 
 
 “ Person” and “ landlord” respectively include 
 a body of persons, corporate or un in corporate, 
 also the Crown, and any commissioners or persons 
 holding or having the management of property on . 
 behalf of the Crown. 
 
 “ Expenses of unuiagcment” means agent’s, re- 
 ceivers’, pr stewards’ fees or salary, and expenses 
 allowed to them in their accounts for travelling, 
 valuations, maps, scrivenery, stamps, bailiff”* 
 salary, and costs of legal proceedings against 
 tenants for recovery of rent. 
 
 COMMENCEMENT AND APPLICATION OF ACT. 
 
 LI II — This act shall come into operation on the 
 day determined by order of her Majesty in Council, 
 made in pursuance of the Irish Government Act, 
 1886, to be the day on and after which t he Irish 
 Legislature is declared to be established ; ami 
 such day is in this act referred to “ as the ap- 
 pointed day.” 
 
 This act shall apply to Ireland orly.