COMMONWEALTH OP PENNSYLVANIA REPORT OP CONFERENCE OP REPRESENTATIVES OP INDUSTRY, TEACHER TRAINING INSTITUTIONS, AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION -ON- POREMANSHIP TRAINING HARRRISBURG , PBNNA. OCTOBER 16-27, 1922. UNDER AUSPICES OP THE BUREAU OP VOCATIONAL EDUCATION STATE DEPARTMENT OP PUBLIC INSTRUCTION ij’Oi'Gv/ord One of the most significant and hopeful reeent developments in the field of vocational industrial ed- ucation is the well defined movement to establish rautu- ally helpful working relationships between the public schools and industry. It has come to be recognized that the public schools, as v;ell as industry, have a respon- sibility for assisting in the development of effective, well organized instruction to apprentices and others in need of .iob training. jPoreman training, and foreman instructor training are two of the most dynamic and promising aspects of cur- rent vocational industrial education. They are important because they reach a group of persons who are not only key men and women from a production or from a service stand- point, but also key people educationally. Many, if not most of them, have instructional responsibilities, and all of them are in a position to promote or to retard, accor- ding to their vision, any plan of education contemplated for those whom they supervise. It is evident, therefore, that foreman training and foreman instructor training are absolutely vital to a broad, effective program of trade and industrial education. This conference, consisting of representatives from industry, men who are responsible for the organization and development of industrial education, both locally and throughout the State, and representatives of Teacher Train- ing Institutions responsible for the training of trade and industrial teachers, was called for the purpose of consider- ing problems incident to foreman training. Conferences of this nature are needed in order that the respective functions of school people and of persons in industry, in connection with problems of instruction, may become more clearly defined and more widely accepted. The Federal Board for Vocational Education has done much pioneer v/ork along the lines of foreman training. Mr. Frank Cushman, Chief of the Industrial Education Service of the Federal Board, has personally had much experience in connection with the foreman training work of the Federal Board. The Department of Public Instruction, in arranging for this conference, availed itself of the services of Mr. Cushman as conference leader. It was considered necessary to limit the atten- dance at this conference to a small group, but it is hoped that similar conferences will be undertaken in other sections of the State, The Department of public Instruction will be glad to be of ser\’ice in this connection. L. H. Dennis, Director of Vocational Education. 630028 1 if , v I Personnel of the Confex’once Mr. Prank Oushman, Chief, Industrial Education Service, Poderal Board for Vocational Education, Washington , D. C. Mr. A. B. Anderson, State Supervisor of Industrial Education, v/i Imington , Delaware. Mr. Vi Hi am 0- Ash, Director of Vocational Teacher Training, Professor of Vocational Education, University of Pennsylvania, 3437 Woodland Avenue, Phi ladelphia , Pa. Mr. J. V/. Barritt, Supervisor of Apprentices, South Philadelphia 'Works, Westinghouse Eloctric Mfg. Goi., Philadelphia, Pa. Mr. Charles P. Bauder, Director of Industrial Arts, Philadelphia Pu'blic Schools, IVth and pine Streets, Philadelphia, Pa, Mr. P, R. Bingman, General Po reman, Enola Shops, Pennsylvania Railroad Company, Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. L. H. Donnis, Director of Vocational Education, State Department of Public Instruction, Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. 0. D. Evans, Asst. Director of Vocational Education, In Charge of Continuation Schools, State Department of public Instruction, Harrisburg, pa. f \ I fi a" I I ■> m > x * nsp- IDi- I Mr. Morris Harrison, rirector of Personnel, Kan^mermill Paper Gompo.ny, 1438 E. Lake Hoad, Erie, Pa. Mr. H. L. Holbrook, Supervisor of Industrial Education, State Department of x^ublic Instruction, Harrisburg, Pa. Dr. Arthur S. Hurrell, Asst. Dean of Summer Session and of Educational Extension, The Pennsylvania state College, State College, pa. Mr. George E. Jeffrey, Jr., Service and Employment Manager, Dill and Collins Company, Philadelphia, Pa. Mr. Albert Hlufkee, Employment Manager, A. M. Collins Manufacturing Company, 226 Columbia Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa. Mr, W. P. Loomis, Supervisor of Industrial Education, State Department of Public Instruction, Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. John A. McCerthy, Asst, for Trades and Industries, Hew Jersey Department of Public Instruction, Trenton, New Jersey. Mr. 'J. G. Mann, In Charge of Educational VIork, New Jersey Zixio Company, Palrnerton Plant, Palmerton, Pa. Mr. C. B. Milner, Asst. Director of Personnel, Hammermill Paper Company, 318 East 12th Street, Erie, Pa, ■w ... '1 •# ; fy--..: \ > Dr. H. B. Smith, Director of Vocational Department, Univeraity of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, pa. Dr. P. T. Struck, Asst. Director of Vocational Education In Charge of Industrial Education, State Department of Public Instruction Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. H. E. Todd, Supervisor of Manual Training, Harrisburg Public Schools, Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. W. E. vVhite, Head, Mechanical Department, V/ilraington Vocational Schools, Wilmington, Delaware, Mr. G. D. Whitney, Supervisor of Industrial Education, State Department of Public Instruction Harrisburg, Pa. Mr. G. E. Zorger, Director of Extension Glasses, Harrisburg Public Schools, Harrisburg, Pa. Digitized by the Internet Archive in 2017 with funding from University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign Alternates https://archive.org/details/reportonforemansOOconf ifonday, October 16, 1922 Morning Session The first meeting was called at 9:45 by Mr. L. H. Dennis, Director of Vocational Education, State Department of Public Instruction. He outlined briefly the purposes of the conference and then introduced Dr. Thomas E. Pinegan, State Superintendent of Public Instruction, who gave a short address of welcome. Mr. Dennis then introduced Hr. Prank pushman. Chief of the Industrial Education Service of the Pederal Board for Vocational Education, who thereupon took charge of the conference. Mr. Cushman’s opening remarks were in the nature of a general over-view of problems of foreraanship training. He emphasized the fact that there was no absolutely set plan that he had come to sell to the group, but that each individual organization presents a special problem, that conditions vary in different indus- tries, and thus far no one has developed a procedure which fits all conditions. It was pointed out that a complete program of foremanship training may include several subdivisions, and that the job of the educational director or conference leader may include one or more of these subdii'isions of the' whole job. Por purposes of illustration the follov/ing out- line was placed on the black-board: I, Poreman training, A. Por men of long experience as foremen. B, Por prospective foremen in line for promotion. II. Conferences with Department heads and plant ex- ecutives for the purpose of A. Getting their responsibilities defined vath regard to the educational program. B. Devising ways in which their responsibilities can be carried out. III. The setting up of a permanent program in an in- dustrial organization. A. The characteristics of a permanent program. 3. Ways and means of setting up such a program. C. The operation of the program. ' i 1 ■ 1 1^1 1 2 It Vv'iis brought out that the conferenco method of handling a group of foremen is not new, that it really con- sivSts of the adaptation of the oocratic method of teaching. IX was also pointed out that a competent conference leader does not confine himself exclusively to this type of in- struction, but that he teaches either a developmental lesson, or an informational lesson if the particular work in haiid is of such a character that it would be more effec- tive than the straight conference method, fhe essential feature of the Socratic method of teaching is to direct a man’s ovm thinking toward a solution of the problem by moans of skillful questioning. It v\;as pointed out that one of the difficulties which always confronts a conference leader at the beginning of a conference is due largely to the men being under more or less of a strain. There is a feeling of restraint and formality which must be overcome as soon as possible. Various ways of breaking up the stiffness and silence were discussed, such as the shifting of topics and the raising of important questions for discussion. It was emphasized that a topic should be very quickly dropped when it is feund that no particular interest is aroused, and that it con- stitutes good procedure to change the topic or plans when- ever lack of interest shows the need of it. It might be stated that the cardinal principle of foreraanship training is that interest should transcend any other consideration. In the early part of the conference the discussion is steered or directed along the lines in which initial interest is shown. There are three stages in a complete program for the training of fororaen. 1 . 2 . 3 . Putting.over content or a series of objectives. Application 4 . I.Taintenance on the job. (Work too often stops here) of improved procedure in the plant. The first and second stages may be worked through effectively but maintenance is often lacking, and because of this fact results are often not permanent. How to make re- sults of lasting value v/ill be found in a study of mainte- mance . A number of questions were raised by members of the conference group in connection with certain phases of the general problem as touched upon in Mr, Gushman's pre- sentation. The following are a few of the more important questions, together with answers or comments by the differ ent participants: 3 Ques. Can an outside man teach foremen to analyze Jobs if he himself does not know the details of the jobs to be analyzed? Ans. Yes, if the developmental method is used. Ques. How can you determine whether or not the group is really interested? Ans. By the kind and amount of participation of the groups in discussions and by the behavior of the men. Ques. Is a preliminary visit by the leader to the plant necessary or expedient? Ans. IIo , not until later when the foremen invito the instructor as an indication of their interest. It was brought out that a preliminary visit by the instructor {presumably an outside man) in company with a plant official 'would tend to increase suspicion on the part of the foremen to bo trained. Ques. How can you overcome the antipathy of a foreman who resents "being trained"? Ans. By getting av/ay from the instructor - pupil re- lationship. A successful conference depends upon good leadership with this in view. This same antipathy is shown in the case of an efficiency man v/ho attempts to work out things in two weeks time. It contributes to the ex- planation of his failure to get results. In starting a conference it was brought out that the leader might well dispense v;ith such formal- ities as telling v/ho he is, where he is from, etc. It is better to start off by citing a case like the following*. In a certain plant there was a foreman v/ho had a gang of negro laborers. Hof was a rough customer and would curse and bellow at his men. Ho had, hov/over, one virtue, in that he himself had once been a common laborer and knev/ what a day’s work was, consequently he never permitted anyone to crowd him with more than his men could do. I’inally he left this plant and went to another plant as a gang foreman. Every one of his men follov/ed him. 4 The conferonce leader might at this point put forth the question as to what qualities of leadership this foreman showed. If the group docs not respond to this question it is well to try another approach. In fact it is better to drift into the question instead of asking it directly. The method used in fishing illustrates this very well. The amount of good a leader can do depends upon the amount of confidence he inspires. The men must feel that he is incapable of retailing their confidences to the management in a way that might embarrass them. It is well to get away from a rigid program for the conference. An analogy may be drawn as followsi If an iron plate is taken into the foundry and placed upon an irregular sand mould it will not fit, but will settle down, crushing the higher parts of the sand. The iron plate is like a rigid foreman training program, it is more productive of results to pour molten metal into the mold and preserve the original character of its contour. It is better to go in with a general objective that admits of a flexible treatment and then proceed to size up the group for discussion than to proceed rigidly with, let us say, a six hour course, or a topic such as Records and Reports. A rigid program for a conferonce that is con- ceived before hand is likely to be at fault in its appli- cation for a very fundamental reason. Because of certain local practices it might be found profitable to spend three days onaa subject in one plant and only five minutes on that particular subject in another plant. In one plant job analysis might be worth but five minutes while in another it might bo worth four or five days. Before the close of the morning session there wore distributed copies of The Report of the Llinneapolis Conference (Llisc. 282), and mimeographed notes on the training of prospective foremen. Afternoon Session The afternoon session started with a black- board presentation of five plans for organization as shown in the following charts; 5 Plan A Sducational Director Department Head D.H d[h 1 D, Foreman ' 1 1 p p p Application by Department Head IvIaintenancQ by Department Haad Plan B Educational Director Po reman P P P P 1 . V t / ^ Application and Maintenance by Supt. :'v > 6 Plan C Educational Director ' '’WunB' Application by Ed. Director Llaintcnance by Superintendent Plan D. Educational Director i Foreman on the job He calls conference as the need presents itself but he conducts no series or regular program. Educational Director assumes responsibility for carrying out entire program. I ■ >l ■ I < "i. m LAl lV.I I •'< j" ‘i "I I \ 7 Plan E Educational Eirootor or Conferonce Leader Porcraan's Conference Eept. Heads Conforoncc V/ On the job \'/ Application and maintenance by Eepartment Heads. Educational Eirector in advisory capacity. After a discussion it was agreed that while plans A, 3, and 0 could be put over by an outside man it was possible for an inside man to put over the entire five* Plan E mot v/ith more commondation than did plans A* B, C, and E. Further discussion ensued concerning v;hethcr it is easier ?/ithout authority to get the foreman or the Eepartment heads to come across. No decision was reached. y The afternoon session ended with a discussion of the two ways of breaking into the game of conducting a conference. The various methods were summed up under two headings: 1. By attending conference in an industrial plant to get the "Atmosphere.” 2. By attending intensive courses similar to this one or those offered at i.Iinncapolis for the past two summers. In response to a question as to ivhat our three Teacher Training Institutions were to do in this con- nection, it was said that they should train conference leaders, educational directors, and instructors. .•vl V"- ’r*' i - 9 A sreat deal of discussion centered aicirid the subject of measuriJip' statistically the result^3 of foreman training: conferences, Since intangible results in moraio, etc., were conceded to be most valuable, few of the men present felt thro steps to be determined in doing a job: 1. Determine what you are going to do. 2. Determine hov/ you are going to do it. Mr. Cushman related how the average man learns his job, by St.-. ting his own experience in being dropped into new Situations and having to learn to adjust himself mathout help from, others. Several men present substantiated this in their own cases. It was cited as the usual m.ethod where training has not been definitely provided for, through conferences, or some organized effort, to teach a nev^' man his job. The question vms raised from the school group as to the function in a foreman training program^ of the Teacher Training Institutions, the public schools, the industrial plant, and the State Departmient of Public Instruction. A full discussion v/as held over until later. The plant group likewise shev/ed a special interest in what to do when ^n educa ticncil prograni has arrived at the maintenance stage. This seemed to be a problem, in the ginds of the plant Educational Directors present. W^'le there was considerable discussion on this point, the mattei v/as held over for fuller discussion at a later time. A difference of opinion was voiced over the use of the ambition factor in urging foremiQn to take training. Every- one agreed that it had a place, but whereas one plant man believed in boldly holding it out to the men, several others urged caution and indirection as a safer method to employ, emphasizing rather, job pride in place of higher position i»r more pay. 11 How to put over the objectives determined upon with the executives' group was the problem taken up at this point. The list was placed side by side Vv'ith a parallell list of methods of attainment. Final Objective To secure intelligent co-operation betv/een Depart- ment heads and the Educational Director v|ith respect to the teacher training program. Sub. Objectives 1. To acquaint the Depart- ment heads vl th the aims and methods of the v/ork with the program. Suggested ways of putting over objectives 1. Conference with plan^ exectives (Peplicas of foremen training con- ferences). Reports of foremen's conferences. Information as to re- sults in other plants. 2. To put over the idea that training is a business proposition and not phil- anthropy. 3. To bring out the relative merits of different plans for training. 2. a. Analytical discussion in cases (Specific cases - generalization) b. Questions for discussion such as: Benefits to men Benefits to Company 3. (Page 56-63 Minneapolis Report) Information followed by discussion. (15 to 30 minutes only) Time allov^^ed would vary with individual cases. 4. To bring out the value of a continuous program. 4. Analytical discussion - cases . 5. To get Department heads to 5. AnalyticcO. discussion - see that permanent improve- cases, ment cannot be secured through holding a series of foremen's conf erence.s . 6. To get plant management to see its responsibil- ities with regard to the edu.cational program. 7. To develop ways in which Department heads and other plant executives can carry out these re- sponsibilities . 6. Analysis of program. 7. Discussion of program as anrlyzed. 'Ahen the seven sub objectives have been realized, then the final objective will have been reached. The group lagged somewhat in formulating the right-hand column above. It was brought out in this connection that this was typical of a real foreman training conference, and that had this been such a con- ference, it v'ould have been wise to drop the lagging subject until a m.ore propitious time, and immediately substitute a new topic. This list of ways of putting over objectives was taken to be absolutely fundamental, in order to fortify the men present v;ith selling points when they came to discuss the seven objectives v/hich have been accepted as covering the case. Reference w^as m.ade to pages 73 to 79 in the Minneapolis Report in connection with measuring quanti- tatively the results of foremen training conferences, it was again brought out that it is a practical im- possibility to get reliable statistics on the results of foremanship training conferences. One man present likened this situation to the difficulty in determining statistically the efficacy of such projects as national advertising and personnel v;ork in general. A. num.ber of men felt, hom^ever, M^at no plant executive would be impressed by any educational program that did not shov' up as being valuable in dollars and cents after a few years. It was pointed out at this time that some firms where foremanship training has been undertaken seemed to experience difficulty in getting a suitable supply of topics for a continuation of foremen con- ferences through club m'ork. Ques. How would you keep going if you were asked to put on a series of conferences? Eov^ scon v/ould you run out of meterial? How v/ould you proceed? - - Ans. Bo not prolong any conference longer than sixty to seventy iiours. It is wise at the conclusion of this time to give t?ie foremen a rest in order that they may make applications of the things learned during the conference. After a time it v/ould he well to get them together to discuss their prchlerns. They would no doubt be interested in taking tech- nical courses from time to time. furthermore a Foremen's Club could carry on the thread of inter- est which ran through ’the conference and thus keep it alive. (It was thought to be very much worth while to keep the conference idea alive). There seems little likelihood of ever coming to a point in a plant educational program where educational work would need to be abandoned, because changes in personnel would be likely to demand a continuous effort on the part of an Educational Director. It is well at intervals to bring in an inspirational speaker on a live subiect. Instructor training courses would be expected to follow as a part of the whole program. The accompanying curve may be taken as indicative of what is likely to happen to the growth and improvement in a group of foremen on the job. This curve shev^'s that considerable improvement may be expected to follow a series of conferences, but it is too much to expect that such an improvement would be permanent unless some means vv'’ere pro- vided for maintaining the improved situation and thus avoid a slump back to the initial situation. The job of the Educational Director is, therefore, to put over his per- manent program in such a way that the maintenance line will be somewhere near the top of the peak of temporary improve- ment follovvfing the initial stages of the work. It WS.S further stated that too much of an attempt to r.easure results of conference work would prob bly lead the foremen to think that the whole idea of foreman con- ferences was, alter all, open to suspicicn. 14 - V/odnesday, October 18, 1923 A list of eight available reports on foreman training conferoncos was posted, and each person present was given copies as follows: 1. Champion Fibre, Canton, IJ. C. 2. Big Stone Gap, Virginia. 3. U. 3. Industrial Alcohol. 4. Bverett Pulp and Paper Go., Bverett, '.Vash. 5. Hutledge limber Go., Ooeur d'.klene, Idaho. 6. Portland Oregon (Pulp and Paper) 7. Romy Slectrio Company 8. Hew York Employing printers. It was brought out that school men should be interested in this conference because of their opportunity and resi^onsibility for aiding the smaller scattered indus- tries, as well as the larger highly organized ones v^rhich can afford to go into conference v/ork for themselves in their ovm extensive plants. There is also a need for getting the possibilities of special service before in- dustrial groups. Industry is ripe for real leadership in indus- trial education. This is a throe cornered responsibility of the State, the city, and industry, When a public scho:-l man can come to industry with a v;oll formulated plan of feasible co-oporatijn and instruction ho v/ill be welcomed at the front door instead of being merely tolerated at the back door. It is up to the school man to educate plant men in regard to the possibilities for training. Industry needs training as a stablizing influence This is a benefit to the community and can be brought ao'ut through proper leadership. IndustiY^ wants such leadership and will co-operate v;ith the school man if he has the go^ds I.Ir. Cushman believes that the x^odoral Board for Vocational Education has an important fui ction in spreading the gospel of vocational education, and by developing its research facilities with the idea of furnishing service and stimulus to the States. The procedure at this point chaged into a demon- stration of a real foreman oonxcrcncc. 15 Case Presented ?o roman a Per cm an B i.Ifg. Dept. Repair Dept, Situation; Jobs irl and both need repair men at the same time. Poreman A finds that foreman B has assigned two mon to job #1, and has apparently not provided any immediate ser- vice for job #2. Poreman A is dissatisfied and v;ants action on job fZ, He tells one man to leave job pi and begin in job p2, which creates a situation. How might trouble have been avoided Kind or measure I.Ie thods of co-operation involved 1. Po reman A might have 1. H asked B for infor- mation, 2. B^s men might have 2. V refused to take orders from A. 3, B might have in- 3. H formed A vote as to Preferance 1 , 12 2 . 0 3. 0 4. Pororaan A register 4. V kick with Supt. 5. Po reman A hands off 5. H of B’ s men. 4. 0 5. (Combine ^ v/ith one/ 6. Standard procedure 6. 6 . 2 It was pointed out that this vote did not resemble a vote on the same subject among plant executives. Usually the latter vote first for p4. 'but can be made to see that pi is preferable. I 16 i^ti 0 ro sting discussion on co-oporution v/ois par- ticipated in freely by the raen present. It was pointed out that in a conference, each man is entitled to his own oplninu. Plants need foremen because it is necessary to have a minor executive on the job who can use his head and make decisions for a group of workmen. An interesting interchange of opinion followed the question of having specified v/orking rules. It v/as felt that rules should be reduced to a minimum. Absurd situations often result from too much red tape following an excess of rules. Q • Should one foreman give orders to another foreman’s men? -Ans . Ho, except in emergencies . or to_ prevent v/aste. It is an unv/rT^ten law’ in'Trjdustry that ” interference is taboo. There is no learning v/ithout activity. As an example: if men sit in a conference inert and with no show of participating , there is likely to be very little growth on their part. As a general policy, questions brought up for discussion should not be voted on. If, hov/ever, a wrong notion seems to prevail it is well to keep plying cases in order to readjust the thinking of the group. The conference has its main usefulness in getting foremen to think. It was pointed out that if one man in the group should start to monopolize the floor that the other men present would take '• care of him in their ov/n peculiar way by saying ”Av/I sit down, give someone else a chance." The question was then raised as to how you v/ould handle a case where a wrong decision had been voted for . V/ould it be best to bring the matter up later in a different v;ay? The opinion of the raen present seemed to be that it would be well to do so, but that only cases that had been well thought out should be used as an illustration. Hr, Cushman at this point told about the mental strain under ’vhich a conference leader works, even if he appears to be sitting by and not doing very much. It is not easy, he maintained, to hold Dack and let a group of raen bang around on an elementary question. However, it is^ necessary to do so in order to give the men time to think their O'vn way through to a sound conclusion. There ai'e only two kinds of conference methods that have been developed thus far. 1. - Case method ^ 2. - Question method Analysis usually accompanies both methods - 17 - One difficulty with the question method, is that foremen are usually very concrete minded, and do not respond to such an abstraction as, "v/hat is co-operation?”. In order to illustrate the difficulty of getting a good responoe from the question method, Ilr, Cushman asked several members of the group, ”How does bav/ling out a man increase his interest?" The response to this question vjas not good. It seemed to show how the case raethhd might have been better used than a question to bring out the desirable point involved. In the case method a group of cases is either cited or drawn out of the conference. Hach case or group of cases is expected to illustrate the various points to be put over. The neEt topic considered by the group was a switch back to co-operation. The mimeographed Supplement to 303-A was distributed, and a few cases discussed as noted there. #2 proved to be of lettle interest. It was con- sequently dropped after the approved fashion. IJext case #3 was discussed. This brought on a discussion of how to handle cases of "cussedness". Discussions on co-operation were said to be freer where the group is entirely made up from within one plant, Q ues , How do you broach the subject of co-operation for discussion? Ans , The men usually bring up the subject by citing a .case, and asking if the leader thinks that so and so did right. In discussing #5 it was noted that the leader should never express an opinion on such a topic. In using Supplement 305-A it might be noted that the cases and questions involved do not require an unanimity of opinion. They are used only to provoke discussion, The follov;ing figure shows how the leader progresses in the conference; Outside '■ - Gases from men Cases A \ - V# V ■$ I T ! \ I A case cited by the leader is supposed to bring out cases from the group, and the conference is a succes only to the extent to which this is brought about. ’Vhen case ^9 was discussed many others were cited by the men present. This was a good illustration of hov/ the case presented by the leader can bring results. . Is there a change in the type of foremen from the old man who said, "I am boss"? Ans . All of the plant men present answered, yes, a decided change , s ♦ If you find a man’s weakness should you try to bring up a case to fit his condition? Ans , Hr. Cushman said that he did not want to know the raen*s weaknesses. (Sv/itched to interest factor) 0,ues , ;Vhy do men loaf? Ans . Not always because of laziness, but rather from lack of incentive. An illustration was tuen given from the pottery industry in \vhich a great saving was effected by allowing the men to profit financially by refraining from carelessly breaking saggers ► Another instance of how to correct the slacker element in a gang was related. In this )ase a slacker would be temporarily assigned to a very difficult job so that he would soon be only too glad to return to his regular work and hold up his end* The question arose at this point as to whether it is legitimate to switch topics in a conference. It was thought to be all right so long as the discussion kept within the objectiv “'t ^' 1 , ■ / >. : I'A'ii. i* *fU . - -v^.- -/ - i-' ‘>..f -b -1 . t v .:t (|(0f^ f(' 4 ' ■■■I* 1 * -« j.. ^fc.. -of ,!s '"€m . VW, -0 ■V'. ■••^ ' 'Sti. ,’ * ^ -jj* '’’4 ./ ji, I »* Tt’ i'CiotSa ■ ' ,ii : f, ■; * *♦■ f 'l.'-w I, V'’\l' ■’ ■ ■ » . ,;, A '-^ 21 It v;as mentioned JDr. Struck that in the report of the Virginia Poly 'i'lech conference, emphasis vjas placed upon the subject of carelessness. On the other hand, job analysis was given major consideration in the Minneapolis report. The supposed reason tor this difference in emphasis v^/as that the reports covered tvi/o difterent meetings, and represented the needs of tv\/o different groups. While the Minneapolis report laid out a rather definite course fo r conf erenc e leaders, it was stated that it would not be feasible to lay out a hard and fast couise for foremen in a similar manner, since it would be likely to defeat the very purpose of the conf erenc e. ^UB^. Are vi/e to understand that it is undesirable to organize a definite course for a given group of foremen? A ns . Hot at first for conference purposes. The definite courses V'ould come at a later stage. A well defined course does no t help the experienced leader, provided he keeps his objectives clearly in mind. It might more-over involve a Waste of time, since it is unlikely that any such couise would ever be adhered to. One of the participants at this point said that he be- lieved a foreman training course should be v^ell organized but flexible, for after all any topic was merely a vehicle for obtaining desirable by-products. It was observed-by another, however, that you should be ready and willing to junk your program if circumstances seemed to warrant. Ques . (To Mr. Milner) Did you pick your best foremen for your conference or did you purposely mix in a few who needed help? Ans . We mixed in three in the first conference, and four in thB second conference who needed help. I 4 & I -'tf f V 22 4 In starting; a conference the hlg ohjectjive for the first meeting is to get the ccnfidence of the men, anid get them to see that this is a man to nun propositi cn with free inter^;h;.;nge of t bought . It is always well to let the men get things off their chost , hut it is the part of v/isdom to steer them aWay from any subject when it begins to partake of the nature of unprofitable discussion. Such an initial conference might have, as its general theme, such a subject as "Carelessness,” or "The giving of orders." ilKam':’ le s Q ue s . Should the foreman always indicate who is to do the job'll An s . Yes. The discussion brought out the fact also that he should acid what the joh is, when it is to be wanted, and vifhere it is to be done. a careless fellow handling some fragile article that you v/ere afraid he might break would you call out "Heyl don’t drop that." Ans . ITo. (The discussion would then bring out the reason why) The discussion then centered about vi/hether it constitutes a complete order to say to a man "Get me out three pieces of 2" shafting, 6’ long, with the ends nicely squared off." After considerable discussion Mr. Cushman likened the meeting to a typical foreman meeting. If the subject of carelessness should be ekesen it would be possible to list out examples under two headings, permanent and temporary. If the subject of leadership should be chosen an excjnple might be alluded to similar to the following: If a foreman vmnted to get a pipe laid in a wet, muddy ditch would he get better results cut o f his men by denning riibber boots and starting aheaci, saving to the men "come on bevs let’s get in the pipe", or would he secure better results by standing on the, bank and directing the operation? An instance was related by on© of the men in which production in rolling copper bars had been increased by giving the men a certain "stunt" that should constitute the work for one shiit. The amount was increased from time to time until a very satisfactory amount of work was turned out by the shiit. By co- operating among themselves and making every little item count it Vi/as found that the men shortened thei r working day considerably, and then had the rest of the time for their own purposes. 'Quo s ♦ Bid the men resent the fact that you were getting more work out of them? Ans , It was thought no t. t > 7 'M ^l-O- f) ■ 7 ' r ' :.■*/ ■ M-l ^ .J^' • .r, 'iS' ■ <.i' r I \ •’ ;. ' ■ ■ ^ i'' , ! ? . /' Cij«’ t '*<> v'l W ‘ ^This question called for an interoliange of opinion "between the plant representatives present. After a time the discussion seemed to drav>/ away from the subject under consideration, and Mr, Cushman illustrated how the leader migM , in such cases, switch back to the main topic. Ques, How Can you draw out the reluctant man in a conference who is slow of speech, but v>;ho has a wealth of content to contribute? An s . The leader should study this situation and draw the man in as best he can. If the leader is an inside man he might quietly, outside of the meeting, give the men a tip to help keep the confereince going, or in the meeting he might address the person, by saying, ’’Say Bill/ you know some- thing about this, how about it." It is necessary to observe the psychological time and to avoid embarrassing the ma.n by asking questions that he may not be able to answer. Sometimes it is necessary tc size the man up V "because no two human beings are alike. Mr, Dennis made the point that it was probably unwise to attempt to get the Sarnie amount of participation out of all of the men present, as this would be nothing more or less than an attempt to over-come individual differences and Vt/ould be cons equen tly unpro fi tabl e , U uos . Do the men ever call the loader by his first name? Ans . Mr. Cushrnan answered that never in his experience have the men in the conference dropped the formality of saying Mr. Cushman . The folio vdng chart may the amount of participation by ference. It is an interesting \ nether or not some one or tv>./o be used effectively in checking up the different persons in the con- and rather effective way of testing persons are monopolizing the floor. Overhead Question Questions In introducing the idea that some very definite oh- jectives should be kept in mind, it was said that no one would buy a ticket without a destination in view. The following outline Was given at this point: I . Organization of Foreman Trainin g Work . 1. Size of group. 2. Makeup of group. 3. Time and place - Advantages and disadvantages. I I . Methods of Conducting Work . 1. Case method. 2. Question method. 3. Analysis and its relation to the work under each method , III. Qualifications of instructer or leader. In conducting a foreman training conference the leader should, above all, make a strong start and finish. A story was told to illustrate this. A band leader said that he alv'ays planned to start the piece in good shape and end up impressively, and that if this were done it didn’t make sc much difference how the middle went. It v>Jas pointed out that while a conference may seem rather disorganized at times, there is behind it a well organized and thought out plan of objectives. A green conference .T ' ' M ■■ ♦ i I I," n C" f V ; . ■‘^!.‘ k*' -1 ..y ' I r i»,tii’ g6 - loader vill lean mere 'heavily upSiti an* organ! plan than v'ill the man with more expeiienee, bnt in any case it was coinceded that the leader shcnld make a plan for the good it would do him, even if he disregarded it in actual practice. IJr, Cushman asked Dr. Struck concerning the plan that he had tcllowed in the conference at the Collins plant. In ansv/er Dr. Struck said that he first listed out the things to he covered, then he tried to stick to the topics, even to the extent of having notes, to which he did net hesitate to lefer from time to time. The four steps in teaching were listed out at this point. 1, Preparation. 2. Presentation. 3. Application. 4, Testing. During the two iveeks foreman training conference in a plant (1) preparation, and (2) presentation vail he taken care of. After the intensive conference is over and tho mainten^ce stage has been reached then (3) application and (4) testing will he carried out. The question of the responsibility of the State Department of Public Instruction for holding conferences with conference leaders was brought up. The opinion seemed to be that there were several factors to be taken into account. In the first place there are two diametrically opposed types of plant executives, the one who wishes to train his own men, and the other who desires outside help. The large plant is in better shape to handle its own foreman training program than is the small plant. In the latter case some interested public agency, such as the public schools with the aid of the State Department, v/ill need to perform the educational servic® which these small plants, because of their size, cannot hope to maintain. Several different kinds listed as fo Ilou s : Plan 1 Mixed Plant Group Leisure time 3-5 houis per week. Self selected group Voluntary attendance. of groups were discussed and Plan 2 Uni t Plant Group 50-50 men’s time Company’s time. All on men 's time One meeting a week (2 hrs.) Some pressure to seeur© attend anc e. *.■ ' V, I ■ ff '■ 1 ^ w .-i'-.'t't -V ■ . ■. '^dt - Ir; i;,;:i . i : :jm Ml. - 26 Pl an 5 Uni t Pl a nt Group Company time 2 to 50 hours per week. 30 to 2 weeks Selected "by Company. Plan 4 Unit Plamt Croup Company time 1 hour a week for one year. Attendance expected hy Gompany . In response to a question as to where the intensive plan of foremanship training originated, Mr- Cushman related the following: The State .Director of Vocational Education wanted to help the oil industry 'because it was so prominent, and because appaiently nothing had been done for it in the V7ay of industrial education in tile vi/hole State. This State Director asked Mr. Cushman to meet a group of persons who showed an interest in the subject. This opportunity came at a dinner given by the local superintendent of schools. V/hen Mr. Cushman placed the idea before them in a twenty minute talk the only person present who shewed any great amount ’of interest was a prominent oil man. He readily accepted the idea, and offered his plant fo r a demonstration course. It is probable that the intensive plan is better in some respects than the plan of giving one or two hours a week over a longer period of time. In weekly meetings the intervening time is likely to prove an ineffi- ciency factor. It was pointed out that there have been a number of foreman training conferences throughout the country, and that they have been rather uniformly successful. In any plan of this nature there is likely to be, sooner or later, one which cannot be con- sidered an entire success. Cne of the men present observed that there wore three elements in a successful plan. Part of the work can be done by talking, and part by writing, but co-5peration cannot be secured by things you put on paper. It is well to put over some things on paper that you do not discuss, then you can go into the conference. One of the prominent men from industry present made a strong assertion, that industry rniiist soon actively train apprentices. Oues . If industry is to select men to send to a Teacher Training Institution, who v^fill it send? Ans » This question was answered by three of the industria-1 men as fc*^llows; The first said he would send his Assistant Supervisor of Apprentices; the second said he would send a Chemical Engineer; and the third would send a Grenoral Foreman who is a technical school graduate. 27 In each case they were piched because of out- standing personal qualities. They would be expected to gain the ability to do a first class job v/ith a foreraan conference. They would be valuable because of their in- dustrial perspective. Another type of man might know a great deal about it but not be able to put it over. You can fill a man up with information, but it won’t help him to do anything. Huch interest centered around the question of how you can judge the good done in a foreraan training conference, whether it has accomplished anything of value to the plant, and how the plant executives are to know whether any results have been obtained. In the accompanying chart the curves labelled labor turnover, costs, scrap, and production v;ill shov/ the expected tendency as a result of a training program. :;r. Barritt, of the //estinghouse Company, submitted this chare as an example of the sort of proof that would impress manage- ment , Suggested Curve of Results that Right be Expected After Ray (The point at v'hich the training began) !>< I 1 ! I . 'Tr vi i I ‘ I 1 \ A ' ' ^ rf t / V lA •.- M*A .^■> « t V ^ 1«W' 20 Que3 . (To i;r. Ililnor) 'Jould you bo vfilling to say o,t the end of the year, r;it]iout px'oof , that the coiiierence in youx' plant had, or had not boon a Guccoca? Ans , Yes, decidedly in the mattor of co-operation, Tv/o other persons hald that it shov^ed in less accidents and better service. Quo s . ilo'7 can it be sho '/n that this is due to foreman training? Ans . ( hy hr. Cushman) I would not try to sho'-' by measurement. You can see the results. A continuous program xvas defined as demanding some means of sustaining the interest which has been aroused during the intensive foreman training conference. The pos- sibilities of a number of consecutive intensive programs are not very great. I'r. Ash spoke of the Philadelphia idea, in- volving social entertainiiient among the foremen. He felt that while on the surface there were no tangible results in terms of the job, that after all there was an Uiider-current that reflected better co-onoration in the plants I'/hore the foremen vjere located. A very inportant turn in the conference took place at this point. Dr. Hurrell said that ho considered it very vague to say "judged by results." Cince results are neces- sary as a selling argument it v/as , by common consent, agreed to list out such results as mi>ght be reasonably expected. These v/ere listed as immediate results and later results, and were checked as to whether they ’7ere of a tangible or in- tangible nature. This is the first time within the ]:no\7ledge of any of tho persons present that such a list was ever pre- pared. Actual or Expected Hesults ■ ■■ ■ !■ ■ ■ I I- - ^ I I I j — Inmiediate Hesults, such as Latjer Results, such as T Saving in waste (material and labor) I Co-operation I Better appreciation of job I Better ^morale I I.Iore interest in the job I Increased satisfaction I Better appreciation of responsibilities (Stock- care of equipment -hand- ling men , e tc . ) I Increased job pride ' " ■ ' ■ T Reduction of turnover T Rrbwer accidents I D'esire for further ini- s' provement I ^Better use of leisure time I ‘^Improved procedure on tho f job in discharging re- sponsibilities. T Impro\^ed quality of product T Increased production I Increased loyalty to Co rap an I Better handling of the gree . ^■'orker Decreased costs ( includes several others.) T 29 Actual 03 r Ex pec ted Resultc (Con,) Immediate Results such as Later Results, such as T Rev/er errors in issuing T Deterioration of equipment and carrying out orders I Better v;orking conditions T I,[ore correct reports 1 Better training on job T - Tangible I - Intangible Friday, October 20, 1922. The meeting started with a discussion of the Foremen’s Club held in connection with the Philadelphia Industrial Asso- ciation. This Club meets once a month, in the evening, and is consequently in the nature of what has been discussed as a "follow-up or maintenance program." It does not take the place of the intensive foremanship conference in plants. lir. Ash has been prominent in this Association, and gave the group here as- sembled some interesting information concerning the inception of the plan and its subsequent history. A number of plant executives have reacted differently to the idea of educating foremen or other employees. Some dis- cussion at this point centered around the follov/ing instance: A certain plant executive wished to help production in his plant and he conceived the idea of attacking the problem through education. In his own peculiar way he secured the services of an English teacher from the local high school to lecture on Shakespeare. There was considerable difference of opinion among the men present as to whether this man would be likely to get results, or whether he merely had the kernel of a good idea which v»;as being carried out along the wrong lines. It was thought probable that any scheme should be judged by what it is expected to accom- plish. It was pointed out that "gutter talk" in a foremen’s conference 'las not fu idamentally necessary. This brought out an interesting discussion, because it is a well knov/n fact that language more forceful than elegant is quite usual in foreman conferences, and from the standpoint of foreman teacher training has been considered as "one of the tricks in the bag". The basic idea involved has, of course, been to place every man at ease. However it was thought that the conference leader does not 30 necessarily need to descend to meet foremen, ^he average foreman is just as smart, and has just as great potentialities as the leader hut, i^erhaps, has not had the same advantage in education. There is a need for a new type of fororaanship, and the conference idea is expected to promote the securing of a hotter type. The old type of foreman often resorted to strong language, feeling that it v/as a part of his duty in getting the proper amount of work out of his men. In this connection Ilr. Cushman stated that if he should go into a plant to conduct a conference and there was not subsequently less ’’cussing out”, etc., he would consider his work a failure. In conducting a conference it is a mistake to assume coarseness or to act snobbish. It is certain that there should be no forced profanity or vulgarity. Pl*ofanity can be Classified under tv/o Headings. 1. There is the man v/ho has to change a tire out in a hot road where the dust is 6" deep. Then there is the man who lifts a heavy load down in an uncomfortable position who is under great stress and strain. In both of these cases the, average human being is likely to give vent to strong expressions as a safety valve. At this point there was a discussion of the length of time it should reasonably take for the first foreman conference in any plant. It v/as thought that fifty to seventy hours would be needed, to be followed by some sort of a maintenance program. Hr. Cushman was of the opinion that no man would be justified in going into a plant to show what he could do with the confer- ence idea in less than thirty hours. It was further thought probable that he would not be justified in stretching out any conference beyond ninety hours. Ques . Is it well for a leader to say to foremen "vou linow more about this than I do?” Is it belittling the leader in the foremen's minds? Ans . It is often necessary to admit that you don’t knov/ as much about the technical side of the job as the foreman. The leade?? Vvould onl^r lose ground by assuming to the point of bluffing that he knew as much about certain things as the foreman. 1. Another kind of profanity is the sort that will be used to humiliate other persons, and is not to be considered in the same class with the kind men- tioned in the other list. '51 I.n in.nov'xtlon was introduced at this stage. Hr. Cushman nnnouiced that he would irnporsonate a typical plant GxecutivG , end asked Hr. a, a member of the conference , to take the part of a man who has come in to sell him the fore- man braining idea. iJote: - Your secretary has attempted to reconstruct, from such notes as he was able to get, the main points of t]ie conversation. Hr. A. I’he Local Board of Education desires to extend its services to adults who have entered employment, and wishes to place its service.s at jrour command. i!r. Cush. Bo you mean that my men need more schooling? I think my men are getting along very nicely. I don’ t see that they have any particular needs along this line. Hr. A. You are one of the big tax-payers in this district and have a right to the services of the public school in furthering the interests of your men. Hr. Cush , Bo I understand that you are proposing that 1 send mj:^ men to school? Hr. A. Hot necessarily to a school building, we are willing to put on anj!^ classes that you need in any place, or at any time that is convenient to you. Perhaps you are not aware that there are special funds from State and pederal sources which have been pro- vided for training v/orkmen after they have entered employment. He desire that the benefits of the Smith-Hughes and State legislation be made avail- able to industry. Hr. Cush. This is very interesting, but I have been in the habit of training my own men. The training that is valuable for them to have is furnished here in the plant. Hr. A. I can see that you are interested in your men or you would not be giving them anv training at all. Of course it is our idea of education that no man has reached his maximum development. Lir. Gush. Yes, but you know I am instinctively against letting in outsiders who may upset my organisation. Bow take the foremen for instance, they are the very heart and soul of our organization. I wouldn’t for the world think of letting an outsider come in here with radical ideas and play havoc v/ith ray plant. As it is I am satisfied as to their loyalty and don't ^7ant it interfered with. 32 Hr, A. Yes, but at the present time I doubt if they are very much interested in each other. There is a chance for friction to develop between foremen of different departments. A course in foreman training v/ould get them interested in each other .. and decrease friction, Hr. Gush. Oh, well I for that matter we have a meeting now every two weeks. I have all of the foremen meet with me and we go o\'er things and have a complete understanding. There is no friction in this organ- i zation. Hr. A. These conferences would develop ideas about health and safety, and ’would be valuable to your plant. Hr . Gush , You know I am afraid of these new f angled ideas. We are getting along prettj’’ well nov;, and I don’t see v/hy I should take the chance of destroying the peace of mind of ray foremen. The first thing I knov; half of them will be running off and leaving me in a mess. Hr . A . I am afraid that v/hen you think of a school man you do not realize that the man I have in mind is the industrial instructor who was secured from industry itself to teach in the school. He under- stands the conditions under ’which men work, and is in no sense a stranger to general industrial con- ditions . Hr . Cush . All this is very v;ell, but let’s get down to an exact plan. Just what is it that you propose to do? Hr. A. In starting this vork with your plant I should like to have you select twenty of your foremen to meet in a conference with an experienced leader v/hora v/e can furnish. They would meet at a time which could be arranged, presumably on plant time. Hr , Gush . Well, how about the cost of this? You know it costs money for me to take ray foremen away from their work and let them confer as you say. Hr. A' On the other hand, it would actually save you money in the long run. Hr . Cush . I dontt get your idea exactly. Do I understand you to say that you would send an outside man here to conduct a school with my men? I don’t see how an outside man, o doesn't Imow my plant, could come here and teach my foremen anything about their jobs Hr. A. I do not mean that this would be really a school in the sense that the teacher v;ould actually instruct the men in the details of ..their jobs. The purpose would be to hold a conference in which the leader steers the thinking of the men, but in which they do most of the talking. ; ' ‘ -y f 1 ■[ - - iir. Cujjh. You Dight thin]: that you v/oro sending a oompetent leader, ou.t I think I 'vould rather have iny tux^cr- intendent in the meeting to chGclc u^:) on him and oGO that he rasn^t giving them some ideas v/hich vrould bo dangerous to us. Hr. A Of course, you should be kept informed about v;hat is going on, but it has been our ezcperience that the men do not unbend and speak their minds v;hen the boss is around. .■-X . Gush. OhI my men aren't afraid to talk in front of me, they express themselves very freely. ,/e under- stand each other perfectly. I Ir . A . 7e v/ould rather that the at these conferences. management not be present Cush. I do not yet see how an outside man could knov; enoughtabout my business to come in here and teach my foremen. By the way, is this scheme like this efficiency expert business? They certainly do cause trouble. I don't want to get into anything more like that. Things are running pretty smoothly novr with my foremen, and I certainly would hate to have them tinkered with. Just what topics do you take up, any way, in these conferences? Bo you discuss ’vage systems? Hr, A. I don’t think you need to fear anything of that sort. ,7e would send you a man whose experience has led him to appreoiate these points you mention, and you would find that he would be v^ery discreet in talking on dangerous subjects. His idea ivould be to bring out such topics as co-operation and secure better human relationships in the plant. Hr. Gush, /hat are his views on the labor question? Hr. A, He is absolutely neutral on this point. It does not do to take sides in these conferences. Hr. Cush, Your scheme may all be very well, but who has tried it? Is this a new thing you are asking me to try out? Hr. A. It has been tried in a number of places throughout the country. Two conferences have been held at the Hammermill Paper Gorapany at Erie , and one has been held in a community nea.r here. that they were Hr. Gush. .That evidence do you have I suppose you hav^e letters from what they thought about it and that willing to have me write to them to as to hov/ they felt concerning it. a Gucces n V these people tellin«' you v;ould be satisfy mysell • f 4 I j I • III / } i 'I Cl< i 34 '■/hy wo v/ould be very glad to have you write to thoa. You Indioate to do vory clearly thao you have some intex’est in the liiatter. I note tha.t ybu have the welfare of your men at heart. You say that this scheme has boen tried in many places throughout the country. How many? I choald say twenty or thirty, and there appears to have been universal satisfaction regarding them. How long would you Luggost that you have these men togetlier for a conference? For about two weeK;c, of four or five hours a day. Is two \7eeks all that is to it? After the two weeks conxerenoe was ever some such program as that being carried on by the Foremen's Club of the Philadelphia Industrial Association might be tried, (C:-i/3s discus/iion of plan) ’/Tell, I still feel a I”' ttle leary about such new fangled ideas. Phey tend to make men dissatisfied. Have you ever heard of any trouble being stirred up through one of these conferences? I would like to see your man. ETC It was pointed ou'i'- that this was the sort of re- action that might be expeofccu from certain types of executives. The group held a short discussion on the merits of a selling plan as up by kr. Ash, It was pointed out that a busy executive might not have time to listen to such a long story. It was thought to be better for the person selling the pro- position to introduce the subject by saying ”I should like to have Ifive minutes of your time in which to put this proposition before you," Ilany executives would not interrupt as much as Cushman did in the foregoing dialogue. One man said hla President would be likely to listen attentively until the person selling the proposition was through and then would start to fire questions at him. After a short intermission Hr. Cushman staged another selling demonstration with Hr. HcOarthy assuming the role of salesman. Ij:. HcGarthy started out by asking for five minutes in which to explain the proposition. She dialogue was, from that time on. similar to the one noted before. Ur, A. Hr. Gush. Hr. A . Hr. Gush. Hr. A. Hr . Gush . Hr. A. Hr . Gush . r ■I ^ f V V V, % , ‘I • • ;» L V ^ ' r*-' I ' V - -A';*' i'r ■l.\ X *• , V. i' : { f » ■» ' ^ ' '• « V At the conclusion of this selling talk there \;as an expression from tlie xTien present to the effect that these to, Iks had been very good. There v/as one notion, however, that might have been stressed more in both, talks. It v/as that foremen all have certain things in common regardless of the plant in which they work. T'or example, they all have the problem of handling men, of keeping down costs, and similar considerations. Since the conference deals rather with such phases instead of the technical aspects of the foremen’s jobs it is much easier to Siiov/ how an outside man can really come in and make a contribution. It was pointed out that different executives will regard a selling program from different angles. Several examples were cited to illustrate this fact. One executive, who was particularly insistent that he be shown tangible results v/as sold as follov/s: He was asked if they had a chemical laboratory in the plant. Upon finding that there cellent lab- oratory, extensively equipped, in charge of high priced ex- perts, the conference representative said "You are v/illing to pay high prices for expert chemists to experiment in order to secure a better production for you. You do not demand of them ahead of time that they guarantee this, that, or the other result. You are confident that since they are experts they will v/ork effectively to secure you the best results obtainable. V/hy then, are you not willing to accept an expert trainer of conference leaders on the same basis?" At this point there was a discussion on the function of the State Department of Public instruction in the matter of foreman training. This brought out a statement from the members of the Vocational Bureau present as to the legal status of the Department, and the extent of the present pro- gram in the public schools of the State. (Purther discus- sion later) Pive different plans were presented at this time. These arc all variations of the main idea, and represent actual cases in practice in the various cities and btates. Plan I. (Being worked out in several States) 1. Demonstration conference by expert from State agency. 2. Pol low-up by plant program. 3. Instructor training service by state. 4. Expert advice regarding permanent program by State representatives. Plan II. (Virginia and other States) State Qumploys expert who is available for educational service in industries. Local men are developed to extend this service to industry locally. » - ? IK • I ^•1 \ 0 9 \ 36 Plan III. ( I'hiladelphia and other cities) General program is doi^eloped locally. Classes held in the evening as a part of evening school program. Plan IV. { Ilassachusetts and other States) State offers training for leaders in foremen training work. Product of this activity carries on v/ork, mostly in industry. State does not do foreman training. Plan V 4 (Several cities in Ohio, lachigan and other States.) Local schools have conference leaders availaole for service, A vote was taken first among the industrial men present as to vrhich of the five plans they vn uld prefer. This was follov;ed hy a similar vote among the school men present. The vote was practically unanimous in favor of Plan I . \7e have agreed that an outside man can go into a plant and put on a foreman training conference. This re- quires that outside men he trained for this purpose. Can the Teacher Training Institutions train leaders of such con- ferences if their men have never conducted a conference with foremen themselves? In answer to this question a number of points v/ere discussed. It was brought out that the first man who put on a conference obviously had no training. One of the repre- sentatives of a Teacher Training Institution said that he considered teaching experience a considerable asset, and he rather favored the idea that an expert teacher could, by the possession of his peculiar skill and knowledge, function in conducting conferen'^es of foremen ^ 7 ithout specific training for this purpose. One of the plant men stated that he con- sidered an AL foreman initially better equipped than an A1 teacher, because ox bis knowledge of the requirements of in- dustry and his pre summed skill in handling men. It was the consensus of opinion that representatives of Teacher Training Institutions would have to conduct a conference of foremen before they would be able to effectively train conference leaders. Hr. Barritt of the V/estinghouse Electric Company Gumrxed up the attitude of industry as follows: Industry has certain requirements that have been thrust upon it. It has problems and knows v/hat they are. It is constantly facing changes which happen over night, and which are impossible to foresee. Industry realizes that education is a proper means by whic}'. the level of intelligence of the workman can be raised. It desires that this b^- brought about. ■ 3 » i •m > • ) t .• . • r ; .-P I- . . • •“ i * '... . f'^r* t r» .! A -T' s 37 Industry and the schools are fo-r apart in Ideas and ideals. Industry needs the refining influence of the schools. He believes that the State Depc.rtraont of Public Instruction should formulate the most efficient plan pos- sible to help industry in the process of readjustment to its ever changing conditions. He favored the v/ork the State Depp.rtment of Public Instruction is no'v doing tov/ard the improvement of foremen on the job. If a Department can formulate a plan which is effective it v/ill not have to peddle it, he believed. Industry is looking for leader- ship along educational lines, and a guiding force is required that this end may be attained. An adequate program v/ill be formulated by an evolutionary process, and can be arrived at only as a matter of growth. Qugs . (By Hr. Dennis) Is the State Department of Public Instruction justified in having con- ferences like this? Ans . The men from industry present were very pos- itive that it was not only justifiable, but, as one man put it, they should have one every week. A question was raised as to whether the public school men were properly equipped to exert real leadership in the matter of foremanship training. It was pointed out that the teachers who teach industrial subjects in the public schools should be well equipped to do this, because they have, in almost every case, been recruited from industry itself. It is common practice for the States to require that industrial teachers shall have had six to eight years of practical experience before they become acceptable as teachers. (Discussion continued as noted on page 35) There was considerable discussion as to whether the local school district or the State Department should approach industry for the purpose of stimulating foreman- ship training. Hr. Dennis made it clear that the State always worked through the local district, and that the local school men v/ere never short circuited in this matter, Q^-QS . In a State v/kere practically no industrial train- ing work is going on would the State Department be justified in going into a district and putting on a foreman training conference? 38 Anc. Hr, Cushman commentod on this question by pointing out that the Smith-Hughes law provides for making studies and investigations in industrial education. He believed that an effective way to make ai ch studies and investigations • ie for the Federal Board and the State Department to go directly into industry, where the occasion demands, and demon- strate by conducting foreman training conferences, or any other desirable activities to the end that a further development might grow out of these demons strations. J'r. Dennis voiced his belief that the main function of the Department of Education in in- dustry v;as to exert leadership v;here needed, and that it was only a minor function to do so-called police work after the program had been started. One of the teacher training men present voiced his ISelief that the Federal and State Educational forces could be better utilized in promotional work than by actually conducting classes. He also pointed out that it did not appear to be the function of the Teacher Training Institutions to go into plants and conduct foreman training conferences. In commenting on this statement, one of the men pre- sent pointed out that it altogether depends upon the motive back of the States (Teacher Training Insti- tutions included) in attempting this vo rk. If it should be the purpose of the conference to "sell” a new industry it is entirely justifiable. A reference V7as made to the fact that the State Plan does not permit Teacher Training Institutions to go into in- dustry to conduct conference with foremen, but that it does provide for the training of conference leaders. Hr. Cushman did not agree entirely v/ith this point of view* He believed that the Teacher Training Institutions should put on confer- ences here and there in industry, in order that they might be better equipped with first hand information so that they might do a still better job in teacher training. Ques . ‘That is the job of the State Teacher Training Insti- tution with regard to a State program of foreman training? Representatives present from the Teacher Training In- stitutions voiced the belief that there should be courses offered for the training of conference lead- ers, both in intensive courses at the Institution, and in extension teacher training work. The work at the Institution should be intensive because the mem- bers of the class would, many of them, come from a distance and could remain for such an intensive course more economically than by coming in once a week* Summer Conferences, at the Teacher Training 39 Institutions could bo held, at which time short intensive OD urses would be feasible. One of the other representatives from the State Teacher Training Institution outlined his plan as follows; He would first get an experienced man to conduct a plant conference. V/hile this vjas going on he would iiai?e two representatives from the Teacher Training Institution sit in in order thp.t they might afterwards be equipped to train conference leaders. He would offer as his justifi- cation for this procedure the statement that the purpose of the conference was to train conference leaders. Hue s . ’Jhat is the part of the city schools in the whole scheme ? Ans . It has been pointed out before that the persons in charge of industrial training locally are expected to malce direct contacts with the indus- tries of their district, and that the State and Federal authorities who work in the district are doing so in the interest of promotion, and only at the behest of the local authorities. Monday, October 23 , 1922 . Mr, Cushman referred to the report of the confer- ence at the Rutledge Timber Company. On page 125 there is an organization of ’’The Foreman’s Place in Industry, and The Foreman's Job." A discussion brought out that the items in column four were all more or less under the control of the foremen. It was stated that a similar sheet could be pre- pared for almost any industry, although it need not be or- ganized exactly as this one. If a company objects to show- ing its costs, etc., in this manner it is probable that an outside man would have difficulty in making use of such a sheet. There is no reason why an inside man, however, could not make use of such a sheet as a selling argument in convincing the management. It was announced that we would pursue a somewhat definite plan this week. Mr, Allen's book "The Foreman and his Job", was referred to as the most helpful work on how to conduct a conference. It was pointed out, however, that it is one thing to have a good plan, but that the situation is quite different v/hen you face 15 to 20 foremen in a room with the success of the conference on your shoulders. It is diffi- cult to find in one place adequate material for studying how to conduct a conference. It is quite different from studying such a subject as "Strength of Materials." 40 One of the most difficult problems in conducting a conference is to get the venture properly launched. There are many factors at work against the leader until he gets the ice broken. In starting a conference select some safe topic. The subject of "Job Analysis" would fall under this head, but it is likely to prove dry and uninspiring at this point. Probably the most effective topic at the beginnings would be a discussion of the relationships between the foreman and the men under him. This topic is always a safe one to discuss, and is in no way "loaded with dynamite" to the extent that a discussion of the relation of a foreman to other foremen, or the relationships of a foreman to his superiors is likely to prove, lir, Cushman told about one man who started off a conference with a discussion of co- operation. In this particular case it almost put the con- ference on the rocks. Topics for Pirst Pew Meetings 1 . Orders, directions, and suggestions. 2. Carelessness on the job- 3. leadership (leader or driver) 4. Interest 5. Satisfaction 6 Accidents and their causes If an inexperienced conference leader starts his first meeting equipped v/ith a list something like the above he is rather well fortified against failure. Suppose he should start out by selecting the subject of "Carelessness on the Job". If the men do not respond very well the leader might cite a case. If there is no sign of activity on the part of the men it would be well to change to such a subject as "Interest". It could be brought out that a good definition of interest is; "Whatever it is that makes a man v^rant to work on his job." After exhausting the list before mentioned, it is probable that the situation will be well enough in hand to proceed with "Job Analysis" and the more "touchy" subjects, such as co-operation betvi/een foremen and foremen, or fore- man and management. At this point Supplement to 305-A was passed out. - 41 Revised List of Points for Discussion on Intorest ’ It was then announced that the meeting woo-ld go into a sample foreman conference to demonstrate procedure, After referring to the afore mentioned discussion on "Interest" ilr. Cushman proceeded after the fashion of a conference leader handling a group of foremen. 1. A teacher tells a boy that if he doesn’t study his lessons he will not got promoted. Pear? (Does the teacher intend to scare the boy into studying?) Is the teacher appealing to pride, desire for leadership, gain or ad- vancement? 2, Anyone defacing the wells of this sanitary will be immediately discharged. Pear, 3. A ball in a show v/indow that runer round and round without any visible connection with anything under the glass plate on which it runs. Curiosity. 4, A plant athletic team. Plant pride. 5* calling a man into consultation on how a job is to be done. Job pride. 6. Putting up a prize for the department having the fewest number of accidents. Department pride. 7. On the Santa Pe R. R. giving a flag to the section having the most clean and good looking st.ations. Department pride and rivalry. 8. Firing a man for impertinence. (Hot a good question) Pear. ■t. / -i ■ y “i .1 1 ■ ‘i I I 42 9. Posting pictures of the result of not using guards on nxi chines. Pear . 10, Setting up the production records of different departments on a public bulletin board. Department pride, 11, Bawling a man out in public for a mistake in following directions, Q,uo 3 . },Ir. White did you ever have anyone bawl you out in public? Ans . Yes, and it didn’t set very well, etc. The above question should not be asked of any foreman who uses such tactics. ^Vhile an out- side man would not be supposed to know about this trait in the foreman, it might make this particular man suspicious that the leader had been given advanced information about him. It might, therefore, minimize the effect of the conference on this man. A better way to put the question would be, "How would you feel if someone bawled you out?" The per- sonality of the leader has a great deal to do with the success of questioning. Dr, Struck told about asking a very v/ordy man to boil down his remarks. It happened that the other foremen thought that this particular man was being called down. In all of this it is per- fectly safe to confine the discussion to the relationship of the foreman to the men under him. 12. Posting a notice stating that there hasn’t been an accident in this department for five days. Department pride. 13. Taking a new man through the department v/here he is to work and giving him a general idea of the differ- ent jobs that are carried on in that department be- fore he is started in training on the job that he is to work on. Job pride. An illustration was cited about a boy v;hom a foreman Was about to fire because he was not taking hold. Instead of letting him go, the foreman started to study the boy. He shov;ed him around the plant and ;• i % ft” / « ( I 43 in pnrticulr.r Ghowed him the piece of machin- ery toward the completion of v/hich the boy*s work vras contributing. The boy thereupon took on a new interest in his ;)ob and gave no more trouble. iir. Klufliee related how it was customary at the A. ll. Collins plant to take new employees aroui.d to show them the various operations in the plant. They go a step further in inviting the family and relatives of new workmen in order to secure their interest as well. Mr, Cushman pointed out that in one plant where he had conducted a conference not a single one of the eighteen men in the group had been through the entire plant and had any appreci- ation of all of the processes involved. It vi/as pointed out to them that their jobs de- pended upon the quality of the production and the disposition of the public to buy, etc. Mr. Barritt, of the v?estinghouse Company, said it was customary to take apprentice boys down to the erecting floor to shov; them hov/ the parts upon which they worked contributed to the completion of some l:irge piece of machinery, 14. A member of a plant organization insults another member a-nd his foreman tells him tho-t he must apologize to the other man or be fired. 'Vh'.t interest factor is used in this case? i'^car of being fired. The question v/as rained as to whether or not fear was an interest factor. It was thought to be better to get a man in a fr I i 'l J \ J, i / I •t ■ ei^ I I J it 49 the company’s time the use of the text is not Justifiable. It might be all right in evening meetings of men who come voluntarily from a variety of plants. They are there upon their own initiative for individual improvement. The conference leader is, in reality, a teacher but he must not permit himself to be thought of as such at the beginning of a conference. He ^ ould use good questions to bring out what the men collectively know, His main function is to help organize their thoughts and to assist them to get oriented. Mr, Cushman stated that he, personally, does not like to work by indirect methods, but that they are the only ones Justifiable in a foreman training confer- ence. It is better to draw out by conference methods what the men already know and then lead from that into certain things that are to be taught. Every conference leader really does considerable teaching after all, It is sometimes desirable to lot a foreman, v;ho is teaching before the group, fall down on the Job. He will have a consequently greater respect for the problems of teaching. It was emphasized that foremen are rather well educated after a fashion. The fact that they have attained foremanship shows that they have considerable accomplishments, although not necessarily of a formal school-room kind. It is not good tactics in a conference to inquire about the formal schooling of the men. It is no", well to let the men feel that the leader places too much importance upon the degree of public school education that they have had. Mr. Dennis mentioned that he had written to about tv/enty concerns where foremanship conferences had been held. He was impressed by the fact that through all of the answers- to his letters there seemed to run the one idea, that as a result of this v/ork the foremen seemed to be using their heads better on the Job. To get foremen to use their heads on the Job and grow depends upon more than merely the pouring out information on the part of the conference leader, Mr. Evans pointed out an analogy between the methods of conducting a foreman conference and those in vogue in the continuation schools. Text book methods do not obtain results. 1 i •I I ! f I 50 Tuesday, October 24, 1922. Letters have been received from the following list of firms concerning their experience with foreman training c'^nfer- ences. (Copies of these letters v/ill be sent to responsible per- sons upon application :to the State Department of Public Instruc- tion) . 1. DcLaval Separator Co., Po-ughkeepsie 2. American Radiator Go., Buffalo 3. Cosden & Co., Tulsa 4. Carborundum Co., Riagra Palls 5. Acheson Graphite Co., Iliagra Pal]s 6. The Carolina Cotton & V/oolen Mills Co., Spray, iJ. C. 7. Champion Pibre Company Canton , 8. The Coleman Lamp Company Vifi tchi ta 9. Utah-Idaho Sugar Co., Sait Lake City 10. IJiagra Alkali Go., Riagra Palls 11. Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester 12. northwestern Bell Telephone Co , , Omaha 13. A. M. Collins Mfg, Co. Phila. 14. Remy Electric Company Anderson, Ind, 15. Dutchess Mfg. Company Poughkeepsie 16* Jas. Clark, Jr., Electric 0o . Louisville A case v;as brought up where a foreman "A" claimed no responsibility for stock after it left. his department. Porernan "B" of another department likewise claimed no responsibility for stock until it was actually received in his department. One day foreman ”A'’ shoved a truck load of perishable stock, valued at $300, outside of his department where it was exposed to the weather. That night a heavy rain spoiled the stock. Both fore- man "A” and foreman "B" disclaimed any responsibility. It was pointed out that cases such as the above may well be used as a basis in discussing supervisory responsibil- ities of foremen. Jhen cases of this sort are brought out, a careful analysis of foremen's supervisory responsibilities may well be undertaken with a view of bringing the foreman to a point of agreement regarding "border line" responsibilities. In putting on a conference in an industry that has not been carefully analyzed it might be found profitable to ^end as much as forty-five out of the sixty hours on job analysis. It was stated that in highly organized industries, such as the Remy Electric Company, it had not been found nec- essary to spend even five miinutes on job analysis. At the be- ginning of the conference it was found that all of the jobs in the plant had been minutely analyzed before. In this particular plant the problem of major interest concerned the breaking in of green help. The following form was taken from the Report of the Conference on "Improving Eoremanship and Instructor Training." at Stonega C«ke and Coal Company. It is found on page 28 of the report. I I V " , % '1 ^ ' \ '% % 51 Departmental Job Work Job ( ( { Payroll Job f ( ( ( ( ( (Vfork Job (' Work Job (Payroll Job ( ( ( ( f ( (Work Job ^ 'blr.i;; Po:'nt Ope rat j. o n ( Hr.man Me ch . ( ( ( ( Operat ing: Po-'nt ( ( Operating ±^oint ( ( ( Qperatlon( ( ( Operati.ng Poi nt Operating Pc i nt Operatio: 1 n( f K ( ( ( V ( Operating Point Operating Poi nr ( ( ( Operation( ( \ fOpe rating Point Operating Point ( Operation( ( ( ( (Operating Point ( ‘ ( Operating Point ( ( ( Operation( ( Operating Point Operating Point Operation( ( ( ( ( ( (Operating Point ( ( Operating Point ( ( ( Operation( ( ( Operating Point 52 For some jobs it is profitable to carry out such analysis but in otliers it is not. It is probable that bhe carrying out of all five stages vrould prove unprofitable with men from skilled trades. Opie s . Do you use mimeographed forms to guide the men in making job analysis? Ans . (By Mr. Gunman) "Usually the idea has been developed on the blackboard and not on mimeographed forms. I have never had time to go into the matter at great length in a foreman'' s conference." Ques . At what point in the conference is it best to work in this job analysis? Ans , Soon after the start, but not at the start. It is better to use the personal interest factors at the beginning. V/hen the subject of job analysis is in- troduced it is better to drop it if the interest lags and bring it up at still a later time, provided that you introduce some of it before the conference is over. Ques . V/hat good is job analysis? Values of Job Analysis (As v7or]:ed out v^tth a group of fo' remen teacher trainers) 1. - As preparation for better work instructing green men. Note; A man may be an expert on the actual job and still not be able to catalogue the steps in- volved. Cases were cited as follow's; A man in charge of varnishing spirit levels was asked to list out the steps involved in the process in order that they might be used in teaching green help. His confidence was somewhat shaken ?;hen it vvas poix.ted out to him that in his list he had omitted one of the most important points. It v;as pointed out that many foremen in teaching others will credit the learner v/ith considerable horse sense, and will consequently fail to cover some important points, with the result that theie is a gap in the in- struction. In such a case a complete job analysis vjould help the foreman to cover all of the points necessary to complete instruction. An analysis of the job helps to discover gaps between the work of the foremen who receives the job at dif- ferent stages of its completion. I i ■^J \ 1 . ’■ \ ^ I ‘ r: 1 53 2. - V/oiild help to define rosponsiliili ties of foronan. 3. - Makes foreman view his job objectively. 4. - Has a training value. iJobe: #5 is more a part of tho follow-up program, and perhaps should not be listed as one of tho values to be v/orked out in an in- tensive conference of sixty to eighty hours , 5. - Extends foreman's knowledge of certain operations carried on in his department, on which he may have had limited experience. In case the conference loader experiences diffi- culty in getting the men to see what trade analysis is all about, it might be well to refer to the operation of put- ting on a coat. Mr. Cushman has used this v/ith consider- able success. It is alv/ays found that after the men have listed up the operations in putting on a coat they are so incomplete that a person follov/ing the steps v;ould not be successful in his efforts to actually put on the coat. The men usu.ally see the point and are ready to accept the idea that, although a man knoxvs hov/ to do a thing perfectly it is no guarantee that he can tell how he does it. It v/as pointed out that in a successful conference the foremen are al'ways given two distinct experiences. 1. foreman placed in the position of a green man on tho job. 2. foreman placed in the position of instructor who knows the work thoroughly. Job analysis should never be carried to the point whore the conference loader begins to look like an effi- ciency expert in his relationship to the situation. It is enough to got the foremen to carry the analyses to a point where the:/ get a clear notion of the idea. The completion of the analyses is then the responsibility of the foreman. Since the leader does not know tho payroll jobs he depends upon tho foreman to furnish this information. He is then only responsible for helping to organize the material they bring in, and should make it clear to the men that it is their work and not his. 4 54 - The four points previously listed out are the ones that are supposed to be of value in a Job analysis. If the layout of the analysis is not good it is probably an indication that the loader has not been suc- cessful in getting the foremen to think properly, ^.uo s . V/hat would be the vailue of a complete Job anal- ysis? Ans. Helps management to see the whole Job, Helps the foreman to see the Jobs on both sides of him. Helps those v/ho supervise, Ques . V7ho gets the most out of the Job analysis? Ans . The man who works it out. The question arose as to whether it was not necessary to carry the analysis far enough to be able to show some rather tangible results and demonstrate that something worth while has been done. It was pointed out. that the main thing coming out of the analysis should be a new and problem solving attitude toward the work. The main value lies in developing the capacity of the men to analyze other Jobs in their departments. Some of the in- dustrial men present took the attitude that Job analysis could be overdone by going through certain motions that are unproductive. The question was discussed as to whether or not a conference should complete a Job analysis to a point where it would command respect in published form. It was pointed out that if this was the sole motive in completing it there was danger of losing sight of the main motive in making the analysis, A great deal of discussion centered around the question of how you are to determine v/hether or not a man has the ability to make further Job analysis unless he has actually completed one in training. At this point a distinction was brought out be- tween classes in the analyzing oP trades and conferences for the training of foremen,. In the former it would be perfectly proper to spend as much as a year on analysis, but such a procedure would bo obviously out of place in the case of the latter. Mr. Cushman stated that he had never found it profitable to carry on a complete Job analysis in a fore- man training group. He stated that any questions arising concerning this matter, or any others in the conference, ' should be tested by the use of the word "why,” 55 The different kinds of analyses that raight be worked out were taken up at this point, and the following list was given: Analysis of supervisory job. Analysis of production difficulties in terras of material flow. Analysis of managerial responsibilities. Analysis of instructional responsibilities. Analysis of accidents. Admission of ^ Supervisory . Managerial Cost yVays & responsibility^ responsibility/ problems / eleraenisAleans . Note: This device has been called a formula for oca* ■ ducting a conference by the case method. It was pointed out that the men do not respond freely if an artificial case is cited. It is much more productive of results to get a man to talking about his own individual case. A discussion centered around the question of hov; much information a production manager should give his men on the subject of personnel and management. It v/as thought that a wise manager would see that the men were thoroughly familiar with these subjects, since the policies of manage- ment depend to such a considerable degree on the attitude of the foreman. It was thought probable that this question could well be taken up in the follow-up meetings following intensive conferences. Ques . What is meant by supervisory responsibility? Ans . Getting the job done, and seeing that conditions are right for such accomplishment. A great deal of discussion centered around the exact meaning of the work "supervision." A great deal of difference of opinion was expressed concerning the border line between tlje supervisory and the managerial duties of a foreman. The difficulty seemed to hinge upon the fact that the ordinary conception of supervision is much broader than the one implied in the so-called formula noted above. It was pointed out that in a foreman's coni- ference the participants^ usually express differences of opinion over these terms. It frequently takes a great many cases to get the foremen to a point of agreement. t f ih-f * » I 1 ..>s. s p o .^r i 0 i 1 i 1 1 c G , 3vich as ( I n s po c t i riiT an d t ak i na o v e r , ( ( drans-)orti rjg to ntoraac, { ( xaotoction -ihilo in stox'a^o- 3 to cl: ( ( kcrioval irom Gtoro.ge, and tranvSoortaion ( to noarovst opo rating point. ( ( Pro CO sacs of '.larrafac taring. . ( f Scrap and vankagc. koto: Pho above is -vorlcod out cocplotely in the appendix of Bulletin The Tv;o ./ay s of .Discharging Posponsibili tics Phe only t'/o knonn v/ays of discharging: a respo.nsibili ty v/oro listed out as follows: 1, By acting 2. By reporti.ng to proper part:y in the organization. A discussion ensued as to the responsibilities of _ the fore’.mri in the case of receiving inferior material. It was brought out that foremen rarely buy, or pass upon materials, etc, \7ould a foremen's conference travel along the same linos as this confer once? The difference between this group and a typical group of foremen lies in the fact that while this group discusses abstract principles largely, the foromon thin-c concretely and usually confiruj the discussion to their owni jobs. In further dis- cussing the forunan's responsibili ty legardin^ . stock, an instance ■'.^as cited as follows: In a certain paper mill the foreman of the coating roo-.i discovered at 1 70 o'clock one morning, that he no^-dod a barrel! of yollo'7 ochre i recdiatelv, and that there was none in stock. If ho did not get it immediately it 'would moan stomping -vork on the present order, ’-h ich involved considerable loss. ho hapxjoned to know that another mill, eight, miles away, had th-.. required icatorial, so he obtained a truck driver and wmnt to the nearby imill and broUj-kit back thv. barimll of ochr... It 'was felt in tnis instance that this .fore:ian " should have exercised i.-iorc forethought. k "I / fj t The discussion reverted to the border-line be- tween .Guporvisory and managerial duties of a foroi.ien. It was stated that a foreman might v;alk through the shop and discover that everything was going as well as could be ex- pected, Ho is merely gathering information, but ho is discharging his supervisory function. If ho finds something that j needs adjustment there is a need for him to go over into ' the managerial stage in correcting it. At this point Mr. Cushman drew an a,nalogy betv/ocn the afore mentioned diagram concerning stock and an oven-ing school. Kg likened the pupils to raw material and the fore- m.an to a teacher. He then discussed the relation of tho teacher to such responsibilities as v/ore before listed. Since certain members of, the conference were not yet ready to accept the limitations placed upon the term "supervisory responsibility", Mr. Gushm.an asked for a dif- ferent arrangomont that would bo satisfactory. One of tho members present suggested the following; First Step: Foreman gets information as to job- getting orders - incoming instruc- tions . Second Step: Third Step; Fourth Step: Managerial problem of what and ho7/. Instructional problem. Lastly the foreman go^s around and supervises . Ho objection was raised to this classification, and it was pointed out that regardless of any such devices the thing that is being sought is the promotion of think- ing. Quo s . Is it, therefore, worth while to try to classify their supervisory and managerial functions? Ans , (By Mr, Cushman) I would not try to put over, or discuss any device or idea that did not appeal to me as being logical. I would never cram, a definition dov/n their throats. My own feeling about tha arrangement of supervisory and manager- ial duties is, that after giving the matter con- siderable thought, I have not been able to arrive at a better plan. If the foreman does not accept this it is all v/oll and good. The so-called for- mula could be omitted and a discussion of cases taken up after the following fashion: Errors Causes T Remedies ^ Cost elements i \ J I 58 iVodnosday, October 25, 1922 » The following diagram shov/s the possible dis- tribution of direct questions, overhead questions, and discussion; This is typical of a series of conferences and also, to some degree, of individual conferences. (Taken from Page 18, Minneapolis Report) Progress of Conference Reference was made at this point to Page 21 in the Minneapolis Report, where are listed seven points v/hich ^ould be kept in mind. The leader should be careful to steer away from any attempt to settle company policies. At this point there was distributed 205-A, "Partial Analysis of Supervisory Responsibilities." It was pointed out that sheets such as these may be given out to foremeni, but that it is better not to have them returned to the con- ference leader. The greatest danger in using form 305-A.is in hanging on to it too long. It is an "opening-up" device. One of its chief values lies in its suggestiveness - in its thought provoking qualities. The conference leader suggested that it might be highly desirable to study and compare the various mimeo- graphed reports that have been issued on the subject of foreman training. Nearly 4ill of them start with topics in- volving human interest factors. 59 At this point there v/ere distributed «. nrtjuher of blanks covering such matters as "Departmental .:'‘ob Analysis"', "Operations in Working Jobs", "Operating Points in Operations", and "V/orking Jobs in Departmental Jobs." Forms used by the Vocational Bureau of the Pennsylvania State Department of public Instruction at the Haramerraill Plant v/ere passed out. Auxiliary Instruction Material {Checking forms ("Laundry lists") Forms (Analysis forms (Reporting forms Cases (Samples from other plants ( Hypothetical (Plant (Better if supplied by the men) Questions x \ (General agreement on definite N / (answers expected. Points for Discussion (Questions not intended ( to secure definite ( answers - but useful ( in promoting discussion. Notes for follow-up rather than advanced study. At this point there was a discussion on job analysis for determining the supervisory value of the job. (Misc. 305-A) It was mentioned that school men sometimes over-estimate the need for instruction in plants, and that on the other hand plant executives sometimes underestimate the amount of training needed, It is well for both to work together in developing educational programs for plant men. At this point the discussion led off into the aims and purposes of general education versus vocational education. Mr. Cushman gave an interesting discussion commenting on the following three topics: (Information and appreciation General Education (Team work - Citizenship (Play the game ) Economic - (Some people say that this is not the concern of public Education. ^jThatever it is, it needs to be taught. When a person obtains a job he has to learn how to do it. This learning process is going on all of the time in industry and is a direct charge upon society) , 9 { > j c n'r . 1 . a -• 60 *• It was pointed out hov/ the schools v;ar« orig«» inally vocational in their intent. Emphasis waa IHaei placed upon the fact that the attitude of the people in general education is x’ital to the success of vocational education, and that there should he a closer oo-operation and understanding between the persons charged with these activities. Industrial education represents a social con- sciousness of economic needs. At this point there was distributed a mimeo- graphed sheet on "Giving Orders." A discussion ensued on the comparative value of "points for discussion" versus a list of questions. The term "points for discussion" is used for those forms of questions that raise one or more problems, and that cannot satisfactorily be answered off-hand by "yes" or "no." Reference was made to Bulletin #36, Part 2, and the fact that it contains "follov;-up" notes. These are of special interest, because there is not at the present time very much of such material available. The suggestion was made that members of the group present could make a considerable contribution by producing some of this type of material. It v/as stated that the purpose of distributing the mimeographed sheets to this group was to show types of material that has been found useful. In each case these sheets have been developed in actual practice rather than from a theoretical standpoint, I Copies of Miscellaneous 305-A were distributed at this time, covering the subject of "The Analysis of Cases on the Managerial Use of Interest." It v/as stated that Bulletin #36, Part 1, was intended for the use of conference leaders, and that Part 2, had been developed as follow-up notes. It haa been found useful in conferenoes to take the staples out of Part 2 and use a few pages at a time. It is proper to use these Bulletins in any v;ay that individuals may see fit, since no Government material is copyrighted. It was stated that Bulletin #61 has to do with certain phases of foremanship, and that in the back of the publication there is a rather complete "Laundry list." Mimeographed Bulletin, Misc. 306, was distrib- uted for further use by conference leaders. It was stated that this material had been developed by Mr, Allen and others, and that it was related to his book called, "The Instructor, the Man, and the Job." 61 At this point the meeting partook the nature of a demonstration conference. The mineographed sheet, "Joints for Discussion on Leadership”, was used as the basis for discussion. 1. A foreman is popular with his men because he is a ’^ood mixer". Does this mean that he is a good "leader"? Why? Discussion of a good mixer ^-ersus the array officer. Mixing does not mean undue fa- miliarity, but rather good feeling, etc. 2. A foreman is noted for being quick tempered and for "blowing up" easily and often bav;ling out his men vh en they don’t deserve it. He is always sorry for it afterwards and tries to straighten things out. Can he be a good leader? V/hy? Ho, because he cannot control himself. He loses prestige when he tries to explain and straighten things out. At this point the leader started to list out on the board the desirable qualities in foremen. This was added to as the conference advanced, and included such points as here listed; Hot too snobbish Hot too familiar with his men Temper under control Ability to inspire confidence, ( including square deal) (a) ) With regard to personal qualities. (b) V/ith regard to , 30 b knov/ledge. note; Later during the progress of the con- ference a vote was taken as to which was most desirable in the above list It was unanimously agreed that "Ability to inspire confidence and to give a square deal" v/as of major im- portance. Mr. Cushman said that thi vms nearly always the result in fore men's conferences. 3. A general foreman is very arbitrary in dealing with his subordinates. He is the type of man that "v/ants no excuses." He is square. Can he be a leader for his subordinates? vVhy? H I { 62 A good loader should always make it possible for his men to get ideas across to him, IIov;- ever, thero comes a time when arbi trariness seems to be justified in cases. A discussion on loyalty ensuod at this point. 4^ A certain foreman was instructed to bring a report to his superior at four o'clock. He brought it at a quarter to four and his superior refused to take it saying: "vYhen I say four o'clock I mean four o'clock. He gave no reason for standing on the exact time. VTould such an attitude tend to increase his leader- ship with his subordinates? VJhy? A display of authority was conceded to be "poor stuff." 5. A foreman in a certain plant was noticed as having his men continually coming to him for advice about their private affairs. Ho advised them as to investing their money, fixed up rows betv/een husband and v\;ife, etc. Did this situation increase or decrease his position as a leader of his men? Why? A great deal of discussion centered around this point. It was the consensus of opinion that a good foreman, ivho has the respect of his men is likely to have all sorts of family matters, etc., called to his attention for attempted adjustment. One of the industrial men present cited several instances of adjusting domestic matters for his men. This point for discussion seemed to be very productive of results and is likely to take fifteen or twenty minutes of the. time of the conference. 6. Gan a man be a leader of his team and be a strong dis- ciplinarian? Why? A strong disciplinarian uses fairness and firm- ness, and has the saving grace of knov;ing v;hen to overlook certain things. It vms pointed out that many people regard discipline from the angle of supervision or punishment. An incident vras related of tv/o men v;ho left their work to attend a conference. One v/as a loud mouthed, self-assertive sort of fellow, and the other was of a very quiet type. After the conference had been under way for four days the noisy fellov/ dropped out and went back to his work, because it was found that the place went to pieces in his absence. In the case of the quiet man it was found that his department ran even smoother than usual. A discussion then took place as to what consti- tuted discipline. I? i , I - C3 - 7, A certain foreman was noted as a ’’driver”. He got more work out of his men than any other foreman in the plant where ho v/as employed* He v/as absolutely square, in all his dealings v/ith his men but would have nothing to do with them outside of the plant business. Is he likely to be a leader? V/hy? This man was the old type of leader. V/hile he might get more work for a time the improvement would not be likely to be permanent. The question of whether the personal neatness of a foreman has any influence on the men under him was discussed, and incidents related* Ques * (By Mr. Cushman) In an actual conference would you use this illustration to get the men to brush their clothes, shoes, etc? This question brought out the story of how a certain man in a shop conference had gone home at noon and dressed up in his best clothes before his turn came to put on a practice teaching Job, The attitude of the men embarrassed him considerably. After considerable discussion it ?/as pointed out that an outside man going into a plant t© lead a conference should be careful not to arouse misconceptions concerning the desira- bility of certain factors, as being appro- priately dressed in relation to their every-day v/ork. There ensued a discussion on the merits of foremen versus forewomen over v7omen help. This seemed to be a good topic and called for considerable discussion, 8. >Can a foreman who does not plan his work in advance be a good leader? Why? A foreman should plan, after some fashion, for the most obvious things concerning his Job. It v;as thought to be better to plan even if the plans were upset to some extent. For ex- ample, suppose a man’s plans call for the oon- timuous use of a certain machine for the next day's production. If that machine should break down, his original plan would be upset. This called for a discussion of emergency supervision. Ques ♦ Would you say that ability to plan ahead is a quality of leadership? Ans. Yes. 64 The follovdng cases wore taken from supplement to Mi sc. 305; "Points for Discussion - Leadership.” 1. A foreman sav/ a v/orlonan with a bucket of v/ater trying to put out a fire which had started in some nitrate of soda sacks. The water spread the fire. The building was of concrete. The foreman ran over and slugged the v/orkraan in the jaw, grabbed a bucket of sand and put the fire out. He afterwards said that the could not take time to tell the man to stop, V/as ^ this good leadership? No. 2. A workman was making some small parts on his lathe. When he had the first one finished he called his foreman to inspect it. The follov/ing conversa- tion took place; The foreman said; "This is just a little bit too large," The worlonan said: "Well, I will take another cut," The foreman said; "No, donit do that, you have it as near as you can get it." The workman said: "IThy didn*t you say so in the first place?" Is thi.s good leadership? \/hy? The foreman might be justified in this con- clusion if he knew that that particular lathe \?as in such shape that another cut might mean getting the piece under size. 3. A superior has several subordinates working under him. One man is continually doing things of which the superior disapproves. Instead of taking it up with him individually, the superior gives all of his men a "call down". Is this good leadership? Why? Poor, 4. A worlonan made a mistake on a job and the superin- tendent came to the man’s foreman demanding to know who did it. The foreman took the blame. Did he do the right thing? All right. A discussion took place at this point as to whether the foreman would be a better leader if he jumped in and led the way in doing the actual vo rk. A difference of opinion existed between the industrial men present. V/hile a few of the men felt that the foreman ^ould either get in, or make it evident to the men that he v/as not sending them where he v/ould not go, the others thought that it was not necessary to do this, provided the men had been apprais- ed in advance that they v/ere getting into some particularly dirty work. C5 Ques . In the rougher sort of lobs, hovj about the ability of the foreman to ’’lick” everybody under him. The discussion brought out that if a foreman strikes a man on company property, thereiis likely to be a damage suit against the company. In discussing qualities of leadership it was stated that the soldiers during the V/orld War, in voting on traits most to be condemned, placed ’’Cowardice" and "Big-headedness" at the head of the list. In this connection it vjas brought out that the type of situation in which a man finds himself colors his attitude toward such matters, and that in an in- dustrial plant such a vote would probably not bring out the same results. Mr. Cushman, as conference leader, at this point brought out the^factthat the discussion, and the conclusions reached in considering the afore mentioned list, which had now been completed, had been entirely furnished by the men present, and that the leader had not directly contributed a single point, but had led the men to contribute out of their ovm experience. This he held to be a very good example of a conference, and ^owed a contrast to a class in which you teach the men, by direct methods, what they do not already know. Points for discussion are not necessarily questions v;hich call for a definite answer. It is not necessary to get a definite answer, and often avoids trouble, because the leader is not placed in the position of saying to one man that he is wrong and to another that he is right. The remainder of the day was taken up with a dis- cussion of follow-up aspects which ould supplement the intensive foreman training cours-e. Dr, Smith was asked to outline his ideas regarding the v;ork in his field. He stated that the first step would be the putting on of an actual conference, in charge of a skilled leader. The plant in which this will be done has not yet been determined. He preferred the idea of putting on one conference that was small enough and close enough to the men, the management, and the school to act as an enter- ing v/edge. He considered the success of this first confer- ence to be absolutely vital. He expects to have two or three representatives there to be trained, with possible a follow-up of another conference, in order that his men may be able to start in to train conference leaders. He prefers this method to one in which you might start ten conferences at the same time in one of the big steel companies. 66 After this oonforenco had been held, and been a snocoss, he felt that other business men v/ould be more im- pressed than they would be if he she aid ^'o to them ivith an untried proposition. He felt that he would not care to personally conduot the first conference, because he wished to be in a position of defending the conference idea rather than hi*.iself as a conference leader, Mr. Dennis suggested that the men from industry submit their ideas in connection v/ith the whole matter. C omment ( 3y Mr. Kluf kee , of the A. M. Collins Manufactur- ing Company, Philadelphia) lie have had the in- tensive conference under Dr, Struck, and it is now my purpose to go back and continue the work v/hich he started* I am interested in knov/ing just what my next step ought to be. Mr. Dennis asked that this question be discussed at length in the remaining sessions of this con- ference, and made it clear that it was the desire of the schools to get the ideas of the men in industry to help in formulating plans, and that he did not desire that they merely assent to the plans of the schools after they had been already formulated. Comment (By Mr, Bingman of the Pennsylvania Railroad Co.) Mr, Bingman was interested to knov/ how the schools could insure a better product out of v;hich their future foremen could be made. He felt that the boys v/ho were coming to him from the schools had a need of a broadening out and an appreciation of what it means to dP a day's work, Ques, (To Mr, Bingman) How far have most of these boys been in school when you get them? Ans , vBy Mr, Bingman) Many of them have been through High School, but while mentally developed they apparently need something which they are not getting, Ques , Is it the change from the surroundings of the school to the surroundings of the shop that seems to be the difficulty? This question brought out the fact that boys out of school sometimes have incorrect notions re- garding conditions and requirements in industry, Mr. Earrjtt, of the Westinghouse Company, said that this topic was , such a big one that It could not possibly be discussed in the few minutes available. He felt that it would take a week to go over the matter properly. V ■( . ‘ r'- ’. *»» f i . . i.i .. • .. .» .'j ■ri I . ■ .1 .v>' .-y" v;‘^. . :;V“. ;.: I. .= . • ' ' ’ ' *- - ' ■■ 'i'. •• • Vr' . 1 ;• ¥\ .'I .• :■ *:;v ■ r': r'. .j • f ■ ■!• -, I V • 1 . !...■. ■-.-1 ' > . ' ! r . 67 Mr. Evans injected the question as to v/hether there is a sixteen to eighteen year compulsory apprentice field. This question was held over because the conference had already run over time. Mr. Bingman emphasized that he was in no way criticizing the schools. Thursday, October 26, 1922 Mr, J, C, IVright, Director of the federal Board for Vocational Education, addressed the conference for a short time, and presented figures to show the present scale of expenditures for the variaus kinds of vocational educa- tion in the United States. These figures v/ill be included in the Annual Report of the Federal Board for Vocational Education, and only a few comparisons are given here. A Comparison of the Expenditures of the Federal Board for Vocational Education for 1921 -1922. A Comparison of the Expenditures of the Federal Board for Vocational Education for 1921-1922. Totals Evening Part-time All -day Extension prepara- tion Contin- uation Totals 100^ 9% 52,5% 38.5fo 21.7^ 30»8n Agriculture j 10.6^ ■7.5% Trade & Ind, 53*9^ -l3fo 8.7^ 30.81 1 27.4^ Home Economic 3 35 . 6 ^ 22fo 10% — 3.6% Here Mr» Cushman raised the question with Mr. V/right as to where he thought we were going in the matter of foreman training. Mr. v/right stated that it was the function of the Federal Board for Vocational Education to be constant- ly on the lookout for problems involving vocational educationj which may be studied for the purpose of furthering desirable types of instruction. When it is within the resources of the funds, provided for carrying out the Smith-Hughes Act, monies are made available to the States for the carrying on of the work. 68 As to the future of the foreman training conference idea, he believes that progress v/ill eventually be made to the point v/here industry itself will assume the greater part of the respon- sibility for training of foremen. This v;ill be especially true when the plants are large enough t to provide d'roups of a size that will vjarrant in- dustry in carrying facilities for doing the work itself. Workmen become foremen over night vjith no idea of the responsibilities of the nevi job. Some training would better the condition of new foreman to a marked degree. In fJonducting a con- ference v/here the men are already in jobs as foremen it will be found that they learn a great deal by the trial and error method. If a confer- ence is held with such a group, the conference method should work very well. It is difficult, howev^er, to use this method so successfully in training prospective foremen. The I’ederal Board is in a position to loan its experience to the States. Mr. Wx’ight cited, as an example, the fact that Mr. Cushman is now conducting a conference for Pennsylvania. The next logical step is for the State to take up the work and carry it through the intensive conference stage in industry before turning it over for them to continue. He drew an analogy between the follow-up program for foremen, and the teaching on probation which a normal school student does for two years after graduation. He stated that the conference merely starts the fore- man, and that some agency, the company or another, must take over a definite procedure of follow-up wo rk . As an illustration of such a program he referred to a conference held in the coal regions of a certain State. The State Superv^’isor had re- quested that the federal Board put on a conference for four coal companies. There were sixteen men who Spent two weeks, of six hours a day, in this conference, and that the attendance throughout was almost 100%, The four companies then v/ished to carry on the work beyond this stage, and each com- pany had its own idea as to how it desired to pro- ceed. One of them proposed to procure a ^5,000 man who v/ould take charge of the program. Another 69 one wished to utilize an inside man. Before doing so, hov/ever, the latter \7ished to put on an inten- sive program. For three weeks there v/ere two groups handled after this manner, the Superinten- dents in the morning, and the foremen in the after- noon. At the end of this period plans -were worked out for other conferences within the concern, and since that time they have completed five such con- ferences, consisting of twelve to fifteen men each, and in addition have put in evening school facil- ities for the men. The evening classes were taught by the assistant conference leaders. As a result of the conferences the fore- men get the idea that they, as \ 7 ell as the men, Should have trade extension training, v/hich reveals an additional educational value in the v;ay of a by-product. In concluding his remarks Mr. ./right stated that he believes it la. very much better to proceed slowly, and to be sure of the ground before going too far. He thought it best to sell the pro- position to one company first and then proceed to build up from such a beginning. At the present time there is a lack of conference leaders. There is plenty of good material, but it takes conference experience to get a person properly launched in the work. inGtructors- 71 - The discusaion at this point reverted to a con- sideration of r;ays and moans of putting on a follow-up program. It v;as stated that conferences should not be multiplied to a point in any plant where it would mean just going through the motion of holding the meeting. It was stated, however, that if the objectives have been properly brought before the foremen, there is slight like- lihood of running out of suitable material for future con- ferences. I’rom time to time there should be a necessity for conferences between the educational director and department heads to confer about educational matters in the plant. V/hen technical courses are provided as part of the follow-up program, efforts should be made to enlist the co-operation of the public schools, which have funds and facilities for conducting evening trade extension classes . At this point a tentative layout of the job of the plant educational director was placed upon the black- board. It is an adaptation of Plan E, as before noted in this repor,t. (See layout on Page 70). The question was raised as to v/hether or not conference groups might be increased in size so as to in- clude more than twenty persons in a single conference. The consensus of opinion was that tv/enty is about the maximum number for foremen unfamiliar v/ith the "conference" method of foreraanship training, but that after theije fore- men have had this experience larger conferences may be organized for purposes of follow-up instruction. There is danger in making these groups so large that they v/ill hinder free expression on the part of those participating. At the request of the leader, Mr. Ash outlined briefly the Philadelphia plan of foreman conferences. He stated that an initial difficulty was found in the fact that they had but few leaders and a great many men. As a result of this situation they first tried handling large groups, and were not impressed as to the value of such procedure < Mr. Bingman, of the Pennsylvania Railroad Com- pany, stated his experience with large groups. He found that twenty-five or thirty men constituted the maximum for a successful discussion group. His plant had tried the idea out with larger groups and considered them not altogether successful. At this point an interesting diagram was placed upon the board by Mr, Cushman td illustrate the performance curve of a conference leader in attempting to attain his objective. He illustrated the idea by considering the course a man would sail from Cape Cod to Cape Race. 72 He finds v/ith varying winds and conditions that he is constantly diverted from his coarse. His objective is to reach Gape Race, and he frequently takes ohservations to see how far off his course he lias blown. He is not in a particularly bad nay so long as he realizes just hov.' far off the course he is and as a result changes his tactics in order to constantly drav/ nearer to his objective. It inight be necessary for him to tack back and forth in order to make progress against an unfavor- able wind. 'Tith each tack he comes nearer to the goal. So long as he maintains progress toivard the goal he feels no concern, but he would certainly need sympathy if he should get half way to his objective and then start to sail around in a circle. In o,ttempting to got back on his course he might go off at a tangent and strike the rocks. This is a rather good analogy to the conducting of a conference. Rocks Oue s . Is there any industrial man here whose plant uses trade tests? Ans . Ilo . It was stated, hov;ever, that the printing trade in Baltimore uses some sort of a trade test, and that the Curtis Publishing Company utilizes a manuscript reading test for en- trance into the composition department. ■>’1 '■'.f .if- 73 It wae 'brought out that in order to have teste v;hich are efficient, each plant and each department in a plant will have to develop tests to meet the peculiar conditions of the employijient . It was also stated that tests are chiefly valuable in handling men who have already become employes, and v/hom the management may wish to shift to positions of higher responsibility. Ques . '.7ould you announce in your plant that there is going to be a class formed for prospective foremen, and invite any v/ho desire to enter the class? Ans . No. It is probable that the selecting of future foremen would be a direct concern of the em- ployment department, or of some others defin- itely responsible for selecting the proper men. Dr. Smith, of the University of Pittsburgh, stated that he thought of intelligence undep three headings^ verbal, mechanical, and social. He stated that tests should be considered from these three angles, and that they should be used only as a check on the con- clusions which have been made from other indications. At this point there was a discussion of the layout chart, and certain minor changes were indicated •which it was thought v/ould add to the value of the device. Reference was made, at this point, to "Notes on the Training of Poremen," (September 19E2) The seven objectives, which have been set up previously in this re- port, were arrived at on the basis of the analyst s given in these notes, MfJ. Harrison, of the Hararaermill Paper Company, reverted to Dr. Smith's discussion of the three kinds of intelligence. He stated that he believes the attitude of a man toward his work is fundamental when considering him for a job as foreman. He stressed particularly the need for v;hat has been referred to as "Social Intelligence." It was stated that there is available a wealth of necessary information as to the training of foreman instructors. Every state has a man or men who can fur- nish this service. More information is being accumulated from time to time on the other phases of handling con- ferences of executives and other groups. Mr. Klufkee, of the A. M. Collins Company, stated that his plant could see satisfactory results from the conference recently conducted by Dr. Struck of the Department of Public Instruction. They desire to put on a follow-up program, and are seeking information as to the immediate procedure. Suggestions for such a follow-up program were forthcoming. t \ 74 Mr. Cushman suggested that a period of rest bo allowed between the intensive conference and the inaugu- ration of a follow-up program, in order that the ideas presented in the conference might have time to, be thor- oualilv asslirailated. *U9S . (By Mr. Cushman) Have your foremen gone far in job analysis - costs which they can control - and do they have much instructing to do? Are there any technical courses the men would be interested in? Ans . Dr. Struck, in commenting upon Mr. Klufkee's situation, suggested that Bulletin 36 , Vol. 2, be given to the men, and that a committee be appointed to make suggestions. Mr. Harrison voiced the belief that the point of saturation might be easily reached in presenting definite training to the foremen. He suggested that a good follovz-up program could be effected through the use of foremen’s clubs and the other types of activities men- tioned in the charts and plans v/hich appear earlier in the report. He also favored the use of books treating on the general subject. In the club it would be possible to refer back to topics developed in the initial intensive conference. He pointed out that it is diffi- cult to set up a program here, because each plant has its ovm peculiar conditions, and that it is by a study of these that suggestions as to topics should arise. Ques ♦ (By Mr. Bingman) Hov; about having men prepare a paper? Ans . (By Mr. Cushman) That is a very good idea. Mr. Cushman reiterated that it was of no use to have a conference unless there should be something to con- fer about. In large organizations it is practically cer- tain that there vrould be enough matters coming up constantly to require conferences. He drew an analogy to his awn sit- uation in the iDederal Board where periodic conferences v/ere found to be indispensable. It was related how' a certain foreman had a library in a box outside his door. He made a practice of loaning these books out to the men. He had the names of the men on small wooden blocks. If a book v/as loaned there was a block put into its place to serve as a record. In order to stir up activity among the men he vp uld suggest to them that they prepare certain topics for meetings. If they were not pre- pared with the necessary information he would suggest that they refer to a certain book. / I t • I j 75 It ’7as pointed out that there are a number of free pf^raphlets that are better than text books v’hieh could be furnishod the men and ivhich vould be of considerable profit in ihc orexjaration of topics for discussion ixi their club activities. Qu es . (by Mr. Han ison) How about buying foreman traixii ng courses, such as those published by the Y. M. 0, n. , and others? Ans . A discussion brought out that these are likely to be of some value. It is also possible to bring in persons from the outside to give lectures, and it v/ouid be compar- atively easy to find many ways, of keeping the movement alive. It is necessary, ho’wever, to keep thinking ahead in the matter, since it is impos- sible to go on, if your mind is a blank as to future possibilities for development. Such a per- , son would be in the condition noted in the sketch which showed the man sailing around in a circle, ( See page 72 ) Mr. Evans related an experience in which he had taken clippings out of trade journals and syste;iat- ically filed them for future reference. He found that he soon had a wealth of material. Mr. Cushman was of the opinion that instead of the Educational Director ever getting to the point of saying "‘Yhat am I to do?”, he will find there are so many things coming up that he cannot possibly make use of them all in continuing his program. Cue G . (By Dr. Hurrell) iThy not get up a chart showing in detail the specific functions the Educational Director would have to perform in handling the pro- blem of foreman training and follow-up? Ans . (By Mr. Cushman) The layout, as given on Page 70, was developed specifically for such a case at the Minneapolis conference. A plant man wanted to knov; what to do with his iuTraediate ^problem. Con- sequently the group charted out a comprehensive program for him to follow. This layout has since been placed before similar groups for comment, and there has been practically a uianimous opinion to the effect that it applies rather well to the sit- uation in any plant. It was here pointed out that an outside man could not do all of the things indicated in the layout given. Mr. Cushman said that this layout was ohiefly valuable in v/hat it suggested. It could not be taken, of course, as representing a ha/rd and fast plan. V'.' \‘ fi I I O' \ f 0 if (ii > i w i n \ f- «> /<> 1 ■ " ^ 0 •t ■A’, 76 III discussing the responsibility of a public schtiol man in adrertising his services, it was pointed out thct,t ho had a definite responsibility to distribute his services, and to make acceptable his services to the plants. It was further stated that industry, as a rule, is likely to think of the public schools as they have formerly been conducted, rather than in their present situation of , helpfulness and developed availability for v/ider service. It was stated that the whole matter re- quires purposeful experimenting. There are a few examples which can be cited, and the most should be made of these in attempting to tie up the schools with industry. There is- a very definite need in industry for the services of the school men. Friday, October 27, 1922. ' In order to objectify the responsibilities of an educational man in the plant, Mr. Mann of the hew Jersey Zinc Company, indicated his relationship to the plant as follows : hew Jersey Sine Company Educational Director ban Ever ing Corre spond- ping Day School Sch ool ence Course Organize tion Marwigemont Supervision For, Trainin for (a) Foreman (b) Asst. Foreman Organization Management Supervisi on Instruction i^e commended for pro- motion For Helpers Mathematic c Chemistry Business English Organization Management Instruction Supervision Recommended for pro- motion Promotion j Follow-up j For: i All classes of work- ers 1 Making res-earch- es . Job Analysis Selection OC Placement I Boys for « research! depart- | ment . 4 It was pointed out that the training of boys within the plant affects the consumers of the articles which that plant produces, and that indirectly it is a charge upon society. Recognizing this to be true, the question was raised as to v/ha-t part of the entire job of training v/orkers cm best be done by the industry and v;hat part can best be assumed by the school. )y s'- < ‘ ) . * ^ S r» , / 77 - It sedmes reasonable to assume that out of the v/hole job of training v/orkers and future workers there would, by the very nature of the case, be a certain portion that could be done by industry itself to supplement the part that the schools are able to do and that the hearty co-operation of both is fundamental. In discussing foreman training Mr. Harrison, of the Karniaerraill Paper Company, voiced the opinion that the school should not train prospective foremen with the idea that industry should absorb the product at the end of the training period. He felt that the logical waynto attack the problem vms to start v/orkmen at the very bottom in the plant and let them gradually work up to foreman^ ip status. He further stated,, upon questioning, that when he said pub- lic school he did not mean that the services of the public school could not be utilized in the industry itself, but rather that he disfavored forem0.ii preparatory classes sep- arate from the plant. The Hammermill Company has put on two conferences, vdiich were conducted by the public vocational officials of the Federal and State Departments. Mr. Harrison stated that he would be glad to have the schools do more, but feared that the company itself v/ould have to do much of the job, since the local schools were not particularly anxious to undertake the v/ork at this time. Quos. (By Mr. Cushman) Is it the function of the public schools to continue the job of foreman training until every foreman in town is trained? Ans . (By Mr. Harrison) Yes. He further pointed out that there is a special advantage in having an outside man conduct at least the initial conference, be- cause when once the proposition is launched by an outside man, v;ho naturally has a different type of prestige in the matter, the local people would have an easier time in continuing the v;ork. There was an expression of the idea that the public school < as a neutral agency, would be better able to actually carry on some types of training than could either organized industry or organized labor. At this point there was a discussion of part-time co-operative work in the schools and plants. Mr. Evans voiced the belief that the first step in a training program, from the standpoint of the State or local authorities * should be to train the foreman on his job. Jhen he is once trained as a foreman, additional instruction can be imparted to him on the ways and means of teaching the young employes under him. It w/ill alv/ays be necessary for a fore- man to teach certain fundamental trade processes to the young employes, because no school is equipped to teach such things as shoe factory v/ork, etc., although some fairly good work ■ ■ '1 I ’ / >' ,1 70 has been done in 'such funaamental occupations as that of the machinist, the |)rint»iir, wtc. Ho further stated tnat tt is impossible at any time to get real production conditions in a school, Ivir. Jeffrey at xhis point stated v/hat he believes the plant desires of a school, f/fien an industrial establish ment needs a man it can, of course, go out and find one that has already been trained, but it usually v/ould rather develo some nan within its own plant. Industry is v;illing to give up a certain portion of the tii.e of its young employes in order that they may receive fundamental education in Llath- omatics, Hnglisli, and similar branches. There is a feeling, hov;ever, that if they release their employes for instruction during -vorhing hours on full pay, they could reasonably ex- pect the public schools to assist in the matter of instruc- tion. He also stated that he oelieves the field of evening training to be soinev/riat limited because of the long and arduous hours of eraplo^/ment that oxist in certain industries He felt that it \ 70 uld be consequently difficult to induce men who have homos that are scattered geographically and at some distance, to return for evening instruction. I.Ir. I.Iann, of the Hew Jersey Zinc Company, stated that he felt that industr;/ would welcome instruction in related work, provided the schools were equipped and willing to assume this task. gue s . Is it the function of uhe p)ubliG schools to assist educate plant employes? Mr. Mann, in answering this question, felt that as far as the company is concerned, they would be glad to have the pubiio schools help in any reason- able way. He stated that personally he would welcomo such services, but felt that the teacher should be a man selected from industry rather than that he be a man skilled onl7y^ in public school work. Mr. Hennis at this point made it plain that the word ''school” does not mean schoolhouse. He pointed out that the rosponsibili ty of the school ooitends far beyond the walls of the regular school building. Q,ues . (By Mr. Cushman) Arc th^re some things the schools can do more effectively and others that the plant can do in a similar manner? Ans . (By Mr. Mann) The plant has some ''institutional" training that it must give. He then illustrated bv tolling how certain banking houses give a def- inite amiu it of training to their employes. He felt that the schools have a field in the matter of training, hov/over. 79 It was pointed out "by Mr. Evans that the hoys at ?alraorton now get four hours a week in the plant. He raised ' the question as to hov/ much more time the plant would be will- ing to concede them for further instruction. In discussing this, Mr. Mann brought out that tneir own day school functions better for the boys who are labora- tory helpers than it does for the plant boys. It v;as pointed out that the co-operative arrangement would not appeal to beys in localities v/here the custom is to start to v/ork at an early age because the boys might be unwilling to lose half of their pay for attending school half-time. Mr, Cushman felt that as far as he was able to gather the discussion boils down to this statement; Industry, as represented here would be v/alling to accept more training from the public schools, than the public schools are now to furnish. He further stated that there were two extreme views in this conference, Eor example, Mr. Barri tt, of the 'iVestinghouse Electric Company, feels that it vo uld be well for them to train their own men, but that he would be glad to accept help and advice from outside. The other viev/, as voiced by Mr. Harrison, of the Hamraermill Paper Company, was that they are willing to accept outside service in training their foremen, to the extent that it is available. It was stated by Mr. Mann that he v,/ould like to have the public schools take over so much of the educational work for his plant that he would work himself out of a job. Mr, Cushman stated that this vma the point of view taken by an honest physician who strove to make his presence unnecessary in the case. This idea, if applied to foreman training, would indicate that we should all do our work so thoroughly in a locality that we would be no longer needed in that situation. Dr. Hurrell said that there were in evidence tw^o points of viev; of various school men: First; To set up a program in academic, industrirl, or other fields and then go out and create a demand for it. Second: To v/ait for industry to demand something and then set about to have the schools meet the demand, Mr. Dennis observed that this situation would seem to shov; that the industrial men and the school men v/ere each eyeing up the other for suggestions. He felt that in such a case the pressing need was for someone to set up machinery for a real working development. One of the industrial men present referred to a former statementt that the Federal Board for Vocational Education had been making rapid strides. He pointed out that this v/as 'Undoubtedly true, and that as i.i- dustry was also growing by leaps and bounds, in order to ad- equately cover the situation in industrial training, some means of stimulating greater co-operation must be found. - eo - Mr. Harrison stated that he could not soe how Industry could be expected to go to the schools for aid, because industry as a whole has very little conception of what the schools, as now constituted, can do, and that therefore, in order to get action, it will be necessary ! for the schools to bring this instructional opportunity to the attention of plant men every’vhere. He stated that ordinarily industry, when it sees a job that needs to be done, will address itself to getting that thing accomp- lished, and would not be willing to wait around until de- cisions are forthcoming from the local school authorities. It v;as stated by Mr. Dushman that, as he viev/ed the function of the federal Board for Vocational Education regarding industry, he could see a need for promotion at largo, but that the local State promotion is up to the vocational training interests in the separate States. As an example of how foreman training in the paper industry started, he stated that the first work was done through contact between the National Organization of Eulp and Paper Companies and the Federal Board for Vocational Education. It was pointed out that the paper interests have been in- terested in instituting courses of training in the schools. At the present time there is an instance of this in the University of Ivlaine , where there is being given a course along the lines of paper making. A number of the school men present related ex- periences in their attempts to get the local superintendents and school boards interested in an extension of the activities of the public schools to include specific training in the in- dustries. It was stated how in one large city the Director of Vocational Education was accused by the board of trying to build up a big job for himself. He then conceived the notion of going to a local chain company, that desired some training assistance, and stimulating them to make a direct request to the Board of Education. Results were immediately forthcoming, and it was pointed out that this experience is typical. It was further brought out that when industry brings pressure on school boards for assistance in training there is little doubt but that they will get the desired help. The necessity for local Vocational Directors to get in touch with personnel men in the plants was pointed out. Dr, 3mit|i, of the University of Pittsburgh, outlined his notion of the situation by stating that the local Superin- tendent of Schools has no money with which to extend his ordi- nary activities. Taxes are high almost everyv/hore, and the local superintendent has a fight on his hands to keep roofs over the children's heads. He has a very pressing problem, and the person who can get him to see that he should go out into industry and extend his field of usefulness under these conditions, would have to be a very good salesman, indeed. On the other hand, the Superintendent knows that the success -I \ .1 ' i ! / I G1 of a school system depends upon the measure of service that it aelivers to the people. Since an industrial plant represents a considerable unit of the people, it is likely to get more consideration from the Superin- tendent and Board of Education when it makes a request for assistance in training, than as though the Director of Vocational Education should come to them for action upon this problem. Consequently it will be necessary, for a time, that industry make its v/ants knov/n to the school districts in order to get action from those persons in the schools charged with the handling of public funds. Dr. Rowland, of the Department of .Public Instruction, gave an interesting discussion at this time concerning the relations between the schools and industry. He raised the question as to whether in- dustry might not be willing to make ..addi ti onal funds available to the school district In order that the schools might render this additional service. Mr. Cushman cited several instances where industrial concerns have voluntarily submitted to a special tax for such a purpose. In Indianapolis there is a Typothetae School which is supported, for the greater part, by the national Association of Printers. The building in v/hich it is held is fur- nished oy the local Board of Education. It was pointed out in this connection that the industrial training system in Germany is subsi- dized partly by the unions, and at times by the em- ployers . Mr. Harrison, of the Hammermill Paper Company stated that he feels that the v;ay has now been pointed out in which industry shall approach the Boards of Education for assistance in industrial training- He stated that he has always found industry to be willing to assist financially where necessary* He expressed himself as being very much pleased v/ith this discussion and that he felt that something definite had come out of it. GoncluGions 1. That foremen conferences are effective for instructional purposes as attested to by plant officials and foremen where confer- ences have been held. H. That instruction of some kind is necessary for all green employees whether they be workmen on the job or foremen. That such instruction is a concern of the pub- lic for it must be paid for either out of the sale price of the goods or by public education agencies. 3, Tiiat school people and persons in industry should co-operate closely in order that the best possible training may be made available to employed persons. 4. That conferences such as this one are nec- essary in order that school people and people from industry may analyze and study educational problems in v/hich both are vitally concerned. 5. That there are distinct contributions that should be made in part by school people, and in part by persons within the indus- trial organizations. 6. That industry welcomes assistance, and v/ants to work with disinterested educational agencies, such as the public schools. That it is the business of the public schools to teach workers in industry by means of evening and part-time classes in the school houses, in the plants, or at any convenient places 4 (* > I I 8* That a complete educational program in a large plant may v/ell begin with confer- ences similar to those conducted in this State at the Hammer mi 11 Paper Com- pany and at the A. AL Collins Manufac- turing Company's plant, and that they may well be follovved up by classes of a technical nature and in some cases by other instructive meetings for all em- ployees as well as by a continuation of the conference idea through fore- men's clubs, etc. 9. That the local public education agencies and through them the Department of Public Instruction should arrange for demonstration conferences in individ- ual plants in order to promote certain phases of the program of industrial education to a point where industry is able to take up the thread and continue the program ’'dthin its own organizations. 10. That the smaller plants especially need assistance in such training programs, and that the local and state industrial educational agencies are able to be of assistance in this. 11. That the three industrial teacher training institutions in this State have a res- ponsibility for training conference leaders as a phase of teacher training. 'I .1 ■jj i’; vi