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 FACTS AND FIGURES 
 
 ABOUT 
 
 CHURCH AND DISSENT 
 IN WALES. 
 
 BY 
 
 THE REV. ALFRED G. EDWARDS, M.A., 
 
 VICAR OF CARMARTHEN, 
 LATE WARDEN OF LLANDOVERY COLLEGE. 
 
 PEICE SIXPENCE. 
 
 CARMARTHEN : 
 
 WILLIAM JAMES MORGAN, "WELSHMAN" PRINTING OFFICE, LAMMAS STREET. 

 
 The following Letters are reprinted from The 
 Times, and the Lecture, delivered at Leeds, from 
 The Welshman. The writer wishes to add that 
 all the figures have been taken from official 
 records, and that not one figure has yet been 
 proved inaccurate or unauthentic. Some fresh 
 information is given in the Appendices. 
 
 J
 
 WELSH NONCONFORMITY. 
 
 To tie Editor of the " Times." 
 
 SiE, — Welsh Churcliinen are much indebted to Lord 
 Selborne and The Times for having called the attention of 
 the British public to the state of the Church in Wales. 
 It is related that at a certain European Congress the island 
 of Java was ceded to the Dutch because the English Pleni- 
 potentiary present, ashamed to display his ignorance of its 
 whereabouts, sacrificed this valuable possession. We may 
 now hope that the Welsh Church has been saved from a 
 similar fate. The diffusion of accurate information is 
 obviously so important that I ask you to publish these 
 facts and statistics relating to the Welsh Calvinistic 
 Methodists, in all respects the most important Noncon- 
 formist body in Wales. 
 
 I. Lord Selborne has already made known the views of 
 the founders of Welsh Methodism with regard to the Church. 
 This argument — which you justly describe as one of senti- 
 ment — I would ask leave to fortify by the following 
 quotation from "The Eules, &c., of the Welsh Methodists 
 read and agreed upon in their quarterly association " at 
 Bala, June, 1801 :— 
 
 We do not designedly dissent or look upon ourselves as dissenters 
 from the Established Church. In doctrine we exactly agree with the 
 Articles of the Church of England, and preach no other doctrines but 
 what are contained and fully and clearly expressed in them. We highly 
 approve of her excellent and most evangelical Liturgy. . . . Making 
 a sect or forming a party is not the object we are aiming at. God forbid ! 
 
 II. The following statistics, taken from the official year 
 books of the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist body, are very 
 important. The total number of communicants admitted 
 by the whole Welsh Methodist body in the year 1884 was 
 10,655; in 1885 it was 7,723; and in 1886 it was 6,401. 
 The decrease here is large and steady. The total number
 
 of hearers (^.^., all who attend the chapels) in 1877 is 
 given as 275,406, and in 1886 as 277,147. This shows 
 for the last ten years an increase of only 1,741. It is also 
 note-worthy that the number of hearers for 1886 is less by 
 892 than the number returned for 1 885. 
 
 To pass from numbers to finance, I find from the same 
 official authority that the total sum collected by the whole 
 Welsh Methodist body in 1884, was £173,845; in 1885, 
 £172,012; and in 1886, £167,794. Here again the 
 decrease in receipts is regular and serious. The receipts 
 for 1878 were actually larger than in 1886. But the most 
 remarkable fact recorded in the official year-book is the 
 rapid growth of the debt on the chapels. In the year 
 1878 the chapel debt was £246,926; in 1881, £311,294; 
 and in 1886, £323,118. The sura of money devoted to 
 paying off the chapel debt in 1878 was £43,508, and this 
 sum has been steadily decreasing until, in 1886, only 
 £31,440 was given to this purpose — that is to say, that 
 while the chapel debt has been increasing rapidly, the 
 annual contributions towards its liquidation have decreased 
 as rapidly. 
 
 To summarize, the statements published and authorized 
 by the Methodist body themselves prove that the number 
 of communicants annually admitted and the total annual 
 receipts of money have both steadily decreased, while the 
 chapel debt has grown into what their own Moderator 
 described as ''a terrible difficulty." 
 
 While I fully recognize the zeal and liberality of the 
 Welsh Methodists, I cannot help feeling that they would 
 act more wisely by coming back to '' the old fold " than by 
 seeking to involve the Church in entanglements similar to 
 their own. 
 
 Your obedient servant, 
 
 A. a. EDWAEDS. 
 
 October 31st, 1887. 
 
 , uiuc ^
 
 To the Editor of tie "Times." 
 
 Sir, — I yenture once more to trouble you witli statis- 
 tics on this important subject. 
 
 (1) The official reports of the Welsh Calvinistic 
 Methodists, quoted in my last letter, established these 
 facts — viz., that since 1884 the number of communicants 
 annually admitted has decreased by 4,254, that last year 
 shows a decrease of 892 in the total number of hearers, 
 and that last year their total receipts were less than in 
 1878 and £6,051 less than in 1884. 
 
 Before I give further facts, this statement is necessary. 
 The last official report gives the total communicants on the 
 roll as 129,458, and the hearers as 277,147, for the whole 
 Welsh Calvinistic Methodist body. This is how the 
 Methodist statistics are compiled. A printed form is 
 yearly sent to each chapel with a request that it be filled 
 in by the time the two scrutineers, appointed annually to 
 inspect the records of every chapel, come round. 
 '* Hearers " on this form — before me as I write — are 
 thus defined — viz., ''All who attend the chapel meetings 
 (members and hearers who are not members ; children and 
 adults), although they are not all present at the same 
 time." Some year ago I asked one of the most infiuential 
 Methodists in Wales, who had himself recently acted as 
 scrutineer, how it was that the proportion of communicants 
 to hearers was so abnormally large. His reply was as 
 follows : — 
 
 ''My experience is that the communicants' roll in 
 every chapel is unreliable, because a percentage — in many 
 cases as high as 25 per cent. — of names that ought to have 
 been erased are left on the register." He added, " The 
 most reliable statistic in our returns is that of the number 
 of communicants annually admitted." 
 
 I now proceed to give from the official reports some 
 additional and suggestive facts. The Welsh Methodists
 
 have two periodicals, anthorized and circulated by the 
 denomination — viz., Y Drysorfa (for adults) and Trysorfa 
 Plant (for children). The estimated profits for the first 
 of these has fallen from £398 2s. 4d. in 1878 to 
 £356 13s. 8d. in 1886, and for the latter from 
 £725 18s. lid. in 1878 to £622 5s. Id. in 1886. 
 The total contributions to the ministry were in 1884 
 £74,068, in 1885 £73,595, and in 1886 £72,167, a drop 
 of nearly £2,000 in two years, although the ministry 
 meantime increased in number. At the General Assembly 
 last May the specially appointed Chapel Debt Committee 
 reported that the personal appeal for subscriptions 
 throughout Wales had been unsuccessful, and that in 
 their opinion ^^ the question of the chapel debt had lost 
 none of its gravity, but deserved the most earnest attention 
 of the General Assembly." Lastly, I call special atten- 
 tion to this fact. The increase reported in the total 
 number of hearers in the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist 
 body from 1877 to 1887 is only 1,741, while the number 
 of new chapels reported to have been opened during that 
 time is 171, or a new chapel for every ten new hearers. 
 
 (2) I now pass on to the Baptists in Wales. My 
 
 authorities here are the "Baptist Hand Book" — the 
 
 official year-book for the Baptist Union of Great Britain 
 
 and Ireland — and the small ofiicial " Hand Book " in 
 
 Welsh for Wales. Wales is divided into 12 Baptist 
 
 Associations, and in two only of these do I find a full 
 
 financial statement. In the West Glamorgan Association 
 
 the chapel debt in 1885 was £38,660, the sum paid off 
 
 (that year) £3,329, and the interest paid was £1,758. In 
 
 1886 these three items stood respectively at £34,330, 
 
 £1,883, and £1,421, a sensible decrease in the sum paid 
 
 off. Again, in the East Glamorgan Association the 
 
 chapel debt in 1885 was £42,247; paid off, £4,220; 
 
 interest paid, £1,782; and in 1886 these three items
 
 stood at <£44,017j £3,097, £1,535 — i.e.^ an increase in the 
 debt and a decrease in the sum paid off and in the interest 
 paid. There were for all Wales in 1883 422 Baptist 
 pastors, in 1884 and 1885 there were 373, and in 1886 
 there were 366. This is a striking decrease. Again, the 
 number of members for the whole of Wales in 1883 was 
 73,748, and the chapel sittings 231,464; in 1884 was 
 72,711, and the chapel sittings 230,023; in 1885 it was 
 73,828, and the chapel sittings 240,595; and in 1886 it 
 was 73,156, and the chapel sittings 241,615 — a decrease in 
 the total number of members during the four years and 
 an increase of 10,151 in the chapel sittings provided. 
 Lastly, the number of those baptized in the whole of 
 Wales was— in 1884, 4,961; in 1885, 4,818; and in 
 1886, 4,529, a steady and unmistakable decrease in the 
 most significant and reliable item of the Baptist statistics. 
 
 (3) The '' Official Hand Book '' for the Welsh Congre- 
 gationalists is the Dyddiadur Annilynol. The number of 
 members, Sunday-school scholars, and hearers is returned 
 as exactly the same for 1884, 1885, and 1886. This 
 absolutely stationary condition of the denomination seemed 
 to me so remarkable that I communicated with the editor, 
 who courteously informed me the returns were correct. 
 He also added that the numbers had remained the same 
 since 1881. I am correct in stating that the general 
 belief in Wales is that the Congregationalists are decreas- 
 ing more rapidly than any other sect in Wales ; this is 
 largely owing to the dissension about the proposed new 
 constitution. Here I may add that the Athraw and 
 Dysgedydd — the Baptist and Congregational periodicals — 
 are steadily decreasing in circulation. 
 
 (4) ^^The Minutes of Conference" — the Wesleyan year- 
 book — show that that body numbered in the three Welsh 
 Circuits 22,270 members in 1884, 22,079 in 1885, and
 
 8 
 
 22,087 in 1886. The decrease since 1884 is not large. 
 The Wesleyans are not a numerous body in Wales. 
 
 (5) It is desirable to make known some historical facts 
 about the Church in Wales. Mr. H. Eichard, M.P., 
 states that '' l^onconformity in Wales originated in the 
 reign of Charles I.," and that ''the Church is an alien 
 institution obtruded on the country from without." These 
 are the facts. Calvinistic and Wesleyan Methodism are 
 the growth of this century, and the following statement 
 which I have compiled from the official year-books proves 
 that before the Methodist revival the Baptists and Congre- 
 gationalists were " a feeble folk," and practically owe their 
 rise and spread in Wales to a movement which derived its 
 inspiration and founders from the Church. The total num- 
 ber of Baptist and Congregational chapels founded in 
 Wales between the years 1650-1700 was 36, between 
 1700-1750 was 37, and between 1750-1800, when the 
 Methodist revival began, the number rose to 133. 
 
 Mr. Stuart Eendel, M.P., states ''that Nonconformity 
 evangelized Wales and rendered the Welsh people the 
 most loyal, orderly, and religious of the four nations, 
 whereas the Church, prior to IN'onconformity, had reduced 
 Wales to almost heathenism." On the other hand, all the 
 evidence goes to show that the Welsh people were then 
 quite as honest, peaceable, and religious as their neighbours. 
 At the present time the wildest Socialism and the most 
 reckless lawlessness are every week openly advocated in 
 Welsh newspapers edited by Nonconformists. 
 
 To summarize, the facts given here confirm the state- 
 ment made by a prominent Methodist minister at the last 
 General Assembly — viz., "that all the Nonconformist 
 denominations in Wales are at the present time decreasing " 
 — and clearly prove that the voluntary principle is unable 
 to bear the strain put upon it. 
 
 But the following extract from a speech made at the 
 recent Aberystwith Association by the Eev. W. John, an
 
 9 
 
 eminent Methodist minister, points to a still more serious 
 deterioration. He said : — 
 
 Is there not reason to fear that this levity like a destroying plague is 
 entering our chapels? What is this irreverence, even to impiety, at our 
 sacred ordinances? ^N'o pretence, much less feeling, of devotion in our 
 worship ! The Throne of Grace is approached in prayer, only a few bowing 
 the head, much less bending the knee. Why, even the minister engaged 
 in prayer is disturbed by the whisperings from the deacons' seat, where the 
 plans of the week are being discussed. 
 
 Your obedient servant, 
 
 A. G. EDWAEDS. 
 Vicarage, Carmarthen, Nov. 10. 
 
 To the Editor of the ''Times." 
 
 Sir, — Official statistics, quoted in two previous letters, 
 have established the fact that every Welsh Nonconformist 
 denomination in Wales is now on the decrease. With 
 your permission I would once more give extracts from the 
 official Nonconformist reports bearing upon these two 
 points — viz., (1) the alleged difficulty which the Non- 
 conformists experience in Wales in obtaining from 
 Churchmen sites for their chapels; (2) the spread of 
 English throughout Wales, and the inability of the 
 Nonconformists to provide services in that language. I 
 shall be able to show that the last point is recognised by 
 the Dissenters as the most important question of the day 
 for Welsh Nonconformity. 
 
 1. In one of the Letters from Wales which have 
 appeared in your columns, these quotations are given 
 from the Baner^ edited by the Eev. Thomas Gee, a 
 Calvinistic Methodist minister: — ''As the greater part 
 of the landlords are zealous Churchmen and Tories, 
 they are the implacable enemies of the Nonconformists. 
 There are to-day scores of parishes in which there
 
 10 
 
 is not one Nonconformist chapel ; the only reason 
 for that is that not an inch of land can be had for the 
 purpose." Again, ^'It appears that over 2,000 Methodist 
 chapels alone depend for their existence on the good will of 
 the landowners." 
 
 I will take the last quotation first. In this year's 
 official report for the whole Calvinistic Methodist body 
 in Wales the following facts are stated on pages 37 
 to 44. In 1882 a committee was appointed by the 
 General Assembly to report upon the whole property 
 belonging to the Methodists. Their report (given on page 
 37) states that the Calvinistic Methodists have 1,252 
 chapels ; 652 are freehold and 600 are leasehold. Of the 
 latter in 1883 there were 347 leases which would ter- 
 minate by the year 2,000, and the total number of chapels 
 in 1883 for which there was neither deed nor lease was 
 46. Since then nine of this number have been converted 
 into freeholds and three into leaseholds, thus reducing 
 the total for which there is neither deed nor lease to 34. 
 The mind naturally compares 34 with 2,000, and the 
 judgment consigns the writer in the Baner to the torture 
 of these official figures. But I return to the first quota- 
 tion. Since 1883 the Methodists have made an effort to 
 convert their leaseholds into freeholds and to secure 
 freehold sites for their new chapels and ministers' houses. 
 The results of that effort are given in the same report. 
 Out of seven chapels converted from leaseholds into 
 freeholds since 1883, five of these concessions have been 
 obtained from Churchmen, one being from a Welsh arch- 
 deacon. Since 1883 sites for a minister's house in one 
 parish, for a schoolroom in another, and for a new chapel 
 in a third have been given to the Methodists by large 
 landowners, all three of whom are Churchmen. If it is at 
 all necessary to fortify these official Methodist statements, 
 I may add that I well remember years ago hearing it said
 
 11 
 
 by Churchmen of the late Sir "Watkin — a Churchman, a 
 Tory, and the largest landowner in Wales — that he was so 
 anxious to be fair to the Nonconformists that it was almost 
 easier to get a site for a chapel than for a church from 
 him. 
 
 2. I started by saying that the spread of English in 
 Wales is the most important question of the day for 
 Welsh Nonconformists. The Calvinistic Methodists in 
 their official report for 1882 say, '' We cannot maintain 
 our hold upon the country unless we win the towns, and 
 this can only be done through the English language." 
 Again, in 1888, they state in their official report, ''That 
 the weightiest subject of the day appertaining to the 
 Methodist denomination is the spread of English through 
 Wales ; " and that year a formal resolution was passed 
 " That the English causes [i.e.^ in Wales) shall from hence- 
 forth receive the special attention of every General 
 Assembly." In the Baptist year-book for 1878 this 
 statement is made: — ''We cannot shut our eyes to the 
 fact that in many districts (in Wales) the use of the 
 Welsh language is decreasing. Like the flow of the tide, 
 the English language is advancing in the Principality. If 
 the Nonconformists in Wales will not or cannot meet the 
 requirements that will follow the change of languages, 
 the power of Nonconformity will be diminished." 
 
 From the Congregational year-book it appears that 
 English Congregational Unions have been established for 
 South and North (in 1876) Wales, because " a large pro- 
 portion of the rising generation in Wales are being trans- 
 formed into English-speaking people." The following 
 statistics, taken from the official year-books of the three 
 chief denominations in Wales, prove that the Noncon- 
 formists are unable to provide those English services the 
 need and importance of which they themselves fully 
 recognize. 
 
 [a) The full statistics for 1881 (then first publised) for
 
 12 
 
 the English Calvinistic Methodist causes in Wales show 
 that the total number of English chapels was that year 
 103 {i.e., 45 in North and 58 in South Wales); 
 of communicants, 4,290 {i.e., 1,770 in North Wales, 2,520 
 in South Wales); of hearers, 13,889 {i.e., 6,056 in North 
 Wales, 7,833 in South Wales); the total contributions to 
 the ministry, £4,924 18s. 5d. {i.e., £2,703 17s. 8d. in 
 North Wales, £2,221 Os. 9d. in South Wales); and the 
 total receipts, £11,500 13s. 5d. {i.e., £6,394 6s. 4d. in 
 North Wales, £5,106 7s. Id. in South Wales). 
 
 This year's statistics, which give the results of the 
 strenuous efforts for the last five years of the Methodists 
 to extend their ^' English causes," are as follows : — The 
 total number of chapels is now 114 {i.e., 49 for North 
 Wales, and 65 for South Wales); of communicants, 6,079 
 {i.e., 2,403 for North Wales, and 3,676 for South Wales); 
 of hearers, 17,772 {i.e., 7,209 for North Wales, and 10,563 
 for South Wales) ; the total contributions to the ministry, 
 £6,485 13s. 6d. {i.e., £3,338 17s. lid. for North Wales, 
 and £3,146 15s. 7d. for South Wales); and the total 
 receipts, £14,179 4s. lid. {i.e., £7,423 17s. for North 
 Wales, £6,755 7s. lid. for South Wales). 
 
 At the lowest computation, 600,000 people now worship 
 in English in Wales. Of this number the Methodist 
 communicants average one per cent. The annual increase 
 for the whole of Wales in the English Methodist com- 
 municants averages 357. The Church could show a 
 larger increase for the same period in two towns in Wales 
 than Methodism can show in the whole Principality. Well 
 may the official report (for 1886) regret this slow progress, 
 ^' which ought to be much greater in proportion to the 
 territory that has to be acquired." 
 
 {h) The statistics for the Baptist English causes in 
 Wales show that the number of chapel sittings in Wales 
 was 48,063 (5,480 North Wales, 42,583 South Wales) in
 
 13 
 
 1885, and 47,642 (5,350 North Wales, 42,292 South 
 Wales) in 1887; the number of members, 14,349 (1,124 
 North Wales, 13,225 South Wales) in 1885, and 13,548 
 (1,040 North Wales, 12,508 South Wales) in 1887 ; and 
 the number of Sunday school scholars, 17,879 (1,656 
 North Wales, 16,223 South Wales) in 1885, and 17,299 
 (1,573 North Wales, 15,726 South Wales) in 1887. These 
 statistics, taken from the Baptist official year-books for 
 1885 and 1887 show an all-round decrease. If we leave 
 out Montgomeryshire, the Baptists are practically non- 
 existent as an English body in North Wales. 
 
 (<?) The Congregational year-book does not give any 
 detailed account of the ^'English causes" in Wales, but 
 it states that there are ninety-three Congregational ministers 
 who minister in English in Wales. I find that the number 
 of Congregational ministers who minister exclusively in 
 English in North Wales is twenty-one. These figures are 
 enough to prove that the Congregational '' English causes" 
 in Wales are not numerous. And it is w^ell known that 
 the Congregational ''English causes" are weaker than 
 those of the other denominations in Wales. 
 
 While I gladly recognize the excellent work done by the 
 Nonconformists, more especially the Calvinistic Methodists, 
 for Wales in the past hundred years, I am compelled by 
 their own statistics to state that their influence is declining. 
 At the beginning of this century the Church, by her 
 neglect of the Welsh language, lost the Welsh people, and 
 now the spread of English seems to have a similar fate in 
 store for Welsh Nonconformity, and threatens to leave its 
 ministers like infants 
 
 " Crying in the night 
 And with no language but a cry." 
 
 Your obedient servant, 
 
 A. G. EDWARDS. 
 
 Vicarage, Carmarthen, 
 Jan. 3rd, 1888.
 
 THE RELIGIOUS CONDITION OF WALES. 
 
 To the Editor of the *' Times." 
 
 SiE, — A ^' "Welsh Liberal Unionist," writing on this 
 subject, quotes statistics to show that Calvinistic 
 Methodism in Wales is not declining, and states that his 
 statistics, ^' effectually annihilate the ingenious and base- 
 less theories propounded in your columns." May I be 
 allowed to reply to this statement with facts and official 
 statistics ? 
 
 The total number of communicants and the total 
 amount annually collected are the two statistical items 
 upon which your correspondent relies. Both are unreliable. 
 A Methodist scrutineer, previously quoted, stated that 
 neglected erasures and double entries, resulting from the 
 frequent removals common in a working population, 
 explain quite fairly the unreliability of the first. The 
 admitted test of Church work in a diocese is the number 
 of those annually confirmed, and just so the sure and 
 infallible test of the increase or decrease of Welsh 
 Methodism is the number of those annually admitted as 
 communicants. The number of communicants admitted 
 by the Welsh Calvinistic Methodists in 1875 was 11,127, 
 and in 1876 was 10,240, while in 1886, the latest return, it 
 was only 6,401. How to reconcile this large decrease in 
 the source of supply with the unbroken annual increase 
 alleged by your correspondent is to me a difficulty which 
 even ''ingenious arguments and baseless theories cannot 
 effectually annihilate." Nor, again, is the amount 
 annually collected a certain proof of growth or decline. 
 True, "manufactured statistics do not contribute large 
 sums of money," but candidates for Parliamentary honours 
 do, who, though not Methodists themselves, willingly and
 
 15 
 
 bountifully support a religious denomination whose influ- 
 ence in recent years has been great politically. But even 
 thus the financial record is not altogether favourable. 
 The following official statistics for the last three years 
 will show whether Methodism is or is not declining at the 
 present time : — 
 
 Year 
 
 1884 
 1885 
 
 ISS6 
 
 No. of ^ 
 Communi- 
 cants , T.T- • . 
 Admitted Mmistry 
 
 Contributions 
 to the 
 
 10,655 
 
 7,723 
 6,401 
 
 £ s. d 
 
 74,068 7 I 
 
 73,595 13 II 
 
 72,167 9 3 
 
 Contributions 
 
 to 
 
 Missions 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 7,380 9 I 
 
 7,071 16 10 
 
 6,805 6 4 
 
 Contributions 
 
 to 
 Chapel Debt 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 35,896 8 6 
 
 35,667 5 2 
 
 31,440 7 10 
 
 Total 
 
 Collected for 
 
 all objects 
 
 £ s. d. 
 
 173,845 15 6 
 
 172,012 o 7 
 
 167,794 13 10 
 
 I doubt whether even " Celtic ardour and imaginative 
 temperaments" can "avail against these hard and stub- 
 born facts," to which I will add one other still more 
 stubborn. Last year the Calvinistic Methodists of North 
 Wales, which is the stronghold of Welsh Methodism, 
 appointed at their quarterly meeting a committee tu report 
 upon the decline in the number of Methodist members. 
 That report (published in full in the Goleuad of November 
 19th) was read and adopted at the quarterly meeting of 
 the North Wales Methodists held at Llandudno on the 9th 
 of last November, and gives the following, among others, 
 as the causes of the decrease apparent in the number of 
 Welsh Methodists — viz., neglect of the poor, and the 
 removal from the list of members of those too poor to con- 
 tribute to the support of "the cause," and the efforts of 
 those who, though calling themselves Christians, entice 
 away their members from the Methodists. Perhaps a 
 " Welsh Liberal Unionist " will kindly explain why a 
 religions body which he alleges have increased every year 
 without a single halt or break should appoint a committee 
 to examine into and report upon the decrease apparent in 
 the number of their members.
 
 16 
 
 It is not fair or accurate to describe the "Welsh Cal- 
 vinistic Methodists as '^ most aggressive." Such a descrip- 
 tion may be true of that section of Welsh Methodists 
 whose views are expounded by the editor of the Baner, 
 but it is very far from true of the more thoughtful and more 
 influential section of Welsh Methodists, whose leader and 
 spokesman would be Principal Edwards, of Aberystwith, 
 whom Earl Spencer with justice recently described as 
 ^' that truly great man." I believe Principal Edwards has 
 never appeared upon a Disestablishment platform in Wales, 
 and though he and his followers may be opposed to the 
 Church Establishment, they must be classified with those 
 whom the Bishop of Eochester in his Christmas pastoral 
 describes as ^^ the religious opponents of national and 
 established Churches." And without expressing any 
 opinion of my own on this question, I venture to think 
 that these are the men whose opposition Church defenders 
 in Wales have most reason to respect and fear. 
 
 Your correspondent's description of the Church in 
 Welsh rural districts is open to question. Having resided 
 for considerable periods in each of the four Welsh dioceses, 
 I can only say that my experience is quite at variance 
 with his. On the other hand, I recognize the fact that 
 until recent years the Church was weakest in the purely 
 Welsh districts. The explanation is very simple and cannot 
 be too widely known. During the 100 years (1750-1850) 
 when Nonconformity gained a foothold in Wales the 
 Bishops without an exception and nearly all the dignitaries 
 of the Church in Wales could not speak what was then 
 the one language of the people. A parallel can hardly be 
 found to the state of the Church during that century in 
 Wales, where in a block of four conterminous dioceses the 
 people literally spoke one language and their Fathers in 
 God another. But all this has been removed by a remedy 
 complete and twofold. Twenty years ago due recognition
 
 17 
 
 of the claims of the Welsh language was secured by the 
 movement which the late Dean of Bangor set on foot and 
 which he made his life's work, and in recent years, when 
 every parish has come under the operation of Mr. Forster's 
 Education Act, the linguistic conditions have so completely 
 changed that, though a Welsh -speaking Welshman myself, 
 I do not hesitate to state that at present the insistance 
 upon a knowledge of Welsh for all lay and clerical offices 
 in Wales is an unwise attempt to wipe out old scores by a 
 post-dated cheque. If at a later date I am allowed to 
 publish statistics of the progress of the Church in Wales, 
 those statistics will show that the progress of the Church 
 in the purely Welsh districts is now quite as great as your 
 correspondent correctly and generously represents it to 
 have been in the towns. 
 
 The Church in Wales requires now no better defence 
 than that the British public should know "the whole 
 truth," and Welsh Churchmen can never be too grateful 
 to The Times for the publicity given to information about 
 Wales. In answer to numerous critics in the Welsh 
 vernacular Press, I would venture to point out that the 
 very commonplace bit of drudgery of reproducing official 
 statistics does not deserve the epithets of "ingenious/' 
 "clever," "fanciful," or even "disingenuous," and that 
 such statistics, until proved inaccurate or not genuine, 
 remain unanswered. 
 
 Your obedient servant, 
 
 A. G. EDWAEDS. 
 
 Vicarage, Carmarthen, Jan. 19, 1888. 
 
 k
 
 THE CHURCH IN WALES. 
 
 LECTUEE AT LEEDS. 
 
 The last lecture of the season in connection with the 
 Leeds Church Society was delivered in the Tennant Hall, 
 Leeds, on Tuesday evening, by the Eev. A G. Edwards, 
 vicar of Carmarthen, the subject being '^Some Fictions, 
 Figures, and Facts about the Church in Wales." The 
 chair was taken by Mr. W. Bruce, stipendiary for Leeds. 
 
 Mr. Edwards said — It is not my purpose to discuss 
 to-day the general question of Disestablishment and 
 Disendowment, but simply to deal seriatim with the 
 specific arguments which the recognised advocates of 
 Welsh disestablishment have formulated against that 
 Church. English Churchmen may fairly be urged 
 to examine the case of the Church in Wales. The 
 Welsh Church, the first outpost singled for attack in 
 the general disestablishment compaign, contends for a 
 fate and fortune greater than her own, and, once the 
 enemy are masters of this outwork, the capture of the 
 main citadel will quickly follow. The first charge against 
 the Church is that of alienism, thus stated by Mr. Henry 
 Eichard, M.P. : " The truth is that the Church of England 
 in Wales has been throughout its whole history an alien 
 church, the church of the conqueror and invader, and that 
 mark is branded upon it indelibly." The proofs adduced 
 for this statement by Mr. Henry Eichard and Mr. Stuart 
 Eendel are that Norman bishops were forced upon the 
 Church in Wales, that after the Eeformation the Latin 
 ritual was exchanged not for a Welsh but an English one, 
 and not until James' reign was the Bible even translated 
 into Welsh, and that since 1745 Englishmen were appointed 
 to Welsh bishoprics. True, Norman bishops were forced 
 upon Wales and England, and so far the Church in England 
 is just as alien as the Church in Wales. The next state-
 
 19 
 
 ment, viz., that the Latin ritual was exchanged for an 
 English one, and that the Bible was not even translated 
 until James' reign would be forcible if it were not ab- 
 solutely untrue. The Book of Common Prayer and the 
 'New Testament were published in Welsh in 1567, and the 
 Old Testament in 1588. I may say more later on as to 
 the English bishops in Wales. Meanwhile, I point out 
 that the appointment of Englishmen to Welsh sees within 
 recent times no more proves the Church to be alien than 
 the selection of Englishmen as Members of Parliament by 
 some of the Welsh constituencies proves that the whole 
 electoral system in Wales is alien. So much then on the 
 fictions for alienism. IN'ow for the facts against it. I begin 
 with Mr. Gladstone's statement in the House of Commons 
 in 1874 — "It is a proposition completely sustained by 
 history that the people of Wales were the staunchest 
 Churchmen in the country, as long as their Church was 
 administered in the spirit of sympathy to their national 
 feelings." There are now extant two books of official 
 records which give returns of the number of families in 
 each parish, and the number of communicants at Easter. 
 These returns are for the diocese of St. Asaph in 1749, and 
 for the archdeaconry of Carmarthen in 1710. I give the 
 figures for a dosen parishes in each, merely adding that 
 they are not above the general average in either case, and 
 that they are taken indiscriminately. I begin with St. 
 Asaph — 
 
 
 
 Communicants 
 
 
 Families 
 
 at Easter 
 
 Rhuddlan 
 
 ... 200 ... 
 
 500 to 600 
 
 Bodfari 
 
 103 ... 
 
 200 
 
 Caerwys 
 
 ... 170 ... 
 
 300 
 
 Ysceifiog: 
 
 ... 140 ... 
 
 240 
 
 Holywell 
 
 ... 500 ... 
 
 500 
 
 Denbigh 
 
 ... 386 ... 
 
 600 
 
 Eglwysfach .. 
 
 213 
 
 400 
 
 Hope 
 
 330 
 
 220 
 
 Mold 
 
 ... 712 ... 
 
 647 
 
 Llangollen 
 
 ... 400 ... 
 
 625 
 
 Meifod 
 
 220 
 
 350 
 
 Machynlleth .. 
 
 ... 300 ... 
 
 400
 
 20 
 
 I now go to the Carmartlien record, compiled with great 
 care, and, as far as it now can be tested, with the greatest 
 accuracy, by the Venerable Edward Tenison, Archdeacon 
 of Carmarthen, who began his Visitation in 1710 : — 
 
 
 
 Communicants 
 
 
 Families 
 
 at Easter 
 
 Llannewydd 
 
 40 
 
 100 
 
 Abernant 
 
 70 ... 
 
 140 
 
 Llanpurapsaint ... 
 
 29 
 
 40 
 
 Merthyr 
 
 30 ... 
 
 60 
 
 Llanegwad 
 
 203 ... 
 
 300 
 
 Llangan 
 
 64 ... 
 
 80 
 
 Llanboydy 
 
 240 ... 
 
 ... 300 
 
 Llanwinio 
 
 50 ... 
 
 ... 130 
 
 Laugharne 
 
 160 
 
 115 
 
 Trelech... 
 
 64 ... 
 
 150 
 
 Llangadock 
 
 . 200 ... 
 
 ... 200 
 
 Llandilo 
 
 581 
 
 ... 200 
 
 These statistics from North and South Wales do not 
 support the alien theory. But there is still stronger 
 evidence. Surely, if the Welsh people regarded the 
 Church as alien, this must appear prominently in the 
 writings of the founders of Welsh Methodism. I take 
 only Welsh Methodism, because until the rise of 
 Methodism in Wales, at the end of last century, the other 
 nonconforming bodies were numerically and influentially 
 insignificant. Howell Harries, one of the Methodist 
 founders, says that when he returned from Oxford in 
 1735 and settled down in his Breconshire home, he 
 devoted his time to visiting from house to house the 
 greatest part of his own parish, together with those of 
 neighbouring ones, and he gave addresses on religion in 
 various houses. As a consequence, he says that family 
 worship was set up in many houses, and the churches 
 were crowded, and likewise the Lord's table; and the 
 Welsh charity schools, set up by the procurement of the 
 Eev. Griffith Jones, vicar of Llandowror, began to spread. 
 Eight years later he writes : ''I cannot but rejoice on 
 account of the good work that the Lord began in the
 
 21 
 
 Established Church, and I hope that it is a leaven that will 
 effectually oi^erate. I recommend the peaceable spirit 
 that remains still in the Established Church, which toler- 
 ates such as differ from it, and does not quench these small 
 efforts of a revival in it." Again, in 1764, he writes; 
 "As the late revival in religion began in the Established 
 Church, we think it not necessary or prudent to separate 
 ourselves from it, but our duty to abide in it, and to go to 
 our parish church every Sunday." Howell Harries was 
 buried in Talgarth Church in July, 1773. Fifteen clergy- 
 men were present at his funeral, and the Lord's Supper 
 was administered by one of them. The tablet to Harries' 
 memory in Talgarth Church states that he remained a 
 "faithful member of the Church unto his end." Daniel 
 Rowlands, the other founder of Welsh Methodism, on 
 his deathbed, in 1790, exhorted his son to stand by the 
 Church by all means : " you will not, perhaps, be repaid 
 for doing so, yet still stand by it, yea, even unto death." 
 Here, for the sake of clearness, it is necessary to re- 
 member that until 1811 "the Methodists" — I quote from 
 the biography of Thomas Charles — " were considered a 
 part of the Established Church. None but episcopally- 
 ordained ministers administered the Lord's Supper among 
 them, and their children were baptized by the clergyman 
 of the parish in which they lived." Now, to go back 
 another ten years, I come to a piece of evidence for which 
 I have to thank an old Methodist friend, who has favoured 
 me with a copy of the " Rules and the Design of the 
 Religious Societies among the Welsh Methodists," read 
 and agreed upon in their Quarterly Association held at 
 Bala, June, 1801. "The Church of Christ is a spiritual 
 society, and transcendently surpasses all others that ever 
 were, or ever may be formed. All others will sooner or 
 later be broken to pieces and consumed, but the Church 
 shall never be destroyed ; she will stand for ever as firm
 
 22 
 
 and lasting as the eternal foundation on v^^liich she is built. 
 Behold how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell 
 together in unity. These considerations gave origin to the 
 private societies among the Methodists. They meet 
 together as joint members of the household of faith, con- 
 forming themselves with the Apostles' injunction to warn 
 the unruly, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support 
 the weak. We do not designedly dissent or look upon 
 ourselves as dissenters from the Established Church. In 
 doctrine we exactly agree with the articles of the Church 
 of England, and preach no other doctrines but what are 
 contained or expressed in them. Our meetings are seldom 
 or ever held on Church hours, but in union with the 
 Church we desire the full enjoyment of those privileges 
 which the laws and constitution of our favoured country 
 amply afford us of having liberty without restraint to use 
 every Scriptural means to spread the knowledge of the 
 Gospel of Christ among poor, ignorant, and perishing 
 sinners. Making a sect or forming a party is not the 
 object we are aiming at, God forbid." But how and 
 when did the secession of the "Welsh Methodists take 
 place ? Among these lay preachers there was a section 
 who were desirous of having some of the most approved 
 of the lay preachers ordained after the manner of the 
 English Methodists. This proposal was for a long time 
 very strongly resisted by Mr. Charles, then the recog- 
 nised leader of the Welsh Methodists, and — I quote 
 again from his biography — ^'had it not been for some 
 unhappy circumstances, he would probably wholly have 
 prevented its final adoption. The most powerful plea 
 urged by the advocates of the change was the inadequacy 
 of the small number of clergymen among them to supply 
 the demands of the Methodists. The policy pursued by 
 the bishops tended to increase this difficulty." The 
 bishops became stricter, and insisted on uniform regularity
 
 23 
 
 — that is, the bishops opposed the itinerancy, and would 
 not allow parochial limits and restrictions to be ignored. 
 The result was that in 1811 eight of the lay preachers in 
 North "Wales and eight in South Wales were set apart to 
 administer the Sacraments according to the forms recorded 
 in Acts xii. This formal secession arose, as the facts prove, 
 from no sort of hostility to the Church, but from these simple 
 causes : that a number of active, devout, lay Churchmen, 
 upon whom the evangelical revival spirit had fallen, formed 
 themselves into societies of itinerant lay exhorters, or lay 
 preachers ; that their preaching brought about a great 
 religious revival in Wales, and that at times, owing to 
 the increased congregations and the wide area of the 
 parishes, there was some difficulty in procuring when 
 required the ministrations of episcopally - ordained 
 clergymen. Then the itinerant character of this lay 
 brotherhood created a second difficulty. Several of the 
 clergy who belonged to these Methodist societies used 
 to join these laymen in their itinerant preaching, and 
 their appearance, probably with little ceremony or notice 
 in other people's parishes, naturally caused friction, and the 
 clergymen of some of these parishes no doubt addressed to 
 their bishops remonstrances against the irregularities of 
 this itinerant preaching, which the bishops thereupon pro- 
 hibited. Here then in these two difficulties, trivial, 
 preventible, and regre table as they now seem, you have 
 the full explanation of the Methodist secession. So far 
 not one word is heard about an alien Church. But we 
 step forward twenty- three years. In 1834 the agitation 
 for disestablishment began, which ten years later culmin- 
 ated in the formation of the Liberation Society. I ask 
 you to note carefully the following record: — ^^At an 
 annual association of the Welsh Methodists, held at Bala 
 in June (10th, 11th, and 12th), 1834, the following recom- 
 mendation was (at the meeting at two p.m. on the 11th)
 
 24 
 
 proposed by Mr. John Elias, of Anglesea, seconded by Mr. 
 William Morris, of Pembrokeshire, and unanimously 
 agreed to by upwards of 500 preachers and elders then 
 present from various parts of the Principality, ^ That we 
 deeply lament the nature of that agitation now so prevalent 
 in this kingdom, and which avowedly has for its object 
 the severing of the I^ational Church from the State, and 
 other changes in ecclesiastical affairs. We, therefore, are 
 of opinion that it pertains not unto us to interfere in such 
 matters ; and we strenuously enjoin upon every member 
 of our connexion to meddle not with them that are given 
 to change, but, on the contrary, to pray for the King and 
 for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and 
 peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' " I have now 
 traced the history of Welsh Methodism from its earliest 
 beginning to within little more than fifty years of the 
 present time. From first to last not one syllable of 
 hostility to the Church — not one hint that the Church was 
 regarded as alien. But to come to the present, how is it 
 that the Church is always spoken of to-day among the 
 Methodists as ^'yr hen fam," i.e.^ ^Hhe old mother?" 
 How is it that this agitation against the Church is 
 resented by the older Methodists ? How is it that 
 the Liberationist agents complain of great apathy 
 on disestablishment among many of the Nonconformists ? 
 These facts do not fit in with the alien theory. One word 
 before I leave this point. I have confined my remarks 
 chiefly to the Methodists. In numbers, in activity, in 
 organization, they are incomparably the most powerful 
 Nonconformist body in Wales. They are so educationally. 
 Thirteen per cent, of the Methodist, two per cent, of the 
 Congregational, and a fraction more than one per cent, of 
 the Baptist ministers in Wales are University graduates. 
 The secession of the Methodists in 1811, which dealt the 
 Welsh Church a blow from which it still reels, was 
 
 I
 
 25 
 
 deplorable, all the more so because to-day they would have 
 been the staunchest Churchmen, had there only been a 
 little more — to use Mr. Gladstone's words — of the spirit 
 of sympathy shewn. I gladly recognise the work done in 
 Wales by the Methodists ; and here — if I may digress for 
 one moment — let me say that I am not without hope that 
 the Methodist secession, a thing of yesterday, will soon be 
 forgotten in reunion with that Church which they have 
 always regarded as their mother. To-day Methodism in 
 Wales is splitting up into two camps. In one you see the 
 purely political and socialistic and revolutionary agitators, 
 whose words are seen in the Baner^ and their deeds in the 
 Tithe War. In the other you see the heart and strength 
 of Methodism. The earnest and peaceable spirit of men 
 like Howell Harries and John Elias still survives and 
 inspires the true and real leaders of religious Methodism 
 to-day. I believe, and for this belief I have solid ground, 
 that to these men the appeal is coming home with a new, 
 a strange and attractive force, ^' Hearken to me ye that 
 follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord. Look 
 unto the rock whence ye are hewn and to the hole of the 
 pit whence ye are digged." But to return or rather 
 descend once more to the exposure of fictions. We have 
 seen that in the charge of alienism there is no element of 
 truth. Another charge against the Welsh is thus stated 
 by Mr. Stuart Eendel : ^'Nonconformity a century back 
 evangelised Wales, and the Church of England prior to 
 that time had reduced Wales almost to heathenism." 
 A firm grip of a few figures is here necessary. IN'oncon- 
 forming Methodism in Wales dates from 1811. It is now 
 77 years old, not one year more or less. The Methodist 
 revival within the Church began in 1750. In the century 
 from 1650 to 1750, 20 Baptist and 53 Congregational 
 "causes" were started in Wales, while for the next 50 years 
 (from 1750—1800) the record is 66 Baptist and 67 Congre-
 
 26 
 
 gational. Between 1800 — 1840 the increase is still more 
 rapid. In those 40 years 200 Baptist and 344 Congre- 
 gational chapels were built in Wales. Until the rise of 
 Methodism the other Nonconformist bodies in Wales were 
 in a period of precarious infancy. Practically, then, we 
 are face to face with this charge. If Nonconformity evan- 
 gelised Wales the country was a heathen country until 
 1750. True Mr. Eendel uses the words "reduced to 
 heathenism." Whether he means by this odd expression 
 that the Church first christianised and then unchristianised 
 Wales, and, like Penelope, wove and unwove its own 
 work, or whether he means to imply that in some distant 
 and unrecorded centuries Nonconformity evangelised and 
 the Church subsequently paganised Wales, I cannot tell. 
 I can quite conceive that Mr. Eendel might make either 
 of these statements. Now for the facts as to the heathenism 
 of the Welsh before 1750. I have already given you some 
 authentic records of the communicants in North and South 
 Wales for the years 1710 and 1749. I fortify these, if 
 need be, with the testimony of Dr. Erasmus Saunders, 
 who published in 1721 a book on the state of religion in 
 the diocese of St. David's in the early years of the 
 eighteenth century. Dr. Saunders states, with evident 
 accuracy and truthfulness, the difficulties and defects of 
 the Church at that time, and this is what he says of the 
 Welsh people: ''An extraordinary disposition to religion 
 prevails among the people of this country. For whether 
 it be owing to our solitude, or our poverty, or our natural 
 disposition, or to the extraordinary grace of God given us, 
 I know not, but so it is. There is, I believe, no part of 
 the nation more inclined to be religious and to be delighted 
 with it than the poor inhabitants of these mountains. 
 They don't think it too much, when neither ways nor 
 weather are inviting, over cold and bleak hills to travel 
 three or four miles or more to attend the publick prayers." 
 
 i
 
 27 
 
 Then he describes how the servants and shepherds met for 
 mutual instruction and edification, and how they delighted 
 in the composing and singing of Divine hymns or songs 
 which they call ''carolion," which generally consist either 
 of the doctrinal or historical parts of Scripture, or of the 
 lives or worthy acts of some eminent saints whose extra- 
 ordinary piety and virtue they thereby endeavour to illus- 
 trate and recommend to themselves and others. Now, let 
 us go to North Wales. In the ^' Historical Dictionary of 
 Wales " there is a letter written in 1731 by John Evans, of 
 Bala, which proves that the whole population of Anglesea 
 were most resfular in their attendance at church. All this 
 does not look like heathenism. But let us give other and 
 different evidence. In the Archdeacon of Carmarthen's 
 report for 1710 the number of poor people in each parish 
 who could read Welsh is given. I take simply six typical 
 parishes, where the number is not above or below the 
 general average : — Abernant and Conwil, 70 families in 
 the parish, 60 poor people could read Welsh ; Llanllaw- 
 ddog, 50 families, 15 able to read Welsh; Llanpumpsaint, 
 
 29 families, 12 could read Welsh ; Merthyr, 31 families, 
 
 30 could read Welsh; Pendeign, 20 families, 24 could 
 read Welsh; Llanddowror, 65 families, 36 could read 
 Welsh. When we remember that the return only gives 
 the poor people who can read Welsh, we see at once that 
 the average is high, much higher, I believe, than it was at 
 the same period in many country parishes in England, and 
 quite as high as it was several years after the spread of 
 Methodism in Wales. Then we come to other evidence, 
 viz., the books published in Welsh during the fifty years 
 that preceded the spread of Nonconformity. The list is 
 taken from Eowlands' '' Cambrian Bibliography," edited 
 by Silvan Evans. I should mention that the author was a 
 Nonconformist. In the decade from 1680 to 1690 there 
 were published in Welsh 36 books. Of these 33 were on
 
 28 
 
 religious subjects, and 30 were written by Churchmen. 
 In the next decade (1690 — 1700) the numbers were 41 
 books, 39 on religious subjects, and 20 by Churchmen. 
 In the following decade (1700 — 1710) the numbers were 
 52 books, 52 (that is — all) on religious subjects, and 33 
 by Churchmen. In the next decade (1710 — 1720) the 
 numbers were 88 books, 87 on religious subjects, and 63 
 by Churchmen; and then in the last decade (1720—1730) 
 the numbers were 62 books, 57 on religious subjects, and 
 33 by Churchmen. To summarise these figures, we find 
 that in the fifty years of heathen darkness which preceded 
 the dawn of Dissent in "Wales 279 books were published 
 in the Welsh language. Of this number 268 were on 
 religious subjects, and 179 were certainly, and probably 
 many more, written by members — for the most part, 
 indeed, ministers — of that Church which Mr. Eendel tells 
 us was then engaged in reducing Wales to heathenism. I 
 add one more item of evidence on this point. I find it 
 stated in statistics on crime that the number of crimes 
 brought before the courts of justice in the years 1805 — 
 1811 (the years preceding the Methodist secession) bore in 
 England the proportion of 1 to 1,988 of the population; 
 in Ireland, 1 to 1,702 ; and in Wales, 1 to 8,436. These 
 facts, taken together, pulverise the heathen-theory of Mr. 
 Stuart Eendel. I cannot leave this point without saying 
 that Welshmen justly resent as a libel the charge of 
 heathenism brought against their ancestors by Mr Eendel. 
 I next take Mr. Henry Ei chard's statement that ^'It is 
 not true, as is sometimes alleged, that all the day schools 
 in the Principality were provided by the Church. Even 
 before the Education Act of 1870 the Nonconformists, 
 with some aid from Liberal Churchmen, had established 
 several Training Colleges in the Principality and between 
 400 and 500 schools." The facts are as follows : — From the 
 summary of Education Eeturhs published in 1833, known 
 
 J
 
 29 
 
 as '' Lord Kerry's Eeturns," it appears that only 1 in 17 of 
 the children under daily instruction in Wales in the year 
 1833 were taught in Dissenting schools. Again, in 1817 
 the number of children in Wales receiving daily instruction 
 in schools was returned as 14,389 in Church schools, 4,705 
 in schools connected with other religious bodies, and 7,654 
 in schools united to the British and Foreign School Society. 
 Again, Mr Henry Eichard goes on to say : — " The present 
 {i.e.^ in 1885) state of the question is this: that out of 
 1,795 schools and departments of schools in Wales, 748 
 are so-called National or Church of England schools, and 
 1,047 are Board, British, Eoman Catholic, and Methodist 
 schools." The actual facts are as follows : — The Church 
 schools numbered 46 per cent., Board schools 43 per 
 cent., and ]N'onconformist schools 11 per cent, of the 
 children under education in 1885. The last point 1 come 
 to is the statistical one. Mr Henry Eichard states that 
 the proportion of l^onconformists to Churchmen in some 
 parishes is 13 to 1, in others 12 to 1, in others 10 to 1 ; 
 taking the whole Principality, it is a moderate estimate 
 that makes the average relative proportion as 6 to 1. Sir 
 Horace Davey gives the proportion as 9 to 1. Other 
 opponents of the Church state the proportion to be 11 
 to 1. On this question of statistics two important facts 
 must be remembered. The Church party in Wales have 
 always been anxious to have a regular Parliamentary 
 official census of the relisiious bodies in Wales taken. 
 The opponents of such a census have been Mr Henry 
 Eichard and those who think with him. Secondly, most 
 people have heard of the voluntary census taken last year 
 by Mr Gee, a Methodist minister and editor of the Baner. 
 Mr Gee took his census, and did not publish, as he had 
 previously promised, the results, the only aj^parent reason 
 for this non-fulfilment of his promise being the fact that 
 the census yielded startlingly satisfactory results for the
 
 30 
 
 Churcli. At the present time the only thoroughly reli- 
 able and conclusive statistical evidence as to the strength 
 of Church and Dissent in Wales is afforded by the con- 
 firmation returns in the Church and by the number of 
 members yearly admitted by the Nonconformists. That 
 evidence is as follows : — The total number confirmed in 
 the four Welsh dioceses from 1882 to 1884 (inclusive) 
 numbered 22,183; the total number of communicants 
 admitted by the Methodists from 1881 to 1883 (inclusive) 
 was 26,007. The total number confirmed from 1885 to 
 1887 (inclusive) numbered 29,324; the total number of 
 communicants admitted by the Methodists from 1884 to 
 1886 (inclusive) numbered 24,779. I have taken in both 
 cases the returns published for the last six years. The 
 Methodist returns for 1887 have not yet appeared, and in 
 order to give a triennial comparison I take the last six 
 years for w^liich there are Methodist returns. I should 
 also add that the Methodist returns given above include 
 the communicants admitted by that body in Lancashire 
 and London. In the last three years — I have not got 
 them for the first three — these numbered 1,804, which in 
 fairness ought to be deducted, as the Church returns are 
 simply for the four Welsh dioceses. But making the 
 Methodists a present of these 1,804, the figures when 
 com2:)ared yield these results : In the first triennial period 
 the Methodist record exceeds that of the Church by nearly 
 4,000, whereas in the second period the situation is en- 
 tirely reversed, and the Church record exceeds that of the 
 Methodists by nearly 5,000, and, if we deduct the 
 Lancashire and London returns, the Church would exceed 
 the Methodist numbers by nearly 7,000. To put the 
 matter in another way, the Methodist returns show a 
 decrease in the last period of 1,228 and the Church an 
 increase of 7,141. The Baptist returns for 1884, 1885, 
 and 1886 — I have not been able to get the earlier years —
 
 31 
 
 shew that in those three years the number of those 
 baptised in Wales and Monmouthshire stood respectively 
 at 4,961 (1884), 4,818 (1885), and 4,529 (1886). This 
 is a steady decrease. I do not give the Congregational 
 returns. Their Welsh Official Year-books present a 
 phenomenon without a parallel in statistics. They give 
 every year a statistical table of their denomination. In 
 this table the number of members is given as absolutely 
 and exactly the same year after year since 1882, while the 
 number of chapels and ministers in the same table has 
 varied from year to year. There is an Eastern repose 
 about these stationary statistics of the Congregational 
 members. I have studied with care the denominational 
 Official Year-books for Wales, and the figures there given 
 prove beyond a doubt that every Nonconformist body 
 in Wales is at present declining in numbers. The 
 Methodists, being the most vigorous and best organised 
 denomination in Wales, are declining less than the 
 others. The confirmation returns do not exaggerate 
 the rapid progress of the Church. I will conclude 
 by pointing out briefly the difficulties the Church 
 in Wales has had to face. First, there was the 
 wreck and confusion of the Commonwealth, when for 
 the 700 South Wales parishes there were less than 100 
 ministers, and the churches were closed, neglected, and 
 unrepaired, and the whole Church machinery thrown out 
 of gear more violently and completely in Wales than in 
 England. Then, before the Church had had time to 
 recover herself, there gathered upon the wreckage left by 
 Cromwell the difficulties inseparable from an English and 
 often non-resident episcopate. This state of things is thus 
 described by Dr. Erasmus Saunders : — " How pleased," he 
 asks, " would an English congregation be to have a French- 
 man, a Dutchman, a Welshman, a German officiate among 
 them in a language they did not understand?" But, in
 
 32 
 
 common justice, let it be said that the non-residence was 
 often due to the poverty of the sees, which were held with 
 other preferments in England, and it must never be for- 
 gotten that among the English bishops in Wales there were 
 most devoted and excellent men. Bishop Burgess, who 
 founded Lampeter College, which has done and will yet do 
 great things for the Church and for Wales, and Bishop 
 Yowler Short, who spent all his episcopal income upon 
 Church work in his diocese, are names that at once occur 
 to me. Then, added to the difficulties I have already- 
 named, came the greatest of all — viz., the extreme poverty 
 of the livings. In 1720 there were in the diocese of St. 
 David's 118 livings above £50 a year, thirty-seven under 
 £50, forty-two under £40, sixty under £30, twenty-nine 
 under £20, thirty-nine under £15, fifty-seven under 
 £10, and twenty-nine under £5. Since that time 
 the Church has been largely re-endowed by the gener- 
 osity of her sons, and, in addition to all this, the 
 Church in Wales in recent years has been expending 
 not less than £50,000 a year upon Church exten- 
 sion and restoration. In all works of general benefit 
 and philanthropy the Church in Wales never figures in the 
 minority, if her gifts are to be compared with those of 
 others. Even for the endowment and building of the 
 Aberystwith University College, where the respected 
 principal is a Nonconformist and where Church influence 
 cannot be said to have had a place, the subscriptions of 
 Churchmen actually formed 33 per cent, of the total 
 subscribed. For one moment let us get away from details 
 and controversy, and reach out to thoughts of a wider and 
 deeper import. Those who know Wales well cannot 
 conceal from themselves the fact that among the younger 
 generation of Welshmen there are disturbing forces at 
 work, forces which, if once they gained full play and swing, 
 would work ruin to order, morality, and religion. To
 
 33 
 
 combat these there must be a strong and independent 
 power to preach and teach the truth. Those who look a 
 little below the surface know that !N'onconformity by its 
 very system is prevented from offering any such bulwark. 
 A ^Nonconformist minister, well-known and distinguished 
 in Wales, very recently told me that the great weakness of 
 IS'onconformity in Wales was that the minister dare not be 
 independent. "If," he said, ''I were next Sunday to 
 preach against certain sins, I should at once get into trouble 
 with some of my deacons, and the result would be my 
 dismissal." This is too true. I earnestly believe and 
 trust that my countrymen are daily becoming more alive to 
 this truth, and that every genuine patriot in Wales feels 
 that it is his duty — even though he urge no higher motive 
 for it than love of his country — to rally to the support and 
 strengthening of the ancient Church in Wales. Those 
 who take higher ground and look out with sad eyes upon 
 the wild waste that division and sectarian bitterness have 
 produced in Wales, and who regard without prejudice or 
 bias the work that the Welsh Church has done and still is 
 doing for Wales, are compelled and driven to the conclusion 
 that the future of religion in Wales is in the hands of that 
 Church. It is no empty phrase, it is no rhetorical figure 
 of speech, but just the plain simple truth to say of her 
 and her work to-day — 
 
 0, I see the crescent promise of her spirit hath not set : 
 Antient founts of inspiration well through all her pulses yet. 
 
 At the conclusion of the lecture several questions were 
 asked and answered by the lecturer. On the motion of 
 Mr. Webb, seconded by Mr. T. W. Palmer, a cordial vote 
 of thanks was passed to the lecturer, and a similar com- 
 pliment was paid to the chairman, on the motion of the 
 Yicar of Leeds, seconded by Mr. E. B. Atkinson.
 
 APPENDIX A. 
 
 The following Table shews the number of Baptist (B) and 
 Congregational (C) Chapels founded in the twelve Welsh counties 
 in the given periods between the years 1650 and 1887. The 
 Calvinistic Methodists seceded in 181 1, but no record is published 
 of the dates of the chapels built by them. 
 
 
 1650 
 
 1 70c 
 
 1750 
 
 1800 
 
 1820 
 
 1840 
 
 i860 
 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 to 
 
 
 1700 
 
 1750 
 
 1800 
 
 1820 
 
 1840 
 
 i860 
 
 1887 
 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 B 
 
 C 
 
 Anglesea 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 
 
 6 
 
 7 
 
 10 
 
 7 
 
 10 
 
 7 
 
 9 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 Breconshire 
 
 I 
 
 6 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 14 
 
 10 
 
 7 
 
 6 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 Cardiganshire 
 
 
 4 
 
 ... 
 
 .3 
 
 5 
 
 8 
 
 4 
 
 IS 
 
 7 
 
 14 
 
 I 
 
 10 
 
 5 
 
 13 
 
 Carnarvonshire 
 
 ... 
 
 I 
 
 ... 
 
 I 
 
 7 
 
 II 
 
 5 
 
 9 6 
 16 18 
 
 3^^ 
 
 2 
 
 14 
 
 17 
 
 27 
 
 Carmarthenshire 
 
 2 
 
 ... 
 
 4 
 
 ... 
 
 15 
 
 
 10 
 
 18 
 
 12 
 
 II 
 
 22 
 
 23 
 
 Denbighshire 
 
 I 
 
 2 
 
 
 ... 
 
 5 
 
 I 
 
 6 
 
 13 
 
 12 
 
 17 
 
 5 
 
 II 
 
 15 
 
 10 
 
 Flintshire 
 
 ... 
 
 I 
 
 ... 
 
 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 12 
 
 7 
 
 7 
 
 2 
 
 10 
 
 8 
 
 7 
 
 Glamorganshire 
 
 I 
 
 8 
 
 I 
 
 8 
 
 10 
 
 I.S 
 
 6 
 
 15 
 
 27 
 
 40 
 
 58 
 
 62 
 
 131 
 
 103 
 
 Merionethshire 
 
 ... 
 
 I 
 
 ... 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 s 
 
 
 14 
 
 3 10 
 
 2 
 
 10 
 
 12 
 
 15 
 
 Montgomeryshire ... 
 
 ... 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 I 
 
 2 
 
 9 
 
 4 
 
 13 
 
 10 19 
 
 2 
 
 7 
 
 
 4 
 
 Pembrokeshire 
 
 I 
 
 ,S 
 
 3 
 
 .S 
 
 6 
 
 7 
 
 13 
 
 17 
 
 20 
 
 17 
 
 18 
 
 II 
 
 II 
 
 5 
 
 Radnorshire 
 
 ... 
 
 2 
 
 2 
 
 I 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 ' 
 
 
 7 
 
 3 
 
 Total 
 
 6 
 
 30 
 
 14 
 
 23 
 
 66 
 
 67 
 
 63 
 
 :39 
 
 137 
 
 205^ 
 
 122 
 
 .6. 
 
 237 
 
 218 
 
 N.B. — Previous to 1800, there were 27 (C) chapels founded in 
 Carmarthenshire, but finding some of the dates incorrect I have not 
 classified them in periods.
 
 t 
 
 APPENDIX B. 
 
 In explanation of the decrease in the numbers of the 
 Methodists, it has been stated by one correspondent and 
 critic of these Letters that the decrease was purely local 
 and confined to the quarry-districts in North Wales, where 
 the migrations of unemployed workmen and their families 
 would easily explain the decrease. The following are the 
 official statistics of the Methodists : — 
 
 Communicants Admitted 
 
 Anglesea 
 
 Carnarvonshire 
 
 Denbighshire 
 
 Flintshire ... 
 
 Merionethshire ... 982 594 622 
 
 From these statistics it is seen that the decrease is most 
 conspicuous in those counties where the tithe riots have 
 been organised, and in Carnarvonshire — the great quarry- 
 county — the decrease is about a third of what it is in 
 Anglesea, Denbighshire, and Flintshire. 
 
 1884 
 
 1885 
 
 1886 
 
 1.035 
 
 542 
 
 358 
 
 1,185 
 
 1,158 
 
 940 
 
 1,101 
 
 489 
 
 471 
 
 934 
 
 477 
 
 318
 
 APPENDIX C. 
 
 Until public attention had been called to these official 
 Nonconformist statistics, the "hopeless-minority-argument" 
 was constantly urged as the one conclusive argument for 
 Disestablishment in Wales. The following quotations show 
 that our opponents have been compelled to abandon this 
 position, which depended for its strength upon the ignorance 
 of the British public about Wales. 
 
 The Rev. J. Wyndham Lewis (a leading Methodist 
 Minister) and the Rev. Mr. Tilly (the Baptist Minister at 
 Cardiff), recently speaking on Welsh Disestablishment, said 
 they did not attach much importance to the numerical 
 argument. They regarded Disestablishment not as a 
 question of numbers but of principle. 
 
 The Baner ac Amserati Cymru (Mr. Gee's paper), in a 
 leading article (May 2nd, 1888), says: "As far as numbers 
 are concerned we are fully prepared to admit that more 
 people call themselves or (perhaps to be more accurate) are 
 reckoned as Churchmen now than in any previous period 
 in the history of our country." 
 
 The Seven Cy??iru (the Welsh Baptist paper), in a 
 leading article (May 4th, 1888), says: "The observant 
 cannot but see that the Established Church {i.e., in Wales) 
 is in recent days increasing, especially in some parts of 
 Wales. We know Churches, which a short time ago were 
 comparatively empty, that are now comparatively full." 
 
 Mr. O. M. Edwards, B.A., a very distinguished scholar 
 of Balliol, and the rising hope of Welsh Methodism, writing 
 recently to the Rev. E. Griffiths (Methodist Minister), of 
 Penarth, who had asked Mr. Edwards for his opinion of the 
 English Calvinistic Methodist "causes" in Wales, replied 
 by giving it as his opinion that English Calvinistic Method- 
 ism was a complete failure.
 
 
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