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 . A * 
 
 NATIONAL UNIVERSITY 
 
 IRELAND: 
 
 ■A. speech: 
 
 DELIYEEED IN the HOUSE OF COMMON a MOVING POE LEAVE TO BEING IN 
 A BILL TO MAKE BETTEE PEOVISION FOE UNIYEKSITY 
 EDUCATION IN IRELAND, 
 
 MAY 1 6th. 1 8 7 6, 
 
 BY 
 
 ISAAC BUTT, 
 
 MEMBEB fob THE CITY OF LIMBBICK. 
 
 DUBLIN: 
 
 printed by w. j. alley & 
 
 9, RYDER’S ROW (OFF CAPEL STREET). 
 
 CO. 
 
 1876. 
 
DUBLIN : 
 
 PRINTED BY W. J. ALLEY & CO., 9, RYDER’S ROW, CAPEL STREET 
 
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 UNIVERSITY EDUCATION IN IRELAND. 
 
 Mr. Butt said: 
 
 la accordance, sir, with the notice I have given, I move for 
 leave to bring in a Bill to make better provision for University- 
 Education in Ireland. I do not anticipate that any opposition 
 will be offered to that motion, but although the Bill which I hold 
 in my hand has been prepared before the Session commenced, I 
 have deferred moving for its introduction until I could have an 
 opportunity of making a statement as to its object and provisions. 
 
 In doing so I may be permitted to say that I know of no sub¬ 
 ject of greater importance to the people of Ireland. I know none 
 of greater difficulty. I need scarcely remind the House that three 
 years ago it led to the overthrow of a very powerful Ministry. I 
 feel that in the very announcement which I make, I expose myself 
 to the charge of presumption if I entertain— as I do entertain—the 
 hope that I can offer a plan which may meet the difficulties that 
 surround any attempt at a satisfactory settlement of this great 
 -question. 
 
 I believe, sir, there are few persons who will deny that the 
 present University system of Ireland is unsatisfactory in not pro¬ 
 viding for the Roman Catholics of Ireland a higher education, of 
 which they can avail themselves upon terms of equality with 
 Protestants. I use the words higher education advisedly, that I 
 may avoid that which has been, I cannot help thinking, the source 
 of exaggeration and mistake. In dealing with the question of 
 University Education, we are not dealing with the education of 
 the great mass of the people. We have to consider the system 
 
 13 
 
4 
 
 which is suitable to those classes who, in any country, are likely' 
 to avail themselves of the benefits of University Education. But 
 in this view no one who will fairly consider the question can deny 
 that our present system is defective. It does not deal equally with 
 Protestants and Roman Catholics. Three years ago the then 
 Prime Minister spoke of the present state of things in the follow¬ 
 ing terms :— 
 
 Now, I will look at the question in a very simple form. What is the state 
 of the case as to the actual enjoyment of University training by the Roman 
 Catholics of Ireland ? I shall not enter into those details of controversy which 
 have been handled with great ability by gentlemen on one side and the other. 
 There are those who think, and who are bold enough to maintain, that upon 
 the whole, considering who Roman Catholics are, considering how little pro¬ 
 perty they possess, how little it is possible for them to enter upon the higher 
 culture, their state, so far as University Education is concerned, is not very 
 bad at this moment. I hold, on the contrary, that it is miserably bad. I go 
 farther, and I would almost say it is scandalously bad. 
 
 I entirely concur in the words which upon that occasion the 
 right hon. gentleman used, when he said that the settlement of 
 this question was 
 
 Vital to the prosperity and welfare of Ireland. For, even if we think 
 that University Education is a matter less directly connected with the peace 
 and happiness of the country than others on which we have formerly been 
 called upon more than once to proceed, it must be borne in mind that when 
 we look into the far future the well-being of Ireland must in a great degree 
 depend on the moral and intellectual culture of her people ; and that in the 
 promotion of that culture the efficiency of her Universities cannot fail to be 
 a powerful and effectual instrument. 
 
 At this hour of the evening I must endeavour to compress into 
 a compass, as brief as I can, the statement with which I must 
 trouble the House. I come at once to that which meets us at the 
 very threshold of this great question. The present arrangements 
 of University Education in Ireland are unsatisfactory to the 
 Roman Catholic people. They are so, because they do not offer 
 them a University Education in accordance with their religious 
 convictions. Those convictions lead them to believe that all 
 education is imperfect—more than imperfect—is dangerous, which 
 is not based upon religion. There is no escape from this question. 
 
5 
 
 You must maintain a University system in antagonism to the 
 convictions of the great mass of the Irish people—a system in 
 perpetual, although it may be in subdued, war with their deepest 
 and most sacred feelings—or you must mould that system so as to 
 admit within it institutions which will give to the Roman Catholic 
 people an opportunity of sharing in all the benefits, all the 
 advantages, and all the emoluments which you attach to University 
 Education upon the terms of perfect equality with Protestants— 
 upon the only terms that can place them upon that equality—that 
 is, upon terms that will recognise their deep, their conscientious 
 conviction that religion must be interwoven with all the teaching 
 and with all the arrangements of collegiate life. 
 
 I do not stop to argue the reasonableness of that conviction. 
 The statesmanship is a very poor one that refuses to accept the 
 deep-seated convictions of men as facts which it must estimate as 
 real forces with which it has to deal. Institutions are made for 
 men, and not men for institutions, and the man who would build 
 up a system of University Education for Ireland from the estimates 
 of which he omitted all calculations of the deep-seated convictions 
 of the people, would soon find that no matter with what fair 
 , prospects his system was proposed, no matter upon what specious 
 theories it was based, it would fail, and fail as miserably as many 
 of your best devised plans for governing Ireland have failed, from 
 the slight defect that they omitted to take into account the 
 -character and the feelings of the people for whom they were 
 intended. 
 
 For myself, I am not ashamed to confess that in the conviction 
 that education ought to be based upon religion I entirely concur. 
 This is, at all events, a principle that has come down to us with great 
 traditions of Christendom, Roman Catholic and Protestant. It has 
 come to us with the authority of the wisest of those men of ancient 
 times who, even without the light of Christianity, anticipated in the in¬ 
 stincts of human conscience its teachings. It has come down to us 
 with the mighty memories of men who, trained under its influence, 
 have done good service to the commonwealth in Church and State. 
 But for my own convictions upon this subject—convictions which 
 are shared by the vast majority of my countrymen—I ask for a 
 
6 
 
 Strict jDrinciple of toleration. I will ask it to-night both for Pro¬ 
 testant and Roman Catholic. Do not force upon us, in obedience 
 to a small and insignificant sect of secularists, a denial in our Uni¬ 
 versity system of a principle which ninety-nine out of every hun¬ 
 dred Irishmen, Protestant as well as Catholic, hold dear. 
 
 But even this is not essential to the argument I am addressing 
 to you to-night. It is enough for me to say, as I have said, that 
 if you desire that your University system should embrace those of the 
 Catholic people of Ireland who would naturally look to the benefits 
 of University Education, you must provide for them the means of 
 having that education in such a form that their views of the neces¬ 
 sity of its being interwoven with religion may be honestly and 
 fairly met. 
 
 If this be the right conclusion, we have then to look at the- 
 existing state of things. I will not stop to go back upon the his¬ 
 tory of ancient University institutions in Ireland. It is enough 
 for me to say that we find there one institution founded in the 
 reign of Queen Elizabeth, which, up to the present generation, has 
 been the only University for Ireland. It has taken its place with 
 the elder Universities of Great Britain and of Europe. Its degrees 
 are recognised, not only in Oxford and Cambridge, but in every 
 academy in Europe. The fame of its men of science is known in 
 all lands where the higher attainments of science are valued. Its 
 history is interwoven with that of the country. Eew of the meiv 
 of whom Ireland is proud have not received their education within 
 its walls. I am old enough to remember hearing O’Connell, in a 
 public meeting, lament that he was sent to the Continent to receive 
 his education, because when he was ready for Trinity College, 
 Trinity College was not ready for him. For one great section of 
 Irish society this institution has fulfilled the functions of a 
 National University. By it Protestant thought and intellect have 
 been trained. 
 
 But, established as it was in the first ardour of the Reformation,, 
 it has not altogether failed in providing education for the Homan- 
 Catholic people. More than seventy years ago its statutes were 
 so changed as to admit all creeds to the benefits of its education and 
 the privileges of its degrees. Long before your English Universities, 
 
7 
 
 thought of toleration, Trinity College opened its doors to 
 men of all religious creeds. In 1793 the Irish Parliament repealed 
 all the Acts of Parliament which interposed obstacles to the admis¬ 
 sion of Roman Catholics to the benefits of degrees. In the lists 
 of our Roman Catholic judges, of our Roman Catholic members 
 of Parliament, of the men eminent in Irish public life, you find 
 many who have won distinction in the University. There are in 
 this House a larger number of its graduates representing Catholic 
 than there are representing Protestant constituencies; and Protes¬ 
 tant, as has been its character, with almost all its emoluments and 
 offices reserved to Protestants, Trinity College has a hold, and a 
 strong hold, upon the sympathies and respect of the whole Irish 
 people, 
 
 I must stop for a moment to inquire upon what endowments 
 it has accomplished all this. In the Report of the Commissioners 
 of 1854 its revenue derived from endowments is stated to be 
 .£36,000 a year. A return obtained last year by the member for 
 Longford makes its income from endowments £43,000. I do not 
 stop to account for the discrepancy. I contrast this sum, whether 
 it be £36,000 or £43,000, with the revenues of the English Uni¬ 
 versities. I need not remind the House that Trinity College is a 
 college discharging the functions both of a University and a col¬ 
 lege. Tt is the one college of the Irish University, and in both 
 characters it has endowments not much exceeding, at the outside 
 estimate £40,000 a year. It appears by the Report of the Commission 
 on the English Universities that the University of Ox ford has endow¬ 
 ments amounting to £29,000 a year; its colleges and halls to 
 £307,000. Cambridge has University endowments amounting to 
 £13,000 a year. Those of its colleges and halls amount to 
 £264,000 a year. So that the University of Dublin has been 
 keeping its place among the Universities of the world upon an 
 endowment not exceeding £40,000—in contrast, and often in 
 rivalry, with the two English Universities, with revenues of 
 £631,000. 
 
 Now, sir, it appears to me that when we come to consider how 
 we are to remedy the injustice that is done to the Roman Catholics 
 of Ireland under the present arrangements, we must consider the 
 
I 
 
 8 
 
 “existence of our present University in two respects. We have a 
 University made illustrious by great traditions, with a recognised 
 status earned by centuries of work, and commanding for its 
 degrees a reception all over the world. It appears to me that it 
 would be very unwise to throw away from our Roman Catholic 
 countrymen all these great advantages which no power and no 
 •endowments could give to a new institution. We must make the 
 attempt to admit them fully and unreservedly into all the 
 advantages we have acquired—into a complete partnership with 
 all the treasures of memory that Trinity College has inherited from 
 past times, and we must do this while we give them a University 
 Education consonant with their own convictions—an education 
 with which religious training and religious teaching shall be 
 inseparably associated. In this view I believe we are led at once 
 to the conclusion that we ought, in re-adjusting our University 
 system, to maintain its identity unbroken, and its status Jmd its 
 memories unimpaired. 
 
 This is the more important aspect of the question, because it 
 concerns the whole people. But there is another consideration not 
 to be overlooked. Trinity College has provided a University 
 Education that meets the wants and wishes of one great section of 
 the people. We ought not lightly, and without necessity, to destroy 
 this. All considerations, therefore, point to this: that in framing 
 a measure to admit Roman Catholics to perfect equality in our 
 University system we ought to preserve, as far as possible, the main 
 features of that system, and, in admitting others to equal 
 advantages, to leave to the Protestant community those which 
 they have so long enjoyed. 
 
 I believe we can obtain all this by building on the lines of the 
 Act passed by the Irish Parliament in 1793. That Act expressly 
 contemplated, at a future day, a second college in the Dublin 
 University—a college of which all the emoluments and offices 
 should be open to Roman Catholics, although not excluding 
 Protestants from its education. The Bill I hold in my hand is an 
 attempt to accomplish the establishment of a second college—one 
 that will give to Catholic parents the opportunity of obtaining for 
 their children a University Education, in ,the form and manner in 
 
9 
 
 -which they themselves desire it should be given. After eighty- 
 three years, I am asking the Imperial Parliament to perfect the 
 work of liberality and toleration which an Irish Parliament, com¬ 
 posed exclusively of Protestants, and elected exclusively by 
 Protestants, commenced in 1793. 
 
 If the House will permit me, I will endeavour, in the first 
 instance, to place before them the provisions proposed in the Bill 
 for the establishment of such a college. We might, of course 
 incorporate a new body of nominees, either of the framers of the 
 measure or of the Crown, but I am quite sure that we should act 
 most unwisely if we overlooked the fact that the exigencies of their 
 ■position have forced the Catholic people of Ireland, out of their own 
 resources, without any Government aid, and without any State 
 authority, to frame and form an institution which might discharge 
 for them the functions of a University. The Roman Catholics of 
 Ireland have proved their zeal and earnestness in this matter of 
 education. Under the name of the Catholic University they have 
 formed an institution, to the support of which they have con¬ 
 tributed about £200,000. Maintaining itself under great difficulties 
 —met by the rivalry of institutions offering to those who would 
 resort to them great prizes, upon which public money is lavishly 
 expended—it yet has held its ground, and is every year gaining upon 
 public confidence and respect. Among its professors are men of the 
 highest order of intellect, some of them whose scientific fame is 
 European, and I must add that in which I know I shall be borne 
 ■out by every one, no matter what religious or political opinions he 
 may hold who has been brought in contact with the collegiate 
 life of that institution, that nowhere do we meet with more 
 liberality of statement, more real tolerance of spirit, than among 
 those who have received, or are receiving, their education within 
 the walls of that institution. 
 
 In the Bill which I ask leave to introduce I offer to the teach¬ 
 ing body of that institution a charter of incorporation as a second 
 college in the University, with a voice in the government of that 
 University, and with suitable endowments.* In the provisions of 
 the Bill I have endeavoured to secure three matters which I 
 believe to be essential to *my measure of the kind. First, to give 
 
10 
 
 to the Roman Catholic people an educational institution adequate 
 to meet their wants, and framed in accordance with their convic¬ 
 tions. Secondly, to preserve to the Protestant community the 
 same advantages which the Bill gives to the Roman Catholic ; 
 and, lastly, to do this without lowering either the status of the 
 Irish University or the standard of Irish University Education. 
 
 I propose, sir, that both the new college and Trinity College 
 should be independent and self-governing bodies. To each of 
 them the Bill leaves the exclusive superintendence of the educa¬ 
 tion of its own students, subject to this, that certain subjects of 
 study are defined as forming a necessary part of University Edu¬ 
 cation. In respect of degrees, the University would have just the 
 same power that it has now, except that I take away the right of 
 conferring degrees of divinity. I propose instead to allow each 
 college to confer a diploma of Doctor or Bachelor of Divinity, 
 carrying with it no University privilege. The degree of Bachelor 
 of Arts to be attained after four years’ membership of either col¬ 
 lege upon the certificate of the college that the candidate has made 
 pi*oficiency in the prescribed studies. In addition to this, I propose 
 that this proficiency should be tested by two University examina¬ 
 tions—one at the end of the first two years ; another, the degree 
 examination, whenever after the end of the four years he presents 
 himself for admission to his degree; these examinations to be 
 conducted by a board of examiners chosen from each college. 
 
 I need not say, sir, that this is just the system of teaching and 
 examination pursued both at Oxford and Cambridge. It is fol¬ 
 lowed at Dublin, as far as it is possible, to distinguish between. 
 University and college examinations where you have only one 
 college. 
 
 It will be seen that this plan regards teaching as essentially a 
 collegiate matter—examination, as a test of fitness for a degree, as 
 the business of the University. It is by keeping these two things 
 perfectly distinct that we shall be able to combine two colleges, such 
 as I propose, in one University. If we do, there is no difficulty in 
 having one common course of study. There is no difficulty in having 
 a common examination. Nay, more, I may, perhaps, be thought 
 very bold if I say that there is no real difficulty in introducing into. 
 
11 
 
 the common course and common examination subjects which it has 
 been sometimes, though necessary, to exclude from a University 
 intended to embrace men of different religious creeds. 
 
 I propose to prescribe in a schedule to this Bill the course of 
 study and of examination. I do not wish to weary the House 
 by mentioning the details of the course that is prescribed. It has 
 been framed with care, and, in a great degree, from the calendars 
 of Trinity College and of the existing Catholic University. Pro¬ 
 vision is made for changes in that course by competent authority 
 within that University itself; but, in the first instance, I have 
 thought it necessary that the course should be prescribed; and, I 
 venture to say, that when the Bill is printed, and the schedule 
 prescribing the course of study is read, no one will say that the 
 standard of University Education is lowered, or that the man who 
 will pass an examination in that course has not received an edu¬ 
 cation as liberal and as general as any that is given in any Uni¬ 
 versity in the kingdom. But I repeat, that in that course and in 
 all studies I recognise the colleges as the teaching bodies and the 
 University as the body examining and conferring degrees upon 
 those who are tested by their examination, and are upon that 
 examination found qualified for their degree. 
 
 But the Bill contains, on the subject of degrees, another provi¬ 
 sion to which I attach very great importance. Both Oxford and 
 Cambridge have recently admitted students to matriculate as 
 members of the University without entering any college. The 
 University of Dublin has long since dispensed with either resi¬ 
 dence or attendance on lectures as a qualification for a degree, the 
 attention of the students to the prescribed studies being tested by 
 frequent attendance at examinations. I propose to continue that 
 system. If any person desire to pass through the University 
 without entering either college he will, under the provisions of 
 this Bill, be allowed to matriculate and proceed to his degree, 
 passing, however, frequent examinations, from which those who 
 are members of either of the colleges are exempted. There will be 
 thus three classes of students—those who enter in Trinity College, 
 those who enter in the new college, and those who are University 
 students without belonging to either college. The two first classes 
 
12 
 
 will receive their teaching in their respective colleges, and will be 
 only required to submit to an University examination twice in 
 their course. The third class may receive their teaching where, 
 and in what manner, they please; but they will be required, by 
 passing periodical examinations, to give satisfactory proof that, 
 without any collegiate superintendence, they have been taught, 
 or, at all events, have learned the knowledge which is thought 
 essential to a University Education. 
 
 I cannot but think that this provision ought to remove objections 
 that I know will be made to this Bill. The measure I propose 
 gives, it is true, to everyone the opportunity of passing to a degree in 
 a college essentially religious in its character, but the provision I 
 have last mentioned enables anyone to proceed to a degree without 
 submitting himself to any religious teaching whatever. If anyone, 
 from any reason, is unwilling to subject himself to the discipline 
 or rules of either of the colleges, he is not therefore debarred 
 from a University degree. He may receive his teaching in any 
 seminary he pleases, or he may teach himself. If he learns, and 
 proves by his examination that he has learned, he will be required 
 to do nothing more. I need not point out in how many ways this 
 will have a beneficial effect. Among others, it will create a 
 species of competition with the colleges which will stimulate them 
 to provide the best education that they can. If men can obtain 
 degrees without collegiate residence there will be many who will 
 avail themselves of that privilege, unless the colleges offer them 
 real and substantial advantages. At all events, the power of 
 choice will leave University Education free. 
 
 I have said, sir, that I propose to make the new colleges 
 independent and self-governing. Trinity College is governed by 
 statutes framed by various sovereigns and by an Act of Parliament 
 which was passed within the last few years, but except where an 
 Act of Parliament intervenes all the statutes may be altered at the 
 pleasure of the Crown. At present Trinity College is governed 
 by the Provost and Senior Fellows and by a Collegiate Council, in 
 the election of which the Senate of the University have a voice. 
 I propose to substitute for the interference of the Senate that of a 
 congregation of its own graduates. The Collegiate Council, if this 
 Bill passes, would exercise the same powers it does now, and be 
 
13 
 
 elected in the same manner, substituting for election by all the 
 Senate, election by those who are graduates of Trinity College. 
 
 I propose to confer the power of passing new statutes on the 
 Congregation of Graduates, the Collegiate Council, and the Provost 
 and Senior Fellows. No change is to be made in the statutes 
 without the consent of these three bodies, and in some cases with 
 the additional requisite of the consent of the Crown. 
 
 But to leave Trinity College its power of self-government, I 
 propose to exempt it, as well as the new college, from the opera¬ 
 tion of the Act prohibiting all religious tests, and to abrogate the 
 college statute, which was in fact the necessary consequence of that 
 Act. The effect of this would be to restore the religious character 
 of the college, but at the same time to leave it perfectly open to the 
 college authorities themselves to make, with the assent of the 
 Crown, any changes with regard to this which they thought fit. 
 
 And here, sir, speaking of that college with which I am 
 practically acquainted—I mean, of course, Trinity College—I 
 attach great importance to giving to an assembly representing its 
 graduates, a voice, and to some extent, a share in its government. 
 After all Trinity College must still continue to bear to the 
 Protestant community the character of a University in many 
 respects. The same may be said as to the Catholic .people and the 
 new college ; but speaking as I do of the college with which I am 
 acquainted, not only as a student and a graduate, and as having once 
 had a share, although a small one, in its teaching department, but as a 
 member of its Senate, I see great advantages in bringing some¬ 
 thing of a popular element to bear upon its government. I think 
 this is done, and safely done, by the institution of a separate Senate, 
 or, as it is called in the Bill, Congregation B of the College. I 
 should be very sorry to entrust absolute legislative powers to such 
 a body, but I give them their power under the control of the 
 Provost and Senior Fellows, who have been, until recently, the 
 absolute masters of the institution in all its ordinary concerns. 
 
 I am sure the discussion in a Senate of graduates of questions 
 relating to the government of the college will infuse energy and 
 power into the life of the institution. 
 
 I propose to establish, in substance, the same system of govern¬ 
 ment in the second, that is in the Catholic College. The property, 
 
14 
 
 and, to a large extent, the control of the Catholic University are 
 now vested in an episcopal board, consisting of several of the 
 Catholic prelates. To the board we must give a large power in 
 the government of the college; first, because we expect them to 
 give over to the purposes of the new college a considerable amount 
 -of property, and more than property, the good-will of an institution 
 which they have created and fostered ; but more, far more than this, 
 because unless we yield them that power we would fail at the very 
 outset in creating an institution suited to the convictions of the 
 Irish Catholic people—if we did not vest in the prelates of the 
 Catholic Church that amount of control which the Catholic people 
 desire they should have. I propose to incorporate the present 
 members of that board under the title of the Committee of 
 Founders. It is a title which will, perhaps, excite less prejudice than 
 that of Episcopal Board. It will, at all events, express a claim to 
 control over an institution which has always been recognised, and 
 which in this Bill is not carried nearly so far as it was in many of 
 the Cambridge and Oxford Colleges. Vacancies occurring in the 
 committee will be filled up by the surviving members, and there is 
 no doubt that the Committee of Founders will practically and truly 
 represent the Roman Catholic hierarchy of Ireland. 
 
 In the new college, as in Trinity College, I propose to institute 
 a congregation of the graduates of the college itself and a Col¬ 
 legiate Council, the latter to be partly appointed by the Committee of 
 Founders partly elected by the Professors and partly by the Congrega¬ 
 tion of Graduates. To the Collegiate Council I propose to entrust 
 the election of professors, subject to the veto of the Committee of 
 Founders. I propose that statutes may be passed for the college in 
 the same manner as for Trinity College with the assent of these 
 three bodies—the Congregation of Graduates, the Collegiate 
 Council, and the Committee of Founders—but I propose to give to 
 the Founders that power of making, on their own authority, 
 regulations on matters affecting religious teaching and morality 
 which I am sure the Catholic people of Ireland would desire to 
 see placed in the hands of the prelates of their Church. 
 
 I need not say, sir, that in all that concerned the internal 
 constitution of that which is intended to be a Roman Catholic 
 College I felt difficulties in making any proposal. The questions 
 
15 
 
 relating to it are, in my mind, to be determined by Roman 
 Catholics themselves. I have no authority to speak for anyone on 
 the subject. All I could do was to gather opinion from those whom 
 I thought best informed as to the feelings and sentiments of those 
 whose opinions must be consulted. I have carefully studied the 
 past history of the question, the resolutions that have been passed, 
 and the correspondence that has taken place upon former occasions 
 between the Ministers of the Crown and the Roman Catholic 
 Prelates, and all I can say is that I hope and believe thatiftlie House 
 gives me leave to bring in this Bill it will be found, when that Bill 
 is submitted in its full form to the judgment of the public, possible 
 to settle this great question upon the principles which I have 
 endeavoured to embody in this measure. But for the frame and 
 proposals of the Bill I am alone responsible, except so far as that 
 responsibility is shared by the friends who have permitted me to 
 associate their names with mine in introducing it, and to whose 
 judgment I have, of course, submitted the provisions it contains. 
 
 I have explained the proposed constitutions of the new colleges. 
 As to the University itself, I propose to leave the Senate as it is, 
 reinforced as it will be by the addition of doctors and masters who 
 may be created by her Majesty in the charter incorporating the 
 new college, and from time to time by the graduates that will be 
 supplied by the new college. 
 
 The ordinary management of University affairs I propose to 
 leave to an Academical Council, consisting of the Yice-Chancellor, 
 the Provost of Trinity College, the Rector of the new college, four 
 members of the Senate to be nominated by each college, and four to 
 be elected by the Senate upon the principle of cumulative voting. 
 Upon some matters the Bill requires the assent of three-fourths of 
 the members present to a resolution. 
 
 For the University itself, I propose a legislative machinery 
 analogous to that of the colleges. The Bill provides that new 
 statutes may be passed with the assent both of the Academic 
 Council and the Senate., but I add to this a provision that no such 
 statute should be passed if it is negatived either by the Provost 
 and Senior Fellows of Trinity College, or by the Committee of 
 Founders of the new college. It is right that security should be 
 
16 
 
 taken that no essential change should be made in the University 
 arrangements without the consent of those who, if this Bill comes 
 into effect, will be parties to the arrangement it makes. 
 
 I have stated to the House the outline of the plan by which I 
 propose to incorporate a new college into the existing system of the 
 University of Dublin. I come now to the question of endowments. 
 
 I propose to take for the endowment of the University and the 
 new college a considerable sum from a fund which belongs 
 peculiarly to the Irish people, and which I feel strongly ought to 
 be held sacred for purposes like that to which I propose to apply 
 it—I mean the remnant which your management has left of the 
 magnificent revenues which the piety of ancient times had devoted 
 to provide for the religious needs of the Irish people. I use this 
 language, not in reference to the strange transactions in which so 
 large a portion of the remaining revenues of the Irish Church were 
 squandered on the cost of disestablishing it. I speak in a larger 
 sense. I remember reading, many years ago, a statement made by 
 an eminent prelate of the Protestant Church, Dr. Elrington, who 
 was Provost of Trinity College, and afterwards Bishop of Ferns* 
 that there had been Church property in Ireland sufficient, if 
 properly managed, not only to provide for the sustenance of the 
 clergy of all religious denominations, but, after doing this, to provide 
 for the University and school education of the entire people. The 
 statement was no exaggeration. Of that noble national property 
 all that remains to the Irish people is a contingent interest, at least 
 an interest not yet realised, estimated at something more than five 
 millions of pounds. It is in this fund that we should find 
 endowments for the new institution we are creating, and, for my¬ 
 self, I earnestly hope that no portion of that fund may ever be 
 applied to purposes more foreign to those to whioh the property, of 
 which it is the remnant, was consecrated. 
 
 The University itself, as distinguished from the college, should 
 be provided with the means of carrying on its own business, 
 of providing for its examinations and prizes at those exami¬ 
 nations. It ought also to be provided with the means of instituting 
 fellowships and scholarships, open to all students ; and, after pro¬ 
 viding for all those necessary expenses, it ought to have a fund at 
 
17 
 
 its disposal sufficient to meet those demands for scientific or lite¬ 
 rary purposes which may always arise. Following in some 
 respects the Bill introduced by the then Government in 1873, this 
 Bill proposes that there should be fifteen University Fellowships, 
 held for life, and endowed each from the University revenues with 
 the sum of £200 a year. They are to be open to all graduates, 
 and be given away after an examination conducted by the board of 
 examiners, appointed as I have already described. Of course all 
 these fifteen should not be filled up at once, but gradually, until 
 the number is completed. Some of the fellowships might derive a 
 further income if their holders should accept the office of tutor to 
 the non-collegiate students; and as to all of them, regulations, 
 either as to University duties or otherwise, might be made which 
 would, as a general rule, insure their resignation whenever the 
 holder had attained a position which made him independent of the 
 emoluments attached to a fellowship. 
 
 In addition to this, the Bill proposes that there should be given 
 away in each year, by public examinations, among those taking 
 their degree, two exhibitions of £100 a year, tenable for 
 five years. There are in Trinity College 70 foundation scholar¬ 
 ships obtainable only by under-graduates, and which, estimating- 
 some small money payments and the advantages of chambers 
 and commons, are worth probably £60 a year. But they 
 are sought after with an eagerness far beyond their worth. The 
 roll of the scholars contains the names of most of the men who 
 have been illustrious in our past history. Every man is proud of 
 having his name inscribed on the book on which he sees before 
 him the names of Edmund Burke, of Curran, of Plunket, and many 
 others with which history has made him familiar. A scholarship 
 in Trinity College gives the privilege of a vote at the election of 
 members for the University ; the privilege continues for life, and 
 at every contested election it is interesting to see the anxiety with 
 which every one who can do it claims his right to vote as an ex¬ 
 scholar instead of recording it by virtue of a degree. I propose 
 to open these 70 scholarships to all students of the University. 
 If the successful student is a member of Trinity College ? 
 he will receive all the collegiate advantages which belong to the 
 
18 
 
 position of a scholar; if he is not a member of Trinity College, 
 and does not elect to become one, I propose that Trinity College 
 should pay him an annual stipend equivalent to the value of those 
 advantages. 
 
 The Royal Commissioners of Education in Ireland have founded 
 in the University thirty exhibitions for under-graduates, ranging 
 from £50 to <£20. These exhibitions are at present confined to 
 pupils of the Royal Schools, out of whose revenues they are en¬ 
 dowed. The Bill proposes to open them to all students. 
 
 There are at present in Trinity College 26 junior fellows, 
 making, with the 7 senior fellows, 33 fellows. The number has 
 been greatly increased within the last forty years, and I am sure 
 that it far exceeds that which is requisite for the wants of the 
 college. The Bill proposes to transfer 10 of these fellowships to 
 the University as they fall vacant, Trinity College paying to those 
 elected to fill them an annual stipend equivalent to the income and 
 which a fellow of Trinity College derives from the college advantages 
 revenues. This would not exceed £100 a year. Whatever may be 
 wanting to make up the value of £200 is to be paid out of the 
 University funds. 
 
 The University, therefore, under this plan would give away 
 fellowships and prizes open to all its graduates—twenty-five 
 fellowships worth £200 a year, ten exhibitions worth £100 a year 
 each; to under-graduates: seventy scholarships worth £60 a year 
 each, and thirty exhibitions varying from £50 to £20. But the 
 House will remember that all the under-graduate scholarships and 
 exhibitions are provided out of funds independent of the Univer¬ 
 sity, and there is a contribution of one-half of the expense of ten of 
 the fellowships from Trinity College, so that the charge upon the 
 University funds would be fifteen fellowships at £200 a year each, 
 £3,000; half often fellowships, £1,000 ; and ten exhibitions, £100 
 each, £1,000—making in all an annual charge of £5,000. 
 
 But in addition to these prizes, open to those who are actually 
 students in the university, I make a proposal in this Bill, which 
 I am sure will be valued by all who take an interest in inter¬ 
 mediate education in Ireland—I propose to place at the disposal 
 of the University authority to be given away in each year, 
 fifty pensions or exhibitions of £20 a year each, tenable 
 for three years under suitable regulations, for young 
 men of merit who may need assistance in preparing them¬ 
 selves for a University Education. This will add a charge of 
 £3,000 a year upon the University revenues, making in all a sum 
 of £8,000 a year to be spent in the manner I have mentioned. I 
 do not believe anyone will say that I am asking an extravagant 
 endowment for the University if I ask that the Church 
 Commissioners shall provide out of the surplus at their disposal 
 
19 
 
 a sum of £300,000, bearing interest at the rate of 4 per cent, 
 until paid. Assuming the money, when paid, to he laid out so 
 as to produce the same income, this would leave to the University 
 an income from endowment of £4,000 for all other purposes. To 
 this, of course, must be added whatever might be received from 
 the students in the form of fees. I propose to leave this fund at 
 the disposal of the Academic Council, guarding its power over it 
 by this, that in any vote for money beyond providing for the 
 ordinary expenditure the votes of two-thirds must concur. 
 
 I come now to the colleges : Trinity College has an endow¬ 
 ment, as stated in, I think, an exaggerated estimate, of £43,000. 
 A considerable part of this comes from private sources. In the 
 Bill of 1873 the late Ministry proposed that Trinity College 
 should pay to the funds of the University a direct money contri¬ 
 bution of £12,000 a year. I propose a contribution in a different 
 form—a form that will not in the least cripple the resources of 
 the college. The surrender of the seventy foundation scholar¬ 
 ships to the University, taking the cost of each at £60 annually, 
 is equivalent to a money contribution of £4,200 a year ; but, in 
 other respects, it is a contribution far beyond their money value. 
 In the transfer of the ten fellowships there is another annual 
 contribution of £1,000. Trinity College has at present certain 
 professorships which may be fairly considered as a portion of the 
 University expenses. The professors in certain faculties must 
 preside over the granting of degrees in those faculties. In all 
 matters of this nature I believe it of importance to observe the 
 old established usages. These professors are—the Regius 
 Professor of Law, with a salary of £500 a year; the Regius 
 Professor of Physic, of Surgery, and last, not least, of Music. 
 All these I propose to make University professors, to be nomi¬ 
 nated by the Academic Council, but the salaries still to be paid 
 as now by the college, and I add to these the Professor of 
 Astronomy, the Royal Astronomer of Ireland. The salary of 
 this professor is now £700 a year, independent of a residence at 
 at the Observatory with several acres of land. His assistant 
 receives £200 a year. In addition to this, there are attached to 
 the professorship the buildings of the Observatory and the 
 valuable instruments ; all this I propose to hand over to the 
 University. The salaries and emoluments of these different 
 professorships, still continuing charges on the college revenues, 
 will amount to more than £2,000 a year. In these various 
 ways the college will contribute, if not to the Uni¬ 
 versity, yet to University purposes, an income of nearly 
 £8,000, and as I propose to open to all students fourteen 
 studentships 9 £ £100 a year each, recently founded by an act of 
 
2 6 
 
 most generous liberality of the Board of Trinity College; this 
 will increase the contribution made by Trinity College to 
 university purposes to an amount equalling an annual sum 
 of about £9,000. But this contribution will be made not by 
 impossing any new burden on the revenues of Trinity College, 
 but by a provision that places, for which they are at present 
 bound to provide out of these revenues, shall be open, as they 
 are now, to all members of the University, although the limits of 
 the University are no longer identical with Trinity College. 
 
 In addition to this, there are some annual prizes and medals, 
 which will be open to all students ; they are not very large in 
 amount, but many of them carry with them associations that 
 make them prized. I may be forgiven if I mention the Berkeley 
 gold medals for proficiency in Greek, the result of a bequest by 
 the illustrious philosopher to whom I feel proud that I can trace 
 even a remote relationship. These may be small matters, but 
 they associate the University in its remodelled form with the 
 traditions of the past. It is a less sentimental benefit that gives 
 to the University an interest in the library, including the 
 magnificent collection of ancient Irish manuscripts, which 
 is now the exclusive property of Trinity College. 
 
 For the endowment of the new college I propose that on the 
 acceptance of the charter and the vesting of the existing property 
 of the Catholic University in the newly-incorporated college, 
 a sum of £30,000 should be handed over at once to the authori¬ 
 ties of the college to erect suitable buildings. It will be, of 
 course, for the authorities of the college to determine the most 
 convenient site, either in their present situation or in any other, 
 within a certain distance from the centre of the City of Dublin, 
 which I propose to fix at three miles. I would prefer they should 
 be placed in the immediate vicinity of Trinity College, and the 
 Bill gives power to the governing body of Trinity to sell or lease 
 for this purpose a portion of their ground, if the authorities of 
 the new college should be desirous of that site ; but this 
 is a matter entirely for the college itself. 
 
 There are many reasons which make it desirable that sub¬ 
 stantial proof should be given of the continued interest of the 
 Catholic people in the establishment of the new college, and I 
 therefore think that as soon as a further sum of £20,000 is sub¬ 
 scribed, making in all a contribution of £220,000, then, and not 
 till then, double that amount, or a sum of £440,000, should be 
 paid out of the Church surplus, bearing interest at 4 per cent, 
 until paid. 
 
 I ought to have stated that in vesting the property of the 
 present institution in the newly-incorporated College, I propose 
 
21 
 
 to exempt a very beautiful church now used as the chapel of the 
 institution. The property will continue vested in its present 
 owners. I omitted also to say that a sum of money, which I fix 
 at £80,000, will be required to provide new buildings-vior the 
 University. This would make the entire charge upon the Church 
 surplus to amount to £800,000. 
 
 I need not say that I omit many details ; I only wish to add 
 that the Bill empowers her Majesty to incorporate any other 
 college in the University of Dublin, provided that it should 
 appear expedient to her Majesty to do so, if its founders fix its 
 site within the distance of three miles from the centre of the 
 city. The mere charter of incorporation will give to such a 
 college all the privileges of other colleges as to its students pro¬ 
 ceeding to degrees, but ho change is to be made in the Univer¬ 
 sity except by a statute passed in the manner I have mentioned 
 by the University itself. 
 
 I have now laid before the House, at much greater length 
 than I could have wished, the general outline of the plan which 
 is embodied in the Bill I ask leave to bring in. Of course I 
 have not ventured to detain you by dwelling on minute details. 
 I trust I have said enough to explain its general features. The 
 proposal, expressed briefly, is to institute a second college in the 
 existing University of Dublin, to make that college one in which 
 the Roman Catholic people of Ireland can receive an education 
 in accordance with their own convictions, and to leave Trinity 
 College retaining its Protestant and religious character, to fulfil 
 to the Protestant people the very functions which it has so long and 
 so usefully discharged, and, at the same time, to permit the 
 national University to extend the benefit of its prizes and its 
 degrees to men who desire to pass through it without submitting 
 to the teaching of either of these colleges. 
 
 The plan I propose secures, at all events, three great 
 objects : it gives perfect liberty of religious teaching to both 
 Catholics and Protestants, while it forces that teaching upon 
 none ; it does not lower the standard or the status of the Uni¬ 
 versity Education; and it leaves both to the colleges and to the 
 University perfect independence of that State interference which 
 in every country has marred and degraded every system of Uni¬ 
 versity Education to which it has been applied. 
 
 Will the House permit me before I sit down to refer to some 
 testimonies to show how by the Irish people the principle of such 
 a measure is likely to be received. My first statement is taken 
 from a pastoral signed by all the Roman Catholic prelates of 
 Ireland on the 20tli of October, 1871. In that pastoral, after 
 asserting the necessity of basing education on religion, and 
 
22 
 
 pointing out the conditions requisite in any plan that will meet 
 the convictions of the Eoman Catholic people of Ireland, con¬ 
 ditions I must say in which I can find nothing unreasonable or 
 extreme, they go on to say:— 
 
 All this can, we believe, be attained by modifying the constitution of the 
 Dublin University so as to admit of the establishment of a second college 
 within it in every respect equal to Trinity College, and conducted on purely 
 Catholic principles, in which your bishops shall have full control in all 
 things regarding faith and morals, securing thereby the spiritual interests 
 of your children, placing at the same time Catholics on a perfect equality 
 with Protestants, as to degrees, emoluments and other advantages. 
 
 To show that this assent to a common University is given in no 
 niggardly or illiberal spirit, I will ask your permission to read an 
 extract from a tract written by Dr. Woodlock, the eminent and 
 accomplished clergyman who presides as Rector over the 
 Catholic University. 
 
 Some years ago Dr. Woodlock thus expressed himself at the 
 incorporation of a Eoman Catholic College in a National 
 University :— 
 
 The advantages of a Catholic College in a National University may be 
 summed up in one sentence—it would afford us the widest range of com¬ 
 petition, and give us at the same time separate education for Catholics. 
 
 I. The great, indeed the paramount, advantage of competition is 
 admitted upon all hands. By it emulation is kept up among youth, their 
 latent energies are evoked, and their intellectual powers developed to the 
 utmost. A system, then, which brings into competition all the youth of the 
 nation, must possess great educational advantages above any other, and 
 such, precisely, is a National University, where all the intellect of the 
 country would have to compete in a common arena for degrees, honours, and 
 other literary and scientific distinctions. Moreover, this emulation would be 
 increased by the fact, that there would be among the various colleges, a 
 struggle for intellectual superiority, which could not fail to be productive of 
 the greatest advantages to literature and science, each striving to out-do the 
 others in the race, in which all would be entered. 
 
 II. Again, the students of the Catholic College having won, as no doubt 
 they would win, distinctions in the intellectual arena, not only would their 
 equality or superiority with respect to their Protestant fellow-countrymen 
 be admitted at once, and this without any of that hesitation or delay which is 
 sure to occur before their literary or scientific standing will be recognised, if 
 their passport to distinction bear the signature of an exclusive institution, but 
 also the great question, whether in truth Catholic education does cramp the 
 human mind, would be decided by a tribunal whose authority Protestants 
 and Catholics must admit alike. It is most important for the social interests 
 of Catholics that the university degree borne by them should be a bona fide 
 mark of distinction, won in open competition with their fellow-countrymen 
 of all denominations. It is also of the greatest importance that the true 
 intellectual value of Catholic education should be publicly proved and 
 recognised by all, 
 
23 
 
 These, remember, are the words of a Roman Catholic ecclesiastic 
 at the head of that Roman Catholic institution which many of you 
 believe to he narrow and intolerant and exclusive in its princi¬ 
 ples. He challenges you to submit the result of the education 
 given by that institution to an open competition in which Pro¬ 
 testants, members of kindred, I will not say rival institutions, 
 are to take their place among the judges. The benefit he claims 
 for the Catholic institution is that those who receive its 
 education should be admitted to free competition, that the value of 
 that education should be submitted to this test. You tell me 
 you wish for young men of different religious persuasions to be 
 brought together that they may carry into after life the memo¬ 
 ries and the associations of early life. What is there in those 
 memories and associations more likely to bring men together 
 than those of the emulation and rivalry for the honours which 
 were offered to the competition of their early years ? To 
 that honourable emulation you are asked by a Roman Catholic 
 ecclesiastic to invite young Irishmen, whether Catholic or Pro¬ 
 testant. You, the British House of Commons, may reject that 
 appeal, but if you do, never again speak of the illiberaiity and 
 exclusiveness of the advocates of those w T lio ask for a system of 
 Roman Catholic education. 
 
 I have quoted for you the words of one whose position 
 entitles me to regard him as speaking the sentiments of the 
 Catholic community. Let me say that indications are every day 
 showing themselves on the part of the Protestant people of Ire¬ 
 land of a desire to meet such sentiments in a spirit of cor¬ 
 responding liberality. I believe that many, very many, of the 
 most distinguished members of the Protestant Church would 
 now gladly preserve religious education for their own people 
 even on the terms of conceding similar privileges to their Roman 
 Catholic countrymen. Many of the best and most distinguished 
 members of the Dublin University are advocates of the plan 
 which I propose. When I mention Dr. Haughton and MTvor 
 as two who have committed themselves in published essays to 
 its support, I mention names that command the respect of all, 
 but names that are only representative of the moral and intel¬ 
 lectual power that belongs to those who desire to see this great 
 question settled, and settled at once and for ever, upon the princi¬ 
 ples of the plan I propose. 
 
 In the hope that you will give me leave to bring in this Bill, 
 I fearlessly submit the plan to the criticism of this House, of 
 my countrymen of all creeds and classes, and of the British 
 public. I know and feel that in proposing a system of Univer¬ 
 sity Education, essentially interwoven with religion, I am running 
 
3 011 2 061619463 
 
 24 
 
 counter to the prejudices of many of those near me for whose 
 advocacy of equal rights for Ireland I cheerfully and gladly 
 acknowledge our obligations. But surely I may say to them that 
 ii them own principles are to he carried into effect upon this 
 vital question of the education of their children, you must yield 
 to. the feelings, the more than feelings, the deep-seated, the con¬ 
 scientious convictions of the Irish people themselves. Some of you 
 have said that you have felt constrained to give the Irish people 
 them own way upon the question of closing public-houses on Sun¬ 
 days. Have we not a better claim to have our own way as to the 
 character of the institutions that regulate the higher culture of our 
 sons. There are in this House those who sympathise with me in the 
 conviction of the necessity of basing education on religion, but 
 m whose views I must encounter the strong prejudice that is 
 entertained against anything that seems like making a provision 
 tor the teaching of the tenets of the faith which is held by the 
 gieat majority of the Irish people. I have left myself no time 
 to argue the question. This is not, perhaps, the occasion on 
 which I should do so ; hut yet may I venture to remind you that 
 your choice in Ireland is between abandoning altogether religious 
 education and providing for an education that will not ignore 
 the religion, of the people. The days are gone by when you 
 can maintain Protestant institutions unless vou are willing 
 to let Roman Catholic ones grow up by their side. Why, I ask 
 ol all parties m this House, will you not apply to Ireland the 
 principles which have been established in so many of your colo¬ 
 nies ? I ask of you to mould your institutions to the feelings and 
 the conscience of the people, instead of entering on the vain and 
 odious effort to break or . bend the conscience and will of the 
 people to institutions which you force upon a reluctant and a 
 struggling nation. In this matter of education, pre-eminently 
 and above all others, you must feel that you can only‘succeed 
 with the assent and co-operation of the people; and in the 
 belief that the plan I propose will attain that assent and co¬ 
 operation, I ask your permission to submit it to your judgment 
 by moving foi leave to bring in a Bill to make better provision 
 lor University Education in Ireland. 
 
 Publm ; Printed by W. J, Au.kv A Co„ Ryder’s Row, Capel Street.