REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO CONFER WITH THE AUTHORITIES OF THE STATE OF HEW YORK, RELATIVE TO A CONNECTION OF THE •-WJJ3E OF NEW YORK AND PENNSYLVANIA. Mr. PEMOSE, Chairman. READ IN SENATE, MAY 15 , 1839 . HARRISBURG: PRINTED BY E. GUYER. 1839 . £P iri 3 : REPORT. i I he committee appointed to proceed to Albany and consuls with the constituted authorities of the State of New York, to ascertain their views and wishes in relation to a connection of the public works of that State, with the North Branch canal, report: That during the late recess of the Legislature, and in discharge of the duty committed to them, they repaired to the city of Albany.— On their arrival they addressed the following note to his Excellency Governor Seward. Albany, April 9th, 1839. The undersigned have the honor to inform his Excellency Gover¬ nor Seward, that they were appointed a committee by the Senate of Pennsylvania to consult with the constituted authorities of the State of New York, “in order to ascertain their views in relation to a con¬ nection between the North Branch division of the Pennsylvania canal” and the Chenango or Chemung canals, or both, and that they are now in this city in execution of the duty committed to them. Your Excellency is no doubt aware, that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has been, for several years past, engaged in the con¬ struction of what is called the North Branch division of the Pennsyl¬ vania canal, that a large portion of that canal has been finished, and that the greater part of so much as is yet to be made, between the present point of termination in the Wyoming Valley and the line between the two States, is under contract. Several millions of dollars will be required to complete this canal to the State line, but without a connection with the public works of the State of New York, the canal, when completed, would be, comparatively speaking, as unprofitable, as, if the connection be made, it will be highly beneficial, as well to the State of New York \ able commerce in, and interchange of those great staples—coal, plas¬ ter and salt. The undersigned respectfully invite the attention of Governor Seward to this subject, and his consideration of the proper action to obtain such a conference with the constituted authorities of the State of New York in reference to it, as their appointment warrants, and the great importance of the object to the interests of both States re¬ quires. The undersigned have the honor to offer to Governor Seward the assurance of their highest respect. Governor Seward with a promptness and courtesy highly gratify¬ ing to your committee, immediately transmitted to the legislature, a message announcing their arrival, and inviting the adoption of such measures as the irnpoitance of the subject, and a 4 ‘becoming comity towards the enlightened and enterprizing Commonwealth of Pennsyl¬ vania” required. The Senate and House of Assembly, with equal promptness, ap¬ pointed a joint select committee, the Honorable Messrs. Dickinson, Maynard and Jones, on the part of the Senate, and the Honorable Messrs. Lewis, Clark, Hawley, Denniston and Porter, on the part of the Assembly, “to confer with the delegation of the Pennsylvania Senate,” in relation to a proposed connection of the public works of New York and Pennsylvania. This committee, constituted of gentlemen whose urbanity and in¬ telligence were alike complimentary to our State, and the body we had the honor to represent, met your committee and held with them a conference on the interesting subject entrusted to them. In that conference your committee verbally presented to the consideration of the honorable committee of the Legislature of New York, the weighty considerations in favor of the proposed connection between the public works of the two States, and were invited to put in writ¬ ing the views which they had thus given. In consequence of this request your committee addressed to the New York delegation the following communication. 5 Albany, April 12, 1839. Gentlemen la our conference of yesterday, on the subject of a connection between the North Branch division of the Pennsylvania canal and the canals of the State of New York, by the Shenango or Chemung canal, or both, we had the honor to present to your con¬ sideration facts bearing on this question, which at your request we 1 now submit in writing. Prior to the session of 1835-6 of our State Legislature, the North Branch division had been completed to the Lackawanna, near the head of the Wyoming valley, and within what is called the Northern Coal Field. So far it furnished for the coal of that region a prospect of a market to the south on the waters of the Chesapeake bay. At this point the policy of the State hesitated and paused ; but at the ses¬ sion of 1835-6, it was determined to complete the North Branch di¬ vision to the line separating the two States, and to look to a connec¬ tion with your public works for a more natural and convenient market for our coal, and for a return of a valuable commerce in the salt and plaster of the State of New York. The approach made, at a great t expense, by your State to the same point, by the construction of the Chenango and Chemung canals, leaving a distance, in the case of the former, of forty, and in the latter, of but twenty miles, between the n proposed termination of the North Branch canal and those canals re¬ spectively, justified the belief that New York intended to form these connections, and had in view the mutual benefits which induced Pennsylvania to adopt this policy. From the Lackawanna to the State line the distance is ninety-four miles, on which sixty-three miles of this canal have been put under contract, and about one million of dollars have been expended. To finish the entire line will require a further expenditure of about two millions of dollars. Should New York refuse to connect with our public works, this portion of the North Branch canal would probably be as unprofitable to Pennsylvania, as the Chenango and Chemung canals, without such connection, are likely to be to New York, and ’ hence the importance to Pennsylvania of ascertaining, before she pro¬ ceeds further with the prosecution of this work, “the views of the con¬ stituted authorities” of the State of New York on the subject. Should she prosecute the work with vigor, it may, and no doubt will be com¬ pleted in two, or at most in three years; but if your State refuse the connection, it is obvious that it will be but prudent on the part of ours, to suspend the further expenditure of money on the work. 6 To meet the objection which a narrow policy might suggest, that by this connection Pennsylvania may take from New York a portion of the western trade, which the latter now enjoys, we had the honor of suggesting that the greater distance between Buffalo and Philadel¬ phia, and the same place and New York, independent of the embar¬ rassment to trade which the transhipment to a rail road at Columbia presents, went to show that apprehensions on that score were not well founded. These distances, as nearly as we can ascertain them, are as follows : Miles. From Buffalo to Montezuma, 150 From Montezuma to Elmyra, through the Chemung canal, 82 From Elmira to the State line, 20 From the line to Lackawanna, 94 From Lackawanna to the junction of the North and West branch, 70 From the junction to Juniata, 39 From Juniata to Harrisburg, 16 From Harrisburg to Columbia, 29 From Columbia to Philadelphia, by rail road, 82 Distance by the Chemung canal, 582 From Buffalo to Utica, 250 From Utica to Binghamton, 96 From Binghamton to State line, 40 From State line to Philadelphia, 351 Distance from Buffalo to Philadelphia by the Chenango canal, 737 i v The distance from Buffalo to New York, through the Erie canal, 511 Showing, independent of other considerations, among which is the steamboat navigation from Albany, in contrast with the rail road transportation from Columbia, a difference in distance in favor of New York. But we had the honor of turning our attention to a view more con¬ genial to the enlightened government of our State, which has a regard to the mutual benefits which will be conferred upon both communi¬ ties by the proposed connection. Our Northern coal field, although within the territorial limits of Pennsylvania, by its position, if proper means are used to make it available to New York, may be considered as belonging, in its use and advantages, rather to the latter than the 1 former, although of course the consumption of coal in New York must be of advantage to Pennsylvania. In order to show the amount of advantage which New York would derive by the proposed connection, from the coal trade upon her public works, we presented facts bearing on the question in one aspect, the amount of revenue she was likely to receive from this trade in tolls upon her canals. When these connections are made, the distance by the Chemung canal from the line to Buffalo, will be 252 miles. From the same point by the Chenango canal to xiibany, 246 We assumed, that in the course of ten years, the transportation of coal by these connections, on the canals of New York, would be equal to the transportation of one million of tons per annum, a dis¬ tance of two hundred miles. This, at the rate charged on the Penn¬ sylvania canals, six mills per ton per mile, will produce to your State the very large sum of $1,200,000 per annum; not very far from the gross revenue now derived from your Erie and Champlain , canals. In order to show that this estimate was not extravagant, we refer- s red you to the following facts : The population of the State of New York at the last census, was 2,174,517. The population of London is 1,800,000; and the con¬ sumption of coal in the city of London, was, in the year 1832, 2,139,078 tons, while the consumption of Great Britain is variously estimated at from twenty-two to thirty millions of tons per annum. When we take into view the rapidly increasing population of your State, the almost equally rapid consumption of wood, the multiply¬ ing uses to which coal is applied and applicable, the supply of the great regions round our inland seas, to which by your canal there will be access, and the consumption in the steam navigation of the lakes and the ocean, we are persuaded that the estimate made is not extravagant. Considering this aspect of the question, regard must also be had to the tolls on other articles of commerce between the two States, more particularly the articles of plaster and salt, the use of which in Pennsylvania is of course very extensive. Further to support this view of the question, we submitted a comparison be- v tween the ascertained value and productiveness of canals, depending on agriculture and ordinary commerce, and those which may be call¬ ed coal and iron bearing canals. By a “ share list,” published in London, in October, 1833, the 8 following marked difference may be discovered in the value of the two descriptions of canals. British Canals on which Coal is not Carried. Name. Share. Selling price. Dividend. North Walsham and Dilham, £ 50 £io Oakham, 130 44 Wey and Arun,* 100 32 Portsmouth and Arundal ,* 50 10 Regent, 100 16 Grand Surrey, 100 22 Bassing Stroke, 100 5.5 Cray don, 31.2! 1 Thames and Medway, (old stock,) 30.4! 1 (new stock,) 100 0 Great Caledonia, in Scotland, across the island, lock 20 by 40, and 172 feet long, carrying a frigate of thirty-two guns, and a mer- chant vessel of one thousand tons, cost £986,924 | tolls in 1829, £2,575 4s. Qd .; expense £4,573 Os, . lid. British Canals upon which Coal is transported. Name and cost. Share. Selling price. Dividend. Grand Junction, $8,888,888, £100 <£245 £12 Leeds and Liverpool, 100 470 20 Coventry, 100 600 32 Neath, 107 290 15 Swansey, 100 220 12 Cromford, 100 300 18 Glamorganshire, 100 290 12* Oxford, 100 595 32 Forth and Clyde, 100 545 25 Stafford and Worcester, 140 610 32 Somerset, 50 170 11 Mersey and Irwell, 100 640 37! Duke of Bridgewater’s canal cost $1,555,555 ; yields an income per annum equal to its original cost. * These two canals connect London and Portsmouth, the depot of the British navy. 9 In Ireland, the Grand canal between Dublin and the river Shan¬ non, and the Royal canal from the same city to another point on the same river, the former one hundred and fifty-six miles in length, and the latter eighty-three miles, both passing through a rich agricultural country, with a dense population, do not pay in tolls enough to de¬ fray expenses. The canals in France, depending upon agriculture and ordinary commerce, are unprofitable in tolls, however beneficial to the coun¬ try in other respects. A similar difference between the canals thus contrasted, is discovered in Pennsylvania. Our main line, or Juniata division, has as yet yielded but three per cent, on its cost, while the Delaware division, on which the coal of the Lehigh is carried to Philadelphia, has exceeded five per cent. The difference is still more striking in the case of the Lehigh navi¬ gation and Schuylkill navigation; the former canal, forty-six miles and three fourths in length, was finished in 1819, at a cost of $1,000,000; it extends from Easton, on the Delaware river, to the company’s coal mines at Mauch Chunk. The shares of the stock of this company are fifty dollars, and they sell in the market at eighty-seven dollars. The Schuylkill navigation, from Philadelphia to Port Carbon, one hundred and eight miles in length, was finished in 1824, at a cost of $2,966,180; the shares are fifty dollars, and have sold for one hun¬ dred and seventy dollars. The company has p divided twenty-five per cent, on their stock. That is the maximum of dividend to which by their charter they are permitted to go. The facts we submit form a powerful argument in favor of the connection between the works of the two States; and we would re¬ spectfully add, that although we consider the argument drawn-from them conclusive, upon the question of mutual and equal benefit to both States, we would do violence to our own feelings of high re¬ spect for the intelligence of New York, if we did not advert, which we ask leave to do, to a higher consideration bearing upon this subject, than the mere question of the amount of tolls which New York will receive when these connections are made. This con¬ sideration is of the benefits which will be conferred upon the people of the two States, in the increased means of subsistence, comfort and civilization, which will be brought within their reach. The stone coal has been well regarded by those who have properly con¬ sidered the subject, as the basis of the wealth and power of Great 10 Britain, and her mines of this product, as a “ source of greater riches than ever issued from the mines of Peru, or from the diamond grounds at the base of the Neela Mulla mountains.” New York and Penn¬ sylvania, by connecting their public works, will share in this great source of individual and national wealth, and reciprocate in the inter¬ change of great staple commodities, the mutual benefits and advan¬ tages which, from their natural position and circumstances, they seem destined to impart to each other. It is not simply with reference to income to these States respectively that the question is important; it is of more consequence in view of the comforts and means of subsist¬ ence which are to be produced to a numerous population of free people which will inhabit them. Will you allow us to say that the pleasant intercourse with the representatives of your great State, in the different branches of her government, which our visit to Albany has permitted us to have, occasions, on our part, an increased interest in every new bond of connection between the two States. We have the honor to be, Very respectfully, your obedient servants, CHARLES B. PENROSE, WM. PURVIANCE, W. T. ROGERS, P. S. MICHLER, E. KINGSBURY, Jr. Committee of the Senate of Pennsylvania. To the Hon . Messrs . Dickinson, Maynard and Jones, and the Hon. Messrs. Lewis, Hawley, Clark, Denniston and Porter, Committee of the Senatt? and House of Assembly of the State of New York. The joint select committee of the New York Legislature being ap¬ pointed for the purpose of conference merely, did not consider them¬ selves warranted by the terms of their appointment, to express an opinion on the subject of the conference, or to advise the Legislature of that State what action they judged to be expedient. But at the request of your committee for such information as to the views of the honorable bodies which they represented, as they might be able to communicate, they with that candour and courtesy which marked their intercourse with your committee, informed them that there ex- 11 isted in the Legislature a diversity of opinion on the subject of the proposed connection of the works of the two States. That while a part of these honorable bodies were decidedly in favor of the connec¬ tion and the adoption of measures for its immediate construction, there was another portion as decidedly opposed to it, and who enter¬ tained the belief that to permit it to be made at all, would be injuri¬ ous to New York, by diverting a large part of her western commerce from her great commercial metropolis to ours. Another poition of the Legislature regarded the connection with favor, but were of opinion that it was inexpedient for New York at present to act on the subject. The chairman of the joint select committee, however, who was himself decidedly in favor of the immediate construction of the con¬ nection, said that the information which he had communicated, was given to meet our request, rather as the individual opinion of the members of the joint select committee, than as an official communica¬ tion. Your committee in the same spirit declared, that they entertained the belief that upon the favorable action of the State of New York, would depend the prosecution by Pennsylvania of a work, the value of which depends in a great degree upon that action. Your committee said that they did not know the peculiar situation of the State of New York in reference to her system of internal improvements, and that Pennsylvania did not desire to present any question, which might occasion embarrassment, by asking for imme¬ diate action, but that it seemed to your committee to be but just as well as prudent, before Pennsylvania proceeded with the further ex¬ penditure of money on the North Branch canal, to obtain from the Legislature of New York a resolution, pledging the faith of that State to make the proposed connection. That it was the opinion of your committee that the Legislature of Pennsylvania would be satis¬ fied with such a resolution, and would, if it were passed, proceed to the completion of this canal. Having accomplished, as far as it was practicable, the purpose of their appointment, your committee left Albany. Since that time the joint select committee by their chairman, the Hon. Daniel S. Dickinson, on the fourth day of the present month* made in the Senate the following report: 12 May 4, 1839,. Report of the joint select committee appointed to confer with the delegation of the Pennsylvania Senate , in relation to a proposed connection of public works of the States of New York and Penn¬ sylvania. Mr. Dickinson, from the joint select committee appointed by a con¬ current resolution of the 9th of April last, to confer with the honora¬ ble delegation of the Pennsylvania Senate in relation to a proposed connection of public works of the States of New York and Pennsyl¬ vania, reports: That in pursuance of said resolution they waited upon the highly intelligent delegation from the Pennsylvania Senate, consisting of the Hon. Charles B. Penrose, Speaker of that body, and the Hon. Messrs. Purviance, Rogers, Michler and Kingsbury, members there¬ of, who were delegated to confer with and ascertain the views of the constituted authorities of the State of New York upon the subject of connecting the public works of New York and Pennsylvania by the junction of the North Branch division of the Pennsylvania and the Chenango or Chemung canal, or both of them, at the State line, in the valley of the Susquehanna, near Athens, in the State of Pennsyl¬ vania. The North Branch division of the Pennsylvania canal has been completed up the Susquehanna river as far as Lackawanna, near the head of the Wyoming valley, and within the inexhaustible coal fields of that region. Lackawanna is ninety-four miles distant from the State line, the point of the proposed connection with the canals of this State. It seems that the Legislature of Pennsylvania during the session of 1835-6, in the belief that New York would eventually extend her ca¬ nals to the proposed point of junction, in case she could there con¬ nect with the canals of Pennsylvania, determined to extend and com¬ plete the North Branch division up the river to the State line, and for the purpose of calling the attention of this State to the subject, and giving strong evidence of the intentions of Pennsylvania, the con- 4 struction of the canal was commenced near the point of the proposed connection. About sixty-three miles of this canal have been placed under con- ^ tract, and about one million of dollars have been expended upon its construction; but inasmuch as it will require two millions or upwards more to complete the extension, and as it will be of little general 13 utility and afford a tiifling income, unless connected with the canals of this State, a more prudent and cautious policy has induced that State to pause and learn the views of the constituted authorities of this State before proceeding further with the said extension. In short, they avow it to be the intention of the Legislature of Pennsyl¬ vania, so far as they understand its sense, to abandon the proposed extension, unless this State shall indicate her intention to extend the Chenango or Chemung canals, or both of them at some future period; in such case, they express the belief that the Legislature of Pennsyl¬ vania will at the coming session, commencing the 7th of the present month, make an appropriation for the completion of said extension, and that the same will be finished with all convenient speed, proba¬ bly in the course of two years. At the request of the joint committee, the Pennsylvania delegation submitted to them a brief, but able and interesting communication upon the subject of the proposed connection of the public works of the two States, embodying within a small compass, much valuable information, placing the mutual advantages to be derived by the con¬ nection, in a strong and convincing light, which communication is herewith submitted. The power delegated to the joint select committee was confined, in the terms of the resolution appointing them, to that of a mere con¬ ference , and the discharge of their duty does not, in their opinion, necessarily require of them any thing further than to report the result of their interview with the Pennsylvania delegation. The committee, however, beg leave to submit that the subject of the proposed connection is one eminently deserving the early consid¬ eration of the Legislature. It is obvious that at a comparatively small expenditure, the public works, now unproductive and a heavy tax upon the State, may be rendered much more valuable, if not a source of revenue ; and the internal trade, consisting of an exchange' of the salt and plaster of New York, for the coal and iron of Penn¬ sylvania, independent of the increased tolls and salt duties, which will be paid into the treasury, cannot fail to advance the interests of all classes, in a large section of the State. Fuel is already an article ob¬ tained with some difficulty, and at an expense which has become bur- thensome in the cities and villages of the middle and western parts of the State. The forest is fast receding before the blows of the axemen, and it is perfectly obvious that in a short time, coal will be used not 14 only for fuel in all such places, but for manufactures, at the salt works, and for propelling locomotives upon rail roads and machinery,, The rich mineral treasures of these States are of themselves alike inexhaustible sources of wealth; but their value and utility must be increased to an incalculable extent, by increasing facilities for their cheap transportation through the interior and consequent ready ex¬ change. The policy of uniting the works of Pennsylvania and New York, is opposed, by some, upon the ground that it will tend to divert the trade of the west and of the interior, from the city of New York to that of Philadelphia. From the facts stated in the annexed communi¬ cation, showing the inward distance and necessary transhipments on the Philadelphia route, it would seem that if trade is so diverted, it must be very limited in amount. It is, doubtless, the only objection which can be urged against the proposed connection. But if it shall be found to be outweighed by more than corresponding advantages, arbitrary and imaginary boundaries should not alone prevent the con¬ struction of a work, otherwise desirable and advantageous. The committee deeply regret that circumstances beyond their con¬ trol, have prevented their giving to this subject the attention which its importance demands, and which the courtesy of the delegation, with whom they were appointed to confer, has invited and merited. They deem it due to that branch of the Legislature of a sister State, represented by said delegation, as well as to the gentlemen composing the same, that the sense of this Legislature be expressed upon the subject of the proposed connection of public works ; and although it is not within their province to advise what action should be had in the premises,, to the end that the Legislature may express its opinion, they have proposed resolutions which they ask leave to introduce. RESOLUTIONS. Resolved , (If the Assembly concur,) That it is expedient to com nect the public works of this State with those of Pennsylvania, at some convenient period, by uniting the Chenango or Chemung canal, or both of them, with the North Branch of the Pennsylvania canal, at the State line near Athens, in the State of Pennsylvania. Resolved , That his excellency the Governor be requested to trans¬ mit a, copy of the foregoing resolution to the Governor of Pennsyl 1 15 vania, with a request that the same be laid before the Legislature of that State. Your committee are informed, by a letter received from the Hon. D. S. Dickinson, that he had exerted himself daily, after these reso¬ lutions were introduced, to get action upon them, but without success. That he repeated this effort on the 7th instant, that being the last day of the session, when the unanimous consent of the body is ne¬ cessary to take up such resolutions, and the objection of one of the Senators again defeated the attempt, and the Legislature adjourned sine die , without having considered them. Your committee understood that their Legislature passed a bill for a survey of the Chemung, of the particular provisions of which jthey are not informed, and that a bill which was pending in the House of Assembly, for the extension of the Chenango canal, was not acted on, and remained, at the adjournment, among the unfin¬ ished business of the session. Your committee cannot close their report without adverting to the distinguished courtesy and respectful consideration with which they were received by the constituted authorities of our great sister State, who, no matter what may be the view entertained with regard to the interests of that State on the subject of the proposed connection, evinced that friendly feeling and courteous comity which should ever prevail between our sisterhood of republics. However this may have contributed to the personal gratification of your committee, it is due to the Senate which they had the honor to represent, as well as our sister State, that the amicable and candid spirit with which your committee was received and treated, should be the subject of respectful reference, as it always will be a source of pleasant recollection of personal kindness to the members of your Committee. They submit the following resolution : Resolved, That the committee be discharged from the further con¬ sideration of the subject. *