w^i^ 
 
 .^mm-
 
 L I B RARY 
 
 OF THE 
 U N IVLR51TY 
 or ILLINOIS
 

 
 MONASTIC AND CONYENTUAl. 
 INSTITUTIONS. 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 DELIVERED IX THE HOUSE OF COMMONS 
 
 C. N. XEWDEGATE, Esq., M.P., 
 
 (north WARWICKSHIRE) 
 
 ON THE 3ed day OF MARCH, 1865. 
 
 LONDON: 
 
 PRLSIED BY JAMES MELDKUM, 10, CURSITOE, STREET, 
 
 ClIAXCERY LANE. 
 
 MKCCCLXV.
 
 MR. NEWDEGATE 
 
 ON 
 
 MONASTIC AND CONVENTUAL 
 INSTITUTIONS. 
 
 HOUSE OF COMMONS. 
 Friday, March 3rd, 1865. 
 
 On the order of the day being read for the House to go 
 into Committee of Supply, 
 
 Mr. Newdegate moved that a select committee be ap- 
 pointed to inquire into the existence, character, and increase 
 of monastic or conventual etvablishments, or societies, in 
 Great Britain. He said : — It will be in the recollection of 
 the House that on the 8th of April last I ventured to 
 make a motion in the House for a committee to inquire 
 into the case of a Mr. Smee, detailed in a petition which 
 I presented to the House, with reference to certain circum- 
 stances connected with the last illness, burial, and the 
 disposal of the property of a Mr. Hutchison, a relation of 
 his, who became a member of the Society of St. Philip 
 Neri, or Society of Oratorians, which has an establishment 
 at Brompton, and also had a burial-ground at St, Mary's, 
 Sydenham. It was alleged on that occasion that this case 
 was to be adjudged b}^ the tribunals of the countr}', and a 
 circumstance occurred which tended to divert the atten- 
 tion of the House from the conclusion of the motion which 
 I then made, which going beyond the immediate case pre- 
 sented by the petition of Mr. Smee, proposed to inquire 
 into the conventual and monastic institutions, which have 
 increased so largely in this country. 7t liappencd that 
 Mr. Smee, without consulting mc, withouL my knowledge, 
 and without my consent, although he had placed his case 
 in my hands, addressed :i letter to the Duchess of Norfolk, 
 and printed and circulated th;it letter the day before with- 
 out my knowledge or consent. Perhaps no member of
 
 this House had more reason to complain of that proceeding 
 than myself. I had no opportunity of replyiiig on that 
 occasion ; but I now beg to assure the House that that 
 letter was printed and circulated without my knowledge 
 or consent. I allude to this circumstance because great 
 use was made of that letter for the purpose of diverting 
 the attention of the Hoiise from the more extended matter 
 of my motion ; and upon a division, in consequence, I may 
 say, to a great extent, of the circulation of that letter, the 
 motion was defeated. I am happy to say, however, that 
 the House afterwards gave me reason to believe that 
 the circumstances which I had adduced connected 
 with the burials in the burial-ground at Sydenham — 
 the inaccurate description of the dead, and the non- 
 registration of the burials — were circumstances worthy of 
 the attention of the Legislature, for I have this proof, that 
 the hon. and learned member for Guildford introduced a 
 bill for the registration of burials conducted in cemeteries 
 other than those of the Church of England. That bill passed 
 both Houses of Parliament by unanimous consent, and is 
 now the law of the land. The House will excuse me for ad- 
 verting to this fact, because I wish to show them that when 
 I venture to make a motion in this House it is never done for 
 the mere purpose of agitation, far less for purposes of 
 party triumph, but with an honest intention of effecting 
 an improvement in the law and performing ray duty as an 
 independent member, by suggesting matters to the House 
 which I respectfully deem worthy of their consideration. 
 And this was the case on that occasion. During the 
 debate to which I have referred allusion was necessarily 
 made to this Society of Oratorians, and a petition was 
 presented from the Kev. Mr. Harrison, of Bugbrook, in 
 Northamptonshire, complaining that his son, a minor, 
 when captain of the school at Westminster, had 
 been seduced — I use the term advisedly — into that 
 establishment contrary to his parental authority, had been 
 kept there in defiance of his parents' will, and had been 
 induced to enter that monastic order, for such I must 
 term it, to the detriment of his prospects in life. I know 
 not why, but the Committee on Public Petitions have not 
 thought proper to print this petition in their report. I 
 must express my surprise, for a more important petition 
 has seldom been presented to the House. It was 
 presented by the hon. member for Northamptonshire, the 
 representative of this injured gentleman, and it is with 
 the consent of his family that I now ask permission of the 
 House to read this petition. It runs thus — 
 
 " That on the 1st of March, 1861, your petitioner's son 
 was captain of the Westminster School, and would in the 
 course of a few weeks have obtained his election to a 
 junior studentship at Christ's Church, Oxford 
 
 " That up to Sunday, the 3d of March, in the same year, 
 your petitioners son had. never held the slightest com- 
 munication whatever with any Eoman Catholic priest • 
 that at one o clock ou that day ho was introduced to 
 
 ■ UIUC
 
 Father John Bowdeu, a priest of the Oratory, at 
 Brompton, to be shown, as he supposed, over that 
 estabhshment ; that he was detained in the Oratory by 
 various invitations and by other circumstances for the 
 remainder of the day, and was finally baptized at nine 
 o'clock the same night, with the knowledge and consent of 
 the Superior of the said Oratory, and for the express 
 purpose of debarring your petitioner from the exercise of 
 his just rights and authority as a parent. 
 
 " That your petitioner's son was at that very time in an 
 infirm st:ite of health, and was actually under medical 
 treatment ; that after his confession in Father Bowden's 
 room at a quarter before nine o'clock at night, he felt so 
 prostrated as to be obliged to lie down on a sofa ; and that 
 he was unwell and suffering from headache at the time of 
 his baptism. 
 
 " That in a letter addressed to his sister on the 8th of 
 March your petitioner's son described his reception into 
 the Church of Eome as a sin, and as having been obtained 
 by fraudulent means. 
 
 " That your petitioner, on the removal of his son from 
 Westminster, renewed the expression of his intention to 
 educate him for the Indian civil service, which offer he 
 seemed inclined to accept, but that the Superior or other 
 Fathers of the Oratory, oflfered him (as your petitioner is 
 credibly informed) £100 per annum if he would become a 
 postulant for the noviciate in their establishment. 
 
 "That in consequence of the infirm state of his health 
 your petitioner's son, shortly after his removal from West- 
 minster School, was sent by your petitioner to reside for 
 several w^eeks with a relation at the seaside, where every- 
 thing necessary for his health and comfort was most amply 
 supplied ; that the Superior of the Oratory gave him three 
 pounds to enable him to go to the Oratory whenever he 
 pleased, notwithstanding your petitioner's most positive 
 commands to the contrary. 
 
 " That your petitioner's son did go to the Oratory before 
 the time fixed for the expiration of his visit; that he 
 became a postulant, and was permitted to commence his 
 noviciate some months before his 19th year, notwith- 
 standing the strong letter of remonstrance your petitioner 
 wrote to the Superior, in which he forbade such a violation 
 of parental authority. 
 
 " Your petitioner therefore humbly prays your honour- 
 able House to inquire into the truth of the above allega- 
 tions, and to adopt such measures as to your wisdom shall 
 seem meet for the protection of fixmilies and the vindica- 
 tion of parental authority." 
 
 The petition is signed " J. H. Harrison." 
 This petition has not, I think, received the attention 
 which it ought. The House will, therefore, excuse me — 
 as I was consulted by that gentleman before he prepared 
 the petition, as I recommended him to seek legal advice 
 in order that it might bear the strictest investiga- 
 tion, and as I know he accepted my advice— if I say that
 
 I think that petition worthy of the attention of the House. 
 (Hear, hear.) I wish now to advert to another circum- 
 stance connected with the debate of last session, to which 
 I have referred, since, as I have said, I had no power or 
 opportunity of reply. During that debate the late 
 Attorney- General for Ireland (Mr. O'Hagan) said:— - 
 
 " Every one belonging to his religious creed (that is, the 
 Roman Catholic) knew that, which it was no shame to 
 the hon. member for North Warwickshire if he did not 
 know, the constitution of the community at Bromp- 
 ton did not in the smallest degree bring them within the 
 purview of the law. Persons who belonged to the Oratory 
 at Brompton — those who belonged to any communiby of 
 that distinguished Order — were not bound by vows such 
 as the hon, member appeared to suppose. It was a 
 matter of perfect notoriety that they lived together in com- 
 munity ; they were secular priests associating voluntarily, 
 not bound to remain together for a single hour, each hold- 
 ing his property, and able to dispose of it just as he 
 desired." 
 
 Now, that statement was in accordance with the evidence 
 afterwards adduced before the courts in this country, and it 
 was the paraphrase, and contained the substance of the evi- 
 dence adduced in 1855 before the Provincial Court of Genoa, 
 in Italy, when the constitution of this very Order was tested 
 by that tribunal for the purpose of ascertaining whether 
 the Order came within the law for the suppression of 
 monasteries in Italy ; and the Court, in the first instance, 
 decided that that description of the Order was correct, 
 and acted upon the supposition that those Oratorians had 
 been wrongly included in the decree which was to give 
 effect to the law passed by the Italian Legislature in 1855 
 for the suppression of the convents and monasteries of 
 Jesuits, Franciscans, and other regular Orders of the 
 Church of Rome in Ital}-. But the following year this ques- 
 tion was raised again by appeal iu the same Provincial Court 
 of Genoa, and that Court finally decided that the Order of 
 Oratorians came within the provisions of the law of 1855 — 
 that the decree for giving effect to that law correctly in- 
 cluded that Order; and, to the best of my belief, as that 
 decision was considered final, that Order is suppressed as 
 being one of the regular Orders of the Chur(;h of Rome, 
 although not, perhaps, coming technically and strictly 
 within the provisions of the Act of 1829 — the Act for the 
 Relief of Roman Catholic Disabilities, I wish to make 
 these statements to the House because the conduct of 
 the Oratorians in the case of Miss M'Dermot has 
 excited so much attention, and is not unlikely to come 
 before the courts again. It has already been investi- 
 gated before the magistrates ; and it is, I think, important 
 that the House should know that theltalian Parliament and 
 Government, who must have been more cognisant of and 
 possessed more knowledge on these subjects than the late 
 Attorney- General for Ireland thought the hon. member 
 for North Warwickshii e possessed, have decided that this
 
 is one of the Orders which it is expedient for the welfare 
 of the Italian people should be suppressed. I have 
 ventured to ask the House to appoint a committee in the 
 terms of my motion, and for this reason. It is notorious to 
 every one that of late years there has been a most enormous 
 and, I may say, unprecedented increase in those monastic 
 and conventual establishments in this country. Let me 
 show the House exactly wliat I ask. Last session I gave 
 notice for a return which should include some information 
 as to the locality of these establishments, the character 
 of their inmates, and the nature of their organisation. 
 The right hon. gentleman the Secretary for the Home 
 Department told me that I should find this information 
 in documents in the Registrar- General's office. I have 
 applied, but there are no such documents in the possession 
 of the Registrar- General. Well, then, this House, acting 
 in the spirit of the law of 1829, takes cognisance of con- 
 vents of women, in the terms of the Act, as establish- 
 ments the existence of which are at least recognised, 
 if not protected. These same clauses in the Act of 1829 
 strictly prohibit the establishment in this country of the 
 seminaries or houses of the Jesuits, and of the other male 
 Orders of the Church of Rome ; and I will call the recollec- 
 tion of the House to this fact, that these clauses of the Act 
 of 1829 are recited and re-enacted in the Act of 1860 for the 
 protection and due administration of Roman Catholic chari- 
 ties. Therefore, let the House remember that by its own act 
 these clauses are not obsolete, but were revived only five 
 years ago. Well then it is urged, " Oh, but these are 
 private establishments, especially the convents, with which 
 the Legislature has no more right to deal, and of which it 
 takes no more cognisance than of establishments consist- 
 ing of families of Roman Catholics, or of families belong- 
 ing to any other denomination." Now, look at what you 
 have done. You have provided for the due administration 
 of property belonging to these convents as though it were 
 possessed by a quasi corporation. You have forbidden 
 the acquisition of property by the male monastic Orders 
 in any such character ; and by the act of last session you 
 have provided for the registration of burials within the 
 precincts of these monasteries nnd convents. I say then 
 that the plea that these are private institutions in the 
 sense in Avhich thoy have been described as similar to pri- 
 vate families comes loo late. That interpretation is adverse 
 to the sense of every Roman Catholic country. In France 
 there are strict provisions for the regulation of these 
 establishments. The Mayor of the Arrondissement has a 
 direct power of visitation . The law provides that monastic 
 vows shall not be binding for more than five years. Then 
 take the case of Prussia. Here the law has been very 
 much relaxed since 1850. Formerly there were strict 
 provisions for the regulation of these places ; but 
 they are still kept within the cognisance of the State. 
 The present form of the administration in Prussia so 
 nearly and so practically approaches the despotic form
 
 ,.8 
 
 of Government, that the power reserveil to the CroYvn for 
 the visitation of these places, and of judgincj whethet* 
 admission to these establishments is justifiable, is found 
 to be amply sufficient for every purpose of guarding the 
 personal freedom and property of those who may think 
 fit to consign themselves to them. Then, turning to 
 Italy. Italy has found it nccessar3'^ for the establishment 
 of her freedom to suppress a large number of these 
 monastic institutions, and for the sake of her morality to 
 suppress many of the convents. Italy, in 1863, was but 
 following the example of England at the time of the 
 Reformation; the example of France in 1798, and the 
 example of Spain, bigoted Spain, in 1837. And with this 
 movement throughout the Continent, I trust the Parlia- 
 ment of England will forgive me if, in the face of the rapid 
 increase of these establishments at this time, I call upon 
 it to make some inquiry into the localities in which they 
 are to be found, as to the character of the Orders by whicFi 
 they are held, and to include in that inquiry the nature of 
 the discipline carried out within them. (Cheers.) To give 
 the House some idea of the increase of these establish- 
 ments, I iind in England and Wales there were religious 
 houses of men in 1841 but one ; of convents, 16 ; of colleges, 
 nine. But in 1851 there were religious houses of men 17 ; 
 convents, 53; colleges, 10. And now how stands the 
 account? In 1865 there are religious houses of men, 58 ; con- 
 vents, 187; colleges, 10 : and if to the account we add 14 con- 
 vents for Scotland, there are201 convents established in this 
 country, ar;d possessing, to my knowledge, in the midland 
 counties, considerable real property as well as personal 
 estate. I wish, in addressing myself to this subject, to 
 say a few words in order to dispel the illusion that this 
 motion is a mere ebullition of Protestant bigotry. I will 
 recall for one moment the attention of hon. members to 
 some passages in the history of tlieir own country, which, 
 I think, must have escaped their attention. I find in a 
 work of Lord Lyttelton, tlie ancestor of the accomplished 
 peer who now bears that name, that in the reign of 
 Henry IT. the rapid increase of these establishments— 
 about as rapid as that which is now taking place— was 
 considered a grievous detriment to the country. Lord 
 Lyttelton says : — 
 
 "The great increase of religious houses must be 
 reckoned among the evils of this age (Hem-y II). The 
 author of the ' Kotitia Monastica' computes the number 
 of such houses built in England during the reigns of 
 Henry I., Stephen, and Henry II., at no less than 300. 
 And Mr. Inett asserts that more monasteries and other 
 religious societies were founded in that kingdom during 
 the single reign of Henry I. than in 500 jears before. But 
 he rightly observes that this was not peculiar to this 
 nation. The high opinion of the merit of such founda- 
 tions, infused into the minds of the laity by the divines of 
 those days; the hopes of compounding in this manner 
 with the Deity for the greatest offences ; but more espe-
 
 cially the liberty, granted by the Pope, of commuting 
 for vows made to go to the holy wars by benefac- 
 tions of this kind, filled all Europe with convents. 
 In the year 1152 the Cistercian order, which had been 
 founded in 1098, had no fewer than 500. Among other 
 causes of the increase of monasteries in this kingdom may 
 be reckoned the civil war with which it was afilicted during 
 the reign of King Stephen. For many of the nobility engaged 
 in those troubles endeavoured to atone for the pillage of 
 the people and other crimes they had committed by rais- 
 ing or endowing rehgious houses, and others desired to 
 secure for themselves and their children a quiet asylum in 
 these places. The pernicious consequences of such num- 
 bers of men and women being confined to a life of celibacy 
 were grievously felt in the reign of Henry II., by con- 
 tinuing and increasing the depopulation of the country, 
 which the commotions in that of his predecessor had oc- 
 casioned. Nor was it a small inconvenience to the Govern- 
 ment of this monarch in his disputes with the Pope, that 
 he had so many persons in his realm, who, by their sepa- 
 ration from society, and the nature of their institutions, 
 were more devoted to the see of Eome than the secular 
 clergy, which difference showed itself upon several occa- 
 sions in the conduct of both. And the practice of exempt- 
 ing monks from the proper authority of the diocesan 
 bishops increased this mischief." 
 
 Nothing towards abating these evils was done in the 
 reigns of Henry III. or TV. Henry Y., a Eoman CatholiG 
 sovereign, found it necessary to suppress a great num- 
 ber of monasteries. In Kennett's *' Cases of Impropria- 
 tions," page 119, it is stated that— 
 
 "Had the monasteries been dissolved in Henry Y.'s 
 reign, when the bill was brought into Parliament for that 
 purpose, it would have been more regularly and justly con- 
 ducted than in an after reign ; that by this would all have 
 reverted to the parish churches, and the clergy would have 
 gained as much by it as the Government. This appears 
 from the sequel, that when the King, instead of the 
 English monasteries, had only the alien priories given 
 him, he seized on no part of the tithes, but on the lands 
 and tenements that were before of lay fee, and might 
 justly return into lay hands. These, too, he intended to 
 have employed for breeding up a more learned clergy, 
 declaring it was his design to found a college of divines 
 and ariists, and to settle upon the said college the lands 
 of the alien priories dissolved, if he had not been prevented 
 by death. In the first act of dissolution there was a saving 
 to the interest of strangers, travellers, and poor, by bind- 
 ing the new possessors of any site or precinct of the reli- 
 gious houses to keep, or cause to be kept, an honest con- 
 tinual house and household in the same site or precinct." 
 
 . . . " In a preamble written by the King's own 
 hand to another Act, it was declared to be an intent that 
 the endowments of monasteries might be turned to better 
 use, God's Word better set forth, children brought up in
 
 10 
 
 learning, clerks nourished in the Universiticc, and exhibi- 
 tion for ministers of the Church. Divers of the visitors 
 themselves did petition the King to leave some of the religi- 
 ous houses for the benefit of the country, and Latimer moved 
 that two or three might be left in every shire for pious 
 uses. I have seen an original letter from Latimer to the 
 Lord Cromwell (Cleopatra, E. IV., fol. 261) to intercede 
 with the King that Malvern Abbey might he left standing 
 for the better performance of the duties of preaching, 
 praying, and keeping hospitality.*' 
 
 Blackstone on the same subject observes that " the spirit 
 of the nation being so much raised against foreigners, 
 that about this time, in the reign of Henry Y., the alien 
 priories, or abbeys, for foreign monks were suppressed, 
 and their lands given to the Crown. And no further 
 attempts were afterwards made in support of these foreign 
 jurisdictions." I will quote, besides, another historical 
 authority which I wonder should have escaped the obser- 
 vation of the hon. and learned members of this House. I 
 find in Hallam's " Middle Ages," vol. IL, pages 366-7 : — 
 
 "The virtues, indeed, or supposed virtues, which had 
 induced a credulous generation to enrich so many of the 
 monastic orders, were not long preserved. We must 
 reject, in the excess of our candour, all testimonies that 
 the middle ages present, from the solemn declaration of 
 councils and reports of judicial inquiry to the casual evi- 
 dence of common fame in the ballad or romance, if we 
 Avould extenuate the general corruption of those institu- 
 tions. In vain new rules of discipline were devised or the 
 old corrected by reforms. Many of their worst vices grew 
 so naturally out of their mode of life, that a stricter discip- 
 line could have no tendency to extirpate them. Such 
 were the frauds I have already noticed, and the whole 
 scheme of hypocritical austerities. Their extreme 
 licentiousness was sometimes hardly concealed by the cowl 
 of sanctity. I know not by what right we should disbe- 
 lieve the reports of the visitation under Henry YIII., 
 entering as they do into a multitude of specific charges, 
 both probable in their nature, and consonant to the unani- 
 mous opinion of the world. Doubtless, there were many 
 communities as well as individuals, to whom none of these 
 reproaches would apply. In the very best view, however, 
 that can be taken of monasteries, their existence is deeply 
 injurious to the general morals of a nation. They with- 
 draw men of pure conduct and conscientious principles 
 from the exercise of social duties, and leave the common 
 mass of human vice more unmixed. Such men are always 
 inclined to form schemes of ascetic perfection which can 
 only be fulfilled in retirement ; but, in the strict rules of 
 monastic life, and under the influence of a grovelling 
 superstition, their virtue lost all its usefulness. They fell 
 implicitly into the snares of crafty priests, who made sub- 
 mission to the Church not only the condition but the 
 measure of all praise." 
 Again in Hallam's " Constitutional History," it is stated
 
 11 
 
 "nt Ihe'C'of .'r,iii-.'iro«!d bo ,.uU.ip!io<l by .oven o. 
 eight to ,5ccrtam V'^.c value ia onv pv..ot.t r.«.cy. U. 
 
 ''"Th^ inco..ie of the uiona-tencs prior to their dU.oh.- 
 ritu°--.KoraiaMonasUO- puts the, .n^^^ 
 
 firth o?*e kin^dcn, and in value, by reason ol ihoa- long 
 
 Kme^aX;:- (Hai'lan,) '-ving deseribed the mode in 
 which the monasteries were dissolved and the p.opcity 
 
 by'lup'rstitious pageantry, or in the encouragement of 
 
 ftSthf H:Sr;ha™g allowed Xtrt tS 
 
 the suppios^iuj o alone? The other day, iti 
 
 nation 'h« aet of Henu. /il^- atoi ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ j^^^^^^._ 
 
 Z<irthat SinalMm.to'n, (an English cardinal) applied 
 ^ the Pone for permission to reform a number o raonas- 
 
 SoiSL:is£=:^-^s:;™f^i^ 
 
 So'reSSJ^t-hie^t^ffbr^ 
 
 Sferti::tTnt^er^'^;Secf:rUr^^ 
 
 committed in these convents and monasteries. And^vhen 
 I Tm rdd ?liab the objections to the revival of these
 
 12 
 
 the suppression of the monasteries in the reign of Henry 
 YIII. The Eev. H. Seymour, in his lecture at Bath on 
 the 6th of February last, said : — 
 
 " It will be recollected that one of the measures that 
 immediately preceded the Reformation of the Church of 
 England was a measure for the suppression of the monas- 
 teries. That measure has been denounced by our Roman 
 Catholic friends as a measure of robbery, and spoliation, 
 and sacrilege ; as a measure of such a character that none 
 but a heretic could have devised it, and none but a tyrant 
 could have sanctioned it. Perhaps, sir, they are nearer 
 the mark than they themselves are aware, for that measure, 
 whatever was its character was originally devised by a 
 cardinal, and simctioned by a Pope. (Hear, hear.) The 
 facts of the case are these : — Cardinal Morton was Papal 
 Legate in this country at the Court of Henry YII. 
 He found the monasteries in such a state of demoralisation 
 and disorganisation that he applied to the Pope for the 
 requisite powers to amend and improve them. Pope 
 Innocent VIII., then at Rome, immediately complied with 
 the request, and issued his rescript or bull giving the 
 requisite authority. Bat inveterate abuses take long to 
 eradicate, and before the work had well begun Cardinal 
 Morton lay in his grave, Henry YII. was gathered to his 
 fathers, and Pope Innocent YIII. had gone the way of all 
 flesh. We find next Cardinal Wolsey upon the scene as 
 Papal Legate at the Court of Henry YIII. Cardinal Wolsey 
 found some of the monasteries in a state of disorder — 
 disorder in their finances, disorder in their morals — and he 
 applied to the Pope for the requisite powers, not like his 
 predecessor, to amend and reform, but to suppress the 
 monasteries. (Hear, hear.) Pope Clement YII., then at 
 Rome, immediately complied with his request, and issued 
 his bull or rescript to the Cardinal Legate, authorising him, 
 as he saw fit, to suppress all and every monastery in the 
 whole realm of England. So that if this measure were a 
 measure of robbery, and spoliation, and sacrilege, if it were 
 a measure that none but a heretic could devise, and none 
 but a tyrant could sanciion, there is no truth more certain 
 than that it was devised by Cardinal Wolsey, and sanc- 
 tioned by Clement YII. (Hear, hear.) The Cardinal 
 immediately proceeded to his work. He suppressed ofi- 
 hand forty of the lesser monasteries, and with a part of the 
 proceeds he endowed Christ Church, Oxford. Some of 
 the larger monasteries, frightened by these proceedings, 
 surrendered, and were suppressed, and the Cardinal was 
 going lightly and jauntily on his course of suppression, 
 when the great quarrel and confusion arose between the 
 King and the Cardinal, and then with the Pope. In the 
 midst of this confusion, which was a great day for England, 
 we could see looming in the distance something that 
 looked like rogues falling out, and honest men coming by 
 tlieir own ; and Henry YIII., who was as shrewd a man 
 as ever lived, fixed his hands on the Papal bull or rescript 
 authorising the suppression of monasteries. These facts
 
 .13 
 
 seem to me to prove that the suppression of monasteries 
 is not materially a Protestant measure, but that it is 
 essentially a Konian Catholic measure." (Hear, hear.) 
 Hon. members of the Roman Catholic persuasion 
 forget that, ^Yllen Henry VIII. succeeded to the throne, 
 he ^vas more eminently Roman Catholic, perhaps, than 
 any sovereign of his time. Why, the Pope himself 
 endowed him with the title of Fidel Defensor, for Henr^-, 
 being an accomplished scholar, had written an answer to 
 Luther. Henry VIII., through Cardinal Wolsey, applied 
 for power to suppress the monasteries. The Cardinal 
 agreed, and obtained the sanction and authority of the 
 Pope to the measure ; therefore, to tell any hou. member 
 who, like myself, has been educated at Christ Church, 
 Oxford, that this was not the fact — to tell the right hon. 
 gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the college 
 of which he is so bright an ornament was not established by 
 funds derived from the source I have described, is really to 
 presume on an incredible amount of ignorance and want of 
 research. (Hear, hear.) Why, it was Cardinal Wolsey 
 himself, the Pope's Legate, who took the funds from the 
 monasteries to found Christ Church; and a blessed work 
 it was. (Cheers and laughter.) Therefore, when I ask 
 the House to ])ay some attention to the rapid growth of that 
 which, in the deliberate judgment of two English cardinals, 
 and two successive Popes, before the Reformation, was 
 held to be a national disease, I hope hon. members will not 
 think me presumptuous in expressing the strong public 
 feeling which exists, that it is the duty of the Legislature 
 to inform itself by its own inquiries with regard to an 
 increase of these institutions, which causes so much 
 uneasiness throughout the land. If the Legislature of 
 England persistently ignores the existence of these esta- 
 blishments, and only trusts to the casual information 
 which, with extreme difficulty, is procured as to certain 
 malpractices that have come to light — if the Legislature 
 continues in this state of wilful obtusity, why, it stands to 
 reason that now, when the Roman Catholic countries of 
 the Continent find it necessary to eject the inmates of 
 these institutions from their shores, they will find a 
 barbour here, and that we in England shall inherit 
 the evils from which the Continent is rapidly being 
 delivered? (Cheers.) That is a fact which stands 
 to reason. Almost every member of this House knows 
 that foreign monks and foreign nuns come here, some to 
 take direction of establishments already existiug, and 
 others to found establishments of their own. Thus we 
 have growing up in this country the very evil at which 
 Henry V., Roman Catholic sovereign of England, in the 
 thirteenth century, aimed a blow by the suppression 
 of the alien monasteries. Is it reasonable, then, to 
 ask us to ignore these facts? That the public do 
 not think it reasonable, is evident from the num- 
 ber of petitions which have been presented to the 
 House. (Hear, hear.) And now I will touch for one
 
 14 
 
 momenl-, on ;lie case of Miss M'Dermot. What is 
 the evidence in that case? It is this. Miss M'Der- 
 mot, being then a minor of the age of 15, was with- 
 drawn I'rom the natural protection of her mother, and the 
 case was brought before one of the metropoUtau magis- 
 trates, Mr. Selfe. He declared that the law did not give 
 him power to enforce the restoration of the child to her 
 parent. In the kindliness of his heart he used more 
 private exertion than, I think, his oflficial and judicial 
 position justified him in doing, to accomplish tbe object 
 which his humanity dictated — namely, the restoration of 
 the daughter to her mother. The law was in that case 
 violated, and what have we in evidence as to the mode in 
 which it was resisted ? Why, those priests who got pos- 
 session of this young girl calumniated her character and 
 the character of her mother. Now, calumn}'^ against the 
 characters of women, for the purpose of coercing them 
 into submission, is a favourite weapon of the priests — 
 (hear, hear)— and if it be not restrained, although I have 
 great trust in the spirit of order among Englishmen, I 
 warn this House lest a violation of peace should be 
 excited. It was only yesterday I received the account of 
 a young man, of 17 years of age, an undergraduate of Cam- 
 bridge, having been, two years ago, induced to leave his 
 parents' house for the purposeof entering a monastery in a 
 distant county. His brothers heard of it and went to the 
 monastery and told the Superior that, being a minor, they 
 claimed him as his nearest of kin. The Superior would not 
 listen to them, and resisted. The brothers said, "We do not 
 come here to violate the law, but we know you have got 
 our brother in your possession. We have four friends 
 here, and if you do not give him up we will take him." 
 (Cheers and laughter.) The Superior then yielded. If you 
 put a stress of this kind upon Englishmen they will break 
 loose. If an endeavour is made to withhold children from 
 their parents, or a brother being a minor from his elder 
 brothers who stand to him in loco jparentis, you will find 
 that the English people (as in many cases the American 
 people have done) will take the law into their own hands, 
 regardless of the consequences. (Cheers.) Tiien there is the 
 case of Miss Ryan. As I believe other members will speak 
 of that, I will not dwell upon it ; but it appears she was 
 taken from a conventual establishment in this City, and 
 transferred to a lunatic asylum in Belgium. She screamed, 
 she struggled, she implored assistance from every passer- 
 by; and it is admitted by the Government that those 
 means for testing the sanity or insanity of this poor girl 
 which the law prescribes, had not been complied with. 
 It is stated that Dr. Miller, a distinguished medical prac- 
 titioner, had given a certificate of insanity, but I have a 
 letter from Dr. Miller to say that he gave no certificate at all. 
 (Hear.) I do not know what the Government mean to do in 
 this case. The corporation of Dover, who very properly 
 interfered when they became cognisant of the facts, have 
 been informed that the law officers of the Crown admit that
 
 15 
 
 the law was vi 'atecl and set at nought, but they say that it 
 was not done > ith a bad intentiou. (Cheers.) These are 
 things which try the patience of Englishmen. (Cheers.) 
 The EngUsh of all nations in the world are most orderly 
 and attached to the law ; but once let them feel that there 
 is some organisation in this country, especially if it be an 
 organisation with a foreign connection which can defy the 
 lawand set an example of lawlessness, and you will find them 
 much more difiicult to restrain, because the great charac- 
 teristic of the English people is their devotion to the ties 
 of family. (Loud cheers.) Once let John Bull put on the bull- 
 dog and you will not find it %'ery easy to make him loose 
 his hold. I would not have ventured to bring this subject 
 before the House if I had no facts which were not known 
 to the House and to the public. These cases of Miss 
 M'Dermot and Miss Ryan are fully before the House ; 
 the Government and the public are cognisant of both. 
 But there is a case of graver importaiice than either of 
 these, of which there is direct and sworn evidence in exist- 
 ence, and of which, I believe, neither the Government, 
 nor the House, nor the public, are cognisant. There are 
 convents in tlie midland counties ; there is one at 
 Princethorpe in ISTorth Warwickshire, and under that 
 convent are several underground cells, with very strong 
 doors and very good locks. The man who made these 
 doors and fitted the locks when that convent was built, 
 afterwards worked for me. I speak of the late Mr. Charles 
 Ball, master builder, of ISTuneaton. I regret to say that he 
 is now dead ; but I know him to have been a trustworthy 
 truth-speaking man. He was at first told that the 
 locks were not good enough, and that he must get better ; 
 accordingly he went to Birmingham and procured better 
 locks. (Laughter and cheers.) Yes, I have reason to believe 
 that these were most admirable locks. (A laugh.) Many 
 years ago there was an escape from another convent — that 
 at Atherstone. A poor nun had got across the road and 
 halfway across the next field. She was captured and 
 forced back into the convent. Those who lived in the 
 vicinity of the convent became uneasy; and all we can say 
 is that we know that there were 15 cwt. of iron bars after- 
 wards put in the windows of the convent very soon after 
 the escape. The neighbours did not like these ways of going 
 on, and a close watch was maintained. All at once a priest 
 connected with the convent became wonderfully com- 
 municative. He said it was quite true that the discipline 
 was infinitely too severe, that he was not in the least 
 surprised that there had been an attempt at escape, that 
 he was going to give up his situation, that he would no 
 longer be connected with such an establishment, that the 
 Order was about to be changed, that nuns of an Order 
 with a less severe discipline were to succeed those whose 
 practices had thus shocked the neighbours, and so the 
 whole community — nuns, priest, confessor, and all — 
 disappeared. Then there was the case at Derby. At 
 Derby the corporation were uneasy because burials were
 
 16 
 
 known to have taken place within the convent walls, while 
 no deaths were registered. The whole case was brought 
 before the corporation and the Home Secretary. The same 
 thing happened as at Atherstone. The community was 
 removed ; but something more was done — the convent was 
 pulled down. There is another case, and here I speak from 
 sworn affidavits. In February, 1857, it became known 
 that a nun had escaped from the Benedictine Priory at 
 Colwich, in Staffordshire. She was seen at the back of 
 the convent on the line of railway ; she went to the 
 pointsman first, and then to the stationmaster. She was 
 described as dreadfully emaciated, poorly clad, and in the 
 greatest state of terror. She seemed anxious to conceal 
 herself; after some time she went by the railway to Staf- 
 ford, and at Stafford it fortunately happened that an old 
 general officer was at the station and saw her. She 
 went on to Birmingham ; that night a telegraphic 
 message passed up the line to the effect that Dr. Ulla- 
 thorne would bring her back to the convent. I shall 
 not mention any other names in this case. He did bring 
 her back; and the circumstance of her being brought 
 back closely veiled and closely watched created an uneasi- 
 ness in the public mind. We do not like these things in 
 the midland counties. This happened not very long after 
 the discovery and conviction of the poisoner Palmer. The 
 Government would not allow us midland counties people 
 to try that man. He was tried in London, coolly, pro- 
 perly, according to due course of law, and hanged. That 
 circumstance produced a good deal of excitement in the 
 neighbourhood, and the people were more watchful in con- 
 sequence, for the crime was perpetrated at no great 
 distance. There was the most extreme difficulty in pro- 
 curing evidence in the case of this nun. I have a com- 
 plete narrative of what was done in the case, written by a 
 person whom I will not name ; bat he took the matter up 
 in the spirit of an Englishman. I have before me the 
 name of the solicitor who was engaged in the inquiry. 
 This person had never seen this young woman, but he was 
 determined, from all he heard in the neighbourhood, that 
 the circumstances of the case should be brought out. He 
 was assisted on the occasion by the Protestant Alliance in 
 London. "Well, the priests and those connected with this 
 convent, when aware of the inquiry, threatened in the 
 most malignant terms every person who might give 
 evidence upon the subject. They obtained the dismissal 
 of the clerk through whom the telegraphic message should 
 have been sent. It was a most happy circumstance that 
 he was absent from his post at the moment the message 
 came to the office, and he had left another person to 
 transmit the message. That person was not bound by 
 the obligation of secrecy, and it was through him that 
 Superintendent Field, the detective officer, found out the 
 name of the poor nun. It was not known for months, and 
 would most probably never have been known had it nob 
 been for that happy accident. After Inspector Field
 
 17 
 
 came down the terror which had been excited subsided, 
 and people began to speak out. An a] v'ication Avas- ranrlc 
 to t^-c Court of Qncen'.- Bench for a wnu (jniaheas Curpus. 
 Affidavits were produced, and plans of the premises, all of 
 which are in my possession, together with the primary 
 examination. I would not venture to bring that case 
 before the House on my own authority, but I will read to 
 the House an account of what occurred in the Court of 
 Queen's Bench as it has been drawn up by one of the 
 gentlemen specially engaged in the transaction : — 
 
 •' The evidence being now complete, an application was 
 made to the Court of Queen's Bench before Mr Justice 
 
 Wightman on the day of July. After hearing counsel 
 
 in support of the case for a writ of Habeas Corpus, his 
 lordship expressed his wiUingness to issue an order to the 
 authorities at the convent to show cause why a writ should 
 not issue. As this, however, would have prematurely 
 opened a discussion in court, the council after a con- 
 ference, intimated their willingness to abide by his 
 definite decision. His lordship, therefore, promised to 
 take the affidavits home with him to peruse them, and to 
 
 give his decision in the following week 
 
 At the appointed time Justice Wightman stated that he 
 had carefully read the evidence, but that he should have 
 again to defer his decision, as it did not appear that any 
 application had been made at the convent for permission to 
 
 see Miss " (this nun). 
 
 I will not give her name, or those of others concerned 
 (for I know not whether she is ahve or dead), until this 
 House may think fit to appoint a committee, and thus 
 to cast over the witnesses the protection of its 
 authority. The narrative continues that Mr. Justice 
 Wightman said : — 
 
 ♦' An appUcation must, therefore, be made for a private 
 interview with her, to ascertain if she were confined 
 against her will; and, if refused, or, the permission beincr 
 granted, she stated that she was so confined, then he 
 would grant a writ. His lordship said it was a most 
 interesting and uncommon case ; but as it was likewise a 
 very important one, it was necessary that great circum- 
 spection should be used." 
 
 The persons whom the judge commissioned went down 
 to Colwicb, and the narrative goes on to say :— 
 
 *' Having met, we proceeded to the convent, and arrived at 
 the door at 11.35 on the 14th of July. Being opened, I pre- 
 sented my card to the servant, who was dressed in black, and 
 
 on the request to see Mrs. , the Mother Superior, we 
 
 were shown into thevisitors' waiting-room, a large, cheerless 
 apartment, hung round with pictures of saint's and small 
 coloured cngravmgs with plain ungilt frames. At the 
 end of the room was a large counter covered with oil- 
 cloth, which entirely reached across the room and divided 
 it into two parts. Behind this was a door. We had 
 been kept waiting for about a quarter of an hour when 
 two nuns entered by the door behind the counter and 
 inquu'cd our business, stating that the Mother Superior
 
 .18 
 
 was much engaged. I said that we could not com- 
 municate the purport of our visit except to her, upon 
 which they retired, having first requested to be present 
 at the interview. Again we were lefb alone for about a 
 quarter of an hour, and had ample time to canvass the 
 dress and the manners of the Sisters of the Benedictine 
 Order of Nuns. Wiiab we both remarked, apart from 
 their picturesque dress, was the total absence of soul or 
 animated expression in their faces. There was a coldness 
 and want of feeling in their manner which comported well 
 with the appearance of the place, but it failed to impress 
 or interest us in their behalf. If there was happiness in 
 their hearts the outward and visible sign was sadly want- 
 ing. After waiting what appeared to us a long time, Mrs. 
 
 , the Mother Superior, entered, accompanied by two 
 
 nuns. After saying that I presumed I was addressing the 
 Mother Superior, to which she nodded assent, I told her 
 
 that we had called as friends of Miss , and should 
 
 be glad to be permitted to see her. She immediately re- 
 plied that ■ was not there, as she had left the 
 
 convent several mouths before — early in May. I affected 
 surprise, and inquired where she had gone to. Without 
 hesitation she replied that she left there for a convent at 
 Staplehill, near Wimborne, Dorsetshire ; that she was 
 not very well, and thought a change would be desirable. 
 I expressed regret at not seeing her, and inquired par- 
 ticularly about" her health, and whether she had heard 
 from her. ' Oh, yes,' she replied, ' I have received several 
 letters from her, in which she describes the happiness which 
 she enjoys in her new abode, and thanking me repeatedly 
 for the undeviating kindness which she experienced while 
 being here; the undeviating kindness;' — repeating the 
 words, but addressing me — ' perhaps you would like to 
 see her letters, she writes in such excellent spirits.' I 
 thanked her for her courtesy, but assured her it was suffi- 
 cient to know from her that my friend was happy, and 
 again in the enjoyment of health. Alluding again, to her 
 
 leaving there, the Mother Superior said that Miss 
 
 seemed to like a change, for she had be^n in several con- 
 vents. After taking down the address, in case I might 
 wish to write to her, we retired, thanking the Mother 
 Superior for her kindness ; for the object of the visit being 
 accomplished, so far as it could be, I was desirous of 
 avoiding any cjuestions, as they might have been incon- 
 venient to answer." 
 
 According to the directions received from Mr. Justice 
 Wightman, all these facts were reported to him, and he 
 desired that the persons engaged in the inquiry should 
 proceed to the convent of Staplehill, near Wimborne, in 
 Dorsetshire. They were the aged general oflicer who 
 iir.sb saw the nun, his wife — a lady eminently qualified 
 for the rnlssion of charity which she undertook — and the 
 gentleman who had written the account. They found at 
 Staplehill a conveutof apparently a totally different descrip- 
 tion. They had an interview with the nun, which the narra- 
 tive from which! have these extracts describes as follows:—
 
 19 
 
 " So I said ' Mids , I have no time for trifliug. 
 
 When I tell you that for months past I have had but one 
 object in view to serve you, and if possible to come to your 
 rescue, and to accomplish this interview it has cost m6 
 nearly one hundred pounds in my efforts to trace you, I 
 think you will admit that, although I am a perfect stranger 
 to you, I am at least entitled to your candour.' I shall not 
 easily forget the earnest look which she gave me. ' Oh, 
 how can I thank you enough,' she replied; ' I did not 
 know I had such a friend.' ... I then particularly 
 inquired what her wish was, as if she still wished to 
 leave the convent there was no law to prevent her doing 
 80 • and I promised her immediate assistance if she was 
 confined against her will. ' No,' she said, ' I have no wish 
 to leave now. Since I came here I have been treated so 
 kindly it would be ingratitude in me to leave. The nuns 
 here have treated me like a sister. No. I cannot leave now. 
 Again she repeated—' No, I cannot, I must not leave now. 
 I embraced the convent life and took the veil at the early 
 age of eighteen, with the earnest desire of devoting my 
 best years to God, and serving Him in a way I then con- 
 sidered most for His glory, and I cannot now turn my 
 back upon Him.' I saw that her resolution was taken, 
 and that it was vain to attempt to shake it. It appeared 
 likewise to be a relief to her, as if she had now time to 
 arrano-e her thoughts, and she quietly said, 'What could 
 I do Ff I left ; all my relations and friends are Koman 
 Catholics, and they would turn their backs upon me, and 
 what do I know of life ? '" ^ 
 
 Now, this is a happy conclusion . This nun, who, according 
 to the description given in the affidavits, was, at the 
 period of her escape, emaciated, terror-stricken, who had 
 clambered over a wall and dropped nine or ten feet from 
 it, who had fled across the fields, been pursued, captured 
 and returned to the convent, is found here completely 
 changed in appearance, comfortable, and happy. But, 
 sir, this is not the whole of the case. It will naturally be 
 inquired why this nun should have escaped. And after 
 it was known that the protection of English law would be 
 extended to the inquiry by the authority of the Court of 
 Queen's Bench, facts came out of which I will now give 
 the House an indication. After the conversation with 
 this nun at Staplehill had proceeded to the point I have 
 mentioned, the person authorised by the judge to make 
 the inquiry says :— . , . , , , 
 
 " I then informed her of the many affidavits wnicli nad 
 been prepared with a view to obtaining a writ of Habeas 
 Corpus if I had been denied that meeting, which very 
 much astonished and amused her, and that very important 
 evidence bad been obtained respecting certain doings in 
 the convent at Colwich. I carefully marked the expression 
 of her face, which at once assumed a very thoughtful 
 
 aspect. I said, * Miss , it has been stated to us on 
 
 oath that there are certain subterraneous cells at the con- 
 vent called grottoes ; have you seen them ? ' She was 
 silent. I asked again, ' Do you remember a girl named
 
 20 
 
 ?' She thought for a moment, and then asked if she 
 
 was not a scholar in the convent school ; she thought she 
 had some recollection of her, bnt it was several years 
 since she was there. I then said that the late scholar had 
 stated that she had seen a nun pnt into a cellar under the 
 convent, and that she was found dead there; and, I asked, 
 have you any knowledge that such was the case?' She 
 remained silent. I say that silence was equivalent to an 
 admission, and asked again, ' Have you ever seen a nun 
 put into a cellar?' Again she Avas silent. I did not press 
 her further again on this point, as her resolute silence was 
 to all of us sufficient proof of the truthfulness of the 
 scholar's statement."' 
 
 That statement was, and it stands in the affidavits, that the 
 greatest severities were practised in that convent — that 
 she had seen nuns imprisoned — that she had known them 
 to be kept short of food — that she had seen one nun forced 
 down into this underground cell — that to the best of her 
 belief she never came out alive— that she attended the 
 service at her funeral, and saw her consigned to the grave 
 in the convent burying-ground. Now this evidence is cor- 
 roborated by a large part of the evidence given of the 27 
 witnesses who were examined upon the subject. It was 
 proved that there were more burials Avithin the precincts of 
 the convent than appeared in the register of deaths. It was 
 proved that coffins Avere seldom made outside the con- 
 vent, but that rough carpenters were employed Avithin the 
 establishment to make packing-cases, without any of the 
 usual appurtenances, in which the bodies were committed 
 to the graA^e. It is known that the most malignant threats 
 Avere used by i3ersons connected Avith the convent against 
 the production of the slightest evidence. It is a fact, that, 
 until Inspector Field came down, fcAV of the witnesses who 
 signed the affidavits could be induced to speak. I now 
 ask whether I have not stated enough to induce the House 
 to grant a committee to ascertain the character of these 
 establishments. The convent at Colwich, down to the 
 year 1857, Avas a cloistered convent of one of the severest 
 Orders. The convent of Wimborne seemed to be a happy 
 home ; but Avhat does that j^rove against the necessitj^ for 
 inquiry ? Nothing ; if there be other conA'ents which realise 
 and deserve Liguori's description, and are real "hells 
 upon earth " to unAvilling nuns ! Such are the facts I am 
 prepared to prove by the production of the affidavits. I 
 ask the House respectfully to grant this committee, for the 
 purpose of ascertaining the locality, the character, and the 
 increase of these establishments. I do not ask the House 
 to appoint this committee for the purpose of even suggest- 
 ing a remed}^ but in order to furnish the House with in- 
 formation Avhich might enable it in its Avisdom to devise 
 some means for the better protection of those who, in too 
 many cases, are, I fear, helpless Avomen. (Marked 
 cheering.) 
 
 After a debate of some length, Mr. Newdegate's amend- 
 ment was lost on a division — 79 members voting for it, 
 and 106 against it.
 
 m