WASHINGTON STATE FISHERIES BOARD HEARING APRIL 2 1921 SH 222 W2 W36 1921 no.1 UNIV. OF WASH. LIB.STATE FISHERIES BOARD Meeting Held at Seattle, Washington, April 2, 1921156631 INDEX Frank Berry , page 1 J. P. Todd, 2 M. S. Chase, tJ Mar tin Budinich, 4 Anthony Picinich, 4 3. B. Davis, 6 Anton Houlis, 7 Frank Twi tchell , 7 W. S. Graham, Ci Mr. Collaras, 10 Mr. l-otts, 10 S. R. Strong, 11 Geo. Steiner, 11 Mr. Houlett, 12 H. F. Alger, 15 John Gedick, 14 John Barker, 15 Llr. ^nutzen, 16 Oliver Wagner, 17 ^•1 • L • Jj e vy , 17 C. ilonaker, 16 Mr. Grasdahl, lb D. Covalaras, 19 Spiro Spencer, 20 Peter Males, 21 Mr. Sisminis, 22HZi RIUG HELD 3Y THR: STA'i 3 RI ’HERIES OARD OF "A -HIJCTOU In the State fisheries Building, Seattle, April 2, 1921. On the uestion of the Proposed Prohibiting or Curtailing the Taking of Immature Salmon in Pufcet Sound between Olympia and Clallam Bay. All members of the Board were present; also the State Director of fisheries & Game and the State Supervisor of Fisheries. Chairman E. S. Sims explained the purposes of the hearing and invited those present to be heard. F ..:a: BERRY, of Tacoma. (Formerly President of the Purse Seiners Union) Q. What is your business, Mr. Berry? A. I have been reoresenting the fishermen in the legislature - was purse seining last season - cannerman at present. You are acquainted with the purposes of this meeting? i^. Yes, sir. .uindly state your ideas on this subject. A. My idea is that the catching of young immature salmon should be done away with and -- That is conceded. The only thing this board is concerned with is what restrictions should be placed upon the taking of these salmon. hat do you think about it? A. My suggestion would be to limit the size of the mesh to permit the young salmon to escape regardless of class or gear. What size would you suggest? A. during April lbth to July first I would say not smaller than t inches and possibly 6-inch mesh; perhaps the best would be 6i. The Springs start about the first of May and 6-j§— inch mesh would hold fish of that size above six or seven pounds. What would be your idea of extending the present closed season for a longer period? A* Just as good to do that. How long would you suggest?A. That is not easy to soy - June li-th? Sat, int we are not going to interfere with the catching of any salmon that ought to be caught - in other words, should we extend the present closed season, so it would not interfere with catching other salmon? A. Hot later than the first of June, Q. Your idea then is that this period should be extended and during the period of taking Spring salmon the mesh should be enlarged to 6^ inches to allow these small fish to escape? A. In certain quarters; there are waters where there ore no immature salmon at all. J. P. TOLD, i?ish Broker, Colman Dock, Seattle. Q. Will you kindly state your ideas about this, Mr. Todd? A. I think the catching of these small salmon should be absolutely done away with, if it can be done. I think that Mr. Berry’s suggestion thst the season on Springs for traps or gear of any kind should be allowed to remain as it is and the mesh increased to 54 or 6 inches unti the Sockeye begin to run the middle of June or first of July - then put in inch mesh. Q. In your experience as a broker and in your ■ ast experience in the fishing business have you handled any of these small salmon? A. Uot very many. They are not sold through my agency. Q. Do you know of your own knowledge of the size and quantity of these fish taken? A. They have been brought in during the past three or four years in such quantities that it was practically impossible to sell them and they had to go to the freezer. The law has been repeatedly viola ted. Have you seen the fish in these boats and, if so, in what quantities? A. It would be hard to say - I have seen purse seiners coming in with say three or four tons. Q. What size? A. j.en, eleven, twelve inches long. I know the fish houses in townhave had such quantities of these fish th: t they were unable to handle them and for the last four or five years fish have been a drug on the market. What species were these fish? A. Large or cent Chum and Humpback and an occasional Silver. Q. When they are caught that small they spoil readily don’t they? A. Yes, sir; they spoil quickly. I,!. S. CHASE, of Whiz .Fish Co., Seattle. Q. Will you kindly tell us what your ideas are about this subject? A. My iasa about these trout is that it is wrong to take them, but I have handled a lot of them - perhaps as many as anyone in the State. We send a boat out and buy from these fellows; I was out the first day last year and brought in 5000 lbs. The Government launch passed me and asked how many I had aboard. I said I was ashamed to tell him but that I had about 5000 lbs. However, I believe in a square deal and these fellows have not figured on a closed season and have bought a lot of gear. My suggestion would be that they be allowed two months and then close fishing for this class of fish entirely . Hv-)w much in your opinion should we extend the season so as to allow the fishermen to use their gear but at the same time protect the fish as far as possible? A. -ell, just as you feel about that - if you give them say two months - from ^pril 15th to June Ibth - they could realize as much from their fishing as they would in five months after that simply because these fish run only between the lith of ^pril and 15th of June. Q. How does the size of the fish vary from April 15th to June 15th? A. They are greatly increased in size intil about the first of June. There is not much increase up to Way 1; th. How early have you bought these fish after the commencement of the season in the past? A. I believe they eo out fishing the night of the 15th and arethrough drifting about five o'clock in the morning. We get more fish early in the season. The men says it depends upon the moon; that they Let better fishing in a new moon. K. What size mesh do they use to start? A. L^-inch and later on 4-inch. MARTIN 3UDINICH - 1^07 5. W. - Seattle. Q. What is your business? A. Purse seining - fisherman. Q. Do you fish for these small fi3h? A. No, sir. Q. Will you state your ideas on this subject? A. Well, I think that Mr. Berry's statement is about right. Q. You agree with the general statement made b„ Mr. Berry? A. Yes, sir. ANTHONY PICINICH - Seattle. Q. What is your business? A. Fisherman - purse seiner, gill net. I. Do you understand the general object of this hearing0 A . Yes , sir, I do. Q. Kindly state your ideas on the subject. A. I think as Mr. Chase has stated and from what I have seen and heard that the majority of these men who have these appliances to fish for trout and have all their money invested in that business would have a total loss if kept from fishing this year. If they were allowed to fish for about sixty days and given time to save a little of the money it would be all right, and then close down for good. H. Perhaps I misunderstood Mr. Chase but my impression was that his statement was that the season or run of this salmon was from April lath to June lbth and that after June 15th there are no small salmon. A. Yes, sir; and they increase in size so they could not work that gear. m.. Then, if they were to be given sixty days it v.ould practicallycover the entire season. A. In a way, es. If they could increase the size of the mesh a little it would t ive them a tooa seuson from the beginning. One-fourth or one-eiLhth of an inch makes quite a difference. If they were to enlarge the mesh it would also give certain size fish a chance to get away. •Vhat size of gear net do you use - what length? A. From 500 feet - depending upon where we are fishing. Around Everett they fish with 15UO to 1900 feet. vi. What is the size of the mesh after you hang it on your lead line? A. That depends. The linen does not hardly stretch at all; the cotton extends instead of shrinking. Q. What percentage of new gear has been secured this year? Have you purchased any? A. ot much. I purchased 30me last year and will use it this year, but it would not be sufficient; I will need a little more. m,. How much does a gear net cost - the average size used? A. Somewhere about .'!,500.G0 for average gear net. Q. There have been reports that fishermen tie their gear nets together and cover more area than they are allowed to under the law. How about that? A. I have never seen it done and I have done quite a lot of trovel-int around at night; I have never yet seen that done. If the taking of these young salmon is permitted to continue what will be the result, in your opinion? 4. It would not be good to keep it up in future years. There should be some restrictions. v*. (By Mr. Blake) What would you think of this plan; Suppose this board decides to let you fish, provided you do not use over 500 feet in 1 ength ; would that have any effect? A. It would have this effect - it would help out the fish. The fishermen would not make enough to pay for gas and oil with 500 feet; they would get in a tide and it would tangle up.S. B. DAVIS i Ballard. ------------------------- Q. What is yo’r business? A. Troller on inside waters Q. How many lines? A. Four lines. How long have you been fishing? A. Three y ears . q . For these small fish? A. Ho . the last two seasons for small fish. q. How does this look to you? A. It looks to me as though it was one-sided. The purse seiners and gill netters are trying to hog the whole thing. Please understand, i»lr. Davis, everyone is at liberty to cone before this board and express his ideas and from what we hear the bofjrd will decide and we expect to make a fair and ,1ust decision, but we have no time to listen to any abuse of anyone else. If you have any tiling to say about what restrictions should be placed upon the taking of these young salmon we want to hear it; that is the point we have to decide. Do you think the present season should be extended for the tt king of these young salmon? A. In one way I do - perhaps make it about 20th or 26th of April. The season could be extended a few days. I have seen gill netters tie three nets together and drift it and one could not get by without being cau. ht in their nets. They string these nets across the mouths of streams. What stream, for inst-.nce? A. The channel of the Snohomish river at Everett. The lav/ permits you to bring in a certain size fish. What would be the larfcest mesh that would permit you to catch these fish which you are allowed to take and permit the smaller ones to get through? A. Four-inch would be the smallest mesh. 'j.hat would allow 12 or lc-inch trout through without killing them. m:. You think there should be restrictions upon purse seiners and - 6 -[till net ter8; how about trollers? A. None of us X ke fish under fifteen inches; if we catch smaller ones we turn them tack into the water, alive. ANTON HQULTS - 1711 W. Spokane Ave., Seattle 3. What is your business, i*r Houlis? A. Fisherman - for ten years. Last year operated a purse seine and [gill net. Q. Do you held a license in your own name? A. Yes, sir. Q. What are your ideas about this fishing? A. I aeree with LIr. Chase. I think the fishermen should be allowed to wear out their gear they have on hand. I spent obOO lost year and still owe $2-00. We just want time to use our equipment this season and then I am willing the fishing of this kind should be stopped entirely . 2* How long, in your opinion, should we extend this season so as to give those who have gear an opoortunity to use it? A. If the season were extended to May first I do not think there would be any complaints. Q. What size mesh do you use? A. I use and 4 inch. Starting May first I use 4-incn. How long does an ordinary net last - two or three years? A. Some last three years and some don't - about two seasons and a half. FRANK T ITCHELL - San Juan Fishing & Packing Co., Seattle q. Your firm is engaged in buying ^nd handling salmon, Mr. Twitchell? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you operate fishing appliances? A* Traps. k. Will you kindly state your ideas on this subject? A. I came to hear rather than to say anything. But it has been ap- parent to me for twenty-five years that some restrictions must be - 7 -placed on the catching of young salmon if we are to have any large oi.es. Many restrictions have boen attemoted but it is hard to follow the fishermen around and see that the restrictions are observed, ihe suggestion for a larger mesh v.ould undoubtedly help, and there should be 8 longer closed season. Where are these srv 11 fish mostly talcen from? A. From .Vhiaby Island in the early season. What is yoi.r experience at the present time as compared with the past as to the run of fish - the mature fish that come in the fall? A. Less - much less. Q. What do you attribute this to? A. Partly to civilization - breaking up of the natural spawning grounds, and the greater destruction of small salmon. Q. Have you anything further to add? A. Nothing except we have confidence in this board and believe you will arrive at a fair decision and be able to make an equitable arrangement of this matter. Many people have all their capital tied up in this equipment and I know you will be inclined to protect them. At the same time looking ahead ten or twBnty years, it is absolutely necessary that the small fish be protected also. hat is the best solution, in your opinion? If ^ou were in the board's position what would you do? A. I v.ould prolong the closed season as far as I could justly - anyway up to the first of May. Q. How much would that lessen the takin0 of unsalable fish? A. It would at least cut off 25$. Q. Do you get better fish the latter part of the season? A. They are better at the last of the season because they have grown more. In addition to the closed season v.hat would you suggest? A. I would increase the size of the mesh to not less than 4 inches. About what percentage of fish are not brought in - for instance, the gill netters do not bring in anything under la inches; have you - 6 -[any ide how much is wasted? A. Only from heor-suy from our Louts. *hey claim from IL-i-O to Hip are wasted becuase they do not dure bring them in. Yii.at is the largest quantity you hove seen brought in by one tout? A. I have seen one bout bring in two or three tons. What is the average? A. 1200 to 15C0 lbs. up to a ton. Q. How often? A. About every three days - about two nights’ fishing. You have traps in Useless Boy; do you catch fish there? A. We do . q. Wha t would you suggest should be the size of the web? A. In the leads they are usually 2x6- heads and pots H x 4. They should not be less than 4-inch square mesh. Q. How many do you get in that trap? A. Three hundred - 400 - 500 for o few lifts early in the spring. After that scarcely any. Q. What per cent ore small fish? A. Hardly any- too easy to get out. .. S. GRAHA. ’ - Seattle - President Purse Seiners Union. 7/hat is your business, i«ir. Graham? A. Fisherman - purse seine. As a rule I do not operate myself. us Will you please state to/your ideas on this subject. A. My idea would be to increase the mesh and close the rivers to f i sh ing . What rivers have you in mind? A. Snohomish and Skagit - they are better than any hatchery you have. iVhat size mesh do you suggest? A. iiot less than four inches. What do you think about extending the present closed season? A. I should judge the extension should be made until about first of - 9 -pa; , ‘.nu next °.oqb se to trout fishing entirely, but the fish- pnnen should be ea to wear out what Le?jr the. ve on hind at this time. rhen if it v.es net fc tr.e question of the fishermen ha Ting goar on hand you would favor closing dorm at once? A. Entirely. ---- Collaras, l^lSj - First Avenue. Seattle. q. What is yo r business, Mr. Collaras? A. I am a fisherman - operate gill net. Q. Own the license in your own name? A. Yes, sir. What is yui r ide-i about taking these young salmon? A. My idea is that we should not fish for trout at all but we want a little time to wear cut our nets we have on hana. We havo been to a lot of expense and cannot afford to lose what we have on hand. What restrictions should be placed on fishing this year to tive you men a chance and yet protect the fish as far as possible? A. Close it entirely but this year we want a chance to wear out our gear. How much hear have you on hand? A. About 500 feet of inch. %R. POTTS of the Marine Supply Co., Seattle. Tell us what you think about this, Mr. Potts. A. I believe this thing should not be disturbed this present year, liot only to give the fishermen a chance to use their gear but the mere).ants who have anticipated this year’s fishing want a chance to sell their goods. We have taken many orders and if they are not allowed to fish we will suff a less. Do you sell this size mesh for other fish? A. Uo. This is linen net. What do you think about closing this kind of fishing? - 10 -A. I tv i!ik fishing for these small fish should be discontinued after this year. But for this ye or you think it should bo allowed to continue? A. Yes; I know these fishermen are hard up and vt is customary in changing any law correcting an aouse that tne .eople interested in that particular line of ousiness are given somotime to clear. ••hat do you suggest? A. It seems to me it would not be unfair to give them two months fish in* beginning in April. I v.as thinking while this discussion has been ,oint on that perhaps if iou could open the sesson the fir31 of Uay anc let them use their pres< it . ei ■ , it would le fair. It seems to me that if ^ou would increase the size of the mesh right off the bat it would not give them the relief they tire talking about. .Vhereas, if you open the season May first they would havo an opportunity to use their present gear. It seoms to me you should be as lenient in that regerd as yon can and still do vhat is yoir duty in regard to preserving the fisheries. I was surprised to find such a spirit of fairness among these fishermen; they are much fairer than I had been led to believe they were. in view ol that fine spirit, it seems to me they ought to be met with a spiiit of fairness and • still attain the object we all want of building up the fisheries. :~R. ’LETT- Glendale. 1 ou are a fisherman, ^r. -toulett? A. I am - I fish at Possession Point - with nook and line. How long would you say the uresent season sho la be extended? A. far as that goes the season is all richt now -- *Vhat we are trying to find out is what restrictions shoula be put upon the season starting April 11th? A. 1 think all rivers should be closed. Would you extend the present closed season0 A. ell, I might to about May first. a• hat do you think about the present mesh used? - 12 -A. I think the purse seiners destroy more fish than all others put together -- Q. Would you change the size of the mesh? A. Believe I would. How about length ana depth? A. I think the net should be shortened. You agree that if provision is not made to protect theee young salmon ultimately there will bo no salmon? I think that in the course of time there will be no salmon anyway. Q. How do you arrange to catch only 15-inch fish? A. We put back in the water the ones that are smaller unless they bleed; if they bleed we take them home and eat them. I did not catch $400 worth of fish last year and many did not catch $100 worth, and if this fishing is stopped trollers cannot make any tiling. H. F. ALGER * Glendale Q. What is your business, Mr. Alger? A. Fishing principally. Last year I was with my father, who is a fish buyer? Q. Then, you are a fish buyer. You understand the objects of this hearing, do you? A. I think I do, y es. h,. What do you think about extending the present closed season? A. I think it would work a hardship upon a lot of oeople. In what way? A. Well, lots of them have bought homes and bought paraphernalis with expectations of making a living at fishing and if the season is shortened they can’t do it. The average fisherman up our way does not average over $200.00 and that is their livelihood. Q. Don't you think then it would be a Godsend to them to put an end to this fishing and put them to work at something else? A. I don’t know about that. This is work old men can do who can do nothing else; and then there are crippled men who have put their money into this and depend upon it for a living, and it would be aninf or tana te thing to cut them off. Q. Do you believe these immature salmon ought to be caught? A. Hot under 15 inches. Q. How would, you remedy it? A. When a troller gets a fish under lb inches he puts it back in the vater# Q. The information we are getting from you is based upon your exper- iences as a troller? A. Yes, sir. q. We cannot say to the troller "you may fish" and to the purse seiners and gill netters "you may not.” What would you recommend? A. I think larger mesh would be a good remedy. Q. How large? A. I do not know - don't know how large the mesh runs. Q. Would you advise shortening the season? A. I think that would be all right. JOHN OEDICK - Seattle Q. What is your business, Mr. Gedick? A. Fisherman. v,. What appliances do you operate? A. Crab this year so far; last year I had purse seine and gill net. This year I am goin^ to take out a gill net. Q. Do you carry the licenses in yoi r own name? A. Yes, sir. Q. What do you think about this present situation? A. I think moro fish ought to be protected with any gear but as it is now we have hundreds of dollars of ge< r on hand and we would be very ^lad to have a little use of it. Q. How much gear have you? A. I have "'boG worth of gear - b-J- arid 4-inch mesh. I use two nets. Q. What do you use in your boat? A. It starts out with Z-h until middle of May and then start in with 4-inch mesh - same mesh all over the net. - 14-Q. Do you use a power boat? A. I use a power boat, yes. Do you do any beach seining? A. Ho, sir. v. xour idea is then that if there were no men who had gear you would do away with fishing entirely but since you ana other men have equipment you think they ought to have a chance to use it? Is that it? A. I think this year we should have a chance, and then close it up to everyone. What about these fish under 15 inches? A. If alive we throw thorn overboard but if hurt we take them home to the family. I am telling the truth about that - they all do it. How many small fish do you get in one haul? A. I never get more than ton in one haul - say out of about 200. JOHN BARKER, Seattle. Q. What is your business, Mr. Barker? A. Fishing. What appliances do you operate? A. Fish with gill net, purse seine, trolling - each and every kind. Q. Lo you use a power boat? A. Yes. Are you president oi the Gill betters’ Union now, Mr. Barker? A. Ho, not now. What do you think about shortening the season which opens April 15? A. As regards fishing at Vest Beach, 3an Juan Island and Lopez,- the only way to protect the fish is to enlarge the mesh. e have inch mesh and that will catch anything from a 12-inch fish up. This mesh should be enlarged so fish may have a chance to par-s through. These fish run in April, May, June and July. I believe Spring salmon which have reached 40 pounds coi.ld be caught in a 7-inch mesh. I recommend 7-inch mesh for Spring salmon along San Juan and West Beach. Q. Would you allow everybody to go ahead and fish from April 15th but not use more than 7-inch mesh? - 15 -A. I believe restrictions should be made so the little fish can get away . Q. What is the smallest mesh you would allow on Puget Sound? A. I would not allow any smaller than 4-jjr inch; the t would catch Humpbacks . £. What do you think about extending the season from April li th? A. I do not see how you could do that all over the Sound. Q. On April lLth the waters of Tuget Sound are open for small sal- mon fishing and we think they ought to be protected and want to decide what is best to do. What do you suggest? A. I would say let the present law continue and let the men wear out their 6e; r and then after January, 192E prohibit anything less than 7-inch mesh until July 15th and regulate the mesh according to the run. I Some think the season should be extended to May first without doing any particular harm to the fishermen and yet give some protection to the fish; how about that? A. That is not a bad idea. Q. Do you b.lieve in restricting gear to 500 feet? A. When you restrict net to 500 feet you put the men out of business. They would net operate with 500 feet. hen you let out a gill net there is nothing to hold it straight. l-Q. How do they fish with 500 feet? A. They take out a purse seine license and use a purse net similar to a purse seine. Q. Then, as I understand you, you think that after this yea the m sh should be increased to 7 inches, with gear according to the salmon running - and that this season should be extended to May first. Have I got you right? A. Yes, sir. MR. iCUUTZEfl, Glendale. Q. What is yoi r business? A. Trolling. - 16 -Q. How many lines? A. Six and eight lines Q. Do you use a power boat? A. Yes, sir. What do you think about extending the season from April 11th? A. It would probably work a hardship on the trollers at the Island for the reason that the first four weeks are the most profitable weeks of the season. There is no question that there ought to be a closed season and the young fish protected, but if you should make a rule like that at this time it would work considerable hardship. You think the gear should be left alone and the season left alone this year? A. Yes, sir. OLIVER WAOIJER, Saratoga Q. What is your business, *ir. Wagner? A. Fishing - mostly trolling. Last year I was a buyer for the San Juan Fishing i. Packing Co. * What do you think about this situation? A. I think there should be a special law for hook and line fishermen. Q, What should this board do to protect the small salmon that can be caught April 11th; that is what we are trying to get at. A. The only thing I say is to make a bigger mesh - not less than 4-inches - but I believe the troller should have a special law for they only catch one kind of fish. Q. What would you do so far as Puget Sound and other places are concerned this year? A. I would give them a chance. Every body expected the law to be the same and did not figure ahead and I think it should be left alone for another season. vVhat a O’, t extending the seas n? A. I would not extend the season. L. LEVY, Possession Point. Q. -hat is your business, wr. Levy? A. I am a fisherman, sir. - 17 - J 3 , > > } i > , ) 0 > ) ) > > ) > > ’ 3 3} , 3 > > 0 } ’ * 3 \ 4 *\ < > ) j ) > > > } 3 \ ’ 3 ) ) ) ' > Q. Do you believe the’sb young saltflon should be caught? A. I don't know. Q. If you iid not have the gear would you think they ought to be caught? A. U o . Do you use any other net than 2^'? A. I have some 4 inch -- about 100 feet. Q. Do you fish for other fish? A. Of course; fish for everything. SPIRO SPENCER - Seattle Q. What ap iliance do you operate, Mr. Spencer? A. I operate gill net and fish for all kinds of fish v/i th mesh from rcj? to 6 inches. Q. How long have you been fishing? A. Been on the Sound twelve years. Q. Do you realize that if these small salmon are not protected that pretty soon there will bo no larfce salmon? A. At this time large salmon are not worth anytfching. - 20 -4. as I understand your position, you believe tee fisher en should be given a chance this year to use the ge:.r they have; in other words, you want a chance to use the 3-J- and 4 inch mesh you hove on hand. A. If you change the season the mesh is no good after the 15th of May . Suppose we started the season May first? A. Fifteen days before or after makes no difference - the Zi mesh is too small for fish after May 15th. PETER MALES - lbth So., Seattle q. zou are a fisherman, are you? A. Yes, sir; use a gill net. Q. Do you hold the license in your own name? A. Yes, sir. ■a. What nationality are you? A. Greek. 'm,. Are you an American citizen? A. I have taken out my first papers and this year will take out my second. I have been in this country four years. I took out my first papers the first year I came here. Q. You say you have a gill net - what size mesh? A. 5-g and some 4 inch. Q. What is the mesh for your gill net? A. Six inch. iou do not fish for 3m?. 11 salmon with gill net? • A. I use regular -purse seine. What do you think about extending the closed season so as to give these fish a longer chance? A. The fishermen are just making a living an it is. Q. Why don't they make more money? Did you make more money fishing two years ago? A« Ko, sir; same thing. So you think we should leave the thing just as it is and allow - 21 -your bcar and everyone olse^ gear to start April 15th? A. April 15th is different from l.iay 15th and mesh won't work after May 15th. MR. SI3MINIS - Seattle Q. What is your business? A. fish buyer for the Puget Sound Fish & Oyster Co. Q. What did you do last year? A. I was in Alaska. Q. How long you been in this country? A. Twelve years. Q. Ever had a license from the state to fish? A. Tes, sir. This year we want to wear out our old gear and then the year after or any time we are willing to accept any closed season. Right now the fishermen have the gear and want this season stme as before. Q. Do you buy these small fish? A. From 15 inches up. Q. Where do you buy? A. Mukilteo, Whidby Island and Saratoga; do not go to Hood Canal and San Juan. Q. Tour ideo is that the men you buy from do not care what hap ens after this year? A. That is it, yes, sir. Q. What do you think about extending the season to May 15th this year? A. This inch mesh is no good after May 15th or May first. Q. About half the season they use 3-J- and the balance 4 and 4j>? A. The first 15 or £0 days they use and keep that up until the 15th or 20th of June. - 22 -SH222.W2 W36 1921 no.l Fish-Ocean Stacks