YALE UNIVERSITY
LIBRARY

LOED MELBOUENE

P]UNTED Br
SPO'frlSWOODE AND CO., NHW-STJIKET SQUARE
LONDON

cy

LORD MELBOUENE'S

PAPERS

EDITED BY LLOYD C. SANDERS

WITH A PEEFACE
BY
THE EAEL COWPER, K.G.

LONDON
LONGMANS, GEEEN, AND CO.
AND NEW YOEK: 15 EAST 16"' STEEET
1889
All riahls reserved

1i

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PEEFACE

I HAVE BEEN ASKED to Write a Preface to this volume,
partly in order to make known that the letters con
tained in it have been selected with my sanction and
approval from those in my possession, and partly in
hopes that my relationship to Lord Melbourne and my
early recollections of him may enable me to throw some,
light upon his personality. I wish with all my heart
that the last reason was as good as the first ; but I fear
that the task of drawing his character is above my
capacity, and that my relationship and the early re
collections which are its consequence are in my way
rather than otherwise in making the attempt.
I can only myself remember him when I was a
boy, and after he had been attacked by his first para
lytic stroke, and I have visions of a somewhat massive
though not corpulent figure reclining in an arm-chair,
a white or nearly white head, shaggy eyebrows, and a
singularly keen and kindly eye, fits of silence occa
sionally broken by an incisive and rather paradoxical
remark, accompanied by a genial laugh and a rubbing
of the liands together. I remember also noticing how
easily the tears came into his eyes, not so much, as I
have heard it said, at anything tender or afLcLing, as at
the expression of a noble or generous sentiment.

vi LOUD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS-
These glimpses, which I can myself recall, are, as I
have said, rather in my way than otherwise in drawing
his character. The image which I wish to form of the
experienced and sagacious statesman in the full ma
turity of his powers is continually blurred by my re
membrance of the shattered invalid. There was, of
course, in those days very little left of that exuberant
vitality which has been noted as one of his most marked
characteristics. This peculiar gift, this exuberant vitality, this ' rude,
handsome manliness,' as it has been called, is to be
taken as the leading trait of his character before his
illness, but it must be taken in conjunction with
other things. It was tempered by a vein of thought-
fulness, a touch of melancholy, as much concealed as it
was in the nature of a very open, unaffected man to con
ceal anything. With all his genial, almost boisterous
heartiness upon occasions, he was in reality a sensitive
man, and every sensitive man must in self-defence very
often wear a mask. His mask was an assumption of
reckless indifference. This has been made the subject
of a famous satire by Sydney Smith — a satire so skil
fully drawn, so exquisitely witty, and at the same time
so good-humoured, that its extreme caricature is at first
sight hardly visible, and it has actually been put down
in grave histories as a portrait. It is such good read
ing, and bears such strong testimony to Lord Melbourne's
conscientiousness and hard work, that I hope the reader
will turn to it ; but let him remember that it is a carica
ture, not a portrait. It is to be found in the second
letter to Archdeacon Singleton.
The sting of this satire — and a sting was of course

PREFACE VU
intended — lies in the implied charge of conscious affec
tation, a foible altogether inconsistent with the trans
parent simplicity of Lord Melbourne's character. That
his devil-may-care manner often disguised both his
extensive knowledge of the matter in hand and his
deep anxiety to find the- right course, is quite true.
But how difficult it is to analyse manner and to trace
the source from which it springs ! Education, circum
stances, natural disposition, all conspire to form it.
There is hardly a man possessed of originality of
thought, and that delicacy of feeling which often ac
companies it, who does not take refuge behind a veil of
some sort. Most frequently the disguise assumes the
form of a cold and distant reserve ; but Lord Mel
bourne's nature was too genial, his spirits were too
high, his love of life was too great, for this. He
shrouded himself under an exterior of jovial indif
ference, and at the same time this jovial indifference
was not always a shroud, for he was really indifferent
about small things. His frequent apparent conceal
ment of the extent of his knowledge of the matter in
hand came, I think, partly from horror of the opposite
affectation of greater knowledge than exists, and partly
from the fact that his knowledge was often rather
that of general principles than of details. While I am
anxious to refute the charge of affectation, I admit
with gratitude that Sydney Smith has done his friend's
memory a good service by pointing out that the poco
curante manner, the apparently light tone in which he
often treated serious subjects, concealed a strenuous
application to business, and a deep and genuine anxiety
to do his duty to the best of his abihty. That he felt

viii LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
most keenly the heavy weight of labour and responsi
bility which attended his position is, to my mind,
proved only too clearly by the paralytic stroke which
made its appearance, as is so often the case in similar
circumstances, just as the strain began to be relaxed.
One of Lord Melbourne's characteristics, which I
must not pass over, was his insatiable love of reading,
and the vast store of knowledge which he had collected.
His life was particularly fortunate in enabling him to
do this. His sound classical education and close ac
quaintance with the ancients he possessed in common
with most of the eminent men of his generation. But
men who rise to eminence have in general, after they
attain manhood, very little time even to keep up what
they have already acquired, much less to read deeply
in new directions. Lord Melbourne did not enter upon
any real or absorbing business till he was nearly fifty
years old, and though he undoubtedly suffered in some
respects from want of those habits of method and punc-
tuahty which early apprenticeship to business can alone
give, he was enabled by the same cause to coUect to
gether an almost unprecedented amount of learning on
almost every subject. The same circumstances, the
fact of his having been for many years what is com
monly called a man of leisure, gave him the practice
and the power of continually drawing upon his vast
stores for the entertainment of others in the simplest and
most natural manner. He was a man saturated with
information, which was continually bubbling over in an
original and sometimes fantastic form.
Mr. Torrens's Life, possibly in an abridged edition,
with the extraneous matter omitted, will probably be

PREFACE IX
the standard biography of Lord Melbourne, and as far
as the main facts are concerned, and the solid qualities
of his mind and his high character, there is not much
to be added or desired ; but the whole personality of
the man, the eccentricity and the brilliancy and the
warmth, have disappeared.
Hayward's essays represent something of the wit
and the originality, the unstudied careless grace ; but
the nobihty of nature, and the genuine conscientious
ness, which underlay the superficial indolence and reck
lessness, have been very much left out.
There are some striking lines in the first Lord
Lytton's poem, 'St. Stephen's;' but the best descrip
tion of Lord Melbourne is to be gathered from the
' Greville Memoirs.' It would be very unfair in regard
to him or anybody else to isolate particular passages
of an author whose chief charm and chief merit arise
from the spontaneity of his writing. Every impression
of the moment, from the highest admiration down to a
feeling bordering upon contempt, is recorded and left
unaltered, however inconsistent with previous or
subsequent passages in the same book. In Part II.
Yol. ni. p. 241, there is a very able and elaborate
character, one of the best that Greville ever drew —
and how admirable his characters are ! He wishes to be
impartial and discriminating, and I think he has suc
ceeded as far as success was possible. It is after reading
this that I can most nearly picture Lord Melbourne to
myself. Where he a little fails, in my opinion, is in his
reference to his unhappy married life. There was more
tenderness and more real manliness exhibited in con
nection with that painful and unpleasing story than is

X LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to be gathered from this passing allusion. As to the
political career, too, we must remember that Greville,
though he lived very much with the Whigs, was in
his principles a Tory of the old type ; while Lord Mel
bourne, though he was almost too acutely able to see
both sides of every question, was fundamentally and
in all essentials a genuine though moderate Liberal,
brought up from his earliest youth under the influence
of Charles James Fox. We can understand, therefore,
that when during his official career the position wlfich
he had so long taken up was suddenly assailed on a
new side, from the Eadical, not the Conservative direc
tion, he may have shown a certain amount of hesita
tion which to one who was indiscriminately opposed to
all Eeform and all Liberalism was difficult to under
stand. The views with regard to Parhamentary Eeform
which Lord Melbourne consistently adopted were that
it was desirable on the whole to leave the matter alone,
but that if anything was done at aU, it should be
done thoroughly. It seems strange, therefore, that he
should even for one moment have allowed himself to be
entangled with the Waverers, and their wretched attempt
to snatch back with one hand little handfuls of what
was being offered to the people with the other. If they
had had their way, they would have saved nothing of
any real advantage to anybody, while they would
altogether have spoilt the moral effect of the measure
by creating an impression that what was yielded . was
yielded entirely under the influence of fear, and only in
as small a quantity as possible. It could only have
been from his love of listening to arguments on every

PREFACE XI
side of every question that he was led into correspond
ing with them at all.
Another matter in connection with which Charles
Greville accuses him of vacillation is the Syrian ques
tion in 1840. It was Lord Palmerston, and not he, who
originated the hazardous but successful pohcy pur
sued on this occasion. An able Foreign Secretary
can always, in matters of this kind, commit a Govern
ment too deeply to allow of a retreat. Lord Melbourne
felt a certain amount of anxiety, and may have shown
it indiscreetly ; but it was evidently exaggerated by
Greville, who derived all his information from what
he calls the Peace Party, and whose information
was manifestly distorted. Lord Melbourne may also
have shown a too intense desire to conciliate all parties.
But there is nothing in the letters here published to
confirm the charge of vacillation. He consistently sup
ported Lord Palmerston, and held fast to the convic
tion that, though to yield to France might remove
existing difficulties, to show any fear of her would
inevitably produce war at a future period.
The too intense desire, which I have mentioned, to
conciliate all parties in his rickety Government and
at aU hazards to keep it together has always been con
sidered a blot upon the last two years of his admi
nistration, and the task it involved must have been a
sore trial to his high spirit. But he evidently decided
that under the circumstances his first duty was to the
Queen, and that to allow his Government to collapse
while he still had a majority, however small, in the
House of Commons, and while the feehng in the
country was still an unknown quantity, would place

xii LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
a young and inexperienced Sovereign in an unfair posi
tion. Is it clear that his decision was wrong ?
There are, as I have said, enough materials already
in print to enable the reading public to form a fair
notion of Lord Melbourne's character and career. But
the matter contained in this volume is almost all of
it new, and a great deal of it very interesting.
The letters from Glasgow at the beginning are to
my mind disappointing, and it would have required at
the time a good judge of character to predict from
their perusal the future eminence of the writer. There
is a self-sufficiency and priggishness in the youth who
wrote them difficult to reconcile with the man as he
presented himself in after life. It was Lord Melbourne,
not Sydney Smith, who said, ' I wish I was as cock
sure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything ' ;
but we see now that he had had his own period of
cock-sureness like most other people. They show,
however, an active and inquiring mind, and a keen
interest in politics, and they throw a light upon his
pursuits and friendships which justifies their publica
tion. More interesting than these boyish efiusions is the
journal of Lord Melbourne's early Parliamentary life,
and more interesting stiH the letters to his colleagues
while he was in oflSce. But they are comparatively few
in number, as I shall explain by-and-by, and I confess
that, judging from the traditions of his conversation,. I
was disappointed when I first read them at their not
being more briUiant. But it must be remembered that
they were written simply and solely with a view to the
purpose in hand. The entire absence of display and

PREFACE XlU
the utter unconsciousness of a future reader are in
themselves a considerable merit ; and though these
letters are unequal, and not always written with facility,
they seem to me occasionally to evince a peculiar
directness and originahty which, on hterary considera
tions alone, would entitle them to respectful attention.
Anyone who has formed an impression of the writer's
turn of mind from other sources will, I think, discern
in them a tendency kept under restraint, but constantly
escaping from it, to connect the matter in question with
some general principle. I fancy I can see signs here
and there of a secret temptation to indulge in startling
paradox and copious illustration. But it was steadily
resisted, and it is as a testimony to his strong sound
sense and painstaking attention to business that they
are chiefly valuable.
The Home Office must in his day have been a most
laborious office, for in addition to the heavy work
which it entails now it comprised then the general
direction of Irish administration, and both England and
Ireland were in a very disturbed and excited condition.
The correspondence of this period is chiefly connected
with the preservation of law and order.
As Prime Minister, Lord Melbourne's actions are
of course suggestive of so much comment that if I
yielded to my inclination I should enlarge my Preface
to an outrageous extent. In addition to points which I
have already incidentally touched upon, I will only
allude to the charge brought against him by Miss
Martineau, in one of her most unfair chapters, of neg
lecting to defend Lord Durham's Canadian conduct
when challenged in the House of Lords.

xiv LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Whether Lord Melbourne had been altogether
cowed by Lord Brougham, as alleged by Miss Marti
neau, may be decided by glancing at the debates of the
period. It is true that he did not always answer him,
and on one occasion the Leader of the House of
Commons remonstrated with him on the subject, when
he replied, ' The fact is, my dear John, the fellow was
in such a state of excitement that if I had said a word
to him he would have gone stark staring mad.' This
I heard from Lord Eussell himself. I admit that he
might have answered him more constantly than he did.
I admit \ also, and it would be absurd to deny, that
Lord Brougham was much the better speaker of the
two, but it is against all evidence to say that Lord
Melbourne ever showed himself in the smallest degree
afraid of him.
But, to return to Lord Durham, Lord Melbourne, it
will be seen, never made any secret of his dislike and
distrust of him. He was bitterly annoyed at his
appointment of Mr. Turton, which he was evidently
not prepared for, though Miss Martineau says he was.
But the letters in this volume show clearly that after
the quarrel had begun he was much more inclined to
be conciliatory to Lord Durham than many of his
colleagues. If he failed on any occasion in his attempt
to back him up in the House of Lords, the attempt was
honestly made, and I see no reason to doubt his own
explanation that he was deliberately and persistently
left without materials for the purpose.
It has been said with truth that the great question
about Lord Melbourne's fife, as to which our pubhc has
not yet made up its mind, is what part he really took

PREFACE XV
in the administration of his own Government. Every-
body allows his personal charm, his knowledge, his
originality of mind, and his upright and honourable
character. But did he really govern the country, or
was he a mere figure-head — or, rather, what inter
mediate position did he fill between the two ?
There are few things so difficult to determine as the
exact place which a Prime Minister fills among his
colleagues. The Duke of Welhngton, we know, did
everything himself, and his Government very soon
collapsed in consequence. Pitt and Palmerston are
commonly supposed to have been very autocratic ;
though there is little doubt that the first leant very
much upon Dundas ; and one of Lord Palmerston 's
colleagues has told me that his power in his Cabinet
has been much exaggerated out of doors. It is very
possible, on the other hand, that Lord Liverpool and
Lord Aberdeen may have exercised more controlling
force than is generally imagined. I, of course, avoid
all allusion to living people.
A false estimate of predominant influence behind
the scenes may be raised, sometimes by Parliamentary
position, and sometimes by self-assertion. Lord Mel
bourne had no self-assertion. As long as the work was
done, he cared very little who had the credit of it. As
to Parliamentary position, though his speeches were
generally racy and vigorous, I do not know that his
abilities were of the kind to enable him to gain it, and
his being in the House of Lords put it altogether out of
the question. In these days the want of Parliamentary
position incident to a seat in the House of Lords is
very much made up for by the copious practice of

xvi LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
making speeches throughout the country ; but in Lord
Melbourne's time such a thing was almost unknown.
We are driven, therefore, to form our notion of
his weight in the Cabinet almost entirely from his cor
respondence ; and here, again, he is unfortunate. He
was not a methodical man. He burnt many of the
letters addressed to him, and he very seldom kept a
copy of his own. The materials, therefore, which have
been collected in the present book are very imperfect. '
They must be considered as a smaU sample, accidentally
preserved, of what would have been a very voluminous
collection. But, imperfect as they are, they throw con
siderable light upon his real position, and, as I venture
to suggest, not by any means to his disadvantage.
T have been asked to acknowledge with thanks, on
behalf of the Editor, letters lent for pubhcation by the
Hon. Mrs. Trotter, Miss Jane Whately, and Mr. Hugh
Hammersley, and to express his obligations to Lord
Bessborough, and Lord Stanley of Alderley, who have
had search made among their papers, though, un
fortunately, without success. I must be allowed also
on my own initiative to call the reader's attention to
the generous self-effacement of the Editor in confining
his own work to such connecting and explanatory
remarks as were absolutely necessary, and to the clear,
concise, and admirable manner in which he has per
formed his task. COWPEK.

CONTENTS

CHAPTER PAGE
1. YOUTH : 1779-1805  1
II. FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT : 1805-1812 . . . . 32
III. MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE ; 1805-18^8 . . .71
IV. WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITB : 1816-1830 . . . 94'
V. AT THE HOME OFFICE : 1830-1834 . . . . .120
VI. IRISH AFFAIRS : 1830-1834  166
VII. THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION : JULY-NOVEMBER
1834  203
VIII. IN OPPOSITION : DECEMBER 1834-APRIL 18 5 . . . 232
IX. HOME AFFAIRS ; 1835-1837  266
X. FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS; 1835-1837 . . . 333
XI. HOME AFFAIRS : 1837-1841  3li5
XII. CANADA : 1837-1841  423
XIII. FOREIGN AFFAIRS: 1837-1841  451
XIV. PATRONAGE : 183.5-1841 .... .495
XV. LAST YEARS : 1841-1848  512

THE PAPERS

OF

LOED MELBOUENE

CHAPTEE I
YOUTH
1779-1805
The ancestors of Lord Melbourne, at the beginning of the
eighteenth century, pursued the professional vs^alks of life. We
find that a Mr. Matthew Lambe was then a practitioner, or
attorney, of long standing at Southwell, and the legal adviser
of the Cokes of Melbourne Hall, an old family, one of whose
members, Sir John Coke, was Secretary of State during the
early part of the reign of Charles I.' Matthew Lambe died on
January 29, 1735, leaving a fortune of 100,000^. to his two
sons, Robert and Matthew, in order of succession. Already the
death in the previous year of an uncle named Peniston, who had
been a highly successful ' pleader under the bar,' and who died
a bachelor, had placed Robert Lamb in a position of affluence.
He entered the Church, and by a rapid course of preferment
became Dean, and eventually Bishop of Peterborough. As
he, too, died unmarried, his wealth passed to the son of his
brother Matthew.
' Two interesting volumes of abstracts made from the MSS. at
Melbourne Hall, by Mr. William Dashwood Fane, were published by the
Historical Manuscripts Commission in 1888. They cover the period from
1551 to 1702. B

2 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
This Matthew must have been a man of more than ordinary
ability. He embraced his uncle's profession, and rapidly ex
tended his business, becoming perpetual Solicitor to the Revenue
of the Post Office, and the confidential adviser of Lord Salisbury
and Lord Egmont. Equally fortunate in love, he won, in 1740,
the hand of Miss Charlotte Coke, who, on the unexpected death
of her brother some seven years afterwards, inherited the family
estates, including Melbourne Hall. To these considerable pos
sessions Matthew Lamb added Brocket Hall, by purchase from
the representatives of Sir Thomas Winnington, in 1746. His
life, in fact, was one course of steady prosperity ; he was already
a member of Parliament, sitting for Stockbridge, and afterwards
for Peterborough, and in 1755 he was created a baronet. He
died in 1768, leaving to his only son, Peniston, property estimated
at nearly half a million, besides half a million in ready money
which the latter squandered aimlessly. •
At the time of his father's death Sir Peniston Lamb was in
his twenty-fourth year. Of an easy disposition, and without
any marked abilities, he was ill-qualified to push the fortunes of
the family through his own exertions. But he had the good
luck and good taste to marry Elizabeth, the only daughter of
Sir Ralph Milbanke, one of the most gifted and fascinating
women of her time.^ In the year after his marriage Sir
Peniston, who in the House of Commons was a silent follower
of Lord North, was created an Irish Baron by the title of Baron
Melbourne of Kilraore, and an Irish Viscount in 1781. On
the formation of the Household of the Prince of Wales he was
named Gentleman of the Bed Chamber; and created an English
Peer in 1815. There cannot be much doubt that he owed his
social advancement to the influence of his wife, concerning
' Some of these details are taken from a paper by Mr. Richard Sprye,
an antiquarian who was commissioned by Lord Melbourne to make
researches into the past history of the Lambs.
^ Six children were the issue of the marriage : Peniston, born in 1770,
who died unmarried in 1805 ; William, born in 1779 ; Frederick, born in
1782, who entered the diplomatic service and became Baron Beanvale,
succeeding to Lord Melbourne's title after his death ; George, born in
1784, who at the time of his death in 1834 was Under-Secretary of State
for the Home Department ; Emily Mai-y, born in 1787, who became, first.
Lady Cowper, and, secondly. Lady Palmerston ; and Harriet Anne, born
in 1789, who died unmarried in 1803.

YOUTH .3
whose abilities the verdict of her contemporaries is nearly unani
mous. Horace Walpole, indeed, sneers at her after his wont,
when he represents her as standing before the fire at Mrs.
Meynel's, and adjusting her feathers in the glass. ' Says she,
" "'""'"'^ ' ,*^®y ^^y ^^^ Stocks will blow up : that will be very
comical ! " ' ' But the remark may perhaps be interpreted as a
satire on the jargon of the Stock Exchange ; and even if Horace
Walpole disliked her, he was certainly in a minority. Byron
was only echoing the opinion of society when he described her
in his Diary, under the date November 24, 1813, as ' The best
friend I ever had in my life, and the cleverest of wopien. I
write with most pleasure to her, and her answers are so sen
sible, so tadique. I never met with half her talent.' ^ Her son's
verdict was, perhaps, more partial, but it was the same : ' Ah,
my mother was a most remarkable woman; not merely clever
and engaging, but the most sagacious woman I ever knew. She
kept me right as long as she lived.' ^
William Lamb, who was born on March 15, 1779, was his
mother's favourite child. She early recognised his abilities, and
set herself to form his character, cautioning him especially
against the acquirement of selfish habits.* His boyhood was
passed, for the most part, at Brocket, partly also, no doubt, at
Melboarne House, Piccadilly — now the Albany — which had
been purchased from Lord Holland, the father of Charles James
Fox, in 1770, and which soon became an important social and
political centre, among its visitors being the Prince of Wales,
Charles James Fox, Sheridan, Fitzpatrick, and the other leaders
of the Whig connection. At the age of ten he was portrayed
by Sir Joshua Reynolds, together with his brothers, Peniston
and Frederick, in the fine picture, ' The Affectionate Brothers ' ;
and in after-life he was fond of describing to artists his sittings
to the veteran President.^ ' I remember Reynolds,' he told
Haydon. ' He was a hard-working old dog. When I sat to him
he looked too hard to be happy.' But hard-working though Sir
' Walpole's Letters, ed. Cunningham, vol. vii. May 12, 1778.
'^ Moore's Life of Byron, p. 379.
' Torrens, Memoirs of Lord Melbourne, vol. i. p. 134.
* See an extract from a letter of Lord Melbourne's to Miss Emily Eden,
given in her Letters from India, vol. i. p. 5.
* Haydon's Autobiography, vol. ii. p. 343 ; Leslie, Autobiographical
BecoUections, pp. 169-170.

4 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Joshua was, he was enough of a diplomatist to coax the child to
sit a little longer by giving him a ride on his foot. Lamb went
to Eton in 1790, but no record of his school days has been pre
served. In July 1796 he was entered as a fellow commoner of
Trinity College, Cambridge, and went into residence in the
October following. As he was destined for the Bar, he was
entered at Lincoln's Inn on July 21, 1797, and proceeded to
keep his law terms simultaneously with his college terms.
William Lamb proceeded to his degree at the end of Trinity
term, 1799, having spent his college days in private study rather
than in following the easy curriculum which was then prescribed.
He succeeded, nevertheless, in gaining a declamation prize by
an oration ' On the Progressive Improvements of Mankind,'
which Charles Fox, with great good-nature, went out of his way
to praise in the House of Commons.
William Lamb in early manhood, as in after-life, was much
addicted to poetical composition. He contributed to the
Bugle, a weekly effusion of which the guests at Inverary Castle
were the staff, and his friend Matthew — better known as
'Monk' — Lewis the editor. With the audacity of youth he
plunged into political satire, and appeared as the author of an
Epistle to the Editor of the Anti-Jacobin, published in the
Morning Chronicle of January 17, 1798. The lines which were
most quoted were at the expense of the unfortunate embassy
to Lille : —
' I swear by all the youths that Malmesbury chose,
By Ellis' sapient prominence of nose,
By Morpeth's gait, important, proud, and big.
By Leveson Gower's crop-imitating wig.'
But clever though the ' Epistle ' was, Canning's guns soon
silenced his young antagonist. The rej^ly began : —
' Bard of the borrowed lyre ! to whom belong
The shreds and remnants of each hackney 'd song :
Thy verse thy friends in vain for wit explore.
And count but one good line in eighty-four.' '
' The one good line was the fourth. ' Crop-imitating wig ' means a wig
of the colour of his hair, which was an innovation in those days. See Hay-

YOUTH

William Lamb evidently entertained to the full that sym
pathy for Napoleon which was freely and factiously expressed by
Fox's followers at this time. The same spirit, too, is to be traced
m his letters to his mother, when, according to the educational
fashion among the great families, he and his brother Frederick
repaired towards the end of 1799 to Glasgow, where, on the warm
recommendation of Lord Lauderdale, they became resident pupils
of Professor Millar, the author of a now forgotten ' Historical
View^ of the English Government.' Frederick Lamb was not
long in giving Lady Melbourne an animated description of their
new surroundings : —

Hon. P. The only reason for not writing common occur-
Lad'y ° rences is that none occur. We go regularly
wedne"™^' ^u in the same round, and William has given
^^^" you an account of that round, so that I have
nothing left but to repeat it again, in hopes he has
left something out. If we tell any lies jou may de
tect them by comparing accounts. There is nothing
heard of in this house but study, though there is as
much idleness, drunkenness, &c. out of it as in most
universities. We breakfast at half-past nine, but I am
roused by a stupid, slow, lumbering mathematician who-
tumbles me out of bed at eight. During the whole of
the day we are seldom out of the house or the lecture-
rooms for more than an hour, and after supper, which
finishes a little after eleven, the reading generally con
tinues till near two. Saturday and Sunday are holi
days, but on Monday we have examinations in Millar's.
lectures. You may guess whether in this way many
things are likely to happen. Millar himself is a little
jolly dog, and the sharpest fellow I ever saw. All the
ladies here are contaminated with an itch for philo-
ward's Essay on Lord Melbourne, reprinted from the Quarterly Bevicw,
No. 289 in his Sketches of Eminent Statesmen and Writers (1880).

6 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
sophy and learning, and such a set of fools it never was
my lot to see. One of the Miss Millars is pretty, but
they are all philosophers, and the eldest is exactly like
Miss Trimmer. WiUiam quotes poetry to them all
day, but I don't think he has made any impression yet,
and my conversation with them is very little. One of
the fellows in the house is a Scotchman, a blustering,
positive sort of a fellow, but very good-humoured, and
with a good deal of knowledge. The other is an Irish
man, who is very good-humoured with none, and as like
Lord Duncannon as he can stand. So there is a sketch
of the family. We supped with Eichardson a fe^w"
nights ago, and a poking old booby he is.^ Lord
Lauderdale arrived in Edinburgh some days ago ; we
were to have gone over to him at the Christmas holi
days, but as there are none he has written to desire us
to attend upon him at Easter, when there are two or
three days without any lectures. I used to think the
English climate must be the worst in the whole world,
but it was before I had been in Scotland ; there is but
little frost here, but rain never ceasing, and the whole
family kee]3 up such an unremitting coughing as can
Ije heard nowhere else. Give my duty to my father.
Thank George for his copy of verses ; they are very
good ones, and I don't believe there is anybody in Glas
gow could write such, for there are no poets here.
I have just got the Morning Post ; it mentions the
report of Dundas's going out. You will hear every
thing from Huskisson, so when you write pray give
some account of it, and what the Admiral says about
it.^ ' Evidently the merchant mentioned in the next letter.
Mr. Huskisson, the well-known statesman, had married a daughter
of Admiral Milbanke, Lady Melbom-ne's uncle, in 1799.

YOUTH 7
Hon. Thank you for your account of Kinnaird.'
Lamb to ^^^ he say nothing of having heard from me,
bourn^"'" ^or of ally intention of writing to me ? I did
j^uS'yc, ^^ot ^^y much stress upon Lewis's^ authority,
¦^®°°- as his head is always full of one vagary or
another, but I was rather more alarmed upon hearing
that he had been with him, as he is certainly enough to
drive [distracted] any person of strong nerves and in
sound health, much more a valetudinarian enfeebled by
fever. Is he staying in town ? I hope you will con
trive this winter to rub off a few rum ideas which he
contracted, in these philosophical colleges, and to divest
him of rather too minute and scrupulous a morality,
which is entirely unfit for this age. I suppose they did
this for him a little at Edinburgh last year, but, how
ever, I daresay some work is still left for London. For
the company and manners of this place, I do not see
much diiFerence in them from the company and man
ners of any country town. I have dined out in a family
way at a wealthy merchant's, and we have had several
parties at home. We drink healths at dinner, hand
round the cake at tea, and put our spoons into our
cups when we desire to have no more, but exactly in
the same manner as we used to behave at Hatfield, at
Eton, and at Cambridge. Almost the only exclusive
custom I have remarked is a devilish good one, which
ought to be adopted everywhere. After the cheese
they hand round the table a bottle of whisky and
another of brandy, and the whole company, male and
1 This is Byron's friend Charles, eighth Baron Kinnaird, who was
born in 1780 and died in. 1826.
^ Matthew Gregory Lewis, the well-known author of TIte Monlc, The
Castle Spectre, Tales of Terror, and other novels and plays. He was a
great friend of Williaixi Lamb, and, dying in 1818, left him a valuable
library.

8 LORD MELBOURNE'S PaPERS
female in general, indulge in a dram. This is very com
fortable and very exhilarating, and affords an oppor
tunity for many jokes. As to language, they talk in
finitely better English here than at Newcastle, and are
much move easily understood. The town is a damnable
one, and the dirtiest I ever saw, and full of all the
inconveniences that accompany manufactures. I have
received the works of the Divine Plato and the G-reek
Grammar with great thankfulness, though Xenophon
would be of more use to me. You may safely tell Mrs.
Eussell that I never went to see the iron bridge. I
tried to lie as perdue at Newcastle as possible, but find
by this that I have not succeeded.
We have odd reports about Dundas here too. He
has seen nobody since he has been at Edinburgh, and
when the magistrates waited upon him in form they were
refused admittance. The whispered rumour is that lie
is mad. Lunacy is the distemper which common fame
seems always to give our Ministers (justly enough)
when they keep themselves up. I remember they said
so of Pitt a year ago. The time may not be very far
ofi" when they may be devilishly glad to be able to plead
it. Everything wears a hostile appearance again. If
the enthusiasm of the French can be roused for one
more effort they will gain their point. My uncle must
be very angry at the surrender of Coni, but St. Cyr',s
victory will put him into spirits again.^ You never tell
me how he does. I am afraid this weather with its
sudden changes is unfavourable to him.
I have also received the Precis. What do people
think in general of Godwin's novel ?^ I have only
' St. Cyr won a victory over the Austrians at Albano on December 14
and so retrieved the surrender of Coni on the 6th.
¦' G-odwiu's novel St. Leon was published in 17'Jl).

YOUTH 9
read the first, and best part of the second volume, and
it strikes me as being a work of very clumsy con
struction and very dull execution. The first volume
is a complete storjr of itself. He appears to have run
into the very extreme opposite to his former opinions.
In his earlier works, particularly in his ' Political Jus
tice,' he has gone so far as to say that no man is bound
to keep a promise. He makes all St. Leon's, or the
greatest part of St. Leon's, misery arise from the
necessity he thinks himself under of keeping a promise
which it would do nobody any harm to break. I mean
the promise of secrecy to the man who gives him the
Philosopher's Stone. Nobody but a fool would think
himself bound to keep such a promise at such an ex
pense. There is not even an attempt at novelty of
character, and the pages are fiUed out with the idlest and
oldest declamation. Besides, who but a fool would not
perceive that the whole interest of the book is taken
away by the Preface, in which he informs us that he is
in possession of the Philosopher's Stone, and that he is
not happy with it. It is no use to read any farther.
This lets us into the whole purport of the book. What
a miserable want of taste, too, to call his heroine
Pandora. Everyone must see and think of her box of
evils, of which this book is not the least. These are all
palpable, gross, puerile blunders. If Lewis would but
give his own abilities fair play he could write a novel
fifty times as good.
I see the ' Passage of the St. Gothard ' has found its
way into the newspapers, and from the correctness of
the text and length of the notes I suppose by design
of the author.' I hke it much better than I did when
' Georn-iana, Duchess of Devonshire, the admirer of Dr. Johnson and
the devoted adherent of Charles Fox. The poem is to be found in the

10 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I saw it in manuscript, though some of the staiizas
might easily be made better with slight alteration. The
great fault is, that a poem inscribed to her children
should begin with an address to Italy. She ought in
justice to her children to have given them one or two
stanzas more, for now they are tagged on to the tail of
a poem in which they seem to have no business.
A Scotch lady (not a Miss Millar, but a Miss Mal
colm, or some such name) asked me, first, if I knew the
Duchess of D., and, secondly, if she played well upon
the harpsichord. To which I knew not what to reply,
so I believe I passed for an impostor.
I have received Dr. Langford's treatise on the
Sacrament, and have written to praise it and thank him
for it.i

The same I CAVE my wholc wratli vent yesterday in a long
same^ letter to Adair,^ so that you will have my more
jiTnuarJ' ^o^l ^^^ deliberate view of the subject. Min-
¦^*' isters, I take it, were put into a great dilemma
by the proposal of Bonaparte.^ On the other hand, the
letter was temperate and respectful in the highest degree,
no shadow of insult or even of boasting. No conditions
were jaroposed which could be seized upon as a pretext
Morning Post of December 21, 1799. It gave rise to Coleridge's ode with
the refrain — ' Oh lady, nursed in pomp and pleasure.
Whence learned you that heroic measure ? '
To which the answer was— From the children, to whom William Lamb
takes such strong exception.
' A Short Treatise on the Requisites for Confirmation ; with an
Introductory Dissertation on the Sacrament. By William Langford.
1799. - Sir Robert Adair, the diplomatist and last survivor of Fox's friends,
who died in 1855.
¦^ The First Consul's letter to the King (December 25, 1799).

YOUTH n
for so abruptly refusing to treat. How could they
answer to the people for this peremptory, unexplained
rejection of all negotiation? On the other hand, they
have, I suppose, entered into strict connections, cer
tainly with Eussia, and perhaps with Austria, by
whose means they certainly expect to restore the
monarchy. These connections depend but on a
hazard ; any suspicion of their sincerity would break
them off immediately. If the}' had once negotiated,
the coalition would most probably have been dissolved.
Everyone would have thought of shifting for himself.
This I should guess to be the danger, the fear of which
has forced them upon the desperate measure they ha\'e
taken — a measure which appears of such moment that,
if I did not know that one always exaggerates the
events of the day, I should think it must either lead
them to the scaffold, or make them the perpetual, ab
solute tyrants of this country. If the people are so
blind to future, and, what is more extraordinar}^, so
callous to present misery as to permit our rulers,
notwithstanding this fair and generous overture, to per
severe in the present contest, they must consider them
as pledging their reputations and their lives upon the
success of it. If they do succeed, they will be lords
of the earth, and we must wait in patience for the slow
progress of opinion, knowledge, and truth. If they
fail, I cannot but think that everything will turn out
accordino- to our wishes. This is a terrible crisis. I
tremble for France, even though her whole military force
is at the disposal of Bonaparte. As to Lord Grenville's
letter, it has been admirably exposed in most of the
opposition prints, particularly in the Morning Post.^
' Lord GrenviUe, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, answered
the latter on January 4. The Morning Post of January 7 considered his

12 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Its low scurrility and its weak reasoning are too obvi
ous to escape the most bungling observer. The whole
transaction leaves the odium of the war entirely upon
us, and Bonaparte laid a snare for us with the utmost
art, which we could not possibly escape. We have
broken through the meshes in the most awkward and
clumsy manner. If anything can produce any sensa
tion on this panic-struck, prejudiced British people, this
desperate measure, together with the hardness of the
season, the dearness of corn, and the distress of trade,
seem calamities severe enough to excite in their minds
a little inquiry into the causes and reasons and necessity
for them. I am very eager to hear as far as I can
somewhat of the general reception of the determination
of Government. The Aristocrats here are said to grum
ble, but they are most of them manufacturers, and
there is no reliance to be placed upon their discontent.
If they should become really alarmed and displeased
the system goes to pieces that moment ; but they will
bear more taxes yet. Ministers, by your account, boast
of what must appear to every man who feels any im-
partial sense of honour the meanest and basest of arti
fices — I mean the smuggling of a proclamation to the
Eoyalists into France, under form of an answer to the
Consul's letter. The transaction u2Don the whole is such
that, if it is not followed up by the most decisive
success, it must tell very heavily against the authors of
it. We have a report of another revolution at Naples,
but the news is too good to be true.^ The Democrats
note ' disorderly in its arrangement, vague and indefinite in its expres
sions, and barbarous in its style ; worthy of Ministers, but not worthy of
their country.'
' It was not true, as the sanguinary punishment of the insurgents,
which Nelson is myustly supposed to have inaugurated, was still in full
swing.

YOUTH 13
here, who at first were angry at Bonaparte and the
new French constitution, consider his measures now as
necessary for the great temporary effort which France
has to make. We are sanguine enough to expect from
it the downfall of the House of Austria and the estab
lishment of a free government in Germany. I am rather
more fearfal. I wish the French may be able to defend
themselves from their enemies abroad and at home.
Mr. Fox might certainly come forward now with
great propriety, and without subjecting himself to the
charge of inconsistency, because he would stand with
more strength and firmness than ever, though that is
almost impossible, upon his old ground of advising
negotiation. But I cannot help thinking that, though
his speaking might and most probably would have a
great effect, his silence would have a greater.'- While
there is an Opposition in the House of Commons, the
people think that their rights are taken care of,
and go to sleep. When there is none, they feel them
selves more in the hands of Ministry (not that they
really are more so), and begin to watch for themselves.
A little indignation may be excited, and, perhaps, a few
addresses procured by their speeches, but nothing
radical can be done. The King will maintain at all
hazards the Ministry ; they themselves are too old in
their trade to be frightened by petitions or mobs ; Par
liament is composed of their bondsmen ; the majority of
electors throughout- the country are either bought or
frightened. This I take not to be an exaggeration of
their strength. What is to move this weighty fabric,
built upon influence, power, and interest, defended as it
is by an immense military force ? If they hold together,
and resolve to stand out to the last, it is impossible to
• Fox had retired from Parliament in 1797.

14 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
conceal from oneself that nothuig can overthrow them
but the greatest and most important event, such as the
failure of the funds, or the rising of the mass of the
people. So much for the present. Millar has come to
ask me to walk with him. We are very well.
The same I RECEIVED your letter and the pamphlet both
lime; togcthcr yestcrday. I have been drudging
undated, through the latter as well as I can with a dic
tionary. It appears evidently to be written, as Ministers
say, by an instrument of Sieyes, but it is written -with a
force of argument and truth which an instrument of
Pitt's dares not meet, and cannot refute.^ Indeed, the
case is so clear, the offers of France are so plain and
decided, and our rejection so mean and shufiling, that
no evasion, no subterfuge is left for those aristocrats
who have hitherto professed that their only aim was to
repress the hostile intentions of France. Those inten
tions are publicly disavowed. If they pretend to say
that they are not really renounced, why do they not
infer that the Emperor of Eussia is at bottom a Jacobin,
or anything else ? The war may still be persisted in by
Lord Fitzwilliam and Mr. Windham upon their prin
ciples, but as to the rest they have not a single argu
ment left to rest upon. Bonaparte's second letter must
perplex them exceedingly. We had an imperfect
account of the contents in the Star of last night. It
appears to be written with remarkable clearness and
acuteness. The mention of the House of Stuart is
admirable, because it is just.'^ The whole transaction
' Evidently some pamphlet in defence of the First Consul's letter. It
was apparently mentioned by Ministers in the debate on the Address, but
the allusion is not to be found in the reports of their speeches, pubhshed '
ill the Parliamentary History.
¦' ' The First Consul of the French Republic could not doubt that his

YOUTH l.-)
sets the abihties of Bonaparte and his advisers in the
highest point of view. Every fine he writes carries
with it an air of greatness and sincerity. Every line we
return appears written only to mislead and to deceive.
As to Mr. Fox, I think the way in which he would act
with the greatest propriety and dignity and utility is
very clear. If the present events cause a great sensa
tion in the country, his constituents will surely desire
him to go down to Parliament. If the}' do not call
upon him, it must be concluded that they do not want
him. If I were he, I would come forward with the
support and concurrence of the country, or not at all.
I do not know whether the best thing he could do would
not be to give up his seat at this moment. Is any one
member of the House of Commons prepared to own
that he has been in the wrong, and vote with him ? Are
the people ready decisively to declare their approbation
of his conduct ? Temporising measures are what we
have more particularly to dread. Unless there is a
general and radical change of opinion, which is not to
be expected, it is vain to trust to the cowardly dis
satisfaction arising from defeat and temporary hardship.
A naval victory, the capture of a few useless ships,
would at this moment drive the whole nation mad, and
make them expect to be masters of Paris in a fortnight.
Nothing can be hoped for but from repeated disappoint
ment and the severest suffering ; and what selfish, brutish
motives are these ? We have certainly been for a long
time, for freedom of thought and opinion, for public spirit
and toleration, the first nation in Europe. We have now
Britannic Majesty recognised the right of nations to choose the form of
then: government, since it is from the exercise of this right that he holds
his crown.'— Talleyrand's Letter to Lord GrenviUe of the 20th Nivose
(January 14).

IG LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
certainly lost our superiority, and there is every reason
to fear that we shall never regain it. We shall shortly
be the last. We are fixed in bigotry and prejudice.
We think there is no liberty but our liberty, no govern
ment but our government, and no religion but our
religion. Some time ago, perhaps, we were right in
thinking so, but we have reasons enough before our
eyes at present to induce us to alter our opinion.
You have had Lewis and Kinnaird both at Brocket.
I hear nothing but praises of the latter here. As for
the former, he might be pleasant enough if he was not
always upon the strain. I think, now that the heat of
anger and dissatisfaction has passed away, I could dra-w
a good character of him. I hear he intends proposing
to Emily Stratford. I think she will keep him in toler
ably warm water for the rest of his life. She -will
make him shed more tears and look more doleful in
assembly-rooms than ever I did. It would not be a
bad speculation for her to marry him, for she may
get him killed off in a duel as soon as she pleases.
Brunei can easily ascertain whether my letter was
opened or not, as it was closed both with a wafer and
with sealing-wax.^ I have no seal, and the impression
on the wax was some marks made with a pen or a pair
of scissors, or something of that kind. Probably the
address and the seal together made him think it the
handiwork of some clerk of the Post Ofiice. If so, it is
only imputable to me ; the bad folding of the letter, too,
is an internal evidence of my hand. Holliday is such a
goose that he may be allowed to think anything, but
Lord C. ought not, by rights, to be so foohsh. Poor
1 This may, perhaps, be Sir Marc Brunei. But it is not easy to see
how the two could have become acquainted, unless it was through Lord
Spencer, to whom Brunei had submitted an invention.

YOUTH 17
Andover ! if the shot were to hit anybody they might
certainly have been better directed.^ It has put me in
mmd to send you some unfinished stanzas, which are, I
think, the best I ever wrote. The last four particularly
are, I believe, original, or rather originally turned.
Many of the lines are bad, and must be altered, there
fore do not show them much, nor give any copies.
Adair ought to see them to make up for ' Barine.' '^
The same I BELIEVE I havc not thanked you yet for ' No.
same^ Feb- 84 : a Talc of the Nineteenth Century ' (by-the-
ruary 8. -j^^^^ -^^ ^^ ^^^^j the eighteenth, but no matter for
that) ; the story is excellent, and wants only the intro
duction of the Duke and Prince W. of. Gloucester, who,
I am afraid, did not make their appearance that even
ing, as I see no mention of them in the poem.^ Some
of the stanzas are rather rough and harsh, but the story
is so good that it does not want any foreign aid or
ornament. As to my own verses, you do not seem to
give me any credit for novelty of thought, but it appears
to me that the manner in which we go dancing on
through life, without seeming to think about an event
which may happen every instant, and at the same time
entirely unknowing of what will become of us when it
does happen, is a very curious circumstance, which,
though it may have been hinted at, has never been
poetically dilated and set in a full point of view before.
The stanzas which Brand "^ is thinking of are not cut out,
' Lord Andover was killed through a gun accident near Holkham,
on January 10. The HoUiday mentioned may possibly be the author of
the Life of Lord Mansfield.
' Possibly a previous production of William Lamb's.
^ Evidently a poem in some magazine or keepsake.
^ Mr. Brand was afterwards to move a hostile resolution, on the for
mation of Mr. Perceval's Cabmet, which was seconded by WiUiam Lamb.

18 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
but not yet quite fitted in. They are to follow almost
immediately after those which you have. As to ' dis
turbed,' it must be read in three syllables, dis-tur-bed.
I believe this usage is too old and too exploded by our
more modern poets to be borne now, but I have rather
a partiality for it myself, as the contraction of it into
' disturb'd ' augments the number of those great
blemishes of our language, consonants accumulated at
the end of words. I question whether a knowledge of
music can be said to assist poetry — that is, whether a
completely correct and perfect ear for the latter may
not be acquired without any of the former. Lewis is
certainly a case in point ; his ear is extremely exact,
and his stanzas (not his heroic verses) have a very
peculiarly beautiful glow. It must be remarked, how
ever, that prose writing requires as correct an ear at
least as poetry, for it is certainly more various. The
reason that Lewis has not this in the same perfection is
that he has read less prose, and has accustomed himself
less to consider the cadences of periods. The same
reason may be given for the mediocre rhythm of his ten-
syllable verses ; it is all habit and exercise.
I have read the Letters, and am not very indignant.^
The calumny is too unskilful, atrocious as it is, to move
me much. When they say that Bonaparte is an igno
rant man, and a bad general, one can only smile, and
ask them if they are quite easy about the next cam-
Copies of Original Letters from the Army of General Bonaparte.
These letters were intercepted by the Turkish and Enghsh ships of war,
and published in two parts (1798 and 1799) with anonymous prefaces. It
is the first part, containing descriptions of the plight of the French army
in Egypt, to which WiUiam Lamb alludes. Jaubert was kiUed in the ex
plosion on board the Orient at the battle of the Nile. There is certainly
nothing in his letter, printed at page 36 of the Letters, to account for his
being styled in a footnote ' a viUam upon principle' (not ' the execrable').

YOUTH 10
paign. It is not quite so easy to restrain wrath when,
without assigning any reason, they stigmatise in the
most savage manner an officer who died gallantly for
his country. Will you just ask, if you can safely, for
what concealed reason they call General Jaubert ' the
execrable ' ? I do not quite understand their praise of
Kleber, but I suppose, since his late success, it is turned
into abuse. The violence of the publication rather out
does itself, for there are very few persons who do not
think the Letters, as well as the Preface, compositions of
Canning's. I sometimes almost get knocked down for
pretending to affirm that I do not think Ministry quite
such paltry rogues as to have forged them. It is impos
sible to determine whether the Preface is Canning's, or
Gifford's, or some one else's of the same set, for the like
hitch and catch of monotonous wit runs through them
all — poets, secretaries, parsons, and nobles, from the
top to the bottom, from Frere to Boringdon.^ Whoever
the author may be signifies little. The only doubt is
whether he be a more degraded fool, or a more infamous
calumniator. I daresay Lord Egremont ^ is right enough
about the disputatious disposition of those men who
have been so unfortunate as to have been at Millar's.
But this I take to be the case throughout the whole
university as much as at Millar's, and at Edinliurgh
still more than here. No place can be perfect;
and the truth is, that the Scotch universities are very
much calculated to make a man vain, important, and
' Gilford is, of com-se, the author of the Baviad and M^viad, and
editor of the Anti-Jacobin and Quarterly ; Hookham Frere, one of the
wittiest of the contributors to the Anti-Jacobin, and subsequently Minister
at Madrid. Lord Boringdon, a coUege friend of Canning's, was after
wards created Earl of Morley, and died in 1840.
» The well-known patron of art who is mentioned m the biographies
of all the great painters. He died at Petworth in 1837.
c2

20 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
pedantic. This is naturally the case where there is a
great deal of reading. You cannot have both the ad
vantages of study and of the world together. The way
is to let neither of them get too fast a hold of you, and
this is done by nothing so well as by frequent changes
of place, of persons, and of companions. We have two
fellows in the house with us, who think themselves,
each of them, as wise as Plato and Aristotle put to
gether, and ask, with a supercilious sort of doubt,
whether Pitt is really a good orator, or Fox has much
political knowledge. This will aU wear off in time ;
though, to be sure, one of them is three-and-twenty
and has been in France since the Eevolution, so that
I am afraid he is incorrigible, which is a pity, as he
is really a fellow of some abilities. The other is an
Irishman, about my age, who knew nothing before he
came here last year, and who, therefore, thinks that
nobody knows anything anywhere else. He has tried
to persuade me once or twice that Millar is the only
person in Great Britain who is engaged in philosophical
speculation ; and I believe he sets me down for an
obstinate blockhead because I do not believe him.
The debates in the House of Lords did not make a great
show in the newspaper, and Carlisle, Eomney, and Car
narvon seemed to have made sneaking half-and-half
sort of speeches. There was nothing so strong in print
as the words of Lord Carnarvon which you have
written to me. I am very sorry that they have come
forward at all, and shall be, whatever speech Fox may
have made in the House of Commons. Their sentiments
were well enough known ; nobody could doubt but that
they would come forM^ard whenever there was any
chance of success ; but they have by this time shown
an eagerness to take advantage of any circumstance

YOUTH 21
that might afford them a hope ; they have anticipated
and prevented the wishes of the nation ; they have done
away entirely with the effect of their secession, and
made it appear not the effect of disapprobation, but of
disappointment. The Duke's speech, as given in the
papers, is weak and querulous ; Lord Holland's just
nothing at aU. Unless they can say something more
plain and decisive they had better hold their tongues.
A miserable division, too — five and a madman.^ They
will, of course, make a better figure in the House of
Commons ; but still they will be beat by a large ma
jority, and that sanctions the measures of Ministry.
If they had continued quite still, the effect would have
been amazing. Altogether I am in terrible fear about
politics. The coalition is formidable. If France stands
her ground, however, all will do yet. I have written
this letter at two or three different times during yester
day and the day before, but I delayed sending it till
to-day, because Frederick has had a sore throat and
fever, which is epidemical here (very slightly), and I
would not mention it tiU I could tell you that he was
quite well. Cleghorn has been very attentive to him,
though he scarcely at any time had any need of him.
Farewell ; I am impatient to read Fox's speech, but
must wait till Friday.
I PASS over the melancholy information of }'our
J. llG S£Lin.6 ^
to the same, jg^ter Little Or nothino- can be said ujion
February " •" n t ¦ i
"• such a subject so judiciously and properly as
1 The debate on the King's message respectmg overtures of peace from
the Consular Government, January 22, 1800. The minority was com-
nosed of the Duke of Bedford, the Earl of Albemarle, Lords Ponsonby,
Holland, King, and Camelford, of whom the last was apparently ' the
madman.' See the letter of March 6.

22 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
not to appear rather like ostentation than concern.
Every mind under such circumstances finds its own
consolation, one in religion, another in philosophy, and
by its own reflections softens and mitigates that sorrow
which the officious attempts of others only irritate.
As to Lewis's business, Ben King is the person who
told me it, and for whom I am afraid.^ The affair was
put into his uncle's (a lawyer's) hands, and I believe it
is not usual for these things to be told until the de
claration is made public. However, if Lewis does not
know whence Kinnaird got the story, and does not
think it worth his while to enquire — which most pro
bably he does not — we are safe. I understand besides—
but this must be ten times more secret if possible — that
he is most likely to fail, as he has nothing to produce .
but assertions of verbal promises.
' Sappho ' is still a subject of dispute, though the
vehemence of it has a good deal decreased. Adair has
sent me a long discussion of Parr's upon the subject,
with a request that I will return it as soon as I have
deciphered it.''^ You may tell him that I believe I shaU
keep it for ever, for both I and the Greek Professor
have been labouring at it for this week past, and can
scarcely make anything out of it. I was once a little
staggered in my opinion about the ode, but I have
recovered it again, and, I believe, shall hold it firmly.
It is a pity we have not the whole of it, and likewise of
CatuUus's translation. Tell the Duke of Bedford that I
will suspend judgment according to his desires, though
the time for deliberation will be longer than I believe
o
' A brother of Lord King mentioned later on.
^ Dr. Parr, the well-known scholar, was now living at Hatton, in War
wickshire. The badness of his handwriting was proverbial (' Life of Dr.
Eouth.' in Dean Burgon's Liues of Twelve Good Men).

YOUTH 2.3
even his prudence ever took. By-the-bye, how comes
Lord Camelford loose again and voting in opposition ?
I wish you would send me Fox's and Grattan's speeches,
both of which I see are published. What does Ber-
trand de Moleville say in his pamphlet ? ^ How strange
and enigmatical are politics of a sudden become !
Were Ministers deceived about the intentions of Eussia ?
By heavens, if there was a crisis in the affairs of the
world, this is one !
Farewell ! I am almost ashamed of sending so short
a letter, but you will think it better than none. Fre
derick is very well, and gone at this moment (seven
o'clock in the evening) to see Herman Boar, the juggler.
Love to Emily. I have not forgot her letter, but will
, acknowledge it shortly. I have returned Martindale
an answer in the negative. I will have nought to do
with any club.

The same ¦''- HAVE two loug letters of yours and several
tothesame. gjiortcr oucs, whicli I liavc not answered. I
Thursday, '
March 6. .^^]^ ^j.j ^q -write to you now, though I do not
know whether I shall be able. I am a most capricious
correspondent. Sometimes I like nothing so well as
scribbling, and sometimes I cannot endure to hear my
pen scratch against the paper. I am sorry to hear
your account of Kinnaird, but I know it to be some
thing like the truth, though a little exaggerated. Steadi
ness of opinion is necessary, but steadiness of conduct
for a fellow who has plenty of money does not signify
' The Marquis Bertrand de MoleviUe, who had been Minister of
Marine and afterwards of the PoUce under Louis XVI., fled to Ergland,
and there pubhshed in 1800 some Annals of the French Bevolation.
The were quoted by Pox in the House of Commons, and a correspondence
arose.

24 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
much. I mean by conduct, whether he studies law or
physic, whether he spends his time at Lincoln's Inn or
in a German university. It is impossible, I think, that
you can expect him to read the law steadily and to
any great extent. You see that Brunei, who has a
much stronger character, does not do it. I do not see
any good in his going abroad with Mr. GrenviUe, any
more than I do in his having a troop of Yeomanry ; it
is all too like compromise and complaisance and his
father. I daresay that Young's letter was a very ridi
culous one. His manner is odd, but he is a most
admirable scholar, and I daresay an able man in other
respects, though I do not know, for, as he is very cau
tious and guarded, I cannot talk politics very freely
with him. I almost wonder that Fox took the trouble
to answer Bertrand de Moleville ; calling him a fool is
noticing him too much. Fox's speech is certainly one
of the finest compositions I ever read ; exactly in the
tone he ought to hold — highly contemptuous to the
House, and at the same time perfectly within the bounds
of propriety. Tierney, and more particularly Sheridan,
are still too full of idle jargon about Jacobin principles.
If you allow and admit any of those indefinite expres
sions of Ministers, }"ou give up the whole of the ques
tion. The facility with which Pitt has raised the loan
is very unfavourable ; even though he may not have
got it upon such good terms as he says, it will enable
him to go through another campaign, and another very
probably after that. I was in hopes that he would at
least double the tax upon income. I have had a long
letter from Ben King, written to prove that the loan is
not obtained so well as is siqiposed ; but I cannot
understand his statements any better than Pitt's. Does-
any one pay any regard to Lord Stanhope? If his

YOUTH 25
promises are near being correct, Gib is a strong one.^
What has made Lord Camelford, who was so eager to
assassinate Barras, w^ieel about? He had better not
attempt to go to France now. He will not find the
King's pardon easy ^to'be obtained. I understand that
the first time he divided in the minority, it was so little
expected that the -Chancellor sent to him to assure
him that he had made a mistake. He is a noble acces
sion to the Opposition Lords, and I think he. Stanhope,"
King, and HoUand may challenge Europe to produce
equal oddities. We are very eager to hear news from
the Continent. We expect a great blow early, and I
think, upon the whole, do not much fear a campaign
similar .t.o the last. Suwarrow's victories were gained
over EewbeU -and Lepaux. Let him try his hand with
Carnot and Bonaparte. I cannot help writing freely.
Brand's apprehensions are nonsense ; and besides, what
if they were true ? — it is unnecessary dissimulation to
pretend to wish well to the arms of Eussia and Austria.
One must indeed affect to look a little grave upon the
failure of an expedition to Holland. I suppose we are
certainly to send another next autumn, after having
talked about it aU the spring and summer. Consider
ing the great advantages which, according to Dundas,
we derived from it, it would certainly be unpardonable
in the Ministry not to repeat so beneficial a scheme.
Almost Bonaparte's first appearance was at the head
of one of the columns that marched upon Toulon. By-
the-bye, are there no more of the Precis come out?
Grattan's speech is, I think, not a very excellent one.
The Union is, I suppose, by this time carried, through
1 Lord Stanhope, on February 20, moved for an address to enter into
negotiations for peace with France ; but the pubhshed versions of his
speech contain no mention of Gibraltar.

26 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
thick and thin. Upon my soul, the impudence and au
dacity of Ministers would in a better cause be termed
courage and perseverance. I will answer Emily's letter
soon. We have received a letter from George. I do
not enquire about my uncle. I expect to hear from
him too soon.I HAVE this moment received your note and
The same
to the HoUiday's paper, which put me in mind that I
Thursday, havB uot answcrcd the long letter I received
Marcli 27 from you the day before yesterday. I was in
despair upon hearing of the intention of the French to .
evacuate Egypt. I was in hopes that they would have
been able to have maintained themselves there in spite
of Canning's wit and Sir Sydney's valour.^ But, how
ever, all cannot, or at least does not, turn out as one
wishes. Are the remarks upon the Preface to the inter
cepted correspondence certainly Tierney's ? I suppose
you know by this time. I think they are in what I
should guess to be his style. They are well enough,
and, as you say, made in a very proper and judicious
spirit, but they are very plain and obvious, and such as
every man of common sense must make in his own
mind. They add nothing to what one had thought be
fore. Moore's book is but just worth reading. He writes
worse and worse every publication, but still he writes
better than the majority of novelists.''^ Keep the French
novels till I come to town. I think Mercier is worth
your looking at.^ I lose about as much of the spirit of
' It is, perhaps, hardly necessary to say that the allusion is to Sir
Sydney Smith's defence of Acre.
^ This novelist, Robert Moore, M.D., is now almost forgotten. His
most successful novel, Zeluco, was published in 1789 ; the book in question,
Mordaunt, which had just aiipeared, was by no means so popular.
^ Louis S^bastien Mercier, French man of letters, born in 1740, died

YOUTH 27
a play in French as I do of a German one in an English
translation — at least, I suppose so — and, judging in this
manner, I think him infinitely superior to Kotzebue. He
is sometimes ludicrous and overstrained, but he is never
so extravagant, and he is fuU as much master of nature
and feehng. I speak only of two plays, which are all
that I have read ; these are ' Le Juge ' and ' Jean Hen-
nuyer.' I sliaU read another or two whenever I have
time. I beUeve I have now finished aU the literature I had
to mention, and shall proceed to the observations upon
men, manners, &c. Nothing is so essential as clear
arrangement. Kinnaird's want of tact, as y^ou call it,
or of propriety, as I think it may be termed, is a dis
ease which I begin to consider as incurable. It must,
therefore, be borne with. His consequence, which he
always had, but which he greatly increased in Scotland,
and his pompous profession of purity of morals, if they
do not get better soon, must, I am afraid, be also con
sidered as incurable. Everybody has foibles, from
which, as Pitt says of Jacobinism, no quarantine can
purify him, and these are his. No resource remains
but to make up your mind to put up with them, or to
have nothing more to do with the possessor of them.
As to Lewis's way of laughing people out of them—
which, by the way, you are sometimes a httle inclined
to adopt— it only confirms them, and makes the person
ridiculed hate you into the bargain. Lord Egremont
is very good, and not the less so because he is in some
measure right. You did not teU him, I suppose, that I
in 1814 His plays, which were genuine attempts to break through the
classical traditions of the French stage, were pubhshed in four volumes
(1778-1784) He also wrote a Tableau de Paris, a prolix and morahsmg
desw-ipt-on of the French capital, in twelve volumes.

28 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPER?
say SO. I have found out the persons whom he has
known who have been here. They are httle Kingsman—
whom, I believe, you do not know — a Scotch, chattering,
riotous fellow with very considerable acuteness and
ability, and Mr. Thomas, son of Sir George Thomas,
a dull, heavy, drawling fellow. At least, so he was
-w^hen he was here, and so he was thought all the
time he was here, but I suppose Egremont found
him fluent enough at his return. I wish you would
get acquainted with Lord King and Parnell, that you
may let me know how they are going on.^ I am
afraid they are half mad, and only eager to overthrow
the Church and put up the Dissenters. This last sen
tence brings me very naturaUy to the sermon, which
so exactly hits Lewis's taste both in argument and
eloquence. I confess it meets mine in neither.^ The
first is founded upon false statements of former facts,
upon random assertion of the present, and upon idle
prophecies for the future. The latter is certainly vigor
ous in some places, but it is not excellent enough to be
entitled to any consideration at a period when almost
everybody can write with sufficient spirit and accuracy.
Composition has become a mechanical art, which almost
every person can obtain. It is difficult to find something
good and just and new to say, but it is by no means
difficult to find words in which to say it. What I par
ticularly reprobate in this sermon, and what wiU be
^ Peter, seventh Lord Eng, had just made his maiden speech. He
was the author of the Life of John LocJce, and died in 1838. Sir Henry
ParneU, afterwards Lord Congleton, was subsequently to distinguish him
self as a writer on the cm-rency, and as Paymaster-General in Lord
Melbourne's second Ministry. Both he and Lord King were in residence
at Trinity about the same time as William Lamb.
- This was a sermon preached by Robert Hall, the great Baptist
divine, on ' Modern Infidelity' with respect to its influence on Society '
(1800). It has been constantly republished.

YOUTH 20
found in all writings of this nature, is the indiscriminate
abuse of all who have thought against them. They take
the faults and crimes of any one man, and apply them
liberally to the whole sect. Because Bolingbroke was
a debauched man, they say all atheists are debauched;
because Eousseau was a madman, they say all atheists
are mad ; because Mirabeau was a rogue, they say all
atheists are rogues. This is a way of argument entirely
nonsensical, and completely refuted by facts, yet you
wiU find it insisted upon throughout the whole of the
sermon. Look to page 35 — 'When we consider the
character of the atheistical sect ' ; and to page 65 —
' The features which compose the characters of apos
tates,' &c. Another point Avhich all priests of the
present day, and, indeed, of every other day, insist
upon with equal presumption and absurdity is the
ignorance of their opponents. Vide the Preface to the
Sermon, page iv. — ' The most luminous statements of
the evidences of Christianity,' &c. However, read it
through. I do not think you can find one argument of
the absurdity of which I cannot, I will not say convince
you, for that is a bold word, but of the validity of
which I cannot make you doubt. I do not like the
Dissenters, and this HaU is one. They are more zealous,
and consequently more intolerant, than the EstabUshed
Church. Their only object is power. If we are to
have a prevailing religion, let us have one that is cool
and indifferent, and such a one as we have got. Not
that I am so foohsh as to dread any fires and faggots and
wheels and axes, but there are other modes of persecu
tion. Toleration is the only good and just principle, and
toleration for every opinion that can possibly be formed.
Adieu ! This is a letter of criticism and observation.
I wiU write again soon about WiUie and aU that.

30 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
We have to-day drawn a draft upon Messrs.
The same -i '¦
to the Snow & Co., payable twenty days after date,
April 4. £qp 20/. As we had only about five days vaca
tion, and had omitted to write to you about it before,
we could not wait for a letter from you. We are just
returned from Lanark, where we went to see the Falls
of Clyde, which are very grand and very beautiful, but
rather more the latter, and we set off to-morrow for
Loch Lomond. I do not think that the glassy bosom
of the Leven Water and the craggy summit of Ben
Lomond are objects fitted to produce the tender and
the amorous. However, I will try, and if my thoughts
produce anything I will communicate. By-the-bye,
Frederick has the impudence to say that he does not
know now but what Eobinson's Epic Poem may end in
a Hymeneal Song.^ Farewell ! I am afraid a letter
will arrive from you to-morrow, which we shall not
get till Monday. We are in terrible dumps about
Egypt and Malta. Nothing but a good blow on the
Continent can revive us.
After his departure from Glasgow William Lamb proceeded
to read for the Bar. He seems to have applied himself to his
studies with some assiduity, and monuments of Ms industry
remain in the shape of a note-book on law lectures, with the
inscription 'Assumpsit,' and another fuff of legal definitions
arranged alphabetically. At the same time it is probable that
the society of Melbourne House and Carlton House occupied
the greater part of his time, and he had by no means altogether
relinquished poetry. We find him, for instance, writing an
epilogue on ' The Advantages of Peace ' for Miss Berry's
' This may not impossibly be the statesman who, as Viscount Gode-
rich, was Prime Minister after Canning's death (1827-28), and Colonial
Secretary and Lord Privy Seal under Sir Robert Peel. But he was not
married until several years afterwards. He obtained the Browne medal
at Cambridge in 1801 for a Latin ode on ' The Capture of Malta,' which
may be the epic in question.

YOUTH 81
' Fashionable Friends ' when it was played at Drury Lane in
May 1802.1 The poem is hardly above mediocrity, and the
piece itself was withdrawn after the third night.
Mr. Lamb was called to the Bar in Michaelmas Term 1804,
and went the Northern Circuit. At the Lancashire Sessions
he received a complimentary brief through the influence of
Scarlett, afterwards Lord Abinger. He used to say that the
first sight of his name on the back gave him the highest
feeling of satisfaction he ever experienced, very far transcend
ing his enjoyment on being appointed Prime Minister. But
while he was preparing for his profession — and his work at the
Home Office proves that he would have made an excellent
lawyer — his elder brother, Peniston, died, and the course of his
life was changed. In the following year he was returned for
Leominster, and on June 3 he married Lady Caroline Ponsonby,
only daughter of the Earl of Bessborough. Lord Minto dined
at Eoehampton with Lord Bessborough on August 23, and
records that * We had two of the Mr. Lambs there, the eldest of
whom, having been the second brother, was intended for the
law ; he seemed to be a remarkably pleasant, clever, and well-
informed young man ; he is now the eldest son. The other,
George, seems merely a good-natured lad.'
' Miss Berry's Journal, ii. 196.

32 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE II
FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT
1805-1812
William Lamb had not been long in Parliament before the
death of Mr. Pitt, on January 23, 1806, placed his friends in
power. The Opposition, under the leadership of Lord GrenviUe
and Mr. Pox, and reinforced by the friends of Lord Sidmouth,
assumed office, and that shortlived administration was formed
which is known as that of ' All the Talents.' But the breakdo-wn
of the negotiations for peace with France, followed by the death of
Pox — on whose bust Lamb wrote some lines full of feeling —
radically altered their position. Parliament met again on
December 19, and Mr. Lamb made his maiden speech as mover
of the Address in reply to the King's Speech. In the following
March, on the day before the King dismissed the Ministry be
cause of their refusal to pledge themselves never to reopen the
Catholic question, he began to write a diary, which he kept up
with more or less of regularity during the two following years : —
Wednesday, March 18, 1807. — The third reading of
the Solicitor-General's (Sir S. EomiUy's) Bill for making
the freehold estates of persons dying insolvent assets for
the payment of their simple contract debts. The landed
interest were much alarmed, and all the old topics of
the danger of innovation, the value of country gentle
men, the sanctity of family settlements, the antiquity of
the present law, were very strongly insisted upon. The
Master of the EoUs (Sir W. Grant) opposed the BiU in
a very long speech peculiarly calculated to raise doubt
and apprehension, and, like all his speeches that I have
ever heard, distinguished by the greatest apj)earance of

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 33
clearness and perspicuity. His statements are plain,
his deductions fine, but at the same time with a show
of soundness. WhUe he is speaking you think that he
is completely laying open the depths of the subject ; but
when he has finished, and the mind comes to consider
what he has said, it finds that none of his inferences can
be brought to bear fairly and satisfactorily upon the
point, and that aU his powers of reasoning have only
served more effectually to perplex and embarrass the
question. The Solicitor-General made, in my opinion,
a most clear and satisfactory reply, as it certainly was
not difficult for him to do. I entered the House with
the fullest intention of speaking, and, as I thought,
having sufficiently considered the subject. Many ex-
ceUent opportunities offered themselves, but my resolu
tion always failed me, which I have bitterly regretted
ever since. The BiU was rejected — sixty-nine to forty-
seven — the majority having in it many landed proprie
tors, either in possession or expectancy ; a most dis
graceful division, and one which reaUy hurt and morti
fied me deeply, as I could see no plausible argument ab
inconvenienti, of which nature aU the arguments urged
against the BiU were, and if there had been strong
arguments of that nature urged, I never can think that
they ought to prevaU against the glaring injustice of the
law as it at present stands.
Previous to this debate Lord Howick^ stated that
he should not move the second reading of the Bill
enabling his Majesty to grant commissions in the army
to dissenters from the Established Church, which stood
for to-morrow; the consequence of which, he said, would
1 Lord Howick is, of course, the Refoi-m Premier, Earl Grey. On the
death of Fox he became Foreign Secretary and Leader of the House of
Commons.

84 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
be that the order would drop, and he had nothing to
say at present respecting the intention of renewing it.
It is generally understood that the present Administra
tion are to be removed as soon as their successors can
be fixed upon. The Duke of Portland is to be the head
of the new Ministry. . . .
Saturday, April 25. — Having omitted to note down
daily the events which have occurred during • the last
month, I must try to bring them up to the present day
as well as I can from recoUection, although in this
manner the great use, or rather the particular amusing
character of a journal, which arises from its preserving
the more minute and fugitive occurrences, and the
immediate impressions produced upon the mind by
transactions at the time of their taking place, is ahnost
entirely lost.
Here follows a long and very clear account of the well-
known circumstances attending the resignation of Lord Gran
ville's Ministry.
I must here remark upon the facts above stated,
which are admitted on all hands to be correct, that
even if we admit that up to the period of the despatches
from Ireland containing the proceedings with the Catho
lic deputies at Dublin the King was not aware of the
extent to which the Catholic disabilities were intended
to be removed — which in candour must be admitted,
since Lord Sidmouth (as he says), and Lord Howick
himself, certainly, were not aware of it — even if -we
admit, as we are further called to do, that after Lord
Homck's despatch of March 2, written expressly for
the purpose of calling his attention to it, he still, in
consequence of unusual inadvertence, misunderstood
the nature of the measure ; if we make both these ad-

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 35
missions, the last of which I cannot but consider is a
very large one, if we recollect how alive and awake his
attention according to all accounts is to every tliino-
connected with this subject, it is still as impossible for
me to believe that in the conversation with Lord Howick
on March 4 he did clearly express his decided disappro
bation of that measure, and if he did not, it is more
impossible for me to believe that he intended to do so.
That he expressed a general dislike and disapprobation.
Lord Howick says himself; but that he expressed it in
such a manner as he afterwards stated himself to Lord
GrenviUe to have done — namely, in a manner calculated
to impress on Lord Howick's mind that he had with
drawn the consent which he had only given under a
mistake, and that he never could be induced to con
cur in the measure as it stood — is in my opinion ren
dered highly improbable, not only by the readiness
with which Lord Howick apprehends the meaning of
what is addressed to him, but more particularly by the
clearness with which his Majesty is known, Avhen he
chooses, to express himself. The short history of the
matter is, that he was determined upon the first oppor
tunity to get rid of an Administration which acted upon
principles and maxims which it has been the study of
his reign to counteract and destroy. He had not, how
ever, at the time of his conversation with Lord Howick
on March 4 determined upon taking the step of dis
missing them ; by Wednesday, March 11, he was pre
pared to take that step, and on that day he declared
to Lord GrenviUe his determination to resist the BU],
expectino- that Lord GrenviUe would persevere, and
upon tha" ground resign. In this hope he was disap
pointed by the Ministers determining to give up the
BiU • but stiU the resolution to get rid of them was

86 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
formed, and the opportunity arising from the reserva
tion with which they properly and necessarily acconi-
panifed this consent to abandon the Bill was eagerly
seized to make upon them a demand with which no
man of any party whatsoever has yet said that, con
sistently with their duty, they could have complied.
On Thursday, April 9, Mr. Brand moved a resolution
in the House of Commons to the effect that it would be
highly criminal in any Counsellors of his Majesty to
fetter their own discretionary power of offering advice
to the Crown" by any stipulation or engagement what
soever, and I seconded the motion. . . . The debate,
as far as I recollect, went on very well until Mr. Grrat-
tan led the House away from the subject immediately-
brought under its consideration by making not a very
good speech almost entirely upon the Catholic question
and the state of Ireland. This roused Dr. Duigenan,^
who immediately uttered one of his dull, heavy attempts
at a philippic against the Catholics. Wliat most dis
tinguished the debate upon the whole was the speech of
Mr. Plunket, the late Attorne3r-General for Ireland,
which was at once clear, powerful, moderate and elo
quent, delivered in a modest and impressive manner,
and distinguished by some forcible appeals arising from
the circumstances of the moment. . . . Perceval repHed
to Plunket, but very faintly and not with half the spirit
which he used to exhibit on the other side of the House.^
.Sir S. Eomilly, I think, foUowed him, and soon after
Lord Howick, who seemed, as weU as Perceval, to have
lost both spirit and force by the change in his situation,
although such a change as he has experienced has
' Dr. Duigenan was champion of the Orange interest in the House.
° Mr. Perceval was Chancellor of the Exchequer and Leader of the
House of Commons.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 37
generally been found to produce a different effect. Mr.
Canning made a speech of some ability, but pettish,
querulous, and Uttle, beyond his usual pettishness, que-
rulousness, and Uttleness. The House being clamorous
for the question when he rose, he began by saying that
it was their duty to hear him ; he held aU the unjusti
fiable language the use of which was, as far as I know,
introduced in the House of Commons by Mr. Pitt, saying
that, though there might be a majority against him, he
should stiU retain his situation, and thus defying and
setting at nought the constitutional power of the House
of Commons with the most evident arrogance, entirely
unsupported by any dignity. He concluded his speech,
which had been throughout founded upon the notion
that by the present question the King himself was, as it
were, personally put upon his trial, by saying that, even
if his Majesty should be condemned at the bar of that
House, it was still some consolation that from that sen
tence lay an appeal to the people, which under certain
circumstances he should think it his duty to make.
The indecency of this threat produced a loud and in
dignant clamour in the House, but it is generally thought
that its import had a strong effect upon the division.
Lord Henry Petty ^ rephed to Canning, but I was too
much fatigued to listen to him. At half-past six in the
morning the House divided, when there appeared for
the original motion 226, for reading the other orders of
the day, which had been moved early in the debate
by Mr Osborne, the member for Bedfordshire, 258 ;
Ministers having employed their time so well during
1 Tnrd Henry Petty had been Chancellor of the Exchequer m the
Talents Administration. It is, perhaps, hardly necessary to say that he
laiems a Marquess of Lansdowne, and a most important mem-
f^'-f X!^ Melbourne, Russell, Aberdeen, and first Palmerston
her of tne <jj.bj,
Cabinets.

38 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the recess as to have obtained in the House of Commons,
in which whilst in opposition they could hardly muster
sixty or seventy, a majority of 82 with so large an atten
dance. So little was this event expected by the friends of
the late Ministers, even at the time of the division, that
Lord Howick addressed the members in the Lobby, and
stated to them that if the present motion was carried,
which he had great hopes it was, he should think it was
his duty to move an address to the King for the removal
of the present Ministers. Upon this occasion Mr. Bragge
Bathurst,^ whose speech I have omitted to mention
before, declared that the motion was neither more nor
less than a censure upon the King's personal conduct,
and broached the doctrine, I believe unheard of before
that day, that not only the King of this country may
act constitutionally without any advisers, but that there
are certain occasions, such as the interval between the
dismissal of one set of Ministers and the appointment of
another, in which he must so act. If this be admitted,
it leads either to the absurdity that in a free govern
ment there may be acts of the executive power for
which no one is responsible, or to the unconstitutional
conclusion that the King himself is amenable. With
this doctrine, so completely subversive of the very foun
dations of our government, Mr. Bathurst led away his
band of the adherents of Lord Sidmouth, whose acces
sion to office at the formation of the late Administration
had been the circumstance which had exposed it to the
greatest share of the obloquy and reproach which fell
upon it. This transaction affords another illustration
of the great political and moral truth, that those by
whose friendship and alliance you are dishonoured and
' Lord Sidmouth's brother-in-law, the ' brother Bragge ' of the Anti-
Jacobin.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 80
degraded are sure to be the first to abandon and betray
you. On Friday Mr. Lyttelton gave notice that on Wed
nesday, April 15, he should make a motion relative to
the change which had taken place in his Majesty's
councils, and on the last-mentioned day he accordingly
moved a resolution to that effect. . . . The order of
the day was moved by Mr. Milnes,^ the member for
Pontefract, a young man of only two-and-twenty years,
in a speech of great fluency, facUity, and dexterity, but
more remarkable in my opinion, who disagree with him,
for a manner and tone so perfectly Parliamentary as to
be surprising in so young a speaker than for depth or
force of argument. The greatest blemish of it was
that it wanted that which is the nerve and soul and
marrow of a speech — real truth and integrity ; and one
short sentence, in which he said he was at heart a
warm friend to Catholic concession, took away the
whole foundation from under the superstructure which
the rest of his speech was labouring to erect. This
effort, however, caused a great sensation both in the
House and with the public, and the greatest hopes are
naturaUy conceived of the author of it. Mr. Ward ^
spoke next, and delivered a speech which, notwithstand
ing the general good opinion of his abihties, I believe
few expected from him. It struck me as quite the
speech of a debater — powerful, animated, and fall of the
most pointed sarcasm and attack. Towards the end he
adverted with proper severity to the measure of recall
ing Lord MelviUe to the Privy Council ; but though a
1 qij^e father of the late Lord Houghton, generahy known as ' Orator '
^^'^^ The gifted and eccentric Lord Dudley, a personal friend; of William
Lamb's.

40 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
similar remark, which had fallen from Sir S. EomiUy in
the former debate, had been taken up with considerable
warmth by Sir P. Murray, Lady MelviUe's brother-in-
law, no notice was taken by any one person upon the
Ministerial side of the House of what Ward said upon
this occasion, although it was much more pointed and
direct. . . . The Master of the EoUs rose about half-
past five o'clock in the morning. He waived the question
whether the King can act without responsible advisers
or not, but he strongly blamed the last Administration
for making public what had passed between the King
and themselves, and said that it was a novelty in Parlia
mentary history that the grounds upon which a monarch
had dismissed a Ministry should be made known to the
House, and still more so that they should be made in it
a subject of debate and discussion. He surely forgot
that in case Ministers are dismissed on account of
measures which they advise to be taken, by bringing
forward those measures in Parliament they may always
and have often brought into discussion the actual
grounds upon which his Majesty was advised to dismiss
them. If in the present instance they had been dis
missed for persevering with the BiU in question, the
agitation of that Bill would necessarily have occa
sioned the conduct and motives of his Majesty to be
discussed in Parliament. But when, as the case is,
they are dismissed for resistance to an unconstitutional
act done either by the King of his own mind or at the
suggestion of others, it is impossible to bring such act
under the view or the consideration of Parliament ni
the regular arid preferable mode of agitating a public
question. ('Black. Com.' i. 243-246.) The'case is of
so fundamental a nature as to require and justify the
direct interj)osition of the House of Commons ; but such

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 41
IS the exceUence of the constitution in its theory, that
even this extreme case might have been redressed with
out such direct interposition, without in the slightest
degree infringing upon the prerogative of the Crown. . . .
The House divided about six o'clock in the morning —
244 for the orders of the day, 198 against them and for
the original resolution.
In the meantime, on Monday, April 13, the Mar
quess of Stafford had moved in the House of Lords a
resolution containing the import of both of those which
I have mentioned as having been moved in the House
of Commons. I was present for some time, but it was
so hot that I could not stay. It was a very able,
Strom?, and animated debate. At six o'clock the House
divided — 171 for the motion of adjournment, 90 against
it and for the resolution. Upon this occasion Lord
Selkirk — who had always been considered one of the
firmest adherents of the late Administration, and bound
to them by the fastest of all ties, inclination, turn of
thought, and similarity of principle — as if determined
to justify the popular reproaches cast out against his
country, went over at once to the new Ministry, in con
sequence, as it is said, of some miserable difference
with their predecessors about the interest and patronage
of a Scotch county.
Sunday, 26iA.— It is generally known this morn
ing (and was, indeed, known last night) that the
pr'^sent Parliament, which met for the first time on
Monday, December 16 last, is to be prorogued to
morrow and dissolved the next day, having sat little
more than four months. The dissolution of the last
Parhament, which was chosen in the summer of 1802,
after' four' sessions, because the Ministers thought
the - did not command a sufficient majority in it, was

42 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
reprobated as a corrupt and unjustifiable exercise of the
prerogative by those very persons who have advised
the present measure upon exactly similar grounds,
though in very dissimilar circumstances. It will, how
ever, answer their purpose. In addition to all the
strength which the Treasury influence obtains equally
for everjr Administration, I have no doubt that the cry
of ' No Popery,' ' Church and King,' &c., will carry many
of the popular elections, and thus they will gain a large
majority in the ensuing Parliament.
I dined at Lord Grenville's with Lord Howick, Coke
of Norfolk, Sir A. Pigott, Sir S. Eomilly, Ward, Lyttel
ton, Nicholson Calvert, Sir W. Lemon, Sir George
Cornwall, Tierney, Preemantle, Trevanion, and some
others. A large computation of the number of mem^
bers who will vote with us in the new Parliament.
Monday, 27th. — This morning was employed by the
Committee of Finance in preparing a report of the
transactions at the Pay Office which have come out in
the course of their enquiries.^ . . . But the labour of
the morning was all in vain. As soon as the Speaker
began to count the House, Mr. Giles, who had been
appointed Chairman (Mr. Bankes having, after studiously
deferring the making of this report, gone into the
country this morning), standing at the Bar with the re
port in his hand, the Usher of the Black Eod knocked
at the door, and summoned that House to attend his
Majesty in the House of Peers, where the Speech was
read from the Throne, and the session concluded by
prorogation. With respect to the Speech it is enough
to say of it, as Lord Howick did say, that the whole
transaction had begun in the most foul and shameless
' A no-w forgotten scandal connected with army contracts.

FIRST YEARS IX PARLIAMENT 43
calumnies, and had ended in the grossest and most con
temptible hypocrisy.
Tuesday, 2Sth. — No news, and nothing stirring but
preparations for elections on all hands. For the credit
of the good sense of the country the cry of ' No Popery '
seems to be strong, and our friends weak everywhere.
Saturday, May 2. — I heard from Mr. Adam that as
Lord William Eussell's and Lord Henry Petty 's elections,
the former in the county of Surrey, the latter for the
University of Cambridge, were insecure,^ the Duke of
Bedford could not promise certainly to bring me into
Parliament. Wednesday, loth. — I left London for Brocket HaU,
having settled my election for the borough of Port-
arlingtou in Ireland. With respect to the general result
of the elections, the weight of power and property in
Opposition is so great that a considerable number of the
friends of the late Administration must be returned, and
perhaps upon this occasion they feel the advantage
arising from there being a certain number of seats
which are not bestowed exactly according to popular
opinion. The clamour against Popery has already had
the effect of deciding the elections in many boroughs,
and although there has not been as yet any manifesta
tion of its power in a county, yet I am very apprehen
sive that strencrthened as it is by other circumstances of
unponullrity, Ft wiU prevail against Lord W. EusseU in
SarreV and in Middlesex against Mr. Byng. The only
o-leam 'of public favour which has shone upon us has
been at Norwich, where Mr. Fellowes was turned out
and Mr W Smith chosen upon the express ground of
the former having voted against Mr. Lyttelton's motion.
i,^wpver returned, defeating Lord Althorp and Lord
1 Petty was, howe^ci,
Palmerston.

44 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Mr. Bragge Bathurst, who had been the most decided
enemy of the Bill in question, and the most steady
maintainer of what he stated to be the rights of the
prerogative, and certainly the most effectual supporter
of the present Administration, was received by the mob
at Bristol with hissings, hootings, and peltings, and
abused from one end of the town to the other as a most
determined abettor of Popery, if not himself an obstinate
Papist. It is impossible not to laugh at this bhndness,
ignorance, and fury ; at the same time it is also impossible
not to be struck with the most serious alarm upon the
subject. January 1, 1808. — On the first Parliament met, in
a situation of affairs growing as usual more and more
alarming, after a recess crowded with events, some of
them calamitous, some of them subjects of consolation,
but all of them strongly indicating the lost condition of
the Continent and a crisis most alarming to this coun
try. The expedition against Denmark, the hostility of
Eussia, the departure of the Eussian and Austrian
Ministers, after a fruitless attempt at mediation on the
part of the latter, the Orders in Council, and the dis
putes with America, were all mentioned in a more or
less explicit manner in his Majesty's Speech. . . . But
what more particularly engaged the attention of both
Houses was the unexpected demand upon the part of
his Majesty's Ministers of a vote of approbation of the
expedition to Copenhagen, without laying any of the
papers relating to it before the House, and this, too,
accompanied with the acknowledgment that they were
not in possession of the secret articles of Tilsit, that^
they were in possession of information of the nature
and substance of those articles, that they could not lay
it before the House without betraying the source from

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 45
which it was derived, and consequently exposing the
persons concerned to the vengeance of Bonaparte and
precluding the country from all chance of future infor
mation through the same or any other channel. . . .
Mr. Ponsonby, who upon this occasion began his career
as leader of the Opposition in a sensible speech, as I
thought (I believe it is generally considered rather
inadequate to the situation which he is to fiU),^ gave
notice that he should take an opportunity of moving
for the papers respecting the expedition, which motion
is since fixed for next Monday sennight. To this Can
ning replied that he might move for some papers, the
granting of which he should not oppose, but that
with respect to the secret information of the articles of
Tilsit, in his judgment he (Mr. Ponsonby) would never
have ocular conviction of it. I think this a circum
stance much to be lamented, as it confirms Bonaparte
in his assertion that no such secret engagements were
signed, and must confirm every person in England or
on the Continent who was before wavering in a con
demnation of the expedition and of the nation which
can sanction it. A short debate took place upon the
bringing up of the report of the Address, which was
made remarkable by a stronger justification of the ex
pedition by Mr. Yorke than any which had been made
the night before by the Ministers themselves, and by a
beautiful answer to Mr. Yorke's speech by Mr. Wind
ham, who spoke most admirably both nights, and placed
in the strongest point of view possible the immorality
and the impoUcy of the measure.
1 Even this qualified praise was changed for the worse later on.
' Remarkable instances in my time of the want of yi-S^i a-eavTov. Lord
Chatham, when he sought after the command of the expedition to
Waloheren ; Mr. Ponsonby, when he undertook to be leader of the Opposi
tion in the House of Commons.'

46 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Sunday, 2Uh. — I went to St. James's Church in the
evening and heard Dr. Andrews preach. Both his
m-inner and language very plain, forcible, and impres
sive, his doctrines rather strong and dogmatical.^
Monday, 2bth. — Mr. Bankes moved for leave to bring
in the Bill, which was lost last year in the Lords, to
prevent the granting of offices in reversion. He was
opposed only by Mr. W. Dundas, upon the ground of
its violating the King's prerogative. Strange the aver
sion and abhorrence to everything in the shape of re
form entertained by everything of the name of Dundas.
Saturday, 2>Qth. — I dined at the King of Clubs, and
agreed to be put up to be balloted for.^
' Here is a somewhat later estimate of the preaching of the Established
Church : ' The eloquence of our pulpit is dull and uninteresting either to
hear or to read. Deprived as it is of the high and warm tone of enthusi
astic devotion which belongs to the Catholics and to the Methodists, it is
reduced either to dry reasoning or to the enforcement of moral duties.
The former for evident reasons has attractions only for a few, and the
latter topic in the hands of our teachers is without force or point, because
their discourses are without truth. They are not great representatives of
human nature, and, therefore, men have no sympathy with them. They
are compelled always to diminish merit and to exaggerate defect. They
are always employed in holding up before our eyes a standard of
excellence which everyone feels and knows to be ideal, and in painting
faults in colours so dark and dreadful that not even the conscience of a
sinner can admit them to be just and true. They are like unskilful -writers
of novels who draw characters entirely virtuous or entirely vicious. The
consequence is there is no delusion, because there is no semblance of
reality, and the reader is entirely indifferent both to their actions and
their fate.'
' The King of Clubs was founded in 1801 by a group of friends who
were in the habit of meeting at Mackintosh's house — Rogers, John Allen,
Robert Smith, Scarlett, and ' Conversation ' Sharpe. To these were soon
added Romilly and Sydney Smith, and afterwards Lord Lansdowne, Lord
Cowper, Lord Holland, Brougham, Person, Jeffrey, LuttreU, Horner,
Hallam, Bicardo, and several others. They met for a monthly dinner at
the ' Crown and Anchor ' in the Strand, at which the talk was exclusively
literary. William Lamb was probably the guest of his brother-in-law.
Lord Cowper, with whom he had been dining on the previous niglit.
Though presumably elected, he does not seem to have been a very
assiduous member of the club.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT. 47
Sunday, 81s^.— I dined at Nugent's with Ward,
Brougham, LuttreU, and Sydney Smhh, and went in the
evening to a meeting of the Opposition members of the
House of Commons at Lord FitzwiUiam's, at which Mr.
Ponsonby stated the motion which he is to make on
Wednesday next for papers respecting the expedition
to Copenhagen. Wednesday, February 3. — Long debate upon Pon-
sonby's motion for the production of papers relative
to the expedition to Copenhagen. Canning's reply very
brilliant, but, as usual, false and inconclusive. He
completely kept out of sight the secret articles of Tilsit,
and rested the case entirely upon the general situation
of Europe and hostile mind of Denmark. To prove the
latter point he read part of a letter from Mr. Garlicke,
the King's Minister at Copenhagen, to Lord Grey, when
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, with part of the
answer, and also a letter from Lord Hutchinson written
soon after the peace of Tilsit.^ Great part of his speech
was also employed in charging upon the late Ministers
similar principles and intentions to those the execution
of whicli they now attack in the cases of Turkey and
Portuo-al. The best reply to this was made in a short
speech by Bragge Bathurst. The debate was dull and
lasted till six in the morning. Upon the division the
numbers were 253 against the motion and 108 for it.
Wednesday, 11th, and Thursday,lSth.— l)eha.ie u-pon
the second reading for carrying into effect the Orders
in CouncU. Lord H. Petty made the best speech I
heard him deliver, and indeed such a one as would
have done honour to anybody. The division— 94 to
214_worse on our part than I expected.
, T, rd Hutchinson, afterwards Earl of Donoughmore, had been sent
on an e°xtraorainary mission to the Court of St. Petersburg.

48 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Many rumours afloat to-day. In the first place, that
the King had made known to Canning that he much
disapproved of his conduct in reading the despatches in
the House of Commons. This report was much con
firmed by Canning's manner during the debate, and I
am sure from it of this, that there is something in agi
tation which displeases him. In the second place, that
the King has expressed his wish that the Danish fleet
might be kept for the purpose of restitution ; and this
report I also think rendered probable by the moderate
tone adopted by Ministers in the House of Lords.
These reports naturally gave rise to others that over
tures were making to Lord Sidmouth to come into Ad
ministration.^ Time will show.
Friday, l^th. — Canning has swallowed the pill, what
ever it was, or his swallowing it has not been insisted
upon, for he is all smiles and smoothness to-day.
Eumours, however, respecting Lord Sidmouth stiU
continue. Monday, 22nd. — Last night died Lord Lake of an in
flammation upon his lungs. ^ He was esteemed a most
gallant officer. He had but lately returned from India,
where as Commander-in-Chief -he had amassed a suffi
cient sum both to relieve himself from his large gaming
debts at home and to place him in a state of affluence
for the remainder of his life. He was one of the earliest
friends of the Prince of Wales, who was deeply affected
at his death.
We now find him intensely interested in the progress of the
war in Spain, collecting information from all quarters, and
describing at great length the military operations. Among his
informants is his relative, Mr. Huskisson. It will be observed
' Lord Sidmouth did not join the Administration until 1812.
^ The conqueror of the Mahrattas at Allighur and Laswaree.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 49
rated^'' ^''^''^ admiration of Napoleon has long since evapo-
_ November 30.— I this morning finished an imitation
m verse of a short chorus out of the 'Prometheus' of
^schylus, beginning at the verse 519 of that play.
_ December 6.— The newspapers of yesterday con
tained two buUetins from the French army in Spain :
the one dated from Vittoiia November 9, and pub
lished in Paris November 17, the oth(5r from Burgos
the 12th, and pubhshed in Paris the 19th of the same
month. They agree exactly, I believe, with the Spanish
accounts with respect to the days of battle and the
advance of their arms, but differ widely in their state
ments of the amount of force opposed to them, and the
number both of their own and of their antagonists'
kiUed and wounded. In the latter of these papers is
the foUowing passage : ' The army of the insurgents
exhibited the most singular contrast (that is, to their
own). In the pockets of the officers who were kiUed
were found lists of companies having some of them the
name of the " Company of Brutus," and some of them
the " Company of the People." ' It is said, I know not
how truly or upon what authority, that during the
beginning of the Eevolution in France, when it was the
fashion for the most violent democrats to assume the
names of ancient patriots, this name of Brutus was the
very one for which, in order to mark his republican
ardour, Bonaparte changed Napoleon, the present family
name of half the monarchs of Europe. At any rate,
whether this be true or not, it is curious enough to see
in a French public paper circumstances held up to
ridicule which, whether they be facts or only invented
for poUtical purposes and to alarm the nobUity and
property of Spain with terrors of Eevolution, are grave

50 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
and sober and quiet compared to the mummeries and
extravagancies of the same Eevolution which but a few
years ago were universally exhibited in all the principal
cities of France. . . . The rest of these papers consist
of nothing but ridicule and abuse of the Spaniards, and
the most contemptuous mention of the English. These
are the arms which, in addition to his own consummate
generalship, the experienced skill of his commanders,
and the veteran valour of his troops, he uses with great
dexterity. All his great success he represents as
achieved with the most trifling loss, undervalues and
laughs at the prowess of his antagonists, and employs
every art that can invigorate the hopes of his adhe
rents and strike despondency into the hearts of his
enemies . . .
It appears by the published despatches that Bona
parte has Dutch troops with him in Spain ; the con
tingents of the German Princes are to march to the
coast of France, and a levy of 12,000 men is ordered
in the kingdom of Italy. When one contemplates his
resources, when one thinks of how many rich and
populous countries he wields the power and the
strength, it is impossible not to tremble, not only for
the fate of Spain, but for the final issue of the contest.
'EacreTai rjjxap, &C.^
December 11. — No further news from Spain. . . .
If the great contest for the independence of Spain is
lost, as it probably will be, it is evident that the failure
must be in a great measure attributed to our ill-judged
and ineffectual aid. Defeats such as the Spaniards
have received were to be expected. After the former
' From the Iliad, iv. 164 ; ' For the day shall come when sacred
Ilion shall perish, and Priam, and the people of Priam with the good
ashen spear.'

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 61
exploits of Bonaparte, no reverse could be so sudden or
so complete as to excite surprise in any person of com
mon sense and coolness. But this blow, as it is, has
not decided the struggle. StiU less would it have done
so if, instead of two bodies of 18,000 men each, cut off
from one another, and each of them divided into parties
scattered at great distances, we could now oppose to
him almost upon any point a compact army of 35,000
men, whose operations, skilfully conducted, might en
gage his attention, embarrass his advance, and give the
Spaniards time to recover from the stun which they
have received.^ I do not think, even if the circum
stances were in this state, they would redound to the
credit of this country, because aU the troops that were
intended to have been embarked before this news
arrived ought to have been upon the Continent long ago.
An army of 50,000 effective men ought to have been
long ago assembled, either in Galicia, if that had been
thought the most advantageous point to act from, as I
think it would have been, or in Portugal, if it had been
intended that the British troops should act as an army
of reserve, either to sustain the attack of the French
army and cover the retreat of the Spaniards if they
were beaten, or to reinforce them and foUow up their
success if they were victorious. It is in this latter way
only that the army of Sir John Moore could act, for no
man could think that the French would suffer him to
join the Spaniards before they attacked them. For the
first duty of an army of reserve — namely, to oppose itself
to a victorious army — this body was much too weak ;
1 The two columns commanded by Sir David Baird and Sir Jchn
Moore respectively. In an earHer entry William Lamb had contrasted
the dilatory nature of the English efforts in Spain with the decisive manner
in which the expedition to Copenhagen was executed.

52 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
arid it ought to have been considered that it was much
more probable that it would be called upon for the
discharge of that duty than for any other. Our con
duct must cover our councils with disgrace in the eyes
of aU Europe. Our retreat, abandoning the Spaniards
to their fate, must dispirit them to the last degree, and
give strength, currencj^ and an air of truth to aU the
invectives of the French against us.
With respect to the conduct of the Spaniards them
selves, they certainly behaved, in every battle of which
we know the circumstances, with great spirit and reso
lution ; but it is a matter of surprise to everybody that,
with the determination to resist which has been given
out to prevail throughout the country, and with the
time they have had to prepare, they have not been able
to oppose larger armies to those of the enemy. . . .
If this arose only from remissness and want of exertion,
and a notion that after the first success the whole battle
was gained, the fault may perhaps be yet in a measure
repaired, though much good cannot be reasonably ex
pected while those persons who could be deluded by
such a chimera remain at the head of affairs. If the
insurrection is not so general in Spain as we have been
taught to believe, if many of the inhabitants are un
willing to run any hazard or to make any exertion for
i'ldependence, the case is certainly worse. Bonaparte
had then in the first instance only a party to contend
with, and his successes will soon procure him assistance
and adherents. But the most fatal and desperate, and
perhaps not the least likely, supposition of all is, that
the thinness of the ranks proceeds from the choice of
the leaders and the nobility themselves — from their fear
of the consequences of the victory of their country, if
that victory should be achieved by armies composed of

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT

63

the mass of the people and led by officers promoted by
their own desert.
Wlien Chamfort was upbraided with the crimes that
attended the beginning of the troubles in France he is
said to have answered, 'Eh bien ! voulez-vous une
revolution k la rose ? ' Now there is truth and meaning
m the saying, although not enough to excuse the deeds
to which it was applied, and of that truth and meaning
Spain, ever since the Constitution of the Central Junta,
seems to have lost sight. They seem to have thought
that they could have a revolution with perfect order
and tranquiUity, a revolution upon the plan of ours in
1688. The transactions in England are an exceUent
model for similar circumstances ; but it must be recol
lected that things could not have been carried on as
they were if Louis XIV., with an army of 100,000 men,
had occupied the passes into the country and the
strongest fortresses. The only two measures of internal
regulation which I have as yet heard of as being adopted
by the Central Junta are the restraining the liberty of
the Press and the permitting the return of the Jesuits.
The first, where all the enthusiasm of the people and
all the means of exciting it are peremptorily required,
cannot be good ; and for the second, although the ex
pulsion of the Jesuits from Spain might originally have
been unjust, it is not easy to see the advantage of
placing it in the very front of a change which, if it is
to do anything for the country worthy of mention, must
totally subvert and destroy aU the principles and modes
of poHcy which have influenced the Court of Spain
since the accession of Philip II.
Monday, 12th. — So no newspapers. If Bonaparte
should unfortunately succeed in subjugating Spain and
placing his brother upon the throne of that country.

51 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
what wiU be the effects of that event upon the present
situation of England, considered with respect to her
external, interests and the great contest in which she is
engaged for her existence as an independent nation ?
In the first place, it is in everybody's mouth that the
Spanish colonies will be immediately separated from the
mother-country, will be at peace with and will carry on
a free, or at least an advantageous, trade with England.
Now certainly the evident interest of the Spanish and
American colonies, their extent, opulence, and power,
and the known desire of many in them for emancipation,
make this, I will admit, the most probable result. But,
at the same time, I cannot help fearing that it is being
much too sanguine to anticipate it as certain. Against
the causes which I have enumerated above there must
be set the influence of the French party ; the dexterity
of the emissaries of Bonaparte ; the natural wish which
all native Spaniards must feel to preserve the empire
entire under whatever king may be established in
Europe ; habits of long nominal obedience ; the great
reluctance with which all who have been accustomed
to serve make any effort to cast off their yoke, unless
that yoke is rendered intolerable by the policy of their
masters ; the difficulty which there will be in settling an
independent government, the dissensions and parties to
Avliich that question will give rise, and the adroit advan-
lage which will be taken of those dissensions by the
French Government at Madrid, — all these considerations
make the point at least doubtful, though certainly I
incline to the opinion that the colonies will erect them
selves into a separate empire. If the contrary should
unfortunately happen, England will be left in that re
spect much in the same situation as that in which she
stood before the explosion in Sjiain. Because, though

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 55
It wiU no doubt be the prime object of the Spanish
GovernmejLt, acting under the control of France, to
exclude from the American colonies all goods of Enghsh
manufacture, yet it must be recoUected that the mother-
country, if she can govern at aU, must govern, as she
long has, by sufferance as it were, and with a light
hand, and she maybe able to work upon the prejudices
of the colonists— prejudices no doubt inflamed by the
ill-judged expedition to Buenos Ayres — so far as to
induce them not to grant any further privileges to our
commerce ; yet she wiU hardly be able to prevail upon
them to forego the advantage of any indirect existing
trade by which these articles are imported for con
sumption. An article in the Edinburgh Iieciew, ' written, I suppose, by
Brougham,' is the text for the following speculations : —
I should fear that the unfortunate issue of the in
surrection, if unfortunate it is to be, will do more
towards entirely extinguishing in the mind of the age
the faint and hardly living embers of the love of free
dom, than all the splendour of the first successes of the
patriots and aU the praises of their virtue and valour
wiU towards reviving and rekindling them into a
flame. I cannot help considering it as a proof of the
weakness of the general wish in Europe for emancipa
tion that, notwithstanding the encouragement of the
example of Spain, notwithstanding the length of her
resistance (for long it must be called in comparison
with the late wars which the nations of Europe have
wao-ed against France), notwithstanding the cheering
and crlorious aspect of her cause, no one corresponding
movement has taken place in any one of the numerous
d formerly spirited countries which are new sub-

66 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
jected to France, no one attempt has been made to take
advantage of so favourable an opportunity. . . . What
a spectacle does the present state of Europe display to
the eye of any man who is at all acquainted with her
previous history ! Switzerland and HoUand, both of
which cast off the yoke of the House of Austria ; the
Netherlands, which so recently asserted their rights
against the same family ; Italy, so often contended for
and never before reduced — all silent and tranquil under
the new domination of France. What is the cause of
this phenomenon ? It cannot be all effected by terror
and force. I have never met with any correct infor
mation upon the conduct of the governments which
Bonaparte substitutes in the place of those he subverts ;
but, as they could hardly be administered in such a
manner as to make those that preceded them be re
gretted, so I much suspect that the improvement is so
great as to be very sensibly and gratefully felt.-' The
Edinburgh Review says : ' He must rule Spain with a
light rod, because he knows that there is no other
chance of ruling her long.' But does he rule anywhere
with a heavy sceptre ? He gives his soldiers plunder
in the moment of victory, he levies contributions, which
fall with the greatest weight upon the higher orders ;
but on the other hand he represses all disorder, he ad-
niinisters prompt and satisfactory justice, he does away
with the enormous and galling privileges of the nobility
and clergy. All these would be more precious and more
rare boons to Spain than even to any other country
which he has yet overrun. . . . The Spaniards are a
proud and high-spirited people, and will soon learn not
onlj^ to endure but to cherish a government which
^ This was certainly true so far as the smaller states of Germany were
concerned, and it is a most acute observation.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 67
protects and elevates them, and to bear with cheerful
ness burdens which they see are employed with vigour
and skUl for the purpose of renewing their former
triumphs and restoring to them their place among
the nations.
December 13. — The Courier of yesterday morning,
which is said, I know not with what truth, to be a
good deal under Canning's direction, has an able article
strongly and justly censuring the late mihtary mea
sures in Spain. Lord Melville is expected at Wimble
don the end of this month. These are slight grounds
to form even a conjecture upon, but is it totally im
probable that an attempt should be made to turn Lords
Castlereagh and Hawkesbury out, or at least to remove
them from the situations they now hold, and to take
Lords Melville and Wellesley in ? The country thinks
the two latter more able than the two former, and so
strength would be gained by the changes.-^ I doubt
whether there would be any advantage in it. I dare
say, now that the measures have failed, they will detect
very acutely and reprobate very forcibly the errors
which have been committed ; but I believe, if they
themselves had had the direction of affairs from the be
ginning, they would have been managed very much in
the manner in which they have been.
William Lamb next gives a long account of the proceed
ings of the Court of Enquiry into the conduct of Sir Harry
Burrard and Sir A. Wellesley, and the difference of opinion
which resulted in the unsatisfactory Convention of Ointra.
December 14. — It may be said that these are evils
to which every army is subject upon that most common
and most probable of all events, a difference arising
1 Lord Melville (Mr. Dundas) never returned to office, but Lord
-S^'ellesley became Foreign Secretary on December 6, 1809.

68 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
between the first and the second in command. I admit
it — difference of opinion is the bane of aU armies, and
more particularly, I apprehend, of armies unused to ser
vice, and most usual amongst inexperienced officers.
But this being the case, every care should be taken
to avoid and to guard against this evil, not, as in the
present case, to foment and produce it. A commander
should, of course, be the officer of whose sense and
courage the Minister who appoints him has the best
opinion ; but when appointed the utmost confidence
should be reposed in him, and the more he acts upon
his own single opinion with respect to the general plan
of operations to be pursued, the more likely, I believe,
will his enterprises be to succeed. All branches of exe
cutive government bear but ill diversity and change of
councils. In all of them plans prosper but ill if they
are begun by one hand and finished by another ; but
certainly, of all of them, the one which most imperiously
requires unity of design and unity of execution must
be war. December 15. — . . . But, as things are, unanimity,
energy, desperate courage, and patience that no suffer
ing could overcome might yet carry the cause. The
Spaniards seem in a great measure to have forgotten
the system upon which they gave out they -w^ould act —
to shun pitched battles, to harass the enemy with eter
nal skirmishes, to take strong positions in the mountains,
to exhaust the country before the hostile army, and to
trust to want, fatigue, and famine. Is this mode of war
fare practicable for any long space of time in the face
of such a general as Bonaparte ? and, if it be practicable,
are the Spaniards prepared to endure the hardships and
privations of it ? I do not mean to ask whether the
lower orders in Spain are so prepared, because I believe

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 59
them to be the most frugal people in the world ; but are
the nobility and persons of property resolved to aban
don their estates to the enemy, to give up their mode
of Uving, and to admit of no compromise which might
be offered them ? If they were, and if their afiairs were
conducted with the vigour and skill Avhich no doubt is to
be found somewhere amongst them, although they were
attacked by an enemy dexterous beyond anything in
the art of facilitating and making possible the march of
most numerous armies through the most difficult coun
tries, and possessed of power to second that dexterity
such as never before fell to the lot of mortal men — ^by
an enemy who never despatches 1,000 men except
under the command of a consummate officer, and whose
soldiers are flushed with his former triumphs and confi
dent ill his abilities, — though these are fearful odds that
are matched against them, yet still, such is my reliance
upon the energy of a whole people contending for their
independence that I should not despair of their success.
December 16. — . . . The combinations of Bonaparte
are not so easily frustrated, and it is to be observed
that it is his own ruling mind and the influence of his
presence which carries success along with it, for when
his armies are committed even to his most celebrated
officers they do not seem to be commanded much better
than those of other nations. This is proved in some
measure b}^ the campaign in Egypt, by the late campaign
in Portugal, but more especially by the campaign in
Spain before his arrival there, which, though it was
directed by some of his most distinguished generals,
such as Murat, Moncey, Bessieres, does not appear to
have been conducted with judgment, and certainly was
not attended with success.
\Villiam Lamb was now much exercised by the Orders in

00 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Council against the commerce of the United States, a question
upon which he had special information from Mr. Mansfield, who
was attached to the British Embassy at Washington.
December 23 and 24. — When Parliament meets the
correspondence between the two Governments . . . will
no doubt be produced, and we shall then be better able
to judge of the fairness of the above statements^ and
the justice of the reasonings. I should apprehend no
material misrepresentation would be found. I have no
doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer and his adviser,
Mr. Stephen, see with great regret any disposition to
concession upon the side of America, as it threatens
the permanence of their beloved system, according to
which they wildly hope, by the destruction of neutral
commerce, to strike a mortal blow at the power of
France, and reduce her to the same state of weakness
as at the conclusion of the war of 1756. This attach
ment to an opinion is met, I believe, by a corresponding
love of theory on the part of the President of the United
States, who sees the interruption of trade without regret
because he thinks it turns all the industry and capital
of his country to the improvement of agriculture. So
that while persons of such influence in the Governments
of their respective countries entertain sentiments in
favour of the present state of half-hostilitj^, there is
little hope of bringing the disputes between the two
nations to an amicable determination.
Canning's despatch is thereupon quoted in extenso.
The general reasoning employed appears to me to be
false. It is admitted that the American Government has
at different times represented the measure in different
' In the speech of President Jefferson on the opening of the American
Congress.

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 61
hghts,^ as an act of impartial hostility and as an act of
municipal regulation. Now it is evident that they were
fully justified in so doing, for the measure in fact in its
own nature bears the two characters— it was an act of
precaution against the violence of the two belhgerent
Powers, but it was clearly also an act of an unfriendly
nature towards each of those Powers. America may
fairly say, ' This is an internal regulation of my own,
against which you have no right to remonstrate, but it
is also detrimental, as I think, to your interests, and
therefore I may fairly offer to you the withdrawing of
it as a price of some concession upon my part. It is, of
course, for you to judge of the value of the proffer,
but I do not reason incorrectly in making it. The
violence with which you are compelled to resist the
violence of France compels me to adopt a restriction
of police, which is in my opinion injurious to your
trade. Mitigate your violence towards me and I will
withdraw my restriction, as far as it regards you. This
is my proposition ; reject it if you please, but do not
let me be answered with a sort of ostentation of logical
distinctions, as if I had placed a point in two lights
when it wiU only bear to be viewed in one.' The letter
goes on to state the determination of France to attack
the existence of Great Britain through its commercial
prosperity ; and then, in a strain, as it strikes me, of
coarse, bad irony, that ' by some unfortunate circum
stances, without any hostile intention, the American em
bargo did come in aid of the blockade of the European
Continent,' &c., &c., precisely at the most critical
moment. ' The struggle,' it proceeds, ' has been viewed
bv other Powers not without an apprehension that it
"aht be fatal to this country. The British Government
Vi ^ not disguised from itself that the trial of such an

C2 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
experiment might be arduous and long, though it has
never doubted of the final issue. But if that issue be
such as the British Government had confidently antici
pated — if the blockade of the Continent, as it has been
triumphantly styled by the enemy, is raised even before
it had been well established, and if that system, of which
the extent and continuity were the vital principles, is
broken up into fragments utterly harmless and con
temptible, — it is nevertheless important in the highest
degree to the reputation of this country (a reputation
which constitutes a great part of her strength) that this
disappointment of her enemies should not have been
purchased by any concession ; that not a doubt should
remain to distant times of her determination and of her
ability to have continued her resistance ; and that no
step that could even be mistakenly construed into con
cession should be taken on her part while the smaUest
link of the confederacy remains undissolved, or while it
can be a question whether the plan devised for her
destruction has or has not either completely failed or
been unequivocally abandoned.' This surely is absolute
Quixotism. Those who go to the furthest in their
assertion of the paramount importance of national
honour, and who would most readily adopt the sentiment
that ' reputation constitutes a great part of the strength
of a people ' — a sentiment rather metaphorically than
literally true, and more fitted for a burst of oratory
than for a state paper — must here think their favourite
doctrine carried to an unexpected and unwarranted
length. If ' the blockade is raised,' &c., and ' the
system broken up into fragments utterly harmless and
contemptible' — if there be any foundation for this strong
language, surely the facts that form that foundation
cannot be so obscure and doubtful as to make them

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT G3
Uable to the misconstruction which is affected to be
apprehended. If the state of things be such as is de
scribed in the beginning of the sentence, surely the
decision of the end of it savours a little of useless
obstinacy and pride. If the concession can be made to
America without injury to England, it is but a natural
act of kindness to make it ; if the making it would be
advantageous to England, it is also an act of policy.
But the dignity and honour of the Crown and of the
people are but pretexts upon this occasion. The real
ground of the line pursued by Ministers is its political
advantage. They hold the present state of commercial
transactions to be useful to England and injurious to
France, and if they can make it out to be so in any great
degree (for the odium of the measures is not worth a
trifling advantage) they certainly act right.
January 22. — Parliament met on the 19th. A poor
debate in the House of Commons. The Speech stated
that the King had disapproved of some of the articles
of the Convention of Cintra, and was, upon the whole,
unobjectionable. The Ministers very fairly offered all
the information necessary for full inquiry upon all the
contested points — viz. the Convention in Portugal, the
campaio-n in Spain, and the negotiation with America.
I foresee a session of much uninteresting debate. The
fault of Opposition is a determination to make differences
of opinion where, in fact, there exist but few, and those
triflino-. The fault of Ministry is a want of weight and
dignity of character, and a mode of answering when
tliey are in the right which sometimes puts them, and
often makes them appear to be, in the wrong.
Spain, however, continues to absorb his attention.
Whether the reforms which he promises ^ will be
' That is, Napoleon, in his proclamatior. to the Spanish people.

64 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
executed, whether they will be beneficial to the Spanish
nation, whether they would be considered by it as ad
vantages, are questions which yet remain to be decided.
That they will be beneficial is, I think, sufficiently
proved by the mere statement of them ; that they are
considered so is also pretty evident from the circum
stances of Bonaparte's holding them forth as boons and
measures of conciliation. Otherwise you must con
sider him either a mistaken politician or a wild disin
terested reformer. It must, however, be observed that
these advantages, if advantages they be, Spain will owe
to her spirited and gallant resistance, which, though it
has failed of its professed object — independence — wiU
have achieved, perhaps, its most substantial end — re
form. If she had submitted quietly to the usurpation,
the new Government, anxious to preserve the tran
quiUity which it found, would have been afraid of
touching the privileges of the nobility and clergy, or
of irritating the superstition of the populace. But the
general insurrection, and the obstinacy of the struggle,
at the same time that they have relieved Bonaparte from
the necessity of managing the higher orders, have also
taught him the necessity of really conciliating the minds
of so gallant a people. Thus I have always remarked
it to be the case in all the concerns and circumstances
of life, from the affairs of nations to the squabbles of
children. So perversely is human nature constituted
that tameness and submission only produce further in
jury and insult, but boldness and resistance, although
they bring on greater temporary suffering, never fail in
the end in part to effect their object, and to ameliorate
the condition of those who rely upon them.
January 25. — Yesterday an extraordinary Gazette
was published, containing the despatches which had

FIRST YEARS IN PAlRLIAMENT 65
been received from the army.^ Sir David Baird is not
dead, but by all accounts likely to do well. A narrative
of the action which was fought on the 16tli is given in
a very simple, perspicuous, and feeling letter from
General Hope, upon whom the command devolved, to
Sir David Baird. It might serve as a model for the
statement of military transactions, and must give every
one who reads it a high idea of the judgment of its
author. No accounts of the loss are yet received ;
General Hope says he would estimate it at bet-ween
seven and eio-ht hundred kiUed in the action ; and con-
sidering the almost desperate situation of the troops,
embarking after so long a march in the face of superior
numbers, the success has surely been achieved at as little
expense as could have been hoped or expected. Many
more, of course, perished during tli6 retreat.
On the 29th he gives an account of the debate arising out
of Colonel Wardle's charges of corruption against the Duke of
York :—
Wardle certainly committed a great imprudence in
charging the Duke of York in the first instance with
being a party to these frauds and impostures. It was
quite unnecessary, as the statement of the facts of the
commissions, &c. having been sold by Mrs. Clarke
would have been sufficient to induce the House to go
into the inquiry, and if the Duke be reaUy implicated
it must have been brought out in the course of the in
vestigation. Yorke's, Perceval's, and Canning's speeches
were loud and threatening, and looked somewhat like a
wish and attempt to bully and intimidate If there be
f .r^¦;.f\on for the charges at aU, it will have been a
iXr* ««k to. the Duke. If they »e p.oved
1 ^fter the battle of Corunna.

F

C6 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to the extent to which they are made, which it is im
possible to beheve that they wiU be, it is unnecessary
to say what must be the consequence. If it is made
out that Mrs. Clarke has bargained in a few instances
to sell commissions, that the commissions have been
conferred, and that she has received the money, I think
the character of the Duke ought to bear him through
innocent in the opinion of the country, but I am afraid
it will not. If there appears to have been any great
number, any long series, of such practices, it wiU form
a case of heavy and grievous suspicion.
February 21. — Last night Petty brought on his
motion respecting the Convention of Cintra, and pro
posed two resolutions — the first, in the words of his
Majesty's answer to the city of London, that the Con
vention had disappointed the hopes and expectations of
the nation ; and the second, that it originated in the mis
conduct of the Ministers. . . . Their answer to the
charge deserves to be marked as the weakest and most
curiously empty argument which, amongst many of the
same quality, though in a less degree, I have ever heard
urged and relied upon in the House of Commons. 'You
complain of the equipment of the army,' they say, ' but
with that army, so equipped. Sir A. WeUesley, if he had
been suffered to follow his own opinion on August 21,
would have achieved all the objects of the expedition
by forcing the French to lay down their arms.' Ergo :
the army was in all respects sufficiently equipped;
which 'last proposition is built upon the hypothesis,
conjecture, and guess of what the result of a fresh
attack upon the French on the day of the battle of
Vimiera would have been. Sir A. Wellesley had the
good taste to state himself that those who came to com
mand him ought to have taken his advice ; a principle

FIRST YEARS IN PARLIAMENT 67
which, if admitted, may go God knows how far to
wards rendering commanders-in-chief subordinate to
any general officer who may happen from circumstances
to have local or other experience which the com
mander-in-chief may be without. Sir Arthur WeUesley
has about him everything that gives promise of great
mUitary genius and of the character of an enterprising
and successful commander, but it is also evident that
from his habits he is better fitted for chief commands
than for subordinate situations.
On April 27 he chronicles the certainty of hostilities be
tween France and Austria, and on May 11 the results of the
battle of Aspern.
Champagny, in the latter part of his report of
April 12, says that the Emperor of France does not
wish the destruction of Austria, but that she must be
reduced to the measure of a pacific Power. There can
be little doubt that at this moment, employed as he was
with the affairs of Spain, he entered into a new war
with reluctance, and wishes to be as speedily as pos
sible relieved from the embarrassment of it. The con
sequence of these dispositions wiU probably be a mag
nanimous offer of peace to the Cabinet of Vienna, which
it is much to be feared the weakness of the latter,
worked upon and increased by these misfortunes, will
induce them to accept. This, it appears to me, is the
only politic war which has yet been waged by Austria —
pia arma, quibus nulla nisi in armis relinquitur spes.
The only chance she has of saving herself from the
condition of a dependent Power, and from annihilation
at the moment at which it shall suit the views of Bona
parte, is to persevere in hostility to the last extremity.
If she were influenced by this determination, if her
people were ready to maintain their independent

68 LORD MELBOUENE'S PAPERS
government with their blood, and if there were In Spain
spirit and unanimity to take advantage of the diver
sion — three conditions of the existence of which, I fear,
the most reasonable and the most alarming doubts may
be entertained — there would still remain a hope of
something being effected for the secure settlenient of
the affairs of Europe.
There is, of course, much argument and more con
jecture afloat respecting the cause, the extent, and the
importance of this event. The intelligence, as it stands,
amounts to this, that an accident has prevented him
from destroying the Austrian army, and subjected him
to a very considerable loss, a loss which, though I
should be unwilling to doubt the correctness of his
account in other material respects, I have no doubt is
much more considerable than he himself admits. It is
plain that this is a greater check than any he has ever
experienced since he became Chief Consul of France, for
though at Eylau he owned to a greater loss of men in
killed and wounded, yet he claimed, and, as I have heard
Lord Hutchinson who was there say, claimed with jus
tice, all the honour and much of the advantage of a
victory, though in this country he was reputed and
universally believed for a very considerable time to
have been completely repulsed and defeated. It was
always observed of the late Mr. Pitt, that if upon any
occasion he delivered a speech which was generally
thought less forcible than ordinary, he was sure upon
the very next opportunity to make fully up for the
slightest degree of failure by one of those exertions of
eloquence which he had so completely at command.
It is impossible not to feel apprehensive lest the next ac
count from Vienna should be something of this nature—
a victory so decisive as totally to absorb the memory

FIRST YE.^RS IN PARLIAMENT 69
of the former defeat, especially as I see a paragraph
from Paris state that they had accounts from Vienna
of the bridges being re-established on the 25th ult. At
the same time this news gives hope which hardly any
one was sanguine enough to entertain. Ever since the
usurpation of Spain it has struck me that he was play
ing his game with an imprudent confidence and bold
ness, and that, by grasping at so much, he was running
the hazard of losing all. Considering the immense terri
tories which he has to keep in subjection, and the
fatigue, the loss, and the dispersed state of his armies,
his situation must become very dangerous if the Aus
trian armies fight and the Austrian councils continue
firm. If the Hungarian nation were ready to stir, I
should consider his complete failure, in this present
expedition at least, as certain.
After this William Lamb gave up journalising to any con
siderable extent. The entries under the year 1810 are confined
to the barest mention of important facts — Lord Wellesley 's pro
gress in Spain, the marriage of the Emperor to the Archduchess
Maria Louisa, and so forth.
January 27, 1811. — The year 1810 Avliich has re
cently expired has been certainly distinguished by
much fewer military achievements upon the part of
the French than almost any of those which have lately
gone before it : the descent upon Sicily can scarcely be
supposed to have been earnest ; the siege of Cadiz has
languished ; httle progress has been made towards the
completing the conquest of Spain ; the invasion of Por
tugal, compared with former advances, has been feeble
and dUatory. Bonaparte seems in some measure to
have paused in his career, whether from weakness and
in order to recruit his means, or whether from design.

70 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
in order to mature his plans and to render his future
success more rapid and complete, is yet undecided.
In 1805 took place the capitulation of Ulm, the
battle of Austerlitz, and the Peace of Pressburg. In
1806 the battle of Jena and the overthrow of the Prus
sian monarchy. In 1807 the battles of Pultusk, Eylau,
Friedland, and the Peace of Tilsit. In 1808 the Spanish
Eevolution, and the overthrow of the Spanish armies at
Burgos, Espinosa, and Tudela. In 1809 the battles of
Eatisbon, Aspern, and Wagram in Germany, and Tala-
vera and Oceana in Spain. If we consider the natural
resources of the nations whom France has thus either
conquered or subjected to her influence, the advanced
state of their civilisation, and the equality of arms and
military tactics, the history of the world has no con
quest to be compared with this astonishing course of
triumphant wars and successful negotiations.
Here the Journal comes practically to an end, though there
are one or two entries as late as the year 1815. The fact seems
to be that, disgusted with the prospects of the Whigs, Mr. Lamb
ceased to take much interest in politics. It is a pity that we
have not his account of the debates on the Regency Bill of
1810, when he was entrusted by his leader with the duty of
]-noving an amendment to the resolution for limiting the functions
of the Prince. But, for the rest, he was lax in attendance and
chary of speech. At the general election of 1812 he fell a
victim to the ' No Popery ' cry, and for four years was absent
from St. Stephen's.

71

CHAPTEE III
MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE
I805-I82S
The years of William Lamb's absence from Parliament were
not destined to be years of contentment and repose. For it
was during them that the crisis of his married life occurred,
which ruined his happiness, embittered his mind, and filled him
with abiding grief. It is evident that the husband and wife were
not a well-assorted couple. Lady Caroline, though gifted and
fascinating, was hopelessly capricious and volatile ; William
Lamb, perhaps, too easy-going and good-natured to act as the
moderator of her impulses and director of her waywardnes.=i.
She afterwards accused him in her novel, ' Glenarvon,' probably
with some measure of truth, of never attempting to take her
seriously ; while his view of the question is to be gathered from
entries here and there in his Commonplace Book : — '
The general reason against marriage is this — that
two minds, however congenial they may be, or however
submissive the one may be to the other, can never act
like one. It is the nature of human things that no
man can be free and independent.
' Alas ! there is no man who is free. Whoever he
be, he is either the slave of wealth or of fortune or the
multitude of his fellow-citizens, or the provisions of the
' This Commonplace Book is probably the one which Greville saw at
Brocket after Lord Melbourne's death {Greville Memoirs, 2nd series, iii.
376). It seems to have been begun about 1809, and kept up, with more
or less regularity, until 1832. Where it is not otherwise stated, the quo
tations in this and the following chapter are taken from it.

72 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
laws constrain him to act in opposition to his own
judgment.' (Eurip. 'Hecuba,' 864.)
But in stating this great moral truth the philoso
phical poet has omitted that which is the greatest
check and limitation of the natural liberty of action —
the influence of relations and friends. By taking a
wife a man certainly adds to the list of those who have
a right to interfere with and advise him, and he runs the
risk of putting in his own way another very strong and
perhaps insuperable obstacle to his acting according to
his own opinions and inclinations.
By marrying you place yourself u]Don the defensive
instead of the offensive in society, which latter is ad
mitted to be in all contentions the most advantageous
mode of proceeding.
Before marriage the shape, the figure, the com
plexion carry all before them ; after marriage the mind
and character unexpectedly claim their share, and that
the largest, of importance.
Before I was married, whenever I saw the children
and the dogs allowed, or rather caused, to be trouble
some in any family, I used to lay it all to the fault of
the master of it, who might at once piit a stop to it if
he pleased. Since I have married, I find that this was
a very rash and premature judgment.
The effect upon persons in general, and , particu
larly upon women, by what others say of their hus
bands, &c., &c. Nothing's fixed. Their opinion rises
or faUs according to what they hear in the world, ac
cording to the lightest observation or the most casual
remarks. Every man wiU find his own private affairs more
difficult to manage and control than any public affairs
in which he nia}^ be engaged. CromweU and Monk

• MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 73
were more thwarted and disconcerted, the former by
his daughter, Mrs. Claypole, and the latter by his wife,
as may be seen in Clarendon's ' Life,' than by all their
adversaries, external and domestic.
Nevertheless their life for six or seven years was fairly
happy. Lady Caroline gave birth to a son on August 11 , 1807,
to whom the Prince was godfather. Unfortunately the child,
though handsome and well-grown, became early subject to fits ;
his intellect never developed ; and paternity, which might hive
been to the father a source of consolation, only developed into
an additional cause of unhappiness.'
The following letters of Lady Caroline's to her husband may
be dated from the postmarks at 1809 : —
May 27 Aftee dear boy was gone to bed I set out for
1B09. Panshanger, having begun ' Adele de Senanges,'^
which amused me so much that I was there in no time.
I found the bride and bridegroom in high health and
spirits, though they really behave themselves in such a
decorous manner I should imagine they must have been
married before.
Lord and Lady Kinnaird are here, the former better
than I ever hoped to see him. Panshanger is very plea
sant in all respects. How sorry I am to hear Edward
Paget has lost his arm. It was a very gallant action, I
hear ; pray bring me accounts of it. If it is true your
friend Lord Cawdor lost his Bill by one only, I shall
be inconsolable. Lord Kinnaird and Lady Kinnaird
are writing more letters than Lord Castlereagh ever did.
Plunger ran away from me yesterday, and Francis found
him parading about at the top of the park with some
' Augustus Lamb lived until November 27, 1836, the object of his
father's constant care and affection.
* Adele de Senanges, ou Lettres de Lord Sydenham (1794), by Mme.
de Flahaut, afterwards Baroness de Souza, the friend of Mme. de Eemusat
(Mme. de Remusat's letters, passim).

74 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
stray poultry. I would not bring my pretty Phillis
with me, as you wished me not.
They read last night some of the new Montagu
letters.^ You cannot think how clever they are — un
like the style of a girl of fourteen ; but really, as so
many married people are so like children in body and
mind, it is quite well now and then that the reverse
should take place. Tum, I have just been stung.
cm ye tvtvov
OrjpCov ivrl jxiXKrcra Kai akiKa rpaujaara TTOtei.^
I will study to be as pleasant a friend to you as Caro
line George is to her husband.^ We seemed aU of us
acting a play last night in a new house, old people and
all, met together from odd quarters. I think lately,
my dearest William, we have been very troublesome to
each other ; which I take by wholesale to my own ac
count and mean to correct, leaving you in retail a few
little sins, which I know you will correct. Also do not
say 'Java.' Condemn me not to silence, and assist my
imperfect memory. I will, on the other hand, be silent
of a morning, entertaining after dinner ; docile, fearless
as a heroine in the last vol. of her troubles, strong as a
mountain tiger, and active as those young savages,
Basil's boys, to whom, by-the-bye, you will give one
shilling apiece. You should say to me, raisonnez mieux
et repliquez moins.
Ryde, Sep- I BEGAN Sir Joliu Moorc's letters again, and am
tember i. j^^^^^^h struck, if the account is true, with the bad
' One of the numerous editions of Dallaway's selections from Lady
Mary Wortley Montagu's Writings and Correspondence.
' ' The bee is a tiny beast, but what wounds it inflicts ! ' — Theocritus,
Id. 19, 1. 6.
^ Mrs. George Lamb, born St. Jules.

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 75
management there seems to have been at first setting
out. I cannot also conceive how, with such letters and
opinions daily coming forth, such a general infatuation
about the Spaniards could prevaU. What occasioned
your mother and Mr. Gill, my mother and so many others
of all sides and parties, to tell such a pack of stories, which
seem to have been perfectly groundless ? I can aUow a
great deal for enthusiasm, but such conduct as the
Spaniards seem in general to have shown towards us is
certainly a great damper to such feeling. How true I
think this passage in one of Sir J. Moore's letters to
Lord William Bentinck, who seems to have been a very
sensible man : ' When you say the chief and great
obstacle and resistance to the French will be offered by
the English army — if that be so, Spain is lost. The
English army wiU do, I hope, all which can be expected
from their numbers, but the safety of Spain depends on
the union of its inhabitants, their enthusiasm in their
cause, and their firm and devoted determination to die
rather than submit to the French.' If such an opinion
is true, which I firmly believe it is in all such cases,
what a shame it seems to devote our brave armies to a
hopeless cause for a weak, ungrateful people ! My dear
brother, too! In Sir J. Moore's letter to Mr. Frere ^ —
where one can see he is in a tiff about his appointment —
he agrees with you about titles wrongly bestowed, for
he says he trusts he will excuse anything omitted in
the letter, thinking it better to give no titles at all rather
than a wrong one. By-the-bye, my blood curdled with
the quantity of black bile Frere's pompous, insignificant,
impudent letter brought forth. I could not stand it at
all ; such a nonchalant coxcomb. I almost wish he had
' Ilookham Frere was responsible for the ill-judged advance upon
Madrid, whicli was made against Sir John Moore's better judgment.

70 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS '
been with the German Legion ; we should then have seen
what sort of a figure he would have cut at Talavera.
I went 3'esterday to church, and heard the same
man preach you heard last Sunday. He takes rapid ad
vances in the Methodistical style ; the last time we were
' Oh, my dear brethren,' this time we were ¦ ' Oh, my
dear brethren and Christian. warriors and hardy veterans,'
with a great deal about love and souls in torment. He
so entirely lost himself at the conclusion in the military
simile he had adopted that he addrest three old women
in a voice of thunder, which stirred them amazingly,
calling them to fight, and strive, and obtain the king
dom of heaven by blood, and loudly addressing them
by the appellation of ' Ye veteran Christian warriors.'
Before church Lady Anne Bingham, Sarah, and I
went to call on Dr. and Mrs. Hooly, who live in a
pretty-looking cottage not far from the Duke of Dorset's.
They were very glad to see us. Their children are ugly ;
Mrs. Hooly prettier and thinner than when we saw her ;
the doctor passing ugly in the meek, scientific way he
was of old. There is nothing frank and agreeable in his
manner ; I call it a sly, polished, coldish manner. The
babies bellowed incessantly. They all sent numberless
messages to you. And now I wish you good-bye, and
God bless and preserve you, and keep you from all
harm both in body and mind. I have been playing all
day with that pretty little Augustus of yours. He is the
dearest child I ever saw, and shows where you are gone
by pointing to the sea. Mr. Cotman informed me in
person, last night, that you were safe at Southampton,
in health and spirits, by twenty minutes past ten, which
information he repeated three times with a 'yes' of
triumph at the end. Sarah heard a woman yesterday
talking of meeting-houses. She said she never should

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 77
go to them sort of places again, for she had once been
and it had stirred her in such a manner that she was
not herself for some days after.
So their life went on until 1812, when Lady Caroline was
introduced to Byron, and that ill-starred acquaintance began
which speedily developed into infatuation on her part and
boredom on his. Into the details of her extravagances, which
Culminated in her stabbing herself with a paper-knife — ' ye
dagger scene of indifferent memory,' as Byron called it ' — it is
unnecessary to enter, as they have already been the theme of
countless notices in memoirs and magazines. Of her husband's
feelings we know little or nothing ; for Lady Caroline's statement
to her friend Lady Morgan, that he did not care,^ is simply
incredible, and in direct contradiction to her letters, in which
she invariably speaks of him as the best and kindest of men.
Still, the tradition is that he endured her conduct with a con
siderable show of outward philosophy. The family were not
equally tolerant, and almost persuaded him to effect a separaticm;
but the arrangement fell through though it is certain that it
was not, as ¦ Lady Caroline declared, averted by the publication
of ' Glenarvon,' the record of her passion for Byron. The pair
continued to live together ; nor was Lady Caroline, with all her
faults, by any means devoid of gratitude and good-feeling. At
a dinner at Paris she suddenly asked one of the party, in the
hearing of the rest, whom he supposed she thought the most
distinguished man she had ever known, in mind and person,
refinement, cultivation, sensibility, and thought. The person
addressed suggested Lord Byron. ' No,' was the reply ; ' my
own husband, William Lamb.'
And here we may as well bring a sad story to its conclusion.
The next ten years or so do not offer much food for remark.
An interesting acquaintance was made in 1819, when Lady
' The date was July 5, 1813, and it is probable that the acquaintance
did not long survivethe performance.
- ' He cared nothing for my morals. I might flirt and go about with
what men I pleased. He was privy to my affair with Lord Byron, and
laughed at it. His indolence rendered him insensible to everything-
"When I ride, play, and amuse him, he loves me. In sickness and suffer
ing he deserts me. His violence is as bad as my own.'— Lady Morgan's
Memoirs, vol. ii. pp. 199-200. (See also Hayward's Essay.)

78 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Caroline canvassed William Godwin on behalf of George Lamb,
who was standing for Westminster. The philosopher was sub
sequently invited to Brocket, and became the recipient of
numerous letters from the lady, while William Lamb interested
himself in a subscription that was started to relieve his neces
sities.' Again, about the beginning of 1824, we find Edward
Lytton Bulwer, who was still at Cambridge, a guest at Brocket.
' Lamb, by the way,' wrote Bulwer, ' is a singularly fine
character for a man of the world.' ^ The relations between the
two during this period seem to have been conducted on the
most affectionate terms ; but in June 1824 the event occurred
which was to make separation inevitable — namely. Lady Caroline's
encounter with Byron's funeral, passing along the Northern
Road, as she was coming out of the Brocket gates for a morning
ride. The shock was a ten-ible one to her ; and her eccentricities
and violence of temper became so marked that the family insisted
on a separation, which was effected in the September of the
following year. After one wild outburst, Lady Caroline, as will
be seen from the following poem and letter, submitted to her
fate with a good sense which is greatly to her credit.
December, LovED One ! no tear is in mine eye
1^*25. Though pangs my bosom thrill,
For I have learned when others sigh
To suffer, and be still.
Passion, and pride, and flattWy strove,
They made a wreck of me ;
But oh ! I never ceased to love,
I never loved but thee.
My heart is with our early dreams
And still thy influence knows.
Still seeks thy shadow on the stream
Of memory as it flows :
' Lord Melbourne never lost his interest in Godwin, and it was partly
through his exertions that Godwin's sinecure post of Yeoman-Usher of
the Exchequer was not abolished by the Eeform Parhament. — C. Kegan
Paul, Life of Godwin.
- Earl Lytton's Life of his Father, vol. i. chaps, x. and xi., which con
tain a discriminating and favourable description of Lady Caroline's
character.

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 79
Still hangs o'er all the records bright
Of moments brighter still
Ere love withdrew his starry light.
Ere thou hadst suffered ill.
'Tis vain ! 'tis vain ! no human will
Can bid that time return ;
There's not a light on earth can fill
Again love's darkened urn.
'Tis vain — upon my heart, my brow.
Broods grief no words can tell ;
But grief itself were idle now —
Loved one, fare thee well.
In my opinion, these verses are very full of feeling,
although they have faults.
Thank you, dearest William, for your kind letter.
Bell ^ sends you the ' compliments of the season.' Once,
when more refined, she would not have made use of a
vulgar phrase ; but now we mix with common fellows
in common society we shall speak the vulgar tongue.
Write to me soon. I shall go and see our boy.
She lived with the old Lord Melbourne, at Brocket, where
her husband continued to see her at frequent intervals, until in
1827 he went to Ireland as Chief Secretary. In the autumn of
that year it was evident that her days were numbered.
From Dr. Lady CAROLINE has just dcsircd me to let you
k)°fhJ'Hon know how she is. Some time ago I had
o^'tobCT'2 wished to do so, but her ladyship prevented
1827. jj^g^ a^g gi^g would by no means unnecessarily
frighten or distress you.
It is with feelings of the deepest regret that I have
lately observed symptoms of water collecting about
her, . . . and I have apprehensions of the greatest
dano-er. Of course Dr. Evans has occasionally seen her ;
but the idea of any further advice, and the remedies
' Her dog.

80

LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

that may be the result, seem to trouble her much.
Her conduct has been very amiable ; indeed, her be
haviour of late has altered very much in every respect
for the better. She appears convinced she cannot ulti
mately recover, but with feelings of perfect resignation
says she does not mind to die.
P.S. — Lady Caroline has sent for Mrs. Hunter, who
comes down to-day. Her ladyship desires me to write
from her, as she has just asked me what I am writing.
Lady Care- ^ REALLY fccl bcttcr ; the mcdiciiies agree -with
]aon!w. ™^^5 ^^^ I tave everything I possibly want. I
Lamb. ^^^ g^j,g yQ^ ^--j^-l^ 1^g g-^g^^ |.Q jjj^Q-^ iiy^^ Frederick
Lamb came over with Emily to see me, and sat with me
nearly an hour. He was very entertaining, and with
his usual satire seemed to abuse every place, but par
ticularly Spain. You know, of course, that he is ap
pointed to Lisbon, to go there with Don Miguel. I
should like to know what wiU happen. He does not
look at all well, and wears very long, bushy hair, which,
I think, makes him look thinner, but it is not, as ours,
turning grey. I will send you a message to Walter ; I
have never seen Lloyd, but I beheve he is quite weU.
Mrs. Hunter has been so very iU that she probably
could not write to you. She is coming down to-day,
and sliaU answer for herself. I hope you wiU go and
see Duncannon, and pray remember me to them all.
Augustus has not been well ; perhaps he leads too
regular a life, and does not take enough exercise, and
too much tea and bread and butter. Everybody I have
seen makes great enquiry after you and after him. I
am quite surprised to hear you have game from Brocket ;
pray, if you can get a pair easily, send me some grouse
or some moor game. My brother William is not well

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 81
at Harrogate. I take my simple medicines, and as
Dr. Goddard is writing for me, he wiU probably tell you
what they are (blue piUs, squills, and sweet spirit of
nitre, with an infusion of cascarella bark).
God bless you, my dearest WiUiam. I wiU write to
you myself very soon ; do not forget to write a line to
me. Everything at Brocket is doing quite well.
She lingered on until January of the following year, when
her husband, coming over from Ireland, was with her at the last.
' William Lamb,' wrote her brother, William Ponsonby, to Lady
Morgan, ' behaved throughout as I always knew he would.'
Prom the cares of his married life William Lamb sought
distraction in sport, and still more in literature and society.
Readers of Lord Dalling's ' Life of Lord Palmerston ' will re
member the shooting- party at Mr. Conyers', in 1810, at which
William Lamb had better sport because, according to Lord
Palmerston, the wind blew harder on his side of the cover. But
crooked powder, more than the wind, was probably to blame for
Lord Palmerston's failure ; and Lord Melbourne, throughout his
life, was accounted an excellent shot. Nevertheless, his bags
were rather modest compared with modern performances. Thus,
in October, 1818, his game-book accounts for 206 head of
game, as the result of eighteen days' shooting; and through the
season of 1821-22, during which for some reason he only shot
for twenty-one days, he killed seventy-six head. He was also
something of a field naturalist. Thus he notes down that —
I saw upon the river a bird, black and about the
size of a widgeon, with an orange-coloured bill. I fired
at it ; it dived untouched and rose at some distance.
I fired again, and so on four or five times, without
hitting it, it always sinking at the moment of the gun
going off. I could have tired it out by forcing it to
dive repeatedly, but I left it upon the water. It is, I
beUeve, what is commonly called a velvet duck. My
gun missed fire twice running, and the bird did not
dive. It went off the third time, and the bird dived,G

82 LOED MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
which proves that it does not go down merely at the
sound of the flint against the hammer.
Later on he had an encounter with a hedgehog, which dis
played great reluctance to curl up into a ball, as a hedgehog
should. But literature was, after all, his chief solace, and it was
daring this period of his life that he acquired those stores of
knowledge which, combined with the original turn of his mind,
made his society so delightful. The Commonplace Book con
tains abundant records of his studies, which ranged over nearly
all the classics, and many English historians, notably Clarendon
and Burnet, of whom he was especially fond. It is, of course, -well
known that he was an excellent classical scholar, and could read
both Latin and Greek currently. As he read, any passage that
struck him as being of special importance was transcribed,
translated, and not unfrequently illustrated by parallel passages
from modern writers. Some of these parallels are most sug
gestive, and there have been many worse annotators to a Greek
tragedy than William Lamb. He was also an ardent philolo
gist and a bit of a grammarian. But, interesting as the book is,
it would be unfair to quote to any great extent remarks that
were evidently jotted down without an afterthought. Still more
unfair would it be to quote renderings into verse from the Greek
tragedians, which were seldom completed, and evidently never
retouched. The following passage, translated from Herodotus, ' Thalia,'
229, will illustrate William Lamb's method of reading : —
' When Cambyses felt that the wound was mortal,
he inquired what the name of that city might be. They
answered him, Ecbatana. But it had been before told
him by the oracle of Butum that he should end his fife
in Ecbatana. He indeed conceived that he should die
old in Ecbatana in Media, where all his power and pos
sessions lay. But the oracle intended this Ecbatana in
Syria. And when upon this inquiry he heard the name
of the city, being struck both with the misfortune which
had come upon him in the insurrection of the Priest

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 83
(Magus) and with his wound, he recovered his right
mind and said, " Here, then, it is the fate of Cambyses,
the son of Cyrus, to die." '
See the death of Henry IV. in Shakespeare :—
K. Hen. Doth any name particular belong
Unto the lodging where I first did swoon ?
War. 'Tis called Jerusalem, my noble lord.
it. Tien. Laud be to God ! — even there my life must end.
It hath been prophesyed to me many years,
I should not die but in Jerusalem ;
Which vainly I supposed the Holy Land :—
But, bear me to that chamber ; there I'll lie ;
In that Jerusalem shall Harry die.'
A parallel between Alcibiades and Charles Fox is perhaps
rather obvious, but it shows that Mr. Lamb was no longer con
tent to accept without qualification the political traditions of his
family : —
'For being in high consideration with his fellow-
citizens, he indulged in devises and pursuits, such as the
breeding of horses, and expenses far beyond his means.
This conduct of his was in the end not the least cause
of the overthrow of the Athenian republic. For many
of the people became greatly alarmed, as well at his
manner of living, so contrary to the habits and customs
of his country, as at the great power of understanding
which he betrayed in everything he undertook, and,
considering him as aiming at the possession of absolute
authority, conceived an inveterate enmity against him.
Insomuch that, although he conducted in his public
capacity the war with the greatest ability, yet persons
were in private so disgusted with his pursuits and
habits, that they committed the management of affairs
to other hands, and in no very long time effected the
destruction of the State.' ^
1 Henry IV. part ii. act 4, last scene. ¦ Thucydides, vi. 15, 4.
s 2

84 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Upon this passage it may first be showed how much
the private life of Alcibiades affected, not only his own
interests, but the more important ones of his country.
Secondly, how similar are the means by which Alci-
biades lost the confidence of his fellow-countrymen to
those which alienated the affections and confidence of a
large portion of this nation from Mr. Fox. First of all,
the horse-racing and expensive pursuits ; secondly, the
contempt of the feelings and habits of his own country ;
thirdly, the po-wer of his understanding, which, joined
with the former two, became an object of terror rather
than of hope and confidence. 'i2s TvpavviSo? imOv-
[jiovvTL TTokifjiioi KaOicTTaa-av might have been written by
a Ministerial historian of the proceedings upon, and the
consequences of, the India Bill.^
Unlike Colonel Newcome, he would have little or nothing to
do with translations. Thus he writes : —
All translations from the ancient into modern lan
guages are flat, tame, and insipid ; and, however faith
fully they convey the sense, however exact the transla
tion may be, they do not impress it upon the mind with
any of the strength or force of the original ; so that, in
my opinion, it is a matter of much difficulty to learn
even the facts, of much greater to catch any of the
spirit of ancient history, either from translations or
from narratives compiled from the works of ancient
authors. I have read over Leland, Mitford, and others —
authors of great labour and merit, the second, particu
larly, a writer of great learning, of a searching and
examining spirit — and have retained nothing clear or
connected from the perusal. But Herodotus, in the
" When the caricatures represented him as Carlo Fox Khan, riding on
an elephant.

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 85
original, has in a few days given me a better knowledge
of what is known of the times the story of which he
recounts than the others have in many months, or,
indeed, I believe, ever would have done.^
Here are some more general remarks : —
A curious book might be made of the great actions
which have been performed by persons whose names
have not been preserved, the glories of the anony
mous.^ If any observation strikes you to be made upon a
book you are reading, sift it to the bottom before you
go any further, and do not, from idleness, mark the page
and leave the subject to be reconsidered hereafter.
You never can return to a book with the same recollec
tion of the connection of its parts, with the same vivid
impressions — in short, with a mind so well prepared to
work vigorously and effectuaUy upon it, as you had
when you were engaged in the first regular perusal
of it. In works of imagination, or where the principal
beauty arises from the force and liveliness of the ex
pression, the first sketch is apt to be the best. But if
you have to write two letters upon the same subject,
and that subject rather a difficult and intricate one, the
second letter will not only be written with greater
facihty, but will be found, when finished, to be much the
shortest, easiest, and clearest.
Some persons who have themselves no relish for the
works of Homer and Virgil and the other ancient
writers, determine in consequence that those authors
1 However, the story of Aristodemus, as told by Mitford (v. 228), is
described later on as ' a good subject for a tragedy.'
^ Suggested by Tacitus's story of a Roman prisoner. Hist. iv. ch. 34.

86 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
are deficient in the real beauties of composition, and that
their reputation only arises from the blindness, ignorance,
and prejudice of their admirers. Sir Joshua Eeynolds
tells us in his works that when he first saw the paintings
in the Vatican he was to the highest degree mortified
and dispirited at finding how little he was gratified
with them. His conclusion from this effect was, not
that these works were undeserving of the high reputation
which they enjoyed, but that he himself had made very
little real proficiency in the true principles and taste of
his art. Those who detract from and condemn by
wdiolesale the works of the ancients would do well,
perhaps, to consider whether an inference similar to
that of the modest and enlightened artist would not be
more just than that which they so presumptuously and
precipitately draw from their feelings and judgment
upon this subject.
Never disregard a book because the author of it is a
ridiculous fellow.
Nothing injures poetry so much as over-consideration
and cold and critical correction. If an expression be
bold and striking, if at first sight it impresses on the
mind a patriotic or a sublime feeling, though upon
weighing it over and over you should find that it is
subject to some ambiguity or misconstruction, or that
in some other way it may be critically erroneous, do not
advise the author to alter it. It will have upon the first
reading the same effect upon others as it had upon you ;
that first effect is the object of poetry, and leaves an
impression which outweighs a hundred verbal or even
argumentative objections.
' It is after the manner of the Greeks to honour our
relations, and also not to seek to be superior to the

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 87
laws.' ^ These expressions of respect for the laws, of
their inviolability, are frequent in the Greek tragic poets,
and from them we might coUect that they did not hve
under an absolute monarchy. Mr. Hume has observed,
as an argument against the existence of limitations to
the power of the king in England, that throughout
Shakespeare there is no use of the word or mention of
Liberty in the sense in which we now understand it, but
there are many expressions of the same nature and
import as is above cited, which prove that Shakespeare
knew and understood and prized that which is the real
safeguard of Liberty, the certainty of Law : —
' It may not be ; there is no power in Venice
Can alter a decree established,' &c.
See the whole scene of the trial in the ' Merchant of
Venice.' Pindar, after wishing fresh victories to the champion
whom he is celebrating, goes on thus : —
' He who possesses a secret hoard of wealth, smiles
in the consciousness of his superiority to others — even
in paying his debt to death he knows it is not without
glory.' ^ If the sublime be in those passages, as Longinus
says, which produce any inward glorying and exaltation
of spirit, there is no poet more truly sublime than
Pindar, nor any passage in Pindar more highly so than
the foregoing.
Scholars will, perhaps, find interest in the following
remarks : — ovo/xa 8' iKOLCTTOv Bi.aTpi.fir) ttoWt] Xdyeiv,
iydplav VTT aiTOi; TCi^eaLV KadrjfJievcoi'.^
1 Euripides, Orestes, 486. ^ Pindar, Isth. i. 96.
^ Eiu-ipides' Phoenissce, 751. ' It would cause much delay to tell the
name of each foeman as he sat beneath the walls.'

88 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
This passage seems to be a censure upon ^schylus,
who, in the same circumstances, does go through the
names of the commanders, but may be taken as a mode
of avoiding the servility and competition of the same
task. Great proof of the attention that was paid to the
art and power of the poet in Athens, that novelty of
story seems to have been so little attended to. Succeed
ing poets seem to have a pride in working upon the
stories which had been successfully treated by their
predecessors, and simply to see in what instances they
could construct the story better. Thus each of the
three great tragic poets has a play on the story of
Electra. No instance of such competition upon our
stage except the 'Anthony and Cleopatra' of Shake
speare and the ' AU for Love ' of Dryden. In England,
a new tragedy upon Jane Shore would be damned by
its very name.
Superiority of judgment shown by ^schylus in his
' Choephoroe ' in two points over Sophocles in his
'Electra.' First, the solemn and formal manner in
which Clytemnestra receives the news of the death of
Orestes. Secondly, the entirely withdrawing Electra
from any share in the actual kiUing of Clytemnestra.
In this latter point the play of Euripides upon the sub
ject is still more shocking and revolting than that of
Sophocles. Superiority of Shakespeare to all tragedians. Eead
'Choephorce' 'Electra' of Sophocles, 'Electra' of
Euripides, ' Semiramis ' of Voltaire, and then read
' Hamlet.' Eead ' Zaire ' — certainly a most complete
and striking tragedy — and then read 'OtheUo,' and you
will discover it.
In spite of, or rather perhaps because of, his enormous
reading William Lamb shrank from authorship, and beyond

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 89
collecting materials for a Life of Sheridan — which were used to
a slight extent by Moore — and writing some reviews and occa
sional poems for the Literary Gazette,'^ he made few or no
appearances in print. His reasons for abstinence from publica
tion may be collected from the following remarks : —
Persons who have industry enough to collect infor
mation, have rarely ability enough to make use of it ;
and, vice versd, those who have abihty to make use of it
have not industry to collect it ; and so by far the larger
share of the talents of mankind is rendered useless. Be
fore you decide upon writing, ascertain what is really
wanted to be written — a task which will require a good
deal of reading to enable you to perform.
I have read too much and too little. So much, that
it has extinguished all the original fire of my genius,
and yet not enough to furnish me with the power of
writing works of mature thinking and sohd instruction.
The Note-book contains numerous observations on society,
sometimes written — as might be expected from the writer's dis
position and circumstances — in a decidedly cynical vein.^
Give every subject and every expression, if you can,
^ As the Autobiography of Wilham Jerdan, the editor of the Literary
Gasette, is for the most part without dates, it is impossible to say when
William Lamb's contributions to the paper began, or when they ended.
The only one identified by Jordan is the graceful poem beginning : —
' What 1 is the ancient shepherd dead.
The patriarch of the mountains gone ? '
'The obituary notice of Lady Caroline in the Gazette has been attributed
to William Lamb, but can hardly be his work. As for his relations with
Jordan, according to the Autobiography, they ' never grew to intimacy,
nothing beyond an occasional friendly intercourse.' Certainly, Lord
Melbourne's answers to Jordan's subsequent ajipeals for assistance in lite
rary ventures were couched in the most formal terms, and invariably in
the negative.
' The motto of the book is, ' If a thought arises in your mind which
you think worthy of being preserved, write it down immediately ; if you
delay, you have lost it.' And two passages follow, one from the Bambler,
the other from Aristotle, illustrative of the positiveness of youth.

00 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
an indecent turn ; that makes a witty man. Impute to
every action a base or wicked motive ; that makes a
profound and sagacious man. Act without regard to
times and circumstances in a manner which is best
calculated to defeat your own objects; that makes an
incorrupt and honest man.
Your friends praise your abilities to the skies, submit
to you in argument, and seem to have the greatest defer
ence for you ; but, though they may ask it, you never
find them following your advice upon their own affairs,
nor allowing you to manage your own without thinking
that you should follow theirs. Thus, in fact, they all
think themselves wiser than you, whatever they may say.
Among the smaller accidents of life no one gives
more pain at the time, nor is recoUected with greater
vexation, than the having blurted out in company some
thing which applies disagreeably to the situation or
connections of some one who is present ; not because
we have hurt the feelings of another, but because our
own vanity is mortified at having made so egregious a
blunder. You should never assume contempt for that which
it is not very manifest that you have it in your power to
possess, nor does a wit ever make a more contemptible
figure than when, in attempting satire, he shows that
he does not understand that which he would make the
object of his ridicule.
It wounds a man less to confess that he has failed
in any pursuit through idleness, neglect, the love of
pleasure, &c., &c., which are his own faults, than
through incapacity and unfitness, which are the faults
of his nature.
When a man is determined by his own inclination
either to act or not to act in a particular manner, he

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 91
invariably sets about devising an argument by which
he may justify himself to himself for the line he is about
to pursue. Persons in general are sufficiently ready to set them
selves off by communicating their knowledge, but they
are not so willing to communicate their ignorance.
They are apt, both in writing and conversation, to stop
when they come to the precise difficulty of the subject
which they are unable to get over, with such common
phrases as ' it were easy to push these considerations
much further,' or ' with the rest you are perfectly well
acquainted.' Now every man, almost upon every subject,
is acquainted with that of which another is ignorant ;
and the consequence of this false shame is that much less
mutual assistance than might be given is given, and
human knowledge is less complete and accurate than
there exist the means of its being rendered.
Wrong as it is, I never can feel repentance or regret
for the hours which I have passed in pursuits which
really amused me at the time, although they were
pursuits of foUy or vice. But I look back with great
dissatisfaction and remorse upon the months and years
which I have spent in idleness, in sleeping and saunter
ing, as much without present pleasure as future fruit
and advantage.^
Neither man nor woman can be worth anything
until they have discovered that they are fools. This is
the first step towards becoming either estimable or
agreeable, and until it be taken there is no hope. The
* The remark was suggested by Aristotle : ' And for the most part
strong desires are foUowed by some pleasure. A satisfaction results from
the recollection of how they have been gratified, or from the expectation
of how they will be. As those who hi burning fevers are afflicted with
thkst have a pleasure in the memory of having drunk, and in the hope
of drinking again.'

92 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
sooner the discovery is made the better, as there is
more time and power for taking advantage of it. Some
times the great truth is found out too late to apply it
to any effectual remedy. Sometimes it is never found
out at all ; and these form the desperate and inveterate
cases of foUy, self-conceit, and impertinence.
These extracts may not unfitly conclude with a dissertation
on keeping accounts, which, except in that it fails to mention
the possibilities of staving off a settlement by an occasional five-
pound note ' on account,' is a complete guide for the impe
cunious : —
' You must pay the amount of the debts which you
contract.' This is a position which cannot be denied,
and therefore it is absurd, as some persons do, to trust
to expedients, to accurate keeping of accounts, and
close investigation of the articles of bills, instead of be
taking themselves to the retrenchment of their expenses.
These are the companions and guardians of economy,
but they are not economy itself. The account-book
may be examined every month with the utmost regu
larity, and the balance found on the wrong side at every
examination. The great advantage of keeping accounts
is that an exact knowledge of your past expenditure
enables you to form an exact estimate for the future.
At the same time management will do something. If
your expenditure either amounts to or somewhat ex
ceeds your income, it appears to me to be a great con
venience not to purchase the whole of any one material
article at one shop. It wiU be found more convenient
to have 25/. each to pay to four tradesmen, than 100/.
to one. A creditor is less anxious after a smaller debt.
If it is required, two out of the four may probably
be induced to wait somewhat longer, when the one
has probably an immediate necessity for so large a

MARRIED LIFE AND LITERATURE 93
sum of money. In short, a man to whom you owe a
great deal which it is inconvenient for you to pay is
your master, and of a man to whom you owe a few
pounds, which you can throw upon his counter at any
time, you are the master ; and this latter appears to me
much the most natural order of things. It may be
said that no one of the four is under so great an obli
gation to you as the one ; and that, therefore, you do
not make so fast a friend by the one method as by the
other. But then each of them is in continued hope
that he shaU soon obtain your sole custom, and so is
under the influence of expectation of future advantage,
which is full as strong as gratitude for past services.
If you make an estimate of your expenses for the
coming year, and upon that estimate you find that they
exactly amount to or only faU httle short of your in
come, you may be sure that you are an embarrassed, if
not a ruined man.
Wealth is so much the greatest good that Fortune
has to bestow that in the Latin and English languages
it has usurped her name.

94 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE IV
WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITB
1816-1830
When William Lamb re-entered the House of Commons in 1816,
as member for Northampton,' he was a Whig in name, and
continued to sit on the Opposition side of the House, but a
Canningite in deed. It is probable that almost from the first
he was out of sympathy with many of the Whig tenets. The
tenderness for Napoleon which prevailed at Holland House had
little attraction for him, despite his disapproval of the methods
by which the war was carried on ; and he felt that while England
was fighting for existence the cry for reforms might well be
hushed. ' One great difference between the conduct of the
reformers of the present day and those of the time of
Charles I. is that the latter chose a period of perfect
tranquillity and security from external enemies, a
period when almost all foreign nations were by their
own distractions-disabled from interfering with England,
for putting into execution their schemes of amehoration.
The former exclaim against grievances and press the
most vital measures at a moment when the power and
inveteracy of France threatens our existence as an in
dependent nation.' '¦^
He deplored, also, the mistaken action of the King at the
commencement of his reign,
' He was returned on April 16 in the room of George Ponsonby. Mr.
Torrens says he was elected by Portarlington, and soon afterwards by
Peterborough. Mr. Lamb was elected for Portarlington in 1807, and
Peterborough is evidently a slip for Northampton.
^ Suggested by Thucydides, iii. s. 38. ' Persons who, to describe them
in one word, are looking after something different from the s jate of society

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 95
'because, by indisposing and ahenating the great
famUies from the Court, to which they were naturally
sufficiently attached, he raised up an opposition more
bitter and inveterate than any other, from the dis
appointment of what they conceived to be their just
pretensions, and who, as they were more disposed, so
from their natural strength in the country were they
the more able, to go to greater lengths both in language
and measures than an opposition differently constituted
would have been prepared for, or, indeed, than would
have been suffered in them if they had attempted it.'
William Lamb was by no means insensible to the value of
party ties, and persuaded himself, rather paradoxically, that —
'in poUtics you may serve the cause of wisdom and
justice better by remaining with those to whom you
have attached yourself, even after you disapprove much
of their conduct and prefer that of their adversaries,
than by leaving them. Nothing can justify a man in
unsettling the minds of others, weakening the force of
reverence, authority, and example, except a conviction
as clear and strong respecting the consequences of con
tinuing in the faith of his fathers as that which is
stated in the text.' ^
Still, the via media of Canningism possessed great attractions
for a man abhorrent of extremes, and, early prejudices once
thrown to the winds, the personality of the great statesman did
the rest. ' Canning told me,' or, ' I remember Canning saying,'
in which we live without sufficient understanding of our present circum
stances.' ' This remark was called forth by Burnet's story about Peter Walsh,
the Franciscan, who, though a Protestant by conviction, determined to
remain a Catholic, saying that ' No man ought to forsake the religion in
which he was born and bred, unless he was most clearly convinced that
he most certainly would be damned if he continued m it.'— History of
His Own Times, p. 195, fol. ed.

96 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
are phrases which occur frequently in Lord Melbourne's later
letters, and there can be no doubt that he was influenced during
his career in the House of Commons by Canning more than by
any other political leader. The process of conversion was, in
deed, fairly complete in 1812, when Brougham, the self-consti
tuted censor of the Opposition, complained to Lord Grey that
Lamb was as much of a Caniiingite as J. W. Ward, and declared
that his defeat at the polls was not to be regretted.'
As to his own status as a politician, William Lamb had
moments of doubt and diffidence.
Sir Edward Coke says, somewhere or another, that
he is certain that God enlarges and enlightens the un
derstanding of men when they are sitting in Courts of
Justice. Such is the difference between a man who by his.
habits and feelings is formed for public affairs, and one
who is unfitted for them. The former finds himself en-,
couraged, invigorated, and strengthened by the con
sciousness that he is acting upon the spur of the occasion
before the eyes of men, subject to their censure in his
failure, but sure to reap their approbation by his suc
cess. All these circumstances oppress and overwhelm
the latter, and deprive him of the use of those powers
which perhaps he possesses in an eminent degree." By
this [Sir E. Coke's saying] we must, of course, under
stand that he found in that situation his own mental
perceptions more quick and clear, and his judgment
more settled and distinct, than upon other occasions.
For myself, I must own the House of Commons has upon
me quite a different effect. I can walk in the shrubbery
' Letters to Lord Grey of August 2 and October 6, 1812 (Brougham's
Life and Times, vol. ii.). There is malevolence but some truth in his
remark that politicians like Ward and Lamb had a weakness ' for little
prize essays of speeches, got up and polished, and useless, ij[uite useless,
for affairs. To have Canning, the leader in this line, against them, and
sneering at them, they do not like ; and not being men of very great minds
(though very good and clever men — one part of them, at least) they would
fain at all costs be with him.'

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 97
here at Brocket Hall and reason and enlarge upon almost
any topic ; but in the House of Commons, whether it be
from apprehension, or heat, or long waiting, or the
tediousness of much of what I hear, a torpor of all my
faculties almost always comes upon me, and I feel as
if I had neither ideas nor opinions, even upon the
subjects which interest me the most deeply.
The opinion of others, however, was widely different. Lord
Castlereagh said that he might become Premier if he would only
shake off" his carelessness — a failing apparent rather than real —
and set about it ; and the Regent, no mean judge of character,
remarked with emphasis, ' Sligo, mark my words, that man will,
some day or other, be Prime Minister.'
Still, during the next few years his career does not call for
any protracted comment. He incurred additional unpopularity
with the Whigs by voting for the Suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act in 1816, and by supporting the Six Acts in 1820.
In 1819, however, Lamb, who, on November 29, exchanged his
seat for Northampton for the representation of Hertfordshire, is
found acting with his old friends, and supporting Lord Althorp 's
motion for an inquiry into the state of the country. It is
probable that George Lamb, who was waging contests for West
minster, in which success alternated with failure, was more before
the public, though he received valuable support in his canvass
from his eldest brother.
In 1822 Canning, on the suicide of Lord Castlereagh, be
came Foreign Secretary and Leader of the House of Commons.
The following speculations of Lamb's, which have hardly be-9a
fulfilled, were not impossibly evoked by the great sentence : ' I
called the New World into existence to redress the balance of
the Old.'What a prospect does the estabhshnient of the inde
pendence of South America open to the imagination !
Hereafter, when great and mighty States, under what
ever form of government, insular and continental, shall
have arisen in the New World, when culture shall have
covered the face and population spread itself through- II

fl8 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
out the extent of those vast regions, when armies shaU
be raised proportionable to that population, when
arsenals shall be formed capable of equipping and
harbours of containing the fleets which their boundless
forests afford the power of building, the affairs of our
times and our countries, which appear to us so weighty
and gigantic, will be looked upon by the philosophers
and statesmen of those periods in the same manner as
we regard the history of the contests between the States
of Greece or of Italy. The violent and desperate reli
gious war of thirty years, the war of the Succession, so
important in its consequences, and, lastly, the over
whelming and devouring war of the French Eevolution,
will be considered, perhaps, as we consider the Pelopon-
nesian war, as a series of actions in which great virtues
were exercised and great talents displayed, but utterly
insignificant when compared to the great armies now in
motion and the vast territories now in dispute.
Of the change that promptly came over the conduct of affairs
Lord Melbourne, long afterwards, gave a description in a letter
to Lord Tavistock : —
Windsor When I found that I had left the Duke's ^ letters
November out of my owu, I put them into another cover
14, 1838. ^^^ directed them. I hope you have received
them. I should think that John's wishes, as you explain
them, could surely be carried into effect. It is only
doing what, in fact, ought to be done, and was done by
Canning in the year 1822. Partly from the easiness of
his nature,, which let everybody do as they liked, partly
from a knack which he had of shuffling over important
questions nobody knew how, and partly from jealousy
of Canning, Castlereagh had either taken or suffered to
' That is, the Duke of Bedford.

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 09
be cast upon him the whole business of the House and
management of every question. When Canning suc
ceeded to him he— for I had a conversation with him
upon the subject — who, whether from consciousness of
his own superiority or from more generous feelings, had
no jealousy of anybody, at once determined to put an
end to this, to make each Minister transact his own
business, to obtain as much assistance as he could, and
only himself to exercise a general superintendence, and
to come forward when he was required. This was the
right state of things, and this may surely be restored.
There are some advantages in doing all yourself, par
ticularly — which is not the case at present — if you
have any sulky, refractory, discontented, or crotchety
colleagues. Silence and absence are good tests for
sulkiness and ill-humour. Adieu.
All this while he was making up his mind and bringing his
reading to bear upon the great questions of the day — Catholic
E, mancipation and Parliamentary Reform. His notes on Catholic
Emancipation are numerous ; Herodotus and Bishop Burnet,
the Argives of Ancient Greece and the Huguenots of France,
are all pressed into service. As might be expected, his con
clusions are more optimistic than those of a later jDcriod, when,
surveying the question, he is reported to have said, ' The worst
of it is, that the fools were in the right.'
When it is said that the granting the Catholic
question would have no effect in conciliating the Irish,
we overlook the effect of general feeling. When dis
tressed manufacturers turn factious, when ploughmen
out of work set fire to barns and ricks, it arises from a
general unreasoning spirit of violence, whicli is gene
rated in their minds by their distressed circumstances, a
mahgnant, but to the uncultivated mind not unnatural,
wish of involving others in the distress which they
themselves are suffering, a bitter comparison between

100 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
their own misery and the prosperity of their neighbours.
The feelings of contentment are often as blind and as
little founded on the real advantage of those who in-
dulo-e them as the feelings of dissatisfaction, and the
o-rantine of such a boon, the deliverance from such a
badge of inferiority, would spread a general sunshine
without much reference to the actual share of benefit
obtained either by individuals or by bodies of the com
munity. My opinion is for granting civil rights, as far as
such equality is compatible with safety both to the
doctrines and the superiority of the Protestant estab
lishment. As to all the resolutions which have been
entered into at their meetings declaring their right to
unqualified concession, the best answer would be the
enactment of the measure with such limitations and
under such conditions as may seem good to the; wisdom
of Parliament. In the same way he was considering the question of Reform,
and fortifying his mind by large doses of Cobbetfs ' Parlia
mentary History,' Aristotle's ' Politics,' and Clarendon. His
conclusions were against a change : —
Majority^ — will of all — cannot acquiesce in it, touch
upon it with reluctance — in curid populurn defenderem,^
&c., &c., but cannot go so far as to admit, when I am
speaking, that the majority of the people are always in
the right.
' ' Mihi semper in animo fuit ut in rostris curiam, in senatu populum
defenderem ' — one of his favourite quotations from Cicero. Compare a
speech on June 25, 1839. ' We must decide by majorities, which, perhaps,
after all is not a very satisfactory method of settling questions. But the
imperfections of human nature force it upon us. God forbid that I should
say that a majority is always in the right. I have been for so long a period
of my life acting with a minority, and I even now so often find myself
identified with them, that my associations and feelings are all the other
way.'

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 101
Great increase of persons who think upon and take
an active part in poUtics, and great rise into pohtical
power of merchants, manufacturers, and persons raised
into consequence by the increasing trade, &c., of the
country. Extreme importance that correct notions
should be formed by such persons, and that they should
not immediately think that nothing is so easy as to
reform the system and to exclude every evil which has
heretofore been admitted.
Great reason against reform that it will be found
not to be attended with any of the benefits expected
from it, and then more and more will be required, the
original argument against any innovation will be lost,
and the constitution will be destroyed. This the more
to be feared, considering the opinions which have been
broached upon the subject — dividing the country into
districts, excluding Ministers from the House of Com
mons. I anticipate the total destruction of freedom of
speech from a reformation of the Parliament, and for
this reason. The present House, knowing that there
are popular, plausible, Sind prima facie objections to its
formation, will endure to hear its conduct arraigned
and condemned, because it does not wish to stir dan
gerous questions ; but a House of Commons elected
according to what is called theory and principle will
never bear to hear itself freely and violently censured,
though its acts may possibly be such as to deserve the
most acrimonious censure.
Draw the distinction between a man of Parliamen
tary influence and promoting hberally a system of right
opinions, and one who brings them down in a phalanx
to impose his demands, &c., taking advantage of the
weakness of a Ministry. This is a great evil — about

102 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
counterbalanced upon the whole by the advantage [of
a permanent majority] ; and should we get rid of it by
reform ? Combinations for the same purpose would
take place.
Advantageous to have persons in Parliament who
act from private interest. Merchants, for instance,
who support or approve measures inasmuch as they
promote or interfere with their commercial views are
excited to a degree of exertion and industry which
throws great light upon the measures themselves, and
to which men are never stimulated by mere dictates of
duty. Cold and negligent attendance and attention of
persons who are popularly chosen. . . . Best founded
complaint against the present House of Commons — non-
attendance. He also notices as a strange inconsistency that Lord John
Russell, who moved the disfranchisement of corrupt boroughs in
1819, should be member for the pocket borough of Tavistock,
and in 1822 expresses himself as unable to vote for going into
Committee unless the full details of the plan are laid before
the House, and it is understood that the extreme reformers,
like Burdett, pledge themselves to abide by it.
When Canning, on the illness of Lord Liverpool in 1827,
was summoned to form a Ministry, William Lamb was once
more out of Parliament, having retired from a contest at Hert
ford in 1825, because he found that the electors preferred the
uncompromising Radicalism and irresponsible demagoguism of
Tom Buncombe, who did not hesitate to import into the struggle
the misfortunes of his adversary's private life. However, a seat
was speedily found for him at Newport, Isle of Wight, in heu
of tlie Premier, and he was appointed Irish Secretary, taking
his seat for Bletchingley, where Mr. William Russell retired in
his favour.' For some reason he did not start for Ireland until
the beginning of July, and in less than a month Canning was
dead. TJieir correspondence accordingly was limited, and all
' He was returned for Newport on April 24, and for Bletchingley on
May 7.

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 103
that has been preserved is a brief note from Canning telling the
Chief Secretary to number his letters, and so to give them an
appearance, if not a reality, of method. IMews of the national
loss was promptly transmitted to Lamb by the Home Secretary,
Lord Lansdowne.

Secret PooR Canning expired between three and four
dentiai " ^his iiioming. I write in great haste, having
Au^™'8, t)een to Windsor to notify the event. The K. is
1827. much affected by the event, was very gracious,
but told me he had not made up his mind how to act.
He would in the course of another day explain him
self on paper. He has since sent lor Goderich and
S. Bourne. You sliaU hear from me when things assume a more
decisive tone. Poor Mrs. C. is, I am afraid, in a dread
ful state. He was occupied to the last with a paper
respecting Portugal, a very able one, communicated to
us all, and kept referring to it when he could no longer
command his thoughts in words.
Lord Goderich undertook to carry on the Government, and
under his somewhat lax regime a series of Ministerial crises
promptly ensued, which were actively fomented by the King.
William Lamb transmitted an account of one of them to his
chief. Lord Wellesley : —

William I SEND you the only letter I have received ;
f^"^^ though it comes from a lady (my sister-in-law,
wei?e"ie'' Mrs. G. Lamb), it seems founded on very good
septem- authority. Certainly the King is a most un-
[1827]. accountable man. If he means to break up the
Ministry, why does he not do it ? If he wishes to keep
them together, why does he make petty difficulties ? If
Herries is to be sacrificed, to which it seems difficult
how either the King or Lord Goderich can consent, it

104 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
would appear as if no impediment were left to a settle
ment ; and yet impediments appear to exist. ^
Meanwhile William Ijamb had settled down to his work, and
was proving himself a very efficient Chief Secretary. For in
spite of his outward show of indifference he had a high ideal of
statesmanship.^ With Catholic Emancipation an open question
in the Cabinet, it was obviously not a time for heroic measures ;
and the period of Lamb's residence at Dublin is not one of
importance in Irish history. He even found it hopeless to stop
the Government subsidies to newspapers, or to reform the
magistracy. He was placed at an additional disadvantage from
the fact that Lord Wellesley, always a difficult man, was utterly
weary of an office which had failed to bring him an addition of
reputation, and eager to be gone. His lieutenant was anxious
to avoid posing as a power behind the throne, and cautioned
Lord Lansdowne against assigning to the Chief Secretary to the
Lord Lieutenant any separate authority. Always abhorrent
of extremes, Mr. Lamb deplored alike the exuberant pride of
the Orangemen and the turmoil created by the Catholic Asso
ciation ; but he was accessible to all, and invited to his table
not only members of the old Irish Opposition like Grattan and
Curran, but — and it was considered a great innovation-^Roman
Catholics as well, while at the house of Mr. Crampton he had a
full conversation with Sheil upon the agrarian disturbances which
desolated parts of the country.'
' Mr. Herries, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was accused of iii-
tr'guing to overthrow the Ministry and get rid of the Wliig alliance. But
Mr. Edward Herries, in his Memoir of his father's pubhc life, has made
out a very good case in his favour.
- For instance, when Lord Dudley consulted him as to whether he
ought to accept office. Lamb told him that he must be prepared, 'in the
first place, to bear every species of abuse and misrepresentation, and the
imputation of the most sordid and interested motives ; in the second
place, to go through with it if you undertake it, and not to be dispirited
by any difficulties or annoyances you may find in the office, and which
you may depend upon it no office is free from ' (quoted in Lord Dudley's
Letters to Bishop Coplestone).
' These statements are summarised from Mr. Torrens's chapters on
Lamb's Chief Seoretaryahip, in which the information is especially full and
important. From O'Connell's Correspondence it may be gathered that

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 105
Mr. Lamb's tenure of office was of value, then, chiefly for the
official experience which he acquired, and which was afterwards
to bear such good fruit at the Home Office. Mr. Torrens quotes
a long memorandum, dated September 19, dealing with the
varied subjects of Jury Bills, Criminal Law, Public Works,
Tolls and Customs, the Magistracy, Tithe, Education, and so
forth. It is a careful paper, and shows a grasp alike of general
principles and of detail. He is anxious that ' with respect to
any reformation of the law generally Ireland should follow
England at a certain distance of time, for the sake of greater
experience and greater maturity of legislation ; ' he desires that
a systematic plan may be provided against the mismanagement
and abuse of relief grants to the suffering population; he is
fully conscious of the difficulties imposed by religious jealousies
in the way of a general scheme of education. Other memoran
dums followed, but as copies of them have not been preserved
their purport must be collected from Lord Lansdowne's replies.

Lord Lana-

It was useless for me to say anything respect-
downe to incr soiiic poiiits Oil wliicli vou cxprcsscd natur-
the Eight ^ ^. . •' ^
Hon. w. allv an anxiety to be informed when I last heard
Lamb. " ... . «
Octobers, from you till I had an opportunity tor conver
sing with Goderich and Lord Anglesey.^ You
shall now be put in possession of all that I know con
nected with Irish arrangements. First, as to the inter
regnum. Lord Anglesey will be prepared to commence
his Viceroyalty with the New Year, so that it cannot be
very long. Exactly how long will depend upon Lord
Wellesley, who made, it seems, a particular request to
Canning that he should retain the appointment until the
end of the year, but that he should come away before,
and not immediately transfer the Government in person
to a new Viceroy. His coming away, therefore, before
Christmas if he chooses cannot be objected to.
the Chief Secretary was looked upon with great favour by the Liberator,
who hoped that he would ' im-Orange Ireland,' and was anxious to secm-e
his return for Dublin.
' Lord Anglesey was the destined successor of Lord Wellesley.

]06 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Second, as to Gregory.^ We are all agreed that it is
desirable he should be removed, but in a way that shaU
be both civil in manner and satisfactory in substance.
As, judging from your letter, you are on good terms
with him, you can have no difficulty in ascertaining how
he is circumstanced, and what provision would best suit
him. Goderich thinks there is no harm in granting a
pension analogous to that which would exist with respect
to an Under-Secretary. But, if no other way can be
suggested, he would have no difficulty in submitting the
case to Parliament, as he has served much longer than
under the law here would entitle him in a parallel case
to a pension. Anything you can propose for this pur
pose wiU be attended to with a desire to give it imme
diate effect, as Lord A. is anxious that the arrangement
should take effect as soon as he goes, if not before,
and C. Grant ^ says that G. must in your case, as he
found in his, remain master of the whole machine of
Government when you are absent.
Third, as to Gregory's successor. I have strongly
urged that it is, if not a matter of right, a matter of
expediency that the selection should in the first instance
be with you, which is fully agreed to by Lords Anglesey
and Goderich ; with the understanding, of course, that
3'ou will communicate with us before the appointment
is actually made, in case anything should occur for
consideration or discussion, which wiU be the more
necessary as the individual, whoever he may be, must,
or at least, without some strong reason to the contrary,
ought to, remain with your successor.
Fourth, an unexpected obstacle has sprung up with
' Mr. Gregory, the Under-Secretary, was unpopular with the Catholics
on account of his Orange leanings.
- Charles Grant, afterwards Lord Glenelg, had been appointed Irish
Secretary in 1819. He was then President of the Board of Trade.

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 107
respect to the Chancellor. Alexander (though no such
inference is to be drawn from his letter to Goderich,
which I have seen), I have just ascertained, positively
means to ask for a peerage before he goes, and to refuse
to go without one. It wiU, and I think ought to be,
refused ; but the case is embarrassing, as he appears to
be the person who best fulfils aU the conditions
required.^ Fifth, the Commandership-in-Chief is not settled.
Murray must come away for reasons (not political)
which will readily occur to you. Lord A. would be
glad to unite both in his own person, but I conclude
this will not be thought right. Sir J. Byng is a can
didate, and (judging from his conduct in the north) a
good one.
The chief event of the autumn was the destruction of the
Turkish fleet by Admiral Codrington at Navaririo, on which
' untoward event ' Lord Palmerston, the Secretary at War, sent
William Lamb some amusing comments : —
stanhope ^ ARRIVED here on Monday, and I have com-
No^ember municatcd with Goderich and Lansdowne on
15, 1827. ^2^g several points which you spoke to me about.
With respect to the Association Act, Lansdowne says he
is waiting for some promised and elaborate communi
cation on that subject from Lord Wellesley, who has
undertaken to give him fully and at length his whole
views upon that matter. Perhaps his communication is
more likely to come at length than to be very full when
it does come ; but at all events Lansdowne seems to wish
that the question should be brought before the Govern
ment by some representation from your side of the water,
' Sir A. Hart was ultimately appointed, Plunket being passed over,
much to his chagrin, owing to the hostihty of the King.

1C8 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
As to Anglesey's arrival, that, I think, seems not likely
to take place as early as you would wish. He has stated
himself ready to go at any time between the 8th and the
14th of January, unless the Cabinet should think it of
material consequence that he should go sooner. He is
at the present moment evidently suffering much under
his old complaint,^ and was yesterday in much pain
during the meeting of the Cabinet, and did not dine with
Goderich afterwards.
When Parliament will meet it is not easy at present
to foretell. The latter end of January is the time now
talked of as that at which the state of our account at
our bankers will render it necessary that Parliament
should meet, but it is possible that the turn of affairs
in the East may require a meeting at an earlier time,
though I think this is less probable than it was two days
ago. The mere circumstance of our having made a
bonfire of the fleet of our good ally at Navarino is not
deemed a reason for assembling Parliament, because
this was not a declaration of war but only a slight act
of remonstrance struck parenthetically into unbroken
fi-iendship ; but it was thought possible that the Turk
might, upon hearing of this friendly liberty, through his
barbarous ignorance of civilised usages, have taken
unfounded offence, and, like an iU-bred feUow, have
declared war against those aUies who, as Codrington says
in one of his resolutions, were doing aU these things
' evidently to the advantage of the Porte itself.' We, how
ever, received yesterday a despatch from WeUesley ''' at
Vienna, stating that Metternich, though he had only
been married three hours, had sent for Wellesley to say
' Lord Anglesey was a martyr to neuralgia.
^ This is Sir Henry Wellesley, a brother of the Duke of Wellington,
afterwards the first Baron Cowley. He was Minister at Vienna from 1823
to 1831.

"WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 109
that he had received from the Sultan a request for the
intervention of Austria between Turkey and the AUies,
with an assurance that Turkey was prepared to concede
even more than the AUies asked. At the date of this
despatch from Vienna Metternich had heard of the battle
of Navarino, but of course the account of it had not
reached Constantinople when the application was sent
off to Austria. If, however, the Sultan was disposed
to yield before the smash of his fleet, I cannot suppose
that this disaster, so signal and complete, could inspire
him with additional hopes of successful resistance ; and
consequentlj^ whether we accept the proffered mediation
of Austria, or on the other hand repl}^ that if the Turk
means to do what we ask he can just as well say^ so in
Turkish as in German, in either case I think we may
consider the matter as settled, and that no meeting of
Parliament will be necessary on account of affairs in
the Levant. You wiU, of course, consider this last
statement of the proffered mediation as most strictly
confidential. Lansdowne has proposed a grand reduction of
British Yeomanry from 24,000 to 6,000 men, and from
130,000^. to 40,000/. The proposition is so expedient
and wise that I have no doubt of its being agreed to,
and in that case no time will be lost in cariying it into
effect. The principle upon which the measure proceeds
is to continue the Yeomanry in the manufacturing and
mining districts where their services have been required
during the last ten years, or where there is reason to
think that their existence may have tended to preserve
tranquiUity, and to disband them in all the agricultural
counties where they have never been called out, and
are never likely to be wanted, at least in time of peace.
When this arrangement is executed, I hope 3-ou will l)e

110 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
prepared to make us a present of your Irish Yeomanry,
the disbandment of which would probably be a good
measure both in economy and in politics.
I WRITE more for the purpose of acknowledging
Lord Lans- f i -i -i i -i ¦ i ¦,
downeto your icttcr 01 the litii, and one without a date
Hon. w. I received immediately before, than of answering
Secret tlicm, for ou some of the most material subjects
fidentiai. you liavc rcvcrtcd to I could hardly venture to
Whitehall, . . . -. . -, , - .
November givc an opiiiioii, aiid ccrtamly could give none
that would be satisfactory to you without having
a full communication with Goderich and Huskisson,^ and
you may easily believe from recent events that their
thoughts and time are too much absorbed with foreign
politics to allow of any long deliberation on other
matters. Feeling with you all the inconvenience of giving any
fresh impulse to the theological movements in all direc
tions, I should perhaps be disposed to prefer that course
with respect to the grants if there were any such which
would for the present escape observation, but after all
that is passed, whether continued, added to, or with
drawn, they will not fail to attract attention and render
declaration of opinions necessary, and the views of
Government must be stated. The Moderators of the
Synod have been with me this week to represent the
Presbyterian feeling to be strongly in favour of the
Belfast Institution, although the majority of that body
are as much opposed to the alleged heterodox opinions
of some of the Professors as Messrs. Foster and Glass-
ford ; and I think there is a mode by which the Church
of England might be effectually reconciled to such
a grant as is desired, and which I do consider to be
' Mr. Huskisson was Colonial Secretary.

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 111
a very advantageous mode of estabUshing a strong hnk
between the Government and one of the most powerful
conductors, if I mistake not, of pubhc feehng and
opinion. Upon this and otliei- matters arising out of the state
of the laws as to societies and processions I wiU write a
few days hence more fully, when I have conversed with
our friends. With respect to the Catholics, I should
certainly conceive that beyond great attention and
civility all intercourse of opinion should be avoided.
For myself at least (but niy^ situation is perhaps some
what peculiar from having been requested twice to
present their petitions) I am most anxious to have it in
my power to say that I have neither directly nor
indirectly given nor authorised any advice as to their
moving or withholding proceedings in the next session.
I am sure it is the most correct course, in a case where
advice either way would be liable to such obvious
misrepresentations in different cj^uarters. Let us be
responsible, as we must be, for our own conduct upon
their question when it presents itself, but not for the
consequences which must attend either too much or too
little activity in passing it. Who can undertake to pilot
without knowing in what direction the port really lies ?
Your account of Hart is very satisfactory. Many
accidents seem to have conspired to give him a debut
under favourable auspices, and even his quarrel, in a
country where no man is permitted to be well with
everybody, will not be without its use in setting up his
character. You have probably heard from others what
I have great pleasure in repeating to you, that Huskisson
is considerably and decidedly better within the last four
weeks. I can hardly say how much I value him, and
how satisfactory our intercourse has hitherto been.

]12 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
The last accounts from Constantinople are of a more
pacific character than any we have had, and the Court
of v., which is much inclined to meddle, begins now to
perceive the interest it has in hastening, not delayino,
an adjustment. Since I wrote a few lines to you on Mondav I
The same . •' • '
to the have had an opportunity of discussing the im-

same.

Private portaut subjccts referred to in your letters
and confi- . ^
dentiai. rcceivecl last week, and more particularly that of
Whitehan, , -r • 1 • i r^ -. • n -, -r^
November tlic irisli grauts. With Godcnch and Huskisson.
22 1827 First, I stated to them the importance which
it appears to me attaches to the establishment of some
recognised connection between the Government and the
Belfast Institution, which I am assured exercises, and
will more and more continue to exercise, a most power
ful influence, on a population so active and inteUigent as
that of the North of Ireland, and they agree with me in
that view. The charge of disloyalty formerly, I beheve,
urged against them, is abandoned for that of want of
orthodoxy (I mean Presbyterian orthodoxy). The repre
sentation of the Synod of Ulster conveyed through their
Moderators is an answer. There remains the difficulty
which you have very justly suggested of the hostile use
which might be made of a new grant to Presbyterians
when a resolution is at the same time announced which
is supposed to be for the advantage of the Estab
lished Church. There' appears to me a good solution
of it in the evidence of the Bishop of Down, Dr. Mant,
who, going as he did from Lambeth to Ireland, is the
most unexceptionable authority where its interests- are
concerned, and who proposes, as an arrangement which
he should consider as advantageous, the establishment
as part of that Institution of a professor of the Church

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 113
of England theology. I enclose a copy of his evidence,
in case 5'ou cannot immediately turn to it. With all
our attention to economy, we think a few hundreds
more or less no object in such a grant.
Second, the grants to the Kildare Street Society and
that for the Suppression of Vice 1 must be diminished,
but it would be too strong a measure to discontinue the
former or, perhaps, even to diminish it much, without
being prepared with a plan of comprehensive education
instead. That suggested by the Commissioners does
appear for the present to be hopeless, though I have
received a letter from Dr. Murray ^ (which I have
answered in general terms) stating how desirous the
Eoman Catholic clergy were to make any concession, if
they could be secured against proselytism. The plan
that appears to me the most unexceptionable, con
sidering aU the difficulties of a general scheme of edu
cation, is that of schools in which one day in the week
might be set apart for religious instruction to the
Protestant children by the clergyman, and another for
that of Catholic children by the priest, each using their
own Bibles and their own comments, the other days
being left for the other purjioses of education ; but no
money to be issued to any school without a certificate
from the clergyman and parish priest of the children of
their respective flocks having attended their duty in
this respect. Might it not dispose Irish of all descrip
tions who would not like to see the National grants
diminished to come into such an arrangement to let
them understand that, if it was found practicable, the
present grants, not being found to answer their intended
' The Kildare Place Society and the Society for Discountenancing
Vice were too fond of proselytising in the interests of the Establishment.
^ The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin. I

114 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
object with respect to the community in general, must
be reduced? We are perfectly aware that the Association BiU
expires in the spring. Its warmest friends can hardly
contend that it has been found effectual or even useful.
We are much inclined to trust to the powers of the law
as it stood, vigorously enforced both against processions
and meetings of a dangerous character, and if it fails,
to proceed to any enactment that may be necessary on
that ground.
On all these points, if you wish for Cabinet opinion
y^ou must send over a regular despatch which can be
laid before them, but in the meantime you may, I
think, consider this letter as expressing Lord Goderich's
and Huskisson's opinion as much as my own.
We are in daily and anxious expectation of news
from Constantinople. Byng wiU, I think, be your
Commander-in-Chief, but not yet settled.
Early in December Lords Justices were appointed, and about
the middle of the month Lord Wellesley took his departure.
Lamb remained at his post, and carried on the government of
the country. Meanwhile the Government was fast breaking up,
and the crisis alluded to in the following letter was followed by
Lord Goderich's actual resignation on January 8, 1828.
I AM obliged to you for all you mention about
Lord Lans- ., .^^^ =" , . / . . ¦, • -1,1
downeto Lord W., which it certainly IS material to be
the Right . , „ .,,'',
Hon. w. apprised oi, particularly at the present junc-
Secret. turc. I sliall communicato your letter with
December' strict coiifideiice to Godcrich and Huskisson.
I conclude that he is by this time embarked
or embarking for England.
Although you must have discredited aU the ru
mours and exaggerations proj^agated by the press
of what has been passing here, you must, I am sure,

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANXIXGITE lio
have been satisfied that some occurrence of no ordi
nary nature had taken place, and may be glad to
know the real state of things. The beginning of last
week G., under the sudden influence of feelings which,
perhaps, you may know enough of his domestic interior
to understand, annexed to a letter on other important
matter, of which Huskisson and I were aware, expres
sions about himself unknown to us, which, though cer
tainly not a resignation in terms, were considered
equivalent to it by^ the K., who sent for H' [Herries]
under the idea that it was necessary to look out for a
successor. He would not hear of quitting his retire
ment, and G., recovered from the impression of the
moment, which was not connected in the slightest degree
with political differences (none such really existing), is
as ready to continue as the K. is to continue him,
though it cannot be denied an unlucky impression has
been occasioned by the reports to which [suclij a step,
promulgated as it was sure to be even where it ought
to be kept most secret, could not fail to give rise.
Pluskisson has shown in this transaction, as weU as
in all the intercourse I have daily had with him, a
degree of frankness, sensibility, and ability which make
it most [pleasant to act with him].
Lamb was invited by the Duke of Wellington, the new
Prime Minister, to continue at his post, and replied by asking
to be allowed to delay his decision until he had conversed with
the Duke upon the whole of the intended arrangements, ard
upon the proposed course of measures. He left Ireland, accord
ingly, on January 23, 1828, and ultimately consented to follow
the example of his Canningite friends, Huskisson, Charles
Grant Lord Palmerston, and Lord Dudley, and to remain in
office. Lord Brougham notes the anomaly of his position, in
that he was the only politician of the Whig connection in the
new Government ; but Lord Melbourne was throughout his life

jlO LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
a man who cared for facts much more than names, and was, in
all probability, not much affected by the circumstance. In any
case, his connection with the Duke's Government was short. In
March came the erratic voting of the Canningites on the East
Eetford Bill, Huskisson's hasty resignation, and its prompt
acceptance by the Prime Minister.^ Lamb, though he had
voted with the Government, determined to resign with his
friends, in spite of a special request from the King that he
would remain in office, because, as he wrote in a memorandum,
which Greville saw at Brocket after his death, but which has
since disappeared, ' he had always thought that it was more
necessary to stand by his friends when they were in the wrong
than when in the right.' Years afterwards he discussed the
matter with Lord Brougham.
Lord I^ the five hundred and forty-sixth page of the
to lm™''^ second volume of the publication of your lord-
whKhor™' ship's speeches, with historical introductions, I
Castle, gj^^ ij^Q following passagc : —
November o Jr o
2, 1838. i Lord Dudley and Mr. Huskisson, with the
lesser members of the party. Lords Palmerston, Mel
bourne, and Glenelg, were once more in opposition,^
and gradually assumed the Whig connection, but their
hostility to reform remained unabated. Nor is it one
of the least remarkable events in their history that to a
reform question they owed the last misfortune of losing
their places in 1828. They had taken the long-headed,
not to say crafty, view of their new leader, Mr.
Pluskisson, that giving members to Birmingham, on
the disfranchisement of East Eetford for corruption,
would tend more to prevent further mischief— that
is, as he explained it, really effectual reform — than
' Readers of Bulwer's Life of Palmerston will remember Lord Palmer
ston's capital description of the Canningite council of war. .
' These letters were written during their temporary estrangement,
hence their formality, and Lord Brougham's careful enumeration of ' the
lesser members of the party.'

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 117
merely opening the franchise to the adjoining hundreds,'
&c., &c.
This passage appears to me very unjust towards
others. With respect to myself I beg leave to represent
to your lordship that, if it does not assert a fact, it
affords strong ground for an inference contrary to the
truth, and it makes a most unfounded conjecture with
respect to the state of my opinions at that period. In
the division which led to the retirement from the Govern
ment of Mr. Huskisson and others I voted with the
Ministry of which I formed a part. I voted against
Mr. Huskisson ; and I only resigned my ofiice because
those with whom I had accepted it, and in whom I
f)laced my confidence, withdrew from his Majesty's ser
vice. With respect to the view which I had taken of
the giving members to Birmingham on the disfran
chisement of East Eetford, I have publicly declared in
your lordship's hearing that it was always my opinion
that those limited measures would not have produced
their intended effect, and that the question lay between
a firm adherence to the then existing Constitution and
a reformation as extensive as that which has taken
place. I AM very much obUged to you for your letter.
to the I knew that y^ou neither could nor did in-
wkidsor tend to misrepresent. The circumstance ol
November my votcs upou tlicsc subjocts having always
7, 1838. i^ggj^ given in silence and without any expla
nation sufficiently accounts for your not having
been aware of them; but the fact is, I never was
for any of those schemes. I never thought they would
answer. I never took the view which you call long-headed

118 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
and crafty, but which appears to me neither the one nor
the other — not long-headed because short-sighted, and
not crafty because neither intended nor calculated to
deceive. My opinion was then against reform alto
gether, and chiefly because I thought that it could not
be moderate or limited. The adoption of any of the
partial measures proposed seemed to me certain to
hasLen and advance its progress, because they both
admitted the existence of the disease and the propriety
of its remedy. Perhaps it signifies very little what I
thought then or what I did ; at the same time, a book
written by you will be considered hereafter conclusive
evidence of the actual conduct of your contemporaries
and colleagues, and therefore, if without giving it too
much importance y^ou can take a natural opportunity
of setting this matter right, I shall feel it a kindness.
Be assured that I never attributed this statement to
bitterness arising from anything which has lately taken
place ; and with respect to your other general remarks,
although I cannot admit their justice, I feel them to be
made not in an unfair spirit, nor in a tone of unkindness
and discourtesy.
Despite numerous overtures from the Duke the Canningites
entered into a close alliance with the Whigs, and acted cordially
with them during the momentous sessions which followed. Lord
Melbourne, as we may now call him — for his father's death in July
1828 had raised him to the peerage — took no part in the debates
on the Relief Bill, but in a thoughtful speech on the precedent
measure, the Bill for the suppression of the Association, he
warned the House against the futility of such legislation unless
accompanied by concessions. After his rupture with the ultra-
Tories the Duke's advances to the Canningites were still more
frequent, but as may be seen from the following letter, written
ten days before the railway accident which killed Mr. Huskisson,
their temper was by no means conciliatory : —

WILLIAM LAMB AS A CANNINGITE 119
Mr. Hub- "*" ^^CEivED the cuclosed from Brougham yester-
LpT '° ^^^'^ ^^^^ *^^*^ request that I would put it into
Melbourne, your hauds as soon as I could. I was very
Liverpool, ''
September sorry to Icam from Birch that I have no chance
13 [1830]. J. ^ ¦
ot doing so here, and not less sorry to find that
5'ou are prevented coming by indisposition. I hope
this wiU find you quite recovered.
The great Captain conies here to-morrow, and great
are the preparations for his reception. The feelings are
not confidence in, or admiration of, his political charac
ter, but rather that of awe at the man that subdued
Bonaparte and forced the Catholic question. It is the
Indian worshipping the Devil, because he is not con
scious where he shall find a protecting deity.
The Duke is in his usual good luck in respect to the
state of the county which he is now visiting. Nothing
can be more satisfactory than the present state of
manufactures and trade, and the feeling is general
that its present healthy condition is likely to be
permanent. We shall see whether he takes to himself the credit
of aU this. But at all events he has the benefit of it.
After Mr. Huskisson's death the Canningites were even
more unwilling than before to trust themselves to the Duke,
and when in the following month the Tory Government was
overthrown, their alliance with the Whigs was indissolubly
complete. ' A paper on the state of affairs. See Lord Melbourne's letter to
Brougham, quoted in the latter's Life and Times, vol. iii. pp. 06, 67.

120 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE V
AT THE HOME OFEICE
1830-183-1
On the formation of the Reform Cabinet Lord Melbourne was
appointed Home Secretary, his acquaintance with Irish affairs
being probably the reason for his nomination to that particular
office. He immediately gave evidence of great administrative
abilities. Even Greville soon altered his first opinion, 'Mel
bourne too idle,' and became quite enthusiastic in his favour.
' He has surprised all about him by a sudden display of activity
and vigour, rapid and diligent transaction of business, for which
nobody was prepared.' Certainly his hands were full enough,
for both the manufacturing North and the agricultural South
were within measurable distance of revolution.
The following letters, which have been selected from hun
dreds of a similar character, give an idea of the nature of the
disturbances in Ijancashire and Northumberland, and of the
Home Secretary's method of meeting them : —
Lord Mel- ^ ENTIRELY agree witli you that ' no military
wm™Hui- force can prevail against the secret councils
of Huitoil ^^f^ t^i6 funds of the Union.' This combina-
souui tion, or rather conspiracy, is an evil of a
IroTvenor different nature, and rec[uires another remedy,
Squai-e wliich it is dUficult to discover and apply, but
December rr j ^
30,1830. iQ (^levising which I may sa)', being very de
sirous at the same time of not exciting very sanguine
expectations, the best attention of the Government will
be directed. But when I wrote to ^x>n mv former letter

AT THE HOME OFFICE 121
the proceedings wliich had taken place at Ashton,
Stayleybridge, and elsewhere in that neighbourhood
seemed to indicate that the Union were fast abandoning
their system of secret councils, and were resorting to
open violence and undisguised insurrection. To force
notliing_but force can be successfully opposed, and it
is at once evident that aU legislation is impotent and
ridiculous unless the pubhc peace can be preserved,
and the hberty and property of individuals secured
from outrage and invasion. Since that period the ac
counts which we have received have assumed a more
favourable character, at least as far as respects the
apprehension of immediate disturbance, for I am well
aware that even if tranquillity shall be apparently re
stored it can only be for a time, and that the state of
the manufacturing districts of Lancashire is such as
to afford ground for the most serious uneasiness and
anxiety. Under these circumstances and at this time,
when it appears to me that the only safe course is to
combine and unite the friends of liberty and order
against their enemies, I am sorry to learn from )'our
letter that there is so little prospect of being able to
form a local force which can be depended upon. I
learn that the Lord Lieutenant has called meetings of
the magistracy^ in the respective hundreds, which is in
accordance with your opinion ; but I should hope that
the gentlemen who inhabit the agricultural parts of the
county^ will become sensible of the state of the manu
facturing districts, which, if they do not advert to it in
time, will undoubtedly press itself upon their attention
in a shape and form which cannot be disregarded.
Lord Mel- I HAVE uo doubt that your lordship acted dis-
the Eariof crcctly iu supprcssiug my letter of the 1st inst.

122 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Derby. Nothing is more to be avoided at all times, but
Private and " _ ...
confiden- more particularly in times like these, than the
tial. Home ¦'-_*'
oface, giving of offence to those upon whom you
January 11, o o i. j
1881. must after all rely for support and assistance ;
and I am very sorry to learn from your lordship's com
munication, as well as from other quarters, that there
does remain upon the minds of the magistrates of Lan
cashire a sore and bitter remembrance of what took
place in 1819, which prevents them from giving that
earnest and active assistance which otherwise might
have been expected from them. I should have hoped
that, even if the lapse of time had not been sufficient
to have effaced impressions of this character, they
would at once have yielded to the- evident dictates of
duty and to the sense, which all must entertain, of the
exigencies of the present period. Although I entirely
approve of the discretion exercised by your lordship
with respect to my letter of the 1st inst., you will, of
course, understand me as not retracting any of the
opinions expressed in it. The two remedies of which
the resolutions of the magistrates demand the applica
tion are new laws and a large military force. With
respect to the first, I have the authority of Mr. Lister,
the stipendiary magistrate at Manchester, expressed in
a recent letter, for asserting that many of the evils arise
not so much from the inadequacy of the law as from
the difficulty of enforcing it ; and as for the second, you
I must be aware that it can be employed only for a time,
I that it can produce but a partial and uncertain tran-
' quillity, and that after all it is a most unsatisfactory
way of maintaining order and preserving the public
peace. Surely, it is a disgrace that the great county of
Lancashire, with its opulent, populous, and commercial
cities, with its numerous nobility and gentry, with its

AT THE HOME OFFICE 123
respectable and enlightened inhabitants of every de
scription, agricultural, manufacturing, and mercantile,
should be unable to enforce the law within its own
limits or to prevent the establishment of a democratic
tyranny such as is described in the letters which I
have had the honour of receiving from your lordship.
Wliat is the cause of this state of things? Is the
magistracy defective? Is there a want of union be
tween the landed gentry and the manufacturers, or
amongst the manufacturers themselves ? Are these dis
turbances and attacks upon machinery encouraged by
some of the masters whose interest it is that improved
machinery which is being erected, to the prejudice, of
course, of their inferior factories, should be destroyed ?
AU these causes have been suggested to me, and I
should be anxious to profit by y^our lordship's superior
information upon these subjects so far as to learn
whether aU or any of them be weU founded. If your
lordship should be of opinion that any names should be
added to the magistrac)^, and will have the goodness to
suggest them, I have no doubt that the Chancellor of
the Duchy will without delay insert them in the com
mission. It appears from a letter from Mr. Hoxton (?)
received this day that, since the atrocious murder of
Mr. Ashton, there does appear a disposition amongst
the master manufacturers of Ashton, Staydey^bridge, &c.,
&c., to unite and take measures for the protection of
their persons and property. It would have been well
if this had been done before ; not that I mean to infer
that any precautions would have prevented the horrible
catastrophe which has taken place, but I cannot forget
that some of those gentlemen have not only been
unwillino- to take precautionary measures, but have
gone so far as to prohibit their workmen from coming

124 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
forward and giving evidence against the agents of
the Union who had intimidated persons from entering
their mills at a rate of wages which was denounced
by that society. I trust that those persons are at length
convinced that such conduct, whether arising from the
base motive of timidity or the baser motive of self-
interest, can neither answer the one purpose nor the
other, can neither assure their personal safety nor the
preservation of that property for the augmentation of
which they are ready to sacrifice the principles both
of probity and of patriotism. Every means should be
taken upon the part of your lordship and other gentle
men of property to further and encourage this first
appearance of an intention to act upon a liberal system
and with a determined spirit. I enclose a copy of a
letter from Mr. Hoxton, which appears to me to prove
that the existing law may be enforced, that if enforced
it would be sufficient for its purpose, and also to afford
a hope that even amongst the workmen themselves
there might, by proper exertion and right representa
tions, be excited a disposition to resist the mandates of
that society which appears hitherto to have exercised
over them so arbitrary and despotic a dominion. I
have no doubt that your lordship will use every exer
tion yourself for this purpose, and that you will do your
utmost to inspire a proper spirit of exertion into all the
magistrates and persons of influence in the county.
Lord Mel- ^"^ ^^ "^^^^ great regret that I learn from your
theDuke°of Grracc's letter of this morning, and from the
berilnT" commuuication from the Mayor of Newcastle
fonfiden-"'^ euclosed in it, that the disputes between the
office^M™y coal-owiiers and the pitmen in that part of the
21, 1831. country are so far from being accommodated

AT THE HOME OFFICE 125
that they appear to increase both in violence and ex
tent, and to embrace within their operation other trades
and employments and to threaten the most serious con
sequences. I also learn from the other quarters that
there is a great want of system and concert amongst
the magistrates, and it is reported to me, I know not
with what truth, that some who are in the commission
for the county of Durham have acted with great indis
cretion and irresolution, and in such a manner as rather
to foment and encourage than to repress and terminate
tumult and disorder.

It has appeared to me, in the course of the
The same ^^ . '
to the correspondence which has taken place, that
same. Con- , .
fidentiai. there does exist a lealousy and an opposition
Home ., ^ .¦'-•'-, ^ \^
Office, May Dctween the magistrates and the coal-agents,
23 1881 o "
which is prejudicial to the public service, and
that if they could be induced to act together with more
cordiality and unity of purpose there would be a better
chance of bringing the affair to a speedy and successful
termination. A letter from the First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir James
Graham, to Lord Melbourne, completes the view of the North.
I ARRIVED here half an hour ago, and I am happy
Private. . r^ n .
Carlisle, to iuform you that since Thursday night there
Sunday, " . i -i '^ • i
three liavc bceii 110 morc burnings, and the city has
o'clock. . __,
been tolerably quiet. Ihe account sent to you
yesterday will have informed you of the extent of the
Finsmoor riots ; to-day I send you a copy of the infor
mation of an approver. I am happy to say that one of
the incendiaries is in the county gaol, and a hot pursuit
of the other is in progress. The civil power has been
tardily and insufficiently exerted ; and yesterday, when

126 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
one of the warrants was executed in the suburbs of the
city, the military were under arms and in attendance
although no resistance had been offered to the special
constables. I shall attend, however, a meeting of the
magistrates to-morrow, and I shall also see Sir Hew
Eoss, who commands the garrison here, and I hope to
make a better arrangement, whereby this needless use
of military force may be avoided.
Your circular to the magistrates in the disturbed
districts has not been sent to this county. I think it
wanted here ; and your circular to the Lord Lieutenants
would do no harm.
Your promised reward on the conviction of incen
diaries is confined to the six counties specified. Do you
not think it right to extend this offer to aU counties
where wilful firing shall take place ?
In the South the state of affairs was even more alarming.
Gangs of labourers, in Hampshire 1,500 strong, moved through
the country, destroying machinery, burning farm-buildings, and
levying contributions. Lord Melbourne at once set himself to
me^t the disorder. Acting in concert with the authorities at
the War Office, Lord Hill and Lord Fitzroy Somerset, he marched
troops into the disturbed districts ; and on December 18 a
Special Commission met at Winchester to try the rioters in
Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Herts, and Wiltshire, before which
no fewer than 1,000 individuals were brought to justice.
Meanwhile the incendiary orators, Cobbett and Carlisle, were
being actively watched, but it was difficult to procure evidence
against them. I RECEIVED yesterday y^our letter of the same
bourne to date, with the enclosures. Nothing is so diffi-
T. Sane- , n i ^ l
tuary, Esq. cult to provc as tlic utterauce ot words, so that
January 6, it iiiiglit bc vcry difficult to found a prosecution
upon any proof which could now be obtained ;
at the same time it would be of considerable importance

AT THE HOME OFFICE 127
to obtain such proof, as it would throw new hght upon
the character and proceedings of the individual in
question (Cobbett).
I highly approve of the project you communicated
to me, of having the state of the county minutely ex
amined and inquired into by a committee of gentlemen
of the county. I am convinced that an immediate in
vestigation into the abuses of parochial administration,
and a redress of them according to the present law,
would do at least as much to relieve and satisfy the
country as any new law that can be passed. But such
an inquiry and such measures must be conducted on
sound and enlightened principles, or they may aggravate
the evils instead of removing them. The great errors
which have been committed in the administration of the
poor laws are the paying of the wages of labour out of
the poor rate, and the making a difference between the
rates of rehef afforded to married and single men in
favour of the former. These two mistakes have become,
I fear, inveterate throughout the county of Sussex and
many of the neighbouring counties, and cannot, perhaps,
be immediately corrected ; but no system can be safe or
wholesome which has not for its object the entire doing
away of both of these practices.
Carlisle was tried at the Old Bailey in January, and sentenced
to a fine of 2,000Z. or two years' imprisonment ; but Cobbett,
who was not brought to trial until July, escaped, as the jury
were unable to agree. He had the effrontery to call Lord Mel
bourne as a witness on his behalf.
In Sussex rick-burning prevailed ; but, though it was almost
impossible to catch the malefactors. Lord Melbourne would have
nothing to do with an agent provocateur, and rebuked an over-
zealous magistrate who suggested that an informer should be
employed who should ingratiate himself with the incendiaries
bv setting fire to two of the magistrate's own hayricks.

128 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

Lord Mel- ^ HAVE Considered your letter of the day before
Mr^nlnry yesterday, and cannot help submitting to you
S^nTcon- some observations upon its contents and sug-
south''^' gestions. The danger of employing spies and
Januaiy23, accompliccs has always been found to be that,
1831. ii-^ order to further their own ends, satisfy their
employers, and forward their own interests and main
tain their credit, they^ are too apt, first, to bring forward
false accusations ; secondly, to excite and encourage
to the commission of crimes, in order that they may
have the honour of informing against and detecting
them ; and I beg leave to recaU upon this subject to your
recollection the transactions of the year 1817, when
there is too much reason to suspect that the rising in
Derbyshire, which cost the lives of three men upon the
scaffold and the transportation of many more, was
stimulated, if not produced, by the artifices of , Oliver, a
spy employed by the Government of that day. If
Cumber ^ should be employed in the way in which you
describe, and if his representation should be either false
or exaggerated, I cannot help fearing that the strong
interest which he will be under to -support his own
story and fulfil his own undertaking may possibly lead
to similar results. I make no apology for bringing
before you this view of the subject, as I am sure you
must feel that in our anxiety to discover the perpetra
tors of these most dangerous and atrocious acts we
should run as little risk as possible of involving innocent
persons in accusations, and still less of adopting measures
which may encourage the seduction of persons, now
iiinocent, into the commission of crime.
Meanwhile the introduction and rejection of the Reform Bill
' The informer in question, who was undergoing sentence at Brixton.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 129
had caused a considerable increase of activity among the political
unions which, beginning with Birmingham, had sprung up in
all the large towns. The King was naturally alarmed, and
through his secretary, Sir Herbert Taylor, entered into a corre
spondence with Lord Melbourne.

Lord ''¦ ^^CEIVED your letter yesterday evening, and I
Me^houme wish I could Say in reply to- it that the infor-
Ta^yU)?' I'^'iation which has been given to his Majesty is
South' not correct. The poUtical unions, as far as I
street, '¦ '
September cau Icam, are undoubtedly extending tliem-
24, 1831. , . . -' ^
selves, increasing their numbers, and completing
their arrangements. They are not so numerous as the
unions for the purpose of raising wages and regulating
trades, from which they are as yet separate and distinct,
but in both cases much communication and co-opera
tion takes place by means of delegates between the
bodies which are established in different parts of the
country. The plans and intentions mentioned in your
letter of preserving the public peace but of resisting
the payment of taxes are commonly spoken of and
agitated amongst them, and confidently given out as
intended to be carried into execution.
How far this spirit may be spread, or how deep it
may penetrate, or to what extent it may really be acted
upon, it is impossible beforehand to estimate or con
jecture, but the most serious fears are entertained by
many well acquainted with the people of the conse
quences which would attend the rejection of the^measure
now before Pa,rlianient.i As these persons, however,
1 The allusion evidently is to Francis Place, with whom Lord Mel
bourne was in frequent communication through George La',nb, now
Under-Secretary for Home Affairs, and his private secretary, Thomas
Youno-. "(See the passages from Place's MSS. quoted by Mr. Torrens,
vol i.^pp. 352, 360.) K

130 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
are in general eager advocates of that measure, and
very desirous that it should pass into law, their evidence,
though by no means to be rejected, must be received
with some allowance, as it may be biassed by their
wishes and inclinations. Upon the whole, however, I
cannot but look with solicitude and uneasiness to the
result of the division upon the second reading. Some
demonstrations of popular feeling will probably take
place in the form of riot and tumult, but these ebulli
tions would probably be of little importance compared
with those other plans and designs mentioned in your
letter.^ The open meeting of the political unions
which do exist, and the formation of others for the pur
pose of dictating to Parliament, would be a formidable
symptom, and any extensive and successful combination
for the purpose of resisting the payment of taxes would
be a blow levelled at the very existence of all our insti
tutions, and must, in the complicated and artificial state
of our society, be attended with the inost disastrous
consequences. The last letter which I addressed to you, if I
Til 6 SfLIDB
to the remember right uiion Saturday, the 24th inst.,
same. , ., ., .
South I wrote m great haste, being anxious to convey
street, ^ ^ ^ -,¦-./. ti
September tlirougli you to liis Majcsty, as speedily as pos
sible, such information as I possessed upon the
subject of his enquiry^, and, upon reconsideration of what
I then wrote, I am rather fearful that in my haste I
omitted some explanations as well as modifications of
the statements which I then made.
When we first came into ofiice in November last,
the unions of trades in the North of England and in
other parts of the country for the purpose of raising
' The riots at Bristol were, however, of considerable importance.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 131
wages, etc., and the general union for the same pur
pose, were pointed out to me by Sir Eobert Peel, in a
conversation I had with him upon the then state of
the country, as the most formidable difficulty and danger
with which we had to contend, and it struck me as well
as the rest of his Majesty's servants in the same light.
We considered much ourselves, and we consulted
much with others, as to whether the arrangements of
these unions, their meetings, their communications, or
their pecuniary funds, could be reached, or in any way
prevented, by any new legal provisions ; but it appeared
upon the whole impossible to do any^thing effectual,
unless we proposed such measures as would have been
a serious infringement upon the constitutional liberties
of the country, and to which it would have been im
possible to have obtained the consent of Parliament.
In the meantime these unions, although they con
tinued to subsist and to carry on their operations,
evidently began of themselves to slacken and to remit
some of their energy, and to lose some of their influence.
Their attempts at open violence were suppressed by a
reasonable display of force and resolution ; and the ex
treme and irremediable loss to which the workmen sub
ject themselves by belonging to them began, and must
StiU continue, to force itself upon their attention by
affecting their comforts and even their subsistence.
Some of the men, for instance, refused 25s. a week
and stood out for 30s. Now if a man under these circum
stances remains twelve weeks out of work he loses 15^.
If at the end of the twelve weeks he is obliged to submit,
and does not obtain the advance of 5s. a week his loss
is irretrievable. If he succeeds, he must still labour for
more than a year to make up his loss —5s. a week for
fifty-two weeks amounting only to 131.

132 LORD MEIiBOURNE'S PAPERS
This is so clearly a losing game that its disadvantage
must in time become obvious to the most vulgar under
standing, and even to that which it is stiU more diflicult
to convince — namely, to a mind bewildered, heated, and
rendered obstinate by violence, prejudice, and passion.
. In consequence, it is coming to be admitted by the
workmen themselves, in their public meetings, that the
unions have generally failed, and I feel myself quite
persuaded that if a law had been attempted last winter
to put them down it would have proved less effectual
than the causes which I have already mentioned ; the
inexpediency of the steps which they were taking would
not have been discovered by them, their failure would
have been attributed to the law, and the spirit of union
would have been encouraged and strengthened instead
of being, as it is in some degree, discouraged. The
heaviest blow they have received is from having been
left to their own course, which has already made to a
certain extent, and will every day make more manifest,
its intrinsic unreasonableness and absurdity.
At present their language is an admission that their
partial and local unions have failed ; that in such con
tests the masters are sure to get the better, and have
done so ; that they must have a general and national
union. But even if they should establish such a general
combination and co-operation, the same causes which
have baffled them in the one case — namely, the multitude
of workmen, the necessity of subsistence, and the con
sequent competition for employment — will have pre
cisely the same effect in the other.
Now, it must be observed that these unions are far
larger, far more extensive, far more numerous, much
better disciplined, and urged and instigated by a more
pressing and immediate interest than the pohtical

AT THE HOME OFFICE 113
unions. These latter aU profess the same object as the
trade unions — viz. the protection, as they term it, of the
workman, by preventing the undue reduction of wages ;
but they go further, and avow the ulterior design of a
general reformation of the Government.
They have latterly been extending themselves, and
they have begun communication by means of delegates ;
but my information comes upon this subject from eager
reformers, who are very anxious to promote their cause
by strong representations of the formidable consequences
which would result from the failure of that measure.
In Birmingham, the political union is numerous, but
it is not looked upon with favour by the more respect
able of its inhabitants. It was chiefly set on foot and
promoted by Mr. Thomas Attwood, who thinks of nothing
but the state of the currency, and whose real object is
a bank restriction and an issue of small paper money.-'
In Manchester and the manufacturing parts of York
shire and Lancashire these political unions have not
prevailed to the same degree, nor have they the same
consistency and popularity, as in Birmingham. In
London it exists, but is not as yet formidable. They
are established also in many parts of Scotland, but I
am not aware in what numbers, or how composed. But
whatsoever may be their present state or strength, I feel
quite certain that any attempt to put them down by law
would only end in giving them consequence and import
ance, and would perhaps constitute them the acknow
ledged organs of public feeling, of which at present they
^ The Birmingham Political Union was formed in the beginning of
1830, white the Tories were still in power, for the purpose of denouncing a
metaUio currency. Lord Melbourne always dislilsed Attwood, and when
the latter said to him, in 1832, ' If the people do not get their bellyful after
this, I shall be torn in pieces,' all the consolation he got was, 'And so
much the better. You deserve it.' (Haydon's Autobiography, vol. ii.)

13 1 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
are only the symptoms. It is the public feeling which
is dangerous, not the political unions. If these latter
should adopt any of the measures mentioned in my
former letter, such as the resistance of the payment of
taxes, unless they are supported by a large^ proportion
of the niiddle'irhH even of the better classes of society
the attempt will be abortive and ridiculous. If they
are~so"siipported it is unnecessary to say how critical
the state of public affairs will become. It is-tojji'event
and to avert such a crisis that the Eeform Bill has^Wen
proposed ; and the best mode of meeting and foiling these
unions is to act by them as we have done by the other
unions, which I have before desctibed — not tp interfere
with them while they confine themselves within the
boundary of the law. If we act otherwise we shah
only give them strength, and we shaU commence an
imprudent contest in which we are by no means sure of
success, and which to be foiled in might be attended
with the greatest danger.
If I hear any more upon these subjects I will take
care to make immediate communication. I have written
this in great haste, and imperfectly, but I have been anx
ious to write it in order to explain and to make more
clear the substance of my^ former letter, and also to state
my opinion upon the course which ought to bepursued,
... I AM extremely concerned to learn from
The same ... , . », . -,
to the Dorsetshire that the s^iirit of party^, occasioned

same.

Home by the recent election, prevails to such a de-
Office, *' . ^ -^
October 25, groc 111 thc ycomaiiry corps of that county
that it is deemed inexj)edient to call upon them
to act in case of riot, provided the doing so can pos
sibly be avoided.' We must not conceal from ourselves
' Two troops of Kentish yeomanry actually resigned because their.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 136
that the real weakness and inherent vice of all institu
tions of this nature, from a regiment of volunteers
down to a posse of special constables, is that, being
taken immediately from the body of the people, and not
having habits of military obedience, they are in times
of strong popular feeling either divided within them
selves by discordant opinions, or so possessed and
heated with the prevailing popular sentiment, that
either they cannot be depended upon for acting at all,
or are entirely incapable of conducting themselves with
that steadiness, coolness, and impartiality which are so
absolutely required in such circumstances.
I am very much afraid that your Birmingham corre
spondent is too sanguine when he states that the Bill,
if reasonably altered, would meet with general appro
bation. The changes which he suggests might con
ciliate some who are now alarmed at it, but they would
undoubtedly alienate a very large proportion of those
who at present profess to approve it. Care should be
taken to guard against all fraud and contrivance, either
iii"rating or omitting to rate ; but it appears to me that
it would be a measure of very doubtful policy to make
any alteration in the amount of qualification. It is a very
dangerous way of dealing with a nation to attempt to
retract that which you have once offered to concede. The
principle of one individual being empowered to give a
greater number of suffrages according to the amount of
his property is, in my opinion, liable to great objection.
Property will alway^s possess considerable influence over
the votes of others, and it appears to me to be leaning
even too much in its favour to give it, in addition
to the power which it must naturally exercise, an
commanding officers. Lord Sydney and Lord Wmchelsea, had voted against
the Eeform Bill.

338 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
additional direct weight of its own by investing it with
the plurality of suffrages. But the consideration which
weighs most with me is, that such an arrangement leads
to the result of a majority being openly and manifestly
out-voted by a minority ; a result which strikes me as
totally opposed to the real principles of popular voting,
and calculated to lose aU the advantages derived from
popular institutions, and which mainly consist in the
contentment, acquiescence, and satisfaction derived
from the consciousness felt by the people that they
either watch over their own interests, or have each of
them an equal voice in nominating those whom they
trust with that duty.
I HAVE been thinking a great deal about this
Earl Grey . . & &
to Lord Birmingham Union. The sort of organisation
Melbourne. -,.-,? , . ,,*=.,„,
East which IS now proposed is not calculated lor the
Sheen, . ,. , ,. . „
November discussioii of puolic qucstious Or for petitions
16,1631. , -f . -^ .,. , -^ „
upon them. It is oi a military character, lor
i active purposes, now alleged to be for the preservation
of the public peace, but easily convertible to any other
objects. Unarmed as a body, they possess arms as
individuals, and being previously formed into com
panies and regiments and divisions under the name of
ti things, &c., they may at any moment appear as an
armed and disciplined force. The danger of this I
need not point out to you. The question is, how to
deal with it ? And I cannot help thinking that the pro
ceeding, of which we are expecting an account from
Birmingham, cannot be sanctioned by the law. I wish
you would have a case immediately drawn up upon Mr.
Lawley's letter, and the opinion of the Attorney- and
Solicitor-General taken upon it, that we may have it
when the Cabinet meets on this subject. You will, of

AT THE HOME OFFICE 137
course, bring under their notice the facihty with which
a body so organised, though not with arms in the first
instance, may become an armed force.
I BEG you will return to his Majesty my humble
bourne to tliauks for the communication of the letter from
Sir H. Tay-
lor. Home Coloucl Wood, wliich agTccs witli the accounts
Office, . ., *^
November wliicli I liavc reccivcd from other quarters. I
24i, 1831. . ¦ , 1 1 . p
entirely agree with the general reasoning oi
your letter that the present moment, if prudently em
ployed, is favourable for attaining for the Government
the support of all those who are interested in the mainte
nance of order and the protection of property. Whether i
the formation of such bodies as those which subsist I
under the names of trades unions and of political unions j
is illegal may admit of considerable doubt. I entertain '
veiy little, however, that many of the measures taken
by the trades unions are as clearly illegal as were the
late proposed proceedings of the Birmingham Political
Union. These if carried into effect would have amounted
to a conspiracy to supersede and assume the power of
the State. The resolutions and acts of the trades unions
I conceive frequently to amount to a conspiracy to con
trol their masters and to extort from them a higher rate
of wages. An opinion to this effect was given by the
late Attorney- and Solicitor-General, Sir James Scarlett
and Sir Edward Sugden ; but no proceeding of law was
instituted upon this opinion by the late Government,
nor has it as yet been deemed prudent to do so by his
Majesty's present advisers. These trades unions are not
at present either flourishing or extending themselves.
In some instances, as at Nottingham, they have con
verted themselves into political unions. These latter
societies have undoubtedly produced in the public mind

138 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPEItS
much alarm, and they have received a considerable
check from this feeling.
London was at first comparatively quiet, but on the rejection
of the second Reform Bill political agitation became sufficiently
formidable there also.
Lg^3 I PERCEIVE by the newspapers that you have
to'^s^rP."^ consented to become the Chairman of the
ireretand Bolitical Uuiou of London and Westminster.
tiS^Home '^^ ^® ^°* ^'^^ ™-^ either to question or to
oSober makc any observation upon the prudence of
27, 1831. i[^[q step, which has, of course, been taken with
the best intentions, and upon a full consideration of the
circumstances of the times. But, seeing that y^ou are
about so soon to act publicly in a situation of such im
portance, influence, and responsibility, I cannot refrain
from expressing my earnest hope that you will see the
maitter in the same light that I do, and that you will not
be led hastily to countenance measures which I observe
are recommended by the journals of the greatest weight
and ability pubhshed in this metropolis, and which I
therefore conclude are not unlikely to be submitted to
your consideration. Both the Times and the Morning
Chronicle of -this morning inculcate the necessity of an
immediate .general arming of the inhabitants of this
city, and the forming them into a body under the desig
nation of a Conservative Guard, or of a National
Guard — the former title being new, and the latter
borrowedL from the French Eevolution. The objections
which I feel to any example of this nature, which would
be immediately^ followed in aU the great towns through
out the empire, being set by London and Westminster,
must, I feel confident, immediately present themselves
to your own mind.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 139
'First, the formation of any such body would be
entirely iUegal and unconstitutional, unless by the
authority of~The Grown, and under the command of
officers appointed by his Majesty. Every subject of
these realms has a right to the possession of arms for
his defence ; but to form military bodies, to muster, to
array, to arm, and to train them, except by the direction
and under the control of the sovereign authority, is
clearly contrary to law, and entirely inconsistent with
the continuance of legal government in the country.
Secondly, although considerable ferment prevails
and a great disposition to violence and plunder exists
amongst certain classes of the community, there does
not_appear to me to be so great a degree of danger as
to justify^ the training to arms of all those who may be
desirous of preventing tumult and protecting property.
If it is inexpedient to train and exercise them, it is also
inexpedient to arm them, because arms, placed in un
trained hands, only produce accidental, unintended, and
unnecessary bloodshed.
Thirdly, if any^ extraordinary measures are required,
the law and the constitution clearly^ point out what they
should be. It is unnecessary to have recourse to estab
lishments with new and foreign names, or. to any other
weapons than the constable's staff. If the inhabitants
of any division of the metropolis, or of the metropolis
at large, feel apprehensive of disturbance and danger,
let them come forward and be sworn in as special con
stables ; and in that case there is a power in the magis
trates to form and arrange them in such a manner as
may render them effectual for other objects, and even
to arm them with more formidable weapons, if such
should appear to be necessary.
This letter produced little effect, since the National Political

140 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Union, with affiliated societies, was formed on October 31, and
the Government was compelled to issue a proclamation against
it on November 22.
As to Lord Melbourne's opinions on Reform it is unnecessary
to say much. He never liked the measure, and during the
debate on the second Bill in the House of Lords he frankly
admitted that he had been opposed to Parliamentary reform, and
had even opposed the enfranchisement of Manchester and Bir
mingham, but he contended that the declared will of the country
left the Legi-Slature no alternative. Having once determined to
support Reform, he supported it with energy, and was anxious
that the recess previous to the introduction of the third Bill
should be as short as possible.
Lord Pal- "Were you aware yesterday, when you turned
toTord ^^^® scale in favour of meeting in a fortnight,
Paishan'^^' "^l^^t has bccn the nature of the communica-
vemblr 20 ^ous betwceu Wliamcliffe ^ and Grey, and has
1831. Grey shown you the memorandum of their con
versation three days ago ?
I saw Wliamcliffe again the day before yesterday,
and showed him Grey's memorandum, to which he made
one or two additions, to explain more completely what
he himself had said ; and he told me that he considered
the interview as very satisfactory. He said that since
that interview he had seen several of those in the House
of Peers who thought with him, and that he was convinced
that, if any satisfactory arrangement could be made
between himself and Grey, peers enough would follow
him and Harrowby in changing their vote to ensure
the success of the Bill. He had seen Dudley and the
Bishop of London, and was going to see the Archbishop
of Canterbury and Lyndhurst.
I am convinced that if time had been allowed for this
' Lord Wharncliffe and Lord Harrowby were the leaders of the
"Waverers.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 141
negotiation it would have succeeded, and that by some
modification in the Bill, which from what Wharncliffe
said need not have been great, we could not only have
improved the measure, but have ensured a majority in the
House of Lords for that and all other purposes before
Parliament had met.
How this is now to be done I hardly see. John
EusseU is to-morrow three weeks to expound what we
call the principles, but what, as we well know from ex
perience, will be aU the details, of the Bill. From that
moment negotiation is over, because, though men are
flattered by being consulted beforehand, and may
thereby be induced to go to great lengths, it is quite a
different thing to summon them to agree to a measure
already made public, and, therefore, in which they can
not suppose it possible for them to effect any change.
But how can we expect that, with aU the other unavoid
able occupations of office, we can in the next fortnight
do any good in so comphcated an affair as communi
cating with Wharncliffe and his friends, and at the
same time going on pari passu with our Cabinet dis
cussions on the Bill ?
I fear it is hopeless ; and we shall meet Parliament
with a Bill not to our liking, and without having
secured the support of a majority in the House of Peers.
Every week would have been so much gained, as
it would have been more easy for men to have come
round. What the considerations are, connected with
this question, which arise out of the state of thiugs
at home, you, of course, are best judge ; but unless we
think of proposing new laws for the suppression of
these societies, it may be doubtful whether the good
gained in this respect by the meeting of Parliament
will counterbalance its inconvenience with regard to the

142 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
points above mentioned ; and I presume we have not at
present any measures to propose.
It is evident that Brougham has pledged himself in
conversation with Barnes ^ and others that Parliament
shoidd meet before Christmas, and is determined from
vanity to redeem his pledge, in order to show his
ascendency in the Cabinet ; and it is also equally evident
that, he fears that -ex&itement about Eeform could not
be kept up in its present degree for six yveeks. longer,
and also that these unions would disgust and alarm all
well-meaning reformers, and so prejudice the cause. I
have no doubt, also, that those out of the Cabinet who
are most clamorous for an immediate meeting are so
because they see that it would prevent all negotiation
with the moderate party, and all possibility of coming
to an understanding with them. But though these
motives may be sufficient for those whom they actuate,
they ought to influence us in a contrary direction. I
think our division unfortunate. I wish Lansdowne had
been in town, as he expressed to me the other day the
strongest possible objection to an early meeting.
Hon G The interview between Wharncliffe and Grey
LoS^Mei -^^^^ more positive results than you think for,
sundT' ^^^^ ^ ^°''® ^^® made and verified by both of
(1831). them as containing the substance of what
passed. As far as I can understand, the chief points
which it contains are the disfranchisement of the Nomi
nation Boroughs ; the extension of the constituency
where it is too small ; the limiting the new right of
voting to the boroughs to be newly created ; the re
consideration of Schedule B— some of its borouglis to be
put into Schedule A, some to be left as they are, some
' The Editor of the Times.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 143
to retain two members in conjunction with neighbouring
towns ; the decreasing the numbers of new boroughs, in
order to give in all cases two members to each.^
Wharnclifie has seen Harrowby and the Bishop of
London, and is sure of their concurrence. The terms,
he admits, are surely large enough to frame a satis
factory measure upon, but out of this course I see
nothing but confusion. Your letter alarms me ; it shows
no resource between the violent men who are employed
in framing a new measure and its absolute rejection by
the Parliament. Yet between them stands the Cabinet ;
responsibility of the measure to be proposed rests with
it ; and I have no hesitation in saying that it would be
infinitely better to break up the Government than to
be party to a proposition more democratic than the
last. There would in such a case be danger of convul
sion, but there would also be the means of forming a
new Government ; but if your measure be brought for
ward and rejected I see nothing but danger, and no
remedy. It seems clear that Grey is for moderation,
but if nobody stands firmly by him he is sure to give
way ; and it seems to me that the violent part of the
Cabinet are put in continual communication upon this
subject, and act in concert, while those who ought to
check them do not understand each other, and have no
mutual reliance or knowledge of each other's senti
ments. You may be right in your opinion of the last
Bill, but I fear you are only deceiving your own con
science about it, for I have seen you of very different
^ Schedule A enumerated the boroughs that were to be wholly dis
franchised ; Schedule B those which were to be partially disfranchised.
Schedule B was reconsidered, the number of towns selected for partial
disfranchisement being thirty instead of forty, the number in the second
Bill. GreviUe gives a somewhat different version of the bases of agree
ment {Journal, part i. vol. ii. pp. 211, 212).

144 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
opinion. At all events, the idea of a concurrence in
a more democratic measure passes my understanding,
If Wharncliffe is satisfied I can myself count seven votes
that will be changed, making a difference of fourteen.
If in addition to these Grey would put himself (as he
ought to do) in communication with the Church, and
neutralise their votes, which surely, after what has
passed, would not be very difficult, it is clear that the
Bill would pass with a very slight creation of Peers, if
any would be necessary, which I do not believe. In
opposition to this what is there to be set, unless it be
Althorp's and John Eussell's popularity with the Bir
mingham Union and aU such feUows ? ^ Is it possible
to doubt ? and if it is not, have the sound part of the
Cabinet sufficient force to compel this course ? I say
they have, and that it were better to break it up than
to be a party to the opposite one. Nor, if this determi
nation were taken, do I believe that Brougham would
be found altogether intractable. The first step to be
taken would be to gain him, and with that everything
would be easyr ; but with or without I see no other safe
course. What is chiefly wanting is courage ; all the
audacity and activity is on the other side, and where
these are success follows.
As far as the Bill is concerned, I regret the decision
about the meeting of Parliament ; it is a difficulty the
more in the way of a rational conclusion. If the state
of the country requires it I have nothing to say. It
is time, and high time, that something were done or at
least said about these pohtical unions. I forgot to
mention that Wharncliffe wishes for the division into
' Lord Althorp and Lord John Eussell were thanked by the Union
at a meeting which pledged itself to resist the payment of taxes until the
Bill was i^assed.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 145
three bills— disfranchisement, enfranchisement, regu
lation. I cannot understand Grey not having communicated
it. He asked and received Wharnchffe's assent to
doing it. It is remarkable that you have decided to
call the Parliament at the very moment that the rascally
press had begun to prepare the country for its being
put off. There is something at work which we in the
countxy cannot camprehend.
In such cases Cliarles IV. of Spain used to say there
was a woman in them. I say there is Brougham.
In February 1832 Lord Melbourne was in communication
with Lord Haddington, on behalf of the Waverers, but was
unable to exact any adequate concessions.^ Later on, though
disgusted by the violent language of Lord Durham in the
Cabinet — ' If I had been Lord Grey,' he said, ' I should have
knocked him down ' — he acquiesced, though with some reluc
tance, in the minute recommending the immediate creation of
Peers. Still, neither the conversations which Greville records
with considerable minuteness,, nor the following letter, written
to Sir Frederick Lamb when all was over, convey the impres
sion that he was at any period of the struggle an ardent
reformer. Palmerston, who is here, is goinf? to send off a
Lord Mel- . . '_ & &
bourne couricr, SO I writc one line. ... As to home
Frederick poUtics, whlch arc. Undoubtedly, in a great
Pans-' and fearful crisis, it appears to me impossible
to say anything upon them which can be relied
upon. All depends upon the working of the Eeform
Act, and upon the character of the new Parliament. I
saw by one of your letters that May had been writing
' Lord Haddington's letter is dated February 12, 18.32, but it is not
very important. Greville gives a summary (vol. ii. p. 245) of an inter
view between him and Lord Melbourne, which apparently led to the
letter. L

146 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to you in a sanguine tone upon the subject, as if none
but persons of consideration would be elected. It may
be so, but nobody can say that with any confidence at
present — certainly not until the registry of votes is
completed ; I think not until the elections have taken
place. I do not myself much like the complexion of
the public meetings of constituents of which I read in
the newspapers. They seem to me to be very violent,
to be disposed to go a great way, and to be demanding
pledges in a very positive manner, which are given
ratlier too readily and to too great an extent. The
real thing to be feared is the prevalence of the Black
guard Interest in Parliament, and I fear there will be
no inconsiderable portion of members of that descrip
tion. The election violence seems to me to be very
¦great all oyer the country, and of course will grow
worse and worse. The Cabinet is dispersed, not to
meet again until October 8, when we sliaU have many
difficult questions to settle, particularly the government
of Ireland, which there are great inconveniences in
either retaining or keeping as it is ; which latter, by the
way, we cannot do, for neither the Lord Lieutenant nor
Secretary will remain, particularly not the latter, who,
though a man of considerable abilities, and of such
abilities as are most required in this country, has about
him both the faults of great spirit, of haste, and of
rashness, and those of being discontented and disgusted.
It is hard to keep a government which has rendered
itself unpopular ; but, in my opinion, it is still worse
to change a government because it is unpopular. I,
therefore, should decidedly wish them to remain ; but
Stanley will not do so.
It is quite evident that when the new Parliament
meets we shall be jjressed to go further in reform — viz.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 147
to triennial Parliaments ; and these matters will, un
doubtedly, be mooted in the House of Commons, and
I should expect also in the Cabinet. There is no know
ing to what one may be led by circumstances, but at
present I am determined to make my stand here, and
not to advance any further.
By the waj^, I shall be much obliged to you if you
could send me any information respecting the criminal
code of the Austrian States, Hungary, &c. : Wliat crimes
are punished with death, and what punishments are
fixed to crimes not capital ; whether the punishments
are rigorously inflicted, or if remitted, and upon what
principles ; how far the penitentiary sy^stem has been
adopted, and the rules and regulations of such insti
tutions ; whether the system is effectual or not for the
prevention or detection of crime ; whether crime is on
the increase or on the decrease ; whether there is any
transportation, or any equivalent to it ; in short, any
general intelligence upon the whole subject.
The disturbance in the rural districts did not cease with the
rigorous proceedings of the Special Commission, and during the
autumn the Home Secretary was in correspondence with the
Duke of Wellington on the subject : — ¦
The Duke ^^ conscquencc of the message I received from
t°onTo Lofd your lordship, I have made enquiries respect-
wrne. ^^S ^ho existcuce of a political union in this
strltii^' county. There is every reason to believe that
fieidsaye, thcrc is oiic. Or scvcral local societies corre-
November '
3, 1832. sponding with each other- in the district of the
county extending from Winchester to Andover, in both
of which towns there is either a political union or a
principal branch of the general union. It is believed
in the county that Cobbett is the person who first

148 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
estabUshed these unions here, and that they are in com
munication with him. I do not find that any act of
outrage has been committed by these unions or by per
sons supposed to belong to them. It appears that one
peasant threatened the magistrates in the petty sessions
at Andover that, if not relieved, ' the union he belonged
to would see him righted.' The farmers are certainly a
good deal alarmed ; and there is - no doubt that these
unions, and the facilities for meeting without being
observed which the beer-houses throughout the country
give, do afford the means of combining and of commit
ting outrages by a considerable number of persons with
out risk of discovery, and with a prospect at least, which
those concerned would be apt to consider a certainty,
of protection against punishment.
It appears that the members of these unions contri
bute a penny a week each.
I believe it is impossible for the local authorities
to do more than pay the utmost attention to aU that
passes, and to act promptly and vigorously in case
any outrage should be committed. I have written
accordingly to the resident magistrates of the county,
and to the mayors of Winchester and Andover. I have
requested these gentlemen to communicate with each
other constantly, transmitting such information as each
may receive.
I am going into Kent next week to attend the Dover
Harbour Sessions, but I shall return here immediately
afterwards, and shall be ready to execute any instruc
tions that I may receive from your lordship.

Lord Mel-

I BEG leave to acknowledge your Grace's letter of
theDuk^ ^^16 3^^ \v&i., and to return your Grace my best;
ton^^^'"'° thanks for the information which it contains.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 149
Private. ^ud wliicli for the most part agrees with that
November wliicli I had picviously received. It gives me
7, 1832. great concern to learn that the mind of that
part of the country is still disturbed, and its tranquiUity
endangered, by the continued existence of political
unions. I should very much doubt whether Mr. Cobbett has
committed himself so far as he would do by placing
himself actually in communication with these bodies ;
at the same time, much both of his weekly writings and
of his acts, such as his dinner at Sutton, prove that his
attention is much fixed upon that quarter, and that he
thinks it worth his while to keep up his influence in it.
He has at various times published in his register the
names and residences of some of his principal adherents
in that neighbourhood, respecting whose character and
proceedings it might be useful to obtain some informa
tion. Further than this I know of no steps which can be
taken, either by the magistrates or by your Grace, be
yond those which your Grace states yourself in your
letter already to have recommended.
The Duke SixcE I wroto to your lordship last week on the
toi^oLOTd subject of the political unions in the county of
bourne Hants, I have received some further informa-
wlimer t^^^^ ^^ wliicli it iiiay be interesting to your
November lordsliip to reccive the communication.
7,1832. J enclose your lordship the rules of the
Barton Stacey Union. Your lordship wiU see that
these rules refer to the Winchester Union. It is not
quite clear yet whether there is one or several societies,
each acting on the same model. It is certain that an
application lately made to a man who keeps a public-

150 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
house not far from Andover, that he should let for hire
a, room in his house for a meeting to be held, ' by order
of the committee,' on the evening of Monday, November
12, was signed by ' Jo/ira Stripp, Secretary,' and dated
' Winchester National Union.'
There have been instances of menaces to farmers
who intimated an intention of lowering the wages of
the labourers in their employment from ten to nine
shillings a week. The labourers said ' that they had
received directions from the union' not to take less
than ten shillings, and that the union ' would stand by
them.' It is stated that above half of the labourers in the
county are enroUed in these societies. Not less than
twenty acknowledged the fact before the magistrates
near Andover on Saturday last. They had apphed for
relief from their parish, and the magistrates enquired
whether they did not- belong to a political union, and
had not paid sixpence entrance moneys and did not
continue to pay a penny a week. Each of them ac
knowledged the fact stated. It is understood by the
labourers that the money subscribed will be applied to
provide for their existence when they shall be unem
ployed, and to provide arms to enable them to defend
themselves. I hear a good deal of the circulation of ' Cobbett '
and the ' Poor Man's Guardian ' in this district.
I have not yet heard of any breach of the peace,
but there is evidently a good deal of alarm throughout
the county. A gentleman who resides at Barton Stacey
reports that the practice of the sounds of the bugle have
been heard at night in that neighbourhood.
There is a sufficient body of j^eomanry force in the
county of Hants, but no regular troops. If it were pos-

AT THE HOME OFFICE 15J
sible to station two or three companies belonging to the
garrison of Portsmouth in the barracks of Winchester
during the winter months, that measure might have the
effect of preventing any breach of the peace ; and at all
events these troops would give countenance and even
tual support to any measure which it might be neces
sary to adopt in case of any disturbance.
, I HAVE the honour of acknowledoino; your
Lord Mel- ^ , . b b J
bourne to Gracc's letter of the 7th inst., and returning^
the Duke °
of Welling- you my tliauks for the information which it
Private. coiivcys. Tlio rulcs of tlic Bartoii Stacey Union
WhitehaU, , . , ^ , . ., -^ -^ ^
November wiiicii your Grace has transmitted i remember
10, 1832. , "^ , T -, n n -r
to have more than once read before, and I
believe them to have been drawn up and circulated in
the country by those persons in London who designate
themselves the National Political Union, and who hold
their meetings at a house in Theobald's Eoad.
These societies are of course responsible for any
illegal language which they hold, or any acts which
they commit, otherwise I am not aware of any law
which renders their existence illegal whilst they con
tinue separate and independent ; but if, as is represented
to y^our Grace, they in any manner communicate or
correspond one with the other, the}^ render both the
society and its individual members liable to the opera
tion of the 25th section of the 57 George III. c. 19,
which is still in force, although the other parts of the
same statute have expired. Persons offending against
this law are, amongst other processes, subject to be
summarily convicted and fined ; and perhaps your
Grace may deem it advisable to call the attention of
the Justices of the Peace to this Act of Parliament, Mdth
the caution not to proceed upon it except in a very

152 LORD MELBOUENE'S PAPERS
clear case and upon very sufficient and unquestionable
evidence. I deeply regret to learn from your Grace that much
alarm prevails .iji those parts of Hampshire to which
your Grace refers. I feel assured that your Grace
will use jour utmost exertions to prevent its being
yielded to. The concessions which were made to
violence in the year 1830 have, I fear, had a perma
nently bad effect upon the character of the agricultural
population. Immediately upon receiving your Grace's letter, I
consulted with the General Commanding-in-Chief upon
the recommendation which it contained of stationing
the military force at Winchester. The garrison at
Portsmouth is too weak to furnish it, being already
harassed by the duty which it has to perform. The
whole force south of London, your Grace is well aware,
is very smaU, but I will make every exertion for the
adoption of your Grace's suggestion as speedily as
possible. I BEG leave to acknowledge your letters of the
bourne to 30th ult. and the 2nd of the present month. I
Sir H. . , . , . , ^ .
Taylor. cutircly agroc with you m the construction
December' wliich you put upou tlic addrcsscs which have
been presented to his Majesty upon the sub
ject of Holland.^
This question, like many others, is taken up without
reference to its real merits for the sole purpose of in
juring the administration. Faction and party spirit
are the prevailing vices of popular government, and
so violent are they that they often overbear, even in
1 Protests against the expulsion of the Dutch from Belgium by means
of an embargo on Dutch shipping, and the French expeditionary force
under Marshal Gerard.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 153
patriotic and honourable minds, all considerations of
pubhc utihty and even all regard to justice and truth.
It has often struck me that they are infinitely more ab
surd and injurious when they interfere with the foreign
than with the domestic affairs of a country. The public
judgment upon domestic questions is often sufficiently
erroneous, but the intervention in foreign questions of
those who are guided only by enmity and passion, who
have never given due consideration to the subject, nor
possess the means of making themselves acquainted with
the actual circumstances, can never be productive of
anything but mischief. The gentlemen who waited
upon me, I doubt not, are sincere in their disclaimer of
political motives, but no meeting has been distinguished
by greater violence or more unbounded intemperance
of language. The session of 1833 was remarkable, so far as English affairs
were concerned, for the Factory Bill, the preparation of which
fell to the Home Office. But the only portions of Lord Mel
bourne's correspondence during the year that appear of particular
interest deal with the disordered state of the country.
Lord Grey I HAD already seen a printed copy of Attwood's
Metbo^ne. letter. The object of the meeting, the discussion
st°™t'May of Miuistcrs, is certainly not illegal,^ but the
15, 1833. terms of excitement addressed to the populace,
and the means of enforcing that object by calling upon
the people ' to come together once more ' in their count
less masses, are at least dangerous to the public peace.
Whether under these circumstances similar measures to
those adopted here would be right and expedient is a
point which I am not so well able to determine, at least
' The Union declared the Government ' unable or unwilling to extri
cate the country from the difficulties and dangers with which it is
surrounded.'

154 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
without the concurrence of our colleagues, and I should
say also the opinion of the law-officers of the Crown.
That it is necessary, however, to take measures for check
ing proceedings, the avowed object of which is to over
awe the King and the Parliament by a display of
physical force, appears to me incontestable.
There seems to have been some very unpleasant
evidence given before the coroner. How came these
adverse witnesses to be the first examined ? ^
The same WiiERB SO many accounts agree, I think we may
sam'^^ May ^^^^^J coiicludc tliaf tlic Birmingham meeting
22, 1833. (^|^(j j^Qj- answer the views of Messrs. Attwood
and O'Connell ; but this new system of establishing
clubs to procure arms should be carefully watched.
The speeches are very violent and mischievous, but I
am afraid there is nothing in them which could be
successfully prosecuted. There are some passages,
however, that a good jury could not fail, I think, to
pronounce highly seditious.
I HAVE read with great concern in the papers
Lord Lans- „ -, -, r> n ^ i
downeto of to-day the account ol what must be con-
Lord Mel- . ^ -, •! PI- • ¦ i
bourne. sidcrcd tlic successtul resistance, in one instance
October'26, at least, to the payment of assessed taxes in
London ; '¦^ and thouoh I cannot doubt that your
feelings on the subject would be same with my own, I
have too strong a conviction of the mischievous effect
it may produce not to express it, as the Cabinet is at
this moment scattered.
I see every appearance, not only in London, but in
' At the Coldbath Fields meeting, a policeman was stabbed to death.
The jury returned a verdict of 'justifiable homicide.'
^ An Association was formed in Marylebone to resist the imposition of
the House Tax.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 155
almost every town I hear an}-tliing about, of the forma
tion of a Eadical party, not yet strong in numbers and
much less in influence, but which any semblance of
triumph would caU into activity, and add to its strength
many who would not be withheld by principle from
joining any popular cry the moment it appeared the
successful cause. I trust, therefore, the means may be
found of preventing any further effectual resistance to
the law, for which no effort should be spared, and Go
vernment will be supported in it now by the great
majority^ of the country.
I propose being in town in the course of a week.
In 1834 the new Poor Law was added to the Statute Book ;
but, though prepared at the Home Office from the report of the
Commission in 1832, its conduct through the Upper House was
entrusted to Lord Brougham.' Lord Melbourne's hands were
full enough however, especially when the conviction of the si.\:
Dorsetshire labourers for administering illegal oaths was fol
lowed by the monster demonstration of trades unions on April
21, which marched from White Conduit House, near King's
Cross, to the Home Office, and demanded the return of the
labourers from Australia. Lord Melbourne quietly refused to
receive the demonstration, and it was persuaded to pass on to
Newington. His arrangements generally are remembered by
the present Lord Grey, then Under-Secretary at the Home
Office, as having been particularly good.
The following letter, addressed to a Dorsetshire magistrate,
shows that, although the Home Secretary was determined to
carry out the law with firmness, he would be no party to the
straining of the law : —
' An apology is, perhaps, necessary for quoting once more the familiar
dialogue between Lord Melbom-ne and Mr. Denison, afterwards Lord
Ossington. The latter used to relate that, encountering Lord Melbourne
when about to mount his horse at the door of the otiice, he called his
attention to some required modifications in the new Poor Law Bill. Lord
Melbourne referred him to his brother George. ' I have been with him,'
was the reply, ' but he damned me, and damned the Bill, and damned the
paupers.' ' Well, damn it, what more could he do ? ' was the rejoinder.

156 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
To Mr ^^ have now had experience — very long ex-
Frampton perleiice — amongst the manufacturing popula-
fnd'confi- t^O"- of ^^^^ ^^'^^ "^^th which we are now,
South^' perhaps, destined to contend in the agricultural
Mlrch26 districts, and the safest course will be to take
183*- that experience for our guide. The farmers
stand to the labourers in the same relation as the master
manufacturers stand to their workmen. The law with
respect to both classes is substantially the same. It
may be somewhat varied by particular Acts of Parha
ment, but in general it is the same. 'By that law,
whether wise or otherwise, unions and combinations for
the purpose of raising or of lowering wages — provided
they do not resort to violence, fraud, intimidation,
illegal oaths, or acts in themselves iUegal — are legal. Is
it possible, then, for the Government to advise the
magistrates, or for the magistrates to advise the farmers,
to discharge their men for doing that which may be not
only legal, but just and reasonable? Would not the
respective parties so acting take upon themselves a
great responsibility, incur much odium, and subject
themselves to observations which it would be difficult
to reply to ?
It also occurs to me to ask very seriously whether
such a course, if recommended and adopted, would be
likely to be successful and effectual. It has always
been found difficult to obtain co-operation amongst the
master manufacturers, and the farmers are stiU more
timid, more disunited, more attentive to their particular
situation and individual interests, and at the same time
less intelligent and apprehensive. My impression is
that, if the recommendation cf the magistrates became
Yerj unpopular, or in any way seemed in danger of
failure, you would be abandoned by many of those who

AT THE HOME OFFICE 157
would at first embrace the plan, and the whole blame
would be thrown upon those who had suggested the
measure. Ton will naturally ask me, Ai-e we, then, to wait with
our arms folded whilst this combination spreads itself
throughout the peasantry, and prepares, undisturbed,
the most dangerous results ? I am compelled to answer,
that in the present state of the law and of the public
feeling, I see no safe or effectual mode of prevention.
Speaking <?andidly, it appears to me highly improbable
that an evil which has so long afflicted the manufac
turing districts should not, in the present state of
general restlessness, creep into and infest the agricul
tural parts of the country. We meet it as well as we
can. If it should assume a more dangerous character,
the immediate peril wiU probably at once suggest, and
reconcile the public mind to, the necessary measures.
I HAVE received your letter of the 29tli instant,
House^of and return you many thanks for it. I shall be
MMch 31, very glad to learn that the farmers refuse to
employ those labourers who have engaged in
the union, and I am of opinion that it will be much
better that they should do so of their own accord, and
from themselves, than upon the recommendation of the
magistrates. If they adopt such a course upon their
own responsibility they will be more likely to persevere
in it ; it will have a greater effect upon the labourers
themselves, and will be less offensive to them than it
would be if it could be attributed, as it would be, solely
to the influence and interference of the higher classes of
society. At the same time the farmers should receive
every encouragement and support in such proceedings,
always taking it for granted that they have themselves

l.rg LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
acted justly, and have not generally attempted to reduce
the wao-es of the labourers below their fair and natural
level. I say generally, because it is impossible to guard
against particular cases of hard dealing and injustice.
I omitted in my former letter to state that, a union for
legal purposes being itself legal, it appeared to me
doubtful whether a labourer who was thrown out of
employment by being discharged by his master for
belonging to a union could be refused parish relief.
I am much obliged to you for your very particular
account of the persons convicted. It proves that the
law has in this case been most properly applied. There
is nothing that strikes me as being necessary to be
added, unless you could inform me of the grounds upon
which it is stated that James and George Loveless were
active in the riots of 1830.
I had heard from Lord Shaftesbury that one of the
convicts had been too ill to be removed. He should be
removed as soon as he is sufficiently recovered.^

The King has received Viscount Melbourne's
to Lord"^ letter of y^esterday and its enclosures, and has
Melbourne. . , . . ij_j.-j.ii
Wmdsor given his serious attention to the communica-
Mlrchso, tions made by Lord Lyttelton upon the state of
the trades unions in Birmingham. The subject
had always appeared to his Majesty one of the deepest
importance to the peace and prosperity of the country
and to the interests of society, and he laments the increase
of an evil which may possibly terminate in the decay
and the natural death of the exciting causes, but which
in the meantime, and in its mischievous progress, may
1 The haste with which the labourers were despatched to Australia,
though a wise precaution, increased the clamour against the convic
tions.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 159
expos^e, in the opinion of the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, the country to much contest, incon
venience, and loss ; to menace, much alarm, and possibly
to actual commotion. Surely if such be the anticipa
tions of the Minister best situated, and therefore best
quahfied, to form an opinion on the subject ; and if it
be admitted that no remedy can be applied, that the
fire cannot be extinguished, but that it must burn until
it burns out, and has damaged and destroyed that
which it can reach, there must be something in the law
of the country which is inadequate and defective, which
requires to be amended in order to secure property, to
check menace, and to secure the country from the visi
tation of actual commotion. The various trades may
differ in their situations, their objects, views, motives,
and modes of acting, and therefore may^ not unite in
one body for the purpose of any general and simul
taneous movement — and God forbid they should ! — but
still it is admitted that there is sufficient of purpose and
union to produce actual commotion and to inflict serious
evil upon the commerce and prosperit}' of the country.
The men concerned avow their intention of aj)pealing
to brute force ; they defy the law, and they intimidate
the parties into compliance with their demands because
the law does not afford protection to those who are so
assailed. A contractor, for instance, may obtain an
extension of time, but the delay and the interruption of
his arrangements must entail serious loss upon him, and
unless supported he must end by yielding.
Upon the whole, the King cannot lose sight of the
importance of endeavouring to impose some check to
the progress of this evil, and to adopt some preventive
measures, instead of trusting to its decay after the edifice
shall have been injured ; and he is anxious that the

160 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
question should be brought under the consideration of
his Government at the approaching meeting of Cabinet.
Lord Mel- ViscoTJNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
^heKhig" *° y°^^ Majesty, and begs leave to acknow-
^^^11^2^"^^' ledge your Majesty's gracious communication
1834. Qf March 30 upon the subject of trades unions.
Viscount Melbourne feels entirely with your Majesty
that these combinations, the extent to which they have
spread, the tone which they assume, and the preten
sions which they advance, demand the utmost vigil
ance and the most serious attention of your Majesty's
servants. Viscount Melbourne, however, begs humbly to ex
plain to your Majesty that it was only out of super
abundant caution that he admitted in his letter to Lord
Lyttelton that serious commotion was a probable result
of the present state of these unions.
That they inflict loss both upon those who engage
in them and upon those against whom they are directed,
both upon the masters and the men, and consequently
upon the community at large, is a clear, undeniable
fact ; but, notwithstanding their menacing language and
attitude. Viscount Melbourne does not at present antici
pate from them any material disturbance of the public
peace. Men often threaten the most violently when they
are the most afraid, and Viscount Melbourne attributes
their present clamour to the strong impression made
upon them by the recent conviction in Dorsetshire, and
to their consciousness of the mortal blow which it
strikes at the root of the whole of their proceedings.
Viscount Melbourne partakes of the opinion ex
pressed by your Majesty that the prevalence of those
combinations affords reason to aj)preliend that there

AT THE HOME OFFICE ICl
must be something in the law of the country upon the
subject inadequate and defective, and wliich requires to
be amended. The difficulty is to discover where the
inadequacy and defect Ues, and how it is to be supphed
or corrected. That the vice is not of recent origin is
sufficiently proved by a reference to the preamble of
the 6th Geo. IV. c. 129, the Act repeahng the combina
tions laws, which preamble enumerates the statutes
enacted upon this subject.
The first of those statutes was passed in the thirty-
third year of Edward I., the last in the fifty-seventh of
George HI., and the intermediate period exhibits a list
of thirty-six English and Scotch laws, all directed to
the repression of these practices and the regulation of
the trade in this respect. The early date and the num
ber of these statutes prove at once the antiquity of the
mischief, its continued prevalence, the deep sense which
was entertained of the necessity of remedying it, and
the inefficiency of the legislative provisions adopted for
that purpose. To this long list of failure Viscount
Melbourne fears there must be added that of the 5t]i
Geo. IV. c. 95, and the 6th Geo. IV. c. 129, which
repealed all former statutes against combinations, and
enacted the law wliich is at present in force. Since the
passing of this Act the evil has undoubtedly shown
itself more manifestly and increased, but whether en
tirely in consequence of the passing of the Act it
appears to Viscount Melbourne to be im^iossible to
presume with confidence.
Upon the whole. Viscount Melbourne humbly trusts
that your Majesty will rest assured that the subject will
be considered by his Majesty's servants with that cir
cumspection which is suggested by its evident difficulty,
and at the same time with the firmness and detennina-

102 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
tion which are required by its dangerous and formidable
character. In the midst of his various occupations Lord Melbourne
found time to write a thoughtful letter to Lord Bexley, better
known perhaps as Mr. Vansittart, who had taken much interest
in the Penitentiary at Milbank, on the question of secondary
punishments : —
I AM sure you will agree with me that the
Private ... .
andconfl- priucipal aim and object of punishment which
dentiai. f . f ^ ^ -,
South it IS the duty of Government to keep steadily
street, . . . , , , . . „
April 9, m View IS to deter from the commission of
offences as far as possible ; and here it is, in
my opinion, that the institution of the Penitentiary, as
it is at present applied, is faulty and defective. In
order that a penalty may be feared, it must be sure,
beforehand,- that in certain circumstances it wiU be in
curred ; in order that punishment may be dreaded, its
infiiction must be anticipated. Now, no man knows
that in case of any delinquency he sliaU be subjected to
the discipline of the Penitentiary ; aU he knows is, that
possibly he may be. The course is, that from the whole
mass of persons convicted a certain number, whose
cases are thought to be lirfiter and to admit of more
excuse than those of the rest, or whose age and character
seem to hold out a greater hope of their ultimate re
formation, are selected to be sent to this prison, and in
this manner the principal effect of the existence of the
institution is to add another chance to the already, per
haps, too numerous chances of the criminal law. If
there be, then, any terror in imprisonment under the
various modifications by which it is regulated in the
Penitentiary, we lose by the manner in which we apply
it all the benefit and advantaa^e of that terror. I am

AT THE HOME OFFICE 1C3
anxious, therefore, to have the benefit of your opinion
upon a plan which has struck me as being calculated
to oliviate this objection, and to derive from the Peni
tentiary aU the benefit which such an establishment is
calculated to confer upon the community ; and if your
opinion be favourable to this design, I feel also confi
dent that I shall receive your assistance in carrying it
into execution.
In punishment there can, after aU, be little or no
novelty. It was known long ago what and how much
man can inflict upon man, and it is not likely now that
there should be either invention or discovery in this
respect. AU these matters, which are brought forward
with some little pomp under the names of penitentiaries,
prison discipline, panopticon, &c., and dignified with
the titles of sy^stems and theories, are, in fact, different
regulations of imprisonment for the purpose of render
ing it more effectual. I believe that these rules, by
which cleanliness and order and labour are imposed,
and silence enforced, do render it more effectual, do in
spire a greater dread of its repetition, and produce a
better frame of mind, and one that is more likely in
future to abstain from criminality, and, therefore, I
would, as speedily as possible, extend these advantages
to all imprisonment ; and with this view, and as a con
siderable step towards that end, I would propose that
the Penitentiary at Milbank should be appropriated to
the reception of offenders sentenced to confinement in
the metropolis.
It appears by returns from all the prisons in London,
Westminster, and Southwark, that the total number of
persons sentenced during the year 1833 to imprisonment
for terms varying from a single day to two years has
been no less than 14,643, of whom 11,880 have been

IC4 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
committed for periods of a month and under. The
crowded state of these prisons, occasioned by the con
finement of so great a number of offenders, and the still
more numerous committals for trial, has been productive
of the most serious evils. It has made it impossible to
enforce such a system of discipline as would render the
punishment really formidable, and it puts out of the
question any attempt of protecting less hardened
offenders, and those who are only committed for trial,
from the contagion of intercourse with the most
abandoned criminals. Both of these ends might be
answered in a very great degree by the employment of
the Penitentiary in the manner which I have above
suggested. In spite of the pressure of business Lord Melbourne, while
Home Secretary, did not relinquish his habits of study. A letter
from the Principal Librarian of the British Museum ' shows that
he was at this time investigating early dramatic literature, and
enquiring after the following books : —
Dr. Rainold's ' Overthrow of Stage Plays.' U. 1599.
Master Northbrook's ' Treatise against Vaine Plays and
Interludes.' 1577.
Stephen Gosson's ' Plays Confuted in Five Actions.' About
1581. Stubbe's ¦' Anatomie of Abuses.' 12d. 1585.
Heywood's ' Apology for Actors.' id. 1612.
J. G.'s (John Green's) ' Refutation of Heywood's Apologia.'
IfilS. The entries in the Commonplace Book, the last of which were
made in 1832 and 1833, show that he was still reading his
favourite authors, Aristotle and Thucydides, Clarendon and
Burnet. One of the last entries is a quotation of the well-known
lines from the ' Henriade ' (chap. i. p. 7) —
Mais Henri s'avanpait vers sa grandeur supreme
Par des chemins caches, inconnus d lui-meme —
' Sir H. Ellis's letter is dated February 21, 1834.

AT THE HOME OFFICE 105
with the comment : ' The case with every great man. Much of
what is attributed to design, accident ; an unknown cause lead
ing to an unknown end.'
Lord Melbourne's theological reading, which was consider
able, was probably begun somewhat later ; at any rate, no record
of it has been preserved.

163 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE VI
IRISH AFFAIRS
1830-1834
Unsatisfactory as was the condition of England on the acces
sion of Lord Grey's Government to power, the state of Ireland
was even worse. It was calculated that one-fifth of the popu
lation was out of employment, and the tithe war had begun in
the west and in the south. Side by side with the agrarian
difficulty there was, as usual, a political agitation. O'Connell
had hardly effected Catholic Emancipation when he raised the
banner of Repeal, and that for the moment seemed to the
Cabinet to call for the more serious attention. In the Instruc
tions to the new Lord Lieutenant, Lord Anglesey, the Home
Secretary wrote that —
A great ferment and agitation prevails in the pubhc
mind in Ireland, occasioned and excited by the ques
tion of the Eepeal of the Union, which, although dis
approved by the great majority of the rank and wealth
of the country, is stated to have made considerable
progress amongst the middle and lower orders, and to
be promoted and encouraged by some of the Eoman
Catholic priesthood. Several meetings have been held
in different parts of the country upon this question, at
which the most inflammatory language has been uttered,
and rebellious designs and intentions, if we are rightly
informed, have been openly avowed. Any notion of
the Eepeal of the Union your ExceUency will dis-

lUISH AFFAIRS 167
courage and discountenance in the strongest manner
in your power, and you wiU use every effort to allay
excitement, and to prevent the agitation of the question.
Lord Anglesey was directed to permit such meetings, so
long as they were legally assembled for a legal purpose" even
including the discussion of Repeal ; but to prohibit them by
proclamation if they should betray or manifest a design to
renew under any name the Roman Catholic Association.
The following letters relate partly to the unsuccessful efort
to secure the adherence of O'Connell by office,' and the trial of
strength which ensued so soon as Lord Anglesey arrived in
Ireland.Lord Mel- You wUl eitlicr by the same post as carries
toLOTd you this letter or by the next receive the
PrivateT' Instructions which we have drawn up and
Semt. agreed upon. Grey will write to you about the
December Attomey-Gcneral. Upon full consideration of
18, 1830. ^];^g subject, and consultation with Doherty,^ I
am of the same opinion as he is, that Blackburne is the
best appointment upon the whole that can be made.^
Sir Henry ParneU^ having pressed upon me in
the most urgent manner the necessity of gratifying
O'Connell, I desired my brother to communicate to him
for his satisfaction what had passed between O'Connell
and you at his last interview, and your conviction that
it was hopeless to entertain any further expectation of
conciliating him. He said that, whatever had passed, be
^ See the account of the negotiations in Mr. Fitzpatriok's Correspon
dence of Daniel O'Connell (vol. i. pp. 237-239).
' The Solicitor- General for Ireland; he had held the ofBce under the
Duke, and O'Connell was very indignant when he was not removed.
' The appointment was, however, strongly denounced, as Blackburne
was a decided Tory, and had been President of the Special Commission
which sat in 1823 to try the rioters in Limerick and Clare.
* Sir Henry Parnell was member for Queen's County. He became
Secretary at War in 1831.

108 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
was of a different opinion, and that no reliance was to
be placed upon any declaration made by O'ConneU,
however vehement and decided, and that he was cer
tain he would immediately accept any direct offer that
was made him. He mentioned the Chief Baron's place ;
but that being filled up, the only opening that remained
was the Master of the EoUs, in case Macniahon should
resign it, a step which he contemplated taking. I
enclose you a letter which Sir H. Parnell sent me upon
this matter, and which, as y^ou will see by reading it,
he wrote after having conversed with Wyse,^ whose
opinion it also contains. Wyse knows O'Connell weh,
at the same time he is in his heart not .friendly to him,
and may perhaps entertain of him a worse and lower
opinion than he deserves. This matter has been con
sidered by the Cabinet, and they wiU have no objection
to the arrangement if it could be effected, on the con
trary, would greatly approve it. O'ConneU as Master of
the EoUs would be perfectly harmless. The Court has, I
believe, but little business ; what there is relates almost
entirely to the distribution of property, and he would
have no opportunity of making speeches, as he would
have if he were placed at the head of the Common Law
Courts, upon the various occasions of giving charges to
Grand Juries, passing sentences upon prisoners, &c.
This matter, j^ou wiU be aware, must be managed
with the greatest secrecy and discretion, and the inten
tion must not be suffered to transpire until it is certain
it can be carried into execution. The great point is to
secure Macmahon's resignation ; the next, O'Connell's
acceptance. I do not know Macmahon's feelings, but
perhaps he would be unwilling to give way if he knew
' The historian of the Catholic Association, afterwards Secretary to
the Board of Control (1846-49) and Minister at Athens (1849-1862).

IRISH AFFAIRS 169
who was destined to be his successor. AU these possi-
bihties must be taken into consideration, and the matter
proceeded in with that caution which its dehcacy and
importance demands. I hope you are pretty well, and
have not suffered from your journey.
^^^^ I HAVE received your letter of the 18th. You
to^LOTd^ will judge that I am pleased, as I suggested
Melbourne, such a stcp in my letter of yesterday night ; I
December do uot, howovcr, expcct succcss from it. Mv
21, 1830. . . . ^ *'
conviction is, as I have already said and writ
ten, that O'ConneU is not to be had. He is flying at
higher game than a judgeship, and he is secure of a
better income from the deluded people than ajiy Govern
ment can venture to give to any person whatever. Still,
you are bound to make every effort to gain him ; for
unless y^ou do, he and not the Government wiU rule
Ireland. It is idle and absurd to shut your eyes to the
degrading fact. We have now positively nothing to
look to but the army. You see the tone of the Protes
tants ; you see how they take Gregory's removal.^
That measure, whicli formerly would have chained the
Catholics to my car, wiU now pass unnoticed by them,
but wiU be a ralljdng point for the ill-humour and disgust
of the Protestants. I have been ruminating upon the
measure of endeavouring to enregiment the well-affected
of Dublin upon the first symptom of real mischief. The
College, the trades, the shopkeepers, might have been
useful, even the lawyers ; but now all appears against
us, and I fear any attempts of the sort would only
expose our weakness.
I do not receive a single letter from my many
friends and well-wishers who do not write in dee])
' The Under-Secretary was Sir William Gosset.

170 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
despondency. All of every side attribute much of the
mischief to Doherty's appointment ; I believe it to have
been a bad one, but I am sure it has little to do with
the line taken by O'Connell. I tell you he looks far
beyond anything we can do for him. Doherty is merely
the pretext for hostility. If that had iiot presented
itself, he would have found another. . . .
When I was popular, and really had Ireland almost
at my foot, I calculated much upon the attractions of a
splendid Court, which would first have drawn many of
the absentees to Dublin, and then have sent them down
to their counties. This would have been a work of
more than one session, but I am sure that in the then
temper of the people it would have effected much, and
a few yards of title for O'ConneU would have secured
repose. I have no hope of any such result now. Still
I dare not venture to recommend anything which
should have the appearance of tending to reduce the
circulation of money in the country. If anything can
save it, it will be an ample and immediate grant for the
employment of the people in draining bogs, making
roads, &c., &c. If you cannot do that, j'ou cannot
hold Ireland under an Imperial Parliament, and there
fore, ultimately, not at all. In respect of health, I still
just hold my head up, but I am sadly threatened. I
pray for a good day on Thursdaj^, when, please God, I
will put a yerj ungrateful people (or rather, let me say,
a deluded people) to shame, and show them that I ride
the same pace through an affectionate as through an
insultinef crowd.
Lord Mel- I YESTERDAY received yours of the 4th inst., to-
Mr"stau° getlicr with Anglesey's of the second.
ley. South With respect to remedial measures, we are

IRISH AFFAIRS 171
January 7, ^^^ awarc that you can have but httle time for
1831- the consideration or preparation of them at
present. We are pretty weU pressed, or rather op
pressed, with the current business here, but we wiU
make every exertion to assist you. I had on Sunday a
very full conversation with Eice, Newport, and Dun
cannon ^ upon the subjects which I mentioned to you
in my former letter. I hope to be able shortly to send
you a minute of what passed, and also the heads of a
Bill for your consideration on the subject of the Grand
Jury presentments, which appear to us the most urgent
of all the topics, as affecting the most deeply and ex
tensively the propertjr of the country. Perhaps you
will in return communicate the principal provisions of
your intended Yestry Bill. It appears to me that it
should repeal the former BiU, re-enact its remedial
clauses, the appeal, &c., embody Goulburn's letter, and
throw the burden of the rate upon the owner instead of
the occupier.
Education is a most thorny and difficult question.
I entirely agree with y^ou in all the principles which
you lay down, and also in all the qualifications of those
principles which your discretion suggests to you.^ Por
those grants which have been already condemned by
Parliament, you are expected to bring about their
final extinction with all practicable celerity, and you
' Mr. Spring Rice was Secretary to the Treasury ; Sir J. Newport,
member for Waterford. Lord Duncannon, Commissioner of Woods and
Forests, was a great authority on Irish affairs as a resident and popular
Irish landlord.
^ Mr. Stanley's proposal was "'the gradual withdrawal of grants from
societies for exclusive education, and the extension of Parliamentary aid
to a system of combined education, if a system could be matured which
would produce that effect, and give general— he could not say universal-
satisfaction.' It was on those lines that the Education Bill of 1832
was framed.

172 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
will receive a Treasury minute, which will convey to
you the intentions of the Government upon this sub
ject. With respect to the Kildare Street Society, of
which I fully admit with you the merits and the ad
vantages, and any other institutions which it may be
advisable to form for the purpose of education, it is
suggested by Eice, and I communicate it to you for
your consideration, that the whole sum intended to
promote this object in Ireland should be voted at once
in gross, to be applied and distributed by the Irish
government according to their judgment and discretion.
This possession of funds would give to the Lord Lieu
tenant and the Chief Secretary a weight of authority
with the Kildare Street Society, for instance, which they
have never yet possessed, and which would hardly be
resisted. Hitherto the Government has always to con
tend with them at a disadvantage, they (the Society)
having the funds for the present year already indepen
dently in their hands, and the only argument which
the Lord Lieutenant has had it in his power to use to
them has been the danger that, unless they comphed
with his recommendation. Parliament would in the next
year refuse the grant ; a danger which was in some de
gree distant, and which, as it never yet had been, the
usual confidence of human nature led them to think
never would be, realised. But if the Lord Lieutenant
were enabled to say to them, ' I have the power of
withholding this money, and unless you are reasonable
I will exercise that power,' it appears to me probable
that his advice would be somewhat more effectual than
it hitherto has been found to be.
Your observations upon Maynooth and the Eoman
Catholic clergy are very sound and just. The subject
must have verj'' serious attention paid to it, and that

IRISH AFFAIRS 173
speedily ; but it is so large and so important that I am
obhged to quit it for the present.^
The same ^ ^^^^^' rcceivcd froui his Majesty the warmest
to the and most decided approbation of the measures
same. Pri- t . n
™te.Honie which the Lord Lieutenant has adopted for
January is, supprcsslug thc illegal meetings attempted to be
assembled by Mr. O'ConneU. This approbation
is entirely concurred in by aU the Ministers, and you
may feel sure of the most cordial and determined sup
port in any steps which you may think it necessary to
take under the very diflicult and arduous circumstances
in which you are placed.
Por my^self, and I believe I express the opinion of
others — I know I do of Lord Grey — I have never enter
tained the slightest doubt that it would be found neces
sary to renew the 9th Geo. IV. c. 1. The long and
most unfortunate delay in granting the Eoman Catholic
claims suffered the habit of public meetings and public
harangues, of combination and association, to become
so inveterate in Ireland, and established the personal
weight and influence of Mr. O'Connell to such a degree
that I see no prospect, without the aid of such a mea
sure, of preventing an assembly being constituted in
Dublin which will possess more power in that country
' ' As to the grant to the CoUege of Maynooth,' wrote Mr. Stanley, ' I
would press upon the Government to consider whether the grant might
not be with great advantage got rid of — or rather merged in one of much
larger extent — for the payment, during good behaviour, of the Catholic
clergy. ... It seems to me that a vote of a large amount to the clergy,
considered as a measure of police, might be a cheap bargain, and would
stand upon grounds quite different from, and far less objectionable than,
one of not one-tenth the amount for an exclusive education in limits we
deem erroneous.' It is hardly necessary to say that the scheme, which
has been powerfully advocated within recent years by Mr. Matthew
Arnold, has never been carried out, partly owing to religious feeling in
Eno-land, partly to tlie Eadical opposition to religious endowments.

174 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
than the Imperial Parliament. But it also appears to
me clear and certain that it will be necessary not only
to renew, but to strengthen the law, and to frame some
provisions which shall meet the various shifts and de
vices by which Mr. O'Connell has lately been attempting
to check or defeat the operation of the Act.^ His ob
jects are clear and undisguised. He does not take the
trouble to attempt to conceal them under any plausible
pretext. You have, of course, already fuUy considered
whether there is no law — common or statute — at present
in existence by which he can be reached, and you wifl
lose no time in directing your own attention and that
of the law officers to the difficult task of discovering
such new enactments as may, either by giving a more
extended operation to the proclamation, or by subjecting
the individual who shall manifest an open intention of
breaking the law to penal consequences, prevent for the
future the adoption of a course similar to that which
Mr. O'Connell is at present pursuing. I am well aware
that it will be no easy matter to reconcile such a law
with the constitutional right of discussion and petition,
a right which none of us wish to infringe upon or re
strict ; but I trust means may be found for repressing
turbulence and sedition without interfering with these
important privileges of the subject.
I send you by this post three keys — the one a master-
key, the other two belonging respectively to the two
boxes, which may be used for any secret correspond
ence. Do you still think that precautions of this kind are '
necessary? Everyone invariably is of that opinion
' By assembling meetings under the guise of public breakfasts, by
forming new associations as fast as the old ones were dissolved, and so
forth.

IRISH AFFAIRS 175
when first they go to Ireland, and as invariably gets rid
of it after a month or two of residence there.
The same ADVERTING again to your letter of the 14th inst.,
same' ^ud also to your letter of the 18th inst. received
Private. ^i^-g morning, respecting the immediate and
jamiary scverc dlstrcss which is apprehended in certain
20, 1831. districts of the west and north-west of Ireland,
I have only to observe that you must, of course, take
with sufficient promptitude such measures as are neces
sary to meet the emergency^ I find that in the summer
of 1822, besides the large sum voted for the construc
tion of public works in Ireland, a vote of credit for
100,000/. was taken, and that money placed at the dis
posal of the Lord Lieutenant for the immediate relief of
those parts of the country which were suffering under
the scarcity- of provisions which prevailed at that
period. You are weU aware of the permanent evil which is
produced in the habits and character of the population
by largesses either of food or of money, and you are
also well aware how liable a government is to be im
posed upon in such matters by false representations, and
by the fraudulent schemes of avarice and self-interest.
The Lord Lieutenant will therefore, no doubt, exercise
the utmost caution, and will take care to ascertain
upon authority which cannot be doubted or disputed
the existence of distress so urgent as to make the inter
ference of the Government absolutely and indispensably
necessary. If you should be persuaded of the estab-
hshment of such a case as irresistibly demands your
interference in furnishing the means of subsistence, you
wiU'recur to the experience of the year 1822, to which
I have alread^' referred, and of the transactions of which

176 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
you will obtain full information from Mr. Gregory and
others. This experience will probably enable you to
avoid many errors which were then committed, to de
tect many frauds then successfuUy practised, and, upon
the whole, to conduct this difficult and questionable
measure in the manner calculated to afford the greatest
immediate relief, and to produce the least possible of
permanent evil. If I remember right, the distribution
of the provisions, and the arrangement of the whole
transaction, was then conducted principally through
the Commissariat department.
The same ^ SEND you by to-uiglit's post a copy of the
sam^^ proposed new Sub-letting Act,^ which you will
Home**' have carefully considered by the law officers.
ji^uary ^® ^^^ auxious, if possiblc, for the purpose of
22, 18B1. expediating the business of the session" and of
somewhat dividing the labour, to introduce some of
these remedial measures into the House of Lords in the
first instance. This is impossible with respect to the
Bill for public works, or those for the regulation of the
Grand Juries and Vestries, they being in fact aU of
them measures of taxation. But I do not myself see
anything which should prevent this course being taken
with the Sub-letting Bill. But if this is to be the case,
I should be anxious to be furnished with some better
ground for repealing the former Bill than any with
which I have yet been made acquainted. I never did
whilst I was in Ireland, nor have I since, seen one case
in which it had been clearly made out that this law
had operated oppressively, or indeed that it had operated
' The first Sub-letting Act, the object of which was to prevent the
multiplication of holdings, was passed in 1826. Compare Lord Mel
bourne's correspondence with Bishop Doyle, given by Mr. Torrens (i.
361-3G2) from Mr. Fitzpatrick's Biography.

IRISH AFFAIRS 177
at all ; and if I were now called upon to state why it
should be repealed, I know not what I should be able to
urge, further than that it had been made very unpopu
lar by the invectives and misrepresentations of Mr.
O'Connell ; an argument which, however reasonable it
may be to act upon, it would not be either convenient
or becoming to avow. Pray try to furnish us with
some decent and creditable reasons.
At last the duel between the Lord Lieutenant and O'Connell
was brought to an end by the arrest of the agitator on January
19. Lord Anglesey wrote in high spirits : —
„ ^ , Stanley will detail to you what O'ConneU is now
To Lord _ _ _ •'
Melbourne, at. Ho is at liis wit's end. The rent has totally
Dublm, _ _ _ _ -^
January failed. His Tuu upon the bank is universally
22, 1831. _ -"^ . •'
execrated. There are not six respectable men
throughout Ireland that stick to him. Pie is beat to
pieces in his law,^ and the Attorney-General, who has
this moment left me, is most decidedly of opinion that
a letter or speech (I forget which), published in the
Freeman or Register this morning, is more inflam
matory, more treasonable, and more tangible than any
thing that has yet appeared. I have not yet seen the
article. Blackburne is most sanguine, most eager, most
confident. It is my business not to be borne forward
beyond the bounds of prudence, and to be calm whilst
these lawyers are so elated with fair prospects of
victory. In the meantime O'ConneU is trying his manoeuvres
with Lords Meath-and Cloncurry, but they wiU be quite
1 O'Connell made the mistake of demurring to the first fourteen counts
of the indictment, whereby he admitted the facts, but disputed the legality
of the proceedings. He was aUowed to withdraw the demurrers, and to
plead ' not guilty ' to the whole indictment. N

178 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
guarded, and will not trust him in any way whatever.^
They will most particularly state that they cannot pos
sibly be the mediums of communication between the
Government and him. That, in fact, the Government
will not negotiate but will act ; and / am to be repre
sented as not approachable upon terms. That I am
filled with amazement at his baseness and ingratitude.
In fact, that I am a very Turk at least. This may have
some effect upon his coward mind.^ Of course I am
not to be supposed to know anything whatever of the
occurrence. You are, I am happy to say, anticipated about the
aid of provisions. Whilst I have, on the one hand,
sent down Major Carter into the district the most pressed,
and where the people have actually stopped the expor
tation of grain, with an increased force of constabulary
and a few soldiers, and have also desired my brother the
Admiral to send a cruiser to BeUmuUet to communicate
with the Preventive Service there and with Major Carter;
on the other hand, I have desired that an immediate
supply of potatoes may be sent to those poor people
who really are in utter want, all their potatoes being
one mass of maggots. Care will be taken that they
shall not starve. The magistrates and merchants con
nected with BeUmuUet have subscribed about 300/., and
I propose to meet them with a similar sum, exacting,
however, labour for what is distributed. Upon the
whole, I think the magistrates are showing more zeal
and activity. What I now most dread is the unruly
^ Tlie negotiations with Lord Meath and Lord Cloncurry broke down
because they declined to pledge themselves to the future support of Repeal
(Fitzpatrick, i. 245).
'^ O'ConneU, as a matter of fact, did shrink from a collision with the
Government, and offered to let judgment go against him by default, a pro
posal which was accepted by tlie Attorney-General.

IRISH AFFAIRS 179
loyalty of the Orangemen. If we can but instil a little
sober sense into them, we may perhaps weather all our
difficulties. I am happy in being able to state with considerable
confidence that, taking the whole surface of Ireland
together, there is ample food until the next harvest ; at
the same time there are districts (generaUy not very
extensive) in which there is not a single sound potato.
If you give us an early and liberal supply of money for
public works, and thereby enable us to employ the
people— if you are quick with your remedial Bills— I
shaU hope to fend off insurrection, and, if we can reach
the summer without it, Ireland may y^et prosper.
I had intended to write to Lord Grey, but I found
that I had not time. Of course you will communicate
this to him.

In your letter, received y^esterday by Lord Grey,
bourne to I observc that you say towards the conclusion
the Mar- r. • ¦,
quessof of it that thc courso to be observed towards
co^- O'Connell will require the most serious con-
Home ' sideration of the Government. Now I cannot
March 31, liclp immediately writing to y^ou my distinct
and decided opinion that, though I know the
matter to be one of the highest importance and which
may lead to the most serious consequences, yet that
there is but one line to be taken, and that such a one
as admits neither of doubt nor of question. The law
must proceed in its usualand accustomed course. You
must bring him up for judgment, leave the Court to
pronounce such sentence as to it seems good, and the sen
tence so pronounced must be carried into execution, as
it would be in the case of any other delinquent. After
the language which has been held by the Irish govern-

180 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
ment, after the measpres which have been adopted, and
pledged as you are over and over again to enforce the
law, any shrinking at this moment, any compromise,
any legal schemes or device to avoid the difficulty,
would, in my opinion, cover all of us who have engaged
in these transactions with the greatest and most in
delible ignominy. If you are, as I trust you are, of
this opinion, you will do well to express it strongly
to Lord Grey and the Government here. The question
is now brought to issue whether O'ConneU or the King's
Lieutenant is to govern Ireland ; and it is a question
which in my apprehension it is worth while to try at
any risk which can possibly be apprehended from
bringing it to a decision.
It was, however, as will be seen, decided by the majority of
the Cabinet that the Irish Attorney-General should consent to
the postponement of the trial, and the Act under which O'Con
nell had been convicted expiring with the dissolution, sentence
was never pronounced. The compromise was a mistake, and it
would appear from the following letter that it was made against
Lord Melbourne's wishes : —
We had yesterday a Cabinet, at which the con-
bourne to duct to bc pursuod towards O'Connell was fully
the Mar- ^ ^ -, ^ ^ . /
quessof discusscd, aiid the same conclusion come to
Home as at the meeting which we before had at
Office, -,-,¦-, 1
April 4, Broughams, and at which were present the
Chancellor, Crampton,^ Stanley, and myself —
viz. that if O'Connell should, when he comes up for
judgment, propose to move in arrest of judgment,
this proposal should be acceded to by the Attorney-
General, and that thus the necessary delay of hearing
the arguments, &c., might postpone the final sentence
^ Mr. Philip Crampton became Solicitor-General for Ireland in the
place of Doherty.

IRISH AFFAIRS 181
for a considerable period of time. This appears to me
to be the utmost extremity to which it is possible to
go. If he does not do this, the proceedings must
in my opinion go on in their usual course. I see no
other alternative. If the Government should at this
moment show any disposition to alter its tone, or to
escape from the effect of its own measures, the Pro
testants wiU lose aU confidence in it, and the Eoman
Catholics, though they may not venture to express their
disapprobation so loudly, wiU feel it as deeply, inas
much as they wiU see no hope of ever escaping from
the despotic domination to which they are at present
subjected, and under which those of them who have
either sense or spirit must necessarily be impatient. I
am weU aware of the difficulties and even dangers
which await you if you go forward, but in my judg
ment they will be found to be greatly exaggerated,
and, even admitting them to their fullest extent, they
are as nothing in the balance when weighed against the
greater perils of anything which resembles retractation.
If you and Plunket and the Attorney-General are of this
opinion, a pretty strong expression of it would be of
service and not unseasonable.
I hope the precautions which you have taken will
restore something like a state of order in Clare. I dare
say the excitement for the repeal of the Union may
subside. It is very artificial, and founded upon no real
grounds ; but the question which y^ou mention as likely
to take its place is one of a most fearful and appalling
character, too probable, I fear me, to arise, quite
different in its nature, produced by real grievance and
suffering, and altogether of such an extent and difficulty
that I see no means of dealing with it safely either by
force or by conciliation. Adieu.

182 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
The state of portions of Ireland, especially the counties of
Clare, Limerick, Gal way, and Roscommon, had convinced Lord
Melbourne several weeks before that a stringent measure was
necessary for the preservation of peace. In Clare, wrote Lord
Anglesey in answer to his enquiries, there was exhibited ' dis
tinct evidence of the existence of organised and associated
bodies, comprising almost the whole population of the county,
united by oaths, acting in concert, and at the same time pre
scribing regulations destructive of the right of property, and
enforcing obedience to them through the exercise of lawless
force or the influence of a general and prevailing system of
intimidation.' In other words, the Whitefeet and the Black-
feet were supreme, and the tithe war had entered upon its
active stage. Lord Melbourne, however, seems to have laid
greater stress upon the political agitation.

I HAVE received your two last letters, together
Lord Mel- . •' , . °
bourne to With tlic rcport whicli lias been transmitted to
the Mar- „ , -, , . . , .
quessof Stanley, and have lost no time m layms; all
Anelesev. ./ o
Secret and thcsB documeiits bcforc liis Majesty and also
tial. Home bcforc my colleagues. All highly approve of
February the mcasurcs you have taken, and trust that
they will have the effect of preventing tumults
from spreading very extensively or assuming a very
,?erious aspect. The statements of the distress of the
country appear to be frightful, but it will, of course,
engage your active attention, and receive, under proper
jirecautions, every alleviation which the Government is
capable of affording.
The question has not yet been discussed in the
Cabinet, but I can have no doubt that the decision will
be to propose to Parliament the renewal of 9 Geo. lY.
c. 1. It appears to me that without the possession of
the powers conferred by that Act no Lord Lieutenant
on your side, nor no Ministry on this side of the water,
could venture to be responsible for the tranquillity of

IRISH AFFAIRS 183
Ireland, or for the continuance of its connection with
Great Britain.
It appears to me, however, upon consideration of
the subject, and writhig to you in strict confidence
entirely from myself and without consultation with
any others, that even this law, coupled with the other
laws at present in force to which you have adverted,
will be insufficient to maintain the tranquillity and
secure the safety^ of Ireland, unless some measure can
be adopted which will effectuaUy prevent and sup
press the system of perpetual excitement and irritation
which is at present so sedulously and perseveringly
acted upon in that country. If Mr. O'Connell, Mr.
Steele, Mr. CosteUo,^ or anyone who thinks proper, is to
possess the power, as is the case at present, of seizing
advantage of every moment of discontented feeling, of
taking an active and prominent part in every election,
of making circuits of the whole country, and of con
voking of their own authority public meetings upon
any subject in every city, county, and district, although
he may possess no property nor any natural connection
whatever with such place, I do not see how the public
mind can ever be expected to subside into contentment,
or how any other result is to be looked for but per
petual disquietude, increased political violence, and
ultimately revolt and civil war. I am well aware how
difficult it is, consistently with the general principles of
our law, to frame any enactment whicli shall meet this
great and growing evil. The Insurrection Act has no
provision suited to the emergency. It is directed princi
pally against nocturnal outrages. The acts we have to
guard against are committed in the face of day. The
1 Tom Steele, afterwards ' Head Pacificator ' of the Eepeal Associa
tion, and Pat CosteUo were two of O'ConneU's most active supporters.

1S4 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act is a measure from
its nature necessarily of a temporary character, and
adapted only to a crisis which is expected speedily to
be determined. I am afraid this hope cannot be enter
tained upon this occasion. It was always my opinion,
notwithstanding the clamour raised against the measure,
that the provisions of the Act generally caUed by the
name of the Seditious Meetings Bill, were in themselves
highly reasonable and expedient, and such as ought to
form a part of the perpetual code of every people who
wished to live in peace and security under a popular
government. The object of this law was to prevent
any men, or set of men, from going at any time into
any place, and then, of their own authority, convoking
a meeting of the populace of that place to discuss any
measure which it seemed good to them to propose for
discussion. The mode of attaining this object was by
requiring that there should be some authority for hold
ing a meeting founded in the natural weight and re
spectability of the community, such as the consent of
the Lord Lieutenant, the High Sheriff, or a requisition
signed by a majority of the Grand Jury or a certain
number of freeholders. I do not say that the enact
ments of this Bill would suit L-eland, or that they would
be effectual for the purpose I have in view ; but I wish
you would call the attention of the Lord Lieutenant and
Attorney-General to the subject, and consult with them
whether, in the first place, the evil which I point out is
not, after all the measures which have been taken with
such success, still formidable, and whether in order to
meet it some blow must not be struck in the quarter
which I have designated. I again repeat that I write
this entirely from myself for the purpose of bringing
the subject under your consideration, and not in

IRISH AFFAIRS 185
consequence of consultation with my colleagues, but
rather with a view of obtaining information and de
vising measures which may hereafter be submitted to
them. The Government, however, was otherwise engaged, and the
tithe war continued through the whole of 1831, reports of
organised riots, outrages on tithe proctors, and pitched battles
with the police pouring into the Home OfBce with monotonous
regularity. The earlier months of 1832 were, however, devoted
to a considerable extent to Irish affairs, and, though the Govern
ment still shrank from coercion, Mr. Stanley carried his Educa
tion Bill, and a stop-gap Tithe Bill, by which the Ministry was
authorised to advance 60,000L to the distressed Irish clergy,
and empowered to collect the arrears of tithe. A Jury Bill was
also passed, concerning the expedience of which Lord Melbourne
had some doubt. Would not the result be, he asked Sir William
Gosset, to put on juries 'barbarians from the mountains, who
neither speak English nor know right from wrong ' ?
The new Tithe Bill was, however, as diflicult to enforce as
its predecessors, and Lord Anglesey's heart began to fail him.

Lord Mel- I OUGHT bcforc tliis to havo noticed your letter
theMlr-" of the 24th inst., with the enclosures. I was
A?gTes°ey. inclined at first to think but lightly of the burn-
Sonth ^' ^^^S turfs, but if Vivian's ^ suggestion be true,
Jme 30 that it is a scheme for ascertaining how quickly
1SS2. intelligence may be transmitted throughout the
whole of the country — that is, in other words, how
soon the whole of the Eoman Catholic population may
be caUed upon to rise — it must be admitted to be rather
a formidable prognostic.
I am sorry you think the measures which have been
taken respecting tithe iU-ad vised. I own that I, on the
other hand, cannot help being of opinion that we have
1 Sir Hussey Vivian was Commander of the Forces in Ireland.

186 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
been ratlier slack and inactive in this matter, and that
steps of a more decisive character ought to have been
adopted long ago. Depend upon it, if the abolition of
this payment is effected by force, the violence which
has been so successful will immediately be extended
farther. It is according to human nature and common
sense that it should be so. Eents, taxes, &c., may be
very well paid now — probably the better because the
country^ is relieved from the tithe ; but the Irish, who
are the most conspiring people on the face of the earth,
have sagacity enough to fight one point at a time, and
to collect and combine all their strength for the purpose
of carrying one sensible object. But, this being attained,
arguments, not perhaps so strong, or perhaps you will
say so sound, as in the case of tithe, but sufficiently
plausible to combine and justify resistance to other
demands, will easily be found by the perverse and
interested ingenuity of the popular leaders. Give the
Bill fair play ; act with judgment and caution, but act
with firmness. Above all, do not despond, nor suppose
that the object cannot be effected. You have a very
violent and a very noisy people to deal with, but
not a very courageous people, particularly not morally
courageous ; and I have still hopes that the way may
be prepared for a more satisfactory settlement of the
question, as it undoubtedl}^ ought to be, by a re-
establishment of the authority of the law, which is at
present despised and trodden under foot. That it should
be so whilst I have anything to do with the Govern
ment gives me, I own, great pain, and affects me with
a feeling of deep humiliation and disgrace. There is
hardlyr any conceivable situation in Avliich I would not
rather be placed.

IRISH AFFAIRS 187
Lord Plunket has communicated to me and to
llie same
to the Lord Grey and to Mr. Stanley the letter which
same. "^ -'
^^^-fV „ ^^^ ^'^^^ received from you this morning.
Wliitehall, *' «^
July 10, We entirely agree with you that it is absc
issa. -JO J
lutely necessary to act with firmness, prompti
tude, and energy. Such a meeting as that which is
described as to have taken place at Mydterard on the
5th inst. cannot be tolerated. The proceedings which
took place upon that occasion amount to the establish
ment of a tyranny of the most oppressive character, and
vested in such hands as are sure to employ it in the
most violent and capricious manner. Lord Plunket
will immediately see Mr. Crampton for the purpose of
consulting upon the form of proclamation forbidding all
such illegal acts, and warning his Majesty's subjects not
to take part in them. If this public injunction be dis
regarded, it will be necessary to prevent by force all
such tumultuous assemblies, and to disperse them if
they should take place. Lord Plunket will immediately
take measures respecting the magistrates whose con
duct you have brought under his consideration, and
will write to you by to-night's post generally upon the
subject of your letter.
P.S. — Nothing which I have stated in the above
letter is intended in the slightest to fetter you in the
adoption of any discretional measures which you may
think the immediate exigency of the circumstances calls
upon you to take, or to imply that any previous pro
clamation is absolutely^ necessary before measures are
taken against an iUegal assembly. If such proclamation
be recommended, it is only for the sake of greater pre
caution and in order to put those who violate the law
more completely and manifestly in the wrong.

188 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
It appears to me that not only those magis-
The same . ^
to the trates who take the chair, make violent speeches,
same. .,-,.,
Private. and othcrwiso bear prominent parts at illeeal
Whitehall, . f , . ., % *=
July 12, meetings, or at meetings which become illegal
in the course of them, but also those who are
guilty of the base, interested, pusillanimous, and un
worthy conduct of yielding to the dictation of numbers
and violence, of promising neither to pay nor receive
tithe any more, ought to be removed from the magis
tracy, as being utterly unfit either to sustain the
character or discharge the duties of that situation. Por
this purpose I wish you would direct either me or the
Lord ChanceUor of Ireland to be informed of the names
of any Justices of the Peace who may so demean them
selves. I observe in the Morning Register of the 10th
inst. reports of two meetings of a very violent cha
racter, the one at Ballyriggan, and the other in the
united parishes of Foniglas and St. Margaret's. If either
W. O'Eeilly, Esq., who took the chair at the former meet--
ing, or James Savage, Esq., who presided at the latter,
or if any of the speakers at either of the meetings, and
more particularly Mr. Bernard Shaw, who is described
as a Protestant and the largest landowner in the parish,
be in the Commission of the Peace, there appears to me
to be little doubt of the manner in which they ought to
be dealt with.
During the winter months the Cabinet, despite the reluct
ance of Lord Durham and Lord Althorp, determined to introduce
a stringent measure of coercion.
Lord Mel- I DARE Say Lord Grey has already written to
Mi"™^ '° you to express his anxiety upon the state of
Private.' Ireland. Indeed, the whole of the Cabinet
nicemw' seem impressed with the necessity of some
20,1832. speedy and effectual measures. You have

IRISH AFFAIRS 189
yourself already stated more than once that such would
be required. Prom the reports which Gosset transmits
it appears that the state of the country is becoming
worse every day ; outrages more frequent, violence more
declared, magistrates and aU who are opposed to rapine
and confusion more and more intimidated. The attacks
upon houses seem to be mostly for the end of obtaining
arms, always, in the opinion of those who know Ireland,
the worst symptom that can exhibit itself. Lord
Anglesey, I see by the papers — for I have received no
official information — has proclaimed the county of Kil
kenny and part of the county of Cork under the Peace
Preservation Act, but it cannot be hoped that this
measure will be effectual in the present state of those
counties. What is to be done? You propose the
Insurrection Act to be carried into effect by a jury.
WiU the magistrates act under it, either with or without
a jury? Will juries in the present state of the country
convict under a law which bears so odious a name and
character ? AU these doubts and apprehensions make
one turn to the more effectual and decisive measure of
martial law, and it really appears to me that the state
of some of the counties is such as would justify the
proclamation of it in sense and reason, if not in law.
But, supposing it proclaimed, have we force enough to
carry it into effect ? Pray let me know whether you
are returning to Ireland, and, if you are, let me have, as
soon as possible, your opinion upon these subjects.
Lord The letters which your ExceUency has for some
t'^Sar- time past addressed to Eari Grey, as well as
quessof .-. ^pT,orts from the magistrates and inspectors
Anglesey. ^'^^ j-v-jj^ u _
South ^£ police which have been transmitted to my
December re fj^o^^ that of your ExccUency's Chief
. 22, 1832. Ullli-c

190 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Secretary, have given such representations of the dis
turbed and insurrectionary state of many counties
of the province of Leinster, as well as of the county of
Cork, as must necessarily occasion the deepest anxiety
and excite the most lively apprehension upon the part
of his Majesty's Government. The dispersion of the
Ministers, occasioned by the General Election, has un
avoidably prevented us from holding a Cabinet Council
upon this subject ; but the Lord ChanceUor, Lord Grey,
and myself had a meeting upon it yesterday, at which,
after full consideration and consultation, it was deter
mined that I should immediately write to your Ex
cellency, to assure you that we entirely participate in
the apprehensions which your ExceUency entertains of
serious ultimate mischief, and in the conviction that
speedy and effectual measures are required for the pre
servation of the public tranquillity and the maintenance
of the authority of the law in Ireland.
I am directed further to acquaint your ExceUency
that we shall be most happy to receive such suggestions
as your ExceUency's experience of that country and
better consideration of its state and circumstances may
enable you to offer, and we do not doubt that the rest
of his Majesty's servants will be ready to concur with
us in proposing to Parliament, at its meeting, the adop
tion of such measures as may seem best calculated to
arrest the dangers with which that portion of his
Majesty's dominions is at present threatened.
It occurred to us that it would be advisable that
y^our Excellency should take the opinion of the law
officers upon the 21-2 Geo. III. c. 11, sec. 16, as to
whether the present state of things existing in Ireland,
or in any part of it, is such as would authorise and
justify your Excellency in suspending the operation of

IRISH AFFAIRS 191
that Act by proclamation, according to the provisions
of the last section of it.
The evident terror and panic which prevail amongst
the magistrates, gentry, and farmers, particularly of the
county of Kilkenny, lead us to doubt whether tlie pro
visions of the Insurrection Act, or of any law of that
character, supposing it were thought wise to enact it,
could be carried into effect — at least, in the manner in
which they were heretofore accustomed to be executed.
These considerations naturally induced us to advert
to the more effectual measure of the proclamation of
martial law. I have before transmitted to y^our Excel
lency^ a copy of a letter from Sir Eobert Peel to Lord
Prancis Leveson Gower, which treats of the legal
character of such a proceeding, "and of the circum
stances which might be considered to authorise it. In
addition to this document I beg leave to call your
Excellency's attention to Mr. Pelham's letter to General
Lake, dated March 3, 1797, and to Mr. Pelham's letter
to Lord Carhampton, dated May 18 in the same year.
In a matter of such moment and importance your Ex
cellency will, no doubt, avail yourself of the experience
and talents of the Lord Cliancellor of Ireland, and it
will be for your Excellency to consider whether the
frequency of outrage, the insecurity of life, the defiance
of all authority, and the conspiracy, or, rather, the open
combinations against the law, which at present prevail
in Ireland, are sufficient to justify the adoption of
measures similar to those which were taken by the Irish
government at the period to which I have referred your
Excellency.The King The King caimot delay expressing to Viscount
Melbourne. Mclboume the extreme indignation with which

102 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Brighton, lie has this day noticed in the paper (which he
1838. ' encloses) the correspondence which has passed
between Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Dwyer respecting the
\establishment of a ' National Council ' in Dublin, and
Jtlie appellation of ' Irish Volunteers ' to be given to the
irish Political Union. His Majesty is aware that the
consideration of his Government is about to be given
to the introduction of strong repressive measures apph-
cable to the general state of Ireland, but he is conscious
that these individual acts of the Irish Political Union
and of Mr. O'Connell call for the immediate interposition
of his Government, as they appear to his Majesty to be,
if not overt acts of rebellion, yet the avowal of a deter
mination to proceed to that length, and to use every
endeavour to excite- and to embody a feeling and a
spirit of opposition to the Government. Indeed, if any
thing has been wanting to satisfy his Majesty of the
dangerous and rebellious tendency of political unions
in the United Kingdom, the proceeding to which he now
calls the attention of Viscount Melbourne would com
plete the catalogue.
In March a general insurrection throughout the South was
anticipated, but Mr. Stanley pointed out that the evidence was
of a somewhat doubtful character ; and so it proved.
Lord Mel- I HAVE tliis moriiing received yours of the 26th
^rMar*-" i^^^t. with the enclosures. I immediately sub-
TTLtl niitted them to Lord Grey and Stanley, and I
Whitehall, j^^gi- pf course send them to the King. I will
March 26, "
1822- take care that the original letters are returned.
We agree entirely with you in the view you have taken
of the subject. The concentrating the police and the
military would be to give up the country from which
thev would be withdrawn to the Whitefeet ; but, of

IRISH AFFAIRS 103
course, it must be done if a formidable insurrection
should be threatened. Any advice or instructions to
you upon such a subject would be absurd, nor indeed
could they be given to any one from such a distance,
as everything must depend upon local information
and immediate circumstances. I have seen Fitzroy
Somerset, who says that in case of emergency a regi
ment might be sent speedily from .Devonport, and as
both the North of England and Scotland are now
quite tranquil troops might be safely spared from them
both. I THINK you should send the papers to the King.
Mr. Stan- •' ^ '- &
ley to Lord The difference between Macdonnell and Douglas
Melbom-ue. . . °
Carlton IS casily accouiitcd for. Macdomiell's informa-
Gardens,
March 26, tiou referred only to the South and chiefly to
1883. . "^ ¦'
the CO. Tipperary^ ; but the discrepancy between
Miller (who is Inspector-General for the whole Southern
division) and Douglas is not so intelligible. Douglas is
very active and useful and very jealous of Miller, and
would not dislike the eclat of a grand discovery. I
should be curious to hear the result of his informer's
visit,^ if it takes place, to the houses where he says he
can prove the organisation. In the meantime I am in
clined to think that Miller's is the more probable view
of the matter : that there is a general organisation for
purposes of violence and intimidation connected with
local grievances, and that the priests — who are connected
with O'ConneU from religious and political motives, and
' Lord Melhourne's previous experience caused him to view with
extreme suspicion the evidence of informers. A mysterious person
styled Z  appears frequently in the correspondence with the Castle,
in whose revelations Mr. Stanley was inclined to place confidence. Lord
Melbourne, however, generally made light of them, as coming from a
polluted source. 0

104 LORD MELBOURNE'S P.VPERS
with the people, whom they are obliged to join and
lead, from pecuniary considerations — form the link be
tween what he terms the ' political and prtedial agita
tions,' and that they can at any time, and are not
indisposed to, excite their parishioners to a manifesta
tion of their physical force ; but I do not believe that
they are at all prepared to undertake anything like a
systematic insurrection, or that they have either leaders
or military discipline to render them the least formid
able. I think, however, that Sir Hussey Vivian has on
all occasions underrated the amount of arms in the
possession of the peasantry.
Meanwhile the fiery eloquence of Mr. Stanley had been
carrying the Coercion Bill through the House of Commons.
Lord Mel- ^^ ^'^^^ night agreed to the amendments made
^r Mtr-° ^y ^^^ House of Commons in the Bill for the
IT'derey supprcsslou of disturbances in Ireland ; so it
^'^^^j"^*^'^' may be considered as passed. I have directed
1833. as many copies as can be obtained to be sent
to you by to-night's post. I am afraid that some of the
alterations which have been made wiU impair its effi
ciency and the facility of its working ; but of that you
will be better able to form a judgment in Ireland when
you see the precise provisions of it. At any rate, the two
great points are obtained — the putting down illegal
seditious bodies, and the making it actually unlawful to
be out by night in a proclaimed district. I have not
seen Lord Hill to-day, but I do not doubt that he has
taken measures such as will enable him to send you
officers with all convenient speed. I have not the Bill
before me, and therefore may be mistaken, but I fear
that the necessity of being provided with lists of the
inmates of houses will occasion delay in carrying the

IRISH AFFAIRS 19.5
measure into execution, and promptitude is the soul of
a measure of this character.
The passing of the Coercion Bill was followed by two changes
in the Irish Administration — Lord Anglesey retiring in favour
of Lord Wellesley, after that Lord Melbourne had declined
the Lord Lieutenancy, and Mr. Stanley, who went to the Colo
nial Office, being replaced by Mr. Littleton. The state of affairs
in Ireland seemed to have improved.
Lord Lans- ^^ ^^ impossible to traverse Ireland without ob-
w Mel- serving strong symptoms of improvement, both
oXn i"- pubhc communications and the lodging and
tembei^2T ^^'^^ clothing of the people. Many under-
i8^*- takings abandoned last year have been taken
up again since the passing of the Coercion Bill, and if
even the comparative state of quiet it now enjoys (it is
far from perfect, for, as you mention, there are occasional
burnings and outrages on property^) can be maintained
for three years the stride it will make will be immense.
Those who know O'Connell think he meditates some
new tack before winter. He is (for him) unusuaUy re
served, and there are growing syTiiptoms of a flirtation
between him and some of the Conservative leaders, each
party trusting probably to outwit the other in the end
if they can answer the common purpose of alarming the
Government for the moment. Eepeal is, however, never
mentioned but at political meetings, to answer some
occasional purpose. Doyde's * health is supposed to be
such as to prevent his again taking any active part ;
which is fortunate when a Catholic provision comes to
be thought of, as I trust it wiU soon. It would not be
difficult, I think, to procure one for the training of
schoolmasters, which might answer very important
pohtical ends, as weU as those of education.
' Dr. Doyle was Bishop of Kildare and Loughlin. o 2

106 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
The difficulties of collecting tithe in the face of inveterate
resistance proved, however, very great, and in 1833 the arrears
amounted to 1,200,000Z.
Lord Mel- I YESTERDAY evening submitted to the Cabinet,
MTLUtie- according to your desire, the memorandum
™te &iuth "^hich you had transmitted to me relating to
Au^^st 29 ^-^^ employment of the military force and the
1833. police in cases of resistance to the collection of
tithe. The Cabinet entirely agree with you that this is
a very important question ; it is also a question of some
difficulty, and for the determination of which it is im
possible to lay down definite rules or give precise
instructions beforehand, as the course which it may be
prudent to pursue must depend very much upon the
general aspect of affairs, and the particular circum
stances- of each case which may be brought under the
consideration of the Irish government.
It is certainly the anxious hope of his Majesty's
Ministers that all necessity for collecting the arrears of
tithe now due or becoming due, and aU the hazards
attending upon such collection, may be avoided by the
acceptance on the part of the clergy of the terms offered
to them by the Act which has just been passed for their
relief; but if this unfortunately should not be the case,
it appears to me impossible that the Government can,
consistently with its duty as a government, refuse its
assistance and protection to those of them who shall be
obstructed or endangered in the prosecution of their
legal claims. . . .
Such having been the state of this matter previous
to the y^ear 1830 and siiice,^ it remains to consider the
' That bodies of soldiers and constables actually escorted and accom-
janiel the process-servers.

IRISH AFFAIRS 107
situation in which we are placed at the present moment,
and it is impossible not to admit that situation to be
much changed by the Act which has recently received
the sanction of the legislature. By that Act the Par
hament and the Government admit that they wish to
avoid the necessity of levying the arrears of tithe for
the last two years and for the present ; they offer to the
tithe-owner an alternative. He may decline it ; he
may refuse to make the sacrifice required; he may
stand upon his legal right — and his legal right being
unquestionable, it is impossible that the Government
should say that they will stand by and see it violated
without interfering either to assist or protect him ; at
the same time, he cannot in justice expect that aid
should be afforded with the same ease and readi
ness as it has been of late, when it has been granted,
in fact, upon general political principles and for
the purpose of putting down a movement so general
and so combined as to amount almost to insurrec
tion. Upon the whole, the general result and the final
opinion of the Cabinet is — 1st, that you cannot lay
down that you wiU leave every tithe-owner who may
not take the benefit of the Act of Parliament, in case
his claims should be resisted, to his mere legal remedy
and to the means of securing it which he may be able
to command.; 2nd, that in deciding upon granting as
sistance, you should resort to the principles upon which
the governments of Ireland acted previous to the year
1830 — that the circumstances of each case in which aid
is asked should be carefuUy considered, that when it
appears certain that the process cannot be served with
out danger of resistance, every advice and even remon
strance vidth the tithe-owner should be employed to

108 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
induce him to adopt the more moderate course. If such
remonstrance should prove unavailing, he should be told
that he proceeds upon his own responsibility, and if he
still persists, precautions should be taken for restoring
the public peace in case it should be interrupted ; but
the process-server or other officer should not be actuaUy
escorted either by the troops or the police.
I WROTE the above yesterday evening. This
The same . , , , , n -•
to the mornings post has brought me yours of the
October 13, 15 th. I am very glad to learn your opinion
upon the state of the North, the Orange lodges,
&c. You know enough of my opinion to know that
I slhould always consider it a great advantage to be
relieved from the necessity of taking strong measures in
that quarter. We must act towards the Protestants
with firmness and justice, but at the same time with
caution and moderation, and with tlie utmost tenderness
and consideration, not only^ for their feelings but even
for their prejudices. This instance of these reports
from the North appears to me to afford a proof of the
impossibility^ of conducting the government of Ireland
from hence, as it has of late years been the fashion to
suggest. The person who had to direct measures would
either err from imperfect and incorrect information or,
if he waited to obtain fuUer intelligence, would be too
late for the occasion.
A new Tithe Bill was in preparation, but Lord Melbourne
does not seem to have anticipated much benefit from it. ' You
know,' he wrote to Mr. Littleton on September 24, ' my general
opinion that the spirit of combination, violence, and encroach
ment will neither be satisfied nor mitigated by the concessions
which have been made to it, nor by any which may be made.'
Lord Lansdowne's sentiments were of much the same nature.

IRISH AFFAIRS 199
Lord Lans- ¦*" ^^^^^ ^^^^ attentively the prhited communica-
w Mel- ^^^"^ ^^^ ^^^^^ forwarded to me, and I presume
bourne to the rcst of the Cabinet, containing some
Bowood, n T •
December additional suggcstious from Lord Wellesley
18, 1833. . '^° ¦'
and Littleton on the subject of the extinction
of tithes in Ireland.
I was not at all surprised to find that some altera
tion of the former plan was judged necessary to secure
their income to the clergy, as it seemed to me impos
sible on the first blush of it that a capital founded on
sixteen years' purchase could be so vested or arranged
as to yield a revenue approaching even within 13 per
cent, to their actual receipts.
It appears to me, however, that the change now
proposed, and which it is expected will meet this diffi
culty, involves rather a serious objection in principle.
It is intended to make the amount of purchase or com
mutation depend upon the supposed value of the tithes
in different quarters ; but how is this difference of
value to be estimated ? By the fact of the tithe having
been in parts of the country ' paid freely,' and in others
been the subject of a ' violent and inveterate resistance ' ?
Will not this be proclaiming in Ireland, with respect to
other alleged burdens and grievances, that the measure
of resistance will be taken as a measure of relief ? — an
objection that I remember takhig last year to one of the
plans for the payment of arrears, and which was then
generally felt by the Cabinet. I confess I do not see
how the inequahty can be justified short of going the
full length of recognising one part of Ireland as
Cathohc and the other as Protestant; but I do not
know that we or the country are prepared for this, and
the admission would imply a stiU greater diminution
in the income of the Church of England, together with

200 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
-a corresponding provision for the Eoman Catholic
clergy. I think it right to state this objection, as it occurs to
me strongly ; but if, contrary to any expectation, this last
suggestion is found to smoothe difficulties, I certainly
shall be glad to see the question settled any way, and as
an individual proprietor in that part of the country
where redemption can be effected on the easiest terms,
can have no reason to be dissatisfied with it.
During the winter the state of Ireland, though less deplor
able than in former years, was still far from satisfactory. Lord
Melbourne wrote to Mr. Littleton on December 27 : —
The report of the province of Leinster, compared with
that for the same period of the last year, is undoubtedly
satisfactory, and upon the face of it it appears to me to
be impossible to deny the beneficial effect of the Coercion
Act, not only upon the county of Kilkenny, in which it
has been called into operation, but also upon the neigh
bouring counties of Carlow and Tipperary ; at the same
time, however, that this representation, comparatively
considered, may be held to be encouraging, taken by
itself it certainly presents anything but a cheering
prospect. Two hundred and ninety-two offences com
mitted in the space of one month, all of them of a
serious complexion and many of them of an insurrec
tionary character, prove that we are yet very far from
having restored order and security in that part of the
country. I entirely agree with the Inspector-General
of that province that more precaution should be used
by the magistrates in granting licences for the holding
of arms ; but I was extremely surprised to read in his
observations that he himself does not attach much im
portance to the possession of firearms by the peasantry.

IRISH AFFAIRS -201
It has always appeared to me that this was one of the
worst pecuharities of Ireland, the very point in which
it differs from England the most to its own disadvantage.
Whether the desire to obtain arms be a cause or an
effect I stop not to enquire, but sure I am that this is
the most evil symptom of the diseased state of the
country, and the circumstance which most leads to and
encourages both public tumult and private outrage, and
renders both more bloody and destructive than in other
countries. I feel convinced that no permanent good
wiU be effected until this habit is greatly checked and
diminished, and it is the duty of every public officer to
discourage and discountenance it by every means in his
power. And he wrote to Lord Wellesley on January 4 : —
I much lament that y^ou seem to entertain so un
favourable an opinion of the general state of the country.
I wish I could myself think that your forebodings in this
respect were not well founded. I am not equal to the
attempt to enter upon a subject of such magnitude at
present. The dependencies and provinces of great
monarchies have always been apt to grow too great and
too strong to be governed by the mother state, and that,
perhaps, exactly in proportion to the degree in which
their true interest has been consulted, and their pros
perity has been suffered to develop itself. This has been
the case with absolute despotisms, and I am afraid that
governments of a popular character will not be found
to be exempt from the same condition.
In this state of affairs the renewal of the Coercion Bill
was inevitable, and, as is well known, the circumstances attend
ing the renewal produced the downfall of the Grey administra
tion. As to Lord Melbourne's share in the imbroglio there is

202 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
nothing much to relate. It is unnecessary to retell, for the
hundredth and first time, the events of the tempestuous session
of 1834, and it is sufficient to say that, when the Bill came
under the consideration of the Cabinet, he and Lord Grey were
strongly in favour of its reintroduction in its integrity. He was,
therefore, extremely angry with Lord Wellesley 's famous letter
of June 19, in which the Lord Lieutenant announced that
he did not wish the clauses to be renewed enabling him to
suppress public meetings ; and he was additionally angry be
cause the letter was written to the Prime Minister and not, in
the ordinary course, to himself.' He swallowed his objections,
however, and it was Lord Grey's determination to carry the
whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill, combined with Mr. Little
ton's indiscreet communication with O'Connell, which caused
the resignation of Lord Althorp, and the consequent break-up
of the Ministry. Lord Melbourne, to all outward appearance,
accepted the catastrophe with great philosophy, and went with
a party of ladies down the river. But he never forgave Lord
Wellesley, or Lord Brougham the chief adviser of Lord Welles
ley, their share in the transactions, and it is to the events of
this period that must be attributed his relentless determination
to exclude those statesmen from any Ministry of which he was
the chief.
^ The best account of the transactions is to be found in Lord Hather-
ton's (Mr. Littleton's) Memoir on the subject, edited by Mr. Reeve. It is
there stated by Lord Hatherton that Lord Wellesley addressed his letter
to Lord Grey because Lord Melbourne had not answered his previous
letters. The omission is perfectly possible, as Lord Melbourne was not
the most methodical of correspondents ; but at the same time it is not
easy to reconcile the statement with a sentence in Lord Wellesley's letter
of July 3 : ' I wrote to Lord Grey expressly for the purpose of keeping
the communication out of the official channels.'

20.3

CHAPTEE VII
THE FIRST MELBOUENE ADMINISTRATION
July— NovEMBEE 1834
On the day after Lord Grey's resignation Lord Melbourne was
summoned by the King to give his advice on the state of affairs.
The selection does not seem to have taken many people by sur
prise ; indeed. Lord Durham had prophesied a year before that
Melbourne would be Grey's successor. Having ascertained that
Lord Lansdowne would not accept the Premiership, and know
ing full well that Lord Althorp was utterly unwilling to assume
the post of honour, he obeyed the royal commands with charac
teristic nonchalance. To his private secretary, Tom Young, he
said that ' he thought it a damned bore, and that he was in
many minds what he should do — be Minister or no.' But he
was persuaded by that worthy's unanswerable reply : ' Why,
damn it, such a position was never occupied by any Greek or
Eoman, and, if it only lasts two months, it is worth while to
have been Prime Minister of England.' • The King's wishes, as
is well known, were that he should attempt to form a coalition
Ministry with the Duke, Sir Eobert Peel, and Mr. Stanley.
But Lord Melbourne had far too much common sense to accede
to an arrangement so excellent in theory, so unworkable in
practice. The gist of his often- quoted reply is to be found in
the following passage : — ^
The distinguished individuals enumerated by your
Majesty, the Duke of Welhngton, Sir Eobert Peel, Mr.
Stanley, have aU and each of them recently expressed,
' Greville iii. 126. Greville gives a very unfavourable sketch of Tom
Young's character, but Hayward attributes to him considerable abilities
and great usefulness.
2 Lord Melbourne's reply was dated July 10.

204 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
not only general want of confidence in your Majesty's
government, but the strongest objections, founded upon
principle, to measures of great importance, either intro ¦
duced into Parliament or adopted by virtue of your
Majesty's prerogative : to the Bill for the better coUec-
tion of tithes in Ireland, and to the Commission for an
enquiry^ into the state of religion in that eountry. Both
these measures, particularly the last. Viscount Mel
bourne considers vital and essential in the present state
of public feeling and opinion. Would it be then fair in
Viscount Melbourne to offer to these distinguished indi
viduals the appearance of a negotiation in which Vis
count Melbourne would have everything to demand
and nothing to concede ?
Much to his disgust, the King was accordingly obliged to
fall back upon the Whigs, and Lord Melbourne, having over
come the reluctance of Lord Althorp — ' the tortoise on whom
the world reposed'' — to continue in office, was able, on the 15th,
to express his readiness, and that of his colleagues, to place
their services at the King's disposal.
Viscount Melbourne presents his humble duty
bourne to to your Majcsty, and respectfully acquaints your
South""' Majesty that, in consequence of the audience
juiy^'s, with which he was honoured by your Majesty
^*^*' on the loth inst., he yesterday evening caUed
together those of y^our Majesty's confidential servants who
have not actually resigned their offices, and submitted to
them the paper which your Majesty has been pleased to
place in Viscount Melbourne's hands, and also his recol
lection of the conversation which passed upon the occasion.
Viscount Melbourne is charged by them aU to express
their attachment and devotion to your Majesty's person
and government, and their readiness to place their ser-

the first MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 205
vices at your Majesty's disposal, subject to such expla
nations as Viscount Melbourne is authorised to offer of
certain passages in your Majesty's gracious communi
cation, and which he believes, from his recollection of
your Majesty's observations on Monday last, to be en
tirely consonant with your Majesty's feelings and inten
tions. With respect to the general observations made in
the paper referred to. Viscount Melbourne will only
state that he perceives their purport to be that your
Majesty's government is to be conducted upon the prin
ciple of firmly maintaining the civil and religious estab
lishments of the country, subject to such prudent and
well-considered but effectual reformation as may render
them more suited to their own purposes, more commen
surate with their objects, as may be dictated by sound
policy, and as are called for by a majority of the re
spectable part of the community^
To the distinct questions put by your Majesty, y^our
Majesty has a right to expect and it is Viscount Mel
bourne's duty to offer a clear and distinct reply. To
the first — viz. What are the materials, independently cf
any combination of parties, from which, in the opinion
of Viscount Melbourne, an administration can be formed ?
and which Viscount Melbourne understands as a direc
tion to him to lay before your Majesty a plan of admin
istration. Viscount Melbourne humbly proposes that
Viscount Duncannon should be caUed up to the House
of Lords, and should be entrusted with the seals of the
Home Department, and that the office of First Com
missioner of Woods and Porests should be filled by Sir
John Cam Hobhouse with a seat in the Cabinet.
With respect to the second question. Whether your
Majesty can feel secure against the introduction of any

206 LOI!D MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
of those whose principles and views your Majesty dreads
and deprecates ? Viscount Melbourne would fain hope
that his answer to the former question, in which he
proposes to your Majesty for the vacancies occasioned
by the new arrangement two individuals, one of whom
is at present and the other recently has been in your
Majesty's service, and only left it from accidental cir
cumstances,^ will be a sufficient proof that there is no
wish to do anything but that which may be agreeable
to your Majesty, nor any desire to give to the adminis
tration a sudden change and alteration of its character.
/Viscount Melbourne would, however, be greatly want-
ling in his duty to your Majesty if he did not humbly
/represent that nothing appears to him to be so impolitic
and dangerous (omitting other objections) as the
I adoption of a principle of exclusion. Such a measure,
beyond any other, defeats its own end ; it increases the
power and popularity of those who are the objects of
it, whilst it embitters their feelings and drives them into
courses more violent and reckless than they would
otherwise be inclined to adopt. Viscount Melbourne
has no intention at present of suggesting the introduc
tion into your Majesty's councils of any others than
those whom he has named to your Majesty, but he
trusts that your Majesty will allow him to reserve to
himself the power of recommending to your Majesty at
any future time any one of your. Majesty's subjects who
is qualified by law to fully serve your Majesty.
The two next questions relate to the Act for better
suppressing local disturbances in Ireland, and it is Vis
count Melbourne's duty to acquaint your Majesty that,
from all he can learn, it has become impossible since the
' Sir John Hobhouse lost his seat for Middlesex on accepting the
appointment of Chief Secretary for Ireland in succession to Mr. Stanley. ,

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTR.VTION 207
pubhcation of the import of the Lord Lieutenant's
private letter to Earl Grey to carry a renewal of this
Act with the clauses relating to meetings. Viscount
Melbourne disagrees with this opinion, he deeply laments
its prevalence, but he feels himself compeUed to yield
to necessity, and is therefore ready to assent to the BiU,
so restricted, which in that shape he apprehends there
will be little difficulty in passing.
Viscount Melbourne having offered to your Majesty's
questions such answers as he is enabled to give, would
now have nothing further to add except the repetition
of his entire devotion to your Majesty, but the last para
graph of your Majesty's paper, in which your Majestj^
states that ' You are satisfied that Viscount Melbourne
would not undertake to preside over any administration
upon the concurrence and support of which y^our
Majesty could not rely in every effort to resist further
encroachment upon the prerogative of the Crown, upon
the Church Establishments in England and in Ireland,
and upon the character, the responsibility, and the con
stitutional share in the legislature of the aristocracy of
the country,' renders it necessary that Viscount Mel-j
bourne, in order to preclude the possU)ility of mis
take, should add one or two explanatory observations.
Viscount Melbourne has already stated to your Majesty
his opinions upon the ecclesiastical establishment in
England and in Ireland — viz. that it requires, though
upon different principles, reconsideration and remodel
ling in both countries. To this opinion Viscount Mel
bourne understood himself to be fortunate enough to
obtain y^our Majesty's assent and concurrence, and your
Majesty will not, therefore, be surprised that Viscount
Melbourne should be anxious to state that neither he
nor his colleagues can by acquiescing in the above-

208 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
mentioned sentiments and expressions be considered to
preclude themselves from offering to your Majesty such
measures for the reformation of the hierarchy in England
and in Ireland as may appear to be advisable, and as
the result of the labours of the Commission lately issued
for the enquiry into the religious state of the latter
country may suggest and recommend.^
The business of the session was soon wound up, and Parlia
ment was prorogued on August 15. The Coercion Bill was
passed, minus the meetings clauses ; the House of Lords, for the
first of many times, threw out the Tithe Bill. His colleagues
departed, Lord Melbourne remained in or near town, spending
much of his time at Holland House, where Greville was enabled
to commit to memory many admirable instances of his learning
and conversational powers.^ Meantime he was in correspond
ence with Lord John Eussell.
I WROTE you the note merely as a remembrancer
bourne to of what had been settled at the Cabinet. I
Eussell think you should certainly communicate with
south^" Mr. Waymouth and the Committee in London,
1 Lord Melbourne's first Ministry was composed of —
Viscount Melbourne, First Lord of the Treasury.
Marquess of Lansdowne, Lord President.
Earl of Mulgrave, Lord Privy Seal.
Lord Brougham, Lord ChanceUor.
Viscount Althorp, Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Viscount Palmerston, Foreign Secretary.
Mr. Spring Rice, Colonial Secretary.
Mr. C. Grant, President of the Board of Control.
Lord Auckland, First Lord of the Admiralty.
Lord John Russell, Paymaster of the Forces.
Lord HoUand, ChanceUor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
Mr. Poulott Thomson President of the Board of Trade.
Mr. E. EUice, Secretary for War.
Mr. Aberoromby, Master of the Mint.
Sir J. C. Hobhouse, Woods and Forests.
Lord WeUesley and Mr. Littleton continued to be Lord Lieutenant and
Chief Secretary for Ireland.
- Greville, iii. 126 et seq.

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 209
August 16, ^^* ^^^^ *^^^* y°"- should try to learn pretty
18 -a ' generaUy from the country what are the actual
views of the Dissenters and what regulations they would
acquiesce in. These gentlemen in London I suspect to
be only the nominal leaders, and to possess about as
much weight with the Dissenters in general as the Pope-
does with O'ConneU and the Eoman Catholics in Ireland.
You must, of course, be very careful in what you say
yourself, but I think you will learn their views without
committing the Government to any measure.
The more I think of the plan of making the legal
contract of marriage merely civic, and leaving it to the
discretion of the parties whether they shall superadd
any religious ceremony, the more I dread its repugnance
to the habits and feelings of this country. Wliat would
the Methodists and the Wesleyans particularly say to
such a proposition ? This is of great importance, and
might, I should think, be ascertained. Adieu.
O'Connell had returned to Ireland in a state of great in
dignation against the Whigs.
I RECIEVED your letter here yesterday. I agree
Lord Mel- ^ . ^ ., ^,1^ m *
bourne to with you entirely about O ConneU. Any step
Lord John "i , . . c i •
EusseU. towards him is a measure oi such importance
Pans- ' and danger that no one ought to take it, or
August 23, anything like it, without the fullest considera-
tion, and without the agreement of all his col
leagues. But I very much doubt the utility of laying
this down, which in itself is obvious, as a solemn and
regular resolution. The proposition will be acceded to
nem. con. as soon as it is stated, but when that is done
shall you be the least nearer your object ? Those who
are against this scheme, and who are for open and
straightforward dealins?, wiU abstain from anything of
P

210 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the kind without any pledge. Those on the contrary
who have this notion in their heads, and who are inclined
to schemes, will not be in the least restrained from
embarking in them by any undertaking. You wiU only
raise an awkward discussion without any possible profit.
With respect to O'Connell, I am myself strongly of
opinion that nothing can be done with him. You cannot
buy a man without paying something like his price.
You cannot pay O'Connell's price. What I mean by
his price is something adequate to his station and in
fluence in Parliament and in the country. Now, his
abilities and powers are such as to give him naturally a
claim to the highest offices in the State and a large share
in the government of the country. You cannot do this —
at least I am not prepared to do so — and you caimot
obtain him for less. It is idle to expect that such a man
as he is, and after the career he has run, will sink quietly
down into a subordinate equity or common law judge.
¦ He would like to have the offer for the sake of refusing
it. His friends and followers wiU try to delude you into
making the offer by all sorts of representations of its
being needed, of his being tired, of his being desirous of
repose, and all this sort of stuff. Besides, if you were to
gain him, to make him Attorney-General for instance,
you would only gain a master. Taking office would not
shake his influence with the people of Ireland one jot.
The people of Ireland are not such damned fools as the
people of England. Wlien they place confidence they
do not withdraw it the next instant. They do not suffer
their opinions to be changed in a day by the leading
article of a newspaper. When they trust a man, when
they are really persuaded that he has their interest at
heart, they do not throw him off because he does
sometliing which they cannot immediately understand

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 211
or explain. On the contrary, they think that he prob
ably knows what he is about, that what he does is done
to serve them, and they cling to him the closer on account
of any apparent inconsistency. The Ministry that lets
him get into the saddle may be very sure that he will
soon have a bit in their mouth and guide them as he
lists. With respect to your other schemes, which are rather
large and new, do you not think that we have enough
to do at present without them ? I cannot for the life of
me see how they wiU get rid of any difficulties, and they
will be in themselves very great ones. I think to meddle
with the army now would be absolute madness, and
depend upon it there are very great objections to the
alteration of the government of Ireland. These arrange
ments might possibly be bettered ; but it seems to me,
in the present position of affairs in L-eland, in this
country, and with aU the questions affecting the discipline
of the army, it would be the height of imprudence to
asjitate them. Adieu.
O'Connell's ^ letter had, of course, enprao-ed my
to the attention, and 1 had already "WTitten both to tlie
Soutii ChanceUor and Duncannon to call theirs to it
street, . . _ . ,
September in tlic most scrious manner. 1 doubt the
legahty of it, particularly of that part of it
which recommends a general passive resistance to the
payment of tithe ; but, however that may be, I could not
take any other view of it with reference to our position
and the general state of Ireland than that which )'ou
take, and I was inclined, and am still, to come to the
same conclusion as you do.
O'ConneU's conduct looks very much as if he were
1 A letter reviewing the history of Lord Grey's administration. p 2

212 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
afraid of leaving the tithe to the legal course of collec
tion, as if he doubted whether there would be resistance,
and whether it might not be levied peaceably, and there
fore he thinks it necessary thus early to begin exhortation
and excitement in order to secure opposition on the part
of the population. I am afraid he is too certain to be
successful. It was most probable that the payment
would be withheld without any successful efforts on his
part ; with them, I think there can be no doubt of the
effect. There appear to me to be many reasons for an early
meeting. The tithe wiU become due in November, and
as we have then every reason to apprehend serious
events, it appears to me really advisable that Parhament
should be sitting in order to meet them, and that we
should avoid giving O'ConneU the start and advantage
of three months, which he invariably employs in the most
active and violent agitation.
A Tithe Bill we must bring forward. We cannot,
of course, acquiesce in the tithe being forcibly abolished
and obtained by the landlords.
The clauses of the Coercion Bill I always appre
hended would be found necessary.
The recess can hardly have brought Lord Melbourne much
repose. His volatile Chancellor was touring in Scotland,
arousing by his imprudent speeches a perfect storm of criti
cism, and winding up with a personal controversy with Lord
Durham, which began at the Grey banquet at Edinburgh
and continued in the pages of the Edinburgh Review. In Sep
tember Lord Lansdowne threatened resignation because of
sundry blunders in connection with the Irish Poor Law Com
mission.' In October came the destruction of the Houses of
Parliament by fire ; and Lord Melbourne had to point out to
the King that his generous proposal to place Buckingham
' Torrens, ii. 21-24.

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 213
Palace at the disposal of the legislature could hardly with safety
be accepted.
Lord M "Discount Melbourne presents his humble duty to
bourne to your Majcsty, and acknowledges your Majesty's
South ° gracious communication, which he has this
street, ° . . '
November momiiig reccivcd, upon the subject of the
1,1834. ^ ^ ., ^ . ¦' „
measures to be adopted m consequence of the re
cent destruction by fire of the two Houses of Parhament.
There can be no question that, as your Majesty states,
it is your Majesty's undoubted prerogative to appoint
the place of meeting of your Parliament, but tliis place
of meeting has been upon the present spot so invariably
for so many years — ever since the time of Charles II.,
who summoned one Parliament under very peculiar cir
cumstances at Oxford ^ — that, without adverting to the
possibility of the House of Commons not sanctioning
any arrangement made at present by voting the sums
necessary to defray the expense of it, it appears to
Viscount Melbourne that it would be highly unad-
visable, and in some degree ungracious, to exercise this
prerogative except after fuU consultation with the two
Houses of Parliament.
Viscount Melbourne entirely concurs with your
Majesty that, in order to avoid debate and diversity of
opinion upon the subject as much as possible, your
Majesty's Government should be prepared with a plan,
which they may decisively propose to Parliament im
mediately upon its reassembling, and Lord Melbourne
will lose no time in calling the serious attention of his
coUeao-ues to this subject as soon as they are collected
too-ether in London; but Viscount Melbourne cannot

o

1 Parliament was summoned to Oxford in 1665 on account of the
Great Plague.

214 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
conceal from your Majesty that he would be unwilling
to be the Minister who should advise your Majesty, upon
his responsibility, to remove the Houses of Parliament
from their ancient and established place of assembly at
Westminster. As one reason for this determination, Viscount Mel
bourne begs to suggest to your Majesty that, from the
knowledge vphich he possesses of the opinions which
many members of the House of Commons entertain
upon this subject, if a removal is determined upon, it is
probable that your Majesty may be exposed to pro
posals with respect to the Palace of St. James's and
Marlborough House which may be far from being
agreeable to your Majesty.
But other reasons suggest themselves to the mind
of Viscount Melbourne of a more grave and serious
nature. If the two Houses of Parliament are rebuilt, not
u-pon the same site, but in the same quarter of the
town in which they have so long stood, their present
character, form, and extent may be in a great degree
preserved. If a total removal takes place, and that to
a situation where space is unlimited, it will be very
difficult to avoid providing much larger accommodation
for spectators as well as for members ; and Viscount
Melbourne need not recall to j'our Majesty's mind the
fatal effects which large galleries fiUed with the multitude
have had upon the deliberation of- public assemblies,
and consequently upon the laws and institutions of
nations. Soon afterwards Lord Melbourne learnt that Lord Durham
was at loggerheads with Lord John Eussell, and that the latter
had obtained the King's permission to vindicate himself in
I'arliament.

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 215
Lord Mel- I UNDERSTAND that a Correspondence which has
s°rHer-° recently taken place between Lord John Eus-
ki^ Con- sell and Lord Durham relating to the previous
r>o™£g consultations upon the Act for the Eeformation
November ^^ ^^^^ Eeprescntation has been submitted by
*' ¦^'^^^' Lord John Eussell to his Majesty, accompanied
by a request that he (Lord John) may be permitted to
make in his place in the House of Commons any dis
closure upon this subject which may appear to him to
be necessary for the vindication of his character, and
that to this request his Majesty has been graciously
pleased to accede.
I cannot do otherwise than seize the opportunity of
the first moment of this matter coming to my knowledge
to represent through you to his Majesty how extremely
inconvenient this course is likely to prove, how much
crimination, recrimination, and general altercation it is
likely to produce, and how entirely subversive it is of
all the principles upon which the Government of this
country has hitherto been conducted. I understand
that these letters contain statements of the opinions
held and maintained in the Cabinet upon material parts
of the measure by different members of the Govern
ment. What Minister will ever hereafter give his
opinion freely and unreservedly upon the matters before
him if he feels that he is liable, at any distance of time,
to have those opinions brought to light, and to be him
self arraigned at the bar of the public for having held
them ; and how can the public affairs be satisfactorily
conducted unless the sentiments of Ministers be declared
in their fuUest extent, and without the least bias either
of apprehension or of precaution? The pubhcity of
debates in Parliament established of late y^ears is, I
believe on the whole advantageous. At the same time

210 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
it must be admitted that there are attendant incon
veniences, and particularly that it prevents that fear
lessness and sincerity of discussion which would other
wise take place. If the arguments in the Cabinet are
no longer to be protected by an impenetrable veil of
secrecy, there wiU be no place left in the public councils
for the free investigation of truth and the unshackled
exercise of the understanding.
This matter seriously concerns Lord Grey as weU as
myself. If his Majesty has given permission to Lord
John EusseU, it cannot, perhaps, be retracted. But it
might be proper to express a strong sense of the incon
venience of the proposed course, and an anxious hope
that the present licence wiU not be acted upon unless
it should appear to be absolutely necessary, which it is
impossible that it can be, for the vindication of honour
and character.
Sir Her- I HAVE fclt it to bc uiy duty not to lose a
to lotY'"' moment in bringing before the King your
PriTO°e™*' lordship's letter of yesterday, marked ' confi-
Novemb"er dcutial,' and to receive his commands to convey
5, 1834. ^.Q jQ^ j^jg sentiments and fuU explanations with
regard to the subject to which it relates.
His Majesty orders me to assure you that he enters
most sincerely and cordially into aU you say upon it
and the feeling you express, and that no man can be
more sensible than he is of the mischief that is done to
any Government, to its administration of the affairs of
the country, and to the general interests of the nation,
by the disclosures of opinions and of discussions which
may have taken place in the private sittings of the
members of the Government, especially when such dis
closures are jiroduced by a process of crimination and

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 217
recrimination so Uttle suited to the circumstances in
which the individuals concerned have been placed or
are placed, and so wholly inconsistent with the obliga
tions contracted by them when they become the mem
bers of a Government. His Majesty has therefore not
ceased to deprecate the practice, which has more espe-
ciaUy obtained lately, of giving great dinners, which
are a sort of political assembly at which topics are
introduced which necessarily lead to crimination and
recrimination when parties are split as at present, and
he also objects to ' itinerant ' speechifying, particularly
by individuals holding high offices.
The King considers it almost useless to remark that
the circumstance which is more immediately the sub
ject of your letter has arisen out of these objectionable
practices, but he leaves it for those concerned to trace
the evil to its origin, whether to disclosures in Parlia
ment, at ' Gateshead,' at dinners, or in the Edinburgh
Review.^ The point on which his Majesty feels deeply
anxious is that your lordship should feel persuaded
that his Majesty had never contemplated for a moment
holding correspondence with any of your colleagues, or
with any^one on questions affecting the Government, of
the nature and extent of which the individual at the
head of the Government should be ignorant ; that he
has never wished to conceal anything from him, never
has done so, and never will.
Applications similar to that made recently by Lord
John EusseU were not unusual during the administra
tion of Lord Grey ; several instances might be cited,
and one of them in which Lord John EusseU was the
^ Gateshead, near Durham, was one of the places at which Lord
Durham spoke. Lord Brougham had retorted on Lord Durham in the
Edinburgh Beview for October 1834.

218 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
member of the Cabinet concerned, though it was not
acted upon. But those aj)plications were invariably
made with the knowledge and consent of Lord Grey, and
when his Majesty received Lord John EusseU's, dated
at Howick on the 2nd ult., he took it for granted that
his lordship had apprised you of this step, more es
pecially as Lord Grey was privy to it ; nor can his
Majesty hesitate to observe that few circumstances have
surprised him so much as the discovery, which appears
to result from your lordship's letter, that you not only
had not been apprised of the application in question,
but that, up to the very day you wrote to me, you had
not seen the correspondence.
I now beg to enclose it as far as I am concerned ;
and his Majesty has ordered me to add a letter from
Lord Grey, enclosing the copy of one addressed by him
to Lord Durham which the latter read at the assembly
at Glasgow. His Majesty flatters himself that you wiU observe
in my communication made by his order the strongest
desire to discourage these improper disclosures, and to
inculcate the necessity of caution and discretion in the
use of the permission given to Lord John EusseU ; and
his Majesty now orders me to say that you have his
fall authority in his name to recall that permission, since
his Majesty has learnt that the application was not
made with your knowledge and concurrence.

Lord Mel
bourne to
Sir Her-

I BEG you will offer to his Majesty my humble
and grateful thanks for the very satisfactory
h)?' cra- letter which his Majesty has commanded you to
DowniS^' write to me in reply to mine of the 4th inst. I
November ^^S 7*^^ """iH ^ssuro his Majcsty that I always
6, 1831. fgit confident that his Majesty supposed that the

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 219
correspondence between Lord John EusseU and Lord
Durham had already been submitted to me, as weU as the
request preferred by the former to his Majesty. I am
anxious also to add that I feel certain that in omitting
to communicate with me upon a subject of such import
ance Lord John EusseU acted through indiscretion and
misconception, as he is utterly incapable of anything cf
an underhand or clandestine character. I observe in
the correspondence that it is not his intention to make
any public disclosure except in his place in Parliament.
It appears to me, therefore, that it wiU be more prudent
not to agitate the subject at present, but to take the
chance that the lapse of a little time may possibly make
him see the matter in a clearer light and alter the in
tention which he now professes.
I return you the correspondence, amongst which I
do not perceive any copy of Lord John EusseU's letter
to Lord Durham, adverted to in his letter of Septem
ber 21 addressed to you. I also beg leave to acknow
ledge with gratitude his Majesty's autograph letter on
the subject of Buckingham Palace and the proposed
site of the two Houses of Parliament, to which I would
take an early opportunity of replying after consideration
of the subject and further consultation with Lord Dun
cannon and Sir John Hobhouse.
Under the circumstances it was hardly to be expected that,
when the death of Lord Spencer necessitated the removal of
Lord Althorp to the Upper House and the choice of a new leader
for the House of Commons, Lord Melbourne should write to the
Kingr in tones of decided cheerfulness : —
Downin ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
November ^^ your Majcsty, and is anxious in the present
12, 1831. emergency to wait upon y^our Majesty, and to
receive your Majesty's commands.

220 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Your Majesty will recollect that the Government in
its present form was mainly founded upon the personal
weight and influence possessed by Earl Spencer in the
House of Commons, and upon the arrangement which
placed in his hands the conduct of the business of
Government in that assembly. That foundation is now
withdrawn by the elevation of that nobleman to the
House of Peers ; and in the new and altered circum
stances it is for your Majesty to consider whether it is
your pleasure to authorise Viscount Melbourne to make
such fresh arrangements as may enable your Majesty's
present servants to continue to conduct the affairs of
the country, or whether your Majesty deems it advisable
to adopt any other course.
Viscount Melbourne accepted the high and respon
sible office which he at present holds because he
thought that at that moment it was in his power to
render service to your Majesty and the country. Vis
count Melbourne will never abandon your Majesty;
his humble services will always be at your Majesty's
disposal whilst they can be given honourably and con
scientiously, and whilst your Majesty is pleased to
deem them worthy of your acceptance. But Viscount
Melbourne earnestly entreats that no personal con
sideration for him may prevent your Majesty from
taking any measures or seeking any other advice
which your Majesty may think more hkely to conduce
to your Majesty's service and the advantage of the
country. Whatever may be your Majesty's views. Viscount
Melbourne humbly conceives that they will be forwarded
and assisted by a full and unreserved personal com
munication upon the present state of pubhc affairs,
and for that purpose Viscount Melbourne will have the

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 221
honour of waiting upon your Majesty at Brighton to
morrow.^ The King ^HE King lias this moment received Viscount
Melbourne. Mclboume's Icttcr, and has determined to send
Nov^JSTe'r ^^^ mcsscnger back with an immediate reply, not
12, 1834. QT^ij fQj. ^ijQ purpose of confirming his intention
of coming here to-morrow, but also because he is unwill
ing to delay assuring Viscount Melbourne how highly
he estimates the honourable feeling and the principle of
devotion to the service of his sovereign and the country
which influence his conduct at this critical juncture, as
they have indeed directed it on every occasion, and-
more particularly when he accepted the high office
which he now holds, and undertook the discharge of
arduous and responsible duties which his Majesty felt
he could not entrust to any^one better deserving of his
confidence. That confidence is not only undiminished, but has
been increased by his Majesty's experience of Viscount
Melbourne's character and abilities, and he would do
great injustice to his sense of them if he were not to
declare that every motive arising from it, and from
personal regard and gratitude, would cause his Majesty
sincerely to regret the loss of Viscount Melbourne's
valuable services. His Majesty, however, is quite sen
sible of all the difficulties which have arisen from Earl
Spencer's removal to the Plouse of Lords, and he is not
blind to those which may be anticipated in any attempt
to make such fresh arrangements as shall enable his

tD^

' A portion of this letter was published by Sir T. Martin in his Life
of Lord Lyndhurst. The whole correspondence seems certainly to
show that much of the criticism that has been passed on William IV. for
his dismissal of the Ministry is based on a misconception of the circum
stances of the case.

222 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Majesty's present servants to continue to conduct the
affairs of the country. Pie is quite aware that the
Government, in its present form, was mainly founded
upon the personal weight and influence possessed by
Earl Spencer in the House of Commons ; he cannot help
feeling, also, that the Government exists by the support
of that branch only of the legislature, and, therefore,
that the loss of Viscount Althorp's services in that
House must be viewed with reference also to that con
tingency. This and other circumstances producing embarrass
ment, to which the King will not further aUude at
present, render the whole question one of the most
serious import, and one in which friendly and disinte
rested advice becomes most important ; and his Majesty
will therefore most readily avail himself of Viscount
Melbourne's proposal that he should have with him a
full and unreserved communication upon the present
state of public affairs, and will receive him at any time
at which he may present himself here to-morrow.
The substance of the audience was given for the first time iu
the Memoirs of Baron Stockmar, from a memorandum drawn up
by the King.' William IV. confined himself to expressing
alarm at the enquiry into the Irish Church ; and as to the new
leader of the House of Commons, he thought that Lord John
Eussell would ' make a wretched figure,' and that Spring Eice
or Aberoromby were worse than Eussell. Early next morning
Lord Melbourne received the following letter : —
> The King, after the very confidential conversa-
The King ... J J
to Lord tion with Viscount Melbourne on the state of
Melbourne. . pi i ^
Pavilion, tho couutry^ IU consequciice of the removal ot
Novembe'r Viscouut Althorp to the House of Peers, and his
therefore becoming Earl Spencer, thinks it right'
' Stockmar, vol. i. p. 329.

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION S23
to inform Lord Melbourne that he conceives that the
general weight and consideration of the present Govern
ment is so much diminished in the House of Commons,
and in the country at large, as to render it impossible
that they should continue to conduct the public affairs
ill the Commons, and particularly when it is considered
that the King's confidential servants cannot derive any
support from the House of Lords which can balance
the want of success in the Commons:
His Majesty, therefore, under this view, and the
apprehension of contingencies which the King has ex
pressed to Lord Melbourne verbally, does not think it
would be acting fairly or honourably by his lordship
to caU upon the Viscount for the continuance of his
service in a position of which the tenure appears to the
King to be so precarious.
His Majesty need, however, hardly repeat that
assurance so often conveyed to Lord Melbourne of the
high sense the King entertains of his lordship's valuable
character and services.
A conversation followed, at which Lord Melbourne good-
naturedly consented to be the bearer of a summons to the Duke
of Wellington. I HAVE the honour to send your lordship a
Taylor to letter from the King, and also the Chancellor's
bourne.'' letter of the 8th inst. and the copy of my
November auswcr, whicli I mentioned to you, and which
I shall be obliged to you to return with those
of previous date.
Your lordship wiU forgive my assuring you that I
am convinced, from what the King said to me after you
were gone, that he had been unable to express how
strono-ly he feels the whole of your proceedings, and

224 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
how deeply impressed he is with the conviction that in
every feature of it and in every stage of the course you
have pursued you have been infiuenced by no other
than the purest and most high principled desire of
assisting him in these arduous and critical times, and of
promoting to the utmost of your power the interests and
welfare of the State.
You will also, I hope, excuse my repeating the sin
cere expression of my gratitude for the kindness which
I have experienced, and for the confidence which you
have shown on many occasions, which has, I assure you,
been most gratifying to my feelings, and wiU not cease
to be so.
Pavilion Aftee thc Very painful conversation for hoth
NOTe'mbCT Parties this morning, and so honourably disin-
14, 1834. terested in Viscount Melbourne, the King can
not permit the day to pass without assuring his lordship
that his Majesty will never forget those words that fell
from the Viscount's mouth during the audience his
lordship had with the King previous to Lord Mel
bourne's taking his leave on his return to London.
I LOSE no time in acquainting you that I have
bourne to just left thc King, and, after two very long and
Confiden- ' unrcscrved conversations upon the state of the
Pavilion, administration, of parties, and of the country,
NovembCT lie has come to the decision that his present
Haiipllit Ministers are so weak in the House of Commons
°"^' '''"¦ that he deems it inexpedient to direct me to
take measures for a new arrangement, but has deter
mined upon sending for the Duke of WeUington. What
will be the consequences God only knows ; at the same
time I am not surprised at his decision, nor do I know

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 225
that I can entirely condemn it. You know the motives
which have led him to form it as well as I do. His
great distrust of the majority of the members of the
present Cabinet ; his particular dislike to John Eussell,
whom I proposed as leader of the House of Commons,
having previously ascertained, as well as I could, that he
would be the person who could undertake it with the
greatest chance of success ; the recent conduct of the
Chancellor, and the absolute disgust and alienation
which it has created in the King's mind ; his lively
apprehension of the measures which he expected to be
proposed to him with respect to the Church ; and some
imprudence on the part of Duncannon, who had opened
to him prematurely the measures which he proposed to
found upon the report of the Commission of Enquiry in
Ireland ^ — these considerations, reinforced by the opinion
that the Church and Conservative party is of great and
growing strength in the country, have led him to this
conclusion, and it is impossible to say, and I apprehend
that you wiU not be inclined to pronounce, that all these
feelings are unreasonable and unfounded. It is almost
superfluous to state to you that towards me personally
the King's conduct has been most fair, honourable, and
kind ; and I owe it to him to say that, whether his deci
sion be right or wrong, I feel confident that he has come
to it conscientiously upon his own conviction, that it is
the best, and unbiassed by any other advice or influence
whatever. The contrary will be said, and attacks will
be levelled against the Queen and others, but I do believe
that there is not the slightest ground for them.
All now depends upon which party is the strongest
' Lord Duncannon greatly alarmed the King by suggesting the pro
priety of suspending the non-cure parishes — that is, parishes without any
cure of souls {Stoclimar, i. 331). Q

226 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
in the country — the peers, the clergy, the gentry, the
Irish Protestants on the one side ; or the Eadicals and
Eoman Catholics upon the other. Much depends also
upon the conduct of the more moderate reformers ; a
class smallest in number, but in such times as these of
considerable influence.
I have no time to write more. I shall be glad to
hear from you. It is unnecessary to request you to be
cautious respecting the contents of this letter, but I must
say that I have not, and shaU not, express myself with
the same entire unreserve to any other person.
It is quite unnecessary to re-tell the story of Lord Brougham's
unjustifiable communication to the Times, with the gratuitous
and malicious addition, ' The Queen has done it all.' After the
appearance of the announcement, the Ministry could only resign
with so much good grace as they could command.
Downing ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
November ^^ your Majcsty, aiid returns your Majesty his
16, 1834. most humble, warm, and most grateful thanks
for the truly gracious letter he has this morning had
the honour of receiving from your Majesty. Viscount
Melbourne upon his part can never forget either your
Majesty's words or manner upon the late occasion, and
your Majesty may rely upon it that any sendee of which
Lord Melbourne is capable will be rendered, not merely
as a matter of duty, but with all the warmth of the most
grateful feelings and the strongest personal attachment
and devotion.
Downing ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
November ^° your Majesty, and begs to acquaint your
15, 1834. Majesty that he this morning submitted to his
colleagues the written communication which y^our Ma-
jestyr placed in Viscount Melbourne's hands yesterday at

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 227
Brighton. Viscount Melbourne is directed by them to ex
press to your Majesty their grateful sense of the uniform
kindness and condescension which they have met whilst
they have had the honour cf serving your Majesty,
and to express their wiUingness to discharge the duties
of their respective offices until their successors are
appointed.^
Lord Mel- ^ HA.VE tliis momiug received your letter of the
Lord Grey. 16th. It has givcii luc great satisfaction, be-
Srconfi- cause it entirely coincides with my own opinions,
south^' ^¦"¦'^ because it confirms me in the consciousness
street, ^j^j^^ J took the risflit line in the two audiences
November o
18, 1834. which I had of the King at Brighton. I told
him that I was ready^ to attempt to carry on the Govern
ment with the materials which were at my disposal, but
at the same time I laid before him the difficulties which
were to be encountered, and also the difficulties and
dangers of a change. I also told him that I had no
doubt, as I have not, that, notwithstanding the loss of
Althorp, the Government would still retain the confi
dence and support of the House of Commons. He made
his election, I believe, conscientiously and uninfluenced
by others, and I cannot positively venture to pronounce
that he was wrong. At the same time it is a fearful
expedient ; and if the Duke of WeUington should either
fail in forming a Government or be speedily overthrown,
those who may then be called upon to act will be placed
in circumstances of embarrassment which I cannot con
template without serious alarm.
I entirely agree with y^ou as to the line which it will
be our duty then, as it is now, steadily to pursue ; but
^ They were, however, dismissed before their successors were
appointed. a 2

228 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the difficulty of pursuing it, the difficulty of supporting
the institutions of the country and of resisting violent
change and daring innovation, will be much increased
by that which has now taken place.
. . . Everything appears to me likely to pass
The same ™ . -, .^ ^ ^ ^ . ^ . -, L,
to the on quietly, as 1 am sure 1 wish it to do. The
Confiden- efforts made to raise a flame in London seem to
tial. . ,. - -
South me quite contemptible, and to proceed from
Noveriber the lowcst quarters. The great difficulty, as it
appears to me, that the new Government will
have to contend with, will be that of bringing forward
such measures of reformation as, I believe, they must
bring forward without alienating many of their sup
porters, and without exposing themselves to such
obloquy and ridicule for inconsistency as it is almost
impossible for them to stand against.
Early in December Lord Melbourne, having refused an earl
dom and the Garter, went to Melbourne House, and at Derby
made two speeches in explanation of his position. The follow
ing letter from Lord Duncannon is quoted because Greville
attributes to the reproaches of the Home Secretary the change
of tone which he discovers in Lord Melbourne's second speech.
But the letter, though rather oddly worded, is not at all recrimi
natory ; and a careful examination of Lord Melbourne's second
speech does not disclose that ' eating of his words,' those ' am
plifications, modifications, and explanations ' which, according
to the Clerk of the Council, ' exhibited him in a very discredit
able and lamentable point of view.' On the contrary, it is a very
honourable and moderate speech, and Greville must obviously
have been misinformed.'

The great question of whether the King acted
Melbourne, -^^ggj^y ^nd jirudciitly towards his people re
mains to be seen. My own opinion is that he
' For the speech, which is not otherwise remarkable, see Torrens, ii.
58-63.

To Lord
Melbour:December
18, 1884.

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 229
did not. Neither of the parties that have divided this
country are strong enough by themselves to form a
government, and the only chance, as I have thought, of
preventing such concession to popular feeling as almost
amounts to revolution was to be found in the confidence
that I knew that the House of Commons was prepared
to give y^ou ; and I feel assured that they would have
supported y^ou in resisting triennial Parliaments, ballot,
extension of suffrage, and some other matters of no real
moment, but much thought of hj the King, in considera
tion of the good measures you were about to propose in
the form of tithe. Church, corporations, and Dissenters.
But how now stands the case ? The party that were
willing to accede to Althorp's wish, and would have
acceded to y^ours, is irritated, and in that state plunges
into promises that I am aware must embarrass a new
government. The taunts of the Tories, their own safety
at a dissolution, the certainty that the Government
cannot last, tend to make a junction of all persons
opposed to Tory rule.
A new House of Commons assembled, and, as I
believe, the new Government within the shortest space
of time turned out, the King will perhaps try all expe
dients — but be assured he will fail.
A few of our nervous friends may^ shrink from us,
in the expectation of preventing measures which their
desertion would only precipitate. A thorough change
must come, and the measures which have led the King
to adopt the course he lately took will be adopted, either
by yrourself, moderately, but still more effectively than
we had proposed, or by others in a manner that would
carry with it the overthrow of Protestantism in Ireland,
and consequently strike a hard blow at the Church here.
Unless a great alteration takes place in public feeling,

230 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
and party feeling, and kingly feeling. Brougham wUl
not be Chancellor. In consideration of the wisdom and
policy of the King you must bear this in mind, and re
collect that the course taken by the King has given an
importance to Durham he never had before, and has
imparted an almost sovereign sway to O'Connell. Has
the King then considered the state of things inevitable
at the meeting of Parliament ? I care not for a few de
sertions ; in the present temper and feeling of the country
a Tory Government cannot last.
The Tories, then, a strong party, are just out ;
Brougham is denounced by^ the King, and not upheld by
his own friends ; Durham in England, and O'Connell in
Ireland are forced forward prominently. The Wliigs
alone cannot form a Government that would stand a
week. Such is the state of things — for it is useless to shut
one's eyes to the fact — that has been brought about by
the extraordinary course taken by his Majesty.
A case might arise to justify the King to the coun
try by the violence of the measures that were to be pro
posed to him. Such, he will never venture to teU you,
was his real opinion of the Church Bill. I, perhaps,
should never have spoken to him or written upon the
subject, but to the princijile of the Bill I proposed, not
once but often, he agreed. But suppose the Tory
Government produced a succession of Church and
Corporation reforms. The case, it ajipears to me,
will only be worse. Once proposed, stronger measures
will be forced upon them, which they must either
submit to with a total loss of character and con
sistency, or be beat ; and in either case their faU is
certain. You or Althorp are the only jiersons to whom the

THE FIRST MELBOURNE ADMINISTRATION 231
King or country wiU look. You should, therefore,
knowing his present fixed determination, turn the state
of things in your mind, and consider what is to be done
under the circumstances to which the King's rash deter
mination has reduced the country.

232 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE VIII
IN OPPOSITION
DEOBM833E 1834— Apeil 1835
Before Christmaq Lord Melbourne was back in the neighbour
hood of London, and in the following month was in active
correspondence with his late colleagues, and especially with
Lord Grey, on the tactics of the Opposition. He appears to
have been afraid of Eadical violence, but at the same time un
able to see his way to a coalition with the Stanleyites, whereby
a middle party would have been formed, excluding Toryism on
the one hand and Radicalism on the other.
I AGREE with nearly all your letter, and very
From Lord ^ ^ .^ -^ , ., -^ . , . ', '',
HoUand to mucli morc than i could wish with the general
Lord Mel- _ ., , ., ^ ^ . ^ ° .
bourne. tending and result ; and yet 1 thmk necessity,
January hoiiour, and cvcn reason, apart from passion,
22 1835 must make you try to do what you can to turn
out a Tory Ministry, and to reinstate one in character,
composition, and spirit like that over which Grey and
you presided. I think you, and I include him in the
observation, are bound to encourage and assist in such
an undertaking, and I disapprove strongly of Althorp
holding himself so much absolved from labouring in the
vinej'ard. John, as you saj, is and must be leader, and he has
many of the best qualifications of one ; but yet there
are certain requisites, -more especially necessary in op
position, in which he is lamentably deficient, and which

IN OPPOSITION 233
must be supplied by some other devices if you reaUy
intend to keep a large body of men, and especiaUy the
young ones, together. He takes no pains, nor, if he did,
has the knack, to collect the opinions of others or to
enlist their vanity, their ambition, their interests, and
their affections in giving effect to them. Alderman
Combe ^ said opposition wanted a focus, and I in a
saucy joke pretended that he thought that word Latin
for Fox ; but what the man meant to say was correct.
The various rays of light and heat that beat against a
government must be concentrated to raise any warmth,
or at least any^ flame that is capable of destroying so
close compacted an edifice as a Ministry must be ; and,
if Johnny is not active or communicative enough to
inspire such a feeling, some meeting or consultation
must be organised and constructed of a nature to in
spire him and give authority to all he says and does in
concert with them. He comes to town to-morrow, and
a letter to him in Queen Street will reach him.
As to men, I entirely concur in what you say and
determine about D. and B.,^ and as far as concert
and agreement and negotiation go about O'Connell too.
But if on a change of government he were willing
to accept the EoUs, the Bench, or anything of that
sort, I own I should think the Minister who neglected
such an opportunity of spiking so vast an instrument
of mischief and annoyance both culpable and foolish.
I am afraid you are too much in the right in sup
posing a junction with Stanley impracticable^ and in
conjecturing that his conduct and speeches in the in
terim would make it unpopular. But yet I think it
ought to be tried, or at least all things or words that
' Alderman Combe was an energetic Liberal.
^ Obviously Durham and Brougham.

234 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
tend to render it impossible should be carefuUy avoided
and discouraged ; and I do not at all agree with you
that the apprehension, however plausible, of subsequent
disagreement and reviving jealousies or dislike should
be admitted as an ingredient in your motives for not
accomplishing it. For no reconciliation of parties who
have once separated can be made to which such objec
tions would not apply, and you must be aware, as your
Derby speech admitted and urged, of the necessity of
union if you intend to avert the necessity of submission
and surrender.
As to your principles, there seems to me no diffi
culty whatever in an adherence to your first — the main
tenance, vindication, or commendation of the last
Ministry. None, I conceive, wiU exact confession of
error in the past or of amendment in the future. Nor
do I think that you would be urged to support in op
position what you opposed in Ministry, in any way at
least that would forfeit your character in the country
or lower yourself in your own esteem.
It does not' seem that many have pledged themselves
to BaUot, and it was notorious that Althorp was friendly
to the principle of it while in Ministry. You could not,
therefore, prevail upon the whole mass of your party to
oppose it, much less to renounce it on principle as
utterly and for ever inadmissible ; but y^ou and others
would have full authority enough with them to prevent
their pledging themselves to it as a party^ measure, and
after you had resisted it, you would remain as much
the head of the whole party as before. It would not,
therefore, be considered an insurmountable obstacle to
forming a Ministry composed of men who differed about
it unless you chose.
Pensions certainly have their difficulty. I quite

IN OPPOSITION 235
agree that we — that is, the late Ministry and persons in
office — must out of office vote as we did in, and indeed
I should go further, and do aU I could to engage our
friends to do so also ; but it is clear that we could
hardly have secured a majority again on that subject if
we had remained in office, and in opposition we have
no chance of prevailing on the bulk of our party to
follow us. The measure, therefore, must take its chance.
If the Tories are beat upon it, the thing will be over
before you are caUed upon to form a Ministry. If the
Tories resist it successfuUy, you must attempt to do so
too when you are Ministers ; and if you are called upon
to form a Ministry before the matter is brought on
again, you must endeavour to devise betimes some
method of dealing with it wliich will reconcile your
friends and the public, and yet not expose you to the
reproach of inconsistency or imposture. I do not think
you are in a situation in which you are at all called
upon to court popularity. It is quite sufficient to avoid
the reality, the appearance, or the boast of defying it.
Your course and tone of measures seem to me easy
enough. Your difficulties of men are much greater,
and also aU your means of collecting what your party
really wish, and of making them act in concert and
cordiality for the attainment of it, are very defective,
and must be supplied by meetings and intercourse,
especially of young men in the Commons.
Lord Mel -'- ^"^^^^ I'^o^ Written to you lately upon public
Lor™Gre ^ffairs, although, as you must suppose, naturally
Confiden- jj^ost aiixious to Icam your opinion upon thtm,
hanger, bccausc it appeared to me that no ultimate
January -*¦ -•-
23, 1835. opinion could be formed by any one until we
had an opportunity of seeing the result of the elections,

236 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
and of ascertaining a little what would be the real
character and complexion of the new House of Com
mons. I think we may now conjecture it with some
thing of certainty.^ The supporters of the Ministry will
be more numerous than was expected, and their com
mon danger and common interest will make them
a firm and united party. From all I can learn, and
from the event of some of the popular elections, there
certainly is a change in the political sentiments of some
part of the community ; and a very slight change, joined
to the influence of the Government, is sufficient to give
a preponderance to a party so naturally strong as is the
Tory party in this country. Still I am confidently as
sured that they will be in a minority ; [not] a large one,
but a decided minority. Wliat will be the temper and
disposition of the majority, as there are many new men
amongst them, and as general denominations of Whig,
Eadical, Conservative, and so forth are very uncertain
tests of the real practical character of men, it is most
difficult to form any estimate. But supposing, as will
most probably be the case, that this majority wiU be
very inveterate against the Ministry and eager for action,
it becomes matter of very serious consideration what
course it is prudent, and indeed justifiable, to pursue.
Are we, or am I, justified in declaring a decided op
position to the present Government, unless we see a
reasonable prospect of being able to form another in
case we are successful ; and what are our prospects in
this respect ? When I had once embarked with the late
Government, I deemed it my duty to the King, to the
country^, and more particularly^ to that part of the
country which had supported us, to attempt to keep
' The elections gave the Opposition a majority, variously calculated at
from five -and- twenty to forty votes.

IN OPPOSITION 237
that Government together under every difficulty, and
to adhere even to its remains, after it had been deprived
of its strength and of those very members to whom
personally I was most attached, and that notwithstand
ing the embarrassments with which we were surrounded,
and the many evils and inconveniencies which had
existed from the beginning in the very bosom and con
stitution of the party. This was my object from the
beginning to the end, and I acted with all the power
I could for its fulfilment. But this is now at an end.
This is a new point of departure. I consider m5'self
now free, entirely free, to choose both the principles
upon which, and the men with whom, I will consent to
engage either in government or in opposition. Now
the difficulties with resjoect to the government of the
country, with respect to further measures, seem to me
to be little or nothing. The course seems plain and
easy in every direction. In an empire like ours there
will always be many questions pending, there will
alway^s be peril and apprehensions in some quarter or
another ; but there appears to me at present to exist as
little of this nature as can be reasonably expected. Not
so the difficulties with respect to men. They appear to
me to be irreparable and irreconcilable. I will have
nothing more to do with Brougham. I need not state
to you the reasons of this determination. They reduce
themselves readily under two heads — viz. his whole
character, and his whole conduct. I will have nothing
to do with Durham. For obvious reasons I forbear to
state to you my reasons for this decision ; nor need I
account for my third peremptory exclusion, which is
O'ConneU. Now, with all these exclusions, with all the
resentment which they would create, and with the for-
"midable elements of party which they would leave not

2.38 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
reduced to order and at liberty to unite and coalesce,
is it possible for Lansdowne or me, or would it be pos
sible even for you to form a Ministry with which it would
be justifiable to undertake the government of the coun
try ? I have omitted to mention minor difficulties, which,
however, would be found sufficiently embarrassing— such
as Welleslej^ and Littleton, whom undoubtedly it was
the most daring temerity, and only to be palliated by
the very equivocal position in which both Brougham
and Althorp had placed themselves, to leave in Ireland
at the end of the last session, and who lost no time in
proving by the most absurd and reckless conduct that
they had learned nothing by experience ; ^ and EUice and
P. Thomson, who from the beginning of the last Govern
ment conducted themselves with respect to the press
in a manner which, as I have a friendship for both, I
will abstain from characterising. But be assured that,
if ever a negotiation were to be opened with Stanley,
&c., personal feelings with respect to the latter named
individuals and others would be found a great obstacle
to its success.
I would now for a moment consider the question in
a more enlarged point of view, and with reference to
the actual state of feeling in the country^ as evidenced
by the recent elections. The increase of Tories, though
perhaps principally owing to the natural influence of
the Government and of the King's name, shows to a
certain degree a change of opinion in the country. The
elections have been for the most part very hardly con
tested, and veiy nearly run, which shows a very even
' It is impossible to reconcile this statement with Lord Melbourne's
letter to Lord Wellesley, written towards the end of August (Pearce's
Life, iii. 408), in which it is said that there is no man ahve more capable
of solving the Irish problem than Lord Wellesley. In fact, Lord Mel
bourne treated him harshly, though he was always a difficult man.

IN OPPOSITION 239
balance of parties. The majority of the House of Com
mons is misceUaneous, and includes many persons who
have pledged themselves to measures against which I
am decided. The Plouse of Commons itself is the
greatest power in the State ; but it is an unstable power,
its very existence being precarious. The House of
Lords and the Crown as long as the constitution lasts
are fixed and settled authorities. Now, is it not a serious
question for a man to decide whether he shall, at the
head of a majority of the House of Commons, engage in
a political warfare with the Crown, with the decided
majority of the House of Peers, with almost the whole
of the clergy, and I do not overstate when I add, with
three parts at least of the gentlemen of the country ?
Whither will such a contest lead us ? Will it not neces
sarily conduct to the adoption of desperate measures,
of which for one I am determined not to incur the
responsibility. You wiU consider this letter not as
deciding anything, except as far as it relates to indivi
duals, and only intended to propose these questions for
consideration, in order that I may learn your sentiments
and receive y^our advice. It is written without reserve
and in the utmost confidence ; and you will, I am sure,
feel the importance of the conjuncture, and the necessity^
of taking no step without well considering its conse
quences.
Lord Grey ^ HAVE been prevented, by an absence from
Melbourne houce Oil a visit, from returning an earlier
Petoua' 1 answer to your letter of the 23rd of last month.
1835. There was nothing, however, that made an
immediate reply of material consequence. The questions
which you propose for my consideration are very difficult.
Upon the circumstances on which they are founded, as

240 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
they result from the present state of public opinion, of
measures, and of men, I generally agree with you. The
result of the elections seems to me to prove undeniably
that the feeling of the country is decidedly in favour
of the principle of Eeform ; in other words, of the
principles on which we acted. The necessity under
which Sir Eobert Peel and his colleagues have found
themselves compelled, to a certain degree at least, to
profess an acquiescence in these principles, would be a
decisive proof of this were there no other. Here, then,
I think we have a satisfactory ground for deciding, in
the first place (I say we, for I stiU continue to consider
myself as one of you, though no longer an active asso
ciate), that our conduct out of Government should be
the same as it was in office — to work out the necessary
reforms which the state of our institutions may require,
upon safe and moderate principles, in accordance with
the constitution of our mixed government and with the
spirit of the age.
On the measures which would be required for this
purpose I think with you that there would be httle
difficulty, except, perhaps, with respect to the Irish
Church. I doubt very much as to the way in which
any proposition upon this question, if it comes to be
made a subject of party contest, may be taken by the
public ; and I should be sorry to see an occasion given
for a direct breach with Stanley, to whom I think you
must look as a necessary card in the formation of a new
administration. I should, therefore, strongly advise
against a premature discussion of this very embarrass
ing matter ; there would be great advantage in waiting
for the measures which the Ministers must propose
upon it, and for this, I think, you have sufficient
ground in the appointment of the Commission, whose

IN OPPOSITION 241
report ought to be received before any decision is
taken. Then comes the last and greatest difficulty, with
respect to men. I do not wonder at your positive ex
clusions, nor am I much disposed to dissent from them,
except that positive exclusions, with a view to future
events of which one cannot beforehand calculate the
exigencies, are never prudent, and seldom possible to be
adhered to. The chief embarrassment seems to me to
be this. You cannot abstain from taking an active part
in the discussions which the late events must produce.
To you and to Lord Spencer a powerful party, who have
real claims upon you, and whom it would be a public
misfortune to see disunited and dissolved, will naturally
look for assistance and advice. In concerting the
measures to be taken, how can you reject, from merely
personal reasons which it is difficult to assign, the co
operation of a person like Brougham, who was intimately
connected with you in office, and who professes the same
principles, and who, whatever niaj^ be the justice of the
censure which he has so generally^ incurred, wiU, imme
diately after the meeting of Parliament, by his extra
ordinary activity and talents again attract the attention,
and not improbably conciliate the favour, of a great part
of the public. His case is quite different from that c f
O'ConneU and Lambton. They are both to be considered
as Eadicals, with whom I must regard our difference as
no less decided, and ought to be as strongly marked,
as with the Tories. Here, then, there is a difference of
principle at once justifying a refusal to co-operate. But
Brougham has lately, at least (how long he, however,
may continue I will not pretend to say — in opposition,
probably not long), professed moderate opinions in con
sonance with ours. Acknowledging, therefore, the
R

042 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
objections which you state to ' his whole character and
whole conduct,' it seems to me very difficult to keep
clear of him, and that it is hardly possible to go on
either with him or without him.
What, then, is to be done ? Leaving this difficulty
in a great degree to time for its solution, and avoiding
as far as possible both an open quarrel and too intimate
a connection with him, I should say that the best way
would be for you to consult with Lansdowne, Spencer,
John Eussell, and such others of your late coUeagues as
inspire you with the greatest confidence, upon the course
proper to be taken at the commencement of the session,
and, having defined it, to trust to the support which it
may receive from those who concur with you in principle
and opinion. With respect to the particular measures
which should be taken for this purpose, I am too far
removed from the scene of active politics, and have too
little communication with others, to give a decided or
satisfactory opinion. But my plan, if I were still to
take a lead, would be to bring forward no direct
question, unless something in the Address to which I
could not assent forced me to an amendment, till the
views of Ministers were fully developed. I, therefore,
entirely disapprove of opposing the choice of Sutton as
Speaker, or cf bringing on any direct question, on which
I have little doubt that there would be a majority for
the Ministers, which would help them very much for
the remainder of the session. Your want of confidence
in them, your vindication of the late Government, your
views for the future, might all be gone into in a dis
cussion on the Address. This would leave everything
open, would pledge nobody against you, and would —
which I think of the greatest importance — avoid the risk
of driving Stanley to support the Ministers on a par-

IN OPPOSITION 243
ticular question, which might facilitate or prepare agree
ment with them, and cut off in the same degree all hope
of co-operation with you. In this way I think you
would have a good game. The Ministers are pledged
to some measures of Eeform. If they are such as to
satisfy public expectation, a division amongst themselves,
or at least among some of their supporters, is, I think,
inevitable, and they are too weak to bear any defection.
If they faU short of what is reasonably demanded, their
immediate defeat in the House of Commons is equaUy
certain. And then there might arise the possibility of
a junction which might enable you to form an admin
istration standing equaUy clear of the extremes of both
parties. As to the other persons — WeUesley, Littleton, EUice,
and P. Thomson, they are of much less consequence,
and I do not foresee much difficulty. I don't know to
what you aUude in mentioning the conduct of the two
last with respect to the press. All this is very unsatis
factory, but I am not able to render it clearer or shorter.
I shall not move till quite the end of this month or the
beginning of next.
Lord John ^ ^^^ vcry glad to find that Lord Grey recom-
LorTMeU mcuds, with respect to Brougham, so cautious
OuMm ' ^^^^ conciliatory a course. His merits are great
p'brukr 9 ^^^^ couspicuous ; his demerits vexatious but
1835. ^Q^ vital. My opinion respecting an admin
istrative office may be wrong ; but at all events it
would be premature to pretend to settle it now. I am
quite satisfied that you should act on Lord Grey's
advice for the present.
What Lord Grey says of other matters is, I think,
said in ignorance of the temper of the Commons, of the
E 2

241 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
country, nay, of the Tories likewise ; for, depend upon
it, they wiU agree well enough in their little schemes of
Eeform, and if any of them are defeated they wiU only
rejoice and say, We * are impracticable. I hope you will
be in town soon to stay. Many members are arriving
every day. I send you letters from Eice and Aber
oromby which are worth your attention. Althorp is of
opinion that we cannot avoid an amendment, and that
it is likewise the best policy to have one. This is my
view ; but I think the more cautiously worded the
better. I have sent mine to Lansdowne, who will
infuse a few more drops of wisdom into it. Some few
crotchety people about the Speaker — ^Bainbridge of
Taunton, Ferguson of Eaith, and one or two more
Scotch. The division wiU be very close.
Lord Mel- ^ "'^^ST Write you one line to thank you for your
L™dGrey. letter. I am infinitely obhged to you for it. I
Pais*"' concur in almost every word of it, and if the
Peb?uary6 coursc whicli you rccommcnd be profitable and
1835. practicable it ought to be pursued, and then
my situation will be comparatively plain and easy ; but
you have not considered the other alternative, which
presents the real difficulty. I think it very probable
that when members come to London we may find that
a majority of the House of Commons are not prepared
to come to a decisive vote against the present admin
istration, and in that case the fear of division and
defeat will have its effect upon the more eager and
Adolent ; but if the contrary should be the case, and the
decided majority are ready for and desirous of such a
vote, y^ou know enough of parties to be aware that
nothing will restrain them from coming to it, and then
' That is, the Opposition.

IN OPPOSITION 245
in what a state of embarrassment shall [we] be placed.
Then will arise the state of a scanty, disorderly composed
majority of the House of Commons being opposed to aU
the permanent and stable powers, whicli I enumerated
in my former letter. The question of the Speaker, to
which you aUude, affords some data upon the subject.
I am of opinion that, upon principle, it is right to oppose
his re-election.^ I think the Speaker of the House of
Commons should not take a part in political changes,
and particularly not in a change which there was every
reason to beheve was disagreeable to the majority of
the House, of which he is the servant, and which in
volved its dissolution. It might, however, as you say,
have been more prudent to have acquiesced ; but I was
informed upon all sides that this was a resolution which
it was impossible to adopt, and that the only course
which was left open was to select the best candidate,
which by general consent, as far as it could be collected,
was pronounced to be Aberoromby.'^ Much will depend
upon this decision. If it should be unsuccessful, it will
check the eager and induce prudence and moderation ;
but if it be successful, it will not be easy to hold them
in after it. I am, however, well aware that no rules
can be laid down beforehand for our guidance in future
circumstances, but we must act accordingly as they
exist at the time. About Brougham I entirely agree
with you, and shall follow your advice. It has given
me great annoyance to see it stated in the newspapers-
' Mr. Maimers Sutton had played a prominent part in the Duke's
attempt to form a Government iu the crisis of the Eeform Bill, and had
been in continual communication with the Duke during the late change
of administration. ^ Mr. Aberoromby was supported by the more extreme Liberals, Mr.
Spring Rice by the Whigs, and Eord Melbourne foimd their claims most
difficult to adjust.

246 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
that Aberoromby had been preferred to Eice at the
suggestion of O'ConneU. I can only say that the very
contrary has been represented to me, and that it was
distinctly stated that O'Connell made no objection, and
would vote for anyone who was proposed from our side
of the House. As to the communications which may
take place between some of our friends and O'Connell,
you are aware that it is impossible for me to approve
of them, but you must not suspect me of countenancing
or even of being conscious of them.^ I agree also with
you about the Irish Church. It is in itself a difficult
question, at least practically, and it appears to me very
doubtful how it may be taken in this country. I think,
therefore, we should be cautious upon it ; but it is the
opinion of many, and amongst the rest of Howick, ex
pressed in a letter to John EusseU, that it should be
made the subject of our amendment to the Address.
Lord Grey ^ HAVE ncvcr had any communication with
MeuSurne Taylor, or with anybody at aU connected with
prbruar ^^^^ Court, siiicc you left office, but I have heard
3, 1835. — though in a rather circuitous way, yet from one
to whom I am inclined to give credit — that the Ministers
are prepared, at the meeting of Parliament, to make a
full statement of all the circumstances which induced
the King to change the administration, and for this pur
pose to produce aU the correspondence that passed, and
a minute of the last conversations between you and the
King, in his Majesty's handwriting, and sanctioned by
your signature.^ This may or may not be true, but I
' These communications ultimately had issue in the Lichfield House
compact (March 12 and 23) ; but with those negotiations Lord Melbourne,
whether rightly or wrongly, would have nothing whatever to do, and
strongly objected to tliem.
^ It is, perhaps, of some significance that the King should have written

IN OPPOSITION 247
do not think it improbable, as there is a precedent for
it in 1807,^ when Cabinet minutes were very freely, and
in some instances not very fairly, produced. At all
events it is well that you should be prepared ; and I have
therefore thought it right — though, if true, you probably
wiU have heard it from others — to send you the infor
mation which I have received.
In reflecting upon the letter which I wrote the other
day, but of which I have kept no copy, I am fearful
that in what I said of Lambton and O'Connell I may
have appeared to put them too much together. This
was by no means my intention ; I consider their opinions,
and I should hope their objects, to be very different.
O'Connell is to be resisted as a man who means nothing
but mischief for his own personal object. Lambton has
formed bad connections, and has put forward opinions
which would make it ihipossible for me to join with him
in a Government, were such a thing for me stiU possible,
as I should find it to be necessary to insist upon the
Government's pledging itself to oppose the three addi
tional articles of faith.' It is possible that he may
hereafter see the folly of them, or at least the inexpe
diency of pressing them. But for the present they seem
to form an insurmountable obstacle to a union with
persons who think as you and I do upon them.
Perhaps I ought to add that as to one of the articles — ¦
viz. shortening the duration of Parliament — though I
should be very unwilling to open the question anew, I
do not think a proposition for limiting Parliaments to
to Sir Robert Peel on January 14 a long memorandum, dealing not only
with the late crisis, but also with his ' general proceedings ' since his
accession. It is to be found in Stockmar's Memoirs, chap. xiv.
' When the ' Talents ' administration was overthrown.
'' Apparently the B allot, triennial Parliaments, and a further instal
ment of Eeform.

248 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
five years, as a compromise for carrying an enactment
to remove the necessity of vacating seats upon appoint
ments to office, one to be refused without consideration.
How the devil does John Eussell make out the ques
tion of the Speakership to be one of principle? Is
Sutton a whit more of a party man than he was .when
we supported him ? Had he not then (in 1832) taken
an active part in the attempt to form a new administra
tion as he has now done ? and is he one whit more of a
party man than Aberoromby ?
John Eussell says you have agreed to send out letters
for an attendance to oppose Sutton, but that you will
not persevere if you find the case desperate. Nobody
can be more strongly of opinion than I am that the at
tempt is most inexpedient, but, having once committed
yourselves to it, I more than doubt whether the matter
would be mended by your giving it up without trial.
Lord Mel- ^ HAVE received this morning yours of the 2nd
Lord'orey (? 3rd) iustaut. I wrotc to y^ou ycstcrday lu reply
tiaf^Pana- ^^ your last. Many thanks for your information.
Pebfua -'¦ li3,ve heard something of the same nature from
7, 1835. other quarters. They cannot, in fairness or in
prudence, produce such a minute, unless its accuracy
has first been admitted hj both parties to the conversa
tion ; and no such document has yet been submitted to
me for my sanction. If it were, I own I should have
great difficulty, upon constitutional grounds, in affixing
my signatuie to it, even if I were satisfied that it was
correct. The advice actually given to the sovereign,
the measures which were proposed to him in such a
case, the public may have a right to know, and the
Ministers, for their own justification, may be permitted
to divulge ; but the arguments by which that advice was

IN OPPOSITION 249
supported, and still more the various observations upon
men, measures, and opinions wliich were naturally
made in such a conversation, the public have not a right
to know, nor is it for the convenience of the public
service that they should be published. The Tory party,
intending to make government impossible under the
House of Hanover, clogged the Act of Settlement with
this restriction amongst others — that all business should
be transacted in the Privy Council, and that every Privy
CounciUor should sign the advice which he gave.^ This
part of the Act was repealed in the 4tli of Anne, precisely,
I apprehend, upon the ground that I have stated — viz.
that it would entirely preclude and prevent free discussion
between the monarch and his advisers. Such a mode of
proceeding would at once break in upon the constitu
tional doctrine of the irresponsibility of the Crown, and
perhaps make it a question of veracity and good faith
between him and me. The case of 1807 was one of this
character. I remember it well. The question was
whether the King had given his consent to the intro
duction of the Bill or not ; and I recoUect y^our words in
the House of Commons, when you stated that you had
understood him to give a cold assent, a reluctant assent,
but still an assent. This, however, was a statement of
the actual practical result of your audience with him,
and not a detailed account of all which passed during
that audience. There are here no Cabinet minutes to
produce. . . .^ This is all that I should think myself at
liberty to declare, being the actual advice given and
decision taken in those conferences ; and it appears to
me that it would be unprecedented, inconvenient, and
' It was rather an attempt to prevent the institution of the Cabinet
as distinct from the Privy Council.
" Lord Melbourne here recapitulates the circumstances attendant on
his resignation.

2.50 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
dangerous to go into a detail of the arguments which
were employed, and the remarks which were made, in
volving, as they of course must, the interests of the
country, the policy of measures, the character of men.
I have no objection to do so if I am forced into it, but
I shall take the line of protesting against it. I am
sensible of the importance of the matter, and should be
glad to have your opinion upon it.
Lord John showed me Grey's letter to you. His
Lordiliei-" commcuts OU your difficulties are most just, but
PebruM -^ ^*-* ^^'^^ think he suggests any very distinct
9, 1835. solution of them, especially of the most urgent,
Brougham. WeUesley thinks, and I believe with some
reason, that Brougham is more likely just now to take
his first impression of things, and to square his course
accordingly, from what he hears from him (WeUesley)
than from any of us, and he is therefore very consider
ately anxious to make such statements and convey such
advice as you and John EusseU would most approve.
I referred him to both of you, and John then referred
him to you ; but if it is of any importance that he should
have his cue, no time should be lost in giving it him, for
Brougham wiU be here to-morrow, and WeUesley will
see him the next day. He told me that he should in
culcate, both as a personal friend and as a politician, the
necessity of a little quiescence ; but he will not, I think,
consistently with his own opinion and feelings, ad
minister on public matters quite so much anodyne as
Grey's prescription in his letter to you contains, hi
truth, I suspect the patient's stomach wiU hardly bear
such sedatives — and by the patient I mean the mass of
our friends and WeUesley, as well as Brougham and
others ; all of whom would be more aptly^ designated

IN OPPOSITION 251
by the title of ' the impatient,' for they wiU aU be with
difficulty restrained from pressing forward measures cf
Church reform in Ireland and England, instead of wait
ing for the measures of their adversaries, which must be
either unsatisfactory in themselves or discreditable to
Ministers, and in either case expose them to the censure
of the public and a loss of influence that must be fatal
to their existence as a Government.
The Irish, and even the English, Eadicals are just
now ' aspiring to be led ' by those they formerly reviled,
and I do believe they will regulate, not only their paces
but the direction of their movements, to such views as
you would hold out to them, even if a junction with
Stanley were not a very distant one ; but one command
neither they nor many who would disclaim the name cf
Eadicals as decidedly as Grey himself wiU ever obey,
and that is ' halt,' or ' take your stand here.' I am
sadly afraid that many among them, and among us too,
would be too apt to confound the true Fabian policy of
prudent inaction for a time, the cunctando restituere rem,
with the permanent occupation of a post in which they
are determined not to remain ; and I include Wellesley
among that class because he has, with great emphasis,
•above once assured me that it is his conviction that, if
the present Ministers can stand three weeks after the
meeting of Parliament, their power is secured and a
sy'stem of misgovernment established, and he even added
with some warmth, ' Are you determined to demolish
these men, or are you not? If yes, I act cordially and
strenuously with you ; if no, I tell you fairly I will not.'
This, if you will, is declamation, and his way ; but if it
may be only language with him, it is not a very unusual
or unnatural feeling with those who have been straining
every nerve to give y^ou a majority in Parliament, and

252 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
who are impatient for battle, victory, and triumph. In
considering these matters Fabius himself must take into
calculation the extent of his authority over his troops,
and if he has detached wings ready to serve him in one
course of operations but not in another, he must com
pare, not only the abstract merits of the two systems,
but the comparative advantages of inferior tactics with
a larger force over more perfect tactics with inadequate
means. All Grey says on prospective exclusions is right.
He should apply his principle even more extensively
than he does, and consider all exceptions as temporary
and accidental, O'Connell and all.
I DO not quite comprehend what the plunge is
The same ^ . , ^ i ¦, i • .^ ^ .
to the winch you would take on certain contingencies,
Pebruary but drcad taking now. It seems to me that
none expects you to do more than ' demolish
these men,' as Wellesley calls it ; and they once de
molished, you are as much at liberty as before 'to
determine with what principles and with what associates
you will embark,' always admitting, as you needs must,
that your associates in the work of demolition are at
equal liberty to cliuse their boat when that work is
completed. You will, however, be more likely to have
a choice of companions, and better able to judge of their
qualifications then than now ; and if I saw the practica
bility, I hardly should see the great use, of too definite
and premature arrangement of y'our crew and your
course. In one very embarrassing instance there is, no
doubt, reason to wish it practicable, but in y^our very
letter you acknowledge that it is not so, and express a
hope that it may be dispensed with. I see no use in
Johnny showing Grey's letter to WeUesley ; theie are

IN OPPOSITION 253
expressions in it about Durham he would not like to be
repeated, which might, in truth, be misunderstood.
Wellesley is not at all for the Fabian system, and he
would infer, perhaps, lukewarmness, and disunion, and
what not from the suggestion.
I SENT a copy of your letter of the 1st inst. to
Lord Mel- .^ , _, "^^ "' . , .
bourne to J oliu Eussell, requcstiiig fum to show it only
Brocket to HoUaiid. I am afraid that the course which
Pebruary it rccommends, and which I entirely approve,
11 1835 . . .
is not likely to be very popular with our friends
and supporters. Holland calls it the Fabian system,
admits its prudence, but urges that it will not suit the
impatience of those who are irritated at seeing their
friends turned out, and who have been making great
exertions to secure a majority in the House of Commons.
WeUesley in particular, he states, has repeatedly said
to him, with great emphasis, ' Are you determined to
demolish these men, or are you not? If yes, I act
cordially and strenuously with you ; if no, I tell you
fairly I wiU not.' Many others, no doubt, are of the
same opinion. Spencer is all for an amendment, and
John, in fact, leans to the same opinion, although he
does not state it so broadly. All wiU therefore depend
upon the number of those who may be for moderate
measures. If they are considerable, which I never yet
saw them, they may possibly somewhat restrain the
more violent ; if they are very few and insignificant,
they will only irritate and drive them further. To add
to the whole turmoil and confusion, Brougham, I take
it arrived yesterday or to-day. I shall go to London
on the 15 th, which will be quite early enough to enter
into such a scene of trouble. There is only one point
upon which I have always intended and always omitted

254 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to ask your opinion, and that opinion is, I apprehend,
to be collected from the general import of your former
letter. Do you think there is much to be made in the
way of attack on the conduct of the Duke of WeUington
in taking personally the whole government upon him
self in November last ? ^ It is evident that, according to
the present course and practice of our government, the
offices which he held — such as First Commissioner of the
Treasury and Home Secretary of State — are incom
patible with each other. But is there much in this
objection, seeing that he took them ad interim, and
carefuUy abstained during that period from adopting
any measure of the least importance or doing any
thing more than the most usual and ordinary business ?
I am aware it may be said that the precedent is dan
gerous, and may be pushed further another time, &c.
&c. ; but can more than this be said ? I recollect from
your former letter that you do not think that it forms
a substantive charge ; but I should wish to know how
far and to what extent you are of opinion, upon re
flection, that it affords matter for serious consideration.
Op course the question of the amendment can-
Russei] to not be decided till after the 19th. I sent my
Lord Mel- ., . .^ ^ t- _ ., '1.
bourne. draft to Lord Lansdowne, who approves, i
tial. Queen scud you his letter. Should he see Lord Grey's?
PebruLry I supposo it would bc cuough that you should
inform him of the general contents.
The Irish Church question ought not, I think, as
a separate question, to form part of any amendment,
unless the Tories provoke it.^ But Lord Grey's letter
' Pending the arrival of Sir Robert Peel, the Duke acted as Eirst Lord
of the Treasury, Home Secretary, and two other Secretaries of State.
^ It was more or less ' provoked ' by Peel's Tithe BiU, to which the
appropriation clause was added by the Liberals.

IN OPPOSITION 255
raises an ulterior question. He evidently looks to the
formation of a Liberal government again disunited on
this question, and agreeing to postpone it. If such a
government can be made I should be ready, if Lord
Grey or you sanctioned it by taking the chief post, to
give it what support I could. But I would take no
share in it. Nor would I give any advice to my friends
to take or decline office under it.
Abercromby's prospects are very good. I believe
we shaU have above three hundred in the House, and
this for an opposition is something new. Pray do not
be later than the 15th. I wiU dine with you, if you
like, on the 16th.
P.S. — There is a question of having a meeting on
the 18th, to which Wliigs, Eadicals, and Eepealers
should be invited. I feel doubtful about it, for although
it would concern only the Speaker, a marked union
or disunion between the parties might be expected to
follow. What say you ?
Lord Grey ^'^^ scom to havc anticipated my opinion upon
Me'ibourne ^^^^ maimer in which the Duke of W. accroached
pX-uar t^® whole power of the government. Nothing
14, 1835. could be more unconstitutional, or more dan
gerous as a precedent. It could be justified only upon
the ground of necessity, arising out of some imminent
public danger. Nothing of this sort can be pretended.
At least I never heard that, up to the moment of their
dismissal, the King had intimated any want of confi
dence in his late Ministers, or could pretend that any
attempt had been made to force any measure upon him
whicli it might have been his duty to resist as threaten-
incf dancer to the settled government of the country.
There seems, therefore, to have been no such public

256 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
injury as would justify a departure from the estab
lished usage of leaving the government to be carried
on by the existing Ministers tiU their successors could
be appointed. The precedent, even with the plea of
necessity, would have required some guard to prevent
its being used on all justifiable occasions, and without
it is certainly deserving the severest censure.
It appears to me, therefore, that it is a matter not
to be passed over without some animadversion. But I
do not think it is one which it would be expedient to
make the subject of a direct motion, unless, upon the
discussion which may arise, there should appear to be a
strong and general feeling upon it.
It is very well for Wellesley and others to talk of
demolishing the present Government. But there are
two questions to be asked. Can they demolish ? and, if
they can, can they rebuild ? There is a third, which I
would put to WeUesley. What assistance can be or
will be given to the attempt to demolish ?
As to Holland's opinion, it comes just to this — that
we are to give up what we think prudent and expe
dient, because we cannot restrain the impatience of those
who will listen to nothing but their own conceit or
their own feelings of resentment.
Where is this to end, and to what may it not lead
you ? I have sanguine calculations about the division
on the Speakershij). But I doubt very much the suc
cess, and still more the propriety, of the coercion which
it is attempted to exercise upon the members of the
House of Commons, and I think more wiU probably
depend upon the debate on this than on most questions.
Peel will have a good case, of which he will, with his
usual skill, make the most. Burdett's support of Sutton
will produce a great effect, and if Stanley takes the

IN OPPOSITION 257
same side I think the Government wiU certainly be
successful.^ I write in great haste, but was unwilling
to lose another post.
Pray let me hear, when you have nothing better to
do, how things are going on.
Meanwhile Lord Brougham had returned to town, and de
manded an explanation. He got one with a vengeance.
Lord Mel- You must be perfectly aware that your cha-
wne to j-acter and conduct have since November last
Brooket*™' fomicd the principal and general topic of de-
Pebruary ^^*® ^^^ dlscussiou. I believo mysclf to have
11, 1835. gg^jjj little or nothing anywhere upon the sub
ject. I have written little or nothing, except to one or
two persons, and that in the strictest confidence. At
Lord HoUand's, where politics are talked every day and
all day long, it is of course to be expected that more
observations have been made ; but if you believe that
any hostihty or malignity towards you has prevailed
there, as far as I have been witness to what has passed,
I can assure you that you are misinformed.
It is a very disagreeable task to have to say to a
statesman that his character is injured in the public
estimation ; it is still more unpleasant to have to add
that you consider this his own fault ; and it is idle to
expect to be able to convince almost any man, and
more particularly a man of very superior abilities and
of unbounded confidence in those abilities, that this is
the truth. I must, however, state plainly that your
conduct was one of the principal causes of the dismissal
of the late Ministry, and that it forms the most popular
justification of that step.
' The Stanleyites voted with the Government; nevertheless, Mr.
Aberoromby was elected Speaker by 316 votes to 306. S

258 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Entertaining these opinions, I cannot of course
either complain of or deprecate any explanation which
you may think proper to make, or any course which
y^ou may deem it due to yourself to pursue.
You will not be surprised that I have taken a
The same n -, . n
to the few hours to consider y^our letter, which I re-

same.

soutii ceived y^esterday evening, before I replied to it.
street, , , . p .
Pebruary It IS vcry long, vcry multifarious, and you
yourself state, perhaps with a little exaggera
tion, that the occasion is quite unexampled. You wiU
recollect that I have not commenced a correspondence
of this character, that I have not sought it, that I have
shown nothing but reluctance to embark in it. I made
no answer to your letter of January 22 last from Bor
deaux, a letter fuU of inculpation, invective, and menace.
I showed it to no one, because I thought it better to
avoid the offence which its unmeasured expressions
must necessarily give. I only mentioned to one or two
that I had received a communication from you to that
effect. My letter of the 14tli inst. was in answer to yours
of the preceding day, in which you informed me that
you retracted that part of your letter from Bordeaux in
which you had stated that ' You should take no public
vengeance for what had been done against jou.' This
communication appeared to me to render it necessary
to say, that for myself I could neither complain of nor
deprecate any course which you might think proper to
take upon the meeting of Parliament ; but I must here
assure you that I wrote only for my^self and from my
self, that I consulted no one upon the subject, and that
neither our late coUeagues nor any other person is con
cerned or in any way responsible for that letter or for
any of the opinions contained in it.

IN OPPOSITION 259
You complain that no previous intimation had been
given you that it was thought by any of y^our former
colleagues that your conduct had been, not the cause, as
you state it, but one of the causes of the dissolution of
the late administration. You can only mean that no
formal communication had been made to you to that
effect, because the eight first pages of your letter from
Bordeaux are entirely occupied with complaints that this
charge against you was at that time perpetuaUy made in
the press and at Brookes's, that it was admitted and con
firmed by the silence of your coUeagues upon all public
occasions, and that it was particularly accredited by the
language of Earl Grey's family, which necessarily in
volved Earl Grey himself. You were, therefore, well
aware both of the existence and the prevalence of this
view of y^our conduct.
But perhaps it might have been better if this ex
planation, which I am aware must necessarily have
taken place before the opening of Parliament, had been
entered upon earlier. It was a most disagreeable discus
sion, and it is natural to defer that which is painful as
long as possible. I know its inutility, or rather its evil.
I know that remonstrance and crimination are no good,
that they only increase irritation and render obstinacy
more inflexible. But the question could not have been
avoided, and perhaps it is as well that it has been brought
on in this manner.
When I wrote that your conduct had been amongst
the causes which led to the late change of government,
I did not mean particularly to insist upon that fact,
or StiU less to imply that the disinclination of the Court
was to deprive a man of the support of his allies and
political friends. I only intended to state strongly and
shortly my conviction that, during the four years you
s 2

260 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
had been ChanceUor, you had committed errors and im
prudences of such magnitude as greatly to impair the
vast and almost unparalleled powers which you possess
of rendering service to your country. In your letter
you go through various statements of services which
you have rendered and of sacrifices which you have
made. For the disposal of your patronage, it may have
been as disinterested and as entirely directed by a re
gard to the general interests of the administration as
you represent it to have been ; but it is impossible to
decide this satisfactorily without going into the circum
stances of each case more minutely than I have either
time or wish to do, and therefore I decline giving any
opinion upon this subject. For your Parliamentary
powers, and their prompt, universal, ready, and most
powerful exertion, I at once and for all admit them to
the fullest extent. It is superfluous to say more upon
this subject, and I only entreat you to reflect with your
self what must be the estimate of the counterbalancing
qualities which can induce a man who has anything to
do with political life to run the least risk of depriving
himself of such assistance and support.-^
The journey to Scotland gave very great and general
offence. You say that you intended only a quiet tour
to Dunrobin, and did not expect meetings and addresses.
Everybody else, I can assure you, not only expected
them, but knew that they would take place, and were
greatly apprehensive of the consequences. You assert
' It win be remembered that these are almost the words of Lord
Melbourne's famous retort in the House of Lords : ' My Lords, your
lordships have heard the powerful speech of the noble and learned lord,
one of the most powerful ever delivered in this House, and I leave your
lordships to consider what must be the strength and nature of the objec
tions which prevent any Government from availing themselves of the
services of such a man.' (The speech was made in 1838).

IN OPPOSITION 201
that these public exhibitions annoyed you, and that
you neither sought for nor wished them. This may
possibly be true, I can readily credit it ; but wiU anyone
else credit it ? You know that what is true does not
signify so much as what is believed, and there is hardly
any man alive who wiU give the least credence to such
an assertion. But I acknowledge that you are right, I
was deficient in my duty, I ought to have remonstrated
with you before you left London upon the imprudence
which you were about to commit and the injurious
results which it might produce.
You are generally for specific charges — ubi lapsus,
quid feci f AUow me to observe that there may be a
course and series of very objectionable conduct, there
may be a succession of acts which destroy confidence
and add offence to offence, and yet it may be very diffi
cult to point out any great and marked delinquency. I
will, however, teU y^ou fairly that, in my opinion, you
domineered too much, you interfered too much with
other departments, you encroached upon the province
of the Prime Minister, you worked, as I believe, with
the press in a manner unbecoming the dignity^ of your
station, and y^ou formed political views of your own and
pursued them by means which were unfair towards
your coUeagues. If a proof of this latter accusation
were demanded, I should adduce your conduct in those
unfortunate transactions which led to the resignation
of Lord Grey last summer. Your correspondence with
Lord Wellesley was, I doubt not, of the character which
you described in the House of Lords. I do not think
this was without blame ; but the part which was inde
fensible was, that you directed Littleton to write to Lord
WeUesley to recommend that the three first clauses of
the Coercion BiU should be given up, and should send

262 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
that despatch which in fact overthrew the administration.
This proceeding was quite unjustifiable towards Lord
Grey, and just as much towards myself, who was then
Secretary of State for the Home Department charged
with the affairs of Ireland, and who was entirely neglected
in the matter. Having engaged with that Ministr]',
I thought it my duty to the King and to that large
portion cf the country which had supported us to sub
mit to anything rather than to produce the dissolution of
the Ministry, and therefore I submitted in silence even
to that proceeding upon your part. That Ministry is
now dissolved, not by any act, nor in consequence of any
act, of mine. We stand at a new point of departure,
and it is now right and expedient that I should deter
mine for myself upon what principles and with whom I
will again engage in public affairs. You seem to con
sider my letter as putting an end to the political con
nection which has subsisted between us. You will
observe, however, that it does not express such a deter
mination ; and I beg to repeat and press upon your
attention that it is my letter only, and does not express
the sentiments of any other individual. If you suppose
that my conduct has been influenced by any notion
that you are so lowered and weakened as to be powerless,
I can assure you that you are much mistaken. Nobody
knows and appreciates your natural vigour better than
I do. I know also that those who are weak for good
are strong for mischief. You are strong for both, and
I should both dread and lament to see those gigantic
powers, which should be directed to the support of the
State, exerted in a contrary and opposite direction.
No one can feel more deep concern for any private
difficulties to which y^ou may be exposed than I do, and
if you think for a moment that I take them into the

IN OPPOSITION £63
account against you, I am sure you will not long per
sist in doing me so great an injustice 
I have written this with great pain. I owe it to
myself and to you, to truth and fair dealing, to be
explicit. I can only add that, whatever may be your
determination, no political differences wiU make any
change in the friendship and affection which I have
always felt and still continue to feel for you.
I HAVE felt so very unweU during the last two
The same i t i ^ i i -,
to the days tliat 1 have been unable to reply to your
South last letter. In an affair of a most painful nature
PebruLry it glvcs mc soiBO plcasurc to find that you are
disposed to take mine of the 17th in good part,
and it does not appear to me that it is necessary to
continue the correspondence further than to retract one
or two expressions which have been improperly used,
and to explain one or two facts and opinions which
have been very naturally misconceived.
Your statement with respect to the concern which
you have had with the press of course I must implicitly
believe. I can only lament that a contrary impression
should prevail so greatly, as it undoubtedly does, and
that opposite assertions should be so positively made.
You do not mention in your letter, but I understand
from other quarters that you have taken some, perhaps,
just offence at the word ' domineering.' I am ready to
admit that it was too strong for the occasion, and ex
press my regret at having used it. The question of in
terfering in other departments is one so much of time,
occasion, manner, degree, that it is useless to continue
the discussion of it I allow that your great powers,
and the perpetual claim made upon them to discharge
the duties of other departments, naturally gave you a

264 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
greater influence in the general conduct of affairs than
possibly other ChanceUors may have had. But the
question which I do not mean to offer further is,
whether you did not press this influence somewhat
beyond its proper and natural limits. . . .
Few things have given me more concern than this
correspondence, and I am anxious to close it. I should
do so with something more like satisfaction if I could
only hope that it would not leave any bitterness or
acrimony behind it.
Soon afterwards the battle began in the House of Commons.
You will hear by the post that brings this that
Lord Mel- -, .
bourne to the amendment was carried this morning by a
Lord Grey. . . „ , ._ . O J
South maiority of seven. ^ It is understood that the
street, t,j- • -n
Pebruary Miuistry wiU uot rcsigu upou it, aiid this deter
mination gives us a day or two's breathing-time,
but more cannot be counted upon. Nobody can point
out, even to his own satisfaction, what is to be done ; but
it appears to me that the difficulty begins to be personally
felt, and it is to be hoped, therefore, that a disposition
may prevail to concur in such measures as are best cab
culated to meet it, and which, of course, might be devised
if there prevailed anything like a spirit of concession,
moderation, and true patriotism. I do not deny that
the measures about which we are contending, or rather
about which we are not contending, are of great im
portance, but they are not of sufficient importance to
justify the hazarding anything like a public convulsion
for them. Howick made a most exceUent and judicious
speech. I have seen no one this morning, so I speak
only from my own impression upon reading the report,
^ An amendment to the Address, regretting that the progress of
reforms had been interrupted by the dissolution of Parliament. It was
a Pyrrhic victory.

IN OPPOSITION 205
but I confidently expect to find all the world concurring
with me in the opinion. Adieu.
During the following weeks Lord Melbourne was probably
too busy to write much, and his papers contain no mention of
the Appropriation resolution, upon which the Government was
overthrown. The long struggle came to an end when Peel
resigned on April 8.

266 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE IX
HOME AFFAIRS
1835-1837
On the day after the resignation of Sir Robert Peel Lord
Grey was summoned by the King to give advice on the state of
affairs. He recommended Lord Melbourne and Lord Lansdowne,
who were desired to attend the next day. They found the King
once more hankering after a coalition, but at once refused to be
parties to such an arrangement. On the 11th Lord Melbourne
was summoned alone, and desired to undertake the formation of
a government. His first difficulties were with his old colleagues.'
Mr. Spring Rice refused to be member of a Cabinet which
included any members of the Radical party ; Lord Grey declined
the Foreign Office, though it was pressed upon him by Lords
Melbourne, Lansdowne, Holland, and Palmerston, and Mr.
Spring Rice.
Lord Mel- TiiE eiiclosed letter, addressed to you, was
Lord^Grey. ^grccd upoii y^cstcrday morning at Lord Lans-
siieet downe's. Before I sent it to you I sent a copy
f^^^'^^' to the King, through Sir Herbert Taylor, and
TWOA.M. J j^Q^ enclose his Majesty's reply, which I find
here upon my return.^ I have only to add that it will
give me great satisfaction if these communications should
1 By far the best account of the formation of Lord Melbourne's
second Ministry is to be found in the interesting extracts from Lord
Broughton's (Sir J. Hobhouse's) BecoUections of a Long Life, published
in the Edinburgh Beview, vol. 133.
^ The King's reply is given by Mr. Torrens (ii. 103). It expresses h'S
wish to see the Earl at the head of the Government.

HOME AFFAIRS 267
lead to any arrangement which wiU secure the benefit
of your services to the public, and that to the comple
tion of such arrangement I should be most anxious to
give any assistance in my power.
Lansdowne Having wcU considcred the state of parties and
April n, the circumstances of the country, we are de-
1835. cidedly of opinion that no administration which
wiU command public confidence or give any promise of
stability can be formed without uniting every element
of strength which the present state of parties and
opinions admits of combining, and most of all we think
it desirable that you should be induced to give your
active support and assistance in office. We submit to
you this as our deliberate judgment, and earnestly
entreat you to give it your most serious consideration.
It would naturally be our wish that you should place
5'ourself at the head of the Treasury, but if you should
for any reason be desirous of declining that situation, we
trust that you wiU not refuse to fiU the post of Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs, which will ensure to the
public the benefit of y^our abilities and experience, and
to your colleagues the protection and encouragement of
y^our countenance and authority. Lord John Eussell
has not been informed of our intention to make this
communication, but we feel no doubt of his entire con
currence in it. We have not thought it expedient to
incur any delay by inviting the agreement of others,
but we are confident that it would be cordially and
universally given. Melbourne. Palmerston.
Lansdowne. Spring Eice.
Vassall Holland.
Lord Grey's reply is unfortunately not forthcoming.

268 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I HAVE just received your letter. Being con-
bourne to viucod that the course pointed out in the letter
South ''^^' agreed upon at Lansdowne House is the only
April 12, one which affords a chance of a solution, in any
respect satisfactory, of the present political
difficulties, I necessarily learn the determination to which
you have come with great sorrow and concern ; at the
same time I learn it without surprise. I feel the force
of the reasons upon which it is founded, and your having
acted upon them cannot, in my opinion, justly expose
you to the slightest censure or animadversion. I shall
without delay transmit your letter to -his Majesty, who
will derive satisfaction at least from that part of it which
conveys the assurance that you wiU be ready, out of
office, to assist by your advice and by your best efforts
the formation of a new government.
I HAVE iust seen Palmerston, and have had a
The same ..,,., ,
to the full and plain conversation with him, the result
soutii of which is that, unless he is to be replaced in
Aprd u, the Foreign Office, he had rather not engage in
the administration at all. This he states dis
tinctly, unequivocally, unalterably. The question, then,
is between leaving him out altogether and giving him
the foreign department. I am not insensible to the
inconveniences of the latter alternative, but his being
totally omitted from the arrangement would be in the
eyes of the public a strong condemnation both of him
and of the policy which he had pursued, and would be
taken as no slight indication that the latter was intended
to be changed. Let me know your opinion.
The same I HAD a couvcrsation of three hours with
same. Brougham last night. He w:as at times vehe-

HOME AFFAIRS 269
South ment, but not more so than was to be expected
Aprn\4, ^^om a person of his character in his situation.
1835. r£Y^Q general result is that his feelings would be
much soothed if the seals were put into Commission,
whilst they would be greatly exasperated if a new.
Chancellor, and particularly if Campbell, were appointed.^
^The two letters which I have received from the
Master of the EoUs,^ and which I enclose, seem to smooth
the principal difficulties which lie in the way of a
Commission, and I know from certain authority that
Lyndhurst is entirely of the same opinion. These reasons
appear to me so preponderating in favour of a Commis
sion that I entertain no doubt that it is the best course
to be adopted.
Eeturn me the Master of the EoUs' letters.
Meanwhile the King had started a number of objections,
which were only removed by the exercise of great firmness and
tact on the part of Lord Melbourne.
Viscount Melbourne presents his humble duty
bourne to to your Majcsty^, and at the outset of the arduous
South'"^' task which it has pleased your Majesty gra-
Aprii 13, ciously to confide to his hands, submits respect-
fuUy the foUowing observations, which appear
not only important but absolutely necessary to be
made. Upon looking back to the whole intercourse which
' According to Lord Campbell {Chancellors, vol. in. 467), Brougham
was persuaded to regard his exclusion from otiice as being due to the
royal resentment. But it is difficult to reconcile this statement with
Lord Melbourne's very outspoken letters in the previous chapter. Nor
does Greville's account of the interview convey the impression that Lord
Melbourne resorted to subterfuges. The Commissioners were Pepys,
Vice-ChanceUor Shadwell, and Bosanquet.
" Pepys. Lord Lyndhurst, however, when consulted, declined to give
an opinion.

270 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Viscount Melbourne has had the honour of holding with
y^our Majesty, and to the series of affairs in wliich
he has been engaged under your Majesty's direction,
Viscount Melbourne greatly congratulates himself that
there has never existed on either side the slightest mis
conception or misapprehension, nor has there ever
arisen any question which tended to create any doubtful
or uneasy feeling, or to afford any ground of subsequent
complaint ; and Viscount Melbourne believes this happy
result to have arisen from the clear and distinct manner
with which the views and expectations entertained on
each side have been laid down at the commencement of
transactions, and to the scrupulous fidelity with which
those engagements so laid down have been invariably
adhered to and observed.
Viscount Melbourne is naturally still more desirous
of pursuing the same course upon the present mo
mentous occasion, and he therefore feels it necessary,
before he proceeds further in the task of constructing
a Ministry, and particularly before he induces others
actuaUy to undertake to engage in his Majesty's service,
that some points of vital importance should be precisely
understood. Viscount Melbourne would subject himself to great
and just reproach if, after the arrangements had pro
ceeded to some length, there should be found to arise
serious, perhaps insuperable, difficulties, which might
easily have been foreseen and ought to have been
prevented. At aU times and in all circumstances it is necessary
for the conduct of public affairs under our constitution
that the Ministry should possess, and be known and
felt to possess, the full confidence of the Crown, the
advantage of all the influence which it can command,

HOME AFFAIRS 271
and the due exercise of aU the powers with which it is
invested. This assistance is absolutely indispensable in
the present times, when the authority of the Crown and
the existence of the Government are to be maintained
against powerful assailants and violent opposition.
Viscount Melbourne therefore trusts that, if he should
be enabled to present to your Majesty such a distribu
tion and arrangement of a Ministry as may^ meet with
your Majestyr's approbation, that your Majesty will not
withhold from Viscount Melbourne those marks and
proofs of your Majesty's favour, confidence, and support,
without which there will be little hope or chance of
conducting your Majesty's government either with
honour or advantage.
Amongst these marks of confidence. Viscount Mel
bourne places the appointment of the officers of your
Majesty's household, with respect to whom Viscount
Melbourne trusts that your Majesty will be graciously
pleased to listen to his recommendation, in the same
manner and to the same extent as your Majesty did to
that of Earl Grey, and also of Viscount Melbourne
during the short time that he had the honour of serving
your Majesty as First Commissioner of the Treasury.
With respect to your Majesty's household, Viscount
Melbourne would be anxious not to interfere with its
present constitution, provided those who compose it,
and who have seats in either House of Parliament, are
prepared to give your Majesty's servants a firm, un
equivocal support ; but Viscount Melbourne trusts that,
upon the occasions of future vacancies, those members
of either Lords or Commons will not be selected whose
principles and opinions are adverse to your Majesty's
Government. Viscount Melbourne also thinks it his duty not to

272 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
conceal from your Majesty that, in case a Ministry
should be formed, it will be absolutely necessary, both
for the fulfilment of former intentions as well as for the
purpose of obtaining present support and producing
upon the public mind a favourable impression of the good
understanding which subsists between the sovereign and
his servants, that the accession of the Ministry to ofiice
should be accompanied and united by the creation of a
certain number of peers.
Your Majesty wiU not for one moment suspect that
it is Viscount Melbourne's intention that the creation
should be so numerous as to wear the appearance of an
intention to overawe and control the decisions of the
Upper House of Parliament ; but, considering that not
less than six new peers have been created during the late
administration, it appears, on this account as weU as
upon the general grounds above stated, to be reasonable
that the intention entertained by Lord Grey should be
fulfiUed, and also that some gentlemen well qualified by
property and by character should be selected by those
who wiU then be your Majesty's confidential advisers
and elevated to the peerage ; and that it should he
generaUy understood and proved that y^our Majesty
wiU not object to such an exercise of this branch of
y^our royal prerogative as your Majesty's servants may,
within the bounds of discretion and constitutional
principles, feel it proper to advise.
These are the specific points which Viscount Mel
bourne humbly ventures to present to your Majesty's
attention, and in so doing he ventures to repeat that it
is only for the purpose of avoiding any future misunder
standing, and with the anxious desire to promote your
Majesty's true interests, and to secure the stability of
your Majesty's Government.

HOME AFFAIRS 273
The same ^^^'^0^^''' Melbournk prcscuts his liumblc duty
to the to y^our Majesty, and returns to your Majesty
South his thanks for the gracious, and in many respects
April 15, satisfactory, communication which he has this
1835. . ^
morning had the honour of receiving.
Amongst many grave and weighty matters your
Majesty has introduced, one subject— namely, the ques
tion of the Protestant Established Church in Ireland —
is of such vital importance that A'iscount Melbourne
feels that it is absolutely necessary in the first instance
to come to a precise explanation and to a distinct
understanding upon it.
Viscount Melbourne is well aware of the deep
solicitude with which y^our Majesty^ has always viewed
this matter, and perfectly recoUects that in the audience
with which he was honoured on November 15 last
at Brighton this question was distinctly stated to
be a chief ground of your Majesty's objection to the
arrangement which Viscount Melbourne then suggested,
and the rejection of which produced the dissolution
of his administration. Viscount Melbourne, however,
begs to ask your Majesty's serious attention to the new
situation in which both your Majesty and those who
are called upon to advise are placed by what has re
cently been done upon this subject.
The House of Commons has passed two resolutions,
the one declaring ^
and the other that no measure for the settlement of the
tithe can be satisfactory unless it embodies in it the
principle of the foregoing resolution.
' The terms of the resolution are omitted in the draft. They were to
the effect that the surplus revenues of the Irish Church should be devoted
to the general education of aU classes of the people-the Appropriation
clause. T

274 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Upon the adoption of this second resolution by the
House of Commons, your Majesty's servants resigned
their offices into your Majesty's hands, and your Ma
jesty, in order to form a new administration, called
upon those who lia^^e proposed, supported, and carried
both the above-mentioned resolutions. It must be
manifest that those who have borne such a part in these
proceedings cannot, with any regard to their own con
sistency, or with the least hope of effectually serving
your Majesty, undertake to carry on your Majesty's
government unless it is understood that they are to
act without delay upon the principle of the resolu
tion ; that they are to carry that principle into prac
tical effect, and that in so doing they are to receive
the sanction, approbation, and support of your
Majesty. Viscount Melbourne is abundantly satisfied with
your Majesty's gracious declaration ' that, if he should
be enabled to present such a distribution and arrange
ment of such a Ministry as shall meet with your Majesty's
approbation, he will receive from your Majesty those
marks and proofs of your Majesty's favour, confidence,
and sujiport which are indispensable to conducting the
government with honour and advantage.' But with
reference to the statement and the observations upon
individuals with which this assurance is introduced,
Viscount Melbourne must distinctly declare that, whilst
he trusts he is incapable of recommending to your
Majesty any individuals whose character and conduct
appear to him to disqualify them from holding any situ
ation of trust and responsibility, he can neither admit
nor acc;[uiesce in any general or particular exclu
sions, and that he must reserve to himself the power
of recommending for employmient any one of your

HOME AFFAIRS 275
Majesty's subjects who is qualified by law to serve your
Majesty.^ With respect to your Majesty's household. Viscount
Melbourne wiU ask no more than your Majesty has
been graciously pleased to accord. With her Majesty's
household. Viscount Melbourne would regret as deeply
as your Majesty that any interference should be rendered
necessary, and Viscount Melbourne mentioned the sub
ject principally with the view of preventing the recur
rence of painful transactions to which your Majesty
has adverted, and which Viscount Melbourne earnestly
hopes may not take place again.'-^ Viscount Melbourne
is much rejoiced to find that your Majesty approves
of his having brought the question of the creation of
peerages under your Majesty's consideration. Viscount
Melbourne, in his former observations, guarded himself
against the imputation, which he now again disclaims,
of intending to introduce into the House of Lords such
a number of members as may have the appearance of
the intention to sway and govern the decisions of that
assembly. Xeither is Viscount Melbourne desirous of
pressing upon y^our Majesty any individual whom it
may be repugnant to your feelings to advance to that
honour. For each of the peerages which have been
conferred during the late administration there may have
been sound special reasons, but the general result is the
addition of six votes to those who are opposed to your
Majesty's present advisers, and who are the predominant
party in the House of Lords. If Viscount Melbourne
undertakes to conduct your Majesty's government, he
> The obnoxious individuals were Joseph Hume, O'Comiell, and, appa
rently, Sheil (see letter of October 1, 183C).
« The dismissal of Lord Howe, for voting against Lord Grey's
government.

276 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
also undertakes it in very particular and unusual circum
stances — circumstances which will render it necessary
that he should receive some decided mark of your
Majesty's confidence and of your determination to sup
port him, and he trusts, therefore, that your Majesty will
not be unwilling to confer seven or eight peerages upon
his recommendation, provided the names which are pre
sented to your Majesty for that honour shall be such as
y^our Majesty shall, upon their consideration, approve.

ViscoxTNT Melbourne presents his humble duty
to the to y^our Majesty, and loses no time in acknow-

The same

Bame.

South ledging your Majest}''s second letter, which
April 15, Viscount Melbourne received a little after nine

1835.

this evening.

Viscount Melbourne had already finished, in obedi
ence to your Majesty's commands, his reply to your
Majesty's communication of this morning, and he has
now the honour to transmit it to your Majesty ; but the
importance of your Majesty's last letter, and the con
sequences to which it may lead, reduce many of the
other topics to comparative insignificance, and Viscount
Melbourne is much rejoiced to find that your Majesty
now takes the same view as Viscount Melbourne of the
situation in which your Majesty and those who are called
upon to advise you are placed by the recent votes in
Parliament and by the proceedings which have taken
place in consequence of them. Your Majesty has re
sorted for counsel to those by whose efforts these reso
lutions were placed upon the journals of the House of
Commons, and if your Majesty appoints them your
Ministers your Majesty must take them pledged and
bound to act upon those their recorded principles.
It is true your Majesty's previous consent wiU be

HOME AFFAIRS 27/
necessary upon the introduction of the BiU, inasmuch as
its provisions wiU affect some of the benefices which are
in the gift of the Crown ; and it is also true that your
Majesty's solemn assent wiU be required to give the BiU
the force of law, after it has passed through the two
Houses of Parhament. It must be a preliminary to the
acceptance of office by any of those who have supported
or advised the resolutions that your Majesty should feel
yourself prepared to do both these acts, and also to give
to the measure in its progress your full and cordial sup
port, and Viscount Melbourne learns with great sorrow
that your Majesty entertains any doubt or scruple upon
the subject.
Viscount Melbourne submits that, as it would be a
novel course, so it would be highly inexpedient to submit
the question which y^our Majesty states to fifteen judges
for their opinion, inasmuch as it is a question, not cf
law but of conscience, and upon which the opinion of
judges is worth no more than that of other men.
The matter is of great importance and great urgency.
The scruples, if persisted in, must be fatal to any of the
projected arrangements. The House of Commons re
assembles to-morrow, and anxiety will probably prevail
to learn whether any progress has been made in the
formation of a Ministry^ more particularly if any rumoUr
should arise of the existence of diflficulty or impediment.
If any personal explanation should be desired. Viscount
Melbourne will be ready to wait upon your Majesty at
any hour that your Majesty may think proper to
appoint. On the 18th the arrangements were completed.^
1 Lord Melbourne's second Cabinet contained : —
First Lord of the Treasury, Viscount Melbourne.
Lord President of the Council, Marquess of Lansdowne.

278 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
It cannot be said that Lord Melbourne undertook the conduct
of affairs under particularly encouraging circumstances. The
majority in the House of Commons was small and fluctuating;
in the Upper House the Government were in a minority of
something like a hundred, and, with the exception of Lord
Lansdowne, the Prime Minister's colleagues gave him little
assistance, while against him were Brougham and Lyndhurst,
the Duke and Bishop Phillpotts. The hostility of the Court
to the Ministry as a whole was openly pronounced, and was
directed with especial severity against individuals. Lord Palmer
ston wrote in October 1835 that the King of the Belgians had
told him that William IV. liked Lord Minto and himself, 'but
as to the others— John Russell and Hobhouse, for instance — he
did not pay them compliments.' At the same time it is only
just to point out that the King's opposition to the Ministerial
programme was perfectly constitutional and entirely above-
board. Lord Mel- ^ HAVE tliis iiiorning received y^our letter of
Lor™Mu°- 25th inst., which I have read with much satis-
lou\h faction, not only because I cordiaUy approve
May^'as *^f ^^^ opinions and feelings which it expresses,
1835. p,-^(. "because it rather proves to me that the
tone which I have taken in the House of Lords upon
Lord Privy Seal, Viscount Duncannon.
Eirst Lord of the Admiralty, Lord Auckland.
Foreign Secretary, Viscoimt Palmerston.
Home Secretary, Lord John Russell.
Colonial Secretary, Lord Glenelg (Mr. C. Grant).
President of the Board of Control, Sir J. Hobhouse.
President of the Board of Trade, Mr. Poulett Thomson.
Secretary for "\^'ar. Viscount Howick.
Chancellor of the Excheq^uer, Mr. Spring Rice.
Lord Mulgrave was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland ; Lord Morpeth, Chief
Secretary ; Lord Plunket, Lord Chancellor of Ireland ; Sir John Camp
bell and Sir R. Rolfe, Attorney- and Solicitor-General of England. The
Ministry was composed for the most part out of old materials — ' Damn
the Whigs ! they're all cousins,' Lord Melbourne is said to have exclaimed
on this or some other occasion — but several young men of ability were
employed in subordinate posts, Mr. Laboiichere, Lord Morpeth, and Sir
George Grey for instance.

HOME AFFAIRS 279
the question of your entry into Dublin, which some
here have thought too low, was upon the whole the
most prudent.i I might have said that nothing had
been done that was iUegal, and that was not natural and
even laudable ; but this would have given great offence,
and would have encouraged similar displays hereafter
in Ireland, which I certainly do not think desirable.
With respect to Mr. Tierney, I only mentioned his
name, and he is already solicitor on one of the circuits ;
and when I mention any name, pray remember that I
never mean to press for any preference which is not
perfectly just and expedient. I am anxious for O'Gor-
nian on account of his connection with my brother, and
I am much obliged to you for what you have done for
diim. I was also anxious for Curran, because I know
and have a high opinion of him.'^ After these I have
no strong jiersonal feelings that I know of.
We had y^esterday Perrin's ^ opinion upon military
assistance in case of tithe before the Cabinet. It is
a very difficult one. You will receive a letter from
J. Eussell upon it, in which we all concur. Perrin's
opinion is very loose, and, as you will find all Irish
opinions, a great mixture of law and of general political
reasoning. If a subject is about to enforce a legal
claim and apprehends a breach of the peace, or in the
act of enforcing it is interrupted by violence, it does not
• The banners borne at the Viceregal entry bore devices in favour of
Repeal and the extinction of tithes, and gave great offence to the Pro-
testunts of Ireland. The King also took umbrage at the green yeomanry
uniform worn by Lord Mulgrave on the occasion.
^ Tierney and Curran were both sons of parents more famous than
themselves. Curran wrote Sketches of the Irish Bar, and a Life of his
fatlier. 3 The new Attorney-General for Ireland. The appointment gave great
satisfaction to O'ConneU, who with his supporters thereupon took his seat
on the Ministerial side of the House.

280 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
appear to me that the government performs -its duty if
it refuses him effectual protection and assistance. You
must lay down and act upon the contrary principle.
The government which advises persons not to en
force their legal claims proclaims its own weakness,
and lays itself open to a scornful refusal to attend to its
recommendation. The only course open is to discourage
applications, to examine carefuUy the cases in which
assistance is demanded, and to guard by all the means
in your power against the abuses adverted to by the
Attorneys-General, and to note the occurrence of them
with great severity^ when they do take place.
There is one matter which strikes me whilst I am
writing, and which I therefore suggest. Whenever it
is possible I would have the troops accompanied by a
stipendiary magistrate, who is impartial and wiU see the
law observed. Lord Wellesley required that a magis
trate should always attend ; but I am informed that no
magistrate can ever be induced to go upon such a
service unless he be interested in the coUection from
connection with the parson or some other reason. Now
the object of such a man will be only to get money, and
that by any means, without reference either to law or to
practice. I know that the paucity of stipendiary magis
trates renders it impossible to do this in all cases, but
wherever I could do it I would.

The same

Cannot you manage to speak to the Eoman
¦jLjQe same (_ j.
to the Catholic bishops, and tell them how many
same. . pi • i 1. +1
Downing encmies the conduct of the priests makes both
July 1, to us and to them, to their cause and to their
religion. When I perceive anybody lukewarm
with us or eager against us, if I ask the cause I always
get foi' answer that it is on account of the manner iu

HOME AFFAIRS 281
which he has been harassed and vexed by the Eoman
Catholic clergy in his neighbourhood.
Among Lord Melbourne's correspondents at this time was
Haydon, the artist.'
B. E. Hay. ^ HAVE uict witli the most glorious success !
Lord*°Mei- The last lecture at Newcastle was hailed with
bourne. checrs and acclamations. I then went to Hull,
Mdiicli ended in the same wa}-, their enthusiasm swell
ing out into a thunder of" applause. At JSTewcastle a
school of design was founded, and I beean one at Hull.
I am now here, and my reception as usual.
Be assured the people are alive to sound art, and
only want instruction. My three first lectures are en
tirely on the construction of the figure, and yet listened
to with an attention that the Greeks could not exceed.
I write y^ou this that you might know what is going
on in all the great towns, for I have engagements
directly after Christmas again, and wherever I have
been once I go twice.
Be careful what you say^ at the Academy dinner, at
that interestino' entertainment founded to reflect honour
on the Art, but made a tool of to get business for the
monopoly. The people know what is what, as well as the
women. The great legislative Act of the session was that for the
Reform of Municipal Corporations, which became law after Lord
Lyndhurst had done his worst, thanks, in part, to the moderation
of Sir Robert Peel. At the outset the King objected in toto
to the Bill, wishing to proceed rather by granting new charters
than by Act of Parliament, and objecting particularly to the
repeal of the old charters and the lowness of the proposed
municipal franchise.
' In whose Autobiography there are numerous notices of Lord
Melbourne.

282 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Viscount Melbourne presents his humble dutv
Lord Mel- / . •'
bourne to to your Majcsty, and having submitted, as from
South himself and without employing y^our Majesty's
June 2, name, the substance of your Majesty's communi
cations upon the Bill for regulating Municipal
Corporations to the Attorney-General, begs leave to
transmit to your Majesty the letter of the learned gentle
man upon the subject. The reasons urged appear to
Viscount Melbourne to be satisfactory and conclusive,
but many other arguments of a more general and more
pressing nature might be added. Viscount Melbourne
will take care that y^our Majesty's remarks upon the
details of the Bill are subjected to close and accurate
examination by those who best understand the subject.
The result shall, as soon as possible, be forwarded to
your Majesty.
Your Majesty will do Viscount Melbourne the honour
to recoUect that in aU the conversations with which jour
Majesty honoured Viscount Melbourne in July 1834,
and in aU the correspondence which passed upon that
as weU as upon subsequent occasions, the necessity of a
decisive and effectual measure upon this subject was
always declared by Viscount Melbourne to be absolute
and unavoidable. Viscount Melbourne, like ah other
jiublic men, has more than once acquiesced in propo
sitions with res^aect to which he himself entertained
doubts, in compliance with the opinions of others, the
circumstances of the times.- and the general feehng of
the public ; but with respect to the corporations it has
always been his own strong and sincere opinion that a
thorough reformation of them was required, if it was
intended to prevent abuse and corruption and to restore
unanimity and concord in those great communities
which have grown up within the bosom cf the empire.

home AFFAIRS 283
The Kin "^^^^ K^i^g) coucciving that it may be satisfac-
to Lord tory to Viscount Melbourne to receive a written
Melbourne. Windsor acknowledgment of his letter of this da^^, en-
Castle, , ^ •' '
June 2, closing that from the Attorneys-General on the
subject of the BiU for regulating Municipal
Corporations, will not defer returning that letter until
he sees him to-morrow.
His Majesty has read it with attention, and admits
the Attorney-General to have treated the question most
ably, and to have offered nianj^ reasons and arguments
which are calculated to remove some of the objections
which had occurred to his Majestj". It is also, above
all, due to Viscount Melbourne to say that the King
has always felt so convinced of his firm attachment to
the monarchical constitution of this country, and cf his
disinclination to yield to any attempt which the spirit
of the times or the leaning to popular opinions and
principles by which others ma}' be influenced may sug
gest or produce, that the uneasiness which many events
and circumstances had raised and were of a character
to keep alive was in a great measure removed by the
assurances conveyed in Viscount Melbourne's communi
cation, and by the confidence his Majesty reposes in his
determination to resist the encroachments which othei's
may lie disposed to encourage. These assurances have
therefore made a stronger impression upon his Majesty's
mind than the arguments used by the Attorney-General.
He has indeed misapprehended one of the King's ob
jections, as he seems to have understood it to applj- to
the election by burgesses being rated householders in
heu of election by lOZ. householders, whereas his
Majesty's objection was stated to be to the extensive
and frequent recurrence of popular elections, producing,
in his apprehension, as much local excitement as the

284 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
election of members to serve in Parliament ; and he can
not admit this apprehension to be lessened by the remark
of Sir John CampbeU, that in a large proportion of
places the Parliamentary franchise of 10^. householders
would not have afforded nearly a sufficient number of
electors for municipal purposes. His Majesty^, however,
most entirely concurs in the opinion held by him that
for the election of members of Parhament the 10/.
franchise is quite low enough, and he sincerely wishes
it were higher.
The King was aware that the prerogative of grant
ing municipal charters had been very sparingly or im
perfectly exercised since the commencement of the
reign of George I. ; and he cannot help feeling that the
assumption of power by self-elected bodies in corpora
tions, which the Attorney-General describes as an
usurpation upon the prerogative of the Crown as weU as
upon the rights of the people, may be traced to the
neglect and carelessness of those whose duty it was to
have protected both. But although his Majesty trusts
that he shall never render himself liable to the imputa
tion of a disposition to encroach upon the rights of the
people, he must feel that his duty equally prescribes to
him that course which shall secure the rights of the
Crown against popular encroachment ; and he may with-
truth declare that he has never felt any desire to assert
or to claim rights other than those wliich the free con
stitution of this country confers upon its sovereign.
The Lords rejected the Appropriation clauses of the Irisli
Tithe Bill, and the measure was in consequence lost. At the
outset the followiug correspondence took place with the King: —
str™t™^ Viscount Melbourne presents his humble duty
18™ "' ^o yo^^ Majesty, and humbly submits the heads

HOME AFFAIRS 285
of the proposed BiU for settling the Tithe question,
and also for carrying into effect the resolution of the
House of Commons as approved by your Majesty's con
fidential servants. Viscount Melbourne also submits
the copy of a communication received from Lord Dun
cannon in October last, and also an autograph letter
from the same noble lord, which contains some obser
vations on the subject. Viscount Melbourne is sensible
that, according to Lord Duncannon's observations, much
explanation ma}' still be required, and your Majesty
will readily believe Viscount Melbourne when he states
that many difficulties have been found to stand in the
way of a satisfactory and reasonable arrangement.
Those difficulties arise mainly from the circumstances
in which Ireland is placed ; from one mode of faith
being established by law, and another professed by the
large body of the peojale. Theirs is a state of things
neither intended nor contemplated by any of those who
since the conquest of Ireland have directed the affairs
of that country ; a state of things, as far as Viscount
Melbourne's knowledge and experience extends, un
known and unprecedented in any period of history or
any quarter of the globe — a state of things contrary to
reason and to common sense.
It is no answer upon this subject to say that, though
the population is Eoman Cathohc, the property is
possessed by Protestants. Eehgious establishment is
eminently for population, not for property. Its exist
ence is for the benefit of the poor and the needy, not of
the opulent, who have the means of providing spiritual
instruction for themselves, according to their own
opinions and modes of faith.
Viscount Melbourne was himself anxious that this
question should not be brought forward at the time or

28G LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
ill the manner in which it has been. But your Majesty
must feel the extreme difficulty that there was in pre
venting its introduction into Parliament. When it was

o

brought forward Viscount Melbourne could do no other
than act according to his conscientious opinion upon
the subject.
Your Majesty is well aware of the resolution adopted
by the House of Commons in the earlier part of the
session upon the motion of Lord John EusseU. Your
Majesty's servants are pledged to carry that resolution
into effect, and this is the Bill which they advise should
be presented to Parliament in order to redeem that
pledge. Viscount Melbourne does not know what may
be the effect of the new measures which it is proposed
to introduce, but Viscount Melbourne feels certain that
the present sy^stem of Irish cures, of clergymen without
flocks, does not and cannot promote the growth of Pro
testantism in that country. With respect to that part
of the measure which relates to the payment of tithe,
Viscount Melbourne only remarks that it is founded
upon the BiU which was last year rejected by the House
of Lords, and also upon the Bill which was , introduced
in the present session by Sir Henry Hardinge.-'-
Windsor • • ¦ His Majesty is quite sensible of the diffi-
castie culties wliich have been found to stand in the
June 18,
1885. -^r^j Qf ^ satisfactory and reasonable arrange
ment, and he admits the correctness of Viscount Mel
bourne's reasoning with respect to many points connected
with the situation of Ireland, to which these difficulties
may be in a great way traced ; while he laments that,
from the reign of Elizabeth to the j)resent period, the
' Sir Henry Hardinge, afterwards Viceroy of India and Viscoimt
Hardinge, had been Irish Secretary in Sir Robert Peel's Ministry.

HOME AFFAIRS 287
system of government pursued in Ireland by those who
have directed the affiiirs of that country has not been
more uniformly and more successfally appUed to the
correction of evils and the improvement of the state of
things which, although it may not have been originaUy
contemplated, has been in progress under successive
rules and administrations.
With respect to the question immediately at issue, it
is not the King's wish or intention to engage in any
discussion in which his private feelings and opinions
might appear to be at variance with the course which
his public duty and the circumstances under which he
is placed have prescribed to him ; and from the same
reason his Majesty abstains from entering into any par
ticulars of the proposed Bill, to which his solemn assent
will be required to give the force of law after it shall
have passed through the two Houses of Parliament.
His Majesty, however, cannot refrain from stating
liis concurrence with the wish expressed by Viscount
Melbourne that the question had not been brought for
ward at the time or in the manner in which it has been
brought forward, and from applying his own feeling to
the subject, more particularly to the resolution intro
duced in the earlier part of the present session, upon
the motion of Lord John Eussell, before the Eeport of
the Commission had been received, to which reference
is made in the second page of the heads of the Bill, and
which Eeport his Majesty has not yet seen, in the gross
or in the abstract. But his Majesty is well aware that
his present servants are pledged to carry these resolu
tions into effect, and he has stated in a communica
tion to Viscount Melbourne, dated April 16 last, that,
having admitted them to his councils as the advocates
of the principle of those resolutions, he is bound to

288 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
afford to them his sanction and support in their endea
vours to carry them into practical effect.
The Ballot cropped up in this session ; and then came the
difficulty, caused by certain members being pledged to support
a measure which the Government, as a whole, was determined to
oppose.Lord Mel- ^ ^OPE you wiU bc carcful of what you say
Mr'Ipouiett ^pon tlic Ballot to-morrow. A little more pre-
Downfng' j^dicc agalust us would go near to unship us.
jun^e*i Cannot you put your vote solely upon the pre-
1885. ggj-^j^ l;ij-i^g being inopportune, and the motion
improper, without saying anything about the future ?
Meantime a deputation from the General Assembly of the
Scottish Church had waited upon the Prime Minister and asked
for an endowment for the churches recently added to the estab
lishment. Perplexed by the violent outcry of the Central Board
of Scottish Dissenters, the Government attempted to shelve the
difficulty by appointing a Royal Commission. Whereupon a cor
respondence arose with Dr. Chalmers.'
I BEG leave to acknowledge your letter of the
Melbourne 14th iiistaut, wliich I recclved yesterday.
Chalmers. ISTo iiistructioiis havo yet been given to the
tial. South Commissioners of Church Inquiry in Scotland,
August 18, nor is it at present intended to give any. It is
conceived that the Commission itself sufficiently
defines the duties which they have to perform.
It is with great concern that I learn the dissatisfac
tion felt in Scotland at the institution of the Commission,
but it is without surprise. I think I told you, when I
had the pleasure of seeing you in Downing Street, that
I looked with anxiety to the composition of that Com-
' Dr. Chalmers's letters, dated August 28, September 8, and September
15, are to bo found in Hanna's Life of Chalmers (2nd edition), pp.
367-377.

HOME AFFAIRS 289
mission, and that I felt that it would be difficult, if not
impossible, to form it in such a manner as would com
mand general confidence.
Both parties, from the experience and observation I
have had of them, are too heated and eager, too positive
in their respective opinions, and too sanguine in their
expectations to secure any chance of such a result.
The one party looks to nothing less than a general
change in the state of human nature and human society
by means of increased pastoral exertion ; and the other
is dreaming upon the pure and prosperous state of the
Christian Church in the first centuries, and the evil and
deeradation which it has incurred ever since the un-
fortunate conversion of the Emperor Constantino. You
will excuse the plainness of my phrase, but to persons
so influenced by heat and enthusiasm, to use no stronger
terms, it is vain to expect that any arrangement can be
satisfactory. . . .
It gives me great concern to find that you con-
to the™^ sider the statement reported to have been made
soutt. by me in the House of Lords to have been un-
s^tember just to you and the other members of the de-
^'"^^' .putation from the Church of Scotland whom
I had the satisfaction of seeing in Downing Street. I
cannot recollect the precise terms which I used, and,
therefore, I cannot say whether the report is accurate
or otherwise ; but I know what I intended to express,
and I can affirm that nothing was further from that in
tention than to charge any of the deputations who came
to me with any improper violence of language or of
feehng, and stiu less with any manifestation of un
christian bitterness towards each other. What I in
tended to say was, that I found the one party declaring u

i'OO LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
it to be a religious duty to extend religious establish
ments, and to increase emolument ; the other maintain
ing that we were equally bound by all the most sacred
considerations, not only to refrain from any such assist
ance or augmentation, but to take any safe and practi
cable step for the speediest possible abolition of both.
These extreme opinions appeared to me to have so firm
tenacious, and deep-rooted a hold on the mind of each
party that, as it was impossible to reconcile them, so it
seemed to me to be hojDeless that any step could be
taken in ecclesiastical affairs which could be satisfactory
to both, or indeed to either of them. This explanation
may not exonerate me from the charge of error, but I
trust that it will be sufficient to relieve me in your mind
from the imputation of having made a false or injurious
representation of the conduct of the deputations.
I am not capable of entering with y^ou into the dis
cussion of the best means of extending and propagating
the influence of Christianity. Suffice it to say, that I do
not acquiesce in the conclusions to which you attempt
to force me, and that if my premisses do necessarily lead
to them — of which I am not convinced — I shall be the
first to abandon and surrender them.
I should be wanting in fairness, however, if I did
not state, that to stir and agitate the question of an
additional grant to the Church of Scotland at this period
I consider to have been a great imprudence and indis
cretion in those who must have been well acquainted
with the state of religious feeling and religious opinion
in that country.
The Commissioners will so discharge their duty as to
relieve themseh'es from an}' such charge, and the minis-
tei-s of the Church from any alarm and jealousy in that
respect.

HOME AFFAIRS 291
On the whole the reports, as far as England and Scotland
are concerned, were prosperous enough. The following letter is
from the Speaker, Mr. Aberoromby: —
We are so far on our way to Scotland, and I
Confiden- i -, ¦ ¦, -,
tial. had not intended to write to you until I had
October '9, ascertained the real extent of O'ConneU's im-
1835. . 1 i -,
pression upon my countr}'men.^ A paragraph,
with which I shall conclude, will show you why I write
now. From all I have heard the state of the country is
prosperous, and the tone and temper of the people sound
and sober. The improvement in the intellectual state
of the mechanics of Sheffield quite astonished me the
other day when I was there with Labouchere. Their
advance in knowledge, reflection, and in the enjoyment
of the comforts of life quite surprises me. Wliat would
happen if trade failed God knows ; but people are
always very impatient under the loss of comforts such
as they now enjoy. Everywhere I find that the House
of Lords is a general topic of discussion. Their present
safety consists in the absence of any practicable ^ilan
capable of being carried out without a violent struggle.
In the event they will faU or undergo a great change,
but the fear of violence may protract their existence if
they wiU submit to act in accordance with the opinions
of the House of Commons. But independently of the
feeling of personal dislike which exists in many of those
who are their superiors, and which superiors have not
used their knowledge with judgment in the private re
lations of hfe, it does appear to be hopeless that any
body of men should recover from the state of contempt
into which they have faUen. They may try to save
1 During the autumn O'Connell conducted a singularly ineffective
campaign a^gainst the House of Lords in the North of England and
Scotland. V 2

292 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
themselves by abolishing proxies. They wiU do no
good ; for in any case the Tory lords would be the
majority, and if they act as they have done they would
stiU oppose the House of Commons and the people.
The change would, therefore, only have the effect of fix
ing the opinion that they were incurable without a great
change. There is nothing left for them but to submit,
and wait events. If they do not follow this course, I
incline to think that a struggle of some sort on that
question would become inevitable.
The Court of Chancery is a very great dif&culty.
From all I have heard I am impressed with a conviction
that allowing matters to rest as they are wiU produce a
state of things highly injurious to the reputation of your
Government. If you were to quit office with that ques
tion unsettled, and a great arrear in the Court of Equity,
which I fear would be the case, it would tell seriously
against you. I am also of opinion that it must be a
great disadvantage to any government not to have a
lawyer in the Cabinet, and to be obliged to depend on
those who do not belong to it. Again, in the disposal
of legal patronage, a Chancellor ought to be the safest
adviser. . . . How all this is to be adjusted is beyond
my skill to suggest, but it is a most pressing and most
important and urgent question, in all views, both public
and as regards one great person. Brougham's position
seems to be somewhat changed by O'Connell leading an
agitation not in Ireland but in Great Britain. Looking
at what he has lately done, I recur to what I was told
by one of the intelligent among the popular members,
who said that O'Connell, from his influence with the
people, would do more than anyone else to renew violent
reforms. I doubted this at the time ; what has since
passed looks as if it was true.

HOME AFFAIRS 293
Meanwhile the administration of Irish affairs under the con
duct of Lord Mulgrave and Lord Morpeth, and especially of the
Under-Secretary, Thomas Drummond, was proving a brilliant
success, though its benefits were not much appreciated at the
time. Lord Mel- ^HE nowspapcrs, as you wiU see, have made
Lor™Mui- "^ost violent attacks upon the subject of
Molt con- yo^i' inviting and receiving O'Connell. Very
ItS-''''' ^^^ persons have mentioned it to me, but from
October 16 ^^^ ^^'^^ °^ tliosc who liavo I cauiiot doubt of
1885. j^^g liaving made a deep impression, and of its
furnishing a popular topic of invective against us. This
does not change my opinion of the propriety of the step,
but it is worth while to consider what is the real cause
of this intensity of feeling upon a matter comparatively
so trifling. I cannot doubt that it arises priucipaUy, if
not entirel}', from the low scurrihty of his speeches,
which offends the friends of those against whom it is
directed, and which, more than offending, gives universal
disgust and sickness.^ It produces a general conviction
that he is an irreclaimable blackguard, and that it is
unfit for any gentleman to associate with him. It
hinders one from saying a single word in his defence.
I cannot myself perceive how it can be necessary or ex
pected from him to assume this tone ; I cannot see that
it forwards any object, or that his speeches would be in
any degree weakened by the omission of this vile
coarseness. I know how difficult and dangerous it is
to convey any intimation to him, but could it not be
represented to him through any friend how much he,
in this manner, degrades himself, and how much by
1 Also because he would not fight. Lord Alvanley's duel with Morgan
O'ConneU, who fought in his father's stead, took plac3 shortly after the
formation of the Government.

291 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
degrading himself he injures those whom he is anxious
to support ? The noise and clamour about his dining
with you arises principaUy from his having caUed the
Duke of Cumberland a liar, Wicklow a coxcomb, and
Westmeath something else, in the morning. Now, popu
lar measures must have the effect of increasing the
power of the majority of the people of Ireland, that
majority is Eoman Catholic, of the Eoman Cathohc
body O'ConneU is the leader. In that situation it is
his duty not to render himself unnecessarily odious and
detestable. If he does he will bring everybody to be
of the opinion of the House of Lords, that a measure is
to be rejected at once merely because he is for it. I
think his great acuteness must perceive how much he
stands in the way of his own success. He may have
reasons for such conduct, but I cannot conjecture what
they possibly can be. I wish to put you in possession
of what I am certain is the general feeling upon this
subject, and to give you a hint, upon which you wiU
act with the utmost caution and circumspection, at any
i-ate, and upon which you must not act at all if you
entertain the least doubt of the prudence of doing so.
. . . Viscount Melbourne feels certain that the
Lord Mel
bourne to Lord Lieutenant of Ireland entertains no inten-
the Xing.
October 19, tlou of advauclug Mr. 0 ConneU to the dignity
1835. . ^ . o •!
of a Erivy Councillor.
Viscount Melbourne greatly rejoices that your
Majesty has mentioned the circumstance of Mr. O'Connell
having been invited to the Viceregal Lodge, upon which
so much comment has been made by the public journals
opposed to your Majesty's present Government, inas
much as it affords Viscount Melbourne an opportunity
of exonerating the Lord Lieutenant from the burthen of

HOME AFFAIRS 295
the blame, if blame be justly due to the course which he
has pursued.
Upon the termination of the session of Parliament,
the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, being at a distance and
perceiving the very effectual support which your
Majesty's Government had received from Mr. O'Connell
in the House of Commons, very naturally wrote a confi
dential letter to Viscount Melbourne to enquire what
was to be the conduct of the Irish government towards
that individual upon his arrival in Ireland. To tliis
letter Viscount Melbourne immediately^ rejilied that there
was to be no approach towards him whateT,'er, no corre
spondence with him, no communication of a political
character. The Lord Lieutenant then desired to be in
formed what he should do with respect to the ordinary
intercourse of life, stating that it had been his rule and
practice, since he had been in Ireland, to invite to his
table every member of Parliament who passed through
Dublin, whatever had been their political opinions, and
whatever had been their public conduct. Viscount
Melbourne at once and unhesitatingly replied that it
was better, in his opinion, not to make Mr. O'ConneU an
exception from the general rule which had been laid
down. Your Majesty will therefore perceive that,
whether the step were culpable or not, the Lord Lieu
tenant of Ireland did not take it without a full sense of
its importance, without previously consulting Viscount
Melbourne upon the subject, and without receiving
Viscount Melbourne's sanction and approbation. Your
Majesty will also perceive that this is not a marked
attention paid to Mr. O'ConneU, inasmuch as he receives
it in common with all other members of Parliament.
There are few things more inconvenient and em
barrassing in pubhc affairs than the inferences which

296 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
are drawn, and the impressions which are made, by the
manner in which persons in high stations, as that of the
Viceroyalty of Ireland, compose their society, either
usually or upon greater occasions. There are but three
courses which they can pursue. They may confine
themselves entirely to the members of their own familv,
as many sovereigns have done, and as may be considered,
upon the whole, by far the most prudent and safe. But
this is evidently impracticable for a Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland. They may invite only those who concur
with them in political opinions — which in the present
circumstances of Ireland would be highly impolitic ; or
they may extend their attentions indiscriminately to all
persons of eminence and distinction. The latter prin
ciple has been adopted, and, in Viscount Melbourne's
opinion, wisely adopted, by the Lord Lieutenant of Ire
land ; but it must be applied generally' and without distinc
tion ; and Viscount Melbourne feels confident that your
Majesty must feel that, unless Lord Midgrave intended
to sacrifice his own influence with the majority of the
people of Ireland, and to injure instead of promoting
your Majesty's service, he never could admit to his table
the bitterest opponents of your Majesty's Government
while he excluded its most powerful supporters.
Viscount Melbourne laments and condemns many of
the opinions and much of the language of Mr. O'ConneU
as much as }'our Majesty could do. Viscount Melbourne
does not wish to bring under your Majesty's notice irri
tating matters of this description. But Viscount Mel
bourne often reads and hears of libels upon the House
of Commons as well as upon the House of Lords, and
Viscount Melbourne could point out other speeches,
made by persons of eminence and authority, which
appear to him not quite so powerful and effective, but

HOME AFFAIRS 297
quite as objectionable and dangerous, as those of Mr.
O'ConneU. The King is glad to learn that the Lord Lieu-
The King ^ °
to Lord tenant of Ireland has no intention of advancing
Melbourne, -.r ,-^,^ °
Windsor Mr. 0 ConneU to the dignity of a Privy Coun-
Castle, . o J J
October 20, ClUor.
1835. In reply to the statement of the course pur
sued by Lord Mulgrave in his character of his Majesty's
Viceroy in Ireland, and Viscount Melbourne's remarks on
the subject, the King has to observe that he admits gene
rally the propriety and the good sense of the rules which
he lays down, and that he considers that the Lord Lieu
tenant of Ireland more particularly should be governed
by the desire to foUow those rules without partiality or
favour. But there may be and are exceptions to all rules ;
and his Majesty cannot help considering Mr. O'Connell
an exception on the present occasion, inasmuch as he
was taught to do so by the government of which Vis
count Melbourne and others of his present colleagues
were members, Avhen they advised him to denounce
Mr. O'Connell in a speech from the throne as a disturber
of the public peace. ^ If they were justified in giving
that advice, his Majesty's representative in Ireland can
not be justified in recei^dng Mr O'Connell at public table ;
and it may be added that he received that attention
almast immediately after his arrival in Dublin from a
tour in Avliich he had aspersed and libelled the House
of Lords, and pursued his usual course of agitation — a
course which, in his Majesty's opinion, fully justifies the
advice given to him to which he has before adverted.
The King laments and deprecates violent language
1 In 1833.

298 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
against the branches of the legislature and those in
authority, whatever may be the quarter from which it
may come ; but he appeals to Viscount Melbourne's good
sense and candour, whether the Government may not
suffer and be committed in a greater degree by libels
uttered on the constitution of the country, the monarchy,
and the two other branches of legislature by ' its most
powerful supporters ' than by its bitterest opponents ?
On October 13 Lord Melbourne wrote to Archbishop
Whately, asking to be informed of the condition of the Pro
testant clergy in Ireland. The Primate's answer (dated Dublin,
October 16, 1835) is remarkable.
The Archbishop begins by congratulating Lord Melbourne
on his ecclesiastical appointments, ' bestowed with a view to
mere merit, without personal or political grounds.' He then
dilates on the state of the Irish Church : —
Your lordship asks how the clergy contrive to
exist. In some instances they are left quite destitute,
and are relieved by a pittance out of the hberal sub
scription raised for them in England. In some instances,
asrain, they are pretty weU paid ; but the greater part of
them are, I believe, in an intermediate state — i.e. a few
of the landlords pay the composition, and the rest not.
Thus, in a living to which I am just about to present a
man, and which is a specimen of many, the proper in
come is between 200^. and 300^., of which a little more
than 80^. is paid. ... If the plan I suggested three
years and a half ago had been then, or soon after,
adopted — that of throwing together the Church re
venues into one fund, to be placed in the hands of an
ecclesiastical Board — and if due advantage had been
taken of such an arrangement, the troubles and distress
of the Church would have been by this time nearly
over ; and this most of the clergy now understand. But

HOME AFFAIRS 299
the Primate and some others succeeded in raising such
a strong suspicion against me as to prevent timely co
operation. With the sincerest wish for the support of
the Establishment, his mistaken views, as I am convinced
they are, lead him to take the very step calculated, in
my judgment, to accelerate its downfall.
But the eyes of the clergy and their friends are
opening more and more to their true interests ; they are
becoming sensible that the congregational system — the
principle of ' the Baring clauses ' — must become law
if the Church establishment here is to stand ; and I ex
pect that a petition in favour of it from the clergy will
be got up against the beginning of the session. The
measure would go far towards cutting the intricate knot
of the ' appropriation.' A difference will indeed exist
between those (nearly all the Protestants, lay and
clerical, in Ireland, and a very large proportion in
England) who deny that the collective revenues of all
the Irish livings exceed what is needed for the collec
tive wants of the fiocks, and those who will not, or who
cannot, consent to leave the revenues undiminished ; but
the bitterest quarrel was about the suppression of
parishes, and this ground of dispute would be completely
cut off by an arrangement which would do away with
parishes altogether, and leave the distribution of the
collective revenues, according to the wants of the seve
ral congregations, in the hands of the members of the
Church. The abstraction, then, of a certain portion of
these revenues would be simply the loss of so much
money ; it would be — compared with the other mode of
' appropriation ' — like losing a few ounces of blood,
instead of having a limb mortified and the mortification
likely to spread.
But I can make allowance for the difficulties of

390 LOED MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Government when opposed, as they must expect, on
the very same point by ultra-Tories and agitators ; the
one madly playing into the hands of the other. E.g.
Mr. Shaw is reported as having vehemently opposed
the Baring clauses ; and / know that an influential
person among the Eadicals frankly avowed to a friend
of mine his utter aversion to the plan, ' because,' said
he, ' it is just the very measure that wiU preserve the
Establishment in Ireland, which I want to see de
stroyed.' Would that our friends knew more or our
enemies less !
I earnestly hope that Ministers wiU not involve
themselves in difficulties by deferring to the last moment
the framing of a Bill (some there must be unavoidably)
for the settlement of the Irish Church, and by withholding
confidence from those whom there is no reason to distrust.
To the Archbishop's proposal Lord Melbourne appears to
have mentioned some objections, to which the Archbishop replied,
on October 24 : —
... On the whole I should say that making the
clergy independent in a pecuniary view (dependent
for a pleasant neighbourhood they must always be) of
their congregations {i.e. of all their parishioners, as they
now are of most) would be a great benefit in respect of
[the better class] of clergymen ; and in regard to the
worst [those who look chiefly to monetary considera
tions] would do no evil, since it would only change one
kind of fault for another, and not a worse— servile
timidity or noxious flattery for insolence or negligence.
But the circumstances I just mentioned [the depen
dence of many Erotestant clergymen on Eoman Cathohc
parishioners] are so decisive as far as Ireland is concerned
that I need not dwell further on more general reasons.
As for the other two objections, as it is unnecessary

HOME AFFAIRS 301
to prove to your lordship that they are futile, so it is
not difl[icult to meet them in a manner satisfactory to
all who may urge them with sincerity and are open to
conviction ; the rest may be, perhaps, sUenced, though
never satisfied.
1. The clergy, from being stipendiaries of their
parishioners — who are mostly hostile to their religion —
will become stipendiaries of an ecclesiastical Board, con
sisting of respectable individuals belonging to their com
munion. If any^one can deliberately prefer the former, he
must have been reading of Eomiilus and Eeiiius suckled
by the wolf, till he has come to the conclusion that the
wolf is the very best wet-nurse. As for separating the
clergy from the land, I have really nothing to say but
that it is not fields but human beings upon which our
culture is bestowed. I remarked before the Lords Com
missioners, three and a half years ago, how lamentable it
was that, under the tithe system, as buildings increase
and cover what were cornfields, the revenues of the
clergyman are regularly diminishing, exactly in the
ratio that the services required of him increase.
2. The principle of conferring a benefit on e&chspot,
in consideration of the revenue drawn from the inhabi
tants of that spot, leads to such a long tissue of absurd
ities, and some of them so palpable, that I think those
of the widest swallow would choke at some of them.
Lord Mel- J HAVE the houour of acknowledging y^our lord-
boume to o o ./
Dr. Bur- ship's letter of y^esterday, together with the pub-
(Bishop of lication which accompanies it.^ I return your
Salisbury). . ., , .-
Downing lordsliip my^ Sincere thanks, and snail pay tJie
street, r •! _ i • i
November most scrious attention to the observations winch
9, 1835. ' A copy of a printed letter on Lord Melbourne's speech on the Irish
Tithe Bin.

a02 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
y^our lordship has done me the honour of addressing
me. It is no more than due both to the importance
of the subject and to the eminence of your lordship's
character. As I perceive, however, by the first page, that your
lordship has, very naturally, only seen the report which
appeared in the public journals, I beg leave to transmit
to your lordship a correct copy of the speech which I
delivered upon that occasion. Your lordship will ob
serve that in what I stated of the identity of the main
doctrines of the Christian faith, as professed by the
Eoman Catholic and Protestant Churches, I carefully
grounded myself upon what had fallen a day or two
before from the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is pos
sible that I may have misstated or overstated his Grace,
I may have omitted some qualifications and distinctions
that he introduced ; but I intended to repeat the sub
stance of what the Archbishop had said without omission
or addition. The sentiment that the Eoman Catholic rehgion
ought not to be treated like a superstition founded
upon imposture or disgraced by barbarism, is taken
from a book of great power and piety, lately pubhshed,
entitled the ' Eemains of Alexander Knox,' and to which
your lordship's attention may probably have been drawn.
I have written this much that I may lose no time in
exonerating myself in your lordship's opinion from
having spoken upon such a subject without considera
tion or without authority.
The chief matter for consideration during the latter part of
the recess was the Lord Chancellorship, which obviously could
not be left much longer in commission. Before matters were
settled, Lord Melbourne had a dilEcult correspondence with the
Attorney-General, who was by no means backward in pressing
his claims.

HOME AFFAIRS 303
Lord Mel- I RECEIVED your letter yesterday morning at
strTohi" Woburn Abbey, and was prevented by my
Pansw' .journey hither from answering it, as I other-
De'cember ^^^^ should liavo douc, by the post of yesterday
81, 1885. evening. You wiU give me credit for sincerity
when I assure you that I have read it with great pain.
I feel convinced that you are actuated by the purest
and most honourable principles ; I entirely appreciate
your devotion to what you consider the right cause, and
the services which you have rendered, and I feel con
vinced that, whatever may be the issue of this unfortu
nate correspondence, your political conduct will remain
unaffected by any feelings of anger or disappointment.
I had, I own, entertained a sanguine expectation that
the peculiarities of the present time, and of our actual
situation, would have induced you to acquiesce in the
arrangement which we have thought it our duty to
propose. You say you do not mean to reason the
matter with me, and it would be presumptuous if I
were to attempt to reason it with you, who are so much
more familiar with the whole subject. I will only ob
serve that, with respect to the separation of Law and
Equity, I have often heard others express the same
opinion as yourself; but stiU the separation has gone on,
establishing and defining itself more and more distinctly,
until it has become complete, and, however we may
lament or condemn, we must yield to the irresistible
tendency of events and accommodate ourselves to those
circumstances which we find in existence and which we
cannot change.^ With regard to the honour of the Bar,
&c., the principal object which we have to bear in view
^ The real reason was, not that Sir John CampbeU was a common
lawyer, but that the King objected to him in toto ; but, of course. Lord
Melbourne could hardly mention it.

,304 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
is the public welfare, the benefit of the litigant parties,
the due administration of justice ; and much as I re
spect the profession of the law, I cannot hold that their
opinions and feelings are to be taken into account, ex
cept inasmuch as they are founded in reason and are
evidence of the convenience or inconvenience of the
course which they either approve or condemn.
I have only to repeat my expression of the deep
sorrow with which I have read your letter, to express
my strong hope that you will reconsider it, and at any
rate that you wiU not act in the matter with anything
of haste and precipitation.
Lord Mel- ^is Majestt wiU naturally have been some-
sSiiSbert ^^^^* surprised at so long a time having been
soua ¦ suffered to elapse without his hearing any more
June 12 °^ ^^^ arrangements respecting the Great Seal,
1836. Qf -^iiich I have had the honour to receive his
Majesty's approbation. The fact is that some of the
obstacles which were foreseen have arisen, and I have
been engaged in attempting to remove them. Lord
Brougham has made no objection whatever, and, indeed,
the state of his health is such as to preclude him from
attending much at present to public affairs, but quiet
and repose will restore him, and with his recovery his
activity must be expected to return. The feelings of
the Attorney-General have been much, and perhaps not
unnaturally, excited. It certainly has been usual that
persons in his situation should receive the offer of such
great offices as are now vacant, and nothing but a deep
sense of public duty^, and a feeling that a change of
system has become necessary, would have induced me
to have altered the usual course upon the present occa
sion ; and perhaps it is, though unavoidable, somewhat

HOME AFFAIRS 305
unfortunate that this alteration takes place in the person
of Sir John Campbell, who is undoubtedly the first
common lawy^er in Westminster HaU. His loss, under
any circumstances, would be severely felt by his Majesty's
Government ; under the present circumstances it would
be still more prejudicial ; and I trust, therefore, that his
Majesty will forgive me for having taken rather extra
ordinary measures in order to retain him by pledging
myself to advise his Majesty, if he wiU remain Attorney-
General, to raise Lady Campbell immediately to the
peerage. This, though an unusual, is not an unprece
dented course. It was taken, I understand, in the case
of Lord Mansfield, when it was desirable for the Govern
ment to retain him in the House of Commons ; and I
trust, therefore, that his Majesty will be graciously
pleased to think that I have acted for the best, and will
enable me to fulfil the undertaking ' into which I have
entered. This being settled, the arrangements may be
declared, and I will again write regarding the mode and
time of carrying them into effect. I should be most
anxious to receive his Majesty's most gracious answer.
Lord Mui- ^^ ^3,8 occurred to me that in the loose obser-
Cd Mel- nations I threw out yesterday in reference to
Private 3'°^^ enquiry as to the present state of the
Pebriar couutry, I did not make sufficiently obvious
28 [1836]. |.j^g extent to which all serious offences have at
present diminished, whilst I dwelt much upon my own
conviction that, as some of the causes of disturbance
were permanent, its occasional and partial recurrence
must StiU be expected. But there is nothing hke figures
upon this sort of question, and to show that some im
provement has taken place in the general condition of
the country, and that aU serious offences, those arising

806 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
from combination for land as well as for political causes,
have been much reduced, I went over again this morn
ing for your benefit the monthly returns for the four
provinces for the month of January (one month later
than my last letter to John Eussell on this subject), and
I find that, of the second table, containing aU ' Outrages
of a murderous or political character, or having intimi
dation for their object, or resulting from combination,' the
number, in the whole of Ireland for the whole of January
1835 was 709, for January 1836 308 ; and if one de
ducts 100 from the former number on account of the
burnings of LoughgaU in the county of Armagh — which
swelled the returns for the province of Ulster unusually
in that month last year — still, the total reduction from
six hundred to three may^ fairly be stated at one-half
of the whole crime of this description in the country.
This also including a temporary increase of a third,
from sixty to ninety, in the county^ of Tipperary, which
was at its worst in the month of January, the returns
for the first fortnight of this month showing a most
marked improvement. We have this morning received
accounts from Major Wriothesley, commanding a de
tachment in that county, of the capture of a whole
armed gang of eleven men, with the great leader of the
whole banditti, a. ' Captain Long ' as he is called. I
trust that this will have exceUent effect.
The session of 1836 was not productive of much legislation.
The Irish Tithe Bill was again lost, through the rejection of tlie
Appropriation clauses by the House of Lords. The following
letter relates to the regulations affecting the building of new
churches : —
Lord Mel- The clauscs are erased from the Bill, and there-
to°t™ fore there is an end of them ; but I am a httle
bishop of surprised at your objections to them, as 1

HOME AFFAIRS 807
Dublin. thought it had been one of your principles that
Confiden- 11 ii • n .1 i. r
tial. aU autliority, however high, either in station or
South • J. 1 . • T .
Street, m talent, required superintendence and check.
isT' ' For God's sake be upon your guard against idola,
whether of situation or of occupation. When people
get employed in any pursuit, and more particularly in
that of church building, glebe-house building, school
erecting, &c. &c., they are apt to lose sight of every
other consideration except the promotion of these im
mediate objects. This is apt to lead to too exclusive
projects, and in order to correct this disposition nothing
is so effectual as the revision of a fresh eye. In the
past history of the world no feehngs have been more
extravagant and expensive, nor have imposed heavier
burthens upon mankind, than those of piety and charity,
and none require to be more carefuUy watched in
future. A similar fate attended the Irish Municipal Corporation
Bill, which had been introduced in the previous session and then
dropped. When it was first introduced the King had raised
considerable objections to the measure.

Lord Mel-

ViscouNT Melbourne presents his humble duty
bourne to to your Majcsty, and is much concerned to
Downing hear from Lord John EusseU that your Majesty^
Augus'tis, has remarked with dissatisfaction upon the
1885. . . . . -"^
Bill for the regulation of Municipal Corpora
tions having been introduced into the House of Com
mons without having been first submitted to your
Majesty. Viscount Melbourne chiefly laments that
this omission, for which he is solely responsible, took
place, and he is well aware that the different circum
stances of the countries made the English measure
not necessarily a precedent for that which it may be

303 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
fit to adopt in Ireland. Viscount Melbourne humbly
solicits your Majesty's indulgence for this neglect,
which is to be attributed, together with any other of
which he may have been guilty, to the extreme and
urgent pressure of business. The report upon this sub
ject proves that, as far as abuse was concerned, some
measure of this nature was much more urgently re
quired in Ireland than in England, some measure must
be adopted and cannot long be postponed, and Viscount
Melbourne trusts that the measure which has been
introduced will be found to be safe and prudent ; but
Viscount Melbourne would be deceiving your Majesty
if he were to conceal that any measure remedial of the
present system must of necessity add to the power and
weight of those who constitute the majority of the
people of that country^
The King; has learnt with satisfaction from
The-King *=¦ , , „ , ¦
to Lord Viscount Melbourne s letter of yesterday, as
windso™ ' weU as from Lord John EusseU's, that his
Au^st 16, Majesty's letters to the latter on the subject of
the BiU for the regulation of Municipal Corpo
rations in Ireland had been communicated to him.
His Majesty assures Viscount Melbourne that he en
tirely acquits him of the disposition, upon this or any
occasion, to omit to submit any measure to him which
may require his sanction before it is brought under
discussion, or to withhold information which it is neces
sary his Majesty should possess with the view to the
honest and conscientious discharge of his own duty.
The King is sensible of the extent and the importance
of Viscount Melbourne's arduous and harassing occu-
])ations, and he is not so unreasonable as to expect
that his valuable time should be wasted in comrau-

HOME AFFAIRS 309
nications and explanations which may be considered
immaterial. But the proposed regulation of the municipal cor
porations of the United Kingdom is one of the most
important measures which has at any time been brought
under the consideration of the sovereign of this country
and of the two other branches of the legislature, and it
involves radical changes (his Majesty does not mean to
apply the word invidiously) which affect prerogative,
privileges, and local rights of the most ancient dates.
The King has always looked upon Viscount Mel
bourne as a firm supporter of the Constitutional
Monarchy of this country, and he believes him to be a
Conservative in the truest sense of the word, and to as
great a degree as is his Majesty himself ; though candour
obliges him to own that he does not give credit to all
his colleagues for the same feeling, and still less so to
many of those upon whose votes in the House of Com
mons the Government is unfortunately^ obliged to rely
for adequate support. It is to these circumstances, as
weU as to an impression, and possibly a very reasonable
one, which his Majesty conceives Viscount Melbourne
may harbour of the necessity of yielding hi some
degree to the ' spirit of the times,' that his Majesty
ascribes the concurrence of Viscount Melbourne in
measures of which the character may not appear to him
altogether consistent with the high Conservative feehngs
for which he gives him credit.
The King stated to Lord John EusseU that the Irish
Municipal Corporation BUI had been brought to a
second reading without having been submitted to him
(nor has his Majesty yet seen it), and Lord John EusseU
rephed that Viscount Melbourne had considered it
unnecessary to. bring it under his Majesty's notice, as

310 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the general character and provisions of the two Bills
were similar. But his Majesty observed in reply (Vis
count Melbourne appears to admit this), that the differ
ent circumstances of the two countries must render the
English measure in many respects mapphcable to
Ireland. No person can feel this more deeply than does the
King, no man can lament more sincerely than he does
that the state of Ireland should differ so essentiaUy from
that of England, and that abuses have been shown to
prevail in Ireland which call for remedial measures,
general and local, much more urgently than in England.
But this is the very ground of his Majesty's anxiety for
the adoption of measures which sliaU be safe and pru
dent, as weU as efficient ; and that anxiety is not ahtUe
increased by a contemplation of the necessity to which
Viscount Melbourne has adverted of adding, by any
measures remedial of the present system, to the power
and weight of those who constitute the majority of the
people of that country — namely, the Eoman Cathofics.
The King has never admitted any prejudice against
that portion of his subjects. He believes them to be in
spirit, and from the nature of their religious doctrine
and principles, as loyal and as well affected as any other
class — nay, he believes them, when not subject to the
influence of a mischievous agitation, to be better in
clined to royalty, and to the support of established
authority, than the generality of other Dissenters from
the Established Church. But when his Majesty looks
to the influence which is at this period exercised by
Mr. D. O'Connell, the declared advocate of Eepeal of
the Union and of separation between Church and State,
the exciter and promoter of resistance to legal au-
thtrity, when he looks to the active exertions of his

HOME AFFAIRS Sll
coadjutors and agents in these works of iniquity, it is
impossible that his Majesty should not also contemplate
with apprehension the extension to Ireland of any
measure of popular character which may tend to con
solidate and to strengthen the power and the influence,
not of the Government, but of those who wish to sub
vert it and to destroy also the Estabhshed Church ; and
he repeats to Viscount Melbourne that he could not
help noticing with suspicion and dread the exultation
manifested by Mr. D. O'ConneU and his clique when
they became acquainted with the provisions of the BiU
for the regulation of Municipal Corporations in Ireland.
The King has never objected to the admission of his
Eoman Catholic subjects in Ireland to civil rights and
privileges, but he is conscious that aU that tends to
increase their power and weight should be introduced
with extreme caution, and that great attention should
be paid to the reservation of the means of controlling
the use of that power, and of checking its abuse, so long
as Mr. O'ConneU shall unfortunately succeed in per
verting the minds of so large a portion of the people of
Ireland, and of directing them to purposes opposed to
allegiance and inconsistent with the welfare of that
country and the security of the empire.
Durinc the session the one-sided character of the Ecclesias-
tical Commission caused Lord Melbourne some misgivings, and
he wrote on the subject to the Archbishop of Canterbury,
Dr. Howley: —
South I THINK it hkely, and indeed it has been sug-
jun?29 gested to me, that upon the consideration of
1836. ' ^i^Q general Bill in the House of Commons
serious objection may be taken to that part of it which
constitutes the present Ecclesiastical Commission a per
manent body for carrying into effect the Avliole of the

312 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
intended measures.^ It is certainly rather a strong
measure to delegate such an authority, even though it
be confined to certain settled and specified purposes,
and the persons who are to exercise this power will
undoubtedly, be considered and scrutinised with great
jealousy ; and those who are Commissioners by virtue
of their office, it wiU be said, may be removed at any
moment, and probably wiU be changed before the Com
mission shall have discharged the duties which are
intrusted to it.
Their names, therefore, afford us no permanent secu
rity, and when they are gone the rest of the Commission
will remain entirely of one cast and colour of opinion
and character. This is an objection which appears to
me to have some weight in itself, and which wiU cer
tainly exercise a considerable influence upon the opinion
of many ; and it is therefore worth while to consider
whether there are no means of obviating it. With this
view it might, perhaps, be advisable to introduce some
other names, lay and clerical, which might vary in some
degree the general complexion of the Commission, and
enable it to command that assent and confidence which
some might not be disposed to place in it. I wish
your Grace would consider this matter, which appears
to me to be of importance with reference to the success
of the measure.
The session, as a whole, was a failure, owing to the unrelent
ing hostility of the majority of the House of Lords. The
Government could only set off the passing of the English Tithe
Commutation Act, the Marriage Act, and the reduction of the
paper duties against the loss of the Irish Tithe Bill, the Irish
Municipal Corporation Bill, and the English Corporation
Amendment Bill. It was not the fault of Ministers, and at
the close of the session there was considerable force in Lord
' The Tithe Commutation Bill, which became law in that session.

HOME AFFAIRS 313
Melbourne's application to Lord Lyndhurst of the Earl of
Bristol's saying about Lord Strafford : ' The malignity of his
practices is hugely aggravated by his vast talents, whereof
God hath given him the use, but the Devil the application.'
They seriously debated whether it was possible to go on in
face of an actively hostile majority,' but though an autumn
session was decided as .being out of the question, they again
confronted their enemies in the spring of 1837.
Lord I H^VE this morning received yours of the 28 th
Melbourne ultimo. The matter stands thus. When the
Confiden!' Grovemiuent was formed a certain number of
Brocket namcs were mentioned to me, to the promo-
oc'toberi, ^^01^ of whom there would be permanent and
1836. decided objection, and amongst these names was
included that of Shiel. I, of course, protested against
this exclusion, and said that I reserved the right to
bring any one of these names under consideration ; and
so the matter was adjusted, or rather left as a subject
of future difference. Kow I think that you will agree
with me that in these circumstances I should not be
justified in advancing any of these persons, or in suffer
ing them to be advanced by any member of my Govern
ment, without giving notice of the intention, and bring
ing their names speciaUy under consideration. Now
the question is, whether it is prudent to stir this ques
tion at present and in this instance. The impression
will be that one of these names has been brought for
ward already, and I shall have the same take place with
respect to aU the rest, one after another. But then you
wiU say, although you protest against this principle of
exclusion, you, in fact, admit it, and give it full prac
tical effect. But the question is one of present j)rudence.
I am aware that it must come to be decided at last, and
' Lord Brougliton's ' Recollections,' in the Edinburgh Beview.

314 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
there is nothing I dislike so much as this deferring and
temporising ; at the same time it is sometimes wise and
indeed, necessary. This point of the Irish Eoman
Catholics and the Church in Ireland is that upon which
we are the weakest in England, upon which we have the
strongest feehng against us, and upon which it would
be the most disadvantageous to us to come to issue.
But the state of the Irish Bar being such as you report
it, to an issue upon it we shall come ; as I quite agree
Avith you that the passing over the Attorney- and
Sohcitor-General ^ now is only getting rid of the diffi
culty for the present, and that we must uhimately, and
probably at no great distance of time, insist upon pro
moting those who are best quahfied for it by their pro
fessional eminence without reference to their religious
creed. What you say of the Bar presents rather a prospect
of difficulty, because, if there are no Erotestant Liberal
barristers fit to fill the high law offices, there are, of
course, none fit for seats upon the Bench ; and yet, if
we remain in, we must expect vacancies. I wish you
would just give me a short statement of those who are
at present the leading advocates at the Eish Bar, with
a statement of their character, political and otherwise.,
What character has Shiel in his profession ? Is he con
sidered a competent lawyer? When Liverpool's ad
ministration were not, indeed, in a similar situation
in Scotland, but in something of a similar situation to
that in which we are in Ireland — that is, when they
had no lawyers of their own politics fit for the Bench,
they took the most eminent persons — such as Gillies
and Moncrieffe — from the ranks of their opponents ; and
1 Mr. O'Loghlen, the first Roman Catholic who had received office
since the Revolution.

HOME AFFAIRS 3] 5
I do not believe that their course was very much con
demned by their own partisans. This, however, cannot
be done — even if there are the means of doing it — in
Ireland nor in the present times. Upon the whole I
think it would be imprudent to press this at present ;
but if you are of opinion that it would be worse to
put him off, and that you cannot make a satisfactory
arrangement otherwise, I will consider the matter
further. With respect to the Bench, I am clearly of
opinion that it would be best to do our utmost to avoid
difficulties at present by adopting the arrangement
which you suggested in your former letter, leaving the
battle to be fought upon the next occasion, which can
not be very far distant.
As I have quite made up my own mind, I think
Melbourne it bcst to acQuaiiit you that I have done so. I
to Mr. . ^ ''
Poulett have considered the cj^uestion as coolly and im-
south ' partially as I could, and not without a due
January scusc of its importance, and I still feel and
11, 1837. . . _ -^ . .
thmk that 1 cannot give way upon this point
of making the Ballot an open question. We have never
laid great stress upon it nor very much pressed to vote
against it those who had declared themselves for it. I
am ready to conduct the Government, in this respect,
in the manner in which it has been conducted, but I
cannot now make any alteration. I should feel myself
disgraced by doing so, and should not be able to reply
to those observations which I feel would be justly made
upon me.
The same I MEAN that everything should stand exactly
sime^ as it did, and you, of course, amongst the rest,
street precisely in the same position which you so
i™i837- exactly describe ; that no alteration should be

316 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
made now and under the present circumstances. I feel
that I could not bear up against — not the obloquy, but
the just accusation of doing so, and I do not think
that, when they come to try it, others would find that
they could either.
It may, as you say, be fatal to the Government. It
probably will; and that consideration has made me
pause so long. But so, I am convinced, would the
other course ; and with disgrace.
Meanwhile a great meeting of Protestants had assembled at
Dublin and denounced the policy of the Government. It was
evidently with great difEculty that Lord Melbourne prevented
the Lord Lieutenant from resorting to measures of retahation.

Lord

I WAS obliged to start on Saturday morning for
to Loi-d™^ Brighton before the post came in, and therefore
sluth''''^' ^^^ ^^^ receive your letter of the 25th until
street, ^]^^j^ evcniug, and upon my return I found your
January o^ i .^ 'J
30, 1837. two Other letters, but too late to write upon
them by the mail of yesterday. The matter which you
mention in them is of great importance, and ought to
be proceeded on deliberately and without any appear
ance of precipitation or passion ; it wUl require that the
resolution should be read with great care, which I shall
not have time to do until after to-morrow. It will not
do to proceed upon anything of the past in the speeches,
nor upon anything in the resolutions except the inten
tional aUegation of false facts. False inferences from
facts aU men are liable to draw. There are, however,
one or two observations which I wish to make at
present. It is a matter of too great magnitude for you
to act in, although you may have the power, without the
knowledge and sanction of the King. It would be not
only improper, but it would be the height of impolicy

HOME AFFAIRS 317
to do so. The King is the fairest man in the world
when matters are laid fairly before him, but he is
naturally and justly impatient of anything resembling
an attempt to carry him into measures clandestinely,
and without his knowledge or consent. It must also be
considered that, if you take strong measures against the
temporary and occasional meetings, you will be much
pressed, and in a manner diflicult to be resisted, to pro-
C3ed against the Association,^ a body of a permanent
character, and in which very violent resolutions have
been adopted. There can hardly be a proceeding
more unjustifiable, whether considered personally or as
a violation of the freedom of Earliamentary debate,
than the resolution which that assembly passed against
Lyndhurst. Again, y^ou must remember that John Eussell, in
the debate upon the Orange lodges,^ distinctly said that,
if the Erotestants have any complaints to make, let
them not meet in these secret societies, but let them
call public constitutional meetings, there state what
they conceive to be their wrongs, and petition the
Throne and the Ear liament for the redress of them.
This is exactly what these persons have done, and we
have always held that the exercise of the right of
petitioning should not be looked into with too much
strictness and nicety. The objection to the Orange
lodges was that they were secret, and then their being
exclusive was an aggravation of their danger. But it
is a necessary constitutional right that classes of people
should be able to meet together and discuss their own
' The National Association, which, though established nominally to
petition Parhament for the passing of the Irish Tithe and Municipal
BiUs, was really the old Association in another shape.
^ The grea.t debates on the Orange lodges were in 1835, but the ques
tion was renewed in 1836.

318 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
particular interests — trades, persons engaged in Specula
tions, &c. The Dissenters might meet to consider their
own complaints, and it would be very reasonable that
they should not be troubled at such a meeting with the
presence of Churchmen, who are opposed to the very
object of the meeting itself. Eray do consider all these
matters carefully. You have a great power in Ireland
in consequence of the cordial assistance of the great
body of the people. You are accused by your adver
saries of using that power violently and tyrannically.
For God's sake let us be very careful that we furnish
no real ground for such an accusation.
Lord Mel- ^^ ^^^is niomiug held the Cabinet which I
Lord Mul nrentioned to you in my letter of yesterday.
Downing ^^ carcfuUy read the resolutions of the Pro-
ItbruLry testaut meeting in Dubhn and aU your letters
1,1837. upon the subject, addressed to both John Eus
seU and myself, and we considered the whole matter
with that care and attention which was due to its own
importance and to the strong feeling and opinion which
you have expressed upon it. I enclose you the confi
dential opinions of our law oflicers here, which I think
you will feel to be very strong against the view that
you have taken.
It struck us in the first instance that there could be
no question except as to Lord Downshire. He, as chair
man of the meeting, was of course cognisant of and
party to the resolutions, which he put from the chair.^
' The petition to the House of Lords embodying the resolutions pro
tested against (1) the attacks upon Protestantism, displayed in the perse
cution of individual ministers and the refusal to pay tithes, a refusal
promoted by agitation ; (2) the conduct of the Government in not
suppressing the Association, and in its injurious exercise of the prerogative
of mercy.

HOME AFFAIRS 319
The Earl of Donoughmore moved a resolution of fact,
to which no objection can be taken further than that
you may differ from it, in an unexceptional speech. It
is, perhaps, the strict law that a man who attends a
meeting is responsible for aU that is said and done ; but
this can never in justice be enforced, and it surely would
not do for us to be the persons to attempt to carry it
into literal execution.
You state the meeting, upon the whole, to have been
a faUure, and upon this statement it occurred to us that
it would be highly impolitic to take any step which
must have the effect of giving to these proceedings a
weight and importance which they do not already
possess. The resolution moved by Colonel ConoUy ap
peared to us to be the only one upon which it was
possible to rely as the foundation of such a proceeding
as you propose ; and when we came to consider that
resolution, it seemed to us that it did not state the par
dons you have granted, and the appointments which
you have made, to have been granted and made with
the design of producing the effects which are said to
have arisen from them.
Upon the whole, we were decidedly of opinion that
it would be imprudent and inexpedient to proceed fur
ther against either Lord Downshire or Lord Donough
more, or against any of the persons who were present
and took a part in the business. At the same time we
thought that the violence and the prejudice with which
they had acted were amply sutflcient to justify the Lord
ChanceUor in not consulting them upon the appoint
ment of magistrates and in paying httle or no attention
to their recommendations.
I can assure you that the only difliculty which we
felt in comini? to this determination arose from our great

320 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
unwillingness to decide against your strong impression
and recommendation. But the case appeared so clear
that we could not do otherwise ; and I myself go the
full length of the Solicitor-General that, though there
is in the resolutions much violence and much injustice,
there is no matter treated which is not a fair subject of
discussion, nor in a manner or in language which would
not be justifiable, supposing the charges to be well
founded. There are no false facts stated. Assistant
barristers have been appointed and criminals have been
pardoned. Mistaken inferences from facts and the
attributing bad and interested motives are common to
aU political discussions. I have already stated in my
former letters many other reasons which lead to the
same conclusion, and I cannot but entertain the hope
that, upon reconsidering their force and bearing, you
will be convinced by them.
I AM sure you wiU believe me when I apprise
tothr""^ you that it gives me the deepest concern to
ruS-y 4,^ " find that we take such very different views of
¦^^^^' this question, and that you adhere so decidedly
to your first opinion. Some of the difference perhaps
arises from the different situations in which we are
placed, and the different points from which we view the
matter ; but I feel confident that you wiU also admit
that, however ready I may be to defer to your judg
ment, and however anxious to act in entire union with
you, I could not consent with my eyes open to com
mit what it appears to me would be an error, and
what upon consideration strikes me as having been a
great blunder in former administrations who have re
sorted to such measures. Such is the character which
Eitt's dismissal of the Duke of Norfolk bears in my

HOME AFFAIRS 321
eyes.^ It was a proof rather of a consciousness of weak
ness than of strength. Eitt was then in circumstances
which might have enabled him safely to overlook any
thing of the kind — he was master of a decided majority
in both Houses of Earhament— and his showing so much
irritation and resentment was rather liable to the impu
tation of not feeling either so strong as he reaUy was or
so right as he affirmed himself to be. I wish to avoid
the same error and not to run into it, and thus to give
another occasion for the remark that all administrations
are in fact in this conduct the same. Another objection
is that, as a mark of disapprobation and animadversion
the step is so utterly weak and impotent. I know not
what the weight or influence of that meeting may have
been, but I feel persuaded that such a course would
immediately add to it, and raise both Downshire and
Donoughmore into an importance which they do not
at present hope for. Your last letters confine the ques
tion to one resolution, upon which I have already
written to you. Now, suppose Lord Downshire had
raised that resolution in Earhament, would you have
proposed to dismiss him for it ? and yet in these con
stitutional meetings is not the same latitude of discussion
to be permitted as in the Houses of Lords and- Commons ?
The magistrates and deputy lieutenants who were dis
missed for attending tithe meetings advised resistance
to the laws, and I call your attention to the distinctions
drawn by our Attorney-General in this respect in his
letter. I have only again to repeat my great sorrow at this
difference of opinion, and my anxious hope that it may
' The Duke of Norfolk was in 1788 dismissed from the Lord Lieuten
ancy of the West Riding for speaking at a Whig dinner at the ' Grown
and Anchor.' (Lord Stanhope's Life of Pitt, chap, xxv.) Y

322 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
make no difference whatever in our future agreement
or in the conduct of co-operation and correspondence
which has hitherto subsisted between us.
The same ^ ^^'^ ^^ moTo upou the subjcct of our late
Bam^^con- correspondencc further than this, that I en-
south^^' tirely appreciate and deeply feel the manner in
PebruLry "^tich you havc acted, and the sacrifice which
7,1837. your 2eal for the pubhc interest has induced
you to make of your own feelings and opinions. I wiU
only make one general observation, and that because it
strikes my mind very forcibly.
You are engaged in a very difficult task, no other
than that of carrying the Eoman Catholic Belief Bill
into actual practical effect. The violent opposition of
the high Erotestant party to the passing of that Bill,
and their violent conduct since its passing, have unfor
tunately but necessarily excluded from high office in
Ireland many of the men who by their rank, station, and
abilities were the best qualified for it. You are, there
fore, transferring aU the power and influence which can
be derived from appointments from the Irish Brotest-
ants, who have hitherto enjoyed them ahnost exclusively,
to the Eoman Catholics, and to those whom I presume
they detest, as it is natural they should, much more
than they do the Eoman Catholics, those Erotestants
who have embraced the liberal and conciliatory side of
the question. This process, of course, greatly irritates,
by affecting their interests and still more by wounding
their pride ; and in my opinion much aUowance ought
to be made for those who are undergoing such a very
disagreeable and indeed painful operation.
Now with respect to what I said about the Associa
tion. It was as foUows — that I saw its establishment

HOME AFFAIRS 323
with concern, that I did not think the grounds upon
which it was estabhshed sufficient to justify so extreme
a measure, and that there were some of its proceedings,
as there always would be in such assemblies, of which
I could not express approbation. Now this is my real
opinion. I felt the inconvenience of having to state it,
but as the Duke of Wellington had adverted to the
subject I could not help doing it, and, after aU, the de
claration of opinion could not have been long delayed.
I did not aUude particularly to this Orange meeting in
Dublin, but I did observe generally upon the Conserva
tive meetings^ throughout the country. I think it would
not be worth while for y^ou to come over upon the debate
upon the petition ; but if you wish anything particular
to be said, if you wiU instruct either me or Lansdowne
or HoUand, or whom y^ou please, it will of course be
done. I suspect the real object of the Association to be
the raising of the O'ConneU tribute in another form. I
suspect that it is intended to vote him a sum out of the
rent ; otherwise, why do we hear nothing of the tribute
itself? The Church Rates Bill was introduced early in the session.
Lord Mel- ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
the King, to your Majesty, and begs respectfully to submit
street, the heads of a BiU which your Maj esty's confiden-
5^im7 tial servants propose to submit to Earhament
for the abolition of the present mode of levying Church
rate, and of providing an adequate fund for the repair
of the edifices and other requisites of divine worship.
The imposition of Church rate, and the existing manner
of assessing and collecting it, are amongst the most
ancient of the institutions of the country. They were
not authorised by any statute, but rest upon the

324 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
common law of the country ; and it appears by an ordi
nance in the time of Edward I., five hundred and fifty
years ago, that it was at that time the recognised law
and established practice that the chancel should be
repaired at the expense of the rector, and nave or body
of the church by the parishioners at large. This was
before the Established Church in its present form, or
any of the sects of Dissenters, were either heard or
thought of. The rate was agreed upon and the amount
settled by the ratepayers of the parish. This power,
which was evidently given in former times only that the
inhabitants might themselves decide whether the pro
posed expenses were necessary, and whether they were
not too large, has in our day been extended to the
refusal of rates entirely upon other grounds — viz. upon
the broad principle that those who dissent from the
doctrines and ceremonies of the Church, and who do
not partake of the benefits of her worship, ought not
to be compeUed to pay any part of her expenses. This
mode of acting, though it has not hitherto been pushed
to the full extent to which the Dissenters have the
power to carry it, has already produced in different
places much unseemly discord and contention and very
capricious and unsatisfactory results, the rate being
granted in some places and entirely refused in others,
with all the consequent inconveniences. In order to
put an end to these conflicts, to establish a certain sys
tem, and to reheve the Dissenters from a charge from
which it appears to Viscount Melbourne as much the
interest of the Church as theirs that they should be
exempted, the accompanying plan is simply to obtain
the necessary funds from the property actually pos
sessed by the Church, and for this purpose to pursue
the same course with the landed property of the Church

HOME AFFAIRS 825
of England as has been already pursued with the pro
perty of the Crown and Church of England in Ireland :
to let the lands at their real value, and out of the funds
so raised to appropriate the necessary sum to the pay^-
ment of the Church rate, and to form a reserve fund
to be applied in the manner specified. To this is to be
added a scheme for raising a certain sum by pew-rents
to be devoted to the same purposes.
Some opposition is, of course, to be expected to this
proposition on the part of the present lessees, but it is
hoped that the advantages which are held out will be
sufficient to insure the acquiescence of the majority ;
and even if it were not. Viscount Melbourne does not
perceive that they are treated with any injustice, or
that they have less favourable consideration than was
formerly given by Mr. Eitt to the lessees of the Crown.
Viscount Melbourne respectfully transmits a copy of the
reports upon that subject, which will recall to your
Majesty's mind the objections made to that measure,
which, however, was carried into effect, with the result
of an improvement of the property of the Crown to the
extent of which your Majesty is well aware.
Viscount Melbourne is compeUed to add, with very
great concern, that from correspondence which has
taken place between the Archbishop of Canterbury and
Lord John Eussell, Viscount Melbourne fears that the
support of his Grace, and consequently of many others
of the reverend bench, cannot be reckoned upon.
Viscount Melbourne is very reluctant to take any step in
a matter relating to the interests of the Church contrary
to the opinion of such authorities ; but Viscount Mel
bourne considers the final settlement of this question
of such paramount importance to the State as well as
to the Church that, being persuaded that this is the

326 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
best if not the only mode of effecting such a settlement,
Viscount Melbourne and his colleagues deem it to be
their duty, notwithstanding this discouragement and
disadvantage, to submit this measure to the dehbera-
tion and decision of Earhament.
The^s^e ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
Bame. to your Majcsty, and begs leave respectfuUy to
street, ackuowlcdge your Majesty's gracious communi-
13,1837. cation upon the scheme for the abohtion of
Church rates which Viscount Melbourne, upon the part
of your Majesty's confidential servants, had the honour
of submitting to your Majesty. Viscount Melbourne is
deeply sensible of the attention which your Majesty has
bestowed upon the subject, and of the fairness and can
dour with which your Majesty has considered it, and
the limitations and modifications which your Majesty
has suggested will receive on the part of your Majesty's
servants that careful and attentive consideration which
is due to their own weight and to the high quarter from
which they proceed. Viscount Melbourne would, how
ever, be wanting in the duty which he owes to your
Majesty if he omitted or delayed to state his own
strong opinion that it wiU neither be for the credit of
the administration nor for the general welfare to alter
the original plan in the manner which has been pro
posed. Viscount Melbourne wiU not enter into argu
ment at present further than humbly to represent to
your Majesty that your assent to the introduction of
this BiU into EarUament by your servants is only an
assent to its being there fuUy considered and discussed ;
and the history of the Appropriation clause, to which
your Majesty has referred, is a sufficient proof that, if
a strong opinion should prevail either in the Lords or

HOME AFFAIRS 327
Commons that the objections which have occurred to
your Majesty are good and vahd, and that the measure
cannot be entertained without prejudice or injury to
the Estabhshed Church, there is little chance of its
being presented to your Majesty for your ultimate con
stitutional sanction. If, on the other hand, the opposite
view should prevail, and it should be thought, after full
enquiry and discussion, that the scheme is prudent and
wise and compatible with the safety of the religious
institutions of the country, your Majesty will naturally
feel yourself justified in concurring with the two Houses
of Parliament upon the subject.
Viscount Melbourne believes the Established Church
to be weU and firmly fixed in the feelings and affections
of the majority of the people of this country, and he is
confident that aU attempts to shake its stability will
prove fruitless and unavailing ; but Viscount Melbourne
is fully persuaded that neither the ministers of the-
Church nor the friends of the Church can take a more
imprudent and dangerous step than that of standing
upon the present claim of Church rates.
The King The King has received Viscount Melbourne's
Melbom-ne. ^ttor of ycstcrday, in reply to his communica-
FebraM^Jr' tion upon the scheme for the abolition of Church
14,1837. rates, from which his Majesty rejoices to learn
that Viscount Melbourne admits that he has entered
with fairness and candour into the subject. The King,
however, desires that it may be clearly understood that,
in stating his sentiments and the objections which he
entertains, on principle, to the proposed measure, he
had not the least intention of withholding his assent to
the introduction of the BiU for the consideration of Ear
hament, or of interfering with the constitutional course

328 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
which is pursued with respect to this and other ques
tions to which his Government may feel it to be their
duty to call the attention of the legislature, sensible as
he is that they must undergo the mature deliberation
and discussion of both Houses of Earhament before
they can be submitted for his Majesty's ultimate sanc
tion. The King may have his own opinions upon the
subject, and he deems it his duty to communicate them
to Viscount Melbourne for such consideration as he
and his coUeagues may be disposed to give to them
before they finally commit themselves.
Lord Mel- ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble duty
bourne to -n zr • n i
the King, to your Majesty, and begs respectfully to ac-
street, quaiut your Majesty that your Majesty's sugges-
February . i i /» i n i • ¦
17, 1837. tions upon the proposed plan for the abolition
of Church rates have been carefully and attentively con-
. sidered by your Majesty's confidential servants. The
accompanying memorandum and supplementary re
marks, which have been drawn up by Mr. Eice, who
has charged himself with the duty of proposing the BiU
to the House of Commons, will fully lay before your
Majesty the reasons upon which, notwithstanding they
feel the force of some of your Majesty^'s observations,
and are deeply sensible of the kind spirit and gracious
manner in which those observations are made, your
Majesty's servants still think that, amidst difficulties, it
is the most prudent course to persevere in the measure
which they have advised. They do not, of course,
pledge themselves to adhere obstinately to aU the
details of the plan which has been submitted to your
Majesty. They are conscious that many of them may
possibly require alteration, and they are of course
prepared to admit any changes which may be found

HOME AFFAIRS 329
upon discussion to be required by reason and jus
tice. Viscount Melbourne will not conceal from your
Majesty his own individual opinion that this question is
sweUed by the eagerness of the confiicting parties and
the love of public discussion which prevails into an
importance far beyond that which it really possesses.
It seems to Viscount Melbourne a small grievance for
the Dissenters to insist upon renouncing, and a small
privilege for the Church to be anxious to retain. With
this view Viscount Melbourne would not have been
unwilling to have left the present law as it stood, with
all its inconveniences, which are certainly many and
great, and may probably be increased ; but it was
thought that, after the admission which had been made
by the introduction of Lord Althorp's Bill of the neces
sity of some measure, that this course was no longer
left open either to this or to any other Ministry.
The same ViscouNT MELBOURNE, in obedionce to your
same. Majcsty's commaud, transmits copies of Mr.
Steet, Eice's memorandum and supplementary remarks
w,im^ upon the subject of Church rates. Viscount
Melbourne learns with great concern that your Majesty's
objections to the proposed measure remain unabat,ed
and in full force. Viscount Melbourne can only say,
in addition to what has been urged already by Mr. Eice
himself, that he conceives the arrangement calculated
in the highest degree to strengthen the Church esta-
blishment, by removing the great source of abuse and
scandal which has been found to exist in the present
mode of administering the landed property of the
Church. The principal and most effectual attacks, made
either upon the hierarchy generally or upon individual

330 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
bishops, have been founded upon their running their
lives, as it is popularly called, against those of the
lessees ; also their granting concurrent leases to the
members of their own family, and other secular prac
tices which have arisen naturally and unavoidably from
the weakness of human nature invested with such
powers and placed in such situations. This is one great
object attained.
Your Majesty is alarmed lest the general reasoning
applied to these rates should also be extended to tithe.
But a clear distinction has always been admitted to
exist between the two burdens upon property. The
tithe is a defined proportion of the produce which is
charged upon the land by the operation of the law
without the intervention or sanction of any individual
or body of persons whatever. The Church rate is im
posed by the vote of the ratepayers in vestry assembled.
They have a right to grant or to withhold it, and to
settle and determine its amount. This difference appears
to Viscount Melbourne to be so clear and distinct as to
render it impossible that the two payments should be
confounded, or that the arguments which apply to the
one should be held to affect the other.
With respect to the remark, that in case of the Crown
property the Crown was a consenting party, which is
not so with the Church, it is respectfully to be observed
that, the Crown being a single individual, the consent
was easily obtained and given. The dignitaries and
ministers of the Church are so numerous a body that
it would be hopeless to obtain from them a general
concurrence, and recent as weU as ancient experience
sufficiently teaches us that the assent of the bishops
would by no means secure that of the inferior clergy.
The Bill was not received with much enthusiasm. Mr.

HOME AFFAIRS 331
Denison wrote to Lord Melbourne in March : ' Of our majority
of 23 very many have spoken to me about the measure. No
one likes it. With a party cordial, and with their approval, a
majority of 28 may carry a measure as well as 100. But with
a party full of misgivings, and likely to split on many points,
a majority of 28 is a bad army to fight with.' Further, the
majority of the Ecclesiastical Commission declined to act while
the Bill was pending.' Lord JMelbourne and the Ministerial
members of the Commission wrote a vigorous protest, but they
were probably glad when the death of William IV., on June 20,
gave them a pretext for winding up what would have been a
barren session.
The Min- I HAVE already had the honour of acquainting
membera your Gracc that I havo received the letter of
Ecoiesi- the lOtli inst., signed by your Grace and others
Com- of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and I have
the Aroh-° HOW furthcr to inform your Grace that, having
cante?-° communicatcd that letter to those of my col-
D?^iiing leagues who are members of the Commission, I
Mareh 20, ^"1 autlioriscd by them to express to your Grace
^^^^' the concern with which they have received the
intimation of your Grace's intentions and sentiments.
As we fear that the decision communicated by your
Grace renders it useless to enter into any argument, we
content ourselves with observing that the passages cited
by your Grace from our second report declare the
opinion formed by the Commission upon the subject
before them in the circumstances in which they were
then placed, and with reference to the objects which
they had in view ; but that they were neither intended,
nor can they be expected, to influence the general
exercise of the discretion of the King's Government, nor
to restrain them from the introduction of such measures
as they may deem necessary or expedient.
' Life of Bishop Blomfield, chap. viii.

332 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
We have only further to remark that the statement
that ' the augmentation of small livings, and the more
adequate supply of the populous districts of the kingdom
with the means of religious instruction, is the most im
portant of all objects ' is an assumption of the point in
dispute. We repeat the assurance that we received the pro
test, both against the principle of the measure and the
manner of carrying it into effect, with great sorrow.
We also lament the determination announced to have
been taken by your Grace and the Commissioners, but
we owe it to ourselves to declare that in the aUega-
tions of the letter we have not been able to perceive
any sufficient reason or adequate justification for your
temporarily withdrawing yourselves from the perform
ance of duties which you have undertaken to execute,
and for suspending the operations of the important
commission with which you have been charged by his
Majesty. Your Grace and the other Commissioners, however,
are the sole masters of your own conduct, and we can
only acquiesce in a determination which at the same
time we deeply lament.

833

CHAETEE X
FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS
1835-1837
The King's interest in foreign affairs was great, and his
knowledge of them considerable. Hence it is not altogether
surprising that he should have been much offended when he
discovered that the Czar Nicholas had been consulted before
himself as to Lord Durham's mission to St. Petersburg. Lord
Palmerston had sounded the Czar as to the arrangement, in
order to prevent a repetition of the difficulty which had occurred
in the case of Stratford Canning, whom Nicholas refused to
receive. Viscount Melbourne presents his humble
Lord Mel- ^
bourne to duty to your Majesty, and has again to ex-
sonth ' press his deep concern at the tenor of the com-
June29, muuication which he has just received from
your Majesty.
Viscount Melbourne has already stated to your
Majesty the grounds and princij)les upon which both
Viscount Ealmerston and himself have acted in this
affair, and he much laments to find that the conduct
which they have pursued still meets with youf Majesty's
serious disapprobation.
Viscount Melbourne is very unfortunate in not being
able to perceive that it was made to appear that your
Majesty was a mere cipher, or that your consent must fol
low as a matter of course, provided that of the Emperor

334 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
of Eussia could be obtained ; stiU less is Viscount Meb
bourne aware that that consent was obtained by any
act of submission on the part of your Majesty's Govern
ment. It is Viscount Melbourne's duty to obey your
Majesty's commands in communicating, with great re
luctance, to Viscount Ealmerston your Majesty's letter,
dated the 28th inst., from Windsor Castle. But Viscount
Melbourne, in performing this act, must by no means be
considered as concurring in any censure of a Minister
with whom he has entirely agreed, or of an act to which
he has himself been a party.
Viscount Melbourne feels himself to labour under
the whole of that disapprobation which your Majesty is
pleased to express of the conduct of Viscount Ealmerston,
and Viscount Melbourne is grieved that he has incurred
your Majesty's displeasure ; but he owes it to himself to
declare that he does not feel himself to be either in
guilt or in error, but is firmly of opinion that in this
matter he has rendered no inconsiderable service to
your Majesty by proper and justifiable means.
A still more serious divergence of opinion occurred on tie
occasion of Sir Charles Grey's being appointed a member of the
Canadian Commission. He was told by the King that Canada
had been won by the sword, and that it was his duty to maintain
the prerogative of the Crown, ' of which persons who ought to
have known better have dared, even in my presence, to deny the
existence.' The person who ought to have hnown better was
the hapless Secretary for the Colonies.^
Draft of a YouR Majcsty's confidential servants, having
Eemon-"^^ taken into their consideration a letter addressed
iSTxing" to Lord Glenelg, signed by Sir Herbert Taylor,
but'pra^-'^' ^^S your Majesty to be assured of their sincere
' Greville, iii. pp. 271, 272, 276.

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 335
babiyof and dutiful obedience to your Mai esty's wishes,
July2or3, -, ^t ^ , . ,^ . ,
1835.) and they trust that m your Majesty s communi
cations with them, individually and collectively, your
Majesty has never found them wanting in that respectful
attention to your Majesty's opinions which your Majesty
has a right to expect and to command. It was, therefore,
with the most painful feelings of concern that they per
ceived in the observations which your Majesty addressed
to Sir Charles Grey on his being sworn a member of the
Erivy Council expressions which might be understood
to be directed against opinions submitted to your Ma
jesty by some of your Majesty's confidential servants,
and which they have since learned from Sir Herbert
Taylor's letter were intended to apply to Lord Glenelg.
They feel themselves bound, therefore, in all humility,
to submit to your Majesty's candid consideration the
serious inconvenience which may thus be occasioned.
They cannot but feel a lively apprehension lest a
censure passed in such a place upon a Minister for
opinions expressed to your Majesty in your closet
should have the effect of hereafter restraining the free
dom of that advice which it is the duty of every one of
your Majesty's confidential servants to offer to your
Majesty without reserve ; and they cannot refrain from
expressing their regret, if anything had occurred in your
Majesty's communications with the Minister in question
which appeared to your Majesty to call for a manifesta
tion of your royal displeasure, that an opportunity was
not given him to remove, by such explanation as it
might have been in his power to offer, the unfavourable
impression made upon your Majesty's mind.
They also feel great alarm lest your Majesty's dis
approbation, declared in the presence of your Erivy
Council and of the officers of State present on that

336 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
occasion, and addressed to an individual about to depart
on an important commission in your Majesty's service,
should tend to weaken the authority of your Majesty's
Government by conveying the impression that with re
spect to the difficult duties which that individual was
called upon to discharge, your Majesty's opinions are
not in accordance with those of your confidential
advisers. They venture, therefore, with great deference to
submit to your Majesty whether it be politicaUy or
constitutionally expedient that verbal disclosures, not
previously intimated to any Minister, and for which,
therefore, no Minister can be responsible, should be
given by your Majesty ; seeing that such directions may
conflict, . or be construed to conflict, with the written
instructions issued by your Majesty after fuU considera
tion through your Secretary of State, which constitute
the only rule by which those who are entrusted with
the management of your Majesty's affairs ought to
regulate their conduct.
It only remains for them to repeat that it is with
the deepest sorrow that they have felt themselves com
peUed to lay these matters before your Majesty, and
humbly to request for this representation your Majesty's
favourable and candid consideration. They derive, how
ever, some consolation from the consciousness, of which
they beg leave to assure your Majesty, that they are
wholly actuated by their attachment to your Majesty's
person, by their devotion to your Majesty's interests,
and by their anxiety to maintain the principles and
practice of the constitution, and to secure the due and
efficient execution of your Majesty's service.
The following is Lord Palmerston's view of the European
situation at the time : —

FOREIGN* AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 337
To Lord I HAVE just reccivcd this from the King, and
Sh"™^' perhaps you will speak to him about it to-
1836. morrow. My own opinion you well know, and
that opinion has certainly not been shaken by the pro
gress of events. Every day brings fresh proofs of the
complete union of the three powers on every question
of European policy,^ and affords additional evidence
that they are for the present what they told us three
years ago they must be considered — namely, a unity.
Here is Austria setting at defiance the keen sympathy
which her Galician, Hungarian, and Transylvanian
subjects have openly manifested for the Eoles, and
making herself the tool to execute a measure of Eussian
vengeance, in which she herself has no interest what
ever, or, rather, with respect to which her interests are
directly at variance with those of Eussia.^ Her motive
is obvious. She found Eussia determined to execute the
measure ; she knew the consequences of a Eussian
occupation, and to avert that evil she chose rather to
encounter the unpopularity of the act and to perform
it herself. But this is a fresh proof that in the present
state of things we must not look to Metternich for any
co-operation in measures destined to hold Eussia* in
check. He wiU edge away to us and Erance if we and
France boldly take up our own ground ; but he will
not and cannot join us in the first instance.
The answer, then, which Austria will infallibly make
you will be that we all wish the same thing, and that
therefore we ought all to concert as to the best means
of obtaining our common object. That for this pur
pose we must estabhsh a conference at some central
place ; and Vienna wiU be proposed, as best suited for
' Austria, Russia, and Prussia.
" The occupation of Cracow. See the next letter. Z

338 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
speedy communication with Eetersburg, Constantinople,
Berlin, Earis, and London. Are we to accept such an
offer or to decline it ? If we accept it, we enter into
a labyrinth of negotiations out of which I see no
clue. England and France will be in the minority. "We
were so about Belgium ; but in that case the negotia
tion was in London, and the weight of a government on
the spot speaking through its plenipotentiarj^ gave that
plenipotentiary double authority ; while, also, England
and France, being the two powers the closest to Beb
gium, had on that account the greatest means of action
in the country which was the subject of negotiation.
The reverse of all this would happen with respect to
the Vienna conference, and we should be dragged along
by the three against our opinions, or else compelled to
withdraw. But a conference broken up by disagree
ment does not leave the parties upon the same terms
on which it found them at its commencement, and
Europe would in such a case be still more divided into
two camps than it is now.
But say that we should refuse the proposed con
ference. What reason could we assign for doing so
that would not be offensive to some of the parties con
cerned ? Why invite Austria, and decline to concert
with Eussia and Frussia ? Is that not plainly declaring
that we trust the former and distrust the latter ? And
is not such a declaration, thus publicly made, affronting
to the two latter powers ? If you had a fair chance of,
detaching Austria from them by the offer, weU and
good ; but we may be quite sure we shall do no such'
thing. We should, therefore, needlessly and unprofitably
offend Eussia and Frussia, be represented as having
been baffled and repulsed in an attempt to separate
Austria from her allies, and then, when England and

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 339
France came to sign their treaty, after having failed
in their overture to Austria, that treaty would bear the
character of a proceeding arising out of an ascertained
difference with the three powers ; whereas, if you begin
with such a treaty and ask the others to accede to it,
beginning with Austria, your proceeding bears the
character only of a foundation upon which you hoped
to build a subsequent concert with other powers.
The division of Europe into two camps, as Ancillon ^
calls it, to which you so much object, is the result of
events beyond our control, and is the consequence of
the French Eevolution of July. The three powers
fancy their interests lie in a direction opposite to that
in which we and France conceive ours to be placed.
The separation is not one of words, but of things ; not
the effect of caprice or of will, but produced by the force
of occurrences. The three and the two think differ
ently, and therefore they act differently, whether it be
as to Belgium or Eortugal or Spain.
This separation cannot really cease till all the ques
tions to which it applies are decided — ^just as it is
impossible to make a coalition ministry while there are
questions pending in which public men disagree. But
when Ancillon and Metternich complain of this division
of Europe into two camps, that which they really com
plain of is, not the existence of two camps, but the
equality of the two camps. The plain English of it is
that they want to have England on their side against
France, that they may dictate to France, as they did in
1814 and 181-5 ; and they are provoked beyond mea
sure at the steady protection which France has derived
from us. But it is that protection which has preserved
^ The Prussian Minister for Foreign Affairs.

340 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the peace of Europe. Without it there would long ago
have been a general war.
To avoid an expression of Lord Palmerston's indignation,
the Austrian Ambassador was directed to communicate the in
telligence of the occupation of Cracow to the Prime Minister ;
but it need hardly be said that Lord Melbourne would not be a
party to any negotiations behind Lord Palmerston's back.
I FEEL much concerned that the indisposition
Lord Mel- . . ^
bourne to uudcr wliich I havo been suffering has for so
Baron . -i n •
Humme- loug a time prevented me from replying to
South your letters of the 19th and 21st inst. with their
street, "^ . .
May 29, respectivc enclosures. My uneasiness, how
ever, is much mitigated by the confident ex
pectation which I entertain that both the Erince Chan
cellor and 5'ourself will feel satisfied that nothing but
necessity would have compelled me to delay paying to
any communications of his Highness, and more par
ticularly to communications of such importance, the
most prompt, immediate, and respectful attention.
With respect to your letter of the 19th and the
copies of the despatches which it encloses, as they have
been in the usual and established course of business
communicated to the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, I have only to assure your Excellency that I
shall be most hajDpy to converse upon the contents of
those documents at any time which may suit your
Excellency's convenience.
With respect to the two despatches contained in
your letter of the 21st, it appears that a different course
has been prescribed to its Minister by the Austrian
Cabinet, and that y^ou have been directed to lay these
representations in the first instance before me as the
first Minister of the Crown, without communicating
them to that Minister to whose department the affairs of

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 341
which they treat especially belong. It is repeated in
your letters that this communication is made to me
personally, and in consequence of the confidence which
the Erince ChanceUor is pleased to do me the honour
of reposing in me. In the situation which I have the
honour to fiU I cannot receive a personal communication
from a foreign government on a public matter ; I could
only consider such communication as made to me in
my capacity of first Minister of the Crown, and in that
capacity I should deem it my duty to make it known
to the King and to my colleagues. The forms of
the English government have marked out the Secre
tary of State for Foreign Affairs as the Minister to
whom aU correspondence from foreign powers ought
to be addressed ; and I need not recall to the recoUec
tion of an individual of your practice in affairs, still less
to the recoUection of those eminent and experienced
persons under whom y^ou act, the great and harmful
inconveniences which are certain to be produced by^ an
unnecessary departure from long-established usages
and forms. I feel a stiU further difficulty on the present
occasion because, whilst on the one hand I could not
withhold these documents from the knowledge of my
coUeagues, there are on the other expressions, both in
your letters and those of the Erince Chancellor, which
seem to imply that it was not his intention that they
should be so communicated.
Assuring y^ou, then, of my willingness and anxiety
to converse with you upon aU public cjuestions, and to
afford to your Government upon all matters which
interest it as full explanations as are not incompatible
with the honour and dignity of the Crown of Great
Britain, I think the best course which I can pursue
upon the present occasion is, with these observations,

342 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to replace respectfully in y^our hands the two despatches
enclosed in y^our letter of the 21st inst., leaving it to your
iudgment to take such further steps with regard to
them as you may think most conformable to the inten
tions of your Government.
Meanwhile the situation in the East was critical. Mehemet
Ali, who had only been prevented by Eussian intervention from
attacking Constantinople in 1833, was again menacing the
I'orte, and the dissolution of the Turkish Empire seemed im
minent. Sir Frederick Lamb was therefore directed by the
Government to sound the Duke of Wellington on the measures
necessary to be taken for the prevention of hostilities. In an
able manner he discussed the questions at issue.
(1) Was any treaty for the defence of the Porte advisable ?
(2) Should the attempt to frame one be made in the first
instance by the five powers, or be confined to England and
France ?
The second question could not be answered without reference
to the further consideration whether, in case the attempt to form
a general treaty should fail, we should stand better with a
separate treaty with France, or as we were.
The Duke's reply, which gives us the whole Eastern question
in a nutshell, is written in his fine bold hand, without a single
erasure and hardly a single additional word : —
The Duke ^ RECEIVED ycstcrday your letter of the 4:th, and
toiTtfsif """as much flattered by Lord Melbourne's confi-
Lamb™'' dcncc. Hc docs me justice in believing that I
stTOthfleia- ^™ quite ready to assist the Government of the
March 6 couutry wlicnever it may be deemed to he in
1830. ^jj power. I am aware that nobody can pre- •
tend to act entirely alone ; and I doubted whether I
should open your paper, and in fact did not open it till
this morning. But I felt that it was expected that I
might think proper not to give an opinion when I should
consider the question ; and that in that case I was at
liberty to return the paper. I therefore considered it

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 343
most consistent with my views and practice to peruse
what you had sent me ; and I am happy to be able to
return you an immediate answer. Of course I shaU say
nothing upon the subject to anybody at any time.
The treaty proposed is one for the protection of the
Ottoman Government against an unprovoked attack,
from whatever quarter it might come. It is to be com
municated to the Forte, and to Austria ^ with an invita
tion to accede to it.
I wiU discuss presently the chance of the accession
of Austria. But in respect of the Forte, I am afraid
that it would be found that a treaty for its protection
must be one of interference in all its concerns. I be
lieve that in general defensive treaties, as they are called,
between a strong Eower on the one part and a weak
Bower on the other have been found to be treaties of
protection ; and that they do and must lead to inter
ference on the part of the strong Eower in every act of
the government of the weak Eower in relation to other
Bowers. If such interference should not take place the
question of peace or war would not be in the hands of
the strong Eower, the one which would have to incur
the greatest risks, and nearly the whole burthen of the
charges. If this view of the inconvenience of attending such
a treaty in relation to any of the smaller Bowers of
Europe is correct, how much more would the same in
convenience be felt in relation to a treaty of protection
of the Ottoman Government ! Look at the nature of
the government, its ordinary acts and operations, its
relations with its vassals and tributaries, its treaties
^ The Duke apparently regarded the governments uf Austria and
Prussia as identical, and so, mdeed, they were diuiirg the Metternich
regime.

344 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
with its neighbours, most particularly with its powerful
neighbour,^ and the nature of the stipulations of those
treaties, which in fact gave to Eussia a right to inter
fere in nearly every question that comes to be decided
by the Ottoman Government, whether with vassals, its
tributaries, its Christian subjects, and, I believe I may
add, with foreign Bowers. It would be impossible to
introduce England and France, and the Earhament of
England and the Legislature of France, into these ques
tions. The treaty of protection, then, would be of no
avail to the Ottoman Forte ; or it must lead as certainly
to war, as a treaty offensive and defensive with the same
Eower would. I quite concur in the opinion that the
preservation of the Ottoman Government is much more
important to this country than it is to France. It is,
in truth, essential to so many of our vital interests, and
is so well known to be so, that it is a point of honour.
For that reason I would much prefer to consider it a
British object in the existing state of the world to
making it the object of a stipulation with France. It
is true that the risk is increased, that the aid of France
might not be offered at the time at which it might be
most necessary, and that France might oppose our
operations. But it is quite certain that France could
no't prevent it if the Ottoman Forte should desire it,
and I would much prefer to incur the risk of the con
sequences of such a state of things to incurring the
greater risks which might result from the proposed
treaty.^ You must know better than I do what the Aus
trians would say to the invitation to accede to the
' Especially the Treaty of Hunkiar Skelessi (July 8, 1833), by which
the Black Sea had been converted into a Russian lake.
^ Prance would have liked to oppose our operations in aid of the Porte
in 1840, but dared not do so.

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 316
treaty.^ Although I don't think the apprehension of
revolutionary movements is so hvely in Germany at
present as it was some years ago, that of revolutionary
pohcy is as prevalent as ever it was. I think that Erince
.Metternich would not approve of this proposed alhance
of protection. He would not accept the invitation to
accede, and would not make the proposition to Frussia.
He is not yet so secure in his position in Europe as to
be able to take a course which should separate him at
once and entirely from the Emperor of Eussia.
We must not conceal from ourselves that the treaty
of protection of the Forte would be considered, and
indeed is in fact, a treaty of offensive alliance against
Eussia, be its form what it may. Eussia is the only
Fower excepting England and France that can injure
the Forte. It is with Eussia alone that the Ottoman
Government has questions of interest. That govern
ment is now under the protection of Eussia ; and the
object of the treaty would be to substitute the protec
tion of England and France for that of Eussia. Metter
nich would see clearly that this substitution could not
be made without war ; and I think that in a war between
the maritime Fowers and Eussia there can be no doubt
that Austria would take the part of the latter.
This view of the case gives an answer to another
question discussed in your paper, viz. whether Eussia
would be disposed to agree to a general guarantee of
the Ottoman Eower. It is difficult to say in what way
Eussia would get rid of this proposition, and I am not
informed of the detail of affairs at the present moment.
But it is certain that Eussia has now the control over
the Ottoman Government, and that it cannot be sup
posed that the Emperor will, or that he can, lessen his
' Sir Frederick Lamb was now British Minister at Vienna.

316 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
hold of it as long as he is not obliged by^ force to give
it up. The question, then, comes to this : Are these affairs
to remain in their existing state? I am afraid that
there is no remedy but time ; and the steady adherence
to a friendly and protecting policy towards the Otto
man Forte by the King's Government. I entertain no
doubt that the present or any Viceroy of Egypt must
do whatever the British Government may think proper
to order. We must not encourage or protect the in
justice of the Ottoman Government towards Mahomet
Ali or towards any other tributary. But We ought to
f;ountenance its just rights and authority^, to discoun
tenance their disobedience and opposition, particularly
iu arms, and above all their relations and intrigues with
foreign Bowers. By these measures we should re-esta
blish confidence in our intentions at the Forte; and
when the period of the expiration of the defensive
treaty with Eussia will arrive we may hope to prevent
its being renewed. The signal of dependence on the
one part and protection on the other will thus be re
moved. Time may put an end to the reality.
In this discussion of these questions I believe I have
adverted to all the points of your paper.
It is desirable for every government not to fail in
carrying a proposition which it may make to a foreign
Power. I cannot doubt that Eussia will not, cannot, con
cede its supremacy at Constantinople, nor agree to any
general guarantee. At all events the proposition for
such a one ought not to proceed from England or from
France, or from an alliance of England and France. I
have stated my^ reason for thinking that the working of
such an alliance would be impracticable to produce any
thing excej)t immediate war. The war would probably

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 347
be general. It would involve the whole of Europe ; and
if by accident the councils of the Ottoman Forte should
not see clearly the road to their own independence and
salvation b}' placing themselves under the protection of
England and France, it might happen that the result of
the treaty and of the war would be to estabhsh more
firmly than ever the dependence of the Ottoman Forte
upon Eussia.
It reaUy appears to me, upon the whole, that the
measure proposed is one of great risk, with httle pro
spect of advantage.
I think that the best thins; to do with this letter
and your papers is to put them under cover to Lord
Melbourne. They could not go to my home in London
ill less than four covers, which might attract more
attention than one directed to him.

Lord Mel- ^ J^ST loam froiii the Foreign Office that there
sh^Frede- ^^ ^ iiiesseiiger going this evening to Vienna,
Dotnin?*^' ^^^^ I *^k® t'-^^^ opportunity of writing a line.
juf^is ^ ^^'"^^ very ill soon after you left London, quite
i«36. down with fever and loss of appetite ; and though
I am quite recovered I cannot say I feel myself as I
was before. Halford says I am not the same, and
altogether I am inclined to be low and weak. The fact
is, I want some rest and freedom from anxiety. I shall
be very glad of it, but do not see much prospect. I
shall be anxious to hear from you how you find
the land lying at Vienna, and if you find Metternich
there. There appears to me to have been lately a sort
of ill-humour about his communications, certainly dis-
proportioned to the occasion, and a tone of haughtiness
and imperiousness which, considering the relative rela
tion of the countries, is to a degree ridiculous. He

848 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
writes as if he had thirty sail of the line cruising in the
Baltic ; while the tone of Eussia, on the other hand
is in the highest degree moderate and conciliatory.
Ancillon also vapours much, and altogether they lay a
stress upon this affair of Cracow which appears to me
to be disproportionate and unaccountable. If their
case is true, it would have been much better if we had
had a consul there, who would have given us a true
account, and one upon which we should have rehed,
which we never shall do upon  's ^ assertion. The
evil of this tone is — and this you may impress upon
Metternich — that whilst it does not affect the minister
against whom it is leveUed, it does very much excite
and irritate the King, who attributes it all to Eussia,
and considers that it is done on her part to put for
ward the Cabinets of Berlin and Vienna in order to see
how much bile will accumulate, while she remains in
the background ready to take any advantage that may
offer. We all wish for peace, but Metternich should
remember that, whatever should be the disposition of
other kings, kings of England like war, which they
wage in comparative security, and which offers to them
nothing but pleasurable excitement, and commands
and promotions to give and to make. We understand
from Earis that the dismissal of the Eeis Effendi has
made a very unfavourable impression, according to
Thiers, at Vienna. Sebastiani ^ told me before he went
that Metternich's humour was entirely owing to the
change in his situation at home, and the different degree
of 2Dower which he now has compared with that which
he had before the Emperor's death.
' Apparently the words here are ' Mr. A's.'
^ Sebastiani was French Ambassador to the Court of St. James from
1835 to 1840.

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 349
Meanwhile the King continued to be firm about Canada,
declining to sanction the alienation of the Crown lands, or the
introduction of the elective principle into the Constitution of
Lower Canada. However, in the year after the appointment of
Lord Gosford as Governor of the Province, popular indignation
rose to such a height that Lord Glenelg was compelled to send
off a supplementary despatch declaring that the Commissioners
had full power to en(juire into every subject connected with the
colony and its government.' The King's consent was, however,
not given until after several refusals.
The King The Kiiig liaviiig had a long conversation with
Melbourne. Lord Glcuelg tliis day on the subject of an
Windsor , "^^ _, "'
Castle, additional despatch to the Earl of Gosford, to
1836. ' which his Majesty has refused his consent, and
being informed by Lord Glenelg that it is the intention
of Viscount Melbourne to enter on the subject of Canada
with the King to-morrow, conceives the moment is now
arrived to explain to his confidential servants his de
termination 2iVLd. fixed resolution never to permit any des
patch to be sent to his Majesty's representative in Canada
or any other colony holding an aUegiance to Great
Britain that can for a moment hold out the most distant
idea of the King ever permitting the question to be en
tertained by his Majesty's confidential servants of a most
remote bearing relative to an}- change in the manner of
the appointment in the King's Councils in the numerous
colonies. His Majesty is persuaded that the maintenance of
this just prerogative in the hands of the Crown is the
¦ On the appointment of Lord Gosford in 1835, a few days after his
speech to Sir Charles Grey, the King said : ' Mind what you are about in
Canada. By God, I will never consent to alienate the Crown lands, nor
to make the Council elective. Mind me, my Lord, the Cabinet is not
my Cabinet ; they had better take care, or, by God, I will have them im
peached.'  Hobhouse's ' Recollections ' in the Edinburgh Bevietv, vol.

350 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPEKS
safeguard for the preservation of the wise and happy
connection between the mother country and the colonies
which it is both the duty and the inclination of the King
to maintain. His Majesty cannot conclude without remarking that
this prerogative thus exercised by the Crown has ever
existed since Great Britain has been in possession of
colonies, and never before has been called in question.
On June 9 Sir H. Taylor writes further : —
His Majesty, indeed, laments the occurrence of any
difficulty in consequence of his withholding his sanction,
but his objection is not a fanciful or inconsiderate one;
it is founded on conviction and on principle which he
cannot abandon, and he considers it his duty to concur
with those who hold the same opinion in the mainten
ance of it. He objects on principle, and upon what he
considers sound constitutional grounds, to the adoption
of the elective principle in the constitution of the legis
lative councils in colonies, and he is satisfied that he is
fulfilling the obligations of his high station by resisting
the attempt to introduce what he views as organic
changes. There can be no modification of this question, nor
any hope held out of concession which would not .
produce further pretensions. The end of the question
must be consent or refusal, and his Majesty deems him- _
self bound to persist in the latter alternative.
To the remainder of the instruction which has been
prepared he does not object, provided that the points
which he had struck out be excluded.
The assistance given to the Constitutional cause in Spam
against the Carlists, under the Quadruple Treaty of 1834, was
hardly effective. Actual intervention was declined both by

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFF.MRS 351
France and England, but as a compromise British subjects were
allowed to enlist in the Spanish Legion. Underpaid and half-
starved, the British contingent did little, and the war dragged
on. Its progress was marked by incidents that were a disgrace
to civilisation.
Lord Mel- ViscouNT MELBOURNE presents his humble dutv
bourne to -^ J
the King, to your Majesty, and laments to find that the
South 1 • 1 -TT-
Street, letter which Viscount Melbourne did himself
1836. ' the honour of addressing to your Majest}- 3'es-
terday, has made the impression upon y^our Majesty's
mind which your Majesty describes.
Viscount Melbourne, however, consoles himself with
the reflection that either some misapprehension has
taken place with respect to the meaning and import of
that letter, or, which is far more likely, that Viscount
Melbourne expressed himself obscurely and iniijer-
fectly. Viscount Melbourne never intended to convey any
thing resembling indifference upon the violent and
sanguinary events which have lately taken place in
Spain. Viscount Melbourne deeply laments and greatly
condemns them in themselves, and without going back
to former times, with respect to which there is much
controversy and much well-founded difference of
opinion, the recent experience of the y^ear 1830 has
taught him what a serious effect revolutions of this
character and nature may produce upon the tranquillity
of neighbouring nations.
Viscount Melbourne, however, greatly rejoices to
collect from the paragraph of your Majestj-'s letter
which conveys that ' it is by no means your Majesty's
wish or intention to withdraw your countenance or
protection from the Eegent of Spain, or her infant
charge,' that there exists no difference of opinion

352 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
leading to any practical result. Viscount Melbourne
had not thought that the proposed note would have the
effect of connecting your Majesty with the proceedings
and prospects of a revolutionary government, or Vis
count Melbourne would never have been a party to
submitting it to your Majesty.
Viscount Melbourne has not lost sight of the course
pursued by the French Government to which your
Majesty has directed Viscount Melbourne's attention.
The French Government have, suspended for the present
the additional measures of co-operation which they
were about to adopt, but have not withdrawn any
assistance which they had before given ; and Viscount
Melbourne cannot help observing that your Majesty has
hitherto viewed the whole of the policy pursued by the
King of France towards Spain with great suspicion and
distrust.^ With respect to what may hereafter take place in
Spain upon the meeting of the Cortes, Viscount Meb
bourne does not presume to hazard any prediction.
Viscount Melbourne does not conceive himself to have
stated in his former letter that it was inexpedient that
your Majesty's Government should pause and dehberate
before they determined to persevere in the course they
had previously adopted. On the contrary, this is the
course which Viscount Melbourne intended to recom
mend — to stand where we are, not to be heated with
indignation, not to be bewildered with fear, to take a
calm view of what has taken place, to wait for the
events which are to come, and to form our judgment
' In which the King was thoroughly justified. France showed an
increasing disposition to sympathise with the Carlists, and in the foUow
ing year tlie auxiliary force, which had been garrisonsd on the Spanish
frontier, was withdrawn.

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 363
upon the whole matter dispassionately, with a view to
the preservation of peace in Europe, and to the promo
tion of the interests of Great Britain.
t^tC^^ Viscount Melbourne sees in the newspapers
same tlio accouut of the dissolution of the French
South -Mr- •
street, Miiiistry.^ Tliis event renders the affairs of
August 27, _ . .
1836. bpam stiU more complicated and difficult.
Viscount Melbourne will only venture to suggest as
a general principle that when a nation is in the state of
the Spaniards the sudden withdrawing of the coun
tenance of other Powers tends to streng-then the more
violent and desperate party, and to increase and exas
perate the evils which are taking place. It deprives
the nation of hope, and drives it to despair. It is cer
tain that the determination of the foreign ministers to
remain at Earis in July 1830 — a determination which
is mainly to be attributed to Count Eozzo di Borgo ^ —
caused a much more moderate course to be adopted
than probably would have been otherwise pursued, and,
it is reasonable to suppose, saved Europe from a war
which might have been either long or short, but which
would have been pregnant with hazard and danger.
The King in a long letter, dated November 7, 1836, draws
Lord Melbourne's attention to the state of France, and states his
apprehensions ' that France may become ere long the theatre of
.another frightful revolution, in which a large and ill-disposed army
would probably take a principal share, of which the object would
be the overturn of the existing Monarchy and the support of
rival pretensions, either Carlist^ or Bonapartist, or the establish-
' The Due de Broglie and Guizot retired, and a new Ministry was
formed under Thiers.
' The witty Corsicau, who entered the service of Russia in 1803, and
was the leading diplomatist of the Czar imtil his death, in 1842.
5 That is, Legitimist. A A

354 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
ment of a Republican form of government or of military des
potism, all or either producing a struggle between contendino'
parties, and great disorder.' He did not think that the rgvolu-
tionary spirit would extend to this country, nr even to Ireland,
unless it should be ' produced by a foreign war in which this
country should be engaged, and promoted by external aid.' But
with regard to the foreign policy of England some decision
should be taken. The struggle could hardlyfail to be European.
He thought that an attitude of strict neutrality should be
preserved; avoiding an alliance either with Republicanism or
" Absolutism. He thought that Russia would have to be careful! v
watched, as she would probably take the opportunity to ' pursue
her projects eastward, with the hope that the attentions of others
woald be absorbed in the great continental struggle.'
Lord Upon my arrival in London late on Monday
Melbourne . -^ „ -, , „,_,.
to Sir evening, i found your letter oi the / tli instant,
Taylor! written by his Majest}''s command, and sane-
street, tioned by his Majesty's signature. The prin-
lotTs'se.^'' ciples laid down appear to me to be just, the
objects right, and the ojjinions, as far as opinions can
be formed upon future and contingent events, perhaps
too likely to be realised. At the same time it must
be recollected that in human affairs a fearful storm
often appears to be impending and inevitable, and then.
the clouds on a sudden disperse of themselves, and if
they do burst they do so from a quarter and in a
direction exactly the reverse of that which had been
anticipated. So uncertain, indeed, is the course of
human events that it is almost impossible for us to
foresee them with an exactness sufficient to enable us
to do more than to lay down the most general rules for
the direction and guidance of our conduct in the cir
cumstances which may occur.
There •certainly appears to be much wild opinion,
much disposition to change, much in France that is

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFF.MRS 355
hostile to settled and established government ; and the
various elements of discord and dissension which exist
in Europe are well enumerated and weighed in the
letter which his Majesty has directed you to write. But
I trust that there is reason to hope that the principle of
stability is yet stronger than the principle of distur
bance, and that the experience of past evils and pre
sent benefits wiU be sufficient to guard us against the
repetition of such scenes as clouded and disgraced
the termination of the last century^
If the contrary should unfortunately be the case,
and Europe should be again convulsed by wars and
revolutions, I agree that the policy of England should,
if possible, be to preserve her own peace and neutrality ;
but I own I have little hope that, if contests should
arise of any extent or duration, she would be long
able to do so. It is not in the nature of things that a
great, powerful, and leading country should long be able
to hold herself aloof from those contentions in whicli
her neighbours are engaged. It wiU not be for the
honour and interest of the Crown that Great Britain
should ally herself either with the spirit of general
revolution or of arbitrary government. But neither
will it be politic or prudent for her to take excep
tion to any form of government, despotic or repub-
hcan, which may be established in other countries.
These views are, I apprehend, in unison with his
Majesty's opinions ; they are very general, but it is im
possible to lay down more precisely the course to be
pursued, which must be determined by circumstances as
they arise, and by the events, the tempers, and the feeL
ings with which we may have to deal. His Majesty
remembers and understands, and remembers much
better than I do, all that led to the commencement of
A A 2

35G LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the French war in 1793. Eublic opinion was strong in
favour of that war. Those whose opinions were against
it were listened to with disregard or with impatience.
Now public opinion runs as blindly in the opposite
direction, and everything done at that time is considered
as the height of folly and injustice.
I will take care that the whole of your most im
portant and well-considered letter shall receive the
attention which it deserves.
Sir I HAVE had the honour to submit to the Kin jr
Herbert i -i • j
Taylor to y^our loi'dship s letter of the lOtli instant, and
Melbourne. I liavc reccivcd liis Majesty's commands to
Private. ., .¦,-,.¦,
Brighton, assure y^ou that he has derived great satis-
12, 1836. faction from the manner in Mdiich you have
entered into the general subject of his communication
of the 7 th instant, and that he has read with equal
interest your remarks upon it.
The King agrees with your lordship that the un
certain course of human events precludes the possibihty
of foreseeing them with an exactness sufficient to enable
us to do more than to lay down general rules apphcable
to the circumstances which may occur ; but he conceives
that passing events may justify surmises with respect to
the general nature of others which may arise out of
them, and that the timely consideration of the various
contingencies which may arise must produce the advan
tage of being better prepared for that prompt decision
which averts the mischief ever attending delay and
hesitation. The course of events may differ essentially
from that which has been anticipated and apprehended,
but the general state of Europe offers certain features
which cannot be mistaken, and which must have a
decided influ-ence upon the progress and the results of

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 357
any struggle which may arise ; and it is with reference
to these leading features that his Majesty was anxious
to caU your attention to the consideration of the prin
ciple which should guide the conduct of his govern
ment, although he admits that circumstances may occur
which could render impossible the strict or continued
adherence to any rule laid down for the direction and
guidance of its proceedings. The King sincerely hopes
that your ¦ lordship's opinion, that the principle of sta-
bilityr is yret stronger than the inclination to disturbance,
may prove weU-founded ; but he cannot help observing
that the experience of past evils has not preserved
Spain and Eortugal from the repeated renewal of dis
order, and that there have been many indications in
France and in Italy^ of a disposition which little accords
with the just appreciation of present benefits and of the
blessings of peace. The King decidedly concurs in
your sentiments that while it will not be for the interests
or honour of the Crown that Great Britain should ally
herself either with the spirit of general revolution or of
arbitrary" government, it wiU be neither politic nor pru
dent for her to take exception to any form of govern
ment, despotic or republican, which may be established
in other countries.
His Majesty agrees with y^on in the distinction which
you have drawn between the character and tendency of
public opinion in this country in 1793 and that which
seems to prevail at present, though he believes it would
now under any circumstances be in its effect passive
rather than active.
I HAVE the honour to receive and to submit to
The same ... f. -. ^t ,
to the the Kino- your lordship s fetter oi the oist uft. ;
same. ^ t . -, it. i
Private. and his Majesty has ortlered me to express the

358 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Brighton, satisfactiou with which he has read it, and to
1837. ' assure you of his cordial and unqualified assent
to the opinions which it conveys on the views, the
interests, and the policy of this country in its relations
with foreign states.
The King is persuaded, as you are, that jealousy of
the property and grandeur of this country is the domi
nant feeling of France, and of every state on the Conti
nent ; he considers it to have been shown at all times,
and on every occasion to have been ill-concealed by
those which needed our assistance for their preservation,
and when it was essential to them that we should possess
the means of affording effectual aid, and that it was
betrayed beyond the power of doubt so soon as that
necessity had been removed. Without seeking for more
remote instances, his Majesty would refer to the conduct
of Eortugal, or even of Spain, upon every question in
which British interests become the objects of considera
tion. His Majesty admits that experience in such a
feeling on their part is not calculated to encourage or
justify predilections towards them, and that we should
therefore be guided in our own proceedings with respect
to them hj circumstances and by consideration of what
is best suited to our interests ; always, however, bearing
in mind that, in transactions between states as between
individuals, ' honesty is the best policy.'
The difference in such transactions is that individuals
may, in the exercise of indulgence and liberality, assume
a latitude which would be inadmissible on the part of
governments, inasmuch as the leading principle of the
policy of any country must be strict attention to its own
interests. The King agrees with y^our lordship in considering
Louis Fhilippe sincere in his determination to avoid

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 369
interference, and he behoves him to be guided in this
respect by the conviction that intervention upon a large
scale (and it might not be easy to calculate its eventual
extent) would expose him to great inconvenience and
danger, and therefore to be influenced by a considera
tion of what is best suited to his own interests.
The only circumstance which might, in his Majesty's
opinion, produce a change in this determination would
be such a state of things in Spain as might offer a plau
sible plan for the occupation of some province, Cata
lonia for instance.
Although, therefore, his Majesty has ever felt de
sirous that France should give greater efficacy to the
stipulations of the Quadruple Treaty, he has not ceased
to condemn the earnestness with which Mr. Villiers^
has pressed for intervention, without reference to any
other than local contingencies and the circumstances of
the moment, and he has often remarked to Lord Eal
merston that Mr. Yilliers' zeal has outrun his discretion.
He appears to his Majesty to have been equally unfor
tunate in his estimates of the character of those who
have been successively^ placed at the head of the Queen
of Spain's councils, each having in turn been the object
of his confidence and admiration, and of his mistrust
and severe reprobation ; and this applies particularly to
Mr. Mendizabal.^
His Majesty is not surprised that Louis Fhilippe
should be unwiUing to commit himself further with
governments so incapable, so inefficient, so little con
sistent in principle, and almost invariably so ill-served
1 Afterwards Lord Clarendon, Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland. His correspondence as quoted by Greville (espe-
ciahy iii. 321, BOO, 305) hardly bears out the King's impression.
- Mendizabal, a Jew who had made his fortune in London, became
Prime Minister of Spain in 1835 (Bulwer's Palmerston, ii. 2'i'2 234).

360 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
as those which have figured in Spain, and he considers
that nothing but the conviction of the prejudice which
our interests would suffer from the success of Bon
Carlos could have justified the extent of the support
we have given to a government so constituted and so
administered. His Majesty rejoices to learn from Lord Granville's'
despatches that there is no probability of the French
Government guaranteeing a loan on the security of
Cuba, as anything producing the most indirect claim
on the part of France on that Spanish colony might
pave the way for ulterior designs, and involve this
country in a contest.
Nor, indeed, does a loan appear to offer to France,
even with that security, the same advantage as to
England, which would derive from it the oiUy chance
of ever recovering the value of the arms and other
supplies furnished to the Spaniards during the present
contest.

Tiie same ^ ^AVE Submitted to the King your lordship's
same'' Icttcr of ycstcrday, and the letter of Brince
jauSi*°"5 Metternich to Esterhazy, which I beg to return.
1837. jjjg Majesty agrees with you in pronouncing it,
like all his papers, oracular and obscure. He always
writes as if he meant to keep a loop-hole and to reserve
to himself the facility of contesting the assumed inter
pretation of what he has said, if a change of circum
stances or of views should raise the question.
Fie admits an identity of interest between Austria
and England on Eastern questions, and, this being
self-evident and generally acknowledged, he asks how
happens it that England has taken a course so opposed
' British Minister at Paris.

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS ,361
to that principle. But he applies this question to no
particular period. The ' divergence ' occurred in 1828-
1829, during the administration of Mr. Cannings and
may be ascribed to a classical predilection for the inde
pendence of Greece which equaUy engaged the romantic
feelings of France, while Eussia took advantage of it to
pursue, with the aid of both, her designs to reduce the
power and resources of the Forte.
Since that period we have professed to check the
supposed views of Eussia, or rather we have professed
our wish to do so ; and in the bickerings which have
taken place (for they cannot be said to have amounted
to more), the court of Vienna, or at least its represen
tative at Constantinople, has sided with Eussia rather
than with us. Eecently the policy of Austria may have
again become somewhat anti-Eussian in consequence
of the jealousy to which the increasing trade by the
Danube and Black Sea may give occasion, and it re
mains to be seen how far the identity of commercial inter
ests may prevail in re-establishing the political union.
Erince Metternich claims great credit for Austria in
not having interfered in the questions and contests
which have arisen in Spain and Eortugal ; but it may
be observed that he could not have done so, on the prin
ciple he maintains, which is opjoosed to that adopted
by England and France, without engaging in a general
contest.-' His Highness lays great stress upon the in
correctness and the danger of allowing the order of suc
cession in Spain to be changed by the will of Ferdinand
VII., but he overlooks the fact that this was not the
first change in that order of succession, and that Ferdi
nand VII. had a choice of precedents since the Treaty
' Metternich's Memoirs proved that if he had dared he would have
intervened in Spanish affau-s in favour of Don Carlos.

363 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
of Utrecht, without going back to the time of Ferdinand
and Isabella, or to the more remote periods of the
history of Spain when the Salic and the anti-Salic law
variously prevailed. I apprehend, therefore, that it was
open to the British Government to admit or to reject the
validity of the testament of Ferdinand VH., according
to its view and conviction of the leaning and inclination
of the great mass of the Spanish people, and its very
natural desire to take the course most calculated to se
cure the tranquillity of the Eeninsula and therefore also
best suited to the interests of the country ; and certainly
the state of things in Spain at the period of the pro
mulgation of the testament fully justifies the course
taken. But Erince Metternich and his friends of the Holy
Alliance may perhaps be disposed to ascribe the course
pursued to a predilection for the introduction and esta
blishment of constitutional government, and to argue
that if the government of the country had been Tory
when the case occurred the right of Don Carlos would
have been preferred to that of his infant niece.
To Lord The King has received Viscount Melbourne's
windX"^' 1^*^^^^ °f yesterday's date on the subject of the
ut^io proposed renewal of the Order in Council, which
i«3'^- ' suspends the operation of the Foreign Enhst-
nient Act with respect to those of his Majesty's sub
jects who may enter into the service of the Queen of
Spain, and his Majesty has given due consideration to
all that is urged therein in support of the advice ten
dered to him by his confidential servants, as he had
already given to what had been submitted to him ver
bally by Visc( unt Melbourne and Viscount Ealmerston.
The Kin"- is unwiUiii"r to embarrass his go^'erlmleut by

Iw -ItJ LIJJ. V> J.XX±±lj^

FOREIGN AND COLONIAL AFFAIRS 363
persisting in his opposition to a measure upon which
they lay so much stress, and to Mdiich they appear to
attach an almost paramount importance, as its adoption
or rejection may affect either the character and the con
sistency of his government, or the general course and
influence of its foreign policy ; but though his Maje.sty
may yield to this consideration, he cannot say that any
remarks made or arguments produced have succeeded
in removing the objections which he had stated, and
which he continues to feel, to the renewal of the Order
in Council, or to perseverance in the course which ex
perience has shown to be unavailing and to have been
productive of disappointment and ridicule, and of a
share in that disgrace which has attended the proceed
ings of the Queen of Spain's government under succes
sive administrations.
The King has to observe that the period of suspen
sion of the Foreign Enlistment Act was limited by the
Order in Council issued in 1835, and that he cannot
admit any breach of compact, or any retrogression from
engagements entered into, to be imputable to this coun
try for not renewing the Act, or for not extending the
j)eriod of an experiment which has tended so little to
the satisfaction and credit of the country, and so little
to the advantage or profit of the Queen of Spain's cause,
while it has offered ample proof of the inability or the
unwiUingness of the Spanish Government to perforin
its engagements towards those of his Majest3''s subjects
who have entered the service of the Queen of Spain, and
to do common justice to their claims. There would, in
the King's opinion, be sufficient reasons for not comply
ing with the application recently made by the Spanish
Government, and no other justification could be re
quired ; but his Majesty does not deny that lie contem-

364 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
plates with concern and impatience the manner in which
the honour and the credit of this country are committed
by the services and the proceedings of a band of mer
cenaries whom it is impossible to divest of the denomi
nation and character of British subjects and British
soldiers, while their conduct has been in many respects
disreputable and unworthy of that name and character.
Viscount Melbourne has observed that the measure
of which the revival is now proposed met, in the first
instance, with his Majesty's sanction and approbation.
He does not deny this ; but his objections to the manner
in which it was carried into effect, and to the choice of
the individual entrusted with its direction, were early
stated ; and the results have confirmed them. His re
luctance to continue or to revive that sanction arises,
therefore, from the failure of the measure to w^hich he
had consented, and not from any indisposition to pro
mote anything from which he may expect advantage or
credit to be derived. It applies to the existence of a
proved evil.
Having thus, in justice to himself, recorded his feeb
ings upon this subject, the King acquaints Viscount
Melbourne that he consents to the renewal of the Order
in Council for one year, but with the understanding
that the recruiting for the service of the Queen of Spain
should be limited to Ireland, and that those enhsted
may be, as far as possible, of the Eoman Cathohc per
suasion, it being obvious that recruits professing that
faith are much better suited to the service of the Queen
of Spain, and to the country in which they are to serve,
than Erotestants.'
1 The King withdrew this condition on the 21st, in answer to Lord
Melbourne's objections.

365

CFIAETEE XI
HOME AFFAIRS
1837-1841
The accession of Queen Victoria, greatly strengthened the position
of the Ministry. Had William IV. lived much longer it may
be doubted if the Whigs could have continued to condact affairs
in the face of the royal displeasure and the mischievous action
of the Tory majority in the House of Lords. It is true that the
general election did not result in any material alteration of the
balance of parties ; but it confirmed the Ministry in power, and
showed that the nation was willing to regard the Liberal
Ministry as fit guardians of the youthful sovereign. Hence the
Opposition was, for a while, less assiduous in its attacks. To
Lord Melbourne the change can hardly have been otherwise
than most welcome. He certainly spoke from his heart when
he described William IV. as ' a being of the most uncompro
mising and firmest honour that ever it pleased Divine Providence
to place upon the throne.' But he was now given an occupation
than which, as Greville rightly remarks, ' none was ever more
engrossing or involved greater responsibility,' and Greville
rightly emphasises the romantic side of the relationship when
he says : ' I have no doubt he is passionately fond of her, as he
might be of bis daughter if he had one, and the more because
he is a man with a capacity for loving without having anything
in the world to love.' It can hardly be doubted that if the
account of Lord Melbourne's stewardship were to be laid before
the world it would abundantly confirm the praise bestowed upon
him by all his contemporaries for the manner in which he played
his great part. But the time for such a publication has not
come • nor to tell the truth, are the materials to be found
among Lord Melbourne's papers, with the exception of the letter

36G LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
given below. It only remains to quote once more the Duke
of Wellington's testimony, which struck foreign observers as
being so admirably illustrative of the honour which prevails in
English public life ' : 'I am willing to admit that the noble
Viscount has rendered the greatest possible service to lier
Majesty. I happen to know that it is her Majesty's opinion
that the noble Viscount has rendered her Majesty the greatest
possible service, making her acquainted with the mode and
policy of the government of this country, initiating her into the
laws and spirit of the constitution, independently of the per
formance of his duty as the servant of her Majesty's Crown •
teaching her, in short, to preside over the destinies of this great
country.' To the Viscount Melbourne presents his humble duty
South' to your Majesty, and has the honour of sub-
june 23, flitting the letter which he has this morning
1837. received from Lord Lansdowne. Viscount
Melbourne, having obtained this answer on the part of
Lady Lansdowne, has now written to the Buchess of
Sutherland, and wiU lose no time in laying before your
Majesty her Grace's answer when he shaU receive it.^
Lord Melbourne has also seen Captain Spencer ,%ho
has this morning returned from Althorp, and Lord Meb
bourne is sorry to be obliged to add that he is unwilb
ing to accept the office which has been offered to him.
With the utmost duty and attachment to your Majesty,
Captain Sf)encer conceives that the duties are very
foreign from any in which he has ever been engaged,
and he is reluctant to undertake them from a feehng of
his incompetence to discharge them. Lord Melbourne
combated these oj^inions, and tried to reason Captain
Spencer out of them, but in vain.
' For instance, the German historian Von Raumer {England in ISJfl,
ii. 113). The Duke's speech was made on the resignation of the Whigs,
August 24, 1841.
^ The Duchess of Sutherland became Mistress of the Robes.
^ Lord Spencer's brother, and the father of the present Earl.

HOME AFFAIRS 367
Lord Melbourne trusts that your Majesty will not
feel either surprised or discouraged at the difficulties
which occur in making the arrangement, and which
Lord Melbourne's experience enables him to assure your
Majesty always do occur in transactions of this nature.
The persons who are the best fitted for offices are often
the most unwilling to undertake them, and those who
are least qualified, most eager to obtain them.
The appointment of y^our Majesty's Treasurer, and
of your ladies, is the most pressing, and Viscount Mel
bourne would earnestly recommend a serious and mature
consideration before the other parts of the household
are finally determined upon.
It will be convenient to 3"our Majesty if y'our Majesty
will return any letters in the boxes in Avliich the}' are
sent, as your Majesty will be much incommoded by
charging yourself with the custody of them.
The events of the remainder of the year do not call for any
particular remark as far as home affa^'rs are concerned. The
following letters are, perhaps, worth printing, as they show that
Lord Melbourne was able to hold his own with so formidable a
controversialist as Bishop Fhillpotts.

I HAVE this morning had the honour of receiv-
Meibourne ing your lordsliip's letter, to which I hasten to
Bishop of reply. It certainly was your lordship to whom
Downing I alludcd ill the debate on Monday night in the
No^veniber Housc of Lords. Indeed, I stated that I ad-
°'^^^'^' verted to a charge dehvered by a reverend
prelate to the clergy of the diocese of Exeter, which
could, of course, only be understood to designate your
Lordship. I did also affirm that no one of the numerous
and distinguished hidividuals who had animadverted
upon the expressions which I had employed in moving

368 LORD 'MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the Irish Tithe Bill in the year 1835 ^ had read the
whole of the paragraph or had given me the benefit of
the modifications and qualifications with which I had
guarded my propositions. This, I said, and stiU say,
was unfair ; but I deny that the charge of unfairness
either necessarily does, or was, intended upon the present
occasion to imply a charge of dishonesty. Bersons may
very easily be led to be unfair, and very frequently are
so, by motives and impulses— not of a dishonest cha
racter—by haste, by thoughtlessness, by inadvertence,
by prejudice, by passion.
It is possible that what I said may appear in the
report more bitter than it really was in the utterance.
This is not unfrequently the case, and vice versd. I did
not previously intend to have mentioned this subject,
and was only led to do so by Lord Eoden's producing
in his speech these much-cited phrases. AU I said was
that when so much stress was laid upon particular ex
pressions, and such serious conclusions were drawn from
them, fairness required that the whole passage in which
they were employed should be quoted. I was perfectly
aware that your lordship had left the House, and if I
had intended a charge of a serious nature I should not
have brought it forward in your lordship's absence.
I HAVE received your lordship's letter- of the
The same „,. . ¦ -, r- -i n
to the 2nd mst., which opens a wider field of argu-
same. it i • •
Downing iiieiit aiid disputc than it is my intention to
street, ' ^^, . , . ,
December eiitcr upou. Ifio siiigle Qucstion between us is
7 1837 o -L
whether upon the occasion of your charge to
3'our clergy your lordship ought not to have stated to
them the whole passage upon which you commented,
' The expression was : ' a heavy blow and discouragement to Protes
tantism.'

HOME AFFAIRS 3G9
and from which you drew such important conclusions.
I thought that you ought ; and, having read your lord
ship's letter, I remain of the same opinion. Whether
such a statement would have assisted your lordship's
argument or mine, it is not for either of us to decide.
In order to enable others to do so it should have been
made. Lest my silence should be construed into an admis
sion, I deny any compact having been to my knowledge
entered into at Litchfield House or any^where else, and
that I disclaim having been a party to any such
compact. "With respect to the other passage, which your lord
ship cites, I allow that it is very inaccurately worded,
and hable to the interpretation which your lordship
puts upon it.-' The precisely opposite course to the
eradication of the Eoman Catholic and the substitution
of the Erotestant faith is evidently the eradication of
the Erotestant and the substitution of the Eoman
Cathohc faith. But I am certain- that y^our lordship
cannot think that such was my real meaning then or
at any other time, although it may be drawn from the
words which I employed. What I intended to affirm
was that it was necessary to adopt towards the Eoman
Catholics measures precisely opposite to those which had
been adopted in the times to which I referred ; but I
can hardly be suspected of having meant that the arms
of discouragement and persecution should now be
turned against the Erotestants.
In December, the Speaker wished to resign, because he had
' ' If you abandon our policy as you have done, yoli must abandon it
entirely, and you must adopt not only a different but precisely the opposite
course.' The Bishop of Exeter is generally mentioned in Lord Mel
bourne's correspondence simply as ' the Bishop,' just as Wellington would
be called ' the Duke.' P. B

370 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
not received sufficient support from Lord John Russell ; but he
was induced to reconsider his determination.
I HAVE received your letter, and thank vou
Lord. 1 r* ¦ T 1
Melbourne very uiuch for it. I have, of course, shown it
Aber-' to Lord Johu Eussell, who takes such a verv
cromby. -i- ro ' r>
South difierent view of the facts stated in it, that I
street, .
December conceivc that thcrc must be a good deal of
27, 1837. . . °
misconception on both sides, which would
probably be removed by explanation. I do not possess
the means of forming any judgment, and if I did lam
too much interested in the result to be a fair and im
partial judge. My anxiety is that the Government, if it
is to fall, should fall in the open light, and not be dis
solved by embarrassments arising within itself in a
manner unintelligible and unsatisfactory to the great
body of its supporters. In spite both of Tories and
Eadicals, I believe there is a very large number of
persons in the country who advocate the continuance
of the present Government, and I think we owe it to
them to fight the battle with as much courage and as
much discretion as we can command.
The Radical section of the Liberal party was meantime in
almost open mutiny ; indeed, on July 9, 1837, Mr. Roebuck
had moved for a Committee of the whole House on the state
of the nation. Nevertheless, Lord Melbourne's nominal sup
porters did not like being criticised in turn, and some remarks
of his led to a friendly remonstrance from his neighbour Sir
E. L. Bulwer, whose Liberalism, however, was already on tlie
wane.
Lord Mel- ^ ^^ ^^^7 much obligcd to you for your letter.
s?"b''l° Whenever any offence is taken, or any niis-
Buiwer. understanding arises, it is far the best course
South O ' . T f
?.*¦''"'¦!!'„„ to ask at once for an explanation. I cannot
March 20, • r ii'
1^*88. charge my memory with the recollection of the

HOME AFFAIRS 371
exact terms which I employed. I should think that
those which you have cited ' are not precisely accurate,
but probably nearly so. I perceive now, what is not
so easy to perceive at the moment, that they were very
imprudent, much too general, and from their generality
very unjust. I think I cannot be considered by anyone
who considers the matter fairly and calmly to have
intended to apply my observations to any gentleman
who has supported the Government. I meant only to
designate those in Earhament who have voted with Sir
William Moleswortli,^ or those out of Earhament who
prefer a Tory to a ministerial candidate, such as those
electors of Marylebone who voted for Lord Teignmouth.
To any other my remark is inapplicable, but I feel that
I ought to have marked this distinction, and that my
not having done so is liable to the interpretation which
has been put upon it.
You may show this to anyone to whom it will, in
your opinion, give any satisfaction, but I should not
wish it to get into the newspapers.
You will observe that Lord Winchilsea used the
term ' Eadicals,' which is one I should never introduce
myself ; and that what I said was said in jest, and by
no means bore in the delivery that serious character
which it assumes in the report.
The legislation of 1838 was important. The Lords, it is
^ ' The noble lord had said that this was a boon to the Radicals. If so
it was a boon without any consideration. Her Majesty's Government re
ceived nothing in return for it — a boon more objectionable now, more in
opportune, and less justified by prudence or sound policy than at any time
he (Lord Melbourne) remembered smce the formation of the present
Government.' - The disfavour with which this strenuous politician was then re
garded by the Whigs appears on the whole to have been somewhat
unjust. Still he had recently expressed a hope that the Canadian rebels
might be victorious. D B 2

372 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
true, mutilated the Irish Corporation Bill, and it was abandoned
in accordance with the wishes of the Irish members. But the
Irish Poor Law Bill was passed in spite of O'Connell's denun
ciation of the measure, and the tithe question was settled at
last, minus the Appropriation clauses, which, if Lord Melbourne
had had bis way, would never have been introduced into the
Bill. It was in connection with the last measure that Lord
Melbourne received the following letter from O'Connell. One
can well believe that it was unanswered, as it is well known that
the Prime Minister never held any personal communication with
the great agitator, either by word of mouth or by letter.
If I could take the liberty of marking this
lePaU . •' >^
MaU, May letter ' Erivatc I should do so, simply because
10, 1838. . . 1 .
I write without the avowed sanction of any
other Irish member. I, however, have so extensive and
so intimate a knowledge of the wishes and the opinions
of the Irish people, that I can venture without hesita
tion to pledge myself to this — that even should the
House of Commons reject Lord John EusseU's reso
lutions, it would be desired, and indeed expected, that
the present ministry should not consider that defeat
final as to their power, so as to deprive Ireland of the
practical and most useful protection that country enjoys
by the impartial administration of the existing laws.
I hope you, my lord, will not deem me presump
tuous in the necessary suggestion which this statement
of fact implies. I believe that the highest proof a
British statesman can give of political sagacity is the
determination to take every step in his power to make
Ireland an efficient and useful portion of the empire,
by concihating her people to the British rule. Few
know how deep has been and stiU is the conviction of
the Irish people that the dominion of England works
only for mischief. Your ministry is the first to lessen
that conviction, and it only requires time and a per-

HOME AFFAIRS 373
severance in the present course to obhterate it for
ever. This letter requires no reply. It is even better that
it should be unanswered.
But I feel it a duty to claim for Ireland from the
present administration the sacrifice of some proud feel
ings, if that be necessary in order to continue their pro
tection to Ireland.
Lord Mul ^^ ^ *^° ^°* ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^'^^y °^ ^°^' ^^*^ ^^' ^^
gi-ave to consequence of the unexampled tranquillity of
bourne. tliis couiitry, and the confiding exj)ectation of
July 3,' the people, I am less exclusively absorbed
with the execution of business here than I was
at first, I am left to speculate at random upon what
will be the result of the crisis.
You mentioned in one of your letters that you might
yourselves be obliged possibly to take some course
which would bring on a repetition of the cotip d'etat
of November 1834 ; but I apprehend from what has
happened since that that could not be in connection
with the Irish Corporation question, because the peers,
with their temporar}' obstinacy, have made it almost
ludicrously obvious that they mean to give in next
session. The tendency on the tithe question is not so
evident, and there are many circumstances which make
it of a very complicated character. There is no doubt
that the stringent forms of the Exchequer have dis
gusted aU who have property to lose with serious re
sistance ; and that the general tranquillity which now
prevails, I really believe, upon the idea which has been
inculcated, that it is the best mode of supporting the
government, is at the same time so far an advantage to
the cleroy that there is now no comliination amongst

37i LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the peasantry. Those swaggering commissioners of
rebellion now wander up and down the country, and
undisturbed, search for victims who would, under any
other circumstances, have all been stoned in the first
-week's campaign. I have not heard lately what is
doing about the appeal in the House of Lords against
the decision of the barons with regard to the constabu
lary ; but as long as I am allowed to use the instructions
I have at present upon the employment of the force
upon that service, I do not contemplate so much
evU on that point from the tithe question being left
unsettled as from the grievous manner in which the
accumulating costs of some of the other processes wiU
act upon many.
I fear, of course, that question will again be left
unsettled, and am not altogether ea,sy about the conse
quences, though I believe you will find aU the Liberal
leaders here preaching patience to the people and con
fidence in the Government till another session. But
there still remains the equally difiicult problem, how
and when are the Lords to be brought to reason? I
quite gather that your present intention is not to have
a dissolution in the interim, so that things will remain
in much the same state when you meet again. To
render dissolution desirable you must, of course, have
satisfactory reasons for it and good results from it. In
Ireland I could assure you that you would have both a
better sort of supporters and more of them, and here,
perhaps, more than in England. The difference would
tell between an election with a friendly or hostile
government. For instance, the inclinations of most of
the employers would be to exert their influence against
the popular cause, which they would not venture to do
whUst I was here.

HOME AFFAIRS 375
On the whole. Lord Melbourne seems to have been satisfied
with the state of affairs. ' Equality of parties,' he wrote to
Lord John on August 22, ' makes government doubtful and
difficult, but it cannot be helped ; it is a contingency which
may happen, and which has happened.' And about this time
he sent the following answer to Bulwer, who asked for assist
ance in writing an article for the ' Edinburgh Beview.'
Clerks in pubhc offices are not given to extraordi
nary and gratuitous exertion unless they be of a specu
lative, philosophical, poetical, or hterary character,
and then they generaUy neglect their ordinary business.
A¥hat you want done a clerk is no more able to do than
another man ; a clerk knows but little of the measures
that are introduced hj the head of his office, and he has
but little to do with them except to carry them out.
I am sure if the ministers are chargeable with in
efficiency, inefficiency must be in the nature of the
measures, and not in their number and importance.
More, or as much, has been done in the last nine years
of change than from the Eestoration to 1830. Whether
all has been quite wise is another matter.
You are of course aware and remember that a
pamphlet was published at the end of the session of
1833 commemorating all the Acts which had passed
in that most laborious session, when many questions of
the greatest magnitude were settled and decided upon.
You are fuUy in possession of the work. In the session
of 1834 we passed the English Eoor-Law, and pretty
weU for one session, considering the effect it has had and
the row it has made. In 1835 the English Municipal
Bill— pretty weU too. In 1837 the Irish Tithe BiU and
the Irish Eoor-Law,^ the effects of which latter are yet
to be seen, but which hitherto promises weU.
' Introduced in 1837, but passed in the following year.

376 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I will try if I can get anything done for you, parti
cularly upon the finance and taxation.
Here are Lord Melbourne's opinions on the slave trade
which, after all, are those of common sense. They are probably
more serious than his dictum which so shocked Archbishop
Whately, that the abolition of slavery was great folly.'
To Lord "'" ^^"^^^ meant that any offer of Canada should
John be made, but that we should consider a litUe
EusseU.Windsor 111 our OWU miiids what is to be done in the
Castle, septt_mber casc supposcd. I seud y^ou a letter which I
have received from Hobhouse. He may be
right about the men. He is not right about the case.
I do not much like the notion of W. H.^ He has always
appeared to me a particularly silly feUow ; I have never
heard how he has done in Ceylon. I apprehend it to
be a very easy post.
Buxton ^ has of course sent y^ou his book. Fray read
it without delay. It recommends measures to be taken
instantly, and it wiU form the manual of the saints and
dissenters during the next session. I hope he exagge
rates the extent of the slave trade carried on at present,
and I should think it probable that he does so, as his
object is to prove that nothing yet has been effected
towards its abolition. Bat it is impossible not to feel
and to expect that religion, morality, law, eloquence,
cruisers, will all be ineffectual, when opposed to a profit
1 See Archbishop Whately's ' Table Talk ' in his Life and Corre-
spiondence (p. 4G7) : ' I say. Archbishop, what do you think I'd have done
about this slavery business if I'd had my own way ? I'd have done
nothing at all ! I'd have left it all alone. It's all a pack of nonsense!
Always have been slaves in the most civihsed countries ; the Greeks and
Romans had slaves ; however, they ivould have their fancy, and so we've
abolished slavery; but it's great folly.'
"^ Mr. Wilmot Horton, the late Governor of Ceylon.
^ Sir Thomas Fo well Buxton, the celebrated philanthropist. The book
was Thc Slave Trade and its Bemedy.

HOME AFFAIRS 377
of cent, per cent, and more. While a slave can be pur
chased in Africa for a few beads, a yard or two of red
cloth, a bad gun, and sold elsewhere for a hundred to a
hundred and fifty pounds, it wiU not be very, easy to
prevent his being bought and sold. But the remedy pro
posed by Buxton, namely, the establishing posts in the
interior of Africa, and undertaking the cost of ci-vihsing
that continent, requires to be seriously thought of before
it is adopted. The obstacles and objections are nume
rous and obvious. (1) The expense and the wars and
contests in which it would engage us. Our posts must
be supported and protected. (2) The loss of human life.
Whatever Buxton may say, the white man has hitherto
been unable to exist in those countries, and a much
larger proportion die than live. (3) The jealousy and
hostility of aU Africa, Mahometan and idolatrous, already
much alarmed and incensed by the French occupation of
Algiers. (4) The jealousy of all the other nations of
the world, who will no more believe that we go there
principally for the purpose of suppressing the slaA-e-
trade than we should believe it of Eussia if she were to
allege such a motive for the establishing of posts and
stations in countries which do not belong to her.
During the early autumn Lord Melbourne was satisfied with
the condition of Ireland. ' What gives you uneasiness about
Ireland ? ' he wrote to Lord John Russell on September 5.
' How unreasonable you are ! I never thought that their crimes
and outrages had much to do with former misgovernment and
present politics. I bolieve them to arise from a natural disposi
tion of the people, and a natural state of society which would
have been much the same under any dispensation.' This letter,
curiously enough, was written after the news had been received
that O'ConneU had started a new organ of agitation under the
title of the ' Precursor Association.' '
' That is, ' the forerunner of Repeal.' O'ConneU's names for his

378 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

A,igust25, I H^VE a letter from Mulgrave, annoyed and
i^^8- surprised at O'ConneU's ' Erecursor Association.'
He thought he had an assurance from him through
Eiggot that, though he would recommend agitation
generally, he would do nothing of this kind. It cer
tainly adds to our difficulties. At least, I have always
felt that all such proceedings did so.
Lord Mel- I HAVE reccived yours of the 23rd here this
wjohn morning. I think with you that it is probable
sq'tember ^^^^t O'Conuell's immediate object is to main-
20,1838. ^j^jj^ 2^-g ^^^ influence with the Irish people,
and to prevent others from obtaining power and weight
amongst them. Other leaders might say, ' Bay us the
rent which you now pay to Dan.' But it has always
been my opinion that he has larger and ulterior objects
floating before his mind, and that he always keeps him
self in a situation to take advantage of any crisis that
may arrive. . . .
Under the circumstances Lord Normanby wished to resign.
Lord Mel- ^ SEND you a letter which I received from
LordJohn Nomiaiiby yesterday. Eerhaps he has written
November ^0 you to thc Same effect. This letter, together
29, 1838. .^^q^-j^ ^Yie Erecursor Society and the general state
of Ireland, made it appear to all the Cabinet yesterday
that it would be most inexpedient to change the govern
ment of Ireland at the present moment. Such a change
would give O'Connell an additional pretext for a rupture,
and to many others a ground for joining him, which
tliey could not do whilst JSTormanby remained. I thought,
therefore, I had better write to Normanby to that effect,
and also sound him as to whether he woi^ld object to
organisations were seldom hapj^y, and this one naturally became known
as ' Tlie Cursers.'

HOME AFFAIRS 379
the introduction of Morpeth into the Cabinet during
the rest of his government.
In spite of the troubles of the autumn Lord Melbourne found
time to read ' Wilberforce's Life,' which had recently been
published. Here are his impressions, as they appear at the end
of a letter to Lord John Eussell about the siege of Herat.
Windsor I HAVE been reading Wilberforce : most amus-
october ii^g' most interesting, a most curious picture
1838. both of himself and the times ; and much ^leeps
out about Eitt which was not known before. It is a
pity there is not more : a thousand pities that more
particulars are not given of the conversations which he
had with him. I have read the recent journals — Wind
ham's, Dudley's, Wilberforce's ; all three of them full of
nothing but discontent and dissatisfaction with them-
selves.^ Windham and Dudley because they did not
apply enough and exert and distinguish themselves
sufficiently ; in addition, Dudley was always doubting
whether he made the most of his position and his for
tune, and amused himself in the best way^ Wilberforce,
perpetually vexing himself because he amused himself
too much and too well and had not religion enough.
EomiUy's account of himself the only one that has any
sober quiet in it, and yet I doubt whether he was in
reality the hapjjiest and most contented of the four.-
The worst of besrinnino- such a book is that it materially
interferes with one's attending to anything else. One
good thing, by the way, is that it shows the great
phUanthropist, Thomas Clarkson, to be a sad fellow.^

1

This is certainly true of Mr. Windham's Diary, published in 1866.
liord Dudley's Journal has never been published, and is said to have
been destroyed.
^ He was unhappy enough at the last to commit suicide. His Life,
written by himself and edited by his sons, was published in 1840, so that
Lord Melbourne luust ha-ve seen it in manuscript.
2 The allusion is to Clarkson's failure to do justice to his associates in

380 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
It was clear that, if the Government was to go on the
Ministry must be reconstructed, and the illness of Sir John
Newport, the Comptroller of the Exchequer, appeared to afford
an opportunity for effecting the transformation.
Lord Dun- ^™"^ ^^ nothing more disagreeable and un-
LorfMer- g^^ci°^^ t^i^^ having to comment on one's
Piiv^e fri^"L<ls ^'^^^ coUeagues, but you wish for some
October 20, rcuiarks on John EusseU's paper. I think there
1838. , J- 1
IS a strong feehng for a change in the Colonial
Office, which Glenelg has brought upon himself a good
deal by the manner in which he conducts his business.
I think the ComptroUership of the Exchequer bein<r
available gives the opportunity for a change there, and
as it is a most important situation it is one that
he might accept without discredit, and for which he
is peculiarly fitted by his character, firmness, and
integrity. There is no doubt that the removal of Eice from the
Exchequer would be popular. The constant canvass
for the Speakership that he has been engaged in for
several y^ears has given him a great degree of unpopu
larity in the House of Commons. His removal, then, to
the Colonial Office and to the House of Lords appears
to me to be more useful to the Government than any
other suggestion I have heard. The principal cause of
his unpopularity being removed, and having no appa
rent ground for complimenting anybody, he wiU be a
most useful assistant to you on all subjects iu debate.
He will also do the business of the ofiice weU and effi
ciently^, though there will be the same drawback in his
career, that he takes no general view of questions, but
his History of the Abolition (Wilberforce, i. 141), and to his wrath with
A\"ilberforce wlien the latter failed to get his brother promoted in the
navy (ii. 39).

HOME AFFAIRS 381
unfortunately looks too much to the minute. I think,
however, upon the whole, he would be more useful to
you in that situation than any other I have named. I
think Baringi would be the most eflicient Chancellor of
the Exchequer, and the most agreeable to you. Howick
is equal to any office he undertakes, and the most inde
fatigable person I ever knew ; but I agree in what you
say in that respect about him, that in such an office as
Chancellor of the Exchequer he never could go on. EUice
has expressed his determination more than once of never
again permanently taking office, but says that he would
do so for a short time if you asked him. Baring, I
think, will be a good appointment. I do not know
upon what ground it is that Hobhouse would be glad to
have a peerage and go out of office. He is not considered
as adding any weight to your Government. If his place
was vacant, might it not suit JSTormanby ? I know that
he looks to two particular offices, but, if they were not
available to him, the Board of Control is surely one of
sufficient importance for him to accept. I do not think
that the removal of Minto from the Cabinet, and re
placing him by Lord Granville, would give any weight
or strength. I put aside the question of Brougham to
be Chancellor of Ireland to be quite inadmissible for
many reasons, amongst others, that you would make
Campbell and all his friends perfectly frantic. I think,
by some means or other, Morpeth must be in the Cabinet.
John Eussell could not be expected to go on another
session without his assistance, and if no arrangements
can be made for the removal of Kormanliy at present,
he must be induced to allow this to take place until
some arrangement is made for him.
' Sir Francis Baring, father of the present Lord Northbrook. He
was then Secretary to the Treasm-y.

382 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Now for Ireland. I think Eadnor would be a popu
lar appointment as Lord Lieutenant, but at the present
moment there seems to be a strong feeling there that
the Duke of Sussex is to succeed JSTormanby. As John
says, this would be rather hazardous, but at the same
time it would be at present very popular, and would
soothe the wound, and a very deep one, in him and his
friends — who will be found rather a numerous body — on
the subject of his treatment in the last session of Ear
hament.^ He would be pressed, I have no doubt, to
pledge himself to interfere in no way in public mat
ters, but to leave them entirely to the Home Secretary
and the Secretary for Ireland. The Duke himself seems
to have set his heart very much upon this arrangement ;
but it is one to be weU considered before it is adopted,
and it is also to be remarked that Morpeth might not
very willingly acquiesce in such a plan. The complaint
among our friends generally is the feeble support given
to John Eussell in the House of Commons, and the want
of support to you in the House of Lords. You have
six assistants, and, with the exception of Lord Lans
downe, none who can support you,^ Glenelg, who can
speak, having almost entirely given it up, and certainly
never interfering except in his own business. In this
respect, therefore, Eice would, in a great degree, supply
that deficiency. With Morpeth and Baring, John
Eussell would get great assistance in the House of
Commons, and I think they would be both popular. I
agree with John Eussell in thinking that the whole
question must be looked at thoroughly, and, though it
' When he applied for an increase of his allowance, which he did not
get. ' One of them, of course, was Lord Duncannon himself, but he frankly
owned his inability to speak.

HOME AFFAIRS 383
is very disagreeable, that you must not shrink from
giving some eflSciency to y^our Government in both
Houses. There are many questions coming on which
create great discussion and much angry feeling — Canada,
Slave-trade, Poor Laws, Irish Corporations ; and, if we
are to believe reports. Brougham will not be missing in
his attacks. It is most desirable, therefore, that you
should prepare for it. I end as I began by saying-
there is nothing so disagreeable as making these sort of
comments, which I would not do to aiwone but you and
John EusseU ; but it is right that you should know what
people think.

Lord Mel-

I AGREE with you that it is necessary to take
LoTjoto s°^^^ ^t^P ^i^^^ respect to Glenelg. ShaU I
October ascertain whether he would accept JSTewport's
26,1838. place, which must be the beginning of all
thincfs? Eice in that office would not be a striking;
appointment, but it would confer more strength in
reality than in opinion. If you open the Excliec[uer,
consider whether it would be really wise or prudent or
fair to pass over Thomson. He is a much abler man in
finance than any of them, has a more complete know
ledge of the subject, is clear, short, distinct, and not
trammelled with crotchets or scruples. Suppose he
were to ask you, ' Why am I passed over ? ' what could
you say to him ? You could not say ' You are not the
best qualified,' because he certainly is. You could not
say that ' you are unpopular,' because that is to make
a man's fortune depend upon fancy, taste, and fashion.
His connections in the City are as much an objection to
his being President of the Board of Trade. I think he
would be more easy and happy in the oflfice after all
the worry of the other. These are all matters which.

384 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
with many others, require consideration ; but the prin
cipal object of this letter is to ascertain and to determine
whether I shall actually initiate the busipess by learning
Glenelg's inclination about the auditorship.
The contemplated changes were made gradually, and only
completed by the end of 1839. Lord Glenelg declined the
ComptroUership and resigned. He was replaced by Lord
Normanby, who soon afterwards exchanged places with Lord
John Eussell, Lord Normanby going to the Home, Office, Lord
John to the Colonial. Lord Ebrington went to Ireland. Mr,
Spring Rice became Comptroller of the Exchequer, and was
raised to the peerage with the title of Lord Monteagle. His
place at the Treasury was taken by Sir Francis Baring; 'a fine
fellow,' wrote Lord Melbourne, ' who will do anything in his
power to assist us, even what he most dislikes.' Mr. Poulett
Thomson, though he would undoubtedly have made a good
Chancellor of the Exchequer, went to Canada, where he did
great things.
The following session was to witness the first step in the
direction of a system of public education. Lord Melbourne,
unless he is much maligned, once said that be did not believe in
education, ' because the Pagets got on so damned well without
it ; ' and his views on the subject were decidedly Conservative
in colour.
Lord Mel- • ¦ • "^^ talked much y^esterday of measures,
Lord"joiin ^^^^ particularly of education. The general
South'^' opinion was that that question could not be
street, escapcd nor deferred ; that our relations with
November r
27, 1838, respect to it must be declared at the very com
mencement of the session. Upon the question itself I
diflfer. I am against it. I think education at present
stands in England upon a better ground than any new
one upon which you will place it. I am convinced that
if you attempt a combined system you will fail ; ^ but
1 That is, a permanent Government grant to supplement local contri
butions. There had been an annual grant of 20,000i. since 1833.

HOME AFFAIRS 386
I have no objection to yield my opinion and try. But
before you declare that you intend to propose a plan,
you must have a practical plan prepared. It appears
to us aU, therefore, that the sooner you mature your
views upon this subject and reduce them to writing,
so that they may be submitted to some members of the
Cabinet, the better.
We also considered the last, and perhaps the most
important, part of the paper which y^ou sent me by
Tavistock, the increase of the navy. It appears to me
and to Palmerston that before we decide upon an
increase — which will be very inconvenient, will create
great alarm and excitement, and tend much to war — it
would be better to try if we cannot, by negotiation with
Eussia, make an arrangement respecting her fleet in
the Baltic. If she would agree only to man and equip
and put to sea a certain number during the summer
we might be content, and save ourselves the expense of
a watching armament, under which the country will
be very fidgety and impatient, and which appears to
me likely to be attended with a thousand evils. If we
augment our navy without previously^ urging anything,
of course Eussia will put a large force to sea ; and thus
we may easily each of us assume a hostile attitude
when we neither of us really entertain any hostile in
tentions. It is possible that a representation, made in
a friendly tone and spirit, may at once produce such
assurances and such measures upon their part as may
be satisfactory\ What y^ou say about Macaulay is unanswerable.^
Adieu. I daresay what I have written is full of
' Apparently something about giving him office. He had already
declined the appointment of Judge Advocate-General, but in the follow-
in" year was appointed Secretary at War with a seat in the Cabinet. C C

386 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
errors, but you must correct them, for I have not time
to read it over again.
Unions, &c., amongst the labourers after what
to\he has taken place amongst the manufacturers
Soutii must be expected. They will create much dis-
Dfcember trcss to the men themselves, and are very likely
1 IS 8 to produce disturbance and outrage ; but I fear
full as much an aggressive and heated mode of dealing
with them upon the part of the magistrates and country
gentlemen as I do the combinations themselves. I a
little doubt the wisdom of refusing relief to those' who
are engaged in them, seeing that their rules are stated,
not only to be legal, but unexceptional. I also think it,
on the other hand, unwise to condemn the farmers for
giving too low wages. After all, a man is not obliged
to pay for ,a thing more than he can get it for. If you
can obtain a clear case and good evidence of incitement
to violence and blood, it may be well to consider the
prudence of prosecution. I doubt your getting such a
case, particularly if you are to take no means of pro
curing evidence which may be right, but are to trust to
what 5'ou pick up. My memory does not furnish me
with an instance of a conviction for words. There may
have been such at assizes or at quarter sessions during
the period between 1793 and 1800, when the pubhc
feeling was strong against Jacobinism ; but no such
things ever took place in other times nor in the supe
rior courts. The worst is that it is very^ easy both to
connive and to instigate without committing any act
which can be laid hold of.
Naturally averse from agitation of all sorts. Lord Melbourne
regarded the Anti-Corn Law League with strong disfavour. ' I
have often thought,' he wrote to Lord John Russell, ' that peti^

HOME AFFAIRS 387
tions and public meetings are no proof whatever of the real
feeling of those who urge them or who attend them.' So strong,
however, was the pressure from outside that he had been com
pelled to acquiesce in the Corn Laws being made an open ques
tion. Further than this he was not at present disposed to go.
His objections were not, as Greville says, aristocratic, but rather
prudential. He saw that a country in which a large industrial
population was dependent on a foreign food supply must always
be in a precarious position.
I RETURN you Eutherford's ^ letter with many
Lord Mel- "
bourne to thauks. I supposc the present liiyh prices will
LordJohn i i ^ t ¦ .
EusseU. make the Corn Law a serious question, which
Brigbton, , . -^ _
December it ucvor lias becu sinco tlic year 1815. I own
29, 1838. -, n
1 cLread it very much, not so much from either
the difl&culty or danger of the question itself, though
it is both difficult and dangerous, as from the con
viction that it will not be settled either one way or
the other without a very severe struggle, a struggle
which wiU increase aU the evils of the present day
by leaving behind it more animosity, discord, and
alienation than even prevails at present. JSTothing
is so bad in my mind as abuse and condemnation
of classes of society, and this question naturally pro
duces it.
There are some who hold that a freer importation
of foreign corn would not cause a single grain less to
be grown in this country. I cannot be of this ojiinion.
If it would diminish the home growth, I cannot but doubt
whether a large labouring population, dependent in any
considerable degree upon foreign corn, is a safe posi
tion, and whether it is not worth some sacrifice to
insure a supply within ourselves, as far as it can be
insured. Brougham says these opinions are utterly
' The Lord Advocate. c c 2

388 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
exploded ; but this is a way of getting rid of them
equally summary, easy, and unsatisfactory.
You cannot impose a fixed duty now with prices at
their present rate, nor can you at any time maintain it
with such a scale of prices. Thomson's idea is prohi
bition up to an average price of 35s., a fixed duty of
10s. from thence to 70s., and after that free importa
tion. This, he says, is the ancient taxation of the
country, and if there is to be a change it appears to me
the best that can be made. But, depend upon it, any
advantage that can be gained is not worth the danger
and evil of the struggle by which alone it can be
carried, but which may be unavoidable.
I have been ill these two or three days, and almost
unable to do anything — gout, or bile, or both — I am
better to-day and hope that I shall work it off.
Lord Mel- ^His is a vcry good address'^ and very true,
Mr"pou]ett ^^<^ ^^ ^^.r as the Government is concerned I
ooZfng' see no objection to it. It is liable to the same
janmry obscrvation as what I said in the House of
11, 1839. Lords. Telling people that they have been
hitherto silent is exciting them to make a noise in
future. But I do not see how this can be helped.
Whether the address is prudent or not is another
matter, and one upon which you, who know the people
to whom it is directed, are a much better judge than I
am. If I were amongst them I should not consider it
very conciliatory. It is reproval and condemnation,
and there is in it a good deal of sarcasm. The middle
and lower orders are very touchy, and above aU things
hate to be sneered at.
' This letter bears the endorsement : ' Address, with Speech on the
Corn Laws.'

HOME AFFAIRS 389
Lord Mel- I THINK this letter will do very weU,' that is, as
Lord"joi^ ^^ expression of your opinion, which I do not
DoTOiug think a very tenable one. If there are no other
jfnuMy reasons for a duty on importation except the
18, 1839. peculiar matters and the land, I doubt whether
it can be maintained in argument.
I should wish some words or a sentence to be intro
duced which should guard against your letter being
taken as the opinion of the Government, and should
confine it to your own.
I am not prepared, on account of the present high
prices, to put myself at the head of this Corn Law
movement. If the feeling and opinion are weak, we
shaU fail. If strong, we shall still only carry it by the
same means as we carried the Eeform Bill, and I am
not for being the instrument or amongst the instruments
of another similar performance. I send you a letter
upon the subject which I have received from Ebrington,
inclosing one from Aberoromby, which Ebrington has
desired me to show you.
I AM quite convinced and, as far as I can de-
The same .., • -i -\ t/-i -r iii
to the termme it, determined that the Corn Law should

same.

South remain open. The present outcry is raised
January evidently by the master manufacturers, taking
advantage of the present dearness of corn, and
with the object of lowering wages. It is not at present
very strong ; but if we, the Government, adopt it, as
we shall do by making it a Government measure, we
shall strengthen it at once to such a degree that we
shaU be ourselves carried away by it. Keeping it open
will give us time to see what the real feeling is, both in
and out of EarUament. I am not prepared to give my

Evidently some declaration in favour of a fixed duty.

3U0 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
voice for a free importation of corn. I doubt whether
the property or the institutions of this country can stand
it. If you declare at once for a fixed duty, I doubt
very much whether you will find yourself able either
to oppose it or maintain it.
Flunket is always for taking the wrong step in these
matters. It would never have done to have dismissed
Oxmanston. There is nothing so bad as a bad prece
dent. Everybody condemned the dismissal of the Duke
of JSTorfolk and Lord Fitzwilliam, and yet everybody
has it always running in his head to do the same. I
know that, if we continue in office, I shall be overturned
and made nolens volens a party to some folly of this
kind. With respect to E. Thomson and the Corn
The same
to the Laws, I do not care how many people are for

same.

Downing a fixcd duty. AU I wish is not to be corn-
street, n n 1-1 11. • •
January pellcd to plcdgc mysclt upon a question m
which I do not see my way. I do not see why
P. Thomson should not move upon the question as
member for Manchester, just as Plunket, when Irish
Attorney-General in 1825, moved the Eoman Catholic
question, whilst Lord Liverpool was against it.

I DO not care how open the question is left,
to the but I am not prepared to pledge myself to a
January fixed duty. I liopo you will be able to per
suade Thomson and Howick to acquiesce

111

this.

I HAVE heard from and written to Ebrington.
The same _ , ... . . • , . i
to the I have 110 objection to enquiring into the
jammi-y Operation of the Corn Laws, if that course is
thought prudent or would be in the least
satisfactory.

HOME AFFAIRS 301
Early in the session Lord Roden conducted a grand attack
on Lord Normanby's administration of Ireland. It was carried
in the House of Lords by a majority of five ; but this motion was
met by a resolution of Lord John Russell's approving the Irish
policy of the Government, which was carried by 318 to 296.
The following letter was evidently written in anticipation of
some hostile move on the part of the Opposition : —
^ , Certainly nothing can be further from the
Lord °
Normanby propcr proviuce of Parliament than to try over
Melbourne, again tlio grouiids of particular cases in which
Private. . ¦'¦
Dabiin the prerogative of mercy has been exercised.
Castle, 1 O J
January Much of tliB unfoundcd outcry which has been
29 [1839]. . . •' . . ^
raised on this subject takes its origin from an
entire misconception of what took place in the summer
of the year 1836, and to this — wilfully kept up — are to
be traced aU the newspaper paragraphs about whole
sale delivery of prisoners. We had at that time pro
secuted to conviction many offences that had not
previously been noticed, such as faction fights, &c.
The consequence was an im^arovement in all respects in
the state of the country. Under these circumstances,
knowing that in this unhappy country there had hardly*
ever been an attempt to combine, in favour of the laws,
attachment with obedience, I thought it would be an
ex|)eriment worth trjdng to remit the latter portion of the
imprisonment of such persons confined for minor offences
as were specially recommended for good conduct by the
local authorities of the jails. This did not, however, in
clude any of the worst class of criminals, who neither
then nor since have been pardoned or their sentence
changed, except upon judicial report or medical certifi
cate or recommendation of law officers. The result of
this experiment, which I made in the summer of 183G,
was in itself satisfactory. Hardly any of those thus

392 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
released were ever committed again. It was tried
aoain to a greater extent in Tipperary than elsewhere,
and there Howley (in whose opinion Tories have aU
confidence) said, six months afterwards, in remarking
upon the still improving state of the country, that he
attributed it in no small degree to the exertion of mercy
on my part. But I never contemplated that such an
exercise of the prerogative could be otherwise than an
exception founded on the peculiar circumstances of the
moment, not the general rule.
If, however, I ever had intended to repeat such an
experiment, I should, from what afterwards occurred,
have felt it right to abstain ; not merely because I was
attacked about it, but that, from the nature of the
attack, it was calculated to produce an effect upon the
people which would poison all that would have been
otherwise purely beneficial in its influence. And this is
one of the most mischievous consequences of the novel
and unconstitutional measure of making this exertion
of the prerogative a ground of party attack. There
has, I know, been no personal remission of sentence for
any offence, however trivial, for the last two years and
a half, as, for the reason stated above, I have been
peculiarly cautious in this respect ; and in consideration
of all .the more serious cases I am known to take more
pains, and more invariably to consult the judges, and
more generally to be guided by their opinions than any
of my predecessors. Things were managed very
differently in the good old Tory times. Baron Eenne-
fatlier told Howley the other day that he remembered
a gentleman of great influence in Tipperary telling him
that he had petitioned for a convict, to whom the Baron
replied, ' But I am afraid it is a very bad case.' ' To
be sure it is,' said the petitioner, ' else it would be no

HOME AFFAIRS 893
compliment.' Judge Moore told me, the first Connaught
circuit he went to two murderers were condemned ; one
of the Grand Jury said to him, ' One of those men will
be hanged.' ' Both wiU,' said he. ' Oh no,' rephed the
Grand Juror, ' Lady Sarah always saves one.' Meaning
Lady Sarah Wynne, of Hazlemont, who was, I believe,
a Beresford. The charge to which y^ou have to reply is that as to
the prerogative having been lightly^ and inconsiderately
exercised from motives of spurious popularity, or as
Londonderry, in his echo of Charleville's speech, says at
, Sunderland, 'Why were these murderers let loose as
free men on society ? Because the Catholic priest inter
ceded, and the Catholic peasantry memorialised on their
behalf.' As those gentlemen are not very scrupulous
as to authenticating facts, and as I have, I should
think, had nearer 2,000 than 1,000 of these cases be
fore me in the course of the year, it is not very easy to
supply you with the means of meeting all individual
attacks. There is, to a public man, no such painful complaint
to labour under as perpetual suppression of defence, and
I don't think that anyone ever suffered under that to
the same extent as I do. l^o one ever could, except
the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. JSToiie of my^prede-
cessors ever were, in the same way^, the constant object
of attack to a powerful party in a hostile assembly.
From my position [I am] but very rarely furnished
with an occasion to state my own case, and yet attacked
on such a succession of small points that it is almost
impossible to furnish anyone else with the means, of
answer. When I have had an opportunity I have
generally cleared off old scores, but after a time it all
beo-ins ao-ain. I must depend upon the shape which

894 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the forthcoming attack takes, whether it would not be
well worth any inconvenience once more to meet those
slanders face to face.
The state of the Corn Law question, and the
Lord .
Spencer to ccrtamty with which I have ascertained that it
Melbourne. wUl be dlscusscd ill the House of Lords on the
Wixton, ^ p • 1
February first day, havo frightened me from coming up.'
I could not avoid stating my opinion upon it if I
was in the House of Lords when it was debated at aU,
and the statement of my opinion — which is against Corn
Laws altogether — would do you no good, and, I think,
would in other ways probably do harm. As an indica
tion of my wish to support you, I have sent my proxy
to Lord Falkland, with the request that it may be
entered in the name of some decided supporter of the
Government ; and I will come up and express my confi
dence in you whenever you give me notice that a fair
opportunity is likely to occur, and when you wish me
to do so.
I conclude you' will not bring on anything about the
Corn Laws as a Government measure. My opinion is
that, if there are to be any Corn Laws at aU, the present
system is as good as any that can be devised.
Lord I DO not myself much like connecting the sub-
Melbourne . r-n • ¦ -, ..-,-, tit
to Lord ject of education with criminal law. It leads
EusseU. to the doctrine which is held by many that the
7, 1839. uninstructed are not responsible, and, therefore,
not fit objects of punishment.
You have much better opportunities of knowing than
I have, and therefore are probably right. But I should
' On January 3 Lord Spencer had offered to speak, ' as he had heard
from Lord Eussell that it was desirable that he should say something.'

HOME AFFAIRS 305
have doubted whether there was anybody who had not
been told that there was a God who would punish him,
that Jesus Christ had made atonement for the sins of
the world, and that it was displeasing to God, and
therefore wrong, to murder and rob. These are the
elementary doctrines of Christianity and the simple
rules of society. They are strongest in themselves and
by themselves. Explaining them and dilating upon
them weakens them by perverting and confusing. I
should doubt whether, in some way or another, every
body is not made aware of them at present.
Harassed as I am afraid you are with other
Lord .
Holland to busiiioss, I yot tliuik it rioht that you should
Lord Mel- , ^ . , t . , .
bourne. bc fumished with materials for iudffina- what
Confiden- ., ., n -r -, , _ J » O
tial April must bc doiic after Johns motion is carried^
17,1839. IT- -n T N T -,
(as 1 liave no doubt it will be) by hearing the
various reports of the feeling and disposition of those
who have helped to carry it. My chief but not my only
informant is EUice, who, I must s&j, has this time been
a grand Faceiidario to good purposes, both with the
press and with M.P.'s. He has made some arrangement
(approved, he tells me, by John) about Tommy Dun-
combe's motion,^ by which, with Dr. Lushington's
assistance, the bad apjoearance of a large portion of
}'our majority showing instantl}' afterwards, or at the
time, great discontent with you will be mitigated or
avoided altogether. Of this he is not a little proud ; but
be that as it will, his reports of the disposition indoors
and Old of doors are very favourable indeed, and, accord-
' The motion approving the Irish policy of the Government.
' Mr. Duncombe, member for Finsbury, moved a rider to Sir E.
Peel's amendment to Lord John Russell's resolution, asserting the ex
pediency of further Parhamentary reform.

396 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
ing to him, more susceptible of improvement and con
densation than it has been for some time. But then, he
strongly insists, and not I believe without reason, that
more concert and consultation between what may be
caUed the Government and its supporters than has sub
sisted lately must be without delay re-established,
organised, and understood. As to the ways of doing it,
he, of course, has many — too many — good and bad, to
suggest, both of a vague and of a precise nature ; but
that some device should be hit upon for increasing
activity, in consulting, in forming, and animating your
friends in the House I collect from a variety of quar
ters, though from none, perhaps, so confidently, so
vehemently, and so systematicaUy as from EUice.
I hear from others, though not from him, that, with
a view of showing determination, it would be very de
sirable to follow up your majority with a creation of,
at least, eight peers. I give no very decided opinion of
the policy of such a step, though I rather lean to it ; but
if it is to be adopted I am quite certain it should be
done at once, and, I suppose, four should be Irish, two
English, and two Scotch.
Soon afterwards the long-expected crash came. The Govern
ment were defeated on the Jamaica Bill and resigned. Lord
Melbourne's note on receiving the news is characteristically
laconic : —
go^tjj This division seems to be decisive. You wiU,
Mayti °^ course, have a Cabinet this morning. Pray
1839. direct it to be summoned at twelve.
The circumstances attending the so-called Bedchamber Plot
and the return of the Liberals to power are too well known to
need any description. It will be seen that Lord Melbourne once
more had recourse to his old chief, Lord Grey.

HOME AFFAIRS 397
Lord Grey I ^AVE been thinking constantly of what you
Me"ibourne. Stated to uic last night, and I cannot say that
rnd™on- i^y sense of the difficulty has been diminished
sSy ^y *^lie result of my reflection.
MTyTo, -'- cannot conceal from myself that having
1839. immediately about the person of the Queen the
wives of peers closely connected in office or in political
feeling with your administration must be naturally re
garded with uneasiness by the Ministers called upon to
succeed you. It is not unreasonable, therefore, in them
to seek to strengthen themselves, both in public opinion
and with their adherents, by the change they have
required. On the other hand, the effect of such change
on the Queen's comfort is so apparent that one cannot
be surprised at her repugnance to it. From what you
told me, it also appears that this sacrifice has been
pressed upon her in a manner rather harsh and per
emptory. "~
You are bound by every obligation of duty and
gratitude to support her Majesty under such circum
stances to the utmost of y^our power, and the paramount
consideration for y^ou is whether, by doing so, you may
not increase rather than diminish her difficulties. Could
your Government, if re-established, stand after all that
has happened ? And if it should fail, would not the
Queen be reduced to the necessity of making at last
the sacrifices now required of her, or even more, under
still more painful circumstances ? These are questions
which you must be much better able to answer than
I am. It must be admitted that there is a considerable
difference between the situation of a Queen Consort and
Queen Eeo-nant. But there is in favour of the Queen's
resistance the precedent of what was done in 1830,

398 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
when my administration was formed. JSTot only the
ladies of the bedchamber, though the husbands of
many of them were decidedly adverse to us, but her
whole household were left unmolested ; and it was not
until Lord Howe actually voted against us, on a vital
question, that he was removed.
With this precedent, and with the feeling which the
Queen's situation will naturally inspire, I do not feel at
all sure that an appeal to the public against the force
which is endeavoured to be put upon her might not be
successful. If there is a reasonable hope of this —
though I do not shut my eyes to the embarrassments
that may foUow — I think the Queen has the strongest
claims upon you to support her, even at the hazard of
those difficulties, in the line which she has taken.
I shall not go out till I hear from you, and shall be
ready to see you here, or to call upon you, at any time
that you will appoint.
E.S. — Eray let me have a copy of this letter, as I
am unwilling to delay sending it by having one made.
The same "'- ^^ much obliged to you for sending me a
^Ime. May ^opy of Ecel's letter. May I keep it ? It cer-
11, 1839. tainly varies the case, and is artfully enough
constructed to j)ut himself in the right. But I do not
think, when examined, that it affords any reason to
believe that the manner in which the proposition was
made to the Queen implied any disposition to hniit the
application of the principle on which it was founded.
It is very material, in my opinion, that the case
should, if possible, be brought into a shape to prevent
any discussion of what passed between the Queen and
Feel, and of their different understanding on the matter
in question.

HOME AFFAIRS 399
Lord Melbourne, ' unwilling,' as he said, in the House of
Lords, ' to abandon his sovereign in a situation of difficulty and
distress,' resumed the conduct of affairs without much enthusiasm.
' Nobody thinks I want to stay, do they V ' he is reported to have
said. 'But I must think of the poor fellows who have to put
down their broughams.' The Cabinet during the ensuing
months was hardly a happy family. Not only were the changes
in operation which the retirement of Lord Glenelg had begun,
but two Ministers quarrelled and were only prevented from re
signing through the good offices of Lord Duncannon ; and Lord
Howick did actually retire from the War Office, where he was
succeeded by Macaulay.
The Ballot was made an open question as a sop to the
Radicals.Lord Mel- The prcss is rather an awkward question for
Lor™Joha ^^^^ Cabinet. JSTobody seems to me cordially to
so"uth"' approve the undertaking except Lansdowne,
street, ^.^^ ^^^ ^^gg g^ f^-Q-^ ]j[q ygj.y strOllg SCnSC of
[1839]. ^i^Q necessity of something being done.^
I do not think the matter of open questions has
been as yet weU considered either upon precedent or
principle. I apprehend that of old the notion of Min
isters necessarily voting together upon every question
was unknown. They often opposed one another, evon
upon current business ; but when they did so it was
certainly a manifest proof of hostility and disunion.
Coalition administration, 1782 — Earliamentary re
form open, JSTorth voting one way. Fox the other ; and,
I take it, repeal of Test Act also open. Mr. Pitt's ad
ministration, 1784 — Parliamentary reform open, brought
forward by himself as Prime Minister, and rejected upon
division. Slave-trade open during the whole of his
government. Facts like these shiver all reasoning to
pieces. ' A scheme for starting a morning paper, and ceasing to give support
to the Morning Chronicle. See the next letters.

400 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Mel- ^ ^^^^ great doubt upon the press scheme -in
KiTpouiett ^11 to whom I speak. It will never do to try
soutti^"'^" ^t without a general and hearty concurrence.
junTio •'-^ attempted feebly and despairingly it is sure
iss^a'. ' tofaih

Mr. Poulett

I QUITE agree with you ; if undertaken feebly
Thomson and despairingly the press scheme must fail.
to Lord „ ..,, -^ ° ^ -L, . .,
Melbourne. ISo wiU most thiugs. But it dopcuds On you
Con- . . " -^ ¦'
fidentiai. whcthcr it IS to bc so or not ; and certainly I
¦Whitehall, . , ., ., •' '
June 10, can neither recommend others to proceed nor
have anything to do with it myself unless you
are inclined to go into it with spirit.
I look upon our position to be this : We have no
morning paper ; general complaint is made by the party
that they have no organ in the press of their opinions
and feelings — nay, worse, that both are misrepresented
to the public by the circumstance of the Chronicle
having stiU the reputation of being the Government
print. Everyone interested in the matter cries aloud
for a remedy. The case is instigated by those most
competent to do so, and a scheme is submitted which,
ill their judgment, offers the only chance of success.
It is objected to by those who have not instigated the
subject, and without any substitute being proposed or
even hinted at. Are we, under such circumstances, to
defer to such vague objections or to proceed? I have
done all I can in the matter by bringing it fully before
yourself and other members of the Government ; and
although I feel confident that without a newspaper
the Government must fall, yet, as I see so many other
rocks on which we shall split, I am indifferent to the
end being brought about one way or the other. But I
wish to relieve the person who has been consulted and

HOME AFFAIRS 401
has consulted others from his responsibUity as soon as
possible, and therefore I shaU be glad to know your
determination.

I SHOULD like to have said in words what I am
Lord Spen
cer to Lord going to write to you, but I had not an opuor-
Melbourne. . ¦, r. _ '¦ ^
Private. tuuity bofore I left town, and since my time
Althorp, / . T , V ¦¦ ¦,
July 31, has been so occupied that I have not been able
1889. . '¦
to write.
You evidently want strength, and it is scarcely
possible to point out any means by which you can
obtain it. A dissolution of Earhament would, I fear,
and indeed am sure, increase the strength of the Tories,
and ought not to be thought of unless a state of
things should arise in which you could not hold the
government. Then, indeed, the circumstances in which
you resumed the government render it, I think, im
perative upon you to try dissolution before you resign.
In the House of Commons I do not see how you can
strengthen yourselves, and there the battle must be
fought ; but in the House of Lords, though it is impos
sible for you to make any changes which will give you
any additional strength which will do you real good, I
think it might be possible to relieve yourselves from
a very great annoy^ance, and from one which tends to
weaken you. What I mean is, that I think it possible
that you may concUiate Brougham. His power and
influence over the House of Lords is much greater than
I imagined it to be, and I feel confident, without having
had any communication with him to make me so, that
he would be concihated if you offered to him to join the
administration, whether he would do so or not. I think
he would. I admit there are great objections to this.
He has made attacks which would compel aU of you
D D

402 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to conquer a good deal of unpleasant feeling before you
could act with him. As to himself, you and I know
him well enough to be sure that if he accepted your
offer he would at once forget that he was ever opposed
to you, and would act as cordially with you as he ever
did with any party with which he was connected. From
the observations that I made when I was in town this
is the only thing which I can suggest, and it is evident
that the constant fire he is keeping up, and his extra
ordinary activity and persistency, must tell in diminish
ing the power of the administration. Of course, nothing
can be done until after his motion about Ireland, to
which, b)r-the-bye, I shall come up. He does not, as he
says, intend the form of the motion to be a censure,
but his speech probably will be one ; this, however,
will not make matters worse than they are. If the
form of the motion is a censure it would make them
worse. I shall go to Wixton on Thursday, where I hope
to be able to read part, at least, of the evidence, so
as not to be as unprepared as I was on the Jamaica
question. The proposal that Lord Brougham should be taken into the
fold once more never came to anything. Still, Lord Melbourne
was not well satisfied with the state of affairs. He wrote to
Lord John Russell in September : ' By one set of people we are
told that we are mining ourselves and losing support by allying
ourselves with the Radicals and Roman Catholics ; by another
that we are producing the same effect by leaning too much to
the Tories and Conservatives. Probably both statements are
true, and we are losing credit on both sides.'
The following letters from the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
Sir F. Baring, illustrate the dangers attendant on the connec
tion between the Government and the Bank of England, upon
which Mr. Walter Bagehot commented so acutely in 'Lombard
Street ' :—

HOME AFFAIRS 403
Con- I HAVE just seen my brother,^ and I think it
Thmsday "ght to let you kiiow the state of things in the
seltember ^'^^J- Jourdain has returned from Earis.'^ The
19, 1839. Eothschilds wiU take up the bills of the U.S.
Bank if Jourdain deposits with them securities to the
amount of, say, 200,000Z. If Jourdain does this he
strips himself of the means of meeting his engagements
in England, for which, as I understand, he will require
800,000Z. within the fortnight, and a large sum even on
Monday. In these circumstances he will go to-morrow
to the Bank of England and ask whether they wiU hold
him up. . . .
Under these circumstances I shall remain in town,
and put off my going into the country till Saturdays I
think it possible that the Bank may wish to see me. It
is their old policy to shift off the responsibility as far as
possible on the Government. I think it desirable that
there should be a Minister for them to see ; but I propose
to teU them that it is a subject for their consideration
and determination, and that they must not expect any
opinion from me.
It seems to me that, independent of any general rule
as to giving opinions to the Bank as to the management
of their concerns and the power vested in them by their
charter of superintending the currency of the coun
try, it becomes more particularly objectionable and
dangerous for the Government to give any expression
of their opinion as to an advance to any particular
house — a question which must depend upon circum
stances of which the Government must be most entirely
ignorant. ' Mr. Thomas Baring.
' Jourdain seems to have been a financier. He does not appear in
the biographical dictionaries.

404 LORD MELBOURNE'S "P-APERS
So far, I think, the course is clear. But I conjecture
it is probable they will push me as to what will be the
decision of the Government if the drain continues — ix.
whether we will issue an Order in Council to suspend
payments in bullion. To this I should be inchned to
say to them that they must look to themselves, and that
the Government will not interfere, but they must pay
so long as they have a shilling in their chest. Of course
I shall put this in official language. I think this, at
any rate, the right language to hold to them. The more
so as Eice told me that they had been talking about an
Order in Council some time ago.
It appears also to me the right course in itself. It
was Huskisson's and Lord Liverpool's language in 1826.
I have had a talk also with Thomson and Eice (the
former I saw on purpose, and asked him what he pro
posed in case of things coming to the worst). They
both considered that payments should not be suspended,
but the Bank left to itself.
But, without attempting to decide that question
finally, I still consider that such is the language which
should be held to the Bank as the only safe language
for the Government to hold to them to keep them in
order. I will not enter into the measures which will be
necessary if the Bank is really drained.
I propose to send this by the early post to-morrow,
not merely with the view of giving you notice of what is
going on, but of laying before you the course which
it appears to me to be the best to pursue in any con
versation I may have with the Bank, and obtaining from
y'ou any advice or suggestion y^ou may wish to mabe.
If I want you I shaU have no scruple in sending for you,
but I don't think it well j'ou should come up in a-
hurry to see the Governor and Deputy-Governor of

HOME AFFAIRS 405
the Bank, and that to appear in the papers at this
moment.'^ October 2, ^ HAVE just Seen the Deputy-Governor of the
^^^^- Bank. He is very gloomy. They talk of raising
the rate of interest. The question wiU be discussed to
morrow. Money is very scarce to-day.
Jourdain's affair is not settled. The Bank offered
300,000Z. if they could get other houses to come forward.
They have not succeeded, and it is therefore a doubt
how far he wiU be able to get on. To-morrow a large
amount of his engagements faU due. The days of grace
wiU bring him to Saturday, and on Monday half a
mUhon is expected by the Great Western. This is a
narrow shave.
The suggestions of Mr. Attwood, who had retired from active
politics, for the improvement of the currency appear to have
been received by Lord Melbourne quite as unfavourably as they
afterwards were by Sir Robert Peel.
Lord Mel- I ^^^ Icavc to ackuowlcdge your letter of the
- M^^ Att-° 27th inst., which I received here yesterday. I
WMsor thank you for it.
October 1 "^°^ kuow vcry weU that I differ from you.
1839. J differ from your opinions, from your views
and objects, and stiU more from the measures which you
have taken to accomplish them.^ I always considered
those measures certain to lead to the consequences to
which they have led — danger to those whom you en
couraged, danger to the State, and their own faUure.
I trust now that your anticipations wiU not be
reaUsed, but I shaU be happy to consider any suggestions
which you may think of importance.
' This letter was forwarded to Lord John EusseU on September 20,
with Lord Melbourne's cordial a^oproval.
^ That is, the Birmingham League and its pohtical developments.

406 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
The following letter obviously relates to the Queen's be
trothal to Prince Albert : —

bourne to
Lord John
Russell.Confidential.
Windsor

Lord Mel- WiiAT I mcutioned to you the other day is ex
actly taking the course which I expected, and
which I then traced out to you. A very strong
impression is evidently made, and as much was
October 13 ^^^^ ^o me to-day as is sufficient to prove that
1839. ii^Q mind is, in fact, made up, and will be de
clared shortl3^ I think, myself, that it is time that this
should be effected, and I do not know that anything
better could be done. He seems a very agreeable young
man — he is certainly a very good-looking one — and as
to character, that we must always take our chance of.
Supposing it to be decided, what should y^ou say with
respect to time ? Delay in such matters is always
objectionable. It would, of course, be, in every point
of view and for every purpose, necessary to have a
Earhament. In November Chartism found vent in the ' Frost riots ' at
Newport, Monmouthshire.
I HAVE by this morning's post received several
The Mar- ¦' . .
quess of Icttcrs from different persons in the neighbour-
Normanby t m n -i • n n
to Lord hood of JNewport and Tydvil, with the account
Melbourne. _ . *; ^ . ., -^ -, \ , „
Home of a serious not winch took place at the former
Office, . f -,11
November towu yestcrday evening. About nine o clock a
large body of Chartists from the neighbouring
ironworks entered the town and commenced an attack
upon the inn where the military were (about thirty men
of the 85tli Eegiment) in charge of some persons who
had been arrested on suspicion during the evening be
fore. The attack seems to have been very resolute.
The Mayor was wounded severely, but not dangerously,
with two gunshot wounds, and two other gentlemen

HOME AFFAIRS 407
were also wounded. After the firing had continued (as
the reports say) for half an hour the mob retired, about
eight of them having been killed, and many others
wounded. Some of the letters describe them as having
been dispersed, others as preparing for another attack ;
but all ask for additional force.
I have settled with Fitzroy Somerset that the 45 th
Eegiment shall march at once from Winchester for
Bristol, and that two guns shall be sent from Woolwich
to Bristol, in case they should be required. In conse
quence of a note received yesterday from the May^or of
Newport, in which, though professing not to participate
in the alarm himself, he asks for more force, we have
already given directions for a troop of cavalry to move
this morning from Clifton to Chepstow, and another
from Abergavenny to Usk (?). From Monmouth, which
was the place which the gentleman I saw last night
represented to be in danger, we have no direct accounts
at all this morning, but a letter from the Mayor to the
Mayor of Bristol, which the latter forwards this morn
ing, represents the rumour of an intended attack to
prevail, and demands reinforcements.
Lord Mel- I SEND you thc letter which I have received
Lordjoti t^"S morning from Normanby. I hope now
winds'or ^^^'t t^i^ ^i^l g° ^° further ; but what I do not
November ^^^® ^^ ^^ ^^ *^^^ tlicre was a disposition to rise
6,1839. throughout the whole district which was totally
unknown and unsuspected until the moment before it
was about to be carried into execution. If this were to
be done in many places much mischief might be done.
Such a mode of proceeding is a thousand times more
dangerous than unions and great meetings, which are
always known beforehand, and provided against. It is

408 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
also a Uttle awkward after having taken merit for our
mode of dealing with Chartism.^

Lord

I WRITE a line by the post because the matter
to Lord™^ *° which it relates may come under considera-
wlndlol*'' ^^^^ very soon, although there does not appear
November ^^ present to be as much feeling upon the sub-
24, 1839. jgQ^; a^g there was this time last year. In one of
your letters which I saw some time ago you said that
the real objection to the English corn laws was one
which you had never yet seen stated, and that was that
the Continental nations will never, upon any account or
upon any consideration, admit the English manufactures
to anything like a fair competition with their own.
Now, if you had not said that you had never seen the
objection stated, I should have conceived that you only
meant that the manufacturing interests which had
grown up upon the Continent were so strong, and the
determination of the governments to protect them so
firm, that the admission of our manufactures could
never be carried against the resistance that had been
made to it. But your saying that you 'had never seen
the assertion stated makes me think that you may
possibly mean something else or something more, be
cause this statement has been made over and over again,
and is the main argument in every pamphlet and every
debate upon that side of the question. How is this ? I
shall be glad to hear this and anything else you may
have to say upon the subject. How are you ? I am
pretty well, but John is low and not a little anxious
about the great matters which are pending.
' The riot was, ho"n-ever, very promptly crushed, and Frost, -who
according to Lord Normanby ' sho'vved himself an arrant coward
throughout,' was condemned to be hanged, but escaped on a technical
plea.

HOME AFFAIRS 400
Lord Melbourne was more than once called over the coals
for having presented Robert Owen, the Socialist, at Court.
However, the frankness of his explanation ought to have dis
armed even the Bishop of Exeter : —
L^^^ I HAVE received your letter, with the one en-
toMr°T' closed from Mr. GUes. I beg to assure you,
Confiden- ^^^^ ^ rcqucst y^ou to assure Mr. Giles, that you
Windsor ^^^J ^ost safely, and in the most decisive
Castle manner, contradict the notion of there beino-
December ' o
20,1839. a^y approbation on my part of Mr. Owen's
opinions, or of any willingness to propagate or encourage
them. I have more than once heard Mr. Owen's state
ments, and I have always told him that his doctrines
appeared to me the most absurd, and he himself one of
the most foolish men I ever conversed with. I always
considered that his principles were too ridiculous to be
dangerous. In this, however, I may be mistaken, and
may underrate the foUy and weakness of those to whom
he addresses himself.
He came to me in the summer, and having conversed
for some time said that he was going abroad, that
before he went he wished to be presented at Court, as
he found great inconvenience in other countries from
not having been there, and asked whether, for that
purpose, he might put my name upon his card. Un
guardedly and imprudently, ^^'ithout much thinking,
and in order to get rid of him, I said yes ; and hence aU
this scandal and outcry.
At the same time I must say in general that I should
not think myself justified in refusing to present a gentle
man, at least on account of his opinions, either political
or religious. The following letter from John Allen, of Holland House,
appears to belong to this year : —

410 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Mr. Kemble told me the other day that the Historical
Society had been obliged to discontinue the publication
of the Anglo-Saxon Charters, which they had begun
under his editorship ; but when I expressed my regret
that so interesting a work should not be completed, he
said that the plan on which they had been begun and
carried on was bad, inasmuch as they had made him
omit the descriptions of the lands convey^ed by the
charters, which are very curious and valuable for local
history, containing as they do the names of many
hamlets, fields, woods, rivulets, &c., which are known
by the same names at present.
It occurred to me that it would be an object worth
the expense if' Government would undertake the work
anew, beginning again from the commencement, and in
serting what the Historical Society had, from the scan
tiness of their funds, been obliged to omit ; and on
mentioning this idea to Mr. Kemble he expressed his
willingness to engage in such a work in conjunction
with his friend Mr. Thorpe, adding that it would be no
injury to the Historical Society, because the few copies
of the work they had printed for sale were already dis
posed of.
It appears to me, I confess, that this is a work that
would do credit to the Government that undertakes it.
It is from the charters only that one can learn the
tenure of lands, their descent, the burdens and liabilities
to which they are subject, and the origin of the irregu
larities in these subjects that still prevail in England.
One also learns from them aU that can be known of the
internal administration of the country, as well as the
condition of the different classes of the people.
Since the Queen's accession nothing has been done
for historical literature but the completion of the Anglo-

HOME AFFAIRS 411
Saxon Laws by Thorpe, which was begun under her
predecessor. France has in the last years been more
active in collecting and pubUshing the memorials of her
past than in any period of her existence. The German
States are employed in the same work, and even the
Eiedmontese Government has awakened to the import
ance of coUecting and preserving whatever can throw
light on the ancient historj' of the country. Are we the
only people who have no curiosity about the past ? Is
the history of our own nation the only one not worth
investigation ? Are we so poor that we cannot spare
the funds which even Denmark and Modena found
means to contribute to so laudable a purpose ? It was
under Anne, and by the advice of Lord Somers, that the
great publication of Eymer was carried on. Let future
ages be able to say that her example was followed by
Victoria and her advisers.
I sliaU say no more, but leave the subject to your
own reflections.
In the session of 1840 a measure for the summary protection
against legal processes of persons employed in the publication of
Barliamentary papers was passed on the lines indicated in the
following letter : — '
Lord Mel- I RETURN you the Attorney-General's letter. I
LordJohn havo rcccived the Duke of Sussex's and the
wSdror Duke of Cambridge's full assent to Erince
' The question was raised by the case of Stockdale v. Hansard, of
which it is enough to say that Messrs. Hansard published, in a Parlia
mentary report, an unfavourable comment on a medical work pubhshed
by Mr. Stockdale. Stockdale brought an action for libel against Hansard,
¦who pleaded privilege of Parliament, but the Court of Queen's Bench
gave judgment against him. The House of Commons upheld Hansard.
Stockdale was committed, on the motion of Lord John Russell, sup
ported by Sir E. Peel, for breach of privilege, and the Sheriffs of London
for refusing to refimd the money they had received for selling Hansard's
goods. Here was a deadlock, which could only be settled by legislation.

412 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Castle, Albert's taking precedence of them. I think
January 1, ox
1840. i-^e should do so, but not of the Erince of
Wales. The privilege question is a difficult one in form and
appearance, but not in substance and sense. I never
saw a more disorderly and unparliamentary suggestion
than that of Campbell's respecting the course which the
Speaker should take. The Speaker knows nothing of
leaders or of parties — it is disorderly even to suppose
their existence ; and it is his business to receive the
directions of the House, not to give them.
The courts of law are wrong. I have no doubt of
that ; and they are wrong in consequence of the little
attention which the lawyers of the present day pay to,
and the little knowledge which they possess of, consti
tutional and Earliamentary law, and which renders their
authority not equal to that of the abler judges. But,
although they are wrong, they are not corruptly or
criminally^ wrong ; they commit an error, and therefore
it will not do to proceed against them with anything of
harshness or violence.
The Houses of Earhament possess this privilege, or
ought to possess it. Everybody, I understand, admits
the latter ; everybody admits that it is a power necessary
to the discharge of their duty. But the judges say they
have it not. Certain it is that they have no effectual
means of asserting their privilege. It will never do to
have a war of conflicting power carried on at this time
of day' between two of the constituted authorities of the
State, a war which wiU render both contemptible, and
which can never terminate the question. Why, then,
you must interpose with a law. There are difficulties
certainly in framing it — whether it should be enacting
or declarator}' ; but if all men are agreed that the power

HOME AFFAIRS 413
is not effectually possessed at present, and that it ought
to be possessed, surely there can be no difliculties in the
way of giving or confirming it which may not be over
come. The Ministry were promptly involved in the difSculties con
nected with Brince Albert's allowance and his precedence.
Lord Melbourne's prudence induced him to avoid the latter
point by withdrawing the clause from the Naturalisation Bill.
Lord Mel- Clarendon,^ by my desire, saw the Duke of
Lorf^jotoi WeUington yesterday, who received him very
south^' kindly, and answered him very^ frankly. But
lebru ^^^ adheres to the precedence, and says that it
2, 1840. ¦^[\[ ]-,g a^j^ injustice to the other branches of the
Eoyal family to give Erince Albert precedence over
them, even for the Queen's life, which, he says, would
be objectionable, besides placing the Erince in an un
pleasant position on the Queen's death. If he persists
in his resolution — as he certainly will, since he considers
it a matter of justice — we shaU, of course, be beat ; and
I am clearly of opinion that we had better give up the
point at once and adhere to the precedents of the Erince
of Denmark and Erince Leopold.
Lord Melbourne, on occasions, was quite competent to in
struct a bishop in ecclesiastical history : — ¦
I AM much obliged to you for your letter.
bourne From the few words which passed between us
Bishop of in the House of Lords I perfectly understood
Lincoln. . i , i • i • i
South your meaning, and the manner in which you
street, -, . . o
May 24, now cxplain It.
If the legislature were to alter the Articles

1840.

^ Lord Clarendon had joined the Government as Lord Privy Seal.
" The Bishop of Lincoln had deprecated any alteration in the Liturgy,
a petition in favour of wlrich had been presented by the Archbishop of
Dublm.

4U LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
or the Liturgy, and to direct the clergy to subscribe
the new Articles and read the new Liturgy in their
churches under pain of deprivation, it would be for
them to consider whether they would obey such a law ;
and if they were to decide not. to do so, they would
be placed in the same situation with those numerous
clergymen who refused compliance with the Act of
Uniformity. When Tillotson, in the year 1789, at
tempted, in conjunction with some-of the most eminent
prelates and divines of the day, a scheme o.f compre
hension such as is printed upon the petition presented
yesterday, it was earnestly pressed by Calamy and the
leading Dissenters to try and effect this object, as the
Eeformation had been effected, solely by Act of Earha
ment, and not to resort to the Convocation, where they
confidently foretold his utter failure. He, being a con
scientious and scrupulous and, as was reproached to
him, a somewhat timid man, and very sensitive to the
reproach of the Church of England being a Earlia
mentary Church, and also probably holding your lord
ship's opinion that what he aimed at could only rightly
originate with the Convocation, persisted in his own
course, and was almost immediately defeated in the
Lower House of Convocation, although successful in the
other. Such I feel certain would be the result of any simi
lar effort at present ; and I hope that you will not, from
anything that I have said, think that I have any wish
to see Earhament undertake the task of amending the
Articles or the Liturgy. I deprecate such a movement
as much as you do, and the errors in both must be
shown to be much more glaring and much more certain
than any that I have seen charged upon them before I
could be induced to countenance such a proceeding.

HOME AFFAIRS 415
During the remainder of the session the Government were
not pressed very hard, chiefly owing to the dissensions among
their opponents, though they suffered numerous defeats on
Lord Stanley's Irish Registration Bill. The following letter
relates to the Canadian Clergy Reserves Bill : — '
Lord Mel- I ^HL liavc cvcry excrtiou made for Tuesday.
w°jo'i^ -"-f Hardwicke presses, and the Duke votes with
s"uth"' ^^™' ^^ sliaU certainly be beat. Even if the
street, Duke should discountenance the motion it may
i***"- StiU be doubtful. It may be necessary to con
sider such a defeat as decisive, but it will place us in a
new situation. We sliaU have to resign the govern
ment upon a question upon which those who are to
replace us are themselves divided. We shall give u]i
the government upon grounds upon which our oppo
nents are unable consistently to form one. This, in my
opinion, requires consideration.
The Irish Municipal Corporations Bill at last became law,
after a protest from Bishop Fhillpotts, and the introduction of
several amendments by Lord Lyndhurst, which the Commons
at first rejected. Lord Melbourne apparently thought that any
settlement of the question was better than none.
August 6, Lyndhurst has written to Duncannon that it is
1840. impossible to agree to the amendments in the
Irish Municipal Bill. I suppose you will not insist on
them. In Lord Melbourne's correspondence for the remainder of
the year there is nothing of any particular moment, except his
letters on the Syrian question, which will be found in Chapter
XIII. Nor, when we come to 1841, is there any record of the
process by which the Prime Minister was induced to abandon
his previous declarations, and consent to a fixed duty of 8s.
' Sir Eobert Peel had approved of the measure in the House of Com
mons. Lord Hardwicke's attack did not succeed, as the Duke recom
mended that the Bill should be passed.

410 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
a quarter on wheat. There is a good story to the effect that,
after the Cabinet dinner at which the momentous decision was
taken, be called from the top of the staircase to his departing
colleagues, ' Stop a bit ; is it to lower the price of brtfad, or
isn't it ? It doesn't much matter which, but we must all say
the same thing.'
The Scottish Church question was met by Lord Melbourne
with a simple non possumus.
Lord Mel- ^ HAVE bccn somcwhat embarrassed by the
Lor™Dun- Scotch Cliurch question, by the consciousness
wmIot' ^^^^ -"- ^^^ practically utterly ignorant of it
CastK^ myself, and by feeling at the same time that I
^'**^- had no means of attaining advice or informa
tion upon which I could with any security rely. All
opinions are so infected and biassed by a strong party
and religious feeling. Upon general principles I never
saw so clear. First, I do not know how I could recon
cile it to my conscience to take the part of any Church ¦
or of anything ecclesiastical anywhere in opposition to
the law, which is and ought to be the supreme govern
ment of every country. Secondly, I do not know how
I could, with my opinions, agree to anything which was
to place the election of ministers more in the hands of
the congregations than it is at present. And, thirdly,
even if the Church were right in their desires, the
manner in which they have been asserted and enforced
cannot be justified or even excused.
At the same time I am weU aware that it will not
do to keep steady upon the soundest theory and the
most undoubted general principles ; and upon this
subject I have nothing but theory — principles against
practice, circumstances, feelings, and the actual usage
and working of institutions. I may, therefore, possibly
be induced ultimately to acquiesce in measures incon
sistent with these principles, and therefore I should

HOME AFFAIRS 417
not wish to be considered as pledging myself irre
vocably and unchangeably even to their maintenance ;
but it wiU be with great unwillingness, under strong
conlpulsion, and I do not see the possibihty of my
doing so at present. I write in confidence, but I think
it is well to put jon in possession of my general views
upon a subject which I am conscious of not well under
standing, and which the many^ publications on the sub
ject do not appear to me satisfactorily to elucidate.
I was very glad to hear from you, especiaUy as my
doing so has been of late rather a rare occurrence.
On the production of the Free Trade Budget it became evi
dent that the days of the Ministry were numbered. Then came
the question whether or no they should dissolve. Lord Mel
bourne was decidedly against the proceeding, as he foresaw that
it would be followed by a crushing defeat.
Lord Mel- ^ i^^TUEN you the ChanccUor's letter, which I
Lor™joii have weU considered. But I cannot reconcile
so^uth'^' myself to advising a dissolution in the present
Ma^^i's circumstances. It is of great importance to
^^*^- make the country clearly understand the differ
ence between us and the Opposition ; but I cannot agree
to any course that is to lead necessarily to a dissolution.
To show an intention to dissolve, and to be beat by the
House of Commons out of that intention, wiU be very
humUiating both to the Crown and the Government.
Lord Mel- ^^^ thauks for your letter. What I said in
Lor™johu 18.39 was the real expression of my feeling,
EusseU. -v^iiich is uow cxactly the same as it was then.
street,^ I Said what I did yesterday because, that being
1841. ' i[-^Q strong impression upon my mind, I thought
myself bound to declare it, and I also wished to declare
E 15

418 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
that I was ready, as I am, to take upon myself the
whole responsibility of the decision.
The effect of such a decision upon the Liberal party
is a consideration of great importance, and its effect
upon one's own character and future influence is an
element by no means to be overlooked ; but too great
sacrifices must not be made to either of these two
objects, particularly not to the latter.
From the manner in which the Tory party have
gained upon us at the two last General Elections ; from
the result of single elections, and the manner in which
these events have been brought about ; from the preva
lence of the late Boor Law cry, I feel persuaded that we
shaU be greatly beat at a General Election, and that by
giving the Tories that opportunity we sliaU give them
a great advantage. We sliaU give them an appearance
of strength greater than they reaUy possess, and we
shall ourselves show weaker than we really are.
If we do not dissolve ourselves we lose the advan
tage of the government influence, and we incur the
disadvantage, whatever it may be, of our friends being
hereafter offended, disgusted, and discouraged. But
these disadvantages are not, in my opinion, equal to the
great shout which would now be raised against us by
the united voice of aU the interests which we are about
to affect. If we could get them to prevent us from
dissolving by refusing or postponing the sugar duties ^
I am aware of the advantage it would be ; but we can
not do this without pledging ourselves to dissolve if
they do not take that course.
EecoUect, also, that if they bring on a motion in
' The Ministry were defeated on the sugar duties by 371 votes to
281. They did not resign, however, until Sir R. Peel carried a motion of
want of confidence by 312 votes to 311.

HOME AFFAIRS 419
the House of Lords the Corn Laws would make us very
weak there, and prevent many of those who have
hitherto supported us from voting with us. I wiU,
however, weU consider the whole matter before to
morrow. Cabinet at one.
Colleague after colleague, however, pressed upon the Brime
Minister the expediency of advising a dissolution, and he
yielded, with the result that he bad anticipated. •
Lord Pal- ¦'¦ ^° ^"^°^ ^^^® *° plague you about a matter on
L^rfMi" ^¦^^'^¦'^^ -'- ^^^^Q already expressed my opinion,
bourne. but I caiiiiot liclp sayiiig that ever3'tliing I hear
wiay'ii, from our own friends shows that the party are
1841. • r. r J
most anxious for dissolution, and I think the
papers of every morning show that we have the strong
feeling of the country with us. I know that too much
faith ought not to be placed on calculations made be
forehand as to election results ; but I understand that
in our calculation both seats at Winchester are put
down as lost, and yet the Dean has Ijeen here to say
that one seat is, in his opinion, certainly ours, and that
we might have a chance of the other.
But at a General Election the feeling of the country
is the best guide to guess by, and that seems getting
to be decidedly with us.
The anti-slavery cry has, y^ou see, failed ; and if it
were possible to hold out a prospect of some modifica
tion of the Eoor Law in resjard to outdoor relief in
towns with more than a certain number of inhabitants
(which I really believe would be just and proper), we
should strike the Foor Law cry dead.
Are there not reasons for a dissolution, founded on
'' There is a good description of the Cabinet council at which the
dissolution was decided upon in the extracts from Hobhouse's ' Memoirs '
{Edinburgh Bcviciu, 133). E E 2

420 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the balanced state of parties in the House of Commons ;
can either party go on with this Earhament ? And if
you would have been obliged to dissolve this summer
or autumn, as I think you would, even had the Tories
remained quiet, why not seize the favourable moment
which the present excitement in our towns creates ?
I cannot myself see how such a course can place
the Queen in a difficulty ; on the contrary, it seems to
me to tend, at least, to relieve her from difficulty.
It has been evident during the last two nights to
those who have sat in the House of Commons, and
have observed the countenances of the people opposite
us, that a gloom prevails in the Tory camp. Whether
this proceeds from dread of an appeal to the country,
or from difficulties arising among themselves, I know
not ; but it probably springs from both.
Let me mention what passed between two of our
colleagues as the last Cabinet broke up. Clarendon,
said to the ChanceUor, ' Well, I see it is all up, and
there will be no dissolution. I shaU not venture to show
my face in London, and shall go and hide myself for a
month in the country.' ^ ' I don't think,' replied the
ChanceUor, ' that a montli will be enough.'
At this juncture the retirement of Lord Plunket from the
Irish Chancellorship in favour of Lord Campbell brought con
siderable discredit on the Ministry, because it was known to
have been effected by pressure. The whole transaction was
looked upon as a job, though his successor, Lord Campbell, re
signed all claims to the pension attached to the oflBce. It
certainly was an ungracious act, and one which could only be
palliated by Campbell's long-standing claims for promotion;
claims which he was by no means backward in urging. In
1839 Lord Melbourne had been informed by Lord Morpeth that
' Lord Clarendon, according to GreviUe, was at first agaiijst a dissolu
tion, but changed his opinion.

HOME AFFAIRS 421
Plunket ' was willing to retire or remain as suited the Govern
ment.' ' But when the Lord Lieutenant broached the subject,
it appeared that the Lord Chancellor had no intention of re
tiring ; and Lord Melbourne had no other course, as be wrote to
Lord John Russell, ' but to write and urge him to remain, and
to assure him that the matter was only mentioned under the
notion that it was his wish to retire.' Meanwhile the solicita
tions of Campbell appear to have continued, and at last Lord
Melbourne felt himself compelled to make a direct appeal to
Lord Plunket's generosity. His letter has, at any rate, the merit
of breaking an unpleasant truth in a courteous manner : ^ —
The great friendship which you have ever felt
bourne and showu for myself personaUy, and the dis-
piunket. interested anxiety to serve your political friends
South " and advance your pohtical principles by which
June 6, your coiiduct has been invariably marked,
make me not only hope but feel confident that
you will receive with indulgence the matter which I
am now about to open to you. You see the struggle
in which we are engaged, and you are aware that
many Ministerial arrangements must be necessary^ on
the approaching dissolution of Earhament. Amongst
these it would be most convenient, and we are most
anxious, to provide for the Attorney-General, which the
present state of the Courts of Law wiU not aUow us to
do in this country. Under these circumstances, I have
thought it not impossible that you might be willing to
seek that retirement and repose to which your long,
able, and most distinguished services so well entitle you.
I have thought it the most honest and open course to
1 Lord Melbourne to Lord John Russell, October 21, 1839.
^ See Mr. David Plunket's Life, Letters, and Speeclies of Lord Plun
ket, vol. ii. p. 333, where the letter is given. It would appear from Lord
Campbell's Life that he really thought that Plunket's consent had been
obtained and when he heard the true state of affairs the delay had put
his seat at Edinburgh in jeopardy.

423 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
tell you at once the object which we have in view,
and the reasons why we seek it. If it is repugnant to
y^our feelings, say so at once, and there is an end of the
matter. If you accede, you will add to the gratitude
which we already owe for the support and assistance
which you have rendered us. Whatever may be your
determination, you wiU keep the matter entirely secret
for the present.
When Parliament met again, the Ministry were defeated on
the Address in both Houses, and Lord Melbourne announced
his resignation on August 30. He was probably glad to be
gone. The Queen was no longer without an adviser ; the Bed
chamber difficulty had been disposed of through his own and
the Prince Consort's diplomacy. His part, in fact, was played.
I HAD wished to say a few words on parting
Mr. G. B. . . •' , . ^
Anson to this momiiiff, but Uxbridg-e's coming in re-
Lord Mei- . ., ^ '=' *=
bourne. straiucd my utterance.
Private.
Windsor We are now on the eve of commencing a
August 30, new era, and that cannot but forcibly remind
us of the past, and make me wish to express to
y^ou the deep and lasting sense of the obligation I am
under to you personally, and which is constantly re
curring to my mind. I owe you far more than I can
ever hope to have an opportunity of showing you any
acknowledgment for ; but I hope I shall only be one
of the many who wiU ever retain a most grateful recol
lection of the invariable kindness and benefits which I
have received from my friend and patron.
The Erince desires me to reassure you of the real
grief with which he said farewell to-day. It is, how
ever, a great comfort to him to feel that y^our friendship
to the Queen andhimself will never vary, and wiU always
bear any trial to which it may be put. The Queen has
been much affected since you left, but is calm again.

423

CHAETEE Xn
CANADA
1837-1841
At the beginning of the new reign it was evident that Lower
Canada was fast drifting into rebellion, and a considerable por
tion of the inhabitants of Upper Canada seemed ready for
revolt.' A section of the Cabinet felt that, under the circum
stances, the Colonial OfBce ought to be placed in stronger hands
than those of Lord Glenelg, and Lord Howick made himself the
mouthpiece of their views : —
I RECEIVED your letter last nifflit, and I admit
Lord T p .
Howick to the force of the reasons you assig-n for not
Lord Mel- J fD
bourne. makmcr any such chano-e as I had sugo-ested ;
Priyate. -, , , n
Holland tlicy ouCTlit to liavc occurrcd to me sooner.
December This remedy for the evil I pointed out beings
29 1837. , . . . .
impracticable, the only one which remains is
that you should yourself assume the management of
Canadian business ; in the situation in which you are
placed it is in your power to do this, and in the present
crisis it seems to me positively your duty. You will
excuse my saying that, in my opinion, you ought much
sooner to have given your serious attention to the
' Upper Canada was saved by the resom-ce of its Governor, Sir Francis
Head, who threw himself upon the loyalty of the Militia, and sent his
regular troops to the assistance of Lord Gosford in Lower Canada. His
conduct in other respects, however, was not equally meritorious ; he was
reprimanded, and came home. When he went to Lord Melbourne and
asked to be allowed to justify himself, all the satisfaction he received was,
' But you are such a damned odd fellow ; ' a verdict fully justified by his
indiscreet book, A Narrative of Beccnt Events in Canada.

424 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
affairs of this colony, in conducting which you must be
sensible that hitherto you have given no real assistance
to Glenelg. There is no man more capable than your
self of forming a correct judgment as to what ought to
be done under aU the difficulties of the case, and of
acting firmly upon that judgment ; but in order to do
this, you must in the first place have an accurate know
ledge of the real state of things, and from what I have
observed I cannot be mistaken in concluding that you
have not taken the pains necessary for acquiring this
knowledge. Let me entreat you to rouse yourself from
your past inaction, to make yourself ready master of
the facts by which your opinion must be guided, and,
having done so, to set yourself resolutely to consider
what can now be done to repair the fatal errors of the
last three years. Eemember that the continuance of
the same weak and undecided policy which has hitherto
been pursued wiU infaUibly lead to the disgraceful loss
of aU our North American colonies after a calamitous
struggle, and too probably to the stiU greater misfor
tune of a general war. I grieve to think how deeply
we are aU responsible for the hves which have already
been lost.
E.S. — I hope 1 am not presuming unpardonably
upon your good nature in writing this letter ; but the
painful interest I take in the issue of this business must
be my apology.
The rebellion was promptly suppressed by the British troops,
under the command of Sir John Colborne, and the Ministry
resolved to send out Lord Durham, armed with special powers.
His proceedings, however, were hardly calculated to allay dis
content, and there was a great outcry at his inconsiderateness
in taking out with him men who, though their abilities might
be considerable, were damaged in character.

CANADA 425
Lord Mel- ^^^ do not mention it in your despatch nor in
LoTour- yo^^ two letters to me which I have received,
Tate'and"' ^^^ ^^^ Qucbcc Gazcttc, which you have sent,
Sh'^' leaves no doubt that you made the appoint-
street, mcnt of Mr. Turton to be one of your secre-
1838. taries and a member of the Executive Council
one of the first and foremost acts of your government.'^
You must be weU aware, after the letters which you
must by this time have received, and the statement
which by this time you must have read of what passed
in the House of Lords immediately upon your departure,
that this step must necessarily place us aU, and me more
particularly, in great difficulty and embarrassment. I
have been questioned to-night in the House of Lords
upon the subject by Lord Wharnecliffe, and I could
not, of course, say otherwise than that I had heard of
¦the appointment with great concern and great surprise,
and that when I had made my former statement — to
which, of course, he caUed attention — I thought that I
had had reason to expect that no such appointment
would be made. I could not say other nor less than
this, because I must own it appears to me most wonder
ful that you should have done this so hastily, so preci
pitately, and so entirely without consultation. If the
pubhc feehng here was such as to render it advisable
that no appointment should be made here before you
went, you could not suppose that it could either be
satisfied or evaded by making the appointment upon
the other side of the water immediately upon your
arrival. I write this upon my own account, and without
having consulted with others. What steps it may be
necessary to take in this matter it is impossible at this
' Mr., afterwards Sir Thomas, Turton, was a member of the Calcutta
Bar at the time of his appointment.

426 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
moment to say ; but it must be considered and deter
mined upon. With the exception of this unfortunate,
and from the beginning most ill-advised proceeding,
your letters seem to be satisfactory, and I will take an
early opportunity of writing what occurs to me upon
them. I WILL write once for all about this unfortunate
The same .
to the and foolish affair of Mr. Turton. It will do
same. ,.,,.,
South you much harm ; it will do me much harm ;
street, V .,, t , . . '
July 17, it Will do your government and }'our mission
some harm. It is one of those gratuitous and
unnecessary difficulties which men most unaccountably
create for themselves, and which are generally greater
than any which are created for them by the natural
course of events.
You never ought to have entered into any negotia
tion with him upon the suggestion of others without
distinctly naming it to me. You must have known, and
you did know, the objections that would arise.
When, in consequence of the state of public feeling
here, you were persuaded that it was necessary to give
up making the appointment, who could have expected
that you would make that appointment the first act of
y^our government upon your arrival ? and, considering
the ferment which prevailed upon the subject at the
time of your sailing, you must have expected that the
matter would be mentioned in Earhament ; and was it
ordinary discretion not to wait until you learned whether
it had been so mentioned, and what had been said by
the Government upon the subject?
It is not fair to yourself, it is not fair to the Govern
ment, it is not fair to the important duty which you
have undertaken to discharge, to array and to enlist

CANADA 427
against yourself so great a mass of public feehng as you
have done by the association with yourself and your
government of this gentleman and of others whom you
have with you. This feehng may be prejudiced and
erroneous; but, even if such be the case, it does nor,
diminish its strength or render it less formidable.
I have now expressed myself fully and distinctly
upon what has passed, and I shall revert to it no more.
With respect to the future, I understand from your
letters of the 16th ult. that you cannot consent to alter
the appointment which you have made. You will by
this time have received the two last letters which I
wrote to you upon the subject — the one upon hearing
the report of Mr. Turton's appointment, and the other
upon being certified by the Quebec Gazette that it had
taken place. If these should make no alteration in
your determination, I cannot, of course, take upon
myself the responsibility of pushing matters to an ex
treme which would hazard the interruption of that
course of policy in Canada which you have auspiciously
commenced ; but in that case you must be prepared
for the result of any motion in Earhament upon the
subject. I am prepared to resist such a motion ; but if
it should be carried, I hope that you wiU be prepared
to acquiesce in it.
Upon all other matters, upon aU parts of your con
duct, except as far as relates to Mr. Turton, I have only
to express, according to my present information, my full
approbation and concurrence, and my congratulations
upon the good effects which your measures appear to
have already produced.
The same I WROTE to you yesterday upon this appoint-
^B^l ment of Mr. Turton. You wiU see by the re-

423 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
South ports in the newspapers that I have been again
juiri's, questioned in the House of Lords by Lord
18S8. Winchelsea with respect to Mr. Gibbon Wake
field. ^ It is currently said that he has received some
appointment from you. Of course, after your last letter,
I feel confident that this is not the case, and I have not
scrupled to say so ; but the event in the case of Mr.
Turton renders people the less wiUing to believe me
than they would have been before that unlucky and most
precipitate measure. If this report of the appointment of
Mr. Wakefield were to be confirmed, no power on earth
could prevent an address to remove both him and Mr.
Turton from being moved and carried in the House of
Lords, and I believe in the House of Commons. It is
incredible that a man of common sense should show
such an ignorance or such a disregard of public feeling
and opinion as you have done in the selection of these
gentlemen. If their abilities and powers were super
human they would not counterbalance the discredit of
their characters. They will materially weaken us ; they
wiU cause every act of your government to be viewed
with a jealousy and suspicion to which they would not
otherwise have been exposed.
I rely, therefore, upon your assurance that you will
not give Mr. Wakefield any public appointment what
ever, that his name will not appear in any public docu
ments ; and that you will not put forward Mr. Turton in
any more prominent situation, or place him in any other
' Gibbon Wakefield was the hero of the celebrated ' Wakefield abduc
tion case,' for which delinquency he was imprisoned for three years m
Newgate. During his imprisonment he wrote the marvellously vivid
description of prison life entitled. The Punishment of Death in the
Metropolis, and the more celehratei Letters from Sydney, in ¦whieh.h.6
advocated the Wakefield system of colonisation. Subsequently to his
liberation he was an active promoter of the South Austrs^lian AESOQia-
tion and the New Zealand Company,

CANADA 429
post of trust or dignity. Let his name be seen as httle
as possible, and let Mr. BuUer continue to sign aU your
pubhc acts.^ Only consider how you injure your own
private character by the association of such men with
yourself and your family. Only consider how you in
jure the Queen, whose age and character demand some
respect and reverence. Onl}' consider what topics jon
furnish to your adversaries. The real insignificance of
these difficulties, if indeed they be insignificant, and the
ease with which they might have been avoided, only
render them the more annoying and provoking, espe
ciaUy when we consider the magnitude of the conse
quences which may flow from them. I should wish,
but cannot hope, to have to write no more about them.
I should wish to turn to the more gratifying subject of
the general measures which you have taken, of the
general aspect of affairs, upon which, as weU as upon
your representations with respect to military and naval
force, I wiU give you my notions in a day or two.
Soon afterwards arrived the intelligence of the issue of Lord
Durham's celebrated Ordinance, by which eight Canadians were
transported to Bermuda, and Papineau and fourteen others, who
had fled the colony, were sentenced to death in case of their
return. The result was, that Lord Brougham forced upon the
Government an Act declaring the true meaning and intent of
the Canada Act, and Ministers were compelled to disallow the
Ordinance. I OUGHT to have written to you before, but the
bourne to turmoil and difficulty of the close of the session
Durham, of Earliameut have been so great that I have
South"' not had time to write as fully and largely as
Au^st 19, the importance of the matters demanded. I have
^^^^' been the less concerned at the delay, because I
> The appointment of Charles Duller was, of course, perfectly un
exceptionable.

430 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
felt certain that upon a matter of such magnitude and '
consequence you would be sure not to act with any
thing like hastiness and precipitation. I am confident
that you are too sensible of the importance of the inte
rests which are committed to your care, and too weU
aware of the real nature of the form of government
under which you are acting, not to be aware that cool
ness, patience, and endurance are perhaps the most
essential amongst the various qualities which are re
quired for the due discharge of the task which you
have undertaken.
You are, of course, by this time acquainted with aU
that has taken place in Earhament. We have supported
you with aU our might, but we laboured under great
disadvantages from the very scanty and insufficient in
formation which you had afforded us, whilst our oppo
nents were naturally in possession of the fullest and
most authentic intelligence. With respect to the pri
soners sent to Bermuda, you never transmitted to us
any copy of their plea of guilty, or of their confession,
nor any statement of the circumstances which had led
to its being made ; whilst of course the prisoners them
selves had furnished Eoebuck ^ with aU these particu
lars, which were immediately conveyed to Brougham.
With respect to Mr. Eapineau, and those in the same
class with him, you could not [fail to] be sensible how
much you were exceeding all former precedents in attaint
ing them at once in case they returned, without giving
them any notice or any opportunity of coming in and
being heard in their defence. You never caUed our
attention to this great difference, or put us in possession
of the special reasons which you must have had for
' Mr. Roebuck was the paid agent of the Canadians.

CANADA 431
proceeding in a manner so unusual and so certain to be
productive of much observation and censure.
I have no doubt that you were substantially right in
your manner of composing the Special Council, but you
cannot be surprised that it should be made the subject
of much animadversion by your and our enemies and
opponents.^ It would have been well if in such matters as bills
of attainder and biUs of pains and penalties you had
furnished us with exact minutes of the proceedings,
so that we might have been able to show that aU was
regular and according to form.
The editor of the Westminster Review, a gentle
man of the name, I believe, of Eobertson, communicated
to me a letter addressed to himself from Mr. BuUer,
which he afterwards thought proper to publish in the
Morning Chronicle. I mention the fact as I am
going to observe that, in my opinion, those who are in
your suite and in your employment ought to be cautioned
against writing letters home respecting the course and
policy of y^our government. This is the ordinary pre
caution taken by every mission, and the consequence
of the contrary line is that the town teems with letters
to editors of newspapers and reviews, who have the
most authentic inteUigence of what is passing in Canada,
whilst the Government is left in absolute ignorance.
I think it right to mention these matters clearly^ and
distinctly. I know that you have much to do, probably
more, much more, than any individual strength can
perform ; but y^ou can command assistance, and I am
sure that you will perceive and admit the necessity
of keepino- us accurately and minutely informed with
' Lord Durham had dismissed his predecessor's Council, and appointed
a Special Council of five, selected<from his personal following.

432 LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
respect to everything that passes. You must have
expected that the exercise of powers which were con
sidered to be so large would be watched with the
utmost jealousy and commented upon with the extreme
of severity, and that there were persons in this country
whom neither patriotism nor discretion would restrain
from indulging in the utmost latitude of invective. The
only^ safety lies in strict observance of the powers, in •
adhering to forms as weU as to principles, and, if you
are obliged to deviate from either, in making apparent
the grounds and reasons for such deviation.
I feel certain that you wiU not only forgive but
approve the freedom with which I have written, and
that the untoward circumstances which have taken
place, although they may render your course more diffi
cult, wiU only encourage you to persevere in it until
you have accomplished the object of your mission.
Ministers at first imagined that Lord Durham would submit
to the censure passed on his proceedings in Parliament; but
Lord Melbourne was of a different opinion.
Lord Mel- ^ SHALL be either here or at Windsor or at
LordJohn Brockct or at Fanshanger. If you will let me
SouH?^^' know exactly when you mean to leave Eyde,
Au^^st 25 ^^^ when you mean to go to Ireland, I will
1838. arrange about meeting you. . . .
Durham will either throw up at once, or he will
hurry his measures very much, which indeed he was
otherwise inclined to do, and then insist upon coming
home immediately. He wiU concoct a general arrange
ment by the end of October, send it home, follow it
himself, boast of the effect he produced while there,
and if it is thrown out will afterwards say it is aU owing
to the manner in which he has been treated ; in saying

CANADA 4.3J
which he wiU have a good deal of colour, if not of
truth. It rains again to-day. Herat is bad, Belgium is bad,^
the Erecursor Association is not good, many other
things are unsatisfactory, but this rain is the worst of
aU. Adieu.
Later on came Lord Durham's despatches, announcing his
intention of resigning; and soon afterwards Ministers must have
been acquainted with his angry proclamation of October 9, in
which he appealed from the Government at home to the Canadian
people.
Lord Mel- UpoN recciving the news yesterday I deter-
L^™joi^ mined upon coming up to see Glenelg and
Doming those who were in London. Durham's de-
octobCTig, spatches are very long, in parts very able,
1838. putting forward all that makes for him and
nothing that makes against him ; very^ artful, and require
to be very carefuUy read and considered. Tliey^ are not
an immediate resignation, but they express a determina
tion to resign as soon as he has completed the enquiries
in which he is engaged and has arranged his plan.^
This is rather an odd course ; but as he has declared his
intention to the deputies of the other provinces, I do not
see how he can well depart from it. I have seen
Glenelg with Eice this morning, and have settled that
he should only;' at present acknowledge the receipt of
the despatches, and say that he trusts, as his resigna
tion is not immediate, that he may be induced by
further consideration of the subject not to persevere in
' Owing to the obstinacy of the Kmg of Holland, the Belgian difBculty
still remained unsettled.
^ It was really Charles Buller's plan, embodying the opinions of Mr.
Gibbon Wakefield and Su? WilHam Molesworth. The Beport on the
Administration of Canada forms the' charter of colonial Uberties. F E

434 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
his determination of resigning. I have desired Glenelg
to get the despatches copied as soon as possible. It is
impossible to form a judgment upon them without a
careful perusal.
Newport is better, so that there is little breathing
time. Normanby's letter is a complete declaration of a
want of confidence and of the necessity of a change in
almost every department. Of those you mention who
are for reconstruction Duncannon and Lansdowne are
both fit, but I doubt whether Thomson would be satis
fied with a change which did not considerably advance
C. E. Thomson, certainly not with one that did advance
Eice. The first step towards a change would be to ascer
tain whether Glenelg would accept Newport's place;
but I do not like to stir such a question whilst he has
all this public business to transact and is at the same
time suffering under private calamity.^
E.S. — ^Letters have come from Colborne accepting
the command. You mean, I suppose, that Colborne
should be invested with aU the powers that Durham
had. It is very odd to me the terror that Durham
to the inspires. Everybody has always been afraid of
same. , ^ i • i
South him. They seem to me to fear him much more
October 21, than they do Brougham. Now, for myself, if
I was told that I was to-morrow to stand up
in the prize-ring against Cribb or GuUy, I .should be
rather alarmed.^ But I should not feel the same if
' The death of his brother, Sir Robert Grant. Su: John Newport was
Auditor of the Exchequer. Lord Glenelg declined to accept the appoint
ment, and retired firom oflSce in the foUowing year (see the previous
chapter). ^ Tom Cribb, the hero of the celebrated fights with the black, Moli-
neaux, in 1810 and 1811, difed in 1848. Gully, e.x-prizefighter and ex-

CANADA 4.-i.->
I was threatened with a set-to with LuttreU or old
Eogers. George Grey ^ has just been here with the
The same i i •
to the despatch, m which he has inserted all your
same. ¦'
South proposed matter, and it has certainly much
October 26, improvcd it. Morpeth writes in the same tone
as Normanby, that he hopes there will be no
truckling to Durham. Now Durham lias so run at me
in those letters of his, and I dislike him so much, that
there is no course would please me so well as setting
him at defiance ; but when I consider the state of the
colony, and the feeling of the English party now rally
ing round him, and when I recollect that I am accused
of not having supported him, I feel it to be absolutely
necessary that we should do nothing to prevent his re
maining or to facilitate his coming away. If we were
merely to accept his resignation and appoint a successor
it would be said, 'This was your intention from the begin
ning, and aU you have done has been in order to carry
it into effect.' I so much like Normanby's readiness to
undertake Canada, that I am loath to make any sarcas
tic observation upon it ; but the fact is that he is most
anxious to get away from Ireland, and Morpeth not un
wiUing that he should go. I have, by-the-bye, this morn-
insr received a letter from Breadalbane offering to under-
take Canada. I was pleased with it, as I like to see
persons of that station ready to undertake such a pubhc
service, and I have written to him to that effect, that
his offer was most honourable to himself, and that it
would be considered.
•hookmaker, was elected member for Pontefract in 1832. It is hardly
necessary to say that Lord Melbourne must have had numerous sets-to
with LuttreU and Eogers at Holland House.
1 The Under-Secretary for the Colonies. F F 2

436 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Mel- M^NY thauks for your letter. Lnnecessaiy
MTpSiiett letters are a nuisance, but in matters of conse-
WMao™' quence it is very material to be informed of

October 30 ^^^ opiiiions wliich are held. Whether Du

1838. ham's resignation was right or wrong is a ques
tion which may be viewed in different lights, and upon
which there may fairly be much difference of opinion.
His provocation was great, and though I think he
brought it upon himself by his rash and imprudent
manner of doing things in themselves right, it required
much patience and forbearance to submit to it. I agree
with you that in itself it does not make much difference ;
he wiU StiU do all that he ever proposed to do, and then
return home. But I cannot, therefore, view it as an
event of small importance. Whatever may be the fact,
his stay in the province will be considered as having
been violently curtailed and abridged, and aU the
failures that may take place, and all the evils that will
happen, will be attributed to his departure. He had
made large promises, aU of which, he will now say, he
should certainly have fulfiUed if he had been permitted
to remain. The English party, who were discontented
with him, now possess entire confidence in him. All
these considerations seem to me to render it expedient
that we should do nothing to hasten or facihtate his
coming away, but that we should, as we have done, ex
press a wish that he would reconsider his determination
and remain. You may caU this submission to his inso
lence ; but it is not much submission when you in fact
say, 'You have put yourself in a foohsh passion and
acted rashly ; do think better of it, and retract your
declaration.' Whether he can or wiU do this is another
matter ; but surely we, by offering it, keep ourselves in
the right both with him and with the country.

CANADA 437
. His declaration of his intended resignation and of
the grounds of it, and yet his continuing to act for a
certain period, is a great inconsistency into which he
has faUen. Liis consenting for a moment to serve a
Government which he so loudly condemns is surely the
best refutation of that condemnation.
If he remains in compliance with addresses and the
requests of public meetings I am sensible that it wiU be-
liable to the observation, that he is there. Governor of
Canada, rather by the direction of the British Canadians
than by the appointment of the Queen. But this, though
not without weight, does not appear to me sufficient to
counterbalance other considerations.
Though it has been mentioned in despatches, the
matter of Turton does not appear to me to be joroper
for a despatch. I would rather make the explanation
in debate, and I would rather have it appear that I
was forced to make the explanation than that I volun
tarily entered upon it. Hobhouse and Stanley will be
named in that business. None of it passed officially or
with the Secretary of State. All passed verbally with
me. There will, of course, be conflicting statements.
It is a question which, in fact, ought not to be discussed,
and I should wish to appear to avoid it as long as pos
sible. It was settled to all practical purposes ; and in
his last despatches he argues that it had not at aU in
jured his authority in the colony, although in his former
letters he asserted that it had totally destroyed it.
With respect to his other complaints against the
Government — or rather against me, because he has
written to John EusseU a fuU absolution and remission ;
in order to do this he must, of course, put his resignation
upon the weakness of my defence in the House of Lords,
and not upon the disallowance of the Ordinance, because

438 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to that we were all parties — ^but with respect to his other
complaints, I rather agree with you that a despatch
should be drawn up in reply to them.
From Mr. Well, lias not this meteor finished his career
Lorl^Mei- ^^ ^^^ blazc I always predicted ? What a pro-
bourne. clamatiou — and if I am not mistaken in one
important, the only important, point in it — in defiance
of his instructions ! ^ At least so I understood, that
y^ou had directed the case of the prisoners, and of other
persons affected by the disaUowed Ordinance, should be
considered as if no such Ordinance had passed, and that
they should be treated still as exceptions to the amnesty.
At the same time, I must confess I thought the aban
donment of the Ordinance would lead to this result.
That you may see in what light the only one of ' my
measures ' which has been published — a Eegistration
Bill — was considered by the country I enclose my
agent's letter ; a very reasonable and sensible man. The
assumption that his Excellency and his Cabinet are the
only people who could take a right view of the difficub
ties and wants of the country is very well illustrated
by this proof of their exclusive capacity to legislate for
it. There were other heads and men of great experience
who might have been applied to to frame these laws,
who might have done it without exposing themselves to
the blunders necessarily committed by men who had
neither local experience nor any other qualification than
a smattering of English law to qualify them to deal with
the conflicting princij)les of the feudal system and our
' Lord Durham's proclamation resulted in his official recall. But he
anticipated the Ministry, and left Quebec on November 1. Mr. EUice
was connected with the Canadian fur trade, whence his name 'the
Bear.'

CANADA 439
laws affecting real estate ; and so it would have been
with the rest of ' my measures.' You have seen already
in the Globe the outline of their federal constitution.
It was no sooner broached than his Excellency was
obliged to abandon his provision about the Councils ;
and, as if to condemn the whole, the meeting called at
Montreal to address him came to a unanimous resolu
tion in favour of the absolute union of the two pro
vinces — a measure which, as I quite suggested it years
ago, I cannot be supposed to be opposed to in principle,
although I fear that, without time and preparation, it
might be found both unjust and unpracticable. How
ever, that must be considered again, with other propo
sitions ; and if Howick cannot find any one to which no
objection wiU apply, I shaU despair of any other result
than a separation of these colonies from the mother
country. Lord Durham reached Plymouth on November 26. On
December 1 came the intelligence of the renewal of the rebel
lion; on the 3rd, of its suppression.
Lord Mel- EvENTS como quick. Despatches from Sir John
LOTd'johu Colborne of the 12th announce the speedy
Downing ^"^^ complete suppression of the insurrection
December ^°- Towcr Canada, and his opinion that the
3,1838. province will remain tranquil during the
winter. The British turned out with the greatest
alacrity ; the Volunteers beat the French whenever they
met them, and the whole were entirely dispersed. Sir
John says that the whole had been announced and the
oaths administered in June and July; so there ends
the notion of what passed here having anything to do
with it, which indeed was before quite inconsistent
with dates. . . .

440 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I STAYED in town to-day because I thought that
to the Durham would arrive, and thought it best to
December bc here wlieii he did ; but I now learn from
the Admiralty that he wiU not come until
Thursday or Friday. I shall therefore go back to
Windsor to-morrow. This delay on the part of Dur
ham appears rather strange, considering that he left
Canada in such haste in order to give the Government
information ; but I suppose he wiU say that his news
¦was of the intended rebeUion, which, together with its,
suppression, outstripped him, and rendered his inteUi
gence of no value. It is certainly an awkward thing,
his coming away being so closely contemporaneous with
the outbreak : he sailed the 1st or the 3rd ; martial law,
was proclaimed on the 4:th. This is rather close and
looks ill, but I do not see what he could have done
by staying. He would only have been an enibarrass-
ment. About the other matters — -prisoners, &c. — ^I
think we were right, and that it was impossible to con
stitute a new tribunal for the trial of them.^ I do not
myself at aU wish to press upon Durham, and would do
anything to help him short of appearing to court and
truckle. On his return Lord Durham at first refused all communica
tion with the Ministry.
Lord Mel- STANLEY '"^ has sccn Durham this morning. He
Lord"jo*^ found him calm and quiet enough, but much
Downhig vexed and hurt at the last despatch disap-
Deraniber proviiig liis proclamation, and particularly
8, 1838. j^|. j[^g expressing the Queen's disapprobation,
¦' Twelve Canadian prisoners were brought up on haieas corpus before
Lord Denman and the Court of Queen's Bench. The Court upheld their
committal. ^ This is ' Ben ' Stanley, afterwards Lord Stanley of Alderley. He
was now Secretary to the Treasury, and the most adroit of whips.

CANADA 441
which he says is very marked and unusual. He said
he should write a reply to it, and in that reply inform
Lord Glenelg that when he received from North America
the whole of the information, which he had left Charles
BuUer to coUect and digest, he should lay it before the
Government. He expressed no animosity or resentment
against anyone, but said that he thought the Govern
ment had acted towards him with ill-will, and that he
had been made an object of persecution. Glenelg is of
opinion, and I agree with him, that, notwithstanding
this knowledge of his intentions, we should still, as he
has now been nearly ten days in the country without
making any communication to the Government, send
the letter which we agreed upon at the Cabinet yester
day, and which has been drawn up in very moderate
and proper terms.
The Canada news is very favourable, and the pro
clamation of the American Eresident highly satisfac
tory.^ I shaU go back to Windsor to-morrow.
E.S. — Since I wrote the above Glenelg has received
a letter from Durham tendering formally his resigna
tion, and adding that his fuU report upon the affairs of
Canada must necessarily be delayed until the gentlemen
connected with his mission return from Canada, from
whence they may be very soon expected, as they were to
leave Quebec on November 20. I think Glenelg should
write to ask whether he has no information of impor
tance to give.
The same I RETURN you Tavistock's and Charles Greville's
*" *'"' with many thanks. I have desired Glenelg to

same.

,S',°' send you the letter which he has received from
u'Tsi' Durham, and his answer. People do not very
1 A proclamation of neutrality issued by President Van Buren.

442 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
often do what one desires them of this kind, but
perhaps he may. I do not see that we can do more,
nor how we can have any personal communication with
him if he declines it. Charles's opinion of Durham, both
as to the manner in which he has been dealt with and
in which he ought to be dealt with, is exactly mine.^ I
have always said that there had been a deference to
him and attention to him, neither of which could I
understand or participate.
Charles Greville's language about Canada and the
sword and all that would not only be impolitic to use,
but it is too strong in itself. We accustom ourselves in
speaking of one another and of measures to employ
such unmeasured and exaggerated terms, that we not
only pervert and confuse our language, but our notions,
ideas, and perceptions. Witness Durham saying that
he went out with despotic powers ; despotic meaning the
absolute power possessed by a master over a slave in
the times of untempered, unmitigated slavery. Wliat is
true is, that we can never suffer the French to govern
or to have much influence in Canada again, and they
being the majority in Lower Canada, this will make it
difficult to establish anything like a popular govern
ment. E.S. — I have this moment received a letter from the
Duke of Eichmond,^ which says, ' Be steady, be very
firm with y^our ex-Governor, or there wiU be the devil
to pay.' I agree with the advice, though I do not
exactl)' see what he apprehends.
By the way, I think it rather hard to charge upon
Mr. Eitt the Corn BiU of 1815.
' Mr. Greville's views are reproduced in his Journal, notably under
the date December 10.
" The Duke of Richmond, who had been a member of Lord Grey's
Cabinet, was now a cross-bencher.

CANADA 443
We must begin to think seriously what we
to the shaUdo about Canada. We shaU be pressed
same. , . ¦"¦
Downing upou this the momeut Parliament meets. EUice
street, ., ,
December says that there must be no further delay, and
19, 1838. T -r 1 "
that it we do not propose a plan he will propose
one himself. Many, I suspect, wiU be of his opinion
that a decisive step ought now to be adopted. I do
not expect much from Durham's suggestions. I under
stand now that he himself say^s that he has no plan
to propose, and if he only gives us general obser
vations he wiU not advance us much upon our
journey. There is nothing here but gossip and rumour and
chuchotage about Durham and amongst those who re
sort to him. Duncannon wrote to ask to see him. He
replied that he could have no communication with any
member of a Cabinet which had used him so scan
dalously. Stephenson has been to the Chancellor, and
after beating a good deal about the bush he at length
stated the real object of his coming, which was to suggest
whether some agreement could not be come to between
Durham and the Government before the meeting of
Earhament ; that by such an agreement much unplea
sant discussion might be prevented ; that Lord Grey,
who had thought him previously ill-used, had in the
most unqualified manner disapproved of his proclama
tion ; that Lord Durham would make no overture him
self, but that upon the whole he thought that he would
not be indisposed to communicate with Lord John
EusseU. The Chancellor prudently made no answer,
but reported the conversation to me. Do you think that
there would be any objection to the Chancellor asking
Stephenson whether he was certain that if you made a
step towards him it would be civilly received, and not

444 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
rejected in the same manner as Duncannon's advance
had been ? What say you to this ?
I SHOULD like to know what you think about
The same r^ -, -. r ¦ .
to the Canada. My own opinion is that the only
South course is to continue the further suspension of
street, ... _. ., ^^
December thc constitutiou 111 Lowcr Canada, and to leave
23, 1838. ., ^ . ., .,. .
the other provinces as they are. It is laid
down by all as a fundamental principle that the French
must not be reinstated in power in Lower Canada ; but
there appear to me insuperable difficulties in the way
of carrying this into effect if you are to give a new
constitution to Lower Canada, or to unite Upper and
Lower Canada, or to form a federation of aU the North
American provinces. In any of these cases you must
give its due weight to the French population, according
to its numbers. Swamping them, or any devices by
which the real power is given to a minority^, wiU not do
in these days. Adieu.
The resignation of Lord Glenelg and the transference of his
successor. Lord Normanby, to the Home Office were followed by
the placing of the Colonial Office under the firm guidance of
Lord John Russell. After Lord Spencer and Lord Clarendon
had declined to go to Canada Mr. Poulett Thomson accepted the
difficult post, and the great work of the creation of the Dominion,
with which his name is inseparably connected, was begun.
Lord Mel- ^^ ^^^ about to make a legislative union of
LOTd'john the two provinces. We feel that we cannot
Russell. impose this union upon Lpper Canada without
A^'iff 2 h^^ consent, and therefore we give her a choice.
1839. -^g giyg Lower Canada no choice, but we im
pose it upon her during the suspension of her constitu
tion. This is a great difference and a great inequality,
and will produce dissatisfaction. But all in both pro-

¦ CANADA 445
vinces who are for a union are for such a union as
shall deprive the French Canadians of all weight and
influence by disfranchising the rebellious districts, or
by some penal and exclusive measure of that character.
If we pass the Union without such an accompaniment,
and in such a manner which gives the French any
power or weight in the representative assembly, we
shall not have a man for it in either province ; and
what are we to do then? We shall not be able to
persevere in our measure ; and how are we to recede
from it ?
The Union was carried during this session ; but it was only
by the exercise of great administrative skill that Mr. Thomson
(created Lord Sydenham in 1840) was able to bear down oppo
sition. Lord Mel- ^ ^^ vcry much obliged to you for your letter.
Mr™ou° I never thought anything of the clamour which
lett "Hiom- .^g^g raised, nor did I ever expect that it would
son. Down- " ^
ing Street, };^ave much effect in Canada. The Canadians
November26, 1839. cannot be so stupid and ignorant as they were
represented to be by their worthy friends and corre
spondents here.
The time for operations is, as you say, very short.
Speed and expedition are highly desirable, if not abso
lutely necessary, but stiU I strongly caution you against
buttering (?) over your business imperfectly, as Dur
ham did, for the purpose of finishing, or rather of
appearing to finish it. . . .
I have this day seen your letter to John EusseU, by
which I am glad to perceive that you go on weU and
are in good spirits, though beset with difficulties and
not very weU provided with the means of overcoming
them.

446 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Mel- ^ RETURN you Thomsou's letter. It is not en-
LoTjohn couraging in its details, and it is desponding
December ^^ ^^s touc. What I do uot like is his saying
28, 1839. ^i^^^^ jf ]jg fj^j^g ^^ |.]^g Union,, all is up. For
God's sake tell him not to feel that, but to make the
next best arrangement. If he suffers all ' to be up ' in
his hands, all will be up with him and with those who
sent him too.
On December 12, 1839, Mr. Thomson wrote a long letter to
Lord Melbourne describing his difficulties. He could not depend
on his Ministers, and in the House of Assembly there was not a
single leader who could command a dozen votes on any subject.
Mr. Poulett ^HE Govemmeut is in a state which passes aU
toLOTd"" belief. With a vast deal of patronage, and
Melbourne, -^[^-j^ ^]-^g pgQple not merely greedy of place, but
attaching extraordinary and undue importance to the
least demonstration of Government power, it is utterly
powerless. It can scarcely^ command two votes in the
Assembly or the Council ; nay% worse, its own officers
vote against it daily. It has never taken the slightest
lead in the introduction of measures of legislation, or
attempted to guide the proceedings of Earhament ; the
result is that the Assembly has usurped many of the
rights of the Ci'own, that the most disgusting jobbery
has prevailed, the finances have been ruined, and not a
single measure really beneficial to the province generally
has been carried through. The departmental adminis
tration is, if possible, worse stiU. There is no system,
no control. The public offices are most of them de
faulters, and the business in the utmost confusion.
It will take time to remedy aU this, but the Union
will afford the opportunity, because the whole system,
both Earliamentary . and departmental, must then be

CANADA 4ir
broken up and remodeUed ; and if for no other, purpose
than that the Union would be most desirable. But it is
so on many other grounds ; and from what I see in both
provinces I am satisfied that if we fail in carrying it
you may as weU give up the Canadas at once, for I
know no other means of governing either. With it I
beheve that you have still a fair chance of keeping
them for a considerable time, and of their being valu
able to you ; and every year that they remain under you,
if they are properly^ governed, will make them less
willing to join the American Union and more monarchi
cal. For some time to come, however, you wiU not be
able to withdraw a soldier. Nothing but the presence
of so large a force keeps the Yankees in check, and it
must at the least be kept up, if not increased. So Baring
must not calculate on any reduction for regulars on this
side of the Atlantic. In the Militia and Volunteers,
however, I hope that a great saving may be effected.
The demoralisation of the people by the use of this
force is terrible, and it will be long before the effects
of aU this soldiering without discipline upon the
habits of the rural population ceases to be felt, apart
from the expense, which is about twice as much as
regular troops.
I am ashamed of writing you so long a story, but
you may like to hear how I find matters.
E.S.— December 15, 1839. — I opened my letter to
tell you that the Legislative Council has voted resolu
tions in answer to the message agreeing to every
thing ! I send them and an account of the proceedings
to Lord John. The Assembly wiU give me infinite
trouble. They have done nothing yet. But I hope
you wiU be satisfied that I have not misspent my
time here.

448 LORD MELBOURNE-S PAPERS
However, before his great administration came to a closs
Lord Sydenham wrote in a very different strain : —
I HAVE not written to y^ou for a long time;
Sydenham howcvcr, Lord Johu will have communicated
¦to XjOTQ
Melbourne, to you anything which was of interest in my
Govern- procecdiugs here, and I dare say you are of
House, opinion that the best governor is one who gives
Kmgaton, . „ a ^"
June 27, the Icast occasion for his name or his acts coming
before the pubhc in England. On that score I
hope you will have been satisfied both with my per
formances and my silence. If Earhament is stiU sittino-
you will, however, hear the word mentioned again,
a propos of my declarations about the financial assist
ance you promised us, and, therefore, it may be satis^
factory to jou to know that the first test of the Union
Act has more than answered my expectations. I always
considered the first start of the United Earhament as
the touchstone of the plan. The entire want of ac
quaintance with each other's feelings, character, political
history, or state of parties which prevails with the in
habitants of Lower and Upper Canada respectively
always made one feel that the opening was the crisis of
the great work, if not as regarded its success ultimately,
at least as concerned what must be one great element
of success even then — the opinion which would be
formed in England, where people look only to the great
features of any colonial case. I have therefore been
very nervous upon this point, and the more so as I
found that within the last month an attempt was making
to throw everything into confusion, and at least ensure
a stormj^ opening. My officers (Ministers !), though the
best men, I believe, for their departments that I could
find, even if it had been in my power to choose them,
were, unfortunately, many of them unpopular from

CANADA 410
their previous conduct, and none of them have the
most remote idea of the manner in which a government
through Parliament should be conducted. So they could
not render me any assistance, and, indeed, were rather
a clog than not. I have, therefore, had to fight the
whole battle myself, and it has been a considerable pull
both to one's adroitness and temper. The result, how
ever, has been the most complete success. I have got
the large majority of the Blouse ready to go through
fire and water with me, and, what is better, thoroughly
convinced that their constituents — so far as the whole
of Upper Canada and all the British part of Lower
Canada are concerned- — will never forgive them if they
do not. We have had discussed all the great topics —
the Union, responsible government, every subject on
which excitement might have been raised, and the
agitators have entirely and signally failed. Except the
rump of the old House of Assembly of Lower Canada,
and two or three Ults and Eadicals who have gone with
my Solicitor-General, whom I have got rid of, every
member is cordially with me and my government.
Thus we shall go quietly to work at the measures of
improvement which I have proposed, and we are sure
of a peaceful and useful session. The government
officers will have time to acquire practice in their new
vocation. The English and French members will learn
to understand each other's real views and opinions, and
the result wiU only be to increase the majority which
the government now has, and under the new system
perfectly stable.
I am not, therefore, over-sanguine in assuring you
that the experimentum crucis is over and has entirely
triumphed. If you send a good man— not a soldier,
but a statesman— to take my place when I am obhged
G G

450 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to retire at the end of the session, he will have but little
trouble, for everything will be in grooves, running of
itself, and only requiring general direction.^
' Lord Elgin was Lord Sydenham's successor. Lord Sydenham died
from the effects of a fall from his horse before he left Canada.

451

CHAPTEE XIII
FOREIGN AFFAIRS
1837-1811
The commencement of the new reign was not marked by a
new departure so far as foreign affairs were concerned. Assist
ance was still given to the constitutional party in Spain, and
Lord Palmerston's attitude towards the autocratic powers, es
pecially Russia, was one of coldness and suspicion.
Lord Mel- ^ HAVE obtained a return of the military^ and
LordJotoi ^^val forcc UOW scrviiig upon the coasts of
windsOT Spain, and here it is ; but whatever the force
September ^^J ^^ ^^ surcly wiU iicver do to withdraw or
7,1837. materiaUy diminish it now — and upon what
ground or pretext can we do it ? We cannot say that
the cause of the Queen of Spain is flourishing and
secure. We are not prepared, I presume, to give it its
death blow by declaring that it is hopeless. If we say
that we act because the Spaniards do not conduct their
affairs well and prudently, that we have known a long
time, that we knew when we began, and to complain of
it now would be to dispirit Spain and to lose all the
httle advantage we may have obtained by the assistance
we have given her. It might not be prudent to admit
that the exertion is too much for us, and that we are so
weak at home and in our colonies that we cannot spare
the force. I see no ground that we can take that will
not be injurious, dishonourable, and consequently

452 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
dano-erous. You will ask whether we are to continue
this expense for ever, or throughout the long struggle
which may yet take place in Spain. To that I say that
I agree wdth you in being unwiUing to do any more
than we have done, and I should certainly prefer seizing
the first fair and safe opportunity of extricating our
selves altogether ; but to withdraw at once now would
be to hazard much future expense in the Eeninsula, and
to lower ourselves in the eyes of Europe by abandoning
our own policy without any reason except that it had
not been so successful as we anticipated. Our conduct
would be attributed to its true cause — namely, our own
increasing difliculties and our internal apprehensions—
and would greatly encourage our enemies, who are the
whole world, to press us for further sacrifices and conces
sions. I am aware of the state of the country — perhaps
really more alarmed about it than many others — but I
do not think this is the right way of meeting dangers.
In the following year, however, the British Legion was dis
banded, and the civil war gradually came to an end.
The strained relations with Russia were the result of a long
series of high-handed proceedings, chiefly at the expense of the
Porte. During 1837 and 1838 war seemed possible if not
probable, and, as usual, the agents of the Czar were particularly
active in the countries adjacent to the Himalayas.
Lord Mel- ^HE Eersiau business is serious, and may have
Lord Jotoi ^''-I'ious consequences. The Eersians assaulted
frtember Herat o^ July 28, and were repulsed with
26,1838. great slaughter. The assault was directed, by
Simonitch, the Eussian ambassador. On the other hand,
our Eesident has been sent away from Cabul,^ and both
Cabul and Candahar have joined openly with the Ber-
' Bnrnes left Cabul in April, finding that Dost Mohammed had passed
completely under the influence of the Russian agent, Vicovitch.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 45.3
sians, the latter having concluded a treaty with the
Shah, under the guarantee of the Eussian ambassador.
This being the case, it is thought that the Shah, not
withstanding his repulse, will persevere in the siege of
Herat. McNeill ' has written to Auckland to press him
to send more men to Herat, to the amount altogether
of five thousand, and even to make a movement into
the interior of Eersia upon Ispahan and Teheran. It
appears to me impossible to give directions from hence.
It must be left to Auckland's judgment. But if he
should follow McNeiU's advice it may bring us into
collision with Eussia and Eersia. . . .
Lord Auckland, acting on the advice of the military autho
rities in India, had already recommended that operations against
Persia should be confined to the occupation of the island of
Karak, and the defence of Herat was left to its garrison and the
valour of Eldred Pottinger. It was determined instead to
counteract the machinations of Russia by an expedition into
Afghanistan, which was to restore Shah Sujah to the throne
from which he had been deposed by Dost Mohammed. Disas
trous as were the results of that determination, it was approved
at the time by every military authority of repute, notably by the
Duke of Wellington. Thane you for this ; '-^ it is a very sensible paper.

Lord Pal
merston t
Lord Mel- ""¦'¦^ ^a-i^^c a. q

merston to g^^^ takcs a good practical view of the matters

September ^^ qucstiou. The rcsult seems, on the whole,
9, 1838. |-Q ]-,g favourable to the course which Auckland
is pursuing, and shows that the Persian Gulf is the
place for a demonstration and diversion, but that
Afghanistan is the quarter where our strength must
be employed for real defence.
' Envoy Extraordinary to the Persian Court.
2 Lord Pahnerston's letter is endorsed ' On the Duke of WeUington's
Memorandum on our relations with Persia.' The memorandum, how
ever, has disappeared.

Russell.Wmdsor Castle,October 13,
1838.

454 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Mel- TiiBRE is a good deal in Howick's letter, and I
Lor™john sli^U, of coursc, scud it to Palmerston. He wiU
be able to state facts with more certainty, but
it is my impression that McNeUl remonstrated
with the Shah quite sufficiently^ to justify any
measures which we have taken or may take. Howick's
letter is not onlj well but, upon the whole, temperately
reasoned, and I am inclined to agree with much of his
general argument ; but it will not do to rely upon ar
gument against actual force, against the equipping of
fleets and the hurry of armies. If we do we run the
i-isk of being in the plight of that man who suffered
flogging whilst his counsel was arguing that the court
had no power to inflict that punishment upon him.
McNeill went upon that sort of general reasoning when
he told us the Persian army could not keep the field for
so long a time before Herat, and you see the result.
The course which Howick recommends as to the troops
at Karak is exactly that which we have adopted ; and
though it appears to me necessary and tending to peace
to make a remonstrance to Eussia, I quite concur with
Howick that that remonstrance ought not to be couched
in a haughty or even an unfriendly tone, because Eussia
certainly may issue a counter-manifesto, the tone of this
country, of the Earhament, and of the Government
having been very hostile to her both with reference to
Eoland and to Circassia,^ and some steps having been
taken which, in my opinion, were uselessly irritating.
With respect to interference in Afghanistan, Howick
will differ, and what he saj-s is plausible ; but I am afraid
' Violent language had been used in the House of Commons about the
occupa'iion of Cracow and the affair of the Vixen, a British merchantman
which had been seized by the Russian authorities on the coast of
Circassia.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 455
his pohcy wiU not do in the least. If aU Afghanistan
becomes hostile how long wiU Eunjeet Sing^ remain
friendly, and how long wiU the various nations within
our own frontier remain quiet ?
I agree with Howick in being very unwilling to lay
down that there must be war between us and Eussia, and
even if I came to that conclusion I would, upon the
whole, delay it as long as possible. But it will not do to
rely rather upon her weakness than our own strength ;
nor can I by any means consider the Turkish and Eolish
campaigns a proof of that weakness. The Turks offered
a most desperate resistance, a much more desperate one
than I fear they wiU ever make to an attack again ;
and the Eolish army is one of the best in Europe,
and backed by the whole population of the country^
Howick's policy is well, if we have time and temper for
it, but it is a policy which is not within our power, and
Eussia may force us to depart from it at any moment.
I HAVE desired Ealmerston to send you the
The same . • -i ^ a
to the despatch which Eozzo has received from St.
same. -"¦ . .
Wmdsor Eetersburg-. It is so important that you ought
Castle, . ¦, . 1 T n T 1
November to SCO it, and it bcars a good deal upon tlie
11, 1838. ., . ° <. 1
latter and most important part oi the paper
which Tavistock sent me this morning, I mean the
augmentation of the navy. The Eussian despatch is
evasive as to the past, and gives bad reasons and makes
false excuses for the course they have taken ; but for
the present and future it is satisfactory. Its propo
sitions are, that Eussia should engage by aU means in
her power to restrain the Shah of Eersia from further
ay-gression in Afghanistan ; that we should retire west
wards from Karak, and that hereafter we should act
' The founder of the Sikh power at Lahore.

456 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
together in concert at Teheran with a view to the pre
servation of the peace of Central Asia. All this is very
well, and there cannot be any doubt that we ought to
lose no time in closing with the proposal. At the same
time the measures which have been taken by Eussia have
been so decidedly hostile, and have so evidently only
been arrested and prevented by our firm language and
decided attitude, that we could hardly venture to trust
— if, indeed, we ever could have done so — either to her
friendship or to her moderation. That Baltic fleet of
hers is a most awkward feature in our present position.^
It is such an armament as never existed in the world
before. The ships are all ready^, and the men can be put
on board them at a day's notice. AU other fleets — at least
I believe so — require a considerable time before they
can get their crews. It is impossible to consider the
country safe whilst this force is so near. At the same
time, to be always in a state of war preparation, if it be
not as bad as war, is at least losing half the advantages
of peace. I write you this on account of the importance
of the matter. It does not require any immediate
answer. In the following year the high-handed proceedings of the
Chinese authorities at Canton, especially their destruction of
some 20,000 chests of opium belonging to British merchants,
compelled us to declare war against the Celestial empire.
Lord Pal- Thesb papcrs seem long, but are not so long as
Lord*Mei-° ^^^^J loo^j ^^'^^ tlicy rcquirc to be read.
bourne r^^^Q practical questions which arise out of
September 1 ^
23, 1838. them are : —
' It is remarkable how this Baltic fleet seems to have alarmed the
authorities. There was a report in 1839 that it was intended for an attack
on India, but the Duke of -Wellington was of opinion that its destination
was the Mediterranean. (Torrens, ii. 281 et seq.)

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 457
1. Will the Government adopt or reject the responsi-
bihty undertaken by Captain EUiot in the name of the
Government for the 20,000 chests of opium ? ^
2. If the Government rejects that responsibihty,
will it leave the suffering parties to their fate ?
3. If the Government adopts the responsibility,
will it simply propose to Earhament to make good the
amount, or will the Government consider the engage
ment taken in its name by Captain EUiot as an engage
ment to compel the Chinese Government to make good
to the parties the losses which they have sustained ;
founding the demand against the Chinese Government
upon the outrageous nature of the proceedings resorted
to by the High Commissioner Lin ?
4. Will the Government, when it makes its demand
for compensation to the persons whose property has
been thus forcibly seized, accompany that demand by^ a
further demand of a treaty placing the intercourse of
British subjects with China on a footing of security for
the future ; and also by a demand of apology or re
paration of some kind for the gross indignity put upon
the officer of the British Crown by the whole tenor and
character of these proceedings ?
5. If such should be the determination of the Go
vernment, what are the coercive measures which can
most easily and effectually be put in force to compel
acquiescence on the part of the Chinese ?
6. The measures hitherto suggested are a rigorous
interruption of the coasting trade of China.
The seizure and detention of aU their coasting vessels,
said to be extremely numerous.
' Captain Elliot was our agent in China, and it was on his responsi
bility, and with the understanding that they would be repaid by Govern
ment, that the British merchants surrendered then opium to be destroj'cd
by the High Commissioner Lin.

458 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
The seizure of some of the islands on the coast,
including the town of Amoy, which is upon an island.
No very large naval force would be required for
these purposes. Two sail of the line and some smaller
vessels would be sufficient ; and troops enough might,
without difficulty, be sent from India.
There is one line-of-battle ship in India, and another
and a large frigate are ready to go out, and might
touch at Buenos Ayres on the way, to assist the nego
tiations going on there.
With a war with China on our hands we were in some
danger of coming to blows with the United States, the most
burning of the topics under dispute being the boundary ques
tion. Lord Pal- This is the letter of a man^ who does not know
Lord'Mei-° ^ii^ch about wliat is doing in the matter he
bourne. -writcs about ; who is very heartily frightened,
22,1840. g^g g^j^ American, at the idea of a war with
Eiisrland ; and who thinks that the most advantageous
way of avoiding war would be to persuade England to
give up the whole matter in dispute. It would be easy
upon this principle for any country to ensure peace to
the latest day of its existence, though that day might
not be Yerj far off. I am, however, extremely incredu
lous as to the warlike disposition of the Americans as
to the disputed territory. I know from several persons
last year that they were in a very great fright at the
idea that what the Maine people had doiie,^ and what the
Congress had said and voted, would produce acts of
' Jacob Harney, or Harvey, mentioned below.
- The State of Maine decided to include in its census some of the m-
habitants of the disputed territory, and the authorities of New Brimswick
promptly arrested the returning officer, Ebenezer Greely. He was released
by the Canadians out of gratitude for the strict neutrality observed by the
State of Maine during the Canadian rebellion.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 459
resentment here ; and when the steamer came out and
brought them no news they felt like culprits reprieved.
They are now bankrupts from one end of the Union to
the other, and are in no condition to volunteer an
unnecessary war.
Mr. Jacob Harney may think that we are losincr
time by collecting information in support of our claim,
and I believe most of the Americans think that this is a
labour they would as lief we had not taken ; but it was
a step absolutely necessary as a foundation for any
further proceeding, and it wiU turn out to have been a
great advantage to us. AU this, however, is no reason
for unnecessary delay ; but I did not get the report of
the Surveying Commission tiU Saturday night ; I spent
the whole of Suiida}' in going through it with Fetlier-
stonhaugh, and I have ordered it to be printed for the
Cabinet, and I think it ought to be laid before Earha
ment and to be communicated to the American Govern-
lueiit. It quite knocks over the American claim, and I
think it sets up ours; and surely if the unanimit}- of the
Americans in favour of their own claim is founded,
as Jacob Harney, the New York Quaker, sa}-s, upon a
universal belief that their claim is just, one way of
breaking uji that unanimity must necessarily be to
show them that their claim is erroneous.
Meanwhile, the long-expected crisis in the East liad occurred.
On June 21, 1839, the Turkish army was utterly defeated at
Nezib ; on the 29th the Sultan Mahmoud died, not without sus
picions of assassination, and the Turkish Admiral sailed off with
his fleet and handed it over to Mehemet Ali. It was evident
that, unless the Powers intervened, the empire was on the edge
of dissolution. As soon, however, as the subject of intervention
was broached the French hung back and made difficulties of
every sort. Lord Palmerston promptly resolved to pi-nceed

460 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
without them, and on July 15, 1840, the Quadrilateral Treaty
for the protection of the Porte was concluded between Austria,
England, Prussia, and Russia, on the one side, and Turkey on
the other.
During the ensuing months the condition of affairs was
extremely grave. We seemed to be on the brink of a war with
France ; nor, with the exception of Russia, were we sure of our
allies. The Cabinet was of divided opinions. Lord Holland, true
to the Whig traditions, clung to the French alliance, a policy in
which he was supported by the Whig Mentor, Mr. Eli ice, and it
was not long before they received the powerful support of Lord
¦John Russell and Lord Clarendon. Under the circumstances
Lord Melbourne's course of action was full of anxieties, and the
' Greville Memoirs ' contain a highly coloured description of his
doubt and despondency. But Greville's opinion is that of a
strong partisan. Lord Palmerston, writing on October 8, said :
' I have heard, in a way that induces me to believe it, that
Charles Greville is bestirring himself with some activity on
behalf of the Thiers and Ellice cabal.' As a matter of fact,
Lord Melbourne, though fully alive to the dangers of the situa
tion, seems to have taken the correct measure of the resistance
that Louis Philippe was prepared to offer, and to have shaped
his course accordingly, keeping the Cabinet together, and giving
the Foreign Secretary a free hand.
Lord Mel- ^ RECEIVED your iiotc ycstcrday and showed it
LOT™john to Palmerston. I send you what he says upon
Windsor the subject. Difference of views necessarily
Castle ][gj^^g ^Q different conclusions. But you must
August ^
19, 1810. i^j |-Q jQXix account the great violence and im
prudence both of the English and French press,' and
the irritation consequent thereon. Affairs look awkward.
Leopold showed me the letter of the King of the French,
which is in the tone of a man much hurt, and very sore,
and also much puzzled, perplexed, and annoyed with
his situation. He expresses himself with great reserve,
and leaves it open to himself to take any course here
after. Guizot came here yesterday. He will see both

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 401
Leopold and Ealmerston to-day, and I shall bear from
both what he says, and the tone in which he speaks.
Much will depend upon this.
The Duke of Wellington came on Sunday and went
yesterday. He was in high good humour. I saw him
yesterday morning, and he conversed with me very
frankly. Fle said that our policy was right — that it
was our business to maintain the Forte — that he had
himself suggested that we should do so — that the
terms offered to Mehemet Ali were reasonable— that
he himself thought that he ought to be confined to
Egypt and have no part of S3u-ia, so as hereafter to
possess the power of invading the whole. But he
added that the present situation, occasioned b}' the
tone and armaments of France, was most critical and
dangerous — that nobody^ could anticipate what would be
the consequences of a war — that every effort ought to
be made to avoid it — that the peace of Europe never
could be safe while France was out of the alliance of
the Great Bowers — that every effort should be made to
get her again into action with us, and that the only
measure he could think of for this purpose was a
general treaty for the establishment of the Forte on the
principle of keeping the straits mare clausum, and for
maintaining the Forte in sufficient power and strength
as guardian of that principle. He says he is cominced
that France was not deceived, but that he [Louis
Philippe] had not sufficient official information of what
was goinff on, and of that he had taken advantage.
AU that he says is very weU about getting France
again into harness ; but how the devU is that to be done?
The tone she has taken, and her armaments, wiU drive
Mehemet to the rejection of our proposals. The means
we have of carrying them into effect by force are quite

/

402 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
inadequate to that end. The Duke of course pressed,
as he has always done now for two or three years, the
insufficiency of our force.
Lord Pal- I OWN I do uot agTce with John EusseU about
Lord^Md-" the tone of the Chronicle, which seems to me
Au^giTst to be judicious, and which I beheve to have
18, 1840. been very useful at Earis. ^
If the French attempt to bully and intimidate us as
they have done, the only way of meeting their menaces
is by quietly telling them we are not afraid, and by
showing them, first, that we are stronger than they are,
and, secondly, that they have more vulnerable points
than we have. I do not think that any coinjiarison
of forces which I have seen in the Chronicle is at all
exaggerated, but on the contrary the statements which I
have seen in that paper of the naval means of the two
countries seem to be borne out by the French account
which was published last week of the French navy, and
by the statement which I saw in the Globe of Saturday
of our own navy.
Guizot was told by me so long ago as July 17 what
our immediate measures would be ; but when people
threaten you with armaments you cannot show them
the instructions to your commanders in the same way
you could to a co-operating ally.
There is a good letter from France to-day in the
Chronicle, worth reading.
Lord Mel- GuizoT lias becu here. He was rather touchy
Lord John and high, and like a man who thought himself
winctsor Called upon to support his dignity. He neither
' The Morning Chronicle was strongly Palmerstonian, and Lord
Palmerston inspired some of its most trenchant articles, if he did not
actually write them.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 4G.T
Au'ust 21 ^P°^® to me nor Palmerston upon politics, and
1840. ' Ealmerston did not like to begin with him, as
he considered himself as having received from him the
decision of the French Government upon the state of
affairs, and thought it imprudent to act as if he supposed
any change had been made by the conferences at the
Chateau d'Eu.^ Ealmerston, however, will go up to
London to-day^, and has Guizot to dine with him, when
probably some conversation will take place. Ealmerston
returns here to-morrow, and on Monday he -will go to
Tiverton until the end of the week. Granville and
Bulwer write that the warlike feeling is still strong in
Earis, and that Macaulay^, who arrived from England
strongly impressed with the notion that war was im
possible, had a good deal changed his opinion.
Leopold goes on Monday.^ He has been most anxious
to devise some means of doing that which the Duke
of Wellington suggests — viz. of merging our treaty^
in some larger transaction, to which France may be a
party. Guizot and Thiers are both favourable to this,
and so are Bulow and Neuman,^ and it seems to me
' Guizot came over as ambassador in February. His impressions
were freely recorded in his Memoires, of part of which an English trans
lation was published in 1862 under the title of An Embassy to the Court
of St. James's in 1840. In it are to be found many interesting allusions
to Lord Melbourne, whom Guizot considered ' a judicious epicurean, an
agreeable egotist, gay without warmth, and mingling a natural air of
authority with a carelessness which he took dehght in proclaiming. " It
is all the same to me," was his habitual expression.' Of his visit to
-Windsor he writes : ' During my stay I neither exchanged with Lord
Palmerston nor Lord Melbourne a shigle word on politics ; they addressed
none to me ; I neither uttered nor courted any. Lord Palmerston seemed
a little subdued ; Lord Melbourne, contrary to his habit, had a thoughtful
air.' The conferences at the Chateau d'Eu, between Louis Philippe,
Thiers, and Guizot, took place on August 11 and the two following days.
"^ The King of the Belgians was naturally alarmed at a possible war
between his niece and his father-in-law.
^ The Prussian and Austrian ambassadors.

104 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
the only way out of it, and Ealmerston is not averse
from it. !
Our 'revenue is at present going on very ill. The
falling off in the present quarter is, up to the 15tliinst.,
more than half a million — nearly six hundred thousand
pounds, notwithstanding our increased duties.
The Bishop of Chichester is dead. What are your
notions about a successor ? It puzzles me. Wrio,^ who
is here, is more determined against it than ever.
A comparison of the French and English fleets was not
particularly reassuring.
I HAVE been thinking much and anxiously of
Lord Minto r t n it-
to Lord the Mediterranean fleets, and I wish you to
Melbourne. ''
Private. kiiow liow WO Stand m order that you may
Admiralty, .
August 23, make up your mmd as to the course we are
to take. The French have at present fourteen
ships of the line in the Mediterranean. We have twelve.
They have four more in an advanced state of forward
ness, two of which, it is supposed, may be ready for sea
about a fortnight hence. We have two large ships —
Rodney and Vanguard — which I hope may sail for the
Mediterranean about the end of this week or early in
the next. The numbers will then stand : French, six
teen ; English, fourteen.
Before the end of September they wiU probably get
two more of their ships to sea, and about the same time
I should hope to have the Britannia and the Calcutta in
the Mediterranean, which will bring the numbers to
eighteen French and sixteen Enghsh ; and here I am at
the end of my present resources for at least a couple
of months to come, or, at the very best, I cannot hope
before that time to add more than one three-decker to
' Lord -Wriothesley Russell, Lord John's half-brother.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 405
the above-mentioned numbers. The French say that
they intend to have twenty-five ships of the line at sea.
In the meanwhile orders have actuaU}^ been received in
their dockyards to fit out five more (beyond the eighteen)
with aU possible expedition. This will undoubtedly
require a considerable time, but how long must depend
a good deal upon the success of their levies for the
crews. At this point the French will have brought
forward every serviceable ship they possess in the water,
though they have many on the stocks ready or nearly
ready for launching. My impression, however, is, that
they wiU find the greatest difficulty in raising above
twenty or two-and-twenty ships of the line actually at
sea — a number which, with a little time, we could very
easily double. But up to that point they must have
the start of us, and with continuaUy increasing advan
tage, if no corresponding exertions are made on our
part to keep pace with their extraordinary efforts. Such
of the French ships as have been some time at sea —
probably about twelve sail of the line — are in very high
order, and in aU respects most efficient men-of-war.
The French fleet is also generaUy composed of larger
ships than ours, so that the relative strength of the two
fleets is not exactly to be measured by the number of
ships, though the difference in the force of the French
and English ships is not nearly so great as is usually
supposed. Our Mediterranean fleet is in the highest
state of order and efficiency — weU manned and well
armed and well trained ; but the ships have only got
their peace complements.
With regard to the ships more recently commissioned
on both sides, there can be no doubt that the advantage
in point of efficiency must be greatly in our favour,
the French conscripts being invariably raw hands,
n II

466 LORD MELliOURNE S PAPERS
unused to a man-of-war, and our crews being in the
greater part composed of men-of-war's men and thorough
bred seamen.
Now, then, the question is. Will y^ou be satisfied with
the sixteen or seventeen sail of the line which I may be
able to furnish with my present means, whilst the
French are pressing forward the equipment of a superior
force ? or do you feel it to be necessary that we should
take such measures as may establish our naval superi
ority ? The difficulty here is one of men and money.
At this season men are the most scarce, and we have
nearly exhausted the supply of such as can be procured
in the usual way and without incurring a good deal of'
expense. So that at best we cannot expect to recruit
very rapidly, although we may, by extraordinary exer
tion, make considerable progress, such as would enable
us to send our ships to sea more expeditiously as the
season advances and more seamen come into the market.
But the ships we are aheady bringing forward wiU
exhaust and more than exhaust our vote of seamen, as
I think the ships in the Mediterranean must receive
their war complements, and though this wiU be partly
effected by an addition to their marines, it wiU require
not much less than a thousand sailors to complete them.
I am not at aU afraid to overstep our vote a little for a
time ; but I mention these things to make you under
stand that, if we are to keep pace with the armament of
France, it can only be done by measures which must
lead to the assembling of Parliament in the course, pro
bably, of five or six weeks ; and I confess it to be my own
opinion that we should not be justified in allowing France
to obtain even a temporary superiority at sea. Indeed,
I believe that our best chance of a continuance of peace
will be in the greatness of our force in the Mediterranean.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 407
When you have considered this question I should liice
to know your opinion, for it is one that does not admit
of much delay in our decision.
Lord Mel- I RECEIVED your letter yesterday, and have
LoTjoba sent it to Ealmerston. Our position is most
Windsor disquieting, and, from the inadequacy of our
Au'^tt26, fo^c® to effect its objects, highly dangerous. I
"*" send y'Ou a very clear and distinct letter which
I received yesterday from Minto upon this subject. I
should not feel quite easy if we had only the Egyptian
and Turkish fleets ^ to deal with, but if the French are
combined with them we are evidently quite unequal to
do anything, and may suffer disaster, which would be
ruinous to us and most injurious to the country.
We might caU in the assistance of the Eussians ; but
that would be lowering, and if they were successful
they would be masters of us as well as of others.
But how to get out of this with credit and safety
I do not see. Mehemet Ali will not accept the offered
terms. My opinion is that he would not have yielded
to the five powers. He certainly will not to the four,
particularly considering the tone and attitude which
France has taken. If he were to yield it would settle
the matter ; but it is not to be expected. If he does not
absolutely reject, but proposes counter-plans, and after
hesitation, this would offer us a way out of it ; and this
appears to me the best chance that we have. If he
breaks out into violence and aggressive measures it will
bring matters at once to a crisis, and God knows what
events may happen, or what they may produce. I do
not, however, expect that this will happen, and I hope
1 That is the fleet which Achmet Pasha had handed over to the
Egyptians. H H 2

40? LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
it may not, as we are but ill prepared for^ it. If he
remains in the attitude of passive resistance, he wiU
puzzle us as to what step we shall take next. Whatever
we propose to do France wiU object to, and then wiU
come the question between us. We can hardly modify
our terms, and France cannot join us to enforce them.
If we modify our terms, Eussia will immediately break
off from us and resume her right of separate action,
which our policy has been adopted in order to prevent.
AU this constitutes a most difficult complication. I have
just got your note of the 24tli. I do not think that
Palmerston wiU concur in such a communication being
made at present, and I am afraid that it would lead to
no result, as France would certainly demand something
for her- accession, in order to justify and explain it to
her people. She would ask some considerable modifica
tion of the terms ; and this would at once leave Eussia
out of the alliance, which is as bad as leaving out
France. I feel a difficulty about appointing a dubious man,
like Shuttleworth or Pearson, on account of the Chan
cellor, whose brother is such a sort of man and has been
excluded on that ground.
The Chancellor has behaved about it admirably, as
he always does ; but he feels it, and I hate to annoy
him. I incline very much to the Archdeacon of Lewes,
the Eev. C. Julius Hare.^ He is a great friend of
ThirlwaU's — translated Niebuhr with him, preached his
consecration sermon — has lately published sermons
against Fusey's leading doctrines, and is a most dis
tinguished divine. He was appointed archdeacon by
Bishop Otter, who had the highest opinion of him, and
therefore he is acquainted with the diocese, which, as
' The brother of Augustus Hare, and the author of Guesses at Truth.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 469
far as it goes, is an advantage. He was rather a violent
Liberal, but it is supposed that his opinions have lately
undergone some modification. I send you a letter which
I have received from Lord Chichester respecting him.
You may say it is running too much upon Trinity
CoUege, Cambridge ; and so, perhaps, it is. But Trinity
College produces ten able men when any other seminary
produces one, and ought to have a proportionable share
of appointments. Adieu.
I hope you are weU. For myself, I can neither eat
nor sleep for anxiety,^ and I suffer much more from the
pressure of responsibility during the recess than during
the sitting of Parliament.
Wrio is most dogged and determined in his Nolo
episcopari. He says he shall be more fit for it in two
or three years. I suspect this to be with the hope of
escaping it altogether.
Earl of I ^^^ Guizot ycstcrday ; he was as sulky as
toLord"'' 6^^^ "^^th the policy which he says has put all
AnguttTi^' Europe a la merci des incidents et des subal-
1840. ternes ; but his language was pacific, though
he declared that the preparations for war were very real
and proceeding with all possible activity. Two things,
he told me, had struck him much when he was in France
the other day — one, the complete change of opinion
among the juste milieu, people and tlie capitalists of
Earis (he appears to have met many of them at Eu and
some other sea place wdiere he went to join his family),
who are, he says, indignant that, after all their efforts
during the last ten years to maintain peace and the
aUiance between the two countries, the one should
1 A phrase quoted by Greville. But the whole letter is not particularly
alarmist.

470 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
be endangered and the other wantonly thrown over
without a thought or a care for the danger of various
kinds to which France would be exposed by such a
course ; and Guizot feels convinced that these people
would be found to make sacrifices and vote supplies for
war even more readily than those of the Gauche, who
have been making the clamour. The next thing that
struck him was the altered tone of the King, who said
that for the first time since he had been .upon the throne
he foresaw the possibility of war, and that he was de
termined to be prepared for it in a manner suitable
to the honour and power of France. Still, however,
Guizot said that le fond de la pensee du Roi was Peace,
and that he would only accept war when some act of
the allies rendered it dangerous for him to brave
public opinion, and therefore a matter of unavoidable
necessity-. He said that the King's sentiments towards Thiers
were unchanged ; that he hates and mistrusts him as
much as ever, but that he gives no countenance to the
intrigues of Mole ^ and others against him, and is
resolved not to quarrel with him unless Thiers insists
prematurely upon driving him into war, in which case
il le brisera, let the result be -what it may.
Guizot, whose tone in speaking of Thiers was not
friendly, said he had strongly advised the King to ad
here to this course, but he does not think the case will
arise ; that Thiers is acting cautiously, and appears, as
much as the King, to be alive to the embarrassment of
his position, and not knowing how to do enough to
satisfy public opinion without doing more than is coii-
' A prominent politician, who had been First Minister from April 1837
to March 1839, and the author of some remarkable Essais de Morale et
de Politique.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 471
sistent with the preservation of peace, which both seem
to have at heart.
Guizot read to me the whole of Ferier's report to
Thiers of his mission to Alexandria,^ and I must say
that the instructions of the French Government appear
to have been httle characterised by undue friendship
towards the Easha, and that the language used in sup
port of them was as energetic as if the whole had
emanated from our own Foreign Office. Eerier writes,
and admits he does so, under feelings of some irritation
against Mehemet Ali, upon whom neither he nor Coclie-
let, the Consul-General, could make any impression ; and
his opinion was that Mehemet All's vanity was gratified in
thinking that he, a simple pasha and the vassal of the
Sultan, was able to defy the whole of Europe, and that
as he had all his life been in the habit of risking every
thing for the object he had in view, and had never
yet failed in attaining it, so Eerier feels confident that
on the present occasion he wiU pursue his accustomed
system. Guizot said he had learnt with extreme satisfaction.
from Ealmerston (who had communicated it to him
with affranchise qu'il n'oublier ait jamais) the abandonment
of the commercial blockade, as it was from that he most
apprehended coUision ; though how the Convention, re
duced to a blocus militaire, was to eject Ibrahim Easha
from Syria he said he was at a loss to conceive ; but he
added, if upon the Convention having become a dead
letter some fresh arrangement is made to which France
is no party, or if the English Government attempts a
second insurrection in Syria, and furnishes arms to the
^ Perier's and "Walewski's missions seem to have been perfectly
genuine, though according to Bulwer {Palmerston, vol. ii. p. 314) theur
object was to urge Mehemet AU to violent courses.

472 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
insurgents and lands troops to assist them or to take
possession of Candia, or a Eussian army is permitted
to enter Constantinople, that he knew a lamentable
effect upon pubhc opinion would be produced in France,
and he should then think the prospect of maintaining
peace extremely problematical.
Madame de Eleven -^ told me the Emperor was plus
que satisfait; not that he cared anything about the
Sultan or the Easha, but that he had effectually broken
up the alliance between England and France, which he
detested.

Mr E They may^ write and lie about me as they will,
..EUice Lord]
bourni September

"'liorTMei- ^ ^^^^ ^t Still luy duty to do aU in my power to
bourne. prevcut morc mischief than is inevitable from
16, 1840. -Qy^Q present crisis ; and I, therefore, again beg
y^our attention to the Observer newspaper, received to
day, of the 13th. Are some of our madmen ready dis
posed to urge the violence of the old ruffian (as they
call him), Mehemet Ali, and, seeing no other way out of
the pass in which they have involved us, to force on a
general conflagration and bury themselves in the ruins ?
Whether these articles are directly furnished to the
Obse7-ver, or written by the inspiration of such parties,
I know not ; but I do know that Mr. Scanlan, the editor,
is paid for them out of the money under your control
from the Civil List secret service mone)^ and you have
it in your power either to moderate their tone or to
stop the supplies. The ' insensate blustering of any
' The wife of the Russian diplomatist. Prince de Lieven. She played
a prominent part in English society from 1812 to 1834, when the Lievens
were recalled to St. Petersburg. After her husband's death, in 1836 or
1837, she estabhshed herself in Paris, where she became the Egeria of
M. Guizot. She was ordered to leave France during the Crimean "War,
but her return was connived at, and she died in Paris in 1857 {Greville,
vol. viii. chap. xiii.).

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 473
nation ' can only still further irritate the people on the
other side of the Channel, and the true observations in
the article headed ' Eeace or War,' on the state of society
in Earis, would have suggested themselves with much
greater advantage to some parties before they made
up their minds to set the match to their elements of
combustion. Louis Fhilippe and all his Ministers, past
and present, required our assistance to keep the embers
of other times and feelings asleep — not to ignite them.
It cannot be that men were or are so blind as to
believe the causes to which they ascribe the resistance
either of the French nation or of the French Ministers
to this Eastern Treat}". Lord Granville surel}-^ has not
kept you all so much in the dark with respect to
public feeling in France, and the pledged opinions of
all classes of politicians. You cannot have been so little
aware of the detestation in which Eussia was held in
the country, from the conduct of the Emperor both to
the Eoy^al Family ^ and to the nation since the revolu
tion of July, not to have expected the necessary conse
quences of your Anglo-Eussian aUiance ! God knows
what this escapade of the Foreign Office is to bring
upon us, or whether we may stiU escape what we de
serve from it ; but let no man say we did not indulge
in it with our eyes open. ... In dealing with this
case you have to deal with the nation — neither with
the Court nor the Minister. I believe that any change
will be worse for you ; for if the direction of affairs went
for a short interval into what would be caUed anti-
national hands, there might be a very short respite
before it got into revolutionary ones, and then, ' Stand
by the sheets.'
^ The Czar treated Louis Philippe as a usurper, and refused to address
him as Mon Frere.

474 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I have not the least doubt that those who have
prompted these counsels are at this moment more than
ever confident in the vigorous wisdom and successful
result of them ; and that I and others who saw in them
only the beginning of evils, of which no man could pre
dict the termination, are held in as great contempt as
our opposition to them has been considered factious
and unreasonable. It is clear that neither party can
now have much influence, though both much the same,
in the course matters may take ; but it is the duty of
both to avoid increasing ' the odds ' apparently against
a happy issue, and I, therefore, trouble you with this
letter. Lord Mel- ^ HAVE rcceivcd your note. I have not yet
Lord'john teard from Ealmerston upon the subject of
Windsor your proposals, which I sent to him; but I
September ^'^^'^^ ^^o doubt that I shaU very speedily.^
16,1840. Pqj. heaven's sake do not be precipitate;
consider this matter well.
You have been a consenting party to the Conven
tion ; you cannot, upon slight or subordinate grounds,
withdraw yourself from the consequences of it.
EecoUect the serious results which must arise from
the breaking up of the Government now — the certain
failure of the policy, and an insuperable difficulty thrown
in the way of any succeeding government.
If the British Government is broken up by the mere
bluster and threats of the French, and by the sole ap
prehension of a difference with that country, what will
be the impression, both upon Europe and upon France,
of their strength and courage, of our weakness and
humility ? ' See the next letter.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 475
It wiU encourage France to such a degree that, even
if it staves off war now; it will produce it very shortly.
T ., T. , -'¦ ^^^^ yoi-^ 3, note from Clarendon showing
Lord Pal- " ~
merston to what soiuc of the Frcnch really think about
Lord Mel- •'
bourne. our treaty.
C T
September I saw y^cstcrday a private letter from Earis,
16,1840. .,_,,.'' -^ '
saying that ihiers now says that he does not
wish for a naval war, which would not be ad-\'anta'2:eous
to France, but that he means to have a Continental war.
That to undertake this with advantage he must have
600,000 men, and that he cannot have such an amount
of force on foot tiU next spring. On the other hand,
Apponyd ^ says, as you will see, that Louis Fhilippe told
him in the openness of his heart that the result he
looked for from the war excitement in France was to
get out of his faithful subjects a sanction for the fortifi
cation of Earis, which he had long wished for, but had
hitherto not been able to obtain. All this does not look
like war ; indeed all the letters received during the last
two days from Earis say that war is not expected.
The French tried to intimidate us, and thus to pre
vent the ratification ; having failed in this they will lie
by and wait for any serious difficulty we may experi
ence in the execution of our plans, and then they will
try to interpose their good offices.
AU JOU say in your letter of the 14tli is quite true
as to the reluctance of some members of the Cabinet
and the lukewarmness of others ; but then I think that
when a Cabinet has agreed to a system of measures
they ought to give that system fair play, and not to
raise impediments to its execution in the detail of the
measures by which it is to be effected, and that hidividual
¦ Count Apponyi was the Austrian ambassador at Paris.

476 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
members of the Cabinet ought not, as Lord Holland
does every day of the week, to speak openly to all who
come near them about the policy and measures which
the Cabinet of which they are members is embarked.
in, just as a member of Opposition would speak of the
policy of an administration which he was labouring to
turn out. In the present state of the question this does
not do so much harm, because the matter is now to be
decided in the Levant ; but stiU the effect is damaging
to the Government, and in my humble opinion not much
to the credit of the good sense and proper feeling of
self-respect of the individuals by whom such language
is held. I find it wiU not be possible at the present moment
for the representatives of the five contracting parties
to the treaty to communicate it by a coUective note to
Guizot. Both Neumann and Brunnow ^ feel objections,
which I think well founded.
They say that they are not in any official relation
with Guizot ; they, like him, are accredited to this
Court, but any official communication to be made by
either of their Courts to the French Government would
naturally be made either at Earis by their ambassadors,
or at Vienna and Eetersburg to the ambassadors of
France. That when a conference is estabhshed the
case varies, and then aU the members of the conference
are expressly and officially placed in formal relation
and communication with each other.
But Brunnow has another objection to any direct
communication in the shape of a coUective note from
the four or the five to Guizot, which is, that Guizot
' Baron Brunnow had been sent by the Czar on a special mission to
England in September 1839. He was afterwards Eussian Minister in
London, notably at the time of the Crimean "War.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 477
might possibly be instructed to reply to such a note,
and that his reply might require a rejoinder ; and that
the Emperor and our Government might not agree as to
the terms of such rejoinder. The Emperor might want
to put in something which it would not suit us to sign ;
other unnecessary and inconvenient differences might
arise between the four pov^^ers. Moreover, Brunnow
says that when I first mentioned the idea to him he
wrote to Nesselrode ^ to ask for instructions about it ;
that those instructions have been announced to him,
but have not y^et been received, and that, having asked
for them, he cannot give them the go-by and act without
them. Under these circumstances it seems to me that
the only course to be pursued is that I should, on the
part of the English Government, communicate to Guizot
a copy of the treaty now that it has been ratified ; and
this would seem to be a natural step, as a consequence
of my having communicated to him the fact of the
treaty having been signed ; and accordingly I inclose a
draft of a note for that purpose. I send it to you by a
messenger, whom you can send on to John Eussell for
his opinion on the matter.
If the note is to go, the sooner it goes the better.
Lord Mel- All that you Say is vcry truc. It is absolutely
Lor™joka ueccssary that we should have a Cabinet soon.
winSoi Earhament stands prorogued until October 8.
Castle, Whether it shaU be further prorogued, and to
September ^ '-'
19, 1840. what period, is in the present state of circum
stances a matter of so much importance that it cannot be
decided without a full consideration. I have therefore
' The Russian Minister for Foreign Affairs. Count Vitzthum, in his
St. Petersburg and London, has some amusing stories of the supreme
contempt with which Nicholas regarded him, as being of German
parentage.

478 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
desired Fortescue, who is gone to London this morn
ing, to tell them to issue summonses for a Cabinet upon
Monday the 28th inst. This will leave sufficient time
for the insertion of the proclamation in the Gazette. I
hope that you will approve of this.
I agree with you that the avoiding of the war, if it
can be done with honour and safety, would be well
bought by a change of government, though that I be
lieve would be an evil. But it was weU said by Mr.
Halford the other day at Leicester that the real danger
of the interruption of peace arises from the unquiet and
aggressive character of the people of France, and if this
be at all encouraged by^ success and by our yielding,
though we may stave off war at present, we shall only
render it more certain within a short time.
I think the warlike symptoins are decreasing daily.
The language which Louis Fhilippe has held to Apponyi
is very extraordinary. After apologising for the vivacity
of Thiers, and saydng that allowance must be made for
him, as an author and journalist, and therefore accus
tomed to put things strongly and so as to strike, he said
that his great object had been, by means of this war-cry,
to carry two points which were very necessary — the one,
the strengthening the naval forces and increasing the
army ; the other, the fortification of Earis — both of which
the parsimony of the Chambers had hitherto prevented
him from effecting ; pretty strongly hinting that the
latter measure, the fortifying Earis, was not directed
against foreign powers.
This language appears to me not to have been very
prudent, but still one is loth to think oneself more cun
ning than Louis Fhilippe.
His o.bject was, by showing great confidence in
Metternich, to induce him to originate some proposal

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 479
which should settle the whole matter and get him out
of the scrape. Leopold has also written to the Queen
in the same tone, as I understand, for I have not yet
seen the letter, but shaU do so to-day, and complaining
that we show no disposition to assist in extricating the
Government of France out of its difficulties.
I have a letter from Ellice. The Observer news
paper vexes him cruelly — much by what they say
against him, more by what they say^ against Thiers.
I almost labour under the disadvantage of never
having read the Observer. Eeople who tell Ellice are
continuaUy writing themselves in the newspapers, think
of nothing else, and they immediateh' perceive what is
put in by the editor himself, and what is sent to him by
others. I FORGOT* in my other letter to mention to vou
The same ' . . ".
to the what had been done with respect to notifying
Windsor thc Couvcntion. The enclosed letter from
September Ealuierston will tell you. His note to Guizot
seemed all that could be wished, and therefore,
as I thought it of importance that it should go without
delay, I did not send it to you as he desired, which
would have caused delay. I send you Ealmerston's
letters, that you may see his frame of mind. Nothing-
induces a man to keep his own temper so much as the
observation that others either have lost or are likely to
lose theirs.
The talking at Holland House is irremediable. They
cannot help it, and they are not themselves aware how
much they talk. In 1827 Canning said, 'But what
shall we do with Lady Holland in the Cabinet ? '
The Duke of Bedford is a good adviser for principles
and opinions, but bad for action. AU advisers are

480 LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
dangerous. They encumber the free exercise of the
understanding and substitute autliority for reason.
We must count upon Mehemet Ah's last pro-
J. lis SEITII.6 J-
to the positions sent by Walewski being absolutely
^indsor aud at once refused by the Sultan. ^ Ponsonby
September wlU do his utuiost to bring this about, and so
wiU the Eussian Minister ; and I think I have
observed through the whole of these transactions that
the Eussian influence generally predominates at Constan
tinople. If we notify to the four other powers that we
are ready to accede to these proposals if they are, we shall
do this knowing that the Porte is unwiUing, 'and we
shaU advise the Porte to accept terms which they have
already refused.
Our communication to the four powers must be firm,
or it will have no effect in cooling down the present
heats ; and if it is known that such is our opinion, will
it not entirely decide the question ? Will the Pasha or
France ever relax, or have any reason for relaxing
afterwards ? Your resignation, and that of so many
who must and who would foUow you, must ensure the
failure of the policy and the humiliation of the country.
France, seeing such an effect produced by her
measures, would of course redouble them, and both the
Easha and she would persevere more strenuously in
their present course. It is idle to suppose that it must
not break up the present Government and place the
' Mehemet Ali stood out for the hereditary possession of Egypt and
Syria for life. "Walewski, the natural son of the Great Napoleon by a
Polish lady, and afterwards Minister of Foreign Affairs under Napoleon
III., began his diplomatic career with this mission to Alexandria, the
object of which was to bring the Pasha to reason. Lord Ponsonby, our
ambassador at the Porte, was taking a very strong line of action, and
persuading the Sultan to reject all compromise with the Pasha.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 481
country in the hands of the Conservatives. You would
resign on account of unwiUingness to engage in war with
France, and so many would be sure to follow your lead
upon this ground that it would leave the fraction of
the Ministry totally unable to go on. They could not
form a coahtion. What is then to be done but to resort
to the other party ? You say you would strongly advise
her not to do this, not to go to Feel — by Feel I suppose
you mean his party — but who is she then to go to ? Try
to reason this out practically.
I sent your letter to the Queen, and I send you the
note which I received in reply, and which expresses her
feelings upon the subject. I shaU be in town to-morrow,
early. I SEND y^ou Ealmerston's memorandum. I think
X jQ.6 SctJJJ.6
to the he is right with respect to Eonsonby. Sending
same. or j fri
Windsor another person out at this moment would have
Castle, ^
September aU tlio cffccts wliicli Ealmcrston points out. It
would seem to disavow and retract the whole
of our policy, past, present, and future, and would cast
a damp upon the cause of the Sultan which it would
never recover.
With respect to an armistice, it appears doubtful to
me whether there be any hostilities to suspend.
The question of a communication to the French
Government is more doubtful. Metternich's suggestion
that the French Government should re-enter into the
alliance by declaring its adhesion to the iirinciple of
that alliance, viz. the support of the Sultan, without
retractino- its objection to the forcible execution, appears
to me the most plausible course that has been sug
gested. We can, however, make no proposition to France
I 1

482 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
without obtaining the concurrence of the other powers ;
and it would, therefore, be no immediate measure, nor
any escape from present dangers. If Thiers, in order to
obtain from Mehemet Ali concessions, has, as he says
he has, promised him the support of France if they are
not accepted, he appears to me to have placed affairs in
a more dangerous position than that in which they stood
before. Syria is the whole of the question, and his
demanding it for Ibrahim is, in fact, demanding it
hereditarily. After the Queen's express direction I should .
The same ¦ <. -r • • -i
to the not, even if I were inclined, feel justified iu
same. , .
South Withholding her opinion from y^ou, and after
septeiiiber souic liesitatiou I scud you the whole letter,
29, 1840. . ., ¦'
trusting to your candour.
It sounds as if I had condemned both you and
Ealmerston as obstinate and wrongheaded, but this is
not the case. I only Avrote on Sunday evening that I
had seen you both, and that I was sorry that I did
not perceive much approach towards an agreement in
opinion. There is certainly a great difficulty in making a move
in ignorance of the actual and present state of affairs
in the Levant. The measures will by this time have
virtually either failed or succeeded. Affairs will have
assumed such an aspect as will enable you to foreteU
the ultimate result with certainty.
If we have failed, it wiU be better to have made the
overture before we knew of the failure. If we have
succeeded, there wiU be no humiliation in offering to
concert with France, which we have said that we should
be ready to do, upon the execution of the Convention.
I have written to Palmerston to suggest this view.

foreign affairs 483
At the same time I cannot help feeling that it will be
a great degradation to give up the main objects of the
Convention, accompanied as that gi-ying up will be by
the menaces and preparations of France. I think we
shall suffer in general estimation, and consequently in
power and influence, and France will be encouraged to
resort to the same measures upon other occasions ; which
wiU have a great tendency, to say the least, to bring on
war at no very distant period.
The Cabinet came together on September 27, and after
several meetings it was agreed that overtures should be made
to Prance.
Lord Hoi- What the Cabinet determined on, or at least
w Mel- intended, to-day seems, to my unfeigned delight,
Private qultc sufficicut to auswcr the great purpose of
mvbt'^*^ peace, provided it be conveyed to Paris speedily,
1840. gj^^ communicated in as friendly a spirit as it
is conceived. If you were, without loss of time (and
why should not you ?), to tell Guizot in a note that his
paper was received with pleasure as indicative of re
turning confidence ; that we had agreed ~to dissuade the
Sultan from insisting on the decheance of the Viceroy,^
and that when we had concerted with others the manner
of doing so we should immediately apprise France
formally of it ; that the guarantees for the balance of
power suggested in his paper seemed to meet the ideas
of your colleagues as a fair basis on which to work out
a permanent settlement — but in such a permanent settle
ment there must, of course, be no departure from the
letter or spirit of the treaty, though we and you hoped all
parties to that treaty would be ready and happy to dis
cuss with France the means of reconcihng our adherence
^ The Porte had decreed the deposition of the Pasha on September 14.
I I 2

484 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
to it with the views of France. If this, or half this,
were said promptly, and in the spirit of conciliation, it
is my conscientious belief that peace is secured. But
if formalities tend to delay, and if the communication
when made is to be made in the spirit of sticklino'
and haggling for a little more or less, and not in
that of confidence and reconciliation, then and in that
case I do not think you wiU avert the calamity. Any
reverse in Syria — and I cannot deem it improbable —
would destroy not only the grace, but the benefit
of such language or offer. It would be then more
humiliating than twice the quantity of concession now,
and, unless the French character is much altered, is
likely to meet with ten times more insolence than if
made in the moment of apparent though precarious
triumph. Cavil not for the ninth part of an inch, but give
what can safely be spared to a well-deserving friend.
What is given in that spirit and soon may really pur
chase good-will and re-establish confidence. Wliat may
be extorted from a niggardly hand, either by a reverse of
fortune or by hard and protracted bargaining, breeds
distrust and dislike, if not scorn and contempt.
So confident am I that peace is now to be had, and
so apprehensive am I that unless you strike while the
iron is hot the opportunity may be irretrievably lost,
that at the risk of boring you I have written this long
letter, to urge you to take it in your own hands so far
as to write in general phraseology the favourable result
of this day's Cabinet to Guizot. Two persons fully
authorised and equally disposed to come to an amicable
agreement might settle it in ten minutes, in a way
which would appease the French public, satisfy the
obligations of the July treaty, and secure the integrity

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 485
of Turkey and Egypt against all foreign aggression.
Liberavi animam meam. Good nio-ht.
Lord Mel- I H^^^^ tliis moriiing received yours from Bo-
Lor"john wood. You wiU probably have heard at the
Windsor same time of this melancholy and sudden event
Sotlber at HoUand Blouse.^ It must have affected you
23,1840. aU deeply, particularly you and Lansdowne.
Charles Howard writes me word that he has seen Lady
HoUand, and that she was wonderfully calm. Dr. Hol
land^ say^s that she is, as it were, stunned, and that it is
impossible to say how she may be when she recovers
from the effect of the blow.
With respect to the meeting of Earhament, I agree
with you that we may wait until we see the effect of
our last communication, and the tone of the speech of the
King of France upon the 28th ; if that tone is hostile,
surely we shaU have no alternative left.
You see the operations on the coast of Syria.^ They
have been prosecuted with much skill and bravery and
enterprise ; as much has been achieved as the force
could achieve, but I cannot say that I see reason to
be sanguine about the final result. Palmerston is quite
confident of clearing the country of the Egyqitians almost
immediately, and before there is any question of the
fleets leaving the coast. Eonsonby writes more madly
than ever. Better, he says, lose the fleet than abandon
the enterprise.
Guizot has been here. He goes on Sunday next,
evidently with the hope and design of supplanting
' The death of Lord Holland on October 22.
' The father of the present Lord Knutsford, and the author of the
well-known BecoUections of My Past Life, in which is to be found a
sketch of Lord Melbourne's character.
5 Beyrout was bombarded on August 29, and Sidon on September 20

4m LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Thiers. I had a conversation with him yesterday, in
which he said that they could certainly restrain the
warlike feelings of the French people at present, but
that he would not undertake to be able to do so if the
operations in Syria were protracted. By the way, upon
this point the French say one day one thing, and
another, another, just as suits the present object. He
evidently hinted to me to say something to him about
Syria — something conceding part of it; which, with
my knowledge of Ealmerston's opinion, confirmed by
the favourable accounts received yesterday, I was of
course unable to do.
You are right about the press. If it is, as it is, part
of the management of the foreign affairs, it ought to be
determined as a general question. But I have long
since given it up in despair ; I never see an article
which I entirely and in all respects approve. You say
Ave should adopt a tone ' firm without insult.' Certainly;
but did you ever know a newspaj)er adopt such a tone?
Are they capable of doing it? Is it in their nature?
I believe not ; at the same time I am sorry to say that
the Times, while equally hostile to France, has written
upon this subject in a tone far more proper and be
coming than the Morning Chronicle.
Hill ^ has been here this morning, and showed me
the Duke of Wellington's letter about Dover Castle and
the exposed state of the shipping in the Downs. I told
him that I thought he might safely send some troops to
Dover without fear of creating alarm.
The Duke of Wellington says that he feels secure
that Louis Fhilippe would not permit any violent act
of aggression ; but he say^s Louis Ehilippe's life has been
attempted,^ and who can answer for any succeeding
' Lord HUl, the Commander-in-Chief. " By Darmes, on October 15.

,,J, J

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 487
government? He adds, but can we trust to Louis
Ehihppe's power? When Thiers was Minister before,
he ordered troops to be assembled on the frontier of
Spain without the King's knowledge and against his
opinion. Why may he not give a similar order with
reference to England now ? There is much shrewdness
in this. I have not time to read this over.
It was evident that the supreme moment had arrived,
Thiers, towards the end of October, announced his intention of
calling out an extraordinary conscription of 150,000 men, and
of summoning the Chambers for the sanction of fresh military
preparations. Lord Melbourne saw that something must be
done, and at once addressed a strong remonstrance to Louis
Philippe through the King of the Belgians.' Unfortunately no
copy of the letter has been preserved. But there can be no
doubt that it was couched in language befitting the occasion.
Lord Palmerston's free version, given in 1865 to Mr. Hayward,
was : ' Thiers's announcement is a threat. By God ! I won't
stand it. If this goes on T will immediately call Parliament
together, and see what they think of it.' The version given by
Ilaikes, and corroborated by Victor Cousin, then a Minister of
Louis Philippe, who saw the identical letter, is even more out
spoken : ' If France persists in her hostile armaments England
will take very summary measures to halaijer them at once.'
The result was immediate. Louis Philippe declined to coun
tenance a warlike speech on the opening of the Chambers, and
the Thiers Ministry came to an end.
Lord Palmerston was naturally jubilant : — ¦
Lord Pal- King Leopold's letter confirms what I have
wMeL often said and have long believed— namely,
ar™^' that the French armaments have been a mau-
' ' I have written to Leopold to represent as strongly as I can the diffi
culty in which the armaments of France place us, and to urge him to
persuade her to relax both her language and jireparations ' (to Lord John
Russell, October 20). The letter must have been written about the ICth.
It will be observed that Lord Melbourne on the 23rd was not aware of
Thiers's resignation on the 20th. Guizot himself was not fully informed
until the 24th {Greville, part ii. vol. i. p. 343, foot-note).

488 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
October oBuvre for the purpose of producing an effect
25 1840. XX X o
beyond their reality, in fact, a mere trick;
and that while the French Government were trying to
frighten all Europe into concession by pretended arma
ments, they were, in fact, not doing more than completing
their regular peace establishment, which has of late
years been let down below its proper amount. But
this shows how weak and iU-informed those people have
been who would have had us give way to threats of war
which rested upon no solid foundation ; because, in truth,
those armaments which the French Government and its
friends in England have tried to represent as the in
dications of war were, on the contrary, proofs of the
incapacity of France to make war, because they proved
that her actual force is below even her peace estabhsh-
ment, and it is clear that, before she can make war, she
must have a war establishment. Therefore this letter
of Leopold's, if the statement which it contains is
correct, brushes away at once the whole web of decep
tion about imminent war by which some people have
endeavoured to blind our eyes.
Another remarkable point is the manner in which
what has happened since that letter was written has
shown the fallacy of the argument which it contains —
that the King could not get rid of Thiers without the
greatest danger unless Thiers should be outvoted in the
Chamber. Instead of that the King has got rid of Thiers with
the greatest ease, and Thiers, it seems, is going, not into
bitter opposition, but to cultivate the fine arts and to
write more histories in Italy. Depend upon it this
retirement of Thiers is only another act of the melo
drama which he and the King have been for some time
past playing. The King gave Thiers permission to

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 480
bully and swagger and threaten, and to gain all he
could by so doing, provided he did not go to the extent
of war; and the King himself played" up to Thiers's
acting in this respect, and by hints and innuendoes, and
hopes that he should not be forced, and fears that he
should be forced, and assurances that he would stand
out as long as he could, but that he could not answer
for events, did aU he decently could to back up Thiers
and help his stratagem.
But it was manifest from the beginning that if Thiers
did not succeed in frightening us he would be obliged to
go out ; and could not meet the Chamber as Minister.
Because, though he had carefuUy abstained from any^-
tliing that could commit the King with foreign powers
t)ii the question of peace and war, he had been obliged, .
in order to play up to the lamps, to commit himself
personally with the public in Earis. Well, we have stood
firm, and have not allowed ourselves to be made dupes ;
and therefore Thiers goes out. The question then was,
how he was to get off the stage. He could not go off
kneeling any more than the dramatis personce in the
' Critic ' ;' and so, according to the most approved method
of getting the hero away, he went off in heroics.
If you remember, Seymour ^ told us a fortnight ago
that he knew the Queen of the Belgians had heard from
her family that Thiers was to propose things which he
knew beforehand the King would not agree to. And so it
has been, and a very well-arranged wind-up it has been ;
' After the prayer to Mars : —
Puf. You could not go off kneeling, could you ?
Sir Walter. O no, sir, impossible !
Ptiff. It would have a good effect, i' faith, if you could exeunt praying.
Yes, and would vary the established mode of springing off with a glance at
the pit.
^ Sir Hamilton Seymour, afterwards Minister at St. Petersburg.

490 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Thiers saves his consistency with the French people, and
the King saves his pacific relations with Europe. Soult
having been the person who made all those pledges and
declarations about Turkey which tied up and embar
rassed Thiers, he comes into power again, and can act
up to his own pledges without any embarrassment what
ever ; and if the King does not succeed in getting from
us in formd pauperis and out of our compassion those
concessions which he has been unable to extort by
threats and from our fears, he will find no difficulty
with his present administration in acquiescing in any
settlement of the Turkish question which the four
powers may insist upon as conformable with the
treaty. The temporary excitement which the King
aUowed Thiers to get up may for some little time be
an embarrassment to the French Government ; but the
Eeace party is beyond comparison the most powerful,
and when the Government throws its weight into that
scale there can be no doubt that it wiU preponderate.
With respect to the general treaty which King Leo
pold speaks of, I conceive that you would be quite
ready to conclude a treaty, in conjunction with France
and the other powers, for affording to the Sultan, for
a limited time to come, support against internal and
external danger — assuming always that the present
questions are first to be settled according to the treaty ;
and I really think that you wiU find the whole matter in
Syria satisfactorily arranged in the next two months.
As to what the Duke of WeUington has written to
King Leopold, I do not see how he could have said
anything else ; but it does not seem to me that the civil
expressions of the Duke, writing out of office, from
Walmer, ought necessarily to be taken hterally by us
as a ii'uide for our conduct.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 491
Just as matters seemed to be improving, Lord John Russell
discovered that Lord Palmerston had declined the Austrian pro
posal of a congress for the settlement of disputes, and it was
with difficulty that he could be prevented from resigning. >
Lord Mel- I HAVE just received your letter. I think you
Lord"john take the despatch to which it adverts much too
Sor seriously. It was not intended, as I take it, to
ootobersi, ^^Ject aU negotiation for the future, but meant
^^^°- to say that at the present moment it was not
prudent to establish such a congress.
I am sure that if you think seriously for a moment
you will not take the step which your letters seem to
intimate. We have now a prospect — and it appears to me a
very good one — of settling this matter amicably. Your
retiring would overthrow this at once, and the arrange
ment which y'ou mention would have the effect of
deciding the question of peace or war for the latter.
I am sure that you will not sacrifice the interests of
the country to an offence of your own, however great
it may be.
Lord Mel- ^"^ ^^ almost usclcss for me to say anything.
Lo™johQ ^ou have, of course, considered all the grounds
windsOT ^^^ consequences of such a stej) before you
November determined upon taking it at such a moment.
1, 1840. J,. jj2ust, of course, break up the Government.
You will be considered as resigning for peace, and so
many will follow you in that view that the remnant
will be quite unable to undertake the affairs of the
country. Supposing what you meant to intimate in
your letter, which I received yesterday, were to take
place  that your place could be filled, and Palmerston
1 Greville, part ii. vol. i. p. 345.

492 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
substituted for you in the House of Commons, and no
others change — I own I shall be unwilling [to continue]
my present responsibility under the impression which
would be created in France and Europe by your retir
ing and Ealmerston's remaining and acquiring additional
weight and infiuence.
What I mean by a fair prospect of settling the affair
is this. If we were to succeed promptly in Syria — which
I do not expect — the affair could be arranged.
If we are compelled to withdraw our force and sus
pend operations — which I do expect — it is quite evident
that the Cabinet will be for taking measures to settle
the difference by negotiation. To these measures Pal
merston, I think, would very likely not have agreed;
but that, in my opinion, would have been the time for
bringing matters to the decision to which you are
bringing them now.
I sent Ealmerston your letter of yesterday, and de
sired him either to write to you or to see you about it.
I will come up to London to-morrow, and should be
glad to find you — at any rate on Tuesday morning.
Louis Philippe was most anxious that something should be
done to give the new Soult-Gruizot Ministry a status, and a
significant passage from one of his letters to the King of the
Belgians was transmitted to Lord Melbourne : ' — ' Ne nous y
trompons pas. Le point de depart c'est le renverseraent ou la
consolidation du ministere actuel. S'il est renverse, a' est laguem
a tout prix suivie d'un 1793 perfedionne. S'il est consolide, cost
la paix qui triomphe. Mais il faut se depecher, car vous savez
que les tetes gauloises sont bien mobiles.'
The question, however, was to be fought out in the Levant.
1 There is nothing to show how the fragment, which is signed by
Louis Philippe, was communicated to Lord Melbourne. The whole letter,
the date of which is November 0, is to be found in the Bevue Betro-
spective, a coUection of secret documents made pubhc after the revolution
of 1848.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS 49,3
Early in December the news of the fall of Acre reached London,
and with the submission of the Pasha the period of suspense
came to an end.
Lord Mel- ESTIMATES must depend upon circumstances.
w joti If the East is settled, as I trust it wiU be, and
December mdced Is, it wiU, of coursc, be unnecessary to
9, 1840. i^ggp ^p Q^j, present force in the Mediterranean,
or any^thing like it. But if France persists in her pre
sent armaments, in having twentj'-five sail of the line
ready for sea, backed by an augmented army^, we must
have an equal, and I think we ought to have a superior,
fleet. The country must pay for safety and defence.
Meanwhile the Chinese war had been dragging on, and after
the mouth of the Canton river had been forced, Captain Elliot
concluded a preliminary treaty with the Celestial Government.
Lord Mel- I RETURN y^ou Harvcy's letters. He is a very
LordJohn foollsh fcUow, but I had the same feeling for him
Do^iig that you have, and if you think that the ability
Aprifso, ^1^ ^i^s shown as Eremier of New Brunswick
1841. renders you secure in trusting to him New
foundland in its present condition, I have no objection.
Palmerston is much dissatisfied with the Chinese
treaty, particularly with the amount of indemnity and
the time given for the pay^ment of it, and so am I.
Ealmerston is, or was, for disavowing Elliot and the
treaty and renewing the demands which he was in
structed to make, but which it seems he never did make.
I have great doubts of this. The treaty as it stands
saves our honour and produces all the necessary moral
effect. To renew the war would keep the whole thing
alive, which it is of the utmost importance to close. If
we break a treaty clearly concluded liy our plenipo
tentiary the Chinese will be convinced that we never

491 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
meant to observe that or any other treaty ; and if-vre
should obtain a larger compensation, which is uncertain,
it certainly will not be so much larger as to pay for the
increased expense to which we shall put ourselves.
Lord Palmerston's views, however, prevailed, and Elliot was
disavowed and recalled.

49-j

CHAPTEE XIV
PATRONAGE 1835-1841
Lord Melbourne "s patronage cost him many an anxious moment.
He declined additional honours for himself, and, despite the
weakness of the Government in the House of Lords, he was most
sparing and scrupulous in recommending creations of peers.
' It will be apparent,' wrote Lord John Eussell to him in 1836,
' that you have been more moderate in your creations than any
of your predecessors.' He seems, though careless of State
papers of vital importance, to have carefully preserved all appli
cations for appointments and promotions, and his refusals of
demands which he thought unworthy of consideration were
couched iu terms of crushing severity. But bis answers would be
pointless without the names of the applicants, and those names,
for obvious reasons, it would be unfair to give. There was a
familiar reply of his to an earl soliciting a marquisate, which
began, ' My dear  , how can you be such a damned fool ? '
Of another seeker after honours and rewards he asked, ' Confound
it, does he want a Garter for his other leg ? ' To a colonial
governor who wished to take a title which would be reminiscent
of his administration he wrote, ' Is it not too much like Scipio
Africanus ? '
It was the same with his ecclesiastical appointments. ' Damn
it, another bishop dead ! ' is the manner in which he is related
to have received the news of a vacancy on the episcopal bench.
But the vacancy was not filled up without much deliberation ;
and Lord Melbourne is almost the only Premier of whom it can
be said that he was intimately acquainted with the writings of
those whom he promoted. Some of his motives are curious :—

496 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I take  to be a mere literary man ; and literary
men are seldom good for anything.
Dr.  is one of those men whom the Wliigs call
a Tory ; whom the Tories call a fair man, inclined to
Whig opinions ; and who calls himself a man of no poli
tics. Such men are for the most part, if not alwavs,
really Tories ; at least, quite unprepared to support the
Whigs in any measures of novelty or magnitude.^
I believe that I have been misinformed after all
about the Deanery of Exeter; and that it is in the gift
of the Crown. There is much application for it, and
 writes in the greatest anxiety, saying that they
want a man of the firmest character and the greatest
abilities to cope with that devil of a bishop, who inspires
more terror than ever Satan did. If it is in the gift of
the Crown Wrio shall have it, and I wish you would
write and tell him so. I think his aristocratic name
and title will be of advantage to him in his contest with
the Prince of Darkness, of whom, however, it must be
said that he is a gentleman.^ -
The outcry which followed the appointment of Dr. Hampden
to the Eegius Professorship of .Divinity at Oxford will long be
remembered. It would appear from the following letter that
Lord Melbourne bad already proposed to give him preferment.
Lord Mel- ^^0^ Consideration of all the names which we
bourne to rcviewcd, and of all the conversations which
Arch- ^
wi^'T'i ^® ^^^^ "^ London, it appears to me, upon the
Confiden- 'whole, that Dr. Hampden would be the safest
tial. South ' ^ ¦ 1 •
Street, choicc. It is probablc that the see which it
October ^ rv ' • i i i,
13, 18S5. xnay be in my power to offer him will be but a
poor one ; and I wish to know whether you could,
I To Lord John Russell, May 4. 1889.
^ To Lord John Russell, January 9, 1889.

PATRONAGE 497
without pledging me to make the offer, which is always
very inconvenient, ascertain whether, if it were made,
he would be wiUing to accept it. If you can quietly
obtain any information for me upon this point I shall
feel much obliged to jou for it.
I AM very much indebted to you for your letter.
Lord Mel- ' .
bourne to I ncvcr was morc puzzled with any decision
Archbishop ^ •'
Whately. that I had to make. I feel that the appoint-
Ecclesias- , ¦*- -^
tical Com- mcut, for rcasoiis, to many of which you ad
mission. . , . .
January vcrt ill yoiir letter, IS more important than that
25, 1836. c 1 1 • n m, •
of tlie bishop. The appointment is a lucra
tive one. . . .
Now it appears to me that a man should devote his
whole time to his professorship and his living, and
should not be also the head of a house, or be encum
bered with any other public occupation. I now beg
leave to submit to y^ou and ask your opinion upon a list
which has been given to me by^ the Archbishop of Can
terbury of persons whom he conceives to be best qualified
to succeed to Dr. Burton : —
Mr. Pusey, the Professor of Hebrew.
Dr. Shuttleworth, Master of New College.
Mr. Ogilvie, late FeUow of BaUiol CoUege, one of
the Archbishop's chaplains.
Mr. Newman, of Oriel.
Mr. Keble, of Oriel.
Mr. Miller, of Worcester CoUege.
Dr. Short, Eector of St. George's, Bloomsbury.
Dr. Goddard, Archdeacon of Lincoln.
From another quarter there has been mentioned to
me Dr. Cramer, Plead of New Inn HaU.
None of these names proving satisfactory, Lord Melbourne,
on the advice of Archbishop Whately and Bishop Copleston,
E K

498 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
recurred to Dr. Hampden. The Professor designate could not
hold his tongue until the appointment was confirmed, and the
fat was in the fire.
Viscount Melbourne presents his humble dutv
Lord Mel- -^ ¦'
bouineto to y^our Majcsty, and respectfully acknowledges
South your Majesty's communication, which Viscount
street, -n/r ti ' • n i • -i
February Melboume rcccived last night, and has this
15, 1836. . . Ti? . ,
morning submitted to y^our Majesty s confiden
tial servants.
Viscount Melbourne is verj much concerned to find
that any difficulty should arise in your Majesty's mind
with respect to the completion of the appointment of
Dr. Hampden to the Eegius Erofessorship of Divinity in
Oxford, which your Majesty had approved by your
letter of the 10th inst. addressed to Viscount Melbourne.
Your Majesty will feel that this question affects deeply
many great interests, both personal and political.
It much concerns, in the first place, the personal
honour and character of your Majesty's confidential
servants, and of Viscount Melbourne in particular, who
has made this recommendation. It touches stiff more
deeply the moral and religious character of Dr. Hampden
himself, seeing that it accuses him of not beheving the
Articles which he has signed and the faith which he con
tinues to profess. It tends to diminish your Majesty's
power and prerogative, by which the appointment to
this situation is vested exclusively in your Majesty,
without being subject to any other control or dictation
whatever. It seriously infringes upon the rights of
private judgment and free inquiry, which are the foun
dations of the Erotestant faith ; and it saps the great
principle of toleration, the great glory of this age and
of your Majesty's reign. Finally, it seriously endangers
the real interests of the Church of England, into which

PATRONAGE 409
it introduces schism and division, and which has already
enemies enough without b)- proscription or exclusion
raising up to herself others, and those amongst her
most eminent and distinguished children. . . .
Viscount Melbourne considered [the representations
and arguments of the Archbishops of Canterbury and
York] to be mere clamour and outcry ; and to unreason
able agitation Viscount Melbourne is very little disposed
to yield, whether it arise in uni\'er8ities or elsewhere.
Viscount Melbourne has some practical knowledge of
universities, and in his opinion there is in those bodies
as much bitterness, as much faction, as much violence,
as much prejudice as there ever was in any public
assembly or popular club, let them have been composed
how they^ may. ... To what do the charges against
Dr. Hampden amount ? That Dr. Hampden is known
to have expressed himself in printed publications in
such a manner as to produce on the minds of many an
impression that he maintains doctrines and principles
fundamentally opposed to the integrity of the Christian
faith. Is this sufficient ? Is his faith to be denied upon
such grounds as these — ' an impression upon the minds
of many,' without even stating whether in the opinion
of those who signed the paper the impression is just ?
There are innumerable impressions upon the minds of
many, but who ever considered such impressions as any
proof against the person whom they affected ?
Your Majesty wiU perceive that Viscount Melbourne
has already conversed with the Archbishop of Canter
bury, as weU as the Archbishop of York, upon this
subject, and that their opinion has not shaken his
determination to advise your Majesty to appoint Dr.
Hampden. Viscount Melbourne, in obedience to your
Majesty's commands, wiU again see the Archbishop of
K K l'

coo lord MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Canterbury; but unless his Grace can produce somethincr
much more decisive and cogent than any of his previous
arguments, your Majesty wiU perceive that it wiU be
impossible that Viscount Melbourne should alter an
opinion which Viscount Melbourne conceives himself
to have formed upon the soundest and most certain
grounds.
Archbishop When you ask whether Arnold is open to any
WMd-° reasonable objection on the ground of any
MvTte. heterodoxy in his works, and I answer— as I
February ^au without hesitation — certainly not, I have
21, 1836. literally complied with your lordship's request,
and if this is exactly all you want you may save your
self the trouble of reading what follows.
But I think it right to add this observation, that the
imputation of heresy (which you know exists aheady
against him) is likely to be kept up and urged, on as
good grounds as against Hampden, and in some respects
on very similar grounds : —
1. One cause is that both, being men of independent
mind, are accustomed to express even generaUy received
notions in such terms as seem to themselves most ap
propriate, without tying themselves down to hackneyed
phrases. Now, there is alway^s a large portion of man
kind who do not recognise their own opinions (so called)
when clothed in any unusual expression. And hence,
many conclude that a man differs from them even where
he does not if he varies his phraseology ever so httle.
2. There are many who cannot distinguish among
the opinions they hold what are and what are not
portions of the creed of their Church. . . . Whether the
Gospel of St. Matthew was originaUy written in Greek
or in Hebrew ; whether Eeter ever was at Eome ;

PATRONAGE 501
whether Eaul ever was in Britain, &c., are points on
which divines of our Church have differed and which it
has left open — though there must be a mistake on one
side or the other of those who have maintained opposite
opinions. But there are many men who, satisfied of
their own orthodo.xy, at once pronounce a man heterodox
who does not agree with them on every point. And this
is as common in other matters as in religion. ' Disloyal '
and 'unconstitutional' are terms just as rashly poured
forth bj' politicians (often in misjudging sincerity^) on
their opponents in respect of points in which, though
only one side can be in the right, both may be equally
constitutional.
3. Many trump up a charge of heres}^ disloyal tj^
or what not (and often bring themselves in time
sincerely to believe it) from some aversion to the man
on other grounds, whether of personal jealousy or dis
like to some otlier portion of his (real or supposed)
conduct or tenets. Arnold is a Whig. Hampden is not
a Tory. And he was for the relaxation of the subscrip
tion to the Articles at matriculation. Hence it is that
men now bring a charge of heresy against him which,
if they had been sincere and honest, they would have
brought before the regular tribunal three or four 5'ears
ago, when he was delivering before the University of
Oxford and printing at the University Fress the sermons
which they charge with Socinianism. How much the
same sort of feehng operates with regard to Arnold }'ou
may understand from a dialogue between a friend of
mine and a man whom I also know, holding a situation
of eminence in the Church, aud not more prejudiced
and narrow-minded than the majority, though much
more frank in his avowals. On hearing a high opinion
expressed of A.'s sermons he observed, 'How can you

502- LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
apply such expressions to the works of a fellow hke
that ? ' ' Because I think they deserve them.' ' Don't
you know what opinions he expressed on the French
Eevolution ? ' ' None at all in his sermons ; they do not
treat of the French Eevolution.' ' Oh, I can't bear any
thing that comes from such a man as that.'
I myself differ from Arnold in some important points,
while I regard him as one of the most single-hearted,
public-spirited, and amicable men in the world ; but it
is remarkable that those who hold him in the greatest
abhorrence have quite mistaken some of his opinions,
and do, in reality, agree with him on points in which I
strongly disagree, though his application and theirs of
their common principles are widely different. ... I
should like, indeed, to see the terms of our communion
enlarged, though not to anything like the degree which
A. proposes, who would introduce a mere nominal
agreement, leading only to a great increase of real
discord. . . .
I rejoice that your lordship has upheld (as it seems
to me) the prerogative against the attempt of a self-
constituted body of advisers aiming at a veto on the
appointments of the Crown.
Hampden wiU be much gratified at your just appre
ciation of his merits. When I consider who were among
the foremost of his opponents — that such men had been
recommended for such an office — I cannot but feel a
satisfaction in having given (though it was probably un
necessary) an opinion of them which experience has so
sadly verified.
F.S.— Hampden was chiefly unpopular at Oxford
from academical causes. I do not think he would
have been so much opposed as A. in appointment to
the bench.

PATRONAGE CCS
Lord Mel- "^^THOUGH I Cannot be expected to concur in
i)?Pusey. ^^^^^^y of the conclusions of your letter, and
South although I have read many of the statements
street, i • i • • •
February wfiicli it coiitaiiis witli the deepest concern, I
24, 1836. ^ T • T
lia-\-e yet derived great satisfaction from the
confidence and openness of the communication. I have
only to express my wish that I had received it before ;
that I had received it during that not short interval
which took place before I determined upon the appoint
ment of Dr. Hampden, and during those anxious en
quiries which I made in order to guide my judgment in
that important decision. I do not mean to imply that
the information that you have now imparted would, if it
had been then afforded, have altered my determination ;
but I certainly should have paid it that respectful
and serious attention to which its own weight and the
character and station of its author entitled it.
The understanding which y^ou describe to have pre
vailed ill the University respecting the measures which
I took and the persons whom I consulted is, like all
information collected from general rumour, partly true
and partly false. It would have been, in my opinion,
better not to have depended upon it, but to have
communicated privately that information of which
you thought it material that I should be in possession.
Eeople do not like others, however they may respect
them, to be apphed to upon their business, especially if
that application be for the purpose of controUing and
overruhng them ; and if you want a thing done, take my
advice, and hereafter go to the man who has to do it.
However, your letter has entirely removed any
feelino- of offence which might have arisen in my mind,
and I°am little desirous of reverting to the past, which
it is useless either to complain of or to condemn.

504 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
I entirely concur with you in the necessity of agree
ment, if it can be created consistently with other more
important objects, upon the greater points between those
who fill the theological chairs in the same university.
It is hardly necessary to go to Germany to learn so
plain and so obvious a truth ; and the theological
coUoquy (?) and rehgious behef which prevails in the
universities of that country is, if it be such as it is
popularly represented, not very favourable testimony to
the results of those institutions and to the manner in
which they are conducted. Uniformity of opinion,
however desirable, may be purchased at too high a
price. We must not sacrifice everything to it ; soundness
of opinion, reasonableness of opinion, extent of know
ledge, powers, inteUectual and physical, must also be
taken into account. Your principle would make the
opinions of the present professors the standard of every
future appointment. Before persons are chosen on
account of the consonance of their tenets with those of
the individuals who at present fill the theological chairs,
you must admit that we must a little consider what are
the tenets of those gentlemen ; and you are very well
aware that great alarm has been excited in the minds
of many whose authority I respect by certain tenets,
which have, I believe, been published anonymously, but
with which y^ou are supposed to have some connection,
and which are represented to me to be of a novel
character and inconsistent with the hitherto received
doctrines of the Church of England. I have not seen
the Tracts I refer to, and I should be glad to obtain
them ; I only speak from what I hear. I therefore
mean to pronounce no opinion upon them. I do not
myself dread bold enquiry and speculation. I have seen
too many new theories spring up and die away to feel

PATRONAGE 505
much alarm upon such a subject. If they are founded
on truth, they estabhsh themselves and become part of
the established behef. If they are erroneous, they decay
and perish.
The part of y^our letter which I have read with the
greatest pain is that in which jou designate the course
which may be possibly pursued by^ those who govern
your coUeges. I wiU not believe in such a determination
until it actually takes place, and therefore I will sa}' no
more than that, in my opinion, it is the dut}' of all who
think well of the Uni\'ersity, and who mean to act for the
furtherance of religion and in the spirit of Christianity,
to use their utmost efforts to make every^ possible con
cession ill order to avert such a result.
I return you my thanks for caUing my^ attention to
the general state of religious feeling in the country, and
to the deep interest which is taken in religious questions
and ecclesiastical appointments. Be assured that I am
neither unaware of its extent nor of its fervour, and that
I have not been a careless observer of its progress. I
doubt not that it is working for good, but the best and
most holy aspirations are Uable to be affected by the
weakness of our nature and to be corrupted by our
malignant passions. The danger of rehgious zeal is the
spirit of iUwiU, hatred, and mahce, of intolerance and
persecution, which in its own warmth and sincerity it
is too apt to engender ; a spirit to which, in whate\-er
form or place it may show itself, I have a decided
antipathy, and wiU oppose at aU hazards aU the resist
ance in ni}' power.
I WANT an Oxonian to make Bishop of Chi-
bo°"o Chester. I must have a man who wiU go with
tS^or us upon tlie Irish Church. I have named

506 LOED MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
S,nfidin- Longley ^ and Butler,^ who have both doubts on
Downing *^^ subjcct, to the great discontent of my sup-
jutys, porters. I cannot afford to be hberal again.
1836. Would Hawkins do ; and will he swallow the
shibboleth ? ^ Excuse the haste in which I write, and
the careless manner in which I express my^self.
Lord Mel- ^ ^^ "^^ry much obliged to you for your letter.
the Aroh° I ¦^'^s aware of the translation of a German
cant?r-°* ^ssay upou thc Gospel of St. Luke,* a work
Soutii published by Mr. Thirlwall fifteen years ago,
jSn'9 ^^^' ¦'¦ ^filieve, but am not sure, before he was
1840. [y^ orders. I will further admit that my know
ledge of this publication, and my fear of the offence
which it might have given, have inclined me to defer
for some time recommending Mr. Thirlwall to that pro
motion in the Church which I was told from all quar
ters that he deserved. I have not read the essay
through my^self — to do so would require more biblical
training than I possess, and more time than I can give
— but having curiously looked at it I certainly think
that it was not prudently selected for translation ; and
the Bishops of Ely^ and Chichester, who have at my
request examined the work, tell me that there were in
the preface some passages respecting the inspiration of
the New Testament which they considered objectionable,
but at the same time they seemed to think that the
' Dr. Longley had been appointed Bishop of Ripon earlier in the
year. He was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1802-^1868.
^ Dr. Samuel Butler, Head-master of Shrewsbury School, who became
B'shop of Lichfield m 1886.
^ Dr. Hawkins apparently would not swallow the shibboleth, for Dr.
Shuttleworth, "Warden of New College, was appointed.
^ By Schleiermacher. The appointment in question was the bishopric
of St. David's.
= Dr. Allen was Bishop of Ely.

PATRONAGE 507
errors, considering the time and circumstances in which
they were committed, were not of such magnitude as to
bar the promotion of a man of so much learning and
ability. This also is my opinion, upon which I have
acted ; and I have made this short explanation in return
for the candour and fairness of your Grace's letter, and
also because that, while I feel myself bound to recom
mend for promotion clergymen whose general views
upon political matters coincide with my own, I am most
anxious not to advance any man whose doctrines are
not in unison with those of the Established Church, or
even whose promotion would be disagreeable to the
great body of the clergy.
Lord Mel- I RETURN you Dr. Amold's letters. With respect
thTBishop to the immediate object of it, the Act of last
wM^i""^' session has annexed this canonry of Christ-
Au^^stai, church, which has just fallen vacant, to the
1840. Margaret Erofessorship of Divinity^
I have, as you know, a high opinion of Dr. Arnold,
which has been raised still higher by the affair of the
wardenship of Manchester,^ but Dr. Arnold has pub
lished some indiscreet opinions — I call them indiscreet
because they have, as it appears to me, without any
adequate reason or object, impaired his own utility^ —
and these opinions would, I own, render me unwilling
to name him for a professorship of divinity, or any
science connected with divinity, in the University of
Oxford.^
The same The iiicumbeiit of Woodbiddgc is anxious to
^°^^ exchang-e benefices with the incumbent of
' Declined by Arnold.
^ The allusion is to Arnold's pamphlet on Church Beform, published
in 1833 and his Essay on the Interpretation of Scripture, with the
appendix on ' The Priesthood.'

508 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
wiildtor ^ethwold (?), both in your diocese. Do
Au^ut't 10 y°^ think this ought to be done ; and would
1811. the arrangement have your approbation and
sanction ?
I do not much like myself this chopping and chang
ing of livings. A clergj'inan should take his parish as
a husband does his wife— for better, for worse, and not
be seeking separation on any small disgust, or for any
petty reason, such as climate, bad neighbourhood, quar
relling with parishioners. The liberty of divorce would,
in both cases, lead to a dissolution of the connection for
any and every trifling reason.
Pensions on the Civil List were carefully considered before
they were given. Readers of Lord John Russell's ' Life of
Moore ' will remember an admirable letter about a pension to the
poet's sons, in which is discussed the danger of starting young
men in life with a small annuity. Lord Melbourne's quarrel
with Faraday, whom he mistook, or pretended to mistake, for
an astronomer, and roundly abused for applying for a pension,
was probably due to some temporary cause of annoyance totally
unconnected with the subject at issue. Anyhow, the dispute was
settled in a manner creditable to both sides.'
Mr. Cary ^ has just published a sonnet addressed to
Durham, in -\AEicli he condemns me for having aban
doned and deserted Durham. . . . Now would not to
give him a pension at this moment be straining even
the Christian maxim of ' return good for evil ' ? As I
interpret that text it means that, if those who have in
jured you come in your way, you should do them every
^ Bence Jones's Life of Faraday, ii. 56-63. Eord Melbourne was
reported to have said that he looked upon the whole system of giving
pensions to literary and scientific persons as a piece of humbug ; and he
owned that he had expressed himself 'certainly in an imperfect, and, per
haps, in too blunt and inconsiderate a manner.' He used to express
similar opinions on the encouragement of art to L^aydon.
'"' The translator of Dante.

PATRONAGE 509
-benefit you can ; but it does not appear to mean that
you should select them for favour in preference to
those who have served you.^
Mr. Cary was, as will be seen below, forgiven ; and tin )ugli
Leigh Hunt's libel on the Prince Regent stood in the way of his
pension so long as Lord Melbourne lived, he twice received a
grant of 200L from the Royal Bounty Fund.
LeWi Owing to the non-receipt of the letter which
Lord*Mei Lord Holhiiid was good enough to write to my
bourne. frieiid Mr. Serjeant Talfourd (who was from
August 4, ... .
1839. home on circuit), it was not until Wednesday
last that I became acc^uainted with the great kindness
again done me by 3'our lordship.
I wish it were in my power, without entering into
painful details, to give your lordship an idea of the
extreme good done to a struggling and economical house
hold by the second disbursement from the royal fund.
Suffice it to say, it has a second time cleared away the
worst part of obstacles which it is difficult for a family
to remain quite free from whose efforts are led by such
a pen as mine — often in a sick hand ; though, since I had
to make my last acknowledgments, its burdens have been
lightened by the employment of some of us in a fresh
quarter, and my own health has been bettered by an
exceUent physician, and by what has thus bettered us
aU. This is the best way I can thank your lordship, by
showing you the good you have done ; but I have been
much perplexed (hving, as I do, at so great, and I fear
so ignorant, a distance from affairs of Court) to know
whether it would become me to mingle with my thanks
to your lordship any expression, however humble, of
my duty to the mistress of the royal fund. If not, you
1 To Lord John Russell, January 5, 1839.

610 LORD MELBOURMES PAPERS
will smile and pardon me this mention of it ; if other
wise, may I beg, in the most passing and least pre
sumptuous way I can think of (with the exception of it
thus being through your lordship's medium), to lay that
duty at her Majesty's feet, as one of the most cordial
and affectionate of her subjects, and publicly known to
be such in the quarters in which his pen is directed ?

Lord Mel- There is 70(1^. Si year of pension to dispose of.
LOTdjotai ¦"- q.iiil6 agree with you that they have been too
July 13 ™uch given to the literary and scientific ; and
^^^^- thus a notion has been generated, as I knew it
would be, that they belong entirely to that class. You
have sent two cases. Captain Pringle and Mrs. Jeremie.-'
The former appears to me to be hardly a case for pen
sion — his services are not sufficient, and he is quite
CTipable of work. With respect to the latter, Mrs.
Jeremie, I am afraid you have had many Governors of
Sierra Leone die prematurely, leaving distressed widows.
Compassion, and feeling, and even a sense of justice, is
for making provision in all such cases, but experience
soon discovers that for this no wealth is sufficient.
Lord Mel- There is a sum — 700Z. — to be disposed of in
Lor™johQ pensions. How much would you like for Mrs.
EusseU. Jeremie — is she not Lady Jeremie ? — and what
Windsor ¦'
Castle, ig to be done with the rest ? You wrote to me
i8«- ' some time ago about Wordsworth. What he
wishes for himself, and what his friends wish for him,
is to give up his place in the coUection of the revenue
to his son, and to have a pension of 300Z. for himself.
Baring, I beheve, had some objection to this, but I have
1 Sh: John Jeremie died at Sierra Leone in April. Sydney Smith's
joke was that ' Sierra Leone had two Governors, one just arrived in the
colony, the other just arrived in England.'

PATRONAGE 511
desired hiin to be asked again about it. You wrote to
me some time ago about Cary, the translator of Dante.
I have forgiven him his sonnet now, aud should liaAC
no objection to give him something. The hst of appli
cations which I have comprises Mrs. James, widow of
the writer of the Naval Llistory ; Leigh Hunt, distin
guished writer of seditious and treasonable libels;
Colonel Napier, historian of the war in Spain, conceited
and dogmatic Eadical, and grandson of a duke ; Mr.
Cary, translator of Dante, madman ; Sheridan Knowles,
man of great genius, but not old nor poor enough for a
pension. Say what you think ought to be done. If
you gave Mrs. Jeremie 2001. there wiU remain five, if
100/. six. Napier has been speaking and acting with
great violence at the Bath election. He knocked a man
down, and, I beheve, abused the Government broadly ;
but I am not so sure of the last.
I thought y^our address extremely weU done. I
"wrote to Duncannon the few observations that occurred
to me upon it, and left it to his discretion whether to
insert it or to leave it until he heard from you again.
The general report is that they will ojipose the re-elec
tion of the Speaker. I have no fear of our party being-
kept together in some shape or another. A party has
never yet been entirely broken up by defeat, even more
complete than that which we have witnessed. At least,
I know of no instance. How much difference and
breaking off may take place depends upon the patience
and moderation of our people, as y^ou say, and particu
larly of O'ConneU, with respect to whose possible course
I cannot pretend to form a conjecture. Adieu.

51:^ LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CHAPTEE XV
LAST YEARS
1811-1848
Lord Melbourne went into Opposition very philosophicallv.
Though Peel's cautious policy gave little occasion for an attack,
he was regular in his attendance, and spoke frequently during
the two follov-fing sessions.
Lord Mel- ^ WILL rctum y^ou Duncannon's letter to-mor-
Lord John ^ow ; I wish to havo a copy of it made. Yours
srath^'' rather puzzles me. I understand EUice says
o'ctoberT ^¦'¦^^^ ^^® caiiiiot SCO his Way in public affairs,
^^*^- and if he cannot see it nobody^ else can. I own
I do not, and this makes me very cautious in either
taking or recommending a step to be taken.
If the only one proposed relates to the sending of
circulars, this may be safely left to the time at which
circulars are to be sent, and this I should advise. It
seems to me that we cannot commence another session
without fuUy explaining to O'ConneU, to the Eadicals,
and to the country the grounds upon which we mean
to act, and the objects which we have, as well as those
which we have not, in view. But how and when this
is to be done it is rather difficult to decide. I will
write again. I have no news but what is in the news
papers. E.S. — It amuses me in John, Duke of Bedford's,

LAST YEARS 51.3
Journal' how calmly and as a matter of course he tells
of being examined by the mob, pelted with brickliats,
baited with buUdogs, &c., &c.
"^^tC^^ I THINK Charles EUiot by no means so clearly
same wroug in this business as in the former.^ He
South o
October 13 ^-'¦'"'^'^y* coiitri-^'es SO as to have to stop the force
i8*i' just at the moment of action. This is most un
lucky. It is just as if you were to order a pack of
fox-hounds to be whipped off just as they were running
into their fox. Only conceive the rage of huntsman,
whipper-in, and dogs. But he has got a large sum of
money, and got it down ; he has not given up much, as
he- did before when he aj?reed to go back from Canton ;
and he has not prejudiced the subsequent operations
or affected the ultimate decision.
A dinner in London will not only^ be the proper time
for a declaration, but, if it takes place, it will be an
occasion upon which y^ou may" hardly be able to avoid
making one. I want to go into Derbyshire, but I am
afraid of some address or something of that sort. Mel
bourne itself is a large manufacturing and political
viUage ; it is twenty-five miles from Leicester, seventeen
from Nottingham, eight from Derby — rather an inflam
mable neighbourhood. Eerhaps, however, they may
leave me quite alone, and if they do not, I must manage
as weU as I can.^
' Lord John Russell had recently published the first volume of the
Correspondence of John, fourth Duke of Bedford.
' A preliminary treaty, disavowed by the Chinese authorities and dis
approved at home. Elliot stopped the advance of the troops on Canton,
and admitted the city to a ransom of 1,250,0002. He was soon afterwards
recalled (Appendix to vol. i. of Sir H. Taylor's Autobiography).
' He received addresses from Melbourne and Derby, and in reply gave
a review of his administration. L L

514 LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
I HAVE this morning received your letter, and 1
The same i p i ¦ i -i
to the ought, as you say, beiore this to fiave answered
South your former one of the 16th of last month.
August 6, I do not understand that I have at all pledged
myself to the present corn laws. All that I
said upon Brougham's motion was, that I thought it non
sense to go into a Earliamentary enquiry now into the
amount and causes of distress, or to stir at present a
change of the laws which had been so recently settled.
I have never believed in the amount or extent of
distress, because I saw clearly that it was made use cf
as an instrument to effect a particular object, and the
particular statements that were made, if examined, never
did bear out or support the general propositions.
We shall now, as y^ou say, have an opportunity of
fully considering this subject, and that with increased
experience. At the same time, I very much dislike that
a great question of policy should be much affected by
an event so casual, so uncertain, so much the creature
of chance and accident as the getting in or the yield of
a harvest. My esoteric doctrine (but to be dissembled
to the multitude upon questions of this character) is
that, if you entertain any doubt, it is safest to take
the unpopular side in the first instance. The transition
from the unpopular is easy and prosperous travelhng.
'But from the popular to the unpopular the ascent is so
steep and rugged that it is impossible to master it.
I intended to have said something about the sliding
scale, &c., onEadnor's motion, but the debate languished
and it did not seem a good opportunity. Surely we
should be suflaciently clear and distinct upon that sub
ject, and we should condemn it to more advantage after
we had seen the working of the new Act, which has
certainly hitherto operated differently from the old.

LAST YEARS bU
I am more and more unwiUing to take upon myself
the^ responsibility of the shock of the sudden change
which I apprehend from a completely free importation.
We know so httle beforehand upon the subject.
Only consider the experience of this year. All the be
ginning of it was passed in declaring that there was no
corn left in the country, that there would be famine
before the harvest, and that nothing could avert it but
immediately opening the ports. Now what is said ?^
that there is much more corn in the country than was
thought for, and the prices faU every market. It rains
to-day, and perhaps with the rain aU the old lang-uage
wiU revive. I do not much care what the farmers think or
say, not even those wonderfuUy inteUigent Scotch ones.
They wiU pass y^our bribery Bill as it has come up
from the House of Commons. Nobody in the House of
Lords cares the least about it.
Eray remember me most kindly to Minto and Lady
Minto, and aU of them. I love them much though they
may not think it. Just hint that Elumridge seems to
me to be rather an ass.^ What business had he to
second that old fool Burdett's motion about Warner ?
I do not see the object of asking Aberdeen about Ash-
burton. Adieu.
Evert one who is acquainted with or has con-
The same . -^
to the Sidered the subject seems to me to have come
same. , ,
Brocket to your opiuion, that the arrangement made by
October 7, Lord Asliburtou is a liad one,^ and that we ought
to have had, and might have had, better terms.
' Captain Plumridge seconded a motion for a Select Committee to en
quire into the negotiations between the Government and Captain -V^'arner,
the inventor of a submarine explosive. In the course of the debate,
Burdett accused Lord Melboume of having lost the Admiralty Report on
the subject.
^ Eor the settlement of the questions at issue with the United States.
L L 2

510 LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
I have always myself leaned to the opinion that it was
not a difficult matter to blow up war between the two
countries, and that the internal embarrassments, which
Ealmerston relies upon as utterly disabling her from hos
tilities, were in fact, or might be turned into, stimulants to
them, and therefore I have been much inclined to think
any settlement better than none. I, therefore, am rather
of your opinion with respect to the manner in which the
matter shall be dealt with in Earhament. But this will
to a certain degree depend upon circumstances — such as
the feeling of the country, the feeling of the party, and
the general effect likely to be produced by the language
held ; and therefore I should think that the safest course
would be to state the objections to the treaty strongly,
as indeed has already been done, and to leave the actual
measures to be taken to be decided upon when Earha
ment is about to meet. Palmerston is already aware
of my opinion upon this subject, and I should expect
that he concurs in it, but I wiU write to him again.^
The Duke of Bedford, whom I met yesterday with the
Duchess at Welwyn, showed me your letters to him,
which contain very much my views.
If we had a majority in the House of Commons it
would do to vote them out upon as well as any other
question, just as the Coalition in 1782 voted out Lord
Shelburne for a treaty which I take to have been as
good a one as we could have made in the circumstance ;
but as we have not a majority it may be aUowable to
think a Uttle what is best for the country and the
world. You slipped by from the north of the island to the
¦ Lord Palmerston did not concur, and in the following session
attacked the so-caUed ' Ashbui-ton surrender ' with great vigour, but with
out much result.

LAST YE.VRS 617
south unexpectedly, silently, and without giving notice,
or I should have pressed you and Lady John' to have
stopped here for a day or two. I hope we shaU see you
when y^ou come to town, if }'ou are in a movable state.
Eemember me to Lady John.
On October 23 he had an attack of paralysis. It -\\'as very
slight, and he speedily rallied ; but he was never the same man
afterwards, and seldom ventured to speak in the House of Lords.
His faculties, however, remained perfectly unimpaired, and his
opinions on public affairs were eagerly sought for by his old
colleagues. Lord Mel- "^^ 7^"^ liavc thoroughly made up y^oiir mind
LOTd^jokQ ^^'i ^^^ prepared to write, I wish you would
Brocket luform me what language you mean to hold
Fmuar 5 respecting corn when Earhament meets. Of
1813. course y^ou have dismissed from 3'our mind the
notion that the Government will move upon that subject.
Feel would be an imbecile if he were to break up his
party and probably his administration in that manner.
He "wiU remain quietly in his present position.-' If I
were he I should not mind the Anti-Corn League and
their abettors. There is but one party in the country
that can create a real feeling and agitation, and that is
the Government. AVlien it takes up a question it be
comes serious, tiU then it is little or nothing.
Clarendon, who has been here, seems to think that it
would be un-wise to stir this question much at first, and
that it is impossUile at present to argue that there has
been sufficient experience of the present law to eiialile
anyone to pronounce decisively upon its merits or de
merits. ' Not a good prophecy, as the sessions of 1848 to 1846 were to show.
Lord jNIelbourne was highly indignant with Sir Robert Peel's conversion
to Free Trade, and broke out at -Windsor with ' Ma'am, it's a damned
dishonest act ' {Greville, part ii. vol. ii. p. 351).

618 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Ellenborough's strange proceedings in India form the
subject of the following letters : —
LordJohn ^ ^^ ^^^ think EUcnborough has any claims
^'^TiiV for indulg-ence ; his attack on Auckland is most
Lord Mel- o '
bourne. offcnslve aiid unjust. His Somnauth proclama-
February J ^
6, 1843. ^JQjj^ 1 ^g jjQi a rnere toleration of Hindoo super
stition, but an exaltation of it. However we may pay
respect to the Eoman Catholic religion, one is not bound
to say that liquefying the blood of St. Januarius is a
subject of adoration. They were not pressed about the
order to retreat because they promised to give aU the
papers. Feel evidently means to side with the strongest
about corn. Eobarts tells me the opinion in the City is
that the Corn Laws are doomed. Still, if the country is
quiet, and the League lose their popularity, he wiU stick
by his law.
G. W. Wood says aU the moderate men in Lanca
shire have now joined the League. He says also, that
in all their discussions Feel's Bill of last year has not
been mentioned. Nobody considers it as any^ change
worth speaking of.
The discovery of Franklin's map is a curious one.^
The Duke of Sussex dines here to-day. The Queen is
much affected by Drummond's death,^ and Lady Feel is
in a dreadful state of nerves.
Lord Mel- I ENTIRELY agree with you in your estimate as
Lord John to the relative imprudence and culpability of
^ The famous proclamation directing the removal of the gates of
Somnauth to Agra.
^ It was discovered in the Foreign Ofiice while search was being made
for original documents on the Boundary question,
* Sir Eobert Peel's private secretary, who was shot by a madman.

LAST YEARS 610
Brocket EUeiiborougli's proclamation, and the one of
HaU, Feb- Octobsr 1 has hardly yet been sufficiently ana-
ruiry 13, •' •' •'
1843. lysed and excogitated. It gives a false account
of the grounds upon which the expedition across the
Indus was undertaken. Nor is it true that Shah
Soojah's throne was only held among insurrections, nor
that his death was preceded by anarchy. It also says
that Afghanistan will be evacuated quite coolly and
easily, and as if such a step were a matter of perfect
indifference. A single step in retreat in India is a
serious matter, and draws on far greater consequences
than the mere relinquishment of the territory from which
you withdraw the troops. Abandoning Afghanistan is
very possibly also abandoning Bengal, and recrossing
the Indus may be at the same time recrossing the
Hoogly and the Ganges. Amongst Oriental nations
impression is strong, and leads to great results.
I think a motion for enquiry into the effect of the
Corn Laws is the best that can be made ; but perhaps
you had better wait and see what Eice does in the
House of Lords. He writes to me very confidently of
making a strong case, and if he does make such a case
as is hkely to make an impression upon the public — for
a case may be very strong and have nothing popular
about it — you wiU be better able to judge whether or
not to foUow it up in the House of Commons.
You wiU have perceived that since the first day
downeto of tlic sessioii WO havc had little but law to
bourne.^" amusc US in the House of Lords and an occa-
FebraSy sloual spccch from Brougham on the French
14 [1843]. ^^g|j3^^gs_ j£e told me the first day that 1 saw
him that his having assisted at the opening of the
French Chambers would be of great use, as it would

520 LORD MELBOUENE'S PAPERS
enable him to ' take a part ' in their discussions ; and
he has been busydng himself accordingly. He calls at
the French Embassy in the morning to in-yite their
attendance. I have been able to give as yet but a general glance
at the Indian papers, which were presented last night,
but have only been circulated this morning. As far as
I can make them out as yet they show a great deal of
activity and energy in EUenborough from the time the
advance and reoccupatioii of Afghanistan was resolved
upon, but leave him open to animadversion on one or
two points — the first proclamation, which is highly cen
surable, but forms no part of the military arrange
ments ; ^ the order which distinctly^ appears to [com
mand] Nott to retire at once, and which must have
lieen disobeyed by Nott, though no remonstrance or
explanation on his part appears, being confined perhaps
to private communications ; ^ and the foolish directions
about the gates.
I trust the last week's severe weather does not affect
or retard your progress.
Lord Mel- I HAVE bccn again looking over your letter,
Lor™John which I reccived yesterday. I certainly see
Brocket ^C) rcasou for abandoning in principle a fixed
January duty iipou tlic importation of corn, but I do
18, 1844. j^Qj- ggg ^-^^^ -ypg have much to say that is either
strong or new against the recent law and the sliding
scale as it is now arranged. It has not brought in too
much corn during the past year, nor has it brought it
in ill inconvenient times and in inconvenient quantities,
which was the first charge against the, system. I think
¦" The orders for retreat.
^ That was so. General Nott acted on his own responeibility.

LAST YEARS 621
that I gather, from a more attentive inspection of your
words, the revisions which y^ou would propose for the
better government of Ireland. You say that it is neces
sary to give the Catholics what was promised at the
Union and in 1829 — i.e. equahty of right, equaUty of
preferment, and the fuU benefit of the government at
Dublin. This can only be obtained better by placing
ill preferments those who will act upon the principles
upon which we acted from 183-3 to 1841. You add
that it is requisite to lay a foundation for conciliating
the Catholic clergy^ to the State. On this point — and
of course its objects, payments, and provision — I have
seen a letter from EUice, in which he say^s, any attempt
made by an}- body to provide a public provision for the
Eoman Catholic clergy wiU at once issue in a failure as
signal and decisive, and much of the same character, as
the failure of the Education scheme last year. I fear
this wiU be found right. This appears to me to afford
a strong reason for thinking a little before we encumber
ourselves unreservedly with this matter. If you persist
in this matter, I strongly advise you to communicate
previously, through Duncannon, with O'Connell, and
attempt to learn from him whether there are any mea
sures, and what they are, which will satisfy the Eepeal
party and obtain their support. Adieu.
Much has been written about the loneliness of Lord Mel
bourne's last years. As a matter of fact those statements have
little or no foundation. It is true that Lord Melbourne, as old
age and illness crept upon him, may have fancied himself
nep-lected and may from time to time have let fall expressions
tinged with weariness of the world. But what his friends and
relations could do for him they did zealously. Lady f^almerston
and fjady Holland, until her death in 1815, were unceasing in
their attentions to him, and Lord and Lady Beauvale made a point
of si)eiidiiiu- the winter months at f^rockefc. It is tn be liojied

623 LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS
that in their company he repented him of his saying of former
years, 'I would rather have a man about me when I am ill; I
think it requires strong health to put up with a woman.' '
Among his papers also are to be found many and many a letter
from his old colleagues and private friends, while Mr. Thomas
Young sent him long budgets dealing with every topic under
the sun. The following letters from Mrs. Norton and Mr. Ellice
appear to be of sufficient interest to be given here : —
Fray do write. I am ill in bed myself, and if
Hon. Mrs. . .,
Norton to you dou t writc I sliall thmk you are ill in bed
Lord ¦' ^ ^.^ . . -^ ^ ^ •'
Melbourne, too. 1 did imagine 1 had coaxed you into
ards-on- scribbliug by asking you that information for
December my pocm. You always say you are glad to
teach me things and supply me with scraps of
knowledge. How shall I get on if I am so neglected
by my tutor ?
The boy's tutor, whose name is Mr. Murray, and
who is curate here, is the first gentleman of Scotch
extraction I ever met who knew nothing whatever
about his clan or his family. In general they will ferret
you out their roots (to say nothing of their branches)
with the sagacity of truffle dogs ; but here's a fellow
who asks what Dunmore's title is, and who is the elder
branch of the Murray clan ? There is a passage in my
poem about the Church disturbances in Scotland against
those who want to elect their own ministers." Breadal
bane wanted me to leave it out, but I have been obsti-
^ Leslie's Autobiography (i. p. 1C9). It was Leslie whom Lord
Melbourne asked how it was that Raphael was employed by the Pope to
paint the walls of the Vatican. The answer was, ' Because of his great
excellence.' ' But was not his uncle, Bramante, architect to the Pope ? '
'I believe Bramante was his uncle.' 'Then it was a job, you may be
sure.' ^ Child of the Islands, a poem on the birth of the Prince of "Wales,
published in 1845, which would apparently place the date of these letters
at the previous winter. The passage begins, ' The taught should choose
their teacher ; bs it so ! '

LAST YEARS 623
nate. I told him what you had said about the difference
between being in and out of office. He laughed very
much, and said he should send y^ou a whole deer to
make up. How can you turn such a deaf ear and such a
to the turned-up nose to the claims of old Jack Morris ?
Leonards- ' Why doii't you liclp the man that helped y^our
brother at Westminster, in the good old days
when you wasn't weak and sick and he wasn't faint and
si:arvincf ? Do vou think the God who made Jack Morris
and you does not judge it as selfishness ? Something
also, perhaps, of ingratitude. For, no doubt, when he
had his riches, and his twenty-stall stable, and his West
minster votes, very civil words you all said to him. Oh !
rouse your sluggish old heart to write to some one for
him ; and don't fly^ in the face of Heaven, who built up
your own face into the picture of honesty and gene
rosity, thereby (alas !) creating much mistaken trust
and vain expectation in the hearts of all those whose
ill-judging eyes have gazed on your countenance !
Why don't you write ? Who have you got at
Brocket ? Does Emily hang her long gowns up, like
banners of victory, in the cupboards ? Does Lady Hol
land cut herself in four to help and serve you ? Are
Fanny Jocelyn's soft purple eyes at your table under
the lamps ? or does the ' Minny ' who rivals our own
' Georgy ' rouse you to any love and admiration of your
own relations ? ^
Adieu. I am extremely busy, yet I write to y^ou.
You are not busy, yet you do not write to me. I
abjure the world, and will sell aU I have and give to
the poor.
1 Lady Palmerston's two daughters were married to Lord Shaftesbury
and Lord Jocelyn. Georgy is the Duchess of Somerset.

524 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
To-morrow is Erin's ' birthday, and we have ordered
roast pig for dinner.
The same ^ ^^^ b^^^ ^'"^^^ interest of your gates made you
to the ^rrite directly, but you disturbed yourself un-
Thursday, neccssarily. I have no enthusiasms which
January •,
22- make me forget what y-ou say to me, and you
told me at the time aU that you have taken the trouble
to write per post. If you had read as carefully as I
listen you would have seen that in my letter I mention
having promised designs, and that I merely repeat the
observations of others when I talk of Baldock and his
triumphal entries.
It has since struck me that as the place is in fact
Mrs. Lamb's (and probably, also, the projected im
provement) her leisure would be well employed, and
her taste better satisfied by choosing them herself.
Mrs. S  does not care about politics for the best of
all reasons, which is, that she cannot by any effort be
brought to comprehend them, even in the shadow way
we women do. She takes them, as Helen ^ does (only
that Helen could understand them), and NeU's way^ I will
recount. Helen was iU in bed ; I thought  's epistle
might amuse her, and took it accordingly. She put
out one hand in a languid, deprecating manner, and
said, ' Don't look so eager, Caroline, and above aU
things don't read it to me if there are any politics in it,
for I know I shall be bored and tired to death.'
As to S  , you are -wrong if you think him stupid.
He may be wrong-headed, but he is a fine-spirited
creature, full of information, though habitually silent ;
and those who are against you may be with you. Mrs.
' Her second son, afterwards Lord Grantley.
" Lady Dufferin.

LAST YEARS ryjr,
S  has a number of set phrases of the 'jobbing ' of
the Whigs, and the ' dishonesty' of the Whigs, &c., &c.,
but neither for the past nor for the present has she a
definite idea. She told Lady H  before Lord II 
that Mr. C  said he could have married her on his
own terms ; and on S  interposing, she said, ' You
know you told me so yourself.' This has made a family
quarrel, and she is not yet convinced it was a foolish
thing to do.
Georgy has sent for me to sit with her, as she is ill
and low — so farewell.
I HAVE sent the Inverness newspaper, published
Ellice to durino- the sitting of the General Assembly of
Lord Mel- , -r^ ,^, i i -,
bourne. tlic Ircc Cliurcfi ficrc, and containing a report
August 27, of the speeches and proceedings ; not that I
expect you to wade through the whole of
them, trash as well as energy and eloquence, but that
you may see the progress of the movement, and judge
of its influence on the social conditions and future for
tunes of this country. . . . Their great object is to
secure the permanence of their institution by^ raising
fands, not only for building churches, but schools and
houses for their minister and schoolmaster. . . .No
body can mistake the serious or important character of
the movement, or the ability, energy, and devotion with
which the leaders are conducting it. Guthrie, Dr.
Candhsh,^ and their celebrated preachers go from
meeting to meeting to preach in aU the northern
parishes, and to hold meetings of their local presby
teries in furtherance of the objects of the Assembly.
1 Quthrie was a celebrated preacher at St. John's Free Church, Edin
burgh. Dr. Candhsh became the ruhng spirit of the Free Church after
the death of Chalmers.

523 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
They have enlisted the whole northern population, with
few exceptions, in their ranks. . . . They will form the
front rank in the battle that must soon be fought
between voluntaryism and establishments. In which
rank will the Irish Catholics ultimately be placed ? If
the majority of the people of Ireland and of Scotland
are to be thrown with the English Dissenters into the
ranks of voluntaryism, the Church of England in both
countries, with its Euseyites- and others, will have a
hard fight to maintain itself. I doubt whether it can
number among its leaders more talent, energy, or zeal
than distinguish those of the Free Church here. It
will receive little assistance or support from what the
Free Kirk people call the ' residuaries ' of the Scotch
establishment, who seem to be asleep while this move
ment is awakening every other soul in the country-.
I HEAR that you are quoted as being disposed to
Lord John _e n n . ¦ • ^ ^ tt
Eussell to vote for a fixed duty in committee m the House
bourne. of Lords. I havc agreed with Lansdowne to
May 22, liavc & meeting at Lansdowne House to-
[1846]. f T • T 1
morrow, ot peers only, to consider the present
condition of affairs.^ I wish to state to them that I
could not accept a fixed duty in lieu of the present
Bill. I hope you will not be a party to throwing out
the Bill. It must lead to that violent agitation on this
subject which y^ou have always apprehended. The
League might not be able to do much of themselves,
but with Eeel and the Whig members of the House of
Commons to lead them their efforts will be powerful,
and stir up society to the bottom.
^ The meeting was summoned iu order to prevent a coalition between
the Protectionists and the "Whigs who were for a fixed duty. According
to Greville, Lord Melbourne made a bitter speech against Peel, but declared
himself prepared to go along with his friends.

LAST YEARS 627
Those who throw out the present Bill will cause
this agitation, and cui bono ?
Lord Mel- ^ HAVE received your letter, and when I receive
Lor™John ^ sumuioiis froiu Laiisdowiie for to-morrow I
South'^' ^'"^ tsike care to attend. I think that upon
Mrt'2 ^^^ whole I agree with y^ou. The report of
1846. n^y views has probably arisen from my having
said, that if a resolution in favour of a fixed duty
was moved in the House of Lords I should feel a diffi
culty in voting against it, as I had myself moved a
similar resolution in 1842. This is as much as I have
said. Although conscious of his gradual decline Lord Melbourne
clung to the idea that he would be Minister once more. He
professed himself ready to take office in case the Government
was overthrown in 1844,' and when the Liberals returned to
power in 1846 he felt mortified at not having a place offered
him in the new Cabinet.
Lord John then wrote to him a kind letter: —
Lord John ^ SUBMITTED to tlic Quccn y^cstcrday the list of
Lord Me'r ^ ^^®^" Ministry. I have not proposed to you
bourne. ^q fomi a part of it, because I do not think
July 3, -¦- .
1846. yrour health is equal to the fatigues which any
office must entaU. For although there are offices with
httle business in themselves, the Earliamentary work
has increased so greatly that a Lord Erivy Seal, for
instance, must take charge of committees, and be con
stantly engaged in assisting the leader of the Blouse of
Lords. I propose to put WiUiam Cowper ^ into his old place
in the Treasury. ' Greville, part ii. vol. ii. p. 233.
2 The late Lord Mount Temple.

528 LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS
Lord Mel- ^^u havc judgcd very rightly and kindly in
Lor™John flaking me no offer. I am subject to such
Soutif^' frequent accesses of illness as render me in-
street, capable of any exertion.
^^''®- I am glad of what you intend about WiUiam
Cowper. I do not think that he would mind being left
out himself, but it would have been very unpalatable to
his mother.
Here Lord Melbourne's correspondence comes practically to
an end. One or two letters there are of a later date, but they
are almost illegible and, so far as their purport can be gathered,
unimportant.' He was well enough to vote on the Jewish
Disabilities Bill on May 25, 1848, but tha,t was his last appear
ance in public, and on November 24 of the same year he died.
^ It is curious that he should have written to a colleague so far back
as September 1835, 'I beheve there is no surer sign of weakness or
decliue than bad handwriting.' Lord Melbourne's handwriting was never
good, but it was not much worse in 1845 than it was in 1835. After
1845 it became very difficult.

.1

INDEX

ABB
Aberceomby, Mr. (afterwards
Lord Dunfermhne), 245, 255,
257, 369 ; letters, 291, 410
Adair, Sir Robert, 10, 22
iEsohylus, 88
Afghanistan, 453, 519
Albert, Prince, 406, 412, 413,
422
Allen, John : letter, 409
Althorp, Lord. See Spencer,
Earl
America, North. See United
States and Canada
America, South, 97
Andover, Lord, 17
Andrews, Eev. Dr., 46
Anglesey, Lord, 105, 108, 167,
182 ; letters, 169, 177
Anson, G. B. : letter, 422
Arnold, Dr., 500 sqq., 507
Ashburton, Lord, 615
Attwood, Thomas, 133, 405
Auckland, Lord, 453
Austria, 67, 147, 357 sqq., 361
Bainbeidge, Edward T., 244
Baird, Sir David, 65
Bankes, Mr., 42, 46
Baring, Six Francis, 381 ; letters,
402 sqq.
Barnes, "Thomas, 142
Bathurst, Bragge, 38, 44. 47
Bedford, 5th Duke of, 21, 22
Bedford, 6th Duke of, 43
Bedford, 7th Duke of, 479
Birmingham, 117, 133, 136, 154
Blackburne, Francis, 167, 177
Blomfield, Bishop, 143
Boar, Herman, 23
Bonaparte, 10, 14, 18, 45, 49 sqq.,
07

CLA
Boringdon, Lord, 19
Brand, Mr., 17, 25, 36
Breadalbane, Earl of, 435, 522
Brocket Hall, 2, 16
Brougham, Lord, 55, 142, 144,
143, 190, 202, 212, 225, 220,
230, 237, 241, 243, 250, 257,
268, 381, 387, 401, 519
Brunei, Mr., 16, 24
Brunnow, Baron, 476
BuUer, Charles, 429, 431
Bulwer, Sir Edward Lytton, 78,
370
Burdett, Sir Francis, 515
Burrard, Sir Harry, 57
Butler, Dr. Samuel, 506
Buxton, Sir T. F., 376
Byng, Sir J., 107, 112
Byron, Lord, 3, 77

Camelfoed, Lord, 21 note, 23,
25
Campbell, Sir John, afterwards
Lord, 283, 304, 412, 420
Canada, 334, 349, 415, 421 sqq.
Canning, George, 4, 19, 37, 45,
47, 48, 57, 98, 103, 361, 479
Carhsle, 5th Earl of, 20
Carnarvon, Earl of, 20
Carter, Major, 178
Cary, Henry F., 508, 511
Chalmers, Dr., 288
Castlereagh, Lord, 98
Chichester (bishopric of), 4G4,
468, 505
China, 456 sqq., 493
Cintra, 57, 63, 66
Clarendon, 4th Earl of, 420, 517 ;
letter, 469
Clarke, Mrs., 65
M M

530

LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

CLA
Clarkson, Thomas, 379
Cleghorn, Dr., 21
Cloncurry, Lord, 177
Cobbett, "WiUiam, 127, 147, 149
Coke, Charlotte, 2
Coke, Sir Edward, 96
Coke, Sir John, 1
Colborne, Sir John, 434
Combe, Alderman, 233
ConoUy, Colonel, 319
Copenhagen, 44, 47
Cottenham, Lord, 443, 468
Cowper, "WiUiam, 527, 528
Cracow, 340, 348, 454
Curran, John Philpot, 279

Denison, John Evelyn, 155 note,
331
Denman, Sir T., 177
Devonshire, Georgiana, Duchess
of, 9
Doherty, John, 167, 168
Donoughmore, Earl of, 319, 321
Douglas, Inspector, 193
Downshne, Lord, 318, 321
Doyle, Dr., 195
Dudley, Earl of, 104 note, 379
Dufferin, Lady, 524
Duigenan, Dr., 36
Duncannon, Lord, 171, 205,225,
285, 443 ; letters, 228, 380
Duncombe, T. S., 395
Dundas, Henry (afterwards Vis
count Melville), 0, 8, 57
Dundas, ^W., 46
Durham, Lord, 145, 212, 215,
230, 237, 241, 247, 257, 429
sqq.

Ebrington, Lord, 389, 390
Egremont, Lord, 19, 27
EUenborough, Lord, 518 sqq.
EUice, Edward, 238, 243, 381,
395, 443, 479, 512, 521 ; letters,
438, 472, 525
EUiot, Captain Charles, 457, 518

Faeaday, Michael, 503
Ferdinand VII., 301
Ferguson, Robert, 244

HIL

Fox, Charles James, 13, 15, 24,
32,84
France, 10, 14, 49 sqq., 07, 352
sqq., 460 sqq.
Frere, John Hookham, 19, 75

Geoege III., 34, 37, 40, 48, 95
George lY., 103
GUes, Mr., 42
Glasgow, i, 8
Glenelg, Lord, 334, 349, 380, 382,
383, 434, 441
Goddard, Dr., 79
Goderich, Lord, 106, 115
Godwin, "WUUam, 8, 78
Gosford, Earl of, 349
Gouvion Saint-Cyr, Marshal, 8
Graham, Sir James : letter, 125
Grant, Charles, afterwards Lord
Glenelg, 106. See Glenelg
Grant, Sh- W., 32, 40
GranvUle, Earl, 381
Grattan, Henry, 25, 3G
Gregory, WiUiam, 106, 169
GrenvUle, Lord, 35, 42
GrevUle, Charles, 365, 442
Grey, Sir Charles, 334
Grey, 2nd Earl, 140, 143 sqq.,
190, 218, 243, 250, 252, 254 ;
letters, 136, 153,154,239,246,
255. 397, 398
Grey, Sir George, 485
Guizot, M., 462, 469, 485

Haddington, Lord, 145
Halford, Mr., 478
HaU, Eev. Robert, 28
Hampden, Eev. Dr., 496 sqq.
Hampshire, 126, 147 sqq.
Hansard, Messrs., 411 note
Hardinge, Sir Henrv, 286
Hare, Rev. C. J., 468
Harney, Jacob, 458
Harrowby, Earl of, 143
Hart, Sir A., 107, 111
Harvey, Mr., 493
Hawkins, Dr., 506
Haydon, B. R. : letter, 281
Herodotus, 82 sqq.
Herries, J. C, 103, 115
HiU, Lord, 486

INDEX

531

HOB
Hobhouse, Sir John Cam 205,
381, 437
HoUand, 25, 152
Holland, Lord, 21, 253, 256,
476, 485; letters, 232, 250,
252, 895, 483
HoUand, Lady, 479, 485, 523
HoUiday, Mr., 16, 26
Hooly, Dr. and Mrs., 76
Hope, General, 65
Horton, "V^^ilmot, 376
Howe, Lord, 275, 398
Howick, Lord (2nd Earl Grey),
33 sqq., 38. See Grey
Howick, Lord (now Earl Grey),
246, 381, 454; letter, 423
Howley, Archbishop, 392
Hunt, Leigh, 511 ; letter, 509
Huskisson, "WiUiam, 6, 48, 111,
115, 117 ; letter, 119
Hutchinson, Lord, afterwards
Earl of Donoughmore, 68.
See Donoughmore

Ireland, 99, 105, 112, 146, 166
sqq., 206, 209, 246, 273, 285,
294 sqq., 805, 308, 314, 317
sqq., 372 sqq., 377, 390, 391
415, 521

James, Mrs., 511
Jaubert, General, 19
Jerdan, "WiUiam, 89
Jeremie, Lady, 510
Jourdam, M., 403, 405

Kemble, John M., 410
King, Lord, 28
King, Benjamin, 22, 24, 25
Kingsman, Mr., 28
Kinnaird, Charles, 8th Baron, 7,
16, 22, 23, 27
Knowles, Sheridan, 511

Lake, Lord, 48
Lamb, Augustus, 73, 80
Lamb, Lady Caroline, 71 sqq. ;
letters, 73, 74, 78, 80
Lamb, Emily Mary, afterwai-ds

Lady Cowper and Lady Pal
merston, 2 note
Lamb, Frederick, afterwards.
Baron Beauvale and 3rd Vis
count Melbourne, 2 note, 21,,
80, 342 ; letters, 5
Lamb, George, 2 note, 31 ; letter,
142
Lamb, Harriet Anne, 2 note
Lamb, Matthew, 1
Lamb, SirMatthew,firstbaronet,
1,2
Lamb, Sir Peniston, afterwards
Viscount Melbourne, 2
Lamb, Peniston, 2 note, 31
Lamb, Bishop Robert, 1
Lamb,"WUliam. See Melbourne,
2nd Viscount
Lambe, Matthew, 1
Lambton, Mr. See Durham
Lancashire, 121 sqq.
Langford, Dr., 10
Lansdowne, Lord, 107, 109, 142,
212, 238, 244, 399, 526 ; letters,
103, 105, 110, 112, 114, 154,
195, 199, 519
Lauderdale, Earl of, 5, 6
Leopold, King, 463, 479, 487
Leslie, Charles Robert, 522
Lewis, Matthew G. (' Monk '),
7, 9, 16, 18, 22, 27, 28
Lieven, Madame de, 472
Littleton, Edward John (after
wards Lord Hatherton), 238,
243
Londonderry, Lord, 393
Longley, Dr., 506
Louis Philippe, King, 358, 359,
460, 470, 473, 475, 478, 480
sqq.
Lushington, Dr., 395
Lyndhurst, Lord, 313, 415
Lyttleton, Mr., 39

Macaulay, T. B., 385, 403
Macdonnell, Inspector, 193
Macmahon, Sir "William, 168
McNeiU, John, 453 sqq.
Mant, Bishop, 112
Meath, Lord, 177
Mehemet Ali, 467, 471, 480
Melbourne, 1st Viscount, 2

532

LORD MELBOURNE'S PAPERS

Melboume, 2nd Viscount : letters
to Aberoromby, Mr., 370
Anglesey, Marquess of, 167,
179, 180, 182, 185, 187
sqq., 192, 194
^, Attwood, Mr., 405
-Baines, E., 409
Beauvale, Lord, 408
Bexley, Lord, 162
Brougham, Lord, 116, 117,
257, 258, 263
Bulwer, Sir E. L., 870, 375
Burdett, Su: F., 138
Burgess, Bishop, 301
CampbeU, Sir John, 303
Chalmers, Dr., 288, 289
Derby, Earl of, 121
Drummond, Henry, 128
Dunfermline, Lord, 416
Durham, Earl of, 425, 426,
427, 429
Frampton, J., 156
Grey, Earl, 227, 228, 235,
244, 248, 253, 264, 206,
268
Howley, Abp., 311, 331, 506
Hummelauer, Baron, 340
Kaye, Bishop, 413
Lamb, Su: F., 145, 347 {see
also p. 408)
Littleton, Mr., 196, 198
Melbourne, Lady, 7. 10, 14,
17, 21, 28, 26, 30
Mulgrave, Lord, 278, 280,
284, 293, 313, 316, 318,
320, 322
Northumberland, Duke of,
124, 125
Phillpotts, Bishop, 367, 308
Plunket, Lord, 421
Pusey, Dr., 503
RusseU, Lord John, 208,
370, 378, 879, 883, 384,
380, 387, 389, 390, 894,
399, 406, 407, 411, 413,
415, 417, 432 sqq., 446,
451, 452, 454, 455, 460,
402, 407, 474, 477 sqq.,
485, 491, 493, 510, 512
sqq., 518, 520, 527, 528
Sanctuary, Mr., 126
Stanley, Mr., 170, 173, 175,
176, 188

NEW
Stanley, Bishop, 507
Tavistock, Lord, 98
Taylor, Su- Herbert, 129,
130, 134, 137, 152, 804,
354
Thomson, Poulett, 288, 315,
888, 400, 436, 445
Victoria, Queen, 306
"WeUesley, Marquess, 103,
201
"WeUington, Duke of, 148,
151
"Whately, Archbishop, 806,
496, 497, 505
WiUiam IV., 100, 204, 220,
209, 273, 276, 282, 294,
807, 323, 326, 328, 329,
333, 351, 358, 498
Melboume Hall, 2
MelviUe, Viscount. iSee Dundas
Mendizabal, Seuor, 359
Mercier, Louis Sebastien, 26
Metternich, Prince, 340, 845, 360,
481
MUbank Penitentiary, 102
Milbanke, Elizabeth, afterwards
Lady Melbourne, 2
Millar, Professor, 5 ; his daugh
ters, 6
MiUer, Inspector, 193
MUnes, R. P., 89
Minto, 1st Earl of, 31
Minto, 2nd Earl of, 381, 515 ;
letter, 464
MolevUle, Marquis de, 23, 24
Moore, Sir John, 74
Moore, Dr. Robert, 26
Moore, Judge, 393
Morpeth, Lord (7th Earl of Car
lisle), 379, 381, 485
Morris, John, 523
Mulgrave, Lord, afterwards Mar
quess of Normanby, 294 sqq. ;
letters, 805, 373. See Nor
manby
Murray, Rev. Mr., 522
Murray, Dr., 113

Napier, Colonel, 511
Naples, 12
Navarino, 108
Neumann, Herr, 463, 476
Newport (Monmouthshire), 406

INDEX

63!

NEW

Newport, Sir J., 171, 434
Normanby, Marquess of, 378,
381, 434, 435 ; letters, 391, 406
Norton, Mrs. : letters, 522 sqq.
Nott, General, 520

O'Connell, Daniel, 107 sqq.,
209 sqq., 230, 238, 237, 241,
246, 247, 291 sqq., 310, 877 ;
letter, 372
O'Loghlen, Mr., 314
Osborne, John, 87
Owen, Robert, 409
Oxmantown, Lord, subse
quently 3rd Earl of Rosse, 390

Palmerston, Lord, 81, 268, 888,
385, 460, 403, 471, 479, 481,
498, 516; letters, 107, 140,
337, 419, 453, 456, 458, 462,
475, 487
Pennefather, Baron, 892
Parnell, Sir H., afterwards Lord
Congleton, 28, 167, 168
Parr Dr 22
Peel,' Sn' Robert, 240, 398, 517,
518
Perceval, Spencer, 36
Perier, Casimir, 471
Perrin, Louis, 279
Persia, 452
Petty, Lord Henry (afterwards
Marquess of Lansdowne), 37,
48, 47, 66. See Lansdowne
Puidar, 87
Pitt, WUliam, 8, 24, 68, 320, 442
Place, Francis, 129
Plumridge, Captain, 515
Plunket, W. C, afterwards Lord
Pkmket, 36, 187, 189, 390,420
Ponsonby, Lord, 480, 481, 485
Ponsonby, Mr., 45, 47
Ponsonby, Lady Caroline, 31
Pozzo di Borgo, Count, 353
Pringle, Captain, 510
Radnor, Earl of, 882
Retford, East, 117
Eeynolds, Sir Joshua, 3, 86
Eice, Spring, afterwards Lord
Monteagle, 171, 246, 380, 882,
383, 404, r,V.)

THO
Richardson, Mr., 6
Richmond, Duke of, 442
Roebuck, Mr., 430
Romilly, Sir S., 82, 33, 86, 879
Romney, Earl of, 20
EusseU, Mrs., 8
EusseU, Lord John, 102, 141,
215, 217, 225, 232, 248, 253,
267, 317, 370, 380, 395; let
ters, 243, 254, 518, 526, 527
Russell, Lord WiUiam, 43
Russell, Lord Wriothesley, 464,
469
Russia, 333, 385, 452 eqq.

Scanlan, Mr., 472
Scarlett, James, afterwards Lord
Abinger, 91
Scotland, 6, 288 sqq., 416
Sebastiani, M., 348
Shakespeare, 87, 88
Sheridan, Richard Brinsley, 24
SheU, Richard L., 104, 275, 313
Sidmouth, Lord, 84, 48
Sophocles, 88
Spain, 49 sqq., 351 sqq., 451
Spencer, 3rd Earl, 220 sqq., 282,
234, 241, 244, 258; letters,
394, 401
Spencer, Capta.in, 366
Stafford, Marquess of, 41
Stanhope, Earl, 24, 25
Stanley, Edward G. S., after
wards Lord Stanley and 14th
Earl of Derby, 233, 240, 437 ;
letter, 193
Stanley, Edward John, 440
Stephenson, Mr., 448
Stockdale, Mr., 411 note
Stratford, EmUy, 16
Sussex, Duke of, 382, 518
Sutton, Manners, 242, 245, 248
Sydenham, Lord. See Thomson
Taylor, Sir Herbert : letters, 216,
223, 350, 356 sqq.
Thiers, M., 470, 475, 487 sqq.
Thirlwall, Bishop, 506
Thomson, Poulett, afterwards
Lord Sydenham, 238, 243,
883, 388, 390, 404, 434, 444 ;
letters, 400, 446, 448

534

LORD MELBOURNES PAPERS

Tierney, George, 24, 20, 279
Tillotson, Archbishop, 414
Turkey, 108, 842 sqq., 459
Turton, Mr., afterwards Sir T.,
425 sqq., 437

United States, 60, 458, 515

Victoria, Queen, 365, 897, 422,
518
VUliers, George W. P., after
wards 4th Earl Clarendon,
359. See Clarendon
Vivian, Sir Hussey, 185, 194

Wakefield, Gibbon, 428
Walpole, Horace, 3
Ward, John WiUiam, afterwards
Earl of Dudley, 39, 96. See
Dudley
Wardle, Colonel, 65
Warner, Captain, 515
Wellesley, Lord, 104, 114, 202,
238, 243, 250, 252

YOU
WeUesley, Sir H., afterwards
Lord Cowley, 108
WeUesley, Su A., 57, 66
WeUington, Duke of, 115, 119,
224, 254, 866, 382, 413, 461,
486, 490; letters, 147, 149,
342
Wharncliffe, Lord, 140 sqq.
Whately, Archbishop, 376 ; let
ters, 298, 300, 500
Wilberforce, William, 879
WiUiam IV., 216, 219, 221 sqq.,
246, 209, 278, 317, 353, 356
sqq., 305 ; letters, 158, 191,
221, 222, 224, 283, 286, 297,
308, 327, 349, 302
M'inchUsea, Earl of, 371
Windham, WUham, 45, 379
Wordsworth, William, 510
Wynne, Lady Sarah, 393
Wyse, Thomas, 108

York, Duke of, 05
Yorke, Mr., 45
Young, Mr., 24
Young, Thomas, 203, 522

rillXTED BY
BroTTiawooDE .^sd co., ?;E\v-s'j'iiEE'r squake
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